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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you alive from the heart of Manhattan and Rockefeller Center, New Stan Studios. Joined as usual with uh John behind me. How you doing? Doing great, thanks.
+
+[0:21] Yeah, everything good? Yeah, everything's great. Oh, nice. Got uh Joe Hazen rocking the panels. What's up?
+
+[0:25] Hey man, how are you doing? Doing all right, I guess. It's fine. You look good. Huh?
+
+[0:29] Sweaty. You like that? You like that sweaty look? All right. Uh I think on telephone, we've got uh Nastasi the Hammer Lopez.
+
+[0:36] How you doing, Staz? Good. Yeah? Yeah, nice. Uh how's uh how's the great state of Connecticut?
+
+[0:44] Fine. Great, uh what is it? Best small state best state, isn't that the motto? It's not really nutmeg, no one says that. Like on all if you go to a bookstore in Connecticut and they have a section on Connecticut, which they should, otherwise, why are you shopping there?
+
+[0:56] Right? It says small state best state. You know what I'm talking about, John? No. Oh, come on, dudes.
+
+[1:01] Thought you were my thought you were my Connecticut man behind. I love Connecticut, but I've never heard that. We got uh Quinn up there in uh Vancouver Island. Yep. Nice nice.
+
+[1:11] And do we have uh uh Mr. Molecules back? Yes, sir, I'm here. Jack, how you doing? I'm good.
+
+[1:18] I'm good. Yeah? All right. A little depressed, uh depressed overhearing your pre-show chat, but uh yeah. Oh, we were talking before the air with uh and as as uh you know as we do now, we'll introduce our special uh guest today is Mark Forgion, Fino, well-known uh chef of zillions of restaurants, a new hospitality group he's gonna be talking about.
+
+[1:38] Uh was the youngest iron chef, I think. Was that right? Is that does that still have meaning? Youngest iron chef? I mean, I guess I'm definitely not the youngest anymore, but I was 13 years ago.
+
+[1:49] Yeah, and if if you it turns out if you don't die, you're not the youngest of anything anymore. You know what I mean? Which is good. You don't want to be, you know, you want to uh stay alive. All right.
+
+[1:56] So uh so we were talking about before uh we were on the air is that uh you know how robots are gonna take over everything, and it's only gonna be like the small group of people who actually care, right? In other words, there's okay. Do you use the term shoemaker in terms of like a chef who doesn't really care, just showing up clocking their clocking their their job and getting out, but doesn't really have a passion for it. They're not bad with that. I call those nine to fivers.
+
+[2:22] Nine to fivers. So we used to at the at the FCI, the term everyone used to use is shoemaker, they're shoemaker, which is freaking weird because you know what? Making shoes, not it's a craft. It's a cra it's a freaking great craft. I mean, like a person who's good at making shoes, like that's the thing.
+
+[2:35] I don't know why we're insulting shoemakers, but it's like shoemaker. But in other words, like there's not gonna be that much room, you know, 20 years from now for the shoemaker. You know what I mean? Yeah, or the or the nine to fiver. I don't think we have a long enough uh session to go to get into all that, but you know, as we were saying before, it's it's just a little scary, but yeah, you know, that's why uh you know, I try to give advice to people all the time, like just you know, instead of joining, like try to try to carve your own path.
+
+[2:59] Right. Well, is it that we're all gonna be, in other words, like are we all gonna end up like wally where we're in like massage chairs all the time hooked up to like a virtual nightmare? Like with like stuff being pumped into us, or in which case we don't need to make money because it's all virtual, it doesn't matter. Or, right, are we gonna are we gonna all become rich because we can produce so much, or are we all gonna become poor because no one needs us anymore? Who knows?
+
+[3:20] Hey, so we weren't supposed to talk about that on air, but that's what we were talking about beforehand, and Jack was like, uh depressing. Is that pretty accurate, Jack? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. All right.
+
+[3:32] Uh all right. So uh now's the time on the show where we uh shoot the breeze over uh any interesting uh food experiences or whatnot that we've had over the past week. And for Jack, two weeks because you wouldn't hear anyone got anything uh anyone got anything good? Uh nothing on my end. Yeah, two weeks you haven't eaten one good thing.
+
+[3:53] You haven't made one good thing, you haven't eaten one good thing. No, no. So yeah, so uh well, I don't know. So Mark here, who you know is has like what now? How many restaurants you work in?
+
+[4:08] You're opening another one, reopening another one right now. He has an interesting food story related to the restaurant or unrelated to the restaurant. A little bit of both. All right, what do you got? What do you got?
+
+[4:17] Um, so um, you know, my family from from Italy, the uh the Italian side, we're from the the south, you know, a little just above the boot. Um and the way that we do ragu, I don't know if anybody on here is Italian, but um we do we do like a Sunday Sunday sauce. Um but one of the the kind of interesting things about the southern style is that you take the meat out of the sauce and you kind of keep it warm somewhere else. And you know, I had everything from um, you know, we had a a tongue in there, you know, beef shank, um, you know, pork copa, um, a whole bunch of different things. Like basically what everybody in the pot.
+
+[4:54] But then the cool part about it is you puree all the vegetables and the sauce and the fat, which is the best part because it emulsifies, and then you put that on pasta before you eat the meat. And every time I introduce this to somebody, they're like, you know, the it blows their mind that that you can like, you know, take something like this simple, and then after you eat this bowl of pasta, then you eat all the breezed meat with like salsa verde and pickled peppers and and um we're gonna initiate that at um at one fifth in a couple of weeks. So I figured I'd practice at home on Sunday. Oh, that's real that's that's super old school. Like that's uh is they do that in Italy because that's the way my stepfather's family always did it in Boston like the Boston Italians like that was the way.
+
+[5:36] But for you know there we were always it was always the same. It was always uh sausage with the fennel, pork chop, brajole meatballs. You know what I mean? Like we didn't have all the other fancy stuff in it like you know it's funny the stuff I just mentioned is the peasant stuff. What what do you say, Quinn?
+
+[5:55] That's where my family does it too. Oh yeah that my grandparents are from uh Calabria. Yep, Southern yeah and they call it gravy, not freaking sauce in Boston, right? And it's macaroni and gravy with and then the meat come out comes out separately. But there's something really nice about stodging it in not mean you know in in stages because it implies an arc to a dinner that is kind of there that just belongs.
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+[6:24] You know what I mean? But how does it in a restaurant is that work in a restaurant setting to I guess it does if they're gonna be forced to have a tasting anyway. Or if they're doing it family style. Like what's what's the presentation going to be what do you think is going to work? We're about to find out we haven't done it before or yet um but the idea is you know we're gonna charge like a a prefix but you know in included in that prefix it'd be a Sunday night thing you know um you know you get the the two courses so you're not just like buying the Sunday gravy like on a and you get an individual bowl.
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+[6:56] Like the idea will be like you know say it's four people you guys all order the Sunday sauce, and then everybody'll get their pasta first, and then we'll just put all the meat in a giant pot in the middle, and then everybody can kind of just pick at it and have fun. And you're kind of trying to bring like the Sunday sauce that in Boston that you you used to have, you know, into a restaurant setting. Yeah. Yeah. I kinda yeah, I haven't had that style in years because they're all dead.
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+[7:22] Yeah. Like everyone, everyone that I used that used to make that uh for me in Boston is dead. So it's uh yeah, so it's like uh it's weird. It would be it would be interesting to have it again. Like I I've had that happen a couple of times.
+
+[7:34] So my stepfather's father who in Boston, he was a butcher, and his specialty was uh lamb. And so when I was a kid, he would get the baby lamb, you know, the unweaned like lamb. Uh, because he used to slaughter all of his own lamb. And that's why he got out of the business, actually. He's like, they're not gonna let me slaughter anymore in the city, so F it, I'm out.
+
+[7:54] You know what I mean? And uh I remember the first time someone served me baby lamb at a restaurant, and I almost cried. I was like, oh my god, baby lamb. I know that people probably are horrified, baby lamb it's delicious. Of course, at Easter time?
+
+[8:06] I cooked one last Easter. Really? Are you gonna do one this year or no? No, my my in-laws don't like lamb. Oh.
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+[8:11] What about goat? They don't like goat, that's for sure. So they I got them a tenderloin and I ordered a little bit of lamb for me. Yeah. But I mean, it doesn't take that many.
+
+[8:20] I mean, baby lamb weighs what? Like I remember once I got one for him when he was like in his 90s, and I told him to wait, and I forget what it was. It was like 14, 15. Yeah, I was about to say probably 15 pounds. He's like, Oh, that's real.
+
+[8:31] That's not the garbage one. I was like, Yeah, dude. I mean, I'm not gonna buy you garbage. You're 90. This is your last time, maybe you're gonna ever have it.
+
+[8:38] You know what I mean? So, like, anyway. Uh old school, delicious. Um, all right, what about you, Stas? You got any food, any food stuff going on?
+
+[8:47] No. No. All right. What about you, Quinn? Quinn?
+
+[8:49] You always have a good uh some sort of good food taster that you've been working on. Uh actually, I I I didn't do much, but something that I found out at the grocery store that was very unusual. Fresh fenugreek. Huh. With just at the supermarket.
+
+[9:06] So I made like a you know, basic sort of pesto, get a pasta with like a little sh uh barona on top. It's pretty good. The leaves or the seeds. The leaves. Oh, yeah.
+
+[9:17] Yeah, like I'm pretty sure. Yeah, I only have the seeds. You know, I think I've said it before, fenugreek is that spice that I really like, and I never cook with it. Me neither. I have it, but like whenever I smell it, I'm like, oh, fenigree, yeah.
+
+[9:29] Like it's like, oh, you know, it's got that mapley smell from Sotalone. And I'm like, ooh, yeah. And then I I I have it at home, but I never like eh. It's got dust in the in the in the spice cabinet, probably. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[9:39] Well, I mean, yeah, I have my stuff well sealed. Mark, I'm telling my stuff well sealed. But, you know, in fact, I just went through, so like uh my uh I don't know if I talked about this. My wife, here's a here's a food thing I haven't talked about. My uh I have like at any one time, you know, a couple hundred pounds of grain in the house and beans, you know, all the stuff.
+
+[9:58] Beans, grains, rice, all that crap. A couple hundred pounds. And uh it was in bags. You know what I mean? Because I don't have like a garage, so I can't like put things into like five gallon drums and store them somewhere.
+
+[10:11] And so they were in bag and they were rolling around and like I'm I'm always petrified because it's happened, it's happen I've never had it spread through my entire pantry, but I've had bugs come in on stuff and then get into like one bag, but I've never had a transfer. And the bags were flopping all over the place, and so you're looking for a particular thing. So I bought all half gallon mason jars and I uh a thing that hooks my vacuum sealer up to the mason jar thing and a vacuum like uh my entire kitchen now is just like perfect mason jars labeled with all the stuff in it, and it takes um I forget how many pounds fit in each mason jar. It's like three or something like two, three pounds of uh three pounds of uh, you know, wheat fitting in, and so that's uh it's it's perfect now. Yeah, my wife would get literally get turned on by that.
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+[10:59] Yeah, it's amazing. Well, my wife was like, I went from hating the kitchen. She also made me take all the liquor, which was all like kind of in the open place and put it back in the pantry where all these bags used to be. She's like, I don't want to see all these like half empty liquor bottles around. I'm like, all right, I don't care.
+
+[11:12] Drink them. Yeah. But anyway, so that's something, you know. Um, oh, here's something else. So uh I had to buy cake flour because my birthday last week.
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+[11:22] And uh, so my son Booker, he likes to make the milk bar, you know, cake, which everybody loves that thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know, he likes to make it so like the the way it's made, if in case, you know, I don't know, you live under a rock, you've never seen this cake, is she bakes a sheet cake, then like a thin sheet cake, like on a on a like a sheet pan, right? Not like a thick sheet cake, and then cuts out discs, and then chums up one because there's not enough left over because she doesn't want to waste anything, and then puts the icing and then makes cake crumbles and smashes it all together inside of an acetate ring, inside of a cake ring, and then sets it in the freezer overnight, pulls it out, and there you go, six inch cake, 60 bucks. Whatever it is.
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+[11:57] You know what I mean? So, like there it is. So he he makes it, and of course, totals totals the kitchen, obliterates the kitchen. Like I could have made the cake a thousand times faster than it took to clean the kitchen after he was done with it because I don't know, whatever. He's autistic, whatever, it doesn't matter.
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+[12:14] But he makes the cake. But he he makes me buy cake flour because of course he's not gonna shell out of his own pock. He's not gonna reach into his own pocket, even though he's 21 to buy his dad cake flour. Of course not. No.
+
+[12:25] So I go and I buy the swans down cake flour, which I buy, and for the first time ever I read the side of it. You know what it says on the side of it? Big lie. This is my thing. They say that it's 27 times times finer than AP flour.
+
+[12:40] That's garbage. That's just a load of horse hockey. That's just garbage. That's just not possible. You'd have to ask my pastry chef for that one.
+
+[12:47] Well, so like I didn't have time this morning because I just discovered this, like, you know, pretty recently. I was gonna do it. I I have a microscope at home. I'm just gonna freaking do it. I'm gonna look at it.
+
+[12:56] And, you know, I'm not one of these like, you know, I'm not gonna be like, we need a class action lawsuit. I need my three dollars back. You know what I mean? But like, come on, man. We should find a s Sieve that is 27 times finer than the next one, and then dump the flowers into him side by side and see what see what comes through.
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+[13:15] Well, so they claim it's like, you know, three times smaller on a side, but then you know what uh someone on my Twitter put it in and was like, hey, they measured this back in 1933, and I don't think they've updated their copy. You know what I mean? So it's like maybe it was true in 1933, but it's just not true. And also, who gives a crap? Yeah, right?
+
+[13:33] I mean How's the cake come up? Good. There you go. Yeah, and I have to say, you know, she does that cake crumble, like which is like, you know, like a like a scruzzle top, but like, you know, with with uh what's it called? Uh what are those things?
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+[13:45] Sprinkles. And uh confetti. Yeah, yeah. And uh he overdid it and they went brown better. Interesting.
+
+[13:52] Yeah, it gets took on that. Sometimes mistakes turn into the best ideas. Yeah, took on that brown uh that brown butter stuff, you know. Anyway. Uh what about what about you, John?
+
+[14:01] Anything anything in your restaurant world? No. Yeah, you fixed all the leaks in your ceiling. Finally, yeah. You don't have a watertight kitchen.
+
+[14:10] Yeah. Well, aren't you feeling it? So at least we'll see until it happens again. Where was the leak? Like, what was it leaking on to?
+
+[14:14] Because to me, that's always the most fun. And what was the source of the leak? Was it rainwater? No. Oh no.
+
+[14:24] It was over every inch of dish pit. So get anything clean. No, man. Shut everything down. It was.
+
+[14:31] Yeah, it was a lot of fun. Great. New York. New York. Yeah, I mean, like, you know, it's like uh you're always dealing with some other jerks thing here in this city.
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+[14:42] You know what I mean? Like just age. I mean, everything in New York is old. Yeah. You know what I mean?
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+[14:47] But even dealing with the vendors every week, like my linen company's been shorting me, and it's just like I think they do that on purpose. Yeah. I mean asked. Is it would it be cheaper to just I know that I don't know anyone that does it. Would it be cheaper just to get like a home washer dryer?
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+[15:03] No? Not anymore. You had to pay somebody $20 an hour to do it. And used to be. Yeah.
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+[15:11] I don't know. I feel like linen's is one of those things where we had a guy, I don't even know his name. We just called him Mopy. Because he was always so mopey. And then he would show up, but he would always get the billing wrong.
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+[15:22] So we wouldn't pay for like three months. We wouldn't know what's happening. All of a sudden we would get three months of bills, and then we're like, what the hell's happening here? And I was a linen's always a nightmare. You know?
+
+[15:32] How harsh are you with your cooks on the number of towels they use? Uh I hate to say I used to be, but I'm not anymore, but I used to be and I'm not anymore. Yeah? Yeah. Well how I don't even remember.
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+[15:42] How much is it? How much does it cost to have one of those things uh swapped out? I uh I hate to admit it. Uh uh, you know, I haven't looked at a a linen bill since I stopped like day to day on my own. It's all the same.
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+[15:54] You know what I mean? Like, and at the end of the day, it's like you you could shop at the 10 different companies. They're all you know. Yeah, I feel like there's like it's just like five like we'll call it ten years ago, you know, like I would say you know, each cook got five towels. Five towels a shift.
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+[16:08] That was it. Couldn't get any more. Don't you know, don't mess it up. Now it's just you know, they're everywhere. Twenty-three cents a kitchen towel is one of the quotes I have in my email.
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+[16:19] What is that? 23 cents a table. Twenty three cents. 23 cents. Yeah.
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+[16:23] I don't know. I don't know. The whole thing's uh I don't know. In France you get one. What the hell are you gonna do with one?
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+[16:28] I swear to God, you get one towel. It's a big towel, but you get one. You get one towel and complimentary food poison. Yeah, you keep it keep it. You keep it tied to your uh to your apron.
+
+[16:38] Yeah, well, are you are you make everyone do the old school so that they can read for the paper? No, I don't. I tried it when I got back from France, and like there's a lot of things that in Europe that don't work in America, trust me. Yeah, I'm sure. Like, you know, like uh I remember well in your own butchering.
+
+[16:53] Nope. Well, so you uh, you know, you said that like uh I guess you went to France, you had already been when you did your your stages in France, you'd already been a sous chef here, right? You'd already started working for Laurent Torandell, but then Yeah, I I felt like I I got a little too promoted too early for where I was, and I was I was young. Um I think I was you know, I was like I was like, you know, one of those guys where you know I was the first one in, last one out. I'm not like bragging, I'm just painting a picture.
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+[17:23] I think when chefs see that, you know, they're they're eager to keep them around. So, you know, like ah, maybe make him the AM sous chef. And like, you know, once you become a sous-chef, you can't like go back. It's like you're the next place you go, you're the sous chef again. You know what I mean?
+
+[17:36] And I just I kind of wanted to like, I don't know, learn a little more, or you know what I mean? I just felt like, and I also too, like, here being Larry Fo Jun's son, it was like, especially in New York, like it was just, you know, some chefs. It was like I never had a moment where I wasn't Larry Fo Jun's kid, like every day. You know what I mean? It was just no matter what.
+
+[17:58] That's probably good and bad. It's good and bad. If you did, I was just about to say, if you did something good, they'd be like, ah, your father must have shot you that. If you did something bad, like, oh, what'd your dad tell you that? Like, you know what I mean?
+
+[18:06] It was just like it never stopped. Still, still not really to this day, but I'm okay with it now. Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, it's been a long, long time. Yeah, but you add in like all those factors, and I was like, you know, I just I want to go somewhere where, you know, they don't care if I was a sous chef at my last job, they don't care that I'm Larry Fo Jones' kid, da da da. So also there it's more of a culture of like family lines of of chefs, right?
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+[18:28] So it's not like Yeah, it's not a you know, a big deal there. You can come from a line of well-known chefs and still have to stand on your own there. Yes. Well, it's funny, speaking of my dad. My my my father worked at um the Connaud Hotel, and believe it or not, his comey was um one of the Toigros sons.
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+[18:51] No, come on. And my dad says that this kid, it was it was Claude, who's now like the biggest chef in Brazil. But he said that Claude, the the amount of um, you know, the shit, sorry, S H I T that he had to deal with was like it made my dad feel bad. Like he was like, look, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna push it. Like no matter what Claude did, it was just like, you know, ah, the son of famous Tois Group.
+
+[19:17] So, like, you know, um, you know, they get it too there. But but again, I just wanted to go somewhere to like I hate to say start from scratch, but like, you know, I just wanted to like go and like get my butt kicked. Well, you didn't even speak the language. I didn't. Um, took like four or five months to get the language.
+
+[19:33] Um, and again, just to paint a picture, there you know, there was no TV, I didn't have a laptop. This was before phones, iPhones. Um, if I wanted to call my family, I went to the payphone in town. Um, so it was literally just like total immersion of the good news is you don't have to call your family that often. People don't think about this, they're like, Oh, you couldn't call your family.
+
+[19:54] And like the good news is you didn't have to call your family that often. I mean, yeah, man. I mean, it was it was total isolation, um, especially for the first three or four months. Um and so this was uh Michel Garard's place, right? Or however you're supposed to pronounce it, enfoncé.
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+[20:07] Hey, again, John, Francophile. Michel Gerard. There you go. That's perfect. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[20:12] That's why that's that's the reason he's always here. Is in case we have a French word, you can just bust it out. Uh you know, it's three-star Michelin. It was in the middle, uh absolute middle of nowhere. You know, again, I wanted to do the antithesis of New York, and it was an hour drive in any direction, and you didn't hit another city.
+
+[20:28] I mean, it was nothing there. Like people who ate there stayed at the the hotel, which is also a five-star world-renowned spa. Um, and you know, it was it was exactly what I I think I needed and wanted, and then you know, I don't think I'd be sitting across from you right now if I hadn't taken that year and a half. Was he still doing uh I guess I mean uh at what point was cuisine mansour at that point, or however it's pronounced? Uh so when you stay there, again, there's there's no choices, like you can't eat anywhere else.
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+[20:58] So when you stay there, there's three different restaurants to eat at. There's the the cuisine gourmand, which is like the three star. Then there was cuisine mention, which was like the we'll call it the spa cuisine, and then there was this restaurant which really kind of struck me the most was the La Fermogrieve, which was very similar to peasant, which I know we'll get into. Um, you know, you walked into this restaurant and it was very like rustic and French and farm. There was a pig always roasting on the rotisserie, and um, you know, everybody started their meal with a mason jar of foie graterine and you know, homemade crusty bread.
+
+[21:35] Like it was so not the same as the spa, was he? No, no. But it like you have to see it to believe it, but like it it actually looks like peasant, which you know, kind of full circle in life. You know, sometimes universe works that way. But is that where you spent most of your time in in the in the that one?
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+[21:52] No, I uh I never really got to work there. I used to I used to ask if I could hang out in there like on my day off or days off or whatever. Um, but I never got to fully work there. I I did mention first and then gourmand, and um I I really hit it off with the the Poissonnier at in Logala Gourmand. So like I just basically was his call me essentially the whole time.
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+[22:17] So how did it work if you were there and staying there? Did everyone like try to have the spa thing, which he's famous for, by the way. I mean, famous for this. Yeah, yeah. Then then the next day they go to the get the four grand pig, right?
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+[22:27] I mean, like I don't know. I I didn't follow the guests around. I don't even think I ever saw the guest, to be honest with you. Um I don't I don't know exactly how that all kind of worked out, but yeah, he's still kicking, right? He's like 90 years old.
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+[22:39] I mean, when I was there, he was in his 70s and he worked if he wasn't traveling, he worked every service at La Gourmand. He's like this tall too. Uh huh. Wait, we started out at like six foot one and then just keeps getting shorter every year, is what happened? He's he was a little guy, but I'm telling you to this day, I've never been in a room where everyone, you know, stands at attention when he walked in.
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+[23:01] I mean, everyone. Didn't matter who you were, didn't matter what position you were. Like he walked in and you know, he would walk through and taste your stuff. I mean, the the intensity every day at at 5 30 or 6 o'clock, I can't remember. And it was every day.
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+[23:16] You know, tasted the sauce, you looked at your mise en plus. I mean, it was wild. All right. So let's uh do our little bookkeeping here. So if you have any questions for marketing listening live on Patreon, call in to 917-410-1507.
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+[23:27] That's 917-410-1507. And uh, how do they join the Patreon there, John? Patreon.com slash cooking issues. We've got a bunch of different membership levels. You get cool things at every level.
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+[23:38] You can get the video feed at all levels, you get a uh discount to books at Kitchen Arts and Letters, you know, from guests that we have on that have books that can be sold. Um yeah, prioritize questions getting answered, access to the Discord and all these really great things. So you should join uh Patreon.com slash cooking issues. And if I can make a quick plug, Dave of the Playboy. Plugity plug, plug it, plug ity, plug ity.
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+[24:00] Uh, one of my friends, uh, for those of you who are in New York City is organizing a sort of leadership event with uh Ari Weinswig from uh my god, what's the Zingerman's in uh in Ann Arbor, Michigan? It's gonna be a really great event. I am trying my best to go. It's gonna be at Alcoro, so there should be some great food too. Um reach out to me on Instagram.
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+[24:21] Just trying, not gonna make it, just trying. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's a it's hard to take time off. It's true. Feel really guilty whenever I do, but whatever, that's a separate issue.
+
+[24:28] All right. Um, but yeah, reach out to me on Instagram, Nee Hole J. Yeah, thank you. Yep. Uh all right.
+
+[24:36] So you mentioned your dad. For those of you, I don't know, that don't know, uh, your dad's Larry Forgeon, who's like in the So I've said this a lot to people who have asked me, which isn't that much actually. So I haven't said it a lot because no one asked me. But it's like I think that there was in America a huge kind of shift in the 90s where into the early 2000s where people really started focusing on American food as American food and like as like a real important cuisine and we had our own voice as opposed to just mimicking what's going on in France or looking at what's going on in France. And then I had to remember when you were coming on looking as I was like, oh my God, but l your dad was doing this since the eighties.
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+[25:25] You know what I mean? Like American Place opens in 83. Yeah. So he's like way early in the whole like America's a real place for food. Yeah, there's movement.
+
+[25:36] There's a picture that I have hanging in in Forge where you know he's wearing the token, the whole thing. But uh it's 1979, standing outside the River Cafe with American asparagus, morels, artichokes, like all in a basket. Um and that had never been done on the East Coast up until that point. And that's in the 70s, if you were thinking about it. Right, and he was cooking.
+
+[26:00] He was cooking with country ham, putting with eggs, like American, not just American ingredients, but also like some American American flavors, American ideas. It started as French cuisine with American ingredients, and then it kind of evolved into a lot of history reading books, and then it turned into, you know, him uh taking dishes from the eighteen hundreds or you know, the early nineteen hundreds of American dishes, you know. Right. So I don't I mean this is an aspect of American kind of restaurant culture that I I just don't feel gets enough play in where we became our own culinary force and really what you know like uh he's do he's doing he's doing that very early in it so I like I think this is uh well John you're as you're a student of uh history we I can used to worked at MoFAD do you think people like think about this kind of switch in American restaurant culture enough or no? No I wish they did.
+
+[26:58] Not anymore. I think I I think in 1990, right, if you had asked chefs, American young cooks, chefs, you know, they would kind of understand who and what was happening this like revolution. But now you know I agree like 2023 if you asked you know somebody like who are the most important American chefs of all time and I'm not making fun of these people I'm just saying this is who they'd probably say you know uh Bobby Flay uh you know Guy Fieri and uh you know where I'm going with this like it's just you know that the you know the the kind of the forefathers or the Mount Rushmore you know of the Alice Waters the Larry Four Jones the you know Dean Farring Paul Perdome like you know all the all the Bradley Ogden all these guys you know um sad to say but like anything they're just kind of getting you know washed away aged out or washed out or none of those people that I just named are ever on TV. Right. Well you know I this what's so because restaurant cooking is so youth oriented, uh, or can be youth oriented.
+
+[28:09] I feel like, and this bar is probably even worse, is that there is a lack of knowledge. So I remember I remember like, you know, all of my buddies in the early 2000s, they were like, none of these cooks know who none of my cooks know who, like, you know, you know, name name a name a French, you know, name a famous French. Yeah, yeah. All these guys, yeah, yeah. I mean, Robochon was still working here in New York, so they kind of knew because they're like, Yeah, I'll tell you, yeah, but like you know what I mean, but they they didn't know kind of the history that to the people who are even my age, right?
+
+[28:41] Like the Changs, the Wileys, like those guys, like them, that was still real history, but to the people who were 10 years younger than them, it was kind of gone. Yep. And so I had why I did a guest thing with Wiley. He did a uh this playing with fire series that we do at at Peasant. Uh half of my cooks didn't know who Wiley was.
+
+[29:01] I mean, I couldn't believe it. How do you not know who Wiley Defrayne is? The the institutional the institutional memory, and it's like so people who aren't on TV or don't have like uh, you know, the books or the you know it's just bizarre. Yep. And like uh it's very easy to trace histories, right?
+
+[29:22] If you take the time. But I just don't I feel like uh I don't know, maybe people just don't care about the history anymore. Yeah. I don't know. I w we did it um we haven't done it in a while, but we used to do these um like every week or maybe every month, you know, we'd we'd like pick one of those chefs, you know, and like we'd talk about them, whether it was not every day, but you know, maybe at like three or four different pre-shifts where we would just bring up, you know, uh a little history lesson that you could do in ten minutes.
+
+[29:52] I mean, it wasn't like, you know, we gave them a test or anything, but it was more just to like acknowledge because you know that's where I came from, that's where I grew up in. Yeah. And I and I know that I'm kind of lucky in that sense. So it's easy for me to say like, oh that nobody pays attention. Like I literally grew up with those people.
+
+[30:06] I mean going to the Brockfell Center event, it was all those people that I just named at the City of Meals on Wheels. Um so you know they're all very familiar to me and I have so much respect for it and so much respect for how hard they had to work and how hard they had to work to source those ingredients. I mean it it it it you you try to explain it I even to me I mean they used to have to have a car that would drive to the airport two or three times a day to pick up ingredients because it wasn't like now where I get you know from Tivoli mushroom company I'm not making fun of it. It's like but now it's I just press whatever I want into a phone and I have my mushrooms there the next day sourcing this guy were on the phones with a guy named you know Justin that was going out into the woods and picking whatever he could and then driving that to the airport and then the chefs would drive in the c I mean Yeah yeah different and still doing 150 covers a day. Yeah.
+
+[31:05] Yeah. Like try to wrap your head around that. It's like I think you know now that now that I'm thinking about it, talking about it, I think maybe one of the reasons uh I mean I back in the in the 2000s this wasn't the reason that people weren't paying attention to the history. I think that was just different because they were focused on like all the stuff that was coming out on YouTube. But there's also the phenomenon where I think because so many different people aren't represented in kind of the canonical history that they just want to be like, uh I'm not part of that, so I don't really want to learn it.
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+[31:36] And I think that that's valid, but I think, you know, eventually when more people are part of the history, maybe people will want history again you know what I mean? I again I hate to sound like old man River here, but like I don't know about you, but like, you know, I used to come home from work and I would like read a cookbook. Yeah. Yeah. I you know what I mean.
+
+[31:56] Like now, never mind when they get home from work, that they're on the subway already on YouTube watching uh they don't know, somebody ride a donkey into the ocean off a cliff and do a backflip. You know what I mean? Because it got a million likes. You know what I mean? Like that video exists because that's what I'm gonna do right after.
+
+[32:14] But you know what I mean? Like it's just I love donkeys, it's just different, you know. Like, you know, I used to go to whatever name was Bonnie Slotnik's bookstore on my day on. You know what? We only went, John and I, for the first time only like three years ago went after so embarrassed.
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+[32:28] Three months. Yeah, but I used to I used to sit at Barnes and Noble on the floor for three, four hours. I couldn't afford to buy a book. Listen, I think it's good and bad because uh I think it's I think it's good and bad. The the people it was so hard to get information.
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+[32:43] It was so hard. Information was like gold. Like, even up until the 2000s, right? You could not get the information. So like I wanted to learn how to run a rotary evaporator.
+
+[32:54] There was nothing. There was no websites, there was no nothing. Nothing, right? So you called Wiley. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[33:00] Well, well, I taught no, I I I was the guy that brought anyway, so like, but like, you know, so we're working on stuff, and now that information is available in a way that allows people to grow so much faster. I think that's a 100% great. But the downside is that um a lot of the individual voice has been lost. So the miracle of of cookbooks back in the day was you could get lost in somebody's mind, you know. And uh I think that there's a kind of like that kind of understand human to human understanding that's transferred through a cookbook or long format thing or an album.
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+[33:38] You know what I mean? Is like m not as prevalent. So I think that like for every gain there's a loss. I don't think ever I don't think anything's a hundred percent gain or a hundred percent loss. You know what I mean?
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+[33:49] Agreed. Uh you just reminded me like I'm um of those days, and like I remember I stumbled across the the Zuni Cafe cookbook and um, you know, talk about getting lost. Like, you know, I was on the like, you know, I'd bring it to the beach and like read it as if it was, you know, like a a novel. And then I remember the first time I went to San Francisco, and you know what I mean? I would I couldn't have been more excited to go to go see this restaurant.
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+[34:14] It makes it like, you know, but that was before I couldn't just Google what what does Zuni Cafe, you know, videos and like it's like it was like a pilgrimage just because I had found this book and like fell in love with what I was reading and her voice. How was how was the meal? Amazing. Yeah. My oysters, the Caesar salad, the chicken, you know what I mean?
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+[34:34] Like everything you're supposed to eat at at Zuni and I was by myself and oh you like you like solo dining? I was meeting I don't remember what I was doing there. I was meeting maybe it was my dad, I don't know. I was meeting somebody in Northern California, so I went a couple days earlier specifically to to go to Zuni Cafe. I was probably like 20 years old or something like that.
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+[34:59] Yeah, I don't know. But the staff staff like sat with me because I was by myself. It was just like a magical magical night. Do you uh do you automatically VIP solo diners? I always if if if I'm there and I see a solo diner, I will 99% of the time go over and strike up a conversation.
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+[35:17] And you can usually get the vibe right away if they want to talk to you or if they don't. Um but you know, I usually bring them like a little amuse boost, just and then just hey, how's it going? It's funny. Sometimes when people uh have somebody coming to meet them, they'll they'll tell you that right away. So that you know so that you know that they know that they're not by themselves.
+
+[35:37] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I Well, I'm just waiting for my wife. Uh it's it's all good, man. I was just coming over to say hello. Yeah, like you know, my my idea of solo dining is like inserting like uh five 50 cent hot dogs into my face on the run down the street.
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+[35:50] You know what I mean? Like I love sitting by myself at the bar. Yeah, I do. I love it. I I'm not good at it.
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+[35:58] You know what I mean? Like, I uh I'm well known for consuming everything very quickly. So yeah, very quickly. So, like, you know, this you know Nastasia's had many how many meals have I ruined of yours, Nastasia? So many, which is weird that you don't like dining by yourself because you think that you don't care whether people are there with you or not when you do have people there.
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+[36:24] That's not true. It's just uh I eat so much faster when I'm alone than even when I'm with people. It's a it's it's uh so like and the same thing goes at a bar. So like someone puts a drink down, I don't have anyone to talk to, boom, boom. Yeah, you know what I mean?
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+[36:38] And then and then what? I'm gonna sit. Oh, what am I gonna? I'm either gonna get shellacked or I have to sit there and wait. One way, staring?
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+[36:46] Like this, staring. I mean, you could talk to somebody. No, who am I gonna talk to? I mean, so it sounds like you're pretty good at talking. Well, not that like when look, uh you have a radio chat.
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+[36:57] Yeah, yeah, but like I I could talk to people who like here, you're coming here, and it's like, oh, he wants to talk to us because he's coming, so therefore we can talk. But like at a bar, this person is sitting next to me. I don't know them from a hot rock. Why are they gonna want to talk to me for? You know what I mean?
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+[37:12] Anyway, it's always nice though when you do need somebody that that wants to talk. So it's like it's like a revelation, especially now. What do you think about people reading books at the bar? We used to have a couple people that would come in and read books. I used to do that, yeah.
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+[37:24] But my day off, I'd I'd sit at the sit at a restaurant and at the bar with a book. Yeah. I find it hard, like part of my kind of mental thing, I find it hard to concentrate on first of all, I'm only ever reading boring technical stuff, so it requires a lot of concentration. And secondly, uh I it's hard to concentrate when the people next to you are having conversations that I can hear because it intrudes into my brain. It's like it's like somebody putting a small ice pick into my head and erasing so then I'll have to read the same line a thousand times in a row.
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+[38:01] You know what I mean? That's the you read it, you read when you go out solo styles. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[38:08] You know what I don't like? I don't like the I don't like the solo the solo phone stare. Oh, when they're just doing it just to do it? Yeah. Oh, I had it.
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+[38:16] Well, when they're just sitting there on the phone the whole time because it the light is bad. My issue with it is that they don't look good. You know what I mean? And so like they throw that blue light. I had this idea.
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+[38:26] So nowadays, you know how your phone now at night, like it turns kind of yellowish, so that it's got the you I don't know whether yours does, but our phone, like at 8 p.m., they it puts like a yellowish tinge on the screen. Oh. Yeah. So people don't look as like blue and dead at a bar, right? But like my idea was what if you had a phone that was like um make me look good while I'm texting, and it it had like motion, like yellow, kind of like like a little bit of like a flame background, so that you had that like candlelight instead of this like death pallor, you had like this kind of candlelight vibe on your I I smell an app.
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+[39:02] I smell an app. Yeah. I think it's a good idea. By the way, as we're talking about books, I just realized I I feel like I I have to give a shout out. Um, because I'm reading a book now that I'm I I haven't enjoyed reading a book this much in a in a while.
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+[39:14] Is um uh Peter Hoffman's you just put out uh it's called 13 Ingredients. Yeah, Peter from Savoy? Oh yeah, yeah. What what are the 13 ingredients? I mean I can't name them off the top of my head.
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+[39:27] What are some of them? I j I just finished reading about leeks. Uh-huh. Another one was garlic. Uh he he's like he tells his story through 13 ingredients.
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+[39:35] And it it it it's I'm telling you, it's a great read. I don't cook with leaks even though I love them because I hate cleaning them. Yeah. Well he kind of says that in in the thing. But it's not a cookbook.
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+[39:45] It's he puts one recipe per chapter. It's the story. It's it's the he's a really talented uh writer, and I used to love Savoy. All right. Well chilly, well uh I'll check it out.
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+[39:56] I have not read it. Uh wait, no. Nope. Hasn't come across my writer. I'll check it out.
+
+[40:00] Uh all right. So your first job, you're working for your de first restaurant job, right? Or one of your first my first restaurant job, I was working at the Hofstra University country club. Oh Jesus. Well, as a bartender, I was like 15 years old.
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+[40:16] What were those people like? Uh what were they ordering? I don't think I could say that. What were they ordering? Uh back then?
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+[40:22] Was it vodka soda back then? Yeah, I mean, it was it was basically your your spirit plus soda. Those are martinis? Um good tips, bad scotch on the rocks. I mean, like I was 15 years old.
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+[40:29] If I left there with 30 bucks in my pocket, I was happy. I started as a bus boy and the bartender quit. The guy was like, Can you pour drinks? I was like, I was totally bullshitting, but I was like, Yeah, of course I could pour drinks. And like I went back there and I was I had no idea what I was doing.
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+[40:50] People were like, give me a scotch of the rocks. I give them like a pint catered with scotch. Sure, they were happy. I mean, I it took me a week or two. I figured it out, and somebody like semi trained me, but um, you know, imagine being in high school as a bartender, it was incredible.
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+[41:04] Yeah, well, I'm sure that uh you know that I still had to put the tables away at the end of the night. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh well, so but your first well, one of your early jobs, you say when you were 16, you went to go work for your dad's place, American place, right? I did my first summer at at an American place.
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+[41:19] Yeah. So what's that like like working in a place at your dad's gotta it's gotta in a way suck, right? Like we were going before earlier, like I remember you know, when I back when I had bars, like, you know, uh when a member of family would come, I would say, Listen, I'm not gonna intervene on your behalf, you're totally on your own. It's like, you know what I mean? Like, because he they he can't pull favorite card on you, or the or the whole staff will erupt, so it's gotta be hard.
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+[41:43] Yeah, it it was, but you gotta remember, I was a kid. I mean, I was 16 years old, 17 years old, however old I was. Um I I also you have to remember, I didn't know like emotionally, mentally that I was going to work at one of the best restaurants in the country either. I just thought I was going to work at dad's restaurant. You know what I mean?
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+[42:04] So, like I I, you know, I just was going to work. Like I it didn't like dawn on me until a couple years later, to be perfectly honest, you know. Um and you know, that first summer, you know, it's not like they like put me on the grill, you know what I mean? Like I was I was a prep cook and um, you know, I finally got to to make my you know my job after prep. I probably did prep for like a month or two.
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+[42:27] And then, you know, I was finally allowed to make the mixed screen and Caesar salads. But is that where you said that you had the classic like first day where you like hacked your thumb off, you hacked the tip of your thumb off? Oh Jesus. Um that was that was before I did a summer starge. That was because I used to go in periodically, you know what I mean?
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+[42:47] Like maybe go hang out in the kitchen before we like went to a Yankees game or something like that, like growing up. But yeah, I was I was in there for one of those days, like I was in there for a day or two, you know. And um I I remember the guy's name. I think he's pretty successful now. His name is Bill McPherson.
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+[43:04] Um, but he he gave me a a cle a cleaver. Like again, it's like a meat, like a meat cleaver, not like a Chinese cooking cleaver. Yeah, a meat cleaver. I don't know again. Imagine giving like a 15-year-old kid a cleaver.
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+[43:16] And he gave me this cleaver to chop chives. Yeah, it's a mistake. And now imagine you're a kid. So now imagine you know, you can just see what happened. And I was just like, not only that, the chives were ruined.
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+[43:29] It's so bruised. Those chives were hosed. The chives these chives are ruined. You crushed them, you son of a bitch with this cleaver. You mean like your thumb is like I mean, listen, looking back on it, I I probably feel worse for Bill than I did for me.
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+[43:42] I mean, I mean, when the chef your dad probably ripped him up. Well, never mind my dad. The my chef, uh, his name is Richie. Uh um, I mean, you know, Richie was a big guy. I mean, and I I can't imagine what he did to Bill for for doing that.
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+[43:58] But um, it seems seems to be working all right, the thumb. That's okay. It still kind of goes off this way. But uh, but anyway, so I spent that summer, but again, I didn't know what I was doing. I was I needed money.
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+[44:08] My dad was like, well, then why don't you work at the restaurant? Um, you know, and then I did the following summer for um um, I don't know if you remember Shinhuan, Maine in in LA. It's one of it was Wolfgang's Puck's second restaurant. Um, but the chef's name um was uh Kazuto, Chef Kazuto. Um they did a short-lived restaurant in Times Square called Above.
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+[44:31] It did a summer in there, which was great because I had never worked with like um Asian ingredients like that, and it really um opened my eyes to like clean, simple, pure, you know, kind of zen. Is that how you work from that into uh Patricia's restaurant? So the sous chef at Above, his name was Gavin, who I met working at an American place. He then went to A Z. So then I think maybe the following year, like it gets all fuzzy in there, college, high school, I can't remember everything.
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+[45:04] Um, but I think it was this when I graduated college. You still know you wanted to be a pro, right? No, I I didn't. I still didn't until this time. And your brothers and sisters aren't pros, right?
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+[45:15] My one of my brothers is. Yeah. Um and my sister just became the GM of Peasant. Um but I graduated and I was kind of following Gavin. Like Gavin, um he he then became the the executive sous chef at AZ.
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+[45:31] So I I went to A Z. Um, and then we opened Pazo, which turned into BLT steak. Um we opened Pazo. Um, and that was with Patricia and Gavin and Pinomafeo, who was an amazing chef and mentor. Um and then that was when the whole BLT thing happened in my life, because Pazo and AZ both closed.
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+[45:59] And that was when Jimmy Haber hired Laurent Torandell. So let's talk Laurent Turandell. So you are working, and this is right around when this is happening, is when I was writing for Food Arts magazine. So like I was having to interview. Didn't we wear a lettuce jacket on the cover?
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+[46:14] I don't know. I think it was food art. Yeah, I don't know, but like uh I don't remember har hardly anything. Michael Batterbury was one of my mentors who was food art. So he had me write that.
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+[46:22] Uh I started writing for them in like 04. And uh I remember when BLT, so like you know, Laurent Turrandell, the LT from Laurent Turrandell opened uh steak first, right? When they opened, and then I think with Prime, I was writing an article on deck ovens, right? And you opened steak, fish, and prime, right? Yep.
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+[46:41] Yeah. And uh I called Laurent Turandell and I was like, oh, you know, because I'm supposed to be talking about deck ovens. He's like, actually, I like panning steaks. So and it's we you so you but you guys said you cooked them in a pizza oven. But what is what is your feeling?
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+[46:55] Because you were actually doing the the work opening those things on panning the steak versus deck ovens versus pizza ovens on steak back then, because that was when because to me the the Quintess Central American Steakhouse is a deck oven experience, right? Uh and you didn't start with a deck oven and the idea of panning in a restaurant, like you do it on a on a line in a French style place, but not or in a bistro, but not in like a steakhouse. So you want to talk about like like the theory of operation there? Yeah, I mean, honestly, I think it's most likely because of production. I mean, I think listen, if I if I'm cooking uh it's a tough answer to quite a tough question to answer, which I like better.
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+[47:40] You know. Um I think if I was gonna tell you what I what I like the best when you're cooking a steak, like if it's just one steak, me and you, we're cooking, I get to choose what we're doing it on. It would probably be charcoal with a little bit of wood to add some smoke, and that would be my best way to. But as far as like a steakhouse goes and pan versus deck broiler, depends on the size of the place. You know, if if you're in a steakhouse and most steakhouses do a lot of steak, do 300 covers, right?
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+[48:08] Somewhere around there. So because it's a steakhouse, that's probably 280 steaks a night. So you just do the simple math, you know, in a deck broiler, you know, like the one we had at BLT, for example, was a double. I mean, you could fit like 30 steaks on each level. That's 60 stakes at one time.
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+[48:28] I mean, you never did that, but you how big is the sweet spot on one of those decks? Uh probably two feet by a foot, you know what I mean, which is where the guy's really working it. Right. But you could still sear, like he would pull the thing out. You know, let's say it's Saturday night, you're gonna sell 50 uh filet mignon, you get the marks on 50 steaks, boom, you put the thing in for a minute, you take it out, you put the steaks on the rack, you just seared 50 steaks.
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+[48:56] Right. If you did that in a pan or panz, right? You're quadrupling time effort, and you know, when most people go to a steakhouse, they're looking for that char and that kind of you know, um grill mark kind of flavor, you know what I mean? Like that's what they want. So I think when you're working in like a restaurant, like for example, at Forge, um, you know, we pan sear the steaks, you know what I mean?
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+[49:25] Um, but when I had American Cut, which I don't have any more in my steakhouse, we used the deck broiler, and again, it was because of how many steaks you serve. But the early days of ELT steak, which is where the question started, we were panseering most of it. But again, I think it was probably that was what he always intended to do. Because you gotta remember, at the time, you know, Laurent's kind of known for steakhouses now, but before that, Laurent was three-star, the place was called Cello. Um, you know, he came from Toigros.
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+[49:54] I mean, you know, he just won something in Las Vegas for like the best French restaurant in Vegas. Like he was everything was, you know, arose, the time, garlic, butter, and we basted everything in that. Um, but Pazo had a woodstone pizza oven. So I remember Woodstone, are they still around? Yeah, yeah.
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+[50:13] Yeah. So when Laurent took over this kitchen, Jimmy wanted to do a steakhouse, I think, or maybe I don't know, I don't know the exactly. I wasn't in those rooms. Um, but anyway, somebody wanted to do a steakhouse. So they obviously wanted to do it for the the most economically pleasing way.
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+[50:31] So they were like, just use the kitchen. And Laurent was probably like, well, I'm gonna baste my things in a wood-burning oven, that'd be perfect. We'll do a steakhouse. And you know, you gotta remember like a a woodstone opening is I don't know, maybe 18 inches wide, maybe, you know, 12 inches tall, maybe. And you know, Laurent coming from France and who he is, you know, he's like, I want to, I want to do um, I want to set up a a grill in the wood-burning oven.
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+[50:59] So, of course, I was a young, you know, kid, like, yes, chef, yes, chef, we chef. So we've we put a sheet tray into the uh oven and then put bricks on the sides of the oven, and then put she tray racks on top of the bricks, and then made a fire in the oven and then took the coals and put the coals underneath the sheet tray rack. This was by the way, for those of you who don't know, I'm pretty sure that you weren't legal to have open fire in that thing. Oh no, never mind legal. It was idiotic because like you could only fit two porter houses on this stupid rack.
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+[51:41] It was a tiny, yeah, yeah. And to get in it, you had to go like this and then like this. For those of you that don't know, Woodstone actually, even though it's wood stone, like they say that gas works just as well in the in their ovens, and then if you're gonna use wood, you're supposed to be a little bit of wood on the sides, you fire it and you move it over to the edges. You're not supposed to fill it with racks. I mean it's not that big.
+
+[52:02] Fast forward to like, you know, the restaurant's busy now. And and by the way, that worked when we were doing friends and family and doing 30 or 40 covers. And it was great, and it was cool and sexy, and it was, you know, I mean, like it was like, whoa, this is amazing. And then, you know, all of a sudden you start to get busy, and you realize, like, all right, well, you know, order in you got six porter house and eight cote de bouffs on back, and you can cook it on a thing like this big. I mean, the limit was basically once we got over 100 covers, like come back in an hour, come back in an hour.
+
+[52:33] We gotta figure something else out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh well, so speaking of wood fires, so like you know, one of the well-known, like kind of everyone loved this restaurant. It still exists in the in the late 90s. Peasant opens up.
+
+[52:46] Frank opens Peasant in it's right by the French culinary. Where is it? It's on like Elizabeth. Yeah, Elizabeth. And ran it for 20 years.
+
+[52:53] And he was, I interviewed him about this about wood wood fires. Is that he basically is like, I'm gonna f do the wood fired, big old wood fired oven, which he basically built, right? And you know, classic, like, you know, whole roast pigs and all this. And it's just a a place, all the chefs I knew would go to peasant and you know, just have a a nice meal. And then he decides to give it up, give us the date, he decides to sell he sells you the restaurant.
+
+[53:19] You took it over. Well, I mean, I'll I'll tell you the backstory first and then I'll tell you when I took it. But so I I didn't because it's a funny crazy story. But um, I was hosting an event there for the New York Food and Wine Festival. I'd always loved Peasant.
+
+[53:36] I I lived on Mulberry between Grand and Hester for a little over 10 years. So like I ate it peasant probably 20 times. Um, you know, if you know, you know Frank, so like you know, I we were friendly. I don't I wouldn't say we're friends, but we were friendly. He always took great care of me every time I came in, you know.
+
+[53:53] He was always working at the pasta station. I mean, you know, chef chef. And I I gave I give this speech at the event that I'm at, you know, um, how much I love peasant and how much you know every chef kind of wishes deep down that they could be Frank, you know. But we have these, you know, delusions that we have to, you know, be on TV and have an Instagram account and open multiple restaurants, and it's kind of just like how the world has turned into. But Frank is a chef's chef, like, you know, old school.
+
+[54:22] Yeah, I tell him how much I love peasant and how much it's near and dear to my heart. Anyway, so after the speech, he comes over to me and he like gives me like this look. He's just like, Did you really just mean everything you said? And you know, I was like, Yeah, I mean, uh, you know, I'm a lot of things, but I'm not a bullshit artist, you know. And he's like, okay.
+
+[54:41] And like he like stroked his beard, and you know, we just drank a couple for the rest of the night. And then he called me like a couple months later, and he's like, I just want to make sure I'm gonna ask you again. You really mean everything you said? I was like, Yeah, Frank Jesus. And he tells me that they're retiring and da-da-da-da.
+
+[54:58] And um, you know, but I had no idea where he was going with this. I thought maybe he was gonna invite me back to do like a night, guess chef night. You know, he was asking chefs to, you know, we all do that towards the end of a restaurant. Um, and then all of a sudden I understand what he's saying, and I like cut him off. I'm like, Are you asking me if I want peasant?
+
+[55:18] He's like, Yeah, what the hell is he sound like I'm saying? What's the matter with you? And I was like, Oh shit. Yeah, I mean, wow. Uh, you know, this was in um August.
+
+[55:31] And I had already signed a contract to open a restaurant, a wood burning Italian restaurant in the meat packing district. You know, thank thank God it didn't happen. Yes, what meat packing is such a freaking nice again. I it was that that's a longer story why I wanted to do that, but it was a necessity. My wife was pregnant, it was a big thing.
+
+[55:49] Anyway, and I knew saying yes to peasant was gonna really say no to that. Yeah, I knew, but I I couldn't say no. I was like, I don't I don't care what's gonna happen. Like, no, you know what I mean? So I just said I said it on the phone, like, yes, I'll take it.
+
+[56:06] Yes, you know, we'll we'll figure it out. And then I'm like, when? And he's like, uh, well, December 31st is my last day. I'm like, December 31st, what year? Uh 2019.
+
+[56:16] Yeah. But I'm like, I'm like, Frank, this is it's September, man. Like, I how I yeah, I I don't know if I can get all this like done to open a restaurant in January. Like, you know, he's like, well, December 31st is my last day. Anyway, so I took it over January 1st, 2020.
+
+[56:34] I think everybody kind of knows what happened. Yeah, you had three good months there, Mark. I did. It was a it was a fun three months. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[56:40] Oh, geez, Luis. But it's back and you know, it it survived. Yeah, survived. Crushing. But that, yeah, so and it's still maintaining the same kind of the same kind of vibe with like a lot of the stuff off the off the wood.
+
+[56:52] He didn't ask me to keep it peasant. I asked him. Oh, really? And yeah, you know, Frank being Frank was like, you do whatever you want. Your restaurant now.
+
+[56:59] That's nice. But I kept the staff, most of them are still there. All the all the kitchen guys. I don't think I've lost any of them since he left. So uh before we run out of time, your your uh your flagship, your name restaurant, restaurant Mark Forge One's under renovations right now.
+
+[57:13] You want to tell that story, what happened? Uh yeah, yeah, man. Um New Year's Eve, seven o'clock at night. I mean, it's out of this, it's out of a book, it's out of a movie. I mean, seven o'clock at night, New Year's Eve.
+
+[57:24] We just had our first seating, and um, you know, the cooks look at the chef and they're like, uh, gas is gas is off. And you know, the chef's like, well, what do you mean? Just turn the knob. Like, I don't have time for this. Like, turn stop, you know, and they're like, no, chef, I'm done.
+
+[57:41] Who turned the gas off? You know, so we go around the back to see if the somebody turned off the thing. Gas is on. Go downstairs, we check breakers. Uh nobody knows what to do.
+
+[57:52] Because that just doesn't happen. No, no. I've had many things happen. Me too, man. I mean it's not like I said, this is that's not one of the so what happened?
+
+[57:59] So again, we had like I hear music, is that we got two minutes. So you know, the we we shuttle people to peasant and one fifth because we don't know what else to do. Um but how'd the gas go off? To this day, we don't know. We're still having an investment.
+
+[58:13] An animal like died in the tube? What happened? We still don't know. We just had everything repiped. Con Ed is trying to test it.
+
+[58:20] And everyone knows how awesome it is getting uh gas work done here in this. All right. So let me ask you some questions. So I was looking at the uh menu at peasant. I see you buy uh ham from Cesare Casella.
+
+[58:30] That's a great move. I see you're uh staying on your Mulberry Street roots and you buy uh stuff from DiPalos. Uh now here's the thing. Fennel pollen, I thought was gonna be a huge ingredient. You have fennel pollen with the roast pig.
+
+[58:43] That's something they used to do with peasants still, right? So you keep the fennel pollen. Why didn't fennel pollen ever become as big as I thought it was gonna be? Uh I don't know, but I I do think you see it at the I hate to say the right restaurants, but you know, the uh a lot of chefs that I know and respect use phenolplen. Yeah.
+
+[59:00] What about uh you put you put gremelata on a steak? I only ever used to have that on asebuco, my mom used to make and she put the gremelada on. You call it dad's gremolata, and people who don't know you, they're like, oh, your dad, that's nice. But like a bone marrow and uh red wine reduction. So you put the uh put the bone marrow instead of olive oil, it's bone marrow.
+
+[59:16] Oh nice. All right, strong. Uh and uh we're gonna run out of time. All right. I was gonna ask you about different yuckies, because I know you but I wouldn't have time.
+
+[59:27] How about this? Why don't you just say what it's like being the iron chef versus being a challenger? Because you're on both sides. Like, how much different is it when you know the kitchen? I mean, the iron chef definitely has the the upper hand in that sense.
+
+[59:42] You know what I mean? You figure out little tricks and nooks and crannies. Yeah, but are you like uh I mean, did you like doing that back in the day? I loved it. Yeah.
+
+[59:50] I mean, listen, I'm not hating on today's world, but there was a time when Iron Chef was so pure, and it was great ingredients and great chefs going against each other without any hoopla. Yeah. What was your favorite? What was your favorite one that you did? Favor of your episodes.
+
+[1:00:04] Uh, I just did swordfish and I really, really enjoyed it. Again, it was just like a pure ingredient. It wasn't like Halloween candy or something stupid. It was you like cooking with swordfish? Yeah.
+
+[1:00:15] I used I used to get it from Alex. He just retired. Blue Moon. Rod and Reel. I don't know.
+
+[1:00:20] Swordfish. I ate so much of it overcooked in the 70s that I never. I mean, I don't I don't just like go into key food and buy swordfish. You know what I mean? Like just a just a bag of worms.
+
+[1:00:31] You just buy a bag of worms. No, I mean, I get it from fishermen, straight from the fisherman. It's the only way I eat or buy swordfish. Yeah, someone needs to do a prep of just swordfish worms. Yeah, and I don't I wouldn't order swordfish in a restaurant unless it's a chef I know either.
+
+[1:00:44] Well, Mark, thanks for coming on. Uh we have more to talk about, but obviously we didn't get time. And uh I didn't even get to ask you on what the hell is the difference between a uh uh a pizza and a pizza. Is there a real freaking difference? Or is it just a little fluffier?
+
+[1:00:55] What's the difference? Oh no, the whole thing is different. It's it's rice flour, soy flour. Um that's in where Otto is. That's one fifth.
+
+[1:01:03] Ice cold water when you make it instead of you know warm water. It's you know, it's a three-day fermentation. It's it's as wet as you could possibly imagine. The hydration is like 10% higher. It's it's it's a whole different animal.
+
+[1:01:15] All right, so if you want to try these pizzas, you can go to uh one fifth, which was where Otto was, uh, where I used to have a big bar tab because they uh I did some work there and they paid me in bar tab and then they went out of business before I could use the we could honor it. We could honor well Mark thanks so much for coming on. Anytime cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan at Rockefeller Center, New Stan Studios. Joined as usual with uh John. How you doing, John? Doing great, thanks.
+
+[0:22] I'm all like, you know, if you're on Patreon, you can watch us right now, but I'm all confused a cat because I'm turned around. I'm not in my normal seat. Joe's behind me, which is making me a little nervous. How you doing, Joe? Joe Hayes?
+
+[0:31] I'm doing great, man. Nice to see you. Yeah, good to see you. Tuesday. Oh, yeah.
+
+[0:34] Yeah. Every Tuesday. Happy. Always. Um.
+
+[0:38] We do not have Nastasia the Hammer Lopez today, but we do have Jackie Molecules, right? Yes, we do. How you doing? I'm good. Are you in California?
+
+[0:48] Are you globetrotting? I'm in California, though. I will be in DC all of May. So. Is that before it turns into a hellhole?
+
+[1:00] Uh yes. You mean what? In terms of humidity? In terms of just like, listen, I like, I have I like DC, like, I like the things you can do in DC, but DC in the summer is like, oh my goodness. Like, why?
+
+[1:14] You know what I mean? I know. Yeah. It's alternatively swampy and humid. It's the so you go to DC, everyone hates I say this.
+
+[1:23] You go to DC, you go to the mall, right? And you know how like all those walkways are all like dust and rocks? How could it simultaneously be so humid and so dusty at the same time? How do you get both? So that your legs are filthy.
+
+[1:35] Like when you walk around, this is one. I mean, I don't wear shorts, period. But if I was gonna wear shorts, I would never wear shorts in DC, no matter how hot it got, because your legs are just freaking filthy if you go on that mall thing, if you're doing the tourist action, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[1:50] Anyway. No offense, DC. Uh great city, though. Love DC. Yeah.
+
+[1:55] I mean, how how many years you live there? How many years do you do the radio there? Uh four years. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[2:02] So and uh tacking in the upper upper left-hand corner of cooking issues. Quinn, how you doing on Vancouver Island? Hey, I'm doing all right. Yeah? Yeah.
+
+[2:13] All right. Uh, good. Uh and today's special guest, which we will introduce before we shoot the breeze too much, are uh Sarah and Caitlin uh Leong from The Walks of Life, the the well-known blog slash the cookbook is out, slash all this stuff's coming to you since 2013. How you guys doing? Hey Dave.
+
+[2:32] Doing good. Yeah. Excited to be here. Oh, well, uh, we're happy to have you. Uh so I think Quinn was especially excited that you guys were coming on today.
+
+[2:41] Is that true, Quinn? Super especially excited. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Uh I mean, not that we're all excited, but anyway, so this is the portion of the show where, well, before we do this, let's give out the number, John, right?
+
+[2:51] Before we shoot the breeze, let's give out the number. People who are listening live on Patreon can call in their questions to 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507. And if they want to become a Patreon member so they can listen live, what should they do, John? Patreon.com slash cooking issues.
+
+[3:06] There's a bunch of tiered level memberships. You get awesome perks at every level, uh, cooking issues, Google Map access where everyone puts in their favorite restaurants around the world, uh, access to the video stream, discounts to Kitchen Arts and Letters, um, just a whole bunch of great things. So check it out. Patreon.com slash cooking issues. And I'm considering, by the way, doing a voiding the warranty with Dave Arnold kind of a situation where we put some of it out on the regular internet, but some of it just for the Patreon.
+
+[3:34] I've got some very good uh uh warranty voiding coming up. Uh I already voided the warranty on my uh well on my uh what's it called? Uh my frozen drink machine. And uh I'm about I'm about to seriously void the warranty on my countertop fryer. Countertop fryers are disappointing.
+
+[3:55] I feel like is that surprising though? Uh well, also like I feel like like my home uh my home range is ridiculous. So like I can actually do good decent frying on my uh on my home range, but um like everything depends on what kind of frying you do. You know what I'm saying? So like uh I do a lot of like classic uh American frying where the products had been dusted, so it's like it ends with a dry coat instead of ending with a wet coat.
+
+[4:29] Yep. And any and it, you know, anytime you end with a dry coat, stuff sinks to the bottom, burns. And you end up with all that burnt like flour at the yeah, yeah, and then particles. And then because you're not using enough oil, you're cycling, those particles burn, oil goes bad. Even within one frying session, oil can go bad.
+
+[4:46] So, like, you know, even home fryers like that aren't donut style, that aren't the fry daddy kettle kind, um, or the wide, you know, they uh they have a little bit of a cold zone, so it can preserve you if you're doing that kind of and in fact, we're gonna talk later when I talk to you about some of the recipes in the book uh about uh specifically the wing recipe. I know that's I think it's your dad credited for that. But anyway, we'll talk we'll we'll we'll talk about it. But um, the power is just too low. You know what I mean?
+
+[5:11] So like and even a home stove, the power, most people's home stove is only like 20,000 BTU. You know what I mean? If, you know, 25, maybe if they're in a semi-pro, and it's just not enough. So to get a a reasonable amount of power into a uh a home fryer, a wall socket ain't doing it. Right.
+
+[5:28] It's doing it. Right. You know what I mean? So, you know, I figure what if you I'll give you the basic gist. What if you took two fryer elements and you squished you you bent the fryer elements so that both fryer elements could fit in the bottom of the fryer, and then you plugged it into two sockets at once, and now you're at now you're at 3.2 kilowatts of hour.
+
+[5:49] Now I can fry something. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know? I don't know.
+
+[5:55] So I'm thinking about it. Join the Patreon. Uh, and you know, you get such things as a discounted uh the walks of life. Yeah. Nice.
+
+[6:02] Yeah. I mean, the book. You know, from Kitchen Arts and Letters. So we gave a uh discount to our Patreon folks uh for you know buying the uh whatever the book of the person is coming. Very nice.
+
+[6:13] And I know they have like they have a cache of signed copies right now. So nice. Aren't they good people? Yeah, they're awesome. Awesome, yeah.
+
+[6:21] Uh all right, so here's the part on the show where we talk about uh interesting things that have happened to us that are relatively food related over the past week or so. So do you guys you guys have anything? Um, so we were recently in flushing um over the weekend with family, and we went to the new outpost of Woo's Wonton King, if you've ever been there in uh Manhattan, Chinatown. They have a new restaurant out in Flushing. Um, and we had we splurged on a king crab, which I haven't had in a really long time.
+
+[6:53] Um, because you know, it's pretty permanently expensive. Yeah, but we were kind of celebrating because uh we hadn't seen some of these family members in a while, and steamed king crab legs with just garlic. Um it's like a soy saucey garlic, though. Yeah, but I was I was like, wow, do they do the live? Oh, yeah, it is live.
+
+[7:11] Oh, yeah. Oh, they bring it out. $600 now. Yeah, it's insane. This one, so the the key move here is to do the set menu, which in this case, it was a table of 10 people.
+
+[7:22] It was six hundred, it was about six hundred dollars for the crab plus eight other dishes. I mean, that's not so bad. It's too bad. I mean, at least you feel like you're like, okay, the crab is like maybe like three quarters of that. And then show me the body size.
+
+[7:40] Show me the body size with your hands. Well, that's the whole thing. Well, that's puzzle. So the body size. Yeah.
+
+[7:46] Good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was seven pounds.
+
+[7:49] Seven pounds. Not bad. You know, uh, it's gonna make you mad. Uh I've only ever cooked live king crab twice, and they only cost at the time, I think like $150. Oh my god.
+
+[8:02] We used to get them from True World. Yeah, we used to get them from True World Food. And we maybe I cooked it three or we used to get it the at the I used to teach at the French Culinary Institute. And I used to do demonstrations, and we were, let's say, uh, for a demonstration, we were price insensitive. And so like I could get some messed up, messed up ingredients.
+
+[8:22] But yeah, so yeah, so how many dishes did they make with it? So they made two. They made the steamed uh the steamed crab with the legs. Right. What was the sauce you say was on it?
+
+[8:32] It was mostly like it's like garlic, but like soft of soy sauce. Sweet with a touch of soy sauce. Yeah. Um just taste the sweetness of the crab. The other way to get it normally is fried, but I think steamed is just a lot of things.
+
+[8:46] We had a little table side debate because I was like, I kind of wish it was fried, and Sarah's like, no, no, no, no, no. Do do do all of your fancy skulldoggery with the body. Right. Yeah, right. You know what I mean?
+
+[8:59] Like all the flavors, all the textures, like, you know, you're paying infinity for this for the meat. Yeah. And then they did, they did a fried rice with the body. Oh, yeah, that's delicious. Stupid good.
+
+[9:10] It was good. It was good. We have we actually have a similar recipe in the book. Um, we could call it our special golden fried rice. And it was actually inspired by this restaurant.
+
+[9:19] The one with the egg? Yes. So there's like egg yolk fried. So you get this, like those little like strips of, I don't know, like wispy egg yolk. Threads of egg yolk.
+
+[9:28] Yeah, threads. Um, I forget. Do you do that one in the oil? Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
+
+[9:33] Yeah. With the sound effect. And then golden raisins, which is like a bit of a weird flex. Um, but really good. Really good.
+
+[9:44] Yeah. Huh. All right. Now I'm jealous. I got some got some FOMO.
+
+[9:48] It's been so many years since I've had the king crab. Do you think the price is gonna go down or you think it's gonna keep going up? Are we overfishing the hell out of that? I think we are. I think there was actually a king crab shortage recently.
+
+[9:58] Like they were like, oh, no king crab, which is why I was surprised to see it at this restaurant. Um, but yeah, I mean, we haven't had one in like many, many years either, and definitely reserved for special occasions because it is so pricey and relatively scarce. Right. And you know, the other thing about any kind of crustacean is you definitely want to buy it from a place that has like high throughput. Yeah.
+
+[10:20] Because, like, you know, if if you're going to like uh I'm you know, everyone knows what I'm talking about, like a pseudo-fancy place where they have like the one and they keep it alive for like, you know what I mean? It's like the longer those things stay in the tanks, yeah, like the they they basically they I'm told, I don't know that much about crabs, actually, to be honest, how they but like lobster tanks, those things are basically eating themselves once they get put in a tank. So, you know, you want them as soon as they come out of the water as possible. But you know, these places they're like it's a business for them, so they're probably coming in styro right off of an airplane into their tank, into your mouth. Yeah.
+
+[10:55] Oh my goodness. Everything in flushing is just super fresh, like the vegetables, the seafood, like we were walking after dinner, and my dad was like, Ugh, the seafood's just so much better here. Yeah. So well, so do when so he so you're okay. Well, well uh we haven't John, do you have any good uh any good food stories for the week?
+
+[11:13] Anything? No, nothing really, unfortunately. No. Well, I feel like I have another one out of flushing. So we had it was actually before dinner.
+
+[11:23] So we we had a little bit of the munchies because we had a book event at the Queen's Public Library, and then we were walking around Flushing Main Street. Go QPL. My wife's designing a QPL right now. Oh, very nice. Or you know, re redesign the redoing.
+
+[11:35] Yeah, QPL. Um, so we were walking back to the like parking lot, and there's a chuar man. So chwar is like a kebab. That's like the Chinese word for kebab. So it it the characters, the Chinese characters actually cool.
+
+[11:51] Like it looks like a little like two cubes of meat on a stick. Strong. Yeah. Um must be an old school character. Yes, very old school.
+
+[12:01] Uh or old school recipe, I mean. If it has like if the character looks like the recipe, it's gonna be a good one. Right, right, right. It's been around for a while. One of the more intuitive Chinese characters out there.
+
+[12:11] Um, and I was I said to my mom, I was like, Oh, let's definitely get some. And everybody was like, Yeah, everybody was on board, like super excited. And we ended up waiting in line for like kind of a really long time. And I was like standing there and I was like, Did the guys in front of us just order like 40 chwar or something? I was like, what's going on?
+
+[12:31] And then as I was standing there, I was looking and I was like, you know, this is a philosophical difference on like char grilling because they had, you know, they had like the special little narrow grill. It was all very quote unquote authentic or traditional or what you would expect. But it was taking so long to just like cook a few char. And I was like, I guess they're doing it like kind of like low and slow, or like it's like perfectly golden. Whereas like if I do char at home, which there's a recipe in the cookbook, actually, I do it over a natural, like lump charcoal grill, big green egg, little plug for big green egg.
+
+[13:05] And like the flames like high, you know, and I'm like, oh, this is great. The the bamboo skewers get a little char. That's fine. That's part of the allure. You're not gonna eat the bamboo anymore.
+
+[13:15] Yeah, exactly. And then you get little char bits on the edges. But these guys were like so studious about their just like perfect golden exterior. And I was like, I guess. Not gonna lie, I didn't hate it.
+
+[13:27] No, it was delicious, but we waited forever. Like Sarah bailed out and sat in the car. Strong. And then like 15 minutes later, we were like rolling up with the five char sticks that we like waited forever for. And my grandma was like, oh, it shouldn't have done this.
+
+[13:46] No, man. You know, so but you're you're like, but what I'm hearing from you is not not worth not worth the no, it's not bad, but make it the fast way. First of all, why not just go three times, have it three quarters of the way done, and then have a giant freaking pile of them. Right. And then go shop, shop, shap, shap shap shap shap, you know, high he high heating.
+
+[14:05] Yeah, and I kind of was like wondering to myself, I was like, are people complaining if there's a little char to it? Like, is this just like philosophical difference on grilling meat? Maybe. And this is this is in a cart. In a cart.
+
+[14:16] Yeah, yeah. In a cart in the corner of a street. Yeah, no, a cart is not a waiting stitch. Right. That's why I was like, what is going on?
+
+[14:23] Cause I I was like blaming it all the two guys in front of us. It's like two Cantonese guys are like sh you know, shooting the breeze while waiting for their tour. I was like, did you people order like 40 of these things? Like why are we waiting for so long? And they didn't even order that.
+
+[14:35] I saw them get their order. They had like five. Also, and I was like, okay, what's going on here? Yeah. So this is like the opposite of the two hot dogs for a dollar folks.
+
+[14:44] Where I we used to punk them. How like how many can you do? And we would get like a hundred. And they're like, fine. You know what I mean?
+
+[14:53] Just go. You know what I mean? Or like uh the the bun guy at uh Sambar way back in the day, Dave Chang's place, Sonido. Yeah, you could just tell him anything, fire and you just make up a number. He's like, fine.
+
+[15:04] And it just goes, you know what I mean? It's like that's the way to do it, not like even a home that's greeting. Yeah. So I was a little disappointed. And it kind of set me on like a a little odyssey in my own head.
+
+[15:17] I was like, hmm, is it better to do low and slow? Not sure. Well, you can do low and slow, but just do it before I show up. And then that's the other way, right? So like uh, you know, in John's uh, you know, like uh well, you're not from you're saying do you have dual citizenship?
+
+[15:33] Do you have any? Yeah, all right. So he's Belgian, right? And uh, so there's two kinds of places, right? The place that makes so many waffles that they just have all of the irons rocking all the time and you get fresh, and that's where you should go.
+
+[15:46] Right. But they just buy more equipment and more people, you know what I mean? And you wait in a long line for it, but it's a thing you know you have to wait for, or they sandbag them and reheat them, which is not as good, John. Agreed. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[15:58] Anyway, all right. Uh huh. What about you, Quinn? You got anything? Uh actually, yeah, we we actually fired up one of those little charcoal grills as well.
+
+[16:09] Uh like a yakatori style, but just lump charcoal, and then we did actually did just big ribey over that. Um, and then we did like a classic sort of steakhouse style dinner for Easter. Oh yeah. Yummy. Steak steak for e steak for Easter, huh?
+
+[16:29] Not a not a hamster. Yeah, that was sort of a there was like uh no, we we were sort of like a late, late my mom's birthday Easter dinner. Yeah. You know, I once took a whole bunch of Sears alls, turned them like face up, and did like infinity yakitori. It was nuts.
+
+[16:47] Oh my god, it was so hot. Um what about you, Jack? Anything? Anything, you got anything? I've been in like total goblin mode because my girlfriend's out of town, so it's sort of like instant ramen hours over here, which number one, I have to say I think Bulldog, the spicy chicken ramen has to be the best one on the market.
+
+[17:06] That's your favorite? That's what you go for? That's my that's the one. And I think I've perfected it to uh American cheese and egg and kimchi supplementing it. So that's the sweet spot.
+
+[17:20] So, like like you are like how much younger are you than me? There's like a divide. Like when I grew up, there weren't a lot of like white folk ramen doctoring. You know what I mean? Like, whereas now I feel like everybody does ramen doctoring.
+
+[17:36] I feel like, you know, yeah. I think that that was yeah. That wasn't something that, you know, we did. You know what I mean? Like, you know, we were doing it.
+
+[17:45] Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, there were only so many brands, and I have to say it did have a little bit of a reaction when you were like, oh, that's the best ramen. Because you have to distinguish the Korean brands top dog versus Chinese brands. And then if you go really deep, there's like Malaysian and all this other stuff.
+
+[18:02] But I can respect the American cheese slice. Yeah. Hey, you know what's a uh fair. It's just semi. It's like the black container.
+
+[18:11] Yeah. You know what's a pre-made sauce that is apparently very popular that I can't wrap my head around as like a northeastern white dude. Is Vermont curry. Man, I don't like that. Vermont curry.
+
+[18:25] Yeah, I have. I think it's all right. It's a little sweet. It's on the sweet side. Wait, yeah, what is the curry, the curry roux, the like Japanese box curry?
+
+[18:34] And wrap my head around it. That's one of those things I can't wrap. I don't know why. I also don't like this. I like curries.
+
+[18:49] I don't really like currywurst either, the German thing. You know what I mean? That's not my favorite thing. Yeah. I don't understand why a whole country is like, yes.
+
+[18:56] You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. What about you, John? Anything? You like it?
+
+[19:00] Oh, like it. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Oh, like curry worst.
+
+[19:02] I don't have the Vermont curry stuff. But yeah, curry worst is, I don't know. It's odd, but it hits the spot. Okay. We do have a from scratch uh Japanese curry sauce on the blog that we use SB oriental curry powder.
+
+[19:14] Have you ever tried that? Uh wait, is that the was that yellow and red? Yeah, it's like a little red job, like canister. Yeah. Um, that one's really good.
+
+[19:22] Maybe give that a try and see if you're just like anti-curry or if you're anti Vermont. Vermont curry. It's the sweet, it's the host. It's the Japanese sweet. Yeah.
+
+[19:29] I was like, nah, thank you. No. Oh, you Joe, anything? Anything good? Nothing for me.
+
+[19:37] All right. All right. I got two real quick. Uh, one, I did a I uh quickly posted that uh what I'm just gonna call it, don't anyone get offended. I'm gonna call it Turkish coffee so that everyone knows what we're talking about, right?
+
+[19:48] Even though like if you're from a different country in that area, you don't like call it Turkish coffee because you might not get along with Turkish people, and you're like, we also make this coffee and have made this coffee forever. Nice anyway. Um so Special Turkish Coffee is a place, it's a company, and they make the the pots, the uh jezve, the little pots. And so I posted I was with a really crappy one I bought at, you know, the I've got it at Calustian's, which is an amazing store here, but like they you know, it's not like they're selling the highest quality, you know, Turkish coffee pots, right? And he sent me one, and it is the best.
+
+[20:22] I like you ever buy something, or I didn't Biden's case he sent to me, but you ever have someone hand you something and you're like, oh crap, it feels so good. You know what I mean? Like it was two and a half or like one and a half times or twenty twice over twice as heavy as the one that I had. All copper. The tinning was perfect, like everything was made by somebody that cared about it.
+
+[20:44] Yeah. And you also need to have the right size. The reason I rebought is because if you if it's too big, it you're not gonna get the foam for the one cup that you're making, and I'm the only one in the house that's gonna be drinking it. So he sent me this whole setup, and I was just like, oh my God. Because it's a lot of that coffee is very ritual based.
+
+[20:57] You know what I mean? The ritual of making it. And uh, yeah, so he sent that, and I was like, oh crap. You know, and it is more money. Like it's a $60 thing instead of a $15 thing.
+
+[21:08] All right. But it's definitely, if it's gonna be a part of your daily routine, like as an object, every time I pick it up, I'm like, oh you know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It feels good. Uh I mean, I don't know, like there's some things I care about, and they're usually hand tools and kitchen tools.
+
+[21:25] If I'm gonna use them a lot, and if they're something like that, I like them to be good. Yeah, you know what I mean. Speaking of, I noticed in uh that you guys use uh occasionally one of the traditional round chopping block things, you like that's they're pain in the butt though, right? Or do you just photograph on that on that stump sometimes? We usually photograph on that stump, it's just kind of like one of those.
+
+[21:44] So you don't keep it in water all the time and have it all that. Oh no. We're not oiling it or anything. I will say my grandma has one that is basically I I didn't realize you have to keep them wet, but it is perpetually wet because she just has it, you know, that's her only cutting board. It's like this big.
+
+[22:00] It could you not. And it's just like that's everything's done on that. Everything. And like I was cooking in her kitchen like a few months ago, and I was like, it's so small. Everything just started falling off.
+
+[22:10] But there is something about it, it's a very solid, it has a comforting quality. So back back at MoFad Museum of Food and Drink, when we had the exhibit chow up, um, the person who was running the kitchen, his name is John Hutt, and he was experimenting with remember all those experiments he did with cutting blocks? Yeah, it took like three or four of them to get them right, but yeah, and they were so heavy. They were huge. He was he was like I even brought him a stump from Connecticut.
+
+[22:36] I'm like, you want you want to you want a stump? You want me to rip you off some cookies? And you know what I mean? Like, you know, well, they're they're thicker than cookies, but anyway, yeah, anyway, pain in the butt. Um the other thing that happened to me, John, you might be interested, is we're working on this.
+
+[22:49] Uh we make this thing, uh spinzall, which is a centrifuge for bars. And uh we've been out of stock for four years, three years because the pandemic and the factory wouldn't remake them, and they finally say, Well, we're making you a product, we're making you the um the pre-prototype so they can I can approve it, and then they can make the tooling, right? For it's a modification because the tooling already exists, right? There's modifying some of the tools. So when you make a prototype, you don't always make it out of what's called engineering plastic, right?
+
+[23:16] You make it out of like a prototyping plastic that like looks good. And they made a couple of design decisions that uh let's say I don't necessarily agree with. And when they shipped it, those design decisions, they put weights in it, right? And the weights came off. You ever like uh when I was a kid, when you ordered something from uh the mail, right?
+
+[23:34] It it would say four to six weeks. So you would like you would get a catalog in the mail, you would order something, you would literally put a check into the envelope with your address. You would on a piece of paper, you would write down the the catalog number you wanted, the size and whatever, and you would, and then every day you'd be like, and you'd be like, Mom, has it been four to six weeks? And uh, that's kind of what you know, that's what life was like back then, but that's what it was like to wait for this freaking thing. It's been a long, long wait, long, long wait.
+
+[24:03] Shows up. The weights they had put in, they didn't bolt in in a way that made sense. So this is the opposite of the Turkish coffee pot. The weights, and they here's what's even funnier, right? It was in a giant box, cost $460 to ship it to me from Hong Kong, right?
+
+[24:19] So I I pay for shipping from Shenzhen to our agent in Hong Kong, and then I pay $460 for Express FedEx to get this box from Hong Kong to me, right? And you I opened it up and I'm like, ooh, because it's like a layer of a layer of styrofoam, a layer of foam, and then a layer of like the long bubble wrap that you use for like wine bottles, right? So then I'm like, I cut it open, I open it up, and it's shards. Shards. When I say shards, I mean it's like you took a vase and threw it across the room.
+
+[24:56] And what it happened was is they had these these one and a half pound weights that were like bolted inside the thing. And because they were bolted to not engineering plastic and they didn't have like a big washer, as soon as they hit, like you know, in the airplane or in the truck, they hit a bump, the weights snapped off, and then just started going boop rattling around, shattering everything. Oh I was like, oh, just like a pile of just a pile of like looked like broken glass. I was like, sat down, made myself some Turkish coffee. There you go.
+
+[25:32] Yeah. Uh but yeah, this was my semi-food-related nightmares. I don't know if I had any amazing food stories. Although, John, I did a reverse you where my parents asked me to bring an angel food cake to Easter. So I made an angel food cake, and then yesterday you used the yolks for a carbonara.
+
+[25:46] Oh, nice. Good move. Yeah. John has this absurdly large number of uh egg yolk carbonara recipe. Well, it doesn't seem absurdly large when you're just doing one portion at a time.
+
+[25:56] How many egg yolks? Two egg yolks for 80 grams of pasta, dried pasta. So a pound of pasta is 12 egg yolks. Um right. When you say it the single version of it, that's how I think of it.
+
+[26:12] Yeah. I cheated yesterday. I put some of that uh that Spanish uh fish sauce, the garum. Oh, how was it? Delicious.
+
+[26:20] That stuff is so good, but it costs too much. It just costs too much. It's it's like between 20 and 30 dollars, so like um, they're doing like a fish sauce in the style of like a Roman fish sauce. Yeah. So um the only other fish sauce that tastes similar to it to me is the Japanese one, the ishiri, because it's made from uh like fish guts.
+
+[26:43] Right, right. So it's got a different flavor, it's more like canned meat. It's less like regular fish sauce and more like a mixture of fish sauce and canned, like canned like del what's that company with ham? Um no, the the one with the Satan on it. Satan?
+
+[26:59] It's say it's Satan, it's like wrapped in paper. It's a can of meat wrapped in paper with Satan. Corn beef? No, it's uh deviled ham and potted meat, but it's all the same. It's Satan is on the can.
+
+[27:15] Anyway, uh so it's like a mixture of that. I mean, okay, colloquially, like kind of that dog food, that like wet dog food smell, which I love. I mean, I don't eat wet dog food. But um well, okay, yeah. Plug for the like corned beef hash, the canned one.
+
+[27:30] I do love that. Oh, me too. Hormel? Yeah, that's really good. Yeah, that's my favorite thing to order at a diner.
+
+[27:36] Same! Yes, yeah. And let's see how far we go. I always order uh two eggs, uh uh sunny setup, runny and rye toast. Not runny, but I used to be runny and for sure rye toast.
+
+[27:49] Yeah, yeah. What have you moved to? Still fried eggs, or do you go scrambled or poached instead? I'm a scrambled gal now. See, I need the I need I like uh the I just when you break the yolk and it goes into the hash.
+
+[27:59] But then I feel like it just disappears. And as I get older, I want the like, I want the experience of having the perfect scrambled egg. Yeah. And then also, you know, it's a what's your perfect scrambled egg? I do, I do it the the Cantonese way with a little cornstarch to like keep it firm.
+
+[28:18] And then just like usually a little spinach because I'm trying to be healthy. And then if I'm not doing like a if I'm doing like a Chinese breakfast thing or like a lunch or like really any time thing, I'll put in Dua Jiao, which is a salted chili. Uh-huh a Hunan salted chili. Delish. So wait, so like uh what level of uh wetness is the salted chili?
+
+[28:39] Uh pretty wet. It's wet. Pretty wet. So you you you like fry those in oil lightly to just get rid of some of the water, and then you go in with the egg, and then it all sort of just levels out. You don't have to like crisp anything, or you don't have to like really cook off all the liquid.
+
+[28:54] You actually want to keep that like briny flavor straight out of the jar. Very good. I don't know what it's called, but I buy this uh uh years ago I uh did an event in Taiwan and they had these like preserved chili that that everyone would buy. And then I buy a similar thing, but the one that I get from the mainland, but I don't know what it's called. It might be what we're talking about.
+
+[29:14] It comes like in what looks like a little pickle barrel, it's like half gallon, it's like bright red, the seeds and everything, it's all hacked up, it's got like a yellow top on it. It could be that's probably it's not that a lot of salt. Yeah, very salty, I think. A lot of MSG, a lot of salt. It's good.
+
+[29:28] Yeah, it's really the hell out of that. Yeah. It's like that between between that stuff and the lao gamma stuff, like uh although, okay. So in your book, right? Like uh in in the in your book, uh now wait.
+
+[29:40] Is this uh the the chili oil? Is that a is that a Caitlin thing or a serotonin? That's a Caitlin thing. All right. So it's a mean thing.
+
+[29:46] So, like, okay, so talk to me because like twenty percent of the recipes contain it as an ingredient. Okay. Now uh I I and I I'm on board. Except, what is the benefit of making it yourself as opposed to buying one of the commercial ones that's out there? Right.
+
+[30:05] So we just a few weeks ago or so put out a post on like which store bought chili oil is best. Because we get this question often. And the reality is is that there are chili oil equivalents in the market now because it's so popular, right? I think I think you'd be hard pressed to find that if this was like three to five years ago. Yeah.
+
+[30:28] But now because it's so popular, like all of the Chinese food importers are like hip to the groove and kind of have released like stamp, like you know, a bog standard chili oil that's kind of like similar to what we have in our recipe. But they just don't taste the same. Like there's something about it that has that more like sitting around for a while flavor. You can find ones that are pretty good. And in the post, we do we do dub a victor.
+
+[30:54] But honestly, the homemade version is a good thing. I like how you're I like how you're like, you gotta go read it to find out. Well, I the brands are kind of convoluted, so it's not like it's like a super instantly recognizable brand. But yeah, I mean, homemade, so much more fragrant. You do have to buy some fiddly things, but we kind of stack it such that like if you have like the bare minimum versus like the moderate versus like the soup souped up version.
+
+[31:19] Um, but yeah, it just has more fragrance, it has more flavor. You can you get that like sizzly effect, and it doesn't like fade into like the process of like making something like mass produced, you know what I mean? Like the flavor like is maintained. Um and yeah, I think also there's been a lot of like line blurring between like chili oil and chili crisp. Yeah, because I I use a lot of crisps because I like high solids.
+
+[31:46] Right. I love a high solid. That's actually pretty polarizing. So I'm glad to hear you say that. Cause I like high solid too, but a lot of people are like, no, I just want the oil.
+
+[31:54] So if you if you only just want if you only want the oil, first of all, you can customize that at home. But um, yeah, chili crisps are just saltier, they have different flavors going on. So it's people will say on the blog that they make like mofo tofu with like a chili crisp, and I'm like, okay, more power too. But like in my mind, that's too much salt. Cause like there's a spicy bean paste that goes into the mofo tofu that's already really salty, so you're kind of pushing your luck if you start adding like super salty, like Lao Ganma in there, also, you know.
+
+[32:26] Um so that's why we tend to prefer homemade version, because there's no salt. I mean, you can add salt if you want, delicious, but there's no salt, it's more fragrant, it's pretty easy. And it's it's also more designed for cooking, right? I feel like uh what we found in a lot of the chili oils that we tested was that the chili oil cook level, like of the flake was had gone too far. So like when you pull the flakes out of the oil, you're like, oh, that's like almost black.
+
+[32:55] Right, you know, and so if you're gonna cook it again, adding it to it to another dish, it's gonna be like way beyond cook. So again, another little burnt all the way to scorched. I don't think people appreciate like when chili peppers, like sometimes they're good, kind of burnt in some recipes, but I don't like the bitterness of a burnt exactly chili philosophical difference because of a burnt dry chili. Right, right, right, right. A wet chili, you blister the outside.
+
+[33:22] Yeah, totally. Yeah. But like if you I did like an experiment, like as my chili oil recipe has been so like through through the gauntlet over the years of like people making it. It's like, oh, it's whatever. It's been refined.
+
+[33:36] But yeah, like I think a lot of people get like hyped in the the sizzle moment when you pour the oil over the chili flakes and it's like the bubbles rise up and everybody's like, oh my god, so good. And at the end, sometimes it is the case that they are blackened. And that can lead to bitterness. Some people like that. Go gaga for that.
+
+[33:57] I respect it. But I like more of like a bright red color. And that's what you get most of the time. That's what you get at home. It's what you can get some of the time from the store shelf, but is like hit or miss.
+
+[34:12] Like a lot of like, you know, artisanal chili oils that are like out now, like they have that like black quality. I don't know. Yeah. Some of the ones I've tried, some of them I'm not gonna call anybody out, but like there's rancidity going on because the heat level's been too high. Like the cardboard aromas, like paint aromas, like weird.
+
+[34:29] I'm like, no, no. Right. Like we we tried all of them on like the a blank canvas of like a very basic store-bought dumpling. Like very little, yeah, extra flavors going on. And well, yeah, we just weren't impressed.
+
+[34:42] Like for exactly the reasons you said it was just like tasted kind of old. Yeah, you know. I had one that I tried that my wife was literally like, this tastes like poison. And um, but interestingly, like I let it open and uh the the poisonousness kind of flashed off. Oh.
+
+[35:02] Interesting. Yeah, I don't know what it was, but weird. She was like, That's not so poisonous anymore. I'm like, that's still not a ringing endorsement, you know. You know?
+
+[35:10] Does anything aerate? It's like in the 70s, um, people used to, when they said chili oil at like, you know, the Chinese restaurants, it was literally just oil. Does anyone even use that anymore? Is that even a thing anymore? I don't know that that's really a thing anymore.
+
+[35:25] I feel like on on the table it's usually a little plastic canister with flake at the bottom and you can kind of pick as you wish like what how much solid you want. And then at the dim sum places too actually like we used to only be able to get chili garlic sauce like sambal. And now they're serving chili oil or it's not that hard. Like you don't necessarily have to ask for the chili oil to like put it out. And they're solid in there.
+
+[35:54] So I feel like they're they're making it in house um I think it's more common and it's less so coming out of a like a an industrial cheating you still see those little bottles where it's just red oil in the store. And I'm like when do we see that? I see it at 99 ranch still. Oh okay. And I I glaze right over it.
+
+[36:15] Yeah. But they're there. And I'm like how long have those been there? Does your mind just erase it as you pass your mind there's a blank zone there. Yeah I'm just like Yeah.
+
+[36:26] I bet you some people cheat though. Like in other words like uh you you know Heinz ketchup. Yes. They uh they have an advertisement where they admit that people um fill Heinz bottles with fake ketchup. And I've it was kind of a weird advertisement but I was like passing by and they were like even when it's not Heinz it has to be Heinz and they have a picture of a person squeezing bull crap ketchup into the colour.
+
+[36:49] It's outstanding advertising. It really is they're they're marrying other ketchups into like Heinz ketchup bottle because everyone wants Heinz. Yeah. So I bet you something's happening with I bet you the because restaurants, a lot of them don't have probably time to make their own. Especially because if other people do a good job.
+
+[37:03] But you're saying, I'm gonna make your recipe though. Cause like, I mean, I spend a lot of money on crisp. I am a crisp guy, though. I'm a crisp guy. And like, you know, I'll take it with or without the uh peanuts in it, but I am a crisp guy.
+
+[37:16] Um we're all crisp people, I think we've seen over the past several years, but each one has its occasion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. All right. Uh all right.
+
+[37:27] So uh I'll be remiss. Uh we should talk about what the blog is and kind of the um I mean it's kind of a unique proposition, right? Like, so the walks of life, you started 2013. Yep. Right.
+
+[37:41] In 2013. Right. And then, you know, I'm sure everyone asks you like the origin story a million times, so I'm not gonna force you through that people, you know. But it is incredibly rare, as you know, for a whole family to do a project like this. You know, there's been like, you know, one parent, one kid, or you know, and but to have kind of a collaborative four-person, four people, two generation, you know, two siblings, two parents, like culinary odyssey that, you know, ten-year culinary odyssey is kind of unheard of.
+
+[38:16] And I'm sure that's a huge part of, you know, a huge part of you know, the appeal for you guys, right? And I know it's a huge part of appeal for your readers. Um, but the other part about this I think really interesting, you know, for those who don't know, go to the walks of life and check it out. But it's uh is that it's got um because you're all different people, like one person had, you know, worked in restaurants for a long time, one person, you know, grew one person's, you know, more from Cantonese side, one person's more from Shanghai side. You know, there's the American-born Chinese experience in it.
+
+[38:53] And like, so basically anything and nothing can or sh could be quote unquote authentic. I hate the term authenticity as it's applied to American Chinese food. We could talk about this later, or any food in general, not just Chinese food, all foods authenticity. When people talk about it, because what the hell does that mean? People eat food if it's theirs, it's authentic.
+
+[39:11] Whatever. We'll get into it because people have asked questions. Um, so just I don't know, it's not a question, but why don't you like t talk about this weird amalgam and kind of how you you have the ability to, you know, uh you say that you don't like that you can mess up any recipe. And then on the other hand, is talking to um to um Caitlin, but then you have on the other hand, you know, the the dad who was a restaurant chef, and you know, the mom who's been so it's kind of it's amazing amalgam. You want to say anything to that or just leave it to our lies?
+
+[39:41] Yeah, I think um, well, the blog started as a family project out of necessity because it kind of it was the case that um we started it because Caitlin and I like wanted to learn the food that my parents uh prepared for us growing up, and we realized that even though we love to cook, we had no idea how to put dishes on the table that uh were Chinese. Um, because they weren't written down, right? And we didn't like to learn by watching, like it it didn't feel as intuitive. And also like our parents would be like, oh, go do your homework and you know, get out of the kitchen. Um, so we started the blog together for that reason, because essentially, like we knew nothing, and my parents knew everything.
+
+[40:23] That's how it kind of started. Um, over the years, uh, you know, Caitlin and I have become a lot more knowledgeable and proficient in this. And so that has been kind of the coolest aspect of it is to see like it going from this like knowledge passing project to more of just like all of us on equal footing, developing our own recipes. And then like really seeing the sort of like differences, as you mentioned, kind of coming out from that, right? So like my dad did uh grow up cooking in restaurants uh with his father, his stepfather, and uh his grandfather as well was a chef.
+
+[41:02] Um, and my mom grew up in China, um, and her food experience was extremely different, um, not just culturally, but also, you know, from a context from like a political context. Like she was growing up during the cultural revolution. Um, and then yeah, and then my sister and I uh basically just translating uh my parents' cooking and then also sort of just exploring the dishes that we grew up eating that weren't that weren't even necessarily part of like a Shanghainese or Cantonese uh tradition. So maybe part like it was partially like going out to restaurants, like trying Sichuan food for the first time, like traveling in China. Um, so yeah, we tried to kind of put all of those things in the blog and the book.
+
+[41:46] Um, and hopefully at the same time expand people's view of what Chinese food is. Because I think that here in the US, it's very sort of at least um up until recently, when we've seen a lot more sort of regional Chinese cooking coming into the US, um, it's been very Cantonese focused because uh most of Chinese immigrants to the US throughout history have been from southern China, um, have brought that cuisine here, and it's sort of also evolved into its own branch of Chinese American cuisine. Um but yeah, we we just hope to sort of like bring uh these regional dishes also to people's attention and really expand people's view of of Chinese food and how varied it is. Yeah, so I know Quinn was interested in this idea of developing recipes with your family. Quinn, what was it specifically you wanted to uh to ask?
+
+[42:39] Oh, I was just saying that we're not working my family. I think that's most people's natural reaction when they hear about what we do. I mean, well, one of the things that like I was uh you know reading, reading about it, reading the the bio in the book and also like, you know, like food network profiles, et cetera, et cetera. Is that I'm sure everyone, and you you know, apparently you self-claim certain roles within the thing, but everyone I'm sure wants to pigeonhole everyone in the project into their own silo. And we were talking before the program came on.
+
+[43:13] It's gotta be irritating, right? Being and it's gotta, I mean, like I find that I find it kind of irritating. Yeah, I think everybody's like sort of natural thing is just to like kind of everybody wants to like give you a role. It's like, oh, what's your role in the blog? And we do, I mean, we do like have we have roles.
+
+[43:32] We do sort of like have like things that we specialize in, right? But um, I think that the sort of the lines between each of us are a lot more blurry than that. Um, you know, I think that we we uh like throughout the the process of writing the book, we switched recipes a lot because it was like, oh, we thought, like, oh, you know, maybe our dad is like the right person for this recipe. As it turns out, I was the right person for that recipe. Um, so we would just like when we were really struggling, we'd just be like, Oh, do you want to switch?
+
+[44:02] Like, we'll just switch that like you do this, I'll do that. And um it was nice to have the perspectives switching, like, you know, you would think that we would all be pigeonholed. And even when we sort of were like, okay, let's go our default strengths in the process of writing, it was actually like, oh, you know what? Kind of need to like break the script a little bit and see, you know, maybe somebody else can take a crack at it. Right.
+
+[44:25] And so, you know, in the in the blog, do you do I mean a lot, but you do a lot of revision, like you'll revisit things, you'll say, So, how painful was it to put something into a book that was gonna get written down and then you couldn't change it again? It was pretty freaking painful, I have to say. Pretty scary. It was scary. Yeah, to be like, okay, we're gonna put this down on paper.
+
+[44:49] We cannot change it. I mean, in theory, you have subsequent like editions of the book, but like it was a lot. Yeah, good luck with that. Yeah, yeah, right. So um, it was just it was scary.
+
+[45:01] We were very like these tests, these recipes have been tested like to the nth degree. Um, and I was there were a lot of like late nights of just reading the book over and over and over again. I probably I personally probably read it like 10 times from cover to cover, um, just to check for mistakes. And then also there was this aspect of like, there are four people we each like on the blog, there are things that we don't necessarily think about in terms of like our differences in how we write a recipe or how we write out instructions. But in a cookbook, like where you have a lot less space, um, you want more standardization.
+
+[45:38] There was a lot more like, oh, my dad is like way more wordier than my mom, like than my mom when he writes a recipe, and like, you know, just having to like standardize things, like how you like the order of operations in a recipe, or like whether or not you choose to go into X detail about whatever that was challenging. Right. Cause it is, it's like it's nice to have different people's introductory voices, which is clear in the book, but it would be jarring to have the flow of the recipe itself be different from recipe to recipe because then you'd have to mentally change how you that's a problem I hadn't thought about. Yeah, and I feel like it's not like it's something that does kind of show up that we're a little bit more lenient on on the blog, and it's less jarring on the blog. I don't know why.
+
+[46:24] Maybe it's just because there's so much more on the blog. We have over a thousand recipes on the blog. Um, but yeah, like just standardizing everything. Um, that was a challenge. And then also just like annoying like little stuff, like like measurements of like we have this recipe.
+
+[46:41] We have this recipe that like calls for like 20 wall, 20 large walnut halves. And like our editors, like, how many cups? Like, how many? So, like, I'm like in like the well, I think it was cups first, and then you had to count the halves. The fifth pack of editing, and I'm I like run out to the store to buy a bag of walnuts, and I'm like counting the walnuts, and it was just like stuff like that.
+
+[47:03] Hate, hate, yeah, uh, gramps, everything should everything in life should be gramps. Agreed, true. All things everywhere should be gramps. Yeah. Um so in recipes that so like some of the recipes and stories are attributed, right?
+
+[47:17] To the one of the four of you, and some aren't. So, what's the story with those? Are those all like group efforts? Or like someone didn't want to claim it, or like sometimes it's like you're like, we got this. Uh, you know, we were talking to the folks at Chan Famous Foods, and like we got so like obviously that one, yeah, you know, uh, but like what does it mean when it's not attributed?
+
+[47:35] When it's not attributed, well, it kind of goes back to like Sarah's saying about like standardizing, and there were times where we had to like decide when to standardize and how much to standardize, because obviously we didn't want to strip all of the uniqueness away. But you know, our editor did point out she was like, Oh, you know, if you're like constantly voice switching, it can get a little bit tiring. So there were recipes that were just more of like group effort or like recipes that we all felt like we had like um the same level of affinity for almost, or not one of us had a particularly affinity for, like where it was like, oh, we have like a unique story, it was kind of like, oh, this is kind of something that we all can like uh share and like reflect on as like our collective like we voice, quote unquote. So that's kind of how we tried to navigate that. I will say that that every recipe did have like a lead developer on it.
+
+[48:29] So even though even though they're behind the scenes, yeah. So even though they're generalized or not attributed to anybody, every recipe was like owned by one of the four of us. It would be chaos, right? Yeah, I mean it would, yeah. I mean, so like the way that the development process worked was like you go off, you do your thing, you develop the recipe.
+
+[48:49] When you feel it's ready, you bring it to the group. So, and that's the way we work on the blog as well. Otherwise, it would just be like constant peanut gallery happening. Um, so how long is the recipe development for a blog? Like how many iterations does something have to go through for a blog where you know you can change it versus a cookbook, or is it the same to you?
+
+[49:08] I think generally it's the same. It depends on the recipe. Yeah. There have been recipes that there are recipes that I that we do that are just like first try slam dunk because it's something that was built off of something else that's existing or like a technique that we already know or we're already familiar with. And then there are recipes that take years.
+
+[49:29] Um my dad uh we mentioned this in the book and like the timeline page, but there was a sesame ball recipe. So there's like little dim sum fried sesame balls filled with like lotus paste or red bean paste. That took three years. Um, because it would just be like it was like they were exploding in the oil, like steam was building up and they were just exploding and like yeah. I used to for like when I'm frying mochi stuff, it's still just explodes.
+
+[49:56] So what's the solution? So low and a you fry it a lot longer than you think you have to over low heat. Yeah, it's like a donut. It's kind of like, yeah, you're you're and you're just constantly kind of moving it. Um and then also the other the other big discovery by my dad was because the sesame seeds would just kind of like fall off in the fryer in the oil.
+
+[50:18] So his solution was like actually kind of like crazy that this works, but you moisten the sesame seeds before you roll the ball in the seeds. I mean, just like with a mystery with just some water, just like a tiny bit of water, you just like kind of mix them up, and it's not you you don't wet the outside of the ball. You don't, it's the sesame seeds that need to be just slightly damp to stick on and stay on. And what's surprising about that, I guess, is like water hitting hot oil and it being okay. Um, but I think it's just like just that small enough amount.
+
+[50:52] Um so that recipe took a while. The tarot puff recipe. I did not realize that that was not a separate coating. Yeah. Isn't it mind blowing?
+
+[50:59] It is mind blowing. The first time we realized we were like, what? You got a lot of recipes where the oil temperature control is very important. Yes. So you mentioned in that recipe that oil temperature control is vital to get the that that you know.
+
+[51:20] Yeah, yeah. I mean, that is nuts. John, you seen that recipe? No. You know what we're talking about?
+
+[51:24] The uh the fried tarot password, they're like it's like a dim summer nuts. Yeah. It's all in the lard, baby. Isn't it isn't it always? Isn't it always?
+
+[51:36] Uh yeah, delicious, delicious lard. Well, I think you point out a forget whether it was blog or book, but uh, you know, large the new health fat, man. I think I mean it's not that far off. I mean, it's a natural fat. You can digest it, it's not uh chemical.
+
+[51:51] You don't seem to be turning on seed oils as well. I don't yeah, I don't know. Wait, turning against it? Yeah. Which which seed oils?
+
+[51:59] Like literally all of them. Like the like defined oil. The like super extreme health crunchy. People are against all refined things. I mean, yeah.
+
+[52:06] Yeah, you know, it's like whatever. It's uh it's a it's a pendulum. Yeah, it's a pendulum. Uh all right. We have a question in I would like to get to before I just go through all the questions that I have for you.
+
+[52:20] Uh oh, by the way, next week, you want to say who we have coming on next week, Don? I'm embarrassed to say I don't know who's on next week. Oh my homodashtaki from the Oh right. Oh, the yogurt, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.
+
+[52:29] Oh, yeah. It's gonna be so good. Yeah. So, you know, uh, for those of you that aren't in, I don't think they ship outside of the New York metro area, do they? I think it's just their local white mustache is like some super fancy yogurt and uh uh Iranian Persian yogurt.
+
+[52:43] Oh, yeah. So she'll be on uh in the studio next week. Uh her book, Yogurt and away. I'm pretty sure we're gonna have it at Kitchen Arts and Letters on discount. Um, but I only saw that because I was flipping through to the question we have.
+
+[52:57] Uh so Giuseppe Musk says, and this is an interesting question, uh is cultural appropriation a real phenomenon in food. I think that's interesting because you know, food is constantly evolving, right? Different different people take a recipe and run with it. Um I think that when you claim a recipe, when you claim a recipe is of a certain culture and is authentic, but you didn't necessarily, if you didn't necessarily like do your research or tribute or you didn't attribute that recipe to the source of where you got it. Then I think things get a little bit dicey.
+
+[53:42] Um but I will say that I think it's all about the attribution game. Yeah. Because there are certain, especially now in like the world of food media, like the lid is being blown off all sorts of things where it's like, oh, this technique, and then it sort of becomes like um adopted as like the best way to do something. So like let's take the example of the cornstarch slurry and the scrambled eggs, right? That's a great technique from Chinese cooking.
+
+[54:10] And it's like you could just make regular breakfast scrambled eggs with that. And it's like that's not so loaded in terms of like cultural appropriation as an example, but I think it's nice to know that it comes from like a Chinese cooking technique, and to like say that to acknowledge rather than for like you know, X big, you know, big box smart food media company being like, oh, well, we came up with this technique and it's so brilliant. Discovered it. Exactly. Or so like, like uh, so like the question, right, is and I think a lot of us are struggling with this.
+
+[54:47] I know in the in the book that I'm theoretically writing, I'm also struggling with this because you know, I've spent a long time like trying to learn new techniques, so they come from everywhere, you know what I mean? Um but in the early 2000s, you know, a lot of uh bartenders would, you know, look at certain Japanese techniques, and they would then be like, then they would teach the Japanese techniques to, you know, um non-Japanese uh people, and then kind of like they would make a business out of it. In other words, like this became their unique selling point that they had this kind of thing. Isn't that where it becomes more so when someone's like, I am now the conduit through which you can learn this Japanese technique, isn't it? I mean, that seems to me to be clearly problematic because you're literally saying I can teach somebody else about this technique.
+
+[55:34] It's not just you know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, I think it depends. It depends a little bit on I guess it depends on like your level of training in that technique and how like how much it was actually informed by like the culture that it comes from. Um, and also like I don't know. I think the perspective of like having uh respect for that culture and wanting to wanting to share it with people isn't a bad thing.
+
+[56:04] But I think where rubber beats the road for a lot of people is like who's profiting off of it, and then that becomes like the conflict. But I think and whether that's the only person who gets to talk about it. Right. Right. And I think we struggle with that sometimes because, like, as Chinese bloggers, it's almost like, okay, you want to be the respected source for Chinese cooking, and you want to be like respected as a as a representative, as an advocate, whatever word you want to use.
+
+[56:36] However, like on the flip side, like a double-edged sword, you don't want to necessarily be pigeonholed all the time of like, oh, the Chinese person talks about Chinese food and that's it. Right. So I think that's what's that's what's annoying. That's what's super annoying about it is that as a Chinese, as a Chinese cook and a Chinese food blog, like I'm largely only allowed to talk about Chinese food, right? Whereas somebody who's not necessarily from that culture, like um can talk about can talk like have their take on a Chinese recipe, on a Thai recipe, on a like a German recipe or whatever.
+
+[57:11] And I feel like that part of it is challenging for me. If we're not sharing on Instagram like noodles and rice, whatever, people just like tune out almost. And I'm like, we've we've adopted like this policy where it's like, hey, hey, if we're talking about food that's not Chinese, y'all better sit up and listen because that means it's really good, and that's it's just for us, it's just for us for our records, our personal recipe archive records. Because otherwise, people are just like, oh, why should I care if you're talking about banana bread? And I'm like, well, I have eaten banana bread my whole freaking life.
+
+[57:43] Thank you very much. And and did your core audience get that or not? I think our core audience gets it. I think they do. But yeah, like, you know, it's kind of this broader thing when you look at the world of food creators, like who gets to be like the person that like spans all types of food and who does it, you know, or who gets like kind of stereotyped.
+
+[58:07] What? Jesus. Uh all right, listen. Uh couple things. Uh salt baked chicken, the Haka recipe, was the only unmitigated disaster of the past five years in my because I ruined the walk.
+
+[58:21] Uh-oh. I try to do a mishmash. I read you guys' post on it. I but I didn't do it in an oven. I used a boatload of salt.
+
+[58:28] I tried to get it in like I overheated the bottom of my walk. I didn't so like, and then I realized in the book you published a simpler recipe. Is that the recipe I should use? The salt chicken. Absolutely.
+
+[58:36] Yeah, so easy. Let's use that one. All right. And also, uh, the uh the the roast pork belly, that what they call in the restaurants down here roast pig. Yes.
+
+[58:45] That is also an interesting recipe where you give credit credit to uh another blog, and like that is my favorite thing of all to like if I'm walking down the street, the thing that catches me in a window is roast pig. I'm like roast pig, roast pig. And much like who wait, who was it who is it that did that? That was uh you did that, right? Like is that it's like much more so than the than the regular roast pork, the the sauce papery, yeah.
+
+[59:06] It's my favorite too. It's so good. It's really good. So is that recipe like super on point? I think it is.
+
+[59:12] You you should try it and see if it's so I noticed you didn't do any of the baking soda or any of the other stuff. You would add vinegar to keep that's keeps it blonde, right? That keeps it from getting too dark when you're doing the roast, a little bit of vinegar. Yep, and I think the the the key for me in the book version of the recipe is this the very short blanching of the skin because it's the skin is so leathery, it can be really hard to poke the holes into it to get it to the puff up in the crispy, but if you blanch it really briefly, it'll it'll helps out a lot. All right, so listen, I thought I was gonna be able to talk more about more stuff with you, but like, you know, if you want to read about the white-cut chicken or the by the way, the chicken wings, how are they?
+
+[59:47] Because they're a wet on wet, and I was gonna talk to you for 20 minutes about like you know, Willie May's Scotch house and how like wet on wet. Is that a working recipe? You like that recipe a lot? Absolutely work. Very good.
+
+[59:55] Um, yes. Generations old. And and sorry, sorry. The uh the the duck that is basically like halfway to confit and you steam it, which reminds me of what Nathan Mirvold used to say. He's like, you don't need to do confie, you can just steam your confie.
+
+[1:00:09] He doesn't talk like that. And uh but like that, but you only steam it like 30 minutes, so is it still chewy? Well, what would happen if you did it for like an hour and a half? I mean Have you tied it? I mean, in Chinese cooking, this like fall off the bone meat is not really.
+
+[1:00:25] You want a little bit of like toothsomeness to your meat, so you could and try it. I personally have not tried it. But I I like my meat to be a little bit like have a bite to it. Okay. It's really good.
+
+[1:00:37] That's the one your mom got from her buddy. Yes. Yes. From from her, like her actually, my grandmother's co-workers at the the w the dress beating factory. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[1:00:47] Midtown, yeah. Uh I used to live in the garment district. All right, listen, uh, go by the walks of life, check out the blog uh for what's interesting is sometimes the book has a simplified version that's not on the blog, and sometimes they're different. You point to the blog back and forth. So it's a good it's a good thing to have in your home to point back to the living document that is the blog.
+
+[1:01:04] Sarah and Caitlin from The Walks of Life. Thanks so much for coming on. Thank you so much, Dave. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, the Rockefeller Center at News Stance Studios, joined as usual with uh John behind me. How you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yeah?
+
+[0:22] Yeah. Doing well? Doing well. This uh weird, we can't decide what kind of spring it is today. Yeah, it's really strange.
+
+[0:27] But whatever. As long as it's not dripping sweat heat again, I'm I'm good. Yeah. Yeah. All right.
+
+[0:32] Got uh Joe Hazen rocking the panels. How you doing, Joe? I'm doing great, man. How are you? I think good, I think.
+
+[0:38] Yeah. You look good. Thanks. Well, it's been a weird uh I was taking uh my you know my younger son Dax around to look at the colleges that he has to choose between, which is you know, everyone, you know, it's nice to be able to choose, but then he has to choose. And so I feel like it's a Monday, even though it's a Tuesday.
+
+[0:52] Ever happened to you? No? Never I have Sunday Mondays are my Sundays, so today always feels like a Monday. Everyone's work week is so messed up these days, John. That like I always when I'm when I'm seeing someone, I try to gauge the look on their face.
+
+[1:04] Like when I'm at a store, I was like, is today your Friday? Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Anyway.
+
+[1:10] Uh got uh I hear uh Jackie Molecules over there, I'm assuming in Los Angeles. Yes, I am in LA still. Get this, Jack. So we're at this college place yesterday, right? And you know, parents every parent parents have to ask goofy questions.
+
+[1:25] That's kind of like what you do, and there's always a couple parents who are like, me, me, me, me. And so this one person was like, I'm from LA. How are how are my kids gonna be able to handle the weather out here? We're all like every like literally, like my entire section was like, you don't go home. Go home.
+
+[1:43] Anyway, uh, because it was a northeast college. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[1:47] Got uh Nestal uh Nastasia in uh, I'm assuming in uh coastal Connecticut. How you doing? Good. I'm good. It's windy here.
+
+[1:57] Yeah, it was windy down here, but it like uh so you know, Nastasia, for those of you that don't know, she's like in this like like weird little house, like literally right on the water on the sound, and used to like like wind, I guess, right? But now you hate wind. Yeah, I really hate it. I can't stand it. Yeah.
+
+[2:16] But it's like that's kind of problematic. Yeah, I know. Nastasia's house is so windy. I mean, like, okay, so like I guess it's not like the ocean ocean, because it's Long Island Sound, right? So it's like you do have like that, like, you know, little pile of rocks, Long Island, like kind of breaking the breeze coming off of the uh, but I guess the the wind for us goes the other way anyway, right?
+
+[2:37] It comes from behind your back. But it's so windy where Nastasia is that like it's kind of a regular thing where someone will call her and be like, hey, your windows are shattered, right? I mean, like just like a regular thing for you. No? Yeah.
+
+[2:53] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Also, winds travel in many directions, not one realize that wind comes from like lots of different directions. Where you are, you mean?
+
+[3:02] I mean, like generally where we live, they come from the west, like overall. Overall. Overall. What do you mean? That's prevailing westerlies.
+
+[3:10] I'm not making this up. Like that's a thing. But yes, I mean, obviously, it can come from any direction at any given time, right? That is that what you mean? Like at any given time, it can switch directly.
+
+[3:19] But where you are, it seems like you can get beaten from any direction. No, but the rest of the world has names for the winds for the different directional winds. We're the only like country that doesn't know our wind names. You mean like the prevailing westerlies? That's the only one you know.
+
+[3:37] What are the rest of them called? We don't have any here. We have like certain things like nor'easters that come in from different directions, but like, you know, we we don't, you know, that's that's what we got. We're kind of a boring joint. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[3:48] Like, why what do you what do you what do you have? What do you what what do you name them over there? Uh like over there, like a hundred, you know, 80 miles north of me or whatever, it's 30 miles north of me. Oh, no, no, no, never mind. It's complicated.
+
+[4:02] Never mind. I like a complicated story. We have the Santa Ana winds over here. I think they that's and down south we have El Nino. Yeah, we don't get that.
+
+[4:12] No, it's our topic. I mean, it affects us hugely, but we don't get it. You know what I mean? We're you know, hey, Connecticut, interesting, geologically very interesting state. Super geologically interesting.
+
+[4:25] Anyway, whatever. Uh got uh Quinn in uh Vancouver Island, how you doing? I am good. Yeah, really? You sounded non-committal.
+
+[4:35] Yeah, really? All right. You know, now is your chance to say no, actually. You know? Anyway.
+
+[4:42] Yeah? Okay. And uh, you know, in keeping with uh the past uh it's been a year since we've been doing it, so I don't even need to say it's like a new thing anymore, right, John? Because it's like how we do it now. Yeah.
+
+[4:52] Yeah. Uh like to welcome our guest, uh owner, founder of White Mustache Yogurt, author of Yogurt and Way, uh, Homa Dash Taki, how are you doing? I'm good, thank you. I met you recently uh at a talk you gave for MoFad, the Museum of Food and Drink, uh, at the Essex Street Market upstairs, which was uh nice. And I guess was that set up by uh by Nasli, our uh fearless uh yes it was at uh yeah at uh part of the part of the kind of uh Iranian food mafia, as she says.
+
+[5:23] Her her words, not mine. Yeah, follow her off a cliff, that woman. Yeah happily yeah nice. Uh all right, and then also though introduce your book because we share an editor yes we do yeah Melanie from uh from uh Norton that's right she she matchmade here today knowing that I had this ingredient and she finds very eccentric esoteric homes for me and this is a perfect one because I've always loved the cocktail world um yeah well this is gonna be a little weird because it's so funny okay so um people who know me know me as kind of uh uh inhuman monster right John yeah yeah like it's not that I'm not human it's that like um I don't know well how do you how do you put it Stas it's like what I don't I don't like uh like the feelings don't work or something like this what is it yeah yeah yeah uh and so uh in reading your book but we we're gonna get back to our normal shooting the breeze but in reading your book like your book is very much about having feelings yeah yeah and so like like a lot of this conversation for me is gonna be like working around like someone who clearly like has feelings about things and like the way that I think about things. So it should be fun should be good.
+
+[6:49] Uh it's not that I don't have feelings it's just uh whatever we'll we'll we'll we'll get into it. So like uh so now's the point of the a part of the show where we mentioned if we anything interesting happened in the past week in the food usually in the food realm, but not always. Like I already basically said I went around to, you know, where you know Dax was considering going to college, but you know, I did have good ice cream at UConn though. You know UConn has very good ice cream. What flavor?
+
+[7:13] I had so uh when you're at UConn, uh, I don't know if you have to be in the ag department, but you can take a class in ice cream, right? Which is amazing, right? So, like to me, like the the the ones that I know of, the great ice cream programs are um Penn State, UConn, and Cornell, right? As far as I know, I'm sure there are many others. These are the ones only that I know about.
+
+[7:36] I've I've never been to uh State Cate College, Pennsylvania. So I've never I've never had uh Penn State's ice cream, even though my grandpa was a nittney lion. Anyway, um, but Cornell's ice cream is good. But Yukon's ice cream, like they milk their own cows, they have their own cows, they milk them and they make it, and the seniors get to make a flavor. And so, like, whatever like the best one of the suggestions is, like it's called a senior scoop.
+
+[8:03] So I got senior scoop. It was it was good. It was like uh almond, it was like an like uh an omaretto kind of a flavor with uh chocolate uh chunks and uh some nut, I forget what nut, whether it was more almonds or something better, like pistachios. Not that almonds are b worse than pistachio, you know, but they just they'd starve. But you know what I'm saying?
+
+[8:23] Uh it was good, a little too uh a little too uh Omeretto for me. A little too little too of the too much of the extract, but the texture was good, it was good, and I like to support a senior flavor. Yeah. So that was my yeah. Okay, that's great.
+
+[8:36] So my weird food thing for the week? Sure. Yeah, actually, something super weird did happen to me. Um I boiled a gallon of milk and it didn't boil over. Huh.
+
+[8:48] It just sat in the pot and it gled. And the core of me was shook that this, you know, like the whole thing is to worry about that moment. Yeah. And now I am on a quest to buy a gallon of every possible type of milk. Spoil them side by side and try to replicate it and understand why.
+
+[9:12] Okay. And I'm not even a scientist. I'm I'm almost like repelled by science and food. Um which, you know, I know this is difficult to know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[9:21] But uh I was I couldn't believe it. Like I was like, how is this milk not behaving in the way I'm accustomed to milk behaving? And so was it a different milk? It was a different milk than I normally use, but it was like of the caliber. Um, and I won't name names until I like do my until I until I can confidently name names.
+
+[9:43] Um but I was it was really upsetting. I was like, why isn't this doing what it's supposed to be? Let me ask you this. So it's boiling, right? It didn't it didn't foam up at all.
+
+[9:54] It it just kind of gur it started like it kind of cappuccino latte a little, but that was it. It didn't like come up, it didn't start rising. I don't even understand how that's possible. I don't exactly did you make yogurt from it? I I did.
+
+[10:10] And did it work? It did work. So it wasn't like these ultra pasteurized milks that don't work. It was it was just baffled. I'm just fully baffled.
+
+[10:20] Yeah, because that's not something and like you know, you didn't know this is like a spiritual crisis. You didn't have like a bunch of like silicone compounds rolling around, you weren't like boiling down like bicycle lubricant in that thing that's a minute before or something like this. No, and I even got access to like a fancy copper pot. So like everything felt very legit. And it didn't happen.
+
+[10:42] Was it in front of a bunch of people and were you embarrassed? Yes, it was and now I'm here talking about it to really double down on that. Look, this happens to me, uh it doesn't happen to me as much. I used to do a lot of like kind of on the road demos, like a lot of them, and I always love using like local ingredients or whatever, but like uh often, you know, something that you think is always gonna happen, someone hands you an ingredient and you're like, Oh, like, oh, you know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[11:12] Like uh, I had a milk problem once, but with you know, UHT, like they brought me the UHT milk, and I was trying to break it with uh uh like uh alcohol and acid. I was trying to break it into curds, and it just wouldn't break from a huge group of people, and I was being translated because I I don't speak Spanish, and it was like it was a nightmare. You know what I mean? Yeah. Another time, also in front of a Spanish-speaking audience, also being translated, I got these awesome bananas that were like really sweet tasting, like super, like you know, not the Cavendish like we get.
+
+[11:46] And uh I was like, oh, these are really ripe. These are gonna work no problem because what I do is I blend them into liquor, rum, and then I put them in a centerfuge and I spit them out. And the, you know, a Cavendish banana when it's fully ripe has no starch in it. These bananas, even though they were delicious, still had starch. And so it wouldn't clear out.
+
+[12:05] And so, like, and you get a perfectly clear oh son of a man in front of everybody, you know what I mean? I hate it. But this, like, I mean, I hear you, and I will try to be forgiving, but I feel like this is milk. Like, milk needs to behave a certain way, otherwise I'm gonna be very mad at it. Yeah.
+
+[12:21] Um, so I need to I need to kind of understand what happened. Okay, so how far away was it? And without obviously you're not gonna name it, but like this was like can you source it again? It was windy Connecticut. Uh I'm gonna source it again.
+
+[12:32] It's the wind. I mean it is the wind. You know, maybe, you know, maybe maybe Nastasia has a stink eye zone around where she lives where she can throw the stink eye onto the milk and have it not boil over. I and Mercury's in retrograde, so we may we may need to take all these factors into consideration. Yeah, well, you gotta source that milk again.
+
+[12:51] Yeah, I will. And then, you know, somehow get word back, you know, to us what happened. I I will. Yeah. Because uh repeatable weirdnesses are super interesting.
+
+[13:01] Super interesting. I don't know. Delightful, actually. I had another non-repeatable thing. I okay, my my family is against microwaving uh things in plastic, which whatever.
+
+[13:12] I don't want to really wanna get into it, but like like cork containers are made of polypropylene, and you know, they can withstand like a good bit of temperature as opposed to polyethylene or these other things, right? So I was melting butter because that's what I do. I don't know. Get a pan dirty, what am I gonna get a pan dirty for that? Like find a mug?
+
+[13:28] I don't know. What do you do, John? I'd probably put it in a cork container and put in the microwave. Ding, yeah. And so like I put it in there, but you know, I'm also super lazy, so I'm a one-button microwave guy.
+
+[13:39] I just I hit the go button and then I walk away. And I must have hit the wrong go button because like three minutes later, I was like, why is the microwave still going? And it hadn't boiled over, which of course butter typically does, but it boiled up the sides and it had turned to brown butter. I had accidentally made brown clarified clarified brown butter in the microwave, and then I'm like, I'm never doing this again. I'm never gonna do this again.
+
+[14:04] But I was still like, you know, it was a nice uh it was a nice thing to brush on top of my biscuits, you know. Did it melt the plastic? Depends on who you ask. Right. I don't think it melted the plastic.
+
+[14:16] So I all I need now. Yeah, yeah. The biscuits were good though. I was using Sonora White, which is one of my favorite wheats. I've been now experimenting with a lot of Snora.
+
+[14:25] It's expensive though. It's expensive wheat. Uh what about you guys? Uh what are you with, Stas, you got anything? No, no.
+
+[14:35] No, just the wind? Just you and the wind. Yeah. Yeah. What do you like to eat on a like a windy night?
+
+[14:40] Pasta? Let me guess. Oh, I don't I really I don't know. I don't know. It all sucks because of the wind.
+
+[14:49] What about what about a rainy night? Do you still love a rainy night? Did I put that song in your head? Have I poisoned your mind with that song? It's fine.
+
+[14:59] Dave, right now we're not I'm we're not really eating. I'm not really eating we're we have other problems than like me thinking about and you our business, yeah, but not for not for this one hour a week. This one hour a week. We don't have those sort of business problems. Well, I really indulge uh myself on rainy nights and yeah, I go like full like cooking mode.
+
+[15:21] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice. Good to hear. Yeah. Good to hear.
+
+[15:24] Yeah. What about you, Jack? I I um my uh I impressed my girlfriend with the cerezal too. That's what just happened. Nice.
+
+[15:35] She's I'm always looking at it like, what? I don't get it. Like yeah, the sous vide, but why would I want one? And then we had sort of, you know, wood fire pizza at a restaurant and came home with some leftovers, and I was like, aha, the perfect moment to flex you why you need cereus all, and everybody does. I I love it.
+
+[15:56] Sheated the pizza and she was like, Oh my god, this is better than it was at the rest of the restaurant. I appreciate it. I appreciate you, Jack. Although for like one small moment, I thought you were gonna whip out of like you had some sort of like fanny pack or something with the whole torch rig in it, and at the restaurant, you're like, hold on a minute. And like doing it at the restaurant, that would be that'd be intense.
+
+[16:20] Get you kicked out, but it would be would it get be intense. Oh, for sure. A hundred percent. Even like Nastasi and I at the height of our like bad behavior at Roberta's Pizzeria never went that far, right, Stas? Oh, that would be that would have been great.
+
+[16:34] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Hold on, let me fix this for you. Because the thing with the wood-fired pizza, especially like it it's it's so time sensitive. If you don't eat that thing in the first like five minutes, it's being chewy.
+
+[16:47] I don't know. So to you to you is kind of needs the sears all table side. To you, is that an inherent flaw, or is that couple of minutes where it is the way it is before it ha that happens to it worth the worth it to you? For me, inherent flaw. I'm I'm like funny enough, like not a huge fan of Best Sal Pizza for that reason.
+
+[17:09] Huh. Okay. I think this is something you know that you know reasonable people can have disagreements about, I think. You know? Right answer, wrong answer.
+
+[17:17] Yeah. What about you, Quinn? You got anything for me? Uh I got two little things. Okay.
+
+[17:23] One, I actually did a little yogurt project yesterday, kind of. I had some homemade, like heavily, heavily streamed yogurt, and I actually used that as the curdling acid for a mini batch of ricotta, and it was really good. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
+
+[17:46] Like a whole milk, like uh you get good milk up there? In the great north northwest west. I didn't get I didn't get the fanciest milk. I got like m mid tier milk. But it was good.
+
+[17:58] So I also made oh yeah go ahead. Well what's mid tier milk to you? Okay, it's like the big brand but it's the organic one. So wait. Okay, can I tell you something people gonna get really pissed off.
+
+[18:14] Booker bought with my credit card an organic milk and when I looked at it I said to him you just paid extra money for a label those people don't care about their product. And he was like what? I'm like you just threw money into a toilet I don't know but I think I'm not the right person because I get like I only I only will pay extra if I feel somebody cares about their product. But that's me. But you think these people cared about their is it we in other words for you mid tier is it mean that you bought organic or you think you bought something where they at least moderately cared?
+
+[18:50] Yeah both like again there is a like medium sized brand of um grass fed milk that's relatively local. I usually try to get that if I'm doing like a serious milk project but they didn't have it in stock at the time. Okay. Okay. Uh all right Daniel leave anyone out anyone's got anything?
+
+[19:14] John, did I leave you out? Yeah, I went out the other night. I don't know, this is more like a question, I guess. When does a martini stop being a martini? So specifically I went to this place and I had this whole martini menu.
+
+[19:27] Vodka, vanilla, clarified passion fruit, lime, sherry, and sparkling wine. Like that's not a martini, right? No. No. No.
+
+[19:35] It's no. No. No. Uh although listen, there's a couple of things. There's a few things that I hate more than semantic discussions of cocktail names.
+
+[19:47] Uh especially as it relates to what is what particular cocktail and what is not. Because then like, you know, at the end of the day, everything is either a martini. Yeah. Sometimes people split things into, well, there's there's a martini in a Manhattan, and then everything else is a daiquiri, basically. Uh, you know, or maybe some people split off a margarita because it's got a liquor modifier.
+
+[20:07] It's like thing or that's all. I'm like, no, you you're you're all dunces. It's it's like, you know, certain combinations of like sugar acid and alcohol, uh, you know, I don't know. But like to me, like a martini should be something that is a martini. Yeah.
+
+[20:23] I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. It's just it was uh like to me, an espresso martini not in a martini. Not a martini. Yeah.
+
+[20:28] Nothing to do with a martini. Agreed. Glass. I think for like like the thing is like people I think a lot of people think a martini is anything that's served in that glass, which I also hate that glass. Oh, I hate that glass.
+
+[20:39] Homie, you like those glasses, martini glasses? I'm uh I'm a big tradition like I like a show, so that glass is so showy. Uh yeah? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[20:49] Uh it's uh it's a spill waiting to happen. Yeah. Yeah. But like a coffee cup is a spill waiting to happen for me too. I'm not to be trusted with that.
+
+[20:57] That's fair. You know what the one good thing I'll say about a martini glass is that uh it is relatively if you are mixing while you are intoxicated, it is relatively um insensitive to you messing up your measurements because you can add a little bit more or a little bit less to a martini glass and because it is such a cone right that last little bit of of glass can absorb a lot of extra stuff and so it's easier to get a passable looking wash line in um in a martini glass everything else I hate about them oh do you like them when they have goofy goofy stems like little zigzag goofy stems I find that tacky horrible yeah right that's that's a bridge too far for me oh good yeah I'm glad that there is a bridge I have a line I have a one line yeah yeah yeah okay uh yeah so I'm I'm with you did uh whoever you were with disagree with you John no no they were all kind of agreeing but it was just I don't know it was yeah I mean look I think that you can take something like a martini and if you like put a splash of sherry in it as opposed to like the vermouth depending on which share you use I mean whatever that's close you know what I mean like sparkling prosecco fruit no no no I thought you were gonna say when does a martini stop being a martini and it's like after about five minutes when it warms up yeah that's true yeah then it becomes filth you know what I mean which is why I feel that martini should be s short and and you know drunk in a snappy fashion you know about you Joe you got anything for us no slow slow food week all right all right I feel like you know sometimes you come in with like a with like a like a strong sometimes you come in with like a strong food something. You know what I mean? Not this week, no. Just you know, usually you're you know I've been making a lot of food for my son.
+
+[22:54] Oh, yeah? Like uh, do you know that Nastasi and I believe that there is a market for our centrifuge in baby food, but because I'm terrible at making claims for things, we haven't figured out what that market is. Would you say that's right, Nastasia? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[23:11] Yeah. It is, okay, check it. So, like, if you take. So you know how you strain yogurt, obviously, since you have a yogurt company. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[23:20] Go on. So you can do the same thing to fruit, where you blend the fruit up, and you I know you're anti-centrifuge. We'll get into it in terms of taking way out of yogurt. But you can you can blend the fruit, and then instead of juicing it, even like puree's you can spin it in a centrifuge and the juice comes off the top, and what's left over is like God's baby food. It's like yeah, but like the pectin's been wiped out, so it's like hyper smooth.
+
+[23:49] Makes makes makes Gerber look like fools. You know what I'm saying? But it's just like it would only be for the fanciest of babies. Of course, everyone wants to think their baby's fancy. Every every baby's fancy.
+
+[24:02] Yeah. But I find it kind of repugnant to try to make people feel guilty about one more thing when they're a parent. Sure. You know? That you're not giving them the fanciest.
+
+[24:13] Yeah, you're not giving it. You didn't centrifuge your baby pump. Yeah, so you're a bad mom. Yeah. You know, oh my god.
+
+[24:19] It's uh there's fewer fewer things worse than putting more guilt on it onto a mom. You know what I mean? Like and let's face it, it's gonna be the mom. Nine times out of ten. Nine times out of ten, you're making the mom feel guilty because it's well, it's sexist, but dad's not gonna give as much of a crap as the mom.
+
+[24:35] It's just historically true, I would guess. Yeah. Just by being here, my kids are eating crap right now. That's all right. All right.
+
+[24:43] Michael's doing his best. All right. Okay. So uh let's get to the book. Now, the book is called, well, first of all, let's let's how am I gonna get into this?
+
+[24:56] How am I gonna get into this stuff? So, first of all, talk about the company because a lot of people know or it you don't ship far, right? So you have to be kind of in this region to know uh white mustache. That's part of the the shtick. First of all, named after your dad's apparently your dad has a luxurious amazing mustache.
+
+[25:11] Yes, yeah. He has a big white handlebar mustache. He's had it my whole life, and I'm 44. And if you got rid of it, it would be heartbreaking. I wouldn't even recognize him.
+
+[25:20] Does it look similar to the one that's on the yogurt? Yeah, it's I it's identical. It was like, you know, totally molded after his his look. Does he does he have to does he have to apply wax? Oh yeah, you have a picture.
+
+[25:32] Yeah, does he have to apply wax or anything to it? He he uses a special silver shampoo now. We get it for him so he can just keep it up. You could kind of see it here in profile. I'll put up a picture.
+
+[25:45] Oh yeah. Um, that's like, yeah. But he always like regularly has turmeric or beet juice stains on it. It's he's he's not very he's not very on brand. So it could be a yellow mustache at time from time to time.
+
+[26:00] There he is. Does he ever oh that's so strong? That is a strong, yeah. Does he ever eat beet juice on one side of his face and turmeric on the other and do like a Harley Quinn kind of a situation? No, but my kids have recently watched the Lorax, and so now he's very committed to getting some color in there.
+
+[26:14] Oh yeah. I don't eat the the Lorax that how old are your kids? Three and four. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[26:20] Uh yeah. Have them watch that the original Lorax or the BS new one with the songs. Uh I don't know. I don't know if it was new. It was good.
+
+[26:29] I thought it was good. Did it have a lot of songs and a lot of modern animation, or was it more like 22 minutes long and you know, I'm the Lorex Speak for the trees, and that's pretty much it. I don't remember. Yeah. I'm very I like the old Lorex, but I'm old.
+
+[26:45] You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's how it goes.
+
+[26:48] I only watched like it in the background. I was like, this is my one chance to do laundry. So I was, you know. Yeah, I get you. I get you.
+
+[26:56] Uh all right. So uh you have this yogurt company, and uh although it's like super fancy. I'm just gonna say that. I know that like when I was talking to our publisher, to our editor rather, uh, I was like, yo, she's like super fancy. And sh and and Melanie our our editor was like, no, no, no, no, you know.
+
+[27:17] She's real basic. She's not fancy at all. Well, you know, fancy in a bad way, I guess. You know what I mean? Like that.
+
+[27:25] I yeah, yeah. Um you know, it costs what it costs because of how you do it. Yeah. And it's in a nice glass jar. So it has the appearance of being it it has the hallmarks of being a very fancy prop.
+
+[27:36] Yeah. And I I appreciate that. And I I um I think I love the process so much and revere the process so much, that fed every decision on how to present it, because I also didn't know how to like bring it to your house in like a big tub, which is what I actually want to do. And so if I'm gonna put it on shelves and ask you to have this be a part of your DNA, I'm gonna make it really as special as the three-day process that it takes to make it is. And that was, you know, that was what informed it, and I could see how it comes off as being very special.
+
+[28:14] And the price is also like very luxurious. And um there have been times during my journey and making white mustache, I haven't been able to afford my own yogurt on the shelves. And I get that. Um I've learned a lot about how groceries are priced. Um, much of it is not in my control, especially when I can't um supply the amount that is on demand.
+
+[28:38] So uh just a lot, a lot of factors that go into it. But yeah, I am a little upset that the impression is that it's fancy when my whole life this was made as common and you know, um, teach you to make it as as a very special thing, but to make it regular, to make it normal. I mean, maybe that's just maybe that's just me, but because I'm as I've said earlier, well-known bad person. But like uh I think it's interesting to hear you like talk about it. This is also kind of reading the book, you get uh in the in the first section is an interesting kind of history of um one of the histories you bring, because there's several histories in the book, but one of the histories is the history of the company itself, right?
+
+[29:26] So uh, you know, quickly you're a lawyer in 2008, like you know, you get laid off and you are trying to figure out what to do. And mine tell me when I'm getting this wrong, and you're like, oh, um you reconnected with starting to make this yogurt. You're living in California at the time, right? Correct. Um, and uh, you gotta tell you gotta tell this next story.
+
+[29:48] So you you you basically have been out of, you know, a normal job other than working on an avocado farm or whatever you were doing. Yeah, you really worked on an avocado farm in the off-season. I did. I did. What work is there doing avocados in the off-season?
+
+[30:01] I just chain smoked and was really depressed for three months. It was terrible. But did they pay you to do that? No, they I mean, if there was work, they would have, but like I just kind of was like hanging, and like the owner was this like older couple, and they were lonely and they were like, cool, somebody wants to hang out on this little casita on the property. And it was just all very poorly informed, and I was just looking for something different.
+
+[30:25] So I wouldn't get sucked back into like a legal career um in New York City. Yeah, and you was like court, you were like a corporate level. I was a corporate, like a couple blocks away from here. Yeah. Um, I was doing securities and derivatives.
+
+[30:38] I was really bad at my job, actually, but I enjoyed it. Like I thought, like, like, you know, this was my hallmark of having made it and um, you know, got go work in a fancy office with a fancy salary and fancy clothing. Um, and I just once I got laid off, I was like, please don't go back there. Like, don't do it. Like, find something else.
+
+[30:59] Well, well, the avocado farm was just my portal into Right. That just seems such a random portal. Fun, interesting, but you think it's gonna be interesting, I guess, and it's not. No, it was it was it was it was very disappointing. Um well, so you you know, you said in the talk that I saw you give and in the book, the various reasons why you think you felt compelled to succeed in a very public visible way, uh, as a lawyer, right?
+
+[31:28] Um, I don't know how much you want to talk about that and how like because now you have obviously a very good success in what you're doing now. Uh like how you see that is kind of different. Like in terms of what you write in the book, it seems that your success in this is built around something that is important to you and to your core as a person and not as just an external sign of success, which is like you know, my impression of what you felt about what you were doing, somewhat self-imposed, somewhat societally imposed. Didn't seem to come from your parents in the book. No.
+
+[32:02] I I think, yeah, I wish it came from my parents. I could blame them for, and this would be real easy and fun for me. But I think I internalized an idea of what success meant and what making, and I just like I came here from Iran at the age of seven, and I immediately developed like almost like a chip on my shoulder that I had to prove that I belonged here, that I proved that I was worthy, um, that I had proved that I deserved a seat. And like that just led to overachieving at school, overachieve to get like the A plus, to get like, you know, into a good school. And I like latched onto this identity as an attorney, or this identity as like, you know, uh a lifestyle.
+
+[32:45] Um, and I achieved it. And it was it was like almost like blindly following that. And then once I got laid off, like I looked for any reason, like it was almost like a spiritual thing for me. Like the avocado farm was a desperate plea for help. And the yogurt is one, like it just weaves every part of my very complicated identity and background and skill set into something that is I feel like is so worth sharing with others and is so rewarding and is so difficult to do every day, but kind of like it just completely consumes me.
+
+[33:28] And I feel so grateful having it's like finding someone you've like fallen in love with, and you're like, holy crap, this is incredible. Um, and I've never gave myself that chance before because I just had this tight iron grip on some like weird notion that I imposed on myself. Um, I mean it's kind of sad, kind of happy, kind of whatever it is, what it is. Uh well, it's uh it's also interesting you write that when you were you know casting about for things to do in you know between 208 and 2011 that like you know you hadn't considered yogurt before because it was just like it was like always there. It was not for you, you know, like for you know, culturally in your family, it's just always there.
+
+[34:14] And so like it wasn't, but then it became kind of this amazing thing to you know, kind of reconnect these stories with your dad, like sitting around, like you know, him telling you about you know the sandwich shop that he, you know, uh I guess used to work in, or you know, and so like it became this way. And so part of what I think is interesting and what the book is really about is like here's you know, you starting this business reconnecting yourself to yourself and to your past. In fact, and we brought this up, and even though there's no cursing on the show, at least not if we can help it. Uh I like also that you have this uh amazing um on your these are end papers, right? Yes, yeah, this amazing, and you said you held up publication of the book so you could get rights for it.
+
+[34:54] It what yeah, and this is a very traditional like um tablecloth. I think I've seen this in every Iranian household, and it just like screams food to me, like put food on this table. Oh, really? So you see this and you're like, I'm getting ready to eat. Yeah, this like tablecloth to me.
+
+[35:10] Yeah. Um, and I think it's from the Victorian Albert uh museum. Love the VA. Yeah. It's just a beautiful end paper, and we waited, and um, yeah, Norton was incredible.
+
+[35:23] What were we talking about? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cursing my children. You help me. Most of the time when I forget my train of thought, people can't help me.
+
+[35:30] They don't remember what my train of thought was, but you do. Yeah, I'm I'm come back anytime. Uh all right. So this book, well, you want me to read it? Well, you say you just a dedication to the book.
+
+[35:48] It says this book is dedicated to all immigrants who are with humility, grace, and a relentless sense of humor, constantly explaining themselves to others and to my daughters, in whose strong and beautiful hands I place the responsibility, joy, and privilege of carrying on our traditions. Don't f it up. Yeah. And so, like, and that's you know, throughout the book, it's it's uh that mix of like tradition, self-deprecation, and also, but this I'm serious. You know what I mean?
+
+[36:19] Like, yeah. Um, and I think I struggled with the don't f it up because I was like, one day my kids are actually gonna read this, and what kind of relationship am I gonna have with them when they do? But I also think so. My family is Zoroastrian, and it's uh an Iranian Zoroastrian, and it's a group of uh it's a religious minority and also like an ethnic identity. Like there's a language, there's a food, there's music, there's songs, there's history that are very particular to this group of people.
+
+[36:52] And I have felt like the whatever the positive word for burden is of carrying these traditions on and knowing that they're going to be either diluted or disappear with me. Like I might, my kids are probably not gonna speak the dialect of daddy that I speak and know. And I've felt this pain my whole life and this like sadness around this my whole life. And I I don't know how I'm gonna teach or talk about it to my kids, but I want it to be light a little bit. And it's almost like I want to share my story and these stories more for you and for my peers and for people I've grown up with and other Americans to just like share these stories that you may never otherwise not have access to.
+
+[37:43] And how I bring my kids into it, and how I decide to hold on and teach and carry and preserve is like a journey that I'm still figuring out and will figure out. But like as I was, I was like, you know, I want to write this book as authentically, authentically, authentically as this like Iranian Zoroastrian experience is possible to honor my other peers who I think have have felt this way in the Iranian Zoroastrian community, but then also like give you kind of like a fly on the wall look into like this world. And you know, I have I have the tool of food and I have the tool of language, and that's kind of it. And you know, I hope parts of it are funny, I hope parts of it are you know, skeptical. I, you know, I just wanted to just uh the feelings thing you said earlier was like, I was like, yeah, exactly.
+
+[38:40] Like, I just want this to be sappy and cheesy and like really about about like the human experience that I can only like safely tell my story through the language of food. Right. I mean I know almost nothing about Zoroastrianism, like almost nothing. Why would you? I mean, like uh, and you know, what I didn't realize is that even though it hasn't been the state religion there, you know, in what is it, 1700 years, 1400, 1400 years, 1400 years about, it hasn't been the state religion that it's still a lot of the cultural under underpinnings of like the culture of Iran is still Zoroastrian-based.
+
+[39:24] You want to talk about that like a little bit? Because I I didn't know about that like at all. Yeah, yeah. So Zoroastrianism was one of the first monotheistic religions of uh the world. And it was the religion of the Persian Empire when it was like this vast empire.
+
+[39:41] And now the Persian Empire has dwindled into modern day Iran. And you know, this is why like Iranian culture, Persian culture is different than its bordering Arab cultures. Um it's very much rooted in its Zoroastrian heritage. So something like Noruz, which is the first day of spring, which marks our like the first day of our calendar, is based on the seasons. It's the spring equinox, and every Zoroastrian holiday is about the seasons.
+
+[40:11] There's six gambars which celebrate harvests. Every equinox and every uh solstice we have a big holiday on. And these were ways for people in the past to like mark time to just get through the darkest night of the winter to think about food and feeding each other to get ready for spring, um, you know, to slaughter their animals, to harvest their pomegranates, um, and to mark the time together as community. Right. But the, you know, that when you were talking before, you're saying there's like a lot of things that are just without taking on religious aspects, kind of good things to do, like uh a new year, the the you were talking about visiting.
+
+[40:55] Yeah. Yeah. So the Persian New Year, there's a tradition, and so the new year in Iran lasts like a whole month. Um, and there's a very lovely tradition called Didobazid, and it literally means like C and B scene. Um, so we invented that long time ago.
+
+[41:12] Um, but like you go first, you go to the homes of your elders and anybody who's lost a family member. So any home that's in mourning or in grieving, and you know, so you visit them first in your community, and then it's just like a free-for-all-all of visiting and being a host. So like both a guest and a host kind of like have equal weight, and it's an honor to be both of those kind of roles, and that lasts for a whole month. And like to me, it's just so obvious, like a uh an obvious behavior, like it's springtime, you've spent all winter, like, and you like just like the sprouts come up, you go out and you visit, and it's just like um, it's very in tune with nature, which I mean, even I myself have lost track of over there's also like a treat yourself aspect, right? Like get a pair of get some clothes, yeah.
+
+[42:07] You get your brand new clothes, treat yourself, um, treat yourself. Um, you get good food. Yeah, the the rice and the fish to mark the the first day of the new yeah. So you know if you get the book, you had this or the like the interesting of uh I think we used to do the same thing also, not to the same level. Like uh what's the name for the the culture of refusing and then being offered like a million times.
+
+[42:29] Oh tarof. Yeah. Yeah. My husband doesn't do like he refuses to do tarof and I'm like horrified by like he'll take the last piece of like a cake or or someone offers him something and he'll immediately take it and I'm like, oh God. Um but then I like I try to explain it to him.
+
+[42:48] I'm like, you know what? This is not gonna make any sense. But you have to say like you know like a little bit of a a dance. Um we used to do it it's like two or three times depending on like how formal things were going. Yeah.
+
+[43:01] You know what I mean? Yeah. You want some more you want some more? No no no I couldn't have some yeah yeah and then like you we eat like three plates of it and I offer you a fourth and you I'm like oh you don't like it. Yeah yeah you don't like it.
+
+[43:16] Oh you didn't lick that yogurt jar. Oh you don't like it. Do you take offense when people don't uh fully clean out the yogurt jar especially because you had to work so hard to make it well it's because I've seen people lick the yogurt jars. So now when I see them not do I was like wait what what? Like but I I'm crazy.
+
+[43:35] Yeah. Yeah. It's fine. Uh well so and so back to this like one one more time. Yeah um the other thing that kind of runs through it and you you were saying a kind of a uh you know, telling telling your kids they have to carry on the tradition, don't f it up, is this sense of sadness of the dwindling of the community.
+
+[43:52] There are only, you say, I'm gonna say off the top of my head, around 20,000 Zoroastrians left in uh in Iran, uh, more worldwide, but uh, and uh from what I can gather on the internet's uh not a proselytizing religion, so not growing uh really even in the diaspora. Yeah. So this like worry, as you say, that this kind of like old vibrant culture and whose food you you know highlight here so well, along with some new recipes because you need to use the way. We'll get into that in a minute, right? Yeah.
+
+[44:20] Um yeah, it's gotta feel like a big responsibility, no? Yeah, and like, you know, I I think I've I've embraced like my struggle with it with like the way and evolving and new recipes, and there is a large Parsi community, which is the Indian Zoroastrians, and I do think that the youth of the community is evolving, is adapting, is and and uh and I think that like that's all very wonderful, but there is this very small Iranian Zoroastrian community. Um I I I feel just the a little bit of like an artificialness and keeping up our traditions in the diaspora. Like it's I it's all so connected to the land, and it's all so connected to um behavior. Like we I'm not harvesting pomegranates every October, you know.
+
+[45:18] I'm not gonna do that. That would be a lot. Yeah, it would be a lot. And even like Norus, like so many years is like fallen in the middle of finals week or whatever it is. Um yeah, but you also give me the like there's a lot of FOMO stuff here, like freegan, you're like, if you if you take pomegranates, if you don't uh if you don't drink the juice right away, it sucks.
+
+[45:38] Yeah, yeah. I mean, but like, you know, how many of us can juice the pomegranate like right away? Because we're buying crappy pomegranates here anyway. Right. But you told me yourself that like after five minutes, that pizza's crap and that marg martinis trash.
+
+[45:52] Now I want the real. Now I want the real. Well, you were saying you used to save uh you'd save the pomegranates they could keep, and then the ones with splits, you would do the juice right away to make the uh the molasses. Correct. Yeah.
+
+[46:03] Correct. Um yeah, so you drink it and then you make the molasses because you're just doing piles and piles of it. And it's all done in like it just like obscene community bulk. Like that pot is huge, and it's on like this enormous like wood fire, and somebody's tending to it for like 24 hours because it has to reduce by like over 50%. And then everyone.
+
+[46:27] I'm sure you can scorch it if you're not careful. Yeah, you could scorch it if you're not careful as it gets thicker. Any brands that you recommend as being okay? Uh, for the pomegranate molasses. Yeah.
+
+[46:37] Um, yeah, middle, like Sadaf always does a really good job. Yeah. All right. So now let's get to the yogurt so I don't run out of time on the yogurt. So, you know, again, going back to what you were saying about, you know, uh, you realize that um, you know, the product is not cheap, right?
+
+[46:54] Be uh, not that you're charging just because you can, but you know, you're making it all by hand, you're putting in glass, you're distributing it locally. You also will not make more yogurt. And this is by the way, all right. I need to get to the yogurt. Let's do the yogurt first.
+
+[47:07] We'll do the yogurt. We'll do the yogurt. So you give instructions for making the yogurt the way that you actually do it. Yep. Smaller batch, but the way you actually do it.
+
+[47:16] You're like, don't attempt to make yogurt less than a gallon. You don't like uh machines that make yogurt, correct? Like the old salt in remember that? The little containers, yeah, yeah. Who's we're gonna we can do it this anyway?
+
+[47:28] Like a little cups, yeah. So you're you're anti that. You don't use temperature control. Correct. And in fact, so you're the you know, you're using a lot of retained heat, right?
+
+[47:37] So, you know, you're bat you're roughly speaking, your batch is a gallon, you boil it. We were talking earlier about you boiling milk, you boil it, and then you let it cool down. You do not give a temperature for the milk in the book. This gives me immense agita. And you say into it, which is true, that all of our, you know, pinkies are pretty well calibrated, and you do a pinky test.
+
+[48:01] I believe it's a three-second pinky test. I don't do a pinky test. Generations of humans have done, I'm just sharing what I've learned. This is not mine. Got it.
+
+[48:11] Okay. And it's I I forget the exact words you use, but it's like comfortably for three seconds and it's not a mastochistic test. That's the problem. I know. I don't understand what comfort is.
+
+[48:22] And so, like, I can't, it like, I'm like, uh, honestly, like, I do tests where it's like until it's so painful, you can't keep it in anymore. Like, that's how I work at test because to me, like, that's pretty much that's a more like comfortable. What does comfortable mean? I'm never comfortable. Right.
+
+[48:39] What does it mean? I invite you to be upstairs. All right, so tell me, tell me where this is. So, yeah, I say things like I have a cup of hot water. For those of you that can't see on the Patreon, I have a cup of hot water here.
+
+[48:50] He's gonna make me put my finger in. Yeah, hell yeah. Oh, sadist. No, too hot. Too hot.
+
+[48:56] Yeah. So a hundred. And also, I will point out this is a plastic cup. Okay. And so, like, my body feels that.
+
+[49:04] And so I know that like if I were to inoculate this with like bacteria, it's gonna be different. It's like the temperature dissipates differently. That's why I say glass bowl, ceramic bowl. And then we're gonna put like the blankets over. So it's like the pinky test is important.
+
+[49:22] But then like wrapping it up and letting it like retain its like natural. Yeah, you're gonna be. Yeah, no, no, for sure. No, I'm I'm disagree. You're getting a thermal mass in there, you're heating up the thermal mass with the milk so that it stays at that temperature, and you're wrapping it with a bunch of blankets.
+
+[49:36] Like, I'm with you. But talk about it like it's still milk. Talk about it like it's still like this maternal nutrition that some cow parted with. Like, I I will not, I will not G chat robot this process for us. I won't do it.
+
+[49:53] I just I just need so this is too hot on a second. Yeah. So that's not comfortable anymore. Would you put your baby in that? Oh, that's what comfort is?
+
+[50:03] Well, you know. They didn't let me bathe my kids. It's too hot. That's too hot. It's too hot.
+
+[50:09] All right. Wait, if you're talking like baby bath water comes. Baby bath water. Okay. Okay.
+
+[50:14] So like women. And also notice how like on this one in particular, the top, like I can be okay on the top. But if you go a little bit, like your baby's feet would be boiling. You'd be pissed. Baby.
+
+[50:25] Yeah. No, no amount of fancy pulp food is gonna make up for putting your baby in that. So, like, you know, once the kids could talk, they would just say, Yeah, that's too hot. Yeah. And I'm like, okay.
+
+[50:36] You know what I mean? Oh, see, like, I would have thought that that is I don't know. Yeah. We're still we're 134. Let's see where we are right at the end of the show.
+
+[50:46] You keep telling you tell me when you're close. I want to see where we are, just so that I don't. So I'm sure there's someone out there like me who just gets very anxious without like a number to pin their life. Tell me why. You don't want to get it wrong.
+
+[51:01] Uh you uh I just like your answer also. Okay. What what do you got, Quinn? Well, my issue is I'm not doing it. Oh.
+
+[51:14] I'm telling people what to do. Right, because Quinn Quinn is has to have other people like do the actual physical cooking for him. So he has to then explain to somebody else. And he might not have a personal reference for it. Ah, Quinn has a different need for a temperature than I do.
+
+[51:31] I can't do it. I can't do a picky test. Right. Yeah, it's true. I mean, but I guess in the theory of the book, you could have the person who's doing it do the pinky test, but then you're disconnected from it one point.
+
+[51:44] Right. How do you know if they're right? That's true. That's true, Quinn. We're gonna help you today, Quinn, because I have I have Chris Young's combustion engineering thermometer here, which is the most accurate one I could muster, and a cup of water.
+
+[51:57] I'm gonna get you a number, Quinn. She doesn't have to sign off on it, but we're gonna get you a number. Anyway, I see the validity of both sides. I get No no, it's fair. I, you know, and and to me, I yeah, I I think we lose something about intuitive intelligence when we like when we nail down a temperature in like if you nail down a temperature in this, it's gonna all roughly be the same.
+
+[52:27] So it really doesn't matter, actually. Um, but whether you do it in this bowl or a different bowl or another bowl, like I want, I really want you to know how to do this anywhere you go, um, in any bowl with any milk, which apparently might be suspect given my experience last week. Um, but like if you've taken a bath, if you've comfortably have a heartbeat that has your body temperature at a regular temp, like you can be at one with this milk. Um and I know I sound obnoxious to scientists, and I am I embrace your anxiety. Yeah, so what it is for me is is that like I'm okay doing it that way once I have a gauge.
+
+[53:09] You know, once once I once I once I understand once once we're talking the same language, I'm okay. Like I don't use a thermometer most of the time when I'm cooking, you know. Right. But the thermometer comes first. The the the benchmark comes.
+
+[53:24] It's not the like so like a lot of these recipes, that uh I need to talk get to the listener questions first, but like a lot of these recipes, you read them like, oh my god, I want to taste that. But also I know that if I make it, it's not it might be delicious, but I can't say I've had it because I haven't had the benchmark. Do you know what I'm saying? So like I can make something that's delicious, like like the the meatballs with the pomegranate molasses and the walnuts. I'm like, that sounds delicious.
+
+[53:48] Right. I can make that. Right. Is it gonna be is it gonna, would you like it? Probably not.
+
+[53:54] Yeah, you know what I mean. But I mean, I think this is what's difficult about cooking from a a book in general. Like, I feel like I can like we're doing this human to human, right? And we're gonna get to like some and I'm explaining it and I'm showing, and you're like watching my face and as I'm putting this like same thing with the meatball and the pomegranate. Like, if we were to make that side by side, you would learn so much of like my intuitive techniques of making even the stupid meatballs and the size and like how I stew it and when I stew it, you just learn so much more than I could ever impart, even like for my kids, you know.
+
+[54:28] So you are gonna F it up, but it's it's about almost imparting the stories and and the feelings. And then when, like say you you eat it, like even eating it is gonna inform you on how to make it. Um and what's that dish called again? That's your sister's favorite. Yeah.
+
+[54:47] Yeah. Uh all right, let's get let's get to the uh listener question so that I so that I don't uh but remind me we gotta talk about these ingredients that are mislabeled, like the Iranian shallot. Oh yes. It's just semantics, but yes. But yeah, but people say shallot, and you say it doesn't taste like a shallot isn't a shallot.
+
+[55:04] Don't call it a shallot. Why call it a shallot? It's familiarity and access. Wait, musir musir. Nine one, but that you can buy.
+
+[55:13] Yes. Sadaf online. Okay. All right. Uh from misplaced enthusiasm question.
+
+[55:20] Um my god, it blurred out. Oh my god. Uh Quinn, get the question from Miss Place Enthusiasm up. It blurred out on my printout. All right.
+
+[55:30] Uh again, there was a reference is a raining yogurt issue here. There's a reference to some Reddit post where someone threw out their partner's yogurt collection, and they were wondering if Iranian yogurt would be illegal to import like from Iran. Well, you want to talk about how you got shut down in freaking California? Well, I did get, but like that was California law in terms of bringing things over from Iran. I feel like that's a sanctions question out of my depths.
+
+[56:08] Um, I would say no. But are there other yogurts that are imported that aren't manufactured here on from Iran? No, from anywhere. Like are they are like the yogurts that are quote unquote French, are they actually French or are they from here? I think I actually think most I don't think yogurt gets imported.
+
+[56:28] I think it gets made here. Um I'm I'm I I'm not a hundred percent sure. The sanctions the on the Iranian products is is nuts. We used to get such good stuff for that couple of years in like the fascios. Yeah.
+
+[56:42] Yeah. Yeah. Uh yeah, he he died last year, but uh, you know, Beirush Shafiri used to bring these amazing uh uh sharify, I always forget. Anyway, he used to bring these amazing products in, like these weird, like remember the mana he used to bring Stas. Yep, I do.
+
+[57:00] Beirush was an interesting cat. Biked around, biked everywhere. Um, from FUP Jack, what can I so what was it? So Quinn, was there an answer there? I just wanted to comment on is it possible to comment?
+
+[57:12] Yeah. So, you know, having been having had yogurt, you know, back there and here, if they're having your product, how close is it to the stuff that you would have over there? I think it's it it there's the way we eat it in Iran is so different because we eat it savory, and here I've presented it mostly with fruit on the bottom. And so our preserves are all Iranian, like sour cherry date, quince, um, and orange blossom honey. But when we have yogurt, we eat it uh savory or plain and like very saucy consistency.
+
+[57:46] So we have a Persian yogurt that's not strained, and we douse our food for it. So it's for lunch and dinner that we eat yogurt, rarely ever. Never for breakfast. Now I want this uh the moosir the shallot yogurt. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[57:59] Yeah. Yeah. I want that. I will I will be more than happy to get it for you. Uh FUPJAC writes in, what can I do with leftover whey?
+
+[58:05] I know there's suggestions in yogurt and whey book, and I have it. They've ordered it, it'll be in their hands soon. I'm always looking for more ideas because there's always extra whey. Well, that's the whole book. That's the whole book.
+
+[58:15] But like brining anytime you use buttermilk, you're throwing in whey. Yeah. Why don't you put salt in with the whey when you're using it as brine? Why not salt and because my buttermilk brines have salt in it. Yeah, it's I want to keep the probiotics alive, and I don't want to salt them out.
+
+[58:33] And also, I don't think the salt is necessary at all. Because when I brine the turkey, like sometimes when I salt brine a turkey, those drippings are too salty for me to use. But if I just use a whey brine, those drippings are like very accessible and tangy and like already acidic. I feel like I could sit here and have an in-depth argument on the drippings problem for another two hours. So I will not even start.
+
+[58:59] Uh Jared Johnson, uh my yogurt, which I started from kefir was initially great, but after a while, subsequent batches have a smell a little bit like blue cheese. How do I discourage these organisms that make this flavor? And you talked about this in your in your talk about cultures reusing it too many times. Yeah, so kefir confuses me a little bit because my understanding of kefir and the difference between kefir and and yogurt is that yogurt is with a bacteria starter and kefir is with a fungal starter. Well, ki kefir is a little bit of everything, I think.
+
+[59:38] Yeah, and and uh sh yeah. Um she paused not because she was she was testing the water again for me. I made her test the water while she was talking. Sorry, yeah. Um it's just it's a plastic cup is really throwing me.
+
+[59:52] Yeah, stir for it. You had you had a number though on how how many times you'll reuse it. Oh, but for so for yogurt, I'm gonna leave the kefir part aside. Um but for yogurt using probiotic, bacteria probiotics, I really don't like using it more than 30 times from uh like previous batches. I find the yogurt gets very, very stretchy.
+
+[1:00:15] Um, but if it's turning into blue cheese, that's like uh that's a mold issue. Um and I'm actually not that familiar with kefir fungal grains. So you're saying no matter what, like there's an upper limit. There is enough. It's not like sourdough, or what I've heard of that sourdough.
+
+[1:00:34] Although uh you also like I say, in the book, uh back to Fubjack, basically in this book you're like biscuits uh instead of buttermilk, how about way? And uh pancakes, how about how about how about way? Faux sourdough instead of using spents. I use spent because I have a lot of spent sourdough stuff. How about way instead?
+
+[1:00:50] Right? Yeah, I I do, and it's like so wild because I'm such a traditionalist about the yogurt, but I'm like ceviche with whey, cocktails with way, like really go nuts with this way. Right, but you're using sushi grade because the acidity is not nearly as acidic. It's like magnitude. All right, we still got time, we're still gone.
+
+[1:01:06] Uh what's uh Chaz wants to know what's your favorite mesophilic yogurt culture strain? To buy, I guess. Like what should they buy when they're making their do you I forget, do you give recommendations on what to buy here? Buy plain yogurt and use that as your starter. One that you like, yep, and one that has as many strains.
+
+[1:01:23] Like my yogurt has seven strains of bacteria in it. So but only find a yogurt that has only milk and probiotics and use that as your starter. All right. Any general ideas where your yogurt can be purchased? Uh Manhattan and Brooklyn and at the Eatley in Los Angeles.
+
+[1:01:39] So when you well, well, all right. So when you come into town, uh, you know, look at it, look for it. Yeah. You know? Uh Mark Thomas wants to know how can I get whey without a centrifuge?
+
+[1:01:48] Now I know you hate centrifuges for whey, but our centrifuges that we use don't do it the way that those industrial ones do. They get a very clear whey on top because it literally just, it doesn't, you're not forcing the way through something, the whey is settling out on top. Does that make sense? Are you losing any of the yogurt on the metal whatever? No.
+
+[1:02:05] I've I'd like to see it. I've um we'll do once once we get another batch and we'll come, we'll we'll do one for you. Yeah. Uh we'll do one for you. I like using fabric.
+
+[1:02:14] I think it I think it's good for both the yogurt and the whey. Right. So you should check out the book and some things that we didn't get to talk about uh that I was excited to talk about is this crazy black garlic pickle that you have that's two decades old that you then have a faster way to make it. This is not the black garlic that you guys are thinking about that comes out of Asia where it's cooked for a long time. It's literally like in vinegar for two decades.
+
+[1:02:37] There's a faster way to do it with whey. Is that something I need to taste in my life? The uh the black vinegar, absolutely. What's it called again? Uh torchy sear?
+
+[1:02:45] Sear, yeah, it's just black black vinegar. I need I need that. Yeah. I need that in my life. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[1:02:49] The other two ones are the uh the yogurt uh that is cooked down, and then you make a sauce. What am I losing the name for? Yeah. Yeah. That you need in your life.
+
+[1:03:00] And every form of yogurt you need in your own life. And then when you make that, you use whey, then you super sour it, you mix it, you super sour it, you boil it, it breaks, you get another whey, and then you boil that down into like this like almost like black caramel. Um so you have the cash, which is the solids, and then you have the black brew, I don't know, which I hate, but I had to include it because my cousin loves it and he disowned me. Um but it's very tart and tangy and like and is but you can't make that with normal, but you do have whey caramel in the book. Yes.
+
+[1:03:30] Yeah for sweets. Right, and so I'll leave it on this. I know we don't have time to talk about it, but you literally have limited your yogurt production because you will not make yogurt that you can't find a use for the whey, right? Yeah, I want my whey sales to drive my yogurt. All right, and we're gonna taste as soon as we leave.
+
+[1:03:44] You brought some whey for us to taste. What's the difference? Uh plain and pineapple. Plain and pineapple whey, so you can buy the whey where you can buy the yogurt. And I've been making some good cocktails with the whey because it foams very nicely.
+
+[1:03:54] I've been making simple syrup with your whey, and it foams very, very nicely. Uh obviously we could talk more, maybe we'll do an event together sometime. That would be incredible. Thanks for trying it. Uh thanks for coming on, Homer.
+
+[1:04:05] Appreciate it. Yeah, I would do it. Uh cooking issue. Oh wait, now hundred Fahrenheit, people. Hundred Fahrenheit, we have now removed the soul from the yogurt.
+
+[1:04:14] Cooking ishies.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan at Rockefeller Center, New Stan Studios. Not joined with uh John as usual. He is on vacation. But we do have Joe Hazen in the booth.
+
+[0:24] How you doing? I'm doing great, man. Good to see you. Yeah, Jackie Molecules is sick. So we're down uh a Jackie Molecules.
+
+[0:31] We do have Nastasia the Hammer Lopez in Connecticut land. What's up? Hi. Okay. That's uh sounds uh good.
+
+[0:42] Yeah, yeah. And uh over there in the upper upper west west, Quinn uh from Vancouver Island. How you doing? Hey, I'm good. How are you?
+
+[0:51] Good. Now see, that sounded legit. Not like Connecticut. And uh today's special guest, uh longtime friend and friend of the show, uh John DeBerry, who just wrote a new book called Wait for It. Well, didn't just write it, just publish a new book called Saved by the Bellini.
+
+[1:12] Saved by the Bellini. And uh yeah, if you don't get the reference, then probably you won't get anything it's gonna get saved. That's the filter. You know, if you don't know what their title means, then just buy it anyway. Yeah, buy it anyway, and then uh and then just stop listening.
+
+[1:27] Uh and uh I'm sure I don't Quinn, do we have that one uh at Kitchen Arts and Letters on uh on discount or no? Uh no, unfortunately not. Did they did are are we going to for our Patreon folks? Uh no. Okay.
+
+[1:44] Okay. Well, we can talk to Matt about it next week because Matt Sartwell from Kitchen Arts and Letters is going to be on here next week, and I will ask him uh kind of what's going on. So, uh since last time you were on, John, which was I think it at the old Voldemort network was the last time you were on, right? I mean, I remember calling in from my closet. So it was like 2020.
+
+[2:06] It was probably around the same time my last book came out, which was June. Yeah, the first time live was for Proto. Could have been that, yeah. Yeah. That's true.
+
+[2:14] Okay. But you know, uh, so this is nowadays what we do is is we shoot the breeze for a little while about anything interesting that happened to us last week. And Nastasia's favorite thing to say is nothing. Nothing. Right?
+
+[2:27] Do you have anything this week, Stas? Or is it or is it or is it your favorite again? No, I haven't I have not done anything interesting in the last week. Come on. Okay.
+
+[2:37] It was, I'm not gonna say what she did because I don't know, she wouldn't tell me, but it was her birthday. So happy birthday to Nastasia. Oh, happy birthday. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[2:45] Happy birthday. No. Thank you. No. Um, but I'm not gonna ask you because then you'll get bent at me if I ask you on air.
+
+[2:52] So I won't. Okay. Uh, but what I did send her uh from uh my position for her birthday was we got the new spinzall prototype working. So that's good. You know, so I got this got the snap, got the poetry snaps going from John.
+
+[3:07] Um so it's working, and everyone can expect to see a lot more about that next week, and it's actually working pretty well. I just have to make a couple of changes. So that's good news, right, guys. Yes, it's awesome. Yeah.
+
+[3:22] It's why don't you talk more about it? Well, for those of you that don't know, Booker and Dax, uh the company, which is, you know, uh Quinn and Nastasia and myself at this point was John before he decided to go chefing it up. Uh, you know, we built a centerfuge called the Spinzall that is for bars and restaurants, and uh nobody wanted it because no one knew what to do with it. And then we actually built a market for it so that people we built a market for it, so people really wanted it. And then as soon as we were like, oh, this is gonna be a real business again, the factory changed hands and they stopped the ability to make it, and then we spent the last like three years, Stas, three years trying to get it built again.
+
+[4:03] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so finally the factory's like, okay, we'll build it. And so we're changing like a yeah, yeah.
+
+[4:13] So we're changing a lot of the stuff. Like, for instance, like a bunch of people in Europe and Asia bought not a bunch, some people in Europe and Asia bought them, and then it's fine when they used it, but when they handed it off to their crew, they would plug it directly into 220 and explode it. Oh. And they're real expensive to ship back and forth, right? So that we fixed that problem.
+
+[4:33] So we fixed a lot of those kind of problems, you know. Like, you know, just better all around. It there's an i an old interlock on it that was a solenoid for safety reasons, and people would kind of burn that out. And so now we have a mechanical interlock, which can't be burnt out because it's mechanical. What is the interlock do?
+
+[4:51] So when you well, you know, the old you're just saying that to be nice to me. When you have the centerfuge, the old centrifuge is really so when you when you close a centrifuge, you remember Booker and Dax. When you close the centrifuge, I do, you couldn't open it when it was spinning because you would die. Right. Right.
+
+[5:04] And so even though this is inherently a lot safer because it doesn't have giant, you know, buckets spinning around uh, you know, something that looks like a propeller that could like take your arm off. It's a lot smaller. Still, we don't want you to touch it while it's spinning. Right. Right.
+
+[5:19] So we actually had it physically locked shut when it was spinning, and then it it would wait until it slowed down, you know, and then all of a sudden you could push a button and a solenoid would go ching and then unlock it. And you but it's all it always was a pain in the butt that that interlock. Um it wasn't designed that well because the the company that did it didn't really understand why we wanted it or safety. So this time or safety in general uh so this time around we um built a an actual mechanical thing. It works like it works like it's like a it's like a hex that fits through a plate and so when it's spinning you can't pull it back off because it's like it'll it'll lock yeah it's like trying to put you know a round peg through a hexagonal hole you know and then uh when it stops you just use a little wrench pop it's the action of it spinning is what locks it yeah cool.
+
+[6:08] Yeah that I used to do this um at home when I was like you know nine years old I would hold open the the um the the washing machine and I would turn it to spin cycle and I would find the little button that keeps the that clicks when the door shuts. Yeah yeah I would let the thing go and I'd let it spin in the just put coins in there or whatever it is. Yeah that sounds super fun. Yeah yeah nice and like so it's like that do they I don't remember it's been a long time. Do they have a the S is about to hit the F sensor in them so that they stop walking acr across the room or could could you get it really like Oh I don't know.
+
+[6:42] It never my my my the one of my parents' house never actually went anywhere but it did bang against if it if it went like if it hit the side too hard it would stop. So when I moved out of um when I moved into uh my illegal loft in the 30s this is in ninety ninety seven we moved to an illegal loft in the in the 30s on 38th street nice 20th floor, garment district. Spent the first week and a half scraping gum off the floor inside. Okay. Because it was, you know, legitimate, like all the workers were being horribly exploited.
+
+[7:13] So they're like, I'm just gonna spit the gum out here. Why do I care? You know what I mean? Like poop in the so people used to go poop in the there's a fire stairwell, right? So there was a regular stairwell and then there was a fire stairwell.
+
+[7:29] And because the the companies in the building weren't supplying adequate facilities for their workers, they would just go into the fire rest well, uh uh uh stairwell and pee and poop. So like Amazon. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Basically like Amazon from like if but in the 90s, you know what I mean? So um so much has changed.
+
+[7:47] My one of my great regrets is that one, I I don't do pot or grow it because that place was the perfect place to grow pot. Why? Because uh the sweatshops were still going and they were using immense amounts of steam energy. Oh, so the heat was heat signature was all there anyway, and everyone had all of their windows blacked out anyway, so that their workers wouldn't know what time it was. That's great.
+
+[8:13] Yeah, well, I mean, horrible, but yeah, yeah. But i if you had wanted to be a pot grower, right? It would have been, you know, ideal. All concrete floors, like 10 and a half foot ceilings, like, you know, open, it could have just been like one massive amount of power. Maybe that's actually what they're doing now there because it's legal.
+
+[8:32] So there's probably some tech bro with some yeah, but like can you make as much money now that it's legal? Yeah, I think so. Really? I mean, I don't know. I don't know.
+
+[8:42] Not my not my thing. I guess more people are buying it, so it the you know the revenue, like the the pie gets bigger. Yeah. Are you uh do you are you a uh a pot fan? I do, I am a pot fan.
+
+[8:53] Do you do pot cocktails? Uh not really. I mean, I do. There's like so there's a few legal uh shops that have opened up in there's like unlicensed stores in New York City that have been around for like a year, and then there's like actual literal licensed places that are there's only like three or four in the city, and one is run by housing works, and I got some like a little grapefruit soda. Yeah, it's really good, but I don't like mix with it.
+
+[9:16] Like are you allowed to? Like in other words, can you you can't probably serve probably not in a restaurant? I don't know. I don't know what the rules are. I don't know if there's like a if there's like a SLA for weed.
+
+[9:29] Do you know who would know? It's our friend Don Lee. Probably. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[9:32] He knows all of those things. Yeah, he would know that. And he knows all the workarounds. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[9:35] Um I know they cracked down on CBD, the DOH did a whole C B D thing. Like, why? Isn't it like unregulated? I think it had to do with like the labeling or like had the claims that people were making, and they were like, you couldn't put in something like that. I don't know.
+
+[9:48] There's some sort of weird crackdown where they were like telling you you can't mix C B D into your drinks. All right. Well, whatever. Maybe you couldn't have health claims. I don't know.
+
+[9:56] Anyway, yeah, something like that. So back to this loft and your washing machine story. Uh so we, you know, there was no laundry around there because it was not a residential neighborhood. You know what I mean? Like, and I didn't like it.
+
+[10:07] Ironic for the garment district. Yeah, right. So like you like, I didn't want to walk down to you or walk up to what we know, Proper Hell's Kitchen, you know what I mean, with my laundry. So we got a laundry, you know, like a used like laundry uh washing machine, and um we only had one drain in the entire apartment, and I wasn't allowed to do any real renovation to it because we weren't there legally. So our tub was up on cinder blocks, and I cut into our sink drain and like this is all like 1927 piping too.
+
+[10:36] So like, and I cut into it, so our tub was way up high, a completely unaccessible nightmare, right? And then I just wheeled the washing machine next to it. We kept it on casters, and I would just take the drain thing and stick it right in the bathtub. Yeah. The drain tube right into the bathtub.
+
+[10:52] Only like once it walked, like I'm talking on the casters, and the drain thing pipe came out of the thing and started dumping, dumping water. And Jen and I, my wife, we were out doing something, and below us had just because it was switching when we moved, it's fancy photographer started coming in, and it went all into the dude's studio below us. Right. It's kind of a nightmare. Oh wow.
+
+[11:16] Yeah. Oh well, well, you know, illegal living. Yeah. You know? Get what you pay for.
+
+[11:20] You get what you pay for. Although I don't think he lived there. There was only one other person who lived there full time and a creepy dude in the mechanical like tower like next to us. Super creepy. That's kind of fun.
+
+[11:31] Yeah. Well, that's why, yeah. Do you remember old school New York Fox police locks? No, what's that? So if if you went to an old school loft building, the the guy who sold them died in the 90s to apropos of this.
+
+[11:44] But if you see the old doors where you pull on a central knob and it does the little bars come in, yeah, come in and out. And so we had one. I've installed one. And as and as soon as that thing was closed, I was like, I'm in here. You're not going anywhere.
+
+[11:59] No, yeah. Like, you know, no one wants to kill me badly enough to make it through this door. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so I felt okay.
+
+[12:07] As long as we never answered the door and never answered the telephone. Didn't lose your keys. Didn't lose your keys. If you long, you toast. You're toast.
+
+[12:14] Unless you know someone's inside to let you in, you know. Yeah. Anyway, good times. Illegal living. Uh so do you have anything interesting this week, John?
+
+[12:22] That uh well, this week I had my book came out today. Well, so there's that. Well, okay, but like in the kitchen or like in the kitchen or mixing or foods. Well, I um I'm doing a consulting project out in Brooklyn for this place called Cafe Mars, and we did a I had a little RD session last week, which is very I used to do it all the time from Mofuku. That was like my job, I was going and just make drinks and do menus for for the restaurants, and so I haven't done that a lot recently.
+
+[12:47] So I actually was like behind a bar, like making drinks. And how that's like make the drink, and it's like, oh, let's do a quarter ounce instead of a thing. It's like I was like, wow, so it was very like blast from the past. So how do you like that doing versus versus doing development at your place? Um it's nice to do it with someone, and also it's nice to be the person who just gets to walk away.
+
+[13:11] Be like, boom, yeah, like oh I'm finished. Like, here are your specs, and then you know there's like a restaurant that has to deal with it. Yeah. Well, uh like how many times do you have to go back and and make sure they're not hosing it too bad? I don't know.
+
+[13:23] How how hard do you bulletproof stuff like that? That's a good question. I mean, so I did another I did another consulting gig. Have you heard of this uh restaurant called Ursula in Brooklyn? It's like a Tex Mex kind of a new Mexican burrito breakfast burrito place.
+
+[13:35] Good. It's great, it's amazing. It's this guy, Eric C, who's in anyway. So uh we did a I did a cocktail program for him that was like he didn't want to hire bartenders, so he just wanted to keep all his existing staff from this breakfast burrito place. So we basically did a fully like batched program.
+
+[13:49] With but so so so but it was the regular FOH staff is pouring it from a batch stitch. Okay. So it was so that all pump and dump, straight pumping. Exactly. Yeah, so that was like you know, you just build in all that kind of like you just have your sort of manager expectations around like what kind of you know, bells and whistles you can put in the drink.
+
+[14:05] You know, you're not doing bar spoons, you're not doing you know, fancy stuff. It's just like what is this gonna how is this gonna like batch out and then just be portable and still be really good? So you're like, but then for the something like that, it to me, like my mind is always like they're not going to regularly put their thumb over the bottle and go chung gunk, chung gunk, chung gunk. You know what I mean? Like that, like it you could work your whole life making a great batch drink, and if they're not just gonna like put their thumb and junk.
+
+[14:30] No, they're I mean, they only need to do it a couple of times a shift. How many times a shift do you think they need to do that? Twice, three times a shift, depending on how often they're pouring it. I mean you're just bored. You're just like yeah.
+
+[14:38] Yeah, but see the like I'm natural fidgeter. So for me, everything's gonna get mixed around. Like spin, spin, twist, you know, ling, ming, ming, ming, ming, you know, they're like, you have to stop me from touching things. That's like uh actually it's kind of a problem. My next Booker Index uh lab product is like a batch bottle with a built-in agitator.
+
+[14:53] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Do you remember um I remember uh Southern from uh who is you know doing he was at Booker Index, but he was also doing something at a more amargo. He uh he was like getting hassled. He wanted to keep things uh, you know, not to not stratify in a keg situation.
+
+[15:10] So we actually built a magnetic. Magnet thing, yeah. I heard about that. But there was also because the the the city government was being a pain in the ass about rebottling. Remember when for a minute we thought that the uh that they they were gonna come in and nuke us all for uh for batches.
+
+[15:25] For batches. Yeah. And we were all like, what are we gonna do? What are they gonna do? I'm like, I'm just not gonna worry about it until we get completely hosed, and then it just kind of went away.
+
+[15:34] Well, it was like when everyone was starting to do everything on kegs, like keg G G and Ts, it was like this huge collective crisis that we had to figure out how to like make it agitatable. Yeah, yeah. But I don't even know why that gets you away from it. As long as it's constantly okay, I remember the argument. You ready for this?
+
+[15:48] You ready? Yeah. This is how dumb it was. As long as it's being stirred, it's being made. Yes, that's right.
+
+[15:54] Yeah. That rings a bell. Yeah. Yeah. My argument for like the box.
+
+[15:58] Actively being prepped. Actively being prepped. My argument for our bottles is like I'm making the drink and pouring it into a glass. And here's your glass. Yeah.
+
+[16:08] You know what I mean? It's like. Well, what if what if the recipe includes letting it sit undisturbed for 12 hours? Right. Right.
+
+[16:15] That's my point. Like it's all dumb anyhow. Like, I get that. Okay, so I probably shouldn't say this, but when we opened, I maybe I said it on there already. It doesn't matter.
+
+[16:23] It's like when we opened existing conditions, um, we took over an existing place, and with it came their inventory. Oh, right. A hundred percent watered. Because I had always kind of a hundred percent watered. So I had gone through life thinking that that was something from the past.
+
+[16:40] You know what I mean? And even like the whiskey and stuff? Especially the whiskey. But like anything that costs money was watered. Jeez.
+
+[16:47] And like anything. Oh, like unusable. Unusable. We dumped it all. That's so insane.
+
+[16:54] Yeah. So like I was like, what the hell is this? And I was like, is it me? Am I just a super booze hound? And I and I can't tell what's my broken?
+
+[17:01] Yeah. And so like I poured it for other people. I was like, what do you think about this? And they're like, this tastes like water. Yeah.
+
+[17:05] I'm like, wow. Wow. Yeah, real bad. Wow. Real real bad.
+
+[17:10] Yeah. Anyway, uh, so I see why they have those rules, but like if you're not selling a pour, in other words, they that you should be allowed to put anything into a bottle as long as you're not saying it's something. Like you can't pour someone. You can't misrepresent what you're selling. Right.
+
+[17:25] You can't be like, this is this whiskey, and in fact, it'd be like something else. But like, but like we never did that, obviously. Right. Anyway. Uh Quinn, you got anything interesting this week?
+
+[17:36] Anything? Uh yeah, I made a nice carrot reverto the other day. What does that mean? What does that mean, carrot risotto? Carrot instead of rice or an orange rice?
+
+[17:49] No, like a carrot flavored risotto with rice. Juice. Like vegetable stock. Okay. Um, basically vegetable stock and then a batch of roasted carrot.
+
+[18:02] Some of the roasted carrots got blended and then further strained into the stock. Okay. And then also pieces of the roasted carrots. When you say pieces, like peas and carrot size pieces, I like peas and carrots. Don't even talk nasty about peas and carrots.
+
+[18:21] Cubed cubed little carrot pieces? Pro. Very pro. Yeah. Uh can I tell you something that just reminded me of?
+
+[18:27] You know what doesn't freeze well at all? Like at all? Chicken salad. Horrible. I was thinking frozen peas and carrots works.
+
+[18:37] Yeah. Frozen chicken salad. Is it the chicken? It turns like spongy. That makes sense because the free thing is.
+
+[18:45] It's like that. But the frozen meat's okay. Like steak. Yeah, but once you cook it and then mix it with you cook it, you mix it with the mayonnaise. You can even cook it at whole and do it, but like once you mix it with the mayonnaise and the celery and the onions, no, no coming back from that.
+
+[19:00] No. Yeah. And I know it was a good chicken salad because I ate it and I was like, you know, I'm trying to get ready. You wash off the mayonnaise and put it back in there. Uh no, I wouldn't.
+
+[19:08] But I'm trying to get ready for this whole, you know, not like only cooking for, you know, two people again. And uh I was like, so I'm gonna try to freeze this. Cause one, we're not gonna, you know. Right. Yeah.
+
+[19:19] Anyway, doesn't work. So back to the carrot risotto. How was it? Uh really good. I also cheated a little bit on playing around with umcleotides.
+
+[19:29] You know, um, inosinate and guanolate. Yeah, it's a terrible name, guanolate. It sounds like guarano. Yeah, guano, guar. Guardi, yeah, yeah.
+
+[19:41] Guar's the band, right? Yeah, guar's the band. Yeah. Never listen to uh well spelled differently, Quinn. Guar the band is G W A R.
+
+[19:50] That's true. And guar I uh they're both pretty metal sounding. G-U-A-R is also pretty metal sound. Guar. Do you use guar?
+
+[19:58] Oh no, you just said guarantee. Guar Hey, this is a public service announcement. Anyone out there using guar, please get the flavor free guar. Flavor free guar. Do not buy standard guar.
+
+[20:11] Standard guar tastes bad. Tastes like what? It's like tastes like ground up bean junk, like bad bean junk. You know what I mean? Like no good.
+
+[20:20] Get the flavor free guar. You know what I mean? Tastes like the stuff that guar the band might spray on you in a concert. Okay. Right.
+
+[20:26] Tastes like it tastes you know that taste of uh glycol smoke at a at a at a concert. I kinda like that face. All right, well, maybe you like the regular guar. Maybe. Yeah.
+
+[20:35] All right, cool. So Quinn, back to your saying. You cheated and you added these uh these uh nucleotides and whatnot. Guanalate. Okay.
+
+[20:45] Your words, Quinn. Your words, not mine. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, true.
+
+[20:48] All right. So so uh what happened? Did that jack it up? Yeah, yeah. You know, I'm I'm experimenting with, you know, being very delicate with those sort of things.
+
+[21:01] If I with anything that's supposed to have like a brothy flavor, it really works. Yeah. Anytime someone says delicate the way you did, uh the wicked witch of the west goes directly into my head. These things need to be done delicately. Remember that?
+
+[21:14] Or it breaks the spell. Remember because she's trying to kill Dorothy, but if she just kills her, she doesn't get the shoes back. The Ruby slippers. Is no one here in Wizard of Oz land with me? Son of a God.
+
+[21:27] Alright. I mean I've seen the movie. I just don't have a apparently she was a nice lady. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[21:32] She was also the Maxwell House lady. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. And she almost burned to death doing that sh doing the doing that shoot.
+
+[21:39] Yeah she did. Yeah, yeah. Like legitimately almost burned to death. Yeah. Like there's like the like the movie you see her like burning.
+
+[21:44] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know what I'm gonna say? Worth it. Worth it.
+
+[21:48] I mean like iconic. I mean we all die. There's only one Wizard of Oz. You know what I mean? Original Wizard of Oz.
+
+[21:55] Time is the fire in which we burn. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, uh so do you feel that you overuse the broth machine or uh the uh the uh nucleotides or do you feel like you you hit it on the money there Quinn? No I'm pretty happy with that I though I do I usually I do and this time I just told my dad to add like a little tippy like teaspoon. I should have measured it.
+
+[22:19] Yeah yeah did you say tippy teaspoon? Like the like you know like a like the very tip of a spoon. Wait would you say just would you say just the tip? I maybe Family show your words not mine. Yeah yeah yeah all right all right so uh okay all right and what was the color was it dirty or or orange?
+
+[22:45] Did you saffron it too? Well, it was. No, actually, what I what I pumped the color with was a little tomato paste. Okay. And added some uh added some umami.
+
+[22:58] Yeah. Yeah. All right. All right. Fair.
+
+[23:01] Fair. Uh is does anyone like uh parsnips more than carrots. I think they have their place. I didn't say do they have their place? I didn't say should parsnips be exterminated.
+
+[23:18] I said, does anyone like them more than carrots? No. Yeah, right, Sas. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm talking about.
+
+[23:27] Stas is like, no, because why would you? It's like a parsnip is carrot minus. Like, you know what I mean? It's like, you know what? Like, I'm not in the mood for something that's kind of as good as a carrot.
+
+[23:39] And a little bit or yeah. Yeah, let's go with parsnip. I'm not anti-parsnip, I'm just pro carrot. So what's the benefit of parsnip? Is it easier to grow?
+
+[23:46] I don't know. Less water. I don't know. I don't know. I like a parsnip with my carrots.
+
+[23:51] Okay. When they're uh blended together. Hey, you know, when you buy a lot of those multicolored carrots, a lot of those uh yeah, they're basically flavorless. They might as well be parsnips. Yeah.
+
+[24:03] You just get a CSA box and there you go. Yeah, yeah. Someone's gonna hand you a parsnip. Yeah. I mean, when was the last time you were like, oh, okay.
+
+[24:12] Also, like whatever. I tend to add a little bit of sugar to my veg, like you know, the old way they used to teach us is you know, you salt and sugar with the water, and then you steam it down, pull it and glaze it off, and the sugar kind of caramelizes out. So I always tend to add a little sugar anyway, so why would I want to start with something that is like so neutral? The carrot has like a good amount of sugar in it already, plus carrot flavor. You know, it seems like a win to me.
+
+[24:40] Anyway. Not anti-parsnip. I know someone's gonna be like, parsnips are really, really good. Okay. You know what I mean?
+
+[24:44] All right. How dare you? How dare you? How dare you go against my parsnips? Uh so the subject, uh anyone else uh anything this this uh this week?
+
+[24:57] Anything else we want to talk about before we get into the the meat, the meat of the week. No? I cooked a lot of meat the other day, actually. Yeah. Uh it was my wife's birthday last week.
+
+[25:08] So I did the, but I had to, I had to go, I had to do all the stuff pre-cooked because I had to walk in and do like dinner for 10. I had to walk in at 5 30 and have dinner done by seven. So I did all like pre and like and stuff and then yeah, blasted through it, just like freaking ripped through it. But it's good. I mean, like, you know, my steak is pretty standard at this point.
+
+[25:30] So I didn't do anything interesting to talk to people about. Unfortunately, if you've already heard me say how I make steak a million times, then it's pretty much the same. You know, I bought it though at Albanese. Have you ever been there? Where's that?
+
+[25:40] That's that butcher shop on Elizabeth Street that is like just south of Houston, and it's like has been there for like almost like 80, 100 years, something like that. And it was Mo who was I remember Mo. You remember Mo? Of course I remember Mo. I mean, he eventually died, as like I said, like we all do.
+
+[25:57] As one does. As one does. Uh, and now his granddaughter runs it. So you go in there, and his granddaughter is like, you know, she's the butcher, and it's like it's like you're walking into somebody's like living room kind of, but there's also a meat case. So it's like it's like half living room, half meat case.
+
+[26:14] What kind of living room? Like, you know, there's like a like a chair you can sit in, and she's got like some chotchkis there and like upholstery, like wing chair, like what we were talking about. My memory of it is that, yeah, that it's like, yeah, that it's like, you know, that like chair with the with the yellow kind of like maybe it was fuzzy at one point, upholstery that you can kind of sit in. It's got the two arms, and you're chilling while she's talking to me about the meat that she's gonna sell me, you know, and she has a w cooler in back, and uh, you know, her scale is from like nineteen fifty, and I think it's still legal for trade. I didn't care because I was gonna pay whatever she told me anyway.
+
+[26:49] I don't care. You know what I mean? But it was a good experience. That's nice. Yeah.
+
+[26:52] I should go. Yeah. Uh right. Support some like weird, like small movies. I mean, I've lived in Lurry Side for like fifteen years and I had no idea it existed.
+
+[27:00] Yeah, it's been there. Yeah. But where do you live before that? I don't remember. I lived on Eldridge Street.
+
+[27:04] Oh, okay. Well, by the way, John and I are practically neighbors. We live in we used to be in the same co-op, but there was a fight about you're in the Splinter Co-op. Wait, so you consider yourself the the OG co-op? I mean in the split book.
+
+[27:18] I I consider it unf I wish I was in the splinter co-op because the co-op board is a mess, but well, all co-op boards are nice. Yeah. And our particular neighborhood, so th so basically there is a six-block chunk. Yeah, right, between um between uh yeah, Essex Street in the lower east side and the river. Yeah.
+
+[27:37] And along Grand. And it was all built in the fifties, right? And it was built for the women garment workers union and others. But it was these they were called Mitchell Llamas, and there's these 20 story high right. They first built a lower one called Amalgam.
+
+[27:50] Amalgated. So it's amalgamated bank, it's the same group. Oh, really? Yeah, it's the same guy. Oh, awesome.
+
+[27:55] Anyway, so they so man. Well, so Hillman was the second one, and then yours, East River, and mine, Seward. Yeah. But they were all at one point, not the amalgamated. But the East River was Hillman ever part of us?
+
+[28:06] Yeah. Hillman just broke off from East River like last year or the year before. So all of these co-ops, this entire They had to move the office from Hillman to our building. Really? Yeah, because they got kicked out.
+
+[28:16] They were really bitter about it. Why? They're a whole different vibe. To me, the big thing is that our buildings have lobbies and they're building salobbies outside. Oh, in the in Hillman and Amalgamated, the older ones?
+
+[28:28] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, point is is that this whole neighborhood was one big co-op and then they all split up. So, you know, now we're mortal enemies. Balkanized.
+
+[28:36] Yeah, yeah. Mortal enemies. Yeah. Like the way they do in the Balkans. You know what I mean?
+
+[28:39] Like, yeah, yeah, very much so. Uh anyway. Uh so talk to me about uh talk to me about this book. Uh what to say? Uh basically, um Before you start, yeah.
+
+[28:50] How the hell did this happen? That's kind of what I want to know about. So, first of all, John DeBerry, for those of you that don't know John DeBerry, John DeBerry uh was at PDT, one of the most famous like cocktail renaissance bars. Did you open it? Oh no, but I open I I started within a year of opening.
+
+[29:08] So that's opening. Whatever. Right. So uh before it was big enough for for me just to like waltz in with no experience and just be like, hey. Right.
+
+[29:17] Yeah. And and by the way, the the the people who were there at that time were like Don Lee, John Darragon, who else was there? Jimmy and obviously. Jimmy and yeah, I mean, yeah. Um yeah, that's kind of yeah.
+
+[29:31] And no one else had been like, I'm gonna you're gonna have to walk through a phone booth. I mean, first of all, so many genius decisions in that bar. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, the f the the getting like chefs to like give you products so that you could put out hot dogs at like, you know, infinite margins and like I mean getting fried mayonnaise from WD50 every six days.
+
+[29:52] Yeah, nuts. Come on. I mean, crazy. Anyway, huge, huge influence. Uh, very like for the for those of you that haven't been to New York or for those that are I don't know, 30 this year, like that you can't understand uh you can't really understand uh it was a big deal.
+
+[30:08] What it was like back then. Yeah, it was a big deal. Uh anyway, so from there to uh another tiny restaurant group, uh the Momofuku. Yeah. Tiny.
+
+[30:18] Yeah. Yeah, no one's heard of them, no one's heard of Dave Chang or anything. Under the radar. Under the radar people. So you kinda decided to go into the radar for a while.
+
+[30:24] Yeah. Uh and then while you were doing that, started writing. Kind of, yeah. I was at I was at Momofuku for nine years. Uh so I was the bar director for the group and I opened 10 of their restaurants, um ish.
+
+[30:37] And then uh as I was sort of like, you know, nine years is a long time to do anything. So I was sort of like, hmm, like how long am I gonna do this? Uh a book, a book deal came along. Um that was my first book that came out in 2020. Came out on the day that everyone was posting Black Squares to Instagram.
+
+[30:55] Um that was my pub day. Oh yeah. Um so that was great. Yeah. Um and so that that and that book was more of like, hey, I'm gonna take everything I learned about like teaching people how to make drinks and make it really accessible to people, and very much like, hey, it's not actually that scary.
+
+[31:11] I almost like it's almost like the exact opposite of your book. Uh yeah, yeah. Uh funny. Uh and at the same time you were working on um your you you were doing a a non alcoholic. Yeah, I was developing a non alcoholic drink company.
+
+[31:27] Protect and R I B and oh, it's so hard to make a product. We could talk about it. It's so yeah. It's impossible. Yeah.
+
+[31:34] Especially a product that is consumed that you have to ship around. Yeah, and I I made a heavy, heavy bottle that costs like twenty dollars to ship. Ridiculous. So it was like nuts. Right.
+
+[31:44] So you can sell locally, but then as soon as you try to distribute and it, you know, we had to go direct to consumer because of COVID. So it was like that whole not being on a hand truck and just getting loaded into your bar. And then it turns out that if you personally have to do everything, then uh it sucks. It's a pain in the ass, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[32:04] It sucks. Uh and then also you want to talk about your uh charity work? Yeah. So I started it's actually this this actually started way like before all of this, but in like 2016 or so, um uh Momofuku colleague of mine, uh Alex Pamulia, we she had left at the time, but we were you know what we call her? What?
+
+[32:21] Tara Pamoulier. Tara Pamoulier. I don't even know that doesn't matter. Yeah, yeah. Is what's what's that what opera is that from?
+
+[32:29] I don't know. Okay, anyway. Stas, is that accurate? Yeah, you came up with that. Yeah, I don't know what it's from.
+
+[32:39] Cosy Van Dutino. Anyway, um like I know about opera. What am I doing? Uh uh and we were kind of despairing after the 2016 election, like you know, things are gonna be worse before they get better, and like how are you know, rest people who work in restaurants are so vulnerable as it is. Like, how do we kind of shore up the kind of power of uh workers in the industry?
+
+[32:58] So we came up with the idea of having of creating a community foundation, um, which is basically an organization that raises money and then gives it away. So it's sort of like a fundraising operation at at its core. It does other things, but that's basically the core of it. Um it's called Restaurant Workers Community Foundation. Uh we just had an opening board of people you've definitely heard of, like Southern is on it, Lynette, my husband Michael uh was on it, um, and some other restaurant people and some other nonprofit people were were included as well.
+
+[33:24] And um we launched in 2018 and it was pretty quiet and we didn't expect to do very much. We just thought we'd sort of slowly build and then nothing happened, and then absolutely nothing happened. It affected the restaurant industry in 2020. And so uh so just out of nowhere, people started sending us tons of money because it was like, well, how do we help restaurant workers? How do we support this this community?
+
+[33:44] Um and so in 2020, when everyone was like, Oh, what do I do? How do I, you know, do I do sourdough? I'm me and my husband and uh, you know, our board of all volunteers at the time we didn't have any staff, we were just like cranking money out to other organizations that were doing like direct that were directly interfacing with restaurant workers. So um So you're telling me you made no sourdough. I actually did buy a hundred pounds of uh bread flour by accident from like Balb.
+
+[34:10] Okay. Okay. Well, you know when you you know in like in like April of 2020 when you would like when like Chef's warehouse would do like retail like home delivery. Yeah, and when Amazon was like a week away. Exactly.
+
+[34:21] And then you would so you'd you have your cart, and by the time you got to the checkout, half the things on your cart were gone. Right. Remember that? Yeah, oh yes. So I would just was hedging my bets.
+
+[34:29] I th I I knew I was like, there's no way I'm gonna get both of these. I might as well just get like and I was like, how big could a 50 pound bag be? Like whatever. Yeah. And then they both showed up.
+
+[34:36] So I had like, you know, yeah, the thing over my shoulder, and I had all these cameras in my in my uh in my kitchen that had to get worked through. And people are asking me, like, oh, do you still have the bread? And I'm like, I mean, you still have the flour. I'm like, no, I used to do like six months. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[34:48] I went through it. So I actually did develop a very good power recipe. Oh, there you go. So at the at like was there a moment when it showed up where you were like, can I use this as toilet paper? Because that's the thing, you know, we never knew whether for a little for a little while, it was like that was the thing, TP.
+
+[35:03] True. True. That was never really an issue in our household. But why you have a you have enough space for TP storage? I I don't think we ever had a problem finding it.
+
+[35:11] Yeah. Yeah. I think it was just the first couple of days. It was like, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[35:14] I also like to order a bunch. I ordered a bunch, you know, we have like all these cabinets everywhere that are underneath benches in our living New York City. Yeah, there was a strategic reserve of TP. Oh man. That helps us out.
+
+[35:26] But I guess I didn't think about you could bake flatbread and turn it into emergency toilet paper. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Anyway.
+
+[35:35] So anyway. Uh yeah. So okay, so it comes, you're giving direct uh money to people. So yeah, we're not, but we're we're giving we're we're granting out organization. So like a lot of a lot of like liquor companies sponsor us, like you know, Dave Chang went on Jimmy Kimmel and shouted us out.
+
+[35:46] So a lot of like individual people were giving us money, and so we found the the the best places to give that to, whether they were large national organizations or more local ones that were like directly doing like you know, food and food security or like you know, covering people's medical bills or all sorts of different things that people needed help with being out of work. Um and so that was uh uh a big chunk of my my time in in 2020 uh handling that. Um but and so now I mean we're still here. I mean, I think COVID isn't going anywhere, it's still here, and so I think the restaurant workers still need they needed support in 2016, needed support in 1995, and they still need it now, and so now we have staff, and so we're kind of like gone legit, you know, we sort of proved our our uh our reason to for being, and so now we're just kind of trying to get settle into more like actually having to like ask people for money rather than just sitting back and letting people hand it to us, which was a really you know great great position to be for a couple years, but now it's like okay, well now we're like really really really cranking. So all right.
+
+[36:47] So all of that was to kind of lay the foundation for people who don't know you, who you are. So then you write a book that is called Save by the Bellini and other 90s inspired cocktails. So this is you always like like like fun tongue-in-cheek stuff. Right. But um I'm just gonna go ahead and say it's because people need to people need to check this book out because you're like, oh, it's just like some cocktails that are named after things from the 90s.
+
+[37:15] And while that's true. Sort of. While that's true, you have gone 100% bonkers. Okay. Like I'm not talking about the references.
+
+[37:26] I'm talking like the drinks. You've got you have gone Looney McTunes. Yes. And so like we need to talk about it, but why don't you describe how this book happened? Completely unhinged.
+
+[37:37] And how you have disguised as like I mean, I don't you just can describe the disguise that the book is, and then just some real off-the-wall combos and and ideas in it. So to I mean, is there really I feel like it's mask off? I mean, if you look at it, it's like a it's like a it's a cosmopolitan in a sparsity jacket holding like a Zach Morris phone on the cover of the book. I mean, it's like I'm not trying to like fool anyone here. It's like a Tamagotchi.
+
+[38:04] Uh it's right there on the cover. I mean, it's basically it was the it was the title. And it was the fact that the fact that Saved by the Bellini wasn't taken. So you're like around one day, you're like, so uh what we're gonna do, uh smoking the cigar. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[38:18] You know, save by the bellini. Google it. Is that a book yet? No. Let me call my agent.
+
+[38:24] I mean, more or less. Yeah, that's pretty much what happened. And it was like, I I looked, I looked like the trademark thing. I like I looked like that, like you know, all that stuff, and it wasn't it, it wasn't used, and no one no one has made a save by the bellini bellini before. Oh man.
+
+[38:39] And it was just like too good. And then every and then from there, it just everything fell into place. Cause you just because the my first book, I don't know if you counter this when you were writing liquid intelligence, but like I didn't know what the book was gonna be until I finished writing it. So I was just writing, and I was like, well, well, maybe this will be good. And I ended up cutting like 18,000 words from the manuscript in order to get it into like a real book.
+
+[38:58] And I almost had to rewrite the entire book before I could like actually finish it. It took like at the last second. I was like, oh sh. But this is like I used to sold it right away, right? You didn't you didn't have a proposal.
+
+[39:09] Yeah, and it's sort of like, hey, I'm gonna write a book that's explaining cocktails to people, but based on my experience. But it wasn't like the whole idea and like the in the first book, it's like all about objective deliciousness and like subjective and like you know, drinks have to be appropriate and also structurally sound. That didn't really come about until like literally like the day before my like the final draft was due. Like that, it was like I was about to lose my mind. So this one was like, okay, I'm writing a book about the 90s.
+
+[39:32] I'm gonna pick 60 something 90s things that I love that are like reasonably relatable, and then from that develop drinks that refer to them somehow. Um and either they were based, you know, the you'll well, I'm sure you have some examples because it seems like you've read the book, but like but like you know, sometimes there's like, oh well, like this particular uh reference incorpor like calls to an ingredient, or like this movie, these people drank these things in this movie. So that means like I have to include that in order to make the reference work. So it was very like you know, people always talk about like how like you know, confinement and like restrictions and um like boundaries create like a lot of creativity because you're forced to work within a certain kind of space that you can then be really crazy within that space, so you're not, it's not totally overwhelming. So that was definitely what was happening here, where it was just like, okay, I know I have to make a clueless cocktail that includes Diet Coke and coffee.
+
+[40:27] Yeah. That's how do I know Diet Coke? Yeah. So it does it. So my question is because here's what I think people first of all, two things.
+
+[40:36] One, everyone who was sentient during that time, it has a slightly different 90s, right? So like I was in college and early adulting in the 90s, right? You were in high school in 12 to you're born in 82. 82, late 82. So I was I had turned eight when New Year's happened to from 89 to 90, which is technically still the 80s, but whatever.
+
+[41:06] Uh and then I was uh 20 when so I was like I went from like third grade to college in the decade. So that's like that's like the decade for me. Right. But for instance, Saved by the Bell, I was in college when that came out, or like was about to go to college, and so I wasn't watching it because that would have been because that would be really weird. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[41:25] I mean, imagine a college kid watching Save by the Bell. I mean, now that makes a little sense, but back then, no, no. And speaking of it, you got one of the cast members to write your foreword. Tiffany Thiessen. Yeah, and she's also a food person now.
+
+[41:37] She is. She has a she has a um her her um cookbook that came out already, and she's got one that's coming out in the fall that's all about leftovers. And I love that. I'm like so excited for it, actually. I mean, I I like leftovers, yeah.
+
+[41:50] Uh and uh by the way, uh the screech not related to Mike D. Not related. There's Specie Boys, yeah, not related. They're both named Diamond, but they're not related. I didn't even realize that they were.
+
+[42:02] Not related. No, yeah. Yeah. People used to say that they were related. That's funny.
+
+[42:05] Remember that, Joe? Everyone would say that they were related. Not. I mean, whatever. And you know, rip rip screech.
+
+[42:11] R.I.P. Yeah. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, poor guy. Uh, but yeah, so that's not part of my 90s.
+
+[42:14] Like my 90s, um, you know, to me, the the big switch in the 90s was when everyone started listening to what they called alternative music. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like when Nevermind hit. Oh, yeah.
+
+[42:26] That was like, oh, now everybody listens to this kind of music. Yeah. It was so it was it was so amazing how like big like Nirvana was. Because considering how not poppy. I mean, it would they it was pretty poppy, but it was just like just imagining like that nirvana being like that's like Taylor Swift, you know, if that's how big they were.
+
+[42:45] It was huge. But they and impossible to to like it was just nuts. I remember like listening to like jamming out to Nevermind at like my friend's like fourth grade birthday party. Okay, so as like a you know, a college student, right? Who was in a bunch of like alternative bands, so like all listening to, you know, we were listening to like Fishbone, my guitarist was Dinosaur Jr., like Primus, like all that kind of stuff.
+
+[43:07] You know what I mean? Um, you know, we were listen that's the kind of stuff we were listening to, right? And uh, you know, the people who in high school, you know, had never heard of Jane's addiction, but uh, you know, listened to Steve Winwood all of a sudden. You know, that all like they were like Steve Winwood, like, you know, which I like, you know what I mean? Or like, you know, song Josephine?
+
+[43:27] I don't remember any of that, like all of his like 80s output like have erased it from my head. Yeah, or like you know, fine young cannibals, all that like those those people who were listening to that, all of a sudden, I'm like, what are you doing? That's like what? You know what I mean? It was a weird moment, you know what I mean?
+
+[43:44] It it was good because I think those bands deserve to make a crap ton of money, but I was like, you know. Well, it's just so it goes to show that what if something is good, it transcends genre and you just like can't control it. Maybe. Like good music is just good music. I don't know.
+
+[43:56] Are they just commodified stuff that anyway, whatever, whatever. We'll figure it out. So, like we we come from different 90s, but we fortunately don't have enough time to talk about all of that, all of the new ins and outs, the new in nuances of the 90s. But it's basically you use it as a kind of a it seems like it's giving you license to just kind of be nuts. So, you know, on the one hand, you'll do an apple teeny by literally blending a Granny Smith apple with uh what was that spec again?
+
+[44:24] Blending the Granny Smith apple with lime. With lime. I would have called for like a sorbe or citric acid, but it's like doing that. Yeah. Right.
+
+[44:31] And then straining straining it and then letting the whole thing chill for a couple of hours. Right. So you have that level of bonkers. But then you also have drinks, very, a lot of very spirit forward, like no acid stir drinks, like uh you have one that's like whiskey. Is it whiskey, Aquavit?
+
+[44:51] Oh, yeah. It's the AOL Instant Messenger uh cocktail at A I M. And it's Aquabi, Aqua V Irish whiskey and Midori. Yeah, because you love Midori. You love anything.
+
+[45:00] First of all, like you and Nick, you and Nick Bennett are the are the kings of blue in New York City. Oh, how is he? He's great. Yeah. So you like, you know, I've whatever.
+
+[45:10] You're you like your famous blue drink is the shark. Shark. The shark. You want to give the spec for the shark? I don't remember the spec for the shark.
+
+[45:15] Oh, give me a break. I mean, I remember what the ingredients are. Okay, what are the ingredients? So it's uh butter-infused uh white rum with Ray and Nephew, Frangelico, blue curacao, cream, pineapple, lemon, and uh the bitterman's uh tiki bitters. And the oceans of that at PDT.
+
+[45:31] It's still on the menu. Really? I think so. Yeah. I haven't been in a while, but if I have trouble getting in, I'm like, hey, pass me a menu.
+
+[45:36] And I pass put my license through. I'm like, look, it's me. So uh anyway, so like Midori, Aquavete, and Irish. Actually good? Actually good.
+
+[45:48] I was surprised. I was really relieved. I was really relieved. So what I what I think people need to see because of the because like also some of the you go from being kind of like in terms of money spent for the liquors in this kind of high and low at the same time too. Yeah.
+
+[46:02] Depending. So like and it depends on kind of which recipe you're going to, but these were all tested approved. Yeah, I made them all. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[46:11] And you had and you said in the back that you had like a bunch of people make them. Well, I made that I made it for a bunch of people. Yeah. I had I had some I had some. Because like uh let's talk sometimes you can get a little bit in your own head, you know, when you're making drinks, you know, and you're like, Am I just lazy or is this good?
+
+[46:25] Uh yeah, that's it. So you need to get check, yeah. So a couple things, uh so some of the stuff is like, yeah, I'm gonna throw the apple in the blender as a way to get the apple flavor in, but not have to do a bunch of intervention, right? And strain it out. I'm sure it tastes good because of course and grannies, by the way, self-clarify pretty quickly, and so it's gonna be good, whatever.
+
+[46:42] Uh but let's talk about some of the stranger or the different kind of things. In your uh bellini, right? By the way, uh Stas, you remember that time that we went in the back of house at that event at Chipriani's and they were had the big bladders of peach puree. Oh yeah. Yeah.
+
+[47:01] And they were just like, and I think I was at that event. I've never had a bellini since then, 'cause like seeing the peach puree be like And then them just like dumping that cheapy cheapy cheapy cheap, cheap, cheapy, cheap, cheap, cheap, cheapy prosecco over the top of it. I think I I think I worked at event with you. Yeah, uh maybe. Like downtown, like way downtown.
+
+[47:18] I think, yeah, yeah. We were like, I was just like, uh. Well, you know what I mean? Like goo clarified goop, like uh sorry, carbonated goop is not my carbonated goop is stuff. Yeah.
+
+[47:29] Anyway, your Bellini, didn't you put bananas in it? Yeah, because I white peach puree is hard to find. Yeah. Right. Again, I'm not trying to again, and even I thought my my last book was pretty accessible in terms of ingredients.
+
+[47:41] Even that, or even if I have to do another recipe, you know, I do Food 52 recipes every month. And like I have an ingredient that I think is like reasonable. And people are like, I can't find this. And it's like, so I'm like, okay, what's like, how do I make this so that you can like go to like a 7-Eleven or like the gas station and find these. Oh my god, gas station bellini is your next book.
+
+[47:57] Yeah. And so I thought, like, you know, canned peaches always in season. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's an old video.
+
+[48:04] We used to say that to each other all the time in Booker Index. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so I sort of took that idea of like, well, canned peaches are great, yeah, for them, but they're not that like kind of fresh and puree-y, they're just kind of syrupy and out of honey. Well, also whites have a floral note.
+
+[48:20] So I guess bananas are estery. Exactly. So I just wanted to like um what is it? Like, what's the fancy word for it? But like doctor it somehow to make it sort of kind of read more of like a white peach puree, which actually isn't even white.
+
+[48:32] But I figured like, what's like the what's a really easy like easily findable fresh fruit that you could throw in that would like kind of give you that? And it works? It works. What was the other thing you added? You added another, you had a uh did you add a spice to it?
+
+[48:43] I can't remember. There's another thing that wasn't. There's one more, I think there's one more ingredient in your, it's called uh no ID peach puree or something like that. Like I or like what's it called? Like fake ID peach puree.
+
+[48:53] The fake ID peach. Fake ID peach puree. I shouldn't know this. It's my book, but whatever. Yeah, it doesn't matter.
+
+[48:57] I mean, how are you gonna remember all? How are you gonna remember every turn of uh phrase that you put into a book? Because it's the the entire book is turn of frizz. It's sure, yeah. So you can't possibly remember it all.
+
+[49:05] Although fake ID peach puree, you should remember. Yeah, I like my I my favorite is the heart in the blender or simple syrup. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So six songs. Yeah, because it's just simple syrup.
+
+[49:13] It's a simple syrup, but in a blender, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're like, if you must heat it, you can, but why? But why? Why? So let's talk about the then you do have some flavors that are more complicated than normal, fancier.
+
+[49:25] Let's talk about this. I was kind of intrigued by your ultra grenadine. I love the ultra grenadine which comes up. Yeah, which comes up like uh in at least four, three or four recipes more probably. Yeah.
+
+[49:35] So talk about ultra grenadine. Okay, so here's the thing about like a lot of sub-recipes in cocktail books that I find to be a bit irritating is that you will have a recipe for like a syrup or an infusion or whatever that the yield is like five quarts or whatever or a quart. And then there's one recipe in the book that calls for a half ounce of it. And it's like why am I doing this? Like why I'm I'm not gonna I don't want to ask someone to go through all this trouble to make this ingredient if they're not going to use it a bunch.
+
+[49:58] So I did that for this book where I was like I'm gonna create a bunch of like kind of basically make a meeting pasta for myself where I have like fancy grenadine, fancy honey, simple syrup and a few other things that you can sort of make and have on hand and use them in a few different ways that however you want. So one of them is the ultra grenadine which if you just want to make regular grenadine with pomegranate and sugar, you can and the drinks will work fine. But I did a uh cold infusion of black tea in saffron into the water that you then use that gives it a little bit of a little it makes it fancy like the depth it's like the weird saffron I don't know what the hell saffron tastes like but it's good. Plastic like luxurious plastic it's the best I can super plastic. Yeah.
+
+[50:42] Um and so it creates this really deep really rich like really super like kind of concentrated grenadine flavor that I use in um and you jack the acid too because you put unsweetened crayon, which is as we know, is every like the the the coolest new ingredient of the past 10 years. It's so good. Yeah. Yeah. Um and actually the the fun thing about elder grenadine is that um you know April Watchtel?
+
+[51:02] Yeah, cheeky cocktails. Yeah. She made we did a limited run. Oh yeah. So you can just go out and buy Altra Grenadine.
+
+[51:07] Ah, and they it's called that. It's called that. It's like branded, it's like a whole thing. So she's selling it. It's it's on sale now.
+
+[51:13] And so if you're if you don't even want to make it yourself, you can just order from her. Oh, nice. So it's amazing. It's super fun. Um and then it's a it's uh the recipe that you have opened to is a dark phoenix, which is based on one of the best X-Men storylines ever.
+
+[51:27] I mean, again, I was not during this period consuming that kind of stuff. So yeah, it's it's it was on Saturday morning at like 11 30. So I don't I don't blame you. Um but I actually went on an actual, there's a podcast that does recaps of the of the X-Men animated series, and I went on and talked about the the Dark Phoenix storyline. So are you gonna like do endless ones of those?
+
+[51:48] Like I saw that you got called to like some save by the bell reunion or something like this. No, I went to the I went to 90s con. Um in Hartford, Connecticut. Oh yeah. Oh my god, Hartford.
+
+[51:59] And I I handed copies to Mark Paul Gossler, Mario Lopez, Elizabeth Berkeley, and Alicia Silverstone, and two of the guys from InSync, uh, Chris Kirkpatrick and Joey Fatone, and Jeff Timmins from 98 Degrees, and I handed a copy of uh the book to Thora Burch's like manager because she's in I mentioned her in the Hocus Pocus Cocktail. Oh, you should check out uh JDB. That's what we call John. Check out JDB's uh Instagram account and look. You've not I've never seen a smile on his face as big as those pictures where he's just like all these people in the book.
+
+[52:34] It was like it was nuts. All right. Uh, what else what else do you want to? Oh, here's a strange one. Uh it's prune juice.
+
+[52:41] So this is based on um uh the Whoopi Goldberg character and Wharf uh Wharf, right? Wharf. His that is a warrior drink. Warriors drink. Yeah.
+
+[52:44] Yes. So you want to say what's in this? And it by the way, I actually kind of, even though like the idea of tonic water and prune juice, because of the bubbles and gloop problem, bubbles and gloop is gonna be like my maybe my you know, the book that I write that's published after I die. Do you love it? Do you not like how the bubbly gloop like sticks to the side of the glass?
+
+[53:09] There's yeah, all aspects of it, yeah, I find troubling, but that's fine. It doesn't mean that it's not good. So the like I like troubling. As I've gotten older, I realize that you know, uh, like just because I have a problem with it, it could it's most likely my problem. It's a you problem.
+
+[53:26] It's a me problem. And that's part of growth. That's fine. Yeah, yeah. So why don't you describe this uh all right?
+
+[53:30] So the so Gynan is uh this bartender from Star Trek the Next Generation, like Whippy Goldberg lobbied Gene Roddenberry to be on the show because she was so inspired by Nichelle Nichols, who played Uhura for you know, being like her on the show, uh and make inspiring her to be an actress. And so uh, and I was weirdly not, I don't know, like if I if gyne like made me want to be a bartender, but Gaynan like made me like love bartenders because she was this awesome bartender. So not Isaac. That's too young for it. It's too old.
+
+[54:04] Isaac from the Orvo? No, Isaac from Love Boat. Because I think that that's my generation. Love boat, yeah. No, I love over yeah, what's past.
+
+[54:10] That's old people stuff. Yeah. So um, and so I was being in one of my first interviews I ever did with any press. It was like a New York magazine, like QA or something like that, in like 2010 or something. Person was like, What is your favorite on-screen bartender?
+
+[54:29] And I was like, Gaynan from Next Start to Next Generation. And she was like, I have never heard a person answer that question as quickly as you just did. Um, so that's the level of like where I hold Gaynan in my heart. Um, and at in one episode uh of the show, she uh she's sort of like consoling Wharf, who's this like Klingon, it's a species of people they're very like warrior-like and sort of he's very dour. All the other Klingons are actually like kind of like you like them anyway.
+
+[54:56] And he's like, he's kind of a grumpy pants, and so she gives him a glass of prune juice, and he's like his eyes light up, and he's like, This is a warrior's drink. And so this is gag for the rest of the show where he's like drinking prune juice all the time. Um, and so I figured that there's like there's gotta be a fancy sort of like uh cocktail, you know, alcohol version of that. So uh so I turned it into a cocktail with uh with wine and tonic water. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[55:20] It's like it's like Pinot Noir, prune juice, angle, and tonic. Hell yeah. You know what? It sounds like it's delicious though. Is it though?
+
+[55:28] It is sounds delicious. I wouldn't have put it in the book if it was gross. But what I've yeah, well, what I'm saying is is that like this is what I'm just picking some random recipes out of here to just show that if you get this book, which you know, you should check out this book, it's not just like it's not so a lot of people will write a book and they'll read they'll they'll just relabel some standard beverage with the name of a movie, right? You know what I mean? Yeah, like uh, you know what's really good at that actually the so-and-so mojito.
+
+[55:55] The bet the best one of that is actually the Star Wars cookbooks. Have you seen them? I've seen them, they're really good, but they're basically just relables of regular recipes. Like the Moss Isley taco salad, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean they they they'll gussy it up and make it look like Yoda soda, I think is a little weird, it's got like a sherbet in it.
+
+[56:12] It's a good name. Okay. Anyway, but like this is not that. This is like I was inspired to use these kind of ingredients, and then I made this cocktail that has been tested and I like it. And you know, here's my pedigree to prove that I know what I'm talking about.
+
+[56:24] Yeah. And it's off the rails. Yeah. You know what I mean? So like that's the kind of vibe I get off the book.
+
+[56:29] What's uh I feel like one of my favorites that you'll appreciate is this one. Oh yeah. So I was gonna talk about this. So you make whey, and uh you so we had uh yogurt person last week, Homa Dashtaki on, and you know, she makes whey, and I was actually using her whey in a shaken drinks, right? So you using the whey here, and it's you know, it's got a gold bloom picture and the Tyrannosaurus Rex is gonna drink some and it's a blender drink with whey that you make in it called Life Finds a Way.
+
+[56:58] Life Finds a Way. Uh I actually had a question about this drink because um I know people blend with pineapple all the time, but like I always tend to under ice my blender drinks so that they're not too tall to keep as much backbone in as possible. But the problem of under icing when you're doing something like pineapple or something like whey is that it foams up it gets too frothy. So like is it just that I need to just just suck it up and throw enough ice in the blender? Yeah.
+
+[57:23] Also depends on the ice you have. You know, if you're using like the the larger, like I have the half moons from my ice ice machine, yeah, versus like this cubes or whatever. I feel like it's and also the blender, it's like I I didn't worry about that too much when I was speaking. It just sort of works. I think if you I think it's I think it's it's better to use like more ice than less.
+
+[57:42] It is because it can't froth up as much. So it's whey, it's a boatload of whey, and then rum, creme de cacao, and mango. You're a lunatic. Yeah. You're you're isn't it that crazy.
+
+[57:53] I mean, no, but yeah. I was trying to make something Costa Rican because the island and we gotta get these questions in for you. And uh by the way, uh also I'll say we have two minutes, don't worry. Uh I'll say that uh there's plenty of non-alcoholic uh drinks in here as well. It's like 13% non-alcoholic.
+
+[58:09] I like how you give it as an AV. Something like that. Yeah. Uh Droogie says, For JDB, uh, where would you recommend somebody start learning how to make pear non alcoholic cocktails? Is it easy to get into without having to buy expensive non-alcoholic spirits and the like?
+
+[58:23] Yes, that's a good question. Uh the spirits are great, but they're also they're all very specific, so it's hard to like call for a recipe that works for a lot of them. I would suggest getting a book called Good Drinks by Julia Bainbridge. And it the recipes are a challenging, but it's from an inspiration standpoint, they are great. And then you can sort of get used to that and start to like get the idea of how it works because it's a totally different structural ball game with non alk versus elk.
+
+[58:47] It really is. Yeah. Uh from Delicious Spear, uh, does anyone have experience making floral infusion syrups? I live near several groves of wild plums. The blossoms of which I'd like to turn into a syrup or cordial.
+
+[58:56] I see some recipes call for steeping the flowers first in hot water. A lot of infusions in this book, by the way, including prunes, and then you use the prunes as a garnish. Then adding sugar over bamery while other recipes call for making the simple syrup first and adding the flowers to infuse. Would you expect a difference between these? Are they mostly interchangeable?
+
+[59:11] I I'm passing to you. We'll come back to it because I don't have time to go as a into that as I want. Now, lastly, uh for you know, for you today, Casey High Smith, who's a food historian, you should check out her Instagram. Yeah. It's good.
+
+[59:25] Uh not explicitly cocktail, but I'm curious about the cocktail flavors of wine coolers. I remember my grandparents drinking these in South Texas back when I was a kid in the 90s, probably early 90s, because they were on the down trail in the in the 90s. St. Ides. Well, see, like real wine coolers like Bartle and James, everything in the 90s switched to malt beverages.
+
+[59:41] Right, right. So uh, how did these come to be? So what happened was there was oceans of wine in California in the 80s because there was a huge glut. And uh the California cooler was the first one, and they bought up a bunch of like Thompson Sea Less like grape wine that was stored in tanks and mixed it with fruit and it just exploded. And then because that exploded, then places like Ernest Julia Gallo, which is who made Bartles and James, thank you for your support.
+
+[1:00:07] Remember those guys? Yep. But then by the time you get to the 90s, that that wine glut was gone, and because the taxes increased on wine, everything switched to malt beverage, and then it just became like all these crazy flavors like you have now. Strawberry, which is good. Yeah, it used to just be like wine and some fruit.
+
+[1:00:25] Yeah. But I don't I you know, like, did you ever consume that stuff? Yeah. But it also has a huge negative, a huge negative connotation in the 90s because that's when people started worrying about our, you know, like candy cigarettes and things for kids. You know what I mean?
+
+[1:00:40] And obviously, wine coolers are they're not difficult to drink. They're not not for kids. Yeah, they're not not for kids. But now they're kind of back. Trader Joe's, they basically those things they sell in champagne bottles are wine coolers.
+
+[1:00:50] Yeah, it's true. It is. Yeah. Yeah. You ever try one of those?
+
+[1:00:53] No. Why am I so resistant? I'm also resistant to hard cider. Because I don't I don't believe it's a word. I don't like it's like I don't believe it's a word.
+
+[1:01:03] Like it's a cider or it's just not real. No, but yeah, not hard cider, hard uh seltzer. Oh, yeah, hard seltzers gross. I don't believe it's a thing. I haven't had one that I find delicious yet.
+
+[1:01:12] Yeah. Yeah, there's some bad ones. All right. So next week we have M Matt Sartwell getting your questions for classics in the feed field. Meanwhile, we have this new classic in the field, saved by the Bellini.
+
+[1:01:23] Thanks for coming on, JDB, as usual. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, the Rockefeller Center, Newstand Studios for a Classics in the Field Yeah, special edition with Matt Sarwell from Kitchen Arts and Letters. How are you doing, Matt? I'm well. Thank you for having me back.
+
+[0:26] Oh, we always love it. We got Joe Rock in the panels. How are you doing, Joe Hazen? I'm doing great, man. Yeah, you loving this rainy, rainy, rainy weather?
+
+[0:33] Love it. Love, lerve it. Lerve it. Uh got uh John behind me back from his uh Connecticut staycation. How you doing, John?
+
+[0:41] Doing great, thanks. Let's say you live in New York, it's gnarly a staycation, but it's Connecticut's still your home, yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[0:46] Yeah. All right. And in Connecticut, we have Nastasia the Hammer Lopez on Coastal Connecticut. How you doing? Good, how are you?
+
+[0:53] Doing well. Yeah. And uh, you know, the two the two people on the West Coast, we got, I believe Jack, uh Jackie Molecules, Jack Insley is in Los Angeles. Am I correct? DC this time.
+
+[1:04] Oh, geez, man. I think when are you gonna hold down that lower left corner? I know, I know, I know. Inconsistent. I gotta tell you, that intro you did really brought me back to like 2010 or something.
+
+[1:15] That was real like throwback. You like that? With the classic in the field, with a classic in the field edition. Uh-huh. Yeah.
+
+[1:21] Just a little extra umfin, you know, it was good. Little krapal. Yeah, bring that nice. And uh, and we got Nastas uh we did Nastasia. Oh, we didn't do Quinn.
+
+[1:30] We got Quinn uh up there. He's holding down the uh upper upper left-hand corner there in Vancouver Island. How you doing? I'm good, I'm good. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[1:39] So uh now's the now's the time on the show. We talk about anything interesting in the past week or so that uh maybe from a culinary standpoint. I'll I'll share my two. All right. Uh we are gonna launch, and we mentioned this last week, but I'm just gonna keep mentioning it.
+
+[1:54] We are gonna launch the uh Spinsall campaign for the new Centerfuge Mark II, probably next week, right, Stas? Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah.
+
+[2:04] And I've been uh I've been messing with the prototype, trying to like tweak it here or there, get the weights exactly right. And so uh, yeah, that's what all three of us uh are doing. Can I tell you a little internal argument we're having, Matt? Of course. About the utility, you might have something to say about this about the utility of AI as a helper to generate campaign uh verbiage.
+
+[2:23] What do you think? Uh what I've seen has been really stilted. Uh so I I think you might get like a starting point, but you're gonna have to be in there and rhythm all over it anyway. So it it depends on how you work, but what I've seen is you look at it and you're like, is this AI? What if it just says I like centrifuges?
+
+[2:44] Oh, well then who can argue with it? Yeah, exactly. Uh buy one, buy one now. Sounds like a front page New York Times ad, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[2:51] Well, when you're telling me New York Times now is AI and they're not telling me. Yeah. Bad news there. Did I mention on air that uh um uh Sirious Eats had to send a note to every single contributor saying uh you're not allowed to use AI to write a serious Eats article? No.
+
+[3:09] Yeah. Did they indicate whether they suspected that was happening or they were just a good thing? No, it was right at the beginning. Preemptive, I think, just like so that so that no one would accuse them, I think. I think they needed to come out with a hardcore policy statement, like even before anything had, you know, you know, quote unquote.
+
+[3:25] We are not an aggregator site, because basically that's what AI is just a really good aggregator, right? What I've seen of it, yeah. I mean, I I assuredly don't understand all the details, but I mean it's good for like asking simple questions, but if you want it to be creative, it's not gonna get you there. Yeah, yeah. Well, while while you're gone, do you have any interesting food stories from the past week, or did you enjoy the antiquarian book fair?
+
+[3:44] I didn't go to the antiquarian book fair. My colleague Laura Jackson went on our behalf. She did not come home with uh with anything. The dealers there play at a pretty serious level, and most of the time we're interested in finding books that we can pass along to people for use. And at the antiquarian fair, it's c collecting like prices two to three to five times what we might expect to sell something for.
+
+[4:14] So yeah, we didn't play in that in that ballpark. Also, it there's got to be how long just so you know what I'm not trying to date you, but how long have you been in this kind of in this book deal business? Uh since 19 uh 91. Okay. So, and I remember what it used to be like to buy things back in the pre-internet days, and totally different experience.
+
+[4:35] Yeah, and it's I mean, it's continuing to change, and uh people are finding different ways to put their stuff out there, but um your ability to find a a chunk of gold in a sack of dross is not as good as it used to be, right? I mean it's still out there. I mean, you can still find amazing deals just because people are, you know, overwhelmed by volume. I mean, I have uh former co-worker who who doesn't do search for food books, but you know, he went to an estate sale in Massachusetts and found a signed copy of Fitzgerald's The Side of Paradise for four dollars. Oh, four dollars.
+
+[5:12] So the world still offers up treasures like that. You just have to be uh assiduous about getting out there looking for things, um, and being willing to like open a book up when the person who's selling it hasn't bothered to do that. I find estate sales incredibly depressing. Undeniably so. Yeah.
+
+[5:33] I mean, especially when they're in the person's house. And like, you know. Yeah, I mean, the thing about book collections is that they are often powerfully meaningful to the person who put them together. And unless um there's somebody in the family or very tightly connected who has a similar set of passions, the collection rarely means as much to anyone else as it did to the person who assembles it. Which doesn't mean that you shouldn't put together a collection that you love because it's you know it's your life.
+
+[6:02] You should be having, you know, the books that you want to have. But um sometimes a family is just overwhelmed by something that's highly specialized and they don't know what to do with it. And so it gets dispersed. Um you're gonna you're saying that no one in my family understands that how to make whips is actually the classic in the field on how to do uh plating of whips. That they don't get it.
+
+[6:25] That it's possible, it's possible. You could sit down and have a family discussion, but um it's it's common for us to hear people, you know, somebody comes in and says, Oh, you know, my aunt died and she has this amazing collection of books, and um I'd like to sell it to you. And we look at it, and you know, maybe there are four or five things in there that we have a call for, and the rest of it is ordinary to us, but to that person who put them together, they meant a hell of a lot. And um, teasing apart the things that are gonna be easy to find a home for, and those things which um essentially lost their specific value when the person who collected them died. Um it can be a sort of a tender moment kind of thing, and I don't mean that ironically.
+
+[7:10] It's just you it's part of the uh the way life changes. Speaking of tender, Tully's chicken tenders in upstate New York says they have the best chicken tenders, and I was like, you gotta suck. And they were actually pretty good. Where's Tully's chicken tender? It's a small chain in kind of like upper and usually left hand New York state.
+
+[7:31] Yeah. And they were like, Tully's home of the world. And then a little frog is sorry, uh uh turtle as their little emblem for chicken tenders. And they're like, well, that this it's a family restaurant. Okay, right?
+
+[7:41] Like we're a family show, I guess, which I guess means don't curse when you order. And uh yeah, there they were like, they were like, uh, yeah, home of the world's greatest chicken tenders. And whenever I say anything like that, I'm like, you're a jerk. You haven't been in the whole world. You don't know what you're talking about.
+
+[7:55] And uh Dax, this is when we were we went to uh uh Binghamton to look at was that Binghamton? Yeah, we were at Binghamton to look at their uh school, and uh he was like, These are in fact the best chicken tenders I've ever eaten. I was like, Okay, Dax. Well, you know, not the best in the world, but Dax's favorite sauce was bunk. They didn't give me the right sauce.
+
+[8:15] Now I went I went to the a lady, I'm like, she's like, What sauce do you want? I'm like, I don't know what is like the Tully's sauce. Give me like the Tully, and when I found out later it wasn't what I got. She's like, ranch. I'm like, all right, fine, I'll get the ranch.
+
+[8:28] But like, whatever, man. Like, you know, it's like, let me know. I'm I'm never coming to a Tully's again. Tomorrow I'll be dead. What's the sauce?
+
+[8:35] Tell me what the sauce is. And she wouldn't. Also, it this is my other thing from the past couple of weeks, is I finally had a speedy sandwich in uh Binghamton, New York. You familiar with the Speedy Sandwich? I'm not.
+
+[8:46] All right. So it's a sandwich that's only in Binghamton, New York. You leave, you go without like even like uh like 30 miles. They're gone. Only Binghamton.
+
+[8:58] And it was started, you know, I forget when, a long time ago. Uh, and an Italian guy was coming making like speedini, right? Like uh skewers with lamb originally. And he marinated the bejesus out of them in an acidic, what amounts to Italian dressing. Although I almost got smacked.
+
+[9:15] I was out at a bar at the local like holiday in in with my wife in uh in Binghamton, you know, my son was asleep, we're out at the bar. And uh I was like, isn't the sauce isn't it basically Italian dressing? He's like, yeah, in the way that champagne is basically water. That's what he said to me. Wow, you uh you you found the tender spot.
+
+[9:36] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, going back to tenders. And then he was like, you know, people say it's what they do is it's it's it's just meat. It's like just meat on a hoagie roll. So it's like it's no, there's no cheeses, there's no, there's no nothing, right?
+
+[9:49] So then he's like, people will come and they'll say that it's just like you know, a shish kebab on a roll, and it's not. I'm like, okay. Meanwhile, the bartender is like, it is what you're saying is all true. You know what I mean? And uh, but anyway, so we had it at one of the top, one of the top places, but we had it at the end of the night, so the chicken was a little dry.
+
+[10:11] And they they were out of pork and they didn't have lamb, which apparently lamb is the ur speedy. So they say speedy, but it's based on Spadini. I think so. Okay, but they call it speedy, like like I'm quick, speedy, but it's spelled IE. Okay, but they pronounce it speedy, right?
+
+[10:29] And so they just go plap, they do it on big grill, so it has to have a grill, it has to be marinated marinated for infinity in what amounts to Italian dressing, and then plus, right, right, and then like some people add a little more to it, and some people will butter the roll, but you're supposed to take it off the grill and blap on the roll, and that's it. End of story. Done. And so it's a very unadorned sandwich. In the way that beef on wick is an unadorned sandwich, right?
+
+[10:54] From Buffalo. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[10:56] And it took me about half the sandwich to appreciate it. Because I'm in my mind, I'm adding things to it. I'm like, what if I have sauteed onions? What if I had this? You know what I mean?
+
+[11:05] Anyway. No cheese. No cheese, no sauteed onions, no condiments of any sort, no mustards. No, if you're a ketchupy sort of a person. So that's a powerful marinade.
+
+[11:17] Yeah, yeah. Well, or like, or like I say, it's a little bit of an austere. It's like something that Katie Parla might be eating on the on in one of her, you know, Italian cookbooks. But uh anyway, so that those are those are uh those are my stories. What do you what do you guys got for me?
+
+[11:30] You were on vacation, John. What do you got? Staycation. I had two meals from Joel Gargano's uh market. Oh nice old Saybrook, and they were very, very good.
+
+[11:39] Wait, so we you can sit and eat there, or you mean you got to take home? No, you can sit. I did both. Yeah. Went there for lunch and then did some takeout for dinner and everything.
+
+[11:46] It was quite delicious. Slumming it across the river there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, um there's the there's the there's the lime side of the Connecticut River. And then there's actually old Saybrook is pretty fancy, but if you go to work, but if you go up to Chester, that's more of like a you know a little more humble.
+
+[12:00] Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm not a humble, but it's like more like you know, people that I would hang out with. Yeah, not that I don't hang out with people. I have family in lime anyway. Fine people, I'm sure fine people in line.
+
+[12:09] Yeah, but also made uh I've been toying around with pasta la gricha, I think that's how you pronounce it. Which is uh either the carbonara minus the egg or the cacho a pepe with guanchale, and it was uh it's very good. It's fun to uh to mess around with that. Wait, well, what the hell is carbonara minus the egg? It's just like some some like this.
+
+[12:26] So no, it's then it's just uh black pepper, the cheese and the guanciale and the guanchala fat. Okay, and it doesn't get all gloppy doctors. Yeah, basically. It's another I don't know, traditional Roman pasta dish. Like that word Caccio Pepe always gets me.
+
+[12:43] I can't say it without thinking that it's an absurdity. It's an absurd I don't know. I don't know. Caccio Pepe, it just always sounds dumb to me. I mean, I know it's great, whatever, everyone loves it.
+
+[12:54] Whatever. I'm not saying anything. I I don't speak Italian. It doesn't matter what I think about the sound of the word. It just always gets me.
+
+[12:58] You know what I mean? Yeah, sure. Cachioe peppy. What about you, Jack? I was sick as a dog, which is why I wasn't on the show last week.
+
+[13:08] So I had a rough had a rough go at it this week. A lot of takeout and I mean I tried everything. It's like all the all the things like have spicy soup or like feed the cold with a lot of pro like nothing works. Yeah, you know. No.
+
+[13:22] What's more fun than uh placebo, yeah. What's more fun than being sick when you're away? Well, I was home. Uh I I was home when I was sick. Okay.
+
+[13:32] You were in LA sick. Oh, because I thought it was a I hate being away sick. Like being sick and not having access to your own bathroom. The worst. Oh what I mean.
+
+[13:43] Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to make fun of myself here, the reason I got sick is definitely because I was at a music festival as a grown man, which is something we really I I shouldn't have done.
+
+[14:00] Is that true? Are you not allowed to go to music festivals after a certain age? I don't know. I mean, like Coachella as I'm 37, it was like, ah, do I really want to do this? My girlfriend hadn't been.
+
+[14:11] We love Bjork. Bjork's playing. We're like, I don't try it out. Nastasia has beef with Bjork. Oh, really?
+
+[14:14] Yeah. Why, Stas? Why? Beef with who? Bjork.
+
+[14:25] I don't have beef with her. You looked at her once. You said, dirty sneakers. She's too rich for that. I don't like her.
+
+[14:38] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[14:42] Now you remember? Wow. Now I remember, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's not the kind of thing you can say in front of me and have me forget it.
+
+[14:50] You know what I mean? The irony is that they're probably like, when you're that rich, they're probably like Balenciaga sneakers that are meant to look dirty. You know, they're probably like $500. Oh, like intentionally dirty? Yeah.
+
+[15:03] Yeah. Yeah. Look, they were white. I I I I don't get the whole wearing all white thing, like freaking like wolf or like uh creamer sheet or any of that stuff, because it's always like an invitation to be filthy. And even if you're not filthy, it's basically saying, I'm so rich that like I can throw my clothes away every night.
+
+[15:20] You know what I mean? It's like having a disposable handkerchief as your freaking clothes, I think. I don't know. I don't know, I don't like it. Not my thing.
+
+[15:28] Uh well, what about you, Quinn? You got anything for us? Well, yeah, I did a few things. I actually started some quantile going because I'm getting a little low on my supply. And uh then Sunday we did uh Masienda, masa arena tacos and battered fish with a different massacre.
+
+[15:55] Very good. You know who makes delicious masa battered things is uh Jeremiah and Fabulous at uh Wild Air. They used to do a a squid in a massa harina, like crispy as hell. Oh yeah. So crispy.
+
+[16:08] And they made the squid ink mayonnaise that Booker required me to reverse engineer. And Booker can't. So if you go to like uh Calluccio Brothers in in uh well, I guess that's Brooklyn, and you know, they have like the large size of squid ink, and uh that which is a lifetime supply for a restaurant, Booker can go through it week. Holy cow. Oh yeah.
+
+[16:31] Let me tell you something about squid ink. You think that your stainless steel is stainless until you have to scrub the squid ink and the squid ink, your dishwasher does not automatically get squid ink even off of highly polished uh 304, 316 stainless bowls. It's like you have to scrub that crap off. Like squid ink is just a freaking nightmare. Is it the iodine?
+
+[16:53] I don't know what it is. And Booker was like, it's healthy, and I've said this on the air before. I was like, no one has ever eaten this much, so there is no data. In the same way that that guy who ate like three bags of black licorice, so he switched from red to black and died. You ever heard about this?
+
+[17:08] I have not. Yeah, this is a number of years ago. Uh construction worker, his habit to make it through the day was to eat roughly three sacks of red licorice. And one day or one week, he was like, I'm gonna start doing black dyed. Because no one is supposed to eat that much black licorice, not even the Dutch.
+
+[17:28] You know what I mean? So it was like, yeah, it just didn't work. Anyway, uh cool. All right. Uh did I miss anyone?
+
+[17:36] Anyone, anything, anything, anything, anything? All right. Uh so today, I think we're gonna go in reverse order so that we can talk about not well, not reverse, but let's bring up one of the later questions first. I'm gonna do all the questions first and then we'll talk about our own stuff at the end. That way I don't run out of time without asking people's questions.
+
+[17:53] And uh Will Robinson, uh, you know, we can converse a lot with him on the on the Twitter and whatnot, uh, says this isn't a uh a question as much as a suggestion for conversation. And uh this is something that comes up a lot, and I actually I think about it a lot, especially because we're gonna be talking about books that are older, books that uh, you know, I maybe or you maybe read first 20, 30 years ago. And so uh this isn't a question as much as a suggestion for the conversation. We've been talking a lot on the forum, the Patreon forum. By the way, how are they gonna join the Patreon?
+
+[18:23] Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Yeah, yeah. And you'll get such things as next week on the show. We have uh Andrea Nguyen for uh what's her new book called, uh Evergreen Vietnamese. And she wrote, to the best of my knowledge, the only decent book on tofu since uh shirtleaf's uh book back in the day.
+
+[18:42] Is that am I right about that, Matt? I think that's a pretty good summary. Yeah. Asian tofu, 10 speed press. Yeah, good.
+
+[18:48] I own it. Yes, yeah. I made tofu from that book, and I was sure I would have some miserable failure. And I was like, holy cow, look at this in my own kitchen. Yeah, and definitely a I have nothing against the shirt leaf books because I love them, but a definite relief in tone.
+
+[19:03] Yes. I think that's a really accurate. Andrea's inviting you along. Yeah. She wants you to have a good time.
+
+[19:10] She doesn't want you to necessarily feel like you have to subscribe to the true religion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank God. I mean, love the shirt leaf book, but I'm just saying. Anyway, so she'll be in the studio next week, right, John?
+
+[19:20] Yep. Nice. Uh and her book will be one of the things you get if you join the Patreon is you could get to buy her book uh with the Patreon discount at Kitchen Arts Letters, true. Absolutely. Yeah.
+
+[19:28] It's already there. Is it new? Is it brand new? It's there. And um if you hustle, you will get a signed copy because she's coming to the store to sign copies for us on Thursday.
+
+[19:37] Sweet. You hear that, folks? And I and I believe, is it true that if they order online they can request those copies or no? We'll fill cop all orders with those copies as long as we have them. Uh so yeah, I mean, if if we're saying on the website they're gonna be signed, they'll be signed until we turn that off.
+
+[19:55] Oh, that's like a little just like a function. We try to make it that way. Yeah. All right. So back to Will's.
+
+[20:02] Yeah, which is you know, nightmare. Fallible. Yeah. Uh you know, look, the internet, uh, I love it, but if you can go to the store, go to the store. Yeah, come see us.
+
+[20:11] We always end up talking to people like being on the show, like the conversation ricochet is off to five or six different points, and then suddenly you're pulling out or I'm pulling out a book that none of us knew we'd be talking about when you walked in the door. Yeah, yeah. It's fun. Uh you should go. Uh we've been talking a lot on the Patreon forum about cultural appropriation as pertaining to the culinary world.
+
+[20:34] I'd be interested in hearing Matt's thoughts on the subject. Uh that said if it if it ends up being outside of the scope of the conversation, there's zero pressure to talk about it. But I think it's kind of interesting, especially when we're going to discuss older books, uh, typically more likely in English to be written by people who aren't of the culture they're writing about, etc. etc. So you wanna your take.
+
+[20:55] So I I have actually encountered people who are really interested in subjects, writing about subjects, coming to us, thinking about doing some research and and because they're not from the culture that's in evolved, feeling like maybe they should stay away from it. I don't think that that's um that's a necessary take. Um I can understand stopping for a moment and pausing and and asking yourself some important questions, but I don't think you should not be engaged. So the problem comes when somebody says, and this is true, I you know, whether you're in the culture or out, there is one way that this is done, and this is the best way, and this is the authentic way, and you know, and you attempt to be definitive and to cut other people out of the discussion. And if you are interested in um say a soup that's made only on two islands in the Philippines, and you're not Filipino, and you're looking around and saying, nobody else is writing about this in English.
+
+[21:58] I can't find any material. I'm really interested. I've been there, I've traveled there, I've you know researched how this came about and and how it differs from you know the west coast of the island to the east coast of the island, and you have been pursuing all this, you shouldn't hold back from talking about that because you're not keeping somebody else out of that field by opening up the discussion. And as long as you're not saying, well, I've you know, I know everything there is to know about this, and here's here's the only book you'll ever need, and anybody else who tells you otherwise is wrong. I mean, that kind of attitude doesn't matter whether or not you're in the culture or out of the culture.
+
+[22:38] Um, so sometimes publishers, I think, in their push to make to oversell things will wrap around a book. Those, you know, those phrases like the best ever, the only book that will ever need to be written on this subject. I mean, all those sort of empty baloney uh marketing phrases that don't belong there to begin with. Um that's uh that's the really sort of horrible downside of of tackling that. So as an author, you need to be stepping back from that kind of push.
+
+[23:12] But the as vast as the world is, there is so much that isn't written about. And there are so many ways to write and to get the word out that I don't think people should be holding back. Nice. You also said bologna. Do you enjoy bologna?
+
+[23:27] Uh I wasn't gonna say bologna, but it's a family show. So yeah, I enjoy bologna. I don't think people eat it very much anymore. I haven't, I don't know. I haven't had Maloney, I mean real bologna in a long time.
+
+[23:39] Mortadella. Yeah. Sometimes I just want American bologna. This guy behind me likes it's not really bologna, he likes ring bologna, which is basically a sausage. Ring bologna.
+
+[23:50] Whatever what do they call it in the in the how do you think ring bologna bologna? Yeah, I don't know. But is that a Connecticut thing? No, no, Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania.
+
+[23:59] I like I like 11 in bologna, which is lemon in Pennsylvania, and it's sour. Yeah. It's good. But nothing like bologna. I like old school, like American Oscarmeyer lunch meat bologna style fried sandwich.
+
+[24:13] Really bad bread. Really bad bread. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[24:17] You make it, you go, yo, blap, you hit it, you fry it, it separates into the Pac-Man shape. Man, you're with me, right, John? Yeah. Yeah. Nastasia, I think, hates it.
+
+[24:27] I think that's my memory. Um Ben Wheat wants to know any book recommendations for homebrew liqueurs? I know you have at least one if you like Italian stuff. Uh yeah, I mean, that is uh the only really thing that I can offer right now is a book called Italian liqueurs by um uh Renato, whose last name just went right out of my head. It's on our website.
+
+[24:49] He is um affiliated with Slow Food in Italy. These are uh recipes that are uh collected from home liqueur makers throughout Italy. It is not a systematic scientific remote. No, it is not rigorously uh analytical book. It is um in a way, it's sort of like oral history food uh field work.
+
+[25:14] You went out there and he got these things and he reproduces them. So you have to come to it with um a certain amount of caution uh and your and bring your own rigor for the process. But it uh it gives you a sense of how um uh how many things people will try to make into a liqueur. Yeah. And at the end of almost every recipe, he's like, don't touch it three months.
+
+[25:35] It's like this whole thing like don't touch it. Uh by the way, call in your questions if you're listening live on Patreon too. 917 4101507. That's 917-410-1507. Uh, we have uh from Prince Symbol.
+
+[25:48] Prince Symbol would like to know uh how has your typical customer at the store changed over time? So for us, um, in the 40 years that we've been open, which this is our 40th anniversary year. So uh gonna be making some noise about that coming up this fall. Um our customer has become more specifically interested in certain things rather than um a generalist. We have some sections in the store have declined, like books on entertaining.
+
+[26:20] Used to be hugely popular. Those people aren't coming to us right now. Because those are the people that just look it up on all recipes? Or, you know, they just want a pretty table setting. So they can look on Instagram and get ideas for that.
+
+[26:33] I mean, there are all kinds of resources for for people with those interests. But we have found that the more we can burrow in on something, the more we can find something that's very specific, the happier it will make our customers. So I just brought in a book from Ireland on soda bread. Uh in which uh a woman who who's doing performance pieces went around Dublin and Cork and interviewed people about what is soda bread? What's your recipe for it?
+
+[27:03] And some people are like, I buy it. And other people wrote out recipes for her and they shared them with her. So she's reproducing the conversations on the recipes. And she only printed 200 copies. Um I bought a quarter of them.
+
+[27:18] Nice. And I've sold half of them already. And it's that kind of like um really sharp, focused, you know, maybe there will only be one book like this ever, but it's great for people who are interested to find that book. So um there's more of that for us, is that that quirkiness, that that specificity. Yeah, now I'm intrigued about this freaking soda bread book.
+
+[27:44] You ruined me. Every time I talk to you, now like in my mind, I'm like, okay. So I wonder when I wonder when that came to be like a a cultural thing. It had to be sometime in like the 18 like sometime in the 1800s when that stuff became popular, like the the alternate leavenings, right? Yes.
+
+[28:01] I that would be my assumption. That's not really explored here. This is just like if it's a very personal series of recollections. And I wonder what the connection is between, for instance, like famous, like Irish, like uh uh chemically leavened breads and like Damper from Australia, right? Like Reg Absalom's book.
+
+[28:19] Is that his name? The guy who wrote the outdoor cooking book in South in uh Australia and the outback cuisine. Amazing book. Or like American quick stuff. But of course, those books are great.
+
+[28:28] Those like old, like, you know, leavening books are great here. Like, what is it called? The Royal Baking Book was one. I forget. I wasn't, I didn't come expecting to talk about artificial leavening.
+
+[28:39] I didn't either. Yeah. Anyway, now you got me, uh, how much is that book? $40. Yeah.
+
+[28:46] All right. All right. Uh I can't, I can't. My wife is like, no books. What?
+
+[28:51] I I always admired your wife. What happened? Uh, it's just my house is full. Back when I back when I had a place, like, like literally, if you open any door in my house, behind it is either a book or some form of cooking implement. And as an architect, she can't tolerate the intense kind of just non-organization.
+
+[29:19] Like, I know where most of my books are, but like I had a I've now gotten in the habit if I have a particularly precious book that I feel only belongs to one, like, there's I meet the person, and I'm like, you must own this book. I will give it to them if I don't absolutely need it. There's a book, I forget the title of it now, but it's I think it's called uh Some of Our Trees. And it was written by uh a fellow in Ohio, and it's the book from like 1920s on like trees in Ohio. And a friend of ours is moving to Ohio.
+
+[29:53] Is like, I have the book you need to have. But then when I get picked it up to look at it, I was like, I can't get rid of this book. I'm like, but you have to own it. You know what I mean? Bought it at that.
+
+[29:59] You know that you ever there's a if you ever go to Provincetown people, there's a little cute little used bookstore. You have to spend a long time, but they have some gems. That's where I got that one. I've I remember that because I if you buy a used book at a bookstore, keep the receipt in the book so that 15 years later, when you're leafing through the book, you can see where you got it. You think that's a good idea?
+
+[30:23] Uh, in most cases, watch out for what the the kind of paper that it's printed on. Some receipt paper is high acid and it will stain the pages, or depending on how long it sits there. Keep it behind in the cover, but I I just like to know where things are from. Put it in an envelope and then put it in the book. All right.
+
+[30:39] But we've we have found old books with newspaper clippings in them, and the clippings have eaten through pages. Ooh. The acid is that's no good. So I mean, your register tape isn't likely to eat through the page, but it can discolor the book. Yeah.
+
+[30:52] Yeah. Do you like it when you find a book and someone's pressed a flower into it? I love that. Yeah, or just little notes that people have left inside. I mean, sometimes it's a receipt, sometimes it's uh a recipe that they pulled out of something else.
+
+[31:05] I think it uh it just makes the book feel like um its history is stronger. Do you personally bring your books into the kitchen or never? I never do. My books go in the kitchen. My books go in the kitchen.
+
+[31:19] Um I think I asked you this one of the times you were on, but yeah. You can pull my book off the shelf and it falls open to pages and they're dirty. And I'm I'm just I'm not tidy. Yeah, yeah. Read it, get your ideas, and then go into the kitchen.
+
+[31:33] That's what I do. I read, get anyway, whatever. Uh, from the great state of New Jersey. Unspecified where. Okay.
+
+[31:39] Uh, I'm struggling to find a book with a good thorough overview of Japanese cooking for a decent home cook but novice to Japanese cooking. Would love any recommendations. Is Japanese cooking a simple art still the go-to, or is it been superseded? Japanese cooking the simple art is a really deep dive. And um for somebody who's strongly interested in classic Japanese cooking, I would say it is a lifetime book.
+
+[32:03] It will stay useful for many, many years. It can be a little daunting to start with. And it isn't always necessarily true that you want to go that deep. So I would probably suggest Elizabeth Andos Washoku, which is uh home cooking. She's an American woman who married into a Japanese family.
+
+[32:21] These are the recipes that she learned from her mother-in-law, from her neighbors, and it is really Japanese home weeknight cooking. Um so it has good information on making things like dashi and the kinds of staple items that a Japanese cook would expect to have at home, but it's not um not as rigorous as the Suji Japanese cooking of simple art. And it has photographs which can also help people sort of take the plunge. On the on the Japanese cooking of simple art, is there much difference between the original edition and the one that came out like in 2014 or whatever? Uh other than the addition of a foreword, no.
+
+[32:59] No. No. Yeah. Uh whichever one you find is a good one to buy. Especially what can what's conven conven conventional?
+
+[33:14] I think conventional. Conventional sweets. So what, like egg tarts, you mean? That was my guess from the quote. I mean, I'm the only person who doesn't love egg tarts, by the way.
+
+[33:23] I think they're fine. Huh. And by the way, Portuguese language is is uh okay. Or Portuguese cooking in general. It's probably English, whatever language doesn't matter.
+
+[33:32] You love egg tarts? I don't think I love them. I you know, if somebody gives me one, I'm thinking, oh, thank you. But I'd say now, people go crazy. I won't go out of my way for that for an egg tart.
+
+[33:40] It's the cannel of today. People get I also don't go crazy for them. I think they're fine. What? I think they're fine.
+
+[33:47] Jeez. I don't wait. I don't look if you if you put me in a car, right? And you're like, you need to drive 50 miles to get this cheese, or 15 miles to get this cannelée, I will go 50 miles to get the cheese. Okay.
+
+[34:05] And if you said you have to go 50 miles to get this cheese or walk three blocks and get this awesome egg tart, I will go 50 miles and get the cheese. Jeez. It's it's good to know where you stand in the world. I think that other people think that they're great, and I'm not about to say that they're not great for many people. I just I had a bad experience in Hong Kong.
+
+[34:28] My mouth got burned to smithereens by an egg tart that was virtually flavorless, other than the intense heat of it scorching the roof of my mouth and having two hot pizza style mouth drippings, like coming down like stalag freaking tights for the next couple of days. And ever since I'm like, I'm like, egg tarts, no, thank you. You know what I mean? Anyway, that's me though. Uh I have an update about that question.
+
+[34:51] Conventual, because they were originally made by convent. Convent style. Well, that only makes it harder, unfortunately. Um I've seen very little um I don't know anything in English on Portuguese baking. Um we carried for a brief time a book called uh Fabrico Proprio, uh which was published in Brazil, but about uh Portuguese uh what it called industrial baking, which meant small-scale artisan bake shops in Lisbon.
+
+[35:28] Um and that was really more of an appreciation. It did not have recipes, it was photographs of pastry case after pastry case after pastry case. Um so this is a big hole. Um my knowledge of Portuguese is poor enough that there may be amazing things published in Portugal that I don't know about. Um I have to say I'm outside my my expertise there.
+
+[35:53] But um the standard good, reliable cookbooks in English on Portuguese food just don't go into any depth um on baked goods, to be honest. I mean uh David Leeds uh book or um you know when uh George Mendez's book was around. I mean, they had a few nice things, but it wasn't a it wasn't a deep dive. And and I haven't seen that. And if somebody is out there thinking I understand Portuguese baking better than the average Joe, maybe I should do a book.
+
+[36:28] I think there could be an opportunity there. Yeah. If you come to it with a with a skill set to begin with. Yeah. I mean, uh not even like Portuguese American stuff.
+
+[36:37] Does no one's written those books like uh baking and the and the like there have been like little, you know, like church fundraising books and things like that. But I think Brollo recipe or whatnot. Didn't George Mendes come out with his Portuguese, right? Yeah, yeah, but uh my Portugal is unfortunately no uh no longer available. Yeah.
+
+[36:55] Yeah. Uh what about books on convent cooking? I never even thought about that. Um I've seen a couple of books in Spanish on Mexican convent cooking. Um, again, small distribution within Mexico.
+
+[37:09] Um it doesn't surprise me that somebody might ask that question about Portugal, but I've not seen it. Uh and I certainly haven't seen anything. I'm not aware of anything in English. Monastic cookbooks, yes, right. Those have been pretty scant too, and they often tend to be um recent books by like somebody says, oh, let's, you know, we've got a convent, we've got a monastery, which may or may not be Catholic.
+
+[37:36] I mean, sometimes there are sort of lay monasteries. Um it's always been slightly mysterious to me that people would be really interested in the food of people who are supposed to leave a life of you know absolution. That's just funny. My stepfather, when he was at uh Columbia University, uh for the first couple of years lived in a place called Skylar Hall, which was run by Opus Day, which is a Catholic blah blah blah. And uh they used to have uh these incredible meals cooked and have the their favorite fruits brought in front of them, and then they would send it away as part of their mortification.
+
+[38:17] How bizarre is that that seems I mean, I hope that they ended up going to somebody. I don't know. This was the early 70s. It seems rather ostentatious. Yeah, well, it's Opus Day.
+
+[38:29] You know what I mean? They're like, I'm gonna put this luxury in front of me. And then, and yeah, they also they you know, they had the the Silla, the wire, and the you know the self-flagellation. They were doing the whole self-mortification thing. But it always seemed very bizarre to me that you would waste something just to deny yourself, right?
+
+[38:47] I mean, they had to have given it to somebody. I hope so. Yeah, I mean, now that I think about it, there's a um a book called Bitter Almonds by uh Mary Grammatico and Mary Taylor Semeti, Maria Grammatico and Mary Taylor Semedi, uh, which is about the baking that Grammatico learned um in a convent in Sicily. Um, so it's not Portugal, unfortunately. Um, and that's partly a memoir, but it does have um some specialized baked goods that uh that she was taught there.
+
+[39:17] The the young women at the convent who were there as orphans, um, had to learn to bake to help support the convent. Um what's the name of the book again? Bitter Almonds. That sounds like a good book. Published about, I would say 1995.
+
+[39:31] Um, I would pretty much pick up anything that Mary Taylor Semeti has written, but that one is probably closest to what would answer the question here. And I know from Mexico that there are some convent suites in um My Suite Mexico by Fanny Gerson. Oh, nice. She has a few things there. I haven't seen her in a long time.
+
+[39:51] That's a great book. It's just and it and it's an example of how there are so many opportunities to to get specific in areas that get overlooked. Yeah. Uh for all you aspiring writers out there. Yeah.
+
+[40:07] Um, see, Michael JK wants to know what are says hello first. Uh, what are some good resources for using a pressure cooker? After finally getting my own place and hearing you mention Coon Recon many times, I bought a few of their Duramatic pieces on eBay. It came with a manual uh with basic functionality, but I'm looking for a good reference book to Mike go over different principles of using a pressure cooker versus non-pressure methods. If I Google an item followed by the words pressure cooker, I get endless results for Instapot recipes.
+
+[40:32] Would these apply the same? Is there a good resource you could point me to? Well, I'll I'll I'll just say this. Uh Instapot recipes are written for a lower pressure than your Coon Recon will do, so the timing will be different. Um I don't know.
+
+[40:43] What do you what do you got, Matt? All I know is the just reading all the Lorna Sass books. That's all I know. Or hit pressure cooking. Um I think Lorna Sass is a great resource.
+
+[40:52] Unfortunately, none of her books are in print anymore. Uh uh, but uh, you know, if you're out there looking on the used market, cooking under pressure, uh would be a great place to start. Which is not the not the what's his name book, not the Keller book. Under that's just under pressure. You know, Lorna's is cooking under pressure.
+
+[41:10] Yeah, yeah. And Keller's not sous vide, yes. Yeah. Dumb name for that book. I dumb name for that book.
+
+[41:16] The world contains mysteries that are inaccessible to me. Um stupid. But the uh uh yeah, the the popularity of the instant pot has sort of chased out almost anything else related at the moment, and I'm not aware of that's a genius name, Instant Pot. And it's not instant. It's kind of a pot.
+
+[41:40] So it's like, it's like uh, you know, but like that's what people that's why you know Maria Guarneschelle was such a freaking genius because she was willing to say on the cover of a book the thing that would make it sell, right? Like Leahy's book, No Work, No Need Bread. Obviously, there's work. You know what I mean? Like, but yeah, anyway.
+
+[42:01] Instant. It's instant, Matt. I don't know if you know that about this pot. It's instant. I have I have never touched one.
+
+[42:07] Really? I don't own one either. I used to have the, yeah, I used to have the Queensnard electric pressure cooker. I modified that. They all run at a lower pressure than the Coon Recon does.
+
+[42:14] And I don't know, I guess it's convenient. I like uh if you're fortunate enough to have a decent induction burner, like using a regular pressure cooker is nice because you can do a lot of stuff that way without having to worry about scorching. Uh hip pressure cooking, is that still around or no? That came out in 20, I don't know, 15, 16, something like this. Remember that?
+
+[42:38] I don't. I'm trying to recall it. I can't hit pressure cooking. She had a blog whose name is out of my head. Uh her name just went out of my head crazy because it would have been in my head like 20 minutes ago.
+
+[42:49] And then yeah, she wrote a book on pressure cooking. No one's yet written a book, as far as I know, that uh includes like all the technical aspects of it. Like um really what needs to be done, I was working on it a little bit, but it's a pain in the butt is figuring out exactly kind of how the time constants change for different uh foods because different compounds of interest like uh collagen and whatnot break down at um different rates, vastly different rates depending on pressure. And so you should be able to just apply multipliers to certain kinds of uh things and and we all kind of just do it by mental, you know, mental mental thought. And then there's like, you know, you need to make the allium correction because all the sulfur containing things like garlic and onions, like they get tamped way, way, way down.
+
+[43:36] So you have to do things like if you really want a lot of that garlic flavor, you have to open it after you add it. You know what I mean? A lot of moisture management and pressure cooking. I've been writing about pressure cooking for my moisture management book just for that reason, but it's not a pressure cooker book. Anyway, sorry we couldn't help you more, Michael.
+
+[43:54] Anyway, uh I feel like we I feel like we let Michael, or maybe this is the world has been let's the publishing world let him down. It wasn't us. It wasn't us. Yeah, you're you're you're pushing him in the right direction. You're making good things happen for him.
+
+[43:59] All right. Fuckjack says, hey, what's a good book that talks about sugar types and how to handle them? I noticed Quinn's gelato obsession book talks about the relative sweetness a bit, but I'm interested in learning more about things like controlling water activity or texture. And before you and Quinn go on this, I have to say, I do not bel anytime someone says that they know what the relative sweetness of something is, I don't believe it. I just simply don't believe it.
+
+[44:28] I think it's all based on crap data. It's all based on like what does that even mean? Because things can have different relative sweetnesses depending on the concentration. It can be concentration dependent and temperature dependent and medium-dependent. So the same thing with like relative acidity.
+
+[44:43] To me, these are too complicated to just talk talk about that way. But anyway, that's all I'll say about that sugar. Uh well, people do love to quantify. It's always an effort. So um it wasn't clear from the context of this question whether this was specific to gelato.
+
+[44:57] I mean, I hear Quinn and I think gelato, so I um I sort of went in that direction. Um it's almost always the case that that this topic is discussed in uh a context of a specific environment or goal. And we just picked up a book, uh, brought in a book called uh minus 12 degrees centigrade, gelato, uh, which is put together by a um a Belgian and a Dutchman. And uh it has a section on uh different types of sugar and their behavior specific to gelato. Um it has uh a what do they call it?
+
+[45:41] An anti a measurement of their anti-freezing power. Yeah, yeah. Quinn loves that. You know, right, Quinn? You're a big anti free, you're a big like uh lactose anti-freeze ability and uh using uh glucose.
+
+[45:52] You love it, you love an alternative sugar, am I correct, Quinn? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So uh this is a the book has a slight limit in that they are they've imported their uh some French language abbreviations uh and not translated them to English, but so they do talk about the relative sweetness of different types of of sugars. Um but they go sucrose, dextrose, glucose syrups, maltodextrins, which they say are mixtures, and so they can't be uniformly addressed. Right.
+
+[46:23] Invert sugars, fructose, honey, um, and uh they lactose. Trahalos? Yeah. Okay. I never pronounced that stuff out loud.
+
+[46:35] What do you guys think of allulose? Oh, I don't know much about that. I believe it's the sugar that's derived that comes from raisins and I think another type of dried fruit. Um it's very expensive, but quite delicious. Yeah?
+
+[46:48] Yeah. I mean, I like raisins. I think I think it might be day, is it day or prune? No, it's it's it's it's the sugar from prunes. I love prunes.
+
+[46:57] And um and raisins, yeah. I like raisins. I love prunes. Because prunes are delicious. I agree.
+
+[47:04] I think they should be nature's candy. I think raisins can go hang and prune should be nature's candy. Prunes, listen, I'm gonna offend some people here. Prunes taste better than raisins. Raisins are delicious.
+
+[47:14] Prunes better. You uh John, you you a fan of those uh those French prunes, those high, those high grade, what are those, and you're whatever they're called? I don't know if I've had those. I forgot the name of it. Starts in A.
+
+[47:26] Not Lamb. They're not lamb prunes. But like uh like something, but like they's this Doginho, there's some there's some French prune, high grade, real moist. Prunes are so good. I love a prune.
+
+[47:38] You don't need to inject them with uh, you know, Barbara Mandrell, I believe it was, used to hawk fruit essence pitted prunes, where the Sunsuite Corporation would inject lemon and orange essence into prunes. Unnecessary gilding of the lily, in my opinion. The prune can stand on its own. Yeah, but the lemon injected ones are delicious. I do love those.
+
+[47:57] Yeah, yes, they are delicious. I have not tried them. I will give them a chance. You know, sometimes I'll put my foot down and I just won't even get into it. I won't even get into it.
+
+[48:05] I'll be like, I don't need that in my life, but if you're telling me it's good, Joe, I will try the lemon essence. Stay away from the orange, try the lemon, is what you're telling me. I didn't love the orange. Okay. What are your thoughts on flavored Milanos?
+
+[48:19] I like the mint. Really? That one, yeah, it's good. I like a plain Milano. I mean, that's good too.
+
+[48:25] Only mint for me. Oh my God, Matt. I I have not had a Milano in 25 years. You must rectify this. That is that is the pepperage, that is the pepperage farm cookie of merit, in my opinion.
+
+[48:39] I see. Okay. I am like if if you're a pepper farm cookie person growing up, to me, that's the cookie. Are you a sausalito guy? That's later.
+
+[48:47] That's like that's like Nouveau Pepperage Farm in my world. Yeah, well, that's definitely a later. Yeah, those sort of the the bigger, chunky. You're not a chessman person, are you? What is your pepperic farm cookie, Matt?
+
+[48:58] My mother didn't buy cookies. Uh, okay. We weren't, that was like, yeah, we couldn't have those in the house. What about the Brussels? Is it the Brussels Russell?
+
+[49:06] Oh, I think I remember what you're talking about. That's like the and the cookies gets it's kind of sticky and kind of gets into the corners of your teeth. I think I remember the one you're talking about. What's your what's your what's your Girl Scout cookie, Joe? I mean the mint.
+
+[49:19] I mean, anything mint for me is a is a I I have to have. Samoas, man. Yes. Um is a good coconut? Is that the coconut one?
+
+[49:26] Yeah, Samoas. Yeah, come on. Oh, Samoas are the answer, yeah. Yeah. Samoas.
+
+[49:32] Well, didn't uh I just talked about something about the um the Girl Scout cookies came with some type of limited edition cookie that's going for like $50 a box. And who gets the money? The Girl Scouts or the Interbait Corporation? What's in it? Like THC or I mean I don't I highly doubt that.
+
+[49:50] That would be something. That would be something. Uh all right. Yeah, their raspberry rally. That's the sold-out one that's on resale market.
+
+[50:00] That's doesn't sound great to me. Hey, I had this idea for like what if I was talking to Miley, who's gotta come on the show. Miley Carpenter, my sister-in-law. What if someone did an American Linzer tort where it was a peanut butter cookie with the grape with the grape instead of the raspberry and the almonds, the peanut butter and the grape? That would be a sick cookie.
+
+[50:23] Yeah, I want that right now. I want my P B and J Linser tort right now. Anyway. And they're never gonna make it there because they don't have respect for grape jelly or for peanuts. They're never gonna make it.
+
+[50:36] It's never gonna happen if we leave it to those lousy Europeans. No offense. You know? Um You could call it what's what's the French word? Aquahate.
+
+[50:44] It's uh starting to show up in all the French pastry books. The peanuts are. Oh caca what and they hate it. They say it with such disdain. Birth de cacao it.
+
+[50:57] American. You know what I mean? Like that, but that's not the way they talk. Okay. Start a Bart Fast.
+
+[50:59] Ooh, Slardabart Fast. What are your best tools and methods for managing a large cookbook collection? I catalogue with library thing, but I'm struggling with physical books piles and piles. Been considering using half price books organization uh system. Matt, what do you think?
+
+[51:16] So I'm not familiar with uh with either of these. Um I mean, I know that they exist, but I I haven't used them and I don't have any experience with them. Um the organization of your library needs only to work for you. Um it doesn't really have to work for anybody else. So you shouldn't be, you know, as you're thinking about how you're gonna shelve your books, hopefully you have the shelf space for them.
+
+[51:40] Uh you don't want to worry about what somebody else is gonna say if they come into your house and looks at your books. I mean, if you can, you know, if you want them all alphabetical by author, if you want them uh by subject, by theme. By color is not valid though. It it it will cost you some points with me, but I'm probably not gonna sneak into your house and look at your book. I'm going to.
+
+[52:04] Do what you want. But um, yeah, I mean I find subject organization to be the most helpful because of the way I tend to start thinking about books. I mean, some things, of course, obviously can fit in multiple categories, but you know, am I looking to make a birthday cake for somebody? I want to find my baking books all together. Am I uh that I come home from the green market with a with an arm full of something, and I, you know, I want to cook it in a certain national style.
+
+[52:37] I want to be able to find the uh the Japanese books. Um there are, you know resources like uh eat your books, which will allow you to access their database. You know, if you remember that somewhere in your library you you saw a recipe for uh a root burger syrup, and you've told it every book you have in your library, it can tell you which books will have that's cool. Have that recipe. It's a subscription service, but the people I know who use it uh are really generally pretty happy with it.
+
+[53:14] And there's a I think they have a good community of users there. I am spoiled by having this, you know, 12,000 title plus 6,000 supplemental secret basement library that uh I go to when I want to, and uh I don't worry about doing it at home. What I wouldn't give for the supplemental basement. Uh Dobrik, maybe this is Lukash, I'm not sure. Uh asks um question for the next classics in the field, Chinese vegetarian cookbooks.
+
+[53:45] Um, there are things coming on strong now. There's a lot of more interesting publishing. Uh Xiao Xing Chao did a Chinese vegetarian soul food book about two years ago. There's a new Chinese vegan book that's out from 10 Speed Press that are, I think, interesting and serious. Um obviously long tradition of vegetarian cooking in China, some of it oriented around access, some of it oriented around philosophy.
+
+[54:19] Um, but the older publishing, I'm really not aware of it. Um it tended to Chinese books when they occurred tended to be attempted to be comprehensive. Did you like those old Way Trend uh double language ones? Those were really interesting books. I never used them.
+
+[54:39] Um I had a bunch of them. I loved looking at them. And I vaguely remember that there was a vegetarian volume in that set, but it's been so long since I've seen one that I can't. I can't give much of an impression about it. Those were books for people who who knew the cuisine.
+
+[54:55] They had nothing in the way of head notes. They didn't orient you, they just threw the ingredients with you on a very terse set of. And and if you were comfortable in the cuisine, they could be really helpful. If you were getting your feet wet, they could be um a little opaque. All right, we have only four minutes and 34 seconds left.
+
+[55:16] You brought three books. Do this one last. Let's talk about the three books that you're that you're talking about. Okay. So the first book that I uh I think people should know about and pay attention to is a book called Great Sausage Recipes and Meat Curing by Ritech Kutas.
+
+[55:29] Uh the man founded a company up in Buffalo called The Sausage Maker, which sells sausage making equipment. You can still find the book there on his website. Uh it is old school, um highly practical, broad spectrum meat curing, sausage making. You can find not surprisingly given the man's name, a lot of Polish sausages, but you'll find uh Italian sausages and hams and although his Italian stuff, like he takes it to that kind of Germano-Polish side when he goes. Like he definitely leans heavy.
+
+[56:05] Well, you know, it's from the Trentino. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's uh, I mean, this is the kind of book that that uh that a neighborhood butcher store butcher shop from 40 years ago would have had behind the counter. And they would have been making a lot of their own things using this, and they've been playing with a formula a little bit. Um it was the only widely available book until the original charcuterie uh Simons and Roman book came out.
+
+[56:33] I bought my copy from you guys, like maybe I don't know, early, early, early 2000s. Yeah, it's um the family has kept it updated. I mean, I think the most recent update is now 15 years old. The name has changed a couple times, right? Uh a little bit.
+
+[56:48] I mean, the last three editions, I think, were great, great sausage recipes and meat curing. Um, it's just it's practical. It you can put it to use. If you go on their website, I mean, I'm not trying to plug what we do. You will see review after review after review, people saying, I've had this book since I was, you know, 25 years old, and I'm buying one now for my son-in-law.
+
+[57:09] I mean, it's just it has loyalty, it has reliability. And your website's a sausage maker, right? Yeah, just sausage makers, no, no the sausage maker.com up in Buffalo. You can buy equipment from them, you can buy prog powder from them and uh and all kinds of things. They're they're a good resource to know about.
+
+[57:27] And the book is uh Is he still on the cover? No, no, it's just a uh it looks like uh 1978 charcuterie board. Oh, get the old school one with him on the front. I don't know. I don't know, maybe they've changed it, maybe it's updated, maybe it's more modern now.
+
+[57:43] I don't know. Yeah, you could you could probably find one of the one with the old cover on it out there, but no jacket anymore. It's just a really paper over boards. All right, okay. But um it's that it's that sort of small artisan uh inventiveness and and dogged pursuit of of a goal.
+
+[58:02] He was the Papasian of that, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was he was there.
+
+[58:07] He was like testing everything, getting out there, developing the formulas. That's a homebrew reference for you people. Anyway, uh what's the next one? Okay, so uh book called Italian Read Regional Cooking by Ada Boni. Uh she is most famous for having a book called, written a book called uh uh La Talismana della Felicità, which was uh incredibly popular book uh published in Italy uh beginning in the 1930s.
+
+[58:35] It was a popular wedding gift, like uh the silver spoon, sort of one of the books that any Italian household might have. This was a later work of hers. Um it is one of the first big looks in English at Italian regional food. Um it's had sort of state-of-the-art photography before its day, although that's great. The photography is great.
+
+[59:00] It's um and it also tells tells you that whatever people are telling you with Instagram filters is not what things actually look like. Right, but I just opened to like a random page, and it's like uh Bisteca Fiorentina and the beans in the in the in the flask, and it's like old school, old school stuff. Very old school, very old school. Um, sometimes uh unabashedly so. Uh as she talks about different regions, she's definitely reflecting the point of view of a prosperous woman from Rome.
+
+[59:31] She uh speaks of some people as living as near savages, and mind you, this is 1968, so it's um, but you know, a lot of the and a lot of these recipes are recipes that I see later in like Bujali's books and like the paparadelic with uh rabbit, or like the chestnut cake, although I noticed that hers is completely unleavened, which is kind of like I looked at it, I was like, that's the densest, and there's a picture of it, the densest damn chestnut cake I've seen in my whole life. All right, and we still have uh two minutes, and you gotta talk about you happen to suggest one of my favorite all-time books. So this book has had uh been published under a couple of different titles, Chinese Gastronomy, originally in 1969, sometimes available in a paperback edition called The Art of Chinese Cuisine. Um it is um in the words of the great scholar Ann Mendelson, thoughtfully meandering, which always makes me think about exactly why it would appeal to you. Uh it's one of the first books to provide thorough use of Chinese characters to describe the dishes.
+
+[1:00:33] Um it makes a lot of references to early Chinese texts which were not being written about. I mean, they're going back to like 1100 BC to find references. It talks about the evolution of Chinese cooking as well as the regional material. And it's beautiful. You have the hardcover here.
+
+[1:00:50] Oh god, it's so gorgeous. If you can find a hardcover with the color plates in it, it's really worthwhile. Yeah. But even the paperback without the color plates. I got mine for two bucks.
+
+[1:00:59] They're now like they cost a lot more. It's got a beautiful Celadon cover. The I think it's Celadon, right? It's a little greener. The faded part of Celadon.
+
+[1:01:07] And then uh the color plates are amazing. The attitude, the mother-daughter team wrote it. The daughter is still alive. She's a biochemist. As far as I know, she's still alive because she came out with a book I bought from you in 2015 called Slippery Noodles, which is kind of a history of Chinese cuisine written in English.
+
+[1:01:21] But like, I would get this book first, way before I would get the Slippery noodles book. This is the book from which I first made Tungpo pork. This is the book where I made cream stock for the first time. I actually made Bird's Nest soup from this book once. Bear in mind, because it was written in 1969.
+
+[1:01:39] This is before Americans really knew anything about Sichuan cuisine, because that came in with kind of the Nixon era. John could talk about that forever because we worked on chow together. But uh just a really good book. And I don't I think it's gonna be different, but not dated in the way that some things date themselves. It is dated, like you say, she has a certain attitude, very kind of aristocratic attitude.
+
+[1:01:59] But like if you like reading stories about like people getting bent, do you remember the story about the the butcher with the cleaver? Yeah, rich guy, it's a it's an old, you know, because she's very historically minded, right? So, like you say, a lot of like references to history, you know, thousands, thousands of years of history. Uh a rich guy walks up to the butcher who's uh hacking up cows and says, Oh, you have a great great skill hacking up cows. And he's like, This is not a skill.
+
+[1:02:24] I don't it's not a skill. Like, I live this. This is my life. This is the Dow. Like, I'm doing this, and I don't ever have to sharpen my cleaver.
+
+[1:02:32] I never have to get a new cleaver because I never hit anything. I don't look, I look at a cow, I don't see a cow, I see where my cleaver is gonna go. I don't even see whole animals anymore. And it's just like going off on like this cleaver use, and you're just being like, damn, damn. That I mean, that kind of writing does just doesn't come along often enough.
+
+[1:02:51] Yeah. So when you can find it, go for it. Yeah, yeah. Check out that, check out that book. Chinese uh what's the other title?
+
+[1:02:57] What's the more recent title? Art of Chinese cooking. Art of Chinese cooking, yeah. Anyway, check it out. Matt, thanks so much for coming on.
+
+[1:03:02] Always a pleasure. Delighted. Thank you again. All right, and how did your odds and ends sale go? Did really well.
+
+[1:03:07] We did really well. We uh more than ever before, we sold ooh, twelve hundred books. No, I love it. All right. All right, check out uh Kitchen Arts and Letters, Cooking Issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New Stan Studios, joined as usual with John behind me. How are you doing, John? Doing great, thanks. Yeah?
+
+[0:21] Yeah. Can't hear you. All right. You're on the mic? There you go.
+
+[0:24] So yeah, there we go. There we go. Yeah, good enough. Rocking the panels, we got Joe Hazen. How you doing?
+
+[0:28] I'm doing well. Great to see you. Full-packed house. I know it. I know it.
+
+[0:32] Let's tell you know what? Let's do everyone in the room first. Our special guest for today is uh Andrea Nguyen with her new book, Evergreen Vietnamese. And plus, I of course am gonna talk to her about her what I consider to be classic in the field, Asian tofu. Hello, Andrea, how you doing?
+
+[0:46] Good. How about you? Doing quite well. And as a special secret sauce guest, we have uh Dennis No from DeAndi, one of the one of, you know, we did what do we, Dennis, back in the day. I brought the spinz all.
+
+[0:59] Is that thing still working? It is working, yes. Love you. He has one in his house. In that house.
+
+[1:04] I have all of your products in my house. Oh my god. I appreciate we appreciate it. We appreciate it. So we're gonna be, I don't know what we're gonna be doing.
+
+[1:11] We're gonna be talking about a lot of stuff. Maybe fish sauce. I mean, I want to say maybe, I mean I know we're gonna be talking about fish sauce. You have to. And in Stanford, Connecticut, we got Nastasia Lopez.
+
+[1:20] How you doing? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. I think.
+
+[1:24] I don't know. Oh, and actually, you know what? They turned my water off today when I was in the shower. Oh. And then and then it started dripping, and I'm like, I'm gonna get that la I'm gonna get those last few drips, and then it turned rust.
+
+[1:36] And so I got coated in that rust water. And so when I yeah, it's when I got out of the shower, I'm like, I'm gonna use the dark blue towel, not the white one. You know what I mean? Anyway. That hey, people, if you're ever gonna be in a bad situation, make sure you have at least one dark towel in your bathroom to, you know, take care of yourself.
+
+[1:56] You know what I'm saying? Anyway, uh I heard Jackie Molecules, Jack Ansley. How you doing? I'm great. Still in DC.
+
+[2:04] Still in DC, huh? No one on the West Coast right now. Well, except for our man. Except for our man Quinn chilling in the upper upper upper left. How you doing?
+
+[2:12] I am I I am perpetually on the West Coast. Just off the West Coast. Like just like not even. You know what I mean? Like you know, next stop Asia where you are, right?
+
+[2:24] I mean, there's no land anywhere beyond you. I mean, there is there is the West Coast of the island. I could be more West. I mean by what? By what?
+
+[2:33] Like five miles? More than that. All right. Okay. All right.
+
+[2:40] So uh today, you know, now is the portion of the show where we discuss any interesting cooking. Any, you know, any anyone got anyone got anything? Before, you know, if not, I'll have to fill it in and I want to hear other people's stories of the week. Anyone got anything fun? I will quickly say that uh I had a very, very good meal at a place called Astoria DC, which is uh Sichuan based cuisine.
+
+[3:04] Wait, it's called Astoria Perman. Yeah, I know. I do not have the backstory for you there. It's a Seshuan joint in DC called Astoria. Yeah, that's correct.
+
+[3:16] Okay. Okay. DC's a weird place, man. I don't know what to say. But if anybody's passing through DC, um I have no connection to the place.
+
+[3:23] It was just really good. I was I was impressed. Well, what'd you have? What did I have? I had um I forget what they called it.
+
+[3:32] Um there's like an actual Sichuan name for it, but you know the Seshwan chicken dish where it's like a mountain of basically peppers and and like you have to kind of fish through for the little pieces of chicken. The dry fried ones? I think some menus just call it, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's like all those chilies on top, and they're like Tian Chin chilies, but they're not really hot. They're just like really pretty.
+
+[3:55] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um it was it was very good. So, what is the deal with that, Andrew? Are they just like way like I mean, like I like to see them and stuff, and occasionally I'll suck on them, but like what are they actually doing?
+
+[4:07] You know, when uh when you buy those chilies, Dave, they're like they come in like huge quantities. It's like Costco quantities. And they have um they release just a little bit of fragrant um chili heat perfume. But you know, you're not expected to eat them. I know, but like uh I have a like a thing is that like uh I'll if if it's on the t if someone takes it away, I won't be like, I was eating that.
+
+[4:29] Whereas I normally, if there's anything left, I would do that. But if it's there, I'm gonna be like, no, me too. I eat all my garnishes. All right, don't leave that parsley spray. That's for me, you know, that's food.
+
+[4:39] This is why I am extraordinarily against the non-obvious non-edible garnish. I mean, if it's like if it's a hunk of metal, I'm not gonna eat it. You know what I mean? Yeah. But like, you know, if you put it on the plate.
+
+[4:50] Dave, this one this one would have driven you crazy because it also there are peanuts in this, and some of the chilies, and it was not a very well-lit restaurant. So some of the chilies were kind of like shaping almost like peanuts. Like peanut and chicken, how many times I I would go for a peanut and then just bite into an empty chili shell, and that got frustrating. I see. I see.
+
+[5:12] Well, I you know, but the thing is I can tolerate that. That's fine. But like I see you were going for the peanut. It is disconcerting when you go for one thing and get another. Right, that's what I'm saying.
+
+[5:22] Yeah, exactly. Which is why very few restaurants can get away. Actually, it's interesting in Evergreen Vietnam Mies, you talk a lot about uh Trumploy in in Asian cooking, but you know what's ha gonna happen beforehand. Very few restaurants can get away with serving you something where you don't, where the referent is different without telling you in advance. Right.
+
+[5:41] Because you know, as a diner, you're like, what the hell is am I getting? Yeah, yeah. And and you know, the surprise isn't uh unless you're you're really there to get kind of titillated by it, but otherwise, you know, you you have certain expectations you gotta deliver. You know, I was in DC last week and I had a ate a a Lao place called uh tip cow. And I have is uh that place was so good.
+
+[6:02] And you know what? I got this inside scoop on Monday, is when Chef Sang cooks. It's the only day that she cooks now. So uh if you're in DC, stop by there. And she has this collared leaf wrap, Pang Mian.
+
+[6:15] Typically, like I've seen it with uh wild pepper leaf. We call them uh Lao Lo in in Vietnam, but the Lao version, they typically will wrap um like uh fried catfish, or here she also had um fried tofu and herbs in um raw collard leaves, so it's kind of bitter. And then the sauce was like fresh pineapple, um, with fermented soybeans and ginger and soy sauce. It was so good. And she gets her catfish fresh from the Chesapeake.
+
+[6:48] Wow. With the skin on. And it it and then it's good, it's a good cat. It's not like a mud, it's not a muddy. No.
+
+[6:54] Okay. Real clean. All right. I was amazed. Yeah.
+
+[6:58] Have you they got rid of all the mud. That's what I'm saying. That's the thing. I I've very rarely have muddy tasting fish anymore. Whereas it used to be constantly, I would get muddy.
+
+[7:07] Not constantly, I mean, because I would avoid them. Yeah. But what did they do? Did they like wash the mud out of the fish? I don't know.
+
+[7:13] I don't know. It's the chemical is Jasmin, but I don't know what uh I think it's from some bacteria that lives in the, you know, where they're hanging out. I don't know. But it's rarer than it used to be. Don't you think?
+
+[7:26] I think it's maybe because they're farm raised. More like catfish. This this catfish had a little, you know, like a little flavor to it. Nice. All right.
+
+[7:36] I also remember when catfish used to be really fatty too. In a good way or better. In a good way. I think frot pan fried to like release all this wonderful richness. You know, I need to get I need to get better with my freshwater fish game, because like I get I always gravitate towards uh saltwater fish.
+
+[7:52] You know, and I'm not saying that's a good thing, but like I've never like wrapped my head around loving carp. Carp is hard to love. It's you know, it's very firm and kind of tasteless, right? And you have to really manipulate it. At its best, it's tasteless.
+
+[8:10] You're kind of chewing on kind of wet styrofoam. Yeah. Oh my god. Uh uh, so you mentioned the pepper leaves, which I had a question about because you have several recipes in Evergreen. Vietnamese about a pepper leaves, and I feel that like there are so many different very close.
+
+[8:26] So for those of you that don't know, all of these plants are very closely related to black pepper, like same genus, different species. Peeper, blah, blah, blah. And they are used all over the world, everywhere but Europe. Right. What's with that?
+
+[8:41] Yeah, I don't, I don't know. I don't know. Every culture except for Europe uses some variant, maybe because they don't grow there. Yeah, it's true. It's a tropical plant.
+
+[8:49] It's a tropical vining plant. Yeah. Yeah. So you have the beetle leaf. I've never used uh I've never used uh the wild pepper leaf that you and Oja Santa in in Mexico.
+
+[8:59] I mean everyone has a variant. I tried making a drink once with the actual beetle leaf and it tasted too much like a burning transformer. It was like you know how like when you when electronic goes poof yeah it tastes like that. You know what I mean? So people I liked it because I knew that that flavor was going to be there and you could convince yourself that you like anything as long as you know it's going to happen.
+
+[9:17] Remember I was saying that before but like other people were like nah man, nah. But then when I did a drink with Oja Santa, everyone loved it. Do you think that the wild pepper leaf that you're talking about would be good in a drink? Yeah because you were using the better leaf that is probably known in India as pan. Yeah the chewing one sticker the chewing one.
+
+[9:35] Yeah and you're not yet that's a chewy. It's not a swallower. And so well I remember I was freezing with liquid nitrogen breaking it up and yeah yeah. So the thing with the wild pepper leaf um it's oftentimes referred to as a wild better leaf but then people get confused with the chewing one. Yeah.
+
+[9:51] So I call it wild pepper leaf because in Vietnamese we call it la lot and it's a thinner leaf and when it's heated up it releases this incense like fragrance that is so darn charming and um just intoxicating. And so if you heat that up somehow and add it to your drink man, you're golden. What does it taste like before you heat it? It has a very mild flavor. You can chew it when it's raw and I think that your saliva and the heat in your mouth will trigger certain um oils to release but but it really exhibits um it's its beauty once that it's heated up I'm gonna try it nitro model and then see because I'm normally I do everything I can to not heat heat.
+
+[10:33] Yeah, right. But this you're saying I should heat it to get the I gotta do some tests. You do. Would it be also be good in beans the way that oja santa is, even though it's a different flavor? As a finishing, I was at it at it at it as a finisher.
+
+[10:46] Yeah. Yeah. Cause it it's really gonna react to heat. But you know, like a lot of those kinds of or oh hasant is like a big thicker leaf. They're big, yeah.
+
+[10:53] But they they they're thicker, but it tears quite easily. It's not like uh it doesn't have that kind of glossy, like maybe I'm gonna cut my mouth situation that like beetle leaf, like pawn has. Yeah. Yeah. Pan is is like it's not pleasant.
+
+[11:06] No, you feel like you can probably stitch it together for an outfit. Yeah. It's like sturdy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but oh asantha's fleshy.
+
+[11:12] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um I love it. Yeah. I love Ola Santa, but um, well, whatever.
+
+[11:17] I if I ever have a place again, I'll I'll work on it. You know what my favorite herb to do now, and I gotta find a source because I have a plot now. I'm a member of a community garden now. And uh, although I don't have a lot of light, I wanna do scented geraniums. Oh, yeah.
+
+[11:29] Yeah, rose rose adrenaline, all the different kinds. Yeah, that would that releases it that's perfume so beautifully, no heat needed. Yeah, and some of them are some of them can go a little bit on the detergent side. Yeah. You start thinking of like grandma's wallpaper.
+
+[11:46] Yeah, yeah, but some of them aren't, right? Some of the so you need to catch just the right one. So I'm gonna ask my farmer supplier if he'll give me some to plant. You think he I buy his stuff. He won't why wouldn't he Yeah, just give a little cutting or whatever.
+
+[12:00] It's a little starter plant. Yeah, right. Yeah. I mean, I'm still gonna buy from him. Yeah, but you do you need a little secret, you know, back back back window consultation on which one would work.
+
+[12:09] And I don't think the local weirdos uh would pick it from the community garden. I don't think they would steal it. If I planted something that they could see, they would steal it. You know what I'm saying? That's so New York.
+
+[12:21] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, you know how New York is. Uh so my crazy uh culinary thing this week was uh so I do Sunday family dinner, right? And I thought it was gonna be I don't know what I thought.
+
+[12:35] I decided to do whole fish. So back in the day, back I used to have a commercial deep fryer home, right? And you know, 40 pounder. And one of my things I would do, my stepfather would catch these like, you know, 36, 40 inch striped bass, right? And I would I would uh put you know butcher's twine through the tail and I would tie it to the mouth real tight, like a like a U.
+
+[12:57] And then I would low temp it at like 57 Celsius, which is a 135, until the inside got to be ours because it's so big, you know what I mean? Then I would uh until it got to about 52 on the inside, pull it, you know, fin sticking up, all that stuff, like starch coat it, and then deep fry the whole thing. You know, always stuffed with lime, cilantro, garlic. Uh I always do lime, cilantro, garlic, sometimes orange, uh onion, you know, stuff it in and some parsley so that it gets the aroma when it's low temping, you know, and the and salt and pepper. So they because the aroma goes through the whole fish when you steam it, right?
+
+[13:35] Right. Anywho, you wouldn't think it did because you wouldn't think it does because that's the kind of thing where you're like, oh, that stuff's just vestigial. You're just making you feel good. But no, when you're when you're low temping or steaming the fish, that stuff really permeates the flesh. Makes it better.
+
+[13:47] Anyway, you deep fry the whole thing and it comes out, and you have this giant fish that can feed like 20 people, which is amazing, awesome. Anyway, I don't have that deep fryer anymore. So I got like a whole bunch of bronzino, right? At like I went to the, you know, my local market down on um in Chinatown, and I got like, I was like, give me five. Because I 12 people are coming over.
+
+[14:05] Well, this this one, oh man. Five. That's I had 12 people. That's like grandpa brand's in the right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[14:10] Yeah, yeah, I know. Well, you know, whatever. But they were a good price, and the eyes were clear. And you got lucky. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[14:16] Well, I looked at them. You know what I mean? Well, they looked back at you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, you know, you know how you when they get all sunk in the dry eye and like the yeah, yeah.
+
+[14:23] Uh anyway. So they I was like, okay, this is gonna work. So I get them, and the here's my first mistake. Uh the guy says, Do you want me to clean them? And I only have I don't have that much time, right?
+
+[14:33] So I'm like, sure, sure, clean them. So I don't have every, not one, not two, not three, not four, popped five, popped all five of the little like bile sack things. Oh, oh, five. Oh, no. And left that yellow garbage, the bitter, that bitter stinking, yucky, yucky, yucky, smelly stain on the end.
+
+[14:54] Every single time. It's like the guy was like, F this dude and just stabbed the sack on every single fish. I was like, son. So, like, then like obviously not, and so once I once I saw that, I was like, I'm gonna have to do some trimming anyway. And plus, they left so much blood on the back.
+
+[15:09] Oh, so you know, I take a score the thing, and I take my have a little nylon brush, I'm like to go to the, you know, to go to the whatever the the spine, right? Yeah, and then I was like, I have a bunch of kids coming over, everyone's gonna complain about the bones. You know how everyone complains about the bones at a whole fit, everybody. So I I think I have the good compromise. You ready for it?
+
+[15:26] Ready for the compromise? Okay. All right. So you hold the fish open, and then I cut, I cut a like the rib cage thing along the backbone, and then just rip just the rib cage bones out. Because the backbone one, once it's cooked, is not a problem.
+
+[15:40] Yeah, it's like easy removal, kind of like Picasso-E. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's the rib cage bones that mess everyone up. You know what I'm saying? I think this is the compromise.
+
+[15:48] And to tell them, you know, if you want the fin meat, which is clearly the best meat, okay, cheek, cheek, cheek. But like fin meat is good too, because it's fatty around it, right? Right. Pull the fin off and suck on it. Don't be a jerk.
+
+[15:56] Don't call, don't come, don't come to me and say that you took a fin and got bones and got mad at me, right? Yeah. But I mean, those those rib bones, man, those are like tiny, thin little bones, and people like will, they're afraid of choking on them. Yeah, yeah. It's like choking has them.
+
+[16:09] And you don't want them to come over to your house and go, I want a Dave Arnold's home. And then like they he choke my kids. I mean, they're not babies. Anyway, so like uh anyway, anyway, anyway. So I realized at this point that I can't fit this many.
+
+[16:22] I that in my I have an ANOVA, which I was gonna use to low temp it, right? I was like, oh my God, I have to put and I turned them into C shapes, you know. I was like, these are gonna have to go in two layers. I can't cook five, I can't fit five on one pan in this oven. Right.
+
+[16:38] So I was like, oh man, this is two layers. And then I was like, because I my plan was low temp it and then throw it into the brevel to air air fry it to crisp it up. You know what I mean? Yeah. That was the plan.
+
+[16:48] Simple, right? I was like, oh my God, it's not gonna work because I don't want to have to air fry in two rounds because it'll take too long. And the first one will kind of be sad by the time the second one. Yeah, yeah. And so I was like, oh my God, I'm hosed.
+
+[17:02] I'm hosed. Because you can't air fry in two layers. You know what I mean? Yep. So I was like, oh my God.
+
+[17:07] So here's what I did. I have one of those little crappy plug-in-the-wall now, deep fryers now, but they're not crappy, they're crappy though. And like it doesn't have enough power, right? So I was like, I was like, I was like, okay, okay, okay, okay. I'm gonna stick the deep fryer on top of my induction burner.
+
+[17:21] And I'm gonna use the induction burner and the deep fryer, right? To to to make sure it has enough power so that I can do fish, fish, fish, fish, fish. Fast, fast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, turns out that like the way they design it, you can't make the induction burner unless I cut the deep fryer apart, which I should have done in retrospect, you can't make the the because of these cheaper um deep fryers, they're basically just third pants.
+
+[17:41] They're enameled third pants. Right, right. And right with a with a with a thing you stick in it. But I couldn't touch the induction, so I couldn't make it go. So I was like, son of a I mean, son of a gun.
+
+[17:51] Anyway, so then I stick it on my gas burner, right? Right. And everyone in the house is like, I didn't tell my wife. Everyone was like, who was in the kitchen with me was like, you're making a mistake. And I'm like, let's find out.
+
+[18:02] And so like I used the gas burner and the thing and the oil temperature, I my recovery was amazing. That deep fryer is never coming back from what it did to it. I was like, uh through the third fish. I was temping it, everything was good. Through at the around the third fish, I started smelling the plastic.
+
+[18:19] Oh man. Oh. I have a hood on, everything. They weren't smelling it over where they were eating, but I could smell the plastic. I knew that it was proper.
+
+[18:27] Your fried daddy days were number. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So uh finally the next day when I looked at it, I had melted the entire back out of the it thankfully didn't meld with my stove.
+
+[18:40] It like I was able to pop it off of my stove. But yeah, that thing is gone. So I need to, I'm gonna modify a deep fryer to use two circuits instead of trying to heat it. Don't don't put your electric heat, uh uh your electric deep fryer on a gas element. Just don't do it.
+
+[18:57] I I well, you know, you've tried it, you've been there, you have recovered. Yeah, you didn't burn down the house. Fish was delicious though. Yeah. I mean, you want that really fast, like plunge action.
+
+[19:08] You know, did you score the fish? Or you just like no. Yeah, right, right, yeah, yeah. Right, right, rice. But yeah, if I was gonna do it from z from zero, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[19:19] It's gorgeous. Just cornstarch, your cornstarch and rice flour and I didn't have any cornstarch, so I used arrowroot, which was it wasn't as crispy, but it was it was fine. I have a for some reason I have a boat ton of arrowroot in my house. I do too. Why would you use it for it?
+
+[19:30] I I don't know. I think mine's like 15 years old. You know, like sometimes you buy things and you just go, yeah, I'm gonna use sometimes. Yeah, it was like it was like it was like a small thing of arrowroot was like five dollars and five pounds was like ten dollars. I'm like, I'll take the five pounds.
+
+[19:44] Yeah, because I'll I got some use for it. Yeah. Paint from Shea someday, I don't know. No, I mean, like, you know, there was a time, you know, when we were kids, arrowroot was like, ooh, you had like a small spice jar of arrowroot and you used it for your fancy thickening, but now nobody cares about arrowroot. No, no, exactly.
+
+[20:01] You know, arrowroots like and like kutzu was like sexy. Uh yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, a lot of chefs do like the kudzu. Yeah, I don't use it though. I don't either.
+
+[20:08] I have I have some of that too. But arrowroot, yeah, I've got like bags of it, little boxes of it. And I just I just look at it every once in a while in my pantry. Yeah. Um but so you used it and it was just it is it's not as hard as cornstarch is in terms of frying.
+
+[20:22] You notice that? Yeah, it didn't, yeah. And you for this application you want hard. You want hard. You want that really hard texture.
+
+[20:29] And and some chefs have been Asian chefs have been telling me, Oh, you know what I do? I cook my tofu with cornstarch and rice flour. Yeah. Yeah. And you did you test it?
+
+[20:39] What do you think? I I like it, but you know, you have to consider which kind of rice flour you're using. Like a coarse grind, kind of bob's red mill that is dry, dry ground, you know, um, stone ground, or a much finer Asian rice flour that's been soaked in water and then the grains have been soaked in water and then ground, and then it's really much more powdery. So so if you want like a crisper finish, I would I would go with with the bobs. Even try like brown rice flour, which sometimes can be, you know, it's gonna be a little even harder than white rice flour.
+
+[21:12] As long as it's not gritty. Yeah. That's the thing you know the thing about the wet ground, here's the issue like terminology is so crap, right? So like wet grind to me is like close to starch. You know what I mean?
+
+[21:26] In in in the way that starch doesn't have damaged starch in it, right? Right. Because it's not damage. It's wet ground, right? And so like this is a problem like in in Europe, not in I don't know, all of Europe.
+
+[21:39] In UK apparently, if you ask for, if you want cornstarch, you ask for corn flour. And I'm like, no, they are different. They are a different are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because one, you grind up corn, and when you grind up the corn, you break some of the starch.
+
+[21:52] And so that broken starch absorbs water and it holds water differently than cornstarch does. Because cornstarch doesn't hold water unless you know, you know, you unless you heat it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like anywho.
+
+[22:03] Yeah, no, I well, I know the wet mill thing, because in because in certain parts of Asia, you you traditionally you would go to the market and you would buy a um rice flour that was already like hydrated, but it was hydrated because the miller soaked the rice, then um grounded it so that it was already like this paste for you to take home and use it for dumplings or different kinds of of um cakes and stuff. So you get sticky rice um paste or a a regular rice paste. And so that's where that comes from because it's already hydrated and it's much finer texture than if you were to go straight from like just grinding raw grains of rice. And um, so that's you know, there's a difference between those two. You just have to choose and and play with it.
+
+[22:52] You know what I used to hate about rice flour, or you know, is uh I could never remember whether it was the green bag or the red bag. I know, I know. I've I've bought the wrong ones. Yeah, yeah. I even like bought the wrong like 20-pound bags of rice and gotten like, oh my god, I have a 20-pound bag of sticky rice now forever.
+
+[23:09] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll be like, but like you went back when I used to teach at the French culinary, I'd be like, get that, I'd be like, don't get the glutinous one. I don't even want the glutinous one. They're like, green or red, green or red. I don't know.
+
+[23:18] I don't know. I know, but but don't you read like three or four languages because those bags are printed in Thai? Vietnamese, Chinese, and English. Hello. Well, as long as we're on rice, let's talk rice, because uh Evergreen Vietnamese has a bunch of interesting rice hacks in it.
+
+[23:31] Like uh, first of all, how about this uh what's the what's the Vietnamese word uh that's uh similar to kanji again? Dao? Yeah, yeah. Explain to me, first of all, difference Vietnamese style and like the Chinese style, and then your blender hack. Oh so Vietnamese style uh kanji or porridge, um, we call it do.
+
+[23:55] And the thing is that so much of what I see out there in kanji is really thick and practically gluey. But in uh Vietnamese fashion, it can be kind of almost it could be any texture you want. It'd be kind of thin if you like, with a good um broth. And so there are different ways of making it. You can use um broken rice, you can use leftover rice, you can use sticky rice.
+
+[24:17] And so my hack stems from the fact that I'm lazy. I don't plan ahead. Uh I like laziness. Laziness with a good result is the best result. Yeah.
+
+[24:26] So then in the morning, I'm gonna like bring a pot of water or broth. Uh broth is much better than water, um, to a boil. I throw some rice in there, I let it really like the grains plump up, and then I'm gonna turn the heat off and put the lid on it, and I walk away and I do like nothing to it. And it's hydrating very slowly, just like your fish right I mean like time is cooking and you just let Mother Nature just do her thing and at the end of the line you just stick a blend a hand blender in there or stick it in the blender whirl it up to break up the grains and then reheat and the starches bloom. I bet your hand blender is better because it lets you could control more.
+
+[25:02] Yeah yeah and I mean it looks like at the end it kind of looks a little um barfy you know right but be patient right that's what you say you very in the book you're like don't worry it will look bad right now yeah and you know what that's in recipe writing sometimes it's so romantic right it's like oh you're nearly there it's so beautiful and I'm like no it's not there yet don't worry because I'm looking at the pot too going oh my god how do I convince people that you know they're not just like going down the path to ruin with this with this conji but then you can add different kinds of grains to it and then by the time you're ready for lunch you know you reheat it and you add whatever leftovers you got and then you've got yu. But you say it looks normal once you reheat it. Yeah because the the starches bloom and they express themselves the rice grains you know whatever grains you got and and it thickens. And then you can like you know the thing is that so many people I remember one recipe tester who's white and she said to me I've been to you know I've eaten a lot of of conchie and it's always thick. I'm like but lady you know what they're like different textures just like you can have polento at different textures you know um and risotto too so there you really have to decide what you want for your for your porridge.
+
+[26:10] PS my favorite polenta is scrapple oh yeah that's that's polenta with life. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, right? Yeah. Um, all right.
+
+[26:20] So a couple of things. One, you wrote a whole book on I mean, at the end, you have you have some recipes. If you hate plants, there are some recipes in here, but you have a couple of recipes that are, you know, right. But the whole idea is taking kind of your mindset and view and moving it towards plant-based uh like writing a plant-based book. And uh we we could talk about it in a minute.
+
+[26:42] But here's what's interesting. You wrote in what's this 2012? You wrote the only like readable book on how to make tofu. I love Shirtle's book, right? But that's more of like uh social missions.
+
+[27:01] Yes. With some recipes, you know what I mean? And like some like all this kind of stuff. But Asian tofu was kind of like when that came out, it's like, oh, finally, there's a book people can read on how to make and use uh all different styles of tofu. And uh, including for the first time actually explaining how different coagulants work as opposed to just mentioning what they were.
+
+[27:25] It used to be hard before this book came out when I was you know first doing tofu stuff. I stayed on even though Epsom salt is not your favorite, it's your third favorite. That's the one that I oh wow because I could buy it at the right aid, right? And there was no one that there wasn't anyone on the internet yet. All I had was shirtleaf's book.
+
+[27:44] Yeah, you know what I mean? And Nigari. I tried to get it once, but it was not, it was not the liquid. I couldn't get the ratios right. It was just a solid salt.
+
+[27:52] It didn't work. I don't and the person at the store, like Sun, whatever it is, um Mitsua or Sunni, oh uh oh, right. The Japanese the second story, yeah, yeah, yeah. The one, you know, near Astro Place. Anyway.
+
+[28:03] Uh so this is like whatever, this is like, you know, 99, 2000, something like this. You know what I mean? Like there was not a lot of information, and so I was able to get it to work properly with Epsom salt. And so I just stayed with it, even though it's you say it's it's greedy grainies. It is, it's grainy, a great grainy tofu results.
+
+[28:23] But if you've you've got um, you know, gypsum or niggari or even blending them nowadays too. You're not a GDL person. You know, a GDL man, it's like jello tofu. Uh yeah, but it certainly works every single time. I feel like it's fine if you're a weasel.
+
+[28:39] Is that what you're saying? I mean, you know, like, you know, box tofu, like that, I call that survival tofu. I mean, the last day, end of days tofu. So I have to say, like, I feel I feel like everyone should make tofu at least four times. Why four?
+
+[28:55] Because by the time they get to the fourth time, they'll have figured out that they either didn't press it hard enough, or the first time maybe they'll mess up the coagulation. The second time when they get it right, uh that they're gonna start getting better with the cleanup, and so they won't worry about it as much, and they're gonna figure out that they didn't press it enough, they press it too much. Third time, like they're just feeling and the fourth time they can actually do it. That's what I think. My feeling.
+
+[29:18] That's my feeling. But don't you don't you think there's like that magic the first time you you go from beans to curd, and you're like, oh my god, I just made tofu. If it works, you know, I didn't think I could do it the first time. And I I was like using Shirtlift's book. And I interviewed him for this book too, and he was very, very helpful.
+
+[29:37] But he was like on a mission. He was very dogmatic, very much returning to, you know, the the earth kind of thing. He's a different, he's a different person. Yeah, he is. He is.
+
+[29:47] And he's still like on its mission to get people to eat more soybeans. Soybeans are are his thing. Um, but I was just amazed. I just like went to my health food store, bought whatever soybeans I had, they had, yeah, coagulated it with. I I think I got my uh gypsum from like I mail ordered it or from a low local uh brew place.
+
+[30:07] Yeah, the picture in here is like the I forget the name, it's like LB Carlson or whatever. It's the home brewer supply. Yeah. Uh because I wanted to show people like you could just like go buy this stuff and then make tofu. Epson salt, but I tried Epsom salts first, too.
+
+[30:19] And then it like it was like grainy. But I thought, you know, what is it that people are using to make tofu? Because it's just like two ingredients coragulate and beans. But also your book, Shirley's book does not go into different richnesses for different applications. Yeah.
+
+[30:35] So like the first time I made Yuba, delicious. First of all, that's something maybe you make twice because it's incredibly delicious and it will give you an amazing appreciation for you, but and then find a fresh yoke Yuba shop. Buy it because it is so labor intensive. Yeah, do you like the red ones that come out later? The late, the late, you know how like you pull out the yes, and it's like all kind of crunch at the bottom of the pan.
+
+[30:56] I like yeah, me too. I uh the we here's why you should make yuba. Because you can see the difference from the beginning of the batch to the end of the batch, you get an appreciation for it. But whenever I make a fresh tofu or a yuba product, I end up not doing I if I'm gonna do a recipe, I buy the tofu. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[31:14] No, I mean, like when you're gonna make fresh tofu, you just want to eat it with some good soy sauce and ginger. You know, it's like making fresh cheese and drizzling like olive oil and some good salt on it. Yeah, I also never soak it when I make it, I just pre press it, serve it, press serve. So it has all of the nut has been washed out. It's like so.
+
+[31:31] We can talk about draining. People are so like into it, I've got to drain tofu because otherwise it's just gonna like you know fall apart and I'm going to be awful. But tofu has its tenderness and you want it to express itself be because of that tenderness. And if you press the damn thing to death, it's like eating overcooked chicken breasts or pork loin. Right, right.
+
+[31:52] I mean it has its place in recipes, pressed tofu. And you know, anyway. Reason I bring all this up aside from the fact that I'm a fan of the book and I'm glad you wrote it, is that you wrote this book on plant-based, and not once did you even mention that you wrote a book on how to make tofu. I know, because I don't know, you know, it's like because I don't want people to think like you have to make tofu to make any of those dishes. And in in Evergreen Vietnamese, like tofu is the star protein.
+
+[32:20] And I was so happy to do that and to use it in all these different guises. And I had like a little mission, you know, people can use like regular tofu that they can get at like Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, you know, um Costco. But I I wanted to push people to using fermented tofu, which I think is like next level tofu. You don't like the one with the chili for your recipes. I don't because the one with the chili, I mean, it's already manipulated for you.
+
+[32:45] And I love the fresh taste of chili, you know, versus stuff that's already in the brine. I don't know what they're using. And different brands are gonna vary, you know. But when you buy fermented tofu, um, please like look uh I I really love the Taiwanese brands. I think that they're more elegant.
+
+[33:00] Um, they have uh a really mellow, mellow flavor. Some of the brands from other parts of Asia can be just a little too intense. Well, they're so different though. They are right, like like the stuff that you get on the well, it's different, I know the ones that are like fermented in big chunks and fried are different from the ones you get in the jars, but um yeah, but I only learned that because I researched Asian tofu and I went, you know, on tofu explorations, you know, tofu tourism, tofu tourism. Well, you use the fermented tofu a lot in this as like uh almost like uh like a cheese substitute in that you did uh a water spinach with fermented tofu like cream sauce yeah yeah and then there's also this um this dip that I make this sauce um with lemongrass and chili and lime juice and that's great for coup d'etates you can also like drizzle that on um uh grilled romaine and top it with fried shallad as a salad you could even like put it on rice you really think the fried shallot have to make it fresh huh come on just on that one not every and on the sometimes yeah yeah all right just but you don't always have to you can buy it okay well you're very like uh what's it called you're uh forgiving I am a practical purist yeah I know my limits I know home cook's limits speaking of fermented tofu that's the one recipe in the tofu book that makes me a little nervous growing mold well because listen someday we'll have uh you I mean I get nervous like I would eat almost anything I'll do anything to myself you know what I'm saying yeah but for others yeah it just makes me nervous if it's not inoculated with something that I know what it is it just makes me nervous you know and here for fermented fofu I'm like let's let it sit out and see what happens.
+
+[34:42] Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah you're like stuff might happen to the wrap over the top don't worry don't worry you'll be okay yeah yeah yeah I've tested it on myself I'm sure you will be but that's the one that makes me because like the the the alcohol you know the liquor's gonna like kill whatever later on yeah. And salt too. There's plenty of salt in there. Uh hey, another one uh interesting, going back to the tofu, I think that's in this book and not this book. My mind gets confused because I was skimmed back through this again uh before I came on today.
+
+[35:10] And when you're when you're smoking the pressed tofu, you put sugar in with the tea. What is the sugar doing there? Is it is it add like that kind of burnt scorchy? Yeah, kind of caramely. Yeah.
+
+[35:22] Because tea, you know what it when it uh cause because the tea that I call for is I think lapsang sushong. So it's not the smokiness, but I wanted a little bit of that caramely quality. Just and it doesn't smoke for that long. So you really got a narrow window of time to like really, you know, inject power into the tofu. And that's like pressed tofu.
+
+[35:40] So it's like really dense. And the thing is nowadays when you go to buy tofu at a regular supermarket, that super firm tofu that is sold in vacuum sealed packages, that's the equivalent of pressed tofu. Um it's not as as silky textured as what you would get in an Asian market. But you can, you know, tinker around with with all those um dishes that call for pressed tofu or you're making baked tofu. You can use super firm um as as a sub.
+
+[36:05] But yeah, that that's what the sugar is there for. Sugar is kind of a nice thing to play with, you know. I mean it's like such an evil nowadays. I just Hey man, you know, uh well, speaking of uh evil and and healthy, did you want to go through why you wrote this book or are you sick of talking about that? No, no.
+
+[36:21] I mean, I think Dave, you and I around the same age. Yeah, things happen to our bodies when we uh uh head into our 50s. And um, so around 2019, I had um some health problems that um didn't require surgery, thank goodness, but um I realized that I had just been eating and drinking a lot of stuff that I shouldn't. Um it's work related. You know, we're we work in food and we're we're curious people and we combine a lot of weird things in our bodies.
+
+[36:49] And um to just kind of tweak my diet, I double down on vegetables. But the thing is that I'm a rule breaker, I can't stick to like one diet. I'm I can't be paleo. I can't, and then like Mediterranean's great, but I'm Asian, so it doesn't quite work with with my culture. But I like plants, right?
+
+[37:09] And um, and I realized that if I just ate more vegetables and built my food, my my food choices around that and ate low meat. I'm not gonna give up meat altogether because I think meat has its place. Um but once I started playing with vegetables and redoing some of my favorite Vietnamese dishes, I was like, vegetables are extra cool. They have personality, you know, mushrooms squeak. They do, they do.
+
+[37:33] They do, and we don't talk about it. Yeah, chitin. Yeah, you know, and and and they had they're beautiful, carrots have different colors and and their flavors, you know, reflect their colors, you know, and and so I thought I'm just gonna write this book about vegetables. And I my health was getting better. I go and I talk to my mom, who's like back then 87, and she goes, Oh, I'm so glad that you're, you know, if you reawaken and refresh yourself, child, I'm so happy for you.
+
+[38:00] Um, and I said, but you know, I did it by eating a lot more plants, mom. And she's like, ah, we used to do that in Vietnam. And her thing was just telling me that our diet had changed when we came to America. And that happens to a lot of immigrant communities. You know, this country is a land of of um of opportunities to to indulge and to eat lavishly, and part of that is eating a lot of meat.
+
+[38:25] We have inexpensive, we have inexpensive meat. We do. I mean inexpensive relative to where what it should cost. Yeah, and all of a sudden, you know, uh, we were eating a lot more animal protein, and she revealed to me that even when she had like a dish in Vietnam that was like a stir fry, we had a family of a household of eight people. She would call um for 300 grams of protein for eight people.
+
+[38:47] It's 10 ounces. Yeah, that's more of a seasoning at that point. Like seasoning meat. Like when like when I when I graduated college, you're like, you get you buy one thing of bacon and you make it last all week by adding a little bit to every dish. Yeah.
+
+[38:59] Yeah. But that was like how we ate all the time. Or if she had like a little soup or something, she would call for a hundred grams. And she had it dialed down to the grams. And at that point, I realized that, you know, I was returning to my food roots.
+
+[39:11] And um, so this book, the name of it really is about the enduring aspects, the evergreen ideas of Vietnamese food. And it's rooted in in plants. So, you know, like what are your what are your perspectives on the term plant-based, Dave? Because I, you know, you're you're a thinker of um from many different angles. What does that mean to you?
+
+[39:31] I okay. So what I appreciate about you and your book is you're dogmatically non-dogmatic, right? So it's not you're not trying to make somebody else feel bad. My issue, I mean, everything is eventually plant-based, right? I eat plant-based pig because that's what the pig ate.
+
+[39:51] But you know what I mean? Uh but I don't know where I am at it. I try to avoid anything that tries to make somebody else feel bad for their choices. And so when I I dislike, that's why I dislike the word clean, because the opposite of clean is dirty. So that means I eat clean, you eat dirty.
+
+[40:09] And it's a moralistic thing to, and I don't like it. But plant-based isn't like that. It's plant-based can be neutral. So when it's used in a neutral way, I think it's great when it's used in a way to kind of beat down or look down on other people and the choices they have to make in their life, then I I have a problem. You know what I mean?
+
+[40:28] Like that's my that's where I am. No, I am the same way because it's, you know, we're all we all come from agrarian societies, and plant-based means putting plants first. And you and vegetables deserve to be loved by everyone, not just vegans. Yeah. Well, speaking of vegans though, what I think is interesting, even though all throughout it you're like, you could put in chicken, you could put chicken into this or beef.
+
+[40:52] You also go through great lengths to make vegan versions of everything, including, and Dennis, you better get in on this. I'm gonna get bent. Uh, fish sauce. Oh, yeah. Vegan, vegan nook mam.
+
+[41:02] Yeah. So I didn't even know. First of all, have you guys tried uh it's not fish sauce, even though they say it's it's not a replacement for fish fish sauce, and it's not a replacement for soy. But have you guys tried the yandu? I have heard about it.
+
+[41:14] Yeah. I was kind of bringing around and I forgot. I don't know where they make it, but it is delicious. I'll say this, it's especially delicious in Western dishes where you want to pop the umami. You don't necessarily want to add MSG, because MSG, even though we we could talk about that too, it's more difficult to dose MSG, right?
+
+[41:32] Yandu has flavors other than the other than the fact that it's got a lot of free uh glutamate in it, but it doses like soy or it doses it doses, I would say, like soy. It it's uh it takes a heavier dose than fish sauce. It doses like soy, uh like light soy. Right. And um, but when you add it, it adds those things that you like without the characteristic notes of those cuisines.
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+[42:00] So it's more of a secret, it's adaptive, yeah. It's secret. So you can add it to like a Western soup, and it's not like, yeah, it's not like you have another thing that's like that is uh have you ever had the the Japanese Ayu fish sauce? This the sweet water, the sweet fish Ayu. It's a it's a new it's newish newish meaning 20 years old, but it's not like traditional product.
+
+[42:28] But it's it's a typo shotsuru, the Japanese uh fish sauce. It's uh yeah, it's but it's it's like I say it's new. It's not like it's not like it's I think from further south in Japan, it's not it's not from uh Ishikawa, uh it's uh it I love Ishiri, but but this is different, but it also you can use it in Western dishes without feeling like you've pushed it in the direction of a Japanese product or you know, whoever whichever product you're using, right? Um so I think it's really interesting. You should try it.
+
+[42:59] I was gonna bring it, but like they turn my water off. Like I told you that they turn my water off. So my whole mind was thrown into a hole. I was gonna take a little yondu and bring it and see see what you thought because you say that the commercial vegan uh Vietnamese vegan fish sauces that you don't really like very much. They have a chemically quality.
+
+[43:16] I mean, they're they're um they're convenient, but you know, they're hard to get for people who are looking for a vegan fish sauce that's good. There are commercial vegan fish sauces sold at like health food stores, and honestly, they don't taste very good. They're very bland. And um they're gonna dose like a super low sodium uh soy sauce. And I don't know about you, but I'm always like taking my uh sodium count, assessing them when I'm matching condiments, because that's really where, you know, when you're looking at those numbers, then you can really assess like how much you need to dose, right?
+
+[43:53] And um, so with the uh vegan fish sauces that were coming out of Vietnam, they're hard to obtain, they're not always readily available for people. So I was like, can I reverse engineer this with accessible ingredients and have people make it at home? And like, hell yeah, you can, and it's so damn fun because then you're like understanding how you're building that scaffolding of flavors. And wonderfully enough, like canned pineapple juice is part of that. Right.
+
+[44:22] What do you think? It's just bringing that like a sweetness to it or what sweetness, a slightly um strangely fermenty aspect. It was like the weirdest this kind of round, because in Vietnamese, like um the term for savoriness is dumb da, which means like profound. And then um even like like monastery and glutamate, the term for it is bot nock, which is sweet powder. So my understanding of a umami is really something that is profoundly savory sweet.
+
+[44:52] And so using uh the pineapple um juice kind of gets me into that zone. And then there is seaweed involved in there because I wanted to inject the um the piscine quality. Like there are a lot of Did you triple seaweed that one or double seaweed? Double seaweed it. And then uh you're gonna need a little bit of um I use marmite in there for that kind of you know, yeast extract, baby.
+
+[45:19] Yeah. Joe Hazen's uh co-signing on the on the on the marmite, yeah. Yeah. And then you need a flavor enhancer because uh you have salt in there, but the salt gets to a certain salinity level and then the crystallization happens, and then you want to just send it over the top. And I'm into flavor enhancers.
+
+[45:34] And I do agree with you. Dosing with MSG, if you've not used it um a lot in your life, it's tricky. Yeah. I can go a little bit, you're like, it's a little under, it's a little under, and then when you go over, it's very clearly MSG. Yes.
+
+[45:47] And it tastes like it. So whatever the Umami Institute people have told us, like MSG has no flavor, it has a flavor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you want to combine it though. So see, I'm always like using MSG with other uh with salt or with soy sauce or with fish sauce.
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+[46:00] Because the MSG is just there to nudge. It's not there to define flavor. But if you added it to your sesame salt, sugar. Oh damn. Yeah.
+
+[46:09] So that was a good idea. Yeah. Hey John, she she grinds up the sesame, salt, and sugar into a powder. Yeah. And it becomes this magical little condiment you just sprinkle on things.
+
+[46:20] And um, it's something that Buddhist uh people love, but also my family's Catholic, and my parents grew up with having a little jar of that in their homes. And um, we would add it just to a little rice, you know. It's kind of like for a khaki sort of, but you know, without but finer, right? Finer, much finer. And even the nori, you make a nori dust, it seems like it's finer.
+
+[46:40] It is, it is. The nori dust looks like uh graphite, it's just really beautiful. And I use that uh to replace uh dry shrimp sometimes. How much of a mess is it? You know, you gotta like back off and and and turn away, it's just like let the blender rest for a while.
+
+[46:55] Speaking of mess, what is your kitchen made out of? You have a recipe and you're like, you could use you could use dried turmeric or you could grate a bunch of turmeric and you're and like what is your kitchen look like? Oh my god, like I'm so frightened of turmeric, fresh turmeric. I love it, but I'm so frightened of it. Do you have a tech technique that not ruin everything you own?
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+[47:15] You know, I uh I I protect my counters. They're white. Yeah, oh my god. But but you know what? You gotta like attack, you gotta lean in, you know, to like really clean that turmeric off.
+
+[47:26] But I just am very careful. And I just use a little bit at a time. And even, you know, turmeric like ground turmeric, some of the beautiful turmerics um that we're getting from overseas from places like burlap and barrel and Diasporico, um, they're like super strong. And a little bit of it, man, you know, all of a sudden your counters stained. But Barkeeper's friend is a wonder.
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+[47:46] And and soft scrub. Okay, when you're at the market and you know how sometimes you'll see, you'll see the turmeric, and it'll be kind of it'll be kind of like not really orange or would you rather have ground at that point? Or would you, or do you think the the I always like the color? I I I love the color in like drinks and stuff, but do you think there's a huge flavor difference? I I always feel like it's not as good when it's not the right color.
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+[48:10] Am I wrong? It depends. I that's not terrible. I like break off a piece and chew on it to see what the flavor is like. I like scratch a little part of the body.
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+[48:20] But they could totally tell. I know. There's a lady, you know. I'm also the one who got goes through all the ginger to make sure that it's like got some some punch to it. So I'm always scratching the bottom and tasting it.
+
+[48:29] Do you like the So like do you do you see when I'm buying ginger, sometimes I'm like, mmm, am I gonna get the big fibery one? Am I gonna go for the younger one? And I know they're entirely different, but I use them kind of for the same applications. Am I a terrible person? No.
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+[48:45] No, you're not bad. Yeah. I forgive you. It I do the same thing, but I I try to go for for uh ginger that has like a kind of yellow, you know, flesh, and when I break it off, it has like some hairs sometimes. But it's like tougher to prep, right?
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+[48:59] Yeah. Yeah. And then exactly. If you're gonna if it's gonna stay in, if it's gonna stay until the end. Right.
+
+[49:04] Yeah. But then I also like go for the chubby ones that have few arms, because then prep it's a lot easier. Yeah. You know what I like in your in your books? All of your books, when you specify uh star and east, you always specify the number of points so that if someone has one that's broken in half, you're like, no, nope, no.
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+[49:21] Thank you. Thank you. So as my copy editor was like, just say how many star on east. And I'm like, no, no, no. You have never even cooked with it.
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+[49:30] You are not thinking of the home cook. Yeah. 16 robust points. That's right. Not just little puny ones.
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+[49:37] Yeah, yeah. Big ones. Well, actually, it's interesting. In the book, you go through a lot of that at the beginning. You're like, yo, listen, like, because you're gonna give like standard for people who are used to American cookbooks, like measurements, but you're like, this is what it really means, because you're like, how are you gonna like what's an onion, right?
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+[49:53] What's an onion? Right. We we say that a medium onion. What the hell does that look like? And then we're all staring at the onion bin at the market, trying to pick out a medium onion.
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+[50:01] And sometimes a medium onion's the size of a softball that day. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Medium onion to me has no meaning. Also, you you go through garlic, you're like, P.S.
+
+[50:08] when I say garlic, this is what I mean. That's the way to do it. Tell them what you mean. And really, all that stuff is fungible anyway. They're gonna people are gonna add however much garlic they want.
+
+[50:15] That that's very true. But it's very true. But you know, I want them to get understand where my palate is, and then they can do whatever they want. There's you can't ruin anything in that book. Right.
+
+[50:24] You know what's something I've never made, and when you're reading this book, like every you're like, I gotta make green onion oil. And then like you'll you'll forget about it for a couple minutes and you read one, I need to make green onion oil. And then you go and it's like green onion oil, like green onion oil, I mean the fish sauce, obviously, but green onion oil is like one of the stars of this book. And uh and now I need to now I need to have it. And you can just microwave it.
+
+[50:42] Yeah, and how green does it get? It gets pretty green, especially if you add a little baking soda. Yeah, yeah. You uh you mentioned that uh you have a couple of recipes where you maintain the green uh with baking soda. Yeah, uh, you know what, Dennis, you know what I'm gonna do?
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+[50:55] I'm gonna I'm gonna spin that in my spinzall to get all the oil out. All the oil, all of it. Because I don't like the waste. Yeah, I know. Yeah.
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+[50:59] Ingredients are costly these days. Yeah, but now I want that green onion and how much that does the onion flavor just really permeate the oil. If you put a lot in. I'm gonna put that in. The other day I also uh added fresh herbs to it.
+
+[51:14] Yeah. It was really lovely. Which herbs? Um gar uh dill and cilantro. I had you know, like you trim the bottoms.
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+[51:22] Yeah. Instead of like throwing away, I just chopped them up and threw it in there too. I've had um the taste is okay, but I've had mm medium luck with color with uh basil. Oh yeah, basil just poops out. Yeah, it turns gray.
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+[51:36] It's like such, you know, we want it to express itself and retain its fresh beauty, but it's a it poops out when it's cooked. Parsley. Bang! Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Boom!
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+[51:45] Yeah, yeah. Green. Yeah, yeah. Mint also poops out too. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[51:49] Well, yeah. Mint mint is like mint, just let mint be what it's gonna be. Don't try to force it to do something it doesn't want to do. Yeah. Although many people do successfully, just not me.
+
+[52:00] Um, so a couple of questions. Pickled, your pickled mustard green. When I buy pickled mustard green, unfortunately, it doesn't come in brine, it comes vacuum-packed in like individual vacuum-packed must. So you have a recipe for making it and a soup that uses the brine. But here's my question.
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+[52:17] Yours is part salt fermented, and there's vinegar in it to begin with, is and sugar. Interesting because uh you ever you ever done I eat a lot of sauerkraut, like a lot of sauerkraut. And so I'll make it, but then I eat it too fast. I don't have storage to make enough sauerkraut for the amount of sauerkraut I eat, if that makes sense. Anyway, so I normally make it with regular European sauerkraut cabbage.
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+[52:44] You know what I mean? But once I made it with Napa, and it didn't taste right because Napa doesn't have as much sugar in it. Yes. And Napa is a lot more watery. Yeah.
+
+[52:56] And it doesn't have the bite of European cabbage. Correct. Yeah. But like you it tastes more different fermented than it does even fresh. Huh.
+
+[53:04] Anyway, so I was interested in the sugar addition to the mustard greens. And I was interested in vinegar and salt for the fermentation. And whether is that traditional or is that something that like you're adding to it or that's a recipe that is from my mom and that just kind of kickstarts the process. Some people like traditionally you would take them the uh mustard greens, and they're not regular mustard greens that what we think of as the very thin, curly leafed. It's veiny.
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+[53:33] Yeah, it's like it's it's got this beautiful, like thick mid-rib and very frilly um edges. It's almost like a skirt, a lovely woman's skirt and a gown, but um, it's got this bite to it. And traditionally people would let the greens sit outside and dry. And this particular method I think kind of speeds that up a little bit. And that ratio is something that my mom has used for decades, and it really works out.
+
+[54:05] And the thing is that you can control that bite. It kind of at the beginning, nothing seems to be happening, and then all of a sudden it gets really funky as it sits around. And I I it's a combination of all of those things. You know, Dave, I don't really know the the chemical reactions, but but it works. Yeah.
+
+[54:22] And I've seen like other recipes, you know, take a little bit longer and be a little fussier, but um, this is something that has really, really worked out for her. And I add a little bit of MSG to it sometimes because you know those products that you were talking about that you're buying, um, they oftentimes contain a little bit of a flavor enhancer in them. They're coming in from Thailand and and probably uh China. Yeah, I think they also there's a preservative in them, I think. There is it, yes.
+
+[54:47] That's noticeable, yes. And it's kind of tastes tinny or metallic y something. Even though it's in vac plaque, yeah, plastic. No, no, I totally agree. So you make it at home, and and yeah, the brine is really lovely.
+
+[54:57] And I don't like to waste brine, I like to use it whenever I can. Right. But so I so the salt level, I'm wondering whether you add the vinegar or the salt level is like it's not zero. It's mild, it's very mild. Because you're using in this soup, you're using it in a soup.
+
+[55:11] So I was like, oh, so like Yeah, no, but I was surprised when she gave me that recipe how mild that brine was. I was like, really, mom? And she goes, yeah, because the mustard greens will just take care of itself. Well, the vinegar must protect it a little bit so that like uh, you know, no weird bacteria can kick start into it. Yes, or something like this.
+
+[55:28] You know what I mean? Yeah, and and it's the kind of thing where I feel like it's age-old wisdom cooking. She's like 89 now, you know, she's like, This is how I do it. I'm like, why? She goes, This is just how we do it.
+
+[55:41] Me and the ladies. Except you change her on one thing. Uh, we're gonna run out of time, but Quinn has one question, but let's talk about first of all, let's talk about these uh steamed uh rice rolls. Where the hack. Yeah.
+
+[55:52] Okay. I mean, because that is like I I've only ever tried to make uh the Hong Kong style. Yes, of Chong Fun. Yeah. And uh uh it sucks.
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+[56:01] Yeah. Making it sucks. So for those of you who don't know, you make a rice batter, you cast it onto like a fabric, and you steam the fabric, and then you pray it releases from the fabric and you're burning yourself and you don't have a steamer that big. Everything sucks. Everything's bad, right?
+
+[56:14] Uh I tried it only one time now. Uh I'm sure it's just as hard to make the Vietnamese version. It is. It's even harder because they're they're thinner. So Bankun uh steamed rice uh rolls are are done with a thinner batter and um steamed traditionally over uh fabric, or you can do it in a skillet, but they're just a pain in the ass.
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+[56:36] And you can eat them faster than you can make them. Oh, yeah. That's the thing. This is why you go to a restaurant. Exactly.
+
+[56:40] Or you have somewhere like your your mother or grandmother or auntie make them. But this particular method uh it requires rice paper, like sturdy rice paper that you purposefully over soak, my friends, so that they kind of become like these, it's almost like jellyfish or pieces of tissues that are floating in water. Then you fill them and then you very quickly steam them or microwave them. I steam them because you can control the heat a little bit better. And then all of a sudden you have the rice rolls.
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+[57:07] Right. But key, key, you don't use the hot water for the oversaker. No, no, it is room temperature water, and just let it sit there for like eight to ten minutes. And you do like I I do smaller quantities of you know, like eight rice papers at a time in a large pan. And um, it's the only time where I would over soak rice paper because I'm always telling people, don't oversoak rice paper because then that'll never stick and you they won't seal for your rolls.
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+[57:31] You're like, just touch the water, just touch it. Yeah, yeah, just like dunk and pull. Yeah. Or what about those pizza things where you're not even, you're just like painting water on the one side. And sandwiching the rice paper together.
+
+[57:41] I'm so glad you picked up on this because like it's like, you know, these are weird hacks that you could do with rice paper that you never thought of. Well, important though, why don't you describe which brands to buy, which brands not to buy, and why it matters. I am a three ladies and bamboo tree uh two Foucault brand rice paper. Those are are they're sturdier, they're made of tapioca and rice, and they tend to be a little thicker. So if you go with all tapioca rice paper, and I I just want y'all to know rice paper used to be made of all rice, but now it's tapioca and rice because then you don't require like super hot water to rehydrate them.
+
+[58:14] But um, and sometimes there's more tapioca than rice listed, but you want like a certain sturdy thickness. Um, and that's going to allow you to roll up um your um uh freshung salad rolls easier. Um, but also like for there's an hack for oven frying imperial rolls because people don't want to deep fry. I know you would. Uh yeah.
+
+[58:36] I know you would. But you have an air fryer. So you could do these in the air fryer. I don't believe uh I I don't believe in the term air frying. Go back to terminology.
+
+[58:44] Oven frying, what should we call it? Like uh like uh, you know, uh you know, uh what hot air circulation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, forced convection. Yeah, forced forced convection like wind tunnel cooking.
+
+[58:55] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, hot wind tunnel cooking. Um because frying is frying. Frying's oil. Yeah, you're right.
+
+[59:00] You're right. Oh, speaking of frying, you like do you think the result is the same? Here's the thing about like pan frying tofu. Isn't it actually just easier to deep fry tofu? You know, sometimes it sticks.
+
+[59:11] Can you ever notice like your deep fry tofu, and no matter what you do, they all kind of like combine and they become like twins and you're like separating them. So pan frying is a little easier. With your pan frying though, you're like, listen, if it sticks, pull it off, let it sit from there, it'll unstick. Don't worry about it. Is that is that how you go?
+
+[59:29] You're mellow about it. I am mellow because it's just food, you know. I would be aggressive and I would ruin it. Well, right, because you'd be like prying them, but then if you're not. In in hot oil, they become Siamese twins practically very easily.
+
+[59:41] They just gravitate towards each other and stick. So and you know what? People love deep fried food, but oftentimes they really don't want to deep fry at home. Yeah. I'm I wish that I had not, but uh, you know, just a couple of days ago on Sunday, but I know you and your worth it though.
+
+[59:55] It was worth it. Uh oh my gosh. Uh Quinn, let's get to the question we have on Patreon. What do we got? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[1:00:01] Okay. Do you know of any more extensive resources on making the jerky? Your blog has a recipe from long ago, but wondered if you might have an updated recipe or know of any books. The Kubo beef jerky has a moist, soft quality that's hard to replicate, but it's my favorite. Then there's also other styles like Kordola Chen.
+
+[1:00:29] Have you made any of them and have any tips? And which style of jerky do you recommend for the salad in the book? I buy it. I buy beef jerky. You can, you know, you need so little that uh if you can get to an a Southeast Asian market and get, you know, Asian beef jerky like Chinese Vietnamese, that's great.
+
+[1:00:46] And there are like beef jerky shops in Little Saigon. But the sheeted soft ones. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, you know, here, like if there's some if you can bend them, it's it's a little bit easier, you know, um, because you're gonna toss it in a salad. You're not chewing on the a whole piece of it so that your saliva can kind of soften the beef.
+
+[1:01:03] So it's going I I have not uh updated that beef jerky recipe, but now I think I'm gonna go home and and do it just for for you and your listeners. All right, please, please. Uh Dennis man, you didn't give us any of your amazing base profundo. Give us some of that voice. Well, uh, thanks for having me, Dave.
+
+[1:01:21] Oh my god. I'm happy to come back anytime. I think you're you should come back and just just you and then the man you, you know, Nastasia, you gotta tell Phil maybe Dennis can replace Phil Bravo as our as our base, our base voice of choice. I mean, you know, he also he also was a singer in uh yeah. So he can he can do he maybe he can do the grinch.
+
+[1:01:43] If Phil's not gonna do the Grinch this year, I'm just saying. Call me. I'm around. Oh my god. Voice so good.
+
+[1:01:51] Um who do we have next week, John? What's coming up? I don't remember. Quinn, who do we got next week? Uh nobody next week, actually.
+
+[1:01:59] No tangent to that. No tangent. All right, Patreon. We're gonna get to all of your questions. The week after, we have um Abby Belingick, and she's a uh Filipino American peace with a new book.
+
+[1:02:15] Love it. Uh all right now, qu uh since I have 44 seconds. In the a lot of your stuff with the seaweed that where you're adding the seaweed for the umami, you are doing it cold. Yeah. Uh you don't ever try heating, you don't like to heat the combu.
+
+[1:02:29] I usually like to heat the combu up to a certain certain level. I'm just curious about the choice. No, sometimes I do. Um, I think like in one uh recipe, I do uh actually I I throw combo into my uh vegan noodle soup uh broths, right into the pressure cooker. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[1:02:46] That one. Right, but I mean for like the fish sauce and whatnot. Oh, yeah, no, because uh it's you know, it's just so little in the fish sauce. And now I have to try this freaking rice batter from Huey, the the crepe. Oh god, yes, you do.
+
+[1:02:59] And soak your own rice and then grind it, Dave, because you will like I would do it all different all the three ways because I have variations are attested. I watched, uh, watched the videos, I was like, oh my god. So good. It's like a fried rice taco. Let me ask you a question, though.
+
+[1:03:12] In the book, obviously, you're trying to be a little less profligate with the oil. Is it easier with more oil or harder with more oil? Um, it is it doesn't really we've got really good skillets. You use like a nice, you know, carbon steel skillet, good, but add more oil, Dave, because I know you're an oil man. Yeah, baby.
+
+[1:03:29] You know what I want? I want one of those little six-inch fans with a long handle. Oh my god. We'll set you up in the sidewalk. Got a side business, side hustle for you and your kids.
+
+[1:03:37] It'll pay for their college. Uh yeah, right. Uh listen, Andrea, thanks for coming uh on. The book Evergreen Vietnamese is available now. Get it from Kitchen Arts and Letters with a Patreon discount and a signed copy if they're still available.
+
+[1:03:48] Uh thanks for being on Dennis as well. Uh come back with your amazing voice and we'll talk about DeAndi, amazing restaurant here in New York City. Uh appreciate it. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cookie Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan at Rockefeller Center, News Dance Studios, joined as usual with John in the studio with me. How are you doing? Doing great. Yeah.
+
+[0:23] Oh, yeah. Extra Ker pal. Yeah. Yeah, rocking the panels. We got Joe Hazen.
+
+[0:29] Hi guys. Yeah. Everything good? Everything's great. All right, going down the Eastern Seaboard.
+
+[0:35] We got Jackie Molecules in DC. Hey. Yeah. How you doing? Everything good?
+
+[0:41] I'm good. Going back up a slightly east. Nastasia Lopez in Stanford, Connecticut. How you doing? Do good.
+
+[0:48] You hammering things? Things being hammered. Yes. Nice, nice. And then holding down the fort way over in the in the west, west, west, north.
+
+[0:57] Uh, Quinn, how you doing? Hey, I'm good. Hey, question for you, Quinn that I got on the uh, what's that called? Instagram. Uh have you done I've been doing a lot of frozen drink posts recently, and so and a lot of people have been testing the stuff in creamy.
+
+[1:11] Have you tested any of these recipes? And if you have not, will you test them in the creamy so that I can report to people that whether or not the it is a decent frozen drink maker? No, but uh, yeah, I will. The uh the sea rich and the frozen twine apple. Yeah, or you can go frose.
+
+[1:30] You can go froze right. But the the interesting thing about those three is they all want to be served at slightly different temperatures. Uh Sea Witch is the one that wants to be served at the coldest temperature, so it's probably the best way to go. Absolutely, I do not. I do it by texture.
+
+[1:47] I do it by texture, Quinn. All I know is that all of them are too hard in uh in a freezer, right? So Yeah, but I'm saying like the the creamy drops it by like eight degrees Celsius or upset, I guess. Yeah. Well, I don't know.
+
+[2:03] I mean, it might also depend uh I mean they have different whatever specific heats because whatever. Just you know, we've tested, you know, test it. Just test it and let me know, though. Just test it and let me know. That's all.
+
+[2:13] Uh all right. So we'll report back to people. Uh and when are we gonna do the big creamy fest anyway? When's uh Chris Young coming on and creamy the hell out of the room? Creamy's a girl.
+
+[2:23] I'm saying creamy and John's going, uh God. I I've been I've been ready for like nine months. We've just been waiting for Chris Young to come on. So what you're doing is you said you're you're you're blaming somebody else's what's happening. Run them under the bus.
+
+[2:39] Yeah, that's what's happening. Like publicly you're throwing them under the bus. Yeah, I'm just saying we have all been collectively waiting for him to be on to all the third disco. So now you're co-signing us on throwing them under the bus. Now it's not just you throwing them under the bus.
+
+[2:53] Now we're all throwing them under the bus too. All right. I see how it is. I see how it is. We like his uh we.
+
+[2:59] I like his thermometer, I have to say. His combustion engineering thermometer, I think, is quite a nifty little gadget or a piece of kit, as those weirdos say over there. Uh it's good. I like it. Uh I I recommend it.
+
+[3:15] Um you know why? So if you're d if let's say you're using like uh the APO precision or any sort of combi oven, right? And you don't want to wait forever for your fish to poach through. Right. I I talked about the fish I was doing l like a couple weeks ago, right?
+
+[3:31] The all the bronzitos. Yeah, when I destroyed my my yeah. So you you can put it like three or four degrees higher, right? And do a delta T, which is so much faster without viciously overcooking it because it'll tell you when the internals hit the right temperature, and it does it, you know, even with a fish, you just jam it through the whole fish and and it just tells you that tells you the answer, which is nice. Yeah, it is.
+
+[3:52] Gives you some predictive. Yeah, it's good. And it's the only wireless uh thermometer, it's like that like seems to like work. The one can downside of this thermometer is somebody is going to dip it into oil to use it or candy and use it as a candy or an oral thermometer, and they will ruin it. They will they will destroy it.
+
+[4:09] You know what I'm saying? Yeah. That's that's gonna happen. Might happen to me, because you know how I am. Very true.
+
+[4:17] I wonder whether he sells just the just the the probe. I don't know, whatever. Anyway, so what has happened in the past week, other than so Quinn and Nastasia and I are diligently working on our pre-sale for the uh Spinzall 2.0. Quinn thinks it should be 2.0 and not just two. What do you think, John?
+
+[4:36] We tend to we we've agreed with him at this point, but what do you think? I think 2.0 is not what we call the series all. I don't know. No professional. Oh, there shows all internally we did say 2.0.
+
+[4:47] I'd go with a point oh. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Again, my my other concern is that that's what you kept saying in all the videos. Oh, well.
+
+[4:57] There you go. Put it to yourself. There will not be a 2.1. If we if we if we do it, if we do another spinzall after this, it's gonna be spins all XP, like Windows XP. Not really.
+
+[5:15] Not really. Uh anyway, we're diligently working on it, and we hope to have it soon, right, guys. Yeah, yeah. If it's not soon, we're in deep doo-doo. Deep dude.
+
+[5:30] Hey, uh, one though note, we got a note from the factory that we think we're gonna, so for those of you that don't know what a spinz all is, it's a centrifuge that Booker Index had built in the past and hopes to build again the only centrifuge that is uh good for bars and restaurants, and uh we were able to get the factory to accommodate some user feedback. Uh we are gonna be able to increase the pump speed. So for those of you that use use the pump, the uh uh the external peristaltic pump for other kitchen tasks, we think we're gonna be able to up the speed like almost to double and keep the low speed the same. Nice, huh? Yeah, it's good.
+
+[6:03] Yeah, that is good. Good. Yeah, yeah. Because one thing that people don't realize, you don't have to spin everything. If you let's say you have like a 23-liter cambro full of, I don't know, watermelon juice or grapefruit juice, and it like like 80% of it is settled down, right?
+
+[6:17] So if you pour the stuff off the top, you're apt to like make a mistake and like make it cloudy again. You can just put the tube in and pump it out, but it takes forever at only 250 milliliters a minute. But at like half a liter a minute, you could pump, you know, pretty quick. And you don't have to look at it. And then you can just spin the residue at the bottom, batch by batch.
+
+[6:35] That's the fastest way to get the clearest product with large amounts of volume. Anywho, this is all gonna be eventually in the videos, although those won't be in the initial videos when we launch, right, guys. Yeah. Yeah. Uh so anything interesting happened to any of you over the past week?
+
+[6:50] Preferably food related. Preferably food. I had a really, really good omakase last night at the DC Nakazawa, which I finally feel okay going to because as you know, it was in the Trump Hotel, which is now the Waldorf Astoria. So is he no longer involved with it? As I understand, he is no longer involved.
+
+[7:11] You know, most of those things were just licensing bills anyway. You know what I mean? Of course. Of course. It was a big deal in DC when it happened, though.
+
+[7:18] Everybody like uh hated them for taking that deal and opening there. Yeah. Um I'm sure that the new owners that you know nothing about are the best people on earth. I'm kidding. Oh, yeah, for sure.
+
+[7:32] The famously humanitarian theme behind the Waldorf Astoria. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, do you know that when I was uh the very first anniversary of going out with so we're still you know going out with uh Jen? I took her to the Waldorf Astoria, like you know, for a 22 or 21 year old guy.
+
+[7:53] I spent my whole money on their like uh Sunday brunch with the and at the in the peacock room, right? And so it's like this all you all you yeah, it's that's all you can eat brunch, it's you know super fancy for you know, this is like 1993, right? So it's like fancy for me in 1993, you know, fancy. And uh I go there and I suddenly realize that at the Waldorf, the champagne is not unlimited. And it's quickly gonna like triple our bill.
+
+[8:28] You know what I mean? So I felt bad. She self limited to two glasses, which was nice. Didn't bankrupt me. Very romantic, very romantic.
+
+[8:38] Yeah, yeah. Anyway, um, I I had sex with a famous rock star at the Waldorf when I was 19. You s wait, you sat with or served? What happened? You what you wait.
+
+[8:50] Did you say had sex with? Yeah. Which famous rock star are you allowed to say? Why would I ever say? I don't know.
+
+[8:57] Well, let me ask you this. Was the room nice? Was it in the room? Yes. Okay, okay.
+
+[8:59] Not in the peacock room. All right. No. Which one's the best? There wasn't cock.
+
+[9:10] Wait, so what era is this? Uh nine I was nineteen. You can't do that kind of math. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[9:19] I don't know, ninety, two thousand. Alright. That's a decent year. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[9:25] Good times. A lot of good rock stars around then. Yeah. Who's your favorite? Yeah.
+
+[9:29] All right. So now I I can feel if we were all just alone and not on the radio, Jack would start the guessing game now. He would just keep guessing. Absolutely correct. Jack would know.
+
+[9:40] Yeah. He he would look into Nastasia's eyes and just throw names out. You know what I mean? So he and I have talked about this before. Yeah.
+
+[9:47] All right, all right, right, all right. And so since you know, without telling me any information, good rock star or garbage? Are we like I don't think I know. All right. Oh.
+
+[9:58] Like like shading towards Nickelback or I'm just curious. Like what you know, what the Nastasia, the 19 year old Nastasia was a nickelback head or what? You know what I mean? No, no, no, please. What was the one last question about it?
+
+[10:11] I like the bird chirping. That's very nice, whoever has it. Yeah. Was the rock star too old for you at the time and you ignored it because you liked their work? All right.
+
+[10:21] No, no, no. He was like seven years older, but that's not that old. No, I mean, well, nine nineteen to twenty six, that's a lot. I mean, not a lot. No offense.
+
+[10:31] I'm just saying it's a lot, but whatever. Uh nice. Well, this is an interesting start. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[10:37] Yeah. Uh what about you, Quinn? Any good foodie foods stuff? Uh, made some bread. Uh?
+
+[10:43] Me too. What was your bread story? I did a sourdough, yogurt whey, uh, milk bread. So why do you need both sourdough and yogurt whey? Uh, because I have yogurt whey.
+
+[11:00] But I'm saying, if you have the yogurt whey, which is acidic, then why are you also doing the sourdough? Isn't that just acid on acid? And by the way, do you know that if you read all of the bread literature prior to the sourdough explosion, you know, in the in the 20th century, everybody hates on sour bread. They all hate on it. They're like, by the way, because they were worried about it being somehow poisonous.
+
+[11:23] I'm talking like the 1800s. They were like, and there's no trace of sourness. None, no trace of sourness. Sylvester Graham is so worried about sourdough bread that he he likes sour bread, he writes passages about how you know the best bread is sweet and not without sugar, not sour. So anyway, so like uh, so what was the what was the double sour?
+
+[11:41] And was it good? I mean, it was very good. Honestly, could have been more sour. Well, all right. So, like you're saying it wasn't so sour that the dough went slack and it had that like weird slack slackness that like chewiness.
+
+[11:58] I also I also did mill uh some flour for it. What kind of flour? Bishop. Ah, yeah, that's Canadian, good Canadian uh hard spring wheat. I was doing uh I have my test this week, uh one of my tests this week, because I've you know had to make bread several times this week, is uh was I did a red fife with a spring wheat and a red fife with uh winter wheat, because red fife can be grown either.
+
+[12:20] And you know, in general, uh people with the kind of milling I do seem to prefer um the taste of winter wheats, like a little bit softer winter wheats, like Rouge uh, you know, Belle de Rouge, Rouge de Belle, whatever it's called, and uh Rouge de Bourgogne and uh Belle de Bourgogne, whatever. Anyway, something with like pretty red, whatever, French, something. You know what I mean? Which is a which is a moderately soft, hard winter wheat. Uh, anyways.
+
+[12:48] So I did red five spring, red fife winter. You can see it on my Instagram, and I I put them in two different colored baskets, and I was like, tell me the difference between these. And people were like, they taste the same. They're the same. I was like, no, that's not kind of what I was hoping for, but whatever.
+
+[13:05] It is what it is, right? You don't get to choose what the results will be. You just get to choose the test. And it's a one-off, so it doesn't matter because they're from different farms. I mean, whatevs.
+
+[13:13] Whatevs. Anyway, whateves. Typically a spring wheat's gonna have a higher protein, but it used to be they were a little harsher. Whatever, I digress. So uh what about what about uh what about you?
+
+[13:23] Uh what about you, John? Did uh you already say anything? Uh I've got a new pasta coming on the menu. So I don't know, asparagus, uh blanched and puree to keep some, you know, little coins to throw in at the end, rust some spring onions, some spring garlic, mix that in there. Uh do you use uh what do you use a stock base to puree it like chicken?
+
+[13:45] No, it's just let it just as is, and then I tammy it, which I'm Oh, what a jerk. Even after even after you vite up Vitamix it, you tammy it. Yeah. Oh, what a jerk we I am uh I am so continental, I'm so franch. I must put it through the tummy.
+
+[14:02] Yeah. That's so weak. Oh my god. You don't have to do you do that? Are you that more on this like I'll do it because no one else is gonna sit here with a squeegee and push it through this stupid thing?
+
+[14:12] I mean, I do it because it's what comes off my station. Uh huh. Oh yeah, all right. Well, at least you're just punishing yourself. Yeah.
+
+[14:18] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You but you do you do the old school uh like uh refresh to keep it green and all that nonsense? I don't know if I know about that.
+
+[14:25] You know, you when you put you blanch it hard, yeah, and then you immediately ice water it to freeze the green in place. That is what I do, yeah. Yeah, because if you some people, like Nils used to do what he would do is he would blend it quick and then put the puree into sheet trays on ice, and it was fast enough to get it to not go um and it didn't require the big like going back and forth into the water, but I don't I don't know that it makes much of a difference. But uh man, the Tammy, and how much is left on the other side of the Tammy? Not as much as I wish.
+
+[14:58] Yeah, exactly. So quit doing it. It's God that wasn't an that was something that was invented prior to the the Vitamix. Yeah. Well the problem with I feel like the problem with the Vitamix is if you let it go long enough to get it to that level of puree, you're gonna heat it up and then it's gonna affect the color.
+
+[15:15] No. Well, okay. So like, I mean, depends on how hot you're gonna get it again. I mean, uh I mean you're not gonna make it steaming, right? No.
+
+[15:24] Yeah. Yeah. My old uh the the uh the Giuliano Buggiali pasta recipe is I believe with chicken stock and asparagus. Okay. Delicious.
+
+[15:34] Yeah. And that's the one where I would make it with broccoli because broccoli is cheap and available year round. Yeah. And he almost spit my eye when I told him. I was like, what do you think?
+
+[15:43] He's like, terrible. Awful. But people like it. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[15:49] Yeah. Broccoli, also easier to keep green. Yeah. You know? Yeah.
+
+[15:54] Anyway. I'm trying to do like the whole spring thing, you know. Oh, yeah? Yeah. All right.
+
+[15:58] How show me with your show me like which one of your fingers is the right width of the asparagus that you're using. I know like I'm not gonna get an argument with everyone about like what with width of asparagus to use. Some people like the skinny asparagus. No. Yeah.
+
+[16:13] No. No. No. I hate it. But there are some people who say that they get uh thin asparagus that isn't like uh dental floss.
+
+[16:22] And if you could buy find one, unless you're using asparagus as dental floss, I would say moderate. I don't need the giant ones. No, but I prefer the large thing like between medium and XL. Yeah. So as a Belgian, what are your feelings on the on the on the white?
+
+[16:40] I haven't I don't know if I've ever had good white asparagus to judge, yeah. You had bad white asparagus. Yeah. And what made it bad? Stringy.
+
+[16:50] But you gotta peel the hell out of it. I know I did. Um, and it's just still wasn't good. It was bland. I don't know, just not what I was hoping.
+
+[16:57] Not what you were hoping for? You were hoping for uh yeah, exactly. It's kind of got that rep. If it's not that the dumbest thing on earth would be to puree white asparagus. Yeah.
+
+[17:07] That would be dumb. Yeah. Yeah. I've had very good white asparagus, but what that really means is very good Hollandaise sauce. Because asparagus is a holiday sauce.
+
+[17:17] They friends. They good friends. Yeah, yeah. Uh Hollandaise sauce, by the way. Like when I was growing up, everyone was like, oh, Hollandaise sauce.
+
+[17:26] Just hot mayonnaise. Hollandaise sauce, different ratio, right? Different ratio. But if you can make a mayonnaise, you can make a holiday sauce. Yeah.
+
+[17:34] There's no no mystery to it. Yeah. Right. One of the people who worked at the restaurant before I started, back when we they had brunch, there was a Hollandaise on the menu. And this guy didn't feel like going downstairs to get lemons to add to it.
+
+[17:49] Oh god. He just did butter and eggs. God. Terrible. Yeah.
+
+[17:58] Yeah. Well, why would he think that that's okay? I don't know. To use Booker's, that's Booker's phrase. Why did he think it was okay?
+
+[18:06] He says that all the time. That's one of his favorite things to say. Next to uh if you ask Booker how much he likes something, he says, not as much. And that means no. No, that's his polite way of telling you to F off.
+
+[18:18] Not as much. He won't say as what? Not as much as anything else I like, basically. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[18:26] What about you, Joe? You got any good food? Uh let's see. I was actually cooking with asparagus yesterday. Um, making my son food.
+
+[18:35] Uh found this recipe, blended uh cantalone beans, um, a little bit half a lemon, and you saute up some asparagus, very, very like what half your pinky, and uh some garlic, a little white wine added there for him, put up some gamelli pasta added in the the the cantaloni beans. It was delicious. Starting the kid on wine early, I appreciate this. Yeah, it's nice to cook with wine. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[19:00] Yeah. That's a good give them a little sip. You know what I mean? It's you know, it's like I have to finally I have to constantly find food that doesn't require any egg. Yeah.
+
+[19:10] Um, our meatballs are eggs, they're great, but you know, they're not like real meatballs. Well, so what so that's a good question. What would be a good binder for uh an a non-egg protein binder for a meatball? We use flaxseed. Yeah.
+
+[19:24] Yep. Works very well. How much salt do you have in your meatball? Uh well, we don't like to add salt in for his meals. So we very I mean, just a small pinch.
+
+[19:29] Okay. So if you don't have a lot of salt, right? Yep. And uh he's okay with casein, you could try a small amount of uh transglutaminase that'll hold the meatball together. But if you do it with salt, it'll and you knead it, then it'll get hard like a like a like sarimi, right?
+
+[19:54] And so like that's why I asked how much salt is in it. So like salt, if you put salt into a meatball and you mix it without egg, and you mix it enough, it will turn into kind of a meat loafy dense thing, right? The proteins will come out and in general, you not looking to do that, so you don't do it, right? But uh even without that kneading with enough salt and meat glue, that that's gonna happen. But if you're doing a low salt version anyhow, uh a little bit of meat glue is gonna hold that together.
+
+[20:23] Um gluten's okay? Gluten's fine. So yeah, so the bread crumbs will help soften it up a little bit, and you can moisten the breadcrumbs with some non egg thing. All right, give it a shot. You can get you can get that from Modernist Pantry.
+
+[20:36] I think even Modernist Pantry sells their version on Amazon. I think they call it moo glue or something like that. Moo glue. Moo glue. Moo glue, which doesn't make a lot of sense because you can glue anything together, not just things that go moo, right?
+
+[20:48] Oink, tofu, and it doesn't really make a noise, but you can glue it together. Um, you know? Yeah. Fishes. Yeah.
+
+[20:56] Like what's a fish noise? Right? I guess if they if they take if they take air in, right? But like, you know, unless they just caught a fly, you don't really see bubbles coming out of a fish, right? Like when they come to the surface and they go shlap, then they have to get rid of that air.
+
+[21:15] But anyway. We again digress considering that this is a what, John? Supposed to be a no tangent Tuesday. These are not tangents though. These are all food related situations, more or less.
+
+[21:26] Did I miss anyone? Did I miss anyone's food stories? No? No. All right.
+
+[21:31] All right. So uh you want to uh if you have a question and you're listening on this no tangent 2J and you're a Patreon member, call your questions in to uh 917 410 1507. That's 917 410 1507. And John, why don't you tell them what they get uh for being a Patreon member and what's coming up in the next couple of weeks? Uh first off, you should go to Patreon.com slash cooking issues to sign up.
+
+[21:51] There's a bunch of different level uh tiered memberships and you get great little perks at every level. Uh prioritized question answering um when we don't have guests. Yeah, we're gonna answer the guest questions. We have to, right? And then we s we're saving your questions.
+
+[22:05] So there's a couple questions I know here that are late, but I'll apologize. All right, go ahead. Sorry. We'll always get to them. Yeah.
+
+[22:11] Um discounts at Kitchen Arts and Letters with uh authors that we have on board, and obviously a great slew of uh of guests. You know, we just meant we're talking about uh Chris Young. He's gonna be coming on at some point, hopefully soon. Next week we have the Filipino American Baker, correct, Quinn? Yes.
+
+[22:30] Whose name I'm getting. There we go. Yeah, I got a new book coming. And speaking of books coming out, today is the published day for uh Garrett Richard Ben Schaefer's Tropical Standard. They were on a little while ago when they were still pre pub.
+
+[22:44] They might come on again. I don't know. Hopefully. Yeah, go buy it. Yeah, we got them scheduled for after their little book tour.
+
+[22:50] Okay, I'm sure that they're gonna book's gonna be a Kitchen arts and Letters. So uh I don't know I don't know if we can I don't know if we can put it on a Patreon discount uh beforehand. Hey, did we ever get a discount with uh Edward's Age Meats for our Patreon folks? I think we did, yeah. Again, their product is good.
+
+[23:05] Yeah, yeah. Edward makes some really great, great stuff. I've been meaning to order from him. I'm gonna order from them because uh Dax is gonna have his uh his uh I'm graduating from high school dinner. Yeah.
+
+[23:15] He's like, I want steak. Yeah. His pork products also look really really good. Yeah, and he ships it frozen, so like it like the to get around the high shipping, what I would do is order a bunch and then like keep some in the in the freezer. It comes still hard frozen, so you don't need to worry about it.
+
+[23:30] So that way what you do is is you order whatever steak you're gonna have, and then you just fill the rest of the box with his hi with his uh hamburger mix. Yeah. Which is God it's God's hamburger mix. Yeah. Yeah, you know what I mean?
+
+[23:42] Order that too. Yeah. Yeah. I think Edwardsagemeats.com, everyone. Very, very good products.
+
+[23:48] Yeah. And maybe we'll get a we'll try to get him back on the on the Patreon for discount for our folks. I don't know. We'll see. We'll see.
+
+[23:54] I don't know what his margins are, whether he can accommodate it. Yeah. Or if he's like, uh, he's like Rancho Gordo. I've never discounted a bag of beans in 20 years. I have never discounted a bag of beans.
+
+[24:05] More than 20 years. Remember that? He doesn't talk like that. No. But he did say that.
+
+[24:08] Yes, he did. Yeah, yeah. However many years he's been in business. Which I kind of like because the idea is he's he's like beans are undervalued. I'm not undervaluing my beans.
+
+[24:15] Yeah. Nastassi and I are we look at each other, we're like, hmm, we undervalue everything that we do. Right? Yeah. That's true.
+
+[24:23] Yeah. I think like, is that why we started working together? Because we're both like, we don't deserve any better. Is that how it worked? No.
+
+[24:31] When we're working in the trash room. No, I think that you devalue more than I would like you to. Okay. Uh all right. Questions.
+
+[24:47] Uh from NFTN, what do you think that stands for? Is that some sort of acronym that I should know? I have I have no idea. I'm not looped into that lingo. Oh, you're officially old now.
+
+[24:56] Yeah. Yeah. NFT No, maybe. What's you mean no NFTs? Like no, yeah.
+
+[25:04] No, uh what does that stand for again? Non-fungible token or something like that? Yeah, yeah. NFT, comma no. Yeah, NFT.
+
+[25:12] No. Yeah. Did you Jack, did you ever uh uh get into that? Were you gonna do like NFTs of like whatever? Did was that ever on your radar?
+
+[25:21] I mean, yeah, yeah, I dabbled. You dabbled? Did you make any money off of it? Did you did? Yeah, you did?
+
+[25:28] Yeah. Yeah. Huh. Like a picture of a cat? Like what was it?
+
+[25:34] Basically. Yeah. All right. Nice. Nice.
+
+[25:37] Well, I'm glad that you were able to take someone else for their money with your cat picture. I'm sure it was a catty cat world. Yeah, yeah. It is. It it totally is.
+
+[25:47] Do people still like that used to be like the thing that people wanted was cat pictures. Is that still the thing that breaks the internet? Cat pictures? Uh I don't think so. I don't have a cat because uh I like cats, but uh I have too many people in the family allergic to them.
+
+[26:00] Whatever. Uh from NFT, no. If you don't have a centrifuge, well, sorry, I can't answer that question because I have a centrifuge. Now I'm just messing with you. Uh buy a centrifuge.
+
+[26:10] You should buy a centrifuge. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. If you don't have a centrifuge, is quick agar still the best at home method for Lime Juice clarification, or is Kesel Sol and Kitosan finding and filtering the way to go, or are there other methods?
+
+[26:23] All right, let's take this piece by piece. Uh you don'd have to use a mixture of pectin X and then Keselsaw and Chitosan and then filter it settle for a long time. The problem is with that is it if you don't want to get it, it's not gonna get fully clear. You're actually better off doing uh Kesel Sol, uh SPL, Kesel Sol, uh, and then just chitasan. And uh even though it's not gonna get 100% clear, it's gonna get a lot better settling.
+
+[26:58] If you add the second round of uh of Kesel Sol again, right, the way that we do when we use a centrifuge, then it it's much clearer, but you have a much lower yield, and then you just rack it off of the top because the fact that you've sucked those last little things out means that they float higher in the liquid than they would otherwise. Does that make sense what I just said? So I would go for if you're gonna do that, I would do a less clear, but just do SPL, kesel, and kitosan once. Uh at about four, and I would do about four grams of each per liter, right? 15 minutes in between the the kiesel salt and the kitesan.
+
+[27:38] Uh that's gonna take like a couple of hours to settle out, right? Quick agar works, you know, and you can get, you know, but the yield sucks, right? Too, because you're losing a lot and you have to heat it slightly, but it's good if you're gonna like carbonate and you can have that done in under an hour. Um, so yeah, that's still still the two best techniques that I know of. Um, maybe we'll come up with some better ones soon.
+
+[28:04] Um agar is gonna strip more flavor than the SPL will. Um we have some interesting new clarification stuff coming up soon. We uh because of Garrett, maybe you know, we'll talk about it when he comes on. Garrett discovered a way to clarify starches in the centrifuge. So now I'll I'll should I spoil it?
+
+[28:24] Should I spoil it since this is gonna not come out until Friday anyway? Yes. Yeah. Magnesium carbonate. So magnesium carbonate uh isn't very soluble in water, but it acts as a settling agent, right?
+
+[28:38] But unlike things like bentonite, which tend to strip a whole bunch of flavor, magnesium carbonate doesn't strip a whole bunch of flavor. So Garrett was using it in uh ginger juice because he was trying to make syrups, and he said it took some of the bite out of it. But what we did was we blended uh ginger, we mixed ginger juice and vodka, like crazy amount of ginger juice and vodka. It was like, it was like uh three to one vodka to ginger juice, so like intense ginger, like and then uh stir-in uh pectin X Ultra SPL and 2% weight of the solution, magnesium carbonate, which you can get on Amazon, Food Grade and Modernist Pantry is gonna start stocking it. You stir the magnesium carbonate in, uh, you know, you let your the pectin X do its work for you know 10-15 minutes, and you spin it out, and it is crystal clear and super strong.
+
+[29:34] Everyone was like, how strong could it be? They looked at me like I was a jerk. And you tasted it and stuff blew your head off, right? It was amazing. It was so incredible.
+
+[29:44] Yeah, it would make God and if no, if Nastasia likes it, that is something. Because, you know, and it would make God's mule. It would definitely make God's mule, you know, Moscow mule. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[29:57] Yeah. Anyway, uh, so that's coming on. I've tested it on sweet potato. I don't know why you would want to make a raw sweet potato liquor, because I don't like the flavor of it, but uh other people seem to like it when we make it. You can make an almost 100% clear sweet potato liquor and you can knock the starch out of starchy bananas.
+
+[30:13] So if you do a banana Houstino with a non-Cavendish banana that contains uh starch even when it's ripe, you can knock that starch out with magcarb. So magcarb is our new friend in the in the world of centrifuging. So now all that's left for us to figure out is how to clarify meat stocks with it. We haven't figured that out yet. Meat stocks would be good because uh meat stocks would be good because uh raft works, and if you're making like, you know, a giant stock pot, just go old school, right?
+
+[30:44] Um there used to be amazing ways to to do it enzymatically, but they they are not available anymore. Uh but um it would be useful to be able to do small quantities for very kind of high grade stocks, so then you could make like small amounts. So what we used to do is we would use like a chicken stock, and then we would reinforce the chicken stock with squab bones in a bag, right? So if you want to do that and get like a consume like with something like squab and have it be crystal, like it would be nice to be able to clarify small amounts of stock and then clarify it after the squab's been infused into it. Um that's because that's a great technique to take a poultry stock and then reinforce it with a small amount of high rent bones and and meat in a in a bag.
+
+[31:27] Great technique, like wings and stuff. Anyway, I love squab. Well, what are you doing, man? Don't you have the time to do this kind of research and figure that stuff out? Well, I mean, Matt Carb dropped on my plate because Garrett, Garrett, Garrett was reading Darcy O'Neill.
+
+[31:38] Okay. Right. And uh Darcy O'Neill was talking about the use of magnesium carb carbonate in clarifying uh uh oils, right? Like essential oils, I think, right? Okay.
+
+[31:49] And Garrett and Garrett was like, I wonder if it would do something for ginger. And he hasn't talked like that. And uh he added it and it did. And so then, you know, he texts me, and I'm like, I'm gonna tell people about it, but I'm gonna give you the credit for figuring it out. Here I am doing that.
+
+[32:05] Yeah, you know what I mean? And then I applied it to the Houstino technique because it's gonna make people want to buy the uh spins all more. Uh now it you can he's doing it and just letting it settle, and he's racking and he's losing some ginger juice because he's using it for ginger syrup. When you tested it in when I tested it in liquor, my yield wasn't very high with just letting it settle. So I would definitely recommend buying a centrifuge, just saying.
+
+[32:30] Uh techniques with liquor tend not to work well with agar. It just waters them down too much. You lose too much liquor and you're heating it too much. It's not good. I tend to like whenever I work with liquor, I use a centrifuge, right?
+
+[32:42] Uh, because you can't afford to. Oh, it must be graduation day. A man in a purple gown just walked back. Unless that could just be his look. Could be, yes.
+
+[32:50] I mean, I you know, do you know what I've always wanted to own? Uh okay, so you can't. The movie is unwatchable now. 1953 Peter Pan. Unwatchable, hard racist, terrible.
+
+[33:04] However, Captain Hook's jacket. Since I was a small boy, I've wanted Captain Hook's jacket. Oh my god. I would wear that around the city, if I could have it. You know what I mean?
+
+[33:17] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.
+
+[33:22] Yeah. Uh, but there's nothing, there's nothing online. I've every once in a while I'll look. There's nothing online between the $85 crappy costume one, which I would never wear because if you're gonna wear something like that, it better be nice. Like a swashbuckling jacket.
+
+[33:38] What do you mean? Like, it is based on a like a late 17th, uh, or you know, or eight late 17th or or or 18th century style of jacket, like a like a Charles II or Napoleonic or Regency style jacket called a what's the name of it? It's got Justaccore. And uh it is like like tight, tight around the waist with long flowing, and uh can be made. Uh I think originally it was wool.
+
+[34:06] Captain Hooks is red with uh with gold uh with gold sashing and piping and like a big sleeves. Uh but I would take it in velvet. I would definitely take it in velvet. But mainly the ones I've seen are either too ornate. I don't want to look like a band leader.
+
+[34:19] You want to look like Captain Hook. Captain Hook doesn't have a lot of garbage all over his. He's a pirate, not a freaking admiral. And there's almost nothing, nothing in between the $80 crappy costume versions and like $1,200 versions made by people who really know what they're doing. Like I'm in the market for like the $200 real, you know, medium nice Captain Hook coat.
+
+[34:42] I don't know, man. If it's a childhood fantasy of yours, and you've you've been you've mentioned this a lot. Yeah. Just spring for it, you know, treat yourself. It's a sh treat yourself, not to the a thousand dollar one.
+
+[34:53] I did it once in my life. I treated myself once, and it was to the Belgian waffle iron, and then our business fell through the floor right after. Well, maybe it was the pandemic and not the waffle iron. Maybe, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[35:03] Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. Uh now Dave. It was it was Billy Joel.
+
+[35:07] Remember? Were we allowed to say that on air that we were blaming the whole thing on the fact that we we finally so Nastasia, Nastasia, we were at a vegan juice event. We were working a vegan juice event uh in New York in the in the in the West Village. And all of a sudden, from her station, she used different words. Nastasia looks at me with hate and disgust.
+
+[35:38] I don't know whether it was towards me, herself, the world, everything. She just goes, crap. I'm like, what? What? It's like I'm supposed to be a Billy Joel right now.
+
+[35:49] She literally didn't go to her ticketed Billy Joel concert because she had she was working a vegan juice event. And this was a she didn't forgive herself, me, or the world ever, really. And so for years I said to her, Stas, you it's okay. You made a mistake. You can give yourself the Joel concert.
+
+[36:15] You can do it. You can go to the Joel concert. She's like, no, I don't deserve it. I've ruined it. It's ruined.
+
+[36:22] Am I accurate so far, Stas? Yes. And then I bought you tickets for your 50th, and then John almost made us miss it because he got it. No, you first you bought a ticket, and then the pandemic happened, then they all got canceled. Oh, right, yeah.
+
+[36:40] Then my toilet overflowed, and one of the tickets got all mangled. Mangled, i.e., it got toilet water all over it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[36:49] Anyway. All right, all right. The Billy Joel concert that we finally went to, it was like eight years after she initially missed the concert. Was fantastic. The guy still got it.
+
+[36:59] Yeah. The guy's still got it. You know what I mean? I highly recommend the Joel. And if you're one of those people out here listening who doesn't like Billy Joel, what's wrong with you?
+
+[37:06] Just reassess. You know what I'm saying? It's like, it's like I can understand not liking it because maybe the people who listen to it, or because I don't know why. Like, because some of it's super cheesy. But if you just remove yourself from yourself and just listen to it, it's good.
+
+[37:21] Remove yourself from yourself and just listen to it. Some of us have a lot of long island self-hate we have to get over, you know? I know. That's what I'm saying. That's why you have to remove yourself from yourself.
+
+[37:31] You're right, though. You're right. You're right. When I remove myself, it is great music. There's no denying it.
+
+[37:35] Yeah, yeah. All right. Um Shock Meister says, my friends host a dinner for giants. I'm gonna need your help here, guys, because I don't know. Uh I'm I once made an entirely miniaturized Thanksgiving.
+
+[37:48] Of course. Yeah. It's a pain in the butt. Yeah. Uh my friends host a dinner for giants potluck where all the food and drinks are miniature.
+
+[37:56] Any ideas for what to bring? Last time I made many foil-wrapped burritos. How do you get the rice small? How do you get the rice small in a miniaturized burrito? I don't know.
+
+[38:08] Like what's this what's the right? Well, maybe it's just Well, oh, so you're saying it's an actual like Juarez-style burrito? Which isn't like a California burrito. I'm assuming when someone says just when they say burrito or whatever, when they say burrito, but they don't specify, I'm assuming California style overstuffed rice monstrosity. I'm not saying it's bad.
+
+[38:27] I'm just saying it's it is a monstrosity. I mean, why do they have to make the rice smaller for this? Why can't they just put a smaller amount of rice and a smaller tortilla? Because that's not how bonsai's work. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[38:39] Like if you're gonna miniaturize something, imagine if someone handed you a burrito and each rice grain was the size of your fist. You'd be like, what is going on here? If your burrito had like five grains of rice in it and each one was like, you know, I don't know, like what what what is even that size? Cut them in half? What?
+
+[38:58] The rice grains? Right. So if you if you cook brokens, right? The problem with cooking brokens is they leak starch everywhere. So I'm thinking you have to move to a different grain and pretend it tastes like rice.
+
+[39:11] For instance, amaranth. Quinoa? Yeah. Quinoa. A little, yeah, am I say amaranth.
+
+[39:18] Amaranth. Yeah. If you want to make a scale burrito, it's gotta be with amarillo. No, millet, yeah. Sure.
+
+[39:26] But they've already done the burrito, right? Is that what they're saying? Or they're saying they're going to do a burrito. Yeah. Also, to have a scale thickness of flour tortilla, you'd be you'd be seeing through it.
+
+[39:38] Yeah, I think you're overthinking this. Yeah, like what's the what's the scale here? Because I mean, I've seen these. Have you seen those sushi bedrooms? No.
+
+[39:47] People have made um, they've made sushi, but they turned they've made these mock bedrooms with beds and drawers and clothes in the drawers. Out of sushi? Out of sushi, yeah. It's like, you know, the fish and the rice and the seaweed. They're pretty cool.
+
+[40:00] Yeah? But the rice is the same size. Everything is made out of press. Yeah, but right, right. But because you're not, you're you're you're making dollhouse furniture out of rice as a material, different problem.
+
+[40:10] Different problem. And Nori is so thin that I feel like it almost has no scale. Nori is a two dimensional object. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
+
+[40:19] No scale. Yeah. Unless you can see the pattern in it, in which case, ruined. Ruined. Uh but let's finish this question.
+
+[40:27] Oh, we did. Uh last time a mini foil wrapperitos and shot glass margaritas with key lime wheel garnishes. Okay, so a shot glass margaritas. Now we have the scale. A shot glass is typically holds about an ounce and a half, right?
+
+[40:41] So as opposed to like what? Like uh six ounce in a in a margarita. So we're talking like uh talking like four, like four to one on volume, four to one on volume, which means it's only it only needs to be half the linear size if that's what we're doing. Make sense? Yeah.
+
+[41:00] But I think I think quarter scale is probably better, right? In which case you have a much smaller volume, quarter scale. So what do you think is a food that would be good miniaturized? What do all of you think? What?
+
+[41:14] I feel like you can do like a fully loaded baked potato with a new potato. Hmm. So when you say fully loaded, I don't want to be have to be the person chopping those onions. Those miniaturized onions. I'm saying you do you do chives.
+
+[41:34] But it's to make a chive a scale chive. Oh, you do scallions and not chives. I start with chives. Like chives is my starting point. Yeah, but I'm saying.
+
+[41:42] I mean, chives could stand in for scallions, you're 100% right. But what beast puts scallions instead of chives on a baked potato unless the store has no chives. Anyone out there, by the way, putting long chive pieces on people and we need to come out and find you? Anyone? I'm here to tell you the long chive piece, going back to the dental floss, a long chive piece is sadness on your plate.
+
+[42:08] You agree with me, John? Yeah. Yeah. I don't like it. I don't like it.
+
+[42:12] Just like lay a cross on top of something, like some silly garnish. Chives. Listen, listen very carefully with chives. Please dry them before you cut them. Please dry your chives before you cut them.
+
+[42:26] Just like, you know, get them in, you know, close to one layer, dry them out on a towel, then put them into the bunch and hold them and shunk, shuck, shuc, shuhn, small pieces. Sharp knife. Please, please. Chives don't develop their flavor until they're cut. And their texture is unpleasant in long pieces.
+
+[42:45] There's nothing good about a long chive piece. Not talking about like the big things called chives that you steam. That's different. Different. Anyway.
+
+[42:54] I think your idea is good, Quinn. How about the small miniaturized uh uh bacon pieces? I mean, you're just gonna, you know, something smaller game crispy. What do you think about this? What if you take the cheddar cheese, you freeze it, and then you grate it on uh with a parmesan wheel?
+
+[43:10] Well, I feel like, you know, with the ch with the cheese, you could like do like almost more like a double stuff, like a twice and baked potato, and then it's melted. You don't need to worry about the scale. I think you're cheating, but I see where you're going. Guacamole could be good. Yeah, if you do fully blended, right?
+
+[43:26] So a lot of times people want a chunky guacamole. People don't like the fully blended, but in the miniaturized case, I would go fully blended. But the tortillas. Oh, wait, but no, we're doing it big because I like guacamole on a potato. You don't like guacamole on a potato?
+
+[43:37] I have guacamole than anything. And you know what's you know what doesn't have scale? Pinkie. Sour cream doesn't have scale. When you're serving your your potato, please, please provide some extra cheese and extra sour cream.
+
+[43:50] And salt. The inside of that potato does not have enough salt. The inside of your potato does not have enough salt. Maybe the miniaturized potato you can get enough salt through. Hey, has anyone done this?
+
+[43:59] You know how you when you bake a potato, you poke holes in it, right? So that it doesn't explode when you bake it, right? And then what I do is I put a gen, I I rub oil on the outside, generous amount of salt, so that it gets that awesome salt crust look, right? Now, it would be bad for the water in the potato, it would get kind of flaccid, right? But what if you jammed holes in it and then vacuum brine salt all the way through the dang potato and then like just let it dry a little bit before you before you baked it?
+
+[44:27] You think you think you could get salt all the way in? That's how they do salted peanuts. A salted roasted peanut, what they do is they put all of the shells, they put the shell in peanuts into a salt water solution, and then they vac infuse the salt water solution into the peanuts prior to roasting. Then they're roasted and the salt's already in the peanut. That's how they do that.
+
+[44:46] I wonder if you could do the same thing with a potato. I think you'd have better luck. You'd have better luck with a miniature potato. But of course, miniature potato also, it's only two bites, so you don't have the problem of that big inside unsalted potato. Yeah.
+
+[44:59] You know what I'm saying? Show me with your hands, John. What's your favorite side of size of baked potato? You too, you too, Joe. So, okay, so, all right.
+
+[45:06] So you guys are all choosing like medium. So you guys don't like the big as your head baked potatoes that some people hand out. Because there's too much potato, and then you have to keep redressing it, which is why I'm saying if you're gonna do the big potato, make sure you have extra condiments on the table. I'll say this: for those of you that didn't grow up in the right time in baked potato time, like I did, and now it's some sort of novelty that doesn't happen, you know, every week. Please, when you're serving the baked potato, right, take the baked potato out of the oven.
+
+[45:34] And I don't know, people don't TikTok baked potatoes, I don't think, right? I mean, I don't know, I don't watch TikTok. Take a knife, run the knife, make a line down the cut down the baked potato, about I don't know, half inch and or so. You don't have to go too deep. Don't go, you don't need to go too deep.
+
+[45:51] Then put your put your your fingers into triangles, like your your pointer, your index and your thumb. Make a triangle. Put them on either side of the potato the long way, right? And then push down and in, schoonp, and the potato will go, thank you. And it will bloom into a beautiful baked potato.
+
+[46:13] If you cut too deep, it'll just split in half. You just need that little cut, and you push, the jacket won't split. It'll just, it'll just, thanks. And then that's how you serve a baked potato with a generous salt crust on the outside from the roasting. That's the way it's intended to be served, in my opinion.
+
+[46:29] And I think, Quinn, here's the issue. Ah, you can't do that. How are you gonna get a high high specific gravity, i.e., a starchy, not a waxy small potato? Do they exist? I don't know.
+
+[46:48] Most small potatoes that you get are relatively waxy. Yeah. Uh, because they haven't had time to fully push the, you know, make all the starch granules. Hmm. Need some practice.
+
+[47:02] Uh, need some practice, uh, shock meista, but I think this is a good idea. Potato skin, just deep fry it. Hmm. Baked potato skins got baked potato appeal because they're made with potatoes and skins that are real. Do you remember this advertisement?
+
+[47:13] Or do you remember this snack product? No. It was a packaged, quote unquote potato skin that was meant, but they were they weren't like you get at an Applebee's or a TGI Friday's. Which is the one that's famous for potato skins? TGF Fridays?
+
+[47:26] Yes. All right. They weren't like that in the sense that they were almost like potato chips, but they were made from skin. They were okay, which is why you don't still get them today. Okay.
+
+[47:34] They they weren't no Frito. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Uh all right.
+
+[47:38] Anyone uh any other miniaturized ideas people can uh come up with that we can uh work for I just thought about you for a really small scale, you serve what appears to be like a soup in a bread bowl, but it's just a little uh shoe pastry. Okay. I see a French onion soup, miniature. Yeah, although John, you ever use your French onion soup bowls that I gave you? No, not yet.
+
+[48:05] Yeah, I love French onion soup so much. Gruyere. Yeah, delicious. Bread, yeah, beef, onion. Yeah.
+
+[48:11] Good. Very good. So good. Very good. Uh I just had one.
+
+[48:15] Uh so when I was uh what I used to do, uh so uh oh fudge. JB Prince uh used to sell these uh like you know in their Garmanger section, these little vegetable cutters that could make miniaturized cups out of vegetables. So here's how it worked. It had it was an annular cutter. Notice annular.
+
+[48:34] Don't go, don't go to a bad place. Annular cutter. So what you what you would do is is you would you would cut a uh like whatever potato, diecon, whatever starchy or non-starchy thing. You would cut it to whatever height you wanted, and you would push this annular cutter all the way through it, and it would cut all the way on the outside, and then it would leave like, you know, like uh three sixteenths of an inch at the bottom uncut from the inner thing, and then it had a special semicircular blade that you would push in, and then the core would pop out and you're left with a cup. So you're left with these miniaturized food cups.
+
+[49:09] And I used to do all sorts of miniaturized food crap with that back in the day. Yeah. Back when I used to do things like this is again the 90s, so don't judge me. But when I used to do like uh dolmas sushi I would make like I would make like uh grape leaf rolls that looked like sushi with the rice and the inside having the color and then you'd slice them and they looked like sushi uh rolls but they were in fact grape leaves. Yeah.
+
+[49:34] They were good but it's goofy. You never get away with that nowadays. No. People be like, what's wrong with you? Even though it tasted good.
+
+[49:40] By the way, if none of you have ever made your own grape leaves at home and you think that the stuff that comes in a can is a grape leaf please if uh stuff grape uh please do yourself a favor go find a decent recipe uh remember you you don't cook the rice through all the way before you do it you know you mix it all together you you steam them in the pan you got to put the grape leaves in the bottom so that they don't char in the pan I'm sure there's some modern way of doing it but I don't have a modern technique for you right now. But a freshly freshly made dolmas are intensely delicious. And not now we're talking yeah right this is this is what I eat all the time. Yeah there's so how much better are they or Orlando make the best grape leaves have the they collect the best grape leaves in brine. Really?
+
+[50:30] Orlando yeah I know for a fact because it's like I've been doing this for years. So someone out there tell them the difference between a real one and one in a can. Well we don't well the ones in the can uh I I find they they they they they break way too easy. The ones in the jar, they're really easy to unfold. No, I don't mean the leaves.
+
+[50:48] I mean the just the whole the the people who buy the whole pre-made can be a little bit of a dolmas the uh yeah, I mod well, the thing is we always make ours with lamb. Ooh. Lamb, rice, lemon, cumin, um, and they're what we call them japlakis. It's like a Turkish uh sephardic thing that uh we make every every every season. Um they're absolutely delicious.
+
+[51:09] Just sh tons and tons of lemon. It makes it so nice. Lemon and grape leaves are phenomenal. Yeah, and if you again, if you've never had maybe a little raisin in the middle too. Oh, yeah, yeah.
+
+[51:19] I like that. A little kick of sweetness in that. Uh-huh. White raisin. If you if if you've never had freshly made stuffed grape leaves, do yourself a favor and go out and start doing that right now.
+
+[51:30] You know what I mean? Right now. Takes forever, but they're delicious. Yeah. Uh that's like if you've never made stuffed cabbage with uh fermented cabbage leaves, go ahead and try to find some fermented cabbage leaves.
+
+[51:42] Uh, Ted Anderson, I'm uh helping a colleague find a solution with dealing a lot of espresso martini sales. He believes that the freshness of the shot is what makes his version special. I'm not sure if I believe this statement without testing, which we will do. That's the only answer, Ted, by the way. Testing.
+
+[51:56] Um I would love to uh I'm I would love to know if you've dealt with this before. Do you know of any way to batch the style of drink to help with execution? It's a classic version with espresso, vodka, and kalua shaking over ice and strain, producing that foamy top that everyone loves. The problem with espresso is a perishable thing, right? And it is gonna auto uh oxidize, uh, uh auto, you know, it's gonna change over time.
+
+[52:16] So if if you know, if the your colleague only likes it that way, right, it could be that he's wrong. Or she, right? They are wrong. In which case, what you need to do is run the test side by side and see what people like better. If it's impossible to make fresh shots to order, which sounds like it is, right?
+
+[52:35] Or it's a huge pain in the butt, either charge a lot more for the drink, right? Which is something you can do. And they're like, why is your espresso martini cost so much more than everybody else's espresso martini? Because we're pulling the shots right now, buddy. We're pulling shots right now.
+
+[52:47] Or my favorite, if you don't like it, don't order it. If you don't want to buy it, don't order it. And then they're like, oh, I'm gonna get one. That always happens. You know what I mean?
+
+[52:54] And uh, and just do it that way. Or can you know, convince them that you know, by side-by-side taste test and or throw that recipe out entirely and make a different tasting thing that you call an espresso martini that is not even in the same ballpark of flavors, so that that person is not gonna feel bad about the recipe. I think those are the only things. So, for instance, I don't really like cold brew coffee, but we were a cold brew house at existing conditions, and I was like, fine, you're just shooting for an entirely different set of flavor profiles, and that's the way we dealt with it because no one was about pulling fresh espresso shots at existing conditions. Is that a good answer?
+
+[53:29] Yeah. All right, Kevin, uh, question from TikTok Trends. There is a trend that people are doing dumb things and then it freezes and say a dumb way to die. But the full lyric is like eating a two-week old unrefrigerated pie, dumb way to die. Is any two-week old unrefrigerated pie likely to be deadly?
+
+[53:45] I thought, not because of the amount of sugar, but maybe like a Boston cream pie would probably mess you up, but what about like pecan or cherry? Well, this is a good question. So if you look up on the internet, there's all sorts of sources uh about um pie and safety, and they're all like pies are safe with the exception of pies that contain milk or eggs. I'm like, uh, and they specifically call out pumpkin pie. But then I looked on the CDC website, and you know how many cases of people dying from a pumpkin pie there are roughly zero.
+
+[54:14] Roughly zero. In 2000, there was an outbreak in Washington due to pumpkin pie. 31 people became ill, nobody died. There was uh salmonella outbreak in 1954. I don't know if anyone uh died.
+
+[54:26] The vast majority, the CDC did a study uh between 1998 and 2018, uh looking for different cases of salmonella during Thanksgiving and what variants of salmonella, what you know, like actual strains of salmonella were uh causing it, and they were not from pie. They were they're not egg-based, they were from turkey, right? So uh there you go. And they're like, well, uh, if you make a homemade pumpkin pie, you should refrigerate it, which is gonna freaking, you know, actually, I like them cold, but they it's gonna ruin the crust. Like the flavor of pumpkin pie is better cold, but it's gonna ruin the cr, in my opinion.
+
+[54:57] Uh, but it's gonna ruin the crust. They're like the ones that are in the supermarket have preservatives and are made in a special way. So I looked at Kirkland's label, and they're not made in in a special way. There's some potassium sorbate in a Kirkland pie, but uh that's just gonna kill yeast. It's not gonna stop bacteria from uh from wiping you out.
+
+[55:16] Um, so really the answer is is that if you make sure that the internals get up to like 180, like your pumpkin pie is even gonna be fine. I was not able to find any deaths caused by pie in the CDC website. Now, I wouldn't not refrigerate a cream pie, right? But I was not able to find any this. I'm not saying it's safe, but ain't nobody died uh so far.
+
+[55:35] So there you go. Take it, take it, take it from there. We alright. Is that a decent, decent answer? Good answer.
+
+[55:41] Yeah, all right. Uh, you know, ask uh ask risky or not. Ask them. But all of the freaking websites who say that you have to refrigerate homemade pies because there's a risk. No one's ever like, it happened here.
+
+[55:53] This is what happened. Yeah. It's never happened, right? Yeah. Um, although they will mold, right?
+
+[55:59] And mold is not not good to not good to eat. So a two-week old pie might get moldy. Yeah. And that's no good. And a two-week old pie, the crust is definitely gonna suck.
+
+[56:07] So, you know, you're a bad person for serving it to somebody because you're serving them something that's crappy. You know what I mean? I really like pie like day one, day two. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[56:20] Uh Echo Strike's in, what's the best way to store vanilla beans for longest term? I want to buy bulk to get a better price, but then uh it's gonna have to last me a few months. I have crappy but functioning vacuum sealer, countertop, blast chiller, and space in the fridge, in the freezer and in cabinets. In the past I've had luck with using just the freezer, but now I see that it's widely not recommended. Plastic is also a concern for many because they say that the volatile compounds will mix slash degrade with the ones in the vanilla.
+
+[56:42] So I did not know, Agos, thank you for bringing this to my attention, that there was such an anti-freeze lobby on the um uh on the internets about uh vanilla, but there really, really is. Most of it seems kind of strange, right? So uh I did a lot of did a lot of research for you. Um I wouldn't worry that much about flavor. What we what you're referring to with the plastic is something called flavor scalping, and it is true, uh, there needs to be a better term, it's a terrible term, but it's called flavor scalping, where either the plastic can leach a flavor into the food or vice versa.
+
+[57:12] The stuff that we use, the plastics we use in vacuum bags, is not going to put flavor into your food. Uh yes, some food flavor will go from the vanilla to the uh plastic, but on the other hand, everyone's like, store it in sugar, and then you can have the sugar. That means you're removing flavor from the vanilla, dirt, right? The arguments against freezing are that it somehow dries out the uh vanilla pod. And it is plausible, right, that when you're free, because freezing is a dehydration process, that the liquid is expelled from the bean and then doesn't readily reabsorb back into the bean, so then the beans get tacky and can mold when they thaw out.
+
+[57:45] I don't know. If you're pulling them out of the freezer and using them one by one and not thawing a whole batch, I really don't think that would be a problem as long as it's stored in a relatively airtight container without a lot of extra air. Um some people say don't vacuum them because it'll crush them and then you know the it'll ruin the texture. Some people say that don't store them in the fridge or the freezer because they're not gonna age anymore. I don't know about that.
+
+[58:07] The interesting thing about vanilla, what you need to read is the quality of cured vanilla beans by uh Patrick Dunfey, uh a vanilla consultant at and Krishna Bala at Fermanich US. It's on the uh internet. So here's what the thing moisture content of vanilla beans ranges from 15 to 38 percent. The stuff that they use in extracts is closer to 15 to 20. The stuff that we buy so that's pliable and you can get the seeds out of it, are between 25 and 38%.
+
+[58:31] At that point, the water activity of it is somewhere between 84 and 89%, meaning that the vanilla bean is gonna want to equilibrate between 84 and 89%, which means your kitchen is almost certainly too dry. So anytime you put new atmosphere in with your beans, you're drying the beans out, and that's why they're losing their plasticity and not going. If you can maintain a relative humidity that's in that range, you'll be fine. The problem is that it's a very, very small amount of water. So you could g use um potassium chloride solution to main to get a nice uh uh you know humidity.
+
+[59:06] Take your bean out, then cap it, and I would store it with an oxygen. The other problem is is that at those water activities you will get mold eventually if you keep opening and closing your thing. So I would put an oxygen scavenger in there because molds cannot grow without oxygen. Is this helpful at all, John? Yeah.
+
+[59:20] On the water activity, uh, we got a question from uh Michael who wants to do a pasta production. They live in the desert, but they were having their product crack too quickly. This is also a water activity problem. The way to solve your problem with your drying room is to close your stuff in so the natural humidity that's in the pasta, which should be at around 20, 30% moisture when you're starting, right? Slowly goes off, and then use a uh humidity meter.
+
+[59:43] They're not that expensive, and then slowly change how much you vent that box in order to dry it out. And because he's interested in not using a heater because it lives in, you know, lives in such a dry climate that he thinks he can get away with it. Uh climbing Nerd Gotta doers. The birthday present was gonna fill it up with liquid nitrogen and try some of the standard things like making ice cream and freezing things and crushing. Was also gonna try nitro muddling some basil.
+
+[1:00:03] Anything else fun I should try? I mean, those are the things. Do the marshmallow trick. Those are the things. Chill some glasses.
+
+[1:00:08] Uh all right, oh man. Alexander Talgard, listen, I'll hit you. Quinn, hit him up on Patreon. We already missed his plum blossoms, which he was gonna make this year. Uh I would try, oh, you could try a water infusion because he's trying to get the flavor in, but I would also, oh no, that was Deli Spear who's gonna do a flavor infusion with that.
+
+[1:00:27] Try glycerin. Try glycerin. Try alcohol and try glycerin. And if the alcohol is getting too much of that kind of flavor out of the flowers, glycerin might be a uh good uh approach. Uh we got most of your stuff done.
+
+[1:00:42] Alex, your beans are gonna cook unevenly in a pressure cooker. I'm sorry, that's why uh sand, you know, uh Rancho Gordo doesn't like it. I'll work on it, I'll figure it out. Monty, you know, Quinn's gonna give you his creamy review soon. We already talked about that at the beginning of the uh thing.
+
+[1:00:57] And Wizmer, uh, I don't know. If you want to if you want to open a bar, like let us know. But we're not, I don't have any plans on doing anything other than the stuff we're doing now. I'm having enough trouble doing the stuff that we're supposed to be doing. Um wants me to talk about uh what's it called?
+
+[1:01:15] Super juice. We'll we'll talk about that because it's gonna take me a little while. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan. Rockefeller Center, New York City joined as usual with John behind me. How are you doing, John? Doing great, thanks.
+
+[0:21] Yeah? How's the restaurant world treating you? Great. Got an A on the DOH review the other night, Friday night. Oh wow.
+
+[0:26] That was exciting, yeah. Happy. Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah.
+
+[0:30] Hey, hey. You know, it's like uh, you know, well, anyway. It's like no one's ever happy with anything but an A, though. It's not like Yeah. You know.
+
+[0:38] Well, didn't get a single, literally nothing wrong with the kitchen or any of the food. No, nanny, nanny, nanny. Oh, wait, so you're blaming the FOH. Typical Chef Weasel blaming the front of house. It's they got one of the three things was on them.
+
+[0:50] Oh man. It's so typical. I didn't think you'd become one of those guys, John. All those comps you got at the bar and you're still ragging on the FOH. All the snacks they get.
+
+[1:00] Oh, okay. It's totally geez Louise. Oh man. Uh got Joe Hazen rocking the panels. How are you doing?
+
+[1:09] I'm doing great, man. I'm so glad everyone's here in the studio. Yeah. Majority of us. Oh, calling out the calling out the three people who aren't.
+
+[1:16] I wish we could merge the West to the East one day. It would be amazing. It would be nice if we had uh transporter beams. You ever read uh Reasons and Per uh Persons by Derek Parfitt, the uh the the thought experiment uh philosophy book? No, I haven't.
+
+[1:30] Yeah, it's about a lot of it is about transporter beams, and they talk about transporter beams like Star Trek. And you're like, oh, that sounds great. And he's like, yeah, but what happens if they forget to dematerialize you on the one side and then they rematerialize you on the other side, and then there's two of you, and then you go up and kill the one that didn't get me dematerialized. Are you doing anything wrong? I love that idea.
+
+[1:51] I I I I I I'm always perplexed about like how they're actually decoding the correct way. Like, why isn't your arm like coming out of your hip or something like that? Well, if you've watched Willy Wonka, you know Mike TV gets uh host. You know, that's right. I forgot about that.
+
+[1:59] Yeah, yeah. And you know, back in the day they they broke people into like bigger chunks. It was only a million pieces. He flew over your head in only a million pieces. Which is, you know, ridiculous.
+
+[2:13] Uh all right. I don't know what coast you're on, uh Mr. Molecules. Where are you, Jack? I'm still in DC.
+
+[2:21] Actually, two more weeks here, this week and next week, DC. All right. All right. And we got Nastasi Lopez in the great state of Connecticut. How's how's you doing?
+
+[2:29] Good. Uh Jack's gonna see me this weekend. Oh yeah? He's coming up to coming up to the uh up the coast. Nice.
+
+[2:36] All right. Uh we got in Vancouver Island in the upper, upper, upper, upper, upper, left, left. Uh Quinn, how you doing? Hey, I'm good. Yeah.
+
+[2:46] And today's special guest here to talk about her relatively new book. Relatively new, relatively new. Yeah, this year. Yeah. Mayumo, uh, Filipino American uh desserts remixed.
+
+[2:56] We have uh Abby Balingett. How are you doing? Hello, I'm good. I'm happy to be here. I'm happy that you are here.
+
+[3:01] You came at their at the recommendation of uh McNally Jackson, which is you know uh one of our two favorite bookstores. Yes, yes, you know. I'm so grateful for them. I did my like book launch and I had a signing there, and it was like the first time I'd ever signed books, and I was like, I'm trying to make sure signatures, right? And I was like stressing out, and like they were so lovely and so sweet.
+
+[3:20] So, Malin, thank you so much for having me. So, what would uh what'd you go for signature wise? I went with, you know what? Now people can forge my signature because this is what it's on my legal documents. Um with uh Abigail with a B at the end and a big A loop and I mean, I don't know how people do their full like first last name.
+
+[3:36] Some people do like full-on cursive, and I think cursive is a lost art. Yeah. I think we've forgotten how to do it in the past. Uh they didn't teach my son that. He's 18 and he just didn't even learn it.
+
+[3:46] They didn't teach it. Yeah, they didn't teach it. I mean, he's like, what do you need to know that for? You know what I mean? Yeah, seriously.
+
+[3:52] How do they make signatures? They just have print. I don't know, but when was the last time? Like all official documents are signed on a computer anyhow. A docusign.
+
+[4:00] Yeah. It's ridiculous. And you know, uh, I I just do the big old D. Do you carry a Sharpie with you? That's like the author trick.
+
+[4:06] Yeah, it's in my bag. I think well, actually, I I just do uh I just do this one, that's it. Big D. A big D. Big D.
+
+[4:14] Yeah, big D. Although that was actually not my nickname. There was another guy I worked with for years whose nickname was Big D. Uh what was his signature? I never I don't know his signature.
+
+[4:24] His signature is probably neat. He was from Long Island. Oh, yeah, probably. Yeah, his signature is probably neat. But then I also draw a little elf character, which is kind of like my thing.
+
+[4:33] Oh if I have the time. I don't always have the time, but that's that's my like logo character. People need to see this. Well, hopefully you'll sign something of theirs. Yeah.
+
+[4:42] That's really good. If you come get me. Also, like uh I have a so you know if if I mean I mispronounce everything and I also uh I forget people's names and I misspell everything. So like um signing things makes me extraordinarily nervous. You can't just cross out names.
+
+[4:59] No, no, especially especially with like a fat old Sharpie, you know what I mean? So like uh uh I always uh I always ask people like to have me write I carry a separate piece of paper and I write their name on the piece of paper first and I'm like like this and then like yeah. Oh, because they how how do they how do they oh they they they j-o-h n you? Or J H Owen. J.
+
+[5:23] Jo. John. I kind of like that. That's kind of a good name. Wow.
+
+[5:29] First for everything. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, is that a name anywhere that I'm not? I don't think I've ever seen a J H O N.
+
+[5:35] No, I don't think I have either. It sounds like it could be real. Yeah. I've seen it spell that way more than once. Like Nordic or something?
+
+[5:40] I don't know. Something. I don't know. I can't place it. I just, if I saw it, I'd be like, okay.
+
+[5:44] Yeah. You know, okay. All right. So what are we doing? Speaking, John, uh, what what are we what are we doing?
+
+[5:52] First of all, why don't you talk if you're listening live, you can call in your questions to uh 917-4101507. That's 917-410-1507 here in the studio. If you are a Patreon uh person and a live listener and why don't you tell them how to sign up and what they get? Patreon.com slash cooking issues. You get access to a bunch of cool things.
+
+[6:11] Discounts with people we like to work with, including an upcoming discount with Edward's Aged Meats, which we're super excited about. Uh the usual, you know, discount with author's books at being sold at Kitchen Arts and Letters. Um, you know, a bunch of other great things. Dave has been posting a bunch of little private projects. He's been working on Patreon.
+
+[6:28] So yeah, a lot of great reasons to join. Um yeah, Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Yeah, if you want to make an overly expensive aluminum cold press juicer, join the Patreon and you can get my shopping list. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[6:43] It's that thing's almost done. But I have to say this. So uh sorry, sorry, Abby, I have to mention this because like this is a huge news week for uh Booker and Dax. We have finally launched the freaking spinzall pre-sale. So it's our culinary centrifuge.
+
+[6:58] You know, it's mainly for bars. Yeah. Not me, like chefs using two. You know, John uses it. Oh.
+
+[7:04] Yeah, you know, but of course, John's a forward-looking chef. John's not working. You know, he's not a jamoke. You know what I mean? Uh so you know.
+
+[7:12] Anyway. So yeah, it went on, it went on pre-sale and uh we're doing pretty well, right, Quinn. Yeah, we're doing really well. Yeah, yeah. All right.
+
+[7:14] Well, uh, remember folks. We only have like 130 left, right? Yeah, yeah, of the uh original, uh, yeah, of that 500. Listen, get your order in. You gotta get people.
+
+[7:30] I'll say this. Get your order in because like we will not probably have units left over after we tell the factory what to make. So even after we make so we're supposed to we need so Abby, here's how it works. I need we need to sell 500 to make any at all. Right.
+
+[7:47] 499, the factory's like, no, thank you. Go by. You know what I mean? So 500 is the number, like to to open the door. But then after that 500, they'll let us make more in the initial production run.
+
+[8:02] Right. So we can st we need 500, but then we still need still need, you know, you could put more in up until the last day that we have to put the order in. And we don't know yet what the last day we have to put the order in. But once you put the order in, after that, it's like um, you know, a month and a half, two months of production, and then another month to throw it across the water. So it's like once that date hits, that's your last day to pre-order and get one of this uh batch.
+
+[8:29] And we don't know when the next one's gonna be, John. Do we know when the next one's gonna be? No. No. It's could be your only opportunity forever.
+
+[8:34] Could be your only opportunity forever if you want to spend things, which is why they're like lay's potato chips. You gotta buy like two of those suckers, right, Stas? Yeah. Yes. Yeah, they still come with great customer service.
+
+[8:48] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the the patrons already know about this. Yeah. So by the time this episode goes out on Friday, the people listening should pre-order right away.
+
+[8:59] Yeah, did that uh did that episode where I showed it on the Dave Chang show ever get aired? I'm stupid at looking stuff up. I don't know, whatever. Uh it did, but there's no video. There's no video there, then why did I do video?
+
+[9:13] What the hell is this? Wow. Wow. You know. Life is like getting hit with a bag of oranges.
+
+[9:23] The bruisings on the inside. Um so uh is next week a no tangent Tuesday, or or what do we got? What do we got next week? Who do we got next week? I believe so, yeah.
+
+[9:33] No, I believe it's no tangent. All right, so for people that have uh, you know, non non uh related Patreon questions, we'll get you next week. And we'll do more spins while talking and we'll save that for later. So uh Abby, the uh I'm supposed to I've been told I'm supposed to abbreviate this section, but this is the section where we all talk about any interesting kind of food thing of the jigs from the past week. Do you have anything interesting last week?
+
+[9:55] Ooh, yeah. So I went to pop up at Edie's Grocer in Greenpoint, and they had a collab with Waldi Reyes, uh, who's this great Filipino chef. So it's like a Filipino Lebanese combo like shared communal uh meal, and there was like a falafelumpia. Uh-oh, it's like whole branzino with like amazing rice just made with like coconut water and like nuts and like herbs and bok choy. It was so so good.
+
+[10:18] I like still think about that dinner. It happened like literally last week, and I'm like, I still miss it. It's a good that's a that's a good story. Wait, uh Jack, do you have anything? You always go to a restaurant and you're like, I had something, but then I didn't like it and won't.
+
+[10:32] I mean, I don't know. I I had a a burger on a pretzel bun last night, and uh in years. So that's not very interesting, but uh listen, pretzel buns. The pretzel buns they're messy, but they're delicious. Next time, so you did this at home.
+
+[10:51] No, no, no, I didn't have it at home. Pretzel buns, in my opinion, that the commercially available ones, the pretzilla ones, are good. A little bit doughy, a little bit doughy. Just a little bit doughy. A little bit dough.
+
+[11:04] I like uh, but and you have to put your own salt on it. So I usually I uh I like the gildalily, like I'm you know, big at gilding lilies, so I uh I like to put salt and caraway on that so that it's kind of like a pretzel halfway to cumul a cumul roll. Oh see, that's that's a smart idea. Yeah, well, that's what I'm here for, man. I'm here for you for like little little smart or dumb hacks.
+
+[11:27] Yeah, yeah. Uh what about you, uh Quinn or Stas, you guys got anything? Uh I I made four versions of my chocolate gelato and did a taste comparison. Yeah, and was there a big difference? So uh well, my goal is to actually take different parameters of in gr of ingredients and end up with very similar flannel gelatos.
+
+[12:00] So that was sort of the test. Okay, that's an odd, that's an odd, but you know, I'm there for you, Quinn. I'm there. Let us know how it works out. Well the idea is that uh that no matter what chocolate you use, yeah, you still end up with a similar result.
+
+[12:17] Yeah, as long as it's Valrona. No. I didn't use Valrona. Yeah, yeah. You're not gonna I'm sorry, dude.
+
+[12:27] I mean, maybe in a gelato, I don't know. It depends on a gelato, but you're like, guess what? I melted down Hershey bars, and it was just as good as the one I made with Manjari. Not gonna happen. You know what I mean?
+
+[12:37] I'm using a local chocolate. Uh all right, whatever. Well, who's the local uh Vancouver Island chocolate? Uh I'm gonna be the island. I think it's BC.
+
+[12:48] It's called uh Wild Mountain. Good. Really good. All right. Okay.
+
+[12:54] I have not had it, so I cannot make any any judgments. Huh? All right. Um so uh Abby, let's talk about this book. Yeah.
+
+[13:06] So uh on the cover of it, you have this uh like uh like a like a hollow hollow baked Alaska thing, which does look it looks pretty looks pretty good. Thank you very much. Thank you. Uh but a lot of what you're doing here, you you do a lot of uh desserts with it's not the whole thing, but you do a lot of desserts with some savory stuff chucked in, which is kind of interesting. Uh so I'm trying to figure out where I want to start because I I don't know whether I should go down I I'll ask the user questions, users.
+
+[13:37] Patreon, Patreon. Sorry, Patreon people. You're our you're our people. Users. What a jerk.
+
+[13:44] You know why? It's because I've been uh dealing with uh the factory a lot with making the spinz all and I have to talk about issues that users are gonna have of the equipment. Yeah. And so and that's kind of the only language that I can deal with. And so like the people that I'm trying to serve then become users instead of experience and all that.
+
+[14:05] Yeah, right. Right. So no offense, Patreon people. Um so yeah, before I go down uh before I go down this cute huge rabbit hole, I'll ask their questions first. All right.
+
+[14:14] Okay. Can you discuss the uh various uh um I guess the flavors of the different uh vinegars from uh the the Datu Puti Corporation and uh and and what dishes you would use ones uh best I only have the the dark one the uh the uh there's a little bit of soy in that one? Uh the sou uh what is it, the uh the molasses one, the sukang uh Iloca one. That's the only one I have in my house. But it's great too.
+
+[14:43] By the way, my my dad asks this question. Oh, okay. Your dad has okay, this is very deep cut question. I mean, I feel like there are certain ones when I was growing up, like the ones that have like the peppers in the bottom and like onion and like everything preserved in there that kind of adds more of like spiciness. I love like the spiced uh dati putti vinegars.
+
+[15:02] Um but honestly, like when you use either coconut or sugar palm, I think there's like totally different like flavor profiles there. And so, you know, the the Filipino vinegar cabinet is kind of diverse, and I would say the only way to know is to try. And so if your dad can go to the Filipino supermarket and try it, I highly recommend that. But it's just that like sasawan, which is like condiment in Tagalog, is just like such a big part of just the everyday eating ritual where you don't want to like oversalt your food or you don't want to like you just like have things where people can customize to their palate and what they like. And so that's why I have like we have fermented shrimp paste and we have the vinegar, the suka and stuff, so like we can add to our you know personal uh taste.
+
+[15:48] But is there any reason to buy their like kind of their bog standard vinegar is pretty neutral, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. But I do say, like, I I know like this is kind of just like snobbish, but like I would say if you don't use Filipino vinegar, you don't use Filipino slice sauce in adobo, you can kind of taste the difference. There's something harsh about just like regular Heinz white distilled vinegar that you I don't want to recommend to anybody, right?
+
+[16:10] You know, uh, you know what I have in my pantry that you have to be super duper careful for is the with is the kind of like northern European like 25 and 30 percent vinegar. You ever use that stuff? Oh it's great. Like how in what way? Like super super acidic?
+
+[16:27] Yeah, it's it's uh so like you know, your standard vinegar is like somewhere like around five, six percent, right? Oh, you know, uh four between four and six, I would guess, right? Vinegar. You know, they usually write on the bottle what the acidity is, right? And so that's how I do my math, right?
+
+[16:43] What because I, you know, whatever. That's kind of that's my shtick. Anyway, so uh, but a lot of times I want to add vinegar, but the w I need the water base to stay low so that I can I have more leeway. So I started buying this crap. Nils, my like Nils Norin, who I used to cook with at the French Culinary Institute, this he's like the Swedes, we only use this super high grade vinegar, right?
+
+[17:04] Because it's distilled. So once it's distilled, who the hell cares? So like why am I paying for water when I want vinegar? But you have to be very careful. This 30% stuff is like five times as powerful as vinegar.
+
+[17:15] So it's very easy just to go bloop it a bloop and then you're toast, like toast, you know what I mean? At that percentage, you could use a like acetone or like nail polish removers. I mean, it's it's getting rough. It's getting like, yeah, so I don't keep it like with my normal vinegar, I keep it like high shelf, and it's like in a weird shaped bottle. So yeah.
+
+[17:34] And I have you want a real nasty glacial acetic, which is like, you know, lab grade, is like corrosive, and you want to stay the hell away from it. Like if you drip it on like your concrete floor to like etch into the concrete, it's hardcore. Right. Yeah. But you know, things have its uses.
+
+[17:51] Like maybe sometimes you don't want to have water. You just want to add vinegar. And more you know. But uh I think distilled vinegar has its place. Yeah.
+
+[18:01] It's just, you know, right. It's not as smooth and round, whatever. I'm uh okay. It's all right. I mean, I use a lot of pure acids too in like bar and stuff to like uh when it's not an ingredient when it's an adjustment.
+
+[18:15] You know what I'm saying? Anyway, so that's that's all I'm gonna say about that. All right. Uh and from how you think so it's wolf greag. What do you think?
+
+[18:29] Wolf Greg. What do you think? Wolf Greg. Wolf Greg. Greg.
+
+[18:32] I'm not look, I'm I'm not in an age where I can like just read letters as numbers. Like, I don't do my passwords that way. I'm like, you know, you know, whatever. All the all the A's or eights, whatever it is, that's not the way I operate, people. Okay.
+
+[18:46] Uh any suggestions, uh, and describe it for people that don't know. Uh any suggestions for making uh Otop? Is that how you pronounce it? The cookie? Oh, yeah, that is one of the recipes I I did not make for the book.
+
+[18:58] But I do think that's one of those like biscuits that are like Filipino, um, and they're they're just like, I you know what? This is one of the things I feel stumped because I've never made it for myself before. Um, but I feel like so bad. I feel like, oh no, I feel I failed this person. But isn't it basically like a puff pastry that you roll up, slice, and smash and cook?
+
+[19:18] Yeah, yeah. It's basically, it feels like so much like yeah, a palmiere kind of situation. And so I would say, like, in that way, you could just like literally get puff pastry and kind of knock it out. But the biggest fear I feel like with that kind of uh dessert is that you need to have like a glass of milk and a glass of water to wash that down, because like it's like similarly, like you could just like uh choke on some crumbs and die, like not to be like very morbid here on the show, but like, so just be careful and try. I would experiment with like at least if you want to go down the like pre-made puff pastry route and see.
+
+[19:50] But yeah. For years I resisted pre-made puff pastry, and then I was like, why? Nobody cares. Nobody cares. Uh no, who's gonna who's gonna be like lamination police?
+
+[20:01] Like, okay, my bad, I didn't laminate that. Well, like I think everyone in their life, not everyone, people who there's a category of people that I am one of where you go through this period where you have to like do it. You know what I mean? And then you're like, which one of the methods am I gonna use? How am I gonna make the detromp?
+
+[20:18] And you know what I mean? And you're like, and then you're like, you know what? Machines do this really well. Yeah, you know, people do this really well. And then, you know, whatever.
+
+[20:28] And then, you know, I used to do puff pastry because all of my onion tarts are uh all my old onion tarts were not pie based, they were puff paste based, right? You know, like kind of like freeform puff paste based onion tarts. That used to be like my standard like I have a party, it's onion tart time, giant pan, onions forever, caramelize them down, you know, cheese, cream, egg, maybe bacon, depending on who's there. Done. Puff paste, done, right?
+
+[20:55] Done. Good warm, good cold, good the next day. Doesn't matter. Anyway, uh, and then I was like, yeah, I just stopped making it. I was like, F this, no.
+
+[21:02] Yeah. Yeah. You know? Uh although I think the in the Instagram era, people are like, they want to see how high they can puff it. So they do all this stuff.
+
+[21:10] Yeah, yeah. I even notice that with biscuits. Like, people are going like mile high biscuits, it has to be like this big, bigger than your face. Well, what are your thoughts? What are your thoughts on a biscuit?
+
+[21:14] First of all, you have very, very clear brownies. I have to say, I'm the only person I know that I like a fudgy brownie. I like a fudge. I like, don't anyone say I don't like a fudgy brownie, but I also like a cakey brownie. And you hate a cakey brownie.
+
+[21:32] I know I'm a hater. I'm sorry. I do like the brownies. You hate it so much that you jack your temperature down to 325 and bake your brownies for a long, long time, and then like, you know, you throw throw throw candies with rice paper on them. But it's like, we'll talk about your brownies.
+
+[21:47] Yeah. But like, why why the h why the hatred of the cake? I don't know. I just think if I want cake, I'll get cake. I don't want a cakey, like I feel like I associate it with dryness, and I like hate a dry brownie.
+
+[21:59] And I think it's just something about that like box makes brownie that really like is naturally fudgy, where I'm like, that's what I want. I think it's a nostalgia, but also like I don't know. I've had a I've had a couple bad brownies in my life, and so usually they're cakey. I don't remember. Are you uh are you a a cocoa, a chocolate, or a mixed person?
+
+[22:16] I'm a cocoa and the chocolate added at the end to fold in. So coco, yeah. Are you a chocolate person? And it's we're we're gonna have these arguments. I don't know, but like I'm I'm usually in the minority, but brownies was the first recipe I memorized in the 70s.
+
+[22:32] And no one um taught me how to make them. And so like sometimes I would melt the butter, sometimes I would cream the butter in, sometimes it was always butter because even though the recipe said shortening, I didn't know what shortening was. And my mom said it's like butter. I was like, Mom, what's shortening? She's like, it's like butter.
+
+[22:50] And so I was like, I'll use butter. You know what I mean? How old were you at the sun? Eight. Eight?
+
+[22:56] I was uh an only child, and um both my parents worked, right? And so like I had a lot of time to myself. Yeah, I had a lot of time to myself and ate by a Pyrex glass pan. And so it was like, you know, uh that's that's my life. Anyway, so like I made them and they never I would alter it so they came out differently all the time, but I developed a like for all the styles.
+
+[23:22] But the early 70s recipe that I had was a uh two ounces of baker's brand unsweetened chocolate. You ever seen that one? It's got that old grandma on the cover. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's way more expensive than it deserves to be for its quality.
+
+[23:36] Yeah. Like so much more like the expensive than it deserves to be for its quality. But that is the the little one ounce squares of my childhood. Aw. Yeah.
+
+[23:45] I don't buy it anymore though, because now I do the math. Now I'm like, how much sugar is in this chocolate that I'm buying? Okay. And then I like through the math and I figure it out. You know what I mean?
+
+[23:53] Yeah, yeah. Anyway. Well, you want to talk about your brownies now? Might as well. We've already talked about them.
+
+[23:57] That's uh I don't know how we talk from like, I guess, biscuits to brownies, but well, because you were saying that everyone like makes a mile high biscuit. I asked you how you liked your biscuits, and then all I could think about was that we're gonna have an argument about brownies. I mean, I do like I I like a high biscuit, but I think and whenever whatever gets it done that's like flaky layers, it doesn't necessarily have to be that tall. Like if we get the gist of it, it's like you just want a bite that's like satisfying. Nastasia hates this conversation because she doesn't like biscuits, but do you like brownies, Nastasia?
+
+[24:23] Are you a brownie fan? Yeah, I like brownies. Oh good. But you're a no everyone on the show, I believe because we've had this conversation. Everyone is a no-inclusion person, right?
+
+[24:33] You don't like nuts. No nuts. Well, that's not true. You like nuts? I don't mind walnuts.
+
+[24:42] Walnuts? That grew up with I don't know why my mom used to do that, but yeah. Walnuts. Yeah. Okay.
+
+[24:44] Fine. You ever had Harold McGee's magic walnuts? You ever had Harold McGee's magic walnuts? Oh my God. No.
+
+[24:58] Oh my God. He has a zero tannin walnut that gets shipped to him by some sort of like walnut magician. And Nastasi and I, one of the times we stayed there at his house, he just put those nuts out and didn't say anything. And we're like, what the hell? Like he's nuts.
+
+[25:17] They're so good. Right? Remember that, Sus? Uh-huh. Yeah.
+
+[25:23] Oh my God. And he just walks around. Harold McGee just walks around his house with like magic nuts on the table. Yeah. Magic nuts out all the time.
+
+[25:32] It's crazy. By the way, I called him about some of your recipes. We'll get into that in a minute. But where were we? We were in bit uh biscuits and brownies.
+
+[25:41] So with biscuits, I've the first question is are you you're you already said you like flaky? I feel like there's a it goes back and forth between people who like like a more of a drop style, like fluffy, and people who like a flaky, and then people are trying to like kind of combine those two things, but really they're separate products. We're like, what the hell, man? Yeah. So people like, well, you could do it, and then you can put layers of flour in between the droppy stuff and make no listen.
+
+[26:03] Do a flaky, do a drop. Right, right. I'm thinking red lobster, like the drop biscuit we're talking about. Red lobster, man. That's like, well, you're bringing it back.
+
+[26:11] Those those people know how to overcook some fish. Oh. We can't hate them for their biscuits, though. People go back. I never like I I never like I don't even remember that.
+
+[26:20] I just remember like, even as a kid, when it was the fancy place you would go out, the red lobster, they're like, they take a hammer to this fish or what? You know what I mean? Like, you never listen. If you own a red lobster franchise, I'm sure you don't do it this way. Whoever is hearing my voice who owns a red lobster franchise.
+
+[26:36] But like when you go red lobster, don't get the brook. This is why I always say, like, when you're ordering a mixed seafood platter at most places, unless you know the chef, get the fried version. Right? Yeah. Back me up on this.
+
+[26:48] Fry it. You don't want some, you don't want someone's like, make sure the fish isn't undercooked. Keep broiling it. Keep broiling it. Comes out like, you know, you pick it up.
+
+[26:59] Oh, speaking of fish, can I tell one quick story from this weekend? Because so I had to uh I had uh my my son is gonna be a camp, my younger son's gonna be a camp counselor this year at Connecticut, this camp that he's been going to for a long time back when I used to have a place in Connecticut. And there's a small place called River Provisions. It's right on the Connecticut River, about 15 miles up from the mouth. And every year, Shad runs up uh the Connecticut, right?
+
+[27:25] Which is it's like a it's like a it's like a fish that runs back, you know, from the salt water back up and you catch it, even though it doesn't eat using these spoons, it still strikes, even though it's not eating because it's going up to do its kind of spawning thing. And they're big, and everyone eats the row, but no one eats the meat because it's impossible to fillet because it's got an extra set of bones in it. But it is the most delicious, it's like a super oily, but like a like a like a super oily fish. It's like a giant almost mackerel. Nice, right?
+
+[27:53] And they're like this. And so, and when you get it, like there's like a couple old ladies who still know how to fillet these things, and once these people die, it's gone. So you what you do is you buy the fillets and you can grill them and they don't go dry, which would make me think of it. You gr you you can grill them, but when you pick up the fillets and you go, you hold under you push your hands underneath it, and they flop apart because these these they take these fillet knives and they run it the long way down the fish like like five times and like flap it out like this and remove all the bones, leaving the skin on intact, and the skin is beautiful. I'll show you guys a picture after the skin's beautiful.
+
+[28:28] And then uh it's just a great fish, but everyone only thinks about the row. Shad roe. Oh, shad row, yeah, shadow with butter and bacon and parsley, lemon, you know what I mean? It's good though. I mean, shadow's good, but I prefer shad the fish.
+
+[28:40] And I'm buying it, and it's the last because it's that it's been a short season this year. And the guy at the front of the store, and I literally called them, I was driving by, I was like, You got any shad? He's like, Yes, we just got some shadows. Like, yes, and so I'm gonna I bought it all. I was like, How much do you have?
+
+[28:52] I'll take it all. And then so like I bought it and I ate it. It was delicious. And the guy at the checkout was like, I don't know, you can eat a bait fish. I was like, shut your mouth.
+
+[29:01] Shut your mouth, it's not a bait fish. Just because you don't have the skill to bone it, does not make it a bait fish, my friend. Check me out. Wow, you know what I mean? Roasted.
+
+[29:10] Yeah, anyway, they're delicious. Uh okay, so uh back to uh so that's how we got from biscuits to brownies. There's a fish detour, and we got here. We're here. Yeah, we're here now.
+
+[29:21] We're we're here. Uh what are you flaky? Well, you wait, you didn't say are you flaky or you or are you fluffy? Flaky. Flaky, huh?
+
+[29:30] Huh. Because you you're going anti-cakey on most of these. Yeah. Uh okay. Yeah, you got to do it.
+
+[29:35] I can s I can see the uh, I can see the honor in both styles. Uh although recently I have to say that like uh I have a habit of reading recipes and being like, that's garbage, that doesn't make any difference. And then I try it and I'm like, No, yeah, I'm now a butter grater. I'm now a frozen butter grater. Oh, nice.
+
+[29:53] Yeah, frozen butter grating is the answer for biscuits. Wow, you can't just like go in with like the little masher anymore. You gotta do it. No, that's what I used to do. I was like, none of this matters.
+
+[30:02] And I would just like, you know, do it until it looked right, until it looked biscuity. You know what I mean? I would do the same thing, uh, yeah, for for but anyway, yeah. The frozen, I uh now, you know, my son Booker, who uses unconscionable amounts of butter, is like, uh, Dad, why do you keep this in the freezer? Shut up, it's in case I need to make biscuits.
+
+[30:22] Your reserve. Yeah. Gotta have that biscuit reserve. Uh so let's get back to brownies for a second. Um, because I had written my questions on it.
+
+[30:33] Well, you described the brownies. Yeah, you described the brown, oh yes, MSG. MSG. Um, there's a five-spice uh tarona steca soy. So tarona steca soy or like uh specifically from my parents' province, like Pampanga, it's like a specialty where it's like nougat, um Spanish influence there.
+
+[30:50] Um, and it's like cashew, nougat, and usually wrapped in this edible wafer. And that was like the fun thing to be like to fake smoke as a kid and use it like a cigar, but like really it's like nice and like kind of uh crispy, a little chewy. And I make mine to a little bit of five spice, just have a little bit of a kick and a little bit more salt, and then I chop that up on top of the brownie and I stud the brownie surface with that. And it's really beautiful because like the layer on top, you know, like I love brownies. I have that nice shiny layer.
+
+[31:19] I was gonna ask you about that. Are you like uh do you need that like that glassy layer on top? I need it. I know I did so much, I I researched a lot to figure out how to like achieve that every single time. And I use a combination of like uh brown sugar and also powdered sugar, and I think the powdered sugar dissolves a lot better than I would say like any like regular straight up granulated sugar.
+
+[31:40] And then another like theory of this is like, oh, if you mix it up with the eggs, it kind of creates like a meringue. Um so that it does create some type of like beautiful, like glossy, crispy top layer, which I really like. Do not serve Abby a dull surface. No, full chocolate, cakey, brownie. You're gonna make her sad.
+
+[32:01] I feel like this podcast is making sound really picky, but I'm like, no, but like I think there's certain things you have to like stick to your guns and be like, this is what I like and this is what I like. This podcast is about uh is about people achieving the goals that they want. So like discussing like your you know personal predilection, that's what it's all about. Yeah, achieving a it's actually I never really basically. Yeah, being overly picky about things that are inconsequential to most people.
+
+[32:27] Yeah. But that we care, exactly. Yeah, but that we care about a lot. Yeah, yeah. Uh so yeah, Nastassi and I used to have a motto for our company.
+
+[32:36] I forget the exact motto, but basically we were trailing edge technology, so we're that thing that's nice to have, but if it falls off the plane, you're still safe. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like those little wingtip things. Yeah.
+
+[32:49] And you're like, oh, if that fell off the plane, no, we'd be fine. Oh, that's nice to have, right? That's us, Daz, right? Yep, that's our motto. Yeah.
+
+[32:58] Or whatever. And like everything else we do, it takes a little long to sit. It's not condensed into a motto. Um, but the MSG is in the batter. It's in the batter, yeah.
+
+[33:08] Yeah, it's interesting. I never really thought about uh powdered sugar having more sugar dissolved in it, right? Because brownies are fairly low moisture, so if you use granulated sugar, it probably doesn't fully dissolve before the bakeout happens, and so it probably won't glass out the same way. I wonder whether the cornstarch in the in the powdered sugar has any probably not because there's already a bunch of starch in it anyway. Yeah, huh?
+
+[33:27] All right. Uh but the MSG, how much MSG is in it? I think it's about half a teaspoon. Um teaspoon of salt. For a how many stick butter recipe?
+
+[33:35] Uh there's no butter. No, uh, there's only olive oil and buttons. Olive oil, sorry, I didn't I didn't memorize it. My bad. But how much olive oil?
+
+[33:43] Um I want to say uh okay, I did this so recently. Maybe it's two-third cup, but I have to double check. Two-third cup, yeah. I have to double check on that. But two-third cup.
+
+[33:51] Fact check me there. So it's over the it's it's more than so a stick of butter is 113 grams. So it's more than that. Mm-hmm. I think so.
+
+[33:59] To how much flour? To oh my god. So what's with the olive oil? How do you what what's the what's the olive oil in it? What is that doing for it?
+
+[34:05] Okay, so olive oil and just regular oil usually in like a brownie recipe allows for more of that chewy, fudgy texture that you don't care that much about, but I do. And that's like, you know, whenever you do box mixed brownies, again, it's like an oil that you use, and that kind of creates the same texture. I never thought about it. Yeah, and olive oil for this, I was this is more of like the savory-toned brownie that we were kind of discussing before. It's just like I want to like really hit the umami.
+
+[34:28] And so MSG, it's not necessarily like you can taste it at a lot. It's more just like the sensation, like when you bite in the brownie and then it kind of lingers where it's like this mouth watering feel. And literally just like I need it to like I don't know, it's like a nice little hint and it plays well with the five spice and the salt. So what other like uh like what other baked goods? I mean, uh everyone at this point hopefully knows that like every baked good should have salt in it and every ice cream mix should have salt in it.
+
+[34:53] Speaking of which, how about the salted uh duck egg creme anglaise? Oh, yes, yes. I that was a fun one to come up with. But I think it just so yeah, it edges out the sweetness where it's not like you don't get sick of it, which I think. I don't know.
+
+[35:05] You don't get any textural issues getting the uh the cooked eggs in uh the not you know the salted duck eggs in with the thing or no? It's it's like it's a yeah, nice. No, it's kind of like you it emulsifies in pretty well, and it's not like you only use the salted duck eggs. Right, so it's like it's like half and half, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[35:20] It's really it's really easy. Yeah. Uh so what else what else do you think MSG works in for baked goods? You know, I think like I've never used it to bump up caramel, but like I feel like if I were to, I I always kind of lean into caramel as like a vehicle for more savory things. So, like in the book, I use the fermented chimp paste called buggowong.
+
+[35:39] But like I've seen like soy caramel, miso caramel, every kind of caramel is something. Yeah, well, salted caramel was such a huge thing, so why not why not a little lemon? A little bit, a little bit. Uh I bet you chalk chip cookies would be good. Oh, how do you like your chocolate?
+
+[35:52] How do you like it? Yeah, well, yeah. Well, so you can see so describe for people who can't uh well, okay. Well, we'll do the we'll do the tasting, we'll do the tasting uh in uh in a minute. Another uh thing I had a question about is uh hey, going back to the the going back to the uh uh Jack's uh love of his pretzel buns.
+
+[36:14] Just talk to me about dusting the tops of rolls with breadcrumbs. Because that seems like a cool that seems cool. Yeah, I mean, I think that's like just for uh a like a traditional Filipino pond de sal, like it's always kind of like a dusting of that and a coating where it's just like I'm maybe for like textural purposes, I think it's like you bite into it and then it's like just like a nice little even the slightest of crunches, but it still adds something to it. But I don't think I've ever had pondesol without the breadcrumbs on top. I think it's just like a very signature part of it.
+
+[36:42] And so, and so for those that don't know, I read the recipe, it's like medium, it's a medium fortified milk-based bread with like a medium amount of butter. It's not like brioche heavy, it's like light, it's like well, it's like closer to like the recipe looks like maybe a little more butter than a standard American hamburger roll, and there's some sugar in it, right? So you say it's you said it's kind of close to the Hawaiian, right? Yeah, yeah. There's a little bit.
+
+[37:04] There's like a like there's a Hawaiian King's Hawaiian vibe to it, but honestly, it's just like such a yeah, it's a staple breakfast thing where it's not super super sweet and as like king's hawaiian would be, but like there's a little bit of sweetness in there. And that one you do like a dull finish. You don't want that one glossy, at least not in your picture. I know, like not pro glossy pan de salt. But you know.
+
+[37:26] So what texture of bread crumb is that? Is that like like the like a standard like Italian progresso size bread crumb or standard? And the funny thing with like the I guess like logistics of like when you're grocery shopping for a cookbook, it's like I was running into a problem where I don't know why the plain breadcrumbs were out of stock at like Seatown or whatever, but they only had the Italian seasoning. I was like, I want the Italian seasoning breadcrumbs, but not panko, just like regular progressive. Yeah.
+
+[37:51] I mean, there is a period where everyone used panko panko is a miracle, but it's not for everything. No, yeah. It's not for everything. No. I mean, like, uh you ever gone down the internet rabbit hole of watching panko videos?
+
+[38:03] No. Wait, what's that? What do you mean? So panko. Panko is a technological marvel because it's panko is a crustless bread that's made only for for the crumbs, and it's baked between electric plates that cause it to rise straight up into this like thing.
+
+[38:24] It's then par dried and shredded. And so it's like very specific. This like weird bread, like cooked between these plates with no crust. I think I believe it's resistive heating, right? Don?
+
+[38:37] Yeah. And so like you go online, you're gonna do it, you're gonna go down a panko hole, and you're gonna be like, whoa. So cool. That's why it's that's why they're texturally so different. That's why you can't mimic panko just by having larger like Western bread crumbs.
+
+[38:55] It's not it's not just coarse breadcrumbs, right? And there are different sizes of panko, but the texture and the orientation of the of the bubbles in the crumb, totally different. So it's brown completely the same, like there's since there's no crust, like is it just like the same tone or uh yeah, so it's high yield in that way, right? But also like because it's cooked resistively between like the whole bread, like if you look at the panko breads, they're like tall. Like you think that they're baked this way, but they're not.
+
+[39:22] They're baked tall, and the bubbles go up like this. Like almost, yeah. And then um, yeah, they they can shred the whole the whole thing. But that structure in the way it's baked is why it can't be easily mimicked, and why you should not attempt. There are people who like try to make their own panko, but it's like, you know what?
+
+[39:42] It's like it's just one of those things that even I am like, no thanks. No, no, it's like pop rocks. Yeah, I tried that. You bought wait, you set up a resistance heater and you try to do it, or you try to do it in another. I just try I try to do it in the open.
+
+[39:58] It won't work. Yeah, apparently. Yeah. Quinn, man. There's some things, just you know, you know, there's some things.
+
+[40:09] Like, you know, Nastasia believes pasta's one of those things. You know, that uh that is true. Uh all right. Um now. So when I was reading your book, uh, you know, people who know me know that uh I like to I like pH shifts.
+
+[40:33] Okay. And um, so anytime there's alkaline cooking techniques that like that I don't understand, I'm like, wait, what? And that's what happened in the book, right? So, you know, lye water, uh, Filipino lye water, which is I guess similar to because it it it's not coming as a powder, comes as a liquid similar to consue, right? Uh, and then you know, down my little rabbit hole of uh looking for it, like they they have various different bases in them.
+
+[41:03] I haven't been able to determine exactly what the concentration is to make your own. I haven't figured it out yet. Yeah. The one that I ended up buying is sodium carbonate based, and you can make your own sodium carbonate, as Harold McGee said, uh, you know, in one of his New York Times things, by baking baking soda, right? But I don't know the I don't know the percentages.
+
+[41:23] So then you have these two starch-based uh Filipino uh desserts. Uh and I don't have your version because and I will discuss this. Uh we have uh the um cuchinta. That's how you pronounce that? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[41:37] The S uh T S is sh. Well, I'm so glad I did not try to pronounce it. I knew I I heard you struggle a little bit. I was like, I'm gonna save you right now. Yeah, say it again.
+
+[41:46] Cuchinta. All right. But for those of you who are pronunciation jerks like me and have no knowledge or culture, it looks like it says cut center. Yes, yes. You're not wrong.
+
+[41:56] Yeah, but Cachenta sounds the cooler. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. There's something about it. Yes.
+
+[42:00] Wait, why don't you so and then the other one, this is pronounced like it's written right, Pichi Peachy. Yeah, perfect. Uh Falkland. Uh and they they gave me this. So I bought this at uh uh a local place local to me.
+
+[42:15] I don't know whether it's any good, but the idea is that these starches are cooked with uh in an alkaline with alkaline water, and it uh affects the texture. I can tell you it affects the taste. I mean, like I keep my taste mind open for alkaline stuff all the time. So I love pretzels because they're you know alkaline. I love you know, uh, so I like to think about it.
+
+[42:40] So you want to describe these two things and the lye water and what it's for, and then we can discuss that no one has written good science papers on it. That's very true. Honestly, a lot of like even Filipino cooking is so oral that's like it just works because it works. And I was like, I have to describe this now. Um but like cuchinta and pitchy pitchy are under the umbrella of cacanin, which are the rice cake desserts slash snacks.
+
+[43:02] Um, and for cochinta, it's kind of like the the main flavor there is brown sugar, and then you're just mixing that with like different variations of sometimes tapioca, rice flour, tapioca flour, tapioca, rice flour, etc. And it has like this mochi-like texture after being steamed, and that's what we usually use like coconut as a toppings for. And they're like little discs. Oh, thank you. Uh little brown discs.
+
+[43:26] Uh, and then yeah, you add like a bunch of fresh coconut on top. Right. They these ones that we have here look like they were made in like uh in like a little uh like an egg tart ramekin or something. Yeah, yeah. And that's what I usually use, like little tart molds to steam them in.
+
+[43:40] Um and I'm gonna go ahead and you know, let's let's use this. Let's use a fork. We're doing some grated coconut on top. So these are like uh I mean they look like the color of brown sugar. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[43:51] Right. And they look like vaguely vaguely jelly-like, right? And the the texture is. Well, you got you need to try too, because you need to tell me whether this is a good one. Okay.
+
+[44:01] Okay, I'm just gonna pick up mine, but you can use your fork. Okay. And they're the color sometimes for traditional cuchinta, they get like a little bit of anatom to make it more different. Oh, that's right. You said they cheat.
+
+[44:10] They cheat. I mean, yeah, they're not using, yeah, it's not brown sugar solely that gets this color. Although you you you got me on that too, because she has these amazing looking shortbreads that are flavored with uh freeze-dried fruit, which is a great idea. And now I was like, your colors are so amazing. You're like, I cheated.
+
+[44:23] I know I can't, I can't live with myself. I'm Catholic. I'll be like going to confession for like, I'm so sorry to lie today. All right, so now the reason I brought these in, even though they're I didn't get a chance to make the recipe, right? But your recipe, because there's a recipes by the way, for both of the things we're talking about in the book, so you should pick up the book.
+
+[44:42] The reason I bought this is because I have no mental referent for this food. Yeah. And I don't like and we could talk about this because it's an interesting problem, right? So sometimes if there's no referent, I'll make something anyway, but then I'm making it the way I think it tastes good, which is different, and it ends up just tasting like the food that I always make. Whereas if it's possible, I like to have someone who knows be with me and taste it and say, this is an accurate representation so that I can recalibrate how my mind thinks for when I make it, and then when I make it, I can be like, oh, I'm good at this, I'm bad at this, or I want it this way or this way.
+
+[45:28] You know what I'm saying? So that's why I brought this here so we could see whether or not this is an accurate representation of this product. And I'm not saying where I bought it. Just in case. Just in case it's not an accurate representation of the product.
+
+[45:41] Um I don't know. This is a great I have like this is one of my favorite things at a Filipino party, honestly. And it's accurate to like my childhood any English now. It just a good bounce with like the lye water, just make sure it like solidifies enough to get to this texture. And is that the accurate amount of alkaline taste of lye water taste?
+
+[45:59] Because for me, like whenever I taste it, like I know it's there because I look for it. You know what I mean? But like I think if you didn't know a blind taste. Yeah, if you didn't know it was there, like you know, if you didn't even know what alkaline tasted like, maybe you wouldn't know that it was there. But like what would the texture be like if I cooked that without the lye water?
+
+[46:21] Would it be textually different or didn't just wouldn't have the lye water? I think it's something where I feel like lye water is also used for like ramen noodles sometimes, right? And so that also adds to the springiness and the bounciness there. Right, but that's a protein interaction. I mean, that's an interaction.
+
+[46:34] Yeah. I mean, with this too, I feel like there's a a similar thing where I think trying it without lye water, I remember in my tests, there's just not that um bounce back. Like I I there's no other way to say except that it's like there's no resistance when you chew through it. Right. Like, I mean, obviously there's like still like rice flour or tapioca flour, whatever combination of you know, uh, you know, starch there.
+
+[46:56] But you would think the tapioca would give you more more bounce, right? There is some of that. There is some of that, but like it's just yeah, there it it adds an extra oomph to that. Yeah. I know that's not like scientific term.
+
+[47:05] Well, what's what's interesting to me is that this is well, you know, you you say that like the there's like a lot of the the uh Filipino cooking is uh is oral, but there's also an amazing history of Filipino food scientists. You know what I mean? Especially women food scientists and botanists, and we'll talk about coconut sport in a little bit if we have yeah, we'll have time. And uh so I was just shocked that there was no information on this. And so I called, I like I did like a full-on trying to research in English, in English.
+
+[47:37] There's not a lot of uh stuff. And I call Harold McGee, I was like, yo, Harold, you know anything about you know anything about Filipino starch-based desserts with alkaline cooking. He's like, no, there's not much on it. And he sent me like the only thing he could find was um, and by the way, we could talk about this too. Like uh, I'm I'm not very good at things that are trendy because I'm a butt head and we could talk about that that later.
+
+[48:02] But uh uh because I never got on the grass jelly train. Did you ever get on the grass jelly train? I mean, that's like just like a Southeast Asian. We need grass, we love grass. Yeah, but it got huge it got huge in New York, like maybe like six, seven years ago.
+
+[48:14] We're talking about when there was like that trend where it's like the ice, like the the it's just clear and it's like, oh, it's jelly. Yeah, like rain, water, jelly. Well, no, but then there was no, there was like the the black, the black jelly, the grass jelly, like it's got hu huge here from my everyone's talking about it, so I was like, you know what? No, I'm not gonna. I don't know why.
+
+[48:29] Cause I'm like that. Same thing with Ube, like it got huge. I'm like, nope, you know what? No. And it's uh it's a sickness that I have.
+
+[48:35] It's the same way that like in when I was a kid, I didn't want to listen to the same music other people listen to. It's the hipster. Yeah, I was like, no. I was like, hell with this. No, I'll wait until people stop caring about it, and then I'll care about it deeply.
+
+[48:48] Anyway, it's a mental problem, and I shouldn't be that way, but I've always been that way. Um so anyway, uh apparently uh there is a starch interaction uh from because you know, there's that member of the mint family whose name I forget that they make the grass jelly out of, and you have to boil it for a long time in alkaline water. But that's the only paper that he was able to find on it. There's not a lot of yeah, not a lot of work. I'm sorry, I know, I'm sorry I can't add as much to that either.
+
+[49:14] But yeah, so I was like, oh, what's going on here? So what do you think, John? I have no idea. No, the taste. Oh, the taste, I like it.
+
+[49:14] Yeah, yeah. Do you taste the alkaline? Not I don't really know if I know what alkaline tastes like now that I'm trying to do it. It's more, it's it's more uh you can tell tell more in the here. Talk about talk about this product now.
+
+[49:34] So that you you describe the I get it right, kachinta, cachinta? Cachenta, yeah. And in my book, I change it slightly with like Thai tea. And that also adds the flavor and also color that's traditional with cochinta, but the pitchy pitchy is like cassava and also like sugar and water. And it seems like this is rolled in like some more coconut.
+
+[49:52] Yeah, yours look easier to eat than this one. Yeah, this this one is like okay, this and to describe it's like in blocks. And for mine, I like to do like little like uh discs, and they're coated in coconut um as well. But mine are like flavored with chamoy and raspberry, and so it's like a fruitier flavor, and definitely not traditional at all. But this, we're gonna see.
+
+[50:14] Sometimes also I've noticed people love, you know, if you like salty sweet, we've had cheese on top of this in the past with my family. But so this, for those of you who can't see, it looks this one's like looks like uh lemon or pineapple curd. Yeah, it this is kind of like a yeah, it's like a butter yellow yeah, very interesting and like semi-translucent. It's when I say the reason I say uh like a like a lemon curd is it looks like a citrus product that has that's being clouded by butter, but it's not. It's none of those things.
+
+[50:45] So what what goes in this? Literally just like cassava, uh grated cassava. And use the frozen grated, yeah. Usually. There's not, I definitely don't like to put in the effort most of the time to like grate that cassava by hand.
+
+[50:57] And so it's like usually my mom would always have this with just regular frozen cassava. Is there an is the frozen cassava just as good as the uh as the grating it fresh? Like honestly, between you and me and everyone who's listening? Yeah, uh frozen grated is fine. Like is this accurate?
+
+[51:17] Mm-hmm. All right. But it's like you'll see. Are you getting more of the uh of the lye water on that? Yeah.
+
+[51:23] That's really delicious. It's interesting. So this texture is so much softer and the flavor comes in leaves faster. I think you can get that, you know where that lie not's not lie, it's sodium carbonate, probably, probably. It could be a different thing, but you could get where it is.
+
+[51:47] But so this is an accurate representation of what's of what's going on? Yeah. Of the texture? This texture is right to me. So how do you describe how so how would you describe this texture as well?
+
+[51:56] It's definitely a lot less bouncy than the cochinto, right? Yeah. And uh is yours bouncier than this? Like, will it get bouncier? No, this is this is pretty similar to mine.
+
+[52:07] And I feel like this when you put it in the fridge and everything, and it just stays like this texture. Um I I it just kind of sucks. Okay, this is like the thing that I I don't love about this dessert, is that it gets very like all over your hands. And um, I think like I use like no oh thank you. I usually use actually like uh what's it called?
+
+[52:26] Just like desiccated coconut as the coating because it does like allow less of like the tackiness and it just like kind of absorbs not absorbs, I guess maybe absorbs, but less like protects your hands, and that's not like an important thing of the flavor or anything, but it was just like something I noticed about this variation. So while you're talking about coconut, why don't you talk about the crazy variety of awesome different Filipino coconut products? Mm-hmm. There's um Nata de Coco, which is like a coconut gel. And if you've ever had like lychee jelly and like a boba drink or something, that's exactly what that is kind of made from.
+
+[52:58] And they just flavor it with like lychee extract, probably. But it's like this like nice, satisfying, chewy, like juicy chew. Um, and I love that in like buco pundan salad and fruit salad. It's like a very much a staple of like our cold desserts and like halahalo as well. It uses notta de coco.
+
+[53:16] It's also a crazy product because it's it's uh bacterial cellulose. Oh, that's the scientific. Well, it's like you know, you ferment it and the and the bacteria grows as cellulose. I think it's very similar to the hard stuff in kombucha. Oh, I think it's fascinating.
+
+[53:32] I think so. I don't know, I don't never I mean, I don't taste the stuff on top of kombucha, so I don't know. You know what I mean? But I think it's structurally similar, like a like a cellulose thing. And I've never I've had it, but I've never had a I was reading that they also make it from pineapple juice.
+
+[53:47] Is that good? There's like yeah, the pineapple flavored ones. That's pretty um, I feel like I would just like maybe stray away from every try to like have a specific uh, you know, like buco pandan is like very delicate coconut flavors. We don't want pineapple in that mix in case you're a little adventurous, who knows? But um usually it's funny like ill in the Filipino grocery stores, you'll see it in like different colors sometimes.
+
+[54:06] Like they just like dye it with like red or with green, but like it's usually preserved in syrup and that what allows it to like stay shelf stable for a while. Yeah, talk to me about the uh talk to me about the uh the coconut sport. Oh, coconuts where macapuno. Okay, so macapuno is like one of the like it's like it literally when you look it up on Wikipedia, it's like a genetic mutation of coconut. So when you open up like a young coconut and it's just like pretty much like jelly-like inside, that is literally what that is.
+
+[54:32] And I don't even know, like, and then because people are like this is yummy and tasty, they start to like genetically like reproduce these things and like um actually I guess like harvest this type of coconut for for intentionally, not on accidentally. Oh well, I went down a rabbit hole on that too. Crazy story. Tell tell me more. Well, I mean, I know little about it, uh you know, from a culinary standpoint, other than it's real interesting, it's like softer, it's good.
+
+[54:59] You mean you obviously like hey, you use it a lot in the thing. You know, I mean it how does it taste different by the way when you get it in the can and syrup versus if you were able to get it like fresh? I've never had it fresh. I don't know who has it fresh, but I really want to try it one day. All right, so here's the story that I read.
+
+[55:14] So yeah, it was it's a mutation that naturally occurs in uh in coconut palms from time to time that's recessive because the embryo of the nut can't grow. So there's there wasn't a way to propagate. So if you had a tree that was had the recessive gene in it and then it was fertilized by another one that was recessive, you would occasionally get these makapuno like, and so the entire inside, like you say, is filled with this like very and so it was a huge delicacy because it was super rare, and you couldn't know until you cracked open the nut whether you were gonna get it or not. So even on a tree that was recessive, that was, and so people would plant a bunch of these recessive ones near each other, hoping to get like one, but still it was only like like somewhere like between two and like seven or eight percent of the of the nuts would have this thing. So the price was through the roof, and it's still more expensive than regular coconut meat.
+
+[56:07] Oh, yeah, you would just and that you buy it in jars here, and it's like also imported, so it's always so expensive to get, but uh, usually uh traditionally it's like used in tandem a lot with ube, so it's like ube macapuno cake is like very, very common of like a flavor. Um, and I don't know, there's something that's just like it's it's softer to me whenever I eat like that versus just like a fresh, like even like coconut meat. Um, and I don't know, like there's it's just like really nice and sweet, and I I have it on top of like this ube macapuno lava cake in my rep in my book. And so I don't know, it's like it is. I would recommend anyone who hasn't had it to try it just to like again have a sense of what it is.
+
+[56:45] Well, so this food scientist who as of 2020, she was still alive. Her name was uh Amerita de Guzman in the Philippines, figured out a way to break open the coconut, like determine that it was makapuno, cut out that just the embryo, and raise the embryo, like it's called it's called embryo rescue. And they rate she raised the embryos on their on their own, so she was able to take ones that were double recessive and grow them as plants, and she was able to get the yield of makapuno nuts from like seven percent up to like eighty percent. And so, like all of a sudden it became viable to grow the makapuno uh coconuts. That's amazing.
+
+[57:35] Yeah, I had no idea. Yeah, cool, right? Cool story. No, it's really cool. Um science right there.
+
+[57:40] Oh my god. Science. That's what this one we're here for. Science. Uh all right.
+
+[57:43] So let's talk about this cookie before we run out of time. So what what cookie did you bring? Um, I brought the adobo chocolate chip cookies um that were featured recently in the New York Times. Oh, nice. So congratulations.
+
+[57:53] Yeah, thank you. It's been great to like see this, the reception of this cookie. It's like nice example again of sweet, salty umami. Um I use soy sauce in there instead of salt in the dough. And then I also use bay leaf to brown the butter.
+
+[58:06] Um we got two minutes. Oh, bay leaf in the butter? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so like there's pink peppercorn on top, so if you have a cashew allergy, maybe stay away, but it's a great mix of a little bit of henna spice and floral. So this is like so you're saying like this is the kind of sinequan non of your fusion of savory with with uh sweet.
+
+[58:22] Yeah. Oh nice. Yeah, you know me. You eat and discuss, I'm gonna have to ask more questions. We're gonna run out of time.
+
+[58:30] Okay. Saba banana Saba banana. Can't get it here. Maduro plantains a direct swap, it's good. Mm-hmm.
+
+[58:38] It's good. All right. So that that was a good hack. I like that. You're like, just use the plantains.
+
+[58:42] I swapped out for plantains. And you said you can. You said uh what is it? You said your whose recipe was that? Was that your mom's or your aunt's or something like that?
+
+[58:48] That residue? There's like one that's like mommy's uh guinnetang wheel be loan and we use that for sure. And and she was cool with it? She's cool with it. A plus from her.
+
+[58:57] Yeah. Uh what about this? Uh I I'm not gonna make it because I don't like melons, but what about the the uh the chicharron crunch crumbly chip roll on top of it? I like a I like a sweet uh a sweet uh pork rind situation. So I think I was really inspired by prosciutto and like melon rind, and I wanted something that had the same flavor profile, and like that's a crumble to me, I guess.
+
+[59:15] Alright, so okay, we're gonna run out of time. Talk to me quickly about uh roast rice coffee. Roast rice coffee. So in the Philippines, but you don't like regular coffee though. I am a hater, I don't love coffee.
+
+[59:24] And so like uh roast rice has no caffeine and also has like the dark, dark uh notes of like a roasted coffee, but I use it in terama soup, so it's a great swap. And you show how to make it yourself, you just toast it and then grind it. And is it good to drink? Well, uh, you can drink it. I mean, it's more so just like it it's just like a roasted flat kind of flavor, but it's good for a termas sou.
+
+[59:46] Alright, talk to me about uh Frito Crunch and corn milk pudding. Ooh, okay, that's the malted milk mahablanca. And so I love the sweet and salty again of the Fritos, so I put a toffee um with that on top of a malted milk, corn and uh coconut milk pudding, and it's like my mom's recipe, but I tweaked it again. All right. Well, all right, well, we run out of time.
+
+[1:00:05] I could ask you more because I wanted to talk to you about your carrot fritters and whether there's a problem with them. Because there's no binder, just cornstarch, right? Do they hold together really well? They hold together, but you have to kind of like tamp it down and like make sure to use some pressure to keep it together. Alright, and you know, I was gonna talk to you for a long time about pork floss, but because I love it so much.
+
+[1:00:23] Um I was gonna ask you about this water buffalo milk. Can you get that in the US? You can get it in Queens. Is it good? It's pretty good.
+
+[1:00:30] Worth worth searching for? Worth it. Mario's Bulacan Suites. I'll shout them out because I've tried them before. All right, all right, all right.
+
+[1:00:35] And uh um, since you said it was good, uh the uh the pastries we got today, uh other than the one you baked for us, thank you so much, were from Johnny's Air Mart in Avenue A. Or Johnny Air Martin in uh on Avenue A. Anyway, uh Abby, thank you so much for coming on, coming on uh uh anytime. And the book is Mayumu, Filipino American Desserts Remixed Cooking Issues. Thank you.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you alive from the heart of Manhattan at Rockefeller Center, New York City. Joined in the studio with holy crap, I just got dizzy. For the first time in a long time doing this, I like I clenched my body so tight that like the blood went out of my head for a minute, and I almost just passed out. Anyway, joined as usual with John sitting here in front of me.
+
+[0:36] How are you doing? Doing great. Got Joe Hazen running the panels over here. How you doing? I'm doing very well, man.
+
+[0:41] Good to see you guys. Good to see you. This is a no tangent Tuesday, by the way. Yes, sir. That means only tangents.
+
+[0:46] Only tangents. Uh in the I don't know. Okay, so I know that there was like over the weekend possibility of molecules in Connecticut with uh Nastasia, but I didn't hear any explosions coming from the direction of Stanford, so I don't know. Where where are you now, Jack? I'm still in DC, but I was indeed uh at Nastasi's over the weekend.
+
+[1:10] Yeah. You had good weather. Yeah, it was fantastic. For normal people. We had Peter Kim there.
+
+[1:16] It was. All right, nice, nice. I hated it, the weather. I was in New Haven, and I forgot to bring my hat. So every time I walked outside, I was like, like vampire action went off.
+
+[1:27] You know what I mean? Yeah, I hate that good weather. There's nothing worse than good weather right at the right at the water, too. There's no protection. You know what I mean?
+
+[1:35] But everyone else thinks the exact opposite. Very hot take, dude. I'm not saying that you should hate it. I'm just saying this is what the my worst thing is. See, I think most hot takes they try to tell other people what's good or bad.
+
+[1:47] I'm just saying what's bad for me. You know what I mean? Fair. Yeah. And how much was it take about being hot, technically, so it was.
+
+[1:56] It's not even just heat. Like it doesn't have to be hot. It's just, you know, uh, it's like I it's weird because I like garlic. You know what I mean? And I'm fine with wooden crosses, but the sunlight just burns straight into me.
+
+[2:09] Just burns. Like I just like, even if it's not hot out, it just really just nukes me. It's no good. Uh how about you, how about you, Nastasia? How are you doing?
+
+[2:18] And you're in Stanford right now, I assume. No, remember I'm in Portland, Oregon. Oh. With your brother? I don't remember that.
+
+[2:26] But I knew you were going at some point, but I don't know what day is what day. So I don't know where I am day to day, Nastasia. How can I remember? How can I remember where you are day to day when I can't remember where I'm going to be from day to day? Because we talked about meeting up with Aaron.
+
+[2:40] Yes, I'm like the but the point is that I don't remember what day anything happens in my own life. Never expect me to remember what's happening in your life, right? That's fair. Well, I mean not fair, but so you're very close to where uh where my man Quinn is in the upper upper left. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[3:00] Yeah, yeah. How far is it from Portland to Vancouver? It's gotta be like, but it's got it's still far. It's still gotta be like six-hour drive or some crap. Right?
+
+[3:10] Seven, seven. Some of it. Whole state of Washington can't go through. Right? Whole state.
+
+[3:16] I remember my grandpa drove me from Portland, Oregon, to Mount St. Helens in an extremely underpowered early, early 80s Dodge motorhome. Now, my grandfather, being uh cheaper even than I am, right? Got the tiniest motor. My the this motorhome, and this is when I was going up the coast of uh the west coast of the United States uh with my grandma, my grandpa, their two daughters, including the one dog that uh my stepfather says is the only dog model he's ever seen for uh for schizoaffective disorder, because he just really the reactions this dog had were nuts, and the parrot, all in this like underpowered motor home.
+
+[4:01] The motorhome had fundamentally a sewing machine motor. So we drove from Portland up to Mount St. Helens, and this was to give you a thing. This was the year of the eruption. So it was like maybe two, three months after the eruption, and it was good.
+
+[4:15] So I don't remember how long the drive was. How far is Mount St. Helens from you, Quinn? Probably I have no idea. Yeah.
+
+[4:26] That's true. I always know where you are, Quinn. That's good. You're always, always gonna be holding down that upper, upper left, left quadrant, you know. I have I'll have to say this also.
+
+[4:36] I've never been on on our continent, I've never been north of you ever. I've been to Vancouver. Does anyone I guess Alaska? Alaska's north. I've never been.
+
+[4:45] I would like to go. Stasia, maybe someday, if we ever make it, we'll get on a plane and go steal one of Steve Hubachek's giant cabbages. What do you say? Yes. Yes.
+
+[4:57] Well, what do you think would happen? I bet you Steve Hubachek, even though he's just like, you know, kind of a well, not a regular Alaskan dentist because he grows the world's largest cabbages. So that's not regular, right? He can't just be your bog standard dentist, even in Alaska. I bet you there's some alarms on those suckers.
+
+[5:15] I bet you. I bet you even within the giant cabbage community, there is sabotage. And so Steve Hubachak probably has his giant cabbage. For those of you that don't know, Alaska grows the biggest cabbages anywhere because they have huge long periods of sunlight during the period where the cabbages are growing bigger. And Steve Hubachek, last time we checked, which was what like eight years ago, was the best or the the largest grower of uh grower of largest cabbages.
+
+[5:45] I bet you those things are protected. What do you think, Stas? I don't know. It doesn't look like it online. I'm looking.
+
+[5:52] I I it doesn't seem yeah. Is he still the last time he went 16? So yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[6:01] Wait. So wait, so you're saying he's no longer on the internet as like someone has surpassed him. There's like uh there's a pretender to the Hubachek throne. I don't know. I'm can't find anything right now.
+
+[6:14] Listen, if we can find anyone in uh in that part of Alaska, I forget the name of the valley where they all the all the great cabbages in the world are from this valley. If you grow a very large cabbage, we would like to ship it to us and power saw that thing into the world's largest single cabbage coleslaw. We want to make let me ask you this. Should we do the world's largest single cabbage coleslaw or the world's largest single cabbage batch of sauerkraut? No, I want the cabbage stuff with the with the meat.
+
+[6:46] The world like with a whole cow. That'd be huge. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[6:52] So you're a turkey, turkey cabbage roll wrapped in a giant fermented reef. Well, but a giant fermented cabbage leaf, you mean. Yeah. So we would have to somehow. Okay, here's the issue.
+
+[7:05] Here's the issue. We need to get salt into the whole thing, right? But we don't want the leaves to break, and I'm assuming they're pretty brittle, right? So we might, and this is not what you should do. So don't get angry at me, people, but we might have to like steam pre-wilt the leaves so that we can get them off.
+
+[7:22] But I've never fermented steamed, par steamed cabbage before. I don't know whether it's going to be good or bad. I've I've never seen it. Well, it's just so how? It's huge.
+
+[7:34] No one has a vacuum chamber that big. I mean, what we could do, I mean, uh barring having a huge we it's not just the middle, it's the individual leaves we need to wilt. We could just submerge the whole thing in an above-ground swimming pool of salt water. That will desiccate it, right? Then we can pull the leaves off, then they would ferment in a reasonable amount of time, then we can make the giant stuffed cabbages, right?
+
+[8:07] But like this are we talking like do we like grind up one whole animal and then put it inside of a turkey and then wrap that in a stuffed cabbage? But think of the number of tomatoes we would have to buy to make the tomato sauce to go on that. It would be absurd. Yeah, but you could do just a few, a few leaves of the giant cabbage. You have to make the whole thing.
+
+[8:34] Yeah, I mean, like, what do you want us to do like a bunch of different things? Like I'm just saying, one of the benefits of fermenting the cabbage is it's gonna last a while. So you can make, you know, a cabbage roll party of giant stuffed animal cabbages. You know, yeah, one night. Originally the concept was I mean, like, you know, we have like uh uh a a single party, you buy a uh a new chainsaw that's never been used, and for bar oil you use salad oil, right?
+
+[9:03] Because you don't want you know, you don't want non food grade oil in your in your thing. And then we like and then like a large crowd eats it. It's not like we're not putting it down for the winter, Quinn. You know what I mean? Like we're we're trying to consume this sucker as fast as it's humanly possible.
+
+[9:19] I also have no idea how I have no idea how tough the rib of a cabbage that size is I because I cut out a portion of the rib when I'm doing the cabbage things, even when they're fermented, you know what I mean? You know how you have to cut out a lot of the rib if you're if they're not fermented? Yeah. I cut out some of the rib, even when they're fermented, even then. You know what I mean?
+
+[9:40] You know what I'm saying? A little bit, a little bit. But like when a cabbage leaf is the size of your whole circuit. Yeah, that'd be yeah. You know, it's gonna be toothome.
+
+[9:51] That is a good word, toothome. It's gonna be toothsome for sure. Uh yeah, but I mean, Nastasi, can't you see it now? Like a like a like a chainsaw cabbage party at uh in Stanford? Yeah, that would be fun.
+
+[10:04] Yeah, it'll be fun. Uh so you could you could ship it here and be a shorter distance. Yeah, but then we wants it for him. Yeah, but then we'd have to ship ourselves there too. It's 901, 12 or the other, as they say.
+
+[10:18] Yep. Dave. I have um yesterday we drove down to the beach in in Portland or in Oregon, and uh we stopped by a jerky shop, and I got uh kangaroo jerky, alligator jerky, and elk jerky. Uh okay. Are you have you already eaten them or are you gonna eat them live in front of us and give us a comparison?
+
+[10:37] No, I was gonna bring it to the studio when I'm back. Oh, okay. All right, we'll do a comparison. I like that. I like that.
+
+[10:43] Uh was was there a particular shtick that this uh game jerkyist had? Like something like a a story behind them? Just jerk you walk in and you're like, what do you got? Person's like jerky. And you're like, like what?
+
+[10:58] He's like, name the animal. Jerker. You're like, yeah. Like what's an animal, what's an animal that you would eat jerky of that you've never seen? Kangaroo.
+
+[11:12] True. And I'm super happy that we're gonna have that kangaroo jerky. Uh I'm it's gonna be, it's gonna be the worst meats that I've ever eaten are raccoon, terrible. The bear I had, because the bear was old, terrible. Uh though I hear bear is quite delicious.
+
+[11:32] Uh, when it's, you know, whatever, the Hokkaido bear and or whatever, the young bear, whatever. Uh what else did we make that was terrible? So uh I've had really bad alligator. I've had neutral alligator and I've had bad bad alligator. I've never had alligator where I'm like, all right, you know what I mean?
+
+[11:47] Yeah, yeah. But I'm interested in the alligator jerky. Oh, the lion. Did you hate the lion? I didn't hate the lion.
+
+[11:55] By the way, we did not cover the lion tastes like overly tough pork. You know? Yeah. Uh but the raccoon I remember being terrible. The beaver tail.
+
+[12:09] Smell. Wait, what? Beaver tail was good. Beaver tail smell. That was smell.
+
+[12:14] Oh, uh the flapper, yeah. When we were so anytime you're rendering skin to make uh chicharones, so like, you know, not like classic ones, but like, you know, pork rind style, right? So in other words, you cook the skin for a long time, you know, in water. You you do you gelatinize the skin, you pull it, you scrape the excess fat, you dehydrate it, and then you fry it to get puffed, like store-bought pork pork rind texture. And you can do that with beaver flapper.
+
+[12:39] The smell of pork skins cooking is not good. Uh the smell of you after you scraped all the fat off the back side of cooked pork skins is unpleasant at best. It's worse, I think, than like that I've been butchering salmon smell. You know that I've been butchering salmon smell that you can't get out of your freaking hands. Yeah.
+
+[13:01] And like even one salmon and booker freaking butchers salmon pieces on my board all the time and doesn't properly clean it. It drives me freaking nuts. First of all, he pulls out a freaking bread knife and cuts fillets with a bread knife on my board and then leaves this like smear of fish on my board. Makes me so bent. I get so bent.
+
+[13:27] And then when he does clean it, he does a terrible job, so it still smells like fish. So I have to clean it anyway, but I feel like I am obliged to make him clean it because if I don't, then I'm not setting him up for later in life. Anyway, so uh the smell of the pig skin is nasty when you're when you're cooking it. And I like pig. And I like, I like how do we say it in a sense?
+
+[13:50] Brothel, a brushole with the pig skin like rolled up. But uh, although my family didn't really make it with pig skin. The pig skin and the what about you, Quinn? You brojole family or no? Uh are you more of a chili family?
+
+[14:04] No, but yeah, like nowadays, lately, lately, my dad'll make uh various pig skin uh rigors and stews. Well, I don't think we ever did the rolled pig skin. Yeah, what we used to do is all the rolled like slices of Yeah, that's what we did. That's that's what that's what we did that way. Although I have to say, my trick, my my special trick for uh when I pressure cook uh pork shoulder is to remove the skin, pressure cook the pork uh sh uh the skin with the meat, pull it, and then blend this the uh cook skin into the sauce, and it's like uncuous city.
+
+[14:39] It's like shabang. You know what I mean? The sauce just gets like that, not over, you know, it's not overly gelatinous, but it gets that and then that it sets up like hard as a rock, like a ping-pong ball. When you make a stock and it cools and it's doesn't set, aren't you like, oh very sad, yeah. It's sad, yeah.
+
+[15:00] Yeah. Like to me, it's like a a mark of success. You know what I mean? You've made it. Absolutely, yeah.
+
+[15:06] Uh you know how old I'm getting. I forgot who saying looks like we made it yesterday. And Jen was like, Barry Manilow, you idiot. You idiot. Anyway.
+
+[15:16] Um, all right. So uh this isn't no tangent Tuesday, so before we do any any culinary stuff from last week, that you guys want to get out before uh you forget it. I mean, we should probably talk about the spinzel again. Okay. What do you want to say?
+
+[15:30] What are we allowed to say? What do you got for me, Quinn? Well, I mean uh something I realized about last week's uh discussion of it. We didn't tell people where to go. Oh, yeah.
+
+[15:41] Okay, this is the worst website name of all time. All right. I'm ready. This is dumb diddy dumb diddy dumb dum dum dumb. You are dot cool forward slash spinzall.
+
+[15:59] Now it's like Oh wow, it works. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It should be. But it's not even it's it's the letter U, the letter R.
+
+[16:14] Letter U, letter R. Cool. Now, I think I should say that if you have to say that you're cool, you are not cool. Right? I mean, I would have been happier if it were UR.dumb forward slash uh slash.
+
+[16:36] By the way, they just say I know that everyone just says slash now, but like I'm old, so I will continue to say forward slash or uh as opposed to backslash. Uh and you can't stop me. I guess that's not true. You could come here and beat me up. But I'm gonna say forward slash.
+
+[16:49] Yeah, that's a dumb Sas. When when you heard what that URL was, weren't you like, what'd you say? I well, I read it that that was what it was gonna be, and I groaned. Yeah, you're like shaking, shaking your head. I could hear, I could hear the waves from you shaking your head.
+
+[17:04] No, no. Why did you think say something, Dave? Because it was already set up. You know? What am I gonna do?
+
+[17:15] Anyway, so uh we that's why I was asking about the Barry Manilo thing, because it looks like it looks like we're very close to saying looks like we made it, right? Yeah, I think. Yeah. And uh Nastan. People can also go to either your Instagram or the Booker and Dex Instagram or Booker and Dex.com.
+
+[17:36] And there's also links to in all of those places to the pre-sale. All right. Well, if we're gonna talk spinz all for a minute, uh I'm we were supposed to put out a bunch of content, but luckily we had a bunch of people who knew about it already, and so that's why you know we're close to making it. By the way, Stas, in the I two things you're gonna hate. First of all, what's your favorite Barry Manilo song?
+
+[17:57] Um I don't know right now. Yeah, yeah. Uh, I'm gonna throw some out. Copacabana overplayed, correct? Yeah, I don't like it.
+
+[18:08] Okay. Mandy. That's pretty good. It's a good song. Gave and gave without taking.
+
+[18:15] I love it. Anyway, uh, so maybe we'll, you know, we'll do a cover version of that uh for the Patreon group. We won't, but that would be amazing. Imagine if we did uh looks like we made it or a Mandy cover. If we started doing karaoke for the Patreon, we would lose all of our patrons.
+
+[18:29] Yeah, I don't do karaoke, so I don't usually do karaoke. In fact, okay, so I was at my 30th reunion, and by the way, the majority of the people there looked awesome. I went to college in New Haven, i.e. Yale, and I went to the uh the reunion and they did a karaoke. And if you're my age, which is 52, if you're my age, uh there are certain songs you will hear when people play songs for people your age.
+
+[18:54] And everyone has different ones, right? So for us, you can't get out of an event without hearing Groovis in the Heart by Delight, and I love that song. That's great. You can't overplay Bootsy ever, right? That's not possible to overplay Bootsy Collins.
+
+[19:04] That's just nothing happened. But if I never hear Come on Eileen by Dexie and the Midnight Runners, and I had to hear it twice, and it's not that it's a bad song, it's just I'm done. You know what I mean? And someone they they had a karaoke thing. I stepped in and they were doing Dexie and the Midnight Runners.
+
+[19:19] And I'm not saying that I hadn't had anything to drink because that would be a lie, but I was told that I was being a little bit aggro with my uh I think I used the words basic and that you know Dexie needs to fall off the face of the earth. I just went ape on them because it just why would anyone need that? What do you think, Stas? I hate that song. Yeah.
+
+[19:44] What so when you're at these kind of events for people your age, what's the song that you ha that's gonna happen that like you can't get around happening it? I don't go to reunions, you know this. I hate that stuff. You've never been to something with people your age and people are playing songs to pander to you? Ever?
+
+[20:03] Wow. All right. Anyone else? Anyone else got their their age, gonna age themselves with the panda songs? I don't keep in touch with people, right?
+
+[20:12] I don't keep in touch with people, so it's my opportunity to say, Oh, you're still alive, isn't that nice? You know what I mean? And I went to uh I went to uh, you know, in New Haven, there's a place called Louie's Lunch, which is one of the famous new um um Connecticut burgers, right? And the thing about Louie's Lunch is is that they put their burgers on white toast, and the white toast is in a vertical toaster, they put cheese whiz on it and a slice of onion, and then they put their burgers in what amounts to these vertical crematoriums. So it's like these like crematorium doors open, and you know, that you see the flame coming out of it, and they put the little they put it on the gurney and they put it into the crematorium and they shut it and it comes out, and then they slice it.
+
+[20:52] And it used to be that they would kick you out if you asked for ketchup and like threaten you with weapons and stuff. I don't think they do that anymore. They also used to literally only be open for lunch, and now they're open until 1 a.m. But two years in a row I've tried to go to it and uh they've run out of meat, and I was un I was unpleased. I was like, hey, how about this?
+
+[21:12] You buy more meat. Yeah. How about that? How about you buy enough freaking meat? I mean it is a pretty tiny place where they're gonna store it.
+
+[21:18] I don't care. You get an extra delivery in the middle of the day. I mean like you know it's true. Money is money. And then someone was like someone my friend was like well you you think you think you know you deserve it and the people who came earlier don't serve it.
+
+[21:31] I'm like no we all deserve the burger. I would like to hand them money and in exchange I would like to have a burger. And it's not like freaking barbecue places don't make the comparison with like the hill country barbecue places where they should also buy more meat. But on the other hand it's like there, you know the cook time is like you know 12 hours or whatever. So it's like I get it you know you you you make what you want and then when it's over it's over a burger is like whap whap boom whap whap whap boom you can make more you can make more it's much more of an Alamanude situation.
+
+[22:04] Oh the toaster's tired no suck it buy more meat anyway so I didn't get to have uh my reunion burger I'm displeased and then I've sucking this guy his kid right he's uh he's you know he's it's he's college age right because he's and he's like I don't like that burger I'm like okay he's like I'm from Oklahoma and we season things differently in Oklahoma as though like it's the seasoning that matters on that burger. I don't understand it. Anyone from Oklahoma who can hear me tell me what is an Oklahoma burger that makes it so Oklahoma. Well I think we're gonna have a guest on soon who will be able to discuss that yeah yeah yeah every night my honey lamb and I, we sit alone and talk, watch a hawk. That's no talk no talk no gawk?
+
+[22:50] No. Hawk? No. Making burgers in the sky. Well, he makes burgers, but not in the sky.
+
+[22:54] Oh, that's right. We uh he's from he's from Oklahoma. Oh no, he's like it's a specialty. Oh, yeah, yeah. George Motz is coming on.
+
+[22:59] When is that? Quinton. Uh June 20th. There we go. 1920th.
+
+[23:04] Okay. All right. So we'll figure out. Oh, guess what else I did in New Haven? Went to Olmo.
+
+[23:08] Uh Craig Hutchinson was on the show a couple of months ago. Had some bagels in in New Haven. Very good. Enjoy it. Go get uh those high extraction bagels.
+
+[23:17] Yeah. Anyway. So at the reunion, they just got chain bagels. They got chain bagels. And I'm looking at the bagels, and I'm like, I don't want, I don't want chain bagels.
+
+[23:28] And people were eating the chain bagels. I'm like, we could just walk two blocks and get a bagel by someone who's doing something interesting. That's interesting. Good. Anyway, I went.
+
+[23:38] Whatever. Okay. Anything else for anyone? Any uh food uh related McGillikuddies before we get into the questions? No.
+
+[23:48] No? Uh no. No? Okay. Uh Alexander Talgard writes in uh hey, here again, finally back on Patreon.
+
+[23:55] Oh, by the way, people should join the Patreon. What do you get? Uh what do you get, John, if you join the Patreon? And you can call your questions in too 917-410-1507. That's 917-4101507.
+
+[24:05] You get access to a whole bunch of cool things like our Discord, uh access to discounts in kitchen arts and letters, uh prioritized questions getting answered, especially on days like today, no tangent Tuesdays. Um, Edwards Age Meets, who sells absolutely fantastic products. Um yeah, so just cool things. So check it out. Yeah, go ahead and go for it.
+
+[24:30] The community map. That's right, the community map, too, that everyone hopefully has been uploading to and keeping active. Someone had a hard time finding it, so we're gonna put on the Patreon, I think, an easier way to find it, right? Or Quinn, did you talk to that that patron who had a I mean I gave them a link. Okay.
+
+[24:46] Yeah. Also, like cool. Bonus videos. Yeah, so the avoiding the warranty video on uh how to make uh a less expensive frozen drink machine work with alcohol, that's upright, Quinn. Yep.
+
+[25:02] Yeah, and pretty much warranty with David. Yeah, yeah. I've been building a four-ton juice press. And uh the build for that's going up on the Patreon. Now I'm not suggesting that you build a four, you definitely should not build a four-ton juice press the way I'm doing it because at this point I probably should have just bought a used Norwalk, but this is more powerful than a Norwalk.
+
+[25:22] See, for the book, you know, I'm you're doing this in your apartment? Yeah. How does Jen feel about that? What's uh what's something the opposite of pleased? Well, I'm trying to like uh yeah, it's not the best.
+
+[25:35] I'm using 8020 extrusions, which are relatively expensive, but I want it to be kind of nice. Four tons for a six-inch square pless plate, uh, pressing about two liters of product, it's good. So I'm getting like I'm getting like 50% or so yield of no more than 50% yield of juice on ginger. I'm getting like off raw ginger, like higher on Apple, like I don't care. And it's good.
+
+[25:58] Like the stuff that's left has no taste. I honestly I don't believe that cold pressed juice is any better than regular juice, and there is some data backing me up, but I I I don't know enough to say. I originally got the uh press we had at existing conditions for like squeezing grapes and for like squeezing like all of the liquid out of the waffles after we did the waffle infusion or after we did Don did a banana bread infusion, which did a lot or a pumpkin. They're both delicious uh with bourbon. So like bourbon with any of those sweetbreads is delicious.
+
+[26:26] It's delicious with waffles, it's delicious with pumpkin, it's delicious with banana bread. And when you put it into a press and squeeze it out, you get everything back out of it. Everything. Yeah. So anyway, I've tested so far in the four-ton press ginger juice and carrot juice and carrot apple juice.
+
+[26:46] Yeah. Now, uh I'll say this on ginger juice. I'm making a video, and you can go see me clarify ginger juice on the modernist pantry thing for the spinzall. But Garrett Richard, you know, Tropical Standard book just came out. He's gonna come on the radio show with Ben later, you know, because the book came out again.
+
+[27:02] This new technique for clarifying starches is ridiculous. I made a mule, I made a you know, a Moscow mule. Uh Skyvodka sent me a bunch of vodka. I did a Moscow mule with it with a spinzole. And it if it is kind of a life-changing mule.
+
+[27:19] I handed it to uh, I mean, Dax is now 21. Took it because he was filming it. He took a sip, he's like, oh, this is delicious. This doesn't even taste like there's alcohol in it. I'm like, well, you shouldn't say that.
+
+[27:31] You should say that it still has body and structure, and so you can taste the base spirit. That's what you should say. But the ginger is so pure. So pure. And you can make it without a juicer.
+
+[27:42] I did it with ginger juice that I juiced, and I did it with you just a blender. And they both work. Uh, and you'll get the video soon enough, people, especially if you're on the Patreon. Uh, but no, actually, that one I have to put up because it's for you can, whatever. It's a good technique.
+
+[27:57] Use magnesium carbonate. Magnesium carbonate, I ordered, did I already say this in the air? I ordered two pounds of it. And the bag it came in, I thought two pounds would be like something reasonable. And the bag that it came in, like, there's no place in my house that the bag can fit because it's so fluffy.
+
+[28:12] It's like so freaking fluffy. And so it looks like you're adding a ridiculous amount of magnesium carbonate to your product when you're clarifying it. And but like it all disappears. It just goes away. You know what I mean?
+
+[28:24] You're adding quite actually quite a bit, 2% anyway, but like uh it all settles out. It's not soluble. So it's not something that ends up in your product. It's literally acting just like a blanket that just like pushes all of the starch down with it as it goes, and then you know, you chuck it when you're when you're done. But it is a great technique.
+
+[28:41] I'll tell you this, which because for the video probably won't have time. When you're clarifying with magnesium carbonate, you want to add it, stir it up, and stir it a couple of times, and right before you spin it or do the final settle, make sure that it's looking like it's going clear, stir it up one more time so that it can capture absolutely everything and go down. You don't need to blend it. You just literally stir it in and it's good to go. Alexander Talkard, back to you.
+
+[29:05] Um I have some questions about he has some questions about superjuice. Uh, first off, what is your opinion of superjuice? What's your opinion of super juice, John? Like drinking pomegranate juice with blueberries in it, like that kind of super juice? No, no, that's super foods.
+
+[29:21] Oh. So what's super juice? Ah, well, we'll get in. Super juice. Superjuice, what they do is is they they take they take like peel and they make an oleo, right?
+
+[29:33] Then they add some juice and then a bunch of acid, and then oliosacrum. They make an oleo directly with acid powder, not sugar. Well, it's all the same. It doesn't matter to me. Like, in other words, that's a mechanical thing.
+
+[29:48] But in other words, there's sugar, no, there's not sugar. Right. There's there's acid and then there's water and juice and peel. Acid water, juice, and peel. Acid water, juice and peel, juice and peel, right?
+
+[29:59] So uh that's what uh, you know, that's what's in it. So uh Quinn, good clarification because right, you're not crushing it with sugar, you're crushing it with acid. By the way, everyone thinks that sugar is magic. It's literally a mechanical operation. When you're making an oleosacrum, you're smashing a granular thing into peel to break the peel and release the oil, which then gets wicked into the granular item.
+
+[30:25] It's not some magic property that sugar has per se, or that acid has per se. Uh okay, so let's finish the question here. What well, first off, what's my opinion of superjuice? Here's my opinion. Um, to the extent that you are stretching juice.
+
+[30:46] I don't look, I'm not trying to yuck anyone's yum. I'm just saying that in a shake and cocktail, water plus acid provides no texture. In order to have texture in a shaking cocktail, you need actual juice. So to the extent that there is less juice in superjuice, it is going to provide less of a good texture in a shake and cocktail. That's less and less important.
+
+[31:08] The worse you are at shaking cocktails, or the longer you're gonna wait to drink a shaking cocktail after it's made. But for you could also add a bodying agent to it, right? You could add some, you know, proteins or whatever to it and make it froth as well as a normal citrus does. But so that that that's one thing. Two, there's the claim that superjuice lasts longer.
+
+[31:26] Well, to the extent that it has less juice in it to go bad, then it lasts longer because there's less of that poison detergent taste that you get from old juice when the majority of the acid is actually just from acid. So there's that. Lastly, the peel covers up some of those uh kind of old juice, which is why oleo, whether it's made with sugar or whether it's made with uh not it's not sacrum, oleo acid acidum. What do you think? Oleoacidum with a quin?
+
+[31:56] Uh they call it ole oleo citrate. Why? You don't have to use it's not a citrate, citric acid. They're not using sodium citrate. That's a terrible name.
+
+[32:04] Whoever's calling it that, stop. Because you can use other acids, and the actual component of the acid is completely unimportant. Please stop calling it citrate. You're gonna cause another problem where, like, you know, Ferran's people called mono and diglycerides gliss, and then everyone thought glycerin and mono and diglycerides were the same thing, which they are not. So don't name things, the things that are patently incorrect.
+
+[32:29] You know what I'm saying, Quinn? Yeah. Yeah. So uh yeah, acid. Yeah.
+
+[32:36] Oleo acid. There you go. Anyway, so uh the peel notes also cover up the detergent notes of over the hill fresh lime juice. Okay. So all of those things make something that's gonna last longer.
+
+[32:51] If you like it better, if you actually like the taste of it better, then as they say in the trade, God bless, right? But I don't uh, you know, I I think that you could build a drink where that drink wants to be made with that, as opposed to with regular juice. Um, you know, uh it's not what I use. Is this am I being fair? Yeah.
+
+[33:16] Yeah. Quince. I've read some pretty good ones. But what good for what? I made a pollen lemon acid.
+
+[33:26] That was pretty yummy. Well, why not just use lemon juice and pollen? I don't know. What kind of pollen? Fennel pollen?
+
+[33:32] Well, I've just I think uh bee pollen, like regular. Why don't I just add pollen to why not add bee pollen to lemon juice? Well, I think one, you get an actual. I mean, you know, with the super juice, I would say it's really just a different product. Because with a citrus juice, you're getting the acidity, you're getting the flavor of the juice, but you're not really getting the flavor with a peel.
+
+[34:02] With the super, but you but you're really getting that like my problem isn't the flavor of the peel. And by the way, it's called squeeze a peel into that thing. That's what we call that in, you know, we we do that all the time. We make a drink, we go Sheboygan, and we put oil on the top of the drink, and there you go. Peel.
+
+[34:22] You know what I mean? But you you could you don't have to use water and acid to do it. You could use a neutral powder. Yeah, yeah. You could do anything.
+
+[34:31] Yeah, I'm saying it's it's a good thing. I mean, getting the flavor of the peel in is one thing. My main problem isn't that somebody wants peel in their drink. You know, people who like lemon cello, they they're sucking on peels. You know what I mean?
+
+[34:43] Like they are peel suckers. But like uh, you know, I'm saying that my issue with it is they that you're lowering the amount of juice that's being used in it. I don't necessarily think for a valid reason other than cost savings. And I my guess is that the product would be better if it had more juice, and the idea that it lasts longer to me means that there's less juice in it. I but I'm not saying it's bad.
+
+[35:13] If I want lemon juice, I could take pollen, add it to lemon juice. I could get peel flavor into that without having to do an acid adjust on it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I guess. It just it's very, you know, convenient to make a batch of that, and then you have a very highly flavorful acid.
+
+[35:34] I mean, for cooking or for cocktails? For cocktails. Okay. Well, I mean, like, a lot of times when you do things, what I don't like is here's uh here's the other thing. What I don't want is are you familiar with the law of incremental crappiness?
+
+[35:51] Uh no, but I can deduce it. Yeah. So what happens is is you're like, oh, here's the drink, like I make it. Now I'm gonna do something that's slightly crappier, right? And by that I mean I'm cutting a corner.
+
+[36:05] And I can't tell the difference between A and B. So now I start doing B. Now I have B. And I think it's as good as A. And then I make that slightly crappier, and now I have C, which I can't tell the difference between B and C.
+
+[36:19] Then I have C, and then I make it slightly crappier, and on down the line. And by the time you get to like G, if you ever go back and make A, you're like, oh, right, right, right, yes, right. And so, like things that are incrementally more crappy from a cut cost cutting standpoint. If you're doing it because you think it tastes better, then please do it. If you're doing it to cut a corner, and that's fine as long as you're aware of incremental crappiness because that's how sour mix happened.
+
+[36:52] Right? That's how bars ended up using sour mix. Also, it's also supposed to be to reduce waste. Yeah, but what are you wasting? Well, the rest of the lemon, I guess.
+
+[37:06] Oh, I'm saying you can use the peels. I use peels. You can make bitters with them, you can do a bunch of things. Yeah, but yeah, but again, can every bar always use all of their juice and all of their peel? I mean, my bar definitely can't use that much super juice because I'm not shaking a cocktail with that thing.
+
+[37:26] You know what I mean? Like I want fresh tasting, fresh, fresh, fresh, fresh, fresh. If I want peel, I want peel. I used to save up the whole things and make bitters with them, but you know, I the amount of money people spend on a cocktail is unconscionable. So the idea that I'm gonna save incremental money off of the lemon juice and give someone a product that I think is not inherently superior to me seems unethical.
+
+[37:55] That's me though. I think people do think it's superior or equivalent. If they think it's superior, like I say, if you think it's superior, if you have actually had a side-by-side drink shaken and you're like, I would take this one every day, then do it. But if you make a super juice with peel and then an actual juice and add peel to it, if peel is what you want, I'm pretty sure you're gonna find the actual juices better. That's all.
+
+[38:24] And also, uh, you know, a lot of them are kind of like all over the map with the amount of acid they're using, and so I don't actually, know what the acidity is. So what they could be saying is they actually want less liquid in. There's all sorts of problems with it. Um but again, I'm old. I don't want to yuck anyone's yum either.
+
+[38:40] You know what I mean? But uh do the side-by-side taste tests. And if you actually think, do a triangle test. If you actually think it's better, great. But you know, there are ways to do things that aren't about saving money when you're charging someone a lot.
+
+[38:55] At home, do whatever you like. I'm saying professionally, if you are giving someone a less expensive product because it's less expensive rather than because it is better. And you are charging them the same amount. I have an issue. That's all.
+
+[39:15] I don't want to rip people off, neither do I wish to be ripped off. That's all. Uh, you know, it's like people used to get mad about meat glue because the they thought that what you know you were going to do is just take a bunch of scraps of garbage meat and glue them together into a steak and then serve it like, you know, like an expensive steak. That's unethical. That's not what most people did who use meat glue.
+
+[39:36] But that was the fear of meat glue. And, you know, I think they were right to fear that because to me that's unethical. You know, it turns out it doesn't work because it looks like a freaking quilt. Like when you glue a bunch of stuff together and you send it to someone, it looks like you're sending them a quilt. They're like, this is not a steak.
+
+[39:50] You you think I don't know what a steak looks like? They think I don't know what a steak looks like. Jerks. Anyway. Um, all right.
+
+[39:56] So what's my feelings? I feel we've covered and smothered that. Uh from all I've been able to find online, it should not really be possible to extract oils with acid to begin with. Even more so, if you did, this should not really be soluble in water. It would be an emulsion or a suspension.
+
+[40:08] Uh, in the case of emulsion, we would need emulsifier. Uh is that just present appeals to begin with? Uh, if it's a suspension, it would have separation issues. Yeah, no, it's not, you're you're not dissolving the oil, you're just kind of pulverizing and getting it. And my guess is that it's like uh it's kind of like a suspension, or it's but I don't haven't like analyzed it at all, but I bet you there's some creaming or separation over time.
+
+[40:27] There's really not that much oil. I mean, there's some, right? There's also a lot of w water soluble things in the peel as well that come out. But oil, when you squeeze a peel, oil that comes out does indeed float on the top of your drink. You can see it.
+
+[40:39] You can see it, you can see it come out, and you can see it form a layer on the top of the drink. Um bonus question while making super juice at my current bar, I was told that we had to be careful to keep the lid on the malic acid because it's bad to breathe in the gases. My immediate reaction was, what do you mean? It is not volatile. However, I found that it does kind of burn the nose to smell the top of the canister.
+
+[40:58] Even more so uh once it's uh when it's mixed in with the lime peels, what's going on there? Dust, my friend, dust. Uh my mom always used to get mad at me because I would open containers of tang and put a spoon in it, and I put my face over it because I like to breathe in the tang smoke. You know, like uh, and uh my mom's like, that fine powder is not good for your lungs. And so it's really just an aerosolized powder, is what's going on there.
+
+[41:23] It is not volatile, but malic acid, more so the malic acid that you buy a lot of times is a finer powder than the citric acid is, and so you probably get more malic acid smoke than you do get citric uh acid smoke. You can get larger crystals of either, by the way. Um and I would guess that the larger the crystal is, the better it is in oleoland, because then it's more of a little grain of sand eating into the peel, which is really what's happening when you're when you're making those oleo XYZs. Does that make sense? Yeah.
+
+[41:53] All right. Um that cover and smother that guy? Yeah, I'd say so. All right. Uh from Delicious Pear.
+
+[42:02] Uh, does anyone have by the way? Pears are delicious. Stasia, remember that pear trip we took? Yeah, I do, finally. Yeah, that's good.
+
+[42:13] And we unlike the second time I went when that guy stopped us from eating everything, jerk. Pear liquor we had at uh Skernick? Oh my god. What's that guy's name again? It it went out of my head, but that guy's pear.
+
+[42:26] It I don't know what it is, right? But there are certain pair ODVs where when you taste them, do you know how like uh like some pears have a granularity to the flesh? Like they're yielding but granular. I swear to God, some of these ODVs, you can taste that granularity in your mouth, and I have no idea why. You you're like, you eat it, and there's the sensation that you have that texture in your mouth.
+
+[42:54] I don't get it. I asked the guy, and he was like, I don't care, shut up. But uh, you know what I mean? Pretty much. Shut up exactly.
+
+[43:03] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh I was like, but why should I shut up? This isn't a miracle. Why why isn't why are why are more people not talking about this?
+
+[43:10] Yeah. Uh does anyone have experience uh making floral infusions slash syrups? Syrups. I live near several groves of wild plums. Uh we talked about this a little bit, but uh we missed the season.
+
+[43:24] Yeah, we missed the season. Um the blossoms of which I'd like to turn into a syrup or cordial. I see that some recipes call for steeping the flowers first in just hot water, then adding the sugar over a bain marie. You can say that with fancy accent. Uh yeah.
+
+[43:38] Well, other recipes call for making the simple syrup first and then adding the flowers to infuse. Would you expect a discernible difference between these techniques or are they mostly interchangeable? Yes. The answer is yes. Any infusion, how you do the technique is gonna radically change what's going on.
+
+[43:54] Because uh, likewise, are there other methods for extracting flavor and aroma alcohol that would be worth a shot? Thanks in advance for the feedback. Listen, every infusion technique is different. It's like Rosemary's baby. Every pregnancy is different.
+
+[44:07] You have to be like oh, old movie. A lot of people haven't seen Rosemary's Baby. So like the devil that basically uh who's it who's that? Is that Mia Farrow? Yeah, it's Mia Farrow is having a baby with the devil, but she doesn't know it.
+
+[44:19] And they're in this fancy New York apartment in the Dakotas, which is where John Lennon used to live. And also Peter Tosh. Bad luck for musicians to live in the Dakotas, as it turns out. Real bad luck. Uh, but um anyway, so the apartment next door is where the devil worshippers get to go.
+
+[44:35] And so she doesn't know that she's pregnant with uh Satan's baby. And the OB, her OBGYN, right, she's like, I don't feel right. This doesn't feel like it should feel, because it's Satan is growing inside of her. The antichrist is growing inside of her. And so it turns out that your body doesn't respond well to harboring the antichrist in your room.
+
+[44:53] And what the doctor says is, and I use this all the time, every pregnancy is different. And then just walks out. And she's like, okay. I mean, it was like a long time ago, so people were expected to listen to what their doctors said. Anyway, uh say tangent to stay.
+
+[45:07] Same thing with uh same thing with infusions. Every infusion is different. So the actual uh what I would do is this there are there are different things you should test. A pure alcohol infusion, i.e. like 95%, is gonna pull out uh there are some things that are very non-water, they're sorry, that are very water soluble that are not very alcohol soluble.
+
+[45:29] There are things that are alcohol soluble that aren't very water soluble, right? Then if you pull glycerin, which is another infusion thing that you can use, right? There are things that are uh less soluble in glycerin and more soluble in glycerin. So you can up or lower the different uh items that you're pulling out of anything, flowers included, depending on the actual solvent you're using. And every flower is also different, and you're extracting different things from them.
+
+[45:58] So certain flowers, like tuberos, for instance, are very difficult to do with heat infusions because the heat goes away. So when I wanted the aroma of tuberos, which is like you know, one of the classic lay flowers, we would order, remember, Stas, we would order those lays from Hawaii and they would like overnight ship us lays from Hawaii, and then we would throw them directly into the rotovap. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
+
+[46:21] It was good. Expensive, but good. This is something you want to do with culinary school money and not with your own money. Uh so we would do distillations of those because it's very difficult. In fact, usually things like that are done with enflourage, which is a like a zero heat thing.
+
+[46:36] And the kind of more astringent and nasty things in the tube rose aren't gonna get pulled out by the fat. And then when you remove the rose and then put the alcohol on the fat, only the good stuff comes off, right? So it's a game in a flower to only take those things that you want and to not take those things that you don't want. I read up on plum flowers though, and it looks like they're pretty robust, and you can just make a regular simple syrup with them. But flowers in general are all different.
+
+[47:01] So I used to do, it's linden flower season right now. Lindens have just started blooming here. They make a great uh drink. Next year, I just read a honey locust flowers aren't poisonous. I'm gonna do honey locust flowers.
+
+[47:13] So I would recommend looking and seeing what other people do. If sugar works, um, use it. And if the aromas are heat stable, some things taste better once they've been heated a little bit. Uh, and some things taste much, much worse, and some things taste different. So I'm not giving you any actual advice.
+
+[47:28] I'm just saying I would try a very high proof. I would try a uh alcohol. And if you don't want alcohol, I mean, like I try to keep things kind of cool because typically things like that are changed in a direction. I don't like when they're heated, but whatever. Is that answer this question?
+
+[47:45] Yeah. All right. They could also try a really small batch of like a really simple water distillation hydrosol. I mean, they're very simple if they have distilled well no there's very simple guides for making rose water where you have like a nested, a nested bowl and a pot and then an inverted lid with ice. Yeah, I have seen that kind of distillation.
+
+[48:12] I have never had a hydrosol that I thought was worth spit. I'm saying is that if you've never done a distillation before, I'm sure you can get a hydrosol that's good. But if you've actually had like a roto vap and done like hardcore distillation, when you taste them side by side, it makes you never want to do that other stuff ever again. Maybe rose water might be different because it's extremely delicious, extremely uh sorry, um, not delicious, uh traditional, right? So there might it might be, you know, fine.
+
+[48:39] It might be fine. Um the thing about I'll say about hydrosols is is that a lot of the aromas are extremely fugitive when they're in water. And so uh what we used to do is uh when we had to do water-based distillations at Booker and Dax, because we were following the letter of the law on distillations in our rota vap, we would uh as soon as something was distilled, it would be distilled into high-proof liquor. And that way you're fixing it down. If you don't want to use alcohol, glycerin would be another way to fix those fugitive aromas into a product because hydrosols just don't hold on to their aroma very well.
+
+[49:16] They just don't. That's you know, uh, and they don't necessarily uh extract well uh you know all the time. That's why, you know, you don't have just water-based vanillas. You have glycerin-based vanillas and you have alcohol-based vanillas. And and I think making your own vanilla extract is is a foolishness anyway.
+
+[49:32] Listen, if you it anything that says that your have you ever, I've been to a flavor house, right? David Michael, and they are one of the they one of their specialities is vanilla, right? And so they showed me a giant vat. I went with the museum. Stassi, did you go with us that time, Peter Kim?
+
+[49:53] Did you go with us? Yes, I was there. We see it. Yeah, yeah. I can't remember, I can't remember where everyone is.
+
+[49:59] But so like there's a giant vat of vanilla seeds, like 55 gallon drums full of vanilla seeds, right? And chopped up the the you know, the outside of the husk. And there, and uh Julie Snarski, who was our host, was like, taste it. We're like, what? She gives us a plastic spoon, she goes into this thing, gives us a big scoop of vanilla seeds.
+
+[50:20] Taste it. So I tasted it. You know what it tasted like? Not vanilla. Like nothing.
+
+[50:27] Like nothing. So like those folks them. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Julie was saying that she's like, some people, she hasn't talked like that. She's like, some people, they only like vanilla ice cream if it's got the dots.
+
+[50:45] So we take all of these flavorless dots that are worthless, and we sell them to people to stir back into vanilla ice cream to make people think that someone has scraped a vanilla pod into the ice cream. So anytime oh, such a good call to bring that story up. What? Didn't she say like Hagen Dodd? Oh, yeah.
+
+[51:07] Hagendas, Briars, all of them. There is no such thing as someone sits there with a knife, splitting open a vanilla pod and going shika shicky shika shick it, scraping it down and adding that crap because that's leaving vanilla on the table. The pod that you're throwing away has flavor. It is sapid, as we say in the trade. So they extract all the flavor and then sell worthless vanilla dots back to people that they can stir into their ice cream to make us all think that somehow someone's been sitting there with a with a with you know their petty knife scraping scraping vanilla pods all day, which is not how it works.
+
+[51:48] So if you think you're gonna make a vanilla extract as good as the professionals, a good luck. Because you ain't you also don't have the sourcing. You just don't have the sourcing. Uh all right. Uh Monty Zukowski wants to hear Quinn's review of the creamy.
+
+[52:06] But here's the thing. Oh. What's your review? I mean, like, how why would you frame the review of the creamy? What I would say is maybe let's put a pin in that till next week.
+
+[52:19] Because we are recording at a different time. Yeah. And then maybe we'll have a maybe we'll have a lack of questions. All right. So we could circle back to that review.
+
+[52:32] So if you love it, put a pin in it. Remember that song? If you love it, put a pin in it. Remember that? It's a good song.
+
+[52:37] No, you put a ring on it. Oh, same thing. Uh Christian Sacco writes in Quinn mentioned getting Macienda products in Vancouver. I tried to get some not long ago, but they don't ship to Canada. Does Quinn have a special connection, some sort of special mojo?
+
+[52:51] Or does he know a Canadian distributor or a way to get Macienda? Are you one of those freight forward people? Are you a freight forward person? Yeah, yeah, no. The secret, uh, Christian, is paying through the nose for a mail forwarder.
+
+[53:04] Yeah. How much, okay. So just so people know, how much does a mail forward it cost? Like, like uh, how does it work? I mean, yeah, you pay a small amount to like jewelry.
+
+[53:15] You pay a small amount for every package, and then you just gotta pay whatever the shipping is. But in other words, like it is. Is it is it like the same is it cost as much to ship from the forwarder as it does to ship from the original person? Like in other words, are you like tripling the shipping price or what? Yeah, basically doubling it, at least.
+
+[53:36] Okay. All right. But it's a way to get things. In your full, you can feel better whenever the primary shipper or the primary uh merchant offers free domestic shipping. Okay.
+
+[53:54] So you're you're only paying once. Yeah. And then you just have to sign up with a fake account. You're paying for both. You're paying for both because Reb You only see the one.
+
+[54:05] Right, you only see the one. Yeah, all right. Uh from Bright. What? What'd you say?
+
+[54:10] It feels better. Oh, yeah. Well, it's all about feeling. You know what I mean? So many things are all just about signaling just to yourself.
+
+[54:17] Not all signaling is to the outside world, Quinn. Some of it's just to yourself. Um Bryce Wright saying, question. Uh, and I I apologize, uh, Bryce, I did not read the uh article that you uh linked to because I am a low quality individual. Uh Kenji has a Neapolitan pizza dough recipe that starts with an eight to twelve hour room temperature rise.
+
+[54:41] Would there be any damage if I forget about it and don't ball it up uh and don't ball it up and refrigerate it until the 16 or 18 hour mark? No. Uh would there be any flavor or texture degradation? No. Um, and then um a link to the thing.
+
+[54:55] Here's the thing. You know, bread is look, there are a billion ways to slight to make to do bread. There is no such thing as the right answer with uh bread. There really isn't. Um there really isn't.
+
+[55:07] There really is not. Like everyone is all hyped up, oh, the best bit, but like, especially on uh, and I know like look, I get in my brother Wiley, my brother-in-law Wiley, right? He's got stretch, and people get all bent about being hyper specific. And when you're doing it every day, you need to be incredibly on point. You need it's a real game of golf or both pick your repetitive needs to do the same way every time because it needs to be the same all the time.
+
+[55:33] It needs to act the way the same way all the time. But the difference between uh letting it rise for an extra four hours off of a 12 hour thing. Uh if it overrises and falls, it's gonna rise again anyway uh when you do it. And really, what you're worried about is dough exhaustion. And I don't think that you're gonna exhaust the dough because of that extra section of rise.
+
+[55:58] And if you were really, really worried about it, right? Uh using a refrigerator to refrigerate dough, right, is incredibly imprecise. It takes a long time for the center of a ball of dough to go from room temp from ferment temperature down to refrigeration temperature. So really, you should be specifying in any recipe the thickness of the dough ball and how you're getting heat transfer to it. So I was talking to Wiley about how he does his uh his dough retardation in the free.
+
+[56:28] And so like he has a very specific stacking pattern. So like the things are in the same thing, they're open to the air of the fridge for a certain length of time. The humidity is kept where it is, so that he can have a repeatable cool down period. So unless you're doing that, I think a couple hours plus or minus on your initial rise ain't gonna make uh uh any difference. What do you think, uh John?
+
+[56:47] Yeah. All right. Fuck Jack, here's a math question. I'm building a chocolate tempering setup by cutting a hole in the lid of a polycarbonate bin and putting a hotel pan in that hole, and then filling the bin with water and using a Nova circulator to heat the water in the pan. I'd like to get two pans going so I can do two chocolate types at once, which means a bigger pan.
+
+[57:01] How much cubic water can I heat with one ANOVA circulator or with two? I forget exactly what number of liters, but it's uh I wouldn't go much above like uh 24, 24 liters of water all day. That should be fine. You also like obviously don't want to get water in the chocolate, so be extremely careful about uh spillage. You can build like a uh a jacket that like pumps inside of the jacket so that nothing gets up, but it's a little more, it's a little more difficult.
+
+[57:27] Uh in reality, especially the lower the temperature, which chalk is very low temperature, the more water you can do. So that 20 something liters is to heat up hot. I can I have done whole Lexans, whole full size, how big's a Lexan, John? You remember the dimensions? I don't, but you know, the full food box lexans, you can get one of those well up easily up to temp uh temp chocolate temperature thing.
+
+[57:47] The issue is is that the more liquid you have and the less insulated it is, the more drift you get. So you're gonna get one or two degrees over it. The less water you have, the more precise you can be, and the less drift you're gonna have. Does that make sense? Mm-hmm.
+
+[57:58] All right. Ken Ingber wants to know does mixing Vermouth with 80 proof plus spirits extend the shelf life of Vermouth by itself? Or is it only mostly oxidation that is a problem? And does pre-mixing do much for that? Um, it it will extend the life somewhat.
+
+[58:11] People used to store uh, you know, Manhattan's not diluted Manhattans. Once it's diluted, it's not protected anymore. But I would guess you would get uh some extension in shelf life. But it does change over time. That's why people used to age uh bottled but undiluted cocktails to get the change.
+
+[58:28] And I can get to the rest of your uh oh, Ken, I'm gonna do I'm gonna come back to you our next no tangent uh whenever we're recording it. Next time we record next week on I'm in Rochester next week, people. That's why I will not be here. I'll be at the Rochester Cocktail uh Classic. Yeah, Rochestering it up.
+
+[58:44] Eating hot dogs, cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, the host of Cooking Issues coming to you alive in the heart of Rockefeller Center in New York City. Joined as usual for our one hundredth episode at Newstand Studios. Got John in the booth here. How you doing?
+
+[0:25] Good night, yeah. One hundred episodes. Anyway. Um got uh Joe Hazen rocking the panels here. How you doing?
+
+[0:37] I'm doing great, man. How are you? All right, doing well. Uh Nastasia, I believe is in Los Angeles. Yep.
+
+[0:45] All right, nice, nice. How's it over there? I'm sure it's not as uh terrible as it is here. The part of Los Angeles will be played by New York this week. Yeah, how's it how's it going?
+
+[0:56] Uh yeah, how's that? How's it there? Oh, uh yeah, it was uh uh terrible, like horrible. So I was in Rochester, which I'll you know talk about in a in a minute, but uh I was like, oh, this fire that's I can't believe this fire that's like a hundred miles away, 150 miles away is causing all these problems here in Rochester. I get on a train, it's just as bad, if not worse, in New York City.
+
+[1:18] It's crazy. Not really. Yeah. I mean, it was we could smell it a day earlier than you guys could. Yeah, I believe that.
+
+[1:24] But yeah, I mean, like uh bad here. Oh, like real bad. Yeah. Oh, like super bad. Yeah.
+
+[1:30] Yeah. Yeah. The only, you know, like people who were rich enough during the pandemic and like uh, and what's it, what's the word? Um, worried about it enough who all got air purifiers, they were doing a little better if they hunkered down inside, but you could smell that stuff inside because it's very tiny particles that made it down here. Real nightmare.
+
+[1:49] Yeah. Real bad. Uh yeah. Any of you guys uh who are listening who aren't from uh this side of the country or any this country at all, just look at any Instagram people from New York City or New York area in the past couple of days, and that those are not filters. That is real.
+
+[2:05] In the morning in Rochester on uh whatever it was, uh Wednesday, when I came back up, I could stare directly at the sun. That couldn't even see the sun. Yeah, I mean, well, like it was so bad. It would it, I was like, is that a bright orange moon? I'm like, no, I'm staring directly at the sun.
+
+[2:24] And it was nuts. Yeah. I have to say, I don't think our masks are doing jack diddly do for that. No. Unless you have uh N95 or whatever.
+
+[2:34] I don't think it's I don't even know. Yeah, I mean, like, you need something that basically filters out 2.5 micron and smaller particles to like have it make much of a difference. So the people who are walking around with organic vapor respirators, those people, you know, yeah, you know, they look like they're about to murder you, but they know it's not wrong, yeah. They're not wrong either. They're not wrong either.
+
+[2:53] And as many people pointed out, the one time it actually smelled better being on the subway than it did being out of the street. Although I have to say, for the first couple of hours, you're like, hmm, campfire. Yeah. Yeah. And it starts stinging the nostrils and the eyes.
+
+[3:10] Yeah, and you just feel kind of sick. Anyway, uh, enough about that. Uh, where are you, Jack? What uh what what's what coast are you on? Oh, Jack's right here.
+
+[3:20] Oh, no, Jack. I thought I heard him before. And Quinn, of course, chilling up in the upper, upper left, left, where the air is nice. Anyway. Well, we have maybe a little bit of smoke occasionally, but not too bad.
+
+[3:34] Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, I'm wonder I how many trees have to burn for this huge of a thing to like uh to happen? I just have no concept because we're not no one is talking about the fires at all here. Nobody cares about the fire. No one's like, oh my god, all these forests are gone, right?
+
+[3:51] They're like, they're like, oh yeah, it sucks here. Anyway, that's that's classic New York for you, though, right? Yeah. Yeah. All right.
+
+[3:59] Um, so uh what interesting has happened in the uh in the past week uh with with you guys. This is uh, by the way, our hundredth episode. It's a all tangent Tuesday, even though it's Friday, and we're not supposed to have any tangents. Yeah, yeah. Classic, classic Dave.
+
+[4:14] Um, so what do we got? What do we got? John, what do you got? I know for a fact, John, and this dovetails with one of the questions. So we can do your little, we can do some Mishi Gosh with you and with one of our questions.
+
+[4:25] Okay. And you can bring up other stuff too, huh? Yeah, yeah. What are you what are you trying to remind me of? Well, a couple weeks ago, and we didn't get a chance to talk about it because uh we had a guest.
+
+[4:33] Yeah, yeah. You finally got some quality time with the Kalamazoo grill. Now, for those of you that don't know, the Kalamazoo grill is a grill that costs more than a car. And not a bad car. Like costs more than like a moderately priced car, right?
+
+[4:49] Smaller than a car, lighter than a car, uh, made of stainless, and it's it's so fan dancy, right? It's made in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Yeah, yeah. Uh, it's so fan-dancy that uh the people what make it sign the inside of each and every grill. So if you open up the inside, it's signed like a yearbook.
+
+[5:07] Yeah. Because that's you know, your grill. They want you to know they made you this grill. And I've wondered for a long, long time, I mean, what the hell? Like, how much I forget what it was.
+
+[5:18] Is it like 15 or 20 grand a scroll? It's crazy. Something like that, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because it was the big one.
+
+[5:22] It wasn't like it. Oh, separate question. Would you rather have the best of the lesser brand or the worst of the best brand? Oh. So in old school cars, since we're talking about grills made in Michigan, would you rather have the best Chrysler or the worst Cadillac?
+
+[5:42] I'd rather have the best Chrysler. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[5:46] I mean, I guess it's not always the same, but you know, it depends on the actual thing. But I definitely some of those old Chryslers are sick. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[5:54] Yeah. I don't know. You know what I mean? Yeah. What about you guys over there?
+
+[5:57] Are you are you worst of the best or best of the worst? Not worse, but best of the lesser. What do you guys think? Best of the worst. Best of the worst.
+
+[6:06] Yeah, yeah. Hey, that should be our new motto. We're the best. Yeah. Of the not as the best.
+
+[6:13] Right? I'd be good. Yeah. Anyway. All right.
+
+[6:15] So talk to me about this grill. It was pretty great. The one of the like back infra red heat things wasn't working super well. The gas connection was a little loose, but the rest of it, I mean, was just ripping it. We did the rabbits on like the rotisserie spit that it has.
+
+[6:30] And it was you would just the machine on the spit was fantastic. No, like shabump, shabump, shabump. If I was rich, I would pay just not to have the shabump shabump. For those of you that don't know, what I'm talking about is this. Where like the there's play in the gears on your autissery motor.
+
+[6:54] And so that as it because no one no one is good enough at balancing a spit, right? Unless you have almost nothing on it. Nobody is good enough at balancing a spit such that there's not uh an imbalance on it. And when these crappy gears with back slop are used, right? They um as they go over the imbalance point, they slip and fall against their backlash and then get hauled around and back up.
+
+[7:19] So it it it f does two things. One, it makes a little area that goes faster, which just bothers me. I don't know that it actually makes it cook worse, but invariably, especially if things are heavy, it shakes the thing off of the skewer over time. So especially with things like pigs, chickens, uh, you know, it's just like the i it's internally shredding the meat for no apparent reason. It just needs to be built better.
+
+[7:43] And by the way, we're not talking about like a hundred dollar fix. We're talking about literally like like a five dollar difference in gearbox technology at that scale, right? At that manufacturing scale, would make them so that they work and nobody gives a crap. Well, I'm glad the calamus, but you know, you're paying an extra you know, how much is a really good grill cost? Five grand?
+
+[8:03] Probably. Yeah. Yeah. So you're paying three times as much as an already absurdly priced item. Yeah.
+
+[8:08] Which is, you know, not unsubstantial. No, no, definitely not. Yeah. Yeah. Um but a joy to use, you're saying.
+
+[8:13] Yeah. I mean, the heat coming off that thing was just like we started off with gas and everything was really, you know, just to like get the heat up of everything was really even. Um, then threw some wood in there and everything just got really, really hot. And it was it was just really great. How many how many uh how many rote skewer?
+
+[8:30] First of all, is the rotisserie vertical or do you have to do it over the horizontal thing? Is it a vertical back rotisserie like old school style, like the rotisserie units in back? The the flame. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[8:40] Right. They have in inherently superior. Yeah. Yeah. Um for i because it's much easier to uh to control than I think then on like the underfired rotisserie is not nearly as easy to kind of in my opinion work with as uh as the backfired one.
+
+[8:55] No, agreed. I just put some wood down there so like that when the juices would drip off, it would kind of like create a little bit of that. So uh then can you move the forward backward position of it, or do you have to just d increase and decrease the increase and decrease and uh is there multiple vertical areas or is it one spit straight across? One spit straight across. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[9:16] But you could put four rabbits on there was pretty so it's long. Yeah or small rabbits. Yeah, yeah. No, long, long rabbit. Oh no, no.
+
+[9:24] All right, now rabbits. What'd you do to the rabbits? Nothing uh super exciting. I sort of played second fiddle on that. So it's just like salt and rosemary and pepper.
+
+[9:34] Oh, I mean on the rabbit second fiddle on the rabbits. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So how much did you have to bite your lip when the the we were like, not like that, not like that? Basically.
+
+[9:43] No, don't do that. Yeah. Legs in or legs out. I think they were in. Yeah.
+
+[9:51] Yeah. So that they could fit four on it. Yeah, exactly. And did the part underneath the leg not get cooked properly? Or was it okay?
+
+[9:57] It was okay. How dry was the uh was the uh the like loiny part of it? Pretty dry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, rabbits tough, man.
+
+[10:05] It is. And it wasn't like pre-brine forever or whatever. No. Rabbit's tough. Yeah.
+
+[10:11] Um, yeah, I know I've I don't cook as much rabbit as I would like to, considering how much I like rabbit to eat, because you know, I'm uh I I cook for mostly non-tiny bone lovers. Yeah. And I'm not about boning out rabbit. Yeah, no. No, I'm definitely not.
+
+[10:30] That's not, you know. No. But it was nice. I haven't had rabbit in a long time. Yeah.
+
+[10:35] So it was good. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Glad I glad I ate it. Yeah.
+
+[10:38] Yeah. Yeah. All right. Do it again. Yeah.
+
+[10:40] All right. Cream, I know uh, how are you on rabbit? What's your rabbit philosophy? Yeah, no, I don't think I've had rabbit in like at least 10 years. Yeah.
+
+[10:52] Just doesn't come up often. Which is funny, because the island is full of them. Really? Vancouver Island is like rabbit land. Like the specifically the university.
+
+[11:06] The university campus is just chalk a block with rabbits. Well, send someone out to go get those things. Although I don't know, like I can't say I've never had a wild rabbit. You never had to. I mean, why?
+
+[11:18] They're protected? Canada is all of a sudden like pro thumper. All right. Yeah, whenever whenever uh, you know, when I was young, everyone was like, You gonna eat thumper? You're gonna eat Bambi.
+
+[11:30] I'm like, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, you like watching Babe? Oh, I love pig. Yeah, exactly.
+
+[11:37] Doesn't it? I don't remember, I never forget. There was a time when I was gonna get there's a time when miniature potbellied pigs were the rage, right? They were huge. Like they were a thing.
+
+[11:49] Yeah. I was gonna go say that. They were a thing. And so, you know, I kind of wanted one, right? Because who didn't want one?
+
+[11:55] I was living in a loft. I was like, I can have a pig here if messes happen, messes happen, I'm in a loft, it doesn't matter. And uh, so you know, I hadn't yet spoken to Jen about it because she would have been like, what are you stupid? You know what I mean? But uh so I called up a a breeder of miniature potbellied pigs, and I was like, You got serious.
+
+[12:17] Eh. Well, you know, whatever. Hey, whatever. Uh I wasn't late on a book then, so it wasn't like as you know, it wasn't as much of a problem. Um I said, uh, she's like, yeah, they're great, just like dogs.
+
+[12:29] You know, they're amazing. They're so smart and so I was like, oh, great. So now that you do this, do you still eat bacon? She's like, oh yeah. Oh yeah.
+
+[12:39] And I was like, whoa, that's like that's like hardcore. Yeah. Do you guys think that if you were keeping pigs as actual pets that you could go ahead and like, you know, pound the pound the bacon? I don't think I could. Just wouldn't taste as good to me.
+
+[12:55] I'd like to think I could. I don't think I could. Like I don't I wouldn't like go out and like order and purposefully tuck into like a whole bunch of dog. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[13:07] I'm not opposed to people eating it. Yeah. Because that would be uh illogical of me. Yeah. But uh I don't think I would.
+
+[13:18] And in retrospect, you know, you're like, oh. Yeah, right. Yeah. I was at somebody's house, so I had to keep eating it. But yeah.
+
+[13:26] Yeah. Yeah. All right. Don't want to be rude. Nice.
+
+[13:30] Yeah. Don't want to be rude. All right. So uh we had a grill question. Should I go back to grill question before we go back to shooting the breeze?
+
+[13:37] All right. Since uh Quinn will murder me if I don't uh if I don't get to the uh questions here. Um Henbats writes in anyone have experience cooking with an infrared grill. If so, what's the good, the bad, and the ugly? Well, you know, John just told you the ugly is the connector might not hook up.
+
+[13:54] Apparently their customer service is really great if they have any if you have any issue with the grill, they'll just automatically send you under replacement part, or if there's an updated component to it, they'll automatically send you that free of charge. They had better. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, hey, that's Booker and Dax quality style customer service. Oh yeah.
+
+[14:11] Yeah. Speaking of grey machines. Yeah. People can still order their spinzel 2.0. Yeah.
+
+[14:14] Yeah. And but and by the way, uh, so right now, I think we uh we already told you guys. So for those of you that I don't know that somehow landed at this show and have no idea what the hell's going on. First of all, let me apologize. And secondly, uh, you know, we make these centrifuges.
+
+[14:36] Uh well, we made these centrifuges and we're making them again. Thanks to the very fine community uh who pre-ordered enough to get the order going, we're gonna make more. And so the centrifuge kind of helps you clarify, but the new version is so much better than the old version. And in fact, I took it to Rochester for the Rochester cocktail revival where I was doing a demo on uh clarification, and uh Amon Rocky was there. He did Agar clarification the right before and and milk washing.
+
+[15:05] So I was like, well, to piggyback on what Aamon is doing, I like to show you how real people clarify things with the centrifuge. And so, like, uh, not that you're not real if you don't have a centrifuge. I'm not saying you're not real, you're still, as Quinn would put it, a real boy, you know, or a real whatever. Quinn quint for years Quinn didn't have a uh like an actual hard phone, right, Quinn? So can I tell the story or not?
+
+[15:27] Yeah, so Quinn's Quinn. Yeah, so Quinn finally gets a phone because Nastasi and I are like, we can't send you images on text. What the hell? Right? So we finally he got one, and he literally just sends me a text that says, I'm a real boy now.
+
+[15:42] I was like, strong, strong. So strong. Anyway, uh, are you liking your phone by the way? Uh I mean, you know, it exists. Oh, all right.
+
+[15:56] Unlike unlike existing conditions, which no longer exists, zing. Uh yeah. Yeah. Um anywho, so I was spinning and we got crushed for time, and all of my spins I was doing like three minutes on the spins. So they spin faster, and the interlock works really well, and I can open it.
+
+[16:14] So I'm really psyched. And it's gonna get maybe even better because um the factory is sending me a test board where I get to mess with all the parameters. So I'm gonna see how fast I can make it go before it goes vibration crazy. And I'm also gonna see how fast I can decelerate it without ruining the clarification technique. I'm just trying to get the the G forces as high as I can with the unit and the um and the and the spin times as short as possible.
+
+[16:42] So and I'm you know gonna probably increase the pump speed on it. So I'll be I'll be able for the first time be able to like modify all of those things myself and just tell them what the answer is. But even the st the one that they did, the stock base one, is already better than the original. So I'm I mean, everything about it's gonna be better. Even all the parts are gonna be easier to replace if things go down.
+
+[17:01] Yeah. Parts are gonna be much harder to break down because everything else has been so much better designed. I mean, it's just gonna be a much, much better product. Yeah, the only negative that I yeah, what Quinn. Okay, where can they go?
+
+[17:13] Oh to pre-order. You are dot cool forward slash spinzel, proving that we are not in fact cool. You are the letter U, the letter R dot cool slash spins all. Or Booker and Dex.com. If you if if you were if your fingers won't type UR.cool forward slash spinzall, if somehow like, you know, you have a mental block on on typing those letters, you can just go to Booker and Dax.com, right?
+
+[17:45] Yeah. I know Nastasia won't type UR dot cool. I mean, I don't know. I've been typing it. I think it's a cool URL.
+
+[17:54] Oh man. Anyway. So um one more thing about the about the spinzall, new spinzole. Oh well, whatever. Uh, you can still pre-order it until we put our order in with the factory for the actual number of units.
+
+[18:08] We're still accepting pre-sales. So, you know, oh, I know what the problem is. The only thing that I'm really kind of disappointed by, and there's no way around it, is the old parts, the new parts aren't interchangeable with the most with the parts that break most often in the old unit, mainly because the reason we changed them is because they broke a lot in the old unit. And the factory can no longer produce that those things. Like that it doesn't exist anymore.
+
+[18:36] Like the electronics boards don't exist anymore. Lids. Lids are different design. So there unfortunately won't be a way going forward. And first John and then Quinn and Nastasi and I have been stretched to the breaking point trying to fix old spinzalls as best we can, but they are if they are gonna break, they're pretty much unless you can fabricate the parts and we're willing to send you the STLs to do it, like you know, we're not gonna be able to support them going forward too much longer.
+
+[19:10] Would you say that's mean? Yeah, I'm surprised you've still been able to support them, frankly. Well, like literally we go, we rip apart units, and we've been like parasitizing them. We've been selling, not selling, because I don't even think we charge most of the time. We've been sending out uh, you know, like semi used parts because you know, it's like fixing, you know, to go back an old Chrysler.
+
+[19:29] Yeah, you know what I mean? Um anyway, so it is what it is. So back to hen bats. Um experience cooking with infrared grill. What's the good, the bad, and the ugly?
+
+[19:43] Uh, that's a great movie. It's actually my ringtone. Really? Yeah, you're wow. I love that movie.
+
+[19:53] Yeah. Yeah. I used to occasionally scream, blind. You know what? That is a great title in it.
+
+[20:02] In the original, the original Italian is an even better title. Oh, I think I've heard it. What's that? What is it? Il buono.
+
+[20:09] Il brutto, il gativo. Oh, okay. Strong, right? Oh my god. On my honeymoon in 1995 in Rome, I don't know why.
+
+[20:19] I went into a uh like a movie st you know, store where they sold like VCR tapes and whatnot. And uh I saw it for the first time. I was like, oh, that's even better. Leon. Anyway, Leone, I guess.
+
+[20:33] Anyway, uh, okay. Uh, what's the good, the bad, and the ugly? Looked at them years ago when shopping for a grass gas grill and opted for a Weber, presumably the kettle style Weber. When you say you opted for a Weber, unless you say otherwise, I'm assuming you mean kettle style Weber, which is a fine machine. Good grill.
+
+[20:48] You know what else? A lot of people have experience on that thing. Anyone comes over to your house, they know what they're gonna expect. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm.
+
+[20:54] Anyway. Remember the little the Smoky Joe? Who who has not owned a smoky joe? Yeah. Little Smoky joe, especially if you've ever lived in New York and you want to like illegally grill on your fire escape.
+
+[21:07] The Smoky Joe is the is the unit par excellence for illegally illegally grilling on your on your fire escape, which is a time honored, stupid dangerous thing that many New Yorkers do. Yeah. Myself included. What about the little hibachi? I bought one once, but I used it inside and I got it so hot that the paint caught on fire.
+
+[21:29] Now, how hot do you have to get a hibachi grill to catch the paint on fire? It was not cool. My wife was displeased, unpleased. There's a lack of pleasure. I've told the story about how the fire how I got the fire department coming to my place once, right?
+
+[21:46] Have I ever told that story? I don't know. All right. Well, I'll tell you this quick about grills. So I lived in an illegal loft on 38th Street between 8th and 9th on the 20th floor of a 20-story building that was built in 1927.
+
+[21:59] When I moved into this building, there was like one other person living there on the on like the 16th floor. So there's four floors between me and the only other person who was living, and the rest was still sweatshops. It was starting to move over to like photographers and artists and what, but it wasn't. There was a central corridor in these old buildings. They didn't have fire escapes.
+
+[22:18] They had fire stairwells in like the central part of the thing, and you would go down, and because there weren't enough bathrooms in the sweatshops, this I know I've mentioned on air, like people would do their business because you know they're humans and they're working unbelievable shifts, right? So all their business would happen in these fire stairwells. So no one used them because they were bathrooms, literal bathrooms, latrines. But since I was on the top floor, you could punch out and actually be outside at the top of this of the of that kind of little corridor for the fire stair. And it was almost like a little outdoor patio, but totally enclosed.
+
+[22:50] No one could see you anywhere. Like you were totally contained. So I took my uh I bought a full-size, like one of those half-barrel char broilers that were, you know, used to be cheap at the Home Depot and had it out there and was doing charcoal grilling constantly in the garment district in a huge grill, huge. Like I did a medieval feast on it. Like I used to cook like family dinners.
+
+[23:13] I would cook huge amounts of food in this, you know, illegal machine. And then one day they installed a uh an alarm on the fire stairwell because they were starting to, you know, up their security, right? And so I couldn't get back in. And I didn't want to have to knock on the door all the time. So I propped the door open, right?
+
+[23:32] So I could go in and out. But what happened was there was a um, there was a temperature kind of inversion, and so the wind sucked into the building instead of out. They changed, and when it changed, it sucked all of the smoke from the thing into the building itself and set off the detectors because they'd also installed smoke detectors to try to be more current. So everything goes nuts, goes off. The fire department runs up 20 flights of stairs in full gear, shows up, and I have like all this meat on the grill.
+
+[24:08] And they're like, what the hell are you doing? You can't have an open fire. What the hell do you think you're doing? I swear to God, I looked at them and I shrugged, I go, tastes better. And they just walked away.
+
+[24:21] They just walked away. They were probably hating you. But like, I mean, I didn't try to give any excuses. I was like, tastes better than a gas grill. What?
+
+[24:33] You're over there. And it wasn't done yet. And they weren't in the mood. They were in full turnout. They were in full turnout gear.
+
+[24:41] Like, you know, full turnout gear is no joke. You know what I mean? And they just run up 20 tall, like, you know, 10 foot flights of stairs. Oh man. But that was uh Jen made me retire the grill after that.
+
+[24:54] Rightfully so. I'm not saying it's like, oh, Ogre Jen. I mean like rightfully so. I had to retire the grill after that. And you know, uh from then on all family dinners were only deep fried because the fire department did not come into my loft and find my illegal deep fryer.
+
+[25:07] So anyway. Um back to infrared grills. Um the company makes them locally. This is the infrared grills that Henbatz is talking about, and claims to be the inventor. HTTP, everyone claims to be everything.
+
+[25:22] No one invented infrared like the technology. Like I'm sure they invented whatever specific infrared technology they have. You know what else is an infrared uh heating technology? I don't know if you know this. The uh Searsol is an infrared uh heating technology whereby we take the optically thin and hard to use uh heat uh energy from a torch flame and turn it into a much better, easier to use, more effective infrared heat source.
+
+[25:47] Did you know that? I did. You did? I did. Did you know that the Sears all and specifically the Sears All Pro can uh put uh the power of a broiler in the palm of your hand?
+
+[25:57] Were you aware of this? I think I've heard it somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[26:01] Hey, Quinn, when are those uh uh are those on the water yet or soon? TV D. I still need to get one. Yeah. Well, shame to say we're going to we're gonna have a thousand units to sell as soon as they as soon as we can toss them across the water.
+
+[26:17] Um you know, we've we fulfilled everything, we've left enough time to not have the I hope the uh people who bought the originals get mad at us, and we have 1,000 more that we're gonna throw across the water and see what happens. Um but as Quinn says, TBD. Um techgrills.com, which is TEC grills.com, not with a H, no H in Tech Grills, in case you're trying to look it up. Uh my friend just started working for Tech Grills, but uh at the at his main company, the grills are apparently a small passion project on the side. All right.
+
+[26:48] So the concept of infrared grilling is simple, is that um gas grills waste a lot of heat energy because as I said before, flames are optically thin. And what that means is is that uh you can't get very good radiant heat off of flame, which is why what you really want is uh you want to use those flames to heat up things like lava stones or whatnot. So the original infrared grills are always just ways of converting um a gas or other form of uh you know energy like that into something that is primarily in infrared wavelength, right? So, you know, anything basically things you you can't they don't even necessarily glow. They don't need to glow because once it's glowing, it's not infrared anymore.
+
+[27:35] But the more something is hot, the hotter it is, and once it starts glowing, the vastly more energy is being put out. And the vast majority of uh heat energy that's being put out, even if something that is glowing, is infrared. But uh it's just a much more efficient way to throw heat on meat than trying to either do it by the conduction of getting the flame directly on your product, which can cause problems because it can burn and all this other stuff. So the the more you can just convert the heat energy into infrared that then hits your product. Infrared also has good uh penetration into the surface of your of your of your food.
+
+[28:10] So it's just a better, more efficient way. So that's the shtick. My problem with this particular website is they have a lot of stuff showing like here's our grill, here's us cooking a chicken, and I can't evaluate anything because what I need to see is here is exactly how our grill works. There's no like tech nerd thing on their website where I can just evaluate what the hell is going on. And um, you know, they've been around a long time, so it doesn't make me nervous.
+
+[28:36] Whenever someone has a new technology and they don't have a section that says explicitly how or why something works differently, it makes me very nervous because it means that they can't or that they don't have protection for it. But these guys have been around a long time. So I'd be interested, hen bats, to hear more about uh that. But yes, converting things to infrared is the you know backbone of one of our businesses. It's also, by the way, the reason why uh if you look in an old salamander, I think they still do it.
+
+[29:01] You ever notice in a salamander, there's these little steel bars below the burner, right? So you're looking at they they usually have uh the ceramic burners with little holes in it. And my problem with those and any infrared, because those are called infrared burners too. Any of those infrared burners that are based on that technology is it's very difficult to throttle them because uh all those little holes need a fairly constant gas pressure coming out of them. And so if you've ever used a salamander, like a lot of times, uh, you know, even a little bit of a problem with gas input, and when you throttle them, they tend to flame out.
+
+[29:37] Uh and then when you overdrive them, they just have a lot of flame coming out over the edge, and that doesn't really make them work any faster. John, you've had this happen to you. Yeah. Uh so that's the main problem uh with uh that kind of burners called throttling. There are there are new, they're not I'm sorry, the ceramic burners.
+
+[29:53] There are new foam, new meaning 10 years old foam burners that apparently are much better at throttling than the old ceramics because of the way they work, but I had don't have a lot of experience with them. So that style of infrared sometimes has throttling problems, but uh, you know, infrared based on quartz also kind of works quite well. Um, so you know, anything you can do to put more heat on your food as opposed to throwing it into the atmosphere is probably a good thing, right? Yeah. Infrared, your friend.
+
+[30:21] Yeah. Uh Sargon writes in, what do you think of freeze-dried lime juice? It does not produce a nose, but it seems to make a taste, although I find I have to dry shake with it first. Sargon, what are you doing, man? Sargon, what are you doing?
+
+[30:36] Like, are you trying to make like camp Kool-Aid? Like, what's going on here? Like, why would you pay someone to freeze-dry your lime juice? Unless, because you didn't say I also have a bunch of palkahol. Do they still make palcohol?
+
+[30:50] You know what I'm talking about? That powdered alcohol stuff? No. If the goal here is to be able to bring a packet of cocktail and then like dump it into like grain neutral or something and then shake it, I can see the application here. But I don't know why you would use it just to use it.
+
+[31:09] You have to tell me, uh, you have to tell me why you want to do this. Sorry. Can you think can you guys think of anything? Any reason why, other than camping? Or like space?
+
+[31:22] Okay, but for a drink. I mean, I don't know. What do you mean? Oh, I mean like sprinkling, but he says he's shaking with it. I'm just saying, in terms of an application for the product in general.
+
+[31:36] You mean so I want to throw lime? Yeah, okay, okay, yeah. Here's what you should do with it, Sargon. French fries. Potato chips.
+
+[31:43] Oh, that's a lime marshmallows. Okay. I mean, I don't know. You know what I don't like making? Okay.
+
+[31:50] You know what I hate making? Marshmallows. I just took a dislike to making it. Okay. I like making marshmallows.
+
+[31:57] Okay. That's why, you know, people get to be different. I hate it. There was a time in the in the like kind of early 2000s when every pastry chef was making like five, you know, crap tons of marshmallows, all different flavors and stuff like that. And then, like, you know, I made it a couple of times, and then you get it wrong a couple times and it gets all weepy, and then like, you know, it's all sticky.
+
+[32:20] Oh, no. I don't like making it. But I'm glad that you like making it. You know what I'm saying? Okay, lime marshmallows, but uh, I think like uh, yeah, like some sort of like I guess lime salt, if you don't like like, you know, you don't like uh Tostitos?
+
+[32:36] Lucas, that Lucas spice, do you like that Lucas spice with the duck on it? There's the red Lucas and the and the blue Lucas. I don't know if I'm familiar. Uh that you put on fruit. No.
+
+[32:48] What you mean tahim? No, I mean Lucas. Yeah. I mean Lucas. What I mean.
+
+[32:55] It's got a duck on it, and there's a blue one and there's a red one, and you like put it on fruit, and it's good. Anyway. So you can make your own kind of Lucas mix. What do you think I meant? I meant Lucas.
+
+[33:09] Anyway. Uh what do you think? Did I answer sorry? Sargon might be going to space. He's from California.
+
+[33:15] He knows all those tech people. True. You know what I mean? Yep. Don't go to space, man.
+
+[33:19] Like, who who among this group, given the opportunity, would go to space? Oh, Joe raises his hand. Joe would go to space. Joe would go to space. If you're if we come back like alive, yeah, I would do it.
+
+[33:33] Well, there's no guarantee. That's the point. The point is, are you willing to take the risk? If I was guaranteed to come back alive, I would do it. I mean, how many, how many shuttle missions were there?
+
+[33:46] Like a hundred and something? Yeah, a lot. Yeah. Two of them were catastrophic losses. Mm-hmm.
+
+[33:51] I remember that. Out of like, you know, a hundred with loss of complete loss of crew. So, like, two out of with probably less than 200, right? Probably fewer than 200 missions. So we're talking like, you know, better than a one in a hundred chance of uh not coming back.
+
+[34:09] Don't enjoy. Not for it. Not rolling that die. You know what I mean? If you had a one in a hundred chance of getting on the subway and getting, you know, not coming out of the subway, you wouldn't do it.
+
+[34:26] And I'm saying going to space is not worth it for me for that. Yeah, but it's space. I mean, it's just so I mean, what do you even have to live for? Why is your life so precious? Exactly.
+
+[34:36] Well, you know, that's that that's a good point. Logically, it's not. No one's died on the vomit comet, to my uh knowledge. Therefore, that is inherently safer if you need to be weightless. If the idea is I need to experience weightlessness, just go on the vomit comet.
+
+[34:51] Although I would not want to go on the vomit comet. Paul Adams, friend of the show, Paul Adams, who, by the way, have we discussed this? So uh I forget what it's called, dihydromercetin or whatever it is that Paul used years ago to uh blunt the effects of alcohol on your system. It's a it's a supplement, so you don't need a prescription for it. And he came to uh existing conditions and drank like an unconscionable number amount of cocktail and didn't get like visibly perturbed by it right after he was taking this stuffee.
+
+[35:21] So he wants to come on the show and do a side-by-side with people, like people not knowing who's getting it, who's not, and then like imbibing a certain number of cocktails. And I spoke to Bob Data, who's been on the show, who's you know, the the uh uh the Harvard, you know, scientists who deals with this uh kind of thing, and he said, Yeah, yeah, we could do that kind of a study. So, like, and he was saying actually he might be able to do rat studies where he can actually see if rats are getting drunk or not. He said the main problem with it is that uh rats don't like booze. So you have to like force them to drink the booze to see kind of what happens because they don't like the taste of it.
+
+[36:03] So he says it's it can be difficult doing alcohol studies with rodents, but his machines that track like the computer track rodent behavior, uh, I think are only tuned to rodents, so you know, not people. Yeah, so he can't tell if people are drunk with these machines. Anyway, so but then I was wondering is that an okay thing for us to do as a show? Like on the rats or on people? No, on us.
+
+[36:31] Probably like I'll see why not. All right. I mean, you had a negative reaction to the Rockstar wine show. It would probably be similar. Uh that's true.
+
+[36:41] Wasn't a big fan of that episode, but other people did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh so anyway, back to space. Paul Adams was on the vomit comment, and he says that the he loved it, but like the issue for me is is that you're on it for like an hour and they keep doing it over and over and over and over again.
+
+[36:58] So you can't be like, I did it. I was weightless for 17 seconds. Let's go down now. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[37:05] I don't need to do it over and over and over again. I wouldn't do it for just one 17 second run. I want like, I don't know, get a little money's worth. I mean, okay. Maybe not a whole hour.
+
+[37:16] I'll give you that. But like three or four drops. There's a reason they call it the vomit comet. And can you imagine if someone hurls and then it goes weightless? I do not want to see weightless hurl.
+
+[37:26] I do not want to see that. Um anyway. I'm sure they have precautions for that. Probably. They have to.
+
+[37:34] Yeah. I've heard that one of the things in the uh that if you're a a military pilot that can wash you out is throwing up in your mask one too many times. And you choke on it? I don't know. I don't know.
+
+[37:47] Um, there's no way I could be one of those pilots. There's just no way. Like, I hate roller coasters. I hate sudden physical like application of G forces. Like, no way.
+
+[37:59] Anyway. Uh, not just that I'm not qualified and too old, but like, even when I was young and unqualified, had I been qualified, there's just no way. I don't know. Uh Zev wants to know. I'm gonna answer you right now, Zev.
+
+[38:14] I don't have any idea, but let's talk about it anyway. Any ideas for cooking with the shells from English peas? Uh just got home uh my first couple of pounds of the season from the farmer's market, and the shells are juicy, sweet, and almost, but not quite tender enough to eat raw. The internet suggests blanching and pureeing for a pesto like puree, which seems promising. I don't know that I have a better suggestion.
+
+[38:35] I would yeah, that's what I would do. I mean, uh, oh, you can't. Uh my dad. All right. My dad made a suggestion.
+
+[38:41] All right. We blended it with like a bunch of I think just water and sugar, and then just fermented it all the way to vinegar. And that was interesting. Interesting or good. In my family, interesting means it sucks.
+
+[39:00] Uh the other word in my family that means it sucks. If you ever have my stepfather over to dinner, is tasty. If something is tasty, it sucks. It means it has taste, but he doesn't like it. So, which is interesting or good.
+
+[39:15] We have the same issue in our home too as well. That's interesting. Yeah, right? You don't like it. It means you don't like it.
+
+[39:20] So, Quinn? I used it. Okay, but again, so you're not saying you liked it. You're not saying take your stuff and go through the trouble of making it because it's delicious. What I'm not hearing from you, Quinn is you know what's delicious?
+
+[39:33] Blending it up with sugar and making a vinegar. That's what I'm not hearing from you. It could be. Hmm. All right, Zeph.
+
+[39:44] So, you know, I can't even get Quinn to recommend his own recommendation for you. Blanch and puree. Uh I will say this though. You know what I just recently tried for the first time are the dried marrow fat peas to make the official mushy pee because they're hard to get in the U.S. Oh, yeah.
+
+[40:01] Yeah, so uh marrow fat peas are different from like the little garden peas that we you know normally get frozen or fresh here in the in the U.S. And although I have to say, I really do like just a fresh garden pea also with mint, but not not, you know, butter and butter and mint, chak chuck, chak, chack with a little extra sugar in it. Real good. But uh I actually really like the the marrow fat bee, I believe uh a pee. I believe the companies whose product I had, the dried ones was Biggie, B-I-G-G-I-E.
+
+[40:29] And they serve it, they sell it with a little packet of baking soda or baking some some sort of alkaline thing to keep it real green. It made it a little soapy, but I uh what's it called? I um I uh corrected it at the end. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[40:43] Yeah, busted back the acidity a little bit at the end. You guys like mushy peas, mint in your peas? Yeah. Yeah. Me too.
+
+[40:49] Oh well, I know Joe, uh Joe with the English, uh with the English connection has to like a mushy pee. Yeah, my son loves them too. Really? Oh, loves them. Uh and and he's good with them.
+
+[40:58] There's nothing in them that No, it's great. We make it all the time. With the mint. With the mint. With the mint.
+
+[41:03] I love the mint and the mushy pee. Do you know who doesn't like mint? Miley Carpenter. I was gonna try to get her to come on today from the food network, but she had to be out of town today. She's gonna come on soon.
+
+[41:12] We gotta figure out a time to get to get her on soon. But sh hates mint. I'm I I can say this because she publicly says she hates mint. To the extent that I once made a pie, because I didn't know she was gonna be there. I made a pie with mint in it, right?
+
+[41:25] So it's like, you know, I forget, but it's the equivalent of like key lamb key lime pie but with mint in it, right? Which doesn't sound bad, right? Sounds okay. Right. Here's what she said.
+
+[41:33] No one ate it after what she said. Why'd you make toothpaste pie? I was like, toothpaste pie. I don't know that I would call it toothpaste pie. Then everyone's like, I don't want toothpaste pie.
+
+[41:44] She doesn't like gum either, then, right? I think she likes big red. Cinnamon. Yeah, cinnamon. Do you like a cinnamon gum Joe?
+
+[41:53] Yeah, I like uh I it's not my first go-to. I I don't love cinnamon as a whole. I love like orchata. Yeah. But uh cinnamon for me is not uh, you know, like I can I I can tell when it's in like when it's made with i in the food or a gravy or something like that.
+
+[42:08] And I'm like, oh, there's cinnamon in this. Interesting. I like that. But interesting in a good way. Interesting in a good way, yeah.
+
+[42:13] I uh to me, the flavor of red hots as cinnamon is cum completely divorced from the flavor of cinnamon the baking spice. Like it's a whole different animal for me. Even though I know they come from the same kind of product, it's just wholly different. You know? Agreed.
+
+[42:29] The uh the egg rolls at um what's that Chinese restaurant um in Queens? I can't, I mean no, no, they deliver to our home all the time. I can't remember the name. Something king. Anyways, the the cinnamon in the egg rolls are delicious.
+
+[42:43] Really? Delicious. Nastasia, what are your thoughts on red hots? I I don't know your thoughts, that's why I'm asking. Yeah, I like them.
+
+[42:51] I like I like red fireballs. Oh, fireballs. I haven't had a so okay. I can not talk about never mind. So uh it's not a Nastasia thing, though, but I was specifically told not to talk about it, so I won't.
+
+[43:03] But uh, you know what? I don't okay. Again, admission, I'm a biter. I'm a biter. When it comes to candy, I'm a biter.
+
+[43:13] So like jawbreakers, fireballs, red hots, and the feeling of my teeth slipping over the outer outer coating as I'm trying to bite them too soon. I don't know. I tolerate it, but I don't I don't love that. You know? Are you guys biters or are you suckers?
+
+[43:30] Suckers. Sucker? For those things, yeah. Yeah. It's like those old Tootsie Pop commercial where how many licks does it take to get to a center?
+
+[43:37] One, two. I never made it without biting. Ask owl. That was that's a great commercial. Awesome commercial.
+
+[43:48] Um, all right. So uh Wizmert writes in, I'm developing a okay, Wizmard. I got an issue with the form of your question. So I'm gonna attempt to answer it, but I don't know that I'm gonna be able to. All right?
+
+[43:59] I'm just letting you know ahead of time that I have an issue with the form of the question. It's not necessarily your fault, it's the fault of the world and the internet and how this thing has been posed all the time. All right. I am developing a nitro infused beet kvas, uh lacto fermented beet brine. Was there bread in it or not?
+
+[44:18] I I thought kfos had to have no beet beet or just beet. No, no bread of any kind. No bread. Why do they call it kvas? Okay.
+
+[44:36] Sounds like it's just borscht you left out. I'm just kidding. Uh I'm just kidding. Uh for shop for a shop I'm helping open. I bought the uh EC Nitro and ran a couple of tests.
+
+[44:47] The results were so lackluster, I feel I must be missing some crucial info. And also the best practices for nitro infusion are the uh uh practices the same as for CO2. All right. There is such a confusion of terminology on the term nitro that uh, you know, there I do not blame you for like for anyone for not knowing what's going on, because I don't actually know what's going on when people just say nitro. There are two different gases and there are two different things and two different approaches, right?
+
+[45:20] Nitrogen. So people who say they're doing nitro with nitrogen, right? What that's doing, and I don't know how carbonated your your kvas is, right? But if the kva and and when you say infused, that's the other thing. People say like infused, but the you already have beet juice, right?
+
+[45:40] If your idea is to infuse flavor into the kfos using rapid infusion, you have to use uh nitrous oxide for that. And I don't, you didn't write what flavor, if that's the case, you didn't write what flavor you are infusing into your kfas that isn't just the beets, which presumably it already tastes like beets because you made it from beet juice, right? Okay. So assuming what you mean is putting bubbles into it, right? Um, if you use nitrogen, which is what the new EC nitros are for, nitrogen, right?
+
+[46:15] What those things are doing is they're assuming that your prop that nitrogen is not, I repeat, not very soluble in liquid, right? It's very minimally soluble. So what they do with nitrogen, right, classically in beer gas, with beer gas, which is CO2 plus nitrogen, is you have a relatively low carbonation amount, right? And you put extra nitrogen in so you can A force your product through your lines faster and not increase the carbonation level. That's one thing.
+
+[46:49] But another, the widget in Guinness, which is nitrogen, right? What they're doing there is is that as the pressure is released when the Guinness is dispensed, or when you open the the lid of your of your can with a widget in it, all of that nitrogen that's in there goes poof and makes all these micro bubbles. And those micro bubbles then make a big head of foam because the nitrogen comes almost instantly out of solution. That's how that works, right? So the nitro stuff is a texturizing uh effect that involves it already having its own foaming effect and then making a lot of micro bubbles.
+
+[47:24] So you get that very fine foam. That's what nitrogen is for. So when people are using nitrogen, they're trying to get that rolling Guinness look in it in a cocktail, as all of these very quickly formed, but unless utero product sustains them, very quickly dissipated bubbles. That's what nitrogen does. Nitrous oxide, N2O laughing gas, the whipped cream stuff, is actually soluble and will make bubbles that are much more akin to CO2, but don't have the CO2 flavor, right?
+
+[47:51] So two entirely different things. But nitrous, because it is soluble, makes bigger bubbles and over a longer period of time than does nitrigen. So if your is already carbonated somewhat with CO2 and you use nitrogen, you should be able, and it also has the ability to hold a head like Guinness does. Then you should be able to get that Guinness effect if that's what you're looking for. But I need a little more clarity on exactly it is that you wanted to happen and what didn't happen.
+
+[48:22] Covered smothered? Covered smothered. All right. All right. Uh Ken Ingber writes in, he right, you're right.
+
+[48:30] He wrote in before we didn't get everything. What are the pitfalls of pre mixing of Manhattan or old-fashioned? Uh and does it matter if I'm using a plain or interesting vermouth? Well, of course it matters if you're you. Well, first of all, what's plain vermouth?
+
+[48:41] Ain't no such thing as I think you mean martini and Rossi. Right? I mean, I think I mean, I love tasting different vermouse, but you know, most of the vermouse that you have have a place somewhere. You know what I mean? I don't know.
+
+[48:57] And Martinian Rossi gets a bad rap because it was treated so poorly for so much of our lives, so much of my life anyway. I mean, like most people who are listening to this probably never grew up in the era where there was one bottle of vermouth on the back bar that had been opened for two years and tasted like oxidized peanut waste. You know what I mean? But like those of us who are old enough kind of never gravitated back to Martini and Rossi because we're like, why would we? Because we have this bad memories.
+
+[49:27] So um the pitfalls of pre-mixing in Manhattan are that you make a bad ratio with a whole lot of uh booze. So I would always make sure I would always test your ratio on one first and then pre-mix before you waste a whole lot of booze. I would also exclude oxygen unless you're into the old school aging uh that people used to do with them. Um and especially if you pre-dilute them. So I like to make full strength Manhattans, i.e.
+
+[49:53] just vermouth booze and bitters, uh, and then store them in plastic soda bottles in the freezer, and then when you mix that with the right quantity of ice water, which like two of that, one of ice water, I think. I have to go back and look at it, it just comes out Manhattan. So you can just go, you know, out, out the door. You know what I mean? And so then, like when I'm gone and someone's at my house and they're like, I want a cocktail, we can be gone.
+
+[50:18] You know what I mean? No measuring, no musk, no fuss. And it lasts a long time. I've had it over a year, I've done had it and it's you know good. So I would I would do that.
+
+[50:27] Uh is it crucial to leave virtually no headspace in the container? Yes. Yeah. If you don't want it to change, if you like oxidized vermouth, then God bless. You know what I mean?
+
+[50:36] Uh if using glass containers, should I um can I safely store them in a home freezer? It really depends on whether or not you're ever gonna freeze it. If you're gonna freeze it, then no, you things can break. But uh, if you don't pre-dilute it, Manhattan won't freeze. If you don't pre-dilute it, the Manhattan won't freeze.
+
+[50:53] It might get, it'll get syrupy, but it won't freeze. If you dilute it, it could break. But also, if you store it in glass, then you have to worry about uh getting the headspace out. So unless you have some way of purging it, or if you don't mind it oxidizing. Um then uh what should be asking that you're not asking?
+
+[51:13] I don't know. Seems like seems like all the good questions, right? And in the end, is this a reasonable strategy? Yeah, I do it. But you have to be willing to deal with uh the ugly plastic soda bottles in your freezer.
+
+[51:22] Some people just can't deal with it, it's too ugly for them. Yeah, you know what I mean? You're just too fancy. You can't deal with the plastic soda bottles. And by the way, uh, not like a soda bottle you can squeeze.
+
+[51:32] The whole point is squeezing. And if you're lucky enough to live in England to have the very gas impermeable uh bottles, even better. Like our bottles aren't as good here. Um, all right. Okay.
+
+[51:44] Ellie uh Schoenhorn writes in, hey, uh love your book, Liquid Intelligence. One of our favorite recipes is the flat leaf, which is a parsley. Uh we've been struggling to find uh arnsia, even at Latin grocery stores or even Google. Could you clarify what type of orange it is? Not Seville, right?
+
+[51:57] I need someone who can hook me up here. When you go to a store and you buy the bumpy sour oranges that are used to make like sour orange and like garlic mixes and sour orange, what what are other words for that orange? Because that's the orange I'm talking about. They're full of seeds, they're real pulpy, they're sour, they're bitter, but they're not Sevilles. You could use Sevilles in the flat leaf, let's be honest.
+
+[52:27] But it's just not wasn't designed for that fancy, fancy, fancy, fancy stuff. But I don't know the other names. Does any of you guys know I'm talking about? You know what I'm talking about. You've been into stores in New York City that sell to Latin Latinx groups, and they're bumpy.
+
+[52:42] They sometimes have green on the outside, ugly as hell. They're all different sizes. Pick the heaviest ones because the ones that are light are just dry as all get out, and you're not gonna get any juice out of them. You know what I mean? Are you literally Googling bumpy, ugly bitter oranges?
+
+[52:59] I'm looking at what my purveyors have. Oh, yeah, but but Aldoor doesn't sell that stuff. I'm not looking, not that fancy. Chef's warehouse, baby. I see.
+
+[53:10] Uh Scott Fielder wrote in uh Fiedler, sorry. I'm wondering if you've ever used a hydrometer to measure the specific density of any cocktails after shaking or stirring. I've read the section in liquid intelligence where you say it's important to pour the tonic on top of the gin. Well, that's the reason you pour the tonic on top of the gin is because you need I recommend that you put the ice and the cup in the uh the glass in the freezer, and if you pour the tonic directly on a frozen glass, it'll nucleate and blast out. So the the gin is just taking the edge off those sites so you don't get immediate nucleation when you pour your tonic in, which makes sense, right?
+
+[53:45] It should make sense. Uh I hope it makes sense. I'm wondering if the same is also true for a cocktail like a Tom Collins, where I short shake short shake the simple syrup, lemon juice, and gin. Obviously, this is dependent on the spec and the amount of dilution, but is it better to top or bottom with the club soda? If you're using a frozen glass, then I would definitely add the stuff that is going to take the edge off that freeze before you add the carbonated stuff.
+
+[54:08] I mean, that's the main reason. Or perhaps the shake in simple lemon is less dense than the clubs. It's not a density factor in this case. It's just helping you to not um nucleate like a mother. Some people I know will i if you're not using a frozen glass, I know some people are like, little bit of soda, all the mix, a little more soda stir, right?
+
+[54:30] Because then they get like the best of all the kind of world. Because I do hate it when a uh a drink isn't uh mixed properly, and then you know, it changes radically from the top to bottom, unless that's of course what you intend to have happen. But it rarely is. What are drinks? What are drinks like that?
+
+[54:45] Do you like like drinks that like look all different from the top to the bottom? No. Tequila, sunrise and all that. No. Not your not yours.
+
+[54:52] Yeah, mix it. Yeah. So when someone sends you something and it's all layered, someone makes you a pousse cafe, you're like you can mix it up. Like someone hands like like John a pousse cafe, which is not a drink anyone should ever make. Like that's just not a skill that needs to exist anymore, right?
+
+[55:07] He's like, give me a straw. And just in front of the bartender, it just stirs the hell out of it. Yeah. Yeah. All right.
+
+[55:14] Don't care about the layers. Don't care about the effect. What about the ones where you have like the little sugar cube in the bottom with the with the with the stuff and it's sending the bubbles up? Do you smash that up and stir it in? I don't know if I've ever had one of those drinks.
+
+[55:25] All right. Now, you know, well, when there's life, there's hope. Yeah. Um, and no, I've never used a hydrometer to measure the specific uh gravity of cocktails after shaking or stirring because uh it's affected by a bunch of things. And so unless you have unless you can guarantee that you know all of the variables and have done all of the plots to figure it out, it's not it's not the same with a refractometer, it just doesn't tell you what you need to know.
+
+[55:50] So what you can do is you can shake or store stir pure ethanol. So you just do vodka and ice, which I have done that, right? And you can figure out the proof of your of your drink based on that, but then you're making the assumption that once you add things like sugar that it's going to dilute the same way, which you can't guarantee. You just can't guarantee it. And so uh I don't, but I believe it or not, I'm actually working on this problem with uh, you know.
+
+[56:18] A hypothetical book? The book is not hypothetical. In fact, I went to the I went to the hundredth anniversary of Norton this week, right? You know, when I came back uh from uh Rochester, and the um it was kind of fun. Saw my editor, Melanie.
+
+[56:35] She is mad, but not overly mad at me. Yeah. Good. And yeah, it's kind of an amazing thing. Michael Lewis was talking, you know.
+
+[56:42] Of course, Kenji's books were everywhere, but he wasn't because you know, he wasn't gonna fly out just for just for a little thing like the hundredth anniversary of the busy getting James Beard awards. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh time more uh time Moroni writes how much can you tell from the pH of a cocktail?
+
+[57:00] It uh and also isn't it dependent on temperature? I'll tell you what you can tell about the from the pH of a cocktail. Nothing. Nothing. Uh yeah, don't use a pH meter on cocktails.
+
+[57:10] Uh it doesn't work. It's it's a it's a fool's errand uh percent acidity. And when you're looking stuff up, look up titratable acidity, it's a much better correlation to kind of what's going on. All right. In the little time we have left, Nastasia hasn't said anything about anything interesting happened to her this week.
+
+[57:25] She's been in Los Angeles. Anything good happened? Uh I'm here at my parents' house drinking coffee. Coffee. Nice.
+
+[57:35] Do they have the the exact level of not good coffee that you like? Yep. All right, cool. I appreciate that. I appreciate that.
+
+[57:44] Appreciate it. Uh all right. So in R last time I was in Rochester, I have what's called a garbage plate. You guys familiar with the garbage plate? Garbage plate is like either hot dogs or or you know, hamburgers, cheeseburgers with meat sauce, which is ground up hot, they call it hot sauce.
+
+[57:58] It's like a hot meat sauce, home fries, and then I had and a bunch of other stuff. Beans is what I had. And I was like, meh. I had it from uh Nick Tahoe's, which is the kind of well known one. And everyone said, You're an idiot, you're Jamoke, because there's a cultural, there's a an age gender divide.
+
+[58:13] And the answer is max salad, not beans. And I had two garbage plates when I was in Rochester this time uh at the Rochester Cocktail Revival. And I have to say, max salad is the answer. I am now a fan. I had one with hamburgers, I had one with uh Zweiggle's Reds.
+
+[58:28] I am now a fan of the garbage plate. I'm all about the garbage plate. I'm very pro garbage plate. I will I will get down and dirty with anyone who's anti-garbage plate. And uh from Bean2 Bar, uh, we have uh Justin uh went to my demo and he gave us some chocolate to try.
+
+[58:43] So John and I are gonna try some of his chocolate on the air that he makes up there in Rochester. So what do we have here? This is single variety. Single variety, 70% dark chocolate from Huila Colombia. And if any of you are interested, it's BN2BR.com.
+
+[58:58] Joe, you want some? Not really now. All right. And uh let's try some more. Good.
+
+[59:03] Yeah. Yeah. It's got a nice acidity. What should we try? Should we try one of his infused ones?
+
+[59:07] How about this one? Lemon white. Yeah. Even though, you know, everyone knows my feelings on white chocolate. I don't know, Justin.
+
+[59:14] Not lemony colored. But of course, you know, whatever. Let's see. Let's see. All right, you eat that one.
+
+[59:19] Are we still eating? All right, well. Justin, wait, John's gotta put this in his mouth, but he's gotta finish your Colombian. You've got 27 seconds to finish your Colombian. Uh in newsstand uh studios.
+
+[59:35] We're super super happy. And uh I think we're happy. I'm glad uh glad you're having us. I'm happy. I think we're all happy.
+
+[59:44] I like it. You love it? Different. You're pro lemon. All right, you talk about the lemon while I eat the lemon.
+
+[59:48] Four seconds, dude. Oh, very tart. Wasn't expecting how tart it is. Exactly. I have to say texture on it's really good too.
+
+[59:55] All right, yeah. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan at Rockefeller Center, News Stance Studios in New York City. Joined as usual with uh John, how you doing? Doing great. Yeah.
+
+[0:23] Yeah. Peachy. Yeah? Yeah. Peachy, huh?
+
+[0:25] Yeah. All the way to Peachy. From last year, Choky. Wait, last week choky, this week Peachy? I guess so, yeah.
+
+[0:31] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Rocking the panels, we got Joe Hazen. How you doing?
+
+[0:34] I'm doing well, man. Good to see you guys, everyone. Yeah, I'm sweaty as a as a see that. I thought I, for some reason, I was like, I'm not gonna be sweated. I don't know why.
+
+[0:43] Like, my body's different than it's been my whole life. Nope. Nope. I got uh Nastasia, how you doing? Good.
+
+[0:53] Yeah? Yeah. How's uh how's it out there in on the uh the other coast? Anything uh good happening over there? It's good.
+
+[1:00] Uh well, do we have uh do we have our good friend Jackie Molecules? Yes, sir. Uh well good to good to good to good to have you. Uh for our hundred and first hundred and first episode. Last week was our hundredth episode on this uh fantastic network.
+
+[1:15] And then in the upper upper, upper upper left, left corner, Quinn, how you doing? Hey, I'm good. Good. So uh before we begin anything, I heard on the uh, well, I should I I heard from Nastasia because she told me that they went out for a burger. And by the way, next week we have uh George Matson, who's uh re re has a re-edition of the Great American Burger Book.
+
+[1:38] Now, I was mailed this burger book to my house, and my wife looks at the burger book and says on it, right underneath the big big big title, Great American Burger Book, says author of Hamburger America. Jen looks at me and goes, think this guy likes burgers? Like, no, probably not. Probably not. If you like write one book called The Great American Burger Book, and your other book is called Hamburger America.
+
+[2:06] Like, what's the next? What do you guys think the next title is? Burgers in America? Hamburgers across America, maybe. Yeah.
+
+[2:12] Hamburgers across America. American hamburger. An American hamburger abroad. Oh. Yeah, which is I'm gonna ask him about that.
+
+[2:19] I'm gonna ask him if he's ever had a decent burger abroad. I think somebody could make a killing. Like an American going to another country and opening up a burger spot would make a fortune. The burgers are just so different in other countries. You did different i.e.
+
+[2:33] worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh yeah, we've had this discussion, but we'll have it with the burger direct for now. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I haven't read the book yet.
+
+[2:40] Uh you know, I have until next Tuesday to read the book in its entirety, cover it with post-it notes and have something reasonable to ask, right? Uh and Patreon people, please ask uh, you know, burger questions. Or call in, by the way. If you're listening on Patreon, call your questions to uh 917 410 1507. Uh 917410 1507.
+
+[3:00] Now, um, isn't Mott's the the isn't he the one that advocates smashing the onions in? Wiggins, that's a that's a style of burger from Oklahoma that he is a big problem. That's that's what I'm saying. He's the one who has gone all over the country and says this is the way to make a burger. Yeah.
+
+[3:19] Yeah. Yeah. Oklahoma. Yeah. Never been to Oklahoma.
+
+[3:22] Nastasia, what do they do in Oklahoma? What happens in Oklahoma? Do I know? Yeah, the wind. It comes sweeping down the plane.
+
+[3:31] And the waving wheat. Sure smells sweet. When the wind comes right behind the wing. What? Can you tell the can you tell the drop box story, please?
+
+[3:40] Oh, yeah. Yeah. First, let me do this. I heard when you were having a burger, a simultaneously too rare and yet overcooked gray hamburger in uh the great city of Los Angeles. On your way to get this guys.
+
+[3:53] Ready? A Pauly Shore concert. No. Pauly Shore. Jack was walking down the street and said, Pauly Shore is playing the comedy store.
+
+[4:05] I'm gonna get tickets. He texted me. Yeah. And so how was it? That's freaking hilarious.
+
+[4:12] I I told you you were either gonna beat your head against the wall or you were gonna love it. I feel like he has to. I feel like he's gone through so much humiliation that that's so good for a comic that he's gotta be the funniest guy on earth at this point. Jack, what did you think? It was good.
+
+[4:29] It was very dark and depressing, just how I like my comedy. Yeah, nice. Nice. So like uh he like doesn't look good, he does not look good, you know. Yeah, of course not.
+
+[4:38] Is he still got the whole stoner persona or no? Like, what does a 60 like two or 63-year-old stoner persona like who looks depressed look like? So, not like the Cheech and Chong when they got into that kind of era of their lives, you know, stoner feel, but like uh Cheech Moran, apparently, incredibly smart guy, wins all of the celebrity trivia tournaments like that, like amazingly sharp dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, do not get in a trivia battle with Cheech Morin, apparently.
+
+[5:06] Never met the man. Wow. I'm just hearing that. No, Pauly Shore just looks not like um it's not like a charming bad. It's just like a sad bad.
+
+[5:17] That makes sense. Sad stoner dad. Not dad. More like weird uncle. And bachelor.
+
+[5:26] Drunkle. Yes. The drunkle. The drunk. 100%.
+
+[5:33] Yeah. Love it. That's good. That that sounds like it makes for for good depressing, self-deprecating comedy, which we all uh enjoy, right? Anyway.
+
+[5:43] Yeah. Well, I knew I had a secret feeling that even though Nastasia was dreading going, that she was gonna have a good time. That's all I'm saying. Well, so far Nastasia's uh habit here is taking me to have the worst burgers in LA. So George, you know what?
+
+[6:02] Here's what I would like you to do, Jack. I would like you to make a compilation of these horrible Nastasia endorsed burgers, and we can discuss them next week with uh someone who may or may not know something about hamburgers in the uh in the state, you know, in the United States. You know what I'm saying? We're in America, so he should be able to help. I mean, some people would disagree, but yes, I agree.
+
+[6:24] Anyway, um, I agree. Uh all right, so uh speaking of what Nastasi wanted me to speak of, not cooking, well, kind of cooking related, because if this had actually happened, like there would be no more cooking issues because there would be no I I would have fortunately I live on the fourth floor, so I would at most have like smashed up some of my bones had I just flown out the window Wall Street style after a crash. But uh, because I oh my god, I get a text at midnight. Midnight, right? Midnight 30, something like that.
+
+[6:58] No, a call at midnight 30 from Nastasia. I'm like, yeah, I'm like, Nastasia's in LA, her butt, her butt's dialing me. Because our butts dial the phone quite a bit, right? So she butt dials me, and I'm like, you must have butt dobbed me. What the hell?
+
+[7:11] She's like, no, I erased the drop box. Now, for those of you that don't know, like literally everything that Booker Index has done since since 2011, is stored on a drop box. So, like all of the CAD files for all of our products, all of like the user manuals, like all the cooking issues episodes, like everything is on the drop box. And she's like, um, well, we don't have any money right now, so I can't afford to get a laptop with a bigger hard drive. And it was filling up my hard drive, so I said to to delete it, and it deleted it everywhere.
+
+[7:58] And that was it. That was that was it. And we were like, Yeah. I was like, oh I was like, I'm dead. I'm dead, you're dead, I'm dead, we're dead.
+
+[8:06] That's it. Like, you know what I mean? It's like we've been fighting our way through all these problems. Gone. Company gone.
+
+[8:13] Thank goodness, it turns out that Dropbox has a maybe I shouldn't have done that button that you can go back and get all your stuff back. But for that couple of minutes, I was just like, but you know how I am, Stas? Like, once I'm in a place where I'm completely and totally shafted, I'm like, I'm kind of like, okay, right? I mean, I was a little bit angry, I was a little freaked out at first, but then I was like, okay. Yeah, they jump up and like unplug everything.
+
+[8:38] Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. So as soon as she tells me that it happened, before I said anything, I jumped over my couch, because my computer is still hardwired into the wall. I jumped over my couch and then just grabbed all of the cords, including the Ethernet cord, and ripped them out of the wall, hoping that it like if she couldn't recover it, that it would only have deleted like a chunk of the drop box. And then I like jumped, because like you know, I live in New York, right? So my internet is like up in a high high closet somewhere, like where all that stuff is.
+
+[9:11] I went up there and just grabbed the router and ripped it out, like ripped it out, so all the cables like ripped out, just to like shut the internet down, like shut the internet off. You know what I mean? Uh but she was able to recover it, and thankfully, I didn't destroy any of my computers, so all as well that all as well that ends with it. And then 30 minutes later, I texted, I'm like, I said an email. I'm like, uh everything okay, guys.
+
+[9:40] Yeah, a little bit unusual. And Nastasi's like, you're late to the party, Quinn, you're late to the party. Anyway, so yeah, that was a that was a joy. Joy, yeah, let's do that again and again. Although it's not as much fun now that I know it can be fixed.
+
+[9:54] Yeah. You know? Yeah. But you guys should know, if you ever do this to your company, that you can undo it at least on Dropbox. Right?
+
+[10:04] I think. For a certain amount of time at least. By the way, folks, it was over it was over a terabyte of stuff. Over well over a terabyte of like all kind of internal documents. And then I was thinking, you know what, anyway, whatever.
+
+[10:22] I don't want to, I don't want to get into it. What if don't you guys want to find out what that time limit is? Yeah, let's push it. Yeah, like if if I go on vacation, if I go on vacation, Nastasi's gonna nuke the drop box, and then when I get back, she's gonna be like, time's a ticket. If you had waited another day to notice, you would have been hosed.
+
+[10:41] You know what I mean? Or maybe just delete big folders and not say anything, ones that I don't use for like a month at a time. You know what I mean? Anyway. No.
+
+[10:49] Delete all of liquid intelligence. I oh my god. Well, thankfully she doesn't have access to that one. But get this, get this. What's funny is is that back when Nastasi and I were at the French Culinary Institute, she had the laptop, right?
+
+[11:03] And she would always threaten the the the threat was that like, you know, if I ever did something that was like too over the top, that she would just push the delete button and walk away. That was always the threat. Yeah. Yeah. No.
+
+[11:20] Anyway. Uh so this week in New York City is the Bar Convent Brooklyn, not the Brooklyn Bar Convent, because they no one needed another BBC acronym, right? So like it wasn't the bar, the Brooklyn Bar Convent. Or the British Broadcasting Corporation, John, get your mind out of the gutter. Um, yeah, so it's the BCB Bar Convent Brooklyn, which nobody understands why it's called that.
+
+[11:46] Does anyone understand that? No. You know? No. No.
+
+[11:50] How about like, you know, Brooklyn Bar Festival or anything? I don't know. Anything. B C B. People just call it the BCB because nobody wants to call it the Bar Convent, as far as I know.
+
+[12:01] So last night they had the 15th anniversary of Ford's Gin at uh Clover Club, went there, saw Julie and a bunch of the crowd, was nice. Today I'm doing a talk with uh A.K. Hada, uh formerly manager of existing conditions, and of course PDT, and now uh, you know, one of the muckety mucks at Bacardi. Uh, and Jack Shram, also, of course, Existing Conditions, Booker and Dax and Solid Wiggles, and Garrett Richard, who uh is gonna come on again soon with Ben Schaefer about his new book uh Tropical Standard, uh Tropic Standard, and um obviously runs the bar program at Sunken Harbor, one of my favorite bars. Did he happen to work at existing conditions too?
+
+[12:37] Oh yes. Yeah. I don't know if you get uh the talk is uh by a bunch of existing conditions people, and the subject is acid uh and sugar adjusting, right? But I'm gonna break out in public for the first time the succinic acid. So I mean I know I've done it on the thing, but like the succinic acid is the answer for lime.
+
+[12:56] It just brings the truth to the lime. I'll I'll give you a little bit of a what's it called here right now, right? So succinic lime juice, the acidity in lime juice, right? Uh per hundred grams, right? You with me?
+
+[13:12] Hundred grams? Okay, is four grams of citric acid, right, per hundred grams, two grams malic acid per 100 grams, right? 0.04 grams of succinct acid, 0.04. Very hard to make that solution, right? So instead, what I recommend people do, because uh Quinn tells me, right, Quinn, that Modernist Pantry is now carrying succinct acid.
+
+[13:42] It's not on their website yet, but it has to be. Yeah, they have it, but it's not up on their website yet. So you can buy food grade succinct acid from modernist pantry in the extraordinarily near future, as well as magnesium carbonate. They got both of them. Uh magnesium carbonates for clarifying starch.
+
+[13:57] Anyway, so what I recommend people do is make an 8% solution. So that's uh eight grams of uh succinic acid and whatever 100 minus eight is. What is that? 92? 92 grams of um 92 grams of hot water.
+
+[14:13] Succinic acid doesn't dissolve very well. So 8% is right at the solubility level of uh maximum solubility of succinct acid, max. Uh and right then it is easy because it is half a milliliter per um per 100 grams or five milliliters per liter of juice, which is much easier to measure. And uh 100 mils is also 20 drops if you use an eyedropper. So it's easy to do small amounts and not have to bust out a scale that weighs, you know, that can weigh minuscule amounts of stuff.
+
+[14:43] So that's what I would recommend doing if you use succinic acid. Comes out to about you could you also do a blend of citric and succinct? That was like a proper issue. Well, I'm glad you asked that, Quinn. Here's the problem with making mixes of powders.
+
+[14:59] Like this is an entire like this is an entire thing that like industry worries about is that powders, in order for them not to self-partition, need to have almost identical particle sizes and densities. Otherwise, like you know how you take like like like a box of sand with bigger rocks in it, you shake it and they'll stratify. So the same thing will happen with mixes. So people who sell powdered mixes like for cakes and whatnot spend a lot of time worrying about, although I guess not for a cake, things that you scoop out like bisquick, right? They spend a lot of time making sure that the stuff inside of it won't partition too much over time.
+
+[15:34] So I'd be worried because even if you look at citric acid and malic acid, the stuff that you normally buy, malic acid is powdered much more than the citric acid is typically. I mean, they don't have to be, they can make the powder whatever size they want, but typically that's what happens. And um the issue with it being uh I mean, that's why uh we had a caller or we had uh someone write in and ask us why you know malic makes them choke so much when they use it, and it's just because the powder is finer and so it aerosolizes more and remember I spoke about how much I used to like to huff tang and eat tang. Huff and eat tang. And my mom would say please do not huff the tang.
+
+[16:09] Don't huff the tang. I love huff and tang though. Get that like burning sensation. Get that taste all in your mouth tang. Totally great yeah love tang.
+
+[16:21] Tang delicious all right so uh before I get into uh the questions any uh oh and tomorrow I'm doing a another talk at the Bar Convent Brooklyn uh with uh Kampari USA where we have uh Danielle Reed from Monell coming in talking about how our senses of taste are different our equipment is different she's gonna bring bitter stuff and did you know this? I mean people okay I can I can spoil a little bit here's something I did not know ready so we all well not we all a lot of us know that there's this thing called PTC or prop that is some people find intensely bitter and some people can't taste it all right and the people that can taste it were stupidly called I think super tasters because they had the particular receptor to taste prop. And so it's a classic thing that people do where you hand out a bunch of these paper scripts with prop on it and you people put it in your mouth and like you know a chunk of the audience is like because it tastes so bitter and a chunk of the audience is like it's fine and then chunky dollars like what? What? What tastes like paper and I'm that guy tastes like paper.
+
+[17:26] Uh turns out there are also a bunch of people, a large group of people who can't taste quinine as bitter. So there are people out there, and I forget she knows more whether there's like particular uh like ethnicities or groups of people, you know, communities that it it tends to be more prevalent in, but there are whole chunks of people who don't taste tonic water as bitter. And so, like, what must their experience be like of like any liquor with quinine in it? Any like, you know, quinotos or any, you know, uh cap course or tonic water. So we're gonna do uh um three different, we're gonna do no tonic no quinine so that people who can taste quinine can I guess see lime aid, which is what people taste if they can't taste the uh the quinine, regular quinine and double quinine.
+
+[18:16] I did the math, and it turns out that double the quinine I normally use is right at the legal limit. Like just at the legal limit of 83 parts per uh million quinine base in uh, you know, in a beverage, just at the limit, just there. So Quinn and I also spoke to Monitor's Panther because I wanted them to be able to get quinine. I've always wanted to be able to get quinine, but they're not willing to do it because the FDA says basically you you're not allowed to sell as a food to anyone something that has more than less um sorry, more than 83 parts per million in it. And even the simple syrups that I use are way over 83 parts per million.
+
+[18:58] I mean, they're way under 83 parts per million in use, but you know, no one's expected to drink the simple syrup, and so they're not gonna get it. So we have to find someone who's willing to carry quinine, either quinine sulf uh sulfate or quinine hydrochloride. We have to find someone who's willing to do it because the average person isn't gonna make a fake account as a school or a business, set up something with spectrum chemical, and then get the thing shipped to them. No, they're not gonna do that. They should.
+
+[19:24] They should do that, but they won't. If you're friends with anyone who works at a lab, just give them money and have them buy it on the lab's account. Remember to get USP, United States pharmacopia grade. So it doesn't have anything. I mean, it's all made from tree bark anyway.
+
+[19:41] So, but just get the one that's pharmacop you know, US guess go USP. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And but get whatever's cheaper, the sulfate or the uh or the hydrochloride. It doesn't really matter.
+
+[19:52] All right. All right. Enough of that. Uh any of you guys uh got some uh interesting food uh garbage from the last week? Uh I got some.
+
+[20:01] All right, what do you got? I uh I don't know if you remember this from our last tea related episode, but I got some of my locally grown and produced tea. Ah, all right. So what is tea taste like grown where it shouldn't be grown? I'm kidding, I'm messing with you.
+
+[20:24] How is it? Is it good? Uh so I got this thing, it's incredibly rare, but it turns out it was worthless, so don't worry about it. No, it's okay. The aromas and the flavors are really good.
+
+[20:43] However, I mean that's pretty much the whole McGill, right there. So what's the however? What do you got? Okay. Again, the way I brew is going through style.
+
+[20:55] Okay. So for the uninitiated at the high ratio of leaves to water, you're brewing small volumes of water, but you're brew you're doing it multiple times in a row. Uh-huh. Yeah. And the problem was it's really thin.
+
+[21:17] Like I flash brewed the first infusion, so probably like a seven-second infusion. And I'm like, oh, this is nice. It's a little light, but I expected that because I did it so quickly. And then I do the second infusion, which was like probably 15 seconds. And I'm like, oh no.
+
+[21:49] This is already lighter than the first one. And then did you just take some aside and just do like a standard like Jocomo like long hot steep to see whether you would ever get anything out to see whether it was like leaf geometry or what was going on? No, I just kept doing it. And again, nothing was unpleasant. It's just really light.
+
+[22:14] I I'm wondering if it's a matter of just how long, how young the plants are. I mean, I don't know, but I'm gonna I'm gonna channel my inner nostasi here and say they should mo probably leave it to the experts who've been doing it for hundreds and hundreds of years. I don't know. Just I don't think I think bas based on the flavor and the aroma, I think they know what they're doing. I wonder if we get too much rain.
+
+[22:40] I mean, I I mean, I don't know. Listen, you know how like they grow wine grapes where wine grapes grow really well. And like and like not in other places. We make really good wine here too. Yeah, but I'm not saying okay, okay, you know how they grow kiwi fruits in places where kiwi fruits can grow?
+
+[23:02] You know what I mean? Or like passion fruits. Oh my god. Does everything grow on Vancouver Island, Quinn? I know you're a weird microclimate, but what I'm saying is that there are places on earth that grow the best of X, Y, and Z, and maybe Vancouver Island is not the place that grows the best X, Y, and Z when it comes to T.
+
+[23:18] That's all. That's all I'm saying. Maybe. I'm also wondering if part of the problem is that nobody at the company is brewing it the way I do it. Well, I mean, there are multiple issues here, Quinn.
+
+[23:35] And it all goes back to what Nastasia Lopez always tells me is that why don't you just get the people who have the best place for growing tea and who have hundreds of years of expertise who grow up with people who that's all they do and buy their stuff while you wait for these people to have a couple hundred years under their belt so that they can make the stuff that's just as good. I mean, Nastasi, am I misstating what what you tell me all the time? That's what you say, but you don't follow my advice. I'm up for doing it once or twice or trying it, right? I'm just saying that, like, you know.
+
+[24:09] I just traded too. I know, but I I've just said I've had good results with these unusual local products. Okay. Oh, yeah. Well, you need to send.
+
+[24:22] Listen, before you say the olive oil is great, you need to send that to Captain Oily, our boy Nick. Well, you can you can buy his own olive oil. Oh my god, he'll say he'll trade you an olive oil. I say, what are we talking about here? Send him some oil, and why don't we get all I'm saying is we happen to know a person who is a world expert, like a world expert on tasting olive oils of zillions of varieties from zillions of places over different years at different points in harvest.
+
+[24:52] And if you happen to know that guy, I would just send him a small sample. That's all I'm saying. Am I wrong here? No. Yeah.
+
+[25:01] Let's send him a sample. Booker and Dax will pick up the shipping. Send Mr. Oils a little bit of this fancy, fancy. Maybe we should wait till next year's harvest.
+
+[25:12] He can also taste around, he can taste around what happened between one of the man knows how to do it. If you're sending anything, send over some more of those uh those chicory or hickory chips. Oh, the hickory chips? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I'm also a big fan of the cheesies, the Hawkins cheesies.
+
+[25:28] Everyone's a fan of the Hawkes. Yeah, we can do redo. Except for like uh nobody likes the mouth noises from the Hawkins cheesies, but the Hawkins cheesies are delicious products. Like that's right up there. Like Canadian products that like, you know, should be everywhere, Hawkins cheesies and real peel meal pea meal bacon.
+
+[25:44] Real peel me pea meal bacon is delicious. And not the not the rancid crap we call Canadian bacon here in the United States, which is an abomination, a nightmare. Not worthy of a sandwich. No. No.
+
+[25:58] Real pea meal, worthy of a sandwich. An egg sandwich? Mmm. On a roll? Mmm.
+
+[26:05] Toronto. You gotta go back to Toronto. I was close. I was in Rochester last week. Yeah, oh, speaking of, get this.
+
+[26:13] Uh so I had a thought. You know how, like uh when a lot of terrible things happen and people who are good people worry about the actual problems, like the forest catching on fire and all of us having lung damage and all that. What about the price of maple syrup next year? Uh oh. Yeah.
+
+[26:31] Yeah. Yeah. So this harvest year, David's done. Doesn't matter. Over.
+
+[26:36] Long over. Next year, is it gonna is it gonna suck? Now I know this is not a lie. Canada has a strategic reserve of maple syrup, right? Because it was it was robbed once.
+
+[26:47] You can look it up. There's a huge maple syrup robbery a long time ago. Uh like like not even that. Like tens of thousands of gallons more. Like a lot of maple syrup was robbed.
+
+[26:57] Who who who did that? Another Canadian guy. Oh man. Love this. Yeah, right?
+
+[27:02] Maple syrup robbery. I mean, like, if we're gonna steal something, why not steal something really heavy that's hard to move? 3,000 tons is how much they took. Well, 3,000 tons? Over the course of several months.
+
+[27:15] It's not in one go. That would be 3,000 tons. Alright, so I can do this. You ready? So 3,000.
+
+[27:21] Uh so we're trying you want to find into liters. So 3,000 metric tons is 6,000 kilos, right? So 6,000 kilos divide by 1.33, and that's how many liters of maple syrup got stolen. 1.33, because it has rough density of 1.33. So uh because it's two to one.
+
+[27:41] So that's a lot of maple syrup to steal. But point being, like, if all those forests are burning, like what the heck's gonna happen to the price of maple syrup. And especially the cost of that that age syrup they have. Well, if it's aged. Well, you wanna you you know, it's like it's gonna that'll go up in a couple years when this stuff goes down.
+
+[27:59] Right. But all I'm saying is, man, is that I got to have my syrup. Yeah. I gots to have my syrup. So, you know, now's the time to stockpile.
+
+[28:09] Like, you know, next to the gold bricks that you keep under your bed, just, you know, get some, get some jerry cans, and instead of filling them with terror water, which is what I have, all the jerry cans in my house are filled with terror water for when like a they're not just terror, like whenever there's a storm or power goes out, we don't have water. So I have like, I have a couple of days of water in my house at all times. Don't look at me like I'm crazy. And just fill them with maple syrup instead. I have the cans, the really good ones, the ones that you could strap to the outside of a Jeep, not that I own a Jeep.
+
+[28:38] You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, I mean, maple syrup is tart water.
+
+[28:43] So it's like, it's kind of like you'll uh emergency water. Yeah, I mean, um, that would be quite a that that's quite a thick water to drink. Let me tell you this. If you are laying down, if you are laying down five gallon jerry cans of maple syrup, be sure to pasteurize those suckers before you uh before you put it in. So you have to like immerse the entire jerry can in water that's hot enough to kill the molds and whatnot, because you don't want five gallons of maple syrup growing uh mold.
+
+[29:14] You just don't. Better yet, hot fill that sucker. Hot fill it. Take the maple syrup like in a giant five gallon pot, take it up to like 180, you know, Fahrenheit. Like, not depends.
+
+[29:27] The polyethylene can't take much more than that. So, like 175 or like take it to 180, let it cool down to 175, and then maybe pre-dump hot water into your jerry cans and then put the maple syrup in, cap it right away. It'll form a vacuum. There will be no mold. I hate moldy maple.
+
+[29:44] You ever had awful. Yeah. Sad. Disgusting. Speaking of syrup, that relates to our first question.
+
+[29:54] Uh well, I don't know what's first. Oh, Steve, good one. Yeah, let me let me hit the centrifuge question first. Uh fuck, because it's centrifuge question. And you know what we sell?
+
+[30:05] Centrifuges. Yeah, centrifuges. Correct. Correct. If you're not going to be able to do this, where can they get a centrifuge?
+
+[30:11] I believe you can go to uh a little website known as you are.cool forward slash spinzall. That's you are dot cool forward slash spinzall, where you can still order one. Yeah, that's right, people. If you order one, you are cool. You are dot cool slash spinzall.
+
+[30:28] Oh boy. Spinzall, spinzall, spinzall. You know what? I wish that like I had like lived a separate. I don't want to not have lived my life, but I also would like to have been a guy that goes to monster truck rallies and like helps and nods and stuff like that.
+
+[30:45] You know what I mean? Yeah. I think I would have enjoyed it. Damn, son. Where'd you find this?
+
+[30:50] There you go. Yeah. Yeah. Sweet. Wow.
+
+[30:54] Well done. Yeah, I mean, like, I could have gotten a job at Yonkers Raceway. I feel like pretty I feel like I could have gotten a job at Raceway Park. I feel like I could have. Anyway.
+
+[31:05] Umtack says, most of the centrifuge recipes I've heard are for getting a clear liquid out, and I assume tossing the solids. Now you do not need to toss the solids. This is a good question. Are there any interesting usage for uh uses for the solid from a centrifuge run? I know part of the answer is depends on what you were centrifuging, etc.
+
+[31:21] Well, all of the answer is depends on what you're centrifuging. But I'll give you a few good solids. One, uh I happen one of my favorite things to make is the is the pseudo butter that we make. It's not actual butter because it's not fully inverted, but it's that super creamy. It's still got like a lot of the buttermilk in it, but like that the like the spin's all like butter is like I think hyper on point.
+
+[31:45] Nastasi even likes that. She hates most of the things I make. Correct, Nastasia? Correct. Yeah.
+
+[31:44] So that's the solids. And then you can use the buttermilk. You can do it cultured or not. It's up to you. Just make sure the stuff's cold when it goes in.
+
+[31:56] Right. Two, uh, and this is a real weird one, you can fractionate fats. So you can you can take uh like chick. This this is really experimental, okay? Like, don't come back to me and say that it was a pain in the butt.
+
+[32:11] But you can take like chicken fat and then uh melt it and then put it in and then spin it as it chills, and it will spin out the solids, and then you can get the solids that solidify first, and so you can make a schmaltz pie crust, which is fun. You do it once. This goes back to Quinn's tea. You do it once just to say you've done it, and then you're like, I wish I could buy that product because it would be delicious, but oh hell no, I'm not gonna make that again. Uh spinning out uh Greek yogurt into lobne or spinning regular yogurt into Greek, you use the solids.
+
+[32:45] You can also use the whey leftover, but it's a good way to do that because it makes it real dense. Uh look when you're blending olives and you want to get like hyper topanade, you can use the solids. And you're doing fruits, you can take uh like one of the best things. Remember uh when we uh handed the long, remember longs? Yeah, love him.
+
+[33:04] Love long. Long was the best. I think where is he now? Is he in Taiwan now? Anyway, so like, and he went to per se.
+
+[33:09] We're like, why are you gonna go to Per se? You don't need to go to Per se. You already know everything. Why do you need to go to Perse? And he went to Perse anyway because he wanted punishment.
+
+[33:15] Anyway, so uh for like two years he went to per se. There's a lot of punishment. A lot of punishment. For what? Anyway, so uh we handed him uh a bunch of peach from the bottom of uh the centrifuge buckets because Nastasi and I had to mix it with bourbon for a cocktail we were making.
+
+[33:29] And he added uh a little more simple syrup. This is all he added, a little simple syrup, and then LN LN spun it like out like it was ice cream and made like a frozen uh peach pie. That was good. That was real good. Because it didn't have an ice cream texture, it had more of like a pumpkin pie texture, but it was cold and it was like all peach, all peach.
+
+[33:57] 100% peach. Good. Good, right, Stuz. That was like amazing, yeah. Yeah, good.
+
+[34:05] And fast and from something we were gonna throw away. So you can the things that I think taste terrible are uh when you're spinning tomatoes, if you are if you don't peel the tomato, if you peel the tomatoes, then everything is good. The stuff tastes like the stuff that's left over tastes like um like tomato uh paste, right? The seeds go all the way to the back, so you can harvest the seeds out. If you seed it before you put it in, then the solids basically are tomato paste, right?
+
+[34:33] And then clear tomato water. The skins are gross. Skins, tomato skins are gross, they're bitter, they're not good. Uh, which is weird, right? Because the highest skin amount that you can get on a tomato are the grape tomatoes, but they're also really sweet.
+
+[34:48] But when you spin them, they get a lot of the bitter seed thing in them. So actually, I prefer the larger Kampari tomatoes if I'm not gonna bother peeling them. But really, sometimes it's better just to I hate to say this, spin uh spin tomato juice. Because if you spin tomato juice, there's no seeds or skin to worry about. Whatever.
+
+[35:05] Um what else is real real nasty? The tannins at the bottom of a nut spin, the very bottom tannins on a nut spin like pecan skins aren't the best. Uh, but most of the stuff you can use. We used to sp spin nuts, and you have both the nut butter and the oil, and you can use both. So a lot of times you can use both.
+
+[35:22] All right. Covered, smothered, right? Steve Goodwin writes in uh last year I took your recommendations to forage for linden tree blossoms and made a one-to-one simple syrup. Turned out delicious. However, after about a week or so in the fridge, I discover what looked like mold on the surface.
+
+[35:35] Is there anything? Uh whether it's the addition of a preservative or maybe a change to my procedure that you could recommend to extend the shelf life. Um, I may change this year and use the serve to make kombucha. Let me know what you think. Jeez, I don't know.
+
+[35:47] Like if mold's happening that fast, I wonder whether you had like some temperature issues in your in your fridge, or maybe it's just there's so much stuff on the linden blossoms when they're freshly collected that it's just like kind of hyper-inoculated. Um I've never heated linden up, but again, if you heat it up much above 150 or so, 160, you should kill most of the mold that's in it, and um that should knock it back. I usually heat stuff up though to like I I should have looked up the numbers, but like 160. Maybe someone can look up while I'm doing this, like what the number you need to hit to kill the mold is, or you could add preservatives, but that's kind of a pain in the Tootelheimer, right? Any sort of you could either make acidify it, that'll help, or you could um I mean you could hit it with like benzoate and sorbate and all that stuff, but I don't know.
+
+[36:35] I just try heat, right? Yeah, yeah. Um, I don't know, I've never made kombucha. Can I say that? He's like he said he said we might change gears and use it to make kombucha.
+
+[36:46] I've never made kombucha. It'd be good. They've made plenty of kombucha. Okay. That checks out.
+
+[36:52] I'm saying it's like, you know, like at a certain point in your life, you have to be like, that's not the thing I'm gonna do. You know? Like, I brewed plenty of beer in my life and I loved it. And of course it was all grain, because please, come on. You know what I mean?
+
+[37:07] But like uh after my second son was born, I was like, nope, don't have the room or the whatever. Although, is it unethical to teach my son how to homebrew in his college dorm? No. No? My wife think it's a bad idea, but I think like, why not have access to like decent beer that you make?
+
+[37:26] Yeah. Instead of having to go buy rot gut. Yeah. You know? I mean, when I was his age, the best beer was free beer.
+
+[37:37] Yeah. It took me a long time to outgrow that. Yeah. You know what I mean? In some ways I'm still like real free beer, I would say.
+
+[37:46] No, come on, man. You're telling me that if someone's like, I will hand you this free insert beer that you hate, or you could just pay five bucks and have the beer that you liked, that you would take the free beer. Oh man, I don't know. Tossed up. Now I know that you I love free things.
+
+[38:07] I love free things. Okay, I'm gonna give you like like as much free barefoot merlot as you can as you can pound, or you're spending $10 a glass on something that's moderately not as barefoot Merlot. I know a real money-saving kick right now, Dave. I get that, but you've got terms have changed. You you threw out a woman.
+
+[38:33] He only pays for a poly shore. Uh well, you know, apparently worth it. Worth it. Worth it. I didn't throw the woman out.
+
+[38:40] I still dated her for a little while. How many bottles could you handle? How many bottles of barefoot could you handle before you're like, this relationship is over? Over. Oh, by the way, Steve's method was, oh my God, this is a lot.
+
+[38:56] Uh Steve Goodwin gathered a four-quart cambro of Linden blossoms. That is not easy on the streets in New York because people walk by, what are you doing? Yeah. What are you doing with the flowers? And then you tell them and they're like, oh.
+
+[39:11] And then that happens. And then you gotta be like, those aren't your flowers, you can't take them. I'm like, in fact, they are die. You know what I mean? We were collecting mulberries once in McCarn Park for MoFat, and somebody sent the cops over and we had to stop.
+
+[39:23] Why though? Public, like the public property. If one person starts doing it, everyone's gonna start doing it. And if one person gathers these fruits that are gonna fall on the ground and stain everything, then everyone will do it. And the ground won't be stained.
+
+[39:37] And then what, John? And then what? I don't know what to tell you. Then no old folks will slip on the berries and ruin their outfits and break their bones. Then what will happen?
+
+[39:50] Doctors will be out of work. Yeah. All because you wanted the four-age mulberries. Ridiculous. Yep.
+
+[39:56] People are dumb. Yeah. Here's the other thing. Like, once somebody gets in their mind that that you're doing something that they wish they somehow could do, then they call the cops on you. And even if there's not a rule, like the cop, the cops, they don't, they're not gonna have the energy to be like, is this a rule?
+
+[40:16] Is this person allowed to do this? They're just gonna tell you to stop. Yeah. Which is garbage. Garbage.
+
+[40:22] Yep. Anyway, irritating. People are irritating. You know what? Here's an idea.
+
+[40:27] Leave people alone. Someone's out there picking mulberries. You know what you should do? Mind your own business. Mind your own business.
+
+[40:34] Mind your own business. I mean, you could pick someone else, too. Yeah, that's minding your own business. Although I think it's bad form to pick right on the tree that someone's picking on. Yeah.
+
+[40:46] Go find your own tree. Go find your own tree. Yeah. Or make a note that they're picking off that tree because they probably know what they're doing. And then go back when they're gone.
+
+[40:55] You know what I mean? Yeah. True. That's the slick move. Yeah.
+
+[41:00] I mean, don't be mean about it. You know what I'm saying? But whatever. Uh, all right. Oh.
+
+[41:06] So you gathered four quarts of uh blossoms, covered them with boiling. Oh, covered them with boiling water. That should have gotten rid of the mold. Something's going on here, uh, Steve. If you cover them with boiling water, let them chill in the fridge overnight, strain out the liquid and dissolve an equal amount of white sugar and store it in the fridge, they should not have it should not have molded.
+
+[41:24] Something happened. You got seated with something, your temperature like got all wonks. Something happened. Um I mean, the depending on the container, it could have just dropped real hard when they poured the water over. Four quarts?
+
+[41:40] No. I mean, like four quarts. Like, unless his container was, you know, uh a Chevy, like, you know, small block engine that he used to pour this stuff in, like the thermal mass is I mean, that's a lot. You know what I mean? I don't know.
+
+[41:55] I don't know what I can't tell you what happened there, Steve. I can't tell you. Reheat it. Reheat it. In here's what I do.
+
+[42:03] So, like what I when I last bought back to maple syrup, I bought like a bunch of gallons of maple syrup. I got ball jars, uh, like quart ball jars, and I filled all the quart ball jars almost to the rim, sealed them down, and then water processed them so that I only had to finish a little bit at a time. Do that. All right. Ben King, I was reading a blog post about pressure infusion technique and read in the comments that rapid depressurization essentially gives the solids the bends.
+
+[42:30] Well, remember, Benz is nitrogen, not nitrous. All right, but yes, I mean I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying, Ben, but just please don't do anything to make people think that nitrogen and nitrous are the same, right? Um gives the solids the bends, rupturing the cells. I don't know about that.
+
+[42:49] I don't know if it ruptures cells. I would have to do some actual like pictures with a microscope. We're getting fish bowl and waved at. Um and allowing for better and faster uh flavor transfer into the liquor. The article mentions that the technique was proposed by Mr.
+
+[43:02] Fizz on YouTube. That's incorrect. Uh who uses it for marinating chicken. That is correct. Uh so what happened is I invented the technique.
+
+[43:11] I saw Mr. That's what happened. I invented the technique. Mr. Fizz, there's a well-known vacuum marination technique, and what Mr.
+
+[43:20] Fizz did was use pressure marination, right? He wasn't trying to make flavored liquor or flavored liquids. He was trying to force marinades into chicken, right? And he did a couple of tests. And what I said was what we can do is use the shifting pressure of nitrogen, nitrous.
+
+[43:46] See, see you're killing me now. You're killing me, Ben. You can use the the shifting pressure of nitrous, which is much more soluble than nitrogen. Force the liquid in to the product, which is kind of like what Mr. Fizz is doing.
+
+[43:57] But well, you know what Mr. Fizz didn't want to have happen? He didn't want to have the liquid boil back out because he's trying to marinate the chicken. You know what I wanted to have happen? I wanted all the liquid to boil back out because what I'm trying to do is flavor the liquid, right?
+
+[44:10] So Mr. Fizz, whatever. It's a canard. I'll tell you something else. I called up the EC Corporation and I said, listen, I'm gonna tell you something you've never heard of it before.
+
+[44:23] They're like, come on. People have used this forever. You didn't come up with anything we haven't heard before. Told them the rapid, told them rapid techniques, they're like, oh yeah, we never heard of that before. Never.
+
+[44:32] Never heard of that. That's all you. I was like, yeah, it is. So I was aware of Mr. Fizz at the time.
+
+[44:39] Not the same. Uh I don't know who wrote the article. But you can tell them, you're like, hello, sir, madame, or whatever. Incorrect. You know?
+
+[44:48] Here's another thing. People write histories, don't know jack squat. Anytime you read a history, right? Even if the people who are telling you, like me right now, telling you, right? I was there, I know because I did it, right?
+
+[45:01] But, you know, people say things to suit their own narrative a hundred percent of the time. And people who write histories choose very small percentages of the narrative. Just go back and read any history textbook and see how cherry-picked that garbage is. You know what I mean? Like, reread the textbooks from when like I was a kid, if you really want to see what cherry picking looks like.
+
+[45:21] You know what I mean? That's why I very rarely get mad at other people's cherry picking, because I'm like, eh, all history is cherry picking. But you know what else? Cherry is delicious. Uh so back to Mr.
+
+[45:31] Fizz. Uh the article mentions the technique was proposed by Mr. Fizz on YouTube, who uses it for marinating chicken. I did a little research and saw a paper discussing ultrasound cavitation. Not cavitation.
+
+[45:42] People, if I hear one more person say that this works because of cavitation, people love to put technical terms on things without actually doing the research. It is not cavitation. All right? Not cavitation. You can use cavitation, it's a different process.
+
+[45:59] Right? So it's also like, and I love some of the people who have pushed this. I don't believe there's a cavitation situation going on in blenders either. Everyone's like, oh, blending, it's all about cavitation. Oh, really?
+
+[46:11] Okay. Um then why aren't the blades getting destroyed? You know what I mean? Like, why doesn't it it you're in training air in a blender. That's where the air bubbles are coming from.
+
+[46:23] Cavitation is literally where you're using force to create a vacuum bubble where there was nothing, right? That's cavitation, and it's real damaging to things. You know what I'm saying? Uh and you can use ultrasound to do that. You're making that awful noise and you're doing it.
+
+[46:40] That is in fact what ultrasounds are doing. Not, I believe what blenders are doing, and not what's happening when you're pressure infusing. You're literally just opening a bottle and letting the gas fly out like you would with seltzer water. But it doesn't taste like seltzer. So you're forcing gas in, the liquids are in, it's in the pores, you open it up, it starts bubbling out, the liquid comes out.
+
+[47:01] That's simple. You don't need like cavitation, you don't need Mr. Fizz and his chicken marination. You just need that. Um anyway, uh I thought I could use either CO2 or N2 tanks, not N2.
+
+[47:15] Not N2. N2 is not soluble. Oh, wait. It is somewhat soluble. So people get bit, N2 is soluble in water.
+
+[47:23] Yes, micro-soluble. Like on the order of 30 times less, or depends on whether you're talking about fats, alcohols, or water. But nitrogen is on the order of 20 to 60 times less soluble in in any of those things than uh nitrous is. Okay. So nitrogen is a terrible thing to use to infuse with.
+
+[47:47] What nitrogen does in liquids, like in the nitro things, which is a terrible term because nitro can mean either nitrous or nitrogen, what nitrogen does is instantly come out of solution when you depressurize and form micro bubbles. And it works best in things like Guinness that have a nucleation site already, carbon dioxide. So Guinness has a small amount of carbon dioxide, because it's not super bubbly, right? They then let the nitrogen go in it and it forms boom, a huge amount of instant microbubbles that form a more stable Guinness head and that cascade effect. That's what nitrogen is for, not for infusing.
+
+[48:22] And it's because people use terms like cavitation when they shouldn't, that they confuse and think that nitrogen's gonna work for these infusion tricks when really what you want is nitrous oxide. And not CO2, because it's gonna make the taste carbonated. Um, I have my house a keg system to induce cavitation on a larger scale. Not cavitation. Here's my problem with kegs.
+
+[48:43] I have done nitrous kegs before. The issue with uh if you look in the book, liquid if you look in liquid intelligence, I have in it a document that was given to me uh table that was given to me by the EC Corporation where they measure the actual pressure that's inside of a uh whipper uh under different conditions. So you have to look at those pressures. In order to maintain those pressures in a standard keg, unless you disassemble the keg and change out the fittings, nine times out of ten, because we used to use kegs to do rapid infusion with with nitrous N2O tanks at existing conditions because we weren't going to pay for all those whippers, right? This the safeties go off and it sucks because you're working right at the level of where the safeties blast off.
+
+[49:27] So you have to write your recipes to go longer with a slightly lower pressure if you're gonna do it. But use nitris, nitrits and two O. Uh, did I cover in some of that or no? Yep. The paint oh, paint pots.
+
+[49:38] You're not using the kegs using paint pots. Max pressure 60 psi. Yeah. Um is that enough pressure? You're gonna have to change the recipe.
+
+[49:46] The advantage of using a keg system over a bottle system is that uh when you're using uh a keg system, you no longer need to worry about how much product you have in it. When you're using whippers, it you're using a specific number of grams, and so you have to be extremely aware of how much uh product you put into the whipper because that's gonna change your ultimate pressure. Once you dial in your recipes, and I would go as high a pressure as you possibly can, and then just figure out how long it takes at that pressure. But once you dial in your recipes, right, you can make a full keg, not full, has to still have shaking room, right? But you're gonna you can make an almost full keg or you can make an almost empty keg, and the results are gonna be the same because now you're functioning with a pressure and not with a number of grams.
+
+[50:28] That makes sense. Yep. All right. And by the way, uh Ben, thanks for writing in and letting me rant on uh on some of these confusions because I literally just had to rewrite a whole section of this for something else anyway. So I appreciate it.
+
+[50:43] Um, Sargon following up on his lime powder from last week. Uh, my core audience loves vodka and soda. Uh I like to put on a show when they come over, and it's sometimes unplanned. My protocol thus far has been add vodka and ice plus a little uh I can't even pronounce it. Eritrophole?
+
+[51:00] All right, thanks, man. Uh, but that's a secret because they all quote unquote hate sugar. To a shaker, I shake until chilled, I measure out the dilution, add extra cold water, carbonate, have them grab a pipette with lime acid and/or champagne acid and have them add it, carbonate it again, drop in a chilling bath until uh final product some sometime sometime between 12 and 18% boo. 18 is a lot, man. You're gonna get people on the floor.
+
+[51:20] Uh I mean it works, but you can eat on the floor. Do you think freeze-dried lime juice, which is dirt cheap and readily available and sucks less, is worth it? Is it worth the effort? I find uh I find that there's definitely a different feel to the drink versus lime acid. Have you tried this accentic sargin?
+
+[51:33] Have you tried this accentic? Have you tried this accentic? Here's what I'm gonna recommend. Try the succinic and then come back and talk to me. Try the scenic and this is a cheat.
+
+[51:44] Put uh a lime wedge on the edge of the glass so they can smell actual lime aroma because the acids don't have the aroma. So if you put the lime wedge on the on the glass, they have the aroma of the fresh lime. And they have the succinic, which fools them into thinking that it's real. I don't know, it might be better than the powder lime. I don't know.
+
+[52:02] They also asked about introducing lime aroma with the lime oil. I I suggested just infusing some lime dust into the vodka. Uh yeah, I mean, like I would not use uh oil because oils don't ever taste like the thing that they come from. They're all good, but they don't taste like the thing that they come from. This is why flavor houses are in business, because this is what they do for a living.
+
+[52:30] Um anyway, but if you can make the the freeze-dried lime powder work, I mean, or you know what you could do? Sorry, you could just clarify a little lime juice. You can just clarify a little lime juice. You don't even need you don't even like you don't even just just let it rack out. Just let it rack out.
+
+[52:45] Just hit it with SPL and uh Kesel Sol, and maybe even just Spiol and Keselsaw if you're not going to use a centrifuge and just see how far it racks down over the course of like a couple of hours to cant off the top. Yeah. Um make up the rest with acid. Um also from Sargon, spinzall question. How come my normal centrifuge heats up liquids a ton and the non-refrigerated model can't run much more than 30 minutes without starting to cook stuff?
+
+[53:13] And how does the spinzall do it without that? That's a very good question. I like questions like this. Uh so if you look at a centrifuge with swinging buckets, right, what they're doing is swinging a bucket around, and there's a huge amount of uh air resistance. And that air resistance uh it is from friction, and that friction heats everything up.
+
+[53:32] And so it doesn't sound like waving something through the air would heat it up that much, but guess what? It really, really, really does. And so uh almost all of the energy that's being used to maintain the speed of that centrifuge as it's up there isn't really in the bearings, right? Which is where a lot of it, it's in the air resistance that is overcoming. So because it has these giant buckets that are swinging around, that's what's heating it up.
+
+[53:57] And it heats up substantially, like 20, 30 Celsius uh over the course of a long run. That's crazy, which is why I only ever used to buy refrigerated centrifuges, because hey, I'm no chump, right? And so you use a refrigerated centrifuge and you can take care of that, but you need a decent sized refrigerator to make up for the fact that you're dumping all this energy in the form of uh air resistance. A tube centrifuge has that okay, so a tube centrifuge where the tubes are entirely captive inside of an aluminum rotor does not have this problem. And the spin zone doesn't have this problem.
+
+[54:26] Well, they still have a little bit of a problem because there's just nothing to catch the air, right? So a spinzall rotor, when you look at it, right? There's it's very aerodynamic. So it's not, doesn't have a lot of air resistance, much less friction. Less friction, less problem.
+
+[54:41] More friction we come across, the more problems we see. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Dave Kleiman, overcooked pork rib souvie with a little bit too much koji.
+
+[54:50] Take on that powdery, bromulated, sort of unpleasant texture. Before I touch the whole batch, is there anything good I can make from all this? Ugh. I don't know, man. Uh you know what?
+
+[55:00] Croquettes. Croquettes. Grind that crap up, make croquettes. Everybody loves croquettes. I was gonna say, just go all the way.
+
+[55:09] More code, more koji, salt, water, make a garage. Make a what? A garrow. A gearing. Oh, well, that's mean that's that's a sauce.
+
+[55:21] You know, I mean, that's that's a whole different. I mean, like, you want to use a cook stuff like it's too shreddy. I don't like stuff when it's overdone. You could do, I would say, like, the question is how fibery is it? I don't know if you can make like uh pork floss from stuff that's already been cooked that hard.
+
+[55:36] Probably maybe maybe I uh can I make a little can I make you a little uh a little what's it called? I buy my pork floss. I don't make it, I don't make my own salmon floss, I don't make my own pork floss. Because I live in an area where I can walk less than 10 minutes and buy giant tubs of pork floss for almost nothing, and it's delicious. Just the right amount of sugar.
+
+[56:02] Just the spices I like, so I don't make it. You know what I mean? Totally, yeah. Um Patrick writes in. Uh, did they give a recipe for Maine rather than Boston baked beans on a previous episode?
+
+[56:19] If choose I don't know they did. I think you didn't. Maybe I did. I can get another one. We'll put it up on the Patreon.
+
+[56:25] I'll talk, we'll talk beans. Uh, if choosing between soldier Marfax or Yellow Eye, what direction do you suggest? Okay, listen. I mean, it's it's six and one, twelve of the other, right? So, like, they're all different.
+
+[56:37] I like Soldier a lot. I also like yellow eye. Marfax are different. So if you have access to Marfax and you haven't cooked them before, get some Marfax just because it's a different texture bean than the other ones. It stays really firm even after you've cooked it for like a long time.
+
+[56:53] Uh, I like Marfax. Um, but Marfax is the most regional of those beans. So, like yellow eyes, you can get other places. Uh, you know, um soldier beans, you can get other places. Jacob's cattle beans, you can get other places.
+
+[57:09] But um Marfax is really just in Maine. So if you want to go like super local and even piss off a bunch of Maine people who don't use it, who aren't from the area of Maine where it's from, go Morfax. And everyone wants to do that, right? I get it. Yeah.
+
+[57:22] Um I have some beans. Uh I've been having a problem. My beans got a little hot. And so now they're taking a long time to cook. Irritates the hell out of me.
+
+[57:32] You're familiar with this with persistent hardening in beans? No. So for those of you that have beans, I mean, you know, Steve Rancho Gordo will tell you that uh you don't want to keep your beans too long. But if you live, if you keep your beans in a in a hot situation, especially with humidity. They develop what's called uh kind of persistent hardness, where the pectin is actually reinforced and they won't get soft.
+
+[57:58] And that's when you need to start doping baking soda in even if you have uh, you know, really soft water like like we do here in the States uh in in uh New York. Anyway. Or finish your question, but I have one thing to say before. Well, I'll say it now. Uh for all the Patreon members, Edward just got back to me about a cooking issues listener discount that I just posted on the Patreon and the Discord.
+
+[58:19] It's 15% off uh orders of $225 or more. And yeah, he's got great products again. So go check his site out, EdwardsHemeats.com. And again, everything is in a post on the Patreon. Andrew Cummings writes in Jackie's post about getting a vacu uh based on Jackie's post about getting a vacuum sealer, it'd be interesting to hear what Dave thinks about his old blog post regarding low-temp cooking.
+
+[58:38] Still pretty accurate, or we change some things now that he's had many years experience. Uh both. Uh they are still fairly accurate, but I think uh the thing that I do now a lot more than I did is drop the temperature. I understand a lot more now about uh the drift that proteins have over long periods of time at a particular temperature. So I drop temperature for my soak.
+
+[59:00] Um if if that makes sense what I'm talking about. When I'm so when I say soak, I mean soak at a temperature. Um but I s but everything on there still, I think pretty accurate. Let me know if it's not, and then I'll we'll rant on it one way or the other. I'll either me a culpa and just mention what kind of a butthead I am, which is a known fact, or I will say no, I'll I'm still right, like Schopenhauer, who wrote two books.
+
+[59:19] Hey, research. Uh, you know what, Quinn, man? Seriously. Uh Jonathan Oberhouse, what are Day's thoughts on adding eggs to pie dough? Pros, cons worth doing.
+
+[59:27] I have not tried it. I don't so here's why I don't want to no one wants a pie dough tough, and I think the proteins are just gonna toughen it up. Uh I wouldn't do it, but I'll do some research. Quinn, put that back on. I'll do some research about why people think uh I mean, I ain't putting I ain't putting eggs in a pie dough.
+
+[59:42] You put an egg egg yolks, maybe. No whites. No, hell no. Um what do I have? Oh mmm.
+
+[59:52] All right. John R. S. on Instagram had an EC thing, but I think we've already talked enough about EC. So next week it's burgers, burgers, burgers, burgers, burgers, burgers, burgers.
+
+[1:00:00] Write in your questions for burgers, cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave, our owner host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan at Rockefeller Center, News Stand Studios, New York City. Joined as usual with uh John standing behind me. How are you doing? Doing great, thanks.
+
+[0:22] Yeah, everything good? Yeah, everything's good. Yeah? Yeah. Got uh Joe Hazen rocking the panels over here.
+
+[0:27] Hey, how are you guys doing? Good. Full house. Good. Full house.
+
+[0:30] Yeah, yeah. Uh up in the upper, upper, upper West City, West West, we got Quinn holding it down. How you doing? Everything good? Good.
+
+[0:37] Yeah? We got uh Mr. Molecules with us today. Yes, sir. Hey Jack.
+
+[0:42] How you doing? Where are you? Where are you today? Back in LA. Uh, you love LA.
+
+[0:47] You love it. You happy to be back home. I am. I'm yeah, having a great time back here. You sound like you're having a great time.
+
+[0:55] You sound freaking. The Merlot drinker or a different one? Just messing with you guys. Just no messing with you, Dave. A good girlfriend.
+
+[1:07] Oh, snap. Uh, and of course, last but certainly not least, Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing? Good. How are you?
+
+[1:17] Doing well, doing well. You're also uh over there on the other coast. No, I'm in Connecticut right now. Oh, you're okay? All right, good, good.
+
+[1:24] We're hold we're we're we're I like I like us to be East Coast heavy. I like I like us to weigh down on the East Coast side. So it's good, good. Nice, nice to have you back. Um today's uh special guest is of course the one, the only the burger scholar, George Motes.
+
+[1:40] How you doing? I'm doing great. How are you doing? Doing well. Thanks for having me.
+
+[1:43] Yeah, hey, well, thanks for coming on. Coming on to uh because you have a re-release of your The Great American Burger Book. And right? Yes. Yeah, and we extended uh revised everything.
+
+[1:54] Right. We c we clowned you a little bit last week by because my wife like was like, the Great American Burger Book from the guy that wrote like the what was the what was the other one called Hamburger America? Hamburg America. Which was based on the documentary, I guess, right? Exactly.
+
+[2:08] I was like, maybe the guy likes burgers. I'm like, no. No. No, no. No, he does not.
+
+[2:14] But uh this is the portion of the show where we just shoot the breeze a little bit about uh anything we've had last week. So have you had anything interesting to eat or uh any culinary adventures in the past week? Ooh, yeah. I mean, I just went to the uh what did I just I just did the uh friends and family for Roscioli, the new uh that's opening up downtown. He's nodding over there.
+
+[2:31] I see that. Yeah, yeah. Actually, I don't think I'm not allowed to talk about that, I don't think, because it was a super, super private, super secret party. Well, you probably can't say anything about it, but you could say whether you had a good time or not. I had a great time.
+
+[2:40] All right, there you go. There you go. The food was fantastic. And the wine was even better. Put it that way.
+
+[2:45] Yeah. All right. Wow. So that was last night. Yeah now the chef's mad.
+
+[2:50] Hey, the food was good, but the wine better. I I ate so much food, I eat everything. I had hot dogs. I was in Maine last week eating lobster rolls. Oh, yeah, we were just before you came on there.
+
+[3:01] But you had a hot lobster roll in Maine, thank Christ. Thank God I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right, all right.
+
+[3:07] You know, I'm a fan of the hot, I'm a fan of the hot, butter only. Uh first of all, let me just say this. I love mayonnaise. Like I love No, I've I think mayonnaise is one of the greatest inventions in food. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[3:20] At my last bar, we had a mayonnaise program where we we all different kinds of flavored mayonnaise. Oh, awesome. And you know, we're gonna talk about it later. I probably add nauseum, but like I'm fine with the thousand island alike, but there are many other mayonnaise variants on earth to make other than just ketchup mayo and some chopped up pickles, right? Exactly, yeah.
+
+[3:39] Absolutely. I mean, you can do go anywhere with I'm as long as you have a mayo base and you have a mayo base sauce, you're going anywhere, really. That's right. And or just mayo. Because you know what mayo is?
+
+[3:48] Mayo is the oil that you can spread. Exactly. I mean, when you go to a fry shop in Belgium, you got like 50 different types of mayo. You can get it. Oh my god.
+
+[3:54] That Michelin star dude in uh in Ghent. I forget the dude's name, but his mayo program is is great, and his fries are super on point. No one should say that they know about French fries unless they go to Belgium and just eat around at some of the best fry shops there. Because it's kind of like saying you grew up in an area that only used Mr. Coffey's to make coffee.
+
+[4:22] You're like, I know everything there is to know about coffee. I know what it should taste like. Yeah. I know what else else is there to know. You know what I mean?
+
+[4:30] Like, I'm not even I'm not even a fry guy. I'm a hamburger guy, but I'm definitely not a fry guy. I have not had enough good fries in my life to say that I like fries. Put it that way. Yeah, you know who doesn't like fries?
+
+[4:41] Who? Anastasia. She do you did you I'm with her. Did you used to like them, but you hated them because I like them so much, Stas, or what? No, I I don't hate them.
+
+[4:52] I just don't like to order them. What about rings? No. Do you know what there's a recipe for in this book? Is the the basket rings.
+
+[5:03] Well, I don't know what you call them. You call them something else. The basket of rings, like they used to get at like old steakhouses where it's just a little bit of flour, super finely shredded and like fried and like real greasy and piled high. Onion fried nest, basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[5:15] I love that. Yeah. Oh, I do too. It's a great way to use leftover onions, throw them in some batter, throw them into not even battery, just you just uh uh bread them or fla flour them, I think in the book. I have it flowered and oil done.
+
+[5:26] Yeah. That used to be something that you got more. I feel like that's something that kind of went by the wayside. Yeah. That's very true.
+
+[5:29] Unfortunately, I think it screwed up a lot of fryers, and you had to have a dedicated fryer just for that in the kitchen, unless you were really selling a lot, like say like the palm steakhouse, you did there's no reason to actually keep keep those on the menu, I don't think. Tony Romas. Tony Roma's. Oh, they that's right. Do you know I've I've never been to a Tony Romas?
+
+[5:46] I I have. I have not. They do, they have they have the frizzled uh onions. I forgot about that. Where are they in the pantheon of chain uh chain kind of steaky, meaty restaurants?
+
+[5:57] I'm not gonna comment on that one. All right. All right. Like above a tads. Oh, tad remember Tad's Days?
+
+[6:06] I do. Are they still around now? I never could go in because, you know, over near Times Square, I was like, this is dicey. No, Tad Tads was horrible. But I mean they were they served a purpose, but they were not, I mean, they were, you know.
+
+[6:16] They're like they're like a giant one millimeter thick steak, two bucks. You're like, what? That can't be possible. I don't yeah, no, no. I used to go to Fresca Tortilla next door because their meat, their like beef, uh they had they made those fresh flour tortilla.
+
+[6:30] You ever go to a fresca tortilla? No. Oh my god. They were I forget the nationality of the people who had it. They were not uh they were not of Mexican extraction.
+
+[6:39] But they had worked at a place and kind of got into this kind of fresh flour tortilla machine. And so they had this thing, they were churning out flesh fresh flour tortillas, and then they would just make like this like uh like steak mix that went in it, and that was like the lunch for two bucks in the 90s. Like uh in the I, you know, I lived in that kind of Times Squarey kind of area. And uh yeah, and they there was a Tad's right near it, and I was like, no, I'm gonna go f I'm gonna go to Fresco tortilla, and you know, always a line, always fast, always delicious. How about Blarney stone?
+
+[7:11] Remember the Barney stone? Oh yeah. I never used to go, but I yes. Oh, yeah those are good those are good just a bunch of boiled meats out in the middle of the room fantastic yeah yeah like a boil well we're gonna get into boiled mates a little bit later in the uh in the program so uh what about what about you guys uh what about uh what about on the West Coast anything interesting happened in the past uh week culinarily uh either in Vancouver Island or uh in LA for me uh not burger related but I I'm cooking my way through the session one cookbook right if you should done last yeah you know we should have if she's ever in New York we should have her on the show she's a friend of Harold McGee and her work is just really good you know oh man the recipes are good too we made this um dry this numbing and hot dried beef which was very complicated but worth it how it came out well yeah you like boil it twice and blanch it and deep fry it and then cook it in its own um stock from earlier and it takes forever but it was damn good. So when you said cooking your way through you've now put the song working my way back to you babe in my head and all I can think is the burning love inside and that's all I'm gonna be able to think of for the entire rest of the show.
+
+[8:19] So thanks Jack appreciate it. Yeah you're welcome. I appreciate it. Yeah uh Quinn you got anything uh yeah we did a little Father's Day celebration which was an interesting mix of local fresh seafood and Indian takeout. So we did like a little oyster bar, some stir fried spot bronze and then we got uh Sabin becoming uh graphlex in process.
+
+[8:51] All right. Well, I I like Gravlocks. Yeah. I'm I'm training Booker to cure his own salmon. Uh because, you know, I don't expect him to be rich and he likes cured salmon.
+
+[9:02] And so the last time I got a side of salmon, uh, he was like, Dad, can you cause we when we cure it, we skin it first because he's not gonna be a Rust and daughter style sli a slicer, right? And plus we don't have room in the fridge for a whole side to cure, so we skin it and break it into belly and loin. And then and he's like, I told him how to skin it and all that, and then I walked away and I came back and it was mutilated. But he ate it all anyway. So, like, you know, like look, to butcher a fish, to like to learn to butcher a fish, you gotta butcher a few fish.
+
+[9:36] You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, yeah. So anyway, good stuff. Uh what about you, Stas? You got anything from the Great State of Connecticut?
+
+[9:44] We're about to go into Connecticut tears, so yeah. Uh no, no, nothing, nothing cooking wise. No, no. Something not cooking wise that you want to share. That's you think my channel.
+
+[9:57] I guess that's my God, I'm so sorry. Are they gonna do all are they gonna do all four or two or what? That's the bottom. Okay, listen. Can I listen, listen?
+
+[10:08] They did that to me, and then I waited fifteen years to get the other ones out because it was such a freaking nightmare. Oh, well, I shouldn't be telling you. It's great. It's not a problem. Listen, it's the i i it's there's no problem.
+
+[10:21] It's gonna be no problem. I told you, you we've had this discussion. My teeth are like tiny corkscrews that are like burred into my head so that whenever an oral surgeon has to take a tooth out of me, like they have to plant their knee in my face and freaking jerk on it. You know what I mean? And like, you know, there's always blood all over their faces, all over their masks.
+
+[10:40] It's always a nightmare. I'm sure your teeth are not nearly as obstinate as mine, and it'll be fine. You're gonna have a gray surgery. Oh, it's gonna be great. I think you're you're getting the good stuff though, right?
+
+[10:44] You're not I I remember we had this discussion. I was like, don't just get the Novicane, have them make you loopy. I think I'm going semi-under. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, loopy.
+
+[11:01] All you need's loopy. The IV Valium. Do you need to not care? You just need to not care. That's the important part.
+
+[11:08] Yeah. I've always cared. And then, like I say, like I have this habit of having the oral surgeon somehow get mad at me that my tooth doesn't want to come out, like I wheeled it into my freaking head. You know? Anyway.
+
+[11:22] Well, I just had root canal. And this is the cheese. But it's not just, it's also this the smell of the and it's also the sound. So there's like a multi-sensory experience when you're when you're at the dentist, unfortunately. Sorry, I didn't mean to harp on that more, but it's true.
+
+[11:37] So are you it's like I have a thing, the sound of that high-pitched thing, and then when the vibrations in your head when like a drill or something hits you, it's it's kind of not okay. Not okay. No, it's not okay. Of course, the t the doctor will always say to me that no what are you eating? Like, oh what do you like to know?
+
+[11:53] Vegetables. Everything literally everything. Well, you say in the intro, was that you that no, no. Or is that Zimmerman's uh thing where he was like, I like vegetables. Do you ever admit to liking vegetables?
+
+[12:02] Oh, I love vegetables, yeah. Vegetables are a necessary thing for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, better than the alternative.
+
+[12:09] What? Fruit? Dying young. Yeah. Well, all right.
+
+[12:15] My health is important. Yeah. Uh yeah. Um, okay. So we have a bunch of questions.
+
+[12:22] First of all, let me ask you this little you history. So uh I remember seeing the the original uh documentary, Hamburger America way back in and learned many things that I have not. In fact, can I tell you something? So, like for those of you that don't know, is that how you got into the burger, or did you do it because you love burgers? That was it, the film the OG film Hamburg America was the reason that that started this whole journey.
+
+[12:45] Right, because you were like you were working in in film and like in like production, right? Yeah, I was uh union uh director of photography for many years. Right. So you're like, oh no burgers, interesting American story. Let me research this.
+
+[12:56] Maybe I there's something there. Is that what happened? Basically, I was trying to find a subject uh for a documentary. And I ended up getting on the road and doing I've traveled a lot uh for filming for you know for shooting TV commercials and and and films and that sort of thing. And then would go out on the road and say, guys, I'm gonna go over here and look at this hamburger spot, sort of bringing a camera with me and then recording some of these hamburger moments, interviews, and it ended up as hamburger America, the film.
+
+[13:17] Oh, wait, so you didn't get money to go do that? You were doing that on the side. On my own, yeah. Oh man. Self-funded.
+
+[13:22] Were you stealing like the sound person's freaking equipment? We did. I l I did everything, literally. I didn't do the interviews. I because I wanted to focus on everything else.
+
+[13:30] So I had friends of mine who were reporters in different towns around America and had them like actually conduct the interviews with my questions. Right, but you're but your case, your voice isn't in it. Your literal voice is and you have like the most amazing radio voice. Oh, thank you. I knew I wanted to focus on the people who were in the in the in the uh restaurants.
+
+[13:45] You know, that was more important. And mostly just pr pretty much the owners and people telling burger stories. To me, you know, the there it was equally about people who made the burgers as well as these crazy burgers that were in the film. Well, if you ever redo it, though, you gotta get that gravelly Casey Caseum action going. It's like gravelly Casey Caseum is what I'm hearing.
+
+[13:59] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was a huge fan, I'm still a huge fan of uh Errol Morris. And he made a film called it was called uh Vernon, Florida. Oh, yeah, yeah. Where you don't he's he's not in the film, which is everyone telling stories about the weird, weirdo stories about Vernon, Florida.
+
+[14:12] And so I was trying to model the film after that. There's a sort of a a Vernon uh Vernon Florida-esque kind of version of Hamburger America. All right, so then you do this thing, and then you become hamburger guy. I started getting asked my opinion about hamburgers, and people said, Well, you know what you're talking about. You you made a film about hamburgers.
+
+[14:28] No, I'm a filmmaker. I don't know. You you so they the press, the media turned me into this hamburger expert. They would call me out of like CNN called, oh, we need you to put a hamburger expert. Okay, fine.
+
+[14:37] So I went in and talk about hamburgers. And then eventually it became a book called Hamburger America, a guidebook to hamburgers in America. That became expanded twice, twice or three times, and then we made a cookbook, made a TV show called Burgerland, it just kept getting bigger and bigger. So yeah, at this point, I I can call myself a hamburger expert officially. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[14:54] Well, I I should think so. Also, yeah. Also, most people who say they're an expert in something really aren't at all. Yeah. Exactly.
+
+[15:00] So what I can't. I I push back for years. I know a lot about hamburgers. No, you're an expert. No, I'm not sure.
+
+[15:04] Yeah. Well, who else would you ask the question of, though? Once once there's no one else that you would ask other than yourself, then you're the expert. That's right. You know what I mean?
+
+[15:13] When you start to go Google things about hamburgers and I come back with my information. Oh, damn it. Yeah, or when someone gives you some garbage off of Google and you're like incorrect. That's when you're like, oh yeah, I'm the expert in this. That's right.
+
+[15:24] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh all right, all right. So uh going back to that, there is something in uh in that documentary that has stuck with me. This is almost 20 years old now.
+
+[15:36] Um that is stuck with me for the 20 years. That mentally I bring up, and it's actually about it's a it's about one of the places that we're gonna talk about. We're gonna talk about Connecticut Burgers. There's not a lot of there's only one Connecticut burger in this burger book. Shameful.
+
+[15:53] No, no. You only put Well, you mentioned a bunch. No, but you in the in in this book, you only talk about the steamed cheeseburger from Ted's. Oh, yeah, I'm sorry, yeah. Yeah, right.
+
+[16:02] Yeah, you do Louis and you do all that stuff again. There's many. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh but uh so Louis Lunch, you know, for those of you that haven't ever heard me go off on it before, is a small like building in New Haven that got moved once, and it used to literally only be open for lunch.
+
+[16:23] Like when I was it at Yale, it was only open for lunch. And now it's open until 1 a.m. Although listen, if any of you go to Louie's lunch and there and you think you're gonna go there at 1 a.m. and get a burger, you're not. They have run out of meat.
+
+[16:37] They have run out of meat. And I'm like, yo, you make one thing, buy more meat. And it's the same guy. It's the freaking grandson who's there, not apologetic at all. I'm like, I couldn't get here before like 12 30.
+
+[16:51] Sorry. Yeah. Out of meat. Out of meat. Should have gotten here earlier.
+
+[16:55] Come here tomorrow. But he's not open tomorrow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's never open tomorrow. We're open for an hour and a half tomorrow.
+
+[17:01] Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's ridiculous. Anyway. So and for those of you that don't know, like they have these vertical crematoriums that they cook their hamburgers in, and then this weird white vertical toaster, and it's all it's very legit. Do you like their burger?
+
+[17:15] I actually do. Uh it's a very straightforward uh pared-down burger. I mean, it's basically a patty melt, uh, sort of. I mean, it's a very no squish. But they're not squish, but there's cheese on there and it's served on bread on too.
+
+[17:27] Yeah. It's but it's whiz, yeah. Yeah. Oh, some yeah, some version of whiz, I think. Well, well, so you in the book you make a very big distinction between uh what you call cold pack cheddar and cheese whiz.
+
+[17:36] Absolutely. Yes. And you are not a cheese whiz man, you are a cold pack cheddar man. Oh, I love cold patch cheddar. Yeah.
+
+[17:42] I mean, but cheese whiz has its place, does its thing, and and it does not do that thing in the Midwest for sure. That's that's all for cold pack cheddar. Well you made me feel bad because sometimes like at home, I I bought a thing at Cheese Wiz once because Dax was like, We're gonna do burgers. I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna whiz these.
+
+[17:58] And I had it on on the bread, right? Because you're like, because I that's what I figured Louise uses, but I don't know whether they use whiz or whether they use cold pack. I don't know. Something something between, maybe we don't know. I think it's probably closer to the whiz, I think.
+
+[18:08] I mean, if you go to Philadelphia, it's all about the whiz. You ever you ever done the port wine on it? No. I I maybe I did by accident once, but no, I usually stay away from that. Yeah, the poor wine cheese, you know what I'm talking about?
+
+[18:17] Oh, I know, yeah, of course. That's also, by the way, cold pack cheddar. Yeah. But you've never used it on a burgers, do you? I use regular, you know, good old murked cheddar.
+
+[18:24] Yeah, yeah. Well, can you can you buy that here in New York? Yeah. Which merked? Yeah.
+
+[18:28] Uh the only place you can actually get it, believe it or not, is Walmart on Long Island in New Jersey. Huh. Weird. I don't know why. Yeah.
+
+[18:34] That's like you can only get a good like Rochester hot dogs at Wegmans. Right. Well, Wegmans up. They're from that area. From out there.
+
+[18:42] Tweigles. They're a good hot dog. Swiggles are a good hot dog. Yeah. And now John here is a Connecticut man, so he's like, it's gotta be humble.
+
+[18:48] Although there's a lot of other Connecticut brands of hot dogs, my friend. That's true. That's true. I didn't need to branch out. So what stuck so vertical toaster, and they used to have a sign in the in Louie's launch that said, This is not Burger King.
+
+[18:59] You do not get it your way. It's still there. Yeah. And uh good to know. Uh and it was on Xerox paper in the 90s.
+
+[19:06] You know what I mean? I'm sure it's the same sheet of Xerox paper. Yeah. Uh so both the the w the wife, now the mom, I'm sure long dead because she was She unfortunately passed, yes. Yeah.
+
+[19:17] And and the dad, who's the second generation, yeah, not the grandfather, said in your film that they have never had. Well, she hasn't had a burger since she married into the family anywhere else. So since like fifth 1951. And he in his entire of his life had never had a burger other than the Louise Lunch Burger. And this has stuck in my head as like a weird phenomenon that you get with like uh certain groups of people who don't ever want to taste outside of their own world, even to see what's out there, because they're so resistant to a certain kind of change that it's almost like they'd be polluting their bodies.
+
+[20:02] And it's the direct antithesis of everything that I believe as a cook. Right, right. You know, I mean, our generation and the generations younger than us, we're all taught go eat as much as possible, taste, learn. But you get certain pizza heads, old school pizza heads, not new ones. New pizza heads are all about tasting, right?
+
+[20:19] But old school burger heads, um, yeah, they would rather die than eat somebody else's product. And that one interview stuck me over 20 years. I think about it still. I'm like, what the hell? I couldn't believe it.
+
+[20:30] I mean, when I heard it, I thought to myself, that that can't be right. Right. But I guess it can be. If they I mean, I think his argument was that he was too busy working to go try other burger. Which is a lie because they used to be closed by noon every freaking day.
+
+[20:41] And closed for the entire month of August. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no time for a burger. Yeah. And the wife was like, so uh I went to McDonald's, but I had a filet of fish.
+
+[20:51] Sure you did. Sure you did. She probably did. I believe I believe Lee. Leona Leona Lasson was her name.
+
+[20:57] That she had she had uh painted on eyebrows. Oh, I like that. Yeah. That used to be a thing. I know, it's like definitely a thing.
+
+[21:02] Yeah, my grandparents' generation, like, let me shave off and then repaint. Yeah. All all all Lee did was was work for the company, work for the burger joint. It was amazing. That's all she did.
+
+[21:12] She was so hyper-focused all the time. Yeah. She said she would bring her it's a good thing. She would bring the kids when they were kids uh to the restaurant and they would help out when they were old enough, but when they were little babies, they would just sit in the back. Because she was so dedicated to the to the place.
+
+[21:24] Now, do you like the crappy slice of tomato they put on that with the piece of onion? And the miscut onion? What about the miscut onion? Miscut onion I'm okay with. But there's a trick though.
+
+[21:33] If you go there certain times of the day, they'll actually put the onion in the grill and cook it with the burger. Oh. But if you go there like lunchtime, they're like, nope, not doing that, sorry. And then just stick it on cold. Yeah, I've never had it that way.
+
+[21:43] I've always had the it's like lopsided cut. Yeah. Like the person cutting it like wasn't even looking. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[21:49] It's like a wedge. Yeah. Yeah. And uh and the the terrible quality tomato. Yeah.
+
+[21:56] White bread, whiz. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. But it's good.
+
+[22:00] Yeah. But but it's an American classic somehow, right? Yeah. It's always it's always diagonal cut across the across the bread. Yeah.
+
+[22:05] With the with the with the juice coming out of the it's a relatively thick patty for it for its for its weight, it is relatively thick. Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. But it's also very lean. It's not a lot of fat in there, too. Yeah.
+
+[22:14] It's something I have a little bit of an issue with. So the all the fat is coming actually from the whiz. Hence whiz. Hence the whiz, yeah. Hence whiz.
+
+[22:22] Uh all right. So maybe we should. We have people ask us questions. So why don't we get to those before? Because otherwise I would just sit here and talk to you about Connecticut Burger.
+
+[22:31] You talk about Ted's, which is a great burger place. Right. I was there last week also. Oh yeah? Yeah.
+
+[22:35] Grabbing through. On my way back from getting lobster rolls. I have a burger tender as you have a burger tender. Yes. Yeah.
+
+[22:40] You have one. Of course. Come on. Sorry. Freaking amateurs here.
+
+[22:44] You think you're coming on an amateur show? Yeah, exactly. I guess I was. No. That's great.
+
+[22:49] I have the new style though with the yellow Ultham steaming trays. Ooh. So for those of you that don't know what the hell we're talking about, steam cheeseburgers, I'm not a I'm okay with a steamed cheeseburger. I love the cheese. Yeah.
+
+[22:59] To me, it's the cheese. And so, like, you can buy people, if you don't want to spend the money on the really nice little like burger tender steaming contraption, you can buy just the steam containers that are the exact right size for both either the burger or the cheese. Right. Or you can look at the recipe in the book and do none of that. And you well, you use ramekins.
+
+[23:23] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of ways to get around that. But you your burgers aren't square though.
+
+[23:27] Doesn't matter. It's gotta be square. They could they well, square is weird to me. I thought that was very strange, you know? It is strange, but that's part of the Connecticut thing.
+
+[23:34] Exactly. The butt is round. Why why wouldn't you want to have a round burger? So Connecticut, I think is the Connecticut's bringing the Kaiser back because Connecticut Kaiser rolls are better. So you're grew up in New York.
+
+[23:46] Yeah. We look like we're similar ages. Right. And it when we were kids, the buttered roll was the the I don't have money, I need something to eat. You get from a stand buttered roll, Kaiser, a hundred percent of the time.
+
+[23:59] But wait, poppy seat or not? Uh depending on the stand, I like poppy rolls. Long island where I grew up, 100% poppy seat. 100% poppy. 100%.
+
+[24:06] Yeah. But then something happened and Kaisers got crappy. And then they they got stale, they got crappy. I don't know whether people stopped ordering them. And then I stopped ordering because I was like, this is crappy.
+
+[24:17] Like it's not like the butter roll used to be. Yeah. Because that was the cheap eat. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[24:24] Yeah, but it was a butter roll. That's all it was. It cost a dollar. You could walk into a gas station. You can put it at a gas station for a dollar.
+
+[24:29] Yeah. And you know, later in the day, if you had a little bit extra money from the hot dog place, you didn't get a hot dog. You got the the the hot beef. Remember the uh beef sausage, the spicy beef sausage that they used to sell? They were bigger than they were bigger than the hot dog than the Sabret Hot Dogs, and they only cost like 10 cents more.
+
+[24:44] Ooh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With the onion goop. Oh, with the onion goop. Or you an onion goop, or I mean, like, because I don't really like their crap, but onion goop, I used to love the onion goop.
+
+[24:52] I'm not I I like onion goop. Again, yeah. Again, you're not a hot dog guy, so we're not gonna we're not gonna be talking about hot dogs. But the Kaiser roll in in I've you know the past like ten years, I've been going to these places in Connecticut, and I was like, they have actually legitimately good Kaiser rolls. And I'm like, I think the Kaiser roll needs more of a national resurgence.
+
+[25:08] What are your thoughts on the casual one? I agree. I would like to see so we have something called the uh breakfast special on Long Island. Getting it going even on a further further tangent, but it involves the poppy seed Kaiser roll, and they're fantastic. The there's nothing like a breakfast special.
+
+[25:20] It's nothing more than usually ham or bacon eye ham, uh fried egg and American cheese on a roll with ready for this one? Salt pepper ketchup. All right. So you ask for hammed cheese, salt pepper ketchup, and you guys say one with one thing. Ham H.
+
+[25:33] Ham H is on my ketchup. Uh yeah, no problem. Yeah, yeah. Uh speaking uh okay, so Ted's uh other steamed cheeseburgers I've had have been bad. This is a really good point.
+
+[25:45] Yes. There's a reason why, I think. It's because Ted's makes so many of them that this it becomes an environmental thing. The more burgers you're making in that in the burger steaming contraption, the better it becomes. There's a lot of airborne grease, a lot of airborne burger grease.
+
+[25:58] If you're only making a few of them, then they're not gonna be good. Like if you try to make them at home, they're not as good if you try to make them at home unless you're making like a hundred for a party for a party. They just don't taste the same. And also they're at zero, they're at zero hold time there because they're always coming in and out. Like so the cheese is coming in and out, and like you watched, it has they have a certain amount of rest time before they put the cheese on.
+
+[26:17] Right. The steamed cheese cheese fry is a good call. And yeah. I agree. That's that is a good one.
+
+[26:21] Yeah. Steamed cheese is a very specific thing. And what happens uh scientifically whenever you melt cheese through steam is very unique. Because it's not, it's not this different type different kind of heat. All right.
+
+[26:30] My favorite thing about the steamed cheese is when it's not horrible still, when it becomes taffy. Right. That to me is like the that's like the the sweet point. But I'm the only one in my family who loves it. So like I'll do it.
+
+[26:44] Like I for about a year, whenever I made hamburgers, I would make normal hamburgers, which in my house is bacon grease fried burgers. Right, right. Nice. Uh and I know you're a huge fan of tallow. Do you really think it makes that big of a I always have bacon grease because I just cook bacon.
+
+[26:58] Yeah. But do you think that it actually makes a huge difference to to use beef fat as the because I happen to now have a bunch. Yeah, I mean it's it's the it's the probably the most familiar uh grease uh to the burger itself. Right. It recognizes what's happening because it's all part of the same family.
+
+[27:14] I think it somehow I think obviously every animal is different when you're cooking. If you want to get in the science of this, but when you're you're joining beef fat with a hamburger, you know, obviously it's all in the same family. So somehow I I had this, I guess maybe it's just in my head. I feel like it works better. Because in your mind, you're more like a monk.
+
+[27:30] You're like, beef like that. Basically, yeah. Yeah. I was actually at an event once, and we were late to set up, and we had these brand new griddles that had not been seasoned yet, and I said, Oh, great, this is not gonna work. So I just took a bunch of beef and chucked it on this hot griddle, started chopping it up like I was making a chopped cheese, and rendered all the fat onto this thing, and then scraped it all off, gave it to a nearby dog, and I ended up with the perfect seasoned griddle.
+
+[27:53] And I thought to myself, that's what we should all be doing is seasoning our griddles with the thing we're going to be cooking with. That's also insanity though. Cooking the meat and then giving it to I made this chopped cheese. Hey, phido. You know what I mean?
+
+[28:06] A lot of happy dogs out of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaking of the chopped cheese, because I'm gonna forget otherwise. So, so like, that's the thing that didn't exist when we were kids. Yeah, that exists now.
+
+[28:13] Right. I think that is good. It's not a burger. It's good though. It's not a big, it's in the burger family, for sure.
+
+[28:18] Burgerloid, yeah. Yeah, burger. It's burglar, yeah. It's it's up there. Yeah.
+
+[28:22] It's a great experience. But it's also a very specific experience to Harlem. And it really shouldn't go anywhere else. I mean, there's people in Brooklyn and Bronx who would say that theirs is good. You know what I mean?
+
+[28:34] But it still has to be that style of place, right? Yeah, and I know those guys too. I'm friend, I've I've become friendly with Haji from uh Blue Sky. I forgot what it's called. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[28:42] That's the OG. Yeah, yeah. We actually we did it we I have this thing uh called the food film festival. We actually showed a film about chopped cheese made by director Justin Bolis, and we had Haji come down to the festival and make them. So it was as legitimate as he could possibly be.
+
+[28:56] We weren't trying to make chopped cheese. We had Haji make them. Yeah, nice. And how were they? Delicious?
+
+[29:01] They were fantastic. Yeah. So for him it was effortless. He's just there chopping out, chopping, chopping, like, yeah, whatever. So my favorite term in this whole book, if you get nothing else out of this book, stunt burger.
+
+[29:12] Stunt burgers. You're like, eh, it but it's it's like I don't even know that you ever define it. You're like, this is almost this is not a stunt burger. Looks like a stump burger, it's not a stump burger. Like, this is a stunt burger, stunt burger being bad.
+
+[29:24] Why don't you tell us what a stunt burger is? Well, good or bad, depending. It's if a stunt burger has longevity, if it's been around for some there's some burgers in this book that have been around for a very long time. That Australian monstrosity. Right.
+
+[29:33] So that's exactly. So that has staying power. We know it's been around for a while. We know people actually love it. So therefore, that's a stunt burger that worked and it's okay to be there.
+
+[29:40] What I was talking about, the stunt burgers I don't like are the ones that are just sort of flash in the pan. People are doing literally just for TikTok or Instagram. Yeah. And they're they're jokes. So you're but what about when it's actually a joke like Aki and his steam cheese stuff?
+
+[29:53] Yeah. Sure. Sure. Yeah, the method makes me crazy when people are just trying to get attention. And then with uh especially if it involves the burger.
+
+[29:59] One of my worst, my my least favorite ones, the worst one, is the mac and cheeseburger. Because the photo looks amazing because it's this cheesy pile of mac and cheese, and then there's a burger, juicy, dripping burger underneath. And you what you see is your brain says, oh wow, but you you see them separately. Mac and cheese, burger. You put them in your mouth and they go together, and it's a disaster.
+
+[30:19] It is this should not be happening. Hot pasta should not be in your mouth the same time you're biting into a you know a juicy burger. I'm sure Nastasi agrees with you. Do you agree with them, Nastasia? Yes, I do.
+
+[30:30] Good. But I also I know the guy who invented it, and he said he just did it as a stunt for the restaurant. Is that where the idea of stunt burger came from? That what they him saying it was a stunt? Well, I think they existed before that, but just before that.
+
+[30:42] I mean, this was like the beginning of sort of the Instagram food influencer garbage going on. So, how much do you hate like I stuffed it with foie gras and then I put gold leaf and then I'll yeah, it's it's to me it's usually a nightmare. Yeah, it's not never good, it's never a good thing. You know what I've never had that got very famous, but people said they actually liked it was the uh was the stunt poutine from uh Pied de Couchon where it's like foie gras and all that stuff on it. But I don't think I don't think it's my I don't think it needs it.
+
+[31:07] You don't need it. I bet you loves that stuff? The guy behind me, John. That was very good. I liked it a lot.
+
+[31:14] Poutine as a dish itself, I mean, does not need to be improved, usually. That's the thing. I'm sorry. It's one of those to me, I'd rather you also what happens in the world of burgers, especially for me. I I eat a lot of burgers, and for me, I want to make sure that I have you know, I'm I'm trying and and loving and testing daily beaters, I call them, which basically means something you're gonna go back and get tomorrow, next week.
+
+[31:34] Some burgers that are stunt burgers that have truffle oils and all this crap in it, you're not gonna have it a month from now. You wouldn't even have it once a year. Why would you want to make that burger? Yeah. Just for this for the stunt of it, it doesn't make any sense.
+
+[31:44] To me, I want to make sure I'm I'm experimenting and uh with I'm cooking, or at least going to visit burgers that are daily beaters that are classics that have one or two ingredients that are not huge that you won't eat. I had my lifetime supply of truffle oil in the late 90s to early aughts, and I don't ever need it again. Somebody like dropped some in my elevator the other day, and I was like, oh it's intense. Yeah. I just don't I just don't require it.
+
+[32:10] Like, you know? It it has its place, but it's a very it's very narrow place, unfortunately. Yeah. It doesn't belong in everything. Definitely not on my burger.
+
+[32:17] And not on my elevator. Your elevator floor, that's for sure. One of the places I worked, they garnished the short rib with white truffle oil, and the expo did it, and he had never tasted it, and I just saw him like drown it on it. I was like, stop. Have you ever tasted this?
+
+[32:29] And he's like, No, it need tastes a little bit. And he's like, Oh wow, I've been doing really bad. You know what I like on a burger? You probably hate fish sauce. No, okay.
+
+[32:37] On a burger, it's good. Yeah, I'm sure it is. You don't have to like it, but it's still good. Oh. No, fish sauce is a mummy.
+
+[32:42] I mean, that's it. Yeah, check this. See, we I I wanted to get a professional opinion, and you are a professional. So, like uh in the in in the book, you have a couple of uh secret sauces that uh, you know, you're they're like most secret sauces are thousand island, but then you bring up other people like what the schnack sauce and goop and all these other things. Yeah.
+
+[33:00] So like uh I like a flavored mayonnaise. It's not flavored with the standard. This is one of my favorites. We use this at uh at existing conditions, but not on burgers because we didn't have a burger. This is like I use Indian oil-based pickles as my secret powder pow.
+
+[33:14] Wow. This is this this is by the way, is expired, so you know. Yeah, yeah. Doesn't matter. You're making me taste it like it's expired.
+
+[33:22] And this is let's say, yeah, oh, it's oh no, no, it only expired in 2021. That's fine. That's fine. What is it though? Tomatoes.
+
+[33:29] Is it fermented? Yeah. Wow, okay. So I'm gonna try this if I die. It's very strong.
+
+[33:29] If you die tomorrow, it's on me. It's good, right? Mix that with mayonnaise? Yeah, okay burger. Is it spicy?
+
+[33:42] No, Molly. Mildly spicy. That's pretty well. Where's this from? India.
+
+[33:46] That's intense. Oh, great. I just said Indian food that was expired two years ago. Well, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[33:53] Yeah. John, you've had this before. Yeah, yeah. I had my own jar. Go ahead.
+
+[33:56] Everyone try it. Imagine that with mayonnaise. Actually, we're good. It's very, it's it's intense. Yeah, it's concentrated.
+
+[34:03] I like that. But not goopy. Not goopy, no. And it doesn't loosen the mayonnaise too much. I'm not a sauce guy.
+
+[34:08] I know you said that in the book. To me, grease is a condiment. So talk to me about you as not a sauce guy. You uh you put a little section at the end of your book about non-American burgers, some of them heavily sauced. Talk to me about this Turkish burger.
+
+[34:21] Look, I'm just my my job, I'm a steward to history. I'm just trying to get it right. Get the get the all if they have crazy ingredients. People are eating them all the time. But you've never been there and had it, but you have friends who have, and you've tested this recipe on them, and they say you're getting close to the actual Turkish wet burger.
+
+[34:38] The Islaq burger. Yeah. It's spectacular. And I've made that for friends at parties. I've made it for my family.
+
+[34:43] It is it is a great hamburger experience. And it's soaked in tomato goop. What is it? No, it's basically basically imagine a tomato sauce with way, way too much garlic in it. That's basically that's that's you're on the right path, basically.
+
+[34:55] But it's wet, but you still pick it up. Uh you yeah, you do pick it up. It's wrapped, it's coming uh you it's a street food. You buy it at you know, one o'clock in the morning in Taksim Square in Istanbul. That's where that's where you find pretty much only.
+
+[35:05] It's it's it's uh that's the only spot where it really is. You are also a not a fan of most burgers that require a knife and fork. Right. I think that it should be a handheld experience. I mean, the whole point of a hamburger is to be portable.
+
+[35:14] When the hamburger was born in the US, because it came to the to the U.S. as the um as uh uh ethnic food from Germany, but it was served on a plate with a knife and a fork. And so at some point it did make its way to the Midwest, where it became uh fair food. And the first fair food that was well, we understand one of the very first fair foods that was portable was the hot dog. Yeah.
+
+[35:36] You imagine if you were selling yeah. Imagine if you were if you were, you know, selling this this dish that was this this famous ethnic dish from Germany, but served on a plate, and all of a sudden you saw a hot dog walk by, you'd say, Oh, maybe I okay, we need this needs to be portable. Yeah. And that's how it happened. Well, so now's a good time.
+
+[35:53] Quinn said there came in in a question, the hamburger used to be small and it's gotten bigger, which is something we need to talk about. Quinn, what was the question we got in off the Patreon? Well, yeah, the question from Rob was uh c wanting George's comment on uh the origin of the slider, you know, vis-a-vis white manna versus White Castle or any sort of similar New Jersey versus Ohio. Well, that's pretty simple. Uh they're both actually technically at one point they were identical.
+
+[36:26] White man and and white castle were identical burgers. The only difference was that White Castle began to innovate, they started changing a lot and they started moving towards you know, uh freezing of beef and and um the standardized of standardized buns and all that, uh, and they got away from the what really should be a great burger. The difference is that when White Castle started in 1920, 1921, there were a lot of copycats. And white manna is one of those copycats. So if you imagine white manna just kept doing the same thing all the way through.
+
+[36:54] So it technically, in effect, they are the primary source version of the White Castle slider. So was White Castle, I haven't had one in like 20 years. Are they still they were, in my recollection, kind of like kind of wet and square with like little onion y bits on them? Were they always that way? No.
+
+[37:12] In the beginning, there were actually in the beginning they were like white uh white manna. So round. Yeah. Round, small and griddled, not this weird in-betweener situation. If you were trying to sell a burger in America a hundred years ago, literally a hundred years ago, and you didn't put the word white in the name of your burger place, you weren't gonna sell burger.
+
+[37:30] Because of filth. Because of it was all about purity. It was all about it was a very, you know, hamburgers at that point were seen as dirty, like you know, wage earner food. It wasn't anything that was was you know popular. It wasn't anything that was it wasn't uh it wasn't something that was seen as as clean at all.
+
+[37:43] Yeah, yeah. Proving we've always been bad. Um so uh all right, and also uh, well, before I leave Connecticut entirely, sure. Because John and I, before you know we're going to get a sandwich for a minute, we're like, we're just gonna make this whole show about Connecticut burgers. We're like, it's our show, crap on everyone else.
+
+[38:00] I don't care. I can do this whole show on Connecticut Burgers, you know, without blinking. And so the last one, uh, and I'm you know, not in here, but I want to get your opinion on it. The shady Glenn Bernice uh cheeseburger. Yeah, the Bernice special.
+
+[38:13] Do you know how to make one? Because that's the one burger that I have miserably failed at trying to make at home, even a close representation of the Bernice. So the where you're talking about is the uh it has almost like a cheese crown on top. Yeah, we call it cheese wings in my house. Cheese wings, you call it wings, looks like it looks like a nun's habit.
+
+[38:29] Yeah, flying nun for those of you that area. Yeah, yeah. Sally Field, yeah. Sally Field or Flying Nun hat. Uh it's basically the same look.
+
+[38:36] And uh from what I understand is a scientifically developed cheese. We don't know if it's cheddar American, it could be something between the two. We don't exactly know, but they said that we can't tell you our secrets because it's a secret, obviously. But it's also that the flat top they're cooking on is highly seasoned. And it's I'm pretty sure it's a black steel flat top.
+
+[38:53] So it's nothing that's too complicated and large. And they have to make the they put four slices of cheese centered on the burger, and obviously all this cheese hangs off and they curl up the cheese as it's cooking. And it's one of the things you the first thing you learn when you're when you're on when you're on the griddle and you're young is to is to how to make this Bernie special. Yeah, and it's there's like it it's an exact amount of like freaketizing of bubbling, and then you see them lift it, they hold it for a second, let go, and it sits, and then they they and they're really good at it. Yeah, they're good.
+
+[39:23] Yeah, you don't know you don't even do the cheat all you can also get the cheese crisps separately as a side dish. It's an off menu item. He he lived there, and there's also you they make I guess decent ice cream, although I get my ice cream at Yukon. Yeah, but shading glass ice cream is good. Very good ice cream, very good ice cream and creepy murals.
+
+[39:39] What else do you want? The mural in the wall is beyond creepy. It's weird, phantasmagorical, you know, dream of burgers and ice creams and and little elderly. It's very straight. Yeah, and all the all the people in the place are dressed up in like, you know, 60s, 70s, like Ramada in style, like, you know, service uniforms.
+
+[40:04] It's like a it is a throwback. It is definitely a throwback, yeah. It's it's lost in time. So that's what we think about it. They also have a very good Kaiser roll.
+
+[40:11] So whatever you think of the burger, their Kaiser was on point. Do you like the burger? Do you like the cheese wing? I think it's a great burger. Um it's I wouldn't put it in the top 10, you know, but it's it's more about the experience.
+
+[40:20] It's a great hamburger experience in my book. Yeah. So worth worth if you happen to be near Manchester. I don't know why the heck you would be near Manchester, Connecticut. But if you happen to be near Manchester, it's a drive-thru on the way to Boston.
+
+[40:31] I mean, I guess we're gonna go off the highway. Get some ice cream or whatever, unless you have time to go to Yukon and go to the dairy, the dairy store and get the dairy barn or whatever they call it. All right. Uh Fucci writes in Wait, is this your dad? Yeah.
+
+[40:47] Damn it. You gotta hide it, Quinn. Hide it. Anyway, you don't have to hide it. He's allowed to ask whatever.
+
+[40:53] He's a patron. He's allowed to ask whatever questions he wants, man. Regardless. I'm just messing with you. Come on.
+
+[40:59] Uh question from Mr. Moats. Uh, when is a burger not a burger? And we've talked a little bit about that, but when is a burger not a burger? Well, for starters, a hamburger needs to be defined as chopped beef cooked somehow and served on bread.
+
+[41:14] That's it. That's the definition of a burger. And when you get away from that is when you start to do things like use uh tuna or turkey. Because a turkey burger is not a burger. Don't make turkey burgers.
+
+[41:25] It's a turkey sandwich, yeah. Listen, don't do it. Do you remember what I do? It better not be with turkey burgers because unless you're gonna unless you're gonna low temp those things, unless you're gonna go through all the trouble of low temping it so that it's not an overcooked piece of filth, and then somehow get a nice sear on the outside of it. Like I don't want to hear from a turkey burger, I don't want to hear from a salmon burger.
+
+[41:48] It's not ideal. Yeah, I do a poultry burger of chicken, chicken hearts, and duck fat trimmings. Okay, well, uh ground poultry can be fine, right? Yeah, you know, like I like a chicken patty sandwich. But it sounds more like it, like um like a crab cake to me.
+
+[42:10] Yeah, that's so if you're gonna go salmon, just get a croquette. Just get a croquet. No filler. Well, a good crab cake has very little filler, also. Oh, you just got busted.
+
+[42:18] Um but like but I will say, Quinn, that like the average turkey burger isn't just bad, it's a bad idea. You're taking something that needs to be cooked until it is terrible and then doing that. Right. To be, I mean, to be uh absolutely pure about this, uh hamburg, uh hamburgers came from Hamburg, Germany. That's why they're called hamburgers.
+
+[42:41] They didn't come from shrimp burg. Shrimp burg. Or turkey burg. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[42:44] They came from hamburg. And well, so think about this, right? Also, people who make turkey burgers, no offense to you people out there who make turkey burgers, but people who make turkey burgers typically do it for quote unquote health reasons. So they make the compounding error of using breast meat. And the only way to have a uh uh it not viciously overcooked and yet still get it cooked enough so you're not like, am I gonna get poisoned?
+
+[43:10] Right, is to salt it. And then if you salt it so that it keeps the moisture inside, you're gonna bind the proteins as you make the patty. And then you have dry turkey meatloaf. Not not even a dry turkey burger. Dry turkey meatloaf, which it just gets worse and worse and worse.
+
+[43:27] It's just like the more you think about it, the more now ground, look, ground chick, there's nothing better than a chicken heart. Like when you go to one of those Brazilian places and you get like skewer after skewer after skewer of chicken heart, I can eat that all day. Right, exactly. You know what I mean? But like, and um I will taste your burger if I'm ever there made with the the the chicken heart and the duck fat.
+
+[43:45] But I'm just saying turkey burger, I've never had one I've liked. I I agree. I agree. To me, it's it's I mean, it just shouldn't be in the same category. It should be in the category of the crab cake or or the you know the shrimp sandwich, whatever those things are called.
+
+[43:59] Shrimp cake, shrimp, shrimp pies. I don't know. Shrimp. You know what's good? Seafood salad.
+
+[44:03] See what salad's good, but it's not a burger. It's definitely not a burger, but it it it is good. Well, George, can you say your burger definition one more time? Burger definition. Very very straightforward.
+
+[44:12] It's chopped beef, cooked somehow, served on bread. Period. Okay. Well, so you have things in here you don't consider if it's loose, like that loose meat, not a burger. But I do say in the book, though, the loose meat sandwich is in the hamburger family.
+
+[44:23] Hamburger family. Well, there's a reason why. You take a bite of the loose loose meat sandwich and it has the flavor profile of a hamburger. See, I don't consider a patty melt a hamburger because I consider it a burgerloid because to me it is so important that it is its own thing. This is true.
+
+[44:39] I think it's still it's it's very it's much closer to the burger family than the loose meat sandwich. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not a good thing. Well, loose meat sandwich is only only loosely a sandwich. Right, exactly.
+
+[44:47] Exactly. It's closer to a hamburger. Right. But the patty melt, the patty melt, which by the way, you know, you mentioned that in the original edition that you you allowed yourself some liberties and you go back, is only rye bread. Like I like my the the real question is how cooked do you like your onions?
+
+[45:02] And then Swiss cheese and the hamburger. And like how quite the question is how do you like your onions cooked, right? That that there is debate, no? Oh, yeah. But there's a lot of different ways to slice and cook an onion for sure.
+
+[45:13] But to me, the patty melt is the marriage of a grilled cheese and a hamburger. And so it is it is in both families and it is its own freaking thing. And it's to me, God's it's it's God's thing. Like, but it's also it's also Swiss. Swiss cheese.
+
+[45:27] It's rye bread. I mean, the the flavor profile is very different from an actual hamburger. And I grew up with them, and I didn't know it was an LA thing until I read in the book. Because my mom grew up, you know, outside of LA. Maybe that's why because I grew up with them.
+
+[45:39] Yeah. So you I grew up with something that was called a patty melt by some people. Some people called it a Chester, because it was a guy in my hometown named Chester, who took a hamburger patty when he was 17 years old and put it in between two pieces of uh bread with some American cheese and called it Chester, which actually was we found it later on was actually uh the setup from Friendlies. I don't know if you knew that also. No.
+
+[45:58] So they could they didn't they they don't even call it a patty melt at Friendlies, it's called the setup. Uh huh. And they use those weird flower-shaped burgers still at friendlies? I don't know. Friendlies used to use these very odd flower-shaped burgers, but uh a friend of mine who, well, she lived on my block when I was in high school.
+
+[46:15] She worked at the Friendlies and she told me that the Fribble Fribble is a friendlies uh shake. Now, I'm not saying anything negative about the Friendlies Corporation. This was in 1987, people. All right. So the information I'm giving you is way out of date, but they had a carpenter ant infestation in the Fribble machine in my hometown in the in the 1980s, 1980, you know, whatever it was, four or five.
+
+[46:37] And so like I just stopped going to Friendlies as a result. So it's I haven't had one of those flower-shaped burger things since then. Yeah, I I haven't probably had a burger there in forever. I I've gone there for the Fribble recently, but not for a burger, that's for sure. I'm sure they've kicked the carpenter ant problem where at whatever location you went to.
+
+[46:52] Good. Yeah. I'm I'm pretty sure. Good. Quinn, did we answer this question uh appropriately for your dad or no?
+
+[46:58] Sure, yeah. Yeah. All right. All right. Uh from Justin.
+
+[47:04] Hey George, what's the uh you don't have to answer this, but you know, we want to know, but you don't have to. Sometimes people hate answering this question, right? What a great preamble. Yeah. What's the worst burger you've ever encountered?
+
+[47:13] Ooh. Wow. I've had a lot of bad burgers out there. I don't like to talk about the I don't go negative on burgers ever. I because you're hurting someone's business, maybe.
+
+[47:24] I used to do this thing where I would, you know, if if I tweet on the way in and I don't tweet on the way out, it wasn't any good. That's one of those. But I don't tweet anymore. Changed that's all changed. But usually I don't really talk about burgers I don't like.
+
+[47:36] People know unfortunately there are a lot of bad burgers out there. And I like to like to tell people that, you know, if I'm not talking about it, you know, that's the worst review I can give the damn burgers. So sorry about that. Okay, so what makes a burger bad? Which when you see something, you're like, oh no, to hell with this.
+
+[47:49] What is it? You can tell right away when someone gives you a burger and they they don't have their heart in it. You know, right, yeah, you know, it's like any other food, but it's especially with a hamburger. Hamburgers are relatively easy to make. Yeah, you know, they're that's this is not not much going on there.
+
+[48:02] You've got some ground beef, you've got some bread, you've got some maybe some cheese, maybe a topping or two, and that's it, right? This shouldn't be that complicated. But the reality is that you can screw all those elements up pretty quickly. Overcooking beef is a big way to do it. Using the wrong beef.
+
+[48:14] I mean, people a lot of times we'll use beef that's way too lean, and that makes a dried out crappy burger. You're a truck, you're a chuck fellow. I I like chuck a lot. Yeah. I usually when I cook, I usually 7525 chuck when I cook.
+
+[48:26] If I tell people that you want to err on the side of, you know, not an 80-20, 75-25. I'm a personally, it's 7525 is is is tough to work with sometimes. You have to know what you're doing. It shrinks it shrinks a lot. Yeah, you're cooking it fast.
+
+[48:37] I mean, it's very important to know that the fat content is flavor. Um 8020 is a great place to go. You take if you take an entire chuck of the two parts of a chuck and throw it into a grinder, you can have basically 8020, maybe 7525, depending on how fatty that animal was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[48:53] Yeah. Yeah. You know what I hate? I hate that uh so I hate that the most places that sell uh the beef, they assume that if you want good quality beef, you also want it leaner. Mistake.
+
+[49:04] Right. Anyway. That's kind of changing, I think, these days. Oh uh Wolf writes in, I like how Wolf has only two choices and not like three or four other choices. The quick you must choose between a potato bun or a brioche bun, as my son calls it brioche.
+
+[49:21] That's the Italian version. Yeah, yeah. What do you think? So like there's no question about it. Brioche can suck it as far as I'm concerned.
+
+[49:26] Sorry. Oh, wow. Yeah. Brioche brioche is not the right bun for a burger. Wow.
+
+[49:31] It's too sweet. Usually it's it's almost too soft. I mean it's hard. Too soft. Come on now.
+
+[49:36] You like a squishy bun, yeah, so you say. Well, so I mean, I'm sorry, that it's brioches tend to be a little more aerated. Too poofy. Too poof. Yeah, because I mean, when I mean square you know, white squishy, I mean it's it still has some density to it.
+
+[49:46] Like the potato roll has density to it. It's good. Most most white, you know, white white bread and white rolls, enriched rolls for hamburgers, are great for a burger. Um unfortunately brioche is too sweet. Yeah.
+
+[49:57] Uh it's too poofy. So you also don't like a Hawaiian. I don't like Hawaiian, but no. No, people are using a lot of Hawaiian now for burger. It's just it's too sweet.
+
+[50:05] I like Hawaiian rolls for sure. I just don't like to put burger. So you also know you don't like the the the move of using the the Portuguese sweet roll for uh for a hamburger. I've seen that really. No, I think it should when you when you take a bite of a burger, there should be a the first thing you smell should be a little bit of yeast.
+
+[50:18] English muffin? English muffin, actually, that's a good one. That's a very good that they're very sturdy. And I actually I mean, you know, I grew up on I grew up on the Chester, which was the you know the patty melt version of what we had from you know from Long Island. But also uh I grew up on uh most of the burgers are served were served back then on English muffins.
+
+[50:35] Yeah, I like an English muffin. But they so you you mentioned that you enjoy and you uh you know you invoke uh the uh the the Josh Ozerski from the from the past who had some very interesting, sometimes wildly incorrect, sometimes maddening opinions about things. Oh, yeah. Tell me that. Yeah.
+
+[50:52] Um, but uh a fun guy to hang around with, especially if you were eating meat. But the um the toasting the bun is almost always a good idea, you say. And but uh toast one side only, because you don't want the top side, you don't want the side that you're handling toasted, just the meat side toasted. But you know, but you and in the book you're anti-toaster because you do a lot of griddle and stuff. What about that you don't like the bagel setting?
+
+[51:16] I always use bagel setting. Isn't it cook on one only cooks on one side? Bagel side top only. Yeah. So you like all the new toasters.
+
+[51:24] Put the put the bagel bagel setting on my toaster. That sounds kind of wow. Now I'm a fruit for all of a sudden I'm a frufroo guy. I think you'd rather just, I mean, just take you you're already cooking in a pan. Just cook the.
+
+[51:35] I would I tell people if you're gonna make a bunch of burgers, toast the buns first in the pan, and then cook the burgers in the same pan. One piece of equipment. All right. Also, yeah, but I mean I have it all going at the same time in my house anyway. But anyway, but the other thing is you're like, I can't really taste the seeds.
+
+[51:47] And then you show a picture of a sesame bun with like two sesame on it. Like Sesame seeds, they can't are they are you I mean, really. I mean, we taste them, it's more of a uh textural thing, I think, than it is an actual flavor. Like I use a lot of sesame. Oh, speaking of potato, you know, there's uh now a uh there's a non Martin.
+
+[52:07] So Homer Murray came on the show uh a little while back, and you know, he stopped using Martin's. And so he's now created. I haven't been out to have it yet. I want to have his the new potato roll? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[52:19] He has it, he has uh made to his spec, uh I forget what the name of the bakery is, but yeah, they do the potato. My only issue with potato rolls is that they they go from they go from fully blonde to real brown very quickly. You know what I mean? Like when you're cooking them? Yeah.
+
+[52:34] Like they brown up quick and they can go over in a toaster on bagel setting. Maybe not. Maybe not. I don't have that. I don't I just have uh one setting, it's on.
+
+[52:42] Yeah, all right. Uh Bruce Blinkstein writes in. Seems like there were a ton of burger trends in the last 10 years, more so than then 10 years before that. What does the burger look like over the next 10 years? I believe there's going to be a uh a uh thinning, put it that way, of all those things happening.
+
+[52:59] There's already there's already pushback against stunt burgers. Uh there's already a pushback even against Smash Burgers, which I think is ridiculous. Because Smash Burger, people think that oh, I I was standing next to a guy talking to his girlfriend the other day, and he was or whoever she was, and he was saying, uh, oh, the Smash Burger thing is a it's a trend, it's a new thing. I want to smack the guy. And he doesn't he had no sense of history or uh or any pride about the American hamburger and where that may have come from.
+
+[53:23] And we know at this point it's over a hundred years old for sure. Um so we'll see. I I do believe that the Smash Burger trend will fade, but the Smash Burger itself will stick around. It's been around anyway for a long time. So I've never had your the the Oklahoma style onion smash burger that you have.
+
+[53:39] I've had so many people come to me like have you had George's burger or whatever. I'm like, no. I haven't been to like Yeah, they always do. I've like I've never been to wherever Aspen or wherever you were freaking doing them, like you know, when you first started pushing that crap, because I don't get invited to that anymore. Stuff, good stuff.
+
+[53:53] Come on, man. Or like, but like everyone's like, yeah, yeah. You know, people like food editors, they're like, have you had it? Have you had them? No.
+
+[53:59] So like uh I should I should have it, huh? That to you, that's the money burger. Well, to me, the onions are for pretty much the they are probably the very first condiment. And so to me, I'm not just making this burger because it tastes great, which it does by the way, but it is a bit of a science experiment based on very few ingredients. It's only five ingredients in the burger.
+
+[54:15] It's basically beef, uh, cheese, bun, onion, salt, and that's it. And somehow some weird science, no pepper, some weird science goes on there where the beef fat mixes with the rendered onion onion juice and some thyme. And you Yeah, there it is. I can hear it. Yeah.
+
+[54:30] Time the unit of measure, not time the spice. Right, time unit of measure. Yeah, definitely don't put any time in there. Yeah. But you put in you put in the time to cook it slowly.
+
+[54:38] But not thyme. Not thyme, yeah. Yeah. And it cooks at a very very specific pace. It's slow.
+
+[54:43] It's not a not a fast, not a not like shh shh fast cooking. Well, a lot of the burgers actually, you give timings, and it's interesting. I'm sure they're based on observation of what they're doing, but they're longer than I would expect on a lot of these cases. It's true, yeah. A lot of the the book is based on method, not on toppings.
+
+[54:56] I like to tell people that, you know, this you can buy any burger book out there and it's gonna show you what toppings to put on to make it a Tex Max burger, Hawaiian burger, you know. But the reality is that these are all based on historically seen. Spoiler, George wants you to go out and put pineapple rings on everything. I'm just kidding. I'm just I'm just I'm just affin with you.
+
+[55:12] No. Yeah. Uh okay, so let's do a couple of method things before I, because we're gonna run out of time. I want to rapid fire on some of these other burgers. One, uh like all people who are thinking people, you in general don't salt until the till the very end.
+
+[55:26] But you usually only salt one side, even on like a thing. I've always been a too salt, or when I do like a uh, you know, uh a ball, I'll like kind of roll it in salt right before I smash it, but you only do the one side. Do you not like a salty burger? Do you post salt? You don't salt on the flip either, right?
+
+[55:41] So on your onion burger, it's like you salt, you you salt, no, smash, salt, onion, flip, right? That's what you know, wait, wait. Close. It's usually I put the ball down, salt the ball. Right.
+
+[55:53] And the golf ball size of onion. And then onions on top of that. Yeah. And then I smash the whole thing together. Right.
+
+[55:58] So also what happens is the salt kind of goes around the outside. It ends up in sort of what happens. I make a lot of burgers at a time. Like I'll do an event, I'll make 18 burgers on the griddle at every single, every, every 10, 15 minutes or so. So what happens is that environment becomes salty.
+
+[56:11] Right. It's almost like it's like the steamed cheeseburger. I mean, you have this, you have to have the environment going to make the best burgers. And a little bit of the onions from before get on the next burger? No, no, they're all scraped off.
+
+[56:18] All right. But still, but the the salt duh salt from one patty ends up on the other patty and it all gets mixed up. It's I think it's just sort of a science experiment that works somehow. So right, only salt once. And that's a non-toasted bun, that one.
+
+[56:31] That's exactly right. So I like to call it letting it ride, which is where the burger bun sits on top of the flip patty. Both of them. Both of them on top of each other. Well, it's just so you know where you don't have to lose, you don't lose the bottom somewhere.
+
+[56:40] Right, but you but you say it also helps it. It does help it. Softens up the bottom. Definitely sell both both sides. Um the bottom you don't want to have too soft because it'll fall apart.
+
+[56:48] The top you want to have soft for sure. So you're not toasting it at all. And my burger, I don't toast it. So there's all that beef steam is rising up and it's being stopped by by the bun. Is that your next band?
+
+[56:57] Beef steam? Beef beef steam, yeah. That's that's yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh all right.
+
+[57:01] Another thing I find interesting is that you're a fan of the loose bowl scoop for non-compression reasons, but then you do it even when you're gonna smash the burger. Why? Just more of the monk stuff, more of the just this is the way I do. No, uh d exactly. Maybe it's more of the monk stuff, but it's it's for portioning.
+
+[57:16] So if I'm making a lot, if I'm making a hundred burgers, I want to make sure I've got all they're all the same size. Right. So we but it doesn't actually, in other words, like I'm not damaging the meat by like hard packing if I'm hard packing into a scoop. If I'm doing hard pack draw drop, I'm not gonna, I'm not messing it up if I'm gonna smash it anyway. Define hard.
+
+[57:33] Well, you know, you know what I'm saying? Like if you're giving it to the bigger one. Joshua Zerski used to like worry the hell about it. He either wanted the burgers so freaking loose that they were basically untenable, or he wanted them smashed till they were till they were dead. Exactly.
+
+[57:46] Uh but you uh this I mean, so much has changed and the understanding of how to make a smash burger since then. Right. Love Josh. Josh Josh is a Josh is a good friend of mine. Josh, by the way, he used to have, he told me, he said, I have your your book by my bedside.
+
+[57:59] I read it every night before I go to bed. Yeah. I like that. It's only pictures. I don't know.
+
+[58:04] So uh so another uh question on uh technique about going back to the salt. Anyway, as we've said before, if you salt and if you then mix, you're the devil, right? Obviously, because it turns into meatloaf. Yeah. But you are very careful about not putting salt on to the last minute for it not getting tough, except teriyaki burgers obviously soaked in salt.
+
+[58:23] So how does that taste? Okay, the teraki burger, which is in the book, is I tucked, I like to tell people it's the most difficult, it's the hardest burger to make in the book because it's it involves method and it involves you know making sauces and and marinating, it's very difficult. But again, I'm just again, I'm a steward to history. My job is to make sure we get it raised. You think they taste good?
+
+[58:39] They don't taste like meatloaf, they're not tough. No, no, they're they're not tough because they're marinated. But they're marin. Right. So my point is that can you salt it beforehand as long as you don't manipulate as soon as you manipulate salted meat, yeah, it gets tear it gets anyway.
+
+[58:51] Yeah, I just do it because it's that's the way that they do it. Well, the Cuban uh the the burger from uh Miami with the chorizo spices, interesting. Is that the way they actually do it? They put just the spices, no salt on the inside of the meat, or were you like, oh hell no, I'm not putting any salt on the inside. Do they use actual chorizo?
+
+[59:05] They don't know. They use chorizo spices. So it's paprika and it's garlic. But no salt and salt on the outside. I don't know.
+
+[59:11] I think I did salt on the outside of mine. I'm not sure the salt in the mix. There's not. There's not well in your book. Yeah.
+
+[59:17] Yeah, I I probably tested it it was too much. All right. Now, uh people need a trick to not have burgers stick to the spatula when they do the smash. What is the magic and now onions I'm sure help? But like, for instance, the the uh the fried cheeseburger, is that any good?
+
+[59:32] The grease, the 90-year old grease burger from diet. It's great. Yeah, yeah. It's wonderful. Is it?
+
+[59:36] Yeah. I do I actually it is a great burger. It's a great hamburger experience. Pound it out and then uh dropped into uh, you know, deep into grease. Well, beef beef tellow.
+
+[59:45] Grease on grease on grease. Yeah. Uh I don't know how the heck that doesn't stick to their spatula because they don't have parchment like protection or anything like that. Right. But like I use parchment in my house when I smash because I'm terrified of it sticking to my spatula.
+
+[1:00:00] What what do you got for me? Well the parchment parchment's great if you have a small pan. You can't you have no you have no place to go. If you what I'm saying is if you actually do have a place to go, if you put the spatula on the flat top and you move it around a bit and get it hot and then smash the burger. Because a hot spatula won't stick to the beef.
+
+[1:00:16] Oh, because the grease lubricates it? It's cold on cold. Ah, this is a tip. If you've gotten nothing else out of this show, all right. Now in the next two minutes and thirty seconds, let's go.
+
+[1:00:26] Oh, by the way, next week we have uh the Tropical Standard Crew on for so get your uh get your tropical drink questions in. Uh we're not gonna have time to make fun of Barburton chicken. I apologize, I'm gonna have to ask you these things. Uh okay. Um poach burgers at Pete's Wisconsin.
+
+[1:00:40] Now, you have a recipe for this. For those of you that don't know, I'll give you the real quick. It's a big pan of water with a pile of onions in it, and then you're basically putting you're smashing the burger into the water. Yeah. And so it's like part panned but part poached.
+
+[1:00:54] It good? Oh, fantastic. What if you used like French onion soup mix as your as your poaching base? You'd probably be too salty, but other than the salt, like if you didn't salt it too much. In other words, like well, there's lots of salted onion soup mixes.
+
+[1:01:07] Well, I mean, in other words, what if you made an onion broth? Because it like part of the thing about Pete's is they're making a billion of them a day. So by the time the thing is done, it's onion broth. Yeah, yeah. And you even say the second third's gonna be better, but what about you pre-make it?
+
+[1:01:18] Yeah. I want you to drank some hot dog water. Fantastic. Tastes like hot dogs. It's like hot dogs, right?
+
+[1:01:22] Exactly. So that's why it tastes so great. Is that one of the burgers to try though? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.
+
+[1:01:26] Yeah, it's a great burger. All right. So you can read about how to make that in uh the in the juicy Lucy, you give some tricks for them not to have the cheese explode in your face. Yes, it's true. There is some science to that.
+
+[1:01:35] Is that they will explode in your face if you don't poke little holes in the top. Yeah, two pick, toothpick. Uh all right. Now, the goober burger with peanut butter, I now want to try this. It's good, the melted peanut butter.
+
+[1:01:45] Oh, yeah, salty goodness. And then the fluff, the fluff screamer is hot sauce and meat, a meat-based hot sauce, which is similar to Rochester's quote unquote hot sauce. It's a hot dogs ground up with spice. Hot dogs, yeah. Hot dogs ground up with spice.
+
+[1:01:57] Whole country. Uh with marshmallow fluff on it. What about the combination? Would it work? The fluffer nutter burger.
+
+[1:02:03] Have you tried it? It would work. It would be amazing, actually. Because the fluff turns off the heat in the hot sauce. The hot sauce alone, the screamer sauce, is very freaking hot.
+
+[1:02:14] You don't put cheese on a bacon avocado burger? That's like the standard in my house. You hate it? The look on your face, like it's like the look on your face. That's that's like a tuna milkshake.
+
+[1:02:23] I don't know about it. Uh talk to me a little bit. We have very little time left. Garjulo's burger at uh at Brennan and Carr. Is this something I've never been there?
+
+[1:02:32] Is it worth getting on the subway and scraping my butt out there? Oh, yeah. It's all everything they make everything in-house. It's all fresh. It's fantastic.
+
+[1:02:38] I usually get a cup of broth to go. It's it's halfway between a French dip and a hamburger. Basically, yeah. And it's money? It's oh, it's amazing.
+
+[1:02:45] Yeah. Make sure you get the onions. All right, right. And uh last but not least, I think the swine and cheese in Houston. You know my butcher who was from Staten Island in the 90s used to grind bacon into my hamburger meat for me.
+
+[1:02:57] I'd have him grind it, and he used to do it just that was his special thing. It works. Yeah. But in other words, like I didn't I didn't know that it was a uh I didn't know that there was an uncommon thing. Yeah, it was a friend of mine on the West Coast is doing it for his burgers, uh, Mark Tripp.
+
+[1:03:09] He's doing his his he sells burgers uh, you know, pop-up on the street. And he's doing uh, he does a uh blend of bacon in his meat it's fantastic my butcher always used to be like uh I shouldn't really do it because I'm contaminating my my uh grinder but hell with it you know what I mean like he's for standing on okay uh last thing the slug burger with the bread crumbs do I need to try this so it's a uh Mississippi based oh yes and it's a four to one I did the math it's a four to one four beef one bread crumb mix it in salt obviously mix it in so it's breadcrumbs are all in the meat mix yeah but it's not a meatloaf alloy it's an actual burger well because you're smashing it thin it's a thin patty so what's happening is the grease is soaking up into those bread crumbs and then crisping up it is an absolutely perfect hamburger experience. Alright so that's one to try at home oh yeah that's it's also super easy. So if you want to make any of these burgers please go get uh the great American burger book expanded and updated edition uh from George Motes we're super happy to have you on I'll answer the rest of you guys questions about like waffle irons and whatnot next week cooking issues thanks for coming on thanks for having me
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City. Joined uh well, New Stan Studios. Joined as usual with uh John over there way over the other end of the booth today. How are you doing, John?
+
+[0:25] Doing great, thanks. Yeah? Yeah? Yeah. Are you yeah?
+
+[0:28] All's good? Really? Except for the weather lately, but yeah, other than that, it's fine. I mean, I don't know. You know what?
+
+[0:31] Nastasia, the hammer Lopez, who's in uh Stamper, she she hates people, they change their behavior based on the weather. I mean, unfortunately I can't change anything based on the on the weather. I still have to do what I have to do, but it doesn't make life fun. Yeah, but in other words, like people who only have fun when the weather is nice, she finds what, Stas? Uh weeks.
+
+[0:52] Yeah. Yeah. Okay, I guess what I'm getting at is working in the kitchen has been hot and very humid and very unpleasant. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's that's that's fair.
+
+[1:01] That's fair. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, uh yeah, like tomorrow I'm going to North Adams. I'm going to this like uh place that we the family goes called uh tourists, and it's kinda cool.
+
+[1:11] But they're like, oh, it's gonna be raining. I'm like, don't care. Don't care. Don't care. Uh in uh wait, where where is it?
+
+[1:18] Austin? You're in Austin right now or San Antonio, Mr. Molecules. Uh Austin, Texas. Austin, Texas.
+
+[1:26] Nice. And it's disgusting here. It's like a hundred and six every day. Humid and miserable. Is it is it bat season or not bat season?
+
+[1:34] I never I'm never there during bat season. You know, it it must be bat season. I heard them by the bridge. The hotel, the line hotel here is like I look right out to the South Conference bridge where all the tourists kind of line up to watch the bats at sunset. So you run, but I haven't.
+
+[1:50] You you heard the bats, but you're near like I'm not gonna bother looking out the window. No, no, I looked. I didn't see. I I heard them earlier in the day. Yeah.
+
+[1:58] They're very loud. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of a weird tourist thing. Bats.
+
+[2:04] I know, right? Yeah. Bats. I mean, I don't know. I don't get it.
+
+[2:07] Like, unless it's a lot of bats. Unless it's a horror show. If it's a horror show, I mean, I've seen flocks of birds, and I'm like, oh, that's pretty. I want to look at that, but I'm not gonna fly to see a flock of birds. Right.
+
+[2:18] All right. Yeah. Uh and uh oh I got you know who I didn't introduce yet behind me? Joe Hazen on the panels. How are you doing?
+
+[2:25] Hey, it's great. It's kind of weird to be behind you. Yeah, that's maybe that's how I didn't didn't see you there. Yeah, I know. I kind of need to set a mirror up or something.
+
+[2:31] Yeah. Yeah, like one of those uh pedestrian saver things. Yeah, those circular kind of like weird yeah. That would be strange. Uh and in the upper, upper, upper left, we got Quinn.
+
+[2:42] How you doing? Hey, I'm good. No, no. And back again, so but way before their book uh Tropical Standard came out, way before then, we had on uh good friend uh X uh X existing conditions, the no longer existing, the no longer extant conditions, Garrett Richard and his co-author Ben Schaefer of Tropical Standard. Uh also run so co-author of that, rum reader for Ben, uh you know, Garrett, I don't know.
+
+[3:07] Well, you can guys can say what you're up to, but now the book is out, and are you almost done? Hey guys. Hey. Yeah. What's up?
+
+[3:13] Glad to be back on uh cooking issues. So how long ago were you on? Were you on like like six, eight months ago? I was in November. How many months is that?
+
+[3:21] Like eight? It's like six or eight months ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And so now the book came out like a couple of months ago, and and Ben, you've been running this full ragged, like on like uh on a tour.
+
+[3:32] You want to t tell first of all, like for those who haven't heard the the that first episode where we talked uh you know in depth about the the book and everything, you want to just let 'em know what the book's about a little bit? Yeah, absolutely. Uh Ben, what's the elevator pitch for a tropical standard? Well, I like to think of it as combining it's like a third stream project, right? So it's combining the influence of the uh craft cocktail revival as exemplified by people like Dale DeGroff and the tropical drink revival, exemplified by people like Jeff Beech Bomberry.
+
+[4:04] But bringing those two things together that should never have been put asunder in the first place. And and doing so, tying it all together with the cutting edge culinary techniques developed by people such as, and this might come as a shock to you, Dave Arnold. That guy's a jerk and he does not know what he's talking about. Right. I noticed that.
+
+[4:22] Yeah. But we we you know, we give him kind of some slack in the book. Uh so it's really about using those kind of techniques to get to places where you can't get to without them and try trying to take tropical drinks kind of a little bit of a different direction with new flavors and textures that you know I think people are really excited about. Uh whenever we serve these drinks to people, they get it. Whenever people seem to read the book, they seem to get it.
+
+[4:44] Uh we're we're we're excited to, you know, we've been doing a tour, which we'll talk about in a minute, and it's been great to get in front of people and and and show them what's all about. I mean, when I first started it existing, I think you said to us when we were doing staff training, like a good way to create a drink is like find a problem and solve it. And at the same time as like working with you and and Don Lee, I yeah, I was doing my own pop-up of Tropical Drinks called Exotica at Rain's Law Room. And yeah, those drinks have a lot of problems. There's a lot of things to fix.
+
+[5:13] And that's really like that's where the ethos came out of the book, is is really just that simple thing of like what are some things the tropical drinks don't do well and how can we address them? And mostly that's through technique, which is what the book's focus is. Right. I mean I guess it's like uh a lot of the problems, right, of any kind of old spec like that is one and we and you you talk about this a lot. When you fetishize something that's from the past, and that's in also not only is that in the past, the ingredients are different, the time is different, the place is different.
+
+[5:45] So you can know the history, which of course you know you guys know much better than I do, because that's not my shtick, right? Uh but then you have to also have as part of your kind of obsessiveness making it taste good. Yeah. I think that's what that's where Garrett's genius lies, is that he's very good at going back and and interpreting what the intention was of the original author of some of these classic drinks from the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, where as you say, we don't have the ingredients the same, even produce is different, everything is different. Spirit of the law, not letter of the law in that way.
+
+[6:17] Exactly. So even where the drinks don't have anything wrong with them, there's nothing to be fixed, you still have to reinterpret the drink in order to make it with today's stuff. I think that's some something some people overlook. They say, hey, you know, and m I like to make the 1944, you know, Vic's Mai Thai. It's like, well, we'd all like to do that, but you don't have the stuff.
+
+[6:35] Yeah. You should uh invent the time machine. By the way, time machine's never going to be possible. I hope you guys know this. Time machine's not one of those things ever gonna happen.
+
+[6:41] It's never gonna happen. We know. It's not possible. Yeah, that's why we have to write books on exactly. That was one of the premises of this book as well.
+
+[6:48] This is what I tell like, you know, I used to tell my kids this all the time, but like, but couldn't there be a time machine? I was like, if there was a time machine, you'd already know. They're like, what do you mean? I was like, because someone would have come to the case. Yeah, there was a time travelers convention.
+
+[7:00] Yeah. No one showed up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. I think the famous example, of course, is um Stephen Hawking held a party for Time Travelers.
+
+[7:06] He didn't announce until afterwards, and of course no one came. But that might just prove that they didn't want to come to his party. Yeah, because he was a renowned. He was a jerk, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[7:14] I met him actually. Really? And was he a dick? I mean, who can tell. You couldn't tell.
+
+[7:18] You couldn't really tell. Oh, well, he was only his uh his uh you you only spoke through uh his uh his his person. He had a person who was his who could yeah. Yeah. I mean I didn't chat with him, but I was you know, I I met him.
+
+[7:30] You didn't have coffee with him. I didn't have co it wasn't a one-on-one thing. Uh well I'm sure he was nice in uh talking to large groups of people. Right. But you know, you don't know if it's pre-pro he might somebody else could be saying it.
+
+[7:42] It's all coming off of his appreciated it did Futurama and and The Simpsons, you know. Yeah. Oh, he did? He's a fan of Futurama. Yeah, he did both.
+
+[7:50] He didn't know. There is a there is a Stephen Hawking joke in our book as well, so it's relevant. Yeah, uh I don't remember. Uh yeah. Huge book, Blockbuster at the time.
+
+[8:02] Yeah. Yeah. All right. So uh before we go too deep into Tropical Standard, which I'm sure you guys can pitch this this way if you want, which I know you will. But uh any you guys have anything interesting happened in the past uh week or so?
+
+[8:14] Culinary, cocktail. By the way, I apologize to people who don't like cocktails because it's gonna be a very cocktail heavy episode. Yes. Why would you apologize for people like that? They have only themselves to blame.
+
+[8:24] No, it's true. Fair enough. Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah.
+
+[8:27] But it's well we approach it from a culinary point of view. Yeah. If you want to call in and you're on the Patreon, dial in to 917410 1507. That's 917 410 1507. And if you don't know what a Patreon is, uh John, what should they do?
+
+[8:42] Go to Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Uh you can find out uh all about the different memberships we've got, all the different perks that come with it, including uh what's relevant to today's episode, discount with Kitchen Arts and Letters. Um on Tropical Standard. Uh yeah, you get l certain levels of live access to the video feed, you get the recording before everyone else, you get prioritized answers, uh questions answered. So yeah, check it out.
+
+[9:07] We have the Edwards Age Meat Discount going now. Oh, that's right. The Edward Age Meat discount going now too, which is really delicious. Good meat, great meat. Good meat.
+
+[9:14] Um patreon.com slash cooking issues. Yeah. All right, Jack. Anything in tech? What are you eating only breakfast burritos for breakfast, lunch, and dinner?
+
+[9:21] You should not have a breakfast burrito for dinner. I'm having breakfast burritos for lunch. Um I would never have a breakfast burrito for dinner. But what about breakfast for dinner? And I don't I don't like that.
+
+[9:35] You never tuck into a pancake at dinner time. No. Is that a lot in 106 degree weather? Like I feel like burrito that's breakfast for breakfast. Quite a bit.
+
+[9:44] I mean, you have to. That's what they do. Like what else are you gonna do? Yeah. That's true.
+
+[9:48] You know. There's also that theory that the hotter it is, the hotter the food should be, both in spiciness and in heat temperature. Sweat it all out. And then when you walk out, you're like, oh, that's somehow a relief. Unless you're John, you'd have to be in the kitchen making.
+
+[10:10] Yeah. Yeah. No well. No. No.
+
+[10:14] Uh what about what about you, Quinn? You always have some uh some sort of uh culinary wackiness that you're working on. Yeah, I mean uh I uh redid my pistachio gelato. That was really good. Well, what kind of pistachios you're using?
+
+[10:29] Uh whatever was at the grocery store. Yeah. The problem with pistachios, even like high-end pistachios like bazini, so Basini is the biggest nut purveyor here in New York City, or at least I guess the one that's most well known. And apparently, uh it used to be Italians that ran the nut business in uh New York City in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Uh as I read his whole article about uh firehouses used to have weird pets, not just dogs, so they would have like monkeys and like all sorts of weird mascots, and this one monkey in the in uh in Little Italy, you know, down like on Lafayette Street, used to go uh steal from Italian nut vendors and then like you know, rip and then like they fooled him and gave him hot nuts once to kind of burn his hands, and he freaked out and started clawing the peanut vendor apart.
+
+[11:20] And this is all like in this old book, Firefighters and Their Pets. Uh yeah, Jocko Jocko the monkey. Yeah. Anyway, point being uh that Basini, even though they are a long and storied history of nuts, if you dump their pistachios onto a sheet tray and look at them, some of them suck, and just a couple of crappy pistachios in a batch will ruin uh a sorb not ruin, but make worse a sorbet or an orjat, and I've tested this many times. Yeah, you give Jocko bad nuts, he's gonna rip your face.
+
+[11:49] I think like history has shown that uh if you get some form of monkey or chimp and you keep it in like one air, it will eventually rip your face off, right, Nastasia. Yes. That's your favorite story. Yeah. So Nastasia grew up next to Mo, the chimp, right?
+
+[12:10] Right, Sas? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And can you Yeah, he he lived with this guy and his wife, and he would sit outside on the on the grass, and we would go.
+
+[12:20] My parents would drive past and we'd honk the hornet. Everyone would hawk the hoard and say hello to Mo. Um and then one day Mo lost it and ripped and did what, Dave? He he ripped someone's nose. Well, it was so we we determined we looked at it.
+
+[12:29] Here's what happened, right? So first of all, Mo would be my age now, right? If Mo was still alive, he'd be like between Nastasi and my age. What happened was is that he went a little bit crazy, and so he got taken away from like the Mo handler. So Mo handler and Mo handler, the the the couple who had Mo, right?
+
+[12:52] They couldn't have a kid, so they got a freaking chimp. Bad move. So they raised this chimp, and then eventually someone's like, no. And so the chimp got taken and put into a chimp sanctuary. They go to visit Mo for Moe's birthday.
+
+[13:06] Two other chimps escape, rip the dude's nose off. Rip the dude's nose off. That's rough. Yeah. What?
+
+[13:14] No, they ripped his nuts off, Dave. Oh, yeah, yeah. They ripped his nuts off. Go back to Jo Jocko the Mo. Yeah, it's full circle.
+
+[13:22] Anyway, so they rip his they rip his they rip off his cojones. Right. Right, right, right. And then Mo escapes, never to be seen again. So Nastasia believes Moe is still alive in Southern California somewhere.
+
+[13:32] And I believe he's dead. Wanted dead or alive, yeah. I believe he's dead. Yeah, probably. Yeah.
+
+[13:38] Alright. Two quick things for me, and then we're gonna get into it because Ben is gonna jump out of his seat and stab me with his with his water bottle. Last time was honey baked ham. Now it's money. Honey baked, why are you starting with honey bake ham?
+
+[13:46] It's delicious. You just brought it up. Anyway, I I withdraw the question. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Two things.
+
+[13:51] One, Nastasi, do you remember when we went to uh the Park Hyatt Hotel and we were working there? Do you remember the bartender Isagai? So Isagai San gave Dax Dax, my son, younger son just graduated from high school. So I'm I'm done with uh that whole section of my life, right? So over grad high school graduation yesterday.
+
+[14:07] So is so Dax comes to uh when he was like what eight? How old? He was really young, right, Stas, when we when we were there, like it was like 10 years ago, yeah. And this guy, Isagai, who's a bartender, we were working with the Park Hyatt, takes a liking to Dax, takes a silver chain off of his neck and puts it around Dax's neck and gives it to him. So we call it the Isigai chain, and he wore it to his graduation.
+
+[14:30] And I was like, I wish I could find out if Isagai was still a bartender in Tokyo or not, but I don't have his last name and I can't look it up. That's awesome, though. Yeah, I gotta find, I gotta somehow we gotta find Isagai. Those guys were first of all call in if you know Isagai. Yeah, the entire team at the park hyatt at the time was just freaking stellar.
+
+[14:47] You know how when you go to an event, like I'm sure you guys are doing a crap ton of events now? Yeah. And and you have weird requirements because you you're not just like shaking lime with sugar and like whatever spirit. Yeah. By the way, I apologize.
+
+[15:01] No one has given us jewelry though at any point. Well, you gotta bring a kid with you. But like I apologize, yeah. Anyone who is you anyone out there who's choosing what to do with their life, choose something simple. Like, because when you're gonna go do events and your stuff's non-standard, exactly zero people understand what you actually require when you hit the ground there.
+
+[15:22] And they never have the right stuff. They don't they mean well, but they never have the right products, they never have the right kind of equipment, and they say they do, but it's not their fault because they don't work the way you do, right? Except those guys at the park hyatt. They crushed it. Remember, Styles?
+
+[15:35] We showed up all nervous and like they crushed everything. I loved them. They were amazing. They were freaking amazing. They were good.
+
+[15:43] Anyway, uh, so there's that, the graduation and the Isigai chain. And secondly, I went to see a Broadway show last week. Broadway, and uh for the first time in a long time. And on the way home, uh that the you know how the trains here, they f up, and so they they just switched the train to a different line without staying because the loudspeakers were broken. So all of a sudden now I had a half hour walk home after I hadn't eaten because we don't do the early bird things.
+
+[16:07] I'm r I'm so hangry, right? And I'm even more hangry because my wife at a certain point does like loses her hunger. She's like, I'm not hungry anymore. I don't even know how that works. You don't know people like this?
+
+[16:16] They're like, I'm not eating, I'm not eating, I'm noting, I'm hungry, I'm hungry, I'm not even hungry anymore. Doesn't work for me. I don't work like that. She opted out of hunger. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[16:23] I can't do that. Anyway, so I'm trying to get home, and down one of the main things, you know, one of the main streets, Allen Street, there's a freaking flash bike mob, right? So they're running through the light. Like they're they're like like they're a funeral procession. They're running through the freaking light.
+
+[16:36] And there's and so like it was one whole light and I'm steaming, and then the there's another light and it turns and there's still more people. So I walk out in front of them. I'm like, yo, keep up with the pack, crap on you. Just because you're slow doesn't mean I'm gonna wait another freaking light. And Jen's livid with me because I'm like storming home.
+
+[16:53] Then I finally make it into my neighborhood, which is Dimes Square now, it's full of hipsters, like crawling with hipsters all the time now, which is kind of whatever, it's fine, it's good for the business. But this guy on a skateboard, I'm trying to cross the street, guy on the skateboard, starts coming towards me, thinks I'm gonna stop. Oh yeah, 52-year-old guy been to Broadway with a suit jacket and I was gonna stop. I just put up my hand to go boom! I strong arm the guy, he goes off of his skateboard, right?
+
+[17:16] I don't even look at him, I keep walking. He didn't even get mad at me because I didn't even yell at him. I just was like, No. You know, Dave, the statute of limitations hasn't run out on that, yeah. I was like, you shall go no further on your way.
+
+[17:27] You don't get to run into me because you're on a dimwit on a skateboard. Anyway, that's it. All right, let's talk about some uh and I went home and ate. And that was fine. Yeah, he was in your way.
+
+[17:37] He wasn't in my way. He was coming towards me thinking I was gonna yield to him because he was on skateboard. I don't know if you know this. Pedestrians have the right of freaking way. Anyway, all right, food.
+
+[17:47] Food and drinks. Food and drinks. All right. So you want to answer some questions and then go into like tour and what's going on? What do you want to do?
+
+[17:53] Let's talk about what we've been doing. All right, right. We've had some collaborative moments. So the book came out about a month ago. Yeah.
+
+[18:01] Very exciting. We did an amazing event at Sunken Harbor Club here in New York where Jared is the head bartender. You were there for for a moment. Yeah, it was double the people we expected. Yeah.
+
+[18:10] It was not. It was it was slammed the entire time from people were there. I got there at the event started at six. I got there at 4 30. There were already people queuing up to get in.
+
+[18:17] Oh god help. And uh yeah, it was surprisingly popular. Uh but then we've been touring pretty exhaustively. We spent a week in San Francisco, which was really amazing. Which I have never really gone out in San Francisco ever.
+
+[18:30] So this was this is my first time getting to hang out in the city. Yeah, I grew up in LA, but uh you know, and I would go there as a kid, like for a weekend or something, but I never really got to experience SF. Is it because you were from LA that you never you're like crap on them? What the hell? No, I just I never I just never put the time in to, you know, when I f would fly out over there, I would just, you know, it'd be all family time.
+
+[18:52] So I would never like spend two days to go up there. But we had such a good time hanging out with uh a friend of the book, uh Julio Bermejo, which we we That was really the highlight. Yeah. Uh so we we had the opportunity to do a uh panel discussion at Trader Vicks in Emeryville in East Bay, and uh you know, in the way we talk about it in the book is there's two kind of titans of cocktails from the Bay Area. Obviously, Trader Vic himself caused to be created many, many, many important drinks.
+
+[19:24] But in a way, maybe even more influential, uh, is the Tommy's margarita, which was created by Julio Bermejo at Tommy's Mexican restaurant, and which is right now, you know, being served, you know, all over the world. In Cambodia, someone's being served as Tommy's margarita right now. 211. Right. And the agave nectar back in the day was bricks adjusted down to 50.
+
+[19:49] So it's one of the first cocktails that was. What era is uh what era nineteen eighties. Well, when was agave syrup available? Like it was he he talked about that quite at last. Yeah, he talked about that on stage.
+
+[20:04] It's really kind of the beginning of agave syrup being available. And it's not still to this day standardized. I just did about fifteen, twenty hours of reading on agave, and it's freaking complicated. P.S. people.
+
+[20:19] Don't trust anything you read, even in scientific literature about how sweet something is, because they never tell you the right units. Are they talking about sweetness by volume? Are they talking about sweetness by weight? Are they talking about sweetness at light years of difference? Yeah.
+
+[20:34] Absolutely. Luckily, I mean the cool thing hearing Julio on stage at Trader Vicks was him talking about like him procuring the agave nectar, but even more so, he did like the soliloquy on limes, like talking about how, you know, he used to go at like one in the morning to his produce purveyor and pick a case of limes out of four cases based on like the right, you know. Sort of like your pistachio. And just and what to look for, how to cut them, freshness of juice. I mean, it was and you know, to this the to the audience that was there, you know, half of them at the probably the beginning of the talk were like, you know, I can juice once a week, right?
+
+[21:14] And you know, he's like converting the damned, you know, and doing a good job at it. As a uh as a New Yorker, when it comes to limes, my rule is you get what you get and you don't get upset. Yeah. Just order twice as many. Oh, it's the limes have less juice right now?
+
+[21:33] Guess what I'm gonna do? Order twice as many. Yeah. That's because we have no choice here. No choice, no problem.
+
+[21:40] Yeah. It was I mean, that was that was a pretty incredible event. I I feel like we we got to do some like nice old school San Francisco things. We got to do House of Prime Rib, which was great. Um what's nice?
+
+[21:51] The newer bars in San Francisco, how much room do they have behind those bars? Because they're all like built accessibly, so you're not bumping butts when you're working behind one of those newer California bars. They're great. And also every bar in San Francisco we saw was really friendly towards flash blending. Like most bars had a little Hamilton Beach in the corner, and even the older ones would have one, you know, from like the early 50s.
+
+[22:18] But Garrett, uh I think Garrett's missing out an important part of his resume. Because we were hanging out with Julio all week, we got the opportunity to do a little event at Tommy's. And Garrett got behind the bar and made El Diablos, which I think makes him a very small uh elite of people who've made their own drink at Tommy's rather than Tommy's margarita. Right. So for those of you that don't know, if you go to Sunken Harbor Club, right?
+
+[22:42] Many of you won't know. But if you come to New York, you should go to Sunken Harbor Club. But uh you order, you're you're like, you know, you're from wherever, I don't know where you're from, Keyacookuk, Iowa. I don't know where you're from. You come in and you're like, uh Diablo.
+
+[22:55] And then they go off, and then when they make the drink, they go, Diablo, and then the entire bar goes, Diablo. So you hear it. That's a call in response. We didn't garnish it. No, I wouldn't do it at the time.
+
+[23:08] You didn't do it? Why not? Uh I didn't feel like people would have been in on the joke. Like Do you know? It would have been, yeah, it would have I yeah.
+
+[23:17] You don't need to be in on it. Who cares? It was about being there. Garrett was only making El Diablo, so it would have been insane. Yeah, it would have been it would have been a lot.
+
+[23:24] So like at the end, the stats sounded like Diablo. Yeah. Diablo. Then it just becomes work. All right.
+
+[23:30] So you gotta we we you can't just say words, you gotta tell them the spec. What is a Diablo? Oh yeah, okay. So it's an old. But remember, this is a radio show.
+
+[23:37] The El Diablo is an old Trader Vic drink. In in tropical standard, we actually uh show its roots are much deeper. It has some connection to the original tequila sunrise, not the orange Eagles version, but an older version that was uh served at a racetrack in the 30s. But um Wait, the Eagles gave a spec? Well, the Eagles have that orange grenadine nonsense that they talk about.
+
+[24:00] They don't give a speck. No, they don't use a speck, but they like that version. Well who's saying which one of the Eagle singers sang that stuff? Which one of the is that a fry situation? I don't know.
+
+[24:10] That's a good question. Yeah, good. But any, but anyways, uh El Diablo, it's an odd it's it's a cool drink in that it's a classic tequila drink that's not a margarita, that's also like really highlights the agave really well. So it's usually Blanco Tequila, l uh lime, ginger beer, float of cassis. The way we do it in the book is Page 81, if everyone wants to refer to their coffee of Tropical Standard.
+
+[24:34] The way we do it in the book is instead of ginger beer, we do a combination of ginger syrup, raspberry syrup, and uh we still keep the cassis, and then we do lemon instead of lime, because I feel like the lemon works better with the cassis. And then we use a little bit of cardamom because the cardamom kind of gives it that brewed ginger beer kind of flavor to it. Uh yeah. Yeah, toasted green in a tincture. Which I feel like is like an I a thing we we talk about at a tropical standard a lot.
+
+[25:01] I use it more and more now at Sunken Harbor, is like isolating flavors with no sweetness and just doing tinctures of them. Yeah, you know, it's a little bit different though. In other words, yeah, it's a good way to be like precise, but you do get different flavors when things are infused in a syrup versus not. Alcohol extracts different flavors. So well, alcohol, water with sugar as opposed to just water and glycerin all extract different different flavors.
+
+[25:27] Glycerin is also a good extractive, but different. Um wait, what were we just talking about? Diablo. We were talking about the El Diablo. I got to make it at Tommy's, which was awesome.
+
+[25:39] And we I got I shook in the blender pitcher, which was really cool. Like they actually brought you. Yeah, they brought me on a normal shaker, and I was like, no, I'm here at Tommy's, I'm gonna do the actual real Tommy's shake. So if people don't know, at Tommy's, they don't use normal cocktail shakers. They shake in a large blender pitcher, and their thinking is is that no one ever orders one Tommy's margarita, so they basically use it as a giant shaker.
+
+[26:04] What brand of shake or pitcher were they using? It's a it's probably like an Austin. I it wasn't like a fancy like fighting. It was probably wearing. Yeah, because it's glass.
+
+[26:13] Yeah. And the wearing the the issue with uh blender pitchers is some of them they they don't seal so good. No, you got it, you gotta hold it and like you gotta be very careful. But then you know, you you also use it as the strainer. It was it was a blast.
+
+[26:26] Those stunts those stunt shakers that like you know, Plymouth used to give out the giant ones. Yeah, the giant Simon Ford party shakers like a mother. Yeah, he still makes them for Ford's. Yeah. We had the Ford's one at existing.
+
+[26:38] Yeah, you know what they need. And I think I was the only person that would pick them up. They need some form of sealing situation. You have to be very careful with a giant shaker. I have a tin set at home that won't seal either.
+
+[26:47] I should just throw it away. It's so irritating to have crap flying back, you know, especially because I do a lot of colored drinks. Yeah. Anyway. Uh okay, so you brought it up, ginger.
+
+[26:58] Let's go into some ginger. So I've talked a lot about this thing you've been doing with magnesium carbonate. I've been doing a lot of experimenting with uh ginger, like a lot. Like a lot. So uh very quickly.
+
+[27:09] So ginger, the ginger has two main components in it when it's fresh. It's uh ginger barine and ginger all, six gingerol, right? Now, the one that's just kind of ginger flavor is the ginger barine, but it's not the pungency. And so this is I'm telling you this because this is something that you and I are concerned with. The ginger all is the super spicy crap that's up front.
+
+[27:29] The problem is that's where the oils are are. Well, the oil most of the oil gingerol. Well, most of the oil is that gingerberine stuff, right? Which isn't what makes it hyper spicy, but gives it that kind of ginger candy flavor. Yeah.
+
+[27:39] It's the ginger all that's super spicy. However, it changes over time relatively quickly into two different things. Uh Zingerone, which is not that pungent, right? And shogel or show shogale, I don't know how you pronounce it, which is freaking really spicy. So what you gotta do is, and I've been researching this, I've been doing a bunch of testing of pressure cooking ginger.
+
+[28:02] So you juice the ginger and then you pressure cook it right away to try to maintain super spiciness. Also, you know how people a lot of times will put acid directly into their ginger juice to stabilize it? I think that also that stabilizes the spiciness as well. But not very well. So in a couple of weeks, I should have very I should know all about the stability of ginger juice.
+
+[28:14] I'll get back to you. Yeah, for for people listening, basically at existing conditions, the white whale was clear ginger juice, which we didn't know how to do we because the normal methods we were using, like pectin X and Kesasol and Chitasan, did not work on because there was no pectin in the ginger juice to latch on to. It just wouldn't spin well. There is, but it's not knock out the starch. It wouldn't be a good one.
+
+[28:46] Yeah, it would knock the starch out. And um something I've been messing around with a lot at Sunken Harbor is doing um some of the methods from Darcy O'Neill's YouTube channel and his book Fix the Pumps. And I've been making a lot of soda fountain stuff, mostly for non-alks, but now it's been bleeding into our normal alcoholic drinks. And um one day, actually, this was for the launch of Tropical Standard. I was like, you know what?
+
+[29:09] I want to do the bourbon special from Tropical Standard, and I want the ginger to be clear. And I just tried like seven methods on a bunch of ginger juice, and one of them was the magnesium carbonate, and then the one that was the most clear was magnesium, and I think I only had chitasan in my fridge, and that was the one that break broke, and that was the one that I sent you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then from there, Dave has been really just you know going forward with it.
+
+[29:35] Hammering this thing down. I got what I want is stable, because the problem is that it loses its pungency like in a day or a day and a half. Uh and and I looked at all the curves on the internet. It's it's uh, but guess that get this. So I used to use almost exclusively champion juicers, right?
+
+[29:48] For things like ginger. I was always a champion guy. I used champion for apples. I've moved away from that too. The slow, the slow ones are way better.
+
+[29:55] I just got uh the Koovings Revo 830. Oh crap. So I stayed away from things like the Green Star, which is the gear juicer that like a lot of people used to get. And uh, but these new what they call cold press, which are basically vertical auger machines. So get this.
+
+[30:13] So which what which one do you use? I think it's the green. Yeah, because uh oh my god. My my prep my prep one of my prep original prep uh persons, uh she's she's now like on the floor and uh and with the bar team at Asia. She brought us one and then I just started using that.
+
+[30:30] All right. The yield on the green stars, Sam Mason used to tell me weren't uh th those gear-based ones, but like so this this Revo 830, and I think it's kind of pricey, but get this. 806 grams of ginger did this yesterday, right? And all you do is break them into chunks like you know, a couple and throw them into the hopper uh and it juices them for you. It it grinds them and pushes them to get the juice out.
+
+[30:52] I got six hundred and forty-eight mils of juice out of that. That's eighty percent easier. Yeah, it's way better than the champion the the champion is great for some things and then other things. It it's anyway. So, you know, I think I'm totally so far I'm totally sold on this freaking and the pulp came out so dry.
+
+[31:08] I have a four-ton press. You know how my the only old press that we have? Yeah, the w the the waffle bourbon press. Yeah. So I built one at home, a small one, and I I don't think I'm gonna be able to get any more juice out of the press and I would have.
+
+[31:20] Pretty pretty damn efficient. Yeah. So I might have to change my change my. Do we have a ginger question from Tropic? Or no, we were just rapping about ginger.
+
+[31:28] Yeah, we're rapping. Someone was talking about, and I'm gonna be doing a lot of work on it. I'm going to Tales of the Cocktail while we're doing another seminar. We just did a seminar BC. We just did acid.
+
+[31:37] Acid adjusting and bricks adjusting. And the fun thing was a week before I was doing a seminar at the hookie Lao in Fort Lauderdale just on acid. So when we did it together, it was like way easier to bounce off of three people and also just, you know, talk about multiple topics rather than just one for 40 minutes. You like the succinic acid, by the way? Yeah.
+
+[31:57] Yeah. That was good. Uh well, anyway, so while we're talking about juicing, so we don't have to talk about it again. Alex Goody said, uh, I love drinking vegetable juice. It's not about health.
+
+[32:05] I'm just a low-quality individual. I'm looking for guidance on improving it. Uh preservation quality yield. I like beets, celery, leafy greens, and carrots, maybe some ginger and lemon, no apples. For quality, you think nitrile muddling would be worthwhile?
+
+[32:15] No. No. You don't mind you you only nitromuddle things that are like thin that shatter easily, like thick things like lettuce are hard because they're physically hard. So I would not do that. No.
+
+[32:25] Uh can you nitromutle with dry ice? No. Uh well what about freezing the greens? I don't know why you freeze it to juice it. Everyone says soak greens before you juice them to get maximum extraction.
+
+[32:36] To get the water into the cells, like in so that they puff up with water and then you get higher extraction. Freezing the greens, or maybe more like carrots and stuff. It might concentrate the sugars, because in the book, we do talk about you know, freezing things like bananas and or not bananas, but like strawberries and things like that, and like frozen drinks. It does seem to remove some of the water content. Well, they breaks the stuff more, especially if you're not gonna use an effective way to do it.
+
+[33:01] Like the strawberry daiquiri in the book, it it's it's better, even if you get fresh strawberries, to freeze those strawberries for doing it. Okay, wait, get this. Like uh, you know, uh uh Boiron, puree people. I saw them at BCB. They sell that like that like freight of Marae, the the really good strawberry puree.
+
+[33:23] I kinda wanna buy that's gonna be so expensive though. Yeah, I mean, some of their other stuff is is you know, we uh when we were writing the book, you know, we had to rely a lot on the passion fruit and um the guava to a lesser extent. But you know, it's way more available now. Like it's it's they sell through Amazon now. They you know it it used to be you had to like really you had to like go through a restaurant if you were not a restaurant person be like, can you get me some passion fruit puree?
+
+[33:49] You know, now it's it's a lot more accessible. Yeah. Oh, and for Alex on the way out, uh if you want to preserve and what I presume you mean by preserving is uh stop them from oxidizing. I wouldn't use citric, I'd use ascorbic, and you can add it by taste because it's gonna get less less acidity. Um freezing, freezing is a good idea.
+
+[34:08] Freezing's a good idea on the juice. If it ferments quickly, you can use potassium sorbate, but you have to know what you're doing. Clarification is gonna change the flavor and also won't work on things that don't have any acid in them. You need some acid for the pect next to work. All right.
+
+[34:22] Um, here's you want you ready for this? Ian wants to know why do you why why do y'all why do y'all mix Imperial and metric units in your book? Ian, well, I mean, there's a good reason and a not so good reason. The good reason is at least we used a bit of metric. I mean, I think the idea was for the for the ingredients that you have to make yourself metric is the precision of metric was necessary.
+
+[34:51] Yeah, there's no there's no guesswork. Um what do you use imperial units on? We so we we have to. Well the the cocktail we use traditional units for the cocktails. An ounce isn't really an ounce, it's 30 mils.
+
+[35:02] Yeah, but it I mean, I wanted I think it's really parts. I I think there's an intent. I mean, you don't in in liquid. I say right up front that when I say ounces, that means 30 milliliters. Okay.
+
+[35:12] Yeah. And that and that you might as well just think about it as parts. Right. Yeah. I I think I think that's probably a good way to approach it.
+
+[35:20] The other thing is I just I wanted to present the recipes as they were made behind either sunken or exotica or even existing, which was those were the specs. But you can use a 30 mil ounce there. Yeah, on an old like 28-5 ounce. Yeah, no, I I felt like for cocktails I wanted the regular, you know, the regular one ounce. One teaspoon.
+
+[35:45] And then for the syrups, I really wanted there to be no wiggle room or no guesswork, which is why metric works so well on those. Yeah, but milliliters are not actually a very good cocktail unit because this like depending on where you are, right? If you're doing so, if you scale everything down to a 20 mil ounce, then things start working because like quarters and eighths start being relatively even numbers, but everything has weird decimals in it. 22.5 milliliters. Right.
+
+[36:11] Yeah. I wanted accessibility too. I wanted I I feel like it's actually easier and more accessible to have the the syrups in grams because and then because you're still weighing stuff anyways, right? Once you weigh stuff grams. And and then with with the cocktails, it most people have a two-one jigger, they have a three-quarter half jigger.
+
+[36:34] I wanted I wanted these cocktails to be able to be made at home, which we've seen a really good influx on Instagram of people making stuff from the book. I mean what Ben, what what do you think so far? What have the front runners been for at home? I mean, I've seen that we've seen the navy grog. Nobody grog is big.
+
+[36:51] Um Bird of Paradise has become big. Yeah, with Bird of Paradise has the cream syrup. Cream syrup. Do you have a pump? So hard to figure that out.
+
+[37:01] I have some pumps at home, yeah. Yeah. Um we've seen the Bird of Paradise. We've seen the strawberry daiquiries gotten a lot of traction, which has been fun. Basically the fur and excited about the Xanthan gum.
+
+[37:12] Oh yeah, I had a question about that. Yeah. Uh somewhere. Should we get should we get into the uh yeah? I gotta find the question because we have uh I have a bunch of people that asked asked about it.
+
+[37:21] But we can give the background on it. The Xanthan gum trick is a Oh, here you are. Matt's loving the book so far. The Xanthan gum and frozen drinks has been a game changer. Uh headed down the shore this summer.
+
+[37:30] Any suggestion for pre-batching tiki and tropical drinks that would be uh good for potentially days later. Well, use adjusts. Don't use lime, right? Yeah. Uh and don't put the xanthan gum in.
+
+[37:40] Yeah, a couple of a couple of things. Because what I just did a bunch of the frozen strawberry at Clover Club during BCB. Um what you can do is if you're gonna make a bunch of them throughout the day, is melt the the sugar into the lime or whatever citrus you have, do that first, then add the spirit and make a batch of what would be like your mix, and then and then you all you have to do is pour that mix with your I your crushed ice and if you have any fruit and xanthan gum and blend. But why not just put the xanthan the proper amount into the mix and wait for it to actually hydrate? I did uh maybe I did it wrong, you can tell me, but I did a live event in 2019 where I did that and it was I I it it clumped up unevenly.
+
+[38:32] Well, Xanthan is very, very touchy, right? Yeah. So with Xanthan, any hydrocolloid, you want to hydrate it in as close to pure water as is humanly possible. Well, that's probably why that's right. Right.
+
+[38:45] So what you what you want to do is put the Xanthan directly. If you're gonna do if you're if you're gonna do whether it's simple syrup, whether it's lime juice, whatever, you want to put the the Xanthan directly into that, then add the sugar. Then so h completely hydrate it, then add the sugar. And then you want to drastically reduce the amount of Xanthan that you're using. Because what's happening is at the lower temperature and with alcohol and with all that other stuff, you're gonna get much less hydration of the Xanthan than you would.
+
+[39:14] So you you in essence you're not you're using much higher than the actual percentage of thickening that you're getting. And Xanthan has very sharp like all of a sudden it's like, oh, it's getting thicker, it's holding its structure, right? Which is what you're using it for holding a structure. Yeah, structure and texture. And then it'll go snot.
+
+[39:34] Yeah. Or like, you know, so why we only use a quarter teaspoon. Right, but I mean I wouldn't I mean but what I would do is I would just uh figure out what the actual ideal final concentration is and then actually hydrate it beforehand. And then you could use it in batch, because Ben you're saying it's hard to do in a batch thing because it's gonna snot up on you. Well, you know, it if you just prehydrate it, figure out what the actual final concentration maybe we'll you know what we're doing enough events that that's gonna be.
+
+[40:03] Well, we can work on it because you know I'm I'm doing this this other stuff and uh But for everyone who's listening, basically the the quick the the quick thing of where this came from is I was getting a little frustrated doing these sort of old school blender recipes and not getting the right texture and not getting the texture as good as a frozen machine at you know, some places like Mother's Ruin and all the places in New York that have these giant machines because those are frozen uniformly, and obviously Blender, it's very violent. You're doing it, uh, you're not freezing uniformly. And um, just doing some research, I was like, who makes the best and most consistent frozen drinks on the planet? And it's Starbucks. Starbucks sells the most frozen drinks in the world, probably.
+
+[40:45] They're better than a Dunkin' Donuts frozen drink? Well, I don't know. But but um in going through like weird little like Starbucks Reddits of like people who work there and all that stuff, um, I found, and then you can see on their website, because you know, they have nutrition facts, that all their like frap mixes and all that stuff all had Xanthan in it. So then it was a matter of, and I was at Zizi's at the time of I was testing just different levels of it. And what I found is that adding a little bit to a frozen drink, it prevents the ice from separating and it gives you that same texture that you get from a slushing machine, even though you're not freezing uniformly.
+
+[41:24] Right. You need to add enough for the crystals not to want to float. Yeah. And you also don't want to add too much because yes, it can get gross. So yeah, I'm sure that I'm sure that the quarter teaspoon bothers you because it would be better if there was a weight measurement.
+
+[41:38] Well, not only that, but like like not all Xanthans are the same density, like Skyfar. But like, but if your plan is I'm just gonna over Xanthan it and it's not gonna hydrate anyway, but if we're gonna do a batch, we should figure out what the actual point we should figure out what the actual concentration is it's it's fairly bulletproof because I did this nine, I did it nine times at Rain's Law Room. I've done it several times at live events, and that's I mean, that's the nice thing about a lot of these specs is you know, sometimes you put a spec out into the world and you're like, oh, I didn't test it enough and like I forgot about this, this, and that. There's a lot of stuff in Tropical Standard that is worked in multiple bars. It's worked in existing, it's worked it, it rains, it's worked it, it sunk in.
+
+[42:18] So it's had like a lot of layers of other people testing those specs out. You know what? Another thing you could do, you can make a 1% Xanthan solution, which is fundamentally hair gel, and then just go and just put like a little bit of sort of like a knock. I'm gonna try that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[42:32] I like the idea of hair gel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's got very bad great. Color it, color it red, color it green. Exactly.
+
+[42:38] Uh so on a similar subject. Uh Michael picked up a used El Meco uh uh frozen drink machine. I've used El Meco, they're good. Uh from eBay last week. Any recommendations on cocktail recipes for a slushing machine?
+
+[42:49] How would you amend the slush recipes designed for a blender in liquid intelligence or tropical standard for a slushing machine? I've done a lot of work recently on this. What do you what's your what's your go to numbers like uh alcohol bricks? You like uh 15. 15 what?
+
+[43:02] 15 bricks is the the That's high though for me. Well, it depends on your machine because Frosty Factory, the range that they recommend is between like twelve and like even higher, like eighteen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm like right in the middle. So for me, I did here I ran a bunch of tests on a machine where I could so by the way, just FYI.
+
+[43:25] Machines like El Meco don't actually control the temperature, they control the texture, right? Like less expensive machines, like consumer machines have a like a thermometer in it and it's measuring the temperature, so you're shooting for a temperature, right? Yeah. So it's totally different. So my just my quick specs were testing, right?
+
+[43:44] That if you do a six if you do a six percent alcohol drink at twelve bricks, it is a firm, stiff drink at minus six degrees, six point five degrees Celsius, and it'll hold between fifteen and eighteen minutes before it totally breaks without Xanthan. Yeah, no, I wouldn't put Xanthan in a frozen machine. Well, I don't know but maybe you should. Because then uh you firm and stiff at 9.4% alcohol by volume, and nine bricks, which is what I shoot for, is about 11 to 15 minutes and has a higher alcohol and lower sugar, which I like. And you get a s you want a really soft slush, minus uh 12%, 12.5% ABV and 12 bricks goes all the way to minus 13 Celsius, so real cold, like brain freeze, only lasts eleven minutes and gets real watery.
+
+[44:25] Uh but a sweet spot if you need a high alcohol 14 ABV and 8.5 bricks holds, but it's thinner. So I I would shoot for me, like right now, what I'm going for is that like between nine and ten alcohol and between nine and ten bricks. And it's holding pretty well. Yeah, I think it depends on the drink too, because like I did um I did in the book there's we have a frozen version of the Derby Daiquiry, which is essentially a frozen orange daiquiri. And um I did it at 13 at an event, and then I did it at 15 at the launch, and I felt like just the texture was better of what?
+
+[45:00] Of the Derby Dackery, like at the launch, it was 15 bricks, and then I at a event before I was sort of testing it and it was 13. But you know it's funny. In a blender? No, no, no, in a frozen drink. In a frozen machine.
+
+[45:11] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But it's funny, I mean, doing all these events, like Ben was like the frozen drink wrangler. Like we had a fine machines in all these cities. It's really hard to get which is machines.
+
+[45:22] I'll get you hooked in with the Elmeco people. But they're good. But the the issue is is that you can't just adjust bricks. It's bricks and alcohol together need to be adjusted. Oh, no, absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
+
+[45:33] So, like, you know, what pr what what ABV are you going at? Well, uh uh, okay, the way the way I've been doing this is been doing a single drink, measuring the non-alk ingredients in the refractometer with the you know lime, the lime, the sugar, water, what have you, and then estimating with the inclusion of alcohol how that would hit 15 or 13. But making a single one and then freezing that single one in a freezer just to see if like how it free. Freezer's way too cold though. Well, what you do is you freeze it for a you know, like a couple hours, you break it up with a fork, which is sort of like the churning of the machine, put it back in.
+
+[46:19] And we actually we have a method in uh tropical standard, the f uh the frosty. Because it all my all my freezer drinks are much higher alcohol because you can go much colder. It's much colder. You know what I mean? Right, you know what we used to do.
+
+[46:33] Yeah, but um here's how I do it. I take I I always go huge. I don't ever think about an individual drink. I go huge. I'm like, I want to make like a liter, let's say.
+
+[46:47] I want to make a liter. So I got a thousand units. What do I want the ABV to be? And then I add however many units of whatever liquor till the ABV is what it is, and it's almost always doesn't have enough sugar in it. Then I'm like, how many sugar units do I have left to make a thousand milliliters the sugar level I want?
+
+[47:03] I add those sugars, then I'm like, how much acid do I want that's not already there? I add that amount of acid, and then if the I am lucky, which I almost always am, there is room for water. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[47:18] I mean, I think the that the doing the individual thing is kind of interesting for like home bartenders. It's sort of like what we did at existing. It's it's it's you know, freezing a very small amount, um, which we have the frosty buck in the trop in tropical standard, and then breaking it up and then freezing freezing it again, and then you can kind of just do a small pulse blend on it or something. And that gives you that gives you sort of an estimation of what it is, and then you can just scale up from there. The real the the kind of pitfall I ran into when I was first writing liquid intelligence is I was doing everything either in blenders or freezers without a machine, and I wasn't thinking about melt time as much.
+
+[47:55] You know what I mean? And so it's like I think a lot of people We were lucky when we were R Ding, yeah, I'm sure you remember this, Ben, that when we were RDing a lot of the frozens, it was super hot out. Like, and you know, it was in my kitchen that wasn't air conditioned. So I felt like it it forced us to think about like I I feel like if we had done the strawberry in the winter, we wouldn't have been as critical of it. But because we were in super super hot weather, we were we we had more of a I mean you're you remember the that session, right, Ben?
+
+[48:30] Of course. It's like summer twenty-one. Yeah. Um so Dave, you're you're looking for you look are you looking for things that hold the texture longer? Is that is that the concept?
+
+[48:40] I think people want it. Yeah, so like the drinks that I enjoy drinking the most are relatively frozen style, are relatively higher alcohol than is practicable because they turn liquid very quickly. So like, you know, I would be making drinks that were similar to our B BDX margarita, which is just barely a slush when it comes out. Yeah, it was on sh and it was on shaved ice. Yeah, it's basically liquid.
+
+[49:06] But I shoot for those kind of numbers which were higher originally. But the problem with them is, and even like my old, my old blender, my old frozen daiquiries, which you know you do in Ziploc, or like, you know, I would take something like, you know, uh Dolan Blanc and add vodka to it, you know, to jack the alcohol level to get the alcohol, and it forms a slush, but if you don't drink it pretty quickly, it waters out. So, you know, um I've been doing a lot more work now on dropping the ABV, you know, increasing the sugar slightly, but trying to hit that sweet spot of how long is it you know, how can I make it not so sweet, but also make it not melt so quickly? And then what temperature, what temperature is it really best served at? You know what I mean?
+
+[49:48] Yeah, we we experimented with the banana daiquiri um because you know the tough part about that drink is like you don't necessarily want the bananas to be frozen. You know, you can freeze them and then unfreeze them to get like some better sugars and stuff. But um with that one, we actually froze the spirit before doing it, which which dropped the temperature a lot more. Right, but it's it's helpful depending on what you're gonna add. Yeah.
+
+[50:12] You know what I mean? Yeah. Um uh asks uh about drink mixers and spindle blenders. Hamilton Beach has a couple of sub 100 dollars. Are they good enough for occasional home use?
+
+[50:25] Oh, absolutely. Sure. Yeah. We we also just did a shift at the Berkshire Room in Chicago where those were the only ones I used and it was fine. Yeah.
+
+[50:34] And in a similar uh thing, Paul Gersman writes in with what would your preferred alternative method for flash blending a drink geared towards home enthusiasts without counter space for a drink mixer? I've seen a couple of folks recommend an immersion blender, but it seems likely to overmix the drink. Uh no, use the immersion, but just be be wary that there is a blade on the end of it, and to you like basically like three pulses and you're good. Hey, you want me to make you an attachment for a stick blender that's a that's a yes, because it's totally doable. Yeah, yes.
+
+[51:03] Like a very minor cage, like a very minor cage. How fast do those guys go? The spindle blenders. Uh I'll I'll show I mean the the old Hamilton's were pretty strong. Well, I mean, like, but are they the same speed as a blender or does it need to be geared?
+
+[51:18] No, it's basically the same speed. So you just need a disc attachment for uh a stick blender. Yeah. That's no problem. What you do is you buy a BAMEX.
+
+[51:26] BAMEX might already make actually have you ever tried the cream discs on a Bamix? No, I don't know what a cream disc is. Oh, so BAMEX, who I don't actually like their uh uh their stick blenders because they're they got a little bit of flex, even though they look kind of robo and they don't pop off, they screw off, right? But they sell uh one of their things is like it looks like a disc on the end. They have interchangeable heads, right?
+
+[51:51] I've never tried it, but I would like to hear what you have to say. And in fact, I might have one somewhere. Anyway, so you and it comes with it, package, right? And you put the disc on and you're meant to whip cream with it. Oh, okay.
+
+[52:03] So I wonder whether it would perform the same thing and it doesn't have a blade, so you might be able to take that thing on a check uh on a carry-on. Yeah, that's the thing. I I brought an immersion blender to who get well I I checked it. Oh but but uh I needed a flash blend a hundred drinks. So instead of bringing the big blender down, I just brought the you know, and I just pulsed it.
+
+[52:24] I mean, if you do it, if you kind of cut your time to like three seconds, and you know, if you don't have crushed ice, it actually works even better because if you have like crappy deli ice, you can actually break the i the ice up a little bit. Try the Bamics because I in my mind also it has uh it doesn't have a full cage, so like it does not a bell, it's more of a cage, so you can actually get more like a spindle blender kind of uh action on it. Yeah, just check it out. Let me know. And we'll let these let these folks know.
+
+[52:51] Um that was Paul Gersman on blending, and we have one other blending thing. Someone wants I've been playing with vacuum blending. So uh Andrew Cummings wants to know, uh I recently looked at Void Blender System, Void Systems Blender. What do you think of the blender compared to Vitamix for non-vacuu? Well, just quickly, their their blender, the problem with the void blender is it's loud as all get out.
+
+[53:14] The actual blender is so loud. And also the slow speed on the void is uh like 17,000 RPM. Super aggro. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[53:23] It goes between 17,000 and 30, whereas like a Vitamix goes between 1700 and 30. You know what I mean? Yeah, which sometimes you need the slow setting. Right. If you're gonna do frozen drinks, sometimes like the in the book we talk about dry blending, like you need to like melt the sugar into the juice, and like if it's going to 70,000, that's not gonna happen.
+
+[53:40] Yeah, bounce. Yeah, so it's but the pitcher is very good. I had actually initial really good luck with uh with vacuum. Have you played with vacuum blending at all? No.
+
+[53:49] Yeah. So I had some I had some initial good luck because you know, I'm trying to figure out ways that people don't need to get LN to get good results. And like all my side-by-sides between liquid nitrogen and blending, liquid nitrogen always wins by a little bit. So my initial tests with the vacuum blender were with mint, and I was able to va vacuum blend mint drinks and have them be good, which is you know, crazy. I did say I did like a s like a nitro south side and it was like really good.
+
+[54:11] Uh well, not nitro, you know, blender model. But then I had people over and I did Thai basils, which is a little more sturdy of an herb with regular not vacuum and vacuum, same blender pitcher, just with and without a vacuum. And I thought I could tell the difference, but I serve it to a bunch of people and they couldn't tell the difference. Nice. So I need to I need to like figure out, I need to run some more tests.
+
+[54:33] I still haven't made you the Thai basil drink in the book. No, well next time next time I come over, next time I come over. All right. So that I think we uh covered in some other blending. Billy Thunder wants to know uh how do you harvest a citrus peel for oleos in the book?
+
+[54:46] You say use a knife and not a peeler, and quoting you cut the citrus peels with a knife to retain the oils and the peels, uh while faster appealer expresses oils from the peel when cutting to the fruit, and we want the oils to stay where they are, so knife is preferred. Why not just use more peel then? How you actually measured it, have you done the taste difference? Uh no, the I have. Yeah, there's the taste difference, it's not so much, it's just more extraction.
+
+[55:07] So yeah, you're right. You could you could use more of peeled, but it's also if you're just Well, Billy wants to know do you just uh do you just juice a fruit and cut the flesh out and leave on a lot of pit, uh pith? No, you always take the peel first anyway. Peel first. Or do you iron chef style just uh the citrus with a knife and retain a little bit?
+
+[55:26] In other words, do you flip it over and take the white off? No, we always peel first and then juice. Yeah, I just I would just add a couple extra freaking peels, man. Use the PP peelers so fast. Yeah.
+
+[55:36] Peelers so fast. Well, if you have a really good uh the reason we wrote that is because most people don't have like really good thick peelers. They have like the, you know, I'm not gonna name a brand, but you know which ones. Where and and then all the oil just spills out of those and you get like very little extraction. So you just wasted your time.
+
+[55:55] Yeah. Garrett's like, if you have a really good prep person, then a knife's not a problem. Hey, most most oleos for years, I was doing all of that for every single event. Oh no, me. No one's calling you lazy.
+
+[56:07] All right, JPM. Can you share a bit about forced carbonation stations and existing conditions? I know it's been talked about in the show briefly, but haven't found any information on what's involved, and for Garrett, we'll talk about that later, JPM, because we don't have a lot of time unless Garrett wants to talk about it. Also for Garrett, I know you mentioned forced carbonation in a bar when talking about the Kingston Zing, but opt for adding carbonation in the form of soda water to make it more accessible. Yeah.
+
+[56:25] Is this how you would serve it? Uh or the Pims Tropic uh Pins Tropical at the Sunken Harbor, too. That's good. Your PIM's strong. It's good.
+
+[56:34] Yeah. I sent an I sent an English I sent an English lady with it. Ben and I met at Norton's 100 year anniversary. Oh, to have it. And she was like, I I don't like PIMs.
+
+[56:43] I was like, You're wrong. Why don't you go to Sunken Harbor? You're not wrong. You can't say you don't like it until you've had the one from Sunken Carbon. It's not on the menu anymore.
+
+[56:50] Ben is not right or wrong. You can't say you don't like the drink if you've only had the iterations. She was closed-minded to the idea. Yeah. But I think that's a mistake.
+
+[56:58] I think it is. Yeah. Well, Ben has been really good at some of these events of like, you know, people are like, I don't like passion fruit, and he's like, Yeah, but Garrett knows how to use it properly, and then like wins those people over. JPM wants to always be closing. Jim.
+
+[57:10] Always. Oh, ABC always be closing. You gotta get you get the Alex Baldwin like brass balls behind you. To answer the question, coffee is for closed loose. Yeah.
+
+[57:19] Um cocktails are in the book, yeah. We talk about sort of a way around not setting up a carbo rig. Um at Sunken, I have a carbo rib rig. So the Kingston Zing and those types of drinks aren't are fully forced carbonated at Sunken. But in the book, there's a method of getting around that if you don't want to build that whole thing.
+
+[57:36] So Henry Batts wants to know uh what your favorite non-rum tiki drinks are. I mean, there's a whole book full of them. The Saturn is one of the few that come to mind. Yeah, but Henry wants to be a big thing. Part of the idea of this book is you know to show the tropical drinks are a big tent.
+
+[57:51] It's not just about you know, rum for the bigger. I actually really love um I like scotch a lot and tropical drinks. Uh there's there's an old Trader Vic drink in the in the book called the London Sour, um, that I think is very refreshing. Like almond and almond and certain scotches is great together. Nutty, nutty scotch.
+
+[58:10] Scott scotch. We I used to do a distillation of blended scotch and peanuts. Yeah, so there you go. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[58:15] Doers and nuts. Yeah. Uh Nils Nils Norn and I used to do that because he he actually is a famous grouse man. I think maybe Famous Grouse is more popular as an inexpensive blended scotch. Yeah, I feel like I don't see it as often anymore.
+
+[58:27] I like I like the grouse. Yeah, yeah. It's famous. The grouse. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[58:31] Uh John the Hutt. Uh so uh he had an issue. See if you've ever had this happen. He had this uh Anis drink, Anis del Mono, which I've never tried. Oh, from Spain?
+
+[58:42] Yeah, the red label, not the green. Had it in his freezer at minus 20 Celsius. Since I don't have ice, I mixed it with water from the tap, which is about 20 again Celsius. Instead of loosing, it's separated into bizarre crystals and formed a layer at the top of the glass. I do not recommend eating those crystals.
+
+[58:55] What happened? I've never heard of this happening. You ever heard of this happening? No, I I mean there's not enough ABV for it to survive the freezer. So what?
+
+[59:03] No, but I mean the Annas I've never like why would it form crystals? There's gotta be something weird in there. John the Hutt, there's gotta be something like sugar? I mean I don't know. No, but sugar wouldn't crystallize out like that.
+
+[59:12] I don't know what the hell's happening. I gotta be, I don't know what's going on. Uh Alexander Talgard writes in Oh, that's not how he pronounced it. Wait, wait, wait. I got one more question.
+
+[59:20] All right, what do you got? What do you got? Uh Rojo S. Um regarding salt and drinks, I'm interested in reducing the number of bottle touches during service. If I have a syrup or other ingredient used in one specific cocktail, is there any reason I shouldn't just do bits with the appropriate level of salt?
+
+[59:44] That's what I do at events. Uh okay. So do if you had to do it, do it after the syrup is 100% complete. Because if you do it before that, it's gonna screw up the bricks, right? Well, so for low percentages, like for low percentages, salt adds about one bricks level per percent salt.
+
+[1:00:05] It happens to be about the same, right? So you're not gonna affect it drastically. Same with acids. Acids don't affect it as much as I thought. I did a bunch of I've been having to reread a bunch of this crap.
+
+[1:00:15] Yeah. Um, but yeah, I would add to the problem with adding it to syrup in general is then if you have a low syrup drink that uses a lot of a modifier, right? Then your ratios aren't gonna be the same. I think at a bar, like if you're gonna be doing a bunch of drinks with salt, then a couple of droppers looks good. But if you really need to minimize touches, yeah, syrup.
+
+[1:00:34] Also, just like what if you want to reduce the sweetener for an individual guest, then it's gonna it's you're you're you're combining two things that aren't don't necessarily like relate to each other. Right. Uh okay. So uh do you you want to talk about uh orjah or you want me to save or jah? You have a big sorja question.
+
+[1:00:51] Well he wants to make uh Alexander wants to make an orjah from plum kernels and wants to talk a lot about cyanide and whether it's save that question. All right. Uh we're not taking legal questions. Yeah, all right. So uh so in the one minute and twenty four seconds that is left to us, what do you want to talk about about what you've been doing and what you haven't been doing?
+
+[1:01:07] We didn't get to. We'll all be at Tails. Yeah. You guys are doing uh a talk. We've got book signings a couple times.
+
+[1:01:13] We're doing an event on Thursday afternoon at Palm and Pine where you can come and have some of Garrett's drinks if you're gonna be at Tales of the Cocktail this July. Oh, wait, wait, but they're coming, but they most people won't hear it until after because it goes live for people who aren't Patreon. But if you're in the Patreon, you're gonna be able to do it. Listen going live this week? Goes live front.
+
+[1:01:27] Well, you said it's this Thursday or next Thursday? No, no, no. Oh, uh, oh, oh, oh. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[1:01:31] Our talk at Tales of the Cocktail is about uh the daiquary. Dackery deep dive. Yeah. And then yeah, Ben and I were gonna do uh book signing and a bar takeover. I've been cheating.
+
+[1:01:40] I've been doing the testing. Good, you should. Yeah. Be prepared. Well, so what we're testing is sugar versus simple syrup versus rich simple.
+
+[1:01:49] Or I don't even know how many of them we're doing. That's the one of the main tests. And can I tell you a spoiler because I've been doing a lot of work? Yeah. Okay.
+
+[1:01:56] So most people, it was very marginal. Most people preferred the rich. Interesting. They didn't tell that much of a difference between rich and sugar. And when you look at the numbers, uh 88.
+
+[1:02:11] So like if you add if you add one milliliter of one milliliter of rich simple, two to one, is uh eight, eighty-eight is.88 grams of sugar. All right. That's the preview for the for the seminar, but only 0.4 of water. So now I don't have to come to the seminar. That's it.
+
+[1:02:28] You're done. Okay, good. Uh but I actually preferred the uh one-to-one because I like my drinks a little less alcohol, like I like a little more diluted. But there's a little bit of a of a weird McGill because like when you shift uh dilutions, you also want to shift sugar. So Shannon, who's one of our talkers, has very low sugar on her sugar things.
+
+[1:02:47] Yeah. And because there's less dilution, it can probably tolerate less sugar and higher acid. So it's kind of an interesting little interplay. A lot for us to talk about at Tales of the Cocktail. Yeah.
+
+[1:02:55] All right. Yeah, I'm I'm excited. All right. Well, thanks for coming on. Tropical standard.
+
+[1:03:00] Go buy the book, buy it at Kitchen Arts and Letters, or buy it at you know, McNally Jackson, buy it. But you know, if you have to buy it off of Amazon, buy it off of Amazon. Whatever. Whatever, man. Just buy it.
+
+[1:03:08] Yeah. Yeah. Just buy the book. Have fun and go to Sunken Harbor. Thanks, guys.
+
+[1:03:12] Yeah, thank you, Dave. Thanks, Dave. Cooking issues.
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+[0:10] Hello and welcome to Cookie Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City. New Stan Studios. Joined as usual with John over here in front of me. How you doing?
+
+[0:21] Doing great things? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[0:24] Yeah. Nahulin it up strong. Yeah, as always. Yeah. Trying to.
+
+[0:27] Yeah. Chefing it. Yeah. Doing it, you know. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[0:30] Grooving, moving. Yeah. Loving the busy summer. It's great. New York City this summer time.
+
+[0:34] Oh my God. And we'll talk about it later. Yeah. Uh got uh Joe Hazen rocking the panels. How you doing?
+
+[0:39] I'm doing well, man. Yeah. Looking good over here. Yeah, I'm um I'm soupy, real soupy today. Yeah.
+
+[0:46] Saw some guys moving a refrigerator down the street and I was like, I was biking past them. I was feeling like all soupy, and I'm like, that's real soup right there. Put that soup in the fridge when you're done. Oh. Nasty.
+
+[0:57] You know how like there's these hills in Manhattan? And they're like on that big hand truck and they're wheeling this giant rich person fridge up the street and it's like up a hill, but the sidewalk's all F so they can't be on the sidewalk, so they're in the street, so there's a truck behind them laying on the horn. Uh-huh. And they're just staring at the ground with sweat dripping off their faces. Yeah, baby.
+
+[1:16] It's very musical. Yeah, that's why we live here. Yeah. You know, I have to say, nothing's more convenient than New York City. Am I right?
+
+[1:25] Totally. New York City is a great place if you have a lot of money and don't have to do anything. Yeah. Yeah. Very good way of putting it.
+
+[1:33] Yeah. Very accurate. Yeah. Uh coming to us from, I believe, Stanford, Connecticut, on the coastline of the uh sound. We got Nastasia the Hammer Lopez.
+
+[1:42] How you doing? I'm good. How are you? Doing well. Doing well.
+
+[1:47] And it's not it's not very windy, so you must be okay, right? Jack and I are trading places when, Jack? Like next week? The week after. Uh yeah, like the 21st or twenty second.
+
+[1:58] We'll be trading places. So which one of you is Nick Nolte? And which one of you is Eddie Murphy? Oh god, I guess. Oh.
+
+[2:07] I don't do blackface. Wow. So wow. So you're saying that Jack does. That's what's messed up about that.
+
+[2:14] Wow. You're also not technically white. So that makes it fine, is what you're saying. Both of you are saying some really effed up stuff. So just gonna leave it at leave it at that.
+
+[2:30] And uh Jackie Molecules, uh how's uh how's Los Angeles doing? It's great. Yeah. It is very good. I uh very quickly I'll say I I very recently with my girlfriend went to go see our friend Austin Hennley at Cato Restaurant.
+
+[2:45] Um I interviewed him for a story I'm doing on NA drinks, and went and had the tasting menu at Cato with his NA pairing, which was really, really, really good. He's doing some super interesting things there. Now I know we discussed with him on the show, I think on the show, we discussed with Austin, wasn't he on the show? Didn't we discuss with him? Maybe yeah, yeah.
+
+[3:08] Yeah. And uh briefly. Yeah, yeah. And uh and I asked him why it was called Kato. Why is it called Kato again?
+
+[3:16] Oh, I couldn't tell you that. But it's not named after the racist character from the Pink Panther series. And as a follow-up, has Peter Sellers ever been in a movie that wasn't like completely crazy racist. I'm in Washington being there, wasn't it? I'm sure it was.
+
+[3:39] I'm sure if we went and we rewatched it, there'd be some crazy racism in it. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. It was the 70s. I also can't remember Strange Love, whether there was anything like out of the ordinary and strange love.
+
+[3:51] Anyway, and uh in the upper upper left left, Quinn, how you doing? Hey, I'm good. All right, so since we've last been uh all together, it's been Canada Day. Which which when's Canada Day, Quinn? It's uh July 1st.
+
+[4:07] They're like, when can we put a day that's like a little bit before the American one? Just a little bit, but kind of on the same day. Is that what happened? Is that how Canada Day started? I mean, I think there was like when we asked nicely, like, hey Britain, can we just like be regular?
+
+[4:25] And they're like, sure. They're like, yeah, that's fine. Yeah. They're like, please. All right.
+
+[4:32] Yeah. And you and you made it, you arranged it so it would be like three days before our thing, so you could be like, well, our our crap comes first. I guess. And do you have fireworks on Canada Day? Uh yeah, usually.
+
+[4:46] I don't think there were many this year because of wildfires. Hmm. Hmm. I see well in my area. But they have wildfires over on your side too.
+
+[4:59] Is all of Canada on fire right now? I think less so than a few weeks ago. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah.
+
+[5:09] The smoke made it all the way over to Europe. I swear. I was I just flew back from Copenhagen like two days ago. I flew back on Sunday. Uh more on that in a minute.
+
+[5:16] Uh, but uh I could swear I saw like a tinge in the sky when I was flying from your from your fire still. Yeah. Well, you know, uh, you gotta love a worldwide climate catastrophe. Uh all right. So now is the time, since it is a no tangent Tuesday, when we discuss anything that's happened over the past week or so that was interesting from a food perspective.
+
+[5:37] Anything? What do you guys got? Nothing. Man, nothing. Yeah.
+
+[5:43] Well, you know, I had the the NA drinks at Cato. And one thing that Austin was doing that was super, super interesting was steeping um NA wine in kombu to add body to it. How was it was really good. It was I'm I don't generally like NA drinks. I think they usually just taste like juice or kombucha.
+
+[6:05] But um using some really interesting things. Can I ask you uh shout out the bartender? Can I ask you a separate question? Do you like kombucha? Uh yeah, I do.
+
+[6:17] But like if I'm having a pairing with a meal, I don't really I'm not craving kombucha. You know? Yeah. Uh I generally and I think it's because of my uh honestly it's because of my age. But like uh in general, I like v like vinegary things on their own, but with food I generally don't want like a vinegary beverage and most kombucha shade like pretty hard on the acetic side.
+
+[6:44] And uh yeah, I just don't necessarily want that with my food very much. What do you mean? That's what I feel. What if you made kombucha with combu to get the same effect? I get your joke.
+
+[6:59] Combubucha, but uh I don't know, it's just not my thing. It's not not what I you know, when I want to add body to something, I just cheat and add glycerin, 'cause you know, that's me. Glycerin. Straight up. You know what I mean?
+
+[7:11] Like, or like you know, I mean, like, I mean, the thing is you'd have to choose a very particular you know how like some wines have like a seaweed hit to them, right? So you could choose a wine like that to hit up, but m most of the time I don't necessarily want a big old seaweed kelpie hit on my you didn't really taste that though, weirdly. Uh it didn't the t the flavor didn't come through as much as sort of just like the body, if that makes sense. You ever walk down the beach, Jack, and just pick up a piece of kelp and go all the time. Yeah.
+
+[7:51] I mean, I actually have, but uh you know. Anyway, uh I mean I like kelp's a good product, man. In fact, I have some kelp for us to taste in a minute. You know, those of us that are in the studio, we got some some kelp action. Uh I'm sorry, Dave.
+
+[8:07] I can't allow that. Wow. Yeah, we got the we got the 2001 Space Odyssey Hal. What was it? Hal, what, 9,000?
+
+[8:15] I don't remember. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my oh my god, oh my god. We gotta get Harold McGee, who goes by Hal to a lot of people.
+
+[8:22] Uh-huh. Right? I don't call him Hal. Stas, do you call him Hal? No, no.
+
+[8:28] No, me either. But like I think you need to, if you're over 60, you call him Hal. If you're over 60 and you're actually a friend of his, you call him Hal. If you're under 60 and you're and you're a friend of his, you think you call him Harold. You know what I mean?
+
+[8:41] You think that's how it works? Is that what you're gonna do when you're turning 60? No, no, no. The age keeps going. Okay.
+
+[8:48] The age just keeps shifting up. Gotcha. I think. You know what I mean? It's one of those things where, like, if you were born before this day, must be this high to ride this line, or you know, whatever, whatever it is.
+
+[8:59] Oh. Speaking of which, I was in Copenhagen for the past uh couple of days. A lot of food crap to report. You want to hear some have you ever been to Copenhagen? No, I have not.
+
+[9:07] Any of you other fools ever been to Copenhagen? No. All right. No, no. So first thing, Danish is a weird language.
+
+[9:22] So I texted Nils, Norrin, you know, and I was like, Nils, I said, what the hell's wrong with these people? They sound they sound kind of bananas. And he's like, yeah, growing up we used to make fun of them because they all sound like they're talking with porridge in their mouth. So you can't pronounce anything like either like it's Swedish or like it's German. It's something in between.
+
+[9:40] So I'm not even gonna bother trying to pronounce the Danish words. You know what I'm saying? So the Danish national dish is this thing with it's it's like S it's like it it looks like it's sm like s'more broad if you were if you were English, but it's like smrbirt or something like that. You know what I mean? Like anyway, and it's like this buttered, like dense rye bread with like stuff on, right?
+
+[10:03] And like their big thing is like lunch, right? So you get it at lunch at like with beer and like a little schnapps glass, right? So there's this place we went for that called like I'm not gonna get the I don't know whether they pronounce it schnapps like the German or like snaps. I don't know what the heck the Danish do, but the place is called Tolden Schnapps, like customs and schnapps. And you go in there and you order your your three things, right?
+
+[10:26] Then I got the I started with the herring, because of course I started with herring, right? And then I moved on to their the crispy pork, which I'm gonna talk about in a minute because they have a genius the Danes have a genius crispy pork situation, which I think I can't believe that A, I didn't already know about it, and B that not everyone in the world has taken this on. Like for any of you like uh Italian adjacent folks out there, this would be a genius way to do a Porchetta. Like this should be the way Porquetta is done. All right?
+
+[10:56] So Quinn, take note. Ready? Okay. Take are you taking note? In my mind.
+
+[11:03] Okay. So uh what they do is they t they take a uh pork chop, they do like a pork chop, loin chop, right? Not the tenderloin, please, right? And then uh they take the bone off. Then they instead of doing like pricking the skin or scoring it like with an X hatch pattern, they cut long strips into the skin down into the fat at the interval they're gonna slice it later.
+
+[11:34] Are you with me on the genius yet? Yeah. So they basically pre-cut it, not into the meat, but like all the way down three quarters through the fat. We're getting fish bowl. Hey guys.
+
+[11:43] Yeah. Yeah, you you cut you cut down through the fat, uh, all almost to the meat, and then you salt the bee Jesus out of it, right? And then sometimes people put like herbs in between the slices and stuff. Then you put it in a dish over liquid and you roast it like you're doing like a roast pork, and then at the end you crank it so that the skin gets all crackly and crispy and delicious, right? Mm-hmm.
+
+[12:04] And then when you take it out, you just slice right into the lines that you pre-cut in the skin. You're not going through anything crispy with your knife, so you get perfect slices with a perfect layer of crackling over the whole thing. Is that not the smartest thing of all time? Yeah. Clever.
+
+[12:18] Amazing. Yeah. So Quinn, when are you gonna make I know you know this is the kind of thing you like to do? When are you gonna make a porchetta and do the do the Danish porchetta? Do Danish cut porchetta.
+
+[12:27] Uh I'll put it on the list. Uh I'm sorry. That's gotta get bumped way up on the list. I mean I mean, first of all, is there any living person who eats pork who doesn't like porchetta? No, but no.
+
+[12:43] And is there anyone who doesn't kind of wish that every slice had the magic, the magic skin on it? I'm just saying. Yeah. Yeah. So Quinn, I mean, like, I don't know.
+
+[12:56] This seems to me to be this needs to get bumped up, you know. You know, I think above lactic acid gel uh la lactic uh lactose gelato. I think this needs to get bumped above lactose gelato. I mean the lactose gelato is is done. Okay.
+
+[13:12] How was the lactose gelato? No, I'm not pure lactose. I mean for those of you that don't know, Quinn's obsessed with using lactose as an actual sweetener. He's like, I'm not allergic to it, so I'm just gonna jack this with as much lactose as a human literally, literally as much lactose as is humanly possible, right? In into his so you think you could add more without it?
+
+[13:33] Because like people don't put lactose into people don't add, in fact, people like there's a maximum amount of milk powder, dry milk powder that people will put in to dope up the solids of an ice cream because they're worried that too much lactose is gonna cause uh sanding crystallization. Uh so they don't do it. But Quinn is like, I'm gonna push the lactose as far as I can go. And can you tell any difference? Are you like, man, I wish everything on earth was sweetened with lactose?
+
+[14:02] No, not everything, but I think it's a good flavor. I also again vehemently disagree with every reported sweetness number for lactose. But every sweetness number ever reported for anything is wrong. Didn't we go through this on the air a couple times ago? I know, but like every single thing is wrong.
+
+[14:23] Like they're all wrong. Unless somebody said we did a test of all of the sweeteners at the concentrations of interest in the vehicle of interest at the temperature of interest. That's the only time it makes sense. Right? So like, because the relative sweetness, first of all, the absolute sweetness of sucrose changes with temperature.
+
+[14:45] And the relative sweetness of sucrose to other things changes also as temperature and also their absolute sweetness changes as a function of temperature. So it's like, and concentration. So the the more concentration there is on a sugar, right, the closer it gets in sweetness to sucrose on a concentration percentage basis. So in minor amounts, I'm sure lact the lactose numbers are probably correct. And in huge amounts that are over way over and above any sort of number that any normal person puts into their ice cream, then I'm sure the numbers are completely wrong.
+
+[15:21] I think they're rolling in trace members well, though. You know. Report back, man. Report back. You gotta report back.
+
+[15:29] Everyone else has worked on other problems getting rid of the lactose, and Quinn's like, I'll buy your lactose. You get rid of your lactose, I'll take it. I'll take it by the truckload. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[15:39] Lactose, man. Hey, speaking of lactose, I discovered something a little disconcerting before I get back to uh Danish McDaneland. Uh the lactic acid powder that you buy that I've been recommending to people to buy for years is garbage. Uh it is not pure. So, and here's what's uh fun.
+
+[16:02] You want to know the fun fact? Yeah. The fun fact is is that it's not pure, it's not impure by a known amount. So, like the lactic acid powder that Modernist Pantry sells, I think is a higher purity than the one that you get at Calustian's. The one at Calustian's, because I was doing acid percentage tests, like, you know, I was making like little like uh uh, you know, water, sugar acid mixes for Dax to test out, and I couldn't get any reasonable lactic acid percentage to be equi, equis sour, right, to uh, you know, tartaric, malic, citric on their own, right?
+
+[16:39] And I was like, what the heck's going on? And then it struck me. Lactic acid is not is not going to form crystals, right? But whenever you make champagne acid, which is a mixture of tartaric acid and lactic acid, it always forms crystals in the in the acid in the fridge over time and causes problems when you're carbonating, right? And what happens is they jack it with calcium lactate and they don't tell you how much.
+
+[17:07] So until people start writing, I'm gonna call modernist pantry, Lord Quinn, text them, tell them to write the per the actual percentage of what their product of lactic acid is. Because otherwise, I'm gonna have to recommend that everyone go buy the liquid lac lactic acid, which is what I now have to do. Lactic acid eighty, eighty-eight percent. But what pain in the butt, what a pain in the butt. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[17:29] Yeah. It's like, uh. Just sucks. Yeah. And why calcium lactate?
+
+[17:35] If you have to put some sort of filler in it, why not just like I don't know, maltodextrin or something? I don't know, ridiculous. Ridiculous. Absurd. Jerks.
+
+[17:43] It's a problem we can all relate to. Yeah. Yeah. Well, anyone that does acid adjusting. Yeah.
+
+[17:44] If anyone on earth can relate to it, it's our audience. You know what I'm saying? That's true. Uh, yeah. All right.
+
+[17:54] So also I tried their, get this. They call this a French hot dog in in Copenhagen. So they take this kind of I'm gonna throw some scare quotes around it, baguette, right? With a hole in it, right? It's the most suggestive thing in the world.
+
+[18:08] So like you ask for a French hot dog, and they're like, you know, and you and the their hot dogs are like super longs. They're like super long hot dogs. You know what I mean? Not like a regular ballpark franc, super longs. And they're like, I'm like, they're like, what what sauce do you want?
+
+[18:24] I'm like, I don't know. How am I supposed to take it? And they're like, locals get the mayo. And I'm like, okay. Yeah.
+
+[18:30] So they take this freaking baguette and they shove the the the sauce in and they go. And then they take the hot dog and they go sploo right into it, and the mayonnaise until the mayonnaise comes out of the freaking hole next to the hot dog. And I'm like, really? Really? Really?
+
+[18:50] That's my least favorite part about that style of hot dog is the condiment just like comes out of that whole constantly. There's nowhere for it to like overflow to it. Just becomes really messy. Yeah. I mean, I don't know why they don't have like two halves and they're like and you can go boom, like like like you're putting it in a sheath, like bang.
+
+[19:08] So it's just baguette, like just baguette, because somebody commented on Instagram, yo, what's up with uh that whole tip? No meat. I mean, no sauce. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[19:20] Yeah. Anyway. Uh what else? What else to have there? Oh, yeah, I went to NOMA.
+
+[19:26] Yeah. Fancy. Yeah, super fancy. So I went to NOMA 2.0. Uh we were first in, last out.
+
+[19:33] So we showed up a little before six and didn't roll out of that place until midnight. And uh I have to say, I went in kind of wanting to be a little bit of a hater. And it was a fantastic, fantastic, crazy fantastic meal. It was nuts. That was going to be my off-air question for you.
+
+[19:56] Was what's your thought? But it sounds like it was very, very good. Yeah. Well, so here's the thing. Now, Jen took pictures of every course.
+
+[20:03] I didn't, because I'm not pulling my camera out at a freaking at a restaurant, right? But she took pictures of every course. Is it okay for me to post a picture of all the courses, you think? Of course. Yeah?
+
+[20:13] Yeah, why not? I don't know. So maybe I'll do that. I'll post a picture of all of all the courses. But I mean, I've been to plenty of tasting menus in my life, and I've been to plenty of like kind of over-the-top places, but I haven't been to one of the places where the staff to guess ratio is basically one to one.
+
+[20:34] Oh wow. Yeah. They have like 80 something people that work there, you know, and they do 80 covers. Or 80-something covers. So when you go there, it's on the very, it's the very edge of like it's like on the water, kind of with like a big garden thing in in Copenhagen, northern part of Copenhagen.
+
+[20:57] And uh you come into a greenhouse and you sit and they give you a pear, apple, quince, cider to sit, and you're sitting in the greenhouse while you get ready. When you go to the bathroom, a person takes because I've been walking around all day. Like well, I've been walking all day. So I'm gross as hell. I'm like, I want to go freshen up.
+
+[21:18] So I go to the bathroom, and the person who takes me to the bathroom is waiting for me when I leave. And I was like, oh Jesus! Oh my god. So like uh like certain like of this high high level service stuff kind of gets to me, you know what I mean? And then when they took us into the dining room, the entire, and of course it's all beautiful because this was built for Noma.
+
+[21:35] No between them. When you go in, and of course the kitchen's crazy beautiful. Although I I'm I heard that the hoods don't work as well as they want. So they do frying in a different room because the hoods are non-visually invasive, so they're up on the ceiling. Oh, okay.
+
+[21:49] And the extraction, they don't like the extraction enough to do uh frying up there. Yeah, yeah. So you go in and then the entire staff is lined up when you go in welcoming you. And again, I'm like, oh my God. You know what I mean?
+
+[22:03] Yeah. But when you sit, man, and like we did the, of course, we did the wine pairing, and they, of course, they just have crazy bananas, crazy banana stuff. Like to give you some uh ideas, like um, they pick all these beach roses and then they put like a gelee into the beach rose that uh has raspberry that they get there. The actual combination, and and they take remove all of the thorns and everything in it so that you just pick up the rose and and eat the whole thing, like with the with the leaves, you grab it like it's a strawberry, like a strawberry, and you eat it. But it's not like a like a rose from the supermarket.
+
+[22:37] It's like if you ever picked up a beach rose, it'll like rip your fingers apart because of all the thorns. So they strip it all off. Kind of tasted like Ispahan, actually. You know, that flavor, Pierre May's like Ispahan, which is lychee, raspberry, and rose. It's like one of his famous flavors.
+
+[22:50] It's delicious, frankly, ispahan. So I was like super psyched. Stuff like that. They they cooked a pine cone for like eight billion years until you could eat the pine cone. You know what I mean?
+
+[22:58] Yeah. And they served that on the end of like perfect like tree foil, like um pine like thing. They had a lot of pine actually. They did a uh a an early pine needle butter to like di and they did uh locally grown bamboo, which is real thin, that they shaved off to make look like asparagus, but they put the outside of the bamboo as a handle, and you dip it into this like spring pine needle butter. I was like, it was real good.
+
+[23:27] It's a real real good. You know what I mean? Like when they they did a uh a course which was uh you know, earmuffs, but they like ramp leaves, pickled ramp leaves, which they've been doing for years, but on the inside they had some uh uh barley miso that they had made with barley, and they bring out the big, you know, uh koji, rather, not miso. Uh they bring out the big like barley koji mat that looks like a quilt and they have it in front of you while you're eating, and you know, and the thing that they skewer the pine cone on, they shave off the they shave off the bark on the one section so it's like a perfect toothpick, and then they angle the end perfectly so that it's like there's there's no friction or anything. Everything is all perfect.
+
+[24:06] His little flower soup. We had his flower soup, we had his meringue basket, all the stuff. And uh Kevin, who runs who you know, is the kind of new Ariel, I think he has the same position that Ariel and Zilber had. Okay. Uh with the fermentation lab, gave us a full tour afterwards.
+
+[24:24] Oh my god. That's probably really cool. Oh, yeah. You know what? I was like, like I said, I went in and wanted to be like, how good could it be?
+
+[24:32] And I was like, it's really, really, really good. You know, but I understand also the idea that it's not sustainable because you're like, is this end times? Is this what it was like to be like an emperor? Or is this what it was like to be one of those gilded age weasels or like somebody from succession that can just have whatever they want whenever they want it? It's like it's because it's not reasonable to have that many people working on the problem of your dinner.
+
+[25:00] You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, in life. I mean, I was super happy to be there. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[25:04] Yeah, blessed to be there. But it was like, you know, anyway. So I brought some of their their uh Noma Project stuff to uh exciting. Yeah. Let's do it.
+
+[25:13] Let's taste it up. All right. So this is uh, this is their and I'll I have uh I brought stuff I have copies of, so you can take these uh with you to the restaurant, John. Yeah. So this is uh Dashi uh RDX, and so this is a mixture of uh, what is it?
+
+[25:28] It's kambu, tell your boy Austin, our boy us. Uh kombu dashi, katsobushi, sake, uh, and like their mushroom garum that is then kind of reduced out. And I'm also just tasting it for the first time. So Joe, you want a little taste of this here? Sure.
+
+[25:46] Yeah. I don't know how much you want. We got more if you need. But I think they're starting to sell this. I think this is the kind of stuff they're gonna be working on when they shut down the restaurant proper.
+
+[25:55] Yeah. You know, so uh you guys taste first, tell me what you think. It's real syrupy, it's got like the consistency of like a mid-grade uh balsamic. It's good that one is already for sale, or it will be very soon. Yeah, but I mean, in other words, that's what they're gonna do for a living, because they're not gonna have a restaurant anymore.
+
+[26:14] Yeah. That's real good. Yep, that's really good. So this balance of sweet. Yeah, it to me it is a finishing product in that you'd want like a it's not like a super salt punch in the face, so you're not using it to season, you're using it more as like a flavoring.
+
+[26:29] What do you guys think? Yeah, it's it'll like round things out. Yeah. Like that sweetness back there, too. Right.
+
+[26:29] Right. Yeah, it's got like almost like a mirror level of sweetness. Yeah. Um the salt level is medium. Mushroom really hits hard.
+
+[26:47] Yeah, it does. Not in a bad way. No, no, no. Not a bad way at all. They did a lot of stuff with King Oyster mushrooms.
+
+[26:53] They did a thing where they hollowed out a you know, King Oyster mushrooms, what they look like, right? They you know that big stick thing. Yeah. So they did something where they cut a line down it and then they cut out the whole middle pith of it, and then they slashed it on the skin side a zillion times so that you could eat it so it wouldn't be fibery and stringy. They did another thing where they fried these flowers where they only fried the tips of the flowers, but it was real short, so someone had to sit there and hold each flour in the fryer on its own until it was done.
+
+[27:25] And then by the way, the Danes have a good fried parsley game. If you like to go to a place that has a good fried parsley game, the Danes in there makes it so good. I don't know, they do it a lot. It's the the oil is perfect, it's not great, you know, it's not uh doesn't taste like the oil must be only for fried parsley. I don't know what it is because it doesn't you know what I mean?
+
+[27:43] Yeah you know how like bad fried parsley is like taste like whatever they fried beforehand like nasty. Anyway, fried parsley game on point. Yeah, uh so anyway. So that was uh no much. What else we got?
+
+[27:54] What else did they give us here? Oh little uh sweet kelp salt. It's a very kelpie, it's a very kelpie day, folks. It's kelpie, kelpy kelp, kelp and the kelp kelps. I didn't bring the whiskey vinegar, which I heard is good.
+
+[28:07] That is salty. But also kelpie. It has the texture of maple sugar. Yeah. You know?
+
+[28:19] What do you guys think? Celping it up? Like a finishing thing. Yeah. I wonder how much actual kelpitude you'd get if it was if, like, depending on this is That's gonna be intense.
+
+[28:29] This is gonna be funky. So this is beef garum solids. So garum, you know, the Roman fish sauce. At Noma, they make garums with a bunch of different things. This is beef garum solids, and it looks like a cross between beef floss and haw flakes.
+
+[28:46] If you've ever eaten kind of haw flakes, you know, uh, that's what it looks like. And it's smells like uh let me see what's uh jerky. It's friable. Oh, it has a I know that flavor. What's that flavor?
+
+[29:06] I know that flavor. What's that flavor? What is it? I don't know. But you know it though.
+
+[29:17] Yeah, I want to say beef jerky, but it's also not that at all. No, there's something cereal. Oh, wow, cereal. Like there's some not cereal breakfast cereal, but like like not corn chips, but maybe something fresh. Maybe something free.
+
+[29:38] I don't know what they do. I mean, if if it's gonna be garum, then they don't need to add anything. They could just do salt and weight. But uh their term, their term for garum based on their book is a koji and protein mix. I don't know.
+
+[29:52] Anyway. This one's a little advanced for my palate. A little advanced for my palate. That's such a strong, strong way of saying something. Uh but like the um anyway, uh Kevin uh Kevin was a a dream.
+
+[30:04] Uh Ariel put us in touch. Ariel, I think got us the reservation through him. And if you guys, if any of you can like go get the res Oh, they I got to sign a brick and back. Oh, that's cool. And you know, Fabian, I saw Fabian's brick, Wiley's brick.
+
+[30:18] I signed a brick. Gotta sign a brick. Tastes a little bit like blood. That makes sense. Yeah.
+
+[30:24] Like the iron. Iron. Iron Man. Um when you think of Iron Man, do you think of Downey or do you think of um of um the song? Downey, probably.
+
+[30:36] I do the song. Yeah. I am Iron Man. That's all I think of. I guess throwing my edge again.
+
+[30:48] What do you what do you say? That song does rock. It really is good. Even Dax loves that song. Every once in a while, Dax will come by nobody wants him.
+
+[30:58] I'm like, yeah, man. I met Tom uh uh uh Tony Iomi in in South of France eating dinner once. Yeah? What happened? I sp I I I just had to come over and say hi and uh thank he was super cool.
+
+[31:12] Super cool. He was eating strawberries. Strawberries. Yep. Alright.
+
+[31:16] I like that. Oh, I'll tell you what's weird. The Pellegrino makes the beef garum pop. It does, yeah. I just noticed that.
+
+[31:25] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Alright, well anyway, uh big thanks out to the uh Noma crew and uh definitely want to go back. I missed there's one pork sandwich I didn't get to have in in Denmark, but you know, maybe I'll give you a reason to go back. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[31:39] I mean, I tried pretty much most of the other things I wanted to try. There was a question actually later on uh about recommendations for Denmark, but and they have a reservation to Noma, so whatever. I think I've covered and smothered that. Yeah, I'd say so. Yeah.
+
+[31:51] Yeah. Yeah. All right. Bought some good licorice too. Yeah.
+
+[31:55] You don't like licorice at all? Oh, did you bring any to share? No, but next time I'll bring you one. Oh, please. Uh you know, you know, Lochrid's the little Lockery candies, you like those?
+
+[32:03] Yeah. They do one with uh like licorice plus blood orange. I'll bring you one. Oh, it sounds good. It's like high high ammonia.
+
+[32:10] Oh, this one's not an ammonia one. I didn't I'll next time I'm gonna get an ammonia licorice, I'll get you the one. I love it. Yeah, I love it. I love that.
+
+[32:18] I can pound that stuff all day. Not enough like the construction worker who killed himself. Oh, uh tell more. That guy used to eat like three boxes of uh red licorice. Wiley got mad.
+
+[32:30] He's like, why do they call it red licorice? Nicorice. I'm like, Wiley, gotta not worry about these things. But like uh he's like, uh, yeah, he he was like, I'm gonna switch from red to black licorice. I guess he thought it was more healthy, which I guess it would be if you ate a reasonable quantity, but he would eat like three or four boxes a day.
+
+[32:47] I forget what it was, whether it crashes your potassium, it does something to you, and you ended up uh on the dead end of the stick. So it was not uh is not the best move. So if you're gonna eat licorice, eat it in uh, you know, reasonable quantities. I'm sorry, Dave. I can't allow that.
+
+[33:03] Exactly. You guys gotta go watch uh do you know that I haven't seen that movie since I was too young to know what the hell is going on? Same. You know, all the chimps with the bones and the screaming and the monolith. Yeah, and the also sprock Zerathrustra and homie.
+
+[33:21] That's a great tune. You know what I mean? I mean, I I I think I think that inspired that uh that whole intro scene. Was you remember that Sesame Street up a little little vignettes with the moon? It was the capital letter M.
+
+[33:35] Bum. No, I don't remember the Sesame Street. What was it with the Yep, yep, yep. Oh, those are the best. We're already working.
+
+[33:52] I love those things. If I could make my mouth do that, if I could if I had those eyes and I could make my mouth just go, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Those are the best. Good times. Uh all right.
+
+[34:03] Alexander uh wrote in, and I apologize. I had a huge long answer for you, Alexander, but it was on I wrote it out last time, because I looked it up for last time, and I don't have my old answer. I thought I saved it, but I didn't. But I'll read your question anyway, and I'll tell you what I remember from what I read. But I had gotten a bunch of stuff for you, just as you know.
+
+[34:24] Plum colonel orjah. How bad of an idea is it? Now, plum kernel, I'm assuming that what you mean here is that you're gonna take plums, you're gonna crack the hard, ridiculous thing and get just the actual seed out of the inside of the of the kernel, right? You understand what I'm saying, guys? So like imagine you have that much time in your life that you would take a bunch of plum seeds, crack them open, and get the seed out of the uh, you know, the very inner kernel out of the middle, right?
+
+[34:49] Now, all of these things, right? Plums, apricots, all of these things. They're all what's called uh cyanogenic, right? In other words, they make cyanide, right? Uh you know, H H C N is the uh chemical formula.
+
+[35:06] And uh yeah, so that's what we're talking about. How bad an idea is it? Uh I am aware of the high uh amygdalene content and the risks associated with this. So I am, of course, not talking about just making uh one from raw kernels, but rather how to reduce them and do this safely. Yes, I could just use almonds or an extract to achieve approximately the same flavor, but they don't grow here, so that kind of loses the point.
+
+[35:30] I read an article uh on Science Direct about uh reducing uh hydrogen cyanide, and also uh a blog thing from Darcy O'Neill, uh Art of Drink on cyanide and cherry, and got the idea of crushing the kernels, soaking them in 45 degrees Celsius water for 12 to 18 hours, and then do a drying step as more uh to roast it at 170, 150, 170 Celsius, as suggested by the uh uh Art of the Drink blog. Uh do you think this would be enough to make it safe? Will it completely ruin the flavor? Uh do you know how they do it with apricot kernels and amboretto? I read somewhere that alcohol neutralizes the HCN.
+
+[36:05] Is that true? I'll just say that right now. No. I'm just gonna I'm gonna leave that out there right in there. No.
+
+[36:11] No, it does not. Um if that's the case, I might go for some sort of uh liqueurs. I'm planning to make a spice rum liqueur out of Ray and Nephew overproof rum anyway, is 63 AB V enough. All right. First of all, uh like old school, old school, old school traditionally.
+
+[36:27] I think, although I'm not gonna bet your life on it, that if you make it and let it sit for a long time, the stuff that does convert to hydrogen cyanide, you can get to flash off after a while if it's been aged long enough. But I'm not gonna bet my life or yours on that. Uh the soaking it does reduce the content of that stuff because it is water soluble, but yes, it's also gonna soak out all of the flavor, right? All of the water soluble flavor. And also, I don't know how much it's gonna be reduced, right?
+
+[36:57] So a lot of this comes down, and if you read Darcy O'Neill's uh That's the Art of Drink that you reference, part one and part two. First of all, these were written a long time ago. So I would just maybe, maybe we'll have him on. We'll ask him. He's a a chemist and a and a uh what's it called?
+
+[37:12] A um a bar guy. Uh he nowhere says that he feels comfortable having people make uh uh orjah out of this stuff straight. And if you look online, there are published works. Uh the other issue is is that in plums in particular, I've seen data on the cyanogenic, right? So like uh they're all rated based on how what their potential for cyanide production is.
+
+[37:39] And it can be like a factor of 10 difference between different plum varieties. So some plum varieties are so low that I'd be like, yeah, sure, no problem. And some bump plum varieties are as high as bitter almonds or like the worst apricot kernels. So it's kind of hard to say. I would say don't do it.
+
+[37:56] Right? Or just use 10 as a flavoring with a bunch of other things like we do when we use apricot kernels that I go, you know, you go buy apricot kernels in Chinatown, which is the only place I know where to buy them. I guess Calustians also might have them. And, you know, you put a couple of them in as a flavoring with a zillion real regular almonds, and then, you know, because the stuff that they make commercially now, they just remove the stuff that's bad because the the benzaldehyde is what the flavor is, and that doesn't require cyanide. So I don't know.
+
+[38:27] Is this a good answer? Yeah. Good enough? Yeah. Good enough for government work as my dad used to say.
+
+[38:33] All right. Abuido writes in, hey, what's the make of the Belgian waffle iron you purchased that caused the pandemic and the financial ruin of ruins of tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of real individuals with family? Just me, you know, because uh my, you know, I I treated myself too much, therefore I ruined everything for everybody. Uh also, where did you buy it and is it available online? Well, it's available online if you have infinite money.
+
+[38:55] It is the HVD A 57 waffle iron. It is God's waffle iron. It is about a hundred pounds. I would get to 220 if you have 220. And anyone that kind of buys one of these should probably have enough money to get 220 put into their kitchen, right?
+
+[39:13] They're stupidly expensive. Uh I love it, right? And you could buy it online if you have infinite money. I went to a guy named Ray Waffles. And Ray Waffles lived in Staten Island.
+
+[39:29] And I heard that uh he got real sick. He got hospitalized during the pandemic, and I don't know if he made it. But Ray Waffles had some that let's just say fell off the back of a truck. So I paid nowhere near the small fortune incosts. Yeah.
+
+[39:45] I paid nowhere even close to the retail value of an H V D A 57. But now that anybody says they they're like, we make Belgian waffles. I walk in, I look at their iron, and I'm like, No. No, you don't. You know what I mean?
+
+[40:02] Like, I mean, like Crampos makes a an okay iron, uh, and there's another company that makes an okay iron. But like, there's a reason all the real shops in Belgium use the HVD, and PS, it's also expensive over there. It the reason it's expensive is because it's so robo that it like I said, it weighs about a hundred pounds, and it is CNC machined cast iron waffle plates. That's what we're talking about. But get to 220.
+
+[40:28] Just get to 220. Uh yeah. Oh my God, that's so good. The problem is now, like I was thinking of writing a a recipe for waffles, and I and I just I don't know how to make a waffle iron. Let me put it to you this way.
+
+[40:43] It can make a whole like like waffle the size of your head in two minutes flat, crispy. Like two minutes flat. I was at the uh this place in Denmark and they had a quote unquote waffle iron, Mr. Waffle, that makes these little weird like little wafflettes, and it's like it's like like stuff in a squeezy, and you you do it yourself at like hotels. Now it was better than a uh an American hotel do-it-yourself waffle, right?
+
+[41:07] Three minutes. Who takes three minutes to cook a waffle? Unacceptable. Unacceptable. It means they don't have enough juice.
+
+[41:13] No. You know, and it was not a w you know, a weenie waffle iron, the one at the Danish Hotel. Anyway. Uh Danish Hotel had a um a weird cheese cutter. Get this.
+
+[41:25] You know Giro? Like for like Tetem One? Yeah. You know, makes those uh makes those those Tetem One flowers. Delicious P.S.
+
+[41:32] Very good, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And you know wire cutters. Yeah. Right.
+
+[41:35] So I guess th they had this like Danish block cheese, which is like whatever the Danish equivalent of like, you know, block cheese. Yeah. I don't know. And it was a cross between a wire cutter and a G roll where you just put two blocks standing up, two square blocks standing up. You with me?
+
+[41:54] Like like twin towers standing up, right? And then instead of a G roll with a knife, it's a wire that's stretched, and you just you you turn the wire and the wire's on a screw, so it advances exactly one slice per revolution, and so you make two slices per revolution. But where they didn't get it right is that the wire has zero resistance when you're not in cheese. Duh. And then as soon as you go into the cheese, it gets a like a little bit of resistance, and that's right where it also has to ride up on the edge of the thing.
+
+[42:27] So you're not, so you're you're putting up some force there, so that's a point to break a wire. But then also, as it buries in the cheese, as it gets to almost 45 degrees through the block of cheese on the wire, you're at your maximum drag of the wire through the cheese. And so it requires a lot more force, and I think people just push it a little too far at that point and boing. And so, like at breakfast in the morning, if you got there early, you'd have the little weird cheese slicer, which I use despite the fact that the cheese was just meh. I just wanted to use the weird slicer.
+
+[42:56] But if you got there late, late in the day, nothing. Anyway, not a good idea. Interesting. Not a good idea. Um, all right.
+
+[43:08] Should I should I listen? If you really want to see whether Ray Waffles is still alive, send a uh message to Quinn and I'll have him give you uh Ray Waffles telephone number, and you can call him on the DL and see whether Ray Waffles is A still alive. I don't even know his last name. His last name is Waffles. Waffles, Mr.
+
+[43:26] Waffles. And then B, you know, uh it would cost a lot to ship. Right. So I knocked it down because I literally crossed the Verizon and Narrows Bridge, went and got it. So I really knocked it down.
+
+[43:40] But that's what I would do. Uh I get the impression that he used to work for one of the companies here that had a bunch of them, and maybe doesn't anymore, if you get my drift. Anyway. Uh Saison Slayer, very pedantic, but Dave talking about cavitation got me thinking about other technical terms that are often misused. I've uh noticed some folks on the internet using emulsified as a synonym for combined and mixed.
+
+[44:07] That does suck. That does suck. Hey, you know what? I haven't tested yet. Uh people say that it's easier to make emulsions in vacuum blenders.
+
+[44:16] I should test that in the vacuum blender. The reason being that like when you're whipping air in, that's another energy interface that you need to create. And if you don't need to create that like highly energetic interface between air and uh the liquids, then you can use it quicker. Right. But I don't know.
+
+[44:37] I don't know if it's true or not. Gotta run the test. Anyway. But that is I'm actually mean emulsion in that case, not a mixture or a combination. Yeah.
+
+[44:46] Um I've noticed some folks on the internet using emulsified as a synonym for combined, which I don't think is really quite right. Are there any other terms that aren't quite correctly used that come to mind? Well, I mean, you guys know I don't like dry brine. Like what else is there? AKA salting.
+
+[45:05] Reverse sear. Yeah, no reverse sear, yeah. Right. Sear before you sear after. Doesn't matter.
+
+[45:11] You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And by the way, that is the way cooking has been done since time immemorial. Right? You look at recipes from whenever.
+
+[45:24] And they've always say, Turn it up to 400 for the last 15 minutes of cooking. Some people do it at the beginning of the cook, some people do it after. It's only, first of all, uh forward reverse makes make whatever, because it's whatever, before and after, right? So it only makes sense if your only concept of searing is cooking a steak in a restaurant where what you have to do is sear it and then throw it in a finishing oven because that's your only way of cooking, right? But anyone that's done any sort of sous vide stuff knows you sear it at the end, and that the reverse in that case would be to sear it beforehand.
+
+[46:06] The real correct answer is of course sear it both times. You know, having tested hundreds of people on it, it's slightly better to do it both. Slightly, but better. I don't typically do it both anymore because I'm lazy. And the difference is slight.
+
+[46:22] You know what I mean? Uh what else is misuse? What uh what Quinn? I'm sure you uh get get in a in a hot and lathered about this. I feel like sometimes fermented is misused.
+
+[46:33] To mean what? I don't know, just like sit around. Like if you mix something and like let it mingle. I feel like sometimes it's labeled fermented. Mingle.
+
+[46:47] For some reason you got that cranberry song linger in my head. Do you have to let it mingle? Anyway, the um I've got I've got one for you, Dave. What do you got? Molecular.
+
+[47:01] Yeah, it sucks. Except for the only correct usage of that is when you're talking about Jackie molecules. That's right. It's the only correct usage. Yeah, uh I'm going back to Quinn's for a sec.
+
+[47:13] I mean, molecular is no reason to call it. Either it all is or none of it is. Uh and nobody's like, imagine if someone had like a uh like a a scanning tunneling microscope and they were actually placing individual atoms or like nano cooking. God help us. You know, God help us.
+
+[47:28] That's the next step up from individually frying flowers. It's nano by one, yeah, exactly. Nano positioned. Yeah. Uh I'm thinking about what Quinn said, there is one thing that everyone always calls fermented, but it's not.
+
+[47:41] Black garlic? Yeah, black garlic, that's what it is. That's it. That's it. Yeah.
+
+[47:48] That sucks. And by the way, uh sous vide is another one. Uh, when they don't mean vacuum, that's irritating. And the reason that I don't like it is because if you use a term that implies something that's incorrect, then it also distorts your intuition, and so it makes it hard for you to discover new things or think about what's actually going on because you bring with it, you bring with an incorrect term uh all of the baggage uh of the incorrect term. And so it's just uh a bad it's a bad idea.
+
+[48:23] Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah. There are others. What other ones? Uh pH for acidity in terms of f acidity as a flavor, pH as a uh as an actual measure of the number of protons, totally different.
+
+[48:40] Um there's a lot. Yeah. You know what I mean? There's a lot. I can't think of any others right now.
+
+[48:48] Again, I did have a list and then it was printed on my last on my two weeks ago sheet. Uh Kevin McHugh, is there any way or has anyone managed to quantify how much carbon dioxide leaves a drink in the mouth versus in the stomach? Well, I mean, I guess it depends on how much you burp. Am I right? Right?
+
+[49:07] But no, I don't think so. Uh I mean, clearly, when you drink as fast as I do, a bunch of it does get down in there. But once you have taken carbon dioxide in, as opposed to nitrogen, which is interesting, the carbon dioxide will go into your bloodstream because you you actively transport carbon dioxide and oxygen in and out, right? Not actively, but it happens. Whereas uh if you burp in nitrogen, sorry, if you consume a lot of nitrogen, then that ends up coming out your butt as toots.
+
+[49:39] So uh there was a case of a man who had uh larger than normal volume of phlatus as defined by his doctors. Phaletus. And uh it was determined that it was because he swallowed so much dang air. Anyway. Uh but carbon dioxide doesn't do that.
+
+[49:59] But Kev, why are you interested in this? What is it that you wish to know? What do you think he wishes to know? Why is this a question of import to Kev? Maybe trying to poison someone, I don't know.
+
+[50:13] But like you can't poison them with the CO2 and levels. You can't put enough. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Let us know why you want to know.
+
+[50:21] Maybe we could find some more information for you. JPM, can you show ear musk for Stas here? Can you share a bit about the forced carbonation stations from existing conditions? I know it's been talked about on the show, but haven't found any information about what it actually involved. Oh, this was for Garrett, but we did mention this, right, when Garrett was here.
+
+[50:37] Also, uh Garrett uh mentions forced carbonations in the bar, but ops for adding soda water. Didn't we talk about this when Garrett was here? I think briefly, but you said uh keep it in. I did? For more details.
+
+[50:51] That doesn't sound like the way the carbonation system worked at existing conditions was we took a standard coal plate, like you would have like a beverage cold plate, and instead of running beverage through it, we ran chilled glycol through it. We got we bought a big poly science like like uh lab laboratory propylene glycol chiller and ran super cold propylene glycol through the cold plate, and then we had 20 proof we bought the world's cheapest vodka, bellows, bellows vodka. It was like fifteen dollars for a 1.75 liter handle. And we would make a 50-50 mix of bellows and water and stick it into uh an ice bath with the cold plate in the bottom of it, and then we would just run an aquarium circulator pump and just always have that circulating, and we would keep it at about minus seven Celsius, and then all the bottles I I built like a rack so that the bottles would just float to the level of liquid in them. And so you just throw the bottles in, and even if they were empty, they wouldn't flop over because the rack was there, but if they were full, they would sink to their fullness level, and then that's how we would force carbonate and keep everything cold.
+
+[51:59] And at the end of the night, you just cover it up and let them let them go, and then once a week we would drain the alcohol and put new stuff in because it still got kind of gross. Even though it was, you know, nothing would grow in it because it was twenty percent alcohol, it was still get gross. Yeah. So we would, you know, pitch it after a while. That good enough answer?
+
+[52:17] Yeah. And then we know we used carbonator caps and you know. Those rings. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[52:23] Yeah. Which, you know, add infinitum we've discussed. Ian would like to uh hear uh wait, would like to hear my uh my thoughts on soup supression technique as well as freeze switching. So freeze switching is when you you do like an old uh it's you know uh how they used to make uh apple like one of the ways you used to make apple jack or like you know, freeze concentration, like ice wine, you like you freeze a liquid, and then um the first stuff to thaw is is uh is the stuff that's higher in flavor and alcohol and other things, and then you throw away the ice crystals, you know this technique? Not familiar, but okay.
+
+[53:06] Yeah, all right. Well, it's a technique. And you know, that's originally like when people uh how make ice wine, right? So they would freeze, they would, and then like they would take the crystals out of the ice wine, and then every time that it re crystallizes and then remove liquid, it's concentrating the alcohol and the sugar and the acid and all this. Right.
+
+[53:23] So you can do that on purpose. And I used to do it, I did it used to do it back at the FCI, and as a concentration technique. But now what people are doing is they're doing that and then adding back a different base liquid instead of water. Right? I think that's what they're doing.
+
+[53:38] So it's called uh what do they call it? Freeze switching, I think is what they uh it's a good technique. You know, it's a little bit of a pain in the behind. They the guys at Cuisine Solutions uh do a lot of that, and they built a little rig or a machine for it. But I don't know what suppression is.
+
+[53:54] Like sou like sou like under pression. Quinn, look that up there. Suppression. What's that? Look it up.
+
+[54:03] Uh good. All right. Uh and I'll get back to it. From NTFN, I've heard Dave mention on the show that dry ice can be used to keep pictures of carbonated drinks, chilled and carbonated. What's a safe way of doing this?
+
+[54:14] Is it worth the trouble? Did I really say that? Because I don't really like doing that. What do you say? Uh that you use dry ice to keep pictures of carbonated drinks, chilled and carbonated.
+
+[54:24] I don't really like it. I don't like doing that. I think you said that in very, very old episodes. I mean, I've done it, but the problem is that when you throw nuggets of dry ice, they form a pellicle of regular ice around them. And it just kind of it's kind of a nightmare.
+
+[54:41] Nowadays, when I'm keeping things cold, I use just salt and ice. Because I rarely want things colder than salt and ice. So I'll just I'll like I'll make my ice slurry that I'm sticking all my stuff into, and then I'll just put salt. You've got to make sure you wipe down the bottles because um if you don't wipe down the bottles, uh you can pour salt in someone's drink. But it ain't gonna kill them.
+
+[55:03] You know what I mean? It's not gonna be as bad as swallowing a chunk of dry ice. I don't like using dry ice. Dry ice will add some carbonation, but it's not like you can keep a pitcher of stuff carbonated fully just by having dry ice in it because it's just not enough pressure available. Does that make sense?
+
+[55:23] Yeah. Okay. Uh Quinn, tell me when you got that crap. Phaedrus's toe. What's Phaedrus?
+
+[55:29] Is Phaedrus like a some sort of myth that I don't remember? F-A-D-R-E-E. P H P H A E D R U S. Who is Phaedrus? Who's Phaedrus and what happened with their toe?
+
+[55:43] Curious now. I'm trying to refine my fry game. Plato. Oh, that's one of his dialogues. Okay, it just written by Plato's dialogue between Socrates and Phaedrus, an interlocutor in several dialogues.
+
+[55:55] Yeah, but what was the I forget Phaedrus's McGillicuddy. See how bad my Play-Doh is? I just remember in general that I'm interested to hear kind of I don't know, machine learning and Plato informs. Because there's nothing uh well, who is it? Uh was it Diogenes who famously like hated Plato?
+
+[56:13] I think so, yeah. And uh, you know, Plato is talking about his forms, you know, Plato's forms, platonic forms. And uh, you know, a man is a being uh that walks upright on two legs, and Diogenes was like, What about chicken? And goes, without feathers. So he just shows up with a with a like a live plucked chicken, throws it at him and goes, Behold your man, and then walks away.
+
+[56:42] Amazing. It's pretty good. Yeah. I.e. your forms are stupid.
+
+[56:45] Yeah. Anyway. But I'm kind of interested, like, you know, the whole kind of machine learning versus forms kind of a situation. I haven't read anything good on the internet. No one's no, I've not no internet hasn't served me up a uh uh, you know, modern take on platonic forms and how machine learning uh kind of theoretically fits into that.
+
+[57:03] Yeah. You know what I mean? How it decides whether something's a zebra. Have you heard about this uh I forgot the name of it, but there's ways to attack machine learning algorithms so that it still looks like to his uh a zebra to us, but the machine thinks it's uh like uh a bird. Because the machine's not seeing a zebra, it's just running a bunch of algorithms.
+
+[57:25] So if you know what if you know the machine, if you know the the learning set that the machine is looking at, you can just look at all the coefficients that it's crunching to figure out whether something is a bird or a zebra, and you can just change pixels that to our eyes make still looks like a zebra, but you can make it say bird. Yeah. Logically. It's weird. But I forget what it's called, that kind of attack on uh the thing.
+
+[57:51] Anyway, Phaedrus Phaedrus and uh their toe once uh wants to refine their fry game. I've read the cooking issues, uh, two French Fry Supremacy articles, Chef Steps, Thick Cut French fries and Kenji's thin and crispy recipe. Oh, I wanted to find out if Dave had additional suggestions that he had developed after his 2010 era articles. Oh, so many, dude. So many, man.
+
+[58:12] Uh but we'll have to do a whole French fry thing later. I mean, so many. There's no perfect fry. First thing is just go to Belgium. If you really like, if you want to spend any length of time, you should go to Belgium and just see what's possible with the setups that are being used in the best fry shops in the world, and then decide where you want to go from there, right?
+
+[58:38] Like what is important to you in terms of like your workflow? Like my French fry was built around having to finish in a fryer at a certain temperature in a particular place, a particular thickness, but you don't need to do any of the stuff that I was doing if you do it exactly the way the Belgians do it. So there's no one perfect fry or perfect way to the fry. You need to go to Belgium. Uh Alexi, how does donor kebab vertical spit cooking maintain food safety?
+
+[59:05] Wouldn't a kebab cooked uh from raw notionally have the middle uh in the danger zone for a long time to incubate bacteria? This is a good question. I don't know. And get this in Denmark, I saw someone with a uh a freaking donor, like swarma thing that was like three and a half feet across. I walked past them and I made the I made the giant bear hug look and I gave the guy the weird eye, and he was like, he just nodded his head.
+
+[59:29] He's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Big, big, big swarma house. Did you ever figure out what that stuff was, Quinn, before they rip us off the air? Uh yeah. What?
+
+[59:39] It seems like it's just like freezing fruit or other ingredients. Salad in a cocktail as a way to extract. Why is that Sue's pre underpression? What did that understand? Suppression?
+
+[59:53] I don't know. I don't understand. Let me know what it is. Maybe I'll look it up. It doesn't make sense.
+
+[59:58] Beefnog. What? Yeah. I don't have a link in my finger. I think I'll s I'll send it to you later.
+
+[1:00:06] All right. Beefnog wanted is going to uh Copenhagen in early August. And wants suggestions. It's going to Noma. I believe I gave you your suggestions, Beefnog.
+
+[1:00:14] And uh is that a is that a take on uh beeflog from uh Space Ghost the cartoon from Brack? Beeflog. So I knew you were beeflog guy and not a cheese log guy. But I will say this when you go to Noma and you're gonna be solo and you're gonna be at a common table, they have you meet beforehand for a drink, which I thought was nice. What is this?
+
+[1:00:33] Cooking issues, and I'm gonna go to the house.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Marlowe, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, Newsstand Studios in New York City. Joined as usual with John. How are you doing? Doing great.
+
+[0:21] Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Peachy. Loving it.
+
+[0:23] Loving it. Just loving it. Loving life. Just chewing it up and spitting it out. Yeah.
+
+[0:27] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's great. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[0:29] Joe Hazen rocking the panels. How are you doing? I'm doing work, man. Not so sweaty today, huh? Even though it's muggy as heck.
+
+[0:36] Well, uh I'm gonna sprout more. Like I when you bike in, like my body's one of these things where it's like a delayed reaction kind of situation, so I'll probably continue to like spray liquids for the rest of the spray liquids all over the place. Anyway, uh in Switch positions today, we have Mr. Molecules in he's in Stanford now. You haven't switched yet?
+
+[0:59] Oh, you haven't switched in. Oh man. I get all my information wrong all the time. So you're still in LA? Why is it so exciting to you?
+
+[1:10] What, the switch? I don't know. Yeah. I mean, it's something to talk to you guys about. Anastasia, you hate talking to me generally, you know, about food-related issues.
+
+[1:19] You'll talk for days about stuff that we probably shouldn't talk about. But yeah. Anyway. So it's something that it's something at least that you're, you know, talk about. Uh my foods.
+
+[1:30] Yeah. So unfortunately, Quinn will not be able to uh join us uh today. Hopefully, I mean he'll be back next time. Uh but uh I had a question and uh I I got Quinn's okay to talk about this, so I can talk about this. Uh so you guys familiar with Threads?
+
+[1:48] The new fake Twitter that's on Instagram? Yeah. Yeah. I haven't signed up for yet. Oh wow.
+
+[1:54] You've signed up for or you haven't. It's awful. Yeah. Well yeah, I have. It's terrible.
+
+[1:58] All right. Uh I also signed up for that. Oh, hey, my, my uh, my what's it called? My um it's my agent. That's my book agent.
+
+[2:04] Kim Witherspoon. Awesome. Kim Witherspoon, folks. Just fishbowled us. Amazing.
+
+[2:09] Uh anyway. So uh that's so funny. Yeah. Um I'll talk about the book in a minute. So Quinn, Nastasi and I had a ever since Quinn started, we've been pestering him to do what, Stas?
+
+[2:25] Get a cell phone. Get a cell phone. Because he doesn't have a cell didn't have a cell phone because he can't use them, right? So why have one if you can't use it? So he only used social media platforms that had browser uh what's it called?
+
+[2:40] Browser analogs, right? And but when he comes to work for us, we use platforms, things like texting, right? That you can't do from a browser and send images and have group text and stuff like that. So like we were riding them like a trick pony, right, Stas, about getting the you know uh I wouldn't call the text passive aggressive, more aggressive aggressive, right? Just like straight, straight aggro texting to try to like uh so I said this on the air before, he finally gets a phone, Android, of course.
+
+[3:10] No offense, Android people, but but come on. Why are you Android Jack? Yeah, you're Android, aren't you? No, no, no, no, no. All right.
+
+[3:18] Because the thing is is that like I I uh buy whatever phone you want. I'm not gonna yuck your yum. But when I see that green, I'm like, oh you know what I mean? Yep. I'm like, oh my god, it's someone like in another country.
+
+[3:32] Are they are they, you know, are they underwater getting squished like a submarine billionaire? Well, why is it green? Why isn't it blue? Anyway, so he gets an Android, fine, fine. And he sends us the text with a picture of uh, you know, a gif of Pinocchio dancing saying, now I'm a real boy.
+
+[3:46] Exciting, right? Except this. He is accessing the phone via his computer, right? So the phone exists, it's a real phone. And there's some sort of screen sharing thing that he can use with his computer so he can control it.
+
+[4:01] You with me? With you. All right. The problem is is that the people who have designed all of these things, like Instagram stories, like threads, uh, like some of these other applications, um, to make it usable on a phone, because they're all about the phone and their fingers all work, right? Are all about like uh the flick, right?
+
+[4:21] So there's no easy way for him to navigate through a timeline that's eight billion hours long because he can't like there's no mouse equivalent to flicking. So he can't make it flick. So what I said is there's gotta be some sort of human, uh, human, what was it called? H I D, human interface device or something like this. It anyway, it's a thing.
+
+[4:41] There's gotta be someone who has figured this out and has written a little piece of software to go in between the mouse and the fake telephone screen program to make it so that inputs that Quinn can do can make those applications function well in advance of those people understanding that not everyone can use the application the way that they want them to. So I was hoping that someone in Cooking Issues land has some sort of information and can get in touch with us. You know what I mean? Then we can, you know, do more stories and threads and all that stuff that people seem to care about. You know what I you know what I joined up?
+
+[5:15] Blue sky, haven't used it yet. What's that? It's another fake talk. Oh, you got the invite blue sky, huh? No, I'm so fancy.
+
+[5:22] Mm-hmm, fancy. Yeah. I don't really understand it. I never did that Mastodon thing. I don't do extinct animals unless I can eat them.
+
+[5:29] Would you would totally My favorite thing about threads is that like everybody everybody's so up in arms about Elon and these billionaires, and they're like, we need an alternative. And then Threats comes along and they're like, ooh, Zuckerberg, sure. Wow. Yeah. All right.
+
+[5:44] Oh my God. I mean, like, yeah. You know, I the my issue is is that um, and I said this to somebody, I was like, listen, my insights into the conversation are uninteresting. So I am not going to weigh in on a conversation about a conversation because my opinions on that are relatively worthless. You know what I mean?
+
+[6:09] So I prefer to just wait until I can talk about things like cooking or blowing things up. Things where my opinions are worthwhile. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[6:18] Um, dranks, you know, things like that. Uh all right. And you guys have anything uh oh, by the way, uh, should you be listening live? By the way, we're not here live in the studio next week, so I'll be at Tales of the Cocktail. So if you're gonna be in New Orleans, I kind of like this hot, crappy weather we're having here now because I think it's like New Orleans practice.
+
+[6:37] So you know how like when you get off the plane in New Orleans in the middle of the summer, you're like, oh yeah. Right. So uh, yeah, I'm trying to get some practice in. So so here's some things I want to do when I'm in uh New Orleans. Ready?
+
+[6:51] I want to meet with uh Turge, who runs uh specialty Turkish coffee, and have him do some actual Turkish coffee brewing with me so that I can have a world Turkish coffee barista champion next to me making the product while I taste it, which is, by the way, the way to tell whether you're doing a good job is to have the product made by a world expert. That is the gold standard to figure out whether you're doing a good job, is to taste the stuff being made by someone who everyone else thinks is doing a really good job. Don't you agree? Uh yes. Yeah, didn't think of that before, but yeah, that's a good point.
+
+[7:27] So then, so then, right, when I go home, I'm gonna be like, oh my god, I suck. Oh my god, I suck. But I can get better, right? Right? Yeah.
+
+[7:35] Uh so I hope to do that. Uh, and by the way, his his pots, which I can't pronounce the Turkish word for it, it starts with a C. Yeah. Right. Sedge.
+
+[7:43] I can't, I can't, I'm not even gonna try. But what I can say that, right? You know what I mean? His pots are so nuts. This they're like so heavy and nice.
+
+[7:53] You hold it, you're like, oh, I want to make the coffee now. You know, because it's a really ritual-based thing anyway. Really, really, really ritual-based. So I want to do that. Uh on the Monday, if you're in town in New Orleans for Tales of the Cocktail, I'll be doing some sort of thing for Martell's master distiller.
+
+[8:09] I don't know, some sort of something. I think there'll be some sort of artificial intelligence hoo-ha there. I don't know. I don't know. On Tuesday, my seminar about daiquaries.
+
+[8:18] I don't know if there's still spaces left, but it's called Dacquari Deep Dive, wherein we will uh analyze the structure of what is one of the most simple cocktails with a bunch of cool people like Shannon Mustafer, uh Garrett Richard, uh and Julio Cabrera, uh, and so like the four. So we have one, you know, you know, Cuban from Miami who like follows the old Cuban style. We have, you know, Shannon who follows Shannon's style, me and Garrett, and we're all gonna get together and pound our heads together and you know, uh actually taste out samples of daiquiries made different ways and get this. You know, so when you're at a tasting for shaking cocktails, they're always bad. Did I mention this?
+
+[8:58] They're always bad. And the reason is is because you can't shake cocktails for like 80 people and then pour them into tiny cups and then serve them and do comparisons because there's no way that the one that on the left is gonna be poured the same amount of time ago or shaken the same amount of time ago as the one on the right. So we got uh, you know, AK at Bicardi to buy us so some of those little um what do you call them? Like aerator things. So what we're gonna do is is we're gonna give everyone the pre-diluted, not shaken, all poured flat, and then so they can fluff it up and taste it like apples and apples.
+
+[9:39] Apples and apples. Yeah. And then I do a book signing on the Wednesday. Yeah. Yeah, and then I'm back.
+
+[9:44] But maybe we could do a show live if we can wrangle it. Uh I can call in maybe with uh with a bartender of choice from uh New Orleans. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[9:53] Because the week after that, the studio is closed. So we gotta try to do something, right? Yep. Right? Right.
+
+[10:01] Okay. Um on the way in, sorry, not cooking related. Okay, you know how when you're going down the street and you see like a lime green Lincoln stretch limo from the 80s and it's all dented, and you're like, all right. You're like, that's cool. You know what I mean?
+
+[10:20] It's like it's cool. Yeah. You know, a a limo that's 40 years old can be beaten up and it's fine. You know, like it gets cool again. Saw an idiot with a dirty Bentley today, like two blocks from this place.
+
+[10:33] Like two years old, early, you know, 30, 30. Like, no, that's incorrect flossing. If you're going to buy a Bentley, clean that thing. Yeah. Have some freaking self respect.
+
+[10:42] Yeah. If you're buying, how much do those things cost? What are those? Like three, $300,000 or something? Oh, yeah.
+
+[10:46] Ridiculous. Yeah. If you have the money to be able to take care of it, just do it. Yeah, this is like uh, you know, that's why Nastasia was hating on Bjork, her dirty white shoes. Come on.
+
+[10:55] You're Bjork. If you're gonna if you're gonna be Bjork, be Bjork. Don't be, you know, don't be Kareem Rashid. Be be Bjork, who famously dirty white clothes. Uh designer.
+
+[11:04] Catcher. Isn't that Kareem Rashid? Yeah, right? Designer. Uh am I am I inaccurate?
+
+[11:09] So am I inaccurately categorizing your response. No. That's right. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[11:16] Uh all right. So I also have a question. So there's this lady whose name is out of my head. She died, and her son's gonna donate, uh, trying to donate her books to Mofed, right? We already have FCI's library, she donated her books.
+
+[11:29] So in it was a list of her favorite books in her collection. And so just to get a kind of flavor for her taste, I bought a couple of them, right? And one of them I'm like, no, no, thanks. You know what I mean? No, thank you.
+
+[11:40] But then one of them is the Pyromaniacs cookbook, which I can't believe I never owned. It's an amazing book. It's from 1968. And uh it's just like really well, really well written. It's a good, and you know, I haven't come across any horribly sexist or racist things yet, so I'm not saying they're not there.
+
+[11:59] I haven't finished the book. You know what I mean? But I haven't hit them yet. So I haven't had that, other than the the obvious use of he for all the third persons and stuff, which, you know, 68. Anywho.
+
+[12:08] Uh and it was written in New York City in 196. He wrote it in 1967 in New York City, so it's got that New York flair and all about lighting crap on fire. And he basically his premise is you can light anything on fire. But what I didn't know, uh it well, so he publishes what he says is one of the very original early Cocoa van recipes. And in his recipe, it's not the way we make it now.
+
+[12:34] So like the way that I've always made it is you add the wine relatively early in the process. And you know, he first of all, cook, right, is a male, and you don't use chicken for cocoa van, not technically, right? No. And so the original recipe was with not with an old rooster, but with a capin. So castrated young male rooster.
+
+[12:57] Don't we wish they were all young cast? And I've never done side-by-side taste of a chicken versus a castrated rooster. You know, a young castrated rooster, but I would like to do that taste test. I would like to do capon versus chicken. Same variety, same farm, right?
+
+[13:12] So it's not about husbandry. Yeah. It's about you know. How do you cut the balls off of a chicken? I I don't know.
+
+[13:21] I mean, they don't have external junk. How do you can someone look that up while we're doing this? How do you how do you I mean how do you I don't really want to look at the images or videos that might come up with uh you know just get get the Wikipedia? You don't have to get the video. You don't have to get the video of how you how you D D man a chicken.
+
+[13:40] You know what I mean? Rooster. Anyway. So estrogen implants. What was the f well how'd they do it in like 1820?
+
+[13:51] Oh, well, that I don't know. But yeah, surgically or uh probably crudely surgically in 1820. I mean, it just seems like so much easier to do it to like a pig or a or a cow, you know, with the rubber band. Shagoink, you know what I mean? Sh pink, and then, like, you know, that's it.
+
+[14:11] I used to have nightmares. I we used to, Nastasia used to threaten me with pictures of that rubber band gun back when we worked at the FCI. She would just flash a picture of the rubber band gun. I don't know if you remember that stuzz. Um.
+
+[14:23] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, because that's like the worst nightmare. Anyway, uh, so they flambe the cocoa van early and then cook the chicken almost all the way through and add the wine at the end, which seems back asswards to me. Yeah.
+
+[14:36] Have you ever tried it that way or heard of anyone trying that way? You're a mushroom and onions guy, right? Yes. Pearls, right? Yes.
+
+[14:41] Yeah. Yeah. Now, because you're gonna braise it, are you that fool that buys pearl onions that aren't pre-peeled and frozen? Oh no, always. Why wouldn't you do that?
+
+[14:52] Well, the pee peeled and frozen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the way to go. When someone told me, yeah, yeah. Someone once walked up to me and I'm sitting there over the sink, like, oh, you know, my back's hurting.
+
+[15:00] I'm like, you know, all like like piles of crap everywhere, like half an hour later. They let me do the whole thing, right? And then they're like, hey, jerk, you can buy those pee pre-peeled and frozen. I was like, what? What?
+
+[15:17] Yeah. That's like the greatest tiny onion life hack. Really? You know what I mean? And I get it.
+
+[15:24] If you're gonna use it fresh or you were gonna like pickle or something, maybe not, I don't know, because of the free song, which we'll get into later. But I mean, in a braze, yeah. Come on. Totally fine. Yeah.
+
+[15:35] Anyway. Uh all right. So, um I have some updates on the spin's all. You want to hear them? Yeah.
+
+[15:46] All right. So the factory has finally given us some uh ways to tweak the program and the controls. So I've now tested the spinzall at an even higher speed than the one that we spec'd it at before. So now we can officially say that it is 25% more powerful. 25% more powerful.
+
+[16:05] And I'm also going to get them to tweak the program to see whether I can get it to accelerate faster. Because I figure maybe I can shake uh shave 30 seconds off the acceleration and maybe 15 seconds off the deceleration time to just crush the cycle times even lower. And hopefully with the 25%, I can get it the better mode on the continuous. So that's the that's the news. I'll be taking the prototype two tails of the cocktail.
+
+[16:26] So if you find me, I might have it on my back at any given time. Yeah, walking around like a turtle with my house on it on uh on its back. So anyway, that's good, right? Yeah, very good. Yeah.
+
+[16:36] Exciting. Uh all right. Also, updates on uh clarification and ginger. So Quinn's not here, so I can't talk to him about it. But you know, we're working with modernist pantry.
+
+[16:47] I think they have the magnesium carbonate online, which is what we use to clarify ginger juice, right? And things with uh starch. I found out the reason why the ginger, so I was having issues where the ginger juice was amazing, amazing. Uh, you know, I clarified it with with alcohol, right? So I did about a 50-50 mix of ginger and alcohol is what I've been using.
+
+[17:06] And the covings, by the way. Oh my God. Oh my god. This juicer. Okay, when I went when I was on my honeymoon, I went to the uh consortium Tutelo Parmigiano Reggiano, right?
+
+[17:22] And uh, and we missed the bus because there was no internet, so I didn't know when I had to show up. We made it early, like nine. He's like, the bus to the factories to where you could see the production left like half an hour ago. He's like, You there's no more tours. It was our only day in Parma.
+
+[17:37] So we we couldn't go. And I was I was dejected, even though it was, you know, my honeymoon. I was like, you know, almost crying. And so I told the guy, you know, in Italian, I forget I say it because I had my phrase book, you know, and I said, uh, I am in love with Parmigiano. And he goes, No, you love Parmigiano, you're in love with your wife.
+
+[17:58] And I said, No. I'm in love with Parmigiano and my wife. I have two mistresses. Anyway, so he gave us a whole, a whole just a whole bunch of uh of swag. I don't even know how I got on that.
+
+[18:15] What was I even talking about? I was talking about magnesium carbonate. Yep. Ginger. Anyway.
+
+[18:21] So uh I don't even know how I got onto that. Twin Tuesday, yeah. Oh, geez, Louise. And I don't even have Quinn to smack me back. I don't even remember what I was talking about, except for I was talking about ginger.
+
+[18:30] It was something about me. I can't allow that. Exactly. I'm gonna get sprayed out and like turned into a baby again. And 2001.
+
+[18:38] By the way, do you know that like kids these days don't watch any of the stuff we watched when I was? I was like, I I went to my kid and his friend, it was one of his best friends who wants to be a film major, right? Oh filmmaker, film major. Uh, but he wouldn't tell his old teachers because he was sick of them saying, You're never gonna get a job because it's Manhattan, whatever. Anyway, so I'm like, so you've seen the Brady Bunch?
+
+[19:00] No. So you've seen Gilligan's Island? No. So you've seen, and it's just any show, you name it, they haven't seen it. You know?
+
+[19:09] I was like, Night rider. He's like, No, but my uncle worked on Knight Rider. I'm like, and you still haven't seen it. I was like, sick, right? Worked on Night Rider.
+
+[19:16] None of these. Hasn't seen any of these things. Pathetic. And they were like, Well, I was like, Well, I saw shows that were not from my generation. Like, we all watched, you know, Honeymooners and I Love Lucy.
+
+[19:26] Anyway. Yeah. But what? Not that that's uh, oh yeah, bewitched, oh my god. Twinkle, twinkle, twinkle.
+
+[19:30] Yeah, but that's because they were like, that's because there were like 10 shows ever back then. Like and I love Jack. I'm with you, except for Dax and his crew watch almost exclusively Dross. What's what's that? Bull crap.
+
+[19:47] They just watch people like on a skateboard hitting their head against the wall, going, like that's what they're watching. So it's not like you know anyway. Yeah, yeah. Oh, three stooges. I heard like I heard Bill Hader and Conan O'Brien make their kids watch like old stuff.
+
+[20:11] Like um, what's his name? Hitchcock and that. That they understand. Well, uh, yeah. So I asked the I asked Nico, which is his dirtbag buddy.
+
+[20:19] I was like, are you at least watching the old films? And he's like, he's like, yeah. And he like, and instantly Dax was like Hitchcock. I'm like, Hitchcock is relatively late in the history of films, my man. You know what I mean?
+
+[20:30] But I was like, Yeah, but so they are watching stuff like that. So that's good. I mean, Bill Hader's cool. I mean, I don't know him personally, but I would guess he's cool. Hey, are we allowed to talk about the secrets about the band at Conan O'Brien that uh Amber Mattock told us?
+
+[20:50] No, why the Okay? Why would we do that? No. Okay, I won't. All right.
+
+[20:54] Anyway, uh good stuff. I wish I wish we were still in touch with Amber Maddic. Amber Maddock was the maybe still is, I don't know, the safety expert for NBC studios here in this building. And uh, or one of these buildings, I don't know, they're all the same to me. And uh he was one of the coolest folks.
+
+[21:15] Like, he was so cool. Remember? Oh my god. Ambromatic. What was his actual name?
+
+[21:20] You remember? I don't know. I don't know. Anyway, back to the ginger. So uh oh, the Kovings.
+
+[21:27] I love the Coovings. I'm in love with my Kovings juicer. Ah found it. Oh, found it, people. This juicer, so like in the first edition of the book, I wrote about the champion juicer and how much I love it.
+
+[21:38] And Stas, you know, we remember I wrote about it. You remember that time that we juiced so many apples that the champion melted, and like we were sticking wet towels over the champion and they were steaming. And then and the magnet went bad, so then it didn't have a safety anymore. You remember that? To me, that is the sign of an amazing product, right?
+
+[21:59] And so, like, you know, that's basically the only juicer I recommended because uh I don't really like centrifugal juicers, even though that's what uh the factory in China keeps calling the spinz all a centrifugal juicer, which it irritates me no end. But you know, I ran some tests with like the Breville juice fountain. Breville, good company, but the juice fountain throws a lot of pulp into the juice. So I'm assuming that most centrifugal juicers throw a lot of pulp into the juice. And since I spend most of my time trying to get the pulp out of juice, I'm like, no, thank you.
+
+[22:23] You know what I mean? No, thanks. Um but so I did not have too high expectations for this vertical auger juicer that Covings uh, you know, made. But I was just so quiet and don't have to do anything, you don't have to force. I mean, maybe as I'm getting older, I don't need to be as aggressive with my juicers.
+
+[22:41] You know what I mean? Like, uh, I feel like, you know, uh, you know, when I was in my 30s and you know, even 40s, it's like I needed to like I needed to smash some apples into a champion to make to to kind of get rid of some steam, right, Stas? Yeah, yeah. Yep. Remember at Booker and Dax when uh they weren't juicing the stuff as fast as I wanted, and we ran in there and I just obliterated all those apples in the champion.
+
+[23:08] Wait, do you have the whole juicer model? I I have the Revo 830. The the Cadillac of them, the Bentley. There I am. Is it no, no?
+
+[23:17] Well, okay, so uh yeah. So that I heard that the Bentley was that basically the reason for Bentley as opposed to Rolls-Royce was that if it was too gauche to have a fancier car than your boss, you bought a Bentley. So your boss has a rolls and it's gauche for you to buy a rule, so you buy a car of equal quality, but it's got the Bentley marquee on it. How douchey is that? So douchey.
+
+[23:39] So douchey. Uh so anyways, this juicer, oh my God, it just eats ginger and spits out juice. Like cold, no, no nothing, no foam. Oh my God. Every once in a while, I don't cut the ginger, I just break off big pieces and throw it in.
+
+[23:56] Every once in a while it goes, oh, but you just hit the reverse button and it goes and keeps going. So far, I've only done like a kilo and a half at one crack without without, you know, I'm gonna do more. I'm gonna do more, I'm gonna do more because I'm doing ginger uh at tails of the cocktail. I'm gonna make it here, and that's a segue into this. I uh so magnesium carbonate is what we use to clarify uh these things with starch.
+
+[24:20] Now you can clarify starch by cooking it, thereby breaking the starch granules, then hitting it with an amylase, which will turn it to sugar, but then you've cooked it, right? So that's not cool for what I like to do. Uh now, I was having this issue where I clarify with magnesium carbonate. The ginger was amazing, fantastic. And then in a day it would be dead.
+
+[24:41] In a day, dead. And so then when I was running all these tests, I was pressure cooking it. I was doing it with acids. I was bop ba poop ba beep ba-bop. So in my one of my recent tests, I realized, oh, oh, magnesium carbonate is highly basic.
+
+[24:57] It it is alkaline, right? And I noticed this because I pre-acidified the juice. Because one of the things is that you straight ginger juice is hard to clarify because it is um it's not acidic. And uh Pectinx X uh ultra SPL doesn't like to break down things unless there's some acid. That's why carrot juice is hard to clarify without apple juice in it.
+
+[25:17] Yeah, unless or you dope it with acid, and that's fine. So I added about a percent of acid to the uh ginger juice and some of the alcohol to like lighten it up a little bit. And I spun it, I'm sorry, I let it sit for 10 minutes or so, then I added the mag carb instead of adding it all at once, and it foamed like a bastard. And I realized, oh, carbon dioxide's coming off. Magnesium carbonate is a base, and it's making the entire solution basic.
+
+[25:44] And so you're adding a bunch of magnesium carbonate to it because you're actually not using a chem, well, it's not totally chemical reaction, it's settling out, taking the stuff with it. So the reason that everything was going bad was that it was coming out of the of the clarification process at a pH of about eight, right? High, eight, nine, you know, somewhere between eight and nine. I measured it. And so then you have to then add a little bit of acid to neutralize the mag carb after you clarify it, and then you add acid for ginger stability because ginger is very the flavors of ginger are very unstable in neutral and basic environments.
+
+[26:19] You wanna you want to have it uh a little bit acidic. So I'm gonna get you some numbers, I'm gonna do some titration um before we have our next show, and I'll let you know exactly how much uh of like citric acid I'll either choose citric or malic how much citric or malic acid it takes to balance out uh spun mag carb stuff so that the ginger is stable. Yeah yeah yeah and now my stuff's stable and my ginger is loving it which means I don't have to make the ginger in in New Orleans I can make the ginger in the comfort of my own house with the comfort of my own Bentley of juicers. So if I have the Bentley like what is my what does my boss have? Might even be the Rolls Royce rolls.
+
+[26:59] Yeah yeah when you think of Worlds Royce now you still think of cars or you think of jet engines cars yeah I've always thought of I mean I know they do engines too but yeah cars not just engines jet engines yes yes yeah no cars ours yeah well we have a collar sweet caller you're on the air is this a jet engine question or a food or beverage question hey we have a collar quicker how uh uh are are you feeling okay how you feeling yeah I'm feeling a little better you know two doses of antibiotics and I'm full of piss and vinegar no nice a little extra hopefully more vinegar hopefully more vinegar and less pits I have to save the show because you haven't even mentioned where you are using the ginger which is a second event on Tuesday. At the Campari event. Yeah I mean about I probably danced around it. I danced around it. No you said seminar Tuesday books and Wednesday.
+
+[27:58] No mention. True, true. So we're doing something related to messing with your senses, like uh loosely synesthesia adjacent uh thing with comparian. Don Lee will be there, uh I will be there, Monica Berg will be there, uh, and uh you know, the Kampari team will be there, and I'll be slinging uh Sky Mules uh until I can't be slinging them no more. So should be fun.
+
+[28:24] Although it's gonna be a nightmare of a day because I have to prep for both the seminar and for uh the thing. Do the seminar, and I have what is it, Quinn? Like 10 minutes to get from one event to the next. Something stupid. Yeah.
+
+[28:38] Something like that. Give him five minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Awesome. Sweet.
+
+[28:44] Uh all right. So uh, oh, by the way, I looked up for uh Alexander some of the papers uh on amygdalene, and because what happened, remember I told you last week? Uh so look for amygdalin uh toxicity anti-cancer activity analytical procedures for its determination in plant seeds and uh the amygdalain content of seeds, kernels, and food products commercially available in the UK by uh Bularinwa. And uh that should be good. I mean, if you want, you can also look up analyzing the effects of hydrothermal treatment on the anti-nutritional factor content of plum kernel grits by using response surface methodology if you really want to, but I don't think it's necessary.
+
+[29:18] It wasn't a very good paper. Uh I mean it wasn't interesting to me. You know what I mean? The title like that, that's shocking to hear. Can you imagine how fast I said it?
+
+[29:26] Oh, and I spoke to my editor, not my agent who just fish build us, but my editor. And she says, I can tell people that I may or may not be working on a 10th anniversary of liquid intelligence, but you should still just buy the book now because it's gonna be like a long time. Still buy the book. Don't bankrupt me, people buy the book now. Seriously.
+
+[29:43] It's gonna be different. I'm taking stuff out, maybe. Anyway, uh, I'm supposed to be asking, so like it's kind of like you know, what on food and cooking, right? Where like, you know, you gotta get the old one and you gotta get the new one. You know, you know what I mean?
+
+[29:54] Although, wow, 10 years, like pictures before and pictures after. Holy, it's been a rough 10 years on me, my friends. Anyway, uh, I'm supposed to ask if there's anything you think uh I should add that wasn't in the uh original anyway, there's that. Um I mean, I've been working on so much stuff. So, for instance, um remember that remember that Pepsi thing we did, Stas?
+
+[30:21] Yeah, yeah. Uh do you drink soda? Yeah. Are you a Coke or a Pepsi? Pepsi.
+
+[30:32] Really? Are you just saying that? Or really? See, I'm really I'm a diet soda drinker, and all diet soda drinkers are Diet Coke people. Yeah.
+
+[30:43] Why are you a diet soda drinker? Do you uh is it uh is it for the health reasons, or do you some people like that taste? I grew up drinking it. I don't drink diet soda anymore. I drink seltzer only, right?
+
+[30:55] Uh so I weaned myself off of diet soda, like uh, you know, in college and grad school and moved exclusively to seltzer, right? Um, but it's just because, and I think this is the case of with most diet soda drinkers, it's not a treat. It is my only form of hydration, you know? So I didn't used to drink coffee, but the only liquid that would enter my body was either uh wine or diet coke. Those were the two things I drank, you know what I mean?
+
+[31:26] And then whiskey, you know what I mean? Uh then gin. You know what I'm saying? But in other words, like non-alcoholic beverages, it was diet coke or bust. That's not true.
+
+[31:34] Sometimes diet seven up or diet sprite. Uh, but yeah, and so like diet soda drinkers, if you were to drink as much soda as I drank, it's just an unconscionable amount of sugar. You can't do it. You know what I mean? So I think that's most diet soda drinkers, which is why I think that people have the whole idea of I think people m who don't drink diet soda completely mischaracterize how diet soda drink drinkers drink, right?
+
+[32:02] You know what I'm saying? It's not like a diet soda drinker would drink that equivalent amount in regular soda. Anyway, my uh my 35 cents. Um sorry, Dave. I can't allow that.
+
+[32:14] Are you not a diet soda drinker, my man? No. No, sir. Do you know there's a new study I haven't read it yet? Uh I don't know whether I believe it's crud or a good study on uh on uh new uh Nutri-Sweet aspartame.
+
+[32:25] I haven't read it yet. So I have nothing to say about it one way or to other. But people do are people even using aspartame anymore? Isn't everyone on the splendid train? Everyone's riding that splendid train.
+
+[32:37] Remember the Quad City DJs? Come on ride the train and ride it. Great lyrics. Anyway. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[32:45] Uh all right, so I'm working on syrups that were based on that Pepsi uh thing that we did. Remember that caramel syrup, how good that was? Yeah. Yeah. So I'll give I'll give you guys some uh some syrups that I'm working on because why not?
+
+[32:59] Why not give you people some syrups that I've been working on? So uh the problem with making a caramel syrup is that uh it's very if you're gonna make caramel syrup the old-fashioned way by cooking sugar until it's brown and then praying you can catch it at the right moment before it burns, and then trying to figure out how to dilute it back after all the stuff you went, i this way is painful. This way is not gonna make a consistent caramel product from day to day. Would you agree with that, John? Yeah.
+
+[33:26] Yeah. So what I used to do was uh I'd use the pressure cleaner to make it. So what you do is is you I would do a two to one syrup and I would add base to it. And when you add base, getting ready to roll base, then you would uh it would brown at a much lower temperature. So you seal the, you make a syrup, like a two-to-one syrup, and I was using uh I did like let's just say as a batch recipe, 150 of uh sugar and 75 of water.
+
+[33:53] I added two and a half grams of sodium carbonate. So sodium carbonate is the more basic version of baking soda. So you bake baking soda at 300 Fahrenheit for like an hour or two, it should lose about a third of its weight, and now it's sodium carbonate, washing soda. So it's less basic than lye, but more basic than um more basic than baking soda by a lot. So two and a half uh uh grams of that, cooked it 75 minutes at 15 psi, you get this gorgeous, gorgeous dark brown caramel syrup out.
+
+[34:22] I'm gonna test it with one-to-one to see if I can get it as dark with one to one, because then I could use more of it, right? Yeah, so that I'm gonna test on that. But then here's the secret, right? You wanna wanna add malic acid. I chose malloc acid because uh I felt like it.
+
+[34:37] Uh 1.58 grams. You get that? 1.58 grams should neutralize that amount of cal of uh of uh sodium carbonate, and then you have a neutral syrup that doesn't taste really salty from the acid-base reaction, like sometimes you can get with baking soda when you neutralize it, and is not basic anymore and is stable. It'll lighten up a bit when you add the acid to it. Strangely, it's weird, right?
+
+[35:01] It goes gets lighter. Can I tell you a story when I was trying to develop it? I was trying to develop it, right? This recipe, trying to make it like, you know, trying to dial it in. And I'm still dialing it because I told you I'm gonna do one-to-one.
+
+[35:11] So I'm like, hey, if I get hydrochloric acid, right, which is HCL, and I and and I get uh uh sodium hydroxide, which is lye, right? Those add to table salt, right? And I only have to use a tiny amount of it because uh it's so you know, it's so strong. So I was like, okay. So I was doing I was doing four syrups.
+
+[35:35] One that you put acid in to invert it and caramelize it, one you put base into to caramelize it, and uh one that you add protein to to do an actual myard reaction, right? So I'll talk about this in a second. So anyway, so first of all, the lie that I had was like two years old, and lie is so hydroscopic, hygroscopic that it just sucks water out of the air. And my lie numbers were totally inaccurate. I know this because when I tried to neutralize it with the hydrochloric acid, it went way acidic on me.
+
+[36:07] So I threw it out. So now if you buy lie, pro tip, if you buy lie, make solution with it's okay for pretzels, but if you need the concentration to be relatively stable, and don't put a desiccant packet in your lie because the lie is actually more of a desiccant than the desiccant is, and it will suck the moisture out of your desiccant and ruin the lie. So uh make a solution with the lie right away, but wear gloves and all this. So anyway, I buy hydrochloric acid. I'm like, how bad can concentrated hydrochloric acid be?
+
+[36:34] You know what the answer to that is? Really bad. Really, really, really bad. Don't buy it, don't have it in your house. I I bought this like high grade stuff, and you know, I'm in the kitchen like an idiot, and I haven't used high proof, you know, whatever you call it, like you know, very concentrated hydrochloric acid since I was a high schooler, right?
+
+[36:56] And back then we were in a science room, right? So I get my gloves on, I have my face, you know, I have my glasses, my safety glasses, and it, and as soon as I open it up, I'm like, oh, this shit needs to be on stuff. Sorry. This stuff needs to be under a hood. Instantly I'm like, oh from the fumes, it starts melting.
+
+[37:12] So like once you open the foil, it got to the top of the foil and melted the foil into the into the acid. So I was like, I can't have this in the house. So then I ran outside, because you know, I can't have it in the house. So I run outside, and this is where I found out that my lie was clumping too, because I'm like, well, I'm just gonna neutralize this with lye. So I like, you know, I'm trying to make a uh uh uh uh um a what's it called uh uh a dilute enough acid solution in my bathtub in a lexan, right?
+
+[37:42] So that I can then neutralize it and pour it down the drain without destroying my drains, right? So or or etching the tub, right? Because it also like muriatic acid is an etchant, right? So like if it touches the concrete, I'm hosed. If it touches me, I'm hosed.
+
+[37:56] If it splashes on me, I'm any way you slice it, I'm hosed. And if Jen comes home before I get this stuff down the drain, or you know, God forbid Booker comes in and is like, why can't I touch, or whatever? You know, I mean it's not that nightmare, bad news. So I throw all my lye into it. It's getting hot as hell.
+
+[38:11] I'm like trying to get it down the drain, and like anytime there's a splash on me, don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. It turns out that sodium carbonate and malic acid or citric acid as your acid-based thing is just fine. It's just fine.
+
+[38:27] Just don't play with the hydrochloric. The other thing that's effed up is that with the hydrochloric acid, and then I found this out later because I have a pH meter, uh minute incorrect uh amounts that you add, right? So, like I told you, my lye was had a little too much water in it. So, you know, and we're talking like half a gram total, less, you know what I mean? And uh all of a sudden it goes and goes like super acidic, like super acidic, super low pH.
+
+[39:01] And I think I just must also done my calculations wrong by like a factor of two or something like this, because the the hydrochloric acid syrup that I made to try to do inversion, then I was gonna add my base to it and have it just be like, you know, fully inverted syrup. The acid was so strong that it ripped apart the sugar molecules in the uh in the solution and turned them to carbon. I had a big chunk of carbon floating in the middle of my mason jars. Oh, another thing I did, I don't know if I mentioned this. You know how they tell you to put your uh mason jars, especially if they're not fully full, put your mason jars into cold water and then turn the temperature up.
+
+[39:43] You know, this like when you're canning something. So I'm like, well, this is a ginger test actually, not a seri test. So I'm like, well, I want the ginger to be hot right away. I don't want it to go through that weird zone because I want to know what the heat is doing, not what like a ramping heat is doing. So I boil the water, I stick all my mason jars in and boom bottom blue right off of them.
+
+[40:02] I was like, I'm a jerk. So if any of you can remember that and not have that happen to you, God bless. Uh so anyway, so the caramel syrup is good. I also did a yeast, uh, you know, uh what's it, diamonium phosphate, which is a protein, so you actually make a mired reaction in the syrup. And for that, I used I had the yeast nutrient, which also has uh food grade urea in it.
+
+[40:25] Uh, but I used uh a lot. No, eight, not 86, has to be eight point. Oh, yeah, 2.5. I added 2.5 um grams of yeast nutrient to the same uh base, did the same 77 minutes at 15 PSI, and you get a dark brown syrup and it's bready, tastes like cooked bread. But the problem is is that it gets lost in old fashioned.
+
+[40:49] So I'm trying to figure out a way to amp the breadiness or get this. I want to maybe make a like uh like a wheat or a barley syrup and then add the uh the uh the yeast nutrient to it to make that kind of cooked myart to make like a toasted bread syrup that doesn't involve toasted bread. So that's what I'm working on, syrup wise. Yeah? Yeah?
+
+[41:08] Yeah? All right. Hey John, why don't you promote the Patreon membership? Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Uh lots of great reasons to join, as we always mention.
+
+[41:18] Uh, you know, mainly the the Discord that we've got going on, a lot of great access to other listeners, recipes, troubleshooting, dish ideas, all sorts of great things, book recommendations. You also get uh discounts at Kitchen Arts and Letters when we have uh certain authors come on, discounts at uh with partners like Ed's Edwards Aged Meats and really just a great bunch of other people. So yeah, uh join cooking or patreon.com slash cooking issues. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[41:45] Yeah. Uh oh. Hey, do you have the the Dolby one? We literally know what I'm talking about? Yes.
+
+[41:57] Yeah, yeah. I love that one. You mean THX? Is that S T H X? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[42:01] Yeah. It's sweet though, right? When you're in the theater and you're like your chest is going. To me, I know that uh I'm uh what's it called? A uh uh a brute, but like if I'm gonna spend a billion dollars to see a movie, I want to hear some rumbling.
+
+[42:15] I want to see some, I want to see some crap blowing up on that screen. Even if it's like a tear jerker, can they just have some sort of major explosion and loud thing so that's something I can't experience at home? You know anyway. I guess that's what the previews are for. Uh although they don't play the previews as loud as they pre play real movies, do they?
+
+[42:36] No. Oh wait. I don't think so. So that sounds like uh remember V'Ger? Of course you do.
+
+[42:45] Um so are you guys Oh Star Trek? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The original Star Trek. The the thunder drums. Yeah.
+
+[42:51] You can make those at home. They're pretty fun. Really? Uh are you guys pro preview or anti-preview? Are you the people who are sick of previews?
+
+[42:58] I like previews. You like previews? Yeah. What about what about you? What about you guys uh out there on the coastal areas?
+
+[43:04] Previews, yes, or previews no. Yeah, I do. Yeah. If you're paying for the movie, I want to see the previews. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[43:12] Anyway. Uh if you're gonna go really early to an Alamo Draft House movie, they have awesome like uh old movie clips from the 60s and stuff. I like going early. What movie? Movie theater, Alamo Draft House.
+
+[43:28] Like in Alamo Draft House. It's usually themed and it's it's good. I don't know if it's still there, but it was there like eight years ago in Well Fleet. There's still a drive-in that you can go to, and they still play the intermission crap from the 60s. Yeah, yeah, with like the oil slides and uh yeah, it's pretty sweet.
+
+[43:46] It's pretty sweet. Uh and they they've updated. When I was a kid, that place used to have the the little the weird things that look like giant CB radio microphones. You know what I'm talking about? That would hang on your mirror, but now you just, you know, turn on.
+
+[43:59] Well, I'm sure now it's not your car radio anymore. It's probably streaming on your iPhone or some garbage. I don't know. But uh yeah, I like a drive-in. Although the second movie always sucked.
+
+[44:09] The first movie was the good movie, and the second movie was just something that they had for free that they could throw in. Like not Parasite. Uh, what's that one? There was one called Parasite from like the 80s that was like a schlock B horror film that's not the Parasite that's great movie. Tremors?
+
+[44:24] Maybe. It's been a long time since I've been to a drive-in. Um, all right. Uh Lord Nabu writes in, uh, what schnapps did Dave drink at uh Tolok Schnapps? Did he stick with Linny or did he go for something Danish?
+
+[44:37] So uh I went there the day after I was at Noma, and uh if I was gonna tell you that I wasn't feeling the amount of alcohol I had had at NOMA the next day, I'd be lying. You know what I mean? So I said to the uh the waiter, I said, uh, if I could have only one schnapps, what should I have? And he goes, have our house schnapps. So I had whatever their house schnaps was.
+
+[45:03] So it wasn't Linny. Although, you know what? I didn't buy because I uh my hands were full. There's all these like uh other linnies uh in I should have I should have stocked up when I was in the uh in Copenhagen's airport on all the other like linnies and stuff, but I didn't because as we all know, stupid. Stupid stupid.
+
+[45:22] Uh all right. Uh Ian uh writes in uh uh but spelled differently, so it's a different Ian. Uh I'd love to hear Dave's thoughts on Ian McPherson's suppression technique as well as free switching. So I did more uh whatever research uh into this uh kind of at Quinn's behest. You still you still with us, Quinn?
+
+[45:43] Yeah, I'm and uh so here's the deal. So first of all, on uh on free switching. Now, as far as I can tell, this is just freeze concentration, where you then put a different liquid in other words, where you you take it back to proof or whatever with a liquid that isn't the water that you froze out. Am I inaccurate about that? That's basically what that is, right?
+
+[46:13] Yeah. So, you know, uh, and you know, I yeah, I think it's pretty much true that a lot of bartenders are doing it because you know, because Ian came up with this term and this takes some that's true. However, the people at cuisine solutions have been selling equipment to do it for a number of years, you know what I mean. I don't I don't know what first year he started doing it or calling that stuff was, but and you know, it is a known technique and it works. You know, I don't know much more I can say about that.
+
+[46:40] Like that's the way, you know, people you freeze concentration is like old farmers' way of of of increasing alcohol content, and then you can do with it what you want. So I guess the the difference is the I the conceptual idea is to do it on purpose with the uh purpose of making a liquid back with different flavors, composing a liquor, right, which you then use in cocktail. So that's different, right? That's interesting. Uh I used to use it more for freeze concentration, more for doing low temperature, zero zero uh heat reductions, right?
+
+[47:14] So like we would make like uh grape juice concentrate or you know, or alcohol uh concentrates like that that way. Um so you know, I think if it works for you, fan tiddly dastic, right? No? Is that a okay now? So supression now, on the other hand, I need to.
+
+[47:31] So I saw Kevin Coss's uh uh what's it called? U YouTube on that, uh, where he you know interviews or or or quotes, you know, Ian has pick you know videos of Ian talking about it. So this is an I think an unfortunate term. And uh I I'm you know not one to throw a stone since I live in a glass house. I've come up with so many unfortunate terms.
+
+[47:52] I think milkwashing is an unfortunate term, Houstino is an unfortunate term. Uh I think even acid and bricks adjusting is a kind of an unfortunate term. I think uh, you know, basically any term I've ever come up with, I think is unfortunate. But you know, I think the I think it suppression, what they're doing is freezing. What you're doing is freezing something, and the theory is is that as you freeze it, the pressure builds up and infuses product uh infuses the liquid into things like fruit, and then you thaw it and the stuff comes out, right?
+
+[48:23] So it's supposed to be a flip on sous vide, because sous vide's under vacuum. So it's that however the couple issues with that. One, it doesn't make sense to me, and two, um you're conflating, and in fact, in the recipes, they're conflating the idea of sous vide where you put something in a vacuum bag and heat it, right? So sous vide has a heating or cooking process, right, which I've always hated. I've always hated that.
+
+[48:51] I lost, I lost that battle. I've lost. You did, yeah. Lost. I'm a loser, right?
+
+[48:55] But uh right, so it's conflating those ideas of cooking and just the effect of manipulating the pressure, which I think is awful, right? So, okay, so fine. So then the core of the idea is that you take something like a fruit, let's just say a strawberry, because it's got a lot of air in it, right? You throw it into a full container. So it's all the way full.
+
+[49:17] Am I my portraying this accurately, Quinn? Yeah. So let's just say a keg or or an ISI whipper, right? Or EC whipper, right? Okay.
+
+[49:28] So it's all the way full. And the theory is, right, that as this stuff freezes, you all know that uh when water freezes, it expands. One of the very few things on Earth that as it freezes, it expands. There are a couple metal alloys that do that actually, and they're used for casting. Look up sero bismuth.
+
+[49:47] Cerro bismuth alloys. Aside from the fact that most of them are highly toxic, they're interesting in that they melt close to body temperature. So medical people used to use them for custom uh anti-radiation weights, and they would like mold these serobismuth alloys like around, they're also expensive. I was gonna do an art project with them. You want to hear what the art project was?
+
+[50:09] Yeah. So I was gonna make a figurine. So have you ever seen my video of the elves jumping into a wood chipper? Yep. Yeah.
+
+[50:14] So I was gonna do uh something that molded things out of sero bismuth, and then almost like a chocolate mold of that, and then just dumped it into a metal pile and had it just keep recycling, melting these uh things. So the other interesting property about serabismuth alloys, and they're used for um very high detail uh uh castings that don't require any sort of temperature stuff, is they expand. So you get extremely high accuracy details out of these metal casts. Anyway, I I digress again. Uh but I do love a serabism alloy.
+
+[50:45] I even bought a chunk of it that's so expensive, but it's got all sorts of nasty heavy metals in it. You don't want to like a lot of stuff. You don't want that stuff. No. Uh anyway, so the idea here is that the water that's in your cocktail plus fruit is going to expand.
+
+[50:59] And the idea is that because the container is full, it has no place to go. And then the theory goes that uh the liquid that is left over will get forced into the fruit as it's freezing because of the tremendous pressure. I don't know whether I believe that that's the case. I would have to do a side by side uh test because here's the truth. If you actually filled up the thing, and if there was actually nowhere to go, uh you'd be looking at pressures on the order of 30 to 100,000 PSI.
+
+[51:32] So you would just shatter it. I don't care. Kegs are only designed to do like a hundred PSI, like maybe burst at like 180 PSI. You know what I mean? Working pressure like 100.
+
+[51:43] Uh an ISI not designed to hold tens of thousands of psi, right? Now, not dangerous because there's no uh gas in there. So, you know, when it ruptures, it's just gonna go pump, and that's why water pipes burst. That's why, you know, my crazy now dead racist grandpa, he used to be able to just, you know, drill, he would take a hand star drill and a hammer and drill holes into rocks in upstate New York in the in the 40s, 30s and 40s, and then fill them with water in the winter, and then that would freeze, and the pressure of that freeze is so high that it would just cleave off huge pieces of rock, right? Well known, you know, tech you know, old time, oldie timey rock breaking technique.
+
+[52:30] And uh, and then he used to tell me that all the time because his main point was I was lazy. Yeah, yeah. Yep. Yeah, that was his main point in anything. Grandpa's main point in anything was that I was either lazy or stupid.
+
+[52:42] Yeah, or too liberal. Those are the three things that he would always uh had against me. Uh that and and that I was a uh uh a guy and he didn't really like guys. Anyway, um I digress again. So the pressure, if you were actually gonna have it be so full that that was gonna be an issue, you would also invariably shatter the thing.
+
+[53:02] So there's gotta be space left. There's just gots to be, right? Because there's no way that you could actually keep it in there under that pressure of freezing. It's just there's nothing made that would do that. So I don't know.
+
+[53:15] What I think is happening is that if that when you're freezing something, especially if you're freezing it in a large volume, you're gonna freeze it relatively slowly. You with me? This is what I think is actually happening. Uh so I think the effect might be real. So when you're freezing something large, it's gonna freeze slowly.
+
+[53:31] And the slower something freezes, what? Anyone? Larger the ice crystals. The larger the ice cream ice crystals bing ding ding. So a larger ice crystal that grows, right, uh is gonna cause more damage to the uh product than uh a fast freeze.
+
+[53:49] And so I think that this very slow freezing that you're getting inside of this uh, and also probably only partial freezing because there's alcohol involved. I think that is what the main thing is. Because we've all got a bag of fruit, especially if you pre slice it, right? Don't keep the fruit whole, right? You pre slice it, you throw it in, strawberries again.
+
+[54:09] Take strawberries, take frozen strawberries, full blueberries, even worse. You let them thaw, what do you have? You have a pile of juice. You have a pile of juice and a bunch of bags of uh of like like right? Yeah.
+
+[54:20] So I think that's the main effect. I think it's mainly a freeze-thaw effect and not so much about the pressure. That's what I think. Uh I mean, have I run the test on having it be fully full versus partially full? I have not.
+
+[54:29] One thing about it being fully full is it'll take longer to freeze. Another thing about it being fully full is that you're guaranteed that everything is submerged, right? And so there could be some effect of the freezing being submerged versus not. I don't know, but I haven't run the test. Um there's a theory that just freezing cocktails can also uh change them, like once they're diluted.
+
+[54:54] Um again, uh, you know, uh Kevin ran the test and he did a Manhattan, and he wasn't sure whether he saw an effect from freezing to Manhattan and letting it thaw again. I've run tests of Manhattans that have been almost frozen, and I haven't noticed much of a difference over the short term. Maybe it's oxidation because you're allowing the Manhattan to be exposed to uh air and you're not purging it before you freeze it. Um so that could be the change that you're looking at. I'd have to do a bunch of side-by-side tests.
+
+[55:23] The only way I could think of it being true is if uh something were to drop out of solution during the freezing, let's say the wood, and then not get resuspended again or not get you know resolubilized again when it thaws, that I could see. That would be akin to freeze concentration, but I would have to see it to believe it. Uh Roro feeds. Uh I was listening to the Tropical Standard episode and bought the book hoping for some greater clarity on banana juice, pun intended. Uh, but I'm left wanting a little more.
+
+[55:52] A centrifuge does not fit my glorified hobbyist budget, so I've been relying on time infiltration. My two enemies time filtration. Current recipe, uh I SUV banana puree with an amylase at 144. We talked about that a little bit, three to five hours. Squeeze out the juice, add pectin X, and then let it sit for an hour before filtering it again.
+
+[56:09] I end up with about 60 to 70% juice by banana puree weight, but I'd like to improve it. That's pretty good, actually. You know, banana is not the most liquidy of things. That's pretty good. I'd like to improve it.
+
+[56:20] Sometimes it comes out with a hint of bitterness, and sometimes the flavor profile is too short. Am I doing something wrong? Could I use alcohol extraction that you use in a center fusion use my current uh strategy of time plus filtration? Well, you could definitely use alcohol, but it's gonna dilute the flavor even more because you're putting alcohol into it. Also, the stuff that's left over uh holds on to the the when you mix fruit and alcohol, and uh, you know, this is one of the things they claim for suppression, but really it works anytime you're doing this, is when you mix fruit and alcohol and you put them together for a long time, the fruit tends to absorb some of the wood and other kind of nasty things that are in the alcohol.
+
+[56:57] Uh so there's a liquor, it's all remain nameless, it's actually gone out of business, and I hated the taste of it. And I had I hated it. It's always a terrible product. And uh, but at the French Culinary Institute, we were getting paid to use it. So I had to use it.
+
+[57:10] And I discovered that uh pears are relatively neutral. So they wouldn't add, you know, not great pears. Talking like, you know, supermarket, medium, you know, medium ripe. I'm not talking like, you know, I'm not talking like, you know, comese pears, like freegan, like high-end floral pear. I'm talking like supermarket, like green unripe bartlets.
+
+[57:32] You stick the pear in, you hit it with a vacuum, infuse that stuff in, and the pear absorbed a lot of the poison out of this liquor and made it completely usable. The pears were unusable because they tasted like the poison. But it was relatively easy for me to get pears from the storeroom, make this liquor not taste terrible. And then everyone I was working with was like, Dave, you're gonna splip, you're gonna slip, you're gonna say something during the thing about how you hate the flavor of it. I'm like, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not.
+
+[57:58] So I don't know what the bitterness is, but we'll we'll look at it. All right. Uh we had another question, which I think I have time for. I have a minute and 51 seconds. Uh O'Killion writes, I finally saved up enough to look at buying my own roto vap, having experimented a bit uh thanks to a friendly chemistry professor over the last few years.
+
+[58:15] I seem to recall Dave having some negative comments towards the IKA, which might be ECA brand roto vaps in the past. Their automation seems pretty tight and in general looks to be an impressive product in my price range and relatively local. I'm based in Europe. Uh what is specifically wrong with them and what alternatives would you recommend? Well, Nastasi and I flew over to London at the behest of uh was it Oxley?
+
+[58:35] What was that gent, Stas? The rotovap gen. Yeah. Yeah. And so yeah, so we we get flown over there, which was beautiful, first class, right?
+
+[58:43] Nice. And uh, and so we we show up and they've spent all this money first class flying us out there, and they have this uh IKA rota vap. Now, Stas and I, we're used to exactly two kinds of roto vaps. Uh the one I buy on eBay and I keep together with uh like literally sealing it with butter and prayers and like you know, you know, sugar and all this kind of stuff, and like the brand new one that uh that uh Robert Crotchfeld got us to go on Jimmy Fallon with, right? So we show up, it's not our rota vap, the cooler wasn't adequate, and just leaked like a mother.
+
+[59:13] It just leaked, and it just was just garbage. Remember, Stas, it was just just a garbage piece of machinery. It was just trash. Yeah, yeah, it just sucked. Even this, you know, like we were both like, this is trash.
+
+[59:25] So uh that was my experience, but that was like 10 years ago. So uh, you know, maybe they got their house in order. In terms of control, when you're buying a roto vap, unless you want to spend, you know, a couple hundred hours learning to be good at roto vaping, get one that controls the distillation based on the distillation vapor temperature in the condenser. Is that clear what I'm saying? You want it to drive the vacuum level based on the temperature delta between the distillation flask and the condenser.
+
+[59:54] That is the only way to automate roto vap work so that you don't have to sit there and keep tweaking the vacuum level over time if you want to have uh a good product. And that is the difference between good roto vapping and bad rova roto vapping. Uh I'll get to the other questions uh later. Uh and uh cooking issues.
\ No newline at end of file
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live on Newstand Studios, part of Manhattan. Radio City. How you doing? Everything good?
+
+[0:22] Yeah. Good. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[0:24] Good. Yeah. Friday. Friday afternoon. Oh yeah.
+
+[0:26] Uh yeah. For those of you that we're recording this on a Friday. So we got to see how the Friday vibe is. What we got uh, of course, John. How you doing?
+
+[0:34] Doing great thanks. Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunate for you having to show up to the show before a service on a Friday, but yeah, whatever. I mean, it's just so slow that we have a an influencer coming tonight.
+
+[0:45] Oh, geez. Oh my God. You know who loves influencers? Is this Nastasia the Hammer Lipis? Just kidding.
+
+[0:54] Influencer. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So uh yeah. Yeah, you influence some people.
+
+[1:01] That's true. Sometimes for the better. Sometimes for the worse. Yeah. Well, that's Jackie Molecules.
+
+[1:08] Where are you right now? Uh LA. Back home. All right. All right.
+
+[1:13] And Nastasia, where are you right now? I'm going somewhere with Alexis. Okay, what state are oh, wait, what state are you in? Just tell me what state you're in. Why does it matter so much?
+
+[1:28] I'm in California. All right, man. California. All right. And we got uh Joe Hazen Rocking the Panels.
+
+[1:33] How you doing? I'm doing great, man. Yeah, yeah, good. We do not have, unfortunately, Quinn today. Uh hopefully we have to record again on Friday next week.
+
+[1:41] So hopefully, you know, he can be back with us next Friday. So uh any of you guys have anything uh good over the past how long has it been? It's been two weeks, right? I think so, yeah. I did uh what what are those what are those things called live?
+
+[1:54] What are those things called where you're uh for the Patreon? I did a live stream for them from from my house. Oh nice. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if it was nice.
+
+[1:59] Oh well. I have no idea if it was nice. Uh but I might do that again because we're also postponed until next Friday. Next week maybe I'll do one live from London because tomorrow I have to fly out from Newark to London, a place I have not been since, you know, well before the pandemic. So I'm assuming it's still there.
+
+[2:17] I'm assuming it's still pretty much the same, you know. Would assume? Uh uh Joe, you're uh you're you go to London quite a bit. How is it? Is it still there?
+
+[2:24] Is it still the same? It's still the same. Yeah, I haven't been since uh I've been haven't been in a couple years. Oh. Honestly.
+
+[2:31] Oh, that's right. Your trip was cancelled when you're airplane kind of broke down on the tarmac. Oh my god. Nastasi and I were talking about this. Every well, your airplane actually broke down on the tarmac, right?
+
+[2:41] Yeah, something to do with the brakes. Yeah. I just don't think they hire enough crew and pilots now so that they they cancel flights constantly. It's crazy. Constantly, I know.
+
+[2:49] It's nuts. Yeah. So you have to like book anyway, whatever. Everyone knows this. Not interesting.
+
+[2:55] Uh so what do you guys got over the past uh couple of weeks? Anything? Anything? Stayed at Nastasia's in Stanford. That was nice.
+
+[3:03] Did you uh the old apartment swap? Did you leave a half empty bottle of uh Alize on the counter? Or what was your what was your power guest move? No, I was very considerate guest, left it very clean. Um I think uh yeah, uh I did a 24 hour um cardnique test at the house, which went extremely well.
+
+[3:27] All right, now the big hit. So in and uh what was your technique? Uh oh I think I think it was one twenty-nine. We did it in a bag. Yeah, yeah, the big a big old gallon Ziploc bag, which is like packed to the gills and kind of precariously just submerged.
+
+[3:48] So it's always without like a really big zessal or a vacuum deal, it's always a little precarious, but I pulled it off. No, okay. Now hold a second. So 129, you say? What uh what is that?
+
+[4:02] What is that in uh in Celsius Land, John? Anyone can anyone do that math for me? That's not one of the ones I know off the top of my twenty-nine. Is that uh 50 something, right? What is that?
+
+[4:13] Oh, that was not correct. 57, no, 57 is 135. Oh, almost I'm lying. I'm sorry. What?
+
+[4:20] I'm sorry, it was 160, it was 74 Celsius. I'm I'm crazy. Okay, yeah, I think that was something else. No, yeah. Yeah, all right.
+
+[4:32] 74, 74. And the texture was good. Oh yeah. What made you choose 74? Um seriously it's recipe to be honest.
+
+[4:44] They give you three options. And what were their three options? Because to me, 74 is kind of an in-betweener. Like I'm not sure. In other words, 74 is yeah, it's an in-betweener.
+
+[4:53] Like it like, it's like not like a traditional, but it's higher than a low type. It's like in that kind of weird zone. Yeah. The three options they list are 63, 74, and 85. 63.
+
+[5:07] I used to do 63. 63. 63 is like 48 hours. Uh and seventy-four shouldn't take twenty-four, but I mean I don't know how much what what difference is going to be. So 12 to twenty-four, but they're I would say 12 is more accurate.
+
+[5:26] Yeah. And then um, yeah. And but like I like I just when I'm doing that, I you know we just do a side by we'll do that, we'll do the side by side. Whenever I used to do side by side of those kinds of things of like long cook things, like I would get the entire room of people together, right? And then we would do short ribs that I put into the bag.
+
+[5:47] I never did it with uh shoulder, but short ribs in a bag, boneless, come on. And then uh we would just basically boil them at braised temperature, right? And then we would do, you know, for short ribs, you don't typically go that high. So an in-betweener would be like 60 for short ribs, but you go lower like 57 Celsius, something like this, and and you cook them long enough so that all the textures are the same. And the vast majority of people prefer the traditional, vast.
+
+[6:14] Uh side by side. Everyone likes all of them. Everyone likes all of them. But the va in in some ways it's easier to do the long temp. And I haven't done it with carnitas, by the way.
+
+[6:22] I have not, so let's just stipulate that. I mean, pork b everyone knows that low cooked pork pork belly is delicious. But uh, and that's also typically an in-betweener temperature. A lot of people go in like 69, 70, although I used to do it like 63, 64. Anyway, point being that uh uh you know, I need to do more of those kind of uh side by sides, because I used to do them all the time when I was at the French Culinary Institute, but I don't know.
+
+[6:49] It is what it take it take it for what it is, but I'm glad that everyone enjoyed it. And the cool thing is is that you can just let it rock and then pull it out and like you know, crisp the hell out of it whenever you want to. So it's super convenient. You know what I mean? Yeah, extremely convenient.
+
+[7:04] Did you acidify it at all? Were there any was there any acid or was it a salt, pepper, and like whatever cumin or whatever in the hell else you put in oregano, what uh garlic? What orange, no, the orange, orange juice, like a fresh squeeze orange and then leave the peel in there and uh some onion and cinnamon and so the uh the uh the other question I always have in long cooked situations with like super long cooks, by the way, I go the opposite direction. Typically, when I do like that this style, any porky stuff like this, I'm way behind the eight ball, so I pressure cook it. And it's I mean, pressure cook the ever loving snot out of it.
+
+[7:45] And it's it's real good because it the pressure cooking at a high temperature amplifies the kind of meaty flavors of it. So what we should do is it because that we never did at the French Culinary State. We never did standard braise, right? Or whatever you want to call what they do to Carnite Tessel cook, whatever. Standard braise, pressure cook, and then two different uh sous videos.
+
+[8:06] The nice thing about the about the non-in-betweener sous vides is that the meat, the the connective tissue renders into gelatin, but it doesn't fully liquefy. So you can cut the meat into perfect cubes. To me, that was the cool thing about it, is that you could fabricate the low temp uh kind of braises into kind of perfect things that could be skewered. They wouldn't like shred themselves in the pot like uh like a traditional braise would. And so, you know, you could do these like awesome things where you would like make these like blocks or cubes and then like and like perfectly sear them on the outside and then hand them in, you know what I mean?
+
+[8:44] Anyway, you did the roast off. Do you ever do the uh you ever do the uh pan finish on them where you like let them sit in their own juices and reabsorb all their juices, then like you drain some of the juices off and then you pans like after you shred it, right? You shred it, you pan sear the hell out of it, scrape it off, get all the crusty bits, and then pitch it back with the the juice again and let it soak up, and then you put it in the keyboard. Yeah, it's good. It's real good.
+
+[9:14] And you know, that's what I do typically. Anyway, umrigy. What about you, Stas? You got anything? Uh no, I didn't really.
+
+[9:26] It was really hot in LA. I didn't cook anything at Jack's place. Did you eat? Did you I didn't want them ruined his kitchen? Uh all of his stuff was oh, what stuff?
+
+[9:36] Like cooking stuff. Wait, you're saying that Jack has like some like really like pristine cooking stuff and you're afraid to touch it for fear of messing it up? Because I kind of want to know this. Like I've never been to Jack's kitchen. Oh nice.
+
+[9:46] Like what kind of like what kind of stuff? What do you got there, Jack? What's what's your what's your like everyone has the one thing in their kitchen where they're like, ooh, that's my that's my thing. Like, you know, that only you appears all pro. Oh.
+
+[10:02] Yeah. I'm getting some good feedback on the pro. The pro really is better. I wish we could get more of them in the country. I love the pro.
+
+[10:09] I use the pro at home. Really? Anyway. No, I shouldn't use that much. They should almost be back in the country.
+
+[10:15] Oh, they actually they're actually on the water now. They should be on the water next week, yeah. Pro on the water. You got that in my head now. It's not my fault, man.
+
+[10:30] Everyone knows. What's up? I got fishbowled by a kid wearing the old school, like you remember like in the in the 90s, in the like the early 90s when everyone had the super high hat, the super high baseball hat with the hyper flat brim and the sticker on the side. It's coming back. I just saw like a nine or a 10-year-old rocking the rocking the super flat, super crisp Yankees hat, like way the heck up high on his head.
+
+[10:55] I kind of like that look. I've always loved that look because I'm like, how is that thing not blowing off your head? I love it. Um it's always good. Like I hate it when like crappy things come back.
+
+[11:06] Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess. Not good.
+
+[11:10] Yeah. Well, you know what the problem is when it comes back, the people who it's coming back with, they don't have the referent of what the people were like the first time around. Right? True. So they, you know, they can't know, oh, only D-bags did that back then.
+
+[11:24] You know what I mean? Yeah. Anyway. Uh, but I don't think that tall hat, that wasn't a D-bag move. No?
+
+[11:30] No. I don't think so. Oh. Oh, Nastasia. Nastasia disagrees.
+
+[11:34] Well, I I didn't, I wasn't part of it in LA. I only saw like East Coast people doing it. You're saying in LA, like they were uh not your favorite group of. No, that was me chiming in with 5050. I was saying 5050 on that.
+
+[11:46] I think it could be it could be that. But I also grew up in Long Island, so I mean, maybe that's just all the time. That was your first mistake. That was your first mistake. Yeah.
+
+[11:56] Listen, no offense, Long Island, but everyone who's from around here knows, like, you're either like a Westchester person or a Long Island person. And, you know, the only thing we can agree on is Jersey Nah. That's the only thing we can agree on. You know what I mean? True.
+
+[12:11] Yeah. Yeah. Although, you know, my elementary school years were spent in Jersey. So I feel like I feel like I can play both of those sides, but I I definitely can't play the Long Island side. So, you know what I mean?
+
+[12:21] Uh lucky you. Oh, yeah. So, how many North Face jackets do you own? Everyone from Long Island owns like 30 North Face jackets, am I right? I did, yeah.
+
+[12:34] I won't lie. Yeah. Yeah, good. I'm glad you're not, you're not, at least you're not a liar. All right.
+
+[12:39] Uh John, do you already you have anything? I've been messing around with corn lately. And if you puree it and then slowly heat it up, it starts to set. It's interesting. Like fresh corn?
+
+[12:50] Yeah. Huh? And is is the is the fresh corn already in the farmer's market? It's just starting to be, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[12:56] Started last week. What are you? Uh Silver Queen? What are you? Bicolor?
+
+[12:59] What are you? Bicolor, but I probably haven't tried enough. Right now it's only the bicolor that I've noticed, at least on Wednesdays. But and what is your sh what is your de kerneling method? Since you're gonna blend it, it doesn't matter, right?
+
+[13:10] Yeah, it doesn't really matter. But I mean, I don't know, I'm big bowl, small bowl, flipped over inside the bowl, and then like you know. You're vertical. Yeah. You're not a rotary.
+
+[13:17] No. I mean, when I'm when I'm cutting it, right? Not eating. When you're getting the kernels off. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[13:23] You're you don't do the you don't do the you're like use Yusuba style rotary. No, no. Yeah. No. You're just like shump, shump, shump.
+
+[13:30] Basically, yes. And then do you milk the cob with your knife? A little bit, yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna make a stock with that.
+
+[13:36] And I add folded that back in, and yeah, I don't wanted to do it for a pasta, but it's not good in that application, or at least in the way it currently is. So tell me how tell me how this works. So there's enough starch left in it that if you just puree it and then heat it slowly, the starch sets, you don't have to bind it at all. Yeah, no. And then what level of gel are we talking about?
+
+[13:54] Like, what are we I've taken it to like soft butter kind of consistency? Um, and I even just left it in the Vitamix the other day and just let that heat it up and do it, and it. It's good. Oh yeah, yeah. I'm sure everyone around you loved you.
+
+[14:08] Oh, geez. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, no, it's interesting, so I don't know. Gonna see what I can do with it. Now I'm getting more of your kitchen.
+
+[14:19] I had to whatever crap on them. Who cares? That's what they think. Ah yeah. I'll try your corn.
+
+[14:26] You know what I like? That's kind of a it's not corn pudding, but you put it in my head is a spoon bread. I love spoon bread. Very good. Oh my god.
+
+[14:33] You know, I've never had spoon bread out. I've only made it myself. You ever had it out? Who's serves a cornbread? I think my mom's made it.
+
+[14:42] That's the only way of maybe like other family gatherings. Yeah, I don't know. It's good though. Yeah, real good. Uh oh yeah.
+
+[14:49] You think about corn cobs? I've I know we said this before. Does anyone on earth like baby corn? No. I don't.
+
+[14:57] No. No. It's Jack, are you gonna be like you're not chiming in? So does that mean that you actually like it and you're just embarrassed to say so? No.
+
+[15:06] No. Yeah. No, right? Why does it exist? Like, what's it for?
+
+[15:12] I don't know. Like, the texture's not good. The flavor's not very good. I mean, like, what what is it? Why does it exist?
+
+[15:22] Anyone? Like, conceptually, it's cute. I'll give it that. It's cute. Like, why why else does it why?
+
+[15:30] Yeah, I don't know. You don't even have conjecture, right? That's how little it should exist. Okay. Have any of you ever bought, I'm gonna answer no for me.
+
+[15:40] Like, why would you buy canned boiled potatoes? Yeah, I don't care. I don't know. I mean, like, why would I mean have any of you ever bought that? Why would you buy that?
+
+[15:56] Now, I do have from being a child, a soft spot for the disgusting pasty canned sausages. You know what I'm talking about? Like Vienna fingers. Yeah. Where like they're literally like sure.
+
+[16:07] Yeah, it's halfway between a sausage and a pat take that's been canned so hard. And you know, the two the two cut ends, they look, you know. Yeah. I do have a soft spot for that. And I also loved, I haven't had it in years.
+
+[16:20] The um like devil would the devil the potted meats, the deviled meats, the ones that are like halfway between a riette and dog food. You know the ones I'm talking about? I love those. You know what I mean? Back in the day.
+
+[16:33] Anyway, I don't know. I don't know how I got on this. Uh all right, so I have so much crap to talk about that we should probably talk about it later and just do some questions first. What do you guys think? Anything else I'm missing pressing stuff?
+
+[16:45] Any uh business stuff, Stas that we need to talk about? Um what we have two more months of Benzol sales. Is it a full two? I thought it was like like a month and change. Um what kind of cool stuff have you figured out about the spinzel?
+
+[17:01] All right. Well, since you asked John, uh I we've been messing with the with the program, right? So it's now going like it's going faster now. So 4330. I don't know if I'm gonna try to push it even higher because it's spinning a lot better now, but the upshot is that you know, uh four minutes is now like my standard go-to spin on pretty much anything.
+
+[17:25] Yeah. And I've also increased the acceleration on it. So now it gets up to speed in 30 seconds. And I just uh, you know, yesterday was running some tests on faster deceleration time. So if you decelerate too quickly, it rips the puck apart.
+
+[17:40] And so uh I was testing, you know, uh tomato because you know it's got a pretty loose puck and anyone else wants to tweet me and tell me something else to test something that they have trouble with they want me to test before I lock this in but 30 seconds is still the puck doesn't break up at all on tomato and uh so yeah so now a full cycle from start to stop five minutes flat five minutes flat from from shut to open five minutes flat and uh the other thing is is that the pump now goes super fast on the high speed so you could it's always advisable to fill when you're doing continuous work it's always advisable to fill the rotor uh with the pump because what happens is the crap that floats on top if you just dump it in the rotor that stuff will get pushed out first and cloud everything up if you feed it into the into the with the pump that floaty crap gets uh filtered out by the by the tube feeder right so but now it used to be it would take like minutes to fill your thing even at fast speed but now it's like under a minute to fill it with with the pump or it's exactly a minute almost it's a 475 a minute and then the slow now is super slow so slow that like I was getting almost batch level clarity on um continuous mode. So all in all great changes the only negative thing that's happened recently is the uh safety lab would not allow so in the in the old one uh it was they deemed it too easy to push down and and start it so the old one if you put if you just take your finger and push real hard where on where the lid lock thing is supposed to go. Uh, you can kind of engage the you can make it think that the motor is there. And they didn't have a problem with that because the shaft at the top was smooth, but now that it's got a heck shape, they they they're not happy with that. So they're making us make the lever arm in the bowl a little bit longer.
+
+[19:32] Uh, and the upshot of that is is that the the only negative is that the bowl is no longer backwards compatible. So you can no longer use a 1.0 bowl in a 2.0 and vice versa. So that's the only negative. The lids already weren't compatible. Yeah.
+
+[19:46] And the rotors are still compatible in the tube feeders. Uh, I'm investigating changing the tube feeder, but that will not be in this run, probably won't be for another year or so. But that will be backward compatible. So people can get a new lid and a tube feeder should I ever change it. Uh that's it.
+
+[20:00] That's good. Uh I've been doing a lot with ginger and magnesium carbonate. People, there are two different magnesium carbonates out there. Uh, I got to do some testing on the second kind. There's heavy magnesium carbonate and light magnesium carbonate, and you can really tell the difference.
+
+[20:17] Light magnesium carbonate is like uh enzorbit level lightness. It's like super non-dense, it's like super fluffy. And the dense stuff is dense. So I haven't tested the dense stuff to see whether it works as well. I'm hoping I can test it this afternoon before I pack up to fly out.
+
+[20:36] Um just because I want to know whether you need to worry about it. Uh, I've already mentioned lactic acid on the show, right? That I was wrong about that all these years. Did I already mention that? I don't think so.
+
+[20:46] Oh, jeez. Get this, people. So in liquid intelligence version 1.0, I say this is one of those rare situations where if you making a mistake, two mistakes canceled each other out. And those two mistakes canceling each other out has led me to 10 years of wrong thinking, right? But the recipe worked.
+
+[21:08] This is why you have to be open to like observation of what's going on. So I always didn't like buying liquid acids, like for instance, phosphoric acid and lactic acid are both available as liquids, right? Phosphoric acid is the only way I know to get it as a liquid. Uh so but I always recommend, and I wrote it in liquid intelligence. I was like, get the powdered lactic acid because I like being able to measure it.
+
+[21:29] I don't, you know, I want them to ship me a powder. I want to carry powders with me, make my own solution, blah, blah, blah. At the exact weight. No lactic acid powder says on it that it's not pure lactic acid. I did mention this.
+
+[21:41] Yeah. So it's only like 50%, the one I measured that I got at Calustin's is only 55% pure. So the upshot is that my champagne acid, which is one to one tartaric to malic at six percent, ends up being about as sour as lemon or lime juice. So I always assumed that it was because they all had relatively the same sourness at the same concentration. But no, it's because tartaric acid is in fact more sour than malic and citric, and lactic acid is a little bit less, but I was also using impure lactic acid.
+
+[22:13] So now I have to re-mentalize all of that for the second go-around on the book. Anyway. Turns out I'm gonna do nothing. All right. Uh so I have on my sheet here, John, promote the Patreon membership and mention upcoming guests.
+
+[22:27] So do you know who they are and what I should promote? Uh I can find out who the upcoming guests are, but in the meantime, Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Um, as always, you know, there's different levels of membership, uh, three different levels, and you get perks at every level. You get to have your questions answered uh, you know, as quickly as possible. Dave prioritizes answering those you get access to fun live streams on Patreon, which Dave has started doing, wants to keep doing.
+
+[22:52] Yeah, I'm gonna keep doing that. Like the question is trying to figure out a time people can get on, you know. And the other problem with it, maybe someone can let me know is uh like it's weird because like uh I can read what people type into the thing, but there's no kind of give and take. I tried to have Quinn on for a little while. We couldn't figure it out because I wasn't doing it on my phone.
+
+[23:10] We'll try to figure out a better, a better mechanism. But anyway. Um like I said, maybe I'll do one from London. All right, do what did you already say who what guests are coming on? I think we need to schedule a little more.
+
+[23:24] Um yeah. So any suggestions for guests, let us know and we'll try and uh and make some things happen. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know what?
+
+[23:31] We've never had we've never have we ever had a guest on, Nastasi, we ever had a guest on where we were like, it was like almost like pugilistic, where we really just completely disagreed about everything. We almost did, right? You were gonna book someone on once. I think we did. I think we did.
+
+[23:49] I have to think about it. Yeah. I mean, we used to have uh your buddy used to call in all the time and just like poke the bear, just give me like get me all riled up. Remember that? Those are the those are the good old days of like she would call and just say some sort of crazy bull crap and just get me bent, just get me super bent.
+
+[24:10] Oh my god. I don't remember that now. Remember you Claire used to call in and like you would just you would get Claire. Yeah, you would get her to call in and just like I mean, just like say things that I could because you know, like, you know me, right? I was like, I'll take it, I'll take it, I'll take it, I'll take it.
+
+[24:28] And I'm like, what the hell are you talking about? You know what I mean? I just get to that point. So people don't know. Yeah.
+
+[24:35] People don't know they're reaching that point. Cause all of a sudden I'm like, I can't, I can't, I can't. No. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[24:43] Yeah. Good times. Good times. Wasn't she also the vegetti queen? Yes.
+
+[24:50] Having having Nick on is pretty a lot sometimes, you know. Captain Greasy? Yeah. The Oil King? Yeah.
+
+[25:00] Uh I don't know. I love I love my man Nick Coleman. Like, I think he's good. I think I love it when he comes on, you know. We'll get him to bring a bass next time instead of a band Suri.
+
+[25:09] How about that? And we'll just have him do like Seinfeld licks, you know, like in the in the back, uh, as as we're doing. He can direct box into Joe's panel and you know? I don't know. I don't know, Joe.
+
+[25:18] Can he direct box into your panel? Yeah, of course he can. I got DIs. Alright, there you go. There you go.
+
+[25:24] This is why it sucks being a bassist people. When when you're a guitarist, right? When you're in a small venue, they might not even mic the drums, right? Because your drums are loud. The guitarist, they're like, how do you want your guitar to sound?
+
+[25:37] And they like care about your amp. They care about all your stuff. When the bass person shows up, they're like, plug it into the panel. You're like, what? You're like, I don't care what your bass sounds like.
+
+[25:47] Plug it into the panel. They don't care. You know what I mean? At least they didn't used to. Do they care now, Joe?
+
+[25:51] Yeah, we do. I'm a bass player, so I like to uh DI in. Yeah, but I mean, and you can definitely get, you know, there's gain, but if you want it to sit nice in the mix, like definitely DI. Yeah, but I'm talking like you're like the fifth, you're you're like there, there's like 10 bands playing, every band's doing a half hour set. Sound guy, like, sound guy cares not at all about your band.
+
+[26:13] You know what I mean? And so, like, they I don't know, as old days. Maybe everything's changed. I mean, most bass players just show up their whole setup. It's like so easy.
+
+[26:20] You just come DI right off the amp head. Oh, yeah. They never they used to always Y split me and like take my feed direct into the into their into the panel and then just like let my amp be my amp almost as my monitor you know what I mean? They wouldn't even put my crap in the monitor. Whatever.
+
+[26:29] I don't I don't mind that. I mean if you're gonna Y split you're definitely gonna lose you're gonna lose signal. Yeah. You know what was never satisfying that I bought uh I bought a uh a base Wawa and it just took all the chunk out of the base. Do they now have better base was that don't remove the chunk?
+
+[26:53] I don't know. You have to ask Eddie Lee. Uh do he uses use a wa? I'm sure he's got it somewhere in his signal chain. I got it because it's just like you know I used to just love the wawa sound so much.
+
+[27:04] No not into the wall on the bass. Yeah well I I never used it in on the roads yes. Yeah I never used it in I uh like I bought it and I was because I love it the sound in the records I was listening to back then but I don't know I never got at the sound you know if there's only one bass player it you you gotta keep the chunk you know what I mean? Why wa pitches the chunk you probably need a compression compressor after the wa. I don't know I didn't have enough money to buy the I think the Wawa was a was a gift anyway.
+
+[27:32] It was cool though. Good old petals are cool man they're so strong you know I mean yeah stomp on those mothers uh Dave Kleiman writes in is making golden syrup better in my coon recon what's the process in time is it still okay to cut up a lemon for the acid uh uh oh so that's one question then so on a golden syrup by the way is invert syrup that's been cooked uh long enough and high enough to take on a certain kind of kind of golden kind of color and you invert the syrup by uh adding acid typically. So like some people think that you can just heat it till it turns to a caramel and then water it down. That's not how you make golden syrup. You use acid.
+
+[28:14] The acid inverts the sugar. So uh an interesting, maybe maybe not interesting to you. Uh regular golden syrup is about 80 bricks, right? So 80 to 81, or right around what honey is real thick. So you can just put that stuff uh in with a little bit of acid.
+
+[28:31] I don't use lemon. I would, you know, I add like you know, two tenths of a percent or something like that of uh citric. And once it inverts, right, fructose uh uh turns starts turning y brown a lot at a lot lower temperature than either sucrose or glucose does. So the pressure cooker, even at first ring, can brown it up really quickly. And the advantage is if you know if you heat it just so it's like a liquid, then put it in there, is that you can time it pretty well, so it's pretty accurate all the time.
+
+[28:59] So that's what I would do. I would just dial in exactly how long you want it to go. It doesn't take long, by the way, once it reaches uh pressure cooking temperatures. So you have to kind of dial that in. Um, yeah, is that an answer to that question or no?
+
+[29:13] Yeah. Yeah. Uh invert syrup is uh is pretty cool. By the way, a lot of people, if you go to the Wikipedia page for invert si sugar, right? Uh it's wrong.
+
+[29:24] So any of you guys who are Wikipedia uh whatever they call it, editors, right? Uh it's wrong. It says on it that uh sugar will invert just by heating it. So that if you make a simple syrup and you heat it instead of using a blender, which is the way God wants you to make simple syrup, right? It says that it's going to invert.
+
+[29:44] In fact, it won't. Uh and how do I know this? Uh, because I did it. Uh so I I even pressure cooked it, right? I pressure cooked regular syrup with no acid.
+
+[29:53] If there's any acid in there at all, sucker's gonna invert, right? Any acid. But remember that the sh like people who make sugar don't want their sugar to invert. So they make sure that the sugar liquor that they're that they're crystallizing the sugar out is not acidic, right? Because they don't want invert, right?
+
+[30:11] So uh what you do is is uh I did it two ways. One, I actually tested for the optical rotation to see whether there was any inversion or whether it was pure sucrose, uh pure sucrose PS. And then uh I used glucose test strips for uh people who test sodas to make sure that they're getting a diet soda because they can't have uh they can't have glucose diet, you know, for diabetic or whatever, whatever reason you can't, and tested it with that negative. So no inversion on regular heating over normal periods of time. Uh there you have it.
+
+[30:44] Ums. I saw in the Tropical Standard book a recipe for oleosacarum that included either a refrigeration for a longer time or shortening the time with a sous vide bath. I was curious if flavor is best extracted without heat. I'm gonna stop myself right there, roll feeds. I have not done a side-by-side test.
+
+[31:01] And so I would be what temperature I wonder do they use? I would be very uh loath to tell you one is better or worse, because also there probably is no better or worse, they're probably different. And then the question is what's better for you? You know what I mean? So I think you know, do a side by side, let me know what you like better.
+
+[31:19] You know what I mean? Let me know what you like. Uh okay. Uh certain things I thought I was wrong, uh, thought one thing, and then when you do the test, you get a different answer. So for instance, daiquiries, which I have five time later, I'll talk about Tales of the Cocktail and what we did for the daiquiri.
+
+[31:33] Um, for instance, um, when Nastasi and I were doing oh my god, Nastasia, you remember how many tea infusions we had to do back at the FCI? So many. I I think back on all of the things we did so much work there. I know. So much work.
+
+[31:44] I know, I know. So uh Emric Harney, the uh, you know, current I current young generation of not young anymore, but whatever, of Harney and Sons, brings us all this tea, and we've already told you the story where he gives us a $400 thing of tea and and doesn't tell us anything, so we just throw it into a bucket of booze and make an infusion, which was good by the way. You know, but you know, $400 good? I don't know. Puer.
+
+[32:14] It's puer, some fancy poo-air. Um so he wanted to do a tea distillant. This was, I don't know, Stas when, like 2010, 2009, something stupid. And um like way early, way early. So we were infusing and then rotovapping.
+
+[32:29] And the point of the story is is that we were doing hot infusions and then rotovapping and cold infusions and then rotovapping, right? So not even just um stuff that's being extracted, but how the aromas are affected by the temperature. And there was a marked difference between cold infused and roto vaped and hot infused and roto vaped. And I would have expected the hot would be better because you know, usually hot extracts more of that kind of stuff. But in fact, people enjoyed the cold extracted ones more on the test that we ran.
+
+[32:55] That's my memory. My memory jive with your memory, Nastasia. I don't remember the that detail. No. You just remember shaking your head at the uh at the interns uh and telling them not to break the roto vap.
+
+[33:08] I was I was telling someone the other day, do you remember when I when I did that thing, we had a a student named me here, and I was like, we're gonna do roll fall, and we're gonna say, you're gonna say I'm here, and then you're gonna say your name. So just so I could hear him say, Me here, I'm here. Yeah, I remember you doing that. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[33:27] Yeah. That's uh, you know, terrible. Terrible. Yeah, should should not have done that. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[33:32] Well, you know, whatever. So long time ago. Yeah. We're gonna we're gonna give give give you the pass on it. Um, we were just talking about the break.
+
+[33:41] Oh, by the way, rotovaps. Uh people have been asking dripping trapping rotovap questions in roto. So back back when I was a boy, when we were rotovapping, right? It took a lot of time and energy and like a lot of skill to get it to work properly. And nowadays, if you're gonna buy a roto vap, just make sure you get the good vacuum controller.
+
+[34:03] The one that can here's specifically what you're looking for. Here's here's my three pieces of roto vap advice. So if you were gonna buy a roto vap, don't bother asking, because I'm gonna then have to muff earmuff, I'm gonna have to, you know, nostasi night earmuff. One, get plastic-coated glass because someone eventually will run that rotovap without wearing eyeglasses, and the ones that aren't plastic coated are dangerous when they implode, which eventually they will, especially if you're cleaning it in the kitchen. Your odds are you're gonna get some breakage and it can be pretty violent when it's under vacuum.
+
+[34:33] So plastic coated glass. Two, get the biggest distillation flask you can afford. I'm gonna give you four things. Get the biggest distillation flask you can afford because uh they boil up a lot, and you don't want it to fly into your uh condenser column because that sucks, especially when you're doing habanero. As we used to when we used to do habanero and someone would boil it over into the condenser, not only do we have to stop the entire unit, we had to break everything apart, clean all the grease off, and then thoroughly wash it.
+
+[35:04] Remember three and four times, and then we Nastasi and I would stare at them, whoever did it, and we'd be like, now lick it, lick the whole thing, lick it. And they're like, What? We're like, lick the roto vap. And if it was still spicy, we'd make them clean it again. Remember this, Nastasia.
+
+[35:19] Yeah, you can't do that now, dude. Well, then lick it. Yeah, I can. That I would totally still do that. And I was like, lick it again.
+
+[35:25] And then when it's not spicy anymore, then they have to clean it. Then they clean it again to get the licking off. You know what I'm saying? Why can't I make them lick a roto vap? You can you can make them taste their soup.
+
+[35:37] Why can't I make them lick the roto vap? If I say taste the freaking soup, they have to taste the soup, don't they? Yeah, but it's different between tasting a soup and then tasting like a really potentially spicy thing. They've cleaned it. Yeah.
+
+[35:53] If it's spicy, it's on them. They cleaned it. I'm not saying I'm gonna clean it and you have to test it. Yeah. I'm saying you're gonna clean it, and then you have to make sure that it's not spicy anymore.
+
+[36:07] You messed it up. No. Yeah, why not? I don't understand what's wrong here. Like, what's wrong here?
+
+[36:17] You're licking a piece of equipment, not a food item. It's a piece of glass. It's a piece of glass. You don't you can't make anyone do anything they don't want to do anymore. So even if they don't want to taste the soup, I mean they can quit.
+
+[36:32] They can quit, but the job is to make delicious food, right? It's not outside of their job purview. John, what do you think? For me, it's it's just like the element of spice being left there. Like, yeah, sure, they could have cleaned it better, but I don't know, like forcing somebody to potentially like burn their tongue off.
+
+[36:48] How are they gonna burn their tongue off? Didn't they clean it? Ostensibly. Okay, but what if they served it to a guest? And it's like yeah.
+
+[36:56] Yeah. So like you the I don't understand what's wrong here. Like, we're making a product for another person to consume. You are a cook. You are making a product for someone to eat, right?
+
+[37:04] Yeah. You have to ensure that it's good, that it's not messed up, right? Tasting is part of that. Yeah. So if you have a piece of glassware, I'm not asking them to lick the cooler or like lick the countertop.
+
+[37:14] I'm saying, here's a piece of glassware that we are, by the way, pouring a liquid into that you will consume in your mouth. Yeah. Make sure it's not going to cross contaminate. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[37:24] No problem here in my mind. Like, but like, are you gonna if somebody chops habaneros on a cutting board after they watch it, are you gonna have them lick the cutting board? Oh, for no cutting board, because it's hard to like that like what I would do there probably is have them like wipe it with like a like a uh bread. I would have them like wipe bread on it real hard and then taste it. That's how I have people t test oil.
+
+[37:46] Like if I if if the oil's on the edge, right? Yeah, I'm like throw a cube of bread in, like, and then eat the bread. Yeah. And then if they're like, I don't want to do that, I'm like, why are you a cook? Why the hell are you a cook?
+
+[37:59] You know what I mean? It's like, what is wrong with you? Yeah. Oh, I want to I want to go through the motions, but I don't care whether the food is actually good or not. You know what I mean?
+
+[38:07] Yeah. Now I understand it if you have like a uh if there's a reason if you have to cook something that you can't consume for religious or moral or allergy reasons. Get it. Yeah, get that. Yeah.
+
+[38:19] But it's a piece of glassware that we're putting potable liquids through. Yeah. The most sensitive thing that you own to see whether or not you've cleaned it properly is your tongue. Yeah. Okay.
+
+[38:36] Yeah. I don't know. You're you're just making it sound like a little fratty, I guess. It's like, you know, it's not fratty. Yeah, but like having them keep re-licking it until it's not spicy.
+
+[38:44] Well, how else are you supposed to do it? You tell me another way I can make sure that the next thing that goes through it isn't ruined. That all of the hours of work, all of the money that we've spent, getting the good habaneros, roto vapping everything so that we make a non-spicy distillate, right? All of that work that the entire team is putting in. I get it.
+
+[39:07] How do we not have that ruined? You tell me a different way to not have that ruined. And by the way, no one was no one was ever like, I'm not doing that. Because it's like no, that's but what Nastasia is saying is that was what, 15 years ago versus now. Yeah, but I don't understand the problem.
+
+[39:24] Like, what is even the problem? Because it was like this. It'd be like this. It's like interns not paid at French culinary asked to lick equipment headline. Like that's I'll take it.
+
+[39:36] It's just what I'll take it. I'll take it. All right. Then that's yeah. Okay.
+
+[39:43] I mean, you know. Uh, you know what? Another piece of equipment that sometimes it gets licked? The tasting spoon. Oh no!
+
+[39:53] I won't use spoons. No stainless in this mouth. Come on. Let's get real here. You know what I mean?
+
+[40:03] It's not like it's like you're making it look like they're crawling around on the ground. I'm not like, I'm not like get on your back, go underneath the prep table and scrounge around with your tongue out and your eyes closed and see what you get. You know what I mean? Yeah. Anyway.
+
+[40:18] Okay. Second question from Dave Kleinman. Uh, I'm making a burner for my homemade Tandoor. Uh, does having a pattern of orifice is in various sizes give me more versatile BTU settings? Will the propane only flow through the smallest holes ignited at the lowest pressure and move to the larger holes as pressure increases?
+
+[40:37] The burner's made of steel. Should I cover it with a refractory cement with skewers and the holes temperature? Ooh, you know, I don't know. I don't know. I'd have to see it, right?
+
+[40:45] So, like, uh, you know, to again, it's my favorite thing to quote uh to quote Rosemary's baby. Every burner is different. Or to paraphrase, I guess. And so um people who make burners uh are very careful to try to uh make them work for the particular application at hand. So some people will have like two actual different burners with two different knobs.
+
+[41:07] It's very hard to get a burner that throttles all the way from I'm going crazy down to I'm being mellow. It's super hard to do. Um and usually if one is flaming out, it's the gas is gonna come out of all the holes all the time. The question is, is it gonna sustain a flame or is it gonna blow out? And I don't know, you ju you just need to test, right?
+
+[41:28] I mean, like I can't really make any recommendations. Um you just need to test. But when you they don't they make burners for the tandoors? I think they make ones that are built for the tandoor. You know what I bet you?
+
+[41:40] I bet you those things work because they were built for the tandoor. So I would look at those burners. Um I I only ever used um charcoal and wood in mine. So uh I don't have any experience with gas firing uh a tandoor. Um I would look at what professionals do because professionals don't have time to F about.
+
+[42:01] I'm sure that works. Like whatever they use works, and even if maybe you can't afford the one that they're getting or can't source it, like see see how similar it is, right? Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[42:11] Uh all right. Uh oh, no, I didn't finish Railroad Feeds. We just started talking about um uh heat, right? All right. So back to we're back on oleosacrum, all right?
+
+[42:23] Just to reset your so you know what for those of you that don't know what oleosacrum is, let's just start there. You take uh it's kind of a funny word, right? oleosacrum. Yeah. So you take citrus peels traditionally, like lemon, lime, whatever, uh, although lime, whatever.
+
+[42:39] Anyway, let's just say lemon or whatever, you know what I mean? And then you you you put the peels in at the bottom of something, then you throw sugar on top, and you scrunch a scrunch of scrunch a scrunch, scrunch, scrunch of the sugar. Now, a lot of people are like, oil and the sugar, that's the whole point. The sugar is an abrasive. The sugar here is an abrasive so that you can smash the peels and just break up the cells and get the oil out, right?
+
+[43:04] Okay. Uh so you do that and you let it sit for a certain length of time, it macerates. The sugar also uh sucks the water out of the peel. So it you're extracting a lot out of it, but you know, a lot of the effect of the sugar is uh abrasive, and then that's used in various recipes, right? Yep.
+
+[43:23] All right. Uh so we're back on oleosacrum, and I remember I said uh from earlier in this show that uh I didn't know whether heat was going to be beneficial or detrimental. Certainly too much heat would probably be detrimental, but anyway. Um, although think about it, when you do cordial, you boil the peel. Yeah, but if you boil the peel for too long, so you know when you're making cordial, typically I do one to one uh sugar and uh and lime juice or lem, you know, whatever you're doing.
+
+[43:51] Oh, by the way, back to the golden syrup question. When you invert, let's say you were to invert syrup or make a cordal inside of a jar in a pressure cooker so it's sealed and nothing can evaporate, right? Right. Whenever there's acid present and you're heating in sugar, remember it's gonna invert. That's the whole point.
+
+[44:08] So inversion, which I I should have explained this more. Inversion, in case you don't know, sucrose is a disaccharide. It's got a glucose and a fructose together, right? So one of the disadvantages of sucrose is that it crystallizes when you have a concentration greater than uh about 67 uh bricks. So right, so maple syrup is right at that level.
+
+[44:28] It's almost all sucrose maple syrup, except for the flavor part of it. And if you get it any higher than that in sugar content, it'll crystallize. Honey is invert syrup, typically, almost all invert syrup. So that means it's that sucrose has been broken, either it didn't start that way, or you can take sucrose and break it into a glucose and a fructose. Now, honey can stay liquid all the way up to about 82 bricks.
+
+[44:51] It will crystallize if you are into those kind of crystallized cream honeys, right? But like even at 82 bricks, it's it you can keep it like a semi-liquid anyway. And you know, if you go even a little bit below that, it's not gonna crystallize because invert sugar can take a much higher concentration before it crystallizes than sucrose can. Okay, okay. So acid is going to invert.
+
+[45:12] Now, when you invert, and it's called inversion because it in case you guys care, dextrose is the same as glucose, right? The word dextrose, glucose, same word. You know why it's called dextrose? Anyone? Anyone?
+
+[45:26] No. Well, you know, dexter, like go to the right, like like dexter right as opposed to Levro, right? Dex. So uh when light goes through sucrose, when polarized light goes through sucrose, it's bent to the right. So it's uh so glucose and success, so glucose, which is dextrose, bends to the right, fructose bends to the left when light goes through.
+
+[45:44] So you can actually measure how much uh inversion has happened with a polarizer. And I've been doing it, it's kind of fun. Uh when you invert sucrose, when you break apart the sucrose, uh the sucrose to make a glucose and a fructose, you add a water to it. So what happens is one water m for every molecule of sucrose that gets broken, one water molecule comes out of your water and becomes part of the sucrose, uh part of the glucose and fructose. So the bricks goes up.
+
+[46:15] So if you were to even completely seal a jar at 50 bricks, right? Seal it. Nothing can evaporate with a little acid, heat it so it inverts. And now measure the bricks, it's higher. So it's about 5% higher.
+
+[46:29] So a 50 bricks syrup, if you invert it without evaporating anything at all, is gonna read about 52.5 bricks, right? So it's just so you know, like when you're heating it and you're gonna invert sugar, all your bricks readings are gonna get tossed off. And every soda manufacturer has to worry about this, except for us because we use corn syrup. But all of the people who don't use corn syrup who use actual sugar and they're trying to hit bricks targets for their uh they have to worry about inversion. Anyway, um back to oleosacrum.
+
+[47:00] Um I've also seen people heat the oleo after extraction and melt the sugar, and I don't know why you would need to do that though, because you're gonna add liquid to it typically, like juice. Um and I've seen them do it with peels in the mixture and by squeezing the mixture from the peels before heating. Oh, uh, I know what I was gonna say. That's why I got on cordial. When you're when you're making cordial, typically you throw peels into the cordial and heat them as it comes up.
+
+[47:22] But it tr the way we used to make cordial all the time is you're you're bringing it just to the boil, and then and that boiling kind of produces that stable cooked citrus flavor and also extracts flavor from the peels that you have in the cordial, right? And then you're tasting it to see when the peel extraction is what you want, and then you're straining it all, right? Now, if you've listened to you know me talk about cordial, the the problem with cordial is that there's not enough acidity in it, so it's overly sweet. So it's uh traditional cordial is a little too sweet for my taste, considering how much acid, so I add acid back to it. A way to do it without adding acid to it, to have it be totally natural, is to uh boil it for uh a long time to reduce it down such that once you add the sugar to it, it's at its original volume again, right?
+
+[48:13] You get me? All right. Now, if you add the peels early on in that boil, because I did it, it is unpalatably bitter from the peel by the time you're done. So you can overheat the peel and extract too much bitterness. So if you're going to heat the peel for an oleum, be aware that the more you heat it and the longer it sits in that hot uh environment, uh, the more bitterness you're gonna be extracting from the peel.
+
+[48:37] Yeah? All right. Um, does Dave and Co. have any thoughts on the best approach for oleos? Um, I mean, I basically, I don't know, I feel like I've tapped out on oleo, but I've seen oleo recipes listed at one to one peel versus sugar.
+
+[48:51] I'm wondering if two to one peel to sugar result in better flavor concentration or if that just hurts food safety. I wouldn't do two to one because I mean, honestly, are you ever like I can't add more oleo because it's too sweet? If the answer is no, then you're using the actual abrasive power of the sugar to get the stuff out. I would just stay with the recipe that works. If you're like, I wish I could add more oleo, but it's just too dang sweet, then you know, sure, do that.
+
+[49:17] Or hell, mix some sand in with it. I'm kidding. I'm not, though. I mean, I'm kidding, but I'm not. You know what I mean?
+
+[49:22] Yeah. Strain the sand out. Once the sugar melts, strain the sand out. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[49:28] All right. Uh Justin Sherrill writes in, I've been saving vanilla beans to use them for infusions. Can I toast them and grind them up in the odd blender I have for more. Why is your blender on? Uh for more vanilla effect.
+
+[49:43] Uh, but they've still been a bit fibrous after blending. Is there a pectanex equivalent that would break them down for uh more or a better way to grind them? I don't think pectinx is gonna break the vanilla down because I think it's a little bit lignified, the fibers. I don't know whether it's lignin or cellulose, probably maybe either one is more difficult to break than pectin, much more. What I would do, were I you, uh, if you had liquid nitrogen, just freeze the heck out of them with liquid nitrogen, then blend them up to uh a powder.
+
+[50:09] Or uh on the other side, it's really I mean, a lot of the flavor is gonna be gone if you've already done if you've done a good job infusing the flavor is sucked out of that. As we've said before, like the most of the flavor is gone by that time. You could dehydrate them, right? Like uh if you dehydrate them completely until they're like husks, then the fiber is gonna break up a lot easier in uh in a blender. Yeah?
+
+[50:32] Yeah. And then do the old fashioned. I hate doing this. So I know I'm telling you to do something that I hate doing, but um blend, sift, blend, sift, blend, sift, blend, sift, so that you're not continuously blending the fine particles already. Uh it's a good way to it's a good way to make yourself angry at yourself and the life choices you've made, but it does make for a uh more even powder.
+
+[50:54] Uh okay. Uh Agos writes in question on pasteurization. I got my hands on some raw milk. What would be the best way to pasteurize it while preserving the flavor as much as possible? I suspect Sous V would be great at it.
+
+[51:05] I don't know, but uh John looked up some pasteurization temperatures. What do you got? Oh one was it was one 63 Celsius for at least 30 minutes or 72 Celsius for at least 15 seconds. Okay, so if yeah, I wouldn't do the high one, I do the low one. So here's what here's what I would do.
+
+[51:21] I would um when they're doing pasteurization and they want it to happen quickly, they pass the the milk between like very thin plates or in very like small tubes so that the heat transfer is immediate. So you don't have to wait for the stuff to come up to temperature. So I would do it for this in bags and keep the bags thin and then put the bags between two um cooling racks. So like when I'm in a half lexan, let's say, uh, and I want need to separate my meat out, like I'll have a bunch of quarter cooling racks and I'll use those because they have the little nubbins on them. So you could do uh cooling rack with nubbins down, milk bag, thin, you know, finish milk bag, then uh quarter rack nubbins up, another quarter rack nubbins down, milk bag, uh quarter rack nubbins up, quarter rack nubbins down, milk bag, and then finish with a quarter rack nubbins up, drop in your uh half lexan, and you'll get full water in between uh the things, and you'll be able to because you have to do 30 minutes from the time it comes up to temperature.
+
+[52:27] So you could do like 35, 36 minutes because if the bag of milk is thin enough, you're gonna heat through it relatively quickly, especially with uh, you know, there'll be some form of convection currents on the inside. Make sense? Yep. All right. Uh JPM, how do you recommend figuring out?
+
+[52:42] I'm gonna do you last, JPM. Uh Christian Sacco writes in uh looking for some quick tips on good polenta. I've never loved it when I made it, and I need some help with things. Add pork. Yeah.
+
+[52:53] That's called scrapple. And scrapple is delicious. I love scrapple. Anyone here not like scrapple? I used to not like it, but it's I've grown.
+
+[53:03] Yeah. I can see some people not liking it if it's heavy liver. Yeah, right, Jack's delicious. If it was just called like porky polenta, people would buy it. They're like, ooh, scrapple.
+
+[53:12] Ooh, Pennsylvania people. Amish. Who likes that? You know what I mean? Like, people saving money, making you know.
+
+[53:20] No, like delicious. Yeah. Anyway. I mean, that's the best way to, right? I mean polenta made with like a good, like, good stock and like some pork mixed up in that thing.
+
+[53:32] Chill, slice, fry. Yeah. You know what I did? Someone mentioned uh to me the other day when I was at Tales of the Cocktail, they reminded me that they had been to this dinner I cooked, oh, I don't know, 20 years ago, 18 years ago, at my old apartment where uh Food Network had asked me to make Halloween creepy foods. Did I ever talk about this?
+
+[53:53] I don't think so. All right. So I did a bunch of like I did like on my crepe maker, I made like spider web crepes with the crepe maker, you know, which is cool. Well, but uh the one that I was most psyched about is I molded my finger in silicone. Uh, and then I cut, you know, I cut it off.
+
+[54:12] I pulled my finger out and then cut it in half so I had a mold. And then I took polenta and I was keeping it warm and then molding fingers in polenta. So it with an in in so I was molding all of these fingers in polenta and then uh putting a like a Marcona almond in where the fingernail was, and then deep frying them uh so that they were like crispy because the the movie The Hitcher with Rugger Hauer, one of the scenes in it, I'm spoiling for you guys, sorry, but like is the guy goes down into his French fries and dips in ketchup and he pulls one up and it's a human finger. And so I wanted to do like the hitcher thing. So I had like French fries with the occasional polenta human finger in them.
+
+[54:49] Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. But you know, the Marcona, the almond was key, man.
+
+[54:54] Gotta go for realism. You know what I mean? Gross yellow fingernail. Um you know what? I think I used a yellow polenta though.
+
+[55:02] I didn't use a like a because no human is that color, polenta colored. No. Should have gone for like the, you know, whatever. Next time. Yeah.
+
+[55:09] Although I was deep frying it, so it's gonna get toasty color. Yeah, so it wasn't, yeah. Anyway. Okay. Um looking for some uh quick tips on good polenta.
+
+[55:18] I've never loved it when I made it, need some help with things. If you could just talk about it quickly, what would be lovely? Things like what courtness type uh coarseness type of cornmeal to buy. You know what you shouldn't do is try to make polenta with uh grits. You don't have to cook it forever.
+
+[55:30] So like uh I had some delicious uh what's that keeche keepsy boy uh grits, and I made grits with them and they're delicious. The uh, you know, whatever the Jimmy Red or whatever they're called. Yeah. And uh they're delicious. Yeah.
+
+[55:44] Uh and you're like, you know what? I want to, I wasn't actually making polenta, I was making scrapple. But uh same. So I'm like, you know, and I have these great grits and they're not gonna last forever, so I'm gonna try to keep and it just takes four of err. Eventually you'll get it, you know what I mean?
+
+[56:02] But it's just like, you know, you think that that kid in the sand lot things are gonna happen forever. Like trying to make polenta with grits, no. So you want like a finer, like more of a cornmeal-y texture, um, and less of a although I guess polenta is closer to Hey Stas, you are you a polenta queen? I like it. I don't love it.
+
+[56:23] Like, but I mean make making it. Like what do you because like do you use more like uh like a semolina or do you use more like uh closer to cornmeal that most of us buy is actually pretty close to a semolina. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[56:36] But you use regular cornmeal when you make it, or do you buy the fancy? I feel like for the if I'm making it like Nastassi, I'll cut you off. No, I said if I'm gonna make it, I think I buy the or I would have bought the fancy. Yeah. I feel that's what I would do too.
+
+[56:53] I feel like if you're not getting the good stuff, it's just not gonna taste very good. Yeah. Also, if you're gonna make it Italian style, buy the crap that the Italians got Pellagra with. You know what I mean? Like if it's good enough to give an entire couple of generations of people pilagre because they don't know about nixtimalization and they, you know, don't have enough nutrients because polenta is not a good I mean uh corn's not a good staple on its own unless it's been niximalized, you know, go the way they did.
+
+[57:16] We have vitamins now. You know what I mean? Yeah. Um, so we got coarseness. Although I look, if you can buy some of these fancy corn meal uh corn meals like uh not grits, but like the fancy cornmeal, they really are quite good.
+
+[57:30] Yeah, you know what I mean? Um like I like a but Jimmy Red would be Jimmy Red, right? And there's a blue one that they make. Um I think they've changed the name. All right, let's see what they got.
+
+[57:42] Well, Geechee did. Yeah. Because they're not actually geechy. Yeah. Marshan mill.
+
+[57:46] Marsh henmill. Marsh hen meal, yeah. Or Anson or any of those folks. Um, all right. I wonder whether I wonder whether Macienda sells any uh that aren't, you know, just cornmeal that's not been effed with.
+
+[57:59] I know that's not their mandate, but they have such good corn. Gotta hang it back on sometime. Delicious. Uh all right. Uh JPM writes in how do you recommend figuring out the titratable acidity of a fruit juice, especially with fruits that have variable amounts of acidity in a bar setting.
+
+[58:15] Historically, I have just Googled for titratable acidity and found uh ranges for most fruit. I found uh these methods, pH meter and by color indicator for wine. Would they work for fruit juices? No. Ha ha uh but I'll tell you something.
+
+[58:29] Uh JPM, I didn't really want to talk about this because I'm working on it for the uh the reissue of uh, you know, in a year or so of uh liquid intelligence. It's actually not that hard to do titration uh at home uh or at a bar. I've been doing it now and it's like super fast. That's how I found out that um that's how I found out that the lactic acid isn't pure. All you need is a scale that is uh measures small amounts that's good to uh a hundredth of a gram, and you need some uh sodium hydroxide and phenolphthalene.
+
+[59:01] All this stuff can be delivered one day uh from Amazon. I'm gonna write about it in depth. Um I don't know if I'm gonna do it on social before the book comes out, but I am, you know, I've been working on it in depth, and it's pretty simple to do. Uh and it's actually really kind of fun. You need a white piece of paper and some bright lights if you're my age, so you can really see when it but it's not titration with a burette the way that they people used to do it, uh the way they do it in labs.
+
+[59:25] You can do what's called gravimetric titration, which is titration by weight. And because sodium hydroxide is such a strong base, and these acids that we're using are weak acids, you uh it's a very crisp, clear color change, and phenothaline, which is super easy to source, not food grade though, works fantastically. Um, so that's what I do. Um, you know, do it like a couple of times and you'll be a pro at it. Uh it really does not take long to learn.
+
+[59:44] You do need something that can measure by the drop though. So, like eyedropper. What do you got? Uh I just want to say if James Wang will get to your Sabayon question next week. And thank you, Andrew Cummings, for looking up those recipes for me during the show.
+
+[1:00:00] Although we think, by the way, on the Savillon, I'll say this on the way out. I apologize, Joe. Uh, I used to have problems with Savillon all the time. Of course, I was doing it traditionally in like a bowl, like over a bane, you know, uh over hot water, whisking it. Savillon, you don't know, he's like you take like wine and whatever and egg yolk, you whip it up, you can do it.
+
+[1:00:17] He wants to do it, or they want to do a savory one. Uh every time that you don't cook it enough, even a little bit not enough, it's gonna break right away. And that's you're always nervous you're gonna overcook the egg. You didn't cook the egg enough. I guarantee you that's what happened.
+
+[1:00:30] You didn't cook the egg enough because it looks like it's great. You're like, oh my god, and then boof it dies, which sucks. So just make sure you cook it enough. And we'll talk to you next week. This time, another Friday episode next week, cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking News coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan and Rockefeller Center, New York City, New Stance Studios. Doing as usual with uh John, how you doing, John? Doing all right, thanks. Yeah.
+
+[0:22] Yeah. Yeah. On a Friday, not on a normal day. Yeah. Friday.
+
+[0:25] Yeah. Yeah. And doesn't even have his computer with him, so it's sitting here like basically naked. You know what I mean? Yep.
+
+[0:32] It's like, you know, in the Bible, there's Adam and Eve, and they have the they have the laptop across their genitals after they eat the apple. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, it's great. No, no, I have to listen to you the whole whole episode.
+
+[0:43] I know. I can't buy, you know, nothing to shop for, no Discord to go on. Discord to go on, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Tragedy.
+
+[0:50] Tragedy. Tragedy. And uh rocking the panels, Joe Hazen. Hey, good to see everyone on a Friday. Yeah, how you do it?
+
+[0:57] Do you what's your normal feeling? What what day of the what is Friday your Friday? Friday's my Friday, yeah. Um, I do occasionally work on Saturdays from like by 12 to 4, 12 to 5. Um, but trying to keep it chill with the family on the you know on the weekends.
+
+[1:12] Yeah, yeah. Got a lot of cooking to do tonight for the kid. Oh, yeah? Oh, yeah. You know, it's uh the the the allergy uh the allergy diet for the week.
+
+[1:22] Oh, so you do the whole week and then you basically, yeah, and we use the freezers packed. Yeah. So uh like uh, you know, Nastasi and I have trying to figure out oh Nastasia and Hammer Lopez back in Connecticut. How you doing, Stas? Good.
+
+[1:35] Yeah. So Nastasia and I for years have been trying to figure out some sort of something where we can convince people that a spinzall is a good thing to have for baby food. But I have to convince myself first, or I just need to find someone else who is convinced and just let them talk, right, Stas? Yeah, I think the harder part is you convincing you. Yeah, but I don't care.
+
+[2:00] Like, I don't need to be convinced if somebody else is convinced. Like that the issue is is that I don't understand. I don't understand what, like, first of all, I'm never gonna have to make baby food again. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[2:12] Like that, I'm done with that. Not if one of your not if not if Dax gets somebody pregnant. Whoa, get somebody. Your choice of words, quite interesting there, Saz. Yeah.
+
+[2:23] Not if we knock some some chick up. Man, geez. Yeah. Jeez, Louise. Uh yeah, but you know, I mean, my point is I'm pretty sure that my, you know, and also, I mean, I shouldn't say, I mean, like, you know, whatever.
+
+[2:38] I I just don't know. I don't know what it is that people want from their baby food that the spinz. I'm sure there is something. I'm sure you're 100% right, Nastasia. Maybe someone out there uh could uh you know figure out like some use for the spinzall that uh is baby food.
+
+[2:55] Oh, by the way, oh, and Jackie Molecules, we now got Jackie Molecules in you're out in Molecules Land out there on the West Coast. Um in the West Coast, yeah, moleculing it up. Yeah. Moleculing it up. Yeah.
+
+[3:09] So yeah, we need to find someone who listen, anyone who can figure out a good use for the baby food stuff, like we'll work with you because uh that would be a lifesaver, right, Stas. Yeah, it would just be great. Yeah, I would love it. Because you know what? People are willing to spend anything for their babies, right?
+
+[3:26] And then after they have their babies, then you get a whole new set of people that have babies. It's the best, it's the best business, you know, to be in. Like something where people only need it for a very short period of time, but then new people keep needing it. That's the that's the answer. That's the way.
+
+[3:41] You know what I mean? Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[3:45] Until they stop making new people. We we got at least 10 more years till they stop making new people. I bet. You know what I mean? Don't you think the hum you know, human race has got at least another 10 good years in it?
+
+[3:58] Safe bet. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm not, you know, I won't go, I won't say 50.
+
+[4:03] I don't know, but we got 10. We got 10 in us. You know what I mean? Yeah. Anyway.
+
+[4:08] Uh how you doing, Jack. I'm good. Yeah? I'm good. I'm actually uh I had a last minute uh change in plans on my way to San Francisco in a little bit.
+
+[4:20] So do you know that San Francisco's airport is one of the largest airport by area in like anywhere, and like definitely one of the largest in the country. Why? Like why would you like it's like some of the most valuable land anywhere? Why would they have such a giant freaking airport? All the travel to Asia gets routed through there, doesn't it?
+
+[4:38] I don't know. But like it's been there for a long time. You know what I mean? Yeah. I don't know.
+
+[4:42] I don't know what maybe think of that. I guess because you said San Francisco. Yeah? Yeah. But there, but and when they built Sam SFO, there was no travel to Asia.
+
+[4:52] You know, planes would have to like flight, like go to Hawaii and you know what I mean. Innovative than ahead of their time, Dave. Oh yeah. Which would be rare for someone in transportation to be innovative ahead of their time. Just look at I-95.
+
+[5:05] That's true. Yeah. I mean, it's yeah, yeah. It's like the least funny joke ever. Right.
+
+[5:13] So today is Friday, August the what? Fourth. No. No. That was last week, 11th, yeah.
+
+[5:20] 50th anniversary of hip hop. Today. Today. And I found out on my bike ride over here that there was unannounced at the at the Universal Museum of Hip Hops, uh, like doing some sort of concert. I think at Yankee Stadium right now, unannounced.
+
+[5:34] They announced it like 10 minutes before they went on. Freaking uh Flavor Flav and Chuck D got back together to do a public enemy thing live there that's going on right now. Right now. Instead, you're here with us. And there's no place I'd rather be.
+
+[5:52] I mean, I guarantee you there's no way that those folks are getting back together again. Like every time Flavor Flav like tries to make some money or do some weird like public enemy side stuff, Chuck D's like, this is over. It's not part of it anymore. It's done. And we obviously doesn't talk like that, but you know what I mean?
+
+[6:07] Yeah. Anyway, they were such a like that in Chuck T impression. That was good. But it was I was just that was my normal, like, you know, I'm angry impression. Like, but like he's like a, you know, like for someone my age, right?
+
+[6:20] So like 52, like public enemy when they're coming out, like in like as a New Yorker from that time, like his voice is gotta be one of like the top three iconic voices of all time. Like uh MC voices, you know what I mean? Like just I mean, Chuck D. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, yeah, whatever.
+
+[6:41] I was thinking if you went through all of the public enemy albums and removed all of like the like because Flavor Flav was always given like aside from his normal hype mass stuff, he was always given like one or two tracks that he would he would just basically just be Flavor Flav going nuts. And everyone always loved those tracks, but could you remove them from the public enemy erv and it still be the same? Or do you do you need 911 as a joke? Like you you need 911 as a joke, right? I mean, that's a great song, no?
+
+[7:14] Yeah. I mean, a lot of his stuff's jokey. I happen to like all of the flavor flav ones, like uh cold lampin', cold, cold lampin'. Yeah. Anyway.
+
+[7:23] Public enemy. Enough. Enough. Uh, so do any of you guys have any interesting stuff from last week? Because I certainly do.
+
+[7:29] I certainly do. I was in London. Oh. Yeah. Fancy.
+
+[7:33] Yeah. Uh my pinky. I'm still trying to push my pinky back towards my cups as I as I as I drink. But yeah, yeah, yeah. I was there, I was doing uh Kampari Academy uh UK and uh I'll get into it in a minute.
+
+[7:45] Let's do you guys first. What do you guys got over the past week? What's going on? By the way, Quinn is not able to come on today. He's uh under the weather.
+
+[7:51] We hope to have Quinn Quinn back for uh next Tuesday. So uh, you know, we we want to have him back, but you know, he's uh he's not protesting the show. He's just not he's just you know not able to uh get on right now. So uh so what do you guys got? Because he always has good things that he's done over the past week.
+
+[8:10] No matter what it is, it's some like crazy experiment he likes to have, you know, get done. Damn. I don't know. Crazy experiments for me. It's just been one of those weeks.
+
+[8:21] Yeah, yeah. I think everyone is in the industry can relate. This is uh it's hard work. Well, let's talk about working real hard in the summertime in New York for like and it being like the worst time to be in hospitality in New York. God, it's terrible.
+
+[8:35] How much do you love how much it sucks? Yeah, it's miserable, it's slow. Sometimes it gets really busy, which is great, but you can't plan for that. It's just yeah, yeah. What about all of like everyone's refrigeration wants to go down in the summer because it's so hot?
+
+[8:47] Oh, the ice machine at the restaurant because the basement's so hot, yeah. Yeah, brutal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And none of us can afford to put compressors, external compressors anywhere. We don't have the space, and no one will let us put it on the roof and me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me.
+
+[8:59] And like no one wants to put the investment in because the ice machine's been working for like three years, and we only have another three years on the lease and beep beep. So everything is always garbage all the time. And it just gets worse when it's hotter. Yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[9:14] Guys, where were you guys when we had that blackout in the early 2000s? Uh, I was working in the gray bar building in uh right near uh Grand Central. When all the refrigeration, everything went out. Yeah. So people were handing out ice cream.
+
+[9:28] You knew who was a real jerk? The people who wouldn't hand out the ice cream. I'm like, they'd rather have it go bad than give the impression that they're gonna give out the free. Yeah. Styles, were you in New York by that time or no?
+
+[9:40] Yeah, I was. And what did you where were you living at the time? Hell's Kitchen. Oh, me too. Really?
+
+[9:48] Yeah. I mean, I was south. I was I'm in the Garment District. Actually, Hell's Kitchen came online first. Like the power came back there first, and we didn't have power in like so.
+
+[9:58] My sister-in-law Miley, you remember you know where Sullivan Street Bakery is over in the 40s up there, high 40s. Remember where that is? She lived across the street from there. Not on the radio. Yeah, she she lived across the street from there.
+
+[10:15] And she was throwing a party on I for I forget the power went out. I forget what day the power went out, but she was throwing a party like a day and a half, two days later. And I said, Don't worry about it. I'll bring my stereo. Now, my stereo at the time was freaking huge.
+
+[10:30] Like I had these giant speakers that I had made. I had like a thousand watt amplifier that I had built. I had all this stuff. And I was like, Yeah, no worries, no worries, don't worry about it. And I lived on the 20th floor of like a garment district building.
+
+[10:44] And like we she thought the party was going to be canceled because the power power took two days to get back to me. Her power came back. So we hiked all this stuff. I carried the entire stereo system down 20 flights of stairs to take to her apartment because I am not a bad brother-in-law. I may be bad at other things, but not a bad brother-in-law.
+
+[11:01] Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone thought it was on the Long Island Railroad when that happened.
+
+[11:09] It was terrible. Oh man, that does suck. Yeah. Because then, because what are you gonna do? Did you have to get out and then walk down the tracks to get home or what?
+
+[11:17] That's exactly right. Yep. No, that's fun. Yay. Yeah.
+
+[11:22] I mean, I am I like I think I was not in the subway. I was above ground. So we just walked down, but I'm sure like all the people in the tunnels are like, ah, and there's no communication. Yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[11:33] And uh that was the one that was caused by some knucklehead in Canada blowing a transformer, right? Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[11:41] I mean, I don't I honestly to this day, people tell me what happened, and I'm like, what? What? Some some freak in Canada blows a transformer, and the little line of a billion dominoes somehow makes it to Manhattan and knocks out like the biggest city in the country. It was nuts. We all thought it was terrorism at first.
+
+[12:05] Yeah, I know. Yeah. We were I was working at a restaurant, Little Frankie's down in East Village. And uh I I remember when everything went out. We were we're giving food away.
+
+[12:15] People pulled their cars up to the sidewalk to put their lights on to shine light in. Cause of course they were still making pizza because they're doing, you know, uh pizza ovens. Um like the Vesuvian lava, whatever. Yeah, yeah, that was good. That was like really fun day.
+
+[12:31] Yeah. Um, yeah, you're like, yeah, right. Gotta cook everything now. Gotta cook everything now. Cause as soon as the power is done, there's no point.
+
+[12:41] Like, if you look, here's the thing. Like the Delhi people were like, maybe if the power comes back on and no one opens the freezer, it'll be fine. Cause in fact, your home stuff is fine for like basically a day. If you have enough thermal mass in there, if your fridge is empty, you're gonna lose everything. But if you're full of stuff, like you're okay for but in commercial environment, you can't redo that.
+
+[12:58] You're done. Yeah, that stuff's gone. Yeah. And then there hey, do you guys remember the people who did like leave the ice cream in the case and then try to sell it after the power came back on? It was all like people suck.
+
+[13:10] Oh god. People suck. And the dry ice deliveries and stuff. You try to get dry ice, whatever the freezers would go down, but you can't. If the entire city is down, you can't.
+
+[13:18] Everyone love when your power goes out. And at the school, we have these big walk-ins, right? So it was many, many, many, many, many thousands of dollars what you would lose if you lost all of your walk-ins. So we always, whenever we had a power outage, they would bring dry ice in. Yeah.
+
+[13:33] And then we just have to warn people not to go in there or you'd die. Like, you know, uh food's gonna be fine. You not so much. Not so fun, not so fine. More dead, more not living anymore.
+
+[13:47] So yeah. So that's what we yeah. Good times. What made you think of the blackout? Uh as soon as you sorry, changed my headphones.
+
+[13:56] Uh as soon as you were talking about refrigerators and walk-ins and stuff like that. I I just went back in time. I I basically I just remembered taking the bus home at like two in the morning because of the mess that we had to clean up in the restaurant, because it was just the disaster. I just won't ever forget on the bus, going home, it was just fully packed. I lived on 104th and first Ave.
+
+[14:17] And um, some guy kept on insisting that someone was farting in the bus and it smelled like popcorn. He I think he kind of enjoyed it. It was very bizarre, very bizarre. Whoa. Yeah.
+
+[14:27] I want to know what they were taking, and can I still buy some? Who's farting? It smells like popcorn. I kind of like it. What?
+
+[14:37] Like, man, I want some of that. Whatever that is. Yeah. I'm uh we didn't live in, we had just recently moved out of New York City when the 77 blackout happened. So I wasn't in the city for that, but I heard it was crazy.
+
+[14:52] Like uh the other one with the other big blackout was of course when we had the hurricane. There wasn't as much looting and stuff as people say. The city was relatively well behaved during that blackout. Uh, with the exception of the traffic lights not working, there'd be like T-boned freaking like cars just like littering the intersections. Yeah, if you looked at us like a satellite image of the city, it was like split.
+
+[15:14] It was like black and white. It was like 77th, and everything north was lit, everything below was blacked out. Yeah, yeah. Alphabet City was uh flooded, people were surfing in the streets. It was kind of crazy.
+
+[15:26] So Nastasi at that time was chilling up in Hell's Kitchen, right? So you got your power back like in a day, right, Sas for the hurricane? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And Piper, who was working with us at the time, this was when we're developing this uh Searsol and all that, and we had just opened Booker and Dax pretty recently, and uh he lived in Brooklyn, so uh Nastasia made him.
+
+[15:49] This is like a quest, like a like a some sort of like bad quest movie. Nastasia literally says, Piper, remember this? Piper, walk over the bridge into Manhattan, go to the Lower East Side, find Dave, and tell him that they want to use him on the Today Show. Swear to God. Swear to God.
+
+[16:11] Oh, yeah. Swear to God. And he walked over the bridge and freaking found me. Because we had no cell service. Yeah, nothing.
+
+[16:17] It was like, it was like like a Hobbit situation. You know what I mean? Anyway. Uh, and then I felt I felt kind of bad, like leaving the neighborhood because it was almost like I was like, I'm gone, people. And then we got sent up to uptown and had a we're like, oh, power and like showering.
+
+[16:35] Oh man, so fancy showering. Anyway. I'm still mad at the freaking, I'm still mad at the cell tower companies for not having any backup. That was the worst. Yeah.
+
+[16:47] We had to walk all the way up to midtown for there to be power for us to get phone service to figure out that we weren't gonna get power for a week. Jerks. Hey, uh Stas, Con Ed, on it, right? On it. And they had all their trucks used to get it.
+
+[17:03] Yeah. Remember that. Yeah. In uh in Union Square, where there's obviously still no power, that's on 14th Street. So that's like a third of the way up, not even like quarter of the way up the island.
+
+[17:15] So I'm there and I see like a con ed person. I'm like, hey, when's the power gonna be on? And I thought they were gonna be like, oh, like, you know, like two hours, three hours. And uh the dude was like, uh no, um uh the power is gone. I'm like, uh well uh, what do you mean?
+
+[17:32] Gone. And he's like vacation. Yeah, it's it's gone. And I was like, what? You know what I mean?
+
+[17:40] I'm like, yeah, anyway. And then we got pummeled by a storm uh the week later. I don't even remember, man. Nothing. It was freezing.
+
+[17:47] It was Halloween. No, yeah. Oh, Halloween sucked that year. Oh man, Halloween sucked that year. Yeah.
+
+[17:54] I mean, yeah, okay. Anyway, so uh anyone else got any uh fun stuff, uh non-blackout related, maybe cooking related? Anything, maybe? Oh my god. And so then Nastasi got really mad at me during that during the the Sandy blackout because I we finally get to go on the Today show, right?
+
+[18:12] With uh free, I think it was Kathy Lee was running it, right? So I finally get to meet Kathy Lee. We had met Nastasi and I had already met Regis back in the day because he came to the French Culinary Institute and we scold Regis Philbin, right? And then Bethany Frankel said some unkind things afterwards about it. Remember that, Sas?
+
+[18:30] That was you and Mindy, not me. Oh, yeah, it was before your time? All right. Well, anyway, so I get they go to the they they Kathy Lee. And Nastasi was like, I looked so angry and depressed on on that on that thing.
+
+[18:45] Nastasi's like, you couldn't freak in. Like the stuff I say to her all the time, she was saying to me. She was like, you couldn't perk up for even like two minutes for the segment? You look like you're ready to kill somebody. Yeah.
+
+[18:55] Remember that? Yeah. Yeah. Remember when the Today Show wanted the wine zombie and you said no? That I don't think that that's accurate.
+
+[19:04] I I understand what you're saying. I understand what you're saying. I remember something like this, but I don't be I don't remember it being as cut and dry as what you just said. How do you remember it? You tell me how you remember it in a more like not just one sentence situation.
+
+[19:20] They said we want the wine zombie, and you said it's a stupid idea, and we're never gonna make that and make it tell them no. Uh okay. Does that sound familiar? No. I there was many times where we didn't have one set up, so we would have had to build a whole new thing.
+
+[19:35] No, no, we had we had two. Piper had made two, whatever. Piper made two. You always roped me into making all of those things all the time. You and Piper would go there, and then you'd be like, Dave, it's not working, and I would have to come work on it.
+
+[19:48] So all the time I'm seen as the bad guy. No, no. At one time we had two, but they were always broken and janky, and definitely not today show ready, right? And they always had links and stuff, but you know, it's always like, oh, Dave says no, Dave said no. But then you're always like, oh, Dave, come do this.
+
+[20:06] I would help you anyway. Like the back of pasta flyer was basically wine Santa assembly like area. I still we still booker and Dak still has the wine zombie parts. So uh Santa is basically just a stick with a hoop skirt. You know what I mean?
+
+[20:27] Yeah. The dancing Santa. Did people did more people want you actually had three? You had two white Santa's and one black Santa, right? Yeah.
+
+[20:39] And so how many people requested black Santa versus white Santa? Because you gave us to give them a choice. Zero. Zero? Zero.
+
+[20:47] Nobody wants nobody wanted that responsibility. What responsibility? No one wanted Black Santa. No. Now maybe now, maybe, maybe, maybe people would want one now.
+
+[20:58] Yeah, it was uh it was a while ago. Hmm. I'm disappointed in humanity again. Uh I still think we have 10 years left in us, though. We'll see.
+
+[21:11] As a group. Uh, all right. So I don't have a food thing, Dave. But you know what did happen to me this week? I uh you know, I've been making I've I've been working in digital media for 20 years, and I have a ton of archives, and I finally decided this was the week that I was going to consolidate all my backups into one organized place and get everything on the cloud.
+
+[21:32] Uh oh. And in the exactly in the middle of doing it, hard drive dies. Oh yeah! Yeah. And let me let me wait.
+
+[21:44] How good does it get? Does it get like was everything chunked into one big file so you can't even get the stuff that you had beforehand, or did you at least get that first half off intact? No. It was the last folder was being moved to, and this was idiotic of me, to one hard drive, which was going to be the place I organized the backup. And that's the hard drive that died.
+
+[22:06] Oh, Jesus. All of it. So do you have like some sort of forensic weasel working on it? I do, yeah. Is it a Lassie?
+
+[22:15] I should hear. Uh, it's a C gate. Oh, Cates are good. You never know, man. I don't know.
+
+[22:22] Was it solid state or like a real old school hard disk? Sounds like a spinning disk. It wasn't solid state. It was just, you know, regular external USB. So we have to pray to the tech gods that these recovery people are able to save it.
+
+[22:36] Let's all let's all let's all think of Jack's data in our hearts. It's just a PSA to all the listeners. You know, get on your backups, keep your things organized. Send good thoughts. Don't be me.
+
+[22:48] Send good thoughts towards Jack's data. White gloves and dust free rooms. How much does that cost to get them to stuff back? Because like basically you need it. So they're like, we'll let you know once we figure out what's on it, how much we're gonna charge you.
+
+[23:01] You know what I mean? Is it like that? You know, they gave me a flat they gave me a flat quote. I found a good place doing a little bit of reddit digging, and uh it looks like with a replacement drive all in, it should be six hundred, which is not fun. But I mean, but at that price, are they good enough?
+
+[23:17] You need some CIA level people, some NSA weasels on your freaking thing, you know what I mean? Uh we'll see. Well, they're not gonna charge me if they can't get the data, so that's yeah, but if they can't get the data, have they ruined the chance of the next more expensive person getting the data or not? It's great question, but I would sure hope not. Son of a gun.
+
+[23:37] I hope the files are labeled well. Yeah, they were there were at least. Yeah, I I I've I've had this problem before, and if they're not labeled well, they come back decrypted like crazy, like I have to go through everything. Hey Stas, this makes our uh tech problem seem like nothing. Yeah, when you I was like, F me, and you were like, No, F me.
+
+[24:04] Yeah, but we got it back. That's all it's all fun. It's all fun. Uh oh, speaking of fun, so I I was in uh England for the Kampari Academy, UK. They own their whole the Kampari Academy there, they own or the Compari group own their building, which is kind of cool.
+
+[24:18] They have this whole building, which is nice, and you know, we were at the academy doing uh uh doing our our thing, and it was the first time I took our 2.0 uh Stas over there and plugged it into 220 power, and it worked fine, worked great. So yeah. So something's working right anyway, right? No problems, no nothing. Plugged it right in and away it went.
+
+[24:42] Yeah, it was great. You know what I mean? Even, you know, I was a little worried that it might get mad because uh England's plugs are so goofy. They're the they're the world's goofiest power plugs. Like, yeah.
+
+[24:52] Yeah, I mean, like, I mean, America does a lot of stupid things, but UK's plugs are ridiculous. They're like, it's like, it's like the Fisher Price Corporation made the UK's plugs. You know what I mean? They're like the size of your fist. They're like, you know, like they look like a lemur monkey's face.
+
+[25:11] They're they're they're huge. They are very big. They're like, you know, I'm not, I'm running a run, it doesn't matter. The smallest piece of equipment takes that giant plug. It's like it's not a dryer.
+
+[25:21] What the hell? You know what I mean? Yeah. You know, literally the plug weighs more than like the iPhone you're charging. It's ridiculous.
+
+[25:31] Anyway. Anyway. Uh, so I have to say this. I went, okay, so the food related stuff. I went to Hawksmore there hoping to get a Sunday roast, but they were out of Sunday roast.
+
+[25:42] And I was like, and I was there early. They're like, well, it's more of a lunch thing. I'm like, no, suck it. I didn't say that. I said I'll have something else.
+
+[25:49] You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. But my mind was suck it. You know what I mean? Also, I went to like just, you know, like, you know, not like some sort of hyper fancy, again, late, because I landed late, right?
+
+[26:01] And it was the first night when, so I wasn't, you know, hooked up with anyone, right? So I went to get like fish and chips at a, you know, regular fish and chips place near where I was staying. I was staying in Piccadilly. And uh I got there right before they closed. They were out of mushy peas.
+
+[26:14] I was like, why are you alive and you're out of mushy peas? Because I love me some mushy peas. Yeah, very good. Love me some mushy peas made with the marrow fat peas. Different pee.
+
+[26:23] By the way, people in the United States who like think that they're gonna make mushy peas just by cooking regular peas and mashing them up a little bit, and like throwing some mint and stuff. No. Different pee, the marrow fat pee. Uh, but in order to make them green, they typically put like baking soda or some other sh stuff in to keep those things uh green so they don't go brown with all the cooking and stuff. They're good.
+
+[26:44] I like them a lot. Anyway. Uh and of course, I mean, those size French fries are never, they call them chips. You know what I mean? In look, in the mind of uh, because I had this conversation several times, right?
+
+[26:56] So they're like a French fry is more like a McDonald's thing, whereas this thing is a chip. I was like, first of all, I will never say crisp instead of potato chip. And we just call them all fries here. It's just what size of fry do you want? And those are steak fries.
+
+[27:14] And they are fine. You know what I mean? Yeah. They're fine. But their fish game was very strong.
+
+[27:24] So, you know, I'd like to see more of that in this country. So even at the very end of the night, I was like, I want the fish and chips. And so the guy goes, I have a this is what I like. This is just a normal guy on the line at a you know, mid-range, like, you know, chip chop. He goes, I got, I got you, I got a nice piece of haddock.
+
+[27:44] And he opens like his fish drawer, right? And all the full fillet, full fillets are lined up, right, ready to rock, like being kept really nicely. And he pulls out the whole fillet, like like fresh, not like pre-done or anything, and then does the boop boop bat in the oil with the little hoo-boop, you know, the little shoom of like putting the thing in the oil, and then the fish and chip takeaway box because they were closing, so I couldn't stay there. The fish and chip takeaway box is the length of an entire fillet. And they put the chips down, you know, the mad chips that nobody, I mean, they care about them, but whatever.
+
+[28:20] And then the fish right on top, so that like, you know, it's the ideal way if you have to take a fried food out. And yeah, I was like, okay. Win. Good. You know what I mean?
+
+[28:32] You you have won this, you have won this battle, England. You know what I mean? Uh, so I was I'd like to see more like fish done that way here. Yeah. You know?
+
+[28:42] But it I guess it would be harder because everyone's gonna want a sandbag and pre- you know, pre uh get everything ready to fry so it's super fast, because I guess we're not doing enough of it to be able to do it the way that they're doing it. You know, I mean, their volume of fish is just I mean, also you like to charge somebody for a whole side of fish hair would be prohibitively expensive. I don't think people would be willing to pay that. Yeah, yeah, I guess. Yeah, right.
+
+[29:06] Yeah, but I was like, that's the way to do it. Yeah, you know. Fish for nothing, chips for free. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[29:14] It wasn't uh, it wasn't even that much money, I don't think. Of course, who knows? Because it's in pounds. So like my mind is not like, whatever. Yeah.
+
+[29:21] But mainly because I was being brought over by Kampari, UK, so I was teaching a master class. I'll say this. The freaking like like London is way, way ahead of where a lot of we are on specifically things like rotary evaporation. A lot of people are using rotary evaporators over there. And I think it's because their laws don't kind of prohibit it.
+
+[29:42] That's one reason. Uh, but I still have to figure out how they make it um, how they make it like sustainable from like a business model standpoint, because rotary evaporators are still quite expensive. So I don't really know how the economics of it work over there, but there's a lot of people using rotary evaporators over there now. So uh the last place I went I think was the most roto vap heavy program is the bar with shapes for a name you heard of this place bar of shapes for name and so like most of their stuff all of their stuff is kind of pre-bottled and then and in bat and they pour them out out of bottles but like they have like a bunch of rotor rotovaps going all the time and the uh I I learned some stuff because some of the things that I used to hate hey Nastasi do you remember the old rotoVap um connector that we were super excited to get where it uh it screwed together so we could open it up and uh and clean inside of it the old distillation flask remember that yeah yeah it's like a like a big mason jar and we were so excited to get it because like we always hated cleaning out the freaking flask right it was easier to lick this one well you could you could put it in dish and get the get the stuff out you know what I mean but the problem was is it didn't work it leaked a hundred percent of the time a hundred percent of the time this thing leaked so I I told everyone that I you know the five people I knew that were using rotovaps I was like don't buy it it sucks the new one works the new one it like just quarter turn click locks good doesn't leak so that was good the new uh the new things to take the uh you remember how Stas how the little spin doodle to get the flask off we people would break the flasks all the time with that little that little freaking metal arm would go over they would do it the wrong way we would have people coming in the first day they were training people would come in and we'd be like whatever you do be careful with this spin doodle right and they would just be this spin doodle and then we go and break $400 worth of glassware. And we're like, you know what I mean?
+
+[31:36] Yeah. Styles remembers. And we're looking and then we were doing the Homer Simpsons like, it's still good. It's still good. You know, remember when the pig was flying through the air and he's like, it's still good, it's still good.
+
+[31:43] We would do the same thing with the with the distillation flask because we always had so much we had to distill, right? And we didn't, no one ever gave us the money to have spares around. So we would use it up until the point that glass was flying into our eyes. You know what I mean? Anyway.
+
+[32:00] And they the new vacuums are much nicer, and the new vacuum controllers are much nicer. So, you know, whatever. That is what it is. So bars with uh shaves for name went to nomad, saw Leo Robichek's good to see that nomad is still uh a bar entity over there. Excellent as usual.
+
+[32:14] Uh went to uh Tayer in Elementary, which is uh Monica Sue and uh Alex Crutana. Great uh Monica Barrick, Monica Sue, Monica Berg and uh Alex Crutana, and um amazing program, didn't front, mainly taps, and then uh for the for that day, and then I didn't get to go in back because they weren't open that day. Uh and Artesian, which is old school, like old school modern, all amazing stuff, Quaint, Dover Yard, just a really good time. And then the last stop I made uh right before I had to leave Neil's Yard Dairy, and I got super stinky cheese. I had like all of my stuff with me, like my backpack was full, so I had to put it down, and I just got I got really amazing cheddar, really amazing Stilton and Stilton alike, and then I was like, the guy was like, I don't recommend you bring these softer wash wine cheeses home with you.
+
+[33:06] I'm like, I don't really care what you recommend. And I brought home like these things, like this thing that was kind of like a Langre, which called Saints Saint Serre or something like that, and then something that was called like roll right, roll right, and it was basically like a first triquesa, so it's like like almost like a Vacheron style, but with a piece of spruce wrapped around it. Okay, yeah. And I brought them on the plane, which was not cool. But tasted delicious.
+
+[33:35] Tasted delicious. I was like, people are like, what the hell? I'm like, I just smell bad. This is just me. I just smell like this all the time.
+
+[33:44] Can you see how much I'm sweating? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[33:47] I'm a super sweaty, smelly man. You know? Yeah. And you can't really, if you don't know cheese is around, you don't know it's cheese. I'm not gonna tell the guy next to me that it's cheese.
+
+[33:58] This is a terrible thing to do. I don't recommend I should not have done it. The guy was right and I was wrong. But the cheese is delicious. You know what I mean?
+
+[34:04] Yeah. Yeah. I think feel like Stas's would be Stas would have brought home the cheese if Stas wanted the cheese, right? Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, what do you know?
+
+[34:13] No, you're saying you wouldn't, you're saying new Stas wouldn't have brought the cheese home. Not cheese, no. I feel like old cheese. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[34:25] Stas likes something. She will she'll break the rule and bring it home. Yeah. It's true. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[34:30] Yeah. If it was something you cared about, that also smelled bad. Exactly. Yeah. I don't know.
+
+[34:37] Uh Zev writes in. I just watched a pretty convincing video claiming to debunk the necessity of gently folding in egg whites and angel cake, souffles, etc. Curious to get Dave and the team's reaction to this heresy. No, it's true. Like uh folding, um, folding is an ineffective technique that I think that tends to uh this was first debunked like maybe 15, 20 years ago by the Cooks Illustrated team, where they were doing I'm for some things, I'm not saying for every recipe, but for ancient food cake specifically, just uh dump the stuff in, leave the whisk, and just go hoom foom foom phone quickly combine it because you can combine the stuff together in like two seconds that way.
+
+[35:15] And I think you actually get less deflation, and so does Chris Kimball and the rest of the people that tested it at Cooks Illustrated. So to me, you know, uh, I just incorporate it quickly, but I still use the machine to incorporate it. When you're sitting there and folding, nothing's worse when you're making the angel food cake than the streaks of egg white that haven't been incorporated. And I'm like, you, my friend, were too afraid of uh deflating it. So instead you've handed me trash.
+
+[35:40] You know what I mean? It's like it's gotta be well combined. Yeah. You know what I mean? And the fastest, most effective way to combine it is to just leave it in the equipment.
+
+[35:49] Just don't run it forever. You know what I mean? Uh what were the other things that they said that uh they made? I haven't tested it with souffles. I'm sure, I'm sure all of these things are the same.
+
+[35:58] Like, by the time you fold it with a spatula enough that you have thoroughly combined it, then especially like in a souffle or something where the real problem is you're folding fat into egg whites and so it's deflating like a mother, right? Yeah. Uh, you know, I mean, by the time you're done trying to get the streaks out, just you should have just used the machine. Whoop, whoop, whoop, done. You know what I mean?
+
+[36:22] Anyway, that's my feeling. Uh Dave Kleiman, I've been doing Suze Vide since 2009. Uh, that being said, I was doing beef cheek beef burgundy style. Uh the bags were are well sealed. You know, I haven't cooked cheek in like a billion years.
+
+[36:39] I don't even remember the last time I cooked. Delicious. Yeah. Do you know what I don't enjoy? Okay.
+
+[36:44] Don't get mad. Uh so like I like Asabuko a lot. Like veal shank. I love myself some veal shank. I love myself some lank sh lamb shank.
+
+[36:53] I love myself some some pork, pork shank. Beef shank? I don't know. Yeah. I'll agree.
+
+[37:00] Yeah. You agree? Yeah. All right. All right.
+
+[37:02] So someone will get mad at me, but it's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Um not as bad as bear. Oh my God, that bear tasted bad.
+
+[37:10] Oh my god. Uh uh, where was I? Oh, yeah. That being said, I was doing beef cheek, beef burgundy style. You want to uh Mr.
+
+[37:18] Francophile give give the rundown on beef burgundy? Bef bougignon? Yeah. Uh yeah, beef cheek, I guess, seared off. Uh throwing a little flour, butter, make a little roux, add uh red wine, cook it down, add stock, carrots, onions, cook it down, then towards the end.
+
+[37:41] Oh, and bacon too. Add uh pearl onions towards the end. Little cubes, little little cubi cubes of bacon. Yeah. But not smoked, right?
+
+[37:49] No, not smoked. Um yeah, parsley over some potatoes and that sounds good. Yeah. That sounds good. I like that.
+
+[37:56] Very good, yeah. You say use the tiny pearl onions or your pearl pearl onion, man. Yeah, frozen pearl onions. Yeah, yeah, man. I mean, we know about the shape for this.
+
+[38:05] All right. Uh the bags were well sealed in a vacuum chamber sealer. All the veggies were browned. The alcohol would okay. So the reason I'm being told this is the veggies were browned, i.e., if you you have to sweat the veg you use in sous vide so that you get rid of the air that's in it.
+
+[38:18] You're trying to collapse them down a little bit and get the air out of them. That's uh one of the main things you're doing by doing that. Alcohol from the red wine was cooked off. That's another thing that can va a lot. Volatilize in the bag.
+
+[38:29] Plus, also it won't evaporate, so it's gonna throw off everything. Uh the meat seared. By the way, one thing I would say each pack was marinated overnight for 30 uh 6F, and the bags are emerged in a large, well insulated bath, maintaining a temperature of 140 Fahrenheit, which is 60 Celsius for all you uh people who you know use the correct uh, you know, cooking uh you know degrees for this. I'm gonna say one thing beforehand, and I don't think this is the cause of your problem, Dave, but uh when you're doing um braises in a bag, and maybe you did this, but you didn't specifically say so in in your prep, uh you want to over reduce your sauces, like almost until when they're cold, they're like ping pong balls. And the reason assuming it's got gel in it, and the reason you want to over, over, over, over reduce is that if you don't, uh all of the liquid that comes out of the meat as it's quote unquote brazing in the bag is gonna take it in the sauce is gonna become so thin that you're like almost in uh say patafu in a nice way.
+
+[39:36] Yeah, you're almost in that kind of a zone of like uh liquid levels, which is not what you're looking for in this kind of a brace. You want kind of a more uncuous sauce. So to get that uncuous sauce in the end, especially because meat cooked in a thin sauce doesn't taste the same as meat cooked in a thick sauce. So um it's not the same thing to drain it and reduce it. Plus also reducing bag sauces, you have to skim the life out of them because all of the weird proteins that coagulate later, because you have never boiled it, will float up and gunk up your your your pro stuff.
+
+[40:10] So in my opinion, it is better to over reduce your sauces when they're gonna go into uh the bag, just in general, um, so that they come out closer to what you want. And the same is actually, this is one of the main problems with braises in a pressure cooker is uh when you're in a pressure cooker and you're doing uh a braise, you can't have it be so thick that it scorches before it comes up to temperature, right? Uh and the thicker your sauce, your your braising liquid is in a pressure cooker, the much higher the chance that you get scorching, especially if you like, you know what old school, remember the old school like recipes, you like you'll layer the bottom with onions and then put your stuff on top and then liquids, and those onions are kind of like a barrier. So if there's any kind of scorching on an onion, it does it's not as bad as scorching some of the other things, right? If you do that in a pressure cooker, you have to add even more heat so there's more scorching because you still need to get it up to pressure, right?
+
+[41:07] So thickness in pressure cookers is a problem. That's why what I like to do is I like to do the cheat that I learned from the Belgians, which is I put the liquids in the bottom with like along with the alliums. I still do that, meats, and then the four slices of dark bread on top with the freaking mustard. You close that sucker up. And if you take the crust off the breads, because the crust doesn't melt so much, but if you take the crust off the breads, I don't though I leave the crust on because I don't care.
+
+[41:35] And once you pressure cook it, you can just stir that bread into the into the braise and it fundamentally disintegrates into almost like you know, uh like a ribolito kind of texture, and it's the best. And that way you get the best of all the worlds. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's okay if the sauce gets gets thick once you're up at pressure.
+
+[41:54] It's with if the sauce gets thick before you hit pressure that there's a problem because you need to get the entire vessel up to temperature and pressurized before you turn the heat down. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. And you know you're you have a problem if you're using like an induction burner, like the control freak, right?
+
+[42:13] So on a control freak, uh, mine talks Fahrenheit. Sorry, people. That's like uh you're shooting for 259 Fahrenheit, which is like like second ring 15 PSI. But in all honesty, you're always keeping it two degrees below because um it'll actually make the inside a little bit hotter, how it's working, at least mine does. I haven't calibrated it in a long time.
+
+[42:33] So you're rocking it right around there. So if you notice that you have to set your pressure cooker up to like 275, 260, 275 to get it to come up to pressure that you've gone that there is some reason it's too thick or there is something burning on the bottom of your pan that's stopping it from coming up to pressure quickly. Uh anyway, enough of that. Uh because that wasn't Dave's question. Um each pack was marinated overnight.
+
+[42:59] The bags were immersed in a large well-insulated bath, maintaining a temperature of 140 Fahrenheit for 72 hours. Up until this uh 24 hour point, all was well. Uh at about 41 hours, I noticed some puffing in one bag. Well, get this, it's even worse. Talk about uh uh I observed some puffing in one bag and more puffing in the other.
+
+[43:18] Man, it's like give me the give me the bad and then the worse. Um I checked all the temperatures, uh, the bath as well as the steamy air above the bath. Everything was at 140. So why the puffing? Um it's a good question.
+
+[43:31] So 60 is nowhere near, like a lot of the times you'll get puffing in bags that are uh, you know, down like more like 55, 56, 54, and the bags get close enough to each other or they're touching each other, such that there's a zone in there where the temperature is not high enough to kill bacteria fast enough. They make a little bit of gas, then that gas puffs up. Once it puffs up, you can't get good thermal contact into it, and sometimes those bags will then never get up to temperature. And you know, we have done ones where you open it and it smells like cheese. It's just like not okay.
+
+[44:09] The worst was um, we once did a thing and they set up a because we used to run like um confit, right? When we weren't allowed to use bags, we used to actually the old-style circulators, you could circulate fat. So we would get like big buckets of like lard or chicken fat or butter or whatever we had, sometimes just cheap fat, you know what I mean? And uh we would circulate the fat. And fat doesn't um move around very well, so you get very big temperature gradients in fat.
+
+[44:36] And also fat is not as good at um heat transfer as water is like not nearly as good. So it's very easy when you're trying to rock low temperatures to have large gradients and to really have a problem if there's not a lot of movement. So we threw a bunch of pork into this fat and came back in 24 hours later. The entire um amphitheater smelled like bad cheese. You remember that, Stas?
+
+[45:03] Oh my god. Oh my god, we threw it all away. There's that one second when you're like, maybe we can make it by this. Okay. Yes.
+
+[45:13] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Every cook knows what I'm talking about. You know what I mean? Yeah. There's that one second, you're like, I we can fix it.
+
+[45:21] We can fix it. And then, and then your reality snaps, you're like, no, nope. This is toast. Yeah, you know what I mean? Oh my god, that was the worst.
+
+[45:31] Uh, because we used to do fat all the time, uh, like fat holding in the restaurant, right? Because uh at the time, like they didn't want to have a hasset plan for the students because what a nightmare to have the students kind of doing a hasset plan, but they still wanted to do a lot of these low temp things. So, in order to have things not have to come out of bags, no matter how they were cooked, they would hot hold in oil with a circulator, and then you'd pull them hot hold out of the oil, do the serve all uh sear off, but they were only being held for like a couple of hours, and they'd already been cooked. Yeah. Anyway, still a good technique, but it paints so much oil.
+
+[46:05] And then you have to like, you know, technically after a while, all the water sinks to the bottom, and that stuff's not safe. Yeah. Right. So every day or so you have to like heat all get rid of the water and heat all the oil, right? Because you don't want to be incubating crap in the water that's sinking to the bottom of your uh of your oil bath.
+
+[46:26] Uh all right. So I don't know what caused that puffing, man, because 140, 60 Celsius is way above the temperature where most of that stuff is gonna happen. Uh all of the stuff like bones, um, stuff like you know, any residual air in your carrots, that would have happened in the first couple of hours as it was coming up to temperature, not after hour 21. You're definitely getting something growing in that. And so I don't know.
+
+[46:51] Um, some things that can happen is uh, and I don't know that anyone has fixed this recently, but um uh I had once someone come in the you know, the nighttime, like the porter, unplugged my circulators and like cleaned a bunch of stuff, right? Now they didn't plug it back in. So when I came in in the morning, I knew all my stuff was ruined, right? But I don't know whether maybe you had some sort of like human-caused power interruption, and then something could, you know, generate in there, cause gas, and then puff up. I don't know.
+
+[47:26] Uh I'd be curious to know how they smelled, although smell is not an indicator of safety at all. Smell is not an indicator of safety. In fact, that's one of the main dangers of uh vacuum bagging is that the stuff that causes spoilage inside of a vacuum bag often doesn't smell. So I don't know. That's uh maybe anyone sends me uh stuff, uh, you know, let me know.
+
+[47:49] I have a PAD oven set to 140 for making Garum, so temporarily I stuck the bags in there, but what should I do next? Chill and revacue, then observe for more puffing, throw it all out, boil it, heat it to 155. I think it's toast, man. I mean, uh, you know, hit up the bug counter and uh Ben Schaefer uh over, you know, on Risky or or not. Um and uh Ben Chapman and Don.
+
+[48:12] I'm getting all everyone's Garrett Richard. I'm getting I'm getting all my names freaking mixed up today. Monica's name, everyone's name. My brain's a little bit confused. But um, yeah.
+
+[48:22] So yeah, I wouldn't tr uh I wouldn't trust it. Once it puffs like 24 hours later, I don't understand. Unless the bags were compromised. But then you typically you'd also see a lot more liquid in it. Usually you'd see a lot more liquid if the bags were compromised.
+
+[48:38] But I don't know what's gonna grow at that temperature. It's not, but sounds unpleasant to me. Beefnog, licking the roto vap. Ari licking the roto vap to sense the presence of spiciness. Is there any non-human tasting way to measure the presence of spiciness?
+
+[48:52] Well, Nastasi thinks I'm a non-human way to taste it, spiciness, but I wasn't gonna do it because then I wouldn't be learning. But isn't John. What? Oh, I did a poll at my restaurant. Yeah, people don't agree, also.
+
+[49:04] They think you shouldn't lick the spiciness? No. Yeah. Well, you couldn't get away with it. Why?
+
+[49:09] Because you get in trouble. For what? We went over this last time. It's like the somebody who said it's like frat hazing. Why is it like frat hazing?
+
+[49:18] Because you're we've we did this last time. Yeah, but somehow make me understand it. I know. Well, I but we're not gonna understand each other. Well, no, but like in order to say, why is it like frat?
+
+[49:26] What is the similarity between frat hazing and this? So you don't understand it because you can't explain it to me. Like, what is the similarity? It'd be like having somebody eat a habanero. No, it would not be like that.
+
+[49:38] I know it's different. I would never make someone do that. No, I know, I know. But it it's there's still you just couldn't get away with that stuff now. That's just different.
+
+[49:46] Yeah, but like other what I'm hearing is just, oh sounds bad, robot sounds bad. What I'm not hearing is why it's like that other thing, which is bad. Yeah, like hazing, bad. Yeah. How is this like that?
+
+[50:00] Because if you're forcing you're making wait, they're cook. Yes. Okay. So they're cooking foods that are gonna be served to people. Yeah.
+
+[50:07] And tasting is part of being a cook, making sure that the stuff you're putting out tastes right. Yes. Okay. So we we agree on this. Yes.
+
+[50:14] So how is this like hazing? Because there's pain involved. No, I didn't say it's not if they've cleaned it so poorly that it's painful. Well, yeah. Then yes, I know.
+
+[50:24] There is that asterisk that they need to have cleaned it properly. Yeah. Yeah, right. So you clean it very thoroughly, and then you test it to see if there's residual spiciness. It's not painful.
+
+[50:33] It's just residual spiciness. Yeah. Yeah. So there's no degrees of residual spiciness. What?
+
+[50:39] There can be varying degrees of residual spiciness. And again, yes, this is like predicated on them cleaning it properly. And if they don't clean it properly, like it's on them, it's still spicy, but yeah, and and then everything is ruined for everybody. I under yes. So, how is this like hazing is where you make somebody do something embarrassing or messed up or painful just to make them feel bad.
+
+[50:59] This is I need a piece of equipment to not ruin everybody's time. And you are cleaning it and need to verify that it is clean. And so I don't understand how these two things are related. Because I'm don't they don't have to do it in public. They don't have to show me, they don't have their friend and laugh at it.
+
+[51:19] Yeah, you are. You're doing it with all of the whatever they're with whatever their classmates you have around. Yeah. Yeah. It's uh hazing is about public embarrassment.
+
+[51:27] No one's ever like, go home, tell me you did something, and then come back. You're hazed. That's not how it works. No, right. So these are unrelated.
+
+[51:35] You don't need to do it in front of me. You don't need to do anything. You need to test it with your tongue. The only piece of equipment you have that can detect whether you've cleaned it properly. Yeah.
+
+[51:44] And then clean it again. Not related. But this they're not cleaning this in the vacuum of their home, right? They're doing this in like the context of a class or of a school. It's in public.
+
+[51:53] They go wherever they want to test it. I don't watch them clean the whole thing the whole time. And like they're these are unrelated. They're unrelated. I this is one of those things that just bends me because like it's one of those things where sounds bad, is not bad.
+
+[52:09] So it's like like, and you know, I think like we have enough things in the world that are bad. Yeah, that to like think that things that aren't bad are the things that are bad pisses me off. Because that's it's freaking. Yeah, but that's it. Yeah, but that's how the world's working now.
+
+[52:23] Okay, well, yeah, you know, I don't think Nastasia and I inherently have problems with what you're doing. I would do it. I think Nastasia would too, but you couldn't make people do that now. You would get some kind of backlash. But based on what?
+
+[52:40] Based on it being what? Based on people not wanting to do things that they don't want to do or feel like you know they're being hazed. Okay. Feel like what'd you say? Force.
+
+[52:54] So you say what? Initiated by force. Wait, what? Unpleasantly initiated. Is this Jordana Rothman?
+
+[53:04] Wait, wait, so so what is so Jordana Rothman? Welcome to the show. What what is it that you said? I couldn't hear what I couldn't hear exactly what you said. What'd you say?
+
+[53:13] I said unpleasantly initiated. This is not an initiation. You don't have to. That's an unpleasant initiation. Your first experience with our team isn't where you get to use the most expensive piece of equipment we had.
+
+[53:28] These are all people who are trained, who are like members of the team and have been members of the team for a long time. This is not something you have to do to get into the team. This is something that happens when something goes wrong while we are making something with an incredibly expensive piece of equipment that's taking hours of work to make something that we're gonna serve to a bunch of people. So again, I don't see how they're related to the you have to prove that you're worthy of the using the most expensive piece of equipment. You have to prove you're worthy way before you clean the machine.
+
+[54:05] No. You don't have to lick it. You don't have to lick it. No. No, why not?
+
+[54:11] Well so how is it how are we gonna test it? How are we gonna see whether or not I mean, I do it when I when I make the mistake, I I do have to do all the liquid. I do. If I'm cleaning the machine, I lick it. No, that's so stupid.
+
+[54:24] I know you look it. I know, I love to lick it. But that's the stupidest thing. Uh I mean, in in the Pantheon of things I've heard you say, it doesn't make any sense. I want you to tell me in the reality why someone who is fully trained, if I'm telling them how to run the rotary evaporator, and if I make the mistake and I'm cleaning it, that's the only way for me to test.
+
+[54:45] And if I'm not the one making it or cleaning it, that's the only way for them to test. They're already in the club, Jordana. They're already part of the team. So why is it that it's actually it's not hazing? A brotherhood.
+
+[54:59] Uh actually, we had about half men and half women. Listen. First of all, I have a meeting. You're the one that came on. You're the one that came on.
+
+[55:12] Um I wanted to say hello. Hello. But I do think that as a leader, it's on you to be house liquor. Uh that is not that is not good training. That's clearly an important role.
+
+[55:28] Everyone saw me lick. Everyone saw me lick. Heavy is the head that licks the spindle. Everyone, everyone is. So what you're saying is, see, what I'm getting out of this is that I don't trust them enough to let them lick it.
+
+[55:43] I don't care about them enough as people or as cooks to train them to do a good job. What you're saying is is that I have to take all this. I in other words, I can't trust anyone to be a real human being or a decent cook or care about their guests enough to make sure that their product is good. And instead, I have to have all of the control myself, right? All of the control of everything is only on me and crap on those people who are working.
+
+[56:13] They are just peon idiots and can't be trusted to make a good product. Is that what you're saying? Because that's what it feels like to me. Because that is what you're doing when you're licking the roto vap is you're proving that you're making a good product for the people that you're making product for. That is honored.
+
+[56:27] That is being a cook. So to only do it myself means I don't respect them at all. That they are filth, that they are worthless, you know, just interns who have no worth to me at all. That's what that means to me. Fired.
+
+[56:40] Well, we can't fire people because they were also students. They were also students. So they were also our customers. But uh so you know what I'm saying? It's like love my time with you, Dave.
+
+[56:52] What I love my time with you. Yeah, me too. You gotta come back more often. You're all the way, you know, up there in Hudson. You're in Hudson, right?
+
+[57:01] I was in the area, but I will say that I've suffered a really intense injury from licking a roto vap. This is a lie. This is a lie. This is a people, this is a complete lie. This is a complete lie.
+
+[57:16] So spicy. It was so spicy that it it pulled a membrane off of my why do you do why'd you do such a bad job cleaning it the first time around? You forced me to do it, and you know what? I didn't clean it, you did. That is not this is all fabrications, which I appreciate them, though.
+
+[57:37] You know what, Jordana? Here's why I miss you because you can just say, and we won't go too far into it, a fabrication, a full on fabrication with a straight face. You know what I'm saying? Like that is a skill. That is definitely a skill.
+
+[57:50] Uh yeah. Yeah. So how's it going? I think you have to I'm gonna step in and receive this compliment, which I just heard and will receive it as a compliment because the other night Nastasia made me go to a bar that she claimed was a gay bar, and there's never been a gay person in there until I walked in. And um I was so bored that I had to tell a few of the assembled locals that I was a northeast distributor for wacky waving inflatable arm slowing tubes.
+
+[58:23] Oh my god. Um and I just love the joy and the cheer that it brings, and that's what it's all about. And live life. Live, laugh, love. All right, let me wave.
+
+[58:33] Let me let me let me ask you this. Let me ask you this, Jordana. So I mean, did you come up with that on the spot? Because that is like of all the things you could have picked, like that is amazing. And I'm sure the follow-up questions were fantastic, right?
+
+[58:51] First of all, this all checks out that Nastasia would say it's a gay bar. Let's check it out. It's all checks out. You know, but that is a genius thing. I have questions about those things.
+
+[59:00] I mean, even though like I know it's a lie, I might ask you about them, like how custom are they? How long does it take to get them? You know what I mean? Has your business really gone up? Because the C B D they're perfect for C BD shops for like the weed shops.
+
+[59:12] I mean, because they're kind of like, you know, she's gone, you know. Anyway, she's got it. Yeah, anyway, nice, nice try. Nice try, people. Nice try.
+
+[59:24] Uh, beef now. Oh, yeah. Uh oh, is there any non-human way to to measure the presence of spiceness? Uh, I know the Scoville scale scale for whole peppers, but presence of spicy, is there any way to measure bitter? Uh, you could measure the in in 20 in 15 to 20 years, we'll all be able to just uh shoot it with a um, you know, with uh uh an infrared, near infrared uh spectrometer, and um we'll know instantly what's in it.
+
+[59:44] You know, but that's 15 years away. Until that, all I have is my tongue. You know what I mean? And you know, crap on anyone who I I I uh uh I'm gonna die on that freaking hill. I'm gonna die on that freaking hill.
+
+[1:00:01] Uh Michael Vahabi, uh looking to make, oh, we're out of time. Looking to make all spice drams since it's impossible to find in Canada, hosting a little party on the 18th. Would love to serve navy grog from tropical standards. I do have access to allspice oil. They don't use the oil, they use uh, I mean, maybe they do commercially, but they just use allspice.
+
+[1:00:17] And I know that allspice generally has 2.5 milliliters of volid oil per 100 grams of allspice. Can I just use the allspice oil in place of steeping cracked allspice for two weeks? Let me know. If you're gonna do that, um uh you're gonna make it really strong. What I would recommend is get get you some gum arabic uh and use gum arabic uh as an emulsifier and then emulsify it in.
+
+[1:00:37] And it's not gonna be 100% stable, yeah. Uh, because you're making it that way. And there's other flavors from the allspice. So what I would do is I would uh maybe steep some allspice under some heat, and then you could try to emulsify some of that oil and let me know uh how it uh works. And uh Devin, I'll get next time to your question on wheat for flatbreads, but if you by flatbread you mean that you're making shapati or that kind of flatbread, let me know because it's very different.
+
+[1:01:03] That's a very different kind of flour, and we'll deal with it in I mean, next week's only a couple days away. It's Tuesday. So let us know. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, Newstand Studios. Joined as usual with John across from me. How you doing? Doing great, thanks.
+
+[0:21] Yeah? Yeah. Great. Got uh Joe Hazen rocking the panels. How you doing?
+
+[0:27] Doing, doing, doing. Eh, I'm doing. Got Nastasia the Hammer Lopez chilling up in Stanford, Connecticut. How you doing? Good.
+
+[0:36] Good. No uh no Jordana today. No. No. No, no, uh, no uh the uh chances of Rothman are low.
+
+[0:45] Zero percent chance of Rothman. Uh got uh Jackie Molecules over there uh in our uh Los Angeles office. How you doing? Which is your house? Maybe we have lost the molecules.
+
+[1:01] Or the molecules maybe on mute mute. Uh well, we were recapturing Jackie Molecules. Uh sorry to say Quinn uh is not uh gonna be joining us again today, but uh we are hopeful he will be back next Tuesday. Um well uh Joe is uh repatching the molecules. What do you what do you guys got for me this week?
+
+[1:25] What's uh what's new with the week? You ever see the Great Space Coaster? Did they rerun that when you guys were kids? No. No?
+
+[1:33] Nastasi. Yeah, you had the Great Space Coaster? Oh, yeah, of course, man. Freaking get on board! Space coaster.
+
+[1:39] Yeah, get on board. Yeah. What about you, Stas? Any any great space coaster in your life? No, we had Disneyland and Oxberry Farm and it's not a plate, it's a television show.
+
+[1:53] It's a television show. No, no. Oh no, there's there's Jackie Molecules. How are you doing? Yeah, Jack, did you?
+
+[1:58] Yeah, I got cut off there? Did you have the uh Great Space Coaster? No. Freaking get on board. I loved that show when I was a second.
+
+[2:06] You know what I mean? It was a little, I was a little old for it, but you know. It's just like it's one of those shows for kids that's like, you know, like puppets and like, you know, but it was kind of like a bootleg. Like a bootleg fragile rock slash bootleg Sesame Street. You know what I mean?
+
+[2:22] But what they had, what they had that was really you know who I you know the thing is Nastasia, right, has a connection to the electric company. I didn't like that show because I was jealous of those electric company kids. So the electric company was another bootleg Sesame Street, but they like they had all these kids who would like sing and dance all the time, and I was like, why do they get to be so special? Why are they on TV? Crap on them.
+
+[2:45] You know what I mean? Was it you that had the connection to Electric Company Stas? No, no, no. I don't know who that is. There was also in this is New York only, Channel 5, right?
+
+[2:55] Uh, you know, before it was Fox, it's just channel five, right? Uh, there was a show called Wonderama, and it was a dude like a he looked like a like a like a I don't know, like a 70s uh game show host, because that's probably what he wanted to be in his life, but instead he was doing this kid show with a chimp, and all the kids were like in this like real gross, like carpeted like pit. And I remember that very distinctly. But anyway, the Great Space Coaster had a character on it named Gary Ganu. Oh, yeah, yeah, Gary Freaking Ganoo.
+
+[3:25] And it's Gary Ganu, and his tagline was no good news is good good news with with Gary Ganu. With Gary Ganoo. No good news is good good news with Gary Ganoo. That was his thing. But his thing that he did every week was, this is Gary Gnew with the book of the week in review.
+
+[3:41] So we should, you know, have like like this is our book of the week in review. Long way to get to has anything happened this week. Wow. Yeah, yeah. Wow.
+
+[3:48] That was don't even don't even get me stuck. Well, you guys do know who the banana splits are though, right? You've seen the banana splits. Was that in syndication when you were a kids? No.
+
+[4:00] Jeez. No, not me. They redid the banana splits as a movie where it's like a horror movie, though. I didn't seen that though, because I don't want to ruin my my childhood. I mean, they are creepy.
+
+[4:11] They're the banana splits characters are some creepy dudes. They're like creepy, I remember that. Yeah. I remember that. They're like HR puffing stuff, kind of like stuffed, like like, you know, like uh fur like what what do you call people who dress in costumes all the time?
+
+[4:23] Fur furries? Furries? Furries. Furries, yeah. They're like, they're like that high out of their minds.
+
+[4:29] High out of their minds doing a kid's show. And they're also on a roller coaster from time to time, which is kind of funny. Uh so anything uh in their song. I'm not even gonna sing their song because it's gonna get in your head and that's gonna be it. Well, it's already in my head, so I'm hosting.
+
+[4:44] Oh, they're creepy looking. They're soups creepy. They're totally 100% creepy. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[4:50] The banana splits. No. Yeah. One banana, two banana. Anyway, uh, I'm not gonna.
+
+[4:55] Uh so what do you guys do this week? What do you got? I have no good food stuff, but I will say I calibrated my home theater and got really into 4K Blu-rays. That's my contribution. Nice too.
+
+[5:11] And it's uh it's a game changer, man. Any A V nerds out there, it's wow. Yeah. So are you a screen person or a projector person? Uh no, I have a screen, like a sixty-five inch.
+
+[5:23] All right. But how loud is how loud can you be in LA? See, in New York, we're all limited by how loud we can be. Like, can you be like ultra loud? Is your I was pretty that's pretty loud.
+
+[5:33] Yeah. I watched Dune last night and shaking the entire house. I have like the whole five, you know, five one surround thing. Which the uh Shamalama Ding Dong or the original one with sting in it uh and uh what's his name, Kyle McLaughlin? No, no, the the newer one.
+
+[5:49] Yeah, yeah. Uh I know we've said this before, but I cannot believe they're doing another Willy Wonka and that Chalamet is the young Willy Wonka, and they hired Hugh Grant to be the freaking oompa loompa. There's no good ideas here. There are no good car ideas in this situation. Like, I don't know what the hell it's like it's bad enough that they did the Johnny Depp version, which was a horror show.
+
+[6:18] You know what I mean? And then I mean, no offense to anyone that likes it, but no, it it's bad. It's a bad idea. It was a bad idea done poorly. And then there's a Tom and Jerry version, which is fundamentally j just the original Gene Wilder version, but with Tom and Jerry, right?
+
+[6:35] Also didn't need to happen, right? Did not need to happen. But this new thing that did not I mean, I don't know. I'm gonna have to see it just because I have to see any sort of Willy Wonka related pr uh, you know, production, but uh you know, and uh was it Nastasia who said or someone said they should have hired the guy from the bear because he already looks like Gene Wilder. But um, you know, this is supposed to be young, young Wonka.
+
+[7:04] Young Wonka. Like, that's something I need to see. Young Wonka. Anyway. Uh, so how do you have a how's how's your subwoofer, Jack?
+
+[7:15] It's good. Yeah. So back in the back in the 90s, late 90s, when I last time I was thinking about this when I was building my cabs and my amps and all that stuff, uh, there was a a person, I think they were out of Massachusetts. They weren't Bose related, or maybe they'd worked there at some point, but they used to make subs. You like this, uh, you like this, uh, Joe.
+
+[7:36] They used to make subs where instead of using a speaker cone, the dude literally just put a servo motor and an arm and was just like wap wop whop wop wop. So he wasn't using like a magnetic cone and a ring. And he was just like the low, just the super low end, and it was just this like strong motor, like you know what I mean, to really get that like so when a helicopter would fly overhead, you'd be like, ugh, you know what I mean? Like your chest would implode, which is sweet. Wow.
+
+[8:05] I could never afford one though. You know what I mean? But uh forget the name of his company, Servo, it was servo something was the name of his company. I don't think anyone does that anymore. I mean, speaker cones are probably so good now, you know what I mean?
+
+[8:18] Like subs are probably amazing now, you know. Anyway, yeah, we uh we digress. So like uh yeah, and whenever I listen to loud stuff in in New York, I can't wait for them to build like uh a subwoofer that you just strap to your chest. You know what I mean? So like, you know, you you have the cans over your ears, so you can have like the super loud with like great separation, even in your apartment where like, you know, if you drop a pin, the person underneath is like, are you moving furniture?
+
+[8:45] Are you moving furniture? You know what I mean? You know, you see the cans, but then you like strap something around your chest that like gives you that, you know what I mean? That feeling that you're like that you're that you might vibrate to death, which I kind of like in small amounts. Yeah.
+
+[9:01] Yeah. You know what I mean? Anyway, I don't know. Uh all right. Nice.
+
+[9:05] What about you, Stuz? You got anything? Anything? Um, I mean, people have come out from the city every day, but I haven't made anything interesting because I have to do like bulk crap, you know? Oh, yeah, I like bulk crap.
+
+[9:19] Speaking of uh not bulk crap, have you heard this thing I just heard on the when I was biking over here? Bittman's trying to do a nonprofit, two nonprofit community kitchens where it's pay what you like, high quality, uh high quality ingredients, uh, good menu and living wage for everyone based on New York prices, one in the Bronx and one in Lower Westchester. I'm just hearing about it, and I have no idea how that's gonna work. It's five, it's supposed to be it's it's gonna be a 501c3. What?
+
+[9:49] I said, yeah, good luck. Yeah. Ah Nastasi, just like zing. Yeah, good luck. So it's true, right?
+
+[9:59] Yeah, true. No, it's true. So since it's like still kind of summertime and you have a, you know, a uh waterfront uh situation and people keep on coming to avail themselves of it. Have you been keeping track of like the house guest Olympics? You're familiar with the house guest Olympics, right?
+
+[10:16] No. No, so the house guest Olympics, there's a number of uh categories in house guest Olympics. One is just how much of a pain in the butt they are when they're at your place, and then you rate all the different house guests based on how good or bad they are. So it's what people bring. Yeah, I mean, you have to do this.
+
+[10:32] You have to rate people, you'd be like, Well, I really like that person, but man, they came in last in the house guest Olympics, you know what I mean? So, like, what do they bring? Oh, yeah. Yeah. What what do they bring?
+
+[10:41] And uh how much of a freaking mess do they make and how much of a pain are they? So hook me up. What do you got? Without naming without it. I've I've split up kids, people with kids and like people that are single, which has helped a lot.
+
+[10:53] But it really shows the difference between the two. Because the people with kids, they start to bring cousins and nephews and stuff. So I had eight kids here on Monday? Wait, wait, wait. Wait, you invite let's say you invite me and and and Booker and Dax.
+
+[11:10] So all of a sudden now the cousins start showing up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Why? And then they bring they bring one bottle of wine and then one of them brought all of these hard seltzers that were left over from their parents' house, like the grandmother's house.
+
+[11:27] And nobody wants to drink, you know, because everyone wants the wine. And so the wine's gone by like four PM when they get there at two, and then we're stuck with hard hard seltzers. And I'm not gonna buy the wine too. No, you should not like you should not know. You shouldn't have to buy although you know what I do?
+
+[11:45] I always have a s like people always bring wine, and I never need to break into it, but I always have like just something I can spill into if they don't bring it. But you're I I understand why on principle you won't. You know what I mean? I get why on principle you won't do that, but I mean they could have a box, you know, but like it just feels because then they're gonna expect, well, there's four bottles, technically four bottles that she has, so why am I gonna bring anything, you know? Bring more kids.
+
+[12:12] Yeah. Yeah. Yo, Stas, thanks for the invite. Can I have like a plus 20? Here's a bottle of here's a bottle of yellowtail Merlot.
+
+[12:21] Thanks. You know what I mean? You can't even wash your counters with hard seltzer because it's got sugar in it. Like disgusting, too. Nobody drinks it.
+
+[12:29] It's now in the closet. I think whoever allowed like the words hard seltzer to be a legal label should go to jail. Or like some sort of like some sort of like punishment, like some sort of like it's not maybe illegal, but some sort of moral punishment. First of all, hey, folks, seltzer does not have sugar in it. I don't know if you know this.
+
+[12:51] But hard seltzer has sugar in it. Does it not? It's not unsweetened, right? It's like it's it's vod, it's like vod or vodka or malt beverage, right? Water, bubbles, sugar, and flavor, right?
+
+[13:01] It's basically a crappy highball. Am I wrong? I haven't ever, I've tasted one, but it's poisonous. But seltzer, if the word seltzer is in it, it should not have sugar in it. Like, period.
+
+[13:12] End of story. It should not have sugar in it, right? And uh, I don't know how like hard, right, in the sense of cider means that the sugar that was naturally there has fermented from sugar into alcohol and gone from being sweets. I mean, people from other countries don't even understand this. Like, what's a sweet cider?
+
+[13:28] What do you mean idiot? You mean juice? You mean juice? Anyway, so it goes from uh sweet to hard as it ferments, right? Right.
+
+[13:36] Uh yeah, I I don't understand. That's not what happened in this case. How does seltzer, which has no sugar, ferment into an alcoholic product? It can't. It it should just be called poison for kids.
+
+[13:47] It should be called poison poisonous alcoholic beverages for children, is what it should be called. Maybe. I guess adults drink a lot of them. Adults adults drink a lot, but I don't know. I don't.
+
+[13:57] I like the idea of a hard seltzer that's just like seltzer and vodka and nothing else, no flavor, no sweetener, nothing. Yeah. I mean, that at least would be like, you know, that's like they call that one hiding from the family. Um but like Yeah, and it's don't this is like one of those marketing things that I can't believe is allowed. You know what I mean?
+
+[14:26] Like anytime, I don't know, whatever. It's it's too much, too much to get into him. You know what? I don't want to crap on anyone's business, but speaking of weird marketing ploys, I was reading this morning, uh Subway is running uh it can't be true. Because Booker considered it.
+
+[14:41] Go ahead, tell him what it is. Yeah, tell him what it is. Well no, apparently 10,000 people have done it. Um if you change your name to Subway, you get free Subway sandwiches for the rest of your life. Legally.
+
+[14:52] It has to be on your license. Yeah. Right. Right. So here's the thing.
+
+[14:57] Like, how how do they force so I immediately Dax from camp texts us, and you know, you know, Jen and I texted to Booker, who, you know, get this. This is, I mean, I probably shouldn't talk, but he doesn't listen to the show, so it's fine, right? So Booker eats an unconscionable amount of tuna, right? And so, you know, we tell him about Jeremy Pivin, who, you know, went crazy from all the tuna he ate because the mercury poisoning, at least that's what he says. We all know that he was just kind of probably a lunar, you know, just probably doing bad things without the sushi.
+
+[15:25] But we're like, look, Mercury poisoning, this famous actor got mercury poisoning from eating all his tuna. He, I'm not talking like a can, I'm talking like four cans a day, like every day. We're like, Booker, you must stop. And he wouldn't believe us, actually. So he keeps asking Chat GPT, and now Chat GPT is like, you can't eat that much tuna, Booker.
+
+[15:43] And he's like, Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm like, all right. Yeah. Uh and Booker is, I tried to teach him the term hallucination for when G GPT is making mistakes. Cause it, and you know, he's like, no, it's just artificial error.
+
+[15:56] Artificial error. I'm like, strong, strong. Anyway. So immediately we text Booker this thing about Subway. And he goes, I don't trust it.
+
+[16:04] I think it's a scam. And that was it. You know what I mean? And I was kind of like, you know, I kind of believe it that it's a scam because aren't they all independently owned? Like, how do I force, like, you know, Jane and Joe, you know, Jamokes, Subway in, you know, Milford to freaking, you know, honor this, honor this thing.
+
+[16:23] And can he then go and just put himself into a Mercury coma by eating nothing but Subway tuna sandwiches? Because he would do that. You know what I mean? I've seen him eat two foot long Subway tuna sandwiches in a day. Yeah.
+
+[16:37] Yeah. Two Subway sandwiches, period, in a day is no good. Yeah. You know, uh, I told you guys, I think I said this on the air. He used to go around to he would troll subway.com, the web or wherever their website is, like whatever their website is, he would troll it all over the world to try to find some combination of inputs that would get him the most expensive possible Subway sandwich.
+
+[16:59] He's like, it's double meat, double bub. He would like list off like a thing. So he once made us a sandwich that was like a hundred dollars. You know what I mean? By like layering stuff in a way that was not intended.
+
+[17:09] And he also was able to get everything for free. He's like at the location. He would like name the location. This could be anywhere in the world. He once found one like over by the Staten Island Ferry.
+
+[17:18] And yeah, he's like, he would just go find all these weird deals on Subway all the time. But he could just have it free and then he wouldn't have to worry about it. Oh man, this is such a scam. And it's definitely true, but it's only going to one person who changes their name. Oh, that is garbage.
+
+[17:33] And it's $50,000 worth of gift cards. That is garbage. That is trash. And unlike the hairier thing where they like obviously Pepsi wasn't going to give that kid a hairier jet. Right.
+
+[17:49] You know, so for those who don't know, like, you know, back in the whatever it was 90s, I guess, like someone got an investor to buy a zillion, you know, Pepsi points, and then was like, you owe me a hairier jet because they put a commercial out. This seems like you changed your name. You did something. They said that. How fine is the fine print that says only one person gets it?
+
+[18:08] Like, in order to get your golden ticket, you have to freaking change your name to Subway legally? That's ridiculous. They'll pay you back for the legal fees, though. Is it say that? Yeah.
+
+[18:17] Stupid. We'll pay you back for the legal fees. And have they already chosen who it is, or is Booker still have a chance? I think he's still got a chance. And then once they give you the gift cards, can you change your name back to Booker?
+
+[18:29] I don't see why not. I don't see that fine print here, but maybe it's somewhere. Yeah. Give me Booker Arnold DBA Subway Arnold. Or do you change your last name to Subway?
+
+[18:39] Is he is he Booker Subway, or is it Subway Arnold? I don't know. Or is your name have to be Subway Subway? I don't see that in this press release. Subway, Subway S Subway the Third.
+
+[18:50] You know what I mean? Yeah. That'd be the best. Yeah. Well, you know, 50,000.
+
+[18:56] That's not even that many sandwiches for him. Oh. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, if you ate a Subway sandwich every day, right?
+
+[19:04] What are they? Six bucks? For a six-inch, I think. Oh, geez. So 10 bucks?
+
+[19:09] Maybe. All right. So probably 10. That's like 5,000 sandwiches. 10?
+
+[19:14] Yeah. So that's like four, four grand a year. That's like, you know, that's like, you know, 12 years. What is he only going to live 12 years? Kid's only 21.
+
+[19:24] Expect him to be, I guess if he eats that many Subway sandwiches, he might not live fast another week in 12 years, but like anyway. Uh yeah, that's true. Oh, speaking of things that are uh garbage ideas. Since you're the one right now with a uh restaurant currently, hook us up on the uh on the street shed situation uh with the city. What are they trying to do?
+
+[19:43] Make you take it down and you have to take it down every winter and then put it back up. You know what all restaurants have is lots of storage space. Did you know that? That restaurants have a lot of storage space. Not even just that, all the extra money required to put it up and take it down twice a year.
+
+[19:57] It's crazy. Is that real or is that theoretical still? No, I think that's real. So that's gonna happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[20:01] Oh man. They're letting you do it, but yeah. So, but so then are is the average person, do you have a shed? No, we don't. Yeah.
+
+[20:11] Oh, son of a gun, yeah. Uh I wonder what percentage for these New York City people, you know, write us in on our Patreon. What percentage of people do you think did actual follow the rules when they did their sheds? Like zero? Like zero?
+
+[20:26] Or is was there is there one person? We tried to follow the rules at XCON when we were open for that 25 seconds during the uh, you know, when they when they had that. But no one follows the rules. You're supposed to not have seating within X number of feet of like a a parking meter, uh, a bike rack, a uh fire plug. Uh there has to be like uh sidewalk egress around you for X amount of space, or the people who are allowed to build into the the lanes, it's just like no one followed any of those rules at all.
+
+[20:58] You know what I mean? Yeah. Uh yeah, whatever. They the rules should be changed to make it. It should just they should just codify it in a way that's normal.
+
+[21:06] But like, so are most people you think gonna like completely scrap it and build a fresh one, or are they renting storage spaces, you know, in Jersey or something? No way. They want you to like not ever put it back up again. So you're just gonna like throw it out and then be like, I'm not doing it next year. Yeah, but the money's what they want.
+
+[21:22] But you're not gonna keep that crappy wood. Well, like so that the two choices are build it from scratch every spring, or um either build it from scratch every spring or upgrade to something that you can knock down and put up. Like some people have like weird, they're basically in eating inside outside. You know what I mean? I mean, what are those folks gonna do?
+
+[21:44] Yeah. People who've you know fundamentally built greenhouses in the street, you know what I mean? I don't know. Yeah, so Stas, you think that they're just trying to like only the like when they did the Hasset plan where they're like, we're gonna make it so onerous that no one's gonna do sous vide anymore, and then everyone did sous vide anyway, and they were like, Oh, we didn't really intend this. Do you think that's what it is?
+
+[22:03] Yeah, it's tougher because you got no. I mean, we have this stupid vestibule thing that needed to be taken down, and we were like, well, crap, you know, like let's just throw it out and get a new one every year. But there was no never another year. Uh yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[22:23] Um, yeah, I mean, like uh, if anyone out there thinks that we as a society is pro-smus, think again. I found out the other day, um, one of Jeremy Umansky's posts, he was talking about the HACC plan for uh the larder down there. And he was, you know, he's I guess really into all the USDA regulations and all that stuff right now. Well he has to be because he he flies close to the sun. He's got some acorisms going on there.
+
+[22:52] Yeah. Um apparently it's all going really well for him, which is great, but in doing all that kind of like fine print reviewing, he found out that if you want to have something that is dehydrated and lasts more than seven days, you need a hassle plan for that. Oh God. Isn't that ridiculous? Shoot me.
+
+[23:08] If the water activity is below blob, and I'm not exactly sure where Blop is, but you know, I know it when I see it, kind of like pornography. I know it when I see it. You know what I mean? Uh that was the Supreme Court, not me. That's what the Supreme Court said, people.
+
+[23:20] Uh, but the Yeah, I mean, like, why like why make everything such a huge pain in the behind all the time? So that means, because people, for those of you that aren't like HACCP aware, HACC plan isn't just like good manufacturing. It means you have to have log books. You know what I mean? And you have to keep track of things.
+
+[23:40] So why did he tell anyone about that? That's one of those things that's like, why would you don't open your mouth? Yeah. Keep that to yourself, man. You know?
+
+[23:49] Yeah. I wish I erased my mind and didn't have that in my head right now. You know what I mean? Yeah. You have to do your HACC plan the way that like Republicans do their taxes, you know.
+
+[24:00] Wow. Wow. Wow. But they, you know, you know who like their accountants make a lot of money figuring out, you know, how to how to get around it. But like the the issue is like, um, it's just the records you have to keep with HACCP, which is just a pain in the butt.
+
+[24:13] Um isn't the application process expensive too? I don't know anymore. I mean, so many people have done it. I think that stuff's pretty streamlined. Um, you know, and there's a lot of people that have it, but you know, you got to keep the logs.
+
+[24:26] It's like it's like another thing, like you know, you keep your your um, you know, your shellfish tags and all that crap. You know, it's like another thing you have to keep. You know what I mean? It's just another layer of of uh useless garbage. Yeah.
+
+[24:38] So, like, you know, oh, is your dehydrated stuff still dehydrated? I don't know. I can't tell. Obviously, it's still dehydrated. You know what I mean?
+
+[24:47] Yeah. But what some idiots gotta look at a piece of paper and be like, yep, dehydrated. Can you imagine if like imagine if someone was like deh like like making like like I don't know, fruit leather, and you hand it them and they're like, hey, let me see the fruit leather. And then the you know, the the prep person came in and handed you jelly, you'd be like, that's jelly, you idiot. It's not dry.
+
+[25:09] You know what I mean? And you're in the like like how like why do you need a logbook for this? You know when your fruit leather isn't fruit leather. Anyway, yeah. You know, it's not like a it's not like an in-between.
+
+[25:22] It's no like wiggle room. You know what I mean? Yeah, I do. No, man. Nastasia and I were talking uh before about that.
+
+[25:30] Speaking of jelly about the the five-gallon bucket of mold jelly in Los Angeles years ago. I never saw it. I never saw the pictures of it. Oh, there were. There were something.
+
+[25:41] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, uh, we have kind of a question on that. Yeah.
+
+[25:46] Yeah. Uh and I don't know anything about it. So, you know, uh Okami writes in, related to some of the questions on a previous show. Have you ever tried making, and I'm sorry, I'm gonna butcher the uh Korean uh chong. I'm gonna call it chung.
+
+[26:01] C-H-E-O-N-G. Chung? Chung? Anyone? Anyone?
+
+[26:07] Uh Korean one-to-one macerated fruit syrup, right? So it's one-to-one sugar and syrup. But the kicker, uh, is there a quicker way to, so is there a quick way to get the same type of result? Because uh a lot of these uh syrups are aged then, right? So whereas if you were to take a fruit, you could put a one-to-one uh just sugar in with it, and over the course of several weeks, it would macerate and would turn into a thing.
+
+[26:29] But I uh I looked up, and by the way, oh uh I don't have an answer for you, Kami. Sorry. But uh I did look up uh an article which is quite interesting because what I don't understand is what is actually going on in the syrup as it ages, right? So in fruits, it's so in a regular one-to-one simple syrup, which you know, let's say you were gonna use just instead of fruit, water and sugar. Now, this is going to be slightly more sugar uh than that would be because there are solids in the fruit itself, right?
+
+[27:01] So it's not like one, it's not like a one-to-one simple syrup, it's higher. It's like probably closer to you know, 5760, um, depending on the fruit that you use, blah, blah, blah. Um, so in a normal one-to-one simple syrup, you'll get yeast and all kinds of effed up floaties, and it will ferment over time pretty quickly, and then the the amount of sugar in it will drop, right? Uh if it's still palatable for you to eat. You know how I know this?
+
+[27:25] Because I've tested it at home. Uh but uh these fruits uh syrups are typically high acid enough that you're not getting those kind of yeast things, but there are still, as they call quote unquote osmo tolerant yeasts and things that grow in them. Uh the article that I looked at was uh uh and I'm not gonna pronounce this anyway either, but like green uh green plums in Korean, M-A-E-S-I-L, green plums. So the green plum version of that, there's an article written on it called The Effects of Fruit Maturity. That's what you should search for because the title is too long for me to write down.
+
+[27:55] It was the effects of fruit maturity, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, mace uh syrups. Uh, and it's um not behind a paywall. So you can look and look it up. And what was most interesting to me was that uh even though they were fermenting for a long time and undergoing a lot of change, the bricks, right? The actual solids content of it didn't change that appreciably.
+
+[28:14] So they aged these up to a year. Even over the course of a year, they weren't seeing a lot uh a uh huge drop, in other words, a huge amount of consumption of sugar by microbes, but there was change in flavor due to microbes. And when that tells me is this is going to be difficult to fake by going slowly, because anything you do rapidly is going to be kind of a rapid conversion of uh sugar to whatever else, lactic acid, whatever whatever else. And there was a pH drop over time. So there's probably some lactic acid stuff going in there as well.
+
+[28:48] I I don't know. You have to read the paper in more depth. Um, but I think it's gonna be relatively difficult to get the same effect quickly because it's happening over such a long time with such a minimal amount of of um uh underlying consumption of the base product. That's all. But I'd be happy to be wrong.
+
+[29:05] You know what I mean? Uh and it actually seems to be a fermentation process and not just something that you could, let's say, accelerate with heat the way that black garlic is. Although that would be interesting. That would be super interesting to keep a fruit syrup at an elevated, like to put the to let's say bag, you know, yuzu or citron, slice it, right? Mix it with sugar, right?
+
+[29:28] Vacuum bag that sucker, and then uh throw it in and then treat it at uh uh relatively elevated temperature for a long time would be super interesting. One thing to note fructose, uh so acid and sugar, we talked about this a little bit last week. Acid and sugar, you'll invert. By the way, I built so stupid. I don't know why I did this.
+
+[29:49] Theoretically, it was for the book, but I built a a uh a really cheap polarimeter so I can now check to about I mean it reads to a tenth of a degree. I've printed it on my 3D printer, but you know, probably I'm getting like half a degree of resolution. So I can really check uh how much um light bends as it goes through solutions. And I'll give you, I'll give you guys, and like you can build it. If you already have a multimeter at your house and a 3D printer, you could build this for like six bucks, right?
+
+[30:16] I mean, like it's really cheap. But uh what I'm working on next, uh there's some things I make better, but I shouldn't make better because I don't have time to make it better. But one of the interesting facts I figured out was uh, and you could actually just do this with your computer monitor if you didn't care. So malic acid, I use a lot of malic acid, right? I use mainly citric malic, tartaric, and lactic.
+
+[30:35] Those are the acids that I use and succinic, the acids that I use in cocktail work. I guess in food you could use them too if you're correcting serums. But uh malic acid, um natural malic acid. So malic malic acid is a chiral molecule, meaning that it it exists as two mirror images, right? And as light passes through uh in one, it'll get rotated to the right.
+
+[30:58] And if it passes through the other one, it'll get rotated to the left. And in your body only, or in fruit, only one of those molecules is made. So if you take malic acid from a fruit and you pass light through it, it will bend light. If you take most malic acid that you buy in the store that's synthesized in a lab, the way it or synthesized, not in a lab, but synthesized malic acid, it both both like left-handed and right, both left turning and right turning ones are made kind of equally. It's called a racemic mixture.
+
+[31:29] And what that means is is that it doesn't bend light at all, right? Because it's an equal mix of those two molecules. Why is it important? It's important because that malic acid is more sour than the natural malic acid. So the malic acid that we've been using for years, you can buy the one that is biologically identical.
+
+[31:45] But most of us, and I checked the one that I have at home, and it is a racemic mixture of L and D, leveratory and dexterotary malic acid. And so it is more sour than regular malic acid, but it seems to match citrix because I've been doing it for years and years. Anyway, uh digression. Uh, what were we even talking about? Oh, polarimeter?
+
+[32:05] You can buy one. I don't know, whatever. You can make it real cheap. It's fun. Uh oh, sugar.
+
+[32:10] Sugar is gonna invert in your uh syrup uh relatively quickly. So if you're gonna make one of these syrups and try to like, it's not gonna be the same because it's not fermenting, but speed age, right? In other words, like do some sort of like temperature induced like breakdown products, which could be delicious, right? Be aware that it as it inverts, which will happen relatively quickly, fructose is going to brown and turn kind of caramel colored at a much faster rate than sucrose will. So if you put fructose in, you have to really watch your temperatures because the caramelization temperature of fructose is much lower than that of sucrose.
+
+[32:44] That's what I was gonna, or the browning temperature is much lower than that of uh sucrose. All right. Yeah. But uh encourage someone to try it because that sounds delicious. I might try it.
+
+[32:53] Just throw that sucker in the rice cooker and walk away. I told you the longest, I think the longest that the Zoji Rushi will uh tell you how long it's been in keep warm is a hundred hours. And I left rice in for over a hundred hours once to see what would happen. It was fine. It wasn't like, I wasn't like, oh man.
+
+[33:15] I, you know, I was kind of hoping I'd be like, this is delicious. And then you need like like a bunch of them so that you could always have your hundred hour rice around. You know what I mean? But I was like, this is not, this is nothing. It was like had a slightly amber color too.
+
+[33:33] That it, but it wasn't like, oh, I gotta do this. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, I've done a hundred hour race on accident before in a Zoji Rushi. Yeah.
+
+[33:43] What was your was your uh what's it called assessment the same? Meh. Fine. Same, yeah, same exact yeah, exactly. It was it was not surprising in either direction.
+
+[33:52] You're like, okay, yeah, this is what I would expect. I mean, it is freaking surprising that the Zoji Rushi is so good that it can keep rice for a hundred hours in all in in decent condition. That is freaking surprising. Yeah, that's true. That's true.
+
+[34:05] But yeah, not a uh not a culinary revelation. So anyway. Uh hey, John, you wanna take this uh opportunity to uh push the Patreon pump it, pump it? Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Get access to a whole bunch of great things.
+
+[34:21] You get to call in your questions live. You get your uh any questions you have prioritizing the answering with Dave. Um and I'll put the files up for the polarimeter uh when you know Quinn's back on in case any of you have a 3D printer and care about the way light is bent as it passes through through solutions. There you go, and super cool stuff being shared uh through the Patreon as well. Access to the Discord with a great community of like-minded individuals, and yeah, uh check it out.
+
+[34:44] Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Yeah, all right. Uh now, uh, we didn't finish this question last week. Devin Patel wrote in and said, uh, hey, uh, what is the uh best quality and flavor pre-ground wheat I can buy from a store online? It is for making f unleavened flatbreads.
+
+[35:03] I'm searching for the highest quality and bless best flavor. Thank you. Okay. So uh a couple a couple of things. I didn't uh I asked for some uh more information.
+
+[35:12] I did not receive any more information, so I'm just gonna make some assumptions and and oh, and by the way, uh Devin also said uh don't get the the DI fluid uh machine, the Omni, the one that does particle roast and uh Agtron. Yeah, well, I'm not gonna buy it for coffee because I don't need it for that. But I would love it. And I I sent them an email and I sent them a uh uh you know on their Instagram. I want to know if it if they're ever gonna modify that sucker so that I can have it do flour, because then it would be worth it for 100%.
+
+[35:42] Um anyway, uh also Devin wants to know if I can juice uh um galangle in the uh in the covings. I don't know. I would bet galangle's a lot drier than uh than uh regular ginger. I like galangle. Yeah.
+
+[36:01] And but in relatively small, like not as like I like it, I like it as much as ginger as a flavor idea, but not in the quantities that I like ginger. So, like in recipes, I have recipes that use like all of like all of the normal ones. You can't get uh whatever the name is, I forget sand ginger, whatever the stuff that's in um that's in the uh salt chicken spice rub mix anyway. Uh that one I can't get fresh, but you know, uh the regular ginger turmeric and um and galongle. Remember that syrup we used to make, Stas was so good, right?
+
+[36:36] Yeah, yeah. No, no, with all three, but I am just not gonna juice turmeric. I'm just not gonna do it. You know what I mean? Just not yeah, not worth it.
+
+[36:47] Not, yeah. Just not. No, it could be the most delicious thing on earth. I'm just not gonna do it. Hey, speaking of the other things, remember how I told you that um uh at the bar back at Booker and Dax days, like they would not allow me to put a stinging nettle drink on the menu, like nitrile muddle stinging nettle.
+
+[37:03] So when you when you nitrom stinging nettle, it uh it it the little barbs are broken down, they're broken. And so then we even without cooking it, you can consume it, no problem. And they're like, Nope, no, nope. And I was like, but nope, no, no. Wouldn't it be fun?
+
+[37:22] But I I like we should talk about how we might be doing an event, several events in LA. Yeah. Well, so like uh I might get excited, get ready. Uh yeah, we might be hooking something up. Uh yeah, uh at uh, you know, uh in um in LA.
+
+[37:43] Two things. One uh we might try to do something separately. I might film something over there with uh with Dave Chang if we can get the scheduling everything worked out for one of his new things, but then we might do something uh separate. You know, Nastasia loves an LA event, and it will not be a sub party. And it will not be like when uh poll cat when uh Aaron Polski had uh Nastasia and I fly out to uh do an event at Harvard and Stone and had us prep for three drinks, not three cocktails, three c not three recipes, three drinks.
+
+[38:16] And like uh that's when Stas, that's when you and I were like, what the hell? And then we had to run to Ralph's. Oh my god. Like we're gonna do it. But then he took us that to that weird uh trip bar, chip club.
+
+[38:29] Yeah, yeah. Where it's like, you know, it's just not my that's not my like I know it's like was high class pole dancing situation or whatever. High class, but like just not my c not my thing. I like to like keep my, you know, lascivious thoughts and my drinking separate. You know what I mean?
+
+[38:44] Anyway. Uh so this one we will prep at least nine drinks, not three. It was what was the actual number of those stocks? It was something absurdly low, like thirty of thirty of each or something like that, right? I think even lower.
+
+[39:06] I think it was like twenty of each, and then we had the apple heads, nobody cared. Oh, they cared. Yeah. They some people care. Oh, I mean, Harvard and Stone didn't care.
+
+[39:15] Some people who showed up cared about the apple head dolls and the boots with the fur. But uh and you know, Nastasia just learned recently that Vincent Price, I knew this because my grandpa knew tangentially knew Vincent Price. I can't imagine them being friends. But uh Vincent Price, you know, good cook has a cookbook. We should get the Vincent Price cookbook.
+
+[39:36] And if you're gonna do a I'm gonna cook one like every recipe in a book, why not the Vincent Price cookbook, right? 'Cause like what does it matter what? You know we should do we should rent Vincent Price's old house in the Hollywood Hills and make a dinner of Vincent Price's recipes. And it's and it's and like every five seconds it's just the laugh from thriller over and over and the wax houses playing in the background. Yeah.
+
+[40:01] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Vincent Price was an amazing, had an amazing look and sound to him, right? I mean, just like awesome. Yeah.
+
+[40:11] Yeah. I wonder whether he was a good dude. I have no idea. Who cares? But we have to then get the apple head, uh, the shrunken head Vincent Price uh box, right?
+
+[40:19] Didn't I buy you one of those or did we almost buy one of those? Daggy No, we have one. I think it's at my parents' house. Yeah. Sweet.
+
+[40:27] Now you have to go find a real light bulb. You have to go on eBay and buy a light bulb for it because no one makes real, you know, incandescent light bulbs anymore. Back to Devin's question of uh whole wheat. So there are a number of uh there are a number of different factors, right? So um I make all my whole own whole wheat, so I haven't actually bought any whole wheat that I think for flat flatbreads that I think is awesome.
+
+[40:52] And every whole wheat flour that I have bought that's commercial, um, other than the ones I'm about to tell you, are relatively meh. You know what I mean? Like, in fact, most of them, even from high quality people, I dislike. Like, you know what I mean? Like I just don't like them.
+
+[41:07] Uh I haven't tested them on flatbreads, but I don't like them. Um also the question is like, how flat? Like, are we talking like tortilla chipati flat? Are we talking, are you considering non and pita to be flatbreads, right? Because they're different, right?
+
+[41:25] But like what do you you guys consider pita flatbread? Yeah. I mean, I think flat-ish. Yeah. I wish we lived in a country where the pita game was so strong.
+
+[41:38] You know what I mean? Yeah. I was just I forget who I was with. I was with someone who had just flown back from uh Tel Aviv, Elon Hall. And uh, and uh he was like, I was like, yo, I've never been to Israel, right?
+
+[41:52] So I was like, oh man, is the pita game just like so good there? He's like, the average idiot makes a pita that's better than the best pita you can buy here. And I was like, that checks out. I'm almost so angry. You know what I mean?
+
+[42:04] Uh I was like so bent because uh anyway. So back to this question. So the reason I don't like most whole wheat flowers is uh they taste bad. You know what I mean? I think that's the thing I don't like about them is the fact that they taste bad.
+
+[42:14] And I have my theories about why are like too long to get into here. I have not yet tried ordering like super fancy stuff from like uh Anson Mills. And if you're looking to make flour tortillas, I would try the the Hayden Mills makes a uh a blend that I've had decent luck with with uh tortillas. It's a mixture of their Sonora, because like Sonoran uh white is fantastic for flour tortillas, but I believe theirs is a mix of mostly Sonoran white with something else uh ground and it might be light, like lightly sifted. The issue with flatbreads is and let's so something like a pita or a naan has relatively similar needs from a bread perspective as bread.
+
+[43:02] Okay. Things like tortillas and chapatis, so like that category has an entirely different set of needs, right? So those need to be so naan and uh pita can handle like a normal bread dough, and you're just making them flat and and and working with. Whereas like tortillas and chapati need to be high hydrate, very finely ground so that they uh aren't like kind of glued together. They need to be very high hydration so that they can puff up when you cook them and flip them.
+
+[43:36] And at the same time, they need to be easily uh rolled or machined or handled into very thin uh layer, thin discs. So that combination of needing to roll it out thin, but it needing to be very wet. So you can't make it like pasta, which has a very low hydration, needs to have a higher high hydration, like 70, 78, like 76, 78% for a lot of these things, hydration, right? So in order to get that, you need a very different kind of flour than you would for normal bread. If you want to use whole wheat for a normal bread, I would buy, I don't know who to buy because I don't buy and make my own, but uh uh high extraction flour is gonna be the best because they're gonna sift out a lot of the largest brand particles.
+
+[44:18] It's still got like 85, 90% of the wheat is in there, a lot of great taste, and it's gonna act like normal bread, right? For uh if you're gonna do like the only good whole wheat I bought is the uh is the stuff for chipotties for that kind of flour. And you need to look for um um it's it's made in a different way. So most like uh western style milling is done to kind of decrease the amount of heat. Everyone's worried about heat damage on stuff, and so they grind as fine as they can on roller mills, but they try to keep the heat production down.
+
+[44:54] If you look at like traditional atta flour, whole wheat uh flour for chapatis, uh done on like a chalky on a on a mill, the these are ground at very, very high, at very high temperatures, very fine, uh, with a lot of starch damage. And what that means is you have a very fine flour, high starch damage, high heat. They absorb a lot of uh water, right? So they have a they take a lot of water on. And so that flour is like the best for making that you can buy for making uh a chipati.
+
+[45:27] So uh if you're gonna do uh and I've also done them, I've also used them for, you know, tortilla-like things that aren't like chipati, but you know, I'm talking like you can still roll it out very easily, even at 76% hydration, right? So like the stuff's crazy, and it absorbs that much water because of the starch damage, because it's whole wheat, because it's ground finely, and because it has the right amount of protein and the right kind of gluten to do that kind of work. Now, of the, I've only tried like four or five brands, uh, and I've never ordered it online to try to get super high quality. Uh, but the best that I have tried uh was uh Sujata's brand. Like I liked it a lot better than like SWAT or any of the other uh, you know, I think the other Lakshmi or any of those.
+
+[46:12] Um you can buy them now in vacuum-packed bags, and the nice thing about that is they won't go rancid as quickly. So if you can get like the um Sujata Chaki Atta uh in a vacuum bag, I've had decent luck with it, but I'm not gonna say it's the best, and it's not, you know, artisanal if that's what you're looking for. The covered smothered, good. All right. Uh more bread stuff.
+
+[46:34] Alexander um camarata writes in, yo, uh, this is Xander writing in from Berlin. Might get to go to Berlin in October. Might go to the uh Bar Convent uh Berlin. Although I hear it's now in Old West, not in Old East. It used to always be in Old East.
+
+[46:48] I'm gonna go to Old East. You know what I really am looking forward to again? And next time I go to Berlin? Schweinhox. Oh my god, I love Schweinhox.
+
+[46:56] You take the like the pork, the pork shank, and then you like braze the hell out of it, and then you deep fry it so it's like gooey inside and like crispy on the outside. Yeah. Oh my god, Schweinhox. Oh my god, pork. Do you know that?
+
+[47:10] Like uh remember Stas when we went to uh Milwaukee and they had uh those things they called pork wings that were like miniature, like Schweinhoxa. Oh my God. How good were those? So good. So good.
+
+[47:22] Those are those are what's it called? Trademarked. You can't we can't make something and call it a pork wing. That thing's been trademarked. But those things, if you can get them at like a they don't have them at bars over here.
+
+[47:31] I've never seen them on, I've never seen them on an East Coast menu. But uh if you could get yourself uh the that's basically like mini Schweinhawks, which is like sweet. And I think they're pre-cooked, and I think you could probably drop them from frozen in the fryer. And is there anything better in life than just being able to drop something from frozen in the fryer and pull it out and eat it? I don't think so.
+
+[47:50] I don't think there's anything better than that. I mean, maybe there is. Um so uh calling a writing from Berlin, not very important question, uh, but I heard y'all uh are taking more questions. So here's a go. My friends and I were discussing why in the United States most bread you buy, even quote unquote healthy bread is so soft.
+
+[48:06] Uh Xander, you know I don't believe in health. I do not believe in health. But many people do. I would say almost everybody does, just not me. But let's just take your question, stipulated, healthy.
+
+[48:18] Um example might be uh Dave's killerbread.com. You guys uh familiar with Dave's killer bread? Dax likes Dave's killer's bread. Kind of a good story. They uh the the people who started Dave uh Dave's killer bread, one of them, you know, had been in uh prison for like 15 years, came out, and then his, you know, went to, I guess had a family bakery business and went back with his brother and started it, and they're uh a second chance employer.
+
+[48:42] So like they they do a lot of hiring of people, uh, you know, and they don't, you know, take your criminal uh record into account. Which I have more people should be doing this kind of thing. Um so uh I'll say that about Dave's killer bread. It's but my family does eat it. I don't because I don't eat that kind of sandwich bread typically.
+
+[49:02] But point taken, um, why is uh why is it so soft? Uh if you buy full corn broat in Germany where we live, it's extremely dense. Or if you buy a rye bread in Denmark, it will look nothing like the rye bread from Dave's killer bread or even rye bread that you get at any deli. Uh, what can explain these differences? Well, briefly, they're entirely different things.
+
+[49:20] Uh rye bread in the United States, the kind that you're talking about. In fact, I looked at Dave's killer uh breads, rye breads. Most people, when they say rye bread here, there's some rye in it. There is rye in it, but it's not a hundred percent rye. And I looked at their their rye bread has rye flour and wheat flour and like whatever like pile of seeds that they pre-soak and throw into it, that's their shtick and wheat gluten and all of this to try to make it into kind of uh, you know, a bread that is what the Americans consider bread.
+
+[49:50] Whereas full cone for you know, full corn broat uh usually has like whole clack cracked things. It's just it's an entirely different, it's an entirely different process, right? So these guys are using what amounts to standard flour, not standard, like could be whole wheat, but like ground like normal flour and the with the intent to make a uh a big springy loaf, as opposed to, you know, like the situation where you know how they used to say you throw in three kernels and you get and you uh you throw in two kernels and you get three out. Like that's the full corn uh uh, you know, grind, you know what I mean? Uh so they're just entirely aiming at entirely different things.
+
+[50:29] Is that I mean like I'd have to go for hours and hours, otherwise to go kind of deeper into it. And I don't make a lot of full corn broat, by the way. Um, but they're just designed to be um designed to be a lot denser, especially the ones that are 100% rye, uh, or the ones that are ironcorn, they just don't have the gluten structure to make the big kind of breads that we make. And so because if you're gonna use eincorn or if you're gonna use uh uh rye, 100% rye, it's going to be dense. And it's going to, you know, they ferment it for a long time, so it's more sour.
+
+[50:59] We got a call? Call or you're on the air. Hey, yeah, yeah. Quinn, how you doing? Good to hear from you.
+
+[51:07] Uh, you know, I thought I'd just check in, make sure everything's going okay. Yeah. Well, good, good to good uh good to hear you. Glad you could uh call in. Yeah.
+
+[51:18] Been uh deep. Oh, yeah. Go ahead. Promote it, Quinn. Promote, do the promotion.
+
+[51:26] Uh again, the patron will already have seen this over all of the other podcast listeners. Tinyearl.com slash B D X survey. Wait, it's pronounced Earl. People pronounce it Earl like I do. Earl, like the show.
+
+[51:46] Yeah. All right. Earl. Tiny URL. No, no, no.
+
+[51:51] No. I I I 100%. I'm like, it's probably I'm wrong. Like, because I don't know anything. You know, for years I called the hashtag symbol still pound.
+
+[52:02] You know what I mean? Because that's what it is to me. It's a hashtag. Hash. So yeah, Earl.
+
+[52:10] Should I say what do you say, Stas? Do you say URL or Earl? URL. Uh. So that's the dividing line.
+
+[52:18] Like uh somewhere between I'm a URL guy. Your URL. So somewhere between you folks and Quinn and John is the is the Earl line, is the Earl demarcation. Most other people I know are URL. Really?
+
+[52:32] Yeah. I kinda I I don't mind Earl. I don't mind it. Earl's cool. I like it.
+
+[52:37] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, yeah. Uh uh, I'm for it. All right.
+
+[52:41] So why don't you tell them what the survey is for, Quinn? Why they should care, why they should take it. About uh getting feedback from the player chap, making improvements, and also cooking habits and hardware related questions for current deck. Yeah. Uh do we uh have any uh speaking of podcasts, do we have any uh guests who are in the pipeline that haven't been fully hammered down yet, Quinn?
+
+[53:09] I mean, Chris Young is in the pipeline. Yeah, but I think we're converting it. Yeah, then we can release all the all the creamy, all the creamy hounds on the creamy inf uh the creamy information, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[53:23] Yeah. All right. All right. Uh all right. So are you are you sticking around, Quinn, or do you have to pop back off?
+
+[53:34] All right. I guess I guess he popped are there? Yeah, he's still there. So uh that was Tiny Earl. What was it?
+
+[53:40] What did he say? It was like I say it, say it uh say it again. The the the survey website. Is anyone remember? Tinyearl.com slash bdx survey there.
+
+[53:51] Quinn, what's the URL? Uh the Earl again? What is it? Give it to him one more time.com slash BDX survey. Tiny Earl.com forward slash BDX survey.
+
+[54:08] BDX survey. BDX survey. UR Cool. Oh, yeah, it's no URCool, which you know what I think about that. By the way, you can still uh still uh pre-order that stuff.
+
+[54:21] Still pre-order, still going. Yeah. We're excited. What'd you say, Sus? Oh, uh yeah.
+
+[54:31] So uh the pre-order site is is uh your cool what is it stuff you are cool forward slash you are cool.com forward slash spins all or some crap what is it I don't know geez Louise we're the worst people on earth just go to modernistpantry.com and the link to it or go to Bookerandax.com and the link to it why are we so terrible at this uh Ron Ford writes in does anyone have any recommendations wait Quinn before uh before you go uh I know that you've been uh you know super uh preoccupied over the past couple of weeks but any any good cooking information that you have any uh anything you've tried out you always have some interesting craziness that you've tried oh yeah I'm before all the craziness I did a yakatory dinner it turned out pretty good yeah yeah in you did inside do you have one of those indoor yakatori things that like is like with the enchanton in the backyard oh yeah yeah but were were like what was your was your method like hotter than surface of the sun kind of a situation like super fast or like you know more standard cold a lot of record yeah yeah yeah we need to do the uh we never built it we were gonna do the uh Sears all like the upside down Sears all like yakatori death bucket thing where it's just like you know what I mean like infinity infini flame you know what I mean yeah but never did it no you know, and we probably won't. So I was gonna say where there's life, there's hope. But nope no hope. No hope. Uh and uh what what was your favorite thing on the Yaquitori?
+
+[56:09] Did you do the uh uh please tell me you didn't do the uh uh undercooked uh chicken situation? Nastasi and I had that when we were like, meh, right? Wasn't worth it, right? Stas. It wasn't like I need that undercooked chicken again, right?
+
+[56:23] It was pretty good. You you would have ordered that again? I would have ordered almost any of the other things we had at that restaurant again first. I mean, I didn't hate it. I I liked it, but I wasn't like, oh my god, why don't we have this in the U.S.?
+
+[56:35] You know what I mean? Compared to the other stuff we had there. That's all I'm saying. Sometimes I think about it. I stand uh I stand uh uh, you know, it's it's uh, you know, what is it?
+
+[56:49] What is the f the Latin phrase? What is disgusting is not in dispute. It's not, it's the they they go stibest on us disputada. Yeah, which I which I have. You can't dispute what's disgusting, because it just is.
+
+[57:00] It's the exact opposite of the meaning. Exact opposite. Uh Ryan Ford writes in Does anyone have any recommendation uh on how to cure olives? Uh my trees are going crazy this year, and my attempt to salt cure them last year ended up moldy. Any good resources or books on bless you.
+
+[57:16] Any good resources or books on the topic? And has anyone tried to press their own olive oil? Okay, so I think here's the issue, right? So, Ryan, uh Nastasi and I had business dealings once with someone who uh their whole McGillo was uh they were Israeli, uh, or we didn't actually, we almost had business dealings with them, and they did a olive home olive press situation. Remember that, Stas?
+
+[57:40] No. It was one of the our people that we were dealing with, they were gonna bring them in for investing, and that their whole money thing was the home olive press. Anyway, uh Nastasia has repressed this memory, which is probably smart. Um, I only ever tried to press olives one time in my life in 1994. I tried pressing olives because my future at the time in-laws had a single olive tree in Litchfield Park, Arizona, and uh it was a nightmare.
+
+[58:08] It sucked. Uh, I did salt cure those olives and they were good. But the short answer to your question is I don't have any information or books because I haven't had access to an olive tree in like 25 years, 30 years. Um, but I think we should have oil can Coleman Bansuri King come back on and do a little research because the presses I did look at uh all have problems, and he's gonna he can talk more than any of us about like why exactly how much you extract out of an olive and how you extract out of olive is gonna affect the taste of the oil, right, Stas? We should do it when we're all in LA, yeah.
+
+[58:42] All right. Come on live. Justin writes in. I remember Dave mentioning using a rotavap to distill the way tomato leaves smell. I'm not gonna have a roto vap anytime soon.
+
+[58:50] Is there a different way to get that aroma or taste out of the leaves? Everything I've Googled so far is not for food. I don't have any way to get the aroma out of it uh other than distillation, but I will think on your problem. Uh I will think on your problem, Justin. And in the 57 seconds we have left, um, did I talk about the uh sugar experiment we did in at Kampari last week?
+
+[59:13] Where did I talk about it? I'll say it again briefly. So at Tales of the Cocktail, we did a uh test of daiquiries where we tested um 10 grams of sugar versus the equivalent amount of simple syrup, which is a little more than half of an ounce, and three quarters of an ounce of lime, two ounces of rum, sugar versus regular simple syrup, and two thirds of uh bartenders tested preferred sugar, and it pissed me off because I don't want to use sugar at the bar. I then did that same thing in UK, same recipe, and again, sugar one. Here's the thing, right?
+
+[59:43] Sugar one over simple syrup and rich simple syrup with at the same amount of sugar. But then we ran a second test. Ready for it, people, where we did 20 mil 20 uh milliliters, which is a flat two-thirds of uh simple syrup instead of the the half, and the equivalent amount of sugar, which is 12.3 grams, not 10 grams, and then simple syrup won by the same margin, two-thirds. So in a s in a super dry daiquiri, sugar wins, and in what I will consider you know, the daiquiri that I'm more used to making, right, with 12.3 grams of sugar per 60 ounces and two three quarters of lime juice. That sucker, simple syrup one handily, so sweet cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Aron, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, and New Stance Studios. Not joined with uh John. John's not here today, feeling a little under the weather. Uh as is uh Quinn.
+
+[0:24] Quinn's still uh, you know, still getting better. So, you know, we'll look for them next week. But meanwhile, here rocking the panels, we got Joe Hazen. How you doing? I'm doing great, man.
+
+[0:34] Yeah. This is the first time I might be on camera. Yeah. Flipping over, kind of watching myself. Yeah, how you doing?
+
+[0:39] Doing okay. Yeah, I think so. Getting ready uh right after the show. I'm taking uh Dax up to college. That's it.
+
+[0:45] Then we, you know, we're not really an empty Nestro because Booker still lives with us, but you know what I mean. That's what they call us, right? Yeah, once you do that, it's like you know, you've already rolled the dice and now you just gotta see where they land, you know. I'll be there soon. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[0:58] Yeah, yeah. Sooner sooner than you think, my man. Sooner than you think. Uh in the great state, small state, best state, Connecticut, we have Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing?
+
+[1:08] I'm okay. Yeah. Hey, uh, like you're a little garbly, but uh in like a month or something, we're gonna do some uh bull crap in LA, right? Yeah. So yes, you can do it.
+
+[1:23] What? You will do it. Okay. Anyway, so like like the odds are, I mean, assuming we're gonna, you know, we're gonna get the tickets and everything uh soon, we'll announce it ahead of time. But if you are gonna be in the Los Angeles area in the latter part of September, right around the last time that you have uh, you know, to order uh pre-order a uh Spinsall uh generation two hashtag you are cool for what is it?
+
+[1:49] What is it? You you are cool. What is it? URCool.com forward slash spinzall or something like what is it? Anyway, I don't know.
+
+[1:57] Uh but if you put I don't know I don't know but I know this you better pre-order that sucker if you want one because we are not gonna be able to build any extra ones so it's gonna be another wait if you don't do the pre-order but anyway right before that Nastasi and I are gonna go to Los Angeles we're hoping that Jack's not doing one of his Mexico slash freaking uh uh DC trips at that time oh by the way we also have Jackie Molecules in in free in Los Angeles right now how you doing no I'm I'm in DC oh jeez Louise well we're not in Los Angeles now we know I remember when you used to work for the Voldemort network when we first started this show and uh you you're like I'm gonna move to DC and I'm like you know why man why and then like you know you keep going back you love the DC you love it I mean you know I'm on contract with them so it's work. All right okay but I I have love for DC. I'll put it that way I have a lot of love for DC. All right all right uh anyway so yeah Nastasi and I are gonna go out there and we're gonna do an event and you know this is now take this like you take the weather but what do you say there is you say there's like a 50% chance of McGee Stas? No I think like 90%.
+
+[3:18] 90% chance of McGee yeah so like you know if you're gonna wear your McGee raincoat 90% chance of McGee at this event. So we're just putting it out there and it will be right around your last opportunity to uh get your order in for this Benzall. Generation two. Uh anything else I got a push about that, Stas? No.
+
+[3:40] I don't think so. Yeah, since uh since John's not here, uh I got up it says right on this piece of paper. I the way this works, folks, is that you send in questions. By the way, if you're listening live on the uh on the Patreon, call your questions to 917 410 1507. That's 917 410 1507.
+
+[3:58] But I have a uh at the top of the piece of paper that I have every week, it says in purple, I don't know why, but purple, always purple. Promote the Patreon membership. So that's what I'm doing. Go to patreon.com forward slash cooking issues. I also just got a message from uh Yeah.
+
+[4:13] Quickly, I just got a message from Quinn with the URL for spinzall. Oh, what is it? And it is UR, like the letter U, the letter R dot cool slash spinzall. You're dot cool slash spinzall. Yeah, you're not cool, your dots cool.
+
+[4:31] You're dot cool. Yeah. Do you know what I was told? Like my email address has a period in it, and I was told that actually all the computers ignore the period, and that if you just type my email address without the period that it'll work, but yet I still give the period because I don't trust it, even though I tested it and it works. How dumb am I?
+
+[4:50] We should send Well Wishes out to Quinn. Yeah. For uh, you know, for not being up speed today. Yeah, so he he is he is listening. He is I I know John is probably not listening.
+
+[5:00] He's on the Discord. What's up, Quinn? Queenie Quinn. It's on the Discord. John's probably not John not listening.
+
+[5:05] Anyway, uh so uh before we were on the air, we were talking uh reverb, and Joe Hazen was telling me that there are rooms that you can like rent, right? Explain it. So you have like Yeah, so there's the reverb they're called reverb chambers. Um I mean there's there's here there's some here in New York. There's obviously out in California in the Capitol Records building in the basement where the reverb chambers are, where the actual in the studios use the reverb changers that are in the basement to call reverb when the musician wants a particular reverb, but it's also available to any person in the United States.
+
+[5:45] It has an ISD in line, it's which are you know quite expensive. Um the basically they're like latency-free phone lines, um, but they're very expensive services to have, and mostly studios have them. And if you want to use the reverb chambers over in Capitol World Records, you you know, you dial in or you whatever you pay for the service and you get that reverb called back on your console. It's pretty amazing. But there are here in New York, I believe it's upstate in the old mushroom uh caves.
+
+[6:14] What did the what are the mushroom caves? What are the mushrooms? Is it Del Monte or I don't know? Well well, most of the mushrooms are grown in in uh Pennsylvania, like West Kenneth. And what's a what's what's the big mushroom farm name?
+
+[6:27] Oh, I don't know. I don't know the big player. Again, most of the big mushroom players nowadays are in Pennsylvania. 75% of our mushrooms come from Pennsylvania. Well, these are the old caves where the mushrooms used to grow.
+
+[6:39] And um you they turned them into reverb caverns. I like that. Yeah. Yeah, pretty cool. Uh what's the best reverb you have on the panel?
+
+[6:47] Uh I mean, I've never used it. I've always wanted to use it. On on my panel? Yeah, right here. What do you got?
+
+[6:52] What's your best reverb? I have terrible reverb. It's a digital reverb. Um, let's see, go let's see what we got. Oh, we're select, yeah.
+
+[7:00] Ambiance, unmute. Let's do a send. Oh, I forgot you have to put it in and send it back and then. We have to send it to the man. All the mix.
+
+[7:09] All right. Ready? Hello? Yeah. And that sounds pretty dry still, man.
+
+[7:14] It's still very dry. Oh, where's the max hold on everything? It's not, it's not a oh, there you go. Sunday. Sunday, Sunday.
+
+[7:21] It feels like I wish, you know, I wish that like I could have gotten a job for Yonker's Raceway back in the day. I feel like I could have gotten geared up for it or like a monster truck rally. I feel like, you know, I know John uh Thunderlungs Lundberg, uh, you know, who used to do the drag racing stuff who was sampled by uh um ministry back in the day. But I feel like I could have done that job. What do you think?
+
+[7:46] Because I can I can get like all jazzed for her like ridiculous things if I need to. Wait, wait, what was that? Was that Jesus was a race car driver? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.
+
+[7:53] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh well he wasn't he was an architect previous to his career as a prophet. Yeah.
+
+[7:59] Carpenter. Yeah. Uh anyway. Um. So what do you guys got?
+
+[8:04] You got any guys got anything in the food world? Anyone? Anyone anything? Any food you guys have eaten recently? Joe Jack, Nastasia.
+
+[8:12] Anyone? Just had a delicious meal at uh Reveler's Hour here in DC. Any of the DC area listeners, if you haven't enjoyed Reveler's Hour, the sister restaurant's tail up goat, which is one of the Michelin starred spots here in DC. Tail up goat. Great.
+
+[8:28] Very good. Tail up goat. Tail up goat and reveler's hour. Now correct me. Correct me if I'm wrong.
+
+[8:34] But a goat puts its tail up when it's pooping. Yes. I couldn't tell you. I mean, like, right? I mean, if I see a tail go up on an animal, I mean, not maybe not a dog.
+
+[8:46] A dog could be wagging his tail, but I'm assuming like a goat or a sheep. They put that tail up. I'm assuming like poop poop poop. No? Am I wrong?
+
+[8:59] Oh. So it just means it just means not a healthy goat, a happy goat, a uh a healthy goat. Think so. And which hour is the reveler's hour, and is it harder to get a reservation during that hour? That's a great question, and I'm not sure.
+
+[9:17] Or is it any hour that you're there is the reveler's hour, and they really want you to get out so that they can burn and turn that table, turn and burn that table. And then maybe that's it. I mean, are you limited to an hour when you're there? No, right? Probably not.
+
+[9:29] No. No. No. No. No.
+
+[9:32] No. No, because how long were you there? You were there longer than an hour, or you wouldn't have said you had a great meal. Nastasia doesn't enjoy meals that are uh shorter than I don't know. I don't know.
+
+[9:39] What's the minimum length of time you can enjoy a meal? We know it's not 22 minutes. We know that that pisses you off, Stas. What's the minimum length of time for a meal that's gonna cost you four hundred dollars? Uh minimum, I don't know.
+
+[9:54] Um an hour. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh and we were what, 22 minutes? Hour's quick, it feels like for like a proper meal.
+
+[10:01] That's that's a quick that's a quick one. What'd we do at Jiro? Twenty two minutes? You're saying minimum though, right, Dave? Yeah, minimum.
+
+[10:11] What's the maximum? At what point are you bent and you're like, get me out, get me the check, and get me the hell out of here. What's your max? Four hours is a lot. That's a lot, but you're really just sitting.
+
+[10:22] Four? I mean, you can do four. I mean, I I you know, I just have to. How many courses is that? It's not just the courses, it's the wine and the yakity schmackity and uh all that.
+
+[10:32] A lot of shell, a lot of yellow. Oh, too much, too much time in a chair. That's too much. Yeah, yeah. Too much time in a chair.
+
+[10:38] Are you one of those people that when you take uh an airplane that are you one of those people who will sit all day, all day, every day, and then as soon as you're on an airplane, you feel the need to stretch immediately? Are you one of those people? No. No, I'm fine. I'm fine with that.
+
+[10:53] You're not one of these people. You're sitting all day sitting at a desk, sitting in a seat on a plane. It's different than sitting at a chair at a restaurant, in my opinion. I don't know why. I don't really know what why, but uh they feel different to me.
+
+[11:08] Does anyone figure out why flying on an airplane messes your insides up so much in terms of like keeping your motor running? I don't it always messes. Red stats, you don't enjoy that crap. Nobody enjoys that crap. I can't say what do you say?
+
+[11:26] I don't get messed up with that way. You stay you stay regular? Yeah. Okay. I know.
+
+[11:34] Yeah. All right, we won't even talk about it. Uh all right. I got some questions in. Uh someone, I don't know what.
+
+[11:44] What's the best way to make the candy come out of the cake? I have to make a cake that when you cut into it, the stuff falls out from the middle. Yeah. What kind of candy is it? Why do you have to do that?
+
+[11:58] Look, this is the problem. The problem is the problem, Jack. We don't get to choose what the problem is. It's for a birthday. Okay, okay.
+
+[12:07] What I'm trying to figure out is like what size of candy, like what are we talking about here? Like it's gonna be different. What? MMs. Okay, okay, okay.
+
+[12:15] Yeah. Okay. So you just need it to be rigid. So okay. I would not obviously the way to do it is you do your layers and then you cut uh like a center out of like the center several layers, and then you just, you know you ice around it and you plop it down, then you fill with candy, right?
+
+[12:34] So you first layer, your you know, middle lamella of icing, stick your uh your next layer on top, make sure it's nice and flat, make sure it's cold. I would freeze it. What I was gonna cook the cake in a bowl. A bowl? What?
+
+[12:52] It's gotta have a Barbie popping out of it too. A bowl? Yeah. A bowl. That's it's got it's gotta have a Barbie popping out of it too, like a dress.
+
+[13:05] Oh, it is a dress. Yes, but when you cut into it, the candy comes out. Okay. They make a thing for this. You're going to have to hollow out a portion of it in order to have it have candy in it.
+
+[13:18] You know this, this is obvious. If you do not wish to have a lower layer bel, you can either hollow out a portion uh of the top and then ice over it, but typically there's a layer of cake surrounding all of the candy stuff. You can either put a lower layer below the bowl-shaped thing, or if you're really gonna be bootleg, you can scoop out the bowl, ice around the thing and slap the cardboard on it and turn it upside down and pray. But that's real bootleg. Uh you know, but those are like yeah, those are your your your options, but like which Barbie are you gonna choose?
+
+[13:50] Are you gonna buy weirdo Barbie? No, I bought one that looks like my friend. Hmm. Okay. All right.
+
+[14:02] Have you seen the Barbie? Of course you didn't see the Barbie movie. You hate movie theaters. I saw it. Oh, you did see it, and what do you think?
+
+[14:10] I had a lot of problems. Yeah. I hated it. Really? So y you guys are the only two people I know that hate absolutely hated the Barbie movie.
+
+[14:20] I we didn't say I say hate it. Jack said he ha Jack said he hated it. All right. So one person hated it and one person thought it was had problems. All right.
+
+[14:32] Yeah. Okay. Wait, Jack, what did you hate about it? Everything. I don't know.
+
+[14:37] It was fine. I I I I I maybe hate was a strong word. I think it just uh did not live up to the expectations that it had. And I don't understand why everybody else loves it so much. I thought it was just fine at best.
+
+[14:53] Just fine. I know, I know. Maybe I was maybe I was overreacting. Oppenheimer was fantastic. I did not see it because I was told if I wasn't gonna see it in 70 millimeter IMAX, don't see it at all.
+
+[15:02] Although I don't know why. Is is Well I saw it in I saw it in 70 millimeter IMAX. Well worth it. No, really? Okay, I gotta go do that.
+
+[15:10] Yeah, he's like only sh I love IMAX. Listen, you know, it's like uh Do you know that there I uh heard on NPR there was one there were three people I think that were uh attested that this happened. Three people were at both bombings at Hiroshima survived both bombings, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. That is like the worst luck ever. Can you imagine?
+
+[15:38] Like yeah, worst. Oh I didn't see the movie Scientist? Uh no, like uh one guy um was late because he forgot something and so wasn't at the Mitsubishi plant in Hiroshima when uh it got bombed and it was completely leveled and you know and he was very badly hurt and then gets on a train to go where his family's from, his family's from Nagasaki and then is in that bombing and ends up surviving. I mean you know that's wow that's yeah crazy. Yeah that's uh not the best um anyway uh but how did we get on this?
+
+[16:15] What were you talking about? Oh cake cake cake Barbie Barbie cake. So is this all so is this gonna be movie-based nostalgia it's gonna be all pink is this gonna be pinkity pink and the pink pink pinks no I bought a Barbie that uh a non-binary Barbie and it is a cake for my non-binary friend and I'm going to Fire Island so yeah but pretty pretty much everything in Barbie Land no matter what you were was pretty pink right wasn't that the their whole shtick or it's not about Barbie the movie it's different. Yes, it's different. It's not pink.
+
+[16:50] What what color is the is the outfit? Uh like purple and silver and um club kitty. Silver uh have you seen the um cartoon Metalocalypse? No. So Metalocalypse it's a cartoon uh about like a uh a death metal band uh called uh what's it called Deathclock and uh they have a chef and the chef gets chummed up and they they sew him together wrong.
+
+[17:22] He gets thrown through helicopter blades and chummed up and they sew him back together wrong and he makes a birthday cake and they want the birthday cake to be metal. You said silver was reminding this. And so his way of making it metal is he mixes mercury in to the frosting and then it's like, don't sample this, don't sample the frosting. It is mercury. He will die.
+
+[17:41] And then, like, you know, I forget whether it's like Prime Minister of Finland somehow eats it and gets completely like liquefied. So you're gonna use mercury as your frosting or not? No. Yeah. Well, the reason you're not is because you've well, you haven't seen metallock.
+
+[17:55] So how would you know not to use mercury? I guess it's hard to get. It would be a heavy cake, too. It'd be so heavy. You ever play with mercury?
+
+[18:02] I have. That probably explains a lot, doesn't it? Mercury is so heavy. Like if you've ever had like a vial of mercury in your hand, like a big, like a jar of mercury in your hand, it is so heavy. No, I only got as close as a thermometer.
+
+[18:16] Yeah, when I was a kid, my mom was uh working in the ER when she was uh an intern or a resident or something, and uh one of the old like sphinatomometer blood pressure suckers, one of the big old emergency room ones, got hit, shattered, mercury everywhere all over the floor of the ER. And I as a little kid, like, you know, like maybe nine, eight, nine, was running around. I ripped uh I ripped the back off of uh, you know how like um legal pads have the cardboard on the back? I ripped one of those off and went around scooping up all of the mercury and throwing it into like urine sample tubes so that I could take it home. And I had it for years in like a urine sample tube, like with all like taped up, and I would just like sit there and play with it every once in a while because it was awesome.
+
+[19:02] Mercury is awesome. I mean silver surfer. Oh my god, mercury is so cool. It's like uh in the way that like liquid nitrogen is really like an amazing material like to work with. Liquid nitrogen is like so mesmerizing.
+
+[19:14] Mercury also super mesmerizing, but you know, obviously you can't let kids play with mercury anymore. This was the 70s, you could do whatever you wanted. You know what I mean? Yeah. There's no warnings on that.
+
+[19:25] No, no, I don't know. Right, right, right. I mean, I don't even think that those things still have murky. First of all, they're all digital now. Like the idea, no one probably even has one of those.
+
+[19:33] But back in the day when they were taking your blood pressure, on the wall, there would be a like a large glass tube full of mercury, and they would put the the thing around you. You could see the mercury go up. When was the last time anyone had one of those in a in a hospital? Probably when my mom broke that, or it wasn't my mom. Someone else broke it anyway.
+
+[19:50] Corn. Can we talk about corn? Have any of you guys had any good corn yet this season? No. No.
+
+[19:57] I had some corn last weekend. It was delicious. It was like it was so anemic. It was so anemic. It looked like just like bad dent dental teeth.
+
+[20:08] Wow. Yeah, but it was phenomenal. When you say that, you mean it was like the the uh kernels were not fully expanded? There were yeah, they were they're like baby teeth, but they're pale white. And I was like, this is not gonna be good corn.
+
+[20:19] And our friend was like, Oh, you just wait. Oh man, where was it from? Farmers market and over in Prospect Park. Huh? All right.
+
+[20:26] Uh I had some from uh a farmer's market up in uh Connecticut when I had to uh rush up there. But uh does LA do corn well, Jack, or no? Um the answer to that. Yeah. I I yeah, I haven't noticed one way or another.
+
+[20:45] Well, then you wouldn't know. I mean, like growing up here, you're like Jersey corn, Jersey, Jersey corn, jersey, jerse, Jersey corn. You know what I mean? Like we know, like we're like, you know, your sweet corn, it comes from Jersey, or it's like Jersey corn. All the markets from Jersey corn, right?
+
+[20:58] You know what I mean? What you stash, you you said no, you're you're not into corn, you just hasn't hasn't come up yet. I haven't bought any yet. But growing up in LA, we grew corn and it was good. You know what?
+
+[21:11] Uh we grew uh well, that was no, that was up in uh in uh Menlo Park. Yeah, we had corn. Oh wait, we have a caller? Caller, you are on the air. Hello.
+
+[21:22] Speaking of corn, I'm calling from Iowa. Wow and uh I'll d I'll double down on that. And the town that I grew up in has a sweet corn festival that happens the second week of August, and I think they go through about seven tons of corn because it is the the whole festival shtick is all you can eat corn for free. So all you can eat corn for free. I can eat a lot of corn, especially if it's free.
+
+[21:46] As can I. In fact, I tested myself one year, and I think I managed to get down like 12 years of corn in my early 20s. Uh now are they growing the same kind of sweet corn there that we have out here on the East Coast, like Silver Queen and all that, or like uh bread butter and like high super sweet hybrids, or what are they growing over there? Like what's the standard sweet corn in Iowa? I think the one that most people are familiar with is called Peaches and Cream.
+
+[22:10] Ooh. I like that. And it is, I mean, you don't even got to cook it. It's just super, super sweet. You can eat it raw.
+
+[22:18] Super delicious. I think that's the only sort of brand name one that I'm aware of. Um, but mm there's a couple producers, especially around where I live, that are just kind of the good ones. There's Grimes, Grimes Sweet Corn, and then Deerdorf are kind of the two big ones. But uh I think the the sort of brand name was is peaches and cream, and it's it's pretty solid.
+
+[22:38] Um yeah. Huh. So like uh and the thing about sweet corn is really like I mean the super sweets, I know that they maintain their sweetness because they've knocked out whatever enzyme it is that like uh digests the sugar, but you really want to live near where it's grown and eat it right away. I mean, that's why that's why I think in New York the Jersey corn center, because it literally just trucks in, they cut it that day, that morning trucks in, you buy it, you eat it. You know what I mean?
+
+[23:03] So I'm sure that like whatever you get there that are growing is better than whatever is shipped to us, you know. Yeah. Well, I mean, we've we we've got pickup trucks with canopies over 'em parked on pretty much every corner in Des Moines. And uh yeah, you can stop by and grab a baker's dozen for like eight bucks or something like that, and it's I I'm I'm definitely intrigued in trying corn from other parts of the country, but uh I feel like I'm gonna have a pretty biased opinion because I grew up around here and I'm used to the super super sweet stuff that we have. All right, one more Iraq question before I got so uh how do you eat the what what's the name of this giant freaking ridiculous pork sandwich, this like giant pork cutlet sandwich?
+
+[23:40] What is that? What's up with that? Oh, the tenderloin, the pork tenderloin. Yeah. Uh I don't know what to tell you.
+
+[23:47] People like to eat uh breaded. I mean, I think the traditional, the old school way was they would take an entire pork tenderloin and pound it out. Yeah. And then uh like pound it flat, like pretty thin. Like this thing is this thing is gonna be probably 10 to 12 inches in diameter by the time it's all said and done.
+
+[24:03] Like it's as big as your head. Right. Uh and and then it gets breaded and fried, and they put it on a bun that's about a quarter of the size of the meat. Yeah. And depending on the p depending on the place, you'll get pickles or like mustard.
+
+[24:15] Um there's some places, there's a uh a place here called Ted's Coney Island that does like a buffalo version that's got like hot sauce and blue cheese on it that's super good. Oh my god, what a past wait. So it's it's got a c got a cutlet on a hamburger bun called a coney with buffalo sauce on it. Like you like it's all over the map, dude. Let's like, you know, like that's what that's I that's Iowa for you, dude.
+
+[24:38] And and how the hell are you supposed to eat this thing? Like, like, because like to me, I don't know whether this we'll take take a poll here. You should be able to pick a sandwich up. Right. You should be able to lift a sandwich into the air.
+
+[24:44] Yeah. I can't even unless you're a basketball player, how are you even gonna pick up the bun with with the meat like that? Well, you don't you don't you don't pick it up like a bun. You pick it up by the by the patty itself and you eat it. It's kind of like eating chicken fingers until you get to the um until you get to the bun part and then it turns into a sandwich, but you kind of have to like eat around it before you get to the bun part.
+
+[25:10] Or cut it in half is another good way to do it. And then you kinda it's an awkward grip. Um, but there's a way that you can like pinch the bun together if you um cut it in half and then split it with somebody or something like that is another option as well. Awkward grip, that was Jack's EDM band, I think. Uh so wait, so does this pickle stuff go all the way to the edge of the meat and the bun just doesn't cover it, or are you eating a bunch of dry stuff?
+
+[25:36] Absolutely not. You'll get like two little you'll get two little uh I call them pickle burgers, you know, the kind of like nasty commodity ones that like McDonald's uses. Yeah, you'll get like two or two or three of those on the whole thing is all that it is. So you're eating a whole bunch of dry cutlet in l or are you supposed to dip it? Like, are you supposed to like put stuff on it?
+
+[25:54] Or are you supposed to just suck it up and eat the dry cutlet? Maybe it's not dry, maybe it's juicy and delicious, but in general, uh, you know, there's no sauce, is what I'm saying. Yeah, it depends on the depends on the place. I definitely think that there's room for people to add seasoning, but I I come from 15 years of working in like fine dining restaurants, and so I'm like, you know, season everything, make sure it all tastes good. Right.
+
+[26:14] Um and that's not necessarily the case. It's a lot of kind of mom and pop shops that do these kinds of things and would balk at the amount of salt that uh someone like me would use. So uh you can find there's definitely some like legendary ones that have like ones that are really nice and juicy and tender. Um but for the most part you're pretty much just eating a the giant like fried pork fritter kind of thing. And uh have they shifted towards Panko Land?
+
+[26:35] Are they still using regular bread crumbs like Schnitzel style? Is it like a soft like schnitzly thing, or is it kind of harder and crunchier? I think it's more more of the Panko style. But uh again, you'll you'll find some of those old school holdout places that are doing like the traditional bread crumbs or whatever. Um you might even find some people that are doing them in like saltine crackers or ritz crackers or something like that.
+
+[26:56] Those are pretty good as well. Gilding the lily with Ritz crackers though, am I right? I mean delicious, but yeah. Yeah. Uh well, did you have a question?
+
+[27:03] Are we just talking corn? Uh yeah, well, yeah, well, I have a I have a corn comment by the way. Uh kudos to you guys for the Sear Sears All Pro. Um I kicks kickstarted it, finally got around to using it. I mostly use my Sears all to char corn, uh, because I live in a patio and I don't have a grill.
+
+[27:20] Oh nice. And uh last week my Sears All original Sears all, the propane tank rain ran out in the middle of me charring some corn, so I whipped out the Sears All Pro and it is noticeably faster, noticeably hotter. Yeah, man. Than uh the the map gas is compared to the propane. So kudos to you guys.
+
+[27:39] You're making my life easier in the uh charred corn category of my life. Well, we we appreciate it. We hopefully we're gonna have more of those to sell at some point. I think they're on the water now, Stas. I don't know.
+
+[27:49] Are they on the water yet? But we only I think so. It's only a small number. We only have like a thousand left. We're trying to figure out a a company to um make more with because uh I'd rather make those than the originals for sure.
+
+[28:02] I mean, I think they're better. Right. Yeah. Right, right. All right.
+
+[28:06] Alright, so I've got a question. Actually I've actually got a big a big question and then maybe an easier question. Uh we'll start with the big one. Uh so I do uh pop-up events. I'm like a a chef professional cook and somebody suggested the idea of doing a whole roasted steamship round.
+
+[28:23] Mm-hmm. I mean that's the classic thing that people used to do the then that's why they call them steamship rounds because they used to roast them for yeah. Do them do them on the do them on the steamships. I've only ever heard of doing this. There was a country club around here that used to do them a lot uh for like banquets and such um but I have never even seen one.
+
+[28:42] Um I've done a little bit of research online and pretty much everything says three hundred degrees cook it to one forty. Um I wonder if you had any insight uh on doing my thoughts are I think that like a china box would probably be the easiest and most cost effective way because I'm gonna have to buy whatever the cooking device is uh it would either be a china box or rotisserie. Right. So I'm curious if you have any insights on that on on which the pros and cons of any of them. Also if you have a recommendation for rotisserie because I know you talk a lot about how the the um the gear mechanisms suck and they have that like the part where they slide or whatever and it's kind of um inefficient or um inconsistent.
+
+[29:24] Yeah how much do they weigh but was um less than a hundred pounds. I think that they are 70 to 90 pounds kind of depending on where you get it from. Yeah yeah I mean like the nice thing about um the problem with I mean look they make the high end rotisseries but they're very obviously pricey right I've never used a cheap one that is worse fit. Right. Another thing that is uh important to consider is that I need it to be relatively mobile.
+
+[29:53] Right. 'Cause it's gonna be at a brewery, and I'm presumably that's why I think the trinum box is gonna be the best bet because I can take that and then do like a half a pig or a lamb or whatever I want in that, in addition to any other like large cuts of roast. And it's also something that's uh doesn't have a lot of uh moving parts, and so it's relatively reliable, but it's also something that I can pack up and take with me if I need to take it somewhere on the road, you know. Yeah, I've never actually had a cajina, but like, and I know people that love it, you know, uh like stu Steingarden used to say how much he loved like a cajina, and like a lot of people really like it. I just don't have a lot of experience with it.
+
+[30:27] Is this something you're gonna do again and again or once? First of all, 140 is real high. I well again, that's and that's kind of what I've that's what I would assume. Um the thing that I'm most curious about is how you get it to cook evenly because the thing is really thick, like you're not you're not gonna have a sous vide style tip to tip temperature, whatever it is your end result is. And so I feel like it's gonna be like well done on the outside and then like pretty medium rare, rare in the middle, yeah closer to the bone or whatever.
+
+[30:54] And I wonder whether I w I wonder whether like a vertical situation like a Schwarma setup would be because those are relatively poor. That wasn't that was another one that I thought of that would be super handy. Did they make propane versions of those that you can like use outside? Yeah, they do, and they're uh because a lot of people uh are interested in the like you need a a problem that a lot of people are interested in. So a lot of people are interested in kind of like uh Schwarma slash donor slash al pastor.
+
+[31:21] And so there are relatively inexpensive propane fired rigs that are made, you know, stainless and somewhat portable that aren't that much money. Can you can you use those for anything other than a giant tube of gyro meat or donor meat? Well, that's what I'm rivaled up on. Well, I'm wondering if you could do it with it with this. You know, uh I've never done I mean, the only vertical stuff I've done is very fast, like Tandor.
+
+[31:44] I've never done any long term verticals. So, I mean, obviously I don't everyone like likes in a rotisserie the theoretical self basting aspect of it, but I don't really know how big a deal that is because I've never done any long term vertical um I just do vertical grilling, not vertical like spit roasting or anything like this. Um that's that's the that's the other difference with this is that that you're taking a raw product instead of a euro that's like I do they aren't though euro tubes like already cooked and they're just like reheating them basically. I mean or is it like raw? Originally they weren't, right?
+
+[32:19] So like uh you know, like originally I mean, I actually I don't really know with uh I'm assuming that the that the donor slash swarma thing were done similarly to the way the Alpes door is where you like you're pounding them out and then like layering them in layers and they like, you know, they eventually bond together. But they could have of originally also been a big minced thing as well. So I don't know. But I think a lot of people have questions of how those things are cooked safely and I think nobody knows. You know what I mean?
+
+[32:48] Like uh uh at least I don't know. That was something that was a giant red flag and a in a thing that happened a couple years ago. Another uh a restaurant tour wanted to who we had no experience cooking a whole cow. Yeah, but he he like bought this cow and then like had this whole setup where he was basically like open flame in the parking lot over some grill grates and I came in a couple days later and found the thing was like still pretty rare. And uh I was like, Well, my immediate thought goes to this thing sitting out uh outside it within the temperature danger zone for like twelve hours.
+
+[33:20] It's like you're gonna kill somebody if you feed that to them, you know what I mean? Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, that was kinda my that was kind of the other thought that I the other worry that I had about doing the rotisserie style one is that uh it's probably gonna take a long time to cook. I mean, all of the again, all the internet stuff that I found said that they take five to six hours at 300 degrees to get up to 140. So Yeah, 140 is 60 degrees.
+
+[33:43] Like who cooks bees in the center up to 60 unless you hate beef. You know what I mean? Like, there's there's also woefully woefully little information on doing these things. I found a couple of video clips, but um, there's just not a lot of material about it. And so that's what I was hoping uh you or somebody else listening would have some insight to offer with that kind of a thing, because it sounds like a super fun event, right?
+
+[34:09] You just like bake some awesome dinner rolls and you have this giant slab of like roasted beef and you're just carving off slices, putting some sauce on it, like bada bing, bada boom. Well, there you go. Then then you get to win, right? So if as long as you put a nice crust on it, like what do they use at beef on wheck in in Buffalo, I wonder. Like we need like a beef on whack expert, right?
+
+[34:26] Because they just put the the the the you know, they have the cool roll with the the salt and the caraway and some jus on it, and then you're good. As long as it's got the jus and stuff, I mean nobody really cares and horseradish. I mean got horseradish, you know what I mean? I mean, God love horseradish, right? Um the other option the other option now that I'm thinking about it would be that this this place that we're planning on doing this at has a kitchen.
+
+[34:53] And so maybe we just cook it in the oven in their kitchen and then bring it out for presentation purposes and put it on the rotisserie and spin it around and slice it off or something like that. Oh, like a like a like a fake tissery, like just like a a for show. Yeah. If you're gonna if you're gonna do it for show, if you're gonna do it for show, I recommend getting a like a large uh hamster wheel and putting a dog in it and having the dog run like the old spit dogs like they used to do back in the middle ages. Right.
+
+[35:20] And just have it needs to be like a little terrier like thing like running in the wheel and that's like turning the meat. And then you know when people ask you like he's been doing this for twelve hours. He's been running straight for twelve hours. You know and if he does it beat you have to get a uh a sled dog to to manage that but the place has a dog park so that could very well do that could very well be an element that we work in to the extent there you go. Yeah just you know research spit dogs and like you know you know figure that out and uh you know that's a show right there nobody cares how it was actually cooked.
+
+[35:51] You know what I'm saying? As long as there's a dog and a a a giant hamster wheel and a dog I think you're good. Right. Yeah. All right awesome let us know how it goes and uh hopefully anyone who's hearing this can chime in on the Discord or whatnot with some steamship round ideas.
+
+[36:07] But that's always I don't even think I've ever had it. That's just something you hear they're like oh the It's old school. Right. The alternative minimum internal temperatures were built for things like that for like large roasts and steamship rounds because they have to be in the danger zone longer than any number would allow it. So they literally wrote codes for it because they were like well everybody knows you gotta cook a giant piece of meat when you're doing catering it like a boat.
+
+[36:32] What about a steamship round yeah yeah what about exactly exactly and so they had to write the rules for it. And that's the way rules are written rules are written because somebody has something they want to do so they figure it out for that. You know they as I've said many times the rules aren't designed to allow you to do everything that's safe. The rules are designed to guarantee that everything you do is safe, if that makes sense the difference. Yeah.
+
+[36:54] Right. Yeah. Yep. I got one more quick question too. What's up?
+
+[36:58] Uh I make a lot of doubled eggs. Oh, yeah, good. You know, true method. You know why? Because they're delicious.
+
+[37:03] That's correct. That is crazy. And I make mine a little bit spicy because that's what deviled means, right? It's got to have a little bit of kick to it. I don't know.
+
+[37:13] Devil meat, right? The underwood is that that's not spicy. That's just cooked to hell, right? I like that stuff too. I like candy.
+
+[37:19] Uh I've never encountered that in my life, so I wouldn't have an opinion on it. Yeah. I'm gonna go ahead and do that. I would hope that I would hope that anything with uh deviled as a as a uh uh adjective would be spicy because you know, heaven hell. Yeah, you know uh brimstone, all that's he's not here if I'm gonna make fun of him uh our man John with his uh Fra Diablo pasta.
+
+[37:38] When I saw it, I was like, oh man, I'm back in the eighties. I love Fradial's good. Yeah, yeah. Oh man, I yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. With you on that.
+
+[37:45] Okay, so I've got a tried and true recipe, tried and true method. Um I made them last week and the filling broke. Like it was not emulsified, it wasn't unservable, but it was definitely broken. Um and I think that the one difference with this particular batch is usually when I'm peeling them and scooping out the insides, um, a couple of the the whites will break. And when I'm when I make this, I make it in a food processor, like the filling goes in a food processor.
+
+[38:13] Um I trim them so that they stand up nice and straight. And all of the egg white trim and the broken egg white goes into the filling as well. It all just gets blended in there. Right. Um this time I didn't have any broken eggs, so there was less of that egg white in there.
+
+[38:29] But I'm still trying to like scratch in my head, figuring out how this could stuff could have broken because it's a freaking lecithin bomb between you know, the egg yolks, uh, the mayonnaise, Dijon, a little bit of sriracha. Um, and I do a just a little bit of extra virgin olive oil in there as well, but I'm just trying to figure out how the heck I broke this stuff. I don't I don't know because all of those things like each one of those things is like I will not break. Like each one of those things, mustard's like, I'm good. Mayonnaise is like, I'm good.
+
+[39:01] Unless did you use your own mayonnaise or did you use like are you going Hellman's and you're bringing out the best? Or wait, no, w are you east of the Hellman's line? I mean west of the Hellman's line? Uh uh it's called uh Yeah, what's it called out there? It has a different name.
+
+[39:16] We have Hellman. Okay, then you're on there on the Hellman. You're on I s you're on our side of that line. It's like I guess it's like West of the Rockies, Hellman's is called something else. Anyway.
+
+[39:25] Really? Uh yeah, but are you making your own mayonnaise? Because that could be the culprit. No, not in this case. I usually for s there would be an instance where I would make a homemade mayonnaise, but for something like doubled eggs, you know, I'm just I've got the the nice three-pound uh container from Costco sitting in my fridge perpetually and then a backup done in my garage all the time.
+
+[39:42] So that is not going to break. Like literally, like that is the bulletproof mayonnaise. And then you take egg yolks, mayonnaise, and mustard, and fundamentally in any ratio should not break. You know what I mean? Like that's that's like the negrony of not breaking.
+
+[39:57] Like that's like, you know what I mean? It's I don't understand. Is there any is there is there is there any way to bring it back? Like if I added a couple drops of water to it or something like that, wouldn't that help? I mean, more air.
+
+[40:09] Or maybe I just needed it, maybe I just maybe maybe blend it longer. I'm not sure. I don't know what would have happened. I mean, let unless, like, unless like you like blanked out, like, unless like some sort of like marvel blip was happening while you were adding the oil and you just sat there going gliggity gliggity gliggity gliggity gliggity gliggity and then like we're like there for like an hour. You know what I mean?
+
+[40:31] No, no, no, no, no. No, I've got it. So I I you'll appreciate this. So I the I do everything in metric, and everything is scaled to whatever the quantity of egg yolks is. So the first thing I do is I measure out the egg yolks and then I crunch the numbers from my master recipe to make it work, and I actually do all of the um filling ingredients into the bowl before I put it in the food processor, and then I just like process it till it's smooth.
+
+[40:53] Yeah. I don't know. I understand what's going on here. Yeah. I've never had this happen, so I don't know.
+
+[40:58] And when you say broke, like full broke, like chunks of like liquid and like then like oil in between. No, it no, not quite. It was it was just um there was like um it was kind of greasy around the edges, like you could see where some of the oil hasn't hadn't been fully emulsified into it. Beat a couple more egg yolks into that, you know, you know, egg beat some more egg yolks and salt into that, see if it gets pipeable. See if some are you a chive or paprika or chai van paprika, neither.
+
+[41:24] What are you? Uh the standard recipe I have that is very easy to add stuff to. I almost always will put some like fresh herbs or pizza candied bacon or something on top of it or pickle. Yeah. Um, but the base recipe is uh mustard, uh Dijon, mayo, onion powder, garlic powder, sriracha, olive oil, and then a little bit of salt, and then like a little bit of cayenne pepper too in there to make it give it that kick.
+
+[41:49] Yeah, yeah. Well, also the cayenne, you know, that's in the 70s, that's what we used from everything. Like in the 70s, like everyone had like they had paprika for the color on top, because we always dusted the crap with paprika when you were done. But we all like when you like everyone would specify cayenne pepper. You know what I mean?
+
+[42:07] Like that was this and so I feel like deviled Eggs is like even pre-70s, but I mean, it was going hardcore in the 70s. Like deviled egg was like, I kind of miss them. I wish that they would happen more often. You know what I mean? Oh yeah.
+
+[42:19] I did them uh well, the reason that it sort of started was that I do I do private chef work sometimes. So I did I did like an in-home five course wine pair dinner appetizer hour, the whole shebang, and uh all of this super seasonal, thoughtfully curated, thoughtfully and lovingly prepared and presented, you know, and every all that anybody could talk about were the doubled eggs at the appetizer. You know, it's like I should probably write this recipe down. And so now that I have the recipe standardized, I'd serve them a lot more. Yeah, figure out what broke, and then you can, you know, go telling people not to not to do that or whatever, because I'm curious.
+
+[42:53] Yeah, all right. Well, good luck with bringing it back into uh fine feather. Let us know what happened. All right, appreciate the insight. Thank you.
+
+[43:01] Thanks. Uh all right, so back to corn for a minute, if I may. Separate side of corn. So someone asked on the internet, uh, and I don't remember which whether it was Twitter or Instagram or whatever, like uh any kind of good way to get the silk off of corn. Are you guys silk haters when the silk doesn't come off the corn?
+
+[43:22] No. No, yeah, I'm not a hater. I don't care that much. If like a little a little silk is left over, like I'm not like whatever, you know what I mean? But like uh like one of the best ways I do hate shucking corn though and getting silk all over the god danged counter and everything, and then you have to have the big paper.
+
+[43:40] Remember, you're like, I don't know, if you're like I mean Nastasia, I guess if you were growing it, it's different, but we would be like, go outside onto the deck with this trash bag and shuck the corn and then don't get the little hairs everywhere. Remember? I don't know. Has anyone else had this experience but me? Anyway, yeah, I've had those experiences.
+
+[43:58] I usually just do it at the grocery store. What? You're that guy? I do, man. I if it's if it's by pound, if you're gonna weigh it and like I want to get as much corn as possible.
+
+[44:08] And it doesn't weigh much. I saw a lady shucking corn at the supermarket at a Trader Joe's, and I asked the Trader Joe's guy later, I was like, what the hell? And he's like, Yeah, some people do that. I didn't know you were that guy, Joe. Yeah, I'm revealed.
+
+[44:22] Jeez Louise. Anyway, uh, so one of the tricks that people use to uh get all this people do like various things, like they scrub it with uh with a toothbrush, or they use like uh, you know, um rubber gloves to like you know, massage it off or uh towels or all this other stuff. And one of the techniques is you nuke the corn in the husk, and that kind of like cooks and breaks the silk uh where it attaches, and then you cut off the very like the butt end of the corn when you pop it out, and all the silk stays with the husk, and the husk is now in a tube and it's easier to throw away because it's not opened up like a flower. And I was like, this seems like a good idea, except for the fact that I hate using first of all, my microwave is too small to do anything reasonable in it. And secondly, microwaves don't scale very well, right?
+
+[45:14] So you a recipe that works for like two pieces of corn is gonna be like won't work for four pieces of corn, and it's gonna be too much for one piece of corn. And it's very hard to figure out like kind of what's going on and get everything equal equal. Uh so I just tested last night, in fact, with the corn I bought, uh, steaming it, which I've never done before, steam it with the husk on, which is actually super easy. So you just you cut off like most of the you know the bottom so that they're shorter than they normally would be, but like don't cut through to the butt end of the corn uh and steam it for a little bit longer than you uh than you normally would. So I steamed it for like I don't know, nine minutes or something like this.
+
+[45:54] Uh, you know, uh nine, ten minutes, and then pull it out and then um you know, get uh gloves, get like uh, you know, uh grill gloves or something, right? Because I have those anyway. So I pick up the grill uh corn with the grill gloves, and then I you cut off just like the first row on the butt end and pop out the pop out the corn, and you could do as many as you want, as many as you can fit in your pot because the you know, steam doesn't care. Steam's not a microwave, steam doesn't care how much uh your load is. So I did uh I did a bunch of that way.
+
+[46:24] I did uh seven years yesterday in you know, nine minutes, and it would they were super easy and they came out super clean, and uh it was actually l easier, I think, than shucking it beforehand. Anyway, corn. Um Josh S. writes in, we were just given an air fryer, obviously not a fryer, you know, yes, obviously. I I wish I could find the so that whoever like came up with the term air fryer, I'm sure they're I'm sure they don't make any money at all.
+
+[46:51] I'm sure they came up with it for a company and the company made all the money and they didn't. It's genius and evil at the same time. You know what I mean? I mean, the only thing that's correct about it is air. It does use air.
+
+[47:03] Um obviously not a fryer, but what are some good novel ways to unlock its potential? Uh look, these uh these things are great for um I use I use this super convection setting on I don't have an air like a dedicated air fryer, but I use the super convection all the time in my brevel uh for things like bacon or anything that you want to get like a little extra brown on the outside uh right away. So I mean like just think of it as uh an impingement oven and not as an air fryer, and I think uh, you know, I think it's gonna be good. I don't have anything special special. It's just if I'm like want the outside crispy, right?
+
+[47:45] And as though I was using a like a massive convection oven, I use an air fryer. The problem with uh uh air fryers is um you can't overload them because you only have about 15 to 1700 watts of power coming out of the wall socket, and so there's a limit to what they can actually crispify because uh there's just a limit because you're evaporating moisture off the surface and that takes a lot of energy. So you can't overload an air fryer and hope to get that crispy outside, but it's you know, as long as you keep the amount that you're putting in low, or if you have a large family, own like five air fryers and have them plugged into five different outlets all over your house, then you can make a lot of stuff. Anyway. Uh Alexi writes in any experience making key lime pie with um uh acid adjusted other juices, not lime.
+
+[48:33] Alexi, no, but that is a fantastic idea. I love this idea, and I am going to try it. I mean, like I could imagine, you know, a key grapefruit pie. I could imagine, you know, key orange you could do, but I feel that that's a little more less interesting. I think key, yeah, a key pineapple pie, a key.
+
+[48:55] I mean, like I'm gonna keep I like Alexi, this is a fantastic idea. I'm gonna do this for sure. I do you guys like a key lime pie? Oh man. Yeah?
+
+[49:04] Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Uh Kiit Satsuma. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[49:08] That sounds good. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Stas, what about you?
+
+[49:11] Are you okay with the key lime pie or no? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. I love it.
+
+[49:16] And it's no bake. It's so summery. You know what I mean? I also I don't make it that often, but gosh, graham cracker crust. So good.
+
+[49:24] The best. Yeah. Yeah. So easy. So good.
+
+[49:28] Like whoever came up with that first should, I hope I mean they're way dead. They're super dead, but they should totally just pat themselves on the back wherever they are. Just be like, you know what? Good job. Like if you only ever came up if like the only thing you ever did in life was like, I did the graham cracker crust.
+
+[49:45] I'd be like, you won. You know what I mean? Anyway. Um kind of like doing the Ritz cracker for uh uh instead of a uh a a bread crumb. Yeah, I gotta try that.
+
+[49:55] But it's interesting because it's uh well I wonder what that's gonna be like because I mean because most breadings have like some fat in them, but not a lot of fat. I mean the Ritz is a buttery cracker. I love the Ritz, but very buttery. But it's good. What's the other what's the fake Ritz?
+
+[50:09] The one that's like a Ritz but not a Ritz. Is it socials, sociables? I I I honestly don't know. No, me either. Uh now this person chooses to remain anonymous.
+
+[50:21] It just says from because they have a licking question. Uh I have a stainless steel water bottle that fails the lick test. And for those of you that don't know, we're not gonna get into it. But the question is, is d is there a better implement than your tongue to figure out whether something has residual flavors on it? And are you allowed to ask people to use that instrument to determine whether something is clean or not?
+
+[50:43] I'm not gonna get into it. Uh I have a but that's what the lick test is. Uh well, actually I can taste it. Uh I can taste I could taste the water that I could taste the bottle in the water that sits in it. I don't know what causes flavor, but it has a residual cleaner kind of taste, even after going through the dishwasher a few times.
+
+[51:00] What are things other than soap to try cleaning it with to remove that taste? Well, to me, this is a well-known taste because if you've ever worked in like a commercial kitchen with a bunch of stainless, right? What is that? Lark? I don't know.
+
+[51:13] Is that a good one? Lark is an infrared um self-cleaning water bottle. And you like it? Love it. Yeah?
+
+[51:19] Love it. Lark no you. Q no you. L-A-R-Q. Like Iraq, but Lark, exactly.
+
+[51:26] All right. Uh so if you hand, and I've done this so many times, hand a bunch of the big bowls are on a problem, but like uh Bane Marie's that are taller, so kind of like your jar, and they go through dish, they come out smelling awful, like metal. Uh and I used to make all of the interns smell the containers to make sure they weren't putting stuff in so that they could, you know, have that metal metal smell. The same way that like, you know, back at um Booker and Dacks, uh, the sambar folks would fill all of the core containers with uh chopped up scallions uh, you know, and or shallots or whatever. And if you didn't smell the cork container before you put stuff in, you had grapefruit juice that smelled like onions.
+
+[52:12] Remember that styles? Oh, it's so gross. Remember that? Ugh. Uh what I would do, and I think it's a like I don't know what happens in a commercial dishwasher that makes it, but when it's hand dishwashed, it to me it smells like a scrubby.
+
+[52:27] It smells, it's only with stainless and it smells like a scrubby. And sometimes even smells a little vaguely eggy. I I I hate it. Um, no soap after it's dry and done, a rinse with super hot tap water, rinse and dump, rinse and dump. That's typically what I do, and it goes away.
+
+[52:44] I wouldn't scrub it anymore, in other words, or do any of that. It's already gone through its thing. Rinse, dump, hot water should be fine. We also used to make everyone rinse everything with hot water because if they rinsed everything with cold water, um, sometimes it would smell like chlorine, and then that would come through, and I hated that. Like, and you look things like water bottles and vein marries tend to concentrate these smells because they're almost like a wine glass, right?
+
+[53:11] They're they're tall, and when you put your nose in it, you can really smell any flaws uh on the outside. So yeah, sure. The focus is up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I feel I feel you, anonymous.
+
+[53:23] Uh Jacob P. Right saying, Can I pasteurize something like lemon juice using an immersion circulator without it drastically changing the flavor? No. That's all. Uh look, some people do look.
+
+[53:37] Here's the thing. If you heat if you can come up with a temperature for lemon juice to cook it to quote unquote pasteurize it, right? Not a not a crap ton of stuff gonna grow in it because it's so acidic. It's like pH, I forget what it is, so very acidic. Um if you heat it, uh, I know people that heat it and it does stabilize it, right?
+
+[53:57] So if you boil it, which you're not gonna do, right? If you boil it with sugar, that's cordial. And now the flavor is stable for for I wouldn't say forever, but for a long time, like years stable, right? So that is a flavor that I like when it's cordial, right? Now, in terms of low, I do I do know some people who do lower temperature, as you call it, pasteurization to stabilize the flavor of it, but it doesn't stabilize the same as fresh.
+
+[54:23] So, what you what you do is is if you come up with uh a procedure, a heating procedure that you can do in a bag or whatever, and you follow that procedure every time, and you end up like writing your recipes for that ingredient, it will be consistent from day to day, right? So that you can win on, but it's not gonna taste the same as fresh. So if you get your recipe so that you like it that way, then God bless, right? Because uh that's the way that works. Um Jeff writes in, would like to hear uh more about the density based method uh I use uh I mentioned on the live stream a few weeks back about I did a live stream for the Patreon folks.
+
+[54:59] I gotta do that again. That was uh pretty fun. Uh about finding out the sugar percentage of liqueurs. So I have something called the first of all, in 10 years' time, like anyone, any like one with an iPhone, uh, you know, and a and like a $500 or $400 piece of equipment is gonna be able to measure everything. Like they're gonna have it, you know what they're gonna do?
+
+[55:19] They're gonna use uh they're gonna use uh these uh infrared techniques along with machine learning, and then like when you you're gonna be able to like put a small sample of food onto like a little piece of glass, and it'll tell you roughly what's in it. 10 years, 10 years tops under a grand. You know what I mean? Maybe 15. Anyway, but calories too?
+
+[55:39] Uh well, it'll be able to theory, it'll be able to figure all that out, but it's mainly gonna be like, oh, does this have any you're you're gonna say, oh, I don't like benzoits, and it's gonna be able to say there are no benzoits or there are benzoids, or you're like, you're gonna be able to ask it if there's any some sort of preservative or whatnot, and it'll figure it out, or you'll ask it how much sugar is in it, and it'll tell you. Like it's gonna go that way. It the tech there needs to be a little work on hardware and a lot of work on the machine learning, but it's it's gonna happen because I think a lot of people would want to buy that, so that there's a market for it. However, uh right now, Anton Parr, and I have my issues with the Anton Parr Corporation, P A A R, make something called the Easy Dens. Uh and it's a small portable density meter.
+
+[56:23] Uh, and so what you do is is you just put 10 milliliters of sample through the easy dense, really more like six, but you put that through it and it gives you the density of whatever you put through it, right? So any liquid you can put through it, it gives you the density. Uh then I use a portable, uh like a small refractometer that's accurate to about two digits after the decimal. Well, it's accurate to one and a half digits after the decimal point. And then I get uh the refractometer reading, and the combination of those two uh readings I put into a third program called Alco Alcodens LQ that is not free, but you can download a trial of, and given those two numbers, it will tell you uh what the sugar and alcohol level is, or if you trust the alcohol number, all you need is the density without the refractometer meeting and reading, and it will tell you how much sugar is in it.
+
+[57:16] So that's what I do. I've also been doing this is what I've been doing for the past week or so. I have like a hundred samples of different liqueurs, and I've tested them all, and I'm in the process of testing the ones that have acid for acid. Uh it's not fun. Can I just say it's not fun?
+
+[57:31] Like running a whole bunch of titrations is not fun. It's an unfun thing to do. Um, hey, uh Nastasi and Dave, please help me figure out my mystery cocktail allergy. I love fun drinks, but I've been avoiding most cocktails because I have broken out in highs. Uh, have we answered this?
+
+[57:51] I've broken out in hives several times when I've had sweet drinks recently. The last and worst time, I had an Arnold Palmer with vodka uh at a beach bar in Florida. I think maybe you're allergic to Florida. Do you think that's what it is, S? I think it's Florida.
+
+[58:05] No. I asked, uh, and they used Minute May Lemon via a soda gun. Oh my god. You're in Florida and they're using like like lemonade out of a gun. I don't know.
+
+[58:15] Uh I broke out in full body batteries. Yeah. Previously it's happened to a lesser extent, some redness and wheezing on occasions when I had a genetonic a pina collat and other fruity tiki drinks. You know, I don't know, uh, I don't know, but there is like contact allergies with lime and sun, right? So that could like that's something, but this is eating it.
+
+[58:37] I don't really know what this could be. Could be a dirty line from the soda gun. Yeah, but what would cause an allergy in it? Like uh I'm fine drinking uh wine, beer, martinis, vodka, tikangia's uh uh sodas, or skinny Tommy margaritas from time to time. I have no other food allergies, and when I get an allergy test, my only other allergy was to cockroaches.
+
+[58:55] Well, and Florida is the land of those giant flying cockroaches. Maybe maybe they're living in that gun. Palmettoes. Palmetto bugs, man. I hate a palmetto bugs.
+
+[59:04] Is it just a sh I've never heard of an alcohol plus sugar allergy, or is there a specific ingredient I may be able to avoid? I don't know. Although I found a recent uh allergy uh thing, some some things contain hidden allergens. It's not like listed. So like one of my favorite products is Capcourse.
+
+[59:19] I love Capcourse, which is uh it's like uh mistel fortified with uh and with uh um neutral spirit and uh quinine, and it's like you know, from Corsica, it's French. It's delicious, but the red has uh nut uh nut husk infusion in it, and it's not listed on the label, so my stepfather had an allergic reaction. So there could be something you had to think. I would look into this, maybe it's a lime situation, and then you got lime on yourself at the same time, and then you know, uh, and then got in the sun. I don't know.
+
+[59:50] I I'm gonna anyone else that has anything else, uh, ask me. Uh Lee writes in, uh hey, uh I'm a junior wok chef at a one-star Chinese in London. I've been listening to cooking issues every morning while opening for the past eight months, and uh many thanks for the hours of entertainment. Uh I'm a mere 20 odd episodes away from finishing the shows you've recorded and listening with bittersweet anticipation as I approach the end. In case you're still fielding questions, I recall in one episode that you mentioned industrial flavorists had isolated the flavor of woke, and was wondering if there was a particular uh sources you recommend on that.
+
+[1:00:20] I'm always interested by different people's explanations and definition. Kenji seems uh so far to be the most convincing, but my exec chef provided perhaps the most amusing wake is a scam. All right. It was uh David Michael, uh, and uh the person I knew was uh Julie Snarski. She's since retired.
+
+[1:00:35] Uh they never sold it commercially. She made the wakay for uh Jean Georges's chef, Greg Brainen, who I think is still, you know, one of the heads of the ship over there at the JG Empire. But the woke hay, the way they did it was they analyzed uh a bunch of uh things that were cooked at high temperatures in walks, and I believe it was uh uh overfired oil and metal. Like so the two things they were doing were like the scraping from the wok, so like some sort of metal y flavor and just like really high fired uh like you know, scorched burnt oil, where like the things they were adding to add woke. Uh so that's uh that's what it is.
+
+[1:01:13] Anyway, uh cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking New Shoes. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Usues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Midtown, Rockefeller Center in New York City, News 10 Studios. Joined as usual with uh John who you doing? I'm doing right, how are you? You were not doing fine though.
+
+[0:29] No, last week I was miserable. You were like laid out. Oh yeah, I don't know what the hell I had. Fever, sore throat, maybe strap. Um yeah, just really, really miserable.
+
+[0:38] Yeah. What's your favorite fever-related top 40 hit of the last 34 years? Wait, say that what? There's so many fever songs. Like, what's your favorite fever song?
+
+[0:50] Well, Nastasi the Hammer Lopez and Jackie Molecules and Joe Hazen are also here. They should probably all weigh in. I'm sure they have opinions on this. Like what song you'd like to listen to when you're No, a fever-related song. Like, are you a hot blooded check it and see?
+
+[1:04] I got a fever of 103. Oh. Are you a like what kind of a fever song are you? I did have a fever of 102, so almost there. Almost there.
+
+[1:14] Almost. Not quite hot blooded. That's a great tune, though. It is. Check it and see.
+
+[1:19] Yeah. Anyone else got a good fever? Like, I the thing is like the other song to think of like that like fever, that's not, you know, that's not a uh a rock song. You know what I mean? Well, the Peggy Lee?
+
+[1:30] No, uh, I forget who sings it. Fever, you know, fever when you're fever. Yeah, fever when you hold me tight, blah, blah, blah. There's night fever. There's uh night fever.
+
+[1:40] Oh, no, not cat scratch fever. Not cat, not cat scratch. Not yeah, it counts, but that's not the one to go with. Toxoplasmosis. I don't choose that one.
+
+[1:50] But it's not about toxoplasmosis, right? Or that litter box fever. That's litterbox feature. You don't get toxoplasmosis from from a scratch, right? You get it from like dipping your hand in the in the cat litter, yeah.
+
+[1:59] In the snow caps. Yeah. Hey, do any of you are any of you guys cat people? No. Yeah, I am.
+
+[2:11] Do you have the automatic kitty litter box? Oh, I don't have a cat. I should have I should have clarified. Yeah. Yeah, I used to have cats, and they didn't have the automatic litter box.
+
+[2:20] Someday, Booker, when he if he ever gets his own apartment, which he hopes to do someday, he wants to get a cat, but he's also like a nightmare with that sort of stuff. So I'm all about that automatic kitty litter box. You know what I mean? Yeah, it does seem cool. Our kids were born right at the diaper genie line.
+
+[2:35] So there's a you know the diaper genie line before and after the diaper genie. You guys know what the diaper genie is? You've heard of the diaper genie? No. Do they still have this thing, Joe?
+
+[2:43] The diaper genie. No? No, I'm not getting anything from Joe on diaper genie. So the diaper genie is like you ever made sausage? Yeah.
+
+[2:52] All right. Yes, they do. Yeah, you know it's the diaper genie. Yeah. So when you make a sausage, right, you put a certain amount of filling into the link, and then you twist the link.
+
+[3:03] Yeah. Now imagine that with poop with diapers. So instead of shoving meat into a poop tube, which is what sausage is, you're stuffing poop in well, it's not a meat tube, it's a plastic tube. So it tw you you throw in the dirty diaper, and then you take the lid and you go shrimp, shrimp, shrimp, and you rotate it a couple of times and it twists off the dirty diaper like it's uh uh like it's a sausage, and then you like pull this like link a poo out when you're done, when the bag strip is done. It's one long it's like three feet long, yeah, yeah.
+
+[3:35] So you pull out this like sausage link of doo-doo, and then you just throw that whole thing away, and your house doesn't smell like diaper. But you can't do it. It works great. We have one in the house right now, we use it all the time. There you go.
+
+[3:46] Diaper genie. Platex. Genie. Yeah. Diaper genie.
+
+[3:49] Diaper genie. Brought to you by. That's that's one of those things that likes there was a before and after. There was get these dang things out of the house right now, right? That's what I do at my house.
+
+[3:59] So Booker, my son Booker, I've said this a million times. But he's about 99% salmon and like 1% tuna fish, right? Or maybe like maybe like 70, 30 salmon and tuna fish. But he doesn't clean up after himself like at all. So like uh we were away dropping Dax off at college because Dax went to Connecticut College.
+
+[4:21] So now I'm a huge Connecticut College uh, what's it called? Booster, boost, boosting, Connecticut College. Love it. Although it's strange to say, do you guys know anything about New London food? It's the one place in Connecticut, it's one of the places in Connecticut where I don't really know anything about the food.
+
+[4:35] I mean, there used to be that combat cuisine thing. Nastasi and I were so close to finding the old chef from Combat Cuisine and then you know getting him to do a pop-up thing with us. Remember that, Stas? I had found his little years ago. I found his location.
+
+[4:50] He had that restaurant called uh Something Something Combat Cuisine, which closed in like, you know, the late 90s, and he was working at a lobster shack, I think in like Noank or something. We were gonna get him to do an event so that we could have the Combat Cuisine pop up, but then pandemic happened. So yeah. And I I went as far as to call the lobster shack where he works, and they're like, the season's not on enough yet. We can't, we we can't get him in.
+
+[5:19] But oh well. Did my hot dog place a new London clothes? I don't know. There you I don't know. I don't know.
+
+[5:26] Anyway, so Mystic has great food, though. It's not that far. It's not that far, but you want to boost New London. I mean, Mystic, of course, has great stuff. Of course, Mystic has great stuff.
+
+[5:34] That's the whole point of it. It's being a cute tourist town. New London's New London. Yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[5:40] So anyway, so Booker covers our house in fish. So like whenever we leave for a couple of days and he's there in the house, you open the door and it's like, oh it's like the Fulton fish market used to be. It's like you walk in and there's scales all over the uh, all over the, you know, dried up salmon scales all over everything and friggin' Oh boy, trash full of salmon, you know, um, whatever they call those, like they're not styro anymore. You know those plastic trays that that they sell fish in? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[6:11] Those things. Salmon juice, tuna tuna juice, yum. Yeah. You know what? A couple of days of that smell real nice.
+
+[6:21] Yeah. Real nice. I bet. Yeah, yeah. Uh so Nastasi and I are going to do an event in Los Angeles.
+
+[6:31] And I believe Miss Your Molecules will be present as well. Is this true? Are you gonna be there? Are you gonna be in LA? Are you gonna come to our event?
+
+[6:39] Uh we're doing it with cells on, yeah. Oh my god, can you actually have bells on? Do you know I once actually wore bells to a place? Sounds terrible. Uh so you can go on the internet.
+
+[6:50] It's a very bad quality copy because I took it off a VHS that was like 20 years old when I took it off. So you know how VHS degrades horribly. So like the sound, especially also is horribly degraded. And the the video was always degraded because it was VHS. It started degraded.
+
+[7:04] It started with like three lines of video because it's VHS. Betamax should have won. But um it's called What I'm Thinking About, and it's me in an elf outfit, like an infinite number of me marching from the horizon and then jumping into a wood chipper, and then like a band coming out and playing. And then me just jumping into the wood chipper over and over and over again. Cartoon Goo flying out of the wood chipper.
+
+[7:39] 1995 or something like this, I did it. Anyway, uh, so when I made that outfit, I sewed that outfit out of felt, right? Green wool, like heavy green wool felt. And I bought green suede, like uh like real leather suede and veg tan leather, and I made the curly shoes, like the massively curly shoes. They were so curly and so long that when I would walk, they would like flop all the way out and then curl back up like shroink, shploink, shploink, like like like like like a like a frog's tongue, chwamp, hwamp the curly shoes.
+
+[8:20] And I remember I went to uh a barbecue joint up in the upper west side. Again, this is the 90s, and they said something to me that made me say, if I wear this costume here, will you let me drink free all night? And they're like, Yep, I'm like, okay. So I left and went back, got the costume, and I went with bells on to the bar, and they were like, You really did it. I'm like, Yep, give me my drinks.
+
+[8:43] Because, you know, I didn't have any money, you know, grads didn't. Anyway. Uh, so that's not what we were talking about. We're talking about uh Mr. Molecules coming to our event, which is going to be at Thunderbolt.
+
+[8:57] So uh Mike Capaferi, who's a huge fan of the Spin Zall, and uh brought to you by uh him and Thunderbolt and Kampari, right? So we're gonna uh do this event. What what day is it Nastasi? Do you remember the 19th and 20th? All right.
+
+[9:16] So because Nastasia and I can't just do something normally, we have to be dummies, right? We had an idea. You want to tell them what it is, Nastasia? If you bring a self-carved apple head doll, you get a Booker and Dax spinzall hat. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[9:39] Right? Yeah. You show up. Yeah. Now, by the way, we have permission to take picture of you and us with it, right?
+
+[9:47] But you are gonna receive a limited edition designed by Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. Spinzall 2.0 Booker and DAX commemorative hat. You know what I mean? Plus Applehead doll. What the hat only fits Applehead dolls.
+
+[10:10] Nastasia spent the last 24 hours. Nastasia spent the past 24 hours finding like a cafe press that had miniature hats, like a like a custom doll hat. She didn't, she didn't. She's gonna get a normal hat. Nastasi doesn't like doing t shirt things anymore because people are like, Do you have this size?
+
+[10:28] Do you have this size? Do you have this size? So she's like, one size fits all. No, they they're like, I don't like Gildan brand. I'm XXXXXL, you don't have that.
+
+[10:39] Like, no. We do have uh, I forget, I forget who it is. One of our longtime listeners is a hater of the Gildan brand of shirt. Gildan. Yep.
+
+[10:50] Yeah. I don't like them either. Oh my god. You folks, man. It's a t-shirt.
+
+[10:57] I mean I don't like it either, man. I agree. Oh my god. I like that t-shirt company down in North Carolina. Um Tannis uh Tennis Root or Tannis, I think it's called Tannis or something like that.
+
+[11:08] They're awesome shirts. Okay. What about them is awesome? Gildan is great after eight years of owning it. That's right.
+
+[11:16] Yeah, you're right. I agree. They age well, but they're not they're not good. I actually, okay, I I have to say I do own some fancy t-shirts because I'm moving away. I wear always wear an undershirt 100% of the time.
+
+[11:28] So when I'm wearing a print shirt, I don't care because I'm typically wearing that, you know, when I'm doing something. Uh but like when I'm wearing my normal around shirt, I wear an undershirt, and I don't like wearing cotton undershirts because they they get stanky. You know what I mean? Stinky. They're not the best.
+
+[11:44] It's like I only wear wool socks. You know? All the time. Yeah, I'm wearing them right now, 100% of the time. Wow.
+
+[11:52] Winter, spring, summer, fall. All you gotta do is wear wool. Uh, do you are you are you one of those people that wear like tank tops underneath your dress shirts and stuff like that? No, I wear normal, like just regular crew. And yeah, my and uh my uh my wife is like but the the collar on your crew neck doesn't look very good.
+
+[12:08] I'm like, yeah, I don't care. I don't care. Uh under under dress shirts too? 100%. Well, normally she's like makes me button them up then, you know what I mean?
+
+[12:16] So you can't see them, but the I sweat so much. Well, flash flash floods, yeah. So if I don't wear an undershirt, it's bad. You know what I mean? And I remember we had remember that we had an intern Nastasia who like for some reason, like he had something against and I have a little more sympathy for him now because I've I deal with a lot of you know people with uh sensory issues you know I mean but like uh he wouldn't wear an undershirt under his chef's whites and I was like you sweat through instantly and you're visible to everybody and so like you know that's not like a combination that is good you know what I mean like if you're gonna be in the back it doesn't matter as much I guess you know I mean but if someone's gonna be in front of the guest and they're sweating through their chef's whites it's not the best look I think I don't know so we were like you remember that Stas Yep yeah yeah good old days good old days all right so uh are we gonna limit the number of hats we're gonna once we print them we'll we'll tell you how many we've printed right but so it's not infinity not that infinity of you are gonna come but anyone that does come how many how many you want to do Stas what what's the number what's the magic number you think first how many people what do you think I don't know I don't know 10 five to ten oh more than five more than five and less than twenty ten ten to fifteen I'm we're holding it down what what do you think molecules you're gonna want it no I'm gonna I'm gonna wear the hat although let me ask you this are we getting snapbacks or are we getting like are we getting like uh the the buckle back suckers I you know we can't get fitted hats I used you know whatever I just bought a snap back to rep Connecticut college gonna get the guild we're gonna get the guild in a hat because we can't afford so like like a a real, a real foamy mesh back snapback like truckers.
+
+[14:05] Yeah, there it is. Trucker hat. I'm into that though. I like those. I like those.
+
+[14:09] Like real squidgy front. Like, like it's it's brand new, but the white still kind of faded because it was made in 1983. That kind of one. You know, that hat. It's like it's like it's already been found at a thrift shop.
+
+[14:22] It's like we somehow found a Booker and Dax Spinsall 2.0 hat at a thrift shop and bought it for you, like that kind of thing. It was a bunch of dead stock. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And oh, that should be our next company, Nastasia, Deadstock.
+
+[14:37] It was the parallel universe of cooking issues 20 years prior to cooking issues happening. Exactly. All this stuff's already happened once before. It's already happened. Anyway.
+
+[14:47] All right. So when we're at Thunderbolt, apparently we're going to do some version of Negroni Lord, because I think it's like an it might be Negroni weekend. Is that what she said, Nastasia? I don't remember. Yeah.
+
+[14:58] And we're gonna eat at Cato. Yeah. Shout out to Austin. Yeah, and uh one of his bartenders just either won something or is up for something. But it just flashed by my feed, and I don't know how to get back to things.
+
+[15:11] Are you guys like that? Once I see something on Instagram, if I don't stop it, I I don't know how to get back to it. And also, like I don't read stories fast enough for them to make sense for me. So like by the time I know what's happening, they're gone. Does this happen to you?
+
+[15:23] Or is it just me? Yeah, it does happen to me. No, that happens to me too. Yeah. I mean, but they get they do that on purpose, right?
+
+[15:30] I guess. Like you're they're not acting, it's not about it's Instagram, it's not thinkagram, right? You're not supposed to be thinking about what's going on. I don't know, you know, like they don't let you sit there and uh by the way, Dax's school, Connecticut College, New London, small, tiny liberal arts college. Uh they're a mascot.
+
+[15:51] You ready for it? Did I say this already? Camels. Camels. Oh.
+
+[15:56] Camels. The look on your face is the look in my mind. Interesting choice. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[16:03] You know how many camels there are in New London? Zero. I mean, maybe there's a zoo. I don't know. Maybe someone owns a you know a llama is kin to a cannel camel.
+
+[16:12] It's a it's a it's a camelid. It's a it's uh that's just a bad choice of a mascot. I'm gonna say it. Okay, so it gets even dumber. You ready?
+
+[16:20] Oh. So I asked, why is the camel? Now I'm all for it. I'm a camel booster. Go camels.
+
+[16:26] I'm a camel for life now. Camel baby, camels. You know what I mean? It's a Nescaq school, you know what I mean? Anyway, so they were like, uh way back in the day, uh, they had a coach, I forget for what you know, team, and they didn't have a mascot yet, and they had just started like women and men's team.
+
+[16:44] I forget whether they started as women or started as men, I forget what it was, right? College found in like 1911. And they were like, we need a mascot. And the coach was like, because they were starting to play other colleges. And literally the coach was like, I was just in Egypt.
+
+[16:58] They have camels. I was like, that's your story. I was like, that's that's it. That's that's your story, and you're sticking with it. It's not like, you know, just make some crap up, man.
+
+[17:10] Like that, I mean, on the one hand, I'm like, okay, they're not liars, like they're not willing to just lie to make up a good story. But uh, yeah. I mean, like that's you know, it's not as bad as you know what, you know what our high school mascot was? You ready for it? Now remember, this is for football.
+
+[17:28] This is like our fight mascot, right? Lacrosse, all that stuff. Quaker. Quaker. Inherently peaceful person.
+
+[17:37] We were the diplomats like in college. It's such a horrible. Let's talk about it. Let's talk. Right?
+
+[17:44] It's so stupid. We were the same. He's founded by Ben Franklin and John Marshall. So like it makes a little bit of sense, but it was still not very good. Down this hell.
+
+[17:50] What were you, Joe? In high school were the paladins. What's a paladin again? Is that like a uh a bard? Uh yeah, yeah, kind of like riding on a horse where they're holding the staff.
+
+[18:02] The flag of the rain. College, I was a gator. No, that makes sense. They're me, you know, mean and stupid. Like you want, like you want to be afraid of whoever is coming at you in a game.
+
+[18:15] You want, you know, mean and stupid and big teeth. Like that makes sense. You know what I mean? You know, I never went to a University of Florida football game. I bought the tickets and I sold them to and I made a fortune.
+
+[18:26] That's good. I sold a parking spot from my front of my apartment, too. Really? Mm-hmm. So are you also, do you buy Taylor Swift tickets and then scalp them for money?
+
+[18:36] I don't have time for that anymore. I mean I do love the idea. I mean I tried. Oh my god. You guys are the problem.
+
+[18:44] I love that. I love it. Uh oh yeah, that's right. All right. So Dax was uh well on you know, when he's going up to college, he's like, I need to get a uh uh a portable big speaker so I can play stuff.
+
+[18:55] I'm like, Dax, one of your roommates is gonna have a bigger portable speaker because they just will. Because he's got you know three other roommates. He didn't listen to me. I was right. I was as it turns out, I was right.
+
+[19:05] So he came in with like the the mid-size JBL portable speaker that everyone's getting now, and the other guy had like two sizes up. I was like, told you. Anyway, so like uh, but that's not the point. So he he, I guess doesn't really follow, he follows, he's running track. He's on the track team, right?
+
+[19:23] Uh actually cross country. He's on the cross-country team. I don't know if he's gonna run track, he's running cross-country because he likes cross-country more, anyways. So he but he doesn't follow like baseball or any of this much. So, you know, obviously the Yankees suck hard now.
+
+[19:36] Like they couldn't possibly suck more. Aren't they dead last right now? I have no idea. I think they're dead last. I heard it on NPR.
+
+[19:42] This shows you how much I know about sports. So, like, but Dax goes to buy these ChVL and he's like, Can you give me a student discount? And like the guy's like, no, but I can give you these Yankees tickets. He's like, Yeah, but I'm gonna be gone tomorrow. I can't go to the Yankees game.
+
+[19:54] He's like, I don't know, sell them. So Dax thinks he's gonna get all this money. You know how much Yankees ticket was worth? 10 bucks. 10 bucks.
+
+[20:01] Oh, that's terrible. It's like they're getting relegated to another league. It's like cheaper than a movie, you know? Wow, it's true, it really is. Yeah.
+
+[20:10] Yeah. That is crazy. What is a movie now? Like 15 bucks? 1950?
+
+[20:15] 1950. Jeez on a stick, man. God. Not right. Anyway.
+
+[20:21] Uh all right. So uh what else is going on? Uh oh, so every year stuff, late summer stuff happens, and I have to go do things, right? And when I have there's only one day a week where I can go buy the tomatoes of my dreams, right? And it's Saturday.
+
+[20:43] And so anytime I have to do some crap, like drop off my son at school, or go to uh, you know, whatever, like, you know, go on vacation with my family, I miss the tomatoes. And whenever I do, Ron Benagi, farmer Ron from Stokes Farms, which makes God's, you know, they grow God's tomato, like the Aunt Ruby, uh, you know, German green and the German stripe, right? That those are like, you know, God was like, I made two perfect tomatoes, here they are, right? And anyway, so every time I'm like, oh, you know, I I he's like, You didn't have to drop your kid at school. You didn't have to go on vacation.
+
+[21:22] You could have gotten tomatoes. This is on you. Like, I don't feel bad for you. I'm like, oh man, he's like real hardcore. Yeah, but it's not wrong.
+
+[21:29] So the one week they came in that I knew I was gonna be there, this is like two weeks ago. He I text him, I'm like, Do you have any ant rubies? So, first of all, I mean, if if you've listened to this show at all, you know I love this tomato. It's a big, big green tomato that's green when it's ripe. However, it flushes red on the top.
+
+[21:48] So the top of the tomato is gonna start flushing kind of pinkish red. And as it gets very ripe, the red's gonna start crawling around. It's still green, right? But you'll get like a little like pink blush that goes uh uh around it. Now remember, the pinkness is gonna start at, you know, not at the part that attaches to the plant.
+
+[22:05] It's gonna start at the blossom end, right? Tomatoes always ripen from the blossom end, from the end that's not connected to the plant, up towards the plant, right? So what you want to do to see whether the tomato is gonna is like how first of all, how much of a difference in color ripeness there is between the bottom of the tomato, if you know what a tomato is supposed to look like once it's ripe, because every tomato has a different look once it's ripe, right? So you have to know the variety, what it's supposed to look like when it's dead ripe. And then you look at the bottom and then you look at the top, and you can figure out kind of where in its ripeness scale it's gonna be.
+
+[22:38] Now, also remember, because the tomatoes are uh ripening in that direction, where should how should you store the tomato, John? How do you think you should store? Right. Always store the whatever you call where it attaches to the plant, that little belly button, store that down. Store it down that way.
+
+[22:56] On a paper, if you're buying expensive tomatoes, if you're buying fancy tomatoes. I'm not gonna, we could get Daniel Gritzer back on. I thought I thought we were gonna have him on. He never came on. I thought Daniel Gritzer was gonna come on.
+
+[23:07] I didn't hear about that. I thought we were gonna have him on. We're gonna have some arguments about some crap. We always love having Daniel Global. Yeah, no, we shouldn't.
+
+[23:12] Yeah. From Sirius AIDS. Anyway, you know how he's like refrigerate the tomatoes because he ran a test. Yep. Don't buy if you buy gray tomatoes.
+
+[23:21] I'm not talking about bull crap tomatoes. I don't care what you do with your bull crap tomatoes. I just don't care. Like, you know, garbage in, garbage out. It doesn't really matter, right?
+
+[23:28] Like if you start with filth, you're gonna end with filth. Maybe it's slightly less filthy if it's in the, you know, like if they're already insipid to begin with and they're not really changing because they showed up in a boxcar, like then God help you anyhow. But uh with these tomatoes, right? You put a paper towel out, right? And then you put it, you know, belly button down on the paper towel.
+
+[23:48] If it starts running, it won't develop a lot of like evil stuff at the bottom. When you get it home, wash it, because a lot of these tomatoes are gonna have a lot of these tomatoes are gonna have like cracks in them. When the crack happens, it's gonna start fermenting there, and you and even if it's not fully ripe, you can ferment and lose some stuff. Don't throw the tomato away, right? Carve out that section, but like irrigate it like you would a human wound.
+
+[24:12] Like irrigate that section like you would a wound, dry it, and then if if your apartment or your house isn't too humid, you can desiccate a little bit on that section and like stop the rock from going straight through your tomato while you're waiting for it to ripen up, right? Always buy some that are good for today, some that are good for tomorrow, and some that are good for the day after that. Exactly. Yeah. Uh, because you can only buy them one day a week.
+
+[24:38] Anyways, so the the rubies uh start 100% green, dark green. They stay green, but they get blush on the bottom pink that can shoot all the way up kind of towards the top as it gets riper. I always like it with a little bit of blush. Farmer Ron gets ooh uber bent if you start squeezing his tomatoes, right? Most of them do, yeah.
+
+[25:00] Makes sense. He's he believes, incorrectly, I'm gonna say, right, that it doesn't matter how soft they are. This has not been my experience. So the way around this, don't, it's not a freaking avocado, people. Don't squeeze it.
+
+[25:15] I squeeze every avocado. You squeeze avocados? I don't care what people tell me to do. I can squeeze it avocado. You have to, yeah.
+
+[25:21] Tomatoes are so yielding, unlike an avocado, that you can get a feel for how hard it is simply by holding it. You don't need to squeeze a tomato to feel how hard it is. You just don't. You just you pick. So what you do is in the guise of looking at the bottom, you take it and you pick it up.
+
+[25:40] And as you pick it up, you can feel how soft the bottom is, and that's what you're feeling for. And then when you put it back, hold the uh the belly button end, and you can feel whether there's a huge delta in softness between the bottom and the top, and that'll give you an idea of how much time the tomato has before it's fully done. Anyway, and some years ant rubies are great, and they're always they're almost always great. Some years they're transcendent, and some years they're fine. Most years they're transcendent, some years they're just fine.
+
+[26:08] The ones I had this year, I had them early, but they were already delicious. So I missed it for the past week and a half or so. I'm assuming they're still gonna be good. Uh so I love the other tomato that's really good, although the one I had this year is not the best year for them. It's not the it might be in a week or two, I don't know, but it wasn't the best year for German stripes.
+
+[26:25] So some years the German stripes are actually the better tomato, and some years it's the ant rubies, but almost every year at least one of them is like amazing. And I used to do like mozzarella and the bread so I do, you know, I grind the weed I make the bread. I used to do mozzarella. You know what I'm doing now instead of mozzarella? Because I can't go to Hoboken, you know, all the time or Kennelworth.
+
+[26:45] Uh hobok and mozzarella is like Joe, you've done the Hoboken mozzarella, right? No one ever. Oh my God. Hoboken mozzarella. Jersey mozzarella.
+
+[26:55] So there's like it's like typified as hoboken, right? But you know there's stuff in Kenilworth. I mean I'm sure there's other ones. Uh I'm not you know I haven't been schooled in who's the best since Joshua Joshua Zersky died. So years ago.
+
+[27:07] I'm like someone else needs to redo this. Someone needs to someone needs to recheck out all the old haunts and see who's mozzarella reigns supreme. But it's a different style than we get here in New York. It's not ball based. It's like they're like these like loaves these giant loaves and then you like cut off like a hunk of this giant loaf and it's just like super milky and just like it really is delicious.
+
+[27:33] And I don't I said this on the air before but I'll say it again because it bears repeating I don't want to hear that it's not mozzarella and that whatever you had in Italy is the only true fine just call them different cheeses. Just call them different cheeses because this stuff is objectively delicious. Okay. So it's like it's it's like you know it's not the original thing that you know it's not the original thing. So so what it's incredibly delicious.
+
+[27:59] I love it. But anyway but uh I I get just stracciatella now. You know, like the goop from inside the barata. So good. Because it's good.
+
+[28:06] And you know what? Yeah, what else, people? It's good the second day. Yeah. So like if you get the Stracciatella, if like mozzarella to me, once you've refrigerated it, you've killed it.
+
+[28:15] You know what I mean? Like, I don't even like it when it's like soaking forever. I like it, it's made, they hand it to you. You know, when it's still a little bit warm, you take it home. It never goes in refrigerator.
+
+[28:26] You eat the hell out of it with the tomatoes and the bread, oil. When you get, oh my God, we need some good oil from our boy, our boy oily. Oil can Coleman, Nick Coleman. Anyway, um, eat it right away, and that's it. But Stracciatella, you can you can two-day that.
+
+[28:42] Yeah, two-day it. And it's a great, and it's cheap. Stracciatella. Do you use that at the restaurant ever? I have, yeah.
+
+[28:48] People love it. It's delicious. Safoon, oil, salt, some starch. Yeah, it's very good. Louis DePolo, where I buy it, he was like, you know, you could put it on pasta.
+
+[28:57] I'm like, I don't need that. I mean, I'm sure it's great. That's how I did it. Yeah, it's very good. But yeah, you know, it's good in so many applications.
+
+[29:03] Yeah. Yeah. You know? Tomatoes, that, oil, salt, done. Yeah.
+
+[29:07] That's dinner. That's family dinner. Anyway. Uh I have someone in my family who doesn't like tomatoes. I'm not gonna call them out.
+
+[29:16] It's cause it's just inappropriate. Yeah. Can't publicly shame like that. Yeah. You can't tomato shame, right?
+
+[29:22] No, can't do it. Here's the thing. I don't like melons, right? Except watermelon. You know this, right?
+
+[29:29] I didn't. Okay. Yeah. Like, I don't like cantaloupe. I don't like honeydew.
+
+[29:34] Oh. I don't like honey dew, but cantaloupe, yeah. Yeah. Okay. I don't like it.
+
+[29:37] More for me. Okay. Yeah. Uh but also the better it is, the less I like it. Whoa.
+
+[29:44] Because I don't like the flavor of the thing. So the more it tastes like it, yeah, the worse it is. So like airline cantaloupe, I can tolerate. Because it tastes like nothing. Nothing, yeah.
+
+[29:59] It's just a cube. You know what I mean? Did you hear that what we know as cantaloupe is actually not what cantaloupe is supposed to be? Which is a 17th century still life paint things. They figured that out, right?
+
+[30:12] Well, I mean, unless the art scholarship is a very good thing. Some type of Ren brand. Yeah, exactly. Uh no, I I believe it was not that long ago. It was like 50, 60 years ago, that the because cantaloupe normally comes from, I guess it's um um uh, you know, Pacific, you know, um, Indonesia, and um that um the the seed, I guess was lost.
+
+[30:34] So they they genetically or what they did something, they cross blend something to look and resemble cantaloupe. Um, but what we know as cantaloupe is actually not true cantaloupe. Oh like how long ago? Like in 80 years ago? No, 50 years ago.
+
+[30:50] So you're saying in like maybe it's a 70s. But so you're saying in the 1920s, there was no such thing as cantaloupe. 50 years ago, we're talking maybe like in the 70s, uh late 60s, early 70s. I'm gonna have to ask my mom. Because my mom grew up like she loved, well, so she was born in 1950.
+
+[31:10] And by the time I was a kid in 1971, she used to say when I was a toddler, I love cantaloupe. So I don't know when it hit. Sometime between there, you're saying? I gotta ask her whether she remembers this pre-cantaloupe era. But I wish they had not done that.
+
+[31:28] Yeah, right. We call it's actually known as musk melon. Oh, yeah, musk melon. Well, I love that word. That's what I call is back when Nastasia used to like to talk about Elon Musk, I used to call him musk melon.
+
+[31:39] But yeah, American cantaloupes are not real. Not real. Well, I mean, they're real. They are a thing. Well, at one time they were a thing, but now they're no longer a thing because the actual, I believe it has to do something to do with the nutritional facts that are part of the fruit.
+
+[31:54] It was such an intense amount that it's not the same anymore. But does anyone grow this other lope? This like uh authental lope or whatever you want to call it. I'm not sure. Uh all right.
+
+[32:08] I read an article a long time ago that also watermelon, like the original watermelon had almost no sugar in it. It like literally was just like a source of water. You know? Interesting. What's the genus on watermelon?
+
+[32:19] Is it pepo? Is it pepo? I don't know. I'll look it up because I love that word. I forget what pe I think it's pepo.
+
+[32:27] Something like that. But like uh so all I'm saying is m one of my favorite words that's not really English, but is cucurbit. Oh yeah. It's such a good word. It is.
+
+[32:42] And you like it's hard because I love cucumbers so much, right? So like the cucumbits are like like all melons, right? All squashes, all pumpkins, and all cucumbers, right? And those weird little like horn melon things that people try to convince you to buy in the supermarket that have no flavor. You know what I'm talking about?
+
+[33:05] Those like yellow things. Anyway, uh, so I can't believe it. They're all kind of related because some of them I love so much, and some of them I don't like at all. You know? Yeah.
+
+[33:18] Anyway. Cucurbit. Uh all right. Why are we talking about that? I brought up something.
+
+[33:27] I was talking about a cantaloupes. Uh yeah, yeah, yeah. So you don't know if we can get this or a cantaloupe. Not sure. Hmm.
+
+[33:33] Where do you say it was from? Southeast Asia? Yep. Hmm. Also, you know, you know what else?
+
+[33:40] Uh I like a lot from Southeast Asia. Chicken. Chickens from Southeast Asia. The jungle fowl. It's true.
+
+[33:48] Yeah. True, true, true. Yeah. Initially bred. John knows this as what?
+
+[33:53] Oh yeah. Basically entertainment. Yeah. Bringing on the ships for cockfighting. Yeah.
+
+[33:57] Fighting bird. First a fighting bird and then an eating bird. Yeah. You know? It's kind of strange, right?
+
+[34:03] Yeah. Yeah. Them's fighting birds. Yeah. It's saying here that not all uh musk melons, or also, you know, obviously we consider it to be cantaloupes to be musk melons, but not all musk melons are cantaloupes.
+
+[34:16] The category of musk melon contains a whole lot of other melons. Honeydew is American cucumbers. Um, I have to read further on about this, but this is I don't know why it's no longer here. Maybe it'll maybe it'll kill you. I know it'll kill me.
+
+[34:34] Um, all right. This is oh, by the way. Uh went to uh Dingman's Ferry. You ever heard of Dingman's Ferry? It's in Pennsylvania.
+
+[34:43] It's nice. It's right on the Delaware, right on the Delaware River. So it was uh my sister-in-law Miley's, who we need to get on the show, Miley Carpenter, yeah. Uh, you know, who she used to she started the Food Network magazine, but now she runs that entire fleet of magazines. Anyway, so if anyone's interested in like how to, I don't know if anyone's still trying to break into the magazine business, but if you're interested in it, like she is the number one person to talk to, like anywhere of all time.
+
+[35:10] Like she is like the like a hundred clearly the best at it. Yeah, you know what I mean? She started, I forget, like, she wasn't like, I guess, the editor-in-chief when they started it, but she also stuck launched Rachel Ray's magazine, which was one of the biggest launches ever. And she launched the Food Network magazine, and it was like the biggest food magazine launch all times. You know what I mean?
+
+[35:29] And for some reason, I don't understand it, but Miley has always had this ability to just write. First of all, she's like incredibly quick. She doesn't write the stuff anymore, obviously, because she's, you know, way above that. But she's like incredibly quick at like figuring out what people are gonna want to read for whatever the audience is. Like she's a freaking genius of it.
+
+[35:50] I had her punch up the original uh stuff for the Museum of Food and Drink back in the day. Oh, nice. Yeah. So uh yeah, she's the best. We gotta have her on.
+
+[35:57] Anyway, so I'm in Dingman celebrating her birthday, and uh they had a fire pit, right? So have you seen these fire pit conversions where they put a grill that swings over the fire pit? Okay. Now they had it on flag stone, right? So I pre-I I bought, you know, a bunch of ribeyes, and I cut out uh like I do, I cut out the meat, and you know how a ribeye has that line of cartilage?
+
+[36:22] You know how like where the decal thing separates off, there's that line that sometimes has a little bit of cartilage or connective tissue, and it always has silver skin in there and like some extra fat that's not really intramuscular. You know, I'm can you guys picture what I'm talking about? Yeah. Yeah. So what I typically do is I will take a knife and I'll I'll de-deckle it and then I'll remove all of that and then anything that I don't like, connective tissue, and then I'll just meet glue it back into a into like a like perfect ribeye, right?
+
+[36:51] So no matter where it came from in the rib, I can I have it connective tissue free, and every slice is gonna eat well. They're not gonna ever have your knife pull a string, you know, uh uh of connective tissue and like never happens. So anyway, so I I low temped, I meat glued it, low temped it, chilled it down, and then brought it, and I was like, I'm just gonna do the off on, off on, off on reheat over like infinite flame. So I did that uh with the and I was like, I'm gonna use the combustion engineering thing that Chris Young, who's eventually gonna come on, I guess. And I stuck it and I was like, he said that it'll work over a fire pit.
+
+[37:28] Now, when I cook with a fire pit people, I'm not like two levels of flame and mm-mm. No. Um and off. And on is like on, like big pieces of wood, and I wait for it to be like a uniform bed of infinite heat, and then I throw it on, and I of course I rendered out some of the fat, and so I poured like rendered beef fat on it so that it would immediately have drippings to go down in. So rendered beef fat, like and the thermometer was fine.
+
+[37:59] The meat was delicious. Oh nice. Yeah, the thermometer was fine, and it was fundamentally in flame. Yeah, you know, like in a wood flame, in like, and it wasn't like you know, a couple of coals. It was like we burnt down a bunch of wood.
+
+[38:12] And it was like, you know, a death, it was a death situation for most things. And the thermometer was fine. You know what I mean? So and the meat was delicious. But here's the problem, and here's what I need to know how bad of a person I am.
+
+[38:27] So the way these things work, you know, for any of you that know my the way I like to cook with I'm an infinite heat, I love infinite heat, right? So like Tandor, I love infinite heat. Like on a cowboy grill, infinite heat. So it's cause it's already cooked anyway, so I don't care. So you just go off and on until it's heated it up to root, you know, up to body temp or so in the middle so that it's not cold, because that's gross.
+
+[38:50] So anyway, so what I do is when I'm done, I just swing the whole grate off of the off of the grill, right? And when I did that, it ripped some grease on the flagstone. Yeah, John's got that flagstone. Look, but then don't put that there. Like, I don't feel like that's my fault.
+
+[39:09] I don't feel that's my fault. You see what I'm saying? It's like if you go, yeah. Yeah. They're like, here's the grill.
+
+[39:15] Yeah. You know, I'm using it within its design specifications. I mean, thankfully, I didn't get it so hot, because I guarantee you no one's ever gotten this hot before. I guarante I I I was a little worried that I was gonna warp the hell out of the grate. And that then I would get because on mine that I owned back when I had a place outside, instant instant warp.
+
+[39:36] Like just like cherry that sucker up and like warp till the yeah, warp. So I didn't damage the grill itself. So I'm gonna say I'm okay. What do you think? Am I bad?
+
+[39:44] Am I a bad person? I mean, for this, I don't know if the other problems I have, but for this reason, am I bad? No. I think you're in the clear. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[39:53] Now, what do you what do you guys think? Nastasia likes to host people. What do you think? Is this bad? I mean, I'm I'm paying them though, is the thing.
+
+[40:02] I think if it's on the flagstone, you're okay. Yeah, but it stains the flagstone though. It stains the flagstone a little bit. I know, but they but they put it on the flagstone. So what are you supposed to do?
+
+[40:16] Ah, you know what? Thank you, Stas. I appreciate that. Because we know what we tried to do? We tried, we're like, maybe if we if we move the grill over the stain, no one will know.
+
+[40:26] But then you could see the circle where it used to be, and that's even worse. So we put it back, you know? Freaking Airbnbs, man. Freaking Airbnbs. But anyway, it uh I was happy to be cooking over an open flame again.
+
+[40:40] Man, I miss having an open flame and just burning a bunch of wood. Uh someday, or maybe. If you guys buy enough spinzalls. Oh, speaking of which, Nastasia, when's the we do we have a hard last date for when people can buy a spinzole generation 2.0. Uh no, I don't think we have a hard date, but it is coming up soon.
+
+[41:02] So I mean it's not, it's it's around September 20s 20 something, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like we probably like when we're in when we're in California.
+
+[41:16] Yeah. Yeah. It is like it's when we say we don't have a hard date, it's like we're not sure whether it's like Monday the 25th or whether it's Friday the 20th, whatever, like, but it that's when the pre-sale ends. And uh I'll say this. We aren't making enough of them at this point, we're not making enough of them to have them in stock.
+
+[41:39] So if you want one before May or June of next year, now is the time. And to sweeten the deal, there's a thing called engineering build, right? And what engineering build is as soon as they finish the tooling, they they make some of these units that are fundamentally the finished unit, but you know, they can do little tweaks here or there. So uh Nastasia and Quinn and I had the idea. Quinn's sick again, by the way.
+
+[42:09] That's why he's not here. We really hope to have him back next next week. Um, we had this idea that we're gonna do a contest. So our feeling is is that anybody who ordered more than two or two or more units, right, is uh someone who is buying it for a bar program. And if they're buying it for a bar program, they could use more.
+
+[42:31] So we're gonna do a raffle, right? And Quinn had this idea. I don't know how it's gonna work exactly, but we're gonna figure it out this week, where like, you know, you get more tickets in the raffle if you bought three, you get more tickets in the raffle if you bought four, but if you bought two, you're in this raffle, and we're gonna just gratis, send you one of the engineering builds, different from the one that you bought, because um, you know, it can't be guaranteed because it's an engineering build, but it's gonna be done soon. It's gonna be done uh what's the month right after September? October.
+
+[43:01] Yeah, it's gonna be done by like early October, and then we'll, you know, however long it takes to ship it, and we'll we'll ship it to you, and we'll run that raffle uh like right when the sale closes, which is right around when we're at uh Thunderbolt. So that's gonna be your last opportunity to get your stuff in. If you already have ordered one and you want to be part of the raffle, you can just uh I don't know, email Quinn or whatever, figure out how to add another one onto the onto the order. Is that any of that incorrect, Nastasia? No, that's right.
+
+[43:31] Yeah. So like a lot of stuff. We have this like raffle. Maybe we can figure out something to do for the Patreon people also when we're out there. We have the Applehead hat promotion, you know, which I'm excited about.
+
+[43:43] Remember, Nastasia, when you made me when we were doing an event at uh here at Rockefeller Center, and we went to a the thrift store on 13th Street and First Avenue, and someone had like a light, what's that chambray? A chambray shirt with a uh a sheep on the back that was made of sheep's wool and like rainbows, and you made me wear it at an event, and you didn't wear anything weird, but you made me wear that, and I felt real dumb. But then Jean Georges showed up in a sailor boy outfit, but he looked amazing. Do you remember how amazing Jean Georges looked in that Sailor Boy outfit? I was like, God damn.
+
+[44:33] He can be a he's a dapper dude. You know what I mean? I was like, here I am with this freaking chambray sheep on my back, which is three sizes too small, right? And of course, we have nothing on our table. Our tables always look terrible.
+
+[44:46] Nastasia and I always have the worst-looking tables of anyone because we spend all the time making the product and none of the time gussing up our station. That was our MO, like for years, you know what I mean? Which is stupid, because if you gussie up your table, the average, you know, Schmo doesn't really care how your product tastes, right? They care whether your station looks fancy, which kind of blows because that's not what I care about. Whatever.
+
+[45:10] So he's there he is looking fantastic in his sailor boy outfit. And I was depressed about it. I was super depressed about it. I see a lot of topless photos of John George on Raya. On what Ryan?
+
+[45:26] What's with wait was no way? What's Raya again? Yeah. Maybe Jack. Jack Jack is a Jack's a fan.
+
+[45:34] Jack, what's Raya? Uh it's uh it's an invite-only dating app. It's supposed to be the good one, but I can't say that it was very good when I was on it. Really? You couldn't find any uh any any soulmatey people on it?
+
+[45:53] Is it a soulmate thing or is it like uh high-end tinder? High-end tinder. All right. So you're not trying to find anyone, like you're just it's like, what am I gonna do tonight? Let's go on.
+
+[46:04] No, people are looking for people looking for long-term partners on there. Yeah. All right. We saw Nastasia saw um can I say who you saw on there? Yeah, which one how's this gonna work?
+
+[46:19] How how are you guys gonna in code tell each other to figure out whether it's okay to talk about? No, it was Beck. She saw Beck. Oh, yeah. What's your favorite Beck song?
+
+[46:34] Beer can. Oh, that's tough. Yeah. Beer can. Yeah.
+
+[46:37] A lot of good ones. Devil's haircut. Anyway. Uh. All right.
+
+[46:43] Oh, get this. Uh I had a uh I mean Nastasia hasn't spent a lot of time in the city. The three of us that are in the studio here have spent some time in the city this summer. And I've I felt like I didn't have an amazing like New York City summer moment until last week. You ready for it?
+
+[47:02] Okay. I don't think I told you guys about this last week. Did I? Did I tell you about the guy, the drunk guy on the street? No.
+
+[47:09] All right. So this is New York for me. This is what New York is like. So it's hot as hell, right? It's the middle of the day.
+
+[47:16] It's like 12:15, noon, right? I'm walking home with like the most groceries I could possibly walk home with. So like I have like three layers of bags up each arm, backpack on, like arms hitting my side. And I'm going down the street, and unfortunately, I'm on the side of the street with the sun on it. So I'm just baking, right?
+
+[47:40] Baking. Okay. Coming down the street the other way, on my side of the street, is a guy drunk, daydrunk, out of his mind, swerving back and forth, like on the street. Swerves back and forth, back and forth, right? Loudly singing and you know, carrying, carrying on the middle of the day.
+
+[48:04] He's wheeling in front of him a full-sized sewer drain snake, filthy as hell, with the drain snake not fully retracted into the barrel. So this filth spring is like flapping around, and he's passing me on the freaking sidewalk in the heat. That's New York. Yeah. And I was like, the guy's gonna hit me with the cruiser.
+
+[48:36] So like I walked into traffic. Yeah. That's what you should do. Yeah in that situation. You know, so that you know, almost get hit by a delivery truck because that is superior to getting hit with this lower east side sewer drain snake guy.
+
+[48:52] Anyway, that's what New York is like. Man. Yeah. New York. Um, all right.
+
+[49:00] So uh questions. Saison slayer. Now, does that mean that you slay uh that style of beer? I would think so. Means you drink a lot of them or you destroy them.
+
+[49:13] Drink a lot. Are you a Saison person? I mean, I enjoy it every once in a while. Hey, have you bought the Ghent mustard shipped yet? No.
+
+[49:24] I think it's legit though. But you can only get the smallest ones, right? I don't know. I think it's the smallest jar possible. You're like, once you start sending me the uh the Tetris, send me fill up a Tetra, man.
+
+[49:37] No. Yeah. If you're gonna pay the shipping, I don't wanna pay for the glass. Yeah. Tetra.
+
+[49:42] I know. Yeah. Uh, you know how much mustard you would sell if you could buy uh commercial quantities of that stuff? Bananas amount, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[49:48] Wait, can you pronounce that them? Because I can never pronounce it. It's like Tiranten Vernot. Um Saison Slayer writes, uh, I tried making the key pineapple pie as was discussed last week. All right, remember so the the the question I got, I forget who asked the question was have you ever done acid adjusted juice and then uh done the acid adjusted juice and done that as the key lime juice in a key lime pie?
+
+[50:13] And I said no, but that sounds like a fantastic idea. Yeah. So Saison Slayer did it. Right? Now, Saison Slayer had a problem.
+
+[50:22] Ready? All right. Try making key pineapple pie. It was discussed the other day, and the filling went super bitter once it was baked. I asked it adjusted as Dave recently ascribed on Instagram, including the Six Cynics.
+
+[50:31] Smart move, Saison. Uh, or do you go by Slayer? I can't remember any Slayer songs. It's probably fine. Can you remember any Slayer songs?
+
+[50:43] I mean, like like a band like Poison, at least I remember every rose has its thorn. Yeah. That's all you need to remember. Anyway. Which was the Christian one that was always like was that striper?
+
+[50:54] Anyway. Uh all right. I asked adjusted as Dave recently described, uh, including a succinic and used Trader Joe's quote unquote cold pressed pineapple juice. I don't know if you know this Saison Slayer, but I also used their cold-pressed juice. I've been testing juices for uh titratable acidity.
+
+[51:11] I've been on a tight, you know what's really boring, John? Titratable acidity. Well, what's really boring is sitting standing at home in front of your sink and doing a hundred manual titation titrations in a row. Yeah. It sucks.
+
+[51:28] Sounds like you're doing that to yourself, though. I'm not doing it for me, man. I don't care. I'm doing it for doing it for the for the people. Because like I've decided in the, you know, like I'm not just gonna like theoretically take someone's bull crap from a piece of you know, from an internet paper because they're wildly all over the place.
+
+[51:43] I'm gonna measure this stuff. So I measured Trader Joe's regular pineapple juice, I measured Trader Joe's cold press. I'm gonna get dole. I'm just measuring a bunch of juicy, and there actually is quite a significant difference in the titratable acidity between the different uh styles. But um, anyway, I use Trader Joe's cold-pressed pineapple juice.
+
+[52:00] Any thoughts on why it might have gone bitter? I was planning on switching to a no-bake recipe to keep the raw flavor anyway, but the bitterness was totally unexpected. I know what happened. When you use cold-pressed pineapple juice, what is there in pineapples before they're cooked, people? Anyone?
+
+[52:15] Anyone? What is deactivated in pineapple juice? Anyone, anyone? What happens when you soak meat in pineapple juice? No one?
+
+[52:27] Protease. Pineapple contains uh bromelin, which is a uh protease enzyme. And that's why pineapple, that's why uncooked raw pineapple juice is a tenderizer and why it makes your mouth feel messed up when you eat it, right? Because it's actually breaking down the proteins on the inside of your mouth. So I believe what's happening is is that you're mixing the uh sweetened condensed milk, which has a concentrated protein base in it, with uh uncooked pineapple juice, and it's breaking that stuff down, maybe accelerated during the initial parts of the baking into bitter polypeptides, right?
+
+[53:03] Because the protein breakdown products, and I've done this before, by the way, I've used uh both uh papane and bromelin to break down uh gelatin in stocks to try to break, and you always get bitter notes. When you break down protein severely, uh unless you have a very specific enzyme. That's why the enzyme Coralase, which was designed to break down gelatin without making bitter polypeptides, it's somehow self-regulated such that it didn't break it down into these bitter tasting, because the longer chain polypeptides are flavorless, but the shorter chain ones can be bitter. So I guarantee you this is what happens, Saison Slater. If you used cooked pineapple juice or even, I don't know how long you need to cook pineapple juice to get rid of the enzymes in it, but if you used uh one that did not have enzymatic activity, you would not have had that problem.
+
+[53:50] Yeah. So uh and especially if you're gonna bake it, just either if you want the cold press, then cook it before you uh mix it in. And that I'm not saying it's a hundred percent certain it's gonna solve your problem, but I'm like 95% sure that that's a problem. Yeah, I mean. Um, yes, yes, yes.
+
+[54:10] Um, uh speaking of problems, so you know uh an error I found in uh in my book. Hmm. Another error I found in my book is that uh when I was quoting, and this goes back to the titratable acidity stuff. So I just did like I don't know, like 20 something vermouths and looked at the acidity level in a bunch of vermouths. And when I was writing the book, I didn't really have a way to test the uh acidity in vermouth.
+
+[54:46] And wine nerds write the they don't write titratable acidity often, they write what's called total acidity, which is always a higher number. Titratable acidity is always a lower number than total acidity, uh just because of the way it's measured, right? Uh so you know you have to choose one thing. I'm doing titratable acidity because I don't have an HPLC. But wine nerds sometimes they'll do titratable, sometimes they do total acidity, just be aware of which number they're specing.
+
+[55:12] But that's something that wine people will tell you often. They'll tell you the residual sugar in numbers, they'll tell you the titratable or the total acidity in numbers, but not vermouth people. And so what I had wrongly assumed is that the acidity in vermouth would be relatively similar to the acidity in the base wine that it's made from. Now, someone tell me why I was wrong. I don't know.
+
+[55:40] No. They fortify it. And the stuff they fortify it with doesn't have any acid in it. So unless they were starting with an extremely high acid uh product, right? You're gonna have a lower acidity thing.
+
+[55:56] So all my numbers were off for the acidity in vermouth-based drinks. So, you know, I took the acidity of these things to be somewhere like uh uh like 0.5 or 0.6, and they're closer to like 0.3.4, right? So it's you know 25% less. So appreciable. So anyway, so that's the kind of bull crap that I am mind numbing myself with uh these days.
+
+[56:20] Speaking of wines, you want to tell people that you're looking? Uh yeah. If anyone in the New York City area is looking for a GM job, uh temperance is looking. Virgil is moving on to brighter and greener pastures, and we're all super happy for him. He's gonna go work for Attaboy, the Atomix restaurant group.
+
+[56:38] Uh, he's gonna be the beverage director there, so it's absolutely great. But yeah, we need someone. So if you're interested, reach out to me on Instagram uh at nihul J N I H O U L J, and I will get you in touch with all the right people. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[56:50] Yeah. And it's a good job if you like this sort of stuff because it is like wine and food driven. So, you know, if then they have they they're interested in having like a cool program. They have a really good buy the glass program. So, you know, um, but they're not like, you know, the the stick is only slightly up the butt.
+
+[57:09] You don't have a no kidding. Yeah, no, no, it's not super stuffy, which is really nice. And that translates into like the labor aspect things as well. Like if we're not worked as hard as other restaurants, like it's it's a good place. It's a healthy place.
+
+[57:21] Right, but all yeah, so but if you want to be involved with some fun wine stuff, but not be all starched up, yes, exactly. You know what I mean? Yeah, the funniest outfits ever from a three-star Michelin restaurant was the the uh Sommelier at La Pray Catalan. Oh they had some sort of weird, they looked like some sort of like they had some like cumber bun that like went almost went over their jacket. It was the weirdest outfit.
+
+[57:44] And I was like, I'm gonna want one. You know what I mean? Of course. Because the guy would look so bizarre. I told you what I want.
+
+[57:50] I'm never gonna get the if like a real Captain Hooks. I want someday. Anyway, I know. Oh, one more thing before I finish the last stuff. So for those of you that know, I I'm not a huge fan of like how much money the Anton Pard Corporation charges for uh software unlocks on their stuff and whatnot, but whatever.
+
+[58:08] The Easy Dens, which is the density meter that I've been using, it's $400, right? And I paid full boat for it, so I you know, I I paid for it. Whatever. It would have saved my life when I started uh existing conditions because when we bought existing conditions, we were given a whole, you know, we part of buying the restaurant was we got their old stock. And a lot of that whiskey and stuff had been watered because they were filthy liars.
+
+[58:34] And we had to throw it all away because we had no way to test it. If I had the easy dens now, I could test all the products to make sure that they were in good shape instead of just throwing them all out. And if you save, you know, four or five bottles of some of this stuff, you know, you're you've paid for it already. And it doesn't take long to test that sort of stuff because you're not testing like titratable acidity. I'll give you another example of how this is.
+
+[58:58] I was testing a bottle of Galliano. Everyone loves Galeano, right? Galliano, delicious for like Harvey Wall. You can't make a Harvey Wallbanger Lloyd without it. You know what I mean?
+
+[59:06] Like that's the thing. Goofy bottle, I like the goofy bottle. So I had a uh a bottle of Galeano at my house, and I haven't used it in a while because it's been a while since Nastasi and I did the Italiano style frozen drinks, which I like. And someone must have left the cap off on it and then screwed it back on later. Because when I tested it, get this.
+
+[59:23] Uh Galeano is something like 24 point something percent alcohol, or high, right? Or more. It's even it was down to 12% alcohol. I measured it with the easy dens. And so, like, all my numbers were coming off wrong until I realized no, I'm measuring the evaporation because someone has left the cap on.
+
+[59:38] So it one reinforced that leaving the cap off of liquor is in fact a terrible thing to do, and that you can check your liquor with the easy dens. So if you have to check inventory for stuff like this, uh, if you're buying an inventory, it is a worthwhile investment. Uh Dan Watson wants to know about opening a cocktail with high balls and seltzers, but unfortunately, I did have time to get to it. I still recommend the Big Mac carbonator and the premix taps for seltzer water, but not for cocktails. Uh, I don't really have any recommendations for keg cocktails uh at this point, although maybe someday I will.
+
+[1:00:09] But yes, the Big Mac is the carbonator of choice, right? McCann, it carbonates. It still does. Mine have been running for over 20 years. And I think we're back next week and the week after that.
+
+[1:00:20] I'm at Harvard. Uh so we'll talk to you next week. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, Newstand Studios, joined as usual with not with John, because John's got uh he's uh rocking the COVID, so he's uh in quarantine in uh in Connecticut. Uh Nastasia the Hammer Lopez is flying over the country as we speak from coast to coast on a delayed flight, so she will not be here. I believe Quinn is still under the weather. Uh we got Joe Hazen.
+
+[0:41] How you doing, Joe? Uh last resort. Hi, doing it. Good to see you on a Friday. Great to see you on a Friday.
+
+[0:47] The last last resort is my man Jackie Molecules, Jack Insley. Yeah. Yeah. So uh where where are you right now, Jack? I'm in LA.
+
+[0:57] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, back in LA. Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited to see you guys when you're here.
+
+[1:03] Oh, that's true. Well, let me let me introduce our our special guest, who's actually a special guest that I've known longer than most people that I know. Like pretty much like my parents and like my college roommates. Like, and that's it. And I guess my brother, but he was a baby.
+
+[1:22] Anyway, uh, Miley Carpenter is here. How are you doing, Miley? Hey, Dave. Hey. Um, so uh before so the way this works, Miley, because I'm expecting that you've never had to deal with this before.
+
+[1:34] I can't believe it's been like 12 years of doing this. Well, I mean, like, no, me, yes, but I mean like this actual format. But like we've been doing this for 12 years, and you've never been on, which is kind of ridiculous. So, what we're what we are gonna do is we're just gonna, usually it's a larger crew because not everyone is either sick or like being tossed over the over the continent. But um, we're gonna just shoot the breeze over, you know, what happens.
+
+[1:58] So, but just to give it an idea of kind of where so your current title is uh overlord of Hearst Lifestyle Magazines, right? No, no, no. Right? No? I thought it was like, no?
+
+[2:10] It's like you run Food Network magazine, which you launched. Yes. Yeah. And you start your founding editor in chief, I believe is the title. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[2:19] And then you're also creative director for No, no, no, not great. Oh, well, what editorial directorial director. What's the difference between I don't know how these stuff is? Well, your other sister in law is a creative director. She's a creative director for HG TV magazine.
+
+[2:30] Yeah. So how's that? How's that being your your sister's boss? Yeah, I'm not we worked it out. Really?
+
+[2:36] Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Uh we're gonna get into all that later. But that's kind of uh, you know, but you've also been a food editor and a reporter, and you know, you went to culinary school.
+
+[2:47] We'll get we'll get into all that later. So uh anyone have any interesting food crap from the past week? Oh, and if you're listening live, which is unlikely because it's not our normal time, you can call in your questions to 917-410-1507. That's 917-4101507. Oh, and the reason Amila and I know each other uh so long is that she's my sister-in-law, just putting that out there.
+
+[3:09] Uh yeah. So, you know, we've known each other since college days. Um, what about you, Jack? You got anything for me? So I've been eating nothing but saltines and bananas and toast, as you can probably guess why.
+
+[3:23] Um stomach issues. Wait, gastro. Oh, but wait, that that that solves stomach issues? Yeah. Well, I mean, that's what they tell you to do, you know.
+
+[3:32] The what do they call it? The brat diet. Um, just to sort of like wait, who's a brat? Like, to me, a brat diet is all sausages. Bananas, rice, applesauce, toast is what it stands for.
+
+[3:42] It's terrible. Um Who came up with who came up with this? Uh uh a miserable person. Um but like in other words, like, did a doctor tell you to do this, or is this like some internet thing? No, no, no, doctor.
+
+[3:53] A doctor told you to. Yeah. No. I don't know your doctor. Okay.
+
+[3:57] So I can say whatever I like about them. Please, please. Yeah. Most doctors don't know squat about nutrition or diets. You know, just because you go to medical school doesn't mean you know about, you know what I mean?
+
+[4:12] I went to art school. I would not take my suggestion on how to properly paint uh, you know, a faux Rembrandt. I wouldn't. You know why? Not a good painter.
+
+[4:20] You know what I mean? Uh I wouldn't take my suggestions on uh how to draw the human figure. I would ask my wife, because she's great at it. Me, I suck. Although I am an MFA.
+
+[4:29] And I think doctors are the same thing. They tell you things, they don't necessarily know what they're talking about just because they're a doctor. You know what I mean? I'm not saying that your person isn't super good at this particular niche thing that is actually a whole field of study unto itself for a whole lifetime. But uh, you know, maybe they're not.
+
+[4:48] I mean, it's clearly making you miserable. Like, I how much faster are you gonna get better if you're not miserable? Does it make you feel better eating all of these bananas? I mean, I'm sure it doesn't make your toilet feel better. No, I'm on your side here.
+
+[5:00] I'm I'm yeah, it's it's it's bad. Yeah, yeah. Damn, I'm sure the saltines are ripping your mouth up, huh? Terrible. I love like a couple saltines.
+
+[5:09] Miley, you like a saltine, right? I love a saltine. Yeah. Because like a couple of chews of that like and like all gum in your mouth and your your mouth cut up and the salt. I mean, uh, please tell me you're getting the ones with the salt on top.
+
+[5:19] Please tell me you're getting the ones with the salt on top. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Do you know uh the local supermarket, which is called the Fine Fair, which is misnamed, right? Uh, they uh it's fine, actually, whatever. Uh they once had them on sale, but they had the entire like aisle was the unsalted ones.
+
+[5:36] Who wants those? No. Who wants them? Unless you actually have a problem, you want the salt. That's just my feeling.
+
+[5:43] Anyway, uh you eat like maybe like you're watching something, I can take a half a sleeve of saltines down. If I have cheese, I could take down infinity saltines. That's the old McSorle's. Mile, you ever go to mix Orleans? Yeah.
+
+[5:53] You have it this been a while. You have the cheese plate? No. It's a sleeve of saltines, like like uh craft style, like block, white, sharp cheddar, onions and propass, like sliced onions, which Jennifer, my wife hates. You don't mind raw on you, though, right?
+
+[6:11] No. Yeah. And uh, we each have our kryptonite, we just have our food kryptonite. What's yours? Uh melanite.
+
+[6:17] Yeah. You know, your mint and uh Jen's raw onions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[6:22] Uh anyway, so uh yeah, I could take down half sleeve easy, but then if it's all you're freaking eating for starch, my man, I mean, no, wrong. You're like, I'm gonna put a banana on it, and then it's okay. No, it's not. No, it's not. How long do you have to do this crap?
+
+[6:37] And who poisoned you if this happened? Who poisoned you? Sort of like a it's like a control experiment. It's kind of like what, you know, right? I'm I'm pretty much at the end of my rope, though, to be honest with you.
+
+[6:49] You know, and they're not exactly accurate, but you know you can just go get like a blood test, right? And they'll test you to see what you're actually freaking. Uh what's it called too? Um, that's what I'm looking for. Sensitive.
+
+[7:00] No, it doesn't always show right. But they can do blood tests for a lot of allergies. And they can do arm tests for allergens. They can do all these tests for things that you're allergic to. Whatever, man.
+
+[7:11] Good luck with it. How long do you gotta be on this? I'm giving up soon. Sweet. How do you have since you're in LA?
+
+[7:14] Well, I guess they don't grow bananas there. Have you had any interesting bananas or is it all Cavendish? You're like, not only not only am I going to only eat bananas, it's gonna be strictly monoculture bananas. Is that part of the diet? It has to be monoculture.
+
+[7:30] It has to be monoculture, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Western medicine for you, huh?
+
+[7:38] Joy. So wait, so let me get this one more time. I apologize. It's bananas, saltines. I always get the letters wrong.
+
+[7:44] I think it's like bread and avocado. I can't remember what that is. Oh, that sounds good. Yeah, I like bee bread. If you put bread and avocado in it, you're getting close as long as you can salt and pepper that.
+
+[7:53] It smells brat. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Miley's got a better one for you. Yeah.
+
+[7:58] What should R be? Price is what they say. It's like blend, right, right? You need uh something in there that uh you need something that's crunchy but not dry. Like some sort of like a lettuce or a vegetable in there.
+
+[8:12] It's something that is crunchy but not dry. That one of the things that's missing. It also seems like there's no acid. Like Jean-Georges could not make a diet out of this. Like Jean-George, you know, always always like some acid in his cuisine.
+
+[8:25] You know what I mean? Uh like uh, yeah. What would you put in this crunchy, Miley? That you think would be not what'd you say, wet and crunchy? But not dr not saltine crunchy.
+
+[8:36] Something that's not gonna dry you out, but has crunched. Uh yeah, but like radish is a lot. If uh if the only thing you're eating that's crunchy and moist is a radish, that's a lot. Oh god. Oh my god.
+
+[8:50] They're like, ooh, are you a fan of the raw starch? You know what I like? A lot of raw starch. You know what I mean? That's why I don't like uh pea shoots.
+
+[8:59] Because to me, they taste too starchy unless they're cooked. You know what I mean? I don't like raw starch. My mom used to eat raw potatoes when she was prepping in the kitchen. Like, not like a a boat ton of them, but like she'd be like, and I was like, Ma.
+
+[9:13] She's like, try it. I'm like, Ma, that sucks. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's like an under-ripe apple.
+
+[9:17] You know how when you bite into an underripe apple is too starchy? This is why, by the way, when you buy early season apples at the farmer's market, the early season apples, like they get soft almost instantly when they come off the tree if they're ripe. So they pick them viciously underripe. So they're never hyper exciting, early season apples, but like they don't even have a chance to be exciting when they're being picked as just like starch orbs. You know?
+
+[9:41] I guess you can cook them and dump acid on them. In fact, that's why a lot of those early apples like were preserved, so you could have early pie. You know what I mean? Early pie. Remember that time I made a pie with mint in it, and you came over and you called it toothpaste pie, and then nobody wanted to try it because you called it toothpaste pie.
+
+[9:58] I mean, it was. Well, only because you hate mint. All right. Uh well, Milo, you got any interesting food crap from this week? Um, let's see.
+
+[10:08] I hate at the US Open last night. So crown shy chicken tenders. How were they? What are your thoughts on the tender? Well, when they make it, it's great.
+
+[10:16] But it's in like in general, the tender as an item. The chicken tender as an item. I mean, for kids, it's great. Yeah. I like a dark meat, but yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[10:25] Uh so like for some reason, we did it for a while at existing conditions, and it's happened at a bunch of other places. I've seen like family meal, because I guess you can buy just sacks and sacks of chicken tenders, right? So, pre-breaded chicken tenders. So, um, you know, it like if you have it more than twice a week for staff meal, people revolt. They're like, no more tendies.
+
+[10:51] No more tendies. You know what I mean? People freak out. Like for a game? No, no, I mean like pre- yeah, pre-ship.
+
+[10:58] Oh, for game, yeah. Uh, tater tots are. Well, okay. Where are you with tater tots? Because we've done this on the show before.
+
+[11:04] So in the Pantheon of cooked potatoes. Latkas or tots? Tots. Okay. Uh, okay.
+
+[11:15] How bad is an undersalted tot? It's the worst, right? Inedible. Inedible. Right.
+
+[11:19] So you're saying like properly salted. We're talking properly salted. Okay. Properly crunchy on the outside. Okay.
+
+[11:23] So tot versus chip. American chip. Tot. I mean, tots, I don't know what it is. Tots over fries.
+
+[11:31] Tots over fries? Yeah. Tots over mashed potatoes all the time? Yes. Oh, okay.
+
+[11:38] Tots over hash browns. Yes. Tots over home fries. Yes. Tots over baked potato.
+
+[11:44] Yes. Stuffed potato skins. Yes, yes. So tots are the pinnacle for you of cooked potato technology. Yes.
+
+[11:52] All right. What about like massive quantities of sauce and whatnot, like poutine tots and like just a just a tot. Just a tot. And what is your sauce of choice? Are you a ruiner?
+
+[12:02] We call in our family we call ketchup ruiner, even though it's a big thing. I like a ruiner or the Marie's calendar Chipotle Ranch. Wow, that's a brand call. I've never had it. That's my favorite dip.
+
+[12:12] You're talking about the pie lady, Marie calendar. Or no, no, not Marie calendars. It's just Marie's. That's called Marie's. Oh.
+
+[12:19] I gave it. Okay, but I'm like, Pile brands are calendars. No, no, no, it's just called Marie's. It's in the refrigerator section. So uh so uh no one cares about this, but I'm gonna tell you anything.
+
+[12:30] So, you know, Marie Calendar started in California as a I believe in California, I think it was California, as a pie making business, right? And basically put out of business. My favorite pie person, Monroe Boston Strauss, was hired by uh uh Ray Croc or Roy Kroc. What is it? What which was the McDonald's croc.
+
+[12:46] Anyway, McDonald's croc divorced his original wife, was a raging alcoholic, married uh another person whose name was something who wanted to start a pie company. They started a pie company under the aegis of McDonald's. They had McDonald's behind them at the time in the I want to say late 60s, mid to late 60s. And my man, Monroe Boston Strauss was their pie guy. But I can't find anyone that's eaten it there.
+
+[13:11] And they were put out by people like Marie Calendars, who just had a better business structure. Wow. But I don't think she has brick and mortar anymore, right? She I don't know. I know I've never had a few.
+
+[13:22] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, she's dropped a calendar because no one understands. Oh, I'm not gonna have a ranch dressing from a pie lady. You know? The hell.
+
+[13:32] Um, yeah, okay. So let's talk a little bit about this uh let's talk a little bit about this uh I've never been to a tennis game. Yeah, it was my first time. Really? But it was a really good one.
+
+[13:42] And while we were eating the tenders and the tots, a guy super glued his feet to the floor, like his bare feet in protest. Uh of what? Floors? Was he protesting floors? Yeah, I mean, what could he be protesting?
+
+[13:53] Tennis? No, uh, he was there. I d he was protesting fossil fuels. Now I'm all for protest of any kind. Not really, but I mean, like, I'm for protests sometimes, right?
+
+[14:04] Why is this a protest for that? Is it just because they're gonna ask him why are you glued to the floor? Well, he successfully paused the match for like 50 minutes. So now everyone's talking about what happened. Right.
+
+[14:13] So they were talking about what you know, what his cause was, I suppose. I guess. I guess that's his idea, right? Right. It's a lot of people.
+
+[14:19] But it's not like a direct thing like chaining yourself to a tree or like not that I can tell. Or like, you know, yeah. You know, it's not directly. It's just the venue, you know, good venue. Where a lot of people make it.
+
+[14:29] Make some noise. Literally make some noise. They wanted everyone to be quiet for the match, because they're like, shut up, everybody. And they kept screaming. Oh, and then they were like, move, and he's like, I can't.
+
+[14:37] Yeah, three. So there were three, like two of them got sort of walked out, and he remained because his feet floor. But my question is no one's writing about how they got his feet off the floor. Like how like what did they do to remove his feet from the super glue, I imagine. Well, so if it's super glue, super glue is a sinoacrolet.
+
+[14:57] Okay. And it binds So assuming it was barefoot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Sino cynoacolate bonds skin extremely well.
+
+[15:04] So for you know, anyone that's ever like I used to do a lot of model building, and you know, you use it because you know, yeah, instead of stitches. Yeah, so like they yeah, they use that now, right? I mean, they don't use the same grade on the on models, but like, you know, they make this what's cool. Well, what's interesting about you use super glue, right, Miley? Yeah, you can't, yeah.
+
+[15:21] You know, zip kicker? Zip kicker, no. Yeah, okay. So, like what they do is they have these gel-based, uh, so the old, old school, like when I was a kid, super glues, sinoacryl glues, they had to be in very, very small dots because if it had any thickness to it at all, the joints would rupture because they were very brittle. The newer ones that are kind of jelly, more of a gel with a thicker consistency, can bridge larger gaps and they're stronger.
+
+[15:45] And they also take longer to set, right? Because they're in bigger things. But they make this stuff, which was like, you know, in the 90s was like a dream when I was building stuff like in sculpture, is you just put you just goop super glue all over it. It doesn't matter, you can go overboard, right? And you put the two things together, and then you go shh with a spray bottle, and it sets like that.
+
+[16:07] Like that. And so like, you know. What's in the spray bottle? I don't remember what's in the spray bottle, to be honest. But it's like, and so more than 20 times, you've gone and your finger had glue on it and it's glued to whatever it is you're holding, and you're like, okay, so how'd you get it off?
+
+[16:25] There are two ways to there are several ways to do it. One, if you have a lot of time, is you just stick your hand in hot water, it'll soften up, your skin will soften up, it'll soften up a little bit and it'll come off, right? I'm assuming they didn't do that because how the heck can you do that? They could have gone and gotten like an acetone, like acetone and some other solvents will eventually kind of melt it off. Or your skin on your toes, on your feet is pretty thick.
+
+[16:49] They could have just like taken a paint scraper and just been like shunka shunka shunka shunka shunk. Like does the NYPD keep the solvent around? You know, why would they why would they have that? I mean, uh I mean, like, I don't know. I I have it in my house, but I I don't know what they have in uh, you know, where do they play that?
+
+[17:03] Out by Sha, whatever they call Shayne now in Queens, whatever, wherever the opening Arthur Ash Stadium. Yeah, yeah. I saw him speak once in my high school. Yeah, yeah, back when he was alive. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[17:13] Uh good speaker, interesting guy. Yeah, yeah, back when he was alive, obviously. Anyway, um, so uh I don't trust security and or NYPD to be friendly in the way they removed this man's feet from the ground. So I'm assuming they didn't take the most gentle tack. I don't know.
+
+[17:37] I mean, I want the story. I mean why is no one covering this? I mean, I don't know, but like, I mean, like, you know what they have right there is they obviously have like paint scrapers and like I bet you they got like a razor blade scraper. Like you would use for a window. Oh my god.
+
+[17:49] Because you know that they have to scrape horrible things off of those seats. You know what I mean? And off of every surface in that place. So you know that the maintenance people have those scraper blades that are like foot wide, not you know, human foot wide, you know, not long. I'm sure they went the, you know, heel first.
+
+[18:04] If you get the heel up, I mean, if this gentleman was hopefully this gentleman has decent arches, in which case, you know, you're only stuck at like really a couple points. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But if this was a flat footed gentleman, toast! That's also there's not much protection on the that's why that part of your foot is so ticklish because you're like, why is there no protection there? Because it's not really supposed to be hitting the ground.
+
+[18:26] You know what I mean? Unless unless this person spent weeks toughening themselves up by running on gravel without shoes. You know, but who does that? Who does that these days? I I didn't know it was a thing.
+
+[18:36] What running on gravel? No, super gluing your feet to the floor. Oh, oh, uh oh, yeah. Well, look, look, the person didn't wake up in the morning and be like, eh, I'm gonna super glue my feet to the floor. I'm sure they knew they were gonna do it in advance, you know?
+
+[18:47] Yeah. Anyway. And make for a good match. If only we knew someone in the media industry who had a bunch of people who reported uh for them and to them who could ask someone to report this story. Do we know anyone like that, Miley?
+
+[19:03] You know. I mean, you were eating tenders. The pioneer woman's not gonna cover it. Um, HG, not so much. Food network.
+
+[19:10] Yeah, no. Not even on the not even on the like. What about like the letter to the editor? We don't even run those anymore. Really?
+
+[19:19] No. Why? Letters to the editor, because by the time they run their own. I didn't mean that. I meant letter from the editor.
+
+[19:25] Oh, like I need to find out. Okay, I'll get right on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right, all right.
+
+[19:29] Uh okay, did I have anything interesting food wise last week? No. That's actually not true. I did a lot. But none of it's very interesting.
+
+[19:39] I rebuilt my sifter. By the way, Wiley. So another thing, Wiley Dufrain was on the show a while ago. Uh, you know, uh, WD50, Alder, Dews Donuts, um, uh Stretch Pizza. Anyway, uh, they're also married.
+
+[19:56] So this is like a lot of food people in the family. So he calls me, right? By the way, Miley Carpenter has in her possession how many pizza ovens? Oh, I mean, I think six at this point. Six, yeah.
+
+[20:13] Yeah. So for her birthday, we all went to Pennsylvania. I I didn't mention this part of it. We all went to Pennsylvania. I talked about it last week.
+
+[20:19] Beautiful house, right? Yeah, it was. Dingman's Ferry. Yeah. She's like, we weren't sure whether the grill was gonna work out or not.
+
+[20:25] So she's like, I got a couple pizza ovens in my car. You want you want to use one? I'm like, you have pizza ovens in your car? She's like, where am I gonna put them? I like every inch of my house is pizza ovens.
+
+[20:33] That's true. It was the new Uni Electric. Yeah, he likes it. All right. Uh well, okay, you might as well get this out of the way now.
+
+[20:40] So now you know what? We'll get to it later. Like I think what was it? No, no, I was gonna say, like, so uh, like someone in our in our family like asked you to autograph a pizza book, and we're like, what pizza book? And it turns out that you're out on national TV hawking Food Network's pizza book, which has nothing to do for the past since the pandemic, Miley's house has been like pizza Armageddon, like pizza ovens, pizza books, all the pizza, every pizza.
+
+[21:07] And then out of the blue, Miley's hawking a pizza book. It's not Miley's. I'm like, Good morning, America. Yeah. Talking about pizza.
+
+[21:17] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They called me Chef. Miley's like, his head's exploding. Yeah, uh read the book, and uh, it is not like it's not like Wiley's. No, it's not a technical book.
+
+[21:29] Although, like, okay, listen, so like you're like so. Miley has a couple of major skills. We're gonna get to them uh, you know, in in uh in depth. But uh one of them is that okay, so well, I guess we'll start before we get into pizza. I'll read your little your little thing.
+
+[21:44] This is like why I'm assuming you wrote this. This sounds like this sounds like something you would actually write, right? Did you actually write right? So uh uh basically, like Miley is the best at figuring out how to get the most people, and especially whatever her audience is, doesn't matter what her audience is. You tell her what the audience is, and she will like you could, but like I always wanted to be the guy that they woke up in the middle of the night to ask for like you know, a New York Post title.
+
+[22:09] You could shake Miley awake and be like, we have 13 minutes, we need who's the audience? You know what I mean? Boom. So it's like, you know, yeah. So she writes this uh thing, and then she also is a genius at knowing that you're gonna be pissed, that someone's gonna be pissed.
+
+[22:26] So she goes here. We know many of you have strong pizza POV, and we're here for you. In other words, like, hey, I get it. You know what I mean? Like, you're gonna disagree with half the stuff we say no matter what we say.
+
+[22:36] And so, F on you. And she cuts it off. You know what I mean? And so she's always been amazing at that. In fact, when the Museum of Food and Drink was starting, uh, I wrote up a bunch of stuff for you know, some uh ideas for exhibits, some of which we've done.
+
+[22:51] And uh I handed it to Miley. My Miley was like, boring. And then she like punched it all up, and like, you know, I mean, it took a while, but I mean you punch it up incredible. So if you ever need something, well, you can't use her because you know, she's above whoever, whatever you are, she probably above your pay grade. But if you if you if you ever need something like seriously punched up, she's the one uh she's the one to punch up.
+
+[23:13] But I will take issue with a couple of things. The fourth, literally fourth recipe in this book is a Hawaiian pizza. So, what is your thoughts on Hawaiian pizza? Well, I we were just talking about this because Wiley's talking about putting pineapple on a pizza for an upcoming event. It's just too much.
+
+[23:27] It's too much people, it's too angering. It just angers too many people. Well, I mean, that's Wiley doesn't mind that. Yeah. Obviously.
+
+[23:34] Um, why? You hate it? I don't care. I'm fine. I don't care.
+
+[23:39] To me, a flavor is a flavor. But like this is like a vehicle for whatever you like to put on top. But Wiley and Dave Chang almost punched me once because I said I liked wasabi mashed potatoes, even though they were passe. I thought they think they tasted good and they almost decked me. You know what I mean?
+
+[23:50] It's like I mean And people just like to argue about it. There's nothing wrong with it. Ah, all right. Plus, you know, Hawaii, we should be kind. You actually have to talk nicely about the pineapple.
+
+[24:01] The book was before that, though. Don't try to horn in. The book was written before that. No one publishes that fast either. You can't trash uh pineapple pizza anymore.
+
+[24:09] Oh, that's a good point. I hadn't even thought of it. All right, all right. Well, uh, so given the fact that you're now a bad person, Jack, if you uh say something negative about the pineapple pizza, what are your thoughts? Rate it on a scale of one to barefoot merlot.
+
+[24:21] I don't like that. Uh four or three and a half. Okay, so I you have okay, you come to a party, there are slices of pineapple pizza, and there are glasses of barefoot Merlot, and you have to take one. Oh, I mean, I'll have one of each. I just won't be happy about it.
+
+[24:40] Smoking like a true party goer. Uh, what about you, Joe? What are your pineapple pizza thoughts? No go for me. No.
+
+[24:47] There are two recipes for pineapple pizza in this book. Sorry. One of which uses deli ham. The other which specifies Canadian bacons and is more of a sheet pizza. Yeah.
+
+[24:58] So what are your thoughts on Canadian bacon versus uh versus uh what's it called? Deli ham for a for this. No spam. You didn't want to go full spam? Too salty.
+
+[25:08] Spam too salty. I like spam. The whole point of the book is to put whatever you want on your pizza. Yes, that is the point of the list. So uh that leaves me to another question.
+
+[25:18] So this is a food network magazine book. Yeah. Right. Uh so I think a lot of people don't have any kind of understanding about the food network versus the food network magazine and the food network stars and how this weird constellation of stuff kind of comes together. So, like for instance, this one, like this is basically built on recipes from your in-house experts, not from the stars, right?
+
+[25:44] Right. Well, so Food Network has an amazing kitchen. Like you can see it. You can walk by it now. You know, their headquarters are on 19th and um park, and you can walk by and watch them work.
+
+[25:53] It's very cool. Um, and that's the kitchen for the whole network. So they produced food for the shows there, they shoot some things there, and our team is there, so they're producing all the food for the magazine. So the magazine's just, you know, a print manifestation of the brand. That's that's the simplified version of it.
+
+[26:10] So the stars, you know, we run recipes from the talent, but there's a also a test kitchen with chefs in it who you don't know. Well, you know, you know them, but people don't know them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, who produce the recipes for this? But that's the great irony of me hawking this book is that I didn't develop any of these pizza recipes at all.
+
+[26:29] Um, we just put the book together, you know. So I'm out there acting like a pizza expert. But um, but they are for sure the the, you know, the kitchen, they're they're pizza experts. Right. And obviously they're shooting at like a different group of people than the people who buy the modernist pizza.
+
+[26:45] Well, yeah, exactly. We were looking at what's in the market. A lot of them are kind of geeky, and that's great. There's a market for that. But if you just love making pizza and you don't want to, if you don't want to study dough hydration and you just kind of want to be handed the recipes, you know.
+
+[26:58] Yeah, yeah. So uh, okay, so it's what's interesting, also is like the there are similar recipes with different takes. So that's why I can you could tell they're obviously different people. And some of them, I did a little research, go back to way earlier food network recipes, like you know, food network testing recipes back from like 2014, 2012. So you have a thin crust pizza that is double baked in there.
+
+[27:21] And I think that stretches back to an old food network style of recipe from like 2014 or 2013 or something like that. Yeah. So you're pouring on a yeah. So now, as the person who's, you know, imprimatur is on it, like, has anyone ever handed you a recipe for something like this? Because this is not your first book rodeo at all, like where you're like, no, my recipe's better.
+
+[27:43] I notice when they shot the carrots, they did your carrots and not the carrots that were in the recipe. I notice the carrot recipes. You mean my personal recipe? It looks the carrots on the carrot pizza look like Miley Carpenter carrots and not like the carrots in the recipe. Did you look at it and be like, no, make the carrots this way?
+
+[28:01] Because I don't know if people know this, but Miley Carpenter's roasted carrot recipe is the recipe to beat. I'd have to find it. I didn't know you thought that way about my carrots. Everyone loves your carrots. No, no.
+
+[28:09] Don't you have to ask if people like when you want to tell them how you make your carrot? I know you're like, it's simple, whatever. How do you make your carrots? What do you think? The same way you roast it.
+
+[28:14] I mean, yeah, why are your carrots so good? Is it you buy good carrots? Good olive oil. I don't know. I don't know.
+
+[28:19] I didn't know you loved them. I love Miley's carrots. You know, so Miley is the Miley is the like uh brings out the roasted uh carrots with the tiny little nubbin on the end. So you can you could theory because she brings it out with the appetizer plate sometimes. Yeah, it's true.
+
+[28:32] I like that. I like the I like the roasted carrot with the appetizer plate. Where's the carrot pizza? Yeah, look, that is clearly a Miley Carpenter styled carrot and not what see, like that's on a puff pastry. See, there are pizza people who would have take issue with all kinds of things in there.
+
+[28:47] Yeah, but that's why at the very beginning you tell them to shut up in a very nice way. You're like, you need to kind of shut up. You know what I mean? A little bit. You need to shut up a little bit.
+
+[28:57] Uh let's talk about the binder. I love this. Uh I love the spiral. Lay flat binding, spiral bound. Yeah, just put in a kitchen.
+
+[29:02] You should do it. Uh yeah, I don't think liquid intelligence would work as a spiral bound. And I don't I think my editor's already ready to kill me. Like, like you don't want to introduce that. I don't want to.
+
+[29:12] So yeah, I know I'm real late, but uh how about uh spiral? How about spiral? All right. So uh a little bit about you. You started out, right?
+
+[29:24] When I knew you in college, you were like straight journalism. And you worked, I think while you were in college for uh the Washington Post at Berlin or was that right after? Yeah. Uh Washington Post, you've worked for the Arizona Republic. After college, you worked for the Wilmington Star and the and the Raleigh News News and Observer.
+
+[29:41] Like, you know, newsroomy stuff. Yeah, newsroom, yeah. Newsroomy. And so uh, and you always had a very, very clear, like uh, well, you want to explain like church and state in in like news talk and I could yeah, there's I have a fruit cake story about that. Yeah, oh my god, yeah, go for it.
+
+[29:59] Cla Claxton, right? How did you remember that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the terrifying part of knowing Dave. You remember everything.
+
+[30:06] Uh yeah, my first newspaper job, I was uh we were doing like a mock or we were making a mockery of um fruit cake and just relentless, just going to town on it. And the image we shot was like a woman dressed up like a grandma with a chainsaw going into a fruit cake. And I bought a Claxton fruit cake for that image, and I got the nastiest note from the Claxton people saying, How dare you? You, you know, we sent you that fruitcake. I had actually gone, they did send us stuff, but I went and bought the fruitcake that we used in that image so that I could say to them, I didn't touch your free fruit cake.
+
+[30:45] We bought the fruitcake to make fun of it. So like uh I've like it's it's always been the the case, you've always done everything um very old school, unimpeachably, which is kind of like an interesting take. Yeah, but it's like a new world now, you know? Yeah, it's so different now. Like we're you have to partner with advertisers, people consumers are used to it, they're used to watching reality TV and having people hold up products and say, you know, it's not like it used to be.
+
+[31:11] Oh, back in the when we started the magazine, we would we'd say, Oh my gosh, you can't put a waffle recipe next to a an ego ad. Like we would never do that. Now we're like, we would help Ego and make a recipe using the egos. Right, right. And so that gets that's what I'm kind of curious about.
+
+[31:26] So another little quick aside. So Miley decided to go into, well, first of all, just uh a another aside aside is that if you really want something to be successful, you should get Miley involved. I'll give you like, she's always been able to do like pull off crazy stuff. I'll give you a quick example. She shows up in New York.
+
+[31:49] She decides to move to magazines. She gets a job. A crazy job. You want to describe FYI? Like this job doesn't exist.
+
+[31:55] By the way, by the way, people, this is what magazines used to be like. So for those of you that are like younger in the industry and want to know profligate spending, like here's what it used to be like. Unbelievable. I was just telling my kids about this last night. You could never do this now.
+
+[32:08] But yeah, we worked in the Time Inc. building. I had a corner office with a couch in it, unlimited soda, unlimited snack. And you were like 23 or 24. I was 25, maybe?
+
+[32:18] What was it? Yeah, yeah, 25. Yeah. Yeah, just not. And all the magazines would have like if you stayed, if you stayed till seven, you'd get a car service home.
+
+[32:28] There were just like cars lined up outside, and you could just walk out the building and get in a car to take you home. So of course you work till seven. Umiley had this job, which doesn't exist anymore. So Time Inc. had that whole time life building.
+
+[32:41] They had 8 billion magazines. Yeah, it was just the heyday. It was so great. Yeah, like Modern Farmer, all these things. And Modern Farmer.
+
+[32:48] That's the one you remember. Come on. Also Sports Illustrated. Okay. Sports Illustrated Time.
+
+[32:54] And Modern Farmer. Yeah. Fortune. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Fortune.
+
+[32:57] Anyway, so like, but what they had was this, they they had this program which was crazy. They had their own in-house magazine. Yeah, it's called FYI. Yeah. And it only went to Time Inc.
+
+[33:08] people. It was printed though. Yeah. Yeah. And it only went to Time Inc.
+
+[33:11] people, but that was like a zillion people back then. Like your circulation was bigger than some like normal magazines. Yeah. And what was it, monthly? No, it's bi-weekly.
+
+[33:19] Miley, yeah, that means every two weeks, right? I hate that word. And anyway, so like, but what they did is it was a very small staff, but this was like the feeder. Like if you Miley became the editor of this, you know, editor in chief of this like in-house magazine, but you had access to like everybody. And we made fun of everyone.
+
+[33:38] Oh my gosh, we got called in all the time for stuff we were doing. We your our job was to make it funny. Yeah. So we just, I mean, which you did. They were hilarious.
+
+[33:46] Um but people get banned from the city. We thought they were. I'll never forget. For April Fools once, we uh we dressed up my sister as a monkey and told everyone when they were coming to the cafeteria that there was a new time ink monkey. He was the new mascot.
+
+[33:59] And what did they think of it? And we had all these high-level executives giving us quotes saying, I don't know if a monkey sends the right message. So anyway, so this is what the job, like this used to be a job you could, well, one person could get. You got it. You know what I mean?
+
+[34:13] Um, so anyway, so she moves to New York to have this job, right? And she shows up at a she decides she's gonna stay in our apartment. Like we have a crappy one bedroom with you know an extra futon and no light. So she's gonna stay with us for a week or two while she gets her her footing. By the way, I'm in grad school, my wife's in grad school.
+
+[34:30] Miley is like an early riser, right? So my wife's schedule is like 9 a.m. to 2 a.m. in architecture school. My schedule is like noon to 6 a.m.
+
+[34:40] And so like I'm going to bed right when Miley's getting up. Miley is out for the day by the time Jen is up and around. So we basically didn't see each other. However, somehow every day there were fresh cookies baked. Every day I would wake up and there would be fresh cookies.
+
+[34:53] And so my wife is uh, you know, starts hiding the cookies from me because I'm just eating unconscionable amounts of cookies. Like, you know, I'm getting home at 6 a.m. and you know, eating cookies, waking up getting cookies. So she starts my she starts, she so throws them in the freezer. And so one day, I think it's on a Friday, whatever, when we're all actually together, they both see me, open the freezer, pull out the cookie and just start eating it directly from the freezer.
+
+[35:19] And Jen's like, what the hell? And what do I say? Them's good frozen. Yeah, and we still use it. We still use them.
+
+[35:24] Them's our good frozen. Them's are good frozen. I like a frozen cookie. But anyway, that's not even the point of the story. So for any of you who have ever been in a bad housing market before, right?
+
+[35:34] Like New York, San Francisco, whatever. Miley looks for an apartment for two days. Two days, and finds a giant three-bedroom with like a lot of light, right on a block with a subway for less money than I'm paying for my school subsidized one-bedroom hellhole with half of a window on the second floor. What the hell? Like, and you've always been able to like paid nothing for that thing.
+
+[36:06] I don't know. You've always been able to do this kind of stuff. Yeah. Anyway, so you're at FYI and you decide uh actually that you're interested in food writing, you go to FCI. Yeah.
+
+[36:16] Yeah. You know what I remember from FCI? Uh $25 dinners. Oh, that was very good. Yeah.
+
+[36:22] No, uh, I remember you taught me that when I am cleaning squid to turn them inside out. Oh, yeah, because they curl in on themselves and hold the stuffing in. Yeah. That's you know, I didn't even have to pay all the money. That's a good pro tip.
+
+[36:33] Yeah, yeah. No, you just want to work there instead. Yeah. And then you know what? I don't think I ever once did stuffed squid there.
+
+[36:40] So I never was able to Have you ever used that trick? Yeah. It's a good trick. Yeah. But you know, Booker likes his squid in ring format.
+
+[36:49] Oh, yeah. Yeah. Can't help you there. So for any of you, any of you folk out there want your squid to be nice. Pop those suckers inside out before you stuff them.
+
+[36:57] Joe, you like a stuffed squid? Never had a stuffed squid. Oh, it's good. Sorry for this. What what kind of what kind of uh force did you put into that?
+
+[37:06] I don't even remember. Must have been, I don't know. Probably a single knowing of French culinary people is probably like a seafood mousseline or something like this. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[37:13] Yeah. No one's eating that anymore, let's be honest. Yeah. Anyway. So then you go out to San Francisco, and then you still had your you still had your hard reporter's hat on because you so she's in the food world in San Francisco, right?
+
+[37:27] And she's like, uh, this is some bull crap because a lot of people didn't take food journalism seriously and didn't take really journalism seriously. So you wrote this excoriating article on the food critic out there. It's true. And wanted James Beard for it. It's true.
+
+[37:42] You want a James Beard award for it? Well, it was good. I left. You were happy to get run out of time. Came there, did the story, and then left, came back to New York.
+
+[37:50] Yeah, yeah. And you're happy to be back, and you never, you know, that's it. Yeah, yeah, that was it. That's it. All right.
+
+[37:55] Uh, and then, you know, from there, launched uh, you know, Rachel Ray, which was at the time the most successful magazine launch until you launched Food Network magazine, which was like the most successful, I don't know whether magazine or food magazine, but the most successful launch like ever. And this was when magazines were already on theirone was like, magazines are dead. And you're like, how about I launch the biggest magazine of all time? Well, we launched what the day I think Lehman Brothers went down. It was like everyone's like, oh, bad timing.
+
+[38:22] Yeah, but turned out to be good timing. Everyone was staying home and cooking. There you go. Yeah. But anyway, so like, yeah, so what's that like to have the most successful launch.
+
+[38:32] When everyone tells you your business sucks? When everyone tells you your business sucks, and then you have the best. I knew I knew it was gonna be okay. I just knew it. I knew Food Network was a big enough brand.
+
+[38:41] It's it's hard now. I mean, because we're grappling with the whole industry is just, you know, all kinds of crazy things are happening. So that's that's the struggle now. Back then I knew it was gonna be it was gonna take off. Yeah.
+
+[38:54] Uh well, so what I'm interested in is so you started in like actual newspapers back when people would have newspapers that they would read, right? Yep, yeah. And magazines, print and digital, like into currently what's happening now. And you know, still print books and so your entire career people have been pitching to you in one way or another. So at the beginning, it's people pitching their ideas for you to write about, then it's reporters pitching to you for stories for you to do.
+
+[39:23] And now I'm assuming it's whole magazine teams pitching like magazine concepts to you, and and even people pitching whole like I want to start a new magazine to you. So your whole life you've been pitched to. And one of the things I always thought was funny or like interesting to hear about was kind of since you receive so many pitches, and I'm sure a lot of people who are listening are interested in pitching things to other people. Like what is terrible? And first of all, has it changed at all?
+
+[39:50] Like what makes a terrible pitch versus not? Like, has pitching changed over the past, you know, 25 years or so? And if not, like what are some things that people might not know really tick you off when you're getting pitched, or what's good? Like what do you like? I mean, you often get pitched uh content that you the person clearly doesn't know your brand or hasn't read your stuff.
+
+[40:09] So they don't even have the sense of the tone, you know. But I think the dumbest pitch, which would always get pitched all the time, was like, let's do a sidebar playlist, like in print. Like you can't tap anything, nothing plays. Like it's the dumbest, it's the dumbest idea. That and the other thing I hate is like like the A to Z of what you'll see it everywhere.
+
+[40:27] Magazine packages is like, oh, let's do like a you know, whatever handbook from A to Z. Like, I'm never looking for a tip that starts with an X, you know, like that's not it's like unless you're a xerographer. Yeah, it's a packaging conceit, but it's not actually helpful to anybody. So you also hate false ranges. Like there's stuff that can hate.
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+[40:43] You want to explain what a false range is for those that you'll see it now. Now I hope you see it everywhere and it'll drive you crazy too. You gotta stop it. It's from it's what from blank to blank when there's no clear range. So if you said, I mean, obviously, like from top to bottom makes sense, or from whatever, but like from he ate everything from avocados to tomato, like that doesn't make any sense.
+
+[41:04] What's in between? There's nothing in between. Yeah. But you'll see it all the time. Unless it's like the Simpsons and it's between tomatoes, from tomatoes to tobacco, and then you get tomato in the middle.
+
+[41:14] You're you're not a Simpsons fan, does it? I've seen some. Yeah, not that one. Anyway, uh, but yeah, but it's not like a yeah. So like if you were pitching anything to my in fact, just get false ranges out.
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+[41:25] And you use them in daily, not you, not you mining. But one that uses them in daily speech quite often the false range. All the time. What are some other things you hate like that? Oh god, I I wasn't prepared with my list.
+
+[41:36] So many. So we have a whole handbook at work of things not to do. Well, so what's a that's funny? So what's a helpful, like like I remember you used to get mad when people, this is when you were reporting. You would get mad when people tried to pitch you what your idea.
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+[41:55] You're like, it's my job to come up with the idea, right? Of like what the hook is for the story, and it's your job to put something in front of me that makes the hook apparent. Oh, you mean from press, you mean from PR. Yeah. From from flat from PR people.
+
+[42:08] Like, so like like for PR people out there, like what are the kind of pitches that were helpful? What do you what do you hate? I mean, you used to hate, you'd be like, I can't believe this person's trying to pitch me on this story. We're getting fishbowled. Um, so like, you know, what are what are your thoughts on that?
+
+[42:22] Like, how what's a good way to pitch you to make it not seem like they're trying to force a point of view down your throat? Right. We don't need the story handed to us. We've taken the liberty of giving you our headline and our Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[42:32] We don't need that. We just need good inside info, you know. Got a hook. Although now in the days when there's just so much content being generated. Oh, so much.
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+[42:42] Yeah. Is it like, do you think that that pitch is more like actually works more now because people really just don't have the time to come up with Yes, I do think you're right. Yeah, it depends on how you're how you were. And we most of our stuff's internal now, that's the problem too. Is that you know there are bloggers everywhere for our stuff, it's all staff generated.
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+[43:00] Right. So the odds, yeah, at this point in life, the odds that you see some random person's pitch. So, like, how is there like how like if someone let's say you were back, let's say you were a timeout's food editor again, not in current days, but like back then, right? Back then we duke it out every week with New York magazine to see you could get the scoop on the restaurants like that I know you were so good at it. Timeout was like like uh remember there was no uh this was before everyone went on the internet to get this is.
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+[43:30] Yeah, you had to buy timeout. If you didn't buy timeout magazine in this was like what 2000, when were you there? 2000. Since like 2002. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[43:39] Yeah. So if you didn't buy timeout magazine, you know, unless you could only afford to go to whatever was reviewed on uh in the New York Times weekly food section, right? Uh you didn't know anything. You knew nothing. You know what I mean?
+
+[43:52] And so, you know, you guys used to actually have a team of people that would go out. Well, you would you were on the circular. Yeah, yeah, it's true. Taking all the free dinners. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[44:01] But I mean, uh, no, I mean, that was an amazing service back in the day. Yeah. It had a real, I mean, I mean, uh, you know, uh, old man crying, but it was nice to have places with points of view like that. And you know, it's harder to find you have to find individuals now with points of view and not like publications. There's nothing like that anymore.
+
+[44:18] Anyway, um, but at the time people would pitch you all sorts of things about what they wanted to write about. So if you're getting something like that and someone's trying to break in, they don't you don't know them personally. Is there any way to get into it? Like, is there any way to like actually start writing? I know it's not a good way to make money, right?
+
+[44:36] No, it's so hard. Yeah, but uh is there any advice to like I mean, you just need a scoop, right? Yeah, but then like well, to pitch to a news, like I mean, I'm actually I did that once in the Times years ago. I was like, hey, you want this story? And they're like, okay.
+
+[44:52] Really? Yeah. Oh, what's what was the story? It was about um mana, you know, like like uh in the Bible. And like there's like so yeah, so Beirus Shafiri Saffron King, uh, he used to bring in these things that were, you know, he claimed they were actually like the mana from the Bible, but of course no one knows what the mana from the Bible is, but they are a similar thing.
+
+[45:10] So like bugs would chew on these trees in the desert, uh, a couple different varieties of trees. The sap would come out of the trees, dry up, and then like on like really big swing days, sometimes it would actually fall to the ground, like mana. So it was sweet because it was like this condensed, like tree sap. And uh, so he was importing it from Iran. And I was like, hey, you can buy mana, like from the Bible.
+
+[45:34] And then like that, and and they were like, I forget who was running the thing at the time, Sam or somebody. And he was like, Yeah, okay. And then I almost ran another one on um on Roman chicken, Numidian chicken, and like the the downfall of uh laser, which is like accepted a hang as as a spice. Yeah. But of course, I I had a job in the industry.
+
+[45:54] I wasn't like zero. You know what I mean? Yeah, and there was a point. Well, there was a point to it. There was timely.
+
+[45:58] It wasn't a story that you could have written, right? Right. Ten years ago. Right, because he just he had just started bringing this thing in. You know what I mean?
+
+[46:04] The one story that they don't think they published the chicken wrist. But the one thing that he he so he I also pitched to him when I figured out how to anesthetize lobsters. Do you remember this? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I do remember that.
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+[46:14] Yeah. And uh he was like, you have to prove whether or not the lobsters feel pain. I was like, I can't get inside the lobster set. Yeah. So I called up, like, you know, I called up uh, you know, researchers at Woods Hole and in Maine, and then, you know, a couple of them like talked to me for a while, but then their bosses put the kibosh on it because it's why they didn't want to be on the record saying they can't feel the pain.
+
+[46:35] They or they didn't want to be on the record saying they could feel pain. You know, yeah. It's something that could damage the lobster industry. Because like, you know, this guy had these uh electrodes that he was listening to uh lobster, like b-boom, bum bum, bum bum, whatever lobster heart goes, I don't remember. And so uh I had him throw them in water and like the heart kept beating for like a minute and and and the heart rate goes way up.
+
+[47:01] And so I was like, see, Sam. I was like, this is an indicator, and but then like you know, I it's too much for my own good. I was like, well, it could just be no section, but you don't really know whether it's a mechanistic reaction to the heat or whether or not the lobster well, what does it mean for a lobster to feel pain? And then, like, you know, I had to do all this research. At the time, people were researching on hermit crabs and can hermit crabs feel pain, and I was calling my other, like, yeah, it never came to anything.
+
+[47:24] I spent many, many hours. What was the takeaway at the end? Lobsters feel it or no? It really boils down to what does pain mean? Boils down going.
+
+[47:35] Yeah. Anyway, but the truth of the matter is that when you do anesthetize them, they taste different. So there is a different reaction. So if you knock them out, right? Then you might feel better about yourself and your lobster taste better.
+
+[47:47] Correct. But you get when. Yeah, you get the same effect in terms of so there's a if you taste side by side and nestetize lobsters and not anesthetized lobsters. The ones that have not been anesthetized. Don't know.
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+[48:03] I think he has stress stuff. But you can get the same thing by just like you guys used to do at the French culinary, just killing the lobster with a knife. But the problem is then you bleed out the hemoliths so it can be tasteless if you then steam it and let all the juices out. Does that make sense? Uh-huh.
+
+[48:18] Yeah. Anyway. Enough about uh pitching to the newspaper. But so, like, no advice on how to break into this if you don't have uh already a bunch of bylines, if you're not a known quantity, how to be clean. We just talked about that.
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+[48:29] Like pitch a story that could have been five years ago. Yeah, but do you need to have had other bylines? No. All right. Uh all right.
+
+[48:37] So we got a last minute question from the Discord. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I got some other questions. Yeah, what do you got?
+
+[48:45] So Dave's got the infamous first date bandicotta story. Um, have you ever had any spectacular food failures? Me? Yeah. Uh I mean, you had a food failure on my first I don't know whether I've told that story.
+
+[49:01] She said, I like how he asks your food failures and you bring out my food failures. I've had a billion food failures. Describe your first date with Wiley if you frame. For our first date, my first date with Wiley, it was at Dave's house for our family dinner. And Dave made banyacauta.
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+[49:25] And like, what the hell? I don't know what somehow Dave brings the hot garlicky oil around and spills it all over me. Don't forget the don't forget the anchovies. I'm the ancho. I smelled like oily garlicky fish.
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+[49:40] Yeah. Good first time. And you ruined my whole outfit. Yeah. It was like it was a nice outfit before.
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+[49:44] I was like, welcome to the family. Yeah. I like how I like how your worst food failure is actually my failure. That's nice. It's nice.
+
+[49:50] I appreciate that. Oh no, I've had all kinds of failures. I mean, I I I cut myself on my final exam in school at FCI. That was rough. I don't know if other people know that.
+
+[50:00] Andre Saltner came and saved me. Oh, really? He's a sweetheart. Just very quietly. He's like, I got you.
+
+[50:05] Let me fix my sauce. Oh, he's such a sweetheart. Um real chef chef, that guy. Yeah. Uh Miley Carpenter, I don't care who you are, pastry chefs, Miley Carpenter can bake a jelly roll better and faster than you can.
+
+[50:18] Like, I'm just I'm telling you. Maybe just faster. No, better and faster. Like you could like it's another thing. Like, I'm sure that like you could probably with your eyes closed, just make a jelly roll.
+
+[50:30] Or a muffin. I just made one last weekend. I make a lot of people. What are your feelings on what are your feelings on people not using it? You put ice cream in it, not jelly.
+
+[50:40] You but you'll roll anything. Yeah, yeah, that's true. You've made many different rolled items. It's just uh, you know, whatever. Anyway.
+
+[50:47] Uh all right, let me ask the questions before we run out of time that we have here. Questions from Miley. How do you see the trends in rolls for print versus digital and food uh magazine slash websites? What makes a successful food article or recipe online versus in print? Oh, we talk about this all the time.
+
+[51:01] This is granular for our industry, but I talk about um playing to the strength of the medium, and that's what I was talking about. The playlist like don't put a playlist in print. That's dumb. So play to the strength of your medium. If your medium is print, make it visual and like you don't need like in our Thanksgiving stories, we don't need to have all these sidebars about times and like go get that online.
+
+[51:18] So it's like uh information versus inspiration. So when you're in a magazine in print, you're getting inspired. We want to inspire you to do something. If you need information, you're gonna get that online. So it's like it's just a you know that that's the oversimplification of it.
+
+[51:32] Well, how has information consumption not but like in other words? How has the shift in the major mediums in which we consume information changed the way we consume information in all media? Like how is print changed because people consume a lot of it? That was my point. Like back back in the day, like we were super service, like jam-packing it with sidebars and information, like we you don't need to do that anymore.
+
+[51:53] Right, right, right. You know, but that's like a change. That's a delta. Yeah, yeah, for sure. What's that noise, Joe?
+
+[51:59] You uh you uh setting off an alarm in here? Awesome. Uh Vengroff writes in over the course of your career, social media is another social media, social media has become uh behemoth that has caused all sorts of upheaval in traditional media. Can you talk about how this has affected you and the publications you produce? And are we broadly in a better or worse place as a result?
+
+[52:17] Oh, that's the that's a big question. You mean as a human race? Are we better? Or as a media race, as a media given race? Take it and take it any way you want.
+
+[52:25] I mean, it's been interesting. We you know, you know, we launched Pioneer Woman um magazine in in print, and then years later, we partnered with Re, you know who Reed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. We partnered with her.
+
+[52:37] She runs Oklahoma, correct? She, yeah, but well, and now kind of the world. Yeah. But I mean, like, how big's her ranch? Oh, I don't know, acreage-wise, but it's it's amazing.
+
+[52:47] I just got back from there. It's amazing. She has a her husband has a cattle ranch, but she has this massive business and um, and you launched that magazine too. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[52:55] The print, but print first, and then we partnered with her on the site. And it's been interesting to watch kind of what happens when when that all these worlds come together. So in a perfect world, all these things are doing their job and we're and feeding off each other. Um, you know, but what was the question? Like, are we better off?
+
+[53:09] Are we better off? Oh gosh. I mean, I long for the long for the good old days, but yeah, but I mean, I don't know, but we are better off. I mean, in terms of I mean, I don't know. Like, there's there's no in my mind, there are no hundred percent losses and no hundred percent wins, right?
+
+[53:25] So some things are lost and some things are gained, right? I mean, more things are gained. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, you know, yeah, for everything that you say is lost, you've gained something else. But we just it it's like you have to become an expert in everything now.
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+[53:36] You know, everybody has to be an expert in photography and video and marketing, and like the we used to have like kind of one track, and now you're it's anyone in media kind of has to know how to do all this. Yeah. Uh somebody somebody wants to know whether you think I should uh take uh shrooms or not, but that seems more like a question for Wiley. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[53:56] I apologize, Miley. There's a fire alarm going here, but it's not a real fire alarm. They're trying to turn it off at the panel. So I can see it from my section of the uh fishbowl. All right.
+
+[54:04] Uh by the way, someone this is something you might find interesting. I didn't make this for you because of my you you have uh what's it called? Uh well, I no, it's just because you didn't come to family dinner. I was gonna say it's because you scarred me for life by calling my mint pie a toothpaste pie. So I tried some of my terrible ideas on you.
+
+[54:21] Like, like remember corn pie? That wasn't very good. But you have a lot of really good things to make it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, you gotta try the bad things to try, you know, in a family dinner, you try things out.
+
+[54:30] But recently, so um Alexi uh Bulazel, one of our Patreon people asked whether you could make a key lime pie, you know, acid adjust, how I acid adjust it. Yeah, asked whether you could make a key lime pie, and it's fantastic. That's my favorite dessert. Yeah, but you you guys could totally do it's so easy. Anyone could do it.
+
+[54:47] You know what I mean? What'd you do? You just um you take whatever flavor you like, right? So, like, you know, one of our listeners did pineapple, and like I did passion fruit on Sunday, and you just add acid to it. So, like with passion fruit, if you don't want to do like full on like I did with all the weird acids like succinct and all that, you could probably just use citric acid, which you could get at a grocery store.
+
+[55:11] You take it up to the same acidity that lime has. And so the idea is that you don't have to alter the key lime pie recipe because you can um only you only need to use a small amount of the juice. So you're still only using half a cup of juice, but it still has all the acidity because you're adding the extra acidity. Right. Yeah, it's a great idea.
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+[55:27] That's great. Anyway, so it was uh this person's idea. And uh asking for a friend when frying potato chips and animal fats, and then so you know, from your FCI days, you can say this tallow, uh lard, duck fat. What's the best way to get that animal fat flavor into the chips? Any tips for animal fat frying in general?
+
+[55:43] What do you think? You're better. You you're the fry guy. Yeah, but you know, I always like I did work at the fry station at McDonald's. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[55:49] Well, you know, why did you get fired from McDonald's? Um, because why? Because I wouldn't wear the outfit. I thought it was because like you Oh, oh, the I did get it in serious trouble for making the ice cream cones too tall. Yeah, because you were trying to see.
+
+[56:03] It's actually harder than how high I can. It is hard. You have to really know what your balance it and the kids, so they kids started picking me as they're they'd get in line behind my register because I would make the cones so tall. And then I got in trouble. You're like, well, is it gonna fall yet?
+
+[56:19] Right? Yeah, yeah. Anyway. All right. Let me see.
+
+[56:24] Oh now, here's another one. Another little known fact about Miley Carpenter is you are I've always been a runner. That's true. Yeah. And so one day.
+
+[56:32] Oh no. You're you're running down the river, right? Uh East River. East River. Running down the east.
+
+[56:38] So it's a nice little esplanade there. It's very nice. Right. And remember, I Miley, you do mostly running in the morning. You're an early morning person, right?
+
+[56:45] Uh so who else is out early in the morning? Uh no one, but well, fishermen. Fishing. Yeah. So it's Miley, Miley and the Fisherman, which sounds like uh like a I don't know, like a song or Mile.
+
+[56:57] What do you think, Jack? Is that a song or is that an album, Miley and the Fisherman? I don't know. Some sort of song. I think it's a band.
+
+[57:03] It's a band. It's a band, Miley and the Fisherman. Yeah, okay. Anyway, so, and by the way, she's not, you're not a casual person. Like, you're not running slow.
+
+[57:12] No, no, no. I run really fast, I go fast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I run, yeah, I run. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[57:17] Miley's like, what's a fun run? I don't go fun. Yeah, there's no sex. It's all busy. I gotta get it over with.
+
+[57:22] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and get it done. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, uh, and right, she didn't come to this running thing, like I say lately, her whole life running. Right.
+
+[57:28] Oh, you know, always ran track in high school the whole nine. Anyway, so you know, 6 a.m. Hit right in the face, smacked in the face with a fish. Guy yanks a fish out of the water, bam! Right into your face.
+
+[57:47] And then what do you do? I kept running. Just kept running. Didn't stop. Well, what are you gonna do?
+
+[57:53] I mean, I feel that 99 out of a hundred people would have been like, oh, I didn't want to talk to him. I don't know. I just wanted to get out of there. You had to make the decision mid-stride to not stop when you were hit in the face with a bass. From the East River.
+
+[58:13] That's true. Now the bass that come out of the East River, they're not tiny. No. They're big fish. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[58:21] Yeah. I mean, like, you wouldn't you weren't getting hit in the face with a big thing. I mean, to be honest, I was just glad I didn't get hit with a hook. Like I was like, I feel like I came out ahead. Like if it's gonna throw something back, at least it had a fish on it.
+
+[58:32] I don't know. I feel like I've been around 52 years. I've never been hit in the face with a fish. I mean, I just don't know. You kind of have some bad pedestrian luck, though.
+
+[58:43] Oh yeah. The dog just bit me out of the blue. Yeah, just jumped up and bit you once out of the blue. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, here.
+
+[58:48] Well, you know what it is? I think it's you have so uh you're so successful with these other things that you need. Every once in a while, you need to get hit in the face with a fish to have it like keeps it real. Yeah, yeah, keep it real. Keep it all, keep it all uh all uh what's it called?
+
+[59:01] I feel like that's the one story you decided to bring up. I we brought up other stories. I'll bring up so that here's maybe you don't want to talk about this, but like in the world of artificial intelligence, you have people like uh you have like armchair people who think that they're scoping out artificial intelligence. Do you want to talk about some of these uh uh uh not listeners? Oh, yeah, yeah, no.
+
+[59:25] We had someone write in it, yeah. They'll they'll send us clips and say, this is surely AI. And I'm like, no, this was surely us. No, we wrote that. Yeah, it's so funny.
+
+[59:36] All right, one other one because uh uh uh so are are you willing to talk about your uh not letter to the editor, but uh what is it, uh editor's note that uh caused a run on a restaurant. Are you willing to talk about this? Oh my god. I said uh this has to be fast, right? Um I wrote in my we were writing about like food memories and the the the foods you grew up eating and um this Philly.
+
+[1:00:01] I wrote that this restaurant I loved as a kid that serves hoagies. Um just might I said I don't know I don't know if it's the best uh hoagie place on earth, but I think it is. And some news station said just decided we had called it the best hoagie place on earth, and then like you know, 10 stations ran segments on it. Yeah, but then like they had a line out their door, like they were running out of media. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[1:00:24] I think they still do. Because they decided Food Network had named it best hoagie on earth. Yeah, and you didn't turn anything into a news story, and you didn't want to be like I said I think it is, but okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's again like you know, again, you are you know unimpeachable, and you know, yet someone else can run with it.
+
+[1:00:44] I'm happy for Phil and Jim's hoagies. Right, you're not gonna correct them. And describe for those of you that those of the listeners that have never been to the uh Philly, Pennsylvania area. What is a hoagie as opposed to what makes a hoagie a hoagie as opposed to a whole show on this? There are arguments, but you have 59 seconds.
+
+[1:01:01] What is a hoagie as opposed to a regular, like, you know, what people might get as subway or a it's about the roll and the you know and the peppers and the oil. I mean, you've had hoagies. It's it's a yeah, but like you know, the carpenter family is very hoagie oriented. So if you give them an Arizot hoagie, they just take a bite and they're like not a hoagie. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[1:01:20] It's a very it's a it's a specific combination of things, but Phil and Jim's nailed it and now they're the best on earth. You you need the oil, vinegar oregano stuff. Yeah, yes, it's the dried oregano, I feel like that's yeah that's essential. You know, I never used to use dried oregano. Oh no, it's magical.
+
+[1:01:33] Yeah, I became a yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um I I became pro. You know why Dax? Dax loves it. So good.
+
+[1:01:38] Yeah. Yeah. Uh all right. So hoagie taste, you won't tell us the you won't tell us the secrets. What's the bread?
+
+[1:01:46] Yeah, all right. What's the bread though? Like is it just I don't know. I do you have to go down there and buy it. Yeah, go to Phil and Gyms.
+
+[1:01:51] Anyway, Miley, uh it's uh not wait another 12 years or whatever for you to come back on. Uh appreciate it. Thanks, man. This has been cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues Coming Dee Live from Laurel Canyon. What is this? Somewhere somewhere in LA, right? Laurel Canyon?
+
+[0:20] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh not in the studio. We're in an Airbnb. It's a nice Airbnb. I'm in the room with Nastasi the Hammer Lopez, Jackie Molecules.
+
+[0:34] And Harold McGee. Got Harold McGee. How are you doing, Harold? I'm doing great. Thank you.
+
+[0:40] Yeah, yeah. And uh do we have John uh in uh Joe? No, John. But we have Joe in the booth in the New York booth. John, how you doing, John?
+
+[0:50] Yeah, yeah. Key Chi. Have been here with just Joe. I love you, Joe. Yeah, just John.
+
+[0:54] It's nice being here with just Joe, you know. I know. You gotta, you know, have a little uh you have a little just you bonding time, you know? It's nice. Exactly, exactly.
+
+[1:01] Yeah. Perfect. Lovely. Uh and I think we were gonna have Quinn's, I don't know. We'll see if Quinn uh gets back on.
+
+[1:09] Uh and we'll wait. We have the announcement for my man Quinn. But I want everyone to know, I mean, very few people are gonna hear this before Friday because it's just our Patreon people, but that's actually the last day to buy a new Spin Zall 2.0 for the pre-order. Like ever. I mean, like, so we honestly don't know when the next time you'll be able to buy one is because I don't know.
+
+[1:37] We're like, you know, that way we're not solvent that way. Uh anyway, um, all right, so I'm not used to having like mm you know the majority of the people in the in the room with me. So uh what uh hey John, you're you're over there. What's uh what's gone on in the past uh week in the world of food. I have just finally fully recovered from being sick.
+
+[2:03] I've been out of work for three weeks. I had strep throat, and then I had COVID. Wow. And I gave my mom COVID too. So I was yeah, it's been I've been in full form.
+
+[2:11] Today's gonna be the first day back. Yeah, yeah, hold up, hold up, but so you went from the throat then to the lungs. Different infection. So, like, what's next? You're gonna get some horrible GI bug?
+
+[2:23] You gonna work your way down? Hopefully nothing. Why are you saying that? I'm just asking. I don't know, man.
+
+[2:29] I'm just I'm just just asking. Uh all right. So uh but so like just recently, so you like not even time to have any interesting food, fun food facts. How's the restaurant faring with you being all all sick? Everyone's a little overworked, but I think it's been going well.
+
+[2:47] Yeah, because it's you know new era. They can't get mad at you. Yeah, they can't get mad at you anymore, and that's new era. I know. It used to be like doesn't matter how sick you are coming in work, and now exactly.
+
+[3:04] It's so much better that it's not like that. Right. Except, yes, it's it's it is better for the world that it is like that, but in general, you know, if it wasn't bad for the world, you'd rather be working than at home recuperating, especially like in that weird time when you don't feel sick anymore, but you still can't do anything with people. You know what I mean? Absolutely.
+
+[3:24] That's yeah, it's a real it's a real burn that one. But anyway, yes, it is it is better. Um, and what about you guys in the room? Anything, I mean, obviously, we had a we made a meal last night. It was like, you know, we didn't ruin anything here.
+
+[3:40] We're in someone's Airbnb. Let me ask you a question, John. Um let's say, I mean, I don't I'll just say it, see what you think. They put a cheese knife, you know I don't see very well in the dark, right? Yeah.
+
+[3:54] You know I don't see very well in the dark. So I'm out there in the dark. I'm I think it's reasonable to assume that if you pick up a cheese knife to cut a piece of cheese, that the handle of that knife isn't gonna be so sharp sharp that it slices slices through your like relatively well-callused thumb. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
+
+[4:16] That's reasonable, right? Yeah. Like, if any of you folk out there have an Airbnb and you're like, the handle of this cheese knife broke, maybe I'll glue it together in such a fashion, it's a glass handle. Did you keep it, Dave? I don't know what I did.
+
+[4:32] It's still out there. Oh, good. Okay, because I'll take a photo and maybe we can get it. Oh, come on, I'm not gonna try to get any money out of someone for slicing my thumb because it's just a bonehead move. It doesn't mean they have to be financially.
+
+[4:42] We can save Kempari more money. Well, maybe we can just see what we can try to find out what cheese knife that is. Yeah, and then well, and then I'll get this, John. And you know, like I sometimes go, I sometimes go, I don't know, aggressive when something's not, you know, whatever. So they had another cheese knife that was like intensely dull, right?
+
+[5:01] But that was the cheese knife that I was gonna try to cut this other cheese with. Meanwhile, I'm bleeding. P.S. You know what I mean? I still want cheese, because just because I'm bleeding doesn't mean that I don't want cheese.
+
+[5:11] You know, and I've bald up my hand with my thumb tucked under so that I'm not, you know, dripping blood on people's food and and and whatnot. I pick up the next cheese knife. It's some sort of like, you know, aged gouda, Borinkas equivalent, whatever in the hell they have out here, you know. I don't know what they call it when they import it out here, you know. You know, I'm an East Coast man.
+
+[5:28] And uh the knife just shatters in two. I push into the cheese, and the knife just freaking like blows up like the pieces of the knife everywhere. And again, I'm not using it to pry open a paint can. Like if you're prying open a paint can and a little tip of that knife goes in your eye, that's on you. You know what I mean?
+
+[5:47] You should have gotten a pry bar or you know it's happened to me. Yeah, right? Of course it has. We've all done it. The worst, oh my god, how many of you have done how many of you use Ulfa snap knives?
+
+[5:58] I use Ulfa snap knives a lot because they they're thin, they you can carry them in your pocket, they look like pens, you know what I mean? But sharp knife. But you're always like, I need to pry that open. Don't use a snap knife to pry things open. Yep, yep.
+
+[6:13] Yeah. Also, like that the miniature Ulfa snap knife, the one that's the same size as a small X-acto blade, has this issue where it never wants to snap along the snap lines. So, like the bigger Ulfa knives, like they snap real easy. You put them against a table, you go, you hold your hand over it, you go pop, and the blade stays on the thing. But the the super sharp exacto equivalent one always wants to break at some crazy angle.
+
+[6:38] I still like it though. The holster for them, the actual thing is stainless steel. So it's impossible to get it so enfiled that you can't un-in-filtern it. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[6:51] Uh all right. So let me see. Uh someone let me know if we uh if we ever uh get uh Quinn on the line because he was on the he was he was on the line yesterday, so I don't know. Maybe maybe he thought that because we were in LA, we were moving it up to noon LA time. He was gonna get himself a break.
+
+[7:07] You think that could be it? I'm gonna tell you soon. Alright. So later today we're doing a class at Thunderbolt LA with uh Mike Happiferi, and we're gonna be talking Spinsall 2.0 and all of the magical, awesome things that it can do. And then tomorrow, if you're hearing our voices, there is still time to come to the Thunderbolt Booker and Dax uh party.
+
+[7:31] But if you bring an apple head doll, you will get a creamsicle. Well, is it more road sign stars or more creamsicle? It's like those guys, the the prison workers that work on the side of the road color. Wow. Yeah.
+
+[7:43] So you assume that everyone who's on the side of a road with a jacket is in prison. That's what my mom told me. Well, your mom is not correct. That's just not right. Like, that's like a job that you just get.
+
+[7:55] Yeah. Cleaning the side of the road? Yeah, we we don't like first of all, like not every state is like a chain gang state. I think maybe California is. I mean, man, it's just like So that's the color of this hat, ladies and gentlemen.
+
+[8:12] So if you want to be seen as a chain gang chain gang orange. It's a little brighter than it's a little, it's got a little more of a highlighter tone than like uh than orange jumpsuit orange, I think. We were saying last night it's so low fashion that it's actually high fashion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[8:30] And uh we if you come and bring an apple head doll, uh, we recommend that you leave the plastic crinkly thing in the hat in the hat. Cause first of all, you get this. Wow. Yeah. And secondly, it makes it stand like r real real straight.
+
+[8:50] I don't think you should do like Nastasia did and adjust it five sizes too small and squeeze it over my head, because then you do get a severe headache. Yeah. You're also gonna sign them, right? If you want me to. And then uh, and then uh I I'm not listening I've told you guys I'm not a fan of snapback in general, but I guess in a hat this low five, yeah, like snapback.
+
+[9:14] We can only afford those. Here's what I like. Like a standard snapback is a single large snap, right? On the on the thing. These guys are like, I don't really trust the one snap because it's gonna be so low quality.
+
+[9:25] Just throw in two and that's cheaper. Oh yeah, two rows of snap. Two rows of snap. Double enforced snap on this. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[9:31] So, you know, I don't know, man. Hope we're painting a good visual for the listeners here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you need one of these hats, man.
+
+[9:42] Yeah. Uh oh, we're barrel talking. It's got at least 65% cotton, but I'm sure it's uh post-consumer cotton. So uh we're good. All right.
+
+[9:51] Uh so uh Quinn said, oh Quinn can't be online right now. Uh Quinn said to do the Harold McGee questions first, but unfortunately I don't know of the Harold McGee questions first because I don't have the new questions. So I don't know what to do about this. So Harold, welcome. Have you ever when was the last time you were on the show?
+
+[10:08] It's been uh a long time, right? Oh gosh, I um yeah, maybe back when my book came out. Wow two thousand twenty. Yeah. When the new book came out.
+
+[10:20] That's like three years ago though. Nosedive. Yeah. Almost three. Yeah.
+
+[10:25] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, his his his Instagram now has to have the word smells in it.
+
+[10:31] Yeah. It's like on food and smells. What is it? On food and smells? Uh on food.on smells.
+
+[10:37] On food dot on smells. Yeah, yeah, yeah. On food. How about on smells on food? That would be that's the news.
+
+[10:45] I clearly didn't spend enough time playing with the possibilities. Yeah, yeah. No, but I mean, like you could do like a have you considered doing a double volume set where they're like the same and it's like on food, and then you could like, you know. I mean, nosedive has a different, you can't really package them together because they have an entirely different format. It's an entirely different shtick.
+
+[11:02] It's not a continuation of the other in Smellland. Yeah, yeah. Well, and I was told by my publisher of on food and cooking that it can't be any longer than that. And so that would mean kind of doubling the length. Yeah.
+
+[11:16] Maybe there are ways to get around that now. I don't know. I don't know. Uh all right. Well then uh I'm just gonna start reading some questions, and maybe they're for Harold, and maybe they're not, right?
+
+[11:27] We'll see. Uh from now how do you think you pronounce this? L butts? L butts. L butts.
+
+[11:35] But I don't know. B-U-T-T-E-S. I'm gonna go with El Butz. Yeah, I like that. Yeah.
+
+[11:42] What do you think? Yeah, let's go. Yeah, I mean that's what I would want to be called. Although, like, oh, it could be El Booties. That would be good.
+
+[11:50] Both work. Or maybe it's Butte. Could be Butte. Yeah, I think it's Butte. El Butte.
+
+[11:54] El Butte. That's good. You know, I've never I've been to things they call buttes, but I've never been to like a serious, like tabletop, like close encounters. Harold, that seems like something you've done. You've been you ever been to one of those things?
+
+[12:06] I have not. Because how do you get on top of one of those things if you're not like a climber? Helicopter? There you go. No idea.
+
+[12:13] You know what? I just I feel like we're never gonna get there, Stas. At one point we were like, what do we gotta do to get helicopter rich? Who what do we who do what do we have? What terrible thing do we have to do to get helicopter rich?
+
+[12:22] That's not billions, though. To have a helicopter? I mean, helicopters are expensive to maintain. You know? I don't know.
+
+[12:29] We're beyond even getting a helicopter share. We're beyond like having enough money to like get a blade to go to yeah, yeah. Anyway, uh L. Butes wants to know. Keep hearing about Dave's dislike of melon.
+
+[12:44] Makes me wonder about Midori and as to whether Midori is that green fake melon liqueur, which I just tasted again. And yeah, it's bad. I mean, it's fine though. You know what I mean? Like, so like a like most liqueurs like that to me are like some flavor and then like a lot of sugar and some color.
+
+[13:04] So, you know, it's fine. Like, I don't find it as offensive as a real melon because it doesn't taste like a real melon. You know what I mean? And as I've said many times, the more something tastes like a melon, the more I dislike it. You know what I mean?
+
+[13:20] So uh anyway. Uh wonder about Midori and whether that is considered contraband or not. Hey man, no, listen, I've had people pour me decent Midori drink. Look, a drink is a drink. Ingredients are things within that drink.
+
+[13:32] I learned a long time ago that small amounts of things I hate make things taste better sometimes. You know what I mean? Uh another question related to melons, but different. Is there any way to preserve the freshness of watermelon juice? Fresh watermelon juice is the elixir of the gods, but if it sits for even like five minutes, it just loses all its appeal.
+
+[13:49] Is there a way to keep it fresh or is it just a juice a la minute situation? Thanks. Do you know anything about Harold about watermelon juice and its and its uh lifespan? I've never worked a lot with it because it's I mean, I've made it, but I've never worked a lot with it. No.
+
+[14:03] And and that melon doesn't count among your um proscribed. Ah, okay. Okay. Yeah. I think the problem is that the the main volatile component in watermelon flavor is um something that is created when the cells are crushed and then just kind of either evaporates or reacts with other stuff.
+
+[14:24] So it just it doesn't last. So like melt watermelon jolly ranchers into the juice. Yeah, yeah. Jack up that particular molecule, yeah. Yeah, that's my favorite melon product is yeah, watermelon jolly ranchers.
+
+[14:41] Um I gave this, so like I I see what you think about this. Maybe it's the some of these volatile things and the other melons that I hate, because I've had dried melon that I think is good. And it and by the way, I know a lot of people melons a texture problem. It's not a texture problem for me. So like, could it be something there?
+
+[15:00] Like it's just that muskiness that I hate. Yeah, so the honeydews which m but they don't have as much of the m the musk melon aromas the cantaloupe is fake situation. Are you part of this internet wave? Uh no. That like our cantaloupes aren't actual cantaloupes and that cantaloupes aren't available here and that the cantaloupe that we have is not a real cantaloupe.
+
+[15:26] It's some sort of new variety that's only like like 70 years old or something like this. Well, on this train. Yeah, d uh my understanding uh is that uh cantaloupe melons come from a place in Italy by that name, Cantalupo or something like that. And uh and it's like a hundred years old, 150 years old. And of course, there have been different varieties developed from it, different versions of it, and some of them maybe bear little or no resemblance to the original, but so even the original is only like a hundred years old.
+
+[15:59] That's my recollection. And the one that comes from California that we see in the supermarkets with a uniform netting on the outside and bright orange flesh and that horrible cantaloupe taste. That is even younger, but as from here, and it's not the same as they No, they're they're continuously breeding them so that they'll do better in you know California agricultural conditions, which are not the same as uh central Italy. So are you a fan of cantaloupes? I love a good one, yeah.
+
+[16:33] A ripe one. So the better more it tastes like stuff I hate, the more you like it. Exactly. All right, from uh Skull Van. Uh short version of question.
+
+[16:45] I'm wondering if Dave can share any more details about whole limes being juiced in the Kovings juicer. So the Coovings, the Augur juicer that I use. You ever done have I've done I haven't done have you ever done these experiments, Harold, with full peel juice? No. No.
+
+[16:58] So you are you okay, uh briefly. Briefly. So uh you know the superjuice phenomenon that people like this whole superjuice megilla? Nope. No, all right.
+
+[17:07] So like so, you know, oleo saccharum? Yeah. Okay, okay. So in oleosacrum, everyone got all bent because they're like, oh, you know, the oil's not soluble. You're using the sugar as an abrasive.
+
+[17:18] Yep. All right. So we're agreeing on this. Yeah, sugar's an abrasive. You then add juice to it, and it's quote unquote more stable because so much peel is in it that you don't notice the um what's going on to the juice, which is still aging.
+
+[17:33] You haven't actually made the juice last any longer. You just added more flavors to it. Yeah. So they do it instead of with sugar, they do it with acid. And then to make up for the fact that now it's super acidic, they jack in uh water.
+
+[17:48] So it's water, juice, and peel. And they like it. A lot of people say they like it better. For me, you know, yeah, I don't know, you're making it cheaper because you're adding water to it, right? It's not like acid adjusting a juice, it's like adding water and just like, you know, airzat's juice.
+
+[18:06] Yeah. Are you with me on this? Okay. So I was like, if if what you like is peel, what if you just throw the entire piece of fruit into like a vertical auger juicer? Then instead of grinding up the white part, like literally just presses the entire thing very, very hard, almost like you would if you were muddling peels with turns out it's delicious.
+
+[18:28] Lime is a little bit too bitter, so like you have to cut it 50-50. Uh, but like lemon is great, and you know, I wouldn't use it in every application, but and so like I don't know what to call it, so I call it peely juice. So uh Scullivant was saying about about peely juice. Uh, if I have any more information on it, I've only just played with it. I haven't tested like the range of drinks to use them in and what's better and what's worse.
+
+[18:53] I have stabilized it a little bit, like so. I've hit it with like a little bit of um uh arabic or acacia gum to like uh uh keep the oils like fully in suspension throughout it. Um I didn't want to thicken it too much with Xanthan. Some people have a problem because they I here's the where every juicer is different, like uh like you know, in Rosemary's Baby, every pregnancy is different. Every juicer is different, and so they're all the juices that every juicer makes is is completely different.
+
+[19:21] So like Breville throws it crap because it's centrifugal juice or throws a crap ton of because it shreds and then anything that it shreds, it throws through the centrifuge and so stuff gets through. So people were saying that when they were doing this kind of juice with a centrifugal juicer, which I don't know, I haven't tried it, but it doesn't sound like it's gonna be as good, that it actually the pectin regels overnight and they get like a gel. Um anyway, let's see what uh Sculvan did. Long version. Uh we uh they have uh at Skull Van Distillery, they picked up a Revo 830, which is the one I use, and they tossed limes into it.
+
+[19:54] Uh too oil heavy and bitter. So what they did is is they juiced the whole limes, they hit it with pectin X, they ran it through a centrifuge quickly to do some partial stripping uh of the of the pulp and some of the oil, and then they liked it a lot. They thought it was real good. But I do a lot of partial stripping actually. You know, you want to keep it whole, like you want to keep a lot of stuff in it, but you don't want it like if it's totally clear, it won't shake.
+
+[20:15] Uh-huh. Uh huh. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[20:18] Yeah. Uh all right. Anyway. Uh oh, and Skull Van, Quinn. I know you can't be online at now, but if you can uh hear uh Skull Van wishes you because it's Quinn's if Quinn's not gonna come on, we can just say now, right?
+
+[20:30] It's his 30th birthday tomorrow. Tomorrow. Happy birthday, Quinn. Yeah. So you know, we we happy birthday, Gwen.
+
+[20:38] Yeah. We hope for the day that he can come back on regular, that all of this stuff gets uh straightened out. He just uh sent a question over for Harold. All right, let's hear it. Uh when garlic bulbs are stored for a while, the germs inside the individual cloves of garlic often start sprouting a green shoot.
+
+[20:54] It's often said that it's best to remove the germs from the cloves to improve the flavor of the garlic. Is this a myth, or is there some reason the green shoots taste bad? If this is a thing, is it best to remove the germ of the clove even when it's not green, or is it only an issue when it's green and sprouting? So uh this idea that the that the the shoot in the middle of the uh garlic clove is a problem, I think goes back to classic French uh technique, because that's where I've seen it the most, and especially I know that Thomas Keller in his books is very particular about cutting that out before you then blanch the garlic five times in milk to remove all flavor. Exactly.
+
+[21:38] And and I think that's that's actually the the point I would make about the the uh the germ is that you know the relative unless the the clove is really um anemic, that uh center shoot is a tiny fraction of it, and I don't think it's gonna have much effect. I actually, you know, well if if I've got a clove that is kind of green in the middle, I'll I'll pull on it because it's really easy to pull it out and then munch on it while I'm chopping the rest. Delicious. Well, that's what you said to me years ago when I first I brought this up to you years ago, and you're like, you ever have like uh green garlic scapes? And I'm like, yeah.
+
+[22:19] He's like, do you like them? I'm like, yeah. He's like, there you go. You know what I mean? But on the other hand, though, when they what causes garlic on storage to go kind of like is it that it's been bruised and then like the the sugars break down when it gets kind of brown and shrinkly, then that's gross.
+
+[22:40] Yeah, yeah. And it gets really harsh. I mean, it's still garlicky, but harsh garlicky, not kind of fresh, juicy garlicky. How much do you pay attention to and I I know that we never got that guy block on with his garlic book? Uh yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[22:54] Eric Block, yeah. Yeah. Who wrote like the book on garlic, which is kind of like a mishmash of like hard s hard science, you know, with all of freaking sulfur chemistry and like Lauren recipes, right? Yeah. Not as not as good a read as your stuff at all this.
+
+[23:13] Anyway, uh I own the book though. And um it's a good book. Yeah. Yeah. Lots of good stuff.
+
+[23:18] So I mean everybody knows that. So this is something that worried me for a long time because everybody knows that like the way that the garlic is sliced and or crushed prior to being heated has a a large impact in the flavors and it uh that it develops, right? At least this is what I read and what I was told. And then it just got too much for me. I just I was like I I'm not gonna worry about this anymore.
+
+[23:40] I'm just gonna chop up the garlic. I'm not gonna worry about how mashed it is where where are you in this continuum of worrying about how you prep your garlic. I'm with you know if I'm cooking something I don't have time to worry about it. So you know if if I've got um if I have to hunt around to find a masher I'll forget about it and just use my knife and some salt and and bash it. Yeah the salt helps right it's a more abrasive situation.
+
+[24:04] Yeah. I hate my fingers getting sticky when I'm working with garlic. I hate it. It's a special kind of sticky that I don't like. I don't like any kind of sticky but yeah.
+
+[24:17] Uh I've also I'm not very good at the I'm not very good at the mash into a paste. I've seen like you know Anne Borrell's real good at it. She'll like mash like the garlic in like in one or two shots, and then she can just hack a rack a doodle to get rid of the filaments that still exist in the mash I'm just not I've never really uh yeah no I'm not I'm not adept enough to do that. So usually I'd I just use a grater. Oh yeah?
+
+[24:45] Yeah. I have one of these new like uh they're like mezzaluna style paste makers. Have you seen this? No. So it's like it's like looks like a cheese grater, but it's got a handle on it, and it's uh and you spill you you just put it on the on the on your board and you go and it just extrudes the garlic through the holes.
+
+[25:02] You know what it doesn't do? Clean itself easily. It sucker is so hard to clean. Do you remember back in the day when the the first aluminum xyless garlic presses came out and they were huge. Everyone was like, God, I'll buy a garlic press.
+
+[25:18] And then there was a huge backlash, and I don't feel there was ever a comeback. You know what I mean? Like I feel like the backlash was like, You're a bad cook, you need to use a garlic press, you're a bad cook. And then no one was like, why? You know, why?
+
+[25:31] Who cares? Yeah, but they also don't work as well as a grater, right? So that's even more cleaning. You use like a microplane or like a box grater. Yeah, no, microplane.
+
+[25:40] And and uh as long as you do it right away, I think they I just rinse, you know. You just you just whack it against the side of the sink and rinse and all the stuff comes out. Yeah. Really? Yes.
+
+[25:56] Yeah. We'd have to like use ginger or garlic or something like that. Yeah. Oh yeah. You go you grate your ginger too?
+
+[26:01] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know uh I feel it like the microplane has taken over. I okay.
+
+[26:08] There was a rumor going out that like microplanes can actually make damaging fibers because they're so sharp that they don't crush stuff enough, and that like I don't believe that at all. Like for cinnamon or whatever, I don't believe it. I'm just gonna go ahead and say I don't believe that. But I will say that uh because of the you know intense microplane hegemony that's happened in the grating world in the past, you know, 15 years that we miss that other graders make different like graded things. So like the venerable crappy box grater with the punched out, you know, nail punched out stars.
+
+[26:46] I like certain kinds of cheeses like granas on that that grater better than the super fluffy stuff from a microplane. Yeah, yeah, you know? Yeah. Yeah, no, I agree. Um there's some new box graders too, with like you know, different different surfaces on the four sides and and sometimes the bottom as well.
+
+[27:08] So all kind of, yeah. Yeah. I don't know that there's a need for the big hoop box grader. Although I guess it's good for things like I mainly use my box grater for the the rough, the rough side, not the because I have other things that do the other kinds of gradings quite well. You know what I mean?
+
+[27:24] But uh Saladmaster, I'm a salad master man. You know what I mean? Hey, get this. Do you know how we worry a lot about safety for the for the spinz all because like that's our job is to worry about like the interlocks and all this? And how like everyone's like, well, do you know how easy it is to disable the interlock in a uh in a cuisine art?
+
+[27:45] So like my queesen art, I had a great Quison art. I like the Quison art that just has the blank lid top. Do you guys know I'm talking about? Doesn't have the shoot feeder, which never works for me, doesn't have any of that crap, just a blank lid top and a go button. And like uh I don't know, it it broke, and like so I got a new one, but my I those so I have to use the one with the with the click on top with the all the shoots and like five levels of interlog.
+
+[28:10] And of course it fails, it breaks, you know what I mean? And so I don't know, I don't want to buy a whole new thing, and they they all have slightly different ones, so you need to know the exact model, whatever. But it turns out that if you just like click the bowl in without the lid on it at all, and take a butter knife and shove it into that slot in the back, it's on. You know what I mean? Like you don't even have to push real hard.
+
+[28:32] It's just like boom, you know what I mean? There's no way our factory would let us get away with something like that. And I was so angry that we have to jump through these hoops, and here I am with a Quising art, just freaking running it. I can shove my whole face into the bowl and blend, you know, grade it off. No problem.
+
+[28:53] And yet we have to like, you know, whatever. It's brand privilege, you know. It is. You know, well, you know what? It's funny.
+
+[29:01] Uh the if the factory in in their initial conversations with the certification labs, if they say, if the person's like this is a problem, then it's a problem. Like, and you don't get to say it's not. So it really is, like, you know, but if someone like Queas Nard says it's like, well, take it take it to a different take it somewhere else. You know what I mean? But like, you know, they're not gonna do that for you, you know, and neither do you have the money or time to deal with that.
+
+[29:27] Uh all right, do it. Do we have any more uh of those McGee questions? All right, got it. All right. Uh hey, Alex, you asked me about uh God and asked me of a question about a carbonated thing, but I can't see it because I'm I'm going.
+
+[29:38] It's so weird, like I have all this technology in front of it, but yet none of it is working for me. So I I'll try to look at that for for next week. Uh here's one. Uh Harold, you think about knives? Biffed it uh wrote in, I've often noticed that knives out of the box are always wickedly sharp in terms of cutting food items like onions and ripe tomatoes, but they will not cut the hair on my arm, like the shaving test, the good old-fashioned shaving test.
+
+[30:04] Although, yeah, what explains this and uh why can that kind of sharpness never again be replicated? Presumably, I can uh be much more precise and uh and use a uh higher grit than the factory finishing process. I mean, what do you do you think a lot about sharp? How do you sharpen your knives? Uh seldom.
+
+[30:22] Well, I'm sure your knives are sharper than the ones we used last night. Yeah, yes. Yeah, yes, yeah. Uh yeah, no, I I don't I don't do it that often. Um I've got you know one of the easy pull through things things.
+
+[30:38] Oh, I hate those things, so they ruin your knives. Yeah, yeah. But you know, I I share the kitchen with someone else, and um it's just the easiest solution. That is the truth. When you share your kitchen with someone who doesn't care, like it's hard to care about anything.
+
+[30:54] You know, you can't unless you have stuff that's like very like this is my stuff, which is what I kind of do with some of my stuff in my kitchen. I'm like, this is my stuff. You don't, and Booker's like, why? I'm like, be like, it's my stuff. You know, I don't go and play with your subway memorabilia or use it to like I don't I don't fry an egg on your roll sign.
+
+[31:16] You know, don't use this. You know what I'm saying? Um, anyway. Uh I think you know, look, though a lot has been done in the past 15 years on knife sharpening. And uh, you know, a couple of years ago we had on uh the knife steel nerds uh guy Laron Thomas, right?
+
+[31:34] Um and uh so it used to be that there was a lot of guesswork about how sharpening worked, and people would be like, micro serration this, boobity beep bop that, and you know uh he kind of in his book, and a lot of other people have done this, just they just take scanning electron micrographs of what's going on and actually look and then you know just run scads of actual real world tests on the force required for cutting through various things, and people have devised all sorts of like uh how many feet of paper can uh a blade cut through before the paper tears, and they have an automatic pulling machine that does it. So all like all of this stuff has gone from like kind of just uh you know uh mystery and magic to uh you know real, you know what I mean? So you can just go look it up. I don't happen to know the answer off the top of my head, but you can get things pretty dang sharp, especially nowadays. It's easier to get things um arm something can be extremely sharp for something like a tomato and still have a relatively large angle in uh inclusion angle on on the on the on the blade, and but not really be good enough or be you know uh the best for shaving because those are very, very, very whether you want to call it a low angle or a high angle, but you know what I mean, very narrow angle.
+
+[32:51] Yeah, uh and so I would say that um you know there always used to be and still is a huge trade-off between how small of an angle you can get and how tough the uh blade is against you know chipping. Um we were just talking about chipping. I hate seeing a chip knife, but you know, all of my ceramics are chipped. Wiley, my brother-in-law, Wiley Dufresne, uh, as soon as the ceramic knife chips, he'll throw it away. He can't stand it.
+
+[33:19] So he buys a lot of those like cheap Kesera like ceramics, and then as soon as they're chipped, they're gone. But I'm like, I'm not gonna throw it away, right? Do you guys throw away a chip? No. Nope.
+
+[33:30] Nope. Do you ever get huge scallop chips out of the main belly of the blade? I do. The little pair, the little the pedties. Yeah, I still keep it.
+
+[33:37] I break the tip off. Like it has to be like totally hosed when you throw it away. But anyway, um, they're much better now uh at keeping those narrow angles. So if you want to uh shave with it, I'd say um, unless you're super dupe's good, you're gonna want a small inclusion angle. I mean, having shaved with a straight razor for many years and sharpening that thing, they're actually quite easy to sharpen, but I don't recommend it.
+
+[34:02] Like modern razors are so good that like, you know, I remember for years I was like, I had the brush, I had the cup. I was in my 20s. You know what I mean? So like I had the brush, I had the cup, I'm like, this is what I'm gonna do now. I'm gonna be, I have the strop, and like, and I would cut my face every day.
+
+[34:22] My face would always have like those lines, those cuts in it, and like I would get like, you know, I'm I'm a delicate flower, so my my skin is relatively sensitive, so like I would get all rip up, you know what I mean? And then I went back and I was like, I was like, you know what? I don't have my stuff with me. I'm just gonna go get a Mach 3 again or whatever the current is. I was like, damn.
+
+[34:42] Damn. This razor is awesome. And then I was like, why am I doing this? Straight razor, what am I? Oldie timey Dave?
+
+[34:51] You know what I mean? It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. There's no reason. I mean, like, uh, you know, if you're gonna carry it around to like Sweeney Todd people or something, I mean, that's that's a whole separate, the whole separate, yeah.
+
+[35:06] Get this. My wife, okay. So a couple of like a couple of months ago, we don't go out much. We're busy, right? You know what I mean?
+
+[35:14] So she's like, we live in New York. What the hell? Let's go see a Broadway play. So we went to go see parade. All right, fine.
+
+[35:21] Pred. Right. Uh performance was good, you know, whatever you think about the musicals, whatever you think about the musical. And she's like, we should go to Broadly More. I'm like, Yeah, that's that's fun.
+
+[35:29] We should eat beforehand, because crap on that, like trying to find some crap on that. You know what I mean? But anyway, so then she now starts going to Broadway with other people, not me. So she says, let's go to Broadway. And then she's like, Oh, she I forget where she just went, somewhere nice, somewhere fun.
+
+[35:47] And now she's taking uh as a birthday present to my niece, taking just her, not me, Sweeney Todd on Friday. And Sweeney Todd, great musical. I I walk around saying how like, you know, never forgotten and never forgave. I'm I'm I'm all about that Sweeney, though. You know what I mean?
+
+[36:04] Um just show up. That's what Nastasi would do, right? Just go. Just show up. Just buy a ticket and show up and be like, what?
+
+[36:10] I'm here. Because she wants to have this time with the niece. What she doesn't have to see you. That's weird. That's so that's so that's so aggressive.
+
+[36:20] I think you're just gonna put an angry look on your face. Do you get a better seat or a worse seat? But also, why why don't you do anything? Like you can't, you're like, I need the first flight out of LA. Like as soon as we're done.
+
+[36:32] Because now she's going to weight of things that I hack I'm not getting done. And there's literally not enough time for me to get the stuff that I'm contractually obligated to do done. Plus, the dog's gonna piss all over the floor and like all this other stuff. So I just I can't get, I can't, the sack is too small to fit the crap I have to shove into it. So, like, you know, anything that is like remotely like, oh, I would just like to do that, has to wait until I'm either dead or I actually get some of these projects done.
+
+[37:08] You know what I mean? How about this, Daz? You can take my ashes to all the fun places I'd like to go. And uh, you know what I mean? Like front row, swoony Todd.
+
+[37:18] Yeah. So that's the question. So does Nastasia buy like front row and look back and give the stare? Or does she go in the in the super news nosebleeds, and then someone's like, who's that person with binoculars? Oh my god, it's Nastasia.
+
+[37:31] No, she's in the balcony like Statler and Waldorf in the Muppets, you know. Yeah, she's up there on the wing. Love it. Uh from KM, I made corn milk. No, it's not this Monday, it's last Monday.
+
+[37:44] I made corn milk on Monday. It's tasty, which of course KM means that you hate it. Has taste. It's not a taste you like, but it is a taste. In in my kitchen, tasty counts.
+
+[37:57] Yeah. Tasty is your bro tasty. Yeah. Yeah. As you know.
+
+[38:01] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we have we've had this discussion many times. But I can't get around it because I grew up with it. Yeah. You know, whenever we would go out and my stepfather would say something's tasty, I was like, oh, he hates that.
+
+[38:14] Yeah. Because he's not gonna say this sucks. He's just gonna be like, it has taste. Uh flavorful. That's a good one.
+
+[38:22] I've had many things that are flavorful. Yeah. A lot of flavor in that. All the wrong ones. And in the wrong proportions.
+
+[38:31] Yeah. But they're there. They are there. Uh I made corn milk on Monday, it's tasty. I estimated a seven-day shelf life.
+
+[38:38] Today it smells like sulfur, but the smell goes away once it's steamed and the taste is unaffected. Is there any way to eliminate the sulfur odor in the corn milk? And what uh I never think of corn as being overly sulfurous. What do you think is going on there? Well, uh, so corn, one of the reasons corn goes so well in a in a uh uh kind of clam bake situation is that it's got uh dimethyl sulfide, which is what you get off the ocean.
+
+[39:03] So you're kind of sitting there cooking corn along with other things and kind of amplifying that um that uh aroma of place. Um usually that's a good thing. Uh I don't know why it would be so prominent that it would uh be annoying, but it is a volatile molecule. So if you heat whatever it's coming from, like corn milk, then it's gonna go away. But is it one of those things that's made like more prevalent by crushing, or is it is it is it is it present or is a precursor present?
+
+[39:35] Uh that's a good question. I'm not sure. Uh I'm not sure what the origin chemistry is. Um I just know that in in the flavor literature, it is considered one of the most important volatiles to give the impression of corn. Corn.
+
+[39:54] Corn. Mmm, corn. Uh we had someone call in from Iowa, and you know, I don't even think about Iowa sweet corn. I think about you know, Iowa like a lot of corn, but like not corn that I'm eating directly. I'm eating it by eating a pig.
+
+[40:11] Right. You know what I mean? Or whatever. And he was like, Yeah, no, like our sweet corn that we buy there is freaking great. You know, well, I'm all about that Jersey corn, because I live near Jersey.
+
+[40:22] Jersey's gotta have something, right? They got they got tomato Long Island Man knows what I'm talking about. Like uh, you know, they got they gotta have something, corn and tomatoes. Yeah. Anyway.
+
+[40:33] Uh, but now I kind of want like that awesome, like right out of the field Iowa sweet corn. And I grew up in Illinois. Great corn in Illinois. Yeah, good sweet corn. Midwest, yeah.
+
+[40:45] Yeah. Yeah. And so cheap. Cheap. When I go back home, yeah.
+
+[40:50] When did the super sweets come out? Not the half sweets. The half sweets have been around for you know a century and a half or so. But the super sweets, how long have they been around? I think uh like the eighties, seventies and eighties is when they were developed, and then it took a while to get commercialized, but I think that's so the corn of your youth had to be picked that morning, cooked that night.
+
+[41:10] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. For like a nickel an ear. I remember when I was I still remember this when I was three. That w we used to live in um uh what's it called, uh, where Stanford is uh Palo uh was it Palo um Palo Alto or something like that, right?
+
+[41:30] One of those towns right there. Yeah. And uh my parents grew corn so they could have corn. This is like 1972. They grew corn so that they could have the corn and they would go cut it and write it right away steam.
+
+[41:47] Like cut steam. Do you think it's still better as super sweet? It doesn't matter at all because they just doesn't convert back to starch. Yeah, it doesn't convert back. And I I actually find today's corn kind of cloying.
+
+[41:59] Uh too sweet. Yeah, yeah. Um so but it's hard to find anything else. So I have to admit that I haven't done a side-by-side with a traditional uh a traditional year. I think people really want corn to be sweet now, and then it's like the sweet is the base, and then they start worrying more about texture, right?
+
+[42:21] So like it used to be like can you get like an ear of corn that's sweet as an indicator of freshness and like texture was a secondary concern because they were so concerned about getting the sweetness, but now we're more on texture. What do you think? Yeah, I don't know. I I like corn for its corniness. You know, I don't uh it doesn't really bother me as long as it's really got a a lot of corn flavor.
+
+[42:43] So you don't mind if it's gummy? Or do you don't mind if it's not sweet? Gummy g uh yeah, I like I like m more mature ears because they have more flavor. And uh in fact when I go through the bin at the farmer's market, I I look for the biggest ones possible because they're the the most mature. I uh I always just feel the top.
+
+[43:06] Do you don't rip them open, do you? Are you that guy? Uh no. Yeah, no. Yeah.
+
+[43:11] Uh in the seventies we used to drown our corn in butter. It's butter, salt, pepper. So I grew up for years, butter, salt, and pepper, and then I just stopped one day. And is it just because we had s crappy corn in in supermarket corn in the seventies, or has butter gone out of fashion or do people still butter the hell out of their corn, you think? Uh I don't butter the hell out of it, but I love butter on my corn.
+
+[43:36] Yeah. That's something so we in our household there's you know, two plates with corn for Ellie, corn for me. Hers just goes straight into her mouth, and mine I put butter, salt, I I kind of salt row by row. Wow. Turning uh to get it right.
+
+[43:56] Yeah. So but but it's not swimming in butter. It's not it's it's the partnership. It's not uh yeah, butter all over. Yesterday Nastasia was telling me she comes from a rotating corn family.
+
+[44:10] She comes from a uh rotate the corn in the butter and that like looks like somebody sat in your butter. No, I told you no. I thought you say yes. I do. Oh, you come from a rotating corn family.
+
+[44:23] Unfortunately, where like you'll go to butter toast later and you go in the fridge and you can see the stick of butter has that like indent from somebody having rotated corn on it. Yeah, no. It's terrible. No, John, where are you on on uh and Joe? Where are you guys on the rotating corn spectrum?
+
+[44:42] Maybe we long did we lose them? I don't know. Or if we just talking to ourselves, maybe the worst. All right, all right. Well, if if we hear from them, they can they can go in.
+
+[44:53] But you know one of the reasons that I can't have butter that's been rotated, other than the fact that it's terrible. First of all, once the butter melts on the corn, it's never the same again once it congeals back into butter form. It's been debuttered. You know what I mean? It's now some sort of in-between product, right?
+
+[45:09] Yeah, but I kind of like it the next morning. It's salty, buttery, so on uh an English muffin. You wait, you use the corn butter on an English muffin? All right. What if you take leftover corn and then just look like use it like wipe use the English muffin as like a dish rag and wipe off your thing and then toast it?
+
+[45:26] Would that work? I'm not I don'm I'm not getting the picture right here. So I've eaten Yeah, you're taking the butter off the melted butter off of the thing that has been poisoned with salt and partially melted off of the thing. But I'm saying but it's also got uh corn flavor. All right, yeah.
+
+[45:43] I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. But I was no I was saying like it like you know how you have leftover corn and you throw it in the fridge and the next day you make corn salad. Uh-huh.
+
+[45:50] Right? Yeah. So like if you had that, then could you just take your English muffin in the morning, wipe the excess butter before you do the corn salad? Because you don't want the necessarily the in a cold salad, you don't want the butter. Yeah.
+
+[46:02] Wipe it onto the English muffin and toast it. You're good. Yeah, yeah. My problem is there's never leftover corn. Um you gotta overcook.
+
+[46:10] Uh not overcook, but you know, overproduce. Yeah. So uh another problem I have with butter that uh happened later in life is when I was in grad school, one of my uh the you know, my the people in the program with me, his name was uh Kaysong, uh, and he used to make these Tibetan butter sculptures. And so he but his Tibetan butter sculpture was he would make a giant thing of butter. Stas you'll hate this.
+
+[46:30] The butter was like the butter was like waist high, and then he would get naked and sit, like put hit put his junk and whatnot, and the butter sculpture was the mold of his junk and backside, and then like just that's a lot of butter anyway. You know what I mean? And so like whenever so like that image of that, when I see a saddle-shaped kind of butter situation, and I love K-Song, but I'm like, don't want that on my toast. I don't I don't want his butter sculpture on my toast. It's not where it belongs.
+
+[47:10] No, it's not where it belongs. Uh do we get those guys back? Do they have any? I asked, John, I'm waiting to hear. Any opinion on uh on on rotation of corn?
+
+[47:20] All right. Uh Scott Shockley. Um. Oh, wait, what? We have a oh.
+
+[47:27] I see that your latest content on Instagram is a graphic of Kiwis going into the centrifuge. I'm a semi-Kiwi freak. Hmm. The fruit, not the people. Yeah.
+
+[47:38] And not the bird. Right? It's kind of a ridiculous bird, right? Uh like a little ground. Like kiwi.
+
+[47:46] The fruit is named because it looks like the bird, right? Not because it's from New Zealand. Or is it also from New Zealand? I think it's yeah. I think the fruit is named after the national identity icons.
+
+[48:02] All the amazing stuff they have in New Zealand. Why the kiwi, you think? Like as the thing. Yeah. Why?
+
+[48:08] Yeah. Don't know. It's not a particularly magisterial bird. Right? You know what I mean?
+
+[48:15] It's like. Yeah, but uh what are the alternatives? They have some really amazing, like interesting trees, whole little like ecosystems with like really rare and cool stuff. You know what I mean? I don't know.
+
+[48:27] Yeah, yeah. But needs to be cute, right? Needs to be short, small. Why small? So you can actually carry one around with you?
+
+[48:37] Anyway. Uh I'm a semi-kiwi freak and uh and a tiki freak and a spinzall owner. That's good. All right. Uh do you know of any great kiwi drink recipes?
+
+[48:48] No. Uh in my experience, kiwi isn't great when it's cold. I like it cold out of the fridge. I used to go so crazy on kiwis, I would eat them until my until my uh lips and gum started bleeding. I once ate 820 out of a bag.
+
+[49:03] The way I eat kiwis is I chop off the very hard end or sometimes use it as a little bit of a handle, and then they just chew it. And I think it's the combination of the protease enzymes and the rough, hairy skin makes for like it's almost like you remember when they used to say that that Blistex and Carmex that they would put fiberglass into it to make you addicted? Not true, I don't think. Because it's not true. But that was what was running the that was, you know, I think pre-internet.
+
+[49:30] That's what everyone was saying. There's fiberglass in that. No, it's not. Anyways, but it's kind of that is the equivalent of that. You ever like work with fiberglass?
+
+[49:40] Yes. Horrible. So fireplace. Oh God. Yeah.
+
+[49:45] Nastasia used to like love fake fireplaces, like, love, like LERV, fake fireplaces. And like, yeah, they're made of fiberglass. And but those is like, so like working with that kind of fiberglass where it can like stab you at a moment's notice and get on your skin has a different kind of hazard than like working with the fluffy fiberglass or just the stuff because that stuff breaks off in small pieces and really gets in your skin. Like your toast. You know what I mean?
+
+[50:12] It's like you're ruined. Uh yeah, I hate working with fiberglass. I don't think I ever want to do that again. I don't I liked making not with batting, but with like actual fiberglass composites. Like I used to like working, like not working with it, but like the fact that you could make something so strong.
+
+[50:30] Like uh used to strike me, Jack, as a man who's done some fiberglass pre preg work in your life. No? Never? You never like made a surfboard or no. Yeah.
+
+[50:39] No. All my work's in audio. Yeah. Well, uh, like fiberglass over foam, you can make these incredibly light things that like you could throw off of a building. You know what I mean?
+
+[50:48] Like, well, once they break, they break real bad. But you know what I mean, up until the point that they break. They're like, and there's something very cool that you can make something that seems so produced and industrial yourself. But on the other hand, hey, get getting in my hand. I don't think I'll ever do it again.
+
+[51:07] Anyway. Plus, now I would use, I did Kevlar once. Kevlar sucks to cut. Like I made uh I made Kevlar, I've done Kevlar. I've never done graphite.
+
+[51:17] Graphite's the money. Everyone likes graphite. You like to look at graphite? You do even you like the look of graphite anastasia? Yeah.
+
+[51:23] There you go. Uh all right. Uh so do you have any great kiwi drink recipes? In my experience, Kiwi isn't good cold, but I used to think uh that about passion fruit and the Demerar dry float proves that wrong. P.S.
+
+[51:35] I put my fist in the air when Dave ate a cherry. I hope he I can, I can eat as many as I want now. I mean, not as many as I want because people stop me, they're like, don't get hosed again. I want Harold to undo his his crustacean stuff with the shots, but he and he doesn't want you don't want to do it, right? You just don't feel like it's necessary.
+
+[51:51] You feel like you've gone crustaceanless so long. I just don't get around to it. But I'm I'm about to change doctors. Maybe that's something I'll bring up in my uh punch list. Yeah.
+
+[52:03] So Scott says he has uh the phytophotodermatitis for limes, but he still juices them with gloves on, which you know, kudos. Guess one else to juice those limes for you, man. Yeah, yeah. You know, get someone else to do that. Uh all right.
+
+[52:17] Uh Minwah Tiger question on the use of nitrogen and nitrous oxide in bar drinks. I know nitrogen uh is used for coffee, and a lot of home nitro is actually nitrous. It's actually both. The problem is the terminology. I had this problem.
+
+[52:31] I was going over the thing, there is no standard terminology for nitrogen versus nitrous um oxide. I will say this. When I think that if you're gonna listen to a group of people, listen to the funny car people. When they say nitrous, they mean nitrous oxide. Ain't nobody in a car pumping nitrogen into their freaking fuel mixtures to like get a better, faster burn.
+
+[53:02] You know why? Because nitrogen is freaking a waste product that's in the air. They're trying to get rid of that. They're trying to get more oxidizer up in that, right? So when those people say nitro, that is nitrous.
+
+[53:16] And those guys have been saying nitro since well before any of us have been around. Because they've been using, I mean, I think forever, nitrous oxide, right? In in in those kind of cars. So I think they get to own the term. So I don't think we get to go back as you know, coffee people or drink people and be like, no, no, now nitro means nitrogen.
+
+[53:36] No, no, it doesn't. And also, we have a nitrogen bull crap called beer gas, right? So beer gas is nitrogen and CO2 for when you want to jack the pressure to force it through a lot of lines, but you don't want to uh jack the CO2 higher, right? Or if you want, or nitrogen like in a Guinness head foam, they need a good word for that like rolling head that you get in Guinness, because that's what people are doing using nitrogen for, right? Is to get that rolling head and a depressurized drink.
+
+[54:04] So there needs to be a better word for that. But I don't think you get to choose nitrous or nitro. I don't think you get to, that's not, you know. You think what was that uh nitro was also like uh one of the American gladiators? He was one of the original American gladiators.
+
+[54:18] Wow. Back, yeah. Yeah, back beep. Yeah. So you think nitro was all about that nitrogen?
+
+[54:25] No. No, no, you know that there's not one but two or three different American gladiator documentaries out right now? Which is why I popped into my head. Yeah. It like one wasn't enough.
+
+[54:37] And apparently they're vastly different and take vastly different approaches to what American Gladiators was. And I didn't know even anyone cared at all. I I went, I had to say I went to go see them. And New Haven. Wait, you went to go see American Gladiators?
+
+[54:53] Yeah. That's so awesome. Yeah. New Haven, like they came through and like we went to go see American Gladiators because it was kind of like a cool concept, like local knuckleheads. I was like, I'm gonna go see local knuckleheads, get the crap beat out of them.
+
+[55:04] And then I saw this documentary, I was like, oh no, it really was dangerous. They really were getting the crap beat out of them. Yeah, they had no idea what was going on. And like people were getting real aggro, and everyone was like super roided up, so like they were actually like being awesome. And then like uh it was right around the time when um I guess Bush was still president, right?
+
+[55:21] So they were right around the time when uh they were like, people, steroids, bad. And so they were like, they try to make them all do the P test, and they're like, how are we supposed to do this job if we're not roided up? You know what I mean? Like, like how am I supposed to look like this and do this? Like, what kind of fiction is this?
+
+[55:39] You know what I mean? Where like I I'm supposed to go get the crap knocked out of me every day, look like I'm super freaking jacked, right? I mean, have the recovery time, just not a roid-free proposition, right? You know what I mean? Whole concept dies, yeah, and so like as a nation, we can't be we we can't we have to be like, well, we support the gladiators, but we don't support the roids, so we have to.
+
+[56:06] You know what I mean? Like, like, why is it that we can't like we when we wanna do something bad, why can't we just be like, we're gonna accept this bad thing? Don't you think we'd be better as a culture if we were like, no, we are making this choice to do something bad so that we can have jacked gladiators go out there on a daily basis. You know what I'm saying? I don't know.
+
+[56:29] I feel we do this all the time. We do it all the time. Yeah. Anyway. Uh all right.
+
+[56:36] Uh Ben S, I didn't get oh, I didn't get a chance to look at uh your mini vacuum just distillation setup. Let me ask you this, Stas. I know you don't want to do this, so I know you don't want to, but like, do you think that now that all of these fools are using rotary evaporators all over the world that there is no a market? Yeah, okay, good thoughtful answer. I'm trying to tell that or like Dave, imagine when all the glass breaks and that's what I've never used glass.
+
+[57:06] I would never use glass. The whole point for me is like the the dream. Remember when we were going and we were building it but we never finished it, and the FCI wasn't supporting us, and we went and I got that piece of stainless steel made, and we tried vacuum forming in the kitchen. I bought a whole bunch of uh freaking uh polycarbonate and we threw it like so you're gonna vacuum form polycarbonate people. Polycarbonate has trapped water inside of it, so you need to dry your polycarbonate at a fairly low temperature, like right around the boiling point of water in an oven, low oven for a long time before you heat it up to forming temperature, because otherwise the water will poo and you'll get bubbles in your butt can you guess what person isn't patient enough to wait around for the polycarbonate to dry in an oven before they vacuum form?
+
+[57:53] Can you guess? Me. Yeah. And then remember we we tried to to like you know remember we had the vacuum and we sucked it all down and it was like all messed up anyway we never finished it but my dream is the rotary evaporator that you can set up quickly and then uh open up the window in your high rise throw it out onto the street and God willing you don't kill anybody you can take your elevator down 30 floors pick it up off of the ground and run it again like that that is a rotary evaporator. Uh so we're wait so we still have a couple seconds what do you got Harold anything wait words of wisdom people want some McGee words of wisdom what do you got no pressure words of wisdom um a breath of wisdom breath of wisdom yeah yeah uh okay well uh this no come see us tomorrow Harold Harold come see us tomorrow at uh Thunderbolt LA right uh and it's probably too late to come see us today at the what's it called at Thunderbolt for the Kampari compar thanks to the Kampari uh USA team.
+
+[59:02] Harold you want to leave them with a little bit about uh coffee coffee and like rejiggering your mental words and how words are important and how you describe things how about that? Sure. So uh we talked about this at Harvard a little bit uh there's been a kind of standard chart for uh figuring out the sweet spot for brewing um pour over coffee and three quarters of it has been uh kind of off limits you know it's got uh it's weak. It's bitter. It's not good.
+
+[59:32] There's a new chart out uh as of a couple of weeks ago. And uh all the all that negativity is gone. It's now um tea like instead of weak. And other other qualities that you can enjoy in coffee. So keep your eyes peeled for a new coffee chart.
+
+[59:50] Right. And stay away from uh normative words when you're describing flavors. Yeah. Yeah. Nastas, you'll be very mad about this.
+
+[59:56] I'll leave with this. Uh so weak and undeveloped weak and underdeveloped, which was one of the coffee things, which is like my business card. We can underdevelop. It's now you're not gonna you're gonna hate what it gotta be labeled. What?
+
+[1:00:10] Sweet. Yeah. Yeah. No one's fixing my business cards. They're gonna say, thanks for coming on.
+
+[1:00:19] Uh good to hang out with you guys in the real life again. Joe and John, we'll see you hopefully next week. Miss you guys. Quinn, hopefully also be back. Happy birthday to Quinn.
+
+[1:00:28] Happy birthday. Yes, happy birthday. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live and wet from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City, New Stand Studios joined as usual with John here in the booth. How you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yeah.
+
+[0:22] Yeah. A lot brighter than you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[0:28] Yeah. Wet. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Got uh Joe Hazen on the panels.
+
+[0:32] How you doing? Doing all right, doing all right. We'll look like a little wet pup. Yeah, yeah, I wish. Wet pups are cute.
+
+[0:39] Got uh got uh Nastal headed up the coast, got Nastasi in Stanford. How you doing? Okay. Yeah, you enjoying your electrical panel, which is on the Fritz. No, I this has been miserable here.
+
+[0:53] It's disgusting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh now going across, but staying in our country. We got uh Jackie Molecules in LA. How you doing?
+
+[1:04] Good in LA. Yeah. Well, you were there last week too, remember? I was there with you. Uh I guess I was at a wedding in Minneapolis.
+
+[1:12] Oh this weekend. How was how was the uh how was Minneapolis? I haven't been there since I was a small, small child. That was nice. You know what I did when I was there when I was a small, small child?
+
+[1:22] We caught a whole bunch of catfish. I was upset when I realized that the people we were staying with don't eat. I mean, I mean, catfish, not the best fish, but so we buried them all in the yard as fertilizer, like 20 of them. Like 20. Not like two or three.
+
+[1:36] Twenty. Oh. Yeah. I was like seven, and I was like, ooh, fish. And then I was like, we're like, well, why are we burying them?
+
+[1:43] Doesn't mean I said to this day. I still don't understand. Like, you know, f all you know, 40, whatever, seven years later. But get what? That's not the important thing.
+
+[1:51] Going up that coast a little bit into the great country of Canada. We have back Quinn! How you doing, Quinn? Hey. Hey, yeah.
+
+[2:00] Return. If not triumphant return. Yeah, well, anyway, good to have you back, buddy. Uh yeah. Yeah.
+
+[2:10] All right. So uh, well, the people who were in LA last week, we got a lot to talk about over what happened in the in the past week. But, you know, John, of course, stuck here. New York, man, me. Hey, man.
+
+[2:26] Your choice. All right. So uh yeah, so what do you what do you guys got going on? What's what's uh what's good. Wow.
+
+[2:34] That much I I got a lot. I got a lot to talk about. Quinn, you got like over a month of pent up stuff here going on. So what do you got? Oh, let's see.
+
+[2:45] Um, just as I was crashing and burning, I did a yakatory dinner with some family friends. That was pretty good. Did the whole like breakdown? I got four yeah, four breeds of chicken. Chicken bear.
+
+[3:06] Okay, what were they? Uh they were actually trying to breeds, because that's what I could source. Any bantam silkies, any black chickens? Probably silk is no black chickens. Black chickens.
+
+[3:20] I know, I know. They're tiny. You know what they you know what they do? They taste real good. They're tough.
+
+[3:24] They're tough as nails, but they are delicious. And they look bizarre. They look bizarre. Probably not great for decoratory, though. No, I don't know.
+
+[3:33] Because you're if you're gonna do like super fast on the outside, yeah. I don't know. I guess it depends on what you're looking for. You know, uh Harold McGee met this guy in, I guess, Spain, whose name I forget, who's like, I only like really chewy meats, you Americans are the worst. You know what I mean?
+
+[3:48] So, I don't know, man. Yeah. No, no, no. I mean, clearly Japan likes like tender meats because look what they do with their with their stuff. You know what I mean?
+
+[3:58] Like us. Anyway, go ahead. Yeah, what do you got? Again, there's like a standard North American, nice chicken. Well, which is it, standard American North American chicken or nice?
+
+[4:08] Because there are people who say you can't be both. I like, you know, our relatively soft, tender chicken as an item, even though I think it's problematic. I enjoy eating it. Well, again, I got like a nice local producer. Again, they I I got um on the mainland, shipped frozen.
+
+[4:28] They're like a fancy culture producer. So they had their standard chicken, and then they had the other breeds. Yeah, and uh, did did which chicken reigned supreme? And did you take a bite out of a bell pepper like old school? Are you old school bell pepper biter?
+
+[4:43] What is what do they do in the American Iron Chef? In the original Japanese Iron Chef, when they say, Whose cuisine reigns supreme, the guy takes a bite out of a bell pepper. An apple, anyone can take a bite out of an apple. Only a lunatic stands up in front of a huge group of people and takes a bite out of a bell pepper. You know what I mean?
+
+[5:01] There's a green one too. Real crazy. Yeah, real nuts. You know, you know what? I have to say, for the first 40 years of my life, I was like, who the hell wants green peppers, green bell peppers?
+
+[5:12] And in the past like 10, 12 years, I've been like, you know what? They got their place. I was like, like all the way up until like maybe in my mid 40s, I was like, I was like, if you uh like a hundred times out of a hundred, if you put a red bell pepper on a table and a green bell pepper on a table and said, Go, I'm gonna take the red, like a hundred times out of a hundred. But now I understand that there's a see. I always thought of like a green bell pepper as a red bell pepper that wasn't ready yet.
+
+[5:39] You know what I'm saying? Okay, you know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'll bring that. Yeah, it's like why'd you kill it so young?
+
+[5:46] Wait, just wait. You know what I mean? Uh different now. I'm a different man. I'm not gonna say a better man.
+
+[5:51] Most people would say worse. Anyway, that's that's that's like saying that's like saying green tomatoes have no use. Okay, well, okay. When you say green tomatoes, do you mean underripe green tomatoes, or do you mean tomatoes that God meant to be green? Either.
+
+[6:05] Well, they're very different animals, right? More the first one. So underripe tomatoes. Yeah. Can I tell you something?
+
+[6:13] That I'm gonna say two things right now, they're gonna make everyone think of a terrible person. Have you ever had an other than pickled tomatoes, which aren't as good as pickled cucumbers? Sorry, people. Have you ever had like a fried green tomato or any green tomato preparation where you're like, oh my god, if I don't have that again, I'll die. I mean, I made some fermented green tomatoes, they were really good.
+
+[6:43] That's pickled. Yeah, the answer is no for me. Yeah, and I like pickled tomatoes, green tomatoes, because you don't have there. Did I ever talk on the show about the pickled uh semi-ripe, the reds that I used to do? They turn into like a salsa texture because they get real soft because there's enough sugar in them that they break hard down, but they make a fantastic fermented like pico de gallo.
+
+[7:06] They're great, you know what I mean? You just ferment your lacto ferment them as normal with the onions and the garlic. Then you just drain off the liquid, hack the whole thing up, and it's like, get it? Pickled de gallo. Do you get it?
+
+[7:19] Do you yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Pickle the pickled de freaking gallo. But it has one benefit. It is delicious. And also, you know how like you make extra pico de gallo and you're like, this is gonna be fine.
+
+[7:33] And the next day you're like, this is fine. And then you keep eating it even after it starts. Because fermented in your fridge, pico de gallo isn't good ferment. It's like it's not lactic, it's like ethanol fermentation. And it just tastes not the best.
+
+[7:51] No. It's not the best. I'll tell you this though. Careful with the uh pickled de gallo because it has a huge salt content. Not huge, but big, bigger than regular pico de gallo.
+
+[8:02] Anyway, so I digress. Uh again. So, Quinn, whose chicken reigned supreme? Was it the standard chicken or one of the fancies? And if it was one of the fancies, do you at least remember that one?
+
+[8:13] Oh yeah, I remember the breeds. One was called loon kong L O O N G space. K-A-O-N-G. Um, like loon the bird with a G and Kong like Donkey Kong. Yes.
+
+[8:31] Okay. Um, we actually had, I remember now, there was only three breeds, but with that one, we had a male and a female bird. Ooh, so what do you what do you like better in Kong? Did you like the the Donkey Kong or do you like the uh the female Kong? Uh well I don't you gotta remember I don't execute these things.
+
+[8:53] So we didn't keep some trick of what was left. There was definitely preference part to part, but there was no overall winner. Oh, so you did it the way uh you did it the way that what's his name did when he invented the pressure cooker. Oh, is that Rumford? Where he cooked did two lambs and he put the two lambs on opposite sides, didn't say a damn thing.
+
+[9:16] McGee's t I should know it exactly because this is one of the stories McGee tells at the beginning of the Harvard lecture every year. And so I've heard it for like 12 times every year, so you'd think it would sink into my thick skull, but I'm used to pr I'm prepping while he's talking, which I maybe looks rude, but I have no way around it, right? So I'm prepping while he's talking. So anyway, I believe it's Rumford. Uh someone like that.
+
+[9:37] Some similar baking uh powder named uh, you know, person who used to be from the United States, was a traitor Tory and had to escape to uh England to escape being freaking pillowed here after the war. Someone like that. That happened to Rumford. Yeah, he's a he was a bad American. Okay.
+
+[9:55] Yeah. Anyway, uh so like maybe it wasn't him, maybe it was someone else. I think it was somebody else now that I think about it. Anyway, whoever in the hell it was, he pressure cooked one. It was called a digester, I think.
+
+[10:06] Pressure cooked one and then regular roasted the other one and stuck them on opposite sides of his party den. Whatever they call a party den back then, right? And just weighed them and then seed which one saw which one had more eaten. That was the science test, the Quinn style science test. So, for instance, the leg of one was eaten more than the leg of the other, but there was no overall No, again, we were like, you know, we we had all heard it out, so we didn't have like a we were doing part by part, but I don't remember if everybody got every part of every chicken.
+
+[10:43] Because we've only had like one of each. One chicken of each. Yeah, so you had an N of one, too. Yeah, we're gonna get into this later because someone asked a question that this is directly uh related to. Now, uh, just so I can judge your family.
+
+[10:57] Uh is your family more uh breast people or more thigh people. Um again, everyone was down to eat all of it. I mean, if we're having like a standard breakdown chicken, I think we're definitely more thigh people. My sister-in-law is a chicken breast person. This is it's always the sister in law.
+
+[11:20] I'm a chicken breast person too. You're a breast person? What? Whoa, really? Yeah.
+
+[11:24] What? Wow. Oh. Yeah, I mean, listen, I I love the thigh and drumstick and everything too. Love it's all great, but yeah, I don't know.
+
+[11:32] It's just something about a nicely cooked chicken breast that yeah, that's a spot. Wow. Yeah. What about skinless moelish chicken breasts? Definitely not.
+
+[11:41] No, no, no, no. I like breasts for a cut, like. Here's the thing. Like, as someone who likes to bulletproof everything in my life except for my relationships, like thighs, right, are so much more bulletproof. Yeah, absolutely.
+
+[12:02] Chicken thighs are the skate wing of the poultry world. Right? If the question is, if I'm going to a restaurant and I don't trust them, you get to skate. Why? Because you can beat the hell out of a skate and it's still gonna be good.
+
+[12:14] I mean, you could hammer a steak. You could take a sledgehammer of heat and go hoop-boom, and that skate's still gonna be edible. Same with same with a thigh. Yeah. Do that to a breast and you toast.
+
+[12:25] Yeah, absolutely. You toast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
+
+[12:29] Um, I mean, yeah, I'll give you time. Yeah. What do you got? What do you got? I'm gonna say I've got more news.
+
+[12:35] Oh, yeah, but let me give let me give John a little prop here. Let me give John a little prop. Okay. If you're actually judging a chicken, the flavor of a chicken, I would guess that a better chicken has more differentiation in the breast because it's more subtle in general. So if you're looking for subtle differences in chicken, maybe, and definitely to see whether or not someone can cook something properly.
+
+[13:01] It's gonna be more difficult to cook the breast properly than it is to cook the Yeah. I just like the taste. Yeah, I don't know. So what I grew up on. All right, let me tell you this.
+
+[13:10] Chicken breast is the uh is the pork tenderloin of the poetry world. Oh, sure. And you like pork tenderloin. I mean, I don't love it, but that's like another thing I grew up on, you know. You go to somebody's you go to somebody's house, right?
+
+[13:26] And you're like, I brought this, whatever, side salad. What's the main dish? And they're like, instant pork tenderloin, and then they pull that like glass thing out of their oven, and it's these thin tubes of desiccated meat that come out with like sauce that is evaporated and glued to the bottom of the glass. Yep, because they didn't even add like extra liquid or fat. And uh you're like, oh you're like, I'm so glad I brought this.
+
+[13:56] I'm so glad I brought this Merlot to pair with it. Zing. Oh man. Anyway, yeah. Alright, so what else you got, Glenn?
+
+[14:08] Well, basically, that was that yakutori dinner happened like as I was getting sick. And then really, right in the thick of things, um, because I was already booked, my grandma and uncle uh arrived from Ontario. So that was great, but you know, not great timing. Um but you know, it was fun. We cooked, you know, five days a week.
+
+[14:36] I got her recipe for gnocchi and a certain type of cookie, and I actually snuck scales into a few steps. So I have actual measurements. You mean you made her weigh the crap while she was doing it? Yeah, it was like, you know, my uncle distracted her. Yeah, you know that you know the you know the trick, right?
+
+[14:59] You know the trick next time she comes. The the trick to this is you pre-weigh everything, including the container it's in. And then you just weigh the crap afterwards. I am but sometimes like like she boiled the potatoes at the Airbnb and then like brought them. So it's like what are you gonna do?
+
+[15:18] What are you gonna do? So she doesn't use them hot, huh? She lets them full cool. I know I like literally every article, like contemporary article I've read about how to make the best gnocchi. I swear she does the exact opposite.
+
+[15:35] I think hers are better. All right. Uh I've I've said this on the air before. I am not the uh I am not the Jedi master of gnocchi. I am a spotty gnocchi maker at best.
+
+[15:48] My good gnocchi is is good, and my bad gnocchi is meh. It's fine. It's not not inedible, but it's not like. I used to make it like every week, and then I was like, you know what? I'm just not, I'm just not.
+
+[16:02] What are your guys' thoughts on uh Parisian gnocchi? John's pro because of course he's a Francophile weasel. You like him? Again. Again.
+
+[16:15] A ball. And you got extra? When does that come up? Like you're like, I'm making shoe pastry. I got a whole bunch extra.
+
+[16:25] Get a pot. You know what I mean? Like, how does that come up? I mean, that's happened to me many times. Why are you making shoe paste?
+
+[16:33] Shoe pastry is one of those things. Here's another thing people are gonna get mad about. People are like, if look, I worked at the French Culinary Institute, all right? For years. And every event, here's the gouchers.
+
+[16:43] You know what I mean? So it's like, if I never have another gougère in my life, it's fine. I'm fine with that. You know what I mean? Especially like, here's the gougère we made four hours ago.
+
+[16:54] You're like, ooh, great. You know what I mean? Like, I don't need it ever again. I'm fine. They're good.
+
+[17:00] I don't know. No one's with me. No one's with me. I'm with you. I'm with you.
+
+[17:03] Yeah. What do you were all thoughts on um air frying gnocchi? Never tried. But I don't understand why instead of deep frying? It's like boiling and frying?
+
+[17:12] Yeah, exactly. How much butter? I don't, I don't know. Somebody said it to me. It's like it's delicious.
+
+[17:19] You gotta try it. And I'm like, I don't know about that. Before anything, it's like halfway to a tater tot at that point. Kind of, right? I've had it, it's good.
+
+[17:24] I think they do it at Frenchette downtown. Oh with some conte and some Parisian ham in there. It's quite good. How loud is it down there these days? When you're ordering the gnocchi, you're like, I have the gnocchi!
+
+[17:35] Like that because it's so loud. Oh my god. Nastassi, you remember how loud it was when we were there last time? A long time ago. Yeah.
+
+[17:42] Long time ago. Uh wait a second. So I'm back to this. You're at a table, right? And someone puts a bowl.
+
+[17:50] You know who loves you know who loves Parisian yolkie, by the way, is Wiley. Loves to make them, makes the shoe pastry for that, not so that he could hand me a bunch of gougers first, right? So it's kind of a good name, though, shoe pastry. Cabbage pastry? Like little cabbages.
+
+[18:05] And that's what it means, right? Yeah. Because it puffs up the little cabbage. Yeah, it's kind of nice. Look, they are fun and a miracle.
+
+[18:11] And they're it's a cool recipe with the precook and all that. I enjoy it. I enjoy the theory of it. I just never need to see it again. So, uh a bowl of Parisian yucky shows up, and then a bowl of like honest to goodness Italian potato and yucky show up.
+
+[18:27] You know, not like a deep bowl, like a nice, shallow like bowl, right? Okay, which one do you pick up? Probably Italian Italian, all right. Stas. Italian Italian, okay.
+
+[18:40] Yeah, obviously. What'd you say? I've never had the Parisian one, so I have no idea. I'd probably pick that one up because I've never had it. Yeah, you'd take two bites and you'd be like, give me the Italian.
+
+[18:51] I do fear I prefer, I I have made the Parisian style as a component for a soup. I prefer that. I'll make chicken and dumplings with that technique. You know, like a standard like leaden, like European style dumpling, like chicken and lead, basically. I kind of like I like dumplings.
+
+[19:14] Well, it's we it's weird. Back in the day, I watched an episode of Goody, Adolf Brown, like way, way back in the day. And he always said that there were two styles of dumplings. The flat only two denser, more noodle-like one. Right.
+
+[19:29] And then more of a shoe pastry style. And then now in contemporary recipes, it just seems like biscuit dough. Well, that's no no. Biscuits have always been a valid thing. Just because Alton, I love Alton Brown, but just because Alton Brown didn't say that biscuits can be dumplings.
+
+[19:52] I've never, I've never, I've never else said seen a shoe pastry style dumpling in the context of chicken dumplings. Yeah. Yeah. I used to do biscuit dumplings all the time. They're fine.
+
+[20:08] I used to do gross stuff when I was like really young when we had no money. You know what I you know my one of my standard go-tos was? Get this. So we allowed ourselves one pound of bacon a week. This is right after he graduated.
+
+[20:19] This is when I was deep frying everything in the in the Fry Daddy. Anyway, so it was like canned, I can't remember everything. It was like canned beans and like a little bit of shredded cheese and a couple of pieces of flavoring bacon we were allowed. And then maybe some like canned tomato stuff. And then just I m would make biscuits and cover it all in a skillet and then cook the cook the biscuits on top of that crap in the skillet until the tops of the biscuits were done.
+
+[20:45] That was one of my standard, like we have nothing. Like that's pretty good. Yeah. That's okay. Um I forget whether I put mashed taters into it or all.
+
+[20:56] Anyway, that was what you know. I found my 1940s cast iron like polished pan at this thrift store for like two dollars, and you know, I still have that pan to this day. You know what I mean? But I have to say, I use the black steel more now. Like in general, like when I want something that is that style of non stick, I pick up the black steel unless it's going in the oven.
+
+[21:18] Yeah. And then I'm back on my cast iron. And not because of the weight. I don't really give a crap about the weight of the pan. A lot of people are worried about the weight of the pan.
+
+[21:26] I'm not worried about the weight of the pan. I don't care. Uh anyway. So uh Jack, you never weighed in on your freaking dumpling preferences, my man. Because you have no uh no no yuckey preferences.
+
+[21:38] I mean, I've never met a gnocchi I don't like, but I'm going Italian every time. Oh, I can introduce you, my man. I can introduce you to some to some yucky you don't like. Hey, you know what? You know what my favorite though?
+
+[21:49] My favorite dumpling style, Spetzel, man. I love Spetzel. Oh my god. I like to make Spetzel, I like to eat Spenzel. When are you having that Spenzel party with that big Spenzel maker that you took from the FCI?
+
+[22:00] I was told by none other than Nastasia Lopez that nobody wants to go to a Spetzel party. Even though she, I believe, still owns a derndl. No one, she said, wants to go to a Spetzel party. And like Sch like Spetzel and Schnitzel, like the two schn the two schput and schnell. Oh my god, right?
+
+[22:22] Joe Joe's thinking about it right now. And like, you know, a nice freaking schmittel. You may have a point about the branding. Maybe we could brand those parties a little better. What about what about no one's gonna be mad eating those things?
+
+[22:33] Yeah, of course. What's okay? It's do you think wait? Do Americans when they hear Spetzel not think, oh yeah, are we not like a Spenzel folk? I don't know.
+
+[22:43] Your average American probably would be like, I don't know, what's that? Yeah, I think I agree with you, uh Jack. But I mean, Spetzel sounds better than sperm-shaped dumplings. Right? Yeah, I'll give you that.
+
+[22:56] Yeah. You call him Paisley, I guess. Call it like a raindrop dumpling. Oh my god. Um Instagram genius.
+
+[23:05] Instagram genius, raindrop dumplings, but they have to be clear and made of agar and have no taste. Oh god. No, on Instagram. Have you guys tried my rainwater dumplings? Gross.
+
+[23:19] Uh Stas, do you remember? Um had we already quit the hydrocolloid class by the time you came on at the SCI, or we were still teaching the hydrocolloid class. Nope. We were still teaching it together. Oh my god, do you remember having to make all of we did all of those gels with no flavor just so people could see the texture of it?
+
+[23:38] Yep. Oh my god. You're like, it's like everyone got like if you just want like the worst. This is why when Dax came to me and was like, Well, just people are making these rain cakes, whatever they're called on Instagram is just like agar or whatever, no flavor. I was like, that's horrible.
+
+[23:55] I've done it many times. And like the worst is probably unflavored alginate beads. Like an unflavored alginate gel is a ticket to sad town. It's just nothing good about it. You know what I mean?
+
+[24:11] Uh geez Louise. All right, what else you got, Quinn? You never told us which chick you oh, you had no results. You had no results. How did how did standard, in your words, do against non standard?
+
+[24:24] Let's just take it that way. Again, everyone liked everything. Um you're saying Quinn fuse Quinn Quinn says no one needs to buy a non-standard breed of chicken, because pretty much we all are different. Go for the white leg horn. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[24:39] No, it was it was all it was all there at the the ceiling or the floor of quality was very high but there was some pieces there were some pieces especially the fattier pieces where some people preferred the non-standard breeds I would have thought the the opposite but interesting but so did you do any six week old American standard breeds or was it all like this by this person who knows what's the same husbandry practices all breeds you didn't use like I believe so right so you didn't next time you need to just throw a supermarket chicken in there yeah yeah supermarket chicken all right what else what else you got from me before we go la crazy over here since uh I mean I think it's a major one after grandma left you know oh things are things are gonna hold in better also like I love that you think that like our listeners are so dumb that they're not gonna research whatever kind of cookie you're like it's a specific cookie which I don't but I don't know if that name is like Peloto like Spanish for like ball or balloon I g I guess pelota it's like a it's like a slightly fluffy mildly orange flavored cookie dry wet fried what I mean it's a cookie you make it and bake it it's it's relatively dry on the inside is it like a completely mouth drying experience like some Italian cookies are, like where you're like, water? Or it I love those cookies. Joe look go Joe's giving me the look. But I I crave those cookies, Joe, sometimes. All right.
+
+[26:27] I wouldn't say that that far. Tartalicos are like, yeah, those are super bone-dry. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[26:36] Oh my God. I anyway, whatever. So I'm sure someone's gonna research. You remember, Quinn? I like was uh um a sixth grader when I had to leave my mom's wedding to my stepfather early, and all I had was the Boston Italian of the uh pronunciation from like 35 years ago of what this pastry was, and one of our listeners tracked it down for us.
+
+[26:59] All right. So I'm saying, like, if you say specific cookie, you're not giving them anything to do. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[27:06] Pellet. Okay, once I test the recipe and confirm my measurements, I'll put it on the Patreon. Okay. All right. Uh all right.
+
+[27:18] So, LA Times, LA Time. Not not the LA Times. Time on the show to talk about LA, I mean. Yeah, I've never read the LA Times. Decent paper stars.
+
+[27:27] Yeah. All right. Yeah. Yeah. Uh all right.
+
+[27:32] So we did last week's show with the Harold McGee. Awesome. Good to have McGee on. And then we went directly, did a big thing at Thunderbolt, uh at Thunderbolt LA, which by the way, those guys killing it. Doing a great job.
+
+[27:46] Those guys are like coming up with new uses of the spinzall that like, so get this. You know uh who's oh, we got to talk spinzall too. Presale's over. Anyway, so we're at Thunderbolt, and they had this idea. So, like a lot of the times when when so Hustino is when you blend fruit and liquor.
+
+[28:03] And then whether you use a spin saw or not, you spin out the solids to get like the fruit liquor back. And what's nice about it, if you use dried fruits, is that it's shelf stable, you know, or semi-dried fruits or a mixture of dry. We did a oh my god, how good was that peach Nastasia? So good. So it was like half, not half, but it was like a portion farmer's market peaches, which were kicking.
+
+[28:26] They were like 14 bricks. It was nuts. They were so sweet, juicy, sweet, juicy. And then uh and dried peaches, right? And uh so the advantage is is that you get some of that sugar kick and extra solids from the dried peach, but you get some of the liquid and the fresh high note flavors out of the fresh beach.
+
+[28:44] And we did it into the uh wild turkey 101 bourbon. It was nuts so good. Like so good. You know what? It's like uh imagine if Soco was good.
+
+[28:55] No offense, Soko. I think Soco was what it was, yeah. Yeah, it was it was like it was like it was like the Soko, it's like someone was like, This is a great idea, and we came up with that, and they came up with Soko, and you're like, oh okay. You know what I mean? Like, I can't drink Soco anymore.
+
+[29:13] Like I had a bad experience when I was a kid with Soco, and like I haven't had it since. Like they still make it, right? Uh yeah. I mean it's not good, but is it like the first choice of children everywhere? Or get out anymore.
+
+[29:28] Yeah, oh yeah, now they have five. Because like it was it's one of those weird things that was in your parents' liquor cabinet that you could kind of sneak out, right? You know what I mean? Like why who keeps soco around? Is the reason everyone had SOCO from their parents' generation?
+
+[29:44] Wasn't Janice Joplin a fan? Oh is that maybe. But those are also like Soko is probably one of the first ones to have a handle on it, too. Really? I think so.
+
+[29:53] Yeah, maybe maybe not. Anyway. There's always one of those left over as well. Anyway, this stuff's delicious. Right, that's what I mean.
+
+[29:59] It's just sitting there in the back of a cabinet under the yeah. Yeah. So uh so one of the problems with dry fruit justinos, right? Is that um your yield is usually low because the fruit has a lot of pecting. Like the worst at this is like apricots and stuff like this.
+
+[30:13] So they come up came up with this idea, it's so smart. It's like you don't think of it if you're working, you don't I didn't think of it, I guess, because we never thought outside of our own procedures, right? Until you do. So they were doing a cherry thing, and what they did was tart cherries dried. And what they did was they soaked the cherry, they were doing a rum Houstino.
+
+[30:33] So they soaked, pre-soaked, prehydrated the cherries in a white rum, right? Uh, which you don't need to spin anything out of. Because when you do Hustino, like a lot of times, like you soften the wood a little bit, and there's all this, you know, there's this kind of synergy between the liquid and the fruit because the pectins grab onto some of the wood components, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So they s they prehydrated the cherries in uh in like a very estery stuff that they didn't want to knock the high notes off of, and then they extracted a lot of the high note flavors and the cherries were softer. Then they blended them into the dark rum, did the Houstino on that, and then married the two into the drink.
+
+[31:11] That was a smart idea. Call that like Thunderbolt, Thunderbolt Houstino. Don't know who thought of it over there, but great. Anyway, they have a bunch of units going, and while we were there, we uh I think we s we uh I think we sold some units. We finished the sale on a success successful pre-sale.
+
+[31:25] So yeah, pre-sale's over. If you want one now, you have to go on the waiting list. I'll say this. You know what happened yesterday, John? Tell me.
+
+[31:32] They did the engineering build. Oh, yeah. Okay. So the engineering build is done. The engine the engineering build is the one that they do right before pilot to make sure that they have all of the pre-production stuff going.
+
+[31:44] And we may or may not Quinn, what was the what was the end result of our uh like apparently was illegal, but we fixed it contest or whatever it's called. Whatever we're doing. Well, we're gonna we're gonna draw that at the end of the week. Well, don't we have to wait till we have the unit? I don't think we're gonna pick the winner.
+
+[32:06] Before we have the unit? All right, whatever. Okay. Well, we got notified of me. I got their address, and you know.
+
+[32:12] All right. Uh logistics. I mean, I would like to test it first. Uh yeah. Anyway, so um, so we then the next day we did a pop-up at at Thunderbolt LA, which by the way, we thought it was the hardest bar in the world to find.
+
+[32:33] It's on a street called Temple Street, right, Stas, which I never knew the name of, but now I'm never gonna be able to forget it. And what happened is so like, you know, he's not listening, it's fine. So Harold, so Nastasia, by the way, rents a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon. So, like, I don't know if it was a hard rock Rubicon, but it was a very high-level trim of Wrangler, right? It had the snorkel coming out of the top so that we could have driven it underwater.
+
+[32:57] We didn't, at least not while I was there. Waste opportunity. But do you know what's do you know what's not easy? You know what you shouldn't wear if you're driving in a Jeep is jeans. Cause like, damn, that thing is like it's like a thousand feet in the air.
+
+[33:11] You basically you do a pull up into the Jeep, and every time we get a workout. Yeah, Nastasi was like, we look like a holes. Like, we look like we can't even get into our own car. Oh my god. But get this.
+
+[33:25] Nastasi is so hardcore, right? So, first of all, like I don't know what it's called. You have a special name for it that apparently is a secret, no one's allowed to know. So we had drinks with Aaron Polski, and Aaron was like talking to Stasi and was like, Why are you so cagey about who you rented it from? I know the person you rented it from.
+
+[33:39] So it's some secret. It's the equivalent of the C and C of here. So I think like C and C in New York City is where all the movie weasels rent like trucks from. And you just walk into a warehouse and they hand you a truck, basically. And if anything wrong happens, they break your legs.
+
+[33:54] You know what I mean? It's like it's cheap, the cars are beat up, but like that's what everyone uses. That's what Nastasi and I drove to Modernist Pantry right and when we got COVID right at the beginning of the pandemic. Remember that, Sas? Oh, yeah.
+
+[34:06] Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, she rents from this and the Jeep shows up dirty. So what'd the guy do, Stas? Gave it to us for free. Yeah.
+
+[34:15] She kept on calling. Free. Free for a whole week. Gave her a Jeep. Like in good shape.
+
+[34:20] So every time something would go wrong, she would call up. So like whoever had done it had off-roaded it, which is what we should have done. Like we had work to do, so we didn't. So they had put a slow leak into the rear tire. And Nastasi's like, you should change the tire.
+
+[34:34] I'm like, hell no. Hell no. No. I'm not gonna change that this 80 million pound Jeep tire in LA. No.
+
+[34:42] Especially because the driveway that we were on is like a 45 degree angle in the, you know, in the in Laurel Canyon. You know what I mean? It's not only is it 45 degrees, it's a foot long. It's like the car is like, yeah, anyway, it's ridiculous. So I'm like, no, I'm not gonna do that.
+
+[34:57] So I was like, yo, pull into this gas station. We pull and we got a flat fix. You guys familiar with flat fix? Yeah. So for those of you who don't know, it's a can of goop.
+
+[35:05] And you you you you make sure that the the the whatever the the Schrader valve on your tire is low, down, and you inject the whole can of goop. But I guess in LA, people don't work on their own car as much because this flat fix had been around forever and leaked all over my hand. It was like it was like flat fix from like when I was a kid. Anyway, so we inject the whole flat fix in, it gets all over the valve, totally hoses the valve. You also get to pay for air in LA.
+
+[35:30] Do you know that? I guess maybe you do here, but some places. So this guy everywhere. So we it the flat fix because it leaked didn't have enough juice to fully inflate the rear tire. So I was like, quick, drive around to coat the inside of the tire with the goop so it seals.
+
+[35:44] And then Nestasia pulled like hard pulls into another one, and there's a guy bogarding. I don't realize you're supposed to pay, right? So it's the guy bogarding the the brrrrrr the uh compressor, right? And I'm like, what the hell? And Stasi's like, he's getting air.
+
+[35:59] And I'm like, what are you talking about? So the guy finally leaves, and I realized he was bogarding it because he had paid for the air, and he didn't want us to have any of his free air. Right? But I was giving him such the stink eye that he drove off in his little LA convertible and we got just that little bit of air. I didn't have to pay for it.
+
+[36:16] Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. Anyway, so I think that's what put us over the edge for free Jeep. I don't know.
+
+[36:22] Because it it was just 200 for a while, and then he was like, ah, it's free, whatever. Right, Sas? Yeah. Yeah. And we went to Cato.
+
+[36:30] Oh, yeah. Went to Cato restaurant. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[36:33] Uh Austin uh and uh Han and uh uh I forget the other bartender, but yeah, great uh great bar program, great, great food. We uh sat at the bar with McGee, the molecules, yeah, it was good. We you I had a good meal. You guys have a good meal? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[36:51] Hey, the NA drinks that uh Han and Austin make are really impressive. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, they should be on the show soon. I'm just working out with details. Okay.
+
+[37:00] I mean they live in Los Angeles. Why are they coming over here or no? I don't know. I'm I'm I'm investigating. Okay.
+
+[37:07] You're investigating. Oh, the molecules remote studio. But um, we had to actually um we had to actually uh rush our meal at Cato, Nastasia. Why? Because Harold McGee because Harold McGee had not seen a comedy show in 20 years.
+
+[37:28] Yeah, so instead of going to a comedy show, what did we do? Uh what's it called? A suicide? Well, trigger award, but yeah, but like uh we we went to We went to a one-man show. So Nastasia has a a strange fascination.
+
+[37:51] Is that an accurate rate of case? Oh, so Jackie Molecules and Nastasia together have a strange fascination with Pauly Shore. Pauly Shore. So we go to see subscribed. Okay.
+
+[38:08] So we go to this place that I swear to God is named Flappies. Flappies. Flappers. Flappers. All right.
+
+[38:17] Because that's so much. Okay. And like we're like, I was like, what is the f what is the flappy nacho? And they're like, the name of the place is Flappies or whatever. I was like, oh geez Louise.
+
+[38:28] So we go to Flap Flapjacks, whatever in the hell it's called, and Pauly Shore does a show that is it where at the end, he's like, it's it was the most depressing show that I had seen in a long time. What about you, Nastasia? I felt we felt real bad for him. We felt real bad for him. At the end, he's like you're underselling this.
+
+[38:56] Stash has not been able to think about anything other than the sadness of middle-aged Paul Shore since that night. Yeah, yeah. No, we're like pretty much consumed her all day and all day. No, the next day, the next day we're doing a pop-up at Thunderbolt, and we're like pouring these drinks. Nastasia's mom came, her friend Pat came, Molecules was there, Harold McGee was there.
+
+[39:15] We all had those amazing trucker hats on, which we we're gonna sell. We have a couple more we can sell. By the way, Nastasia pulls like a rabbit out of a poop pile and like gets these like like the cheapest, the cheapest trucker hats, and they're freaking awesome somehow. I don't really get it. They're like creamsickle colored, and they say Booker and Dax like spins all 2.0 in the standard like cheap bubble font, and somehow they kick butt.
+
+[39:42] You're always selling Nastasia Short Dave. I don't know, I don't know what it is. Anyway, get this. So these hats, right? I won't say what they cost us because that would just be obscene, right?
+
+[39:54] Uh she's there, and so what she does is she makes a sign that says apple free with Applehead, right? Free with Applehead or $97 a piece. Okay. And this is her genius, right? Right.
+
+[40:08] Because what happens is if someone's like $97, she's like, I'm giving it to you for $40. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Excuse me, that was me cutting under the table deals. Oh, okay. Sorry, sorry, Jack.
+
+[40:23] We we good cop bad coped that situation. All right. I was like, oh, Stas wants to charge you 97, but we could do it for 40. I didn't realize. Well, I think that's a good one.
+
+[40:31] And then we did we did have a loyal fan that we had a loyal fan that insisted on paying full price for two. Shout shout out to her. I don't remember her name, but that was very kind. Dang. And then we signed him.
+
+[40:41] I'm like, well, uh like I don't really get it. I'll sign it if you want. You know what? You can you know what's very hard to do? Not get a sharpie to bleed on a cheap truck or hat when you're signing the underbill.
+
+[40:51] Is that what you call it? The underbill. Sure. Yeah. Sure.
+
+[40:54] Yeah. I kept the plastic in for the crunch effect. Lord all night. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[40:59] Anyway, uh, rousing success. So everyone, every I want everyone who can hear this who texted me and said, No one's gonna bring an applehead doll. No one's gonna bring any apple head dolls. And what happened, Stas? We got some amazing applehead dolls.
+
+[41:15] Like crazy good apple head dolls. Like uh, and I you know what? We gotta put them on let's get it together and we'll put we'll do a real one on Instagram because they were just on stories. Like that needs to be a post. First of all, I think it was I Dig Farmers.
+
+[41:31] There's a picture where I think it's I think it's him holding the two apple heads. What I thought was interesting also is the speed apple heads. So we had one that was only dehydrated for like a day, and so it was kind of soft and squidgy, but had the look of an apple head on the outside. A picture of him holding these apple heads, he looks like a Renaissance painting of like a cherub. Of like, he looks like an angel from heaven holding Appleheads.
+
+[41:56] It is a crazy picture. And then uh we had okay, the fur literally, we opened the door, and in comes. Oh, I wish I remembered their handles. Anyway, like uh uh, we'll get it. We'll get you, we'll call you out.
+
+[42:07] We'll we'll talk about it again. A hula doll with a battery. Oh, they had ripped, ripped the head off of the hula doll and the wig, and then jammed the apple head on and then put the thing on. So it's dancing. And then they had like a uh, I don't remember the name, it's like a regular doll doll, like with the like regular doll hair.
+
+[42:33] They ripped the head off of that and then shoved the doll eyes into the apple head. And that scared everyone in the bar. It was amazing. And then they had a tiny apple head doll with like a crab apple head, who looked like like weekend at Bernie's in a chair, like dead week in a Bernie's in a chair, holding an airline bottle of Fournet. Amazing.
+
+[43:00] Then later on in the evening, uh a guy I know, Ron Burnbaum, who I went to college with, but you know, but I knew I saw him last at the reunion. Shows up, get this. He was walking by the LA River, right? Which, as you know, is a culvert, right? Walking by and Nastasia won't go into it because it's illegal.
+
+[43:18] She's like, Dave, do you want to get arrested before you go by going into the LA? I'm like, yeah, kinda, kinda, you know what I mean? And her dad, who like used to work for uh ATT as a lineman, he's retired now, is like, yeah, you used to be able to go down there, but you can't. I was like, Can't you get me down? Can't you?
+
+[43:33] Like with your like, you know, utilities connection, get me down. He's like, No. I'm like, okay, here's a drink. Anyway, so like, uh, was that fairly accurate, Nastasi or no? Yeah.
+
+[43:43] You forgot to give him crap getting the uh pinky ring. So that's another. Okay, okay, okay. Okay, let me okay. We'll finish the apple head in a minute.
+
+[43:51] Nastasia goes, don't yell at me and don't say anything weird when my parents are here. I'm like, okay, so I'm gonna bother him about he was either like when you retired, okay. Stas, tell him the choices. It's your dad. You tell him what the choices are and see what these guys think.
+
+[44:05] A bike or or a generator. No pinky ring. Oh, yeah. Wait, what's the question? Hey, you're gonna get one of these three objects.
+
+[44:14] Okay. In in thanks for your service for a billion years to ATT. Okay. All right. So give me the choices.
+
+[44:23] Bike, pinky ring, generator. There's one call. Easy call. Easy call. What is it?
+
+[44:36] Guess it's gonna be the pinky ring. Pinky ring. Pinky ring. Easy. Pinky ring.
+
+[44:42] Obviously, you get the pinky ring. Obviously. Not even I didn't have to think of it for two seconds. Are you joking? One call, Stas, pinky ring.
+
+[44:52] And the family convinces him to get the bike. Boo. Don't you already have a bike? No. You also don't have a pinky ring.
+
+[45:05] Yeah. Yeah, pinky rings they call. Because who even knows? First of all, choose your own bike. Don't let ATT choose your bike for you.
+
+[45:17] Right. Yeah. Bike is so personal, right? But it's like, here's my ATT pinky ring. People are like, oh my God, you're wearing a pinky ring now.
+
+[45:25] You're like, hey, it's my retirement pinky ring. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? So cool. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[45:30] For sure. For sure. That bike's gonna get rid one time. First of all, it's LA, right? So you're like, where's the motor on this bike?
+
+[45:37] And then that's it. It's over. You know what I mean? Uh geez. Bad call.
+
+[45:43] Bad call. Bad call by all. But uh, so anyway, so he's uh Ron's down by the LA River. Apparently, there's a coffee shop by parts of the LA River right where the culvert is. I don't really understand how that happens.
+
+[45:52] I mean, I've only ever seen it in the movies with high speed car chases. I've never actually seen it in the real life. But um, he sees a rat, like a live rat, chewing on an apple. And, you know, he uh he uh you know does the does the shoe kick. You know, we won't talk.
+
+[46:12] I got in trouble for talking of, you know, Nastasi and I got in trouble for talking too much about kicking rats away from restaurant establishments in the past. So I won't bring it up again, right? I don't think he was wearing wingtips, just to bring it up a little bit. But anyway, so he shoes the rat away and he picks up the apple head, and the rat had chewed two perfect eye holes for the apple head. So it was a fresh apple head, and then he made a body out of it and like potato feet.
+
+[46:36] So it's the only fresh apple head doll we had, but it was also carved by a rat at the LA River. So I thought the apple heads were a huge success, in my opinion. Yeah. Now they're hiding in the bushes around our Airbnb that we rented. I thought your mom took them.
+
+[46:51] Hell no. All right. Well, my girlfriend wanted them. Thanks. They're night, they're nightmare fuel in the best way possible.
+
+[47:02] They're truly terrifying creation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like, uh, I'm getting to sleep too easily. I need some Freddie Krueger to keep me awake. Here you go.
+
+[47:13] Oh! And that's it. I feel like between Pauly Shore trauma and the apple heads that night, it was like a lot of it's a lot. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[47:24] Pauly Shore being like, don't worry about me. I've got nobody and nothing. I go home alone at night. It's fine. That's how he ended his show.
+
+[47:33] Yeah, it's true. That was pretty much the last act. Yeah. Yeah. He's like, my parents didn't love me.
+
+[47:41] My parents didn't love me. Uh, you know, I had bad role models. The best thing that ever happened in my life was that I used to go to the Playboy mansion a lot and like hook up with centerfolds. My ex-girlfriend turned out to be a Heidi Fleiss, uh, you know, call girl. And yeah, that all imploded, but I'm fine.
+
+[48:00] It's all good. Goodbye. Order two items of Flappies. Goodbye, good night. You know what I mean?
+
+[48:07] And there were pretty much like 20 of us. 25, I think, total in the entire venue. And you know, there were like eight of us. So yeah. It was dark.
+
+[48:19] Yeah. McGee McGee goes, I've never been to a comedy show before. We were all like, you still haven't. You still haven't. Halfway through the show, Pauly Shore goes, Paul goes, This is the whole show, people.
+
+[48:35] This is what it is. You know what I mean? Like anyway. He said, Yeah, get on board. Get on board because this ain't changing.
+
+[48:42] It's staying like this the whole time. And like this guy named Dave, so it was all like projections. It was like, imagine you showed like the slideshow of your vacation, but instead of that, it's your whole life. All right. Like this is your life situation with music.
+
+[48:57] And he's like, the music's supposed to get louder there, Dave. Like the whole time. And he would break into like the the weasel character of What's and Well, and we're like, we we didn't see that. We don't know. I don't know.
+
+[49:09] I didn't watch those shows. Did anyone watch those shows? I've never even seen Bio Dome. I've never seen Biodome. I've never seen Bio Dome.
+
+[49:19] Why would I? Why would you go see him live now? If you didn't see Bio Dome before, why would you go see him live now? It wasn't my idea. Why?
+
+[49:26] I don't I'm not a co-cap. You brought me, you made me go to the first Pauly Shore show. Oh yeah, man. Wait a minute. This is the third show.
+
+[49:35] This is the third, I believe, Pauly Shore show that Nastasia Lopez and Jack Moloch Jackie Molecules have gone to in the past year. This is the second show. No, no, no, Dave. Third. And we went to the we went to the comedy show, uh, the comedy store.
+
+[49:50] He was one of like 12 comedians we saw that night. It was 10 minutes of Pauly Short. Nastasia and Jordana went to a Pauly Shore concert. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or show.
+
+[50:00] I did not go to that. Okay. You can clear my name here. You're painted with the same same brush, Merlot, man. I know, I see this.
+
+[50:09] It's rough. Yeah. So anyway, so if you're in the LA uh area, which I'm actually gonna have to go back to pretty soon. Oh, get this. Speaking of LA, yeah, I'm gonna I have to go back.
+
+[50:21] Uh I don't know if I'm in and out. I'm doing something for uh Bar Smarts. I don't know where yet or what's going on. Um get this. I lost.
+
+[50:29] I forgot what I was gonna say. Doesn't matter. I guess it wasn't here's the thing. Just here's a lie that your parents tell you. If you forgot it, it wasn't important.
+
+[50:38] Wrong. Not correct. Uh anyway. Dave, we have seven hats, we have seven hats left. If you want a spinball hat, email me.
+
+[50:48] We're gonna put the picture of it up on the free game on the what's it called? We're gonna do a post, right? Also, sincere honesty, everyone who ordered a spins all too, thank you so much. We appreciate it. We appreciate you putting your trust in us.
+
+[51:01] We're getting those things built. They're gonna be good. Um, what's up, caller? You're on the air. Hi, how's it going?
+
+[51:09] Going well. How's it going? Glad to hear it. Hey, uh I uh can't complain. Uh here in the Midwest, uh the weather has turned.
+
+[51:18] We are now into shorts and hoodie season, which is kind of a a magical couple of days that we get before things get really real with the Midwestern winters and whatnot. Uh yeah, had a had a meat glue question. There you go. I I I might have an answer since I've glued so many meats together in my life. No joke.
+
+[51:35] Yeah, you you were just talking about it a couple of weeks ago, and I was like, God, I wish I had had time to call in that time. So um I have some boneless uh some lamb shoulder that uh I took the bone out of, so it's kind of flappy. Um I would like to glue it down into one nice cohesive piece because I'm gonna cook it uh sous vide and then cut it into steaks and then like kind of brown it off and and uh uh serve it to like a big farm to table dinner thing I got coming up in a couple of weeks. Um so my question is what is the uh meat gluing, cooking, cooling, then reheating procedure. Uh because if I remember right, it's been a long time since I've uh been around anything that's been meat glued, but I I feel like if I remember right, if you like take it straight from the water bath to an ice bath, it like busts the bond or something like that.
+
+[52:25] I'm pretty sure. No, no, no, it's good. So like the thing with uh the thing with the meat glue, uh, first of all, uh you need to put some porta potties at the event and have it be farmed at toilet. The plate is not the end. It's not the end.
+
+[52:37] It's the circle of poop. Yeah. Anyway, so yes, uh like if you're bonding uh raw meat, right, you want to like sprinkle it in. You you you the best way to bond is actually not a heat bond. It's it's a time bond, right?
+
+[52:54] So you you put it in and the it you have a vac machine. So I would glue it all together and then vac it down. And then that's that that was the plan. Glue it together, vac it really hard for a day, and then cook it the following yeah. You're done.
+
+[53:07] You're good. You don't need to worry about it. So the bond strength. Yeah, the bond strength is going to be, I would say it depends on how much you get in there and which meat glue you're using. Are you using the one that modernist pantry sells, mooglu?
+
+[53:20] Yeah, one of them. I don't remember if it's TM or RM, but I got the moo glue. Yeah, I thought it was uh it's not RS. Anyway, so like look at what it is. Like most of it has like the casein binder in it, right?
+
+[53:31] Uh there's either the the two most common ones are the gelatin binder and the casein binder. Uh and I I'm pretty sure I got the casein one. Yeah, RM. Yeah, RM, that's RM, right? Yeah.
+
+[53:41] It's been a long time since I remember the acronyms. But like, so the that's the one I have the most experience with. That the gelatin binder, which what was that? G B, right? The gelatin binder one is good.
+
+[53:52] It's really good. Uh, you know, and it also doesn't have casein, so it's you know, useful if people don't want to have the casein. But the the uh the issue with it is it's very high tack. So it's not as uh repositionable as the RM is, right? So you sprinkle it in there and don't go, I mean, get enough into all the parts.
+
+[54:10] Don't go ape, ape, ape, ape crap with it. If you do go ape crap with it, I recommend cutting it out of the bag and putting it into a new bag before you cook it if you're gonna sous vide it. If you go ape crap. Yeah, that's something. Yeah, for sure.
+
+[54:24] Yeah. Cool. Yeah, and uh you're should be fine. The strength should be like on the same order as like intermuscular, like when you're ripping the flap off of uh off of a ribeye or something. Fantastic.
+
+[54:37] Good, good to know. I appreciate it. Yeah. Four hours, at least four hours, and then you're good. Yep, I'm I'm planning on doing it overnight.
+
+[54:43] I uh at the very least. Yeah, you're you're winning. You're winning. Even the f even fat cap stuff should glue back on. There's enough connective tissue in it.
+
+[54:49] That bond won't be as strong, but it'll work. Good to know. Uh yeah, I'm trying to try to minimize uh how crazy I go with the fat cap. I mean, I did get a I did get basically a lamb and a half, and I'm gonna do uh sort of a porchetta porchetta-esque sort of situation with the loin and belly. Uh-huh.
+
+[55:07] And then I got all the leg one seamed out, and then the shoulder, like I said, it's just kind of flappy, kind of the way that a bone the shoulder looks when you take the bone out of it. So just wanted to get it back into one nice piece so I can cut beautiful portions of it. On the porchetta, you're gonna glue you gonna glue the skin around it? You're gonna glue it? Uh well, it's not an actual porchetta, it's like porchetta shape, porketaloid.
+
+[55:25] Oh. Uh the just the loin the the loin of the of the lamp connected to the belly of it, and then I'm just gonna roll it up. The skin on it. And uh, this one didn't have the skin when it came to the butcher shop, so no skin on this one. I want someone to try the Danish style pork or it could be lamb on a porchetta and tell me whether it works or not.
+
+[55:47] I'm assuming it's gonna work. I just I just saw uh a clip on Instagram where somebody just took like a pork loin and they butterfly it, stuffed it, and then rolled it, and then separately boiled pork belly and wrapped it, torsioned it super nice and tight, then cooked it sous-vede and then dropped the whole thing in the fryer. And uh it looked pretty, pretty crunchy, crispy, crunchy, sexy, tasty, yum yum time. Hmm. All right.
+
+[56:12] Well, you know, maybe if we invite them over to our house, we can try it and see whether it was good. Number. Sure, sure, sure. Speaking of skin, I'd I have you ever uh this is a trick that I saw that kind of blew my mind that makes perfect sense, and I'm just I'm just throwing it out there because if you haven't heard of it, then hey, maybe you learned something. Um it was a guy from an English restaurant, and they would make they would cook ham hocks, cook them overnight, they would peel the skin off of them, and then they would puree the skin with some of the juice of the brazing liquid, and then they pick the ham hocks and they made this ham hock terrine that was bound sp entirely with just like the skin pu skin puree.
+
+[56:49] I've never done that, but that's that's what I do with I mean that's how I make that's my sta my standard thing for my pork chili is I I cook the skins off with it, then remove the skins and blend it into the sauce. Brilliant it's hard as a rock when it when when when you when it sets up, it sets up ping pong ball nice. You know what I mean? And it's like but it's not so like you know you ever have someone when they uh when they they're like, Oh, I reduce this so much, and you're like, it's too much. Like when the gelatin starts setting in your mouth, like when you're like when you're yeah, it's too much.
+
+[57:23] But yeah, you just want to start. That's a delicate that's a that's a delicate balance to strike with like the demi, the heavily reduced pork sauces and stuff. It's like, how do you uh yeah, it's just it's a delicate balance. I I honestly mostly use uh some sort of like starch to thicken to finish sauces just because I think the mouthfeel for me is a little bit and it's a little bit more user friendly too, especially when you're doing a five course dinner for 150 people. Uh you want to have a little bit of flexibility with your textures and stuff.
+
+[57:50] Especially if you go pre-gelatinized. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm, man. I appreciate it.
+
+[57:55] Let us know how it goes. Hit us up on the uh on the social. Let us know how it goes. Oh, and speaking of social, uh, I was told by somebody that if you like this program, you should uh rate us on uh your the platform of your choice, preferably with a large number of stars because it helps us bring you more content and uh you know helps get our reach out there to people. I'm told I should say that in every episode.
+
+[58:15] And you follow at cooking issues in that book and box. Yeah, and you know how many times I said that? Zero. Zero. All right, Ben S says, what are your thoughts on this mini vacuum distiller setup?
+
+[58:24] Has anyone seen or used one before? From uzmlab.com. It's in uh Japanese, but it's also not a vacuum still, Ben. That is just a stovetop still that they added a thump or two to try to get uh a higher alcohol out of it. Uh so not a vacuum still.
+
+[58:38] Unless there's something else, so send me that. Alex Goten says, uh, does Dave have any opinions on the kegcoat.com soda carbonated water single tap mini kegerator. So what that this is what this is is a mini keg inside of a fridge with a tap on it. It's gonna work okay, I guess, depending on how well you carbonate the water in, but it doesn't automatically fill. I had an idea, which I don't have time to talk about today, but if someone asked me for it, I had an idea to actually make a system that works with a kegerator in this, like that's not too complicated.
+
+[59:06] But someone has to someone has to ask me to talk about it. Cheaper, a little bit of a kludge, but you know, my whole life is clutch. That's what we should have called this clutches, kitchen clutches. Uh I literally wrote how to write a program for the Museum of Food and Drinks. I'm building these little flavor pumps and my program sucks.
+
+[59:21] And so, like one of the variables I put in is literally called int Cludge because it's just something I had to add to the program to get it to work because my programming skills suck. Alexander said. Question for Dave Andrew Harold Water aging of beef, what does it actually do? And how does it work? So, this is the technique.
+
+[59:35] Ready? You take a vacuum bag and you throw it into an aquarium and the water is temperature controlled and you're bubbling it, and you hold it in there like you were holding it in the fridge. Does it make any sense to you? Why don't you just hold it in the fridge? Exactly.
+
+[59:49] So uh Googa Eats, you know, who has eight billion zillion followers, did it and said there was uh a difference, and Alexander like doesn't really understand why the difference is. Now, I looked at what they were doing, and here's a problem Quinn was talking earlier about how they had an N of one, one chicken. He had an N of one. He did one experiment, right? So you would need to do like 20, 30 experiments to see whether his result, because he had a difference.
+
+[1:00:10] The Googie Eats guy for like 20 days had one in an aquarium in a fridge that he didn't open with a bubbler, and then one in the fridge, and then one, I think dry aged. And the one when he pulled it out, it was clearly there was more met myoglobin on the one that had been like it was gray, the one that had been in the aquarium, and he said it tasted sour, so it had some slight lactic stuff going on. So, what I'm gonna say is is that a lot of this has to do with one, that could just happen because there's lactobacillus in the bag. Two, I don't know what the oxygen permeability of his bags uh are. So uh, you know, if he has some bags are more oxygen permeable than others, but the one that's in the water, even with a bubbler is gonna have less oxygen, and that's probably where the met myoglobin happened, and maybe what was uh able to cause, like even at those low temperatures, some lactobacillus growing over that long period of time.
+
+[1:00:56] So that's what I think is going on. I think you need more ends, and we need to know more about the bags he was using. Uh, I love rye bread. Just bought some Moviel 1830 cook pots and was made of three layers of aluminum sandwich between two layers of stainless. And you know, the reason for that is to spread it out more, right?
+
+[1:01:09] So it doesn't go straight through, so it makes fewer hot spots because it has to go through the slow, stainless, thin layer of it before it gets to the next fast aluminum. Anyway, it says that he should not be using it on induction at any more than two thirds power because it's gonna ruin the pots. And uh the question is is that fine when you're boiling water? They also have the old school stuff about not putting salt into the water until it's fully boiling. Remember that?
+
+[1:01:30] Because they're worried that like salt would pit the uh yeah. I don't ever follow that instruction. I'll throw salt right in my pan, man. Don't tell me what to do with my pan. It's my pan now.
+
+[1:01:38] Listen, what they're worried about is that uh if you put it on full power that you're gonna boil it dry and destroy the pan. That's what they're worried about. So if you're not gonna boil it dry and destroy the pan, when there's a lot of water in it, you can crank that sucker. But you know, I'm not gonna pay for your pan if it gets messed up. All right, gonna come back next week.
+
+[1:01:52] Uh actually, am I here next week or am I in Berlin next week? Quinn? Is it the week after that I'm in Berlin? No, they're awesome. I don't know.
+
+[1:02:01] We'll figure it out. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City. New Stan Studios joined as usual with John here in the studio. How are you doing, John? Doing great, thanks.
+
+[0:23] Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[0:26] Yeah. Got uh Joe rocking the panels. What's up? Hey, how you guys doing? Looking good.
+
+[0:30] Oh yeah, well, I'm looking wet. I'm wet. Uh we have so the murmurs you're hearing in the background uh are Nastasia the Hammer Lopez is picking up in a car, uh Nick Captain Oily, the oil man, olive oil, Nick Coleman, uh, who's uh gonna be our guest from Los Angeles uh this week. But strangely, like she hit traffic in LA, and I know that nobody could have foreseen that there would be traffic in LA, but that's what happened. So they'll be in a stationary location soon, and maybe we'll sound better.
+
+[0:59] You guys can uh hear me there, okay or no? It's kind of like when you can't find a dock with your city bank in midtown, and every time you're like, Yeah, but I make it. Yeah, but I make it on time every time, Nastasia. I have not been late since we were at Voldemort Network. All right?
+
+[1:13] That's not true. It is absolutely 100% true. And, you know, whatever. I'm just saying. Uh and we don't have Quinn today.
+
+[1:26] He's trying to get his uh, you know, from uh Vancouver Island. He's trying to get his morning routine uh back into some sort of normal schedule so that we can have him back on his normal routine, hopefully starting next week. And Jackie Molecules is in Tokyo, and I would love to hear what he's doing, but he is walking home because it's 1 a.m. in Tokyo right now, and he said, Hey, so he's there. How you doing?
+
+[1:48] Hi. Hey. So uh I'm here. All right. So since since uh I'm gonna leave that there.
+
+[1:53] Since we uh since we might lose you at any minute, although it's you sound it sounds amazingly quiet. Is are the streets dead? Are like streets like completely dead? They're not. I found a semi-quiet corner.
+
+[2:05] I'm walking back to Shibuya. It's one in the morning. We just had delicious pizakaya dinner and went to a one of these hi-fi bars, but this hi-fi bar played nothing but noise and like really aggressive industrial metal and noise music. Oh, I don't like that for a bar. I mean, it was it was extremely Tokyo, I'll say that.
+
+[2:30] Like like old noise industrial, like stuff from the 90s that I would know, or like new stuff. I mean, it was so noisy, it was just like screeching, you know, like industrial sounds. It was a it was hardly even yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. Uh that's unpleasant.
+
+[2:49] Was it like I could imagine like uh if I'm trying to imagine the vibe, was it also loud? Like what if they played that, but it was so soft? Extremely oh my uh god. That is why did you go to that bar? Did you not know?
+
+[3:03] As soon as I walked in the door, I would have been like, nope. Goodbye. I knew I was I was kind of in the mood. I don't know. I wanted I wanted to push push things.
+
+[3:12] There is no drink on earth that would make me want to do that. Unless okay, was it a hundred percent people who were solo, or were there any other people there like you with multiple folk? No, it's always the weirdest people there. It's the second time I've been to this place. I came a few years ago.
+
+[3:30] Um it's a return punishment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, maybe it was the maybe it was the unpasteurized sake that we drank tonight that pushed us in this direction. Man, man. So you can't talk, you can't concentrate, your ears are bleeding, and you're getting more aggressive with every second.
+
+[3:49] Sounds like a perfect place to serve you alcohol. Yeah, basically. Or is it like hyper craft? What's hilarious is then if they're very put together, like buttoned up high craft stuff. Oh no, it's just like fast pouring out, like down your throat and out the door kind of thing.
+
+[4:05] Yeah. Just beers. They're pouring beers, yeah. Pretty much. All right.
+
+[4:09] Well, at least at least you don't have to theoretically enjoy anything. You can just do a 15-minute in-out, dip in, dip out. Pretty much. That's the vibe. All right, right.
+
+[4:19] We'll talk about the food. Give me some food. Never if we ever go to Tokyo together, never take me to that place. I will not take you to that place. It would not be good.
+
+[4:30] Yeah, no, not. But there are really good listening bars. Um, no, we we went to Sushi Masuda. We had an incredible meal there. Um, we've had a what was the best and worst thing you had there?
+
+[4:41] Was there anything bad? Was there anything bad? No, there wasn't anything bad. You know how like the omakastes usually follow the same script, and it's like you get the tuna, the medium tuna, the fatty tuna, the e like it all goes in the same order. Well, what's the special seasonal?
+
+[4:58] They threw a lot of curveballs in. It wasn't even the same like run of show as the usual omakase. So that was cool. Like there were some cooked cooked courses in the middle of everything, and um Yeah, it was good. So you're saying you're saying not just run not run of the mill, because there's one of the mill, there's one of the mill run of the mill.
+
+[5:16] Then there's seasonal run of the mill, and you're saying this is beyond even seasonal run of the mill. Yeah. Like the when Nastasia and I were there, everything was that freaking like pike, that like, you know, whatever that, like with the one with the million bones that they have to chop up like a like a thousand times to cut through all the tiny bones so you could eat it. And we were like, we get it, we get it. It's only in season for two weeks.
+
+[5:38] Why do I have to be here during those two weeks? You know what I mean? Like what's the what's the thing that's hyper? Uh abalone, I think was um one of the yeah, one of the more interesting courses uh in that meal. How'd they do it?
+
+[5:51] A big old, big old piece of abalone. Basically, I think it was steamed. Yeah. Um sure, yeah. Steve steams are boiled.
+
+[5:59] It was it was a big old piece. Um and it was really good. And was it uh was it on the chewy side, tough side, tender side? It was more tender than I expected it to be. Yeah.
+
+[6:10] Best abalone I ever had was in Hong Kong. Super, super Oh, really? Yeah. Oh my god, best. Oh my god, huge, huge, like you say, not like pounded into oblivion like we get here in the in the States most of the time.
+
+[6:23] And like just freaking so good. I don't know what they did to it. I know it was like oh I you know, they were like taking them from live to my plate, but I don't know what they were doing to them. You know what I mean? Uh I'd have no idea what they were doing except for making them delicious.
+
+[6:38] I don't cook that stuff because I will say this lastly, Dave. We um we had conveyor belt sushi today, and I'm I'm I'm curious to know how you would uh handle that experience. Well, Joe is like two Joe is very pro. He gets really yeah, he gave the he gave the the truck horn, the truck horn motion. You know what I'm talking about?
+
+[6:55] Oh, okay, I didn't hear that. Yeah, yeah. Just delicious. For me, it was too much because it's like I just want everything. And when it's coming in a conveyor belt, I have no self-control.
+
+[7:05] And I'm like, oh, another another salmon row. Yeah, why not? Sure, okay. Eel, yeah, let's do it. And then next thing you know, I've had 20 plates of sushi, and I'm feeling sick, you know.
+
+[7:14] You know, I have no self-control. What's that? Uh what's that 80s song? Yeah, sell self-control. Da da da dot.
+
+[7:21] You got it going through my head, but I can't remember what the actual song is. Da da da. You lose yourself. You lose your self-control. What song is that?
+
+[7:30] And the night. You know the song, like what is uh what's the song? It's like 80s. Anyway, now you gotta go in through my head, but like only snippets because they can't remember the whole song. Woman sings it.
+
+[7:41] Uh anyway, it's like it was from a movie or some crap. Anywho, uh my feeling on it is uh get some self-control, my man, right? I mean, the good thing is is I can I can just hit the eel real hard. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, if I'm one of those things, because first of all, let's be honest, everyone's like, oh, uh, you know, it's a good test.
+
+[8:02] Like, everyone's like, oh, the the the the tomato's a good test, see whether they make a good omelet, but you know, I like them at the end, but I don't want to pound a lot of those early on, right? You know, and then everyone's like, oh, the eel's a good test, but really it's not because 99% of people just buy that thing, right? And then are putting it on top of the putting it on top of the rice. And I have to say, standard, like the standard like uh uh unagi, it's really good. It's good.
+
+[8:28] I'll eat the hell out of it. It really is. I mean, like, you know, hum hum, you know what I mean? I'll take that over. Uh well, what to you?
+
+[8:37] What's the filler? What's the one you wish you hadn't picked up? Oh, that's a good question. Um I'm looking at Eliza and wondering what the filler was. That's rough.
+
+[8:50] The shrimp was good. Sometimes the shrimp can be the filler, but this shrimp was pretty good. Yeah. Are you do you like the cooked shrimp or do you like the the the raw sweet shrimp? No, raw.
+
+[9:01] Raw. Raw. Oh, yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah.
+
+[9:04] I'm like a big tuna guy. Sorry. I took way too many pieces of tuna. Which style? Uh, you know, Otoro, the fattiest.
+
+[9:11] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. This stuff where you get the least of it per fish, so you're trying to make them extinct as fast as humanly possible. Yeah, it's very inhumane. Uh I, you know, all of those tuna things, I like them a lot.
+
+[9:26] Oh my god. The demos, oh my god, the demos they used to do back when the Gohan Society, it was like hooking up with all the fish purveyors and the Japanese restaurants in New in New York City. The French Culinary Institute had the most ridiculous demonstrations. And so they back when Kindai tuna, I don't even know if it's still a thing, was claiming that um they were claiming that they had completely like closed circle tuna farming. So not like, you know how like when you get farm tuna, really what they're doing is catching juveniles, putting them in a pen and overfeed feeding them, causing pollution and then harvesting stuff that's really wild caught, right?
+
+[10:02] That's how it works. So Kindai was saying that they were doing closed cycle farming of tuna, uh, and that they were the first people that did it, and they brought a giant whole one into the FCI and then like butchered it for and we were like eating the eating the cuts right out of the butchered tuna. Oh my god, was it delicious? So I'm saying I love the product, but I tend not to order it just because like I just don't want to be a part of it. You know what I mean?
+
+[10:25] I I love it. If someone serves it to me, I'm not like I won't eat that, because I obviously will. But I'm like, I feel I don't know, I just don't, I just don't order it. I haven't ordered it in a long time. You know what I mean?
+
+[10:35] Well, when it's on a can when it's on a conveyor belt, you know, someone's gotta take it. What are your feelings on the tuna that's been hard gassed so that it looks like uh it looks like uh I don't know I can't even describe that color like ketchup color or whatever it is like that like super bright color what are your feelings oh yeah no no no no no no no huh yeah yeah uh what are your feelings on uh oh I know what I was gonna say the sweet shrimp here's the thing like if it's thin like big pieces of it there's a certain texture to uncooked like decopod crustaceans like uncooked lobster and uncooked it uh shrimp it's kind of like weird because it's it is resilient but also kind of pasty at the same time if that makes sense it is yeah it does yeah I don't know if I can get behind the paste. Ah when it's good it's good though. I don't know. When it's good it's good.
+
+[11:30] I mean I love seeing like a tank with the f the shrimp being all like and then like you know what I mean and I'm like you've been murdered from me you know what I mean and you eat it right away I mean it's good. You ever you ever when you're at the beach pick up a shrimp out of the water and eat it no wait you haven't done it John John's also shaking his head you with your gray shrimp your Belgian gray shrimp you never ate one before you brought it to your grandma no what the hell many I was like nine ten eleven years old be like that's a shrimp those things are also pain in the hands to peel pain in the neck to peel. Yeah yeah well you don't need to I guess not yeah I mean I'm especially a little uh ecrivice no that's uh crevette grease crevette grease grease are you guys talking about like you guys literally catching wild shrimp like with your hands yeah, when you're at the beach, you look down. If it's if like so if it's near low tide and you're on a flat, right? You look down and your feet are only in like a like a couple of inches of water.
+
+[12:29] Yeah, when it's that thin, you can see the shrimp. Sure, but they're freaking fast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you have a bucket. Yeah.
+
+[12:36] Okay. Not just your hands. No. No, no, no. Wild caught shrimp.
+
+[12:40] Hand caught wild shrimp. I mean, like, you know, look, my legs were fast, but my hands were my legs were slow, but my hands were fast. No, no, I'm not like that. Like uh, uh, but you know, when you were a kid, you never like hang out in a river and try to catch minnows ever. Yeah, I didn't ever ate one of those.
+
+[12:54] It didn't seem appealing. No. And also the hack and sack river, so polluted. Like I was barely allowed to put my hand in the hack and sack river when I was a kid. It was so polluted.
+
+[13:03] It was just one stream of mercury. It was like, you know, the worst. The worst. Uh all right. So how much longer are you in uh in Tokyo there, Jack?
+
+[13:13] And what else do you have on your docket for I'm here here till October 10th? Oh, so good long time. A week. Are you uh going going to any other places? Are you staying in uh I mean there's enough to see in Tokyo for you know months, but are you going anywhere else or no?
+
+[13:27] Deep diving. We're deep diving Tokyo. Yeah, we're gonna stick around here. We may do like a day in Hakone, but um we're pretty much here. So do you have any really like off-the-wall food stuff that you're gonna do?
+
+[13:42] And or beverage? Um look so I I have a friend here who is best described as a bon vivant, I'd say. And he claims to have some good leads on very good bear meat. And I've told him the only thing I've heard about bear was from you, and you said it wasn't great. Not the bear we had, the bear we had.
+
+[14:03] The bear you had, right? Yeah, he claimed that the bear he knows hunters, and he said, No, the bear in Tokyo is so good, I'm gonna find you something. So it's all from Hokkaido, though. There's no bears in Tokyo, at least. Okay.
+
+[14:15] Well, true enough. True enough. True enough. The bear meat is here, but the bears are not here. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[14:14] Well, listen, I want to know. I want to know when you when you get the bear, I want to know. Like, first of all, I've you know heard the paw is a delicacy. I don't know how it's cooked, I'm assuming praised. Uh I want to know where the bear was from.
+
+[14:33] I want to know like kind of what age the bear is and like what makes good bear and bad bear, right? Because my bear, no good. No good. Yeah, so so I've heard. Yeah.
+
+[14:44] I'm I'm hoping to get the good bear here. I saw an interview with uh Zimmern where he was asked what meats, and he says he's never had a muskrat he's liked. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[14:59] Anyway. Uh uh. Musk rat. Delicious. Uh so uh Mr.
+
+[15:06] Oil, are you guys stationary yet or no? Yeah. We're stationary and a fine pastry. Of course you are. Uh so Nick, uh, first of all, welcome back.
+
+[15:21] Thank you so much. It's an honor to be on your wonderful program. Yeah, are you recording this so that we can get something that doesn't sound like you're talking into a uh into a bucket? I don't know what you're asking of us. Yeah.
+
+[15:35] So there's this thing on your phone that allows you to record your own voice. And then uh, you know, I know you musicians probably aren't down with it, and then send it to us so that we have a higher quality voice file for the people who are listening later. But let's just assume that you're not. Uh I'm completely unaware of that reality. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[15:53] So uh wait so speaking of that, you're in Los Angeles to uh play music, are you not? What do you what are you doing there? You uh you're playing with action brons and the bass. I am playing bass with my band, which is uh Dr. Baklava and the human growth hormone.
+
+[16:09] Yeah. And uh also in LA to be on your show. Oh no. Well, you could have done that in New York, my man. So you're not so this is a separate tour from the one you were doing before.
+
+[16:18] This is the fall tour, yeah. Right. No, in other words, but you before you were playing bass with action bronson, but this is just your band, which he is not a part of. No, no, no. No, the it's the band with action bronson is called Dr.
+
+[16:31] Baklava. All right. And the human growth hormone. Which are you? Are you the baklava or the growth hormone?
+
+[16:37] I'm I'm one of the hormones. Oh, you're one of the hormones. All right. Human growth hormone. All right.
+
+[16:43] I like that. H G A. I see. I see. Uh now what kind of bass do you play?
+
+[16:51] Uh normally I play uh left-handed 32-inch Carl Thompson Olivewood bass. Of course it's Olivewood. In this band, I'm playing a 1998 Epiphone reissue of the Gibson EB1, aka the McCartney bass, which is a 32-inch left-handed four-string bass, but it's violin shaped. Yeah, weak. Uh listen, uh on your Olivewood.
+
+[17:15] I hate that bass. Listen, I detest it. That's fine. Like people like it, like not my style. Listen, uh, on the Olivewood bass is style.
+
+[17:23] I'm a old, I'm I'm Fender P jazz guy. Uh James Jamerson style. Yeah, yeah. Come on. Or like, you know, if I have to do something different, like a stingray.
+
+[17:32] Anyway, uh so listen, and uh I have four string only. I'm glad we can agree at least on four string. It's uh you know, a bass. Yeah equals four string people my age, right? So like I'm of the age when bass quote unquote became important again.
+
+[17:44] So like everyone started moving to like five and six strings. I was like, I was like, if you can't say it with four, you don't need to say it. You know what I mean? I'm having enough trouble with four. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[17:59] Uh so I used to like a fretless though. Yeah. Could you play well and beautifully with intonation and and grace? Uh that was not the style of music I played. Uh beautifully.
+
+[18:13] I wouldn't say beautifully, but yes, I was technically extremely proficient. Um, this is a whole other game. Yeah. The uh but uh the Olivewood bass, is it one of those ones where the it's uh the neck is through body, so like the the neck extends all the way through, and is it one of those kind of situations or no? It's not a bolt-on, but it's not a neck through.
+
+[18:36] It's it's a Carl Thompson signature style. They're they're each handmade one by one by Carl himself and his very small team in Carroll Gardens in Brooklyn. Brooklyn bass. He built a bunch of guitars for Lou Reed. He built guitars for Les Claypool, he built the guitars for Hank Williams the third.
+
+[18:55] He's the man. So he's not a he's not opposed to making a ridiculous bass if he makes them for Les Claypool. Does he make them with like the all the weird curly? Didn't Les Claypool have all the weird curlies on his one of his basses? That's that's those are all Carl Thompson bass.
+
+[19:08] Yeah. Same guy. Yeah. Les Claypool, man. I wish I don't know, whatever.
+
+[19:13] Let's not get into it. I don't have time to discuss my feelings on Primus or my feelings about Primus on this show. Otherwise it would be Primus issues, which we can't talk about. Are you also doing uh doing bansouri at the same time? Do you ever like drop the bass and Vansuri up?
+
+[19:28] I I keep the bass slung around my chest while Van Surying it. Um, sweet. Love it. Let me ask you a question now, uh, just so I can get a feeling for you. Feel me.
+
+[19:41] So, how high are you one of those people that like has the bass up around their neck, or are you one of those people who has the bass down low or somewhere in between? No, I'm not a Chris Novaselich, which is the low knee level bass. Right. But I'm also not a Victor Wooten, which is like the chess style bass. I'm a little more like the Johnny Greenwood, where the bass is kind of right around the belt, but the neck is coming up almost like an upright bass.
+
+[20:07] So I have my fingers right next to my eyes. All right, so it's kind of like if you're gonna do that, the reason to do that is if you're the kind of guy that pushes the neck in and out as you're playing with like with the rhythm, like like so you can have it up there and like move back and forth. Because if it's it's harder to do when it's low down because the angle is also I never really like the ankle of a I never really played also with the neck parallel to the ground because what the hell is that? Like you're it's not ideal for your fingers. It sucks.
+
+[20:33] Yeah, it's not a machine gun. Yeah, yeah. And I'll if you're played too low, most people I played too who played super low are either just like two-finger it or picking it the whole time. They can't, they're not doing any like super interesting right hand work or for you left hand work, but you know what I'm saying. Um I got nice, but it's all about almost mimicking like the upright bassists in the sense that they just stand there and the the neck is totally vertical.
+
+[21:03] It's like, how do you kind of get that from an electric bass while standing up? And I actually think this uh EB1 um reissue thing is really good for that. Yeah, the dumbest bass thing I ever did was I took my original bass, my first one that I ever bought, which was a 1980, uh like a 1988, I think, uh Fender, Japanese Fender P jazz with uh active electronics, it was raspberry colored, so it was cost me almost nothing because nobody else wanted to buy it. And I cut I cut into it a little place so I could put an extra high string above the low string so that I could I could tune it like a like a bass banjo and it sucked. I ruined it.
+
+[21:48] I ruined the bass. Yeah. Sounds like I really wanted that whole banjo thing to work. And uh yeah, it just didn't make they make a bass joke. Yeah, but I don't know, just like because I was doing a lot of bass work towards the end where I was doing a lot of you know, bleed me, like a lot of like, you know, three three finger, like three finger, like the the two bottom fingers go up and the thumb goes down, kind of fingering.
+
+[22:12] And um, so I thought maybe with that extra banjo string I could do some cool stuff, but it turns out instead what I what I was doing was ruining my bass. And then I stopped and I didn't even have time to get good with the ruined bass because then I stopped playing with uh with a band, so whatever, whatever. You know, it's life. You ruined you ruin everything and it's over. What anyone out there is thinking about playing an instrument, just just do it.
+
+[22:39] It's really the best thing to have in your life to be able to express yourself through music at any given moment. And if you buy an instrument, even like a cheap instrument, you just like take the most basic care of it. There's no reason it won't last a lifetime. Yeah, that's why when I bought my son, uh, you know, or helped him buy a guitar for you know Christmas or whatever it was, I got a good one because it's not going to go down in value as long as he doesn't abuse it. And it's and it's a pleasure to play.
+
+[23:08] Aren't they sitting on the floor of your storage unit? No, no, those are my bases. Okay. No. Uh I I bought him a non.
+
+[23:16] So the standard guitar for the standard, like just blank guitar for like a kid in our neighborhood, his age, is some form of strat. Oh caster. Right. Not of it's not the a various strat Ocaster. Right.
+
+[23:32] Uh, not a lot of telly people. So I was able to get him a really good deal on an American uh Fender telly because ain't nobody want a telly around here. And I was like, plenty of freaking amazing people play tellies and it's a great guitar. Did you get them a thin line? Uh what was it?
+
+[23:49] It was an American. I forget the what it was a specific one that was. Does it have the violin cut out? No, I mean it looks like an old standard telly. Oh, it doesn't have the violin cut out, so it's not a thin line.
+
+[24:00] Yeah, it looks like a standard telly. But it has uh something about the I forget because it's I can't picture it in my head. That the brid the bridge is a little bit different from a standard telly. It's like some sort of upgraded, whatever. It sounds like a telly, it looks like a telly.
+
+[24:13] Right, right, right. Is a telly. Yeah, telly's a classic. I love the simplicity of the tellies. Yeah, right.
+
+[24:19] I'd take it way over over a strat. Really? Oh my god, I can't stand strats. Really? I don't like it.
+
+[24:25] I just don't like them. They just sound like the P90s. I'm like so tired of it. Here's here's the here's the other thing, right? Like, my like everyone's like, I need that whammy bar.
+
+[24:34] No, you don't. No, you don't. Yeah, you'll you'll just go out of tune real quick. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, why would you unless you play the kind of music where you need to be like, first of all, like learn to bend yourself, man.
+
+[24:44] Learn to use your hands to bend the freaking notes. And if you need to, like do the do the neck myrrh. You don't need to like drop your strings down to nothing and then pull them back up and pray that they stay in tune. You just don't need it unless you're playing a very specific kind of music, in my opinion. Unless you're what's his name from Flying Breeder Brothers who has got that built-in B bender on his B string.
+
+[25:05] Wait, just on the one string? Just on the B string because you can't bend down. Look it up. I mean, but you can bend down. I was just mean you can't bend up.
+
+[25:15] Oh. Oh, yeah. You can't, it's hard to bend the neck the other way. Because it's got this built-in thing. As soon as you talk as soon as you pull on the neck, it bends the B string for you.
+
+[25:24] It's awesome. You can bend. I want to say you can bend down by starting the string. And go for it. Yeah, yeah, right.
+
+[25:33] Right. You pull the you pull the note pulled on the neck. You know what I mean? Before you hit the string and then let it go normal and you bend down. But look it up, the B bender, it's all built into the strap.
+
+[25:45] So as soon as you push down on the neck, the strap has a built-in mechanism that bends the string for you. It's awesome. I like this. Great. Bass and guitar issues.
+
+[25:56] Welcome to bass and guitar issues. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh all right.
+
+[26:00] So let's talk about oil for a minute here, Nick. So I have ordered one of your oils. Um using the Patreon, using the Patreon discount. So people should know if you're on Patreon, one of the things you get is a discount on uh Nick Holman's Fine Oils. But I, you know, I follow you on the whatever it's called, social social idiocy that we all use.
+
+[26:23] And uh you and I haven't tasted it yet, so I can't speak to it, but the pitch on it, first of all, you had me at Centerfuge, right? And uh I was like, I gotta try this oil. So I have it, I have it coming. So why don't you talk to me about this oil? So this oil is uh so in May and June of 2023.
+
+[26:45] I was down in Chile sourcing fresh olive oil from a couple different producers for a few releases we were gonna do. Uh the one we did before this was a monocultivar nochelara oil, early harvest when the olives are very green and young, where there's less oil in the fruit, but it tends to be more grassy and vibrant. The Nochelara olive hails from Sicily. Yeah. But uh this producer in Chile grows it and they harvest it very early, and that one's more leafy and herbaceous and vibrant.
+
+[27:13] The one we just released, which is the Ojiblanca oil, which is typically that olive comes from Spain, when harvested early has distinct aromas of peach and almond and is on the sweeter, kind of more fruity side. It's not as grassy and bitter and peppery as the Nochelara. So we just released the Oji Blanca last week, and um it's really good. And then I'm gearing up to go get oil uh like end of October, first week in November. So and that'll be Northern here.
+
+[27:43] That'll probably be in Italy or or maybe I'll go down to Sicily, maybe Spain, maybe Greece. Must be nice. Must be nice. Listen, you but you also said that this person in Chile uses a non-standard technique that removes oxygen from the process and keeps it or something like this, keeps it even. Yeah.
+
+[28:01] Yeah. Yeah, it's important. So a lot of people think that you should buy first cold pressed olive oil, and then it must say that on the label. However, this is a myth. Think about it.
+
+[28:12] This traditional cold press method is sort of outdated. Most of the best producers don't use that at all. Instead, they use a modern method where they cold extract the oil. And here's the difference. In the traditional method, the olives are crushed with granite wheels, and the olive paste oxidizes during that time.
+
+[28:31] Then that paste is put onto mats called fiscoli, which are these fiber woven mats and put into what looks like a 100 layer lasagna. And then it is pressed in a hydraulic press. What comes out is about 20% oil, 40% water, and the remaining 40% are the pits, skins, and pulp left over on the mats. However, those mats are really difficult to clean and they can leave unwanted residues, and the olive paste will pick that up during the pressing process. So for a few reasons, this traditional method is really outdated.
+
+[29:00] In the modern method, the vacuums they go through a malexation process where the olive paste is churned, and in that it's a controlled temperature without oxygen. And then it runs through a centrifuge that separates the oil from the water from the solids. And then you get the finished product, and you can get sharper oil from more ripe fruit with this cold extraction modern method. It's more sanitary, and it's much faster, which matters because during the harvest, as you're harvesting the fruit, you want to transform the fruit into oil as quickly as possible. So the speed at which you can mill the olives and turn it into oil is critical as the harvest goes on for many weeks.
+
+[29:41] And some producers will have two or three or even four processing lines so they can crush the olives and transform the fruit into oil, you know, if as efficiently as possible. But you're saying the higher end Italian folks aren't necessarily using this technology. It's more new world folk. No, no, the high-end Italian all over the Mediterranean, they're they're using this technology. In Spain, Italy, Portugal, France, Greece, not everywhere, but most of the world class producers, like 95% of them are cold extracting the oil.
+
+[30:15] In Italian, it'll say on the bottle estrato affreddo. But a lot of producers still sit make it say first cold pressed on the bottle, even when they're cold extracting it, because they know the American people are told to buy first cold pressed olive oil. So I'm just but it's not reflective of the process anymore. So there's kind of an issue with the labeling and having that be accurate because in the olive oil labeling world, we're basically in the wild, wild west. I think that the title, if I ever write a memoir should be called Unwanted Residues.
+
+[30:46] What do you think? Um I think your a memoir you're talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Unwanted residues. I love that.
+
+[30:55] Your memoir titled I'm Me, parentheses as if. Yeah. All right. Uh so talk to me a little more. Uh I was thinking of trolling you for a minute and saying that uh, you know, I remember the time you told me that color indicates flavor, but uh, it just wasn't worth it because I just wasn't worth it wasn't worth trying to troll you.
+
+[31:25] I know, I know because the opposite is true. The opposite is true. Opposite, opposite. But like I can decide I decided not to. Let me tell you right now, the olive oil police is here.
+
+[31:40] Color is of no bearing of the quality of the oil. The proof of the oil is always in the smell and taste. Greener does not mean better. Sometimes a really green looking oil can taste like mud. Other times a golden yellowish oil can taste really grassy and peppery and clean and vibrant.
+
+[31:56] So never judge an oil by the color, always a smell and taste. And professional tasters will taste oils that are dark blue snifters, so the color is obscured. But uh the green stuff's better, right? Dave a thousand times. Oh man.
+
+[32:15] You know what? You're the you're the you're the like this must be what it's like to talk to me. You know what I mean? Because it's easy to push my buttons too. So, you know, anyway.
+
+[32:25] Uh so how does a nochulara taste different when it's grown in first of all, is there more difference, let's say, Chile to, in other words, is it dis is the difference between a no chulara from Chile and Sicily because of Chile Chile and Sicily, or is it just because producer to producer and like two people growing it next to each other in Sicily could have entirely different results? Definitely two people growing it on the same hillside next to each other in Sicily, where one of them is pruning the trees properly and harvesting at the right time and getting the fruit from the tree to the mill in mint condition as quickly as possible, will have a wildly different result than someone who isn't pruning the trees properly, harvesting too late, and um kind of damaging the fruit in the process from tree to milk. So everything matters when out with olive oil because you can't correct anything in the aging process. It's really the moment the oil is extracted, the game is over. So everything building up to that is really, really important.
+
+[33:22] Um the climate's different, obviously, and in Sicily, it varies too. Just so you know, the Nuchelara olive is the same olive as the Castel Vitrano olive, which is cable olive, but when used for oil, it's called the Nocholara. And the Castle Vitrano olive, you know, grazes charcuterie boards all over the world, but most people don't realize it's the same fruit as Nocholara. Now, some olives are used for oil and others are used for the table, and some crossover as both. And the Nochelara or the Casal Vetrano is one that is used both for table and oil.
+
+[33:54] I have to say I did not know that. I did not know that. Yeah. But when you say grace is a shakyri, like all of our pinkies instantly went out. Like all of them.
+
+[34:02] Pinky out. It's amazing. Graces. So uh so yeah, no, no, there's definitely a difference, but it's you know, honestly, the fruit varies from producer to producer, even in Sicily, so it's impossible to define it. However, um, when heart the Nochelara olive really, when harvested early, gives you those leafy, grassy, vibrant notes and cuts through sauces and brightens up grilled seafood, and absolutely one of the great cultivars for oil production.
+
+[34:32] And I love it, but I love it. Yeah, I mean, like uh, I mean, like I only really could name I think three like standard Sicilian cultivars for oil, and no cholera is my favorite. But yeah, are you uh were you gonna say the bianco lila and cherisuola? Yeah. There's also one called the Giarafa, which is this really, really cool uh olive fruit that is used for table.
+
+[34:58] Some producers make it into oil. There's a great producer there called Mandranova that does a monocultivar giraffe olive. It's called the giraffe because it's like the giraffe because the tree can grow to be very tall, and uh that has this almost like chlorophyll, lettuce y cucumber-y note to it. Really nice. Hey, I had a question a couple of weeks ago, but you weren't on, or maybe months ago, and at this point, someone was uh one was trying to process their own olives.
+
+[35:26] I don't know if you like work with the table olive like concept at all. And the other, uh, what about the people who are trying to do their own like mini oil pressing? Like, because I know that there's a big spade of that. Do you have any feelings on that? I know we discussed it a little last time you were here in the studio, but I wonder if you've thought any more about it.
+
+[35:43] I think I mean the idea of quote unquote doing your own oil pressing. Are you talking about just like smashing olives through a cheesecloth or something? No, I mean, people now people now make people now make a little like press that you can use like at home. I mean, in general, I my feeling is you're probably not gonna do as good a job as someone who does this for a living, but I think people want to be able to do it just to you know, kind of see what the procedure is like and kind of like get a feel for what's it. A tabletop mill.
+
+[36:12] Yeah. I think that's more to just like have like some producers have that and they'll do it. It'll be a tabletop mill. I think it's called the MC2. It's just like really cool.
+
+[36:24] There's like a little centrifuge and then a malaxation, and then you can get the oil. But that's just to determine when to start the harvest. And you would never mill serious olives that way. And it's really hard. Like the milling of the transformation from olive to oil is so crucial.
+
+[36:42] And you can lose so many volatile aromas in that process if you don't do it with an experienced miller with good machines. And it's not just the good machines. Because you can have good machines and an inexperienced miller, and they can do a really bad job and give you bad olive oil. So it's a combination of someone who's very familiar with the process of extracting oil on the specific machines that they're using. So I think this tabletop stuff, like, yeah, you can separate the oil, but you know, that's not really where the good juice is at.
+
+[37:14] I don't think it's getting the uh Nick Coleman glasses of approval. Um it doesn't sound like it's getting the Nick Coleman glasses of approval. If someone told me, hey, I'd like to sell you some olive oil, I'm pressing it in my kitchen, I would question a lot. But you'd put it into a you'd put it into a blue glass, drink it all the same, and let them know. Oh, we'd let them know.
+
+[37:36] Uh all right, let's get some, let's get some. Oh, one more question on olive oil. I noticed the other day, uh uh, you know the the Partana Corporation, the you know, relatively large, like uh Oh, yeah? Yeah, yeah. So they did a uh what's it called?
+
+[37:52] A uh a collab, collab. How do the kids pronounce it? Collab or collab? Collab? Collab.
+
+[37:58] Collab. Thank you. Collab. With uh Mission Chinese, they did a uh uh a chili and it like a Calabrian chili oil, right? Now, I'm assuming that they do it unheated, right?
+
+[38:13] And so the standard person when they're making a chili oil is heating it. But what do you what are your thoughts on uh on like cold and cold infused uh olive oils? Obviously, not to your super fancy stuff, but in general, do you have any soft spot for this kind of concept? There's a difference between infused and macerated. And I think the best ones are macerated were the olives and the chili peppers, like the pepperoncino.
+
+[38:40] The olives and pepperoncino are actually crushed together in the mill. And what comes out the spout is the chili oil. And I think that's a much better way to do it than just like infusing olive oil after the fact. So I think if you can get that aggramato method where they're crushed together, you can get good ones. But typically, not always.
+
+[39:03] A lot of these like infusions or macerations are with like second-rate olives. So if there's something they maybe the olives are a little too ripe and they're not going to give you that much aroma or vibrancy in and of themselves, that's what producers will use to make a chili oil or a lemon oil or a basil oil. Because I think the olives are really great. You'd never want to do anything to kind of destroy the extra virginity of that of that oil. Um they don't always do that.
+
+[39:28] Um, but the best way is when the fruit or the herbs or the peppers are macerated with the olives at the moment of extraction to give you um, in a way, like the freshest, most amalgamated lipid with any flavor profile you want to combine with the olives. And is the color come through there too or no? Yeah, and then it'll be like red right out of the spout. So, what's a good producer? Of that, yeah.
+
+[39:58] I bet what they just released together with a collab is really good. All right. Another one is uh another one I love that does it really well is uh Fantoi Coutrera. They're a Sicilian producer in the southeastern part of Sicily in the region of Chiaramonte, where they grow this interesting cultivar called the Tonda Iblea olive. Tonda coming from the word rotunda, meaning round, and Iblea from the Iblaya Mountains where it's grown.
+
+[40:25] Those olives, when harvested early and are primarily green, give you distinct aromas of green tomato leaf. And they have a I love their just extra virgin olive oil, the Monte Ible DOP oil. But um it's called Primo. But uh but they they also have a whole like infused and macerated line that uh is is really nice. There you go.
+
+[40:46] Straight from uh straight from the grease man's mouth. Not grease, oil. Pardon me, pardon me. How's the soap business going? It's about to be uh about to hit the streets.
+
+[41:02] Yeah, Nick Coleman, craziest, craziest person in the world, doesn't use his old oil, doesn't take the oil that's about to go bad and make some no, he's like, I only want to use oil for soap that I would drink. Is that still your position? Yes, because skin is the largest organ in the body and deserves the nutrient-rich properties of extra virgin olive oil. Nutbasket. Love you, man.
+
+[41:24] It's crazy. All right. Uh all right, let's uh let's get some questions. Xander says, uh Dave mentioned he might come to Berlin. In fact, I am.
+
+[41:33] I won't be on the show next week because I'll be in Berlin. Uh would that be a public event? I don't know. Uh Xander uh anyone that knows me personally knows that I have no idea what I'm doing there. I have no earthly idea.
+
+[41:48] I'm assuming I'm gonna put a spinzall in there in my backpack and go to Germany, and then I'm gonna go where people tell me to go. Really, honestly. I have no idea. John, this bet this checks out. Yeah, no, that's 100% true.
+
+[42:00] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, speaking of the engineering build just came through. We got the engineering build, and it looks really good. Couple of mistakes, the wrench needs to be changed, the lid cap they got wrong, but overall, good.
+
+[42:11] Yeah, the front face is not what it used to be. We we're gonna run a Nastasia. You want to should we talk about this or not? Yeah, do it now. Do it, rip the band-aid off.
+
+[42:21] So here's what happened. Uh we did not tell the people who had ordered a spinzall that we were having this quote unquote contest about if you ordered more than one, we were gonna set like put you in to get an engineering bill just as a as a bonus because we assumed that you were a bar and you needed multiples anyway. So we never notified the people. So now we so A, it wasn't useful for what we thought it was for, which is to let people know that like if you have multiples in for a bar, we're gonna put you into this contest. B, uh listener, you know, Sargon pointed out that it's illegal to have a contest without.
+
+[42:56] So what we're gonna have to do is say, you know, we'll start like a one-week thing where you can either mail an Applehead doll to Quinn's PO box in Portland, Oregon, right? To enter, or you're automatically entered. We're gonna send an email. You're automatically entered if you bought more than one uh spinzall, and then we give you like a week cutoff date, and then after that week we tally all the crap, and I'm gonna use a quantum. There is a there is a a random number.
+
+[43:26] There's several now, but there's one out of Australia that's the original quantum vacuum random number generator, and it's actual because I don't want any of you fools out there to say that I used a pseudo-random number generator. I am using random numbers based on the fluctuations of the quantum vacuum direct from Australia. So all you do is you put in the number of units from one to whatever, however many units, and it spits out a random number. So we'll do that live on um, I don't know, Instagram or some crap. And then, you know, we will.
+
+[43:56] So anyway, so it's gonna take us a little bit, but that's what we're gonna have to do, which is stu- ooh a ped, but it is what we're gonna do. Uh and remember, I have to say, no purchase is gonna be necessary. Applehead may be necessary, no purge is gonna be necessary, and uh the object has no commercial value because it's an engineering build. Does it is that all I need to say, Stas, or no? Yeah.
+
+[44:19] Yeah. That's it. All right. Anything you want to do? We're also sending an email out with Quinn's address to mail things.
+
+[44:31] His post office box. It's his post office box. But please don't send him random stuff because then he has to forward it from his post office box in the United States to Canada. It's a huge hassle. So don't just start like sending random things to Quinn in Portland, Oregon.
+
+[44:46] All right. No offense to Portland. Right. Uh all right. And also, can you talk about how he does his pressure cooked uh carnitas that he mentioned a few weeks ago?
+
+[44:55] Thanks. Yeah, sure. So uh um whenever I cook pork shoulder, I don't have time, so I always pressure cook the pork shoulder and I think it's good. Right? The trick when you're pressure cooking anything uh is that you get no reduction, well, you're not supposed to get reduction inside of the pressure cooker.
+
+[45:10] So what you have to do is you have to get some form of liquid in the bottom of the pressure cooker so that you can build up pressure uh before it it it uh scorches, right? So typically anytime I'm cooking something in a pressure cooker, I make sure there's like liquid at the bottom and anything that's gonna thicken it up, I put on top so that it doesn't meld together until the thing's already at pressure, right? So when I do, for instance, my carbonade, which is not pork, but I, you know, the bread and all of that crap sits on top, and the beer is at the bottom so that it comes up to temperature and it will amalgamate during the cooking, but you get it, it's not thick at the beginning. Anyway, so yeah, I just uh, you know, get a pork shoulder, cut off the meat, uh, cut out the meat, cut out, you know, cut off the skin, the bone, cut the meat into slabs, salt it, uh, and then I add uh cumin, orange zest, uh, oregano, smash garlic, black pepper, and orange juice. Uh, you mix it up, let it sit for, you know, an hour or so, salt on the skin, and then you put everything in the pressure cooker with a skin on top, uh, along with some liquid so that it comes up, uh, cook it for like depends on how thick this meat slabs are, but 25 to 30 minutes at 15 psi, take out the skin and the bone, uh, and then take the skin and I crisp it up separately.
+
+[46:26] When I'm doing chili where I'm serving the sauce, I um I blend the skin into the sauce. But this isn't a chili, this is like it, there's no chili base here, right? So then with this one, then you let it cool in the liquid, it absorbs all the liquid, then you pull it up and you that make sense. Yeah. Uh yeah, that's it.
+
+[46:49] Yeah. Pour off the liquid, shred the meat, put it in a pot. They can't save the, they get the oil off the top, add the liquid back to the meat, and then at service time, crisp it up. That's it. Simple.
+
+[47:00] Bill of Thunder wants to know are there any plans to release a bookslash ebook that has the drink specs from beat uh BDX or existing conditions, even if it is something bare bone, like bare bones like Chad Austin's, everyone has an effing cocktail book. No. Nope. Uh I mean, no, nope, no. Uh I mean, maybe someday, but I've got so much on my plate now that the thought of it even makes me ill.
+
+[47:23] But if you have a specific spec you want, just ask us. You know what I mean? Uh, we have a caller, caller, you're on the air. Hey, what's up, Dave? It's Josh from Norfolk here.
+
+[47:33] Hey, what's up? How's Norfolk? How's Virginia treating you? Oh, it's great. Wait, you say Josh?
+
+[47:39] Yep. The Josh. Uh if you're talking about spinzall tattoo, Josh, that's me. D Oh my God. Oh my god.
+
+[47:54] Uh it's amazing what a text message to your tattoo artist after a bottle of wine will do for you, you know? Oh wow, man. Oh man. So for those that don't know, if you uh uh so Josh has a tattoo that says, all I do is spin. Like, you know, DJ Collin.
+
+[48:12] You know what I mean? It's so like every time I think about it, I have, you know, I hear in my in the back of my head, DJ Collin. You know what I mean? Then they like you have all I do is spin with the thing around it and the spins all. It's amazing, man.
+
+[48:24] So like Nastasia, like, I don't know, we're gonna Nastasia loves it, right, Stas? Yeah, we're sending him a hat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You are definitely like, you know, you're you know, you're on the Christmas list, man. That's like serious, you know?
+
+[48:39] Appreciate, yeah. Awesome. So what's up? I appreciate it. Yeah.
+
+[48:42] Uh calling in calling in with a sandwich question for you. All right, oh I know. We're gonna have this argument. So his social account is a hot dog is a sandwich. All right, but we we know we disagree about this.
+
+[48:55] All right, okay. So my uh my bar and my friend group have been racked by this. Um, on a hot sandwich, so let's say like a burger or a chicken sandwich, does the lettuce and tomato go on top of or underneath the protein? I got something to say. All right, Nick, what do you got, man?
+
+[49:15] I'm out in LA. I have the famous, you know, double double animal style, in and out. They're putting the cute, they're putting the pickles and lettuce and tomato under the patty. You're displeased, I can tell. Talk to me about why you're displeased.
+
+[49:32] No, it's delicious, but but it's it's counterintuitive to the traditional method, which I think is on top, which may be a bit messy, but the trick is first of all, I don't know if a hamburger is a sandwich. You call it a ham, who calls it a hamburger sandwich, A. B. I think it's fundamental to wrap the these burgers or sandwiches. Like even at home, I'll take parchment paper and wrap my sandwiches, which allows the dressed vegetable product to like sort of it doesn't fall out, it doesn't drip out.
+
+[50:06] You collect it and you end up eating it. So I think like above or below the protein, not as important as the product having a wrap to it. All right. Well, I mean, like I I'm not gonna cosign wrapping whatever. Here's my feeling.
+
+[50:21] My feeling. Professional sandwiches are wrapped. It's because you have to get them home. No, it's it's more. It keeps them together while you're eating it too.
+
+[50:32] And it collects here's what I do not like getting paper in my mouth. Well, you have to be an adult and decide where the food is and where the receptacle is. No, no, no, no, no, no. Wrapping it, then now now anyway. But here's the more to Josh's question, right?
+
+[50:50] It completely depends on the sandwich. First of all, what kind of substrate is it on? Is there anything protect? How juicy is the is the the a fried, look, a fried chicken sandwich isn't gonna sog out your bottom. So you can put your lettuce on top because it's gonna taste better, it's got better texture, right?
+
+[51:10] If you're talking about something and it's a uh if it's a smash patty, it's not gonna sog out your your bottom. If it's one of those thick, juicy suckers, then I like a little bit underneath, or if you're doing like anything like a like a BLT where it's gonna be very wet, I need an under layer of of lettuce to protect the bread from sogging out. Like, which is also why you no matter what you're gonna do to the outside of the bread, toast the inside because it protects it against sogging, right? I actually most of the time don't like the outside toasted unless it's a grilled cheese because I value the roof of my mouth. Uh but so it totally depends there.
+
+[51:49] I'm gonna say the power move is a slice of lettuce underneath for uh prevention of sog if it's a soggy thing, and actually finely shredded cabbage on top is the is the money lettuce. The best lettuce on a sandwich is finely shredded cabbage, in my opinion, for fried chicken, especially. You have fried chicken in in my head, but like fried chicken sandwich, finely shredded cabbage on top, as the lettuce to me with the mayonnaise is like blah la la la la la la la. You know what I mean? And then if you're Nick, you can wrap it in something so that you're chewing on paper the whole time.
+
+[52:22] I think the pickle is required with the fried chicken sandwich as well. I prefer I always prefer some form of um some form of lactic, some form of lactic uh fermentation in my sandwiches, whether it be like uh so like for instance, I I like sauerkraut on things, even burgers, right? Uh, but then what I'll do is I'll put a little sauerkraut on the patty itself because it's gonna leak like a bastard unless you've pressed it, and then put some form of uncured leafy product on top of it to try to shield everything from the from the mess. You know what I'm saying? I like I do appreciate some form of lactic.
+
+[53:00] What are your thoughts on dressing the vegetables before they are placed onto the sandwich so they get their appropriate treatment and aren't just kind of like raw plain on a sandwich. Yeah, well, it totally depends. Like so, in the aforementioned shredded cabbage, you better salt the whole pile, right? Before it goes on. Uh, but like whether it's got because I mean, God, look, anyone who thinks they can fix a cooking problem by seasoning a like a large composite after it's done is mistaken about how cooking works.
+
+[53:31] You know what I'm saying? It's like just make each individual part delicious and then make the composite also delicious, right? Like that's I mean, I think that's the only way to to work. So on things that want to be on things that aren't good without said dressing, then I would pre-dress, yeah, for sure. Yeah, like I hate when I get a sandwich with like a BLT and they haven't salted the tomatoes.
+
+[53:57] No, they're the they're not they're not real people. They're they're they're they're some sort of simulation or cyborg. They've never eaten anything. It's an AI making you a sandwich. The tomato must be salted, right?
+
+[54:10] The tomato must be salted, and I say peppered because I if I don't have pepper on my BLT, black pepper, I'm upset. You know what I'm saying? But yeah, 100%. Uh then uh you must also salt the bread where the mayonnaise is, in my opinion, lightly, right? So then that gets the lettuce, which you put on both sides, and you shouldn't use an overly salty bacon.
+
+[54:36] Right. So the bacon should be edible on its own. If the bacon is is so salty that you're using it as the salt, you've already started from a bad position, right? So the tomato should be properly salted for its own existence and peppered. The only thing that I don't salt is the lettuce because I put lettuce on top and bottom for sog and taste reasons.
+
+[54:59] And uh I salt the bread and mayonnaise instead of the lettuce. That's the only thing that I I will I will brook having not be seasoned in a BLT. Is this health at all just? Oh, this is great. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[55:16] Yeah, I don't know if you wrap it. So, what I do is I like I like with so a BLT, my BLT to me, the ultimate BLT, you have to eat it hunched over because so much juice is flying out of the tomato as you're eating that you're creating a lake underneath on the plate, and yet you're you've made such a good sandwich that the bread itself is not getting soggy because you have the two layers of lettuce, the protection of mayonnaise and toasting, right? And so as you're eating it, like this like atrocity of tomato filth is on your plate and you can't put the sandwich down. Uh a pro to me, a proper BLT cannot be put down after it's been picked up. You have to wrap the sandwich and solve all these problems.
+
+[55:58] I don't know, man. I don't know. But I don't want I don't want that. I want, you know, it's like when you eat a lobster, right? A lobster, if you if you're if you can wear a dress shirt while eating a lobster, you aren't eating it right.
+
+[56:11] Unless somebody else is cutting the meat out for you. You like anyone next to you should hate your guts while you're eating lobster because they should be coated in goop. Like in other words, like there's certain things that this aren't supposed to be meat. Many professional sandwich shops, even if you eat the sandwich in the facility in which it's made, the sandwich will be delivered to you in a receptacle of wrapping. And then I instantly take the wrapping off.
+
+[56:37] Okay, Nick, what's your favorite? What's your favorite burger like product? Burglar. What's your favorite burgoloid? There's only one.
+
+[56:46] To make at home. Like can I tell you? No, no, no, no, no. I'm gonna no, right now I'm gonna I'm gonna make you something that's not a hamburger, but it's got a hamburger patty in it. What is it?
+
+[56:55] I don't understand what you're asking. A patty melt. Patty melt's the answer always. Patty melt. Patty melt.
+
+[57:03] It's God, it's it's God's burgaloid. Thing is delicious. That is was handed down on the tablets. They chiseled in patty melt, because it is so good. I love patty melts.
+
+[57:16] Patty melt. You never had a patty melt? I don't eat no. What is the difference between a and a patty? Yeah, a patty melt is rye bread and then, in my opinion, caramelized onions crossed with a hamburger and a grilled cheese sandwich, but with, you know.
+
+[57:38] Well, the rye bread's griddled. Well, it's grilled cheese sandwich. Yeah. So you you make the patty, right? Then you put it with the onions and the and you know, cheese.
+
+[57:47] Some people disagree about the cheese. I I swiss it, but and then rye, and then you make that like it's a grilled cheese sandwich so it all melts together. You put the patty in and it melts together. And that is a sandwich that should be trying, like it should be cross-cut, like not in half. It should be caught, cut on a 45 bias.
+
+[58:08] Got it. Yeah. I'll tell you right now. Go to Grovenbar.com and type in cooking issues at checkout and get 10% off anything we sell. Uh well, you're supposed to pay for the Patreon for that, but thanks.
+
+[58:21] Uh whatever. Uh Matt Matt from Mystic. Matt from Mystic says, uh, curious on Dave's thoughts how to execute uh this type of lunch while also keeping rice bacteriologically safe. And what it was was a kimp kind of uh New York City. This person was making like a rice roll with seaweed, like you know, or if you know, Japanese style onigiri, but not filled.
+
+[58:39] And the answer is uh you need to get that pH down. You need to acidify the rice. Uh so commercial people tend to take their pH down to about 4.1, but the actual magic number for room temperature rice is pH of 4.6. I was not able to find on the internet anyone who said add this amount of vinegar to this much cooked rice, and you will achieve this pH. So the people in New Zealand, what they do is you test three or four batches, and if your numbers are consistent, then you only have to test one batch every uh two weeks.
+
+[59:07] This is if you have a hasset plan. Uh the standard way to measure it is to take your acidified rice and mix it uh three to three to one by weight with water and then take a pH of the slurry, right? Uh pure water. Uh so if you're if you get a pH of 4-1, you're probably safe. Uh pH of 4-1 is safe even if it's kept at like 37 Cel S C, so like body temperature and above.
+
+[59:30] And pH 4-6 is uh totally safe on a study I read called the efficacy of sushi rice acidification, quantification of bacillus serious and clusteridium perfingens during stimulation of retail practices. Uh, if you keep it at room temperature, 4.6 is fine. Uh someday someone's got to get sodium bisulf 888, not it, which is the preservative 8, which is the acidifier that is not uh doesn't taste sour, and then we can sprinkle it in and make everything uh acid as hell without it tasting sour, but anyway, or you could just do like Jiro and over freaking you know acidify everything. Uh how many seconds I got left? Oh right, Paul Gersman.
+
+[1:00:05] I answered your question on the actual social media about where to get House Alpen's products like brrrr! House Alpen's is so house alpens has some delicious products. Burr, so delicious. Uh hopefully Quinn has emailed you your stuff. Um, Simon, I'm gonna have to get to your flour questions later.
+
+[1:00:20] It's quite complicated. And Minois, I'm gonna get to you uh next time on uh nitrous oxide versus nitrogen. And I promise not to talk too much about uh American gladiators when I do it. And oh my god, can I say one more thing quick? Uh Science wants to know if you can use a milk separator to uh as a centrifuge and lose something like a spinzall.
+
+[1:00:40] I've tried it with home uh milk separators like the plastic ones that people buy when they have like uh like two or three goats, and uh didn't work. Sucked. And I'm gonna get your stuff, Sev on your peaches later, apricots, cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking YouTube's coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New Stance Studios, New York City. Join as usual with uh John behind me. How you doing? Doing great things.
+
+[0:22] Yeah? Yeah, people? Yeah. Not lying to me? No, not lying.
+
+[0:24] Yeah. Actually good day. Sweet. All right. Got Joe Rock in the panels.
+
+[0:28] How are you doing, Joe? I'm doing well. Great to see everyone. Everyone's in a great mood today. Yeah?
+
+[0:32] Yeah. Nice. All right. In Vancouver Island, in the way upper, upper, upper left-hand corner, we have Quinn. How you doing, Quinn?
+
+[0:42] My mood is just okay. Why is your mood just okay? Aren't you feeling better? Aren't you aren't you? Are you just trying to be on this on?
+
+[0:50] Appointment day. Yeah. Everyone loves an appointment day. And then in Los Angeles, we have uh is Nastasia with you today, Jack. Yeah.
+
+[1:02] Yeah, we got Nastasia the Hammer Lopez and Jack Jack Molecules. How you doing? I'm good. Freshly back from Japan, finally. Oh yeah.
+
+[1:12] I mean, he's literally freshly back from Japan. Oh, yeah. Anyway. Uh, and I'm super delighted to have. So uh again, we're we're going to the new style where we all shoot the breeze together as a group.
+
+[1:23] Uh uh glad to have JJ Johnson, who's here to talk about his brand new book, The Simple Art of Rice. How are you doing? I'm doing great. Thanks for having me, everybody. Yeah, well, it's a super pleasure to have you.
+
+[1:34] Uh you haven't been on the show before, right? Now it's my first time. It's a shame. I have a restaurant here in Rockefeller Center. In Rock Center?
+
+[1:40] Yeah, right downstairs. Field trips there. I didn't know you had a branch here. Yes, I do. So your restaurant field trip uh up in Harlem.
+
+[1:46] I didn't know you had a branch here. What's it like have you had the same was that where you were having the problem with the rationale? Uh no, that was at a different location. Uh yeah. Yeah.
+
+[1:53] You know, I I I have never And it wasn't rationale, let's not give them to give them heat in the streets. Uh yeah, or not heat as the case may be. So before we get on, we uh we came on, you know, it was the standard, like uh, you know, people who cook uh commiserating over crappy equipment, not crappy equipment, but crappy service to equipment. So it wasn't rationale is a different combi oven. You want to tell them what happened?
+
+[2:15] Yeah, we opened our location right in front of uh Columbia University, 114th in Broway, was running for two weeks, and all of a sudden the combi oven started saying gas pressure issues. Going back to the company, had them come, they blame the plumber. The plumber then blamed them. Then they said call Con Ed, tell them to turn the gas pressure up. You can't just call Con Ed and tell him it's not.
+
+[2:36] Con Ed to shut the gas down. And then they come to find out the machine had its own regulator that's supposed to regulate the gas pressure, but they told us to put a right told the plumber to put a regulator on the other side of the combi. Right. And that regulator blew out the other regulator. Yeah, because it was choking it.
+
+[2:53] Correct. So they had to replace the to they had to replace their own $25,000 combi oven, which they didn't want to do. Yeah, so so for those of you that like don't use professional equipment, the way so like a home oven, you just attach that to gas and you're good to go. But like 99% of all commercial stoves, right? Ovens and stoves, you put a separate like regulator.
+
+[3:20] It looks kind of like a flying saucer. Yep. And you can see it. You know what I mean? Because it's like the the bit, and we use big old pipes.
+
+[3:26] We're not using that little pipe that you guys have at home. We get a big old pipe of gas coming out because they want to maintain a very even accurate pressure up to the oven. So it's a big pipe coming in, and then they regulate it right before it goes into your equipment. And you actually have a separate regulator for each piece of equipment, and each piece of equipment sometimes has a slightly different regulation, but apparently, the person who sold you their own piece of equipment didn't know. Didn't know that whoever made your not rationale, but whoever made your combi oven already put a regulator in it.
+
+[3:53] And you can't double regulate because you drop a certain PSI each time you go. But this is the crazy part. So they come to take out the combi, put a new one in, and they go, hey guys, what do you want us to do with this combi we're taking out? We're like, I don't know. He's like, What is yours?
+
+[4:05] Oh, I'm like, I can fix it for you. Should we keep this big old piece of combi oven? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They have the combi oven for us. I gotta figure out what to do with it.
+
+[4:13] Yeah. You gonna fix it? Oh, hell yeah. Oh, great, I'm gonna call you after this. Yeah.
+
+[4:16] Well, if the electronics aren't toast, right? So if it's just a regulator, you could replace that. The problem with a lot of let's just assume it's European. I don't know. Let's just assume it's European.
+
+[4:25] So German. German. Okay. It's German, but it's not rational. So we're we're we're we're we're digging down into where so um some of the problem, like for instance, uh, with uh Paco jets, right?
+
+[4:36] So we'll just pick on the Swiss for a minute. When you open up uh one of those uh Paco jets, none of the parts inside are standard. Like, yeah. So then you have to like do a little bit of hunting. Like I have a German fridge and it's a pain.
+
+[4:49] But once you find the actual part numbers and you can get them, then you can just swap that thing out. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean I don't want to build I want to build more restaurants, but I don't want to be in control of construction anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been beat up way too much.
+
+[5:03] But that's a big piece of uh equipment, yeah. Yeah. I gotta, yeah, maybe I'll tell we'll talk. Or yeah, or if you don't want to make it, I'm sure there's someone listening here who'll be like, you know what? I'm I'm that knucklehead who has more time than good sense, and I'm gonna fix that and like, you know, right, you know, make some sort of deal with you or something.
+
+[5:18] You know what I mean? Uh all right. So uh we started right into that when we didn't get a chance to shoot the breeze. I'm like, has it have any of you had anything over the past week in food and or beverage that was uh interesting or uh you know you want to talk about? So, Dave, in Japan, I ended up having um whale sashimi whale bacon is what they called it, and then horse sashimi.
+
+[5:43] Okay, was it smoked? The bacon? The well, the whale meat. Was it smoked or no? Yeah.
+
+[5:51] No, no, it wasn't. Then it's not bacon. Right? I mean, like, like that's that's all there is. I mean, this is this I'm going off of like a really loose Google translation.
+
+[6:01] All right. I don't know if they're actually calling it bacon. That might have been the closest English word to what they were trying to say. All right, so so that part of the weirdness, I'm dialing back down. Now let's talk about the fact that it was like whale meat.
+
+[6:15] Uh yeah. So uh how was that? How was your uh how was your whale? Was it as uh unpleasant as I'm led to believe, or what? No, I thought it was pretty good actually.
+
+[6:26] How thin was it? It wasn't thin at all. The it was just kind of like chunks. Sounds like a bad price. Yeah.
+
+[6:35] You ever had any anyone else? Anyone else here ever had the whale? I never had no right. All right. What about a horse?
+
+[6:43] I hear horse is delicious. Horse is good. The the well, I actually had it two ways. There was a smoked horse that was actually really good. Um, and the horse, the horse sashimi was like a little too much.
+
+[6:54] Too much kind of in which way, like too like fatty, like muh. Are you a huge tartar guy? Are you a tartar guy in general or no? Like when's all right. So it's I am.
+
+[7:04] I like raw things. It was just too fatty. Yeah. How thin was the was the horse? Not thin enough.
+
+[7:11] That's the thing. When I have a raw piece of meat like that, I don't want to like, I'm not like a cave person. I don't want like stringy stuff coming out of my teeth, you know. I want it to be thin. Yeah, that was the issue.
+
+[7:20] Exactly. Exactly. How about you, JJ? Are you a tartar style of person or no? I love tartar.
+
+[7:25] Yeah. I love crude, shoshimi. Yeah. But I don't know if I'm eating a horse. I would definitely eat horse.
+
+[7:32] I hear in Beijing, donkey is like big. I I can see that. You know, I like donkey that live animal, but I also kind of want to eat donkey. It's gotta be tough. I don't know.
+
+[7:43] Here's delicious. I heard it's delicious. You know? Best meat I ever had that I've only had once or twice was yak. I said that on the air.
+
+[7:52] It's like yak delicious. Uh so yeah, so whale, don't do it again, I'm assuming you're saying, or you would have the whale again, but you wouldn't have the one kind of horse. It's weird to do generally, right? But like in Japan it is accepted in the world. Was it quite you know, one restaurant that did both?
+
+[8:11] Yeah, it was one restaurant. No, I wasn't going on a whale flight around. Yeah, yeah. Did they did they wear did they wear a hat that said crap on the world? When you Google translated.
+
+[8:21] It was like the kind of pla it was like the kind of place that like old men were smoking cigarettes at and they were like watching Japanese sports and shit. But it was like a win and roam kind of thing. I am kind of curious how over a hundred years after the horse has been economically as important as it once was, right? And for you know, obviously, you know, generations and generations and generations, the horse was an important animal for us, not just culturally, but like literally. You know what I mean?
+
+[8:55] Uh so like I want I don't I wouldn't, I don't I would never order dog because like I wouldn't. I just I just I know it's illogical considering that I eat other animals that are as smart as dog and as and are friendly as dogs, but I just would I just wouldn't enjoy eating a dog, put it that way. But horse, I just don't have that many feelings about I don't know. You wouldn't eat horse shaving? I don't know.
+
+[9:20] There's just some things out there, like would I before I eat like what I would I eat or would I cook it? Those are two different questions, right? You know, would you eat it, would you cook it? Would you order it? Those are the three qu those are the three questions.
+
+[9:31] Would I cook it? Would I order it? And if someone handed it to me, would I eat it? Yeah. I mean, like, I'm in Japan, like I don't know if I'm eating horse and whale in Japan.
+
+[9:42] But what if so, this is the predicament I found myself in when I was traveling in Vietnam. What if you get invited into someone's home and they serve you that kind of ball of wax and we're like that's how I ate dog. Unknowingly, you know, so different ways. Yeah, they didn't tell me. Like, what's the line though?
+
+[9:59] Like, I don't think like if someone, if someone was like, This is a monkey, I'd be like, Oh no, no, you know what I mean? Like that's sort of what this was because like I said, it was like it's like old place where old men were, and there was no English, no English menus, and they're just kind of randomly pointing at things, and I'm like, oh susume, which is basically I'll have what you would, and then that's just a smart array that comes out. It's a good order, by the way. In general, that's the order. Yeah, I mean, I think we can all agree that that's what you want.
+
+[10:24] Like, you know, I want whatever one, whatever you're having, that's what I want. You know what I mean? But yeah, right. I hear that uh the most interesting thing that happened to Nastasia Lopez is she's basically shadow dating Pauly Shore right now. She keeps running into him at the coffee shop and whatever.
+
+[10:41] It's like it's open. It's like it's like Nastasia Lopez takes us to the saddest show, the saddest quote unquote comedy show that's ever been done. And then, like, you know, every time, it's like, oh, you know, the coffee shop happens to be like an hour and a half away from where she lives, I'm sure, right? Just happens to run a Pauly Shore there all the time. You know what I mean?
+
+[11:05] No, it was two, it was two different coffee shops. So it was weird. Okay. Same town, same, same, same town. Same Los Angeles.
+
+[11:14] Yeah, but like it's a big place. I think the same neighborhood or what? Uh like West Hollywood, yeah. All right. All right.
+
+[11:22] Where I live, where I live. You know how many times I've run into Pauly Shore? Zero. Zero. I mean, I almost ran into him when we saw him when we were the three people at that show, that super depressing show that you took us to.
+
+[11:36] Oh my god. When your crew doubles the audience, it's an issue. You know what I mean? Not of the cooking variety. Yeah.
+
+[11:46] Uh I mean, look, I'm not anti-Pauli Shore. I'm not, I'm not anti-Polly. I'm not anti-Pauli Shore. He actually just misses, like he just misses, like when he was most popular was when I wasn't really consuming that kind of culture. Does that make sense?
+
+[12:07] Yeah. Uh yeah. Uh what about any any food? What were you ordering? What okay?
+
+[12:12] Do you go to a coffee shop because it's got the worst coffee available in the neighborhood? Because I know you. Yes. Yes. Okay, so this is something you must share with Pauly Shore.
+
+[12:20] You're like, who has who cares the least about the quality of this coffee? I'm gonna go there and get a stale Danish. Mike Close. No, I just got a coffee. Like I just got a coffee and then I sit in work.
+
+[12:35] Oh, wait, whoa. So you do like you do your coffee and your breakfast pastry in different places. You don't like to, you don't like to double that up? No, I do oatmeal at home. Oatmeal.
+
+[12:47] I do I do coffee out so that I can sit and work for like a couple hours. You ever uh you ever instead of oatmeal tried like maybe like uh overnight like uh like a rice, like a more of a rice based instead of oatmeal? No, no. Maybe JJ can change your mind on this. Wait, wait.
+
+[13:02] Did I tell you what I said to him though? No. Oh. I'm curious. I said, hey.
+
+[13:09] I said, hey, you used to have a nice smile. Oh damn. Wow. Wow. And everyone thinks that that's mean, and it wasn't meant in the nicest way.
+
+[13:22] What's the what is the nice way? What's the nice way? You used to have a nice smile. Yeah, but okay, what's the nice smile? But someone help me out here.
+
+[13:33] Did you how did he respond back though? Don't ask me. How did he respond back? Did you smile? He said, Oh, thank you, thank you.
+
+[13:42] And then, like, yeah. Because he was dissociating. Somehow, somehow I'm depressed even more about it. I don't know. Like, you know what I mean?
+
+[13:50] It's like, somehow I feel even worse. I don't know if I didn't know that was possible, but thanks. Uh speaking of uh uh next week, uh speaking of next week, we have Han from Cato, uh, where she's doing uh some fabulous non-alk work there. She won uh bartender, what, like best bartender in the universe, 2023 or something like this? How does it work?
+
+[14:12] Uh, one of the best new bartenders for Punch Mag. All right, right. Punch, uh oh my, I heard a funny story. So yesterday I was doing um I had to do Robert Simonson came out with his like, what is it, like 33rd book this year? Something like that.
+
+[14:25] He comes out with like literally like the way that like, you know, some people cook dinner, man writes books. Anyway, so like I was in this book and uh on like encyclopedia cocktails. And so, like, because I was in the book, he wrangled me to do cocktails at Porchlight yesterday. I did, for any of you that went to my old bar, Booker in Dax, uh, I did a drink that was on the opening menu uh called First Date, which was with uh Elijah Craig, which I think is still a good, I think it's a good value in in uh bourbon. And uh yeah, yeah.
+
+[14:52] Your bar was solid. Oh, thanks. Thanks. Um, so anyways, so I did uh that and oh, and we were and then I also did an event for Kampari same day. So I can't really tell, you know, Heaven Hill and Kampari don't really mention them in the same, you know what I'm saying?
+
+[15:06] You know, you just did though. I did though, yeah. Uh it's the end of old fashioned week, so that's why like uh you know anyway, whatever. So like I was talking about it, and they were saying this is going back to Punch that this guy used to try to break into um so when you sign up for an event, let's say you let's say you're gonna pretend to be a bartender and you're gonna sign up for a bartender outreach program. They're usually limited, right?
+
+[15:28] Because that's how they work. So it's like and same with chefs when they have chef things, right? Like, you know, these sign up, like I used to do Gohan. Did you ever do any of those old Gohan society things back in the day? I know you're talking about no, but I never did that.
+
+[15:38] Oh, they were sick. If you could get into that, I got into it because I was working at the French culinary, so like they would like invite me, but then they get like these awesome Japanese chefs to amazing demos with with everything, with fish, and so I used to go. But people would try to weasel their way into it. So this one guy who was trying to weasel his way into one of these events. Like, I don't know if I didn't know this was a thing, but the person who was vetting was looking up like their social accounts to see whether or not they were legit or not.
+
+[16:03] And this guy was only posting rando stuff and then racist stuff, right? So they were like, the guy was like, where do you work? He's like, I write for punch. He's like, What have you written? He's like, Well, I submit articles to punch.
+
+[16:16] So, not yeah, so punch, like, I because I was like, he's no way he writes for punch because punch is a legitimate thing. I like punch. Yeah. Legitimate folk. Yeah.
+
+[16:24] I don't always agree with them, but legitimate folk. Uh, what about you, John? Anything in the world of food? Um, I think I'm gonna be switching up the food menu at Temperance to have it be more Belgian, which I'm kind of excited about. Oh.
+
+[16:38] So, yeah, thank you. It's gonna be exciting. Going back to your roots. Exactly. Okay, you know what?
+
+[16:43] You spend all this time being freaking like, you know, like love the Belgian. You you'd love Belgian stuff. Why not be more Belgian? Exactly. So are you gonna you want to buy my waffle iron?
+
+[16:53] It can be upgraded to 220. I uh it could be upgraded to 220. So if Ray Waffles, Ray Waffles, I told you this, Ray Waffles was extremely sick with the COVID. I have not reached out to him since the pandemic. But if Ray Waffles is still alive, you can convert my waffle iron to 220.
+
+[17:10] He said he could do it for like 300 bucks. Oh. Ray Waffles. We're trying to get rid of your waffle iron. I have a 90, okay.
+
+[17:17] So my the my kid, Booker, who still lives with me, doesn't eat waffles. My other son, who's like waffles, is like he's already in college. I have a 90-pound, like, I have God's waffle iron, 90 pounds of it sitting on my counter, eating up space. I don't have a lot of room and I don't make enough waffles to justify owning that waffle iron. Well, would you replace it with a beautiful rice cooker?
+
+[17:42] I already have a beautiful rice cooker. My rice cooker, though, is 20-something years old. Every once in a while it dies. And so like I unplug it and I put it in like a place of honor and I wait for like a week to see whether or not it'll come back to life. And the two times that I have done it, it has come back to life.
+
+[17:57] I have like a I have a 20-something-year-old Zoji Rushi, like one of the first like neurofuzzy induction ones. And um the the pot is like the the fake Teflon coating is all coming off. And so it's like, you need to replace that pot. I'm like, nope. It's like a hundred and fifty dollars just replaced a pot, and they haven't made my model in like a million years.
+
+[18:20] And so like I'm like, you know what? I'm not worried about it. I'm not worried about it. You know what I'm saying? I love that thing.
+
+[18:27] And I like that you like rice cookers too. Yeah, now I got 10 times. You're cooking rice 10 times. How many of those times is a rice cooker in your real life at home? I'm cooking rice ten times.
+
+[18:40] You're 10 times. How many of those 10 times are you in a pot on the stove? And how many of those times are you in a rice cooker? Me? Yeah.
+
+[18:47] I'm probably eight times on the stove, two times in a rice cooker. Really? Yeah. Do you ever cook it in the stove and then use the keep warm in the rice cooker just so that it stays? Yes.
+
+[18:57] Keep warm on the rice cooker is a genius thing. I I use a lot of things in the keep warm in the rice cooker. Because I have young kids, so it's like pop it there. It's like my holding area. Rice cookers, I love it because it's super versatile.
+
+[19:09] You can do a lot in there. Are you all what what brand are you? You also Zojirushi or no? I do have a jojirushi. Yeah.
+
+[19:14] They're good. They're great. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, I played around with a lot of rice cookers lately. Like I played around with very cheap $34 rice cookers.
+
+[19:22] I played around with uh the Korean brand, I can't think of the name right now. Play around with them, great rice cooker. Um but yeah, I've had this one for four years. It's been great. Yeah.
+
+[19:33] I uh if I was gonna get another one, I don't even know whether it's worthwhile, but I kind of want the one that has like the light pressure setting. I don't even know what I want it for. I don't even know what I want it for. I have no idea, JJ. I just kind of like it's like, oh, you can do that?
+
+[19:46] And I was like, I want it. You know what I mean? I don't figure out something I can use it for. I don't know. So when I first started um with the the company who makes the I make centrifuges, so the company that makes these centrifuges, the the factory that makes it, they also make some extremely high-end rice cookers.
+
+[20:03] Like these rice cookers are like, they're not like a couple hundred dollars, like they're like seven, eight hundred dollar rice cookers, but they're not available in the US. And they have like incredible pots, like pots that like you would bring to the table, like just nuts. And I was like, I don't know if it's gonna make the rice any better, and I'm definitely don't have two twenty, so I'm not you know what I mean. Dave is gonna he can convert it to two twenty for you. Yeah.
+
+[20:28] Well, well, so like I almost considered so get this. So uh oh, so ask you a question about the book. So when you're doing aren't you, which you say you do a lot for your family, uh I forget who in your family really likes the arrangines. Your wife likes the archini. My wife loves aren't chini.
+
+[20:42] Yeah, yeah. Cause you know why they taste good. That's the thing. Yeah, right. And so you do uh you do a mix of uh mushrooms and goat cheese in with the rice and then a fontina cube in the middle, some bread crumbs in the rice, roll it in breadcrumbs.
+
+[20:55] Am I good so far? They're great. Okay. So then uh uh but you do a it's not like it's shallow, shallow fry, but it's not a deep fry either. It's kind of like a halfway up the ball fry.
+
+[21:07] Yeah, and the cast iron. Right. So um is is the advantage of that for you just that you just don't have to use as much oil, or even if you had a deep fryer, would you do it that that way? I think when you're at home, frying makes people nervous. Right.
+
+[21:21] So my wife is like, okay, the whole house is gonna smell like oil. I love this. How can you make it happen? So the shallow or the semi-shallow fry works. If I had a deep fryer, electric deep fryer on the countertop, I would use it for a lot of things.
+
+[21:35] Yeah, and just drop those bad boys in and it'd be really quickly. But I do like the way it comes out, rotating them and staying with them on the stove top. Um, and then you don't have too much oil to throw away, or you can use it again for something else. But do you think that the do you think that the the end result is roughly similar when you do it that way versus like let's say you're at work and you're gonna drop it into a deep fryer? Do you have deep fryers at work?
+
+[21:57] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because you know why? They're awesome. I would say that the the great thing about the deep fryers, they're gonna fry evenly around together at the same time. This when you're sh when you're doing the sh the semi-shallow fry, you have to I do the counting method or I put a clock on to make sure I'm frying it evenly on both sides.
+
+[22:16] Yeah. Um so I would say that's the disadvantage. You know what I whenever I'm even even deep frying, like stuff that floats that's round. I hate it when okay, let's say you're doing something like this, right? And you put it in and the bottom sets, but because it's moist, that the top part that's out of the oil slightly inflates.
+
+[22:39] Yes. And now I can't flip it over anymore because as soon as you flip it over, it flips right back up the other side again. So then you gotta start using a spoon to the top of it. Is there a way other than just using something to weight it down, which is what I do when I deep fry? I I always have like, you know, like fish racks and I boom, I drop them on top of my stuff to keep them under.
+
+[22:55] Is there like if I if I spin it before it sets, can I stop that from happening? Is there any way to stop that from happening? Shallow is a good way because it's actually resting on the bottom. It's gonna stay where it's put. Yeah, I was gonna say probably you need less oil.
+
+[23:08] Yeah. So then when you flip it, it it it can't it can't flip back over. It's just gonna stay right down there and deflate and fry. Yeah. So maybe this is actually a point where the shallow fly fry is actually helping you because you can rotate it unless you have a deep fryer with the with the grate on top, like which is what I a hundred percent of the time do when I'm deep frying.
+
+[23:26] Do you have 220 in your house? Yeah, I got 220. Okay. If you have 220 in your house, Dave got Dave gave a shoulder shrug, 220, shoulder shrug. If you're gonna do it if you're gonna do it, I don't have 220 because I live in an apartment building that's wired from the 50s and I don't have 220, and I can't have it thousands.
+
+[23:41] I asked thousands and thousands of dollars. I have to, I have to pay off everyone between me and the main breaker panel to run wires through their house to get to my thing, and plus I have to pay a real electrician to do it because I can't do it myself. Thousands. I can't do it. I didn't say that it was done properly in my New York City apartment.
+
+[23:58] It's fine, man. It's fine. I'm I'm just you know, whatever. I'm jealous. Whenever I say things, it's because I'm jealous.
+
+[24:03] But the point is is that you then, if you have 220, I highly recommend you buy the Belgian fryer. Going back to John's thing, because they have a three kilowatt home fryer that's less than like less than 150 dollars on Amazon dot whatever it is, B. Yeah. And you just all you gotta do is chop it off and put it on a US 220 plug, plug it in, and it's the same size as our crappy 1700 watt things that choke. Because I've been testing it because I was before I was working again on my cocktail book, I was working on a cooking book, so I was doing a lot of frying because I my culinary life growing up, I fry.
+
+[24:40] I'm a frying guy. I've had a deep fryer in my house for 20 years, like a commercial 40-pounder in my house. I had to get rid of it because the hood didn't work as well in my new apartment. So I took it. I for a while I had a place I was.
+
+[24:54] Oh Dave, he said he was gonna bring he brought you tried to bring the 40-gallon fryer to his New York City apartment. Where what kind of apartment do you live in? Well, I had it. I had it in my apartment. Oh but then I moved apartments and then my extraction wasn't as good.
+
+[25:08] But basically all I cared about is frying. I gotta come see this. Here's what I did. I bought, well, I don't have it anymore. So I bought my fryer.
+
+[25:14] I bought my fryer in an auction. Okay. Right. In like 2000, in like two it was before 9-11. All right.
+
+[25:22] So I bought it like at an auction in a snowstorm, which is a great time to go to a restaurant auction because nobody goes out. The equipment dealers, like that crazy guy, Avi, who always buys the thing that you want, that guy. You know what I mean? Like, and but in auctions, it's you pay now, you take now. Pay now, take now.
+
+[25:39] Like, no choices. So I I I brought a hand cart with me. And I hand carted it from right by the World Trade Center up to my 38th Street loft. And in a loft, it's easy, right? We were, you know, maybe we were stealing gas.
+
+[25:52] I tried to get hooked up legit, but whatever. This is before a gas was a thing here. Right. You know what I mean? Anyway, so I hooked it up, and then when I moved to my apartment downtown because my kid was too old to live in a loft anymore, the way we were illegally, uh I my I built a hood, hood in quotes, air quotes.
+
+[26:09] Not safe. I don't recommend anyone listening build their own hood. And uh yeah, I fried for years and years there, too. I've always built a hood in my kitchen though, like in my apartment, because we live on the wall, it goes to the outside. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[26:24] So it was like I can run this pipe and then cut it in and slide it. Wait, you cut a whole. Do you want to? No, no, no, I didn't do this. I was gonna have somebody do it for me because it was like, I'm tired of smoking out my apartment.
+
+[26:34] And then I was like, yeah, I'll probably cut this hole. And next thing I know, I have like raccoons rolling in. You know, somebody like who who do you call then? You call the super, like I gotta call back the guy that put it in for me. So this before I had kids and uh you gotta do that.
+
+[26:49] You gotta do it. You gotta do it. Like, listen, it's like uh no, you just get a little okay. The reason I don't recommend it on the air is because somebody's gonna do something effed up and burn their house down. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[26:59] Sorry, Dave. I can't allow that. Right. So I I don't, I don't like, especially like the older I get, and the more I realize like how close I've come to like really getting effed up with some of the stuff that I do. I don't recommend it to other people.
+
+[27:13] But you should totally put a good hood in. Anyway, so get the yeah, get this Belgian fryer because it's three kilowatts instead of 1700, because there's 1700 watt fryers. It's like it's great if you want to make one piece of chicken. Who wants one piece of chicken? Nobody, nobody, and then you have to sit there and put it in a keep warm forever.
+
+[27:31] Hell with that. Speaking of frying, you know what's something? Every year for the past like 15 years, except for like one or two years, I have to go to New Orleans for this conference, right? Cocktail conference. I've been there a zillion times.
+
+[27:43] You know what I've never had? Kala's. Oh. So talk to me about it. Like, how did I miss it?
+
+[27:49] Where should I get it? You know, I I I think it's I think it's one of those things that are lost. So callus is in New Orleans. Um, it's an item that would be eaten for breakfast with your leftover rice and then fried, super delicious, cinnamon, nutmeg, all those flavors in it. And I think everybody when they go to New Orleans or Louisiana, they're like, I gotta get a beignet, I gotta get a beignet.
+
+[28:09] And they forget about everything else. But I think that's the most beautiful thing with rice, is that rice is so layered in history that you start to learn about places around the world that you never nobody taught you this. And I learned a lot about about callus. Women would have it in their heads and you know, walking around in the morning time, selling it to people going to work, or if you were coming out of the club or doing jazz fests. So I don't I was down there for Essence Festival and I was looking for it and I couldn't find it.
+
+[28:38] People tell me you you can probably find somebody like really, really early in the morning. Um but I went to Essence Festival like that was that year, like right after the pandemic. I'm sure you could probably get it now, but you gotta get up early, five, probably like 5 a.m. to catch it. Yeah, you know, uh, I don't get the beignets because it's the powdered sugar.
+
+[28:56] I like it, but then I always inhale when I'm eating them and I choke and then it's all over my clothes because I'm messy. Yes. But the collas don't have that much, they don't it's not like hyper sugar, right? No, no, I mean if you you can put it, you can put some like hit it with a little powder sugar, but you don't have to have the powdered sugar on it. Right.
+
+[29:11] Crispy outside, soft inside. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, really good. All right. So that's like that's one I was like, oh man, I feel so stupid.
+
+[29:16] Uh speaking of that, but that's a long-grained rice, though, right? Mm-hmm. Right. So uh interesting, like um like from the Delta. Yeah.
+
+[29:23] So some of the like like recipes that I thought were interesting, like you do a so again, the book is Simple Art of Rice. And for those of you that like, why don't you give the pitch on the book since it since you wrote it? The the book's called Simple Art of Rice came out October and September twelfth. And um basically it's it's a book that can help will help you cook rice. It will make your rice life easier.
+
+[29:47] Oh, I like that. Rice. So it's not, don't think of it as like, oh, I can't make all these chef-driven rice recipes. It's like the book first starts off with like how you cook long grain, how you cook short grain, how you cook medium grain, um, with what my re what my ratio is to rice, water ratio is to rice. And then as you master that, then you can get into these other rice dishes, but they start off pretty easy, everyday rice, you know, um, that takes you all the way to celebrations and dessert.
+
+[30:16] And the head notes will take you on a journey where that rice is from, the origin, who the people are, why it's delicious. Um, and that's what a lot of the stories do too. We interview people like David Chang, Dr. Jessica Harris, rice researchers, Glenn, Glenn Roberts from Anson Mills, to tell these other stories. So it's not just me telling you that rice is the greatest ingredient.
+
+[30:39] Right. It's these other people also letting you know, like, oh, I am connected to rice. And it and for me, what the book does, I think it's a thing that can connect us all, right? Rice is that ingredient that can really connect people because it could teach you about um, it could teach you about a region, could teach you about people or history um by just that one rice dish. If it's eating biryani or if it's having purloo or if it's eating gumbo, um, or realizing that wild rice is rice.
+
+[31:11] Um, all these things. You mean like you eat it like rice? No, it is rice. I mean, it's not the same genus. It's the grass.
+
+[31:19] Yeah, yeah, it's grass for sure. Yeah. Uh all right. So a couple of things to get out of the way early before I even start talking about um well, I'll say this first. Like uh what I like about it is one of the things I like about it is that um there are like a bunch of recipes for day old rice.
+
+[31:37] There's a bunch of recipes for like right, in other words, like any time you would use rice or have rice, whether it be already be cooked or not cooked, it's it's there. Like when there are beans, sometimes you're gonna use a canned bean, sometimes you're gonna use a dried bean, and I'm guessing like a lot of times you would let people be a little bit flexible. So it's like it's more about building rice into the way you think about what you're doing and not worrying about having it left over because you know you can use it the next day in X, Y, or Z. Would that be That's great? And I think a lot of people don't realize like they always have leftover rice, and they're like, ah, what am I gonna do with this rice?
+
+[32:13] I already made my rice dish for the week, but it's like, no, you can make a rice salad, you can put it in your waffles, you could do so much with it, you could drop it in your soup. And that's what we that's what I teach you in the book is like you want to have leftover rice so that you can do more with the rice, and it makes that's why I say it makes your life easier. Because I mean, when I cook rice, I'm cooking two cups or four cups of rice. I always have some leftover that I'm doing something with it the next day or or two days later. Now, question for you.
+
+[32:39] Uh when you say cup, you mean cup, not a rice cup, cup, cup, real like you at eight ounce cup. Eight ounce cup. Yeah, not like the Zoshi Rushi cup. No. See, my mind has been poisoned by the Zoshi Rushi Corporation to think that a cup is that a cup of water is still a cup of water.
+
+[32:59] First of all, my mind only thinks in MLs and grams, right? Unfortunately, I've been Europe by folks like him and by working at the French Culinary Institute for years. I mean, it is a better system for cooking. But uh, in terms of rice, I still think of liquid in terms of like cups, but I think of rice cups in terms of that uh, you know, whatever the Japanese measure is. I never really used it.
+
+[33:22] I kind of was like, okay, whatever this is to decide. And you actually like the finger trick. It makes me so nervous, I will never do it. Why? I don't know.
+
+[33:29] It works. Try it. Tell me. You you describe what I'm talking about. I mean, that's why I don't, when you're like, do you measure rice?
+
+[33:35] I'm like, okay, rice doubles in size. Most people don't realize that. And you need a large enough pot or your rice cooker to make sure that the rice can grow. It's gonna grow double that size. So before you put your rice in, if it has enough room to grow double the size of what it is, you're good.
+
+[33:52] And that's why the finger trick works. So you put the two cups or the four cups in, you put your finger on top of the rice, you bring it to the top of your first knuckle on your on your third finger, and um you put the top on, you let it medium heat, and it'll be good, it'll be ready about 22 minutes. So like I'm like, because whenever I think about it, like okay. You're like, it doesn't matter how big your hands are, I'm like, fine, that's good. I guess it's all like roughly same whatever.
+
+[34:24] Yeah, anyway. But I'm like, well, if the pan is wider, then like, but then if the pan is wider, you do need more water because more crap's gonna evaporate off the top of the pan. So I don't know. Like, I don't know whether all the variables are actually gonna always add up. And you're telling me just don't worry about it.
+
+[34:43] Don't worry about it. And maybe that makes my life better in the long run, but I'm not about my life being good. I I don't know. I don't I I have it all written down somewhere. I've done all these things, and I'm just an it just it just again, like I'm not most of the time actually, I am I'm using like uh I'll do like open, I'll do open pot for a long time and reduce flavors down.
+
+[35:05] Most of the time I'm cooking with stock. Okay. You know, when I'm cooking white rice or brown rice, when I'm using non-flavored rice dishes, I'm usually using whatever the Zoshi Rushi telling me to do. Like a Yeah, I just try to make it. I'm it is a big debate.
+
+[35:20] During the process of the book, people like recipe testers before they even tested the recipes were like, oh nah, you don't have two to one. Two to one what? Yeah, yeah. No, nobody cooks rice two to one. That is wrong.
+
+[35:33] You're getting mushy rice. Right. Or you're gonna, or you're gonna the rice is gonna stick together. That's why people don't like the rice when they're eating it, because it's like, why is it why is it sticking to my hand? Why can I throw it against the wall?
+
+[35:46] You want it to be, for me, I believe rice should be like pearls, it should separate. When you're cooking jasmine, long grain, California grain, Caroline and Gold, uh Delta Rice, Blue Moon, New Jersey rice, whatever it might be. I'm not talking boxed rice here. What about New Jersey rice? Tell me about that.
+
+[36:03] Oh, Blue Moon was beautiful. It's a I mean, Dan Barber introduced me to Blue Moon. Um, I didn't even know there was a rice far grower in New Jersey. And they are, they're not using the flood method. They're uh they're revitalizing crops.
+
+[36:20] And the north, the northeast used to grow a lot of rice years ago. And then it stopped. So Hudson Valley, Martha's Vineyard, New Jersey used to grow tons of rice. And then that rice crop kind of started that those that moved into like Arkansas, who produces the most rice in the world. So yeah, really?
+
+[36:39] Yeah, they put produce the most rice in in the country. No. They even make they even make rice for sake growers. Really? Mm-hmm.
+
+[36:46] So like they make good rice. No. Oh. So you're saying the sake people are using some. I'm not saying that they are not, but that that method in Arkansas is that flood method.
+
+[36:55] Right, right, right. Which a lot of people are asking them, a lot of those rice farmers to stop doing that because it's tied to climate change. Like, you know, at Anson Mill, they were pioneering that. Correct. Yeah.
+
+[36:59] Uh all right. Wait, where was okay? So another thing that you mentioned in your in your rice stuff, and this is another thing that makes me incredibly nervous. And it goes back to like years ago when um what was that? What was uh what was Rich and uh Jeremy's Koji book called again?
+
+[37:20] Koji Alchemy Alchemy, yeah. Koji alchemy. So Koji Alchemy came out, and uh uh Omansky was on the Jeremy Lansky was on the on, and he's like, Yeah, I cook all of my rice in hotel pans in the oven. And I was like, oh then you have like a you actually like can you actually make as good a rice in the oven as you can in a pot on the stove? Yeah, what rice peel?
+
+[37:44] Rice philosophers. I don't want to mean like just regular though, like regular rice white, like just make it like rice. I don't know, it just makes me nervous. You like the oven method? We can you could I I mean I do the I think the reason why I included the oven method was like some people cook so much on the on the stovetop, like thinking about Thanksgiving, and you're like, oh my god, I'm gonna make rice, I'm gonna make rice, I'm gonna make rice.
+
+[38:04] You can uh go to the oven and you can wrap it tight, plastic wrap, aluminum foil, and cooking in the oven. It's something we do have filter when those combi ovens aren't working. Right. Well, listen, I guess my my reac my reaction was because I think I'm pretty sure I can't remember, but I'm pretty sure he comes from a similar like brigade cooking background that you you know come from from, you know, um, you know, education wise, culinary education wise. And if you were taught by, unless it's one of a very few French people.
+
+[38:32] If you were taught that old French way of like like a lot of water in like a pan in the oven, it's just gonna be an I mean that's just like come on, man. Right? I mean, like, at the at this point It's not my go to method. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it is a method.
+
+[38:46] Right, right. But I mean, like, yeah, you know what I mean? Like dry on top and wet on the bottom. If you do it wrong. If you do it wrong.
+
+[38:54] Yeah. But I'm not telling you. I'm not telling you. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that.
+
+[39:00] Uh all right. So uh what am I missing? Oh, yeah. You grew up in the Poconos. Yes, I grew up in Poconos.
+
+[39:06] So like Northeast PA. Although, like it's so weird, like you go from Long Island to the Poconos. Those are two separate groups of people, yeah? Very two maybe, yes, two separate groups of people. Yeah, my grandfather was in World War II, and he uh he said he couldn't afford the taxes anymore.
+
+[39:22] Sold his house really quickly, and that one house became three homes in the Poconos. And we lived, so it was my mom lived with my parents around the corner was my Aunt Lisa and Uncle Donald, and then around the corner was my grandfather and my grandmother. And at her house, at my grandparents' house, my mom would drop us off before she went to work. She was a school teacher, my dad would drive to New York City. I don't know, he was crazy.
+
+[39:42] Yeah, that's crazy. And um that house was filled with my two great aunts, my grandfather, my grandmother, and they would just cook all day and have a blast. Yeah. And so uh, well, you describe it in the book. I don't I won't spoil it too much, but like until you were seven, you like the family had this like Sunday tradition of dinners with your with your grandma, and then you know, when she passed, you you do you already kind of, I guess she your nickname was fish?
+
+[40:08] Yeah, my uncle Donald gave me fish. I'm a very good swimmer. Yeah. You still go buy fish with some people at your family? Yes, actually, this weekend I was with some of them, and my uh my uncle's brother was like, fish, what's up?
+
+[40:20] I was like, oh, what's going on? But you know, everybody has like these kid nicknames. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're still a kid to the adults, it doesn't matter how old you get. You know, I've never had I've had epithets stick to me, but I've never had a nickname stick to me.
+
+[40:33] Uh it's weird. Anyway, um so for those of you that don't know New York area, right? There are a couple of like well-known, nice places that people would go who are from the New York area. So there's like the upstate New York Catskilly people, there's that like outer Long Island kind of people, and then there's like Poca nose kind of people, and they're like three different directions to go, right? And um, my mom actually wasn't any of those, like she we used to just only go in the summer.
+
+[41:06] She we would go up to Cape, she was more like a um like coastal kind of, but not Long Island coastal, like more anyway, whatever. So I never went to the Pokemon. You never went to Heart Shape Um Bathtub. No, and like so like, but I grew up watching you know New York TV. And so if for anyone who like grew up watching New York TV back in the day, we we knew about the everyone knew about the Pokenos and beautiful Mount Erie Lodge.
+
+[41:32] I knew you were going, I knew you were going there. Beautiful Mount Every Lodge. Yeah, uh what it's epic. That song is you ever been? Of course.
+
+[41:39] My high school's right down the street from it. No way. Yeah, yeah. What was it like? Uh the beautiful Mount Air Lodge.
+
+[41:45] Yeah, yeah. I was when I when we went, it was towards the end of like the Mount Erie Lodge days. Like when you were a young kid, you knew about Mount Airy Lodge. It's not a place you would go to. I mean, they say Frank Sinatra sang there, like it's freaking crazy.
+
+[41:58] Um, but then in high school, when we would be done with high school, we'd go there and play basketball or go ice skating. It was a place that's legendary. Now it's a casino. It's it's still it they brought it back. Oh, they did.
+
+[42:08] Same same building, same all that. Same kind of building. I think they added on to it, took some stuff off. But yeah, they brought it back. There's a casino there now.
+
+[42:16] I hear some of the bath rooms have heart-shaped tubs, but it was known for. Um, but yeah, we would go there, we would get kicked out as kids. Like after a while, they figure out that we weren't staying there, and then we would get kicked out. Was it like growing up in like vacation land? Like, is it pretty?
+
+[42:32] Like, so I've been to like Delaware Water Gap area, but I've never like that's different from my life. That's different, yeah. So you gotta go 20 20 minutes more. Like, I lived in the heart, like I lived in Mount Pocono. Many people say this area is the Pocono.
+
+[42:44] Scranton, Pennsylvania's not the Poconos. Wilkesbury is not the Poconos. Why is Scranton the electric city? Hello. I have no idea.
+
+[42:50] Sorry for everybody from Scranton. Um the Poconos, you know. Yes, when I grew up there, when I mean that where my parents still live there now, the the street is full, filled with houses of I don't think people are vacationing there. But yeah, I mean, Billy came up on the weekends from Philadelphia. Tommy was from New York Stand Island with the seven dogs that he would roll with.
+
+[43:16] Uh Tony Cole, like I know every, you know, and you would four-wheel, you would play hoops. Some people were gun owners and they would shoot guns. I mean, I remember my first time shooting a gun as at a young age, coming home telling my parents I shot a gun and my dad went and knocked on that person's door, and I never went back there ever again. Um, but it is a different life, different lifestyle. I think I loved living in the Poconos because it kind of rounded me out.
+
+[43:43] Like I was very close to nature. Uh I was very close to climate. Also, also you was you couldn't like if you got in trouble, it's because you did something dumb. Um, and you really were close with people because where people where you would hang out were at people's homes. So yeah, you would hang out at Paul Calavito's home or Matthew Davis.
+
+[44:04] So I talk about in the book, going to his house as a kid and eating Korean rice and it being the best rice that I ever had, and his mom like telling my mother, like, oh, he could come always come over here and eat the rice with us. Um but it was great. I think it's changed though. You know, after 9 11, the Poconos shifted. After the pandemic, it shifted.
+
+[44:25] I think in five years, like I go there now, there's so many developers there. There's so many indoor water parks. Oh, like that lone wolfy stuff. Yeah, like whatever that's called. Yeah, camelback.
+
+[44:35] Like I used to work there. Like, you're gonna see a huge change. You're gonna open something out there? I think the o I would. I probably will.
+
+[44:42] My mom, my mom is like on me about opening a field trip out there. Um I would open up a full service restaurant out there, but there's the liquor license is so hard to get. Like it's county by county. If you own a liquor license, you're going to sell it for like two million dollars. Let me ask you this though.
+
+[44:58] Like, is it the kind of situation where there you're allowed to like just like pay someone to be your quote unquote partner, and all you're doing is just giving them some like well, that's what a lot of people are trying to do now. They're they're like, okay, hey, I'm and they're putting it in like these develop like the hot they're building hotels so they could have multiple restaurants, and then that person that owns a liquor license is a partner, and that and this is going from generation to extortion. I hate this crap. Yeah, I don't I don't get it either. Um, I said you mentioned field trip.
+
+[45:27] Why don't we talk about the oh by the way, do you like um you like pictures of cute kids at your restaurant or you hate it? Pictures of cute kids? At your restaurant. I got it. One of our listeners.
+
+[45:36] Why not? Well, yeah, all right. How about that? This is from Vengroff question for JJ. Uh, what is your preferred method of rinsing rice?
+
+[45:42] Do you rinse once or twice and call it good? Or do you go on and on until the water is actually crystal clear? It's never crystal clear though. Come on, let's be honest. It's never crystal clear.
+
+[45:49] No, it's not crystal clear, but until the water's clear. Yeah. And how much do you alter even skip the rinsing process based on how you'll be cooking the rice? P.S. My daughter and I love field trip.
+
+[45:58] We have been going since you first opened whenever we're uh we don't where we are in or anywhere near Harlem she insist we stop in so there's at your at your I love that listen I I do love when I see the kids show the picture. I d what oh to where? To what? What the hell man it's not a good printo I do love when the kids when the parents come with the kids and the kids are eating Filtrip it makes me believe that the brand will be around for a long time. Like when I see high school kids eating at Filtrip I'm like, ooh, you have field trip or tourist kids in Rock Center eating at Filtrip.
+
+[46:32] But yes we rinse the rice always except for in the risotto that you say so yeah yeah no risotto sticky rice I tell you to soak overnight if you can but like if you're cooking just call it like steam like not steam rice but a pot of rice I recommend you rinse it so the water looks clear. Yeah I'm that's another one that gives me because okay you do it smart in a colander. Yeah so you can lift it out I do it dumb. And you'd go like this? Yes.
+
+[47:00] I do it like that sometimes too but when you're in a rush but I think I like I what I'll do is I'll fill up the thing and then I'll swish swish my hand in and then I'll and I'll pour it off but when you do that it's never clear. Do you like the re like the pre-rinse stuff? I don't ever use it. No, there's no such thing as pre-rinse. But you know what I'm talking about?
+
+[47:17] That's it. If I never use it. I just don't think, like, even if like Char here, I'm gonna ask you a question. Do you eat the pre-rinsed uh the pre-five time wash mixed greens right out the box? Hell no.
+
+[47:29] Okay. So that's what I want people to understand is like you the rice is grown in the farm. There's dirt, there's transportation. Like, if you don't want to wash it till the water runs clear, it's cool. Just wash it one time and then cook your rice.
+
+[47:42] Does anybody does anybody think that it's okay to eat those greens out of the bag? Oh, a lot of people do. All right, okay. So you you've just done a you've just done a public service, JJ, because like here's what I want everyone to do. Uh because no matter how long that bag sits in the shelf, it it's there.
+
+[48:00] It and so like I've opened so many bags of those things, and you smell it, and it's got that little bit of swamp. Yeah. Yeah. So you gotta pick through it, get rid of the swampy ones, wash that off. Come on, right?
+
+[48:12] I mean, yeah, I mean, I did it with spinach yesterday, cracked it open. I washed it out of like prep cooking. I was like, um, I call it like I'm a prep cook for my kids. Like, and I'm like picking through the spinach that I'm about to saute because it's swampy, and I literally just got it two days ago. Yeah.
+
+[48:27] Um, so you can't trust it. No, you can't trust it. I mean, so like, you know, we had uh the we had uh the crew from uh you know that show Risky or not, that podcast risky or not? No, it's good. So the the premise of the show is that people ask them, not like they won't tell you is this safe?
+
+[48:42] Because that's not what they do, but they're like, you know, they're food scientists, right? Uh and so, but they're like, is this risky? Would you eat this or not? And so like I asked them about the greens, they're like, Yeah, it's not risky. But I was like, Yeah, but it's not good.
+
+[48:54] Hold on, we see this happen every year, though. This is the problem. All of a sudden there's this salmonella outbreak. And they're like, oh my god, where'd it come from? Where'd it come from?
+
+[49:05] Always in Romaine. It's the it's the romaine or the mixed greens that you that are saying six, seven times, twelve time wash. And it's like, you gotta walk like you gotta wash the the the vegetables. Sean Oliver just covered this on last week tonight on Sunday. No, what do you say?
+
+[49:20] Did you agree with us? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, it's it's it's so like I tell people you gotta wash the rice. And I I actually let go of a recipe tester because she was arguing with me during the cooking process that was like, well, the bag doesn't say to rinse the rice. I was like, it doesn't matter what's the recipe, recipes.
+
+[49:38] Yeah, what are you saying? I'm like, you're not the right person for this job. Thank you very much. Let me ask you uh if you don't want to answer this, don't answer this. But I'm curious because like with the cocktail stuff, I I just make it a billion times, and a lot of the you know, ones I've had like the recipes from bars, right?
+
+[49:51] So like it's still it's good to get people to make them who aren't bartenders, but whatever. How expensive is it? Because I'm sure there's somebody listening who's gonna have this question how expensive is it to get like recipe tested? Oh, it's crazy. Like, I don't think people really realize how much is a a cookbook or beverage book, how much how many people are involved.
+
+[50:09] So, like Danica's a co-writer, so it's me and her. There's there was two recipe writers for this book, like to because I really wanted them to be where people can feel comfortable making it at home. Then there was two recipe testers because there's the debate about the water and the rice and the texture. So there's one recipe tester, then once another recipe tester, then there's an there's a co uh copy editor, right? And then there's a bunch of other people.
+
+[50:37] There's a designer of the book, there's a bunch of other people in between. There's a lot of people. If you put if you want to put out like a really premier book or something very thoughtful, so and you gotta run it like you run a business. You know, I say it all the time. Like, if you have a cookbook deal, it's like being a musical artist.
+
+[50:51] Like they upfronted you the money. Yeah. Now you gotta figure out how to make the money. Right, but yeah, they're they don't pay for anything, they just upfront the money and then you gotta do the budget and stuff costs more than what somebody told you it was gonna cost and all that. Nightmare.
+
+[51:06] Uh yeah, but it's like I was like, this is so much money. If someone was on the show, I forget who it was, who did cookbooks, and so she her fan base basically tests for her. I'm like, that's genius. Well, a lot of people do that. They'll tell their their other friends' tests or fan base tests.
+
+[51:21] Um, I think I don't I don't think she was totally self-funded. We gotta have her back on because I want to see whether she ended up making more money. She self-funded her whole book. And how did you do? I mean, she has a really big fan base and like her book's really pretty.
+
+[51:40] Like, she's a machine, man. So she came in. I forget the name. It was it was the it was cooking of the Italian islands, all the Italian islands, and it looked gorgeous, right? Gorgeous.
+
+[51:49] So she hired this, like, because she paid for everything, right? So she hired a photographer, I forget their name, and I was like, and it the book looks like it took months to shoot. Like yours looks like it took months and months to shoot, right? Because it's all different places and different stuff, different food. Uh, you know, you have like illustrations, like it.
+
+[52:06] So it looks like it took you up, but like uh, I was like, How long is this shoot? She's like, week and a half. I was like, what? Like all over Italy, like a travel book she did in like a week and remember that. Is it that blue book?
+
+[52:18] Uh the the I don't know. It was really pretty. And the picture's really pretty. And it was self-funded, completely self-funded. Like completely self-funded, self-published.
+
+[52:26] It's a little pain for like uh what's it called? Things like this, because it's harder to get copies because you don't have like a you know a publisher who's just sending crap out. But you know, but I'm I really want to have her back on the road. I do think a model though for me, not to go off topic here, but on the on the book side or even the TV side or on podcast side is like really getting investors against what you can do. Right.
+
+[52:49] Like if you're gonna get an investor you say I'm gonna write my book and then you're doing the deal with the cookbook with would McMillan or Flatiron random house like oh the book's done already do you guys want to publish it and how here's the book how much you want to pay me for the book. Right right I think there's a new there's gonna you're I think we're gonna see a lot of that. So you'll see some self-funded stuff that then are getting picked up by by big uh book houses. Yeah I mean she I she did everything including the printing. Wow.
+
+[53:17] Yeah. So I mean I'm I'm super curious. Also uh we're gonna run out I have a bunch of questions to ask you. Uh so you actually like spores it actually makes sense for rice stuff but I don't like eating like things that I actually want to stab with a spore. Yeah I like I like a sport because the debate about it like what's the best way to eat rice with a fork or with a fork or a spoon.
+
+[53:34] So spork works. Yeah. Also speaking of debates uh you uh did not wish to get into a fight about uh Joel off rice which I appreciate so instead you went like third part like a different one than than we're doing here. Still didn't save me. Yeah really still getting hollow the Liberians are coming for me.
+
+[53:51] Really? I have to say that that recipe looks delicious. It's got so much it's got it's got a lot it's like a very very flavor packed I mean I didn't make it but I mean looking at the recipe like very flavor packed recipe so they uh they said I I left out the mixed vegetables. I said it's my style on Joel off. All right so yeah so like uh so I like that you specifically are like I don't want to get into an art and and in fact you you know you say listen like I'm you know you've traveled all over the world you've tasted this stuff all different places you have your own rice culture from growing up and you're like I want to present like kind of this like world as you said earlier I think or maybe it was before we were on air like kind of like like the world of what's kind of possible with with rice and so people are gonna get bent people are just gonna get bent if you don't do their particular thing oh no people people have words like I've been on cookbook tour for a while and recently this past weekend the lady was like oh you make the John the Jean John I was gonna ask you about that oh wow I was like what do you mean because you're supposed to put the aluminum foil on the top of the pan at the end the last 10 minutes I was like but hold on does this anything happen with the cooking method like does it look right does it oh it tastes it tastes good but I want you to I just want to let so like people really come at you and it's cool I think that's what is great about rice that it has a lot of personalities a lot of people a lot of comments yeah when people grow up with stuff they get real bent speaking of that recipe uh so you're referring to uh a Haitian recipe and now I have super hardcore FOMO for this freaking John John mushroom it's hard to get spelled with a D folks DJ uh but like so anybody Haitian I mean yeah but like not I have uh not from a food world not like you know they don't need to be from a food world that's that's the people that know how to get it yeah all right yeah uh no it's really hard to get um that's why we did it with the bouillon cube and it even was that during the recipe shooting it almost didn't make the book because the bouillon cube took forever to come really and we were trying to figure out how to like make the rice this color what can we do?
+
+[56:00] Do we go get black trumpet mushrooms? What's it taste like to John John? And you don't you don't eat the mushroom, right? It's just in the broth and then pull. Is it right is the texture bad or is it like taste weird?
+
+[56:08] Or is it like slimy? Like why? Slimy. Yeah, yeah. It tastes great.
+
+[56:12] It's like very like if you love mushrooms, like mushroomy, lima bean, punch flavor rice that goes with a lot of great things. Um that's like one of those dishes where I talk about like learning about somebody's new culture, because then you'll make the Jean Jean and then you'll be like, okay, so why is it so significant to the Haitian culture? And then you go back and start doing your research, and you're like, oh wow. Yeah. So yeah.
+
+[56:35] And I've super FOMO on that. I'm gonna get that. I'm gonna get it. How close was the cube and flavor to the to the reel? Uh it's okay.
+
+[56:42] I would say five out. Like a six. Six? All right. So again.
+
+[56:45] But you know Haitian people, so you or somebody listening. Yeah. I'm gonna go hit up Merlett, figure out where this stuff is. Anyway, uh, all right, so some more stuff like this. Uh, first of all, I didn't know Pierre had a source he could ship Pierre Chiam.
+
+[56:58] I didn't know he had a source of the Glabarima rice. You went on a quest to get the glaberum rice. I have serious FOMO. I want some Glabberim rice. Is it everyone wants the Glabberima rice, man?
+
+[57:07] I have it. Everyone wants it. I have it. I haven't got it since then. Pierre says he can get it, but he lives in San Francisco now, so like no, he's everybody wants it.
+
+[57:15] Everybody wants it. How good is it? It's good. It's like very starchy, nutty, rice. You could feel when you touch it, you're like, oh, this is this feels pure.
+
+[57:24] I want the glaverine. And it was like we washed, we didn't wash it for five to the it took a long time for that water to run clear. He took us to Senegal. We didn't have the Glabberima rice. You know what I mean?
+
+[57:34] Anyway. Uh all right. Another soup, and we're gonna go more FOMO stuff. I can't even pronounce it. The sorghum leaves.
+
+[57:40] Pronounce that for me. That dish with the sorghum leaves where you with the the Oh, the whi the wake. Wake. Oh my god. So sorghum leaves.
+
+[57:50] Yes. I never I never cook with these boards. It's another like steep in, get color and flavor, and pull. That recipe is actually also interesting because when you use, like I think I mentioned earlier, like you know, you use canned, use dried. One of the recipes, uh, the tomato goes in at the beginning with the beans when they're dry, but there's baking soda to counteract the acidity of the tomato.
+
+[58:10] If you leave out the baking soda, that recipe's probably gonna be a pain in the ass behind for you. Yeah. But then on this one, so like that's like a standard like eighth teaspoon. Like I had some old beans in my house I've been cooking. Like they're old and they were stored high in my kitchen, so they're hard.
+
+[58:23] You know, they're never cooked. You know what I'm talking about? So I use them mainly for refried, even though they're not that kind of bean. But still, I have to add extra baking soda. I do not like the smell of heavy baking soda cooking beans until I neutralize them later.
+
+[58:37] Anyway, I digress. But the on this recipe with the sorghum, it's more baking soda than with the um other recipes with the dry beans. And I'm wondering whether that's because the sorghum needs more or not. You can pull out the more of the color of the sorghum. Yeah?
+
+[58:50] Yeah, just it's like active, like reactive moment that helps the sorghum color come out and with the beans. It's kind of like when you make Caribbean rice and peas, like you need the you need the bean juice, that pinkness to make the rice pink. Um that's what this does in the wake. And the wake is like hill rice in Ghana. Do I need to have do I need I need to try this rice?
+
+[59:15] Oh my god. That's another FOMO. And then some more FOMO. Golden Mountain sauce. What's Golden Mountain sauce?
+
+[59:19] I've never had Golden Mountain sauce. What is this? John, have you ever had Golden Mountain sauce? No, I've never even heard of it. We gotta get the book to know about the Golden Mountain sauce.
+
+[59:26] Oh man. And another one uh from Costa Rica uh in the Galapinto, uh, Lozano sauce. What's that all about? Oh, lasagna, you never had lasagna sauce? No, I never had lasagna.
+
+[59:34] You, John? No. Come on, hook me up. What is it about? It's like a tomato spicy-ish kind of sauce.
+
+[59:39] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's good. Yeah, it's really good. You might use it as a condiment.
+
+[59:44] All right. It's not hard to find. You could get it. You just can't get it. Like, you gotta think about the grocery stores you don't shop in anymore.
+
+[59:52] Like the Sea Towns. Yeah. They'll have those sauces. They'll have those things on the shelf. Yeah, my sea town.
+
+[59:58] Like Whole Foods ain't having that lasano. Are they gonna cut they're gonna cut us off soon? Okay. You don't love okra, which is funny, but you do cook it because you have to. Yes.
+
+[1:00:06] All right. But you don't like the sliminess. I don't like the slimess. And but your gumbo is okra, not filet. Yes, because you know when you uh put go when you put okra in gumbo, it comes from Mississippi.
+
+[1:00:16] All right. And they don't use filet in Mississippi? And your grandpa is from the border. From the border, yeah. All right.
+
+[1:00:21] Uh but they're gonna cut me off and I have more to ask you. Salt, you don't like adding salt to the rice if it's plain, but obviously if it's one with a stock or something, it's got in it. But you really think it takes that much longer, or do you really think the texture's that different? The salt in the water slows the cooking process down. But do you think it also changes the texture?
+
+[1:00:37] You kind of. Yeah. Uh when you're making your uh the chowal uh roti, it's like a rice dough, but it's with long grain rice. How's it is that dough it makes it seem like the dough is gonna be hard to come together. Does it come together easy or no?
+
+[1:00:50] It comes together. You gotta press it. Because it's fully cooked and then needed hot. Exactly. But it's an easy-to-do recipe.
+
+[1:00:56] It's easy to do. All right, I'm gonna do that. Do it with the kids. You didn't do anything, all right. I didn't do a lot of rices, so you probably wouldn't ask me why I didn't do it.
+
+[1:01:01] No, no, no, I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that to you. Your your TV gen, no gedge. Do you don't have any like no sort of fermented geggy stuff in it? You didn't uh I didn't want to add anything fermented to it.
+
+[1:01:10] I wanted people to feel comfortable making it. And then they can then branch off and learn about more of it. Because I love all that fermenty stuff in there. That stuff is great. Alright, I was just a curious.
+
+[1:01:17] I had to ask you about that. Talk to me about uh I don't even know how to pronounce this in Afrikaans, yield rice the with the sugar in it while it's cooking. Oh, yeah, South African yield was it good? It's great. You got that from a you know what?
+
+[1:01:27] Don't I like them in your book, you're like, I learned I learned this from like the family meal at a restaurant where I was cooking. Yeah rice always rice at every family meal in a restaurant is delicious. You know that yeah man I wish I had time to talk to you about freaking champarado and bico oh I'll say this uh it's not so much a question as a as a as a statement uh cheese rice grits yes yes yes I saw that recipe was that's the chili oil you had on the side I did chili on the side you know what that looks what'd it look it looks delicious I was like that is a smart move I wanna make cheese rice grits anyway uh I hope you had an okay time I had a lot more questions to ask you I didn't get to because I'm slow and I uh go around but anyway JJ Johnson the book is simple art of rice if you're a Patreon supporter please buy from Kitchen Arts and Letters and get the Patreon discount uh we love those folks and we'll be back next week with more cooking issues
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking News coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, Newstand Studios. Joined as usual with uh John, how you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yeah?
+
+[0:23] Yeah. For real? Yeah, for real. Okay. Can't complain, yeah.
+
+[0:26] You could. I mean, I could, yeah, but I don't need to right now. So wait, you can't complain because other people have it worse, or you can't complain because you don't want to complain. The latter. Don't want to complain right now.
+
+[0:36] All right. All right. Okay, cool. Uh got Joe Hazen rocking the paddles. How are you doing, Joe?
+
+[0:40] I'm doing well, man. Good to see everyone. Yeah, how's it? Nice hat. Oh, thanks.
+
+[0:44] I'm repping the uh I'm repping the uh the Edwards Age Meats hat. What do you think, John? How's that looking? Looks great. We're a fan.
+
+[0:50] We're a fan. Big fan. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Do we still have our uh thing with them?
+
+[0:53] Can they still uh Patreon people still I don't know about right now, but uh Edward came stopped by the restaurant the other week and he said he wants to get it going again for the holidays. So we will reach out to him and get something going. Yeah, his uh his hamburger mix. Have you tried his hamburger mix? I haven't.
+
+[1:06] I tried his beef jerky the other day, two different types of beef jerky. Very good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good products. Yeah, beef jerky.
+
+[1:11] Yeah, yeah. Uh well if we have time, which we won't, we'll talk beef jerky because I feel that like there's so many different kinds of beef jerky. And like some people like the teeth-ripping beef jerky, some people like the chummed-up jerky, like jerky chum. Yeah. You don't strike me as a chum guy.
+
+[1:27] No. I mean Dietrich's is the best beef jerky out there. Yeah. I'll say, yeah. Do you I like an Asian chum jerky though?
+
+[1:33] Like a chummed up sweet Asian jerky. Yeah, you know, I've only ever had that once, so I can't say, I mean, it was delicious, but yeah, I don't I need to. I consider it an entirely different product. Yeah. They're not the same.
+
+[1:44] No. Yeah. No. In other words, that is not the same as like a bull crap beef jerky where they just pulp the whole thing and shoot it out of a freaking tube and dry it and sell you that instead of real beef jerky in a gas station. Not the same.
+
+[1:56] Not the same. No. Not that I have anything against that product from the way I'm talking about. Yeah. All right.
+
+[1:59] Yeah. Uh we will not be having uh Quinny Quinn up in the upper upper left corner because uh he has to do some Quinn things today. So that's uh that's a shame. Well hopefully we'll have him back next week. Uh but we do have uh our usual uh Los Angeles crew in Los Angeles with our special guest today.
+
+[2:21] So we got uh Nastasia the Hammer Lopez, how you doing? Good. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay.
+
+[2:29] Uh Jackie Molecules, what's up? You uh you uh getting used to being back in the United Uh States of America. You're getting used to everyone being impolite again? Yeah. I have to say Yeah, exactly.
+
+[2:41] Yeah, I have to say, like, uh, you know, uh whenever I travel to a place where people are polite, like as much as New York City really, really, really, really grates on me, like I'm like, please stop being polite to me. Not that polite. Don't be that polite. Like, did it wear on you or did you like it the whole time, the politeness? No, I like it the whole time.
+
+[3:00] I like how orderly everything is and uh how quiet people are. Because I, you know, I don't know. Yeah, I'd I'd rather be there, but really it's fine. Okay. Mm-hmm.
+
+[3:12] Okay. Okay. And today's uh special guest, uh directly from Cato Restaurant in uh Los Angeles, where uh all of well, not you, not you, John. You're not a member of the not a member of the team anymore. Not you, Joe.
+
+[3:27] You were here in New York. But you know, whatever. We did take McGee. Uh yeah, yeah. All the cool people, I guess.
+
+[3:36] Yeah, yeah, all the cool kids went. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh Han Suk Cho. The uh now, so Han, uh how you doing, Han?
+
+[3:43] How you doing? Hello. Thanks for having me. Oh yeah. So uh what what's your what's your what's the title at I don't want to get it wrong, what's the title at Kato?
+
+[3:55] My title at K2 is bartender. So but like like are you like the head bartender though, right? Or do they not have that? Is like it like how does it work? Like I don't know how you guys work it.
+
+[4:05] You know what I'm saying? Um, well, it's a very small three people team and our our director is Austin Hanelli and his two kids are bartenders. Yeah, yeah. All right. Uh and uh you were named uh what was it best was it this year's like best bartender in the universe by Punch or something like this?
+
+[4:25] Like best best bartender galaxy. There's something like this. I don't remember what it is. Well so what what was that? What was the award you just got?
+
+[4:32] Yeah. Yeah. It's uh punch's best new bartender of twenty twenty-three. But uh uh what uh what I don't understand about that, congratulations, is uh you're not not an you're not a new bartender. Um I mean like new compared to me.
+
+[4:48] You know what I mean? Like new compared to someone who's about to die. But you know, it's not it's not like you it's not like you woke up yesterday and started doing this, right? You've been you've been doing this for quite a while, no. I guess what what's what counts as new?
+
+[5:05] Well, that's a very deep question that I can't really answer to you. Yeah, but I've been in the restaurant industry for like a little over a decade, but as uh like alcoholic beverage, bartending, it's been about a year. Well, but do were you weren't you doing NA programs all the way back before the pandemic in like twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen? Yes, but that wasn't exactly the bar setting. Um creating yeah, pairing programs, but they uh didn't have like the physical bar.
+
+[5:43] Yeah. I once saw somebody win an award for best new chef who was in her 40s, and when she got the award, she was like, Thank you, but I've been doing this a long time. Anyway, uh but I get what you're saying. It's like uh because you're saying it wasn't in a bar bar atmosphere. But of course, Cato is also you're at a bar, but it's also a restaurant too.
+
+[6:04] No. I always think that's a restaurant bar. Yeah, I always think the cocktail media has really I'm glad it's it seems to be changing, but they've always kind of shortchanged restaurant programs, restaurant bar programs. Um, and usually it's because the chef, I you know what I'm being non-charitable, but it's usually because the chef, I think doesn't want the extra limelight to go to the bar program, and so the PR dollars aren't behind it. That's my guess.
+
+[6:29] Cause as you know, like PR does work. You know what I'm saying? But that's an interesting point because m a lot of times bars are you know, the most profitable part of you know, department of the restaurant. So I think the restaurants should start highlighting the bar more so they can make more money. Well, as a you are a uh so people know, you were formerly uh you're one of those back of house, you're one of those creative type back of house, front of house train like trajectory folk, which I a hundred percent appreciate, right?
+
+[7:06] Because uh correct me if I'm wrong, you started as a a composer. Then chef. Yes. Yeah, then b then bar, right? Um so so you have a good perspective on this.
+
+[7:20] I think uh a lot of it also is that uh I hope this is changing since the pandemic, but you know, there's always been so much friction between the back of the house and the front of the house crew just because of the money. You know what I'm saying? Um that the back of house also is just so mad that the it in a typical restaurant, I'm not saying in your place, but in a typical place at the front of house crew is pulling down so much more money per hour than they are. And I think that's also causes some of the friction. Well, I think that issue has been changing a lot, especially since pandemic, and you know, I see more back of the house folks leaving the industry more than front of the house because of the similar reasons.
+
+[8:05] So a lot of like business owners and you know the directors are steering the direction of everybody getting getting paid pretty similar, which is a great change I'm I've been witnessing. Yeah, well, uh those yeah, the the whole labor structure in restaurants is so deeply broken, I don't really know what the answer is for fixing it, to be honest. And I don't think there's any way that we could I don't I don't even know what what a good position is. I've s most attempts I've seen, good attempts, seem to I mean, a couple people have it working well, but it's tart, right, John? Yeah.
+
+[8:43] That's someone who's dealing with this right now. Yeah. It's real hard. It is. Yeah.
+
+[8:47] Yeah. Yeah. You know. Anyway, I don't know. Um, so uh this is the portion of the show, Han, where we just kind of shoot the breeze.
+
+[8:54] I enjoyed your cumquats that you gave us, by the way. Good to enjoy. Yeah, yeah. So we were we so we all went to Cato. John wasn't invited.
+
+[8:59] I don't know if you know that, Han. John wasn't he wasn't invited, but I hate you. But Nastasi and Jack and I got to go. Hey, you know, uh it's taste, so we had a whole tasting. I don't know how to do it.
+
+[9:13] Oh amazing. Oh, that's so cool. Tell me more about it, please. Well, there was also a non-alcoholic flight and an alcoholic flight. Yeah.
+
+[9:19] Cool. It was nice. Amazing. I wish I could have had partook in that experience. Yeah.
+
+[9:23] Yeah. Oh, but you weren't invited to that one though. Oh, yeah. Just like I um, but you know, uh on the downside, you would have had to go to a poly shore show afterwards. Fair okay, that's fair.
+
+[9:35] That's fair. Yeah. So it's like, you know, you know, a little bit of a trade there. Los Angeles give it. Los Angeles, take it away.
+
+[9:41] Yeah. Yeah. You know, not not to insult Nastasia's boyfriend. Uh all right. So not going out with Polly Shore, at least not in the real life.
+
+[9:54] Okay. Don't spread that. I just said you're not. Okay. For real, not.
+
+[10:01] She's not. She's not. She just keeps running into him in coffee shops. Anyway. Uh all right.
+
+[10:07] So uh now's the portion. Now is the portion on Sprockets when we talk about the week in review. Any interesting uh food and or beverage uh issues happened to anyone in the past uh week. So Dave, um I went to an Oracing salmon event. Oh my god, I wanted to go to that.
+
+[10:23] So oh, you sons of guns. Yeah. You were in New York, or there was one out in LA. No, it was out in LA. I was flying back the day that they had the one in New York, and I heard that yeah, you would it was great.
+
+[10:33] I heard the official huge enormous huge. That's how he gave us like 30 or 32 pounds. All right, so I you know I love Laura King, but not that they're no longer a sponsor, is the big fish I'm kidding, I'm messing with you. Does it does the big fish uh so like you know, John Fabro, who was uh the person there, Mike my ask Michael, my brain just you know my brain fuzzes out sometimes. Old.
+
+[11:01] You know me? Anyway, so uh I want to actually we need to have him on the show at some point because you know he's doing Ikajime with his uh coho salmon, and his coho farm was just in uh in the New York Times recently. Uh something about sustainability on it. Uh maybe with the Ora King salmon article stuff too. There's just like a whole salmon article in the New York Times that came out last week.
+
+[11:23] Yeah, he sent it to me, and I only had one takeaway from it. You ready for it? The average person eats in the United States of America. How many pounds of salmon do you guys in LA think the average person eats a year in the United States? Five.
+
+[11:40] She says five. One. Okay. Anyone on? Anyone?
+
+[11:44] One. Han, what do you think? One is my guess. Hon, are you gonna do prices right here? You're gonna go like it.
+
+[11:50] Three whoa, three is the ding ding ding. Three is the answer. Oh and so like I look at that and I'm like, well, hell, Booker is like 52 Americans right there. Kid, you know, the kid will eat you know, three pounds of salmon in a day. You know what I mean?
+
+[12:05] Like uh, you know, if he had infinite money, he would single-handedly wipe out all salmon on earth. You know, he's more than a freaking bear. Kid is nut. Anyway, so I saw that three pounds, and I kind of wanted to show it to Booker, but of course he won't read it if I show it to him. Like, Booker, the average American.
+
+[12:24] So there is no person who has eaten this quantity of salmon ever, and so nobody knows what happens to your health when all you eat is salmon. You know what I'm saying? In the same way that that, you know, a couple of months where he ate the food service jar of squid ink in like a couple of weeks. No one has ever eaten that much squid ink. Like, even if you were trapped on an island and you dried down all the squid and all you ate for a week was ink sacks, you would not eat as much squid ink as Booker consumed when he went hard on the ink.
+
+[12:57] Anyway. Binging is bad, you know? Yeah. I mean, I don't want to talk. Anyway.
+
+[13:05] Uh, so the Oracle was so the was the big salmon as uh delicious as the normal size salmon, more or less, or same. More or less same. I mean, I don't know. I didn't have a side by side, you know. Oh, they didn't do side by side.
+
+[13:19] Well, they did side by side. I don't know how they did it for you, Jack, but first they did a side by side of the fresh and then of the two week aged. Oh, how was that? Interesting. Okay, I don't want to hear interesting.
+
+[13:28] What's the difference? Because it dry aged. Because you know, Harold McGee is super interested in this whole dry aging of fish. I mean, the texture was a lot firmer. On the on the old oh, but it's on the dry edge.
+
+[13:40] Because it dehydrated. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Um color color darker. Uh-huh.
+
+[13:45] Looks, I mean, obviously looked like a little dried out, but the color was just a lot darker and more pronounced. Um flavor. Flavor was good, still just as clean. The fat melted a little differently. Not rancid or oxidized.
+
+[13:59] I mean, it must have trimmed a lot off the outside, huh? I think they only trim like the scales off with a knife. And then so you still have that like really thin layer of skin on the outside. Oh, really? Yeah.
+
+[14:10] They left the white. You could see the white. Yeah, yeah. That's some bizarre stuff. That's some weird.
+
+[14:15] I don't know. I never leave that white crap on. I mean, like, you're not dry aging either. No, I meant when they serve it. Oh, no, no.
+
+[14:21] When they when for the dry edging, they left all that on, but when they served it, they trimmed everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. You ever seen uh the old Japanese trick on like uh flat fish of cutting the scales off without cutting the skin? I don't think so.
+
+[14:36] Oh, it's sick. Sounds fascinating. Han, you seen that one when you were when you were uh working in restaurants? I love that. Where they they just slice the scales off.
+
+[14:44] Sweet. It's awesome. That's what this guy does, I think. Yeah, they go backwards and they slight, not scraping, they literally like cut like on a fluke or something. They'll just cut the scales off, and it's still gray.
+
+[14:55] It's still the skin. That's what they did to the salmon. Yeah, it was very cool. Yeah, it's super cool. Because it comes off like in a line.
+
+[15:01] They're like should booing, and the scales just not like uh you know what I hate? I hate when you're scaling something like uh, you know, like a like a northeast weasel like I am, and you're sitting there and the freaking scales are hitting you in the eye, they're like falling in your in your drink. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Speaking of this, my stepfather's up on the cake.
+
+[15:19] Does it make the skin like taste better when it's cooked because it's not as um dented? What when when they do with the knife? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know, because uh they weren't really cooking the stuff that they were that we were working with with that.
+
+[15:36] So I don't know, I never cooked it when we did that. It's an interesting question. I can't remember the last time that I worked with fluke where we cooked it. Most of the time when I we were getting fluke back when I was working with that stuff, we were getting it, you know, fundamentally live and right out of the water, and we were doing raw prep on it. Um crude-styly preppies.
+
+[15:59] I don't know. It's a good question. Uh but apparently bluefish are hitting like like a mother right now up in uh up in Cape Cod, like just like huge freaking bluefish. Get this. So my stepfather's a surfcaster, right?
+
+[16:14] And uh, so you know how like there's been a lot of shark attacks, right? I mean, more than normal. Yeah, well, it's because there's so many freaking seals, and so the sharks come in to eat the seals. But you know how like seals are protected? I mean, unless you're with you know, Jack at a restaurant, in which case probably that's the appetizer.
+
+[16:33] Wow. But um, so what happens is that you catch a bluefish or a striper, and the seal's just like, no, you don't. And the seal just grabs the fish and then just eats it. Well, and you can like the seal is strong enough, it's like a dog. You you know, you can't pull it out of the seal's mouth.
+
+[16:57] It'll just break your line. So you just have to sit there and wait for the seal to be like, because the seal doesn't usually eat the heads, he says. And so like you just reel a head in. So, like, you know, if you're if you're with a buddy, which he never is because Givard hates people more than he hates almost anything else, right? Uh, if somebody casts towards the seal, they'll duck down, but then they'll come they'll come right back up, get your fish.
+
+[17:22] You guys have this problem in California? Seals eating your fish. No, not yet. No. Uh so Han, question.
+
+[17:34] Uh so you started as a composer. I think that's interesting. Uh, what kind of compositions? Like what style of music that and and in I heard that you you started working in restaurants to kind of supplement because you know, you weren't no one was getting rich composing music. Is that correct or no?
+
+[17:53] Oh, that is pretty accurate. Um I was doing classical music composition. Yeah, a little like timber music for like classical instruments. Right, but like like uh like tonal stuff, atonal stuff, like what style of like classical, like stuff that like like super avant gardy stuff or or what? Um I um I used to call myself a fugue guy because I loved fugue at some point.
+
+[18:24] But you weren't like doing organ you weren't doing organy stuff, it wasn't organy style fugues. I used to listen to you cannot have a stereo loud enough. You know what I'm saying? A fugue s needs to be super loud in my ears. Needs to be so loud, needs to drown out your existence in my opinion.
+
+[18:39] That's how I like to listen to it, but yeah. Yeah, that's one way to do it. Uh I was writing more like you know, flute and piano or like flute and violet. Flute. I heard I heard fugue.
+
+[18:54] I heard I was thinking to fugue in D minor. I was like, I was like, I want like you know, fan of the opera to come punch me in the face. I heard fugue. I apologize. Do you also like fugues?
+
+[19:06] That's like um written in fugue uh form. Okay. I need you to get together with uh Nick Coleman and do flute versus Bansouri. Uh I want it to be like dueling banjos. You get to be the normal one, and he gets to be the weirdo on the porch if you've ever seen Deliverance.
+
+[19:31] Let me know when I should hang up. I wonder, like, have you you you've heard dueling banjos before, right? Right, Han, the tune. I don't I don't think so. Oh my goodness.
+
+[19:44] Oh my goodness. Do you uh uh I mean are we cleared to play that? I mean, like uh I I met so one of our old interns who's an author, uh her dad wrote it, and we met him, uh Brick Brickman, uh Marshall Brinkman, who was like, he came up with a Swedish chef. He's like like an e-he's an e-got. Okay, right.
+
+[20:01] And he shows up and he had arthritis at the time, so he didn't play that much anymore. He's like, I wrote dueling banjos. I was like, what? So you know, bing, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, bleeding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, bing, ding, bing, ding, ding, anyway, so you need to do this, but with flute and bansuri, and the the way it works is is that one person is like portrayed as being just like he grew out of the porch he's sitting on and has never moved. And the other one is like, you know, just a tourist.
+
+[20:36] It ends poorly. Oh, uh, oh whoa, man. Oh no, don't look, don't look at John tells me to look at the screen, and Joe's like, don't look at the screen. All right, so uh back to where we're talking about. So you're at the restaurant.
+
+[20:46] I wouldn't, I don't know why I'm going there because I was curious. When you were at the restaurant cooking, you I heard that you were your specialty, and I love this, and I'm gonna ask you about it, Tempura. The you were a fryer person. You you you you spent a lot of time next to a fryer. I appreciate anyone who fries a lot.
+
+[21:06] Yeah, I once I realized that the fun of you know cooking between water and oil. Yeah, oil is a little more dangerous and tend to be a little more fun and kind of slightly more delicious than water blanching. No, yeah, of course. I mean, oil's gods. Oil's gods cooking.
+
+[21:28] Come on, please. But my question is when you're doing uh tempura, so I have a like a like a when you were serving it, were you serving it? Like, how did the service go? Did it go like directly? Did you use like a like a traditional, like, like wide, shallow tempura fryer, constant skimming directly onto somebody's plate, or but because it was at a restaurant, did it have to get like go through a pass and go out?
+
+[21:52] Did you have to watch it sitting on the pass and your and your your heart is crushing yourself and you're beating your head against the wall because you see it dying? Like, how did it work? Um definitely the latter. And I did beat against my my head on the wall for a very long time. But but that's just you know, it is what it is.
+
+[22:11] And when you go to Japan, you see, you know, like little bento boxes that's been made for a few hours and has tempura in it. And that's also kind of a beauty of it. I know like that tempura sounds terrible, but that's also beauty of it, just like cold pizza. Well, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold up.
+
+[22:32] So I know that there is a whole bunch of people on earth who love cold pizza. I'm just not one of those people. Do you love you love cold pizza? I also, by the way, I understand that picnics are fun. Don't don't even tell me that picnics aren't fun.
+
+[22:47] Uh cold fried chicken crap on that too. Seriously. Like, you know what I mean? Like rip the skin off, recrisp that, make the rest into salad, call it a day. That's you know, like I'm like, ooh, it's oily in mealy.
+
+[23:00] Awesome. Great. Picnic. You know what I mean? Like, uh, but I realize that I'm a bad person, that I am the abnormal one here.
+
+[23:08] All right. So what do you guys think about cool pizza mine? The point of picking it is that you are out. Yeah. Right.
+
+[23:21] So like yeah, I mean, like, yeah, I would rather whatever. I I get it. You made fried chicken the night before and you know, you're gonna take it with eating the painting. I get it. I get it.
+
+[23:30] Whatever. Uh all right. When you're doing tempura, uh any tricks for us. Um yeah, this doesn't exactly work when you are um battering something that absorbs the batteries, such as mushrooms, but when you're making like tempura with like vegetables, you know, like carrots or like sweet potatoes and whatnot. Um reducing the ratio I don't have the exact ratio, but reducing the ratio of water slightly lower and adding vodka helps to make it lighten up if you want to make your temperat a little bit lighter.
+
+[24:17] Right, so you're pro you're pro the the vodka in it. How often would you remake your how often do they make your did you choose to remake your uh your batter? Are you one of those clumpy ice people like ice plus clumps? I do I put in the ice bath so I don't have to like keep um adjust the the thickness. Yeah.
+
+[24:37] Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Temporary man. Ice bath or yeah, ice with a lot of like salt when the kitchen is really hot. Yeah, constant skimming hell with it.
+
+[24:45] Hell with it. Anyway, all right. So uh so let's talk about non-alcoholics what do you well what do you want to I have a question for you actually so you're known now for for making uh non-alcoholic uh non-alcoholic drinks, um doing non-alcoholic pairings. Um I have a question. I'll just do the question.
+
+[25:03] Should I just do the question? Do it the question. I gotta read it because it it uh it's on a tiny screen, so you have to apologize. Uh I have to apologize. All right.
+
+[25:11] This is from JPM question for Han. Uh question about developing NA drinks. When it comes to cocktails with alcohol, people often talk about basic formulas, not basic in the sense of like bad, I think. Right. People still use that term, call you basic, meaning you suck.
+
+[25:27] Yeah. Meaning you're a plebe. Yeah. Yeah. Sub basic, basic.
+
+[25:31] Uh when it comes, I mean, I'm proud sometimes to be basic, you know what I'm saying? A basic man with a basic plan. Um basic formulas that most drinks fall into, uh, e.g. stirred drinks, old fashions, Manhattan's, Negroni's, etc. Although those are all well, all for those are all stirred drinks.
+
+[25:47] Old fashion is not a stirred drink though, JPM. Built different, different whole different set of criteria. Uh also talked about uh Death and Code Mr. Potato Head method where you take a drink that you know that works and just sub in a similar way. Uh have you found that there are similar templates for non alcoholic drinks?
+
+[26:04] Uh also have you found non alcoholic drinks to be as flexible as ones with alcohol in them when you're using the Mr. Potato Head method. What do you think? I recently learned the Mr. Potato Head method.
+
+[26:23] And before that, um Yeah, doing non-alcohol in the sology first was definitely like different experience. Because there was like no like non-alcoholic books, not not many of them in 2018. But what I like to um substitute alcohol like base spirit is I like to use either like teas, either caffeinated or non-caffeinated, or any like um forage material concoctions or even clarified fruits or vegetable juice. But not um a lot of times it's not like too strong to take over the whole drinks. So I can like season it with different you know, syrups or um alcohol-free bitters.
+
+[27:19] Oh, so do you uh speaking of alcohol-free bitters, something I don't actually have that much experience with is like uh using glycerin as an extraction base. So how like when you're I'm assuming you're using glycerin as an extraction base with non-alcoholic bitters as well as doing just like tisanes, which is a stupid word, but I apologize for using it, but you know, whatever, I don't know what to say. Um I really hate that word. I even hate that even more. Um but uh yeah.
+
+[27:48] Free and francophone, francophile. Anyway, so have you done a lot of work with glycerin extraction? Yeah, that's been um incredibly useful for non-alcoholic cocktails because you know you can season it with a lot of things. Um and I use this method where you um vacuum seal the or crawl back the glycerin with whatever the spices I wanna use and su be it for 165 Fahrenheit for 45 minutes. So it's like a quick bitter method, but instead of using alcohol, I'm using the suple glycerin.
+
+[28:33] I wonder how pressure would work with glycerin. Or like pressure plus heat. I should test it. I should test it right now. Um but uh color extraction is usually also pretty good with like uh fruits with glycerin, right?
+
+[28:49] Yeah. And uh for the like base like base liquid. Um I wanted to publicly share this knowledge I figured out late recently, which is um when you're using like spinzole for like fruit or vegetable juice, after it was spin and shoot off the spout, there's always like little layers of foam on top. Skin skinning that makes a huge difference of the um clarity. Yeah.
+
+[29:23] Well thanks, and thanks for pushing the spinzel. I appreciate anyone pushing the the spinz all right, S. Oh look, I can see you guys on the screen now. I did not know you're up there. I don't know what's going on.
+
+[29:36] I just work here. There's a spincil right there. Oh, really? Oh, you got the spinz all on the thing? Lift it up.
+
+[29:42] You know my eyes suck. Or no, the cerez. Oh, steerzol, stereozol, seriously. All right, oh jeez. Yeah.
+
+[29:50] Well, we gotta get you. Well, yeah, would you use one? I would use it. All right. All right.
+
+[29:57] Get you one of the get you one of the E Bs. So now, when you're if you're using a bitters with glycerin, you're already going a long way towards adding body back to a drink that's going to be low in sugar. But if you and I've heard you talk about it, so you know, I know you do, you want to reduce the sugar, and I've had your stuff. It's not like sweet, not cloying, right? So if you're doing like uh especially a carbonated drink that you want to drink uh adult, right?
+
+[30:23] So i.e. low sugar, and you want to get the sweetness down to like the equivalent of like the equivalent of like five, six bricks, right? I'm assuming somewhere in there. Not that not how much is in it, but what it tastes like, right? The sweetness taste, right?
+
+[30:36] Uh so what what kind of techniques do you what kind of techniques do you like to do to reduce the sugar? Like glycerin, I use glycerin all the time. That's my favorite. But like do you use alternate sugars or or what what do you what do you like? Yeah, I actually don't use um alternate sugars.
+
+[30:55] And yeah, I use a glycerin for the flavoring, and like if the drink needs just sweetness, I just use regular, you know, cane sugar, because that feels the best with your tongue. But most of the drinks I make is just no sugar, like sugar kind of sweetness added. Right, right. Just whatever came with whatever was there. Yeah.
+
+[31:25] Right. But that's when like uh yeah, that's when like for me, especially like it's difficult. That's why I just use glycerin. But there's gotta be other stuff. Like I know people who use um less sweet sugars and they're adding a lot of it.
+
+[31:38] What's hilarious to me is is that like they have all the calories of a standard of a standard soda, like all the calories of a standard soda, because you're actually consuming that much sugar. And for some reason, I don't know, I need to get over it. I have a mental issue because I consume beverages so quickly that the idea of just pounding that much sugar, whether it tastes sweet to me or not, just kind of mentally bothers me. You know what I'm saying? Does that make sense?
+
+[32:04] Because like I grew up drinking, um, I grew up drinking, I don't drink flat water. I've never drunk flat water like my whole life. I don't drink flat water unless I have to. If I'm going to a place and I don't want to make everyone else at a table pay for sparkling water and sparkling water is not free, I will drink the flat water. But in general, I don't drink flat water.
+
+[32:24] And so I drink such a huge amount of liquids that it I don't know, something about drinking large amounts of sugar just drives me nuts. I don't know what it is. Mental problem against I don't know. What do you think? Not about my mental problem, but about sugar.
+
+[32:39] Also using like the base um something like fragrance to like mimic the feeling of drinking something sugary, but there's no sugar, especially as like was math as flour or something, you know, tastes smells like vanilla or caramel through the keys. It kind of helps to sting the drinkers like this is like off dry or like slightly sweetened, but there's no like actual sugar added. Yeah, some things do do that. Like uh we used to do a a thing with um uh gymnemia silvestre, which is you know um herb supplement, and we would break it out of its pill. It's disgusting.
+
+[33:18] You would swirl it around your mouth and it tastes incredibly bad. Uh Stas can verify this. She's done it many times, and then you can't taste anything sweet. It wipes out your sweet taste. It's disgusting, right, Nastasia?
+
+[33:31] No, bro. It's the worst. And then, like, you know, but everything tastes dead neutral except honey. And I think it's the aroma. So even though like you literally don't have the ability, your tongue no longer has the ability to taste sweetness.
+
+[33:47] You still perceive sweetness when you're doing the honey. It's interesting to me. Um I used to use this trick. Um kind of it it sounds bad, but when you use just a little bit, it adds the sweetness, which is using clarified bell pepper juice, like the paprika, the big sweet bell pepper. The red one.
+
+[34:12] Yeah. Like the juicy one that does that is not exactly like peppery, but more like sweet ones. Because they have a lot of like water content. So clarify it and just adding it hint, gives a nice um slight sweetness, but you can't really tell what it is. Huh, it's interesting.
+
+[34:31] Uh you know, I have to try it because uh I have tried using it in alcoholic drinks, and I've never tried using it as a very small amount modifier, and because it gets weird when it's when there's a lot of it, you know what I'm saying? When it's the primary, it's kind of weird. I don't know why I think that, but I've always thought it's kind of weird as a primary. What do you think? Yeah, that's why it works as a like modifier, just like adding a little bit of MSG in your food too, like oomph a little flavor.
+
+[35:07] Do you do any uh MSG in your NAs? I find it difficult sometimes. Like uh sometimes it's okay. Yeah, not MS. Yeah.
+
+[35:14] Yeah. I had to do something savory the other day for uh Dave Chang for the recipe club. And I tried a couple of different things to add a little bit of savory, but I ended up going with something that was more sweet savory than savory savory. I ended up going with coconut aminos because it's kind of like straddles that line. Anyway, I couldn't even believe I still had a bottle of coconut aminos around.
+
+[35:38] People still use that stuff? I think so. This one is like aged. So my coconut aminos are like vintage coconut aminos from when that first happened, like I don't know, eight years ago or whatever. Everyone's like, oh, if you tried coconut aminos, no, I'm gonna buy it.
+
+[35:51] And then it's still around. I mean, it's still a liquid. You know what breaks after a while? Elixir vegetal. You ever st store that too much?
+
+[36:00] Chartreuse elixir vegetal? No. Breaks. It breaks, the chlorophyll goes shiboig, like flocks together, thing turns brown, crap settles to the bottom. Not pleasant.
+
+[36:13] Doesn't sound pleasant. Great product, not a pleasant thing to have happen to it. And I've had standard chartreuse that's like old as hell, and it's fine. But the elixir vegetal, maybe don't age it for years and years. All right.
+
+[36:27] Uh all right, guys. But if the coconut amino got like better after it's aged. You know what, hon? I gotta go buy a new bottle and see. It was sweeter than I remember it.
+
+[36:38] You know what I'm saying? It was is it always dark brown? It was dark brown, sweet, like almost, yeah. I mean, I felt like it wasn't oxidized, but maybe more matterized, right? If that makes sense.
+
+[36:50] So it was like, I'll buy a new bottle of it and I'll see side by side. But I don't think anyone, I don't think it's worth somebody go around and stockpiling this and waiting eight years and then starting to serve it and always making sure that they have it. I don't think it's like that worthy, but it did work in this drink. So get this. Chang wanted me to do my pork chili recipe as a cocktail.
+
+[37:12] Can you imagine anything more horrific than that? Can you imagine anything worse conceptually than that than a pork chili cocktail? That's gross. I don't want that. Anyway.
+
+[37:24] So I ended up anyway, whatever. It doesn't matter. Doesn't matter what I ended up doing. Uh all right. Um, here's some questions.
+
+[37:32] Uh do you uh Han, do you do any guy? Do you guys do any work with uh nitrous and nitrogen? Anywhere in the restaurant. Yeah. Only CO2.
+
+[37:47] Yeah, well, CO2 is, you know, that's all you really well. If I do a thing again, I definitely want to get a nitrous tank again because now it's pretty easy to buy the adapters for the EC bottles. And uh what I really like, so when at existing conditions, when we were doing infusions with uh nitrous, we were doing them in like uh in small kegs in like uh one one and a half, three gallon corny kegs. But the problem with those kegs is is that they vent at a too low a pressure. So when you jack the pressure with the thing, they would shh and like you're like, ah, geez, oh my god, you know what I mean?
+
+[38:22] So and really like it is sucked, to be honest, right? But the good thing about it that way is that um all the recipes that I have for uh nitrous, like the the volume is very important in the whipper because the volume determines the pressure and the pressure changes the infusion. When you use a tank, you can just choose the pressure, right? So now in the past like three or four years, it's now pretty cheap to buy an adapter so that you can just screw a regular EC onto a tank and nitrous directly from a tank instead of using chargers, and then you can get the pressure the same every single time. So maybe convince, you know, maybe next time I talk to Austin, be like, oh awesome, I'll get some nitrous, man.
+
+[39:04] Come on, get some nitrous up in there. Anyway, um, a lot of confusion on nitrous versus nitrogen. So I think that's what this question is about from uh minwa. Uh they've read uh oh yeah, a while ago, it wasn't last podcast. I read uh the question they had about uh uh nitr nitro, but then ended up on a rant or a tear on about American gladiators.
+
+[39:26] So I'll not talk about American gladiators this time. Although Minois enjoyed watching American gladiators growing up. Uh is it possible to resubmit the question? The question was have we played around with the different properties of nitrogen versus um nitrous and you know, uh you know, nitrous laughing gas. Uh, I'm very interested in the application of nitrous.
+
+[39:47] While it's not as creamy uh as nitrogen uh in applications, it does offer a perception of sweetness to the drink without adding sugars. All right, I will say this. Um, first of all, I heard that nitrous is gonna get uh controlled in the UK. Do you guys hear about this? No.
+
+[40:04] Yeah, they're gonna make it a controlled substance and they're trying to figure out because a bunch of bartenders and coffee weasels are like, this sucks because we use it, right? Um, but there's a huge confusion in the hospitality community and at large about the term nitro. So, like nitro coffee versus nitro uh nitrous. And I really think that you should probably there's no good way to get around this because what are you going to call something that uses nitrogen? What are you going to call it?
+
+[40:35] Like people call it nitro, right? But nitro is has was nitrous before nitr nitrogen in cocktails was a thing, right? So like nitrous, uh nitrous oxide was used before nitrogen was used in the way it's currently being used in cocktails. They had beer gas, beer gas was nitrogen and CO2, and that was called beer gas, not nitro. Uh, but the idea of injecting nitrogen, I mean, Guinness has been doing it for years in the widget.
+
+[41:06] That is nitrogen, right? Uh, what then they what do they call it? They don't call it nitro, they just call it widget, right? I think so. Yeah.
+
+[41:12] Uh because they had a patent on it. Um, so a lot of the early people who were doing work with coffee were using nitrous oxide, which, as the person says, is sweet. So nitrous oxide is soluble. It's going to make bubbles. And then that if you have a lot of tiny nucleation sites, it will also create a constantly replenishing foam on top.
+
+[41:36] Okay, just like carbonation will, right? So it acts like carbonation, except it um, except it's not carbonated flavor. Instead, it's slightly sweet and on its own, rather kind of weirdly sweet, like like saccharin sweet, like fake sweet, right? You've tasted it, right, John? Yeah.
+
+[41:54] Yeah. So it has the advantage that it's very soluble, so it's also very useful for it's soluble in fats and alcohols as well. So it's useful for things like infusions and whipped cream, where you're using that solubility property in the fact that it changes to do infusions. Nitrogen, right, is used because it is not very soluble. So you put it under high pressure, and when it comes out, it forms micro bubbles very quickly.
+
+[42:19] And that's when you get that rolling Guinness head, because you get a bunch of tiny bubbles instantly, but then it doesn't keep making them because it's already out of solution because that's what it is. Uh so nitrogen is good uh when you want to pressurize something and spray it at high force through a nozzle to do like uh to mimic a shaking drink on a tap, nitrogen, uh, because you don't want residual carbonation. If you want that sweetness, but remember it's very fugitive, right? So you have to worry about being fugitive. My problem with using nitrous nitrus in cocktails is that uh the sweetness perception of the drink is gonna change radically over time as the gas evolves.
+
+[42:58] That's my issue with it. All right. Did I answer the question and not go on to an American gladiator thing? Was that covered and smothered? All right.
+
+[43:07] Okay. Uh all right. Do you ever do uh could you also do the alcoholic stuff? You ever do any hot buttered rum stuff, huh? You ever get you know do you do any hot uh I know you do like some hot drinks, but any any you ever do a hot butter rum?
+
+[43:20] Because I have a hot butter rum question. I don't I don't remember what the answer is because it came in a couple of weeks ago. I'm gonna read it, see what you say, see what you got. Uh so Ninja Soustaphone writes uh looking to replicate a hot buttered rum batter recipe, but make it vegan. Oh, this is a good because like uh I know you do a lot of work with uh with different uh milks.
+
+[43:40] So anyway, any recommendation for butter substitutes to do the job best. Currently using uh smuggler's Cove hot buttered rum recipe, which you know a lot of spices, black pepper, huh? Interesting. You put black pepper in your in your now, right? Interesting.
+
+[43:57] Uh, but it's basically cinnamon, nutmeg, black pepper, cloves, allspice, anise, uh, and then a whole boat ton of butter and sugar uh and some uh molasses and vanilla extract. Melt it, whip it up, and that's the stuff that they blop into the top of their of their of their rum. But what do you have any uh you have any recommendations for that for vegan? I mean, uh, I wouldn't know what to say other than use coconut oil. I mean, yeah, and like maybe add some add some solids from some other like I mean, I but I don't know.
+
+[44:27] Like, what do you think? Any good, any better ideas? I personally enjoyed um pumpkin seed milk very much because the flavor is um compared to like sesame or coconut, the flavor is slightly more neutral and has like enough bath and the texture is pretty like nice too, without any like additives. I mean, you have to obviously shake it once in a while, but yeah, pumpkin seed milk, highly recommend. So, where do you get good pumpkin seeds that don't taste rancid when they're done?
+
+[45:03] Because like pumpkin seeds, this is a good idea because we used to buy the oil because of the color is amazing and it tastes good, but it goes rancid so quickly that it's hard to keep around. Is it not the same problem when you're using the milk? Um, the shelf life is definitely slightly shorter than sesame. But yeah, what's worse? Rancid sesame or rancid pumpkin.
+
+[45:30] What do you think is worse? Rancid. They're both real bad. Rancid pumpkin. Rinsed walnut is the worst.
+
+[45:38] Oh, you're right. Oh my god, it's so bad. I think there's a whole group group of people who think they don't like walnuts because they've only had rancid walnuts. I mean, retoasting it helps a lot of times. Throwing it in the trash helps.
+
+[45:54] You know what I mean? Eating eating eating your walnuts faster helps, like like vacuum storing them and like not letting them get rancid. All that helps. Just like, you know, buy your walnuts in a small quantity and eat them. Do you think it's because we're not a walnut culture that everyone has their walnuts too long and when they finally taste them, they're like, oh, that's why I don't like walnuts?
+
+[46:14] And it's really not that. It's because we don't, we're not a walnut culture. Probably. I think walnuts are delicious. They are.
+
+[46:22] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But when they're rancid, oh my God. Because they don't just taste bad, they taste poisonous.
+
+[46:31] You know what I'm saying? Like uh, like there's a paint, there's a there's a solvent thing that happens in a rancid walnut that you're like, I've been poisoned. You know? Yeah. Speaking of poisoned, I was at Bagelfest this weekend and I had to eat so many bagels.
+
+[46:49] So many bagels. And because last year I insisted on only eating bagels, this year they're like, yeah, we're just doing blind tastings of of plain bagels for for you guys. These other guys got to go around and eat whatever, and I was only blind tasting Were you really hoping to get the blueberries? Is that where you're disappointed with the planes? Oh my god, blueberry bagel.
+
+[47:09] You're in Los Angeles. I assume that you're ground zero for blueberry bagels and all sorts of atrocities, all sorts of food atrocities. Is that true or no? Um bagels have been rising more lately, but yes. Yeah.
+
+[47:26] Um, blueberry bagel. Yeah, nightmare. Who's got the good bagels? Dave, I might understand you just did. Dave, you just did a tasting of plain bagels only.
+
+[47:35] How many plain bagels did you eat? Sixteen. Oh my God. I mean, not the whole one, but yeah, we had 16 different bagels and we had to go back and around and around and around. But what was interesting is that um of the ones that we were tasting, like a lot of like the super well-known, a couple of the super well-known people like put their stuff in, but a lot of them didn't this year.
+
+[47:56] Whereas last year, you know, we had uh uh, you know, like Essa and those those folks, but like, you know, w it's not to their advantage to be in a situation like that. They can only l Essa could only lose by being in a situation like this. You know what I mean? There's nothing for them to gain. And the crowd was a lot that the bagel crowd, the 16 that we tasted, was on whole less sweet than I thought it was going to be, which was nice.
+
+[48:23] There were some football-y situations. I think the average American right now wants a very like want a bagel crust outside, but they want like a they want like a squishy. What do you guys think of bagels that when you squish them, they s they don't pop back up? They're like too, you know what I'm saying? They gum when you push them.
+
+[48:42] I'm getting a shake of the head from John. No, getting a no from no. That's a no from babe. What about you, Joe? Where are you on the on the bagel that's like super fluffy?
+
+[48:50] Shouldn't you be able to tear a bagel and not have it be crushed into nothingness like it's freaking wonder bread? I agree. Yeah. Yeah. Uh so anyway, so good bagels, but really some different styles.
+
+[49:03] I'm doing different styles. Like uh remember Omo, we had we had Omo on. Olmo, he has gone so far in that style that the bagel I had that that he put out there, the outside, if you didn't know better, you'd say it was almost fried. That's how like crunchy and like blistered the outside is. It looks like, you know, like a fried takeout noodle, like not greasy because there's no oil in it, you know what I mean?
+
+[49:31] But like that level of just like and I was like, wow. And I know for a fact, because he's on the show, right? That he's doing steam in the conve esteam combi and then combi it. So he must have that convection cranked like a mother. All the time, yeah.
+
+[49:44] Like cranked. I've never had, I've never had anything quite like it. So to me, like that now is its own object, right? So when you like you have that next to like, you know, I had very traditional bagel from uh what they call Starship in Dallas. I was like, wow, it's traditional bagel, not New York.
+
+[50:01] I was like, good. You know what I mean? Anyway, enough of bagels. Let's get back to where we are. Uh so you think pumpkin, you think uh they should try.
+
+[50:08] Now the thing is, is there enough fat? How much fat do you think is in the pumpkin seed milk? Hmm, lower, definitely lower than other like normal nuts like almonds. It's a little slightly like leaner flavor and texture, but there is some fat in it. Right, because this traditional buttered rum recipe, right, aren't emulsified.
+
+[50:31] Like whenever whenever I was doing like like uh both hot and cold buttered rum or any sort of like fat in drink, I always emulsify it. I always add uh, you know, acacia and Xanthan, like Ticaloid powder to emulsify it so it's straight in. But traditionally it's not. So I think they're gonna want uh like a layer of fat creaming up on the top. You know what I mean?
+
+[50:56] Hmm. But I wouldn't, like I said, I wouldn't, unless you are very rich, I wouldn't recommend buying uh I mean I've never bought a pumpkin seed oil that wasn't already a little off. You know what I mean? Like, where do you get the good stuff? Milk, you make it.
+
+[51:13] You can buy a good seed. Yeah, well emulsifying pumpkin seeds oil to pumpkin seeds milk. Yeah, to get a higher fat content. But and think of how beautiful that would be. Think of how green that would be.
+
+[51:28] It'll look so nice. But um, yeah, I just don't know. I've never had a I mean getting good quality olive oil is slightly easier, so maybe emulsify with that. Because they both have kind of a green grassy flavor. I mean, depending on which olive oil, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[51:49] Don't uh don't trigger in case he in case he listens, don't trick you first of all. The guy that you're gonna do the Bansouri battle with, right? Flute versus Bansouri, he is an olive oil uh he's an olive oil explorer. What do you call him? Like a Shinado.
+
+[52:09] But he's not just an aficionado, he flies all over the world, finds producers, and then bottles their olive oil. What do you call it? I don't know, yeah. I don't know. Yeah, what do you call it?
+
+[52:19] Obsessed. He's like uh, yeah, he's like uh I don't know, like Audubon without the racism. You know what I mean? Like someone who travels the world and looks for something. I mean, he was a bad guy.
+
+[52:30] Autobahn was a terrible human being. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's awful. You know, pumpkin seed style rancid.
+
+[52:38] You know what I'm saying? Like bad dude. Anyway. Uh, okay. So uh I think we answered that question, right?
+
+[52:44] All right. Uh what do you I don't even know? I don't even know. Any of you guys mocha pot people? Anyone?
+
+[52:53] Joe? Anyone? No. Son of a gun. All right.
+
+[52:57] So I'm gonna put this out there in case someone on the on the Patreon or whatever. Dave Kleiman, two things. One, what's the best mocha pot and why? I don't know, man. But the problem with the uh aluminum ones is they they just get so crappy over time.
+
+[53:11] But I've never owned one of the stainless ones, so I don't know. What's the best way to prep coffee beans for it? I don't know. You know what? I just don't know.
+
+[53:17] We need to find a mocha specialist. You know who else we need to have on? We need to have on Turge, because I think more people need to talk to a Turkish coffee specialist, right? That stuff is delicious. Uh all right.
+
+[53:29] I was in coffee store in Thailand and I saw pressure tanks quarterly for liquid nitrogen. Is it safe like this? Uh it was for sale for about $25 a tank. It was being sold without instructions or safety equipment. What's the story here?
+
+[53:40] Absolutely. If it's a pressure tank, no. And I'm looking at what if these are the pictures that you sent, no. Do not buy that. Do not buy that.
+
+[53:51] No. Uh, yeah. So uh liquid nitrogen can't be stored in uh in tanks like that. Uh gaseous nitrogen can, but they need to be certified. If they have a cert on them, they're fine.
+
+[54:04] Uh, but that won't be doing what you want for LN. It's not like a brine mill. Anyway, Will Robinson writes in question I've been playing with whiskey high ball whiskey soda, and I really want to hear our thoughts on this problem. I think uh he mentioned doping in um uh vegetable glycerin at like sub 1% concentrations, you can go up to 2% to get the right mouthfeel as the Toki machines have. Has he given any further thoughts to this?
+
+[54:26] I always add glycerin to high balls because a token machine, if you taste Toki on its own, it's very high bodied because it's meant to withstand a lot of dilution in. I mean, Toki was designed specifically for high balls, right? Uh so whenever I use other whiskies or even that one, because the Japanese ratio for a high ball is very high water. I always add glycerin. But that's basically what I do.
+
+[54:50] Just add you yeah, you have any uh do you guys do any uh any of those whiskey highball things, Han? Oh yeah, we do use Toki for our high ball force carbonated, um, and there's also a little splash uh Pinot de Charant for like the fruity, the juiciness, and instead of water, we use coconut water. Hmm, which a little bit nutty and that gives uh we use some harmless brand. Yeah. Yeah, this is yeah, this is Austrian's recipe.
+
+[55:26] It tastes good, harmless. I've never done coconut and Japanese whiskey. I've done coconut and scotch. Yeah. It tastes good and you know, after a while it oxidizes.
+
+[55:38] So it kind of color brings out like pink-ish, like brown pink ish, which is pretty attractive. So you're pro that oxidation? Yeah, because some coconut waters do that and some don't. Like we had a couple of drinks at Booker and Dax back in the day where we were using fresh coconuts, which sucks. Sucks.
+
+[55:54] In New York, especially. Come on. So stupid. Why do we do that? And so like some of them would be pink and some of them wouldn't.
+
+[56:00] Weird, right? Yeah. Uh oh, hey, before we run out of time, because we are, uh, you want to talk about your uh company because you do uh you do RTD, um you do RTD um non-alcoholic cocktails, but you only sell them to restaurants, right? Yes. Um, so I have a company called Zero Proof.
+
+[56:23] It's uh foda alternative beverages, like sparkling beverages. Some of them are sweet, some of them are not sweet. The flavors are inspired by like Korean culture. And so, like and yeah, we yeah, we um source two restaurants because they pair well with food, and I want people to enjoy it with food. Well, also I'm sure, like, you know, look, I was on your website and it's very kind of ingredient-based.
+
+[56:52] Do you stabilize them? You probably don't pasteurize or stabilize them, so it probably would be a nightmare to sell it to regular people where you can't control what happens, right? Yeah, it's um pasteurized with um the sulfite. Right, right. So the shelf shelf light is slightly longer, and yeah.
+
+[57:10] Yeah, yeah. But what's the format? 187s or cans? It's um, it's a bottle. It's 187 yeah, yeah, 1870.
+
+[57:22] Yeah, it's a good format. I like a 187. That's what we used to use all the time, 187s. I hate bottling them. Do you like how much do you hate bottling carbonated 187s?
+
+[57:30] Because I hate it like a lot. Um, I learned to love it because that's the only choice. So do you just do you just kind of zone out when you're doing your like now? I am a machine that bottles things. Yeah, man, man, I hate that so much.
+
+[57:46] Yeah, just don's no nut and listen to cooking issues and oh yeah. Oh, that's quite nice. That's quite nice. Um, all right. So uh we have a question here.
+
+[57:54] Actually, you should probably tone in on this with your we already talked about glycerin a little bit, but Ashkash Bagash said, Hey all, I have a tincture question for people in California. We still got two minutes, sorry. Uh I have a buddy uh in California trying to make some tinctures, and it sounds like you can't buy high-proof alcohol there, nothing over 60%. Is anyone aware of any workarounds or alternative solutions? Well, the glycerin's not gonna be the same, but do you do you have a a source for high-proof alcohol when you're doing that kind of work or no?
+
+[58:20] I I did not have source of pie proof alcohol, but I mean I did night tincture with um like vodka or like high proof, you know, neutral spirits. Yeah, you know what's interesting is that like uh when you're doing any sort of tincture work, right? It's like the the flavor is so different depending on the proof uh on what your extraction is, right? So, like I say, I haven't done that much work with glycerin, but like the taste of a not just the strength, but the taste of like a water base versus a glycerin versus uh, you know, a 95% ethanol versus 40% ethanol. That's all pulling different ingredients out.
+
+[58:59] And so, you know, I don't know. It's an interesting it's an interesting thing. I didn't know that you couldn't get that stuff in California. Here's another one. Ready?
+
+[59:06] We got a couple seconds left. Zev writes in. You you'll you'll be good with this, uh Han. Question. I've been savoring the last of the California stone fruit season.
+
+[59:12] Just bought a bunch of white nectarines that were browning from the browning from the inside out, okay? When you cut into them, the centimeter so flesh under the skin is great, ripe, sweet, and normal colored in the flesh surrounding the stone is brown pulpy, mostly tasteless. I've never seen fruit ripen this way, so I assume it's some sort of disease or defect. Do you have any idea what causes it? Uh or like, you know, how to get around it.
+
+[59:32] Um I think um I think it's just you had a lot of water this season, right? I think it was very wet summer. Yeah, so like I think it's just I don't know, but I'm guessing it's something called split pits, which is a defect that happens when the fruit gets big too fast, uh, and then like you get a hollow thing around the seed, and then that part can get fungus and rot and get all nasty. Have you seen that this year with your with any of your fruit? I have seen it actually from like mangoes and avocados too, not just um peach.
+
+[1:00:05] Yeah, I mean, fruit doesn't want to get that big that fast. I mean, it's not a chicken. You know, I'm just messing a chicken doesn't want to get that big that fast either. It's just we forced it to. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[1:00:14] I mean, it's gross. Uh all right. So you want to tell them uh in the zero seconds we have left what you did with the kumquats in case someone wants to go make some Han style kumquats. Oh yeah. Um just take all the fresh kumquats from your friend's tree, um, cut it in half, seeded, and smothering the sugar so the juice melts the sugar and you have like kumquat juice syrup, and with the fruit part, um the skin, you can try it out.
+
+[1:00:40] Yeah. Now, uh, should you leave your friends with any kumquats on their tree, or should you take every last kumquat? Um, depends on is your friend Harold McGee. Yeah. Yes, I'm well known for I I stole all of his Kumquat tree uh kumquats and the tree got so mad it never bore again and then he moved.
+
+[1:01:00] So I'm a terrible human being. Han, thanks for coming on. Are you looking to increase your business in LA? Should people uh hit you up if they want to carry zero proof in their restaurants? Yes, you can find me at um Instagram handle at drink zero proof.
+
+[1:01:15] Super. Go to Cato Restaurant, check out the tasting menu. Oh, you know what? I didn't ask you, son of a goddamn. I mean, shoot.
+
+[1:01:20] I wanted to ask about tasting versus full drinks. All right, next time, cooking issues. Thank you.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of New York City, Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City. I already said that. Newstand Studios, uh joined as usual with uh John. Nah John Nahool, how you doing?
+
+[0:25] Doing great. Yeah. Yeah? Yeah, yeah. Are you though?
+
+[0:28] Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It's the start of the week. It's Monday, you know, my Monday, so.
+
+[0:31] It's your Monday? I like that. Whenever I'm in a store, I'm like, is today what is what day of the week is your today, right? I'm like, is it your Friday? Yeah.
+
+[0:40] Yeah. Because really Saturday is the new Saturday's the new Monday. I don't know. Saturday's might. All the days are the same.
+
+[0:47] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All the days are the same. Just the store hours change.
+
+[0:51] Yeah, exactly. Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels. How you doing? I'm doing well, man. Good to see you.
+
+[0:56] And yes, I am doing well. Yeah? Good. Really? Nice.
+
+[0:59] Exactly. That's what I was looking for. Really? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[1:01] Alright. Yeah. Alright, I appreciate it. Like anyone in New York City, you're like, are you doing well? And they're like, yeah.
+
+[1:06] You're like, really? Come on. What? Because in New York, what's the classic answer? What's going on?
+
+[1:11] How you doing? Busy. Busy. Busy. Busy.
+
+[1:14] Because if you're not busy, someone's like, What are you lazy? What are you stupid? If you're not busy, if you live in New York and you're not busy, even the idle rich are busy in New York. You know what I'm saying? Man, I would like to be the idle rich.
+
+[1:26] That would be nice. Yeah, the idle rich is the best kind of rich. Anyway. Joined in the upper, upper left-hand corner, Quinn. How you doing, Quinn?
+
+[1:39] Busy. You know what I like? I like uh, I like how so people know this, but like she who shall not be named, the computer that runs my phone, right? Can't pronounce anyone's name properly. And I'm the other person who can't pronounce anyone's name properly.
+
+[1:58] So uh whenever I would call John, I would say, hey, blah, call Gene the howl, because that's the only way she could pronounce it. And the only way that she can pronounce Quinn's name is call Quinn. Get this? Call Quinn Fusile. Fusile.
+
+[2:17] Yeah. Quinn, say it the proper way because I can't even think it the right way anymore because I only think it the way she thinks it. Fuchile. A fucile. Beautiful.
+
+[2:26] And uh heading further on down that uh left-hand coast, we got uh Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing? Good. Good. And of course, uh yeah, I I would have remembered he was there because I spoke to him beforehand.
+
+[2:41] Our good buddy Jackie Molecules. So uh you guys have anything interesting. We didn't really talk, we talked a little bit last week, but uh we didn't talk too much about what we're doing. I have some actual food updates that I forgot to bring up last week. But uh what do you guys what do you guys been doing?
+
+[2:54] I got some stuff. All right, hook me up. Well, uh this uh Sunday was my dad's birthday, and we ordered what was advertised as a circling pig. Okay. To celebrate.
+
+[3:10] By the way, I I I think I know where this is going. I'm gonna say it and see whether I was right. They always lie. They always just send you a not very big pig. Go ahead.
+
+[3:19] No. What? It was not suckling. It was like a teenage pig. That's what I'm saying.
+
+[3:25] They always send like just not a 200-pound pig. They're like, they're like, here's a medium-sized pig. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[3:31] No one ever sends a suckling pig. I've I've had this problem before. Yeah. So we had 53 pounds of pig. 55?
+
+[3:40] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know what the problem? Okay, tell me whether this was the problem with the pig you received.
+
+[3:44] That age pig is just like humans. Uh that's the wrong age. You know what I mean? It's like it's like uh just like humans? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[3:56] Like little, like it's the awkward stage. It's the junior high of pigs. You know what I mean? Like, if if you were gonna say what's the worst era to, you know, what's the worst, you know, time of human life, you would have to say No, no, yeah. I thought you were talking about like a taste comparison.
+
+[4:12] This is gonna be a good thing. Maybe also, yeah. I don't know, maybe also. I don't know. I'd have to ask Jack about that.
+
+[4:21] So I ate to a human restaurant. I didn't know my defense. But I was eating humans, so which one did you like best? Because I would want to know. I would want to know anyway.
+
+[4:33] Uh so yeah, so was it all of the wrong things? It was uh not as fat as a suckling pig, you know, not as much, you know. Was it how was it? Was it ended up being good or what? I mean, we ended up it was still good, but it was like, okay, is that gonna fit on our gas grill?
+
+[4:51] So we gotta chop it up anyways. Yeah. I want I'm like okay, I know Dave, your thing is like the cooking whole pig. It doesn't matter how like perfectly it's cooked, it's just an event. But I'm like, we've already got a phone.
+
+[5:05] Because it can't be done. Because it can't be done. That's why. Yeah. So I'm like, we're already gonna have to break it up.
+
+[5:12] Let's cut out the loin section, and then we could have a little more control. Yes. But I got overruled. Why? The only worst thing to do than to cook a whole pig is to cook a whole pig in the wrong position.
+
+[5:29] So that it's like all hunched up so that like nothing is cooked properly. Well, I mean, you know, I love a good grease fire. Yeah. Yeah. I love it.
+
+[5:43] Nothing better than a good grease fire. The skin was uh was sacrificed to the gods. Well, you know, uh according to what I know about sacrifice, you are supposed to give the best parts to the gods. And then you eat, you know, what's left over. And by the gods, I mean the priest eat that stuff.
+
+[6:05] So it's like, you know, they put it on the thing, and then basically the priests are eating that. You know what I'm saying? Like it's really like you're paying the priests off with that. I don't know if you know that. Oh, we know the no priests that I'll tell you that much.
+
+[6:18] Yeah. Yeah. It was still fine. It was good. We made some really nice bosses and some nice flatbreads.
+
+[6:25] Yeah. You know what? You know what? Next time. Oh, uh, there's a f I know that you're not a uh music person, but there's a famous Louis Primus song called Next Time, There Will Be No Next Time, that where Sam Butera, his uh one of his other horn players, is the guy who actually sings uh uh on that one.
+
+[6:42] So are you gonna do it next time or there will be no next time? Well, no, I think we're considering next time. Again, years and years ago, for my birthday, we did get a whole goat, and my sister-in-law's father built an iron cross, and we did the uh like L out the door, like fire roast. Oh man, I thought you were going in a whole different direction with the iron cross. I thought this was gonna be some creepy, creepy, creepy thing.
+
+[7:16] Like some sort of crucified devil goat. Because goats are already the devil. I mean, I like them and their products, but they are they are Satan's animal on Earth for sure. You know what I mean? Like if Satan had to choose one animal, it ain't the snake, it's a goat.
+
+[7:30] Just look at them. You know what I mean? Look, look at them. Plus they eat anything. I mean, the goats, no.
+
+[7:36] Creepy. And uh, but I will say this: uh, if you're gonna do this again and it comes and you're not gonna be able to cook it properly on one fire, but you have time, right? You can do just a super long circ on it. So we we used to we used to do that just a very, very, very long circuit. Um physical like circulation problem.
+
+[8:02] Someone goes to Target, buys a tub, and you stick the circulators in it and you circuit. I mean, uh like that would be circulator power. Uh as I have mentioned, this is something I have tested for you. You're keeping a a not a very high temperature, so you can't do like you you can you can only do low temperatures, like so a full-size Lexan, which you could fit this into, you can do it with one circulator as long as it's not metal. If it's plastic and you cover it and you let it come up to temperature and you overshoot the temperature by like 20, 30 degrees, and then drop it in, it'll settle out at about the right temperature.
+
+[8:39] So you have to do a similar calculation to what you would do, or you could do it in igloo, right? You have to do it at a similar uh the similar way to that you would calculate uh brew temperatures for like if you look up mash temperatures for for brewing. Yeah, for straight strike temperatures. Yeah. So you calculate that strike temperature to be just above what you want the cooking temperature of the thing to be.
+
+[8:59] Then you drop it, do it in the igloo, right? For a long, long time, like so much longer than you think, right? And then uh let it cool down, pull it, and then you can you can uh crisp it off. But you know, the the recommendations for uh circulator size are based on um you know their ability to comfortably do something and regulate within a tenth of a degree. If you don't care about tenth of a degree, if like one or two degrees is fine, and you can insulate it and go for a long time, you can do twice or three times as much liquid as they say you uh as they say you can.
+
+[9:36] So that's just an FYI. Done it many times, done it many, many times. Uh so like you know, like when I show up at my mom's house and she's like, you gotta cook this whole freaking prime rib, like a whole one. And I'm like, Ma, you don't have anything, you have nothing. So, like, you know, we're like, I was like, what where do you store your shoes in the attic?
+
+[9:55] And so, like, you know, you just go get whatever she's storing her shoes in in the attic and you cook it in that. You just make it work. You know what I mean? If you have time, if you have time, because while the gods may enjoy the skin, you would have enjoyed it more. Oh my god.
+
+[10:11] That talked to you about the delicious when I was in Germany, the delicious shinken hocks that I had. No. Oh my god. So I went to, I forget the name of the place, but uh we went to um, I was in Berlin, and most of the nights, you know, I was eating with uh the Kampari crew, but uh you went out with the owner of uh Mr. Susan there and Don Lee, and I forgot I forgot the name of the place, but it's like you know it was known for their for their their Schinkenhocks or you know, their Schweinhawks, whatever you want to call it.
+
+[10:40] And it's just this like pork shank, and they just they they they slow cook the hell out of it. Some people braise it, some people slow cook the hell of it, and then you either like roast the hell out of it or or deep fry it. I think it's almost deep fried. It was like, and they're like, I'm gonna so it's a kilo of like pork shank knuckle that comes out and it's just all the crispy skin and some and some cooked, you know, sauerkraut with it. I was just like, oh my god, oh my god, so good.
+
+[11:10] Yeah, it sounds delicious. That skin was so good. And they had run out when I showed up. They had run out and they were like, uh, they were like, Yeah, we're out. I'm like, what are you talking about?
+
+[11:21] They're like, Yeah, it's our most popular thing. I'm like, then why are you still open? You should be like Franklin Barbecue, and when you're done with it, you close the store. And I he I was like, where else can I get it? I was like, I came, I walked an hour and a half to get here, and this is all I want.
+
+[11:35] You know what I mean? So like uh they tried to send me to a different place, and he's like, Yeah, but it's not very good there. He's like, he's like, I didn't tell the other people, but if you come back in 45 minutes, we'll have more. And so we did. You know what I mean?
+
+[11:49] Nice, yeah. And it was so good. So good. Uh well, speaking of barbecue, how's your barbecue down in Texas? Good.
+
+[11:55] Yeah, I was just in Austin, and you know, I didn't go to Franklin, obviously, because I am standing no line. And we're with a group, you know how like when you're with a group and like two of the people in the group are like are willing to be ridiculous for food? Yeah, and two aren't. It's better to not force those people to go in. Yeah.
+
+[12:13] You know what I mean? Yeah. But I mean, the place you went to was still. Oh, delicious. Yeah.
+
+[12:17] Delicious. In fact, I so I I take it as an opportunity to not go to the one that everyone's standing in in line for, right? Yeah, and what's the name of the place that came before you? Oh, so I went to uh KG Barbecue, which is still a uh it's I guess still considered a truck because it's outside of like a brew house. But the the chef is his name is uh I didn't meet him, is uh Karim Al Gayesh.
+
+[12:39] And so it's he wanted to start a he's from Cairo. Yep. And he took a trip like uh, you know, a long time ago to to the United States and was like, oh, I love this Texas barbecue. I love this. Goes back to Cairo and is like, there is nothing.
+
+[12:54] There's nothing. So he keeps on trying to like, you know, figure out a way to do it in Cairo, then takes a trip back to Austin to like learn more like you know, from people there, and eventually just opens up a food truck in Austin, uh serving, and it's like uh it's definitely Texas barbecue, you know, brisket, like the sausages, all that stuff. Uh, but like with a little like Egyptian twist, like some some some sitar on it, like his potato salad has beets in it. So a lot of people asked what was up. They thought that they hit the potato salad because I posted on the Instagram.
+
+[13:24] They thought the potato salad was something else. So I don't know how many people when I told them there was beets in the potato salad, we're like, I don't know. Because I'm also that way. You know Nastasi and I. Did I tell you what?
+
+[13:34] Hey Stas, you want to be you want to be grossed out? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So for all everybody knows that the everybody, it is known that the smell that Nastasi and I are repulsed by in beets is uh Jasmin, which is the chemical that gives it that dirt smell. It's also the the chemical in dirt catfish and dirty tasting tilapia.
+
+[13:59] Although tilapia is pretty much clean now. It's pretty neutral these days. You know what I mean? Uh right. It's also the smell of like fresh earth.
+
+[14:07] And so the the Roca brothers, right? You know, the early, early on, like 2004 or whatever, one of their famous dishes when they first got a rotary evaporator was they would go scoop up dirt from outside the restaurant, not in the parking lot, and they would throw it into their rotary evaporator and they would get that Jasmine smell, which is caused by a bacteria in the earth. They make it when it's wet, right? Which is why that's what that smells like. And then they would put that dirt on oysters, and that was their surfing turf.
+
+[14:35] Do you get it? Do you get it? Anyway, you get the joke? Anyway, but it was a super famous dish. It was a super, super famous dish.
+
+[14:43] And when I saw them do that at Madrid Fusion and 04 or 05, whatever it was, I was like, oh man, these guys, they're the they're the best. They're the best. That's also when they pulled out the smoking gun for the first time. Although I hear they nicked that idea from someone maybe in Belgium or Netherlands or something like that. So they repurposed a pothead.
+
+[15:01] So it used to be that people, I don't know if you know this, but people used to smoke marijuana cigarettes and they would smoke marijuana in little pipes. They didn't have like these vape things. People actually used to have to pull out a lighter and light the marijuana on fire to consume it. You know what I mean? Back in the day.
+
+[15:17] And so, but you know, when I was a kid, like potheads were known for being lazy, right? Not lazy, but like they, you know, they're a high. They were super high, right? So someone had taken these uh, so they they used to sell these little vacuum cleaners for keyboards. Because I don't know if you know this, but like people who work on computers all day, we're you know, some finicky weirdos, and so they're like, and I want to use a regular vacuum cleaner.
+
+[15:41] So they would make these little miniature battery powered vacuum cleaners to clean out your keyboards, right? And so some like super smart like high out of their mind, like pothead was like, What if I put the battery in upside down? This thing becomes a power pipe. And so that's what they did, right? They screwed a bowl into the top of the into the you know, vent and they turned the vacuum backwards and it was a power pipe for them to smoke, and then chefs took it, and that's where the smoking gun comes from.
+
+[16:07] Brilliant potheads. Also the the volcano vaporizer, which Grand Aikett's made famous in food at Alinea Pothead. Uh any hoolie who. So I was like, I was like, oh, I don't really like dirty martinis. I'm just gonna put that out there, right?
+
+[16:21] I think it's fine if you like them. If do you like them? Are you I do, yes. Yeah, yeah. Joe, dirty martini?
+
+[16:26] Yes, yeah, yeah, Jack. No from me. No, and I know no from Stash. She's not a martini head, right? Yeah.
+
+[16:34] Yeah, I'm not either. I mean, I I'll I'll consume them, but what about Quick Queen? What about you? Martini person? Um, not a dirty martini, but like a regular martini, sure.
+
+[16:43] Yeah. So out of disrespect for the dirty martini, I want to just make the dirt martini. So I was like, I could just I could I could like scrape my rotary evaporator out of uh out of storage and get everyone in my family super mad at me for taking up my entire house with it, or I could just buy Jasmine. So I just have Jasmine sitting at the house, and I just need some time so I can make my dirt martini. I'm just gonna put a couple of drops of dirt stink into the martini and make my dirt martini.
+
+[17:11] And I still am wondering, what do you guys think? Olive in the dirt martini or or lemon twist in the dirt martini? No, a rock. Yeah, yeah, yeah. An actual rock.
+
+[17:23] All right. All right. But I need, but I need some sort of other flavor compound in it. No, just dirt. They just dirt.
+
+[17:30] My other flavor is martini. Yeah, I guess. Well, it's a moss or a lichen. Oh, huh. I wish I had stolen some epiphytes when I was in Austin, but uh, you know, complete with like all forms of little like biting mites.
+
+[17:45] Uh but triggers? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh I don't know. So no one, no one thinks a lemon or an island, everyone thinks it should be some alternative. I mean, the rocks where I live are filthy.
+
+[17:57] Every by the way, if you Well, you're wash them. Okay. If you come to our fine city and you sit on the sidewalk, be aware that the sidewalk is 25% dog pee, 25% rat pee, like bird poop and vomit. Like that's what our sidewalks are. So don't sit on them.
+
+[18:20] Like, don't sit on our sidewalks and go. Yeah, yeah. Like, just don't sit on our sidewalks. If you come into our subway system, do not sit on our sidewalks or stairwells unless you consider your whole body disposable. Like, it's just not, you know what I'm saying?
+
+[18:38] When you see that? So gross. Okay. So gross. I regularly take, so if you're a dog person, like in in our buildings, in like down where I live in the lower east side, there's like uh fences, and I see like runners stretching against the fence.
+
+[18:51] I'm like, that is a urinal. You are stretching in a urinal. You might as well go into a public restroom and just start stretching against the urinal. You know what I mean? Anyway, uh it's gross.
+
+[19:04] It's just gross. Uh all right. Um, yes, so that barbecue is. I also went to the Austin Farmers Market, which was fun. I had barbecue there as well.
+
+[19:14] Uh that was uh Mum Foods. And Mum Foods, they I think they're about to get a brick and mortar. They just got a brick and mortar. They've just been doing uh like Texas style uh barbecue at the farmer's market, which is in the Mueller neighborhood, rather new neighborhoods where the airport used to be. And that was also delicious.
+
+[19:30] And the chef there, or the owner, uh spent a bunch of time in Queens. So they also do pastrami. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, so it's like you know, it's like all the briskets. So it's like pastrami and uh and and brisket, and their sausage is made from brisket trimmings, and their sausage is sick.
+
+[19:45] So if you go to there, if you if you go stop by their farmer's market there on uh on a, I think it was a Sunday, yeah. That the sausage is the answer. But the guy next to me, he's ordering pastrami, right? And he asked for the lean. And but so my friend Jorin, like and I were going, we were the two people who were food, you know, people were good.
+
+[20:03] So we're going there, and we we both look over at the guy. We're like, what? You know what I mean? Like, what? Yeah, that doesn't make sense.
+
+[20:10] Why would you do that? Why would you do that to yourself? That's what you accept, because you in order to get to the fat you need like the the animal has someone, so in order to be sustainable, you're like, fine, I'll take some of the lean. But it turns out there's people who want the lean. Who are these people?
+
+[20:25] Oh, I'll give you another one. So, like, you know, obviously we can't check baggages with liquids. I mean, we can check baggages with liquids, but you know, whatever. We don't live there, we don't have a kitchen, we're at a wedding, we're headed out. So there's a huge long line out out the farmers, out of the indoor section of the farmer's market.
+
+[20:41] And we were like, is this line to get in? And a guy in the line's like, no, this line is for eggs. And so I go, Oh, we don't need eggs. And the because it's like the super fancy like farmers' eggs down there. And some lady line goes, you most certainly do.
+
+[20:58] I was like, uh, I was like, all right, lady. Alright, lady. I got you. Uh so the other thing uh I saw there in because this we didn't go get in our farmer's market. Oh, fresh pecans, locally grown pecans.
+
+[21:10] So I brought some of the roasted, semi-salted ones for you to try. So I asked the the gentleman who sold them to me. I was like, uh, what uh variety are these? And I got some variety FOMO. Those he the ones he got me were called desirable.
+
+[21:25] And I said, Are they desirable? He's like, Yes, they are very good. Some people do not think they are the best. They're not grown as much. They used to be one of the most common varieties, they're not as grown anymore because they're susceptible to certain forms of scab and the nut quality deteriorates if they have scab.
+
+[21:38] But now I want to try the Elliott variety. So if anyone knows of the Elliott, because get this, the Elliott variety of pecan has a hickory nut flavor. So I would love it. But that's a delicious pecan, am I right? Fresh, delicious pecan.
+
+[21:51] Very good. That's a very good pecan. Comes by its name desirable honestly. And this was from the Yegwa Creek Farms pecan orchard in Elgin, Texas. Yeah, that's really delicious.
+
+[22:01] That's a good pecan. Yeah. Great texture. Yeah, really good. Well, it's because they're they're big jumbo mothers, and they're like, you know, freshly shucked and roasted.
+
+[22:12] He roasts when when he roasts them, he roasts them and then tosses them, and this is what he says is a secret, and he sells this stuff. He tosses them in a little bit of pecan oil as they're roasting so that then the salt sticks to the pecan oil. So it's all pecan. There's no sort of like like BS oil he's adding to the situation. And then he had a bunch of flavored pecans.
+
+[22:33] I didn't care though. I mean, I care. Like if I if I lived there, I would eventually try to see whether his flavored pecans were any good. But I was like, give me the pecanias pecan. Yeah.
+
+[22:44] And this was the answer. Yeah. Yeah. I love the pecan. Yeah.
+
+[22:48] Very good. I know most of the people in my family are not pecan people. And it's kind of disappointing. It really is sad. Yeah.
+
+[22:55] It's a delicious nut. Yeah. Anyway. It is, yeah. A lot of food tragedies in your house.
+
+[23:01] I know. Yeah. I know. Uh, anyway. Uh all right.
+
+[23:05] And the week before that, I went to uh Miami. I didn't get to talk about the food in Miami. But before I do that, what about you, uh, Stas and Jack? You guys got any uh food uh food McGillas? For any LA listeners, it was very, very good.
+
+[23:26] They have a really big sake list. Um it kind of felt like being in Tokyo. So that's my restaurant wreck for the week. Have you have you become like you're like you have only like Tokyo feelings now? And so you're like, no, no, no, I'm gonna go get okay.
+
+[23:39] Is that you now? Yeah, no, no, no, no. It's just the first time since coming home. I mean, as soon as I came home, it was like Italian food and wine all week, you know. Um somebody shipped this guy a bottle of barefoot molow.
+
+[23:51] Someone needs to ship you some barefoot merlot. Get you back on America, baby. Ugh, the most American. Um well, this restaurant had Japanese lakas with none other than dry aged Orican salmon on them. And uh it was damn good.
+
+[24:06] Alright. Alright. I again uh that's the one uh FOMO that I have is that I couldn't go to the Oricang salmon event and try what's the name of their giant their giant, giant um Taihee salmon. Yeah. Uh all right.
+
+[24:22] Um, okay. So uh oh, back to Cuba. What about you, Stas? Nothing? You're hiding there.
+
+[24:29] No. Um, no, I take people out to the most generic uh old school LA places with shitty with crabby burgers. No, come on. You know what? You're you're so full of garb you're so full of garbage.
+
+[24:41] You're so full of garbage. Give me talk about the pepper steak. Talk about the pepper steak. You you have all of these things that you love and you won't talk about them ever. You're so stingy.
+
+[24:51] You're so stingy. Talk about the pepper steak. Yeah, talk about the freaking pepper steak. We're gonna go back to Flappers on Sunday and we're gonna go to the pepper steak place. So what is the name of the Freegan Pepper?
+
+[25:03] What is it? I I really don't I don't know. I don't know. I don't it's like a hole in the wall. I I I don't know if it has a name.
+
+[25:10] Pepper steak place. Oh jeez. But we'll report back on Tuesday. So is I say she won't say this, but like apparently her parents, right, go to places for decades and don't know the name of the place. Right.
+
+[25:29] So like Nastasia took us to like her favorite. Uh did we talk about this already? Or she takes uh Jack and I to her favorite, or was it Dak? Did you go with me? Or did or did Harold go with us?
+
+[25:41] Or did all four of us go? Which one? To the seafood place. Oh, oh yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[25:48] All four of us went, right? Yeah. So uh so she takes us to this place that she's been going. What's the name of the place? No idea.
+
+[25:56] She won't know. That's so funny. I thought she knew though. It's some it's some fish place on PCA. Well that that narrows it down because there's only one fish restaurant on the entire Pacific Coast Island.
+
+[26:12] Do you remember Jack? No, I don't I don't remember. It's like you know where to pull off, you know. So you pull off uh right after the gas station before Malibu. How about that?
+
+[26:25] Jesus. Okay. That's pretty specific. Okay, okay. Um just let me know when you want me to hang up.
+
+[26:29] Yeah. So anywho. So like she's literally been going to this place since she was a kid. Since she was a kid. Little girl, right?
+
+[26:45] And so then her parents come to the to uh Thunderbolt LA when we're doing our event, and she remembers the name for the 20 minutes between when we go there and when we're at Thunderbolt LA, and says to her dad, we went to blah, you know that place we always used to go? Dad, blank look on his face. I'd never heard of that place in my life. Never heard, never heard. And f and so like I'm like, you know what?
+
+[27:12] Nastasi is freaking liar. Because I'm assuming her dad would know. And she's like, no, my whole family, like it's like, you know how Nastas is like, you know how you're face blind and people blind? Like I like my whole family is place blind. We don't care.
+
+[27:23] We don't know. But somehow they find their way back to it. So can you at least describe this pep what is a pepper steak sandwich? Um I think it's like beef that's um sautade and pepper, and it's in a sandwich with uh peppers, like a like bell peppers. Okay, but and it's so freaking good.
+
+[27:52] Is it pressed? No, no, no, no. Like a sub like a sub sandwich uh thing, like you know, but like with like this long sauteed beef and peppers and pepper. Okay. I'd love to be a fly on the wall while going to the restaurant trying to remember the directions.
+
+[28:12] It's over here, it's over here. No, it's in this strip mall. No, no, no. We we are like, we get like I could get there right now without the internal compass or like the pepper stick. Yeah.
+
+[28:23] We only go, my family only goes to the same like nine places in LA for years. And we don't know the names of most of them. Because they're not like they're like, you know, literal holes in walls. No, I mean, no, no, no. No, no.
+
+[28:42] I went to it. This was a freestanding building. Okay, then what was the name, Dave? I don't know because like this is but like I have I went there once. You've been going since you were like a little girl, and it's not a literal hole in the wall, it's a building on the beach.
+
+[28:58] Although that would be amazing. If you just had a wall on the beach with like a freaking hole in it, you're like, here's the restaurant. Here it is. Enjoy. It's like fish shop.
+
+[29:09] And two people and freaking Harold McGee and I believe Jack got the swordfish. And I was like, okay. You didn't? He got the swordfish at least. And I was like, I can't I don't order swordfish because I know it's gonna be dry uh uh uh uh I as a bone, you know what I mean?
+
+[29:25] And but it wasn't apparently, it was good, apparently. I don't know. It's also unsustainable. Why? Oh, Mr.
+
+[29:33] Whale eater telling me not unsustainable, unsustainable foods. Yeah, you're never gonna let that one down, my friend. But I didn't know, but I didn't know. I'm happy to own that. All right, all right.
+
+[29:47] Uh okay, so back to uh Miami. So uh I tried to find like the best Cuban sandwich there, but in fact, it turns out that what people said was the best Cuban sandwich, I didn't think was any better than the ones that are made in uh, you know, up in uh Morningside Heights uh and north. Well, I guess they're not Morning Side Heights anymore, that neighborhood is so different, but like, you know, above that uh in Washington Heights. The best Cubans I've had in my in my life are from up there. Still, I need to go to Tampa.
+
+[30:15] I need to go to Tampa. But I first I finally had the uh the Cuban fritas, their their burger. And I have to say, I went to, we went to several uh Jack Shram and I, we were there doing a gig and um and we went to several places, and El Mago de las Fritas was which I guess translates loosely to the wizard of the fritas, was so on point. So on point. The 80-something, even though I think his daughter runs it now, the 80-something year old original wizard was sitting like you know, with his with his whites on, like like hunched over, like at the counter.
+
+[30:52] And I think he might have actually made our fritus because I did see him get up when our order was made and like like kind of hobble over to where the flat top was. And man, it's good. So uh what they the way that they this so you look it up on the internet, and a lot of people say that people put a mixture of pork and beef, like a chorizo into the into the patty. But I've watched them make it on YouTube a bunch of times, and I looked at a bunch of people who do the recipes, and apparently, while some people may do that, that's not the way the wizard does it. The wizard puts chorizo like spices into the meat, but no salt, right?
+
+[31:31] So it's not getting bound up and destroyed. So it's salt in a spice mix that ruins the texture, interior texture of of a burger meat because it it causes it to become like a sausage, which is not a burger anymore. It's a sausage patty, right? So there's no salt in there. So that what they did was they they put the chorizo like spices into it, and then they put it on a flat top with onions, they smash it down, then I think they might salt it too at that point.
+
+[32:02] Then they spray a sauce over the top of it onto the flat top. So this bubbling and stuff like that. Then they flip it, right? And it's still got all the sauce and stuff like that. Then they toast the bun, the Cuban roll bun on the flat top, and then wipe up the extra sauce from the flat top onto the bun.
+
+[32:22] And then the real service genius is they take their crispy fried potatoes are not matchstick fries. This is a lie. They are basically hash brown pieces or like latka pieces that are fried hard, right? So that they're crispy, right? So it's like, it's like they're very tiny.
+
+[32:40] You know what I mean? Like for any of you who've had like Al Cap, like those like Al Cap, like weird little potato sticks, they're thinner than that, right? They're very thin, like hash brown things. And those are mounded up on it. And then if you want the super money, the super money business, egg on top, caballo style, like super super money.
+
+[32:58] And then they serve it with a with the two sauces. One's an incredibly hot sauce that is some form of scotch bonnet habanero like that variety of pepper sauce, and what they call, I swear to God, bougie sauce. Bougie sauce, which is some lightly pink, lightly mayonnaise, lightly ranchy, but delicious kind of thing. And so the combo of those two things on the fritas, and the ones at El Mago were incredibly juicy and delicious, and unfortunately, those are the ones I had first. So it's always bad when the best one you have is the first one.
+
+[33:34] You know what I mean? And then the rest were good, but not El Mago de las Fritas. Like, you know, I've had I've had other, you know, very good honorific people, you know, honorific titles attached to people's fritas, but the the wizard. Long live the wizard. Um, the other thing we did, old school Miami is uh Joe Stone Crab.
+
+[33:55] And would love to try that. Oh my God. You know what you need to do? You need to try it with somebody else's money. Yeah.
+
+[34:04] Yeah. So that's what I did. I tried it with somebody else's money. So I had their key lime pie, which is apparently in Miami. I know it's not the keys, but in Miami, it's the key lime pie of note.
+
+[34:13] It was very good. You're gonna say, you're gonna you're gonna give me a little face, ready? The graham cracker crust was double thick. Huh? Right.
+
+[34:24] But not hard. Not hard. So you know how a graham cracker crust, especially on a chilled pie, can get very hard. Their graham cracker crust, I don't know what they do, but even though it was double thick, when I saw it, I was like, oh man, uh the pie itself is thicker than you would make it. So it's everything's like double.
+
+[34:42] So it's like you've shrunk to a small boy again. And then like, you know, right. But when you put your fork through it, it cuts and and breaks apart nicely in the mouth. It's not like eating like, you know, slate slabs of of graham cracker crust. Yeah.
+
+[34:57] I don't go a little more acidic, but it was good. But here's something weird. Stone crab season had just opened up again. So they had like all they didn't have the collarsal size, but they had up to jumbo. So we got, I think we got large.
+
+[35:08] Because I asked him, I was like, is the flavor any different? He's like, no, the flavor's not different. So I was like, fine. But he says the flavor does change with water temperature, or the the crab does change with water temperature, and it was the opposite of what I thought. They prefer their crabs from warmer uh when the water's a little bit warmer.
+
+[35:24] He says they get better yield out of them and they're easier to shuck. And I have no idea whether that's true or false, but it goes exactly the opposite of everything I know about lobsters, let's say. I don't know a lot about crab flavor and where it comes from, but like it was exactly the opposite of what I would have uh assumed. Anyway, uh Joe Stone crab, delicious. And they they break it so it's super easy, and just the the claw.
+
+[35:47] Do you know how they harvest those things to stone crabs? It's actually sustainable. You know about this? Yeah. Well, it's one claw per back.
+
+[35:54] They throw it back in. Imagine. And and like, I wonder how many crabs they're like, oh, again. You know what I mean? Because he says it take I forget he told me how many years it takes for the claw to grow back, but it's not like fast.
+
+[36:09] So there's all these crabs in Florida who are like, you know, running around with the one claw, you know what I mean? Yeah. And then like uh, you know, he's like, finally, clack, clack, clack, clack, clack, clack, clack, clack, clack. Whoop, boop, oh you know what I mean? But I think it's kind of cool.
+
+[36:25] Yeah. No, it is. I wonder if there's anyone who's not willing to consume animal products because animals get uh killed who will eat stone crab. I wonder if there's anyone on earth like that because it's not killed. Wait, say that again.
+
+[36:40] I said, I wonder if there's anyone who doesn't consume meat because the animals are killed, but we'll consume in other words, most people are anti-exploitation in general. So once they go like uh to that level, it's like no honey, no nothing. You know what I mean? So it's like, I wonder if there's anyone where stone crab is on the okay side of their line, but for instance, like blue crab isn't because you or like soft shell crabs, which I didn't have this year. Oh my god, I love social crabs.
+
+[37:06] I would guess if you are okay eating eggs, there's a similar argument to be made that the one claw is like an egg, and that you're still taking something from an animal. Well that they can survive. I would say there's a better argument for the stone crab than for an egg, because you know, like look, if you're a vegetarian but you eat eggs and milk, I shouldn't even say this. I've kind of vowed I would never say this, right? Like the the hens aren't making it out of that alive.
+
+[37:37] Like as soon as they start, as soon as they stop laying, they're chummed up. You know what I mean? Like, so it's not like it's not like you get to get out of chicken murder by by just eating the eggs, right? You they're not murdered or like the baby cows. Or like wool.
+
+[37:53] If you uh yeah, milk baby cows. And plus, as soon as they stop giving milk, they get chummed up. You know what I mean? Or like uh even, you know, wool. I you know, it's not like it's not like they, you know, they get to live out their days.
+
+[38:07] You know what I mean? Anyway, it's uh there's uh although I guess I don't know how long wool sheep are I don't know what causes a wool sheep to get cold. I don't know how old they are, whether they're allowed to I don't know whether your wool stays the same quality. I know my wool's not staying the same quality my whole life, so I don't know. I'm sure it's the same with a sheep.
+
+[38:28] So I don't know. But you know, that's the that's the see. You you don't get or you don't get around the animal slaughter just by not eating the dead body. You know, I guess it is like attenuated slightly. Yes, that is true.
+
+[38:43] Um all right. Um so I guess that's all the all the things I need to get through on uh on what I've eaten in the past couple of weeks. Let's get oh by the way, upcoming the studio uh November 14th, we have Robert Simonson about his new cocktail, how is it cocktail encyclopedia? Yeah. Yeah, cocktail encyclopedia.
+
+[39:01] Uh and uh we're gonna restart. Have we already started the Edwards Age Meat uh like uh cooking issues uh code again for the Patreon folks? I posted that a little while ago. I'll see if it's still valid. Yeah.
+
+[39:14] Um people should join Patreon.com slash cooking issues, because very soon we should have a promo code for Robert Simonson's book. Yeah. And uh, you know, we occasionally do live streams and other stuff. And if you're on the Patreon and you want us to do something, uh just ask, and we will try to uh accommodate accommodate you. You'd also be able to call in live questions at 917-410-1507.
+
+[39:41] That's 917-410-1507. Uh all right. Oh yeah. Wow. Because I remember to do the finally remembered.
+
+[39:58] Let me let me modify what Quinn just said. If you like the show, consider giving this a review of five stars. They're 40 minutes into this. No, bitterly. No, no, no.
+
+[40:08] That's the thing. They're gonna be like, no, well, yeah, I wasn't gonna review it. I wasn't gonna give it its two star review, but now that they asked, spike spite, uh, yeah, it's actually it's actually helpful for us. So, you know, and costs you nothing except your time, which is of course valuable. We appreciate your time, people.
+
+[40:26] Uh all right. Uh Simon says, when you're making oh my God, I just said Simon says. Simon wrote in, how about that? Uh a while ago. Uh, when you're making your own flour for bread, what's the best way to navigate the different ways of classifying flours used in different countries?
+
+[40:40] For example, how would you go about making a high protein Italian-style double zero flour for use in making Italian breads or pizza? All right. Um, all right, Simon, I'm not gonna give you the answer you want here. What I'm gonna say is that I don't think you're gonna be able to make a classic double zero flour at home with a home mill, right? I think the better way to think about it is think about what your mill can make and then make breads that your mill is good at making, right?
+
+[41:14] So every country has different ways of rating their flowers, and they're all focusing on different things. So like French and German flowers, they talk about ash, right? So the those specifications are ash. So like German flour is milligrams of ash per 100 grams, uh like subtracting out the all of the the water, right? So you can't look at a you can't look at an American at the ash rating of an American flour and uh like a German or a French one and uh like directly correlate between them, right?
+
+[41:47] And the reason why ash is important is the higher the ash number, the closer it is to, you know, two, right? Anything over like 1.5, 1.6 uh grams per per 100 grams means that it's fundamentally whole wheat because all of the ash, most of the ash is in the outside of the uh of the wheat, right? So the lower the ash number, the closer you are to just having the central end endosperm of the of the wheat. Double zero, on the other hand, uh, is more, I think, a uh grading of um they they you can correlate to how much what the extraction is, right? So the extraction is how much of the endos how much of the outside and the outside part of the endosperm, which is different from the inside is there.
+
+[42:30] But then it's also a grind level like how finely it's ground. And there's only so fine you can grind it on a on a home grinder, right? Um so I mean you could I'm sure there's ways around it if you were a zillionaire you could just buy a test mill like uh Bukey I think and a couple other people make uh test it's not bukey maybe it's probably I forget someone makes a test flour mill which is really good so if you have like 50 60 grand lying around you could buy a roller mill and then you can make all of the actual flour grains but I think it's very difficult to do at home. So I would buy the flour with the correct buy the wheat with the correct percentage I would look at it um you can try to do multiple grind systems to try to just get the outside and sift it but it's gonna be very difficult unless you're willing to do midling separation and a lot of sifting to get the flour to mimic uh that particular flour is that an okay okay answer all right I mean I I would also say in my experience with like pizza in particular obviously the more you refine the flour the less distinct it's gonna be right so I always find it more interesting to like have a base of a store bought flour like that you need certain properties for and then just like augment with a flavorful flour that is more moderately sifted or refined. I don't know.
+
+[43:52] That's what everyone does. I don't I don't know. I I I can't get behind that, Quinn. Like I like why not? Because it's I think it's BS.
+
+[43:59] You know what I mean? It's like it's like you make a flower, then I like making something out of that flower. Like create a flower, know its properties, right? So like I don't like a compromise. I'm like, well, it's a compromise between this flower and this other thing.
+
+[44:20] Because there's many applications where whether you're making everything or buying everything, you want to combine flowers to achieve a certain property. Right, but you're but in other words, like I you're not getting the you're not really getting the flavor of a flower by adding like 10, 20% of it, right? But you are well, it depends on the flower, I guess, but then it and and what you're doing with it, but you're not really getting the flavor of that flower. You can maybe change something a a little bit. And if and if what you're saying is all of the properties except for like some sort of flavor of wheat of that flower are garbage, and what you really want are all because what I'm hearing from you really is that I really want like the technical properties of this one flower and the flavor properties of this other flower.
+
+[45:05] So you're diluting the technical properties of one and diluting the flavor properties of the other. So to me, that's not really a compromise that I enjoy. I would prefer a compromise where where you're like, this has this technical property and this other one has a different technical property. So you're adding two things for technical properties, or you're taking two things with good flavor and you're adding them together to get a combined flavor that you like. But if you're like flavor of this garbage, but technical properties good, and technical properties of this garbage, the flavor good.
+
+[45:34] The refined flowers are pr generally pretty neutral. And I would say my experimentation with some bread and some people, some pizza, I like the flavor better at a like a midpoint. Like sometimes I do 20% fresh flour, 30%, 40%, and I actually prefer the 30% over the 40%. See, what I prefer is to tweak the flour that I'm making to be exactly what I want it to be from both a flavor and a technical standpoint. But the way that I'm doing that is not by trying to mimic a flour that I can't produce.
+
+[46:17] To me, the goal is what can I make that has the has the end result properties in the in the bread or the pizza or whatever. What can I make that has those properties, right? But is itself and not like something else, you know, entirely. So and so mainly it's by adjusting the wheats that you use, right? So you choose a wheat that has the properties that you like and the flavors that you like, and then how much you like how finely you grind it, although it's very hard to do at home, and then how you sift it, how much you sift it, how aggressively you sift it, how much of the whether you regrind the brand and how how you put it back in.
+
+[46:57] Like those are the variables that I like to mess with, or the mixtures of different wheats that you use. Um if you're already mixing wheat, why not mix some wheat you have milled with wheat other people have milled? Well, I just don't I just don't find it interesting. It's like, it's like, I'm just not interested in it. Like, it's like, you know, it's not it's it's not interesting to me.
+
+[47:22] And like it's also like uh I don't pine for, I am not like, I don't wake up in the morning and be like, I wish I could mill King Arthur's all-purpose flour, because I I think it's a good flower. No, I'm not sure. And when I'm using it, I agree, I like it, right? But I don't care. Uh like I have like 15 wheat varieties in my house, and I'm like, I wonder what's gonna happen if I put this wheat variety and this wheat variety together.
+
+[47:48] What's the result gonna taste like? You know, what's the mixture? Like to me, that's just so much more interesting. You know what I mean? Like I agree.
+
+[47:55] I'm just speaking to like a mid-level crazy person, like me. I don't think it's any, like the thing is, I just in other words, like I just think it's a cop out. Like, look, it if if it makes you happy, do it. If it makes it happy, do it. It's just like I don't like uh it you know, it's like it's like if you were like going back to brewing again.
+
+[48:14] It's like, you know, I'm not saying everyone has to be all grain if they're doing brewing. You know what I mean? It's just like that's what I'm interested in. Okay, but yeah, but Dave, here's my here's my context. To me, this is like a cocktail where one component is well made and the rest are bugged.
+
+[48:31] Yeah, but I would never do that. Yeah, but I would you would no, of course not. Like either I either either I buy either I buy spirits, either I buy spirits, right, or I modify spirits. But what you're doing is using Rose's grenadine. That's what that's so like No, it's because you're telling me y you've never made a cocktail, or you've not well again, you buy the spirits and then you would make a syrup.
+
+[49:01] Yeah, but I can't make in other words like uh like, because I can't make those spirits. Like I can't make a gin. I can't make a gin. Yes, but they can because they're milling. Right.
+
+[49:13] You know what I'm saying? So it's like it's like either do it or don't do it. You know what I mean? It's like, do it or don't do it. That's what I'm saying.
+
+[49:14] It's like uh, you know, I'm not I can't make a better gin than my favorite gin. If I could, I would do it. I cannot. I cannot make a better whiskey. Now, if I started making whiskeys, then I would focus on that, but I wouldn't blend my whiskey with somebody else's whiskey, right?
+
+[49:40] Or if I was making my own gin, I wouldn't blend that gin with tank array. You know what I'm saying? Anyway. All right. All right.
+
+[49:50] But listen, everyone needs to do what makes them happy. So if it makes you happy, I'm happy that it makes you happy. It's just not the way that I work. That's all. Anyway.
+
+[50:01] Um Justin writes in, I remember Dave was working on a home four-size ton uh four-ton uh press, home size four-ton press uh for juice extraction, but I'd be interested in using it uh for something like a cocoa press. I've not found a source for smaller scale press that would work. So for a cocoa, so the issue with uh, yes, so like I was working on it, the plans. I think I put those on the Patreon, right? All the plans for that thing.
+
+[50:28] I didn't I never put the images of it up. I'll I'll double check later. Yeah, I can put the images of it up. Yeah, so like, you know, mine was way overbuilt. There's a lot of people online.
+
+[50:39] Uh just you know, go to go on the evil Amazon or Harbor Freight or whatever and buy a four-ton or more hydraulic jack, and then just make sure that you want to get one with a double RAM. So, like uh, so the RAM is the part of the jack that goes up and down, and a single RAM usually has a very short stroke, and you're gonna want a longer stroke so that you can uh so you have a little more like movement, right? If you have a lot of money, you can get one that is uh powered, and then you don't have to sit there like an idiot and go, I you know, didn't have money, so I wouldn't let you pump, right? The other trick I learned from somebody else who's uh an old uh hand at making uh these things is that my original one for the bar, which was a 20-ton press, uh was a shop press, and shop presses that the the actual jack is above what would be your food because that's more convenient to build. But uh someone was like, Have you ever met a hydraulic system that doesn't eventually leak?
+
+[51:39] And I was like, correct. So like you want to put the the press underneath uh whatever the food is because in case well, or you could just you know it's the equivalent of going commando. You know what I mean? It's like eventually it might leak and your stuff's ruined, but the one that I built, I put it underneath, even though it is much technically easier to go from the top down. The other thing you need to worry about when you're doing the press is um if the press is not uh if i if the if the thing that you're moving that's attached to the ram isn't firmly attached to it, uh it's gonna start tilting.
+
+[52:15] So as soon as like if if the stuff's not loaded straight, right? It's gonna tilt on an angle, and then that kind of ends up getting more severe over time. So you want to have it so that it really wants to stay concentric with the RAM as it goes down. That makes sense. So aluminum is good enough.
+
+[52:31] Uh in fact, like stacks of plywood and half-inch eye bolts are an uh uh are an are half inch uh rather um you know threaded studs are good enough for for this level uh of work but you just need to make sure everything stays concentric and stays uh centered and you know you can just look up the PSI ratings that things can tolerate and then you can figure out how much force you're actually putting on it by doing the calculations of how big your presser foot are and stuff like that. That's what I did. And if it breaks, just you know, it's not a big deal. Uh Agos. Uh anybody knows, uh anybody who knows this, I was transporting some jars of brine capers.
+
+[53:08] I had a lid failure and some of the liquid spilled. I'm sorry for whatever that stuff spilled on because it's runt. You know what I mean? I guess it's not oily, it'll eventually come out, right? Stinky caper Brian.
+
+[53:19] Oh my god, I was at this wedding uh in Austin and and and uh so the the bride put one of those little you know those tinsel wigs, those disco tinsel wigs. Yeah, put one on me, pink. Uh you know what? Uh here's a piece of information for you. Uh those colors leak.
+
+[53:35] So like and here's another piece of information, and Stasi knows this. She's seen it firsthand. I sweat like I sweat unbelievable amount. I look like I've been in a rainstorm. I sweat through suits.
+
+[53:48] I sweat completely through my suits. Yeah. Stas, correct? You're not saying why. You're not saying why.
+
+[53:54] Oh, why? Because you dance like all night long. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[54:00] Yeah. Once like once the flip the switch is flip, stas, it's over, right? Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah.
+
+[54:08] It's fun. Yeah. It's just like once it's once it's going, like it takes a while to get me going. It's like I'm one of those old uh like 1910s cars with a crank that you have to like crank it to get it going 'cause I don't have like an electric starter. But like uh yeah, once going, once going, keep going.
+
+[54:29] You know what I mean? People are like, you need to go get a drink of water. I'm like, no. Anyway, uh, so yeah, the the the color leaked out of this tinsel wig and completely ruined both me, I was stained the next day, and my other thing about those tinsel wigs. They're unsafe.
+
+[54:50] Because when you inhale, I sucked a tinsel piece off the wig into my nose into my throat. I coughed the tinsel back up. Hardcore. Hardcore. Um Sid Barrett did back when Pink Floyd.
+
+[55:07] What he would have those pink wigs on? He did the uh the Mandrax um Mandrax tranquilizer, and he put they they crushed it up and put it in their hair gel, and they all lost their minds on stage. That's pretty hardcore. That's pretty real. Yeah.
+
+[55:22] Hey, you know, people go in New York City now and go to clinics and that you're allowed to get injected with ketamine in clinics now. Yeah. Uh what for? Uh apparently it it's kind of an amazing drug for um uh drug resistant depression, actually, like long-term drug resistant depression. But um, yeah, I just was like, wow, I didn't even know that was a thing.
+
+[55:45] You can go get injected with ketamine in New York City, but it's in fancy neighborhoods, so it's probably people also with cash. You know what I mean? Anyway, uh back to Augustus issue. Um, I was transporting some uh jars of Brian Capers, had a lid failure, and some of the liquid spilled. Is it still safe as it is, or should I top it up with Brian?
+
+[56:04] And if so, what percentage of salt should I aim for? It's fine. They're salted through. You might get some crystallization on them as they dry out. Like for a so for a quality standpoint, maybe you could top it up, but I would just eat the capers that are on top.
+
+[56:17] You know? Right? No. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[56:21] Also, August, you should be dry. You should be buying the salt pack capers and then and then desalinating them yourself. I've never done that though. I mean, I have done it, but I've never become a regular. I don't have a pantry full of salt pack capers, and then you know, I do all this stuff to get them back.
+
+[56:38] Do you what about any of you guys salt pack caper people? No. I mean, I've done it, but not constantly, right? For years I was salt pack anchovy man, though. Had the big can of salt pack anchovies because they are better.
+
+[56:51] I love oil pack anchovies, but I loved salt pack anchovies. You know what I mean? Yeah. Probably good to make with butter, huh? What salt pack anchovy?
+
+[57:00] Mm-hmm. Yeah, salt pack anchor butter. I love that. Oh my god, it is so good. Uh all right.
+
+[57:06] Hey, I'm a question. So when you guys use the oil pack anchovies, you use the oil. I use the oil. Yeah. I mean, I just don't when I'm uh like so like anytime I'm doing like a dressing and like I'm putting the anchovies in, I'll like make like a big bag, I'll just throw the whole can in with the oil and use the oil.
+
+[57:21] Yeah. Yeah. Right? Same. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[57:23] Hey, speaking of uh using things, restaurants, whatnot, how's the Belgian menu going? It's going. Been doing some recipe testing, which has been going well. The cheese croquettes came out well. Uh, gonna try and work on some better ballin' this week.
+
+[57:38] And yeah, I'm excited. It's gonna be fun. We can talk about it more next week. We only got two minutes left to get to questions. Steven Stanton, Dave mentioned in passing a syrup you used to make using ginger galangal and turmeric.
+
+[57:48] Did he just juice a three and bring it to 50 bricks? Or was this a boiled in water situation? It was a boiled and it was a slice super thin boiled in water situation. But that's not the way I would do it now. Right?
+
+[57:57] I could do it differently now. Although I don't lastly, would uh the Garrett Richard slash Darcy O'Neill slash Dave Arnold Ginger Houstino technique be effective for usino using this trio, love these flavors and love to make some cool beverages and incorporate them. I could see both wet uh pathways as something special. All right, here's the uh issue. Um I need to do more work, but in other words, you could do it for sure.
+
+[58:17] Um it does it have to be non-alcoholic because really the product is better when it's made with alcohol. I haven't done all three together, but I am uh happy to do it. You no longer really need to do the mag carb. It makes it much more difficult. I have new ways to do the ginger coming out.
+
+[58:32] The real trick to ginger is adding a little acid before you add the um pectanex, and that will cause it to drop out, and you can get about 90% yield just by letting it sit and racking. Although I shouldn't say that because I'm here to sell centrifugies. Mark and Long Island said I found some unopened ingredients from Monitors Pantry and Will Powder in the back of my pantry. The best uh best buy date is 2016 and a few 2019. Even though they are expired, can I still safely use any of them?
+
+[58:57] Yes. Uh 100%. The only things that are gonna have problems with are things like uh soy lessethane. If the if things were open, so they can clump up and sometimes the measurements they pull in water, but other than that, 90% of those ingredients are gonna be good until we die. Uh Wizmer, what's the best way to uh dry an herb and maintain its aroma?
+
+[59:15] I've got a decent dehydrator. Seems like high temperatures might flash off too many volatiles. You know what, Wizmard? I don't know. I want cooking issues people to tell me what their best way to dehydrate herbs is, because I am not an expert in that.
+
+[59:26] Balloon Knot says, would flour stored in the freezer used cold make a stiffer pasta dough, then the same flour brought to room temperature in an airtight container. Hydration technique being the same, stiffer when mixing in a stand mixer. I've never heard of this. Have you? Storing it in a freezer in an airtight bag.
+
+[59:40] If anyone has heard of this as a thing, please let me know on Twitter at at cooking Issues because I want to hear more about this. I don't know the phenomenon balloon knot, but I'm curious what it is because never dismiss something that somebody has observed until you figure out what's going on. Rob Pasco says a while ago, Dave mentioned a book of recipe for making muffins. I haven't been able to find the reference again. What was the resource and do we have any tip for making muffins?
+
+[1:00:00] Yes. Go look at the 1993 uh issues of the original Cooks Illustrated. There's a how to make muffins recipe in that, and it is spot on. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you alive from Rockefeller Center in the heart of Manhattan in New York City. Newstand Studios joined as usual with John. How you doing? Doing great thanks.
+
+[0:22] Yeah? Yeah. Really? Yeah. It's too freaking warm, dude.
+
+[0:26] Yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah, 10 degrees colder. Crap on us. I'm ready ready for the fall weather, though.
+
+[0:32] I like how it's, you know, getting to be holiday season and it's I like the stuff here in New York. Okay. Yeah. Uh got Joe Hazen rocking the panels. What's up, my man?
+
+[0:42] How you doing, sirs? Doing all right. Dan Madams. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[0:46] Well, speaking of, we got in uh Los Angeles uh Nastasia the Hambra Lopez. How you doing? Good. How are you? I'm all right.
+
+[0:55] I guess. You know. Uh traveling up the Pacific Coast Highway. We have uh in San Francisco, uh Jackie Molecules. Jack Insley, how you doing?
+
+[1:04] Ew, I'm good. What are you doing in San Francisco, by the way? Uh some some podcast interviews for the Line Hotel. They have a property here in Tenderloin, which not the most fun part of San Francisco. But like what do you mean, just because you don't like uh what, getting yelled at or whatever?
+
+[1:21] Isn't blue bottle is it near the mint? But uh I don't know, actually. I don't know San Francisco very well, to be honest. But Tenderloin's well. So you're just gonna lob some bombs at the city and then be like, I don't really know.
+
+[1:32] It's all right. I mean Tenderlin's kind of like, you know, I don't know. It's a bad cut of meat. It's a bad cut of meat. There you go.
+
+[1:41] Exactly. You know what I mean? I mean, it's not a bad cut of meat. It's just whenever you go to some place and they're like, oh, tenderloin. Oh, great.
+
+[1:49] Awesome. Thanks. Yeah. You know what I mean? Mids.
+
+[1:52] Overcook it, please. Please overcook it. You know what I mean? Worst. Uh I I I, although I I actually don't mind like, because fillet is tenderloin.
+
+[2:03] Yeah. And I I like filet. I'm gonna go ahead and say I like it, even though it's not the most flavorful cut of meat. Yeah, agreed. It like when done properly, i.e.
+
+[2:11] barely, you know, just like a nice crust, and then like this sitting there, that little like 1970s blob of meat there with some freaking potats next to it, some gravy, some freaking Matrid of Hotel Butter. Glazed carrots like that. Oh, yeah, dude. Glazed carrots are so money. They really are.
+
+[2:29] So, oh, by the way, before we go too much further, so like you f go up the coast even more and then take a seaplane or a boat over to Vancouver Island, and then you'll find you'll find Quinn over there on in Nanaimo. Nanaimo. Yeah. How's it? How you how you doing over there?
+
+[2:46] Great. All right, good. Back to carrots. So my favorite recent carrot I've had is remember Miley was on, Miley, Miley Carpenter, my sister-in-law. Her roast carrots, she says she hasn't do anything, but they're real good.
+
+[2:59] And in fact, when I saw uh once I saw the Food Network magazine and they had like perfectly peeled carrots with like the little stub on it, like perfectly like glazed, panned, the way she does it in like sheet panned. And I was like, Miley, did you did you like look at the original and you're like, no, you're gonna do it my way? Because Miley's carrots are like a carrot above. Like they're a carrot above. And I don't even think she's sourcing like hyper fancy carrots.
+
+[3:24] If I got her Pete's Greens carrots from Maine, sorry, from Vermont, not me. Came over. If I got her Vermont Pete's, because apparently a cold weather carrot put in the ground and kept as long as it can be kept underground without freezing, it just gets sweeter and sweeter and sweeter. You know how I do my carrots? I cheat and I add sugar to them, like most of us.
+
+[3:48] Yeah. Yeah. Don't be afraid to add sugar to your kids. No, don't. Yeah.
+
+[3:52] But uh I'm too lazy to do it, uh, to to pan it. So I always do it. Um, I I cheat though. Like, you know how like in cooking school, I don't know if anyone knows this, but in cooking school, the way they used to teach you to do this, right? Is you'd put a little bit of water, you'd put in the carrots or whatever in the pan, sugar salt, and then you'd make a parachute-shaped uh like they called it on glaze, right?
+
+[4:13] A l'anglaze, right? That's the way that, yeah. And you make a parachute-shaped like parchment with a hole in the middle, and you drop that sucker on top, and then you hit it, right? What wouldn't they what do they call it? Is it not on glaze?
+
+[4:24] What is it called? I don't know. I'm thinking about the name of the parchment circle. Uh-huh. You mean the cartouche?
+
+[4:28] Cartouche, there we go. Yeah, I should remember cartouche because rhymes with douche. You know what I mean? It's like, and so you put that thing on top and then you you hit it, and then, and now that's the way. And then it evaporates, and when it evaporates, you know, I always put oil in too.
+
+[4:43] It doesn't spatter too much, and then it self-glazes, right? So it's a lot easier than like parsed. To me, it's a lot easier than like parboiling, throw, because then it's taking flavor out of it, right? Then putting it in and doing a post-glaze on it or adding the sugar later. Like, so this is the way I always do it, but then like some purists are like, well, you have to guarantee that you add the exact amount of water or the carrots.
+
+[5:03] We like, listen, just add a little bit too less water, idiot. And then if it needs a little more cooking, throw a couple more spoons of water in. That's the way the rest of the world does it, people. You don't have to, not everything has to be complicated. Anyway, that's the way I cook most veg.
+
+[5:16] Yeah. But I I don't make the I don't make the carduche anymore. I just I put a lid over it and let it go. I mean, like, let's be honest. Who needs that?
+
+[5:24] I think that comes from a day when you didn't have lids around. Because you know how, like, in a in a like a lot of times in commercial situations, like you're like, oh, lid, no. And then you take your your fry pan and you throw it on top of your pot. How many times do you use just your fry pan as your lid? Almost never.
+
+[5:39] Um, I have my lids. I use only Mauvial cookware, and I have all of the lids for them, and I never lose them. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, but cartouche's gotta be older than that. It's got lots of like Escoffier stuff.
+
+[5:52] Maybe even older. Yeah. Do you know there's they definitely had lids for all their pants? He definitely. Well, I thought the advantage.
+
+[6:00] I thought the advantage of the cartouche is that there's like a little evaporation. So is there with a lid? True. You ever you ever think you can't like you can't put a lid on a pot, turn it above the boiling point of water and walk away and not have that thing evaporate to dry pretty damn quick. Sure, but uh is the cartouche more to like help avoid a skin forming on the top too.
+
+[6:23] Skin on top of your freaking carrots? Well, okay, maybe not the carrots, but I'm thinking other things. Okay. Well, that's not so usually if you don't want a skin on top, you put in quote unquote a knob of butter. Throw a knob of butter on top.
+
+[6:36] I will not. I'll put a piece of butter on top. Not gonna put a knob of butter on top. You know what I mean? What about ginger?
+
+[6:43] Do you ever cook with a knob of ginger? No. There's some mint on it. What do you mean? You you use recipe.
+
+[6:52] Wait, you use recipes where you throw in the ginger and then remove the ginger in one piece? Because otherwise you would slice the ginger. Otherwise you would slice the hell out of it. In fact, I take pains. So the way that I do the ginger is it's uh it's like almost halfway to a uh how do they call the onions?
+
+[7:10] It's sizzle. Sisole, right? Like where they where they could check, chak, chak, chak, chak, chak, chak, check. I'm making like, so like imagine you take the ginger and you hold it and then you cut it rip up into like vertical slices so you can see the root. Then you rotate it 90 degrees and then you go shoop, shump, shump, shump, shump.
+
+[7:27] So there's no fiber longer than a tiny little bit because I hate those fibers. Hate. Hate. Anyway, but the only way oh, I see what you're saying, as a measurement, a knob of ginger. No, it's a horrible measurement.
+
+[7:39] Yeah. It's a freaking terrible measurement. Dude, I go to look at ginger, and sometimes the ginger, what you would call a quote unquote knob, is like the size of my of like five times my thumb, and sometimes it's like the size of my pinky, depending on like what style of ginger they got, like whether it's quote unquote organic. You know what I mean? No, no knobs.
+
+[8:02] Is there anything that can be successfully measured by knob? Doors. Even doorknobs, different sizes. Even doorknobs. Well, like if you have to, if you have to measure a number of doors, how many knobs are there?
+
+[8:18] Probably a good number of doors. All right. I mean, I kind of have to give it to you on a technicality, but that's not what it means. Anyway, uh, yeah, I don't know. I've I haven't made a cartouche since, I don't know, in probably like 20 years.
+
+[8:32] I just don't do it. What about like, well, we don't know, we'll we'll get back to it. But like uh, do you ever used to do the um all of those old moisture management tricks I think are interesting, and I'd like to research how they happened. You know what I mean? Like how someone decided that it would be easier to do that and to stick that thing all the way down.
+
+[8:50] Because there's a famous, like, you know, there's a famous Chinese cooking braising techniques where you stick a pot, a lid inside the pot that floats right on the water, right on the brazing surface, and then will go down as it cooks. So the lid is actually inside of the pot. And I don't really know why, unless that's to keep things submerged, or I really don't understand it, to be honest. You know, give you a visual indication of when it's done. I don't really get it.
+
+[9:19] Um I don't. By the way, I do like a glass lid. Do you like a glass lid? I like a glass lid. Yeah.
+
+[9:26] I love a glass lid. I have all my all my pens have standard kind of steel lids, and I have a couple glass lids, and I always use the glass lid if I can, so I can see what's going on. You know what I mean? Oh, this is nice, yeah. Technically, technically, like if you were using it uh, you're gonna get less heat loss out of metal, but I don't really think it's that big of a deal because it's never going that much above uh the boiling point of water.
+
+[9:52] So the radiation difference you're gonna get off of a glass lid is like so not that much more than you'll get off of a off of a stainless lid. You know what I mean? It's just not a big deal. Just not a big deal. Uh all right.
+
+[10:05] What about uh now's the time when uh we talk about uh what's happened in the past week? Anything? Especially because uh Patreon folks, you are light on questions this week. So we don't have that many, we don't have that many questions to go through. But I will say that uh next week we have uh uh as our guest, uh Robert Simonson, who uh I don't know, this is like his 95th cocktail book, something like this.
+
+[10:29] Something like that, yeah. Something like this. He I think he's trying to write more books than like I think once he reaches the number of books as years he's been alive, then he'll only do one a year or something like this. But he writes, you know, infinity cocktail books. So if you have any questions about writing for the New York Times, uh, because he's still their cocktail correspondent, right?
+
+[10:47] They're their cocktail writer. I don't know. I think he still writes for the Times. And um anyway, he's a well-known cocktail writer about town. Uh he'll be on next week pushing his new book.
+
+[11:00] And then uh on November 21, we have uh Matt Sartwell from Kitchen Arts and Letters coming forward at Classics in the Field. Classics in the field. Yeah. So listen, I really want you guys to ask some questions beforehand so you can look it up on Classics in the Field so we can really get get going. Um then uh you want to talk about the benefits of Patreon if there are any, so such as they are?
+
+[11:23] Yeah. Um again, uh patrons today, as of this Tuesday, we'll get a promo code for uh Robert's latest book, because we try to get promo codes from Kitchen Arts and Letters for all of the guest books. So that always tends to happen. And uh early access to the podcast, access to the podcast video stream if you get a certain tier, and then sometimes we do uh special live streams, right, Dave? Uh yeah, yeah.
+
+[12:02] Spe well, when we miss a show, usually I try to do some sort of live stream to make up for it. And then, you know, the real problem with that though is they're trying to figure out how to get the most people who can like uh watch it as possible because that I don't think that they stay around, right? Like we did one with McGee that was a lot of fun. But no, the the you the YouTube one where you were different claims. Oh yeah.
+
+[12:19] All right, great. Um You know what I want to do? I want to get people more discounts on like the equipment that we use. Like equipment that we like. I want to get I want to get the patrons more discounts on that.
+
+[12:30] That was fun. And like people like Edwards Age Meat, meat that we like. Yeah. We get meat that we like. Yeah.
+
+[12:29] That'd be right. You know what I mean? Yeah. We're gonna do that. I'm gonna we're gonna Quinn.
+
+[12:40] You hear me? That's what we gotta do. All right. Uh well. Also, listeners should go to Patreon.com slash cooking issues.
+
+[12:51] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh all right, listen. What do you guys got for me this week?
+
+[12:56] What do you got? What do you got going? Who's got some cooking? Who's got some cooking issues this week? Nobody's got anything you have to carry the show.
+
+[13:03] Oh man, you guys are the worst. The worst. I was waiting for everyone else. Um John, you got nothing? No, I mean I got stuff.
+
+[13:10] I've been working on uh um my new menu. Um so trying to do something more Belgian, or not something more Belgian, something Belgian. Um which is exciting. It's fun to think about this cuisine that really no one really knows too much of. Name a cuisine that is more underrated than the Belgian cuisine.
+
+[13:28] I mean, I'm sure there are plenty, plenty, plenty, but it's in Belgium. In Western Europe. Yeah, okay, fair. Yeah, no, but few. Yeah.
+
+[13:36] Um Croatia. Western Europe. Yeah. Um well but you know, we I mean, it's mussels and waffles and french fries and chocolate and beers, you know, but there's really a lot more to it. But other countries think they can do those things.
+
+[13:51] That's the problem. Yeah, but there also is like a But they can't. They can't. No, but there also is like a lot of like, you know, obviously regional variations, but you know, Belgium's a pretty small country. The difference in cuisine between Southern Belgium and Northern France, not super different.
+
+[14:07] You know, a lot of shared ingredients, shared things like that. Um, even and out through our friends at Kitchen Arts and Letters, I got these really uh great French cookbooks that the government had put together back in the 1970s of all the different regions in France, and I got the two books of the regions that uh border Belgium and it's just so much of the same stuff, which was really interesting. I need to see things that I thought were uniquely Belgium were being shared down there. Like what? Like Carbonade?
+
+[14:33] Carbonade, um, more in the Ardenne region, a lot of game kind of stuff. A lot of the hams and the saucisols and things like that were shared. Um the uh Jambon d'Arden is that's French, right? No, that's Belgian. That's Belgian?
+
+[14:46] Yeah, yeah. It's delicious. Yeah, it is really. It's it it's like a smoked country ham in a sense, but I don't know, I haven't had it in decades. No, that's not true.
+
+[14:56] I had it a couple years ago. It's delicious. It's a really, really good product. And I'm trying to get Murray's to bring it here. But because the French push their their Bayonne, which is the other side of the country, yeah.
+
+[15:06] Their country. But like, have you had the the Ardenne raw? Like like like crude style, like like Pujuto style. Yeah, and it's delicious. Oh, so really good.
+
+[15:16] Now you now you got me some FOMO. I know. Well, yeah. Who's the best produ like like who's the like is there commodity bull crap and then great stuff like there is here with country? I think so, yeah.
+
+[15:25] Uh there's one big butcher or you know, big butcher in Belgium. He's got like three locations, I think. Direndonk. Um, and I think he makes a really good product, but then also just as you go through that southern part of Belgium, they're you know, just like random butcher shops that make their own product and it's pretty consistently delicious. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[15:42] And you're also like weird cross-cultural because like your your family is Flemish, but you speak French, right? Yeah. Well, I only speak French the rest of my yeah. You know, my dad spoke Flemish and his whole side of the family smoked Flemish. Yeah, so self-hate.
+
+[15:56] You're self-hating. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Love it. So, but that would mean that you're more what?
+
+[16:01] Your like family is more western. Yes. Yeah, my dad is from Ghent, so I guess that's more Western part of Belgium. Yeah, yeah. But like, you know, so the next time I go, which I gotta go back.
+
+[16:13] That's like as soon as you go to Belgium and start eating stuff, you're like, I gotta go back to this place. Right. I'm gonna go. I I need to go east and check out Liege. Yeah.
+
+[16:20] I need that freaking syrup. Yes. That le that syrup of Liege. Oh my god. You get it you're getting that for the restaurant.
+
+[16:27] I haven't thought of it, but actually, yeah, maybe. It's so good. It's so good. It's the the boulet boulet liégeo, the meatballs with the that fruit sauce on top of French fries, is so good. Alright, now talking about waffles.
+
+[16:40] Are you a Liege or are you Brussels or some th or you you are you one of those little stroophy weasels? Well, all three are delicious, but definitely more liege. Really? Yeah. More of a liege man, huh?
+
+[16:51] That's just what I remember having as a kid. And I don't know, it's just always delicious, and I love the like little pearls of sugar in there. I mean, listen, a Brussels waffle definitely has its place. Oh yes, it does. Um in my mouth.
+
+[17:01] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um I'm sorry, Dave.
+
+[17:05] I can't allow that. But uh is there a Western waffle? What do you mean? Well, Brussels is kind of in the middle. Yeah.
+
+[17:14] So is there like a Western, like a more coastal waffle? No, not really. No. Yeah. That's really the two.
+
+[17:20] Well, what is the foundation for this magic syrup you guys are talking about? It's basically like a fruit butter thing. But it's but it's it's lighter. And not lighter. It's uh it's it's it's not fully jellied, right?
+
+[17:37] It's depectinized or something, isn't it? Like something, yeah. It's very yeah. Spreadable and it's yeah, and it's like it's I think it's it's theoretically, I thought made from all like the uh whatever you would call like the fruit of the forest, right? I think so, yeah, but I think fui de bois or whatever, like yeah, like a big part of it now is dates.
+
+[17:56] I think it's cheating, yeah. Cheater. Yeah, but it is high in sugar. It is, yeah, yeah. Dates are delicious.
+
+[18:01] Yeah, yeah. Good stuff. But I don't know, it's fun to be thinking about this menu, you know, especially because I never actually lived in Belgium, did spend a lot of time there, but it's fun to you know, connect with this sense of family history and kind of figure things out and find ways to put my spins on it that make it a little more interesting for the people eating here. So like one dish that I'm really looking forward to to trying that sounds really good in my mind. Just need to get my combi oven fixed.
+
+[18:28] Um there's this dish called uh lapin a crick, so rabbit stewed in the cherry lambique beer. Uh yeah. Um served over French fries and all those good things, of course. But I think it would be really interesting to do that similar kind of sauce, but with duck, um, some nice duck stock, layer it with the cherry beer, maybe some cherry preserves to thicken it up. So not rabbit, not rabbits.
+
+[18:48] Yeah, because you know what Americans don't really eat? Exactly. Rabbit. Yeah. Yeah, like a rabbit is delicious, but if you put rabbit on the menu, people are like, what?
+
+[18:56] Exactly. And then you you even if you were like lepin, they'd be like, What's that? You're like rabbit. They're like, nah. No, exactly.
+
+[19:02] Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, not to mention you would do a good job. But like a lot of people who even like theoretically would eat rabbit would be like, mm, it's gonna be dry and bony. And you're like, you know what I mean?
+
+[19:14] Yeah. And I don't think it's physically possible in a restaurant from a cost standpoint, unless you had infinity time and money to serve some sort of boneless rabbit prep. Yeah. Like it'd be oh, like you can't so time consuming. Yeah, it's not possible.
+
+[19:29] Infinity money. Yeah. Yeah. It'd be good. It'd be good, yeah.
+
+[19:33] And then make a stock from the bones. Be delicious. Imagine if you could do that. Your yield would be zero. Yeah.
+
+[19:38] What if you if you like, if you somehow could like bone it out, right? And then like glue it back into a like, you know, like, and then like, that'd be good. It would be good. Ridiculous. Very time consuming.
+
+[19:51] Ridiculous. Do you know what I used to do when I was so so young and stupid? And I tried to do it once at the French culinary, but it's just such a pain in the butt. I used to do the, you know how you inside out bone quail? Yeah.
+
+[20:02] Yeah. So you would inside out bone the quail. And then I would I would I would uh you know uh low temp them and then put the put the uh uh like a 62 egg inside and then bread and fry them. And then you could they're almost like a quail scotch egg. That sounds good.
+
+[20:22] It was really really good. But it was like, what a pain in the ass. Yeah. I mean, but but what a pain in the butt. Like just do that at home.
+
+[20:31] Yeah. Do that at home. Do that for you and your four best friends. Don't do that for people who are coming in and paying for it. Because that's the worst.
+
+[20:39] There's certain things you can't do for money. Yeah. You know what I mean? Agreed. Things you do for love.
+
+[20:45] Uh all right, what else? What else? Uh what else you got? Uh went to a superiority burger last night. Oh, yeah.
+
+[20:53] Which was really good. Was is Brooks uh how was was Brooks there? Yeah, he was there, yeah. Was he wearing his French fry hat? Yeah, of course.
+
+[20:58] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Brooks Brooks Hedley, famous for his French fry hat, right, Stas. Yeah, remember uh like Brooks Hadley loved wearing his like fry guy hat, but did not like you mentioning the fried guy hat. So I mean, Stas, what about that?
+
+[21:19] Like, what how is it that you can wear a hat that is so easy to comment on, but also not enjoy when people comment on it? Like, how does that work? I have no idea. I mean, but you know what I'm saying, right? Like if he if you I don't remember getting mad about the French Fry hat.
+
+[21:36] We should get him on the show. We could get Brooks. I mean, like, I don't know, not after I said that. It's over. Yeah, true enough.
+
+[21:43] Yeah. I would love to get Brooks. So I haven't I haven't spoken to uh Brooks in years. We're great, I have to say. Yeah, really is.
+
+[21:51] Yeah, I went recently as well. And his worth all the hype. The motto at Superiority Burger is like be humble, right? Or stay humble or something like that, or is that just in my head that that's one of the mottos he had, or some poster he had on the wall back then? I think it was some poster he had back on the wall in the day, but yeah, we should get him on.
+
+[22:06] Yeah, yeah. Um, maybe may Stas, is he mad at us because we used to troll him all the time? Like privately troll him. I think he's mad at you. Why is he mad at me?
+
+[22:17] You're the one that you're the one that trolled him. Why would he be mad at me? I'll tell him that. I'll say, be mad at me. But like, oh, so he blames all those things that we did, he blames me and not you.
+
+[22:28] I know we're he and I are good. I don't know if I thought I assume we're good. Who's texting you during the pandemic? Yeah, yeah. I think we're good.
+
+[22:35] Yeah. Yeah, we're good. We should have him on. Yeah. Yeah, good man.
+
+[22:38] Good. Good cook. Good uh good. I haven't been in a long time. It's really good.
+
+[22:44] Yeah. It's really good. What kind of buns is he using now? I didn't ask. Yeah, I don't know.
+
+[22:51] I mean, one of the sandwiches is the brace collar greens is on their fracaccio, which their fracaccia's really, really excellent. Frickach is so good. So good. What do they put in the braised collar greens to stay in place for the uh the meat that you would normally put into your brace collar green? I'm not sure.
+
+[23:06] I wish I could have asked more questions. They were pretty busy. Yeah. Which was great. You know what we should do?
+
+[23:11] If we have them on, then you could ask these questions. Exactly. That'd be great. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[23:15] Yeah. Yeah. All right. All right, Quinn, what do you got? Yeah.
+
+[23:18] Tell your rarin to go. What do you got? Okay, we didn't do too too much. Uh I I mentioned last week, my dad's birthday, we did the whole hog. So we had a lot of leftover whole hog.
+
+[23:32] Yeah. And uh my brother got a uh ravioli stamp for my dad. So my dad made sort of a farce of the leftover cooked whole hog with uh scallion and garlic. We shmeared that between two layers of put fresh pasta dough, stamped it out into the sort of low profile, but pretty, you know, big revioli. I eat fried off you use the word farce and schmear in one situation.
+
+[24:09] Before you go on, I just want to be clear here. You did not put the filling into discrete units. You basically made a sandwich and then just smashed through the filling to join the pasta layers. All right. Yeah.
+
+[24:23] Then, yeah, okay, sorry. I was just trying to make sure I was clear on what you're doing. Oh yeah, yeah. And then fried off a little more of the farce. Sort of mix it with like a streamed roasted cherry tomato for like a quick little Hugo Ragu type situation.
+
+[24:43] And then just, you know, boil off the ravioli and serve it with the sauce it was really, really, really good. I wish there was a way you could scare the skins off of a cherry tomato. Just like walk up to a cherry tomato and be like, boo, and then have the skins like fly off. You know what I mean? Because cherry like a lot of cherry tomatoes and grape tomatoes, they're delicious, but like um the skins are bad.
+
+[25:06] You know what I mean? Like the sky stuff to blanch them and peel them at a place I worked for sucks. Sucks. You know? Sucks.
+
+[25:14] Yeah. Like that's why I think Kamparis are the sweet spot if you have to peel them because they're big enough that you're getting a decent yield out of them. But yeah, but if you need them to be like whole like cherries for like the look on a plate and you have to peel them all, God help me. That's not anything I would ever want to have to do. That's why I never do it.
+
+[25:32] Yeah. Does anyone sell them? No. No. No.
+
+[25:36] There's not there's not a pearl we need equivalent. That would be impossible. Nothing's impossible where there's money. Where there's money there's hope. Um all right so now uh you use the non standard uh technique here how much bleed well did you not get that much bleed out on the uh ravioli because they were so thin or did they did you have any delamination issues?
+
+[26:00] Yeah no we didn't have any delamination issues. How do we actually get an even layer you know between the filling okay let's just like spread a stripe across the whole, you know, big uh sheet. And well yeah, what was the what would the what was the media? See, here's the issue, right? So like if you took a uh i i like it when you say farce and when I'm hearing farce, I'm thinking almost like like mouslin, in which case it would work because you could literally just canel moussoline into water and they won't spray everywhere.
+
+[26:42] So it might be like self-sealing, whereas like I don't think this would work on like uh cheese filling or a non-bound filling, right? You see what I'm saying? Yeah, maybe. Yeah. So in other words, like I don't know that this would be it was all cooked, but it was pretty smooth.
+
+[26:57] So I don't know. No, you don't have to pre-cook. Oh, you're saying it was pre-cooked? Oh, but it was smooth. Yeah, like the mixture.
+
+[27:04] Yeah. No, the mixture was pretty smooth. Yeah. Did you bind it with eggs or any crap? Uh I don't think so.
+
+[27:11] My dad made it ahead, so I think it was just like the chummed up whole hog and then a little extra like flavorings. You know, chummed up is my favorite, one of my favorite things to say. But I don't say it on air enough, but like in real life, chummed up is like we don't like chum that up. You know what I mean? Like I use a lot, because chum, I don't know, it's a good word.
+
+[27:31] You know what I mean? I feel like it's one of those words needs to get used more. All right. And so uh what about what about you, uh Stas? Any food stuff going on in Los Angeles or no?
+
+[27:40] Anything? Anything? No, Jack and I were thinking and we didn't do anything He didn't do anything. Well, I saw I saw that you guys were at Flappy Doodles again, so I'm assuming you had the flappy nachos. I'm assuming you were seeing Pauly Shore again.
+
+[27:58] Is that accurate? Uh no. So what were you doing at Flappy's? Oh, you got Jeff Garland, who was great. Uh he yeah, he's uh he's hilarious.
+
+[28:06] I've never seen him other than on uh uh whatever that show with uh Larry David. But he was good. Yeah, he was fantastic. Did he get more than more than 15 people at the show? He did.
+
+[28:19] Yeah. Yeah. And how are the flappy notches? No, I did not touch the flappy nachos, no way. That's just such a gross name.
+
+[28:27] No. Flappy notches. Exactly. So, John, what do you think of this? Uh as an alternative service.
+
+[28:32] So like there's shows going on, right? And they have a light, and if you turn the light, wait, what is it? If you turn the light off, they come, or if you turn the light on, they come. I think if you turn it off, which doesn't make any sense. Doesn't make any sense at all.
+
+[28:49] Did the light break, or do you need some food? Um both. You know what I mean? It's like doesn't make any sense. It's real dumb.
+
+[28:57] Yeah. Yeah. But they're they they have to and they have to explain it to you 35 times. When you show up at a restaurant or a bar, a club, whatever, and you have some system that you think's a good idea, but you have to explain it 35 times. Not exactly.
+
+[29:11] It's a bad idea. Yeah. You know what I mean? Bad idea. Yeah.
+
+[29:14] It's like when you go to an airport and they have to hire someone to scream at you about what line to be in, right? No, no. This is a design problem, my friends. This is a design problem. You know?
+
+[29:26] Yeah. That's right. Why are you screaming at me? I don't come to this airport all the time. Here's my favorite.
+
+[29:30] When they're like, no, you like you go to one place, no, you need to take the laptops out of the bags. And then you're flying home and they're like, keep the laptops in the bags. It's like, what the hell, man? It's like, it's like, just put a giant freaking signed. Some airports do this.
+
+[29:47] Put a giant sign. I know it's different everywhere, so we're not mad at you, but in this airport, the laptops stay in the bag. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean Whole Foods checkout kind of nails it.
+
+[29:56] Yeah. Big sign colors. Bing. Noise. There's colors.
+
+[30:00] Yeah. Like, you know, like, yeah. An arrow pointing at you, and yet people still mess it up. Then I get bent. I'm like, uh, that's my register, fool.
+
+[30:08] Yeah. You know what uh Whole Foods blows at though? Whole Foods, I think peak was like I mean, I hate everyone knows I hate Amazon even though I shop with them constantly. But when they took over, I mean, obviously whole Whole Foods, like you know what I mean. But uh when I go there, now that I'm you're supposed to like sign in with your Amazon account, but it's not easy.
+
+[30:28] Doesn't it know who I am? I have my phone, I'm paying with it. Stupid. Have you been to the colour? Every time it makes no sense.
+
+[30:35] Makes no sense. I'm a prime member. I use my same credit card, same phone number, and every time they're like, we couldn't find your account. Yeah. Like owls are possible.
+
+[30:42] Yeah, you should walk up in the line. It should say, Jack Insley, go to the register because they know who you are. You know what I mean? That's right. Yeah.
+
+[30:52] You walk up. You know, it should be like, yo, you're able to tell me when my packages are arriving of everything else that I've ordered. Right. It should be, yo, Jack. Uh I noticed you were talking about being out of milk when you were at home, but you forgot.
+
+[31:05] Are you gonna get it at a different supermarket? Because we're watching. Right. And yet instead you're like, you're like trying to get to your QR code on the phone. Ridiculous.
+
+[31:16] That's why I don't even go anymore. Hell with it. Hell with it. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[31:20] Right. And so and you're gonna sit there and lie and tell me that you didn't have the flappy nachos because you sent me a picture of the menu item. I did, just because it's just a ridiculous name. No, I I haven't had anything good out in LA lately. Um though I've been trying to cook more at home.
+
+[31:37] I I made a uh a Japanese curry recently. Um and I had a moment of like uh short circuiting my brain where the it calls for uh deep caramel roux, and I couldn't decide in my brain what that meant, like what it looked, what what the color of deep caramel was. Wow. Like what were the choices in your head other than deep caramel? Deep caramel brown is what the recipe said.
+
+[32:05] Yeah. Which was like, hmm, but caramel is kind of its own color, it's not brown. So should it be deep brown or yeah, anyway. I mean, I think what that means is don't burn it. I think what that means is make it dark, but don't burn it.
+
+[32:20] I'm gonna translate that for you for the next time. Make make it dark, don't burn it. You an oven roux, you an oven roux. No. No, no, I'm you can do that.
+
+[32:30] Yeah, I'm I'm I'm big, I'm big oven roux for dark roos, obviously. Yeah. Speak more. Well, you just choose you choose a medium uh like a medium temperature so it's not gonna be too fast, like 300, three not three fifty. Put it in the pan, all the water evaporates pretty quickly, right?
+
+[32:49] And then you just sit there and you wait for it to cook to the color you want. Huh. Yeah. Really? Yeah.
+
+[32:54] How about that? Yeah. Well, that seems a lot easier than standing over stirring. Yeah. I'm also big and big on make ahead roux.
+
+[33:03] I've got like I I uh just a white roux. I've got like eight blocks of just a white roux in my freezer. Okay. Okay, so a couple of things on the roux. One, uh another good way to do it is to have the money to have a uh control free conduction burner.
+
+[33:21] That's another good way to do it. Oh, me, me, me, me. I didn't pay for it. You know what I mean? But me, me, me, me, me, they are quite handy.
+
+[33:31] Believe them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, look, the two biggest like reheat, the three biggest reheat things are the rice cooker, the induction burner, the control free conduction burner, and the and the uh APO, the uh uh precision oven, which is a reheat those these these three things are reheating monsters, you know what I mean? Or like keeping at a particular thing. Although I just really up uh with my rice cooker.
+
+[33:55] First of all, my rice cooker periodically, it's like 20 years old, it'll die. And then I'll unplug it, I'll say some words over it, you know what I mean, and I'll let it sit there for a week to kind of stop being angry at me, and then I'll plug it back in. And every time I've done this, it's come back to life. So it recently did it, but it had been out of commission for a little while. And I rested my arm on it.
+
+[34:18] So for those of you don't know how, like, like a Zoji Rushi rice cooker is sealed with a gasket all the way around. And all the steam from the rice comes out of three little tiny uh slots right in the top of the thing. And it still happens that it's right next to my induction burner. So I'm sitting there noom ni moon new on the induction burner. I put my I put my like my arm, rest it on the on the Zoji Rushi, not remembering that I had plugged it back in and was currently cooking rice, and it goes pho boy.
+
+[34:47] Look at that. Oh, yeah, it's a good little burn. Yeah, but it's like so that's if you want to know the exact shape of a Zoji Rushi like steam vent, just look at the look at the wrist. As soon as it happened, I was like, oh man. And then everyone's like, you gotta put ice on them.
+
+[35:02] Like, maybe I'll just cook dinner instead, right? Who the heck stops cooking their dinner so they can go put the ice on it? You know what I mean? That doesn't even really help. Yeah.
+
+[35:10] Now, you know what? So Wiley Dufresne, brother in law on the show, stretch pizza owner, blah, blah, blah. He swears by the old cook's technique of putting an egg white on it. But I hate the way it feels so much that I won't do it. Anyone here do the egg white trick?
+
+[35:24] I do the honey. Honey. Honey's great. I would also, I hate being sticky, but it will, I guess, stop the air. It just k it kills the pain.
+
+[35:32] Really? And it leaves a really uh I don't know what what the bacteria or whatever is inside honey. And it really does help the skin uh uh not form blisters. All right. But since you're talking about pizza, yeah.
+
+[35:44] And you are Wiley. What's the reheat technique on pizza? That's a good question. Uh so when I threw it all. Yeah, Sears all for the crust.
+
+[35:52] Like the best is like the best is like 300 at the in the APO, it's like 300 uh degrees, 50% uh 50% steam just to bring it back up to temperature and then flip it over and Sears all the bottom crust to make it like it crisp. In fact, before I even had the Searsol, I used to uh stand further back and blowtorch uh the bottom. So Lombardi's used to uh Lombardi's pizza is one of the famous pizza places in New York, and it goes kind of up and down in quality, right? But they used to, they're famous, they used to have a famous clam pie. And it used to be that they would add bacon to the clam pie.
+
+[36:33] And then they stopped doing they stopped basically doing anything that I wanted them to do. But like when that thing came, when you got it delivered, it was always it had trashed itself in the box. It had steamed the bottom of the crust in the box. So a flip and a toast on that was always like the super money. That was whenever we didn't have a kitchen.
+
+[36:51] That was what our that was what we were our go-to. Hey, I s I snuck more crushed red pepper into stretch pizza. Because I have to have crushed red pepper. And they don't have they don't serve crushed red pepper on the table there. And I just don't enjoy pizza without crushed red pepper.
+
+[37:07] I just don't enjoy it. You can't even ask for some. You probably would, but then you know, uh, it's I'm deemed by certain members of my family to be an egg-hole if I ask for things like that that aren't out. But if I want to enjoy it, so like I always wear something with pockets, and I pull the crushed red pepper out of the pocket and shh put it all on. Hey Dave, have you ever put like um like Thai chili pepper or Korean chili pepper on pizza?
+
+[37:34] Like other kinds of crushed peppers. No, but you know, now I should, because you know, I can buy giant bags of that stuff. You know what I mean? I should try other ones. What I like about the crushed red pepper is no matter how much you add, it's only gonna add a certain amount of heat.
+
+[37:50] You know what I mean? But the crushed red pepper that I buy, you know, which is not fancy at all. It's not like the calibre, it's like regular crushed red pepper. It's so dry that if you add like if you it when you cook with it, you're like, oh, this is the amount that I sprinkle on stuff, so it's fine. But you put it in a sauce and it does get hot.
+
+[38:09] If you put it in a sauce and cook it, it gets hot as it rehydrates, but it doesn't have time to rehydrate on top of your pizza. Whereas I'm wondering whether some of these other quote unquote higher grade peppers, or even if I bought like nice dried Calabrian chilies or something like that, whether they would like just level me if I did that. The amount that I put, I'd have to actually moderate, and everybody who knows me knows I detest moderation. You know what I mean? But I'll try it.
+
+[38:36] What pepper would you go for? I use Thai sometimes. Yeah? Like crushed Thai chili, yeah. Yeah, all right.
+
+[38:44] Do you know uh so going wet for dry and dry for wet, you know uh the thing that I like, but it's very hard to buy in new in in Manhattan for some reason, is the um, I've mentioned this before, the Hungarian pepper paste. The the the Hungarian, like the paprika, but like pepper paste, it's like 20% salt, 20 and and the rest fresh pepper and like nothing else, and they they like chum it up, and then it becomes a paste, and oh my god, and they have three spice levels. The ridiculous, which is you know, not ridiculous for pepper freaks, but it's quite hot. And then the medium one, which is the one that you can use as much as you can to tie and tolerate the salt, right? Because it's 20% salt.
+
+[39:28] That stuff's good. Can't buy it. Not in Manhattan. All right. Quinn, you were gonna say something about peppers?
+
+[39:34] Gonna make fun of my pepper love. If you're if you're sneaking in pepper flakes, uh-huh. Don't they still notice when you like pull it out and sprinkle it on your pizza and go like, hey, what are you doing? I may not seem it, but I'm pretty slick. You know what I mean?
+
+[39:53] I pull that stuff out. But uh get you a pair of cargo pants. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, like, you know, I don't I have actually flat packed stuff like that.
+
+[40:02] Like I put it like in zippies so that you can't see the bulge. You know what I mean? And like one time, one time I literally filled my inside jacket pocket with crushed red pepper and then just went into my jacket pocket and was like, Yeah, dude. Crushed red. Give you some balloons and somewhere else.
+
+[40:21] Yeah. Well, because I am a clown, that's for sure. Uh uh wait, but wait, well, wait. Oh, so Nastasi and I, every, you know, the longtime listeners know that we used to like we wouldn't even sneak it in. We would show up and then put a container of arugula on on our account on our table and just start just start using it.
+
+[40:39] You know what I mean? Cause why, Stas? Because they wouldn't give us the freaking stuff. Yeah. But did they have the stuff?
+
+[40:49] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Were we willing to pay for it? Yeah.
+
+[40:54] Yeah. We were even willing to pay. So the the other network was paying for our for our pizza. And we realized that maybe they were like, well, I'm not going to give those guys the arugula. Nastasi and like, we'll pay with our own money.
+
+[41:05] We'll pay you cash. Give me the freaking leaves. Give me the leaves. Like the French arugula or the baby arugula. Uh they were, I think they had the baby stuff, right, Stas?
+
+[41:14] The smaller stuff or the or the wild. Anyway, but I'll I just want like greens on my freaking pizza. I like greens on my pizza. And Nastasia also appreciates greens on her pizza. Makes you feel like.
+
+[41:26] Oh, speaking of like health, right? Health pizza. But I don't like it. I actually like the texture of it. I prefer pizza.
+
+[41:32] When I'm eating pizza at home, it's 100% of the time with greens on it. Not like 50% or like 20%. Really? 100% of the time. Wow.
+
+[41:40] I just go shump blap. I throw the greens on top of the thing, some extra oil, some salt. I'll even do it if it's dressed. As long as the dressing doesn't conflict with the pizza. I don't want a dressing to conflict with the pizza.
+
+[41:52] Like, don't give me like uh don't give me some sweet dressing. You know what I mean? Anyway. What what would be your strategy for sneaking green into stretch? I would never do that.
+
+[42:03] I would get my I would get my butt kicked so far. I would never, I would never do that. You show up with a rifle and a knife. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[42:14] You can't bring outside food into a restaurant. It's just not okay. But like Except for this time we used to do it at Roberta's. We did it Roberta's. And all the pepper flakes.
+
+[42:24] The pepper flakes doesn't count. That doesn't count. It's a dry goods. Listen, but like it you can't do it, but Nastasi and I tried, and I feel like we were within our rights. What about freeze-dried arugula?
+
+[42:37] Would that be safe? What the hell, dude? That would be garbage. Yeah, that'd be terrible. Like fucking file that under safe but garbage.
+
+[42:48] You know what I mean? Freeze-dried arugal. By the way, Rin had no rules. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[42:53] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Stas and I bringing like like uh freegan arugula in was like the least the the the least not okay thing that was happening in terms of because like God bless them.
+
+[43:07] At that time especially. It was great place early days of Roberta's anarchy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean in in in in a good way.
+
+[43:14] I mean it was very successful. You know what I mean? Like, but uh yeah, but like, you know, it's legendary. It was like a you know, a place where rules didn't exist, except for Nastasia and Dave can't have a rule. The only rule that was followed at Roberta's was Nastasi and Dave, no arugula for them.
+
+[43:28] That's funny. They're too they're too busy making their their their their freeze-dried pizzas del you know for the because you know Whole Foods sells Roberta's pizza. Yeah, no, it's it's terrible. Oh, I mean, listen, I'm not gonna fighting words. I've never I've never tried it, and I'm never gonna say anything negative about anyone's food products.
+
+[43:46] I haven't tried it. I don't know. I don't know. But you know, you have to do a lot of changes to whatever your recipe is to get it into a Whole Foods. Because Whole Foods has a lot of like really um silly requirements.
+
+[43:58] Yeah. So like really just things that I think are like, you know, I've said it on the air like a million times, like the like the quote unquote no nitrates, like all of their like label buffoonery saying that things are uncured or like the ingredients that are okay that are not good versus ingredients that they say aren't okay that are fine. It's just the whole thing's the whole just like like fiction of uh of like what is a good label or not and how that translates, it's like it it bothers me. We should do a we should do a show on it. That's not true.
+
+[44:33] I'm not trying, I'm not trying to clean up uh protecting Whole Foods at all. I've just it's one of those things like, oh, see it in the freezer session. That sounds lovely. I wish it, I hope it would be good. It's just yeah.
+
+[44:43] Go to the restaurant, eat it. Uh yeah, to go to the restaurant and eat it. But also, you know, people gotta make money, not just in a restaurant, you know, people gotta make money. Uh all right. Uh oh, by the way, last week, last week, we before that, I did a uh what's it called?
+
+[44:57] A uh talk at the uh Kampari Academy, and you'll never guess who was there. Ready? Okay. Josh Sieberg from Norfolk, Virginia, right? Who uh I think his current thing that he's repping is the model citizen cocktail, like a pop up that he does uh, you know, repeatedly.
+
+[45:15] Uh came with his crew, right? Uh to Kampari. He's the guy with the spinzall tattoo. Nice. So I got a picture of me with the all I do is spin, spin, spin no matter what.
+
+[45:29] I gotta post that. I gotta post that on the social media. But I was pretty damn excited. Yeah. Speaking of social media, when did you stop tasting the geosman, Dave?
+
+[45:41] So what Quinn is referring to is uh so a while ago I bought so geosmin is everybody knows nostasia and I love the flavor of dirty, dirty beets, right, Staz? Yeah. Yeah. Love it. If you replace love with hate, that'll be that'll be accurate.
+
+[45:59] I actually like beets in limited quantity. And it's my wife loves beets, so I cook beets. I like beets fine. What do you the chiogas aren't as dirty tasting, right? The what?
+
+[46:10] The chioga. How do you pronounce it? Chioga? I don't know. The the the yellow with the little lines in it.
+
+[46:16] How do you pronounce those beets? The badger flames. I don't know. I don't know. But yeah, nothing.
+
+[46:21] There's regular golden beets. That's what I call them. But they don't they're not as dirty, right? No, yeah. Not as dirty.
+
+[46:27] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, so like the aroma of that dirt is uh is a chemical called geosmin, right? And it's uh it's little so what happens is in soil there's bacteria, it rains, the bacteria make the geosmin, and that's what smells like that, like just wet.
+
+[46:44] Or if you were like when you're doing like potting plants, if you ever potted a plant and you put the water on the dirt and then you bring the dirt up to your nose, that flavor, that aroma, that's geosmin. Now, uh Ariel was laughing. Uh Ariel Johnson was uh, you know, friend of the show, uh flavor chemist, uh, you know, or yeah, organic PhD, uh organic chemistry PhD. Um she she was telling me what the flavor, what the taste threshold of Josmin is. So I have I bought one percent, one percent Jasmin from a perfumery warehouse.
+
+[47:18] And she did the calculations, and according to her calculations, 10 drops from an eyedropper, which is a half of a milliliter, right? 10 drops uh from uh that bottle would be enough to give a faint but distinct dirt smell to an Olympic sized swimming pool. That's crazy. Right. So I I've I've I probably should have consulted her before before I made the drink.
+
+[47:53] So I had this idea because uh whatever, like there's so much talk about martinis and dirty martinis, and like, you know, people dirty, dirty martini, dirty martini this, dirty martini that, dirty martini flavored freaking spaghetti. Have you seen this dirty martini flavored spaghetti? Ew, no. What? Yeah, so people are like, oh, now so like like cocktails have become food and now food has become cocktails.
+
+[48:14] Yes, yes, it's a thing. Okay, but what are they doing to the pasta? What do you say about TikTok? Yeah, it's TikTok's fault. I said, is it TikTok's fault?
+
+[48:21] Yeah. Yeah, it's TikTok's fault. Yeah, everything. Yeah. Whereas, whereas you could just say, uh, I'm gonna put some olives in my pasta, and you'd be like, fine.
+
+[48:30] And maybe I'll the vodka, whatever. Or, you know, but like wait, wait, what are they doing with the pasta? I don't know. They're calling it a dirty martini pasta. It's just it's just it's it's it's it's just another one of these things where someone came up with a good title.
+
+[48:45] Someone's like, I like dirty martinis, right? And then they're like, I don't know. I like dirty martini pasta now. And it's just one of these things that happened. Anyways, so the other thing happens the other way.
+
+[48:54] So I I'm so sick of hearing about the dirty martini. And by the way, right, we need to find something to do with all of our olives, right? So, like you can't like maybe someone has a source where they can just buy brine. I I never had a source where I could buy brine. So we would like have like jars and jars of olives left over from the dirty martini land, and we don't have Tabanata on the menu.
+
+[49:14] So, what are we gonna do? You know what I mean? Anyhow. So you girlish the drink? You need more brine than exists.
+
+[49:22] Like the like the people who want dirty martini, they never even say dirty. They're like filthy. Make it filthy. And they just want basically, they want like a pickleback, but with olive brine. You know what I mean?
+
+[49:34] And you're like, yeah I can't just buy the brine. Maybe you can. Okay, maybe you can just buy the brine. Anyway. So I was so sick of hearing about the dirty martinis that I was like, yo, dirt martini.
+
+[49:43] I'm gonna make a dirt martini. And like um, so one of the very famous early, you know, uh modern dishes in the early 2000s was the Rocas, El Calar Ken Roco, when they hooked up their rotary evaporator. They threw dirt from outside, you know, from the forest, not from the parking lot, but from the forest into the thing, and they they rode ovappt and it had characteristic kind of Jasmine notes in it, and they put that on oysters. And so I was like, eh, the hell with that. So I I I finally made it.
+
+[50:10] I talked about this a little bit last week, but I I finally made it. I put in eight drops. Eight drops. So like basically Olympic swimming pool size, eight drops into a single drink. Boop, boop, boop.
+
+[50:24] And as I was doing it, I was just counting. I was like, boop, boop, boop. The smell was like like like everything smells like dirt now. Right. So my brother in law Travis, because we were working on the on the book, right?
+
+[50:36] So I did it like I was like, hey, you have a couple minutes of filming stuff. So like uh he he was sitting there and in his face when I was doing it, he was like, oh, because he could smell it hit. I'm stirring it, and then that sip, I tasted it for hours. Hours, hours. It wasn't as bad as the time that I got straight um uh methylanthrenolate on my lips.
+
+[51:00] So that's the that's fake Concord grape. So uh I would I was working on the flavor machine at the at the Museum of Food and Drink, which by the way, we're we're doing the flavor exhibition again. It's gonna come up in I'm I think I think it's been pushed to January, I think, beginning of January at the Empire Stores, which is the timeout market in uh in Brooklyn in Dumbo on the second floor. We're gonna bring back the smell synth. We're gonna bring back, I'm building little flavor pumps for it uh so that you can mean me.
+
+[51:29] It's got a peristaltic pump, and that's the noise it makes me, and you like can taste the the things. So like it's gonna be a lot of fun. But uh, I don't know where I was going with this. Oh, yeah. So like the smell synth was blocked up, right?
+
+[51:41] And what and the the the tube that was blocked was methylanthrenylate. So, like, you know, whatever. I old school siphon master, you know. Like, I've never stolen gasoline from someone's car via siphon that you know of. So like I sit there and I put my mouth on the tube, right?
+
+[51:57] And straight methyl anthrenylate in my mouth, and I could not taste Concord grape flavor. I mean, not like I couldn't taste it because uh I mean, like I literally could not sense it anymore. I'd blown out my ability to sense methylanthrenylate for like nine months. It's back now because I just made Concord grapes. Stas, you'd be jealous.
+
+[52:17] I did the I did the Concord Grape Crush. You know, I know you like that. That's one of the things you actually love it, yeah. Yeah. That's one of the things we have on the East Coast.
+
+[52:24] Is there anything else on the East Coast that you like other than Concord Grapes? No, I think that's the one thing I really yeah, that's the one thing I've missed in. Yeah. I was at the farmer's market, and it's late season. You know how you you know how you guys know how you can tell if the Concord grapes are good?
+
+[52:40] Bees. Ding ding ding. Bees. Covered in bees. Covered in bees.
+
+[52:47] So, you know, I was like, I made the guy put them in a bag and then just sit there and tap the bag till most of the bees left. Another trick you can do is when you get home, like tie the bag off and like put it in the fridge and get the bee really cold before you like try to get the bees out. But man, yeah, bees. But like if if the if there's not bees in covering the grapes, then they're not right. They're not yeah, you know, just not right.
+
+[53:12] They don't have the right aroma. You know what I mean? Like Concord Grape is like an aroma that is just So good. So good. So good.
+
+[53:22] So the technique I do with the Concorde Grape, uh, you know, that Nastasa and I used to do bec like we used to use the uh wet grinder, remember Stas, what a pain in the behind that was yeah, that was so bad. Yeah. So the what we would set so the wet grinder is, you know, like uh for Idley and whatnot, or for chocolate, is like two stones that rotate on another stone, but we would set the stone high enough that it wouldn't crush the seeds. The problem with Concord grapes is they're one of the like, first of all, you know you can't buy a grapes with seeds in the supermarket anymore. Did you know that?
+
+[53:53] I didn't, but yeah. You can't check out you can't do it. Like even they have these things like tomcords, which are stuff bull crap, right? They're not a concord. Oh god, I hate those so much.
+
+[54:02] Yeah. Yeah. It's like it's like, why pretend? You know what I mean? It's like people don't like seeds.
+
+[54:09] Yeah, I know, but like it like if a if a Concorde is a Ferrari, a Tom cord is like that little fiberglass toy that kids play with that has like a like a like a sewing machine engine in it that goes around. You know what I mean? It's like not the same product. You know? Uh and why would you cross it with like I like first of all, I enjoy eating Thompson's like white seedless green grapes.
+
+[54:29] They're fine, but they're not exactly special. You know what I mean? So why would you call it Tomcord? Why would you reference like a known bland grape as, you know, anyway, whatever. So the problem with concords is the seeds get real bitter.
+
+[54:49] So uh we would smash them, but we would raise the stone so that the seeds wouldn't get crushed. So I'm I keep on trying to work on good ways to get the flavor out of the concords. This time, so usually what I do with the Concords is we'll hand smash them, like to mimic like stomping them almost with feet. We'll let it sit on the skins a while, then we'll press it. Then I'll re-wet the skins with whatever liquor I'm using to get the rest of the kind of like skin notes and like all of that kind of aroma out of the concords, and then what's left over has almost no flavor left.
+
+[55:19] And we would press it. We you'd either squeeze it in a nut milk bag, like a like a 120 micron or bag, squeeze it real hard if you didn't have a press, or we would put it in a press. This time I just pressed them straight without doing a pre-crush, and the juice that came out was remarkably clear. Then I did the the remoyage with the with the liquor, and it was amazing. Stas, you would have loved it.
+
+[55:40] You would have loved it. I did it with the Blanche Armagnac this time. You would loved it. And then uh, but then I tried also juicing some in my auger juicer, which I love for everything else, and it crushed the seeds on the second go around. So I put I had to put it want to put it through twice to get the I wanted to, I juiced it once, then put the juice back on the skins to soak up that kind of skin contact action, then put it through again, and I got seed note.
+
+[56:06] I was like, nope. Crushing. It's the one thing left, that and when you do like uh bread infusions where crushing is still the best way. I haven't everything else I found ways around that I like as well or better than the press, but those two things, press is the way to go. Yeah.
+
+[56:24] Um someone asked last week, I believe it was uh Steven, uh, about uh my ginger clarification technique and whether I'd ever done my turmeric gallongal uh, you know, whatever with it. And yeah, so I finally decided to put turmeric in my juicer, and it stained the crap out of it. Luckily, my juicer is kind of charcoal colored. So like it's like a now it's like a yellow charcoal color instead of like, but oh my god, was it delicious? I did I did um one part ginger, 0.75 parts turmeric, and 0.5 parts galongal.
+
+[57:04] Here's a son of a gun. So it used to be you could, it was relatively easy in Manhattan to get fresh uh both turmeric and galongal. Like uh, you know, I think even Whole Foods had the turmeric, although a lot of the Whole Foods turmeric, a lot of the turmeric you find, if your turmeric looks yellow and not red, don't buy it. It doesn't have like it's not it's not as good. You know what I mean?
+
+[57:24] Uh so but no one now has fresh galangle anymore. Like they they they wasn't selling, so it was rotting. So do all specialty still has some down in on six uh sixth and first, right? But uh everyone now is pushing frozen's calustine's pushing frozen and even frozen turmeric. They weren't carrying the fresh turmeric.
+
+[57:45] They were like, here, buy frozen them. And do you know what frozen turmeric and galangol? They feel wrong. They uh they feel wrong. They tasted fine, because that's what I had to juice for this test.
+
+[57:55] So I juiced them all. But if you're gonna do something like that, I recommend get this. So I juiced the turmeric, I juice the galangle, and then I juice the ginger afterwards, put it in. And I juiced two apples through it, and they were turmeric. They had enough turmeric in them to be delicious.
+
+[58:11] But yes, uh, I didn't do the magnesium carbonate on it, uh, Steven. I need to come up with a new thing. The magnesium carbonate, it's too basic, it's a pain in the butt. I've been trying titanium dioxide, I've been trying k uh kaolin, I've been trying anything other than the magnesium carbonate, but uh more on more on that, I guess, next week. Uh Jonathan wants to know I have a food safety question, I'm struggling to find accurate advice on.
+
+[58:31] I'm starting the process of preparing a hot sauce to sell commercially in the UK, but I'm trying to ensure that the sauce is shelf stable. I'll be preparing the sauce at home and kitchen for local sale at farmers markets, and do not have much space or professional equipment. However, I'm not opposed to purchasing uh if necessary. Now, uh you correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume that traditional pH meter is not going to work accurately in the sauce because there's a lot of oil, given that it's roughly one-third oil-based. So the technique that you you use is you char the vegetables in a cast iron pan until they're black and soft.
+
+[58:56] You then blend all that stuff and slowly emulsify it into the vet uh in uh into the vegetable oil to create an emulsion. Then you add the salt and vinegar and blend briefly to combine. So what I would say is this um oil and garlic you're worried about, obviously, because of uh botulism. But what I would do is I would just take your water basis stuff. So the 120 grams of jalapenos, the 120 grams of white onion, and 20 grams of garlic is 250 grams of stuff that you need to worry about.
+
+[59:20] You then have 130 grams of sunflower oil, which aren't causing their own problem, other than they exclude air, right? You're then adding two tablespoons of white vinegar. You should give me that in milliliters, right? And the and the the uh what's it called, the acidity of it, and 1.5 teaspoons of salt. You should really say how much that weighs, like nine grams.
+
+[59:36] Let's assume it's nine grams, right? So that's about 3.6% salt. That's a lot of salt. That's good. That works in your favor, 3% on the liquid uh basis.
+
+[59:44] So what I would do is I would make your whole recipe without the oil and test a pH. You're gonna want in order to hot pack it, you know, to to pack it and not have to worry about botulism, you're gonna need to hit about a pH of 4.6. So test that that liquid, make sure that it's pH 4.6. Then you know that it's gonna be pH 4.6 when you when you do your emulsion. I would also add the vinegar and the salt before you do the emulsion, just so that I don't know why you wouldn't do it that way, but I would definitely do it that way.
+
+[1:00:10] If you wanted to actually be shelf stable, I would get your pH down to about 3.5, right? But I am not an expert in this. Uh, you're gonna take it to a local authority and have them test it for bacteriological safety, make your okay, but uh, it should be okay. I want recommendations for uh Ilya uh Livviak, who's coming into New York City uh for 3.5 days pretty soon. We gotta give them some good recommendations for what to do in our fine city, cooking issues, and
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you alive from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, and New Stand Studios. Joined as usual with John behind me. How are you doing, John? Doing great, thanks.
+
+[0:21] Yeah? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Good.
+
+[0:23] Windy out there. Uh yeah, I guess. I didn't really notice it too much on my walk, but yeah. I saw anything. I saw an angry looking guy on the sidewalk, and then one of those like newspaper McGillas just started like rolling down the street, and I thought he kicked it, but I think it was the wind.
+
+[0:35] Yeah, probably the wind. Yeah. Rocking the panels, Joe Hazen. How you doing? I'm doing very well, man.
+
+[0:40] Full house. Love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh over there in uh California, we got uh, I believe Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing, Stas?
+
+[0:49] Do we have Nestasia? Yeah, she's there somewhere. Yeah, she's coming on. How you doing? Everything good?
+
+[0:54] Yes, everything's good. Yeah. Anything interesting in the uh land of uh Los Angeles. Uh no. Jack and I will talk about it next week.
+
+[1:03] Jack's not on today. Oh, he's not on. Is he in transit from uh the upper part of the coast to the lower part of the coast? He's engineering another podcast. All right.
+
+[1:13] Okay. All right. And then uh from his Heidi Hole up in the upper upper left, Quinn, how you doing? Hey, I'm doing all right. Yeah?
+
+[1:20] Good, good. And today's special guest is Robert Simonson, uh, who I've known for whom I've known. Is whom is dead, right? Uh don't uh don't put don't put me on the spot here. I don't know.
+
+[1:35] I'm whom. I mean, like when you write, do you whom? Wait, you speak do you whom? Uh I I I do. I don't do it so much when I write because it is generally regarded as pretentious, even if it is correct these days.
+
+[1:46] So, like so you're the reverse. You do it when you speak, but not when you write. Because you're like, I want to be a person, but then when I'm writing, I don't want people to think I'm a freak of stuck up. Like that? I think that that's the definition of most writers.
+
+[1:59] They want to be a person, but then when they write, they want to be thought of as another person. All right. Okay. So you're two people at all times. All right.
+
+[2:05] Well, you're on the show today because you have uh a new book that actually I I worked the uh launch party. That's right. You were at the launch party. We had a lovely uh event at Porchlight, a bar here on what is that, 11th Avenue in uh Manhattan. And they do a great job.
+
+[2:18] And I managed to uh I was very honored. I got you behind the bar and you made drinks for an hour. Yeah, yeah. So that bar was uh so he was head bartender at Booker and Dax at the time, Nick Bennett. Nick Bennett was like, uh, hey Dave, uh like I think he thought I was gonna be mad because there's a whole generation of uh like hospitality people who got mad at their at their crew when they left to go do a new job.
+
+[2:43] Uh huh. That's like a thing. Yeah, that happens. Yeah. Uh and so like I think he was nervous.
+
+[2:48] He comes up, he's like, Dave, he's like, um, he recently left Porch Light because he's uh he's doing the dad thing now, God bless. Yeah, he was there seven, eight years, long time. Yeah. So when he left Booker and Dax, he was like, Dave, uh, I gotta um offered a job to start my own because he thought I was gonna be mad. I was like, that's the best thing I've ever heard.
+
+[3:05] Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? I was like, I'm so proud. You know what I mean? Like that because to me, the greatest thing you can do is have somebody that's working with you be phenomenally successful.
+
+[3:14] Yeah, I know, but you may be a rarity in bosses in that case. I mean, I think I think a lot of other ones do get mad, you know, when people that they've trained from the ground up take off and you know do their own thing. Well, he was his own person. He came from a Morie Margot before he was at Booker and Dax. I mean, remember remember Amory Margot used to be tiny.
+
+[3:31] Mm-hmm. I mean, it still is tiny, but it still says tiny, but the original one is closing at the end of the year. Oh, really? But super tiny. And it was also an incubator for a lot of like uh cool.
+
+[3:40] So many. Yeah. So many bartenders. Yeah. There's a lot of incubator bars.
+
+[3:43] I was uh very proud that Booker and Dacks was an incubator bar. Yeah. I that was where I first met Nick. I didn't I did not meet Nick at Amory Margo. I met her at Booker and Dacks.
+
+[3:44] Yeah. Yeah. Also from Amori Margo. We had Southern Teague behind the stick for a while. Mm-hmm.
+
+[3:56] He's still there. He's still there. And he's there at the bigger Amori Margo. Oh what? Booker and Dex.
+
+[4:01] That's right. I always forget that. He was one of the openers of Booker and Dax. He already was at it doing Amori Margot, but he just wanted to catch the thing. He used to be How long did he stay at Booker and Dax?
+
+[4:10] Year or two? Two years? Okay. He uh, you know, yeah, you always know that uh you've worked with Southern Teague because he uses ridiculously long stirring spoons. Like absurdly long stirring spoons, like like poke your guest in the eye long.
+
+[4:26] And I don't know whether he used to like I don't know what, like whether he was like reaching across the bar to tap people on the forehead. I don't know what you're gonna do with such a long spoon. So it was one of the bartenders, one of the kind of bartenders who brings their own equipment to the job. Well, look, it was early days at Booker Index, and you know, I made everyone there was a huge argument. I made everyone stirring tins because you know I believe in stirring in in tins, but a lot of them wanted, and I think that one I kind of won, although they weren't too happy with me, but I let people use their own spoons because I mean we provided spoons.
+
+[4:55] Sure. I mean, and uh I think we we let people use their own jiggers. Yeah because really you we want people to be fast. I mean, nowadays, you know, in the in the style of like uh more like an Eric Castro's theory, I'm a believer in all bar stations identical, not even mere images of each other, completely identical. And the reason being that it allows you to support it look if it's a if it's one bartender a shift, set it up however you want.
+
+[5:23] You know, unless the bar back's ever gonna have to step in and make drinks. Right. But in if if there's two bartenders are gonna support each other, it's very helpful to have one bartender be able to just go to the other person's station and go. It's not like in a kitchen like this Joker behind me, where like, you know, you have your own station and you set it up. No one's gonna come in and run your station unless something horrible happens.
+
+[5:43] You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[5:46] When I'm in a bar, you're supposed to be like boop, and then move to the next boop. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Well, I think things have changed probably. A lot of bars are more like that in the early days and the aughts in the early 2010s.
+
+[5:57] Everyone was so individualistic and they had this innate faith in their own tools as being better than the other guys' tools or it's gonna make a better drink. But I think we'd probably move past that. Yeah. Yeah. Poor poor crafts person blames their blames their tools for the low quality of the drink.
+
+[6:13] Right. Yeah. Uh what's funny about that is that um this is maybe a little known. Well, let's push the book first. So uh the new book out is the encyclopedia of cocktails.
+
+[6:24] That's right. Uh The People, Bars, and drinks with more than a hundred recipes. Yeah, and you're one of the people who are in there. Yeah, thank uh so like is it like how more than a hundred or is it like a hundred and one, or did you get like a hundred and three? I think it's like a hundred and three, a hundred and four.
+
+[6:39] Yeah, that's better. Yeah. Like a hundred and one is like, come on, dude. You know, yeah. Well, then you're just being purposefully random.
+
+[6:45] Yeah, you know, it's like there's no mean, there's no logic to it. If it's 104, if it's also if it's an odd number, you're like, I want it to be an odd number. So like if it's 104, you're like, well, I just came up with the recipes I was gonna come up with, and it happened to be over a hundred. You know? Well, I knew that the publisher wanted more than a hundred, so I had that number to work with, but beyond that, I could go as far as I wanted to.
+
+[7:04] The more recipes, the better, as far as they were concerned. Freaking 10 speed. How are they to deal with? They're like so big. I mean, like, like, you know, in are they as big in they're as big in cocktails as they are in cooking, right?
+
+[7:14] Like they for a while they owned like a everything. They did so much work. I think they still own it, pretty much. Uh I yeah, no, they're great to work for. Um their sister imprint is Clarkson Potter.
+
+[7:24] Clarkson Potter is more food. 10 speed, I think, in the public's mind is cocktails and spirits. And uh But they they used to do wing weird winged food stuff like I believe 10 didn't 10 speed do the original uh uh bread builder's book, the this uh Alan's whatever his name is uh Scott Wang, whatever it was, the original how to build your own like open hearth bread. They may have. 10 Speed has a weird uh history.
+
+[7:49] It goes back a long way. It was an Emeryville, uh little independent uh publishing imprint. Then they made a lot of money. They published that book, What Color is your parachute? Remember that?
+
+[7:58] Oh my god, yeah. Yeah, but and and then it just got the color of flaming. Yeah. Like on fire and like falling through the sky. Like that's the color of our parachute, right, Nastasia?
+
+[8:09] Yeah. Flaming. Yeah. Yeah. You're like you're like, oh, let me hit the ground at a reasonable speed before the parachute burns up and then don't let it light me on fire.
+
+[8:17] I hope never to catch on fire again, by the way, Robert. Yeah, that would be bad. Once you've caught on fire at once, you can kind of check it off the list. Are you talking about your your art experiment way back when you were doing the George and the Dragon? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[8:30] Yeah, the one like where your wife said, if you ever do that again, I'm gonna divorce you. That one, yes. Okay. Yeah, yeah. But uh in general, uh don't do that.
+
+[8:39] Anyway, so you're saying uh they started as a smaller. But I think about 10 years ago, I mean, they really uh got into the cocktail thing before a lot of the other publishers realized it was a thing, and you know that new books were needed. And uh they were on the ground floor with that. And they've they've done a lot um of the important cocktail books over the last 15 years. Nice.
+
+[8:57] Uh if you are listening on Patreon, you can call in your questions to Robert Simonson at 917-4101507. That's 917-410-1507. Uh, and uh either John or Quinn, tell them uh how to be a Patreon and why they want to do that. Patreon.com slash cooking issues. You got a bunch of different awesome membership levels, membership levels.
+
+[9:16] Um you get access to the Discord with a whole community of listeners to ask awesome questions, really engaging community. And you also get discounts at Kitchen Arts and Letters for books like this one. Yes. The Encyclopedia of Cocktails is on our list. We typically, whenever we get an author on, we as long as Kitchen Arts and Letters carries them, which they typically always do.
+
+[9:37] We uh what's that? Do you have a kitchen you have a Kitchen Arts and Letters hat? Oh, that's cool. Holy smokes. That's a that is a fantastic shop.
+
+[9:45] Yeah, that's a great museum. It's the best. Do you go in there and sign books when you do the thing? I do. I haven't done it for this book yet, but usually they call me up and you know, you you've been there, it's the tiniest place, you know.
+
+[9:54] And so I mean, but a lot of books. Yeah, yeah. So when uh when liquid intelligence came out, I went, I I came up with a a new recipe. I come up with a new recipe uh for milk syrup. Uh and uh that's where you you you make a 50-50, like a one-to-one with milk, and then you add uh citric acid and it kind of pre-breaks, so it gets like almost a yogurt y texture, but then when you shake with it, it doesn't break ever.
+
+[10:21] Like it doesn't curd up, it stays completely okay, but it's not yogurt-y tasting, it's milk syrup. You can do the same with cream, you could do cream syrup, you could do milk syrup, so like my grasshopper variant is cream syrup and I you know, milk syrup and aparol is good, even though it looks like Pepto Bismol looks. I mean. Like, do you like Pepto Bismol look? Uh no.
+
+[10:38] Wait, is it Pepto Bismol or milk and magnesia that's totally pink or both? I think both. Both. Yeah. Both.
+
+[10:42] I think both. Both. Yeah. Yeah. So we didn't.
+
+[10:44] I didn't call the drink, I didn't call the drink Pepto Bismol. No, that would not sell. Yeah. Because I figured, yeah. So I called it Soft Sell because the entire time I was making it, I was singing Tainted Love to Myself over and over and over.
+
+[11:00] Nice. Well, that's a time honor tradition of uh naming drinks after songs. Barthes, you would love to do that. I did not know this. What?
+
+[11:07] The paper plane named after the song. Like uh Yes, which was actually called Paper Planes. The song, yeah. Yeah. By what is it?
+
+[11:14] M I A? I don't know whether it's me or M I A. I always say M I A. What am I supposed to say, folks? Am I remember?
+
+[11:19] Doesn't she live in Queens? No idea. It's not my group. You have to ask Sam Ross. He's the guy who's a good thing.
+
+[11:25] It's a great song. Is it? I have never actually listened to it. I've just drunk the drunk drink. Wait, wait.
+
+[11:29] Well, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. You call out, you give me this great fact. Don't you you have a phone, I can see it. You've never listened to the song. I may have.
+
+[11:39] I don't know. It's not really important. It's important to find out why. It's got like a gun, it's got a gunshot and a cash register sound. I am a name.
+
+[11:50] It is catchy. If a cocktail has a curious name, it's my job as a reporter to ask, you know, why did you name it that? Because there's always a story behind it. But not to listen to the song. I mean, it's it's only like it's only like three minutes of your life, Robert.
+
+[12:03] You couldn't freaking. You couldn't Is this the one that's the uh the the clash cover? Oh, is it? Is that what it's sampled? All I need is a little bit of.
+
+[12:12] I promise I'll listen to it directly after this show. Yeah. Yeah. Take a mile day. It's a great song.
+
+[12:18] Anyway, um I don't remember the lyrics, but whenever it comes on, I dance like a mother. Right? Like a mother. Stas, you like that song? I don't know if I know it.
+
+[12:28] I'd have to hear it. There seems to be a lot of confusion on this song. Oh my gosh. So I was working on uh speaking of songs. I was working on uh infusions for the you know the redo of the book, Should I Ever Get It Done?
+
+[12:40] I was doing and I I did like a 24 infusions in little mason jars, and I stacked them up, and then what song could I knock out of my head? Ball of Confusion, because I was like, wall of infusion, bum, bum, bum. That's a great song, right? That's what the world is today. Yeah, late temptations.
+
+[12:58] Do you like that? Do you like the late temptations? Uh yeah, yeah. They had to do something to keep their act fresh. And so they got into uh, you know, the psychedelic stuff.
+
+[13:04] I think they put out some good songs. Cloud nine. Oh got into psychedelic shack is like the whole thing is amazing. I love that whole like superstar. I like that stuff better than the old temptations.
+
+[13:18] Than the old temptations, the the old school Motown temptations. I mean, well, they're still Motown. What do you think about like the early 70s temptations with the very, very long songs? You know, Papa's Rolling Stone. That's a great tune.
+
+[13:30] That's my favorite. That is my favorite temptation song. And the long version with the like the two minute intro. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, you know what?
+
+[13:37] But it's not good for bars. No. Bar music is very important. I I discovered something recently. I had this idea, somebody mentioned it to me.
+
+[13:45] You know what you never hear in bars, cocktail bars? The Beatles. Ever. Well, unless Nastasi is putting on Rocky the Squirrel or whatever it is that she actually likes. She says she loves the Beatles, but she actually likes whatever.
+
+[13:56] I don't listen to the Beatles, but I do agree. It's not exactly bar music. Well, it's also because of Ascap and BMI. You're playing those, you know. Yeah, but nobody actually follows those rules.
+
+[14:05] Oh, I think a lot of people pay those. I hear a lot of Rolling Stones. That's true. That's true. Led Zeppelin, I guess you would too.
+
+[14:11] Nastasi, what's the actual Beatles song that you say that you really like? I'm not going into this at all. Okay. Let's get back to the first one. What is this?
+
+[14:19] The third rail? Beatles? Something like that. I don't know. I don't know what it I can never tell us.
+
+[14:22] I never know, I never know. Um I never know. Although I'll give you, I will give you, what will I give you? I will give you $50 if you can name Nastasia's favorite slow burn song. Of all songs?
+
+[14:35] Slowburn intro. Slow, but you mean like a long intro before you even get to the lyrics? Before you get to the main part. Uh Eminence Front by the Who? No, no, no.
+
+[14:47] Uh no, but a British a British person. Uh the Phil Collins. What's the Phil Collins song styles? I always forget the name of it. That's uh Oh no, that's not my favorite slow burn.
+
+[14:56] I just like the video. You like the video because you don't think he's ever gonna make it to the drum kit. Yeah, it's um what the hell is that? Is that I can feel he feel you coming in the air and is the air tonight? But he comes in and he has to like get all the way up to the drum kit and you're like, he's not gonna make it, he's so small.
+
+[15:15] Yeah, and he makes it. He makes it every time. That's the advantage of it already having happened. You know that thing that Phil Collins does every New Year's Eve? Where he tells you when to start that song so that the drum thing kicks in at midnight.
+
+[15:27] He really does that. He does it every year. I like that. It's probably the best thing Phil Collins does. Really?
+
+[15:32] Yeah, that thing every year. I used to uh I used to time so um my favorite ministry song of all time is obviously Jesus Built My Hot Rod. And obviously. Yeah, red line white line version. And it's uh it's the version that came out on the EP that has the just engine on the cover.
+
+[15:48] And it's so much better than the album version than a Psalm 69 version, like the best. And so I used to be deathly afraid of flying, such that I would have to like load myself with uh a Valium to do it. Mm-hmm. But I would always time that song so that when it busted from the intro into the plane was actually on the runway taking off, so I can still to this day feel the airplane taking off when that song plays, which is amazing. It's amazing to link in your mind a song with a physical feeling and then be able to refeel the feeling every time you hear the song.
+
+[16:18] Awesome. Drag racing, drag racing. There's no use trying to talk. No human sound can stand up to this loud enough to knock you down. It's a great song.
+
+[16:29] Burnout. Like that, like I I don't know. Did you grow up with that kind of ministry? No. No?
+
+[16:34] No. No. I did. It's a terrible thing to taste is a great record. Oh my gosh.
+
+[16:38] With that crazy album cover with uh the skull on it. Yeah. You know what? What happened to him? I mean, I know obviously a lot of things happened to him, but like the new min the new ministry stuff is just so I can't.
+
+[16:49] I can't. I can't. Anyway. He's got a lot of guns, that guy. Oh yeah?
+
+[16:53] Oh yeah. We tried to do an interview with him in Texas, and he has like told us to get off his property. You set up an interview with him? Yep. And he's like, off my property.
+
+[17:03] Exactly. Oh my God. So crazy. All right. All right.
+
+[17:07] So uh this is what, the 89th cocktail book you've written? It must feel that way. Um, no, it's the seventh. Seven. But I I uh in as many as I am annoyingly productive.
+
+[17:19] I realize that. Well, how what makes you like for those who Okay, so first of all, I think I like a little of the self self-deprecation here. Under the under the uh handle, uh sorry, the the heading cocktail writer, you say something like, you know, like uh from a bunch of dilettants and weasels or something. I'm paraphrasing. But basically you mean the entry for cocktail writer?
+
+[17:38] Yeah. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, isn't that what you wrote? Well, yeah, I mean, it used to be um it wasn't a profession. It uh previously a hobby of the drinking dilettante.
+
+[17:47] That's correct. Yeah. Yeah, people, this wasn't a job. I mean, there we we you and I know a lot of people for whom this is a job, a full-time job now, including myself. But back then it was just like a hobby.
+
+[17:59] You know, you like to drink, and so you might as well write about it, you know, people like Charles Baker and I don't know, Lucius Bebe, you know. They wrote about other things as well, but they wrote about cocktails from time to time. And as far as newspapers were concerned, it was just like a general assignment reporter was sometimes sent to a bar and said, you know, go interview the bartender and see what people are drinking. Right, because you used to write other stuff from the time for the times, not just a lot of people. Yeah, I wrote I wrote mainly theater stuff, and I did some stuff for the uh late lamented city section.
+
+[18:24] I did some travel things. But they don't have the city section anymore? No, no. That was a sad day. Well, what's been gone for like 10 years?
+
+[18:31] Do we not have the city anymore? I haven't gotten the print paper in a long time. I think that just falls into Metro. Uh City section actually did only existed for about 10 years. Uh yeah.
+
+[18:40] It was kind of like uh micro metro, you know, hyper hyper metro. Speaking of this, speaking of the city, I was thinking about this on the way over here, biking over here. Like, we are the only city I know of that is so conceited, has its head so far up its own behind that it just makes its own traffic rules and its own traffic signals. Like for those of you that don't come to New York, New York is the only place that you can't turn right on a red, right? Oh, that's true.
+
+[19:05] Yeah. And I love to turn right on a red. Yeah, well, but here's the fun thing, right? So there's no signs anywhere in New York City saying that you can't turn right on a red. So if you if you rent a car, if you fly into one of our fine, fine airports.
+
+[19:20] Sarcasm. Yeah. Uh, you know, and you you somehow you rent a car and you drive in in New York, you're gonna get a ticket. Because there's nowhere does it say No right on red. No right on red.
+
+[19:31] You just have to know it. You have to know it. And it's like uh that's how you know a New York City driver, someone who only drives in New York City, doesn't have like an out-of-state place or anything like this, they're only a New York City driver, and they show up in your fair town wherever you live. They're the ones who are driving so aggressively that you can't believe it, but then they're sitting there at the red light with their blinker on waiting to turn. You're like, what is it?
+
+[19:51] Right and then you beep at them and they're like and they peel out a thousand miles an hour when they realize they're allowed to make that right turn on red. Yeah, that happens to me all the time. Happens to my wife too. We go to other we travel a lot, we go to other states, we forget in most other states you can turn right on red, and then people, somebody behind us is always honking at us. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[20:09] And you're like, I'm the aggressive one. Yeah. Yeah. I uh I'm from Wisconsin. Wisconsin has great rules.
+
+[20:15] You can turn right on red and you can do a U-turn anywhere. Anywhere. Anywhere. Oh, that would be mayhem here. Mayhem.
+
+[20:21] Uh another one I saw, there's a a random like parking thing. I mean, not parking up, uh traffic sign, but maybe they have it elsewhere. You guys tell me it's just a white line. Mm-hmm. Have you ever seen this anywhere else other than New York?
+
+[20:33] It's just a white line. You don't get to make up your own traffic signals. It's just a white line, and I think it means bus only. There's no sign that says, hey, by the way, this traffic signal you've never seen before in your life that now you're supposed to obey, it means bus only. You ever gotten a ticket for a you went through in a bus lane and you didn't know it?
+
+[20:51] No, it happens all the time. I live here though. Like I know what a you know. They're invisible bus lanes all over the city, and they'll give you tickets. I like that.
+
+[20:57] Yeah. Look, this whole place is a money-making racket. You know that the no turn on red is only in the city, the rest of New York State, you can turn on the right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I grew up around Westchester.
+
+[21:07] Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it's just here. And then and you know, like I guess I they don't tell you about it.
+
+[21:12] No, no, well, ignorance of the law is no excuse. Right. Even if it's even if it's random and it goes against everywhere else. Like we are like, you know, you'd expect, like, you know, someone named Cletus to pull you over and give you like it's like some sort of old school thing. But here we are in New York.
+
+[21:27] Yeah. I'm with you. I'm with you. Somebody should run for mayor on that platform. No good.
+
+[21:31] I will change the no-bright turn on red. You know what's the only other thing that we do here as New Yorkers I've noticed is jaywalk. Everywhere else you go, nobody jaywalks. And I was just on the way here this morning. I did it and there were some tourists waiting, there were no cars coming.
+
+[21:43] It's like, why is he doing that? That's illegal. They said that to you? Well, they I heard them, the like mom say that to the doctor. Exactly.
+
+[21:51] Yeah. We're busy people. We have places to go. Oh my god. Oh my god.
+
+[21:55] I'll never forget like the first time I went to Savannah, Georgia. Well, in fact, the only time, because I never went back. But like uh I went to Savannah, Georgia, and I just stepped off the street and all the cars were like, what? And they stopped. I'm like, I'm just getting ready to walk, dudes.
+
+[22:09] Mm-hmm. No, no, that's how you you can tell New Yorkers anyway, because they're they're not content to stay on the curb. Just one foot into the street, you know, you got that slight advantage, so you have to take it. I'm gonna make a pitch that it's polite because it's letting someone walk on the sidewalk is its own form of whatever. So you're like the the like getting off the curb just into the street is like an exit lane to get out, but you're not in the way of the person who's actually crossing the other way where they they have the light.
+
+[22:35] It's polite. Uh-huh. Yeah. Well, I think uh most people sort of feel that we don't even own the sidewalk anymore in New York, so we may as well take some of the road back. Yeah.
+
+[22:44] Yeah. Yeah. Uh but people who step into the bike lane, oh my God. Yeah, you're taking your life in your hands. Especially if I'm in that bike lane.
+
+[22:52] Oh my god. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's right. You bite you biked over here.
+
+[22:56] Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. Hey, uh, when you're on your bike, do you stop at stop lights and stop signs or do you breeze right through them? I st I stop or rolling stop.
+
+[23:06] So like uh I look my my general rule is uh is don't make somebody else hit the brakes or feel nervous. So if if a if a car has to hit the brakes because you're running a light, or if another biker or if a pedestrian has to stop what they're doing because you're going through the light, you've done a bad thing. Otherwise, hell with it. In fact, like how many times have you seen bikers get T-boned because they're waiting, and then when they start up at the red light, the person just makes the turn right into them. I've seen it so many times.
+
+[23:39] Like, so like I know. Like I'm just gonna sit there at the light and wait to get T-boned by that car. No thanks. You know what I mean? You have to be pretty fearless to uh to bike in this city, definitely.
+
+[23:50] Because everyone's going kind of slow. It freaks me out outside of the city where people are doing like 80 mile an hour next to you. I've seen a lot of fast bikers in this city, very fast, faster than cars often. Well, yeah, it depends. I mean, like you're only allowed to go where anyway, whatever.
+
+[24:01] Yeah, I think we This is a this isn't about cocktails. No, no. All right. Uh we missed a section of the show where people say if they've uh had anything or done anything interesting uh food-wise over the past week. Anyone, anyone?
+
+[24:14] How's your Belgique menu going, John? It's stalled some had no call, no show last week, and yeah, just been back to hiring, unfortunately. Life gets in the way. Oh, so no call, no show, instant fire, man. I like that that's in fire.
+
+[24:28] You know, I gave him three or four days and then he texts me back on the fourth day and says, you know, I was in the hospital. Like I'll come in tomorrow with paperwork. And then he just never showed, and I've never heard back from him. So yeah. It's great.
+
+[24:42] Love it. Yep. Love it. Love it. That's why it's so hard to do anything.
+
+[24:47] It really is. Pressure of service is the reason why. That's why when I was at the French Culinary Institute, it was such a good like thing because people could come in and we could iterate stuff for them without because we didn't have the pressure of service. You can't it's so hard to do development and service at the same time. So hard.
+
+[25:04] It really is. Yeah. Um, you know, and let and especially nowadays that everyone wants to like be a human being and like do everything else. Like there's no time left for development. You know what I mean?
+
+[25:15] Yeah. It's very difficult. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm just saying it's hard. It's hard, yeah.
+
+[25:19] Absolutely. Yeah. Uh uh speaking of uh times a change in uh so uh how many of the books would you say that you've done are historically bent? Uh well, most of them, but some of them are historically bent in the idea that we're talking about the distant past. Like I have a book about the martini and a book about the old fashioned, and so it takes the whole history of that drink up until the present day.
+
+[25:44] Um and then there was a book called A Proper Drink, which was a history of the cocktail revival, which was more of a narrative, not recipe book. That was six years ago. Yeah, it came out 2016, so it takes the movement up until uh 2016 and then stops there. Obviously, a lot has happened since then. Nothing.
+
+[26:02] Nothing, and nothing important has happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not not a thing. Not a thing. Um yeah, and this one is, you know, as an encyclopedia is also historical nature.
+
+[26:11] Yeah, you know, but modern and past. So this is kind of bridging that. I've I've tried to encompass everything. It goes back to um the late 1700s and encompasses the entire cocktail history in the world. It comes up until 2023, actually.
+
+[26:26] I I kept adding updates and sentences until it went to a print. Nice. Well, I um I'm sure your editor appreciated that. Uh actually she encouraged it. Really?
+
+[26:35] Oh, nice. That's strong. Yeah. Uh okay, so question. Do you so history is a point of view with a bunch of cherry picked is not the right word because that is pejorative.
+
+[26:52] Nastasia's least favorite word that I use. But like, so when you're writing a history, right? Mm-hmm. Do you first of all, do you agree that like all histories are points of view, obviously? Yeah, they're to a certain uh extent, they are subjective, yes.
+
+[27:08] I mean, somebody else would have written the encyclopedia cocktails, and I think about two-thirds of the book would have been the same, the same subject matter, but the other third would have been selective. Right. And so the thing is right, people get to kind of choose, people get to kind of choose what the canon is, in the way that like MOMA chooses what the canon of art is. Right. Um for good or for ill.
+
+[27:32] Um so when you're doing something like this, how do you especially now, how do you choose when you are going to leave someone in, for instance, David Embry, who was very important but was a rancid individual, versus more modern people who you might not have in who have done bad things but also had influence. How do you kind of draw that line between like bad actors from the past, bad actors from the present, or do you not feel like you have to parse that so much when you're working on it? You have to uh parse that a little bit. I mean, uh if uh if a person is important, they're important. I mean, they may have be a bad individual.
+
+[28:11] You mentioned David Enbury, who was uh idolized by many people in the revival. Yeah, produced this great book, um uh The Fine Art of Mixing Drinks. And then we found out later that his uh sympathies t lended towards uh the Nazi and all that kind of thing. And so it's it's difficult to like him anymore, but still he made his contribution, and so he remained in there. He's also a bad tipper.
+
+[28:35] Uh was he? And met yeah, so that that guy who had that amazing cocktail book collection. Yes, uh, who died a number of years ago, saw him give a talk in like 2008 or nine at an early tales of the cocktail. And uh I was like, he said he'd poured drinks for him. Mm-hmm.
+
+[28:56] Right, because he's old, you know. And I was like, oh, how was he? He's like, bad tipper. I was like, oh, son of a son of a gun. That's bad.
+
+[29:04] Uh he lived up in Larchmont. I actually saw his house once. It was for sale, um, and briefly had this fantasy of buying it and turning it into a bar. I didn't have the money to do that. And no, now I'm kind of glad that I didn't do it.
+
+[29:17] Yeah. But um uh another person, another figure that's in the book is Charles Schumann, who is basically like the Dale de Graff of Germany, even of Europe, but he's gotten into a lot of trouble um in recent years, uh, due to his um antiquated sexist points of views of who belongs behind a bar and who doesn't. And yet he's still in there. I mean, I but I include a line about the controversy so that people have a full picture of his impact and career. Yeah.
+
+[29:45] Let me see, I got some questions here. Oh, by the way, I noticed that uh you talk a little bit about Calvados versus uh Applejack a little bit and Apple Brandy. And you brought some Calvados. Well, so like here's the thing, right? This is my pitch to everyone.
+
+[30:01] Since you're if you're a cocktail person, you can make this happen. Yeah. Uh so first of all, uh, you know, going back to like uh cost and all that, like one of the things I think that Sasha and his crew, his ilk are not necessarily remembered for by JQ Public, is that they used very cheap liquor to very good effect, right? And so like things like Rittenhouse, which were fundamentally free, not anymore, but they were fundamentally free at the time, uh, hard to get, but not expensive. They would make a lot of these amazing drinks around it.
+
+[30:33] Same with like, you know, the uh Laird's Apple Brandy, the bottled and bond, you know, that really fit their whole brand, right? You know, Lisa Laird is what, like a billionth generation, like family-owned uh apple brandy distiller right over the river in Jersey, uh-huh, uh still making it. You know, and and when I was, you know, young, you could just get the Apple Jack, which is the the blended. And then, you know, really I've you know, like Chad Solomon and Sasha's whole group kind of brought back the you know, the prevalence in bar in the bar world of the bottled and bond uh hundred, you know, the hundred-proof bottled and bond uh apple brandy from Laird's. Yes.
+
+[31:12] Which is, you know, a great product. I use it. Um, but it's almost impossible to get their Jersey Lightning, which is their moonshine. Yes, you don't see that very often. It used to be impossible to get the bonded.
+
+[31:22] Yeah. I mean, there was this great campaign during the aughts among bartenders to get it. But that's because of the whole Sasha crew. It's like all their crew. I would like to add though, you said that they made good drinks out of uh inexpensive booze.
+
+[31:35] Um that didn't mean it was bad booze. It was it was good spirits. It's just things were cheap back then because they were unappreciated. Uh they used to have uh Pappy Van Winkle in there well. Yeah, well Pappy Van Winkle used to be well, the other the lower marks.
+
+[31:48] I used to buy the 15 for $30 a bottle. Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, they're at Astor. Like I didn't have to search around for it. I could go to Astro Place or Warehouse Wines, which are two like relatively large wine stores, you know, near Eighth Street, you know, in Lower Manhattan, and I just go buy it.
+
+[32:03] Right. Nobody wanted it. I remember when it changed, uh, because I called Julian Van Winkle. So we were do the the a bunch of Spanish chefs were coming over. So it was Ferron Adria, like Martin Barasatigi, like the Arzaks, like you know, Kiki de Costa, all these people were coming over to the French Culinary Institute.
+
+[32:21] Yes. And my job was to get them something American. So I'm like, I'm gonna get Pappy 15. Okay. Right.
+
+[32:27] So and because it was still like $30 a bottle, but it had just hit. This was like 20, like this is like 2005 or six, maybe six six maybe. And uh it had just kind of hit, and I was like, I can't find it anywhere. What the hell's going on? Because I just bought a bottle recently, you know what I mean?
+
+[32:45] And the price hadn't spiked. So I called Julian Van Winkle the third or whatever his name is. You had his number. Back then you could just get in touch with people. Okay.
+
+[32:52] I got call him and he's like, Yeah, no, you can't, I can't. I was like, I like I was like, this is what I want to get people to show what America is. You can't get me like 10 bottles. He's like, No, they're all gone. I was like, damn.
+
+[33:04] Yeah. I was late to that party. I I mean I had by the time I was trying to drink the Pappy stuff, you know, it was all expensive and allocated. Yeah, my first bottle of Pappy was 20, but I wasn't buying that because that was like $45, $50 is too much. It was a gift.
+
+[33:18] Yeah. From Bobby Flay, actually. Yeah. Way back in the day. The whole bartending community, all of us, we sort of created our own problem.
+
+[33:26] We like pointed to all the good stuff, saying, This is the good stuff. Then everyone else knew, and the prices skyrocketed. And now, like all the wonderful spirits that we drank for nothing, we can't even get. We used to use Yamazaki and Habiki in in cocktails. Eric Castro told me that at the Rick House in San Francisco when they opened in the late odds 2009, they had that in the well.
+
+[33:48] They put it in all the cocktails. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so this is uh so what is your point of view, by the way?
+
+[33:55] Do you uh when you are making an apple brandy cocktail, do you think it is better with Calvados or with Applejack? Uh Calvados okay so that's what I'm gonna say. Most Calvados to me, like so look, like Laird's apple brandy is very woody, right? But it's you know, hundred proof. But like considering the color of most Calvados, it's extremely I don't think it plays well in the kind of drinks that I like to make.
+
+[34:21] I like to if I want apple brandy, a lot of times I want to shake with it. And I just don't think it works very well in most shaking drinks. But this, which is blanche calvados and clean as a whistle, is cheap. It's just unavailable. This is like 30, this is like 30 something a bottle retail.
+
+[34:40] And but you can't find it. Is that you can't find it? Yeah. Baron Francois does not push this stuff. This is Druin's uh you pronounce it my my French friend, my Belgique, my uh homme de Belgique.
+
+[34:52] La blanche de Christian Douan au de Videocido. Yeah, it's delicious blanche. It is delicious, but it's so different from Laird's Applejack that like I say in the book, you it's not necessarily better cocktail, it's just a different cocktail. Right. So, but this is also different from anything from Calvados.
+
+[35:08] This, like, is this is a shaking dream. You can shake this like nobody's business. How clean is that? It's very clean. So did you use this in cocktails at Booker Index in existing conditions?
+
+[35:14] Existing conditions. We used to pour more of it than I think anyone else. We also used a blanch a blanche armagnac, which is like the cleanest grape, you know, unaged grape. Because when for me, in a shaking cocktail, unless I'm looking for Joe, you want to try this stuff or no? No.
+
+[35:36] Uh unless I'm looking for like a specific characteristic, I kind of want like clean, and this like lets the apple kind of come out, but it does, it doesn't have a lot of other crap riding over it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yes. And it's a good product, right?
+
+[35:49] It is. No, it's a great product. Why don't why don't people buy this? I sent a message to Baron Francois, which is the thing. I was like, what the hell?
+
+[35:57] And they're like, yeah, literally one store carries it in Manhattan. I think in spirits there are certain lost causes. I've covered this beat for 17 years, and I've seen people like you champion certain spirits like Calvados, like Armagnac, like uh Aqua Vit. Aquavite's the best. It never happens.
+
+[36:16] It's never gonna happen. It's not gonna tell there's something about the American palate. They don't know, they do not want these things. But this Americans would love this. You're saying Americans wouldn't like this?
+
+[36:24] Yes, that's what I'm saying. This American is an everyday drink. It's not gonna replace in cocktails. In cocktails. Well, it's if it's your bar and you're making the cocktails, you can put whatever you want in them.
+
+[36:36] Yes, I don't know. That doesn't mean that they're gonna start ordering it straight, the way they order bourbon straight. Oh no, no, I don't think this is this is not a straight sipper. I would rather straight sip aged calvados. Uh-huh.
+
+[36:45] But I'm I'm as a cocktail, to me, that's a versatile ingredient. Whereas like aged Calvedose, not so versatile. Mm-hmm. Right? Or like, you know, frankly, like a lot of like Aqua Beat is very versatile to cocktail drink.
+
+[36:59] Again, I don't drink it straight. Yeah. But it's like super good. I mean, unless you're doing the skull thing. But yeah, no, it's great.
+
+[36:59] It's great. Uh Toby Cicchini's a big fan of uh Aqua Vit. And if you go to Long Island Bar, his bar in Brooklyn, he uh he will pour you some. Yeah. He has a few cocktails, no, maybe two on the menu that have it in it.
+
+[37:17] We almost always had a Linny drink on the menu. Did you? Yeah. And uh and did people order it? Oh, yeah, all the time.
+
+[37:24] Okay. Uh and uh I love Linny, and uh for years I did a uh a um project at the French Culinary Institute, the Skull Project, where we made our own aqua beat illegally, and we're doing uh, you know, doing pictures of people skulling. We have Merle Haggard. Nastasi and I and Travis, my brother-in-law, flew to Modesto to go to a Merle Haggard concert to get him to skull. Remember that, Stas?
+
+[37:49] That's awesome. Yeah, I do. Modesto. It's the best thing that has ever happened to a person in modesto. So you met him?
+
+[37:56] Yeah, a couple times. All right. Excellent. That's great. Yeah.
+
+[38:00] We got uh Dick Cavot. Dick Cavit. Yeah. He's still around, isn't he? I don't know.
+
+[38:06] If he is, he's a billion years old. You know, I found out that he slept with Janice Joplin. He got around. He knew a lot of people. He used to own a mansion out uh in the Hamptons that was built by Stanford White.
+
+[38:16] Burned to the ground, though. Oh, all right. Well, I'll just check out. By the way, speaking of uh Janice Joplin, Nastasia will like this fact, but it's not radio related, so I'll keep it brief. The the place that we went after the Pauly Shore concert, Barney's Beanery, was where Janice Joplin had her last drink.
+
+[38:33] I think it might have been the one in Hollywood, though. Oh, we weren't in West Hollywood? No. Oh, it's the one in West Hollywood, sorry. It was probably Southern Comfort, I would guess.
+
+[38:42] She drank that. She made Southern Comfort so famous, you know, among the hippie community. First thing I ever got drunk on. I mean, not drunk, uh sick on. Hmm.
+
+[38:51] Yeah, never been a favorite of mine. Never had it again. Yeah. People hit me. So Misty Calcoffin, who also was in the book and working the event, did a peach drink with with I think it was I can't remember whether it was Rye or Bourbon.
+
+[39:04] And uh I was like, oh, you know, uh SoCo is the first thing that ever made me sick. And she's like, oh, can are you triggered? I'm like, no, that was a long time ago. I'm 52. That was like a million years ago.
+
+[39:14] You know what I mean? Like it's like five lifetimes ago. Uh I remember when the Sazrec company, they reintroduced it, they relaunched Southern Comfort recently, and I interviewed uh them about it. And um it's it's always assumed it's a a whiskey drink that there is whiskey in it. For the longest time there was zero whiskey in that.
+
+[39:31] And so the biggest change they did was they put the whiskey back in. It was neutral grain spirit. And and peach garbage and fake wood? Yeah. Yeah, just terrible.
+
+[39:41] Just poisonous. Poisonous. And now it's it actually doesn't really taste that much better, but it does have whiskey in it. All right. Okay.
+
+[39:51] Um I also like when you in your infusion, you you call out hibiscus. Like of all the things to call if you're only gonna call out five things, hibiscus. What's wrong with that? I see a lot of cocktails with uh hibiscus. I love hibiscus.
+
+[40:04] I've used it many times. This is my bartenders use it many times. I love it, but it's just like if you're gonna choose like four things. Well, what would you choose instead? I mean, I put in jalapenos jalapenas in there.
+
+[40:14] I mean, it's very common as far as tequila drinks are concerned, mascell drinks are concerned. Yeah. I guess there are a million things to infuse. I just put in the things that I saw most commonly at bars. All right.
+
+[40:24] Let's talk about a different book, The Three Ingredient Cocktail. Sure. Yeah. So I love three ingredient cocktails. So do I.
+
+[40:31] But w for me, so like I ran years ago at Booker and Dax, we we ran a three ingredient cocktail contest with our bartenders. First person to get a three-ingredient cocktail menu uh on the menu, they won a prize. I forget what it was. I think we gave them one of the Meehan Jim Meehan roll-up bartender bags. Oh, those were cool.
+
+[40:47] Yeah. I still have one. Yeah. Um, but uh yeah, Kyla, I love a three-ingredient drink just because I think it it promotes mental diligence to be able to just do it with three. Yes.
+
+[41:00] You know what I mean? But like uh you get to you work very hard on those three ingredients because like, you know, we weren't just choosing three ingredients off the back bar, it was three ingredients. You know what I mean? So you know, you were allowed to, you know, tweak, you know, center fuel, whatever you needed to do to the ingredient to get it where it needed to be, do it. And it ended up being a drink that Jack Shram did called the uh tropic thunder, which was uh what was it?
+
+[41:26] It was uh milkwashed, I forget what it was milkwashed rum and uh pineapple syrup, I think pineapple syrup and lime, I think I forget something like that. Yeah. Great. And so, yeah, what so what's your reason for doing the three ingredient book? Yeah.
+
+[41:44] Well, that's a very Booker and Dax three ingredient cocktail. Yeah. Um I wrote uh that book in uh 2017 because uh we were in the thick of the cocktail revival, and there were a lot of ornate eight ingredient cocktails out there. And I was worried that everybody who loved these cocktails was intimidated and thought they could not make cocktails at home. And I wanted to remind them all the best cocktails that were ever invented were very simple, and you can make them too.
+
+[42:10] Oh, you have to you you only have to get a few ingredients and you can perfectly construct these things at home. And so that's what that book was about. That's what the motivation was. You're coming at it from a totally different angle than we were coming at it from. There's stuff on the back bar, stuff you find in the liquor store.
+
+[42:24] And I think there are just a few syrups in there. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe a couple infusions. Yeah, because I because for me, it's like we I always in my mind, like the difference is like very kind of sparse, like a couple of ingredients versus like shotgun style.
+
+[42:39] Just like what you know, what what what do I have back there? Blah blah blah. Like you know what I mean? Like, right. It's like uh I I liken it to um modern chickens.
+
+[42:50] So like uh modern chickens are like amazingly big and tender, and they you know, they they're very efficient at converting f uh food to to meat, right? But they are a layer of a billion different weird interventions on top. And some of these cocktails are like that, where it's like, well, that's not quite right. So add just a sousant of this, add like a little bit of the thing. Yeah, that's your approach.
+
+[43:16] No, no, no. I'm like three ingredients. So, like Yeah, but you want to mess with all three of them. You can mess with the ingredients, but I'm not, I don't, but I'm not like I don't want to be I'm not like I'm gonna take these three ingredients, but then I'm gonna add 30 other things to make it taste okay. Right.
+
+[43:30] You know what I mean? I'm like, you know, let's like focus on this flavor, this flavor, and this flavor, and getting those flavors to work together rather than, you know, you know what, every cocktail needs in the world, it needs a bar spoon of Susan, a bar spoon of chartreuse. Which by the way, makes everything taste good. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[43:50] But it's a just a different style. Right. You know. But you're not gonna like grab Channara off the shelf and say, let's put this in this three ingredient cocktail. You're gonna say, How can I make Channar better?
+
+[43:59] How can I make my own Channar? So you're gonna do it like that way. I would focus on like Channar is delicious. So you okay, so maybe you would use Jinner. No, I use it, but I I would use when I use it, I focus on it.
+
+[44:11] You know what I mean? So like I I do a a frozen drink that's basically just channel and apple and pineapple juice. Okay. It's great. Channar and pineapple, good buddies.
+
+[44:19] But there are very few bartenders out there anymore that just rely on what's on the back bar. Uh Phil Ward out in Long Island Bar, he's owned one of the last that I know. He doesn't invent new cocktails, he doesn't create new ingredients. He just whatever's on the back bar. That's those are his the limitations he sets up for himself.
+
+[44:35] And he makes it Which is smart, which is why people make his drinks because they're easy to do. Right. So like, you know, I've always like promoted uh a non-back bar approach, and this is why very few people make the drinks. You know what I mean? Like Yes, that's why it's hard for you to come up with a modern classic.
+
+[44:52] Exactly. Exactly. Uh okay, this is from uh Fuchi. Uh talk a little bit about Absinthe. Uh, have my first cocktail made with absinthe, and I quite enjoyed it, Death in the Afternoon.
+
+[45:02] Uh Absinthe, lemon, semi, semi-rich sugar. Although look, people, there's no reason to ever make a semi-rich. Either use rich simple or use one-to-one. Like anything in between, please, please, please. Why make your life hard?
+
+[45:13] Semi-rich. Does he mean like one and a half to one? Is that but yeah, but a lot of Europeans do this. What what the heck? Like, get with the program.
+
+[45:19] It doesn't make any sense. Well, that's that's what keeps the world interesting. Bartenders have a lot of habits that we don't have, and some of them don't make any sense, but it's kind of fun that they exist. They have weird, they have weird jiggers over there. And like I asked a bunch of people in London when they they I was doing a talk, and uh I was like, What's your standard pour?
+
+[45:38] Standard pour here is 60, right? You know, two ounces, 60 standard pour for a cocktail. Yeah. And they some dumb number, like 50 or like some crazy number, some some sort of random non, I was like, what the hell? And they're like, yeah.
+
+[45:53] I was like, Europeans, man. Although they're not European anymore. You see that thing at uh European bars, a lot of European bartenders do this when they're making a drink. They'll have the two tins, they fill one tin with ice, and then they put the other tin on top of the ice in the other tin to keep it chilled while they're then they start pouring the ingredients in the second one. And it's just so strange, but they swear by it.
+
+[46:13] Yeah, well, you know, look, uh as long as you're focusing on whatever you're doing, you're you're you're good. Anyway, you know, so uh um question about absinthe. Yeah, so uh talk so you know you're you're gonna know a lot more about absinthe than I am, so talk about it. Uh oh, sorry. I doubt it.
+
+[46:27] So Death in the Afternoon Absinthe lemon, uh uh sugar syrup and prosecco in coop glass. You do talk about the coop glass. I do, I do. I talk about the coop glass, which made a huge comeback in the last 20 years. Before that, everything was served in a martini glass.
+
+[46:41] Which they're they're terrible. Up glasses, they're the worst. Yeah. They suck. Though they'll never they'll never die the martini glass.
+
+[46:46] I hope they do. They never will. Because um, there's something about that uh there's certain customers who want that glass. And also if you give them a martini that's not in a martini glass, they will get upset. They're not getting what they expect.
+
+[46:58] But absinthe, I am if you come to my bar, people get ready to get upset. Yeah. Uh absinthe, I think is best in uh small touches. That I always think of it as an accent ingredient, and that's how it best flatters a cocktail. I'm not a big fan of absinthe, like an absinthe frop or something that's mainly absinthe.
+
+[47:17] I mean, you really have to like that. Is that because you're an American like I am and you hate all liquorish? What about you? What about you, Frenchy, Frenchy, French Belgian man? Are you an absinthe man or no?
+
+[47:26] Oh, you hate licorice. I hate licorice. Oh, yeah. He's the only euro that hates the bigger. I was just in Athens for the first time, and I did not drink any Usoak.
+
+[47:29] I just, it's not my thing. Did you fall? Did I fall? Mm-hmm. What do you mean?
+
+[47:38] So Athens is like the slippery place on Earth. Oh, yeah. Although everything's marble. Yeah. It was very slippery.
+
+[47:44] Yeah. Did you fall? No, I didn't. But I almost did. Nastasia and I went barefoot sometimes.
+
+[47:49] It was so slippery. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I just wanted to say to them, you know, marble's not great for everything. Yeah. Well, the whole place is like the the it's built on a marble hill.
+
+[47:58] The whole thing is marble. Mm-hmm. Nuts. Yeah, and if it rains, forget about it. Yeah.
+
+[48:03] And they don't have like, I guess, lawsuits like we have here. So it's like, you know, it's like, oh, that dude, he slid down the mountain and died. You're like, oh, Christ gave a speech here and he slipped down the mountain. Didn't kill him though. You know what I mean?
+
+[48:16] It's like, it's crazy over there. Yeah. There was a moment in time in the late aughts when we were trying to make absinthe a bigger thing in this country, and we actually opened absinthe bars, but most of them like flopped almost immediately. Uh it did double digits growth because everyone thought they were gonna get high on Fujone. Uh-huh.
+
+[48:32] You know, and then Well, it was this forbidden thing, and everyone wanted to taste the forbidden thing. And then they said, Oh, it's licorice. Okay. They're like next. Yeah, they're like, oh, I like I like Van Gogh and Latrec, so like I'm gonna like this.
+
+[48:45] Yeah. And no, oh, I hate this. You know what I mean? Wow, this I hate it. Um I like it actually.
+
+[48:52] I'm fine with it. But you know, like uh Well, like I said, I like it in little touches. Do you know what I you know you know what the the best little touch is? A tiny, tiny, tiny old, old, old man in Marseille pounding like little glasses of uh I forget whether they're like uh are they Ricard there? They always forget whether they're Ricard in Marseille.
+
+[49:10] There's like Preneau and there's Ricard. Mm-hmm. I forget which one is Marseille, but like they're sitting there around the old ports going, I think it's Richard down there. Yeah, like just taking these little shots. Yeah.
+
+[49:20] Little people, little shots. So old. I love it. Yeah. The old port in Marseille is fantastic.
+
+[49:24] I've never been. Oh my God. You never been to Marseille? No. Oh, Marseille is great.
+
+[49:30] John, you like Marseille? Yeah. Fantastic. What about you, Joe? Sas, anyone?
+
+[49:34] Marseille? It's got grit. Never been. It's got grit. Do you like seafood soup?
+
+[49:40] Sounds good. It's the cap it's the world capital bully base. True. I know it has this reputation for grit. Is that it have a reputation for criminality for a long time?
+
+[49:50] Is there a difference? Yeah, I mean, like, you know, I don't like things that are totally on the up and up. So like you go into Marseille, and like, you know, you're getting like sea urchins off the off the boat as they come in, and like at any minute you could get ripped off. And I'm like, I I feel it here. It's good.
+
+[50:07] You know what I mean? That's the town where I saw an organ grinder get so mad at his monkey. The monkey was acting up. And so the organ grinder like has the monkey on the thing. He's packing him back up in the van and he just goes wham and smashes the monkey's head into the van.
+
+[50:23] And I was like, oh, this place is rough. When the organ grinder and the monkey are getting into a fight on the street, I was like, this place is legit. You know what I mean? And yeah. So I was like, I love it here.
+
+[50:35] Like, I I could be here a long time if I only I spoke French. Weren't the first scenes in the French connection in Marseille? Probably. That's where a lot of the lot of the drug running and stuff was. Yeah.
+
+[50:45] And then you take a train, like not even like an hour, maybe an hour up to X, and it's like freaking Westchester up there. I was like, Oh my God, those people were like compared to Marseille, not my what are you you're more of an X kind of guy, right? Yeah. We do Calisson, uh sit in my cafe, eat my calison, whatever. Uh do they have any cocktail bars in Marseille or are they just all shooting Ricard?
+
+[51:09] I don't know. I haven't been there in a long time. I haven't been there since the revival. But I would love to go back. There's got to be at least one.
+
+[51:16] We stayed in an old Corbus A so like the reason we were there is my wife was doing a project on a on a designer named Charlotte Perrion, who did a lot of uh furniture. Then my wife was a scholar of Charlotte or is a scholar of Charlotte Perrion. And so she did all the furniture in this uh building he did called Unite, which is like one of the early kind of post-war uh corbu, like high rises outside of Marseille. So we stayed overnight in that hotel. It was fun.
+
+[51:41] Excellent. Yeah, but he was a scumsucker. Oh, yes. Corbus? Yeah.
+
+[51:46] Yeah. I was I do not know. Not my Bailey Wake. Taking anyway. Yeah.
+
+[51:51] But I'm gonna have to add Marseille to the list. Places to visit. I mean, when I say scumsucker, I mean like just, you know, taking other people's ideas. It's a general, like, you know, mid-century, like male, like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know what I mean?
+
+[52:04] Yeah. Well, you don't become that famous without, you know, doing a few bad things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Doing some people wrong.
+
+[52:11] So you're so you're you don't have any uh words of wisdom for on absinthe for uh Oh, you know, I do. I mean, you sit just spare sparingly. I mean, I th it is a great accent, and there's so many uh cocktails that require it. That's one of the reasons why we wanted to bring it back so desperately, because every time we opened an old cocktail book, half of the cocktails asked for absurd. Well that's because they were all at that one from that one period of time when it was the catch up of the day.
+
+[52:34] Right. It was the bartender catch-up of the day. Yeah. And it was a good catch up. It works.
+
+[52:37] It works like a mansion really works. You know, if you pick up a book from like, you know, two thousand and like 11, two thousand twelve, you you'd think that Fournette's in everything. You know what I mean? Because it was catch up for a while. If this person lives in New York, do they look do we know where they live?
+
+[52:51] No, no information. I would recommend they go. That's a legendary. That's your dad. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[52:57] All right. Well, okay. I would recommend they go to Maison Premier, a bar in Brooklyn. They have more absinthe than anybody, and you can just sit there and taste a bunch and find out which ones you like. They also probably have more cocktails with absinthe in it.
+
+[53:11] I like the theory of the drip. Yes. Drips are fun. The absinthe drip is fun. It's fun.
+
+[53:16] Yes. But then you end up with a milky glass of licorice. But it's fun to watch. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[53:22] I happen to like licorice. Um but Americans just we hate it. We really hate it. I like Twizzlers, which is not licorice, but we pretend it is. Uh does Twizzles even make a black?
+
+[53:33] No. I don't think so. They may they use it. I'm hearing from Joe that they they do, but like no one. Oh yeah.
+
+[53:39] All right. Jason writes in uh if you were on the Titanic and you were going down with the ship, by the way, famous publisher uh from the Roy Crofters, uh uh Hubbard was his name, but not related to the religion guy. Uh he and his wife went down on the Titanic, didn't go on the lifeboat, just stood up there and thought it was a romantic way to go down. So if you're doing a Roy Crofter's like sinking on the Titanic and you're gonna order three cocktails instead of trying to get yourself on that lifeboat, what are they? All right, so you're going down on the Titanic.
+
+[54:10] Right. And it takes a couple of hours. I mean, I've seen both movies. It takes a while. So you can get a good three cocktails in.
+
+[54:15] Yes, yes, yes. And I would I would assume they had good cocktails on the Titanic. It was a luxury liner. Yeah. Everybody, well, most people there were rich.
+
+[54:23] Um, and you probably want a strong drink so that you can close off your mind to what is happening, which is your imminent demise. So I would have three martinis in a row. Really? Three dry martinis in a row. Why, why mess around?
+
+[54:36] It's the greatest cocktail. They would have had the best gin, and then you would have been drunk and you wouldn't care. Oh my god. So, okay, so martini. Martini, martini, martini.
+
+[54:48] So martini, though, but how fast do you consume a martini? Uh, not very fast. So you like it even as it warms up? No. By not fast, it's like 10 minutes.
+
+[54:58] It's still cold. Okay. Yeah. How fast do you drink a martini? I mean, to me, a martini is a sipper, but like in the, but I hate it when it gets warm.
+
+[55:07] No, it's deadly when it's warm. It has to be cold. So you find that sweet spot. I think you can do it, do it in 10 minutes. You don't want to gulp it and do three gulps because it's like a sledgehammer.
+
+[55:17] So you keep it like in the water, like just like cool with the ocean as it's Yeah. Maybe I would tell the Titanic steward to do it in like the Audrey Saunders style with a sidecar. So like half of the drink is out on ice and it stays cold that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like in the the Massa martini glass, you know, katana kit and it's a little bit.
+
+[55:34] Oh, right. Yeah, it's in the in the box, you know. That's a good point. Well, what would your three drinks be? What were you Joe?
+
+[55:41] What were you gonna say? There was just some news about the Titanic where they uh they found a menu. Sold the first class menu for 1.2 million at auction. Oh, really? Oysters.
+
+[55:51] What could what there weren't there beverages on the menu as well? A couple things, yeah. Yeah. Tomato juice and other delicacy. Champagne, probably.
+
+[55:58] Do you know what's funny? Certain things come into vogue as soon as a company figures out how to do it, and then they come into vogue. Like, for instance, pineapple. Like so Dole figured out how to can pineapple, and then they put a zillion dollars into making a bunch of recipes with canned pineapple because now they had this, like they took over a whole island and basically put into forced labor that entire island growing pineapples. And then they paid people, including my favorite uh Monroe Boston Strauss, to like come up with pineapple recipes.
+
+[56:27] So, like all the pineapple recipes from like the 30s and 40s, all paid for by dole. All paid for by dull. The pineapple hegemony. All these recipes that you see come out is all paid for by big whatever it is. I noticed in my research uh on the old-fashioned book, after Prohibition, the garnishes were not just orange and cherry anymore.
+
+[56:48] There was always a pineapple, and that went on through the 30s. And I was so curious. And then somebody suggested, well, that's just the pineapple industry. It is. Yeah.
+
+[56:55] They used to, they used to have a their main office um in the 48, where it was in San Francisco. And so, like, you know, Big Pineapple's money went from Hawaii over to San Francisco and then radiated out like a spider of pineapple wealth all over. And they hired the best people of their time. They infiltrated uh mac like magazines aimed at consumers. They infiltrated like professional organizations.
+
+[57:16] So it's like this is still the way things work. Big fruit. Yeah, big fruit. Uh so uh my three, I can have anything, they have anything I want. I would assume the Titanic has everything, yes.
+
+[57:27] Uh maybe not Southern Comfort. So oh, but I can't choose like drinks that like I wish that someone could make for me. It's I think this is a fantasy question, and you should just say which three drinks you're having. Uh assume the Titanic can make anything. I would have the I would have uh a drink we used to have called the VEP Chartreuth, which was yellow VEP clarified lime carbonated, which is one of my favorites.
+
+[57:49] I would have uh maybe uh purple, which is Aka Vite, and Purple Basil nitro muddled, and then a big old glass of champagne to finish off. Champagne. That's a good way to finish off. So your your wish involves time travel. I don't know.
+
+[58:05] All right, I'll say uh uh Rodolfo uh Codero writes in uh wait, uh home bar enthusiasts have my own carbonation system at home, primarily a standalone CO2 tank with a single line. The only issue is there are concerns for the safety of having a five-pound carbonation tank at home. How safe are they to have safe? Uh the main thing is if someone knocks them over and breaks them, it'll vent, but it's you know, small amounts like that, even if it vents, it's not gonna cause any any damage in your house. People have them inside all the time.
+
+[58:29] I mean, you should chain them so that they don't fall over. Uh but five pounds, you're you're good to go. Uh Dan Watson opening a new cocktail bar shortly. A large part of our program is going to be high balls and house-made seltzer, so we want our carbonated water gain to be top notch. My main question is do you still recommend the big uh the McCann Big Mac carbonator as well as the CM Becker premix taps?
+
+[58:48] Yes. Um Herring Deck in Barn Nuremberg says, uh, do you think, you, Robert, that uh that the era of the modern classic drink is over since more and more bars are making advanced drinks with homemade ingredients and have uh menus with exclusively their own signature drinks. Uh short answer, sadly, yes. I do believe uh that era is over. Uh well, it's just harder and harder to make a simple drink that can be replicated uh that is a modern class that hasn't been done before.
+
+[59:14] So, you know. Yeah. Uh almost impossible. Martin Schwab, tea infused spirits versus carbonated tea for highball cocktails. What's the best call?
+
+[59:23] Um it depends on how much alcohol and how cold they are. Carbonated tea sometimes is a little bit too astringent. What do you think? This uh this is this is your question. Yeah, I mean, I I think look, you should milkwash it.
+
+[59:33] That's what I said. I came up with a whole technique to knock back the tea because I think that like a very cold alcohol and tea is sometimes too astringent, and that's why people you go really light on the tea. Uh from S, uh carbonate a few things at home, water, uh hibiscus tea mainly using CO2 tank, regulator, and chest refrigerator. A three-year-old video on YouTube shows that you have an on-demand carbonation setup. Any big differences between the two approaches besides batch versus continuous?
+
+[59:55] That's a pretty big difference. Continuous seltzer on tap. No, Mark Powers and Company website I recommend they no longer sell to people. Um but uh yeah, no, like having carbonation carbonated water on tap, which I've had for the past 25-30 years, is the single greatest move I ever made in my life next to marrying my wife and having kids. You know what I mean?
+
+[1:00:14] Uh people have carbonation on their mind a lot. Yeah. Uh so uh Robert Simonson's book is the Encyclopedia of Cocktails. You can you can buy it at uh any fine kitchen arts and letters near you. Yeah.
+
+[1:00:26] Uh buy it from them, use the Patreon code, and by the way, Matt from Kitchen Arts and Letters will be on next week. We're gonna try to get in touch with uh Will Robinson's mom, who is a supervisor of Butterball prior to Thanksgiving. But get your Thanksgiving questions in uh for next week. Uh Robert, thanks for coming on. Hope you had a good time.
+
+[1:00:41] I had a great time. All right, cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan at Rockefeller Center, New York City, New Stand Studios. Special Thanksgiving holiday edition, where we're gonna do two separate things, an hour and a half. First, we're gonna start with Matt Sartwell from Kitchen Arts and Letters doing a classic in the field and then we're gonna do the Butterball Turkey Hotline expert herself. Barbara Robinson's coming on for the last half hour of our special hour and a half.
+
+[0:34] So let's get cracking. Uh John, how you doing? Doing great. Yeah, reading. Yeah, so listen, I don't know if you know this, but people who can listen live on Patreon, did you know that uh for the last half hour, this hour and a half, they can call in and have their very own uh one-on-one with like a supervisor from the Butterball Turkey Hotline, not just like you know, the normal calling in, which they could do anytime.
+
+[0:56] Did you know that? I didn't, but I'm really glad I know that now. Would definitely want to make me be a member, yeah. I know, I know. What else do they get if they join the Patreon?
+
+[1:02] Access to the Discord, uh, you know, with a great community of like-minded listeners, uh discounts from books at Kitchen Arts and Letters, and really just a whole bunch of other great things. So you should all join Cooking or uh Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Love it, love it. Uh on the panels we got Joe Hazen. How you doing?
+
+[1:20] I'm doing great, man. Getting ready. Yeah, getting ready for the Thanksgiving. I am happy holidays. Yeah, you doing it uh at your house.
+
+[1:26] Uh what are you doing? I'm doing it at our house. We have about ten people, uh including two children under two years old, so it should be quite fun. So eight adults, two kids. Uh, exactly.
+
+[1:37] Nice. Good mathematics. Yeah, yeah, that's good. It's a good number. Yep.
+
+[1:40] Should be fun. I like that. And then coming back, special guest, Matt Sartwell. Good to have you back. Thank you.
+
+[1:45] Yeah. Happy to be back. Yeah. I'm happy to be on Patreon too. I'm a Patreon member there.
+
+[1:50] We appreciate uh mutual sub mutual support, which I appreciate. I think that's important. Uh now, going uh all the way across the country on their side in Los Angeles, we got not in the same room though. We have Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing?
+
+[2:03] Good. Yeah? Yeah. Jackie Molecules, what's up? Hey, hey, I'm good.
+
+[2:09] Yeah, and then holding it down in Canada. Quinn, how you doing? I'm doing good. All right, right. So now, before we get to our classics in the field, and we know we have obviously plenty to talk about because there are many classics in this field.
+
+[2:20] Let's be you know clear. Uh what what are we all uh miss assuming that all of us do the you know some form of the Thanksgiving thing? What what's what's going on with people? What do you got going? Anyone?
+
+[2:32] Anyone? How about you, John? You doing anything at the restaurant? You close down? Uh we're closed Thursday and Friday, but running pretty barebones stuff up until then.
+
+[2:41] So you decided not to do the whole. So what do you think about that thing where people like uh Maria Guarnicelli, Nastasi, you'll remember this, never did Thanksgiving in her house, always Jean Georges. Yeah. Yeah, which is kind of a baller move. Like, I don't want to cook.
+
+[2:56] You know what I'm gonna do? You know, daughter's a famous chef, right? She's, you know, world-renowned cookbook editor. Jean-Georges. Every Thanksgiving.
+
+[3:05] I'm sure it was a great meal. I haven't been to Jean George in over a decade, but Jean Georges for the longest time, my favorite of the super high ends. Just in terms of fun. Really? Yeah, I used to love going to John George back when I used to do that.
+
+[3:19] Anyway. Uh so you decide not to do that, John, huh? In the restaurant? No, not at the restaurant. I mean, it's a wine bar.
+
+[3:26] People don't come enough yet for that kind of a meal. So you gotta plan so far in advance and build up a group of customers. Like we would always be like, we're gonna do a new year's at the bar, and then we don't sell it until like a month before, and then everyone already has a plan. Exactly, and it's a complete dud. Yeah, and then everyone loses money and they're all ticked off.
+
+[3:42] Yep. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. That's when your staff get crazy and saber champagne bottles with iPads and break them.
+
+[3:50] I was not new staff. I was an owner. Uh and to be fair to me, I didn't know that we didn't have Apple Care. One. And uh, because who doesn't have Apple Care?
+
+[4:03] And two, uh I shouldn't have broken. And three, the bottle did savor and everyone enjoyed it. Good. You know? Good.
+
+[4:12] So much for Gorilla Glass. What about you, Stas? What do you got going on? I'm going to my parents' place. My sister's gonna be here.
+
+[4:20] Yeah. I want I want some sort of a uh a live uh you know, not publicly, but I want some sort of text as it's happening, because it'll be after I'm eating, right? Because I'm eating East Coast time. I want like some sort of moisture check on the turkey. I'll yeah, I'll get a sound.
+
+[4:37] I'll give you sound so you can hear how. I like a turkey that's so dry that it's a like a sound. I'm trying I'm trying to think about it like the best we well look, look like the best it could be is like the crunch of the skin, right? But then you're like, no, that's the breast meat. Oh my god.
+
+[4:56] Nothing worse than like a you know though, I have to say, a very thin slice and a lot of gravy can make up for a lot. And a dry dry turkey breast with a boat ton of mayonnaise is fine on next day's sandwiches. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[5:13] Sure. Yeah. What about you, J what about the you uh senior molecules? What are you doing? Well, uh double double duty.
+
+[5:20] We're doing Boston for my girlfriends, family, and then the next day in Connecticut with my brother. Oh, where in Connecticut? Norwalk. Oh, Norwalk, Norwalk. You get it like what do you do after Thanksgiving, by the way?
+
+[5:33] Are you one of these let's go see a movie kind of people or what? Like, what do you do? No. No, me either. No, just not just so tired because I eat like the dinner lasts so long.
+
+[5:42] I don't have to do much this year, which is blessed. My mom is for the first time since the pandemic, my mom's letting people back into her house. And so we're having it at my mom's house. And, you know, she's got the the stuffing recipe to beat all the, you know, so says Dave Chang, so say we all, I guess, that my mom's stuffing recipe is the best. I mean, I agree, obviously.
+
+[6:00] Uh but so usually like the last time I had Thanksgiving with you know that side of my family, they didn't make enough. I didn't get leftovers, right? Or like even when I used to cook Thanksgiving a lot, other people would take all the leftovers, I wouldn't have leftovers. A couple of Thanksgivings ago, I had to make a whole second Thanksgiving. So I told mom bluntly, I'm like, I'm so happy to come back to your house and make enough stuffing.
+
+[6:22] Make enough stuffing. Don't make me make another batch the next day. Make enough turkey. Don't make me cook a whole nother turkey the next day. Because I will, and then I'll I'll get bent about it.
+
+[6:30] You know what I mean? Anyway. Uh plus all my brothers and sisters now are old enough that they can, you know, if they can afford their own food. So hopefully there's some leftovers for all of us, you know. Uh what about you, Matt?
+
+[6:41] What do you got going on? Uh restaurant with friends. Yeah, yeah, which uh which uh we're going to Dante on McDougal Street in the village. I didn't know they did Thanksgiving. Uh seems like the first year, but uh we have to sort of accommodate a variety of expectations.
+
+[6:58] So a restaurant seemed to be the best way to do that. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Am I allowed to ask more? Because it sounds like an interesting problem that you're navigating. Or would you prefer not to?
+
+[7:07] I I like the Scrivener, you would prefer not to? I I think yes. Like Bartleby, I will uh I will not elaborate further. We're really happy to be getting together with this group of people, and this was the easiest way to make it happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[7:14] Yeah. So all right, Quinn, what do you got going? What what what uh Thanksgiving? Yeah, they do. Oh, yeah.
+
+[7:26] I forgot. Don't you have some sort of like pseudo thing that you oh you already did it, right? Yeah, we no, we have Thanksgiving. It's in October. Okay.
+
+[7:37] Sneaking up on us. Yeah. Yeah. You're so close right across the border. We'll probably cook some big meals just because.
+
+[7:46] Yeah, yeah. So when do they eat turkey in Thanksgiving? I mean, uh in Canada. Like when's the is there a big turkey holiday in in Canada? I mean it's Thanksgiving in October.
+
+[7:57] Okay. All right. And like uh, do you get like good deals on like turkey from across the border, like right after Thanksgiving, or no? Across the border. Yeah, us.
+
+[8:11] Um I eat us. Like you gotta remember, can't you like like America is only like 500 feet from like the you you you get on the water and America's right there from Vancouver. Again, maybe maybe uh on the mainland, but yeah, not on the island. I have to say, I'll say I said this every year. I love turkey.
+
+[8:29] I'm gonna talk about this later, I guess, with uh Barbara Robinson, but a lot of people uh say bad things about turkey as a bird, and uh I love turkey. Taste of turkey, smell of turkey, turkey gravy. Please don't make me please don't make me chicken gravy and call it turkey gravy. It's not right. That's mean.
+
+[8:47] Yeah, it's just bad. Yeah. Oh, oh that's uh terrible. A little bit of a double stock. Free start with chicken stock, reinforce with turkey.
+
+[8:55] I'm okay with I I'm okay with it because most time when you're starting with a quote unquote stock, it's really just like college broth bullion, which is, you know, relatively bland. And so like if you do enough reinforcement, especially if you roast off the bones and uh have some crusty outside bits with some fat in it, you get enough. The turkey is such a strong thing. I don't mind a little, a little undercurrent of chicken. Uh just the same way that I use I use crappy chicken stock as my base for most meat, most meat-based things, because I don't really keep uh meat stock in my in my freezer.
+
+[9:31] I don't have like a thing full of veal stock. I'm not like John here who has freaking freezer full of freaking veal stock in two different colors. I wish. Yeah. Some vegetable stocks, but yeah.
+
+[9:41] Really? You're a veg stock? Oh, yeah. Well, just for recipe testing and things right now. But the plan is once my combi oven gets fit fixed, I have many stocks.
+
+[9:50] Many stocks, you're the man of many stocks? Beef, duck, yeah, a whole bunch. Let me ask you a question. Escoffier style. Right.
+
+[9:57] Does anyone still mix that little bit of tomato pasting with their stock? Yes. Really? I do, yeah. I thought that was like I've done that for a I've done that for a veg stock.
+
+[10:08] Yeah. But it used to be that was like one of the main bases. He they would stir a little bit of tomato paste in, right? Yep. Yeah.
+
+[10:14] And I never understood it. Just like seems like it makes it harder to. Ah, whatever. Yeah. You know.
+
+[10:22] What if's uh all right? Did I miss anyone? Stas, I got you. We're gonna get the we're gonna get the sound cam, but not for public consumption. I'm sorry, people.
+
+[10:30] It's like uh what was the old face that you used to make that people always wanted a picture of and you would not oblige? Vegan. Oh, yeah, the Nastasia's vegan face. Yeah, it's this is gonna be like that. Like people are gonna be asking for, you know, for years, they're gonna be like, What's the what's the sound of the turkey?
+
+[10:46] And we're like, Don't you wish you knew? Don't you wish you knew? You know? So I mean if it's truly dry, it would just be the sound of like mouth noise, I guess. Oh god.
+
+[10:56] Remember when someone threatened mouth would have to make a remember when someone threatened us all because of mouth noises on the radio. They I believe they uh Paul Adams, our friend Paul Adams from America's Test Kitchen. I believe they threatened his life specifically because he made extra mouth noises when we were tasting something. And someone was, you know, people are triggered. It was me in disguise.
+
+[11:23] Uh all right, I'll just say this. Uh I'll report back. So my mom says all I need to make uh is uh bread for the cheese because we do, you know, cheese either we do it before and after. Back to Maria Guarnicelli for a minute, my cookbook editor, mother of Alex Guarnicelli, you know, famous chef. Uh she hated, I didn't never told in the same way that I never told her that uh, you know, the photographer for the for the book was my is my brother-in-law Travis, because she wouldn't allow me to work with family, so we just never told her.
+
+[11:54] Uh you know, aside from that, the other thing I never told her was uh that I eat cheese both before and after the meal. She hated people who had cheese before the meal. If cheese came out before the meal, she thought you were the lowest form of pawn scum that was available. If cheese is an aftermeal situation. Any thoughts?
+
+[12:18] If that is the first time I have encountered that particular point of view. Um I think I'm Pon scum. Yeah, I think well, I think she thought it was like an extremely American way of eating, as opposed to like the kind of you know, French restaurant tradition of cheese or dessert. And the correct answer is everybody? Both.
+
+[12:34] Both. That is the correct answer. Both. The answer is always both. I like it, but I like it both before and after as well.
+
+[12:42] So that would be three. I'll take the dessert. I'll take the after dinner cheese and the before dinner cheese. For instance, I think blues after dinner are lovely with a dessert one. Lovely.
+
+[12:53] But I'll also eat cheese before. Anyway, I'm making bread for the for the cheese course, uh, Parker House rolls for their Parker House rollness and dessert. And this year I'm trying to do uh, you know those checkerboard cakes? You know, with the rings. So I'm I 3D printed an extra tall three uh three and a half inch set of rings so that I can do a full height New York cheesecake alternated with uh pumpkin pie in a ring form, but like super tall.
+
+[13:24] See whether it works. Are they gonna like cook in the same amount of time? Well, I'm gonna use a combi oven. I'm gonna use the uh a Nova Precision Steam oven. So since they're both custard based, I'm just gonna fundamentally let it cook for like three hours at like uh, you know, like 180 Fahrenheit or something like this.
+
+[13:42] So the outside won't get overcooked while the inside is undercooked. I'm gonna pre brown the butter for the uh graham cracker crust so it doesn't need to get any sort of heat on it. So I'm not gonna have to do a water bath, right? Because I got the steam oven. So we'll we'll find out.
+
+[13:56] Yeah. And then I'm gonna do uh I always forget who did it, but whoever recommended the uh acid adjust key lime pie. I'm gonna do a pomegranate version of that as the other thing. And it's gonna be uh it's gonna be fantabulous. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[14:08] That sounds very attractive. Yeah, it yeah. Well, I want to go red, but not cranberry, because we're already gonna have the cranberry with the thing, right? So, you know, we were like, no, even though cranberry would be delicious, just not on Thanksgiving. You don't want a cranberry pie on Thanksgiving, right?
+
+[14:20] Not if it's a lot of cranberry with uh turkey. Their head better be. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[14:26] Their head better be. Okay. Oh, speaking of this, get this. So I'm at this wedding in uh Houston uh over the over the weekend. Uh my sister got married.
+
+[14:35] Gets I didn't my sister runs the space space trash section of Houston Mission Control. She finds all the space space trash and tracks it. Guess the smallest thing they can see from uh the ground, like a like a thousand kilometers away. Guess what size object they can track? Uh license plate.
+
+[14:57] Peppercorn. Whoa. Peppercorn. Serious technology. And she said you would be extremely surprised how much damage something that's peppercorn uh size can do when it's going 18,000 miles the wrong way.
+
+[15:11] You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Like 18,000 mile an hour. Anyway, yeah, space trash uh checker. Anyway, I got a line on a cranberry sauce recipe.
+
+[15:20] But then I asked for the recipe, and it was not it was not forthcoming. So I think I will never get it. I can't talk about it in case they do give it to me, I don't give it away, but it is the craziest cranberry sauce recipe because the cranberries are not cooked. They're ground. I will say only this they are ground mixed with a bunch of other things and lime jello.
+
+[15:45] Anyone heard of anything like this? Never. Like me. Like activated lime jello? Like you're yeah.
+
+[15:52] Not like well, not yet, but you know what's an uh a non, as you call it, activated lime lime jello recipe? Uh a recipe from the 60s slash 70s that was awesome. Is you would buy a pre-made angel food cake, you would shred it up, you would toss it in three different colors of jello, and then get uh three different kinds of uh two or three different kinds of fruit and then pack it in with the with the jello soaked thing and ice cream. Have you ever had this? I have not.
+
+[16:17] It's good. You pack it back into the angel food cake pan and then you refreeze it and you unmold it, and it is good. I will rate it as good. All right, so what do you what have you do you want to do user question? User, do you want to do Patreon questions first or do you want to do ones you've brought?
+
+[16:34] Let's do the questions first because I feel like people who are who are in for the money ought to get their money's worth. Do you know who likes you a lot? Is Joe Hazen behind you? Joe Hazen is like we hang out. We were it was just last weekend.
+
+[16:47] Joe, Joe, it's like get to the questions, you jerk. All right. Uh all right, so uh from uh Hubay uh peasant, just came across a section uh about a book called How to Cook and Eat Chinese in Ken Holmes Autobiography. And it apparently introduced the term stir-frying to the English lexicon. I'd be much obliged if you could discuss this with Matt on the next classics in the field episode.
+
+[17:10] So um I am aware of uh of that assertion, and I don't know anything that says uh otherwise. Uh I did go looking through some older Chinese cookbooks from the early part of the 20th century, which are a relatively scarce item, and I couldn't find any uh examples of the, you know, to the contrary. Uh it's always difficult to prove prove a negative in that case. Um the book itself is pretty highly regarded by people who are serious students of Chinese cuisine and of uh Chinese American food history. Um so it sounds like a credible assertion.
+
+[17:50] Um but it's it is a technique that has a very specific place in Chinese culinary culture, and then it's not something that sort of readily applies to what we know from a lot of Western cooking. So it makes sense that somebody would have had to come up with a with uh a hybrid word to help get the point across. And it seems, you know, the fact that it has stuck, yeah, uh says that it does a job that no alternative phrase could have has done so far. Well, the first edition came out in 1945. And uh, you know, they were in uh so it was like uh it was like uh the the woman who wrote it was I I think she was teaching English to people uh in I think around Cambridge, because that's where the forward from the book is, uh, you know, teaching American officers uh I think Chinese for serving overseas.
+
+[18:46] I think that was one of her jobs. But uh it's so colored by I was flipping through it beforehand, it's so colored by the time, and it got published a billion times, right? Um and stayed in publication even past uh, I believe past when, you know, um deeper looks into Chinese cuisine came into vogue after the Nixon uh administration when he visited China, which is when you know there was a huge resurgence in kind of different kinds of uh Chinese cuisine that had nothing to do with emigration from different places. Anyway, I digress as usual. Uh but it's got a lot of the hallmarks of old, uh older, i.e., you know, earlier 20th century kind of uh like kind of learned writing by women, in that she gives a lot of credit to her husband uh in in the book, and then also says something that's very indicative of the way people who were highly educated when they wrote about food would say kind of negative uh things.
+
+[19:45] So uh by the way, Pearl uh Pearl Buck wrote the intro to one of the later uh editions. Uh author's note. Uh uh this uh this is you know by the author. She says, I'm ashamed to have written this book. First, because I am a doctor and ought to be practicing instead of cooking.
+
+[20:02] Secondly, because I didn't write the book. The way uh I didn't was like this. You know, I speak little English and write less. So I cooked my dishes in Chinese. My daughter Rulan put my Chinese into English, and my husband, finding the English dull, put much of it back into Chinese again.
+
+[20:16] That's when I call a dish mushrooms stir shrimps. Rulan says that that's not English and that it ought to be shrimps fried with mushrooms. But Yen Ren says that if Mr. Smith can go to town in a movie, why can't mushrooms stir shrimps in a dish? So mushrooms stir shrimps, you uh you shall have, or what have you.
+
+[20:32] So it's a great, you know, it's it's interesting, you know what I mean? Uh, and it's got a lot of interesting little nuggets. Like, for instance, at the time, uh, she says that the most common starch used in China is uh water caltrop starch, which is, you know, that form of bat nut water chestnut. You know, that that water chestnut that looks like a bat's, like looks like the devil, like a devil nut, like water caltrop, uh, as opposed to cornstarch. And she calls out uh cornstarch, which she calls corn flour, like she's been hanging out with English people.
+
+[21:01] Worst. English people wake up. Flat corn flour is not cornstarch. Wake up. Okay?
+
+[21:08] Corn flour is when you grind corn, corn. Corn starch is when you wet mill corn and just get the starch. Wake up. But she calls it corn flour. I'm not going to get mad about it.
+
+[21:18] Um, so uh so it's really interesting book. There are, uh, by the way, she it's uh it's also classic in in the sense that uh being written in 1945, an extreme hatred of Japanese people. Uh she she uh uh miss uh and she says this again, but this is in the foreword, not written by her. Miss Uh Bue Yang Chao uh had never cooked an egg until she went to Tokyo's women medical college, right? This is how where she became a doctor.
+
+[21:47] This had to be in the 30s, right? Uh or late 20s, early 30s, 20s, yeah. Probably not 30s. Uh there she found Japanese food so unpalatable that she began to cook her own meals. And by the time she qualified as a doctor, she'd also qualified as a cook.
+
+[22:03] It's like zing, you know what I mean? Like, wow, it's so hardcore, right? Um, so the stir fry uh that's oh, but she calls uh she she does use the uh Japanese word uh uh Ginamoto for uh MSG, but she just calls it taste powder, which is kind of an interesting attractive, yeah. Taste powder. What do you what are you adding to that, John?
+
+[22:23] I don't know, it doesn't need much else. Taste powder, taste powder, yeah. Um so yeah, I forget, I don't think I have it here. What the stir frying is a direct translation of, but it's uh it's hilarious. Like it that you know, uh uh and she also I must not have copied this part out because I thought I did.
+
+[22:41] Uh, she says that it's one of the seven great regrets of the world that Shad has so many bones. Shad, my favorite fish. And I was like, you are correct. Wow it is one of the seven great regrets of the world, not like death or war. You know what I mean?
+
+[22:59] Shad. Shad with all those bones. Speaking across the decades. Yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[23:03] Someone from the the 40s coming back and being like, you're right. It does. It sucks. Anyway, I wish I could introduce her to the 80-year-old lady who still uh fillets the shad for me in uh Connecticut, you know. Not in Norwalk though.
+
+[23:15] Sorry, Jack. Not gonna get good Shad in Norwalk. Sorry. Uh you're not. No.
+
+[23:21] Although you do have a good aquarium there. It's true. Oh, John, throwing shade on your aquarium. Wow. He's like I prefer to go up to Mystic when I do my aquarium work.
+
+[23:34] Mystic Aquarium is definitely better. Okay. I mean, it's nice to have the normal aquarium. Of course. Okay.
+
+[23:39] Oh, Mystic's better. That's yeah. All right, Mystic's a good aquarium. Designed uh the new edition there designed by Caesar Pelle. He just died recently.
+
+[23:47] My wife used to work for him. That was her first architecture job. Yeah. And uh I went to his 90th birthday party, which was kind of cool. And he was still with it, still sharp.
+
+[23:55] Interesting, you know. I guess be an architect, keep keep active, keep your brain active. Oh, going back to um uh the the book again. Um I was flipping through it also to see whether uh so that she uses the term defisher for any sort of thing that you add, like vinegar or ginger to cover up the aromas of fish. But I was looking for specific techniques that are very in vogue in terms of Chinese cooking now.
+
+[24:19] For instance, velveting prior to stir-frying on meat, and wasn't able to find anything in my quick kind of perusal. So I don't know whether it wasn't current in her group of cooks or whether that was like uh but it would be interesting to note kind of when that became part of the common lexicon of Chinese cooks when they were writing about it in Chinese, which is something I will never know. You know what I mean? But unless somebody who speaks Chinese tells me. Yeah, it's you're always at a disadvantage uh trying to understand something uh in a language you don't speak.
+
+[24:50] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because you're never gonna be you're never really gonna be part of it. You know what I mean? Uh all right. Uh William writes, I enjoy reading cookbooks and cocktail books.
+
+[25:00] I also suffer from a finite amount of bookshelf space. Uh I now prioritize uh prioritize only buying physical copies of books from Kitchen Arts and Letters, of course, that are, and they said that by the way, I'm not adding that. Uh that are really special or that I or that I think I will reference frequently. The rest I've been buying as ebooks because they don't take up shelf space, and I can read them wherever I want. They are also hideous though.
+
+[25:21] I prefer PDF books to uh Kindle books. I mean, Kindle's probably better for reading for portability, but in terms of the layout, I I've said this before on air. The publishers don't necessarily consult the author when they butcher it into a Kindle book. And so, like, I have no control over the layout of my book in Kindle format, and it's a horror show. Anyway, uh is there any way to purchase cookbookslash cocktail ebooks in such a way that it benefits indie bookstores or more directly authors instead of using something like Kindle?
+
+[25:54] If not, do you think there's any chance that opportunity might exist in the future? Uh there are a couple of different factors in that. Uh Kitchen Arts and Letters doesn't sell uh electronic books uh in any form, mostly because the uh publisher arrangements are sort of like they don't allow you to be selective. If you sign up to to do it, you have to do everything. Uh we are very much not that kind of bookstore.
+
+[26:23] Um I am ruthless and always telling myself I'm not sufficiently ruthless in what we choose to carry and not carry. So coming on board like that is uh and go doing everything would would be unattractive for us. Um there are also, as you have identified, issues with formatting and um and electronic books and PDFs have strengths, they have weaknesses. Um it's it some format may come along someday that makes it more satisfying. But you know, I I own some electronic books.
+
+[27:05] They're almost always simply books of text, nothing with illustrations because the illustration stuff just starts to go completely wonky um in ebooks, depending on what type of reader you're using. You know, am I looking at it on my phone, on an iPad, on a specialized device. Um I wish I had a better answer for that. But um that part of the industry sort of favors the big players. I mean, most of the industry favors the big players, but um in that particular one, I just don't see Kitchen Arts and Letters making an effort to get into it and a and um adapting ourselves and trying to reinvent everything from the ground up in order to make it a satisfying experience.
+
+[27:53] So in my apartment, what we did in our bedroom was we carved out an additional three feet of like basically space where the bed is, and in front of the bed, like w instead of a instead of a headboard, there is a floor to ceiling faced in the opposite direction bookcase. So that goes like the width of the bed, so that now I have the entire bookshelf wall that is behind the bed, and then the bookshelf itself kind of like double width, and it is hard to navigate in there, but it you know almost doubles your book storage space if you don't need that extra room around the foot of your bed. And what do you really need that extra room around the foot of your bed for? Uh to be honest. You know what I mean?
+
+[28:41] Like what are you gonna do with it? Nothing, right? Uh other things, um books, I think are it's not fun to have books kind of stored away, and I do have a lot of books stored away. But um, you know, if you have if you're a project-based person like like I am, sometimes you can have like uh a book bookshelves that are brought out for projects, almost like your own kind of like current reading library, and that's another way to kind of dense things up because you can put things away in bankers' boxes by uh title or not by title, by um subject, or by project, and then you you kind of know where they are. Uh so there are ways to um there are ways to not uh inconvenience everyone in the house with your horrible book habit.
+
+[29:28] But um I have to say I haven't fully solved it because there are books everywhere in my house, but uh you know, they stuffed in every cranny books, but you have any other like storage solutions? I'm a terrible person to ask that question of because I own a bookstore and I have 2,000 square feet of of book storage, so the the lines between my personal collection and the source collection are um are pretty nebulous. Um you're like the president of a university, you get to all the art that's not on display, you can just put in your office and everything. Exactly. Yeah.
+
+[30:02] Um so uh yeah, I I do keep a lot of books at home. Um but I sort of use the finite space that is allocated for food books there as a kind of limiter, and things go back to the store, things come to my house. Um so yeah, I'm I'm not helpful there. Yeah. Uh also like I think a lot comes down to like um I think there's a huge divide between people who cook out cook physically cook out of books, like books in the kitchen versus reading books and then not having the book in the kitchen when you're cooking.
+
+[30:37] I'm pretty much that. I don't hardly ever I know you're the other way, right? You keep you bring books to the kitchen sometimes. I don't it depends on the book. You know, if it's something that I haven't no experience with, yeah, it's gonna be with me uh in the kitchen.
+
+[30:50] But there are lots of books that I, you know, I'll I'll read the recipe, put the book back on the shelf and go in the kitchen and cook. It all depends on my comfort level with the particular type of cooking. Um I I keep a stack of books at home that are books that are new that I want to spend time with because I I feel that they could be really something interesting and I want to be able to talk to people very specifically about them. And if I'm gonna cook, say, out of the new Nick Sharma Vegetable Book, I'm not gonna like close that book and put it on the shelf and then go in the kitchen and do it my way because I need to understand Nick's way. So I will for a book that I'm working from the first time, it's definitely gonna be in the kitchen and used.
+
+[31:33] But lots of other books, it's like, oh, I remember that. I did that before. It was great. It needed more hot sauce or you know, more butter. Is that usually the answer?
+
+[31:42] More hot sauce, more butter. I mean, those are good answers. It's it's uh it's a pretty common pair of techniques, yeah. Yeah. So uh from uh Will Robinson, who um coincidentally it's his mom who's the butterball expert who's going to be able to do that.
+
+[32:00] Oh, seriously. Yeah. Uh wants to say, uh recently been rereading Alfred Russell Wallace's The Melee Arch Do you say art how do you I never say the archipelago? How do you say it? Archipelago?
+
+[32:11] I would have said archipelago. Archipelago. Any other alternative pronunciations here? Nope. Okay.
+
+[32:16] Uh the Melee Archipelago for the first time since college. And I'm wondering if there are any broad modern text dealing specifically with the culinary biodiversity in the Indonesian region. That's a mouthful of a sentence, Will, to get out without stumbling. Um looking at uh Pikafeta's Philippine picnic on your web store, and it will probably have to pick that up. And we'll probably have to pick that up.
+
+[32:36] What do you think? You have the book here, what do you think? I did, I brought it along. It is a fun little book. I this is a piece of scholarship I really admire from a Philippine uh Filipino writer named uh Felice Santamaria, who is engaged in sort of a vast exploration of the interaction between the Philippines and that part of the world and and the new world.
+
+[32:59] She's particularly interested in the connections between uh Manila and Acapulco because of the Spanish galleons going back and forth. This is you know, obviously a tangential subject. But getting back to Will's question, I'm not aware of um of anything current that sort of tackles that subject. In part, I think it would be a pretty vast project given the the biodiversity in that part of the world. And the books that I can think of that even try to get to burrow into that tend to get into the weeds very quickly, even for more refined areas.
+
+[33:40] So like Virgilio Martinez's books about um indigenous uh foods in Peru. Um he's done two at this point and um two and a half. Um and they're all incredibly focused on a limited number of ingredients, even though there's a lot more out there that he could be talking about. It's how he can keep coming back and doing more books. I think Indonesia's got to be just so loaded with uh possibilities that it would be a multi-volume encyclopedia.
+
+[34:13] And no one's done it yet. Not in English. It could be, you know, it could exist in any number of um other languages, but um I haven't seen it in English. All right. All right, sorry, Will.
+
+[34:28] Uh Monty says, I really enjoy the well, not sorry, but I mean like, you know, it's not your fault, Matt. Well, I mean, somebody may be out there and say, actually, Matt's wrong and and type up and say so. I need to hear that kind of thing, though. I mean, because that's how we make discoveries. We rely on customers coming to us and saying, I can't believe you didn't know about this.
+
+[34:49] Well, we used to do stump Matt. We never could stomp you. No. I mean, we we did find um about a year and a half ago about a 600-page book on Jamaican food, just on Jamaica. Um, and it's a serious ethnological, biological study of all types of finished dishes, of local crop plants, of forage plants, and so forth.
+
+[35:18] And Jamaica versus Indonesia, I mean the scale of things is such that I think anybody who really tried to do a serious job would need six, seven books. How's that Jamaican book? It's good. It's strong. I'm sorry I can't remember the author's name.
+
+[35:36] The title is simply Jamaican food. Um and it's published by the University of Jamaica Press. Um Good Provenance. Good proven. I mean, yeah, I mean he sort of passed muster with with people who who would have been there knowing this all the time.
+
+[35:52] It wasn't like it came from the University of Wyoming Press, which might have taken the subject very seriously, but Wyoming. No offense. Less likely to have somebody on staff with uh with the knowledge. So um, yeah, I was really impressed. Um my shout out to my colleague Laura Jackson, who found the book and said, God, we have to have this.
+
+[36:11] Nice. All right. Uh Monty writes in, I really enjoyed the book, All the Tea in China. Who wrote that again? That was uh it's called it's not that's not the full title, right?
+
+[36:21] All the tea in It's all the tea in China. Blah blah blah. Like I can think of like three How England stole the world's famous drink and change history by Sarah Rose. Yes. Okay.
+
+[36:30] Uh let's assume that that's the one. Uh that was when was that? That was let's see. I forget. 2010?
+
+[36:40] Yeah. Uh about the history of tea. Uh any other similar uh books about spice spices and such. I brought my uh old school uh Frederick uh Rosengarten just because I'll push those books whenever I can, especially the Nuts book. The Nuts book is uh there is nothing that comes close to to rivaling that book still after what 35 years?
+
+[37:02] I mean, just 40 years? Just the description of people getting killed by uh Brazil nuts falling out of trees is worth the price of admission. Like, you know, he's a every year some people die from nuts falling out of trees from like a hundred feet in the air and killing them when it hits them on the head. I'm like, wow. It's a brutal world.
+
+[37:21] Yeah, for not for not a great nut. I mean, let's be honest. Brazil nuts, fine. Wait, Joe, are you the one that loves Brazil nuts? You're the Brazil nut freak, right?
+
+[37:30] No, no, someone's a Brazil nut freak, but I mean, it's not the best nut, right? I mean, it's a big nut. Is anyone think Brazil nuts are the best nut? Anyone? Not even top ten.
+
+[37:44] No. Well, top ten. I uh that's hardcore. 10's pretty wide. I don't know.
+
+[37:49] I mean, like, you know, I would say macadamia better than Brazil for a high fat nut that's texture based. If you're gonna go for a high fat texture-based nut that's not a flavor-based nut, macadamia. Right? I mean, is it you would think? I mean, that's a good textured nut to macadamia.
+
+[38:07] Yeah, yeah. Not that my not my top flavor nut, but you know, agreed. Yeah, yeah. Uh like what else? I mean, pistachio is great.
+
+[38:16] Yeah, pecan, great, hickory, great, walnut, great. So, how many have we done there? They then cashew, great. Uh, you know, then almonds, almonds can be great. Love love a good almond.
+
+[38:29] Almond is a really great cooking nut. Almonds are fantastic, and also it's very diverse almond. Uh, what else you got, Quinn? Give me some more nuts. We gotta get to 10.
+
+[38:39] What? Hazelnut? Oh, yes. What's the difference between a hazelnut and a filbert? Is there a difference between a hazelnut and a filbert?
+
+[38:44] When I was growing up in Oregon, they said no, but they said no? Yeah. Yeah. It was just a matter of nomenclature. Yeah, no one in America says filbert, am I right?
+
+[38:53] Oregonians say Filberts. Really? Yeah, everybody there grew the people I know who had orchards grew filberts. Wow. That may have changed.
+
+[39:00] Did they grow filberts but sell hazelnuts? Yeah. You know, I I can remember driving past the orchards. I they all said filberts. Nobody ever said nobody ever said we the uh raised hazelnuts.
+
+[39:13] When you get the Bazini can of nuts, like the 10 pound can, they say filberts on the side. Really? They're uh as far as New York City nut vendors go, they're old old school. Yeah. You know?
+
+[39:27] Big company. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And guess what didn't make this?
+
+[39:30] Oh, we're counting peanuts. No. Yes, but no. I mean, obviously they're eaten like a nut, but clearly not a nut, but also amazing and diverse. Well, aren't aren't walnuts or peach cans also not nuts?
+
+[39:42] No, they're both. What do you mean? They're both nuts. I don't think there's a botanical definition of them. Although they're from a group.
+
+[39:48] Well nuts from a group. They're nuts. They're nuts. Pretty sure. Someone someone checked me on it.
+
+[39:55] Those are nuts. Peanuts grow under the ground, not a nut. You know what I mean? Like a nut, you know, ground nuts. You know what I mean?
+
+[40:06] These ground nuts. Well, nuts, nuts are like spices. It's sort of uh, you know, you call something that because you describe the way it gets used. Right. Um, but that I I thought this was a really interesting question because there is a new book called The History and Natural History of Spices by a British geologist.
+
+[40:29] Of all things named Ian Campbell. It's just come out in the last two months from something called the History Press, which is a small British publisher. He is an organizational compulsive, which actually makes access to the book really interesting. He has the book is full of charts about what do we know about the first uses of this. When did we, you know, when is the earliest sign of the spice trade?
+
+[41:00] And again and again, as you flip through the book, you can see these tables in which he's leading you off into all kinds of different research rabbit holes. And his citations are strong. He's done a really good job of of presenting you with the information to go even deeper. But he's um systematic in his approach to families of spices, those which come from, say, the ginger family. Um while he's not the world's most compelling pro-stylist, he's also um a clear, understandable writer.
+
+[41:38] He's not um it's not one of those cases where someone's enthusiasm for the subject leads them to just sort of tumble on and on and on. Uh he can write a good clear declarative sentence and pair it well with the next one. Um and I'm I'm really impressed with the book. It's it's on my table for further indulgence. So uh well, not the snappiest, also not long-winded.
+
+[42:04] Yeah, no, he's he he he understands how to get a point across in a way that is. There are people who whose writing you become very conscious of them as a writer. He's not that person. He is a, you know. One sentence follows the other in a clear and logical order that makes it easy to read.
+
+[42:28] You're you're not indulging in flights of lyrical fancy. Um and spice is a subject that could easily lend itself to that. Because uh a lot of other people have been led down that path, and and as a writer, you might also be tempted to do that. He resists it, and I think he it allows him to convey a great deal more information. Here's something uh so uh I'm just a asking.
+
+[42:54] So when you read things, descriptions of flavors, and this spices made me think of this. Like, what the he what the heck are you supposed to do as a writer? I just tasted like um recently 30 different infusions, right? For you know, because I'm right, you know, redoing. And uh after a while I'm like, it just tastes like friggin' infused stuff.
+
+[43:15] Tastes like roots. I mean, like I can't think of new things to say. Like, what are you supposed to do as like a uh like how am I supposed to explain to you what Valerian tastes like? You know what I mean? Like, I'll taste one that I'm really familiar with.
+
+[43:28] I'm like, oh, you know what this tastes like? It tastes like hibiscus. You know what I mean? Like because it's so crappy just to say, well, it's bright and acidic, kind of red, you know what I mean? Like what do you what are you supposed to do?
+
+[43:40] Well, I think everybody's ability to describe flavors depends on it something of a common frame of reference. I mean, if you you're writing for somebody who hasn't already tasted a number of things, it's really difficult to say, I mean, how do you describe cinnamon to somebody who has never had an encounter with much in the way of spices at all? If somebody whose in entire palate is grown up, say, in a cuisine that is herbally focused, something like a spice is it's it's it's tough sledding. So I mean you can't not resort to comparisons. Right.
+
+[44:19] You can't, and also like at a certain point, yeah, at a certain point, it's it's difficult, right? I mean, certain things also like are very clear, but also very hard to describe. How do you describe gentiin? You know what I mean? Like d dirty, we like there's a a gention, like a dusty, there's a gention flavor.
+
+[44:41] How do I describe genshin? If you don't know what it tastes like, how the hell am I gonna tell you what it tastes like? You know what I mean? Well, wine writers come across that same thing too. And sometimes I think they isn't that why people hate wine writers.
+
+[44:51] They overdo it, is what I was striving at. Yeah. I mean, like I have very rarely detected all the flavors in a in some glasses of wine that are that are attributed to it. Um and I'm you know, I'm content to believe that maybe my palate is simply not um developed enough to to spec to detect all those things, but I also think that it's just they're probably some pumps some some poor soul on a deadline. It's like, okay, I have to write 15 more of these, and no one's gonna know the difference.
+
+[45:25] Right. If I say it tastes like civet. Uh because who's tasted Civet? Right. That's kind of what I'm re being reduced to on these things, but I don't want to do that because I hate that.
+
+[45:35] You know what I mean? I don't like I I'll if something tastes like civet to me, I'm gonna tell you. Like my favorite used to be this tastes like giant water bug essence. You know what I mean? Not real giant water bug, because I'm not an expert.
+
+[45:46] I'm just an expert in the artificial giant water bug essence that you buy at the local mart. You know what I mean? But anywho. Uh all right. But in the remaining 14 minutes that we have left before we need to talk turkey.
+
+[45:59] Uh what do you what'd you bring? Okay. Um I brought a variety of classics today. Uh one of them I think we'll start with is the old Waldorf Astoria Bar Book by Albert S. Crockett.
+
+[46:11] Uh Crockett was a journalist who sort of eased his way into being um a press man for the old Waldorf uh Astoria Hotel. And um this is a book that was published just after the end of Prohibition. Um he had done an earlier version during Prohibition that was a collection of uh sort of recipes for things that people couldn't make. But in this case, he f uh once it was legal to actually make cocktails again, uh he fleshed it out with more stories about people who were patrons of the hotel and of the bar. Um and it's a interesting book because it's part of an effort to restore in the United States the idea of cocktail making as a serious craft.
+
+[47:05] It's been 13 years since people could make a living publicly making cocktails and at least, right? 1919 to 33. Yeah, 14 years. So it's um there's been a real fall off. And he is in part trying to uh reinvigorate the idea that that there's an art here that needs to be picked up and practiced.
+
+[47:30] Um it's an interesting book because the recipes themselves would are very surprising to somebody who's used to contemporary American cocktail recipes. Uh some ingredients like vermouth predominate in a way that they're um they're just not that common now. So the sort of the current joke that uh, you know, if you you like a martini, you sort of wave a the vermouth in the direction of the glass and then just drink the gin. Some of these cocktails are are 50% vermouth. Right.
+
+[48:03] Well, you know, uh in the intro, he you know he started, I guess, either working for them or being a patron in, you know, what was known as the gay 90s, right? Which was only 30 years or so after the original bar manuals were being written. They're all extremely vermouth heavy, right? Um, I didn't get a chance to look through it, but like uh I think also this is the one where everything let a lot of things have like a dash of absinthe and and and stuff like this. I'd be curious to go back and look at the recipes.
+
+[48:33] A lot of those super vermouth heavy recipes I really enjoy. So um I think I called you or we discussed at some point some of the early kind of maybe I was talking about it with one rich, some of the early bar compendiums that were just written by an editorial team. Um I forget the name name of them, but uh I was making a bunch of the early Manhattan variants that are very heavily vermouth, and I kind of like them a lot. They're kind of good, yeah. Uh but so one thing a question I have about this, and as you say, I think this was kind of the first or the most famous anyway, of these kind of lost art things that became the driving force behind the cocktail renaissance in the early 2000s, in, you know, at least in the United States, in New York at least.
+
+[49:17] Um this narrative that something is lost and could not be regained, but did exist in other places. And I wonder how many other people before this were pushing that narrative, or whether this was to be kind of beginning of that narrative, which still is the dominant narrative today, interestingly, or at least 15 years ago. Do you know of any other people that were pushing that narrative that hard? Um, I don't, in part because I think a lot of the other books were not as narratively driven. Right.
+
+[49:45] As this one, I mean, here, uh, what are we he's got the first 20, 30 pages of this book or background, and he often stops and diverts himself with stories about people. So he he makes that point and returns to it uh in numerous places through the book. And I think part of also what he's doing, because let's be honest, he was a press man for the old Rodolf Hart story is putting forth the idea that something magical is be is being recreated at the old Wald Arfastoria. Exactly. And it's in, you know, it snappy writing.
+
+[50:21] Yeah, snap, snap, snappy writing, good writing. Um He's a great storyteller. Yeah, you know, like any time someone pines over something lost, it makes me a little bit nervous. You know what I mean? Anytime hates the current because they're pining for something lost, right?
+
+[50:38] I'm sure that often it's true, but you know, given what people typically pine for as things that are lost all throughout the different periods of my own actual life, things I've seen. Like so in the 80s, people pining for things that were lost. In the 90s, people pining. 2000s, you know, you know, we all know. Anyway, my point being that it's interesting that this narrative of something lost because of prohibition because of this kind of law, I think, never got re-evaluated as something.
+
+[51:09] In other words, he his opinion was never reevaluated as something that needed to be reevaluated. Someone's saying, no, actually, you know, the drinks in the late 30s in in uh in America were good. You know what I mean? Like uh, I mean, because everybody thinks post-war American drinks sucked. You know what I mean?
+
+[51:25] So I think it all kind of gets lumped in. It's like prohibition was over and we didn't get good again, with the exception of certain kind of tropical drink recipes until you know the 2000s, which is uh, I don't know, it's it's interesting, right? That that there hasn't been a critical reassessment of that. Well, I mean you always have to ask who's telling the story. Uh you know, is it somebody who's gatekeeping?
+
+[51:44] Like I have knowledge that was entrusted to me through some secret connection I have to peep somebody who was there. Uh is it somebody who's say, I have knowledge and now I'm sharing with you, and therefore you should regard me as an authority. I mean, all of those things are factors in any book that you're getting, no matter what the subject matter is. Um how much is this worth by the way, the original? A lot.
+
+[52:07] This is an expensive book. Um, there are reprints around. Uh they're not beautiful pieces of reprint. You could probably pick one up for less than $20. I'd look to see if Cocktail Kingdom has this.
+
+[52:19] They don't. Um they might want to think about that because they do good reprints. 33 is not public domain though yet, is it? I have to check. It's on the cusp.
+
+[52:29] Yeah. But this is a first edition from 1934, and it's $1,350. And this is one has it was actually rebound before we got it. So a copy that was not rebound uh would probably be more worth more. That was rebound?
+
+[52:45] Yeah. Yeah. You can see that it's been what relationship does this have to the 2016 Waldorf Astoria book that came out. Uh again, is any of the original in the new one or no? I don't think so.
+
+[52:58] I think that's all. All right. And in the 20th century material. In the in the small amount of time we have left, um, you wanted to uh call out some other books, but we're gonna have to I think do them quickly. What what other books did you want to uh call out?
+
+[53:09] Uh a few things worth paying attention to if you see uh come across them in the world, Pop and Sustenance by Mary Taylor Semeti, uh, which is uh a book about the history of Sicilian food. It starts with Homer and goes on. Um she is a trained historian. She's also a really uh gifted writer, and um she makes a great case. This this book has also simply been called Sicilian Food in some formats.
+
+[53:35] It's had several different editions. Still in still in print? It is, but not easy to get because it's a small publisher with weak distribution. But maybe maybe I could find it at a store like Kitchen Arts and Letters. Kitchen Arts and Letters has it.
+
+[53:45] I pulled this off the shelf today on my way here. And it's it's really worth reading, you're saying. It's a great book. It is a really wonderful piece of scholarship, and it's the kind of thing that will make you wish you had a similar book for other parts of the holidays. Maybe people should think into uh getting this book because it's one I haven't read it, I don't know it.
+
+[54:00] Really? You didn't know? No. I didn't think I could surprise you with that. Um it's a it's a really smart book.
+
+[54:04] She's done some other writing about Sicilian food as well. There's a book called On Persephone's Island, also by her that is in print from Canaf uh in a vintage paperback book. That is a year of living in Sicily and going through the harvests and the festivals and things like that. So no recipes, but very much contemporary Sicilian culture, but still um a lot of historical context. Really really pay attention to anything she writes.
+
+[54:30] Joe, you're gonna want to check this one out, huh? Uh all right. What else? What if we gotta hurry? Flavors of the Riviera by Coleman Andrews.
+
+[54:37] This is a book about the stretch between Nice and the Tuscan border. So a lot of Liguria, but also some French. I mean, control of that area switched back and forth between different countries for a long time. So he's treating it as a more of a unit. Um not sort of saying, oh, well, the French do it this way and the Italians do it this way, because it doesn't make sense in that part of the world.
+
+[55:05] This book came out uh mid-90s, uh I think very strong. It's still a tough part of the world to find books out. There's a little bit more contemporary writing about Liguria, but Coleman has always had a great appreciation for history, and it's a rich part of this book. So contrasted super quickly with like, for instance, a Mediterranean feast, which treats the entire Mediterranean, including North Africa and you know, Anatoly and all this as kind of one unit. Like it seems like no one really reads that one anymore, right?
+
+[55:33] Uh what was it called? Uh Clifford. Clifford Wright, yeah. That's a that's an amazing book. It is big and heavy, and I think it intimidates people sometimes because of its size.
+
+[55:43] And it's got an he's got an edge verb, like writing. He like at least my memory, it's been 20 years since I've read it. It's been 20 years since I've read it. It doesn't come to me in my memory that way. Um, I mean, I think that was in a very impressive piece of of scholarship.
+
+[55:56] That's a great book. Um, and the fact that so much unites it. I uh I think it was a strong piece of scholarship, but it was just a little too big, I think, for a lot of people. Yeah. Uh and at the time people didn't want heavy books.
+
+[56:09] People still mentally heavy books. People still resist it. Yeah. You know, this we speak to it on obviously. I think if that book came out today, it would have a wider readership, though.
+
+[56:18] Not mean if it was shorter, but the same subject, I think it would have a wider readership. I don't know. I I sometimes despair about books that are um that ask people to uh sort of blur lines. Yeah. All right.
+
+[56:36] And super quick, the last one. Because this one uh, you know, she's still alive, which I didn't even know. I hear America Cooking, Betty of a Sell. This looks at six specifically American regional cuisines. Um basically New Mexico, there's also the the Delta South, there is the rest of the South, there's New England, there's the Midwest Great Lakes, and then there's the Pacific Northwest.
+
+[57:02] So 2023 eyes, 26 years later, after this was written, does it still hold together or is it problematic? Have you looked at it recently? Uh I looked at it uh very recently, and I think in some ways it's um it's anticipating things that haven't happened yet. Um she was sort of hoping that certain things would gel. She was her argument about some of these places having really distinctive cuisines was was pretty forward thinking.
+
+[57:29] Um but particularly her Pacific Northwest sort of ecotopia cuisine point of view. I don't think it's I don't think it took. No, cool. Now uh thank you so much for coming on, Matt. And stick uh if you can, it'd be awesome to stick around because we're uh gonna talk turkey for the last uh last half hour.
+
+[57:49] But thanks for these these books. And I really I'm gonna I'm gonna check out that pop and and sustenance. How much how much does that one go for on on the website? Can we get a Patreon discount on that one? I I I have to set that up.
+
+[57:58] Let me uh let me go back to the store and check stock. It's been short. We'll work on it. Maybe for next week. Next week?
+
+[58:04] Yeah. Yeah. All right. Cool. Uh all right.
+
+[58:07] So we will be uh starting up in just a minute with Barbara Robinson from Butterball. That's a good word. Butterball. Remember, Harry, it's Marion's first holiday turkey. Not a word if it's dry.
+
+[58:56] It's her first turkey. It will be juicy. What they don't know is Marion's first turkey is America's first turkey, butterball. It's always juicy because it's specially deep basted, so every slice is moist and tender. Juicy turkey, Marion.
+
+[59:12] I knew it would be. After all, it's Butterball. Also available fresh. We are Beatrice. And we're back.
+
+[59:21] Guess what about the turkey? It won't be juicy. Love that. We're joined with super special guest, uh, Barbara Robinson from the Butterball Turkey Talk Line. How are you doing?
+
+[59:34] Hi, Jay. It is uh great. How are you? Fantastic. It's uh it's an honor to have uh have you on official.
+
+[59:41] Official, there's a couple of people that we've had on where I'm like super excited. Like we had on the person who invented uh Fudgy the Whale and uh that you know, so like someone who's that was amazing. And so but like actually talking to uh so you're you're you're a supervisor at kind of like World Turkey headquarters at Thanksgiving time, right? How do you get that job? Absolutely, yes.
+
+[1:00:06] How do you how do you get that job? All of us here are foodies. We're like like you and your listeners. We all love to cook, we all love to research cooking, we all have education in nutrition and foods. Um we have dietitians and food scientists, um, we have chefs who work here, we have college instructors, um, all of us, uh let's see, dining directors, all of us have a true interest and the education in foods, but we do go through rigorous training, uh all about turkeys, of course.
+
+[1:00:42] And uh, I'm one of the trainers now. I'm a supervisor. I've been here for 16 years. All right, so don't answer I'm gonna ask you I'm gonna ask you a bunch of things, and please do not answer them if you're not allowed to answer them or if I ask a bad question. And by the way, anyone that happens to be listening live on the Patreon, call in to 917-410-1507.
+
+[1:01:03] That's 917-410-1507 for your personal Butterball Turkey Talk. Um, all right. So, how often when you're supervising, are you like listening to other people answering questions? You're like, no, no, that's wrong. Like, does that happen a lot?
+
+[1:01:18] Do you cut in? Do you like stop people when they're saying stuff that you disagree with or or what? Well, um, we as I mentioned, we do a lot of trainings. Uh okay, I do listen to some of our turkey experts answering calls. I can, of course, only hear one side of the calls.
+
+[1:01:37] But um, I will periodically just hear something I think that's not quite right. So I I will, yeah. I will mention to them the way they were trained and really the the butterball way. You know, there are a lot of ways to cook turkeys, of course, a lot of ways, uh a lot of different methods of cooking, but we do have the the butterball methods that we do recommend because we're all about food safety here. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[1:02:01] Yeah. So that's one of the things I was gonna ask is uh what what's the temperature that you guys uh recommend that you have to get to in the in the thigh? Okay, we recommend 180 degrees in the thigh, 170 degrees in the breast area. That's frustrating and 165 in the stuffing. Yeah.
+
+[1:02:22] Oh, and you guys are okay with stuffing? Do you prefer to? Yeah. All right. Go ahead.
+
+[1:02:28] No, go ahead. What do you think? Like you so like uh do you recommend like I do like a hot stuff when I'm gonna stuff so that I don't like so it's already up to up to 10, but how do you guys uh how do you guys guarantee food safety on a stuffed bird? Is it just because they're you don't recommend doing it on the giant birds? I notice you guys mainly recommend smaller size turkeys like sub 22, right?
+
+[1:02:51] Um, I would say that's a more common size, yes. And if the turkey is very large, we would not recommend that you stuff it. But people stuffing is very popular, and people do like to stuff their turkeys if they like a moisture stuffing because of all those juices from the bird that go into the stuffing. But you're very wise to to put a warm stuffing in there. That is why we recommend 165 degrees in the stuffing.
+
+[1:03:18] We recommend that people do take the temperature of the stuffing. Yeah, now again, don't answer this, but at home, do you really cook it that high? Do you really take it to that temperature? You don't have to answer. Of course I do.
+
+[1:03:32] Actually, I prefer uh the crispy stuffing, so I'll generally put it in a casserole on the side. Yeah, yeah. I do both. Personally. I do both.
+
+[1:03:41] Do you do you cover it first and then uncover it to crisp up the top? Actually, the the butterball method is two-thirds of the way through cooking time. So if you're cooking your turkey for three plus or minus three hours, after two hours, we would say place a tent of foil, uh, which of course isn't wrapping the the turkey and foil. It's just placing a a sheet of foil that is uh creased down the center, and just place that so that the breast area and the thighs don't get over browned or overcooked. Yeah.
+
+[1:04:14] So we say at the end. So something oh no, but I meant on the stuffing though, when you do your stuffing in the casserole. I always cover it for I always cover it for the first like almost until the end and then crisp it up just at the last well, whatever. We're talking turkey, not stuffing anyway. I thought what I thought was interesting.
+
+[1:04:31] Sounds delicious. Yeah. I thought it was interesting is that you guys recommend putting a couple quarter onions underneath the turkey on the tray as a way to lift it off, presumably I guess to get the bottom browner, like kind of as a natural kind of lift. Is that what it's for? Um, yes.
+
+[1:04:49] And for flavoring too. We actually recommend that you cook your turkey in an open roasting pan on a rack. But if someone doesn't have a rack, then we recommend a coil of foil, which is yeah, and you probably know what that is. They make a snake and then just curl it into a crown shape and place that under your turkey. But of course, onions, carrots, celery can all be used as a rack for your turkey.
+
+[1:05:17] And that gives the drippings a wonderful flavor, of course, and the house smells wonderful too. I read in uh an interview you gave that there is a microwave technique that you say is actually delicious, but you also say it's quite complicated. Care to go into it. First of all, what size turkey can I do using the method? All right, you doing the microwave cook, you need to have a turkey that's 12 pounds pounds or under.
+
+[1:05:43] And we actually had you probably I'm not sure if I had said that. Um, we had a there was a trend going on where all these college students told their moms they were going to cook in the they were gonna cook their holiday turkey in the microwaves. And the moms were crazy about it. They were all calling us. But um, it is a complicated method.
+
+[1:06:04] Uh I just I have it in front of me. You it's where you have to use 30% power for 20 to 26 minutes per pound, dividing that time into four intervals. So um it's it does take a long time. You can't leave the kitchen when you're cooking in a microwave and you need to flip the bird and and turn it if you don't have the turntable in your microwave. So it is a complicated method, but uh it's certainly it actually produces a delicious turkey.
+
+[1:06:34] And some people won't have a uh, you know, the actual oven, they'll only have a microwave if they're um in college or in a hotel or you know, just in a small apartment. So it can be done. I like that uh it's Thanksgiving. I'm in a hotel with a kitchenette microwave. I'm like, I gotta cook a turkey.
+
+[1:06:56] You know what I mean? And I somehow go to like a store. Yeah, yeah. Uh it's those holiday traditions. Yeah.
+
+[1:07:03] I mean, like uh how was how long does it take at the 30% power and all the flipping and and how like how many how many hours does it take of tending your microwave to get the turkey to come out? It's actually pretty quick, depending on the size of your turkey. It takes about an hour and a half to two hours. Uh-huh but very hands on, as I said. It's pretty quick.
+
+[1:07:24] Well, and it's a smaller turkey. I you know, I guess if you only have a microwave, you're not making a lot of sides anyway, right? Because you don't, you know, you have nothing else. Yeah. Uh that's true.
+
+[1:07:34] So do or do you guys have to like uh for safety reasons, like tell people not to deep fry their turkeys or what? Oh no. Uh deep frying a turkey is a really popular method, especially in the south, because of course I'm in the Chicagoland area, and we it's cold here, and so um generally people will deep fry outside using their um using their fryer, but um it's very popular. We do have a lot of rules, and let me just mention here for your listeners, you can call 1800 Butterball and we will answer all your turkey questions, or you can text us at 844 877 3456, and we have literally all the answers. We have our our knowledge base uh digital binder where we can give you any kind of information that you would need.
+
+[1:08:23] But um yeah, the deep frying, it's it's a very popular method. We just say, of course, make sure your turkey is totally thawed, and then you need to pet pet pat it dry, totally dry that turkey. But sure, it it's actually great results. Yeah, you know, the f the first time I did it uh years and years and years ago, uh the problem I had was uh it was so cold that day where I was. It was in New York State, you know, you know, Westchester, just north of New York City.
+
+[1:08:54] It was so cold that the propane tank wasn't delivering uh gas enough to do anything. So I went into the garage and over-drilled the orifice so that I could get enough gas out of it. And I don't know what I did, but I finally got so much flame coming out of that thing. It was ripping, and when I stuck the turkey in, I had like there was a through cave. You know how like most of the time turkeys, you can't actually you can't wear it like a sleeve.
+
+[1:09:26] You know what I mean? You most of the time you right. So this one you could wear it like a sleeve. You could, you could, you could put it through your hand and wave it over your head with your fist, you know, with your fist through one and out the other. And it created a Versailles-like fountain of oil because of the convection that could go through the turkey.
+
+[1:09:45] And it it it erupted from the fryer uh um, you know, pot and then sprayed oil all over the lawn and completely obli turkey delicious, completely obliterated, completely obliterated the uh the lawn in that area. So that ruined Thanksgiving for my stepfather. And then I, you know, I thought I would never fry another turkey again at their house. I mean, I've done it many times, even in in commercial deep fryers, but um, which, you know, are oriented the other way, so easier. But I did it, he my mom was like, Let's fry the turkey again.
+
+[1:10:23] I was like, What are you nuts? I killed the thing. She's like, No, you're gonna do it, you're gonna do it on the patio, but then oil got on the flagstone and it was again freezing, and he was out there hosing down the flagstone like for all of Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving completely ruined twice that way, but no fires. No fires.
+
+[1:10:38] You guys, good. Yeah, I I yeah. I was just gonna say now, you you you need to mention to your listeners, these these are not recommended. We we don't recommend the the fountain of Versailles coming out of your out of your fryer. Um, you know, we're we're all about food safety.
+
+[1:10:54] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, if not just food safety for yeah, food safety like uh your house not burning down. I mean, people uh a non-zero number of people's house burn down by frying their turkeys outside, right? Oh, you know, that one I've I've not heard. Yeah.
+
+[1:11:08] But uh, you know, you see the videos online, it it makes it a little makes you cautious. Yeah. All right, so we have a question for you. Uh in Australia, we don't do Thanksgiving, but oh, by the way, I have a question. I'm gonna ask this just at the outset.
+
+[1:11:22] Do you ask people where they got their turkey or whether it's a butterball when they call in, or can people with non-brand turkeys ask you questions if they if they don't say what brand it is? What how how often does it happen if someone's like it's not a butterball? Can I still ask you a question? Does that come up or not? Sure, sure.
+
+[1:11:37] People ask that a lot. Or they'll talk about the pop-up timer, which Butterball does not have. Yeah. So when they start talking about that, we know right away that it's uh the the truth comes out. But that's okay.
+
+[1:11:49] We help everyone. We have all kinds of we have recipes for mashed potatoes and stuffing and the side dishes at Butterball.com. So we help everyone. We we are we're the the turkey helpline. We're the 911 for turkey problems.
+
+[1:12:05] The pop-up timer's a horror show, isn't it? Oh my goodness. Oh my gosh, yeah. Hey, it's too late. That's what the timer says.
+
+[1:12:13] Too late. You know what I mean? Um anyway. Uh in Australia, we don't do Thanksgiving, but for whatever reason, uh, we basically just steal all the Thanksgiving recipe off the Yanks. That would be us, and serve it for Christmas.
+
+[1:12:25] In the spirit of that, last year, uh, I did uh my ma my mom, uh uh my mom's Parker House rolls, served it with uh duckriettes and cornichon as the only other thing uh better than a bun overloaded with butter is a shredded duck overloaded with duck fat. It wasn't good, it was good. Uh continuing in the spirit of stealing. Uh turkey help, brine, don't brine, hipster brine, which they call dry brine, which is by the way, that's just salting. That's salting.
+
+[1:12:52] Dry brining is salting. Uh yeah. Uh cooking uh crown separate to the legs, I guess, you know, or I guess breaking it apart. Uh I'll add spatch cocking to that. Uh am I that fancy?
+
+[1:13:05] Probably not. Uh it's usually about 40 degrees Celsius here. That's hot as heck on Christmas Day, I guess, because they're flipped through us. So not everything translates well, but I love a new idea. You know, if they're not, if they're not American and they don't need to serve the bird presented as a whole bird, I mean, don't you think spatch cocking is a good way to go or what?
+
+[1:13:23] What what do you what would you say? What would Butterball say to this Australian? Sure. Well, there are a lot of ways of cooking a turkey, and spatch cocking is a great method because it cooks so much faster once you've got your turkey splayed out. Um, but uh it's when you talked about brining, um the the butterball turkey, we we pre-based our uh the breast area so that it does have a salt solution in it.
+
+[1:13:50] It's not necessary, but you certainly can. You can you can brine your turkey. There's so many, there's no right or wrong ways to cook your turkey. Those are they're all good methods. Now, doesn't Butterball, the name Butterball, didn't they used to like in like inject like under the skin some sort of fat?
+
+[1:14:07] That's not in the brine that's in the breast, though, right? I'm sorry, underneath the wasn't there some didn't it when I was a kid or did it just seem that way? Because I can't remember. I'm afraid it just seemed that way, yeah. We never actually used butter in the recipe, but it it looked like a butterball.
+
+[1:14:22] So it was all about the look, and that's how the name came about. Yeah, Nastasia, I think she had to leave for a minute. Hopefully she's back. Oh, I'm here. I'm gonna go.
+
+[1:14:32] Oh, okay. So I have a question on Nastasia's behalf. And so Nastasia, every year we joke that you know the that her mom is going to cook the turkey until it sounds hollow when wrapped, like a loaf of bread. Uh now, how can is there any way that Nastasia can do you have like advice for comfortably telling people not to overcook uh a turkey? Like, is there any sort of like therapy advice that you give to people to so that they can like you know broach this subject without causing family disputes?
+
+[1:15:05] You know, we we do a lot of therapy here. You'd be amazed. We we have 50 turkey experts who are all very compassionate and very helpful. Um, you know, that's why we say, and you uh you love it too, I'm sure. Then that's why we say use a thermometer.
+
+[1:15:22] We say if you take the temperature of your turkey, look for certain temperatures, you it it's fine. We we often get people who will call and say, Well, I cooked it to 170 degrees, and then I put it in for an extra half an hour just to be sure. So yeah To be sure of what? So yeah, I know, I know. It's uh you know, in the when we were all very young, the turkeys were very large and they were not bred to be to have the all that breast meat and to be tender.
+
+[1:15:53] So people did cook their turkeys for a long time and they basted them. Um so times have changed and uh you know, we've uh we try to encourage people to to just take the temperature of the bird and uh and go with that. Now, how much of a rise am I gonna get though? So if like I again I know it a lot depends on a lot, right? So, but with your what's your recommended temperature for the for the main through 350, something like this?
+
+[1:16:21] We recommend 325 degrees for cooking uh yeah at 325, if you pull something at 170, how much of a rise am I gonna get on the rest? You know, not much. Uh poultry is is different from beef. With beef, you know, you have that solid chunk of muscle, and poultry is not like that. So it may be two or three degrees, but that's about it.
+
+[1:16:45] Oh, really? There's not a lot of we we don't allow for a lot any rise. Yeah. So on the reverse, now even with a full rest, you're saying, right? Yes.
+
+[1:16:55] Well, yes, yes. Yeah. And do you guys recommend the the rest like you know, like we always would. The problem with the rest, especially when it's like tented to not get uh is it steams the skin out, which is always kind of unfortunate, right? Mm-hmm.
+
+[1:17:10] I mean, like so you guys carve right. Yeah, how long? Yeah, no, we do we say fifteen to twenty minutes because if you as you know, you because I know you're you're a big foodie, um, when you start to carve a a turkey right away or a poultry, um, the the juices come right out. But once it sets for fifteen or twenty minutes, then the the juices will remain in in the cells there. What about the problem of of keeping the skin crispy with the rest?
+
+[1:17:38] Do you like do you have some sort of like special like magic trick to like rest it, have it not be cold but keep the skin crispy? Because you y y you get my problem here, right? Like i you keep it you put a aluminum foil over so that it it radiates very little heat and then you know it's sitting there and the skin is not you pull it out and it's like tack tack tack and sounds great. The skin's crispy and then when you get it it's not crispy anymore. Yeah I I I see what you're saying.
+
+[1:18:06] We do not have a cure for that I'm sorry. I uh you know I would say if you really like that skin to remove the foil um and that that would keep your skin intact you might lose but but you know by the time you carve the whole turkey a bit of time has passed so it won't be steamy hot anyway. Yeah my family like people just rip the skin off and eat it and then the meat gets carved in or like you just cook a whole sep separate bird for the skin. How about you pull it when it's done, rest it or pull it maybe a little before rest it for you know and then just like blast it in like in like hyper convection and like air fry mode just to re-crisp that skin on the way out. You think that's gonna help or no?
+
+[1:18:48] Like like five minutes, like ten minutes of like Yeah. You know what I mean? I I yeah. I I I would hesitate only because I would be afraid you're going to continue to cook your turkey if you place it back in your oven. Um you know uh whatever works for you Dave.
+
+[1:19:08] Also I noticed that one of the uh things that you guys uh tout on the website is the uh the skin cut leg self tuck sitch right so the legs are self tucked in a in a butterball turkey right you don't so Butterball doesn't believe in the free leg? I'm a free leg man. You guys uh you you know you guys uh like it like the old school tuck or is that for visual or do you guys actually think that it cooks better with the legs drawn in around the bird like that um I don't know if it cooks better it certainly looks nicer. Yeah um when when you tuck the leg I mean I pull my meat obviously before you guys recommend that I pull the meat and if I have it tucked it's get it has that dreaded it has that dreaded like pink stuff down by the uh whatever joint this is that I'm pointing at like shoulder yeah you know or whatever the thigh whatever like the hip hips yeah and uh nobody like nobody likes that everyone hates that you know right right so like well you know that's that's why we tell you to bring it up to temperature that's why we say 180 degrees on the thigh. I just can't I just can't I'm it's not in me.
+
+[1:20:22] I can't do it. You know what I mean? It's it's like it's just like my my body like revolts against it. Uh we we've actually we've actually found that the the texture of the meat when you bring it up to one eighty is is is it's more palatable. Let me ask you this though.
+
+[1:20:40] What are you like what are the ingredients in the in the brine? Are there phosphates in the salt that h help it keep moisture at those temperatures so that like as opposed to a normal just a straight salt brine that like someone at home might do? Like is it a more effective brine that's in the butter ball that allows it to stay uh you know moist at those temperatures as opposed to you know like a regular salting? Um, well, of course, the ingredients are proprietary, so I'm my lips are sealed. But um I can't really go there.
+
+[1:21:13] But um the the reason that we do the basting solution is because these turkeys are very cold. You know, we freeze them, but either they're frozen or the fresh turkeys, which are kept at twenty-three, twenty-six degrees. So because of that, because of that ice, um, that helps them to stay moist as they're I guess they are thawing. So um, you know, I I would say, you know, I I really don't know. I I can't really say I know that.
+
+[1:21:42] Yeah. Uh so what everyone's gonna want to know what are the biggest horror stories, right? John, is there is everyone wants another one? Just give us some horror stories. Right?
+
+[1:21:51] So, like, you know, everyone's gonna make the mistakes they're gonna make, but give us the worst. Okay, um the worst. Or whatever. So give us some interesting horror horror shows. Okay.
+
+[1:22:03] Um there are many heartwarming and funny stories. Um my my current favorite one is where um a young man was having his his new girlfriend's parents over for dinner, and he was he he hadn't met the parents yet. So he was preparing the turkey and he placed the turkey in the oven and he pushed oven clean instead of oven bake. Yeah. And the oven, of course, locked shut.
+
+[1:22:31] Yeah. And he would not get the oven open. So he had smoke coming out of his oven. And he called Butterball. 1 800 Butterball.
+
+[1:22:43] And of course, the first thing we told him was hang up the phone, call 911. Man. So like did how long do you guys stay on the phone with him in this case? Like, like did you like like I'm like did you tell him how to how to get his oven back open? Did you like did did it did it end up okay, or did they go out to to eat somewhere else?
+
+[1:23:04] Did you get any follow-up from these folks? Well, actually, um the my my office mate, she sits right next to me, received that call, and she did say if it's an electric oven, unplug it. And he did, so he was able to open the oven. And was the turkey salvageable or unsalvageable? I don't think it was salvageable, no.
+
+[1:23:27] Unfortunately. The thing is how to do it. Yeah, we don't have I've gotten that call. People are looking for an anecdote for I had someone in the again in the south, and he had tre he was cooking turkeys in these in the pits and in a you know pit in the ground. Yeah.
+
+[1:23:43] And he said he does it every year. And this year, one of them burned, and it burned to a crisp. So he was looking for an anecdote. He said, My wife is going to kill me. Yeah.
+
+[1:23:55] Yeah. I'm sorry, you can't unburn something. No, no anecdote for a burned turkey. You uh you, you know, you'd be you'd be up for some sort of Nobel Prize if you could unburn food there. There that would be a miracle.
+
+[1:24:08] Um that would okay, okay, Dave. There's there's your assignment. Yeah. Yeah, I don't I don't I I wouldn't, I would definitely be a lot richer if I could figure out how to uh how to do that. Uh now, what about people doing things like you you're anti jacuzzi thawing, although seems to me it would work, right?
+
+[1:24:26] Because your thawing methods they take a long time. The thawing methods take a long time. Yes. Yeah. Yes.
+
+[1:24:33] It's definitely a lot of work. Um, especially if it's a large turkey. If it's it we allow thirty minutes per pound changing the water every thirty minutes, uh placing it. You could, you know, people you could put it in the bathtub to do that, uh, in a in a tub and not not really the hot tub, um, in a bucket, but um a a twenty pound turkey, if you think about it, would take ten hours. That's a long time.
+
+[1:24:59] That's a long time. Thirty minutes. Yeah. It is a long time. Every time I've ever and it's food safe.
+
+[1:25:04] Yeah, because like you recommend how many days to thaw in the fridge? It's like four, right? Well, we recommend four four pounds per day. So again, that twenty pound turkey would take five full days to thaw in the refrigerator. I want everyone to that to sink in because nobody actually thinks about that.
+
+[1:25:22] You are saying that to non-forceaw something in a fridge is a five day situation for a twenty pound turkey. Five days. In other words, it is already too late. It's too late. Do you know?
+
+[1:25:34] Uh uh you know, you probably can't recommend this, but uh I throw a circulator, I throw I throw it in a circulator and circulate it in its brine at forty to thaw it. Forty Fahrenheit. Okay. Yeah. Okay, that that's that's uh circulators are great.
+
+[1:25:50] That's a great use for it. Yeah. Just keep it going. It helps to have one of the old school circulators that is uh sterilizable because it's made of like stainless. But yeah.
+
+[1:26:00] Yeah, you know, we do recommend that you leave the turkey in its original wrap when you uh when you saw it like that. Taking it out of the wrapping, that's that opens up a whole lot of problems. So um yeah, I I would definitely recommend leaving it in its original wrapper. Uh give me some more, give me some more weird and like you know, huge, huge mistakes, unr unrectifiable errors. Okay.
+
+[1:26:24] Well, you know, uh again, a lot of trends going around. We often get calls about questioning can they thaw their turkey in the dishwasher? Yeah. Uh in the clothes dryer. I actually did receive that call and the as I said no, no, that's that's not a method that we recommend.
+
+[1:26:43] She then turned away from the phone and said, to whoever, she said, take it out. Like, now the dryer seems like a horrible idea. Now the washer, you could tenderize it, right? You throw the brine in the in the in a vertical washer and boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. It's very similar to the machines that take the feathers off, right?
+
+[1:27:04] You know, tumble brine that thing. That you know, that seems like that's a win. No? You know? And then, you know, just run run it through a cycle and it's good.
+
+[1:27:14] Do you remember back in the day when everyone was trying to cook corn in their di in their dishwashers? That was a thing. Yeah, that was a thing. Everyone's like, go and cook corn in the dishwasher. Because they want to cook a lot of corn, and so they would say that, but the dish it just doesn't work.
+
+[1:27:27] Your dishwasher is not usually not usually hot enough unless you have a sanitized second or accurate enough. I did once go to a place where they were using steam washers, like like airport steam washers to cook corn, and it was good, but those were industrial hardcore units. I I don't know how food safe that would be. I just have to say. Well, you know.
+
+[1:27:44] Yeah, yeah. But it's it's interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I know you can't recommend things that are they're you know, completely completely unsafe. Uh all right.
+
+[1:28:00] We only have uh like 42 seconds left. Uh, and I want to thank you so much because I know this is the busiest season of the year uh for you to come on and talk turkey from uh Butterball. Any sort of words of encouragement you can give people uh on the way out other than to text you. I hear 24 hours a day for the next couple of days. You guys are are on text, not live on phone, but on text 24-7, right?
+
+[1:28:24] That is correct, Dave. Yes, yes, we're available via text. But we we're super busy, so it may take a little bit of time to get back to you. But um, we also have email, we're on the social networks, we're on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, uh, so many ways, butterball.com. We have a lot of instructional videos on Butterball.com, which may answer your questions, and of course, our website, butterball.com with uh lots of lots of good advice and recipes, and a shout out to my son Will.
+
+[1:28:55] Uh, definitely a shout out to your son Will. We uh we appreciate having him as a uh patron. And thank you so much, Barbara, for coming on. Happy Thanksgiving, and I hope your turkey is uh I'm sure your turkey's gonna be great. I don't even have to ask you you run the turkey.
+
+[1:29:09] Obviously, your turkey's gonna be great. I hope my turkey's great. How about that? Happy Thanksgiving. Yes.
+
+[1:29:14] Thank you, Dave. Happy Thanksgiving to you and all your listeners. All right. Cooking issues. Dark meat, the word is on the street that you're probably getting all thrown out.
+
+[1:29:46] I'm sure you had to be before, cause it's better than I am, no doubt. I don't believe that any poultry tastes the way you do. You're also down. I'd start a fighting frozen foods for my people. There are many ways that I would like to serve you up, cause I won't eat time.
+
+[1:30:23] I said graving. You make my turkey taste so savory.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you alive from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City. Joined as usual with John here in the booth across me. How you doing? Doing great, thanks.
+
+[0:21] Yeah, great, awesome. Good, yeah. Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels. What's up? Hey, how are you guys?
+
+[0:25] Happy post-Thanksgiving holiday? Yeah, yeah. We gotta get the blow by blow. We got Nastasia the Hammer Lopez in Los Angeles as well as Jackie Molecules, also Los Angeles. How are you guys doing?
+
+[0:37] Good. Good. Yeah, yeah. Uh, and uh holding it down up in Vancouver Island, Quinn, what's up? Hey, I'm good.
+
+[0:45] Yeah, good, good. So, uh, who wants to go first on their uh on their post-Thanksgiving uh blow by blow? Uh Nastasia, how how about you? Was it uh did it sound hollow when tapped the turkey when it came out of the oven? How was it?
+
+[0:58] No, it wasn't so bad, actually. It was pretty cooked. It was like fine. It's good. All right, now what do you go for first on a turkey when it comes out?
+
+[1:08] First of all, in your family, how far in advance does the turkey come out of the oven before you eat it? I went for the legs. You went for the legs? All right. Were they cooked all the way through or not?
+
+[1:23] I guess that's gonna be the moistest call. That's gonna be the moistest call. Nastasia's not a dumb lady. That's gonna be the moistest call. Uh how how but like is it out like an hour before it before you eat it or like 20 seconds, 30 minutes?
+
+[1:38] What what like what are you looking at? No, like 30 minutes. 30 minutes. That's a good number, actually. That's a decent number.
+
+[1:44] I was a little bit nervous because my my brother-in-law, and I'm not nervous because my brother-in-law cooked a turkey. That's fine. He's he's great to cook a turkey. He's good to cook a turkey. But this year he decided he's gonna cook it at home and then bring the turkey to my mom's house.
+
+[2:00] And I've never this is the first year since the pandemic that we've eaten together inside as a fan, you know, in their house, which is amazing. But I've never had a transported turkey. And you know what? It was it was good. Uh I was very nervous.
+
+[2:13] I didn't say so, but I was extremely nervous about a transported turkey. It comes, you ever seen a heart fly across the country? A human heart? No, not personally. In movies.
+
+[2:27] My mom used to do it. Yeah, my mom occasionally she'd be on the they they'd hire like private jets and then helicopters and or ambulus depending because every minute outside the donor's body is a minute closer to the heart not being good anymore. But they used to transport it, swear to god, igloo cooler. Igloo cooler, igloo brand cooler. And so, you know, they'd be on this jet with an igloo cooler and a human heart in it.
+
+[2:53] And so this was like a large version of that with turkey. It's like I I looked at it, I was like, Oregon, like a big organ. It had to be a big organ or like a full-body transplant, which I guess they haven't figured out yet. Someday, yeah. Someday.
+
+[3:05] Uh oh. Wouldn't it be a good idea if Iglu actually like uses that as marketing? They should. I don't know why they I don't know why they don't. You know what I mean?
+
+[3:15] It's like you know, when you have to. I bet you now they use Yeti though. You know what I mean? I bet you Yeti like went into that market and is like crap on you, Igloo. That's what happens when you stay behind, you don't catch up to the new technology.
+
+[3:26] Yeti's gonna take you. By the way, I went to Yeti's a couple like a month or two ago. Did I mention this? I went to so I think Yeti is from Austin, maybe. Because they have a flagship store in Austin that is bananas.
+
+[3:37] Do you guys are you guys Yeti folks? Wiley Dufrain is Mr. Yeti. He'll anything that Yeti comes out with, he'll buy a million of and then just kind of pepper the house with Yeti with Yeti things. You guys Yeti people?
+
+[3:48] I don't have any Yeti anything. No Yeti. No? They make good stuff. Yeah, they could personalize it.
+
+[3:54] It's all fantastically expensive, but I bought it. I'm like not like I mean, I own a lot of crazy things, but I'm not Mr. Tschotchke, but I did buy one of their uh insulated cocktail shakers. Because here's my theory. I want to test to see whether there's a dilution difference in the double vacuum insulated cocktail shaker versus a regular set of tins.
+
+[4:17] But the real reason is as I've said many times on the air, in my family, you know, especially with you know Wiley and Miley and that whole crew, we do the donkey ball. So donkey ball is when you get like you just pour cocktail on top of your old rocks in the glass. You're up, you shake the glass, the ice makes a noise. You say donkey ball, they pour more cocktail in. But we're even lazier, so there's usually stuff left in the tin.
+
+[4:39] Because we stir in the tins, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? So there's stuff left in the tin. So we're I'm hoping that the the Yeti cocktail shaker keeps this stuff in finer feather in the tin than a regular set of tins. So we're gonna test it.
+
+[4:52] Plus they personalize it. It says BDX, which is strong. Very yeah, BDX. Uh anyway, so the flagship Yeti store has uh a bar and a performance stage. What's well it's Austin, so all these freaking you know, bands go and play there.
+
+[5:09] But like, yeah, imagine a performance stage at a bar at a Yeti store and a bass boat, but that's useless. What are you gonna do with the bass boat? It's on dry land, a bass boat, useless on dry land. True. I mean, dummies.
+
+[5:21] Yeah. Uh anyway. Okay. Um, by the way, we had a question. Oh my god, take.
+
+[5:28] Oh no, you know what? No, we didn't finish Thanksgiving yet. So what what what else? What else you got? What else you guys got?
+
+[5:29] Quinn, I know you did some crazy stuff. What happened? Uh I mean, we didn't do Thanksgiving. Yes, but uh, you did some crazy persimmon pie, and it happened to be at the time that Thanksgiving was happening. So, Quinn spoil it.
+
+[5:45] I did a persimmon. Yeah, go ahead. So gelato tomato. Yeah. So Quinn, Quinn reads the acid basis of something and doesn't look at the little DW afterwards.
+
+[5:56] And what does DW stand for, my man? Try weight. Yeah, yeah. So you put in. Wait, wait, so what was your theory?
+
+[6:08] Was the theory that you wanted the gelato to have the exact same sugar and acid base as the native persimmon did? And not native meaning, not the same sugar, but similar. Okay. And similar acid base. Yeah.
+
+[6:23] Yeah, it's gonna have to be higher sugar, obviously. But um, so but he puts in five times as much succinic acid as belongs in the thing because he's more like four. More like four. Uh um, yeah, yeah, four were five. Yeah.
+
+[6:39] Anyway, so like how how good how plastic nasty was the succinic acid? Was it pretty hardcore? I actually I haven't split it yet. Uh it's in uh it's in a creamy container as we speak. Uh, freezing down.
+
+[6:54] Did you taste the raw base though? You're not a raw base taster? I did, did base getting ready to roll. I'm not a raw base. I'm not a real base taster.
+
+[7:02] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Why is there eggs in it and stuff? No, I just I don't believe that that will be an accurate indicator of what the product will taste like. So not for not for health reasons, just because you you don't care to you don't care to poison your mind. What about this?
+
+[7:19] What about this though? I'm gonna give you this little little nugget. While it's true in cocktails that it is impossible to taste balance of a drink until it has been diluted and chilled. If you know what balance tastes like when it's under diluted and warm, then you judge what it will taste like when it is colder and more diluted. And I would think ice cream bases could be similar.
+
+[7:43] You could, but it just I I trust my for most things, for my sugars and whatnot. I trust the numbers. And my dad tasted it. He said it tasted fine. Okay.
+
+[7:55] So we'll see. Yeah, we'll see whether that metallic blood taste is uh more or less present when you chill that thing down and all the other flavors drop. My theory, but I'm my theory is that the sugar's gonna drop like a rock, as as we know when you chill it, right? That your sensation of sugar is gonna drop like a rock, and that that metal and blood is just gonna stay there. Just gonna ride it out.
+
+[8:18] Well, I've got more persimmon. Yeah. So I can always cut it in half. Let me ask you a question. Do you do you have a tree or something?
+
+[8:25] Like, why do you have so much persimmon? No, this is this is the plenty and sad part. My the nurse I go to every week for my blood work as a tree. Yeah, and it's basically a foo you. Uh yeah.
+
+[8:42] We we we that's our guess. I'm gonna get some people mad at me, but like I just don't I've never had the like the the wild American uh is that true? I've never had a lot of them. I've never had like a a a bunch that I could try that someone said these are the ones, right? But I've never had a persimmon where I'm like, oh my god, I can't wait for my next persimmon.
+
+[9:01] Yeah, you know, agreed. Yeah, it exists, it's a thing, you know what I mean. Um the person I get them from doesn't like them. So we've got like 20 pounds. I did a kombucha, we did a hot thu.
+
+[9:18] My dad did a hot though. And in any of them, were you like, thank god that persimmon's there? Or is it just a substrate? Yeah, no, we we made a really nice like Chinese teeth soil plum sauce. Okay.
+
+[9:34] Persimmon. Right, but could it have had anything else other than persimmon as well? I mean, in other words, like I I'm fine if it's just a good neutral base and you happen to have 20 pounds of it sitting around. I mean, that's a valid reason to do things, right? But in other words, it's not a valid reason for someone to be like, now I gotta go find persimmons again.
+
+[9:53] You're like, I'm gonna make that plum sauce with whatever neutral crap I have lying around. You know what I mean? Isn't it like the tilapio fruit? Yeah, yeah, it's the tilapia fruit, pretty much. So what is it is a unique sort of yeah, yeah.
+
+[10:08] But I don't really like that unique dish. Yeah. You picked this my second least favorite fruit. Papa American, and I'm assuming they're for actually Canadians might, you might get good papayas because you have different, you know, you can't grow anything like that in Canada, so they don't have any laws about you bringing the good stuff in, but like the papayas we get here in the US just blow. They're just terrible, they're just trash.
+
+[10:30] You know what I mean? Like they're just not good. Yeah, and I can say that because I grew up hating them because they were terrible, and then I went to other countries where they're great, and I'm like, oh, I get it now. You know what I mean? It's like our stuff is I mean, I'm sure if you're in Hawaii, yeah, or in South South Florida, and you get one that hasn't been treated, or is it I'm sure you can get a good papaya here.
+
+[10:49] I'm not saying that we don't have the physical ability to grow them. You know, although most of us don't. Anyway. Yeah. Um, we got a caller?
+
+[10:58] Oh, caller. You're on the air. Nice. This is Will Robinson from Chicago. Hey, what's up, Will?
+
+[11:05] What's up? Everything good? Everything's great, man. Everything's great, but but real talk, straight up. You have never tasted persimmon right off the tree, like when it's like perfect?
+
+[11:16] No. And never an American. Life-changing experience. Okay, hold on. Well, yeah, it's a life-changing experience.
+
+[11:21] Like reoccurring dream level of haunting. So, like, let me ask you this. So, like, are you talking about a persimmon that you like the style that you have to leave on the tree until it blets out and like it's all like water baggy after it's gone through a freeze cycle? Or are you talking ones that can eat hard and fresh? Uh American style, I think you can eat hard and fresh and it can be good.
+
+[11:44] So I think it's the Japanese ones that are better when they sat in the tree and gone through a freeze cycle. Yeah, yeah. I mean, because I eat plenty of things off of trees that need to go through a freeze cycle. For instance, I eat calorie pears. I'm that idiot that goes around eating those tiny pears off the tree in New York City when I'm bored.
+
+[12:00] But uh, but they have to bled. They have to freeze and thaw. You know what I mean? All right, listen, I'm willing to I'm so like you're saying that but you agree that the ones that I buy at the grocery store are terrible. Oh yeah, trash.
+
+[12:13] Yeah, all right, fine. I see I'm willing to believe it. That's that's a trash fruit. Yeah. Yeah, that's a trash fruit.
+
+[12:18] But like I have had reoccurring dreams about persimmon orchards. Like it's a transcendent experience. Yeah. So how long do you have? Could like Quinn's dad conceivably like drive over to this like person's like yard, rip one off and drive over, or does it have to be like pop eat?
+
+[12:37] I mean, I'm sure it can't be like I mean, I'm sure they're only minutes away, right? It's got to be good enough. Yeah, I think probably like it's like uh order of magnitude of like hours, probably. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And but they uh now wait, clear though, you're talking about American persimmons, not like because this this person has like a fouyu style, which is totally different.
+
+[12:57] I've heard American persimmons are good. I've also never tasted a pawpaw because uh John over here who's sitting across from me saw it at a farmer's market and did what? Not buy it. He saw it at a farmer's market, and what did he do? He didn't buy it.
+
+[13:10] That's true. Yeah, for example. Yeah. I have papa that I picked in my freezer right now, Dave. I can nail some.
+
+[13:17] I don't know. How is it? But how what's the difference between fresh and and it tastes like banana pudding? Yeah. My favorite temperate faux tropical fruit is uh is the uh may apple, which is you know, I think it's potocarpum.
+
+[13:32] Yeah, yeah. And it's completely poisonous when uh not ripe. Yeah, I was about to say, yeah. Yeah. But when it's ripe, if you take the seeds out, because the seeds are also poisonous, amazing.
+
+[13:42] So tropical. You know what I mean? Like in that kind of like, and this is a meaningless word. You want you're get ready for me to say something meaningless, guava like. Because what the hell does a guava taste like?
+
+[13:51] There's a billion guavas. It's true. They all taste different. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[13:55] So I'm giving you a meaning of. I was another one in Puerto Rico. In Qu in Puerto Rico, uh like guava like off the tree uh transcend it. Absolutely transcend it. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[14:06] I mean, uh there's a lot of things. I had to call in to David Carpew about about American guava, you know. Uh persimmon, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah it's it's really it could be it can be great all right and uh you know so were you uh were so for those of you that don't know uh Will's mom is the butterball expert we had on last week before uh the Thanksgiving oh yeah you're right back to back uh Robinson Collins here now I noticed that you had a turkey that you bought from a live butcher not a butterball I'm not gonna say anything about that only I just did so the question is were you with your mom and you brought a non-officially butterball turkey was there dueling turkeys like dueling banjo situation or what happened I mean she worked Thanksgiving man she's on the phones oh yeah yeah no I haven't I haven't spent Thanksgiving with my mother in like 16 years 17 years she she worked it she's there in her sweater in her cubicle the same butterball tricky talk line yeah wow yeah real thing yeah yeah it's like a service job you you you don't get to spend you know holiday with your family huh never thought about it effectively yeah it's it's yeah service industry but for like little old ladies kind of you know at least like you know with doctors and whatnot they usually trade off the holidays they're like listen I'll take uh I'll take Thanksgiving this year you take the new year's you know what I mean like they do it like that but like you know everyone's on everyone's on deck there with the with the free game with the butterball and he Oh yeah no it's all hands on deck yeah even pandemic and everything like she was in the basement you know like doing it remote I'm sure pandemic's the worst because that's when everyone's cooking turkeys for the first time because they're not with their family, so all the people who've never cooked a turkey before are like, yeah, what do I do? What do I do? Oh, yeah.
+
+[15:51] No, that was yeah, a house is burned down. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my god.
+
+[15:55] Imagine your house burning down during the floor. I did I did stopping Thanksgiving with some friends. So nice. Well, uh, I appreciate the call. Any questions?
+
+[16:07] You're just calling in to berate me about my lack of perception. No, just calling in to correct you about about the uh American persimmon being dope. Happy happy to be corrected and happy to taste it someday. Yeah, no, and I'll I'll mail you some Popeye, some in my freezer that I uh that I picked this year. Love it.
+
+[16:24] Love it. We'll uh eat it on air. Yeah. Yeah. And I will be rate John again for not personally.
+
+[16:29] The mouth sounds would be like more, yeah. The mouth sounds would be even more uh life threatening. Really? It's wise would be bad. Is it like I mean, yeah, it's it's a weird, it's a weird texture.
+
+[16:40] It literally it it has the texture of um, or at least the variety that I get uh from the trees that I know about uh has the texture of um like uh banana pie, banana pudding, kind of it's very strange. Even after it's not a thawed, even after it's frozen and thawed? Oh yeah. I mean, it's probably worse than I don't know. I usually I do a um uh I actually do a gustino with it when it's after frozen and thawed, so which is also good.
+
+[17:08] Yeah, and I can also mail you. So the uh the so the fruit with weird texture that Nastasia Nastasi, do you you like the canistel or you like the the uh black sapote, the ice cream fruit better? They have weird textures. Uh the ice cream line. Yeah, the ice cream lunch.
+
+[17:23] Yeah, those are good, but they have like a weird, like just like hyper dense, such a dense texture. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah, no, I yeah, I I think Mastodon's, you know, if it's a megaphonal distribution fruit. I think Mastodons just didn't really care. And they were, you know, just going to town on them.
+
+[17:41] Yeah, but when you're they didn't have the same uh the same flavor taste as like you know, giant brown flops and their avocados. Yeah, yeah. Well when your teeth are the size of uh saucers and uh you know can grind things down, and I guess it doesn't really matter much. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[17:56] No, everything turns into banana pudding eventually. If you could eat one animal that is extinct, would it be a mastodon? No, no, it's gotta be it's gotta be a non-avian dinosaur. Hmm. But what if I limit it to ones that humans have eaten?
+
+[18:13] Oh uh if you're limited to ones that humans have eaten, I'd probably go with passenger pigeon. Ooh. What about dodo? You gotta hear dodo. But were they ever?
+
+[18:27] Yeah, were they ever for food? Because it was so easy to kill. They used to block out the sun. I don't know. And we murdered them all because they were easy to kill.
+
+[18:41] But passenger pigeon was apparently delicious. Yeah, well well, so bobble links, which are the you know, the rice bird, are not extinct, just illegal. So but I'm never gonna I'm never gonna get to taste one of those. Uh I guess if you're gonna go like Oh no, well that's you that you can go like you can go out French president style and uh your last meal can be Ordelon or something, you know. Yeah, but like why would I mean, but I would want to do it American style.
+
+[19:03] I would want the rice bird, but they don't grow rice there anymore. I mean, I don't know, it's a very complicated thing, and it's of course complicated by many factors, but I would think I would go for stellar sea cow because we everyone who ate stellar sea cow said it was incredibly delicious. However, they had been on a boat for three and a half months sailing around, you know, uh, you know, the tips of uh uh South America, and so I'm gonna or Africa, I guess, depending on which way they're going. And uh so my guess is is that almost anything would have tasted delicious at that point. But apparently, soups delicious, like just delicious.
+
+[19:40] That's a that's a great answer, especially in response to Jackie Molecules having just gotten a lot of sh about excuse me, sorry, uh, yeah, yeah. About eating whale. So yeah, but like it's an extinct it's an extinct species. So like I think what you know, we're assuming that like they're gonna like get some cells and grow it in a tank, and you're just gonna grow the it's gonna grow it. You know what I mean?
+
+[20:05] Well, if you're going extinctive species, and then it's the morals are completely out the window, uh I why not go with the v Denisivin or uh with uh Neanderthal or you know, I'm sure that we ate all those, you know, other Homo sapiens uh subspecies. I don't know. I don't know that we did, man. I don't know that we did. Uh here's why.
+
+[20:24] Because we we interbred with them. So like there's there is like because we interbred with them, we're hard to have eaten humans. There's a whole tradition of humans eating humans in several cultures. It's not a uh usually you usually just as a result of war and or a tribute after death, not like as a regular like Sunday dinner kind of a situation. You know what I mean?
+
+[20:43] I mean, sometimes you get a taste for something though, and then you're just like, I don't know, tonight I want I want human thigh, you know. Wow, I don't know. It's gone dark, dude. It's gone way dark. Super dark.
+
+[20:54] Yeah, well, we're talking about eating species. You know what's funny about this right now? I just clear up bookshelves, and I have my officially licensed uh Hannibal TV show book uh on my shelf. Starting down at me. This is a Mads Mickelson show, right?
+
+[21:15] Uh yeah. Yeah. Love Mads Mickelson. He is a is uh he can look incredibly creepy. I'm not saying he looks creepy, but he can look incredibly creepy.
+
+[21:24] And because of that show, I bought that knife, and I have to say I like it. The I think it's called Porsche 303. I don't know why it's called Porsche 303, because I don't believe it's 303 stainless. I'm not sure, and I don't believe it's made by the Car Corporation. But even Wiley came over, he's like, What's this goofball knife?
+
+[21:41] And he picked it up, he's like, you know what? I like this knife. That's the knife I reach for more than any other knife. Yeah. What?
+
+[21:49] Oh. John has some sort of reason. Anyway, all right. All right, man. Thanks for calling in.
+
+[21:55] Don't be a stranger. Yeah. Yep. No problem. Yeah.
+
+[21:58] And thanks for being nice to my mom. Well, no, it was a good pleasure to have her on. Yeah. Yeah. Good guys.
+
+[22:05] Have a good one. Uh speaking of guests we've had and guests coming up. Uh on December 12th, we have uh Sommelier Extraordinaire Andre Mack coming on. Now listen, I heard someone And country ham connoisseurs might even ravel your your knowledge. That's look people can have more knowledge.
+
+[22:23] I'm just saying. No, yeah. I've always wanted to go to Anson's. I'm the OG. I'm just the OG.
+
+[22:29] You are. You know what I mean? It's like someone can call and dispute me on that, but the problem is they'd be wrong. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, you you could disagree with it, you would also be wrong.
+
+[22:39] You know what I'm saying? So it's like someone could know vastly more than I do at this point. That's fair. Well, probably because I knew a lot back then. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[22:49] That's fair. I like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like uh anyway, I don't want to get it. So uh coming on on in December 12th, what is that, two weeks?
+
+[22:55] Two weeks, yeah. Two weeks. We'll see if we can two weeks, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Uh so but I I read on some stupid garbage trash hole that like now people don't like the word samoy anymore.
+
+[23:06] Why? What is that all about? Some people are hating on the word some way. Why? I don't know.
+
+[23:10] And some, is there a reason to hate on it? Not that I know of. People. Silly. Listen, every new crop of humans needs to hate on things.
+
+[23:19] That's just how we're built. You know? I try not to even remember what I was hating on back in the day. I'm sure it was a lot. I still hate on a lot.
+
+[23:28] You know what I mean? But like what what was I railing against from the generation like 10 years older than me, I wonder? Can any of you even remember what it was that you used to rail against? No. No.
+
+[23:40] No. It's because it wasn't recorded on the phone. The phonies. The phonies. Man.
+
+[23:46] Posers, losers. I told you, I can remember visiting St. Mark's in the mid-80s, and all of these people who were dressing like punk from like 77, and it's less than 10 years after that happened, and I was like, poser losers, freaking like old wannabe. Go go to your parents' generation, jerks. Can you imagine that?
+
+[24:07] Something that was current only like that was fresh only like a couple of years ago. That's what it is to be young. I kind of wish I could get that stupidity back. Yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[24:16] Because you get a lot done. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. You can get a lot done when you have that level of energy and anger and lack of self awareness.
+
+[24:24] You know what I'm saying? Yeah. A little arrogance too, maybe. Oh, a lot of arrogance. If you were me, especially.
+
+[24:29] I still got that. Uh so what else? What other Thanksgiving uh good occurrences do we have? What about you, John? How is Connecticut's Thanksgiving?
+
+[24:38] It was good. Uh did the turkey on the grill, spatchcocked. Came out very tasty. How many, how long did it take? Uh, like an hour and a half.
+
+[24:44] Yeah. Yeah, not too bad. It was an 18-pound bird. Yeah. Did they did you do uh direct indirect?
+
+[24:44] Not really. I was just a little lazy about it. I just I don't know, put it in uh in an aluminum like tray and then just put lid coals around on the bottom and then just left it until it was done, basically. Hell yeah, baby. Hell yeah.
+
+[25:04] Because uh who cares if the bones get a little burnt up. Yeah, doesn't matter. Yeah, no. You're gonna eat those things? Nah.
+
+[25:10] Exactly. How was the skin? Not great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not great, but yeah, that's because that's what I was asking how you deal with the skin problem on that.
+
+[25:18] Cuz that's a little bit of an issue on a grill, unless you have a way to flip it over and then have the skin not stick to whatever you that's why, like if you know, in the best of all universes, you would spatch it and then tie it through the bones down to a grate, and then you could spend the grate upside down, right? Yeah, crisp that sucker up and then flip it. And if you tie it right, it should be able to stay on even when it's actually it wouldn't matter because uh as soon as the skin starts to brown and set, it's not gonna stick to the grate anymore. Yeah, it's true. So, you know, as long as you had started with some inversion on it, you could, you know, just like the same way like those Argentinian things, you could get it to crisp up on both sides.
+
+[26:02] Next life. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? Well we only get one crap. Yeah, you know what I mean?
+
+[26:08] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thankfully. Yeah, yeah. Um Jack, anything? Anything?
+
+[26:14] It was good. Yeah. Um was in Boston with my girlfriend's family, and uh her dad did a very good. It was a huge bird, like twenty six pounds or something. It was like that's a large bird.
+
+[26:26] That's a large bird. The inside the inside's cold and the outside's already screaming for mercy. It's a big bird. They're hard to do. It was a very big bird.
+
+[26:34] Yeah. Yeah, it was. He did he did an admirable job. Oh, good, good. Uh d so how was the carving?
+
+[26:39] Carving is always kind of an atrocity at Thanksgiving, right? Especially like if people I'm not saying your girlfriend's dad can't carve a turkey. I'm just saying that a lot of people that's like their one time a year that they carve something and just mutilate the bird. Just mutilate it. How was the carving?
+
+[26:55] Yes. Yeah. It was it was it was good. What what was what was smart is he left the carcass out for people to pick at, which I loved. Remember that?
+
+[27:04] Old uh commercial. I think it was for Purdue's oven stuffer roaster chickens. Wait when they st when Purdue started making uh oven stuffer, i.e. big like young chickens, and they call 'em roasters. And the commercial was pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick.
+
+[27:20] You've seen that? And it's just the carcass getting totally shredded up. And like they they wanted you to buy a chicken and then just kind of leave it around so people could pick on it. Pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick. Remember this?
+
+[27:36] Yep. Yeah. Do you remember in the video I sent you of all the chefs there? Remember when the the when the turkey was finally ready, none of them wanted to carve it. We had like some of the best chefs at your house.
+
+[27:47] Zero of them left. Yeah, 'cause we're all we're all losers and weasels. Almost like, uh I think we have another caller. Caller, you're on the air. Hey, what's up, Dave?
+
+[27:56] It's Josh from Norfolk. Hey, what's up? How's it going? Doing good. Um hot dog not a sandwich, by the way.
+
+[28:03] Hot dog not a sandwich, not a sandwich. You know, we we agree on a lot of things. We can have that one. Okay, okay. Um so we're throwing a little repeal day party next week.
+
+[28:14] Um kind of celebrating early 2000s cocktails, but we're gonna science them up a little bit. So I'm looking at my apple teeny right now. Um my plan currently is to make kind of like uh a sour mix by jacking just some simple syrup with uh malic acid and like a little citric. And I figure I'll infuse the vodka with uh or maybe just apple peels for that kind of like cannon and a little color. I happen to know from your Instagram account, I happen to know from your Instagram account that you have 20 pounds of ash meats kernels sitting around.
+
+[28:50] I blew through them this weekend, but I have access to way more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are they still good where you are? Oh, they're great, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[28:58] Yeah. I juiced all mine instantly and they're in my freezer. They lose their texture relatively quickly, but they keep their acids. You can grab a bunch of a bunch more of those. Um, but yeah, I was just wondering if we have best practice to just really pack this thing with apple flavor and then uh I'm gonna dye it green.
+
+[29:18] You know what we used to do uh at uh at existing conditions for for whatever reason uh it really worked well with uh our uh Garrett's apple teeny, whatever, I forget what it was called. It's called Macintosh, even though that's not a great it's because of the computer he was making a joke. 2.0. Listen. This is very good cart.
+
+[29:40] The Mac just tastes like a Macintosh. This was not anyway, hickory syrup. We used hickory syrup, and it just popped the apple. I don't know why. But you know, with the bark, shag bar hickory.
+
+[29:51] You just boil you vacuum fuse and sh boil um shag bar kickory, then you um then you reduce it by half and sugar it's good. Syrup's good. I just made it again, just like two days ago. Uh so that popped the apple. Um if you clarify the uh the apple, then you I would see it's gonna get destroyed by boiling it though to concentrate it.
+
+[30:19] I mean, you if you want the most apple, and and this is for work or for or for people, regular, like non-paying people. Uh no, this is for paying people. Oh, yeah. Then you can't go too crazy. Because I was gonna say you could always just do just use a boat ton of clarified apple and then just uh, you know, freeze it down, don't make it, don't make it traditionally.
+
+[30:41] You know, you like pre-chill it. Um, but that's not really an option because it's very expensive. You know what I mean? Well, I mean, it's just for one party. I only need enough for four hours.
+
+[30:53] Yeah, so then you could just, you know, if you freeze clarified, uh, if you freeze clarified uh apple, then you can stir down with the clarified apple until that ice is gone, and then uh just make then add the you know, add some regular ice to it, do a second stir with uh to finish the dilution. The the problem with stirring with um with them both at the same time is you have to make sure that the apple juice totally melts out or your your sugar acid ratio is gonna be hosed. You know what I mean? But then you could put you know, quite a bit of um, you could put quite a bit of apple into it. Uh actual apple, you know what I mean?
+
+[31:36] Um, but the ash meads balances out pretty well. Uh, I don't have the numbers in my head, uh, but I just did a lot of uh numbers recently on acid sugar level, but you just do it by taste. You know what I mean? Sure, sweet. All right, I'll play around with that.
+
+[31:51] Yeah, but try the hickory syrup. It's awesome. You have hickory's in your phone. Yeah. Uh I don't know.
+
+[32:00] I may need to go uh go foraging. Yeah, yeah. You know, you're not hurting the tree. Don't like denude the tree. It's just the external bark, it's flaking off.
+
+[32:08] You know what a shag bark hickory looks like, right? It's it it looks like it sounds shaggy bark, shag bark, hickory. You know what I mean? Yeah, we've got uh we've got an arboretum. I might go uh take a walk tomorrow and see what I can find.
+
+[32:21] Yeah, we won't we won't talk about going into an arboretum and taking things off of the trees. We won't talk about it. I'm not saying I'm mad at you for doing it, I'm just saying we're not gonna talk about it. All right. It's casual, it's a cool one.
+
+[32:31] All right. Okay. All right, thanks. I bet. By the way, uh, John, let's say people want to be able to call in.
+
+[32:38] What would they do? They would call 917-410-1507. And you can only do that if you are a Patreon member. So you should go to Patreon.com slash cooking issues and sign up at one of our awesome three levels. You get a lot of perks at every level, including uh discounts to Kitchen Arts and Letters, access to our Discord, live video feed, uh prioritized questions, and just a whole bunch of other great things.
+
+[32:59] So operators are standing by. Yeah, yeah. There we go. Yeah, and you know, operator is uh your man Joe Hayes. Exactly.
+
+[33:05] Yeah. Uh also I will say if you happen to enjoy this uh podcast, uh go and rate us, uh preferably Millie on the uh platform of your choice. It helps us out. Yeah, it really does. And follow at cooking issues on Instagram too.
+
+[33:19] That helps too. Yeah, and Booker and Dax Lab, whatnot, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. And one more plug that we should do since it's giving Tuesday. Giving Tuesday.
+
+[33:26] Yeah. Go for it. No, you do it. You're the board member. Yeah, but you know, but you know more even than you're all right.
+
+[33:32] Um, so super excitingly, Mofad uh found another temporary space in Brooklyn. They will be reopening up flavor, um, which is super exciting. There's gonna be some new uh smell and tasting machines that Dave's working on, just other it's it's just gonna be fantastic. And since today's Giving Tuesday, MoFat is asking that uh you chip in if you can. So go to MoFad.org.
+
+[33:53] Uh they'll prompt you with a donation link right there and give what you can. It would be really helpful. And as we all know, MoFad is a really great organization, and we gotta do what we can to keep it going. So we're gonna measure your brain waves. Wait, what?
+
+[34:05] They're gonna measure they have a brainwave measuring thing. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah, yeah. Oh taste pumps. I'm building taste pumps.
+
+[34:12] Nice, yeah. Anyway, we have another caller, caller on the air. Hey Dave, this is Patrick from Brooklyn. How are you? Doing all right.
+
+[34:22] Hey, I got a leftovers question, even though the leftovers are exhausted at this point. When you have really crisp turkey skin, but you don't eat all of it, and it sogs. Okay, you've made a mistake. And you've already made a mistake. You haven't eaten all of it.
+
+[34:37] Yes. That that that that is true. All right. But if one has made that mistake, what is your suggestion? Especially take it from the meat and do something separate, or uh that's always my struggle.
+
+[34:50] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always remove them in as big like you know, if you have leftover skin of any type, I always remove it in as big a chunks as possible. And then you gotta be careful with turkey skin because uh uh turkey skin that's been uh cooked on the bird has already rendered out uh significant, so it's a lot thinner, so you have to keep a little bit of an eagle eye on it. But like, but like you know, throwing it into like um uh like a convection oven or an air fryer at like you know, 350, 375 as flat out as is possible to re-crisp it up, and then I would just salt it and eat it like straight. I don't know, and I was like, I'm I'm um believer in consuming poultry skin as close to the you know, it's just crispy wonderfulness as possible.
+
+[35:36] Not that there's not other great preparations of it, like you know, steamed birds and whatnot, like especially in you know, uh Chinese cultures and whatnot. But yeah, that's what I would do. And I do the same thing, like whenever I whenever I have to take the skins off of uh chickens for whatever reason, the all the skins go on sheet pans on parchment in the oven at like 350. Don't go too high because you want it if keep an eagle eye on it if it's already cooked because it's gonna burn fast. It's gonna get dark really fast, especially if you've rubbed it with things like that.
+
+[36:08] Yeah, and that accurate, accurate edge to to burnt turkey that's not to me is not pleasant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you gotta really keep an eye. Then you might want to lower it chicken. You might want to lower it because it's already been brown.
+
+[36:18] So you might want to throw it in at like 325, 300. You know what I mean? 325 is better. And then uh, you know, just convection real high to like just get rid of any moisture it's picked up, and then yeah, eat it. And don't let anyone else have it.
+
+[36:34] All these turkey frying recipes come out are you know, people talking about frying turkeys without any breading, you know, anything like that. Are people frying chickens the rest of the year? Is this like something that one should be doing? You know, on a smaller, less dangerous scale. Dipping, dipping the bird without any crust in, or is that I always just uh I I'm always wondering why that isn't a popular thing, but the the turkey is.
+
+[36:58] And are we missing something? I've done the reverse. I've done chicken fried turkey. It's real good. The issue is you have to cut the piece.
+
+[37:07] You either have to completely low temp the pieces beforehand so that they're cooked through, uh, or you have to uh cut the pieces into smaller units before you chicken fry them. But but chick like chicken chicken breaded fried turkey is great. So for a couple of years, I was doing once I started uh once I started instead of cooking one giant bird, cooking two smaller birds, I would always roast one and chicken fry the other. But have I turkey fried chicken? I have only done it as a have I done it with chicken.
+
+[37:43] I've done it with quays all the time. Like uh, you know, like to I have no idea if it's good or not, but it just feels like a missing, easier food link that's less likely to burn down your house. Yeah, perhaps. I'm sure it's fine. Here's the thing with uh here's the thing with with uh put it put it here, right?
+
+[37:59] So like when you're frying a turkey, usually you're using a bunch of fresh oil, which is not great because you're just doing the turkey, right? You've bought oil and you bought the turkey and you have your turkey fryer. But the turkey takes long enough to cook that by the time it's done cooking, the oil's kind of broken in, and you know, you put enough water and other garbage in it that you're like ripping the oil apart as you're doing it, and you probably temperature abused it. So the oil's gonna be broken in by the time that the thing happens, but it's only ever had the turkey in it. I'm guessing that if you're doing a chicken, you're gonna do other stuff with that oil.
+
+[38:29] And oil, so like I I've done m a lot, lot, lot, lot, lot of deep frying steaks. Like a lot. Deep frying. You know what the you know what the I'll give you a power move, dude. Deep fry rack of lamb.
+
+[38:41] Oh my god. Deep fried rack of lamb, and then uh fantastic. You know what I'm saying? It's like, like, really, it's like you, oh, I wish the rack of lamb was like crusty all the way around. Yeah.
+
+[38:52] You want it? Deep fry it. You know what? But the problem is that uh the a little bit of oil adheres to the outside of the uh stuff, and it usually tastes like fry oil and not like the natural basting juices or like you've roasted it. And uh it has a very particular aroma that I think can be off putting.
+
+[39:14] So what I typically do is uh I uh I whenever I fry something like that, I'll baste it with jus on the way out. The jus washes off the oil off the outside. Uh or you know, sometimes when I was doing a lot of steaks, I would keep like a bucket of uh beef broth and I would just take the meat through the beef broth on the way out, and it just takes away that fry smell. So that's the only kind of negative I would say. Um that's the only negative I would say, but otherwise I think di di di dip it dip it in, dip it in in chicken broth on the way out, then if I try it.
+
+[39:44] Or just laid a little bit over the top, run some tests. I've never done it on a chicken, but like I say, this is the way to do quail, right? Because they're so small and it's hard to get all sides of a quail without overdoing it. You know what I mean? So you know, you fry them.
+
+[39:59] Breaded fried crail is also good, especially if they're boneless. Boneless breaded fried quail, that's money in the bank right there. You know what I mean? All right. I got some experimenting to do.
+
+[40:09] But I will say this, I'll say this. It's worth the extra money to pay someone else to bone that quail for you. You know what I mean? It's like, don't. Especially because like because you're like, unless you are cooking for yourself and you're like, I'm gonna do like two quail, and then you're like, it's worth it.
+
+[40:23] But it's like if you're like, oh, I got 10 people coming over, let's bone some quail. Nope. Nope. That's here's another one. Don't do.
+
+[40:30] Uh I got like 10, 15 people over. We're gonna have Dungeness Crab, and I'm gonna pre-crack it. Nope. Nope. Hire someone to do that for you.
+
+[40:37] Hire someone. Anyway. All right. Good luck with it. Uh all right.
+
+[40:43] Oh wow, what was that from? I don't I remember that. What is that from? Is that like Seinfeld or something? No.
+
+[40:49] No, what is that? Din and tool time? Maybe. Maybe, uh, wow. All right.
+
+[40:55] Brady Vickers wants to know. Uh would love to hear what my pie plans are, or any of our pie plans for the holidays, especially in light of the acid adjusted key lime pie idea and the Monroe Boston Strauss intel you've gathered. Well, I just did a bunch of pies for Thanksgiving. Uh, and uh I did this time pomegranate key lime pie. And I have another question, I think, on that somewhere.
+
+[41:15] Uh I'll I'll read it again if I uh if I get to it. But um here's the thing I I learned about key lime pies. Joe, you're a key lime pie fan, right? I sure am. Yeah.
+
+[41:27] So um, you know how like everyone's like, oh, like, like uh when you use regular limes, it's not as good, right? That's what everyone says. That's what everyone says. I've never tried it. Well, you never tried using regular limes?
+
+[41:38] Never tried regular limes. But actually, you know what? I can't I can't lie. I've never actually made key line pie. No?
+
+[41:42] No. Just buy it. We would have dude, they're like it's like you throw a stone in South Florida, you hit a pie stand. Yeah. Yeah everywhere.
+
+[41:50] All right, so like all in the shape of oranges, too. The pie stands are great. Really? Yes. I like that.
+
+[41:56] Yeah. It's like uh not leaving Las Vegas, learning from Las Vegas. The uh, what's his name? Uh architect. He wrote a book called Learning from Las Vegas, and everything is either a duck or a decorated shack.
+
+[42:06] So these are ducks because the building is shaped like an orange. What the hell is it? Venturi. Oh. Robert Venturi.
+
+[42:12] Anyway, so um, here's the issue. So most of us that have had key lime pies not in Florida, not from key limes, I would say if they have a fault, it's that they're too sweet, right? Overly sweet. And I did some research in advance of this, and uh, I think I know the problem. The problem is that key limes, which are a different uh species of lime of uh fruit as Persian limes, which is the standard lime that we use in cocktails, right?
+
+[42:41] Key limes actually have much higher acidity. So uh so a percent higher. So it's like whereas like a regular lime is like rocking like about six percent, right? A key lime is rocking like seven percent or thereabouts. So if you sub it one to one, it's about 15% less acid, which means it's gonna be there for it's gonna taste the ratio is gonna be off by 15%.
+
+[43:06] So when you're acid adjusting for key lime pie, you don't want to acid adjust up to six like you would for cocktails, because all almost all the cocktails are based on uh Persian lime units. All of the modern cocktails that you know that I deal with are based on Persian lime slash lemon units, not on key lime units. The conversely, if you use key limes, you might need to use a little bit less in or in or in in a cocktail recipe. So you want to adjust it up to about 7%. Another problem, uh, I did pomegranate this time, and it was great, except the color was bad.
+
+[43:38] I did I did pomegranate uh for Thanksgiving, key lime pie. Um the problem is uh that it has a significant amount of sugar, right? So pomegranate juice is like has like 16, almost 16 grams of sugar per 100 milliliters in it, right? So um that's a lot. So I had to adjust and I I did uh I looked at Joe's stone crab recipe online and I analyzed it.
+
+[44:05] And a standard uh the one that they publish, I'm sure they don't publish their real recipe, but their real recipe contains uh 189 grams of sugar and about 11.4 grams of acid for a ratio of of uh 16.6, right? Sugar to acid. And so that's what I tried to hit when I adjusted it. So really I just plugged in the numbers that were already in pomegranate juice and uh the condensed milk, and then I just uh added the amount of acid to get the acid sugar ratio up to 16.45. So I'll give you the numbers.
+
+[44:37] Uh one can of uh sweetened condensed milk, which uh is uh I think 396 grams, uh 167 grams of palm wonderful, three egg yolks at 54 grams, 11 grams of acid. I did a mixture of malloc, uh citric malloc and succinic uh, and that gives me you a ratio of 16.5. And it tasted great. It's a little punchier because it's got a little more sugar and acid than the original Joe's did, but the there's an as much acid to balance it out. So that's what I would do.
+
+[45:11] I also did my now patented bullseye, my bullseye uh cheesecake uh pumpkin pie mix. So I 3D printed a bunch of uh a bunch of target rings, right? Five rings, and then uh I took one of those expandable, you know those rings that expand? Those cake rings that expand. Spring form?
+
+[45:32] No, they're not a spring formed. They they're kind of like, imagine if you didn't want to have to have a bunch of different springform pans, and it's just a ring that you can make any size. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[45:43] Yeah. And you have to put it on a flat sheet. Yeah. So I did one of those. And then the ring inside of it, graham cracker crust.
+
+[45:44] And I did King Arthur's graham cracker crust. And uh they used confectioner sugar instead of uh granulated sugar. I don't know why they did, but my theory that it's it's good. One reason I think it's gonna be a good idea, and it was, it was delicious, is that I think the confectioner's sugar is gonna bind less than the other stuff because it's got that extra cornstarch in it. And so I'm thinking that's gonna make a softer crust.
+
+[46:10] I also browned the butter because I wasn't gonna do a par bake. And so, like when you par break a uh a graham cracker crust, it gets a little bit of those toasty notes in it, but I didn't want to par bake the the crust because I wanted to do a real loose pack on it so it wouldn't get hard. So I didn't want to I didn't want to have to worry about it slumping because it was such a loose pack, and so I browned the butter. It also reduced the amount of water, which also decreased the bind because there's less, there's a little, it was significant, right? So like um I wrote it down somewhere, but like you know, 80 something grams of uh butter went to like 70 something grams of butter when you added it.
+
+[46:46] I think it's on your Instagram, yeah. It's on the Instagram. So uh, and then uh yeah, the and then I I did it in the ANOVA precision of it. I used Dory Greenspan's uh um what's it called? Cheesecake recipe, but I added lemon because it's New York.
+
+[46:59] You know what I mean? Come on. I mean, come on. Yeah, and I didn't use you know, she gives you the option of sour cream or cream, sour cream. Come on, always come on, please.
+
+[47:10] Uh yeah, so then uh uh then uh I cooked it in the ANOVA precision because I wanted to try that, and guess what? No cracking, no worrying, no nothing, no water bath, no, everyone hates any of you guys cheesecake cookers? Yeah, yeah, you water bath, yeah, yeah. Sucks, right? Yeah.
+
+[47:29] Sucks. Oh, put like three layers of aluminum foil around it. Put it in the water bath. No. No.
+
+[47:37] No. Just set your steam oven on the temperature you want the thing to cook to, right? 176, 80% steam, and walk away from it for three hours. Because guess what? It can't overcook.
+
+[47:48] Right? Then you do that. You still have to do the the uh you still have to do the the long drop, the long cooldown. So left it in the oven with the thing, you know, properly open, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[47:59] And great. Not not overcooked, not broken, not cracked, not dry, no skin on the top, nothing. Dream. And the right amount of pumpkin pie to cheesecake. Because I love the first bite of pumpkin pie, but then I want some other bite in my mouth.
+
+[48:16] So the second bite is cheesecake, and then I'm ready for the pumpkin pie again. Of course, I still drowned it in whipped cream, because please. Does anyone like pumpkin pie without whipped cream? If you eat whipped cream at all. I don't need some or vanilla ice cream, but yeah.
+
+[48:30] Oh, vanilla ice cream. Yeah. Uh okay. Oh my god, some human candy canes are walking past us. Slash bar.
+
+[48:37] Are they are they barbers or candy canes? Some sort of mix, some North Pole. Christmas North Pole light that they're holding. Oh god. Uh anyway.
+
+[48:47] Uh what about ice cream and whipped cream? Yeah, why not? Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.
+
+[48:52] Thank you. Not gilding marble. Tomorrow's the tree lighting. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[48:57] Are you uh so what are your feelings on the tree lighting? It used to be one of your most joyous things. How are you with it now? That's what it costs us. That's what cost us our bar.
+
+[49:05] So I hate it. Yeah. Yeah. Only it's true. Only Joe, only it's a true story.
+
+[49:13] Uh but you know, that makes it even more funny. You know what I'm saying? Uh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[49:20] So now, but like I think it's I'm kind of sad that like one of the few things that kind of brought you joy you now hate. Although I guess that's life, isn't it? Yeah, me too. Me too. Yeah.
+
+[49:31] Yeah. Uh all right. So uh we we covered in a smothered pie, right? I'm probably gonna do some more. It's gotta figure out to make the color better.
+
+[49:40] Pomegranate juice doesn't have its enough color on its own. Somebody uh like texted in and said that there's reduced pomegranate that's different from like pomegranate molasses. Pomegranate molasses is too dark. Yeah, what's the word for pomegranate molasses? Pecmes, right?
+
+[49:55] So, like that stuff's too dark. But uh they said that there is just reduced, it has a bright red color. I'd have to test the acidity level of it and the sugar to see what's up. But yeah, I'm not opposed. Oh, by the way, Joe's key lime pie recipe.
+
+[50:09] The reason I chose his other than or his, I mean, whatever. He he died in like night with theirs, yeah. Uh uh, other than like it's famous and people like it, is is it used a relatively large ratio of uh of um key lime to sweetened condensed milk and had extra egg in it. So instead of a half cup per condensed can milk can, it was uh two-thirds of a cup of uh of uh juice per per condensed milk can and just had an extra egg yolk. And I was like, you know what?
+
+[50:38] Yes, you know what I mean? Yeah, you know what I'm saying. Uh so much whipping. Uh you know what? You know what's interesting?
+
+[50:44] Not interesting to anyone but me, but the original recipes, I think, uh were based on the original key lime pie recipes, as far as I can tell, back in the 20s, right? And maybe even earlier, were based on kind of uh lemon ice box cakes as a uh lemon ice box pies as like the basis of it, right? And uh they got kind of transmographied into key lime pie, but they started in the same way of having a meringue topping on top, because if you think about it, you're throwing away egg whites unless you're making angel food cake at the same time, you're not using that many, but like it you have egg whites because you have egg yolks, right? And so a lot of the original old, old recipes you'll see uh have a meringue topping on top of the of the um key lime pie. So then you have some people, northerners who are like, well, quote unquote say authentic key lime pie and then put a meringue topping on top of it.
+
+[51:36] But it turns out, as far as I can tell, in South Florida, that tradition is gone. And so, like, you won't see meringue tops. And so people are like, you don't know authenticity, they don't make them with freaking meringue on top. You know what I mean? Yeah, like that.
+
+[51:50] But it's so funny. It this is why authenticity has no meaning. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because, like, what do you mean?
+
+[51:56] Authentic to the 1920s, exactly. Authentic to what someone who's alive today is growing up eating. I mean, you know what I mean? Yeah, authentic to this. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[52:04] Exactly. Uh, as my family would say. Speaking of my family, uh Neko writes in, hey, do you have a recipe? That's because that's how my family does talk. You know how I say that's not how they talk?
+
+[52:15] That is how my family talks. You know what I mean? Authenticity, this. You know what I mean? Like, that's how they talk anyway.
+
+[52:21] But like, uh is that how you guys communicate too? Only through this radio show. Uh, well, I don't know if they've never called in. My family's never called in. Come on.
+
+[52:30] Really? No. I should get them to yeah, get them to do it. Let's crank call them. We should.
+
+[52:35] We should. So uh Neko wants to know. Do I have so I just have to say this again? I said it a bunch, but in case this is the first time you're tuning in, Boston, Italian Boston, like old school Boston Italian Americans, don't call pasta sauce sauce. They call it gravy.
+
+[52:53] Okay. I don't know whether that's other Italian communities in the East Coast or not, but in Boston it's gravy. Okay. So when I'm saying gravy, I don't mean turkey gravy, which is also delicious. You know what I mean?
+
+[53:06] I made a sick leftover turkey gravy, by the way, but I digress. Um so when I say gravy, I'm talking about what most of you think of as pasta sauce. What about Vancouver? They didn't call they don't call it gravy over there, do they? No, I mean, I think I can remember originally, Dave.
+
+[53:25] So get your facts straight. All right, but we would probably just call it like a Sunday sauce. We would not say gravy. No, right, right. Uh so do I know the recipe for the gravy of my youth?
+
+[53:39] Do I still make it or a variant of it? And I have to say, sadly, no. And everyone who made it is dead. Uh they're all dead. So I could not recreate it because you know I was pretty young.
+
+[53:54] Um, and that definitely it wasn't offered to me as a thing that I could participate in. And like I usually would show up for Sunday dinner after the making of it had already happened. You know, occasionally, like I remember my uh my auntie Annette making the lobster sauce. You ever had the Italian lobster gravy? So it's like it's it's a tomato gravy, but she buries lobster in it.
+
+[54:21] She'll split the lobsters in half and bury the lobster in it and cook it with it instead of the usual uh the brajole and the sausage and the pork chop uh and the meatball, right? Like instead of that mix, it would be lobster, and yeah, bring it up slow and let and great. But uh, I saw her make that a couple times at the Cape when she was visiting, but yeah, I wasn't there for the for the gravy. And my stepfather, who should know because he was around like from a being a small boy, that's not the kind of crap he pays attention to. You know what I mean?
+
+[54:53] Like, so unfortunately, my family's recipe is lost. Yeah, like literally everyone is dead. Who made it? I could maybe ask my cousin Tiffany, she might know. Anyway, I'll try to figure it out, Neko.
+
+[55:08] Because you're making me feel guilty for not knowing now. Now I feel bad. Uh although get get this. I went to my mom's, like I said, she has all she's like, Do you want any of these childhood books? I'm like, No, Ma, what am I gonna do with this?
+
+[55:19] What am I gonna do with this? I live in an apartment in New York City. You have a house, just keep it in the freaking attic. Or keep it in the boiler room. You have a boiler room, you have an attic.
+
+[55:25] I have no, I'm in an apartment. Does this happen to you, Nastasi? Your mom's like, take this, and you're like, I can't, I don't have a place. Oh, yeah. Any, anything, anything she wants out of the house and into my tiny place.
+
+[55:35] Yes, but what the hell are they gonna do with the space in their house? I don't know. I don't know. Nothing, more dolls. It well, you know, that was my dream.
+
+[55:43] I was gonna take everything I own and just invest it in American girl dolls, and you're and you're like, in the company? No, no, just dolls. But then I would play with them and ruin all their value. Remember that so good. So good, so good, so good.
+
+[55:58] People are like, is he nuts? And you're like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh and then Nastasia and I have visited the store, and it's the creepiest store on earth. I believe that it's so creepy. Anyway, I mean, kids love it.
+
+[56:11] People love it. Anyway, uh, where were we with this? My mom. So I found so one of the Eisenhower daughters, I forget which one, but one of President Eisenhower's daughters wrote a cookbook for kids in the 70s. And my mom got it for me in like 1976 when I was five.
+
+[56:30] And I immediately opened it to the page. That's where I got my paperbag chicken from. So paperbag cooking had a small resurgence in the 70s. She published the paper bag chicken. I then was I made that once a week, although, of course, I added my own spices.
+
+[56:46] Come on. And then uh, but I'm that was my once a week from the time I was like seven when I would make dinner, I would make paper bag chicken. I gotta make paperbag chicken again. I haven't made it in a long time. You ever make the paperbag chicken?
+
+[56:57] Never. You gotta rub the chicken with butter and then salt. And then, of course, because it was a 70s, I put curry powder all over it. Okay, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[57:07] Salt, pepper, and if you're me in the 1970s, curry powder. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh you know what I want to order from the 70s? I'm gonna do fully 70s myself this year. Uh, I want ribbon candy for Christmas.
+
+[57:21] Remember that? Yeah. Tastes bad. Nobody likes it. Yeah, no, not good.
+
+[57:25] But you look at it. So, does anyone else know what I'm talking about? Ribbon candy? Yeah. For those of you that like, you know, are younger, I don't know, it's literally sugar that's pulled and it looks like like a ribbon that's been like folded a bunch of times, like blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, like in in like a line.
+
+[57:43] And you're looking at it and it looks amazing. It's like glistening, it's like different colors, it's like hard, it's like, and it's just sitting there next to your orange that's all full of cloves. And I made those last year. Those things are amazing. You ever done that?
+
+[57:59] Everyone do that. Go do that this year. Do the orange with the cloves and the cinnamon. Anyway, I'm gonna get that. Uh what's I talking about?
+
+[57:59] Oh, Monty wants to know. As low-quality individual, I'll get my wild salmon at Costco already in pouches, which I cook with my jewels. So far, I don't like any of the temperatures. It's either mushy and metallic or kind of firm and metallic, but nothing fall apart savory like other salmon. I know it's an inferior product, but any tips on how to make it taste decent?
+
+[58:20] Elsa do you have a discount with Oricang? We don't right now, but I'm gonna get in touch with Michael Fabro because he's now doing his own farm-raised interior land-raised salmon. I wanna have him on the show anyway, because he's doing Ikime, maybe we can get a discount on his stuff. You also gotta be careful, because not all New Zealand King is Ora King. There's another company that does it.
+
+[58:37] And Wegman's whose fish counter is nuts. Their new fish counter is freaking bananas. And by the way, their King Crab, frozen king crab. Good. I had it.
+
+[58:46] Good. Okay. This is the frozen king crab from Wegman's. I'm like, yeah, good. Not cheap.
+
+[58:51] Good. Um Monty, I think your problem is you're leaving it in there too long. I would do something on the order between 50 and 52 degrees Celsius. But you only really want to cook it for about 20 minutes, or it's gonna start getting mushy. The longer you cook the salmon in a low temperature situation, the mushier it's gonna get.
+
+[59:06] So please let us know what your actual temperatures and times are, and we can like steer you to a better uh result. Uh Trevor wants to know, he's been working on putting brown butter into his buns, hoping the toasty flavor would come through. But so far they're just getting cool-looking brown flex, which you're trademarking is flavor flex. Any tips for how to get amp up the brown butter flavor? It's difficult because there's not that much butter in a hamburger bun.
+
+[59:29] I gotta think about it more to see how you can get more of that flavor in without just jacking the butter. While you gotta do it, you can just do brown butter solids? Or yeah, you know, but that's more flavor flex, and then what are you gonna do? I guess if you're gonna clarify a bunch of butter, you can take it up to a little bit of brown, like ghe it, like almost ghee it, and then use the solids. That's a good idea.
+
+[59:45] You should do that. Um it looks like we'll have to get to the other questions next week. On uh, David, I'm gonna get you on your malt powder next week. I got a lot to say about it. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues, coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan and Rockefeller Center, New York City, where I guess they have a Christmas tree. I haven't seen it yet. Newstand Studios joined as usual with uh John here in front of me. How are you doing?
+
+[0:23] Doing good, thanks. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Peachy.
+
+[0:25] All right. Yeah, great. Joe Hazen rocking the panels. What's up? Hey, how you guys doing?
+
+[0:30] Hey, I'm so in New York, I didn't even look behind me to see the tree. How about that? It's there. It's there. Did you hear the one at the White House of uh uh fell down?
+
+[0:40] No, sweet. Yeah. Dude, I love that so much. Uh we'll get back to that in a sec. I got uh Jackie Molecules over there in California.
+
+[0:51] How you doing? I'm good. Good, good. And uh Nastasi the Hammer Lopez, what's good? Uh hi.
+
+[1:00] Nothing's good. Nothing, nothing's good. Well, good. Stay consistent. And then uh in the upper upper left, we got uh Quinn uh rocking Vancouver Island.
+
+[1:08] What's up, Quinn? Yeah. Uh not too much. My uh sad news my Christmas water buffalo prime rib connection fell through. Yeah.
+
+[1:20] Yeah. Well, you know, maybe like what was it like a legitimate person, or was it like the butcher from uh Chicago that Nastasi and I was there's a legitimate person, but the just the logistics didn't work out. Yeah, so it's not like with us where the butcher is now in jail for doing illegal meat practices. Because that's what happened to us. Yeah.
+
+[1:46] But uh when we used to buy meat from that guy, it was uh one of Nastasia's favorite moments that I remember at uh the French Culinary Institute where we were cooking a whole raccoon. Remember this, Daws? Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. We're cooking a whole raccoon.
+
+[2:03] Low temp, sous vide, right? The same way that like I was thinking maybe it's kind of like a really big cooey, right? Because we used to take, you know, we would take the cooey and we would low, I did it with a you know, uh uh, he's now in bar, but uh he was in the culinary intern at the time at the SCI, and he was he was bringing in cooies for his final, you know, guinea pigs for his uh for his final project, right? Because he's Ecuadorian. I think he's Ecuadorian.
+
+[2:26] And uh I think and uh so we were low temping the whole cooey and then deep frying them to crisp up the outside, and you know what they were delicious, delicious. They're real good. So good. Uh I mean, like, talk about like if you need a whole animal on a skewer, I highly recommend a guinea pig. They I mean, like, you know, unless you grew up, you know, whatever.
+
+[2:48] You can get them at markets in Brooklyn, I've seen. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're always frozen. I've never seen one fresh.
+
+[2:54] Wow. I'm gonna go ahead and say, yeah. Uh yeah. John, not the same guinea pig, my friend. Uh but uh you know, I'm gonna go ahead and say it tastes better than rabbit.
+
+[3:07] Oh. Yeah. I'm gonna go ahead and say cooie better than rabbit. Okay. Anyway.
+
+[3:12] Wow. So Nastasia and I get this raccoon, and it's it's rather large. I mean, cooies are like, you know, like you know, a little bit, you know, they're smallish, you know what I mean, smaller than most rabbits you get. And uh uh this how big was that raccoon, Nastasia? I don't know, like 14 inches long.
+
+[3:30] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And gross, right? And so we low temped it and and then deep-fried it, and it was uh disgusting. It was just terrible. But that's not the good part.
+
+[3:39] The good part is at tour, they were constantly bringing tour groups by these big windows at the French Culinary Institute where we were working. And Nastasi and I only had access to the real kitchens for about 35 seconds every day in between the classes. We were like we would come out of our garbage room like roaches and rats and like work in the kitchen for like you know an hour before we get kicked out again. Remember this, Daz? Yeah.
+
+[4:02] We're like, we don't go back to our garbage room soon. You know, like that. Pretty much that's how we were treated. And uh, you know, please, please let me cook a little longer. Anyway, so um we have this like uh this raccoon that had just come out of the bath, like dripping wet with like oil and like all this stuff.
+
+[4:21] We're getting ready to deep fry it. Tour guide comes by with a group of prospective students. One person, Nastasi's listening because she's next to the window. One person what we have we had to leave when they came by the kitchen. We had to go back to the trash room.
+
+[4:36] Oh, yeah, because we weren't uh yeah, we weren't uh what's it called? Uh first of all, I refused to wear chef's hats because I was like, no. You know what I mean? Like there's a couple of things I refuse to do. So that was one of them.
+
+[4:46] Nastasia, too. Nastasi's like, if he's not gonna wear it, I'm not gonna wear the goofy hat. There's no way Nastasi was gonna wear that hat. My rice sauce, you're not gonna wear that hat. First of all, I understand it was a thing of still chef.
+
+[4:56] Yeah, I know. And the other, but the other thing is is that like it was well, okay. The other thing is is that we had to wear those super tall paper toques, you know what I mean? And you could not go into a fridge with one of those things without knocking it off your head and looking like a complete tool. You know what I mean?
+
+[5:13] I was like, what the hell is this? This is the least efficient method of covering your hair that I've ever seen in my life. It makes the strimel look like an effective hat, like a quick effective hat for a hair covering. You know what I'm saying? Anyway, uh the you know what they are?
+
+[5:29] They're the equivalent of those super tall, double tall bikes that you see idiots like hipsters ri riding around where if they stop they fall over because their feet can't touch the ground. One of those. Anyway, it's like that. Uh so anyway, so like we we huddle over and there's a thing, and so that the one of the you know, teenagers or whatever turn around, what do you think is their cooking? Tour guide, without missing a beat, looks over, goes, don't know, baby, and they just starts walking.
+
+[5:58] Oh man. That's one hell of an answer. Yeah. I don't know. Baby.
+
+[6:04] Just keep going. Nuts. Nuts. I don't even know how we got on that story. Talking about Christmas trees, not caring, New Yorkers?
+
+[6:11] I don't know. Something like that, yeah. Anyway, we're talking about uh buffalo. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[6:18] So uh I'm sure. Look, listen, if anyone can hear the sound of this voice uh within the next uh you know week or so, can someone figure out where my man can get him some uh some water buffalo? He was trying to choose between water buffalo and bison, but now he's choosing between nothing and cadopolis because he's not getting anything. You know what I mean? So instead he's getting the shkot on gorp.
+
+[6:38] You know what I'm saying? We're we're work we're working on plan A B C through D. Alright, well, what are C and D since A and B are are in the toilet right now? Well, again, going to the mainland and get Oh, you were gonna get some island, island buffalo. Well, no, here's the thing.
+
+[6:59] Okay, here's the weird thing. The animals, live animals come to the highlands and they get slaughtered, and then they get sent back. Why? Do you guys have different rules? Well, when it's on an island, we can kill them however we want.
+
+[7:15] I mean, like, what's the thing? I think I think because there are other or there were other bison ranches on the island. We may have an abattoir that specializes in Bison. Uh now I have in my head the word abattoir as used to be said by the Hearst Ranch grass-fed beef people. Abatois.
+
+[7:37] Oh, that was that was white oak pastures. Oh, white pastures. Yeah. Abatois. Oh man, that just brought me back.
+
+[7:43] Yeah. How good was that guy's voice? Was he a good dude or no? Great. Abato.
+
+[7:48] Oh, I don't know. I mean, from from what I could tell. Yeah, he has a very smooth voice for someone who's about to come up and kill you. Abatois. Will Harris.
+
+[7:56] Yeah. Um, so uh uh back to uh Christmas trees. Oh, by the way, uh on animals, uh Quinn. I've never had one, but I'm gonna I'm gonna go ahead and say that if you can get yourself a standing yak roast, as long as it's a high altitude yak, and there is actually a Colorado and maybe even a New Mexico high altitude yak f uh ranch. Yeah.
+
+[8:17] I've never bought their stuff because I don't have the money, but like uh I mean a Christmas yak roast, that'd be that would be nice. Have you ever been over to their butcher uh paisano's on Smith Street? No, but I like the name. Uh they have rattlesnake. They have a couple different types of bison, probably buffalo too as well.
+
+[8:36] They have some really exotic frozen, it's frozen meat, but is it good? I don't know. I it's just not my cup of tea to do any of that. Yeah, I mean like yak meat is legitimately delicious. Like straight up good, right?
+
+[8:48] Uh I've never had a huge I've had buffalo and bison, but never like huge things. I mean, uh back when I don't, it's hard to tell how much of the old writing about um you know planes, uh Buffalo, you know, planes, bison, like what their taste was like, because it used to be said that you could not eat your fill of it because people enjoyed eating it so much and it was like you know, relatively lean and and easy eating, but I don't know how much of that is colored by the racism of us wanting to completely wipe out the species so that we could also wipe out uh the people. Um it's hard to say. You know what I mean? Uh you can buy a bull caf yak for 2200 from this place in Colorado.
+
+[9:26] High country critters. High country critters by the whole thing. Yeah. But what if I am? Living.
+
+[9:31] Oh, I don't know. What am I gonna do with it? Hey, uh Jen. Good news, bad news. Uh bad.
+
+[9:38] Yeah. I got the I got the Christmas rose covered, but you know. Meanwhile, the yak will be so mad living in a New York City apartment. Like, there's nothing. Like, not only do I have to live in this tiny apartment, but it's like low le it's like low lying.
+
+[9:53] It's like taking a freaking marathon runner and like, you know, I don't know, whatever. So uh back to Christmas for a second. Uh Jack, tell me a little more about this White House Christmas tree falling over. I I don't know about that. I I heard on Instagram last week that there were the because the the major gusts of winds that occurred over on the east coast, uh took it down and no one was hurt, a lot of ornaments were damaged.
+
+[10:15] I think the tree kind of splintered. I'm not sure what they did. Maybe they put up a fake one. That's kind of sad though. Like if it's splintered, I mean, I like a good like uh my favorite was I was in Mystic, Connecticut, which is where my in-laws live, and they did their big Christmas tree light up, and like, you know, it was a huge build-up, like, you know, fake Santa and everything was there, the whole nine yards.
+
+[10:35] Like, we're all freezing our butts off because it used to be cold around that time of year back then. And they flicked off on the lights, and one half the tree went out. It like went pfft and then one half the tree went out, and I was the only one. I love stuff like that. You know what I mean?
+
+[10:49] Like I love the wont wa. Uh wow. All right. Um, yeah. So do you guys have any good?
+
+[10:55] I I have a good food story. I went to this uh restaurant. What was it called? Uh Temperance. Oh, nice.
+
+[11:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Good. So uh you have a very like crowd pleasing beef tartare. Thank you. Yeah.
+
+[11:08] It's been selling a lot lately, which I'm happy about. You want to talk about your uh particular tartare. By the way, it comes out looking like a perfect uh like a imagine if hockey pucks were big or you were tiny looking at a hockey puck. It's like it's like a hockey, right? Yeah, it's like a big hockey puck.
+
+[11:24] Right and the ring mold and snuffle, yeah. Yeah. Um struck off nicely, no little flurs of garbage coming off of it. Yeah. No, uh, you know what I love to see in a tartar?
+
+[11:33] Ropy, sinewy bits of like protein garbage like coming off of the fat chunks and forming like little weird hairs. Yep. That's my favorite. Yeah, it's great. Yeah, I'm kidding.
+
+[11:42] I hate that. Yeah, so we take hangers, grind it up, and then mix it with uh dice shallots, capers, and then uh like a piccoly aioli. So it's uh the Heinz piccolilly um from the jar and then egg yoke whistershire, Tabasco, black pepper, uh and mayo, and then just toss the meat with that and put some chives on top, give it a little color, and it's delicious. Yeah. Yeah, the uh yeah, it's the what I like about it is it's got that, it's got a good uh the acid hit from the, I guess from the pickles.
+
+[12:16] So it gives it that like uh it's got that, it's got a real nice acid tang, which makes it so you know how like a lot of times tartare if it's not balanced right. You can be like one bite, you're like, yay, and the next bite you're like, and then you're like you know what I mean. It's kind of like I am with like when someone gives you too much foie. Yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[12:32] Yes. That too much foie feeling. Yeah. Uh some people can't have too much foie, but like I I can. You know what I mean?
+
+[12:38] Like I love some foie. Yeah. And I could eat non-finite amounts of uh a pate de foie gras spread on infinite amounts of bread. Yes. You know what I mean?
+
+[12:49] Uh but you know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's like, oh, more unctuous, thanks. Yeah.
+
+[12:53] But like the the uh the acid I think really uh really really uh brings it out and makes it, I think real crowd pleaser. Thanks. Yeah, no, I'm appreciated. So it's been selling very well since I put it on the menu, which I'm happy about. Yeah.
+
+[13:04] Yeah, you know how like a lot of times when you have uh acid and something like that, the meat, especially if it sits around, can get kind of grainy because the acid changes it and the bind gets weird. Yeah. No, no. Good, good. Glad to hear that.
+
+[13:16] Thank you. Yeah. Had your fra Diablo, so uh you know what that you know, I think Fra di Avlo is hilarious. Because for me it's a 70s thing. Oh, yeah.
+
+[13:23] It's delicious. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or 80s. I guess it's more eighties. But 'cause everything in the eighties, mm, fra diallo.
+
+[13:28] Yeah. But like uh Jim was like, you know, Jen, who's my age, was like, how bicycle you'd think that's not gonna be that spicy. Come on, it's not gonna be that spicy. Come on. This isn't like, you know, you know, Uncle Boone's or whatever.
+
+[13:37] It's not gonna be that spicy, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, it was not. Good. Yeah, good. Glad to hear that, yeah.
+
+[13:43] What else do we have? I don't remember. The chocolate mousse, the special. Chocolate mousse. Yeah.
+
+[13:47] Which you've never seen the movie Top Secret. No, it hasn't. I forgot you said that. Yeah, yeah. You gotta see the movie.
+
+[13:53] Which one? I only I don't there's quite a few. I don't like the first one, Val you know, Val K Kilmer with Yeah. That's someone chocolate mousse is the character in it. So anytime someone says chocolate mousse, in my head, I'm hearing chocolate mousse.
+
+[14:06] Uh I mean it's I don't think are you allowed to do stupid fake French accents anymore in movies, or is that considered not okay? I don't know. I I don't think like Peter Sellers would do very well right now. Oh no. I was thinking about that.
+
+[14:20] He is one of the more talented, only did racist bits actors ever. The party? Oh, the most racist. So hardcore. Peter Sellers did eat there was never a situation he couldn't make racist.
+
+[14:32] You know what I mean? Like it was just I mean, even in Doctor Strange Love, as strange as that movie is. Yeah. It's pretty like, what are you doing? He nails it though.
+
+[14:42] Yeah, he was, you know, uh, by all accounts, like a messed up dude in the real life. You know what I mean? Like super talented. Super talented. You know.
+
+[14:51] Hey, I got some news for you. Um uh we we had a candle company in here last week for another podcast called Magical Moments. And uh the company is called the New Savant. And I told him the story about the Geosin. Oh, yeah?
+
+[15:04] Yeah, they loved it. They're like, oh, that's uh, yeah, because we're working with Geosin right now with some candles to make a you know the smell of the the smell of rain or or or petricore is as is as it is called. Yeah, yeah. Dirt candy, great restaurant. Dirt candle, I don't know.
+
+[15:22] I haven't been back to dirt candy in a long time. But yeah, so like I'll check out their candle. You send me a link to their to their uh their candle and uh because every time someone comes to my house now, it's like anyone knew a lot of dirt smell. I got it. I got extra, not using it.
+
+[15:37] Anyone, Joe, you do not want this thing of dirt. Imagine if someone spilled that dirt thing in here. Oh my god. I mean, I I like the smell of dirt. So, but I mean, that's a pretty intense.
+
+[15:46] I I find it hilarious that you overindulge the uh uh uh uh the pool uh with um, you know, or or whatever your beverage. Yeah, only by a factor of a million. Yeah, right, right. You know, like only added a million times too much. You know, literally oh I got a caller, caller, you're on the air.
+
+[16:07] Ooh. Wow. Is this is Andre 3000? Uh oh my goodness. Since I do not speak Bensorry, I will have to translate.
+
+[16:41] Uh hello, how you doing? I hear that you were gonna be on the show, but instead you're bottling olive oil in uh in Philadelphia. Is that true? We are prepping everything today to bottle the oil tomorrow. This is Nick Coleman, Captain Greasy on the line.
+
+[16:57] How you doing? Oily, Captain Oily, apologize. Yeah. Great. We have air shift in oil, even though there's a global shortage of olive oil.
+
+[17:05] We have secured oil for the rest of the year. We have air shifted in. We are bottling it, and we will be shipping it to the world starting in the middle of December. Yeah, yeah. So uh we're gonna we're gonna do a a Patreon thing for our Patreon fools.
+
+[17:22] Uh you guys already have a Patreon thing. Oh nice, so it's still active. All right. Well then you they should they should go on, but they should go to uh give 'em, give them your give them your website and tell us what new fancy oils you get in. By the way, world short on oil.
+
+[17:35] My man Nick, long, long on oil. You know, quick question. Are you are your shipping international now? Yeah, we ship international. Oh.
+
+[17:43] Well, what kind of what kind of international? Like everywhere international or like Canada, Mexico International. Everywhere international, though there are an additional shipping costs um going internationally. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[18:01] Good luck when you ship to Canada and people get bent by the fact that uh, you know, they're like the VAT's not included. You're like, I don't know how to calculate it. Amazon won't let me. That is that's all, yeah, like clearly uh outlined on our terms of agreement when buying international. Yeah.
+
+[18:19] That is up to the individual buyer. Do you know what's nice about Amazon is they just let you buy it and don't put those terms up, but then the people blame us and then we eat the entire cost. Isn't that awesome? That is not awesome. Yeah.
+
+[18:31] I like it. Do you know the word for not awesome is nawsome? Like kind of like like nosh nauseated awesome? Not like it's yeah, not awesome. It's so it's so nauseum.
+
+[18:43] Awesome. Oh is that a new word? Did you just make that up? Were you trying to get traction on that? Is it like donkey balls?
+
+[18:49] I want everyone to use donkey balls. I think fat mic from No Effect uh like got it coined in the urban dictionary. Oh, nice. All right. You know, the urban dictionary, if it had even a modicum of editing, so that you couldn't just like go and put your best friend's name in and like give their name definition as butthole, I think it could be like a lot better.
+
+[19:10] You know what I mean? Yeah, you know, a little bit of regulation, uh you know probably probably a good thing. I'm not talking about a lot. I'm talking about like rap genius level of editing. You know what I mean?
+
+[19:21] And that's sad because I had a friend who was an editor at Urban Dictionary. Wow. They did a terrible job. Yeah, what'd they what they do? Just sit around and get high all the time.
+
+[19:31] No, no, no, no, not that kind of person at all. I mean, I think there's a lot of really bad stuff they have to kind of take down. I think they got their hands full. You know. So it's it's more like I mean, because like half of it is supposed to be offensive.
+
+[19:43] Every slang word is supposed to be about something offensive, right? I mean, not every, but a lot. Right. But where do you draw the line? Because I'm sure there's some stuff that's just, you know, where do I where do I draw the line?
+
+[19:58] Donkey punch. Yeah. Well I think every slang word is about uh like something derogatory, like you know what I mean? Yeah, no, not every word. Just many.
+
+[20:13] Look, in the eight in the see, in the nineties, right, there was the American Dictionary of Slang that came out just before the internet, and it was amazing. It was an amazing. I think they only did the first two volumes, at least I only own the first two volumes. And when I used to read that, it's just like a it's just like every word what was a uh what is it, v vulgar wulgar, right? A stupid or or was it stupid or or execrable person.
+
+[20:40] That was I think they they like everything was like that. You know what I mean? I loved it. Loved it. Right.
+
+[20:45] You know what I mean? Gotta up your gotta up your insult game. Yeah. You know what I mean? Anyway.
+
+[20:50] Uh so uh you want to tell us any interesting oils that you're super excited about right now? Yeah, we have uh so we're airshipping in uh a really cool oil from the region of Kusha, which is in the northeast part of Latvia, sort of in between Tuscany and Umbria. And uh it's made with like a very classic three olive single estate field blend of pendolino, leccino, and morolo olive, which are typical olives of central Italy. And it has this beautiful leafy, grassy aroma with an undertone of almond and cinnamon. And this balanced bitterness, long covery finish.
+
+[21:30] We're gonna be releasing that to the public around December fifteenth. It'll start shipping. And uh super fresh oil from uh the last week of October's harvest. So it's an early harvest oil, really vibrant, really clean. Um then we're doing a collaboration uh with Axum Bronson with this really nice Sicilian oil from the town of Agrigento in the southern part of Sicily.
+
+[21:54] Uh and that's a monocult of our Nuchulara oil that will be released similar time. We're we're gonna bottle that at the beginning of next week, and I'm really pissed. How are the uh polyphenols on that? I really like Sicilian Nuchalara when it when it uh when it's an ask uh buck kicker. It's it's in the medium robust profile.
+
+[22:12] It's not as high as like the Cherasuola olive or the Coratina olive. Those are gonna have higher levels of polyphenols and antioxidants in them. But this is a little more balanced, versatile. Should I really, really nice. Should I should I troll you about uh oil color or not?
+
+[22:30] About what? Oil color. Should I troll you about oil color again? I don't know. I feel like I've done it too much, but I enjoy doing it.
+
+[22:36] I enjoy getting the you to hear your spiel about like because you get so bent about like people thinking that it's green, go ahead. Or it or whatever people think, you know. If it's if it's yellow, it's gonna be buttery. Right. Um, I love hearing you go ape on it.
+
+[22:56] Don't judge an oil by its color. I mean, whatever. And um, can't is it true though that some oils will change in color in a bad way as they oxidize and go rancid? Yeah, they'll turn orange. Yeah, orange.
+
+[23:14] But um, but the whole thing, like anyone who's listening, if you've never had very, very fresh olive oil before, it's a different thing. It's a fresh fruit juice, and it and it's clean, and you can consume a lot more of it because it's actually light. Yeah. And uh really wonderful. So I I like the fact that you think of oil as juice.
+
+[23:37] Well, because the olive is a stone fruit related to the peach cherry plum and apple. That's Joe Hazen is is uh loving it. So I found some David Carradine uh flute playing from Kung Fu. Really? Well, someday we're gonna get uh we're gonna get a fluteist in here.
+
+[23:57] Like wait, Han plays flute, right? Or she composes for flute. She composed for flute, composed for flute. Yeah, composes, yeah. Yeah, so so this is uh she's like a you know uh a bartender in uh in Los Angeles who does a lot of non alks at um Kato restaurant.
+
+[24:16] And so we had her on the show a while back, Nick, and she was she's a composer, classical composer, as well as a bartender, and she composes music for flute quite often. And so I was like, oh, we need to get you uh on with Nick to do a dueling banjos kind of a situation, flute bansouri. And I said that you could be Nick, you could be the crazy guy on the porch, or whatever that you could be the, you know, the the the weird dude on the porch, you know what I'm saying? And uh, she had no idea what I was talking about. She'd never seen or heard of dueling banjos or deliverance or the anything.
+
+[24:46] You know, can you play some sort of bansuri like diddling ding ding ding ding ding ding? Is there some sort of equivalent to diddling ding ding ding ding on on a bansuri or no? Yeah. Yeah, sweet. This is gonna happen.
+
+[25:05] This is gonna totally happen. We're gonna make this happen next year, Stas. That's on the agenda. Okay. Yeah.
+
+[25:12] Next time we do an LA thing, maybe. Get her live. Jack. Jack and Polski in Merlot wrestling, too. Oh, yeah.
+
+[25:22] Never happening. Wait. Well, I don't understand. How is that? How is that undignified?
+
+[25:33] Wrestling in a pool of Merlot, how is that undignified? Jellied. Jellied Merlot. Oh, I'm so I'm sorry. It's not beat.
+
+[25:42] All right. That just brings all the dignity back. No one wants to slop around in a puddle of spilled wine, but if this is a jello ring, it it just reeks of dignity. Right? No, never.
+
+[25:56] Was Polski down, Stas? I don't remember. I feel like he was, yeah. I doubt it. All right.
+
+[26:04] Um by the way, what we got a caller? Oh. Oh, here we go. Yeah. One second, folks.
+
+[26:16] Took me a second to find it. And then remix it because it can't really play this on radio. Because it's not cleared. Exactly. So that's fair, you come on.
+
+[26:40] The old call and response. Guitarist still think he's gonna kick butt. Oh, yeah, I see what you mean. Now you're getting into banjo territory, Mr. Guitar.
+
+[27:18] You're ready to have your butt handed to you. Oh my god. It's so awesome. There's everyone's reason to upgrade to the uh video plan of the Patreon, huh? Let me tell you something.
+
+[27:55] Let me tell you something. I mean, banjo is such a great instrument. Anyone that don't look, Steve Martin's been saying for decades, don't listen to my comedy, listen to the banjo. I mean, I know what it's doing that, but I think in a way, you know, he's right. Yeah.
+
+[28:11] Banjo's a great instrument. Underappreciated, as is as are the bagpipes. I don't know about the band surreal. I'm still on the fence. I uh I'm trying to learn to appreciate the band serium more, my man Nick.
+
+[28:20] Like tell me, tell me something that's gonna make me appreciate Bansory more. It's just relaxing. Oh, yeah, that's totally anti my vibe. You know what I mean? Is there sort of any sort of bansuri music that kind of makes you stand on edge and run around and beat your head against the wall?
+
+[28:39] Because that's more my speed. Um yeah, I think if you like ran it through a distortion pedal. Oh my god. Yeah, we need that. Oh, wait, we have a caller.
+
+[28:48] Caller, you're on the air. Hey, how's it going? Going all right, what's up? Uh I have a question about Sue Vide uh procedure and maybe just uh an adjustment to what my expectations are. Oh, great.
+
+[29:02] An actual cooking technical question. Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah, right. So um I am a private chef and I do small scale catering and stuff when I I pre cook a lot of my meats at Sue Vide, and I am then re reheating them, usually in this in the circulator, and I'll do it at like five degrees lower than what the end temperature is, and then do like a finishing sear, aerosai brown in it butter kind of thing.
+
+[29:26] And to me, it's just not very juicy. Like it's not Yeah. Give me an example. Give me an example of a cut. So uh I just did chicken breast for somebody.
+
+[29:40] Okay. And what what was your protocol? Cooked it at 149. Uh in this case, I did season it ahead of time. Cooked it at 149 for an hour.
+
+[29:50] Uh my general procedure is to cook 'em. And it's it's all kind of based on the chef's steps guidelines, uh, like through the jewel app and stuff, like time and temperature and stuff. Super handy. Um so cook it, uh, I pull it out, let it rest at room temperature to kind of come back down to temp before I put it in refrigerator to like fully chill. Uh it hangs out in the bag and then reheat it on site, cut it out of the bag, brown it up on the in the in the pan, and then slice it and serve.
+
+[30:19] So you're you what are you and you're reheating it like you said five degrees, but like you're just basically reheating it up to like 140 up to 60. Yeah, one like 130 to 140 or 135 to 140, kind of depending on what the cut is. If it's something that's a lower temperature, like if I'm doing beef tenderloin or something like that, and they want it like medium rare, then I'll just like bring it up to like 120. Yeah. Um, or I will sear it and then slowly bring it up in an oven.
+
+[30:45] Um, but the bet yeah, I love the benefit of the soup eat you can do all the temperatures kind of at the same time. But right now, yeah. On the chip, so in general, there's two different kinds of problems. So, like on the on the chicken, not after an hour, but do you have that in Celsius, John? 149?
+
+[31:00] 149 is 65. All right, it's a little high, right? It's a little bit high to hold it for an hour. Um, you'd want that middle to probably get up to like sixty-three, but I don't think it's gonna be that big of a difference between six sixty-five and sixty-three. Um have you ever d do you have the say like uh I'm just trying to figure out where the dryness is happening.
+
+[31:20] Usually what happens when chicken stays too long, and an hour is not too long. I mean, I prefer like on a breast because breasts are depends on how big the breast is, too. Like if if you're doing a small breast, it's gonna get up to temperature in about 30 minutes more. Yeah, yeah. 30 minutes.
+
+[31:33] So if you were doing sixty-five, you probably only need like about 30. I mean, I would temp it and to see what your temp is in in the middle, right? And a lot of these longer times are are designed so that um designed so that if you stack two together, you're still not gonna get any parts that are viciously, you know, uh uh uh uh undercooked. But uh but um the what happens typically is uh the meat gets kind of fibery, right? So uh if you overcook it, they get that you get it mushy, not tender, mushy.
+
+[32:02] Exactly, tender, not mushy. And the issue with that is is that the to me the characteristic of that happening is that the first bite is seems like it has juice, but then all the juice leaves and you're left with a mouth like you're chewing like a wad of fiber, basically. Uh like that's like the characteristic. Yeah. Um so usually I've noticed it with I've noticed it with other cuts too, and it's kind of like across the spectrum.
+
+[32:25] Like I love to do the the pork shoulder at 135 for like 24 hours and then you chill it, slice it and stir it up in a pan, and it's just like you don't get the that like juice running all over your cutting board, which I suppose you don't want anyway, if it's properly rested, but then when you like, yeah, when you bite into it, it's just it's not necessarily dry, but it's also not like juicy. Right. And I'm just trying to understand if again, if it's just my own perception, like if that's not a result that you can achieve with sous vide, if it has something to do with the fact that I am cooking it, cooling it, then re-eating it, like would it be better if I just cooked it and then served it straight away? Well rather than going through that cooling procedure? Yeah, not according to Bruno Gusot.
+
+[33:04] Uh but so what I would do is I would do a multi uh so uh another thing I do, uh you know, just so like as soon as as soon as the meat gets up to temperature, a particular temperature, the protein coloration, the look of the meat is gonna be relatively stable, right? So if you got you. So what I do a lot of the times to preserve texture, especially in uh beef uh uh and and things like that, is where you want to let them ride longer to have to to make it more tender, is I'll hit my target mark and then I'll drop the temperature while it's cooking, not on the reheat, right? So that the majority of the time after the internals reach what I need, it's at a lower soak. So I basically I think of like your your cook point and then a soak, which is what I would do for something like the pork, right?
+
+[33:53] Um but um any any meat that starts out tender that you cook for a long time is only going to get more fibery, right? Or more but not fiber, but like get that thing that we're talking about, right? Because it's already tender, right? So you're always kind of in this like uh back and back and forth um with it. So but on the chicken, what I would do is I would first try to knock your time down a little bit.
+
+[34:18] I would then also I would try I would taste it before you sear it. Right? I would taste it before you sear it. Okay. And uh one, just taste one before you sear it.
+
+[34:29] And if that one's good, then it's uh overcooking on the sear step, right? So like that in which case what that means is is that you need to either pull it out of the bath uh a little while longer before you sear it, accelerate your searing technique, right? Like the easiest way to accelerate a searing technique is to pre-sear it because it takes half the time to get a crust on something that's been pre-seared, right? So Yep, and that's that's something that I that's something that I do too. And like in the case of pork, like I won't season it until it until the end because you get that kind of handy texture.
+
+[35:03] But in this case, and this is the first time I've done chicken breast in a while, believe it or not, uh, but I did pre-season the chicken, sear it, and then bag it, cook it. And went through that whole procedure and it the texture on it was fine. I thought that was great, actually. But it's a little bit like not juicy. So seasoning, seasoning, um, it's interesting.
+
+[35:20] So I've changed my feelings a little bit from, you know, in 2012 when you know you'd hope that you'd learn something in 11 years, right? But um a lot of my issues with pre-seasoning, uh pre-salting, let's just call it salting, right? The other seasonings, a lot of it, like we're talking about funk functional seasoning. So a lot of my issues with pre-salting uh meat, um, specifically beef, uh, and these are tests that I did with ribey's because that's the steak that I love to cook the most. Um, we didn't like the meat when it was uh seasoned, cooked, salted, cooked, chilled, and reheated.
+
+[35:55] The same meat was good if you didn't chill it and reheat it. And um the reason was is that it just got, like you say, kind of a hammy kind of uh uh firmer texture, right? Which makes it eat like a not as good cut of meat as it is. So then I I I I I went to whenever I was going to do a cook chill, reheat, I would never salt the meat. But then I discovered that um you can get around that by just dropping the temperature once you hit the target.
+
+[36:26] So you hit your cooking target, and then so I I never keep a steak, like a normal steak that's like around an inch, inch and a half. So an inch thick steak, I'm only cooking it at my cooking temperature for about 45, 50 minutes. Inch and a half, I don't really raise it that much because I really don't need the inside to get that high. And then I drop it down to the safest, lowest, the safe the lowest safe temperature, which we can argue about what the lowest safe temperature is, but I put it at 52. Um as long as all the things are separated and the outside's already been kind of flash pasteurized, so no none of these like bacteria that are on the outside of the steak can get growing.
+
+[37:03] And then I do my soak at at 52, so I get my tenderizing at 52, and you have to let it ride, you can let it ride for a long time, then chill it, and then you don't get that kind of cured hammy taste. It's keeping the meat at its finished cook temperature for a long time in the present of presence of salt that gives it that kind of hamminess. And then it's long cooking of any cut of meat that's already tender that gives it that kind of over fibery thing, which is why it's very hard to do a good job on um, for instance, a tenderloin, because it just doesn't have any connective tissue, and so it's basically done the minute it hits temperature, and you don't want it to go any longer than that, you know. Um, because there's no collagen, no connective tissue going on in there, right? Yeah.
+
+[37:46] And by the way, I'd say, I actually like tenderloin. I'm not one of these haters. Like, if someone hands me a like a nicely cooked filet, I'm like, this tastes good. I'm not gonna lie and be like, me, me, me, it has no beef taste. Yeah, it's good.
+
+[37:57] It tastes good. I'm just gonna go ahead and say that. To me, it's all about context. Like my my preferred way of having a tenderloin is like pretty rare, but done on like a high at a hibachi restaurant. Like I used to, that was actually what my first job was working at a local place that did hibachi, and they you know, they sear it and they like slice it super thin and do like this whole kind of sauce on the on the hibachi with like butter and soy sauce and all that stuff, and that to me is great.
+
+[38:23] Like I don't think I'm gonna speak out a tenderloin, but I'm definitely, you know, to me it's all about context. Like, and I like temperatures for different stakes. So, like I prefer, generally speaking, like medium, rare, medium, but for tenderloin, I'll take that rare, medium risk. You know what I mean? It's nothing wrong with tenderloin.
+
+[38:38] I'm with you on that. Yeah, and that's exactly right, right? Because like it wants to be at a lower temperature, and it's so it's perfect for someone who's gonna use infinite heat for relatively short amount of time, so you get some sort of textural difference and put some sort of I don't know. I was thinking like, you know, remember those pe remember when everyone had a peppercorn sauce? Oh, the peppercorn sauce.
+
+[38:55] I love peppercorn sauce. I was gonna say, I'm I'm from I'm from Des Moines and we love our uh fillets just like swimming and cream sauce, and that's always Yeah. A good uh a good experience as well. Steak de Virgo. Have you ever had steak de Burgo?
+
+[39:09] No. It's only you can only get it in Des Moines. It's usually medallions of tenderloin. Well, there's a couple of different schools of thought on it, because it's kind of like a hundred-year-old tradition. But um, I think the original one was like tenderloin tips that were seasoned with like Italian seasoning and then like browned up with some garlic and then like swimming in clarified butter.
+
+[39:32] Um the version that I learned and the version that I do is more like a tenderloin medallion, but it's pan seared, pan roasted, and then garlic shallot, white wine, heavy cream, Italian herbs, fresh basil, and uh a ton of butter, too. Oh, sorry, shouldn't have first no that that what yeah, what's what's the what's to go wrong with that? Uh I used to make something uh not like that, but a cream-based one with uh mushrooms and onions that was a old Julia Child recipe. That was good. Oh yeah.
+
+[40:00] Yeah. And go go tip. Love me and snake guy, and too. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
+
+[40:06] Oh, hell yeah. Oh man, bring back bring back tableside and flames, man. Always. Do you know like yeah, you know what I mean? It's like and look, no one's gonna no one wants to do that kind of stuff anymore.
+
+[40:17] Like, because it's just not the way it works anymore. But like I always love when I see like someone who has the table side skills, I'm like, whoa. Table side Caesar. Oh man. Old school?
+
+[40:29] Yeah. Where they're where they do the rub and toss. Yep. Rub and toss. Now that's not an urban dictionary thing.
+
+[40:29] That's an actual culinary technique. What'd you say? I've never had I've never actually had crepe suzette, but after having watched a bunch of videos, like I get it and I understand how freaking good that would be. Like crepes termalized and like flam made with sugar and like an orange like Grand Marnier butter situation. Like, yeah, give me that.
+
+[40:52] I want that. That sounds real good. I like it. It's a little too alcoholic as a dessert for me. You know what I mean?
+
+[40:59] Like I like my desserts to be my dessert and my alcohol to be my alcohol, but I understand that everybody that I am weird. I understand that this is a me thing and not an everybody thing. You know what I'm saying? Maybe it's because I used to have it as a kid. Whatever you take, crepe Suzette, and then put it in your five-ton press.
+
+[41:17] I could totally do that. You could totally do a crepe crepe Suzette. Uh my my home press is only four ton only four tons. Don't don't oversell it. Only four tons.
+
+[41:27] But uh yeah. I know I just wrote are you gonna stuff are you gonna stuff the crepes with like a like a soft like sweet cheese too? So that would be some good kushbacker. Well, you'd well, so what I would okay. So if you were ac if we were actually gonna do this, I would I would soak the I would soak maybe flambe some of it or burn some sugar, throw it in with the grandma, in with the crepes, and then add another base because uh otherwise it would be too sweet, squeeze the heck out of it, and then probably do uh like a milk syrup or yogurt syrup for the cream base, uh, and then shake that, shake that up and you could do yeah, yeah.
+
+[42:09] It would be good. Do you know what I'm working? I I shouldn't say you know what I'm working on now? So like you know, I might I might I may I may do a uh I may be involved in a bar program next year early next year nice uh yeah so uh if I say this and somebody else comes out with it before I do or should I not say it I'll murder all of you ready ready for it uh there is a uh a dust cloud called Sagittarius B2 that has very complex organic molecules in it that were formed you know in space on ice sheets right and one of those uh compounds smells like almonds and the other one smells like raspberries and rum so I'm gonna do a raspberry raspberry rum raspberry orjah uh raspberry almond orjah like rum drink and it's gonna be called Sagittarius B2. I already claimed it so anyone that hears this I claimed it right now as far as you know I already made it and so you're ripping on me if you do it.
+
+[43:08] I'm gonna yeah can I can I can I claim uh that you made that for my birthday because my I'm a Sagittarius my birthday is on December 8th yeah sure yeah can I uh take it up there also uh I don't think kind of taking a step back here with the grand with the uh situation I really love Aperol or Capari with like orange what if you did a little splash of that at the end to kind of like cut through some of that sweetness I don't know I mean it also has a lot of sugar in it uh I think I said this on the air interesting thing about compari and april same sugar level same exact amount of sugar just yeah the compari is more bitter small bit uh that's why. Yeah, I've measured it. All right. Well, uh it's December, so let us know how your Sagittarius B2 cocktail comes out. Although remember, I did it here first.
+
+[43:54] You already heard it here first, people. All right. Yeah. Yeah. Uh thank you.
+
+[43:59] All right. No no worries. Um okay. Uh okay. Did I already read the question last week about uh potato starch clarification?
+
+[44:09] I can't remember what I read last week and what I didn't read last week. Maybe whatever's in the new document should be new. Oh yeah. Well, I know that's not the case because we I know we talked about Yandu last week, and it's right here at this as the top top thing. Yeah.
+
+[44:26] Yeah. So maybe yeah. So, you know, lack lack of trust is based on based on facts. Real quick, let's push the Patreon discounts on all that stuff. Um so everyone just uh usual weekly push to sign up for our Patreon.
+
+[44:42] Patreon.com slash cooking issues. You get a lot of um awesome uh perks with the memberships. Some levels you get the video feed so you can see Dave dancing to dueling banjos. Um you get access to the Discord with uh great community of like-minded listeners, always talking, asking questions, things like that. You get discounts to places like Grove and Vine and Kitchen Arts and Letters.
+
+[45:02] Um, and then also for our listeners in the greater Toronto area, we got a great pentatone kind of partnership discount going with uh Toronto Panatone. One of our listeners, Mike makes a really, really, really fantastic product, and he's offering uh 10% off to us, so that's in the Patreon as well. And if you're in that area, you should definitely order some panotone for Christmas. And we've had it. Yeah, very good, very good.
+
+[45:27] No uh by the way, or since um Grove and Vine is an older code that's still active. Anyone that's new to Patreon just has to go to the cooking issues page on Patreon, and there should be a little search bar. So research olive oil promo code that is still active. Comes right up. Hey Nick, you still still with us?
+
+[45:53] We got an olive oil question. Yeah, you'll get you'll get 10% off the Grove and Vine products. What's the olive oil question? Well, so I don't have the answer to this. Uh I texted uh Harold, but I haven't heard back yet.
+
+[46:08] I think I have ideas, but I don't want to like go out and say them because you know, uh, because probably I'm wrong. Uh Christian wrote in, uh, I've made a couple of flavored aeoles uh recently. Uh that not they're not sure if that's the right term. Doesn't matter. We know what you mean.
+
+[46:23] Uh specifically one with a coffee garlic and another with uh a cilantro slash serrano peppers. Peppas, uh steak and peppers. Nastasia likes the steak and peppers. Um no, not pepper, not steak and peppers, pepper steak. Pepper steak is not steak with peppers, it's black pepper on steak, Nastasia.
+
+[46:42] Uh no. Which? What do you mean no? It's neither. I don't know what pepper I don't know what pepper steak is.
+
+[46:50] So you said that you went to this restaurant, pepper steak, that's all you were talking about. We couldn't go get the pepper steak, instead we had the I don't know how they make it. Is it black pepper or big chunks of sauteed peppers? No. No, no, no, no.
+
+[47:06] What do you mean no? Neither. It neither has black pepper nor peppers in it. Uh maybe both. Okay.
+
+[47:19] Okay. Whenever I make these aioles, they seem to taste best immediately uh after making them, but after sitting for even an hour, they begin to taste more and more eggy, bordering on metallic. And the cleaner original flavor is masked by the metallic one. Is there any way to avoid this? Here's an example recipe for context.
+
+[47:38] One yolk, one half cup, they use uh they're using a neutral oil, so I apologize. But like I know this thing happened oh, and then two to three tablespoons of uh olive oil added after blending. So they're worried that if they make the aioli with the olive oil, as you know, olive oil can go bitter when it's uh made into an aioli in in an electric machine, right? In a in a in a blender, which is I forget what the cause is, but I used to know the cause of that. And then uh garlic and salt.
+
+[48:04] You any ideas on this, uh Nick. I'm not sure this is an olive oil question, but uh if you know, if your concern is that the oil's too strong or too bitter or something, I would use a more delicate sweet mellow oil, such as an olive oil made with the Arbecina olive or the regional Northwest Italian cultivar Hajiaca olive. Well those will be more delicate, mellow and sweet and won't overwhelm the garlic and other nuances of the ale. Yeah, but I don't think that that's what's happening. Do you know what the mechanism of olive oil going bitter is when you make a mayonnaise with it in a blender?
+
+[48:45] Sometimes? No. Me neither. I do not remember it. What I think is happening is something in their flavored olive oil and the garlic is getting a sulfur interaction because yolks like eggs have sulfury crap in them, and egg-y smells are usually I think sulfur related smells.
+
+[49:03] And garlic flavors are all about sulfur smells. And in fact, memory serves me right, uh, like uh the real like Spanish style, and Nick, you'll know this. I I won't remember, and John, you probably know the real Spanish style, uh, the the garlic thing don't have egg as a binder. They use garlic as the as the emulsifier. Yeah.
+
+[49:24] I think it's um I think it's something going on with the eggs and the garlic. Here's something else you might want to think about. You're thinking that when you comfy the garlic for a long time that you're wiping out all of the stuff in the garlic that can make all of those things. You are not. If you take that garlic and add fresh garlic to it, it will pungentify a lot of the stuff left because you haven't wiped it out.
+
+[49:45] Super high temperatures, like in a pressure cooker will knock it out, uh, but not just straight confie or cooking, especially depending on how long you've done it. So I would say you can use the garlic as an emulsifier without the egg yolk, and and just try it. And if it it it if that's better, or if you can use a fake emulsifier to do it, then it's an interaction between the egg yolk and the and the garlic because that's like some sort of sulfur on sulfur action. A lot of those things give kind of egggy or metallic notes. And uh if not, it's the i I don't think it's an interaction with the flavor flavored olive oil you're adding that you whisk in later.
+
+[50:24] I think it's probably between the egg yolk and the garlic. That's me. That's my guess. I haven't heard back from the the McGee yet. Um, all right.
+
+[50:33] A clo is this clove or chloe? Clove. I'm gonna say clove. Is there any way to reheat Hollandaise sauce from fridge temperature? I've tried everything.
+
+[50:42] Uh delis in a water bath, as low as 100 Fahrenheit, it takes forever and still splitting. Tried uh flat vac bags, they too split. I want to make large bat batches and serve it uh in an easy. Okay, listen. I don't know, but have you tried just letting it split and then beating it back together again?
+
+[50:59] Right. Um, some things like some emulsions can be put back together. As long as they're not entirely broken, you'll get what's called like a synoresis. So some of it will leak out, but as long as the base emulsion is there, you can get the liquid back into it. Or are you talking the grease comes out?
+
+[51:17] If if if if it's a liquid out, you can usually get that back in. If it's an oil out, you're pretty hosed. What do you think, John? Have you driven it? I don't know, when not with a holiday specifically, but when you break an aioli, you can always take that out of the container, clean it, then put fresh egg yolks in there and then redrizzle the content in a metal reamulsify and get it back to where you want it.
+
+[51:39] Yeah, but they're looking to another thing you could do is set it with gelatin. That's what Wiley used to do. Uh he would set, he would set it with uh, he would add a little gelatin to it. It would set it and it would like sterically inhibit it from breaking. And then when you reheat it, it it does it never has a time as it's cooling to kind of flocculate and break.
+
+[51:59] Uh so that's another thing. I mean, I'm sure you could do it with non with non-meat-based uh products, but um, and then you could also just uh add uh emulsifiers to it that will keep it emulsified no matter what. You know what I mean? Like uh uh I don't know what would be best for that, but you know, you could start with something simple like uh like a Xanthan Arabic mix uh, you know, um, because I know that works for butter syrups. So if you can make a butter syrup uh with um with uh Ticoloid 210 or 310, which is essentially just a mix of Arabic and Santhan, then I'm sure you could also stabilize a holidays with it, right?
+
+[52:38] Which is nothing but thick butter syrup. Yeah. You know what I mean? If if you think about it. Uh I like Hollandaise.
+
+[52:44] Love Hollandaise. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. X Benedict would be my last meal.
+
+[52:50] Really? Yeah. With lots of Hollandaise. Okay. What pork?
+
+[52:55] In the Benedict. Oh. Anybody? Oh. Call out.
+
+[53:06] Yeah. Have you Nick, have you ever tried Toronto real Toronto pea meal bacon? No. It's delicious. It's delicious.
+
+[53:16] Sounds good. It's good. It's it's a it's one of those things where like I'm just mad that uh you know just yet another thing that Americans have marginalized Canadians with by, you know, with what we call Canadian bacon here. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[53:29] Just another bit of skullduggery on our part. Add it to the list. Um William wrote in, I don't know if I talked about this last week. Someone stop me if we have uh if Dave starts an academic journal he can file this under the proceedings of the Society for low quality individuals. That'll be a good journal.
+
+[53:46] It's for for everyone. Yeah it's true. Yeah. It's a journal for everyone. Uh over dinner with my wife I was describing the recent advantage uh advances in clarifying ginger juice.
+
+[53:55] Uh to clarify again I'm not that insufficient boring guy. She has a PhD in engineering and was actually interested. I mean those aren't mutually exclusive. They could be both true. Yeah.
+
+[54:06] Uh I had mentioned how starchy liquids were a longstanding clarification problem and had seen recent progress. She stopped me and asked if potato starch could be clarified and now wants to know how close humanity is to raindrop mashed potatoes. I hope very, very far, William. Very, very far. Very far.
+
+[54:23] Actually, I remember, I think I want to say David Zilber. It wasn't clarified, but he did post about I think it was him, juicing potatoes, and then he he hydrated the starch. So it was like a weird, clear goop that wasn't pleasant. But then he figured out they could it could absorb a lot of butter. Yeah.
+
+[54:50] Apparently there was a decent. Well, okay. So William was like, I figured they would be the authority on the feasibility of raindrop mashed potatoes, which would be unholy clear mashed potato gel. Uh maybe this would be a Jack Shram territory as a gelatin master. Is this the future that low-quality humanity deserves?
+
+[55:04] All right, listen, here's the issue. This I'm gonna file this under the same category as the warm ice cream category. So for years, uh chefs were were trying to figure out how to make hot ice cream, right? That was a thing. And so everyone thought they, you know, Wiley, everyone was working on this hot ice cream problem.
+
+[55:22] Uh, food technologists, right? And uh yeah, they never got it. They never got it to work because you're looking for something that inherently isn't going to work, right? So they were using methyl cells, something that melts as it gets cooler. But the the problem is is that it's just not it does it just doesn't work.
+
+[55:44] It just doesn't work. Anyway, so like Alex and Aki have posted about it. Everyone's posted about it. I was there at the time. But the thing is, is it doesn't work.
+
+[55:53] Nobody likes it. It's not a good product. You know what I mean? Like, so like so like the issue with this is that uh it with mashed potato, right? We can make goop.
+
+[56:05] You can even, first of all, anything that is a small enough particle to be thyxotropic, right? So like to act like a mashed potato such that it's relatively smooth. If you take a clear gel, the closest you can get to this, by the way, is to take a clear gel. There are plenty of them. But then when you blend them to make a fluid gel, which is the closest thing that you're gonna get to a mashed potato, not clear anymore because it's a lot of microparticles that as the light goes through them, right, they they they bend.
+
+[56:30] So you know, and they get diffused. So it's always going to look um milky, right? Or, you know, it's like fluid gels are never, you can get them fairly clear, but the clearer they are, right, the less they act like mashed potatoes, and the more they are like hair gel. So anything that's gonna have kind of clumpy properties in it is gonna have to, it's gonna bend light in a weird way because it's gonna have a bunch of shards in it that you know don't work right. It's easy to make clear starch goop, right?
+
+[56:59] Because a lot of think of cornstarch, right? And you can even um like corn uh potato starch will clarify, it's relatively large. So if you, and there's lots of techniques that are built around this, uh in Korean cooking, I can think of a bunch of them where you you grate your potatoes and then you take the potatoes out, you let the starch water sit, you harvest the starch off the bottom, and the water is fairly clear, right? Um but what's left over isn't uh gonna be uh a mashed potato. I think it's not uh, I think thankfully this is not uh something that we have to worry about in the future.
+
+[57:30] You know what I mean? Agreed. Yeah. Thankfully. Thankfully.
+
+[57:33] Oh my God. Um Dave Klein writes in, can I make malt syrup from malt powder? I have sous vide and PID uh oven so I can do long low temp things. If so, how? And what's the proper pH of a bagel boiling solution as well as the proper bricks so I can get an idea of how much local uh local ingredients to use, concentrated liquid malt extract, et cetera.
+
+[57:52] And 14 pH uh lye water in Thailand. Okay, strictly speaking, you don't need uh to you don't need to uh lower the, you don't need to raise the pH of the water for bagels, although it will make the crust better. I don't have like hard numbers for you. Uh the the issue with malt is malt means many things to many people. So there's malt powder and diastatic malt powder.
+
+[58:16] This is made by grinding up like bulted barley. It's essentially a flour, right? One of which is sweeter, uh, sorry, one of which still has enzymatic action, and one of which is not. There's then also dry malt extract, which is where you make a malt syrup, which is predominantly sugars, right? And you know, and then stuff you could actually brew beer with and then dehydrate it.
+
+[58:37] So that's dry malt extract. Um usually when you're cooking with malt in the water, I'm adding malt syrup. And so actually, since I don't really have maltose or malt syrup lying around, I usually use honey because it's also a reducing sugar and it'll give you that nice kind of a brownie thing. Uh I'm sorry if this wasn't answering your question, but this is this is what I've got in this short time it's being uh uh allowed to be. Um my god, here's a Hanukkah question.
+
+[58:59] Can I get to it? 36 seconds, because we're gonna miss it. I'm having a little Hanukkah party for about 10 to 12 people. I know I'm a bad person if I make lakes ahead of time, but the party's really for a few kids all aged seven or under, making the lockies while everyone's uh locked while everyone's over seems like a nightmare waiting to happen. Plus I'm a bad person.
+
+[59:12] Any tips for how to do it and have the lackers be as good or almost good as fresh, I've seen a buffer a bunch of different suggestions, including undercooking them and refrigerating them and throwing them in a hot oven. Don't refrigerate, freeze. Freezing is a dehydration product, and it's gonna make the uh it's gonna make it crispier on reheat, but you should really still fry them. You should make them frozen, heat up a uh a small thing, and then fry them. That's really uh cooking them all the way up but only two hours in advance and holding them in a 200 degree oven with the orange.
+
+[59:35] No, no. If you hold them in a 200 degree oven with a with a door jar, unless you have very good skills with like an APO and like a you know a combi oven, they're gonna get the texture's gonna get ruined because the latkas are not meant to sit. They're not meant to sit, they're meant to have a crispy outside and like a nice inside. The best way to do this is to pre-make par cook uh par fry and then freeze them and then and then fry them from fresh, which is pretty quick if you're if you're willing to do that, or go on to Simplot, which is the one of the two largest potato manufacturers in the world, and they make what they call quote unquote old European potato pancakes that are made frozen. And you know who makes good potato products eat better than most of us?
+
+[1:00:12] Simplot. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues, coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, New Stand Studios. Joined as usual with uh John sitting behind me today. How are you doing? Doing great, thanks.
+
+[0:22] Yeah? Yep. You lying. No. No.
+
+[0:25] Start to the week. Okay, great. Soups. Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels. What's up?
+
+[0:30] Hey, how are you doing? Welcome to a Tuesday cooking issues. Yeah, yeah. Over there in Los Angeles, we got uh Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How are you doing, Stas?
+
+[0:40] Good. Yeah. Great. Yeah, yeah. And uh, and uh, I think we got Jackie Molecules over there as well.
+
+[0:47] Yes, sir. How's it going? Um, doing well, and you know, I love to say we also in the upper left-hand corner, Quinn, we got Quinn's, we got uh a full of the full cooking issues crew. But even better than that, even better, we have today as our special guest, long, long, long time friend of uh the show and of ours personally, Dr. Ariel Johnson pushing her new book, which I am holding the first ever, I don't know, hold it up to the camera, the first ever hard copy of it ever off the presses.
+
+[1:16] And by the way, Ariel, you know, I still have my original, the original first liquid intelligence that came off the press, and that became our bar standard, and I it's all marked up and like so hopefully you'll do the same with your original copy. Flavorama! A guide to unlocking the art and science of flavor by Ariel Johnson forward by Rennie Redzepi with 99 recipes. Now you got two things going through my head with the 99 recipes, Ariel. You got 99 problems, exactly.
+
+[1:44] Which obviously you're referencing. Yeah. Yeah. And then last night I was at uh Amori Margot, the bar here in New York. Um, and Austin Hennelly, our friend uh from Kato was doing a pop-up there with uh with Max Green.
+
+[1:57] It was totally packed. But Cato just got named to like the I thought it was the this is how stupid I am about LA Stas, you'll appreciate this. I thought it was the hundred and one best restaurants in LA, and he's like, No, it's the 101. It's like 101 because of the freak of freeway. And I was like, Mocker.
+
+[2:13] Wow. Wow. Yeah. Anyway, welcome on the show. Thank you.
+
+[2:16] Thank you for having me. Yeah. Nowhere I'd rather be. You haven't been live at the new at the new place yet. How do you think?
+
+[2:22] Would you like our dicks? It's uh it's it's lots more uh marble and shiny gold stuff than uh than uh the trailer in Roberta's, definitely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But plus you get more fish bowling from people, you know. Can go get a bottle of wine.
+
+[2:35] Yeah, hipsters don't look at you as much. We looked at them. Yeah, Nastasi. I kind of miss that. You don't get like the Well, this is a magnet for tourists who are here to look at things.
+
+[2:46] So yeah. Hey Nastasia, who was your favorite Roberta's person to look at, to watch? Wasn't it um Nazi Jesus? Uh yeah. Well, he was no, no, it was there was uh there was Jesus, it's Indy Jesus.
+
+[3:01] Indy Jesus, I thought. It was Indie Jesus and uh uh and Santa's Nazi Nazi Elf. Yeah, remember? Yeah, it was like that guy was such a character. Like it was the exact cross between an elf and like uh uh like a cartoon Nazi.
+
+[3:22] It was craziest thing. That's a I don't think I ever saw that guy. Oh, yeah, you would have noticed. Maybe, yeah, yeah. Like the tight tight shorts, though that look and that like elf at the same time.
+
+[3:32] Weird. Real weird. I mean, it's not that weird for Bushwick, but. Yeah. No, you know, I have not been back to Bushwick in years.
+
+[3:41] I have no idea what it's like over there now. For all I know, it's all people in suits. Not not that many suits, but like a bit more people who look like they are product managers at a tech company. Um five years ago. Definitely.
+
+[3:53] Okay, exactly. Yeah, I don't know about that. Oh, hey, uh, so nor so the way this works now is that we all kind of shoot the breeze over what happened in the past week, but I do have a small announcement first, right? Right now, In from Booker and Dax just landed in the United States, are a small batch of Sears all pros. That's right.
+
+[4:13] Sears all pros. Get them while they last. There's 50% more Siri area now with map gasket a Sears All Pro. Get a Sears O Pro. Hey, everybody, get a Sears All Pro.
+
+[4:24] Yeah. Okay. Uh that was my little announcement. And by the way, if anyone wants to become a sponsor on the show, I can do things like this for your company as well. We might have to take you up on that for the book tour.
+
+[4:39] Okay, everyone gets the same jingle. It's gonna be like, hey, everybody, whatever it is. Always the same basic jangle. Uh call in your questions too, uh uh Ariel at 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507.
+
+[4:54] Uh so now we shoot the breeze about uh the last week. Anything other than the fact that you have the first ever copy of your new book? Yeah, well, I have the first ever copy of my new book. Um by the way, fantastic. I I didn't get to finish it because I just started reading it.
+
+[5:07] Uh, you know, yeah, I just received a copy recently. Uh, but I like it's like uh all the hand drawings, very like nice punchy color. Also thank you. Like for a con I was like worried because like for a complicated subject, right? It's like it looks kind of small.
+
+[5:21] Well, no, well, it's like a three. Well, it's like 320 pages, which is uh that's a good that's a good length. But I mean it's not like uh a it's like it's there to help you. It's not there to be like must learn science, must learn science. You know what I mean?
+
+[5:29] It's like very helpful. I mean, there there was a version of it a couple years ago that was like 175,000 words. That's a lot where I hadn't like yet let go of the academic tendency of like I have to show that I know everything about this so that people take it seriously. Uh well there's a couple that's not fun to read. There's a couple of science, like so like you, you know, tell me if I'm wrong, but like you know how like there's a whole group of scientists who get real bent when you like anthropomorphize things at all or make things at all kind of easy for people to understand because they're worried about people's intuition slipping into whatever.
+
+[6:07] Oh yeah, no, they're they're very vocal about my work, yes. Yeah, but I think it's very helpful to get people to understand what's going on, and the stuff that you say that's like that doesn't lead people's intuition in the wrong direction because you're careful about that. Well, and you have to you have to understand you're like not speaking to you know someone with a background in any of this. You're talking to someone who's like maybe curious, but like doesn't have you know the reference points are analogies, they're not like theory. Uh so you have to make a decision about like, well, do I want this to be like academically accurate to like the current data, or do I want people to leave with something true and useful that they just learned?
+
+[6:45] I mean, my bet is useful. Yes, yeah, yes, yeah. So like I have this problem whenever like even just like I'm like I'm doing the update on uh liquid intelligence and and Jen, you know, who edit you know looks at my stuff, it's like what the hell? He's like, I was like, but I have to, or I'm gonna get crap from this other butt head. Oh yeah, oh yeah.
+
+[7:01] You know what I mean? Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Oh, also, in case, John, in case you weren't already gonna run out and buy this, it's not available until March. So we're gonna have you on again.
+
+[7:09] You can pre-order it now. Yeah, it's available to pre-order. Can you pre-order it at Kitchen Arts and Letters? It's where I want you to pre-order it. I I don't know.
+
+[7:15] You'd have to ask them, but uh uh most of the online uh spots bookshop.org if you want to support your local uh independent bookseller. Yeah, okay. I mean uh we'll talk to qu like either John or Matt. Why don't you hit up uh uh John or Quinn, hit up Matt and uh at Kitchen Arts and Letters, see if we can get them on the pre-order because then because we will do the you know our Patreon discount. Uh I don't know if they can apply it to a pre-order.
+
+[7:40] I don't know how it works. Uh I don't know how to know. Yeah, but if I if I were a smarter business person, I'd sort that out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[7:47] Uh the other thing is that if you weren't already gonna uh buy this book, I'm pretty sure it's the only book on this subject I've ever read that quotes Mike Tyson. You know? Pretty great. Pretty sure. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[8:02] Well, I mean, you know, it's uh if uh if it's if it's true, it's true. Yeah, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everybody's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth. That's true.
+
+[8:10] Yeah. Uh and you know the thing is like early on, he never used to get punched, so he kept his plan. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. It it is uh the wisdom of experience, I think.
+
+[8:19] Remember how fast he used to be? He was so fast. Vaguely. Like he's he used to they used to just like show like videos of him like dot like they'd have these things swinging at his head and he'd be dodging them and like you know, beating everyone else up at the same time. He was just like uh a f a phenom.
+
+[8:36] You know what? Um anyway, so back to shooting the shooting the breeze. Anything other than this uh fantabulous thing arriving at your uh doorstep that happened? I mean that that's a pretty momentous one. Um yeah, uh I guess professionally, not much else super exciting going on now.
+
+[8:54] No. Any terrible meals or good meals? Terrible meals. Um I had like um well, I mean, maybe I should have known what I was getting into. I had like terrible takeout pizza from Italy.
+
+[9:04] Uh, but I was with like it was one of those situations where you were like with family and someone decided to make a takeout order, and it's like, you know what? Just let's do it. It's because it's easy, but uh very good. So, like, you know, I yeah, I just like whenever like I have to eat something that I know I don't want, I just turn off. It's fine.
+
+[9:22] Yeah, I mean, it's like I'm hungry, I know that cranky if I don't eat. So you know, you know who can't do that? Nastasia. She she still gets mad at me over bad lunches that she's had like 10 years ago. Like we uh we'll have a bad lunch like 10 years ago.
+
+[9:37] And she's like, you know why you're a bad person. No, no, no, no, no. She's just like, why did you sit around? Tell them, Stas. Tell them the lunch.
+
+[9:47] I think I told you, Ariel, when we, me and Dave and Harold, uh-huh, like we had to go to the fruit tasting, and they were all gonna the people that were hosting us were having lunch after it. No one told us to bring our own sack lunch, so we just sat there watching them eat their sack lunches. I mean, that's that's like uh such a bad meal that there is no food involved. That there was like crackers or some crap. It was it's just like who cares though?
+
+[10:13] That's the thing, but still ten years later, I gotta hear about it. Bad meal with good hospitality versus poor hospitality is like uh this was no meal, no meal, no hospitality. We were there to do business. Right. Like I wasn't there to like become friends with these people.
+
+[10:26] I was there with friends, at least I thought, like Nastasia and Harold, like Harold was cool with it, right? We were there to eat an ungodly amount of citrus. And you know what we did? We ate an ungodly amount of citrus. Uh-huh.
+
+[10:40] Yeah. And so, like, you know, the fact that everyone else was a huge weirdo, and I didn't have, you know, we didn't have like, you know, prepare lunch. So what? Like. So what?
+
+[10:52] It's it's funny. It's funny that uh uh the the the framing that Nastasia is still angry about it years later when uh you're a little worked up about it. Well, I'm just worried to me it's just like indicative of like our whole relationship that I don't understand. Anyway, uh what about you, Stas? Do you have any uh good or bad uh indifferent uh food or otherwise moments?
+
+[11:14] I had to go to Vegas last week, and I had a really good meal at a Jewish deli, not near the strip. Huh. Nice. Is it like is it the same same as like in New York style, like the big things of pastrami or what it was um yeah, it was pastrami sandwiches and chicken noodles, like it was super, it's called Weiss's deli, and it's in like a strip mall and it's packed, and it's really good. I have never been to Vegas.
+
+[11:47] I've had some really good Hawaiian food in Vegas. Really? Yeah, Vegas has like the largest population of people from Hawaii outside of Hawaii, so there's a lot of like strip mall places with like really good plate lunches and really stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. Macaroni salad, mahi mahi.
+
+[12:04] These are two places I've never been Hawaii and Vegas. Well, I've never been to Hawaii either, but uh my wife was born there and she's never been back. Interesting. They moved out when she was three. Yeah.
+
+[12:14] Anyway, military. Uh well, military kid. Yeah. Yeah. But she's got the Hawaiian uh middle name and her sister has the Hawaiian first name.
+
+[12:21] Oh, okay. Yeah. All right. Nice. Uh, what about about you, uh molecules or Quinn?
+
+[12:27] What do you guys got? I uh I actually went to this place called with with Nastasia, actually, and my girlfriend, we went to a place called Genghis Cohen, which is they call it New York style Sichuan Chinese. The ridiculous name of a restaurant. Like I keep seeing that place on Google Maps when I'm in LA and I'm like, I've gotta I've gotta check this out sometimes. I gotta I gotta say, like, even though like uh like you like clearly, like this gotta be a place that's been around a while, right?
+
+[12:51] Because you couldn't come up with that name nowadays, but I kinda love it. I kind of love it. It's great. Yeah, how was the food? It was it was great.
+
+[12:59] Like they didn't try to do anything too new to it. It just tasted like a regular New York City Chinese place, you know. Genga's going. It's very comforting. All right.
+
+[13:07] But it's one of those menus that's just impossibly long, you know, where there's like eight different sections and like twelve different fried rices, and you're like, I don't know. I I always wish those places just had like a let us choose, you know. I wish every place on earth had that. Yeah, truly. I know.
+
+[13:23] I never want to make any decisions ever. Hate choice so much. Well, it's like you guys will know better than me. Like you know you know your food. I want other people to have choices, right?
+
+[13:33] Like, you know, from a you know, but I I don't want to choose. You know what I mean? I I feel like I make so many choices like in my professional life that in my personal life it's just nice to sometimes not make decisions. You know, uh okay, okay. Sorry, Stas.
+
+[13:47] Good beat on you again with this, but that's another thing Stas hates about me is that like when we order, I always want to order last. And it's it's it's it's ti I don't know why, actually, as I'm saying it, I don't even understand it, but it's like it's tied into the not liking to choose kind of a stitch, but it pisses her off so much that even though she doesn't you don't even care, you just don't want me to do that, right? Right, right. So I tried to be the last one with how I'm around you up there. For no reason.
+
+[14:22] For no reason. Yeah. For no reason. Yeah. I'll know what I want, you know.
+
+[14:26] Yeah. 20 minutes before you. Yeah. Yeah. Whereas, like literally, I don't know until my mouth opens and words come out of it.
+
+[14:33] And then she'll get mad at me for asking the the server. I don't know. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[14:40] No balls. No balls. I have balls. I just don't care. I I don't care.
+
+[14:44] I don't like the one to choose. Yeah, I I find sometimes it's like if I if I don't have something that's like a basis for making an opinion, like I can't make an opinion. Um, although I have been working. Sometimes, I mean, having just said that, like, that is also a great way to make yourself crazy. And sometimes just making a decision feels a lot better.
+
+[15:03] Yeah. Even if it's not like the perfect decision. Look, if I go to a place and it's a crap hole, I'm just gonna order what I want because it's all gonna suck, right? If I go into like a garbage can diner, I'm gonna get corned beef hash and eggs because I know it's gonna come out of a can and I don't care how overcooked it. Yeah, you know it's gonna be consistent.
+
+[15:18] You know what you're gonna get. It's not gonna be a surprise. Or if I'm not in the mood for that, I'm gonna get a patty melt because pretty much as long as it comes with the requisite crap, I'm gonna love it. Right. You know what I mean?
+
+[15:27] You know, I go to a diner, order pancakes because they're just going to be pancakes. Yeah, they're gonna be like you're gonna be diner pancakes. They're gonna be bisquick level, friggin', whatever. And the person who makes them makes like hundreds a day, so they're gonna be. Oh my gosh.
+
+[15:40] Speaking of uh restaurants, like this. Did you hear about the California Chipotle lady? No. Oh yeah. Oh my God.
+
+[15:48] Best ever. So this lady, uh, she shows up at a restaurant. They're short staffed, right? And I think it was even the shift manager was working doing I think I think she was a manager, maybe she wasn't. And so she so she makes this lady's order, and the lady's like, it's wrong.
+
+[15:59] So she's like, fine, she'll make it again. She makes it again, gives it back to the lady. It was still wrong. So then the lady starts a burrito, starts yelling at her, throws the freaking burrito in her face. So she's got sour cream and hot burrito and and you know what Chipotle burrito is like so much rice and garbage in that thing.
+
+[16:25] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not like the yeah. Anyway, so like that stuff's all dripping all down her face.
+
+[16:32] She has to go in the back room and compose herself because she's at a workplace in front of a bunch of people and she's just had a freaking been assaulted. Fair. Anyway, so luckily a bunch of people recording lady gets arrested, right? So she goes to trial, she gets sentenced to 90 days in jail. But but the judge says that they'll knock 60 days off if she works in a fast food restaurant for 60 days.
+
+[16:57] Amazing. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. I can think of a lot of people that should be sentenced to working in a fast food restaurant or other service job for 60 days before they're allowed to be out in public again.
+
+[17:08] What kind of just what? Yeah. Like you know what I mean? Like what? Yeah.
+
+[17:14] Like it's one, it's just a burrito, and two, like. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I don't know. Like it's not.
+
+[17:22] Those are also people, you know? Like, yeah, I know the woman who was assaulted. She ended up quitting her job. She'd been there for four years, and like has pe understandably PTSD from it. And I think it's trying to figure out something else to do, but yeah.
+
+[17:34] I mean, I've never had that happen to me. I still remember bad customers. I mean, I've been screamed at, but no, I've never had anything thrown in my face. Yeah. How about how about these people?
+
+[17:42] Have you ever been hit with a large candy cane? Hello, fake candy cane people. These people, it's not a candy cane. It's like a it's like a peppermint stick. A peppermint stick barber barber pole scepter.
+
+[17:55] This is Rockefeller Center uh at Christmas time. It's just I don't know, it doesn't make any sense. Like why are they walking around? Yeah, I guess that's a thing. You know.
+
+[18:04] That's not a thing though. No, I know, I know. But like it's like like uh I mean like elf on a shelf was oh listen. Invented wholesale like that. Yeah, well, I mean it's all invented wholesale.
+
+[18:14] Sure, sure, sure. But like sorry, and invented wholesale uh uh within the time period that I have been an adult, and so therefore, you know, like in the immortal words of Douglas Adams, uh uh newfangled and wrong. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. If it was wholesale invented 25 years ago, then it's as the world should be.
+
+[18:31] I'm sure Hallmark was behind that. Probably someone making a uh uh um a truckload of money on this. But uh so earmuffs, any small children's earmuffs. But uh yeah, my my n my niece, man, she's all about that elf. Oh, okay.
+
+[18:46] She's all about it. You cannot you okay, get this. So for those of you that don't know what we're talking about. How old is she? Uh like about that high.
+
+[18:54] Oh, okay. Yeah. Uh so like uh so uh the deal is is that this elf, right, moves it's a stuffed elf, but it comes alive at night, which by the way, that should scare the hell out of you right there. Right there, if you have a stuffed animal that comes alive at night, hide your knives. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[19:12] Yeah. Anyway, so like the elf like moves from place to place in your house, quote unquote moves when it comes alive at night. If you touch it, get this. This is how demented this is. If the kid touches the elf, the magic is gone, it's dead.
+
+[19:27] Yeah. That's horrifying. Yeah. I had no idea that there was this uh like disturbing lore behind it. I thought I just watched you.
+
+[19:34] So that's also like surveillance state uh allegory. He's not even allegory. Exactly. And that's how. Yeah.
+
+[19:42] I mean, wouldn't you then want to touch the elf to, you know, remove this panopticon situation from your uh living space? I mean, that's what I do. I was like, you know, like touch wood, touch elf. Exactly. Kill that thing.
+
+[19:52] You know what I mean? Like, but like, uh, yeah. So like, yeah, they're petrified that they are gonna like murder. I don't think maybe it doesn't die, it's just it just doesn't come back into that stuffed creature anymore. I don't know.
+
+[20:08] All around creepy. Yeah, I mean, I think I feel like, you know, f folklore is full of scary stories like that, but at least they like have some kind of important lesson that they teach. Like, don't go out into the woods at night when we are in a pre-technological society and wolves will definitely eat you. Yeah. This just seems like cruel.
+
+[20:27] This is important information. Don't touch crap your parents don't want you to. You know? Like, I wish you know what I mean. Let's design something that children want to touch and then tell them that they can't touch it arbitrarily.
+
+[20:40] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it'll be amazing if they did it like my the way my old apartment worked. If I said don't touch it, it would probably really hurt you if you touched it.
+
+[20:50] Right, right, exactly. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You're not allowed to do that anymore either.
+
+[20:55] Oh, hurt hurt have it hurt people when they touch it? So, one of the reasons we moved out of the garment district where I had my loft was it just wasn't a great place for kids, right? We had Booker and our radiators when they came on, which was, you know, not that often. But when they came on, they were like super super duper super hot, and you couldn't like, they weren't in clothes at all. Because it's garment district.
+
+[21:15] Right, right, right. And so Booker's first word was hot. You know, in the like 17th and 18th century, they used to put kids in like, you know, babies toddlers in uh super long nightgowns that were you know, that was like their day day-to-day wear, were like nightgowns that were way too long, so that like they were they had a lot of trouble crawling because it would get like tangled around their legs, specifically so they could not accidentally like launch themselves into the fireplace. Oh, I like that. So there is so there is an intervention for this situation, but it is uh But if the gown does catch it.
+
+[21:52] Oh man. Uh you know what? That's the thing. People are like, oh, uh, you know, kids were fine back in the day. No, they weren't.
+
+[21:58] They died all the time. 50% infant mortality rate until like the mid-19th century. Nope. Yeah. Just because we used to do it, doesn't make it a good idea.
+
+[22:06] Um that's actually why the life expectancy, you see, like, oh, life expectancy in the Middle Ages was 35. It's like, yeah, because lots of people died before they were five. If you made it to 35, you probably live a while. Uh Quinn, you got I know you said you were doing some uh oh, Quinn made his uh his uh persimmon, he's gonna call this his sorbet, but it was very highly pectined, so it had a lot of texture, right? Is that those high pectan sorbet's well no?
+
+[22:32] I I well I did both a gelato with a little bit of dairy and a cervet, straight like 90% persimmon. Was it chewy? Was it chewing? No, it was but it had a good texture. Again, I still stabilize it a little bit, but it was really good.
+
+[22:52] And did you taste the one that had too much succinic acid in it? And what was the story with that? Oh, it was actually it was good. Didn't taste like persimmon. Tasted more like oysters and blood.
+
+[23:07] No, it was like persimmon apricot. It actually really wasn't bad. Okay. I made a banana ice cream over the weekend, actually. That was also chewy and pectiny in a pleasant way.
+
+[23:19] Yeah. But like uh using which uh technology? Uh like for freezing it? Yeah. Oh, just like uh countertop compressor ice cream machine I've had.
+
+[23:29] Oh, which one do you have? Let the Lello? The Lello, yeah. I got it in like two thousand eight, I think. So I it's definitely not a current model, but it it it's also made to two thousand eight standards, so it does actually run quite well.
+
+[23:42] All right, so on the Lelo, uh on the Lello, the okay, correct me if I'm wrong, batch time is somewhere like 18 minutes, right? 19 minutes? Mine was more like 25. 25. But it wasn't like ice, I mean it was like fridge cold, not like ice cold.
+
+[23:56] Right. So on those things, when you harden them off, does the texture really suffer from the long batch time, in your opinion? Well, like I mean, I was talking I was talking to my husband about this because we were like testing a recipe, and I was like Shout out to Tom. Shout shout out to shout out to Tom. Um hi sweetie.
+
+[24:18] Uh where like, yes, this is not at the quality necessarily that you would get from an ice cream store, but it's still uh ice cream at your house that you made. So like it's a little, yeah, it's a little grainier than I'd want if I was buying someone else's ice cream, but like if it's ice cream for me that I made, I still get, you know, there's that. It's exciting to have that. Um so you know, if it's still like pretty good, it's still great. So I just read a bunch of patents on um, I just read a bunch of patents.
+
+[24:48] So a problem that people want is for you to buy an alcoholic beverage, or not even alcoholic necessarily, but pretty much always alcoholic. And you put it in your freezer, and instead of getting the plate-like crystals that I like from quiescent freezing, they want it to come out of your freezer like a slurpee. So they uh I forget what the what the mix of it is, but they add um they add a bunch of stuff, like uh they add stuff to you know, stabilizers basically to prevent um prevent large crystals from forming, right? And then they add nucleating agents to it. I was about to ask if there's like a lot of yeah, yeah.
+
+[25:24] So they add insoluble nucleating agents to it. Uh they're tiny, right? Uh I forget which ones they used, but you ever experimented with this kind of stuff? Um, I mean, not on purpose. Right.
+
+[25:37] But uh or not in terms of like uh uh changing the composition of uh stuff to control ice crystal texture. But yes, I have uh, you know, accidentally and partially on purpose made plenty of uh iced iced slushy alcohol. Yeah. Yeah. You know who's done a video about freezes.
+
+[25:56] Oh, who's that? Next week, yeah. Yeah. Chris Young, yeah, coming on. Finally get finally coming on after all this time.
+
+[26:04] Do you have these uh combustion engineering thermometer? Oh, what now? Is his have you seen his thermometer? I don't I don't know that I have. All right, I'll give you the spiel.
+
+[26:12] Okay. Tune in next week. Tune in next week. But first, hey, Stas. Monday, Monday, Monday, Monday.
+
+[26:18] Monday at two. Monday. Uh so uh Stas, can they order the those freaking uh Sears all yet, by the way? The ones I was talking about earlier. I don't know.
+
+[26:28] I have to talk to Flexport. I I yeah. They are here. They are here. But we're selling them on on our website, right?
+
+[26:36] We're selling them just through our website. We're selling them on Amazon. But can we also sell them through our website because I hate Amazon? That is a question for Flexport, yeah. I will figure it out.
+
+[26:48] You should be able to say Amazon. If they were all there in two weeks, Glenn. Somebody from Canada is gonna order one. And then they're gonna be like, You didn't tell me I had your paid event. And then they're gonna ask for a refund.
+
+[27:04] And then we're gonna get completely hosed, and then Amazon's gonna take it back and chum it up. And then that's one less of the only a couple that we have. You know what I mean? So it's like Amazon can anyway. So Chris's thermometer is uh it's a multi, it's a multi point thermometer, right?
+
+[27:25] So it's like multiple probes? Correct. Okay. And uh and it, you know, it's got a little, you know, multiple multiple sensors in one probe. Uh-huh.
+
+[27:34] Okay. And so it's got uh and it's you know, you charge it uh vi you know via USB, you know, non contact via USB. Okay. And then magnetic or something? Yeah, and then you shove the probe into whatever.
+
+[27:47] You don't have to hit the center. I mean, you're supposed to go through the center, right? Oh, past the center. Yeah. And then you there's a and then you just wait, and then it you can either do it on your phone or you can do it with uh the little readout thing, Bluetooth to it.
+
+[28:02] And you it it predicts when you you tell it what temperature you want, and then after it checks the curves uh of the you know the the thermal yeah ramp that it's at, it predicts when it's gonna be done. Oh, very cool. Yeah yeah and it works. Uh and also for other fun crap um it'll also act as a logger. You can get the data out if you want.
+
+[28:24] Nice on and it can trans it it has some kind of electronics that uh hold up to oven heat yeah inside of it to transmit. I mean that's the thing. So they the the trick the way to destroy one is is that uh all of the the brain is actually not in the head where you would think the brain is the brain is in the actual probe. And so you're not allowed to have the probe ah because so like the meat itself is insulating the probe from the ding ding ding ding ding ding ding wow yeah nice yeah yeah that's smart yeah that is smart smart but we're also gonna talk about Kareemis because so he had a you know which is the worst name for a product ever the ninja creamy I don't oh I was thinking creamy's like uh what they call soft serve in Vermont really maple creamies yeah weird yeah Vermont you know they don't have very many people they can do stuff like that uh so the creamy is like you know the Faco jet oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah patent ran out so yeah the Faco jet nice so it's like 300 Paco jet so Quinn's had one now for like a year and a half that's how long it's taken to get Chris on the show or a year or whatever it is. And then and but I wanted to have a year and a half.
+
+[29:36] Okay. I wanted to have Quinn and Chris talk about it because Chris has obviously a lot of experience with like the Paco jet and like Quinn's has you know his perspective from like writing his ice cream book but I feel like both perspectives are useful for people who want to know how does this thing hold up versus a Paco because you know I mean yeah and from everything I've heard from pros like you know you don't necessarily want to rely on the creamy in a restaurant in a service situation yeah of course not surprising but it's not like you wanted to rely on the Paco Jet either but oh my God who who who has had a Paco Jet has not had it break like literally nobody yeah yeah that's why like this why are friends with each other yeah exactly climb yeah no one can afford to get five creamy yeah I mean that's uh I asked that so like you know Leo Robochek opened up uh uh what's it called Pennyworth in Brooklyn right and he was waiting for his Paco to come in and I was like what about creamy and he was like yeah I was like but they are like you know six times less expensive but yeah I don't know I'm I'm reminded of uh the time when I was working at Noma and we when we added a bunch of like grilled stuff to the menu and bought a bunch of like big green eggs and uh ran them so hard they kept cracking. Yeah. So it was like yeah it's cheaper to buy a big green egg or five big green eggs than install the proper oven until you have to like keep replacing them. And then eventually we got I think a Jasper Osper grill grill oven thing and that never broke.
+
+[31:09] So yeah. Yeah you know what I I have to say I'm just not uh the green egg doesn't work the way I want it to work. Well I I I have limited experience grilling because I've always lived in apartments. I mean I can grill but I've seen you do it but yeah exactly we've we've grilled together but I I do not have one in my uh uh immediate surroundings yeah I wish I did but but like uh you know the the the the big green egg, all those Kamado style grills are built for people with patience. Right?
+
+[31:38] Because they're they you know they build up thermal mass and like you know you're like that you can hold them I was like no no you know what I mean? Like I want right exactly what I mean? Yeah well you've seen me grill over a fire like on the ground. Yeah, yeah. Hell yeah.
+
+[31:57] Yeah. At Nastasia's uh uh seaside resort. Yeah. Yeah. Well, not see uh what's that called?
+
+[32:04] Soundside. Yeah. Oh, speaking of which, that reminds me, I can I can plug my book because um there is a recipe for people in circumstances like mine where you're in a living situation where you cannot have an open fire and you want smoky taste. There's a uh smoke oil, so lap song suchong infused oil that you can then use to uh apply delicious smoky flavors to things by oil poaching them. I do I I do uh I do all of my uh quote unquote cold smoking with hickory smoke powder.
+
+[32:34] Nice or whatever, yeah, whatever smoke you choose. Choose your smoke. You can get whatever. They're pretty good. You know what the issue with them is?
+
+[32:40] I'm gonna shout out real quick. Um Will and Dave and the Patreon have both purchased flavorama. Um I'm watching it happen in real time. Nice. Um the thing about the uh powder is if you add a little bit too much, it just goes ah, great.
+
+[32:59] It's like oversmoking something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, why like talk about let's get to some flavor crap. Talk to me about why something case. I mean, obviously things are dose dependent, but like you you mentioned that you that uh in the salty section, you mentioned that there's uh both a sense of saltiness and oh yeah, well, so uh so that's more of a t a tape.
+
+[33:18] So flavor is taste and smell. That's uh chapter one, I believe, part one. Um so uh in the case of smokiness, we're mostly talking about smell and aroma. In the case of salt, we're talking about taste. But the aqua stuff is actually a is that a flavor or it's mostly it's a flavor in the sense that it's mostly smell based.
+
+[33:37] You can't you can get some, yeah, the acronym is. It's not bitter. It's not bitter. But you can eventually, yeah. So if it eventually becomes bitter, then the bitterness and probably some like trigeminal like astringency.
+
+[33:47] Trigeminal being like the sense of touch that we use for flavor, um, including spiciness. Uh but uh yeah, I mean, so if you've ever like tasted something that was properly salted and then way over salted and it almost felt like burny. Um yeah, we have a uh, you know, a regular, a regular salty receptor that's activated in a certain range, but then like over a certain amount, there are uh I think I think we used to believe it was one dedicated receptor, but it probably is something else. We're not totally sure. Um a second signal of too much salt.
+
+[34:22] Uh so you know, I mean we have we can taste salt to begin with because we need to like take in a certain amount of sodium in our diets so that we don't, you know, uh uh lose our osmotic balance and die. Um but then too much salt is also bad. So it's kind of this uh yeah, like uh belt and suspenders thing of like, yes, make sure you eat salt, but no, not that much. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[34:43] Yeah. But then with um, yeah, I mean, especially with smell molecules, so things like you know, going from nice smoky to too smoky. Um, yeah, th so like the the obviously like if you have more of a smell molecule, it smells stronger. Um, but you'll also get a situation where the quality of the flavor or smell can change. Um I mean, I either because like your brain gets like the much higher signal and it's like, wow, this is not so great, or at a much higher concentration, your smell, the smell molecule is like activating other receptors that usually don't respond to it unless it activates it a lot.
+
+[35:23] And so like there's um I don't know, there's like uh certain aldehydes, uh two methyl butanol, three methyl butanol, that in like lower concentrations smell kind of like chocolatey, multi, a little bit like a funyon, and um and high concentrations smell like intensely of cheese. Uh I like both of those things. Which I know because I have spilled it on myself and uh uh smelled like cheese for about two weeks. What kind of cheese though? Uh there's so many cheese, like which one of the cheesy kind of like cheddar cheese powder that kind of like not the not the like butyric acid cheesy cheesy note, but like a the kind of like almost like I don't know, h higher and sharper uh cheese note.
+
+[36:08] But not like a not like a moldy, not like a blue cheesy note. No, no, no, not so much. No. Yeah. Like if you get parmesan juice on your hands, that doesn't come up very often.
+
+[36:18] I don't juice wheels of Parmesan very often. You leave a piece of parmesan out and it starts sweating and you get the sweat on your hands and you're like, oh god, yeah, like that smell. I mean, I juice a lot. Right, right. Parmesan cultured cream and turned into butter.
+
+[36:33] Yeah, I bet. Uh by the way, Ariel was the person who, when I made the dirt martini, came back with the math and said that I had uh I would say it's what is six orders of magnitude over threshold? Yeah, I believe so, yeah. Yeah, a million times more higher than the odor threshold for Josmine. Yeah, Osmond, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[36:58] So I mean, so like you you did do cereal dilution in the sense that you made a 1% solution and took a tiny amount of that, but I think you'd have to do it a couple more steps. About it. About it at one. Uh-huh. Yeah.
+
+[37:12] Yeah. Uh it's just nasty. You know what though? I don't ever want that flavor. I know everyone likes it, so a lot of people like it.
+
+[37:18] I don't want it. The the and and to be for for those who didn't see this episode or uh hear about this situation. Josmin is the like characteristic smell of dirt. Uh it's also the the the dirt flavor of beets. So um yeah, intense intense dirt.
+
+[37:35] Uh like when catfish are not good. Yes. Yeah. So it's often like produced as like a bacterial metabolite. So if like fish are eating a lot of like fresh water mud that has, yeah, like bacteria in it.
+
+[37:49] As those freshwater trash fish do. Exactly. Yeah. They can taste clean. Yeah.
+
+[37:54] Yeah. It depends on a lot of things. Does anyone want my I keep on trying to give away my bottle of Jasmine because like I'll take it. Really? And I wish I'd known beforehand.
+
+[38:05] Because Dax is gonna come home from college soon and he will break any flavor molecule bottle, and then the whole house will but we'll never get it out. Yeah, no, you won't. So yeah, you should uh you know I mean you can you can get like break resistant bottles that maybe you could decant it into, but I yeah, I don't think I have any Josmin right now. So if you if you haven't at all uh take it. Hell yeah.
+
+[38:28] Yeah. Hey, do you know what uh uh see, ever told you that I have all these lye problems, so many lie problems? I I've seen photos of your tongue after you uh was like, what's this white powder? Oh, it's a kitchen, so I'll check by sticking it on my tongue. And you burned your tongue.
+
+[38:44] Yeah. Even even I have to give her props on this. It was bad enough that Nastasia actually felt bad for me. You know what I mean? That's how bad it was.
+
+[38:55] What's that say it again? I had to call your white. That was horrible. That does sound kind of scary. Yeah.
+
+[39:03] Anyway, uh so uh other lie problems. So my current my current lie problems that as you know, lie is like super like hygroscopic, right? So like and so I and it was doing all these titrations for the book. Oh, and you didn't make up your sodium hydroxide solution fresh every time. Well, so I looked at the stuff.
+
+[39:23] It was a you know, it had agglomerated into like a giant kind of ball of lye. And I was like, this is trash. You know what I mean? So like I threw it out. I diluted the hell out of it and threw it out.
+
+[39:34] Sure. And then uh I ordered a fresh pound. Yeah, uh, you know, kilo or whatever. So then I'm trying to make because like I had like the lie before and like everyone got mad at me, so uh I tried to make a solution that I thought would be safe to store, but still not such that I had like five gallon buckets of lye sitting around, right? So Well what actually happened well, sorry.
+
+[39:57] No, so I made a bunch of lye like accurately. Yeah, like accurately made it as soon as I got it, right? And sealed it so that like they wouldn't they wouldn't change. Turns out, you know what? Lie will eventually make it through low density polyethylene.
+
+[40:10] Like did it eat through the Yes. Oh so I had all I bought all of these juice jars, you know, juice like plastic juice suckers with the with the LDPE tops and the and the clear ones that you get, like, you know, like you buy Whole Foods. And I had these concentrated, you know, relatively concentrated solutions. I had my actual, you know, the base that I was using, which is I think is like 0.27 molau. You know what I mean?
+
+[40:35] Because I'm giving I'm doing uh density based crap, not volumetric nitration. Anywho, so boom one leaks out and destroys my you know 80 year old can of lard. So I lost my lye and my lard and I got in trouble. So then I did you make soap out of it at least. No that's the thing.
+
+[40:52] And so then I had like another one I had a I put into a milk jug. Uh-huh an actual milk jug, gallon milk jug. I stuck it inside a cambro and just yesterday or not yesterday, two days ago, I looked at it and it had blasted out and my entire camber is then filled with the lye stuff. So did you know that like these LD LDPE crafts were not okay for lying. I've always stored it in glass so who's gonna have all this glass around and then Dax is gonna break it.
+
+[41:18] Right. But like I mean technically if if we're if we're like adhering to lab safety uh it should be stored like in glass or I mean there might be some kind of plastic that I'd have to look up that is like rated as non-reactive but like probably glass and then like in its own kind of special metal cabinet. I bet you if I gotten like actual Nal gene which is I think polypropylene right it probably would I don't know but like I don't know. I mean like like I I should know this because I am a chemist but uh the there's lots of stuff where it's just like oh yeah we just do it this way and that's storing it in glass. Well people don't store your lye in bunk.
+
+[41:56] Well and the other reason that we make up sodium hydroxide solutions fresh for titration is uh they can actually like absorb trace amounts of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere that then like you know dissolve in the water, form carbonic acid, and like neutralize parts of the lye. Yeah, but I can't do it because I have no way to store lye the solid without it picking up. I don't have desiccators and all this other stuff. Do you have like a like packets of desiccant you can throw in the I was told, I don't know, you're you're the expert, but I was told that the lye it the lye will suck the water out of a desiccant pack. That you have to use some hardcore desiccants.
+
+[42:40] That I'm not sure about. Anyway, it sucks. The whole thing sucks. What I'm gonna recommend anyone who's gotta do titrations is just buy the solution you need made at a very accurate thing by a lab supply thing, even though it costs more. If you're doing it at home.
+
+[42:53] That's probably wise. Yeah for those of you doing titrations at home. Yeah. Don't build oh, did I tell you? I got like a really good pH meter.
+
+[43:02] They I think they got the price off by like a factor of five. Amazing. Yeah, I got you know, the a bench top one with the with the thing for like a hundred and twenty dollars. Oh god, can you send me? Do you still have the link?
+
+[43:13] I bought the instantly after I bought it, they took it offline and put it back up. For like $800. Yeah. I have I have a terrible habit of like letting pH probes dry out. Yeah, it's bad habit.
+
+[43:25] And then having to buy a new one. It is bad habit. Yeah. Yeah. Shame on me.
+
+[43:28] Yeah. Hey, question for you. Yes. Infusion question. Uh huh.
+
+[43:32] Ready for it? Yes. Okay. So uh I'm redoing the infusion chapter, obviously, because I'm doing all the chapters. And so I was like, you know what?
+
+[43:40] I'm gonna include, I'm gonna include uh not how to do it, but just like socks slit. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And so then I've been thinking, like, but like, why would you so for those of you that don't know, the way sox lit works, so or maybe you want to say what a success.
+
+[43:55] Yeah, so a soxlet extraction is a is a solvent extraction. So you're, you know, taking something like hexane, uh, although probably at home you're not doing hexane, you're using alcohol. Um in the lab would use hexane. And uh uh taking taking the a sample of something that you want to extract, mixing it with the with the solvents, uh letting um letting it kind of like filter off of the solids into like a little container that catches it, then you like distill the solvent out of that and like funnel it back through the uh the original sample material. So the idea is that you do this multiple times so that each time you're pulling out, you know, more and more of the uh the remaining stuff in the sample.
+
+[44:36] Right, because the solvent's always fresh. Yes. And the kinetics of the of uh uh is that the the bigger the gradient thermo dynamics. Yeah, yeah, the bigger the bigger the gradient you have, concentration gradient between what's in the solvent and what's in the product, the faster your Yeah. Well, there's also there's also like partition coefficients, so like the the the amount to which like an or an organic molecule will partition between alcohol or well, not alcohol and water because they mix, but like octanol and water is usually what we compare, um is dependent on uh so like g at a given concentration, there's like a maximum concentration you can have in like the solvent and in the sample.
+
+[45:15] So then if you take the solvent off and add fresh solvent. You're at you're at the zero point. So you can, yeah, yeah. So that's take advantage of that partitioning. That's the principle.
+
+[45:23] So that the only reason to do it is because you want to extract more. There's two reasons, I guess. You it's somewhat faster than just letting it sit around because it's with heat, but it if you want to extract more stuff or different stuff, then you could doing a normal infusion. So one thing when you do alcohol, right, is that you're you're infusing with something that's a lot closer to like 70, 80%. If you're starting with 40, right?
+
+[45:51] You're infusing with uh a distillate of that. It's not illegal because you're not actually separating them because it goes all back into the same thing. But you're infusing at a much higher alcohol point, and it is a uh and it's and it's warm at at the same time. So I was trying to think of what is actually a good application where it's gonna give a different example. The only one I've done so far is really allow where I've done coffee, which is interesting because the temperature of it is not at the burning coffee temperature, and it's with alcohol and not with water, so it's different.
+
+[46:21] And so I ran a soxlet for like two, three hours, like you know, 10-15 cycles on on uh coffee. And I got an interesting coffee bitters. Okay. Well, um, you said you're using like 80-proof alcohol or using like EverClear? 80.
+
+[46:35] Okay, because it'll work better with EverClear. Yeah, but the well, the thing is remember the stuff that's coming off the distillation is like I guess so I say that because like the more water you have in any kind of flavorful thing that you're boiling, the more volatiles are gonna get like driven off when you boil it. So so like dis distillation, like the reason you get like flavors when you're distilling alcohol is less that you're like at the boiling point of basically any flavor molecules, because you're like usually well below that. Um, but because f like smell molecules repel water, um they uh like go up into the the head space of the still with the alcohol. So it's like the same kind of the same feature as when you add spring water to your scotch and release some of the aromas.
+
+[47:21] So like you'll have less, fewer like flavor molecules traveling with the alcohol as you distill it if you use a higher higher proof alcohol. Yeah, I wasn't getting a lot of loss, thankfully. Okay. Because I couldn't smell it. Kind of.
+
+[47:37] I mean, I mean, you know. The wattage on the heater is so low that, you know, the tap water is aggressively more powerful as a chiller. You know what I mean? So I couldn't smell coffee until I broke the thing open. Interesting.
+
+[47:52] Um, wait, so like what else would be good to test though? Well, I mean I was gonna do pure alcohol and mint, because that's interesting. Yeah. I mean what about tea? I could try tea.
+
+[48:06] So like the thing with with a soxalate, what you get that's different than if you were like distilling it, like distilling usually leaves the taste molecules behind. But since like soxlets fundamentally a, you know, solvent contact extraction, you're gonna get all of those too. Right. So anything like tannic or bitter is gonna end up. But the well, the question is right, what is there that you want the you want to extract more than you could with a normal steep.
+
+[48:34] Right. Interesting. I could try tea. The issue with high alcohol and tea actually is that uh a lot of those polyphenols don't come out of tea as well and super high alcohol, right? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[48:43] A lot of them are like uh reasonably polar. Yeah. You know what's weird? I got bum quasia. This is a separate subject.
+
+[48:51] Okay. So like, you know, okay, so quasia, qua quasin, right, which is the quasinoids, whatever they're called, which is their, you know, the the bitter crap in in quasia. Uh is, you know, everyone points to it as being like the the purest bitters. Okay. You know what I mean?
+
+[49:09] Like, like as opposed to like, you know, uh wormwood, let's say, or gention. Okay. Right. And so I did like all of these water-based as a test, water and then ethanol, right? And wormwood is crazy bitter, even with a water extraction.
+
+[49:23] Crazy bitter. Genshin, crazy bitter with a water extraction. Quinine, crazy bitter with a water extra extraction. Quasia is not the quasin, not very water soluble. I looked it up, like almost insoluble.
+
+[49:36] But I wasn't able to get anything out of these things, even in a pure ethanol. Nothing. It's like and then I started chewing on the wood. Nothing. Have you ever had a bum quasia?
+
+[49:45] I I mean I have not, but you probably bought more batches of quasia than than I have. Or did I blast myself and I can't taste it anymore? I I that's not really how bitterness works. I blasted myself on, I've blasted myself on aromamolecules. I couldn't sm I couldn't smell or taste um methylanthranylate for like six months once.
+
+[50:06] Oh, you like threw off your baseline threshold? Well I put it in my mouth. Uh-huh. I blew through it. I blew through a uh a flavor tube that was pure methylanthranolate and it blasted me.
+
+[50:19] I I was like, I couldn't crazy. Yeah. Crazy. My brain was like, no, thank you. Yeah.
+
+[50:25] And you know interesting. It's one of my favorite fake flavors. Yeah. It's uh well, I mean, it's also a delicious real flavor in uh conquered grapes and yeah, but I even like the one note Nancy. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[50:36] You know what I mean? Yeah, no, I feel you. All right, let's get some questions. Let's get some questions. Did you which wait?
+
+[50:40] So you wait, this is the one you're interested in? Uh I mean, I can weigh in on any of the ones that I oh yeah, the the mousey one. I can talk about that. From Alexander, uh I got a bit of a general question that might fit when Andre Mack is on, but might also be better for someone like Harold McGain. Look, we got someone who is like both in the spirits world and in the science world.
+
+[50:59] So Alexander, you won. You know, you're not having a no good, horrible, very bad day. Uh I'm trying to understand the fault known as mousey in wine, mostly related to natural wines, where after opening, sometimes before they quickly develop some truly awful flavors, often described as puke. For me, it comes out as very bready in a rye bread type of way. Uh as in where does it come from and why does it happen?
+
+[51:20] And how do some winemakers avoid it uh completely without uh using sulfites? As far as I understand, it's not well understood other than being related to acid conversion. I read somewhere about wines with up to 80 parts per million of sulfites developing the mouse. Uh uh okay. And to add to this, I work at a bar or restaurant where he's made some strange uh discoveries, etc.
+
+[51:40] So what do you got? Well, so I uh in terms of it not being well understood, I can I can fill that in. Um so the fault that we know is mousiness in wine. So sometimes when you taste a wine, I guess it tastes like a wet mouse. Um that comes from uh like wild lactic acid bacteria uh fermenting along with uh you know the the yeast and other things that you intend to ferment.
+
+[52:05] And uh it creates a molecule called two acetylpyruline. Um so that is the that is the smell of mouse in wine. Interestingly, um, and kind of hearkening back to our uh our our earlier conversation about um different different smell molecules changing in quality depending on concentration. Um they'll also change in quality depending on like what you smell them with. So two acetylpyruline is also in basmati rice tortillas and pandan leaves.
+
+[52:32] And uh it's it's not the it's not the tortilla dog foot. It is the tortilla dog foot. Yeah. So uh the tortilla, well, the tortilla tortilla smell. If your dog's feet ever smell like tortillas, it's because of two acetylpuruline it's probably some kind of skin lactic acid bacteria I don't know I'm just extrapolating um but yeah it's also the smell of basmati rice and uh the the flavor of pandan so in a in a non-wine context it's it smells nice and toasty I like all those things I like dog feed I like tortillas I like basmati rice but but in wine um with that uh you know that context it is unpleasant um so it's uh two acetylpuruline it it's a nitrogen containing volatile so um you know one we are we tend to be more sensitive to like a lot of nitrogen and sulfur smell molecules comparatively to other things so we can smell them at like very low concentrations um but nitrogen in particular is sensitive to acidity so like uh uh a a nitrogen atom in a in a smell molecule is uh very happy to become positively charged um so it takes on a hydrogen ion uh so in an acidic situation like w where a normal smell molecule like won't interact with the acid that much like a weak acid um a nitrogen containing molecule will will react will become ionized and therefore not volatile well this is interesting because uh so you won't be able to smell it anymore wait when you add acid you won't be able to smell anymore because they had a situation where they had two ferments and every time they add hibiscus to the ferment they get the milestone well when you add acid you'll be able to smell it less so I think it develops it right after the acid discus yeah well, I mean, what is what uh you know, sort of wild bacteria could be on the hibiscus I don't know yeah.
+
+[54:26] I don't know. Um it's kind of like uh the like a a lot of well, for example, serving lemon with fish um uh doesn't just cover up, you know, uh various various fish-like flavors uh with lemoniness, it actually like acidifies some of them, like the trimethyl amine that smells like the fishy smell and makes them unsmellable. Unsmellable acid, acid and nitrogen molecules that changes the flavor. That was not my nickname. Uh Balloon Knott uh said, question for the show.
+
+[54:58] I noticed uh Uba forming on the surface of hot soy milk in a sealed mason jar at 80 degrees Celsius in a s with a small airspace, 100% humidity. I thought Ubaformation was from evaporation at the surface. How does Yuba tofu skin form? I would, if I were you, uh uh balloon, go to um, and I can't get my phone to stop turning. I would go to the mechanism for ubiformation by uh Yeming Chen 2010.
+
+[55:22] And also uh productivity properties of protein lipid films uh prepared dot dot dot dot by Kun Chen in 2009, where they go into it. And while dehydration is important, uh you just need, I think, an air, an air liquid interface because it's about fats which are gonna migrate towards the surface interacting with the proteins. So I think long heat over long time can also polymerize them, but I think it's accelerated by evaporation. Does that seem like it makes sense? Yes.
+
+[55:50] All right. Well, yeah, evaporation, but you also want like protein denaturation, which is fundamentally unfolding. And since most of protein folding is driven by interactions with water. If you're adding stuff that's not water, for example, fat to the situation or air, um, then uh then the proteins are gonna fold differently. Yeah, so it always forms at the interface, and I like I say, I think dehydration's gonna help it, but that interface still exists whether or not you have evaporation, air air, air liquid interface at where the fat's gonna wanna because the fat would rather touch the air than the freaking water.
+
+[56:25] Exactly. Well, the the the fat wanting to touch the air rather than the water is how whipped cream whips. That's how the foam is stabilized. The the fat molecules stick out into the air. Um I think you mean delicious whipped cream.
+
+[56:37] Yeah, exactly. And uh uh Yeah, similarly with egg whites, when you when you whip egg whites, the the kind of greasy parts of the proteins would rather stick out into the air than uh into the water to make a foam. Let's get this. Bruce bring you maybe you have an answer for this, because I don't. Bruce, Bruce Blingstein.
+
+[56:54] I don't know why that's a tongue twister for me. I should be able to say it. Bruce Blingstein. Bruce Bruce Blingstein. It's a lot of it's a lot of like moving parts of your mouth in different directions very fast.
+
+[57:04] Yeah. I have I have a Sean Brock recipe for columf potatoes. Uh the first step is to brine the potatoes in sugar salt solution for six hours. Can't find anything that points to what exactly that does to the potato. Anything other than the fact that you're gonna dehydrate it?
+
+[57:15] Oh, you're gonna like it and flavor it. Yeah. Um just gonna dehydrate it and flavor it. I think so. I mean, I know like potato starches often have like phosphorus mol or like phosphates attached to them, but I don't think sugar or salt is gonna do much with that.
+
+[57:31] No, yeah, I mean like they're pretty porous. So I'm assuming you will pull some of the liquid out of the potato because it's hypertonic. And I would assume that it's also gonna get those flavors into the potato. Yeah. Both of those things are.
+
+[57:46] So you'll have like a less watery. Although, you know, or whatever. Listen, don't waste six hours. Get a vacuum machine. Just do it now.
+
+[57:52] Just do it now. You know what I mean? Not later. Now. Um.
+
+[57:57] Oh, by the way, I did the uh my but do you ever hear me go on and on and on and on about Guardian service wear? I don't think so. So it's this LA man they're not anymore, but like starting in the 30s, LA manufacturer of uh of uh aluminum, heavy-duty aluminum cookware, okay? One of the early waterless cookers. And so you just put potatoes into it and put the lid on and put it on your stove and cook it with no water.
+
+[58:21] Oh. And you know what? It doesn't burn, but it gets kind of brown. It doesn't it gets kind of brown. So when you make mashed potatoes, it's kind of like toasted mashed potatoes.
+
+[58:30] Is it good? Yeah. Uh huh. Yeah. Uh do you have any uh tricks for cooking goose?
+
+[58:35] Lord Nabu wants to know. I think you would know better than me. You know what my trick for cooking goose is is to get a duck instead. But I've only done goose once. Yeah, I'm gonna think about it and I'm gonna try to get a good goose.
+
+[58:44] I think most goose is terrible, but maybe it's better now. John, do you have anything? Frenchophile? No. I'm gonna work on this.
+
+[58:50] I'm gonna work on this. Um Christian wrote in, hey, I'm looking for an alcoholic holiday beverage that is both delicious and highly drinkable, as uh in one person would be happy to consume multiple. Would love some of your favorite recommendations. Anyone? Anyone?
+
+[59:03] Favorite holiday? I like Danish style glug. Ooh, I like Swedish style glue, so we can have a fight about that later. Yeah, I've never had a lot of things. What's the difference?
+
+[59:11] It's probably the same. I don't know. Does the Swedish style have the like almonds and like mincemeat in it? I don't know. Nils never used to put that sweet.
+
+[59:19] But like sliced almonds and uh big basically like yeah, like candied glassed fruits in the bottom of it. Well, the trick with any of those things, right, is you you make it taste all good, then when you heat it up, you always have to have a little alcohol left to go chag it a chagada because you're gonna evaporate over the time that you keep it hot. It's all about the chagged a chagging it. Do they use Aka Vietnam in uh Dameland? No, no, no.
+
+[59:39] Just one. Oh, you don't spike it? Uh Nils used to spike the hell out of it. You might use like rum, but I don't think you mix aqua beat and red wine, at least in Denmark. Okay.
+
+[59:50] And they love rules about food. So then uh on the way out, we have two seconds. But here, Sam Erickson wants to know uh, do you have any tips for extracting caraway, dill, star anise, or other aqua flavors without alcohol to create a non-alcoholic awkvite in the vein of linny, just for family and friends. Both acetic acid, so vinegar and sugar will help uh increase the extractability of aroma molecules. But then you're gonna have a lot of vinegar in your own.
+
+[1:00:14] Well, so you find like a amount that you can uh I don't I don't actually like I guess I mean if sugar does then glycerin must also because they have like you know basically the same polygolic. Yeah. Um I mean, but then I guess a a less sweet, a less sweet sugar, like a uh uh like trihalos or something like that. Three three uh trisaccharide. Yeah, I did a uh I also for the quasio that I told you I couldn't get to make.
+
+[1:00:43] I did a uh I did a uh glycerin extraction. Oh my god, so sweet. Oh my god, so sweet. I was like, oh yeah! Crazy because glycerin is so dang sweet.
+
+[1:00:54] Yeah, true, I guess. And like a 6040 glycerin water is like pretty visc, like pretty loose, so it's not like glycerin. Anyway, uh Ariel, thanks for coming on and sharing. Flavorama! Pre-order it now.
+
+[1:01:10] Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello, and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City. New Stan Studios joined as usual with John behind me. How are you doing, John? Doing great, thanks.
+
+[0:21] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Your restaurant uh temperance there in the uh in the holiday spirit.
+
+[0:26] Yeah, it's been very slow though, I'll say. Like Saturday was probably the slowest service I've ever had in my career working in restaurants. I wanted to gouge my eyeballs out. Yeah. And I think maybe people don't realize this who aren't in the industry.
+
+[0:38] Uh it's not just the money. We hate being bored. Yeah. You know? Uh the kitchen's clean, everything was prepped like there's nothing else to do.
+
+[0:46] Yeah, you know what they say. If you have time to lean, you you're gonna die. Yes. Uh rocking the panels, we have Joe Hazen. How you doing?
+
+[0:53] I'm doing very well, man. Good to see everyone. Packed house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh over there in California, we are we are hammerless.
+
+[1:00] We have no anastasia today because she's in transit. But I believe we have uh Mr. Molecules. Uh Jack, you there? Yes, I am.
+
+[1:07] What's good? How are you doing? Everything good? Yeah, yeah, you know, I'm getting ready to come east for the holidays. So you sound super stoked.
+
+[1:16] You sound just psyched and come out of it. You know, it's 60 degrees out here now. Do you know that the the magnolia? Yeah, the magnolias, I mean, it's windy and rainy, but the magnolia in my uh we're gonna have a terrible spring. So come now because our spring is hosed.
+
+[1:30] You know what I mean? Yeah, awesome. Yeah. Uh in the upper, upper left, left, left, we have uh Quinn. How you doing?
+
+[1:42] You have been fulfilled. Yeah, well, you know, you're uh you're you're jumping the gun. I gotta introduce him, but uh in the uh in the studio today, we have, we're very uh psyched to have after what a year and a half we've been trying to get you on the show? About that, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[1:54] So Chris Young. Chris Young, everybody. Uh, you know, X everything. We'll talk about it in a minute. But the original idea, Chris, uh, you say hello.
+
+[2:02] Hello, good to be here, Dave. Yeah, was to have you on to talk about the uh the creamy because you did an early first look at the code. Yeah, the creamy ninja creamy review, first look at that, right. And let me ask you this before we go into the so normally we're just gonna shoot the breeze for a little while about non-related stuff. But could you imagine a worse product name than creamy?
+
+[2:24] You'd have to work at it, I think. Yeah. Yeah. It ranks right up there with the Ford probe. It makes me slightly uncomfortable.
+
+[2:30] And the number of times I had to say that word in the YouTube video, yeah was was awkward. I felt like I needed to be on some kind of registry after saying it that many times. You should like hire someone with a really smooth voice to just be like creamy. Like the entire time. Creamy.
+
+[2:45] Back to the probe. You know, that they literally, literally, this was, and for people who aren't old enough, that was a Ford, mm the the probe. And literally one of the commercials was like some exec saying, nothing's hotter than a hot new probe. And I was like, Whoa. Whoa, dude.
+
+[3:02] That was a formative childhood experience for you. Yeah, you gotta chill, you gotta chill on that on that probe talk, my man. Same with the creamy, gross. Uh it it's it's unpleasant. Yeah.
+
+[3:11] It's not a nice word in the English language. No, I mean, like you can use it to describe like uh a soup or something, but not like as a standalone thing. I I mean, I kind of get what they're gonna do. This thing's for making ice cream. I mean, it does other things, of course, but yeah, so does the Paco Jet.
+
+[3:28] I sort of see the logic, but there's so many better words. Yeah. You know, th this was almost certainly a marketing agency that came up with this, right? Um not a very good one. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[3:38] By the way, for what it is, and we're gonna talk about it later, I'm sure ad nauseum. But we gotta get to other stuff first. But the so the creamy, for those of you that don't know what we're talking about, is the three $300? Uh I think it's uh $250, often on sale around $200, but I think $299 is the retail. Oh, yeah, but if you can get it for that's a substantial discount, $250, $200, that's a lot.
+
+[3:57] Yeah, no, and they they discount pretty regularly. I think I I looked because people ask me, I think I paid $200 when I bought it on Amazon. Right. So Paco Jet, who is the original person, these Swiss weasels who came up with this idea of, you know, well, they bought the they bought the idea from an inventor, right? Right, right.
+
+[4:12] But they they were the company. Yes. Yeah, yeah, that made this you know, where you feed a blade at a very measured rate into a completely frozen block and create ice cream texture. I mean new. That's the theory.
+
+[4:22] Yep. Yeah, of operation. Patton runs out. Yep. And Shark Ninja is like, our blender sucks.
+
+[4:28] Let's try to make this other thing. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. I'm not though. I hate that blender. I mean, it's not that I hate it, it's just I don't like it.
+
+[4:34] Let me put it to this way. When I see one and they're like, this is the blender you're using, I'm like, oh really. It's not a bad blender. It just doesn't do what I want to do. We need to come back to Shark Ninja after this because it I agree with you, and yet they have changed.
+
+[4:47] I have their vacuum cleaner I have one of their vacuum cleaners. I think it's product to product. I don't like is maybe the blender's better. Nothing irritates me. Don't isn't it?
+
+[4:55] Isn't theirs the blender where you have to put the picture down one specific way for the thing to work? I don't have their blender. So I I actually common. Oh, because why would I have a Vitamix? Um, you know, I don't need anything else, and and you know, that's what I've used in the restaurants.
+
+[5:07] And I and I have the old school Vitamix with just the knobs. Of course you do. Nobody needs a digital interface on your blender. Oh, no, no, no. And I don't want no, and I don't want my blender recognizing anything.
+
+[5:19] Don't recognize my picture. I know the picture I put on my blender has DRM. I know it. It's the one with a subscription. So like literally, I'm redoing the liquid intelligence, and I'm still, you know, even 10 years later, I'm like, get the Vitamix.
+
+[5:31] Yeah. I'm like, don't get the Blend Tech. It's a got a fine motor. I don't like the picture. I don't like the interface.
+
+[5:29] Like. The Blend Tech is a look, and the Pantheon, the blenders. The Blend Tech is a completely reasonable blender, optimized for the pro market, the smoothie market where they just want to just want somebody running programs. That's right. The Vitamix is the workhorse of kitchens.
+
+[5:49] And to be honest, wearing makes a completely reasonable one too. You could quibble. Okay. Everything else sucks. Yeah.
+
+[5:57] Well, so for instance, like uh uh I was using uh a vacuum blender, right? So like uh a vacuum blender. Yeah, yeah. As you do. Yeah, well, you know, so vacuum blending's the new thing among so what's cool to me is is that like a lot of new technology that is important to me, it actually comes by way of people who have health theories that I don't ascribe to.
+
+[6:17] Right. One of them is is that you know, oxidation is gonna kill all the vitamins in your in your food, and so you need to remove the oxygen from the blender, but it has other good benefits from a cook's perspective. I mean, yeah, not air ready in your mix. I I I I get the logic. Yeah.
+
+[6:33] So like I'm always looking for people who believe things that I don't believe who might make a piece of equipment that I would enjoy. So this company Void makes uh a picture that thankfully fits on my on my Vitamix, right? So I can use a vacuum pitcher on my Vitamix. Unfortunately, you have to swap the rubber. Oh, so you you basically pull a vacuum on it first and then blend.
+
+[6:51] That's right. It's really just a lid. Okay. And and a decent bearing. So like I've heard that the new Vitamix bearings are actually vacuum tight and that you can build your own lid.
+
+[7:01] I attempted it back at WD50 in the early aughts, and those bearings, especially after what Wiley was doing to those things, those bearings were not vacuum tight. And so you'd see oil and filth and and and getting sucked up. The bearing. You don't even need to explain what's going on. The bearing grease.
+
+[7:20] That's that's the secret sauce. Okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because it's half anchovy grease and half packing grease. Anyway, so like, point being like, uh, so I still, you know, I was right rewriting the thing, and I had to write in it, you know, that yeah, I still use just a Vitamix.
+
+[7:34] I wouldn't recommend any other blender. However, you have to be careful because even Vitamix now, they have all of these blenders with all these programs and all of these things where they recognize what picture you're using, and no. Two, two, three. No, and they've got and they've got reduced cost ones to hit a Costco target, right? Like the one in Costco is is cheaper because that's what you have to do to get into Costco, but it's not as good.
+
+[7:55] I haven't used it. But like uh It's castrated a little bit. The nice thing about uh the Vitamix, and here's the other thing I had to write about because like uh so the this company Void, I use their pitcher. They also sent me one of their bases, and it's powerful enough. That's not the thing.
+
+[8:09] No low end, no low end. People don't think about they're like they only look at the top end speed of a blender. But a good kitchen blender needs a decent mixing low end. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, I actually spent uh some time with an engineer at a company I won't name who engineers blenders, and he showed me the torture test for a blender, because it's the hardest thing on the motor, is really low speed grinding peanuts for hours and hours of it.
+
+[8:32] He's like, that will kill a blender faster than anything because the motor's not operating anywhere near its peak efficiency. Oh, yes, terrible. So it's getting overheated and you're putting it under a lot of load. This this actually bears talking about, and because I'll say this. If you actually talk to the Vitamix people or to whoever your blender person was, what they really want you to do is ramp the speed up to infinity as fast as possible and then flick it into full high.
+
+[8:56] Because it's actually most efficient at cooling itself when it's screaming like a demon. Because it's got to pull the the air through and it's using a fan blade attached to the same spindle so they don't have independent cooling. So yeah, that is what they want to do, which is why the low and slow. Yeah, worst. Yeah, all right.
+
+[9:11] Especially if it's bogging. If it's if it's super anytime it's bogging down, it's hurting. But if you're bogging it down at a lower speed, that's toast. Bogging, you're talking like air bubble cavitated blades or free spending. Oh no, no.
+
+[9:22] I mean like like literally like hogging into it, like like so like I used to do that with uh we used to uh back at the French Culinary Institute, we like we would do these events where we had hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people, and we they would be like, We're doing nut butter. I'm like, okay. And so like, you know, we just line up all the all the Vitamixes and boom, and we put them in hotel pans and just start pouring LN into the hotel pans to to like cool them as they were going because they would be popping like flies. Because there's a thermal, by the way. If you overheat your Vitamix, there's a thermal in it that cuts and comes back in.
+
+[9:54] But no one wants to wait around for their pre and blender to come back to life. You should obviously mod it with you know a GPU fan or something like that. Liquid cooled Vitamix. That's the thing we're gonna do. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[10:05] There's a huge market for it. Yeah, yeah. They're all three of us. Yeah. That's another thing.
+
+[10:09] People are like, why don't you build this? Because only three people want it. You know what I mean? Yeah. No, I I I I very much know what you mean.
+
+[10:15] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I need at least four people to want it. That's a that's uh that's a special market. Yeah.
+
+[10:22] Uh also, you know, Booker and Dax's motto is is that like uh we're just gonna make it a little bit better. We're gonna do a lot of work. We're gonna make it a little bit better. Anyway, like marginally better. That was the cocktail cue.
+
+[10:31] Remember that, John? Yep. Like makes every cocktail you make a little bit better. You could live without it. Marginal results, yeah.
+
+[10:37] Yeah, yeah. Margaret Razut's for for 10 times the price. Yes. Well, no, but the cocktail cube was actually pretty cheap. Like, you know, I use it, but like it's like a it's like a repeatable but marginal improvement.
+
+[10:44] That's my I don't know what this is. What is this? Oh, so like the like uh years ago, uh I've you know, I was it was brought to my attention, people said that you get better texture in a shaken cocktail when you use a a big like two and a quarter two inch ice cube instead of small stuff. And I was like, it's garbage. You know, I don't believe you.
+
+[11:07] And uh I ran the test and sure sure enough, it's true. But it's just the shape of the it's just having something big in the shaker makes the we don't I don't know why, but my theory is is that the it makes it um zip around in the tin and it like whips more air into it. So the little balls don't the little like like cat toys don't do anything. You just want a big object in there. And you also want it to weigh roughly what ice weighs, otherwise it's not gonna work, right?
+
+[11:34] It's not gonna feel right, it's not gonna work right. So I patented it. So now you can buy this. Well, you can't because I don't sell it anymore, but this fake ice cube that has the same weight, uh, you know, as the same density as ice. You can keep this in like the freezer and then throw it in, or no, it doesn't chill.
+
+[11:47] That's the other thing people don't understand. No, it's like you throw in crappy ice and this. So like the the reason it came about was because I was going to events and I would order in advance of the event big ice cubes so that I could shake with them. First of all, never do shaking drinks at an event. It's just dumb.
+
+[12:02] Uh, you know what I mean? It's just dumb. It's dumb. It's like it's like when you're doing cater. What's the worst thing to do at a catering?
+
+[12:07] What's the worst thing? Anything all a minute. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm doing I'm doing omelets at a catering event for a thousand. What are you dumb?
+
+[12:15] You know what I mean? Like, just don't choose that. You know what I mean? It's a shaking cocktails or similar kind of stitch, but so anyway, so I was like, the ice they're giving me is garbage, so I can't get the right texture. So I invented this thing so that I could just have something in my bag that would mimic the texture of good ice cube with the crappy ice they had it in.
+
+[12:31] Got it. Yeah. All of those things, like those things where you they chilling things don't work because you know, melting ice is amazing. You know, from a from a uh thermal transfer standpoint. It's just fancy.
+
+[12:45] Hard to beat. Yeah. Uh all right. So this is the section on the show, by the way, where we kind of almost skip past it where we does anyone have any interesting food uh food experiences or c or semi-related experiences of the week? Anything?
+
+[12:59] I went to Coloman the other weekend, which was very really excellent spot run by Marcus Glocker. I was there on Friday night and it was superb right delicious. I I am a fan of a of a solid schnitzel, and when somebody makes the point of calling it a a a a Viennese style, they know what they're doing. Yep, it was 100%. I highly recommend.
+
+[13:18] I also like a schnitzel. Yeah. Yeah. But do you like yours VN? Do you like yours puffed or not puffed?
+
+[13:24] Uh I like a little bit of puff, but the puff is the kind of crust lifting off, not well. So like first of all, like uh I'm huge I like like uh like standard, like kind of like bread/slash cracker crumb schnitzel stuff, not like any sort of modern or like tanko or yeah, no, no. Oh cod. Yeah. Tastes good.
+
+[13:43] Yeah. Not a shortcut. Not I'm in agreement. Uh and I have to say, um do you like are you guys purists on what it's fried in or no? No.
+
+[13:55] I don't think I'd go. I I don't think I'd go puris. I think that's an area where I'd I'd I'd probably use clarified butter, and I'm I might be tempted to throw a little pork fat in there. Clary butter is nice. Yeah.
+
+[14:05] Expensive. Nice. Yeah. But like uh I don't mind when a sh I like it uh I don't want my schnitzel shattering. I want just the right texture on the schnitzel breading.
+
+[14:18] But I love it. Big big fill your plate schnitzel. Yeah. Yeah. I think that would be my my one criticism.
+
+[14:24] It was a nice size portion, but I like sort of like the obscene. It's larger than your plate. Yeah. On a lemon to squeeze over it. Some nice muslin over the lemon.
+
+[14:31] Yeah. And I and a little bit of a little bit of lingenberry jam. Oh, you know, um, so like uh what kind of accompaniment? I really like like a Jaeger Schnitzel, like a little mushroom gravy with it. You like that stuff?
+
+[14:41] Uh yeah, I can I can get on board with that. I think to me, I almost like. I like a little potato salad. I like the the German cucumber salad. But you know, I lived in Germany as an exchange student, so that's that that's kind of a nostalgia thing for me.
+
+[14:53] Schnitzel. Yeah. Dave, this place also was the place I text you to that had the full portfolio of those O de V's. Oh, the uh stuff. Oh, yeah.
+
+[15:00] Oh my name just went out of my head. I can't remember his name. Oh, gosh. He he sells through Skarnik. Yes.
+
+[15:06] I like a little horseradish with mine. Yeah? Mm-hmm. You know who I like. Fresh grated or creamed?
+
+[15:11] I like the cream, the Austrian style. Do you know that I raised a son who doesn't like horseradish? The hell's wrong with me. I was gonna say, where did you go wrong in life? Many places, Chris.
+
+[15:20] Hans Ristabauer. Ah, Rista Bauer, yeah, good products. Yeah, you're like Carado de V, who needs Carodie. Turns out you do. Yep.
+
+[15:28] Turns out it's you. Uh Jack, you had some. What do you got? Uh yeah, Doz and I went to this Korean place called Liga that does um like oxbone soup. It was very, very, very good.
+
+[15:42] So anybody in the LA area, uh highly recommend that. What was it called again? I'm a West Coaster, so I need to know. Oh, oh, Liga. Liga.
+
+[15:52] L-L-E-E-G-A. Yeah, Liga. Fantastic. What part of town is that in? Uh three, damn.
+
+[15:59] Okay. All right. Always always like to have another option there. Can't get into parks anymore. Yeah, no, truly.
+
+[16:06] Did I do anything? I made another acid adjust uh we gotta come up with a term for these fake key lime pies, these non-key lime key lime pies. But I made another one. Cranberry this time. Real good.
+
+[16:18] Real good. I cheated. I added a little bit of red food coloring. Does that make me terrible person or a smart person? Well, you were you were gonna do that with the uh with the pomegranate too, weren't you?
+
+[16:29] Yeah, pomegranate came out gray. Nobody wants gray. Came out gray. Well, like I was just using pomegranate. So the theory of operation here is you adjust the juice.
+
+[16:39] You don't use lime juice at all, and you adjust the acidity of whatever juice you use up to key lime, which is not six, it's closer to seven. And then you would uh account for any extra sugar. Pomegranate has a bunch of sugar, cranberry doesn't, has some, but not as much pomegranate. And so then you make your key lime pie that way. So usually when I'm doing it, I go like you know how so per can of sweetened condensed milk, like a lot of key lime pie recipes are a two-yoke recipe.
+
+[17:07] I prefer a three-yolk recipe because it allows me to still get a good set when I use a little more juice, if that makes sense. Because especially if you have something like pomegranate that has more sugar in it, if you want to add the same amount of actual juice and then sugar, you're adding more sugar to it, so you need to add even more acid. So I like a little extra yolk in there. That's all I'm gonna say. I'm a three yolk fella.
+
+[17:29] All right. Yeah. Uh anyway, so I did cranberry this time. Real good. This is a great technique.
+
+[17:35] I forget who wrote in about it, but like they deserve some sort of medal or prize for best idea of the year. Because like I've done, I've done passion fruit, I've done pomegranate, I've done cranberry, and they all everyone loves it. One thing I'll say about this your standard key lime pie recipe, I guarantee you, whoever writes them is lying. I guarantee you, for if you look up Joe Stonecrab's recipe, there's no salt in the mix. You know they add salt.
+
+[18:00] You know they had salt. What kind of moron doesn't add salt? You know what I'm saying? I know some French chefs who would disagree, but you know. Like I said, what kind of moron doesn't add salt?
+
+[18:10] You know what I mean? You go there. No, but uh, well, you know, come on. The the French salt they're creme anglaise, they're not dumb. Yeah.
+
+[18:18] You know what I mean? That's one of those things that I think the that they're like, you know, we're not gonna tell them about the salt. We're just gonna add it. I'm I'm just not gonna get involved into an international incident here over salted, not salted. But you come away, would you make a pie filling without salt?
+
+[18:33] Personally, no. I like I like some salt. Yes, of course. Uh, because that's the way it's my kidneys work. Yeah, it's intended to do that.
+
+[18:40] I mean, if you can't have the salt, great, fine. You know what I mean? Yeah. Uh, but you know, come on, dude. Also, like graham cracker crust needs a little salt.
+
+[18:48] Uh, you know, if you use unsalted butter, which everyone says you should. But I don't. I've switched to salted butter. They do. It's better.
+
+[18:57] Hey, guess what, people? They add the right amount of salt to the butter. It's delicious. It tastes really good. Here's another secret.
+
+[19:05] Just buy fresh salted butter. Everyone's like, oh, salted butter, salt is there to you know, hide the spoilage. No, I don't buy spoiled butter. I just buy good salted butter. Suck it.
+
+[19:14] You know what I mean? Uh look, y y you've somehow convinced a very large fraction of the American population that salt is an an evil. You know, and and we will eventually recover from this in the way we're sort of coming back from hey, maybe this low fat wasn't such a good idea, but you know, it'll take twenty years. Yeah. Salt.
+
+[19:32] Well, some people can't have salt. Yeah, but that's like two percent of the population. And they shouldn't. Right. But if if you're that person, you know it.
+
+[19:39] So don't eat salt. You should know, you would hope. Uh you would hope for their sake that they do. Uh anyways. So uh the other thing I did that cheated was I did add some citrus zest to it, even though it was not a citrus pie.
+
+[19:53] I added some zest. It's being fancy that way. I love zest. It's a little little green zest. You know, contrast nicely with the uh the the red.
+
+[20:00] It's it's very Christmas of you, very festive. I uh oh my god, I go through so much zest when I do Christmas cookies. So much zest. It's like I'm just like microplanting, like I don't I don't need I don't eat this many oranges and lemons normally. I don't know what I'm gonna do.
+
+[20:12] I want to believe your apartment's like filled with citrus trees and you know that's your other hobby. Don't I wish? Imagine your hand pollinating the flowers every winter. I would have to have only grow lights because we live on the fourth floor in a 20-story building, and we get about as much light as we get here in the studio. You know what I mean?
+
+[20:30] So like uh you know who used to grow like uh hot house uh citrus is uh Alex and Aki. I don't know if they still do it, but they had like a bunch of Yuzu and I think some Sudachi trees that they would bring in and out. This is like in Pennsylvania, right? Yeah. Yeah, there's they have they have like they're landed gentry.
+
+[20:46] Yeah. Yeah, nice. Must be nice. Must be nice. Yeah.
+
+[20:51] Well, you live in Seattle, and Seattle is like like uh you could grow genius like small fruit and plums and whatnot. Your plums in Seattle, like on the street, street plums are good in Seattle. No, we have we have we have great fruit in Washington State. It's you know, it makes up for a lot. There's other things that are not so great, but the fruit is good.
+
+[21:09] Uh tomatoes, I mean, yeah. Okay, there's always somebody who's like, Oh, I grow perfect tomatoes. Like, yeah, whatever. But they're tomato, no, they don't. Um corn, mediocre.
+
+[21:17] Uh, all right. You know, these these these are these are great things. But mushrooms and and fruit, we do that well. Oh, yeah, mushrooms. Although uh you ever met Paul Stametz?
+
+[21:26] No. No, me neither. Uh if uh it's not true. I did uh a lecture series he was doing once and said hello, he will not remember it. Um if you have any questions for Chris, call them in live to 917-4101507.
+
+[21:38] That's 917-4101507. If you're listening on Patreon, and if you're not listening on Patreon, how do you start listening on Patreon, John? Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Go check it out. There's a bunch of different levels of membership.
+
+[21:49] You get perks at uh all the levels. You get discounts like Kitchen Arts and Letters, discounts with other people that we work with. Um yeah, just uh just join access to the video feed, um Discord, just great stuff. So check it out. Patreon.com slash cooking issues.
+
+[22:04] Speaking of Patreon folk, uh, don't Patreon get uh discount from the Toronto Panetone Corporation? Yes, well, the people living in the Toronto the greater Toronto area for right now until he ramps up operations. But yeah, he sent us. No, no, he's got he does l local delivery for now. This is his first year like with his packaging and everything like that.
+
+[22:22] He's uh stepping up his operations. All right. So uh he has sent us this. Now I don't describe where uh Chris, you like Pantone? I do like Panatone.
+
+[22:29] Well, what about you, Joe? Love it. All right, so we're gonna taste this. This is the this is with the one that was sent specially to cooking issues. Do we have salted butter for it?
+
+[22:37] You butter your pants up. Let me ask you this. I've been known to to toast it and put a little salted butter on it. I don't mind toasted panatone. Yeah.
+
+[22:43] You know what uh I really like though for like kind of like toasting is uh the um slightly well, it's completely different product, but the the Pandoro? Yeah, yeah, they're good. They're good toasted. Do you like fried, like like pan fried pound cake as much as I do? I don't think I've ever pan-fried a pound cake.
+
+[23:03] Oh my gosh. We're talking like we're talking like proper Sara Lee pound cake, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But I am I am fairly confident I could get on board with that.
+
+[23:11] I think that's gonna be. Anything in that shape can be fried. Scrapple, pound cake. Oh, it smells delicious. That is a good looking pan at once.
+
+[23:19] So uh let me see it. Hold it up to the camera. We don't know where the camera is, so I don't know whether you're holding it up to it or not. I have no idea. Uh so what what flavor is this?
+
+[23:27] Uh it says classic on the bag. So classic. All right. Candied orange peel, raisins, white chocolate. Seem to be distinguishing things there.
+
+[23:40] All right. So why don't you cut this open while I talk to Chris about other stuff and then we'll we'll we'll taste that. But if you were a Patreon member, you could get a discount on that. But if you're not, you can, you know, you can go uh listen to us eat it. Yeah, yeah, listen to us eat it.
+
+[23:51] Yeah, we're gonna have some uh anti-ASMR uh eating stuff. Um although I'll say Chris, you we a friend of ours was on the air in the old network and came on and made so many mouth noises that uh one of our listeners threatened his life. Who is this? Uh Paul Adams from uh America's Test Kitchen. Yeah, he purposely made mouth noises, and so the the listener called him a sociopath and threatened his life.
+
+[24:20] Yeah. I mean, it seems like both of them have problems. Is there a pre existing incident between those two? I mean, I did not ask, although that's possible. I mean, I I kind of get it.
+
+[24:31] The mouth noises, but like it's a podcast. You can turn it off. I guess that's true. All right. Let's uh let's tear it.
+
+[24:37] You are in control of your life. Yeah, you you'll control you. All right, so listen. Uh I'm trying to figure out what order we're gonna do everything in while we're waiting. Oh, all right.
+
+[24:45] Well, we're gonna pass this down. We'll pass. So, Chris, let's do let's do your current business last. That way we can spend all the rest of the time on it. Sound good?
+
+[24:54] That's fine. Okay. Uh you want should we do a quick overview of uh Chris Young's life while we're you want to do that? You want me to do it? I don't know.
+
+[25:01] Do you want well it depends on how fast you want to Yeah, Blaze, Blaze, you want to blaze through or do you want me to tell you what you your life? Yeah, ask ask me a question. So I for I first met you when uh in the early uh early, early aughts when you were still at Fat Duck. Harold connected that. Yeah, Harold McGee.
+
+[25:16] So you were what was your title there? Research uh head development chef. Head development chef. And so, you know, like all those like, you know, famous like sounds of the sea and all that stuff, you were involved in all of that, McGill, right? Or you were around that time.
+
+[25:27] I was around that time, Kyle Conna uh Conaten, who now runs the amazing restaurant uh uh single thread, he was actually the lead on Sound of the Sea, but hot and cold tea. Oh, that yeah, famous one by the ones. Yeah, you know that Johnny Zini made me build a a special syringe to do a up down hot cold prep for him big based on that. I mean, it it doesn't surprise me that you would do that. And that you would do that kind of thing.
+
+[25:49] Well, you know, that was my job at the time. That's right. Um anyway, so then after you uh after you deduct, you unduct, you uh I don't know, I don't know if you anyone's heard of this cookbook. Uh Modernist Cuisine. It's uh door stop.
+
+[26:05] Have you heard of this thing? I'm familiar. I'm familiar with it. Yeah. So when uh Nathan said, I'm gonna do this, you were he, you know, he I think he approached you at the Fat Duck, right?
+
+[26:18] I'll do the I'll I'll do the quick run through here just to to make this easy. Yeah, so I was at the Fat Duck for five ish years, a little over, depending on exactly when I count, because I was involved in writing the book um after I left. But uh so yeah, did did the fat duck. Um and Nathan was a friend. We had a I was from Seattle.
+
+[26:36] Uh Nathan had been a guest of the fat duck. I remember I think I told him uh theory he was peddling on e-gull, it was a bunch of garbage, and we struck up a friendship. So I sent him a courtesy email when I was leaving the fat duck saying, Hey, new new new email address if you want to stay in touch going forward. And he sent me an email saying, Hey, crazy idea. Why don't you come write a book with me?
+
+[26:52] And like I had the hardship interview. I spent the weekend on his boat and you know, went to El Bui together. And we we basically put together the outline that became the that book. And I think the plan was it was gonna be a year, year and a half project. You know, five years later, high watermark.
+
+[27:05] I think we had 38 people working on that book. And so, you know, I did that. Question No matter how big your boat is, his boat's always a little bit bigger, am I right? It's a pretty big boat. So yeah, we'd be very nice.
+
+[27:16] Yeah. Were you on that boat with him when they were doing the I forget it was some stupid expensive wine in the blender? Um he did do it on that trip. I don't know if that was the first time, but yeah, no, he had um who was the winemaker? Um famous Spanish winemaker whose name is escaping me.
+
+[27:31] But you know, Nathan brought out the blender, brought out his wine, blended it, served it to him, and I just remember this winemaker getting on his phone and screaming in Spanish, blender, blender. You know, just uh thought it was the coolest thing. Um so yeah, that was that was I think the first time I saw that little party trick. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[27:47] Do you still believe that there is no difference that steam combi comfy with no fat is identical to fat comfy. I think you need to have fat on the surface of the meat. But if I steam it and have uh uh anointed in a layer of fat, I think that's largely I don't think you'd be able to pick out a difference in a triangle test. This is the kind of thing where you're gonna get people having violent reactions. But my answer is like, well, do a triangle test and and and settle it.
+
+[28:19] We did one uh for Modernist, and you know, nobody could pick up a difference. And you can sit there and say, well, your palate is shit and Nathan's palate is shit. But it's like a bunch of us tried. You know, I'm just asking whether you still I still I still believe it because I don't ascribe magical properties like uh Alice Waters does to Confi. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[28:37] Well, I mean old school comfy duck is so delicious. I don't care whether it's magic or not, delicious product. I don't know, you can maybe make it other ways, but it's delicious product. It's magically tasting. I th I think it's delicious.
+
+[28:47] I think crisp like look, I would uh this is the time of year what I would love some duck confie. But prefer modern under salted confie or old school. No, I like old school. Yeah. Come on.
+
+[28:56] You know why? Tastes good. It tastes a little because salt. We've covered this. Salt is delicious.
+
+[29:00] Salted butter, salted confie. It's not supposed to be hyper juicy, it's supposed to be comfy. I don't know if people realize that like not everything has to be the same thing. Not all the things have to be. No, it isn't.
+
+[29:09] It is that um I don't want it super juicy. Right. Right. I want some chew to it. Yeah.
+
+[29:15] Ding. Uh the other one that I wish that I could replicate. I wish I had remembered when I went to go see you guys at the at the lab for that dinner is the gooey duck was nuts. Had you not had gooey duck before? Was that the first time?
+
+[29:28] No, I had a bunch of times, but not cooked that way, not made into pasta and like put in a CVAP. Yeah. It was real good. I'd only had it. I mean, so good you missed your flight over it, as I recall.
+
+[29:38] That's true. I like uh every time that I've ever slept at the airport. Oh man, if you've never slept at CTAC. Um the don't, just don't do it. Uh I was actually there in time, but your your silly, your silly little mind.
+
+[29:54] Whatever. I mean, you built it. Okay. Uh so the most of the time I've had gooey duck is just the thing where you know you you you you quick blanch it, rip off the condom, and then slice it real thin. You know what I mean?
+
+[29:59] But you know, what what was your procedure on that again? I don't even remember how that was prepared at that time. I mean, I know it was cooked um it was either done in the CVAP or it was done Sue B or either way can work, but it was it was cooked really low and slow for a fairly long time so that we could sheet it out and you could you could it was much more pliable and you could sort of but not mushy. No, no, but there's you know it's not pure it's not pure collagen, right? So you're never gonna fully lose that that snap when you cook it down.
+
+[30:33] I'm gonna go ahead and say this tastes good. This is this is delicious. I'm trying not to chew into the microphone, but this is tasty. I don't know. John, can you uh c listen, you know what uh we would be remiss.
+
+[30:41] Can you hold up to the camera for the Patreon folk? The everyone all people care about they don't uh people don't even actually care how a panatone tastes now. They just want to see the crumb on Instagram. That's how stupid we become as a culture. That's how dumb we are.
+
+[30:53] That we we don't even use our mouth anymore. We just use the our phone cameras. You know what I mean? So put that up on the on the what's it called. All right.
+
+[31:02] So then uh you and like, you know, well, basically you and and who else can't went from Modernist to uh Chesha. You grew up. Yeah, so uh Grant Krilly, who was a uh development chef at Modernist, Ryan Matthew Smith, who was the principal photographer for Modernist Cuisine. Three of us basically said, Hey, you know, this is 2012, not 2008 anymore. Um, you know, we don't really want to do uh an another big book.
+
+[31:27] And you know, what people don't really remember now is that in 2008 when we started Modernist Cuisine, like blogging was kind of a new thing. Uh YouTube wasn't a thing yet. And all of a sudden by 2012, when the book was done and we'd finished the the the press tours, you know, a couple guys with the uh a Canon uh 5D Mark II could create some pretty cool cooking videos, throw them up on YouTube for free and build an audience. So we started Chef Steps uh in 2012. Back one second.
+
+[31:54] Why would Nathan never say how much the book cost? What was the reason to not say what the book costs? To this day, still won't say what the book costs. You know, I don't really know what the answer is to that. I mean, I have an idea of what the book costs uh yet I'm not gonna ask you what it is because if he doesn't want it, whatever, it doesn't matter.
+
+[32:09] I'm just curious why that was such a big thing, like why that was a issue. I mean, you talked about how many pounds of ink it was in it. No, no, he loved talking about all those things. Um hard to predict. I I don't, you know, I don't know, you know, there was nothing nefarious about it.
+
+[32:25] I think he just wasn't comfortable sharing how much he he might have invested in that. But he's built it into a you know, he's built modernist cuisine into a you know, he's done subsequent books, he's built a publisher around it. It's it's it's a it's a successful business in its own right, and he invested very, very heavily to do it. I I can't think of another having been involved in some high production cookbooks, this was off the charts. And while I think modernist cuisine was was financially very successful, I don't think he really wanted to share how much he personally had invested uh to do it.
+
+[32:53] And it's not just creating the book. Remember, he had to, you know, he published it as well. So he had to front all the cost for printing books and and you know, it's an expensive book to make. So I I think it may just be he doesn't really want to talk about the money because he's a wealthy individual and and that's private. Okay.
+
+[33:09] Curious. Yeah. Uh all right. So then uh at Chef Steps, so the the interesting thing about Chef Steps is you go from uh content creation to actual hardware manufacturing. Yeah.
+
+[33:22] Which is kind of uh an interesting route. Yeah. So I don't know if you want to say anything about that or I mean and the basic idea of it was so first off, Gabe Newell was was the financial backer uh and the only backer for for chef steps. Um I was the original cash in, and then that was not gonna get us in uh you know anywhere near far enough. And Gabe Gabe came in.
+
+[33:44] And I think Gabe correctly understood the value of YouTube, the value of being able to put your videos online was to find an audience. And one of the challenges most people who've done hardware run into is if you make the hardware, that's not enough. You've got to market it, you've got to distribute it. And like what's your advantage there? It's it's more expensive to do that than it is to develop the hardware at the end of the day.
+
+[34:03] Gabe was basically doing the same thing over at Valve, and he was pushing us to invert it on uh you know, invert the idea of like the first thing you do is build an audience, build loyalty, build trust, so that when you come out with something, they're all gonna buy it. And that was the basic logic uh is so you'd always planned on doing some hardware. Uh I think there was a little bit of uncertainty for about the first year, but it became very clear that monetizing digital content, you know, wasn't really going to be successful. Um you're competing against free. Yeah.
+
+[34:32] Free is hard to compete with. Free is very hard to compete with. And I think, you know, Chef Steps, I'm not involved anymore. It's owned by Breble, and they've gone back and tried to monetize the content. I I it it's not obvious to me that it's very successful for them.
+
+[34:43] You say, God bless. God bless. Um but the the point of it was we could see from our content that there was a lot of interest in Sous vide. And you know, there was still a lot of education to be done, and we had the best content, I think, at the time on Sous vide cooking. We built up a big audience for that.
+
+[34:58] So when we came out with our Sous vide device, which we put a lot of effort into make a uh to making an excellent product, we were able to sell it very successfully. Um that was that was a huge deal. Um now we were in a a serious competition with ANOVA, but there was also all these knockoffs, and it really turned into it was just us and ANOVA, and there was you know some reasons to choose one or the other. But I think Gabe was fundamentally right of saying you build an audience and then you sell them a product. Um I'm doing a similar thing with my company today.
+
+[35:26] It's why I do YouTube videos still, it's why I'm I'm creating the content of I can't directly compete for an advertising budget against bigger competitors. But I can build an audience that believes in me and thinks I'm trying to do the best product possible. And to the extent that they believe that's true, hopefully they buy my product. And uh let me just clarify your position is that Sous vide's a trash can idea, it doesn't work, right? Yeah, no, awful.
+
+[35:50] I was that was that was so 2019. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that yeah, that's something we used to do when we cared about things. I mean, uh you know, I was I was I uh as I said, I saw your brother-in-law before I came here. Wiley and I were talking about look, you know, back in in in 2004, 2005 when we were sort of pioneering a lot of the ideas of Sous vide, you know, we were, you know, we were fighting an uphill battle at the time.
+
+[36:10] Everyone thought it was nuts. And now it's just become kind of a thing you do. I was in I was in Cuba on vacation last uh spring break, and I was at some nice restaurant in Havana, which, you know, a little iffy, but sure enough, they're cooking Sous vide in Havana. Well, uh the barrier is so low, especially if you're not using the VAC, if you're just doing the temperature control, which is like I say the real point of Sous vide in my word word wise, I lost that battle in like oh pfft, when did I lose that battle? Early on with P Press when Did I ever tell you this story?
+
+[36:41] So so the Sous vide Supreme, which was neither Sous vide nor Supreme. Yeah, right, was it's just a uh a stagnant water bath. You know what I mean? When that came out, they were the first kind of mass market thing, right? So like my old intern weepop was NomiCo, which was the first sub thousand dollar, sub 800, sub-500.
+
+[37:00] Was it them or Sanser that was first? No, NomiCoo. Okay. Anyway. Um point being that P Press got Philip, that's Philip Press in PolyScience.
+
+[37:09] Uh he got real bent because they were making all this money on Sous vide Supreme. And so when he did his the first 800 plastic, you know, $800 plastic one, which dropped to five, I think. Yeah, he called it uh Sous vide professional or something like that. I was like, come on, dude. Why are you because no one not everyone had called the technique sous vide?
+
+[37:32] And like I was always upset because here in New York City, if it was called Sous vide, the health department would come in and bust your head open. And also it's inaccurate. But lost that battle a long time ago. And now the technique is sous vide regardless of whether you use a vacuum, which is dumb, dumb. I mean, I uh we had this debate at Chef Step Circa 2015 of should we call it Sous V should we It's not though, yeah, it shouldn't be.
+
+[37:53] But I as I pointed out, so this is where I'd kind of pragmatically disagree with you saying we don't have nearly enough marketing dollars to change the the conversation on that. Well, you know, but that's why I said at a certain point I lost, right? Like it's called what it's called, even though it's you know a bad term for it because it's literally not what it is. You know what I mean? Like but uh yeah, you know, when you lose, you lose.
+
+[38:16] Yeah, and and my standpoint is like, well, we shouldn't make it hard for customers to figure out what this is and why they'd want it. I don't think we've lost on dry brining yet. It's salting. No, no, hell no. No, no, no, no, no.
+
+[38:30] This is a this is a blip. This is a blip. We're going here already. This is a blip. You salt things.
+
+[38:35] So when you when you're when you're at the table and you're like, hey, um, I love these scrambled eggs though, but can I dry brine them a little bit? No, I'm gonna salt them. I'm gonna salt my eggs. Stupid. So dumb.
+
+[38:49] So dumb. It would make more sense to call brining wet salting. Okay. Neither of them make sense. There's brining and there's salting.
+
+[39:01] Where does where I was gonna say, where does curing fit into this? Yeah. You can do it either way. Curing is where you're changing the conformation of the proteins in something. Yeah.
+
+[39:11] That's what curing is. You know what I mean? Which dry brining does, because the concentration of salt at the service was really high in it. Back when people were making hams for the past thousand years, they weren't dry brining. What do you hey?
+
+[39:25] Hey, Bubba, what are you doing? I'm gonna salting down the hams. Oh, really? You mean you're dry brining them? Pop!
+
+[39:33] No, I'm salting the hams. You know what I mean? It's like we get the questions with 20 minutes left. So salt. All right.
+
+[39:43] Uh so we're gonna do creamy first. Okay. So have we already discussed so basically for those of you that don't, again, don't know, Paco Jet invented this thing. There was uh the Nean Mox, which was an Italian company that tried to get around the patent and made a much inferior, I had one fake, I used to call it the Faco Jet. I had one.
+
+[40:01] It made a decent product, but this it didn't work as well as the Paco Jet. Problem with the Paco Jet, aside from its extreme cost, what does it cost now? Uh I don't know what it costs now, but I think it was around six thousand dollars was the the original. It's a lot of things. I think it's more than three and I think it's closer to four.
+
+[40:17] Right, and there's there's Paco Jet, not as good, too, right? There's Paco Jet and there's Paco Jet. It's not really mini, and it's not really a lot cheaper. It's sort of like why does this thing exist? Yeah.
+
+[40:27] Well, so anyway, made in Switzerland, or thereabouts, all the parts inside are you know not standard because I looked because I used to rip them apart to fix them too. Yeah. Don't it's so hard to fix. Like I was the guy that I was the New York guy who knew how to fix Paco Jets. So like they would all come to me to get fixed.
+
+[40:43] Anyways, so I would try to find belts that I could get standard. Anyway, whatever. Uh hard. Um so it comes out, and then when their patent runs out, we can now have a $300 unit that purports to do the same thing. So Quinn has his perspective on it as a home person, and who, you know, Quinn wrote a book on ice cream, um, you know, using primarily using uh primarily like uh sorry, family show, believe we'll believe that later.
+
+[41:10] Like uh using the the things that you freeze, you know what I mean? The food panester. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so then he has the creamy. You might be interested, he only, and he I'm sure he had to change for creamy, but he'll talk about it.
+
+[41:21] Uh he he writes all of his specs so that they are uh scoopable at freezer temp. So like high so really high sugar. So domestic freezer temp, like like twenty twenty below. Yeah, yeah. That's a lot of sugar.
+
+[41:37] Right, but he's using non-sweet sugars, so they're not uh they're not let's say waste friendly. Oh, okay, yeah. So you're gonna get the shits and giggles. Yeah, yeah. But they No, but he uses a lot of like well, wait, why don't you say what you use?
+
+[41:49] They're not non-nutrial sweeteners, it's a relatively high ratio of dextros. Okay, but but remember okay, so you're bullying the solids really high. Also, remember, dextrose has twice the anti-freezing power, roughly twice the anti-freezing power of sucrose. Yeah. And it's less sweet, so it doesn't take much dextrose.
+
+[42:07] You could throw a tiny bit of alcohol in there. I think he does that sometimes. Yeah, some of the recipes too. Yeah. All right.
+
+[42:13] So, first question, Quinn. On the creamy, uh, don't you have to make them more standard because it requires it to be a certain hardness to blend right? Yes, I have redone all my specs. Okay. Uh, at least on paper.
+
+[42:26] Okay. Yeah. Uh five, six, seven recipes, and also some original ones. All right. Uh well, so do you prefer the the more standard uh base made in a in a creamy that's uh self uh tempering be or do you prefer the the Quinn style uh extra extra dextrose style?
+
+[42:51] Hmm, it's hard to say. I think overall you get a better texture with the creamy. But again, I'm coming from a perspective where I try to make pretty bulletproof recipes. So I don't notice a huge difference. Although like it's nice because I I always do an overnight wrist for my bases anyways.
+
+[43:24] But for this one, the overnight risk is also the overnight freeze. So then you can just spin it in the ninja and then it's running. It's gonna be two uh points. You know, there is a company who used to make they still make it very expensive pasteurized freeze units. I forget the name of the company, Italian company.
+
+[43:45] You've seen these? Like large, like like, you know, ice cream freezer, like as as big as this studio for like, you know, mid-size ice cream joints. Not a continuous freezer, batch. And uh, but like, you know, as big as you'd get in still use batch. And um the like the engineer slash owner that I spoke to years ago was I was like, Don't you have to age your ice cream?
+
+[44:06] Why would you want to pasteurize and then freeze right away? Because you know, theory is you I guess build up the you build up the crystal shape so that you get better stabilization. Remember, you desorb some you desorb some proteins off the uh fat molecules. He's like, No, you either want to do it right away or age. You don't want anything in between.
+
+[44:23] He's like, I go right away, but I don't really know what the science of that is. Someday we gotta have golf on. Uh I have had email, I never in person. I've had some email exchanges with him many years ago because uh César Vega, who was one of his PhD students, uh did some work with us at the Fat Document. Yeah, I know, yeah.
+
+[44:39] But but was was he was he good on email? Should we try it again? Uh he was yeah, he's fine. It's been a uh 12, 15 years. So he's the one that currently has his name on the R Buckle book.
+
+[44:51] Yes, I think so. Yeah, yeah. No one even knows our buckle ice cream anymore. When we were, you know, young, that was the book, our buckle ice cream. Yeah, you know, I think by the time I had that, he had Goff had his name on it, but so he's the lead author on the book now.
+
+[45:03] Yeah, just golf. There's no R buckle. I guess I need to buy uh buy a new copy. Yeah, anywho, um I don't know where I was going with this. So my question here then is uh oh, get this.
+
+[45:16] You're gonna appreciate this. Can I go on a small slight tangent? Yeah. Like I can stop you. So there's a company now that has a pop-up.
+
+[45:24] Wiley told me about it in Union Square. Get this. Their shtick is I haven't tasted, I don't know anything about it. Their shtick is you they have make a microwave coffee rooster that roasts just enough for you to use right now, and you're supposed to use it a la minute. And I was like, I don't understand.
+
+[45:39] Every coffee reference I have ever read says you can't you should not use I I do it actually, but you should not use coffee that you've roasted right away. Like how could they possibly use this as a selling point? Have you heard about this? Microwave coffee roasting? I I haven't heard about this.
+
+[45:52] This feels like a question for uh uh Jim Hoffman or James Hoffman. Yeah, I'll ask him about it. I don't know if you need to try their stuff. They haven't kick started it yet. They're doing this pop-up in Union Square, but then they're using cameras to look at it.
+
+[46:02] But I mean microwaves are real hard because once starts something starts like up, once something loses all of its moisture and starts going, but it's gonna become a better it's gonna throw it seems to me to be an interesting problem. Let's put it that way. I mean of getting it to absorb evenly ding, yeah and and not get thermal runaway. Right. Unless you can somehow make only the steam and smoke absorb, but I don't see how you can do that.
+
+[46:24] You know what I'm saying? So it's like it seems to me to be a difficult problem. And also, why would I want to why would why are you swimming against the stream of everyone wants coffee roasted later? Anyway, whatever. Whatever, I digress.
+
+[46:37] So uh my question, and one of the reason I want to have you two on together to mention the creamy stuff is that um, you know, you've used the the Paco Jet, and I was speaking to, you know, my buddy uh Leo Robichek, and I asked him, Are you using the creamy or Paco Jet? He's like, No, we're using the Paco Jet, we just can't trust the creamy in a commercial environment. So in a commercial environment, is it possible because the price difference is so extreme to use a creamy, or is it what you think would be advisable? Uh so here's the interesting thing, and I kind of wanted to make this comment earlier. Um I took apart the cream, you know, I've taken a Paco Jet apart, and uh a lot of people make the mistake of equating it's expensive and it's heavy with therefore, it's got great parts.
+
+[47:16] Like, no, these are all bespoke made parts. Um, there's no, you know, they've over time figured out what's reliable, but it's not a high reliability machine. Um, and the failure points are about the same. When I took apart the creamy, uh, actually kind of surprised me. I had the impression that, you know, and I went and bought it with my own money, and I think it was actually Nick Caconis made some comment on on Twitter about how it couldn't possibly be good at that price, but I'm like, eh.
+
+[47:37] I know a thing or two about mass manufacturing. So you're gonna make a bunch of them. And and this is a you know, Shark Ninja buys a lot of motors, right? Which is the primary thing. And they knew so they have a lot of engineers with deep motor expertise.
+
+[47:49] The engineering uh is actually very, very, very good. Um, better than the Paco Jet, in my opinion. They made a bunch of interesting technical choices to hit the pricing targets, but it surprised me because I had the expectation of it would be fairly garbagey. And as a result, I ended up going up to like the website for Shark Ninja and just looking at like their job openings and realized they have scaled up their engineering team in four cities massively. And they're putting a lot of interesting stuff out.
+
+[48:14] I imagine it's uneven, but they do good engineering, was my point. And this was a well thought through product. It made some serious trade-offs to be approachable for a domestic machine that does that that could be a factor in a commercial situation. As an example, I would like it if the diameter was larger. And the reason is the tip speed of your blade, your blade would be larger diameter, and your tip speed would be faster, and you would get more shear force.
+
+[48:38] And I find for a lot of times the creamy I have to spin it twice rather than once, and that would be annoying. It's smaller than a Paco blade, it is, but bigger than the NeMox blade, which was tiny. Yeah. And and that that turned out to be uh important in in, you know, it's a it's an appreciable difference. I I say it in the video, I don't remember, but I think it's like 30% smaller in diameter.
+
+[48:59] So that's pretty massive in terms of what you're at this, you know. And it runs at a slightly lower RPM. Those two factors together means your tip speed is like I think I figured out it was like half as fast. That's a pretty big difference on your shear force. And what's its uh time to time to pitcher?
+
+[49:13] Is it similar? No, it's a little it feeds slower. It depends on the mode. Yeah. Right.
+
+[49:17] But you can have three of these. But even in the hot even in the fast mode, it does feed slower. The milling operation feeds slower than the the Paco Jet. But the blade, blades made the same way. They're both centered stainless steel blades.
+
+[49:30] So uh another problem I have with the Faco Jet. Well, yeah. I would also say that mine I've been making again, my heavily stabilized product. The clearance for the blade and the canister could be a little tighter. I get like, you know, a very thin cylinder and the very bottom of the container, sometimes like basically unprocessed.
+
+[49:57] Yeah. Yeah, that that I I find one, the tip speed makes a big difference there. If the blade tip was moving faster, it would rip that material away from the surface. But the other issue is because it's a plastic container and these are injection molded, they have draft in them. So they're angled, they're not straight-sided like the Paco Jet ones are, which means the clearance of the blade at the top is large relative to the clearance at the bottom because there's an angle to the to the clear.
+
+[50:20] The FACO jet also had a problem like that. But and it was also plastic. Do they make an upgrade stainless that you can they they uh not that I'm aware of? I did see that they have a new version of it out with a different form factor and the the thing inserts kind of at an angle. I haven't tried it, but um by the way, if you're new and you're working in a professional restaurant and you see something that looks like a Bane Marie and it's got three dimples in the bottom, that's not a Bane Marie.
+
+[50:48] That's don't touch it. Don't touch it. Don't dent it. Um, so I think I'd say this. Look, I bought mine, I think, for around 200.
+
+[50:59] They go on sale all the time. Paco jets are really expensive. I can put them on subscribe and save with Amazon. I don't care if I'm going through one or two a week. But here's the thing the motor's not going to like they did a bunch of interesting things where they separated the drive motor from it to use a gearing system and a low-cost DC motor from the that advances the motor.
+
+[51:19] That is exactly the way they optimize the motor for different jobs. Whereas Paco Jet has some very complex gearing and clutch. Which is a bad idea and it breaks. And it breaks a lot. So I kind of look at this and go, the ninja is very unlikely to break in a commercial environment.
+
+[51:32] It is inconvenient in that it doesn't process as fast. You sometimes have to spin it twice to get the servable texture. Um you live with these? Well, if you can't, I mean, if look, if you're a linea, you should have a Paco Jet. Probably more than one because they break and you need a backup.
+
+[51:47] Um, if you're a restaurant where you're like, hey, we're gonna use this occasionally, it'd be a nice to have, then get two of them. Then get two of these. Get three of them. It's it, you know, it's not gonna break you. All right.
+
+[51:58] Let's see, we have some specific specific questions, but then we got to get into uh thermo thermometers. Uh question from William Savados. Uh I've been thinking about trying to make creamy versions of aperitif sorbet's Negroni or Marrow based. I assume the biggest challenge will be to balance the ingredients that depress the freezing point with ones that don't. Perhaps some of the newer zero-proof cocktail ingredients uh substitutes that have come to market could be useful here.
+
+[52:21] Any guidance would be appreciated. Any and you guys experiment with that, with that uh genre? Yeah, again, right? I just if you want alcohol, like to use the original ingredients. I basically would not use the creamy.
+
+[52:39] I would use a conventional churn. I agree. Okay there. If you really want the creamy, then I would again I would use like a small amount of the real thing and then substitute with like some sort of non elk. Here's an idea.
+
+[52:57] You ready for an idea? Here's another idea. Like just make an alcohol fluid gel and then mix it in with the stuff you spin. Boop, done. Okay.
+
+[53:05] You know, make the alcohol fluid gel, get it real cold in your freezer. It's never gonna freeze because it's alcohol fluid gel. And just fold it. And just fold it in, baby. Like uh, you know, that's and then so it's like swirl, so it's like freaking Negroni swirl, and now you have the best of all the worlds.
+
+[53:18] You have a good texture of freaking ice cream. That's my other criticism of the entire genre of style of machine. I could never solely use this a blade-driven machine, because you can only do swirls and mix-ins once. Yep. Unless you want it really mixed in.
+
+[53:42] Uh Dave Kleiman wants to know has anyone made Italian ices with the creamy? And if so, what settings do you use? Any special considerations? I can't say that I have. I love Italian ices.
+
+[53:52] I love them. What do you like about them? Uh, I like going out for Italian ice, and you just had a pizza and you're at Libby's in Worcester Square, and you wait in line and they handpack the Italian ice and you choose the two flavors and you sit there eating it. You know, I didn't have that experience growing up, so I just think it's lost on me. I've I've had them.
+
+[54:14] Yeah. It's never something I would create. Like, I would never detour to go, oh, let me let me get that. Yeah. What about what about where you have the one scoop of I'll I'll be for Quinn so not to get bent here, like gelato and then a scoop of Italian ice next to it.
+
+[54:29] So you have the creamy and you have the icy. I just don't love the icy texture. Like it's lost on me. Me either. Nice.
+
+[54:37] Just cold. Yeah, see, I'm I'm I'm I'm on team dent sore base. Dave, they got nothing for you, man. Dave, they these these these guys are not gonna be helpful for you. Sorry about that.
+
+[54:49] Uh Kevin Stademeyer, uh, finally caught up on her. New question. Got a creamy after hearing the crew talk about it. Does the speed of freezing for the container matter? I.
+
+[54:56] Is it worth pre-cooling before freezing, or do the blades just annihilate all the ice crystals? I have my guess, but what do you guys think? I don't think it makes much of a bring it to room temperature. I'll say that you're not like warming up your freezer. I will say this about jets.
+
+[55:10] And if you free there is an issue if you freeze it too fast, you get that little volcano forming in the center, which you gotta chisel down because it causes the blade too. Will that hurt? So I mean in Paco Jets, one of the problems is the the things, the containers are so expensive that people would freeze in quart containers and then pop out of cork containers and jam them in. And then it spins. And then it spins, or if it's off kilter, the blade hits too hard on one side, you can shatter the blade.
+
+[55:33] I've I have shattered the blade. It is it is bad. Um the ninja uh creamy appears to do a reasonable amount of software control to say, hey, I'm I'm I'm getting over torqued, I'm getting out of balance and and and shut it down. Um the Paco Jet, I think I think any milling style machine is is prone to this. If you're you're advancing a milling blade through, and if the blade gets too much wobble or the material isn't frozen to the side so it can freeze spin, it's not gonna do anything.
+
+[55:58] Well, those dimples in the bottom or the in the fake o the paddles I have in the bottom are there to stop spin. What do they have in the bottom of the cream? They have some molded dimples in the bottom. Yeah, to stop spin. Yeah.
+
+[56:09] Um the other issue that you can have. Now here's the thing. In in the yeah, when they first came out with the Paco Jet, the theory was you could just spin the top two servings and then the leave the rest unspun. In practice, I've never done this. I've only ever spun the whole container.
+
+[56:24] And if you are freezing something that isn't homogenous, you need to worry that you're going to get floaters if you are only going to process a portion at a time. Um I I've processed portions at the Fat Duck, but it was probably homogenous mixtures. Not like floating on top. They were homogenous mixtures. And I don't think it was something I needed to do frequently.
+
+[56:47] I think there was a couple occasions where it didn't make sense to process the whole thing. But generally, yeah, I blitzed whole container. Right. Because like one of the things you think you can do is like, I'll just throw in whole peppercorns and it's gonna blend them up. Yeah, uh, yeah.
+
+[56:57] I would probably grind the peppercorns first before you put them into the mixture, but then they're also gonna float all to the top. Yep. And then if you only grind the top, that's a lot of pepper. Or mushrooms or whatever the hell else you're putting into your by the way, everyone's like, you're gonna use it for moose. No, you're not, right?
+
+[57:09] You're gonna I mean I think for any of those mix-ins, my strategy always was after blitzing the the smooth base, put it in a plastic container and do a uh and and fold things in and then and then do your quinels or your roches. Oh, you weren't doing it directly out of the out of the thing? Sometimes Does anyone still do that? Is anyone still two spoon hot hot bane? No.
+
+[57:27] That's dead. That's for savages. It's dead. For Neanderthals. Yeah, but that used to be the thing.
+
+[57:32] Every restaurant, you sit there, boop boop, scoop, scoopy scoop. I had one dish that we did that because it had to have three sides. I remember like yeah, I had to have I have perfectly round spoons so I could get the nice little three-sided quinelle. Stab me. It was some it was uh, you know, uh tartar sauce.
+
+[57:46] Yeah, you know, it's like uh what are some other things that are are dead are dead? Uh turned turned vegetables. Yeah, I've seen that coming back though. I've seen some mushrooms. Okay, questions.
+
+[57:55] I've seen some mushrooms. Uh included mushrooms. Uh okay. Uh this is a slightly ice cream, but not uh this. Uh I was wondering if you any uh one has sage advice for adding soft serve machine to a restaurant dessert program.
+
+[58:07] I have access to uh the Stolting uh F one eleven three seven one, which is their like roughly I think seven or eight thousand dollar air cool job, two forty. But um uh I'm really just keen to hear thoughts on whether or not to attempt to develop our own base or just try uh to flavor pre-made bases. I thought we answered this once. I don't always love the flavor texture of uh traditional pre-made, but I'm also understanding making your own can be quite challenging. Um any book or human you suggest for a resource, anything you you uh ice cream by Goff uh has a section on stabilizing soft serve mixes, and I think that is the challenge of getting they really need to be h homogenized.
+
+[58:44] They need to have a good stabilizing system. It's doable, but I've had the soft serve is become very trendy in Seattle. I've had a lot of house made soft serve mixes that just melt. I think you know, one of the things that's nice about so it needs to stand up, it needs to stay dry, it needs to not piss all over the the cone. You can always see a a homemade base because it just melts down too quickly.
+
+[59:04] But the way around that is not to just include so much air that it's its own insulator. No, no. There's uh I think it's uh usually like calcium sulfate for drying it, and then there's a a good, you know. I would buy a pre-made stabilizer system unless you really know what you're doing. You know what I've always wanted to own?
+
+[59:19] Like Wiley, I guess has got a stabilizer system. Yeah, come on. Of course he does. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[59:23] Uh I've always wanted to own a frozen custard machine. I have no reason to own one. But they're mini continuous freezers. They're amazing. Department's like a museum, isn't it?
+
+[59:31] Oh my god. I wish I owned one. I don't. I don't. Someday, someday.
+
+[59:34] If I you know, ever, you know, whatever. I would buy that before I bought the helicopter. They're only twelve grand. I mean only. Yeah, only what are you gonna do with a twelve grand frozen custard machine?
+
+[59:42] You know what I mean? Put it in your storage and in Stanford with all the other stuff. Open up a pop-up here at Rockefeller Plaza. Yeah, yeah. Come get your custards.
+
+[59:50] Uh JAH, this is also an old question. I don't know if we answered it. Uh why? And I didn't look it up, so I hope someone here knows the answer. Why is Stracciatella called Stracciatella?
+
+[59:58] I thought that was cheese in relation to Because Stracciatella means shredded cloth. So in Italian, it is shredded cloth. It's also curds of fresh cheese, and it is also Italian egg drop soup. And it is gelato where it's clean or vanilla spended with um shred threads of chocolate. Yeah.
+
+[1:00:24] Shred this. This is just a word to confuse non-native speakers. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Very context dependent.
+
+[1:00:30] All right, Trafto writes in. Uh I've done some side-by-side tests of the Paco Jet and Creamy using the same ice cream base at work and have noticed a slight iciness on the finish with the creamy that you don't get in the Paco. You talked about this a little bit. Have you experienced anything similar? If so, how would you troubleshoot a problem like that when developing recipes for the creamy as opposed to uh pocket jet?
+
+[1:00:48] Would you just use more invert sugar? For what is worth, I'm using a light custard base with the usual sugars and stabilizers, glucose, glucose powder, milk powder, xanthan, and guar. I would probably start by getting my solid content up. Oh, by the way, Trafto, I hope you're using flavor-free and tea flavor-free uh guar from uh the TIC gums. But go ahead.
+
+[1:01:06] I would uh right off the bat, if it's icy, uh it usually points to low solids for me. And and yeah, this is one where the slower cutting speed and uh because it doesn't have as much shear force, the the sides of the container don't get as is as sheared down into smaller particles, and then they get folded in. So you can't. Yeah, that's what I'm more worried about. I'm more worried about the chunks coming off before they're is that why you double double?
+
+[1:01:28] That's why you I tend to have to do it double. How hard is it to pop it? How hard is it to pop it like do a do a scrape down before you reprocess? I don't even usually have to do a scrape down, I just hit the button twice. So it won't, so in other words, it rips enough off the sides that you're not going to get some bull crap.
+
+[1:01:43] And then how much colder, how many more degrees of cool do you need on it to be able to double process it and still have it be servable right away without having to uh what's it called? Uh re-temper it back down. Because I know in service, whenever we would double spin Pacos, we would throw them back in the freezer for a while before we started serving out. You know, I don't think I can. Temperature drops about You mean raises?
+
+[1:02:04] Two degrees for the actual respin button. Because you can do whatever mode you did twice, but then there is also a slightly weaker, faster respin. I think most of my testing, the gelato mode brought things from storage temperature, which is roughly 18 to 20, down to like 12, and then if you re-spin, it brings it down to about 10. What? This is going the wrong direction.
+
+[1:02:36] I understand. Yeah, he's talking about minus, minus, minus number. He's doing it in Celsius. Yeah, he's doing it in Celsius. Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah.
+
+[1:02:44] No, he's doing it in Fahrenheit. He's just not saying minus 18. Oh, you are getting all confused. It's warmer. It gets warmer by two degrees Celsius on the on the fast spin, is what you're saying.
+
+[1:02:55] For a full beak. In the respin. For a big thing. All right, there you go. I mean, that's not that's not nothing.
+
+[1:03:01] Paco didn't used to be able to do that. How's this on aeration versus the Paco? Do you still have that fake do you have to? No, it doesn't inject air, so I think it's better in that regard. I hate the air hose on the packet.
+
+[1:03:10] I hate it. Uh first. It's part of their patent, though. Yeah, well, we we so first off, if you ever take the thing apart, that thing's a bacteria. Like you can't get that clean.
+
+[1:03:17] The air hose section? Yeah, and and you can't take it off to clean it with without being destructive. It is not uh it is not serviceable without a destructive destruction of a part. Everyone I know used to just jam a bamboo skewer in and snap the skewer off. Oh no, when I bought one uh Paco Jet off eBay for for that video, and there was tons of shit up in that tube.
+
+[1:03:36] And we're like, oh, we're blowing through like this is this is vile. Yeah. So that hose came right off because that's just a bacterial trap. I think it's a terrible idea. Everybody should nobody should use that on their pocket.
+
+[1:03:44] You've been using it on the creamy and you didn't need it. Uh creamy doesn't inject air, and I don't I I I never like that mousy, fluffy texture that you get from air injection. Is it a sealed top the way the Paco is, other than that air hole? I mean, it it's it's not a hermetic seal, but you're just milling down, so there's not a a lot of air entrainment action. Right.
+
+[1:04:01] Because if you read the Paco patent, there's a lot about that crap in it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was that was key. And I think it's worth waste of time. All right, so if we have time, which we will not all have you ever used a water fryer?
+
+[1:04:11] No. Okay, then there's well, I'll save it for later then. Okay. All right. Um if you had used one, you've heard about them though, right?
+
+[1:04:17] I've always wanted to try one. Are you d describe what you're talking about? So what they do is they have an extra deep cold zone so that uh at the end of the day. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I I I I yes.
+
+[1:04:26] Japanese thing. And then they have an ad where there's goldfish swimming around eating the the floaty bits that fall down. Yeah, but so like someone's like, why does it work? Well, it works. If it works I've always wanted to try one.
+
+[1:04:35] If it works, it's because the cold zone is big enough so that they the the water portion is never in the uh higher than boiling point section. That is how it works. And if the water were to get to that section, you'd be in deep, deep, deep trouble. You know what I mean? But it's not, so there you go.
+
+[1:04:51] Yeah. Anyway. Uh all right. So let's talk about combustion engineering. Your new new new project.
+
+[1:04:56] Uh, you know, the reason we want to have one, we only have four minutes to talk about it, but um. So I use this thing, it's awesome. So the you want to give the quick pitch of what we're doing here, what it is. And by the way, this is the new charger. If you have the old one, you need to get the new the new charge.
+
+[1:05:10] You want to talk about what this is and yeah. So uh it's a wireless thermometer. Uh it's the thinnest on the market. Um we think it's uh it's got that's the cell thinnest on the market. I'm getting there, Dave.
+
+[1:05:20] I'm getting there. Uh so the big the big differentiator is eight temperature sensors. So we measure the temperature everywhere. Because you know, you care about the temperature more than just at the center of your food because you eat more than just the center of your food. I don't, but yes.
+
+[1:05:31] Oh, you just you throw everything else away. All right, well, that's cut all the flavor off in just the center. You do you. Yeah. Um, so the basic idea is we're measuring the temperature everywhere.
+
+[1:05:41] We let you see the temperature everywhere at the surface and the core everywhere in between. We use all that to feed into our physics engine. We're actually building a full simulation of the food in software on the probe that lets us predict when the food will be done. We are working on being able to predict carryover and barbecue stall because we do actually we're starting to build in the ability to look at water migration and evaporation in our physics model. The other cool thing we do is because we're measuring the temperature everywhere and we have a lot of processor in that probe.
+
+[1:06:08] Now we're uh being able to track how much time you've spent at safe cooking temperatures. We're tracking the total pasteurization so we can tell you when you've achieved a six and a half log or a seven log reduction, if that's important to you, so that you can have juicy chicken or pork chops that aren't cooked to 165 but are still meeting the USDA FDA levels. Now, before we spoke of before we get on here, we were talking about this, and what's interesting, you say so one of the things that's nice is because it's your company and you are somebody that likes to have control of the products. You give people eventually the ability to actually see things that they find interesting, even if they are not the typical user. And this is one of the things I really have an open API.
+
+[1:06:46] We have a lot of people creating cool stuff with this. Yeah. And so this has how many sensors on it again? Eight. Right.
+
+[1:06:50] So here's the interesting thing, right? The actual thinking is not buried in the head where you think it is. The thinking is buried where the where there's going to be moisture. Yeah, we have the we there's a there's about a one and a half inch, uh, 50 millimeter, sorry, it's a little more than one and a half an inch, 50 millimeter zone where we've got the battery. We have all the we have a full-fledged arm coprocessor in there, and that's where it's doing all the thinking.
+
+[1:07:10] And we rely on being inserted in the food and the food having enough water to keep it below the boiling point of water. Although I had to say, so like, you know, uh it says all over it, and I haven't tried to abuse it. Um do not uh you know, make sure that that's always inserted in food because that's the one way to kill it, right? If you get it too hot, you can eventually fry the the electronics. Yeah, but I got it up to get this, dude.
+
+[1:07:30] Uh I was doing baked potatoes. So you know how, like in a in a baked potato, if you overcrowd your oven, it's kind of unpredictable how long it's gonna take to cook. So I was like, I, you know, I did what I normally do. I wash them, oil them, salt them, jab them, and I went boom, and you just shove the nice thing about this is you just shove it wherever, and as long as you get sharp. Yeah, as long as you hit anywhere near the center, you're good.
+
+[1:07:51] Yeah, but um the potato that I chose split a little bit, and so it got hot into the area of the probe and it made it up to like hotter than it should have. The probe is fine. Yeah, no, there's there's margins of safety built in there. We've got to not say to abuse it. Um, you know, we we obviously rate it for 300 Celsius in the upper half, uh 575 Fahrenheit roughly.
+
+[1:08:13] There's a margin of safety on that, right? Because flare ups happen. Same with with the with the battery and everything. But uh, I know people like to have uh wires on their thermometer because they love wires coming out of their oven. But why did you decide that like not to have the wires that everybody loves?
+
+[1:08:26] No, it's amazing. I'm kidding. It's like you shove this in and you can walk away from it, and sucker works. Um and uh listen. So that's the other thing is we made it really easy to connect, right?
+
+[1:08:38] Usually you have to go through this pairing process, you have to get out. You don't have to do any of that. There's a kitchen timer. If you don't want to every there's a cool app, but if you don't give a crap about any of that, you can just use the kitchen timer and it connects out of the box one second, no hassle. And uh, you know, stick it to your fridge or whatever, which is what I do.
+
+[1:08:52] I have it on my fridge. Um yeah. So the and this also tells you how much the nice thing about this or the phone app is it tells you how much battery is left in this so that you don't it tells you when it gets low. Right. So we when when it when it says hey, there's low, there's about 90 minutes of battery run time left.
+
+[1:09:07] But it only takes uh 15 minutes for a full charge that'll last over 30 hours, and and two minutes will give you like I think two minutes of charging gives you about four hours. Yeah, so here's the cool thing, and this is just becoming just a promotional placement. But the cool thing about this uh new charger, which I haven't used yet, thank you, is that uh this acts as a Wi-Fi repeater or Bluetooth report. Bluetooth repeater, it forms a mesh network, yeah. Yeah, sweet.
+
+[1:09:28] Yeah, so we I mean we have a battery in there so now I can go inside. I can have my this in my grill. Yeah, I can put this on my deck, yeah, and then I can be in the kitchen. Yeah, and they just will figure out the most efficient path to hop and get the data to you. Right.
+
+[1:09:40] Uh yeah. So again, like the the cool thing is you stick it in and after after there's enough of a curve, right? Which is about to change. We we we right now it takes 30% before it gives you a prediction. We're about to launch the next phase of our physics engine, which will give you pretty good predictions starting at 10%.
+
+[1:09:57] Oh nice. But here's another thing. If you're a professional, which I know a lot of you listen are, eventually, once they test this, I don't think you kind of glossed over it, kind of a big deal. So, like everyone's numbers, uh, a lot of people's numbers now are time. Do you hit a specific temperature target, and you're done from a safety perspective, not from a cooking perspective, right?
+
+[1:10:14] Yeah. So what you're allowing to do is say, actually, no, uh, bacteria don't like they're not healthy, healthy, healthy, healthy dead. It is more like, well, individual bacteria are, but like uh, you know, they you get up to uh every they start dying at 130 Fahrenheit. Right, and then they die faster as you go higher. So what you're saying is I can choose a target temperature.
+
+[1:10:35] It knows from the FDA tables how long it takes to get a certain level of safety, and now it'll do what you said, integrate. We are counting every second at 130, every second at 131, 132, and we will tell you when that that'll hit that level. Right. So all of the things that I've been doing my whole life, I'm assuming I'm only taking the high temperature that you go to and doing my time integration on that. This is taking, as soon as you enter the killing zone, it starts to integrate, which is genius.
+
+[1:11:00] But get this. So in the real life, the real way people do this when they're professional, professional professionals, like industry, is they actually have two numbers, D and Z that determine uh for the pathogen of interest, like how much cooking they need to do, right? And you're eventually gonna give us control. We can put our own D and Z numbers in. There will be a commercial version because commercial users have some special needs.
+
+[1:11:19] They're gonna need records, they're gonna need to know what the pathogen was, they're gonna need to show their health inspector that this is all legit. But we've essentially distilled the 700 pages of the 2022 FDA food code and annex two of the USDA food uh FSIS guidance, put it in this thermometer so that it's basically saying, look, we will tell you when it's safe. It will be much sooner than you think. Your food meat will still be couldn't be cooked to a much lower temperature, and you're still compliant. So we'll eventually make it possible for commercial users to have all the details and control they want.
+
+[1:11:46] Is this even sharper than the Mark One? Uh we've we we tweaked the tip a little bit. It's it's about the same sharpness. There's a slight different shape to it. And uh this thing that looks like plastic, what is it so people don't worry about it?
+
+[1:11:57] That is aluminum oxide ceramic, and it is very scratch resistant. You can use when that gets all gummed up in your smoker. Don't worry about using barkeep for another stainless steel, you won't scratch it. Did people dishwash this? You can dishwash it, but if you've got burned, it's like you put a if you put like a Lake Crusade and there's like burned on grease, it's not coming off in the dishes.
+
+[1:12:14] Oh, not ever. But everything else is, you know, uh 316L stainless steel. All right, so uh I also use this when I was doing uh stuff for my book because I really like the fact that you can use it as uh a multi-probe data logging thermometer. If any of you folks are like recipe developers or cooking nerds, really you should kind of go get one. So anyway, uh sorry couldn't spend more time on thermometer.
+
+[1:12:38] We spent so much time on the code. That's okay. Go to Combustion.inc to learn more. Yeah, yeah. Uh I would say uh from a cooking issues perspective, go ahead and buy one.
+
+[1:12:46] Yeah. I appreciate that. Yeah. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Marlon, your host of Cooking Juices coming to you live from Manhattan. Hard in New York City, Rockefeller Center, Newsstand Studio. Happy 2024. Happy New Year.
+
+[0:25] Joined as usual with uh John, how you doing? Doing great, thanks. Happy New Year. Yeah? Yeah.
+
+[0:29] Yeah. Yeah. Joe Hazen rocking the panels. What's up? Hey, everybody.
+
+[0:34] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Over in uh California, we got Nastasia the Hammer Lopez and Jackie Molecules. How you doing? I'm good. I'm in DC, actually.
+
+[0:44] How's it going over there? Well, actually, it's probably nice in DC this time of year. This is like the best time of year to be in DC, no. Uh no, it's cold compared to LA. I mean and I'm sick, so that's not fun.
+
+[0:55] How cold is cold? I mean 45, 40. Yeah. All right. I mean, yeah.
+
+[1:03] Yeah. Okay. All right, LA, man. All right. Randy Newman.
+
+[1:06] Uh, and in the upper upper left, we got uh Quinn, how you doing? Hey, I'm doing good. Good. So this is the first show of the new year, first show since uh all the holiday festivities. Uh any good uh food or other related stories from the past couple of weeks.
+
+[1:23] Anything? Anything? What do you guys call it? I got some stuff, but I'll do I'll go with the hands. Well, you're no now you said you got stuff, so we're all sitting around waiting and then they could think of what they want to say while you're okay again.
+
+[1:34] We we did uh well uh Christmas was fun. We were gonna have like a big, big dinner, but it got scaled down because people were sick, but it was probably better in the end. We did uh a Japanese A five wagu steak. We fried that off. Which which cut other trim.
+
+[1:56] Uh there was uh uh I think it was tripling. Good. No, sorry. Good. That's the only kind of m beef where I prefer the strip to the rib.
+
+[2:07] Like the A five Wagyu strip? Sick. Inside by sides that I've done with various different people's iterations of it. But yeah, nice. How was it?
+
+[2:16] Yeah, it's really good. But again, some people in my family don't prefer it. But again, we seared off some. Don't prefer it to what? Don't prefer it to what?
+
+[2:27] To vegetables? They don't prefer well no, like they don't prefer the beef so fatty compared to like a more moderately marbled beef. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what is it that they don't like about it?
+
+[2:41] Like what what is it that they prefer about the other? 'Cause I I could see that, right? Do they like the more kind of well, first of all, I think a lot depends on how you cook it. What was your protocol? You said fry, but was it pre we no no, we just like again we had like naturally shaped New York strip shapes, but we trimmed it up into like nice little squares because we had use for the trim as well.
+
+[3:05] So we s just seared it off hard at the bottom of a walk and then fried off all the extra bits, and then we made fried w fried rice in the walk. Oh, is that why you used a walk? Why not like mm okay? I'm assuming I'm praying you have a flat bottom walk. Yes.
+
+[3:25] Okay. So at least the meat was against something flat and not something against curves. The pieces the pieces we trimmed fit perfectly at the bottom of the flat bottom. Rather but yeah. So the point is is that you weren't trying to cook the meat on a curved surface.
+
+[3:39] You don't hate God that much. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And uh so then you're just fla so wait, so you're doing it basically like uh Cesare Casella style, black and blue.
+
+[3:52] You have not met a chef who likes a burnt outside raw inside like the chef chez. They were relatively skin steak. Uh you know, I mean, you steer them pretty hard on both sides. I would say they would certainly like rare in the middle, not blue. Mm-hmm.
+
+[4:10] How thick were they? Uh I I I'm terrible at judging these things, but like definitely like that's why they make rulers, Quinn. That's why they make rulers. Yeah. What do you think?
+
+[4:22] How how how thick? I enter a little left. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people like the uh the A5 stuff thinner, A, because it's richer, and B because it's so damned expensive, and they'd rather have like a big old.
+
+[4:34] You know how a ridiculous A5 was Weg Wegmans? It it it looks really good. It was banana lambading donk, but it's also $120 for a steak. Yeah. And I was like, you know what?
+
+[4:44] Nah. No, I'm gonna buy your frozen king crab legs instead. I'm gonna buy a decent dry age steak and your frozen king crab legs. That was my new year's dinner. I like a frozen king crab leg.
+
+[4:55] Never had. You never had frozen king crab? I don't think I've ever had any king crab. What's wrong with you? I don't know.
+
+[4:59] I'm just like, for some reason it's become like this holy grill thing, and I think I'm just waiting for it. I don't do that. I know. Don't make it a holy grail, just make it something. Yeah, I know I should.
+
+[5:07] Just do it, yeah. Yeah, yeah. They they're right, you're right. They catch it, they chop its leg, they cook it, they chop its legs off, they freeze it right there on the boat. Yeah, yeah, I know.
+
+[5:16] Rewarm it really quickly. I know. Nothing fancy. Yeah. You know?
+
+[5:19] No, you're not wrong. Yeah. I'm wrong. Yeah. They even pre cut along the seam of the leg so that you could break it.
+
+[5:24] I mean, it's it's honestly you should serve it with a pair of scissors, though. Yeah, that makes sense. You know? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[5:29] Because people are like, how do I just listen? Just cut up both sides. Yeah. Open it. No, I need to.
+
+[5:29] I mean, everything at the new Wegmans is pretty amazing. That fish section they have is. They have three. They have three different fish sections. Okay.
+
+[5:41] One with with all the Japanese fish. No, no. Well, not in counting the upstairs. They have the Japanese fish counter, the American fish counter, the frozen case, and the salmon counter. That's true.
+
+[5:52] Crazy. It really is. Alright, so uh all right, so you seared at the bottom of the walk and then you made a fried rice. How was your how was your fried rice? Was it beefy?
+
+[6:00] Really good. Yeah. Pretty, you know, simple scallion ginger garlic. A little reek as well to like western quality leeks. Oh, leaks.
+
+[6:11] You know what? I again, I just won't do leaks in my house. I just can't. I can't. I can't.
+
+[6:17] Because like getting grit, there's nothing worse than getting grit, which is why I don't cook clams as much as I would like. Because I love the flavor of clams, hate grit. Love razors, hate grit. Razor is God's clam, I think. Like if you could only have one kind of cooked clam, cooked.
+
+[6:31] If you could have only one kind of cooked clam, for me it would be razors. Yeah. Because they're so good. They are. You know what I like that a lot of people don't.
+
+[6:38] They think it's des class A? Stuffed clams. Oh, love stuffed clams. I love stuff. I think it's like maybe it's just a Northeast thing.
+
+[6:47] People who don't I don't know. I don't know. They're so good. So delicious. Anyone else here like or dislike stuffed clams?
+
+[6:55] I love them. Oh yeah. Nice. Catch a big old cohog. You know what?
+
+[7:00] I don't think. So we okay. Okay, that's bad, but it was like the 70s and 80s, right? Nobody cared. We used to go out without any sort of shellfish license at the Cape and just catch, you know.
+
+[7:09] You you s you walk around at low tide with your with your toes in the air, on your heels, you do that heel walk thing, and you're like feeling for that little that little hard spot in the sand, and on like the tidal flats, there's not like there's the area that's super rocky, right? But then like there's that whole area of the tidal flat that's not super rocky. So pretty much anything your heel feels is a cohog. You know what I mean? And you're digging up these cohogs, and they make the best stuffies, dude.
+
+[7:34] So good. So good. So good. Um there was a lot of there was a lot of uni on, or what's it called? Yeah.
+
+[7:42] Sea urchin? Uh sea urchin, yeah. In on the beach this weekend. In uh all the way down all the way down by you? I guess the water's still really cold there, right?
+
+[7:54] So I'm sure it's delicious. But nobody wanted to eat it. Dumb okay, I'm not allowed to curse. All right, I was uh you you almost got me. I almost went non-family.
+
+[8:11] Why would they not? First of all, they're the easiest dang things on earth to eat, especially if anyone had like a pair of scissors on them. Like, that's the trick with them, is the scissors. Yeah, but if you want to not get any particles in it, like click shit, bang, bang, bang, eat, eat, eat. What the hell?
+
+[8:36] Who wouldn't eat it? Was it Pat? No, I was with Peter Kim, and he was like, Why wouldn't Peter Kim eat it? I don't know. What the hell is wrong with it?
+
+[8:46] I don't know. Hey, people, hey, wake up. If a sea urchin is alive, it's alive, right? You can see it moving its spines, okay? So put on a pair of gloves, cut the or smash the bottom out of it, knock out all the goop, and eat its gonads.
+
+[8:59] Because it's delicious. Idiot. Like the thing was underwater very, very recently, right? Okay. You think the stuff in the shop that you buy has not been what the hell are you thinking?
+
+[9:14] Fudge. Oh my God. I'm sorely disappointed in Peter Cameron. But it's still a white whale for me. What?
+
+[9:22] Fresh local urchin. Oh, well, do do it. Does anyone do it up there? I mean, the you need to be able to have it's all sent to Vancouver. Yeah, well, well, I know you can't just ship with like like 20 minutes like further west.
+
+[9:37] Or it spoils on the on the uh ferry ride over. Well, uh, I don't know. I'm just saying. Yeah. It's frustrating.
+
+[9:45] It gets harvested here, but it all gets sent to Vancouver, and then I'm not gonna pay to ship it back here. There must be a way to get it directly. Yeah, I don't really know anything about how like West the West Coast coastline works, so they haven't spent that much time on it, but I'm assuming most of that stuff is diver, right? I guess. Because in Ma in Maine, you just you know, you go out by yourself, put on swim trunks, you go out, you get them.
+
+[10:14] You know what I mean? You definitely don't want to eat the ones that have been feeding on dead seals. That's that's a no. That's that's a gross, you know. Ones that have been eating not dead seals.
+
+[10:27] I told you guys that story. No. Like, so like we were going for sea urchins. Get this. I think I've told this before, but like not in probably many years.
+
+[10:35] So the place uh I used to go to this island in Maine that uh is owned by uh, you know, descendants of like Buckminster Fuller and like that, that kind of crew. And so they used to have a lot of fancy art weasels uh and design weasels on the island, and most of them are architects in the family for generations. Anywho, uh, so one of the people that used to go to the island all the time was uh Isama Naguchi, right? And so Naguchi taught these folks how to how to get sea urchins. So I learned to get sea urchins in Maine from someone who was directly taught by Naguchi, which I think is pretty cool.
+
+[11:09] So anyway, we're in like a we're in like a little boat. I think it was a I don't remember whether it's a flat bottom or a canoe, but anyway, we're going around and you know, we're looking through the water and it's clear and it's like rock bottom, not you know, some sand, but not mud bottom, right? Which is why the lobster, the lobster folks in in uh Maine disdain our cape lobsters. They're like mud bottom lobsters. They don't even they don't even care, actually.
+
+[11:34] They're like, you're like, oh, do you like Cape Lobsters? And they just like spit and then look at you without making you know what I mean? It's because they're anyway. So uh we're like taking the boat over, and I'm like, and we're looking for urchins usually on the rocks down low just below low tide because they're easiest to get. And I see this, all these sea urchins, and we're like, oh my god, we're gonna eat and then we're like, why is it in that shape?
+
+[11:56] It kind of looks like a seal. And it was they were all eating a dead seal, and we were like, uh let's go back to the rocks. Yeah. I don't think I've ever told this one before. When I was a little kid, we went to uh I, you know, I used to go to Provincetown all the time, which is off the Cape, yeah, the end of Cape Cod.
+
+[12:14] Yeah. And uh, so this is like I don't know, this is like 19 like 82, 19 like 82 or 3 or something like that. It has to be before 1983. So we were at Provincetestown, there's this jetty that goes uh across uh after you go, you know, past the main part of town. There's this jetty, and we used to go out on it and we would go down in the jetty, and it was like periwinkles and mussels, I mean so many mussels and periwinkles.
+
+[12:41] So we used to just gather like like stockpots full of them. And then we would just you know, boil them off, and we'd sit there with the periwinkles and uh and a safety pin. You know, the muscles you would eat, but the safety pin you pop off the operculum there, the you know, the trapdoor, and you just pop like so much butter periwinkles, which I actually I like those little ones better than the big welks, you know what I mean? Like, but they're pain in the butt. You can never get full, you know what I mean?
+
+[13:06] Yeah, never. Never. Anyway, so and then uh we've we were gathering it once, and uh we've been doing it for a long time. Guy walks up and he goes, You see that pipe there? And we're like, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[13:18] He's like, that's the sewage from the hotel. And we're like, uh we didn't die. You know, pulled in Nietzsche, whatever, didn't kill us made as stronger. So, you know. There it is.
+
+[13:30] Uh all right, so uh after the fried rice, what happened, Quinn? Okay, we did fried rice, basically carrots. I did a Kling Powinspired Brussels fruit. So what inspired it? Well, the sauce.
+
+[13:49] Okay. So can you go? So soy sauce, cook cooking wine, dark vinegar, little sugar, um, peppercorn, and then instead of fried peanuts, we had local hazelnuts that we fried off. Uh how much did you parkook the Brussels sprouts before you did the toss-off and all the stuff so that it didn't burn? Um you know they were small.
+
+[14:18] I think we maybe just split them and stir-fried them. From raw. Yeah. Okay. Okay.
+
+[14:28] I don't know. You're taking your taking your life from your hands there. You know what I mean? It's like the domestic stove. So we're not like blasting them on a jet engine.
+
+[14:41] Okay. Yeah, I'm just thinking about it, because like every time you when you whenever you go soy sauce and you try to cook veg a hundred percent from a soy sauce thing, if it's not going full wet, as soon as it goes too much, it's too damn much. You know what I mean? Yeah, but we just finished for the sauce. We just stir-fried the roots, throw in the throw in the um hazelnut.
+
+[15:04] Mm-hmm. Peppercorn oil. We made a little bit of the peppercorn oil, and then we finish with the sauce at the end. Sichuan peppercorn or peppercorn peppercorn. And you like that better than just buying the high grade Sichuan peppercorn uh stuff from what is it, 50 50 hertz.com or whatever it is?
+
+[15:24] That's McGee's favorite Sichuan pepper oil. 50 hertz that time. I had the I had the corns. Yeah, but this person, I mean, um this sounds like something you would do, Quinn. This person sources, he like goes to where it is sources like the best like Sichuan pepper like varieties, and then makes a very, very high grade oil, which they only sell fresh.
+
+[15:49] And so when they run out, they run out. Like they don't store it over over time, and it's not like just a compounded oil like the like the filth that I buy and use on a regular basis. I've never had this stuff but McGee says it's really good. I'm a little mad that they call it because you know how in in uh in Europe and I'm sure also in Asia they think that the sensation of a Sichuan the you know the mala sensation they think that it it vibrates at 50 hertz right 50 cycles per second. And I'm like I highly doubt it.
+
+[16:20] What I think is is that like I bet you if you tested a bunch of Americans it would vibrate at 60 hertz because it's just something that we're used to hearing and feeling right you're used to getting electrocuted at 60 hertz in our country. You're not used to getting electrocuted at 50. I think a lot of people aren't used to getting electrocuted. So I think well I don't know I don't know. Joe's with me.
+
+[16:41] Joe's been electrocuted more than once are you are you and the people you associate with I mean I know Nastasia's desperate afraid of electrocute uh getting electrocuted it's not electrocuted right you just don't like getting zapped right well yeah I think that's the same no zapped and electrocuted no electrocuted you die. Besides I mean electric shock yeah I think most people the m the worst shock I ever got that was actually dangerous was I got blasted back by 400 volts once. Hurt oh my god it hurt this is why kids you don't so when I was a kid I used to collect old oscilloscopes and my dad only so I was like reaching into the back of an old oscilloscope, and there's really high voltages in the back of like that's why you don't break apart microwaves, you don't break apart old television sets because there's high voltage in there. A lot of vacuum tubes. Yeah.
+
+[17:39] So I reached back into one that was plugged into the wall because some of these old oscilloscopes had bays that you could pull in and out because they were totally modular because you know you didn't just throw them away and buy new ones like we do nowadays. And it was like boom! I just got blasted back. I was like, never felt anything like that in my life. And my dad was like, Oh, yeah, there's like 400 and chance volts back there.
+
+[18:00] That could kill you. I'm like, thanks, Dad. Thanks. Thanks for the postgame. You know what I mean?
+
+[18:06] Oh, you got oh my god. I have so many Joe's showing me a pair of pliers that clearly went around a live wire. Oh, yeah, baby. That's the classic half moon live wire clip action going on. It's impressive.
+
+[18:17] That hurt. Oh, oh, you mean you even got that it arced over from a handle? Oh, I got I got hurt a couple times. Damn. I didn't re I didn't recognize what I was doing.
+
+[18:26] Again, back to back. Oh, that sucks. That sucks. Usually, like stuff like that, when you get blasted, you're good for at least two years. You know what I mean?
+
+[18:35] And then you're like, and then you cut the cut corners again, a boom. So, okay, I'll tell this one because this is one of Dax's favorite stories. So when I was in third grade, I you know was reading about insulators, right? But you don't know a lot about electricity when you're in third grade, right? So I'm in third grade, and you know what?
+
+[18:55] When you're a kid, they always tell you, don't uh stick your fingers in electric sockets, as though you can stick your finger in electric socket. Whose finger is so flat and thin that you could stick it into an electric socket, you know, you can't. Uh so I was like, I told this kid, I forget who it was, maybe it was George. I forget, forget their last name. Anyway, I was like, yo, I didn't talk like that back then.
+
+[19:18] I was in third grade, but I was like, yo, I could stick a paperclip in this electric socket and not get electrocuted. And he was like, No, you can't. My dad says that'll kill you. And I'm like, your dad's wrong. Your dad doesn't understand insulators.
+
+[19:33] And he's like, he's like, you can't. I was like, I can. You can't. Okay. So I took a paper clip during like, you know, in-class recess, opened up into a U shape, took the teacher's masking tape, was like rack mac masking tape around it.
+
+[19:48] I was like, this is an insulator. And I go, boop, I stick it right into the electric socket. Remember, it's this old fused building. Boom! Like I the entire floor went out.
+
+[20:00] Right? There was a huge char mark around the electric socket, and the masking tape was on fire. I I was a little shocked. But I turned around to him, I go, see? Not electrocuted.
+
+[20:17] Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. So when you know a little bit, that's the problem. You know what I mean?
+
+[20:24] It's a miracle I didn't die over the years. I'll say, yeah. Uh anywho. All right. So uh anything, anything else on your miracle steak Brussels sprout day?
+
+[20:33] They were non-burned. First of all, why don't you you have gas in your in your uh in your place, Quinn, or no? No, not at all. Oh, fudge. How close is uh have you ever considered uh getting one of those uh outdoor things so that they can do the super high high flame crap outside?
+
+[20:52] We do. All right. Do you have like a walk burner for outside? It was not it was not in the carbon. I see, I see.
+
+[21:00] Okay. Uh any any anyone else? Anyone else got some fun uh holiday uh food uh experiences? No. It was uh it was my it was my mom's 70th birthday.
+
+[21:15] And uh I was staying with her for the week and we woke up and I said I want to take you to brunch, and she said, I want something special. I was like, okay, what's that? What day of the week is it again? And this should tell uh it was on a Friday. This should tell you how uh I was raised.
+
+[21:33] And I was like, Well, what's what's special for your mom? And she was like, let's go to Denny's. Oh. I haven't been to Denny's in a long time, but did she go for Moons over my Hammy? She ordered from she proudly ordered something weird from the senior menu.
+
+[21:47] Oh, she could. Oh my god. Is that the cutoff nowadays at Denny's because we're living longer? You now can't order from the senior menu until you're 70. No, I I don't think she'd been to Denny's in that long, you know.
+
+[21:59] She was like, oh, I can do the thing. Really? I haven't been to Denny's in a long, long, long, long time. Last time I was at Denny's, I was relatively soon after I went to college. They had an all you can eat thing, and our uh our server was pregnant, and she said the amount of food you're eating is making me sick to my stomach.
+
+[22:19] And I was like, Wow. I was like, what you need is it what you need is a different job. Please bring me more pancakes. You know what I mean? Those those things are always a scam because they just start bringing you the stuff slower and slower and slower.
+
+[22:34] You're like, I'm gonna finish the whole plate. Just bring it. You know what I mean? Uh anyway. I was just watching Maholland Drive, and uh Denny's is referred to as Winkies.
+
+[22:43] Winkies? That's the fake Denny's fake Denny's in Mall and Drive. Winkies. Winkies. So that's like a clock cross between uh yeah, wee winks or piggly wigglies and Denny's.
+
+[22:53] So what did you order there, Jack? What do you have uh at the at the Denny's? Oh, I've uh Grand Slam, whatever the Grand Slam breakfast. The thing where basically they give you one of everything, you know. Like pancakes, hash browns, eggs, bacon sausage.
+
+[23:07] All right. So now, as a grown person, how are their hash browns? Oh, bad. Like flaccid. Not even like like undercooked somehow.
+
+[23:20] Oh, God. Yeah, which is like kind of the worst sin when it comes to hash browns for me. Listen, nobody wants an undercooked. I can see it now. It's like half watery, half greasy, blonde with still some white patches on it.
+
+[23:34] You cut into it, it breaks that weird way, then an undercooked hash brown breaks. You say to yourself, maybe ketchup, maybe ketchup will help. And you're like, no. No, it won't. This sucks.
+
+[23:45] It can't save the texture. It's like seltzer that's gone flat. Maybe I'll add a lemon. No. It's not gonna work.
+
+[23:51] It's bad product now. Can't be saved. You know what I mean? Well, you could save seltzer by recarbonating it and you could you could send the hash brown back, put it back in the dang deep fryer. That'd save it.
+
+[24:01] That's right. Yeah. Anyway. Uh well about what about you, Stas? You got anything?
+
+[24:07] Any any uh holiday holiday cheer? Uh my parents ate tomalies as they do. Ooh. Now I've asked you this before, but I can never remember what your family's masa to to filling ratio is like. Oh, they put a ton of filling in.
+
+[24:27] So that's why they're really good. So you must hate, hate, hate, hate tamales you get out. Oh, yeah. I think it's a scam. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[24:38] I cause I I think there's a l I think there's a lot of people, right, who are like, no, it's just a little finger of filling, and then the rest of the flavor is the sauce on the masa. They don't talk like that, I'm sure. I'm sure nobody talks like that. But for you, you grew up the opposite. You grew up with like mega fill.
+
+[24:53] I think I would like that. Yeah. I've never I don't think I've ever had a mega fill tamale. I'll send you some. They're my parents made like 300, so we have a bunch of frozen.
+
+[25:04] And are they uh are like a pork, beef, mix? What what do you what do you guys do? Pork and beef and then green chili pork. Ooh, green chili pork. Like green chili like hatch style, like New Mexico chili, or like some sort of California thing that I don't understand?
+
+[25:22] Like a California thing. That sounds good. I'm this is I'm I'm pro. I'm pro. So then what do you do?
+
+[25:29] Like for your d do you get them to freeze them down and mail them to you frozen and they thaw on the flight over and then you can just throw them in the steamer and and get going. And you and you have two fried eggs with them. Oh, that sounds real good. Do you serve any sauces with the fried eggs? Or do you just make them runny so that they bleed over it?
+
+[25:49] Runny and then chiluva. Uh this sounds good. This sounds delicious. Now is the does the whatever sauce or whatever stuff in the filling of spice, does it bleed out and and color the masa, or is the masa still straight, masa colored when it comes out? Still masa.
+
+[26:13] And uh and do uh do you use like traditional like corn husk situation? What do you what are they wrapped in? Yes, corn husk, and then my mom puts a bow around the ones that are like different, you know. Different meaning words. Differentiate between like no between pork and beef.
+
+[26:29] Okay. Because I know people who were like, I put the bow around the one I made for you because you can't eat the ones that we like. So it's not like that. No. It's not bow means bad.
+
+[26:41] All right. No. I like that. Because you don't know. You know what my grandma used to do?
+
+[26:47] When so my grandma, whenever you would get she would always buy chocolates, filled chocolates. I don't think filled chocolates are so weird. This is why I have a weird relationship with filled chocolates, right? And she didn't have a secret Dakota ring like your mom does for her tamales. So what she would do, my grandma, who was also San Bernardino, to give you an idea.
+
+[27:05] So imagine this is San Bernardino in the early 70s. She would pick up every single chocolate, stick her finger through the bottom of the chocolate to see what the filling is, put it right back in the put it right back in the container. That's criminal. Yeah. So it looks you're like, oh, grandma.
+
+[27:25] And then you pull pull one up and you're gonna eat it. You're like, ah. You know, and that was in the early 70s, all the filled chocolates were like weird, like greens and oranges and that reminds me of my sister. She used to do that with the out. Do you remember after eight mints?
+
+[27:39] Oh hell yeah. Those thin mints? Yeah. They she'd bite the bottom, suck out the mint, then put it back into its little sleeve, and then when any person would pull up a little uh, you know, after eight mint tab, had a half-eaten that's Fed. It was weird psychopath.
+
+[27:58] You still talk to your sister? Yeah, yeah. She she she she used to like crush the bread in the bread aisle at the grocery store. What? She would she had the blah the best time.
+
+[28:07] Just go and squish everything to into her palm. It was pretty amazing. What? Oh my god. That is demolished.
+
+[28:18] Wait, wait. This is when she was old enough to know better, or this is when she's in a stroller. She would know better. No, no, it was out of the out of the stroller. We were like either in and out of the grocery cart itself or just that's what happens when your mother raises you without sugar in the house.
+
+[28:33] Yeah. Oh man. Yeah. Hey, uh, I can't remember when we used to do it, whether Stas, whether you were with me at the time, because it was back when we used to do stuff in the amphitheater, but we used to smash bread in the vacuum machine all the time. So I remember that.
+
+[28:50] Yeah. So like we would do it for the students, right? To show them that, you know, uh pressure in a vacuum and how certain things get crushed, like vegetables. So like, you know, people would um if you take like if you make like a uh a ratatouille mixture, but you don't cook it, right? Hit put it in the vacuum machine, sh everything gets smashed.
+
+[29:08] You know what I mean? Because it's all porous. So we would stick wonder bread in there and it would be like you know, like down to nothing. But we what we used to do for kids is we would we would um make we would decrust it because the crust doesn't crush as much, right? We would decrust it, we would make PB and J's and then put them in the vacuum machine, super flatten them and then fry them.
+
+[29:30] Oh they were they were they were damn they were damn good. They were damn good, I have to say. You know what I mean? Yeah, but we'd have to go by real wonder because uh they were like, would you like a pullman pullman loaf pandemic? I'm like, nah, I want wonder.
+
+[29:46] If I'd wanted your like Frenchy fake wonder bread, I would say, yo, can I have some fake French eat Wonder Bread? You know what I mean? Totally. Yeah, yeah. I don't want your substance or body.
+
+[29:58] Come on. What is this? Lack of texture. Yes. Yes.
+
+[30:03] Uh oh man. Now all I'm thinking about is Nastasia's family's tamales. Now is that Christmas? Christmas morning? New Year's?
+
+[30:10] New Year's Day. Which one of those sitches? It's Christmas Eve. And then it's like whenever and any time you want one after that. Because they're so they're really good.
+
+[30:24] They're really good. I love having like good leftovers like that for a long time. That's money. You know what I miss for Christmas Eve? I haven't I haven't been to my mom's in Christmas Eve in years and years and years, but she always does the fish.
+
+[30:39] She always does the fishes. You know what I mean? I miss it. I love that stuff. You know, I cook salt cod, you know, not as much as I'd like, but I cook enough salt fish, you know.
+
+[30:52] But uh I don't do the classic like soak, you know, for days and then just like you know, quick bring up bacala, like Christmas Eve style baccala very often, but I kind of miss that too. I miss the seafood. Yeah, seafood, seafood Christmas easy. I mean Christmas is the best. I was never really into the baccala, but the the the the the she would my mother would do this um room temperature calamari.
+
+[31:18] It was phenomenal. Like uh like uh just like uh like a salad, like like cooked and then tossed in oil. Then oil and a little bit, a little bit of vinegar, and there was always red and green peppers in it. It was an onion, it was deli or scallion, it was delicious. Of course, you know, linguinian clams, shrimp, and then for uh, you know, then the next day we'd do monogot.
+
+[31:35] Yeah? Yeah. But monogot was the best. I always uh my mom always used to make one of the things on the Christmas Eve was this uh uh anchovy pasta. And instead of cheese, right, you breadcrumbs.
+
+[31:49] You know what I mean? Oh my god, I could eat so much of that. Like, oh, you'd eat so much. I could still see the big book. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[31:55] It's so simple. It's like, you know, it's it's it's people really have those types of uh aversions to making you know simple dishes like that. Look in the fridge, what do you have? That's what's gonna go in it, and that's it. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[32:06] Anchovy pasta. I haven't made that myself in a long time. That makes a anchovy pasta. Nastasia thinks that I don't like pasta. But uh that's not true, in fact.
+
+[32:16] Why was it that you always used to say I didn't like pasta, Nastasia? I don't know. You never ordered it. I thought you didn't like it because you didn't want to feel full or something. Well, it's not like pasta makes me feel full.
+
+[32:32] Okay. Well, I don't know. Well, I feel so the thing is, right, is like uh when Nastasi and I were like working side by side every day at the French Culinary Institute, my kids were young. Oh yeah. Yeah, and uh and so you know, one of my things was is that I was gonna be home to have dinner with the kids.
+
+[32:53] I wasn't gonna I wasn't gonna go out for dinner or stay so late that the kids would have to eat without me. I would go home, cook them a meal, and then uh if I needed to, I would go out again afterwards when they didn't care anymore. And so Nastasi was always like, make pasta. And I think when I would always resist for some reason, and then she was like, It's because you hate pasta. I was like, No.
+
+[33:16] No, no, it's because at the FDI you wouldn't eat pasta for lunch. I thought that was weird. Oh, oh yeah. Well, I mean, look, I don't like overly watery tomato sauce. You know what I mean?
+
+[33:29] It's like tomato sauce if it doesn't stick or gravy. My mom made some, my mom made the if it doesn't, if it doesn't have the right texture, then it's just like soup and noodles. If I want soup and noodles, I'll get different soup. Is it nice? Is a uh exactly because I well, you you know, I and for our listeners out there, you know, there's a bit of clicking sometimes in in uh on our stream, and it's usually a ballpoint.
+
+[33:54] Today it's an exacto blade. Yeah, uh, sorry, I'm a fidgeter. You know what I never learned to do? All the kids at debate in high school could do the pen flip. Can any of you guys do that?
+
+[34:04] Twirling pen? Very poorly. I could never do it. They would just sit there and keep doing it. I'm like, show off, jerk.
+
+[34:10] My fat fingers can't do that. I also can't type on my phone properly. You know what I mean? Yeah. All right.
+
+[34:19] Uh I brought uh I brought some of my Christmas cookies. Hopefully, yeah, they're a little thawed. So these are these are two of my they're not the Christmas cookies that are like my great great-grandmothers because those ones that you kind of need to have been raised with them to like them because they're kind of they're chocolatey, but they're dry. You know what I mean? But these, if you guys want to try them, these are my uh the so rich or li are like the Italian almond cookies, but then I started last year making them also with pecans.
+
+[34:46] So it's the same recipe but with pecans. And these are a super easy recipe for anyone uh to make. Um when I make them with almond, I add uh zest. I add like lemon and orange zest usually and some almond uh extract. But uh I'll give you the recipe real quick.
+
+[35:04] You take uh where is it? You take uh should I give them for a full pound? Full pound, right? So a pound of nuts. Uh don't have them like I don't don't get them like raw is fine, you know, don't get them like too salty or too overcooked or it's gonna get ruined when it's done, right?
+
+[35:20] Uh so either pecans or almonds, like a pound, and then um where am I? Uh like uh 302 or 300 uh of uh if you do it with pecans, I would use light brown sugar with almonds, I would use white sugar, and then uh like a half teaspoon of baking powder and like uh five and a half grams of salt, and you just throw uh throw all that stuff into uh your food processor, your cuisinart, and hit it, pulse it. You want to grind it really fine, but not so fine that it turns to a paste. So let it rest every once in a while if it starts to heat up and just neat neat neat until it's real fine. And then just crack in like uh four egg whites.
+
+[36:05] Meet, meet, meet, meet, meet, meet, meet, meet, meet, meet, meat, processes it. Remember, you can add some zest if you like for flavor, some almond extract if it's almonds. Uh I don't add any of that to stuff to pecans, maybe some more zest. Then the trick is now rest it in your fridge for like however long you want. A couple hours overnight, you know, whatever.
+
+[36:22] You're letting it all kind of hydrate and seep together. Then take a uh um a doser, like a 25 or 22 uh mil doser, which is I think like a number 36 or something like this, and just go scoop into powdered sugar. Scoop, scoop, scoop, scoop, drop the balls into powdered sugar, roll them around, put them on uh a tray, flatten them, right? Let them sit for like an hour, two hours, whatever, to dry out the outside, so you get the nice outside of it. Push them together a little bit to try to enhance the cracking on the outside, like you see, throw them in the oven at like meh, like 350 or something like this, 325 uh for like 15 minutes.
+
+[36:59] Keep them blonde. Let them come out and uh yeah, they're good, right? Did you have you have a pecan or an almond job? Uh like 302, 300, like light brown or white, depending. Did you have an almond or pecan?
+
+[37:12] I believe mine was pecan. Do you like pecans? I hope. Love pecans. Yeah, pecan is a good move, man.
+
+[37:16] That's America. If you can't get hickories, pecan is our is our other nut. I wish I had got, you know what? I didn't buy, I looked it up. Uh, because I took we had those fresh pecans here, they were so good, right?
+
+[37:27] But uh I forget the name of the variety that everyone said I should try. Elcot, Elcot. Then but I I forgot to order some. Speaking of ordering, what can you what what what is what have you found on the internet for us, John? Tirant and mustard.
+
+[37:39] Yeah, well, now say it like 20, because you can't spell it's unspellable. What do you mean? It's an unspellable word. Tirantan Verlant mustard. So Tirantin T-I-E-R-N-T-Y-N.
+
+[37:52] Can't be spelled. All right. Um Verlent V-E-R. Listen, there's another one. Tirant Ferdinand.
+
+[37:59] Yeah. No. No. No. No.
+
+[38:02] Discontents from back in the days split off. You gotta stick with the the original. Um, Joe Rosenthal was the one who showed me the site, uh, foodbelgium.com, and you can get little jars of it there. But you gotta it's $40 shipping. Well, we'll get this though.
+
+[38:17] So I look up one, John's like, hey, you could order this mustard. I'm like, great. So I I sign up online and like I'm like, okay, I'm gonna get one jar. Six six euros or whatever it is. Great.
+
+[38:27] What's the shipping? 40 euros. No, thanks. And so then, like, but today he looked it up 10 jars, also 40 euros. Yeah.
+
+[38:35] Yeah. So you need to gather like your closest buddies who live in your similar zip code area, like within car distance of you, within within happy to go visit them distance, split up the order with them, and then it's more reasonable. Sure. You don't want to buy in bulk because you want well, you'll eat it quickly. You'll eat it quickly.
+
+[38:53] Keep it in the fridge. Mm-hmm. And I saw the way they packed it. She packs it like she does it a store. So she can't, for whatever reason, she can't find a j a glass jar with a non-metal lid, which makes sense, right?
+
+[39:06] So she puts like like plastic film. Plastic film over the jar and then screws the metal down because the the woman who runs this store. Now she's remember, she's like the uh what's it called? She's the standard bearer for a mustard that's been in constant production in this exact same facility since 1790. Yep.
+
+[39:24] Or 80, whatever it is. She o she doesn't ever let metal touch her mustard. When she sells it to you, if you're an American, she looks you dead in the eye and says, Don't use metal spoons with my mustard. And you're like, okay. I don't really think it makes a difference.
+
+[39:42] Yeah, probably. No. I mean, yeah, no, I've used metal spoons and my heads to get that stuff out. Yeah. Don't tell her.
+
+[39:48] No, never. She'll never sell to you again. Exactly. Anyway. Uh yeah.
+
+[39:53] So there's that. Okay. Uh what else? We got anything else? We good?
+
+[39:57] We good? We got some questions? Oh, by the way, uh, if in the 20 seconds, yeah, it's 20 minutes, but if i if you're in time left you uh want to call in, call in too, 917-410 1507. That's 917-410-1507. Uh you can do that if you're a Patreon member.
+
+[40:11] John, I'll talk more about it. By the way, I've heard that we haven't yet set up uh the combustion engineering thing, but we're gonna work on that uh very soon for our Patreon members. You want to tell them uh what goes on? Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Um it's gonna be a good year.
+
+[40:26] We're gonna get a lot of awesome guests lined up. Uh you get a bunch of perks with the Patreon membership access to the Discord uh access to discounts with people that we have on the show most awesome Kitchen Arts and Letters um prioritize questions getting answered just a whole bunch of great things so bunch of different levels that you can sign up uh patreon.com slash cooking issues and also if you haven't yet give this podcast a good five star rating wherever you listen to your podcast from yeah even if you hate us give us five stars yeah please yeah um so listen and the the Discord is a great place to organize uh mustard group well remember you gotta do it by location because then otherwise you gotta trans ship nobody wants a trans ship uh also like if you're worried about Discord because you've heard what a rancid terrible place it is our corner of Discord is not like that like our Discord people are are are friendly to each other. It's ranted in our in our way it's not ranted the people are helpful to each other. We're not mean to adjust I'm joking. Yeah they don't know that they're not on the Discord yet anyway we're a supportive community at least to other people does anyone have a marmite hookup can't you just buy it?
+
+[41:36] Yeah yeah I'm looking for a particular one like uh there's a yellow brick road Elton John my wife is dying for it I don't know what yeah do you hear that people anyone that can hear this if you have if anyone has a uh as an inn with the Elton John foundation with marmite there's supposedly this yellow brick road marmite that my wife is dying for. And what's the difference between this and your standard difference. It's just a it's just a limited edition. That might be a collector's item thing. I'm not sure.
+
+[42:03] So it's not like Lay's potato chips where there's a million different flavors. I just had the cumin lamb kebab Lay's potato chips. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You just reminded me. I just had uh um um uh excuse me, I'm not with Mexican street corn um dusted almonds.
+
+[42:17] How were they? Delicious, yeah. Unbelievable. Huh. Huh.
+
+[42:21] Just the perfect amount of lime and everything. I mean, it was really I was pretty amazed. You know what I've never had? Why don't they why don't they do a street corn corn nut? That would be good, a street corn corn nut.
+
+[42:33] Would be good. Or Doritos. Yeah. Have you had, okay. So have you had the um, have you had the the uh the Philippine garlic um corn nuts?
+
+[42:45] I forget what they're called. They're real good, but that one you could like maybe throw some cheese powder on, get close. You know what I mean? That'd be good. Those things are good, real garlicky, and they have little little pieces of fried garlic husk in the in them with them.
+
+[43:02] The word is similar to chicharron, but not anyway. They're good. They good. Uh oh, by the way, Stas, you'll appreciate this. I'm gonna I'm gonna go see Sweeney Todd tomorrow night.
+
+[43:16] Broadly cast. I was supposed to see that. Because, you know, I like I like people that get you know murdered when they're getting their haircuts, you know. Who's in it? Josh Grobin is the grobe.
+
+[43:28] Yeah, it's the Grobenator. He's about to be done. Yep. Uh I hear he's really, really good. I mean, that's not like Groben's normal style of music is not what I normally listen to.
+
+[43:39] You know what I mean? Nastasia and and I, we're more boobles, we're more Mikey boobles, not really. But like, remember when we we had our place on Eldritch Street, like the Christmas quote unquote Christmas radio was a hundred percent booblay a hundred percent of the time. All boobles all the time. We're like, oh my god, the boobles.
+
+[43:58] But like, so I kind of grouped, even though they're not the same. But I hear he's really good. I hear the I hear Grobin's uh really good. I don't know who's playing Angela Lansbury, but I wish we had some sort of way to get them to include in the playbill a meat pie recipe. It'd be amazing.
+
+[44:19] Would be neat. Yeah. Stas, you've seen that show before, right? I mean, like, or like on TV or whatever. The movie, yeah.
+
+[44:27] Yeah, great, right? I mean, the lines in that movie. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we remind each other of the characters, right? I mean, mainly Sweeney Todd.
+
+[44:37] You know? Anyway. The the uh or the uh what's it called? Well, he serves a dark and a vengeful god. He never forgotten, he never forgave.
+
+[44:45] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the none of their souls, uh, you know, may have been saved. They went to their maker impeccably shaved.
+
+[44:51] Yeah, by Sweeney, Sweeney Todd, Demon Barbara, Fleet Street. Uh my mom's at the Dave, my mom's at the post office now sending you to Molly. Oh my god. I love it. I love it.
+
+[45:02] I love it. Hopefully, not with some tomato plants, because that would ruin it. Nastasia's mom would send tomato plants to her, but like loose. In wet newspaper, yeah. Yeah, so they would just it would just like she would open it and it's just like newspaper and potting soil and like bits of green, pretty much, right, Sas.
+
+[45:26] Yeah, and it infected the entire community garden. Yeah, so that well, there was that because there's a Russian lady next to you, right? She's like, Where did all these mites come from? And you're like, don't know. Eat me.
+
+[45:41] Don't know. Oh, look, we're being fish bowled by an actual cute person. Little girl. Uh all right. Sargon writes in, hey Sargon.
+
+[45:50] Uh how do I make my drinks taste bready? Think muffin. Bready, bread. Uh the easiest way to do that is to soak your booze, uh, soak your soak your muffin in uh booze, right? So just break your muffin up into little pieces, buy yourself uh, well, in the best of scenarios, get a um in the best of scenarios, get yourself a uh uh two-ton, four-ton press, right?
+
+[46:17] Barring that, buy uh buy uh an 80 um micron uh filter bag, like a nut milk bag, and uh soak your stuff for like however long you want, a couple hours is usually sufficient, but do it overnight, right? And then put it in the nut milk bag and squeeze the ever-loving life out of it to get all of the product back out. The problem with muffins or any bread that contains a lot of fat is after you squeeze it out, you have to give it time to settle. The fat will rise to the top, and then you can kind of siphon off the non-fatty stuff. Or uh barring that, if you don't mind the fat in your drink, you can emulsify the fat into the liquor using Xanthan Arabic mix, right?
+
+[46:58] And then the fat is actually emulsified into the drink. Uh but it works really well with also bread, right? So, you know, classically you'd use a high flavored bread like a pumper nickel uh or something like this, and you can get uh very good flavors that way. Uh another way of uh is to if you just want kind of more toasted, but not an actual flavor of a bread, is uh if you make a two-to-one simple syrup and use um uh diamonium phosphate, which yeast nutrient, you're adding a protein to the sugar, you get intense Maillard bready reactions if you pressure cook the syrup for an hour or so it comes out like dark black, and that'll give like a bready cooked uh brown sugar caramel note to drinks as well. Were these good suggestions?
+
+[47:43] Did I is this good? Yeah, so I mean more your field of expertise, but yeah, it sounds good. All right. Uh uh Lord Nabu, I feel so bad. Lord Nabu wanted to cook goose on Christmas, and we didn't give low quality individuals.
+
+[47:56] We didn't give them any good advice, but I want to know how your goose came down. I mean, I I gave the snarky response of the best goose is duck. So the best way to cook a goose is to buy a duck instead. But that's kind of a bad result. Look, somewhere there has to be someone that sells a really good goose.
+
+[48:15] Yeah. Is it real thin and bony? Because every goose I've ever bought is like super bony. It makes me wonder why Tiny Tim wanted that thing. You know what I mean?
+
+[48:26] I'm like this is what you're like pining for? Jeez, Louise. You know what I mean? Like, I'm sure in England they must have some like amazing goose, but I've never seen a good goose here. We got a call?
+
+[48:42] Caller you're on the air. Probably someone telling me I'm wrong about geese. Maybe it's Lord Nabu. I'm I'm not saying I'm not saying you're wrong. This is Patrick Collins from Brooklyn.
+
+[48:50] How you do it? Uh-huh. It is a gee, it is a response to the the geese, though, is that I've had a few attempted geese on Christmas that were middling to pretty good, at least as leftovers, but the response was don't do it on Christmas. But September twenty n September twenty ninth is Nickel Mass Day, however you pronounce it. We're traditionally nickel batch gives the goose weirder mickle mass, like a Michael Mass.
+
+[49:14] Yeah, yeah. Um, and you're supposed that's a traditional day for eating goose. So designated suggesting that maybe uh people cook goose on that day instead. But maybe if there's a uh Patreon-wide uh goose goose cooking thing this year for some participation because there's some secret here, it's just harder, hard to unlock compared to other things. Let's do it this way.
+
+[49:41] Let's let me ask you this and see since you have recent experience cooking geese. So uh when you cook uh the thing about turkeys, right, uh is that they have relatively uh good meat yield, right? And they feed a relatively large number of people meat. Ducks really a duck is a two-person situation. You can't really feed more than two people off a duck if they actually want meat.
+
+[50:06] If they want like a tiny bit of meat and you're gonna feed them a bunch of other stuff, then of course you can feed more, depending on how how it's served. But a goose, I'm not sure of its size, but its meat to bone ratio is worse even than duck, right? So on a on a per weight basis, how many people are you feeding with a goose? Uh this is I would say like a decent sized goose, which I can't remember the weight, which is sort of their standard goose, probably four people. But I think that that the conceptually what the I wanted to cook it whole with Cantonese style without the same flavorings, but then use it over multiple meals too, so small, small amounts.
+
+[50:46] There's something there. I mean, it seems Hong Kong has grape goose, which I'm never I've never uh tasted. But um injecting it, brining it, injection brinding it with some goose stalk before, I don't think I'd had in high enough salinity. Uh the time I did it, that improved it a lot. Well okay so let me ask you this.
+
+[51:08] Were you were you trying to get did you find some way to get leg, thigh and breast all working together. Or would did you aim at breast or aim at thigh. I was aiming at thigh because the thigh is the thigh at breast where breast is good is bad. And I think that there's like I think Daniel Gritzer has something saying that you know well cooked duck is all uh well done duck is also good. I don't know if well done goose is also good.
+
+[51:38] It's it's it's it's it's slightly different. So there's something to unlock here but you know biggest suggestion is just kick make it a separate thing from Christmas. So you're you know it's gonna require years of experimentation I think for non goose cooks. The one the one recommendation is the um the Confucius style stuff that you can get frozen on Chinatown and Division Street much better than um which Schlitz which makes most of the ducks in the US I mean sorry Schlitz the beer people Schlitz no different but it's in I think Nebraska or something or North Dakota. But it's leaner and like 'cause I I've bought the other geese are from D'Artagnan and and and a farm.
+
+[52:18] Yeah. And they were just they were just too fatty for for any sort of real use beyond making fat. So these were this rendered maybe like a quarter cup. It'll drain your bank account though. That D'Artagnan goose will definitely drain your bank account.
+
+[52:32] So if you really need to spend a lot of money for tax purposes, you know. Uh so sort of the opposite. So I'll I'll I'll send in the liquid the liquid well the liquid goose fat to the IRS. Yeah. Uh anyway, that's my two cents on goose.
+
+[52:46] Wait, hold up, hold up. So the other thing I hate about this, see what you think is like uh like duck and goose to a similar extent is not fun to fabricate before it's cooked because it's so greasy. You know what I mean? Like so, like I remember once I tried to rip the legs out and do a pre-cook on the legs and then put them back in and then aim at breast, but it's just a nightmare working with, you know what I mean. Yeah, it's not it's not fun.
+
+[53:13] I mean, like all these things, the better versions. I haven't seen roast goose in in any Chinatown in New York, but I'm sure it's available. I feel like duck, it's honestly if you're going with the whole thing, it's probably better just to buy a duck, you know, at um uh from from a Cantonese duck. And it and that those flavors fit most cuisine, honestly. It doesn't taste off if you're serving it as the context of you know, quote unquote Western meal.
+
+[53:38] Right. And well, and an American palates are tuned are not tuned to like tough meat, right? So if you get like a goose that might have good flavor but is tough, it's just very hard for us to enjoy it, right? Whereas the ducks, even in Chinatown that you get in this country are relatively tender compared to you know, ducks that you would get elsewhere. They're just tender as tender as hell, because we can't, as a culture somehow wrap our minds around anything other than meat that's easy to chew.
+
+[54:09] You know what I mean? It's weird. I mean, yeah I'm not saying I'm immune to it because I'm not immune to it, you know, because it's the way I was raised, but it is an interesting problem. Whereas every goose I've had is a big thing. Well, and you're usually eating the roast, the roast one, anything roast in a Chinese context with some bone on it too.
+
+[54:26] Right. So I feel like the bone, dealing with the bone is almost a distraction, any texture to the meat because you've uh you're you're dealing with the whole piece on on the bone, even when it's sliced. I feel like that's part of it. I don't I don't really know. I don't have enough, you know.
+
+[54:40] Yeah experience beyond eating it. If I'm not sure. If I did that style of uh cooking where I just took a cleaver and made perfect cuts of meat with the bones in the in the thigh and leg area, I would get run out of my house. I would say I I would say that that the the buy you know, buying buying any of the whole roast birds for any holiday thing in Chinatown is I did it. I d I got a turkey in addition to the regular turkey for Thanksgiving, and it was a very nice supplemental turkey just to have that Cantonese style one next to your yeah, your American turkey.
+
+[55:16] I like that term, supplemental turkey. Styles, we gotta use that sometime. You gotta have supplemental turkey. Well, that's why I have to go buy turkeys whenever I come home from Thanksgiving because I won't although my mom gave me a bunch of leftovers this year, so I I can't talk smack like I normally do. But anyway, all right.
+
+[55:35] Well, uh thanks for your thanks for your goose uh your goose knowledge. This is why I like people call in with some information, it's useful. You know? Anyway, appreciate it. From a balloon knot, I hate tying knots in balloons.
+
+[55:49] I hate 'em. It's the worst. Oh my God. Especially like it's like a birthday party and you're doing one after the thing at the thing at the thing, and then you you get that weird red mark around your fingertip. And but but but you know what?
+
+[56:02] No one ever appreciates it. I hate balloons. Really? Because when they pop the stuff everywhere. No, uh it's uh it's uh i i it's it's the it's the the anticipation of it popping that I'm scared of or frightened.
+
+[56:13] Yeah. What about that noise? That's a cool noise. Yeah. You know what?
+
+[56:20] I've never gone on, I've never I've never gone clip. I've never hated the knot so much that I'm paying for clips. What's the hell with that? You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[56:28] Yeah. Uh Balloon Knot writes in. I've learned a technique to remove oxidized fish fat flavors from liquids by heating an iron rod until it's red hot and then plunging it into the offending liquid. That's another term for us, right? Offending liquids.
+
+[56:42] Uh I've tried this technique and confirmed that it is bona fide uh working. Why would this be? And what does a red hot poker do? Well, that's interesting. Uh I don't know.
+
+[56:52] I wasn't able with a quick uh Google at Google a thon to find uh someone doing this technique. I mean I can search further. Um there's a couple ideas I have is that I wonder if it's actually oxidized fat or if it's like some other um like let's take fish like f not fish liquids, but fish, right? So like obviously fishy aroma, a lot of it is uh trimethylamine, which is TMA. TMA is bound either by by caseins, which is why you milk soak raw fish sometimes to have it bind with the casein, or it's neutral or not neutralized, it's well the opposite whatever it but with acids, you know, uh rendered non smelly with acids, but it also volatilizes at a relatively low temperature, which is why you tend to notice it less if you fry the surface of a fish because it's so hot, right?
+
+[57:38] So I'm guessing that if there is like a TMA situation, maybe the red hot poker is just nuking and volatilizing that stuff out. I'd be curious to know whether the aroma is intensely bad as it's steaming and then it gets uh better after it's been violently boiled. The other thing is that if it is uh fats, right, so free fatty acids are also volatile and rapid boiling of them will boil it off. The only um I'd have to test it. I'd have to uh look at it and and and figure it out.
+
+[58:10] I mean, I know for a fact that also the super high heat can change some chemistry locally where the iron is. I don't know if it can change it throughout the entire medium, and it depends on how long it stays in, but I don't know, it's an interesting uh thing. Ago Straight saying, Whenever I go to restaurants and bars in the mountains, the espresso day serve is always terrible, tasting more burnt the higher I go in the range of 2,000 to 3,000 meters above sea level. That's like 9,000 feet. That's high for the for those of you that don't speak meters, real high.
+
+[58:34] Uh, is the altitude and the consequent lower atmospheric pressure responsible for this? And if so, can espresso machine be adjusted to compensate for it? Well, listen, I think there's different uh issues going on here. The interesting thing about espresso machine as opposed to brewing is that it's not under atmospheric pressure, it's in a boiler. So you can set your pressure stat to kind of get whatever temperature you want.
+
+[58:53] What is different is the pressure on exit. So I've heard a lot of people say that there are problems with crema because you're so much closer to the boiling point when it exits the portafilter than you would be at uh at uh ground regular atmospheric pressure, right? So that's an issue people have uh with crema. Um but I don't know about what the flavor. Well, another problem is it's real dry in the mountains.
+
+[59:13] So whatever the issue, they're probably gonna have to use uh finer grind or more grinds because it's so dry. There's less moisture in the in the beans. That could also be a situation that they have. Uh the last thing is your taste change. So if you uh search, there's been a lot of research on your perception of uh of flavors at high, not you personally, but one's flavor perception at high altitudes.
+
+[59:34] And what's interesting is that bitter is not dampened nearly as much as sweet and salt is is at high altitudes. And so, and even over a sustained period of a couple of weeks, uh, according to some studies. So I would look at that. Maybe it's actually you at altitude and not the coffee at altitude that's causing uh the problem. Uh Lavid wants to know has anyone ever happened uh to use one of the Arco Boleno spiral mixers?
+
+[59:58] I have not, but if anyone out there has any uh idea about the ASM 40 Arco Belena uh spiral mixer, which is I guess they're using it for pasta because that's what most of what Arco Boleno does. Please let us know uh if you have any uh anything on it. And uh Dr. Smokehouse wanted to know uh about duck confie crit with Chris Young. Do you think and we'll do this next time, but you guys, well tell us what you think, and then we'll talk about it.
+
+[1:00:21] Do you uh think salting mechanisms matter much over and all uh and do you have a preferred cooking method? Uh oven stove top sou videos I do, but I'll have to spend more time on it later. I'm not gonna be here next week. I just realized over the break I'm gonna be in San Antonio next week on Tuesday. So maybe we'll have to schedule a special session of cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking News is coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City. New Stan Studios, joined as usual with John sitting here in front of me. How are you doing? Doing great, thanks.
+
+[0:22] Yeah? Yep. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. All right.
+
+[0:23] Peachy. Joe Hazen rocking the panels. What's up, Joe? Hey, how's everybody doing? Good, good, good, good, good.
+
+[0:28] We do not have Jackie Molecules, although he's listening. He's listening and coordinating, but he can't like actually speak on the phone right now, so we can't talk about him like a dog, which is kind of unfortunate because you know, when people aren't on, we like to talk smack. You know what I mean? True. But we can't.
+
+[0:44] Not that I have smack. We shouldn't, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Uh, but we do have, thankfully, Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How are you doing, Stas?
+
+[0:51] I'm good. Yeah. Yeah. And uh upper upper left, Quinn, how you doing? Hey, I'm good.
+
+[0:57] The Q Dragon. All right. Uh, so we do we do not have uh uh by the way, do we have a guest next week? Oh, we got a real fun episode next week. What?
+
+[1:08] We have two mystical chef Josh from YouTube and Ariel Jonathan. Boom. How's that working? They're all on my own. Don't you worry about the details, Dave.
+
+[1:24] It's just gonna happen, okay? They're all gonna be at my house. Oh, wait, so it's all not live, so it's gonna be one of those things where I can't see their faces and it's gonna be a nightmare, and I'm I don't know if I'm stepping on them and all this stuff. We're gonna try to figure that out. Like put them on a zoom.
+
+[1:40] Put them on a zoom. All right. Yeah. All right. Uh all right, what do you guys got for me this week?
+
+[1:47] What's going on? What be happening? What be happening? I see you brought us some chocolate stuff. I did.
+
+[1:53] I brought some chocolates. Well, while we're waiting for other people. Yeah. You want to tell me about these chocolates, Sean? So don't.
+
+[1:58] By the way, if you are listening on the Patreon, even though you probably aren't because it's not our normal day. We were recording on a Wednesday because uh yesterday I was in San Antonio. Uh do you have to be from Texas to call it San Antonio? I call it San Antonio. I'm not gonna like be like San Anton.
+
+[2:11] You know what I mean? Yeah. I don't think does anyone even say that? Is that even real? I don't know.
+
+[2:18] Maybe I mean it's gotta be. I mean, otherwise, why would we have heard it? It's not even a little bit real. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[2:23] By the way, best Uber driver stories I've ever had, any place I've ever been. One Uber driver, both her parents flew with Chennault, the Flying Tigers guy. And like with the uh Chinese National Army after World War II, she was also a pilot. Her mom was a UN doctor, and the dad was in and out of the Air Force, you know, flying like with the with the Flying Tigers logo. The dad was like, you know, in the in the early 40s, like in the original Flying Tigers before we got into the war.
+
+[2:52] And I was like, what do you think about all these kids wearing the Flying Tigers logo on their backpacks? Like, no, like they they don't even know that there were two world wars, much less one. She was like, what are you gonna do? You know what I mean? She had met Madame Chiang Kai Chek.
+
+[3:08] How messed up is that? That's pretty crazy. Yeah. Yeah, nutty, huh? Yeah, wild.
+
+[3:12] Yeah. Uber driver. You know? Another Uber driver. Get this.
+
+[3:16] Swear to God, I was there for less than I was there for 24 hours, maybe on the dot, right? 24 hours. Another Uber driver had skied for Bulgaria in the Olympics. That's crazy. And her son did gymnastics for Bulgaria.
+
+[3:30] And I'm like, what are you doing in Texas? Because she lived like all over the world. She's like, best gymnastics coaches in Texas. And she didn't talk like that because she's Bulgarian. And I tried to like bait her with a little bit of like, you know, Bulgarian chauvinism.
+
+[3:43] I was like, you know, I used to have a studio mate from Bulgaria, and he said that everyone else's feta was garbage and only Bulgarian feta is worth anything. And she was like, that's not true. Many countries have good feta. I was like, damn. So not a trash talker, huh?
+
+[3:58] You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty wild. Yeah.
+
+[4:01] Just it's like crazy Uber driver story after crazy Uber driver story. Good town for good town to get an Uber. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[4:08] Yeah. Not like Florida, where they don't they don't have front plates. Is it Florida where they don't force you to have plates on the front of your car? The worst. The worst.
+
+[4:16] So you can tell it's your car once it's past you. Oh, that was my car. There was one place I flew, I think I talked about this on air, maybe it was Florida, where Uber rents out cars to the Uber drivers, and they're all white Teslas. So you're at the airport, and there is like a fleet of white Teslas coming out. You how the hell are you supposed to know which one's your car?
+
+[4:35] Come on, man. Get with it. Front plates. Uh all right. What else you got?
+
+[4:39] Also in the news, uh, I don't know if you guys remember this uh from such times as last time we had a show, but I mentioned that, or Nastasia mentioned that her Christmas time, you know, McGilla that she appreciates food-wise, is tamales. And her mom, swear to God, packed me. First of all, I think Nastasia, your mom must own stock in a styrofoam tray corporation because that package. Your mom uses styrofoam like like deli trays as as like their dip, like that, like they're packing peanuts. It was amazing.
+
+[5:14] But she sends me a bag of Meyer lemons, a bag of uh of eureka's, you know, which is you know the style we normally get, eureka lemons, and then like both kinds of tamales, as Nastasia had said, one with the bow and one not with a bow. Not with like a grow grain bow, like you know, uh uh she slices one of the one of the husks down and ties it in a little bow to signify. I don't remember, it's bow bow bow is beef only or bow is beef pork. I think bow is beef and no bow is pork. No boy for and in uh three three to a zippy individual zippies so that you could steam individual zippies if that was your inclination, which is what I did because I have the ANOVA steam oven, makes it easy.
+
+[5:57] Andova steam oven makes your tamales easy because you don't have to fire up a steamer for it, or you know, nuke it as Nastasia does, whatever. Uh delicious. And Nastasia, I'm sure you hate everyone else's tamales because the meat ratio on these mothers was intense. You know what I'm saying? It was like it was like your mom tries to figure out like what's the thinnest skin of masa around the meat tube that uh she can make.
+
+[6:22] I was I appreciate it. It was delicious. And she sent me two kinds of cholula, the red and the green. Now, guess which one is what'd you say? Pork.
+
+[6:30] You didn't get any of the pork with green sauce ones. Molly. I put I put a lot of cholula green sauce on it, so yeah, yeah. I said which is your favorite cholula? The red.
+
+[6:43] Oh, yeah? Yeah. I like the green. And they're both good. I like the green.
+
+[6:48] I kind of have to say that, and uh people are gonna hate me for this, but Tabasco's okay. Yeah, agreed. You know? Yeah. I mean, maybe it's just because I grew up with it.
+
+[6:58] It was like everywhere. I just got like, I just like it's not like Yeah, just doesn't do it. It's fine. It's fine. Yeah.
+
+[7:05] But, you know, if you put like a bevy of hot sauces in front of me, I'm not like, ooh, I'm going for the I'm going for Avery Island. And not just because, you know, the folks over at Avery Island did all sorts of skullduggery to uh, you know, crush anyone who tried to use the word Tabasco, even though it's the name of a pepper. It's like trademarking the the word New Jersey. You shouldn't be able to do it. You know what I mean?
+
+[7:26] It should be illegal. They paid off all these judges in uh in Louisiana, which is yeah, I guess a time-honored tradition to pay off judges in Louisiana. But it's uh, you know, whatever. It's just a whatever, it's whatever. It's good, but whatever.
+
+[7:40] Is anyone, you know, John's with me anymore? What do you think, Joe? What do you where do you want Tabasco? Uh uh I'm not into hot sauce. It doesn't like me.
+
+[7:47] No? No, and I actually I'm not the now the uh for forgive me. Tabasco is very heavily vinegary-based, right? Yeah, yeah, I don't like vinegar. Oh, so Tabasco's a double no for you.
+
+[7:59] Yeah, I didn't do it. Um, I do like like like uh um the Cholula um I like the green. Um I love spicy things, but it just doesn't like me, and then I just can't do it because I suffer. Yeah. Yeah, luckily like I get to the I'm at the point where it's I just put an unconscionable amount of this stuff on everything.
+
+[8:23] You know, I don't know what it is. I don't know what I just don't enjoy eating a lot of things without a little bitty zippity do duh. You know what I mean? Sometimes I just do that with black pepper. Really?
+
+[8:33] Oh, I love the black pepper. I love black pepper. You know what happens when someone gives me a steak and there's no pepper? I'm just like that's like, or if someone gives me pizza and I don't have crush red, I'm like, I just don't enjoy it. I just don't want it.
+
+[8:48] It doesn't mean that it makes it better. It's just that's the way I want it. Aren't I old enough to want something the way I want it? I think that's her. Yeah.
+
+[8:56] You know who the first person I was like, you know what? You have it. However, someone who Nastasi, you'll remember this. Who do you k do you know who I'm talking about? Someone who we all know the story.
+
+[9:05] What? Listeners, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Chesarake. He wants his uh doesn't matter.
+
+[9:10] Champagne doesn't matter how much it costs. He wants a freaking ice cube in that thing. And I'm like, you know what, Chesare, God bless. Right? Yeah, absolutely.
+
+[9:17] You want it the way you want it. Yeah. I think you've earned it. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[9:20] Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Anyway. So uh thank your mom for me, uh, Nastasia. Now, Nastasia admits said, I think we agree on this. The flavor of Meyer lemons, who cares?
+
+[9:33] It's the aroma, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[9:37] Yeah. They smell real good. They smell real good. Uh, but you know what I should do? Because I still have a couple.
+
+[9:44] I should measure the acidity of those suckers. I don't really have the time to do it, but like break out the uh the titration setup again and do some titrations, but I really should titrate that thing and see what the acidity level is. Huh. I don't know. Uh what do you got?
+
+[9:58] You got anything. Well, we're curious about the lemons. Yeah. Uh um now, I I can't say I've I'm sure I have have had a Myers lemon, but um, I've had many lemons because I'm I I love lemons. Um love to taste lemons.
+
+[10:13] And um when you get like some of these like Italian lemon drinks, and it says, you know, uh it's carbonated water, maybe it's some type of sugar and like a lemon. Right. Like the limonata, like pegrina. Um the pellegrino doesn't, it's not exactly the the gallavina. I don't know if that's a good one.
+
+[10:34] Have I had galavina in a bottle. No. The lemon itself has got this almost like nutty nuttiness to it. That's phenomenal. And I can't, it almost like a nuttiness.
+
+[10:44] Maybe it's not nuttiness. Like, there's an aftertaste that you get from Sasaparilla. Oh. I like Sasparilla. You know that that that's a weird little thing on your tongue that you get.
+
+[10:55] This some lemon drinks do this to me, and I don't know if it's me or is it um is it the beverage itself? But sidebar, I had one of the best lemonatas on the planet two days ago. I went to Damascus the restaurant. I was gonna say the mouth. No, I didn't.
+
+[11:11] I didn't go to Damascus. I went to the uh the purveyors on Atlantic Avenue, right next to Sahiti's Sahadis. Uh I'm not as big as a fan of Sahadis, but I like Damascus better. I hear that they've changed. I don't know a regular shopper over there, but I Sahadi's is way different now.
+
+[11:27] It's not as fun. It's not as I don't sorry, sorry, not but anyway. If anyone disagrees, call us and talk to us about it. Damascus is is phenomenal. They're, you know, the spinach pie.
+
+[11:36] I'm a big fan of the pies and stuff like that and the um the stuff grape leaves. But they had the old school Sicilian Lemonata by Osis O. Sicilia Lemonata, and it's I don't know if it was the can that was so amazing to look at, or if it's the beverage, or if it's the psychological, you know, marketing branding thing. Um, but I recommend uh finding the original lemonata by O. Sicilia.
+
+[12:03] Um, and it's awesome. Well, next time you're there, you gotta bring a can in. You know what? I went to go buy it. The 48 bucks for 12 on Amazon.
+
+[12:11] No, but what about next time you're at what's it called? Next time you're in Damascus Lands. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. But I think I'm gonna get them from Amazon.
+
+[12:18] It's easier for me now. All right. With a kid, my butt, forget it. 48 for 12, that's $4 a crack. That's four, I'm I'm gonna say this again.
+
+[12:26] That's $41 can. Although, like, get this. I was at you want the reverse? I'm in San Antonio, right? Uh, I was going there for Panot Ricard.
+
+[12:29] I was there with Jack Shram. We were doing a talk on uh acid and bricks adjusting. So I go into what is purportedly the oldest bar in San Antonio from like uh the the hotels from the 1850s, the bars from 1880. They have all the original woodwork. It's been moved once inside the building, but it's all there.
+
+[12:50] Walk in, and I just kind of want to chill. You know, we had that old wood. They they said it was based on a London pub, but it you know it looked like a lot of the old like Labak Balkan, like you know, mahogany bars from that era. And you know, I sit down and I'm like, you know, I don't want to have too much, so we we get we both get an Alamo Lager because it was literally right next door to the Alamo. And uh we're drinking, we're talking about it.
+
+[13:13] I think we have one. We're just like, oh, can we get the check? She's like, that's $6.50. It's so crazy. Oh, we were all like, what?
+
+[13:24] Lord, yeah. I literally said to her, what? Oh man. Yeah, you know what else I saw there, Nastasia? So uh when my wife was working uh in Panama years ago, this has got to be like over 10, 12, this is like 12 years ago.
+
+[13:42] Uh she bought me my first like Guayabara four pocket shirt. It was made by uh Panabrisas, which is the company in Panama that made it. It was a beautiful coral color. I love that shirt. It was my favorite shirt.
+
+[13:55] And what happened to it, Nastasia? Fell in the street metal. It fell on its own. That's how I remember it. Oh yeah.
+
+[14:09] Okay. Uh it got fell on the street, ruined. Like a hole ripped in it. They had the exact same shirt at like the oldest shirt shop in San Antonio. But I was like, you know, I'm kind of on a buying freeze right now.
+
+[14:20] And it was a $180. I was like, for that, I could almost fly to Panama and get it like cheaper. You know what I mean? Yeah. Um anyways.
+
+[14:31] The other thing about San Antonio, uh, I had uh for the first time their puffy taco. I don't really want to get into an argument over like is a puffy taco like 100% different from all of the other kind of puffy fried like tortilla things, but I'll say it's delicious. We went to uh what was it? Hen I think Henry's Puffy Taco, which is one of the, you know, popularizers. Let's put it that way, one of the popularizers of the of the puffy uh taco.
+
+[14:59] So if you've never had one of these puffy tacos, most of the recipes online seem like they uh suck uh based on what I ate when I was there. So uh I didn't kind of know what to expect, but they they use an uncooked, uh relatively thick masa to tortilla, like you know, they press that and then they they fry it and it puffs up, and then as it's puffing up, they push it down so that it has a semi-taco shape. But the inside is still really soft, uh, like really kind of like you know, soft, like almost like arepa-e kind of texture, but the outside is crispy and it forms this like kind of outside double crisp layer that puffs up around this inner, like, you know, you know, you know, medio arepa kind of a situation than with the filling in it. And they're filling it, Henry's is also like we had a bunch of them, but good. Good and cheap and cheap.
+
+[15:50] And cheap. Everything's so much more affordable as soon as you leave New York City. It's crazy. Yeah, we went to another place, I forget the name of it, but it was something like the the chef's name or something, pork and bread. And we had their like a jogato version things where they stand up the sandwich like it's a sinking Titanic and then they pour the sauce all over it.
+
+[16:07] It comes in baskets. You know the you know tortilla baskets, not the the warming ones, though the wickery ones. Yeah. And they put like a shower cap over it, and then they put the sandwich into the tortilla into the shower bath like shower cap in the thing, and then with sauce all over it. And then I was like, well, okay.
+
+[16:26] Okay. Sounds good. Yeah. And we went to uh John's recommendation. Yeah, my land.
+
+[16:31] Is it good? Very good. I went, I was a little nervous because when you go in, it looks I mean it it is somewhat uh touristy track. You know, the the servers are dressed up and yeah, yeah. They didn't have a band because it was lunchtime.
+
+[16:45] Okay, and uh, you know, like all sort of like you know, crazy decorations everywhere. Super kitschy, but oh my god, their uh their uh green chili uh enchilada was like really acidic, which I appreciate. I appreciate a high acid green uh chili enchilada. It was delicious. And the last thing is it's a chain, and it I'm not gonna try to pronounce it.
+
+[17:05] No, no, not okay, okay. Uh the pan you know pan of whatever it is, area, like pan the bread and whatever it is. I'm not gonna be able to pronounce it. But you know those rolls that I forget the name of, I'm gonna see if anyone remembers the name of them, where they're like really puffy, like like really light, almost kind of brioche kind of rolls with that crispy layer of uh sugar on top of them. You guys know what I'm talking about?
+
+[17:31] What? Maybe, but I never know the name of them because whenever I order them, I'm like, these suck. And I throw them away. I take one bite and I throw them away because they're always kind of stale. Yeah, those.
+
+[17:41] They're always they're always kind of stale. I ate one from this place, and I was like, oh my God, these are so good. How could I have gone for 52 years thinking that this was a trash can product and not understanding why anyone ever wanted to eat these? And why I thought they just made them because they were pretty. I thought they were like decorations, you know?
+
+[18:01] Like popcorn strings at Christmas or something that no one ever ate these things. And I ate like two or three of them. That was like, these are so good. Like the bread was so fresh and light, and the crispy coating was just shattering. Like shattering.
+
+[18:15] You know what I mean? I was like, damn, this is good. Did not require any sort of topping of any kind. Anyway, that's my San Antonio story. Yeah.
+
+[18:24] Uh what do you got, Quinn? You've been cooking anything? You've been cooking? Oh, yeah. I've got it.
+
+[18:28] Before I get to what I've been cooking, you received uh the tamales. Did you receive anything else? Now you're testing. Oh Jesus. Son of a gun.
+
+[18:46] You know, the company that you oh my God. So like in San Antonio, someone raises their hand, I'm like, yes. They're like, What is my spinzall getting here? I was like, oh. Uh well, I don't know what you guys are worried about.
+
+[19:01] My spins all showed up last week. So the uh pilot unit, uh, so for those of you like a quick reminder on how this all works. Like you argue with a factory for years and years and years. You make a bunch of crappy prototypes. They then do what's called engineering build, and the engineering build is the last time they're really allowed to f up.
+
+[19:22] And they did. They really effed up, which is why we're uh a month behind. They messed up the electronics, not the main guts. And uh, but the pilot run is the one they do after the engineering run. And the pilot run is where they're supposed to say, we know what we're doing now.
+
+[19:37] So the pilot run unit is supposed to come to you, and it's only minor tweaks from there on out. And my the pilot unit showed up last week. Uh I f had Dax, because he was still in town, uh, take a video of me unboxing it, completely not. I had no idea whether the thing was gonna work or not. One take, in and out, worked great.
+
+[19:58] So we're super uh we're super excited and relieved. As far as we uh know, we like we look like we're good for production uh beginning this month. It's a two-day production. So when I say beginning this month, I mean January 31st through February 2nd, and then a couple of days of uh freaking inspection, and then it's you know, boat on the water, boom thumb thumb. You know what I mean?
+
+[20:19] It's like get that thing on the water, yeah, get it out. Exciting, get it off my shoulders, you know what I mean? Like all the three of us are like you know what I mean? Now we can't wait for that crap to be done. Done.
+
+[20:34] Uh anywho. Uh was that what you was that was I was supposed to talk about, guys? Yeah, yeah, I think so. Yeah, yeah. Uh all right.
+
+[20:42] Um, when I cooked, I made some pretty great uh pasta emetriciana with handmade guanchole. I went really wild with this batch of guancholi. Uh oh. I used regular salt, obviously, a little carry cut number two. Um little bit of messy, just a really small amount.
+
+[21:08] Um a little bit of savory nucleotides. So I know and light. And then instead of a small amount of regular sugar, of course, dextrose, and take a melt, yeah. Uh what's my favorite sugar? You're oh god dang it.
+
+[21:31] Lactose? Why? For what reason, though? Because it's paired with cheese. Yeah, but so but well, why?
+
+[21:42] It's really good. You know what I don't, you know what I don't uh drink when I'm eating cheese? Well, they're still treating milk of lactose milk and cheese. That's the thing is like when I'm eating cheese, I don't drink milk. Why?
+
+[21:56] Like, I'm not saying it wasn't delicious. I'm sure it's delicious. I'm just questioning why lactose. Is that like not eating chicken when you're eating chilliquillis? Is that really a thing you're not supposed to do?
+
+[22:08] I don't know. How do we eat chicken and egg at the same time? Really? That's weird. Wow.
+
+[22:18] Joe's just saying he doesn't do it. I don't do it. I don't do it. He's like, I won't do it. It's good.
+
+[22:25] It's not a cheese with lactose. It's the meat, infusing the meat with the channel. I know, but you said you said that you put lactose in the guanchale because lactose pairs with cheese, which you're gonna eat with the guanchali. Is that not what you said? Yeah, because it sort of regulates the cheese.
+
+[22:42] But how does it highlight the cheese? It's just it's a lactate how does it highlight the cheese? Milk doesn't highlight cheese. But the sweetness. But any sweetness.
+
+[22:51] I don't know. I don't know now. Look, I'm not saying it's not delicious. I'm not saying it's not really good, but you know what, I bet you would be just as good? Sha shugar.
+
+[23:00] Sugar. Sugar. Yeah. I mean, people had dextrose because they don't want it to be sweet and they want it to ferment down. I get that, but lactose is less sweet, even dextrose is easy to dose in because it's a powder.
+
+[23:14] I I get all that. Uh, but I don't know, man. You and your you and your lactose, you're like, crap on you if you can't eat it. Yeah, anyway. Uh anyway, whatever.
+
+[23:25] It was really good. Um and also, okay. You know what you need to do? You need to do a side by side. Well, I I was actually trying to, but then the other one got moldy.
+
+[23:38] What's wrong with mold? Couldn't scrape it up. Was the wrong mold? It got it got bad. Yeah, no, it was not good mold.
+
+[23:44] Yeah. Hey, uh, I'm not saying you should do everything traditionally, but I think as I've said many times, any time I used to talk to Giuliano Buggiali, like anytime someone was doing something like that and they put a non standard, any sort of non standard spice on it, I was like, hey, what do you think? What do you think? Uh Gianna, what do you think? He's I don't like it.
+
+[24:07] I've made normal guancholy before. I've also had commercially produced guancholis. I've had some really bad commercially produced guanciale that a lot of people really like. How do you like yours? Do you like yours dry as a bone so that it has nothing left to it, or do you like it wet, or do you like it somewhere in between?
+
+[24:25] Um, I don't know the moisture level of the stuff I bought, but I mean, I'm targeting the thirty percent moisture loss. I was a little short. 30 this time. Yeah. That's quite that's pretty dry.
+
+[24:39] I mean, I mean it's drier than 25. It's so much fat that like you're not losing my point is is that you're not losing a lot of weight out of the fat. So if you're doing like a 30% off of the meat level in a guantal, it's quite a bit of moisture going out of something that is primarily fat. So it's good so it's on the dry side, is what I'm saying. I'm not saying good or bad.
+
+[25:00] I'm just saying it's on the dry side. Yeah. Right. What kind of pasta? Bocatini.
+
+[25:04] Pacquet. I actually did ready to nice. Okay. Little radiators. Nastassi, what are your thoughts on uh on the radiator shape?
+
+[25:14] I like it actually. I do too. They're okay. Yeah. What do you prefer the radiators or do you prefer the little uh the spirals?
+
+[25:24] Spirals. Huh. Why? Better bounce. Like the pre-stranglers or the Oh no, I love those.
+
+[25:31] I don't even care what they're shaped like. Oh, the routinis, you mean? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the radiators are good sauce holders, but they're not so bouncy, you know what I mean?
+
+[25:41] They got a nice bite though in the middle. The radiators? Yes. Yeah. That's what that's what for fossil for me.
+
+[25:46] It's gotta have a snap. Like for Folly in the middle, that when it in the in the fold decrease, that snap you get. That's the money for you. Man. Yeah.
+
+[25:55] Nastasia, what's your absolute like when you want to eat something, you get to choose a sauce. What's your favorite shape, or do you not have one? Because it depends on your mood. Really? That's your fave?
+
+[26:06] Nice. All right. Best name. It is the best go-to. I like Bucettini a lot.
+
+[26:13] Oh yeah. Oh yeah. That's good. Hmm. Uh what if you could inject some crap into the middle of that?
+
+[26:20] It'll be it's it's gilding lily. It doesn't need it. Stupid. Stupid. I take it back.
+
+[26:26] Release in my name. Well, you can put another piece of spaghetti inside the coccatini. Yeah. Well, you know that I've said this before. The insult in my family is that guy is a macaroni with no hole.
+
+[26:39] Yeah. He's a macro. He's a macaroni with no hole. That's what he used to say about my crazy Uncle Larry. Macaroni with no hole.
+
+[26:49] As opposed to, you know, what's good is you're you're a you know, tall drink of water, long drink of water. That's good. But macaroni is always, I mean, like, is macaroni always an elbow? No, but it was just a saying they had. I don't know.
+
+[27:00] I don't know what that. I don't know why they called it. I don't know. The macaroni used to be the term for like all dried pasta, right? Yeah, I'm saying is in Boston the term that is this idiot is a macaroni with no hole, which is a nicer way of saying strunz.
+
+[27:13] You know what I mean? Anyway. Uh I always wanted one of the that posters I always see in the Italian markets, the oldest all the pasta numbers and shapes. Always like enamored me. Nastasia has that book that's like like the math of pasta or something.
+
+[27:27] It's all like all like numbers and pictures and like technical drawings. Right, Sas? Don't you have that book? I think Mark has it. I didn't get that back.
+
+[27:36] He doesn't he doesn't care about that stuff, does he? You care about that stuff. I don't know. All right. Uh all right.
+
+[27:44] So John, should we eat these chocolates before? Let's eat these chocolates. All right, what are they? What are they, Belgium men? So these are from Nuhaus, which is I know those guys.
+
+[27:51] Yeah. I mean, not personally. Yeah, yeah. Um it's a chocolate shop that was started in 1857. It's in the Grande Galerie.
+
+[28:01] If I've sent you guys listeners the food recommendation map thing, uh it's on that list. It's really great. Uh so he started out as a pharmacist, tried to be a doctor, but failed at that, so opened up a pharmacy. Did the chocolates too and used chocolate to cover the medicine, so everyone loved it. And then in 1912, their claim to fame is having uh invented the praline.
+
+[28:23] Um so instead of gas. Yes, yes. First of all, that's the worst word in the world because it means a billion things to a billion people. But does it know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[28:31] Say that to someone down south and they're like, what? Yeah. Yeah, completely different. Yeah, yeah. Um praline.
+
+[28:37] But whatever, very. What's that? It's not praline. Wait, what so what is it? What what's their definition of what they invented?
+
+[28:42] The So I think instead of let's see, what do they say on their their website? You translate it from the French. To delight his customers in the apothecary, Jean Nohouse first thought about covering medicines with the finest chocolate. In 1912, his grandson had evolved this idea into the Belgian Palinet, as we know it today, chocolate filled with delight instead of medicine. Oh god damn.
+
+[29:00] That's a terrible This is the worst, worst fluffery in the world. And first of all, like why would you put fine chocolate around medicine? Just anything to make it go down. You know what the you know who the best at that is? Advil.
+
+[29:14] Advil. They put like sugar on the outside of those things. We used to call those office candy. Oh, brown, the brown advil, the best ones. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[29:21] Yeah. Because, like, you know, I used to have to work in an office, and the minute I walked in, I had a headache. I'm like, oh my god. Get me out. Give me some office candy stat.
+
+[29:34] And then we get the Advil's. And I still have good feelings about the Mavill. So, you know, I I graduated from the uh remember the chewables, St. Joe's? Oh, yeah, the pink the pink one.
+
+[29:44] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you're supposed to give it to your child now, like when they're infants. Yeah, like weird. You're like your no-teeth gums. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[29:56] Yeah, yeah. The other thing that I used to pound, remember when uh vitamin C tablets were a huge thing and they had those like sticks of vitamin C tablets like Smarties, I'd be like pow pow pow pow pow pow I was like I was like that with tums. Oh, really? That'll mess you up though. You have too many tons.
+
+[30:16] It hurt me, it hurt me. All right, so we're we're prolining out here. Wait, did this one's fill with happiness or this one's filled with medicine? Happiness, hazelnuts. Uh other little things it's got a weird like candied kind of shell to it.
+
+[30:27] You talk while I taste. Um hazelnut kind of cream filling, but yeah, there's like a little stickiness to it. Uh it's tasty. It's not like my favorite of their chocolates. This is probably that.
+
+[30:40] It's got uh Maison d'Andois speculos inside. Oh, well, that's exactly. You know it's gonna be a game winner. First of all, this one's delicious. Trader Joe's no offense to the to my uh to uh them, but they sell that they sell this.
+
+[30:53] How do you pronounce it? How do they actually speculate? How do they pronounce it? Speculus. Yeah.
+
+[30:57] Okay. They're fine. But when you go to the actual like place, pronounce the the the dandovani. Dandois. Maison d'andois.
+
+[31:05] Yeah. You go there, and they have like four foot tall ones that you can buy, and they have all the molds around. And it's like, imagine this guy what Nastasia always says, like, you know, someone's like, Oh, I want to make that. And you're like, okay, that's great. Making it once, and then you go to this place, and this is what they do.
+
+[31:24] Like, like where they wake up in the morning and you they don't seem like they're jokers, right? You know how like sometimes people show up and like uh, you know, their job is whatever, and so they just do their job so they can get out. I think these people are literally like thinking about these products as they're making them. You know what I mean? It's a money, it's a it's a it's a huge money place.
+
+[31:40] And they're actual, like their non that their waffle, the stand in the street. Ridiculous. Ridiculous. That's the first time I realized that I was a complete idiot. And that I had to get a hold of a real waffle iron, and then I knew nothing.
+
+[31:55] It's like, you know, a no know nothing moment. And what they they had running from their commissary on a constant basis. People with buckets, buckets of uh, you know, of the uh the Brussels mix because that's a battery and just trays, tubs full of the Liege, the Liege uh stuff rising because they could not make that stuff fast enough. Yeah, it's very good. All right, I'm gonna try this.
+
+[32:19] All right John, you talk talk about so what's this what's the orange bullet? I it's the it's the one filled with the speculos. You talk about so I don't get uh death threats. Yeah, no, it's got a weird, it's like a pyramid-shaped chocolate. It's got uh orange cap, which is a little strange, but yeah.
+
+[32:35] Oh Sacey. Prolean with uh with speculos, yeah. Can't go wrong. That's crazy Belgians. Yeah, but that's the really good chocolates.
+
+[32:43] They I think still provide the chocolates to the monarch, you know, the Belgian monarchy there. So it's like I imagine their palace being filled with like little trays of these chocolates around. I think of uh the Belgian monarchy as being filled with trays of sadness. Yes, that too, especially if you go way back, yes. Not even that far back.
+
+[32:58] Yeah, yeah, exactly. Not that far back, but yeah. Like my parents' lifetime. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[33:04] Yeah, my grandparents' lifetime too. Yeah, yeah. What what what is speculos? Because I'm it's a cookie, like a spiced cookie that uh gets ground down into like a peanut butter y kind of paste. Not like the gynecological tool speculum or anything.
+
+[33:19] No, no, no, no, no, no. No. Oh, wow. Dark place. Uh okay.
+
+[33:25] Well, thank you. Why why how did how did you come upon these right now? I got some as a Christmas present for one of my prep guys. Oh, nice. So I got some for us too, because I figured why not?
+
+[33:29] They're less. Yeah, they have an outpost near Grand Central, I think. Yeah, that's where I got them. Yeah, nice. And have had for years.
+
+[33:40] Yes. But I've always I always used to walk past it. So like uh one of uh Jen's uh studio mates in uh architecture school was uh she was she was huge on on that. She's Parisian though, you know what I mean? So she was always like go there, and I'm like, Well, where are you getting this money from?
+
+[33:53] You're an architecture student. What the hell's wrong with you? You know what I mean? They're not afraid of charging. No.
+
+[33:59] No. I think nine chocolates was 30 bucks, basically. Kill me. All right. Uh wait.
+
+[34:09] So Quinn. Back to your back to your guanchali. I'm thinking about it. The only one that didn't get mold was uh did you did you have the same amount of all the products on it or no? Um you know what, man?
+
+[34:24] One variable at a time, my man. One variable at a time, sweet Jesus. I'm gonna send you, I'm just sending you an interesting video describing multi-variable comparative studies. Okay, you can, but you know what's easy to do? One variable at a time.
+
+[34:39] Unless the variables are completely, completely um separable, right? If the variables are completely separable, then you know, test two at once. Like color of the car and the engine of the car. Oh, yeah, but I'm also like making two at a time at most. And it takes like six to nine months, so yeah.
+
+[35:04] Well, you gotta pick up the pace a little. Yeah, okay, but if you're making two, then one variable. You can maybe do more variables if you had three. You know what I mean? I mean, how you gonna get how you gonna do it?
+
+[35:22] Well, anyway, whatever. But like, for instance, like, what's the advantage? I know every beef jerky maker adds uh umami agents to their to their stuff. But did you did you side by side that as well with it? Well, again, yeah, that was part of the original test, but then again, the other one might maybe.
+
+[35:42] They've made materially previously. Again, it's more of an iterative process than directly comparing by something. Yeah, but you know what? Like eventually you need to do a direct comparison just because you know you you you're always wrong. This I had this discussion just yesterday when I was doing this talk.
+
+[35:58] It's like you fool yourself and you can't you're no one is good enough to know uh today versus three, four days ago, much less three, four months ago, whether this one's better than that one. Nobody, you know what I mean? You have to taste them uh side by side, you know, to really know. It's a because like I've had that happen to me constantly. In the fridge.
+
+[36:22] Yeah, it's not that silly. That's not the same, not the same. Anyway, okay. Uh Dr. Smose uh Dr.
+
+[36:31] Smos. Dr. Smokehouse uh wrote in. Two questions came to mind on your brief uh duck confit discussion with Chris Young. One, do you think the salting method matters much, i.e.
+
+[36:42] uh salting it overnight randomly or equilibrium salt for a length of time? Well, I think it does matter, but uh I don't know anyone that does equilibrium salting on Confit because who's got the freaking time? So I think you just salt it. All right. Well, this is why you can't do side by side tests, Quinn.
+
+[36:57] Because you you do things that take a billion years. It's like everyone, everyone who makes it in a restaurant, they salt it. Equilibrium cure a dick takes like two or three days. I'm saying that's a lot. That's a lot.
+
+[37:09] A lot of time and a lot of space. Yeah. To do that. Yeah. Like in the walk-in, that's I don't know.
+
+[37:13] For me, like in my experience, at least it's very limited, yeah. Yeah. Right. So most people want to do like 24 hours, right? And so you and frankly, like if you do excess salt uh on the outside, um, I mean, you might get a little change plus or or minus, but during the cook, it will equilibrate quite a bit into the into the meat.
+
+[37:37] And uh, Greg Blonder, regardless of what you think of his other uh thoughts on uh cooking techniques in his uh what's his it's not genuine ideas is his blog. He's done a lot of tests showing that the um salt penetration rate is extremely high at cooking temperatures. So if you're gonna cook something for quite a long time, you're more likely to get a better equilibrated salt uh level than you would, let's say letting it sit in a fridge. Um so you know, well, did Quinn, did you do a side-by-side on equilibri uh uh equilibrium salting versus uh just salting overnight? I I do I do everything that I'm gonna like specifically salt equilibrium.
+
+[38:22] The only thing I do equilibrium is uh is uh salmon. Because you know it's it's two, three days and it needs to cure for two or three days anyway. You can't do a one-day cure on a salmon and have it be sliceable. You need to do like a three-day cure to have it really be sliceable and then dry out. So I do equilibrium because you want it to be accurate all the time.
+
+[38:42] With duck, I don't, yeah, overnight. But you could do equilibrium cure, but I I don't know the percentages off the top of my head. Uh I know that modern confie, even modern confie, and when I say that, I mean like confie from the 90s forward, really changed a lot from traditional. So if you go to like an old school bistro uh in France and you get the confie, it's very different from the confie you would get at like, you know, like a mid to high tier New York restaurant in like the early 2000s. And by that I mean the salt levels a lot lower.
+
+[39:15] Um and a lot of traditionalists really decried the decrease in salt in the confie uh over time. Part of it was, and you would I would talk to chefs about it, and part of it was uh, you know, like John says, I want to get that thing out faster, and also part of it is people's tastes ran to lower salt items than uh than they than they had prior. And people didn't really care about the traditional uh technique of you can remember confie is originally like a siege thing, you know. It's like you know, you take your or you know, uh the a preservation thing, you're taking your duck and you're preserving it for a long time. So you needed a good salt amount to prevent botulism and whatnot from growing in it.
+
+[39:54] It was typically herbed with other things that were also bacteria static or bacteriacytal, right? Uh so the herbs were a necessary component uh as well. And in the modern times, all that kind of stuff dropped off. So I think most people now have salt just for their taste because they're also not curing it. That's one thing I really miss.
+
+[40:11] If you've never had a truly aged confie, they're missing out. Like the confie that you made yesterday is fine. Right? That the confie you made months and months ago, that's fine. You know what I mean?
+
+[40:24] You know what I'm saying? John, you know you're with me, right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, notes. And like uh you can you can taste it.
+
+[40:31] Yeah. And uh because there's a little more, you know, breakdown of the stuff. But the stuff that you're gonna keep for a long time, better get your salt levels right, i.e. traditional. Yeah.
+
+[40:41] Um anyway, um, and two, do I have a preferred cooking method, oven stove top sous- vide? So we did extensive testing on different kinds of vacuum-bagged uh confie back in the day. And the tremendous advantage of vacuum bagged confess that you don't need a lot of fat to do it. And that's a huge advantage. Uh so that's what we used to do all the time.
+
+[41:08] Um, we've done low temperature sous- vide and traditional sous- vide. I do not like low temperature confie very much. Uh, it's fine, it's not a bad product, but if you were to hand me low temperature confie and uh high temperature confie, both in a bag, I would choose the high temperature, i.e. traditional, like 85 C something like this, Celsius, every single time. Now, is this because I grew up eating confit?
+
+[41:35] And would someone who, you know, if I somehow like flew someone in from Mars and like they had never heard of or had confí before and I served them, you know, uh a low temp confie and the traditional that maybe they would prefer the the low temp one, I don't know. But I didn't fly in from Mars and I grew up eating Konfi, so I prefer the other one. Um and maybe that makes me a dinosaur. I don't know. Uh have you ever had a low temp confie?
+
+[41:59] No, I haven't. It's fine. It's but confie is comfy. Yeah. Uh and uh so I wouldn't go low temp sous-vide.
+
+[42:08] Um, the problem with the bag is there's no evaporation. So if you are working uh with confie in a bag, you'll notice you get a weird jelly uh along with the uh along with the the fat that renders uh out of the uh the bird when it's uh working. And it probably makes it, if you're gonna age it for a long time different, and it also changes the way it kind of crisps up when you fry it because there's more moisture on the inside of it, so it's a little bit different. I think the skin's a little bit different. And it's the same problem.
+
+[42:37] Um I think that's roughly the same as doing it in a um in a combi oven, unless you could figure out, which this is what somebody should do. Somebody should help me out, right? Here's what you need to do. And I don't have the time to do it, so I won't. But do a traditional confie, you know, uh weigh weigh your products before and after and see how much water is uh is getting evaporated out of X number of legs at X weight.
+
+[43:05] Weigh them before, weigh the whole thing after, uh, figure out how much is evaporating, and then you could tune a combi oven to the correct steam level to get that exact moisture loss, but you'd probably have to get the loads right each time. And if you did that, I'm assuming you'd be able to make a pretty bang on Confi. Because that that's the issue, I think, with um non traditional ways of doing it, is it's hard to get the evaporation as well as uh the other things right at the same time. Does that make sense? Yeah.
+
+[43:36] Anyway, one time I did I think I can't remember what I think I did maybe with a lower temperature, but you could do a higher temperature. I did a bath in bath going fee with the Civide. So I had like a tree filled with oil with the product inside, and that was nested inside the water bath, and there was only about a two-degree difference why the water and the fish. Why? Um I wanted lower temperature.
+
+[44:07] But I didn't have any sort of precision like served up anytime you're at the lower temperature, anytime you're below, anytime you're covered with oil and you're below the uh boiling point of water, you get very little evaporation because uh there's you know, you're under oil, so there's not a lot of vapor pressure, not a lot of stuff is leaving. So I would bet, and this is why when somebody is if you were gonna make like uh some at like some Italian families when they're making their super soprasata, when they're making their supersad, right, they let it cure for a certain amount of time until it's as dry as they want, and then they put it in oil, right? Or country ham makers, they get the country ham exactly the way they want it, and then they slather the face of the ham with with fat, hard fat, to prevent evaporation, right? So if you're going low temp under oil, you're gonna get very little evaporation. So I'm assuming you're gonna get a wetter product than you would otherwise.
+
+[45:04] And so what I'm saying is is that I when I make confie, I usually do it in the bag because I'm lazy and it's extremely easy to throw my bags in the fridge and then cut them open when I need them. And I'm not aging them for a long time. But I think that someone who does it the old way is probably gonna make a better product than I do. That's my guess. I don't know.
+
+[45:29] I mean, comfy delicious. But I think you could make it just as good if you were to measure the stuff I was measuring, uh talking about. Tony Tony writes in, this is a home kitchen question. In fact, an on-a-budget home kitchen question. Tony Tony, I know where this is going.
+
+[45:42] I've read it, so I literally know where it's going. But I'm very nervous telling you to do things that are. Well, I'm not going to tell you how to do really dangerous things. Okay. So uh this is a home kitchen question, on budget home kitchen question.
+
+[45:55] I'm using a three-year-old freestanding gas Samsung range from the Home Depot. I'm sorry for you, Tony Tone. Uh is it possible to cool? And that's probably fine. Samsung makes decent products.
+
+[46:05] They make good products. I don't know, I don't know your stove. So I don't know. But I'm just imagining if it's freestanding. Here's what I don't like about when you're buying a stove like that and it's freestanding.
+
+[46:17] It sounds like you're you're on a budget. Maybe it's not your house. Is when the stove isn't installed properly and it moves around. So when you're cooking on your stove and your stove makes any movement at all, it just drives me bonkers. Nuts.
+
+[46:30] You know what I mean? As much as when I sit down at a table and it doesn't have wobble wedges and the table's moving around and I want to lose my freaking mind. You know what I mean? Anyway, so I hope that's not happening. I hope you have a very steady, steady stove.
+
+[46:44] But a lot of those ones you get, they're so lightweight. They're gonna move around. My stove like weighs like what a truck weighs. You know what I mean? Uh yeah.
+
+[46:51] Anyway, is it possible to coordinate the oven controls so uh that what they say is what I get? Yes and no. Currently I want uh say 225 Fahrenheit and I have the oven set at 250, and only by judging time it takes to get things done. You're only judging by the time it takes to get things done. I guess uh if I had a way of testing the oven temp that I trusted, I would settle for that and not go through the hassle of coordinating the electronic settings with the actual temperatures.
+
+[47:14] Unfortunately, the grocery store oven thermometer I picked up, nah, nah, nah. Nope. Uh seems way off. Uh says like it's 150 degrees when the oven is set at 250. Uh using my construction quality infrared thermometer also seems unreliable.
+
+[47:27] Yeah, yeah, it is, because what are you pointing at, right? Um I'm only asking what's reliable and affordable. Uh third-party oven thermometer. I have a thermopen. No, no, no.
+
+[47:37] Listen, so uh what's really cheap is uh thermocouples, right? So you what you want to do is go get thermocouple uh bead thermocouples with fiberglass insulation that are rated above uh 400 or 500, I would do 500. They do five, six hundred degrees Fahrenheit, right? The the it's gonna get a little toasty, but it's not gonna be too bad. Turn the oven off.
+
+[48:00] Every gas oven has holes in it, right, for ventilation. And so if you take off the if you get into it, you can feed a thermocouple up into the body of the oven without having them so that you're shutting the door on the thermocouple wire, and you can have the thermocouple come out through the bottom because it can take all the temperatures, and they are cheap. On the order of like five dollars a piece, maybe for a bead thermocouple, they can they can take all this. Don't get the ones with PVC on them. Don't get the ones with PVC on them.
+
+[48:31] And then on eBay or on Amazon, you can get really cheap thermocouple thermometers, and you can actually measure in like various places in your oven what the temperature actually is. I can't see like professional, I know how to adjust a professional thermostat in an oven. You rip the knob off, you you set it at a temperature, and there's an internal screw on the inside of the knob. Like we most of them use like Robertshaw or similar thermostats, and you pull off the knob and there's an inner screw on the inside of the thing that lets you turn so that you can you set a temperature, then you get your thermometer and you measure it, and then you rotate the screw up or down to set the ther thermostat. But I don't know how home ovens work.
+
+[49:09] If it's an electronic, most of these things have a calibration uh screw on them somewhere. So, like a professional oven, you calibrate both the height of the pilot and you can't, but you can't do that. Home ovens now are all click, click, click, click, click, click, you know, ignitions. But usually there's some sort of calibration thing. So you figure out who made the control for it and figure out how to calibrate it, get some uh thermocouples in there, and you could probably do this whole thing for if you're willing to wait and find I could use thermometer under 150 bucks, and then you can use that on any sort of testing you want to do later, all those thermocouples, and you can reuse them and just don't please don't burn yourself or burn your house down.
+
+[49:48] Uh and thank God you didn't ask me to tell you how to uh put a solenoid valve in line with your gas unit and control uh the oven any way you want, hot rod it up to 900 degrees, because I definitely would not tell you how to do that. Uh Jameson wrote in uh and would appreciate thoughts on mapping and calibration of ovens, uh and whether uh whether I guess it's probably for Chris, but whether we worry about it or just work around it like everyone else, it's very instructive to map your oven at least once to see where all the real hot spots and cold spots are uh and how they work. Uh so typically what uh I did is uh I would get this one I didn't build it into my oven, but I I've mapped my brevel, I've mapped my APO, uh, is you take three different thermocouples at three heights and you just make a little wire uh kind of rig to hold them, and then you put them at uh you know front to back. You can really map out and see where all like the crazy cold spots are. And then once you know, then you kind of know what to do, and you stop worrying about it.
+
+[50:46] So you don't need to map it all the time. You know what I mean? You can either be like, oh, this is fine, or like, oh, I'm really, I'm so effed that I'm not gonna worry about it anymore, which is kind of what I end up doing. Uh Lionel Hutz writes in uh question for me. Uh who or whomever might have insight.
+
+[51:01] I've been having trouble with my dough rise. It is a complicated question. So if we have any real dough people out here, and and uh Lionel, I feel like I need more information from you. All right. I've been having trouble with my dough rising after mixing uh with a pretty active sourdough starter.
+
+[51:14] I'm gonna start from the back. So what Lionel says in the thing is that uh their dough usually doubles, right? Uh in um their dough usually doubles uh in a similar time span to their starter, which they're saying their starter doubles every four to five hours. So they're usually after they make their bulk, their they do their bulk fermentation, they get a doubling time in four to five hours, right? And uh now it's taking like eight to ten hours, so about twice the time.
+
+[51:42] And they say that it that they're adding the same amount of sourdough starter to each. They're adding five percent, which seems low, right? I think you know, more like ten might be, and that could help you out. But what I what I don't know, what you didn't tell me, Lionel, and you're approofing an 80. Well, you didn't, and you're using an ancarcerum, which I appreciate.
+
+[52:01] You know, everyone knows I like the ancarcerum mixer, but you know, Swedish helper baby, the kitchen assistant, and carsum. Uh but what you didn't say, you said what you're doing now, but you didn't say what you used to do that made it work, right? So something changed between the way you used to do it when it used to double and now. And so I don't I can't go line by line and figure out where the change is and what could have happened, right? So I think there is some like follow-up discussion in the in the Discord too big to include.
+
+[52:39] Well, nothing. The word that the word document would have uh crapped out on me. Well, it was like uh but anyway, so waiting nothing. If nothing changed, then nothing changed. Then I can't troubleshoot.
+
+[52:53] If it used to work, people are suggesting it somehow might be the season. What? He he he proofs it in an oven at 80 degrees temperature controlled. He's getting dough out of the ancarcerum at 78 to 80 degrees Fahrenheit, right? So I don't think it's the season.
+
+[53:17] I really don't. You know what I mean? Um he's using 25% rye, which is gonna act pretty much like wheat flour at that dosage. I mean, it's it's high for you know pretending to be wheat, but it's still gonna act, you know, primarily as as a wheat dough at that point. Um I don't know what's different.
+
+[53:35] Is the is the mixer different? Is he switching to a different mixer? Is it you a different flour? I mean, the easiest thing to do is to just up the sourdough because he's it's on the very low end, right? Like up at the 10.
+
+[53:47] Yeah. Because anytime you uh up the the leavener, you know, when you're talking about doubling times, uh, right? So if you're talking about doubling times, if you double the amount of stuff that's in, that's one doubling you don't have to do. And that all of a sudden bingity bingity boomity, it takes you from it takes you from you know 10 hours to five. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[54:07] So um yeah, I mean, I just like I would need so were there any differences to hone in on? It's always the difference that makes the difference. If I can be honest. The mystery, the mystery was that something changed that he was not right. The other thing is the starter the starter doing it.
+
+[54:26] The starter could change. Just because one starter worked a certain way, it's not the same, it's not the same group of microbes that it that it was before. And something that you know rises like a mother in a hundred percent hydration situation when you're feeding it constantly, right? It's not necessarily gonna rise at the same rate, you know, in uh in a bread system. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[54:46] Um so it I don't I don't know. I didn't I don't have the hydration of the dough, as far as I can tell here. Anyway, look for your point of difference and your point of difference, if you can find no point of difference, then your starter is probably the difference. But I guarantee you, somewhere there is a point of difference. Find it.
+
+[55:06] You know what I mean? That's always what you need to do. And this is why Quinn, one variable at a time, baby. Because you need to find the point of difference. Anyway.
+
+[55:15] Uh let me know. Let me know what the Discord finds. Uh Tyler H, question uh that can probably be answered. Uh I think uh was maybe talked about at the show at some point. How do I make a sauce using low temperature bag juices?
+
+[55:28] That's just sounds wrong. How do I make a bag juice sauce? Like Nastasi, if you went to a restaurant and someone's like, yo, we have a bag juice sauce, what would you say? No, thank you. Yeah, right?
+
+[55:41] No thanks. I I told you guys, like someone once said it's served in a room temperature sauce. And I was like, No, no, thanks. No thanks. I mean, words have words have uh words carry feelings.
+
+[55:53] You know? Yeah. Room temperature sauce means you made it one way and now it's at the temperature of the room. I have not controlled it. I care little for you.
+
+[56:00] You know what I mean? Uh I mean, I'm sure that's not what they meant by it, but you know. That's what's implied. It's what's implied. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[56:10] Is there any good way to say something's gonna be room temperature? That's not assumed to be room temperature, right? So, like when a little charcuterie plate shows up and that sucker is cold, I'm like, oh damn. Why'd you hurt my why'd you hurt my meat? You know what I mean?
+
+[56:25] Yeah. But I I've noticed people serving cheeses colder and it makes me bad. Tempered. Tempered. I like it.
+
+[56:34] Sounds a little more sophisticated. Yeah, has other meanings, but I like it. I feel it's getting close. Tempered. Tempered, tempered, tempered to temperature.
+
+[56:43] All right. Uh how do I make a sauce using low temp bag juices without turning it into a coagulated gray grossness? Most recent fail was from a 24-hour, 135-degree uh beef roast. Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. That's that's gross looking.
+
+[56:57] So here's what happens, people. Uh, as I'm sure you all know, uh, different proteins coagulate at different temperatures. And when you're doing uh low temperature cooking, uh, there are always proteins uh in the liquid that leaches out of the meat. So as the as the fibers contract, right, uh they squeeze liquid out. And also the the you know, the the proteins have less water holding capacity, the muscle muscle fibers have less water holding capacity.
+
+[57:25] So moisture goes out. We all know this. In that stuff that leaches out are proteins that have not yet been denatured. So you can take a sauce or like a bag liquid that looks good out of the bag, and as soon as you heat it up near the boil, scum, and it looks gross, like real bad, like nasty. So, how to uh do this?
+
+[57:50] Well, the way we always used to recommend uh working, and and I don't know whether you're doing this professionally or at home. Uh, uh professionally, if you really want to do it, is you fix yesterday's sauce for today, and you use today's sauce for tomorrow because you can uh heat it and you can skim that crap off and then use the flavors that are in it as the base reduction for another sauce. But as those proteins coagulate it with it, unfortunately they're also stripping some flavor out in the same way that doing a consomme would uh strip the flavors out. But you need to get rid of all that uh coagulate. If you're doing it at home, it's hard because when you get the bag sauces out, usually you're ready to eat it now and you want to do an a la minute sauce, and for that, you're kind of up the creak, unless you use extremely reduced uh things going into it.
+
+[58:42] So if you're let's say you were gonna do like a red wine Megilla, if you extraordinarily reduce the stuff that goes into the bag beforehand, and you don't have as much juices, get this. Let's say you were to make like some sort of like a sauce, like a Bernaysie Hollandaise sauce. Then you could at the low temperature without bringing it up on the service out at service temperature, just whisk some of those juices in and get some of that flavor. If that help out, John, as long as there's not too much? Yeah.
+
+[59:06] Bernese. Uh radar, looking for ideas on French onion soup. I've done a lots and lots, but I have I haven't had bliss. I've tried pressure cooker versions. Nope.
+
+[59:14] With and without Kenji's baking soda edition. Nah, makes it mushy, and also I don't like baking soda and there's no, it makes it brown. Uh steam ovens, baking the onions, various chicken mushrooms, dashi based stocks. I avoid it, uh prefer to avoid dark beefy stocks. My favorite uh French onion soup is actually made with veal stock.
+
+[59:28] All right, here's my idea on French onion soup. Cut up an unconscionable amount of onions. Put them into a pan, and then let them go at a very, very, very, very low heat for a very long time. Then make whatever the richest stock that you like is, add it to said onions, then get you a nice piece of bread, get you some good cheese. What do you use on your French?
+
+[59:47] Great? Gruyere. Yeah, grier. Yeah. And then melt that.
+
+[59:50] Like put the bread, put the grate the stuff up, put on top, melt it over the thing, and then you eat the hell out of it. I'd also say a little sherry vinegar. Oh, yeah, yeah. I like sherry straight sherry. Yeah, that too, yeah.
+
+[1:00:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Straight sherry. Yeah. Uh, but a little bit. Yeah.
+
+[1:00:04] But the key here is just is that you can't shortcut the onions. You can't shortcut the onions. That's what you're doing here. Shortcutting the onions is is a a large mistake, especially in the pressure cooker. It's not gonna work.
+
+[1:00:15] And Joff, I don't have any new recommendations on uh sharpening stones other than DMT. But if anyone in the uh if anyone in the uh Discord has a sharpening stone that they like better than the DMT, the big one, don't say that you don't like the small one because nobody likes a small one. Nobody likes to sharpen their knives on a tiny little stone. This isn't like Boy Scouts in the 1890s. Like get a real size stone if you're using a real-size chest knife.
+
+[1:00:36] But the DMT is expensive, so if anyone has recommendations that supersede my old ones, let me know. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Art of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City, joined as usual with John here in the studio. How are you doing, John? Doing great, thanks. Yeah.
+
+[0:21] That's a lie. I can tell by looking at your face that you're hating it. But I appreciate the lie. That's a good hospitality. That's a good chef chef move.
+
+[0:29] Yeah. Get through it. Yeah. Nice. Uh Joe Hazen rocking the panels.
+
+[0:32] What's up? Hey, how are you doing? Welcome to studio. Everything's okay on your side. Me?
+
+[0:37] Yeah. And uh, but we have a huge, so like, you know, we have a huge like cast of thousands in the Los Angeles Cooking Issues Outpost. First of all, of course, we have Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How are you doing, Staz? Good.
+
+[0:52] Good. And eventually we will have Jackie Molecules. And I believe, before I, you know, introduce our guests, in the upper left, we have Quinn. Quinn, how are you doing? Oh, Jack's there.
+
+[1:01] Mr. Molaco's good, Quinn. Nice. But we have, of course, you know, many decades-long friend, friend of the show, Ariel Johnson, author of the upcoming book, Flavorama. Is that is that correct?
+
+[1:15] Flavorama, right? Yeah, that's how you should say it's too. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's coming out in March, right? As of today, you can pre-order at Kitcher Arts and Letters.
+
+[1:24] March 12th. I mean, that's uh the day before my birthday, uh my dad's birthday, day before this is the day before the Ides of March, right? That's like a good stabbing day. It's a good pre-stabbing day. Right?
+
+[1:35] Yeah. That's good, yeah. Yeah. We can work some stabbing into this. Yeah.
+
+[1:41] And then also, uh, we are very pleased to have for the uh first time on the show, Josh Scherer from uh Mythical Kitchen also coming out with a book in March. I believe it's called, is it called the Mythical Cookbook? What's the name of it? The mythical cookbook, Josh? Is that accurate?
+
+[1:54] Am I accurate? That is accurate, but the pronunciation similar to Flavorama is the mythical cookbook. I was incorrect about the title. The title of the upcoming book that Josh is coming out with, the mythical cookbook. Is that that's more accurate?
+
+[2:11] Yeah. Yeah. Daddy Mail, but thank you. So uh so explain the explain uh mythical cooking. Well, we're gonna shoot the breeze in a minute, but before we shoot the breeze, explain kind of mythical cooking, mythical good morning.
+
+[2:24] Like what's the what's the myth? What's the what's the myth? So the myth is there's no myth. The myth is a myth in itself. No, so mythical entertainment is the company I work for.
+
+[2:35] Uh the flagship show Good Mythical Morning has been around for 2500 plus episodes, many of which were filmed before I I've ever worked here. I've been here for about six years now. Uh, but they would always just mess around with their food on camera. Real simple stuff. What happens if you shove mac and cheese inside of a big Mac?
+
+[2:53] What happens if you try and make a baby shampoo taco? I don't know why that came to mind. But one day stops, stop, stop. Stop. Because baby shoe is not a baby shampoo is not toxic.
+
+[3:06] You decided to see whether it would work in in a taco, presumably what, as a thickener for the salsa or what? Uh well, so their idea just before I got here was just uh let's put baby shampoo inside the Ortega stand and stir or taco shell and eat it because it was non-toxic. Um but then uh they also did that with uh like blood tofu, you know, the congealed pork load. They decided they didn't like that. They hired me, who my background is in recipe development, it was in food media.
+
+[3:38] And so I took like their original idea of shoving just cold blood sofu into a sand and stuffed socket shell. And then I, you know, uh pasteurized the blood and then like emulsified that into a blood mole, made a little bit of like blood tarne asada, um, and uh blood pickled onions. And so I tried to really step up their food game, and now we've taken all 2500 episodes of Good Method Morning, all several hundred episodes of Mythical Kitchen, my food focus now, and shoved it into the mythical cookbook. That's right, available in March from Harbor Collins. We're gonna try to get it also maybe uh, because we have a Patreon.
+
+[4:12] Uh maybe they can get a discount for our cooking issues uh listeners for our Patreons. And if they want to join the Patreon, John, what should they do? Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Uh check it out. There are three different levels of memberships.
+
+[4:24] You get different perks at every membership or you know, every level, uh access to our Discord, uh discounts like Kitchener Some Letters and other awesome vendors that we work with. Um you get your questions answered uh in a more prioritized fashion than would otherwise have. For instance, also you have the number, you can call in uh your questions if you're a Patreon member to 917-4101507. That's 917-4101507. If you're if you're listening.
+
+[4:48] It's a little later than normal. So true. Yeah. I had the joys of going to uh yes, Quinn, what's up? Uh we forgot to mention last week for patrons.
+
+[4:59] We're also occasionally releasing um exclusive recipes, like your justice key line pie. Well, I mean, it's kind of my it was a Patreon, it's a it's a it, you know, it's a it's a Patreon member's idea, is the best culinary idea that I've heard in years. I mean, the best. I mean, clearly the best idea I've heard in years. So, Josh, here's what you key lime pie is a delicious product, right?
+
+[5:30] I agree with that, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So key lime pie is delicious. So, you know, I do this thing. I've been doing this thing for years where for cocktails, I adjust uh different juices up to the acidity of lemon or lime such that they can function in cocktail recipes.
+
+[5:45] And the patron uh, you know, one of our uh Patreon members was like, What if you did uh for key lime pie? And I have to say, it is delicious. Uh the color is always a little little wan. Speaking of color, in your upcoming book, uh, I know we're we're supposed to shoot the the trash first, but one of your recipes is for Gatorade muffins. And first of all, anytime someone uh mentions Gatorade, someone has to sing that Gatorade is Thursday for a deep down body thirst.
+
+[6:12] Who's gonna do it? Who's gonna do it? Gatorade is thirsty for a deep down body thirst, like that, right? Someone has to do it. Uh and as you said on your show.
+
+[6:25] Yeah. Uh it sounds like a must definitely. Yeah. Yeah. So you reduce the Gatorade, you reduce like two bottles of Gatorade down to like a weenie little amount, and then have a sour cream base in the muffin.
+
+[6:37] Now, is this because of your like, you know, love of uh lifting weights and gym and and sports that you went to Gatorade on this? Or what's the what's the reason for a Gatorade muffin? Uh well, the reason for the Gatorade muffin, of course, is to increase hydration. I mean, what's the number one problem with muffins in America today? Lack of salt and electrolytes.
+
+[6:59] Lack of electrolyte. What does it like the line I could not tell you what is what your body craves. Uh no. So much of what we do here, I I have a friend. This story's going somewhere.
+
+[7:09] I had a friend who worked in a chemistry lab at UC Santa Barbara right after we graduated. He was trying to like sequence the genome or something of some stem cell of a sea monkey. And I was like, is this what you're doing? Did you say sea monkey? Did you say sea monkey or monkey?
+
+[7:24] Sea monkey, a sea monkey. Yeah. Yeah. Biggest scam in the world, sea monkey. Yeah.
+
+[7:32] I think. But he said something to me that I'll never forget where he said, no, we're doing it just to know it. Nobody else has done it before. We just need to know. And sometimes that's how science works.
+
+[7:42] I have that view of cooking. I've never seen the gay raid muffin before. I needed to see what a gay ray muffin would taste like. Turns out a little, a little acidic when you reduce the syrup that much, all that should really shine through. And then there's already the sour cream and the cake battery.
+
+[7:58] And so, you know, it was a little rough, uh, but I'm glad we did it. And now you can make this recipe that sucks at home. Right. So I mean, the reason I brought it up is because I'm really velocinity and uh optimized. Yeah, where someone were used for.
+
+[8:12] Sorry. But my question was when you reduce it that much, how's the color? Because that's the main problem with the acid adjust key lime pie, is that I have to add a little bit of food coloring to it because in general, you know, key lime pies are either naturally a yellow color, which marries well with the condensed milk, or they dope it with green food coloring when they use regular lime. So, cheat, I have food coloring. Well, I'm not above it.
+
+[8:37] I'm not above it. You know what I'm saying? I mean, that's what Gatorade uses food coloring anyway. So do you overblue? First of all, apparently you're a blue man, but like uh not the group, but the Gatorade.
+
+[8:47] And then uh uh do you over blue? But I didn't see any over blue in it, or is there enough blue once you reduce it? And have you ever had enough of it that your that your number two turns green? Uh not with the gatory muffins, but I have had too much blue dice where my number two does turn green. And that was courtesy.
+
+[8:59] Listen, I love Ralph's grocery store. But one day, boy, did their cupcakes have so much food dye in them that it died by whole mouth. But with the Gatorade muffins, you would be shocked. Well, maybe not, you would be shocked, many would be shocked at how much blue food dye is in there when you produced a gallon of it, that really will permeate your dozen or so muffins uh that you create, so no overblue is needed. Yeah, you know, uh Nastasia and I like shopping at a Ralph's right, Stas.
+
+[9:34] Yes. Ralph's. It's the only grocery store you shop to that already sounds like you're vomiting. I just don't understand why it's cold. Um Yeah.
+
+[9:47] Oh, do you know when Nastasia and I, back when I was at the French Culinary Institute, we bought a whole bunch of F and D C blue dye, a powder, right? And it Nastasia wanted so badly to put it into gel caps so that people so that she could give it to people and their poo would turn green without them knowing why. But I was like, you can't I was like, you can't mess with people's insides. She's like, but they're kind of friends. And I'm like, yeah.
+
+[10:17] Nah. It's like, you know, once you're in the food business, you can no longer feed people things surreptitiously. Like you've given up the right to surreptitiously mess with people's insides once you've started doing this crap for a living, because you know, as you said in your air fryer sorry episode, like there's a certain level of trust. You know what I'm saying? Um, I felt that that was no official, but I think it's like an unspoken uh I I have a product idea.
+
+[10:44] I have a room with many learned doctors right now. And so I have a product idea, uh, speaking of messing with people's inside surreptitiously, but is there a way that you could take some sort of pill or inject something that would perfume your flatulence to say smell like a cinnamon? Ah, well, this has been a uh topic of discussion for a long time, and the only time I've ever had it happen to me was when Nastasia and I had over 200 varieties of citrus uh just uh up the mountain from Watsonville at uh the late Gene Lester's citrus farm. And uh yeah, I I pooped o OJ and it smelled apart. It was amazing.
+
+[11:24] You know, uh it was amazing. Well yeah, never never before, never again. It uh Ariel, should that be possible? I mean, uh probably not, right? Because you can't control the bacteria.
+
+[11:34] Well, like flash I mean it comes from, you know, like bacteria in your colon breaking stuff down, you know. So if you eat like a undercooked Jerusalem artichoke, that's why. Another one of the things, or if you're like pregnant, yeah, they get yeah. So um, you know, if you like put them in overdrive, they'll produce lots of gas. But like okay.
+
+[11:53] So like that bad part smells from a sulfur molecule. So like, but there are like other sulfur molecules, like in Sauvignon Blanc that smell like amazing. So I wonder if you could like encapsulate the precursors uh to the point where they'd like survive your upper digestive tract and then like feed the uh the colon bacteria. Well, what the hell are you doing here now? Why are we not gonna do that?
+
+[12:16] Right. I mean, I mean, so Ariel, chem chemically, there's a couple of different things that could be going on, right? So like there are a couple of different approaches. One, you could try to neutralize like the Fabriz effect, literally like like make your farts have Fabris in them, right? That's one way to go.
+
+[12:31] Right. Another way is to try to modify what the bacteria are producing. Right. See, so it's like, you know. Yeah.
+
+[12:38] The other would be a low residue diet. What like what the smell minus smell would be like, I don't I don't know. Uh I mean you can probably kind of like both of them, like microencapsulate a like a cyclodextrin in such a way that it like stayed encapsulated until it reached your colon or like right after. Um but uh I don't know. Like considering that like all those bacteria love eating fiber and cyclodextrin is basically the carbohydrate, like they might actually like eat it and do something weird with it.
+
+[13:09] Well, so my idea is this doesn't paint out, you just kind of shove a dryer sheet up there, isn't it? I was gonna say, like, there's there's always a suppository around. Yeah, yeah. Well, so you're you're like uh I mean, I'm sure somebody makes like uh ch like ch activated charcoal like chonis, right? They have to.
+
+[13:26] Someone has to. So it's like, you know, going through a couple layers of stuff on the way out. I'm sure that happens already. You know? Uh you know, I don't know whether I've discussed it before, but maybe you see Davis' fistulated cow.
+
+[13:39] Yeah. Did you ever see that? Did you ever go to Cornell and see the fish related cow? Oh, well, we had one at Davis, but I never saw it. I saw a regular cow at the Davis and not the uh it turns out uh it's not so good for the cow to have a permanent hole in its stomach.
+
+[13:55] By the way, fish related cow, for those of you that don't know, they put a porthole into the side of a cow so that eggs and then you can literally open like a door uh like put your fist into the cow's stomach and be like, oh, that's what it looks like when they're like half ruminated, right? Not good for the c turns out that it's not a good idea from the cow's perspective. Shocking. But we evolved that a field single digestive system like from Yeah. Yeah, Quinn.
+
+[14:28] They're proud of it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like Quinn, imagine if they someone was shoving the if you had students coming to your to your place every day, shoving hands in there, that would be a different story. You know what I mean?
+
+[14:38] Yeah, you you're gonna you know the diameter for like extra holes in your Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, some of those act students are are big fisted folk too. You know what I mean? It's not like they're dainty hands, you know, they're farmers. You know?
+
+[14:52] Now I'm trying to imagine a farmer with type. Yeah. You know. Uh so uh again, I don't know if I mentioned this, but I had to uh research uh tooting quite a bit when I was doing the beans article. And here's something that you Oh yeah, yeah.
+
+[15:09] So you'd think that this would be something that you would know, like you know, actually I don't know my blood type. I know it's either A or B, but I don't know which one. I can't forget. Yeah, whatever. If I get hit, I get hit.
+
+[15:17] But they but you've we're most of us are either a hydrogen person or a methane person, right? So like some of us fart methane, and some of us fart predominantly hydrogen, and you'd think that you would kind of know what kind of person you were. Like maybe you would like go to like groups where you're like, we're hydrogen people. Oh no, no, yeah, we're methane people. You know what I mean?
+
+[15:39] But it's not something that people know. No one analyzes it and tries to figure out like which is their, you know, primary combustible gas that comes out the backside. It's just not something people using hydrogen. Red meat increases methane production and put it in. I don't know.
+
+[15:59] I I did a similar yeah. So it's I think it's something that we should kind of promote since people promote learning everything about their bodies. Yeah. Because I honestly what I think is that uh as a culture we need something else to worry about with our bodies and feel guilty about. So yeah.
+
+[16:19] So we need to crack you. It's like it's like how they invented cellulite as a problem to uh you know sell various things to women so now we can uh to bodybuilders eating too much routine sell uh uh yeah fart fart fart okay I'm doing my part in the fart positivity game because at the gym I go to a public gym I will fart with impunity and to me it's it's not even mark me territory but it's like an invitation for everybody to come towards me and say it's okay we all do this. Are you best friends with Nastasia? Because that's her view. Nastasia is the queen of the airplane farter.
+
+[16:52] She is the airplane fart queen she can she can mist up like three rows in any direction. And then she's like why don't you want to sit next to me on the plane. First of all we're both deathly afraid of flying and so you don't want two people who are afraid of flying to be next to each other. It's a bad idea. You know I mean and then you know like fear plus toots plus first of all like I have fear sweat.
+
+[17:15] You know how bad fear sweat smells like I sweat quite a bit but my sweat doesn't smell like fear sweat. But on an airplane that fear sweat it's its own it's its own McGill. You know what I'm saying? I don't like it. Don't like it.
+
+[17:27] Yeah. Hey I see uh for those of you that can watch the video uh on uh later on Patreon, I see that there is another silent guest uh sitting in between Josh and Ariel, and that is the uh the new spinzole you should gotta put a smiley face on that sucker. Yeah. Yeah. Have you have you opened it yet, Nastasha?
+
+[17:45] Someone get a Sharpie. But put a smiley face on it. Nice. All right. It's getting close, people.
+
+[17:51] It's getting close. Uh all right. So uh seeing as how we've already uh shot the breeze for 20 minutes. Has anyone had any interesting culinary experiences uh this uh week they want to talk about? Anybody?
+
+[18:03] anybody nobody nothing? What about at the restaurant? Let it go. They're drawing while they're drawing a smiley face, Quinn. I know you have something.
+
+[18:18] I know you have something, Quinn. What's up? Uh I made some bread. It turned out okay. I'm being a weird issue.
+
+[18:25] Very descriptive, Quinn. What kind of bread and in what way only okay? Uh a thirty-three percent freshly milled flour. Okay. Uh kind of sourdough.
+
+[18:40] I guess more accurately, like a mother starter. Because I did start with yeast like three weeks ago. Yeah, a couple questions. One, why start a sourdough starter with yeast if you're gonna do it three weeks ago? You can just start it normally if you're gonna start it three weeks ago.
+
+[18:57] I've been using it. Okay. I started just a mother starter and then whatever. Whatever. Like because I think the sourdough, honestly, with sourdough, I think it's do whatever in the hell you want.
+
+[19:08] Anyone who's a purist about sourdough needs to bang their head against the wall for themselves. Don't make other people feel bad about what they do. Just do whatever you like. That's my feeling. But now you're doing like, well, first of all, the word batard is a ridiculous.
+
+[19:25] It's a ridiculous word. It sounds like Jean-Luc Picard. It does not, it's the dumbest. Not the dumbest. What?
+
+[19:31] You guys like it? You're pro-bitar. I'm no what what? Am I am I getting some backlash? You guys are pro batard?
+
+[19:36] No, right? The word? Say it say it in French. I've never I've got pretty neutral on there. So it seems like it's it seems like a meaningful word.
+
+[19:45] Like somebody says Picard, I know what they're trying to do. It sounds like a mixture of bastard and Picard. I don't know. It's like, anyway, the other thing is why only 33% and then only use 33%. I am I am why?
+
+[20:03] I mean, I'm I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just asking why. Are we gonna get into this again? Uh no. We're gonna have to have one of our old school stupid arguments later, I'm sure.
+
+[20:15] If well, we'll do it towards the end. We'll do it. Not you and I, Quinn. Not you. I mean, I mean, should we should we ask do you guys should be mute or area else?
+
+[20:25] If they care. Do you guys are you interested in milling your own flour? Is this something you guys care about or think about on a on a daily basis? Uh no, but I did it in a Vitamix one, and it worked uh well enough. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[20:39] I've done a lot of side-by-sides on that. So back when I was writing my second cookbook before I was told to stop writing my second cookbook to redo my first one. Well, it's cocktail book. Uh I originally said that a Vitamix sucks at making flour and that only a moron would use a Vitamix to make flour instead of a a mill. And uh and then I ran the side by side taste test with the mill and the Vitamix, and it turns out the Vitamix is it's okay.
+
+[21:04] It's not like it's not the best in the world, but it's also pretty, it's also decent. It's also pretty it it works fine. Uh and so I was like, damn it. Because like, you know, I set up this huge test and I did all of this work t to prove that you couldn't do a good job in the Vitamix, and damn if you can't, son of a gun. You know what I mean?
+
+[21:25] Without sifting to get like uniform particle size. Yeah, so that's the thing. So you you sift you sift in between grinds and put it back in is the best way to do it. Um it's like the difference between a coffee grinder and a burr grinder. The main problem with a Vitamix from an N flower point of view, it depends on whether you like I I typically do um like a a sift, like a like a high high high high um extraction, like I get 85%.
+
+[21:53] Most of the stuff that's sifted out is brand because in in a mill, the brand comes out coarser. So one of the issues with a Vitapep is you tend to, when you're re-milling and sifting, you tend to pulverize the brand. So if you're gonna do full whole wheat, I think it works uh better than if you are trying to get a uh a sifted thing, but also you get really ridiculous fines with a Vitamix, which is good if you like classic super fine um flour. I'm also very pro um like damage, like for certain things, damaged, damaged. Like I know you like uh uh Josh, like flatbread scenarios, uh you know, at least you mentioned them.
+
+[22:30] Uh and so I don't know if you know this, but like, you know, Indian, and that's another phrase I hear you you say a lot. I say it a lot. I don't know if you know this, but uh Indian um flour, the whole whole mill staata is ground very hot. So there's a lot of starch damage. So I would imagine that if you just blended the ever loving snot out of it till it got uh hot and start starch damaged, that it would actually make a decent uh shapati.
+
+[22:55] So there you have it. I haven't run that test yet, though. Have not run it yet. But you need a very fine flour with a lot of starch damage. And why, John?
+
+[23:01] Do you want the starch damage? Why? Why? Why? So it absorbs more moisture.
+
+[23:06] So that you can have a drier, more machinable chipati, right? Of course. Come on, man. Of course, yeah. Damn it.
+
+[23:14] My bad. You know what sucks? You know what sucks? Being someone who only makes that kind of stuff like once every couple of months. And so at the end of the night, everything puffs well, and then the next time you start, you're a jerk again.
+
+[23:26] You know what I'm saying? Yep. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible.
+
+[23:31] Terrible. Uh what am I missing? Am I missing anything? Or should we start talking stuff? Oh, you got anything good at the restaurant, John?
+
+[23:38] Been working on water zooy. Uh specifically Ghent's style one, which is fish. It's also a weird name for a soup, right? It's a soup, isn't it? Yeah, it's like a s soupy, stewy kind of hybrid thing.
+
+[23:51] I mean, if an American came up with it, what would be in it? What would water zooey be if we came up with it? I don't know. I mean, it's originally using freshwater fish from the canals, but that doesn't matter. It sounds gross as hell.
+
+[24:01] Yes. Um, so you want a fish that's uh you want a fish that lives in poop? Well, you can make it with tilapia now. That's true. That's true.
+
+[24:09] Yeah, yeah. Well, that's uh I know you love that the Osman, babe. Oh man, nothing nothing better than the stuff stink of dirt. Oh, should we should we explain to Josh if he's not aware? Uh well, Josh Jasmine is the smell of dirt, and uh we lost our video.
+
+[24:31] That's fine. Jasmine is a smell of dirt. And um so I bought some smell of dirt to make a dirt martini, and it was the worst thing ever. But Ariel did the calculations afterwards and calculated that I had added enough Jasmine to to make what what smell bad there, Ariel. Like how large of a unit could I have made smell bad.
+
+[24:52] At least an Olympic size swimming pool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So not like a one guy. Yeah. This is a problem with uh or like the di the the sort of danger of uh uh pure flavor molecules is like because you I mean you did a reasonable thing.
+
+[25:07] You did serial dilution, so you made like a one percent solution of it and then took a tiny amount of that. But the problem is there's like a few molecules that we can smell at like parts per trillion levels um that uh yeah, you need to go like a few steps order of magnitude further to get it in the like the okay range. I mean the good news though, right? Is that uh we're not really you know, correct me if I'm wrong. But sigmoid is there's a sigmoid, uh there's a there's a sigmoid relationship.
+
+[25:38] So I was in saturation zone. So if I if I'd added 20 drops, it probably would have seemed the same, right? Oh yeah. After a certain concentration, you like can't get the receptors to respond more. Yeah, yeah, baby.
+
+[25:49] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Over the top. Uh all right, let's get to the Patreon questions for Josh before we do anything else.
+
+[25:56] That way I will have gotten to them before, you know, I have to get into I have to get into some of this stuff like hot dogs and stuff. Uh although I don't really don't want to talk about hot dogs as a sandwich, but I feel like I'm gonna have to, but I don't want to, like, at all. Like not at all. You know, I have a I have actually a new uh piece of uh uh opinion to inject into that. Okay.
+
+[26:20] Uh I think the real question is are all of those things tacos, since the taco predates the sandwich by approximately five thousand years? It does, but it doesn't. Well, okay, so tortillas, like yeah, the eating a uh a customer with stuff on it. Because we have we have an actual very firm start date for the sandwich, uh since we call it the sandwich. Oh, well, you know, tacos like it's not printed until like the mid to late 1800s, which to me is nuts.
+
+[26:48] But you see the word like tamali, which is tamali has a several thousand years old etymological root to like Nawata language, right? Uh in like it's very similar, but taco for whatever reason doesn't enter the lexicon until late. And so for me, a taco has to uh be uh like an unleavened tortilla. Yeah, I don't count like a little bit of sodium bicarbonate in there. We'll count that as leavened.
+
+[27:09] So this this kind of argument is the same argument as there are exactly two creatures on Earth. There are sea cucumbers that poop out of their mouth and there are worms that poop out of their butts. So we are worms. Like it's the same argument. You know what I mean?
+
+[27:24] Like the fact of the matter is when I go out for a freaking sandwich, I don't get hot dogs. And when I go to a hot dog stand, I don't get I don't get a uh a freaking Reuben. Like that's all there is. I mean taxonomically, sorry, you brought up sea cucumbers. We are actually more closely related to sea cucumbers than we are to like arthropods.
+
+[27:44] Uh except we have butts. So, you know, like yeah, but like I believe making this up for I believe the animal. There's a question of UNI. What type of shellfish is uni? Is it a mollusk or is it an arthropod?
+
+[27:58] And it's a kinoderm. It's an echinoderm. Okay. Right, right. But what is an echinoderm?
+
+[28:04] It's another phylum. It's a whole phylum. It's also got no buttons. But it's closer to vertebrates than the than other invertebrates. I I could be a hundred percent wrong in this, but I think the butt, I think the butt was a one-time innovation.
+
+[28:14] I think the anus came about one time. I don't think that it's no, I think this is a uh yeah, it's not like carcinovation where uh the the butt the anus has been uh uh evolved many times in the course of uh in this stuff today that I thought they're doing a really stone happen. I mean, yeah, so to be clear to think about hot dicing sandwiches. I'm happy to be wrong, but the butt is a one-time event. One time event butt.
+
+[28:44] One butt event. Go ahead. We need to adopt the Mexican Spanish taxama taxonomical definition of a sandwich. Because we have a lot of Mexican listeners reach out to us and say, for us, you know, in Britain they'll call a chicken burger, right? What we would call a fried chicken sandwich.
+
+[29:04] Anything on a round bun, this is a bun-based taxonomy. Wait, so torta is not a sandwich? Torta's not a sandwich. No, uh a tartas a tortoise. A torta is a tortoise.
+
+[29:26] Do you know what else it is? It's delicious. Torta's delicious. Uh I always c categorize that as a sandwich, but I would never go to a regular sandwich place, like like a deli sandwich place, and be like, you know what? Get me the torta that you don't know how to make.
+
+[29:50] You know what I mean? That wouldn't happen. Well, what is a regular sandwich place? Right, yeah. I mean, I wasn't colonialism to uh use an 18th century British term as a uh standard for many mentality.
+
+[29:59] That's the English language term for it. That's the English language term for it, right? You know, in the same way that like you know, we call T T doesn't mean that we, you know, one the when the word tea came about is when when tea was invented. You know what I mean? Like in English we call we call certain things sandwiches, but then saying, are these things that we don't call sandwiches also sandwiches?
+
+[30:25] That's getting away from uh, you know, linguistics and into uh philosophy. I think that's exactly the point. What is the English language word sandwich mean? Right? That's the question.
+
+[30:37] What does the English word sandwich mean? And it don't mean a hot dog. Yeah. Well, I mean, this actually was brought up in the Minnesota state. The Minnesota State Supreme Court had to legislate whether or not a burrito was a sandwich.
+
+[30:50] Interesting. Uh, because there was a non-compete clause with a Panera bread that had moved into a mall, uh-huh. And it said that no other sandwich competitors can move in. Then a Qdoba moves in and Panera sues the mall saying that you let another sandwich competitor in because they sell burritos. Right.
+
+[31:04] So if they're a real life taxable indication, there are. Yeah. And I'm so glad we've gotten hours of conference. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[31:10] I don't know. Because like I normally go buy sandwiches full of pounds of rice. So burrito, you know, makes sense. You know, get me, get me, get me a rice sandwich, but first can you steamroll the bread until it's flat as hell? You know what I'm saying?
+
+[31:24] It's like, no. Anyway. Uh I feel that that's kind of the way I feel about like people who are really uptight about like misspellings and typos. Where they're like, oh, well, you misspelled this, so you're a moron. I'm like, but you knew what I was talking about.
+
+[31:39] So therefore, the like language was communicated and it served as purpose. Well, Ariel, that's exactly that's exactly my point. You'd be like, no, that's not a sandwich. Well but that's exactly that's exactly my point. Saying that a hot dog is a sandwich is non-communicative because it's not the kind of thing you communicate in if you want a hot dog.
+
+[31:58] It's not it's not uh discursively useful. It's like saying a a reason is a sandwich. It's I mean uh the difference between you know a uh hummus and alfalfa sprout sandwich on wheat versus like a uh Reuben on a giant hero is one tastes good and the other sucks sandwich. That's the difference. One tastes good and the other one is a rancid piece of crap that should never be made if I can talk about one more court case this is my stuff that says Bimbo versus the United States I believe in the year 2000 where they are importing uh hard shell taco shells and the US is trying to tax them as chips because they are right very similar to chips.
+
+[32:38] They're against the wall it becomes chip. It is also fried massacre but Bimbo successfully argued that they were a form of bread and when it comes down to tariffs on this stuff it's basically like you're trying to disincentivize snack food and incentivize whole meals. Right so you let subway bread cake in Ireland you know and so they successfully basically the United States to say that no this is a sandwich for I think another like judges going wild because I am totally pro nacho's nachos as a meal is very uh is a real meal. Nachos as a meal is as good of a meal as Frito Pie is a meal. No, no, no.
+
+[33:19] But in other words, saying that a chip saying that a chip can't be a dinner item and it's only for snacks, I think is is uh is a boneheaded. It's bone-headed, it's wrong. It's incorrect. Wrong. Narrow minded.
+
+[33:28] Yeah. It's like, you know, look, it but it's always when a judge has to make some stupid tax call, like tomatoes getting called a fruit, right? Like tomatoes got called a vegetable for the purpose of taxes in like whatever it was, like 1910, 1920, you know. Everyone likes to do this. Is Brancusi art or not?
+
+[33:45] How are we going to tax the art when it comes in? It's always judges having to make these dumb decisions based on stupid trade regulations, you know? Dumbuts, dumb butts. You know what? You know what?
+
+[33:56] Speaking of tomatoes being a fruit or a vegetable, what always bothers me is that like if if I'm writing something and I'm like on a scientist, and I say like the vegetables like tomatoes, people want to like crawl it by apple. Like, okay, what's that? Eggplants, zucchinis, green beans, red peppers, and about four or five other things, and everyone always thoughts of that as vegetables, and like nobody gets on like pedantic about those things. Yeah, but then the and all fruits are vegetables. So, like vegetable is not like a specific plant part, it just is part of a plant.
+
+[34:31] So, like tomato is both a fruit and a vegetable. And not all fruit, not all fruits are fruits. You know what I mean? Not all things that we call fruits are fruits. Multiple aches.
+
+[34:40] Some are drooped. Yeah. Some are aches. Yeah. An apple is actually most of the parts you eat don't come from the ovary, but from the like swollen uh like the part of the plant right down from the flower.
+
+[34:53] So it's like most of it, yeah, like the you know like the little circle around the seeds? That's the only part that's actually like botanic and the fruit. Come from the the front from the ovary of the plant. And then the all the stuff around it comes from like other plant tissue. And strawberries aren't berries, but I want it in my red berry smoothie, goddammit.
+
+[35:10] Wait, what's not a berry? America. A raspberry, not a berry. Well then like cumin cumin is a fruit. Yeah, so like an a king fruit get this blackberries are always disappointing when you buy 'em in a store.
+
+[35:27] You need to pick your own blackberries. Blackberries in a store are disappointing. They're always like very sad that don't really have a lot of I've never had a black blackberry. Really? Oh they're good.
+
+[35:40] Where who's tasting more to go to like Vermont or say listen Denmark. You first of all you gotta you gotta love the you gotta love the fact that it's gonna have that weird hard thing in the middle. Get to love that. It's not a raspberry people. Right?
+
+[35:58] Get to love that and then they're not water bags when you pick 'em yourself the first of all, like in Brambles there's always one or two that are water bags and then you find the good one you're like ah and then you eat it, but you can't buy 'em. All the ones you buy are just at best water bags because they're always moldy by the time they get to you and man that little sousson of mold on top of the water with the hard thing in the middle. Also commercial mulberries suck. Commercial mulberries are without worse. You know mulberry tree to tree.
+
+[36:28] Tree to tree baby. Even a good mulberry is okay. I I once ate two pounds of Costco blackberries in one sitting in a laundromat. And I had a pretty good time. So no, I thought I'd be able to do that.
+
+[36:57] My uh my favorite uh supermarket berry are the commercial blueberries when they're good. Not when they're too big, but when they still have some acidity to them and they haven't started going soft. So I used to buy quarts of them and then drink them out of quart containers. Not making smoothies, just remember that, Staz. Quartz and quartz of blueberries.
+
+[37:19] Sometimes I would steal it from the storeroom. I'd be like, we're doing a demo. We need a bunch of blueberries. And they would give us the blueberries and you know that you can't uh so every uh item on earth has a dump angle. And uh the dump angle is is that if you were to dump the crap in a pile, what would the angle of pyramid that it forms make, right?
+
+[37:43] And so all different materials have different dump angles. So it turns out that uh blueberries, you can't effectively drink blueberries out of a pint container. You need a quart container. Even if you're only drinking a pint of blueberries, you need a quart container to get the angle right. It just doesn't work out of a out of a half pint.
+
+[38:04] Yeah, you well, you just need to be able to pop it back. It's best to half fill the quart and then twice. You're better off half filling the but if you're using a full quart, you can kind of like off the top of it and then get to a point where you can start pouring it into your face. Yeah. Are you squeezing the pork container a little bit to sort of give yourself a runway directly into the mountain?
+
+[38:24] No, no, no. It's not a contest. I do this for fun. This is not like a hot dog eating contest. I'm not trying to mash them.
+
+[38:31] I own a blender. If I want to smash them. Please. Please. All right.
+
+[38:38] From Do you believe that L Butts is L butts or L Butts? Probably Lutz. I believe it's a butus. Uh anyway. Uh yeah.
+
+[38:53] Anyway. Question for Josh. Uh by the way, we have a Josh who I swear to God, who uh is a Patreon member. Uh and his uh what's it called? Instagram is a hot dog is a sandwich.
+
+[39:06] His name is Josh, and he has a spins all tattoo. So this is a question for you, and not for a hot dog as a sandwich, Josh, who has a spins all tattoo that says all I do is spin, spin, spin, no matter what. Uh okay. Now that we are all aware of how Whoa, whoa, whoa, you said pointless uh blenders are pointless. I need more on this.
+
+[39:25] He says now that we are all aware of how pointless blenders are, what is the second most useless gadget in the kitchen? And why do you think as a follow-up question, why are blenders useless? I know you hate air fryers because that's correct, but why is it that I mean I love convection cooking. Don't call it frying. But go ahead.
+
+[39:44] Uh talk to me about blenders. Uh I believe they're referencing a short form video we made a TikTok, if you will, where I said that blenders are useless and I prefer to crush everything in a bag, and I proceeded to make a uh hand crush protein shake inside of a gallon ziplock by just beating the crap out of all the ingredients of the meat mallet, cutting a hole in it, and typing it in my mouth. Now that was what we call a joke in the industry. I love blenders. I live my blender constantly, but other uses.
+
+[40:21] Yeah, it was terrible. I got a lot of broken plump protein stuck in my teeth. Although not good. I think we need to I think you're on to something here because uh I think again, like back to making yourself feel guilty. You know that like trend to make everything a workout.
+
+[40:29] Put everything through a Tammy. If you had to put everything that you ever needed to be fine through a Tammy the way they used to do, you'd have a lot less moose style things in the world. You know what I mean? Just my feeling. My least favorite, yeah, it's it's so funny.
+
+[40:51] One of our culinary producers here um left a Michelin starred kitchen to come work with us and Lily. If you're listening, we're so grateful to have you shout out to Kato. Um, but she the main difference in the way that we cook is she runs every single thing through a candy. And it's like, really, we're not very woman. You don't have to do that.
+
+[41:09] She's you know, yeah, straight and through it. Yeah, she had like pocket full of squeeze. If we have to a tami, like we still do if uh if you work in certain kitchen. We don't even have two and four case, so you can't even put it in the floor. I mean, it's happened again.
+
+[41:26] It's so demented to own a vita prep and then put it through a Tammy, it's just means you hate everything about your own life and the people that you work with. You know what I'm saying? It's like the whole point of the of the Vitapep is that it gets rid of all a few exceptions. Like if you're gonna blend whole walnuts, but then that's gonna ruin your Tammy anyway. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[41:48] Oh man. Old days. Wait, wait, okay, small days for a cannon. Air fryers. Why uh because I initially thought that what an air fryer was when I heard the name was something that took small particulates of oil and circulated them in a tornado motion to like aerosolized.
+
+[42:08] That's a relatively better idea. Basically, uh hyper spray. Yeah. And so creating the effect of frying without without droplets. Yeah.
+
+[42:14] Yeah. But then when I figured out it was just a very powerful convection of it lived on your, you know, countertop, I was like, I felt like I was fooled. Um, but so many people I know love their air fryer. It's gotten them into cooking more. And I mean, you know, my future mother-in-law bragging about her air fried uh what are they the like the tobacco leaks, you know what I mean?
+
+[42:38] Like the fried leeks they use with garnish. Oh yeah, and loved it. She loved this salad from a restaurant at the Jersey Shore she she used to go to the kid, and she'd never so bring yourself to deep fry the leeks, but she did it in the air fryer, and she finally got to experience the sound. It was beautiful hearing her talk about this. So I feel guilty about my air fryer hate, but I would love for you to bring me back.
+
+[42:57] Does uh does she live alone? She does, yeah. Yeah. So air fryer is great if you need to make one leaf. Or like a French fry.
+
+[43:08] You know what I mean? So like if you have the appetite of a small uh animal and you live alone and only need to make one serving, then yeah, damn. I can evaporate the the you know the the moisture on the surface of something with my pseudo-impingement oven, you know, lickety split. As soon as people come over, you're like, why is this recipe not working anymore? I can't even make tater tots in this dang thing.
+
+[43:29] What the hell is going on? It's because uh it doesn't have enough power. It just doesn't have enough power. If you move to Europe, maybe it could have a three kilowatt unit and maybe it would work. But then you could just get a three kilowatt fryer.
+
+[43:41] Like those uh British electric huddles that uh water started sucking there. Listening microwave might team, damn it. Uh we're not gonna Do you know what it gets so pathetic? Like back before Bed Bath and Beyond. First of all, it went when I was young, you there was like a host of crappy houseware stores that you could walk into, right?
+
+[44:03] And I know yeah, Amazon, yeah, but I like walking in and like touching all the stuff, right? And we had different levels. So the lowest end was lectors. So if you just needed some bull crap, you would go to lectors and get some bull crap because you needed to cook right now. Not tomorrow, not two days prime.
+
+[44:21] I'm cooking now and I need another pan. You go to lectors. They went out of business. Now Bloodbath and Beyond is out of business. That pissed me off, right?
+
+[44:29] I don't know where I was. Oh, so but towards the end of that crap, this may be the reason they went out of business. They're like, everyone's healthy. They stopped selling fryers. And they only I was like, where are the fryers?
+
+[44:38] They're like, oh, the air fryers over there. I did not say that. Where are the fryers? You know what I mean? And like they stopped selling them.
+
+[44:45] No wonder they went out of business. Jerks. Idiots. Frying is God's technique. Most clearly, frying is God's cooking technique, right?
+
+[44:53] Yeah. Because it it it's the one that we had to to work the longest to figure out. First we needed to be able to render that much fat. Then we needed to be able to hold it in a device. Then we needed to be able to heat it reliably.
+
+[45:05] Right. So like it's the last of them. Boiling in skins, that's old. Cooking with stones, oven, steam, bearing, all that crap. Early.
+
+[45:12] Frying. It's the apogee. It's the height. We were like, we figured it out. We're like, yes.
+
+[45:18] Yes. And then why you know, why why stop? My feelings. Would you know other major cooking techniques invented? Is that surely the apex?
+
+[45:27] Yeah. You know, like when I never thought of it because I mean, frying is still thousands and thousands of of years old, right? Yeah. Surely there were other like mixer cooking advancements. I mean, like the whisk, but now like tools, but not the cooking cakes.
+
+[45:43] Yeah. I'm trying to think. You know who doesn't like whisps? That's the coach stuff to eat for it. Yeah.
+
+[45:51] Man, what would you sold me if I ever needed another investigation for funnel cakes? Yeah. Look, you know what? You're like, you know what? This uh banner is kind of boring when I just put it on a hot stone.
+
+[46:02] What if I were to deep fry this stuff? Like, have you invented powder sugar yet? No, don't worry, you will. You know what I mean? Don't worry.
+
+[46:09] You will. Um, wait, did you have a s for for L butts, did you have a second uh gadget that you're gonna do this to and uh and uh declare useless knife sharpeners? Uh like a honing rod or like a micro sharpener. Like any kind of sharpener that's not a stone. Oh yeah.
+
+[46:34] But honing rod is honing, that's not sharing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Hold on, no, no, no. We're talking about we're when we're talking about like uh language being used to communicate ideas.
+
+[46:44] When you hone a knife, it cuts things more better, right? Right? Yeah, but sharpening refers to actually removing metal from the blade and honing just aligns it. Well, I would say that like to sharpen a knife, you sharpen a knife because you want it to cut things more better. If you use a honing rod to cut things more better, are you not like in a colloquial way sharpening?
+
+[47:05] Because that to me, that's another thing where I'm like, let me sharpen a knife real quick and use a honing rod. And I don't say that often, but to me, that's my tomatoes or actually a fruit. I'm like, I grind my knife on this little rob that I have for ten seconds and it cuts the onion more better. Ergo, is the sharpener. Well, first of all, first of all, first of all, old school, old school steels don't have grits.
+
+[47:27] Right? That's it, that's another issue that comes up. Does your steel actually have grid on it or not? Because old school steels were literally steel, and my butchers would use the bat like if you look at old school butchers, they use the back of their knife as a steel. Oh the back of one knife.
+
+[47:40] That's why they sit there doing that because when they're about to kill you or cut up meat, because they want to go through you quickly, right? Back, back, back, back, back, back, strap, shape, shlap, slap, shlap. But are you using a uh steel with a grid on it? In which case you are doing both. You are realigning the edge and actually using an abrasive.
+
+[47:56] I'm asking. Oh yeah. No, I'm using one with a grid. I can't remember how like I can find those nine one, yeah. You are doing both.
+
+[48:06] You are you were doing both, and so you have the best of both worlds, and you can tell everyone to go hang. Uh I I think most cooking devices, most cooking equipment has a use if you are going to use it. The one that has caused me the most strife in my own life and personal relationship is a toaster oven. We have a limited limited amount of counter space, and we even have a separate island filled with cooking equipment that's in our living room, um, and this giant toaster oven that I can't stand that my fiance never uses because I cook everything, it's just sitting there, and I could put more weightless supplements on that counter if I wanted something. But first of all, that's that's that is like I mean, my son like uses those things, and like one pound of those supplements takes up like a garage full.
+
+[48:51] I don't understand why you need to put all those things into such large freaking containers. It's the dumbest thing in the world. And like, holy crap. Uh here it's like call it full of thousands of bucks and my kitchen. I would literally he would leave that crap in the kitchen and I would literally pick it up with with a pinky because it's so light, a can that was like the size of like a fifty almost like a fifty five gallon drum, open his door, throw it in and be like, keep your protein filth out of the kitchen.
+
+[49:19] You know what I mean? Like I was like because it was just so irritating, but I I tell you how different we are. When we were when when my kids were young, they decided they wanted to start cooking. They couldn't use my oven because my oven was hot rotted, like really hot rotted. And so no one in the house felt safe using my oven.
+
+[49:37] And um, so they were like, I was like, I'm gonna get him a toaster oven, and the deal was is that what I had to give up was my meat slicer. So I actually gave up a real meat slicer for a toaster oven. For my kids. I would use the meat flavor so much more often. Yeah, the toaster up.
+
+[49:55] I missed the meat slicer. I I found that meat slicer on the street, and I I I had to complete like literally on the street, I had to completely disassemble it, and it never got to the point I couldn't replace the the linear bearings, so I'd sanded them, but the way I would do it is there was a there's an Allen key on my old one that adjusts the play in it. So I would loosen that so that I could move it and then have to tighten it in between setting the the things, but it sliced like a champ. Like a chelp. Oh, I love meat slicers.
+
+[50:28] God, I love meat slicers. Do you know what you should not do? You should not make cell phone calls when you're using a meat slicer. It's a really bad idea. Um will tell you that.
+
+[50:41] Uh more on moron lobnet. What like I wonder why moron labni. They love labna and they're also a moron? Probably. Probably.
+
+[50:53] Anyway, for Ariel. Uh what's going on with uh lemon cello and key lime flavor? Uh do Okay, how do you say the uh the the LaCroix beverage? Do you pronounce it like a French person or how do how do Americans what are we supposed to call that crap? LaCroix.
+
+[51:09] LaCroix? LaCroix. Oh La Croix. LaCroix. LaCroix?
+
+[51:17] Is it a sippy company? Uh there's a lot of strange like French for trapper names. Yeah, yeah. I believe that they have the Midwest and so is uh economically. All right, so Moron Lavna wants to know what's going on with have you had the lemon cello and the key lime flavor?
+
+[51:34] Both have flavors I expect, and then sort of creamy milky lactic acid type note that I most closely associate with the yogurt drink, yakled. Never had yakold. Oh yeah. I've had yeah, unlike in Japan, I've had yakold. Uh sorry, what is the question?
+
+[51:49] How did I taste? I haven't tasted either of those laCroix, but I might be able to answer a question about what's going on with them. All flavored seltzer taste like poison to me. Wait, let me check. Let me check if we have it.
+
+[52:03] Like, are we talking about why does it taste creamy? No, why doesn't it? No. Oh no, both have the uh creamy lactic. They both have a creamy lactic stuff.
+
+[52:12] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I you wouldn't use that clearly by aroma. I mean, actually, creamy like creaminess, the the sensation of creaminess, uh we typically think of it as just textural, but in fact, um it is a mixture of like texture, particle size, and aroma. So uh uh I would not be surprised if uh just oh wow. Yeah, both amazing.
+
+[52:39] Let me ask you. So uh start with the lemon cello. Does a lemon cello taste like sugar and detergent because that's what lemon cello tastes like uh it's an alcoholic sugar detergent product so like I mean I'd better creamy creamy mid note but creamy mid note dot com. All right. Well you're tasting these and getting ready.
+
+[52:59] Yeah I don't there's probably some like vanillin and like maybe some kind of like slightly listen for those of you for those of you that can't see what's going on because you're not a Patreon member. Ariel is doing the full she's doing the full tasting thing. She's like putting it over her palate, doing the mouth movements. Like she's actually pretending that this is a real product that she should be tasting. Sorry so asking a flavor question and uh uh so I'm answering it on earnestly like fuck around like family show saying that oh sorry sorry yeah so uh yeah it's kind of remarkable most most flavors don't come from like one glitter molecule like how poisonous is it I just want to know how poisonous it is for example because it's famously you have to and I do have a point with this um so strawberry very famously you can't really like replicate by getting a strawberry molecule there isn't one you have to like include four or five different notes.
+
+[54:04] So you need like a generic fruity note, a kind of green note, a slightly blue cheese note, but also a caramel note. So like like there is a there's a quality stuff and it is like innately caramelly. So and I think they have something like that in in these. What is the blue cheese note in the strawberry? It's like the little bit just kinda like butyric acid.
+
+[54:28] Yeah. Yeah. So we'll looks like a little tiny bit cheesy. Yeah. So like you think like, oh, that sounds good.
+
+[54:34] Like without it, it has no gravity tops. So speaking of cheesy vomit smell with butyric acid, how poisonous are these flavors? How bad are they? Like on a scale of like bad to really, really bad, how bad are they? I mean, I don't mind LaCroix.
+
+[54:48] So are they are these the same flavors except one has lime essence and one has lemon essence, but the rest of the base is the same because that's what it tastes like to me. I mean, so like hold on. While you're debating that, uh I'm I'm the take that uh flavor is based on the croix has no sugar or acid added, so the flavor actually only comes from aroma. So like is the flavor the same, but lemon essence, I guess like the they're the the they're not different things. But I'm saying no, between the things that's a good thing.
+
+[55:33] Yeah, exactly. Probably funny. Yeah, probably like lots of uh lemon green and uh a couple other terpenes in there. I love it. I want you guys.
+
+[55:43] But uh like uh here's an experiment you should run. It's in my book, so I probably shouldn't tell you and you should go buy the new version of the book if and when it comes out. But if you were to water down uh a flavored seltzer with seltzer water, it's still flavored seltzer, right? If you water down a sugar soda with water, it's broken because it's a completely different kind of uh like flavor system. And so it's a very good experiment to run.
+
+[56:09] So what I have people do is is like uh, you know, 50-50 water, uh, you know, one of these poison flavors. Do it then do it with coke. Yeah. So but once the once the coke drops, so coke is roughly somewhere from 10 to 11 bricks, 10 to, you know, uh once it the sugar level goes down, it loses all of its structure. So but you can add glycerin to it and bring its structure back.
+
+[56:30] It tastes like less more diluted flavor, but it doesn't taste broken anymore. So that's one of the experiments in the book. But I take it that Josh is a diet soda drinker, as was I for many, many years. Is that true? Yeah.
+
+[56:40] Uh I also uh I hear you you like the pepper. Have you had the Whataburger uh Dr. Pepper Shake? Disappointing. I have never had the butterburger Dr.
+
+[56:50] Pepper shake, though, but what an interesting Texas uh fusion there. Yeah. It's like a virtually giggling important. Yeah, not enough uh not enough uh not enough pepper flavor in it, not enough Dr. Pepper flavor in it.
+
+[57:03] Still disappointing. Well, what is the flavor we we did a podcast about this just what is the flavor of Dr. Pepper? Which is basically like cola plus cherry. So I already know the pretty thing is in a is a complete okay.
+
+[57:19] The prune thing is completely amazed. Uh sometimes I got it back. A fruit, like a stone fruit. I think there's I think it's like amaretto combined with because yeah, there's that kind of dark dried fruit. Yeah.
+
+[57:30] My theory is that he makes root beer and cola together because he was a pharmacist. I can't remember. Was it John Emberton or is that? Yeah, something like that. Some types of uh allergy.
+
+[57:42] Yeah, it's like Charles Alder Daniel. Yeah. Uh he was like a pharmacist and you know, sodas just cure all back in the day. Right. And now they're coming back to curolls, which is great.
+
+[57:53] Frebiotic, post-biotic. Yeah, that's CBD. Because they worked so well last time, you mean? They're coming back to cure alls because they really worked the first time around. Yeah, they did because there was it's just narcotics in all of them.
+
+[57:59] Seven up was just lithium. It's all you can still go to springs with Lithium and then mock them at your impotence. So uh anyways, I uh yeah, that's better. Well, I mean, I should say, I'm right and an almond almond and a stone fruit. Yeah, technically, I can say this.
+
+[58:25] Uh bartenders all over the world were very upset when Lemon Heart 151 was taken off the market because then you couldn't make flaming Dr. Peppers anymore, which have no Dr. Pepper in them. There's like a lot of vanilla and them look like really white caramel notes. Guys, we got three minutes left.
+
+[58:42] Three minutes. And then we're getting hard pulled out of here. Talk to me about pulled pork twinkies. They're not really twinkies, they're corn dogs. They're corn dogs, they're corn dogs filled with pulled pork.
+
+[58:51] Three minutes. Corn dogs, wait, what about talk to me about them? They're not Twinkies, they look like Twinkies. This is from your book. You wrote the book.
+
+[58:59] They are news. I really wanted cornbread. That was still all the best foods are phallic shaped. I know they're kicked out there, but listen, they just are. They easily fit in your mouth.
+
+[59:12] I love pulled pork with cornbread, but I wanted a tubula shape to get in my mouth. I think the original Twinkie is still the best mass-produced snac cake of all time. I think they did an incredible job. We bought the swinky gold and we filled it. Is it probably better just to eat barbecue on the side with your cornbread?
+
+[59:29] Yes, but this I can take in the car with me and eat it, and I love it. It's like it's like bringing the sandwich back to its corporation. I'm not gonna go there. I'm not gonna go there. Alright, I'm gonna take you to test.
+
+[59:40] In your in your cheeseburger nuggets, why 90 10? Why 90 10 in your cheeseburger nuggets? You're like, I'm gonna save a little fat and go 90 10. What the hell is that? For the beef.
+
+[59:52] Uh, because otherwise I think you would have too much fat leasing out in the ladder with that. But if you did like a if you did a cure on any first to sort of emulsify that and kind of agitate it, get the uh bias, I guess. Yeah, you assigned it. So you're so then I think you could do batttier battles with some things. So you're saying you have the only good application for 9010.
+
+[1:00:14] I listen to I I come from the sports and bodybuilding world in all my time ago. I needed so much 964 gram beef. You have no idea what I am. Let's talk uh how was the frozen pizza muffaletta? And you make sure that it's cold, but you know there are people who serve a hot muffaletta.
+
+[1:00:34] Have you tried it warmed? I have tried it. Recently at Napoleon House, less than two weeks ago, I had my first warm popajana and it was very good. But I prefer it pressed cold and dense. I don't know if it collapsed the neutron star.
+
+[1:00:50] And the Dijorno pizza's not disponer worked really well because it is on that round bread, and you're just getting a little light seasoned tomato paste, and the cheese is already in there. Press it down. It works deceptively really well. Yeah, yeah. Uh so extra uh describe how you made Fruity Pebbles pancakes.
+
+[1:01:09] I'm assuming they were terrible, right? Fruity pebbles are terrible. I like them. They're god awful. Alright.
+
+[1:01:18] All right. Alright, listen, I got 25 seconds left. Uh, buy Flavorama. Uh, buy uh the uh mythical cookbook, or if you want me to say them both accurately, flavorama and the mythical cookbook. Buy them on Kitchen Arts and Letters support uh our local people.
+
+[1:01:33] Josh, thanks so much for coming on. Ariel, a pleasure as always. Uh that's it, cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, News Dance Studios, joined as usual with John across from me. How you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yeah, and got uh Joe rocking the panels.
+
+[0:23] How you doing? I'm doing very well, man. Good to see you. Yeah. So we have uh we have a full house over there on the west coast.
+
+[0:29] Yeah. We got uh got the Jackie Molecules. How you doing, Mr. Molecules? I'm good, man.
+
+[0:34] How are you? Uh meh, yeah, meh, meh. Uh Nastasi the Hammer Lopez, how you doing? Good. And uh my man Quinn in the upper left in Vancouver Island, what's up?
+
+[0:47] Yep, I'm good. Yeah, all right. That sounds good. Uh if you're listening live on Patreon, why don't you call in your questions too? 917-410-1507.
+
+[0:55] That's 917-410-1507. So uh what do you guys have in the uh in the way of uh weekly uh garbage to uh talk to me about um so what I didn't mention last week was uh my girlfriend and I drove across the country from uh Boston to LA to bring her car here to LA. What kind of car? And uh Civic. All right.
+
+[1:21] What what year? 2019. Oh, okay. So not like uh an 80s civic, not like a new Civic. Ish.
+
+[1:30] Yeah. Yeah, okay. Ish. Um but we we took a very delicious route. Um and I would say the the highlight was hitting Sean Brock's new spot in Nashville, Audrey.
+
+[1:42] Oh, so you went down and over. Oh yeah, yeah. Like Atlanta, Nashville, Memphis, New Orleans. Never been to Nashville. I've never been to Nashville.
+
+[1:53] Yeah, it was Audrey was very, very good. I had been to uh Husk previously, but Audrey was incredible. Well give us some give us some highlights of uh what you had. Um I did this like Anson Mills blue cornbread, which was probably the best cornbread I've ever had with Lardo. I'm assuming no sugar, right?
+
+[2:14] A zero sugar situation. No, yeah, yeah, for sure. Zero zero sugar. Um chicken dumplings. Uh there was a there was a beef tongue skewer.
+
+[2:25] Um tell me about the chicken soup with a dumpling or like some sort of like thing, like what was it? Like what and what in what way dumpling? Like a totally wet dumpling or a dry on-the-top dumpling that had like uh been ovened? Like what was the situation? It was like a kind it was a wet dumpling.
+
+[2:44] Um not like in soup soup, though. It had I think there's black truffle on it. Was it fundamentally a biscuit style dough dumpling, or was it more of a bready bread dumpling? Yeah, yeah. Okay.
+
+[2:55] So like plenty of fat in plenty of fat and like a little bit of like uh internal texture to the dumpling. There's so many dumplings. I wish there was a everyone's like everyone's like, oh you guys don't have very, you know, many different kinds of like we have billions of things. We just call call them all dumplings. You know what I mean?
+
+[3:11] And they're all different. You know what I'm saying? Gets me angry. Yeah, you know what I mean? Uh my man John here's also had a uh pop up pawpaw pie with that.
+
+[3:22] Oh hold up, hold up, hold up. Was it made with frozen fresh pawpaws or was it made with dry pawpaws, pawpaw preserve? You gotta tell me what's going on because I can't say that I know what a pawpaw tastes like. I almost bought a tree, but then I lost the property that I was gonna put said tree on. So hook me up.
+
+[3:39] Give me some pawpawn. I mean I I I don't know. Uh I mean, did it taste like a what kind of pie did it taste like? What cut what like was it like dense? Was it like almost like you know, like a raisin pie or like a like a fig pie, or was it like soupy like an apple pie?
+
+[3:55] No, no, no, maybe like a key lime, you know. Um, so it was like whisked into like a condensed milk kind of a situation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you have the salt-risen bread? Uh did I have the salt-risen bread?
+
+[4:11] I don't think so. You would know. You would know. Because it's got like a cheesy, weird, cheesy, strange aroma to it. Oh, no, no, no.
+
+[4:19] No. You uh I'm not gonna say, but you um you chumped yourself. You chumped yourself. Now you have to make salt-risen bread, which is a huge pain in the behind. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[4:28] It's like not you know. I mean, they remember we had him on the show, and he said that they make it every day. And I was like, Oh my god, what a pain in the butt because it fails. Like, but he's like, No, we got it down. He's like, Thanks for asking.
+
+[4:41] It is a pain in the butt. Thank you for acknowledging. Anyway, uh, next time you're there, which I mean, have you have you have you been there before, or is this the one and only time in your life you're gonna go there? Probably the one and only time I'm gonna go. Someone's gonna need to mail my man uh molecule some salt-risen bread.
+
+[4:58] I highly recommend trying salt-risen bread. John, you've had salt-risen bread, right? No, I don't think so. Oh, you sons of guns. Weasels.
+
+[5:06] I don't even know where to get it. You have to make it. Yeah. Actually, I think there is uh a group, I wanna say West Virginia, or somewhere in that area that I think still has a bakery. I don't know if they ship.
+
+[5:19] If they ship, we should just get it shipped like to the west coast, to the upper west coast, and here we can all have some salt-risen bread. Yeah, I feel like when we do these tastings, we should get them shipped everywhere to all three locations and his and his salt risen bread experts back on the show. Just to talk about salt risen bread. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[5:40] I mean, there's I feel like I've gone over the salt risen bread story and the gangrene so many times. I don't know. We'll think about it. Think about it. See if people want to hear the same story again.
+
+[5:49] Oh, uh speaking of growing my own uh pawpaw tree, before we go any further on your trip, which I want to hear more about. I saw a guy when I was uh coming up here after after I parked the bike. He had a cane, a walking stick, where clearly they had grown the tree, and when it was a sapling, they bent the sapling over and they grew the cane. They grew the tree in the shape of the cane. Because I could see the grain of it.
+
+[6:17] It hadn't been wet bent, it hadn't been turned. It was the raw stick bent in the shape of a cane, the way that they used to do for like uh ships, for like, you know, parts of ships. And I was like, oh my god. I gotta start now. You know, if I'm gonna if I'm gonna get a decent cane by the time I need one, because you gotta what plant like 10?
+
+[6:36] Do you get one that you like? You know what I mean? Anyway. All right. So uh after you went down there, what was your next uh oh uh did you get did you have you done that the Nashville Hot Chicken?
+
+[6:46] Because I've never had it in Nashville. John, you did it, right? Yeah. Did you have I've done it before. You enjoyed it or didn't enjoy it.
+
+[6:53] It's good. I mean, John, where did you go? I I did Princes and Hattie B's. Not on this trip, but yeah. It's like it's fine.
+
+[7:03] Yeah. All right. You just made a bunch of enemies. You just made a huge number of enemies. Uh I've never had it's good.
+
+[7:09] It's just, you know, I I feel like you can weirdly get good Nashville like style hot chicken outside of Nashville. It's not the kind of thing I feel like I have to have when I'm in Nashville, weirdly. That's true. And now you just doubled your enemies. Yeah.
+
+[7:22] Uh all right. What else? What else did you have? Uh then we hit Memphis quickly and then down to New Orleans, which of course is always delicious. Um my first parkways, though.
+
+[7:34] I that was my first parkway pool boy, which was very good, obviously. Yeah, you like that bread? I do. Okay. Yeah.
+
+[7:42] Sure. Um then uh through Houston, San Antonio, Houston, Albuquerque, Vegas, and LA. And I will say, anytime I'm in Vegas, I make sure to go to the Chengdu taste there, which is yeah, my jam. Yeah, again, never been to Vegas. Been to San Antonio recently.
+
+[8:03] You've never been to Vegas? No. Nope. Wow. No.
+
+[8:08] It's weird, right? Wiley loves Vegas. Wiley, I don't think I hadn't told Did I have him tell the story when he was on the when he was on the beer? Really? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[8:16] You and me both, man. You know? Uh I figure I get good food everywhere. I don't like to gamble. We have shows in New York, not the same kind of show, maybe.
+
+[8:24] I don't know. You know what I mean? Yeah. A lot of holds in desert. Different.
+
+[8:27] Yeah, I like the desert. I'm gonna go to Phoenix again in like a couple of weeks. If you want some serious desert, Phoenix is awesome. Like outside of Phoenix, you know what I mean? For desert.
+
+[8:36] But uh, yeah, no, never been to Vegas. Uh Wiley opened Jean Georges' restaurant at a hotel in Vegas. That's right. And lived there for six months. And was on the company tab, right?
+
+[8:49] But somehow it didn't get told right. So he had he had had a fridge, which is a daily charge at the hotel at like every day for six months, because the first thing he did was like, give me a fridge. And so he put the fridge in there, and then he said when he went down to check out when he went home, they hit print on his bill. And it was one of those old like dot matrix. And he said it was printing for like a half hour, 45 minutes, just printing his six months of hotel bill from when he opened that.
+
+[9:19] He loves a hotel though. He was psyched. I would not like that. I am I do not want to live in a hotel for six months, I don't think. You guys?
+
+[9:27] I think I could do it. Yeah? Really? For six months, I think so. I don't know.
+
+[9:32] I don't know. Uh it gets it gets expensive like to eat and just live. You really miss cooking. I've stayed in hotels for a long time with work and uh you think it's great. And then after about week two and a half, you're like, I want to go home and cook.
+
+[9:47] I noticed something in San Antonio about that. Get this, see whether you get this uh slight dig that there's there's I'm trying to see if this is uh an undercurrent or if it was just two people in a row, San Antonio said. I asked them what restaurants were good in San Antonio, and here's what they said. Both of them, not related to each other, separate drives. I don't eat fast food.
+
+[10:06] I was like, I did not say fast food. So, like, at least in San Antonio, there's some undercurrent that if you're going out to a restaurant, you're doing some sort of shortcut or eating fast food. I was like, who said fast food? You know what I'm saying? Um anyway, so interesting.
+
+[10:24] But I do, yeah, I don't I don't eat out uh enough. I know, John, I need to come to your restaurant more. Sure. Speaking of which, got any good good new menu items? Uh the cheese croquettes, I think, are finally done.
+
+[10:35] Which took annoyingly way longer than they should have. How many times you burn your mouth on those suckers? Not that much. It was more just like getting the consistency of the batter right. It has to be a lot stiffer than what feels natural.
+
+[10:50] Um it's it's a mornay basically, but it's a really, really stiff mornae. When someone hands me a croquette and I bite into it right away, and the entire inside of it sticks to the roof of my mouth. I'm like, why, dude? And they're like, Why'd you eat it so fast? I'm like, you serve it to me, Jurgis.
+
+[11:08] You know what I mean? Like, what the hell? No, that's on you, man. I'm not gonna win. I think it's an inherently bad.
+
+[11:15] I it's just I just it's not my no, you know what? No, crap. Yeah, it's fine. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
+
+[11:23] I don't like doing that either, but you know, it comes with the territory if that's what you're ordering. I guess. Yeah, all right. Uh so I made something this week. So uh if you remember uh Chef uh JJ Johnson, what was this?
+
+[11:36] What was the rice book that uh I led you and it never came back? Yeah, yeah. Um uh the it's it's from the field, it's not all field choice stuff. It's yeah, anyway. So uh I don't know if you remember when he was on the show, we were talking about uh John John, DJ One.
+
+[11:50] Simple art of rice. Simple art of rice. Dj O N D J O N, which is a Haitian mushroom, like wild mushroom that in Haiti is used uh in cooking for kind of special events. And when I read it in the book, and when I talked to him about it, I was like, oh my god, I gotta get some John Jan mushrooms. And so like I I got some at Calusteans, and then they were burning a hole in my pantry for the longest time because I needed some sort of excuse to do it.
+
+[12:11] But I was like, you know what? I'm gonna make a bunch of rice. So I made it. And I highly recommend everyone loved the John John. I can't really put my finger on what the flavor of the John John is, but everyone likes it.
+
+[12:22] So I'll give you what I did. First of all, here's what don't do, right? So I I made it in a rice cooker, you know, because I've mentioned on the show many times that like I can't be bothered and I'm doing a bunch of other stuff. And so like I'm gonna I'm gonna use a rice cooker. That's all there is to it.
+
+[12:34] And I also believe, you know, if you remember I told Chef JJ, I was like, he's like, you just gotta do the thing with your finger with the I was like, nope, nope, no, nope. And he's like, why? It always works. Don't care. It doesn't matter whether it's right or wrong.
+
+[12:46] I'm not gonna do it. You know what I mean? So I uh so the the secret with the mushrooms is, and the secret with all mushrooms, and by the way, I don't know whether I talked about this on air, but I ran a whole bunch of tests uh a year or two ago, which I don't think I talked about. Soaking mushrooms, I the test was on shiitakis, right? But I was smoke uh um soaking shiitakis at different temperatures to see whether or not it actually tasted appreciably better if you did cold water soak uh before you heated it.
+
+[13:14] And unfortunately the answer is yes. So you really doesn't taste as good to rehydrate a mushroom in an in hot water or boiling water, um, anything really above 60 uh Celsius, but that's when mushrooms start undergoing their cooked transition from being uncooked to cooked, that's when that happens. So, yeah, so sorry folks, uh take your time and you know, soak your mushrooms right. I didn't bother vacuuming it, but I soaked the John John mushrooms for a long time. Uh I put them into a uh nut milk bag, an 80 micron nut milk bag, and then after I soak them, I brought it up to the boil and you know, put on um kitchen gloves, not like not kitchen gloves like uh how I described this, not like I don't want you to get poisoned gloves, but like scrubbing gloves.
+
+[14:00] Like rubber you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Dishwashing gloves. Yeah. You should always keep a pair of uh not filthy dishwashing gloves around because it's just enough insulation so that if you're if you're already got cook's hands that can touch hot things, you still can't really grab boiling liquids.
+
+[14:20] Like you're not that good yet, probably. You shouldn't be. You should really hope you're not that good. But a good pair of like just like scrub gloves, you know what I mean? First of all, they're grippy, which is nice when it's wet.
+
+[14:32] But then you can take that sack, that nut milk sack, that hot nut sack, and you can squeeze it real hard for at least 10 seconds before your hand starts burning. And so I that's what I did. So I squeezed it out, got all of the John John juice out, uh, and then so you add that to the rice, and then I made a blend of uh parsley, fresh parsley, cilantro, uh clove, uh pepper, garlic, and I didn't use shallows because I don't do that. I've mentioned that a bunch of times. Onion, but blended all that up with a little bit of the John John stock back in the rice.
+
+[15:08] Uh, brought it up, cooked it. The mistake I made was is I held back on the salt, right? Oh, I didn't hydrate it in water, I hydrated it in veg stock. I was cooking for vegetarians by highlight, I did it in veg stock. If I was gonna do it for myself, I would do it in chicken stock.
+
+[15:23] But if I'm doing it for vegetarians, you can't do it in chicken stock. So uh anyways, so the mistake I made was as it was getting close to being done, there wasn't that much liquid left. I tasted it, I was like, oh, it's low on salt. And I wanted it to be eaten kind of on its own. So I I added some salt, but then the stirring of it at that point, I broke a bunch of the rice grains.
+
+[15:45] But it didn't get gummy and it didn't get sticky. Like they stayed, it was almost like the rice had been miniaturized. So all of the grains stayed separate, but they were kind of broken in half. And people were like, How do you do that? I'm like, I'm really good at what I do.
+
+[15:58] And I was like, I wasn't supposed to happen. It wasn't supposed to be that way. But uh anyway, it was good. Nice. Yeah.
+
+[15:59] Made some, you know, the bad. I made like a my standard uh dried cod gloop to go on top of it, which is good. My standard dried cod glue is just uh you put onions in a pan and you walk away for a billion years with butter, right? And then you you know, super low. Then you throw in uh red and green bell pepper and you let that go for a billion years until it cuts down.
+
+[16:30] Then you uh you you bring you you take the thin, the cheap, like the pollock salt, pollock, really cheap stuff, and then you put it in a big pot of cold water, you bring it up once, drain it, bring it up, fill it, bring it up again, then chop it fine, mix it in, and then smash smashed uh boiled yams. You know, not sweet potatoes, yams, white, not sweet, yam, name to be more accurate on top of the rest. Anyway, it was good. That was my cooking adventure for the uh for the the week. What about what about anyone else that got some cooking crap they want to talk about?
+
+[17:02] It being cooking issues. What do you got? Uh the day after last week's show, we were completely throwed in. So bring me a big old pot of ragu genovese, which turned out pretty good. And how do the Genevese folks take their ragu?
+
+[17:25] It's basically a little bit of carrot, a little bit of celery, pieces of beef, not brand, and then just a giant pile of like sliced onion. I like that. And then you cook it for as long as you can. This makes sense. So you get like a very subtle passive sort of caramelization, but like it's relatively blonde, I would say.
+
+[17:53] So how present is the carrot in that. Um it depends. Well, I mean, you made it just now. How present was the carrot? Again, you get you get the occasional bit.
+
+[18:08] I think we could have actually chopped it a little finer. Yeah. But um it was good. I mean, it's like it's a big blood of like sweet onions with like little morsels of like stewed fatty beef. So you're at two-thirds of a mirapoi, no celery, huh?
+
+[18:28] Oh no, there was a it's that's celery, didn't they? I don't know. I don't remember y'all. I would have clocked it, I thought maybe very little carrot, very little celery, and then just like again, like the French onion amount of onion. Yeah, I appreciate that.
+
+[18:44] I I I won't gonna say I overuse it because I don't think that's possible, but uh I go through a lot of onion. My standard like method to do anything is just chop a whole bunch of onions and get them going while you're doing the rest of the stuff. That's basically how I start everything, you know, especially if you're pressure cooking. I do like two or three times the the normal human amount of uh of onion, but um yeah. Do you know what's weird?
+
+[19:09] I was thinking about this the other day with mirapoi, is that like some people are very sensitive to too much carrot in a miracle, and some people are very sensitive to too much celery. A lot of people are sensitive to too much celery. Not that many people sensitive to too much onion, unless they're allergic to alliums, in which case they're incredibly sensitive. So if you're if you're sensitive to onions in general, you're highly, highly sensitive to onions in a miropoi. But I mean, just in terms of general taste uh aesthetics for most people, it's weird how it's always the carrot and the celery.
+
+[19:40] Hard to balance. I would say that I always add more carrot than celery. I think I just do it by eye never. But if we're doing a standard recipe, we're usually pretty even in terms of like it's like usually two part onion, one part the rest, you know. One of each, you mean?
+
+[20:02] Or half half. Two half half or two one one. Oh, I use way then. I use way more onion. Anyway.
+
+[20:09] Uh depends. I mean, I'm just it should depend. But for me, good and the leftover generation is like just took a like a glob of it because it turns into like kind of a group, and then I refried on one side, and it made like a melt with a velvea. It was quite good. I like Velveeta.
+
+[20:31] Someone was hating on Velveeta recently. What's the hate? Velveeta tastes good. Kind of a good does. Yeah, Velveeta's good.
+
+[20:40] Nastasia, what's do you do you don't hate Velveeta, right? Who was it that we were talking to doesn't like Velveeta? Some you know who it was? Yeah, I think it was Chef Josh said something on one of his internet things I was looking for for last week's thing, said doesn't like Velveeta. I'm like, I don't know, man.
+
+[20:52] It is a well-made he likes sodium citrate. I don't think it would be him. There's different between liking sodium citrate and liking Velveeta, my man. Velveeta is a like a pro like it's like you know what I'm saying? It's like he likes using sodium citrate to make his own cheese melting things.
+
+[21:08] And I've said to a bunch of people, I like I do that too. Okay, exactly. I think it's like, you know who makes really good meltable cheese brand blends? The Kraft Corporation. You know what I mean?
+
+[21:19] It's like it, you know. I think look, some things like if you're like, what I really want is the flavor of Gruyere in a sauce. You can make it ensure it's easy to do, like add which is delicious, right? Add like citrate to it. But a lot of times I just want Velveeta.
+
+[21:37] You know what I'm saying? That's just me though. That's just me. Um it's one of those things with the citrate that, like, sure, I know how to do it. I've taught people how to do it.
+
+[21:46] And then I just don't do it. It's like making the alginate balls. Like, I know how to do it. I've taught people how to do it. I don't do it.
+
+[21:53] I don't care about it. You know what I mean? It's like, it's not that I don't care about it. I don't care about it from my own personal practice. See what I mean?
+
+[21:59] Yeah. It's like when I'm read doing the re up for the for the book. I have to, I'm literally writing, I was like, I'm not writing how to do this. Plenty of people do it. I know how to do it, but I don't do it for myself, so I'm not gonna talk about it here.
+
+[22:10] And my wife's like, that's really long-winded. I'm like, yeah, I know. You know what I mean? So then she takes it out. So I don't know what it's gonna look like eventually.
+
+[22:16] Uh hey, hear this, Quinn. You know what that is? That's Warren Johnson sent me some Hawkins cheesies, or as he calls them, Canadian packing peanuts. So if you want to open up uh away from the microphone, John, and he also sent us uh some of uh his uh liquor from above average drinks. We have a uh corrienter, a coriander aguardiente.
+
+[22:42] This is bottle number 42 out of 82, and it's clocking in at 48% alcohol. And I figure we can uh, Joe, you want to try this or no? The agoridente? The coriander agrediente? I'm sure my man John's gonna have some.
+
+[22:54] Here to you. So this is clocking hot, folks. Uh it's clocking at 48. And I don't really know anything uh about this. So let's just uh try it.
+
+[23:04] Here's the Lauren, long time, long time listener. Yeah. Like the nose smells sweet. Yeah, got coriander. What do you think?
+
+[23:13] What do you think? I like it. Yeah. Wanna make some com it's got it almost smells like uh Christmas pastry. Yeah.
+
+[23:19] You get that? Almost like uh like a sweetish, like a like smells like someone cooked like a semla, like almost like there's cardamom in it, even though there's not. You know what I mean? You smell that? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[23:32] Yeah. I love that pastry smell. You want to smell it, Joe? I smell coriander is such a pain in the butt because it can be so many things. It can be high in citrus, it can be.
+
+[23:43] We're back at the French Culinary Institute, Nastasi, you remember this? At the French Culinary U Institute, we would run back in there whenever they left the storeroom so that they were unguarded, we would run back in there and open every single. So at the French culinary, we used to get these giant things of spices, like, you know, like the you know, the industrial, not industrial, but like, you know, big spices. So Nastasi and I would go back there and just open every single one, rip off the lids and be like, nope, nope, nope. And then we would put it in the maybe pile.
+
+[24:10] Remember this, Nas? And then we would like keep smelling the maybe pile, and then we would steal the best one and leave everyone else with the garbage. Do you remember that? I don't think that's with me. Yeah.
+
+[24:19] Remember, we used to distill, we would distill constantly. One of the things we would distill was the caraway, and the other was we would add c uh some coriander to it. I don't know. You don't remember this? You blocked it out.
+
+[24:30] So the the next thing uh we have from Warren is a coriander a liqueur. This is at 30 ABV. I'm assuming it's sweeter. It's got some brown to it, so I don't know what the brown's from. We'll see what's going on here.
+
+[24:45] Wanna try the liqueur? Yeah, he wants to try that. All right. Uh just pour me in the pour you in this way. So what do you think?
+
+[24:59] What do you think? And then you can read this stuff. All right. Yeah. Well, thanks one.
+
+[25:05] We always appreciate uh getting uh sal good, huh? Yeah. Yeah. It's not like highly um it's like light. Like it's not like highly herbalized, it's not bitter.
+
+[25:14] Yeah, no. It's really nice. Well spiced. Should I tell you guys what I've been doing uh at home? Sure.
+
+[25:20] For in terms of liqueurs, should I mention it? Okay, so uh how many times on air have I mentioned how much I love um I love glycerin? Like a lot? Like a lot? So a lot.
+
+[25:32] Well, so I've been I have a new thing I've been doing. Uh you ready for it? Glacid. Have I mentioned glaci yet? No?
+
+[25:40] All right. So I really like uh taking an Amaro and uh turning it into kind of like a spritz situation. But you wanna add, because they're often very bitter, you want to add a lot of kind of seltzer water to it. And then it gets like a really low, like a session drink. So like, you know, if you use channar, you're talking about like four percent alcohol.
+
+[26:01] If you're using like something like a little higher, like it can be like you know, six percent alcohol, but I'm talking like two, a two-ounce pourer of Amaro, adding like a hundred and fifty to a hundred and sixty mils of uh s of seltzer water, right? So like a lot. Very like so, in order to have that be okay, one, you need to add some acid, right? Because I I don't think it worked well without acid, but you also need to add something to body it back up. So glycerin's the answer.
+
+[26:25] So I've been making a champagne acid glycerin mix that is 60, 60% glycerin, right? And uh 30% uh sorry, 40% water at 6% uh acidity, doing the champagne acid base, which is I use liquid lactic lactic acid now and uh tartaric acid. So I can give the recipe. I don't, I I did it, I I calculated the density of uh glycerin and I did all the calculations, but maybe on the on the Patreon I can put out the recipe for it. And a half ounce of glassid with uh like two ounces of base uh like Amaro, top that with, you know, stir it, mix it up, top that with uh seltzer, like up, like you could top it pretty high, twist orange, a couple ice cubes, you're off to the races.
+
+[27:11] So that's my standard low alk that we have at the at the house now. And something like channel that has a lot of body and it's very low in alcohol, like 13 and a half percent low, right? Uh if you want to go even lower, I have this drink, I haven't come up with a new name for it yet, but like the two per it's two percent alcohol, right? But it it so what you do with that is it's an ounce and a quarter of channar, half ounce of glacid, and then I make uh a celery seed syrup, which is just as simple as it sounds. You just I also have the recipe, I can put it on the Patreon, but you dump a bunch of celery seed.
+
+[27:39] Celery seed, how if you grew up in New York, you know Dr. Brown's celray soda, right? Anyone knows Dr. Brown's celery soda. It's hard to get, but it's like to me, you know how everyone likes whatever their local soda is?
+
+[27:53] To me, that's God soda. And they used to make uh a diet version, but it's not celery, it's celery seed. So just celery seed and uh water and sugar, you strain that out. So half ounce of celery seed syrup, an ounce and a quarter of channar, half ounce gacid, fill that up with uh seltzer orange twist, two percent alcohol, you're good. You're good.
+
+[28:13] Pounder. It's a pounder. You know what I mean? Pound, pound that thing. Uh and one of them is like, you know, less than a quarter of a cocktail.
+
+[28:22] So it's like it's like a fifth of the crazy. It's like five of five or six of them is like a beer. It's nuts. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[28:28] You know, by then you're full of liquid because they're also tall drinks. Yeah. You know what I mean? Anyway. Uh all right.
+
+[28:36] You guys tried the cheesies yet? Joe, you've had cheesies before, right? We were theorizing last night because I because I ate a package. Is it because it's so cold in Canada you guys need to jack the salt so much? Is it like almost the same as being in an airplane?
+
+[28:48] I think I think it's just because it's sharper than they dehydrate. You know what I mean? No, but they're adding salt to it, my man. It's not just I think, I think the content of the actual cheese powder is also higher. That's possible, but you know, if you're making something with a higher salt cheese powder, you know what you do to the rest of the salt?
+
+[29:13] You lower it. You know what I'm saying? You leave it alone. You leave it alone, you let it rise. All right, fine.
+
+[29:20] Uh I mean that's clearly what they do. But we were just saying it's like, you know, it's like maybe like everyone has their like Canada goose on up there, and like they can't hear anything because they got that helmet on, you know, that that big hood. And so they need something so crunchy that like they can feel it through like all of that crazy weather, and you know, and they need just like loads of salt. They're really good though. I mean, I gotta say, I mean, all love to the Friedol Lake Corporation, but the Hawkins cheesy is a is a in smaller quantities.
+
+[29:48] It comes in a smaller quantity, which I also appreciate. 36 grams. It's the dumbest number in the world. 36 grams. What the hell is this?
+
+[29:54] Do they actually like like drop thing and weigh it and then type 36 grams? I mean, who chooses 36 grams as the package size? It makes no sense. I know, but like why ever make that size? It's the dumbest.
+
+[30:08] It's like, I don't even understand it. And uh maybe it fits in a particular pocket. Oh, yeah, of the of the Canada Goose? That? Yeah, sure.
+
+[30:15] The Canada Goose. I love how the orange kind of gives that like there's a nice hue on the plastic. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. It's so hardcore.
+
+[30:23] This is a good point, Joe. I'm glad you brought this up. Uh plastics have a tendency to scalp. Like, in other words, like uh things adsorb into the plastic, like flavors and aromas. And sometimes it can go the other way, which is why, you know, I always, if you smell your plastic wrap and it smells bad, don't buy that.
+
+[30:38] Only buy uh polyethylene, not the PVC plastic wrap, unless they've really off-gassed it. But this sucker, I'm assuming they didn't start with, in fact, I can know they didn't because I can see the top of the bag. I don't think they overprinted yellow on this. I think that's just scalped off of the cheese powder, which means that's hard core cheese powder action. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[31:00] I appreciate it though. John, what is uh grinotis mean? The little like snack. Corn based snack. It looks like something you get like at the uh at the uh like the uh the the PAL concession stand of the baseball, you know, as a kid.
+
+[31:17] Oh yeah, when you were a kid, the mini stuff, uh yeah, it's the best. Back when you used to be happy with like a little thing, you know what I mean? Remember how like little, like remember cracker jack when you were a kid getting a cracker jack? Oh, the best. Oh, geez.
+
+[31:27] And then like it how many how many years did it take before you're like, this doesn't have enough goop on it, and this prize sucks. It took me a long time. And there's never enough nuts. Never enough nuts. You're looking for that one peanut.
+
+[31:39] And also, also, I know I've said this before. Why Spanish peanut hegemony? The Spanish peanut is not the best peanut. Like, not even close to the best peanut. I don't even think it's the second best peanut.
+
+[31:50] Like, why do we why does everyone go ape over the why do you want those little skins flying off? Like, how many times have you, I mean, me more than I should, I guess, taking a handful of Spanish peanuts, stick them in your mouth, accidentally breathe a little bit, and one of those skins goes right down your right your throat, like starting everywhere. Yeah, right. It's dumb. It's dumb.
+
+[32:09] It's like um when someone hands you a dessert and they just put the powdered sugar on and they didn't give it time to set. You guys know what I'm talking about, right? You're like, here's oh, anything, anything like uh any, anything like uh, especially things that are dry, so it takes forever for that powdered sugar to kind of settle down, like uh on the outside of like a shoe pastry or some crap, and they hand it to you, and you just one errant inhale and and you're like hacking and hacking and wheezing. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[32:38] Yeah, yeah, bad. Uh upcoming guests on February uh 13th, we have uh Michael Fabro and uh Saife Kowja, who I don't know, I don't know Safe, but uh I know Michael, obviously. He used to be at uh what's it called? Oricing salmon, which was uh, you know, as we said back in the day, our favorite fish. Interesting thing about Oracing, did you hear about this?
+
+[32:58] They ran out of stock. So they sold off all of their stock that was the right size, and they were kind of missing a generation, so they paused for a little bit. This is what I was told. They pa I was talking to the folks at Aqua Best because Booker, obviously, as a salmon aficionado, was like, Dad, they something happened with Oracing. They stopped making Oracle.
+
+[33:18] I'm like, wow, I don't know, man. And so then I talked to the people at Aquabest, which is where he gets his uh Ikura and went, I'll get this. For his birthday, which was just a couple of weeks ago. Uh my sister-in-law Miley, who's been on the show, gives him a hundred and twenty dollar gift certificate to Russ and Daughters. So he goes to Russ and Daughters and just says, hands them the gift certificate and just says French trout row.
+
+[33:43] And they just they scoop out this giant bucket of French trout row. Yeah. One, so when I used to get it for him, I was like, no way I'm paying for this crap. So they used to use what they call a bissil cup, this little cup, and I would say this very enunciate very clearly. One tenth of one pound of French trout row, please.
+
+[33:59] You know what I mean? Like so that they would know I meant a teeny bit because they didn't want to pay for it. You know what I mean? Because he would just go and suck it up anyway. So this he got 1.1 pounds, 1.1 pounds in in like a deli.
+
+[34:10] And he comes home and he just starts going boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, eating it. And the next morning it was gone. So, like, as we're going to bed that night, Jen says to him, you should do something. Like, get some bagels, not just the trout row. Like, nobody has consumed that much trout row ever.
+
+[34:28] Like, it's never happened. We don't know what it, we don't know what it does to your body to consume that much salt. You know what I mean? It's like gone. Just gone.
+
+[34:37] Hosed. I was like, oh my God. And he wasn't like, I had too much, I don't want anymore. He's like the utility monster with that stuff. It's nuts.
+
+[34:45] I mean, it's like, God bless him. But he, you know, anyone, I can't figure out what he wants to do for a living where he can afford to live the lifestyle he wants. You know what I mean? He would rather not buy toilet paper and have French trout row, but still, it's an expensive habit. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[35:02] Yeah. You know? Anyway. Uh, so Michael Farrell. Yeah.
+
+[35:08] Well, I mean, like, but the thing is, is like he just likes certain weird luxury goods. It's bizarre. But he can't, we can't afford to get it. I don't know what I don't know what he's gonna do. He needs to get it, he needs to figure out uh something that people want to pay him for.
+
+[35:22] You know what I mean? He's to work for a company that makes chow rail. Uh well, you know, they used to joke at Russ and Daughters, they're like, hey, you could get a job here someday. He's like, and then but he never but he probably could, but he would probably get fired instantly because you know he would dip into that. You know he would.
+
+[35:39] Yeah, getting high off there. I getting high off that supply. Uh yeah, like I used to do with the bacon at Domino's, which was a nightmare. Uh I told you that story. No.
+
+[35:48] I've never told you that story. I don't think so. Come on. I don't think so. Oh my God.
+
+[35:53] Okay, real quick. So uh Stas knows this story. So I was working as a delivery person at Domino's when I was in college. I was driving my mom's uh Honda Accord, uh 84 Honda Accord with MD plates on it. So I could speed.
+
+[36:10] Yeah, I could speed like a mother because I had MD plates. Cops would never pull me over. This is why I never put the Domino sign on the top of my car. But on the other hand, they wouldn't wouldn't give you shift pizzas. They had no food and like, you know, they there was also like I worked a crappy shift, and if people weren't ordering, like you were getting four dollars an hour, no tips because no one's ordering, right?
+
+[36:31] And they wouldn't let us eat anything. So I used to just start eating the pepperoni. Now the pepperoni at Domino's Pizza comes in like uh a third container. Like most of the other things are in six containers, right? So this is in a six-inch deep, like third pan.
+
+[36:45] And I'm like, oh my god, they're gonna notice that I'm eating all of this pepperoni. Because I, you know, I I could eat. You know what I'm saying? So I started pounding this pepperoni, and then I'm like, I better move. So I moved from the pepperoni to the bacon.
+
+[36:58] And I ate like, because very few people ordered the bacon on the pizza. So I I ate almost the entire six pan of bacon. And I was like, this stuff sucks. This is the worst. And someone's like, yo, that's raw.
+
+[37:11] I was like, I was like, oh, I just thought it was bad. But I ate it anyway. Because, you know, whatever. College kid. Amazing.
+
+[37:19] Yeah, dumb. Uh, so Dax Dax loves that story. Anyway, back to Michael Fabro. So Michael Favro is no longer at uh Oura King Salmon. He has his own, I believe it's Coho farm that he is now the CEO of.
+
+[37:32] Local Farmer. Say it again. What? Local Carho. Well, it's only local if you live in upstate New York, am I right?
+
+[37:39] Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. So he's uh farming coho. And what's interesting is that he is, as far as he knows or I know, the first person to work on Ikijime slaughtering techniques for uh farmed uh coho salmon in at least in the United States and maybe maybe anywhere.
+
+[37:56] So uh we'll be talking about that, and hopefully he'll bring uh some of his product, you know. Maybe I'll bring Booker. Although I think he'll be in school at that point, so I can't. That'd be amazing. What if you bring Booker?
+
+[38:07] How do you like it, Booker? Not as much or delicious. He'll he has two words great or not as much. How do you like it? Great.
+
+[38:15] How do you like it? Not as much. Those are the two things he says. Not as much. Uh all right.
+
+[38:21] Uh Justin Sherrill writes in question. Uh, I picked up some ultra spurse M uh on the impulse. What's it good for? By the way, did you know that uh um the people who used to be National Starch, the name just went out of my head. They bought T I C gums.
+
+[38:34] So that's all one company. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, we gotta get in good with those guys. Get Janet Carver on. Hey, we should get Janet Carver on.
+
+[38:41] Yeah. She was used to run all of the uh chef Outreach stuff for National Starch, which now is Ingredient, and then Ingredion bought T I C gums, who makes a lot of the good pre-mixes and stuff. Should be interesting, guess. Yeah. Yeah?
+
+[38:54] Yeah. See what I can do. Uh I picked up some ultra they make ultra spurse, by the way. I picked up some ultra spurse M on impulse. What's it good for?
+
+[39:00] I remember being mentioned on the show, but I don't have a specific use case to work from or what percentages to use. Would it work for breaking up cocoa powder in a drink? No. I mean, yes, but no. Uh so ultra spurse, there's all the ultras, you either got your ultra tex and you got your ultra spurse.
+
+[39:16] I would highly recommend that uh home folk only get spurse. So the difference is is both of them are, and there's different kinds, so you really don't need to worry about it, are prehydrated starches, right? So what that means is is that it's kind of like wondra flour. They're already uh they've already been cooked. So you can stir them in, and you don't need to bring a product back up to the boil to get it to thicken, right?
+
+[39:40] It'll thicken at room temperature or any temperature in between. The difference between the spurse line and the text line is the spurse is what's called agglomerated. And what agglomeration does, if you look at it under a microscope, it looks very kind of rough. And so it doesn't stick together. So you can take without using a blender and you can stir uh spurse things in with a spoon and you're not gonna get clumps and lumps.
+
+[40:03] Whereas Tex, Ultra Tex, you're more likely to get clumps and lumps. And what's the difference between all the different ultra spurses? I don't really know, and I don't really think it makes a difference. I'll tell you, I mean, maybe it does for allergies and stuff like this. But uh I used it just the other day.
+
+[40:16] The pro reason I wouldn't use it in a cocoa drink is it's gonna thicken your cocoa drink. So if you what you want is a really thick cocoa drink, then sure, you could use spurs. Uh I was cooking beans, I was cooking cow um uh field peas, uh cow peas, rather. Uh not black-eyed peas, cowpeas, and uh smaller, different. And um, I had a little bit too much liquid left at the end.
+
+[40:37] Uh, so it was a little soupier than I wanted, but I didn't want to do the old school of like taking a big scoop out, blending up a section of the beans and putting it back in. I wanted to keep the beans intact. So I just spooned a little bit of uh ultra spurse in, stirred it thickened right up, you know, in about 10-15 seconds, you wait five minutes or so for it to really kind of stabilize, and out it goes. And so, like that's you know, a use case right there. It's like a really good, if you don't want so Xanthan, sometimes it's easy to kind of go over the top with it.
+
+[41:05] Um, like ultra spurse, because it is a starch, it acts more like uh a starch. So, you know, if you ever if you hate making a cornstarch slurry and stirring it in at the last minute, I don't know anyone who loves it, plus then you have to bring it back up almost to the boil. Do you love doing the cornstarch slurry and then praying that you don't get those little fish eyes in it? No. You hate it, right?
+
+[41:23] Yeah. Yeah, spurs. Yeah. Yeah. And uh the only reason that they make text, I think, is because it's a lot cheaper.
+
+[41:29] But in terms of the like use on our basis, it's not that much cheaper. Your time is more expensive. Uh-huh. From uh L Butts, uh, there seems to be a new Instagram TikTok fad going around, much akin to the fiasco of uh Parmigiano Reggiano in an espresso martini. Well, what do you think about it, L?
+
+[41:45] Do you really like your? I'm kidding. Uh I did you catch that fad, Parmigiano Espresso Martini? Did you catch that? Why?
+
+[41:55] Why did you do you watch them on purpose or because of this question? And what'd they say? Yeah, sounds right. Um the new trend is using soy sauce and bourbon slash rye cocktails. Have any of you guys seen this trend?
+
+[42:16] No. I haven't seen that, but to me it's sound. Well, let me see. Just tried making uh Sazerac with one. First of all, you you you folks know I I'll drink a Saserac, a Sazerak's a fine drink, but as it contains Peixod's bitters, I would prefer if you just made it with cough syrup.
+
+[42:32] And that's what we used to do at the bar. If you a friends and family came, I would pull Robotussin up from underneath the bar and make a sazerac with Robotusin and do a side-by-side like RoboSac and uh Freegan Sazerac. They taste identical if you get the red. You know what I mean? Uh just try making a Sazerac.
+
+[42:50] And I honestly say that uh the last remnants of my written house rye, and I know it's not a special whiskey in the States, but in Australia, with our exchange rates on top of import peas, uh fees, and then throw in uh industry uh markups and whatnot, it tends to border on the special side of spirits. It was not worth wasting the so uh the written house on the soy sauce. Yet I don't know if I might have been heavy-handed with it. Well, if you added any at all, you were heavy-handed with it, in my opinion. Same.
+
+[43:13] Um interested to hear whether it's another fad that will die out in a couple of days or hold some actual ground. Thanks. I said, listen, I'm sure there is a use for soy sauce in uh certain uh uh bourb-based cocktails, certain cocktails in general. Uh Jack Shram had a fish sauce-based cocktail that was uh really good with a couple of dashes of fish sauce in it, but it's very cocktail specific. This is why people are like, oh, I don't in other words, I don't think it's like salt, right?
+
+[43:39] Where salt makes a lot of drinks taste better, especially drinks with fruit or citrus, right? I don't actually think MSG makes a lot of uh all drinks taste better. I think it makes some drinks taste better and then makes other drinks taste like this. Like like braw brothy, kind of you know. I don't know that I want umami in all of my drinks.
+
+[43:58] You know what I mean? Uh and I would say soy falls into that category. So are there drinks that would be delicious with soy? I am sure there are. I do I want soy in my Sazerac?
+
+[44:06] Probably I don't. I think uh, you know, there's what anything with like caramel or coffee or chocolate notes. You could use like drops or soy sauce. I mean, could do it. Could do, but do you put soy sauce in your coffee?
+
+[44:26] I mean, I I play around with soy sauce and like caramel application. That's it's a salted caramel, that's a salted caramel. That's fine. That's a dessert application, like a culinary thing. I think like there's a fundamental difference between like cooking something which is an agglomeration of a bunch of different flavors, like mole, right, and making a cocktail, which is like a whole different thing.
+
+[44:50] I think soy sauce, I think it's really nice. Soy sauce works with chocolate. Okay. Anything with like chocolate notes, it would be good. Or like I've got um Don't put it in my hot chocolate.
+
+[45:03] Like you can make me a chocolate thing with it. You can make me you can make me a chocolate thing with it. Please don't put it in my in my in my chocolate bar. Don't put it in my coffee. If I'm having my morning espresso, don't go with soy sauce into my espresso.
+
+[45:16] Don't do that. You know what I mean? But what we were saying, you were what was the one you were saying you were just gonna? Again, like if you combined machine, like if you have a drink with machino, which is like the black walnut liqueur. I'm familiar, yes.
+
+[45:29] And then you add a little soy sauce on top of that? Like yeah, like a few drops. Yeah. Like that would work. Look, there okay.
+
+[45:37] Look, it's possible that something would work. Here's the other thing, right? Let me tell you a little story. When I and I when I first learned to carbonate, force carbonate, with uh not with an EC, right, which is expensive, but when I first got the carbonator caps, this was in like 2005 or four or something like that, I would carbonate all the wines. And I was like, oh my God, this is great.
+
+[45:57] Every white wine, everything, I would even like make some Lambrusco-y things, right? I would just carbonate everything. I was like, this is fantastic. I love it. And then I said, you know what I need to do?
+
+[46:07] I need to taste this side by side with the original. I was like, oh, the original's better. I was like, oh, I have hurt this product. It still tastes good, but I have damaged the product. And for what reason?
+
+[46:19] Right? And I would guess that soy sauce, you can make something with a lot of things in cocktails with soy sauce that taste okay, but I would bet that you've actually done a little bit of damage. It's still good, but it's not maybe better. You know what I'm saying? That's all I'm saying.
+
+[46:33] I think there's there's a there's a huge impulse when you are trying to ideate and come up with new ideas, especially if it's like your goal to come up with new ideas, that as soon as you have a new idea, you just start doing it. And if it tastes okay, you think it's great. And then you never go back and really assess whether what you're doing is in fact better or not. You know what I mean? I think it's a huge problem.
+
+[46:55] I have this problem. I think we all have this problem. Um, and this is why you should always just test. The other thing is I was talking to someone the other day, and they went through this huge process of bull crap that they were doing for techniques to make something. And in my, I didn't want to say this, but in my head, I'm thinking, half of the stuff that you're telling me has no impact on the drink.
+
+[47:15] Like half of the stuff you're telling me has no. And by the way, I'm being generous. More than half of what they were saying had no impact on the drink. But I'm not gonna be like, you know, because you you're out at a at an event. You can't be like, no, do this side by side and then tell me.
+
+[47:31] You know what I mean? Anyway. Uh we have a caller. Caller you're on the air. Hey, what's up, Dave?
+
+[47:37] It's Josh from Northland. Hey, how are you doing? Hey, aren't you doing something with Kampari Academy on milk washing? Uh I am. I'll be up there in a couple weeks.
+
+[47:46] Oh, nice. And uh an interesting thing which I did not cover because I didn't think to cover it, but I've heard people talk about is alternative milks in milk washing. So before I run my own test, which I'm gonna have to do, what's your favorite alternative milk to milkwash? And does it have the same uh kind of uh flavor altering effects as uh milk milk from a cow? Uh not as intense with the flavor altering effects.
+
+[48:10] I found success with uh pretty much everything except for uh oat milk, which I think they just put so many gosh garden things in there to uh to make it like homogenous that it then makes it difficult to break again. I've heard Oatley will break. Did you try Oatly or a different one? I didn't use Oatley. Uh I took whatever we had at the bar, which was not a decision that I made because I wasn't particularly interested in making that decision.
+
+[48:38] Um but yeah, I haven't tried Oatley, I'll have to give it a shot. But I I made a bunch of things work. I actually did one, uh I did a trace leche uh milk punch that I made to break with uh you know all three milks. So yeah, the alternatives work pretty pretty well. Wait, so like goat, like which three milks did you do?
+
+[48:59] It was man, I'll have to remember. It was definitely sweetened condensed milk and whole milk and something else. Did it break hard? I'd have to I don'd have it broke real hard, yeah. Um I do them like I I do them real fine anyway, and then uh like for home batches, I just put them through like a reusable percolating coffee filter.
+
+[49:18] Yeah. Um, and it everything I did with alternative milks broke big enough that that was enough to uh to strain it. So like almond? Almond, no problem, yeah. Soy breaks.
+
+[49:30] In other words, like here's a question for you that I haven't tried with something like soy. What if you instead of breaking it with uh acid, what if you did a uh what if you broke it with um like Epsom salt, like you did for like you would for tofu? You think it would work? Oh. Uh I know a lot of things that aren't acid break.
+
+[49:49] That's actually a big part of what I'm gonna talk about is breaking with like tannic and astringent things. So we're we're doing one where it's just uh the breaking agent is just really oversteeping the hell out of whiskey with coffee. Yeah, coffee. Coffee is instant break. The only problem I have with coffee with no acid is the curd is so fine, it's so tiny.
+
+[50:08] So do you have a way to make the curd not be so tiny? Like the nice thing about acid break is it's real fluffy. You know what I mean? Whereas like coffee, like a coffee break is like like tiny, tiny pellets, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I mean, then I just adjust the method I'm using for straining for that.
+
+[50:27] I don't do you find any negative results on the back end like for having a smaller curd? I'm using I'm using a centrifuge, so if like, you know, I gotta I gotta go back and test like you know, just using like an like an 80 mesh back. Anyway, you want to push this before you ask whatever question you were gonna ask or say what you're gonna say, you want to push out of the class so that people can go look for it? Yeah. Yeah, so we added uh added a second day, which should go live today, but I'll be teaching uh class on milk punch and milk washing at uh the Kampari Academy in the Grace building uh Tuesday, February 13th and Wednesday the 14th.
+
+[50:58] So if your Valentine's Day plans uh include talking about homogenous uh protein emulsions, then you know, come hang. And why shouldn't they? And why shouldn't they involve that? Nothing's more romantic, right? And uh by the way, yeah, than breaking milk.
+
+[51:13] Why do they keep calling that building the Grace Building? WR Grace is one of the most evil companies. Like they they haven't met a village that they can't poison. Like, why is it that they still call that building the Graceville? Isn't that weird?
+
+[51:26] It's not like Grace, like, you know, Grace Church or or Grace, like, you know, God's good graces. It's WR Grace, evil, evil mega overlords. You know what I mean? I'm happy I'm happy to rebrand it to the Kempari building with other stuff in it. Yeah, a little long.
+
+[51:41] You need to tighten that up. Workshop it, tighten it up, get it back to me. Yeah. So uh for those of you also that never been to the Kampari Academy, go check it out up there on the 19th floor. They got a they got a nice little space.
+
+[51:51] All right, so what was your question? So uh I'm I'm making a soup on this uh nice cool Virginia afternoon, and uh I'm gonna use leaks. And I know your stance on leaks and not wanting to deal with the dirt. What I've always done is cut them first and then washed them. And I'm wondering, does this is there a reason that this makes me a low quality individual?
+
+[52:13] Is this like monstrous behavior? Or it depends on what you mean by cut. The the classic thing is to slice it almost down to the root in half, break it open so the root stays intact, and then like fudge it around and then slice it into rings. You mean you slice it in rings, put it in the spinner, and then go blah blah blah blah. That's probably the smartest way to do it.
+
+[52:29] That's what I do too, yeah. It's smart. Smart. I mean, that's the way I that's the way I do, you know, cilantro, and that's the way I do parsley, it's the way I do everything. So I just never thought to do it with leaks because I had been taught the old idiot way, you know.
+
+[52:44] Because if you but if you don't ring it, you can't do it that way. You can't do the classic leak cleaning technique that way. Yeah. You know what I mean? God bless the sales binner.
+
+[52:54] God bless the colander. You know what I'm saying? How many how many rinses do you need on the rings to get them clear? Because what I hate about leeks is also like some some celery, but you're celery's not as much of a pain in the butt because you're not doing that much of it. Is the persistent, the persistent dirt on the bottom of the leek.
+
+[53:09] You know what I'm saying? Do you have to sit there and scrub a lub? You know what the best way to clean leeks is, by the way? Have someone else do it. It's for sure the best way.
+
+[53:17] It's for sure the best. It's like peeling shrimp. The best, the best shrimp peeler is somebody else. But uh no, that's a good uh that's it's good technique. I mean, I just you know what?
+
+[53:27] You know what? I'm uh I'm I'm grown now, I'm uh 52 years old. Maybe I'll go back to leeks. I'll do it, I'll do it your way. I appreciate I appreciate the impetus.
+
+[53:37] I can stop my my I know stop my hate talk. But uh still. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't sinning by doing it. No, I mean, I mean, look, I don't I don't think anyone's gonna get mad at that. I mean, theoretically, you're leaching a little bit.
+
+[53:49] Who cares? You know what I mean? Like, honestly, who cares? You know what I'm saying? Um, anyway.
+
+[53:55] Uh was that was that uh we just wanted to add I think uh you're doing fine. And uh go uh check out uh check out your uh Josh's class at the the Compari Academy. Maybe we'll put something up on the Patreon so people know where to get it. All right. Oh cool.
+
+[54:07] I I swear I wasn't calling for the plug, but I appreciate it very much. Thank you. Why not plug, right? Uh all right. All right, Gordon Stahl writes in baking soda science.
+
+[54:16] Uh, how does baking soda reaction work in honeycomb candy? So honeycomb candy, sea foam candy, foam candy. Uh you guys know what we're talking about here. So you you take a sugar syrup up to a real high temperature, like on the order of like 300 Fahrenheit, you stick baking soda into it. It foams up like real cream.
+
+[54:29] Yeah. They call it different things depending on where you are, but like it's big in Buffalo and it's delicious. And you can cut it in blocks and then dip it in chocolate. It's good. You like that stuff?
+
+[54:40] It's kind of like uh not an aero bar because that's chocolate, but that's and that's done with a vacuum. But like if you guys have you ever done the vacuum chocolate, yeah. It's good. Yeah, it's good. I mean, like the flavor really, whatever.
+
+[54:53] It's fun. I like it. Weird texture. Do you remember? You remember Stu Pak, Alex Stupak used to do uh ice cream in a vacuum?
+
+[55:01] I don't think I tried that. Any of you guys ever had a styles? Did you have that from a sto from Stu Pac? No. So, like what he used to do is a food saver used to make these weird little food saver things that were like hard containers.
+
+[55:15] And so um, you know, Stupak was using like uh a Carpagani LB 100 was his uh was his ice cream maker down there at WD. And he would do a draw directly into the food saver, and then he would stick it right in the vacuum machine and would suck a vacuum, and the ice cream, all the overrun will go pfft. And so all of a sudden now, instead of it being like, you know, 30% overrun, is like 300% overrun. It's like super high. Uh and then um when the air went back in, it wouldn't go back into the container.
+
+[55:46] So it maintained its vacuum. And then you would throw it in the freezer and you would uh hard set it at that. And I think he must have put some stabilizer in it because when it came out, you know, other than crema or whatever, uh when it came out, it ate almost like angel food cake, but it was ice cream and then it would melt. It was the craziest wild. It was the craziest texture.
+
+[56:06] Yeah, it was super cool. Uh anyway, so back to this. So uh it's the baking soda with uh with the honeycomb. I recently learned how to make my grandma's print peanut brittle. It's aerated with baking soda, similar to the British honeycomb candy.
+
+[56:17] Back on my first attempt, it came out too pale in color. So I assumed I didn't cook it hot enough or long enough, but it also did not inflate. That got me thinking about how these candies actually work. There's no acid in the recipe, and at 300 Fahrenheit, there's hardly any water left either. Uh so is this some kind of direct thermal decomposition of the baking soda and what gets left behind in terms of the sodium from a thermal decomposition, I might guess sodium carbonate.
+
+[56:36] That's also what I would guess. Uh, but that would be horrible. Interestingly, there uh also isn't any salt in the original recipe, but there's a whole lot of baking soda. So I could imagine that the sodium that's left uh might be critical for the flavor, but what form would it be in? Uh yeah, you know what?
+
+[56:48] It's an interesting question. I've always taken that it is thermal decomposition because baking soda will start dec uh decomposing uh, you know, uh once it gets over uh about a hundred Celsius. It'll just start randomly decomposing. It'll lose a third of its weight, but you will get sodium carbonate over. I'm wondering whether it doesn't taste too much like it because it's, as you say, not really in solution, like somehow locked into the sugar.
+
+[57:11] Maybe that's why it doesn't taste overly basic, but it's a really interesting question. I'm gonna have to raise that with the next kind of candy theorist uh that I speak to. Um Math Man had another baking soda, baking sodium carbonate-related question. I recently tried, uh yeah, I think you just weren't hot enough. You weren't hot enough, is the issue.
+
+[57:28] Uh I think that that's gotta be it because it needs to be hot enough to stay and to decompose and to and to and to air up. Um so get it hot enough and it should work. Uh or yeah. Uh hey cooking issues team. I recently tried making uh the caramel syrup that I talked about uh on the podcast, two to one sugar to water with sodium carbonate cooked in a pressure cooker for 75 minutes.
+
+[57:47] When done, it had a nice caramel color and a heady, uh, sweet pretzel smell. I neutralized the acid with citric acid instead of malloc, like he recommended since I was out of malic. While the pretzel smell went away, it didn't taste very caramelly. It had a metallic or strange uh aftertaste, um, no matter the level of neutralization. I assumed uh was it a citric or is what's wrong?
+
+[58:06] You know what? You know what, Math Man? I gotta think about this. Uh it's weird when I neutralize those things, they do in fact go lighter and lose some of their caramel. So I I'm gonna work on it more.
+
+[58:18] I don't know the answer, but it's an excellent question. Why does it kind of uncaramel when you add the the uh stuff? I didn't get a metallic taste in what I did, but I'll I'll run another couple of tests and you deserve more answers, so I will get it to you. Bruce Blink Brinkstein writing, going to Paris in April. Any recommendations?
+
+[58:34] I like everything. Wasn't there some cheese shop you mentioned a few years back? Yeah, look, there's a million cheese shops. My favorite is Bartolome, if you like uh the kind of cheeses I like. Is it still cold?
+
+[58:43] Uh April's gonna be a little bit too late for Vacherin. Sorry, my sorry. Sorry, Bruce Bullingstein. You're gonna miss the Vacherin Mondor, but you still you should go to Bartolome. Uh what other we'll on the Patreon?
+
+[58:53] Let's get a good list of uh of cheese shops. Uh, you know, I always go to Bartalome, but also you should go to the Beaufort place. Holy crap. They only do like Beaufort and other like from that from that region, like and like you know, beer from that region, but like the Beaufort that they have makes all other Beaufort look like idiots, and it's run by the commune for Beaufort. Took me three days of going there every day for them to finally be like, you're okay.
+
+[59:16] Uh Justin Cheryl writes in uh nuts question. I make chocolate nut barks from uh nuts, I dunk in simple syrup, then roast and process and scatter over chocolate. So far, so normal. I found the nuts lose their roasted color after a few weeks. The flavor might be reduced a bit, but it's hard to tell if that's just from visual association.
+
+[59:31] Why do they lose color and how can I avoid it? I needed someone to tell me or send me a picture because I have not experienced this phenomenon. Have you experienced this at all? Like a roasted nut losing its color over time. I don't think so.
+
+[59:43] This is not something I'm familiar with, Justin. So someone, someone, if they're also familiar with it, uh, send me, send me it. Um also, if there's any art history people out there, I'm looking for an I think it's an art forum, an article from 1990 to 1992 about the difficulty in performing critiques on art that's related to personal things like personal stories and personal like your body, like like illnesses you might have, because I want to see how cringy that is now if I read it 30, you know, 20 something years, 30 years later, because uh that's what we were used to reading art history back in the 90s. So if any of you have a line on that art, my Google has failed me, so I wasn't able to Google it. But if any of you know what I'm talking about and can find me that article at Appreciate It, Cooking Issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York State, joined as usual with John behind me. How are you doing, John? Doing great, thanks. Yeah?
+
+[0:20] Yeah. Really? Yeah. All right. Got uh Joe Hazenrocking the panels.
+
+[0:24] What's up? Uh a little technical issues, but we're all solved now. Yeah. Hey, when we were waiting before the uh show is starting. Do you ever watch that Rachel Ray thing where they're waiting before the interview?
+
+[0:32] It was like a viral thing like 15 years ago, and she's like completely ignoring her guests. And it's the most uncomfortable video you've ever seen. It's amazing. Go watch it. It's awesome.
+
+[0:41] I was thinking about it. Yeah. Uh upper upper left, Quinn, how you doing? Everything good? I'm good.
+
+[0:47] Good, good. Down in uh Los Angeles, I believe they're both in Los Angeles, Jackie Molecules and Nastasia Hamber Lopez. How are you two doing? Good. Yeah?
+
+[0:56] Yeah? All right. And uh today, also from Los Angeles, but in New York, so it's strange. We brought Los Angeles to New York. Uh today's very special guest, uh, Mike Capo Ferry, which I believe means head of the iron.
+
+[1:07] Head of iron. Like Chief Iron Man. Yeah, stubborn family. Iron Man, right? Ironheads.
+
+[1:13] Iron, yeah, sweet. Ironheads, yeah. Right. And uh you are the uh force behind Thunderbolt LA bar, awesome bar where uh Nastasia and I did a uh like uh an event and slash pop-up and Harold McGee was there. Apple head dolls.
+
+[1:28] Apple head dolls. Yeah. Everyone came out. It was great fun. That was great.
+
+[1:31] Yeah, yeah. Thank you for that. Well, thanks for coming. So uh since we're shooting the thing at the beginning of the show, we're shooting the breeze about uh what happened uh either right now or in the past uh week or so. What what's what brings you to uh our fine city?
+
+[1:43] We are uh sort of starting the year of pop-up travel. Uh we did a sort of class on carbonation and on methyl cellulose at Bar Calico yesterday in the freehand hotel, and then a little pop-up, and then tonight another pop-up, Jackson Bond, five till twelve-ish, five, eleven, twelve, something like that. Yeah, yeah. So uh if you're listening on Patreon, uh yeah, between but remember, they have cocktails until they don't need more. So you might want to show up really a lot.
+
+[2:09] I I would come early. Uh the plan is to sell out by like 9:30 or 10 because I'm tired. Right. Now we made a lot. And if you're looking up uh and you do you did a pop-up also yesterday or just a class yesterday?
+
+[2:19] We did a it was like it was a pop-up. It was uh about an hour class and then two hour happy hour. We just did two drinks. Like the two drinks we did in the class, we served for a happy hour for about 40 people. Yeah.
+
+[2:30] Tonight's like four cocktails full on pop-up takeover. So speaking of methylcellulose before we get onto the rest of the week's stuff, I was talking to someone who first of all, people, if you're gonna get methyl cellulose for cocktail work, there's only one. Don't just buy methyl cellulose. You need F like Frank, 50. It drives me crazy how many times I get DMs saying this recipe doesn't work.
+
+[2:53] I'm like, well, what'd you buy? And they're like, uh, yeah. Don't buy the one like, for instance, specifically the one that uh uh El the bully, El Bully, the fa Ferran Adria one is the one that's meant for hot gel, right? So the classic old school like knucklehead, like uh modern chef technique is to use the other kinds of methyl cell to take things that turn to gels when you heat them. So like Wiley used to do the thing where he would squeeze like uh like a a liquid out of a squeeze bottle into hot soup and it would turn into a noodle in the bowl, or like all of the hot ice cream stuff from you know back in the day.
+
+[3:29] F-50 is the one that was uh that is is for whipping. So that's the one we all used to make our meringues out of. And if you have enough solids, like we used to make just passion fruit puree and f 50 and then dehydrate them to make meringues. They're great, but they don't hold well. Maybe they hold in LA, it's pretty dry.
+
+[3:44] They don't hold in New York. Yeah. Maybe they hold in Arizona. Arizona they'll hold. Yeah.
+
+[3:48] Speaking of which, next week, if anyone's gonna be in Arizona, uh Jack Shram and I are doing a bar smarts presentation in Phoenix, I don't know, Wednesday, Thursday, something, and they never bother saying that we're gonna show up. So, you know, I I think you can sign up. I don't know. I don't know where to or how to sign up. So, you know, uh oh, and if you have questions for us or for Mike, uh and you're listening live on Patreon, calling your questions to 917-410 1507.
+
+[4:11] That's 917-4101507. Uh, and before I finish Methylcell, uh, why don't you uh John tell them how to uh join the Patreon or why they would want to do that? Patreon.com slash cooking issues. You get access to a bunch of great things by signing up. We got three different levels of membership.
+
+[4:26] You get different perks at every level. Uh you get access to our Discord with access to like-minded people and other listeners of the show. It's a great community resource. Um helps us get great guests. We've got a couple exciting people in the works.
+
+[4:39] Um Yeah, just a lot of good things. Discounts with Kitchen Arts and Letters, Edwards H meets other partners occasionally. Um yeah, so check it out. Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Yeah.
+
+[4:48] Uh so back to methyl cellulose for a second. Uh so yeah, you need the F50. There used to have another one called E. I forget which. There's so the the first letter, like F or or S G is the series that it's in.
+
+[5:00] You need the F. The second is the viscosity of it. So, and I forget whether it's a 1% or 2% solution, but that's I think it's 1% expected 50 50 centipoise, which is roughly 50 times thicker than water, which is still thin. It's still thin, right? So anyway, uh they used to have one called E that was for films to make like wafer papers and stuff.
+
+[5:19] You know what happened? What happened? Factory blew up. Factory exploded. Because of the methyl cellulose?
+
+[5:25] Or all powders are dangerous. Right. So like they discovered uh so one of the big uh inventions of the 1800s in in flour milling was this like classifier system. And the you know, they so they started like uh you know blowing a lot of flour around, and then they also started storing flour in massive quantities as mills started getting together, and so then they started blowing up and then they had to like mitigate that. Yeah, any sort of aerosolized powder, real static.
+
+[5:50] Like, yeah, you know, you know, and blow up a factory. Anywho, so uh yeah, get the right get the right methyl cell. Yeah, a lot of people buy high viscosity, they just call it HV methyl cellulose, and it's the worst. It's like the opposite of F50, and so they just end up with like you know, yeah, play-doh. The whole point of F50, folks, is that it's thin but has w whipping ability, right?
+
+[6:13] Now, uh I've been, you know, doing because I'm doing the what's it called, uh the remake. So I've been revisiting using all my old methyl cell powder and stuff. Uh what percentage do you I I so like I'm using it, I I try to make a syrup with it that can be used at the same ratio as egg white, so half ounce of the methyl cell syrup, it's not even syrup, half ounce of the meth of the goop is enough to do a whole cocktail. Like, what do you what are you using? Well, we're we're we're kind of doing that, but we're going one step further and making that into a 50 brick syrup that has half a percent methyl cellulose.
+
+[6:41] And so then the cocktail would have three quarters. Yeah, whatever. So we're doing like um we essentially make a semi rich simple syrup. So it's like 400 water, 600 sugar, disperse the methyl cellulose into the other 200 of hot water, yeah, get that in there, and so we end up with a 50 bricks half a percent methyl cellulose syrup. And then we will either use that for sours, so you're not adding that extra dilution of a half ounce of just methylcellulose water.
+
+[7:10] Um, or we like the cocktail on our menu, we then will add like a flavor to that. So straight methyl cellulose works really well with like a concentrate. We use a passion fruit concentrate to make uh like a mezcal sour. If we're working with something thinner, I find the foam holds a little better if you use uh they either call it foam magic or magic foam. It's got xanthan in it and it's predispersed with maltodextrin.
+
+[7:33] And so we'll use that for if we're using like strawberry juice and want to make a strawberry methyl cellulose syrup, we'll use also a little Xantha and also a little maltodextrin. I've done a bunch of Xanthan tests. So like uh I made some syrup with it. Um, but then I just look, I think if you're gonna use it in a specific drink, yeah, that's the way to go, right? It's just I wanted to have something so that at any minute you could replace an egg white in any cocktail.
+
+[7:59] And I was like, if you're gonna do an egg white cocktail, you want that lighter flavor anyway. Um so I don't know. I just made a we make it's really concentrated mine though. Like regularly concentrated. Oh, I forget.
+
+[8:10] It's something, it's something such that I did the math based on what I used to use for foaming. I'd have to look it up because I wasn't prepared to talk about it. Yeah, but uh, I did the math based on um the finished volume of a drink at a half ounce. So like you can't blend, you don't use a blender on my stuff. You blend it, we well, you mix it in with hot water.
+
+[8:29] Listen, people mix it in with disperse it. See the the key word that Mike used here was disperse, right? Nonhydrate. I had a guy tell me he wanted to like put it directly into water in a blender, like hold it. No, but no, you can have a lot of air in it.
+
+[8:41] If you get the foam magic from modernists that's predispersed in malted extrin, you can. You can use it. I'm in front of the F50, though. Oh, for F50, no, you it's a nightmare. It's a nightmare.
+
+[8:49] Because like I I took I told this guy I was talking to him, he was like, well, won't the air settle out? I'm like, if you have a month, I literally did one in the freezer for like overnight, and the foam might settle out. Yeah, I mean the ratio that I was using is freaking like anyway. So like anyway, hot. Disperse hot.
+
+[9:06] Disperse hot. I just throw in a couple of ice cubes and stir it with a spoon. Oh, that's smart. We just do we do two thirds of our water phase ice cold and one third of our water phase boiling hot and we disperse into the hot, stir into the cold. It's really fast.
+
+[9:19] Especially if you if instead of using the water for the cold phase, you're using cold syrup. So you already have your sugar in there. Right. Then you don't have to stir again and create more foam. So every it's like it's very, very fast.
+
+[9:31] Right. So the key is do not blend once you're making it cold. Stir. No. Stir.
+
+[9:35] Stir. Stir. Yeah, don't even whisk. Stir. Yeah.
+
+[9:38] Use a bar spoon. Because like the whole point of this goop is that it holds. And the problem with air, frankly, is that then you can't jigger it right. I mean, if well, you're not, I mean, like, I guess you are jiggering it because you're not doing a pre-batch yet. We're doing, well, we're doing a pre-batch for the menu cocktail, the passion fruit one that has about half a percent methyl cellulose.
+
+[9:54] Um, you have a straight 50 bricks unflavored methyl cellulose syrup. So 50% sugar, half a percent methyl cellulose that we use for like someone orders a whiskey sour. Um and we've played around with doing that one with also having the xanthan and the multixtrin, and it works a little better. And it's easier to make. Well, so I've been doing, I think I want to say like a quarter percent in the cocktail.
+
+[10:17] Which is a lot compared to the syrup. Yeah, because we're we're at like we're at less than that. If we're using half, if we're using three quarters of an ounce of uh half a percent. Five and a half ounce. Yeah, so you're doing a tenth of a tenth of a percent, probably.
+
+[10:30] Yeah, back at the French culinary days, we were doing like a lot of tasting, and you really like once you start getting up over a half a percent finished volume of methyl cell, you can really start tasting it, right? So, like all of our recipes, we would try to knock the cellulose back, and we used to do like a bunch of texture uh effects. So I was trying to push it so that like the finished cocktail would be around 0.2.25, which is why you really can't blend the stuff that I'm using. Like you cannot blend it. But the advantage of it is is that you don't need uh any Xanthan.
+
+[11:02] Like because I did a side by side of it with and without the Xanthan. And uh, you know, jacking the Xanthan way down, just like a little bit of Xanthan. And in the foam, right? So when you're doing Xanthan and an orjah, you know, it's fine. You need it, right?
+
+[11:17] Especially like all these people doing high solids or saying that the, you know, you need to add extra xanthan because you do, right? But um, I don't know. There's something about when I put the xanthan in, it did hold slightly better over like 20 minutes of sitting. Can you feel it? You could see it.
+
+[11:32] It's not even that you could feel it. Like when you I I handed two cocktails to my wife, and I was like, bring this up to your face. Don't even taste it. Bring it up to your face. What do you see?
+
+[11:42] And like the one that was Xanthan, she's like, it's a little bit Santa Claus in the belly. And I'm like, yes, it's a little bit like a bowl full of jelly. You know what I mean? And so, like, I don't know. If you can get away without the Xanthan.
+
+[11:54] Yeah, like the one we're doing tonight, like we'll we'll be doing the barcelonette. It's like uh we're using a Satole, but it's like a Satole, passion fruit, Seuss, Lime. But the passion fruit is a essentially like a 40 bricks, right? Half a percent, no, sorry, like a third of a percent methyl cellulose syrup. That we went 40 bricks so I can use a full ounce of it, and we get a lot of passion fruit out of it.
+
+[12:15] And the way we do it, it's like this massive time saver is because acid's in it, dilution's in it, it's at nineteen Fahrenheit, and all we do is pour four ounces, hit it with a milk frother and pour it in the glass, and it's like the fastest sour in the world. It's like lightning fast. So we'll be doing that one tonight. And we made that's the one we made. The battery powered jobbies, or yeah, a little five dollar on Amazon little, you know, little blitz.
+
+[12:35] Yeah, I'm for those things. Like one second. Do you but uh at uh Thunderbolt, don't you use the uh the the Hamilton? Yeah, when we go on the road, we use the little milk frothers at Thunderbolt. We have the Hamilton Beach, like the stick blenders that everyone.
+
+[12:46] I never uh I know what like you freaking Garrett, like apparently they're great. They're great. Apparently they're they're good machines. Yeah, I mean they're even good for prep. Like you can use them, you can use them in prep as well.
+
+[12:57] They're good blenders. Yeah, yeah. And they're not that expensive, they're not loud. I mean, they're not that expensive. They're like if you get the Hamilton Beach name brand one, they're like 400 bucks.
+
+[13:07] But if you buy the Websterant Event Co. or whatever their brand is, it's you know, $180. And it's you know it's is it as good? Maybe that's not as good looking. It's not no, it's not as good looking.
+
+[13:18] That it's got plenty of power for what we do, but the way that the it's not as like it's not as analog. There's not just like a straight like on off thing. You have to like use their cup and it has to like press the safety button and then it will blend. Oh, I hate that. It drives me fine.
+
+[13:34] I hate to hit it. Uh family show. Uh are the cups interchangeable? Not with the not with the event co. But for with us, like we're with the Hamilton Beach ones, we're mostly doing it in the tin.
+
+[13:44] Like we're never we're using a big tin. We're never like hanging it on there because we're using it for two seconds. Right. We're going in, we're just we're using the manual button. Right, here's it.
+
+[13:53] There's a little two little blitzes and then go. Don't do this, but have you done this? Foot pedal for a blender? For the for the for the yeah, for the spindle. So you can just walk up and go like bam, bam, bam, and keep your other hand free.
+
+[14:04] I love this idea. Yeah. You can buy really heavy duty, like, you know, momentary foot pedals. I used to use them all the time for stuff like stomp pedals, like old school, like yeah, yeah. Jono's what I'm talking about, loves a stomp pedal, loves it.
+
+[14:17] Oh yeah. Yeah, man. And they're rugged because they're meant for musicians to beat on them. Right. And animals on stage.
+
+[14:24] You know what I mean? Yeah. Uh so I mean, it's not safe because then someone could, you know, step on it, but they're not unsafe. They're the little thing that's that's like the the hardest type of blender to hurt yourself on. And now that I say that, someone at the airboat's going to hurt themselves on it.
+
+[14:39] But like, you know, that it's not really like a sharp blade in there. It's like a little dish. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[14:46] Uh anyway, try it out. Yeah. Great idea. Yeah. I love a love of hands-free.
+
+[14:50] Oh, yeah. I detest having to touch, especially because like what if you're doing something with this other hand? Yeah. You know, ideally, you're doing something. Squeezing a lime, flicking somebody off, something you need to, you know, you're never you you always usually have a foot free.
+
+[15:04] That's funny because uh you you you'd love my home. Uh I have our kitchen set up as a um almost like a restaurant dishwasher where you the on off with the hot and cold of the sink in the um in in the kitchen is uh foot-driven, like a yeah, like you're playing piano the pedal of a piano. Yeah, foot pedal. See, I got foot pedal sink. Why would anyone yeah, why would you ever want to touch a faucet?
+
+[15:25] I don't want to do those, even the kinetic energy where you touch the faucet. No, no, no. I don't want to touch it. You know what else I don't like? I know it's better.
+
+[15:33] I don't want to sit there and wave at my faucet. I'm not friends with it. You know what I mean? On, off with the foot. You know what I mean?
+
+[15:40] Anyway. Uh man, I feel like we got into some good stuff stuff right away. Well, I meant to like uh yeah. Anyway, yeah. So uh anyone got anything from sleep now from the past week.
+
+[15:52] Anyone? Anyone? Temperance wind bar is the newest carrier of uh the solid wiggles. Oh, wait, wait, what? Oh, yeah.
+
+[15:59] What happened? Temperance, uh we got solid wiggles now. Oh nice. That's exciting, yeah. All right.
+
+[16:02] Some of the products, yeah. Come in, come in and buy you some uh some jello. Exactly. Yeah. Uh well what were you saying there, uh molecules?
+
+[16:11] So uh my girlfriend's parents were in town for the week, and uh her cousin took us to some restaurant that will go unnamed in Los Angeles that had that had a water menu, which is something that I haven't seen yet. Like like a twenty twenty to twenty-five page water menu. Give me the price range. Give me the price range. Well, there's a water thumb there.
+
+[16:33] That's the thing. I mean, the the most expensive bottle was maybe twenty dollars. And you know, one of the pages was Fiji. So it seemed like a whole page of Fiji. Correct.
+
+[16:45] Well, you know, each page had like a photo of the bottle with like descriptions of where the water comes from and the whatever. You know, like uh this one wasn't equal like this tastes square. It wasn't even, you know, fancy rare like weird water. It was just it was it was one of the dumbest things I've seen in a restaurant. Did they have uh did they have uh my three phase?
+
+[17:07] Did they have uh Vichy Catalan? I didn't make it very far into the water menu. Well, if you started alphabetically, did they have a Polinaris? I think that's a good water. Uh I don't think it was alphabetical.
+
+[17:18] Girlsteiner. These are three of my favorite waters. Yeah, yeah. It's a good waters. Great water.
+
+[17:24] Carol Steiner's great. Yeah. They also had like uh eighty eight uh eighty day aged um ribeye, which was I thought you were gonna say 80 80 David Forest. Uh but uh yeah, age aged in the world's best plastic. Yeah, how was it?
+
+[17:43] Uh it was fine. Yeah. You seem uh non-plussed. Non plus by the let me ask you this. Would you have enjoyed the whole meal more if you hadn't first buyed the water menu?
+
+[17:55] Um, I mean, it was fine. It was a very overpriced place, you know. One of these kinds of LA places. I don't know. 80 days seems too long to it just take.
+
+[18:05] People do infinity. Some people do infinity. I don't know, man. 80 drier infinity. Uh 80, you know, my dream is to, you know, uh, you know, now that there's global, you know, warming, go to the permafrost.
+
+[18:20] I mean, not right now because of the you know the troubles over there, but like when the when the uh uh what's it called thaws out, you know, the um what it woolly mammoth, get a chunk of that, you know, 10,000 year dry age. You know what I mean? There you go, there you go. Uh I would eat that. I think everyone would eat that.
+
+[18:37] Oh, yeah. I mean, if you're not you eat woolly mammoths, but you got mad at whale. It's dead. It's been dead for 10,000 years. It wasn't even killed by a person.
+
+[18:46] You might have to fight off Nathan Miravald for that one. I mean, well, yeah, probably. Uh like it's been a dream of mine, like uh it's been a dream of mine for years to just a little bit of one of those uh thought-out like megafauna from Siberia. I think it would be you know something to do. Something to yeah.
+
+[19:05] There's probably like a black market for that. I think they're super rare. There's uh there was an outfit in Korea who was buying all of the stuff they could so that they could do DNA sequencing on it so that they could like Jurassic Park one, you know, and then ingestate it in a modern elephant and then like bootstrap uh bootstrap the woolly mammoth back into the world. And uh I think if it had worked, we would have heard about it. Yeah, I think so.
+
+[19:32] You know what I mean? That's not the kind of thing you can keep uh under wraps. Yeah. No, I don't think so. Hey, by the way, uh so uh so that was a sad story there, Jack.
+
+[19:43] You went to an expensive place, you know, emptied your your pocketbook and uh didn't even get fancy water. Oh no, I didn't. I did not know. This was her cousin, it was her cousin's birthday. This is all out of my control.
+
+[19:54] I was just uh you know a guest at this dinner. Oh, is it still out of your pocketbook? No. Fine. So great meal then.
+
+[20:02] But I did take them to uh I took them to Kesmit instead, which they loved. Did they serve ice there? Did they serve ice menu? Like an ice menu? I would love a nice menu.
+
+[20:12] Oh no, no, that would be great, though. I'd I'd be into that. I would love an ice menu. I would love an ice menu. Um how much does ice cost in LA, by the way?
+
+[20:20] Like cocktail ice or cocktail ice, like like two and a quarter, two and a half inch cubes. What's a two and a half cube plus ice? We buy a little bit smaller ice, and I think we're netting out at like sixty cents for a cube, but they may the the bigger, like two and a quarter cubes, um closer to eighty, I think. It's like a significant percentage of the poor. It's a big percentage of the poor, and we serve almost everything on because we don't have a cold drive machine and we shake and stir with pebble and we serve everything on large format ice, and so we buy spears for Collins and rocks for our anything down, and it's a significant part of the pore cost.
+
+[20:57] Yeah, well, this is kind of funny. Uh, might as well talk about it now before we go uh any further. It's like he uh at Thunderbolt, I think what's interesting is that you know all the bartenders are like, you know, real like the bartender bartenders, right? They could go anywhere and work at a bar, but you guys have completely like thrown out you're like we don't need the cold draft machine. You know, in other words, like you don't take for granted what other bars uh say that you need for a particular kind of service, and you just work around your recipes to achieve the result you want with the workflow you want.
+
+[21:29] And it in a way I think it's uh different from most other places. You want to talk about that? Yeah, I think uh it was kind of like if we're if we're gonna talk about like a silver lining of it taking four and a half years for us to open from when we sign the lease to opening day. Uh the silver lining of that was uh we knew the menu before we ordered the equipment, is kind of what it comes down to. I think so.
+
+[21:47] Like we we weren't like shoehorning new techniques into a bar that was designed by an architect. We got to design the equipment sort of around what we wanted to do, which was really great. And we built carbonators into the walls of the bar die wall and like, you know, still in sparkling taps at every well and things like that that you're able to do if you like if you can think ahead. Um and it's also sort of it bites us in the ass sometimes. So like the ethos was like, let's remove anything that's unnecessary, um, even from the process.
+
+[22:14] Like if we can make it more consistent faster and we can get a drink in your hand uh faster and it's perfect every time, like let's do that. And so that's why we have like the the refrigeration that we can put like at the freezing point of the cocktail. And you know, occasionally we get that bad review of like they pre-bench the martinis there, it's terrible. And then like you have to like go on Yelp and respond, like, hi, like you can't make this without doing that because there's no water in it, whatever. Anyway, we stopped.
+
+[22:37] We just like turned off all notifications for all reviews, because I will never look at a Yelp review again because I yeah, there's I can't respond, and I just look at not, I don't have the power. I'm not mature enough to not respond. Yeah, you can't respond. Can't respond. You can't respond.
+
+[22:51] Yeah. It's like uh, you know, yeah, you're just yeah. It's a losing battle. Someone who like maybe didn't even ever go there, like writes some crazy stuff. Yeah.
+
+[23:00] And you're just like, okay. Yeah. Okay. Just gotta take it. Yeah.
+
+[23:04] My dream is uh to start a bar called one star bar, where you give everyone for the first like six months a free drink that gives you a one-star review. And so you control it, so you always have one star. Nice. And they can write something nice if they want. But then people who use Yelp to find a bar don't come to your bar because those tend to be the worst customers.
+
+[23:23] Yeah. So that's whether it's gonna be hard to convince someone with money to fund that project, but uh it's you know, it's it's in there. Is because it's got the star bar in it, is it a Japanese theme bar? It it can be anything, you know. It could be it could be a dive, it could be a very fancy buttoned up.
+
+[23:39] I think it has to be very fancy. Yeah, and it's very expensive. Yeah. I think it has to be super duper money. You know what I mean?
+
+[23:45] Like, yeah, I like the high-lo, the high low thing. Like is your because Thunderbolt LA, you've you've uh streamlined your service and all of this stuff, and I don't know why, but as a I don't know as a result, but also your you keep your prices pretty reasonable. I mean, like I don't know whether they're low. They just went up. Like I think we're our highest cocktail is 18 bucks now.
+
+[24:04] Everything was 14 for years and then it went up to 15, and then you know, everyone else in LA is getting 20 bucks plus a cocktail. But we're trying to be cognizant of like we're not in like a super wealthy neighborhood. We don't want to alienate the people that live around us. So we like what we sacrifice on poor cost, we make up for with like having less bartenders on in a night because the drinks are faster. So like labor we can make up for, you know, we're we're able to like balance it out.
+
+[24:30] It's not a typical bar PL if you compare it to like most bars. Yeah, so uh uh one star bar though, like a taccate is 22 bucks. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
+
+[24:40] Yeah, 20 $20 beers. Well then the one star bar has to it has to end up with a Michelin star by the end to complete the cycle, you know. Yeah, all you need to do is hire the right PR person and you're good. You know what I mean? Hire the right PR person, uh, you know, and will will it to happen, get the right people in there, the right pictures taken.
+
+[24:59] One star on Yelp, one star in Michelin. Yeah, that's it. That's the goal. And I think, you know, somebody listening probably wants to fund this for us. So you know the call-in number.
+
+[25:08] And then, you know, the harder one's gonna be, you know, a couple years later when you try to open two-star. That's harder on both things. It's hard to get an exact two on Yelp and you know, two Michelin stars for a bar. Never happened. Yeah, it'd be a first.
+
+[25:23] You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, but if Jiro can get three stars, we can do anything. Okay, great. Yeah, no, I'll take your word for it.
+
+[25:29] I've never been. Yeah, gotta be, you know, 85 years old, gotta be in a subway station, gotta have a movie made about it. It's gonna say three Michelin. If you can get a Netflix movie, yeah, then you can have whatever you want. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[25:40] Yeah. Every time I mention that place and stash it gets triggered. Yeah. Did you hear it happen? The trigger happened?
+
+[25:46] Yeah, I can hear it. Rice does. Yeah, yeah. No, it doesn't bother me. Yeah, uh, nice, good.
+
+[25:51] Hey, speaking of uh uh that uh they've built the majority of the spin's offs. Now we just gotta get them shipped to the United States. Is that true, Stas? Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[26:02] Exciting, right? You excited? I'm excited. You sound excited. Yes, yeah, right.
+
+[26:08] There are a lot of very excited people to get these. Yeah, I appreciate that. Mike actually, we did not rig this. It's just because you also were the biggest placer of orders, had the most uh entries into the raffle. You were the winner of the uh raffle.
+
+[26:20] Yeah, we got the prototype. Yeah, we've got to be. What do you think? Yeah, we've been we've been beating it up and it's doing great. Yeah.
+
+[26:26] Yeah, we've run um, we've run a lot of stuff through it we've been doing a lot of batch mode stuff and we I like won't go too far down a rabbit hole for people who don't care about spin cells on the that are listening but um yeah continuous mode batch mode everything's been great it's fast it's cut I mean we were doing 15 minute cycles for uh Hustinos and for like uh tomato we do in batch mode and now we're running four or five minutes a lot faster way faster way faster yeah better stronger faster yeah it's the Lindsay Wagner of uh Centerfuges you know bionic woman there you go if you remember her uh oh also I I'll be remiss to say uh next week we have Andre Mack he had to cancel before he's coming on so get your Andre Mack questions in and the week after that Michael Fabro is coming in to talk about Ikime and farm raised salmon coho salmon so raising them inland and then I don't know if he's doing needle through the spine I think he's just doing brain spike I'm I mean apparently it's an Ike rubber. Well I mean do you need a human to do it or no what do you mean yeah he's got an engineer who's like but it's brain spike only not spinal ablation so you know half half half half a J May but really Ikajime is just a killing technique the the Shinkanuki the spine ablation that's what I used to love you know uh like doing like testing that I mean I didn't enjoy the act of killing the fish and sticking the the rod up its spinal cord but I did enjoy the results of it. You know what I mean? Yeah yeah delicious it sounds tedious. I like the idea of a robot doing it.
+
+[28:00] Yeah, but I think maybe I'm soft but I think uh yeah, I mean, robot for the brain spike I could see doing, but I don't see I don't see a robot being able to do the spine. You know what I mean? I don't think there's robots looking like sew the skin in a grape. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you have a couple million dollars, yeah.
+
+[28:20] If you have a couple million dollars, you can buy one of those, like, you know, completely like it's basically human hands, and then you just motion control, yeah, for sure. But I mean, like if you're an actual company, like trying to sell fish, I don't think you can do it. You know what I mean? Like it's possible. Yeah, yeah, a lot of things are you know, we've sent someone to the moon before.
+
+[28:38] That's possible. You know what I mean? It's just not really, you know, likely. What about you, Quinn? You got anything this week that happened before we get into the uh meat of the question?
+
+[28:47] We got some meat already. I've started some projects. I'm applying my guanchale recipe to some goose brist, which I think would be interesting. And I have started two new regular guancholis, and I am starting to change one variable for each piece. Okay, nice.
+
+[29:14] Is it gonna be are you gonna make it the same level of dryness? Before you made it pretty dry, right? It was like dry. Like more like the one again. Yeah, like you were doing like La Quercia level, La Quercia level drying, not like Volpe level drying.
+
+[29:28] Like Volpe is like a wet, wetter guan chale, which I kind of like a wetter guan chale. Yeah, and La Querchus is like, you know, like a piece of wood. You can, you know, mail that to the future and it'll still be the same, you know what I mean? Where are you? Somewhere in between those two.
+
+[29:44] Have you had the La Quercha or no? I haven't had any of those. Yeah. Volpi, you probably had. If you just if you just buy Guan Chale somewhere, it's nine out of ten.
+
+[29:53] Well, maybe in the States, it's made by the Volpi Corporation, but no offense to Volpe. I like Volpe. It's fine, it's good. Yeah. Um, all right.
+
+[30:01] So uh and and are you thinking that uh that's the best thing to do with the goose because once you dry it, it's uh you're not gonna notice how stringy and tough it is because you're gonna slice it real thin. Well, no, I just I want I want it uh it it could have been a little fattier because it looks like kind of a young goose. But I'm basically trying to get the closest I can to a pork cheek or with poultry. I figured a goose breast would be decent. Why?
+
+[30:31] Why goose as pork? Like why is it goose? Why is a goose more porky than duck? I thought there'd be a bigger cat like fat cat on the breast. I don't know.
+
+[30:43] They raise a lot of ducks. I don't know, they do a good job raising ducks. Whatever. Anyway, let me know how it works out. Uh speaking of Queen, we have a question that only Quinn can answer.
+
+[30:52] You ready for this, guys? Ready? All right, you ready for this, Quinn? Yeah. All right, all right.
+
+[30:59] Uh where is it? Okay, from uh DJ Random 927. Hey team, I got a question about Umami. At this point, everyone is familiar with MSG. That's modern sodium glutamate, but there are other compounds that provide umami sensation, such as IMP, which is I believe in in I can't, whatever, IMP.
+
+[31:16] It's a rival nucleotide thing, monophosphate, uh, and uh GMP. From my understanding, these compounds amplify the effect of MSG, but do they actually contribute flavors on their own? Is there a point to using these compounds if you can just add more MSG? I can see in the case of dry preparations like chips, but uh in a lick a liquid preparation, what uh would it make any sense? Um and the reason they don't use it, uh the reason I think they use as little of it as possible.
+
+[31:39] I think it's a cost a lot more uh than uh MSG, which is fundamentally free. But uh my my friend uh DJ Random, you are in luck because my man Quinn happens to have bought 400 grams of a mix of uh IMP and uh GMP. And Quinn, how much of that 400 grams set you back? Um I don't remember. It wasn't like a lot of blame.
+
+[32:03] I think it was like 30, 40 bucks. Okay, so it's a lot for a potato chip manufacturer to do by the ton compared with MSG. So it's like 15 times or 20 times or 30 times the price of MSG, but it's not gonna break the bank of a homework. I'm sure it would also be, I'm sure it'd also be cheaper if you bought a lot more. Same with MSG though.
+
+[32:23] You know what I'm saying? What I'm saying is is that like it's the thing that would be expensive to use industrially, it and so you would minimize its use, but it's not relevant to the cost for someone like you or even for like John at the at the restaurant. That's what I'm getting from you. Yeah. Okay.
+
+[32:38] Now, you have not yet tasted it on its own. But there in next to you right now is a bowl of powder, and Quinn is gonna taste it for you random DJ. I do have to I do have a disclaimer. Okay. Because it was it the usage rate is so low.
+
+[32:59] It is dispersed. Uh I dispersed it in a little bit of multi dictionary. That's we shouldn't. That's fine. It's just it's just gonna make it sticky.
+
+[33:09] You have to eat more of it. All right, here we go. All right, ready? Come on, I feel like what do you got? There is like the aftertaste of a strong cheese.
+
+[33:29] Aftertaste of a strong cheese. Like obviously when you taste the parmesan or the really aged cheddar, you get the initial like savory hit. But then there's like the aftertaste. And I would say in other instances when I've cooked with it. Not with MSG, just on its own in other food.
+
+[33:58] Let me say it makes things taste more uh brothy. Yeah, well that makes that makes sense. I mean the whole point of it, I like how the base is still like decreasing down. Uh the whole point of it is that you can use less of everything when you put those things in in conjunction with MSG, and it's so people can reduce the salt. So, you know, if you you know, if you need to do that, especially IMP uh and GMP are non-sodium-based ones, right?
+
+[34:27] So anything they can do, because they they don't really care about reducing the these ones are sodium-based. Oh dithodium bromylate and disodium and oceanate. Uh all right. Well then, but the reason that most people add them to these mixes is as a way to reduce sodium. That's what they're doing, right?
+
+[34:49] They're trying to reduce overall sodium. But I will say, having tasted raw at Unilever years ago, one of their things where they're reducing sodium, everything tastes brothy. Everything tastes like, you know, dashi got added to it. And like I love dashi, right? But I don't want I don't want my Alfredo tasting like Dashi.
+
+[35:08] You know what I mean? Unless I do. And then I know how to do that. I got combu and bonito flakes, and then I can, yeah, you know what I'm saying? Anyway.
+
+[35:14] So uh Quinn, I'm gonna go ahead and say don't use it on its own, right? Not worth using on its own. No, don't use it on its own. But again, I do like I like using it again. Dilut is like this in small amounts strategically, because it's like in the same way there are uses for fish sauce, soy sauce, and pure MSG.
+
+[35:39] Sometimes you want a little bit of that pure brothy shit, and I would say it does increase both savory intensity, but also some complexity as well. Right, but like you just tasted it on its own and you said you got a little bit of a cheesy aftertaste. It's not like it in other words, yes, it's a synergistic thing, but uh it didn't appear, you weren't like, oh yeah. Oh yeah, uh I know that taste. You know what I mean?
+
+[36:07] You're like, eh, it's like brothy and a little bit cheesy aftertaste. It's not like I mean, like you this person wants to know whether they need to go out and buy this stuff and use it on its own. And what I was hearing from you Okay, what is what is use on its own mean? Like you would use you gonna put it in food. Right, but like in other words, like most people use it if you say brothy, MSG also makes things brothy.
+
+[36:31] So is there a reason to use just this stuff, which is 30 times the price of MSG, as opposed to just a little bit of this mixed in with a little bit of MSG as kind of a a Cezanne, as you know, as an as an accent powder, you know, uh brand name, you know, brand. Yeah. The other thing you have to consider is that a lottery bullion powder does also have this built in. Yes, I know that. But my but my point is it I wasn't getting from you an oh yeah, this flavor on its own is super duper important and you need to go buy it.
+
+[37:06] Like Succinic Acid, for instance, is super duper important, very unique. You use it in conjunction with other things, you don't use it on its own. You know what I'm saying? Anyway. If you if you're telling me, yeah, I can't live without this crap, and I need to buy it, as opposed to just using MSG, then say then are you saying that?
+
+[37:27] Again, I would say in the same way. You're asking me to say something on its own. Uh, is the main benefit is the synergistic effect. All right, you've answered yes. All right, there we go.
+
+[37:42] Got there. Yeah, yeah. All right. Dr. Smokehouse wants to know.
+
+[37:46] Uh, they make their own Nochino and they have two questions. Any cocktail recommendations for using the chino? I always make uh mate with some cinnamon and clothes, but I've added orange peel, star anise, and uh most recently elderberry flour. So looking for suggestions. Well, I don't really work with it much.
+
+[38:00] What about you guys? I know that Quinn loves it. Mike, you like it? Yeah, we've done some stuff with it. Um I've worked on a couple Italian restaurant menus and you know, old-fashioned Manhattan variations.
+
+[38:09] Now you have that Billy Joel song in my head. Son of a guy. Yeah. Uh bottle of red. God damn it.
+
+[38:17] That's not his worst work. No, it's not what's his worst work. Be careful. Oh man. We didn't start the fire.
+
+[38:25] Ooh. Uh Nastasia, what do you think of his live live performance if we didn't start the fire? It wait, he's saying that? I don't remember that. You don't remember?
+
+[38:34] Yeah, he played it live. Of course he did. You just blocked it and he blotted it out. Maybe. I blotted out all of the uh Brinkley era stuff.
+
+[38:42] What what do you say, Soss? Did you hear that they redid that song? I don't know who, but some new band. And they changed all the words. I've heard it.
+
+[38:52] Yeah. I I haven't heard it. I've heard that someone was doing that. Uh have you listened? You haven't listened to it or you have.
+
+[38:58] I change it when it comes on the radio. I don't want to hear it. God, it's Fallout Boy. Jeez. Oh, it's Fallout Boy, yeah.
+
+[39:04] Yeah, yeah. Uh yeah. Did they keep anything? Or is it all like new stuff? Well, the chorus is the same.
+
+[39:13] No, well, it's always been, you know, burning since the world's been turning. So there's no reason to change the chorus. Oh my god. The first stanza here has Monsanto and GMOs in it. Monsanto GMO.
+
+[39:26] Is that is that uh Nick Coleman doing it on Van Sur? Son of a gun. No, it's uh caridine. Oh my god. I can't keep my keratine straight.
+
+[39:39] I can never keep my carotene straight. I'm like, you mentioned one of them, they're all floating around in my head. I I didn't know there was more than one. Yeah, right? Yeah.
+
+[39:48] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Nochino. Old fashioned. Yeah?
+
+[39:54] Yeah. Yeah. Uh I somewhere I have the actual sugar level, so I can tell you what to sub it in for just on a sugar basis. Uh but you know, I've never seen my phone with it. We've just bought Nochino before.
+
+[40:04] No, but I'm saying, like uh I've I have uh I measured uh Dolan's Nochino and uh or not Dolan uh but you know whatever house alpines carries I measured their Nochino Nux Alpine. Yeah, Nux Alpine, yeah. I measured theirs uh their sugar level. And honestly, I'm like, whenever I think of this, uh all I'm thinking of is flavor and then how much sugar is my subbing in or out. That's all I remember.
+
+[40:25] It's not enough to be the only sweet in an old fashioned. I've tried that. I've not measured the sugar content. At what level of pour? Even like up to close half an ounce.
+
+[40:34] It's like not, it's still a very dry cocktail. And then, but what if you did one in one? You could do one in one. Is it an old fashioned still then? It does.
+
+[40:42] I mean, is it ever an old fashioned? Yeah, I don't know. But uh, yeah, one in one might get you there, but it's not, it's not frangelico sweet. I I talk about frangelico a lot because it's like 40 bricks, so I can use that like syrup in an old fashioned. And I love it.
+
+[40:55] That's like my favorite thing to do with it. It's like my bartender butter, but um the nuxal pina's not. Well, it's interesting you mentioned that. Are you ever gonna do that cocktail for me? The one my dream, because I'm never gonna do it.
+
+[41:04] Wait, which one? Where you uh it has to be on the back bar together, a bottle of Mrs. Butterworth's and a bottle of frangelico, because they're kind of married. Yeah, and then you know, a drink that has the both in them. You know what I mean?
+
+[41:19] Yeah, how hard could it be? Can't be hard. You know, it's like something else in it. It's well, you got corn syrup there. Corn syrup, uh, probably fenugreek or some sort of sautelone, and like a little bit of dicetile, right?
+
+[41:31] That's Mrs. Butterworth's, and then like whatever, you know, whatever nutty sugar frangelico is. You know what I mean? Yeah. But they that's a marriage made in heaven.
+
+[41:40] That sounds like a totally fine cocktail. Yeah. But frangelico almost sweet enough to put on pancakes on its own. Yeah. Uh I'm gonna open this because yeah, so uh Quinn, what I know you're a Nochino man.
+
+[41:54] What do you what do you what do you talk say to Dr. Smokehouse? I bought my make it a little bit more than a lot of things. They just want to know what to do with it. They don't they don't want advice.
+
+[42:06] They like their nochino. They just want to know what to do with it. Now that you know now that they've found Nochina, what what should they do with it? Yeah. You think you think we'll get back to it.
+
+[42:19] JPM wants it. Well, so why don't you say what you're pouring out? Oh, okay. So I brought look, I found out I was coming on the show after I was in New York. So I didn't get to bring anything from home, but I brought one of the cocktails we're doing tonight.
+
+[42:31] Um really plugging this event. Like, you hear this, near this people? That's the sound of somebody caring. Care a lot. I'm really I am uh degassing a carbonated bottle of cocktail.
+
+[42:42] Very slowly. I appreciate this. I appreciate this uh no end because when someone just goes shwam and like undoes the thing and like ruins all their work, it's like I get depressed. Well, it's my feelings. Every bartender at Thunderbolt has at least once like lost their handle on these tops and hit the ceiling, and we have to mop the ceiling, like you know, monthly because of that.
+
+[43:02] Uh but this is uh cocktail that's not on our menu, but we always do it during the holidays. It's uh like a champarado. So we use the nixta for that like masa flavor. Champerado, the if someone listening does not know what I'm talking about. Uh like the traditional Mexican hot cocoa beverage made with masa.
+
+[43:20] So it's cinnamon, it's bourbon, it's nixta, which is the Nixtamall liqueur. And lactose salt. Now we have a qu that that question's coming up next, actually. I think that's all the time. Yeah.
+
+[43:36] Oh god. Yeah, that's gonna be in there for good now. Yeah, see, see that's what I'm here for. Uh cheers. Cheers.
+
+[43:42] Cheers. So while you're tasting, I'm gonna ask the question, then I'll taste while you're answering the question. How about that? Mm-hmm. Okay.
+
+[43:48] Uh for Mike and the cooking issues team. Fun fact, I actually got the Patreon notification while I was sitting at the bar at Thunderbolt that you were gonna be on. Thank you. Uh incredible drinks and service always. So that's your guys.
+
+[44:00] Yeah. Yeah. Uh one thing that's always impressed me at Thunderbolt are the high balls across the board. Huh? We're talking about it now.
+
+[43:59] I know the service flow is super fast on using cans. By the way, your can setup is ridiculous. And we gotta talk more about this after this question comes up, right? Uh uh Do you see any carbonation loss in glass or in in glass or cans versus coming straight out of the carbo bottles? And then the second question is uh, how did you come to use lactose?
+
+[44:26] I'm guessing lactic acid, but it could be wrong here. You're wrong here. Uh different thing. We use lactic acid too, but different things. In a tropic uh tropic pop in a ton uh sense, uh wait, uh it makes a ton of sense uh in the good and bad bubbly because the cream soda vibes, but surprisingly delicious in the tropic pop.
+
+[44:41] So it's basically a question about uh uh lactose. Are there other acids? This is not an acid, but this is gonna be a long. So are there other acids other than the big ones that you know are in liquid intelligence? By the way, I'm redoing that whole section.
+
+[44:51] I just wrote 10,000 more words on that. Wow. Yeah, great uh that uh you were testing in high balls. So uh why don't you answer that while I taste your uh your uh your cocktail here? Okay, uh we can talk about carbonation loss first.
+
+[45:05] I think we'll I'll try to go in order of what he said. So um okay. Yes, there is uh inevitably a small amount of carbonation loss going from the carbo bottle to the can. However, it's much less carbonation loss than uh like trying to slowly degas these bottles and re fluff them with carbonation every time you serve one of the cocktails. And so uh uh I think a can is like the superior delivery vessel.
+
+[45:33] That's why we do it. Um it's fun. It's fun. Uh it's look, it's we've we were carbonating uh cocktails since we opened, but we were serving them in the in the traditional way of de gas the bottle, pour very slowly down the side of the glass, takes forever. Recarb it, put it away.
+
+[45:48] Your drink takes a few minutes. COVID happened. We were able to sell cocktails to go. We got the can seamer like week one. So we immediately moved to a can.
+
+[45:55] We got we got lucky. I have a lot of people to thank for that. Uh yeah, there was people in LA who like knew what we were doing and made that thing appear for us, and we ended up getting to keep it, which was amazing. So uh Jason Brandon and Joe Brooke, if you're listening, I love you guys. Um so we you know, we still are able to sell to go.
+
+[46:12] That's one of the reasons we still can, but we realize that the can is like a far superior vessel for serving this thing. One, because it's instant service. And again, we run into that thing where I have to be like, yes, it's in a can. We made it here three days. Yeah, we can't we it took us a couple days to carbonate it and then we canned it for you here.
+
+[46:27] And then once people hear that, they're like, oh whoa, and they get it. But you know, you gotta you gotta hold people's hands a little bit. Um how is it that you like like service and we have but there it's two people and people are so problematic. Yeah, it's it's the problem is like we have done so many things to get a drink in your hand faster and more consistent. But I think when you end up on some of these like lists, people come into your bar expecting uh like you know, the bow tie and the apron and the arm garters and and maybe an attitude and and maybe they want their drink to take 10 minutes, but our drinks are like really, really, really fast.
+
+[47:01] Um anyway, well, they should specify beforehand, you'll just wait. Yeah, we could just like we could ignore you for five or six minutes and then get you your drink. Like we could do that for you. If you would come in and ask for that, and we're happy to do that for you. Um wear a hey, people, if you do that, wear a special stop sign pin and they know then it thunderbolt.
+
+[47:21] Yeah, I think it's like Fogata Chow, where it's like the green and the red. You know, if you still want meat, you have the green. If you want us to ignore you, just put the red side up and we will pretend you don't exist. Right. Or but no, but you it needs to just take longer.
+
+[47:31] It needs to be a slow roll button. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I can open a can pretty slowly.
+
+[47:38] Yeah. Just really right up in the microphone. Um so okay, so that's why we can. Uh you mentioned glass bottles. Glass bottles are really hard.
+
+[47:45] Like uh they hold carbonation fine, but counter pressure bottling is an absolute nightmare. Like if you don't have a hundred thousand dollar counter pressure bottling rig, uh, then you have to use one of these like handheld teas, and it's like sort of a complicated choreography of purge air, gas on fill, and like you make a huge mess. And you used to do it. I could do we used to do it. I hated it.
+
+[48:05] It's a nightmare. And I could probably do 30 cans in the time it takes me to do three bottles. So the cans are hyper fast. We got good at the bottles, but I hated it. I hated it.
+
+[48:14] I could do 10 perfectly, and then on the 11th, I spray cocktail all over myself. I gotta start over. Um okay, and then lactose. Uh I do get I get this question a lot, and people are thinking lactic acid. Lactose is a sugar, lactic acid is an acid.
+
+[48:28] Lactic acid is tart, but it's not like uh citric or malic tart. We use it a lot, and I'm about to Dave go to like I'm gonna transition to liquid. Gotta go look like you are, and I I want to talk, we'll talk about that later. But um, we're still using powdered lactic acid. The Travipop is honestly on its like third recipe of the same cocktail.
+
+[48:44] We and we do this a lot, we're like constantly updating. It didn't have lactose when we started. It was also like a 6.25 ounce volume when we started. But when we moved to cans, we had to switch up the recipe, make it a little lower ABV and make it bigger to fit an eight-ounce can. Uh and so we at that point sort of revisited it and started from scratch, and we, because we were lowering the ABV, we had to do a few things.
+
+[49:06] One, I wanted more creamy texture, and so lactose gives you that. Lactose is also it's a non-fermentable sugar, it's not near as sweet as uh sucrose. So what it does is help lower my freezing point so that when I lowered the ABV to put it in an eight-ounce can, it wouldn't freeze in our refrigeration at 19 Fahrenheit. So lactose helps me get to that lower freezing point while adding the creamy texture. And it's the same thing for the uh good bad bubbly that you mentioned.
+
+[49:32] So we like lactose a lot. And we put it on the menu because some people are lactose intolerant. And we, you know, we are like almost a completely allergen-free place. And we started toying with glycerin a little bit. We use it in our non-alks a lot, but we started toying with like potentially glycerin could replace the lactose in the Tropicop.
+
+[49:49] Well, it's not gonna give you the anti-freeze. You'd have to switch to invert you have to switch to invert sugar. Yeah, it's not gonna help with the freezing. If you used invert sugar, because it's twice the freezing power. So like instead of sucrose, if you used invert, it'd be twice the freezing power.
+
+[50:01] But I have you uh I'm sure you have. Uh I started playing around I for I love glycerin. So my latest thing, and someone asked a question, I think it was uh Michael JK about my uh it's it well sorry. This is also interesting to me is like, you know, like uh because I as we're working on the book, the new stuff I'm working on, I'm trying to work on stuff that is as plug-and-play. I'm always like a plug and play person if I can be.
+
+[50:24] So I'm trying to make things that are like swappable around. And so one of the issues with glycerin is like what are you gonna add it to? Because you don't want to add it, it's hard to add alaminute unless you're doing batch cocktails. So if you're actually using it, sugaring, yeah, right. It's fine if you're carbonating, but if you're doing jigger stuff, so like I have the two things I use are are glimple, which is glycerin uh simple syrup, okay, and glassid, which is glycerin acid mix.
+
+[50:47] And I'm really loving the glassid, but Michael wants to know. I'll I'll Quinn, can you get it from me and I'll put it on the Patreon like soon? Yeah, so the thing about glass it is uh like I'm using it in Amaros constantly because of because you can't aluminute carbonate every Amaro you own. So you has to be Amaro plus seltzer, basically, and glassed. Uh right.
+
+[51:13] Yeah, yeah. But have you played with, because uh for some reason people, some people are still resistant to glycerin. And I by the way, I think that this uh the uh the texture you get with the low ABV with uh lactose is great, but you're using a large quantity of lactose. We're I can like reliably get about 15% to dissolve into water. Yeah.
+
+[51:32] Um, and then that is just serving as our dilution and that we have two lactose cocktails, and so yeah, it's about it's a 15% powdered lactose solution that we buy from a brewery that we buy beer from for like nothing. It costs very much. What percentage of the finished cocktail is that 15%? So uh in the Tropic Pop, there's like uh it's I'm air quoting like five ounces of dilution, but three of that is carbonated uh or sorry, is clarified pineapple and two ounces of that is a 15% lactose solution. So it's like four or five percent lactose in the end.
+
+[52:11] Yeah, so it's eight-ounce cocktail. So two ounces of an eight-ounce cocktail is fifteen percent lactose. Uh yeah, it's probably like less than five percent. Right. So, but but the point is is that you're getting an extra.
+
+[52:22] I want to here's what I want everyone to think about. And this was what I thought was the most fun when I was in LA with you, is just going over. So my original carbo specs are all very alcoholic. You know what I mean? Like, and so like I've dropped them all, they used to be like 13% or so, 13-14.
+
+[52:39] I've dropped them almost all to 11. You've dropped them below 10, and you need to have some mitigation in there once that alcohol level goes below about 10, and you don't want the sweetness, and when I say sweetness, the actual like apparent sweetness of like uh sucrose to be uh you need to jack it in order in order to have the body be there when you drop below 10. And so there is you have to figure out ways around it. The same with non-alcoholic cocktails, and so I, you know, my crutch is glycerin, but the lactose is another way to up your bricks, which is amazing, right? Um, and so it's it's serving that that function.
+
+[53:19] So you you you hit whatever ABV you want, and I thought it was great the way that you I was really like I thought it was amazing what you were doing there, like upping the solids content of the cocktail, which also helps in your freezer. I didn't even think about that. And yeah, because we we live at about 19 degrees in those Fahrenheit, right? So our it's it's one temperature range that needs to work for a 24% alcohol martini that we keep in there, but also needs to work for a 9.5% droppy pop. Yeah.
+
+[53:49] So it's cold, but we we bump up the bricks with things like lactose to so it doesn't freeze. We did some isomol tests, but we never put it on the menu because we were going to put some non-alks in our vending machine, and but we just never we never did it with isolate. How cold was the vending machine at uh minus it was four Manhattan's, so it was only at uh I have to do Celsius. It was at minus, I think six. Okay.
+
+[54:10] Yeah. Um yeah, that's like minus six, like twenty. Something like that. I don't know. Uh, but I don't know, I'm not sure.
+
+[54:17] But get this. You know what I've been playing with? Have you played with polydextrose yet? No. So I looked up what do they add to diet soda to give it the body back?
+
+[54:25] Because there's no solids in diet soda, polydextrose. It's not sweet. And you can make a 50 bricks, not 50 bricks. You can make a one to one polydextrose syrup, right? And it I still like glycerin better because you can use glycerin at much smaller rates.
+
+[54:44] But if you're pouring like three quarters of an ounce of poly into uh uh of polydextrose, and it doesn't change the flavor, and that's what they use to make diet soda. One of the things they use to make diet soda have the body of other sodas. So it's another bodying agent. So I think But it's not sweet at all. Nope.
+
+[54:59] Whoa. Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna see you tomorrow. We'll you can pull F around with it.
+
+[55:04] Yeah, yeah. Uh all right. Um, so uh we see. George Sante says, I've been trying to figure out a quicker way to clarify spirits blend with other ingredients, yeah, i.e. a slice of key lime pie or whole brown.
+
+[55:15] There's so much in brownies and key lime pie, George. There's so many things, dude. It's like you're all over like there's no one thing. Anyway, well, keeping it all vegan, including the brownies pie, etc. This is very complicated, George.
+
+[55:28] Uh I've gone the usual alternative milk punch routes. I even tried this new powdered coconut milk process. I haven't tried powdered coconut milk. I don't even uh but they take a lot of time and work. I've randomly uh seen a video where someone uses a Buchner funnel system.
+
+[55:42] Uh anyway, whatever. Mike, I don't know. This is more like up your alley because like, you know, I'm stuck in my old fart ways. Like what, like what how are you gonna clarify a key lime pie? Like, and the crust?
+
+[55:53] I don't know. I would get the flavor of the crust in another way, and then yeah, I don't see a reason you couldn't spin out key lime pie with treating it in a sense. Like if you have a spin thall, go ahead and do it. No, it's gonna be cloudy. And then you get the solids out, but it's gonna be cloudy.
+
+[56:07] I mean, milk punch is a good idea. I'm I'm not we do a lot of milk punch with coconut milk, but I've never used coconut milk powder because I like the liquid from coconut milk to be the dilution of the cocktails. What do you break it with acid? Oh, you have to buy the you have to buy the non-stabilized stuff. I mean, like the Thai brand coconut milk out of the can that we buy works great, and it has a ton of stabilizers, and it still breaks.
+
+[56:28] Still breaks? Yeah, no problem. We have one, we have a milk punch on the menu right now. One of our bartenders West is a our best-selling cocktail right now. It's called the Pastelito, and it's uh based on the guava cheese Danish from all the Mexican bakeries in LA.
+
+[56:40] And uh we break that with coconut milk. And the there's like uh, I mean, we're we're there's no citrus in a reason citric acid to break it, and not a lot, uh like somewhere in the realm of half an ounce per cocktail. Speaking of acids, we didn't answer the other part of the question. We're gonna run out of time. But listen, so I've been trying to think of other acid blends because I, you know, lime acid, especially with the succinic.
+
+[57:02] Succinic's good, right? You like the citizen. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[57:05] Yeah. Game changer. And the champagne acid, which I love in Omaros and other things like this. It's my that's my crutch for go for non-alks or for low, low alks. Chinarin, channar and glass it meant like all day, every day.
+
+[57:17] But I've been trying to figure out other acid blends, like uh, especially with phosphoric. I've been trying to figure out a good use for uh acid adjust phosphoric. I've tried carrot, like carrot cola, but I I've got stuff that's okay. We used to do an Amaro, called it a Maro Cola, and the I I can't remember the recipe. There were like four different Amari in it and phosphoric acid, and that was cool to try to do like uh it would came out like it's like Dr.
+
+[57:43] Peppery and like phosphate. It could find, yeah. I mean, it's like like Dr. Pepper is phosphoric and citric, so it's good in cocktails, and I think so is Pepsi. That's their thing.
+
+[57:51] Uh Starving Violist, Violist. Uh, I wonder if you explain what's up with sous-vide recipes that call for long oven cooked times after the cooking is done. For example, a Rishi Chef Steps recipe for faux porchetta calls uh cooking the uh belly souvie for 24 hours to set the texture, then popping it to a 400 degree oven for 30 minutes to render and brown the skin. The meat continues to cook in the oven, right? Aren't you gonna end up with something like traditional textures?
+
+[58:12] A sous vide just fancy par cooking at that stage, and the recipe engineered so that they hit their desired dunness with list oven time uh than doing it from scratch. For the record, I grew up vegetarian and first aid eat uh meat at the age of 29, and I tend to prefer fussy sous vide uh textures for meats rather than traditional ones. Um, so listen, yes, uh starving. Uh that's sous vide for insurance, right? Low temperature for insurance.
+
+[58:33] But like because 30 minutes i in an in a 400 degree oven is nowhere near long enough to cook uh a porchetta, right? So typically you would let it cool for a little while before you put it in the oven. So there's no danger of overcooking the the inside. You let the entire meat, you cook the center up to where you want, right? Then you let it cool for a while, right?
+
+[58:56] And then you blast it in the oven so there's no danger of overcooking. But yes, it's just separating the variables the variable of the inside of the meat uh and the variable of the skin. Separating them is always a good thing. But yes, it will give you more traditional texture. If you want it less traditional, you want it wall to wall.
+
+[59:11] I've tasted big pieces of meat that are wall to wall. You want some texture in that. Yeah. But if you don't, then just deep fry that sucker. Like pull it out, cool it for a while, deep fry it, get that skin to puff up.
+
+[59:23] Uh uh, Mike, while I have you here. Have you ever used uh uh citrus uh trifoliata, the like the weird sour oranges and no one? I've used them, but not in years. They grow in Phoenix on the side of the street. No.
+
+[59:34] And I have used them, but they're like bitter. So like they're worried. John's worried because they're bitter and like weird, but just embrace the bitter weird. Like, like don't you love uh bitter like bitter lemon orange orange is amazing. Yeah John just use it.
+
+[59:45] I've never had those. Yeah just don't don't don't uh don't get rid of the weird embrace the weird. Yeah. Mike, listen, pleasure to have you on. You're welcome anytime you're back in New York.
+
+[59:53] Uh someone go to uh Jack's uh hangout go to Thunderbolt LA if you want if you want to see and I like uh love your champarado thank you if you want to see somebody doing a really really good job uh and doing it their own way and uh being fresh go check out Thunderbolt LA in Los Angeles uh what's the neighborhood again? It's an Echo Park Filipino town. Nice beautiful cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arm, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan and Rockefeller Center, New York City, New Stand Studios, joined as usual with uh Joe Hazen actually, because we don't have John in the studio today. No, how you doing, man? Everything good? Yeah, everything's all right.
+
+[0:24] How the panels treating you there right? Uh, you know what's funny? I had to change I had to change the whole console out yesterday. The other one took uh beep boop Yeah, a lot of work. Oh, that sucks.
+
+[0:33] Oh my god. I'm sure you're I'm sure you're catheted to your particular ear sliders, man. Well, this console is particular because it's got a lot of different things that you just can't find on new modern consoles right now. So um I mean it's still a digital console, but it gives me a lot of flexibility. All right.
+
+[0:51] But we're back. All right, that's good. And uh we're here at a special time. So uh, and I don't have John here because he had to work at the restaurant. John is at Temperance Wine Bar.
+
+[1:00] Um and like what like Nastasi, I think's on a plane and Jack got himself poisoned. Is that right, Quinn? Are you the only person? Other way around. Uh other way around.
+
+[1:09] It's all the same thing being on a being on a plane, food poison. It's all the same. How are you doing, Quinn? I'm good. Good.
+
+[1:16] And uh for today's very special guest, we have Andre Houston Mack, but not spelled Houston like the town Houston. It's a very interesting spelling. You wanna do you want to tell me about that? Yeah, no, I could tell you about that. Um one of my uncles was named Houston.
+
+[1:30] I like that's how they spelled it. Nice. My mom is my favorite uncle, her favorite uncle, and that was it. I got the name. And you ended up in Texas, but you're not from Texas because you're military brat.
+
+[1:38] Correct. Military brat, born in Trent, New Jersey, spent the first 15 summers there in uh summarine in Trenton, if you will. And uh You're the only person on earth that's ever said that. Correct. Actually, I have to get credit.
+
+[1:49] My wife said that. But anyways. Um, yeah, and then we kind of lived all over the world. My first place we ever moved was Texas. My mom fell in love with Texas, and that's kind of been home for a little bit.
+
+[2:00] You ever go back to Trenton? What's Trenton about? What they have a motto, right? Uh, Trenton makes the world takes. That's it.
+
+[2:05] That's right. It's the bridge. Yeah, no, totally. I do go back every now and then to visit friends. What is Trenton?
+
+[2:10] It's the headquarters for uh Taylor Ham. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, we're gonna obviously talk uh more about uh ham in a minute.
+
+[2:19] Absolutely. Uh and for those that don't know uh your uh your work, uh graphic designer, uh wine maker, uh restaurant owner, uh writer, uh YouTube personality. I mean, I don't know where to start I don't know where to I just try to do be me, you know. The opportunities come, I just do it. So it's been fun.
+
+[2:40] Try to keep busy. Yeah, yeah. You know. And uh, if anyone happens to be listening, even though it's not our normal time, uh, on your own Patreon, call in your questions to 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507.
+
+[2:52] All right, so now's the time on the show when we just like anything last week that you guys did that was interesting, and you know, food, food or drink-wise, usually, but could be anything, like maybe you got lit on fire. I'm not saying you did. Um, last week I was in Madrid, Spain. Uh and I hadn't been back since I was a child, so it was great. Um I had these sardines on this black bread with butter.
+
+[3:15] Good. Just a simple thing, it just blew my mind. Like fresh sardines? Yeah, I can't stop. I can't stop thinking about it.
+
+[3:20] It was pretty amazing. You know, I'm sure I said this on air a million times, but like James Beard, weird, weird dude, if you read the writing, right? Did not like fresh sardines. I mean, but my feeling is that canned sardines are delicious, and fresh sardines are delicious. Fresh sardines one of my favorite fish, though.
+
+[3:36] Like so, like I think they're completely different. I don't think that you can say one is better than the other, or worse than the other doesn't make sense. It doesn't make, it's not the same. You would never be like, hey, I needed some fresh sardines, and then someone hands you a can, you're like, what? What?
+
+[3:44] It's not the same thing. You know what I mean? Uh I I don't know. I don't know. Like some people like fried chicken, some people like grilled chicken.
+
+[3:56] I mean, there, yeah, it was chicken. To me, those are more similar. Like to me, because they're both cooked. Okay, all right. Fair enough.
+
+[4:02] Fair enough. Okay. I don't know. But I'll tell you one thing. Uh, are you a boca coronas freak?
+
+[4:07] I am. Yeah. I am. I actually like salt anchovies. Yeah?
+
+[4:11] Yeah, I mean, I like the I like Boca Ronis. I like them. I like salty, I like tiny fish salt, like salt like hell. Yeah. But I know that I'm a weirdo.
+
+[4:19] I know that that's not right. Uh oh yeah, Quinn told me you're in Madrid Fusion. I didn't know that Madrid Fusion was still going. What's the so when I last time, the only time I went was in 1900. Sorry.
+
+[4:30] 2000 and uh I think it was four or five. Okay. And um everyone then had food poisoning as well. It was so funny. They all got food poison.
+
+[4:38] So Harold McGee was food poisoned, Thomas Keller was food poisoned. Really? Everyone food poisoned. And they still showed up on stage. And you ever seen like uh uh cooking demonstrations being given by people with food poison?
+
+[4:49] It's amazing. You gotta see it. It's great. All right, let's see if there's video on the floor. Because like the look on their faces, you know what I mean?
+
+[4:55] But like, you know, it was like uh it was a who's who of like, you know, because Spain at that time was on fire fire. You know what I mean? Like Danny Garcia was doing all kinds of he was doing a thing where it was almost like uh, you know, you know, uh pom souffle. He was doing fish souffle where he was like like taking whole fish and then like sewing up all the holes and then frying it and have the skin puff up. He was doing all sorts of loony stuff.
+
+[5:18] Yeah. The guy, I forget his name, he was doing that thing where he was heating up like a bed of nails and then smacking the meat onto the bed of nails. Like, yeah, I forget whose name it was, like, but like, you know, Charlie Trotter came and was doing like some hardcore Trotter business. Wow, that's insane. And like 0405?
+
+[5:35] Yeah. It was a crazy time to be involved in all this because uh no one was jaded yet. Correct. You know what I mean? I get you.
+
+[5:43] Yeah, I had just moved to New York. So we were just opening per se in 04. Yeah, they were telling about this, and I remember what Keller presented now. He did his uh he did compressed fruit in the vacuum machine. Yep.
+
+[5:54] Because, you know, it's real pretty, you know how he likes pretty stuff. Oh, yeah, we used to do the watermelon, compressed watermelon. It looks great. It does taste better too. I mean, because it's you know, uh texture makes better taste.
+
+[6:04] It was really tasty. So what's the vibe now? Um I haven't been, so this was my first time there. Um I didn't realize it was a kind of convention kind of thing, and I don't really do those, but it was great. I represented America.
+
+[6:15] I was basically giving somewhat of a State of the Union of American wine. And were you for it? I was for it. Yeah, I'm gonna vote for it, right? You know what I mean?
+
+[6:24] I I was I was happy to represent the United States. State of our graves is strong. Yeah, well, you know, to talk about like different issues and was trends and stuff like that, and it was great. And you know, Spain was interesting, you know. And for me, it was just kind of a you know, and and and I wasn't there that long.
+
+[6:39] It was very short trip. Um I ate, I think I went out one night and that was kind of it, and then I had to leave. But what'd you have? You have the baby pig? No, I didn't.
+
+[6:48] I only had that that sardine thing. Oh yeah, that was it, and that was kind of it. And um, I didn't realize people in Spain knew who I was, kind of so to speak. So it was great. It was you know, it was you know, it was 40 people in a line to take selfie, so it was you know, it was interesting.
+
+[7:02] Can you speak Spanish? No, I can't speak Spanish. So stupid. No, I I was you know, it's like, and I was like romanticizing in in high school to take French, but I lived in Texas, which was dumb. Right.
+
+[7:13] Um, but the guy who introduced me, he introduced me in Spanish. It was pretty amazing. He was hired. I'm gonna hire him. No, it's not I wonder who it was.
+
+[7:20] There used to be uh so back in 0405, he was he was an amazing dude. He was a his career included being like a cornet player, a nanny, uh uh a a sommelier, a cocktail maker, a line cook. Uh uh, he was a I knew him from WD, but he ended up uh his name is Tona Palomino, and he ended up moving to Chicago, but he used to be the translator extraordinaire because he was hyper fluent, hyper fluent in kitchen, like high-end kitchen talk in both Spanish and in uh English, and he's just really good at it. So, like back then, like any time someone came to New York, they're like, I want Tona. Got it.
+
+[8:00] Yeah, to do my different this year. I think it was some of the things were more like assignment disco. So you'd put on the headphones and there would be two translators in a glass case in the back, and they would speak to they would translate. So there was lots of translation going on, yeah, and vice versa. I think, you know, because I spoke in English.
+
+[8:19] So I actually get this. Uh it was the first job I had at the French Culinary Institute was to go to Madrid Fusion. So it must have been oh four. Anyway, it was the very first job I had, it was the first trip I was supposed to take for the company because I was their director of culinary technology. I was supposed to do all their learn all their you know tech crap, right?
+
+[8:36] And I'm going to the airport, and it's uh MLK Day is on the Monday, right? So there's nothing's open. I go and uh my passport expired because I hadn't left the country in so long. My passport expired, and I was like, Oh my god. And so I missed that plane, but it was like still possible.
+
+[8:53] So I call up and uh I called up like everyone I can call. So finally, like someone at the State Department picks up. Okay. And they're like, is it a matter of life or death? Now these are one of these moments where you have to make the right decision.
+
+[9:06] You know what I mean? I was like, yes, this is a matter of life and death, because if I don't get on that plane, I'm gonna lose my job. If I lose my job, my kids are gonna be homeless. You know what I mean? Like life or death.
+
+[9:20] And so I had to get on an airplane, fly to DC to the only state office that uh uh uh State Department office that was open on the holiday. Flew into Reagan Airport, got on the subway, ran, ran, got my picture taken, hot and sweaty. So that passport, I was like like like totally messed up. Got back on the plane and like directly ran to the airplane to take me to uh you know, out of New York back to Madrid's crazy. I was unbelievable that I made it, but I kept the job, which was good.
+
+[9:50] Imagine you imagine like that's why you didn't pay attention now. I get it. I get it. I totally get it. People check your passports a month before you fly, at least.
+
+[10:00] That's right, because sometimes they won't even let you in if they expire six months or something like that. Well, it depends where you're going to. Like it's some places it takes forever, and like it's a racket anyway. Like, if you want your passport in a reasonable amount of time in this country, you have to pay a lot of extra money, which seems weird. It seems once you're a citizen of this country, like we shouldn't be better or worse than each other based on our ability to pay for our documents, you know what I mean?
+
+[10:20] It should be a lot easier, too. Yeah, considering I think there's some weird number, like Amer only 40% of American, you know, 60% of Americans have their passport or something like that, or vice versa. It's like weird. Well, I don't know, like uh whether you ever hung out, but like the last time I was in like Detroit, I was talking about oh, you know, the kids going across the bridge to Canada so they could drink when they're 18, right? Don't say D.
+
+[10:40] Yeah. And they're like, well, they but now they have to use this enhanced ID to do it, and it turns out that even just that level of enhanced ID chops out like a whole chunk of folks who don't have because it's an I think it's an extra 60 bucks or something. Yeah, so let's just let people have the ID. You know, if you get it, I should get it. If that idiot gets it, we should get it.
+
+[10:59] You know what I mean? It's like this is American. Yeah. It's built on that. You already know that.
+
+[11:04] I yeah, yeah. We could talk about that forever. Yeah. So it's whatever it is, pay to play. Uh all right.
+
+[11:09] So how how do the uh how do the Spanish folk uh uh take to uh the American wants to do it? Yeah, I think they were it was great. Lots of clapping, lots of people waiting afterwards to talk to me, so it was great. I had a great time. It's really fun.
+
+[11:20] It was good. You know, uh my biggest regret uh because I missed the day. I I always try to build in like at least five hours where I can do non-food related crap. I like to go to markets, that's my but I like to like see like a museum or cultural blah blah blah. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[11:34] Uh and I didn't get to go to the Prado. Yeah, I didn't get to go either this time. It's got my one of my favorite paintings in it. Like I like Goya's like black paintings, his like crazy ones, like Saturn eating his son is like the most like visceral, Fd up, like dude afraid he's gonna be murdered by his children, so he's eating his own children, and it's like a decapitated man in his hands. I think I know that one.
+
+[11:58] Yeah, it's just super dark. In the in the in the early 90s, I tried to get uh you know, early, early, like 1990, I tried to get a poster version of it uh from my dorm room, like in 1990, and they're like, we don't make a poster of this, nobody wants this on their wall. I'm like, this guy. Me. Yeah, I wanted.
+
+[12:17] Um hey, Quinn, you always have something uh going on. What do you have going on? Oh, I got something going on. I made some delicious uh herb oil in the spinzel 2.0. Oh, the spinz all culinary centrifuge, Quinn?
+
+[12:33] Yeah. Oh, nice. Nice. Sell it, sell it. Uh, and by the way, I think there are still are some that people can buy if they uh I think we're gonna have what, like a hundred left over some crap?
+
+[12:42] Yeah, if you go to the the Booker and Dex Instagram right now, the link in the bio is a wait list, but then we might have a official uh pre-order window coming soon. All right, Quinn. Now let's hear all the crap you put into your herb oil, and then we'll see what we think. Like what was it? What was the base?
+
+[13:07] Okay. Why peanut? I had peanut oil. Well, you're cutting in and out, man. You've turned into a robot on me.
+
+[13:15] Uh yeah. I had peanut oil. That's the secret. Okay. All right.
+
+[13:20] But then what else do you put into it? Oh cooked uh scallions, law onion, and some ginger until almost all the moisture is gone. So reduced 250 grams of aromatics to about 90 after cooking. And then you said two nine you said 290 to 90, right? So like roughly a little over three times.
+
+[13:47] Oh, okay. Yeah. So alright, go ahead. And then and then another 220 of flowering chives. Okay.
+
+[13:59] All right. And what do you think the uh so obviously the flowering chives then you kept like in their raw state to give some freshness to it? Is that the the gist I'm getting out of you? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[14:07] And so we've got you know, two screen elements, and then like first. Yeah. All right. So uh I'm gonna give your internet a chance, recover, get some bits back, uh lower time. But like uh the so what do you think the difference was making it uh other than the high yield you can get using a centrifuge, or uh, you know, the like uh the fact that there's no water in it, do you think there's any advantages to doing it in the fusion just because you happen to have one because you work with us?
+
+[14:35] I mean I think the advantage one at the time because then it takes maybe uh random time very slow, just to be safe. Oh man. But you know, it's probably a third or 40 minute process all in. Which was again still mostly passive. Whereas, you know, if you're filtering, you know, eight eight hundred grams of oil and aromatics, it's gonna be overnight.
+
+[15:04] Who has that kind of time? Hey, listen, Quinn, why don't you reboot your internet and then we'll get you uh we'll get you back on once. I think I'm back now, actually. I don't know, man. You sound ch you know, clippity clappity.
+
+[15:15] Sound we'll we'll we'll reboot that crap and get back to it. So you get ready to hop on the waiting list here. That's what I'm about to do. Yeah, so I uh nice. So I I made something so like, you know, uh I uh uh still still working on even though it was actually due back in October, and pretty soon my editor's gonna call me up and just like be like, You missed it, it's over.
+
+[15:33] But like I'm supposed to do the redo of my uh liquid intelligence, which is my cocktail book. And so, like, you know, uh I in the first edition of the book, I uh I I put all syrups kind of some syrups are in with the recipes, right? But I put like most of them together, like orjaws and stuff at the beginning. But I've done so much work with like uh acids and syrups over the past 10 years, I'm giving it a whole new chapter. So I'm doing something on Oleo.
+
+[15:58] So I was like, oh, what's something that'd be fun to make an oleo? Something that's only uh only um rind, right? So I I went uh you know, I went and I I passed by a Buddhist hand. Whenever you pass a Buddhist hand, you're like, oh, Buddhist hand, you know what I mean? And so the cool thing about Buddhist hand, right, is that the pith isn't bitter at all.
+
+[16:13] So you can just slice the whole Buddhist hand. Right. You can make an oleo, but there's still so much flavor. Because I think a lot of times when you infuse a Buddhist hand, you actually end up throwing away a lot of flavor because like you don't end up eating the fruit, right? Okay.
+
+[16:24] So I made an oleo, then after the oleo, I use the peel again to make a lemon Buddha's hand cordial, right? As instead of lemon peel, I used it, right? And then uh the nice thing about that is is that now also the Buddhist hand has some acidity, which is the one thing the Buddha's hand lacks. And then when you strain all of that, it still has flavor and can be used as a candy or garnish. Taste that crap.
+
+[16:46] But here's the problem, here's why I brought it today. I cannot figure out how to describe the smell, and I need someone who's good at describing smells because to me it smells like Buddha's hand and like nothing else. And I can't think of what it smells like other than Buddhist hand. You know, like obviously citrus and like but you know what I mean? It's like smells like Buddhist hand.
+
+[17:05] Well, it smells like Ricola. Oh, yeah. Do you want to taste a piece or delicious? Uh that's what it smells smells like Ricola. Now I have that song going through my head.
+
+[17:15] Ricola. Yeah. And I made this lat like made it just at the beginning, like almost a week ago. I still taste fresh. I love Buddhist hand.
+
+[17:23] You want some, Joe? No. So you pass your deadline. I got a deadline too. Oh, yeah, what do you want?
+
+[17:29] Don't hurt me. Yeah, I just I just signed a I'm working on the second book. Oh, yeah. Well, I wait. You already have two books.
+
+[17:34] You're not ca which one are you not counting? The coloring book? Yeah, so that's funny. The coloring book is is the first book. Yeah.
+
+[17:39] Uh so like I did a coloring book, I self-published it. Um that was a really fun project. Um and then um I took on another project of writing another book called 99 bottles, which was somewhat of a memoir slash um slash wine book. Uh so the idea was to tell my wine life story through 99 bottles. Yeah, and it starts, it's like almost cron I mean not all chronological.
+
+[18:01] Correct. Yeah, so it's like I think the first entry is uh old English 800. Uh I was gonna ask you about, you know, uh eight ball, you can't start start out with Tiger Yeah, no, that was it, man. And and it was so funny. So that you know, that to uh the to think of that, that's where I came from, and all the way to like French laundry and then moving to New York to work at per se.
+
+[18:20] Uh and I think in that chapter I talk a lot about how the night before inventory I would drink a 40 ounce. Uh which is unpleasant. Yeah, it totally is. And hard to find, apparently in Manhattan. You can't buy 40s in Manhattan?
+
+[18:33] It was really hard to find. They used to sell this crap when I was in grad school, uh, up near my studio that was much cheaper than old English. Yeah. It was it was called laser, laser uh malt liquor, and it was like fifty cents for the super talls. So they weren't forties, but they were like like 20 ounce cans or something, or twenty and th it was I don't it was not potable.
+
+[18:58] You know what I mean? Like Yeah, most of it isn't, you know, then it was kind of that thing of like, oh it's acquired taste, but like it was that thing of like, you know, I I'm a product of hip hop. You know, I grew up on it. You know, hip hop turned 50, I'm 50, right? And so, you know, it was aspirational music music, right?
+
+[19:12] So it told you what to drink. Yeah. So this is what what you drank, but it was like, wow, it tasted like, you know, ice cube pissed on charcoal. You know, that was that's what you said. Well, I mean, like the thing is is that like uh, you know, uh that that drink wasn't on my radar until NWA came out.
+
+[19:30] Correct. You know what I mean? Like uh, cause like uh, you know, I knew like Colt 45 and all that stuff because it's loaded with dynamite taste. Yeah. Grab one, down one, get yourself around one.
+
+[19:39] You know what I mean? Malt liquor and like the. It's a dynamite taste. You know, that that old song where like the Colt 45 is exploding out of the mountains like a big weird sex explosion. It was right before the Billy D.
+
+[19:52] Williams ads came up. Yeah. You ever looked at the history of Colt 45 ads? I haven't. I haven't.
+
+[19:57] The very original Colt 45 ads were uh like uh a white dude actually on a beach, and uh he's on a beach and there's like a table, like a nice like a bistro table with like a with like a and like all this crazy crap is happening around him, like just crazy, like insanity. Okay, and he's just like he's just like nothing, right? Just like dead face dead. And like all of a sudden, like a person like like surfs up with a Colt 45 on like a waiter's tray, and it and like the person pours in the Colt 45 like it's like some good drink. And he's like savoring the drink.
+
+[20:32] So it's all about that. Then it went to the you know, the you know, dynamite taste, and then you know, Billy D. Of course, everyone knows Billy D William, yeah. I mean, you gotta love those ads growing up if you're it's if you're like I'm similar, I'm a little bit older, but like you know what I mean. It's no, no, I love those ads.
+
+[20:46] And and actually most of my Instagram feed are those nostalgia ads, like you know, so McDonald's, like all that the McNugget buddies and like that kind of stuff, you know. So it's it's always interesting to look at the past, especially from a graphic design perspective too, right? So like looking at like old stuff and stuff like that is always fascinating. Yeah. And uh I noticed that you went like immediately went high-end after the old English and you went to Boone's W uh Boone's Farms.
+
+[21:10] That that was it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Boone's Farms, yeah, man. Um, yeah, those are the days of like in you when you were moving away from malt liquor, and then also like dating, like you know, that was a certain type of woman who drank malt liquor, and then a certain type who drunk it out of a bottle, right? So that was a certain type, and then so if you're mingling and having a party, then you had to have this other stuff, and that was different.
+
+[21:29] But you know, I mean, you went through all those stages. Thunderbird, oh my god, right. Thunderbird wasn't great, but so what you did is you grabbed your whatever flavor of Kool-Aid you had, put in it, right? So it was like all of those things. Do you remember Cisco?
+
+[21:40] I remember Cisco. Oh my god. Cisco would mess you up, though. That's but you know, that stuff tastes like poison. Like even at the time, you know, like it's like I'm dying, and as you drink it.
+
+[21:48] I was like, this is bad. They're like, it's bad, but it's quick. You know what I mean? Yeah, it was just knock you out. But yeah, Cisco was popular then.
+
+[21:56] So it was like all of those things, and those are kind of like my drinking culture. And then I later talk about how it was all from popular culture, sort of like watching movies, right? And so you're like, oh wow, like uh I think to keep the sunrise was a movie, but I think that's a drink. Bartender, I'll have one of those. That that was kind of my history.
+
+[22:12] Well, you said you were calling your first Scotch call was Cuddy Sark, and you would call it Cuddy Shark. Yeah, someone's like Yeah, it was a part, it was the it was someone I had worked with, and he he fell out of his chair laughing. He goes, Did you say shark? I said, Yeah, and he's like, It's Sark, like the ship. I was like, Okay, sorry.
+
+[22:29] Ship. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had no idea. And you know, he's like, It's the ship on the bottle here. You're like, okay.
+
+[22:35] But it was from watching Goodfellas, and uh, maybe actually I think in the closed caption it says shark, not shark. I gotta check that. Like the I'm gonna put my assistance on that. There's only so much money. There's only so much money in captioning.
+
+[22:48] So, like they often they get that stuff wrong, especially when it's like, you know, when it's probably better as shark anyway. Wouldn't you rather have Cuddy Shark? I do, I would. I I found it so cool. I felt really great ordering it, and then just was deflated, you know.
+
+[23:00] Yeah. A lot of sad things in the book too. You were you were pouring some uh nice cabernet when you found out that you're uh the the dad who raised you as way output it since you uh died, and uh and like really deep, like you would had a riff with your mom. It's like not usual stuff to be like that open about it. Yeah, but but to me it was you know, it was those things that like is like you let it out, and and every now and then when I go back and read it, or when people bring it up, you're like, wow, I did like leave a lot, right?
+
+[23:27] And um, for me it was it was just it. It was really like these bottles of wine, and what I think about when I see these bottles of wine, it takes me right back to those moments. And was that silver oak, right? Yeah, so it was silver oak, and it was an empty bottle of silver oak, and I was through refilled it with water because I was just I was a waiter trying to be a somewhere. So I would refill it with water, and then I set up my dining room table, like a table, and I would be pouring, and I was practicing pouring wine.
+
+[23:52] So it was like, you know, pouring over here, pouring left-handed, pouring my backhand around the corner, like all of those things, and then like my door, there's a knock at my door, and I look through the peephole, and it's my mother standing there, and I'm like, how did you even know where I lived at? And it was just that was it, you know. And so I I wanted the book to be personal. Like I f I felt at the time that all the definitive wine books have already been written. And what was that at the time?
+
+[24:17] Israeli? No, but I mean like all of them, like Jances Robinson, Hughes. Oh, like the bigger the big big big big things in there, just like on how to wines. And I just felt like, how can I like the reason why people people buy anything is the story. And for me, it's like, hey, you could read about how I got to this place and along the way learn a lot about wine just natively, right?
+
+[24:40] Just by reading the articles, and we put the sideboards on just for it to make it look like a fake wine guide, but like still informational. And so, but I just thought by like just sharing these were like real stories that were raw. And you know, I didn't mind I didn't mind sharing those. Yeah, it comes as like a series, like it's like uh it presented as a series of playing cards. You ever actually make the playing cards?
+
+[25:00] No, we hadn't yet. We hadn't. And so it so the book came out in October 2019. And then, you know, and so that was like right around the holidays, though something weird about it, and then COVID. Yeah, fing COVID, man.
+
+[25:11] And then that was it. And so we never really got a chance to do it at you should do it like at your one of your places now, not maybe the same ones, but just like whatever. What were we gonna do? We we were gonna make them NFTs, right? Oh god.
+
+[25:22] Which is which is so funny to me. But but the idea of making them will will happen at some point. And we're coming up on the fifth year anniversary, if I did the math right, right? So the fifth, yeah, the fifth year anniversary of the book. Yeah, and uh they're not all wines, like uh you uh went to a Senegalese place and had uh the uh the Bisap, and you're like, I want some sorrel.
+
+[25:41] Uh yeah, this is like you know. Yeah, no, yeah. So there, you know, it's beverages, it's not all wine. You know, there's some spirits. Um actually there's San Pellegrino, which is on this table, uh, and that's in the chapter where I where I realized that I wanted to quit.
+
+[25:54] I I quit working at Per se because of sparkling water. That was the straw. I didn't read that one, Doug. You gotta tell me because like I was gonna ask you. So, like for those of you that I don't know, don't know anything about whatever.
+
+[26:04] So, like at the time, Thomas Keller was like the best known chef in the country, like by a long in terms of like high-end cooking, correct by a long, long margin. Uh and you know, famously, if you read the old old stuff, had kind of been run out of New York on a rail this first time around. Uh opens up uh French laundry where you were the you were the you were the I was one of no, I was one of the Samoy. Yeah, which by the way, what a crazy job to have. It's insane.
+
+[26:29] It's what a nutty job. It was it was it was it was kind of like being in a cult and like you were like in like sleepaway camp. Yeah. Well, that's what I was gonna ask, because it's one of the famous Kool-Aid kitchens in terms of like you have to drink that Kool-Aid. Correct.
+
+[26:46] You know? Correct. And and and the crazy part is like you didn't, it was self-policing, right? It wasn't the manager that came around and said, Hey, we don't do that. It was the the guy next to you, your peer, who checked you.
+
+[26:58] And most people didn't get fired, they quit. Like it was just too much. They would, you know, a new person would come in and within two weeks, they would know whether or not they could handle it. Yeah, like uh we had some like one of our favorite like interns at the French culinary interns, people who were you know, students, and then they work with us, but he was already like an amazing cook. And after he left, we're like, you know, where are you going?
+
+[27:21] He's like, We're going to per se. I'm like, why? What's wrong with you? You know what I mean? Like, the dude, his name is Long.
+
+[27:27] I don't know if you know him, but anyway, he's he's uh well-known chef in Taiwan now. Oh, okay. And uh he uh I was like, you already punish yourself so much. You you don't need external punishment to be better because you already do it to yourself. You know what I mean?
+
+[27:41] Well, I mean, I think I think for me, I remember having the interview with Thomas Keller uh to work at the French laundry. So we're sitting uh in this courtyard on a picnic table, and he was like, Hey, you know, it's like I've been hearing great things about San Antonio, and I started laughing. I'm thinking to myself, stop blowing smoke up my ass. You know what I mean? Like what what happened?
+
+[27:56] The man loves puffy tacos, maybe. Yeah, that could be true. And so um he said, So why do you want to work here? And I just remember my answer. It's like, because I need discipline.
+
+[28:06] And I think for a lot of people, maybe before your friend Long, it's like you have to you have to know, right? It's like I was the only person, you know, a handful of people that cared about where I worked at in my previous job. And I wanted to be better. And I felt like I needed to go there. And I was like, I need discipline.
+
+[28:22] I need, I I need somebody to push me on those days that I can't push myself. And I I want to know what that's like, and I want to know if I have that drive. And he, you know, he just looked at me, he's like, discipline, we can give you that. And I was like, okay. And um, and so that was it.
+
+[28:37] I moved from San Antonio, Texas to um to the French laundry. And uh, you know, I was hired to work at the French laundry, and so we're kind of going along, and 10-year anniversary is coming up. Um, but the buzz in the news is, you know, he's coming back to New York. And I was like, whatever. Like, and and more and more as we got closer and closer, the hype started to build, and I was just like, I was like, Andre, you can't sit on the sidelines on this one.
+
+[29:01] This seems like it's too big of a deal. It's a homecoming of sorts for him. You know, it was touted as one of the most anticipated restaurant openings for New York City, uh, Time Warner Center. And I was just like, and I remember I decided on my birthday, which is Christmas on 2003, right? That I I wanted to go.
+
+[29:20] I remember, you know, at the holiday party with my boss and Dean, like, I think I want to go to New York. And he's like, Okay, all right, we can make that happen. And so I moved to New York City on sight unseen to give it a shot. I mean, like uh that opening was crazy. No one knew no one knew how that was gonna go because it was the it was the I think the first thing it was they were just building the Time Warner Center, so it's not like there was a track record there.
+
+[29:46] Um, you know, obviously, you know, he's super famous at the time, and everyone loved, you know, everyone wanted that, everyone wanted that reservation. Uh again, I don't think people who weren't seriously in in the eating world at the time can you can't you can't overstate kind of what a phenomenon it was. Even like book wise, when the French laundry cookbook came out, oh yeah, uh I had to write uh some stuff on it for uh food arts back you know way back in the day. It was one it was one of the very early and very early American chef books where you weren't intended to cook out of it. Where it was like we're gonna tell you the real stuff going back to anchovies soaking the anchovies and milk all that all that stuff.
+
+[30:28] It was kind of the first of its kind that sold well even though no one could cook at no normal folk no normal people could. Yeah. No, it was you know it was a moment in time and I just felt like this is the opportunity. I was like, you know what like I should go and I just I just left and came and and I guess the rest is kind of history. It was a it was an interesting time in New York you know as I've you know I'm coming up on my 20 oh I am my 20 year anniversary this is the longest place I've lived anywhere is New York City.
+
+[30:56] And just now just reflecting and looking back on like how the landscape has changed a lot um you know from them like losing two stars like you know from all of that kind of thing that happening there and then like um I touched the button there. No no it's not that it's like I I the star system the way it works now I think it's ridiculous. The whole thing just it just it irks me on even thinking about it makes me upset. No I get it I get it. You know and it's and and at the time I think it probably meant more then than it does now.
+
+[31:23] Yeah. But it was it was just a a an interesting time and place and it you know gave you know gave me the platform and the I guess the energy and the and the confidence to say that, you know, I and I left that job, right? Most people don't give up a job like that at the time. Yeah so what caused it with the Pellegrino? Hook me up.
+
+[31:39] Well, so we we um, you know, uh Thomas Keller used it, uh Tanat uh water and uh Hilden water. So they were two English waters that he liked to use, and so they're not really available. So we had to have somebody here in New York, some like weird company give him. And then we had like a a third water, which we used to call it was called Vottviller, and it was from Alsace, and it was in a squat little bottle, and we used to call it H3O. It was really, it was really hard water.
+
+[32:04] But it was it was great and had the consistent, you know, the contrast of the three waters, but it was hard to keep in stock. And so we would ordering 25 case drops per water, but then we would run out and then we'd be stuck, and so we couldn't run out. And so then we would have 75 cases of 50 cases of each water as a reserve and then keep ordering and then Where'd you keep it in Jersey? No, so we had we kept it like in, you know, on the like second floor of something other time, wonder building, but it was just um it was just a pain in the ass. And like finally, you know, I got the program, you know, after like three years in a place that I felt comfortable that I could just like take a weekend off.
+
+[32:41] And so I go off on the weekend trip, and I just remember it's Sunday and I'm in the security line, and one of the Samoyers calls me, and you know, he went and bought San Pellegrino because that's what we had done in the past when we ran out, and then the director of operations ran him in and to him, and it was a whole argument. It was a whole bunch of shit. And I was just like, you know what? I think I think I think I'm done. I think I I I really think I'm done.
+
+[33:06] And I had reached that point, and I remember saying, Hey, you know, I had always this agreement with my boss. He's like, You give me 90 days, the restaurant requires 30. You give me 90. So I gave him my 90, but apparently I guess he told them and it was turned into 30. And it was a weird position for me because at the time my girlfriend, who's now my wife, was writing a book about working there.
+
+[33:26] So we met there, and she was writing a book that was unauthorized. Yeah, so to speak. And um, and it was, you know, and it didn't help that Harper Collins was marketing that sex in the city meets kitchen confidential. And, you know, as a business owner now, I would totally be weirded out or freaked out if one of my employees wanted to write a book, but it was a love letter and it aged pretty well. But that aside, it was a little strange.
+
+[33:48] And you know, I just said, you know what, it's like I'm ready to move on and do something else. And, you know, it it was like I want to continue to learn about wine, and I felt like the best way to do that was to make my own. If I could make my own, then I could scratch several other itches. I wanted to be an entrepreneur, I wanted to have creativity in my life, you know, that kind of stuff. So, question.
+
+[34:05] So, like, you know, like when I'm reading, you know, or you know, you know, reading the book or you know, looking at the videos, like you're very kind of uh like opening, uh open, welcoming, like you want to bring people in, like um kind of anti pretension. But then on the other hand, freaking French laundry. I don't think any I'm gonna be hard to over again state how buttoned up like French laundry. Oh, I used to get in trouble all the time, brother. All the time, all the time.
+
+[34:34] It was like just you know, it's all of it just and so I came from a mom and pop place, which is the French laundry. Like even at the time it was it was it was the top restaurant, best restaurant in the world, but it was still mom and whatever that means. Yeah, yeah, totally. Um yeah. I was gonna say something to be an S, but I'm not.
+
+[34:54] But anyways, uh, and so it was just that thing. And then you moved to New York, and I felt New York, New Yorkers, you know, our colleagues, our New York colleagues, they were the ones that were putting the pretense on. And I was just like, it's like, hold on. So like I couldn't, you know, I used to wear these Prada's, you know, Chelsea boots, and they were like, you have to wear lace ups. And I was like, pfft, whatever.
+
+[35:15] And I was just always ignoring. I was like, what's the difference? This is so dumb. Like we never had that rule or whatever. And then finally they cornered me, and it was like this whole thing.
+
+[35:23] And then they made me go down to Kohan in the mall. Ah, geez Louise. And um and buy a different pair of shoes. I mean, it was great. I bought these beautiful split toe lace up shoes.
+
+[35:33] Yeah. And I just took the shoestrings out of them and showed up at the for the media, and they were like so. I got in trouble a lot. You know, I pushed the boundaries, and but it was like it was supposed to, to me, it was fun. You know, and it's like, you know, I was banging up against all four walls, trying to figure, you know, like a child, like pushing the boundaries of where we could go.
+
+[35:51] Um, but you know, granted, they had their way of doing it, and you know, it was really stern. And I think, you know, I think I learned a lot. It took sh three months, three and a half months to decompress from working there. I I don't doubt it. You know what I mean?
+
+[36:03] They just wound up. You know, it was like a year or two afterwards, not not your place, but like I think one of the there was like uh, you know how like everything in life in any industry, but this is the one I know, right? Seems to be like waves. They come in, they roll out, they come in, they roll out. And like kind of the high mark of kind of lunacy was when Ducasse opened Essex House.
+
+[36:23] Oh, I remember. And there was the pen service, and finally someone was like, No. Which is funny because we had Mount Vaughn pens, and the that's so they didn't guests didn't get to choose, but we had them, and the servers were responsible, captains responsible. And if you lost them, you know, they were expensive 200 bucks. But I do remember that it was that and the little stool for your bag or purse.
+
+[36:45] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right at the cost, right? So I remember that. And um, and so all of this is going on, and it and it's interesting for me as like my development, and then and then this place, Mama Fuko noodle bar pops up, and you know, it's the hot thing, and I start going over there, and it was just it it changed my perception of everything in a way that like I worked at this fine dining high-end place, but it was like, but those people there came from the same, felt like they came from the same place. They worked in the same place as me, but they were doing something that was fun, and they were cooking the the food with the techniques that they've learned from high-end places or from school, but they were wearing jeans and wearing rock band t-shirts and blasting Pink Floyd and wearing shell top sedidas, and and it just what I realized is like the that it was changing.
+
+[37:35] Right. Similar level of internal pressure though. Yeah. I mean, like Chang's kitchens were hardcore in terms of, you know, again, if you know, I had numerous people, you know, I ended up being partners with him, but like uh in numerous people I sent there, yeah. It's just like, you know, it was not a place you could go just No, absolutely.
+
+[37:55] So what I so yeah, it still had the structure and the nucleus of the kitchen and the way those things work from how he was taught, but it it it displayed something differently on the dining room in the and that in that place of like just the atmosphere was just different. It wasn't uptight, you know. Maybe the kitchen was, but the dining experience wasn't. And it was coming to that restaurant multiple times that made me realize I was like, there's 30 chefs in the kitchen at per se, all leaned over plates. Um, you know, most of them aspire to be restaurateurs and owners of their own place.
+
+[38:30] Only a handful of them would be crazy enough to think they could do something like the restaurant we currently work in. But I thought a lot of those guys were gonna go off on their own, go back to where they came from and do exactly what what we were all witnessing on 12th Street or wherever that was, right? Where it was like, oh, I worked for these great places, but I'm gonna apply those techniques to like really cool stuff. And I was like, and I want to make wine for those restaurants. And that was kind of the impetus of just saying, okay, and taking the playfulness of all of that.
+
+[39:00] And you know, and like Thomas Keller, when I say the chef had a s has a sense of humor, it wasn't like he was back there on the past, like slapping his knee and cracking jokes, but it played out in his menu, as you know, the quotations, you know, there was stuff tongue in cheek, which are tongue-in-jeek. So there was humor in in all of it, and I and for me, I felt humor always kind of took out the pretense, you know. And so I that's why I I chose humor in a lot of ways and the things that you know that we came up with names, stuff like that, to be playful. My whole attitude is to be playful, right? It's like that thing, you know.
+
+[39:34] It's like I used to wear this Dr. Seuss watch on the floor, which I got in trouble for. But it was kind of like my Patch Adams kind of thing, right? Instead of putting on a red nose. You know, I I think one of the first times I I I approached the table at the French laundry, and I walked up to it was a couple, I walked up to the gentleman, I said, Hey, are you ready to talk wine?
+
+[39:53] And he said, We're gonna let you choose, but he's handing the wine list back to me, and he is shaking, not a little bit, a lot. He just doesn't want to look bad in front of this crew, yeah. But he's just so nervous. He doesn't know and he, you know, and he thinks I'm gonna like reach in his pocketbook and take all his money. And and that was, and that was kind of what I got.
+
+[40:10] It was like they were happy to see the server, but when the sommelier came for some people, they're like, This is a guy's trying to take my money. And I was like, it's like, I can't talk anybody who wants a $300 bottle of wine into a three thousand dollar bottle of wine or something like that. You know, so it was like this interesting thing. And for me, it was always like it felt like we were the bad guys, and so that's why I wore the this Dr. Zeus watch.
+
+[40:29] It's like, hey, I'm I'm human here. We're good. Well, a couple of things. One is a question. So when people are going out and they're asking for there's always that, there's always you that thing where you feel nervous that someone is gonna suggest a crazy bottle, and then you're gonna feel embarrassed because you're gonna be like, I don't have the money and buy that.
+
+[40:50] So how do you like as a consumer guard against that? Correct. So you just beat him to the punch. So he comes over in the wine list, and you say, even if you don't know a selection, you say, Hey, we would love for you to pick these are some of the things that we normally drink, and then you just slide your hand over to where a price point that feels comfortable to you and say, We'd like to stay around here. Yeah, and nobody has to see it at your table, nothing like that, and you give them the menu back and let them do their job.
+
+[41:14] I'm too stupid. I'm just like, please don't go crazy. Yeah, that's that's another way to that's another way to do it, right? And and when you work at a person like place like per se, there's levels to craziness, right? Right, right.
+
+[41:24] So that was it. But I think you know, people, you know, if you just say what your budget is without saying it, giving some type of you know, clues by pointing, then you could somewhat be safe. Yeah, yeah. No more than double my bill, which could be crazy, you know, when we had people spend thirty thousand dollars online at one table, two people, yeah. And so, you know, it was money, people need to spend it.
+
+[41:47] Yeah, it was it was an interesting thing, and I think you hit the wall where you talk about for me, it was like, how did something that became something that's a necessity, like eating, become so circus-like and ceremonial in a way, and then some you know, sometimes it would make me sick to my stomach. And you know, it's just like my love-hate relationship with New York, you know. You know, it's like I gotta leave when I start yelling at an old lady because she won't let me off the train first. Right. Then I go to Colorado, I'm in Colorado, I come down, I'm like, I was like, hey, I'm I want a flat white.
+
+[42:15] And so you know, the barista says, How's your day? I said, How about you make my coffee first before you ask me how my day is? Now I'm the New York asshole. Now I've moved back to New York, I'm ready to go back. But uh speaking of like $30,000 bottle of wine, it's crazy.
+
+[42:28] Like I remember I was uh at Jean George once. I was, you know, helping someone out, I wasn't eating. And um, although I do like eating there. Uh I just ran into him, yeah. Oh, yeah.
+
+[42:38] So uh he someone had bought some obscene bottle of wine and then they didn't even finish it. And so like they were pouring it out just for the crew. I was like, man, so it's weird, right? Because yeah, well, you can't drink it all. So it's like the the whole idea of like, so for two people who spent $30,000 in wine, or yeah, 30,000, yeah.
+
+[42:57] It was, you know, it was multiple bottles. And so they don't drink them all. They haven't with this course. And it's like, great, okay, all right, we'll move on to something else. Yeah.
+
+[43:04] Yeah. Okay. Must be nice to be the king. Must be nice, as they say. Uh yeah.
+
+[43:09] So uh going back to what you're saying about being uh playful though and being funny, yeah. There's playful, funny, mean, and there's playful, funny, not mean. And what I gather is is that you like the not mean. So like I'll give you an example that I thought was hilarious. Someone you you did a thing, I saw a clip, it was called like wine, wine, uh like not IT, but like wine, tea, wine, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[43:30] And uh someone was like, Why does Rose exist? And you didn't you didn't even answer that because he he was being a dick, right? You know what I mean? And you're and you just said how it was made. So you just like ignored the douche and like answered it and there's too much savagery in the world.
+
+[43:46] Like, you know, it's like like the the comments are are swamp land, swamp pools of like cesspools of just people, you know, and it's just like, why waste your breath on something negative? And and that's kind of been my approach. It's like, I don't want to talk crap about this, let's not even drink it. Right. And so let's focus on that.
+
+[43:59] Like, I don't, I like it's just something I didn't want to do. And I was really adamant when I spoke to the BA people when they approached me. It was just like, I don't want to do that. And and I get like, you know, what makes great television, you know, you want me to drink box, you know, crappy box wine or whatever to get a rise out of me. And it's just like, let's just not even give that.
+
+[44:25] Like, let's talk about real people who are doing real things and give them the spotlight instead of no Francia doesn't need any help. And I and I get that, like, and what and what the audience is, it seems like you know, it's like the Roman gladiator days where it's like, you know, the audience is so bloodthirsty that they they're all for the takedown. Or I'm just here for the comments, and I'm just like, I don't have time for that. Like, meanwhile, meanwhile, you look in the camera, you're like, my like Chardonnay. Yeah, totally.
+
+[44:51] Well, you know, and then like it's like, and obviously, I have my own personal opinions and strong stances on a lot of things, but like I don't want to be mean about it, and I don't have to air that to everybody else. And ultimately, it's one of those companies that I sh on is probably gonna buy my company, right? You know what I mean? So the idea of all of that is just like let's be inviting, let's be fun, and like let's just be a little bit kinder. There's a lot of other in the world that's like, you know, that's negative.
+
+[45:15] And for me, it's just like I want I want I just want to be positive and and talk, talk, drink the stuff I want to drink and talk about the stuff that's nice and the shit that's crap that like let's not give it any air time. All right, let's uh before I talk more about stuff I want to talk to you about. Let's get to the questions that other people have asked. Otherwise, I'll get in, I'll get in some trouble. Oh, by the way, what's with those crazy spirits tasting glasses with the hollow stem?
+
+[45:41] Should I get one of those? So if you can find them. So this, when I first got it into tasting wine, drinking wine is like uh 1999. And it's a Rito. It's a little readles, yeah.
+
+[45:53] Yeah, and so they discontinued the glass. So that glass used to be like 1999. Like I know I sound like a boomer, like an old person. It was used to be 1999, and then they discontinued it. And and so I've been trying to corner the market on these glasses.
+
+[46:05] So anytime I see them on eBay, I buy them. But yeah, they can be upwards of $89. I mean, I'm I'm a really bad friend. A friend of mine texts me, he goes, Hey, are these he sent me a link? He goes, Are these the glasses you're talking about?
+
+[46:17] Nope. I was like, I was like, yeah, but it looks like somebody bought them. I bought those. I bought them. So I'm gonna give them to him as a gift, but I bought them, right?
+
+[46:25] So with the idea of it, and so there's some other people that make them, but I'm I'm I'm I'm in the process of of working on something very similar. Yeah, but it's it's cool though. Yeah, I thought it was really awesome. And so I only use them for spirits now, but we used to, they were intended for wine, but they like like perfect for portioning, and the way you roll them, it's just like uh it's really cool. Yeah.
+
+[46:44] I've met two generations of Riedel. Yeah, yeah. Uh Jason Lynn writes in uh absolutely loved your book, 99 bottles, was super fun reading a wine book where I had actually tasted several of the bottles discussed. Maybe the old English, I don't know. Maybe.
+
+[46:58] Uh is it oldie or is it old? I always got because I always got the eight ball. What do you think? Old or oldie. Well, it's oh so it's we call it old.
+
+[47:06] The people we called it OE, but it's old English, it's old, right? They put the E on it from reading like Shakespeare, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But brief in the hood, we just called it OE. It was like an old ear.
+
+[47:17] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. All right, yeah. All right, okay. Uh tasted several of those bottles discussed, and where the writing was down to earth and relatable.
+
+[47:23] My question is: what current trends in wine have you most excited right now? I'm particularly interested to hear about trends that are or will be soon available to the average wine consumer. Um there's lots of things. I think like you're starting to like we're starting to finally see a lot of that, like sparkling domestic sparkling wine was was the a big thing. I especially out of Oregon, like maybe four or five years.
+
+[47:44] So you're starting to see a lot of that stuff come in. Um oddly enough, high-end wine in the box. You're starting to see a lot of that kind of stuff. I worked on a couple of projects for that, which is kind of fun. I think it's a good market for that for like the $50 box, the $60 box, you know.
+
+[47:57] No, absolutely. Like you you always want to go-to that you can do. I mean, most recently we had some friends come over, and we quite were quite we weren't quite wet yet ready. And I had like one of the prototype boxes in the refrigerator, and I just put it in the craft and bought it out. And they were like, This is so good.
+
+[48:11] What is this? Yeah. And so I had to bring it out. It was good. Because like a $50 box is like a $20 bottle, but you get more, you get four for $20, right?
+
+[48:19] Yeah. Yeah, no, it's makes sense. And so you start to see that. Um, uh just up and coming regions. Uh like uh I'm excited about uh Virginia, even though like you know, even though you like Norton or no?
+
+[48:30] No, I mean, so this is it. Like some Nortons I do, some I don't, and I'm trying to figure out like what they're doing that's different. Hybrid grapes take take a minute, right, to wear on me. But like some of the other stuff that, like the Cabernet Franc and some of the stuff that they're making, um, is great. And even though they do have a long history of wine making, but it's not considered like the top three that we all know.
+
+[48:50] And I think they're really starting to make a resurgence um on the you know, on all facets, like on some of the higher end, but you know, some of the young cool kids are down there now. Um was Dave Matthews in your celebrity wine tasting. I didn't get to watch that. Uh he was. He wasn't, he was he was in one of them.
+
+[49:05] It was okay. It was okay. I think it turned out all right. Virginia. Yeah.
+
+[49:08] And then you're starting to see a little bit um what's interesting, you're starting to see like the evening out of of natural wine. Right. So within anything, you know, you had the good stuff, you had the bad stuff, but like you're starting to see everybody call BS on other people, and you're starting to see like better wines and better quality wines being made on that front. Well, let me uh let me uh tie into that with a question from not their real name, I'm guessing Fira Banks. Okay.
+
+[49:35] Any thoughts on animosity from ultra traditional songs with regard to the recent interest in natty wine, not recent anymore, it's like recent if you're my age. Anyway, hold on. Specifically, that real vinegary sour stuff. It's not my cup of tea, but the condensation I've uh con condescension I've heard seems unreasonable. I was stressed into the wine program at a one star uh from being a pr uh line cook and completed the master psalm uh level.
+
+[49:56] Do you have any other recommendations on formal deep dives into that world besides the obvious equation of time plus experience? Uh all right, so we'll start with the latter. They're recommendations for uh you know, like like into n and it was their master psalm, but like they want to know more about not bad ways to go into natty wine. Got it. Um, I think for me it's it's so it's so funny.
+
+[50:19] So I last night we were out and we were drinking Nicholas Jolie, and it was like that was the as is as extremes that extreme as it got really in like two thousand in the early two thousands. And now you have all these other producers and a a a new crop of people coming to wine that are in the natty scene that don't even know who Nicholas Jolie is, who is considered the godfather, right? And so it's just an interesting thing, and I think for me is starting with the starting with the more traditional wines and then kind of moving your way to to natural wine, uh I think is a way to do it. But like if he's there, go to festivals. I mean, I mean, there's always like raw and all those kind of things.
+
+[50:52] And I think it's like any other tasting. You have to taste a lot in order to figure out what you like and to get away from some of the stuff. And if you don't like that, you know, then you know, there's other stuff with it on the spectrum that are in that that are considered natty. Um and it's funny because I think we all group them under to one thing, and then talking to one producer, he's like, Well, you know, within this group you that we're all putting us in, you know, there's people who make crap and people who make good stuff, right? Like with in everything, and I think you're starting to see it kind of flush out, just kind of the cream rises to the top, like early days of YouTube, cat videos.
+
+[51:28] Yeah, and now, you know, now there's some serious. Yeah, there's also still some really bad crap on YouTube. I mean, like, no, it is it it totally is everything. You know, I cringe, I come downstairs and my I was like, my kid is watching some other person play a video game, and it's like it. So, but you know you know, is anything ever gonna get better than grape stomp and and uh Afro Ninja?
+
+[51:47] I don't think so. I mean, like that's like pink internet, you know? I mean, like no, no, totally, or peanut butter or jelly type. Oh my god. The buckwheat boys, I sing that constantly.
+
+[51:56] Like, I just do that, I like go run around the house and like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's when we make it. Um, and and so, you know, so I think for there it's just like, you know, going to the festivals and tasting some of the things, it's like I can't, you have to be able to weed them out. Um, yeah, you know, it does come with some dogma, and I think they're trying to figure it out, and I think it's a lot better than what it used to be.
+
+[52:16] Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, I think there was a time, not to be an old jerk jerk about it, but there was a time when I think there was a a little bit of just and anything went, and like people would pour you crap that was overtly flawed and be like, I like this because it tastes like poison, and you're like, okay. Yeah, but it seems like it's a lot of money. The hard part about all of it is is that is it really, is it a flaw if somebody likes it? And I I I'm what I come in the camp that it is, but to other people it's not.
+
+[52:47] And and I would have to say that over the last 20 years, I've witnessed America, Americans' taste change, which is really a sweet palate, but somehow has does like a little bit of sour. So think about like the rise of kombucha. Yeah. Sour beer, all is gateway to natural. I like sour beer, right?
+
+[53:06] Yeah. But like I just don't want too much of an acetic note in my wine. No, no, I'm I'm I'm in the same place, right? It's like some of it, some of it I can drink, some of it I can't. Um, you know, some wines that somebody pour me, they're still going through fermentation.
+
+[53:18] So, you know, so we so you know, we work through that. And I, you know, if it's bringing more people to the part wine party, I'm into it. What I don't like is the dogma that comes with it. But like, you know, in the other wine world, pretense came with it. So you have to figure it out.
+
+[53:31] Speaking of still fermenting, can Beaujolais Nouveau ever taste good? I don't I don't think so. I don't think so. It's so funny because I try to, how do I explain rose? I explain explain rose as the bourgeolet nouveau of summer for some makers.
+
+[53:48] Yeah, right? You know, it's the stuff that would hit the ground floor, and it's only you know, it's only good for you know a couple of months and and then you move on. But uh yeah, no, I've I've never had any that I've liked. I really want to like it. I want it to be something, and then I'm like giving up on it.
+
+[54:05] Yeah, it agives. Who cares? You know what I mean? Like uh Vengroff writes in uh how is climate change affecting the wine industry? Uh bear in mind, I got a couple more questions, so we're gotta do the short version.
+
+[54:19] Uh how's climate change affecting the wine industry? Are there things changing in terms of what varietals do well in what areas? Are terroirs known for their microclimates now experiencing something different that's bigger than the normal vintage to vintage variation? Correct. Yeah, so uh the short answer to that question is yes.
+
+[54:34] Um climate change is definitely affecting the wine industry. Um my first harvest in 2007, we were picking grapes in Oregon around October 15th, 10th, 15th, late 20s, and now we're picking in early September, right? So, you know, a whole month earlier, but like it is it is it is happening. Same sugar level? Um yeah, so same sugar level.
+
+[54:56] And what and what people are doing now, what I would say is like some people pick early 2015. I think Oregon was going through an identity crisis because it was so warm. And what made us unique, a lot of people, you know, like those kind of more voluptuous wines are making that style. Um, but what you've seen is California wineries move to other regions to hedge their bets. So California wineries come into Oregon, coming to Washington, going to Vancouver, right?
+
+[55:19] Uh people planting different grapes. Um, but within those pockets of different microclimates, some people are changing grapes, some people are changing the their vinification practices or you know, maybe picking earlier. Yeah, yeah. Uh speaking of uh, you want to tell me what a garage wine is? Because uh may you're you would plug your plug your plug your winery.
+
+[55:38] Yeah, so I make a wine, uh name of my company is called Meson Noir Wines. Uh you might know us as Muton Noir wines. I was in a long seven-year battle with Muton Rothschild. Um I'll leave it at that, I'll leave it at that. Oh, yeah, I've gotten I've gotten I've been in legal battles with a whole bunch of people.
+
+[55:52] Um, but um, and so there was a thing in Bordeaux called garage, they we call them garage wines, and it's because they didn't come from these picturesque chateaus, and you know, and normally, you know, there's not a real definition is like, oh, they made wine in the garage, or it was only they made enough wine they can only fit in the garage. But the the idea is is that you know, kind of like uh garage ban, it was you know, somewhat a novice turn professional kind of thing, and but it doesn't imply that you're technically an idiot, it just means you're doing it in small amounts, right? Correct. So yeah, totally. Not an not a not an idiot at all.
+
+[56:25] Sure, not the garage bands are idiots. I'm not trying to say anything. I'm hey, don't get it. Well, a lot of them started in garage. So it was the whole idea of like, you know, this kind of playful thing on on wine, and it was just like, hey, we're like these bands of negotiant, we get fruit where we can, and blah, blah, blah, and we make our product and sell them.
+
+[56:42] All right, L Butts writes in uh first he wants to say, I hope you're doing better because you're supposed to be on the show before and you uh got uh sick there. But uh two questions. Big fan of the fun energy you put towards the industry. In your opinion, what is the most underrated uh region or variety in the new world versus the old world? And uh was recently talking to a colleague at work who's interested in getting into wine, and whilst it's easy enough to explain varietals, regional styles, and even the idea of terroir to a wine noob is the hardest thing to explain.
+
+[57:07] Uh and uh well, the price the price point along with the terroir and the is the hardest thing to explain to them. I have similar issues with other friends. How to talk to them about it. Um it's funny because I think like it's any anything that you consume or drink, it's it's a personal taste. And so um, you know, I try to explain it like it's like okay, well, you know, you some people drive a Honda, some people drive a Ferrari, right?
+
+[57:29] So both of those cars get you from point A to point B, but the experiences could be the different. You could like the experience of the Honda better than you could could a Ferrari, right? So kind of the same thing. It's like I think that you have to continue to taste what you like and in your budget point. Do you think it's funny when you see a Ferrari in city traffic?
+
+[57:45] I'd laugh because because you're not getting out of first gear. Yeah. Right. And you ground in the gears down. Like I so I met this guy.
+
+[57:53] Uh he was uh I used to work at uh Palm Steakhouse, and we used to have um in the two minutes. Got it. In the front, we had uh we had valley parking, and they parked his car up front. He had Tiptonic shirt uh shift box on it, right? Uh 355.
+
+[58:07] Parking in front. He would come in, and I think he went to the bathroom. The cop was gonna give him a ticket from the car. The the people couldn't move it, and I moved the car, which is a total no-no, right? And he said, Who moved my car?
+
+[58:19] And he totally freaked out. And I said, I'm so sorry. I did, I just didn't want you to get a ticket. And he's like, How do you know how to drive this thing? And I was like, Oh, I I learned how to on a simulator, and blah blah blah.
+
+[58:30] We started cracking up. But no, but anyways, we it was a great time and we became lifelong friends, and I got to drive the car a lot. But that but that being said, yeah, there's but and first gear, it's like you know what I mean? So it's a different experience from driving. That's what I try to explain to people.
+
+[58:42] Um, cool things and uh great varietals and region, old uh, I think new world. Um, you know, I still I'm still digging Virginia. I would I you know stuff that's coming out of Virginia is really great. Old world, um Portugal wines. I think we've been talking about that all for a very long time, and I think now that a lot of Americans are moving there in expat, I think you're gonna start to see a lot of people come and request and start drinking wines from Portugal.
+
+[59:03] I've never been to Portugal. Like, I know you're not talking about this, but port, but their cheese is just out of this world. Uh what do you think about large oysters? Do you have any large oyster thoughts? Because I have a question about large oysters.
+
+[59:16] Uh large oysters, they're scary when they're raw. So I would always, you know, fry those suckers up and make a sandwich. Yeah, Ashkash Bagash uh ordered some large ones, they're colossal. He they thought they were super tasty, but too served to uh too big to serve to a guest in good conscience because they're not gonna go all the way down. Any suggestions on alternative ways to serve them?
+
+[59:32] Maybe. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, like you can't you can't serve a north of that. You can't.
+
+[59:37] No, but do they have some of these ones that are like freaking like old school, like you seen these? Like the size of your head, the crazy. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, how could you serve that? I think you have to cut it up.
+
+[59:45] All right, listen. I have not been uh you have a like we haven't even talked about half the stuff, but uh you and sons. I've not been to your ham bar and I I I love American ham more. Yeah, yeah, man. You gotta go.
+
+[59:56] Steve, I gotta come. And uh why don't you give a plug for where that is? So yeah, that's on uh in uh prospect Leverett's Garden at uh uh 447 Rogers Avenue. We have several little businesses there, but this is my little uh o to American ham, American American country ham, American cheese, old American wine back to the 50s, 22 seats, 400 square feet. Uh, and just really a love letter to American uh and you know what I you know what I loved on it is that you have a lot of new producers along with the old producers, like uh a lot of new stuff coming out of the Carolinas that you wouldn't have found like 15 years ago that I was like super excited about.
+
+[1:00:29] If I had another hour, I would talk to you about all of these hams. But uh, you know, please come back anytime. We'd love to have you back on the show. Andre Mack, cooking issues. All right.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, a Rockefeller Center, New York City, New Stand Studios, joined behind me with uh Joe Hazen rocking the panels. How are you doing? I'm doing well, man. Full house.
+
+[0:22] Yeah, yeah. On the other side of the studio, we got John, how you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yeah? Yeah.
+
+[0:27] Yeah? Uh over there in Los Angeles, I think both in Los Angeles, we have uh Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing? I'm good. How are you?
+
+[0:34] Good. Good. Jackie Molecules. I'm in Austin. Oh.
+
+[0:38] Austin, Texas. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Just for the just for the breakfast burritos?
+
+[0:43] Or is there another reason you're there? I'm at the Line Hotel doing some interviews and stuff for them. And uh very quick, very quickly before we start, I want to shout out uh a fan of the show that I met last night. Okay. Uh he runs he runs a hot dog uh pop-up called Z's Wiener System.
+
+[1:01] Um it was very, very good. Yeah, so what's the theory of operation of Z's Wiener system? What do you mean the theory? I mean, what kind of hot dog? I mean, John, right?
+
+[1:11] You can't just bring them out. You can't just say like that they're doing a hot dog thing. I need I need deets. Like what like hot dog can mean many things. Yeah.
+
+[1:20] Well, the one last night that he was saw uh serving had olive salad on it, gouda whiz, red wine, vinegar, and oil, oregano. That was the special. Um it's really good. What's the base hot dog? Uh I mean.
+
+[1:36] Don't fail me, Kat. I'm not a big hot dog guy. I so rarely have them, but what technique of cooking did they use? Are they on a griddle? Griddling, okay.
+
+[1:47] Like uh what colored outside or not colored outside? Blonde or like, you know, close to like Ripper? What are we looking at here? Well, Ripper should be fried. But you know what I'm saying?
+
+[1:55] Like, what what what does it look like? What does it feel like? Snap or no snap? It's snap. Good snap.
+
+[2:02] Okay. I love snap. Yeah. Good snap. I do not appreciate an snapless dog.
+
+[2:08] Seven and a half inches, all beef. Yeah, look good. I'm looking them up. Yeah, all right. Sounds about right.
+
+[2:15] Sounds about great. Do they uh John, do they call out the uh do they call out the dog of choice? They do not. They do not, no. Yeah.
+
+[2:25] Uh we can get into it later. I did a uh I did a Connecticut cross tasting of different uh Connecticut Hummels versus others. Yeah. Different but good. I couldn't decide.
+
+[2:34] I thought I'd have a favorite. Anyway, wait, wait. Sorry. Uh upper, upper left-hand corner, Quinn. How you doing?
+
+[2:41] I am around. You're yeah, yeah, still still with us. Yeah, yeah. Quinn had the COVID this last week. Yeah, that sucks.
+
+[2:48] You bet uh you're you're uh you sound okay, so your lungs are your lungs are not uh overly affected, I hope. Yeah, I got the I got the all the good drugs and uh they're working for you. Yeah, what's that? The Paxlovid? You're rocking the Paxlovid?
+
+[3:04] Yep. Yeah. Rocking the Pax Lovid. Nice, nice. Wait, is it is it Paxlovid or Paxlovid?
+
+[3:09] Or can you say anything you want? I don't think it matters as long as you can inhale and say the words. Yeah, all right. Fair enough. Uh that's funny.
+
+[3:21] Yeah, yeah, it's good. Uh and today we uh, as uh Joe intimated, we have a full house. We have not one, but two special guests. Uh first, of course, you know him from back in the days when he was uh, you know, America's representative of the Orican Salmon Corporation, but no more. He's got his own salmon corporation now.
+
+[3:37] He's gonna talk about Michael Fabro. Good to have you back. Uh great to be back. Yeah, yeah. Good to see you.
+
+[3:42] No longer King Salmon. Now we're talking Coho. That's right. It's still a Pacific species, but a different one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[3:48] Okay. Well, we'll get into it. We'll get into it. But uh I'm also super psyched and we've never met before. Uh Save Kawaja, who is the engineer that you have teamed with to do some really funky, funky, funky stuff at the at the new place.
+
+[4:01] Uh first of its kind in this country anyway. First of its kind anywhere with exactly what you're doing, but first of its kind in this country, even I I believe in a farm situation. I'll a little spoiler alert, they're doing uh Ikajime on their uh farm-raised uh salmon. And we're gonna talk a lot about it in a minute. But first, uh we're on the section of the show where we just shoot the breeze over what happened last week.
+
+[4:21] So uh Safe, I don't know you, but I noticed uh as you walked in that you just flew in from somewhere because you lost your iPad. So says uh, you know, the airline corporation gave you a little tag instead of your iPad. I'm assuming you would prefer to have the iPad. Yeah, very much so. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[4:35] So uh where where were you? What was going on? Did you eat anything good while you were there? Uh I've been a back and forth. We just opened up our second office in LA.
+
+[4:42] And so by, you know, I'm kind of in between LA and New York right now. So really just enjoying the sunshine, the ocean. Uh I just missed the rain. There's some pretty crazy flooding. Yeah, I would have liked to.
+
+[4:53] Well, there the you know, that the other half of the team is all on that coast, like enjoying that rain. Apparently, even though Nastasia lives on a slope, is this correct, Nastasia? It still somehow floods in your house. They went under the house and up under and up. So like so, like there's like a rock or something under your house that like the stream is hitting and then it just shoots up, but it's not like in a pretty way, right?
+
+[5:16] It's like in a trash can way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there was an earthquake on Friday. Oh man. Oh, yeah.
+
+[5:23] I was in uh on the 18th floor of a building when the earthquake happened. And that was my second earthquake I've ever experienced. So which one did you enjoy more? Um, I didn't remember the first one. I didn't know I I had experienced one before.
+
+[5:34] The last serious earthquake I was in, I didn't feel because we were in an office tower in in Tokyo, Nastasi and I, and my wife and Dax. And I was running a vacuum machine, and somehow, you know how if you orient yourself just right with the waves, you can't feel it as much. And I was just so angry, I think, that I didn't feel it. Whereas everyone else in the building was like, Did you feel that earthquake? I was like, nah.
+
+[6:00] Did you feel it, Sas? I don't remember. We were together, so you probably also didn't feel it. I remember feeling other ones in our there was a bunch that happened, like in our room. We were so high that the building would like swing.
+
+[6:12] Oh, it was awful. Yeah, I never forget. One of the people we were working with had been there for a huge earthquake, like a couple years prior. And you know, they're all on the 40 and change floor up at the park Hyatt, you know, up at the New York bar. And uh he was like, Yeah, when the earthquake happened, like our job was to physically take the guests and walk them down the stairs.
+
+[6:32] I was like, oh yeah. So you, you know, you weren't frightened. He's like, oh no, I assumed I was dead. Yeah, yeah. But he was like real mellow, almost like flight attendant mellow.
+
+[6:40] You know what I mean? Just doing your job. Just doing your job. It's why you can't trust professionals because they're gonna give you the same demeanor regardless of what's about to happen. You know what I mean?
+
+[6:48] It's like when you see uh when you see like uh, you know, a contract killer on a on a movie and they're all calm right before they kill you because they don't want you to get excited because that causes more problems for them. Right. You know what I mean? Anywho. Uh all right.
+
+[7:02] So uh so that was good. You but do you eat anything over there? Or you just did you miss the floods? Honestly, I have like a big stack of pizzas that are in our office. Don't have much time to do it.
+
+[7:12] I wish it was uh more exciting than that. Yeah, I'm going to Phoenix tomorrow, but I don't think I'm gonna be I don't think I'm gonna make it into the uh famed uh Bianco Pizza. I don't think that I I couldn't get a reservation. I think I'm gonna make it in. Do you need a reservation?
+
+[7:24] Do they have reservations? I think they do. I don't remember it being that difficult, but I was there a number of times today, though. It's Valentine's Day. Oh, that's okay.
+
+[7:31] That's a different story. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[7:33] Anyway. Uh who else? Who else? What do you got? Quim, you always have something.
+
+[7:37] What do you got? Uh actually I do have quite a bit. We made a sort of chicken and onion regou in the style of regurjay vive, but with chicken because we just felt like it. And I also used a mixture of white wine and a little bit of uh Chinese style cooking wine. It's pretty good.
+
+[8:02] Yeah. All right. So like not really Italian at all. So wait, Tommy. I'm just messing with Queen.
+
+[8:08] Well, that doesn't matter. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. Uh I wonder whether I did anything.
+
+[8:13] I've been cooking a lot. I just can't remember whether I can't. Actually, it's so weird. Usually I think before I come about what I what I've been doing, and I can't think of it. I've been making a lot of oleo sacrums.
+
+[8:22] You guys like oleo sacrums? Anyone? Anyone? Don't know what that is. So you take uh peel, like citrus peel, and you smash it with sugar, right?
+
+[8:31] And then that that abrasive power like uh breaks up the oil vesicles, right? And then you you let it sit, and then the the moisture in the peel is managed by the sugar that's there and it makes its own syrup. Right? So it's kind of like a candied peel? No, no, no, no, you don't eat the peel.
+
+[8:48] What happens is it makes like a syrup and then you drain the syrup off. But all the recipes online sittily siddly, siddily suck. They're all terrible. Uh, because uh, let me ask you a question. Uh why would you write a recipe that gives an amount of sugar per unit fruit?
+
+[9:07] Right? Right? A grapefruit can be the size of a large orange. A grapefruit can be the size of a football, right? Like, what is a grapefruit?
+
+[9:16] You know what I mean? What is a lemon? You know what I'm saying? It'll be different if they're like, you get your number 50 lemons and it takes this much. No, they don't do that.
+
+[9:23] They're just like, two this many lemons. Well, what lemon do you use, you jerk? You moron? Idiot. You know what I mean?
+
+[9:29] It's like, what the hell is this? And so uh, you know, I've been doing some research, and uh, it looks like peels are roughly 70 70 to 77% moisture, right? But you can't get all of that back, and then some of the sugar is lost in the in the um in the process, right? Because it stays, you know, it gets mashed into the peel, and then there's some talk cross back and forth, so you can't get all the sugar in the yield back. So the maximum, assuming that you can get a you use like a super fine sugar, let's say, and assuming that you can get a fully saturated 66% uh syrup out of it, about the most that you can really get water wise out.
+
+[10:05] It's about 60% weight of the peel in water. So really 1.2 times the weight of the peel is the maximum you can do and still get, you know, uh without having to add extra liquid and get a uh, you know, a syrup out of it. But people are like, and really one-to-one's better. That's what I do. But like, because I don't want a 66 brisks.
+
+[10:21] What the hell am I? What am I? Anyway, but the point being uh that nobody writes that. Put this many ounces to this many lemons. Um God, come on, grow up.
+
+[10:32] Grow up. Anyway. Calling your questions to 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507. If you're listening on Patreon, and John, why don't you tell them how they can listen on Patreon if they so desire?
+
+[10:43] Patreon.com/slash cooking issues. You guys should check out the website. There's um three different levels of membership. You got awesome perks at all the levels, uh discounts with partners that we work with, um, access to Discord and just a whole bunch of other awesome things. So check it out.
+
+[10:56] Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Wait, so none of you folks did any Super Bowl crap? Food, nothing, no one? Uh a little bit. Yeah.
+
+[11:04] Oh. We actually made boneless wings. Like a literal boneless wings. Yeah. It's a pain in the butt.
+
+[11:11] Sucks. Done it. Yeah. Yeah. Name.
+
+[11:13] Yeah. You get that, you know, the pleasure of eating them quickly and the displeasure of having to fabricate them all. Blows. Yeah, I mean. Did you at least pre-cook, pull, and then and then do the fry off?
+
+[11:24] Or did you actually try to bone those suckers out when they're raw? God God bless you if you did. No, we did. Yeah, my dad. We bone them out raw.
+
+[11:33] Flash right. What a pain in the butt. You know what's a lot easier, Quinn? Going forward in your life? A lot easier is to make uh is to make uh drumstick balls.
+
+[11:42] Cut the drumstick balls in half. And then if you just a little like light, light gluing on the drumstick balls, and uh they they just look like bet they're better wings. It's just a better wing. So the the way you make a drumstick ball is you uh you take uh poultry shears and you go in on the uh I don't know, what do you call this, the elbow side of the of the drumstick, uh, and then you just you you go around the cartilage against the bone with your shears. You go snap, snap, snap, snap, snap, like three or four times.
+
+[12:11] Like like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Like you're cutting around like like but but I can't speak it visually, but you can see it, right? You just you're going in along the bone and then rotating around, like a lacka lacka. Now the now the bone is free. Then you flip it around and you pull on that thing, you pull it on so that you're pulling it tight over the, you know, the part of the drumstick that you hold, and then snap, you cut off that that part of the bone, the you know, the the part that the people leave on the street to kill my dog.
+
+[12:35] You know what I'm talking about? You cut off that thing, and then you just rip the whole bone out from the knuckle end, and all a lot of the tendons and stuff come out. And when that thing cooks, if you're not gonna do wing style, when that thing cooks, it shrinks into a ball. Hence we call them leg balls. And they're delicious.
+
+[12:51] You low temp those suckers through and you fry them, and you get these like they're almost like Aroncini looking balls that are just drumstick without all that tendon. You know how much meat is wasted on the average drumstick? When you give a drumstick to the average idiot, no offense, people, you're idiots, at restaurants, and they take two bites and they leave all that meat on the drumstick and then it's sitting there on the plate. I hate that. I understand it when it happens with turkey because the turkey is in invariably like the meat just doesn't come off the bone, and nobody just wants to work that hard.
+
+[13:19] It's like, why do they sell those dang turkey things at at Disney Disney X, Y, and Z, and they never don't take the tendons out. And you see a little kid with getting poked in the eye by a tendon, and of course they're not eating the whole turkey lake. You familiar with what I'm talking about? Yeah, Jacques Papin uses his needle-nosed pliers to pull them out. Turkey tendons.
+
+[13:36] I've said this before on the show. I don't know, maybe, uh, but they used to have so like if you when you're butchering the turkey, right? They used to have a machine where what it would do is it held the the drumstick end of the turkey real tight, real tight. Then did a like a score around it, and then broke it off over a table and you pulled the all of the tendons out through this tiny hole. But it only works if you do it when the feet are still attached, because they leave all the tendons attached to the feet, and then they just grab the feet real because it's real strong, and then all the tendons, and then they extrude it through a little hole that the meat can't get extruded through along with the bone.
+
+[14:16] Genius. That's what the processors used to do. They don't anymore. No. Maybe it costs an extra one cent and nobody cares.
+
+[14:23] People stopped caring about turkey meat. It's just a visual thing for a lot of people. So, you know, people are bad. People really, this they're terrible. Uh Michael, you said you had something interesting you cooked uh this week.
+
+[14:34] Uh not particularly interesting, just a little Super Bowl pre-game meal. So I'm from San Francisco originally, so I had a you know a rooting interest in the game. Wanted to have a sit-down proper meal before the game started. So just did uh just my girlfriend and I, a little pan seared steak, uh, some uh some nice hot pretzels, place that we get them from in Brooklyn. Uh some Tony Paco's pickles.
+
+[14:57] Um, a girlfriend's from Toledo. Ohio? Yeah. You know Tony. No.
+
+[15:03] You don't know Tony Paco's? Oh my God. Uh let's give me some Tony Paco's. Tony Paco's is the most famous restaurant in Toledo. Oh well, I've never been to Toledo.
+
+[15:14] Have you seen Mash? The television industry. That one? Yeah. Suicide's painless.
+
+[15:20] Yeah, yeah. Uh so Klinger? Yeah. Character. Colonel Klinger.
+
+[15:25] Colonel? No. Um, no, uh Corporal, Corporal Klinger. Corporal Klinger. Corporal Klinger.
+
+[15:29] Um, he was from Toledo. And I think he might have actually in the show, he was from Toledo. I think he actually is from Toledo. No, what's that guy? What's that guy's name?
+
+[15:36] Uh, what's his name? Uh he hated radar the person. The person who played Klinger hated. Jamie Farr. Jamie Farr.
+
+[15:46] He hated whoever it was that played. Apparently, radar is a real pain in the patoot as a person. Okay, I could see that. Yeah. You know, I don't know.
+
+[15:53] I don't know any of these people in the real life. You know what I mean? Gary Berg Burgoff. Ah, you're a real mash of finato. I actually didn't like the show.
+
+[16:00] What the hell is all that? What are you? Just an encyclopedic knowledge of like 60s and 70s televisions? Maybe it's just all goes back to Toledo. I don't know.
+
+[16:08] Maybe. It's an iconic show, though. I don't think people watching it. It is. But nobody cares.
+
+[16:15] They're like, they're like, there was a Korean war. What? They don't even know. People don't even know how and the people have no memory. At least my kids don't.
+
+[16:22] Uh it's my fault there. My kids don't know, therefore it's my fault. Right? Right. Uh and then so steak, and then Tony Paco's is the restaurant is also a pickle uh they're famous for their pickle.
+
+[16:32] So I believe it. Well, first of all, what kind of pickle? Like a real pickle or like a bread and butter pickle? No offense. See you're gonna put me uh on the phone.
+
+[16:41] I actually like bread and butter pickles. So it was a it's uh it's sour, but also has heat. Uh-huh. Uh not much sweetness to it. All right.
+
+[16:49] But maybe just in the back, somewhere there's a little sweetness. All right. Uh might have been a little bit of clove in there. Uh clove. Yeah.
+
+[16:57] We're gonna talk about clove later. Uh yeah. Um and I believe Tony Paco was a Hungarian immigrant or had Hungarian heritage, so it's kind of a Hungarian American restaurant. They they do they're famous for like chili and hot dogs and their pickles. Yeah.
+
+[17:12] I don't know what that has to do with Hungary, but I don't know. Uh but their pickles are good. So for Christmas, cooking things people want to eat. That's what people do. That's right.
+
+[17:19] They come to this country and they cook things that people will buy. Right. It's genius. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh all right, awesome.
+
+[17:26] All right. Um, I know what I wanted to talk about. Get this. This makes no sense. You ready for this?
+
+[17:31] I'm gonna put Nastasia on blast here. Nastasia is in California. California, theoretically a progressive state, can't gamble online in California. Did you know this? Oh good.
+
+[17:41] Did not be. Cannot gamble online in California. So I had to set up this like online thing for Nastasia where I had to pretend to be Nastasia because my physical human flesh sack was in New York State. And like, you know, like they'll sell you anything. You could buy anything.
+
+[17:58] You could buy like some sort of WMD, it's fine, but like they, if you want to bet, then like all creation has to make sure that you're actually in this locale or the all hell breaks loose, right, Stas? Yes. Yes. So Nastasia correctly. What?
+
+[18:16] What did you say? We do we use DraftKings. It sounds shady when you talk about it. Like we're, you know. It's uh we use draft.
+
+[18:24] It's my it's my Uncle Ralph Figuerito down the street doing the bookmaking. No, actually, my Uncle Ralph was a bookmaker, but uh but the but the point is is that uh he passed actually died recently, Uncle Ralph. I am almost completely out of crazy uncles. Now I'm the only crazy uncle left. How messed up is that?
+
+[18:43] I mean, literally, I used to when I was a kid, I had so many crazy uncles. You know, a couple normal ones. You know what I mean? And now gone. Ralph, Uncle Ralph was one of the last.
+
+[18:53] I feel bad. Pit boss, Reno, many years. Oh, yeah. Reno Reno. Yeah.
+
+[18:58] Yeah. Then started making uh their company made the equipment that wrapped cigarette packages. Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah. Jersey.
+
+[19:08] Brilliant. Yeah, yeah. Uh his dad, when he got out of the bookmaking business, had to get a special dispensation to come back to New Jersey to go to Uncle Ralph and my Aunt Sandy's wedding from the locals and be like, it's okay to come back even though you're retired. So they had, you know, had to go through the proper channels. Yeah.
+
+[19:28] Yeah. Good times. What are we talking about? I don't even remember. Oh, betting.
+
+[19:29] So what happened was Nastasia. So I I actually like appreciate this because you know, for years Nastasia like talks a big game about what she predicted and what she doesn't. But in the past couple of years, she's gotten in the habit, correct me if I'm wrong, Staz, of like overtly predicting things so that you can be like, oh yeah, you actually did say that, right? Right. So she correctly bets that San Francisco's gonna be up at halftime, but the Kansas City's gonna win, right?
+
+[20:01] But she gets completely hosed. Tell them what happened, Staz. Because they went into overtime. And apparently that's not part of my bet. Yeah.
+
+[20:12] So this is like it's a parlay, basically. Well, she did she bet halftime full time, not halftime finish. Ah, uh, sucks. It sucks because she would have made like a good chunk of change. It was $25 to be clear.
+
+[20:28] It wasn't like it's more an honor bet. But you were gonna make $170 if you won. And it's bull crap. It's like it's like it's like the double zero on a roulette wheel. What the hell is this?
+
+[20:39] You know what I mean? I I heard they added another uh another zero to the roulette wheels. Really? Just called F U. Uh yeah.
+
+[20:45] It's like there's like a third zero. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. Which, you know, this is why I don't gamble. I just does it's I can't I can't do it.
+
+[20:51] I can't do it. I mean, I gamble a lot, but just not on games of chance. You know? Has anyone been to Vegas recently? Is it true?
+
+[20:56] Is there a third zero now? I've never been to Vegas ever my whole life. I was just in Vegas, and some of them, yes. It's kind of how, like, now in Vegas, all the cheap tables on the strip pay like six to five on blackjack instead of three to two. Um, which is ridiculous.
+
+[21:11] Huh. I haven't heard that. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know, man.
+
+[21:14] This making it hard on the on the regular guy. I here's I'll tell you the closest I get to casinos, uh, I mean, they have good mall in the casinos up in uh in Connecticut. I've been to those. But uh I used to get you used to be able to get free ticket to Atlantic City on a bus. So you would like pay like $10 for the bus, right?
+
+[21:37] And they would give you like $15 worth of tokens of uh chips to go into the casino. So the casino would pay for these buses of people to go down to Atlantic City from the port authority. So we had a friend who lived in Ventner, which is just south of Atlantic City. They live right on the beach. And so to get down to their house before we had a car, basically the casinos would pay us to go down there, and we would immediately just cash the chips in and make five dollars off the deal.
+
+[22:00] You know, go get go get some taffy or a funnel cake and call it call it a day. And it's a great deal, you know. I don't know if they still do that kind of stuff. Probably. Probably.
+
+[22:10] Anyway. All right, let's talk about fish. Now we have a lot to talk about because uh, you know, Michael, your company rebranded what, two years ago? When you moved a year ago you as uh local coho. When did the rebrand happen?
+
+[22:25] Uh when you went on? No, so um local coho uh as a company started probably about uh five or six years ago now. Um and uh um this has gone through some twists and turns along that way. I joined about two years ago, but they had already established local coho as as the brand that that they wanted to have. And in your your Megilla is inland recirculating aquaculture in upstate New York, right?
+
+[22:53] That's absolutely right. So that's one piece of growing uh I always mentioned freshwater also. Just no, we're gonna get into it. So that's like that's one big technology thing. Okay, we'll get into it.
+
+[23:05] But and then but the second big thing, and the what I'm super excited to have safe here is that uh you also are practicing the only, well, first of all, the only farmed uh product that I know of that in the United States that is uh has Ikijime techno techniques. And for those of you who don't know, Iki GMA writ large or the is the panoply of fish killing techniques uh pioneered in Japan to increase the quality of fish flesh uh as it's consumed uh by by people. Uh not only that, but maybe the first AI uh ikojima machine ever, the first machine learning brain spike. That's what we like to think. Yeah.
+
+[23:42] Well, wait, are there are there other people? Do you have like cage matches with people? No, no. I mean, maybe put the robots, you know, and get them head to head, but we're I mean, I like to think we're the for only one uh as far as I know in the indu the industrial farms in Japan are sitting there with people doing it by hand, you know, there's some gamut. Yeah.
+
+[24:01] Had to be someone not there, I think. What do you think? Yeah, well, I think, you know, uh it's interesting when you compare the food systems, right? Like, you know, the US is I, you know, I'm immigrant to the US, right? And so I get to also kind of look at things a little bit from outside.
+
+[24:16] And I've been both to the US and to Japan when I was younger. And when I'm here in the US, the way that I almost see the philosophy around how we grow our food is very top down, where it's like X number of people, Y number of calories per person equals Z volume production. Whereas in Japan, there's a little bit of a different relationship. I think that is changing in the modern times, but if you go to small pockets like Pokkaido, um, they think of it very bottoms up, where, you know, you take these artisanal systems that feed people on individual basis really effectively, and then how do you scale those, right? And so that's why, you know, Japan, like Wagyu has the branding it does, right?
+
+[24:52] When the genetics are mixed and, you know, all these other uh factors around it, really it comes down to the certain philosophy that, you know, um our food becomes us, that there's just tradition and culture passed down that I think, you know, um brings these really special um methods like ikiji May to the re really to the forefront. Um there are some other alternatives that people are using to try and replicate some of um that are not like just automation, carbon monoxide, um, electrical stunning, things like that. I've tried some of those. What do you think? Uh I had real bad luck with electrostunning, like real bad luck.
+
+[25:29] I spoke to the people who were doing electrostunning on crustaceans. I've tried it some with, I mean, obviously it's a little bit dicey to do it on your own on a safety standpoint, electro stunning. Uh pretty dangerous, yeah. Uh and also this was, you know, 10, 12 years ago, there weren't a lot. I mean, a lot of the research as far as I can remember on electrostunning was um with waveform, um, you know, particular pulse trains, where to hit them, but they always cause like super damage.
+
+[25:58] Like so much. Yeah. So like let's I mean, okay, so let's I don't know where to start here. I really don't. So uh I was gonna say, how'd you get into like ikojime?
+
+[26:10] Like you must have come from engineering first, ikijime second, or did you grow up like a fish freak? What like where did you come where how did you come to want to apply engineering uh to ikijime? But then I think for a lot of our listeners, I mean a lot of our listeners know about ikijime, but like some of them probably don't, right? What the kind of benefits are. Because I think, you know, um 10, 12 years ago when I first heard about it from Dave Chang, I thought it was honestly mystical bull crap until I ran a bunch of tests and you know, read read a lot of papers on it.
+
+[26:38] So I don't know what what what should we tackle first in this? How you got into it or what the hell it is? Yeah, we can start from there and then uh the uh uh origin story. Okay, your origin story. All right, go for it.
+
+[26:49] Yeah, sure. So uh I grew up on the coast my entire life, so uh not related to fishing, but you know, I like to say uh seafaring family. Uh um born in Canada, but then raised in Saudi Arabia and Jeddah, and then um the UAE in Dubai, uh, which are you know, actually most people think of Dubai as you know, the oil uh, you know, well, actually technically Sabdhabi, but I think of the UAE as very much like oil driven, but Dubai actually was started as uh a fishing port. And um, so it's on the coast. What's the main fish there?
+
+[27:18] Um it depends on which area, you know. Actually, if you go and fish off of Fajera, which is on the other side, you can go and get tuna. In Dubai, there's like sherry, which is kind of like a porky, you know. Um, and then what do they eat it panned like a sardine? What do they do?
+
+[27:32] Yeah, it's almost it's always cooked um and cooked the same day, uh, you know, or at least a few days after very rapidly. Like grill, but more grill or more like a whole pan, like yeah, yeah. So they'll normally gut it and then put things inside and then just you know, um, serve the entire thing. Um and then yeah, you know, my uh my granddad w uh was uh my family's Kashmiri, uh my granddad's a navy, so we actually have matching sato tattoos. Um yeah, he's the only granddad I ever met, but it was kind of symbolic for that.
+
+[27:59] And then uh my sister loves a scuba dive. So very much like I grew up around water. And the first time I went fishing was with my dad. And so we're sitting in the Red Sea, beautiful idyllic environment, pull a fish out of the water. And so these uh the natural thing for a fisherman to do, throw it in a bucket of ice, clothes off the top, and don't think about it, right?
+
+[28:14] But you know, when you go back to the dock and you land two hours later and you open the bucket, the fish is normally still alive, right? And you'll see some blood around the edges and you know, but you'll see it breathing, really, trying to because the ice will melt, or there'll still be some made of water. You know, they're built very different. And so I I was, you know, pretty young at the time, didn't really think too hard about it. But fast forward 20 years, immigrate here to the US by myself.
+
+[28:38] Uh, went to college uh where I studied business and physics, and then uh I went to graduate school for computer science. One of my early mornings there, there was this uh essay in the newspaper on uh if fish could scream. It was all about how because fish don't have vocal cords, we give them less empathy than land mammals, like cattle, poultry, whatever have you. And most pertinent was really like the end of life experience. So the essay by Peter Singer was really about how most fish today suffocate to death when you walk into most mass market retailers, and um that suffocation process, you know, people think it happens right away for the fish lose consciousness, but in the reality can take many hours.
+
+[29:14] And so talking about that and basically some uh around that, some of the issues around waste, um, specifically in the wild cotton industry, um, but also around like phenomenology of pain, what does it mean to be feel pain, experience, things like that? And so I was just thinking about the problem space on YouTube. Uh, I searched up how to kill fish. I found Andrew Troi from the EK Jimmy Federation, who has done a lot of work around EKG May awareness here in the US. I sent him a cold email on if anyone had automated E.K.
+
+[29:42] May and the rest is history. Uh, I think it's hilarious. You're the one of the only people I have met who is like uh read singers's work and been like, how can I kill these things more effectively? Thing. Uh we uh uh so I I started the Museum of Food and Drink.
+
+[30:01] Uh and we once did a um uh ethics of meat, and he was we had him on as one of the panelists. It's so funny. It was him and um I was the moderator and it was Patrick Martins from Heritage Food. I forget who the third person was, but oh my God, what a what an odd crew that was. Uh yeah.
+
+[30:21] Um, all right. So for Iki Jime, right? I think what is clear is that the end of life experience for fish anyway, it hasn't been as proven in other animals. I was really interested, by the way. If you want to get really gruesome about it, I w have been for a long time interested in um in uh nitrogen uh hypoxia for mammal slaughter.
+
+[30:49] Uh I know they do it for tuna. Uh well, and they they just did the first human uh execution in Alabama with uh nitrogen gas. Yeah. Yeah. Uh and uh uh to not to get horribly gruesome, but I guess we're gonna get horribly gruesome on it.
+
+[31:07] The problem with it is that I mean, like anyone who's done their research knows that in mammals, in mammals, right, uh uh excess night like reducing oxygen below uh life threshold and increasing nitrogen is a painless way to go, except that that's only if you don't know what's happening. So the person that they and by the way, my personal, you know, whatever, neither here nor there. I just I don't believe that the state should be in the business of killing people. I'm anti whatever. I just don't believe it's effective.
+
+[31:40] Whatever. That's me. Uh it's not a political show, so I'm just talking about the mechanics of it, right? But uh yeah, so the the prisoner, you know, attempted to hold his breath. And if you attempt to hold your breath, it's just as horrifying as any other being asphyxiated situation.
+
+[31:56] Anyway, uh Yeah, we tried uh we tried nitrous oxide, actually, and CO2. CO2 is the worst fish killing technique I tried. They hated it. Oh yeah, they're jumping out of the water. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[32:08] They hate it. So, like, you know, I tried, I tried that, but uh consistently uh brain spike followed in some fish cases by spinal ablation. Now, is that so your your robot locates and spikes the brain, right? It uses a computer like it uses a computer machine learning. Yep.
+
+[32:26] It looks at it, it's like brain, no. In fact, your company is called Shinkei systems, like nervous systems, you're hitting the nerve, taking it out, boom, right? Brain, no. Yep. So like how fast can you how fast can you spike these things?
+
+[32:39] Uh we can probably cycle time per fish is around 10 to 15 seconds. And what's normal kill cycle for a fish? If you're gonna actually like do it by hand this way rather than just asphyxiate them or do some sort of horrible, it's probably equivalent, like around 10 seconds. Okay. But it works all the time.
+
+[32:55] Not how like uh how many miss hits do you get on a machine versus a human? So the way that we angled it, um, and again, it'll depend on mishit. This is this is really getting to the weeds, right? But so there's like the prefrontal cortex for awareness, and then there's a motor cortex, right? Which the motor cortex because of the seizures and tightening the muscles, that's where it affects the quality.
+
+[33:12] So the way that we've angled um the way that we spike the brain with the fish is uh we prioritize hitting the motor cortex. And ideally we hit the prefrontal cortex as well. But when you hit the motor cortex, at least the fish is the limited. So there's never really a mishit from an industrial standpoint. But then if you go to a lot of the NGOs, like there's a question around like, hey, is this you know really more humane?
+
+[33:32] The fish do die much quicker, right? You know, open philanthropy gave us a uh a large grant to study side by side around, you know, doing um EEG scans, fish um, and understanding this. And that's actually how we came to this conclusion around motor versus prefrontal right. And um so we prioritize the motor, but then again, if we want to be pushing for the best standard for more humane um and like phenomenological experience for the fish, then you know, probably they need like a you know, a very big spike. You know, they're the fish brains are pretty small, but you know, between the cortexes, there's like you know, a good amount of distance that if you have a very thin spike, it can often be difficult to hit both.
+
+[34:08] So you don't use it. Because you use two spikes? You don't use one of those curved, you don't use one of those curved like uh ones where they go in and just yeah, like you know, those little mini scimitars that they've not seen those now. Yeah, yeah, the hand, well, some of the hand brain spike ones because they just go in and around like this, because they don't want to think about it, I guess. I used to work on a on a pot fishing boat very briefly, and we used to take a bat and then put a nail at the end of the bat.
+
+[34:30] Oof. And then we just you ever seen the Simpsons episode where uh Bart and the whole family is trapped in Japan for some reason. They do something terrible and they can't get back to the United States, and so they end up working as fish killing people in a f in a in a in a large fish plant and like just like like saying that style, like just dumps on them, and then Bart Simpson just goes, knife goes in, guts come out. Knife goes in, guts come out. You ever seen this?
+
+[34:56] Knife goes in, guts come out. And then he picks up a fish and it goes, I will grant you three wishes. Knife goes in, guts come out. He just keeps going. It's the best.
+
+[35:04] You gotta watch it. If you're a professional fish killer, you gotta get it. I know this is like the first time I'm hearing about it. I gotta see that. Yeah.
+
+[35:10] Um, so uh I think uh, you know, it's I don't know if the science has progressed a lot since uh I looked at it all, but um it's pretty clear that um in fish especially, uh, they go through a much harder rigor mortise if uh there's a lot of stress uh towards the end of their well, when they're being slaughtered and immediately pre-slaughter if they're freaked out. Uh uh, the faster they deplete the ATP and go into rigor, the harder the rigor mortises, and the harder the rigor mortises, the more gaping. So if you people have ever bought a salmon and there's like big gaping holes in the fillet, that sucker went through hard rigor, right? Or it was just butchered incredibly poorly, but most likely it went through hard rigor. And so like these ekajeme processes are about reducing muscle movement and loss of ATP around uh peri-slaughter time and post-slaughter.
+
+[36:01] And so uh they dramatically increase the flesh quality of meat. So uh we'll go through the salmon one that's the salmon side by salmon. Most people won't be able to see it. So you're gonna have to tell people what they're seeing. Sure.
+
+[36:12] So well, uh I'll flip this around for you so you can see as well. But this is like a normal side-by-side EKG Ma versus uh association. This is on wild porgy. And you'll see here uh relative to that, if you zoom in on the left, uh what we're looking at right now, this big red filet meat gaping in the meat. And then on the right, you have the really like um rigid meat texture.
+
+[36:32] So it's days later, right? And so you can really see a pretty big difference, especially as the time compounds. Um do you want to go through the salmon or should we uh well there yeah, so like only a few people are gonna be able to see the image. So you're gonna have to talk through it quick. But if you notice in this thing, I'm assuming the one that was asphyxiated when I was doing it, and I'm assuming this is here, it's like a lot redder because they get almost uh left blood vessel bursts and a a lot of things.
+
+[36:54] I mean, it's not, you know, it's not uh physiologically okay to die that way. Uh and there's a gen there's a a definite, I would say almost 100% across the board, every test I've ever run, there's a definite difference between zero intervention, i.e. asphyxiation, and uh proper EKGMA, but even between head bludgeoning and EKG May, there's a big difference. Right. Um have you done any tests of of uh brain spike versus just I know that you haven't automated it yet, but uh versus spinal ablation.
+
+[37:26] I don't know uh all the spinal ablation studies that I know are in larger fish like tuna, although all of my personal tests on spinal ablation are with things like fluke and um and bass. So we what we've already seen is there's such a huge difference with doing the brain spike and the gill cut and the tail cut to really get you know stop the experience of stress as well as like bleeding the meat. The spinal ablation really compounds all those benefits. So for example, with the fluke fish you mentioned, um I think we have a photo for the those um again, I know it's a podcast. But um, people can look on so people like we're gonna put the slides up and people can look at them.
+
+[38:03] But go on. I don't know where you go on, actually, John. Where do they go on to look at things uh for our podcast? Well, patreon.com slash cooking issues. There you go.
+
+[38:11] All right, yeah. Yeah. So for this we'll uh you know, it's beyond the videos, but maybe we can get Quinn to post it on the socials. Yeah. Yeah, okay, okay.
+
+[38:19] Yeah, so I mean, long and short of it, um, this is a photo, but basically you can see this is just EKG main, and then the other one is with chinkage main. And so what you'll see is basically your compound the time for rigor. So with fluke, for example, if you suffocate it, it'll go into rigor almost the same day or 24 hours. With if you EK G May. So spike the brain, cut the gills, often cut open the tail as well, you know, the heart pumps up both ends.
+
+[38:42] You can hit into go into peak rigor around three days later. And then if you do the spinal ablation, that'll be a full week later. So again, it's just compounding the benefits. But we already see in relative to suffocation, electrocution, um, we're able to really get uh pretty substantial difference for industry. And obviously the spinal ablation is probably the hardest problem around you know, EKGMA.
+
+[39:01] So EKG is like a four-part technique, right? They're collectively known as EKG May, but we actually, you know, at Shinkei, we think of um the spinal ablation as like almost, you know, you know, the four-step, uh almost a separate technique. So the first three are spike the brain, cut the gills, cut the tail, right? Spike the brain to stop any experience of stress, release cortisol, things like that. You cut the gills, cut the tail to open the both both ends of the major artery around the fish.
+
+[39:23] The heart, which is still active after brain death, will pump the blood out naturally. And so in turn, you know, when you remove the blood, so there's uh, well, if you spike the brain, so there's no experience of stress, there's no release in like cortisol and adrenaline like analogs, right? And so you have a less acidic environment, you know, lactic acid also production goes down. So you have a less acidic environment. When you have a less acidic environment, um bacteria that uh fewer bacteria grow or they grow slowly.
+
+[39:50] And then when you remove the blood, you know, oftentimes the bacteria will use that blood as nutrition. And so you, you know, by removing the blood, you starve them out. And so what happens is, you know, um, instead of suffocating, the meat actually or uh rotting and spoiling, the meat actually begins to dry age. I think dry aging is not quite though like one-to-one. I actually almost uh put it again to like fruit ripening.
+
+[40:11] Yeah, you know I don't know really know I know it's a huge thing now, but I I've never been to one of these places that actually age the fish in the humidity controlled fridges. Those are great. You know, actually for the folk that are in LA, there's a great spot called the joint where you can just go in and you know, retail some dry fish, and it's really phenomenal. Yeah. Um but those are where they hang the fish in a humidity controlled fish uh in the a fridge for a few days.
+
+[40:33] In this context, it's a little more like ripening where you're extending the time to peak ripeness, and then you know, obviously the quality after it hits right ripen, uh the full ripening capacity is so I think it's another thing that I mean probably our listeners know about, but a lot of people don't. People think of a fish, fresh, fresh. No, no, right, correct. You know, not not uh not the freshest fish, the correct time fish. You know what I mean?
+
+[40:54] The one that's you know gone through rigor and there's a definite, there's a definite, like if you know, if you eat a fish that's I mean, some cultures love fish that was killed right away. We don't, I don't, you know what I mean? Like, I don't like do you like crunchy, super fresh fish? Like, I mean, it's a thing. I I have enjoyed it, but it's not the choice I would typically make for most of the fish species that that I would eat.
+
+[41:17] So um, yeah, so this peak period. I now again, I don't know anything about this dry, I don't know about this like super extended stuff that that people are doing now. Although I did run a test once on um, you know, you know I heard of uh Randall FX fridges, unified brands. So they were one of the first people to come out with a uh a very low airflow, uh like almost like cooler style fridge that you opened up. And we we just would put uh crush ice down and fish and they kept for phenomenal lengths of time because it just wasn't a lot of drying out.
+
+[41:51] Um it's kind of mimicking like what uh you know, some of the old school you ever dealt with like the sushi chefs who'll unplug all of the fridges and just put blocks of ice in it and like put their fish in it? Oh no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that makes sense to me. Yeah.
+
+[42:03] Um I do think my POV is oftentimes for for fish, ice can be a good crux for uh or poor uh core uh poor poor crutch for for fish. The ideal environment is you have a humidity controlled low temperature, like 28 to 36 Fahrenheit fridge if you want to keep them fresh. Um the problem with if you have very aggressive um icing is you can start to get some like iced burns on the meat, the ice melts, that water in between the scales will sit, and then you know, still water becomes a cesspool, the battery will grow. And so that's oftentimes where you get a lot of that, you know, off flavors and smells around uh very fishy environments. So, what's the ideal number of days for an EKGMA salmon?
+
+[42:48] What's the what's the best day to eat one post slaughter? What do you think, Michael? Uh that's a good question. Um those are the tests we used to run. We would just do a bunch and then we would eat a little every day.
+
+[42:59] You know what I mean? Yeah. I have not uh we've done uh certainly visual and and texture trials, uh easier to quantify day by day, but um like palatability. Do you have like do you have a I would I can only guess? But it's not day one, that's for sure.
+
+[43:16] Yeah. I think when it's like probably I don't know, I'd say like day four, probably. Do you do the test? Do you do the two the two push tests? Do the push, put your finger down and bring it up.
+
+[43:26] Oh, well, with a machine, do you have the machine to do that? Oh, we have the machine, no, yeah. Oh, yeah. Uh machine that can measure the impedance, you know, and that's like supposed to be a good proxy for it. Um when we were doing the studies, I think we were looking at, you know, with suffocation uh um, which is not what Michael Virginia was doing, and they're doing like a kind of like a gill pole, which is very common and standard.
+
+[43:46] Um, when we looked at suffocation, you know, that'd be three to four days is like kind of the right amount of time to eat it. Um when you ekg me it, that time can be around like eight to nine days. Um, but really when when you pull up to one of the distributors that are carrying local coho fish that's serving many, many mission star restaurants, uh, as I've done, trying to get feedback on how the robot's working, they'll say they have a full extra day with a full extra week with the fish, uh, which for them can be very substantial given that they're taking so much logistics and distribution risk, uh given the fish is so perishable. So you get it to them right before the peak of the hump and they get to ride that little zone. And the the distribution curve of peak ripeness is a is a wider, flat flatter curve, right?
+
+[44:33] Whereas so rather than having a narrow window, like oh, you gotta eat it now if you really want to experience it the best, it's you know, it's it's uh delayed. So you have a you have a bigger window in which to enjoy peak ripeness. All right, so let's talk coho for one second. So what's another thing I think is interesting is that a lot of like, for instance, where you used to work at Ora King back when they used to do uh uh anesthesia, which by the way also makes easy, you gotta guys got it. I'm telling you, what if you just used uh clove oil but didn't call it anesthesia?
+
+[45:01] Could you do it? I think uh I I'm not sure. I you mentioned that before, and I I think I started to poke around. It's super it's super easy to make the emulsion. You don't need to buy Aque S.
+
+[45:12] You know what I mean? You can just, you know, do they even still sell Aquis out of New Zealand? Uh in Australia? Uh they might. They might.
+
+[45:19] I'm not sure. Stuff works great. Yeah. You know what I mean? And you can make your own.
+
+[45:23] I used to do it all the time. I'll go to Whole Foods, buy clove oil, you know, uh, you know, do my little marathon man speech, and then uh, you know, anesthetize uh the fish. Works great. Yeah, I think you and I talked about this. Like if you listed it as just listed as an ingredient, you know, clove oil.
+
+[45:39] It's it's grass as an ingredient, yeah, just not as a medicine. It's bizarre. We have the weirdest rules. I'm telling you, man. And you also, I know you like the flavor.
+
+[45:49] There is, by the way, people, slight flavor of clove. But it's good. Yeah. Tastes good. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[45:55] People like it. It is very appealing. And yeah, and distinctive. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[46:00] Just a little in the little background. I you need to have your lawyers look at whether you can do it as long as you don't call it anesthesia. Don't make any claims. If you don't claim that it's anesthesia, if you don't make a benefit claim that you're performing anesthesia, then, and it's not that expensive, right? I mean, I don't know how how it would fit into the um, you'd have to, I don't know what your pre-slaughter tanks are like.
+
+[46:22] But you know what I mean? It's like uh, I don't know. Yeah, it's the rules you'd have to, but it definitely makes a difference. You know? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[46:30] Interesting. And you could be the only people doing that too. And it does actually increase welfare for sure. I mean, I can't prove it because you can't prove what a fish thinks, but they're, you know, they act much more mellow. They're like visually, it's like they're just everything's okay, dude.
+
+[46:49] Like, we're all good here. You you so when you pick up a fish and you're gonna do the spike on it, right? You're gonna do the kill on the spike, like you you have to be like pretty like you have to be calm and assertive, otherwise the fish is gonna freak out, right? Right? Say if you're telling me, yeah, yeah, right.
+
+[47:07] So you need to have a certain sort of mindset as the fish killer, and still you're gonna have some times when you mess up, especially like the worst we did uh we did uh tautog, black, black. Oh my God. Like, oh my God. Like fish, though. Yeah, yeah, but not fun to try to yeah.
+
+[47:26] Anyway, if you're a worthless person like myself and don't do it every day, you know what I mean? That takes a lot of skill. Yeah. Anywho, uh, but when they're on, when they're on that clove oil, man, they're just like, all right. Okay.
+
+[47:38] You never lose a clove oil fish off the table. Does not happen. You know what I mean? Maybe make it easier for a computer to hit. Although it sounds like your computer can hit it pretty good.
+
+[47:47] Like what you never say, what's your miss rate? What is it? Like compared to a person. Much better, I'm sure. Well, well, so the the premise I was uh talking about is where if we miss, it would go a little too far back.
+
+[47:57] Then it would hit the motor cortex. Uh and then because of that, basically you still kind of get the b the the quality benefits. So we don't really experience um any misses. However, I will say uh the robot does break when uh particularly in startup when it's like calibrating. Um that uh especially earlier on when we first deployed it.
+
+[48:17] Now we we kind of have things rocking rolling or you know, we can do hundreds of fish an hour. But do you have a two hands free so that your hand doesn't get spiked? Well, as long as actually it's it's like a it's almost almost like a like a big box. And then it's uh the important thing right now is you put the fish in head first um any orientation, and then the fixed string system we designed is kind of like you know, size agnostic and space agnostic, so it kind of wraps around the animal. The um But it like it closes in almost like like a custom sluice.
+
+[48:46] Sorry. No one can see my hands, but you can't we're kind of like suctioning around the fish. All right. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[48:53] Yeah. And uh it's great, it's gravity fed. Gravity fed as well. Yeah, yeah. It's gravity fed from uh a funnel, basically.
+
+[48:59] And then it reaches its um IKG made point. Right. And yeah, there's a nose plate that stops it. Now your original one was on a was actually on a boat, which seems like a bigger pain in the butt, but they probably don't require you to have as fast a throughput as you would on land, right? Yeah.
+
+[49:13] Very, very different robot that. That was like uh, you know, six by six feet um tall, kind of like a 3D printer, which was the original idea I mocked up in my dorm room, but with a water jet. And so the theory why we want to use a water jet was you know, you can use salt water, which really, you know, you can't because you know metals corrode and the piping and things like that. Yeah, you used aluminum. Yeah.
+
+[49:33] Salt water really rough on that stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, we could have we could have made it with stainless steel, which would have been f better, but even that has a shelf light to it too. So um uh and then the fixturing system was much more manual than it was today. So we reverted back to um uh a mechanical-based system, which I we've had much more success with.
+
+[49:54] You know, shoot, shoot, shoot how how often do you have to replace the? I mean, is a spike pretty much a a lifetime Megillah. I uh probably about a month of operations. Then you but we we leave um you know all the items for Michael's team. We've got replacement spikes.
+
+[50:09] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice. Uh so uh another uh thing I thought was interesting about this is that, you know, for those of you that don't know, Koho is a relatively small salmon, right? And so usually like um these techniques in when they're done industrially or or commercially, are done on larger high value fish where there's less uh you know, uh a single operation is over a larger quantity of fish meat.
+
+[50:37] Uh and so it's you know, I mean, obviously, uh, you know, at whatever they call it Sakiji now, like they're doing, you know, these techniques on smaller fish constantly, but not on a commercial/slash industrial scale. So it's interesting that you're bringing it using the uh the automation allows you to bring it to a smaller fish species than let's say tuna or one of the larger salmon. Well, the end goal for the robot is we're about three something seconds uh per fish in uh in one lane, and then of course multi-lane system. So the intention is that we have many lanes, each one running about a thousand fish an hour. So then you can just stack them all together if they're modular, and in turn you can reach those industrial throughputs.
+
+[51:14] Because 250 is, you know, I think okay, uh manageable for you know, medium-sized, maybe smaller farm, but when you're going to like, you know, these guys are doing like hundreds of millions of fish, you know, every year. It's um for that you do need like faster throughput. This is one reason we've been Shinke and Local Coho has been a good partnership is we're both the right size for each other. Yeah, we're both right size, yeah, right. Exactly.
+
+[51:37] You know, young, small uh startup companies. Uh we're not harvesting, you know, millions or even thousands of fish every week. It's pretty small number. Um uh we deployed their 2.0 uh Shinke system and they're working on their 4.0. So it's like we're kind of what happened to three kind of growing and deploy three.
+
+[51:57] Yeah. Spike goes in, brain comes out. Spike goes in, brain comes out. All right. Uh Michael, I think most of these questions are are for you.
+
+[52:05] So Jacob P writes in um I think uh RAS, which is recirculating uh aquaculture system. Uh systems are an important piece of fixing the largely unsustainable seafood industry. Here are my questions uh for Michael and Safe. Why focus on Coho over other species such as uh Chinook slash king, sake, or rainbow trout? One.
+
+[52:26] Uh and since you are focusing on uh recirculation, have you looked at integrating this with hydroponics to create an aquaponic system to take advantage of the full nitrogen cycle? And I guess the answer is what do you do with all your extra nitrogen? I'm assuming you have biofilters coming out of your your ears. And uh are you able, and I'm curious about this, to share your feed conversion ratio uh off uh off of what you like, you know, for for those of you who don't know, like classic like people think people want to know is inputs versus outputs. One of the main inputs is food.
+
+[52:58] Obviously, there's other inputs in a recirculating system like uh electricity and all these other things, but you want to take a take some brain stabs at these? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um so the first one was species choice, I think, right? Yeah. So uh we chose Coho for a few different reasons.
+
+[53:15] Uh one, uh it's a salmon that does well in fresh water. So that is important. We wanted a species that thrived or you know, could live a healthy full life cycle in fresh water. Kings also do well in freshwater, by the way. Um, some of the old auras were all fresh, right?
+
+[53:32] And some of them. Yeah, like you've heard you've heard of the Tai, or King Tai, which is like their um big old super luxury, you know, uh 30 pound plus salmon. Those are all grown in fresh water. Uh so uh so certain salmon do well in freshwater. Cohos do well.
+
+[53:49] Uh cohes also have a relatively um compared to some other salmon, quicker life cycle. How old is how old's a harvested? Uh it should be about 18 months versus, you know, up to say 36 for an Atlantic salmon and I kind of forget what the aura kangs. I think they were about 30 months. So 18, you know, that's a shorter life cycle.
+
+[54:10] So there's some like kind of commercial and economic benefits to that. Um they taste good. Like cohos are well respected salmon. There's basically three, I consider three premium Pacific species that people really seem to like. Kings, sockeyes, and cohos.
+
+[54:28] Uhos. We definitely wanted to avoid the Atlantic salmon as a species because that's really the commodity player in the salmon market. It's not really the fish's fault, though. It's not the fish's fault. You're right.
+
+[54:39] But we know we're trying to be a little more of a um about chums. It's such a bad name. No one's gonna want to eat chum. Yeah, they got a name problem. You know, the old CEO at uh New Zealand King Salmon, he used to like, he'd be like, thank God it's called King.
+
+[54:55] Yeah, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like my marketing is done for me. Yeah. And what do you eat in chum?
+
+[55:01] Yeah, yeah, yeah. So all right. Um so that okay, so that was species, and then uh what was the next one? Uh it was uh have you looked into integrating hydroponics, growing other things like plants and whatnot to fix the nitrogen and use it for a separate source of income. Yeah, uh we have not.
+
+[55:21] It it does exist. It's it's really two separate businesses, and and it's hard to align scales. Um, because you need like, you know, um uh you have a huge huge uh say lettuce production for a small salmon production. It's hard to align scales. You need the right amount of lettuce for the right amount of salmon.
+
+[55:43] What are you gonna do? That's that's right. Yeah. What are you gonna do? Yeah, so it's a much needs to serve a salad and salmon.
+
+[55:49] Really, oh sorry, no salad today. That's right. You know, everyone has to eat 10 pounds of uh lettuce for two ounces of salmon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that what it is?
+
+[55:57] Is that is that I I uh don't I don't know if that's the exact ratio, but it's Michael Favreau said. Didn't a farm in Brooklyn try this out? There's there's a there's a successful one small, again, small, because this is a young, nascent industry, this ras industry. But there's one in Wisconsin. How do they call it in the biz?
+
+[56:14] RAS? Yeah, Ras. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[56:13] All right. There's one in Wisconsin. Uh they're called Superior Fresh. Yeah. Are they?
+
+[56:24] Uh fresh or superior? Either. I don't know. I don't know. These two.
+
+[56:30] I've actually their salmon yet, actually. All right. All right. Try the competitors. Don't be like these pizza people that don't eat other people's pizza.
+
+[56:36] I love trying. I love doing side by sides. I love it. But they're doing pretty well. And they've been around a while.
+
+[56:43] But it's a it's a very, it's a much more complicated business, a lot much more capital intensive. It's already a capital-intensive business to start with. Right. Requires a lot of, you know, a lot of money up front. Um so we just, you know, we wanted to focus on this the salmon or the fish side of it.
+
+[56:59] Um as far as capturing effluent or fish waste, we're not quite at this stage yet. When we build our larger farm, uh there's gonna be some more bells and whistles, and one thing we will do is build in the capacity to capture the fish waste. Um, and then that becomes it's it's a ready-to-go organic fertilizer. Yeah, I mean, it's just nitrogen up nitrogen, nitrogen, nitrogen stuff. Yeah.
+
+[57:26] And like we're in we're in the farm country up in central New York. Like there's a home for all this. Yeah. Yeah, I think most of those uh double systems of plants like are most successful on cottage scale kind of situations, like someone doing it for them, like for small communities and for themselves, right? Not on an industrial level, or I i it seems to be at least so far.
+
+[57:45] You know, maybe 20 years from now be a different story. I don't know if someone will figure it out. Now, your feed conversion ratio, are you willing to talk about it? Yeah, uh I will, but I I'm gonna And what percentage of the food is fish-based food, like fish meal, fish oil? Well, that's what I want to talk more about fish in, fish out.
+
+[58:01] Fish in, fish out, I love it. It's five, it's the new FIFO people. It's the new FIFO. For you accountants, this is the the more fun version of FIFO. Yeah.
+
+[58:08] Um so yeah, feed conversion ratio is just how many pounds of feed do you feed a salmon over its lifetime to get uh a pound uh of harvested fish? And it doesn't ever consider like, well, what's in the feed? It's it's just pounds of feed. Um so it's it's an interesting, it's an important metric for the producer, particularly because it has commercial implications, like you know, and a lot of sustainability people are worried about growing one plant to feed if if it's not fish-based, if it's plant-based, right? They're interested in like, you know, why are you growing a billion pounds of whatever to make a cow, right?
+
+[58:44] So they do care about non-fish-based foods, but I think in your business, fish inputs are the big whooping. That's the big one, right? So, like, you know, if you're gonna farm fish, you you know, gotta kill fish to grow fish. It seems kind of counterintuitive if you're gonna grow 10 pounds of fish to go use a hundred pounds of wild fish. Right, right.
+
+[59:02] So what's the number? Because I only have two minutes left. I gonna write. Our number is zero. You zero fish?
+
+[59:07] Zero. So where are you getting the oils from? Because they don't make their own. Algae oil. Algae oil, algae oil, and who's growing the algae oil?
+
+[59:14] Uh Vera Maris. Nice. So zero. And then so how many pounds of stuff does it take? Just so people know.
+
+[59:21] Is it like is it like I know like chickens like under two? Is it like 20 or is it? Oh, FCR? Yeah. Uh, you know, we haven't hit we haven't hit our target growth curve yet.
+
+[59:30] So we're supposed to grow them in 18 months. It's been taking longer. So our FCRs are kind of out of whack. Right. We want to.
+
+[59:36] What should it be? What's too good target? Uh geez. I think it's like 1.5. Oh, good.
+
+[59:40] Yeah. Good. Uh and uh a lot of people are worried about the one of the things people worry about is uh inputs of things like electricity and whatnot. Um you're you're re-circulating the water. But uh I'm I'm assuming there's ways to ameliorate that, but before we go, I want to talk about Jasmin and uh other taint stuff.
+
+[59:57] How do you prevent that stuff from getting into your systems and putting taint in? And also, because we're gonna rip me off the air here, is that fresh water versus salt water with the free amino acids in the fish getting the flavor profile. Have you ever considered going brackish, or is it just technologically too difficult to do recirculating inland brackish uh system? Yeah, a lot of questions. Uh off-flavors like Josmin, um, it exists in recirculating freshwater systems.
+
+[1:00:23] You need to have a finishing stage. So we have a finishing pool or finishing tank where the fish will live for a week. They'll go off bead, and then we have some technology that basically um uh through oxidation is killing. I think you can ozone the hell out of the the water as it goes through, right? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[1:00:40] And so that's removing the geosmond and the two MIB. Yeah. Uh what is it, methyl iso I had to write it down. Something uh methyl iso, I forget. Something, yeah.
+
+[1:00:50] Yeah, yeah. Um so that and that and that works. Like uh the fish quality is really good. You don't get any off flavors if you do this well. You and you get it, you know uh clean, mild, uh, but also savory.
+
+[1:01:02] Yeah, what about what about uh what about brackish? Is no one do no one's gonna do brackish too complicated? I I think it would be difficult. It yeah, it sounds like it's complicated from uh water filtration and and maintaining fish appetite. Um because we find that the more clean and pure and less particles are in the water, the fish eat better.
+
+[1:01:25] Um and again, you want them to eat because you want them to grow. Do you hand feed or do you have some sort of computer to make sure that they're eating all the crap? Uh it's we have a little, there's a little like uh I thought a picture of someone going and throwing some food inside. That's like for a show and say, hey, look at look at the fish. Uh it's pretty automated, right?
+
+[1:01:43] They'll come to the surface and they'll eat. But yeah, it's automated. There's um feeders above each uh tank and it's on a uh timer, and you kind of adjust your period always adjusting, you know, um, to try to get the right feed and match their appetite levels. Uh seasonality, it's another thing that impacts feed. All right.
+
+[1:02:01] Well, listen, we're gonna put some of these things up on our socials. Uh Michael Fabro and uh Safe Kawaja, thanks for coming on talking about killing fish and growing fish uh and the new movement towards ras aquaculture, which uh we appreciate. Obviously, there's more to talk about. Maybe we'll have you back sometime. Uh on the way out, do I have two seconds, uh Joe?
+
+[1:02:22] Quick. All right. Kevin McHugh wants to know is there a way to de acidulate a juice so as to make a lemon thing with no acid. You can get very, very mild uh sodium hydroxide lye solutions. You can pre-buy them to known molarities.
+
+[1:02:36] And maybe Quinn can put a I'll put a calculator for you of how much to add to X amount of lemon juice to neutralize it. But let me tell you in advance, it tastes bad. When you neutralize wines, they taste terrible. When you neutralize juice, they taste real bad. Thanks for coming on, guys.
+
+[1:02:52] Thank you for having us. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. Yeah.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan at Rockefeller Center, New York City News Dance Studios, joined behind me with uh Joe Hazen rocking the panels. How you doing? I'm doing well. Yeah?
+
+[0:23] Yeah. Yeah. Better now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we're starting a little bit, a little bit late today because the phones decided to be problematic.
+
+[0:30] Yeah, I'm so sorry. I had to get the phone operator on the phone to reset whatever is going on in somewhere in Connecticut. And it's uh we're back in live. It's nice to know that there's still an operator somewhere. He drove.
+
+[0:41] He was in the car. He pulled off to the side of the road. Reset the server. Safety first, pull off. I like that.
+
+[0:47] Uh joined also as usual with uh John. How you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yeah? Yeah.
+
+[0:51] You're wearing your your Kent shirt in honor of uh Chef David Boole, who passed last week. Yeah, he died in Kent. He's from Kent, I think. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[1:00] Yeah. Sure, true. Yeah, sad. Set. Yeah.
+
+[1:02] Uh over there in Vancouver, we got Quinn. How you doing? Vancouver Island, please. Oh, okay. Yeah.
+
+[1:09] I know you're a mainland hater. There's nothing you hate more than the mainland. Like you're the other one. I love the mainland. I love the mainland.
+
+[1:15] I'll tell you why later. Oh. Wow. All right. Okay.
+
+[1:22] I like a secret love of the mainland. Sweet. Uh down there in, I think you're in California, Jackie Molecules. How you doing? Yes, I am.
+
+[1:30] I'm good. Nice, nice. Uh, and Nastasia the Hammer Lopez in Los Angeles with special West Coast guest, friend, longtime friend, actual friend and friend of the show, Ariel Johnson, repping her new book, Flavorama, which comes out officially, I think, next month. Is that true? Yeah, it comes out March 12th.
+
+[1:50] Yeah. Yeah, it's a day before my dad's birthday. How about that? Not related. Happy birthday, Dave's dad.
+
+[1:55] Yeah, yeah. And it's uh, I believe the 13th, which is my dad's birthday. Isn't that also the Ides of March, the big stabbing day, everyone's favorite day of stabbing? Yeah. Is that true?
+
+[2:05] I think it might be. I believe so. Yeah. So are you gonna have like a giant a giant like I'm not yet stabbed party on the 12th? Are you gonna be in New York City on the 12th when it comes out?
+
+[2:13] Or are you gonna be in California? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, um, I'll be in New York City. Uh I'm I have some events planned. I don't think they're announced yet, but they will be soon.
+
+[2:27] Um and uh yeah, I know we talked about coming back on the show. So uh I'd love to do that. Yeah. Yeah, just don't stab me. Just don't come the day.
+
+[2:35] Yeah, don't yeah. Well, it's the wrong day. So if it was a Wednesday show, then I would have to stab you, but since it's Tuesday, then we're all in the clear. Yeah, yeah, awesome. Sweet.
+
+[2:43] So I think March is the 15th, actually. Oh, the 15th? Yeah. Uh well, you know, it's just fine. I think nowadays, look, it's been a couple thousand years.
+
+[2:51] I think like you can have like a whole week of stabbing, like a week's festivities of stabbing. Why not? Yeah. Yeah. It's like uh like wedding thing used to be the bride's special day, but now it's like a special week.
+
+[3:02] Yeah, special. Oh my god, weddings uh thank God. Like I got married so long ago and when I was so young, because now, yeah, weddings like they last forever now. They last forever. At my wedding.
+
+[3:14] Well, yeah and day. You did it the right. You you did it the right way. You did it the right way. You didn't like, you know, turn yourself into a pauper and like all of your friends at the same time having to spend a billion dollars to do anything.
+
+[3:26] That was the smart way. No, I think the most expensive part of it was about thirty dollars worth of donuts that we brought. Yeah. The city hall. It was that was nice for anyone I don't know if you remember remember this, but I forget where we went afterwards, but I had a giant black eye because I had just gotten back from Spain where I had yeah.
+
+[3:44] Yeah, I'd run into a glass wall at high speed, and I had a huge black eye, and somehow also a giant foam fist. And somebody made me hold my champagne flute in my giant foam fist with my giant black eye. I don't know if there's any photographic of it. Yeah. That should be maybe, you know, we should put that on the uh on our socials.
+
+[4:06] Yeah. I looked awesome. My eye has never been quite the same. Maybe that's why I have such bad night vision. Probably not, though.
+
+[4:13] The doctors can't figure it out. Anyway, uh also uh in the studio today, we have uh, you know, you know, here in the New York studio, special guest, Patreon uh member, longtime listener. Nick from the net Nick Webster, also from Toronto. So this is a Canadian mainland. Maybe you and Quinn can get uh together and talk about it.
+
+[4:30] Yeah, get the deets on his current love of the mainland. How are you doing, Nick? Good, doing well. Yeah, yeah. And the reason you're on the show today is that a couple of weeks ago, or maybe a month ago, uh Joe Hazen was like, you know what, I really want this fancy special marmite.
+
+[4:44] So why don't you guys talk about that? Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead, Joe. Um yeah, well, welcome to the show, Mr. Nick Webster.
+
+[4:52] And uh we've been corresponding via text message after uh John over here gave me the info. Uh we put out a red alert to anyone who was over in the UK and coming back to the States. And um we were looking for a I was looking for a particular marmite, the Elton John version of Marmite. We did recently an interview with Ann Asslit from the Elton John AIDS Foundation, um, probably about six months ago. And um, she had told me that this was going on that Elton John's doing all these special commemorative uh pieces, and Marmate happens to be one of them.
+
+[5:25] And my wife is British. She is a huge marmite fan. She is the not veggie might fan, but a marmaid fan. And um Nick was um kind enough to bring one back. And um I'm looking at it right here.
+
+[5:37] Stunning. You can maybe show that over the side. Yeah, so uh real quick. So what's what's the here, Joe? Uh John, you do that.
+
+[5:44] Uh what's the difference between like an Elton John style of marmite and a regular and are you an Ite or an eat? Marmite, marmite, marm this. Okay. Is it like the pan? Is it named after the is it named after the the the pot?
+
+[5:59] I I don't know. I I think it's marmite. That's what I've heard, but I'm not sure. And what is an Elton John marmite do that a regular one does not do? Limited dish.
+
+[6:08] That's it. Yeah, that's it. So like uh I don't know if you know this, but Yellow Brick Road. Queen Elizabeth came out with a ketchup and then died shortly after. You think that's what's happening with uh Elton John here?
+
+[6:18] The curse. Condiment curse. The condiment curse. Wow. And I don't know whether it was uh the English sparkling wine, you know how like with global warming now the English can make sparkling wine again.
+
+[6:28] And she came out with one of those, and I don't know whether it was the sparkling wine or the ketchup that killed her. But I'm gonna call it the condiment curse, and I'm calling Elton John, he's got a year and a half. Well, it's funny because like how many how many final tours has that guy done? Yeah, there's been a quite a few final tours. One of them's gotta be real.
+
+[6:46] He might be dead. It might be. Might be. Uh he might be. My my stepmom's a huge fan, she would be sad.
+
+[6:53] I guess I mean, I'll be sad. I like Elton John Elton John good, I mean, not my shtick, but like, you know, great musician. Yeah, good song right here. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, talented.
+
+[7:01] Yeah. Yeah, very much. Uh hey, Nastasia, you're gonna enjoy this. Uh Nick Webster is into the theater, musical theater. Uh not so much, but a little bit, yeah.
+
+[7:11] Yeah. What are you? One of those uh like Dafoe kind of uh off Broadway Dafoe people, like no, it's like uh it's uh it's a mi yeah, a mix. I'll do whatever. But like experimental, like Foreman style stuff, like George Foreman, good, very good.
+
+[7:25] Um a little bit. Yeah, yeah, that's for Richard. George Foreman is the grill guy. Yeah, Richard Foreman and Richard Foreman is the experimental theater actor. And I I saw two of his pieces.
+
+[7:35] Richard Foreman uh at La Mama, though, right? That was his theater. And I saw two of his performances. The first one I went to and I was like, oh, it's my fault that I don't understand. Yeah.
+
+[7:45] And the second one I went to, I was like, I'm good. Yeah. I'm good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've been to a Richard Foreman show too.
+
+[7:52] And what do you think? What do you think? Same as you. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[7:56] Same, same, same reaction, yeah. Yeah, but I still think it was me, but I I'm like, I'm good. It's me. And then I was told I'm uh one of my kids was going out, uh was going to um school, and one of the parents was a uh is an experimental theater actor. And she was like, Yeah, there's like all different kinds of experimental theater, and you just need to keep going to it till you find the kind that you that talks to you.
+
+[8:20] You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right?
+
+[8:23] Totally. So what kind do you like to do? Well, I um I saw actually I saw a play on Saturday, and um it was a super experimental, one man show. This guy um chugged three diet cokes in the span of like 45 seconds. I call that like Tuesday.
+
+[8:40] Yeah, that's normal. Well, it used to be back before I was a seltzer guy. Yeah. I once drank a two liter bottle of Diet Coke in under two minutes. Wow.
+
+[8:47] Not because it was a bet. I was thirsty. Yeah, totally. So you might you might have found some kinship with this with this actor. Well, what was the what was the artistry behind it?
+
+[8:56] Did it choke them? No. Okay. Didn't choke them. They just drop the cans, like well, listen.
+
+[8:59] I think they're listening when you're when you're pounding something real hard, you need to crush the can before you drop it. Did they crush the can? They uh he um what's the call? Shotgunning shotgun, yeah. So he did that, and then I think it was sort of it was sort of destroyed.
+
+[9:15] You said it was a diet coke, correct? Diet, yeah. It is very foamy, more difficult than a beer. Sprayed over the audience. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[9:21] Yeah. But so, like, since there is a long history of shotgunning beers in this country, uh, for those of you that don't know, you uh you take a key, you uh turn you you need a uh uh a can with a pull tab, you turn the can uh on its side, and there is an art to it to get the pull tab in the right spot so that you're not uh looking uncomfortable when you do it. You take your key and you push into the bottom of the can with the key facing it up like it's a flute. You guys with me so far? And uh, you know, make a decent size hole, but your mouth has to seal around it, or it's very gauche to drip some.
+
+[9:57] Very gauche. You then plant your face over the hole, reach over, grab the pull tab, lift your whole face as you pull the tab up, and you suck that whole thing in, then you crush the can, and you throw the can, and it has to all be one motion. Pull like lift your face, pull tab, beer in crush can gone. One motion, preferably before anyone can say anything or think, right? And how good you are at it, it depends on how far you've pushed the key down towards the base, because if you don't push the key all the way down towards the base, there's always a little bit left in the bottom, and then when you throw the can, there's a long line of beer and or Diet Coke between you and where the can ends up, you know, 15, 20 feet away, and that's how you're judged.
+
+[10:42] Bad habit though, you shouldn't be shotgunning beers. Uh, you really shouldn't. Uh yeah. So uh so basically this was a Diet Coke shotgunning three-minute performance? No, uh, it was about an hour.
+
+[10:55] Oh, the how many Diet Cokes did the guy do? Just three in the span of yeah, in the span of a minute. And then there was lots of spaghetti eating as well. Oh. Microwave hot spaghetti.
+
+[11:04] Very strange. Who's I wish I could actually remember the name of it? Who's that comedian who, uh, physical comedian that Nastasia Paul Shore called up, and then we looked him up. Do you remember his name? The guy who just would throw spaghetti in his face?
+
+[11:16] No, no, I don't remember. No. Yeah, and so he would just sit, put on some sort of pre-Jim Carrey, crazy Jim Carrey face. They would play some sort of like semi-offensive fake Italian music, and he would just like throw spaghetti at his face. Remember this, Stas?
+
+[11:31] We looked it up. Yeah, I know. I don't remember who it is. All right. So it was a food-based experimental performance involving spaghetti and Diet Coke.
+
+[11:40] Yes. I don't know about spaghetti and Diet Coke as a combo. Red sauce? Red sauce. Okay.
+
+[11:45] Yeah. All right. All right. Okay. Uh.
+
+[11:50] So what do you guys got? Now we we're back on the time where we talk about what we've had this past week. I was in Phoenix last week, and I went to a place called Fry Bread House House. I think it was Fry Bread House, and guess what they make? Fry bread, and then they put like they treat it almost like uh something to put other things on.
+
+[12:08] So, of course, we ordered some plain fry bread and you know, and then fried bread with all kinds of different stuff on it. However, also, you know, Phoenix is like the Sonoran Desert, so that's where the world's greatest wheat for flour tortillas is grown, is in Sonora. And so everybody's flour tortilla, not everybody, but the places that where we went, specifically floor for flour tortillas had a ridiculous flour tortilla game, just like fresh with butter, right? Just give me the tortilla fresh with butter. And some like mixed corn flour tortillas we had that were also excellent, right?
+
+[12:40] So we went to a place called Horseshoe Cafe that does like a dried beef, uh machach, I think it's called. That's like, I was like, is it like Sesina, which is the dried beef that I'm used to up here, but it's really much more finely shredded, almost like uh pork floss, but beef. Yeah. And dried, and then like mixed in with eggs or mixed in with potatoes, and then on there, like really good game, handmade tortillas. And I'm gonna go ahead and say, good.
+
+[13:06] I'm gonna go ahead and say that was good. Uh, but the fry bread house, so we're there for fry bread. I look in the back, and there's this uh person in the back, she's like my age, right? So, like, you know, no business standing behind a stove all day long anymore. And I look up and it looks like she's got a tablecloth in her hands, right?
+
+[13:25] And she's just going bam, bam, bam with her forearms, like that cross, boom, boom, boom, boom, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And I was like, what the hell is she doing? And she was making giant flower tortillas the old school way with her forearms. These things were like over two feet across, freaking perfect disc, no press, no nothing. And I was like, oh yeah.
+
+[13:51] Oh, we're getting one of those. You know what I mean? And so like that one again, they're like, oh yeah, yeah, she's making these things. If they had a special name for this format of tortilla, which I forget started with like a CH or something like that, like something like chum chum chum something, huge. And I was like, yeah, please.
+
+[14:08] Please. You know what I mean? No pins, no nothing. And uh that thing came out with butter, and we were all like you know what I mean? Like fresh, because like when they sit around, not as good, but you know, they specifically just brought us one, you know, right off the right off the, you know, I think they weren't using a regular Kamal, they were using a like a standard, I think, grid griddle flat top, but uh, you know, I think that that's fine.
+
+[14:32] Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and say fine. Yeah, you know what I mean? Anyway, so good stuff in Phoenix. Nice. Yeah.
+
+[14:37] Good. Although Phoenix is a crap ton bigger than it used to be. Phoenix is freaking huge. So it's like it used to be like it hadn't fully spread out to fill every nook around the center, because I was hoping to actually see some desert. And we saw like, you know, the odd Suaro at the airport, uh, you know, at Sky Harbor, but it wasn't like, you know, back in the you know, 90s when I used to go.
+
+[15:02] And I forgot to ask the uh bartender so I was speaking to. I was like, I wonder what the etiquette is of stealing street citrus in Arizona. There is citrus, there is citrus everywhere to be stolen. But what's the etiquette? I know what Nastasia thinks, right, Sas.
+
+[15:19] Yeah, I mean it's everywhere out here too. Yeah, and you but you believe in stealing it, right? I don't think it's stealing it, but okay. Well, you you believe you're a scrumper, you believe in citrus scrumping. You're you think it's fine that the citrus is for all, but would you step onto someone's property to scrump their citrus, or is it have to be over the edge of the fence or on the edge of their property?
+
+[15:42] Oh, I don't know. I uh over the over the fence. What did you and Jack do? We didn't steal anything. I didn't ask, I didn't have time.
+
+[15:49] I was just there for like one day. I didn't even go back to the neighborhood where I know the entire street. Now when the street's lined with citrus, I'm taking that. I mean, the municipality does sell that citrus for marmalade. Hell with them.
+
+[16:02] You know what I mean? I'm sorry. If it's out there on the street that that's mine. Oh that's mine. Oh boy, that's mine.
+
+[16:08] Anyway. Uh all right. So uh what else what what do you got? That's that's what I got for the week. What do you guys got?
+
+[16:14] I went to Hearth finally in this village. Wow. Delicious that's an oldie? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[16:20] Yeah. Yeah, no, good they're having a bunch of veals. Yeah. Had a bunch of veal specials that were really nice. I got in like half a kef the other week and just a bunch of awesome stuff with it.
+
+[16:31] Had a really good veal porter house. So what when they say veal what do they mean? How like how pink was it versus how it had a little more color to it than you know being super pink. Um but it was just really flavorful, really tender. It was done on the wood grill there and it was just spot on.
+
+[16:50] Came with some beans and some wilted escroll. Imagine if it wasn't done on that if they if they're like here we panned this. Yeah. Um but yeah would highly recommend if no one has been there yet I'm ashamed that it's taken me so long to go. Yeah well it's only been there your whole life I know of course I I'm not one to talk.
+
+[17:12] That's okay. Yeah. Uh what about you guys over there on the other coast what do you got? Uh I got something or should we let the California crew go first. It matters little to me.
+
+[17:26] Oh bad. Okay well let's pretend it's it was for celebrating recovering from COVID. But really on the mainland, uh in an area called Langwee outside of Vancouver, there is a farm that was cultivating uh white Italian truffles, and we were on the waiting list. And last week we got them. Okay, so uh do you what's the name of the place?
+
+[17:58] Uh Below the Oak Farm. Below the Oak, not below the oak, below below the oak. Below. Below underneath underneath the oak farm. All right.
+
+[18:09] And how how how were they? Well, I mean, they were really good. I mean, they were between being underground and getting to us like three to four days. How big are they? They were pretty small.
+
+[18:25] We got 84 grams worth. There was like a bunch of you know medium to small small guys. Mm-hmm. You need we so like you need to have them set up a a side by side. You know what I mean?
+
+[18:41] By the way, you want to hear stupid? No offense to them, but like I'm in the airport going to Phoenix, and who ha you know those new machines that'll sell you anything like cake? They're like, oh, you know what I'm in an airport. I need a slice of cake. You know what I'm talking about?
+
+[18:55] And they have a video monitor and they do it? Urbani truffle. Now, why first of all, God forbid somebody opens that up on the plane and we're all like, oh you know what I mean? Because like I told you I was triggered because I had to share a train ride with a decomposing truffle once, and it was a nightmare. And uh black truffle though, you know, uh French.
+
+[19:14] And um so why would I want first of all the number of truffles that come from New York is on the order of zero. So, like, why would I buy in the New York City airport truffles to take on the airplane? It doesn't make any dang sense at all. There's gotta be so much waste. Who's who is who is doing that?
+
+[19:34] Urbani, yeah. They're famous. I mean, who's buying it? Yeah. I don't know.
+
+[19:38] That's my question. Urbani, are you making money at this? I'm sure I'm the idiot. Usually when I look at something and I'm like, this is stupid, like email. I remember the first time I saw email, I was like, this is stupid, never gonna go anywhere.
+
+[19:50] Usually I'm the idiot. You know what I mean? And I saw it like very, very early because I knew some you know hardcore computer freak shows. What do you say, Stas? Oh no, it's RL.
+
+[20:01] Email is awful and sucks and should not have taken off. I know, but it did. It did. I know the everyone's sensible chagrin. I was like, I was like, this will never surplant the fax machine.
+
+[20:18] Maybe the airport truffle is just for shaving on your airport food before you go. But that's in any event, it's a night. I don't want truffle to be any part of my airport experience. You know what I mean? Yeah, well, I'm ready there.
+
+[20:32] Yeah, like my idea of a nightmare, like truffle oil, like like even the amount that's allowed in your toiletry bag would be enough to make the entire plane ride a living nightmare. Miserable. You know what I mean? Oh my god, I am so glad that we are past that point in culinary world when like everyone dumps truffle oil all over everything. God, yeah.
+
+[20:54] Truffle oil. You know what I mean? Yeah, 100%. I even like I have relatives who really like that the cheese with the truffle shavings in it. And and I can take it, but I'm like, oh man.
+
+[21:05] Nope. Oh man. Yeah. I went to Oregon. I don't mind.
+
+[21:11] That's that's the best. That's the best for me. Everything's better than the oil. Yeah. I'm not saying it's a yeah.
+
+[21:20] What do you say, Ariel? What what's going on? Like probably even more than you can, to the point where like if it comes in something that comes into our house and we throw it away, like we have to take out the trash because the smell is like too much for him. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[21:38] Smart. Smart. Yeah. It's like uh it shouldn't be legal. It's a nightmare.
+
+[21:45] What's the what's the what's the compound of note in the fake truffle oil? I shouldn't know that, but I don't know it off the top of my head. Do you know why you don't know it? Because you've blocked it out and you're never gonna use it. There's no reason for you to know it.
+
+[22:00] You know what I mean? That's like, oh I don't know this thing that's horrible I'm never gonna use. Good. Yeah. I'm sorry I asked you.
+
+[22:08] Because uh yeah, yeah. Well we're two Ford I thaia pentane. Ugh. Which is I will point out only one of the many aroma compounds and actual white truffles. Uh so like throwing artificial white truffle oil over everything is like using like imitation vanilla extract on top of your like fancy dessert.
+
+[22:29] Did you say that the that the uh base chain was uh was an alkane, a pentane? Yeah, oh dye thy pentane. So um it's a pentane, but then it's got two uh sulfur molecules sticking off of it. Uh so it's uh so it's like a a hydrocarbon with some stinky sulfur stuck to it? Yes.
+
+[22:49] Yeah. Oh no, actually, my bad. Um, it's as if it were pentane, so like a linear alkane, but then two of the two of what would be carbon in the chain are actually sulfur molecules. Even more skullduggery Ariel. It's like carbon, sulfur, carbon, sulfur, carbon.
+
+[23:10] Yeah. No thanks. No thanks. Well, the real ones were great. Well, you were doing white, you said.
+
+[23:16] You're doing white anyway. Like uh you remember when I went to Oregon and I had those Oregon truffles, Nastasia with uh Judy and Wu? Yeah. And McGee and all that. Yeah.
+
+[23:29] So like they were ripping those. And the problem with those is I think they're very good, the Oregon truffles, but they're not the same. So like I think the the issue is I think that they deserve to exist, but they're not, you know what I mean? You're not gonna spend eight billion dollars to have one shaved over your eggs. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[23:47] By the way, have we already done this? Have we already gone over our scrambled egg feelings before? No. No. Let's do it.
+
+[23:54] All right, let's do it. I like I like, I appreciate all scrambled eggs. I like the American style where some of it's under and some of it's over, kind of like big messed up curds. Who here likes uh really hard scrambled, who likes them like what like what I like, and who likes the tiny, constantly stirred French style. Oh my god, John.
+
+[24:21] It's not my favorite, but I do really enjoy it, but I do prefer softer style scrambled eggs. Yeah. That's what you're saying, Quinn? I go I go soccer style. Also, you know like ridiculously plenty curds.
+
+[24:33] Although again, uh, depending on who's working with me, I usually go for a friend omelet. You know, I'm beaten eggs anyway. Yeah, I like it when there's a little bit of the weird white left over, so I get that textural difference. No I mean a little bit like maybe a little bit of browning on somewhere and hit the pan too hot. That's my jam.
+
+[24:54] I like but I like the browning. I mean, I I I kind of either like not like tiny tiny curds, but like soft, you know, fancy stuff, or like stuff cooked, it's almost going to split, but it doesn't. Oh w what are your feelings on uh what'd you say, Stas? I not tell me, L RL. Yeah.
+
+[25:18] I like it hard. Ah yeah. Yeah. I like it hard. I like that.
+
+[25:26] Uh what about with hard-boiled eggs? You like do you do you guys like your poached eggs like super runny? Are you more like sixty-three folks, sixty-two folks if you remember what those are like? As long as the white is cooked, I'm happy with all poached eggs. So you don't like a s you don't like a snotty white.
+
+[25:42] You're an anti-snotty white. I don't I don't I don't like a sous vide unbeaten egg. A sous vide unbeaten egg. Like if you just throw a whole egg and a C Vid, I do not like the texture results that you usually get. I love that.
+
+[25:59] So easy. Although n although now like what I typically do, uh you know, because I'm not holding eggs for a long time anymore. So like when I learned, I don't know how many years ago when I learned that you could just crack all of your eggs into a bowl and just dump them in one big fell swoop into the water and that they don't stick together. When I learned that, I was like, oh yeah. Hell yeah.
+
+[26:22] You know what I mean? Ten eggs, sh boom, sheboygan, done. You know what I mean? But that's only when you're doing them, you know, and you you're gonna serve them all at the same time. Also, I'll say this.
+
+[26:34] When I make shaksu shak su shak souk uh shack shakshuka Shaksuka. Shakshuka. When I make that which I make Shakshuka, when I make that quite often, I don't put the egg into the tomato goop. I poach the eggs and serve them on the side. Please, people, please.
+
+[26:53] Unless you're serving individual Shakshukas. Uh me, me, me, me, me, me. Yes, I am. Yes, I am, Quinn. Yes, I am.
+
+[27:02] Uh I disagree. You could disagree all you want. Liminal space rare like egg white mixing with some of the tomato. Okay, you're allowed to have your own incorrect opinion. You know what I mean?
+
+[27:18] Like that's fine. What? All I'm saying is that whenever I'm guessing you haven't tried it. Okay. So uh everyone that I've ever served it to, because I have cooked it both ways, is like, oh my god, this is so refreshing, because I can have as much egg and as much shakshuka as I want, and I get to portion it the way that I want to.
+
+[27:41] Yeah. Sure, it's a delicious dish from dress or eggs. What? So how demented are you that you think the egg is the primary part of the shaksuka? The egg is a sauce for the tomato, my friend.
+
+[27:56] Well, Dave, I think that it I think that it's maybe like a cultural thing where they had to cook the eggs in the thing for certain reasons. You know, like they didn't have to like I I think there's culture in there, not just the flavor part of it. What's the culture? And by the way, I know that Quinn is really deeply steeped in that Israeli culture, so I don't know what the culture is, but I imagine that the eggs had to be cooked in the sauce for a reason. What do you mean?
+
+[28:23] Like what? I'm at Maybe there was only one pot. I don't know. Like, you know. One pot cooking.
+
+[28:29] Well, you know, thankfully I've progressed past having just one pot. And by the way, I have served it to people who are Israeli. They enjoy it. Just saying, give it a shot before you knock it. That's all I'm saying.
+
+[28:45] And definitely, if you're gonna have leftovers, it's the way to go. I also don't serve it at breakfast, so I'm already not traditional. I like to eat it at dinner time. There you go. I don't like to eat it ever.
+
+[28:57] You don't like it? No. Ariel, Ariel, come on. Go on. Oh, well, apparently, Saksuka does not originate from Israel, but rather uh Ottoman-era North Africa.
+
+[29:09] Yep. So if you're gonna go back and read Clifford Wright's book on Mediterranean cuisine, the entire cuisine of the Mediterranean shares a lot of things, right? Correct? So that entire area has similar cultural food background. Now I get it through I get it through Israel, not through North Africa.
+
+[29:29] Where it originated, North Africa, to me, they're all part of the same font of culinary ideas. Culinary ideas, right? So it doesn't really matter to me. First of all, it matters to me where like where the taste referent for me comes from, because that's how I'm getting it, right? And it matters to the people who feel culturally connected to it where it comes from, obviously.
+
+[29:56] But the point being, none of us, none of us who are speaking at this time have any sort of entree into that at all. So, you know, talking on any of us talking about quote unquote authenticity is preposterous. That's all I'm saying. And it's delicious when the eggs are cooked separately. That's all.
+
+[30:19] Maybe I'm maybe I'm wrong. As I said, I'm often wrong. Look at email. Wrong. You know what I mean?
+
+[30:28] What was the other thing I was wrong about? Oh, yeah, truffles and airports. Apparently, truffles and airports is the next big thing. You thought female. You know what is this thing that's taking off right now?
+
+[30:37] Is this cotton candy fad? Those cotton candy cakes, which is just like different colored cotton candies put into these cake things. I was in K-town the other day. There's a customizable cotton candy thing with like a digital screen. The line was bananas long.
+
+[30:53] I couldn't believe that people were calling it. Don't like don't like I like cotton candy machines. I like cotton candy machines. I like candy floss. But candy flaws, yeah, I know candy floss.
+
+[31:04] Yeah, but was is there any has any have any of you ever been like, you know what? I wish that piece of cotton candy I got was bigger. No, right? How do you feel about your grapes tasting like cotton candy? I was gonna ask, what do you think about the cotton candy grapes?
+
+[31:21] I think they're delicious. Yeah, you like them? I do I'd like a little more acidity in my grape. But I I I mean, I'm I'm not gonna say like I can go from year-round when they come around in the season, I'll do it and then I move on. Speaking of speaking of Mediterranean and fruit and flavor, uh, from Vengroff, we have in, I saw these raspberry uh raspberry oranges, which are some new sort of blood orange that has been trademarked by someone out of California, I think.
+
+[31:48] Uh you guys tried that anyone, anyone uh drink, right? Or were there oranges? They're oranges. I saw these in my local grocery store. I bought one and tasted it.
+
+[32:01] Not especially outstanding blood orange. Is it just a branding exercise? Could be. I mean, the the the issue also is is that a lot of times when you buy them, I know it just says grocery store. I know Trader Joe's has had them.
+
+[32:11] I've never had them, and Trader Joe's loves to buy things right before they expire and then put them out. And I've spoken to uh I forget his name, Nastasia, not Carp, but that other citrus scientist we spoke to that day who told us that not the day that we were at Gene Lester's farm, but remember that day we were talking with McGee with a citrus scientist, and we were talking that we liked mandarins and clementines, and he was like, You guys are idiots because you've never tasted one off the tree, and the minute they go into the supply chain, they've been ruined, and that's why you guys don't even know what a mandarin is. Do you remember this conversation? She had to step out, but I'm sure she does. Oh, all right.
+
+[32:48] I've had that mandarin experience. Yeah. Yeah, we're off the tree. Yeah. It's like completely different.
+
+[32:53] I was shocked, and I didn't know that was the reason. I just thought it was a good tree or something. Different better, different work, different good. Different good. It was so good.
+
+[33:00] It was like, wow. Well, Gene Lester, who's dead, uh, you know, he was like, an orange is an orange and nobody cares. You know, that was his thing. But he's like, mandarins are like, you know, each one is special, you know, every mandarin is sacred or whatever from that movie. But um, yeah.
+
+[33:19] All right. All right. Uh Ariel, did you have anything uh food related on your uh you know, your way up to releasing the book? You'd have a special food uh thing every week while you're waiting for the book to come out? Well, this this weekend actually we uh we bought a tortillere from M Wells in Long Island City, um, which is a Quebecois meat pie that we are most big fans of.
+
+[33:44] So we ate a uh a big a big tortillar on uh Saturday and Sunday. It was great. So uh describe this format of meat pie. Uh it's like got a very flaky crust, and then it's sort of you say flaky or leaky? Flaky, flaky.
+
+[34:02] All right. And then the meat, I mean, it's not like gelled like uh like a melt and mowbray pork pie, where it's like a solid block of meat. It's sort of like relatively loose, like very cooked down uh pieces of pork. So it's got some ground pork, I think some like onion and potato kind of binding it together, but it's very loosely bound. Saucy?
+
+[34:24] So not blocky, saucy or not saucy? No, not saucy. But not blocky either. No, just like nice soft meat. Do you know who totally different because it's saucy?
+
+[34:36] Do you know who makes a delicious chicken pot pie? My sister-in-law Miley, who you know runs the Hearst uh family of like you know, pioneer women and food and Popeye is ridiculously good. I love really good pot pie. Popeye's so good. Popeye's so good.
+
+[34:50] So uh, but we're not talking about Popeye. So uh Nick Webster here is from Toronto. What do you think about the Quebecois and their meat pies? Love it. Yeah?
+
+[34:58] Really good. So you're not like, you know, anti them because you're from the English speaking town next door? No, because they have all of our like food culture. Uh like they've got like the poutine and the and the tortillas and all that stuff. So you feel you feel more attached to the East Coast stuff than your kind of Great Lakes culture in Toronto?
+
+[35:18] Yeah. You're not a P-Mail bacon man. Oh, huge P male bacon for sure. Yeah, that's that's ridiculous. Yeah.
+
+[35:24] So good. So good. That's a good sandwich. Yeah, it's a great sandwich. Yeah.
+
+[35:28] Hard to find here, actually. You know why? Because we don't respect it. Totally. Yeah.
+
+[35:32] I've said this many times on the on this airway before, but we have such a disrespect for that product because what is sold as Canadian bacon here is second rate pork roll. It's just trash. So weird. Yeah, garbage. Yeah.
+
+[35:46] Compared to the real thing. Yeah. If you go to any grocery store, for example, in England, you can get like regular or like belly bacon and back bacon. And so I think like, you know, this American style of like there is one bacon and everything else is garbage in silly. Well, it is true.
+
+[36:03] Like the old old school, like if you read the old bacon references from uh English bacon references from like the early 1900s, late 1800s, like the bacon, and I think maybe still to this day refers to the entire cured side of uh pork, right? So you can get like Wiltshire, like different cures, but like on the whole side. Okay. Uh Ariel. Uh we got a question in for you.
+
+[36:32] Uh since you're joining again, uh, this is from Alexander, who I believe you uh answered one of their questions before. I thought I would update on the situation. Uh first of all, tried adding lactic acid to some mousey uh kefir water. So they had asked about uh mousiness, I guess the last time you were on. And it did actually reduce the off-flavor a lot, but not removed it.
+
+[36:50] And uh I also now know why I thought uh Pondon smelled mousy. Having encountered it after mousy wine, I can't say enjoy it. Uh, and then mentions that they uh worked in Denmark uh at a restaurant and they added glug to I mean uh uh Akave to their glug, which of course you would because it's delicious. It's delicious. Uh yeah, that's yeah.
+
+[37:09] They'll they work in a vegan restaurant and they say that it's difficult because uh apparently everything Danish has an ungodly amount of pork. The Danes grow decent pork, and I I don't know if we discussed it when you were on Ariel, but I love that. I love that scored pork, that pre-scored pork. Oh my god. Flesk dye.
+
+[37:25] What? It's called fleska sty. Yeah, that's good stuff, huh? I mean, like their language is absurd, but their pork is good. You know what I mean?
+
+[37:34] Uh no offense, Denmark. But I can say fleshai. Yeah, yeah. Uh okay. So uh Alexander's pro what?
+
+[37:46] Labor post eye, not a fan. No. What are you what are your thoughts on uh standard like liver sausages like labor force and labraquesa? You know, I'm not sure I've ever had a good one, so I wouldn't want to weigh in, but I mean I also haven't had a good lever post eye, but I've had what I have been told is a typically good one, and I do not like it. Oh my god.
+
+[38:07] Liverwurst on rye with mustard. So good. So good. That's an essential component of the uh of the dish, I think. What?
+
+[38:19] The rye or the mustard? The mustard. Yeah. I mean, mustard is such an essential component of many things, on account of its being great. You know what I mean?
+
+[38:28] Right, but it's like not not a lot of mustard in Danish cuisine, weirdly, for the amount of like liver that they eat. That is weird. Also, for a northern European place, you'd think they'd be all about that mustard. They really they like very sweet remoulade sauce. I mean, they have mustard, but it's just not as like not as much as you see in Germany.
+
+[38:46] Do they have that ridiculous high strength uh vinegar like the Swedes and the Germans have? Oh, like a 30% or like the 10% acid? Yeah, but it's it for food usually. They what? They use it for like preserving things, like making pickles.
+
+[39:02] It's like pickle vinegar, you don't like use it on food like directly. Yeah, I keep I keep always keep some around for when I need to boost the acidity, but I don't want to add a lot of liquid, you know what I mean? Why don't you just buy glacial acetic acid? Uh I'll tell you why. Because I did that once and it was a freaking nightmare.
+
+[39:19] It was a freaking nightmare. You spill it on the floor and it etches through your concrete. It's just a freaking nightmare. I am done with like crazy dangerous chemicals. Like I told you last time I bought um uh lye and I made a solution, I thought I had gotten good enough bottles and it ate through the bottles and started leaking all over the floor.
+
+[39:40] I was like, what the hell is it? I have such bad luck with you know food adjacent chemicals in my in my uh pantry. Now the the hardest core stuff I I carry is um I won't carry vinegar over 25%, and I won't carry I carry lactic acid at 88, and I carry which is nothing, it's no problem, and phosphoric acid at 85. And you know, whatever. Uh but yes.
+
+[40:06] That's what that seems sensible. Yeah. I'll tell you another one you don't want to mess around with is oh my god, I got uh I I forget why I gotten sulfuric acid, but I had sulfuric acid in the in my house. Nightmare. And in like high grade, like, you know, muriatic like HCL, because I was doing experiments, and just it's like so hard to get rid of it in your house when you're in an apartment.
+
+[40:32] You know what I mean? It's just so hard to get rid of that crap, and you just don't want it around. You know? Uh I just don't recommend it. Just don't do it.
+
+[40:40] Just don't do it. No, not an apartment, definitely. No, no. No fume hoods, no nothing, splash hazards, dogs around. Please.
+
+[40:49] You know what I mean? I mean, my kids aren't gonna uh do anything anymore. But I was even nervous having that Josmine in my house because I was worried that you know, Dax would knock it over one night and my house would smell like a dirt farm for like eight million years. You know what I'm saying? Hell it does.
+
+[41:05] Yeah, I mean, I think if you're gonna get in the habit of storing like chemicals in your dwelling space, you should get a chemical cabinet like we have in a lab. Do you have one in your house? I'd be sick. I don't know, I don't have one in my house, but I have a much smaller apartment than you. Yeah.
+
+[41:22] Uh all right, so uh Alexander has uh TCA cork taint problem. Problem is uh they seem to be overly sensitive sensitive to sensitive to it uh and find it way more often than they should, according to how often people state is an issue in wines. And it's to the level of problem where some of their suppliers doubt them when they want to return the bottles. I am certain that they do contain TCA though, or at least uh similar off flavors as every time we have been unsure, I've tested it blind triangle test and uh picked them out. How can this be?
+
+[41:50] Is it uh TCA uh uh more common than was commonly believed? I also still don't understand what causes it and struggle to find good information as the Wikipedia on it uh sucks. And uh most scientific articles are paywalled. Can you explain a bit about TCA? What causes it, and why we can't detect it before we open the wine if it is in the cork to begin with?
+
+[42:11] Yes, I can. Um TCA is trichloroanethyl. Uh it's an organic compound that is called, well, it's responsible for cork taint because it's found in cork. And it smells like a musty basement, basically. Like a little bit like a little moldy but more musty than moldy, but kind of like pervasive in a way that's uh musty doesn't necessarily like convey the you know extremity of.
+
+[42:37] Um so it is famously one of the compounds that we have like a very, very, very low threshold for for detectoring detecting it by smell, um like parts per trillion, I think, like low parts per trillion, basically. Um similar to G Oz and probably even lower than geophant. So like this is a problem in the wine industry because like it's in corks and it's almost until recently impossible to detect instrumentally um at the ranges where it still has a sensory effect. So you can have a cork that you you know, using conventional gas chromatography spectrometry, you like can't detect anything, but there's enough there for you to smell it. Um so trichloroenethyl is formed when uh by like a combination of like fungal contamination and using chlorinated uh cleaning materials.
+
+[43:35] So like uh like you know, mold mold and other fungi in the cork. Excuse me, it will form um, you know, anethole, which are I mean, if you look at the molecule, it's uh if you look at the molecule and compare it to what you know lignin looks like, um, which I'm sure you all do. Basically, uh it's it's like you broke off a little tiny, tiny, tiny piece of the substructure of woody material, um, and then uh douse chlorine on it. So it's this combination of like fungal agents and then uh you know, chlorine sanitizers. I mean, it's kind of like a uh uh uh pyric.
+
+[44:15] Anyway, it's ironic because you'd use uh you know chlorine containing cleaning agents to try to clean up some of these like fungal contaminations, but it actually makes it worse. Um, but if they know if they know that, why don't they use non-chlorine sanitizers? Well, they do there's a lot of places that use like steam and oxidizer based ones, I believe. I don't know why everyone doesn't do that. Um I do know that uh I believe it's cork supply in uh Martinez or around Martinez, California.
+
+[44:47] Um, so I went to UC Davis for grad school. Um, and the uh I was in an analytical chemistry lab, and one of the other projects I wasn't working on this was like getting better at detecting trichloroanethyl PCA quartate. Um so what I have to do is use instead of like a regular mass spectrometer, you have to use what's called a like tandem quadruple mass spectrometer where you like smash up the molecules and then like filter out only some of the pieces and then smash them again, and then it so it's like a basically it like lowers the noise baseline super low, so like little little amounts of things that you're looking for like pop-up out of the baseline, and you can detect them at you know much, much lower concentrations. Um, so I know that there are some places. Corksupply was one of the ones that we talked to.
+
+[45:40] We actually visited them that does like QAQC, like quality control where they're taking doing like mass spectrometry on uh you know lots of corks. But yeah, but unfortunately on the wine bottle doesn't say we use the non-stinky ones. You know what I mean? Exactly. Yeah.
+
+[45:56] I mean it costs more, you know, by definition. Yeah. Doing all those analysis. Um but yeah, no, it's kind of a combination of like sanitation handling and quality control. But it's barely detectable by regular instrumentation in a cork, let alone like while the bottle is sealed.
+
+[46:17] Yeah, well, sorry, Alexander, that you have better than regular instrumentation on your face to uh detect the uh the taint. Um Rick Viola and Nathan Brand have similar questions. It must be a vacuum sealing kind of day. I don't know. Uh wanting to buy, Rick says, wanting to buy a vacuum chamber uh sealer, uh wanting thoughts on brands and things to look out for.
+
+[46:39] Uh and Nathan Brand uh says, I am also ready to buy a vacuum sealer looking for a large unit. Release a 12-inch seal bar, hoping to seal large pieces of wild game. So the biggest countertop unit is what I'm looking for. Thanks. Uh thanks, CI crew.
+
+[46:53] You're the best. Okay, so of the brands I've used, I've used uh professionally, I've used uh Birkles, Multivax, Mini Packs. Uh I've also used food savers, and at home I've used uh the ANOV. Um, I don't know whether you guys have used any other ones professionally. Just the Burkle.
+
+[47:16] Just the Burkle, yeah. Uh the analog or the uh I used one of the old analog Burkels. Yeah, I think I did too. I mean, listen, for 10 years. If you're gonna buy a chamber sealer, right?
+
+[47:26] Especially Nathan here with the with having to seal big games, it's not just the length of your seal bar that matters, although that is important. It is the size of the chamber itself. So uh and they vary wide wildly, right? So you need to open up your machine. So I like I happen to like the mini packs because they have a really tall dome uh on their on their on their chambers, and but you have to like remove everything out and then imagine smashing your food into has to all fit in that chamber, right?
+
+[47:59] So uh I've seen machines with very shallow chambers that can't uh, you know, even the seal bar is wide enough to do what you want, it's still not big enough to hold what you want. Now, if you buy like food saver style bags, you can actually use a food saver bag in a chamber vacuum machine backwards. So, in fact, just to make sure that that's still the case, I did one this morning. So you take the seal bar, you remove it, you flip it 180 degrees so that the seal section is facing out of the machine instead of the cutting part of the seal bar, and you can suck a vacuum as though you were a food saver on a chamber machine. And we used to use the food savers at the French culinary to do like 36-inch stripers.
+
+[48:41] By the way, if you're gonna try to do a whole striper in a bag, it's a one-way situation because uh even if you clip the fins on a striper, like if you you can push it into the bag because the fins will fold flat, but as soon as you pull the fit fish the other way, it will shred the bag. In fact, I once bought uh a pair of uh silicone uh gloves that were meant to for frying. They're like, these are so good you could put them in a fry thing, and I went in to get a whole striped bass out of a deep fryer with it, and it cut right through the glove. The fin cut right through the glove. Luckily, it was on the way out of the oil, and I only got marginally horrifically burned, not major horrifically burned.
+
+[49:21] And I was like, you know what? Don't work. They don't work. Nope, nope, does not work. Uh anyway, so uh I would look at the chamber size.
+
+[49:28] The other thing is is that don't believe the size of the seal bar because uh if you look at most seal bars, I'm sure there are some seal bars that work edge to edge, but uh the way the seal bars work is there's a thin resistance wire uh and a band, right? So one for the part that seals the flat thing and one for the part that makes the cut. And then that's wrapped over a metal bar, and then over that is a Teflon tape that stops it from sticking to your bag. And towards the end where the wire's about to bend down, nine times out of ten, it bulges up a little bit, and that section will actually mess up your bags. So uh I never trust the end sections of my bars.
+
+[50:09] Uh just a FYI. And also, if you're new to the bagging game, um check every single bag because until you get good at it, you aren't good at it, and a large percentage of your bags will fail, either because you got a piece of pepper in where the seal was gonna be, or you didn't take the time to flatten the bag on your seal bar and it's a little bit off kilter, and you'll get a little pipe of uh air area that uh causes it to not seal. Eventually, those failures will get down to almost nothing, but at the beginning they're gonna be quite high. So, and I'm not talking about the beginning for like a day, I'm talking for a long time. Uh so there's that.
+
+[50:49] Um I really like my mini pack. Uh, you know, I always thought multivac was overpriced. Um, you know, I don't know what else to say. I I uh look, the real question is is are you going to invest in a machine that has uh an oil-based vacuum pump or not? The oil-based vacuum pump, the the reason they make machines cost so much is that the chambers are built out of really beefy, stainless steel, uh, the really thick plastic tops, and then have a very expensive vacuum pump in them.
+
+[51:16] Um I mean, I don't know. Was this was any of this helpful for choosing uh? Yeah. I mean, well, anyway. Um I've never used the Vacmaster, the mid-range ones that are uh put out to hunters, but some people like them, but they they don't have the oil pumps.
+
+[51:34] I really, really like an oil pump. Uh the APO, the is a nice machine. It's got a very small chamber size, uh, but it's a very small machine. It also doesn't have an oil-based vacuum pump in it. My problem with it is uh, and I think I said this on air, I tried getting a hold of them, is that it's not software upgradable.
+
+[51:52] And the the one that I have, uh when you hit stop, it doesn't seal before it stops. And to me, that is a that's unusable because most of the time I set the machine to run as long as it can run so I can suck a deep vacuum and then I manually stop it when I'm going. Oh, one last thing. Uh consider getting a machine with if you have the money with two seal bars. This way, when you're doing small packages, you can seal twice as many per cycle.
+
+[52:22] Uh everyone's like, I'm worried that the second seal bar is gonna take up so much real vacuum machine. Wrong, because you can remove that other seal bar if you're not using it. Don't be a dunce. Get two seal bars if you can afford it. You can now pack twice as fast.
+
+[52:34] Uh okay. Simon B says, when making a grilled cheese sandwich, what do you think are the pros and cons of using butter versus mayonnaise on the outside surfaces of the bread? Thoughts. I mean, I've used both. I like them both.
+
+[52:45] I prefer mayo. You prefer mayo? Why? Because you like to sprinkle cheese and fricatize the outside of it or no? No.
+
+[52:50] I just I like the like the salty kind of like oily taste that it brings to it. Little tang too. It's also like you can spread it on and get it really even. Yeah. I don't think it gets as crispy as butter, but I still enjoy it a lot.
+
+[53:05] Yeah? Yeah. I I like them both. I used them both. What else what else does anyone else got?
+
+[53:09] Anyone else uh gonna want to weigh in on the butter versus mayo situation? I I I'm more I'm a butter guy, but I also use like just a very small, uh like a little sandwich press. Okay, but so but like do you think that that makes it does that affect whether the butter or the mayonnaise, the fact that you have a press or what? Well, I mean I feel like if you're doing it in a pan, it makes sense to like drop butter in the pan. Whereas with a press, I don't know.
+
+[53:41] But you just said it you like butter but have a press. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think you sort of you you could you could waste butter doing it in a pan. Whereas the press makes it a little more contained. When I'm doing a lot, I brush the butter typically on the bread so that I don't have any sting, and then when I'm doing it at home, obviously I just throw a big old hunk of butter in if I'm doing butter and then just move the bread around to sop it all up.
+
+[54:09] Um but I'm I look I see I think they're both valid and good. I think they're both valid and good. I think mayonnaise is definitely better if you do want to freecolate it though. Because then you can sprinkle the cheese, it sticks to the mayonnaise, and then you can move it and flop it down and it's and it's good to go. I mean, I mean, mayonnaise, I think, like in the past i look when I was a kid, nobody used mayonnaise as a uh as a umbody used mayonnaise as a coating for a frying things.
+
+[54:36] And I think you know, recently people are like, oh, mayonnaise is oil that stays in one place. You know what I mean? So, you know, in that way I think it's uh it's good. I mean, like, you know, I love mayonnaise on grilled fish, you know what I mean? Mayonnaise on grilled fish, money all day long.
+
+[54:52] Uh all right, uh Math Math Math writes in. I loved reading The Kitchen as Laboratory recently. For those of you that don't know or haven't used the Wayback Machine, that's Caesar Vega's book from uh 20 something, like 1113 that had a bunch of people. I think what I have a chapter in that. Oh, yeah?
+
+[55:10] What was your chapter? Yeah. Uh it's about uh Salaf Dunderma, the Kirkish stretchy ice cream. Oh, you wrote the stretchy ice cream uh uh chapter? Nice, nice.
+
+[55:20] I like still yeah, strong. All right. Uh I don't actually own a copy of the book, but uh yeah. So anyway, so math math liked it. And uh are there similar books that that you can recommend?
+
+[55:36] Nothing. Well, I mean the classic but the crackling is superb from the early 80s, which kind of like kicked off the conversation about uh or the modern conversation about like we should do science on cooking. Yeah, yeah. Not a good book though. I mean, just isn't you know what I mean?
+
+[55:57] Like I read it being like it it's like if you need to have a an historically complete record of post-World War II science as uh science in cooking and Nicholas Curti is your jam, then yeah, get the crackling is superb. The recipes are not superb. Like you're not getting you're not getting a lot of knowledge out of it. I don't think, especially if you already own, like, you know, the you know, McGee's book or you know, your upcoming book. I mean, really, what they should be buying is this book I've heard of called Flavorama.
+
+[56:27] Yeah. I've heard it's gonna be out in March, and maybe they should get that book. That might be helpful for them. For pre-order on Amazon, um, what number is it was actually number one in the releases in food science uh yesterday. Sweet.
+
+[56:42] Sweet. Yeah. Amazon bestseller. I like that. I like that.
+
+[56:48] Yeah, yeah. So uh yeah, I would go ahead and get that book. Um I would get an old copy of The Curious Cook. I would get um what else? What other books?
+
+[57:03] Nothing. Nothing. Well, while you while you're thinking, I'll read the second half of Math Math's uh question. Have you, i.e., any of us, uh tried sous vide uh caramelized onions. Harold McGee wrote an article on his blog circa 2014, uh, where you're caramelizing uh sugar in sous vide over one to two days at 93 Celsius.
+
+[57:22] Are there any good uses for uh sous vide caramelization? No, I don't do that to onions. Nope. I do have to step in and say you were not caramelizing sugars, you were performing the Meyer reaction on the sugars and amino acids in the onions, even though it's called a caramelized onion, but caramelization is not a significant part of its uh flavor profile. Oh, yes, but with McGee, but just to clarify what you just said, what McGee was doing was low temperature breakdown of actual sugar.
+
+[57:51] Like so, so like let's separate. So McGee was doing caramelization where like the sugar was breaking down and the fructose was actually, you know, because fructose will go brown and start caramelizing at a low temperature. Anyway, so uh you're saying onions not caramelization, Harold's saying caramelization. I'm gonna say that onions need to be cooked so that they can evaporate their moisture. Well, yeah, and some of that sulfur.
+
+[58:24] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Are there any other good uses for sous v caramelization? And what Ariel is telling you is is that no? That's what you're saying. Uh actually it can be, it can be.
+
+[58:37] I haven't done this in a while, so like I don't have like, you know, numbers off the top of my head, but like um caramelizing milk that way. So, like, not not like sulfur de leche where it's like condensed milk and super sugary, but actual just like milk in a safety bag uh can be quite cool. All right. Yeah, I have not done that. El Butz wants to know uses for the spinzall 2.0, but we'll do an update on that maybe next week and talk about the spinzall 2.0, which is on the water right now.
+
+[59:07] And in fact, I think the ones that are going to the Asian market might be shipping direct from Asia almost as we speak. Uh Chris says, I'm in the market for a stand mixer for the first time for home use. It'd be great to hear what'd be some essential properties principles of stand mixers to guide my choice based on our experience. Do I still meet Dave like the and carcinome? Yeah, I love it.
+
+[59:23] The one thing it's not the best at is uh brioche. So if you make a lot of brioche, I would say go Bosch. But you're in Munich, Germany, Chris, get the Bosch. You're in Munich, Germany, get the Bosch. The Bosch is a great mixer, it's fantastic.
+
+[59:37] Why would you spend extra money to get a Kitchen aid shipped to you from the United States just so that you could have a subpar mixer? Now I like the Kitchen Aid for some things. KitchenAid, by the way, great at Brioche. But the Bosch is an all-around great mixer, and it's made in your country. I love the Ankarstrum.
+
+[59:55] That's the one I have on my counter now. Having had a couple of years with Bosch and most of my life with the Kitchen Aid. Anyone else? Anyone else had experience with more than one stand mixer? So your media don't have any meaning.
+
+[1:00:06] No, but do you like your Kitchen Aid? Or I mean like I love the KitchenAid in certain ways. Do you like the mess it makes? No. Do you like the fact that the beater doesn't touch the bottom of the uh No, that annoys me, yeah.
+
+[1:00:15] Like weird plastic thing to put on the outside to stop the mess, it doesn't actually work. Like when the flour flies out in your face all over the kitchen, are you like, oh ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho. You love that? Love it. Yeah.
+
+[1:00:26] Or when you're making butter in it, do you like when the when it breaks and the and the whey sprays everywhere? Yeah, you love it, right? Yeah. Fun to clean up. I used to love all the saran wrap that we would put around the thing to stop that from happening.
+
+[1:00:38] Or you could just make butter or or oh, but you could just make butter in a freaking spinz all. Uh well, listen, Nick, thanks for coming on. Thanks for bringing Elton John's fantastic uh yellow brick marmeat over here. And uh Ariel, thanks for coming on. We'll have you on again.
+
+[1:00:53] Uh very close to release date. Hey, cooking issues.
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+[0:20] Yeah? Yeah, yeah. Yeah? Yeah. Joe Hazen rocking the panels.
+
+[0:24] Joe has a new uh a new uh what's it called? Like uh like an announcer AI voice. Yeah, let's say for today's uh episode. What is today, uh Joe? Here is another edition of No Tangent Tuesdays on cooking issues.
+
+[0:36] Wow. I kind of like that. I wish that was my voice. Uh over there on the left hand, we got uh Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing?
+
+[0:45] Good. Good. And uh Jackie Molecules, but not in the same same city, probably, but not same building, right? How you doing, Jack? Not in this hair?
+
+[0:53] I'm good. I'm in I'm in San Francisco. San Francisco? Man. So did you drive there?
+
+[0:58] Did you do this Sammy Hagar where you couldn't drive 55? What used to take two hours now takes all day? I can't drive 55. I I did drive, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[1:08] And what speed did you go? What's the legal speed there now in between the two? Oh, I don't know, but I I usually just do 80, 85. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you can't drive 55.
+
+[1:18] I follow follow the flow. You gotta follow the flow, you know. I mean everyone else is doing doing it. There was a lot of other problems with the Carter administration, obviously. A lot of stuff going on, double digit inflation, freaking gas prices, like you know, the uh the hostages in Iran, but man, that double nickel really pissed off a lot of people.
+
+[1:34] You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Uh it's the only Sammy Hagar song that really listened to. I'm not like a like when it comes to Van Halen.
+
+[1:43] Are any of you are any of you Sammy Hagar uh Van Halen folk? No. No, right? No. No.
+
+[1:49] No. I mean, you know, it's not that I'm like in love with you know Diamond David Lee Roth, but you know, that's the Van Halen I listen to. You know what I mean? Anyway. And in the extreme upper left hand corner, how you doing, Quinn?
+
+[2:04] I'm good. Yeah? Yeah. All right. Good.
+
+[2:07] All right. So what do you guys got for me for the week? Anything? Anything for the week? Oh, by the way, if you're listening on Patreon live, call in your questions to 917-410-1507.
+
+[2:15] That's 917-410-1507. And please get your questions ready because uh tell them who's coming up if they're not a Patreon member and tell them who's coming up that they might want to listen to. Well, Quentin, you want to take that one away since you're the one who secured the guest. Uh sure, yeah. And next week we have Chef Sola El Waewi on the show to talk about her new book called Start Here, among other things that she could she can talk about.
+
+[2:41] It's quite a tone. It's a fat, it's a fat book. It's quite a tone. It's not like uh it's not some thin little manual. Like, you know, it's not like what I would write where it's like how to cook and then just open the page, do it right, and that's it.
+
+[2:53] Book over. No, it's like big. You know what I mean? Yeah. No, go ahead, sorry.
+
+[2:58] And then the week after that, Dr. A. L. Johnson will be back on the show in person, I believe. And uh we'll talk about more about her book, Slaverama, which will be out at that point.
+
+[3:10] Yeah, say it with, you know, you gotta say it, you know. You gotta punch that. Well, Dave, I'll I'll defer to you for that. Yeah, all right. Well, we'll do it when the time comes, maybe.
+
+[3:18] Well, when the doctor comes on, we're actually gonna start the stream 15 minutes after we normally start, I believe. All right, so yeah, so Patreon folks just know it's gonna run 1215 to 1215 to 115. There you go. Uh and both both are in studio, correct, Quinn? Yeah.
+
+[3:32] Yep. And I will also mention I didn't do much cooking on the weekend. I did bake some bread, my usual sort of sourdough thing. But I did kind of revamp the Patreon exclusive Discord. So we've got some new channels.
+
+[3:49] Uh normally Discord is like a chat room, but we've also added some straight up like old school forum sections to keep things more organized. So I think so far people are are liking it. Nice. Nice. Awesome.
+
+[4:04] Uh and I'm assuming that uh both books were gonna have the uh what's it called going the uh Kitchen Arts and Letters both going, right? Yeah, the uh Kitchen Arts first are here, but they're already uh uh released on Patreon. Sweet. Uh all right. And you know, if you should like to show uh I don't know, give us a good rating because it helps us out.
+
+[4:21] Helps us help you. Help us help you. You know what I'm saying? Absolutely. Uh all right.
+
+[4:26] So uh what else? What do you got, John? Anything? Anyone, anyone? Food.
+
+[4:30] I uh I went to Zuni Cafe for the first time and finally had the the you know the famous chicken. Wow, how was the famous chicken? It was good. It was really good. I I I was eating it and I I I told my girlfriend, like, where have I had this before?
+
+[4:46] I think I've had this before and Nastasia, it was it was with you. Um Peter Hoffman, I guess, cooked it when we hung out. And he did such a good job that I really had thought I had, you know, that exact chicken before. Yeah, well, um when was that cookbook? Like a billion years ago or like two billion years ago?
+
+[5:04] Yeah. Two billion, I think. Two billion. That was like that was a long time ago. You know what I mean?
+
+[5:10] Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad that they still it was good. Still cook a chicken. Cool.
+
+[5:15] Yeah, yeah. Well, how does it come out? How does it come out of the cafe? Like what what am I looking at? Like uh what am I looking for?
+
+[5:22] We whole whole cut into pieces over like a panzanella with big old chunks of bread and um like a salad with currants, I believe. How bitter was the uh pan how bitter was the what were the greens? Not very blanched or just weren't bitter ever? Not over. What's that?
+
+[5:43] No, no, no. They're they're not not like the most bitter greens. I can't remember what they were though. But um or maybe they were just dressed so much with the chicken juice and everything else, and the currants are in there, so that sweetens it up. But how many pieces do they cut a chicken into?
+
+[6:00] Uh I want to say six, I think. Yeah, six. Um and really good skin, like nice crispy skin. It was it was pretty pretty damn perfect. So you're saying they cut that sucker apart in time so that the skin didn't steam itself to death.
+
+[6:16] Yeah. Yeah. Uh yeah, I mean, like I really like crispy skin so much. What's your favorite poultry skin? Good question.
+
+[6:27] It's gonna be dick, right? I mean, duck skin is good. Duck skin is great. Duck skin is my favorite skin on the bird. I don't know that it's my favorite skin to rip off the bird and eat as its own snack.
+
+[6:41] You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I mean, chicken's really good. The only issue with chicken is it's a little thin sometimes. You know what I mean?
+
+[6:47] Once it renders out and gets crispy. I'm always slightly disappointed by like oh okay, I'm just gonna say this. A perfectly crispy rendered skin that was rendered crispy on the bird is better than one crisp crispy skin on its own, also good. Delicious. Like flat, flat ovened crispy skin, good.
+
+[7:07] But like perfect skin on the bird, I mean, maybe it's just because it's something. Maybe it's like, you know, like, you know, when you eat when you go to dinner on your honeymoon, it's more delicious because, you know, of everything surrounding it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I think that's probably up. Yeah.
+
+[7:14] Yeah. Although, do you like the fact that it sh everything shrinks like a mother when you pan the skin? No, but what are you gonna do? Cooked fish skin in a pan is the best. Like just putting like roasting, like like, you know, taking the fish skin, salt, pepper.
+
+[7:33] Love it. Yeah, yeah. Little sh tiny bit of sugar. Not so much sugar that it scorches. This is the mistake people make.
+
+[7:38] A little bit of sugar cuts any bitterness that you might get. Too much sugar, it scorches, right? Oh my god, put that in the oven. Keep a freaking eye on it. Because as soon, listen, people, your fingers are gonna get immune to it.
+
+[7:51] You pull the thing out and you tap it. This is what you do with any fried food. You tap it, and you have to mentally correct for the fact that as the skin cools, it hardens, right? So you have to know exactly that point when you push it, it's got a little bit of gibb. You could tell it's gonna be hard when it when it cools down.
+
+[8:06] You know what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's what it's all about about getting that feeling in your finger. And you have to practice with the skin because breaded stuff is hard as soon as it's hard, right?
+
+[8:17] It's the color you have to worry about on breaded stuff because as breaded stuff cools, it darkens down like paint. You know what I mean? So you gotta like check it. But pretty much you can judge the hardness. It's actually gonna get a little softer as it as the crust steams out.
+
+[8:30] But uh collagen-based things are the opposite. They get harder as they cool. So you you gotta just get that into your into your little tap tap tapy tap finger. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[8:42] Anyway. The uh Discord is asking about the uh recent article on Grove Street. You wanna talk about it, Dave? Now let me talk about this first because I gotta get it off my mind. It says not food related.
+
+[8:54] Okay. Not food related. Okay. I got this book, and Nastasia like ear muffs because I was I talked to her about this for like half an hour yesterday. She doesn't want to hear it anymore, right?
+
+[9:03] Uh this book duped by Saul Casson about wrongful, like like false confessions and how common false confessions and how often people get convicted and all the skullduggery with false confessions. And this book that I'm listening to now, it's like someone put a piece of thermite on my head and it's burning a hole through my skull. Like I just can't believe it. I just can't believe it. You know what I mean?
+
+[9:30] Like if half the stuff or quarter of what is in this book is accurate, and I have no reason to believe it's not all accurate, I'm like, oh my God, every everything needs to be burnt. Everything needs to be burnt down. Like all the things burnt down. It's just nuts. It's just crazy.
+
+[9:45] But I will say this if you buy it, which you know, I'm recommending you listen to it or ever. If you do buy it, just be aware that it it uh each chapter has its own theme of like, you know, the stigma attached to people who are, you know, uh have a uh a false confession and then get exonerated, and you know, or why people would give a false confession. Because you the basic premise of the book is you don't think it could happen to you, but ding ding ding, guess what? It can, you know what I mean? And like why it happens and like all the false science behind it and all this other stuff.
+
+[10:13] But uh the stories tend to repeat themselves in like later chapters, like because he's an actual academic, even though this is a popular book, he won't he he he recapitulates entire trial stories in later chapters that you've already heard. So if you hit it like in a small chunk, you'd be like, he's repeating himself, but I see why he did it, but that's my only little gripe, right? Anyway, all right, so that's off my head. Now, what was I supposed to talk about, Quinn? Duped.
+
+[10:37] Uh-huh. Contrabart. Uh yeah, yeah, yeah. So uh in uh the Grub Street today and in uh uh New York magazine, uh they announced, which you know the thing is it makes me nervous is because I know so many people in the old days who are like they didn't have an opening date yet, but the stuff was announced, and then you know what happens to them? Burnt, burnt, burnt.
+
+[11:01] I'm thinking about you know, our you know, our friend Sam Mason and Evan uh Freeman over there at uh Taylor, who got like just excoriated by the press because like the article started coming out too far in advance of when the place was gonna open, right? Now, this is different here because you know I don't anticipate a lot of delays, and you know, we're using the same liquor license. Well, okay, what's happening? So uh Fabian von Hausgears, we call him fabulous, right? Even though I'm I think Nastasi and I are the only people left in the world that call him fabulous.
+
+[11:32] Actually, Booker and Dax call him fabulous. But other than that, those four people. Or do you call him Fabian now, Stas? I don't call him anything because I never speak to him, but uh, that's overly overly rude for no reason. Like, if you were gonna call him a name, what would you call it?
+
+[11:49] It's like, I don't talk to the Pope anymore, but I don't know what I would call him. You know what I mean? It's like we know Well no, I'm trying to I haven't spoken to him in since I don't know what Houdini Party. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah.
+
+[12:01] Of course, you'd haven't spoken to anyone since the Houdini Party. That was like how far how far before the pandemic was the Houdini Party? Uh a year. I don't know. Yeah.
+
+[12:11] No, we did that pop-up thing at uh at Wild Air towards the end of the pandemic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But uh yeah. There's a bird for sure. You and you in hyper hyper robot there.
+
+[12:25] Yeah, but uh Fabian wasn't at Thunderbolt though. Oh, you're saying did st Nastasia go out. Yes. But in other words, like we used to do a lot of stuff beforehand and then we stopped doing it. Yeah, basically is my point.
+
+[12:35] Well, we'll start again maybe someday once we once we get uh once we're flush again, right, Stas, we could do that kind of crap. Uh yeah. What is that? Jeez Louise. I'm just saying, like John, John.
+
+[12:50] What? Getting you getting you to do anything is really hard. Oh, yeah. It's not really the money. Oh yeah?
+
+[12:56] Yeah. Oh, I see. I see. And she's not wrong. Yeah.
+
+[13:00] I say I'm gonna do something, I do it. That's why it's hard to get me to say I'm gonna do something, because when I say I'm gonna do it, I do it. You know what I mean? Like that's all there is. Yeah.
+
+[13:09] Uh so anyways, so uh Fabulous and Jeremiah Stone uh had a uh restaurant called Contra. It was like tasting, you know, menus and like reservations every night. It was their first restaurant. I remember Stasia, you're gonna remember this. We were at uh Booker and Dak's lab and we still had a lab on Eldritch Street, and uh Fabulous comes in because he had like stodged at like, you know, Noma and all all these places.
+
+[13:34] Like, you know, he was at JG for a while and he had done both pastry and culinary, and it just wasn't on my radar that he and Jeremiah, because they're so different. We're gonna start a restaurant together, right? Then they've been on the show, but Nastasi and I were both like, what? Remember that? What?
+
+[13:49] And then like uh they had that restaurant for 10 years and they decided to shut it down because they just wanted it to be whatever. They wanted to bookend it, they wanted to do something else, they didn't want to have to keep doing that all the time. So they shut it down. They wanted to open a bar. They contacted me because, you know, uh I introduced them, and you know, we've known each other forever.
+
+[14:10] And so they want me to do the uh, you know, like work on the on a bar concept. Gonna be called Bar Contra. The date it's gonna open is yet as undisclosed. And I've tapped uh I'm not gonna be there every day. So I tapped uh Theo uh Uya, who uh came to work with us towards the end of existing conditions.
+
+[14:28] Uh he's gonna come, you know. Well, it's not again, it's not locked down. So this is why I hate talking about stuff before it's locked down, because who knows? He could call me right now on the phone and be like, I'm out, crap on you. You know what I mean?
+
+[14:38] But anyway, so Theo is gonna be uh, you know, the head bartender, I guess will be the title and like heading up the program. We haven't done the drink development yet, but there you go. I mean uh the drink development, like you know, I've we spent the past however many you know decades of life figuring out how to develop drinks. So it's not it's not the development of the drinks that's the prize. I think a lot of people like menu, right?
+
+[15:00] It takes a while to develop a menu because you gotta iterate, but it's not like you're like, oh my God. You know what I mean, John? Yeah. Get back me up on this. Because you know, you know, you know ideas, you come up with ideas.
+
+[15:10] That's not the hard part, like iterating to get it exactly the way you want, not easy, but you know, uh, I think you know, people have a skewed concept of like what the hard part is. I mean, the hard part was getting where you know what you want to cook at all, right? Anyway. Uh, was that sufficient uh sufficient uh yapping about it, Quinn or no? Sure, I think so.
+
+[15:34] All right. We should also quickly plug is flavor. Oh, yeah. You wanna you want to talk about MoFad? Are they gonna come on?
+
+[15:41] I need to follow up with Catherine on that, but yes. Yeah, we're talking about Mofad, the Museum of Food and Drink. Uh, we've rebooted the flavor exhibition. It's at uh Empire Stores, which is the place in Dumbo that used to be a coffee warehouse. In fact, that neighborhood uh on both, I think both sides of the river was the premier coffee import export.
+
+[15:59] Obviously, we don't grow anything here, but you know, back in the day, uh, was the, you know, that was one of the distribution hubs in the world for coffee. And Euchers, who wrote the very famous book and until like 30 years ago, like still the preeminent book, even though it was written in the early 1900s, yeah, because it was before the coffee revolution. Euchre's all about coffee. And if you've never seen Euchre's All About Coffee, I recommend that you go look up, uh it's you know, it's uh public domain, so you can read it. Fantastic.
+
+[16:29] I own a copy. Of course I own a copy. But uh come on, don't be dumb. He also wrote all about tea. I don't know how much he cared about tea as opposed to coffee.
+
+[16:37] It's a similar length, but he's coffee was first, and he worked in that neighborhood on both sides of the river as like a coffee uh dealer and distributor and knew all of the players. Like, you know, he might have been after uh you think it's Jabez Burns or Jabez Burns, the guy who invented the sample roaster and a bunch of roasters. Would you prefer it to be Jabez or Jabez? Javas. Really?
+
+[16:58] I think so. I kind of want it to be Jabez. You know what I mean? Sure. Like Jabba?
+
+[17:03] Yeah. Like Jabba, because it's not Haba the Hutt. No. I don't think the guy was Spanish. You know what I mean?
+
+[17:10] Yeah, I I I don't know. Chavez. The Jay Anazy, it's gotta go Spanish, right? It's gotta be Javes. I think so.
+
+[17:18] Yeah. Unfortunate. And and they still make uh, by the way, roasters based on his original plan. And you know, they now have all kinds of thermocouples in it, but he did the first little mini drum roaster that could accurately do roasts on small batches because it's difficult, you know what I mean? And I they I don't think they very, they very rarely have seen them.
+
+[17:39] I haven't searched in a long time, but they didn't used to come up for auction a lot, but I've always kind of wanted one. They're pricey though, you know what I mean? Because they're a legit. And everyone's so coffee obsessed now that like all the stuff that used to be free on eBay is like infinity. People will buy any damn thing.
+
+[17:53] You know what I mean? Yeah. Uh people, the worst. Um, how do we get into this? Oh, flavor.
+
+[17:58] Yeah. So we rebooted the uh flavor thing, uh, and you can go check it out. So I built these little pumps that you can go. So at the first uh time, did we already talk about this on the show? The first time around, we had a pellet maker, like a tablet maker that was used, you could use it for candy or you could use it for medicine.
+
+[18:15] And um one of our uh people who was, you know, a staff at the museum at the time, Kate Dobday, who's now at Jay uh Jay uh Jay's Beard, right? She's still at James Beard? I'm that's where she was last time. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, so she became tablet queen.
+
+[18:28] So Peter Kim, you know, you know, our old favorite you know, punching bag museum guy, Peter Kim, uh developed this recipe, and Kate was making these pellets. So she would sit there with this machine and it would be like poof, poof, poof, poof, poof, poof, poof, and would punch out these pellets of all different flavors. And the hard part about making a pellet is if you're not gonna use sugar, you need to have something that will actually compress the pellet so it doesn't turn to dust. But it also can't be bitter, but it has to be dead neutral. So Peter jacked it with inulin.
+
+[18:57] So hopefully you didn't eat too many tablets and go Nastasia Lopez uh, you know, sunchoke Farderama on it, you know what I mean? But uh anyway, so she made all the all the pellets and Rich She actually, our CookQuest, uh the uh Koji uh god, he modified the gumball machines to uh distribute the pellets at the first go around. But we didn't want to, we didn't have Kate, we didn't have Rich, so we didn't want to go back to uh pellets. So I designed and built these little pumps, these little flavor pumps with little peristaltic uh pumps on them. And you push a button on top and they go and they pump out the flavors into spoons and then you you taste it, which you know, I like.
+
+[19:34] It's got a little flashing LEDs, right? Plus we have the smell synths back, so you can sit there and push all the buttons and do flavor mashing. So you can do like that butyric acid is there, which is cheesy vomit smell, which sounds bad, is bad. But so it's you mix cheesy vomit in with other things to make uh like different flavors. My favorite is you take um you take diacetyl, which is butter aroma, and I forget the other one that goes with popcorn, right?
+
+[20:00] There's another one. You hit those two with popcorn and you hit it, and then you go you press the butyric acid, which is the cheesy vomit, and now it's smart food. I mean, it's my favorite. That's my favorite one of the of the ones, and like it all lights up. So go check it out.
+
+[20:12] Uh oh, we have a we read your brain waves and we print out what your brain waves are when you're on different candies. So you chew on a white rabbit, you you think about it, and we record your brain waves and then uh sell that to big data. I'm kidding, we don't sell it to big data. But uh yeah, we give you a printout of uh, you know, kind of what you're thinking about and what that food does for you. Yada yah, fun.
+
+[20:33] Yeah, great great exhibition. Everyone should go check it out. Yeah, yeah. Did you were you on did you work at the museum when we had the first one up, or did you come on for chow? Chow.
+
+[20:42] Did you go to the original exhibition? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it's a it's a good reboot. Yeah, no, no, it is, it is.
+
+[20:46] Yeah, it's great. All right. Very kid friendly too, which is worth mentioning. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[20:51] We're not gonna light your kid on fire if you bring them. I mean, not on purpose, right? Yeah, right. Yeah. The only problem, it's upstairs, right?
+
+[20:58] So if you go to Dumbo, so this is do they still have weddings out by the by the Brooklyn Bridge Park? Probably. It used to be when I was uh, you know, in the early 2000s, uh, like right when Booker was born, like but even before we had Dax, we would every weekend we would walk across the Brooklyn Bridge, which was awesome, you know what I mean? And then we would go get ice cream at the ice cream factory there in Brooklyn in the in the park, and then uh just watch wedding after wedding after wedding after wedding after wedding after wedding. Like the limos would come up with like a bear zip tied to the front.
+
+[21:30] They would come out, take a billion photos of the, you know, at the water by the bridges, and then get back in the vehicle, out. And so we would just sit and we'd be like, what do you think? Sea foam? What do you think? Sea foam?
+
+[21:40] Sea foam? Lavender? Sea foam. What? Sea foam.
+
+[21:43] Sea foam was like the at that time was the the bride's uh the whatever bridesmaids dress to get, and then we would go get a mudslide cookie at uh Jacques Therese. Jacques Therese's mudslide cookies, excellent. And that where Jacques Therese might still be have a thing there, right across the street in what used to be the empty buildings where we are. Upstairs, second floor on the riverside. So don't I mean you can go through the non riverside, but go over there.
+
+[22:05] By the way, I can't. Why do people go to that neighborhood and stand in the middle of a real street and take pictures? Because of the backdrop, Dave, it looks great for the Instagram. What the hell? It's really annoying.
+
+[22:18] It sucks. No. Oh my God, don't go. You would have no, you would lose your mind. I mean, like, and I'm trying to ride a bike up the street.
+
+[22:30] I'm like, yo, this is a street. You know what I mean? This is a street. Like some of us live in this city, and like I'm gonna bike, and it's already hard to bike around there because I don't know which way any of those streets go. Darn streets go.
+
+[22:42] You know what I mean? Anyway. Uh L Butts writes in. Uh, by the way, uh, and I think I said this yesterday, not buttes. I said this last time.
+
+[22:52] This is the second half of their cray. L butts. Uh, would like to know uh what else the spinzall can do uh besides clarification. Would love to know if there's a resource available, and if not, maybe the Discord could come together to create one. I've heard of butters, oils, etc.
+
+[22:59] Now I've heard of those too. I like the butter. It's not technically butter, I don't think. It's just like heavily, heavily clotted uh cream. I don't know that it's actually inverted the emulsion.
+
+[23:18] So butter, you have turned a uh an oil in water emulsion into a water in oil emulsion. So the continuous phase of butter is oil, and the continuous phase of cream is water. And that's why there is such a sharp break between when you're churning, between uh before it's butter and after it's butter, right? Uh I'm pretty sure that the spinzall is not breaking the emulsion, but the stuff that you get is concentrated in butter fat up to the level of like butter, but you haven't inverted the emulsion. I think it's delicious.
+
+[23:59] Even Nastasia, who hates most things, you like that, right, Saz? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I forgot to mention this.
+
+[24:08] Uh, when uh Grubstreet put out the article on the Bar Contra, the only comment was from uh a guy named Carl Hungis, which uh uh Joe pointed out is the nihilist from the Big Lebowski, German nihilist from the Big Lebowski. And uh his comment, he's super excited for for the project. Asterisks, roll's eyes, asterisks. You know, it's like you know, it's like when you're making comments on like people's work, it's like at least be like inventive. Like, you know, people are real people, you know what I mean?
+
+[24:44] Anyway, uh, Carl Hungis. If indeed that is your name. Uh, all right, anyway. Uh, so uh, what do you like better, Stas? You like the butter or you like the oil better in the spinzel?
+
+[25:01] Um that's hard. I don't know. You know, I like the butter, I think because when it's on bread, because you can't get something like that. You can get delicious oil. You can call Captain Captain Oily and have him send you a delicious oil, and that oil is gonna stay good.
+
+[25:20] But that butter like thing out of this, like it's just so fresh tasting. If you get good cream, if you get good cream. I don't know. That's uh that maybe my favorite. And you sprinkle salt on it.
+
+[25:30] Remember, we used to like just I forget where we get the bread, but you get a good baguette and that and that that tranche of like butter like stuff out of the spinz all, some salt, glass of glass of rose champagne. That's the money. You know what I mean? I don't know. But the oil is good because we would make it really like fresh and and garlicky and stuff.
+
+[25:51] That's it's hard to say. Um would love to have a compiled list of functions as well as recipes. There is, in fact, that, and Quinn, is it is the manual and the recipe stuff online yet, or are we still working on it? Are we gonna put new ones on? Yeah, yeah, we're still gonna we still gotta work on it.
+
+[26:05] But again, in for the patrons in the Discord, there's no recipe forum. So everything everything for the spinzel will eventually be at booker and Dex.com in a recipe section. But you will also be posting some maybe experiments or other recipes um on Patreon Discord. Yeah, and actually, you know what? How about this?
+
+[26:32] Because like if you buy the spinzall, obviously we're going to give you recipes to use it because that would be ridiculous. You know what I mean? Like uh so but maybe you know if someone gives a good recipe we'll credit you and we'll put it on their thing with your name on it. Cause why wouldn't we do that? Yeah.
+
+[26:46] Uh you're helping us so why wouldn't we give you the the credit for it? Um yeah. So like there's other weird things that I so like uh when Nastasia and I came out with the first go around of this, we did the uh 12 days of spins sp 12 days of spinning or whatever and we had to come up with a new technique for each day which like you know so after a while you run out right so it's like oh uh you know we're gonna do continuous mode today oh we're gonna do batch mode today so with um one of the ones that we did that was really weird was we fractionated fats. So I I packed I crushed ice and packed crushed ice into the bowl uh into the main bowl so that the rotor wouldn't hit it but that it would you know be cold and then put uh melted uh chicken fat into the into the rotor and spun it so that the heavier like the stuff that would solidify we could solidify and separate out the solidified to do like cold fractioning so that we could get the more solid fat and then use chicken fat to make pie crust you know here's a question you know what it tasted would that work sorry. Yeah.
+
+[28:02] Would that work? If it was just cold if I put this say it again. If you put the spin ball outside. And it was at the right temperature. Would that just work?
+
+[28:13] Yeah. Sure. What temperature do you think? I mean, it any anything below the solidification point. And then you just gotta stop when you solidify the amount that you want.
+
+[28:24] You know what I mean? Um so, you know, when oil I I gotta remember this way, because it's been a while since I've done it, but oil, I believe, like most things, unlike water, oil, when it crystallizes, I believe gets denser. So it will separate out and the fat the solid will stick to the outside of the of the rotor. I don't know what kind of delta you need. It all depends on on which which fats that you're doing.
+
+[28:49] I mean, you could technically do it to, you know, almost any fat until the plastic got brittle. You know what I mean? Uh depending on the on the solid fat uh ratio of it. I mean, there's a bunch of there's a bunch of bull crap. But the the pie was good.
+
+[29:04] What else do you want out of life? Pie was good, not greasy, you know what I mean? Uh but it's a pain. No one so like I I stopped doing a lot of development on things that were fun but not useful for people in um in the real life. Like pea like pea butter, like modernist modernist cuisine, one of their big things they did with centrifuge was pea butter, right?
+
+[29:24] So they would blend up like you know, like an entire truckload of peas, and then they would spin it in a centrifuge, and then they would harvest off the top of that this very bright green fat from the pea, and then you have like oceans of pea pulp, which I guess you could use the pea pulp to make split pea soup or something, or and then like I guess bulk that up with cream, a different form of fat, and then have this like rarified ingredient pea butter. And yeah, the spinz all can do that, but I'm like, really? I mean, like, that's the kind of thing you do once, and you're like, yep, and then that's it. You know what I mean? Like, I was focusing more on stuff that or trying to focus on stuff where I was like, yeah, like a working cook might want to do this for their hand, cream and peas, and make like a pea butter, real butter hybrid.
+
+[30:14] You could try it. Uh I mean, the the issue with uh that is like, you know, how much of that is you know, like so with peas, it's basically like all different various le there's some pea liquid, then there's pea butter, and then there's there's uh the solids. I mean, you we'd have to try it to find out try try it, try it to try it and find out. You know what I mean? Like how much it's better than just doing things traditionally.
+
+[30:41] You know what I mean? That's that's my problem with things like ultrasonic homogenizers. Everyone's like, ooh, ultrasonic homogenizer. I can make, I can, and the you know, the main thing that an ultrasonic homogenizer can do is make milk-like emulsions with milk-like quantities of oil. So between two and four percent fat make emulsions that way.
+
+[30:58] And it can do that. And I'm like, great. You know what else can do that? Uh uh, a Vitamix and some Xanthem and some freaking gum Arabic. You know what I mean?
+
+[31:06] So it's like I've always tried to focus on like things that not just that you can do, but that there's a reason to do. You know what I mean? Like, that's the I mean, I enjoyed doing things just once, just for just for giggles, but I mean, it's like not, you know, I mean, there's a difference between something for giggles and something that you expect people to do. No, anyway. I didn't do it this week, but I did actually taste it this week.
+
+[31:31] Obviously, a a staple of a spindle is making, you know, some form of streamed or Greek yogurt. So I did oh yeah, that's make a uh Greek yogurt gelato, which is really good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You appreciate it getting the solids uh solids jacked up. What'd you do with the wet?
+
+[31:50] I haven't found I haven't used it yet, but I did say it. Make a 50 brick syrup shake cocktails with it. Yeah. That's what you do. Um I have a ca I've developed a calculator, because obviously when you're spinning, you can spin it shorter or longer, but you don't know exactly how much we're removing beforehand.
+
+[32:17] But I have a calculator that measures okay, you punch in how much whey was removed, and then it'll it will adjust the recipe uh based on sort of the fat content of your final product. So as but you then you have to make sure that you're using the same inputs every time, same volume, same inputs. Right. Uh no, you can adjust. You say how much dirty yogurt you're spinning or streaming, how much weight has been removed, and then exactly and how learning how linear is it?
+
+[32:50] How linear is it? Because like the uh uh this is the thing I always worry about. Like I've I was doing a lot of nut milk stuff today, more book crap, a lot of nut milk stuff. Oh my god, so boring. Is there anything more boring than making very precise amounts of nut milk?
+
+[33:03] Probably. And by the way, I'll say this. I've had very good luck with nut milk bags, except this one that I use today to decide to use for all of my tests. It seems leaked. It seems leaked.
+
+[33:15] Anyway, uh, so like I wonder have you seen how linear it is? If you take the same amount of, if you if you take the same yogurt and you do it for the same amount of time and you don't fully fill the rotor, do you get the same answer every time? Then is it linear? Or are the losses different and the amount that it spins different depending on the load in the rotor? That's what I'd be curious about.
+
+[33:38] No, I don't know. But again, I what I did, I just I kept tracking the total amount that went in and the total amount of way that came out. Yeah, well, there's a variable. Do a calculator. Do uh do a half rotor and see whether or not you get the same answer with the same inputs.
+
+[33:53] You know what I mean? I'm curious to know. Yeah, Quinn's the Quinn's captain calculator, loves a calculator. He did a calculator for uh what did you do? You did a calculator for uh for uh key lime uh key lime.
+
+[34:04] Yeah, key lime acid. Key lime uh acid adjust key lime pie, key lime variants. Uh by the way, I'll say this also. We talked about glass it on the air. I did some calculations and a whole lot of glycerin in that recipe.
+
+[34:16] So I did a variant, uh, so that I now call that glassid, like heavy glacier, and I now make a glassid light, like a light glassid that has less glycerin in it. And I did a side-by-side test, and the drink was as good until it got extremely diluted, it was as good with the less glycerin. So I've now moved to a lower percentage glycerin. So now my new glasid is 40% glycerin by volume, uh, the balance water, you know, with the acid added. Uh whereas my old one was 60% by volume.
+
+[34:48] You know what I'm saying? And by by the way, glycerin, quite heavy, quite heavy. So simple syrup, water, roughly one gram per milliliter. Simple syrup, roughly 1.23. Glycerin, roughly 1.26.
+
+[35:02] Heavy. And so most people want to know how many grams of glycerin they're consuming. So if I give you 60% by volume, oh, that's a lot of glycerin. You know what I mean? That's like that's a big weight of glycerin on.
+
+[35:12] So I like I'm tone it down a little bit. Okay. I mean, makes sense, yeah. Toning it down, baby. Might as well do it there.
+
+[35:14] I don't tone it down anywhere else. Uh Monty, when I soak my kidney beans, they split, even if I salt the water. According to McGee, salting should prevent splitting when cooking. I do have hard water. Is that the problem?
+
+[35:31] Monty, here's what you're not telling me. Are you saying that when you don't soak the kidney beans, they don't split? Because that doesn't make any sense to me, right? The main thing about soaking is, and so the salt during the soak helps water penetrate. The more water penetrates the bean, the higher the water content of the bean when it starts, the faster the bean will cook, right?
+
+[35:50] That makes sense. And the more evenly it will cook. The reason beans split is because the outside gets kind of over hydrated before the inside is hydrated. Couple that with the fact that most of us uh have too high of a boil on our beans and the skin's split. This is why if you take your beans and you cook them 45%, uh, sorry, uh not 45%, 45 minutes is in my head.
+
+[36:14] If you cook your beans like 75% of the way done, but they're still hard and they're intact, and you then just keep it topped with water and put it in a low oven, like 250, 300, right? Then nothing's gonna split because you're not roll boiling it, right? And everything is happening more gently. It's just the speed at which you're pushing the stuff through and the violence of the boil that's doing it. That's like how many times have you had I'll give you like a another thing.
+
+[36:40] How many times have you done this? You have the beans, you open it, they look perfect, you put the spoon in, wrap, wrap, wrap, and now you got a bunch of broken beans with split skins, right? It's so like the trick is is you want to be very, you want to get them close, get them close to done without splitting them, and then be gentle at the end. Add some acid at the end. As soon as they're soft enough that you don't want them to split anymore, acid will uh will strengthen the uh the the pectin in them and kind of stop them from breaking down anymore, uh, then low oven.
+
+[37:12] But don't add acid before they're done or they ain't never gonna get soft. Am I answering this question? I don't know that the hard water, hard water, if it hard water is gonna make it take longer for your uh, let's see, hard is more basic. The more basic your water is, the faster your beans will cook. So the softer they'll get.
+
+[37:28] And so that could be making them uh like and and if couple that with boiling on the stove, and that could be splitting them apart uh faster. I don't know. Um, you know, I am fortunate to live in New York City where the water is like very nothing. You know what I mean? It's like very so it's pretty soft.
+
+[37:49] That's why I like showers in New York, if you have good pressure, are good. Like you take a shower in New York City and you're like, oh, I'm clean. I'm clean. The city is maybe a pile of filth. I am clean.
+
+[38:01] You know what I mean? Anyway, uh what do you think, Quinn? You were gonna add something to uh to uh Monty's bean bean woes? I was gonna say if the water is hard, wouldn't calcium also reinforce the structure a little bit? Oh, yeah, yeah.
+
+[38:15] So if it's hard because of calcium, which it always is correct, calcium is any calcium in the water is going to uh make them take forever to cook. Yeah, I don't want calcium in that water. Uh another problem you have, Monty, is that you're using kidney beans. I'm kidding, I just don't like kidney beans. I mean, like the thing is, kidney beans are fine.
+
+[38:34] They're fine. They're fine. Kidney beans are fine. But like, you know, how about pinto beans? Pinto beans are delicious.
+
+[38:39] Would you ever, John, would you ever choose a freaking kidney bean over a pinto bean? Or a black bean? No. Love a good black bean. Yeah.
+
+[38:48] Yeah. Yeah. The two beans where I'm like, I see them at the store and they're fine beans. I got in big trouble on the internet for saying that I didn't like them. You know what I mean?
+
+[38:57] It's not that I don't like them, but kidney beans have a thick skin. They're not like, they're not like a. So I can insult them because they have a thick skin. Uh, but it's like, they're not like, I don't know, it's it's never the bean I'm like, oh yeah. Kidney beans.
+
+[39:14] What about those Rancho Gordo beans? Yeah, yeah. He also. He he he went to bean privately. He's like, yeah, yeah, kidney beans not the best bean.
+
+[39:21] You know what I mean? He didn't want to get into it. He didn't want to get into it on the internet because he didn't want to get lamb basted. You know what I mean? But he's like, you know, it's just not, you know, it's it's it's a bean.
+
+[39:32] It's a good, it's a it's a bean, but it's not the bean, you know, in in a world, in a world where you could choose any bean for roughly the same price. You know what I mean? I could get pintos for the same price as kidneys, you know? I think people like kidneys because the color is nice. Maybe.
+
+[39:49] Are you sad when you take a good looking bean and you cook and it just turns one color bean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think anyone has ever cracked that nut.
+
+[39:59] No one's ever made like one of those awesome looking beans, stay awesome looking. You know what I mean? Yeah. So what are you supposed to do? Serve a little raw cup of beans next to it, be like, it just once looked awesome.
+
+[40:09] Thanks, buddy. So once with a really nice deep purple hue and everything. Yeah, gone. Yeah, gone. Dead.
+
+[40:14] Yeah. I will say this. Uh, with kidneys, especially, if you're gonna do that, and and black beans, is that it uh pre-blanching with hot and dumping will dump a lot of color. So if you care about color, don't do that. Uh Daniel Gritzer did a lot of tests on that.
+
+[40:30] Go talk to. What about that as a service flourish, though, Dave? Like bringing the raw beans table side. Well, I mean, like on the one hand, I would eat them. I would be like, crap on you, jerk, and I would eat them and then like be coughing up bean powder.
+
+[40:44] But maybe if I just showed you the bean and then didn't let you have it. That's what I mean. Just show it. Yeah, you know. Here's the move.
+
+[40:51] You print or you print a photo of the raw beans on the plate, or you have a little actual glass chamber built into the plate. So as you're eating a sort of meal, like discolored cooked beans, you're revealing the cool looking raw beans. So like the tray is like resin, like with like Yeah, it's got a diorama on your so how about we do this? So how about this? In the 70s, like if you were a kid in the 70s, I don't know, I can only vouch for the 70s because that's when I was a kid, right?
+
+[41:27] You would go to school and in art class, they would hand you a pile of beans and a bunch of glue, and you would draw a picture on the paper and you put lines of glue down, and then you would put all beans, different colored beans. So like maybe you could do, I don't know, what I did was a parrot. I did a parrot out of beans, and then you hang that on the wall, your mom frames it under glass until bugs get to it. And then you have glass with like bugs and and and and bean drip coming down. But you could do that with the beans, like make a picture, and then be you could point out which beans on the parrot you're eating.
+
+[42:03] It's like, uh ma'am, you have the you have the beak, you have the beans from the beak. Uh you know what I mean? Like something like that, and in a tray underneath. Yeah, yeah, we could do it. Could do.
+
+[42:12] I'm gonna call call Fabulous and Jeremiah and see what they had to say about that. Uh new concept, new concept. It's all bean trays, just bean trays. Anyway. Uh Mathman.
+
+[42:24] Uh did Dave ever make olive oil butter with different edible waxes and get any of that to work well. He talked about it last year, but I'd never heard of follow-up. Yes, yes, I did. Uh so I was using olive oil and then mixtures of coconut fat and um coconut fat and uh cocoa butter, depending on what I was trying to mimic. Uh to try and I don't have the numbers on me right now.
+
+[42:49] Uh I did get it to work, and I could I I could use enough, and I could make biscuits with it. That's what I was testing, biscuits, because biscuits. Oh, I I know Nastasia doesn't like biscuits. I love biscuits, but uh everyone in my family would rather have bread to biscuits. You know what I mean?
+
+[43:07] So like they're like, if you could make but the problem is I can make bread like I mean, I can make biscuits like this, you know what I mean? Like, whereas like bread, I have to think about it. You know what I mean? But they were always like, yeah, I'd rather have the bread to the biscuit. I don't know.
+
+[43:21] What about anyone anyone here is gonna choose the biscuit over the bread? Well, if you're actually dinner time. And it and and in the morning, they'd rather I make the pancakes or the waffles. You know what I mean? Anyway, so I don't make as many biscuits as as as I'd like to.
+
+[43:39] Yeah, I got it to work. I mean, the issue was is that I would do that, and then I would do lard, and then I would do butter. And despite what you know, history tells you, everyone in my family was like, butter. And I'm like, well, what about they're like, the butter? And then like I I'd be like, but I did butter.
+
+[43:57] You know what I mean? So like every time I would do side by sides, they would all want the butter one. So I stopped kind of experimenting. I could get back to it. I could, you know, I I'll try to remember to bring the numbers.
+
+[44:08] Quinn tell me I'll try to remember to bring the numbers on what I tested if I can dredge them up. We have a live question in the Discord. You want to answer that? I don't know, do I made your pork chili recipe this weekend. Never made a no bean chili before you have a similarly insanely good chili template for a veg chili.
+
+[44:35] I m Ies and no so I have what I call chili beans, which is beans with a similar flavor to chili, right? Uh but it's not exactly the same. I can I'll go try to f I'll try to find that I'll go try to find the recipe. I mean a lot of people work on this I would get get some yondu because that stuff is delicious. Uh and it helps uh recipes like that um tremendously.
+
+[45:05] I'm trying to remember you need you need something to sub out for the chicken stock. So most veg stock and you can make your own veg stock but it's kind of a pain in the butt to make a decent veg what do you have a good veg dock you make John? Kind of no what do you use? There's there's good veg bases out there now like uh you know I don't know. I gotta I gotta remember it.
+
+[45:24] But it's otherwise pretty similar. The trick when you're doing beans as I said is don't add any acids from the get at the get go. You gotta get it where it's going. So the the trick is I you peppers aren't aesthetic enough to give you a problem. So I always do start with the onions, cook the onions way down, throw in um garlic, cook that down, then make sure you have enough oil, right?
+
+[45:48] Then uh beans and uh water and the chili peppers. Now you can pre-blend, like the I usually use some mixture of like ancho, pasilla, and guajillo. You can get some mixture like that, or you can use whatever you like, I don't care what you use. But like I would blend that with uh the uh in a blender first with uh some of the water, just so that you don't have to post blend it later. I also the trick that I have in the pork chili is I de seed and uh and take the all the insides out of the peppers beforehand, both so that I can see if any are moldy, because you know, the a lot of the peppers when you open them are moldy.
+
+[46:24] So anyone who blindly throws dried chili peppers in, you're consuming like sometimes really nasty stuff. You've seen that, right, John? Yeah, real nasty. And also, you can add more pepper for a given amount of spice if you take out like a lot of the inside. So anyway, so you blend that with water, you put it in your beans, don't add tomato yet.
+
+[46:42] No tomato yet. I start with salt, right? I do add salt in the soak and I keep it in there and some sugar, and then you take the beans until they're basically done. Then you add uh tomato, right? And acid correct at that point, you know, correct all the stuff, and then put it in a in a in a low oven for a while to let it round and and finish out.
+
+[47:02] That's that's typically what I do. Uh I do also usually add to chili beans some fresh pepper as well, like some mix of green and and and red uh fresh, fresh. I'll also say that um the longer you cook your mixture of onion and pepper before you add the liquid, and I hate to say it because I would have thought this is crap, but I've been testing it recently. Just the better the better the result, the better that stuff tastes. You know what I mean?
+
+[47:32] Like just cooking that stuff down until it's flashed off most of its moisture, even though you're gonna add more, just seems to make a better flavor. And it's not that I really understand it, but it just seems to make a better flavor. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, I don't know, I haven't done as much testing as well. Yeah, it was a big difference.
+
+[47:52] Yeah. Sweating was the right way to go. Don't skip on it. Yeah. Made a tomato soup, by the way, this uh weekend, uh, because uh it was my nephew's birthday, and he likes grilled cheese.
+
+[48:05] It's his thing. He likes grilled cheese. And so Jim was like, well, you should make grilled cheese and tomato soup. So I was like, okay. And uh so I cooked the hell out of the onions beforehand.
+
+[48:19] I I tripled the onions because it's me, and I just I cooked it for an hour and 20 minutes on the on the brevel induction. So I just put it, I put the induction at 220 and or two 220, 25, oil uh butter, and just let it go. Like every 15 minutes I would come stir it, come back. That's the genius of the of the of that induction unit, that control freak is that I was not even concerned. You know how when you put something on the oven, you're like, is the is the flame gonna go out?
+
+[48:48] Is it gonna scorch? No. I don't care. Oh no, terrible news though. Guess what?
+
+[48:54] Guess what finally gave up the ghost, I think? I think it's finally dead. My rice cooker. Twenty years. 20 years that thing's been serving me.
+
+[49:02] It's died twice and come back from the grave. I plugged it in and it has a new bad behavior, and I don't think it's gonna come back. So I'm I think I'm back in the in the market for a rice cooker. I mean, 20 years is a good, it's a good long run. Respectable.
+
+[49:14] You know, it's been through some stuff. Booker made me remove the uh the speaker from it. So it's the silent rice cooker. It's the, you know, like uh he used to really, really hate the music that the Zoji Rushi would play. And so he made me made me eviscerate the speaker, but uh I'm gonna miss that thing.
+
+[49:37] Also, like I wasn't expecting to spend because those things are expensive, like a couple hundred bucks more. But I gotta get the neuro fuzzy. I gotta get the induction. The question is, and someone helped me out, someone has experience. Should I get the one that does pressure or just a gimmick?
+
+[49:51] Hmm. Hmm. The pressure. Yeah. And is there anyone that can beat Zoji Rushi?
+
+[50:01] I mean, like, if you're in Asia, like Zoji Rushi is just like a mid-tier good brand. But is there one that you can get here that is that beats the Zojirushi? Or is it like, does its rice reign supreme here in the U.S.? You know what I mean? I don't know.
+
+[50:17] I think there was a Korean brand I heard about, but I can't recall. I mean, makes sense. I think weren't rice cookers invented in Korea. I don't know. I don't know.
+
+[50:31] I don't remember. Uh all right. Ches writes in, hey, Dave mentioned that when he first started carbonating, he went on a wine carbonating spree before realizing that not all wines are improved by carbonation. Is there a good way to tell beforehand if a wine will taste better or worse when carbonated, or is it purely trial and error? Yeah, sorry, it's trial and error.
+
+[50:50] Like you're more, it's more likely that unless you think that unless you think this wine is not good on its own, most of the time it's not better if you carbonate it. You know what I mean? Uh some things that aren't weren't at the time normally carbonated, it's just really fun to have a version of that wine carbonated. Like it's really fun to have like a Grishminer that's carbonated or a Riesling that's carbonated, you know what I mean? It's fun.
+
+[51:20] Uh you know, I wouldn't do it to a high-end one. You know what I mean? Um, you know, most if you think about uh champagne versus other wines, if you've ever flattened out champagne in a vacuum machine like I have, it's not so pleasant when you flatten it. You know what I mean? So like I would tend towards stuff that's kind of a little uh a little acidic, a little too acidic, maybe.
+
+[51:43] Uh, you know, carbonate, give it a try. Let me know. You know, that that's something we should go on the Discord there. It's like uh people just this wine, better carbonated. But you have to be honest with yourself.
+
+[51:54] You have to taste it both ways and be honest with yourself. Uh Will Robinson writes in good old Will, uh, whose mom is the uh is the uh turkey turkey tech line, turkey tech line. But remember this even if your turkey's not she'll help you. You know, she's like that's that's just kind of people they are because they know that next time you'll probably buy one of theirs. Maybe not though, right?
+
+[52:19] Butterball. Oh my god, cheese Louise. Sorry, Will. Jeez. Oh god, butterball.
+
+[52:26] Who owns Butterball? Are they their own company? We're looking it up. Ah, sorry, man. What a what a idiot.
+
+[52:35] You know what? When you get old, you just get dumb. Not Tyson, is it? No. No.
+
+[52:40] They own everything. Yeah. C-Bord Corporation. They're owned by Josh Seaborg. Agribusin.
+
+[52:47] The bartender. Anyway. Man, I feel bad. Well, we'll bleep it. Since we since we had a question shortage before, wondering if Dave could uh would be cool tackling the cavitation.
+
+[53:00] Okay, well cavitation variance between uh EC infusions and ultrasonic infusions. Memory is fallible, mine more than most, but I don't recall speaking on it. Um, okay, okay, okay, okay. So what we're talking about is rapid infusion with uh nitrous oxide versus ultrasonic, right? Now, ultrasonic homogenizers do in fact I think they're talking about ultrasonic mass.
+
+[53:27] What? Well, whatever. Like, like those do work by actually cavitating. So nitro rapid infusion is not a cavitation phenomenon. Here's how this works.
+
+[53:41] You come up with a technique, you publish it. Some other person is like, I know that technique. That's from blah blah blah. It's it's nitrogen cavitation. It is not.
+
+[53:52] It is not. There is not a cavitation phenomenon happening with uh with nitrous oxide, right? It is it is a solubility shift and like pressure in, pressure out, not cavitation. Ultrasonic, whether it be bath or with a homogenizer, you are literally like faster than uh faster than you can hear, i.e. over 20,000 Hertz, right?
+
+[54:15] Rapidly pushing the liquid back and forth so that you create minute vacuum bubbles that then collapse with great force, right? That's cavitation, and uh and cause all sorts of damage or knock the dirt off your jewelry or you know, clean out the inside of your glassware. And if you stick your hand in an ultrasonic bath, you're like, oh, that tingles because that's cavitation of the water right around where your hand is. That's cavitation, right? Rapid infusion with nitrous, not cavitation, not cavitation.
+
+[54:49] Here's another thing people like to say blenders work by cavitation. Oh, yeah? No, they don't. You know what I mean? Like that's not how they work.
+
+[54:56] If they worked by cavitation, right, there would be a definite difference in sound between before they cavitated and afterwards. And if it was cavitating, right, it would be a vacuum being formed, not air, which means that as you blended, right, the volume wouldn't go up because as soon as the vacuum cavitated bubbles collapsed, they would be collapsed because it's a vacuum, because that's how cavitation works. In fact, like cavitation is a huge problem because if there was actually a lot of cavitation going on in a blender, the metal would get pitted. I mean, cavitation is violent. You know what I mean?
+
+[55:27] So I know everyone says cavitation in blenders. I don't buy it. I'm just not buying it. And it's not like I haven't looked at a lot of high-speed photography of blenders in action because I have, and I just don't buy it. Okay.
+
+[55:40] Uh so the difference between like uh the ultrasonic, uh, the ultrasonic infusions literally are working by cavitation, and I think they're just shaking the heck out of everything and pushing stuff in. I don't know that I've had anything where I'm like, the ultrasonic stuff can speed stuff up, right? Anything you do can speed stuff up. And so, like maybe it's useful for that, but like the ultras like ultrasound seawater and all this stuff, I just don't honestly get it. And it's coming from someone who owned one.
+
+[56:08] You know, I own the really expensive one, really hardcore one, the one that drives any young person out of a kitchen. And I was just like, I don't know, man. You know what I mean? I don't know. Uh whereas the the nitrous is just you use pressure.
+
+[56:23] Uh, you you make a gas that's soluble in the liquid and in fat, which is key. You use pressure to push that into the pores, then you release the pressure, and because uh the solubility changes rapidly, it boils back out again. So different. And like people do this all the time, right? They go on the they go on the web and they try to plant their own flag on something, saying something is something that it is not.
+
+[56:48] Why? What is even the point of that? You know what I mean? But they did that like right after we came out with the with the blog post, someone started saying it's cavitation. And right away I had to be like, no.
+
+[56:58] I mean, let look someone come prove me wrong, but good luck. You know what I mean? Uh answer the question, though. Did I answer the question? Yeah.
+
+[57:09] All right. Uh see. Uh last question from uh Jeff uh Kinoff. Uh we have a drink that we do that is uh pre-batched, essentially with gin matcha, lime, lime bitters. Wonder what lime bitters is.
+
+[57:26] What do you guys think lime bitters? It's very picture lime just basically. I mean you can buy bitter, you know. I don't think they're technically bitters. I mean I'm not thinking they're cold bitters, but they're not actually bitter, but they're there you know then somebody since somebody needs to get punished.
+
+[57:47] Right? If they're not bitters, somebody needs to get punished. You know what I mean? Anyway, we used to do a grapefruit bitters. I did it once because it lasts forever.
+
+[57:55] Right. So going back to like Booker and Dax's days, Chang hated any form of waste. So he got mad because we made so much gin and juice that you know we would get rid of all of our shells of uh of grapefruit. So I blended all of those shells with the pith and then put them into 100% ethanol to end up with a 50% alcohol bitters. Dropped all the pectin out of it and aged it.
+
+[58:21] It was good. That's bitter. Anyway, so uh gin macho, lime, lime bitters, simple syrup, coconut puree from the perfect puree. It breaks slightly and has tiny globules floating in it. Hasn't been bad enough not to serve.
+
+[58:33] Um, but wondering if there would be a quick fix or something to add or a process to change, like make sure to add X first to improve it. We have a really simple program, so we don't have much equipment. We basically brew tea, make simple syrup and dump the ingredients into a five uh gallon keg. Thanks for your help. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[58:47] So coconut, uh ask anybody. Coconut is the hardest thing to keep into uh solution as the temperature changes and as it dilutes, because coconut fat is one of the harder fats that you deal with. So it's very hard, like much harder than butter to keep that stuff emulsified. So even using like Ticaloid or you know, gum Arabic and Xanthan, you're gonna have some issues keeping coconut from breaking. This is why, if you look at the back of Coca Lopez, no relation, you'll see that it's full of hydrocolloids, like guar and all this stuff to keep it from breaking.
+
+[59:21] This is why Coca Lopez is like so good in drinks, and why you know people don't necessarily make their own products. Uh I used to talk to the guys at TIC Gums, and I was like, Yeah, coconut, and they're like, Yeah, coconut, big problem. I'll try to think about it more because uh it is a it is a good problem. Everybody likes uh everybody likes coconut. The problem with Coca Lopez is so dang sweet.
+
+[59:42] It's so dang sweet. Any of you guys Coca Lopez fans are having alternate? You know what's good to use? I know. Use a sweet and condensed uh coconut milk that uh that Don used to use at uh what's it called?
+
+[59:55] What's it called? Existing conditions. That stuff's good, also sweet, but very concentrated, so you know you're not adding as much liquid. Anyways, whatever. Use it instead of the simple syrup, whatever, cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center in New York City, New State Studios, joined as usual with John behind me. How are you doing, John? Doing great, thanks. Yeah?
+
+[0:20] Yeah, got Joe Hazen rocking the panels. What's up? Hey, how's everyone doing? Full house. Good, good, good.
+
+[0:25] Over in California, we got some Jackie Molecules and some Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How are you guys doing? Good. Yeah? Yeah.
+
+[0:32] Upper left, we got Quinn. Quinn, what's up? Hey, I'm good. And then right today we have on her publication day, one of our very favorite friends of the show, Arielle Johnson is here. Now, how do you want me to announce your book?
+
+[0:46] You want it in Broadway form, or do you want it in um or do you want it in uh monster truck form? Uh I think Monster Truck. Monster Truck Form? Flavorama. Flavor, flavor, flavor, flavorama.
+
+[1:02] Get it today at any bookstore near you, but especially Kitchen Arts and Letters, where Patreon members can get a discount. Why don't you tell them how to do that, John? Go to patreon.com slash cooking issues and sign up for one of the three awesome levels or you know, three awesome membership levels that we've got. Uh you got perks at all different levels, and at all of them you will get a discount to our friends at Kitchen Arts and Letters for discounts on great books like Ariel's. Yeah, so congratulations.
+
+[1:25] Thank you so much. I'm uh glad to be sharing this moment with you. And now I have the hard copy, not just the uh, you know. Ratty little PDF and uh you know, she drew all the you drew all the pictures in here, right? I did.
+
+[1:37] Yeah. So uh, you know, it's better at the hard copies better. Get the hard copy. Listen, is that just because I'm old or is it just because hard copy is better? I mean, for me, if I'm looking for like a specific piece of information, I prefer like digital.
+
+[1:50] Yeah, search fine. But if I'm flipping through something, always prefer a hard copy. So I don't know, maybe I'm old too. Yeah. Well, yeah, I won't ask you, right?
+
+[1:57] But you know, 33-year-olds right now, peak peak millennial. My sister's a peak millennial. Is she 33? Yeah. Oh, I didn't realize she was like, Yeah, yeah.
+
+[2:06] Yeah. I mean, I think she was born in 1990. Yeah, that no, that is peak millennial. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[2:10] So she's peaking. So is my sister, actually. Yeah, yeah. And so uh, yeah. And like a peak millennial, she, whenever she's pregnant, she eats raw kale and gets food poisoned.
+
+[2:21] Wow. Don't eat raw kale. Yeah, that sounds like uh bad plan. I don't think you should eat raw kale ever. Hmm.
+
+[2:28] I think you should cook it. I prefer it cooked, definitely. You know why? Because it tastes better. Too much cellulose.
+
+[2:34] Like I know, yeah. Just the people like, but if you slice it really, really thin. Yeah. Why though? Do you know what's better sliced that way?
+
+[2:42] Cabbage. Definitely. Yeah. Cabbage is delicious. Slice that way.
+
+[2:46] Cabbage, delicious. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kale tolerable.
+
+[2:49] Yeah. Well, and then like you cook cabbage, it gets like very soft, whereas like kale does hold up better. Yeah, you know why? Because that was bred for millennia. Yeah, to be tough as hell.
+
+[2:59] To be yeah, to be cooked. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[3:02] Cabbage. You know, you can boil it, you could eat it, you could crowd it. You know. Ferment it. Yeah.
+
+[3:06] Yeah. Yeah. Which we're gonna talk about. By the way, uh, you know, for those of you that were on the fence, like I I have to say, Flavorama. Uh James Beard Weasels, take note.
+
+[3:16] You gotta this book, you you gotta go get this book, is the thing about it, because I'm guessing. We're gonna go back and talk about our normal stuff, but I'm guessing. So the very last chapter of this is a whole kind of mini book on fermentation, and I think you're just kind of pissed that you didn't get wider publication on your very first fermentation book. And so you're just like slipping an extra just in at the end. Well, and it's it's nice, it's nice to, you know, present fermentation recipes that are exactly what I want and not for somebody else.
+
+[3:44] Somebody else, yeah. Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, you know, which I'm also fine doing. But uh, yeah, these are my my uh the things that I like.
+
+[3:51] Yeah, all right. All right. So uh before we do that, let's talk about uh anything that uh anyone has done in the uh in the intervening. Actually, it's been two weeks. Last week we had to uh cancel and uh we'll we'll get uh we're rescheduling with solo, right?
+
+[4:03] We're getting your back. It's already booked. Okay, when when for so people know. Uh April 16th. Okay.
+
+[4:11] Um, yeah. Yeah, so look great. Yeah. But my husband is actually the editor on that part. Oh, come on, for real?
+
+[4:17] Yeah, for real. That's so funny. That book is large. It is, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[4:20] I've I have a bone to pick with her on pressure cooking, however. Okay. She's anti-pressure cooking. Interesting. Yeah.
+
+[4:26] She's and insults me, not insults me personally, obviously, but like insults, she's like, uh, she's like, I'm not against you if you're uh living that pressure cooker life. I forget whether she uses a Y with it or not. But uh pressure cookers are good. I think the mistake people make with pressure cookers, you know, is they try to put a standard recipe into a pressure cooker and then it sucks. Yeah.
+
+[4:47] And they're like, why does it suck? She's like, it's great for broth. I'm like, I will have this argument with her. Why am I having this argument with you? And I wait till April.
+
+[4:54] I was all ready to have this argument. Not an argument, discussion. Yeah. Discussion. Anyway.
+
+[4:59] Yeah, it's great book, though. Yeah. Uh you guys are gonna be duking it out. How many different categories are there? Is there one for flavor?
+
+[5:07] Oh, at uh I have no idea. I mean, you know, like At the beard a thon? Not to not to like project a sense of false humility, but like for me to be able to do anything, I have to like tell myself it will go nowhere and I'll still do it and do a great job and won't care if nothing happens, because otherwise my like insane perfectionism will like completely paralyze me. So I haven't even thought about that, actually. Yeah, that's wise.
+
+[5:29] That's wise. Just gotta yeah, gotta like learn how to trick yourself. The other thing is that like anything else, like you're like it's you know, you have to get pushed by the right people who like who like your editor has to push that crap out of it. I suppose so, yeah. Yeah, to like it's such a trash can.
+
+[5:43] Everything is a trash can. Like uh all awards ceremonies are are filth. Extremely political. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I've never been involved with this.
+
+[5:52] But you know, I mean it's like, you know, well, you mean you've been at restaurants who play that 50 best game. Yeah, sure. It's trash. Sure. I mean, not trash.
+
+[6:00] Hey, hey, no offense, 50 best people. I'm just saying it's like it's like uh it's not uh let's say completely uh whatever. You know what I mean? It's like no, there's you know, there's a sense of like wanting to it's not bought and paid for that's cool, right? Yeah, yeah, but it's going too far.
+
+[6:17] But I mean, you know, but any country or city can pay to host the world's 50 best awards, and then uh all the world's 50 best voters are in your city eating in your city's restaurants. Right. So yeah, yeah. Or, you know, and you can know who those people are and you can reach out to them. Right, right.
+
+[6:35] Or like, you know, with uh IECP or James Beard, it's like what's what you know, you have to get kind of submitted, so you have to get pushed by your editor or by yourself or have it on you know on yourself, and like you know, it's better to be well known, and it's a whole thing. It's a whole thing. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, uh obviously I'm not gonna say like, oh, I don't care about awards because everyone loves people praising them, but like uh I care about them, I don't trust them. Yeah, I don't I don't know.
+
+[6:57] I mean, like, I think mo most of the good decisions in my life have come from choosing like interesting over prestigious. So like just gonna kind of keep it. Those are all the bad choices in my life. I'm just kidding, I'm just messing with me. Uh all right, so uh, you know, well, so this week you came out with a with a book.
+
+[7:13] I did. That's nice. Uh anyone else uh do anything interesting this week. Did you have any cooking things this week? Were you able to cook it all this week?
+
+[7:19] Uh I no, I did very little cooking. Yeah, makes sense. I wouldn't if I were you either. My dad was in town this weekend, so we were like out a lot. Out and about.
+
+[7:30] Yeah. You go any place good? Uh well, we went to Superiority Burger. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[7:34] Well, did I miss that? That's the event. Oh, yeah, it's happening tomorrow. Was I supposed to make drinks? You don't have to, but uh Empirical's bringing.
+
+[7:41] So, but you should come. All right, all right. Be at the party. I mean, you can make drinks if you want. But I don't need to work.
+
+[7:45] No, no, you don't need to work. All right. I was like, I was like, I think. No, no, no, sorry. I like I was biking over here.
+
+[7:50] I'm like, am I working? I didn't follow up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, fine. But uh, I guess I guess this is airing after it happens.
+
+[7:57] It's well, it's airing now if you're a Patreon. Okay, so if you're a Patreon and in New York and in town tomorrow, we're having a uh release party at Superiority Burger. Hey, another Patreon perk. You can only hear about this if you're on the Patreon. So eat it, non Patreon people.
+
+[8:11] And uh pay we have a caller? No, I'm not. But Patreon people can also call in, and I think someone is gonna call in because they said they were going to. Two 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507.
+
+[8:22] All right, Quinn. I know you got some stuff specifically that's also related to the book. What do you got? Yeah, well, I got a lot of stuff. I'll save some of it for another week back.
+
+[8:32] Uh well, I don't have a lot of time. Um I made a pressure cooker toasted cream. Nice and then centrifuged it into butter. Oh. And what centrifuge did you use, Quinn?
+
+[8:49] Oh, of course the spindle 2.0. We should be arriving in North America in about a week. Nice. Yeah, actually, it's like landing the 16th and then clearing a couple days after that, right? Yeah.
+
+[9:05] Yeah, yeah. And I think the ones in Asia are already in the mail, I think. So the interesting thing, sorry to get back to the butter. Um back to the butter. Forget the business back to the butter.
+
+[9:17] All right, go for it. The brown butter flavor in the butter itself is you know, on the milder side, because obviously the flavor is mostly from the proteins, but then you get a really intense, like toasted buttermilk. Which is interesting. Anytime someone says buttermilk on its own like that, uh, I have the wham songs in my head with the word buttermilk instead of jitterbug. The buttermilk.
+
+[9:46] The buttermilk like that. And then the whole song's playing in my head, and we'll be for the rest of it. And now it is for all of us too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Although, I mean, but back to back to the the the different flavors in the buttermilk and butter.
+
+[9:57] I I would posit that uh you know, you're creating all of these new aroma molecules in the Myard reaction, and some of them are more nonpolar, more like greasy than others. So you're getting like we prefer greasy. Greasy, greasy, uh oleophilic. Yeah. Um, so yeah, so uh d any of the ones that are like a bit more cool with water are gonna like dissolve in higher concentrations in the buttermilk, and then the ones that only like fat will be like in the butter, so you'll get this like different flavor expression in both.
+
+[10:27] It's the same when you're distilling rose essential oil, uh, you'll like distill it with steam and it'll collect like water and the essential oil will float on top. Then the water is like that's rose water. So uh every bit of the rose smell that's like more water soluble will like dissolve into that. So then you should throw that away because it's trash. Well, it smells it's a different flavor than rose essential oil.
+
+[10:47] Yeah. So uh yeah, partitioning is what we would call that. What's the worst? Uh what's the worst flour water? I mean, I only know rose and orange, really.
+
+[10:58] Which one do you? I mean, I don't I prefer orange, but yeah, yeah. All right. Uh uh, Quinn, did you add any uh base to that? Any baking soda up in that?
+
+[11:07] Yeah, yeah, actually, the actual cream toasting procedure is based off of ideas and food uh blog. Aki and Alex Talbot, yeah, I do uh 0.5% uh baking soda and the in the cream. Um previously I've just toasted the cream and then cultured it, which is also really delicious. But this one I dwent straight from pressure cooker, just chill overnight, and then I did culture the buttermilk afterward, and I made biscuits, which were also really good. Cultured it after I have a you know, like I don't know, calling it toasted just bothers me.
+
+[11:47] You know what I'm saying? Just but let me ask you. Brown? Call it browned, yeah. Yeah, brown, yeah.
+
+[11:53] Uh did you neutralize it afterwards or no? No, because I had a little bit of like cultured separately cultured buttermilk um already. So I just mixed them before you're before you centrifuged it. No after. Okay.
+
+[12:11] So Dr. Johnson. Uh one of the things I'm curious about is the effect. And Quinn, did was your yield lower than normal? Because uh the cooking the cooking the cream is messing with um I guess it's not a protein phenomenon, though, it's a fat phenomenon in butter.
+
+[12:26] So it shouldn't really matter what you do to the it's not like whip, it's not like whipped cream where you need both to work, right? Yeah. Well, when you I so I know when you melt butter, it's hard, it's like and then chill it, it doesn't retain the like texture of butter because it's like a water in the water. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[12:45] Um, but I I I think I mean, presumably, if if it worked for Quinn, then that's the uh empirical empiricism, Trump's theory. Yeah, I mean, because I know that like the you know, there's always like for a long time when I was younger, people were like, you can't you can't heat cream up and then whip it again. You can. Done it so many times. Uh-huh.
+
+[13:04] You know what I mean? But you just have to let it sit for a long time in the fridge, and then you can you can whip it. I don't I have never done a yield test. I mean, I think the important part is that the fats are cold because they need to be like crystallized to hold the whipped cream structure. Actually, that's been a lot of my problem with cultured butter is not adequately chilling it after the culture step before the churning to and then I have issues when I'm doing the stuff I'm doing.
+
+[13:27] The other thing I've said on the air a bunch of times is that I really like this centrifuge in scare quotes butter. I don't believe it's actually butter. I think it's this like triple cream. Oh, okay. So you're like taking out a lot of the water, but not enough for it to count as well.
+
+[13:43] Yeah, I don't I don't believe it's inverting. I I believe that it is still an oil and water emulsion. I've never I've never looked at it under a microscope. Or whether in other words, like it's a solid, right? But I wonder whether it's more like a gel, so that there's a continuous water phase.
+
+[14:02] Like an oleo gel. Yeah, yeah. Like a continuous water phase thing. Sitch, right? Because I it just doesn't look like an inverted.
+
+[14:11] And is it like spreadable? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Do you ever do you ever go to England and get like they have like they have many more kinds of cream there than we have.
+
+[14:21] So I mean, like, you know, they have clotted cream, and you can buy like that one little kind of clotted cream here in the jar. They have like a lot of kinds of clotted cream. And but also like pouring cream, which is like cream that is the texture of like a thick, thick sauce. Yeah. So yeah, so maybe you're approaching that.
+
+[14:38] The kind of no man's land between like 40% fat and like 80%. So uh we have a caller, I'm gonna put them on the air, but then I'm gonna finish this. Uh so uh I had an issue with that. First of all, uh you know, as an a chauvinist, like I am loath to say that the British are better than us at things, but their cream game is so crazy that when I was in London last, I asked for cream to make a cream syrup. And American heavy cream, you can make a 50 uh like a 50-50 syrup with it, and it comes out, it's like 66 bricks water based based on the fat.
+
+[15:09] There it just turns to sludge because the fat content is so much higher, I had to milk it up. I was like, oh, you you and your good cream, you jerks. Caller, you're on the air. Oh, this perfect time. I was gonna call and talk about butter.
+
+[15:21] This is Jonathan from Minneapolis, Math Man, otherwise you call Mass Math. Ah, all right. On the from the from the Patreon group. And I wanted to say thanks uh for answering my question the other week about kitchen at the laboratory recommendations. And Ariel, I had no idea that you wrote that section on the stretchy ice cream.
+
+[15:38] That was really cool to read. Thank you. Yeah, that was like my first uh research uh paper thing. So glad you liked it. Yeah.
+
+[15:46] Yeah. And I to go straight into the butter too. So I've been trying to make cultured butter, and I've been ending up with more cheesy flavors than buttery flavors lately. Like I I want more of the diacetyl, nicer flavor, and end up with stuff that tastes like cheese at the end of it. And I know Dave talked about using at one point creme fraîche instead of buttermilk to culture it, because that's I've been using buttermilk.
+
+[16:11] And I wanted to know is there is there anything that you would recommend? Should I culture at different temperatures? Got any advice? My my I would I would probably suggest culturing it for like less time and or a cooler temperature. If you're getting cheesy notes, that's probably from like lapolysis.
+
+[16:32] So like butyric acid is getting freed from the milk fats. Um and that's what smells cheesy. So like a certain amount of that is like i inherent in any kind of cultured dairy, but I think if you run it colder, you should get less of that. We also used to do it only 18 hours. We would do it like 18 hours on the on the counter.
+
+[16:54] In your written question, um you mentioned you add salt. I think you might want to skip that. Oh, okay. So add salt. I've been adding salt at the beginning because it's easy to dissolve it in the water phase rather than trying to knead salt into my butter afterwards.
+
+[17:09] Yeah, but you but you add it after the culture. Yeah, add it after fermentation, but after the culture churning. Yeah, that definitely is smarter. Although I don't know, but if you add it before you turn it, ruins the buttermilk. Does it get concentrated in the buttermilk and not in the butter?
+
+[17:22] Well, in other words, to have a concentration to have the concentration that you want in the butter. You have to oversalt the buttons. You have to oversalt the butter and milk. Yeah. Right.
+
+[17:31] Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Partitioning, but other directions. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[17:35] Right, right. Different fractioning than I want. Okay. Well, you, you know, so I don't know how much you need it afterwards. I mean, I'll say this one thing though.
+
+[17:42] When you make your own butter, when you're making butter commercially professionally, right? You have to need the heck out of it because the buttermilk is one of the prime vectors for spoilage in the butter. Right? Yeah. Uh and people want a high fat content in their butter when they're paying for it.
+
+[17:58] So typical American butter is like like 82% fat, I think, roughly around, right? And say Plugre with a f with a French accent. Plug gras. Yeah. That's how your boy Eric Repair, he used to recommend he's like, I'm in no way affiliated with them, but like they are like a higher butter fat butter that you can get here.
+
+[18:15] Right. When you're making your own butter to put on bread and not to cook with, don't need it that much. Yeah. Keep the buttermilk in, because what is buttermilk? What is buttermilk?
+
+[18:24] Delicious. Delicious. Sour and uh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[18:28] At uh uh we at Noma, we used to have with the bread service, we'd get this butter from this guy named the butter Viking. Oh my god. In uh Patrick Johansson. Um yeah, and he'd like hardly rinse it at all. So it had like tons and tons of buttermilk left in it.
+
+[18:43] So it didn't last very long, but it was like incredibly delicious. Yeah, like the stuff that we used to make, it wasn't even nearly as good as the next day. Yeah. But like, but that day, first of all, I don't want like the buttervike. Did I ever tell you the story?
+
+[18:55] When I one of the first food service jobs I ever had was a place called the White Horse Tavern. And when I was a kid, I think I heard about this too. Yeah, when I was a kid, I used to go there, and I could never eat there until I worked there because the chef pretended when I was a small, like in a small child, but like you know, junior high, that he made the hamburger patties in his armpit. And so I had the image of him actually down in the basement, like putting a ball of meat in his armpit and going to make the patty. And I didn't want to eat a burger there anymore from that moment forward, because my imagination is too much.
+
+[19:27] So when you say butter Viking, I'm imagining a very sweaty, hairy man putting a butter thing into his armpit and going to like form the the butter things and then making it. So now I don't want butter Viking stuff. He doesn't do it that way. Although we did do an experiment once at the restaurant with him where like uh we would like dip our the back of our hand into like raw cream and then see what cultured. So he had like all the girls do it, all the boys do it.
+
+[19:52] The girl the girls' butter was really much tastier. Uh wait, so an N of what? Oh, just was like a one-off. Ah, okay. All right.
+
+[20:00] A non-repeatable, not a feeling. All right. Well, so uh so math man, should we do your we'll do your cinnamon roll off the air? Or do you want do you have any real? All right.
+
+[20:08] All right. No, I figured well too. So I'm working on a trying to work towards a great cinnamon roll recipe. And I use a blend of Saigon cinnamon and Vietnamese cinnamons. And I was wondering, in order to get like a really good flavor coming out, uh, is there a good should I bloom the cinnamon in the butter?
+
+[20:26] Instead of just sprinkling it on top with the cinnamon sugar mixture and rolling it up. Yeah, so I would say like the longer you can keep the cinnamon in contact with the butter, the more delicious it will be. So yeah, if you like beat the cinnamon into the butter and then let it like sit in the room. Yeah, pretty much all of that. Like all aroma compounds, yeah, or pretty much.
+
+[20:48] Oh, okay. So maybe even just like do it the day before. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay.
+
+[20:53] And then a separate question too, not really flavor-related, but the Teng Dong technique to get higher hydration in the dough, is that like would that be a benefit for cinnamon rolls as well? Do you want higher hydration? If so, then I mean, typically with cinnamon rolls, I put an unconscionable amount of butter into them. And so I don't know. I don't feel like the soft texture comes more from the fat than from the hydration.
+
+[21:16] I mean, like the the the that technique is a great technique. You know, it's it's just increasing the water holding capacity of the dough, right? So that it it hold right, you're increasing the viscosity of the starch by cooking it such that it can hold larger bubbles at a higher hydration during the rising portion of its life. Right. Right.
+
+[21:36] Uh do you know what my favorite one that I used to make? I haven't made, but I was thinking about this when I read this question. I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna make it today. Broa, you ever do broa? I don't think I know what that is.
+
+[21:45] Bria is a Portuguese bread that's made with hey, you like that? Joe, you like broa? You like the broa? Yeah, it's like you take cornmeal and you put hit boiling water in it so that it becomes like a dough, and you mix in rye flour, and you can use either commercial yeast or not, and some some, you know, you can add some AP as well, but then you're using the cooked uh corn the corn flour cooked, and then that provides the structure for the dough to hold together even though it doesn't contain that much wheat. Wheat.
+
+[22:14] Nice. It's great, and it's got this crazy cracked, it's dense, but it's got this crazy cracked crust. But I remember we used to have a Portuguese bakery, and I used to get broa all the time. This was like 20 something, you know, 25 years ago. And uh yeah, it was one of the first breads that I tackled.
+
+[22:30] I like that. But because it's all about you know, holding more. But I don't I've never had a cinnamon roll where I was like, the problem with this is it's not actually it's not true. I mean, I've had a dry cinnamon roll. Dry cinnamon rolls suck.
+
+[22:41] Like the main problem with a cinnamon roll. But do you think it's because they don't add enough butter? Well, that's it. Good question. I mean, it's the same as like like, you know, the it's like you can go anywhere from hamburger roll up to brioche in terms of how much stuff you put into it, right?
+
+[22:55] Aside from the goop. Isn't it fundamentally similar? Or is it more similar? It's like a sweet, sweeter version, right? So is it like I mean like if I get a cinnamon roll that's the same texture as a brioche, that's still too dry for the case.
+
+[23:11] Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there's a lot there's more sugar also that makes it more hygroscopic, and it's got goop all in it, right? So I think the goop, the butter goop is pretty key. Oh, sorry, keep it. Yeah, moistness.
+
+[23:26] Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Look, try it, let us know. Yeah, I'm kind of interested to see what'll happen.
+
+[23:30] Try. Let us know. I'll give it a try. All right. And I look forward to your book from Kitchen Arts and Letters, Ariel.
+
+[23:37] Oh, thank you. Well, I'm glad you purchased it from uh from uh our favorite bookstore. Yeah, exactly. Yes, and there are other great independent. Oh, yeah, but Kitchen Arts and Letters is Kitchen Arts and Letters.
+
+[23:48] Yeah. Love those folks. Right. There are others, but they're the best. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[23:52] Uh or it's like run DMC used to say, we're the best, or at least we're the ones you like. Um now, uh by the way, uh anyone from LA have any interesting food stuff uh going on? What do you guys got? What do you got, uh Jack or Stas? So my girlfriend's been going through some health stuff, and we're testing out a non-gluten diet to see if it makes her feel better.
+
+[24:14] Let's hope it doesn't. I mean, I hope she feels better, but I hope it's not the gluten. Yeah, same, trust me. Um so I'm doing it in solidarity, and so that's my food thing. It has not been fun.
+
+[24:24] But I have found that the best so far, the best gluten free pasta has been from Taste Republic. Taste Republic? Not like Taste Empire, Taste Republic. No, the Republic, yeah. Republic of Taste.
+
+[24:37] Taste oligarchy. Let me ask you a question. Exclusion diets are like here's my issue with exclusion diets is that like A, they suck. B, right? Uh like your mind can play tricks on you because it's not double blind.
+
+[24:52] You know what's going on, right? How about just getting the blood test? Has she had the blood test? Yeah, but sometimes blood tests. Sometimes.
+
+[25:00] Yeah. I mean, sorry, I can speak, I can speak for this directly. That's uh I have a weird reaction to shellfish that does not show up on a blood test or a skin test. But if you feed me an oyster, I will vomit more than you've ever seen anyone vomit in your life. I wonder what the cause of that.
+
+[25:13] So but can they normally test for that? A shellfish allergy? Yeah. Yeah, because I like like with cherries, I wasn't able to I didn't have a blood test because it's a cross, it's a cross reaction to proteins. Allergy.
+
+[25:24] So like that was not testable via blood, but I don't know what the status is on gluten. They don't do like a skin prick. They did. Okay. But they not to cherries.
+
+[25:32] Basically, what they do is they skin, they do a skin prick to all of their standard battery. Like 90. Yeah, my whole arm, my whole arm. And it turns out when you're soup, you know, you and I both like super pale skin, like it turns out everything irritates our skin. You sure that's not cyanide?
+
+[25:47] Yeah. Well, no, I wish it was cyanide. But like you go outside, the sun hits me, and I'm like, you know what I mean? Like, so it's like, you know, my skin is not designed for life. And so, you know, but but has she can you do a blood test for gl- I'm sure you can do a blood test for gluten, no?
+
+[26:03] Or is it not? I I'm sure you can. Um so far the doctor just recommended doing this. So it's just like you can't double blind it. So it makes it hard to you know what I mean.
+
+[26:14] But I guess like you could double blind it if you weren't cooking for yourself. That's like you you, the partner, could b double blind it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you'd what you'd have to do is do a zero gluten diet and then just do the the gel caps.
+
+[26:28] Right. Yeah, yeah. You know, you one you know, a one week your gel caps with and one week your gel caps, you know, with uh, you know, just dope the del gel caps with flour. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[26:37] Like cook flour or something. Satan. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the so the point is is that like I think like that's why those things are so are so difficult in in my experience, is that because you it's hard to know whether you feel better because you're taking an active step to do something, or whether you or unless you don't feel better at all, in which case at least then you know. I mean, that's the only time it's really dispositive.
+
+[27:01] I want her to feel good, but I I kind of don't want her to feel better because of this. Yeah. Well, you want her to feel better, but not for this reason. That's right. Yeah, exactly.
+
+[27:10] So we're uh 12 days in so far. I've survived. Um well, does she feel better? What how long do you have to eliminate this? Like six weeks.
+
+[27:19] Jesus. Wow. Because like, you know, people I know who are like celiac, it's like they know the minute they not the minute, but they know the day that they have gluten that something bad has happened. You know what I'm saying? That's because like the inside of their intestines are getting sloughed off.
+
+[27:37] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I think there's like wheat sensitivities and allergies that aren't like celiac.
+
+[27:44] That are six weeks before you know. I don't know. I don't know about that, but I don't know. I mean how long I last. I mean, I'm just a solidarity one, so I I may have to bail it somewhere.
+
+[27:54] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you like do you do you like go over to Stasi's house and pound a bunch of pasta? You know Anastasia's all stocked up with pasta all the time. You know? Yeah, nothing but fresh, nothing but fresh pasta, right, Stas.
+
+[28:08] Oh no, you know she knows she doesn't play that fresh pasta game. She's uh she's uh she's got she's she's I think somewhere she has like a tractor trailer freezer full of IQF pasta still somewhere. You think that stuff would still be good if anyone had your old IQF stuff, Stas? No. We don't have any more left, unfortunately.
+
+[28:26] That was so good. It was so good. Nastasia's IQF pasta was money in the bank. Not literally, unfortunately, but uh in terms of its flavor. It was very good.
+
+[28:38] Texture, I mean it was excellent. Yeah, yeah. Someday. Someday. Uh what about you, Stas?
+
+[28:44] You do any uh you do any cooking? Are you gonna you gonna uh we did a bunch well I didn't cook, but I had a cocktail waitress all weekend for the for Oscar parties. Legitimately, like for money? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[29:02] Nastasia for she the last time I saw her do this, she pinch hit at existing conditions for us. Did a great job. I know. Yeah. I know.
+
+[29:13] Yeah. I have no doubt. Yeah. Yeah. Uh wait, Ariel, is this true that the picture, your author picture, was taken by uh our favorite oleologist?
+
+[29:21] It was indeed. That is a uh Nicholas Coleman original. Now, to get this look on your face, it was he playing Bansouri or was he not playing Bansuri as he was taking the picture? I mean, that's what my face looks like when I'm smiling and not laughing at something. He cropped me.
+
+[29:38] What so okay? The original photo is a photo of me and Nastasia in uh in in actually the Harvard Square graveyard. Oh, I love that place. Yeah, yeah, and it's uh great for taking photos, but uh who's your who's your favorite person buried there? Oh, advancer in the background.
+
+[29:55] I don't even know. Gamage with a G. Damage, maximum gamge. Love that place. Nice.
+
+[30:01] Do you know that there's a whole crap ton of turkeys in there? I can believe that. There's turkeys all over uh the Boston area. Yeah, yeah. I mean the actual bird.
+
+[30:08] Yeah, no, they're scary. Yeah. They're big. So I'm trying to imagine which side is Nastasi on. Is she the side you're leaning away from or leaning?
+
+[30:15] No, she's on my well, I guess my left. The right, the right of the photo. All right, so you were doing like a shoulders together. I mean, I think I just have funky posture, but don't we all? Uh all right.
+
+[30:26] Um so uh what it's uh so wait, did you take tips or or did they did they cut you into the tip pool? Or were you just completely ad hoc? Me? Yeah. Uh it was a lot of money and a lot of tips, yeah.
+
+[30:41] Oh, they gave you tips. Like whenever I work at things, even if I'm not officially the person there, I feel weird taking the you shouldn't feel no one should feel weird taking the tiss, but like I feel I don't know if you're doing service. Yeah, if you're doing service, you're doing service. But you can't whatever. It's whatever.
+
+[30:54] I mean, if it's I mean, if you're you know, if you have like another job and you don't need it, then did we take tips when we worked at Harvard and Stone Stars? I don't think we got anything. Yeah, I think we put the tips to the Harvard and Stone staff, right? I don't remember. Also, I hate taking money.
+
+[31:13] Like I I I hate the process of like the I don't actually mind it. Like when someone's like, Can I have a check? I'll drop the stuff like that. But like I like working the POS and like making sure it's all yeah. I haven't talked about it.
+
+[31:25] It's a lot easier now with credit cards, but like when you used to have to like how much back do you want? You know what I mean? Yes, I did that in many jobs. Yeah, back when I used to deliver pizzas, nightmare. Oh god, yeah.
+
+[31:37] Nightmare. I told you this. Uh a uh a regular pizza at Domino's was uh 693. And I used to get a lot of seven dollar keep the change. Thanks, bud.
+
+[31:49] Wow. Thanks. Gerks. Anyway. Oh, by the way, is it vanilin or vanilla?
+
+[31:58] Uh I'm not actually sure. And I mean, like, sorry, this is like a thing for me. Because like, okay, so like molecules have names. Yes. You know, like we give them, we give that there's like very systematic names we can give them, but a lot of them have common names.
+
+[32:13] So like vanillin, vanilla has some super long name that describes its exact structure, but also vanillin. Do you happen to know like like one nine three, whatever crazy old crap it is? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um so like in some ways there is a I mean, like chemistry has its own language in that way, but there is like no native speaker of chemistry. So like I've had people criticize the way that I say other molecule names before.
+
+[32:38] You know what they should do? But like they should do, but like, oh what drop dead. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[32:44] Yeah. But so why would they criticize you? Who who the hell are they? Uh I guess other chemists. So like I think I say diacetyl and what isn't that what everyone says?
+
+[32:54] They think uh some other people think it's diacetyl. Can it be either? Uh well, I guess like, well, technically, the uh the middle part of that word comes from like acetate. Right. Or so acetole rather than acetyl would be in theory, you know, the sound derived from that.
+
+[33:14] I don't know. I'm I'm not trying to explain why they have an issue with it, but it's like, but you know what I meant. So clearly, clearly my pronunciation works fine. But the one that pisses everyone off is Cation. Everyone gets pissed off by Cation, right?
+
+[33:24] It's cation. Right? Everyone. Yeah, that's cation. It's cation.
+
+[33:31] But if you don't know chemistry at all and you read it, it looks like Cation. And they're like, it's it's anion, you idiot. So it's also cation. And you're like, what? Who cares?
+
+[33:41] Die. You know what I mean? It's like uh unionized. If you're if you're not thinking chemistry, it looks like unionized. Oh.
+
+[33:49] Yeah. It is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[33:51] I mean, yeah. All right. Yeah. Chemistry weasels. Hey, uh, before I talk about this, let's talk about you have a whole so you drew all the pictures.
+
+[33:59] I did. I love like uh so if listen, if you're even if you're not a chemistry person, you're gonna like your chemistry uh diagrams. You want to do the you want to do the lignin song and dance? Lignan vanilla. Oh yeah.
+
+[34:12] Well, so um the reason uh old books smell nice and sweet, and uh nice sweet barbecue smoke smells nice and sweet, is that there's a structural molecule in wood called lignin that has this like it's not a carbohydrate, it's not like uh l protein or anything like that. It has this like totally crazy uh methoxy anosole structure, is what we would call it. Yeah. Um but when you break little bits of that off with you know heat or chemical reactions, uh, vanillin is one of the uh subunits that you get. And that was one of the first ways they used to make artificial vanilla was from wood pulp.
+
+[34:46] Hydrolyzing uh wood pulp. Yeah, like grind up pine trees and make vanilla. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So cu uh vanilin, sorry. Vanillin, right?
+
+[34:53] Or vanilla. Vanilla has many other so many others. And by the way, John, if they want to know about that, where should they go? Mofad. Yeah.
+
+[35:02] Oh yeah. Yeah. Go to Empire Stores, uh, which is uh right in Dumbo. You go on the water side on the second floor, go to your Mofab flavor exhibition, and uh are we having those fools on or no? Yes.
+
+[35:13] I will text Catherine right now. Yeah. Uh yeah. So we have a whole section about how to, you know, how to sex up uh a vanilla orchid and uh you know the how uh you know vanilin was was uh derived. I forget whether it was first from tar and then from lignin.
+
+[35:29] I forget. I don't know. Now they mostly convert clove oil into vanilin. Because eugenol is all well, eugenol is one of the other molecules you get when you make smoke, but it's structurally easy to make into vanilin. Yeah, did you mention already lignin's interesting in that it is completely neutral in flavor?
+
+[35:47] Oh yeah, it's completely I mean it's like way too big to interact with any receptors. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it's the reason that that okra that you bought and didn't feel beforehand is never gonna get soft. Indeed, yeah.
+
+[36:01] We don't uh there's not really a way to soften lignin. Actually, w after trees, you know, plants, trees evolved the ability to make lignin, there was a period of like probably I don't know, up to a hundred million years where like there was nothing that dec could decompose lignin, so there were just like piles of dead trees everywhere until fungi developed like a lignin dissolving enzyme. Is that the whole petrified forest Megillo? Well, that's like dry rot. No, like oh the petrified for yeah, quite quite possibly.
+
+[36:34] Yeah, yeah. Ah, it's good info. Uh by the way, do you think the average person who didn't grow up eating okra knows about the whole lignin okra situation? Probably not. When you buy okra people, you gotta squeeze that thing.
+
+[36:47] It's if the ribs are hard, it's never gonna get soft. I think a lot of people are very intimidated by okra. It's huge in our family. Yeah, probably. But you know, when you when you go to the supermarket, if you don't touch it before you buy it, and you get and you get the hard one.
+
+[36:59] My Lona used to do it. So I mean I had no idea. I wasn't, I wasn't cooking it at all. We just ate it. My favorite gateway okra is just like deep fried, whole deep fried.
+
+[37:09] Oh my god. Nice. Love it. Not us. We would stew it in tomatoes.
+
+[37:12] Ooh, you like the like the mucus, your mucus man. Yeah, it's called uh bam ya bamia. Bamya? We would call it bam, yeah. What's the what's the word starts with a B?
+
+[37:22] That's the Spanish word for the goop that comes out of Nopalis. Good question. You know what I'm talking about? I I mean I know the goop that you're talking about. I'm not sure I've ever heard the word before though.
+
+[37:33] Yeah. I wonder whether it's the same mucilage kind of based compounds in that similar to the one in okra, I wonder. Yeah, I don't know if it's like a carbohydrate-based mucilage or like uh some other weird molecule. We used to do a cactus paddle. Um we used to do a cactus paddle.
+
+[37:55] What is it? Baba. Baba? Oh, okay. Hmm.
+
+[38:00] At least with the internet, so thank you. Thank you, Internet. Uh, we used to do uh a cactus paddle uh liquor at Booker and Dax, and it turns out if you blend it directly into high proof ethanol, it never forms the mucilage. Huh. And then spin it out.
+
+[38:15] Stuff was good. So the mucilage never forms or the mucilage will separate out. Don't know. Oh, okay. Because if you add a lot of ethanol to something with a lot of pectin in it, the pectin will like precipitate.
+
+[38:26] Yeah. So it's not pectin. Yeah, I used to, yeah, I used to do that, the auto Houstino. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
+
+[38:32] Yeah. I just messed up a batch of orange bitters. I mean, not recently, but yeah. Yeah. Uh so okay, so here's something I did this week.
+
+[38:42] Uh oh, by the way, two weeks ago I was gonna talk about it. The French Culinary Institute, as you all know, went out of business, right? And they uh were bought by ICE, the Institute for Culinary Education, formerly Peter Cump. And so they had a party to kind of, you know, uh, celebrate my and they invited a lot of the FCI folks back. So I went there and Jacques Papin.
+
+[39:04] This is a power move. I uh when I get here, this is a power move. Jacques Papin shows up uh at the thing, and he's giving a talk, and he's like, by the way, don't bother coming up and talking to me. I didn't bring my hearing aid. I can't hear anything any of you were saying.
+
+[39:19] And I was like, boom! Amazing. Boom. That's so strong. Yeah.
+
+[39:23] If there's a way to say keep away without being overly rude, I can't think of a better way than that. No hearing aid, sorry. And then he hasn't talked like that, obviously. And then uh he uh he said this. So I don't know if anyone knows this anymore, but Bobby Flay was the first in the first graduating class of the French Culinary Institute, the very first one in class number one.
+
+[39:44] And uh it was paid it his tuition was paid for by his chef at the time. The tuition wasn't that high because it was you know 80s or whatever. And uh, so Jacques Papin goes, Yes, and all of our great graduates like Bobby Flay and the rest. Uh yeah. Anyway, so uh I thought that was funny.
+
+[40:10] Uh so then, but then uh so she where'd she go? I think she went to CIA, AJ Shawler, who's formerly a cuisine solutions, and I think at Danielle before that, but I can't remember where she first started working with. Anyway, so she's at a company now called Mush. Right? Oh, the like overnight oats?
+
+[40:27] No, no, no, no, no. Although, what happens to why do you need to cook an oat? See, to me, overnight oats is just it's more convenient because you wake up and you have oats. By the way, my rice cooker came back to life. For those of you following the saga of my saga of my rice cooker, like it's died now three times.
+
+[40:43] I don't know how many lives this rice cooker has, but the last time it died, uh, I thought I thought it was dead, dead, dead. I unplugged it, put it in a different spot, knelt to it a couple times a day, got up, and then plugged it back in like a week later, and it came back to life. Amazing. Zoji Rushi. Oh, yeah.
+
+[41:03] Congratulations. Yeah, I know, right? Yeah. I don't want to spend like two, what do they cost now? Like 250 bucks?
+
+[41:08] It's so expensive, a good rice cooker. And why buy a garbage one when I used to have a good one? I just want it to live forever. You know? Yeah.
+
+[41:15] You know, at least as long as I live. I just want it to live as long as me. That's fair. Yeah. But so what were we talking about before the oh much?
+
+[41:21] Oatmeal. Oh, much. Oh yeah, oatmeal. So you could put it in the in the rice cooker and do it, but why do I want it cooked overnight? Uh well, okay, so most greens and cereals, I mean, all of them have starch in them.
+
+[41:33] So when you like cook a wheat berry or flour or oatmeal over, you know, high heat, you're gelatinizing the starch and getting like a soft gooey texture that way. With overnight oats, I don't think you're gelatinizing any starch, but oats have a polysaccharide in them called beta glucan, um, which is both how they are good for high cholesterol and how they can get a little like snotty if you try to make oat milk. So I think you're just hydrating the beta glucan and using that as you don't cook it? Binder. Overnight oats, no.
+
+[42:04] They're not cooked. They're not cooked. Also, it's a diet thing because you can't digest the uncooked starch. I guess so. I mean, it's also like I mean, don't you usually use like rolled oats or quick cooking oats?
+
+[42:14] Yeah, but even then already. They like keep uh they keep a texture. They're pre-gelatin. Yeah. They're just squish-bred.
+
+[42:22] I mean, so it's like texturally different also than oatmeal. Yeah, people can tell themselves that. I mean. Yeah. Uh okay.
+
+[42:30] Alright, so it's not actually oatmeal. Define oatmeal. It's just wet. Oatmeal is when you cook oats and you make oatmeal. This is overnight.
+
+[42:37] The definition of oatmeal where it's cooked, it is not oatmeal. This is just like this is muesli that's sat around for a long time. Right? Yeah. Yeah, it's basically measli.
+
+[42:45] Yeah, it's measli. All right. I can get with musley. Marinated muesley. Meuseination.
+
+[42:50] Yeah. All right. All right. What were you gonna say, Quinn? I was gonna say maybe it's not orange, but it is still oatmeal.
+
+[43:00] Interesting. I don't know. Well, because meal apply it implies just the, you know, starting material. Yeah. You know what you should uh one reason you should uh get the book is so you can see uh Ariel's uh spice mix chart.
+
+[43:13] Yeah. Yeah. She rates the like, you know, the different, like it's like a bar. Is that a stacked bar graph? I believe it's a stacked bar graph.
+
+[43:20] Stacked bar graph of uh of like, you know, different spice mixes and then where they like the percentage of it that are in the what are the you is it four or five groups that you have? Uh three three groups. Earthy, uh dry and earthy spices, uh fragrant spices and sweet spices. By the way, do you if you're gonna cook for a long time and or at high heat, what are your feelings on pre pre-blooming and or like toast frying the the the spices beforehand and the necessity of doing so? Um I'm uh I'm a big fan of it, pre-blooming, in terms of like extracting or mixing mixing the aromatic ingredients with fats so that the uh the flavors permeate the fats before you mix in the water ingredients.
+
+[44:06] So in the fat, so then but then dry toasting you think is relatively less useful. Uh well I mean dry toasting would be more for like adding toasted flavor to it. Right. But so what percentage of spices, because a lot of people do it with everything. What percentage of spices do you think are actually benefiting from toasting?
+
+[44:24] Oh, that's a good question. I would have to, I would have to experiment a bit with that because I'm uh Yeah, when we used to do like uh caraway, we would like toast half of it. Yeah. And then like it because a lot you lose some of the things. Well, because you will be, yeah, you're you're anytime you heat up spices or you know, anything aromatic, you will be evaporating away.
+
+[44:49] Yeah, if you can smell it, it's gone. Yeah, yeah, right. That's how I that's how I know my distillation rigs suck. When I can smell it, I'm like, oh mistake. Every every molecule that reaches your nose is a molecule that doesn't go into the food.
+
+[45:01] That's right. Ding ding. Uh all right, so back to mush. So her company mush is not about overnight oats, right? So sorry, by the way.
+
+[45:09] Yeah, it doesn't matter. So uh you'd actually appreciate the cereal. So uh they're an Israeli company and but they are now here, right? And so they're in upstate New York right now doing work in the US. And they're growing mycelium of a bunch of different uh aschymites, ascomites, ascomites.
+
+[45:28] No, acidiomyces, Pasidomyces. Fruiting body mushrooms, not underground mushrooms. Pasidiomyces, right? Anyway, they're growing a bunch of stuff like that. Yeah.
+
+[45:38] Uh, but they're only growing the mycelium, they're not growing the fruiting bodies. Yeah. So it grows, they're growing them right now in hotel pans and they grow straight up like a dreadlock. Like boom, straight up out of the thing. And then they go sheboygan and they chop like the stuff that comes out of it off.
+
+[45:55] Yeah. And then what they're doing commercially is hacking it up, making it duck cells, and then selling it to people to like fold into meat and whatnot. But they but the substrate they grow it in has a bunch of stuff in it already. So they're saying that they, you know, they have like a and it tastes like the actual mushroom, which is weird because that's what I asked. Yeah, I've grown like shiitake mycelium for that.
+
+[46:17] Yeah, so they've grown a bunch. They grow, they they grow a bunch of different ones, including like they can, I think they can do magic mushrooms and they can do cordyceps, but they said it didn't taste very good, so they're not. I don't think they're pursuing it. I don't think there's a lot of cordyceps that you grow for flavor, anyway. Yeah, but anyway, so uh so I was like, I said to AJ, because she's their you know, the their culinary chef person, I was like, I just want the I just want the mycelium.
+
+[46:40] I don't want it hacked up into duck cells. I would just want to play with it, right? So she brought me two giant, not king oyster mushrooms, just giant oyster mushrooms, the size of a hotel pan and about two inches thick. Cool. And I was wondering are they gonna be tough?
+
+[46:55] They are kind of vertically oriented. I cooked one of them, it shrank down an unbelievable amount. But like it gets like a chicken-y texture when it's cooked, because the fibers are kind of running in one direction, but unlike unlike um, let's say, you know how like when you get the fibers running in one direction in a in a regular mushroom, it's in the stem, and stems, the because of the way that fruiting bodies grow up, the chitin, it gets they get um dehydrated and tougher. So the stems are a lot tougher. So they never have as good a texture as the fruiting body.
+
+[47:26] So imagine if you could have strands that are oriented that way in one direction, but there's still the texture of the soft kind of fruiting body and not of the stem, because they haven't been dehydrated, right? Right by the by the way that you know the water transport that happens in a stem in a in a fruiting body. So I thought it was super interesting. I ruined one because I didn't cut off uh the part that was touching the substrate. Okay and I cooked it whole.
+
+[47:49] I I marinated it with wine and and butter and cooked it whole. And the substrate flavor kind of where the wood chips and stuff kind of permeated the whole mushroom and made it a little bit bitter. There you go. The second one I trimmed off a little more before I did it, and like something the size of a hotel pan shrinks down until it can fit like into like an eight inch or ten inch skillet. And then uh I just cut it into cubes.
+
+[48:11] Delicious. Nice, delicious, very cool. Mush. Yeah. Mush.
+
+[48:14] So to check it to keep an eye out for them. I think we're gonna eventually have uh have her on the show or something to talk about. So that was my culinary adventure of the made some bur was it, burlati beans. I want to see uh pictures if you have some afternoon. I have a picture of the mushroom.
+
+[48:30] Okay. I don't I once I started cooking, like I got busy and I didn't cook anymore. You know, this is why I suck at this kind of stuff. Like like I really just prefer to cook and make things rather than document things. Well, I hate like getting out of the flow.
+
+[48:43] Yeah. You know, so yeah, they need someone to take pictures or I don't know, some kind of static camera setup. Yeah. Oh, my kitchen now is so bad for shooting. Oh, uh, by the way, you have a thing on uh microns, uh chart of microns, which I also enjoy.
+
+[48:57] Your picture of micron. My uh my my powers of ten yeah. Uh a flavor. Yeah, can I tell you something real real quick? So Powers of ten is a fantastic video.
+
+[49:06] It is. That's what I I mean, that's what I like based base the drawing on. Yeah, but it doesn't go to outer space. Well, because it's outer space doesn't matter for this. We're going to be able to do that.
+
+[49:15] Who here has seen Powers of Ten? No. Oh my God, John. Before you before you go on shift today, you gotta watch Powers of Ten. So I believe it was IBM hired the Eameses, uh Charles and Ray Eames, to do a whole series of uh videos.
+
+[49:33] Aren't we videos, they were films. And kind of the most famous one, and the best probably, is uh powers of ten. And uh what w it it it's a overhead picture, I think of a family or maybe it's just a couple. It's like a picnic. Yeah, having a picnic, right?
+
+[49:50] And then it goes like powers of ten of zoom, like yeah up and down. Sick. Sick. So they're one meter away, then they're ten meters away. Yeah, scale of the universe, and then they go in, right?
+
+[50:03] Yeah, it's been a long time since I've watched it. Yeah, they go in. It's just sick. It's just good. Yeah.
+
+[50:07] Well, so this one just goes inward. Yeah, and it's only like like like eight minutes or something. Sure, right? I think so. I we had the we had like a book of it when I was a kid, so I'm actually more familiar with the book.
+
+[50:16] You know, a lot of work has been done on the Eameses, and you know, thankfully I think Ray is getting more play. You know, back in the day, like I think Charles took a lot of the light. I think Ray is getting her due nowadays more on today. Is uh Finally Today is uh Women's Equal Pay Day, I think. Is it?
+
+[50:34] Yeah. Okay. I believe it is. Yeah. And pub date.
+
+[50:38] Um so about Eames. Oh, you know, they also did Mathematica, which is one of my favorite museum exhibits, and that got a revamped recently at the Museum of Science. Oh, okay. Yeah. I haven't been in a minute, but my uh niece and nephew live in Boston now.
+
+[50:52] So great museum. Take them there. Have you been to their lightning show? Oh yeah. The lightning show is ridiculous.
+
+[50:59] I was I was uh very afraid of it as a kid. Oh yeah? That and the uh T Rex sculpture. Oh. I didn't want to go near either of them.
+
+[51:07] But now I like it. Now you can do the electricity show. And I can do the T-Rex, yeah. Here's the thing about the electricity show. I don't know if we've discussed this on air, but their Vandagraph generator was made by someone you might have heard of, Vandagraph.
+
+[51:19] Like you know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah. They're like, this is a Vandagraf Vandagraph generator. You're like, okay, okay. And they have a whole bunch more uh musical Tesla coils now.
+
+[51:31] So they can they can do polyphony, which is amazing. Nice. Since you are a scientist, and you go, maybe you can request Thunderstruck, which is the best of all the tunes they play. Yeah. Oh Thunderstruck with the with the Tesla coils?
+
+[51:46] Oh my god, so good. Uh so on the micron chart is what made me think of it. Uh you know what is. Well, and for for anyone who's not looking at it right now, yeah, yeah. We start with a like zoom in on a banana slice and then zoom in progressively until we get to the size of a banana aroma molecule.
+
+[52:05] Yeah. Cavendish banana, I'm assuming. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Um Gro Michelle, because they have actually more.
+
+[52:11] So isoamyl acetude. So nine, it's nine orders of magnitude. Yes. Yeah. So going from a centimeter to one angstrom.
+
+[52:19] Yeah. Angstrom small. It is very small. Small, tiny. It's like the length of a carbon carbon bond is like 1.4 angstroms, I think.
+
+[52:27] Yeah. Yeah. Angstrom is a good unit. It's a good. Uh but do you use angstrom and not nanometer?
+
+[52:34] Well, it depends on It's definitely not nanometer, by the way. Yeah, if you're if you're talking about like uh molecules of roughly the size of like volatiles or sugars and things like that. So things with like, I don't know, let's say 20 carbons or less than angstrom is much more helpful. But if you're talking about like proteins or gels or stuff like that, generally that's that's going up to like nanometer scale. Uh so uh I was doing nut milks, and by the way, you do a bunch of nut milk stuff, so I'm gonna talk to you about that later too, if I have time, which I it looks like I will not.
+
+[53:11] Um the you know what's a big lie? Uh mesh sizes on uh filter bags. So I was making nut milk and I was trying to see whether are you know I believe what people say about choosing a nut milk bag size, right? And some people are like 250 micron, blah blah blah. So I put them all under a microscope and and wildly inaccurate.
+
+[53:34] Wildly crazy inaccurate. And I'll say this if you're gonna buy one, get nylon and get the square weave, not the ones that look like terry cloth that are in all different directions. Those are random whole sizes, and those they're woven uh in a way and they and they come apart, and so you can extrude a lot through them. Oh, okay. Whereas like when you get the nylon ones, it turns out it doesn't make that much of a difference, like 150, it doesn't make that much of a difference.
+
+[53:58] 80, like it's not as big a deal as you'd think. But like uh you could squeeze the ever-loving snot out of them. Is the rating rated to like the pore size or like the size of particle that it lets through? Believe it's poor size. I I looked at them, but even those aren't accurate.
+
+[54:12] And I saw something that was sold to me as an 80 mesh. No, sorry, 80 micron, and it was in fact 150 microns. That's a big difference. It's not small. So I took all these pictures of this, I was like, what the hell?
+
+[54:24] You know what I mean? Yeah. Uh but the nice thing about these is that unless they fail on the seams, which is where they fail, the nylon ones, you can squeeze them so hard that you can force it through almost like you're using a press. Oh, yeah. No, I've done that.
+
+[54:37] Uh, but I was also testing uh, so you use a 280 nut to 1420 milliliter water uh ratio in the recipe that I wrote down out of your book. And uh I've been experimenting with like much higher nut ratios, and I think in shaking cocktails it makes a difference in terms of the texture of the I would imagine so. Yeah, like much higher nut ratios. And also I've been experimenting, you know how much liquid a nut soaks up when you let it soak up? Like so much, like so much, like 50% of its weight.
+
+[55:08] Yeah, easily. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, like, you know, I was soaking for 12 hours. I was looking at the kinetics of like the nut pickup, nut pickup, and doing it with different things, and my wife was like, just finish the book.
+
+[55:19] And I'm like, I got my fridge is like full with all different nuts soaking. Yeah, just for like one little paragraph where I talk about she's like, she's like, just finish the book. But I should maybe put up some of the pictures of the uh of the meshes. Clearly, you have the same problem that I do, which is like, well, to answer to answer this question, we need to do absolutely every piece of research necessary. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[55:38] Yeah. Uh Ashmer writes in, hey uh Ariel, uh, congratulations on your book. And uh congratulations to me on Barcontra hasn't happened yet. But uh, I'm getting my flavorama copy delivered tomorrow. Hopefully, does the alcohol and vodka sauce for pasta meaningfully carry slash solubilized more flavor, thus making the dish as a whole more flavorful?
+
+[55:56] What happens when you cook out the alcohol? Do the flavor compounds precipitate out? I'm not concerned about the native vodka flavor, just uh the flavor it can or cannot carry in a cooked sauce situation. What is your feeling of this? Because this is something people talk about a lot.
+
+[56:08] Right. It is I have not done a side-by-side of vodka or no vodka. I have read about people doing a side-by-side of vodka and no vodka, and there is a significant difference. People that you trust? Uh I believe so.
+
+[56:14] Okay. I think like Cooks Illustrated or something like that. But um MoFad, the museum wants to know your favorite uh flavor. I know that's a tough question. Gosh.
+
+[56:30] Um impossible to choose, but uh cardamom is a big one. Cardamom delicious. Yeah. Green, I'm assuming. Yeah, I mean, I I I like a decent black cardamom, but the sort of like cleanness of green cardamom is a good thing.
+
+[56:44] You know what I hate very nice. What do you hate doing? I hate getting the husk off of a freaking cardamom pod. It's awful. Hate it.
+
+[56:50] That's why like it's so annoying. Do you are you against paying for people to just get you the cardamom seeds and not have to deal with that pod? Oh no, I absolutely buy decorticated cardamom. Oh, decorticated is my new favorite word. Decorticated.
+
+[57:01] Decorticated. Love it. Uh are there things in uh in common about flavors that can be identified with and without visual textural clues and uh those that need one or both to taste like the thing that they're supposed to? That's a complicated question thrown at the end. Uh yeah, I'm having trouble parsing that question.
+
+[57:18] Like, do flavor differences exist? No, I think it's like uh is that some flavors are hard to actually put your finger on what you're tasting unless you can see them. Oh yeah, but that's just a feature of like being in or out of practice. But do you think so you don't think it's like you don't think it's compound specific? Some compounds are easier to just go ding just by smelling them.
+
+[57:39] I mean, there might be a few. I think maybe it's personal too, right? Right. Yeah, I mean, like most of this has to do with your own experience and memory. So, like anytime you smell a thing, you're more likely to be able to pick it up later.
+
+[57:49] Alright, and on the way out, uh Positive MD wants to know about good dessert to pair with a duck-themed dinner. Most people want something orange-related. Yeah, I was gonna say like a grand marnier souffle. What do you think it's not orange? You have a whole citrus chart.
+
+[58:01] Go Buddha's hand. Go Buddha's hand. Yeah, but Grand Marnier has orange in it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[58:07] Yeah, Buddha's hand upside down cake. Mmm. Could be good. You know, I have a I haven't published it yet, but I have a big uh big old Buddha's hand recipe. Anyway, listen, uh, we can talk forever.
+
+[58:18] Yeah, we'll have you back on the show. Okay. Uh everyone do yourself a favor and go out and buy a flavorama. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan and Rockefeller Center in New York City, News Dance Studios, joined as usual with John behind me. How you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yeah, everything good?
+
+[0:21] Yeah. Not wearing your Kent, you're not no longer repping Kent, Connecticut. You're on to Pizza Planet. Yeah, I guess. It's not really a planet, whatever.
+
+[0:28] Rotated. Whatever. Whatever. Uh got Joe Hazenrock in the panels. What's up?
+
+[0:32] Hey, how are you? Welcome. Yeah, yeah. Uh Los Angeles. We got our Los Angeles crowd.
+
+[0:37] We got uh Jackie Molecules and Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How are you folks doing? How are you? Yeah, yeah. Uh huh.
+
+[0:44] Good, good, good. Upper left corner there in Vancouver Island. Quinn, how you doing? I'm good. And today's special guest in the studio, actual longtime friend, uh known for a long time, both Nastasi and myself, fame chef and uh now expat Andy Ricker.
+
+[1:01] How you doing? I'm doing just as well. And you, Dave? Um great. So uh for those of you that don't know, in like the mid-aughts, mid-awds.
+
+[1:09] It was the when I when I opened here. No, the original Apocalypse. Oh, the original Pac Pac was 2005. Yeah, yeah, okay. So 2005.
+
+[1:16] Uh, people were like, the best Thai restaurant in America is in Portland. And we're like, you're stupid. You're a dummy. What the hell do you know about anything at all? This is like, first of all, like 2005 was probably the height of New York chauvinism in American restaurant scene, because we had kind of thrown off the shackles of needing to look up to our uh, you know, European counterparts, and we were we were our own people.
+
+[1:42] And then but definitely it was New York. And so the idea that like the best Thai restaurant that you could easily go to in the United States was run by a white dude in Portland, Oregon, was absurd, but yet true. Well, it was absurd, actually. It's completely absurd, and I agree with that. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[2:00] But that was 20 years ago almost. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then like, I don't know, like 10 years later, you like opened some pockpox here. 2011, I planted the flag, very end of 2011. All right, yeah.
+
+[2:12] So yeah. And uh, and then uh, you know, right before the pandemic, you were like, I'm out. Or like, or right after. Right as the pandemic descended on us, like basically I was in Thailand, and I was, you know, I was there from Christmas of 2019, and we started seeing, you know, the local news was covering China a lot, and there was like there were drones in the street telling grandmas to go home. Oh, yeah, yeah.
+
+[2:38] You know, in Wuhan or whatever. Yeah. And we had direct flights from Wuhan coming into both Bangkok and Chiang Mai. I think one of the first documented cases of COVID was a Bangkok taxi driver who died of it, and potentially a woman died in a hotel room in Chiang Mai as well around then. And so I went home on like March 12th or something.
+
+[3:00] Home to Chiang Mai. Home to home from Thailand back to Portland. Right. And, you know, arrived in America. And, you know, meanwhile, like a whole nursing home full of people died in Seattle.
+
+[3:12] I landed in Seattle, and nobody was wearing a mask, nobody seemed to give a shit. Crap. Yes. Yes. Oh, sorry.
+
+[3:20] Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Can't wait to hear the beep on that one. Yeah. Um, you know, it I in my opinion, I thought, oh my god, we're doomed.
+
+[3:32] And it didn't take me long. By April of 2000, no, August of 2020, I was in Thailand living there permanently. I had sold all the leases on my restaurants, I had sold the property that I owned. I had sold my clothes. Uh I sold a bunch of my guitars and stuff.
+
+[3:51] I just I was like, this is it. I'm out, and I just shut everything down. But when I spoke to you, you're like, man, this is making me happy. You're like, you're like, dang, I'm so happy. It seems like I should be depressed, but I'm so happy.
+
+[4:02] To be done with it all? Yeah. I mean, the guitars even. When's the last time you ran a restaurant? Uh well I'm about to do I'm about to work on it again, unfortunately.
+
+[4:12] Yeah. Pandemic shut down the last place I had to, you know, it was bar, but you know, the last place that I had to like worry about, you know, was everyone gonna get their paychecks and all that stuff. And yeah. Well, I I had at the time that we shut down, I had a hundred and seventy-five employees, like eight restaurants. And I just didn't I was like knocking on 60 Floyd Cardo's had just died.
+
+[4:35] Yeah, which scared the shit out of me. Uh and was terri a terribly sad thing too, because he was an awesome guy and a great chef. Um, and you know, Tony had died, Tony Bourdain had died, you know, the year before, and I started just kind of thinking about my mortality. Um and the fact that I was tired and just, you know, did the math and decided that uh it's time to to just give it up. N iron nine Thailand flipping.
+
+[5:06] Howardly, maybe? I don't know. Who cares? No, what's it that's in the face of the charge? I backed down.
+
+[5:11] That's the uh that's the thing I think that kind of ticks me off most about like uh any any profession, which is a lot of them, which are underpaid for the amount of work you have to do to do a good job. So, like that's a ton of jobs like that, right? Like architects, chefs, you know, all these jobs. It's like uh the only way that they continue to work at a high level is for everyone in the industry to self-reinforce that that somehow if you can't keep doing this thing that is in some ways not really okay, that you're the problem. You know what I mean?
+
+[5:46] So it's like I don't know, you shouldn't buy into that crap. I don't know. Yeah. Well, you know, for me it was I had I already had my life was mostly in Thailand already. I had my my wife was there, my cats, all six of them were there.
+
+[5:58] Uh it was the only place where I like to be. So you sold the guitars and not the cats. Yes. Yes, the cats wouldn't have fetched much. Were they fancy guitars?
+
+[6:08] Yes. I had a I had I had uh started collecting vintage instruments at some point. Like what kind? You know, the usual fender guild Gibson more of a telly, more of a strat. Like what are you anything?
+
+[6:22] Anything but a strat? Yeah, I bought that's a telly and he's the he he was like uh kind of strat. I'm like, no, everyone has a strat case. Also, strats are a bit to play if you're not like really good, because they've got that volume knob right at the strings, and if you're like really good, that's great. And if you're not, if you're a thug like me, you're constantly like turning the volume off on accident while you're chugging away.
+
+[6:42] Also, unless you're in a hair band, why do you need that wahwah pedal? A Wawa, that uh tremolo freaking bar. Oh, yeah. Yeah, why do you need that? The whammy bar.
+
+[6:48] Yeah, why do you need the whammy bar for? I don't know. I was I was like, I was my job in bands was a rhythm thug. I was primarily a bass player. Oh yeah, and then when I played uh guitar, I was the rhythm guy, so I didn't need any of all that stuff.
+
+[7:02] I was just like, you know. Plus, you know, I don't know if you know this, but your finger can bend the strings. So you don't need to be able to do that. Oh, you don't need that. Yeah, dude.
+
+[7:09] You don't need to like let go playing instruments since I was like 12 and I never thought of it. Yeah, yeah. Your finger can do it. Damn. Yeah.
+
+[7:18] And you sit there like the only way to make the pitch change is just to take this bar and be like you know what I mean? Like I mean, like, I don't know. I guess there is something very 80s about just dropping the whole thing out into like Slack and then like coming back up into it making those noises, but I don't know who needs to be. You can do it with a pedal now. So yeah.
+
+[7:36] Yeah. Do it all electronically. You don't even need you don't even need to get guitar, right? You don't even need musicians. Watch this.
+
+[7:41] Hey Joe, uh write some a write some AI crap for us right now. Like write give me some give me some AI. I would like uh I would like uh something in the vein of like uh Rick James uh and uh George Harrison. Yeah, I mean and it can write it. Yeah, who needs who needs people?
+
+[7:57] I'm kidding. No tangent Tuesdays on cooking issues. Uh we skipped over, we should go back to this is the portion on the show where we uh shoot the breeze over uh uh anything we've done in the past week. Uh you're here for a pop-up, so any interesting cooking problems you've had. First of all, what's this pop-up and why now, why here, why uh so I'm doing uh a moldy little pop-up at mom restaurant um on Laurie's side with uh Joe and his wife Nung.
+
+[8:22] Uh I'm only doing the chicken wings, and the older I get, the less interested I am in doing like like very complicated pop-ups. So this seems pretty suck. It's a pain in the butt. It's rarely beneficial to everybody except for the people who come. Yeah, you can source chicken wings here too.
+
+[8:38] Oh yeah, no, I we went right back to our supplier that we used to be in the neighborhood back when we were here and got exactly it was Debraga. Oh Debraga, yeah. You weren't a bobo. No, they get them from like Pennsylvania from the Amish or something like that. They're good quality.
+
+[8:51] Yeah. You got your Buddhist chicken, your Amish chicken, and then all the other chickens. And then, but you know, when you only use wings, yeah. I don't I I've never tried to get wings from Bobo before. You ever they just sold whole chickens, right?
+
+[8:59] Or they do everything. Yeah, no, they have whole chickens, Buddhist chicken with with the little with a little tag in uh in in the wings. Yeah, we used to do that. We used to do that when we made some of the northern Thai dishes, but you know, for the wings we use this other stuff. Your wings aren't fermented like your ribs used to be, are they?
+
+[9:15] No, they're not fermented, they're uh marinated in fish sauce, sugar, salt, garlic, like overnight. So it's kind of like a brine, but like a really thick brine. What's your what's your go-to uh what's your go-to, not crazy expensive fish sauce these days? Well, um for this we're using uh red boat. Yeah, red boat, good product.
+
+[9:34] And uh I have visited I was a s I have to admit I was a red boat skeptic uh because of the price and and everything. But then I visited their factory in in Fuquak, Vietnam, and I was I'm a convert. I do think they're making some of the finest fish sauce in the world. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[9:48] Um but if I'm not using that, I'll use Mega Chef blue label. Yeah, uh, I like Mega Chef because of the way it's sound. I imagine the original chairman from the original Japanese iron chef saying mega chef. Do you know who the original Mega Chef was? No.
+
+[10:03] David Thompson. Come on, really? When they released the first For those of you who don't know, he wrote he wrote this thick, thick, thick book on Thai cuisine. He's Australian. Umpteen years ago that was for a while in the English language the book, right?
+
+[10:18] It kind of still is in a way. Like yeah, he they uh it's actually made by the squid brand, which is the most ubiquitous of all fish sauce and pretty good quality. And um they wanted to do a premium product, so they approached David to be the and for a while there you could go to the store, buy mega chef brown label tie tie Thai formula, and there'd be a hang tag with David's face on it. Really? And so we used to call them mega chef.
+
+[10:43] I think in my phone I still have them as Mega Chef. Mega Chef. Which he hates, by the way. Mega Chef. Uh, what's the difference between the blue and the and the brown?
+
+[10:52] We only get the blue. You can get the brown as well, but the blue label is their Vietnamese formula. Right. Lighter, sweeter. Um, and I did they launched it here because they wanted to compete directly with Three Crabs brand, which the Korean market uses for making bunchan.
+
+[11:07] So they wanted to compete directly with that. So they undercut uh the three crabs in price. But it's a very good product though. Yeah. It's not available in Thailand.
+
+[11:16] You can only get it overseas. Mega Chef, man. Mega Chef, baby. Uh Paul Adams, other friend of the show, did a uh thing where they measured the uh like the amino content of like a bunch of the different sauces and mega chef had with had a high umami huallop. Oh, how interesting.
+
+[11:33] That was a long time ago though. Things might have changed. Who knows? I yeah, I I think they stuck with the formula. Who knows, man?
+
+[11:38] Who knows? Who knows? I mean, my have you have you tried the new uh Garum from Mitica out of Spain? Nope. It's ridiculous.
+
+[11:46] Nope. But it does taste good though. I tried some very, very expensive, very pure stuff from uh I think it's from Portugal, and they're like making it in the old stone basically. It's like all on that coast. Okay.
+
+[12:01] And it's brought in by Mitica, who's primarily a Spanish brand. Oh, okay, okay. I mean, I'm sure it's the same folks. I mean, how many people could do it but then the problem is the Italian, like so DiPalos, you know, my folks down there, I got they're like, it's like Colatura. I'm like, it's not like Colatura.
+
+[12:15] Not like Colotura at all. So they carried it, but I can't get them to taste it. So they have it on the shelves, but I don't even think they've tasted it. It's really good. I tried it in Lisbon.
+
+[12:22] I had a I had like a I had like a pin drop dropper taste of it costs because it costs like 30 euros for 100 milliliters or something like that. It's just crazy. Yeah, yeah. But you know, it's some it's some dude, you know, naked pulling fish out of the ocean. And yeah, I don't know what the hell could be.
+
+[12:41] That's a nightmare right there. Yeah. It's like Saturn eating his sons, people with fish, like pulling fish out, chewing them and spitting them and their guts into a bucket. Yum. Uh what about you guys over there on that coast?
+
+[12:53] Anything interesting happened this week in the in the world of food? Not this week, but uh andy, I have to say, man, I I cooked through I'd say maybe 60, 70% of your book, the pop pop book, through uh during COVID, it's what kept me sane. And I hunted down all the spices and ingredients. There, I was living in DC and Falls Church had some good markets where I could get most of this stuff, and uh it was great. So that's awesome.
+
+[13:19] Thank you so much. Um I have to say that the that you've you've been beaten by one couple. This it was a Polish couple who moved to they moved to Iceland and then they cooked my entire book, reshot it, like shot pictures of every dish, did a desktop publishing thing and sent it to me. Now, but every herb was substituted with lamb's head? They they made it look really legit.
+
+[13:50] I don't know. Maybe there's like some kind of flight that goes from from Bangkok to Reykjavik or whatever. I don't know. Um, but they did it. And so when people say, Oh, I can't find the ingredients to do, I'm like, you know, Polish couple emigrates to Iceland, recreates the entire book.
+
+[14:05] I bet that couple was rich. Maybe. Or maybe they're just bored. They just didn't because I have to say something like Iceland's incredibly beautiful. It's so expensive.
+
+[14:14] It's so expensive. Yeah. Especially as an outsider. I you know, I that you just triggered that memory. I that happened kind of several years ago.
+
+[14:23] I have to go back and find that thing. Because that was it was kind of it kind of blew me away. I didn't really know what to say or do. I just get their permission and like post the side-bye. Oh.
+
+[14:34] They're like the uh who's who's that who's who uh what which director did the shot by shot psycho? Remember that? It's like Gus Van Sandy. Yeah, Gus Van Sandy, yeah. Yeah, completely redid psycho, Hitchcock Psycho, shot for shot.
+
+[14:48] Like, why? It's like being a cover band and like doing all the same vocal McGillas that the original person did. Why? You know? Maybe it was for the cruise ship customers.
+
+[14:58] This is why I like a cover like uh Stevie Wonders We Can Work It Out. Totally different. Totally different song from the Beatles. Yep, absolutely. You know what I mean?
+
+[15:06] There was a guy in Portland, Oregon, um, named Rick Bain. He had a band called The Genius Position or something like that. And he he recreated pet sounds entirely on like weird instruments on a cassette deck. So he's like the whole pet sounds album like ween style, like on like a four-track. Yeah, on a four-track, using like unconventional instruments, and he completely recreated the whole pet sounds album.
+
+[15:36] It was amazing. Yeah. It sounded okay. Sounded great. Yeah.
+
+[15:41] All right. McBean. All right. Uh what about you, Quinn? You always have something uh interesting going on up there in the upper left.
+
+[15:49] Uh I I didn't have too much this weekend, but I do have stuff I didn't talk about last week. Um, actually two weeks ago. All right. I did a stuffed saddle of rabbit, which turned out pretty good. All right.
+
+[16:05] Did uh did you have the bones removed? I hope. Uh-oh. So how many bones were left over in it? Or did your brother do a good job?
+
+[16:16] Yeah, because what we did is we took off like you know, all the legs. We ground the legs with pork belly to make like a farce. And then my brother did a decent job uh burning out the actual like spine. Oh god, I hate boning those things. That's why I don't cook them.
+
+[16:35] Well, you could just go Fifi Fo Fum and grind it up, you know, with the bones in it. Yeah, that's a totally culturally different thing. Can you imagine? Like, if I serve that to like my normal crew in like little b little bones, like how hardcore would you have to go to emulsify? Like you writer prep the whole thing, turn it into a hot dog situation and just pulp the whole thing.
+
+[16:53] I don't know, man. Uh so uh question. Should we call things farces here in English? Because it sounds bad. Sounds like a farce.
+
+[17:02] Sounds like a farce, right? Like we don't have the French connotations, as we know, say it earlier, throwing off the shackles of that uh of the Franco No offense, John, of the Francophile stuff. I mean, like, why call it a f stuffing? Doesn't sound good, right? Isn't it just a force meat?
+
+[17:16] Isn't that a good thing? Yeah, it's meat meat stuffing, right? Meat force meat, yeah, but you sure, but like what if it's not in something? What do you mean? Like you don't have to stuff first.
+
+[17:29] Then what is it? Then it's then it's a moose, like that's been caneled or something. Yeah, but you don't it's gonna say smooth. No one no one says here's a ball of farce. You just is that would be a farce.
+
+[17:42] I couldn't describe the meatball mixture as a farce. You could, but then why would you do that though? What else do you gonna call it? Meatball mixture. But you don't call a sausage a farce either.
+
+[17:57] Yeah. So it's a bit of a sausage meat. No, I mean a cased sausage is is not called a farce, is it? No, but when you know, because when you buy it loose, you it's still called sausage. Call sausage meat, yeah, loose sausage.
+
+[18:12] But see now we're we're we're getting deep into it. When you say sausage to me, the first thing I think of is a tube steak. Oh tube steak. You know, like something inside. I never ever call things tube steaks.
+
+[18:23] Speaking of tube steaks, the Danish, the Copenhagen like hot dog in a baguette could be so much better than it is. It's so not good compared to what it could be. It's only it's only edible if you're really, really drunk. Yeah, but there's so many things are like that. Like if you're going to be drunk and eat something, the correct answer is donor kebab.
+
+[18:44] A correct answer. Oh there's not one correct answer. But that is one of the things. But if you had a if you had someone handing me a donor, and then other person handing me a poorly made tube-shaped bet faux baguette with a hot dog shoved in it, I go for the donor. I mean too.
+
+[19:03] Have you ever been to Sweden? Yeah. Have you had the half special? No. It's like the Danish thing, except for they put like shrimp salad on it.
+
+[19:11] Oh, shrimp salad, yummy yummy. Shrimp salad. Shrimp salad. Yummy yummy. You're familiar with wiggles?
+
+[19:18] Yummy, yummy, yummy, yummy, shrimp salad. No, we have to pay them if we do anymore. And they have that weird kind of atonal ah salad part. It's fruit salad, is what it is. I don't know how to do that.
+
+[19:29] Have you had your fruit salad today? Uh-huh. You don't know the song? Nope. Joe, you know where I'm coming from.
+
+[19:34] Joe knows. Joe's got the Joe's got that wiggles wiggles action going on. The wiggles, it's like uh every generation has their own kids bull crap. And so like my kids was like late Rafi, but like prime wiggles. They're exceptionally weird.
+
+[19:49] The wigs? I really do. The wiggles are they look like they're on that Star Trek. There's all look like they're on like some kind of unusual speed that we've never had here. Well, they're from like Australia.
+
+[20:00] That's okay. That's okay, I get that. And they are high out of their minds. Yeah. They're very good musicians.
+
+[20:07] No, I'm gonna have to look this up. Yeah, like uh what's your what are your favorite wiggles tunes, Joe? Um, you know what? We uh we we we we left the wiggles. Now we're on to um uh Steve and Maggie.
+
+[20:20] Another I think they're uh that might be Australian. So the magpie and uh uh someone named uh Steve. That's not that's not it's not in my it must be newer it's newer, the songs are great, his smile is bizarre. Do you know who doesn't? You know who takes himself so seriously in a good way is Rafi.
+
+[20:42] Have you ever heard Rafi talk? No, I've no I've actually we haven't watched Rafi yet. Okay, so Rafi, you know, famous, like uh um Canadian of uh Egyptian Egyptian extraction, Egyptian ethnicity Canadian singer. But like you're like, oh, dude makes kids songs, right? But when you listen to him talk, he's basically like Mr.
+
+[21:02] Rogers in that he takes children extremely seriously, in other words, as people and as you know, like something to be kind of like treasured in a good way, like Mr. Rogers. Like, you know, like you know how you you see old footage of Mr. Rogers and people try to like get him to like be like, oh, you're this is goofy, you do kid stuff, right? He's like, no.
+
+[21:23] And that's it, like totally dead. And I was like, well, I didn't expect Rafi to be like that. So where are you accessing all this stuff? Is this like YouTube stuff? What like it's all spotifiable now.
+
+[21:32] You know what I mean? But how would you know to look for it? Every cause like it these kids' music, if you if you're ever like kids. Yeah, if you're ever in that kid stuff, it's like, you know, but you've you've probably heard you've heard Baby Beluga in the deep blue freaking sea. Swim so wild and swim so free.
+
+[21:47] Yeah. Banana phone. But you don't know about Baby Shark yet, do you? Uh oh baby shark. I've had to do baby shark.
+
+[21:54] You know that song I'm a Banana? No. That's the only kid's thing that I've heard. I don't think it's a kid's thing, but it's uh it's pretty hardcore. It's just some dudes screaming, I'm a banana at the top of their lungs.
+
+[22:06] I'm glad that this was the only thing that I was in uh like my friend uh bow and dylan from Bolan restaurant in in uh Bangkok. They've got kids, and these kids find stuff, and then they make me listen to it. And that was that was the the best thing. Is it better or worse than the Buckwheat Boys peanut butter jelly time? I no idea.
+
+[22:25] You've no peanut butter jelly time. No, we can put them up against each other in City Matters. Peanut butter jelly song time is one of the great early like early what? Early like 21st century? Uh did it come out before?
+
+[22:41] It was like 2002 or 2001. I listened to Dr. Demento when I was when I was a kid. Hell yeah, dude. That's my little fishheads, fishheads, roly pulley fish heads, fish heads, fishheads, eat them up yum, all that stuff.
+
+[22:52] Dr. Demento 70s and 80s and stuff. Dr. Demento, yeah. Like he used to collect really like weird, wacky albums, but like stuff that I used to hear.
+
+[22:59] That's stuff from the 30s and the 20s and and like all the way up through. Yeah. And a lot of like like 50s, like 45 novelty tunes like uh like uh Monster MASH and all that kind of but even more obscure and and and sometimes risque. Yeah, you know, with a name like Demento, wasn't he a West Coast dude? I can't remember.
+
+[23:21] I was young. Yeah. Yeah. I was saying this earlier. This has nothing to do with food, but like you know what people don't have anymore?
+
+[23:27] Like um people who are LP people, right? Like vinyl, like when in the 70s, when you had a vinyl record player, you put like five discs on top of each other, and then you had that little L-shaped arm that rested on top. No one would ever do that to their vinyl now because it's scratching the hell out of their vinyl, right? And then as soon as the the it got to the end, it would go boom, it would lift up the needle, move it over, it would go click Dak, and it would drop the next LP on and go. You could listen to like three hours, but only one side.
+
+[23:58] Only the Aces or the whatever the beast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My dad had my my uh my father's Sansui, or is it Sansui? No, uh oh shoot, I can't remember the name of it. Uh, anyways, yeah.
+
+[24:08] He we I broke it as a little kid. Yeah, of course you did playing my little Ernie and Bert. That was what we used to call lo fi. Lo fi. Lo fi record players.
+
+[24:17] Have you when's the last time you guys saw one with the tall center post that it could do that? I don't know. We didn't have a loaf. We my father had a quadriphonic setup, so it was pretty bad. But he still had the turntable that could stack?
+
+[24:28] Yes. Wow. It's really bad for the records. So bad. Oh, dual D-U-A-L.
+
+[24:32] But that was the very Oh, dude. That that was like super high quality. That was like kind of the the one that you wanted to get. Yeah, it was it's a very coveted record. It still is.
+
+[24:41] All right. So for the old for the old folk, I had all I had a lot of tandy stuff from the Radio Shack. Oh, yeah. Remember Radio Shack? Remember Radio Shah.
+
+[24:50] What? I never thought I'd ever hear anyone ever say that. Do you remember Radio Shack? It's it been long enough to forgot to do that. Yeah, it has been.
+
+[24:58] Like that was one of the great early mess ups. And they sent an email to everyone uh saying R E your former job. That's how they fired like all of their people. Really poorly run corporation towards the end. I remember I used to.
+
+[25:12] It was too early to game stop them too. Yeah. I I used to buy so much stuff at Radio Shack, like components, that a guy offered me a job once. I was like, nah. I was like, no.
+
+[25:22] No. So back to the music thing. When I was in bands and we recorded, there was like a really famous mic that you got at Radio Shack. And it was, I can't remember what it's called, but it was it came on a metal plate and it was used as a room mic. It was cheap.
+
+[25:36] It was like 40 bucks or something like that. Um it was a little a really specific model of Radio Shack mic. That was like bulletproof? And every studio had it. It was the P is the realistic PZM.
+
+[25:53] Is that what it was? Really? Sure was. Oh, yeah, because realistic was their other brand. Yeah.
+
+[25:56] That was the in the the in-house company the company. The PZM was the uh oh, what is it stand for? Um it's a flat where it's a mic that picks up basically 180 degrees. Yes, exactly. Yeah.
+
+[26:07] So they put it on the floor in front of the drum, or they put it on the wall to pick up the the the whole the whole room. It was pretty uh it was pretty cool. When I was a kid, my dad is double E engineer, right? And so he re and he's used to build computers, that's what he did computers and lasers. And so in the like right when they came out, everyone was getting these Apple II E's.
+
+[26:28] Remember the green screen Apple II E's? My dad got me the Radio Shack, the TRS 80. And so like I didn't even want to use it because everyone else, all the cool rich kids in my neighborhood. And my dad was like, but these specs are actually better. Nobody cares about specs.
+
+[26:44] I might as well have had the shirt with the dragon on it instead of the polo. For those of you that remember that shirt from Sears. My grandma got me that shirt from Sears. You know what it's like to go? Like, you know, I don't know.
+
+[26:55] Like all the kids in my neighborhood when we moved, all had all that polo crap. And I had my my grandma's little dragon shirt from Sears. Makes me feel like an idiot. You know what I mean? I don't know.
+
+[27:06] Anyone else have these kind of experiences growing up? I'm sure people do. Everyone does. Uh oh, I'm being told by John back to food. Uh all right.
+
+[27:15] So uh do you guys uh what about you, Stas? Do you do any food? Uh I was in Sedona with my sister, and there's no good food. That is not true at all. There's gotta be at least a Tuckeria or two.
+
+[27:27] Or 12. I was just in Phoenix. I went to a Mexican place and there was no spice in the food because there's so many white people in Sedona. Oh my god. Well, Sedona specifically is full of freak shows and weirdos.
+
+[27:40] No offense to them. But like it's like super pretty, but it's like I cannot get out of that place fast enough. My my father-in-law used to fly in there out of Phoenix. He would fly into the Sedona airport. And man, uh, if I never see another person like, you know, cross legged with a crystal in there in you know, in front of them, like in that kind of situation again, like it's too soon.
+
+[28:00] So maybe it's just Sedona, but I had a lot of good food in Phoenix when I was there, which is pretty close. Yeah, I'm sure Phoenix is great. We did not spend any time there. Why Sedona? Were you doing some sort of crystal healing thing?
+
+[28:12] Were you like uh shoving uh crystals in your unmentionables or something? Yeah, actually, we put them like that. No, not particularly, no. No. Uh what were you doing there?
+
+[28:25] Why why Sedona? Just hiking and going through. What time of year is it? I just never the Grand Canyon either. Oh, you went up to Flagstaff?
+
+[28:35] Yeah, when we went to the Grand Canyon. Yeah. Yeah. Cold now. Did you go all the way down?
+
+[28:40] Very cold. No. I went there once during this time of year, and I slipped and fell. And I'm told that I was like a hundred feet away from the edge, but I'm so afraid of heights that I screamed in such a high timbre that someone thought that a small child had been punched across the parking lot, and we were like, hell with it. And we never went.
+
+[29:00] I just got as close as I could see over the edge, and we never walked down. I'm never walking down that Grand Canyon, not ever. No way. You can Mr. T me, you could knock me out and then put me on the back of one of those mules and take me down and have me wake up when I get to the bottom, but I'm never gonna walk down the side of that thing.
+
+[29:18] Did your feet hurt? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm told that.
+
+[29:24] That was good way to way to get it back on food. Yeah, I was just thinking the same thing. I'll give you some food. I'll give you some food. So uh I was uh uh you know, I do family dinner every every week, and so like I did got a bunch of cheese from Dupalo's, and my one of my favorite cheesemakers is uh Beppi Ocello, who is uh he's uh you know Piemonte guy, and he makes this cheese teston, which means hard head, it's a variety of cheeses.
+
+[29:47] My favorite of his two favorites he makes is he makes it's a mixture of sheep and cow's milk cheese, aged for you know, like 18, 24 months, something like that, wrapped in chestnut leaves. Stupendous cheese. He also does one like that with uh with uh wheat that you know uh some wheat and whiskey on the outside. Also fantastic. But he made one that he called pizza cheese, which is the same testum, but with like weird, like American style, looks like a deep dish kind of pizza.
+
+[30:17] And so I served it to Wiley Dufrain, my brother-in-law, who you know makes pizzas, and he was like, it tastes like this person. This is his conception of what an American eating, because he doesn't sell this in Italy. This one is like his is his perception of what an American thinks pizza is. Weird. That's my only food store.
+
+[30:35] Bizarre. Yeah. And I've been trying to make that Portuguese uh bread broa that I talked about with uh Ariel, and I can't get it the way that I used to make it because I'm not using any, I just need to move to maybe using refined flour. I'm using all completely fresh um, you know, homegrown stuff, and I just I just can't get it to be because I used to do it all the time. Oh you might need to use a mixture.
+
+[30:57] I don't know if I'm gonna use a mixture. I might just go all the way to you know, good old-fashioned American roller milled products. You know what I mean? I mean, they have their place, just not in my house. What am I well either go one way or the other, my man?
+
+[31:11] You know how I feel. You feel your way, I feel my way. That's it. You know? Uh all right.
+
+[31:17] Um, so uh see. Uh oh, I was reading the intro to PacPak, or not the intro, David Thompson's intro. So, like you got into this whole cooking thing because of a mushroom. What's this mushroom? What's this fancy mushroom?
+
+[31:28] Um, the I was well, first of all, I got into Thai food seriously because of mushroom. I'd been cooking since I was 15 by the time I got to this. I was uh wage earner. My first job uh was a dishwasher at a fondue restaurant. Oh my god.
+
+[31:44] You know who loves fondue? Who's that? Nastasia. Don't ever be a dishwasher at a fondue. Oh, Jesus, that sounds like a nightmare.
+
+[31:52] Baked on cheese. Um, but the the story with mushroom was that I went to Thailand in 1992. It was the first time I'd been to Qiungmai. I'd been in Thailand before in the mid-80s. And uh I was there to visit a good friend of mine, his wife Lakana, who is a professor at the university there, was like, Well, do you like Thai food?
+
+[32:10] And I was like, Yeah. She said, Well, she took me to a few places that served like kind of regular, you know, stuff that I might be uh familiar with. And then she she was like, Well, do you want to try the local food? And it happened to be this was May, and during April and May, right around this time of year, uh, there's a mushroom that comes up after they burn the forest and it rains. So, uh, and they're called uh head top, and they look like a puff ball in kind of that same size but darker color, almost black.
+
+[32:37] Um, and they have this incredible aroma, almost like it's not like truffle, but it it the intensity of smell is almost the same. Uh and um when you cut it open, hopefully it's nice and white and puffball inside, but sometimes it's not kind of uh, but but they have this sort of like earthy uh taste and that smell. And we went somewhere and a guy was making a dish called Ganghead Top that had like pork ribs and lob spice and uh bitter herbs and tamarind and these mushrooms in it. And it the flavor was unlike anything I'd had before, Thai or otherwise. And it was kind of a uh an aha moment for me because it was like, well, oh, so this is only this time of year, so it's seasonal.
+
+[33:24] Uh this is a northern Thai style dish. So there's regional cuisine. Uh this guy makes a specific version, so it's local. Uh so Thailand has local, regional, seasonal cuisine, uh, also based on what ethnic group you come from. And that was a revelation to me because before that, you know, uh you go to a Thai restaurant anywhere in the world and it was the same 50 to 100 different dishes.
+
+[33:50] Because kind of institutionalized international Thai like Yeah, and and it was those are good dishes though. They're good. But it wasn't like there's no indication that there was anything else but that if you go to Thailand. And you arrive in Thailand and you go to all the tourist places, and they're catering tourists. They're basically reinforcing this idea.
+
+[34:09] Um, so that was the beginning of like, holy crap, I've gotta notice I said crap. Um, I've got to start looking at this more in depth, and that was it. I just kind of went started going back again and again and again and trying to learn more. Uh speaking of uh learning more and like weird things that nobody ever gets to eat, or not weird, but things that nobody ever gets to eat. You told me years ago that David Thompson was in possession, or maybe it was uh maybe it was Weep who told me.
+
+[34:34] You ever meet Wee Pop, Soup Supapipot, uh the person who did Nomiku, who's one he's he now owns nightclubs in Bangkok? Uh no, I don't think I do. Well, tell me whether this was you that told me this or Weepop, but um that uh because he also knows uh Thompson is in possession of old court cookbooks and like no one's ever translated them and they're nowhere available, like old Thai court cookbooks. Yeah, so that type of um knowledge, uh David's not the only one who has them, like everybody has them now. Uh, but he was the first one, I believe, who really started digging into that and applying them and and putting them into into modern use.
+
+[35:15] But now he and his acolytes and you know various other people who have who have entered the fray or have been in the fray also have access to them. But it's true. It's in the in the this was like this is like you know 15 years ago or something like that. Oh longer longer talking about 30 years ago he'd he had um or more. Yeah he and and basically a lot of what David's cooking has to do with is reinterpreting these things because the recipes aren't exact.
+
+[35:41] Right. They're they're very vague. I've never had his food by the way. Well you're gonna have to come to Thailand then. Yeah.
+
+[35:47] Yeah. Um but what's that what's that what's the in other words what's the spin on that because from what I gathered from what people have told me it's an entirely completely different style of cooking cork cooking. Yeah so imagine a time when there were the the haves and the serious have nots. So like almost a feudal kind of structure. Like today yes yes but except for there's a large middle class there now.
+
+[36:10] Right. Um oh we got Hello Kitty and Supermalls at the moment. Um so the only place that really could afford to to experiment with food were the royal courts because they had money and they gathered ties people would bring them stuff they could import things um so and the and food was a very important thing and and um so a lot of the people who worked in the in the kitchens in the in the royal courts would uh kind of apply not only ancient ideas but modern ideas as well to to the to the recipes um but like I can't read those things and you know, um, but m my understanding is that you know, the the the uh measurements would be like one rice bowl of pork ribs, one bot of palm sugar, you know, like kind of like old. Bot the unit of money? Bot, yeah, which is based on a weight and uh and one spoon, like what kind of spoon?
+
+[37:07] Nobody knows. So basically the the ingredients are there and the technique is there, and um, you know, uh David would would work with these things until he got something that tasted good, and then he'd refine it and change it and refine it and change it. And that's you know, that's a lot of his cooking is based on that. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[37:25] Uh do you still uh so right now you're running food tours, right? Can anyone get one of these things or no? Uh yeah, anybody who has money. Well, that's the idea. But like how like how like but like, you know, you've been going there since eighty seven, regularly living there.
+
+[37:39] You used to live there even like a couple of months a year no matter what. I'd be there three to five months a year for, you know, uh well, yeah, for for a long time now. Right. So it's like I mean, how much how much different of experience do you get like being plugged into someone who's an outsider but an insider, right? Because you, you know, we were talking before the show, you still very much realize that you are an American when you're there.
+
+[38:04] Yeah. You, even though you're living there, right? Yeah. Even though and your wife is Thai, right? But you're still feel like an app.
+
+[38:11] Right. So about how like what kind of different experience because you I guess you just have the knowledge if you you know that's I think it's the same thing that allowed me to do what I did at Pac Pac, which is that I, you know, I have a nominal understanding of the Thai food culture, and I've got a very good understanding of American food culture, and I'm able to interpret both ways. So um I I'm able to answer questions that Westerners are likely to ask. I guess is the best way to put it. Yeah.
+
+[38:43] I mean like I'm just thinking about that when I'm dealing uh with uh you know in business environments with other cultures like yeah there's a that's a very specific skill. And and I I'm you know I'm still absolutely a student of of Thai culture and cuisine. There's so much more to learn. But the stuff and I and you know there are people that that I go see again and again and again and I um uh you know I'm able to to show people like here's here's this thing and it's this is what it means and this is what it represents and here's the people who are doing it they've been doing it for X amount of time. Uh here's the little tiny technical like if we go to visit a Konome Jin factory for instance a place where they make the rice noodles uh of a particular type I understand the process that they're going through if you walked in you would be able to figure it out because you're you know that's what you do you figure it out like that stuff stuff yeah and but to the to the casual observer they'd be just like what is going on here I can't I like just don't understand it.
+
+[39:39] And I'm able to say well look you know they're gonna boil the fermented rice flour dough in the water till it's half cooked because that's a in food technology what is that when you boil half like half cook a dough like you mix a cooked dough with a raw dough. You mean like you would for like a shoe pastry or broa which I'm thinking about or like wrappers or things like that. Plus just increasing the hydration of the it's increasing the hydration of its ability to hold uh water by pre gelatinizing some of the starch. Right. Yeah exactly I'd I wouldn't have been able to place but that's what they do and I don't think that they could could uh um necessarily uh the people who are making it could necessarily express it that way.
+
+[40:20] But they know that they have to do it. So I'm able to explain what's going on. Whereas if you just came, uh you might get uh with a a local tour guide who isn't like focused on food, uh, might not have uh the the right way of explaining to a Western tourist more precisely what's going on. I'm gonna use that by the way. Yeah, yeah, there you go.
+
+[40:42] Yeah, but why you know why would uh why would someone why would somebody know what a food nerd wants to know unless they're m themselves a food nerd? This is true. You know what I'm saying? This is true. Do you have any food tours that revolve around going to that rocket festival that you used to show me videos of?
+
+[40:56] No. But by the way, for these who don't know, you gotta what's the name of the thing? People gotta look up this festival. It's called um bang fifa, which is and it's held in various different places in Isan. But essentially it's it's a a way of uh inviting rain to come for the rice harvest.
+
+[41:15] And they shoot rockets like into the sky. People homemade, big, dangerous, big. And like people are like walking up and lighting with a match or with a torch a rocket that is like four times taller than they are. Yeah. Like I'm not talking these are like big.
+
+[41:35] And they used to make them out of bamboo, but now they make them no, they make them out of PVC pipes. Oh, PVC pipes are more or less dangerous. Same dangerous. I would say I don't know the answer to that. Um, I would say maybe a little bit less.
+
+[41:49] I mean, the the videos the videos are just like, oh my God. Yeah. There's no good food built around that though. Um, no, they just party down, man. It's just a big party and they it's all about running away.
+
+[42:00] It's about uh well, it's about drinking copious. I mean, they're all this is the other thing. The guys that are doing this are wasted on rice whiskey. That makes it safer. That makes it well, it just makes you, you know, plausible deniability that anything wrong is gonna happen.
+
+[42:15] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um but I mean no, they they have like drinking food typically would be. Well, you had a whole you had a whole book. I had a whole book about drinking food. That's true.
+
+[42:23] It is true. And you also used to import these crazy like uh ma you would find people whose like business was to take one machine and turn it into a food machine. Like you had a you used to have these washing machines that this guy used to customize for you that would sit there and they would oscillate chunk chunk chunk chunk chunk chunk and be a wound machine. Yeah, you was like beer and crushed ice and salt and it would chunk chunk chunk chunk chunk and then you would open your beer and go clunk and it would just ice up immediately. It would ice up once you agitated it.
+
+[42:55] Now, this is gonna be another food science thing. It looks it should stay liquid. Yeah. Right. You had to get it just right though, right?
+
+[43:01] But you you had to get it just right. And it it the key was it would hold sort of indefinitely in there at this certain at the temperature, which is like right at or above freezing. So salt water and ice together makes it colder, but because of all of the carbon dioxide in it and that because it's under pressure and there's no nucleation sites in it, you don't get any crystallization. So you can you you can either keep it at like at its freezing point when it's in a bottle or slightly subcooled. And then when you pop it, the CO2 blasts out, which A lowers the freezing point, sorry, raises the freezing point, and and B provides nucleation sites with those bubbles.
+
+[43:40] And so you you you know, you hit it and blam oh. It just Yeah. So what what we would do, there are two two things that I would do when you serve it. Uh one would be to before you open it, you tap the bottle on the floor, just on the corner, boom, and then you turn it upside down. And when you turn it right side up again, it would wound, we'd say turned to plastic, basically.
+
+[44:02] Um so it would it would turn to slush and then you po you drink it out of a straw. The other thing you could do was take pop the lid off, don't hit it, uh it'd still be liquid, and you'd pour it into a glass with a single ice cube in it, and as it hit the ice cube, it would turn to slush. So it's coming out totally liquid beer. As soon as it hit the ice cube, it turns to slush in the cup. So it's kind of like a magic trick.
+
+[44:25] Yeah, yeah. I like a magic trick. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and then they they were doing that in uh what was that famous Tokyo restaurant that was doing a lot of super cooling and then the Spanish did a lot of super cooling like uh trade it was a thing for a while.
+
+[44:37] But then, you know, if you were doing it with uh, you know, they were doing it in Thailand with washing machines since forever, right? I thought well they do it they had the hand ones, but typ at first they were used to make like popsicles. On a windshield wiper motor, that's what it was. It was a windshield wiper motor. On a barrel.
+
+[44:50] Yeah. But they had the manual ones before, the stainless steel things. It was the same idea. You'd have a little jacket and you'd stick a like um syrup and fruit flavor and put a stick in it, and then you go like this, agitate it by hand, and those would freeze into a popsicle. And those didn't stay liquid, right?
+
+[45:06] Because there's no alcohol in them. Am I correct? Uh also on the beer that stops it from uh w uh well, I mean alcohol will lower the freezing point, but it's this shifting of the freezing point with opening it under pressure and uh the fact that the gas leaves is I think the main and it those little micronucleation sites. You can do it with with water, with straight water without uh any sort of pressure shift like that, you need to keep it very still and very clean so that there's no sights. Uh, and then you hit it or throw uh throw something in and it just crystallizes out or pour it on an ice cube, as you say.
+
+[45:38] It's a trick that like um a lot of people, a lot of people have uh, you know, done in the high-end kind of gimmick world. But I think it's cooler to just have it not just be like something that like get me a beer and it ices up. Oh, yeah. No, you go to a lob joint where you're eating raw meat with blood and oval and stuff in it, and they'll have super cool beer and they just come to the table and be wound. It's nothing better.
+
+[45:59] Yeah, ice cold, ice cold beer. I don't know if you know. Ice cold beer. There's another um Thai food technology, mic, what do you what do you call it? Uh molecular gastronomy move.
+
+[46:09] Yeah. Um which is they use uh something called Nembun Sai, which is limestone paste. Oh, I love that stuff. The sigillated water with with with the limestone paste, and you add it to batters and it makes stuff super crispy. We used to use that crap all the time on bananas.
+
+[46:23] Yeah, it makes you can cook them and they'll stay firm. Hard as hell. But do what's the difference between the red and the white lime paste? Nothing um like from a chemical standpoint. The red stuff is what you're supposed to use for food.
+
+[46:33] The white stuff is used for ceremonial purposes. Now we used to I used to use that all the time. The first I bought it, um, there's a there's a Thai grocery on uh actually it's the one part of the f old five points. In if you know New York, like uh kind of downtown history, five points was I kind of like fall i mainly because of prejudices was called like the worst neighborhood in in uh in Manhattan. But it was leveled and they built all the courthouses down there.
+
+[47:01] But it was where five streets kind of and if you watch gangs in New York, you can kind of see a recreation of that. But there's that street, Moscow, where the Thai grocery is, is one of the only places where where you can physically, if you squint just right, you can see where the five points used to be and what it kind of looks like. So that's on Moscow. Down by Mulberry, would that have been kind of? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[47:21] So Moscow is one of the original streets that ran right into the five points, and you can kind of see the angles that kind of made it. And if you don't see the big center street buildings, you can kind of feel it for a second. If you can if you feel yourself just right. So I walked in there and they wouldn't take credit card for the amount of stuff that I had to buy. And so I was like, what are these jars?
+
+[47:42] What are those? And he goes, Lime paste. I'm like, lime paste. I thought he meant like the fruit lime. I'm like, uh all right.
+
+[47:50] He's like, red or white. I'm like, I don't care. And he gave me one. And then I had to figure out what to do with it. And that's when we started uh doing these, like uh, we would vacuum, we would hit, we would make the lime water.
+
+[48:02] So it's it's it's like um it's calcium, it's calcium hydroxide, similar to what they use for nixtilization in in uh in uh Mesoamerican cuisine. And uh, you know, you have to make this water and then we would vacuum infuse it into bananas, and holy crap, you could just beat the ever loving snot out of those bananas, even if they're dead ripe and they won't break. So that that is one of the classic uses of Nembunsa is to cook bananas. So you you soak them in in in um acidulated lime water nambutsai, and you boil them and they don't get soft, and then you eat that with um with coconut cream, like warm cooking we call it uh glue buchi. Yeah.
+
+[48:42] You can do it with pumpkin as well. Good. Very good, yeah. Very good. If you overdo it, it's weird.
+
+[48:47] Yeah. If you soak it too long or if it gets it gets weird, it gets like weird. Yeah. But the number one use for it is if you want to make the crispiest fried chicken batter ever, use that water instead of water. For and uh what's and what's regular wheat starch base?
+
+[49:04] Yeah, yeah. Whatever, whatever starch you're using, just add that water instead, and you get like the crispiest. As a hundred percent of the of the of the what's it called? Yep. Yeah.
+
+[49:14] So it should also brown like a mother. Unless you add a lot of acid back to it. It browns pretty damn good, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[49:22] Uh if you if you add a little bit of MSG to that, actually, your your batter will turn pink and you get a really nice color. Well, I like that. The uh is it I have not found another thing that I bought there once I couldn't find a good use for are those candles. The scented candles. Is there a is there a use that I would like the flavor of for those candles?
+
+[49:43] Well, if you don't like the flavor, then you don't like the flavor. I actually love the flavor. It's used extensively in Tide uh sweets, cannome. Um so you can smoke, uh you can smoke sugar with it. Uh you can smoke um flour with it.
+
+[49:57] Is it always waxy or is I doing it wrong? It has like a not just the aroma of the candle, but like a real well, here's the problem. The stuff that you're getting here is not high quality. If you want the good stuff, you gotta go to Bangkok and buy like these, you know, this this very expensive versions that people are still making by hand. The stuff you get that's that comes from the supermarkets here is is low-grade crap.
+
+[50:19] So you need the good stuff. Uh but if you get that, and then you you know, you burn it from both ends, you-shaped, right? Yeah. You set it in a cup, you burn both ends, you put the stuff in the same, you know, like like a cold smoke kind of situation. And uh you can smoke uh liquid with it, you add it, it'll absorb into liquid, it absorb into um sugar, flour, and then you make stuff with that, and then you get that really beautiful flavor.
+
+[50:43] I I I love it. Some people, it's polarizing, kind of like durian. Yeah, or like water bug essence. Yeah. That stuff, generally speaking, I don't dig that much.
+
+[50:53] You know what tastes just like that? It's the weirdest thing. Uh absolute pear. Yeah. Well, no, but it's because of those esters.
+
+[51:00] It's very estery. So, like uh, for those of you that don't know what we're talking about, we're talking about the giant water bug. Mengda, we call mengda. Yeah. Which, you know, everyone was trying to source, and I was trying to get you to find me a source because McGee wanted some.
+
+[51:10] Someone else wanted them here in the world. Exactly where to get it. In New York? Yeah. You go to um you go to the market uh across from C Papai.
+
+[51:19] And here's the thing. They're not I do not believe that they're legal to import as as a food product. So they get imported as fish bait. Ah, but they're frozen. They're frozen.
+
+[51:31] But you can get the same thing out of it. Are they just as good frozen? Um, to be honest, I don't I don't ever cook with them. Yeah. But it'll work.
+
+[51:39] How close do they smell to the the fake essence that you can get at all the stuff? Oh, the fake essence is horrible. That's the stuff that smells like nail polish and bananas and like the pear. It's awful. Liqueur, yeah.
+
+[51:50] Is it similar to that? Similar, yeah. Um, but the the most the the way that I had it first was this thing called nemprik mengda, which is uh nempricnum, the green chili paste from the north. Um, but they add some of the menda, some of the the gland they squeeze it sounds like it's like little bug. Yeah.
+
+[52:07] It's big bug. Big bug. And um they mixed it into that, and then I had it with like a steamed fish or something. And I and I found it to be interesting and not unpleasant, but it's not something I seek out. Yeah, so you don't have like uh a little thing of cheesecloth with a bug in it, and like like any oh yeah.
+
+[52:22] Little lemon bug. Little lemon little bug. No. But people dig it, and uh, you know, it's think well, think about think about the food of Thailand in this context. You're eating vast quantities of rice, right?
+
+[52:37] Like your your staple, and you're gonna eat, you know, every man, woman, and child's eating like a kilo or two of rice a day in the old days. So the cuisine got developed based on this idea that you have lots and lots of something that doesn't have a whole lot of flavor, and you need things that have flavor to kind of make it more interesting. So that can explain a lot of the kind of um also you're talking about people who were living babes basically at the poverty line. So anything that is edible that's interesting ends up on the plate. Yeah, what's your favorite thing to do with the black sticky that's not dessert?
+
+[53:06] Um that one you can well mostly what you use it is for dessert. But you can um I really like that stuff. It's really great. You can pound it into like a mochi-like thing. Um, but mostly it's used for for sweet stuff.
+
+[53:21] I mean, yeah, we used to use that for puffed rice. Oh, interesting, yeah. Because uh because it's tastes really good. Yeah, and it looks really good. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[53:31] Yeah. You know what I mean? But like Well, you know what, you know what the other thing you do with it is you make Laokao. Uh rice whiskey. Oh, yeah.
+
+[53:39] And when you make that, it turns purple, red. Yeah, tastes like a lot of yeah, the Chinese people use that a lot actually for making Lao Kao, the black rice. All right, see. Uh oh, uh by the way, are you still selling bing chaton or no? What's what's the Thai word for binge tan?
+
+[53:53] Uh tan. Uh all right. Just minus the bing show. Yeah, tan just means charcoal and Thai. Um, so and uh you know, it's not clear to me where what the the uh what is what's how do you describe etymology?
+
+[54:05] The the the the sort of like history of the word. I don't know. It probably comes from somewhere else. But tan is uh we don't actually, have in Thailand, we don't make quote pinchetan, unquote, because that's like a really specific property. But there is somebody in Thailand who started doing it, and that's who we were sourcing from.
+
+[54:24] But I'm not involved in that in that company at all anymore. No. No. No. All right.
+
+[54:30] But you are still making cordials, vinegar, vinegar based cordials. We've just closed that cunt that company down. You're shutting it all down, man. Yeah, I'm done, man. That's it.
+
+[54:38] I'm done. Done. Hanging out. All right. So let me see.
+
+[54:40] Get to uh get to some questions here. Oh, we have a question from Suzanne Park wants to know what is uh the food item you most miss from the United States. I mean, you get to come back sometimes, but um pho. It's the very first thing I have. That's so nuts.
+
+[55:04] Yeah. I mean, look, we we have really easier just to go to Vietnam? Uh actually it's pretty easy to go to Vietnam these days, but not just for a bowl of pho. So it's it's like and we have we have plenty of other things in Thailand that are really, really good. You're like, you know, oh, I'm gonna get a burger.
+
+[55:19] Nope. Nope. Uh well, I mean, we can you can get almost everything in Thailand, but you can get really good pizza there, but for some reason the the quality of pho, they're just part partly because Thailand is not really a beef culture, and Vietnam is. I see. Uh all right.
+
+[55:36] So this is uh a question about you like cocktails, so but you know, I'm opening a new place. I heard uh hung out with Jeremiah the other day. Yeah, yeah. Jeremiah and fabulous. All right.
+
+[55:45] Uh Mark in Long Island uh saw a bottled jungle bird recipe online that calls for pineapple syrup and lime juice concentrate as well as lime peels. Uh it's from you know, it's some recipe. Listen, Mark, don't don't try he wants to know how to get the lime concentrate. Don't. Just don't do, don't use that recipe.
+
+[56:02] Just don't use that. I don't know anything about that, but you're the man, you're the man to answer that question. Yeah, so we used to do a uh, yeah, no, but I just these are just questions I have to get through. So uh and I, you know, you like talking cocktails if you're gonna. Sure, sure.
+
+[56:12] So uh what I would do is I would use uh Booker and Dax's old uh stirred bird uh recipe, which is a stir. So if you're bottling a cocktail, you're you were taking a cocktail that otherwise wouldn't be uh good bottled and making it into a stirred thing. So this third bird was uh was black strap, one ounce uh or one part, it's called part because you're gonna make lots of them because you're bottled, right? One part uh like a crucian black strap, uh three-quarters ounce clarified lime juice. Now, so what I would do if you're gonna cordial like cordialize is I would heat that three parts of clarified lime juice, heat it, and then it'll be stable with peel in it to make like a pseudo-cordial, but don't bother boiling it with the sugar because you're gonna bottle it all together.
+
+[56:53] Uh half part clarified pineapple juice, half part uh pineapple syrup, which is just pineapple juice taken up to 50 bricks, uh half uh part Kampari, quarter part overproof Jamaican like Smith and Cross, and quarterproof uh light rum like a Florida Cagna and some salt. Stir it to see how much water it needs to add to the water and bottle it, and that should be pretty stable. And that's sounds like a good recipe, not using like lime concentrated, which sounds like a nightmare. And two-thirds. Uh yeah.
+
+[57:26] Yeah, it sounds great. Yeah. Uh all right. So uh so I can answer more of these questions. Do you like these kinds of questions?
+
+[57:33] Yeah, yeah, I love them. Yeah. Uh okay. Is there any insurance technique? This is from uh Christian Sacco.
+
+[57:40] Is there any insurance technique for emulsifying sauces without egg yolks in a blender? I have the Costco uh Vitamix. You know, I'm sure the Cos, I'm sure the Costco Vitamix is as good as any other Vitamix. Just cheaper. Uh it does he mean the blender?
+
+[57:53] Yeah, no, no. They literally Vitamix make something for them. Everybody makes something for, so like, you know, Costco's gonna sell it for a lot cheaper than everybody else. So William Sonoma doesn't want you to be able to buy the same blender at Costco for cheaper than the one that they you know I'm saying? Anyway.
+
+[58:08] Uh the base of the blender cup is massive and the solid liquids do not immerse well in the blades unless there's a lot of volume. Well, I wonder if the Costco Vitamix can use other Vitamix pitchers. Right? Because they the Vitamix makes a narrow, they make a wide base pitcher and a narrow base pitcher, but at least in the ones I have, they're pretty interchangeable. As long as you don't have one of those stupid Vitamixes.
+
+[58:28] You know what's happened since you moved to uh to Thailand? They've taken the Vitamixes and they've put like chips in the blender thing so that they the base knows what pitcher is on it. It's the worst thing that's ever happened to a Vitamix. Uh you know what? I there's what's the name of those really fancy heater blender things the that everybody has in their kitchen?
+
+[58:46] Thermomix Thermomix. Yeah. I uh every time I talked to I don't use those because you're not European. You need to. Yeah.
+
+[58:53] Um but every time I talk to the people, they're like, the first generation of those things were the best ones. Uh because they just had a dial. There was no screen, there were no chips, there's nothing. Not the computer. Not the computer, and they hate it.
+
+[59:05] Yeah. Uh it's also super expensive. Europeans love it. Americans like can never wrap their head around it because we have like decent blenders. Speaking of blenders, this is a good thing to wrap out on.
+
+[59:14] I saw you give a uh I saw you basically be the uh American in charge of David Thompson's uh speech on Thai food at Star Chefs has gotta be like twelve years ago. And he was saying that you can't make a good uh like uh curry paste in uh in anything other than a mortar and pestle. Agree or disagree, Blender Man. Um if you are David Thompson, that's absolutely true. Yeah.
+
+[59:38] If you're anybody else Well, you know, very few people will argue that you can make a better one than in a mortar and pestle. But plenty of people think you can make one that's as good, or at least good enough that nobody except David Thompson would know the difference. There you go. All right, fair enough. And uh on the way out, do you remember how we first bonded over a how was it 50-pound sack of mangastines on the roof of a hotel in Panama City?
+
+[1:00:04] We went to Panama, we went to the market, it was horrible. There were like dead fish laying on the ground with no ice. Uh, but we found a bag of mangustines. And yes, we went to the rooftop and we sat there and we ate almost the entire bag. Yeah.
+
+[1:00:21] Yeah. Yeah. And then and then we went to uh we ended up getting taken to like a a a burlesque show. That was a nightmare. Yeah.
+
+[1:00:30] That place was uh was an unholy nightmare. But the mango steeds were great. Mangustines were very good. It's probably the best thing about that trip. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[1:00:38] Because you know what the nice thing is? When you have a uh a 50-pound sack of mangastines and a couple of them aren't good, who cares? Yeah, you just throw them over the shoulder. That's it. Yeah, yeah, because you have 50 pounds more.
+
+[1:00:48] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, well, thanks for coming on, Andy. See you tonight at the uh what's it called?
+
+[1:00:52] The pop-up. Pop-up. Uh cooking and juice. We didn't talk about the coffee. Yeah, that's all right.
+
+[1:00:58] Thai coffee, it's the new thing. Yeah.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan and Rockefeller Center, New York City, Newsstand Studios, joined as usual with John right in front of me. How are you doing? Doing great thanks. Yeah?
+
+[0:21] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels over here. What's up?
+
+[0:25] Hey, how's everyone doing? Doing all right, doing all right. We got uh Nastasia the Hammer Lopez holding it down in Los Angeles. What's up? Uh not much.
+
+[0:35] How are you? Fine, fine. Uh, and uh we don't know where Jackie Molecules is. He's uh MIA as of now, but we're we're trying to get a hold of him. And uh in the upper left, we got uh we got the Quinn.
+
+[0:48] What's up? What's uh how's Vancouver Island these days? It's uh good. Yeah. So uh, you know, just to get this out of the way first.
+
+[0:56] We've been we started delivering the spinzalls, and so we've been I've been looking at people's unboxing videos, and so far, so good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[1:06] Uh you're the customer service guy, Quinn. Anyone uh yeah, yeah, it's been uh smooth sailing so far. Yeah, nothing major. Yeah. You know, in the next iteration, maybe we can put some lithium-ion batteries in them so that they're even more of a pain in the butt to ship.
+
+[1:21] You know what I'm saying? That's what you oh my god. Speaking of which, like uh, you know, this is not like one of our subjects, but did you guys see that insane key bridge video? Nuts. Absolutely crazy.
+
+[1:35] It's the craziest thing I've ever seen in my life. Because it's like such a crazy like display of physics. You know, you hit one small area of this bridge, and then like a 1.6 mile bridge just goes boof into the water like instantly. It's horrifying. Horrifying.
+
+[1:55] Yeah. Uh oh, Jackie Molecules, we got Jack on. What's up, man? From DC at that. Oh my god.
+
+[2:02] People are freaking out about that over here. I'm sure they are. It's horrible. Yeah. I had uh a recording from something I was gonna do with somebody that was coming in from Baltimore, and that was why things got kind of wacky today.
+
+[2:14] They're they're not coming in. They're everything was screwed up over there. And yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, that that there's like millions of cars of traffic on that on that bridge. Apparently, like shipping and traffic in that area is gonna be, aside from whatever loss of life there ends up being, it's just gonna be a nightmare for like at least a year and a half, right?
+
+[2:37] Yeah, that's what they're saying. Never seen anything like it. Man, I wonder how much money Maersk is gonna have to pay. They're the ones that contracted the boat. And you said, like, that's so unbelievable.
+
+[2:48] Something that slow. Take out a whole bridge. Yeah, but take out a whole bridge. Yeah. Unbelievable.
+
+[2:56] Unbelievable. Uh oh, hey, Jack, I'm glad you're on because guess what? Nastasia, you might be interested. This is up Nastasia's alley, kind of. So guess whose 60th birthday it is in May?
+
+[3:08] Who's performing a concert? I'll just tell you because it's too boring for you to guess. Maynard Keenan from Tool is turning 60. Yeah. He owns a wine.
+
+[3:18] Oh boy. He owns a winery. He's not playing with Tool, but he's playing with Perfect Circle and you know, Pussifer, however you're pronounced, you know, you know, that Lucifer Puss mix band that he has. And Primus with Les Claypool, who also owns a winery. So two of the wineries that we had on John's least favorite episode of Cooking Issues Ever, the wine episode, are gonna be playing a concert together for a birthday in May.
+
+[3:43] Imagine if we could get them in, do a wine a wine thing with uh Maynard and freaking uh and Leslie. Yeah. Well, you know, uh, you know, Anastasia, you'd like it. You know, he's a Krav Maga. He's a black belt, and not Kravaga, uh, Gracie.
+
+[3:58] He could rip my head off. You would enjoy it. What? It's in May, you might be back even. No, I'm already going to their show at the Hollywood Bowl in April.
+
+[4:10] Yeah, but this is a special birthday round robin with Maynard and Primus playing constantly. I thought No, I know. He's celebrating the birthday here. But whatever. They're also doing one here in in in Brooklyn where we happen to record the show.
+
+[4:26] I'm saying. Then yes, contact them. You're the one that's the the queen of contacting like people that we don't know and saying we used your wines before on a show. Are you interested in doing it again? Something like this.
+
+[4:38] You know, I've contacted him before in like 2019. Remember? No. And were were they like, no thanks? But they're gonna be here though.
+
+[4:49] That's the thing. I'm saying we can we don't even need them, we just have the wines and we can drink it in their honor or whatever. You know. That's all. Yeah.
+
+[4:57] That's all. That's all I'm saying. And we say, you know, we say good things about Les Claypool's wine, Claypool uh Vineyards. We said nice things about it, you know. And I say very nice things about Early Primus.
+
+[5:07] What? Have you tasted both of their wines? I can't remember whether, because uh Maynard's wines are out of uh out of like Sedona, right? Or something they're out of Arizona. Arizona, yeah.
+
+[5:19] Yeah. I don't I don't remember whether we had those. I've had Claypool stuff. I thought it was I thought it was good. Those are his it was in the you know, the the Sommelier, who is a uh former blue man, I think seemed to like it.
+
+[5:28] So, you know, get a salmon, get some, you know. Do rock star wines times, you know, whatever, second edition. And then maybe John will like it better if he's here and not having to listen to it from home. You know what I mean? Yeah, maybe.
+
+[5:43] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was also saying to uh before we started the show uh with uh Joe that uh I missed Purim this year, have not had a Hamintosh, and he says not too late. You can get one this weekend. And we were saying, what's the Homitashin that you guys like the most? What size?
+
+[5:59] What flavor? Apricot for myself. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[6:03] You know why? That's the one that tastes the best. But I do like the poppy crap too, even though it doesn't taste the best. I like the texture of the raspberry's good. Yeah.
+
+[6:11] I had apple not long ago. It was delicious. What? Who's heard of an apple Hamitan? Like, what exactly?
+
+[6:16] But it was good? Delicious. They dope a little acid into that. So it wasn't like a couple worms. So listen, not that kind of acid John freak.
+
+[6:26] So uh what size Homitashin are you talking about? You like the ones, the giants, the the tinies, somewhere in between. I find the big ones are just a little too much dough and not enough fruit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know why?
+
+[6:40] Because they I don't know why they don't lower the the they should increase the center ratio, make the center sh like flatter but bigger. Wider, yeah. Yeah, wider, but not tall. I don't need that much. Yeah, but not taller, but like diameter wise, if I don't, yeah.
+
+[6:54] Yeah, because the the the edge of that triconner hat on that hominan, dry. Very dry. Dry. Heyman. Yeah.
+
+[7:01] Yeah. Well, he's a bad dude. You know what I mean? It's a bad dude. You know what I mean?
+
+[7:06] Uh yeah. So who makes the best one that nowadays? Like Moish's where we used to, I used to go is closed, at least the original with the one on 2nd Avenue. There's one over by my house, but I don't go to that. Who makes the Hamintosh and Debate now, Jill?
+
+[7:19] You know what? I I don't know. I'm a bit of a Homentoshian. Wow. Yeah.
+
+[7:25] Take all comers. Like, no, no matter how bad it is, it's still kind of good. Yeah. As Nastasi would say, just like her grandma. Let anybody in.
+
+[7:33] Yeah. Literally, she said that. When Cliff and Do uh, you know, uh became our intern, she turned around, looked at him and said, We're just like my grandma now. We let anybody in. And everyone in the room was like, What?
+
+[7:48] Remember that, Stanis? That was classic. That's so so wrong. I love it. Oh, guess what?
+
+[7:55] Guess what it is this weekend? This weekend is uh my birthday. But since it's Easter, right? Uh my family, when they came over for family dinner, they made me a birthday cake, and it was freaking awesome. Miley Carpenter, she, you know, was been on the show.
+
+[8:11] She, so okay, so in my family, we use a lot of canned whipped cream, right? And recently I started calling it spray cream. And everybody now in the family gaslight. So one half of the family is gaslighting the other half of the family, saying that we always called it spray cream. And so we're trying to propagate spray cream as what we call it.
+
+[8:34] So Miley makes this cake, covers it in spray cream, then shoves uh, shoves they ridge, my other my other sister-in-law, buys a can of cabots, you know, from Trader Joe's Cabots Weekly, remakes the label to say spray cream, and on the back, like changes all of the like logos where it says how to do it. It's like it as putting it directly in your mouth, spraying it, because you know, me and my my niece, my third, you know, third grade niece, we always have I always have it in the fridge for her. I always have at least two cans in case one runs out, and we're always taking hits the right way, upside down, whipped cream, not nitrous hits, you know, taking a hit off the spray cream. And so she just redid the whole label and says ingredients, spray cream. It's like, and I'm uh I'm gonna post it later, but it wasn't it was great.
+
+[9:20] It was great birthday. And also yesterday, more food related crap, uh, I went to Mush had another dinner at Bar Balud, which I haven't been to Barbelude in a million years. I haven't either. Yeah. Well, AJ, uh, you know, who's the chef at uh AJ Schaller, who's the was at Cuisine Solution, which is Bruno Gusot's McGillakuddy, she moved to Mush.
+
+[9:39] By the way, Quinn, they didn't change their name is still Mush, i.e. mushroom, kind of an unfortunate name, right? But their shtick is that they grow mycelium without making fruiting bodies. And so instead of having like 65, 75% of the biomass be stuff that you can't eat, they f invert that ratio. And so now you can eat like 65 to 70% of the biomass it's created, so it's just much more efficient at creating um fungal biomass.
+
+[10:05] And they can do any like a bunch of different flavors. So they had another dinner. Uh, so they they have a new trademark Quinn called 50 cut. Now, here's what I don't understand. See what you guys think.
+
+[10:14] I w I want your input. What they believe is that the way that they're gonna sell the most of this stuff is, and by the way, they can do it without light, so it's a lot also less energy intensive than growing fruiting bodies, which require like some light because they grow up towards because they're meant to grow outside. Anyway, so uh what they want you to do with it is they chum it up, they make a duck cells, they party hydrate it, so there's zero shrinkage. So what you're buying is roughly, I think wholesale $4 a pound. It's pre cut, it's pre-shrunk down, ready to rock and roll.
+
+[10:44] They want you to mix it in at about a 50% ratio with meat in things like farces, like we talked about last uh week, or uh so they make like a pate's and stuff. Are they working with La Frita? I just got a sample the other day of a 50-50 blend of mushroom beef. In fact, they are. So that's the thing, 50 cut, or they're making hamburgers that are 50% beef, or they're mixing it with anything else.
+
+[11:09] But my issue is what I'm trying to understand is that in a restaurant environment, you don't shrinkage, believe it or not, people who are at home think about this, who don't work professionally. We in the business sell you a hamburger based on the raw weight, right? So we say it's a quarter pound burger. We don't mean after it's cooked. We don't care how much it shrinks, right?
+
+[11:30] We're selling, we're selling you on a number, and then if it shrinks to zero, it shrinks to zero. What do I care? You know what I mean? I told you how much raw meat I put into it, and that's it. You know what I mean?
+
+[11:40] Uh so like the fact that it doesn't shrink as much, the the two advantages they have is like it doesn't shrink as much. It you know, it tastes good because they're mushrooms. Mushrooms are a high value considered a high value item. So it's not like filling it with breadcrumbs or something like this, which is considered an incheappening agent. And and the other benefit that they they talk about, but not maybe as much, is you can hammer the hell out of the burger, and the mushroom never gives up its moisture.
+
+[12:04] So even when you viciously overcook the meat, like just hit it with a dead blow until until it cries for mercy, right? The mushrooms aren't gonna give up all their liquid until they're literally freaking like dehydrated, right? So that's another advantage. But I just don't know how many Americans are gonna understand the I don't understand how it's gonna be written on a menu. And how many Americans are gonna be like, you know what I want?
+
+[12:29] I want half the in other words, like I want to decrease my carbon footprint by half. I think it's like most people are gonna be like, I either want full-on no animal or I want my full-on animal. I just don't know how the market is gonna work. What do you guys think? Yeah, I don't know.
+
+[12:45] That's a good point. Like I don't know, like I guess for me, if there was a full beef burger on the menu and then that, I'd probably go for a full beef. Right. What if it what if there was a mushroom burger where they're selling its mushroom, but then you're only gonna sell a certain number of like mushroom beef, you know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[13:05] I mean, like if you're doing a Wellington, you should buy these for your duck sales all day, every day. You don't have to chop and saute all that stuff. Think of like all the time, like all the space for the raw mushrooms and all the washing and all the chopping, all that garbage. They just hand you these things, you know, yeah, and then you know, you toss them in. Uh, yeah, that's a good, you know, at four dollars a pound.
+
+[13:25] That's by the way, four dollars a pound for they can do lion's mane duck cells, they can do like uh oysters. I think they do oysters, lion's mane, chanterelle, and shiitake. And you can do blends, which is nice. That is, yeah, so far. Um, and cordyceps, but they say it's disgusting.
+
+[13:44] It's like it tastes real bitter. You know what I mean? And for when it's legal, you know, wacky mushrooms. Although, can you cook a psilocybin mushroom? I don't know.
+
+[13:53] I've heard no, but I don't know. I've heard no. I've never tried it, but I've heard I've heard that you can't. Anyway, so that's where I was last night. Wow.
+
+[14:05] Yeah. Talk to Les Claypool about it if he if he comes on. I can talk to Liz Claypool. Right, exactly. Yeah.
+
+[14:11] Um, maybe that's why I never got into later primates because I've just never on mushrooms. Right. Could be. They did stop making songs at a certain point and it just turned into like psychedelic jams. Yeah.
+
+[14:28] Yeah, which isn't my it's not my cup of tea. You know what I mean? Thank God they're not doing that with their wines. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly.
+
+[14:36] Imagine if they treated their wines the same way. Ugh. Anyway. Uh as long as they're not playing like those long jams like fish. But they are.
+
+[14:44] But instead. Is that really that long? Like playing the like like like like Florida Everglades for 24 hours? But it's like a whole album, and it's just like burn, bing, bing, bump, bing, bing, bum, bim, bong, chomp, burn, bing, chum, bing, burn, ping, bing, bing. And then more of that.
+
+[15:00] You know what I mean? I'm like, what, dude? You're incredibly talented. What? You know what I mean?
+
+[15:07] Um, all right. What about you? Anyone else who's who I spent this whole time talking about my food wackiness this week. What do you guys got? Okay.
+
+[15:15] I met up with uh Rich She for on Sunday with Catherine uh Pickley and Kate Dobday. Oh, nice. For for those of you who don't know, that's our cook quest, Mr. Mr. Koji himself.
+
+[15:26] That's right. Yeah. Um and an engineer. And an engineer, true. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[15:30] And uh, I guess proud Boston resident. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. All right.
+
+[15:35] So what's up? What's up with Rich? Um no, it's right. He was showing some of his friends around from Taiwan while he was here. Um taking them to a bunch of good eateries and um other good.
+
+[15:45] Did they go to your eatery? They did not. Oh totally offended. Well it's so burned. It's fine.
+
+[15:52] I think he was taking them to places that were doing a lot of like Koji kind of work. Um they went to one sake producer. So it was more of a rebuke. I suppose so, yes. Um but no, it's really interesting to hear what he's been up to, what the kind of stuff he's trying to do with Jeremy, uh, Umansky down in Cleveland.
+
+[16:12] Um he's got a the Koji Alchemy book coming out in Japanese soon, which he's very excited about. Yeah, yeah. So it's uh it was good. We had good brunch at a place called Leylands in Brooklyn. Uh recommend anyone go in there if they're in that neighborhood near Park Slope.
+
+[16:26] So if you want Rich to come to your restaurant in the future, what would a Belgian take on Koji big? I have no idea. I was thinking about that. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
+
+[16:35] How do you even like is Koji? Well, everything you go to make a bunch of waffles, grow koji on them and then make a miso. That would be pretty. Yeah, but like, you know, what you use like the trash waffles, the ones that are left over to grow the stuff on. I mean, like Belgian waffles are a thing of like different styles of Belgian waffles are a thing of beauty.
+
+[16:58] Do you include like the the crispy, like the ones that are more speculous related in the waffle family, or not? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. It's not the same use case.
+
+[17:10] No. Like, I could legitimately be like, do I want Brussels or do I want Liege right now? Even though I think they're also different use cases, because I'm not picking up every I I could pick up a Liege waffle and walk down the street and eat that sucker, right? Not doing that with the Brussels. Not doing that with the Brussels.
+
+[17:26] You want that's you want that on a plate. Yep. What do you think about putting so much uh powdered sugar on something that you choke when you eat it? Not a fan. Not a fan?
+
+[17:33] No. Yeah. I'm also not because uh I never grew up enough to not inhale as I was eating. You know what I'm saying? Do they make like savory waffles?
+
+[17:45] Not classically. I'm sure there are places that do riffs on it. I know like waffles and dingus here in the city, you know, throws pulled pork on it and does some other things like that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But yeah, like the Italians do like those like meat donuts.
+
+[17:58] I mean, the thing about a Liege waffle specifically, is that uh I don't want anything on it. Yeah. No, exactly. It's like bec the reason I'll say this why is because like the texture difference between the inside and the outside is what it is, and if you put something on it, suddenly the entire thing would become too heavy. It goes from being this thing that's perfect to something like third element, the crunch of the pearl sugar inside.
+
+[18:27] Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like you get I don't want to if you're gonna top something Brussels, yeah. You know what I mean? Uh but I don't know. Yeah, no, I agree.
+
+[18:36] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right. Uh how the hell do we get on that? Oh, Rich.
+
+[18:42] Talking about Rich. Oh, yeah, yeah. Because Quinn said you were gonna be start growing Koji on waffles. Yep. Now, what about you don't even have the right waffle maker, you jerk.
+
+[18:50] I don't, yeah. You want to hey listen, someone offered to buy mine on uh Twitter. You want to borrow it? Me for the restaurant? Potentially, yeah.
+
+[18:58] But if you're gonna use it in the restaurant, uh Ray Waffles, if he's alive, if not rest in peace, Ray Waffles. But if Ray Waffles is still alive on Staten Island, he can swap that to 220 for I think he said like a couple hundred bucks. He could swap it to two twenty. And the advantage if we if we can keep the 120 so that if I ever get it back, I have 120 in a restaurant. You really want that thing to be 220.
+
+[19:20] Yeah. It's just I mean, it makes just as good a waffle off of a of a 120, but it's not boom, bum, yeah, exactly. Just pump them out. Yeah, yeah. And no one wants to sit around.
+
+[19:29] No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, maybe. Maybe.
+
+[19:29] I also have like 15 pounds of Belgian pearl sugar in my house. Oh yeah. For testing. Belgian pearl sugar. Don't substitute something else.
+
+[19:42] Please don't. No. Just don't be a don't be a don't be a dunce. Don't think that because if you look, if you've been there and had the real ones, and you come home and you're like, I want to do something different, fine. Because that's your choice.
+
+[19:55] You're born as a human, you can do what you like. But don't think that somehow, if you haven't had it in the real place, that you can make a substitution and it's just as good until you've had the real one, then make it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
+
+[20:10] Yeah. You gotta understand what you're I don't know, the beginning to to go to go from there. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, anyway, whatever.
+
+[20:17] Uh all right, Quinn, what do you got? You said you got some stuff you've been cooking. Yeah, I mean, nothing too exciting. My dad got a new like uh cast iron flat top that goes on the uh gas grill. So we did a whole like diner fest.
+
+[20:37] We had like bacon sausage. I did some sourdough pancakes because of first I had to you know do something weird. But they're really good, actually. Well, sourdough pancakes are traditional. Yeah.
+
+[20:50] I mean, hyper traditional, you know, especially like uh, but you know, in the old days, um like American like West Coast specifically sourdough pancakes used spent, and then they use a they use baking soda as the actual leavener. So the traditionally American sourdough pancakes, it's you're not using the bacterial, you're not using bacterial leavening or really yeast leavening it's just acid leavening acid acid base leavening off the sourdough but do you like them they're real stretchy right when they're that acid when they're traditionally made like like sour as all get out they're kind of you know yeah these were these were not super sour. I did use like my discard and then yeah extra dairy extra flour I did actually do a little bit of baking soda to neutralize it a little bit but I then I did let it uh ferment for a few hours. But yeah they were good. Yeah I love yeast uh I love yeast risen pancakes oh my god yeast risen pancakes and yeast riven risen waffles that yeasty flavor like a real like Brussels that's not like chemically leavened that's like real man uh yeast is good people hate on yeast all the sourdough weasels hate on yeast yeah yeast is good SAF red by the way I don't have any dislike I don't have any love for French companies exception some exceptions right I don't have any love for them I don't have any hate for them I don't have any love for them I'm not in other words I'm not a francophile not like my man John here you know what I'm saying yeah but like SAF the yeast corporation just beats the pants off of us you know I mean like Fleischmann I should love Fleischmann that's our that's that's our yeast man that's like right around here that's like you know Eastern Seaboard New York yeast Fleischmanns uh or a red star or one of these other like you know good old Mercan yeasts but just SAF just blows the pants off of them and it's freaking cheap.
+
+[22:46] You buy the you buy the brick of SAF, keep it in your fridge. Yeah. I'm a red man. I don't do a lot of real like like uh I don't do a lot of gold. Yeah, and I prefer the gold.
+
+[22:56] Why? You do a lot of sweet. Well, I mean, then you have the option of doing like a brioche or a here's a secret red works in brioche. I do it all the time. You like your high osmolarity?
+
+[23:09] Quinn's a high osmolarity kind of a guy. Again, the high osmolarity yeast still works. And it's not high osmolarity. Have you done a side by side of a regular bread with SAF red and SAF gold? I would like to see it.
+
+[23:23] I I'm not saying you have not done it. I'm curious because I would like to see it. I'm not dying. All right. So you don't know whether it works as well in a regular bread.
+
+[23:32] I buy the one that's optimized for the crap that I do every day. You know what I mean? But anyway, but I would like you should run the test. I'll tell you what, Quinn, we'll spring for it, we'll spring for a container of red, and you can do a side by side. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[23:45] Okay, I'm also doing, well, again, I I haven't used yeast for a few batches. Actually, I I made the switch to non hybrid fermentation. To what? Oh, I mean all sourdough? Yeah.
+
+[24:00] Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You know what I don't have? Patience for that.
+
+[24:04] You know, I used to do that. It's like, and then yeah, I have to treat like this sourdough, like like it's like it's a like it's a pet or like it's a baby. And if I don't feed it right and then it gets all whacked out, to hell with that. I'll tell you something else. I tried the same thing.
+
+[24:17] You know what's even harder to maintain in a normal house if you don't have a is um the uh the brand pickle. So like, you know, obviously I have a crap ton of bran in my house, like bran. So like I have I have gallon containers of bran, trying to figure out something I can do with it. I tried to make all brand cereals. You know what they did?
+
+[24:35] They sucked. They were terrible. If you want your mouth to taste like sawdust, then you could should do an entire only brand cereal. You know what I'm saying? It's nasty.
+
+[24:47] You know, unless I guess I could dope the hell out of it with sugar. But anyway, so I tried making brand pickles with it. And they tasted great until all of a sudden those ferments decided to go wild. And then the whole house smells like poison and the veg smells like poison. It's like, I can't get it to work.
+
+[25:03] You know what I mean? I can't get it to work long term. But there's people in Japan who've been keeping their their you know, you know, nuka pickles alive for like a generation. But you know what I don't have for that? Patience.
+
+[25:14] It's why, it's why we've killed every bonsai we've ever tried to grow. My man John likes bonsai. I do, but I haven't tried growing in a long time. Huh? Too bad, Dax.
+
+[25:22] Yeah, yeah, it's dead. So John, I was like, uh uh John was like, why don't you start one from seed? And and uh, and uh I was like, oh, it takes too long. And he's like, that doesn't have meaning. He's like, you're like bonsai is the practice, right?
+
+[25:39] Yeah, that's the point. Like the bonsai take forever. Like, yeah. Yeah. It's a lifelong endeavor, Dave.
+
+[25:45] Yeah, the Brooklyn guy who's affiliated with the botanical garden over there, with the and Brooklyn Botanical Garden has an amazing bonsai collection, by the way. If you ever go out to the Brooklyn Botanical Garden, like amazing bonsai collection. It's not always on display. Dax buys one, he's young. He's Dax is like, How long will this live?
+
+[25:59] He's like, I don't know, 800 years if you treat it right. You know, and it was uh, you know, dead within a year, you know. Yeah. Dead, dead. And then he was saying that like all the ones that you get at like Home Depot or on the street are already dead.
+
+[26:14] You just don't, they just don't know it yet. It's like the roots have already dried out once, so they're still green. He's like, but they're dead. Yeah. Anyways.
+
+[26:23] Bonsai's. What about you, Stash or Jack? You got any food crap? Oh, what? What did you say, Quinn?
+
+[26:28] What do you got? What do you got? Well, no, I wanted to give a little shout out to the Patreon because I didn't cook it this weekend, but I did uh upload a Patreon exclusive yogurt gelato uh recipe for patrons. Does it have uh God's honest uh cream in it as well or no? Again, it's uh adjustable recipe.
+
+[26:52] So you can tweak the fat content, you can tweak the fat content of the yogurt, and it will adjust with uh either additional cream or milk, depending on the um yogurt. So I uh I'm of that generation where everyone tried to get us to eat frozen yogurt instead of ice cream. And my take was always frozen yogurt can be a delicious product. It is a product, it exists. They just don't call it ice cream.
+
+[27:23] You know what I'm saying? It's like uh this is not a frozen yogurt. I'm not talking about yogurt, I'm not talking about yogurt in general. I was thinking in general, and so like I am triggered by I need to I need to refresh my memory because I don't think people try to do that anymore. I don't think true people try to pass off frozen yogurt.
+
+[27:40] It's yogurt, can you believe it? I'm like, yes, I can because it tastes like yogurt. You know what I'm saying? Anyway, but so this is a gelato with the tang of yogurt, is what you're telling me. Yes.
+
+[27:52] Yeah, yeah. You try it with other yogurt similar things like creme frache. Yeah, yeah. I'm again, I I ran a test of unstrained yogurt and centrifuge yogurt. Centrifuse yogurt is so good on its own.
+
+[28:08] I've never used it in a recipe, but you know, you lobnify that yogurt, and it's like, oh, it's like Greek on Greek, baby. It's so dense. So you know who's got the best just walk into a store and buy Greek yogurt in New York City that I know of is the International Grocery on 9th Avenue and like 41st Street. They also have the best I've ever had, terra muscle, like hands down, like straight spoon. I mean, bread is still nice, but it's just like their teramocalata is just off the charts.
+
+[28:40] Good. You know what I mean? Uh anyway. So you know what I'm disappointed by? Tastes good, but such a pain in the butt because it goes super thin when you're working with it, and then you have to wait for it to set up.
+
+[28:52] Yeah. And then if you put it on something too hot and you don't stabilize it, it it it weeps out. It's just so good and so disappointing at the same time. You know, yes. Yeah.
+
+[29:04] I mean. And then nobody wants to get like a hyper like hydrocolorated out creme fraîche that won't weep because they want creme fresh to be creme fresh and not creme stabilized. You know what I mean? But it's like, I don't know. I don't know.
+
+[29:18] Someday, someday someone will crack that. You know? I just use it whenever I like instead of sour cream. I pretty much only use it as a popping or like a last second finisher. Right, but I mean, the problem is if you're doing that at home, sh do whatever you want, but like when you're doing it onto a plate, on uh like if there's any hot food anywhere near it, you get that that you know, running pile of you know way crap coming.
+
+[29:48] Yeah, and you're just like, uh, and then you look like a you look like a jerk. You look like a moron. And the you know, it's it's this it's the mental equivalent of when you don't squeeze the spinach after you cook it and you bring it to the table with that like grayish black water oozing out of your pile of spinach so the worst would be unsqueeze spinach and like creme frage and then like a dry potato like a dry potato like that's like that's the nightmare of all you're like thanks and then you know some sort of overcooked meat product that's not cut 50% with mushrooms to bring it all back to the beginning uh what about what about you Jack you did you always have something you always went out somewhere that was disappointing when when Stas takes me no just kidding um well two things we uh we we went and supported Ariel for her book launch which was great and then I DJ'd at Thunderbolt um for the after party and that was great. Oh is that the time Nastasia was there as well she was there yeah nice so you can both talk about it great so Nastasia has something to talk about with you great let's do it well we also have the the following night we uh we we hung out at my place with uh Eliza my girlfriend and Nastasia and we got night market uh which was great and we watched get this the 1997 MTV Video Music Awards that I had taped as a kid on VHS. Oh my god my mom digitized for me on a on a DVD so we watched it in it in its entirety with local Long Island commercial oh my god so Nastasia was in heaven she loves a local commercial from Long Island more than I think anything else on earth 1997 the hair must have been amazing.
+
+[31:31] Hold on. But before we go, before we go further into it, because I want to hear Nastasia and your take on the on the V VMEs and circa 1997. What year did your mom digitize it? Recently. Okay.
+
+[31:47] Oh my God. VCR tapes have degraded so much. How many lines of TV resolution was there? Like four? Like how much snow was there in the in the thing?
+
+[31:57] And was the sound like that? Like, how did sound? The sound was so warbly that we thought some singers were terrible, and then we realized, oh, the VHS is probably warm. Oh, yeah. They're not that out of tune, you know?
+
+[32:09] Yeah, VHS degrades like a mother. And I don't even think that people's dub decks now are as synced up as they used to be. People used to like. Anyway, okay. So now now describe describe the uh describe the event.
+
+[32:20] What did you eat with it? Did you have a like a were you eating or drinking something interesting? A large spread from Night Market. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I haven't been to Night Market in years.
+
+[32:30] Still going strong? Still strong, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right.
+
+[32:35] All right. Any any highlights from the 1997? What was 1997? What was winning? What was winning in 97?
+
+[32:42] So get this. The video of the year was Virtual Insanity from Jamiroquai. Oh my god. And the director of that video is also the director of Zone of Interest, the Academy Award winning film from this year. Oh about the Holocaust.
+
+[32:57] My God. Oh my God. Now all instead of like the backgrounds of screaming and all that, I'm just gonna have Jamiriquai in my head if I ever see that movie again. That was a that was a tough movie. That was a tough movie.
+
+[33:11] It was that was a weird movie zone of interest. Anyway, uh wow. So uh what else? What non Jamiroquai related uh stuff was winning in ninety seven? Does your your favorite won an award.
+
+[33:25] I think our fave our favorite part was Marilyn Manson performed at the at the very, very end. It was amazing. It was incredible. Yeah. Are you still allowed to like him?
+
+[33:35] I mean, you know, you can do what you like. I mean otherwise it's like is is he been across the board canceled or no? No, I bought Jack the book. It's coming Wednesday, Jack. Oh wow.
+
+[33:46] Okay. Jack's like, thanks. Thanks, man. All right. Okay.
+
+[33:52] Get this. There was a there was a commercial, like a promo, because MTV had just been Times Square. And they're doing all these they're doing all these commercials on the street for an interview and this commercial, but none other than our 45th president of the United States who goes on some rant about MTV and then looks at the camera and says, and another thing, Hansen blows. Hansen blows. Oh, for Hanson.
+
+[34:18] Hansen is actually what, two people or three people? How many Hansons are? Three Hansons. But they're all the same person. Are they all the same?
+
+[34:25] I don't know. I mean, no. I don't think so. They all had like different things going. Then they made beer, actually, at one point, and they called it M Hops.
+
+[34:34] Oh, good. Oh God. Oh, you poisoned my mind, you son of a mhops. Oh, is that real or are you just poisoning my head, dude? No, it's real.
+
+[34:48] It's real. Go to Hanson Brothers Beer.com. I'm looking at it right. Oh my god, where do they live? Where's this beer?
+
+[34:53] Can we get this beer? God. Let's see. Speaking of beers, you know, there's a uh you know that you know how I love a seven-ounce pony beer? There's a creme ale that's only in the middle of the country that comes in a seven-ounce pony that looks sick, but you no one ships it here.
+
+[35:10] I want that. You like cream ale? Like Genesee? Yeah. Anyway.
+
+[35:14] Um, I mean, it's whatever. I just like the word. I like saying Genesee cream ale. I went to the brewery and had it there. And I was like, this is fun, because right at the waterfalls at the Genesee Falls.
+
+[35:25] So, Nastasia, what was your favorite Long Island local commercial? Um there wasn't any standout. I mean, there was like, why go to New York when you can buy your soups in Merrick? Whoa. You're like, true.
+
+[35:42] Why go to New York when all of your soups can be had in Merrick? It's true. It's true. Yeah. You know?
+
+[35:48] Come to the church and pick it up. Hey, but that's Nest I told everyone knows this who listens to this show regularly. Nastasia streams in Los Angeles, the local. So if you live in the part of Long Island that's directly across from Stanford, she can tell you which church basement to go to to pick up your sausage and pep. Right?
+
+[36:08] Right, Stash? I know where everyone needs to pick up their Easter lamb this Sunday. Oh my God, I wish, I wish. I haven't had baby lamb in so long. That used to be like a family tradition.
+
+[36:20] So, you know, my stepfather's father, Papa was a butcher, and uh he used to get the baby lamb, like, you know, oh god. Baby lamb at Easter. One year I did baby goat because I couldn't get the lamb. Oh my god, baby lamb. So where do you go in Long Island to pick up your lamb?
+
+[36:37] No, I don't know, but I I listen because I I can hear like how badly my house is getting pounded with all your freaking storms out there and rain. So that's part of my listen. But don't you have someone living there, right? So like it's not like you would show up and it's wiped off the planet. Yeah, but she's like, complaining, complain, and I'm like, how bad is it?
+
+[36:59] Yes, it's bad. You're like, you're on the water with nothing like like lit literally, people, literally zero inches between the water and and the thing. There's like a couple of rocks in front of like there's like rip wrap in front of the house, and then it's the Long Island Sound. It's gonna be windy. It's gonna have some stuff like that.
+
+[37:23] It's not sheltered. If you want sheltered, you should be somewhere else. Am I wrong about this, Doz? Yeah, yeah. It's like you know, someone goes to a metal concert and it's like it's so loud.
+
+[37:33] Yeah. Yeah. It's a metal concert, you idiot. You know what I mean? Like, what's wrong with you?
+
+[37:41] Uh, people, people. Uh so uh I am uh it says here, oh, two things I should say. One, uh, if you like this podcast, which I don't know, I don't know, but if you do, give us a good rating on whatever wherever you get your uh fine podcast because it helps us out, right, Joe? Yeah. Absolutely.
+
+[37:58] Yeah. And uh, you know, think about joining our Patreon and uh because we uh well, we should talk about upcoming guests and why they should on the Patreon. For instance, you get Quinn's yogurt gelato calculator, you get the key line pie calculator. Quinn's a lover of calculators. I'll have to say this Patreon people.
+
+[38:15] If you want anything calculated and you want an interactive calculator, all you need to do is like give Quinn the notion that you want said calculator, and Quinn's like, I could do a calculator for that. Pretty much. Am I wrong about this, Quinn? Am I am I? I mean, I mean I feel like it made sense for the key line, especially.
+
+[38:38] Yeah, but my point is is that like things that need to be calculated on the regular, you like to make calculators for 'em. I'm not yeah. I do. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[38:44] And other recipes like your uh your glass and spec. Yeah, but not every person gets the quin calculators. You gotta be on the Patreon to get the quin calculators. If you want the quin calculators, you gotta be on the Patreon. You know what I mean?
+
+[39:00] Yeah. Anyway. Oh, yeah, we got a double feature on April 16th. We're doing solar and the second full episode with uh Kevin Jung from Noma. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[39:20] It's gonna talk about Noma projects. I'm gonna try to ask him what does it mean to close if you're not closing? What does that mean? Like they just hired Magoya on as their pastry chef, right? So if you're closing your restaurant, why are you hiring a world famous pastry chef?
+
+[39:36] What's that all about? So that'll, you know, we'll we'll talk about all of that more when uh when they're on. Uh we should put out because I I think we could probably get more questions. We have the questions. If you put questions in for solo before we can do that, uh do that again.
+
+[39:51] We we could always use more questions, and I promise that I will get to every question you have for them. So, you know, I'll just power through them real fast. You know what I mean? I'll just look you know, John or someone will be here, it'll force me to power through them, right? You can do that.
+
+[40:07] Yeah. Power. When is Pamela coming on? That's not been set up, right? Yeah.
+
+[40:14] Well, so for those of you that don't know, I'm just gonna put this out there in case anyone out there can put pressure on her team. Pamela Anderson. Oh, yeah. Pamela Anderson, uh, her PR person reached out to cooking issues, and I think by mistake, and then was like, hey, like there was part of a collection of cookbooks, and one of them was hers. Right.
+
+[40:39] So it turns out she has a cookbook out now, right? And she's like doing really really great stuff now, and she lives on Vancouver Island, right where Quinn lives. So what we want to do is we want to do the cooking issues road show, where we show up in Vancouver Island, because she's all about like that Vancouver Island cooking, Vancouver Island life. She has some sort of like farm thing. I don't know.
+
+[41:05] But crazy, you know. But as soon as we showed interest, they were like, oh yeah, no, sorry. Well, I haven't heard back yet. I gotta book them again. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[41:17] Yeah. Anyway, uh, so uh how do we come on that? What why how'd that even show up? Who talked about the Stas talked about it, right? We're talking about guests.
+
+[41:25] Oh, guess. Well, this is a possible guest. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. Not confirmed.
+
+[41:31] Yeah. But hopefully. Yeah, far from confirmed. All right. So uh Nastasia, you got you got anything else from VME or no?
+
+[41:41] Uh no, I think that was it. Ariel had a good book party. Yeah. Sure, there was something. Yeah.
+
+[41:48] Was the book party you said the after party was it was at Thunderbolt. Where was the where was the initial party? Um bookstore in Chinatown. I don't remember that. Uh bookstore.
+
+[42:00] Now serving. Now serving it. Yeah. Good book. Great book looks awesome.
+
+[42:07] Yeah. All right. Oh, yeah. Next time I'm in uh Los Angeles. Uh Xander writes in, Xander Emery writes in.
+
+[42:14] I have seen food science articles describing using inert gases. By the way, when everyone says inert gas, the cheapest one is nitrogen. It's just nitrogen. Like no one's no one's going out and buying argon for this because what pain. Argon, so expensive.
+
+[42:29] I've been using uh I've been seeing food science articles describing using inert gases to purge dissolved oxygen from orange juice as a means of preservation and flavor stabilization. Is this worth doing for flavor with fresh juice before it's clarified? What about afterwards? All right. I tried it once and uh I didn't have uh I wasn't like, oh, this is great.
+
+[42:49] And then if you've read Ariel's book, which I recommend that everyone goes and buys Flavorama uh and reads the book, uh, she talks about the difference between um cooked citrus and not cooked citrus as being uh a flattening of it by getting rid of the volatiles. And what's happening when you're purging inert gas through it is not just removing oxygen, but in the technical term for the the gross technical term, and going back to the Hansons with the brewery is sparging. So it's gas sparging. And if you read the patents on how to do it, which you can do it, uh they tell you exactly how much uh you know, nitrogen you need to pump through it. It's one to 40, uh, it's it's it's in it's ridiculous.
+
+[43:29] It's cubic feet per hour per gallon per minute, right? And you put it through, they even tell you where to buy the uh the centered metal like sparging things that you put your gas through. So it's easy enough to test. You know, uh, I don't know how much it's gonna cost in the long run, but with like if you have nitrogen already, or I guess you could use Argon, but if you have nitrogen already, uh you can uh set a uh uh a system up to test it for under like a hundred bucks. I think it's gonna flatten it out.
+
+[43:57] So I think it may extend the life by reducing oxygen and by just making it taste overall crappier than before, but in a more stable, crappy, right? So if your goal is to make something that lasts longer but is slightly crappier, then I would say maybe, but I've never I never really gotten into it. That's is that fine? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[44:19] Uh you you guys know anyone that's tried it that's loved it? Paul did some work, Paul Adams, gotta have him back on the show. He did some work uh with it, see what, see what uh what he says. But I was I actually wrote on the paper all the patent numbers, and they're just even I am bored looking at them. So if I read them to you guys, you know, man, man.
+
+[44:38] Uh Ted Anderson writes in. Hey, could you ask your brother-in-law, brother-in-law is Wiley Dufrain from Stretch Pizza and WD50, Alder and Deuce Donuts, uh, you know, and before that, uh 71 and uh Jean Georges and blah blah blah. FCI. Um could you ask your brother-in-law what brand those dimpled pizza trays are that he served pies on at stretch? Saw him featured on an eater video and the pizzas looked awesome in the tray serves them on seem really smart.
+
+[45:07] Large dimples to theoretically elevate the bottom, uh a touch to uh encourage airflow and therefore to not sog out the bottom of the presumably to not sog out. These are just for serving, not for cooking. Okay? He cooks them in a deck oven, right? Okay.
+
+[45:20] Uh American metal craft. Ask and you shall receive. Uh Nicky Sandwich. By the way, is Nikki like are Nikki, are you a are you an Italian style sandwich, or are you more a Spanish-speaking sandwich? Because there's two sandwich cultures, and I'm not sure which sandwich you are.
+
+[45:40] You know what I mean? You gotta ask, gotta find out. I mean, they're both great. But uh this is for John. Oh.
+
+[45:44] Your bread with uh steak tartare was nuts. Oh, thank you. Loved it. What butter and how do you toast it? Low or high temp, etc.
+
+[45:59] Um the butter is the cabot unsalted butter. Uh it's sourdough from a I don't know, restaurant bakery supplier, uh Pentavignon. But I know it does. You know, they sell to people. Do they?
+
+[46:13] Oh, nice. Okay, there you go. Um room temp butter smeared on both sides of the bread, light smear uh in a medium hot pan until you get the color you want. Uh flip it and same thing until you get the color you want. You salt it though?
+
+[46:28] At the end, a little bit, yeah. Obviously. Yeah, what salty use? Well, you're Malden or are you flirting? Oh dumb.
+
+[46:34] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, do you like it when you get the you buy it in the buckets, the big buckets, right? Yeah, yeah. For those of you that have never bought Malden in a big bucket, just get the big bucket.
+
+[46:44] Just get the big bucket. You're gonna use it. Unless you die, you're gonna use it. And uh it's a lot cheaper. You know what I mean?
+
+[46:49] And if you die, you don't care anyway. You're dead. Yeah, you know what I mean? Get the big bucket. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[46:54] It's so much cheaper. But uh, do you guys like it when you get the giant, giant one? What do you do with it? You smash it or do you just look at it? What do you do?
+
+[47:02] I mean, I look at it and then I smash it. But I love yeah, I think it's so cool the shapes that they they get yeah, that you can find in those. Yeah. Is there like I feel like you know, that's the thing, like, you know, 20 years ago, the first time you have it, you're like, what? And then like it's never lost it for me.
+
+[47:19] No one's ever come up with another salt where they're like, you're like, oh, Malvin's show last century. You know what I mean? Like it just doesn't happen. Malden's great. Yep.
+
+[47:27] True. No? Yeah. Do you like does anyone have any other salt shape that they like as much as Malden for what it does? Would you ever choose the fleur de cell?
+
+[47:39] That style of like tiny weird semi-moist. They're a pain to work with. It's a pain to sprinkle that stuff. Yeah, clumps. I mean, I like it theoretically.
+
+[47:49] I liked it before I had Malden. I was like, oh, this is interesting. Yeah. But but I mean, like, to use it? Yeah.
+
+[47:55] Nah. Is it like in the shape of like the the fish food? Which? Like the the Malden Flakes. Uh yeah.
+
+[48:02] Yeah. But they're always pure almost always like semi like hollow pyramidals. So they look like almost like if speaker cones were square. Got it. Yeah.
+
+[48:13] Um but they're but the the pyramids are always very thin. So like, unlike some of the Himalayan ones that are pyramidal but solid, this is too much. You know what I mean? I don't want to have to grind my salt. Yeah.
+
+[48:26] Do you want to grind your salt, John? No, no, no, no, no, no. No, no. Grind your gears to grind your salt. You don't want to do that.
+
+[48:31] First of all, salt eats all grinders. Unless you only ceramic. You know, you're like, it used to be back in the day before they had good ceramic burrs, that everyone would just throw away their salt grinders after a while. Because they would just get all in nasty. Yeah.
+
+[48:47] Uh all right. So wait, what'd you say? Low temp? Uh medium high. Medium high.
+
+[48:53] Yeah. What does that even mean though? Like between, I guess, like three quarters of the way the knobs up there. Let me ask you this. When you're doing it, like, are you slap testing it?
+
+[49:04] That's how I test my pants. Does anyone still do that? When I when I when I want to see if my griddle is ready, I hit it with my hand. I mean, I I don't know. I just know that when I put the pan on, turn the gas on, by the time I'm done buttering the bread, it's ready to go.
+
+[49:25] Where I need it to be. Yeah. Okay. So you do the water thing sometimes when you're when you're when you're doing other things? Are you a water drop man?
+
+[49:32] I'm a water drop man for searing. I can't yeah, I have. I look for the leidenfrost. Yeah. When the leidenfrost happens, it's time to sear, baby.
+
+[49:40] You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Just before she starts smoking, just before your seasoning starts burning off. Don't you hate it?
+
+[49:47] Don't you just hate it when you're drying your cast iron or black steel and you forget that you're drying it and you get drawn into something else and then the kitchen fills with smoke because you slightly overheated it. You haven't ruined the seasoning yet, but the whole house and you're like, I'm a jerk. It's annoying, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[50:05] Yeah. Because it shows that you're a bad person. Uh from Travis, do you know anything about the uh in scare quotes air hood? And what uh Travis is talking about is a device that it it looks like uh like the creature from Dune, and it like sits up and get like like a big worm that sits up and you put it next to your pan and it's got a fan and a charcoal uh filter and a metal grease thing, and it's meant to reduce the amount of uh trash that you have floating around in, you know, i because you because we all know your hood sucks, so it's meant to take care of that. It's a uh a larger version of what soldering folks use to extract solder fumes when they're soldering.
+
+[50:50] Think about it that way. No, I mean, I mean obviously I know about it. Uh I looked into it. Booker and Dax once thought about building a different style of hood. And uh we thought a portable hood and we thought better about it.
+
+[50:59] We were gonna do uh we were gonna do catalytic. We were actually gonna burn the stuff that comes off. Because if you if you if you next time you have uh like if you're roasting coffee or something like this, if you just burn a really hot flame over, you like can burn all the smoke off. And so people make catalytic burners for uh fireplaces. So I wanted to do a catalytic hood, but you know, we decided that uh we have enough problems making the things that we already make.
+
+[51:29] And uh so I don't know. I haven't tested these guys uh their hood, but I'm happy like if they want to send us one to test. I make plenty of smoke in my kitchen, so you know, happy to test it. But no, I'm dead. Yeah, well, you know, send us, send us, send us two.
+
+[51:44] Send us two, and we'll we'll take a look. We'll see, we'll see, uh we'll see whether it's uh any good. Uh whiz uh Wimsurd writes in uh fresh back from a trip to Oaxaca and ready to continue a life of maïs consumption. In the past, I've always uh made my masa uh from masa harina uh fresh for each meal, but being able to prep out a few days' worth would be very convenient. Has anyone messed with this and noticed any big changes in quality?
+
+[52:10] Fresh versus day old, day one versus day two. I mean, um I've never pre-made, I've never pre-made masa harina. Um but I've used day old masa, like you know, from nixtimalization. I've never kept it more than I think a day, and I'd say it's not as good day two, the machining properties. As long as it's not cooked, it still makes good tortillas, but it you know, the actual tortilla forming properties of it weren't as good day uh two from Fresh Mosh moss, but I don't know if that's only with fresh masa, as opposed, I mean like you know, from nix to mall, ground from nix to mall instead of like from masa harina.
+
+[52:53] I don't know, anyone here ever uh you know made masa harina and then kept it for longer? Nope. Stas, your mom used to buy uh masa. How long would would she be able to keep it? They bought it day uh then used it day uh Yeah, I mean that's the best.
+
+[53:15] That's the best, right? No. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.
+
+[53:20] Sorry, Wizburn. I I don't know. Uh I know that if you nixtamalizing is a pain if you have to do it yourself. So you can also freeze it. You know what I mean?
+
+[53:30] Um but You can? Yeah. I had trouble freezing it. Fresh. One time I made Yeah.
+
+[53:36] What happened? You ground it? I just got really Yeah, yeah. It got really crumbly. Oh wait.
+
+[53:44] Oh, wait, no, I froze the masa. That makes a big difference. You mean a what you're saying freezing it before or after you grind it? I would I would grind it and then and then freeze it. Um you know what that what that tells, but how are you making it?
+
+[53:58] How are you making the masa? I well one time I made it, it was in a uh the clinch. Yeah. I mean, if it's getting crumbly, my guess is is that you mean obviously there was some uh moisture loss on the freezing, right? Or it wasn't fully the moisture wasn't fully distributed throughout the masa, the hydration wasn't fully all the way through it, and then it finished hydrating as it thawed and then needed more water.
+
+[54:28] Were you able to bring it back by adding a little water? Uh it was like last last year. I forget what we did. I think you can freeze it. I'm pretty sure I've frozen it.
+
+[54:37] Now you're making me question myself. I'm pretty sure I have frozen it because when we used to make it a lot at FCI, when I used to make it at home, you you tend to make a lot because you don't want to make it again. You know what I mean? Like unless it's part of your daily routine. You know, in which case it's your daily routine.
+
+[54:54] Um but anyway, sorry. Sorry I don't have more uh on that. Uh asks, is there a rule of thumb? Uh any quinn, is there a rule of thumb to use sourdough discard as a flavorant and then yeast as a leavener? Would you take a typical bread recipe and then substitute 20% of the flour for discard managing water appropriately?
+
+[55:15] I know Dave mentioned this is how he makes bread nowadays. Uh so I typically, I mean, I call it discard, but this is all I use now. So to call it discard is is um I you know, I the way that I work now is I have the starter that's in my fridge, then I use some, and then I replenish it and put it away. So I don't ever discard anything, but I call it discard because it's what the average person would call discard, because they would discard, refresh it, and then use the refreshed one, right? So let's be clear about the terminology here.
+
+[55:52] So I would say that for roughly uh 500 grams of flour, I use somewhere in the area of uh I would say one hundred and thirty to one hundred and sixty grams of starter, which is uh, you know, half of that is it's 100%. So that's um, you know, roughly 70. Actually, you know what? I I'd always do the calculation. I it's always between 50 and it's always between 50 and 80 grams of flour for the 500 uh uh of starter flour.
+
+[56:34] Does that make sense? It's always, and then I I I'm, you know, because I'm using uh all fresh ground stuff, I'm usually running at about 80% hydration. And of course I take the starter into into account. And then I just use a lot less yeast, right? Um so you know, it doesn't really matter if you're not using the the starter as the prime leavener.
+
+[56:56] It doesn't really matter how much you can dial the yeast back, but it really depends on how fast you want the rise to be. But I peg the rise to the amount of yeast I add, and I almost ignore the leavening power of the starter, if that makes sense. Does that make sense? So, like, you know, if you're running a recipe and you want that recipe to, you know, you know, let's say a recipe can go anywhere between a gram of yeast. So for 500 grams of flour plus starter, let's assume a starter had no activity at all.
+
+[57:24] I could see a recipe being valid anywhere between one gram of yeast and six grams of yeast, depending on whether you want that thing to be able to ferment overnight without being refrigerated, or whether or not you want it to be done in in two hours. So you have to mentally scale where you're putting the yeast. Does that make sense? Uh Dr. Smokehouse, I'm building a facility for small 20-person dinners and food education events.
+
+[57:47] Would like to go with an induction system. I plan to have a brevel control freak, but looking for a recommendation on a multiple burner setup. Dr. Smokehouse, I wish I could recommend something to you, but I've never used one that uh uh one, you know, it's been a long time since I've used Cook Techs. So cook techs used to be the ones we would always use, but I haven't professionally used one in a long time, and I I will not recommend something that I haven't personally used.
+
+[58:08] I recommend you use find someone else in the neighborhood that has one that you can become friends with, see whether they like it, see what their problems are. Things to look out for, obviously, does it have power? Does it ever break down, right? That's the thing that happens a lot, they break. Uh and the last thing is does it make an annoying noise that's gonna irritate your cooks uh, you know, unless you don't care about your cooks, in which case, who cares?
+
+[58:31] Um Adam uh says, Good morning from Texas. I'm sure uh you meet people, but I met you at the all the time. But I met you at San Antonio during bar smarts. I'm trying to figure out how to store cocktail pearls so I'm not having to make them on the fly during a busy shift. I want to make my bar uh I want to make it so I can spend more, I want to make it in advance so I can spend more time on guest relations.
+
+[58:49] So the cheeky part of me wants to say, just don't use them at all. The easiest way to store them is in the trash can. However, if you want to use them, the trick with them is to have the sugar content of the liquid and alcohol content of the storage liquid be the same as the base pearl. This way they won't uh leak out. Also, uh, if you're using alginate for your pearl and you want them to stay liquid, you have to use reverse alginate, and you have to put a little bit of calcium in the storage bath or they will disintegrate over time.
+
+[59:19] Uh if you tell me the exact chemistry you're using, I can give you a little bit uh more of a recommendation. Uh Glenn, uh I only have seven seconds to talk about rice washing. Uh I don't think so. The thing is here is you're putting raw rice into the uh mixing glass and you're stirring it and you're trying to do a form of rice washing, i.e., mellowing things like a Negroni. And the article you pointed me to from America's Test Kitchen, uh, you know, they they credit uh people at Leander and like Shannon Ponche.
+
+[59:46] I love Shannon Ponche. She, you know, she used to work at Booker and Dac, so if she says that it makes a better drink, it does. I don't think it's a starch. Starch is pretty inert, it's probably adsorption to the rice grains. This is an easy test to run if somebody wants to run it, but it's too complicated to talk to in the zero seconds I have left.
+
+[1:00:01] Uh maybe next time. Cooking issues.
\ No newline at end of file
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arrow, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, News Stand Studios. No John today, he's on vacation, but I do have Joe Hazen rocking the panels. How you doing? I'm doing great, man.
+
+[0:24] You look great today. Love the glasses here if everyone's watching video. Yeah, full radio, full radio action there. Well, uh, I went to the eye doctor this morning and they dilated the hell out of my pupils. And so even though it's raining out here, like any light, like car lights and stuff, and it's like you know what I mean?
+
+[0:41] Like a like a vampire. You know what I mean? Living up to my skin tone. Uh over there in Los Angeles, we have uh Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing, Stas?
+
+[0:51] Good. Good. Yeah, good. And Jackie Molecules, what's up? Yo, what's up?
+
+[0:56] This is like uh this is like the original show. Yeah, yeah, because we do not have, unfortunately, today in the upper left hand corner, Quinn. Quinn's under the weather, so we hope uh he recuperates uh quickly. Love out to hit love out to Quinn. What did you say?
+
+[1:19] Well, I said, I don't know, I I didn't know if we asked for questions in advance, and not for nothing. It's not like you open your mouth enough stars anymore. You know what I'm saying? Know what I mean? Know what I'm doing?
+
+[1:31] Anyway. Hey, guess this. I hear that uh you are gonna go to the uh Maynard uh slash Primus concert thing on your birthday. Crazy. That's not my birthday.
+
+[1:45] Uh around your birthday. No, oh no, it's my wife's birthday. That's why that's why I can't come, because it's my wife's birthday. It's close to your birthday, though. And uh, whatever.
+
+[1:54] Two buttons. But I'm not gonna get to see that show, I don't think. Are you excited for that show? Do you listen to any of those bands? Perfect circle, I used to, yeah.
+
+[2:02] And I went to his fortieth, so now I'm going to his sixtieth, which is interesting. How was the four four was the fortieth tool though? That was tool, right? Crazy. I actually went to the birthday birthday party.
+
+[2:16] And he was like sitting on a throne, and in order then he had all these mermaids in a tank. And in order to go wish him a happy birthday, you had to walk up to the throne and sit on his lap. Oh my god. And did you have to good old days? Was it like uh was it like Santa Claus?
+
+[2:31] Did you have to like set tell him what you wanted for Christmas or something? I was so scared. I was only 21 20, something like that. So yeah, I was too scared. Have we discussed how like mermaids of all of the ways to kind of have a weird concept of women, that's the least functional of all of them.
+
+[2:54] It's like they can't they're they're f f fish. I mean, I don't even understand I don't understand what's going on. I don't understand why mermaids are a thing. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[3:04] Physiology, right? Yeah, it's just it doesn't make sense. It's like I I don't get it. Like, you know, I don't I don't get it. I think it's about the I think it's about the emotional connection with them.
+
+[3:15] With the mermaid? They're known conversationalists mermaids are? I mean little mermaid, obviously. Yeah, I think I don't know. I think that it's like more than physical with them.
+
+[3:27] I don't know. I just think it's creepy and weird. But uh I think it's creepy too. Yeah. Creepy, creepy crap.
+
+[3:33] Uh all right, so we have some upcoming guests since I have to announce everything. Solo, where's she coming on? Is she coming on next week? Next week. Alright, nice.
+
+[3:40] Next week. Oh, by the way, uh, in the week of things that happened, like I say, like uh this morning, so Nastasia the Hammer Lopez uh mailed me for my birthday a bunch of. Did you get it? Did you get it? I got it this way.
+
+[3:54] I got it this morning. Oh my god. Okay. Yay. Yeah.
+
+[3:58] He y yay, yay. So I open up this package that Nastasia mailed overnight. Right? In like a uh, you know, like in a baggie with yeah, overnight. In in like an insulated McGillicuddy, right?
+
+[4:14] Overnight. Overnight a week ago, almost. Like Wednesday, right? Yeah, like six days ago, right? Shows up today.
+
+[4:23] No like note on it. Oh, uh, hey, sorry. You know what I mean? Nothing. So I opened it up.
+
+[4:29] Nice, nice big ziploc of tamales. Well, thank you. But I mean, I gotta get the bug counter back on the uh, you know, I gotta get the riskier not people back on because I don't know that six days on a loading dock for the for the United States Postal, remember, why is it not the postal service, Nastasia? No service. No service, no service.
+
+[4:52] And I say this is someone who used to work for at the post office. That was the roughest job I think I ever had was the post office. Of all the jobs, I think that was the roughest because the hours just blew hard. Anyway, uh, so yeah, so it shows up, and I'm I'm not sure about the tamales. The the uh the um I wish I had had it would have been awesome on Easter to have the uh the Coscaras on Easter.
+
+[5:13] That would have been awesome. But they were intact. That's good. But the avocado, which I'm sure you shipped in fine shape to uh ship, had gone completely soft in the package, and then when the person was using the the the box as a a maracca, had like pasted the avocado all over the inside of the other citrus, so it had all gotten wet and molded. So I opened it up, I'm like, that's a heady smell.
+
+[5:42] But it's all like molded, moldy, like what looks like it was at one good time citrus, except except the kungquats. The kumquats were okay because they were in their own Ziploc bag. And those are safe to eat. And speaking of kumquats, big thanks out to uh Han at uh Kato uh for mailing me a giant, giant Ziploc bag of uh dried kumquats. These ones are so dry, they're like chewy.
+
+[6:07] So I just sit there and I I'm chewing on them. I'm already like a quarter of the way through the bag. We appreciate it. Uh I was shipped by somebody, also same time it showed up. Like literally, I was almost late to the show because I opened the door and they decided I think what happened was is they waited, they wanted to wait for everything to show up to deliver anything.
+
+[6:25] So I got a giant air conditioner, like your package, does, and then uh some syrups, which it was hard to see. The the craft paper was such that with the dilated pupils, I couldn't read what the heck what the heck was going on. So I just took a knife and just cut the whole box open because I couldn't figure out where all the tabs or anything were or even how the tape was working. I couldn't see anything. So I just shredded the box and I found that there were these vials of syrup inside, and I saw that there was writing on the inside of the shredded box, so I took a picture of it, and once my eyes are working better again, I think they're starting to come back.
+
+[6:57] Uh, I'll read it and then I'll bring it when John's uh here and we can taste it on the air. So whoever it was that sent me the syrups, I'll know who it is once I can read again. Uh so thanks. Uh yeah, what do you guys have? We um we were together on Easter last year.
+
+[7:13] Ooh, Easter Austin. Friend of the show, Austin Hennley. Um, and we uh had a bunch of I don't remember where he got them from, Stas, but we got a bunch of kebabs. We had a big kebab spread. Yeah.
+
+[7:27] What's your idea of a kebab? What's my idea of a kebab or what? Okay, so like so like in other words, like there's kebab kebabs, like so. If you go out for kebabs at a real place, and then there is the I grew up in the 70s in America, giant chunk of meat on a stick with like raw vegetables that are on a grill for 35 seconds, kebab. No.
+
+[7:47] Right, not no, not the not that. Which but I still have a sauce buffer, by the way. Yeah, they're no, they're not. That's like that's like the 70s America, let's do this different thing on a grill. But it is what it is.
+
+[7:59] You know what I mean? Yeah. You've had them before, right? You know what I'm talking about. Of course, of course.
+
+[8:06] Of course. Yeah. So these were more classic things. These were more kebab kebabs. A Long Island.
+
+[8:11] Yeah, yeah, yeah. These were not. I mean, this this was more like, I don't know, Saz. How would you describe this? It was like a patties of meat that were seasoned, and then like chunks of meat that were seasoned with like rice and stuff and garlic sauces.
+
+[8:29] Yeah, like a Mediterranean. Yeah. Yeah. There's this Turkish kebab I've always wanted to try that's not that's the one that they cook in clay. Have you seen this one?
+
+[8:38] And you go to the restaurant that they where they do this, and outside on the sidewalk is just like a big pile of clay because they cook it once in the clay and then the and then they they take it out of the clay and they serve it, and then you walk by the restaurant and you're like, I don't even care what it tastes like. I just want that big, I want that big anything that comes, I want it. You know what I mean? I want it. I need to go back to Istanbul just for that you know what I mean not for the delicious cheese string cheese I've said many times super on point there not for the you know awesome Lakerta fish that they have uh coming through the straits there just to have that freaking lamb kebab in the clay that'd be great if the patrons were able to actually make destroy the clay part of the experience.
+
+[9:18] Yeah I don't know whether the server does it for you they also have a really good cooking in sand game in Istanbul you know what I mean like a really good cooking in sand on the street game like a really good street cooking game in general anyways I would love to go back someday someday someday um wait what else was it what else did that bring me to mind that you uh you were just saying it'll come back to me so what else what else you guys do this week anything so well uh not to not to go back to last week's topic but um we did watch more of my childhood recorded video music awards together and did you have also ninety eight or was it still ninety seven this was ninety six and ninety nine ninety six yeah what was ninety six was ninety six was ninety six Green Day's second album ninety no there's no no sign of Green Day and 96 was not that great actually 99 was was way more eventful. Um and get this in 99 right the spoiler alert the uh video of the a year was Lorenthell and they have Paul McCartney up there to announce the winner and he like kind of fumbles with the envelope and he he opens it and goes, and the winner is uh some guy named Lawrence Hill. Oh my god. So Nastasia, did that did that kill it for you? Because for those of you that don't know, that's Nastasia's that's Nastasia's freebie.
+
+[10:43] Number one. Freebies, please. I'm not sure. No, in other words, like no matter what relationship you're in, that's the freebie. Doesn't matter who you're going out with, if if the Paul McCartney becomes available, the Paul McCartney, it's a freebie.
+
+[10:56] You're good. Yeah. Yeah. Um didn't damage it, still good? Yeah.
+
+[11:02] She's now Lawrence to you. She's always a Lawrence to you. All right. Uh all right. Well, back on uh food for one second.
+
+[11:09] Made me think of what the kebabs. You know what I found in the laundry room? So we have a weird laundry room in our building. Uh we're getting seriously fishbowled right now. We have this weird laundry room where people drop off anything.
+
+[11:20] So, like literally, like someone's like, I don't want this can of beans, and they put it in the laundry room. Or like one time they left a toilet seat. I don't want this toilet seat. They left the toilet seat in the laundry room. A couple of weeks ago, a giant baby's head, like a huge baby's head, like giant, like three times bigger than like like an old school diver's helmet size baby head.
+
+[11:39] That I did not take because I knew that that would end poorly for me. But they also threw away two like individuals serving tajines, and I've never owned a Tajine. I haven't cooked with it yet. Any of you guys Tajine people? Anyone?
+
+[11:50] I cooked with a Tajine once, and it was okay. I wasn't sure why it would have been better than another method, you know? Because it looks so sick. It does look like a little bit. Joe, are you a Tajine uh?
+
+[12:03] Yeah, I have a Tajine. I've used it quite a few times. Um how big is yours? Are they probably big? I think it'd be better if it was big enough for like three or four people.
+
+[12:10] Mine's like seriously, like one or two people. No, no, no, no. I did the ones and like two people. Oh, you know, I'm I I broke mine too hot. Too hot.
+
+[12:19] Uh no, I didn't mine's about four or five people. It's about as big, maybe as large as like a large pasta pot um you know for boiling water. A little bit a little bit bigger. And what do you do? Did you do some some lammy couscouski thing?
+
+[12:30] Lamb, apricots, dates. Oh, that sounds good. I like fruit and lamb. Oh, I love fruit and lamb. I had baby lamb for Easter.
+
+[12:37] I love fruit and rice. Yeah? Love it. I do too. Some people don't like the sweet with the with uh the rice and savory.
+
+[12:43] I enjoy it. You know, uh Europeans used to love that crap in medieval days. We gotta bring that stuff back. Everyone else in the world knows about it. Why can't the Europeans have it again?
+
+[12:51] I don't know. You know, it's part of uh it's very it was always rice is always a very important part of the Sephardic Jews, so we always Passover, we are we were we've always eaten rice. You know, and so that was always very important. We always had rice on the stove. Yeah.
+
+[13:04] Rice and pasta. My mom my mother's Sicilian, so like it was always pasta, and then my father said we always had like rice, rice and lamb, rice and vegetables, and rice and grape leaves. Yeah, man. He you uh, like I say, I had baby lamb for Easter, so that was good. We did it low temp.
+
+[13:22] We did uh 55 or 54 five hour. They were already it wasn't a whole lamb, it was uh legs, and they were a little bit butterfly out flat. So fit and then dropped to 52. We did it just like a steak, and then I took it outside on an infinity grill with a Sears All Pro. I have nice pictures we can post later, Stas.
+
+[13:38] I know you like those pictures of me Sears all pro in uh the the day away for Easter with uh the baby lamb. But I love baby lamb. I mean, that's such a childhood thing for me because you know, my stepfather's father was a butcher, he used to get the baby lamb, then you know the baby lamb, it's delicious. Some people like the baby goat. It used to be baby goat was cheaper than baby lamb, so I could buy a baby goat and not have to break the bank.
+
+[14:01] Because they taste very similar. But now baby goats just as expensive, if not more, I think. I don't know, I haven't checked recently. Because my mom bought it. Um, what else?
+
+[14:11] Had some more food stuff I wanted to get to. Well, I don't know. I don't remember it. You know, as my mom says, uh, if it's important, uh, you'll never remember. Your mom ever say that to you?
+
+[14:20] If it's really important, you'll forget it until it's too late. You know what I mean? I guess she knows me because I'm Mr. Tangent. So, like, if it's actually important, I'll probably never get to it.
+
+[14:29] You know what I mean? Yeah. All tangents all the time. Uh also next week, actually, next week's a dual episode, right? So we also have uh Kevin Young coming on from Noma and Noma Projects.
+
+[14:42] So you're gonna need to get in all your questions. I know we already asked for some questions for solo, but why don't you guys go look at her book again? We're gonna I'm gonna see if we can put her book back on the Kitchen Arts and Letters discount for our patrons. Uh, and then get your questions ready for Kevin. I think he's gonna bring in some funky stuff from Noma to taste.
+
+[14:58] Uh so we'll taste some other stuff. So anyway, there you go. There you go. Uh all right. Oh my god, I put my okay.
+
+[15:03] I'm gonna see if I'm blinded by the light. Uh what is it? Strapped up like a douche. How does that song go? Blinded by the light, strapped up like a douche.
+
+[15:11] And what has that go? No, it's written by Bruce Springsteen, right? Really? Yes. But what are they actually saying?
+
+[15:17] Do they actually say do like a deuce? Oh, deuce, like a poop. No, I wasn't a deuce, like wrapped up like a deuce. Like it wasn't 40 uh 40 seconds street called the deuce. Like deuce coupe?
+
+[15:28] Maybe it could be a deuce coop. You don't know. You don't know what I got. Little deuce coupe, you don't know what I got. Yeah, look that up.
+
+[15:35] Oh, it's very, very bright, but I can see again with my glasses. Amazing. Uh what do you got? Oh. What spins all stuff?
+
+[15:43] Oh spins all cheese, Louise. Let's do some questions, then we'll get back to spinzalls. You want to do spinzalls first? I feel like we should get some questions. No, you always wait to the last five minutes to do questions.
+
+[15:54] What's the rush now? Wow. Wow. Wow. Man.
+
+[15:59] Wrapped up like a deuce, another runner in the night. So that's poop. Revved up like a deuce, another runner in the night. Yeah, you run out of bed because you're set on spray. Okay.
+
+[16:11] It's wrapped up like a deuce, another runner in the night. Needs to poo. I'm going with what do you think? But it's written by Bruce Bernstein. Yeah, well, you know, everyone poops, even even the boss.
+
+[16:21] No. You think the boss doesn't poop? To deuce coop. How do you why do you wrap a car? Do you know who the opening for the boss?
+
+[16:31] Who? Uh Olive Oil Nick. Oh, yeah. Mr. Oily, Mr.
+
+[16:39] Bansuri baseman is opening for the boss. The boss. The one and only the boss. Wow. Wow.
+
+[16:50] Hey. Yeah. Alright, well, that's awesome. That's congratulations to him. That's great.
+
+[16:56] Um spot spinzalls. So spinzalls. Before you go into questions, uh, or before you go to spinzall, one quick thing from the Discord, and we did get another question come in, so remind me about that. But um, somebody made a point that um we didn't give enough love to now serving, which we absolutely should have. So this is our more love to now serving, which was the um cookbook store in uh LA that Ariel had her event at.
+
+[17:23] It's not I don't know to give love. You guys who live in LA, why don't you freak shows give love? Well, that's that's what I'm saying. Um we, yeah, we didn't. Nastasia and I.
+
+[17:32] What do they need? Love. What do they need? No, they're right. It's uh we kind of just brushed by it because we were talking about other stuff.
+
+[17:40] So anyway. Um for those that are not in LA and are visiting LA, they should check it out because it really is uh an outstanding cookbook store. Tiny little ballbook balls. Selling it stuzz. Selling it.
+
+[17:57] So is it used or new books? New. Alright, nice. Yeah. All right.
+
+[18:03] Uh and they're knowledgeable folk. Yeah. No, no. Absolutely not. Man.
+
+[18:09] There's a whole conversation about it in the Discord. I mean, you know. Join the Patreon. You can check out the Discord. All right.
+
+[18:16] That's right. Exactly. Uh so the spinzall, right, is the centrifuge that uh Nastasia and Quinn and I are manufacturing selling and and uh along with Monitors Pantry, and they've they've gone out. The vast majority of them are gone out. Here's what I'm gonna say.
+
+[18:30] Most people, it's great. Some people are getting their lids stuck. So what you have to do, everyone's like, I want to be really gentle with it, so they hand wash it. Don't do it. Just put the rotor in the dish washer and get all the sugar off it.
+
+[18:46] If you assemble that love that thing wet with any sugar on it, the lid's gonna get stuck on it. And I designed it so that you could dishwash it. It's gonna be fine. Just the the thing that it's an enemy is sugar. If the sugar sticks on it, I actually let them dry with the lid off so that you can just put you know, it it it's never a problem then.
+
+[19:05] So uh other than that, it's been uh good. Also, anyone who can hear me who has one, put a layer of blue tape. So the way it works is it's got a rotor and it's like it's kind of like a food processor, but instead of it sitting on a hard thing, there's a little rubber McGillah that the rotor sits on so that it doesn't vibrate too much, so it's not loud. That rubber thing is a little bit sticky, and so uh the rotor can get hard to take off such that you have to like almost like kingkong it off of the shaft because it's sticking to the rubber so hard. And in version one, we had the same problem, and I used to get mad because people were ripping the rubber thing off all the time, right?
+
+[19:41] So I told I told the folks at the factory, make the washer around the rubber thing bigger so that the rubber doesn't come off, right? Problem is is that now I realize just how hard sometimes that rubber thing would stick to the rotor. So just put a layer of blue tape. I have a video up. You can look at it on uh you know, cooking issues uh YouTube.
+
+[20:00] Uh just put a uh like one piece of blue tape around the the rubber octagon piece, and then the you're not gonna have any not gonna have any problem. What else do you want to say, Stas? But you can still buy some, some for sale. They're working great, they're fast. Uh Mike Capaferi at Thunderbolt LA has been using the proto for the past, I don't know, month and a half because he won that contest, and uh he has a lot of luck.
+
+[20:22] They're better, stronger, faster as the uh as Steve Austin would say. Uh six million dollar man. Uh what what else do you want me to say, Stas? No, that's that's good. Yeah, we also, by the way, I don't know if you know this.
+
+[20:34] Uh we have a very small number, and we don't have any built, and we actually don't have an agreement right now to build more of them. We have a small number of Sears All Pros, and I have to say, all like shilling aside, the Sears All Pro just beats the snot out of the original one. It just really just beats the snot out of the original one. So just go on we and they're only available right now on the Booker and DAX website, and we only have I don't know, a couple hundred of them left. And it's just, oh my God, I was using the Sears All Pro on the baby lamb, and my brother-in-law, who I actually thought I was getting one for for Christmas, but couldn't because they uh we couldn't even ship them to ourselves.
+
+[21:10] Remember that beautiful day, Stas? Yes. Yeah. Uh so he was like, Oh my god, this is faster. I'm like, Yeah, yeah.
+
+[21:19] Things got things got uh things got the juice when you're running it on map. Anyway, uh good enough, Stas. We good? We good? I think so.
+
+[21:30] All right. Uh from Zev, I just saw Chef Steph's post about the control freak home. Now, for those who don't know, Chef Steps, the company who makes Jule was bought by Breville, who makes the control freak when Bre So Breville kind of like Breville, Australian Breville, bought uh Chef Steps. They also brought PolyScience. So when they did poly science, they didn't actually do uh a too much innovation on the circulator side with it.
+
+[21:56] For some reason they bought Joule instead. I don't know why, but that's what happened. Uh but what they did do under the poly science name was the control freak, which everybody who has one knows is the best standalone uh 120 induction unit you can buy. It's just very expensive, right? So they're coming out with a new version, and Grant Cree from Chef Steps is still with them because his picture's all over their website.
+
+[22:19] And they're doing one called the Control Freak home, which is slightly smaller. So that's what we're talking about. And it really is. I have the original one from you know years ago, and it really is just a great uh a great induction uh burner. Anyway, very curious to hear Dave's thoughts about uh if he knows anything about the new control freak home.
+
+[22:34] The smaller size seems like the biggest advantage, as it's not that much cheaper than the original. I'm mostly curious to know if it's as good as the original. Uh, it's still more than I can reasonably justify for a new kitchen toy. Well then what are you worried about, Zev? If you're not gonna buy it anyway, what do you care which one's better?
+
+[22:48] Get the better one if you're not gonna get any at all. If you're not gonna buy one at all, don't buy the most expensive one. Am I right? Come on. Um, maybe you can ask for someone for a gift.
+
+[22:59] Do you have any rich friends? That's what you need is rich friends. Uh but if it really is just as good as the original, I may be able to convince myself, ah, there you go, and my spouse spouse to splurge. Well, I don't know. I haven't used one, Zev.
+
+[23:08] Uh, it looks like both the it looks like they're not gonna make the original one the way they made it anymore, and that the control freak is changing. There's a lot of things for as good as it is, there's a lot of really stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid things about the original control freak. For instance, like not as stupid as the idiots walking down New York City in the rain with umbrellas. Oh my god, I hate walking in this city in the rain with idiots with their giant umbrellas walking slow like cattle. Oh my god, when I'm trying to get to the radio show, Stas, is that like something you you miss New York City people walking in the rain with their giant umbrellas?
+
+[23:43] No, I don't miss it at all. It's the worst. Truly the worst. It really is. Why are we so stupid here?
+
+[23:50] Like with it's like the rain comes and we just become the dumbest people on earth. I don't I don't get it. You know what I mean? Like, you know, people in Scotland don't do that. They're like, I'm getting wet now.
+
+[24:00] Boom, good. You know what I mean? People in LA don't walk. Fine. You know what I mean?
+
+[24:04] Like here, it's like the worst of all the worlds. I don't get it. Anyway. Um the original one was very stupid for a couple of things. One, it had a lot of really good software, and it had a USB uh hookup where you could put a USB key into it.
+
+[24:22] But what they didn't give you was the ability to upload your own programs. In fact, I talked to them years ago, and uh, you know what they said? I was like, hey, listen, like, you know, I could get together all of uh, you know, the people I know, including Philip, you know, who you developed it with ostensibly at Poly Science, because I talk to him all the time, Bruno Gusso, we can get together, we can write a bunch of cool like sous vide programs and different programs for this because you have a USB input. And you what you know what they said when I when I called them? They said this.
+
+[24:52] And that's it. It's it's the same response as when I went to Absolute Bagel. Uh, you know, which absolute they, you know, you apprentice with Essa the years ago. This is like maybe 30 years ago. I walk in, I was like, you know what you should do?
+
+[25:07] I love your pumper nickel, I love your everything. How about a pumper nickel everything? You know what they said? And that's it. And I walked out and I was like, you're lost.
+
+[25:17] Now everyone has pumper nickel everything. It wasn't a thing. They could have been the first pumper nickel everything. Pumper nickel everything is a good bagel. I'll I'll tell you this pumper nickel everything is a good bagel.
+
+[25:26] I'm not saying that it's not, it's not a traditional bagel, but it's a good bagel. At one point, the everything wasn't a traditional bagel. In my lifetime, the everything wasn't a bagel. You know what I'm saying? Anyway.
+
+[25:36] Do you guys like pumper nickel bagels? Do you like everything bagels? Do you like everything bagel? Do you like a pumpernickel everything bagel? It's good.
+
+[25:44] I don't think it's for me. Well, you're that guy. You're the guy. I'm your problem. I'm your enemy.
+
+[25:51] You're the guy. I look at him and you just put this goofball smile on your face and say, eh. Same as Breville. But now, you know, Breville is doing the stuff I think that I asked for. So with Chef Steps that they now own, who's very good at that sort of thing, uh, I think they're making it so you can do really good programs on it.
+
+[26:10] And they're also, one of the issues on the uh on the control freak is you can set the temperature, right? You couldn't, you can't set the wattage, right? You used to be able to set in the control freak either full blast up to temperature. There was three different like slow, medium, and fast, but now they give you actually control over the temperature and the power input, which is very important for things like deep frying. Uh it's also uh very important if you really want to keep something low and don't want it to ramp up too fast because uh because there are issues with it.
+
+[26:39] So I think it's all in all going to be an upgrade across the board. I have not touched one, so I have no idea. Uh one of the things that the control freak does that other units don't do is uh is they are actually not lying. It can actually put out the power that it says it's gonna put out for a long, long time, even with a big load on it. Uh and uh I've measured other crappier, smaller induction, the cheap ones, and they don't.
+
+[27:05] They just throttle their power down. One of the reasons they can do that is there's a lot of very good cooling in the control freak, and that is of the electronics, and that is why the unit is so big. So if on the control freak home they're able to just shrink it and uh and have it have the same cooling and be the same bulletproof nature in terms of not overheating, then I would say it's better because the one thing I don't like about the control freak is how freaking big it is. I understand why it's so big, but whatever. So, like, as long as the other parameters are the same, I would prefer to have it smaller.
+
+[27:37] Is that what do you think? Covered smothered, covered smothered? Covered smothered. Yeah, maybe look, have them on the show. Get Grant on the show, have them bring it in, whatever.
+
+[27:45] Well, you know, I like Grant. Grant's good people. Haven't spoken to him in a long time since they sold the company. Uh Mathman writes in Hey, cooking issues crew. Is there a resource or guidance for properly setting the crystal structure of beef tallow after rendering?
+
+[27:58] I had some uh on the top of my beef stock that I skimmed off, melted to remove water, and then cooled. However, after cooling, it formed a slushy, partially crystalline mush, even in the fridge. I had to reheat it up to about 100 C and then put it in the freezer before warming to room temp to make it form a hard tallow that I'm gonna try to use to make a shepherd's pie crust with. I presume you need to remove all the crystals and then cool at a certain rate or temperature to ensure a hard product. Well, there's a couple of things going on.
+
+[28:25] There are different crystal forms, obviously, in fat and depends on how you on how you set them, but I that's not, I think, the main problem you have here. I think the main problem you have here is that uh first of all, when you're skimming it off the top, there's water in it. So when you then heated it up in, you know, with not in stock and vaporized any water that was kind of mixed in with it, and then set it in the freezer, you are just getting rid of a lot of the impurities that were in it. That's one. But two, the stuff that you're supposed to make pie with, right?
+
+[28:55] First of all, it's let's go sue it. Let's not because tallow can be any sort of like rendered fat, right? Uh like horse tallow. Like for like French fries back in the old days. Uh, you know, that's it used to make McDonald's.
+
+[29:06] Wasn't it horse? No, it's a beef, it was beef suet. But horse, I I hear horse fat makes good French fries. I ain't never had it. You ever have horse fat fries?
+
+[29:14] No. No, it's beef fat they used to use. Anyway, the stuff that you're using to make shepherd's pie is kidney fat, aka suet, and it is much harder because it has a different triglyceride makeup than the rest of the fat around the animal. So the fat of that beef has, the the hardness of the fat is dependent on the fatty acid components that are in the particular fat, and that varies from animal to animal depending on the feed, depending on how old the animal is. So I've had grass-fed meat that's like seven, eight-year-old cat like the old, old cows.
+
+[29:50] And that meat is like, I mean, that fat is like almost like liquid. It's like squishy. It's like, you know, not at all hard. It's like very unsaturated, right? So that's never going to get hard no matter what you do.
+
+[30:03] Muscle fat, grass fed in general, is softer than grain fed cows. But muscle fat, the stuff that you trim or that's in stock, right, is always, and plus also there's stuff that's rendering out of the bones and marrow and other fatty things that are coming out of it. All of those lipids are softer than suet, which is the hard, hard, high steeric acid fat that is coming from around the kidneys, aka kidney fat. That's what you want for your shepherd's pie. Now you could selectively crystallize it, and you can do that with a spinzall, but it is a pain in the behind, and your yields are small.
+
+[30:41] But it's fun to do once or twice, but I definitely wouldn't do it in a restaurant. Covered smothered. Good? All right. What contributes to the uniquely crunchy texture of Sukamoto, the Japanese pickle style, uh, and how can I make them at home?
+
+[30:57] Uh I ate them obsessively in Japan, but have had trouble finding them here in the United States and would like to make my own. The recipes I've seen often use some sort of press during the pickling process. So I was wondering if the compression plays into the final texture. Any tips for recreating those at home would be great. All right, well, uh I called up, or I shouldn't say I called because I didn't.
+
+[31:17] I texted uh Ariel Johnson, author of a Flavorama. And she uh she I asked her because you know I was like, I don't know, she's an expert in that. Uh she said, yeah, the really dense, crunchy ones you uh pre-salt under a lot of weight, then drain off a lot of the liquid, then ferment under pressure as well. So the pre pressure with the salt, instantly expelling a lot of liquid. She also says those are mostly turnip or daikon based pickles.
+
+[31:43] And then I said to her, just so you know, I was like, oh, why would those techniques make it crunchy though? Other than turnips and dicons are already crunchy. Usually my stuff, pickles in general, goes soft if the ferment is too slow or too hot. Could it be the higher salt on the exterior prevents that softening? I forget what what bacteria slash enzyme bull crap causes uh them to go soft if they ferment at too high a temperature.
+
+[32:04] And then she said, uh, putting it under a lot of pressure removes the water, but I also think collapses a lot of the internal voids in the structure. So the pickles are a lot denser. It's a different kind of crunchy than fresh vegetables with a high turger pressure that relies on holding onto a lot of water and keeping pectin intact. What do you think? Got Ariel?
+
+[32:22] I mean, she wasn't here live. Next time we'll get her live to come do it, we'll have her back on. We should just make her a regular guest if she wants to be, you know what I mean? I mean, like, yeah, we can have her on as often as she wants to come on, in my opinion. But uh, what do you think?
+
+[32:33] Covered smother? Good? All right. Uh, worst salad. By the way, if your name is worst salad, I think you kind of have to say what you think the worst salad is.
+
+[32:42] I don't even know what's the worst salad? Like what's like what in your minds, what is the worst kind of salad? I think like really over anything that's really over. Over what? Grass.
+
+[32:56] Oh my god. So you do you hate, do you hate like like a mayonnaise y salad, like Waldorf or one that's no, I just yeah. Is that anything that's like all liquidy? I can't. Yeah, like like wilted and over-oiled.
+
+[33:13] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know what? Uh reassures has shown that it's actually the vinegar that makes it wilt in the oil, but it looks like it's the oil because then the oil penetrates in and makes it look all oiled out and gross. Yeah. That makes sense.
+
+[33:27] Um what about jello salads? Oof. That's gotta be up there with worse salads. Is that like um like the ambrosia? Like those are like the shredded carrot in the milk with the jello and the you know what I mean?
+
+[33:43] A little sugar? It's like a sweet, it's like half of it's like halfway to dessert, but you serve it uh on the side of your of your stuff. We used to look now it's only a Thanksgiving we eat a bunch of sweet jelly crap at uh during dinner, right? But it used to be that we would have these sweet jelloed salads from time to time. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[34:01] Anyway. Uh what about a potato salad? Are you guys a cold potato salad, a mayonnaise potato salad, uh warm potato salad, vinegar potato salad? Where are you guys on potato salad? Indifferent potato salad here.
+
+[34:14] Any? Well, indifferent about potato salad. What what is wrong with you? Yeah. Wow.
+
+[34:22] Like potato salad's never the side I'm going for. You know, like if it's if it's like a side at a barbecue place or something, it's like I'm I'm not choosing it. But I I I like it fine. Skin on or skin off? Depends on the potato.
+
+[34:35] What what about uh what about a little celery? You like celery? I like a little crunch. Am I bad for liking a little celery in mine? No?
+
+[34:44] No. I wish I liked the German style more. I'm more of an American potato salad. I appreciate a good German potato salad, but I don't I wish I wanted it more than I want the American one. But also, like Nastasia says, what I don't like, and maybe this is why if you use it, is the ones that are too sweet and they they overcook the potatoes, and then there's they're in so much of the goop filth that like it's just like and and then the potatoes get that weird kind of you know what I mean?
+
+[35:12] They turn kind of like slimy within the cake of the of the of the mayo goop that's no good right style you hate that right that's no good that's not good that's no good uh would you rather have egg salad or potato salad my mom puts eggs in her potato salad I could see that that sounds good I like that yeah I'm into that egg salad chicken salad speaking of potatoes on the egg what chicken or the egg I say chicken salad seafood salad chicken salad well chicken I like a seafood salad well speaking of potatoes we had in the pasta queen the other day uh Nadine Muno and she was telling us about making gnocchi she said you know a lot of people make a big big big mistake by making gnocchi they always use fresh uh fresh potatoes you gotta use the ones with the eyes the ones that are super dry and ugly been sitting out look like they're gonna die make the best gnocchi really but you know what they will kill you if they're green. Oh really? I don't know they're gonna kill you but they're not good for you. Well what's going on with the green I don't believe it's the green itself but they create more of the poison uh I forget the name I think it's something like it's like solanine or something like this the poison that's in them and so you're not supposed to eat fully greened out potatoes. Okay I get it.
+
+[36:38] Yeah sure. But I'd be scared of it because it looks like mold. Oh yeah they look like they're coming to life which is what they are. Right? So I don't mind the eyes.
+
+[36:47] The eyes. Yeah, take that stuff out. I think it's higher in Solony, but maybe it makes a good gnocchi. Who cares? You're gonna die some point.
+
+[36:53] You know what I mean? So she wants it to have less moisture in it. Exactly. Hmm. It sounds like something that is uh interesting thing for study, and if I was better at gnocchi, as I said on the air, I'm not as good as I wish I was at gnocchi, so I stay away from it.
+
+[37:09] Who's the best gnocchi maker we know well? I don't know. I don't know. I don't want to make no one in my family wants to make it. Yeah?
+
+[37:16] It's too much work. Yeah. I used to make it all the time. It's just hit or miss. Sometimes great, sometimes not.
+
+[37:21] And then I was like, you know what? Life's too short. She swore that the less moisture in in the potato, the better than gnocchi. She also said when she said when making her sugo, her the uh uh like a like a a pan made uh handmade tomato sauce in the pan is to only cook your pasta for four minutes, then take the super al dente, almost unbent pasta and cook it in the sauce for the remainder of the time. That is a school of thought.
+
+[37:47] I never knew that. Yeah, that is a school of thought. I like that. There's also the uh the school of thought that uh I forget who first started pushing it of using almost no water to cook it. And even some people who like pre-soak it, and uh I think a bunch of people have proven that you can make decent pasta that way, and it somehow saves energy, but like who has the time to think about it, right?
+
+[38:09] Stas just fire up the water and make the pasta, no? Yeah. You know, yeah, but uh it's it's easy to say that, but my wife being British, sorry. Um uh and it's just must go on in the generations of her family when they make pasta, the water's cold, and the pasta is put into the cold water and then brought up to boil. Yeah, it works.
+
+[38:34] Does it really? Yeah, it works. Does it that's like oh super uh I mean, like uh who was telling us about the uh the people from um from Florence with these super mushy pasta? Oh, I don't know. I don't know.
+
+[38:46] I mean, like, look, there everyone everywhere is someone will overcook the hell out of something and undercook something, it's all culturally determined. But uh from a technical standpoint, people have shown that you can make a good pasta with any of the things as long as you pay attention. There is there, in other words, there is no perfect. That's the one thing that everyone always gets wrong. There is no one perfect way to do anything that's complicated.
+
+[39:06] And so as long as you have a good procedure, it can start in any one of a number of different ways. It's just for me, you know, I'm never I never know. So I'm always like big pot of boiling water. I have an infinity stove, right? So I can make a pot of water boil faster than you can run and go pee.
+
+[39:24] You know what I'm saying? So it's like, I'm just gonna boil the water, salt the hell out of it, and that way I know what the timing is every time. The problem with starting from cold water is is that the uh cooking rate is going to depend very heavily on the power of the stove and the load that you put into it, because there's a certain amount of time to get a certain amount of water and a certain amount of pasta up to temperature. So it's like it's like it's like bowling or golf. You gotta hit the same pocket all the time.
+
+[39:51] If you're boiling a large pot of water, you have like a a a very large thermal mass compared to the pasta that you're throwing into it, which has almost no thermal mass because it you know it's dry. And so you kind of like even out a lot of the the problems that you can have or the differences that you can have if you're starting from cold with variable amounts of water and variable amounts of pasta. So if you're always the same and you're always on point, or if you're good at paying attention and palate and you can pull things in and out when when it's just right, then I think you can do it any way you want. But from uh just walking in, bulletproof knucklehead way to do it, boiling is easier for me. That makes sense.
+
+[40:30] Copy that. Yeah. Uh all right. Well, we gotta get to worst question salad now that we've talked about the worst salad. I hate it when you go to a place and the and the salad has started to ferment on itself.
+
+[40:42] That's the worst. Right? When you taste it and you're like, oh man. Oh yeah. Now yeah.
+
+[40:48] Oh my God. Oh, it's terrible. Uh I just tried to wrap it in fused vodka with coffee beans. The taste and smell of the result is great, but the liquid ends up with a brown color. Any ideas of how to get a clear, colorless coffee infused vodka?
+
+[41:02] No, you can't do it worth salad. Not possible. It's not possible. This is why you don't have any good clear coffee beverages. There's no good clear anything because coffee is brown, and distillates of coffee don't taste like coffee.
+
+[41:15] Uh they're all like tinctures and infusions, and none of those, none of those things are without color. First of all, remember, uh, yeah, you said so clear coffee can be clear, right? Like drip coffee, cold brew coffee is clear in that you can read a newspaper behind it if anyone remembers what a newspaper is. But the uh it is not colorless. And I have never in my life had a fake coffee that was colorless that was tasted like real coffee.
+
+[41:42] I've distilled it a number of times, and every time I've distilled it, I thought that the product that I made was garbage. And I've also never had anyone else's product that I thought was distilled that tasted like coffee. What I recommend that you do is close your eyes and pretend that it is clear and colorless, right? Because that's the closest I think you're gonna get. Fair?
+
+[42:03] Yeah, I mean, sorry, but that's just the answer. You know. Uh Rich uh Rich writes in a similar kind of question. Uh I just took delivery of a nitropress DS, which is a new uh EC uh like siphon that accepts regular EC cartridges for cream and soda, but also has a charger that sucks concentrated nitrogen out of the air and puts it into your coffee or whatever you want without any single use cartridges, which are expensive and hard to get here. All right, I'm gonna before I'm gonna stop you right here.
+
+[42:32] Uh I'm almost I haven't seen this item that you're talking about, Rich. I am almost certain that this uh concentrated nitrogen that you're speaking of is a very fancy mix of nitrogen, carbon dioxide, and oxygen that we call air. Right? I don't think there's any easy way for them to like actually concentrate cheap way, like reasonably mass market way for them to concentrate the nitrogen. It's possible to have like an oxygen scavenger and get some of the stuff out, but I just highly doubt it.
+
+[43:05] What I think they're doing is putting in compressed air. I think it's basically an air compressor. I now look, I'm happy to be wrong, but that's just my guess. So uh, you know, don't fall into people's marketing hype unless it's accurate. But so what I would say there is that if you're using something that is highly oxidizable, don't think that it's gonna be preserved in the way that something that is under pure nitrogen blanket could be preserved from oxygen.
+
+[43:30] Make sense? All right. So on to your question. Uh this device that I have works great for coffee, but an impromptu test with clarified strawberry cordial and water could only hold gas momentarily before dissipating. So my question is before I do a thousand tests, what's the magical ingredient that makes it work for coffee, but not clear cordial plus water?
+
+[43:50] Is it total dissolved solids, proteins, fat? Question mark. Uh, what piece of info will slash my development time? Even better, is there something I could potentially add to any drink to help it um you know foam up more effectively? Thanks.
+
+[44:02] Yeah. The secret ingredient in coffee is coffee. Right. So as we said in the in the previous uh question, right? Coffee uh has a bunch of stuff in it, right?
+
+[44:13] So especially espresso and other things have a lot of dissolved solids that have foaming ability. So in an espresso foam, it's uh oils and proteins that are are the surface active components to help stabilize the air bubbles, but then you also have polysaccharides that make it thicker, right? So what you want is stuff in it, so probably not clear things, right? Stuff in it, and also uh a certain amount of thickness and viscosity. So you can use uh you know, anything with body in it, so I would add uh I would not if you need it to be clarified, it's a little more difficult, but it's not gonna be clear once you foam it anyway.
+
+[44:54] You can use a methyl cell foam F50, methyl cell L F50 is gonna foam like a weasel, uh gelatins will foam like a weasel, uh pineapple juice, cucumber juice, uh coffee, any milk product. Um you want to add proteins and or whipping agents and then a thickening agent. So think methylcel F50 and Xanthan, uh and you know, but in you know, relatively small amounts, and then because it's too much and it'll just form a hundred percent stable foam. It won't like actually turn into a liquid, it'll just stay like a whipped foam, right? Um and you know, worse comes to worse, you can make a light fluid gel if you really want to out of uh gel in or agar light, and then uh whip air into it, and that'll uh that'll that'll work.
+
+[45:37] Make sense? Work? Good? Smothered? All right.
+
+[45:40] Uh Dori's uh, can Dave talk more about his approach to longer, uh longer low temp sous vide cooks after the for insurance phase. Um I recall a few times he talked about dropping to a lower temperature to let it ride for achieving breakdown of connective tissue, et cetera. What's the specific advantage? Is it lower moisture loss versus continuing at the target core temp, allowing a longer cooking time and if so what advantage uh and more about that. And by the way, uh Dory says uh for any of the French speakers out there, of course John's not here, he's our only French speaker.
+
+[46:10] That's it. The only French speaker that's ever listened to the show, John. So uh I can highly recommend the 2023 book Sou vide 2.0 by Karsten Tongard, 2A's in Tongard. Two G's two A's, that's a sick name. Like you know what I mean?
+
+[46:24] T-A-N-G-G-A-A-R-D. That's hardcore. I like that. Uh available in Danish and French, but not in English yet. I like how you weren't like for the Danish speakers out there because you're like, there's only two of them, right?
+
+[46:36] You're like for the French people. For the French folk. Uh but not in English yet. It gets pre-salting wrong but has nothing on dropping the temp uh but great tables and insights still. Well it's I'm glad that you brought up salting uh Doris because one of the things is uh you know back in the day I always used to recommend not salting um your products beforehand.
+
+[46:58] But most of those um unless okay back back back sorry sorry it's gonna get a little in the weeds. So if I always used to say if you were going to serve something like a ribeye, right, and you were going to uh serve it right away, in other words cook serve, no chill, that you could salt it, you could do your your low temp on it, right, you know, for a couple of hours, never let it chill, and then serve it, and it's gonna be fine. Uh but on all the studies I had done, tests rather, where you had where we chilled it afterwards, it got kind of a hammy texture, right? Got too firm, even though it was cooked at the same temperature. So I advocated not salting.
+
+[47:36] Well, it turns out that uh what happens is is that over time uh at a particular temperature, you actually do get more firming of the uh of the muscle meat. So what what you if you want to salt it beforehand and get the flavor benefits of salting throughout the meat, you can in fact salt the meat beforehand if you drop the temperature once the core reaches uh the core temperature that you want to have it quote unquote done. So what I aim for is I aim from my cook temp to just make it to my cook temp. And then I aim to drop the temperature down, and then you don't get the hammy texture that you would get in a uh in a steak. You also don't get as much the fibery texture you would get if you were to cook something a long time uh at the core temperature.
+
+[48:23] So, you know, a lot of the work that I used to do, I would say, oh yeah, you really shouldn't cook turkey or chicken or really any meat uh that doesn't have a lot of connective tissue. You shouldn't cook it longer than it takes to cook it till it's done because as soon as that happens and there's no connective tissue to break down, it just gets fibery. And then when you're chewing on it, it just tastes like mush in your mouth, mush mouth. And there are people that like that soft mush mouth meat. I happen to not be one of them.
+
+[48:51] So I always try to get people to distinguish in their head between tenderness and mushiness, because to me they're completely different things. And the one is, oh, I can bite it, but it's still a piece of meat. The other one is it turns to a wad of chewing tobacco fiber in my mouth, well, not true tobacco, but like fiber in my mouth and water, and that's no that's no good. So that is prevented or at least lessened by lowering the temperature. So you're not going to get that hammy effect and you're not going to get it in salted meats.
+
+[49:21] You're not going to get that hammy effect and you're not going to get that fibroy effect as fast. And it allows you to break down any connective tissue that's there and just make sure that everything is kind of cooked through to the way uh you want it. Um another way to look at this is uh if you want to see the effect in something that's very cheap is uh do a 62 degree egg, leave one in for an hour, leave one in for two hours, leave one in for three hours, leave one in for four hours. Crack them all out, and then look at the difference in the yolks between the one hour, the two hour, the three hour, and the four hour is sixty-two Celsius, and you can see the slow creep. So after two hours, I forget exactly, I haven't I gotta go back and look at my new charts, but after two hours, uh, you know, a 62 degree egg is a 63 degree egg, and after, you know, three or four hours, it's a 64 degree egg.
+
+[50:14] So it really like you see the slow creep of proteins as they denature at a particular temperature slowly. So the vast majority of your of the cooking, quote unquote, texture-wise, uh, for those proteins is gonna happen relatively quickly, but there's a slow creep, and it makes it always look like it's approaching a higher temperature. So that's why you drop it. Makes sense. All right.
+
+[50:35] Uh Jack, you said you had a question on the uh on the Patreon. What do you got? Yes. Gosh, uh, I have a kettle one espresso martini machine. Oh.
+
+[50:45] Espressy marmars, as he calls it. And he's not getting quite as much foam as he wants. The recipe calls for vodka, coffee, liqueur, grind, uh, simple syrup using Gemerara with gum arabic and cold brew. It pushes with nitrogen. Can I what can I do to get some better foamage?
+
+[51:01] Yeah, I mean, I would say this so the gum wait's gum arabic and what? Uh in the simple demorara with gum arabic. I mean, so gum arabic's like an emulsifier, so uh, you know, it's it doesn't have that much foaming ability on its own, but it you can add quite a bit of it, and so it's adding solids, which is good. Um, but I would add, like I say, a little bit of that, a little bit of foaming agent like uh like a methyl cell, if you don't if you want to go with something neutral, um you could add a little bit of xanthan to it, which will just make it hold the foam better, but stay light, like less than an eighth of a percent. So like, you know, uh like you know, l like small amount, very small.
+
+[51:48] Um, just you know, because you don't want it to get all snotty. You know what I mean? Or like uh I really like you know, Xanthan and those kind of things is like sometimes problematic. People add too much. Uh and you also gotta wait for it to dissolve into your syrup so you can use it properly.
+
+[52:04] Um yeah, I would say one of those one of those two things. It really depends on how foamy you want it. You know what I mean? There's no coffee, just coffee liqueur, espresso would do it. Then you have to make espresso.
+
+[52:15] God forbid people actually put espresso in their espresso martinis. You know what I mean? Yeah. Everyone wants to use cold brew. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[52:25] But um, yeah, I don't know. Helpful? Anyway. Uh all right. Well, oh my god.
+
+[52:31] I got through all the questions. I started it too soon. Now what? Now I got six minutes and fifty one seconds to do what? To do what?
+
+[52:38] To talk about what. Did you see that World Central Kitchen was hit in Gaza? That's awful. I just heard about it this morning, and I know that a number of their people were killed. Like some not small number of their people were killed.
+
+[52:52] It's terrible. I don't really know the details though. Do you there was supposed to be a non like a non-conflict zone and it was an accident. Yeah, sure. Yeah.
+
+[53:04] Yeah. Uh yeah. Maisie knows like some of the people. So it's just a good thing. Say it again.
+
+[53:11] Maisie who has worked with World Central Kitchen for a long time knows some of the people. That's awful. Oh yeah. I mean, you know, you know, people uh just go into trying in and and uh help. It's you know it's always a it's always a nightmare when stuff like that happens.
+
+[53:27] Um yeah. I got nothing constructive to say about that. It's terrible. Um you know thoughts out to thoughts out to that crew. I I didn't want to say anything about it because I I don't really know the details of it yet, but yeah, it's it bears uh bringing bringing out.
+
+[53:43] You know, a lot of those yeah, I mean a lot of uh Maisie knows a lot of those people, a lot of those people, you know, um crew come from the you know, the hospitality industry here on the Eastern Seaboard, so I'm sure, you know I'm sure m a lot of us know are like only a couple of degrees away from those folks, so thoughts out. Um Wow, way to bring it down right at the end styles. Nice. Nice. I think it's worth mentioning worth mentioning.
+
+[54:09] It's totally worth mentioning. Yeah. It's like uh, you know, everyone. Well Quinn also Quinn also popped up in the Discord. Here's uh something curious.
+
+[54:16] Um he says his grandma is great with gnocchi. Uh well, all right. Well, get her recipe, Quinn, and we can talk about it, talk about it the next time. Yeah. Um, and back to gnocchi.
+
+[54:28] That's like the classic, like uh, that's uh like the ma the the Mario Batali, and here's some cinnamon buns. Yeah. So it's like uh it's like I don't know, for those of you that don't remember what happened, like uh when when Maro Batali got me too, he was like, Oh yeah, sorry I did all that stuff. Uh here's some cinnamon buns to think about. And so, like, you know, the cinnamon bun apology, non-apology became like the ultimate kind of F you.
+
+[54:58] So whenever that's terrible. Whenever we do anything wrong, Nastasi and I are always like, here's some cinnamon buns, right? But you know, eventually people aren't gonna get it anymore. You know what I'm saying? Like uh, you know, like I think the memory for that kind of thing is quite short.
+
+[55:16] Wouldn't you say, Stas? Yeah. Shorter, shorter than shorter than you think. Oh, speaking of cinnamon buns, though. Do any of you guys know any Samoans and or like uh I guess speak to Liam.
+
+[55:27] Lianne Wong, you know, from the FCI is in town shooting something for Bravo, which I don't even know if she's allowed to talk about, but there I said it anyway. But um, you know, she you know, her restaurant in in Hawaii was burnt during the uh during the catastrophic uh fires. Um but there's these I just learned about these Samoan buns that now I really want to try. You ready for this? Uh uh Pani Popo, okay?
+
+[55:54] I've never had them before, and I would like to have them actually produced by somebody who knows what they're talking about. But the basic theory of operation is you make a bun, right? And so uh the only person who's actually Samoan whose recipe I saw uh doesn't use milk in the buns, but most of the Hawaiian versions and other versions have like a almost like a dinner roll recipe. So but these the the rolls do have in them, they're yeased, and they have sugar and you know, a small amount of sugar and butter, but not an incredibly rich dough. So but you make a fairly light bun and then you put them into the pan, and here's what you do.
+
+[56:35] Before you bake it, right? So you let it rise up, you let a little air around them as they're rising. You put a sweetened coconut cream mixture into the pan while it bakes, and it forms like a crust over the top and then a goop around them. And so it's like almost when you think of cinnamon bun. So it's like this apparently like sweetish, not sweetish, sweet-ish, like coconut goop, crackling top, and now I'm dying to have a traditional one and then see like where to take it from there.
+
+[57:09] I'm almost hesitant to just make it on my own the way that I would think about making it because that's almost invariably wrong, right? So I want to see whether we know anyone that does anyone I wonder make one in the in New York that's passable? Is there any like one who's like the Panny Popo house of New York, like Pantypopo.com? Panny Popo, Panny Popo Life, Panny Popa Village. Who knows?
+
+[57:28] You guys ever have one of these things? No. I would love to. You have any Samoan restaurants in LA? I'm sure they're somewhere.
+
+[57:35] We'll go. Or like a Hawaiian, because apparently, like I say, like it's also become, you know, uh very popular in Hawaii. So I'm sure we can get it here there. If if any of you guys have some Panny Pobo skills, you know, let me know. Uh next week, uh stay tuned for uh two episodes one day, uh, with Sola El Oayaley coming in talking about her book and Kevin Young coming in talking about Noma.
+
+[57:58] Uh and yeah, thanks so much. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues, coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, New York City, Rockefeller Center, New Stance Studios, joined as usual with Joe Hazen. How you doing? I'm doing well, man. Great to see you.
+
+[0:22] Good to see you. Yeah, we do not have John. He had to unfortunately go to a funeral in Belgium, but at least he got to go to Belgium, which is a fantastic place. He's gonna bring us back some fancy mustard maybe for next week when he comes back. We also don't have Quinn, I don't think.
+
+[0:38] He's still sick. We have Quinn. We have Quinn from the upper upper left corner. Great, always great to hear from you. Miss you while you've been sick.
+
+[0:49] Always good to have Quinn on the air. And then moving down the left-hand coast, we got uh Nastasia the Hammer Lopez in LA. How you doing? Good, thank you. Good, good.
+
+[1:00] And uh Jackie Molecules also in uh Los Angeles. I feel like if I could move to Los Angeles, I'm not saying I would move to Los Angeles, but I'm saying if it were possible. I mean, I hate the sun, but I do like the plants you guys have. You know what I'm saying? Wait, you should announce you're gonna be here next week.
+
+[1:18] We're doing uh what did it what are the kids call it? You told me yesterday. Post up. We're posting up at Thunderbolt LA. Yeah, right.
+
+[1:25] Yeah. So it's like, yeah, we so for those uh other who like Patreon folks or people to listen, I have to go to uh we'll talk, we'll talk about it later. I'm going to uh film something with the Mamafuku Empire next week, and then uh which we can talk about and we can sing the Star Wars theme and all that. Uh but uh today in the studio, I am super pumped. We uh we're gonna have her on earlier and uh we had to cancel uh for sickness reasons.
+
+[1:51] Sola L. Whaley is here, author of Start Here, Instructions for Becoming a Better Cook, uh Internet Cooking Superstar, HBO Max, but beep book like that. Uh right of well, welcome. Thanks for having me. I like my arms.
+
+[1:59] Yeah. Do you know that? Like apparently my wife tells me that. So like I was doing like kind of weird robot arms there, and um, when we were visiting uh schools for my younger son Dax, I walked outside trying to find my wife, and I did the robot arms using my like hands to look for her as though my hands have eyeballs, and she was like, You look like a freaking nut. What are you doing?
+
+[2:27] I'm like, I don't know. I can't, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know what my body does. You know what I mean? You can't look like a nut here.
+
+[2:33] That's the great thing about New York. Do you know, way back in the day before 9-11, you could literally walk around New York with a so like a sword, and people would just people would just not look at you. They would just actively not look at you. Uh-huh. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[2:47] Good way to become invisible. Yeah. Carry a sword. Carry a sword and nobody looks at you. You know what I mean?
+
+[2:52] We used to literally go to the Highline and set off giant pyrotechnics, and no one would come bother you. New York was an entirely different place back in the day. Uh and not better necessarily, different. Uh-huh. You know what I mean?
+
+[3:11] Like, we definitely had our problems too. But anyway, welcome to the show. Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah. So uh, and wait, I wait.
+
+[3:17] So we have someone also behind us. And I know she doesn't have a mic, but sir, we have Serena here. Selena. Selena, Selena, I just want to have you acknowledge that you're here because I hate not acknowledging people that are in the studio. You can shout and maybe they could hear you on the Yeah.
+
+[3:33] So, you know, listen. She's dying right now. She's shrinking. If we, you know, listen, if if you're in the studio, you have an opinion. Uh-huh.
+
+[3:42] That's my feeling. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[3:45] Or if you're on the teleophone, uh, as uh Nastasia Quinn and oh, and I was gonna say, call in your questions uh for Sola 2, 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507 if you're a Patreon member, but apparently someone has already called in. So call her, you're on the air. Hey Dave, this is Wes Hendrickson living in Washington State. How you doing?
+
+[4:07] I doing great. Um we had some sunny weather, and I was making the hatchback the other day, which was delicious, and it got me thinking about grapefruit. And I wanted to try making the Saratoga Paloma, and I can't get out to New York to get any of that water. And I was just wondering, anything I can do to get somewhat close to that. No.
+
+[4:26] No, I'm just okay. I'm just messing with you. Uh so uh for those of you that don't know, hatchback is uh it's like uh it's grapefruit and uh tequila and compari and I forget what else. It was uh Karen Jarman's uh first drink on the menu at Booker and Dax back in 2012. Carbonated.
+
+[4:45] Great drink. Sold a lot of those suckers. Yeah, um too. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Clary lime.
+
+[4:50] I gotta love clearly lime. Uh and the Saratoga Paloma is just uh this crazy uh crazy water from Saratoga, Hathorne Springs number three, that is like the saltiest water. It's like it's like uh a third of the way to ocean salty, but not but even funkier, like weird. When it comes out of the ground, it's carbonated, but also kind of um got a little bit of uh sulfur funk. So you gotta like flash it off, and then you you you add a little bit of that because too much makes you kind of go to the bathroom because it's you know, it's like Epsom salsa or like fossil soda for those of you that have ever had to uh have a colonoscopy.
+
+[5:24] So you don't put that much of it in there. You put a little bit in, but it's got a very, uh, very, very strong flavor. You know what? I bet you if you put not just black I have black salt. Yeah, no, not so they see that that sulfur is gonna be too much sulf sulfur.
+
+[5:40] Like it's not like a panapuri situation. Did you you had the Saratoga Paloma back in the day, right? Or no? I've never had it. Oh.
+
+[5:48] Well, so then I could tell you anything, and you would think it's the same drink. Yes, no, absolutely. You could just lie to me. Yeah, I can just lie, but maybe I will. Uh I was gonna say, uh, maybe um my memory is is that it's about a third as salty as the ocean, but it's got a lot of f stuff in it that for instance it turns red when it decarbonates because there's a lot of iron in it.
+
+[6:06] So there's not so much iron that tastes like sucking on a nail the way that like uh big a keen, you know, the uh not big, the uh whatever the ferroquina, which is I I don't like it. I don't like I don't like irony tasting things. Anyway, maybe some nigari. Use some nigari, like a little bit of nigari uh along with regular salt, because that's gonna add a lot of those other weird minerals. And you know, it's like it's stronger than Vishicatalon by a lot.
+
+[6:31] You could just maybe use more Vichy Catalan, but I don't know. Anyway, I uh wish I could be more helpful. What you need to do is go to Saratoga. Is it is it agar grapefruit? It's a centrifuge grapefruit.
+
+[6:41] So we we always use center fruge grapefruit, uh with agar grapefruit. Uh if I don't remember whether I put simple in it, but you scale the simple back and up the grapefruit. Okay. Yeah. All right.
+
+[6:51] Good luck with this. Let us know. Let us know. But of course it would be easier if you would have the original. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[6:58] Anyway. It would be. Yeah. I don't know. I'll I guess it'll either taste good or not, and I won't know if it's legit.
+
+[7:03] That's right. All right. It's like it's it's like maybe I want to find a Samoan restaurant or a Samoan person who can make me these coconut rolls so I know whether they're good before I make them on my own. The poggy po poggy poepo. But I'm gonna make them the way that I want them, which isn't right.
+
+[7:20] I want it, I mean, it's not wrong, but it's also I want to see what it's supposed to taste like anyway. You're gonna have to go there. Oh man, I'm never gonna go there. My whole life I'm never gonna go there. You know, I've never been to Hawaii and my wife was born in Hawaii.
+
+[7:32] You have even more reason to go there. I I know more than the average person. Yeah, yeah, I know. And she's never been back. She's a military kid.
+
+[7:39] It's time to go. I know. But it's so far. Uh, you know, you're gonna go to California. Yes.
+
+[7:46] So tack it on. You're like almost there. Yeah. You're like 90% of the way there. I would never have it.
+
+[7:52] Yeah, that's uh that's Nastasia saying that would never have. Oh, so now that we're now that we're here, we can so yes, uh Nastasia. So we're we're like this is the portion of the show where we uh spend a little time shooting the breeze over things we have cooked in the last week, or in this case two, because we didn't that we weren't here last week. Uh uh, did you have anything interesting or things we're gonna do? Like we're gonna go, I'm gonna go to LA.
+
+[8:11] Nastasia and I are gonna shoot some stuff uh with uh, you know, uh with uh maybe with Dave Chang, maybe not, but at the Momafuku stuff, major domo. And uh that that's all is that all blown over now? All the chili crunchness, the crunch? Is the crunch crunched out or not? Like uh I don't know.
+
+[8:28] Yeah, you're not are you following the I am following the crunch story, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's so funny. It's like everything ping-pongs back and forth, but like I can imagine it happening. Like having been behind the scenes at you know, Momafuku before some lawyer somewhere was like, you know what? Ain't nobody trademarked the word crunch with the word chili attached to it.
+
+[8:48] It just hasn't been trademarked. I see an opportunity. Let me trademark it. Because they trademark anything and everything, like any lawyer. They get they get anxious, but then everyone there has a killer instinct.
+
+[8:58] So when someone says, Hey, maybe you shouldn't have done that, their first instinct is to be like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I could do what I want. You know what I'm saying? Uh-huh. But then it takes a while for them to back down.
+
+[9:07] You know what I'm saying? Because I feel like they're gonna make more money in the long run just being like, my bad, chili crunch is for anybody. You know what I mean? That's more long-term money. You know what I mean?
+
+[9:16] Uh-huh. Anyway, that's my feeling. I mean, I don't know. We'll see what happens. Yeah.
+
+[9:21] I mean, look, of all the things, you really think that that the word crunch is gonna bring down David Jane? No. No. That's not gonna happen. You never know.
+
+[9:32] I guess that's true. You never know. We'll just we're just here to watch the show. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[9:38] Wait, so you're you say you're you so you you you're just holding out, you're holding out judgment. You're withholding judgment based on not knowing, or based on you have a judgment but you don't want to say it. The second one. I love it. I love it.
+
+[9:54] You know what? Prudent. Mm-hmm. Prudent. That's why Selena's here.
+
+[9:58] Yeah. To keep you prudent. All right. All right. Uh so did you have anything interesting over the past week that you've been uh making or doing uh different from the normal all the things that you do or well I'm kind of on like a chicken cutlet journey.
+
+[10:13] I don't like chicken breast. You know why? Why? Because they're not as good. They're not as good.
+
+[10:19] No, but like we we always get a whole chicken and then my husband eats the breast and I eat everything good. This is like the opposite of my my wife. My wife prefers, she doesn't prefer white meat like but she like for chicken salad, she prefers for health. No, no, hell no. Okay.
+
+[10:35] I think that's the main reason why people eat chicken breast. I don't know. For chicken salad, she likes the white. Where are you on on the other end of the line, where you guys sit for like a for for white meat, dark meat, and then also separately for chicken salad. Because I had to make chicken salad last week.
+
+[10:49] Uh-huh. What what do you guys meat guy? Dark meat guy? Stas? I'm dark meat.
+
+[10:54] Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. Dark meat, yeah. Quinn.
+
+[10:57] I mean, I would say I I like the breast for cutlets. Because it really gets really thin and you know, there's no variation in texture. So you can get like a nice thin, consistent cutlet. Also, in terms of like using it up and like grinding it with duck fat and chicken hurt to make a gr a ground. That's very quin.
+
+[11:25] That's very quin. Alright, so wait with these with these in mind, so talk about what your cutlet experiments with apparently non or were you using breast meat, or were you is this a use for the breast meat, in other words, or were you doing thigh cutlets? I'm trying to see if there's a world where I could like chicken breast. Oh yeah, yeah. Without like I I like it if it's uh dry brine.
+
+[11:46] I hate we're gonna get into this later. You hate dry brine? I hate the word. It's salting. Yeah, I know.
+
+[11:51] It's so stupid. But it's the time. But people have salted for a long time. Yeah, it's just long, long, long time. Explain to people that they have to wait.
+
+[12:03] Salt. Wait. It's very hard to get people to salt it. No, well, okay. So as a recipe developer, it's really, really, really tough to tell someone you gotta wait twenty-four hours.
+
+[12:15] If they get so mad, they'll move on to the next recipe. No, it's the cell. It's the marketing. It's the chili crunch. I hate it so much.
+
+[12:25] I hate it so much. You know what I mean? Yeah, I know I get it, but you gotta just it's salting. You need to make people feel like it's a lot of it. Wet salting?
+
+[12:36] Yeah. That sounds disgusting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[12:39] Wet salt. Yay, baby. Wet salt. I don't want to go to that party. The wet salt party.
+
+[12:46] It's just it's you gotta sell it. You gotta convince people that there is a point to this. So sometimes you need to add a like a little term that maybe doesn't need to be there, but it makes you feel sophisticated. I dry brind this turkey. It just makes me it just.
+
+[13:00] I understand. I understand. Yeah. But I want people to do it. You want people to salt?
+
+[13:06] I want people to salt for an extended period of time. Uh-huh. Give it long and long enough time that you know it dissolves, reabsorbs, becomes dry. Uh-huh. Yeah.
+
+[13:15] Yeah. Okay. Okay. We have a question on this. Uh, I think uh later.
+
+[13:20] Wait, so so was there a world? Yes. Wait, if you salt the hell out of a chicken breast and then fry it real quick, it does taste good. It does taste good. I was trying to do it without the the salt because people want a same day.
+
+[13:31] Well, thinner spontaneous recipe. Breaded and fried is what I tried francese, picata, and like classic panko. Yeah. Picada's one of the few words that where it tastes good and sounds cool. Picado's good.
+
+[13:44] Frances is not. No. I don't want the egg. No. So here's what I do.
+
+[13:49] See what you think. Have you tested this one? Uh when I so like when I take a breast, I'm gonna do this. You know, I put it down, triangle shape, right? I take the knife and I cut flap over, cut flap over.
+
+[14:01] So now it's like a bigger triangle. Uh-huh. Then I salt it before I pound it, and I pound the salt into it. Oh, I haven't tried that. I've been salting after.
+
+[14:11] Yeah. I salt it and then it also like it breaks up the fiber a little bit. You can see it like oh my god, what are you doing? Plastic wrap over. Do you plastic wrap over yours?
+
+[14:20] Uh-huh. Yeah, because it's real messy. Yeah. You frying pan or do you have a mallet? Uh or something else.
+
+[14:27] What do I rolling pin? Oh, rolling pin. Mean, you're mean. Is that mean? Yeah.
+
+[14:32] Cause it's not because it's like, cause you think about it. You hit somebody and it's got a smaller point of contact. It's many, many small hits. Yeah. Really break down that chicken.
+
+[14:44] You know, that's how life gets at you. Lots of little You're like, uh, you're like couponing this thing. I like that. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[14:51] Anyway, try see what see whether you see a different salting beforehand. Yeah, I'm gonna try that. I also put a little sugar in. Because I'm always uh like uh I don't know, for some reason for years and years we were two one on stuff, you know, for like you know, the the hand mixture was like two salt, one sugar to for like fish and whatnot. So I just got in a habit also with chicken, not with beef, pork, chicken, fish.
+
+[15:13] So do you in your salt cellar, do you have it already mixed with salt like with sugar? No, I should, but I I don't. I used to, but like the I can't I can't keep uh I can't keep things that you can touch anymore because sorry to he doesn't listen, so it's fine, blow up his but booker, my older son will just like go into it with fish hands. And so like, you know, things get clumpy, and he'll also like he'll he'll like grab into the sugar bowl, like and then like lift it with the sugar, like over my shelf, over my coffee machine, over everything, over the floor, and then over where he has like how old is he? Twenty-two.
+
+[15:50] Twenty-two. Twenty-two. No, twenty-two. So uh anyway, so salt and sugar in my house are in diner and diner pours. You know, like the R the R2D2 diner pour?
+
+[16:03] Yeah. Which sucks. They suck to cook out of. Because you what you want to do is go. Yeah.
+
+[16:11] I'm interested to see how I have to change my life because our kid's seven months. It all depends on the kid. Can't do anything yet. Depends on the kid. Right now she just hangs out in a cage.
+
+[16:20] Yeah, yeah. Awesome. That's the best time. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[16:24] Like it all depends on the kid. Yeah, I'll see. Yeah. That's the that's the that's the joy of being a parent. You find out that uh kids are individuals.
+
+[16:31] 22, though. He's not even in your your house anymore. Oh, yeah, he is. Oh, okay. I was like, go back to the salt cellar.
+
+[16:36] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Long story. Uh anyway.
+
+[16:40] So uh so that was what you're doing? Chickens? Jesus, just chickens trying to like chicken breast. What I don't like is paying extra for chicken breast. Any any MSG in your chicken salt uh situation?
+
+[16:56] Sometimes, yeah. You use MSG in the book. He really helps the breast. Yeah, it just makes it taste meatier. So Quinn's basically saying that it doesn't have its own flavor and requires MSG.
+
+[17:09] I'm just messing with you, Quinn. I'm just messing with you. Anything to make it taste better is fine. You know what I'm saying? But uh, yeah.
+
+[17:15] Yeah. Uh all right. So uh what about you, Quinn? You always have something you like to cook. Uh let's see.
+
+[17:24] The other week we did do a smoked prime rib. Oh my god, it turns out pretty good. Now, do you want smoke? Does it turn out that you want smoke on your prime rib? Yeah, I mean, you know, it's definitely, especially the leftovers, they're very came.
+
+[17:42] But um, I think we got the you know the ratio of like how fast you cooked in terms of getting just like you know, a subtle smoke on the beef. And it was it was good. All right. Sounds good. What about you guys, California?
+
+[17:59] Anything good? I uh I went to this new Persian place um here in Silver Lake on Sunset called Azizam. I think that's how to pronounce it. And they served this meatball. It's like a braised beef and rice meatball stuffed with I think stone fruit, and it was the size of a softball.
+
+[18:19] I've never seen a larger meatball in my life. Uh it was very good. So it wasn't like what the hell so big? It wasn't like like you weren't like, what the what the hell's happening here? Meatball so big.
+
+[18:32] I was when they served it, you know. They could too. They're like, Oh, it's it's a big portion. And I was like, Okay, cool. They shrugged their shoulders.
+
+[18:39] I always assume what someone's gonna do it, they're like, they're like, so big po it's a big portion. Speak. You know what I mean? Like no, no shrug. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[18:48] Well, we we we ran into the the LA Times, um, what's his name? Bill from the LA Times, the food critic, and he was like, Oh, I really recommend the meatball. It's it and he also said it's big, and I was like, Okay. So it's not lying. I was still surprised.
+
+[19:01] Still surprised when it when it got to the table. Like I said, literally the size of a softball. Is is that as the dish is normally made, or are they like, this is America, meatballs gotta be big? Uh that's a good question. And I don't know.
+
+[19:14] Someone'll have to tell me that. It's the the name of the dish was the kafta tabrizi. I don't know if I'm saying that right, but I don't know either. Uh so I have a similar story from a couple of weeks ago. I went to our storage unit, and uh afterwards, uh, you know, we went to this uh Mexican place in Stanford.
+
+[19:32] Do you know that Stanford has the worst architecture in the entire country? Stanford, Connecticut. Yeah. I don't know this. It's true.
+
+[19:38] Uh do you ever drive up by 95? I haven't driven in years. Oh. Well, if someone ever drives uh you or you take the train up when you're going through Stanford, which is where Nastasia is when she's here, it's uh it's like a museum for bad architecture. Do they like wear this title with pride?
+
+[19:53] They should. Yeah, yeah. So, like uh um that's where Purdue Pharma like started that that that whole thing in what we like to call the upside down murder castle, which is like every architectural thing gone wrong. Nastasia lives in a nicer Stanford. Nastasia, back me up on this.
+
+[20:11] The buildings in Stanford are a nightmare. She's not gonna back me up, she's not gonna back this up. Yeah, yeah. Uh so but I we went to this restaurant and it was uh it was a Mexican restaurant, you know, um style, you know, like fat fast food. But they were doing some sort of stuff.
+
+[20:29] Why would you get why would you get Mexican in Connecticut? Okay, because I had just worked somebody like a dog for eight hours and they were dying of hunger and they needed to pee. He looked up on the phone. We asked a guy at the storage place, and he said some other place, and the person I was with looked up on their phone and said, I want to go here. And so I say, wherever you want, because you've just helped me, right?
+
+[20:53] Yeah. So anyway, so we go there and they had these like Mexican Arantini, right? These like stuffed fried rice balls, but they were the size of your head. They were the biggest things I've ever seen in my life. What's inside?
+
+[21:10] I I didn't, I didn't dare to order one. I did I I I should have just ordered one and thrown the money away. Like ordered it, and but like who wants a rice ball that big? I mean, the the the ratio of crunch to to mush is just wrong. Yeah, unless it was like a very thin, unless they did it like Nastasia's mom's tamale style, which is like thin masa, a lot of filling, but then it's a lot of filling.
+
+[21:34] You know what I mean? I feel like I feel like a rice ball can be anywhere from like golf to like like lacrosse ball. Anything bigger than lacrosse ball, I think is kind of a lot. I really like when they're when they're just like poppable. You like a popable rice ball?
+
+[21:52] Like a like a little ping pong ball. Yeah. Because it's just so much crunch. Yeah. And like a little bit of cheese in the middle or something.
+
+[21:59] Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like a rice ball.
+
+[22:02] I do. I first had them on my honeymoon. Maybe that's why. Where was your honeymoon? Italy.
+
+[22:07] Well, we we went to Rome and like we just went to a crap hole. This is in 90s, like 95. So back when you could still go to Italy and be like, oh my God. You know what I mean? Uh-huh.
+
+[22:15] Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So yeah, we were in Rome and we were like, I hear they have rice balls. And we got one.
+
+[22:21] We're like, yeah, good. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I feel like when you have something somewhere else in like a romantic moment, it's just like attached to you. Yeah.
+
+[22:31] This nostalgia. Well, speaking of cutlets, another thing we had there, of course, was veal, but we rarely make it with veal because who's got the cash? Uh, is uh salt and boca. Uh huh. I had that in in the I was gonna try that.
+
+[22:43] You should, you know why? Delicious. Yeah. Real good. Can you make it with chicken?
+
+[22:48] Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
+
+[22:51] There are a lot of things you can pull trify, Italian stuff you can polterify. You ever do the turkey asabuco? Turkey asavuco, no. Good. With like the leg?
+
+[23:00] Yeah. Oh, that's a good idea. Pull tendon. Christmas or Thanksgiving? Yeah, although then I would get the veal because my mom would, I would be with my mom and she would look at me cross-eyed if I did that.
+
+[23:10] You know what I mean? You know, I always have to come up with a new way to do turkey every year, no matter what. So maybe it'll be asubuku easy. Listen, uh, the trick always for me is uh it's a little messier than real asebuco because their turkey legs, you know what I mean? Uh you have to pull the tendons after.
+
+[23:26] You know what I mean? Unless like someday somebody will pull the tendons before, but it's never happened to me. So my thing this week was it's Daz earmuffs because I know it's gonna bother you. I made another pie uh over the last week. So a listener wrote in uh uh and said, So I do this thing where I adjust fruit juice to have the same acidity as lemon or lime, and I do it for cocktails, right?
+
+[23:51] Acid adjusting. And so this person was like, Can you acid adjust juice to make a key lime pie? Such a good idea. I know. Yeah, it was the it's the best idea I've heard, like in years.
+
+[24:01] So, like, uh, so I've just did been doing it constantly. Okay, right, constantly. And uh Quinn made a calculator on on our Patreon site that will like automatically calculate because key limes are a little more acidic than regular limes, which is why when you make it with regular lime juice, it's too sweet. Because regular limes are about six percent acidity, more or less, give or take, and key limes are like seven, right? So it's like, you know, more anyway.
+
+[24:26] So uh I did a uh pineapple chiffon, which you know, if we have time later, we can talk about this pineapple recipe that I was showing you before. So I was doing a pineapple chiffon, but uh instead of leaving it just sweet, I acid adjusted it up to lime, so it was like a real tart pineapple chiffon. Do you do that with just citric acid? No. I use a mixture of citric malic and succinic to have it really hit.
+
+[24:52] You could just do it with citric, but it wouldn't be it wouldn't be as limey. It would just, it would taste less like it would taste less like lime. What was the third acid? Sixinic. I don't know what that is.
+
+[25:03] I don't know what that is. It's a tiny so it's it's uh it's a it's an acid that on its own tastes like bad. Like uh like uh what I always say my description is like uh you bit your tongue after you were eating an oyster shell, or like you cut your tongue on an oyster shell, so kind of mineral and bloody. You know what I mean? But a tiny bit of it.
+
+[25:23] We're talking like a tiny, tiny bit, like 0.04%, like tiny. Uh we I I make an 8% solution and then just you know add like a half milliliter to every hundred mils of juice. And but that little bit gives it that kind of back of the throat peely lime hit. Oh. Okay.
+
+[25:41] And it lasts forever. You buy a container, a little packet of it at at uh what's it called, Modern's Pantry, and you use so little of it that it lasts forever. Speaking of Modern's Pantry, I heard you got a spinzall. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I did.
+
+[25:53] Really excited to use it. Don't know when that's gonna happen. Don't know where, don't know when. But I think the crazy thing is we ordered it before I was even pregnant. We waited longer for the spinzall than the baby.
+
+[26:06] Okay, well, get this. Nastasia has always felt there's some sort of baby food juju with it, but we've never figured it out, right, S. Yeah. Yeah. We just don't know what it is.
+
+[26:17] Maybe you should use it for that. I don't know. Do you know that I'll tell you a secret about the spinzall? It's not a secret. I'll tell anyone that that will listen.
+
+[26:24] But uh there, so my mom's a cardiologist, just recently retired, pediatric cardiologist. And they had a patient where the baby couldn't have uh fat for the first several months of its life, couldn't have fat. Um I forget why, I forget what the condition is. But it turns out that a spinzall can spin the fat out of human breast milk so that the mother can still do breast, not technically breastfeeding, but can you know all the benefits of breastfeeding other than the social ones, um with the spinzall, and then we gave it to another person. So now we're trying to figure out how to push this into the hospital market.
+
+[27:00] It's like every every OBGYN you owner should have one so that in case you have a baby, all of a sudden you could you know what I mean? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. Because you could just hand it off to a person and let them take it home for the couple of months they need it and then hand it back to the hospital. You know what I mean?
+
+[27:15] I feel like that would never work. What do you mean? There's so much like bureaucracy. Uh uh just getting her social security number was a nightmare. I don't think they could handle a spinzall.
+
+[27:27] Oh, the hospital does that for you? It's like buying a car now, they give you the social security number in the hospital. They're supposed to. They're supposed to set it up for you, and you're supposed to call them and get it back, and then you can set up your insurance. That really is like getting a car.
+
+[27:39] I can't imagine if they had to do like a spinzall program. Management. Well, it's only it's very rare. It's only when they it's it's it's it's when there's a lot of intervention. So usually you're you have a pretty on-point person at that at that point.
+
+[27:50] What you should do is set it up with the insurance company to get them to cover it. Like they do with the breast pumps. Oh, they they cover breast pumps now? Yeah. Really?
+
+[27:58] Uh huh. Wow. One, I believe. Well, how many do you need? Yeah, how many are are those pumps still as bad as they used to be?
+
+[28:06] I mean, I don't know what they were like, but I know I I hated it. They make a crazy noise. Aside from anything else, like they're like make create used to make crazy noises. Well, and they just make you feel terrible. So I was I I stopped at six months and I'm like a person again.
+
+[28:19] It's really exciting. Yeah. I'm back. Yeah. But the first thing we wanted to make in the spin saw was there was like a banana drink you had at the front.
+
+[28:27] That was our favorite. Oh, nice. Oh, beautiful. So we're gonna clarify banana. Bananas Dino, that's the way to do it.
+
+[28:33] That's what it was called. Yeah. I I had a lot of this. Nice. Well appreciate it.
+
+[28:37] Well, you know, maybe soon. I don't know if we're gonna put that up. We should put that on the menu again. So like Fabulous and Jeremiah from Contra, who are we're gonna do a bar program with them. Uh I'm like, let me put some oldies but goodies on.
+
+[28:51] And Jeremiah's like, I don't know, maybe it should be all new. I'm like, I don't think it has to all be new. Do a throwback menu. Yeah. I mean, just sometimes special pop-up.
+
+[28:59] Yeah, yeah. People would be excited about that. You know what a nightmare pop is. They are nightmares. Yeah, they are.
+
+[29:04] But they're fun. I mean I feel like it's always worth it. Okay. Maybe not a day, do like a week. Because a day is stupid.
+
+[29:14] Yeah. I hate like single day pop-ups. Absolute nightmare. You set up an entire restaurant for a day. Yeah.
+
+[29:21] But who makes money in a pop-up? Nobody does. It's just fun marketing, branding. For the record, eyes rolled when uh she said fun. Uh yeah.
+
+[29:34] All right. All right. So let me get to some questions for you before we run out of time. Uh so this is a uh this is a chicken clean cleaning question. Okay.
+
+[29:43] Are you are you interested in chicken cleaning? Yeah, theories on it. I don't know. Now I'm worried. Dave Kleinman.
+
+[29:48] Uh so I have an issue uh with not cleaning chicken, i.e., in other words, doesn't like it when people don't clean chicken. Like wash it. Correct. Uh-huh. Yeah.
+
+[29:56] And this is McGee's new thing is that uh there's a whole thing. Do you familiar with the whole thing? This is like like the chili crunch thing. I don't know the whole thing. So there was backlash against washing chicken put out by the USDA because they put like images of like cartoons of like like spatter of like salmonella fill spatter getting all over the kitchen.
+
+[30:14] But then further research shows that you know that's not the case. And so, you know, McGee is a wash if you want to kind of a guy. Okay. I recently got internet backlash for telling people not to wash their chicken. Well, so you are part, you are like uh a party to the to the to the bull crap.
+
+[30:31] To the no don't wash? To the either way. Either way, if someone like that's why like I just shut up about it. Uh-huh. Yeah.
+
+[30:37] I just shut up. I still don't want to deal with it. The one thing, okay. Even if you're not spreading salmonella, it does make it harder to see her. Well, it depends on how long you're gonna wait.
+
+[30:45] Huh? After you salt it. Yeah, yeah. Am I right? The dry the dry brighting.
+
+[30:52] Okay. So I really have an issue with not washing chicken, which often comes with factory odors, off smells, who knows else what's growing on it. By the way, a lot of factory odors are from bags, and just opening the bags will make the odor go away. Like on meat, that sulfur smell flashes off. That's just my three cents.
+
+[31:08] I use a special outside sink just to wash raw stuff. Well, isn't that nice, Dave? Wouldn't that be nice to have an outdoors? Um anyway, uh, and the entire area gets sanitized after I soak my raw meats. Uh I've done the weighing test, and honestly, the meats, fish, and poultry I've soaked haven't gained any significant weight during the soaking.
+
+[31:28] Furthermore, if they did so, they lose it again if I hang them to dry in the fridge for a few days with Koji spices or even nothing on them. So just asking, really? Discuss further. So apparently they were maybe maybe Dave was part of this whole McGilla with you and the washing not washing. Yeah, a lot of people yelled at me.
+
+[31:44] And I and I did some more research and I I don't care anymore. There you go. I don't care. Do whatever you want. Okay.
+
+[31:50] Yes. But it also made me realize that I don't get the kind of chicken most people get. Because I'm usually going to a butcher. So it's not often put in a bag. Right.
+
+[31:58] So I don't have the same off smell. And I know that 90% of people don't get chicken like that. They do not. So they're getting in a puffy thing with that little absorbent McGill underneath. Yeah.
+
+[32:08] So my bad. I'm sorry to the world. I made everybody mad. Yeah. So I had a butcher, and his assistant's name was Ray.
+
+[32:18] And uh Michael was his name. And I was just made you made me think about buying chicken from a butcher because I haven't in so many years. I haven't had a butcher in like my own butcher. I haven't had my own butcher in like 12 years. And you could bring this back into your life.
+
+[32:29] This is in New York. But there's always a butcher nearby. I know, but like, I don't know. I just felt I didn't find a new one when I moved because like, you know, I knew him, I knew his family, like we bought each other, like I bought him a wedding gift. You know what I mean?
+
+[32:41] It's like, yeah. And uh and Ray could rip the skin off of a chicken leg in under two seconds using his apron. And he would just sit there going boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, whole box of chicken. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
+
+[32:58] I need a butcher again. You need a new Ray. Where do you live? I live in the East Village. Okay.
+
+[33:02] There's a lot of. But it's like, didn't you say in the book you couldn't get diamond where you are? Diamond Crystal Kosher? Yeah. Not until recently.
+
+[33:09] Now Fresh Direct has it. You read the book? Yes, but you couldn't. Nobody reads the book before. Hey man.
+
+[33:16] But like you like you can't go to like a key foods or something? They don't have the diamond. Uh no, no. It's you, it's there has been in the last like year or two, but it's usually been Morton. Yeah, I hate it.
+
+[33:27] But now there's diamond at like the bodega. Yeah, I hate Morton like a lot. Yeah, I do too. Yeah. But also, people yell at me for that.
+
+[33:35] So I don't care. No, no, listen, look, listen. No, but that that's not really a matter of opinion. Morton's just not as good. You okay.
+
+[33:42] Because it's like it tastes the same, but it it does doesn't hold as well. It's harder to use. Yeah. And and and like it slows you down. Because I want to be able to take a fistful of salt and season like a whole tray of stuff.
+
+[33:56] Yeah. And you can't. You need to be able to you need to be able to do it, and you can't judge. You're gonna you're you're either gonna go over or under with Morton's. It's really hard to gauge how much salt you're putting on something when you're dry brining.
+
+[34:10] You're a killer. I'm gonna try and use it as many times as possible. You're a killer. Yeah. But you know what I'm saying?
+
+[34:15] Yeah, yeah. There's just not as good of a product. I'm just getting sick of getting yelled at on the internet. But why would anyone yell at you about Morton's? Because it just people yell at me about everything.
+
+[34:23] It's just objectively worse to cook with. Yeah, yeah. I agree. We're on the same page, but for the But I don't really think that's opinion. Like, okay.
+
+[34:34] Anyway, but one thing you do say is that, and and I'm curious when you handed in the copy that you say you enjoy seeing the crystal diamond box, and they changed the freaking box. I hate the new box. It's taller than it used to be, it doesn't fit where it used to fit. What are your feelings on the new diamond box? First of all, why change an iconic box?
+
+[34:51] Yeah, so I was really mad at first. And same thing, I had to move the storage. It had to go to a different shelf because it didn't fit anymore. Yeah. So like that I had to fully rearrange my pantry because I always have at least three boxes.
+
+[35:03] But it's grown on me. Really? It's grown on me. I've been looking at it a lot. I'm over it.
+
+[35:08] I okay. I can't, I can't. I can't even. There's a pattern on it now, and I can't even look at it. I don't even know what the pattern is because it makes me so angry.
+
+[35:17] So you're saying I should chill and just like stare at the box for a while? Yeah, just stare at the box for a while. And I I like I like it now. I really hated it, but I it's grown on me. And then on the back they have these like line drawings of how to use salt, which I think is kind of cute.
+
+[35:33] So just put it like somewhere you can see stare at it for a while, and you'll you're gonna like it. Now I actually think it looks more classic and retro than the old design. The old design looks more 90s. This is, I feel like it's taking us to the 60s. Ah.
+
+[35:48] And I now I have to go back and look at like every year of more of a diamond uh crystal box. Anyway, uh so uh Dave had a couple more questions about washing. So, and you we do a lot, you do a lot of rice work in the book. If you're interested in rice, you do a lot of rice book. And by the way, before I even get to his question, you mentioned something that I've never had the guts to try.
+
+[36:10] So in your risotto, you're like, you could use so you're like carnaroli or borrio, sushi rice. And I was like, it's good. I'm not I'm not saying it's not, but I've never had the guts to try it. And I have sacks of like coco rows like sitting around because Booker loves sushi rice, and you know he that's one of the things he knows how to make again giant mess. But uh, you know, with the fanning and all nightmare.
+
+[36:38] But the um but I've never tried it. Was there a difference? Is it different but good, or is it just pretty much similar? I feel like it's very similar. Yeah.
+
+[36:47] Especially if you take the time and like toast it. Yeah. Um, and we often have sushi rice, but we don't always have risotto rice because we have a lot more sushi rice. It is overpriced. And I think it's fine.
+
+[37:02] Just like use some tamaki gold. Yeah. The very, very, very good sushi rice is still not nearly as expensive as okay carnarolier or borrio. Because it's branding, because it's Italian. If you say dry brine again, I'm just uh whoops.
+
+[37:19] Um so yeah, so because I I made a uh style of risotto uh last week. So uh that's what that's the thing I was gonna say last week, other than the pie. So uh we had JJ with uh what was it? What was JJ's book called? The rice uh the rice book when he came on, what's his book called?
+
+[37:36] I'll get it. Anyway, from Field Trip Restaurant, and so he was talking about John John mushrooms, which is a Haitian mushroom, and I'd never had it before. He came on the show, and I've been buying it. It's really expensive though. It's like $14 for a little bag at Calustian's, but it tastes delicious.
+
+[37:52] I highly recommend the John John. So I did a cold soak because cold soaks taste better on mushrooms. I'm sorry. Cold soak just tastes better. You can heat it afterwards, but you gotta cold soak it for a while.
+
+[38:01] I've done some tests, that's my opinion. You can have it, you can leave it. And uh I made a risotto where instead of broth, I used uh John John. Oh, and that was it. Yeah.
+
+[38:12] Well that was flavorful enough. Uh well, you know, you you I I grind up parsley and and and garlic and and shallots and and thyme. I didn't put the clove in and onion and butter. Okay, so it was like everything. And chanjon mushrooms.
+
+[38:27] John John mushrooms. But instead of using like stuff and you know, white wine. But instead of instead of using and it's like this like cool black color. Uh-huh. Yeah.
+
+[38:37] So I guess black risotto. Okay, I'm gonna try these. Yeah, yeah, yeah. John John. And it's I love the word Janjan.
+
+[38:43] DJ ON. If you keep talking about it, it's only gonna get more expensive. I doubt it could get how it's gonna get more expensive. Everything's a lie. Pricing is a scam.
+
+[38:54] That's true. You ever deal with liquor people? It's the worst. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[38:58] It's a complete, it's just they're like, we don't know how much we want to charge for this yet. We gotta figure out which person we want to buy it, and that's how much we're gonna charge for it. Really? They're like, yeah. I'm like, gross.
+
+[39:10] Uh so on rice. As for rice, uh, back to Dave. It's obvious that it should get washed as you insist, but rice can be full of all sorts of contaminants, such as rodent feces and whatnot. Gross. Gross.
+
+[39:22] Uh I've never seen rodent feces in my rice. Although I did have a whole bag of rice, like a 15 10 or 15-pound bag unopened that had weevils in it. So something had gotten in it, and because I had not opened the bag, I didn't vac it down. Nightmare. Wait, do you vacuum seal everything after you open it?
+
+[39:40] Uh I get like 50-pound sacks of grain. So sometimes the grain is like staying around. Where do you live? Uh so this is a bone of contention in my family. Oh, okay.
+
+[39:51] Yeah, like so. I'm only allowed to have a certain amount, but I I buy the half-gallon mason jars and I seal down half gallon mason jars with it because that it's enough to kill and nothing, nothing ever grows. And so since I started doing that, I've never had weevils ever. And I have a lot of grain in the house. You know, I've had problems with hams getting attacked by bugs.
+
+[40:13] Anything I used to keep open in large containers or whatever. Like it's you know what? It's okay till it's not. So if anything goes down and there's a food shortage, we all go to your house. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[40:23] You're you're ready. We're good. I got the as long as we have power, I've got the grinder and we're we're good to go. Okay. Um it's obvious you should get washes, you insist rodent feces.
+
+[40:29] So to me, uh that would seem like uh also a can uh cross contamination risk. It just seems a little contradictory. So they're still on this whole don't watch chicken thing. Still talking about the jig. I don't know where you're getting rice with rodent feces, like buy your rice somewhere else.
+
+[40:47] Yeah that's my only advice. Well, I have to say, when you get 50 pound sacks of grain, sometimes they're real clean and sometimes they're not. It's really weird. It's like sometimes they're really clean and sometimes they're really not. Well, you know how I buy chicken in a way, most people don't.
+
+[41:01] You buy green in a way, most people don't. Accurate. You know, accurate. Uh, but on another note, is this the same guy? Same guy.
+
+[41:08] On another note, uh he appreciates your encyclopedic cooking knowledge that they always seem to turn to in your former position at the magazine that will not be named. Uh so I know you've been doing 101 style vids for the uh, you know, for the because of the book, but some of us would love to see some of your more advanced and difficult techniques or tricks as well on the tubes. I mean, I want to do like a a part two, like a harder book. Would that be a uh two uh keep going? Yeah, so but but like yeah, yeah, like but what would you call it?
+
+[41:36] Like uh I don't know. Level up, level up. Oh, there you go. But they said no one would buy that. Who said that?
+
+[41:42] The publishers. They said no one buys advanced cookbooks. Listen, listen. You can do whatever you want. At this point, you can do whatever you want.
+
+[41:52] I don't think so. I think at this point you can do whatever you want. I think so. You know, I'd still like to make a living. I'd like the book to sell.
+
+[41:59] And it's I think people will buy it. You think people will buy a billion people bought Kenji's first book, right? Uh-huh. Food lab. And then he's like, I want to write a thousand page book on walks.
+
+[42:08] Mm-hmm. Right? And did it sell as much as Food lab? No, but it sold because he's Kenji and everybody had Food lab. You could do what you want.
+
+[42:15] Uh-huh. Yeah. I don't know. I'll think about it. But yeah, I would like to.
+
+[42:20] Yeah. People appreciate honesty from people. You're honest in this book. You'd be honest in the other book. People appreciate it.
+
+[42:26] Mm-hmm. I think. That's my opinion. Now, I'm not rich, so don't listen to me. But uh, that's just my feeling.
+
+[42:34] Uh Jason Lynn, uh, hey, so I've been a huge fan since the series eats days. My question is, has your approach to recipe development changed with the shifts in the way that people predominantly access food media? And if so, in what ways? Thinking along the lines of print recipes to digital articles to long and short video formats. And if you want to like TikTok lunacy.
+
+[42:54] I mean, I think I have a different strategy for every outlet. Um like with some of like New York Times, they want easy weeknight meals. Stuff that you use minimal bowls and happens in 40 minutes. So because it's like people who are looking to New York Times cooking food, they just like need help on a Wednesday night. So I go really simple.
+
+[43:17] Um, and then for like the book, I was kind of thinking more about teaching. Because when you have a book, you can like sit down and take more time with it. It's not just like I need something right now, I need to get dinner on the table now. So that's why it's a lot of the recipes in the book maybe take a little bit longer. There's the writing is a little bit longer.
+
+[43:36] I go more into detail because I want it to be more about teaching you instead of just like here's a quick recipe. And then with Instagram and TikTok, I think you just have to like get people's attention. And it doesn't necessarily have to be executable dishes for for a you know, people just want to see you do something. Like one of my biggest TikTok videos is just me making pie crust that no one is gonna make, but people just like seeing how this mass of flakes turned into a dough. They just watch it with no it's more entertainment.
+
+[44:09] Huh. I think TikTok and Instagram's entertainment, the book is teaching, and then other outlets like New York Times, Bon Appetit, it's more like a resource. Yeah. I don't know if that makes sense. Yeah.
+
+[44:20] I mean, it makes sense to me. I don't know if it makes sense to I don't know if I answered that question. I think you answered it. Uh Azoo writes in uh Hey Solo, big fan. Uh was sorry to hear about the annoying gatekeeping comments you get when you put out brown recipes.
+
+[44:34] You could talk about that if you would like to. My girlfriend is from uh Bangladesh and has always been excited by the prospect of getting to see more uh Bangladeshi recipes from you due to lack of English resources. Uh any plans for uh future recipes in that vein, would completely understand if you felt it wasn't worth the baggage of dealing with toxic randos on the internet, food content on Instagram students to have some of the most toxic comment sections I've seen anywhere. And also, would you happen to know, or would you be willing to say if you do happen to know anything if uh Stella Parks, that's Brave Tart for those of you that don't know people's names and monikers, is ever coming back. I don't know if I'm allowed to speak for her.
+
+[45:10] Yeah. Well, she is alive and well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's doing great. Stay tuned.
+
+[45:16] Um I like making a Bangladeshi cookbook is something that I also thought about because I think it'd be great to do something kind of like Rick Martinez going through the different regions of Bangladesh, because it is a lot of people, their perspective on it is they they don't know what's different from it compared to Indian food. And they and what little they know about Bangladeshi food, it's like a monolith. And it's not, it's very divided by all these rivers. There's very unique uh cuisine and culture in every little corner. Um, but I am afraid of getting ill at like I'm just I'm I'm so tired of it.
+
+[45:51] And that's why I don't make as much Bangladeshi food on the internet. Um, every time it's just like such a headache that I'm like, maybe I should just make pasta. Well, do you think it's like the kind of more reach you get, the more A-holes you also have to deal with, or like is it like this sort of like punishment, like the bigger you're reached, like the the more you have to get like this thick skin against a holes? Yeah, well, I mean, I also kind of get where they're coming from because it is an underrepresented cuisine, so they really want to see it showcased in the way they know it, you know, they really want to see the corma their mom made. But the fact is there's a million kinds of corma.
+
+[46:30] Oh, so you're getting it from both sides or one side. Who's who's causing you the most problems? What do you mean? Who's oh so the gatekeeping? You're saying that like from the from the Bangladeshi community, yeah, yeah.
+
+[46:39] It's it's the Bangladeshi community. Like, like I'll I'll spell a word slightly different than the spelling they might know. But the fact is Bangla translated to English, it's like there's a lot of ways to go with it. You know, the words don't directly translate, the sounds aren't exactly overlapping. So I but I understand because you want to see it presented the way you know it.
+
+[47:03] Yeah. And I totally get that, but I can't beat everybody's Bangladeshi person. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, I mean, like uh, you know, the Museum of Food and Drink, which is you know the project I've been on forever. Um, like that we've always kind of fought against someone saying that any one person has to represent some sort of weird false authenticity.
+
+[47:26] Everybody's experience is authentic to their experience and to where they come from. So it's it's weird to have to stand in for everybody's experience. Yeah, yeah. It's bizarre. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[47:36] But I mean, I understand because there's just not enough people out there representing this cuisine. Right. It's also difficult because I'm Bangladeshi, but I grew up in LA. I was like born and raised in LA. So my Is there a big community there?
+
+[47:47] Huge. So my perspective on the food is shaped around the ingredients available there. You know, it's not authentic to someone growing up in Taca. And I'm sorry for everyone there who's mad at me. Right, but like you're yeah, but that's the thing is like um I mean, cuisine is supposed to change when it moves.
+
+[48:06] Yes. That's how everything happens. It always has throughout history and time. But I think it's scary now because it's happening at a faster pace than it's like how you're talking about Italy in 1995 versus Italy now. Yeah.
+
+[48:18] Like I the first time I went to Italy, it was like 2003, and it was like a life-changing. I don't remember having a smartphone. I feel like I had to use a map to get around. Can you imagine? Yeah, right.
+
+[48:29] And everything, every single like place I went in Italy, like Rome was different from Cincitari, was different from uh Florence, and now everything's just an Instagram filter of Italy. So I but I feel like it's kind of what's happening with food. Everything's kind of like blending together and it's making people more protective of their perspective on it, if that makes sense. Right. Although, yeah, some people have always been that way though.
+
+[48:54] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean they have a voice now. Yeah. Uh MJ oh, what do you think that is?
+
+[49:01] 10,021. I'm gonna say that's how MJ pronounces it. Uh hello. I'm working on my Karaage recipe and I'm trying to get a crisp exterior uh exterior that stays crispy longer. Uh compared to my uh Karayage Karayage, I can't ever pronounce that right.
+
+[49:15] Some that I have seen seems much air. I generally use potato starch. And once the marinated chicken wets out the starch, I give it one more dunk before uh dropping into the hot oil. Other than different starches, is there anything uh that you think I can try to get an airier and longer lasting crunch? Thanks.
+
+[49:32] Other than different starches. My first thought was crisp coat. Yeah. People buy a lot that a lot now. Crisp coat's good.
+
+[49:39] I mean, I feel like we try everything at home with it. It does make a difference. But um what percentage? Because remember, like not being not being industrial means you can use a lot more of these expensive starches than you know, a regular industrial concern can because they cost a lot more, but not that much more compared to what you're doing in your life. You know what I mean?
+
+[49:59] So what do you think? I just eyeball it. Eyeball it with a spoon. Because it used to be, they used to say national starch, which is now ingredients, whatever they call themselves now. Janet Carver is still running that.
+
+[50:11] I would like to have her on the show one day. Anyway, uh I think they used to say 10%. Oh. But I feel like we all use more than 10%. I definitely use more than that.
+
+[50:20] Yeah. But I mean, besides starch, my other thought is just like oil temp. Yeah, what's your what's your I mean, like my feeling is it's hard to give any advice unless you know all of their steps because there are 30 ways to crispy. You know what I mean? But like how the like just intervening in the fifth step to crispy is not necessarily gonna help somebody unless you know what the first four steps and the next four steps are.
+
+[50:48] You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's my feeling. Yeah. It's hard.
+
+[50:51] Yeah. It's like people like, it's like uh you know, why isn't this working? I don't know. Tell me everything you did. Yeah.
+
+[50:57] You know what I mean? Like, tell me all the things. Like did you dry bride in the chicken? Oh my God, you're killing me. Arturo says, and I don't know which El Pastor place Arturo is referring to, but have you been to the tacos El Pastor place yet?
+
+[51:12] Which one? Is it like this is like I think I know which one they're talking about. All right. Which one are they talking about? Uh I recently did a podcast about El Pastor, like the history of it and my husband went to that place in Greenpoint.
+
+[51:25] Okay. Was it any good? It's incredible. I can't remember what it's called though. The Alto El Pastor Place in Greenpoint.
+
+[51:31] There you go. It is have you been there? No have to go. Do they have the pineapple on top with the cut? Yes.
+
+[51:37] And and the they uh they dry brine their meat. First of all, is it is it is it lam is it laminated up on the big thing? So it's really cool. So instead of doing slices like most people do and stack it up they cut it like an accordion style so it's one giant sheet of meat. Okay.
+
+[51:53] Sheet of meat that's my next band. Uh-huh and then they like fold it ripple it together and then uh they also do a dry brine marinade so it kind of is like a sausage vibe where it combines so when they slice it it doesn't all fall apart. It kind of sticks together and it gets so crisp. It's so flavorful. I think it's like you've been to Tacos Numerono right?
+
+[52:16] Which one's that is that the one in Chelsea markets. This this is miles above that and I love tacos and Marono. Yeah I mean to me El Pastor is a a volume trick. If you're not serving a crap ton of it. If you're not constantly cutting off of it and using a high heat, it's not going to be as good.
+
+[52:36] You know what I mean? Like yeah, yeah, definitely. I make a great Alpes door. Really? How many do you serve?
+
+[52:41] Like 10 an hour. Nope. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like this doesn't work.
+
+[52:46] Oh, speaking of it, you made me remind me. Jack, I forgot to ask you when you told me how big that meatball was. Texture of the meatball, was it meatloaf texture? Like so I how bound was the meat in the meatball? Because like I I don't like it when it's overbound.
+
+[53:04] No, it wasn't overbound. It was maybe somewhere between meatloaf and like a smaller, you know, regular meatball. Okay. So but like so they hadn't over over salted and worked the meat before they formed it into a ball. No, I don't think so.
+
+[53:22] No. No, don't you hate when they overwork when they overwork a meat like that and then they dry it out? I hate that. I'm sorry, right behind you. Selena pulled up the name of the taco class.
+
+[53:30] Oh, what's the name of the plastic? All right. So see, we have the internet. We can't, we can do this. Yeah.
+
+[53:38] Uh and so I can get to it before we start uh saying ask my own questions. Uh Sam Silverman wants to know when's big brunch coming back, which is with uh Oh, I don't I don't think it's coffee back. What's he like to work with? Is he a okay guy? Yeah, I know I know Will, but I don't know, Dan.
+
+[53:52] Obviously, I don't know. No, it actually like uh I think everyone was surprised by how well the three of us got along. Um just like clicks. It was a very good, I don't know, I guess that's what uh what is that called, where you talk and they see if you like each other. I don't know.
+
+[54:05] I've never chemistry tests. I guess that's why is that a thing? Yeah, yeah. Before whenever you do a show with other people, you do like a zoom together and you just hang out to see if you guys like click, vibe, or hate each other. This is why nothing I ever try to do works.
+
+[54:20] I failed the chemistry test. Um yeah, all right. Uh I haven't I I I mean, I haven't. I should check it out. It's on HBO.
+
+[54:31] I have HBO. Yeah, check it out. Tell your friends. Maybe it'll come back. I don't know.
+
+[54:35] I don't know. These things are. I don't know. All right. So, oh, I don't remember where it is because this is something I read the last time we're gonna come on.
+
+[54:41] Bone to pick before we, you know, we have five minutes left. Bone to pick. I feel if you don't like pressure cookers, it's because you're following somebody else's technique that's not right with the pressure cooker. Okay, tell me about pressure cookers. I understand what you're saying.
+
+[54:55] I forget the exact term that you use, but I said that I feel like when you cook meat in a pressure cooker, the the sauce tastes better than the meat. So I prefer just like low and right. Like I was uh the vibe I got was like you're like, I don't want it to taste like pot de feu. I want it to taste like you know what I mean? Uh-huh.
+
+[55:12] Yeah. So you have to drastically reduce the liquids. Yeah. And then figure out a way to not get it to scorch. So it's like, you know, like it's just easier to just not do that.
+
+[55:25] No, but I love I love the way, like when like properly done, but I don't like beans in a pressure cooker because beans require evaporation. Very few dishes I think require the evaporation. They just require good. This is the book I was supposed to be writing, moisture management. This require good moisture management.
+
+[55:41] Uh-huh. Right. Wait, are you writing a book called Moisture Management? Yes, but I put it on pause to do the 10th anniversary of the cocktail book, and then I gotta get back to moisture management. Everyone says I shouldn't call everyone who listens to this show says I should call it moisture management, and everybody call it moisture management.
+
+[55:54] Everyone says like just listen to me with the branding and the marketing. It just sounds like how about this? Yeah. About this. Ready?
+
+[56:00] Uh-huh. The miracle of moisture management. No, no. It just doesn't sound like it's about food. The miracle of moisture management.
+
+[56:09] No? No? All right. Uh anyway, I feel like, you know, um, I go through a lot to kind of get the moisture levels to come out right when you open it so it doesn't taste like you've done a braise with too much liquid. You know what I mean?
+
+[56:23] Or a stew. I know you go into the difference between braise and stews. The wavy line between. No. I was look worried about you.
+
+[56:32] I don't know, because you know what you're talking about. Yeah, no, but no, I like like look, I think there's like there's obviously any any cook you're gonna agree with and disagree with thing, but I love I love the approach. And I like, you know, most of it. So like for instance, this sushi thing blew me away. And also I want to know because I have never made halva, and you're like, you're like American's halva game blows anyway.
+
+[56:51] Because we don't know anything about it. So like, and I was gonna ask you, because you call out some uh brands of tahini, which actually aren't easy to get locally. I don't think the ones that that what do you do when you get a tahini that is just like a brick with the oil on top? Is there any decent way to stir that back together or it just sucks? Uh you have to take it out of the jar.
+
+[57:08] Like right up. Like you can't do it in the jar. It's annoying, but I'll put it in a bowl and whisk it. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[57:16] But it's worth it. Because once you take it a second, do it well, it'll hold for a little bit. Freaking hate that. Because is there anything stiffer than when you try to jam the spoon into the bottom and then try to get that anything stiffer than that? No, it doesn't, it doesn't work with you just gotta make a bowl dirty.
+
+[57:32] Yeah. So you call out like uh like chickpea halvas. Have you ever uh tried any of those? Like what are those other ones like the texture of those? Um I tried one, I tried a chickpea one recently.
+
+[57:41] Good. And it was delicious. I couldn't nail the texture. I've only tried it once. I need to try it again, but uh really, really good flavor.
+
+[57:48] You you kind of make a roux with chickpea flour and key, and then you add the I was trying to do the pulled halva. So I um I tried to you have to set the sugar in like a mold, like a ring mold so it it it cools down at an even rate. We have two minutes and then you pull it, but I like poured it on a still pat so the edges crystallize, but the flavor is so amazing. Yeah, you try it again. Oh, uh are you gonna post are you gonna post a recipe for it?
+
+[58:15] I don't know. People don't do a lot of these things in private. Oh yeah, all right, all right. I mean that's the kind of stuff that that's the kind of content I'm like, ooh, chipy hava. Like uh, because I'm also fascinated with this idea of like the interchangeability in Italian cuisine in like southern Italian cuisine of like chestnuts and chickpeas.
+
+[58:30] You know what I mean? Like like we make this cookie with with chestnuts or chickpeas if we don't have chestnuts. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Interesting.
+
+[58:37] Uh when you were at Del Posto, were you savory side or pastry side? Savory. Savory side. That's where I made those tiny aranchinis. Yeah, there you go.
+
+[58:45] Oh, yeah, those are gonna happen. Did you have to put the gold dust all over them? Yeah. Those were really hard because the center were completely molten. Yeah.
+
+[58:52] So it's pretty tough to roll, but you know, you get yelled at enough, you figure it out. Uh hopefully. Hopefully you're hopefully you're being yelled at by people days is over. Hopefully that is over in the kitchen in general. Homemade mayo, you actually think it's worth it, huh?
+
+[59:04] Uh-huh. Come on. What if I'm gonna add a bunch of flavor to it? Then not, right? I still think it's worth it.
+
+[59:09] Okay. You have to convince me. Here's an idea. Here's an idea whose time has come. Deviled egg dip.
+
+[59:14] What? What? Because nobody wants to pick up I do. I'll eat a whole plate of deviled eggs myself because deviled eggs are delicious. Uh-huh.
+
+[59:21] But like this devil egg dip, I thought this was a genius idea. Are people going crazy for deviled egg dip? Does people even pick up on the fact that you could make deviled eggs into the flavor of deviled egg into a dip? I noticed no paprika instead, like the akura, but that's fine. Uh-huh.
+
+[59:33] Like we can be different. Yeah. You know what I mean? But like, have people picked up on this? I I believe so.
+
+[59:37] Yeah, I think so. Alright, nice. Uh Joe's gonna good Joe's gonna kick me off the air before I get to all my questions. But listen, Sola, come back anytime you want. Okay, cool.
+
+[59:45] The book is Start Here, Instructions for Becoming a Better Cook by Sola L. Whaley. Buy it anywhere you buy fine books. It's uh I think we have it for our Patreon people on discount at Kitchen Arts and Letters, where I hope you buy your books if you're from New York City. Thanks for being on.
+
+[59:59] Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan in New York City, Rockefeller Center, New Stance Studios, joined as usual with Joe Hazen rocking the panels. How you doing, Joe? I'm doing well, man. Good to see you.
+
+[0:22] Good to see you. Yeah, back to back. This is the first time ever Doubleheader Cooking Issues episode. We're excited. Gonna bring uh two very different episodes.
+
+[0:31] But uh hopefully Patreon people are still uh with us. And if you're listening live on Patreon, you can call in your questions to 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507. And uh Quinn, we have Quinn in the upper left corner. How are you doing, Quinn?
+
+[0:47] Why don't you tell him how to join Patreon if they don't know how? I'm good. Yeah, you go to Patreon.com slash cooking issues. As Dave mentioned, that gives people the option to listen either live or get the recorded podcast early alongside uh benefits like uh discounts on cookbooks or occasionally other products related to our gifts and uh questions. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[1:16] We've had we've given we've given some food discounts, right? Meets from Edwards Age meets and whatnot. Uh didn't we do it? We did something for uh Aura King, I think, when they uh were a sponsor. So yeah.
+
+[1:27] Also Nick Globen. Oh, yeah. Yeah, Mr. Greasy, the olive oil man himself. Yeah, who's now uh touring the touring the world, playing a bass.
+
+[1:36] Do you know he has a new olive uh he he he got olive wood and had it put into a base? That was the latest thing I saw from him. Brand new funky bass. Anyway, four strengths, thank God. Four is all you need, Quinn.
+
+[1:47] Did you know that? Four strength is all you need. If you can't say it with four, why say it? You know what I mean? Anyway.
+
+[1:54] Uh over in LA, we have Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing? I'm still good. Are they? Well, remember, some people are just hearing this.
+
+[1:59] You gotta always put your mind in other people's shoes, Nastasia. Not everybody listens to them both in a row. I know, but you still have to. If I'm only listening to the second half, this is like customer service. 101.
+
+[2:16] You know what I mean? You're good? Are you still? Yeah. Are they still uh working on the pipes?
+
+[2:23] Are you still you still have to do this remotely from a coffee shop? I'm in a coffee shop. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, the joys, the joys of living near other people.
+
+[2:31] So that so that Joe doesn't get upset. Oh, so now Joe's the big bad wolf. Yeah. All right. Thanks.
+
+[2:39] All right. No, I just don't want the background sound. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And uh Jackie Molecules, how you doing? Good.
+
+[2:46] Not in a coffee shop. All right. And uh in the our second special guest of the day in studio, it would have been kind of cool to have everyone. If the studio was like twice as big, we could have had everyone in at the same time, but we can't. Is uh Kevin Jung is here, who is the you're telling me the title is research chef at NOMA at NOMA and NOMA projects?
+
+[3:09] At NOMA, NOMA Projects, and uh primarily the fermentation lab. Okay, okay. But I mean, like when I visited you there, like it's not like you're in the same thing. You're doing the stuff. It's not like you're like in a separate, it's not like when Nastasia and I.
+
+[3:24] So you're FCI grad, French Culinary Institute grad. Yeah. And we're there in the days when Nastasia and I were in a trash closet across the way from the Italian kitchen. And you're not in a trash closet. You're like you're like part of the whole McGill.
+
+[3:35] Like you're producing the products that are actually on the menu as well as are being sold, correct? Yeah, and I mean, it's the the first ver iteration of the fermentation lab, but the old NOMA was uh these old shipping containers outside. And that's where Dave Zilber, who you've, you know, guest of the show, uh where he started the program with uh Lars Williams of uh Empirical and Ariel Johnson, another uh friend of the show. And uh the irony is they've they've let us into the building in NOMA 2.0 and then the test kitchen, which was in the building in NOMA 1.0 is now in a greenhouse outside. Um and though Danish summer is quite short, it is sunny and it is a working greenhouse.
+
+[4:07] A lot of times they're spraying each other with ice water to keep seeing out there. It's hot a bit hot as hell. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Although it's a nice greenhouse. It is a nice greenhouse.
+
+[4:14] So if if anyone should be lucky enough to go to the restaurant. So we went right after you did your Kyoto thing uh last year, right? Yeah, and you came in the the vegetable season, the vegetarian season. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I was surprised by because you know, I I seem to know you as uh as someone who who enjoys his uh his meats.
+
+[4:31] I do enjoy my meats, but I enjoy any but like I I have to say, well, I said it before because I talked about it when I got back from it. Uh I went being like, how goo to be. It was really good. It's really, really good. But like the crazy thing about it is uh it's like you have like 80 people on staff for 80 covers.
+
+[4:46] Like it's loony, but amazing. Like everybody like I felt a little bit like uh like a robber baron. Like like no one should be able to live this well, kind of. Yeah, I mean it's a whole experience. Uh the the whole time you were in the building, you cared for by you know more people than are in the in the dining room at any any given point in time.
+
+[5:06] It's funny during COVID, they they institute the whole like um capacity restriction, and they're like base it on square footage, and you know, you've been to NOMA, you know how big it is, and you know, we only serve 80, 80 something guests every night, and they're like, Well, you have to cap your your covers at like a hundred and fifty, a hundred and eighty people, and we're gonna be a good thing. Like, no problem. It's so funny. Uh but when you go, you start out in a greenhouse and they pour you like uh some libation some starting libations. Yeah, you you get uh like a a welcome cocktail, whether it's uh sometimes it's champagne, sometimes it's a cocktail we make in house, sometimes it's some tea if you're if you're having the the non-alcoholic bearing for the the evening, and it's just uh a nice way to start off, especially in the summertime.
+
+[5:48] Why is the test kitchen there? Uh I it was I don't know exactly why they chose to go outside. I don't know. It was might have been part of the the design, but the idea is that the test kitchen is its own thing. So they have their own dishwasher, their own fridges, their own sections, their own cutting boards and pans and pots and and circulators and things like that.
+
+[6:06] So there's none of this like running inside being like who's using the circulator right now. We need it in the test kitchen, and then likewise they don't run in there from service being like I need a frying pan right now. Everyone has their own things. So so there's uh there's no back and forth and it's uh less disruptive. Uh now I I have to say I don't really, and then um from if you're not allowed to say or whatever, I don't know what's going on because you know, they say, okay, we're shutting down, but they're not shutting down, but they are, but they're not.
+
+[6:33] What the heck is actually going on with NOMA? What's the deal? Yeah, the hot topic of uh of NOMA right now is everyone wants to know like what's NOMA 3.0 gonna be. And and uh I mean the the most I can tell you right now is uh for for 20 years, NOMA's been this restaurant that's uh been open however many days of the week, and and the the ability of of us to to enrich and change the lives of of people is limited to those 80 or something people who come into the dining room every day, right? If you've never eaten a NOMA, there's you don't really know that experience.
+
+[7:02] You don't know what it's like to to come in and have the the vegetable season menu that you did, or to go to Kyoto or Mexico for one of the pop-ups. So um uh one of the great endeavors we have is is by not being a restaurant in the traditional sense of the word anymore where we have to be ready for service every single day. We can work on larger scope projects uh such as NOMA projects or or working on uh reducing food waste or partnering with uh different uh collaborators to to try to widen the scope and and become something more than just a restaurant, but something that can enhance and and engage people beyond just the hungry people who come to a restaurant every day. Right. But I mean, like you're still hiring like Francisco Magoya just showed up, right?
+
+[7:41] So you're not hiring him on for pastry if you're not going to continue to make things like pastries. But you you have to like or breads or whatever. Yeah, so Francisco, he was uh the pastry chef of the French laundry back in the day, but most recently he was working for Nathan Mervold at uh at the modernist cuisine uh cuisine lab. And like that's not a restaurant either, right? But but they're working on things to to spread knowledge and to to learn as much as they can uh about any given topic.
+
+[8:08] I think the pizza book was the the most recent one to come out. So he was on that one. Yeah. Yeah. He came here for that, I think.
+
+[8:14] Yeah. He was here on the show, and I think it was for the pizza book. Yeah, I I listened. So I have I have a lot of friends who have been on the show, and I consulted with all of them just to just if there's there's any tips like like don't mention these things to Dave or he'll get angry and mute your mic or something like that. No, I mean like no, that's never happened, but uh Francisco was not pleased because he knew he was gonna get backlash on how hard they were on New Haven pizza.
+
+[8:35] And they deserve to get backlash. There's no reason to be so harsh to the New Haven pizza people. I mean, it's not at the level that most modern pizza people are, but it's still it's what it is. I've never had it before, so I've You've never been to New Haven? No.
+
+[8:48] No, no, no. It's uh I mean I've spent I was here for the FCI for seven months, it was a six-month program, right? Um, but I'm from Toronto, Canada, and then I've spent a lot of time in Europe. I've never been to New Haven. Uh I've never I've been in Chicago, but I never had a deep dish pizza either.
+
+[9:02] I mean, no offense. But you're not missing. I'm gonna go ahead and say that it's fine, you know. But I mean, I've ranted about this before on the air, but like, you know, you go there and they're like, just so you know, it's gonna be like 45 minutes before you get your pizza. I'm like, why?
+
+[9:19] Or don't you make these for a living? What the hell? You know what I mean? Like, anyway, uh it's fine. But I went to uh so the first night we got into town, because he's also in New York right now, um, uh helping with this NOMA projects and NOMA tour that we're we're going uh going on right now.
+
+[9:35] The the first night we were in town, we went to uh stretch Wiley's. Oh nice. And uh I gotta say it was like it was nice to see Wiley. Uh it was my first tasting menu experience way back in 2008 at WD50. Old school.
+
+[9:46] Yeah. Um but it was kind of like like being brought to the Vatican by the Pope himself because like Wiley just started sending out pies and everything, and and Francisco's got all you know, he's got all the inside track on so much of this pizza stuff. So it's it was like a learning experience, but delicious at the season. So what's it like going to Wiley's pizza place with Francisco Magoya? Like in the real life, it's like he's like he's like picking up the cause the thing is that like you know, uh at that point you can't enjoy anything in the real life.
+
+[10:08] You gotta be looking at the bottom, you gotta be looking at all these little things. It's like I I thankfully have gotten kind of think past that point in my life where I can actually enjoy meals again, but you know what I mean? Like Yeah, I mean it's it wasn't what you think where he's you know poking at it with a pro uh uh a knife or something like that, but um he did have some opinions about about certain styles of pizza. Uh he did mention New Haven pizza. I I have to be honest, uh in that he did mention that.
+
+[10:34] But I think the the best reaction we had uh simultaneously was uh we got the um the Sicilian style slice that Wiley does. Oh yeah, I like that. Yeah, and we got it go to Lifton, you know, very airy. Exactly. Like it was so light.
+
+[10:45] It's like a pillow. And crispy pillow. We lifted it with a knife and fork because we were afraid the top is gonna go to uh fall off. Sorry, I just hit the mic. That's fine.
+
+[10:51] Um and we almost put the pizza right into the ceiling. It was so light he's not used to it being like that. And I mean Francisco was like dumbfounded, and you know, why Wiley gives us a tour at the end, he's just talking about this dough. Like, how do you do this? And how come it's so light?
+
+[11:03] It was it was he spent a long time on that dough, and it's got yeah, very crisp bottom, not dry, crisp bottom, super light. I think it's a good it's a good slice. It's like uh I don't know how much he pushes that, but uh this is one of the ones that he sent out. Uh so what we did was we were like, well, you know, maybe we'll just order and then that way Wiley's like if we say, you know, Wiley send out whatever you want, we're gonna get you know smashed with with so much food. So we we ordered uh a pizza each and then still got smashed with a lot of food.
+
+[11:30] Yeah. Um it's kind of an sometimes it's a nightmare, right? You just want to like have some small amount of food and leave. But you know, that's that sounds terrible to say when when you know this the whoever is is feeding you is giving you L's. It's a great privilege.
+
+[11:42] Yeah, it's a great privilege, but sometimes you get very full. A lot of times you get very, very full. And there's there have been instances where I've had friends set me up with a meal and and uh the chef will send a lot of stuff out, and you're just trying to keep keep a brave face on and be polite, but in the end you're like rolling out of there. Like that's the rest of your day. It's just you're going home, you're going to sleep.
+
+[12:01] And yeah, I mean the the lucky thing is you can't you shouldn't really do it at a bar because you'll really F people up. You know what I mean? You have to really ask them what they want, or you know, let them know for sure that they're not obligated to finish this crap. Because that's the thing. I feel obligated to finish almost anything I'm handed.
+
+[12:18] Unless it's really over the top. You know what I mean? Like um anyway. Um what the thing interesting about Wiley on the Sicilian is that he like his focus is the like this like modern take on old school New York slices. So I feel like you like growing up, Sicilian was something that we would always get, but it was never like great.
+
+[12:40] It was never better than like the floppy, slicey fold in half. Right, right. And so, like, you know, in his mind, he's shooting for that that ure like what would it be if it was what I wanted it to be. So I think people gotta wrap their mind around that before they even taste it to see kind of like how weird it is. You know what I mean?
+
+[12:58] Anyway, I mean the toppings are great too. The the what's the one based on the grilled cheese at the bar down the street with the the pumpernickel and the monster cheese? Oh, yeah, I've only had that like once. I like pumper nickel a lot. I think every I think there should be a pumpernickel version of everything.
+
+[13:09] See, in in in Denmark, uh a lot of the bread is has that flavor because it's a lot of dark rye bread, it's got that uh that that sourness to it, which is uh super nice. All right, listen, there's the bread in Denmark. Yeah, and I'm trying to so it was uh so you someone at Noma, because we were gonna eat the next day, lunch was our last meal, and they sent us or no dinner, dinner. They sent us to a place that's normally a lunch place, and we told them we'd already gone to how you're pronounced told in schnapps, and they sent us to another place that's like that, and they bake made this bread that I'm trying to figure out how they made that was baked in a ramekin, real crispy, like with cornmeal on the outside. Do you know the restaurant I'm talking about?
+
+[13:48] Based off the bread course. I mean, it was it a dark bread? Relatively dark, but like kind of soft on the inside, and you would cut it. Bread was great, and they wouldn't tell me anything about it. It was old school Danish, did you have someone speaking English to you?
+
+[14:01] Uh no. Okay. I mean, it's old school Danish, but like I forget. It was one of the places you got to recommended. And speaking of old school Danish, I've said on the air many times how much I love the Danish pork skin game.
+
+[14:12] And you have oop, you have brought me the Danish pork skin. Where's the camera for those that can see it? Oh yeah, look at this. So this looks like a much more vicious, if shorter fingered version of those weird things that people use if they don't know how to pull pork without them. You know what I mean?
+
+[14:30] Those like garden tongs. But this, you want to describe this for me? It feels great. It feels great because it's ergonomic Danish design, right? It's like a solid block of like what feels like polypropylene.
+
+[14:41] I can't see, but it like it feels like I could really mess up some some pork screen with that. It's got the the blades are kind of calibrated so that they're they're short so they don't puncture the flesh of the I mean we get really nice pork in in Denmark. Uh so it's supposed to go through the skin into a little bit of the fat, and that's what gives you that that that crunchy headside. Um whether it's a belly or or loin, or if I in my opinion, the best cut is the the neck, the pork neck. If you get a uh boned out pork neck with the skin still on, when we do uh Christmas lunch at the restaurant, it's the last day of uh before Christmas before everyone goes on holiday, and um all the the sous chefs and the managers we cook for the rest of the team.
+
+[15:17] Normally it's chefs parties and interns rotating in. Um and it's always the pork neck because it's like is it actually the is it actually the neck? Yep. And how much how much of a uh meat cap is there? Or is it basically skin and then you stuff it with something else?
+
+[15:31] Oh no, there's there's lean in there as well. Like the bear in mind these are these are massive pigs as well. Um they're uh I don't know how old they get, but they're they're heavy. Like it's it's a thick hide as well. Like this this tool will uh you need it to get through the skin on this.
+
+[15:44] So then what what like so are you like salting it down for like a long time or like Yeah, you you you start the uh the day before and you you'll salt the meat um and then usually what happens is uh you you put it in a um it's a hotel pan here. It's a gastro in Europe, it is a hotel pan here. Gastro north. And uh you put it on a rack. Usually there's a little bit of uh of stock or water in the bottom underneath the rack, and you you kind of steam bake it uh till it's basically where you want it, and then you take it out of the oven, you rest it for a little bit, and in the meantime you're cranking that oven and you just blast it and the skin kind of bubbles and gets all crisp.
+
+[16:20] And if you've scored it with this, that's how it separates and you can slice right through the. And do you protect do you protect the bottom when you're doing the flash off? Or or you just let it let it go. It's cool enough, it doesn't over it doesn't dry out in it. Also, also because it's neck, right?
+
+[16:33] There's uh you you have a a bigger window of success there. If it a lot of times if it's loin, it can get dry. Yeah. Um loin being kind of like the uh you know, the the turkey of of Christmas, where you uh sometimes it's quite dry, even though you have a crispy skin. Uh with the neck, there's so much fat and um and gelatin in there that it's it's super juicy afterwards.
+
+[16:53] So compare it to like belly, you know how belly has one or two muscles that dry out in it, you know, like you when you're looking at the belly like like a lot of it's good and then a couple of them are dry, neck doesn't have any of that. It's all it's all the goodness. Yeah, and like the cross section of the neck, um, because we'll we'll tie it so it's like kind of like round. Um but when you slice into it, it looks almost like if you take a cross section of um uh a pork leg, right? So there's like small muscle groups in there um with connected tissue between.
+
+[17:19] Wait, so you tie it around like a mini porchetta? Pretty much, yeah. Yeah, because you want you want to keep it as as tight as possible, and then uh and then you you bake it off so that it's uh the the skin faces up and gets super crispy under the broiler. Wait, but but you cook it flat in the liquid, then you roll it in the middle. No, no, no, that's you roll it first.
+
+[17:38] You know the liquid, the the pork itself isn't in the liquid, it's just used as a uh source of steam. Like a moderator, okay, exactly. But it's so you do it that way, you don't just do it one year combis? We do it in the combi as well. This is just uh double?
+
+[17:44] Yeah, just to make sure. I mean and is that liquid aromatic? I forget whether you said it is a liquid aromatic or not. Yeah. So uh I mean a cheeky thing we do is sometimes we'll throw a couple of the garms in there just for uh because you cause because you're made of money?
+
+[18:01] Yeah, well, I mean, we're not made of money, but we're made of uh a lot of a lot of meat scraps and things like that from service. So we we never have a shortage of uh of fun little experiments that we have going around that never made the menu, but but tastes good regardless, and sometimes they'll find their way into staff meal. Uh-huh. So Quinn, this sounds like it's up your alley. You gonna try this sometime?
+
+[18:20] I mean, yeah, I don't have uh I don't have any germs on hand at the moment. It's actually been like a really long time since I made a batch of I'm really getting the itch. Right, but Quinn, that's the last step. I'm saying you're gonna get the pork neck. That's the that's the thing you gotta get is the pork neck.
+
+[18:38] I've never even seen pork neck in my my normal stores around here. Yeah, I've never seen it uh in North America in like the cut like it is, but like you can get it in you know the the Danish equivalent of a of a Whole Foods. It's it's a very common cut. Huh. I wonder if there's a Danish butcher.
+
+[18:51] Maybe it's like uh I wish like I wish I knew where there was a Colombian butcher so I could get that pig head with the cape. You know what I mean? Like I've I've heard you describe it on air before and I've seen photos. I've yet to see it in in in in first person. Well, because every butcher has their own right.
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+[19:06] You need a way to use whatever like however you cut it, you need a way to use it all, right? So like every culture has their own way of hacking up the pig, you know. Speaking of going back from pig to beef, have you ever had this red Devon cattle? I've been reading about it, and now I really want it. Red Devon from England.
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+[19:26] Yeah. But but they they have it everywhere, and it's apparently it's one of the it's one of the better grass-fed like it's one of the better tasting beef on grass, beef on grass. Like like naturally feeding on grass or okay. In other words, like if you're not like if you're gonna have grass-fed, there's no point apparently in doing it. It marbles well on grass.
+
+[19:48] So and has good flavor on grass. So it's kind of optimized for grass. But now I want to taste it. But you know, they've I found places in the United States where I could buy a whole cow. What am I gonna do, Kevin, with a whole cow?
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+[20:00] Yeah, not much. No idea. I don't have a big enough freezer like you could buy half a beef. A big enough freezer, a big enough family. Because I mean, if you're a big enough family, you don't want to put it in the freezer, you just roast the whole whole thing off.
+
+[20:11] Yeah. Have you ever had a I've never had a whole roast cow, but I imagine it would be disappointing. Yeah, I've seen photos of uh like on the I don't know what the name of the massive spit is where it's it's splayed out like a kite and it's it's slow roasted for hours. I can't imagine out the door, right? Yeah, exactly.
+
+[20:26] And I I I can't imagine there's not no part of that animal that's horrendously overcooked. Yeah, well, I'm sure there's some parts of it that don't mind being overcooked. You know what I mean? But I'm sure the vast majority of it, it's this is like this is why you need so much sauces and stuff. You know what I mean?
+
+[20:41] Like so much goopy sauce to make up for the fact that you viciously overcooked the meat. So so you said you were doing a tour here for Noma Projects. Why you describe Noma projects? It's not like people can join the club because it's sold out, but maybe they could join the wait list. Well, so Noma Projects, the club you're you're referring to is uh called the Taste Buds, and this is kind of like uh a subscription-based annual service we have where um you know, for example, we we have a very large audience of of people who are interested in tasting our uh our products and interested in purchasing them.
+
+[21:12] Um, and that kind of puts a cap on what we can produce, because I mean I'm sure you can imagine if you're you're picking like the little little bit of lemon time off uh off a branch to make a ferment, you can't make however many hundreds of thousands of kilos of it to feed the the wide supply, but for a lar a smaller uh subscription base, you can do a lot of those things that maybe are too labor intensive or too expensive um to produce in a in a grander scale. So so that uh that kind of group is called the Taste Buds. We s we sell the the memberships annually um and we do have a wait list every year. Um But you you if you if you make it on, are you automatically allowed to sign up? Is it like wine where once you're on the list you you have a spot next to you as long as you accept it?
+
+[21:54] Yeah, you get a renewal notice uh at the end of the year. And that's how you know this is the second year we're doing taste buds right now. So quite a few people from the first batch uh when offered the renewal, they they signed on because they they kind of understand that every year we try and do it to improve. And you know, Noma is 20 years a restaurant, and we're very good at being a restaurant, but as a as a retail, um like all these products and selling them to to the general consumer, we're still a startup, right? Like we're still we have the expertise on flavor, but some of the the added value things like like I like I mentioned, we have a Discord for the taste buds and and promotional things like this tour in New York City.
+
+[22:29] Um that's those are things that we are uh challenging ourselves to to improve and think about in the future. Right, but it's in a it's a different model. So when most people most people try to make like uh sauces or whatnot or liquors or whatever, they're they're looking to take their recipes, find a co-packer, uh, and then kind of produce it and sell it on a wider market, and you're going in the opposite direction. Well, we do have a line of uh of products like like the corn corn you use a hot sauce. That's that's something available to anyone who wants to go on the website and purchase a bottle.
+
+[23:03] Like what the idea is. But are you still making it or is it co-packed? Uh we make it. We have a so we have restaurant Noma, which you saw, and you saw the the fermentation lab that I work in, and there's no way we're making that amount of hot sauce in in that size of a lab. We have uh another facility that's larger that has all the the big equipment that like the large steam cookers and and a bottling machine and things like that.
+
+[23:21] And that's where all these products are produced and stored. Uh if we're talking talking liters, it's like I don't even know. Like it could fit several of me, and I'm not a small person. Yeah, when uh when the Concord Hotel, Concord, yeah, Concord Hotel closed down in the Catskills, I went to the auction, and so they would serve thousands of people a day, thousands and thousands. And their steam kettles, I I couldn't I've never I I I couldn't believe it.
+
+[23:50] I could I I was like I I was like I was speechless. It was like Florida Florida huge ceiling, like I'm talking like multi-cow. You could just take whole cows and throw them into these steamers, supplement like breakfast cereal. Yeah. I was crazy.
+
+[24:03] I've never seen anything in my life, I've never seen anything like it. Can you believe that a place that was that big ever shut down? It's like I can't believe it was ever built, much less shut down. It's crazy. Like when we started the uh whole idea of producing our ferments on a larger scale, we we had to look at equipment.
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+[24:19] We had to look at spaces and and you know, part of that is is visiting companies and and factories that do this on the regular in large amounts, just to kind of you know get an idea of of what we were were in for if we're going in this direction. And the equipment I saw was like, I didn't even know machines like this existed. Like they're just massive, huge capacity, things were automated that I I thought you wouldn't be able to automate. It was it's a whole different world. And so how different is the product?
+
+[24:44] Like how much work? So if you so it's very unusual for one person to, unless this is their job, to do something on a restaurant scale and then be the same person to move it up to production scale on a larger piece of equipment. So it's gotta be a huge learning curve. Like what's like what's been more most surprising about that kind of move? Uh I mean, it's a lot of it is you when you extrapolate a restaurant recipe, um, and I give the example of, you know, this, there's we have a Dropbox file with where the all the chefs have access to the recipes every season.
+
+[25:19] Um, and they'll they'll get like recipes for spice mixes. But the test kitchen, they work in quantities of like eight covers or 12 covers. They're very small, and then you have to extrapolate that to 80-something people per service. So all these recipes, they're then you know, multiplied by two, four, six, whatever. And then you take those original test kitchen recipes, and then you're extrapolating it not to 80, but maybe 80,000.
+
+[25:40] And suddenly it's like, I don't think I need 5,000 cloves in this recipe because the original recipe was like one clove, and that was just the unit size, right? So uh a lot of that is is uh really interesting when we have a production manager at Noma Projects and she'll come and she'll like look at a recipe and be like, so I put this into the uh the algorithm, like the extrapolate the formula, and I think this is a very odd number to get of of like salt or or of some foraged ingredients, and you know, there's like the wild rose vinegar, the amount of rose petals you need, and it's it's by weight and like rose petals weigh nothing. And she's like, Where am I gonna get all these roses from? You know? And so was it just was it correct though?
+
+[26:18] Did you actually need that many roses, or was it just a scaling error because the original recipe had so few? Most of the time you can you can shave the the the like if it's the rose vinegar, you can shave the amount of roses down, but then surprisingly in some of them, it's like you need that ratio to stay the same. Otherwise the flavor is a little bit different. I wonder whether it's uh, you know, a volume versus surface area problem with volatiles, where when you're using something that's intensely volatile and you have a much larger volume for surface area that it is much less loss, I wonder. There's definitely uh like I would say the most um uh surprising thing was uh so for example we have like the dashi reduction um on the table here.
+
+[26:57] Um when when we made miso for the first time at Noma, obviously when you're making miso, the um the ceramic weights you have on top of the miso, they force the tamari to separate, and that's this kind of syrupy, very rich in umami and sweet liquid. And um that was Renee's favorite part of the uh of the miso, but we couldn't just make miso for that little bit of liquid on top. So what we developed was uh a technique where we we blend that miso with water, and then we'll either spin it in the centrifuge or we'll we'll ice clarify it and collect the liquid and then put it in a in a low dehydrator and reduce it all the way down. And then we get maybe not 100% true uh true to form tamari, but we get about like 95, 98% there. That's pretty close.
+
+[27:38] Yeah. So you have to side by side to tell the difference. Yeah. Huh. Yeah.
+
+[27:41] And I I think the most it's like this like syrupiness that the true tamari has that that our reductions. Are you vacuum reducing it? Uh well, we we were doing it in dehydrators in in like little like regular dehydrates, yeah, wide containers. And then when they started to do that in larger quantities at Noma projects, uh a lot of times it was bitter because it's such a high qual quantity that uh the proportion of surface area to dehydration meant that it spent so long you were essentially like you know you're making black garlic. It's the same to uh same technique, like a slow my yard of of all the sugars and proteins in this reduction as it got close to finishing.
+
+[28:12] So how'd you end up did you have to end up putting a vacuum on it or did you just use uh shallower sheets or do it in smaller batches or what? Shallower sheets, smaller batches. The uh the recipe was uh was uh updated a little bit just to kind of minimize the risk of of a whole batch going because you know once it goes bitter, there's no there's no way back from that. There's like yeah, yeah, hard to debitter things. Yeah, it's a de-bitter or deburn.
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+[28:33] That's why you gotta production. That's why you gotta sell the bitter. You'll be like, you know what? This is supposed to taste slightly burnt, supposed to taste bitter. Yeah, maybe New Haven's got a market for uh for our stockpile of burnt tamaris.
+
+[28:43] Maybe like how much do you have? Uh I mean, I don't I don't know exactly how much. Although I think we we were we caught it pretty early on that this was a thing, and then just uh the research development work that went went into it. It's uh yeah, I don't think it's I don't I don't think it's enough to support all the the New Haven uh communities who enjoy their their burnt burnt flavors. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[29:02] You know what though? That's unfair. It's unfair. You need to go to New Haven. Well, I'm kind of scared too now after this, but because this is live too on Patreon.
+
+[29:09] Yeah, but like you gotta go to New Haven, check out some there's some interesting stuff in New Haven. Uh you know, New Haven as uh Nastasia has always said, I'm the I'm the new haven of bosses, right? Right, Stas? I've never said that. I've never said that you said that.
+
+[29:24] Uh anyway, so uh you brought a bunch of stuff to taste. Yeah you want it's open it, it's open it, uh let's open it up. All right. See what's going on here. I have some stuff for for you to taste.
+
+[29:37] Yeah, yeah. By the way, I'll tell I'll say the one that uh that I have. So uh listener, uh Mathman, uh Jonathan Anderson sent us a bunch of syrups from his backyard. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Mathman.
+
+[29:49] And uh, you know what's interesting, I think, here is like you know how when maple syrup is made, like uh it changes over the course of the season, right? It starts out being uh lighter, having less uh solids in it, and then it gets uh progressively darker as it progress in the season. So we have from the same trees, yeah. Three grades, same trees. I thought that'd be a good taste.
+
+[30:10] Are you are you a light, light uh syrup person or darker? No, I like it dark, but not um, you know, like once it's beyond B. I I like it until it gets metallic. Okay. So like at a certain point it gets metallic and that's unpleasant.
+
+[30:25] So I I once bought a whole bunch of it thinking that I was gonna like the even darker grade than B for the bar, and I was like, I don't like this. And then uh he also sent us some birch syrup to taste. And uh the thing about birch syrup I'm interested in is that every time I've had birch syrup, it's been extremely uh high acid, like much higher acid than maple. But let's let's see here. Let's here.
+
+[30:51] Because a cool thing that we do here, just give me a drop right here. Uh a cool thing we do at the restaurant is we'll take birch water, which uh I mean we're getting buckets of birch water now from our friends. Not acidic. No, that's nice. A little rainy.
+
+[31:04] A little bit at the end. Yeah. A little bit, a little bit of a little bit of acidity at the end. Yeah. But this reminds me of the stuff, the stuff that we'll we'll make in Copenhagen.
+
+[31:12] And uh, you know, we'll reduce it to syrup, but what's really cool is if you reduce it and you stop short of a syrup and you match the bricks that you need for a kombucha, you can drop a scoby in there, and then you get like it's kind of like uh like a root beer kombucha, and it's delicious. And we've served it before, but it's like I said, one of those things where that's like the yield is so low on something like that. We did the math and it was like uh like a four percent yield, and we're just boiling pots of water all day. Yeah, yeah, it sounds like a nightmare. And when you said uh drop some scoby in it, it reminded me of that song, uh throw some D's on it.
+
+[31:43] Drop some SCOBY's on it. Just got a birch of a the next great notes the same that's birch. I just wanted to taste it again. Yeah you want to start well here's blonde. All right.
+
+[31:54] Well one well let me what I have so much to taste I don't even know what to do. I wasn't expecting for you to taste it all right explode your palate here but what are we gonna start with? All right let's um let's do this one. What kind of birch do you use in uh in Denmark? What do they have?
+
+[32:07] I only know American birches and I don't know uh which birch uh Jonathan has I'm sh maybe it has sugar birch that would be classic right but you can also use like um I'm not sure what kind of birch we we get but I mean the when they deliver the birch water to us it's in a plastic bucket um someone else is tapping the trees at this time of year and then we uh we just get the the final the final water which is also delicious like birch water ice cold is yeah is really nice. And but like what's the what's the sugar percentage on it? Low, right? Like it's low. Yeah you gotta one or two?
+
+[32:38] Yeah you boil it down quite a bit to get uh any any real bricks reading. But okay so but like but just plain from the tree it still tastes good? Yes. Yeah. Like what do you do you actually use it in the restaurant?
+
+[32:49] What is it whoa what is that one? Uh that's so that's the the forager's vinaigrette. Uh oh so you just you just uh re- remulsified it yeah I mean you you just give it a shake and so this uh this is our rose vinegar which wait so what's in that what's the what's the florally herbal thing and what's going on in here. Yeah it's it's the rose vinegar which uh we sell separately and then it's uh black currant wood oil and uh you say black currant current wood oil. Oil.
+
+[33:15] Yeah. So I mean, obviously we know the black currant fruit. Um, but the the shoots of the plant as it's growing, you know, that we have a lot of farmers who they're growing it for berries, and you have to trim the plant, and then we take the uh all the the twigs and the shoots, and while they're still kind of green on the inside, if you ever split one open, it smells delicious. It's this is like our our answer to olive oil in in Scandinavia. And um we we put the uh we take this the twigs and we we mash them up with uh like a mortar and pestle or uh in larger larger amounts.
+
+[33:45] We'll we'll use some of the machines at Noma Projects to to basically model them. And then they get steamed um in a steam oven overnight. And we we double bag it in uh in plastic sous vide bags because um when I was an intern at Noma in 2004, we were just developing this ingredient, and I learned the hard way why you need to double bag this oil when you put it in the steamer because this was hours of using the smallest mortar and pestle known to man uh to pound this uh black currant wood and put it in bags, and then the next morning you came in and there's oil everywhere. It smelled great. But wait, it just leeches through the bag?
+
+[34:20] Well, it's just the seals failed on the bag. Oh, yeah. Oh, what because they're puffing up a lot? I guess so. I think it's it's puffing up a lot because the uh the water in the it's steamed at uh um relatively high temperature, like nothing over a hundred, but um maybe the the moisture in the branches was causing expansion in the bag and making the seals uh there's also a lot of air in wood, right?
+
+[34:39] Because of all of those vessels. So you're gonna get that stuff's gonna expand. I wonder so you you put it in two bags, but they probably still puff. I wonder like if you could but it I don't know, it's a tough problem. Yeah.
+
+[34:50] Um but this is like something we use every day at the restaurant. This is wait, so so how much so the oil's literally from the wood, it's not an oil flavor. Sorry, you you flavor um grapeseed oil with it. Yeah, yeah. It's uh I mean, God, if we had to press the oil at all.
+
+[35:03] That's the craziest thing. So, like, how many like what kind of ratio are you talking about? What other things have you tried it with? Because there's a lot of very aromatic woods. Like, what other woods have you tried?
+
+[35:10] Uh we've done um what have we done? We've done birch oils before, but those weren't like this is a this is the the one, the wood oil that we use, but we've also done like uh black cherry. Yeah, that's the thing. We don't really get too many cherries in we're we're too far north for like peaches and nectarines and and a lot of cherries. Cherry wood has that smell, or like certain butch birches have a like do you do the winter greeny birches, the ones that have that kind of winter green note?
+
+[35:37] Or like what about like um I like the smell of it's not a Danish, but like uh tulip wood, liriadendon tulip fera, like yellow poplar. Has like kind of like a lemony some people don't like the smell of it, but like the young green leaves, uh I mean the I love I love it. Or like have you ever done just like sassafras, like old school things that people like? Is it good? Yeah, I mean it's it's you definitely get all that all that flavor out of uh out of your out of the wood.
+
+[36:04] And I think we've done like birch wood and you get a lot of bitterness in the oil, so that you can only use so much of it. This is the only one that's been successful in terms of So you chum it up, yeah. The greens the green shoots the this year's twigs. You chum it up, and then like how much oil? One to one ratio.
+
+[36:22] Sometimes sometimes uh two to one. It depends also that we have to like look at the wood and be like, okay, if this is super strong, then we can afford to get it to a two to one. If we need all the flavor we can get it to one to one. If you push it down hard, can you do it in a mason jar or no? There's there's something about the steaming under under a vacuumed bag.
+
+[36:41] I think the vacuum probably pushes the oil into the wood and gives good contact. So you need the vacuuming. Okay. Because we well, we we we we had to do this for NOMA projects, right? So it was a larger amount, and we were trying, like, you know, that's a lot of plastic and and that's a lot of time.
+
+[36:55] Yeah, someone's gotta stick it because oil too, so it'll overflow the bags. You can't walk away from the machines. There's just a lot of time of like closing lid, waiting there, hitting the stop button when it's about to overflow. So we we thought maybe if we put it in the steam kettle at the the temperature of of the oven when we're steaming it and you know, just have it weighed down in the oil, maybe that'll work and it wasn't the same. It was like night and day.
+
+[37:13] So I think it's something about the vacuum that you're pulling. So the vacuum, but also like is the steam kettle totally sealed? Is it one of the ones that totally seals? No, it's not it's open top. It's just that's steam jacketed.
+
+[37:23] Uh so you're blowing a lot of stuff off of it, probably too. So how long then do you have to steam it? Uh you steam it overnight. So like many hours. Yeah.
+
+[37:31] Huh. And do you think the birch would be less bitter if you went shorter or just not enough flavor transfer then? I mean, I think it's I think it's just one of the first things that comes out of the birch is like you you get some pleasant flavor and then it goes like I want to try hickory bark because I do hickory bark in syrup, but I never thought of doing it in it with an oil. Yeah, I mean, you'll have to give it a try and let me know. I guess there's not a lot of hickory in uh in in Copenhagen, that's for sure.
+
+[37:55] Yeah, there's gotta be something we have here. Uh but uh I feel like this is it's something that uh some of our listeners are gonna go try to do for sure. For sure. Uh what do you think, Quinn? Are you uh what do you think?
+
+[38:04] You think this is something that some of our listeners are gonna try to do? I mean, I'm I'm probably gonna try and do it. I just got in touch with the company that does local foraging here. I've got some of their some of their products, but it's really small amount. So I'll try and figure out what uh what makes sense to try as an oil.
+
+[38:26] Yeah, I mean the the I wish I still had my place in Connect because like sassafras there is a weed. You know what I mean? Like all that stuff is a weed. So, like, you know, anyway. Yeah, I mean, it's it's a good technique, it's just a matter of finding the right ingredients to to apply where it's worth the the trouble of of going through the whole process, and then the product is just so good, there's no there's no downside to to like there's no off flavors or anything like that.
+
+[38:51] You know what I mean? Should we go over the next one? Yeah. All right. So uh I'm opening the So how do you make the rose vinegar?
+
+[38:57] But that we I tasted it in the vinaigrette. How is that made? This is um we use Danish uh, I believe it's Danish apple apple balsamic vinegar, and we'll infuse it with forged roses that we so it's a lot of roses and it's all foraged, like it's all wild roses. This is the same, not the roses that you put on the menu, those ones you grow, right? No, no, no.
+
+[39:16] Those are also foraged roses. So the first year we made um uh the rose vinegar, we kind of self-cannialized ourselves where projects needed some for the rose vinegar. We needed some for the the summer season, and then we ended up not having enough roses for for either of them. So, like this is the second run of the the rose vinegar with wild roses because the first run was smaller than we wanted because no one went no one thought to go and look for different spots. It was like, oh, we know where the roses are.
+
+[39:41] Right, but not enough for that. Yeah, exactly. So these the roses, you're doing it after the fermentation, after it's been made vegan. Okay, okay. Yeah, it's an it's an infused vinegar just because uh the the roses over the course of fermentation.
+
+[39:54] If you were to start with fresh roses, the the flavor would be a little bit uh a little bit muddled, I think. All right, so this is called Nord Nordic Shoyu. But for those of you that don't like can't see it, like it looks to be slightly darker, but in the ballpark color of like an American sweet apple cider, unfiltered apple cider. Would you say that's accurate? Yeah, like it's much lighter than uh than a traditional shoyu.
+
+[40:18] Um and it's I mean, m most shoyus are aged for one year plus. This is six months, and it's uh it's a lower salt content, too. You you'll notice like you you just took a sip. And if you would if you were serving this in a Japanese restaurant with sushi, it it would be kind of weird because uh the reduced salt level and because of all these other flavors that we have, there's some fruitiness, there's some a little bit of acidity perhaps, and and it's also unfiltered. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[40:42] Yeah, and it's cloudy. And that's uh kind of how we we work with our ferments at at NOMAs, we'll drop the salt level as as far low as we we can while still maintaining food safety, um, so that you can use more of it without over seasoning your food because salt is kind of in a a cap, right? You if you if you use too much soy sauce, it'll be too salty, even if you like the other flavors, the caramel flavors and dark flavors of soy sauce. Um so this one is but it doesn't have it it definitely has some of that, but it doesn't have any of the kind of the overcooked burny flavors. And it's fava, huh?
+
+[41:13] Yeah, it's fava beans and toasted rice. Is it easier to prep them for this or these are these are dried favas? Okay. Yeah, so we get dried uh dried shelled favas in and we'll uh we'll grow our koji on a mixture of the dried favas and toasted rice and like deeply toasted rice. Um and then it gets mixed with salt and water, and then it'll go for six months.
+
+[41:36] And that's that's how you're tasting it in the bottle. And the cool thing is is after you you press it, you have the uh the maromi or like the solids as well. And we're working currently, um I mean hopefully I don't get in trouble for for saying this on air, but um we're working on something to use the solids as well, like whether it's a seasoning salt or spice mix, because it is it's really delicious. The like as much as I like the shoyu, I find the solids are even more delicious when you when you dry them out and grind them up into a powder. Have you ever done uh rye?
+
+[42:02] So the maromi, the company in up in Mystic, uh, you know, Bob's been on, he does a rye that's just crazy good. A rye shoyu? Mm-hmm. Okay. As an adjunct in, you know what I mean?
+
+[42:13] Uh that it's just so good. Have you guys done that? That seems very Danish. Yeah, we tried. So when I was just starting at NOMA in 2019, um, I arrived midway through this whole trial where they wanted to come up with new shoyus, and the, you know, it's a six-month process, right?
+
+[42:27] So it's not like we start one different type and then we wait six months and say, hmm, I don't like it, let's start another one and wait another six months. So they'd done like like 15 different variations using Emmer and different wheats and barleys and all these grains, and I think rye was one of them. Um actually out of that came the the fava bean shoyu that you're you're tasting right now. That was the best one we had. Um but I think most recently we've uh started using lupins as well.
+
+[42:53] Lupins being um like a pulse from Scandinavia. We get them from Sweden. Very high in uh aren't they very similar to favas though? Like the shape? Yeah, almost like broad bean shape, like exactly, yeah.
+
+[43:04] But uh very like higher in in protein um closer to uh a soybean, but we uh we can't use soybeans in in a soy sauce that we make because I mean it's not that we can't, we just choose not to because you know, shoyu is at least the shoyu that we learned to make was Japanese, and and if we were to just replicate a a Japanese product in Copenhagen, like that's not your shtick. Yeah, what's the point of having this massive restaurant with a fermentation lab if I'm just gonna replicate someone else's recipes? Because other people are very good at that. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[43:33] Um you ever have any problems with the like uh the people who can't have favas? Like anyone ever, I've never actually got fava allergy? Well, yeah, favism, it's like this is why like the theory was back in the day that like you know, certain people like Plato would be like, watch out for the fava beans, because there's a genetic, and I think it's like weird because it's like i I think it's mostly occurs in areas where favas are endemic, where genetically you can't have it. Like you can't digest uh fava beans. I don't know exactly what happens to you.
+
+[44:02] If you're you don't know if it's like when they eat it immediately it happens or like I think it's similar to like uh if you know if you see celiacs with with with gluten, it's like something F's you up inside like like hardcore. You know what I mean? But uh I don't know. I mean we like we we get uh guest reports on all of our guests at the restaurant, and we we do get like all the all the usual allergies like gluten-free, no dairy, vegan, vegetarian, so on and so forth. But then occasionally you'll get like a no fava bean or they say that you say yeah.
+
+[44:31] Hey, you want to try this one? Have you had this one? Is this the colatura dialichi? No, but no, no, no. That's the thing.
+
+[44:36] That's the problem. These guys don't know how to market. So this is the people mitica, the Spanish people are trying to do an actual fish sauce. So not just like pressings from anchovies, but like this is this is the closest Western product I've had to um smell good. Yeah, right, to like Ishiri and to the Garam replications I've had, the Roman ones, like the gut, the gut-based ones.
+
+[44:59] Good, huh? Mm-hmm. So it's it's expensive. It's called Florida Garum. Mitica makes it, but it's like to me, that's that meaty.
+
+[45:09] So my my two favorite fish sauces are the you know, commercially available ones, are but they can't even get them anymore, are the um the the Ishikawa one, the ishiri, the squid one, and the ayu fish sauce. Have you had the IU? No, but I've had Iyu fish. Yeah, is it is the sauce kind of bitter from the organs or anything like that? No, no.
+
+[45:31] I don't know. They it's a new, it's new, right? I mean 20 years. In other words, it's not like it's not like a heritage product, you know what I mean? But this ayu fish sauce is crazy, but now you can't get any more.
+
+[45:39] This is good, right? Yeah, it's delicious. I have had the the Yashiri in uh in Ishikawa. I have because so we were in Kyoto the past year. Um and I had a research trip.
+
+[45:44] I went out to Noto Peninsula where um sadly they had it the the earthquake in Japan recently was kind of situated in in Noto. But uh I was visiting a uh a gentleman over there who he's Australian, his name is Ben Flat, and he married into like Japanese fermentation royalty. Like his wife's family makes is are like the the key keepers of of these Japanese fermentation styles. So I visited him, and uh, you know, I guess people are really are asking him a lot for for tours and stuff, so he like he doesn't respond to most of them. You kind of have to ask several times and and eventually he's like, okay, they're actually interested.
+
+[46:22] But even then I went and visited and it was just uh like a tasting of the the Ashiri that he makes there. It was so good. So good. He gave me a bottle at the end. I was like, oh my god, thank you so much.
+
+[46:30] So good that stuff. Um, but I didn't see the actual fermentation chamber or how he made it or anything like that. It was just uh just a conversation, and and that's because they're so protective of this product. Um apparently people would visit and then they would try to make something similar back where they come from, and they would call it Shiri, and then that kind of dilutes the the actual special product that's made in that particular part of the world. Um but I can see why people want to do it because you just can't freaking buy this stuff.
+
+[46:56] Yeah, yeah. I mean it's I mean, you arguably you can't even make this kind of stuff without uh years and generations of uh of expertise. Uh but uh I'm going back this autumn because we're doing another pop-up in Kyoto, and um he's already agreed to to let me come in and for then spend a couple weeks and just see see everything he does over there. Which is so reasonable. Okay, so so what am I taking what am I tasting now?
+
+[47:16] I'm gonna give you the the beef garm because uh the last time because after you ate at Noma, I gave you some stuff to bring back, and one of them was the beef garment solids. And um Yeah, but I didn't try I don't think I tried the actual liquid, right? You didn't try the liquid. I gave you the solids because you had just had uh um uh the gentleman from ham hamburger America, uh George George Moss. Yeah you do he has a restaurant up now.
+
+[47:36] Yeah, yeah. I've I've uh been meaning to try it on this this very busy week. I hear that uh he so he just put on the uh what's it called the uh limited menu uh the butter burger. Butter burger that's uh Milwaukee, Wisconsin? Is that where's that from?
+
+[47:51] I can't remember. Yeah. Because uh he does what the classic hamburger and then the smash burger, and then there's like the slot for the well most of his classics are smash, but it's with or without onions, right? Yeah, yeah. So he does the uh yeah, so he's got the he's got the butter burger on.
+
+[48:04] But uh you know, it's one with just like a pro I forget where it's from, but just a preposterous amount of butter. Yeah, like an absurd amount of butter. Which, you know, I'm kind of for. Mm, this is good. So why don't you talk about the talk about this?
+
+[48:14] What's the process on this guy? Yeah, so um, and then um Quinn's mentioned this uh on the air, I think during the episode where you tasted the solids. Uh so when we say garum, it's it's slightly different from the traditional version of the ferments where uh it's fish and you're using the the enzymes in the fish stomachs to uh to break down the uh the proteins in the fish flesh. So when we make koji at the restaurant, you get those similar similar enzymes to the fish stomachs, except Koji is a much more gentle flavor, right? Like it's not as um funky.
+
+[48:42] Are you using one of the kojies that has a little bit of an acid cake? Because I noticed a little acidity in the back of this, or is that just me? Um I it might be it might be you, but we do get um it's not like a luchuensis strain where it tastes like lemon, the carry or anything like that. That is that just might be the uh the fermentation results from from it's beef, it's koji, it's water and salt, and that's it. Three months uh in a hot room at 60 degrees Celsius, which I'm not sure.
+
+[49:06] I I didn't come prepared, I don't know what that is in Fahrenheit. 60, 140. No, sorry. Yeah, 140. I mean, I I have to believe you at this point.
+
+[49:13] I I think that's a good thing. That's one of the that's one of the magic numbers because that's one of the US that's one of the like that's one of the safe hold numbers. Uh yeah. 6140. Yeah, the That's why I didn't even think about it.
+
+[49:20] That's why I had to that's why I I said it first and then had to think about it afterwards because it's what 60140. You know what I mean? Uh it's like, you know, uh minus four, mini you know, minus four minus twenty. You know what I mean? Like you just got you just got uh like a reflex reaction to those kinds of numbers.
+
+[49:35] Yeah, yeah. Like they're just in your head uh for forever. Ta taste this, you know, taste I'm trying to figure out what it is it that makes me feel like it's got like a little bit of that makes your mouth water like like acids do. Not saying it tastes acidic, but you mean it's got like a little The Make Your Mouth Water that that would just that could just be the salt in the umami released from the the beef as it first. A little bit of the umams.
+
+[50:00] The end. Only now, at the end. Yeah, I think that's some of that is just part of the the myard. Like it's it's th uh three months at at a very warm temperature, so you get some of the browning uh happening over the course of that time. So Simon says or asks, uh question.
+
+[50:18] Do you have any advice for safely fermenting honey with garlic and or ginger? Thinking here in terms of ensuring no botulism toxin is present either in the honey or in the pieces of garlic and or ginger. Um I would and raw raw garlic and raw ginger. That's that's that's tough because uh generally anything anaerobic you are concerned about about botulism. Um we've we had uh we had this topic on on hand last summer because we were trying to preserve artichokes without uh cooking them all the way through.
+
+[50:49] Like you get those tin d chokes that are like mush. Um and I was working with RL Johnson on this technique where it was uh like a a low temp pasteurization with just the bare minimum amount of acid. I mean, if if your honey is by chance has uh a pH low enough, you might be able to doctor it a little bit with um some vinegar or or or like uh an acid uh to bring the pH down because acidity does does uh prevent uh botulism to toxins from developing. This is uh this is uh mathman's w uh walnut syrup, but it's interesting because it doesn't taste like a bark syrup. What is it?
+
+[51:26] What the hell is it? That's good, but yeah, it doesn't taste like it came from a tree. Doesn't taste like a bark. Yeah. Is it from the nut?
+
+[51:38] So like I've always wanted to do the the thing where you make like uh smash up like hickory nuts and then just like make a milk from it and then strain out all the salads, but I wonder is this from walnut the nut? Is this from walnuts? Maybe the shells of the nut or or something like that. Yeah, I mean, I've never tasted walnut bark. I wonder what kind of walnut it is.
+
+[51:58] Weird. Maybe maybe he'll he'll get back to us in in the comments on this episode and let us know. Yeah, but anyways, I am curious. So I want to do a uh a sweet in between in between our salties here. So what would happen if you tried to if you opened up and just tried to salt cure an artichoke like a caper?
+
+[52:16] What would happen? I think the uh is it called uh tur turger turger pressure? Uh the what would keep the artichoke kind of upright and and and stiff. I think you'd lose a lot of that and it would uh I mean for sure it'd be extremely salty and you'd have to to like water leach it afterwards. Yeah.
+
+[52:33] Um I wonder whether it would be any good or whether it would suck. I mean, that's that's all uh speculative at this point. Like it, you know, if it's if I've had a lot of things that cultures say are are really delicious, and and I've like that's that's that's not so nice. But sometimes like what do they make channel out of? Because it doesn't taste like artichokes.
+
+[52:44] Do they like I know it's artichoke, but like what is it? Is it like not the actual artichoke? Is it something else? Because it doesn't taste like artichokes. Tastes delicious.
+
+[52:58] It doesn't taste like artichokes. I feel like this is your realm of expertise, Dave. I am. It's odd that Dave Arnold is asking me uh. Well, I mean, I just don't know like a cocktail.
+
+[53:06] Because there's so many things that like, for instance, like rhubarb, obviously, most of the rebarbaros aren't made with the part that we eat. Doesn't taste like that either. You know what I mean? So I don't know with artichokes how they do it. Those are made with with the roots or I'm not sure.
+
+[53:21] Well, we'll dry it and stuff's fantastic. As an infusion, rhubarb root, dried rhubarb root, mwah, beautiful. Love it. We just got uh I mean I showed you the the new uh rotovap we got from Buki that that brought us into the the modern age because the old one was like on its last legs. The kids nowadays, man.
+
+[53:38] I visited people and like everyone now has the vacuum system that like auto-goes on temperature with the temperature thing. So they're gonna be a little bit more than a foam sensor, so it never goes into the Oh my god. Back in the day, you had to sit there and watch the ferment, uh the uh watch the distillation line and keep lowering the vacuum by hand. You had to watch boilovers. I mean, it's a whole new world, better world.
+
+[54:02] Like why should you you shouldn't have to do all that stuff. But then you start relying on it, and then next thing you know, the it's like the foam sensor uh fails. You're gonna want a spoon for this one. The foam sensor doesn't do its job, and then you know, we're back having that conversation with Nastasia about whether it's okay to have an intern lick the inside of the uh the condensation tube to see if it's still spicy from your uh habanero distillate. Yeah, Nastasia says no, but only because it's in public normally, right, Stas?
+
+[54:26] I mean, I don't know. Nope. Yeah. Okay. Uh wait.
+
+[54:29] So this is an XO sauce. Uh it has the look of the of the can't mention chili crunch, but it's not. Oh yeah, that's a thing. Yeah. I couldn't believe that that was happening.
+
+[54:44] Um, so yeah, this is this is uh our vegan exo. So there's no traditionally, obviously XO will have uh scallop and jinhua ham and and shrimps in it. Um but the reason we called this an XO is I mean it has none of those ingredients in it, but the texture we thought was very similar, where um you're you're chewing it, uh it's uh it's oily, but there's chunks in it, and then over time it'll develop in your mouth as well. So this is using um uh a dried tomato, some uh Madagascar pepper, and um one of the one of these ingredients that we had made for us in Japan, actually, it's called uh pumpkin bushi. And it was uh a katsubuchi producer in Japan who uh he had to secretly uh start trying to smoke and dry these these pumpkins in the exact same fashion as a katsubushi.
+
+[55:32] And then we've started using them at Noma uh for the past couple of years. And it's this it comes like this this stiff hard rod of uh pumpkin. Stiff hard rod of pumpkin. And uh and we we grade it, we put it in this sauce, but we also use it in spice mixes and uh and uh to grate it on top of a lot of our dishes. Since we're running low on time, let's go straight from super light to super dark on the maple.
+
+[55:55] Have you done the blonde yet? You have blonde. I have blonde, where's blonde? Blonde is here. This one.
+
+[56:00] Yeah. Okay. So what else? They're gonna they're gonna rip us off the air in four minutes. So I've got to figure out everything we're gonna talk about.
+
+[56:09] All right. Let's uh and then I'll I guess we'll end with the uh let's do hot sauce after this because that's that's something I feel like is uh there's a common thread and there's uh there's some context for that as well. But that is light. It is light. I like the darker one more.
+
+[56:24] Have you tried the dark one yet? Yeah, yeah, I I tried that one. Um yeah, I mean I'm always pro dark. I mean, the thing is is that um this is why like a lot of people like going back to Kyoto, right? Like the chefs they're very pro subtlety.
+
+[56:44] Like if I'm gonna have maple, I don't really want it to be subtle. I wanted to kick my. Yeah, one in my face. But and you know, it's kind of like I'm such an American. You know what I mean?
+
+[56:53] I want stuff in my face all the time. You know what I mean? Does that make me bad? Yeah, well then hopefully likes maybe hopefully you like the hot sauce then because I feel like that's probably the most intense of the uh the things that we sell right now. So where you're where so while you're pouring this, are you from Toronto the city or from the outskirts?
+
+[57:08] No, I'm from Toronto proper. Okay. I mean, shout out to some of our our colleagues at Restaurant Noma who tell the guests that they're from Toronto, that they're not actually from Toronto. Um yeah, I I grew up in in North York. Um had I been a few years older or a few years uh or Dave Zilbert a few years younger, we would have actually gone to the same high school at the same time.
+
+[57:26] These are good corn yuzu hot sauce. How do you what do you think of the texture? Because this is kind of uh a point of contention with us. Do you like the uh that it's kind of pulpy and uh has chunks in it, or were we you're more of like a Frank's red hot, like straight out of the bottle. It's it's runny and and uh and more liquid.
+
+[57:43] I am across I I can do many textures of hot sauce, right? So like what I use at home mostly, mostly at home, I don't use sauce at this point. I use um either this uh I don't think they're actually from Taiwan, but they're based on this kind of Taiwanese like salted fermented chili in massive quantities, so that's chunky. And then Lao Gun Ma, which of course is oily and that's my those are my current two. I move around, you know what I mean?
+
+[58:13] So like I like any texture. Why not why do people want it to be liquid? Uh just some people use hot sauce different ways, right? You think of like Tabasco, it's it's pretty pretty watery, and they're kind of showering it over their food, and and this is kind of like in between a liquid and uh a puree. And I I personally like the fact that as you chew it, you because there's a little bits of corn in there, there's a development in flavor, and this the spice is a slow build as well.
+
+[58:35] We do two versions. One is the extra spicy, which is what you're having now, and then we did a milder version um for people who just can't take as much heat. But I think we should definitely try to do uh an even spicier version because I think you can use it. Like a like a like a kill you version? Yeah, like sneak a sneak a habanero into the assembly line at some point when no one's looking.
+
+[58:51] I wonder was what what peppers you're using? Uh these are grilled jalapeno uh sorry, grilled habaneras. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, so like uh that time for I didn't tell us on air or not, but like I was doing a cocktail and my cousin came over and he used the wrong thing as the as like adding a half ounce, and it was the decanted. Speaking of liquids, so you know, uh Pucker Butt, the South Carolina people who do the Reaper, the that so like their one of their sauces they didn't Xanthan it, so it's separated into solids and liquids, and I decanted the stuff off the top of the liquids to use as like a mega spice by drops.
+
+[59:28] And he just dumped it into the batch and I was like, well, let me try it, see what happens. I was like, ah! Yeah, I've I've eaten one of those boot jeluchia chilies too much. It's it's too much. Too much.
+
+[59:36] Yeah, it put me out of out of uh commission for 24 hours. Well, listen, uh, Kevin, this is an embarrassment of uh Rich as you've had me taste. I appreciate coming on. Uh, all love to uh you and the Noma crew. Check out uh Noma projects, where should they look that up?
+
+[59:50] Well, if since they're we're live on Patreon right now, if anyone's listening, we'll be at Superiority Burger in about three hours. Ooh. Working with Brooks on some delicious things. You know what? Brooks, his French fries, his new French fries, very good.
+
+[1:00:01] Looking forward to tasting. Yeah, very good. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Enthusiasts, Dave Arnold, host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, News Dance Studios. Joined as usual with John right behind me. How are you doing, John? Doing great, thanks. Yeah, back from Belgium.
+
+[0:23] Nice to have you. Nice to have you. You got Joe Hazenrock in the panels. What's up? Hey man, thanks for flashing up mine.
+
+[0:28] Oh yeah. Over there in Los Angeles, we have Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing? I'm good. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[0:37] We have some stuff to talk about because you apparently went to some sort of amazing concert. It might not be fool related, but you know what? Uh upper upper left, we got uh Quinn. Quinn's uh back uh on the show, hopefully, uh, you know, like uh all the time now. How you doing, Quinn?
+
+[0:51] Yeah. Yeah, I'm I'm doing uh we do not have unfortunately uh Jackie Molecules because he's uh on his way back from Coachella being the fancy, the fancy, fancy, fancy music man that he is. But today's special guest on the show is David Kong, the founder of Glass Van, the very first, as uh far as I know, the very first uh direct to consumer DTC uh glassware company that is all like hand blown, which we'll get into in a minute. Welcome. Nice, nice to be here.
+
+[1:27] Yeah, yeah, great, great. So this is the portion of the show where we uh just discuss kind of you know what's happened in the past week or so. Most of the time it's supposed to be food related or and or beverage related, but it doesn't have to be. So anyone got anyone got anything from the past week? Nothing.
+
+[1:42] Oh, come on, you jerk. So I know my I know my man John was in Belgium, so what do you got? I ate a lot of food. I've had French fries with every meal for the past week. Did you go to that place?
+
+[1:54] Because you were in Ghent, right? Did you go to that place that's run by that Michelin Star Rider? I just did, yes. It's pretty good. I went there last time too.
+
+[1:59] Is it still on point? Yeah, yeah, still very good. Still very good. Like great sauces. He's got the best.
+
+[2:05] Yeah, he's got good mayonnaise. He's got a great mayonnaise game. I appreciate anyone with a good mayonnaise game. He's got a great mayonnaise game. And his potatoes are good.
+
+[2:11] I don't remember which do you remember which potato he uses? I don't. I was too busy shoveling them into my face. And if they don't have that like counter with the kettle and the second counter up top, I'm like, you're you're an idiot. It's a joke.
+
+[2:31] You're it's like, it's like, you know, it's I don't know, it's like oh, I'm a race car driver and they're on a moped. You're like, no, you're not. You know what I mean? No, you're no you're not. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[2:42] It's like, it's like they have developed God's way of doing that. And if you're gonna do it, do it. If you're not gonna do it, don't do it. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[2:50] I agree. Same with the waffle irons. It's like that was so good. Oh my God. So you went also to to Brussels.
+
+[2:57] You went to Maison d'Endo. Oh my god. Oh my god. So let me ask you this. So for those of you that don't know, uh uh what Dandoi, right?
+
+[3:04] Maison. Dandois. Right. Uh so like there's two, right? There's the inside, which is mainly a speckaloo game, right?
+
+[3:12] Where you can get the giant. Has you ever bought one of those giant cookies? My dad used to when we were kids. Like around Christmas. Did they ever get home in one piece?
+
+[3:21] How do they package those? Rarely. They're like five feet tall. Yeah, they're big. Oh, but we didn't get those huge, huge ones, but we got other big ones, yeah.
+
+[3:28] They're like, they're like, they're like an eighth of an inch or like thick and like feet tall. I don't know, and they're crispy as hell. So I don't know how it's not like a lavash or something, you can just roll it up. I don't know how the heck anyone gets it home. They're delicious though.
+
+[3:40] Very good. But the outdoor game, the outdoor with the Liege and the Brussels waffles, money money in the bank. And so uh did you did of course you got both. Yeah, obviously. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[3:50] It's great. Just with powdered sugar. Yeah, yeah. You know how you know a place is good, uh, David? From waffles?
+
+[3:56] If if they're run if they're running, if they're running with buckets of uh of the battery and running with big trays of like the liige balls, that's when you know it's gonna be good because they don't even have time. They have to run stuff into it. That's how much they're pumping out of there. Yeah. Am I wrong about that?
+
+[4:13] Yeah, I don't know. It's great. And you brought now, uh, I asked before the show, uh, David said uh Kong said he's not a huge fan of spicy mustard, but John has brought, and I'm holding it up to the camera. If you're on uh Patreon, you can see on the camera, this is God's mustard. So that's yeah.
+
+[4:31] Yeah, this is like, you know, like this is the look, there are different kinds of mustard, like right. So, like, you know, you maybe you like a sweet mustard, maybe you like a grainy mustard, but for what this mustard is, it it's the one. Yeah. That's it. That's fine.
+
+[4:52] My ye can suck it. You know what I mean? Like I've been I've been to their store and it's great, and I like their stuff and you know, the British stuff and Pomery and all that. It's all great. It's all fine.
+
+[5:04] It's all got a long history, blah, blah, blah. But like this is first of all, they just started shipping it after like 200 years. I don't even know if it's them officially. Yeah, someone's buying it and shipping it, which was the business idea you wanted to do. Yeah.
+
+[5:19] It's it tastes a little bit. Here, that's yours. And Joe, you want a little bit? I will, please. Yeah.
+
+[5:25] I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna buy a crap ton of liverwurst, is what I'm gonna do. Nice. Um, but this stuff is itself and it's not something else. Yeah.
+
+[5:34] You know, like they say in the Deer Hunter movie, this isn't something else. This is this. Yeah. Yeah. My my nostrils are cleared.
+
+[5:44] Oh, yeah. That's a great mustard. And uh, did you get the old lady or did you get the sun? Which is not old. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[5:49] The sun. Yeah. Wow. He's uh he's a lot uh more mellow than the than the I'm assuming the mom. I'm assuming that's the mom.
+
+[5:57] He was pretty chill. Yeah. Remember, folks, when you buy mustard from these people, they give it to you in a glass jar, but they put a plastic wrap over it for fear that metal will touch the mustard. This person lives in perpetual fear of people touching her mustard with metal. Yeah, it's like her biggest fear.
+
+[6:16] You know what I'm saying? True. Yeah. Yeah. They even saw little wooden spoons at the store.
+
+[6:20] That's how they want you to ladle it out. Yeah, yeah. I said this before, there's only one horribly disappointing thing about uh Ghent. And uh, and it's horrible. Those little cone-shaped, gummy candies.
+
+[6:34] Oh, the I hit them to the um Oh my god. Uh you know why you've forgotten them. They're awful. Yeah. It's terrible.
+
+[6:43] There's it's no reason for them to exist. There's so yeah, they're yeah, they've been around for a long time. Yeah. Yeah. They have less flavor than a poorly dried persimmon.
+
+[6:52] They are the worst. Yeah, I'm not a fan. Yeah. Not a fan. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[6:56] Yeah. Anyway. Uh well, I'm sorry you had to go to a funeral, but thank you so much for the grand size of mustard. And you know, I think I might be eating dinner alone today, which means I will be eating all liverwurst. I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna go get me some uh okay.
+
+[7:09] Question. For those that like pumper nickel, do you like American pumper nickel or do you like like old school German dense as hell full full corn pumper nickel or both for different reasons? I'm not sure I've had the real stuff. Oh, really? Oh, it's good.
+
+[7:28] It is good. It's cooked for a long time. It goes dark because it's cooked at a low temperature for a long, long time. And so it like self-myhards and goes brown. They don't put caramel color in the actual original stuff.
+
+[7:39] So it's like is like the the Germans the original, I'm assuming. Yeah, I mean, well, that whole area. So I mean, so is it have the consistency of the like the pretzel bun? No, no, no, no. It's like a brick.
+
+[7:51] And and you slice it like super thin. And like the the grains are like just barely cracked, and it just holds together. Uh never had it then. Sour because they fermented for a long time. Good.
+
+[8:02] You like that style, right, John? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Did you get any uh for yourself uh syrup de liège while you were over there? I absolutely did, yes.
+
+[8:09] Yeah, man. Like I have to say, I know I'm a lover of the I only went there once, but like of all the tiny countries, it is a tiny country that packs a lot of food. Can I say that? Yeah. No, no, it really is.
+
+[8:21] Yeah. I had uh my first boulet liégeois, so that's a sauce base, or so it's a meatball dish. I think it was veal and pork cooked in a sauce uh that's heavily seasoned with the sirop liage, so it's like a like a game sauce, almost like you know, with the pears and the prunes and all that stuff. And it's just a lot of gravy, a lot of onions, juniper, uh Sardover French fries, and it was so freaking delicious. So so good.
+
+[8:46] You missed this last week, John, but uh Kev Kevin Jung from Noma was on, and yes, I stole all the Noma stuff that he brought, but uh I'll bring you some, and especially because of this this uh this mustard that you got. But Jack described, and Nastasia, you were there too, right? He described what's the largest meatball that you think would be pleasant? Uh baseball. Hmm.
+
+[9:10] All right. That's big. That's still big. What do you what do you think? What about you, David?
+
+[9:14] You meatball. The carbone meatballs, what I think. How big are how big are they? They're pretty big. Yeah.
+
+[9:19] Like, I don't know if you it's like that big. Yeah, it's probably a baseball. Like a hand, like you had like a handball size in your hand. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tennis bowl.
+
+[9:26] Yeah. So, like, but how big how big were these ones? They were bigger than a softball, Jack said, right? Like big. Nastasia doesn't remember.
+
+[9:35] She doesn't care. Uh, but I will say, Nastasia, since I know you went to an amazing concert, it's not food related. I know you just had like homemade chicken tendies before you went to the concert, but what concert did you go to that you think I should go to? This actually relates to you, J. Well, you I I'm only gonna talk about it if you actually go.
+
+[9:53] What the hell does that mean? How first of all, we have to talk about it now. I would like to go, but I don't know if I'm gonna go. This is a radio show. Like you talk it's not about me.
+
+[10:00] You talk about this, you talk about this band like every month, probably on the radio show. Yeah. So like if you don't go, I'll be really like it's it's it's unfair that we have to listen to you talk about this band and they're gonna be in New York. I'm trying to get you to talk about it, and you won't. You're just talking about the mechanics of talking about it.
+
+[10:21] I want you to commit to going. All right, so I went to see a perfect a perfect circle. That's not the band that I would talk about, but yes. Who else is playing that day? Uh and they were the and Primus opened for them.
+
+[10:35] Les Claypool. So two winemakers, right? Les Claypool from Claypool Vineyards and uh Maynard from what's Maynard's tool related winery called in Arizona? Uh uh anyway. I don't remember.
+
+[10:51] Do you did you uh David, do you have them on your on your list? You gotta get them on your list. I gotta get Arizona on my list. Like, oh, you're not in Arizona. You shipped Arizona, no, no one we ship we ship to every corner of the earth, but we don't have any.
+
+[11:03] I don't think we have many clients in Arizona. Like restaurant clients. Yeah, but these guys, like I bet you anything. First of all, like he's a huge weirdo. Like, I'm sure he would just appreciate the idea that you could buy these like hand blown glasses that would get shipped to him.
+
+[11:17] Same with Claypool. You know what I mean? Like, I bet you both of them would enjoy the concept. No, what do you think, Stas? Yeah, I think that they probably aren't approached by like really high-end people in general.
+
+[11:30] You know, well, I mean, the thing about the thing about glass fan is it's supposed to be like, well, let's just get into it. Well, we we I still have some things I I I didn't talk about from cooking this week, but like isn't your whole value proposition, right? Is you don't have to spend infinity to get a hand blown glass. And if correct me if I'm wrong, you started this because you did uh you were kind of like gray market importing Zaltos. Uh I wasn't importing it, but I was using it.
+
+[12:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you weren't you selling them to like like your friends like on the shirt. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, you were like, you know, you were like, you're like, I'm the half prizalto guy. You know what I mean?
+
+[12:10] Like so, I mean Well, it's because like to make the shipping work, you had to buy like 24 or something at a time. Uh, because it was being like FedExed over from the UK or France. And yes, I didn't need like 24 Zaltos, so I like offloaded half of them to someone else. Going back to bases, I wanted to do that when back when I was a bass player, there was a bass I really wanted, but I wanted to become a distributor, but I had to buy like 10 of them. Yeah.
+
+[12:35] And I couldn't quite get 10 people to sign on to get that to base so I could become a quote unquote guitar store. And then you know what I mean? But anyway. Um speaking of Zaltos, you know, I remember, hey, Stas, you remember this? At Sambar, when we started Booker and Dax uh the bar, we had Libby's and they had Zaltos.
+
+[12:56] Just to show you what they thought about cocktails versus their wine program. You know what I mean? Oh my god. Listen, this they have not found the the trash closet that they can't shove Nastasi and I in. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[13:12] It's like it's like I mean, no offense to the Libby Corporation, right? They make a sturdy glass. But uh yeah, yeah. Zalto. Uh and even that's relatively recent, right?
+
+[13:25] When did the Zalt when did the Zalto uh phenomenon happen? I think the company was started in 2008. Right. Um, and in the US, I would say it really started taking off in the mid 2010s, I would say. Yeah.
+
+[13:37] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's when I was short history. So like people my age, like it wasn't part of our like growing up lexicon, but like the people like you know, generation or so younger than me. Zalto, Zalto.
+
+[13:50] Zalto. Well, I I I knew they had something because I I had a box of Zaltos and I was going up an elevator, and it's just some random person was like, Oh, I love those glasses. Man. So I knew like you could build a nice brand selling glassware. New York is a snobby place.
+
+[14:04] It is. You know, and it's our number one city. Yeah, that's probably why. I mean, like, I'm not saying by the way. What I mean is is that like I I I appreciate good good glassware, I appreciate good things.
+
+[14:14] But it's like, you know, in New York, you could walk. Any random person could be talking about like and it's it didn't used to be like this. In the 90s, you didn't have like, you know, 20-year-old people walking around talking about like how many Michelin-starred restaurants they went to in general. And I hear this crap on the street all the time. I just don't know.
+
+[14:33] I mean, it's good, it's good. It's good, I guess, but it's just weird to me. Uh so what did I do for did you cook anything this week, David? Or drink anything interesting? Well, speaking of Belgium, I just bought 24 canteons.
+
+[14:48] Nice. Yeah. All right. Did you go to the brewery or not this time around? Yeah, I have to.
+
+[14:53] Yes. Not enough. Never enough, but yes, no, it's good. Yeah. I love that kind of thing.
+
+[14:58] Oh, and I had uh uh this beer code Oval. It's like this uh Montr no Quebec beer. It's like a kind of like a canteen, but from Quebec. It it was awesome. It was nuts.
+
+[15:08] And I had it in Toronto of all places. Oh, really? I haven't been I haven't been to Quebec or Montreal in 30 years. Oh, yeah. You should go.
+
+[15:16] So I was I had no money at the time. We were just pounding Boreal at uh because they still have that beer. Yes, yeah, they do. Yeah, yeah. Um, so uh I was cooking and uh I was using some of my I didn't I can't find so Kevin when he came, John, last week, brought a um he brought me the pork scorer, the Danish pork scorer.
+
+[15:38] Okay. But now he's he's like he's like, you know, you don't want to just do it with like you know the same cuts that everyone uses, you want to find pork neck. Right. And I can't find pork neck. It's like very fatty, right?
+
+[15:49] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really nice. But I can't find it. Who's who serves it? Like, or what like I guess you can collar, but who bones it out?
+
+[15:54] I can't find it at my local butcher stores. I gotta find a place in New York City that sells boned out pork neck or collar so that I because I I want to use it on a fatty cut first. I don't want to do like loin or some trust. Have you heard of this part called like secretto? No.
+
+[16:10] It's I I think that's why it's called secreto, because like no one knows about it. And it I don't know if it might be from the neck, but it's it's very fatty. It tastes really nice. Well, you know, yeah. What?
+
+[16:20] Maybe we can talk through La Frito, because get it in, get it in. By the way, I don't know if you know this, David, but John has uh is a chef at a wine bar, so we you know we discussed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll discuss uh we'll discuss uh wine wine glasses in a minute. So anyway, so uh Kevin handed us uh so I'm gonna the whole trick with the the Danish pork is they score the skin and then they crisp it and then you can slice through the scores and it's nice and it renders out.
+
+[16:45] It's beautiful. But uh he gave me a bunch of number products, including Dashi RDX, which are which is Audashi RX, which is their like kind of like seasonal stuff. And uh so I made a whole bunch of mashed potatoes using my garden guardian serviceware. So for those of you that I haven't talked about it in a while, but that's true. I haven't talked about it in a while, John.
+
+[17:01] Yep, I'm allowed. It was it was a uh company that made aluminum wear in Los Angeles from uh the 1920s to the like I guess they went out of business in the in the mid 50s, and it's all aluminum. Stuff that's before the war had uh an aluminum lid, and then during the war they moved to a glass lid because um, you know, aluminum shortages, and they stay with glass. So any post war uh World War II, any post war like guardian service has like a glass lid on it. And the whole idea is they seal really well, and aluminum's an amazing conductor of heat.
+
+[17:33] And so they were one of the people who were pushing waterless cooking. So waterless cooking was cooking uh and it's a you know a was a fad from late, maybe late, like I would say started getting really popular in the early 1900s and stayed popular until about World War II. And um it's only cooked with the water that's in the product, you don't add water to it. So you put the potatoes into the vessel, put the lid on, you bring it up until you just get steam on the top of the lid, and then you turn it all the way down and let the potatoes cook through all the way, and then you rice them with. I use a I use a Bamax uh I don't I I don't actually like the Bamex mixer.
+
+[18:13] I think it's garbage. I hate it. But uh it's got uh a ricer that you can't get in America. You can only get it from European sources, and that's the best potato masher that God's ever made. You know what I mean?
+
+[18:24] It's because you ever use one of these? Do you know food mills? You know how much food mills suck? Do you hate food mills like I hate? Yeah, right, right.
+
+[18:34] Well, so like so like food mills, everyone's like, oh, food mills the way to make a mashed potato, or pushing it through a Tammy if you're a real if you really hate it. Yeah, oh my god. Well, you know, he's dead, so he doesn't even do it anymore. So anyway, so like the the uh you take the ricer and it just it's it's a powered food mill basically, but you just push it down through it, and then I don't use butter, I use cream. What do you think about that, John?
+
+[18:56] Not both, nope, but cream. I mean, do you? I think butter should be in there, but that's why it's delicious. Yeah, but I just add more cream. I want it to be like light, and then Dashi RDX and some Yondu, even though they will not sponsor the show, those weasels.
+
+[19:10] Oh, that's too bad. You know why? We don't our contact is gone. Uh it's a delicious product, though. It was a great product, yeah.
+
+[19:16] Anyway, oh, by the way, uh, before I uh go to oh, oh, so what else? What else did I make? So I made mashed potatoes, and then I made a uh a version of shrimp clementsau, which is the um uh Dookie Chase uh dish. But I first of all, okay, listen, most shrimp that you buy is freshwater farmed shrimp, which is relatively flavorless. It's fine, it's not a bad product.
+
+[19:42] It's relatively flavor. It's no, it's no uh, it's no what do you call them? Acrevice gris or whatever you call those little suckers. Yeah, covet yeah, covet gris. They're so expensive.
+
+[19:51] It's like 70 euros a kilo now for them peeled. It's crazy. But the real Clemenceau is made with actual like wildcock golf shrimp, which are good, right? But I mean you I don't have a source of that. So I made it with Langustine tails instead.
+
+[20:03] And so, and here's how here's how I did it. So also, like the real Clemenceau has crispy potatoes, but instead of doing crispy potatoes, I served it on the mashed potatoes, right? So I made these mashed potatoes with the Guardian service ware. Then I took uh mushrooms, I hit the mushrooms with uh wine and butter, and I steamed them down in the wine, butter, salt, uh, pepper, garlic. And as soon as everything evaporated down and they were starting to sizzle up, I threw in guess what?
+
+[20:29] Pearl onions that were frozen. Thank you. Because now I'm an adult and I'm never gonna touch a uh raw pearl onion, you know, a uh regular pearl onion again. Threw in the package of pearl onions, sweated those out. Once those started to color up a little bit, threw in the peas, and then worn the Langstein tails, chak chak, chak, chak chak, you know, correct the seasoning on the mashed potatoes.
+
+[20:50] Very good. Yep, very good. Sounds good. Delicious. All right, so that was my that was my week.
+
+[20:55] That's the week, that's the the book of the week in review. Uh do you know uh Nastasia told me that at Primus they had a bartender on stage, and whenever they weren't playing, whoever wasn't playing went to the bar and just they were, but it was like a cater waiter. What the hell is that? It's like you own wineries. Get a real bartender.
+
+[21:14] Sas, am I wrong about this? Isn't what you told me? We don't know who the guy was. He could have been somebody that works on their vineyards, you know. You said to me you just look like an average joker.
+
+[21:27] Yes. That is true. That is he looked average, but it could have been like somebody that works with them. So you tell me this, I say it, and now you backpedal and make me look like a bad guy. Because it wasn't like Mike Cappuffieri up there, you know, like we don't know who's up there.
+
+[21:45] Okay. He looked like an average guy. All right. But it wasn't a star tender. Oh, do they still use that term?
+
+[21:53] Start tender. Oh my god. I'm gonna bring that. I'm gonna bring that back and they call everyone star tender. My my wife.
+
+[22:01] Yeah, yeah, yeah. So do she. My wife's making me watch uh season two of the bear. Yes, it's it's very good, but like the whole yes chef thing, we need to come up with something for bartenders. You know what I mean?
+
+[22:11] So that people can like like just scream at each other and like, you know, fake give each other props all the time at the bar. You know what I mean? Yes, Tendi, no tendy. You know what I mean? Her tendi.
+
+[22:24] Three daiquiries all day, Tendi. Wouldn't work. You know what I mean? Like, it's wouldn't work. Uh, all right.
+
+[22:31] So well, I think I think it would stress people out at the bar to hear that in front of your face the whole time the whole night, you know. You think? Probably. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[22:42] I'd be entertained. You like you like it? I'd like it. Yeah. Three day daiquiries melting in the window.
+
+[22:48] Three daiquiries all day, chef! Oh, you can't say chef. Had to say something else. You know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean?
+
+[22:54] Heard. Like, everything has to be like, okay, whatever. Uh, what about you, Quinn? You got anything for us before we go into glasses, glasses, glasses? Uh yeah.
+
+[23:04] I uh we recently got what is known as like a cowboy grill. Well, basically, you know, like a fire pit with a grill over it. I freaking love cowboy grill. Some like armature that you can like swing different grills on and off. Oh, yeah.
+
+[23:21] Or like hang a pot of uh uh beans or whatever. Do you have you have a cast iron bean pot, my friend? I mean, we cooked something on there, so we we must have a compatible pot. I mean, you need a cast iron camping like a Dutch oven. You need one if you got a cowboy cowboy grill is God's cooking.
+
+[23:44] What what what what uh fuel did you use? Uh just some wood. Yeah, baby. Do you have a lot of wood where you are? I mean, my brothers went and bought them.
+
+[23:56] Uh yeah. I don't like have like wood on hand. I used unconscionable amounts of wood on my cowboy grill. But yeah, like what you get a cord of wood? Oh, Quinn or me back in the day.
+
+[24:07] Yeah. I mean, back in the day, I had nothing but wood. I like we were on 17 acres and trees were falling down left and right. I was like, I'll just burn anything. I would I I would burn a whole house full of wood.
+
+[24:17] It's like the way people used to write about stuff in the 1800s. They're like, cut down a tree, burn it, make dinner. You know what I mean? It was like that kind of level of wood. Cowboy grill.
+
+[24:25] Cowboy grill. That's what we burn for the gods. And I would heat it so much that the that the eventually the grill just warped. I ended up not even end up the the grill like ended up being use useless. I had to like have my own grills that I would put over it because it was so dang hot.
+
+[24:37] So what'd you make on it, Quinn? Well, the previous, we did that one Sunday. The previous Thursday, we got a fresh uh local halibut, fresh off the boat. So we butchered that, and so we we did sort of a seafood feast. A uh sort of non-descript halibut head curry cooked over the fire, and then yeah, like a big, like a nice chunk of um halibut.
+
+[25:08] Wait, hold on. Well, you just said nondescript. What? What do you mean? You say you didn't like it?
+
+[25:14] You didn't like the curry. No, my brother, no, my brother didn't like follow a particular style of curry. We were just like free-string. All right, but it it had flavor. You're saying it wasn't it wasn't, it wasn't a specific curry, it was it was some sort of curry-like device.
+
+[25:33] Not like it was kind of like beige. It was the beige of curries. Yeah, no, again, I like it wasn't like specifically curry or Indian inspired curry or Japanese curry, or just like we have like all these aromatics and spices, and then my brother made a stew. Okay. Stew and curry, huh?
+
+[25:56] How how wait, so what kind of stew? The curry. But well, this doesn't seem to be like you need the cowboy grill for this. It seems to be a separate problem, right? Unless you just want to cook it out.
+
+[26:10] We cooked it over the fire because we had grilled halibut and the halibut head. I know we've had this discussion before, but bully base or Chupino, one has to die. Bully based dies or bully based stays. Bleebase dies. Bully-based dyes, I think you're right.
+
+[26:29] I think you're right. Chupino's delicious. Are you a fan of uh tomato-based uh fish stews, David? It's not my cup of tea, but I mean, I I like a tomato-based fish stew quite a lot. And I'm gonna have to say that uh yeah, I think reigns supreme between that and the bully base.
+
+[26:48] I'm sure my man Francophile behind me has to go bully base, but only when it's got real gunard in it. Mediterranean lover, freaking. Oh yeah, sure you're not. Sure you're not. Um guy, you know, I haven't, you know.
+
+[27:03] I've I've never, all the times I've been to San Francisco, I've never had a Chupino in San Francisco. I used to make it quite regularly. You gotta have that garlic bread and the sausage. Yeah. I I will also say I just don't think I've had good Chupino yet.
+
+[27:18] Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right.
+
+[27:23] So uh here's when oh, we have uh Mad's reference coming on. Wrestling. Oh, awesome. I didn't know that. Oh, nice.
+
+[27:30] All right. And uh I'm here to promote the Patreon. If you're listening live on the Patreon, first of all, uh, we're gonna talk about GlassFan uh right now, but uh even for uh David has been gracious, even for people who aren't Patreon. If you use uh my name Dave Arnold, you get a discount code but David Arnold. David Arnold.
+
+[27:51] Come on, man. Dave Arnold. And then uh but the email said. Oh god, geez Louise, we'll make it Dave Arnold. It'll work.
+
+[27:58] Uh but uh if you're on the Patreon, uh, we have a different code, and you get uh an even bigger discount. You want to tell them uh what they get for being on the Patreon, John? Access to our Discord uh with the community of like-minded people talking about great things all the time, sharing restaurant recommendations. I'm gonna throw up some new Belgian Belgian spots in there that were very tasty. Um access to discount codes with uh people at Kitchen Arts and Letters and Glassfin and a lot of the other great people we work with, um, access to the recordings before we release them to the general public.
+
+[28:27] So yeah, just a whole bunch of great things at different membership levels, and check it out at patreon.com slash cooking issues. All right, so I was a little skeptical uh, you know, when uh you said, you know, we're gonna we're gonna have you on the show. They, you know, you guys ship me some glasses, and I was like, okay, you're shipping fragile glasses in regular post. And I have to say, not one of them broke. And like your packaging is uh, I mean, I mean you must have breakage because it's life.
+
+[28:58] But uh the packaging is pretty robust. The packaging looks like it's got to cost you a lot. Yes, it does. Yeah, it's very fancy, you know, packaging. Uh here's a question for you.
+
+[29:09] When you get the glasses, right? They come in this in this package and you you open it up. Inside the package are is a magnetic strip. Why? It's to uh glue the glass back together if it breaks.
+
+[29:22] No, I'm joking, I'm joking. Yeah, what's it uh uh it's to uh seal the box um after you've opened the seal in case you need to use the box again. Oh, for people who live where they have space where they can keep a box. Well, a lot of people use the box and take it to a restaurant so that they can drink out of nice glassware at restaurants that don't have nice glassware. I mean, if you came to my restaurant and used a glass, although I you know, like I I would be like, I would be like, I'd be like, oh yeah.
+
+[29:55] John, what would you do? I would just be like, we're gonna be in for a ride with that person. I think this is how Cato found out about my glasses. Wait, someone brought glassware to Cato? I think so, yeah.
+
+[30:07] Before they moved, I think. I don't know. Someone that's I believe that's how he found out about me. That listen, listen, listen, like, okay, listen, there are plenty of people out there who need their own stuff in order to feel comfortable outside. And so let's give people the benefit of the doubt, John.
+
+[30:23] You know what I'm saying? Well, it's it's because a lot of uh restaurants don't have uh good glassware, so you know right. But you're going to Cato and you're paying eight billion dollars for a tasting menu and you don't think their glasses are gonna be nice enough? It might not have been Cato then. Uh he saw it somewhere and someone brought it, maybe it was to a third par third restaurant or something.
+
+[30:40] Yeah, yeah. So hey, so you have two models, right? Like not models of glasses, models of business, right? So you started with direct uh customers like regular jokers, but we also have a lot of profession. I mean, look, whatever.
+
+[30:53] I don't mean it, uh you know how I mean it. I mean in the nicest possible way, right, John? Yes. Yeah, yeah. You know, regular, you know, folk, non-industry.
+
+[31:02] You know what I mean? Yeah. And then uh, but then you also branched out and you do to industry. So if you're industry, you're buying obviously more than two at a time, and you have two different thicknesses of glass. So for those of you that don't know, these glasses are like super thin and they're handmade.
+
+[31:21] So the average um like normal person uh Riedel glasses, like the ones that I used to get uh for my house are machine made. They're pretty decent, but they're machine made. Riedel also makes a very much more expensive handmade one. Uh, you know, and I I mean back in the day, they owned the entire market before Zalto and that they of a fancy weirdos like the Robert Parker kind of like wine crowd, and they're like, you know, buying all the different sizes of glass where uh si sizes and styles, and like I used I went to see um I forget the older one's name. Was it Maximilian or the younger one was Maximilian?
+
+[32:00] I forget. I saw Old Man Riedel, the one who's now dead, give a uh uh uh a big tasting where you know he walked you through like all the stuff that I don't actually believe. Like this glass aims the wine at this particular place on your tongue and therefore accentuates this particular flavor. Now you do get different obviously presentations of aroma on different glasses and different you know ways it's structured, but I think you know, a lot of what he he was doing was just amazing salesmanship and and kind of mental manipulation. But I did like the glasses, especially the his fancy handmade.
+
+[32:32] But you decided handmade glasses should be for everybody. So like why don't you say what the price of like one of your handmade APs is? What do you call the AP again? Do you just call it? Uh the universal is our high-end one.
+
+[32:43] Right. Uh and we sell that for two for eighty, and obviously you can put the 10% off code. And then we also introduced the new glass, and it's two for 48, and we call that the all-purpose. And that's our uh entry-level hand blown wine glass. And that's also the one that you more likely find at mo at most restaurants, right?
+
+[33:02] Because like right now, no, because we started with the universal. Right. And so we've been doing that for like four years, and we just started with the all-purpose um like last year. Right. Yeah.
+
+[33:13] So and what's what's the percentage that you sell of each, you think? Like or more people buying it? Right now, I would say the the higher end is probably like 80% of our sales still. Yeah. Just because it's way earlier.
+
+[33:24] Also, that's the one where like that put us on the map where there's real like differentiation where like you pick it up and you're like, wow, like this is different than what I've used before. They do feel good. Yeah. They feel they feel ridiculous, like they they're like very thin. Yeah.
+
+[33:42] If it's the first time you've used a hand blown wine glass, like if you haven't used Zalto before or our other competitors, like when you lift that glass, you're gonna be you're gonna be like, What what on earth is this? Yeah. I did break one, but it wasn't the glass's fault. So here's another interesting fact. You say don't hand wash it because that's how you're gonna break it.
+
+[33:59] Correct. Did you did you break it hand washing it? No, I put I put it in a freezer. And my freezers are drawer freezers, and so it had settled wrong. And so I can't stand anything in my freezer.
+
+[34:11] Everything has to lay on its side. And so it laid on its side, but the the the um the base kicked up a little bit, and so when I opened the drawer, it caught the base and just boom shattered the thing on on one of the beers, beer glasses. So I'm trying I'm debating at the bar. So, you know, just whatever, full whatever, uh at Contra Bar, which is you know the bar that I'm starting with uh Jeremiah Stone and and uh Fabian Lanhouskey, you know, who knows when, mid May, something like this. At Contra, they use and in Wild Air, I think, right?
+
+[34:41] They use your glasses. Yes. Yeah. We designed the tasting glass. If you go on my website, you can see you can buy the tasting glass.
+
+[34:46] That was as that was designed with them. Yeah, cool. So yeah, so they they're an early adopter. Yes. You know what I mean?
+
+[34:53] Um, and so we're hopefully gonna use uh we're gonna use you know some of these at the at the bar as well, I hope. Uh going through and you do have a line of uh of bar stuff. But anyway, so like I'm trying to figure out what I'm gonna do with carbonated drinks because everybody with carbonated drinks uh puts it on on ice. Back at Booker and Dak's time, I used to put my drinks just in champagne flutes. Now I'm not a champagne flute guy anymore because it's like a little too concentrated.
+
+[35:18] So but I was thinking more like an AP glass for carbonated without without ice. At existing conditions, we went to ice, but everyone now with ice uses collins. Collins spears, relative pain in the butt, relatively expensive, and also you're still diluting in ice and having a Collins glass, you also make a Collins glass. But it's a very relatively large volume Collins glass, so it'll require we can make a smaller one for you. Okay, okay.
+
+[35:43] Um the question is, can I go back to iceless service? And if we do, Jeremiah was like, we want to get a shorter stem, and that's why we're using the beer glass. Or is that what you call it? The beer glass? It's like go to the bistro, I believe is the one you're talking about.
+
+[35:56] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's the one I shattered. Jeremiah we'll send you a new one. All right, nice. Jeremiah took the other one up too, uh, because he's gonna use it, use it upstate.
+
+[36:05] Um, so I'll say this, even though I know that you care mostly about uh drinking wine and these things. Do you know what is uh really really good? Drinking seltzer out of thin glass. Like seltzer is is the most refreshing thing in the world, in my opinion. And drinking seltzer out of the uh out of your stemless your your stemless guy, super thin.
+
+[36:31] I'm like, this is just even more refreshing because it doesn't it's like the glass isn't there. It's like it's like you are delivering refreshment to your face. Right. You know what I mean? It magically appears in your mouth.
+
+[36:44] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It I have to say, it does take a little bit of getting used to having the glass be so light. Right. It's just like crazy.
+
+[36:54] But they don't seem to break in normal things. Uh uh, you know, I don't know. You have most people break them when they look uglier when you hand wash them. Yes, you yeah, definitely just use a dishwasher for sure. It looks better and doesn't break as much.
+
+[37:08] Honestly, anything, everything I think just tastes better in a thinner, lighter vessel of any kind. Like I was using a ceramic vessel that was really thin, really light, and my tea tasted better and my coffee tasted better. I don't know why. Are you gonna do ceramics? We're thinking about it.
+
+[37:23] We're working on it. Now here's uh so before I uh before I go uh uh too much further, one thing one thing that I will say though is that the where the wine world and the bar world are different. So the glass that I care most about at the bar uh is the coupe, right? And Nikonora's and that whole variety. But the one thing is that when they're hand blown, they do have different volumes, glass to glass.
+
+[37:48] And so I have to figure out some way to work with it because I need all of the wash lines to be the same. So whereas at a wine bar, I can pour to a particular line on the glass. At a bar bar, I'm making the drink in a tin and and the recipe always has to stay the same. And it has to look the same in every glass that I pour it into because I use it as a visual check to make sure that um that the recipe was executed properly. And as a even more than that, if I send two glasses with similar drinks to, you know, a table and they see the wash line, which is you know the place where the drink hits the the glass.
+
+[38:32] If the wash line is different, then people get completely bent out of shape. Yeah, rightfully so, right? Rightfully so. Uh it's the same way where, like, you know, whenever Nastassi and I go out, uh, you know, when like I'm we're doing something out, and we go out to dinner, and we get a tasting, and her friend Pat is sitting next to us, and the waiter likes Pat, so he gets a tall pour and I get a kid's pour in my glass. We're like, what the hell?
+
+[38:58] You know what I mean, Stas? Remember that? Yeah. I'm sitting there tapping the table and like and like Pat, Pat's getting like Pat's getting like freaking goblets, and I don't even want a full goblet full of wine because that's not even pleasant. Like, I'd rather have two smaller glasses of wine, to be honest, you know, money aside, right?
+
+[39:17] I'd rather have two smaller glasses of wine. I'd rather have two smaller cocktails. It's more pleasant to hold a smaller cocktail, but don't give me a kid's pour. I'm not a small child. I might act like a small child, but I'm not a small child.
+
+[39:29] You know what I mean? Jonel from uh Atomics is walking right by us. I don't know. He's one of our commands. Oh nice, getting fish pulled.
+
+[39:38] Um so, anyways, uh so one of the issues I need to worry about with coops is that. So how do you kind of control getting like uh accurate sizing on a hand blown glass? Yeah, so so yeah, that's not gonna be as good as a machine made on that front. Yeah, but it does look does look a lot better and taste and fee and feel really good. And it doesn't have as much of a thermal mass.
+
+[40:00] I think if if your drink is going all the way up to the top, then then I can see issues for things that are like a little bit more in the middle, it should be. Um have you liquid nitrogen to your glasses yet? I'll tell you what happens. Yeah. We'll test it pretty soon.
+
+[40:17] We'll let we'll let we'll let you know. I'm sure it'll be fine. The thinner a glass is, the better it actually is with liquid nitrogen. Right. Because it gets there's less like uh crazy uh stress stuff that that builds up.
+
+[40:27] Yeah, I mean we're not inventing anything new. There's already a lot of hand blown cocktail glasses out there. A lot of these top 50 world's 50 bars or whatever are using hand blown weasel cocktail glasses. And we're just offering it at a much more affordable um price point. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[40:43] Wait, well, I mean, much more affordable than that. I mean, it's more than like the garbage that I normally, like Libby's and whatnot. Oh, no offense. Libby's fine, listen, listen. I serve plenty of drinks out of Libby's, it's fine, it's all good.
+
+[40:55] I mean, uh the Libby Corporation definitely has a reason to exist. I and I have Libby's too. I mean, like, I'm not being the jerk with Talibia, am I? No, no. All right, it's fine.
+
+[41:04] Yeah. I'm all right. I apologize. I mean, we don't compete with them, obviously. They're probably selling their cocktail glasses for like two bucks a glass or something.
+
+[41:12] Yeah. Our goal is just that every price point we're the best glass. So that's it. Right. So you're getting you're getting like uh you're getting twice the value for the price.
+
+[41:20] Exactly. Yeah. Uh so here's what I think's interesting is oh first of all, before is do people have a tendency to overpour into your glasses? Those wine glasses with the really thin stem, if you pour it too high, you're like, oh Jesus, is glass split. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[41:36] Has that ever happened? Does anyone pour it so high? Does it ever just go chink? Is there like like if you pour one of those tall glasses too tall, if you do like a if you do like a one of those like T you know how on TV, like they go in and they pour like half a bottle of wine into their glass to symbolize I'm in a bad mood. You know what I mean?
+
+[41:53] Like that's how they Yeah, like the the capacity of some of those glasses is like 750. You can put the whole bottle in if you want. Um we actually had a client, um corner bar that like was making a margarita out of it, and they had like all the ice and stuff, and what happened? It was fine. It was fine.
+
+[42:09] Didn't it? That stem actually i it's not that easy to break that stem. Because Jeremiah won't let me put ice in one of those glasses with stems. Oh, well, uh yeah. I wouldn't the higher end glass isn't supposed to use uh it's not supposed to have ice.
+
+[42:23] But the middle one. The the lower the the entry level one you can put ice into it, yeah. So the the the one with the the thin glass, I like if you over pour it, it just first of all, the stem is really tall, so the actual like throat, like actual lever arm of the wine in your hand is like immense, and you feel like you're doing something bad. You feel like you're doing something terrible if you overfill the glass. So you recommend actually only pouring up to the widest portion of the glass in general?
+
+[42:51] Not not even the widest portion. That cause because even at the widest portion, like on our burgundies or whatever, it's gonna be like a lot of wine. So, you know, you just put whatever five ounces is. You're a five-ounce man? Yeah, I I'm less actually.
+
+[43:04] I'm I'm I I like to do like as little as possible to be honest, like two or three ounces. Really? Yeah, I'd rather just come back and pour more in. But I don't want, you know, like if I I'm I work so hard to get the price uh the the uh the weight of that glass down to like a hundred grams, and then I don't want to ruin it with 150 grams of wine. Uh there you go.
+
+[43:22] Okay, okay, fair. Uh I got a question in the Discord. Oh, it's it um from Josh Seaberg. Ah, I like Josh. Yeah.
+
+[43:29] A hot dog is not a sandwich, whoever. Yes. Um he's curious why you went with such wide-shaped coupes and Nicks and Nora's. Was it for ease of blowing? His Nick and Nora's not that wide, just a coupe.
+
+[43:39] Okay. He loves all the silver. It's not because of ease of blowing, it was just a design. Gotcha. Just sign.
+
+[43:44] But then the Nick and Nora is wide for a Nick and Nora, but it's narrow for a coop. Got it. Yeah. Wouldn't you say? Oh now.
+
+[43:51] Our our goal is just to have, you know, some in every size range, so for all the things that you need it for. Like, we don't have a middle one, just but because we haven't made it yet, but we're gonna make something. The one that I think we're calling a Nick and Nora that I have though is has the volume of a regular coop like coupe. I think it can hold a full five and a half ounces. And the coupe coop is big, big, right?
+
+[44:14] Yeah. Like do you make an actual like moral like closer to like four ounce Nick and Nora? Uh we can make anything. What what you see on the website is what we have right now, but we can theoretically make anything. So like if if when you say that, like if if I'm a restaurant and I want a glass, a particular shape, like how much time and money am I talking?
+
+[44:32] How many do I need? Well, if if you're suggesting something that other people are gonna be interested in, then we'll just develop it and add it to our line. Right. And and you'll be our first customer. You know what I mean?
+
+[44:42] Well, so how about how many, like, oh, but like how long is it take? Like because they gotta make the mold, all your stuff's in wooden molds, right? Very fast. Uh no, they're actually uh not not wood, they're like uh metal. Oh, they're metal molds, yeah.
+
+[44:54] And then they're like spinning it in the mold by hand. All right, so so how long like like I like I have an idea, I'm gonna open a restaurant. If we're trying to do something like, okay, like company vents that are natural, like they came to me like probably four months ago. They're opening this month. So completely custom.
+
+[45:10] Completely custom glass. Well, we'll see if you you can be the judge of that when you go. So, like, but if if I want to make something that you hate, how much more does it cost? Like how much how many do I how many do I need to make? Um minimum, then it's just gonna be expensive.
+
+[45:21] It it will it you probably wouldn't be able to do it as a restaurant. Unless if you're like a big restaurant group or something. Right, but like what is it, like a hundred glasses, like a thousand glasses? Like um more than a hundred. More than a hundred.
+
+[45:31] A hundred, a couple hundred, probably, and then each glass would be expensive. Right. Because cause that's you know, that's not at a pr mass-produced level. Right. How many molds do they need for each shape?
+
+[45:42] Like when you're gonna make a shape, how many molds do you need to make? Just one? Yeah, it's just for the bowl. Right, but I mean in other words, like you don't have like five different people doing it at the same time. You don't need five copies of it?
+
+[45:52] Uh there might be more than one mold, yeah, for for that reason. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So here's the other thing that I find interesting is that uh most people, like we had the maiden folks, you know, on uh before, and most people who go into these kinds of businesses come from these businesses. Right. Right?
+
+[46:12] Because they have the contacts and like Nastasia and I and John bitterly know how hard it is to get factories sometimes to talk to you unless you like known them for forever. Right. But you came at this because you're like, I like wine glasses and they cost too much, and uh I'm a business person, so I'm gonna do this. How the hell did that work? Like how the hell did you get people to even talk to you?
+
+[46:38] Because I think people might be interested. This is not a standard model. Like to go into this kind of business not being from it is not standard. Um I the the good thing is I'm the one paying them money. So so uh it hasn't worked for us though.
+
+[46:55] So that's a that's somewhat helpful. Uh obviously the the harder thing was to get like the the the clients, you know, because I I am not from the business, so it was hard to like, you know, get like our first press was Ray Isle, and that was like um, you know, like two years after, because I didn't have any press contacts, you know, and restaurants it took a while, you know. But once it started going, it started going. But like, so how many, like uh how many different factories is how helpful is it to have different factories so that you can play one against the other? Like, probably pretty helpful, right?
+
+[47:29] Or is it just because you need more production? We don't play factories against each other. It's just no, no, seriously, we don't. Um, I'm just like, that's not what I want to do. I just want to have I want to be happy and I don't want to make people mad and I don't want people mad at me, you know.
+
+[47:43] But uh we we do have many factories because things happen. Right, right. Yeah. So if one factory uh, you know, and this is like hand blown wine glasses, like things happen, like like the the furnace shuts down or whatever. So so you so you need some uh options.
+
+[48:00] And do you find that most of the different factories can produce to the same spec? We only use the top factories that can do this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[48:09] So like how many are there? Like in in the We use all of them. But like I don't even know how big it would it'd be a handful. Really, yeah, we use all of them. Yeah.
+
+[48:18] All right. Yeah, I mean, like uh the problem for us is is that you know, we have only one factory, and because we only have one factory, they can pretty much put us over a barrel and tell us to do whatever we you know they want us to do. And it's hard to move back and forth because there's a lot of development and all this other stuff. Um I'm assuming that in your world it's like in my world and that you own the molds, they don't, right? Or is it or do they own the molds?
+
+[48:43] Uh they own the molds. Oh yeah. So it's slightly different from like the so like in the in the products world where we are you pay for all of the molds for like the injection molding stuff, and we own them. So technically, if I wanted to, I could be like, hand me those molds, I'm going to another factory. You know what I mean?
+
+[49:00] But like Well, yeah, I mean it's easy to to get another factory to make the same molds. It's it's it's not an issue. Yeah. So you want to go through the procedure how one of these suckers is made or no? People might not know.
+
+[49:11] Sure. You ever you ever go you ever have you ever learned a blow glass yourself? You ever no, no, no? It looks way too complicated. You never want you never wanted to like just go to Urban Glass and try it out.
+
+[49:19] Maybe it's kind of fun. Yeah. They you know you can go and you can just pay them and like they don't expect that you're gonna ever be good at it, but they teach teach you how to do it. Wow. And it's fun.
+
+[49:30] I I feel like what they do there must be quite a bit different than I mean, maybe it's similar, but uh I mean I like like I just can't imagine being able to blow my own glass. Like that just seems so hard. Well, they're not they're not making what you do. I mean they I think mo most of the stuff there is uh like glass artisans, they do they do a lot of lamp work and and stuff like that. Um they have probably some people, you know, doing that.
+
+[49:54] We you know, they teach you to blow like little vases and stuff like this. You know what I mean? So but you should definitely do it for fun because it's right here in the city. Okay. Urban glass and there's another one, not just urban glass, there's a second one.
+
+[50:05] I don't I don't know, but it's just I don't know, it might be fun, maybe not. Maybe because it's your business, you wouldn't think it's fun. Maybe it's like if someone says, Hey, do you want to go do this cooking thing? I'm like, No. Right.
+
+[50:16] You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. I don't know. So you want so what's the procedure? How does it how does it work?
+
+[50:21] Yes, uh so you can also go on our website and it's all shown there. But yeah, so there's a mold and then someone blows the glass and it covers uh the mold, and there's there's some chemistry about the mold and like how that contacts the glass and stuff like that. And then um and then there's a piece at the end of the glass that you stretch to become the stem, and then you attach a piece for the base, and then that base is rolled into like a um like a pancake kind of thing. And then uh and then it's slowly cooled so that it uh um gets more durable and then and then it's cut, the rim is cut and then it's polished, and then yeah, and then it's done. So how many how many people, in other words, like how like from a factory standpoint is it am I making an entire glass or am I blowing the bowl and handing it to to the STEM person?
+
+[51:13] Uh you're you're doing one part of it. You're doing one part of it. Okay, so how long is it take to make each glass? Each glass probably takes 30 seconds. What?
+
+[51:23] Yeah, what? But there's like you said, there's 10 people doing it. So you're blowing, given this guy. So my operation takes 30 seconds. But no, no, no, no, no, no.
+
+[51:31] Like the whole thing probably takes 30 seconds, but everyone's really fast because like they're just doing that one thing. So how long do they need to train? How long do they need to train to do this? It's a long time. Yeah.
+
+[51:42] And and you have your job, right? Because you're like, Yeah, I'm the STEM person or whatever. So if one person is sick, then you know, then you make a different glass. Yeah, it'd be because like you look person's like, I'm the bowl person, I'm doing I ain't doing the stems. Like that, like that kind of situation.
+
+[52:01] Yeah, like our our stuff is the most complicated and highest end that a factory will do. So like everything has the stars have to align to make our glass. But if one person is sick, they can make one of the other glasses. Huh. And so, and how does it so are you then s putting sending your packages to the factory?
+
+[52:19] Because your packages are also their own engineered megilla. So then they're doing it and then it like goes out direct uh or to to a warehouse or whatever, but they pack it into your stuff there. You're not taking delivery of the phone. Yeah, exactly, exactly. It goes right into the packaging and then it's shipped on boats and stuff.
+
+[52:37] What percentage of glasses do they do they mess up? Do you know, like when they're making it? Like what kind of like Oh, it's high. Yeah, I bet. Because there's there's uh like you know like the the every Hamblin glass is different.
+
+[52:48] So there's a certain amount of difference that we allow and if it goes above that then it's then it's it yeah. Do they take it home? Do you think all of these folks have like really nice glasses at home? I I don't think they drink very much wine where we make the glasses. No, they don't mean like seltzer is really good out of these things.
+
+[53:06] Yeah. Right. I'm telling you like uh I served it to my wife the other day I'm like here how much better does that seltzer taste? And she was like if you want we can make a seltzer glass together. Really?
+
+[53:17] I would love that. Dave Arnold seltzer glass you know like one of the tri one of the tricks I like is uh and I forget where I learned this from who was it dead rabbit somebody maybe I don't remember um two different glasses right so there's a you have a still water glass and a sparkling water glass not because they technically need to be different but for the servers. For the servers. So they know what you have right and usually you want people to drink the seltzer in smaller pieces faster so it doesn't go flat. So the tall glass is the still glass and the short glass is the seltzer glass.
+
+[53:50] And also most people can't drink as much seltzer as I can. That's true. You know what I mean? Like I can drink a lot of seltzer very quickly it does not bother me bubbles don't bother it actually it disturbs Nastasia watching me drink seltzer seltzer but not as much as when I was sp spewing you with uh bird guts at Hicks right that was the worst was that the worst meal you've ever had with me or when you were eating the meal at Jiro like with an unhinged jaw, like Oh, were they telling you to be like quieter or no no, no? I was just uh I was eating too fast and the our our other guest had to run out because uh his uh butt was set on spray because he was sick.
+
+[54:35] Anyway, uh but not because of Jiro. Ward Shortle uh writes in I work in wine over the years, have downgraded and quotes the glasses I offer for wine parties I host. One friend is notorious for breaking a glass at everyone's home, flailing he has flailing arm syndrome, or they have flailing arm syndrome. I've recently started using higher quality plastic stem glasses and no one seems to mind. Is there a wine glass etiquette for a certain caliber of wine?
+
+[54:56] By the way, do you there is no solution for like hot tub places and pools? Uh does Grand Crew Burgundy Riesling champagne have to be poured in a glass van, Zalto, uh Gabriel glass, specially glassware, etc. Can I get away with some cheap o schmeapo plastic stems? I know what you're gonna say, but you will you can respond. Also, hello from a well uh fellow wine berserker, which is a it's been great to see your business grow.
+
+[55:20] So they they they they appreciate, but they wanna, you know, they don't like these things getting broken by their chode friends. So I mean, yes, I'm biased, but you can drink anything out of a glass van. You don't need to get any other brand. But like uh but what are your thoughts? Like when someone hands like could someone make theoretically a plastic glass that is decent to drink out of?
+
+[55:38] Uh I I'd love to see it. We we'll offer it if it's pleasant, but I I just don't I don't think it's likely. Yeah. Now the problem with breaking glasses is is not only that it is broken and you have lost the money, but that it also puts glass everywhere. I wonder if anyone has made like a situation where you could put like a light coating on the outside of the glass so that when it breaks, it's not putting glass everywhere.
+
+[56:03] I mean, like my main fear of broken glass is broken glass. Right. Not the Especially in a restaurant setting, that seems like pretty annoying. Uh yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, it sucks.
+
+[56:11] Sucks. Typically when our glasses break, it's the stem, so it's not going everywhere. Right. Yeah. But you know, like for for any sort of person who's had to work that kind of service before, the sound of broken glass, like even when you're at a party, it's like it's you know you know what I'm saying?
+
+[56:26] Yes. Oh my gosh. Yeah, but like our glasses also have like the it's not like the like the really high pitch, it's it's kind of a lower pitch. And so it's just the way that our glasses are. Oh, do you do that thing where you take your glasses and go ding?
+
+[56:38] Yeah, it's more of like a bong kind of a how much do you hate a seam in a glass when you see a seam in a glass? Oh my gosh. Yes. That's how you tell when it's a real. Oh, yeah.
+
+[56:47] Oh man. The seams. Yeah. JPM uh writes in by the way, in 50 seconds the music will start playing, but don't worry, we have two minutes. Okay.
+
+[56:55] Uh when Cato reopened in the row, which is I guess is that what they call that area of LA, Stas? The row? Yeah. I think so. Yeah.
+
+[57:02] Why? I don't know. I mean, it's not row-shaped. It's like a bunch of warehouses. You can barely figure out how to get in there because you have to penetrate in with your car, and then you know, whatever.
+
+[57:14] Remember when you rented that giant Jeep and we couldn't get in and out of it? We look like idiots getting in and out of our car. Yeah. Yeah, we look like that idiot that buys a Lamborghini but doesn't know how to use a clutch. Uh when Cato reopened in the row, we were enamored with the glassware, and Ryan spoke so highly of David, uh, you David, uh, and what he was doing with the company that we ordered a set of universals as soon as we got home.
+
+[57:39] After two to three years, we still use them weekly, and they are in great shape. Thank you. This may seem like a very one-on-one question, but what are the telltale signs of quality in glassware? Right now I am at the I think I know when I see it and feel it, but are there specific attributes that show craftsmanship and quality? Well, you mentioned one where the if there's a seam, then that's a no-go.
+
+[57:56] There's actually some pretty nice, like machine-made glasses now that don't have a seam, and they're actually just made the same way that uh hand-blown wine glasses made. It's just they've replaced the humans um on every part of the process. But yeah, no, I think uh I think really like the thing that makes the biggest difference is how light in and how thin the glass is. It is crazy. Yes.
+
+[58:16] Yeah. I mean, like surprising. Yeah. Yeah. Um here's a question for you.
+
+[58:20] So I noticed on some of the glasses you have uh the the stem, especially on the ones that are like meant to be like all purpose, whether I I think I have the universals, but like that they have a very wide base such that when you're putting them together, they don't crack the bowls together. The bases touch before the bowls do. Is that on purpose or am I just lucky? Uh we make the base bigger, but not for that reason. It's to give a better count counterweight to when the the wine is there.
+
+[58:46] It also prevents you from smacking the bowls together and means that when you shut the cabinet on it, it touches the base before it touches the bowl. Got it. Which makes me feel better. Can you can you upside down hang those things or is they too fragile? Really?
+
+[58:59] Absolutely, yeah, yeah. You make me nervous with it. That's not how these things break. They break because they someone threw them on the ground or because you were hand washing them and you snap the stem. Because you're pushing too hard when you go in?
+
+[59:10] Yeah, exactly. What about uh twisting, twist you can't twist. What about dishwashers at uh commercial dishwashers? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we have like 200 restaurants that use us.
+
+[59:18] Yeah. So you well, you're in some stupid number of uh of Michelin star restaurants, right? Some crazy percentage of the of the newer Michelin star restaurants use your wares, right? Exactly. All right.
+
+[59:28] Well, uh, I'm a fan. I like the products. We're gonna be using them at uh Contra Bar, you know, when we open up, hopefully, you know, in the next month or so. Uh the company is Glass van, glass.van, G-L 1 S, G-L-A-S dot V-I-N. Go get you some glasses, uh, David.
+
+[59:44] Thank you for coming on. David Kong from Glass Van. This is Cooking Issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City, News Stance Studios. Joined as usual with John behind me. How you doing, John? Doing great, thanks.
+
+[0:21] Everything good? Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels. What's up? Hey, great to see everyone here. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[0:26] And uh we got a full house over there in the upper left. We got Quinn. How are you doing, Quinn? Feeling better? Yeah, I'm good.
+
+[0:32] Awesome, awesome. Uh down there in the Los Angeles area, we got Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing? I'm good. Good, good, good.
+
+[0:40] And Jackie Molecules, right? Yo, I'm here. Love it. Love it. And uh today's special guest, actually first time, first time ever on the show, although I have been to your new restaurant, so we could talk about it, is uh Chef's Chef Mads Wrestling, uh now of Illis, but uh formerly of uh what, Acme and then NOMA.
+
+[1:01] Call in your questions to uh 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507. If you are a member of the Patreon, you can do that. And John, why don't you tell them uh what they get? You get access to a well through the different levels of membership.
+
+[1:16] We got access to things like our Discord, uh discounts with uh some of the great people we work with, like Matt at Kitchen Arts and Letters and the rest of the team there. Um Edwards HMeats, you know, we've worked with them in the past, Glass Vin, you know, just a bunch of great things. Um patreon.com slash cooking issues. And uh Quinn, were you able to get Kitchen Arts and Letters to give the uh Patreon discount on uh Chef's book or no? Yes, yeah, that can't that went up yesterday.
+
+[1:40] Uh uh, nice. So if you're a member of the Patreon, you can uh log on to Kitchen Arts and Letters and pick up uh Chef uh Wrestling's book, Scraps, Wilt and Weeds, which we can talk about uh later. Actually, that's very early in the uh cookbooks on using you know using things that might otherwise get thrown away. We'll talk about later. You just like uh I mean you were taking a very huge interest in that.
+
+[1:59] You wrote the book in 2017, which means you were thinking about it probably for five years before that. Yeah, very early. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And actually, well, uh, so now's the portion of the show where we talk about anything interesting that's uh happened, usually culinarily, not always. Sometimes it could be a concert, right?
+
+[2:16] It could be anything, but you know, try to keep it cooking related over the past week. Anyone got anything? I got things. All right, what do you got? Oh boy, I've been uh I've been a busy little bee.
+
+[2:29] So I finished uh curing my well a cured gooseb that I applied my guancholy recipe to. And so I made a porkless carbonura for one of my caregivers that doesn't eat pork. All right. Well, that's nice. Now let me ask you this.
+
+[2:54] What is the difference in the end result once it's cured between goose, which is usually in the US not so well, you're not in the US, you're in Canada, but usually not so great, versus duck, which is easier to get. Like, were you like, oh, now I know what goose tastes like when it's cured into like uh well, goose prosciutto style thing, goosebreast versus duck, any actual gooseness to it. Um I don't know if I've had I haven't had a cured duck recently. I thought it would be fattier, but it actually wasn't. So I think next time I will go for either duck or goose leg, actually.
+
+[3:36] I think that will be a better fat to read. That's probably gonna be tough tough as all get out, though. It's gonna be like the toughest thing you've e to cure. Yeah, but once you cure it and what you cure in Egypt? I think that'd be okay.
+
+[3:48] I mean, like pork cheek is tough. I don't know, man. I don't maybe. I don't know. You know, things it depends on how long you cure it.
+
+[3:54] Things break down, protein breaks down. At some point, yeah. Yeah. So uh Chefy, you know, you're Scandinavian folks, they love goose. I'm sure your goose is better than our goose though, right?
+
+[4:03] I don't think they're better, but uh maybe they're better fed and had a better life and somehow. But uh I think goose here are pretty good as well. Yeah, I just don't ever get them. They're so Yeah, they're difficult to find, but when you get them it's good. Do the Danes do that like Christmas gooseblood soup thing that the Swedes do?
+
+[4:21] No, it's it's not a traditional no. Yeah. Not so much. We do the sorties, but um no. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[4:27] It's more pork with it's it's focused about pork and and duck. Well, uh Kevin Kevin Jung from uh Noma and Noma Projects gave me f uh gave me a couple of weeks ago one of the scorers so I can do the Danish style score skin. What's the name of that thing? That tool? I don't know what it calls.
+
+[4:43] We use it for eel right now. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, that's what you use for your eel? Yeah, for the corn cob eel.
+
+[4:48] So we basically just score the eel skin so it gets crispy. So whose job is it to sharpen that thing? You you don't sharpen it at all. Ever it's just like No, you have to get a new one. It's almost like a razor one time razor.
+
+[5:00] Just razor f razor fish. It is razor plates, be basically these razor blades. Oh, I I kept it I keep it in the box in my house because I don't some want someone just going into the drawer and being like, What's this? 'Cause it looks it looks like it's not gonna be so harmful. Yeah.
+
+[5:14] Yeah, it is. You can cut yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I imagine. I imagine.
+
+[5:18] Uh what about you guys, California folks? Anything? You guys got anything this week? I'm going to New Orleans tomorrow. So if anybody in Discord has anything exciting and new there.
+
+[5:29] Well, what's new? I mean, New Orleans not really about the new, right? I guess that's true. I've done like most of the classic stuff. So I don't know.
+
+[5:37] Maybe off the beaten path and not new. Like what? Like what stuff's the cla like. So you've done like the Willie Mays, the Dukey Chase, the all of that kind of stuff. Oh yeah.
+
+[5:47] I mean, what's the name of that sandwich place that got a beard award? I went there last time. You need to talk to you need to see whether uh Turge is doing anything, the specialty Turkish coffee. The best Turkish coffee, like a world champion Barista Turge is down there in New Orleans, and I want everyone to have Turkish coffee the way he makes it, but he's never going to open a shop. He has a uh a place and he roasts his own stuff, and he does specialty Turkish coffee, and I have to say, I love it.
+
+[6:15] I think it's great. I'm not good at it. But you know, maybe check that out. There you go. That's a good tip.
+
+[6:21] Yeah. Yeah. All right, what about you, Stas? Um real cooking stuff. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[6:31] Well, okay, this is not cooking. This is not cooking, but here's what I here's what I did. I've always wanted to do this, and I have a lot of stuff that I'm behind on. So instead of doing that, I was like, hey, you remember when I made that the jigger and we were considering making a jigger for Booker and Dax, and we're like, no, we're never gonna make any money making a jigger. Never gonna make any money, not even one dime.
+
+[6:50] So there's no point. If you're not gonna make anything at all, if you're gonna lose money doing something, maybe don't. You know what I mean? Uh so but I realized that my program to write it is completely parametric. So I can just write whatever I want.
+
+[7:02] So I made I made a uh a jigger that is scaled such that a whole 750 of liquor is uh the two ounce portion of the jigger. So it's like I can I can make like 12 and a half drink, it's a 12 and a half drink jigger that just works like a regular jigger, but it's 12 and a half drinks, and then a mini one that goes with it that is for bar spoons and dashes, but in units of 12 and a half, so you can like mix with whole bottles. So that's all I got. What about you, John? Anything?
+
+[7:32] I've just been dealing with I was telling everyone before you showed up. Um that's a dig on me being late. Love it. Um, I've got an upstairs neighbor who's been uh complaining about the noise, even though we've been doing the same thing for three years and it's getting incredibly frustrated. At the restaurant?
+
+[7:48] Yeah. When did they move in? I don't know. Um, I would think recently, but it's like, what do you expect living right above a restaurant in the West Village in a 100-year-old building? I hate people so much.
+
+[7:59] They honestly called to ask us to turn the music off during service. You're like, no. No. Yeah. Here's something.
+
+[8:05] Here's something. No. Yep. And as a corollary to that, no. Yes, exactly.
+
+[8:12] You know what I mean? Yeah. I've been to your restaurant. It's not like it's you know what I mean. It's not, you're not like Yeah.
+
+[8:19] It's not one of those kind of places. It's not. Maybe uh see. What kind of music are we playing? Leave it up to the front of house staff to decide, but usually, I don't know, like Volfpe, I don't know.
+
+[8:30] Whatever radio stations on Spotify, but nothing like super intense. It's a wine bar. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It like it's a place that you can speak to people when you're there.
+
+[8:37] Yeah. You know, you know who I'm you know who I'm talking about, where I can't talk when I'm at your places. But you know what I mean? It's like it's you know, it's not, it's not crazy. People are people are whatever.
+
+[8:47] Yeah. Oh, you know, well, I want to live in the village where everything's happening. Exactly. But I just don't want it happening in my building. Exactly.
+
+[8:53] You know, and they're like, oh, we we're getting such a good deal on this second floor apartment. Idiot. Yes. You know what I mean? You know what I mean?
+
+[8:59] Like God. God. You know, it's like 100%. Dave, are you going to Primus? When is it?
+
+[9:07] I don't know when it is. This Saturday? Probably not. I'd like to. I'll look at it.
+
+[9:11] I'll look at it. I gotta see what I'm doing. Stasia. I am falling apart. I got so much to do.
+
+[9:17] Anyway, or hold on, hold on. Uh so uh chef, you uh doing anything new at the restaurant? Anything interesting this week that's new? We just got 200 pounds of white asparagus from California now. How big are they?
+
+[9:31] They are pretty good. But it's a second hand, it's like the second sort, so it's not it's the ugly ones we took. Oh, I know you like the ugly. Yeah, I like the to find beauty in the ugly things, the things we normally throw out. Now, when they ship that from California, because I've never really actually bought it from uh like a supplier like that.
+
+[9:49] I just buy it like a jerk in the store. But like uh do they wrap something wet around the base? No, we're getting it in a loose box. I don't like when things are wrapped in things, and I I just like when it's loose. But does it stay moist enough?
+
+[10:01] It doesn't dry out of the tip. Oh, okay, okay. So it's not like getting all don't you hate it when you see them and the bottom is like yeah, yeah. And then they wrinkles. I hate when you go to the farmer's market and you get these rattles or herbs and they have like elastic around it, and you it gets smoosed together and it's kind of destroyed when you get it to the restaurant.
+
+[10:21] So I always try to when I go when I go to the market, I always take the elastic off or the metal band around. I take it off, and everyone gets mad at me. But I like to uh I like to pre-bruise mine and then use the back of my knife to cut it. Just kidding, just kidding. Uh you know, you also had we just last week, the last couple of weeks, we had magnolia.
+
+[10:39] Was it 100 pounds? No, eighty pounds of magnolia we are solding and curing. The flowers? Flowers, yeah. Magnolia.
+
+[10:47] So many different kinds of magnolia. Do you find you have like a forager who's getting like the one that has the right smoke? Yeah, we have a couple. And but we have Tama who I wrote the book with. Um, she's bringing most of our things to the restaurant.
+
+[11:00] And then a lot of of uh our team members like to go out and forage themselves as well. Yeah, what's your favorite New York City foraging thing? I know mine, but you don't want to blow up your unless they say it's blow up your spot. But the spot, I don't have there's not such a thing as a wild spot in New York. Everything's private owned, so you have to have permits from someone.
+
+[11:20] Well, you we don't feel bad, like you don't steal from city trees. I steal from city trees all the time. Yeah, we don't. But uh Linden blossoms, shad berries, yeah, so magos. Yeah, yeah, you can you can do that, but for a restaurant, I think it's too risky.
+
+[11:35] Yeah, I think it's private. You know, we don't have to stay in the thing here, but but private is a different story. It also costs a lot because we used to pay people on our staff to go, and then you're paying that's people going to the central uh, you know, the big park, and then and take things from that central park, but it's not really legal. Yeah, you have to be careful what you do. People have yelled at me once I was um I was in Riverside Park, which is like way upper upper west, and they have a lot of berry trees up there, like a lot of like different mulberry hybrids and uh a lot of you know shad bush, June berry stuff.
+
+[12:13] And uh I'm picking mulberries, you know, because you know how every tree, what this tree sucks, that tree's good, blah blah blah. So I'm like picking a bunch of mulberries. I find a tree I like. The guy's like, you can't do that. I'm like, absolutely yes, I can, absolutely I can.
+
+[12:24] And he's like, he's like, what do you? He's like, what? I'm like, show me where I can't do this. Yeah, and he's like, uh. Because like I don't feel bad about it.
+
+[12:29] So I guess that's the thing. I like I'm not gonna feel it's fallen to the ground anyway, and rotten. So it's like you should take it, but nobody likes stepping on mulberries. No, no one. No one.
+
+[12:42] Do you do ginkgos? You forge ginkgo nuts here? I know where there's some good ginkgo trees. Yeah, for sure. You can't take from the unfortunately the one that you can't take from is the New York Botanical Garden, because they have some sick stuff that falls.
+
+[12:54] I just was there last week. My mom was visiting from Denmark, and we went to Botanic Garden in in Brooklyn. So beautiful. Oh, it's great. It's absolutely stunning.
+
+[13:03] Yeah, both of our gardens, both of our botanic gardens are great. I also really like the one in uh in Copenhagen, though. You guys have a lot of it. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, you guys have.
+
+[13:09] I remember comparing the the Danish in Copenhagen, the botanic garden there to go. Oh, in Denmark, we have this and this and this. She said it all the time when we but she gets very stressed about too many people. So this is a bad place to visit if you get to it. It was one of these days where the sun was out.
+
+[13:29] Oh, we're the worst. As soon as the sun comes out, everyone's out. It's it's like uh it's like they melt, like we melt out into the streets, and it's uh we're uh we get glued to the concrete, yeah. Yeah, you know, nostasi always you right. You always used to say you hated that uh you hated that New Yorkers like suddenly start doing stuff when the weather's nice, like do stuff when the weather's not nice, right?
+
+[13:48] Yeah, exactly. Yeah, don't be so weak. Like you don't have to worry about that out here. Yeah, because the the weather's always quote unquote nice. Yeah, but you don't and you don't have to deal with like the frenzy, you know.
+
+[14:01] Uh well, because no one's walking anywhere. That's not true. Oh, yeah? Okay. I mean, the I mean, like, okay, maybe it's better.
+
+[14:11] I don't know. Maybe it's better. The last couple times I went to LA, I tried to get walking directions and they were like, you can't. Like it literally Google was like, no, what do you mean? The walking directions are you get in the car and you drive there, hand it to the valet and walk in the front door.
+
+[14:23] Like they wouldn't even give me walking directions. Is it you're saying it's better now? It's getting better. I don't know. I have to do it.
+
+[14:32] Yeah, yeah. Um all right. So let's talk about Illis. So this restaurant, first of all, this place is huge. It's in Greenpoint, New York, which is for those of you that don't know New York, is like it's the upper.
+
+[14:50] So if you cr it's it's like upper, upper across the how would you describe Green Point? It's like it's the it's the north part of Williamsburg. Like it's just just before you go into I like into uh Long Island, you know. Yeah, and you know, 30 years ago when I was a m doing metal work for a living and uh my job was in Greenpoint, you went there and there was nothing there. It was like, you know, Polish diners, uh industrial shops, little old ladies sitting on the street, like soaking up the fumes from the industrial plant next door, and you know, like it's uh it's it's a new hot spot in a way in in in the in Brooklyn.
+
+[15:29] Yeah, you can't touch it. It used to be it it was hard to get to because only the G train went there, but now for the past fifteen years I'd say people who live in Greenpoint, they don't even want to leave Greenpoint. They don't need to. It's it's okay. It's its own community, yeah.
+
+[15:43] I really like it. I you know, we signed the lease three years ago, so and I at that time I couldn't see it. I was like, Where's what is this place? It was like I I didn't I had been to Green Point one time before before I signed the lease. Really?
+
+[15:58] That's kind of baller. Yeah, it's like it was just, you know, it was I had no clue what was this neighbors what was about. So I'm not saying you smoke, I imagine you being like, who cares where it is? No, no, no. I I went there, I went there and did some research, and and I of course I didn't want to sign anything before I really knew a little bit about it.
+
+[16:17] So I signed the lease when I had started in the neighborhood. But I put my feet there one time or two times before I actually signed the lease. And then I moved there, and then now I'm not living there anymore. But I moved there for a year to just to see it. And but it's impossible to find a good lease there.
+
+[16:33] So Yeah, everything's crazy in this freaking city. Yeah, it's it's it's very difficult with with uh leasing and and renting, yeah. So by the way, this isn't like for those of you that don't know the restaurant, look it look it up. It's not uh it's not let's say scrappy Green Point. This is a giant cavernous space that used to be like a taxi, like a like rubber factory, yeah.
+
+[16:56] Yeah, yeah, and then like but like huge, like almost like a garage-like giant envelope, like big. And uh, you know, you had the lease for three years before you opened, you built out this crazy, like uh how hard was the permitting for like because you have open fire cooking. So the whole thing started actually eight years ago in my head. I had this crazy dream about not building a restaurant but building a kitchen with a kitchen, uh sorry, with a restaurant and a bar inside of the kitchen. So basically eating inside of the kitchen.
+
+[17:31] And um this space we found could allow us to do that. And it's 4800 square feet, and basically what you do is you see everything when you come in. There's no back of house, meaning there's no this only front of house. So back of house or front of house becomes one house. And most restaurants in the city have a basement or have something that's hidden behind what you don't see.
+
+[18:00] But basically you we are completely naked in that way. Yes, for those of you that can't picture what's happening. So imagine you walk in and it's a kind of a giant center island kitchen, and then on the back wall instead of in the basement are like the walk-ins. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean we have we have uh all the walk-ins are on the wall, you can see it.
+
+[18:21] We open up the fridges, you can see the fridges. There's nothing that we can hide. The dishwasher can see it, and we can see everything. The only thing you have privacy is basically the toilets. That's it.
+
+[18:32] But um the restaurant is is very open. And I I I wanted that feeling of of I could stand we could stand anywhere in the restaurant and see everyone. Because I don't want anyone to hide. So it was kind of a feeling of being transparent and and just show this is what we what we got and this is what we want to showcase for you. So nothing is hidden in the way of when we cook, there's not we could you could see everything get good.
+
+[19:04] And it's not because we're dropping something to the floor and and we pick it up, and then you know the five second rule is like it's not happening because it's more of a three-second rule. I'm kidding. It's not happening at all. It's like we just have to be completely transparent. Well, also, you uh I mean like you're you like you make the cooks go out and do the service.
+
+[19:22] Is that actually like how's that going? Because sometimes cooks don't want to talk to people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But but basically we didn't hire any waiters. It was it was just cooks.
+
+[19:29] We have 35 cooks in in in the restaurant. And the whole idea with that is that it's the tipping. The whole thing about tipping in New York is kind of weird for me as a foreigner. But uh I wanted to make sure that everyone was paid more money. And I thought that why not if you cannot share the tip pool, you can't you can, but it's kind of not happy.
+
+[19:58] It's it's difficult. Yeah. Um so we thought, okay, why not just hire everyone as as as cooks and then the people who serve the food is actually the cooks. So we we do like this one three weeks, every three weeks we rotate the cooks. So some is on the floor and some is in is in the kitchen.
+
+[20:18] I know uh Bobby Murphy, who was uh our beverage director at My Place Existing Conditions, formerly Alinea and Aviary and all this other stuff, is your uh bar bar director, but do you also then have people rotating through his stations to do the drink execution or are they separate crew? There's a separate crew right now, but we have people that is rotating into uh his station or his bar. We will have that program up and running because I I feel everything is connected. And also the bar is connected to the kitchen, it's a part of the kitchen. So yeah, I think this is almost like a cooking school in a way you go through the whole thing of becoming a restaurateur one day because basically you you touch every if the department of the restaurant.
+
+[21:03] Yeah, I mean, like on honestly, when I went, I was like 'cause ev well, I'm I never tire of being completely wrong a hundred percent of the time. But like if you had asked me a couple of years ago, I thought that like the ability to kind of do a project like this was something in New York City in the past, just because New York City is such a pain to deal with permitting money, leases, staff. That's why it took this why it took for years. Right. But I mean like you kinda can't believe it.
+
+[21:31] There's like uh there's like mi like I don't want to say there's like millions of dollars in art on the walls. You know what I mean? Like you're lucky we had a very good neighbor, uh the Fowl School gallery um have put all the art some of the art they have in our space. So we're very lucky to have them. Have you been John yet?
+
+[21:47] No not yet. I need to go. So John, aside from being a chef, is also uh an art historian and conservationist, right? Or Historian or more both they're like more historian but d have dabbled in conservation. Well for the museum you get conservation.
+
+[22:01] So like they have like like a Baselitz like painting up there and but they're cooking with open fire in the restaurant. So it's like you're like wow how does it even yeah but like they have this huge like kind of like cloud hood thing over the center to try to but it's just like that's what I'm saying. It's like not something that you would have like uh you know like uh whatever like you know fifteen, twenty years ago you go into a restaurant, they have a giant schnabel on the wall and you're like Of course this is New York. You know what I mean? Of course they do.
+
+[22:30] You know what I mean? Cause Schnabel comes in here to he's like keep it on the wall and blah blah blah whatever. You know what I mean? F for me it's not about what of course it's important what is on the wall, but the price doesn't really matter for me. What it could be drawings from a kindergarten and and as long as I feel it's connecting to the room, I think that's important.
+
+[22:49] Right, but it's not though. It's not. Because it's also like I Weiway on the other. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's absolutely an amazing artist, you know, he he's a very big foodies owner also.
+
+[22:59] So really? Yeah, he he was in and eating. He really actually wants to come in and cook with us in the kitchen. That's so funny. Yeah.
+
+[23:06] Like what uh what does he like to eat? What kind of guest is he? I love hearing stories. He was he was, you know, had his whole family, whole Chinese family, and was there were 12 people, and it would that was so cool, so sweet. Oh man, that's nice.
+
+[23:19] Yeah, an amazing person. Really amazing person. I like they know it's his story. So next time he's on, but like uh there's only one person, there's only a couple people that why my brother in law Wiley Dufresne, like uh one of his regulars at WD was Lou Reed. So I always was like, what was Lou Reed like as a guest?
+
+[23:34] You know what I mean? Like I love, yeah, he's an amazing artist. Yeah. Anyway, so he apparently was the only guy that Wiley would make salad for regularly. Because he would, everyone's like, Wiley, you gotta make a salad.
+
+[23:45] And he's like, I'm not making a salad. Now he makes salad, but like back then, you know, he was younger, so he's like, um, no salads. Yeah what I mean? Yeah. I know.
+
+[23:56] We are very proud of us, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the older you get, the less you care about that. You still care about stuff you care about. Well, you know, we I know we cannot please everyone. It's it's it's difficult to please everyone.
+
+[24:06] But a salad, if you have sat on your house, just yeah, make it. All right. So uh I uh but I I I went for friends and family, had a fantastic time, haven't been back since. But so you now it's completely changed. Well, except for you still have the BDSM clam, right?
+
+[24:19] Yeah, yeah, we have we have a lot of yeah, we have some things as still on the menu, but we just refine it and make it better and better. Yeah, so they for those of you that don't know, this is giant like surf clam. Yeah, I mean, but it's bigger than even than a cohog. It's big. It's it's big, it's big.
+
+[24:34] It's like it makes you feel like a small child when you hold it. It's big. And and it's like sealed with wax and tied like bondage style with a with a with a flash. So it's a flask. We make a flask out of it and we fill it up with a with a drink inside of you.
+
+[24:47] You drink it. Yeah, out of the clam. And it's uh I don't know, there's something there's something sexual about it. I can't really describe why, but it's it's because it's it's because it's tied up. Yeah, I mean it's got like the wax kiss on the top.
+
+[24:59] Yeah, exactly. You have a sumac kiss on the top, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know exactly where you have to put your lips. Let's just say like that.
+
+[25:08] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that I mean, like I I had a great time with that, but that's getting a lot of place. And now that's probably like a noose around not a new, but uh uh an anchor around your neck, you probably can't get rid of it now. Because everyone's like, the clam, the clam. Yeah, everyone wants that clam.
+
+[25:20] That's true. Um, but there's some things that's good to just leave for the moment. We will take it off at some point. I I don't believe you have to stick to the past always. I think you always have to constantly push yourself to be better and better.
+
+[25:32] So it will stay on for a little bit. Right now we change the seasoning of of on the on the top of the clam, so it's like spruce chips now with the powder instead of sumac. So I saw that you got you guys got your sumac locally, right? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[25:48] You know what soup okay, I hate to say this. I've never bought sumac that I liked. No. Every sumac that I've ever bought, I've hated. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[25:56] Why is it always so bad? What do they do? I know they salt it, which ruins it, or maybe they I don't it's just terrible. The sumac that you buy is just not good. Yeah, I don't know what they do.
+
+[26:04] They do some kind of process we I think the wild sumac is the best for sure. Everything you find wild is is kind of bad. But like I think I like look, I love I like I like this. I like sumac. I don't know, we'll put it on you know, the the commercial stuff.
+
+[26:18] You put it on French fries or whatever, it's good, it's got a little bit of acidity. But if you go get it, then all of a sudden you can use it to make teas, you can use it to make drinks. It's just so much brighter. Have anyone give you wild sumac and you liked it, or is it just when you forge it yourself? Because there's also something about a memory and something about the process of finding it yourself.
+
+[26:39] That makes it better. Nastasi brought me some and it was good, right, Stars? Remember that? But to me, it you're right. It brings it brings back the memory of doing it.
+
+[26:46] But yeah, that stuff you brought me was really delicious, but it brings back, it just brings back memories of doing it. You know what I hate though? You know how sometimes sumac is not good? Like you have to taste the you have to taste the the actual tree before you take it, because some of it's tasteless. Yeah, for sure.
+
+[27:01] You know? Here we get mainly staghorn. Is that the one that you get the furry one? Yeah, we mainly game that. What about in Denmark?
+
+[27:08] What do they have? Is it the smoother one or the furry one? I don't remember. I haven't been there. I haven't forgotted for for like 14 years now.
+
+[27:14] Sumac's one of my favorite. The other thing you mentioned actually in the book, which I didn't see a recipe for it, but I really like is spice bush, Lindera Benzle. But you could use the whole thing there, also the bread. The leaves, yeah, yeah. It's very aromatic.
+
+[27:27] Like I used to make it when you walk through the wood, you just grab some spice, crinkle it up and smell it as you walk in. Yeah, but it's very aromatic and then very strong. Yeah, it's related to it. But you have to be careful with it because you can really overpile. Yeah.
+
+[27:38] You know what the other thing I found? I was gonna ask you about it when I saw that you used it, is um I like it better fresh. I haven't I I tried drying it once and it it lost something. It got almost like uh fresh is the best way, but they also be pickling it. Oh, that's a good idea.
+
+[27:56] I didn't like it dried so much. We don't dry it. We uh we're pickling and curing it. We also smoked it, and yeah, we've done a lot of things with it. For those of you that don't know, it's it's you search it out.
+
+[28:08] If you live in the East Coast and you live in a in a place kind of with bad soil, a lot of water, like uh I used to get it. There was a lot of like uh hickory oak oak birch kind of area, low-lying, a lot of sassafras and lendera benzuin, which is the spice bush. Look for it. It's great. It's absolutely great.
+
+[28:28] Once you see it, you're gonna see it everywhere. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's like almost like not wheat. Yeah, exactly.
+
+[28:34] And if my memory serves me, like the leaves uh uh the uh if my memory serves me that there's male and female trees, but I can't remember, so you have to look to make sure you get the ones with the with the berries on them. But the leaves are also good. And the smell is the branch is is is amazing. Yeah. Making oil out of that, it's great.
+
+[28:51] Oh, you know what? We're telling us like uh so Kevin from Gnome was saying, so he you've done it with the spice bush and it's good. Same thing, like overnight in steam with bullion oil. Mm-hmm. And you split it or do you chum it?
+
+[29:00] Do you have to be a little bit more? We try it. We almost like put it through a grounder, and it's like get into powder and we put it into not pounded, but into small pieces, and then we put it into the oil. And we toast it a little bit and we put in oil and steam it overnight. Are you using first-year shoots or any any part of it?
+
+[29:15] Young shoots is the best. Which is good because it's a scraggly little tree and you know, shrub tree, and like it's got a lot of new shoots every year. So it's good. And you're not hurting it really. You know what I mean?
+
+[29:27] It's gonna come back. Uh I used to love those. I love those things. Like uh, I miss that place that I used to have with all that stuff. Anyway, um another question.
+
+[29:36] I saw in a recipe that you did a thing uh in the book where you toasted the wood chips. I'm gonna say it was apple because I don't remember, and then used that uh as a steep in the broth and strain out later. So how hard are you toasting that? Does it really get like a smoky no-not? Because I've I've obviously depends what wood you're using.
+
+[29:55] Right now we have oak, uh like an aerated oak mousse on the menu. We're basically taking it off very soon. But it's uh it's a sweet dessert we're making out of oak wood. And um we toast that in the oven. What is it?
+
+[30:09] I don't know the scent. I always do the the Scandinavian way of so it's like a hundred and seventy-five uh degrees. It's like three fifty or so? Something like that, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[30:19] And we toast it there, and and then after that we steep it into cream and we make this aerated mousse. And you're using the wood or the bark or both? Just wood. Wood chips we get we're buying. Yeah, but I noticed in the book you called out shag bark hickory, uh, which is the bark is fantastic.
+
+[30:35] Yeah, yeah, hickory is amazing. Yeah, yeah, it's a great product. Uh the nuts are such a pain in the butt though. Do you ever you're gonna use no, no, no, we don't use that. It's such a pain.
+
+[30:43] It's it's too difficult. It's too much work. Although you know what they used to do locally, um, like uh, you know, pre pre uh colonial is they would just smash they would smash the hickory nuts and then make the hickory milk and then strain the strain out the the what's it? It tastes delicious, but it's a lot of manpowers and labor in in i it's very it's what kills uh restaurant business. Yeah, I know.
+
+[31:09] Hickory is God's nut though. It really is. Oh, speaking of I was gonna ask you, because I know you like uh like local stuff. You're gonna do shad? Yeah, we probably would.
+
+[31:17] You gotta find you gotta train someone to do the magic fillet. Yeah. Have you seen the magic fillets? Incredible. Yeah.
+
+[31:25] Yeah. I mean, like no, and no one does it. No. They're amazing. You know what I mean?
+
+[31:29] You pick up the shad and it it's weird, falls apart. You gotta do it. Yeah, it could be. But like uh that's super local. I don't know anyone who sells it commercially, who sells it commercially, though.
+
+[31:37] I only know how to get it from Connecticut Fisher people. I don't know who would do that. Maybe we are working with these guys. Uh Dr. Dish from uh Montauk, amazing.
+
+[31:44] Maybe they could do it. Or maybe they could find someone because it's a ri it's a that's the thing. It's like it's it goes in the river, that's when you get it, and it's like it's just a good fish. It just tastes so good. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[31:59] You know, everyone's like, oh, this the row, the row, the row's good. You would use it all according to the book. You'd use the whole day. Yeah. But I like the meat.
+
+[32:07] Uh all right. So uh what am I missing? What am I not asking you about? Uh oh, you know what I've never had that you also mentioned in the book is, and I've said this on this air a billion times. I've never had a pawpaw.
+
+[32:18] This guy behind me, John, was like, they're selling pawpaws at the at the at the uh farmer's market in Brooklyn. I was like, did you buy it? He's like, no. No. Jerk.
+
+[32:28] Papau is amazing, but it's also very time limit. It's only for two weeks. I think I went on a Wednesday, Dave, and I wasn't gonna see him until Tuesday. Uh-huh. Yeah, and then uh I like papa, but it's not my favorite fruit, but it's kind of crazy this grows in in New York.
+
+[32:44] It's it's a mix between a mango and banana almost. That's what I hear. Yeah, it is. A very strong perfume. The the most tropical fruit that I've ever grown on like area around here is uh may apple.
+
+[32:58] Yeah, may apple, okay, yeah. But of course it's poisonous until it's ripe. So people get people get and then animals eat the hell out of it as soon as it gets ripe animals. I think papao is more like tropical in a way. It's not tropical because it's growing here, but it feels like it's a tropical fruit.
+
+[33:14] Yeah. Yeah. May Apple, I guess, is a little guava-y, yeah, yeah, it is. Yeah, yeah. But delicious.
+
+[33:19] Yeah, I loved it. But you can't get it. That one I've never seen anyone uh oh also. I noticed in your book, you refrigerate your fancy oil. That's smart.
+
+[33:26] I wish I had room in my refrigerator. Refrigerates is walnut oil and whatnot. Walnut oil, every nut oil will be refrigerated. Why don't you do that? Because I don't have space in my fridge.
+
+[33:29] I do that too. No, at the restaurant we have this nut press, you know, we'll be getting we're squeezing oil oils, every no oil or seed oil, we're doing that every day. The little one, the the one that in also does sesame. Is it any good? It's great.
+
+[33:49] Invest in in a good one. It's it's between 500 and a thousand dollars. It's it's absolute amazing. Like how much can you do a day? Oh, you could do a lot.
+
+[33:57] Like we produce what is maybe 300 milliliters of every kind of oil every day. Yeah, you know, because like some some oils are never ever good when you buy them. No, no, for sure not. Like, no offense, pumpkin seed oil people, but it's always already rancid by the time I get it. You know what I mean?
+
+[34:13] It will change your your life. It's it's really night and day. Yeah. Now I have FOMO. Now you're giving me FOMO, Chef.
+
+[34:21] I hate FOMO, and you know what my wife hates more than my FOMO is equipment. Yeah, there's nothing better than just fresh like a haze nut oil. It's just absolutely amazing. Yeah, yeah. Do you uh do you always do raw or do you pre-toast?
+
+[34:34] It depends what what dish we're using for, but uh right now is it's toasted. You know what I've never figured out and I've asked Harold McGee. Hazelnuts are the weirdest. By the way, I don't think there's a difference between a filbert and hazelnut. I think it's the same damn nut.
+
+[34:47] I think so too, yeah. Yeah. But when you toast a when you toast one, the inside gets darker than the outside. And I don't know why. No one can tell me why.
+
+[34:55] There's something on that very you know how the center, that little center hole. That's true, yeah. It's weird, right? It's like you don't know you've overtoasted the hazelnut until you break it and you look at the center and you're like, I overtoasted it. Yeah, yeah, you're right.
+
+[35:06] That's weird. That's weird. Yeah. Strange stuff. Who knows?
+
+[35:11] Who knows? Uh all right. Here's one of the questions looking at your book. Uh what vegetables do you think Americ I know what I think Americans should use more, but as someone who came here and you and now you have to deal with New York, although you say you like New York produce. What do you think we should use more?
+
+[35:25] I wish there was better white asparagus. Yeah, it's it's it's expensive to produce white asparagus. But now I found this growing in in LA, and uh uh it's absolutely amazing, but it's still in LA and it's almost the same as taking them from Denmark, but it's still in this country. So I feel it's okay. But uh white asparagus for sure, that's one of my favorite vegetables.
+
+[35:51] How much do you have to peel off of the ones you get? You take basically half of it off. Yeah, yeah. Because it's woody in the end, so you have to you peel it and you take the old school snap. I can't bear my I can't bear to do it.
+
+[36:02] I just keep cutting until it's not until I know you know if I throw away even a top, I guess you're not, you're using it for something else. No, we right now we're preserving it. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Uh and wait.
+
+[36:12] So you were in the book you also say, you know, again, I don't I don't deal with leaks because triggering, but like you fry the the roots on a leek and they're good. They're great, yeah. They're good. Yeah. And uh in the tops, if you cook them enough, they get soft, they don't stay stringy forever.
+
+[36:27] No, no, no, they would get completely soft. Uh all right. I don't cook with them because uh I don't know, like I say, I love them the taste of them. I love the taste of them. Basically, the whole book was I came to New York in 2012.
+
+[36:40] And um and I just saw all this food waste. There was so much people throwing out. So I thought, okay, let's find a way of maybe. It's I feel like as chef, you have to, it's your you have a responsibility to to teach from you. If I know something you don't know, I feel like somehow I need to get this knowledge to someone else.
+
+[37:03] So we wrote this book about all these pieces that we were throwing about. It's always like what a fish got or fish eyes or anything on the fish. In you know, in the more like in China and all the other places in the world, they don't throw things out. So why not try to teach their other people how they do? They have a bloodline recipe.
+
+[37:26] Yeah, for sure. But it was like all the roots of vegetables. Yeah, let's let's use that, or the scales on the fish, let's use that. And but it you know, it it started also back in the day at Noma, you know, he was doing all the trash cooking also that way. So it was inspiration also that came from that time.
+
+[37:44] But in in Denmark, we just didn't throw things out the same way as we've thrown out in the United States. Well, you think it's like a winter mentality, is what you wrote in the book. It's like, you know, gotta shore up for winter, can't throw this stuff away. Yeah, yeah, for sure. But uh, you know what else I like about the book is you include testers' notes, like what the tester said about the recipe was like which is kind of interesting.
+
+[38:05] I don't know if I've ever seen that before. Like like an input from the testers uh back in the recipe. Yeah, I think you know it was my first real book, so it was like it was kind of cool doing that, but it I didn't even know that someone had to taste test my recipes after I did it. So you're like, I did it. Why do I need someone to test it?
+
+[38:25] Yeah, but um it was kind of necessary, and I think it was good. Yeah, I mean why not? The recipes I'm gonna try out of that book are and by the way, like Bobby Murphy's doing your stuff now, but then on the cocktails in the book, he worked with Reynolds, who was that booker in Dax back in the day. So, like a lot a lot of connections there. Yeah, yeah, he's a cool guy, yeah.
+
+[38:43] Uh, that's down in my neighborhood. The uh oh, also, yeah, before I get into the thing, I was actually gonna say, so we always have this problem. Whenever I have a bar, we go through a lot of bananas, and we can't buy bananas that are ripe, right? So we buy them when they're green, and then we stick them in our boiler room, which we're not supposed to do until the flies come, and then and then we process them, right? Because otherwise you're you're being dumb.
+
+[39:07] I don't know. You know what I mean? Like for what we're doing. We need the flavor of a ripe banana. So in the book, you say that you went into a shop, right?
+
+[39:14] And I just can't even believe this. And you're like, first of all, like kudos to walk up to a manager and be like, what the hell? Don't you have a banana that's worth anything here? I don't want to wait a week. I'm cooking today.
+
+[39:24] I'm not cooking in a week. You know what I mean? It's like uh, you know, now you can buy avocados almost all the time that are ready at all different levels of avocado. But bananas, you cannot buy a ripe banana anywhere in this city ever. So you walk in and you're like, what the hell?
+
+[39:38] And he takes you in back. They take you in back, and it's like stacks of of ripe bananas, and you're like, what the hell? Good thing you said they're not throwing them away, they're sending them to a food bank or whatever, but like I wish they would just have like like a little container up front of like ready to go bananas. You know what I mean? That's a crazy story.
+
+[39:56] You think that a lot of supermarkets are like that? I can go be like, give me the good ones, give me the ones that work. I think there's a lot of supermarkets doing that for sure. They always keep the good stuff anyway. Because like, you know, and also like whenever you do a demo, like I don't do that demo away because I know that the bananas are gonna be garbage.
+
+[40:12] I know I'm gonna show up and the banana's gonna be flavorless, starchy, you know. Oh, nightmare. Uh all right, so uh you have a lot of recipes for wheat brand. I have so much wheat brand in my house. So my question is on the wheat brand ice cream.
+
+[40:27] So with most of these things, you're toasting the wheat brand and then using them as a steep. So you, I don't know whether you did this with Reynolds or not, but like you do a wheat wheat brand whiskey, which I'm gonna try. I tried making a wheat brand syrup. I think he came up with that recipe. I don't remember the recipe.
+
+[40:39] Yeah. I did a wheat branch syrup and I didn't get enough wheat bran in. But I think if I had done it in the liquor, so you're getting a two-ounce pour instead of like a half ounce or a three-eighths. Because I I was doing a wheat bran syrup, so then obviously the tea, the wheat brand tea, is only like 0.615% of the syrup, and then you're only using like three-eighths of an ounce of that into a two-ounce pourer for an old-fashioned. So it's not enough bran.
+
+[41:05] But putting it in the whiskey is maybe smarter. Maybe I'll try it. I have so much bran in my house. Yeah. I'm constantly sifting flour, and I have like, you know.
+
+[41:12] Use it for a nucleopod. I did it, and it with wheat, because I only have wheat bran, uh some rye. But like uh it uh it is great for like five, six weeks, like maybe, and then it goes bad on me. I don't know why I have to do it. Yeah, but it's you know Effine, that's the living, you know, you can keep on feeding it and and change it and just make sure you have basically you have to feed it with bacteria on your hands.
+
+[41:37] That's really the the recipe, but in in here we cannot do that. We have to use gloves and all this. So at home, you can feed it with your just make sure you have clean hands, of course, but use it, use uh your hands. And I think my temperature in my kitchen maybe is too high. That could be, yeah.
+
+[41:54] That could be one of the reasons. You know, like I gotta I don't know, see what the optimum temperature is and do it. Because I want to I want to do that again because I have literally like I I hate to say it. I for a while I would save it, I would have gallon bags, like gallon bags of brand. You know what I mean?
+
+[42:09] Yeah, do the nougat pot. That that would be great. And you can keep all your root vegetables in it. Yeah, you know what tastes bad is trying to just make a cereal out of just the brand. You know, like onto that.
+
+[42:18] Yeah, online, they're like, Go, you could just put some honey into it and like it make no. It's terrible. It's the driest thing you're doing. Yeah, you don't want to do that. No.
+
+[42:26] Yeah, how's the wheat brand ice cream? That's the one I want to try. Quinn, you might have to be. It's great. You toast it, yeah.
+
+[42:31] It's good. It's uh it's toasty good. If you haven't tasted wheat brand before, it's it's it's difficult to explain, but it's you have. So it's kind of a toasty good taste, yeah. Yeah, and for those of you that don't know, the brand and the germ are different, although when I have bran, it has germ in it because I can't I'm not separating.
+
+[42:50] So when you commercially mill a flour on rollers, they pop the germ off separately, and the brand comes off in flakes and they go into two streams. But if you mill your own stuff, the germ and the bran and a little bit of the endosperm are part of the brand fraction. So it's the commercial stuff is a little bit different from the stuff you make yourself. What do you got, Quinn? What are you saying?
+
+[43:10] I was gonna say so is the recipe just like a steep of the bran in the milk or the dairy rather. I believe, yes, I believe it's in the cream. Uh uh, I wrote it down here, but I can't read it because the type is too small and my glasses aren't on. But yeah, yeah. Yeah, basically just steep it into any dairy you can imagine.
+
+[43:31] Well, it could also be into water and you can make a soul out of it, but it it's just to get the flavor out of it. Yeah, I would say you need to press the ever loving out of it though, right? Because it absorbs a lot. A lot, yeah. Yeah, so you have to just press the ever loving snot out of the stuff.
+
+[43:43] Yeah, with with with the homemade brand, would you have to like bring it up to a certain temperature to gelatinize like the trace tender sperm, or would you want to avoid that? Why would you want to gelatinize the starch into it? Wouldn't you want to avoid that? We warm up. We warm up the the milk all to get it out.
+
+[44:07] And then we press it after. You know what's a godsend? Nut milk bags. Yeah. They're so good and they're so cheap now.
+
+[44:16] Uh they're so good. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because you can just be so rough with them. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[44:21] It's great. You know? My only issue is that I I wear uh, you know, the old school. Yeah, yeah. Well, but do you spend the well you probably spend we have a lot of them, yeah.
+
+[44:30] But you buy the real ones, I buy the cheap ones because I'm cheap. No, we we buy the real ones. Yeah, you're more like uh you're more like uh boardwalk. I'm more like I I'm not Baltic Avenue, I'm like Connecticut Avenue, but I'm trying to be like Case Place. It's just it lasts longer.
+
+[44:45] Yeah. I don't care about the brand, but it's it's more just when you some I think when you buy quality is like it will stay for a longer time. The to me, the downfall of the cheap ones that I get that I buy is uh the sewing lines on the edge. There's little holes and sometimes they goes out. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[45:05] That's the main to me. They don't seal the they don't tape seal the edges. But you can do if you just leave it in the bag and just strip if you have plenty of time. Yeah, then you can Chef, come on. You could use that.
+
+[45:15] If you have to go fast, you have to probably get some Do I seem like someone with that kind of patience to you? Uh another recipe I want to try, by the way. So like when this book came out when 2017, a while ago, yeah. Yeah, so in that time, actually a little bit before that, maybe 2015 was like the era of I know you like beets. Nastasi and I are a little bit triggered by beats because we used to go to a restaurant that served us giant chunks of undercooked beets.
+
+[45:38] Remember that, Stas? Yeah, horrible. Horrible. Yeah. I like beets, but like sometimes I have issues with them.
+
+[45:46] But do you remember? I don't want to say it's so like 2014, I like beets, but like the par dehydrated beet, which are delicious. I first had it uh at like the 10th anniversary WD 50. I don't know who came up with the idea originally. I really don't.
+
+[46:00] It wasn't me or anyone that I know. But like they're delicious, the par dehydrated beets. So you have a lot of these par dehydrated things like ones that I hadn't known, like carrot raisins. How hard how so you say to reconstitute them, but when you dehydrate a carrot, are you taking it down so I can still eat it like a la minute or if it's getting too hot, if you dehydrate it too much, you could just always put it into some kind of liquid. Any kinds of being becoming moist again at all, chew like chewy.
+
+[46:26] We want the chewy flavor, like that feeling of uh what I don't know what you call it, uh uh wine gum. Yeah, yeah. Oh, wine gums are delicious, man. Good call out of maintenance wine gums. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[46:35] You kind of want that feeling. Uh I think we also had carrots uh chewy carrots before we take them and dehydrate them. Um but the beets uh uh absolutely amazing when you you dehydrate them into this kind of a raisin. Yeah, they're a better product. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[46:52] I think. And then uh so but the carrots, you're doing a quick parboil in uh sugar water, right? Until it's like just and then you pull it and you you have them in like uh like you call them logs and they're I don't know what that is. You cut them out in small dices. And then uh you take them down and then they're semi stable.
+
+[47:14] Yeah. And yeah, you you dehydrate them into a raisin into the go into the half size. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that idea. Uh all right, let's see.
+
+[47:23] See, uh, I'm sure some of our let's get to some user, some listener questions, which you might have some. What? Uh I I had a question. What's up? Yeah, it's for med, you know, there's a lot of like trend of fine dining restaurants, but also incorporate you know live fire cooking.
+
+[47:45] When you're imagining a dish or a menu, are you trying to like balance old techniques with more modern techniques? Or in your mind, is it more just like all one toolbox? So illis means fire and ice in Danish. So it's a combination of these two words, ill and is so that's that's the whole name of the restaurant. So basically when we we don't think about dishes in in we think about ingredients, and it's also how you are choosing your menu at it is so every ingredients we have on the menu, I always think about a fire dish and a raw dish.
+
+[48:31] So asparagus right now, for example, green asparagus, we have a raw asparagus dish with fresh cheese, and then we have a grilled asparagus dish on. So it's always I always think it can go both ways. What do you what do you think of that purple asparagus worth anything or just a gimmick? Yeah. I like purple uh asparagus, but it's doesn't taste better than a green one.
+
+[48:57] I don't think it does either. I think but you also eat with your eyes. So if you but if you're colorblind anyway, so it doesn't it doesn't matter what color it is. So I think a purple asparagus, yeah, it tastes great, but uh greensburgers tastes as as good. I mean they try to pretend that it's sweeter, but I don't think it is.
+
+[49:14] Yeah, I don't feel it is no, you know, don't taste a different really. The only different is white and green. I feel like that's the that's the difference, really a big difference. Oh, another thing I think it's funny in the book is you say like you're you include like uh which things to take home from restaurants and which not to take over from restaurants and like to repurpose, which I thought was funny, and you list out like a pretty basic pantry of stuff you have for go to. I think every cookbook, of course I'm not gonna do it, but I think everyone should just list like here's the stuff that I always have on hand so that I can bam cook, you know what I mean?
+
+[49:49] And it's not it's super crazy extensive, you know what I mean? Something something reasonable. Here's a question uh from Math Man, longtime uh listener writes in that chef, maybe you have some opinions on. I'd love some advice on what to do with 30 pounds of white fish, unstated white fish. White fish.
+
+[50:05] So I'm assuming like when someone just says white fish, what do they mean? It can be so many different things. Yeah, they mean flatfish or they mean like a chub, like a mackerel. No, that's not a I I think it's more flat fish, like more like fluke, that type of halibut easy. It could also be sea bass, for example.
+
+[50:20] Yeah, fluke. Um anyway. I started out with about 50 pounds from a fishing trip. Yeah, fishing trip. So it's flat, definitely probably a flat fish.
+
+[50:26] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I started out with about 50 pounds from a fishing trip, and I'm sick of breaded, baked, fried, broiled, and steamed. What are some ways I can use this fish in more flavorful ways? So you have a lot of fish to start with. Um either you you cannot use it all at the same time, of course, or you have to have a big dinner party.
+
+[50:47] But um I will split it out in different ways, of course. You can salt it, cure it, so you have that, and you can smoke it. Of course, freeze it and you can take it out of the freezer when you need it later on. But for me, I I will probably cure it and so and and and smoke. I have never cured my own fish.
+
+[51:07] How stinky is it? Oh, so we had a very have a very I've cured like locks, but I've never done like I know, but I can see we are eating fish in the restaurant. So we have a tuna on the menu right now. Um basically we just took it off, it cops on again. But we when we open up the restaurant, we for Friends of Family, for example, we got so much tuna in to the restaurant.
+
+[51:30] We couldn't use it. So we cured it with uh seaweed and salt, and we start using it here the last past month. So we actually had a fish that was like five to six months old. It was almost like the tuna was almost like two it's like ham. Huh.
+
+[51:46] So we had that on for a while. So but so is it mean that you can only that it's like it's delicious, but you can only tolerate like a little bit of it? Like it's like salt. It's it's almost like a yeah, like a a ham, like uh cured Ibeago ham, black foot ham. So it's like you don't want to eat tons of it, but you can you can every bite you want actually a little bit more because like umami is so s so amazing.
+
+[52:12] Yeah, do you uh I there are tuna things like that where I'm like I like it a lot, but like I like I can't imagine having infinity of it, like tuna heart. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. But right now, you know, I think this becomes became a a signature thing for us. Now right now we just got what was it, five tuna in into the restaurant? That's a lot.
+
+[52:32] Yeah, five big tuners, but it was we're using a whole loin for a week. So we have to be ahead of our game. How many covers a night? Right now, we're doing around Tuesday and Wednesday, we're doing around 60 to 70. And then Thursday, Friday and Saturday, we do around 80 to 100 people.
+
+[52:53] Yeah, so it's a lot of tuna. That's a lot of tuna. It's a lot of tuna, yeah. Yeah. So what I'm curious because, like, you know, look, there's obviously so much experimentation going on from uh, you know, ingredient coming, different ingredients coming in, using ingredients, like you know, the cooks running the, you know, running the service, like all of these, you know, the all this live fire stuff, like it's a lot of like pushing envelope going on.
+
+[53:19] What is it, and whenever you do that, some things you're gonna do, you're gonna be like, oh no, that that that was a mistake. And then change it as you go. Like, what have you found has been the biggest changes you've had to make? I think we have been we've been sticking to the idea of of creating this one house uh feeling. Um what we have changed, yeah, in the in the so it's not a set menu.
+
+[53:47] Everyone had like an idea, I will move this fine dining restaurant that was like one set menu only. Um and uh it's just not the way I I like to eat anymore. So I really just want to do a card where it becomes more like you choose your own set menu. So you have the choices into creating your own set menu. So we we we basically have a big cart, like a big uh tray of food that comes in in front of you, and that's uh 12 ingredients, and you can every every ingredient can go two to three different ways, and you choose your own adventure from there.
+
+[54:27] Do you have those books growing up? Yeah, yeah but in the beginning also the snacks was not a part of that so you chose your thing you you your venture and after that a snack card came up and uh because sometimes I just don't want snacks I didn't want this little clam and you know the flask it's not little but yes yeah it's big but but but but I didn't want you know sometimes I just don't want these things so I wanted to give everyone a choice for that when but it was kind of we cannot just give that away so it have to be you have to pay extra for that so we took that away there was a one one of the things that we really liked was was that whole like hard snack appetizers thing uh we were was running around in the the dining room but we could just not do it because it was too much work there was like three people every day that had to set up this card and then and run it around and and and charge extra it was like it felt wrong. So we took that away and now now it's just a part of of uh the menu so everyone that comes in there it will get that experience and just get all the snacks. And so the problem with charging extra was it felt like too much commerce happening during the service part yeah and it was yeah it was too much it took just too long and also of course labor was like a big big issue. And a lot of these things all these snacks in the end of service we had so much things it was if you didn't sell it we have to throw it out because it was pre made so we lost a lot of ingredients so we just had to change and a shift people like that.
+
+[55:58] So it's also a rule that is everyone knows whether it's serving because they have tasted it. So yeah, definitely everyone knew about the the snacks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So uh and is it still like so in friends and family, like so we choose your own adventure, you go in, there's ingredients, but like it was when I went like two sides of the menu, like the hot side and the cold side, and you had to go change also. Oh, yeah, yeah.
+
+[56:21] Now we have two menus. We have one, like let's cook for you, it's the field guide. So it's between 10 and 14 dishes, depends on what is on the market. Um, and that's basically if you don't want to choose, and just let us choose. And then we have the market menu, and that's four sections, four selections from you, and you have to choose your own four ingredients, and then you can add on to it, and each ingredient costs $25 extra.
+
+[56:49] And that includes four choices from you, and then free, no, was it free appetizer, free snacks, and then two desserts. So basically it's a seven course menu somehow. But you choose if you want to just go fish or vegetables or or meat. And what percentage of people do the 50-50. Yeah.
+
+[57:08] 5050. Hey John, get this. You ready for this? Ready. So they sign the lease in, I guess 2020, 2020.
+
+[57:16] And immediately start putting down uh preserves and veg. So you have like two, three years of like starting stock. So yeah, right. Yeah. But the plan is what we but we didn't we didn't plan it to have to take three years to open up the restaurant.
+
+[57:32] It was like I had this dream for so long. And but then we signed the lease and it thought, okay, it will take a year or something, you know. No, yeah. But then COVID hit and all this happened, and everything just became more expensive. Two more minutes.
+
+[57:46] We could go, yeah. So after that, it just took two more years than they planned. And so we just start pr preserving and start building up a lab. So, like, had you already how much of your staff we could you like? It's so hard to lock in staff when you're doing like a three-year problem.
+
+[58:04] You know what I mean? It's like almost impossible. We had all the managers, so but also we were very clever in a way of saying, okay, we cannot fully hire you before we know okay, this will happen in half a year. Because talk about lighting money on fire, hiring your staff too early. You know what I mean?
+
+[58:18] It's like yeah. But we we did like two months of friends of family and then private events and all this. We did that. So it was not just because all the waiters was thrown in front, all the cooks was thrown in front of the dining room, and then you know they had some some training. Oh, I'm sure.
+
+[58:35] No, it's it's uh it's quite an experience. Like I say, it's like uh I hadn't expected someone could open as high concept a place as this these days just because there's so many barriers. Like we didn't you didn't really like the permitting for the open fire must have just been a complete nightmare. It's very, very difficult. Oh, the whole the whole open kitchen have been you know an issue because I just wanted to make people feel they're part of the dining experience.
+
+[58:59] So as someone who uh someone who is like you know, uh adopting us as a home in New Yorker, when you come in there and you're trying to do this, and then like a New York City inspector comes in and just has the New York City, yeah. Very difficult, yeah. It's very difficult, yeah. Because you're like, don't he's like, I don't care, man. I don't care.
+
+[59:15] Where's the answer? You're like, well, you know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean? It's like it's difficult. Yeah, we're it's very difficult to have this kind of restaurant in New York.
+
+[59:23] I imagine it's impossible. So you should stop by uh Illis. You should uh get the book, which is scraps, wilt, and weeds from Kitchen Arts and Letters with a Patreon discount. Also, going back, we still have the uh discount code uh for Glass Fan. Glass fan, yeah.
+
+[59:38] You guys have your own glasses that you're made by a local artisan here in Brooklyn, right? It's amazing, yeah. Very fancy. Uh 10% off, and then Patreon gets more if you go on. Uh Chef Mads Wrestling, thank you so much for coming on.
+
+[59:50] Uh come back anytime. Yeah. Cooking issues. Thank you.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Harold, your host of Cooking News, coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, New York City, Rockefeller Center, New Stand Studios, joined as usual with uh John behind me. How are you doing, John? Doing great, thanks. Yeah.
+
+[0:22] Got uh Joe rocking the panels. How you doing? I'm doing real well, man. Great to see a full stack studio. Yeah.
+
+[0:27] So Joe wants me to go back on the mic, but now I realize for the first time in my life that we got a squeaky mic stand. So it made like we gotta like. I'll fix it. We can't win. I'm gonna pull it again.
+
+[0:37] You guys are gonna hear a squeak. There you go. Uh over there in the upper upper left, we got Quinn. How you doing? I'm good.
+
+[0:46] Yeah? Good, good. Glad to hear it. Good to have you back on uh regular and then travel down the coast down to Los Angeles. We got uh Nastasia the Hammer Lopez.
+
+[0:54] How you doing? Great. You sound it. Sound fantastic, Nastasia. What about uh Jackie Molecules?
+
+[1:02] He always has a brighter sounding tone. You also in LA today, Jack. Uh I am. I was just got back from New Orleans. Oh, nice.
+
+[1:08] New Orleans is. Oh, that's right. We gotta talk about it. We'll talk about that in a minute. And live in our studio, but from London.
+
+[1:14] So we'll take it that we're spanning the entire region from Vancouver Island all the way to London. Uh Dina Bagum, uh, who's uh promoting her new book made in Bangladesh, and tomorrow doing a uh a thing with the Museum of Food and Drink. Uh welcome. Thank you. Love to be here.
+
+[1:31] Yeah, yeah. Well, so before I forget, because I will forget, normally right now we're gonna go into like kind of what we did over the past week, but why don't you, for those who are listening live on Patreon, because you know it goes free on Friday, but for Patreon listeners who happen to be in New York, why don't you tell them what you're doing tomorrow with the museum? So tomorrow I'll be at the Museum of Food and Drink, chatting with Mayuks Sen. So we're having a conversation on flavors of Bangladesh cuisine and just generally flavors. Um and it'll be a really fun event with snacks, Bangladesh Snacks, which unfortunately I haven't cooked, but it'll be fun.
+
+[2:00] So uh what's next? So I think we're getting Bangladeshi samosas and some lassi. Um I think everyone's familiar with lassi and hopefully some other snacks that um Casey's organizing at the museum. And there'll be a book signing and just kind of you know meeting people. So it'll be like a fun event from 6:30 onwards tomorrow.
+
+[2:18] And what's the uh what's the name? Uh because you give a recipe for in your book. What's the name for the Bangladeshi samosa that uses? So Bangladesh samosas are Singara's. So there's a recipe in the book, and it's literally handmade pastry with Narjella seeds in the pastry, and then it's a spicy potato mixture with Bengali 5 spice, which includes mustard, Nagella seeds, cumin, fennel, and fenugreek.
+
+[2:39] Yeah, well, yeah. You know, as I as I say, how many times have I said this, John, that fenigreek is a spice I wish I cooked with more. Every time I smell it, every time I smell it, I'm like, oh, I love fenigreek, and then I don't cook with it. So good. Yeah, you know what?
+
+[2:49] It it is one of those spices that you have to be kind of you have particular dishes for it. We put it in a kind of a stew or a porridge called Kitchuri. There's also a recipe in there, but that one doesn't use it. But there's two versions, like a dry version, and then there's a kind of like a porridge version, and it's such a nice flavor when you put the seeds into the kind of the porridge. And how close is that dish to the Maggie Thatcher style kegeri English thing?
+
+[3:12] Completely different, like not even related. I mean it's related by name, right? Yeah. Like it was like stolen in the city. Kichuri or Kejeri, but um, or kitshi in India.
+
+[3:21] So you have regional variations, but definitely not close, and we don't put fish in it. Oh no fish. It's purely vegetarian dish, so with the rice and lentils and sometimes veggies. Nice, nice. All right, well, so anyway, so this is the point.
+
+[3:31] I mean, you've been on the road, so have you had any interesting culinary experiences over the past week? Um, well, I just got in here actually yesterday, but then I've been kind of I uh I have had expert interesting experiences yesterday. Just I tried tacos um at to this taco, is that how you say it? Um in uh jazz of city, which was really nice. So I haven't really I told my friends I hadn't tried tacos, like a good taco.
+
+[3:53] You can't really get them in London, but now they may be, but it's a new thing. People are really into buried tacos and things. But that was really nice actually. So trying papa tacos. And what's what style of taco was it?
+
+[4:03] Uh it was beef, and I think it was a fried fish one, uh, fish tacos. Um you're stepping into a little bit of a minefield because there's a bunch of people who hate on Mexican food on our side of the co anyway, it's a whole thing, but I'm glad you enjoyed the tacos. It was good. See, I can't say I'm an expert. I don't know anything about it.
+
+[4:21] I just went along with everybody. So like all of our LA team is like, Moo tacos is cool. LA next. So hopefully can let me know. So these guys can let you know where to go in LA to get uh to get some good uh get some good tacos.
+
+[4:34] Uh what about you guys? What about the rest of the cooking issues crew? What do you got for me in the week? Uh yeah, like I said, just back from New Orleans. So where do you end up going?
+
+[4:43] I need to eat out there. Wait, where'd you end up going? Well my God, everywhere. We went for Jazz Fest, which we've never done before, and that was uh an interesting time and a good time. But otherwise we did, you know, Ducky Chase and Um Herb Saint and what's uh Donald Link's other place.
+
+[5:01] Um, of gumbo. Is Cushon still good? It's still good, stays good. That's kind of like oh yeah. That's been solid for like 10, 12 years or however long it's been there, it's been pretty solid.
+
+[5:15] You know what I mean? Yeah, they had this like uh crawfish empanada thing, like a fried crop crop fish pie, and it was unbelievable. Um did you have any uh of the gumbo? I have a query? What I have a question for you about gumbo.
+
+[5:30] Um how do you prefer your gumbo? Because we we had so much gumbo this week, and my girlfriend likes it thinner. I like a more like thick roux. I am agnostic, but I do like okra. So I know some people like fillet and okra, and some people are like filet, but like I like I like them all, but I am agnostic as to the thickness.
+
+[5:51] I it like if it's thin and under flavored, that's a no. That's no, right? So if it's just thin, see, when you say thin, you make it sound like it tastes thin. Like, is it just a thinner because they're very highly flavored, not as thick items, right? But thin is also a taste descriptor.
+
+[6:09] You know what I'm saying? Not thin in taste, thin and consistent. I'm agnostic. I'm agnostic. I can have it.
+
+[6:16] Anywhere you want it, that's the way. By the way, speaking of which, how is that the freaking? I'm not gonna get it. I'm not gonna start talking about the new Fall Guy movie and how they they made Nastasia's least favorite uh journey song as their theme song instead of like the original Lee Major's Fall Guy song. Ridiculous, but I don't have time for that today because we got a lot, we got a lot to talk about.
+
+[6:34] No time for it. Uh what about you, Stas? Anything this week, cooking wise? I know there's I'm not allowed to talk about it, but I know there's more in the annals of Polly Shore, so I won't talk about it. What?
+
+[6:43] Stop about that. Anything cooking wise? Um no. Wait, maybe I gotta think about it. All right, all right.
+
+[6:53] You think about it. I know, I know my man John's got something cooking wise because he's got about 50 kinds of mayonnaise sitting behind me. So what what are all these mayonnaise? What's going on, mayonnaise, man? I'm doing well, now that my ovens are fixed at Temperance, I am doing some R D into uh the Belgian food menu I've been talking about for many months.
+
+[7:10] And these are a bunch of mayos uh from Belgium that I just had shipped in last week. And gonna see which one I like the best and figure out uh which one I'm gonna try and reverse recipe test uh make it from scratch a temperance. So can't I just buy the freaking mayonnaise, dude? Because you can't buy this stuff in the US and it's a lot of potato chip, yeah, yeah, yeah. But are you gonna make it like are you just gonna take by Hellman's?
+
+[7:33] You're gonna bring out the best and then add the flavors to it to make it taste like the ones from Belgium. I'm definitely considering that. Yeah, listen. It's not bring out the helms and bring out the whatever. It's bring out the helmets and bring out the best.
+
+[7:44] Yeah, the best. That's true. Yeah. Any uh any mayonnaise in uh Bangladesh cuisine? Um, not really.
+
+[7:53] Uh we do have a lot of fast food. Last time we visited for the book research, they had it's the capital Dhaka, obviously, you know, um, it has so many kind of different cuisines. So you wouldn't, it's actually until recently it was hard to get proper Bangladeshi food because everyone was just like into the new kind of you know, fancy things. You've got sushi, kind of Bangladeshi inspired Chinese Thai, all sorts of things. You can get burgers.
+
+[8:16] Um I didn't try the burgers, but um it's probably a good call. Yeah, I think so. I I did try it like once 20 years ago, and I did not like it. It was nice, but it wasn't a burger. So I think you've gotta try something that's um I don't know, i it's local to where it is.
+
+[8:30] That's how I feel anyway. But they do love mayo. Um, but in in Bangladeshi mayo, you probably have a side of really hot sauce or hot ketchup. So it's like hand in hand. But I think, you know, um, yeah, good mayo is actually.
+
+[8:43] I mean, Europe has really good mayonnaise. When I went to Switzerland, there was a mayo. I can't remember the name of it, but I absolutely loved it. It was so creamy and different, you know? And is it one of these?
+
+[8:51] You know, I don't know. Like, let me see. Like the main, the main Belgium brand. But no, but you know, like it looks the same color. It's more kind of yellowy rather than whitish.
+
+[9:00] And it has, I think, more of a pronounced mustard flavor. I think that's what I meant. Oh my God. So there's a guy named Ervett. You familiar with Air Vatis?
+
+[9:09] No. So he's kind of a bit of a crank. And he's kind of like, there's like Airvatis, and there's and there's Harold McGee, or kind of like, you know, of a similar generation of people who are interested in science and cooking, but Ervitis is the crank and and Harold's a good one. Anyway, so like I've heard Air Vatice on more than 12 occasions say, like, what do you put in a mayonnaise? And all of us are like, you put a little mustard in there.
+
+[9:33] He's like, no, then it's a Remoulade. And you're like, Air V man, shut up. You know what I mean? Just shut up. Anyway, uh, he's one of the few people I will uh I will I'm not bad talking, whatever.
+
+[9:46] He's still famous, doesn't matter. I can say what I like. I can say what I like. Um, so we're we didn't talk about it. I went, we went off a mayonnaise, oh the mayonnaise, the mayonnaise by it.
+
+[9:55] Yeah, yeah. Mayonnaise interestingly very good hot weather food because once it's got so much oil in it and with the acid that it doesn't actually spoil. So going back to New Orleans, like the whole theory on old New Orleans sandwiches with the mayonnaise on is how is it everybody's not dying? They don't refrigerate their mayonnaise. The mayonnaise is on the counter.
+
+[10:13] It turns out, like after you leave it long enough, it's shelf stable and it's good. You know what I mean? You're not gonna die. I mean, not that I recommend leaving your mayonnaise out forever, but you're not gonna freaking die. Good hot weather uh condiment, you know what I mean, uh John?
+
+[10:25] Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah. So if you're gonna do the fries, because otherwise, why would you have the mayonnaise? If you're gonna do the fries, have you been to uh Superiority and had his new fries yet? No, not yet.
+
+[10:35] Well, you're a Trump. If you're doing research, I mean it's not like you have that far to go, it's like literally like a half hour walk from the rest of the restaurant. I was there on Sunday too. And you didn't get the fries? Yeah, we just went for dessert.
+
+[10:44] I went with my cousin. Did your Dunce cap fall off on the way over here? No, well, isn't the fries only for brunch? I don't think they have it on the dinner menu yet. Yeah, so I definitely missed the brunch, but yeah, yeah.
+
+[10:54] It's funny you say Dunce Cap because I had a question for um Molecules about Confederacy of Dunces if he found any good hot dog carts in uh New Orleans. Confederacy of Dunce Duncan. I did not. Did not. Have you ever had a lucky dog?
+
+[11:09] Yes. And was it any good? Uh yeah. Okay. I've said this on previous shows.
+
+[11:16] I'm like the I'm not the biggest hot dog enthusiast, so I'm an unreliable source. Let me ask you this. When you had the lucky dog, how drunk were you? Well, I was in New Orleans. Yeah, because uh they're famously run by people who are drunk serving to people who are drunk.
+
+[11:35] So it's like uh, you know, I don't think anybody has had one sober or knows what they taste like sober. And so like who knows what the quality is, right? But that's the official Confederacy of Dunks Dunce's hot dog. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[11:51] Well, one more thing quickly. Uh my uh my favorite drunk food in New Orleans is a Po boy from Verde Mart. I don't know if anyone who's been there has had that, but it is Which one's that? What street's that on? It's toward Frenchman, I guess.
+
+[12:06] It it looks just like uh, you know, trashy like bodegas style place, you know. Um and you order at the counter and it takes forever and there's you know a bunch of questionable people outside. It's great. And what is your style? Oyster?
+
+[12:20] What is your what is your McGillah? Oyster shrimp. Now, let me ask you this. Are they actual Gulf shrimp, which are delicious, or were they bull crab farm shrimp, which are trash filth? Again, I have no idea.
+
+[12:29] One more time say the name of that place, Joe? Or uh not Joe, sorry, Jack. Jeez. Ver Verdi Mart. Verdi E R E I M A R T E.
+
+[12:45] Yeah. By the way, before I get hate hate, I don't buy good shrimp normally. I buy the same farm shrimp that we all buy. It's just if you can get saltwater wild shrimp, they are infinitely better. That's all I'm gonna say.
+
+[13:01] I I don't whatever. I also buy the regular shrimp, okay? I don't want to hear it. A wild caught shrimp? Yeah, it's a salt like And caught wild shrimp.
+
+[13:11] Individually. You know, like if you have like this is why I was saying this is why I think the shrimp clements so is so good at Dookie Chase, is because they're not using like like fresh water grown in a cement tank shrimp. They're you they're like when they're raised in salt water, they have higher amino free amino acid content, they taste better. Like, period. Like it's not like it's not like, oh, maybe they taste better.
+
+[13:34] There have been studies. Like they people know this. It's just that's why shrimp now are cheap. That's why shrimp is everybody food now and not like the thing that your parents slap your hands away when you go to get one off the off the counter. Like when I was a kid.
+
+[13:46] When I was a kid, you reach for the shrimp. You know what I mean? Those are adult shrimp. Anyway, uh, whatever. But uh again, I eat the same ones we all eat because it's a it's a different food.
+
+[13:56] I just like to think of them as as as different foods. What about you, Quinn? You've been uh you know, like strangely silent on foods you've cooked over the last week. Oh, yeah, well I I'm I'm I've just been waiting for my opening. I've been uh bitty little bee.
+
+[14:11] All right, all right. What do you got? What do you got? Uh let's see, I got three pounds of local elder flour. So I made uh a flavored salt, a flavored sugar, um, an extract.
+
+[14:30] I'm fermenting some with ginger, and last night I made uh oil and spindle. Uh, how was the oil? It was late. I actually haven't tasted it yet. Come on, dude.
+
+[14:45] Have someone bring you some right now. We gotta know now. It was like it was like 10:30 at night. But it's not 10:30 at night right now, is what I'm trying to say. That's all I'm saying.
+
+[14:55] It's oil. All you gotta do is, you know, have someone go over, boop, boop, boop. You taste, you let us know. And then if it sucks, don't let us know. And then we'll forget it by next week.
+
+[15:03] You know what I'm saying? Uh now listen, while someone's bringing you some of that, I hope, sell me on flavored salt because I'm not sold. I like I'm just not sold on flavored salt. The only salt in my mind that's flavored that's not like 50-50 salt with something else. You know what I mean?
+
+[15:19] Is like some smoked salts are smoked enough that I can actually taste it once I've used it. But most flavored salts, by the time I put it on, I can't taste it anymore. So sell me on flavor, sell me on flour-flavored salt. Well, I mean, it's an experiment. So I have it vacuum-packed with the salt right now.
+
+[15:38] I'm basically gonna sort of drain whatever liquid there is, sort of rinse it lately, and then I'm gonna try to recrystallize the brine, essentially. I guess that's true. Let me backpedal a little bit. There are also salts that I think are okay, but they're not really salts, they're just dehydrated liquids that are salty. Like dehydrate like soy sauce crystals.
+
+[16:00] That's not soy salt in my mind. That's just like dehydrated soy sauce. That is different flavored from salt. Anyway, let us know. But I'm just saying, I'm uh what's it called?
+
+[16:12] I'm skeptical. How much do those flowers set you back? They were actually pretty, I mean, I think they were reasonable. It was sixteen dollars a pound. And how big is a pound?
+
+[16:26] And uh like how light are those flowers? I mean, it's a pretty large volume. There was like three gallon ziplocks, I think. Uh-huh. Right.
+
+[16:38] Uh I know liquor is infinitely expensive, but did you say you did uh a grain neutral or not? Yeah, I did I'm doing I did um roughly 200 mils of uh uh everclair, basically. And then I just did a you know that syrup is overnight. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[16:57] Yeah. That yeah, that and syrup, those are those are what God wants you to do with it. Um in my opinion. Uh oh, my my pen just ran out. Okay.
+
+[17:06] Uh what did I do? So you know how I talk about how I love those uh stuff, those cheese and prosciutto stuffed uh peppers in oil that like I don't think they're necessarily high quality, but I love them. Yeah. But the jars are really expensive, they're like $10 a jar. I went to DiPalo's, which is my favorite place to buy things of that nature.
+
+[17:22] And for weeks I've been like, can I get the whole bag? Because I don't want because it comes in a it comes in like like a like a gallon bag. And they're like, you want the whole bag? And I'm like, yeah. I don't, first of all, like the more of those glass jars I bring into my house, the the more my house is filled with those glass jars.
+
+[17:39] I already have mustard jars like coming out of my ears. We give them away as gifts. That's like how much, you know. And if and secondly, like it's $8 and I'm paying for all this glass. So for $53, I got a gallon bag.
+
+[17:52] And everyone thought I was crazy. My wife thinks I'm crazy. I'm gonna see how long. I'm already a quarter of the way through it, and I bought them on Saturday. So we'll see how fast I can go through $53 a gallon of these of these peppers.
+
+[18:04] Because I, you know, whatever. That's uh is that the only thing that I've done this week? Cooking one. Oh, I got one more for you. Uh you guys know how I mill flour, make bread all the time, blah, blah, blah, blah.
+
+[18:15] Uh, so normally my normal uh thing is sesame on top, because I love sesame. Sesame is delicious, right? But uh my nieces, they don't like sesame crust, which I still don't get, but whatever. Yeah, you know. Oh, speaking of which, let me backpedal a little bit.
+
+[18:30] So I'm a I asked permission to say this. So my my one of my nieces, Ellery, right, is like super uh, she's a a great hater, right? She's a super good hater. So you know how everyone says, I don't know if they say this in England, don't uh don't yuck my yum. Is this a familiar phrase to you?
+
+[18:45] Uh nowadays, I think because social media, but not until recently. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, you know, you're it's not considered polite, right? To be like, ew, you eat that baby. You know what I mean?
+
+[18:55] Let's consider it to be a jerk move. Well, Ellery, as a world-class hater, right, says the opposite. So she's like, hey, don't yum my yuck. So she hates something, she doesn't want to hear you say how good it is. It like offends her taste buds.
+
+[19:08] I'm like, huh, that's an interesting turnaround. So she doesn't like sesame crust. So I did Dutch Crunch for and I haven't done Dutch Crunch in a million years. I busted out my mom's old sunset Bread cookbook from 1977. Got the Dutch Crunch recipe.
+
+[19:21] So for those of you that don't know Dutch Crunch, it is uh is, was, I don't know, I mean, I haven't lived in that part of California since I was three, but uh, you know, it's a coating that you put on bread and rolls where you mix an unconscionable amount of yeast, rice flour, sugar, uh, and uh oil, a little oil and water, into a paste, and you let it rise and get hyper hyper foamy. And then you paint it on the bread after the form and before the last rise, and it itself rises again on top of the bread, and you put it in it, it makes these kind of dark brown, crunchy like striations in it. So uh success. That was my uh cooking success of the week. Nice.
+
+[20:03] Yeah, there you go. All right. Uh am I missing anything? Oh, well, this taste of mayonnaise is at the end on the two-minute mark. We're gonna at the two-minute mark, we're gonna go.
+
+[20:11] Do you you're gonna Dina, you're going on a mayonnaise taste account with us. We're gonna go mayonnaise a crap. So it uh when there's two minutes left, you're gonna hear the music come on, and then no matter what we're talking about, mayonnaise is gonna is gonna come out. All right. So uh by the way, your new book uh made in Bangladesh, and uh it's it's it's coming out or it's out now.
+
+[20:29] It's out. So it came out in November. So like um US, uh, UK and Amer and Australia, but it's available worldwide. Right. But where I want you to buy it is Kitchen Arts and Letters, where you can get uh a discount temper uh what is what is our discount of Kitchen Arts and Letters for Patreon?
+
+[20:46] 20. 20%. 20%. Uh Kitchen Arts and Letters. Uh buy it there instead of uh on Amazon, but you have to be a Patreon member.
+
+[20:53] You want to tell them how to become a Patreon member and what they get? Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Uh there's a couple different membership levels. You get perks at every level of membership. Uh some levels you can watch us live, others you get all levels, you get discounts to a lot of the great people we work with.
+
+[21:09] Uh prioritize and questions getting answered, um, just a whole bunch of things, access to our Discord. So yeah, check it out, Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Yeah, and speaking of uh, we have a lot of questions, but like a lot of them are like not related to what we're gonna be talking about today. When's our next no tangent Tuesday? Uh two weeks, I think.
+
+[21:27] Who do we have next week? Oh AJ Shower, AJ Schaller's on next week from uh from Mush, who's she the mushroom growing person. She's she's gonna be good. She's also was at Cuisine Solutions, so she loves a good technical cooking question. So maybe we can rip through some of these uh some of these technical cooking questions next week.
+
+[21:44] So it Quinn, look for any that are in our list right now that need to be answered now because somebody has some sort of party or something that they absolutely positively need to know, some piece of technical cooking information for, and otherwise we'll hold those for next week. What? Yeah, I don't think so. Also, the oil's really good. Oh, yeah?
+
+[22:02] Yeah. So like how uh so it's so if you remember two a couple weeks back, we had uh Kevin from uh Noma Projects on, and so when they were going to do a vinaigrette for flowers, they did a flour vinegar and then added the vinegar to the oil instead of the oil. So you're getting mainly the hydrophobic stuff off of the almost like fat washing, like an enfourage off of the flour. It's probably a different aromatic profile to a water base. Did you do any straight?
+
+[22:28] I guess your syrup is a straight water base. I didn't do a syrup yet. I just did straight sugar, and I'm gonna let it reach out over a few days. And then what are you gonna call that stuff that comes out? Yeah, cool dealing.
+
+[22:46] I was looking at your cordial recipes, and uh they're cooked, which is nice. So they're stable, which I thought was yeah, yeah, yeah. And what are we gonna get? All right, all right. All right, so on to on to the on to the book.
+
+[22:57] So this is actually your second book. Your first book was about uh which I you know what? Last time I I've never been to Brick Lane. Yeah. And I've been to East London, and the only thing I know about it is I was making drinks there at a at a drink place.
+
+[23:10] But then also I was thankful that the eel shops had closed because there's it's gross. Yeah, you know why? Because they're oh you never try them. I've never tried them. Don't bother.
+
+[23:21] Like it's the it's I there are very, very, very, very few foods I've had in my life where I'm like, nope. And I don't think it's just the one I had. I just think this is not a good product. I think it's an acquired taste, definitely. I think if you've grown up around it or someone's kind of initiated you into it at from a young age, then you'll probably like it.
+
+[23:41] But I think anyone who's kind of not familiar with it, you go into it. You wouldn't. I mean, I personally don't, I mean, British people would think, oh my god, how can you say this? This is our traditional food, but I feel like it doesn't look as appetizing. You know, sometimes I feel like you we eat it with our eyes, you know, you look at something and then I I am for me anyway, I just feel like it doesn't appeal to me.
+
+[24:00] Um and I haven't tried it, I don't think I will try it. Uh it's got all of the bad, in other words, like it's any negative aspect of any person's cuisine to somebody else, it has, right? So like there are aspects of it that are liked by all cuisines, but there's something in it for everyone to hate. Yeah, right. Yeah.
+
+[24:20] So the ones I had, it was served cold. No. It was snotty, right? So there are people who like all of those things, right? It had like bone bones in it, right?
+
+[24:28] So that's another thing. Some people like it, some people, some people don't. And it was horribly under seasoned and not salted. So there is no cuisine I know of where not one of those things doesn't offend them. Right.
+
+[24:40] There's no cuisine I know of that that wouldn't be like, oh, that's gross. But I know that plenty of places, if you just seasoned it, would be like, okay. You know what I mean? Warmed it up a bit or something. Yeah.
+
+[24:50] Or like made it not snotty or took the bones out. Like there's not one person I've ever met who likes all of those things. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah, anyway. Uh so uh do you want to talk a little bit about Brick Lane before we get into the new book or so yeah, Bricklane was the first book I wrote, and that came out about five years ago.
+
+[25:08] And that the book is based on the immigrant community of Bricklane, and um there's a lot of uh Bangladeshi people, well, there used to be, but it's also got it um it's an immigrant kind of gateway where a lot of people come from different countries or have over the years. Um you've got like a strong like Jewish um history there, French, Huguenot history, um, a lot of um now you know Somali, Eastern European as well, and um as well as a lot of Chinese cuisine, which has been quite new, um, kind of um addition to it. But it's kind of where you know my dad used to work off just off Brick Lane, he used to be a tailor, you know, working in the leather factories. So I used to go with him every Sunday and kind of just you know, the food markets, everything was just so much more vibrant, you know, as it is when you're younger and you're just experiencing things before social media and all everything else took over. So I think I just loved meeting the different communities.
+
+[25:56] So that book was about kind of celebrating not just the Bangladeshi heritage, but also the other communities that kind of I was kind of I saw growing up. Um so I shared a lot of recipes from different kind of vendors and traders, and um, and it's just like celebrating the diversity of the area. Um, and again, it kind of was a little bit of an introduction to Bangladeshi cuisine for people who weren't familiar. Um, so there's a lot of kind of um Western Bangladeshi cuisine, uh, you know, like a lot of fusion. I hate that word fusion, but you know, like a lot of blended recipes, you know.
+
+[26:25] Yeah, I mean, I feel like it's lost a little bit of its sting, right? As like people it had a really, really bad connotation for a long time. But don't you think do you think it's losing its sting? I I think so. Now I think it is a bit more kind of I can I can say it now.
+
+[26:39] So before I'm like, no, wait, it's not fusion. I don't think that the implication anymore is like uh uncultured white guy stealing two different things and putting them together. No, no, I think that's what I think. No, it isn't because like look, you know, when I was talking about Bangladeshi uh cuisine, there's uh Bangladesh's Chinese, for instance, or Thai or Japanese. It's like it's a cuisine in its own right because you're just blending together, you know, like similar familiar techniques with different flavors or different familiar flavors, different techniques.
+
+[27:06] And I do love that when you kind of um showcase both of those um kind of parts of um different cuisines rather than trying to just do you know do a mishmash of things without thinking. If thought goes into it and you kind of care about doing the food trace uh good afterwards, there's no reason why you know it can't be good. Um so I mean it's not a problem anymore. And I think you know, there's a lot of things I just love, which are a blend of um cultures and flavors or textures. You know, I love putting kind of spices into my kind of baked goods.
+
+[27:34] I love baking, so like, you know, spices into cakes and biscuits and or cookies as you guys call them, um, preserves, things like that. Chutneese. I used to kind of actually make um chutneys and jams um around the time Brick Lane um came out, so I'd have a like a stall with Asian influ uh influenced or Bengali influenced kind of chutneese and jams, which I used to kind of sell and stock in local stores. Um and I love kind of preserving. Um so that book is also, and preserving is a kind of a big element of Bangladeshi cuisine.
+
+[28:02] So after that, you know, I kind of wanted to kind of go back to my roots as it were and just kind of promote the traditional kind of cuisines that my grandma taught me, my mum taught me, things that are kind of in danger of being kind of lost because people aren't cooking that way anymore, or using those techniques, familiar techniques and flavors, because of you know being busy, not having the time or not knowing, really having not having anyone teach them. So on preserve, so a couple couple things on preserves in the book. What first of all, what is an ash gourd? Ash gourd is a winter melon. Okay, when it's so it's I think in the US you probably call it winter melon more than it's a little bit.
+
+[28:35] And that one's preserved, the one at the back of the bigger. Yeah, so back to the it's a um it's a really famous kind of sility dish, which silit is the region I'm from in Bangladesh, and it's like the northeast of Bangladesh. And it's um, you know, kind of like how you do poach pears, but it's more kind of syrupy, and it's got you know the kind of triumvirate of Bangladeshi dessert spicing, I think, which is bay, cinnamon and cardamom. So those three really pair well together. So yeah, it's like you've got like two types of you've got the one with the central kind of um one vein, and then we've got the three ones, which is the kind of, I think the three one is is that the British one?
+
+[29:06] I'm getting confused now. But the Indian one or South Asian one is more kind of earthy, I think, and then the British one. Actually, we use a lot of the British one because we grow them at home and um in the garden, and but that's got more of a citrusy note. Um, so I say, you know, like using the British one I prefer over the South Asian one because it's just a bit more kind of fruity in flavour. So any kind of like bay, um, if you have the stronger version, I'd say put less, but if you have the more citrusy, fruity one, then put like in a couple of bay leaves in there.
+
+[29:36] But it's just such a nice kind of, you know, normally you don't associate bay leaves with desserts, not very often anyway, but in Bangladeshi cuisine, a lot of desserts, you know, puddings, rice puddings and um creamy desserts um have bay leaf in them. And so that's like a preserved ash gourd. And it's, you know, I've got a recipe for sticky rice as well as um coconut morabh, which is um again a preserve, and if you put you have to eat it with sticky rice, the coconut preserve, the ash gourd preserve, and some cream, like heavy cream, and it's just like the most delicious meal. Correct me if I wrong that the stick, the sticky rice you have in here is was it a red sticky rice? Yes, so the red rice is quite popular in Silet's region.
+
+[30:17] Um it is, you know, available everywhere else as well. And that's um got more of I feel like a nutty flavour to it, you know. Um you can use white sticky rice as well, but that's got more of a flavor. Um, like a um, I think earthy and more nutty. I think more savory than the plain one.
+
+[30:32] But is it the same as the is it the same as the aromatic sticky rice from West Bengal? What's the name of it? I wrote it down. Um, Gobindabog is actually it's not so sticky, that's more kind of I guess it's a smaller grained rice, you know, like basmati, but it's very fragrant, but it's a small grain rice. So um, but it's not sticky per se, it's probably more starchy.
+
+[30:57] Um, but then in Bangladeshi cuisine, we've got chinigura um rice or kalojira rice, which is also popular in West Bengal, which are very small grains, they almost look like cumin seeds, just a bit bigger than cumin seeds, um, and really, really amazing in biranis and puddings as well, because it's got more of an aroma, and I think there's a bit more of a resurgence in kind of using these local rices, which are kind of again, you know, with kind of I guess industrialization, people are losing kind of um all the kind of expertise they had in growing um these kind of traditional rice kind of varieties and vegetables and all sorts of things, and I think there is a bit more of a drive now to kind of preserve those things. So, one of the reasons I did kind of touch upon obviously there's a lot more, you know, like the book is kind of providing uh like an overview of everything, but there's so many varieties of rice at Popula in Bangladesh, local rices, and sticky rice, the red sticky rice, as well as regular the chinagura, which I use in my kacchibirani recipe, that's like so much um more unique than using like traditional basmati. Basmati is great, but then sometimes I think for different things, using different rices, like it just brings out, I don't know, it's just different texture because the kacchibirani is made with mutton, so it's like fattier, tougher, and you slow cook the mutton, you cook the mutton raw with the rice, so which is kachi, which means raw. Now, in Bangladesh, how old of a lamb are they using? And then in England, because here it's impossible.
+
+[32:22] You can only get lamb here. Yeah. Like you can't get mutton here at all. Like, but like in England, I'm a guessing you could probably still get mutton. Yeah, mutton is quite popular in England.
+
+[32:29] Um, so it is, I mean, I think even in British cuisine, a lot of people do still eat mutton, so you have like mutton roasts and things or stews. Um, and in kind of Asian shops, you always have mutton. I mean, lamb is commonly eaten, but I think for like slow cooking or things like buranis, you know, where you can kind of marinate the meat overnight, um, then you, you know, it just brings it's got a different, you know, it's like more gamey, you know, you've got a big thing. But I've never had it. You've never had it.
+
+[32:54] No, well, I mean, because like so you go to Keene's, right, which is a famous steakhouse here, right? It's like, you know, our Hawksmore or whatever, you know what I mean? It's like fame, well, it's whatever, we have a bunch of famous steakhouses. But Keynes is famous for their mutton chops, and they bring you like a double saddle out. I was like, so excited, so excited.
+
+[33:09] It was the first place I went after the pandemic, and they brought it out. I was like, this is good, but it's basically lamb. You know what I mean? I it wasn't like I wasn't like I was like itching to have like this. I want mutton, mutton, mutton, mutton.
+
+[33:20] And then I was like, nutton. You know what I mean? Yeah. And do you know what? I think mutton tastes better w when it's stewed or in a curry or some sort of like rich dish, like a birani personally, because you know, mutton chops plain, because if you have a, you know, like a nice piece of lamb or lamb chops, you know, it's just amazing.
+
+[33:36] Or you can have, you know, lamb in other dishes. It doesn't have to have a lot of huge amount of flavour added to it because the lamb itself is nice and it is ten more tender. Whereas, you know, mutton you can make it tender, but I think because of the flavour, it needs something more. It needs to be cooked, you know, slow and slow sometimes for those flavors to come out. Um, so yeah, I mean, I get where you're coming from, because I I mean I'm not a fan of like, you know, mutton that's quite plainly cooked.
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+[33:59] Because what's the point? Just get lamb. Yeah, exactly. I mean, like, lamb's good, but like I want something else. Yeah.
+
+[34:04] Uh, you know. Uh oh, uh before before I forget, because I didn't write it down, but you uh made me remember. So you give a recipe here for I believe it was lemon, oil pickled lemon. Uh and you know, I buy oil pickles all the time, but I've never made them. And I've always wondered what is the oil actually doing in a pickle?
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+[34:22] Like, what's it actually there for? Uh so the leburacha, which is the lemon pickle with some chilies in it, it's a traditional way, it preserves it basically, because you've ha you when you make the pickle, you know, in the picture you can probably see there's like a whole like layer of oil on top of the pickle itself. So you've got to make sure it's submerged in oil, and that's a kind of preserving technique. And um back in the day, even now, you know, people don't have refrigeration in a lot of places in Bangladesh, and just generally it's a traditional way my grandma used to make, you know, pickles and it adds a lot of flavour into the because the thing is you eat these pickles, they're very rich, obviously, but they're in oil, so you'd have them with something plain. And in Bangladeshi cuisine, we don't have a lot of um our day-to-day staple is plain rice, so it's not like stir-fried or a burani or a palau or something.
+
+[35:05] So it's uh plain rice, and so you add other elements to give that richness. So you can have a little bit of the lemon pickle on the side with something. And general Bangladeshi cooking is very light, you know, day to day, which you wouldn't know like unless you ate at somebody's house, because you know, it's not that's one of the things, reasons why I bought this book out because people aren't familiar with the home cooking or traditional cooking. So the lemon actually, or you can, you know, even use the lemon oil in um kind of if you make a rice dish or a stir-fried dish. And sometimes, you know, that has a lot of flavor itself because it's kind of cooked down briefly with the oil.
+
+[35:36] So you don't just add the oil like, you know, I guess uh like a brine or something. So um, and but you cook it for a little bit of a simmer it with the lemon, which uh have to be preserved for about four or five days. So you have you kind of kind of semi-cook them down and kind of in the sun when when we do have sun in the UK, which is not very often. Um, and then you know, it's like so it's you've got to like preserve lemon to begin with, and then you take that preserved lemon and then you kind of cook it gently briefly, um simmer it in oil and all the kind of mustard seeds and other kind of elements, you know, I think it's garlic in there as well and chilies. So all of that kind of you have to let it kind of marinate, I guess for you know, ideally a couple weeks before you enjoy it.
+
+[36:16] But it just has, you know, like you have chili oil. The oil is just uh really nice on its own. It's similarly with I think pickles with made with oils, that you have that kind of flavoured oil that goes with really, you know, like simple thing. Like again, you can have it with um kitchuri, which is what I suggest having it with, which is the rice and lentil dish. So it it just perks up, you know, um other simple things or plain rice with you know, like some vegetables or chicken on the side or something.
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+[36:39] Nice. And the other thing I want to say before I forget is uh where would Joe uh Joe, what camera should I put this up to? Where is the where are you where I'm down? Boom. This book is gorgeous.
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+[36:50] Thank you. Uh the super super pretty. Like uh, where was it? Which camera? Uh here you go.
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+[36:55] Here, John, take a look at this. My this is like so, like I get cookbooks at my house, and this when you look at it, you're like, Oh, I wanna eat some of that. You know what I mean? It's like, and my wife was like, Oh yeah, this looks good. You know what I mean?
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+[37:07] It's like super pretty, like hyper punchy colors. Like there's one page, I forget what it is, but there's like a faint pink cast by the spine. And like you open the book, and it's like, and I I my house is too dark. Uh as I got older, I can't see very well at night, so I I have a headlamp when I'm reading. So I was like, is my lamp pink?
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+[37:26] And like there's like a just a light pink glow coming out of the spine of the book. I was like, oh, so pretty. That's amazing. Yeah, there's a bit of colour in each chapter, it's kind of got that kind of main colour theme. And then I love colour, you know, I'm wearing black today, but I generally love it.
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+[37:40] Going to your comment, yeah, yeah. Exactly. So, and I just wanted it to be vibrant and colourful, you know, just to show the vibrancy of Bangladesh food. So it kind of, you know, when you look at the dish, it's not just the dish there, but the whole um culture of Bangladesh. And it's a land, you know, as you've looked through the book of many festivals.
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+[37:55] So food is what'd you say, 13 festivals in 12 months? Is a saying because there's so many festivals for everything. Literally, you have, you know, the rain festival, summer festival, spring festival, and these are like big events done nationally and even internationally in the kind of the diaspora. Um people um celebrate these things, and anything's a good, you know, any kind of occasion to celebrate with food, especially sweet foods, and it's like a joyous cuisine and culture and a lot of tradition, you know, and I think it's uh food is a great, you know, it's contribute to kind of getting to know a quiz like a country, people, and it's just like a great pathway into knowing something that you're not familiar with. And I think it it wasn't just the food that I wanted to kind of showcase, but people and all the traditions and all the kind of elements that kind of create Bangladesh.
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+[38:37] You know, the use, you know, some normally you see all the kind of negativity, you know, you see the flooding and all the kind of disasters, and obviously those things happen, but there's a lot of joy that you know wanted people to see as well and experience, you know, through the food. So festivals, you mentioned there's like a season for weddings, and then you mentioned I had to ask you about it, the fish wedding. Oh yeah. The fish wedding. Everything we love fish, fish and rice makeup Bengali is a saying.
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+[39:01] Um so if you don't eat those two, you're not really true a Bengali person or Bangladesh person. Um so yeah, the um during weddings, fish is a huge uh thing. So you have fish-shaped um pastries, um, sweet meats, and you have like a pair of fish, usually row, uh row, um, which is a cup, and you dress them up as a bride and groom and present them on a tray, and so it's like and it's paraded around to everyone to see, and they actually look like you know, uh married couple, you know, got the red outfit, you know, which was a traditional Bangladeshi wedding clothes um for the lady fish, and then you've got like a white uh Punjabi or a tunic for the guy, and then uh sadly they have you know a sad ending, whereas people have to like chop them up and eat them afterwards to celebrate. We all we all have a sad ending, Tina. We all have a sad.
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+[39:47] That is true. Uh but I totally I totally want uh now to see like a fish. I wanna I'm gonna I forgot I'm because I'm stupid. I wanted to Google it, I'll go and Google, I gotta see pictures of this. Yeah, you gotta see it, yeah.
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+[39:58] I wish I could have in included a picture, I just didn't get ro get round to it, but hopefully people will look it up. But and also cutting a fish like after a wedding, fish is symbolic for so many things, like prosperity, you know, good health, and you know, um so the day after the wedding, traditionally, in some regions, not all the regions, and before the Bangladesh has come at me and say, Oh, we don't do this, you know. But you uh g the bride, traditionally the husband would go and buy or back in the day, fish the biggest fish he could find or get hold of, and then the bride would cut the fish, and then the family would gather together and cook and eat it. So that was kind of symbolic of welcoming a bride into her home. I'm sure it can work both ways, you know, men can do it too, but you know.
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+[40:35] But didn't you say they only made her make one cut, they didn't make her work too hard on that day. Yeah, yeah. So like literally, like you'd you you just hold the fish, and um, because most of the time women would be dressed in their kind of the day after the wedding in their kind of wedding finery, you know, in a sari or something. And um, so you wouldn't want like, you know, a a fish drip in your outfits. I mean, um I've known a bride to be like, no, I'm not gonna do it, it's gonna mess up my clothes.
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+[40:57] So, you know, um, but yeah, it's just literally sometimes people just hold a fish. Or nowadays, people make like a cake shaped, uh fish shaped cake, so they don't have to actually cut the fish, which can defeat the Yeah, I mean like I don't know, like to me, I I don't know, it's not not my culture, but I want the real fish. Yeah, exactly. I think it's it's a fun thing, you know. Um so I wasn't expecting to go on fish early because I had a bunch of other stuff to ask, but let's since we're on fish, you want to stay on fish for a while?
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+[41:22] Sure. Okay. So uh the fermented fish, obviously you say it's a huge uh category. By the way, when I mutilate pronunciations, please just immediately correct me because yeah, so fermented fish in general, uh shut ki. Shut ki?
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+[41:36] Shutki, yeah. Yeah. But then the one that you mentioned that uh you say substitute anchovies. Uh how do you pronounce shidol? Shidol.
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+[41:43] So shidol is the actual fermented one. The other one, shut ki is generally shut ki is a term for f fermented and dried fish. Right. But shiddle is the actual fermented fish, which is fermented underground in like earthenware pots and things. So can you buy that at a normal market?
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+[41:57] You can probably get it in specialist Bangladesh stores if they can import it, but I've only seen it in a couple of stores in London, so I'm not sure about the US. But you can you can substitute that. I mean, with the dried fish, anchovies is a good substitute, but for the shiddle, the fermented, I would say, you know, um, like Thai fish paste, is it balachang? Or, you know, uh, there's a Thai fish paste that's very strong and pungent. It's like looks grey almost in a little tub.
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+[42:20] So that's a good substitute for that. Do you say it's close? You think it's closer to that or closer to like uh West African like geg? Uh I don't not familiar with geg, but um how big is the fish? The fish are small, and when this by the time it ferments, it actually turns into a bit of a mush, you know.
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+[42:36] So you have like semi-disintegrated small fish, um like small sardines, I would say. Um, and then usually they're made with small fish, and then you you don't actually eat the whole fish. You put it in a broth and you kind of cook it in a broth and then you kind of strain it out so you get the flavor. I thought that was an interesting, it's like a strain and discard. That's like uh it's interesting.
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+[42:56] Yeah. Uh so now that's some FOMO, I don't have that. Uh and then the other one that um that I've never had is the dried, the Bombay duck, the dried fish, which you have a recipe for with, I think what obers. And uh I've only ever had that fish fresh. Yeah.
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+[43:12] Oh. Which is weird. Uh so it's a lizard fish, a har uh harpadon, right? But have you ever cooked it fresh? No, I haven't cooked it fresh.
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+[43:23] Um, I've only, I think it's uh bombay duck is I'd say an easy way to try the dried fish that's popular in Bangladesh because it's fairly easy to get hold of if you go to Chinatown or you know, like a Thai place, you can get it. But the other varieties that my mum would get from Bangladesh, for instance, isn't readily available here. So I haven't tried it fresh, but you know, um you've got um yeah, I mean, I think in India they do um pakuras out of it, I think, or you know, like bombard duck fry. Yeah, I've never but I've never had it that way, but when it's fresh, it's how does it taste when it's like jello. Really?
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+[43:57] It's like because it's super cartilage. I guess it is a bit gelatinous, yeah. So what I was wondering is it's like, and so like I used to love to make it like whole fried because the the bones such as they are get real soft because it's card and you eat the whole thing. Yeah, and it's just like it just explodes in your mouth. Like it's crunchy on the outside and explodes in your mouth.
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+[44:14] But when it gets cold, I hate it. You know what I mean? Yeah. When it's fresh. But I was wondering if the texture maybe firms up a little bit once it's reconstituted after it's dried.
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+[44:23] It does, because I think it's um because I don't like, you know, it's kind of like that eel, isn't it? So you don't like that the gelatinous, you know, what's like gelatinous is not so bad, but um, yeah, sometimes it can be when it's cold. When it's cold. Yeah, exactly when it's cold. So I think it can when it's dried out, you don't really get that.
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+[44:39] It tastes more kind of meaty. And when you cook it the way you cook it in the recipe, in the recipe I've got for it, um, it you're kind of essentially like stir-frying it. And so any kind of gelatinousness left is just fried out, and then it's kind of a dry, kind of spicy dish. So um, like, you know, like sambal, you would have like big enough sambal that's quite dry, a bit like that. Um so you don't really taste that.
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+[45:01] But there are like for shutki, I mean, I would say if you do have Bangladeshi grocery stores and if you can source it, try to. Probably Queens. It's gotta be queens, right? Yeah. Exactly.
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+[45:08] So try and get um uh boremach uh shutki, which is big fish shutki. So um boromach is big fish in Bengali. Um so it's chunkier and flaky, kind of like almost like cod but more flavorful. And um and that's just really amazing. And you could use that in this um obersion dish if you can find that.
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+[45:26] If not bombed duck is a good uh kind of um thing to use as well. Nice. Uh okay, now more on fish. Uh talk to me, because okay. So again, you stepped into a little bit of a personal minefield here.
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+[45:38] Uh Hilsa slash Illish, right? Yeah. You say it's like the fish. Yes. Right.
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+[45:45] It's like it's like uh the fish, right? Yes. Turns out very closely related to shad. American shed. Yeah, yeah.
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+[45:53] Yes. I think my dad would know that. You know, my dad used to be obviously obsessed with fish. Well, yeah, you you talk about him fishing several times and you have a picture of him f you know with a giant gourd. Now what does everyone get a f like a place they can grow vegetables in England?
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+[46:05] Is this something everybody gets? Do you know? Um my dad had an allotment, which is like, I guess, is it a community garden here? I think maybe. So it's like a shared, you know, kind of garden.
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+[46:13] So you've got to apply for it in your kind of borough or neighborhood, and then there's only allocated spaces. So when we moved to our, we didn't have a, you know, um garden growing up. We still live in a flat. And then when we moved to this new space, um there wasn't much of a Bangladesh community then, which is like 20 years ago. And then dad wasn't the first ones, you know, to go then start growing Bangladesh vegetables, and which is a way to kind of recreate those traditional dishes.
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+[46:34] And even though you could get those vegetables in the shops, but they weren't fresh, and nothing like, you know, obviously freshly grown vegetables and you know, pesticide free and all the rest of it. And um so he now is like Leslow's Bangladesh people growing I've seen like a huge kind of you know um rise in that. So for the last maybe 10-15 years, so everyone's growing stuff everywhere. And um, but you do you have to apply for a space and when you do get a space you see like endless, you just know it's a Bangladesh plot because you've got like um these kind of um I guess canopies, you know, with gourds. You've got these kind of um I'm so bad at explaining things, but you know, like crisscross kind of thing, um fencing, trellis, that's it, trellis with um monch too, Bangladesh Monsh juice.
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+[47:17] Number it's a different variety. We call it shim. I had to look that up. It's like a slightly synth bean kind of yeah, high synth bean is I think the correct thing. Oh, or you can, yeah, and we'll call it Bangladesh Mongch 2, but high synth bean, I think is most accurate.
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+[47:29] And so they're like flatter and wider, and then they've got like two varieties, more of a green version, and then there's one purplish version. So the two that my dad used to grow anyway. And those um uh, you know, it's just great to grow this things. And you know the gourd picture you saw, that was probably not even the biggest. He's grown gourd that's taller than I am.
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+[47:46] It's a long gourd. Yeah, it's like almost six foot. But what is it with what is it with with the British Isles and people growing long vegetables? People are in England, they are obsessed. My dad's all his allotment friends, everyone was you know having a competition every summer when it's harvest time.
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+[48:02] He's growing the biggest pumpkin or you know, gourd. You look up all like the world record for like biggest vegetables, and it's all somebody in the UK somewhere. Exactly. And it's like it's like dogs, the people look like they're vegetables. We love we love showing off our vegetables and everyone's supposing with in the picture.
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+[48:17] Look up, look up world's biggest potato, and there's a dude from England, and I I challenge you which one's the potato and which one's the guy. They look the same to me. You know what I mean? Very similar. Uh very similar.
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+[48:30] Um, you know, it used to have that community garden. Nastasia had one in New York. Do you still have that? Did you somehow still own that, or did you have to give it up when you uh no? How would I take care of that?
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+[48:42] I know, but you could like this is the kind of thing that if anyone on earth could do it, Nastasia, you would you would somehow trade to have someone take care of it while you were gone in exchange for like a place in New York. I know, but like it just seems like the kind of thing that you would continue to finagle. You know what I mean? It just seems like you're it was too much community and not much garden. Oh yeah.
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+[49:04] Stasia, this is why I think we actually like work well together, is because we both hate community so much. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yes. All right, but back to Shed.
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+[49:15] So uh the hilsa is incredibly bony, but in in uh Bangladesh, you don't take the bones out, you just deal with it, right? But you're eating with your hands, so you don't have to worry about as much, right? And yeah, so you eat with the hands and you kind of you get the knack of it after a while. It was I've eaten since I was very young. And it's one of my favorite fish, and it's the boneless one, which is the the most famous um fish and my favorite anyway.
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+[49:36] But you do have larger bones which you take out, but once you start getting used to it and you have to kind of eat with your hand, I think, in order to kind of navigate the bones. Um so if you take the central bone out, then the other ones you can just kind of yeah, chew through them, I guess. And if it depends on how the fish is cooked as well. Sometimes it's kind of fried, um, before kind of cooking in a stew or something, um, or a curry. Um so if it's fried, then I think it you get the crisp bits of fish on the outside as well as the bones.
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+[50:00] And the bones are very thin generally. So you can kind of all those those tertiary bones, those weird Y-bones. Yeah, exactly. So you just like you don't really, you know, it it it's a weird way, like to describe it. I I mean I've never touched a word, you know, had uh bone stuck in my hilsa anyway, hilsa bone.
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+[50:14] And every time I eat it, my mom's like, Are you sure? Because I don't really like many kind of Bangladesh fish apart from uh Hilsa is one of my favorites, probably like th two or three. Um Shad is like my one of my top, top favorite fish. I love it. And it's the f you know, flavor.
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+[50:27] You can't beat it, it's like unrivaled. Yeah, it's great. You know, I've never tried Shad, but I'm gonna try and Shad is great because it's both oily and mild. Yeah. And it's nice.
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+[50:36] It's like I don't know, it's and you like it like it withstands cooking. I love it. It's like do you think it's uh they're all related to herring and all this, but like th the when I looked at uh the Bangladeshi one is like and it's the same. It c it it not it looks similar and it swims up river. It lives in the in the salt water and swims up river and gets caught, right?
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+[50:57] Uh but here's the interesting thing from my point of view is that there's not a culture in uh in America of uh selling it really. Yeah. Um but if there is in Bangladesh, can I get it frozen in a Bangladesh grocery store? And are they good frozen? Yes, they are actually, because back in the day, um I sound such a grandmana, back in the day, um, but yeah, you wouldn't be able to get as fresh fish.
+
+[51:21] Now, to be honest, a lot of the times, I mean, when I was um we're doing the food for the book, you know, um the food stylist was saying you just she couldn't just tell the difference when she defrosted it. And they freeze it kind of instant, kind of fresh, like uh a frozen as it's called. Um so it when you defrost it, it's almost like fresh. So a lot of the times, actually all the time, I don't think I've ever had it like you don't obviously wouldn't have it here, so it's it's frozen, always been frozen. But always, even the frozen ones, you've got to try and get like a whole one if you can, rather than the pre-cut one, which the quality is is quite low, not as good.
+
+[51:55] So get it try and get um like a newly kind of um um arrived fresh whole fish and get the fish manga to kind of slice it for you while it's frozen, um and into kind of a fairly, you know, like uh maybe an inch thick piece. Well yeah, this is another thing that I've never seen before in my life. John, this will interest you, I think. The person I uh so I had to look it up, obviously, so I watched some YouTube videos, and they cut it into steaks whole uncutted. Yeah, and you have the egg as well.
+
+[52:23] Sometimes the the hillside egg is just so nice, you know. Right. Right, but I was like, I've never seen this before in my life. And then they just push out the parts they don't want from the thing and then leave the egg and leave it, but like, yeah, they stake it without gutting it first. And then you kind of work on the outside, and if you have to kind of de-scale it a little bit.
+
+[52:39] So yeah, it's kind of like that. Amazing. All right. So listen, I'm gonna run, I'm gonna totally gonna run out of stuff, uh time, I mean, uh tell me about these uh what I would consider like uh kebabs done the opposite way. So you take the the patties, the meat patties, you get this, John, you put them in breadcrumbs, then egg, then fry, not egg, then bread crumb, then fry.
+
+[52:58] No. Bread crumb, then egg, then fry. So what's the texture on the outside of that look like? It's uh jali kebab. So jali is like lace, it's like a lace effect.
+
+[53:06] So when you have the bread crumbs to kind of coat it, and then you dip it in the kind of egg and put it into the oil, it creates this kind of like almost like a lace effect, um, so which is why it's called jali kebab. And it's um it's almost like um, you know, like you get the crisp bits from a fried egg on the outside. It's like that. You have all over the kebabs, so it's really nice, you know, texturally. And it's really good with birani.
+
+[53:29] So if you have it on the side, you can have it on its own, but you know, mashed into your burani. If you make the mutton birani, that's just amazing. Um, and I would say I'm not a fan of, I think some foods, I mean, anyone who knows me knows this. I don't use condiments on everything. A lot of the times you'll have an item and everyone's like, where's the sauce?
+
+[53:44] Where's the dipping sauce? A lot of the times I think this is one of those dishes where you have to try and have it on its own. And I think a lot of savory dishes or fried things, you can, you know, you don't need a sauce, really. You can't have a dipping sauce, but it just takes away from the flavor sometimes rather than adding because a lot of the um the dishes themselves are quite rich anyway, so you don't need to kind of add the ketchup or mayo or like a chili sauce. Um, but yeah, that's great with just like you know, rice or on its own without any condiments, I would say try it like that way.
+
+[54:10] All right, here's a random question that's a huge can of worms. Uh again, I'm gonna mispronounce it, uh, pantabat. Pantabat. Okay, so cooked rice, add water, let it quote unquote ferment overnight. So a lot of people are gonna freak out on safety, but of course, there's many fermented rice batteries like idli, things like this.
+
+[54:28] You know what I mean? The one you have here, my my concern is that my kitchen is not hot enough to adequately ferment it to make it taste fermented. And I'm sure you had to bend in your book to people with food safety stuff, so you have it in the fridge overnight. But it's gotta taste different when you actually ferment it out and have it like, you know, at 30 Celsius or whatever it should be at. So in Bangladesh, obviously Bangladesh is very hot and it used to be a way to kind of prevent spoilage.
+
+[54:51] Um so people are worried about safety, but it used to be a safe way to preserve the food back in the day when there wasn't a fridge. Um even now people have it, you know, in the villages. Um I would say like warm, I mean, to be on the safe side, I would recommend warm weather, warm temperature rather than hot temperature. So if it's on a really hot day, don't leave it out in case you're worried about food safety. So warm day, you know, and it shouldn't have uh overly fermented, you know, like sometimes you have idli, it's like you can taste the fermentation.
+
+[55:17] Yeah. So for uh pantabat, it shouldn't taste overly fermented, it just has a slight funkiness, you know, which you shouldn't be able to taste so much, but it's just adds something, you know, to it. But it it's not as strong. So you drain it and you eat it in the morning. Yeah, you can like chili and you drain it, but not completely.
+
+[55:32] You should you can have a little bit of water left in it, so like um mostly drain it, but it should be kind of um, you know, um what's the word? Watery, I guess. Um and then um you have it um you can have it by itself by itself with um chilies, onions, or you can have it with bortas, which are the mashes and it's a staple of obviously Bangladesh cuisine. I mean, because it's the kind of thing where I looked it up and no one's ever had a safety problem. So obviously, you know, with rice that gets room temperature, we're all worried about bacillus serious, right?
+
+[56:02] And you know, that's why sushi is like acidified, but then if it's fermented enough, it'll have enough acidity that it's not gonna but I haven't found any cases of it being a little bit. No, I I mean we've eaten it. If like I've eaten it since I was young, so my parents got eaten it. But it's the kind of thing where if you tried to do it at a restaurant here, it would be like I think if you're doing it in a way where you're serving to the public and you're not in your home, you're like, you know, going and checking on your rice and you know, whatever. If it's like um, I don't know, uh if you feel like you may leave it out too long and then then it could be an issue if it save serve it.
+
+[56:35] But if you have to be quite strict about it, I think you can't leave it like you know, fermenting two days and you know but then again, you know, it's fermented, right? So it wouldn't necessarily like kill you. But um But it's normally what, like a 12 hour problem. Yeah, exactly. So I think 12 hours or so is is a good kind of uh time frame.
+
+[56:50] Um I'm anxious to try it. Should I try it on eat it? I think you should try it. You should try it, you know, and leave some of the water in there and definitely try it with that uh black and chili, like fried chilies. You like a really, really dark chili.
+
+[57:00] Do the ones that you use not get bitter? No, you know what? Funnily enough, you've got to have it at a high temperature and um in plain kind of flavourless oil, neutral oil, and um the red chilies, you know, and not the cashmere chilies which are mild. Try and get the kind of bird's eye chilies that are dried and red. They look like already prey.
+
+[57:18] So you've got to fry it until almost black, not quite black, so just very dark brown, and then let them cool briefly before you crunch them up, because then they kind of like crisp up a lot more. All right, so listen, I gotta rip through some stuff because we're gonna run out of time. Uh so mustard oil, do you use do you I know that you have to say that you can't use it and you say put Coleman's like mustard powder in it? But really, does everyone just use the skincare one to cook? Yeah, like you have to use the mustard oil, quote unquote.
+
+[57:43] The one that's um if you're gonna be able to do it. Yeah, it's a pure pure uh mustard oil. Because of a music acid for food. Exactly. But you're not gonna do nobody's gonna drink like a bottle of mustard oil, you know, like listen, there are no there is no there are no data showing that humans are damaged by it.
+
+[57:59] Yeah, exactly. So there's everything. If you look at any kind of food item, it's probably risky if you have it in huge amounts, you know. So I think you just have to use it as you would, you know. I mean, like just like that, you know, you wouldn't drink a gallon of olive oil or any kind of oil, you don't need it.
+
+[58:11] You know, you never know. All right, so uh the uh you give me some serious FOMO with the uh with the Bangladeshi lemon, the uh gandaraj lebu that's the scent just crazy good. Oh my god, that is amazing. Sometimes, you know, like if you go to a store, like and you just touch the lemon and just like you know, run your thumb over it, it you it just has this amazing aroma. Like it's sweet, citrusy, and that's why it's called the king of flavors or king of scents, you know, that's the name gondaraj, and um, and it's you eat the rind itself, so not so much juice in it, but either the rind.
+
+[58:42] So you take a bite when you're eating a meal like rice, for instance, or uh uh birani, or it pairs really well with fish and kind of not so rich dishes, fish or dal, um things like that, or with the porta. Alright, and now uh you like well, you like white pepper. We'll have to agree to disagree on that. The standard Bangladeshi cardamom is black though, not the green. Um, yes.
+
+[59:02] Uh the no the ta no standard one, green one is everyday one, but the black cardamom you use for like Biranis and richer kind of curries and stews. But yeah, the green one is everyday. All right, so since we're not gonna have time to talk about this, there's a fish recipe with uh clementine peel, which I thought is interesting. For those of you that want to not throw away all your clementine peels, maybe you should make the fish recipe with the clementine peel. There's a a skinless, whole skinless chicken braised recipe.
+
+[59:25] I want to know what you do with the skins, but I don't have that much time to know. What do you do with the skin? I I I don't know. I just got my mum to take it off. Uh you made me really want to have these cheese balls, uh, Shandesh molded uh cheese balls.
+
+[59:37] Oh, those are so good. Saffron and cardamom, so fresh cheese, she acid, she acid makes acid cheese, but then cooks it with the sugar until it like gets less grainy and then molds them out. Gotta do it. Uh five spice, Bangladeshi five spice. I totally want to use that now.
+
+[59:52] Yeah, you've got to that just elevates any dish. Simple vegetarian saute, it just and uh and the Radhuni, the wild uh celery seed, how much different is it from regular celery seed or from agile? Raduni is um more earthy, definitely more earthy. I I always use that word a lot, but it's um it's got a distinct flavour, and um it's not defin not similar to regular celery seeds. So it's um I it's hard to get in the UK anyway.
+
+[1:00:17] I got it from Bangladesh, so you know I was just reading amongst my friends, and but it's got such a nice flavor, especially in red meat. So if you can get a hold of some, get the raduni. You know, the only time I used it in the UK was in a mixture of five spice or six spice, and I spent an hour trying to get a teaspoon of raduni out extract it from this bag. Alright, so we're gonna have to do the mayonnaise later, John. I apologize.
+
+[1:00:39] But one last thing on the way out. So I love uh like uh culinary evolution that like goes the same way in different places. So seal bata grinder reminds me so much of a Mexican matate mono. Are they still used traditionally? Like how big a one do I need to get?
+
+[1:00:54] It's like I was like when I saw it, I was like, oh my god, I finally maybe I can get a good matate. Like, do you have one? Do you use one? We have one. Um, and we do use it not very often now, because my mum used to use it quite a lot, but it's you can get them, you know, like an A4 size, you know, is a standard small one with the the you know, could the rolling pin type of thing.
+
+[1:01:10] How much better is the bigger one? I saw you can get one that's like 15 inches long. Well, if you can carry it and you need someone to carry it. Those are much better. Medium size one, uh like a good like half of this table.
+
+[1:01:19] I mean, like, you know, my cookbook size uh double my cookbook size. Yeah. So that's the stance. I mean, they're not cheap. They're not cheap.
+
+[1:01:26] But you know, like you gotta use it and use it and then it smooths out. But how rough should I get it when I make it? How rough? It will you'll take probably several goes to make get it to the the desired kind of consistency. All right, well, I definitely I have I definitely want one of those.
+
+[1:01:38] Buy the book. It's beautiful. Dina, thanks so much for coming on. And uh check check her out tomorrow uh at MoFad and come back anytime, please. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cookie Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City, News Dance Studios, joined as usual with John behind me. How you doing, John? Great, thanks. Yeah?
+
+[0:21] Great. Got Joe Hazenrocking the panels. What's up? Hey, how you doing? Nice.
+
+[0:25] Nice, nice to have everyone in the studio today. Yeah. Did I uh fade back okay on the mic that time? You did wonderful. Thank you, Joe.
+
+[0:32] In the upper, upper left, we got Quinn. How you doing? Hey, I'm good. Hey, you know what? My uh son, like next week, my son's flying out to uh Juno, and he's gonna be even more upper and left than you.
+
+[0:43] Maybe we should get him to call in to get the upper, upper, upper left, left. I don't think we've ever gotten any Alaska questions. Yeah. Even though Nastasi and I love Alaska cabbage and Steve Hubachek, the famous dentist who grows the world's largest cabbage. Speaking of Nastasi the Hammer Lopez, how you doing?
+
+[1:00] I'm good. Yeah? Yeah. You're uh coming up on the end of your uh current Los Angeles residency, are ya? I don't know yet.
+
+[1:08] Oh loving it too much, huh? You're doing the Randy Newman, you love LA, you love it. Well, I hear I can hear what the weather's like out there, and it's like one day where it's great, and then the rest is all crap. I don't think we get a full day. Oh, sorry.
+
+[1:23] Yeah, it used to be we it used to be New York City had like five perfect days a year. And now it's like, nah. But the New York is about being irritated. If you like the weather, you don't belong here. You know what I mean?
+
+[1:36] In my opinion. Anyway. Uh and uh also I would never leave out my man Jackie Molecules. How you doing? Well, he's not here.
+
+[1:47] He's gone. Oh, he's sick. Oh. I thought we had him all. I thought we had everybody.
+
+[1:52] My man Jackie Mollicals is a sick. He had to he had to abandon ship for some reason. No. So he was here and then he abandoned ship. The molecules weren't vibrating properly.
+
+[1:59] Yeah, I guess they are. This is a good time, by the way, to remind everybody that all we really are are sacks of chemicals. Right? Anyway. And uh today's special guest from Mush Foods and 50 Cut, formerly from Quisine Solutions, the reigning royalty of the Suvian Empire.
+
+[2:24] We have AJ. How are you doing? Thanks for having me. That was great. Yeah, I've never done that announcement of a guest before.
+
+[2:33] What do you think? You like that? Yeah, strong. Like I you know what? I feel like I could have at some point in my life been the monster truck guy.
+
+[2:41] Not the driver, because I don't like speed or like any I don't like any of that. Like I don't like roller coasters, I don't like speed, but I feel like I could have been the announcer guy. You know what I mean? Yeah, you've got the cadence and the voice for it for sure. Yeah, and just like the lack of self-awareness, I think is the most important, uh most important thing.
+
+[2:57] Anyway, uh if in your listening live uh on the Patreon, call in your questions to 917 410 1507. That's 9174101507. And John, why don't you tell him how to become members of the Patreon? Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Uh there are a bunch of different uh levels of membership, different price points.
+
+[3:16] Uh at each one you get different perks, uh, but all of them you get access to our Patreon discounts from a lot of the awesome folks we work with. Yeah, check it out. Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Speaking of the Patreon, we have some uh fun former guests joining occasionally. I think I saw AJ just joined the Patreon the other day.
+
+[3:37] And we also have Kev from uh Noma in the Discord occasionally. Well, we we appreciate it. We appreciate all of our Patreon members. And remember, if you're a member of Patreon and you want uh something that we have not provided, ask us for it, and we will try to provide it. Uh all right.
+
+[3:56] Um by the way, uh more on that. Uh what we just what I just did post is I did post or when I say me, I mean Quinn, posted our giant jigger uh file. So anyone who is a member of our Patreon group and wants to print giant jiggers, they can go do so now as long as you have any form of FDM uh printing, 3D printing uh apparatus. That went up, right? Can you tell whether anyone's actually actually downloaded those things?
+
+[4:21] You can't, right? Uh I can check. Maybe I can. I'll have the I'll check the drop box. Yeah, I'm just curious if anybody at all cares.
+
+[4:29] I mean, I think people care in theory about things, but I don't think people care in actuality. You know what I mean? Anyway. So AJ, uh now is the time on the show when we just uh shoot the breeze over anything that happened to the last week. Usually culinary, not always.
+
+[4:42] Anyone got anything? I know Quinn always has something, so what do you well Quinn? We'll start with you. What do you got? Yeah.
+
+[4:48] Um, I can do a little on camera taste test if you like. I got a box of tropical fruit. Oh, it came from Florida. Yeah. A little uh a little bit of uh of uh of a hate stare to Canadian customs, right?
+
+[5:07] They held it up in uh in customs for an extra day, right? Because uh the the company, wait, we talked to company, they are sending us a replacement because some of the stuff got moldy. Because not only did we um get delayed in customs, but then FedEx didn't notify me about the duty charge, and we missed the Freddy delivery. Oh Canada. Oh man, you guys are the worst.
+
+[5:39] Like the ship too, you guys are the worst. This is why like I tried to turn off Canadian shipment for like all of our products because people would order our stuff on on Amazon. It would get delivered through delivery and they'd be like, I don't want to pay the extra duties. It's like, yo, that's not on that's not we what? And then they would return it and we would pay all the fees and get no money.
+
+[5:56] So I was like, nope. Nope. Nope. Anyway. Normally with DHL, I get a notice to pay the duties ahead of time, so they'll just leave it.
+
+[6:07] Yeah. FedEx is like, no. We'll give you the option to pay online after you fail to pay out the door. And we've already taken it back. Okay.
+
+[6:17] Wait, so the so wait, you had the best of all scenarios that you paid and didn't get it. I think until the the Monday. Yeah, that's the best. I uh I once uh they wouldn't tell me. I thought my car had been towed by New Haven, because crap on New Haven and their towing system.
+
+[6:33] I mean, I like New Haven, but you know, crap on them. They've you know, pre predators, those those towing folks in New Haven. Anyways, so I go to the place and I'm like, where's where did you tow it? Who towed my car? And they're like, I won't tell you till you pay your parking tickets.
+
+[6:46] I'm like, come on, who told my car? And then finally, after because I didn't have any money, I had zero money. So I like, you know, took almost all of my money, paid like the 120 dollars in parking tickets, whatever, which was like two weeks' groceries for me at the time. This is in the you know, early nineties. And um they're like, Oh, yeah, we didn't tow your car it was stolen.
+
+[7:03] I was like, I wanted to murder the hell out of them. So I paid my parking tickets on a stolen car. Worst. Worst. Wor You don't steal someone's car, especially like not in like where it's clearly not like a fancy car it's clearly their only car they need it to get around anyway whatever don't steal people's cars people don't do it uh so what kind of fruit was it's just I'm just tasting right now it's called an apple banana or a mandano apparently um yeah it's good I would say and you don't sound like you love it as different I'm gonna guess as I was I'm just gonna guess that it needs acid they all need acid all tropical fruits slightly more acidic than a regular banana yeah but that's not saying very much that's like saying it's slightly more acid than a base I mean bananas have almost zero I mean banana's one of the rare like no acid fruits where you're like yeah I like that you know what I mean like every other fruit that I can think of you want acid maybe it could even be maybe it could even be rape or maybe it could I should have stayed a few more days in a phytics or healthy you know really ripening.
+
+[8:27] You know what the dumbest fruit did they ship you a Monstera no we ordered two types of bananas bread fruit tree tomato goldenberry and a pink pineapple okay pink pineapple I'm trying to remember whether I liked the pink pineapple. I don't think I liked the pink pineapple. Did you like the pink pineapple? Did it didn't have enough acid was my gripe. My gripe with it, what I yeah, it didn't have enough acid.
+
+[8:56] Which bananas did you order? Again, these uh little apple bananas. And then they're actually bananas, though. They're actually a moussa species. Oh, so you expect them to be low acid.
+
+[9:07] So you don't, they don't necessarily want acid. How starchy are they? Um maybe these ones could have been a little riper. They're like medium stretchy. Listen, listen, anyone who can hear this, there was a person who got the you know the big mic, the grom Michelle, the original uh the original banana that uh the United States used to ruin bunches of uh Central uh American countries, central South American countries, you're familiar, the Grom Michelle?
+
+[9:34] Every candy tastes like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But but I really I've never had one and I know that they uh actually exist. They are commercially extinct, but they are not extinct. Wouldn't you like to do a side-by-side Cavendish gromichel taste?
+
+[9:48] That'd be really interesting. Yeah. And there's a new one coming out because Cavendish is starting to get killed. There's a couple, they're trying out some new bananas, but I don't remember the names of them. But, you know.
+
+[9:59] I mean, that's kind of the miracle of the banana, isn't it? I mean, like if you'd like a Cavendish, which by the way, if you don't if you're not a into bananas, that's the standard banana is the Cavendish banana. It's beyond standard, it's the banana. You know what I mean? And they're all clonal.
+
+[10:11] So they're all identical, right? So there might be some terroir difference on bananas, but pretty much a banana is a banana once you let it ripen. You know what I mean? A Cavendish banana is again. Uh anyhow.
+
+[10:24] So have you tried any other bananas? Not yet. No. But what were the other things you got? Oh, the reason I hate Monsteras, by the way, isn't that they taste bad.
+
+[10:33] It's just anything that like ripens three little pips at a time and you have to keep on your counter and it ripens from one end to the other. And it just it's just a nightmare. You have you guys ever have it? The Monstera deli deliciosa. It's like a little weird looking like thing, and it ripens unidirectionally on your counter, and you don't get to eat the whole fruit at once.
+
+[10:54] Nightmare. Nightmare. Yeah. Anyways, what were the other things you said? I forgot already.
+
+[11:00] Uh-huh. Tree tomato. Oh, yeah, I don't like those. Goldenberry. Did you like it?
+
+[11:05] The treat tomato? Uh my dad tried that yesterday. Yeah, we just processed the box and got rid of what was moldy. Yeah, I'm not gonna say I I don't like it, it's too strong. I tasted it and I was like, why do I want this?
+
+[11:17] That's what that was my reaction. Was that also your dad's reaction? He liked him. He thought they tasted like a cross between a tomato and uh and a um persimming. Hmm.
+
+[11:34] I like tomatoes. I like the word tomate de arbol. That's good. You know what I mean? Anyway, uh and what was the other one?
+
+[11:42] Was there one that I'm missing that you uh said that I cut you off? Uh golden berries, but I think we had to throw those out. I don't know what a golden berry is. Is that one of those Peruvian things? Um, I think it's related.
+
+[11:53] It must be related to like tomatillo and greaseberry. Uh the little like um little sheep on it. Oh, okay, yeah. So it's like a new chuva or something. I like those.
+
+[12:06] Can be blicci, but I like them. I like any kind I like tasting fruit. I don't know if you know this, AJ. I like tasting fruit. That's cool.
+
+[12:12] You know why? Fruit delicious. Built for us to like it. You know what I mean? Absolutely.
+
+[12:16] Yeah. Uh although, for those of you that uh so when Mads was on, did I talk about this yet uh a couple weeks ago? So uh Mad's Wrestling was on and he was talking about, you know, he because he loves spruce tips because he's you know Nordic, right? And so like I'm walking around my neighborhood, and you know, you, you know, taxodium, you is deadly poisonous, but it sends out these beautiful green shoots in the springtime, and they look very much like the edible kind of pine and like spruce shoots. And I'm like, I wonder, like they must not have this in Scandinavia because like if you just made a habit of like picking evergreen crap and chewing on it in my neighborhood, you'd be dead.
+
+[12:56] You know what I mean? Like it would be it'd be real bad. You know what I mean? But like I maybe they don't have that. I mean, like uh because when I looked at it with does it look appetizing, I was like, yeah.
+
+[13:08] If I like pine chewing on pine needles, which I do, this looks appetizing, and yet this will destroy me. You know what I mean? I have tasted the berries bad. You in a you, you it's me, I guess it's not technically a berry because they're not angiosperms, but it's got like a little fleshy red thing that looks like a cup with a seed in it. The fleshy part won't kill you.
+
+[13:31] Edible, not delicious. Seed, kill you if you crush it. I think you can eat it and poop it out. I think that's what birds do. But if they crush the seed, they die.
+
+[13:43] Anyway. Maybe it doesn't grow where he is. Maybe it doesn't grow where he is. I mean, the British uh grow it, right? That's what they used to make good bows out of you, but they were much bigger.
+
+[13:51] For us, it's a shrub. I'm pretty sure it's the same plant. All right, who else got some cooking crap? What do you got, AJ? While we're waiting for John.
+
+[13:57] Uh well, at home, we went to the Forsyth Farmers Market in Savannah this weekend. So grilled up some nice asparagus. And it was purple asparagus, which is like interesting because I'll try the two, you know, purple, white, green, and I don't really taste much of a difference except for the white, of course. We had this discussion just two weeks ago. Yeah, really?
+
+[14:13] The purple, the purple just a thing. It's not noticeably sweeter. Is it noticeably sweeter to you? It just tasted good. You know, it was nice and in season.
+
+[14:22] But um had the color go after you cooked it. Did it go greenish? Well, I peeled the ends a little bit because, you know, French cooking. Um so it was like green and purple, but they kept both of the color uh on the whole stock. Did you have to shock them?
+
+[14:35] No, just curled them. You know, they were pretty tender. And uh yeah, made some chicken and potatoes, and then for work I'm working on a mushroom gravy, which is pretty cool. So yeah, that makes sense. Definitely.
+
+[14:47] All right, we'll get into mushrooms in a minute. John, are you is your uh mic working yet? Uh yeah, I've been doing some recipe testing for the new menu. Got uh getting pretty close on some bitter ballin, which is uh stewed veal kind of uh croquettes, which is really good. Spice with uh nutmeg and mace and a couple other warm spices.
+
+[15:05] Nutmeg and mace, huh? Yeah. Um but I don't know if that's what the recipe's called for and trying to trying to do that. When in the old school, they're like, I don't know if I could get this off of the nutmeg. I'm gonna grate the whole thing.
+
+[15:17] Yeah, exactly. Is that what happened? Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah, I I don't know.
+
+[15:20] Um what do you like better? Nutmeg or mace? Nutmeg. Really? Thank you.
+
+[15:24] Okay. Yeah. All right. All right. So uh what do you call them?
+
+[15:27] Bitterballen? Bitterballen, yeah. Like bitter, like bitter? Yep. Do you add something bitter to them?
+
+[15:33] Nope. Why are they bitter balls now? I have no idea. I don't speak Dutch. Or Flemish, rather.
+
+[15:38] Oh wow. But yeah, yeah. So I need to. Well, I think bitter ballin are technically more Dutch like Netherlands than than Flemish. Um what kind of sauce do you say they were again?
+
+[15:48] Uh so it just gets you reduce the braising liquid down after and folded in with the meat, uh, parsley, lemon juice, and a cup and the spices, and then deep fry that, and then you serve it with like a whole grain mustard. I think I'm gonna do like a whole grain mustard Aily. Mm-hmm. So now, hold up. Yep.
+
+[16:03] Straight veal, no pork. It's originally uh Jewish dish in the area, so there's no pork. I've been you're in my head. I've been thinking about adding pork. You know why?
+
+[16:15] Because it's delicious. Yes. And veal on its own is dry. Yep. Yeah.
+
+[16:20] Yeah. What about beef if you want to keep it, you know, you could you could put some beef fat up in that. That too. That too. Um if you don't want to if you want to keep it, you know, moderately kosher, although then there's no dairy in it then either, right?
+
+[16:32] No dairy. No cream in the sauce, no nothing. Nope. All right. Nothing.
+
+[16:36] I mean, just put some beef fat up in there. Yeah, that's true. Complain around. I do have some beef out right now. Yeah.
+
+[16:40] Although that'll change the color. I think that's the nice thing about pork is that pork is going to keep it looking like it. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, we'll see. Decisions.
+
+[16:49] Yeah. Was it dry when you tested it just veal? No, not really, because uh the that kind of brazing liquid that you reduce and fold into it, super gelatinous and yeah, it just didn't uh didn't break apart either, so it was uh it worked out. Do you bread crumb the beejesis out of it on the inside? Yeah, double coating on the outside, yeah.
+
+[17:06] Oh no. Nothing with no fillers? No. Really? Yeah.
+
+[17:10] And it's still moist, no fillers. Yeah. Onion? Uh in the brazing liquid, but not added after. So the meat is just meat.
+
+[17:18] How hard is it compacted? Is it more meat loafy or is it are they loose loose bitter balls? It's a little looser. Yeah. Yeah, it's still like stringy, pulled apart kind of meat from uh from the braise.
+
+[17:28] And they're set by the braise or they're preset by frying and or panning? Preset with the liquid in the braise. So after you form them, you kind of chill them and then they set right there. Wait, wait. You drop them, you drop raw balls into the braising.
+
+[17:42] Oh no, no, it's uh No, no. So it's it's like cubed veal stew braised. Oh, then bald. Then I pulled up, pull it apart, then bald with the reduced brazing liquid. And they hold together.
+
+[17:53] Yeah. I completely misunderstood the order of operations. Probably my fault for not explaining it better. But yeah, there you go. It's me.
+
+[18:02] You know how I am. Yeah. Sometimes I miss important important things. Also, by the way, people should note uh that uh you still get 10% off uh of uh glass fan glasses if you use the uh special checkout code word Dave Arnold No Space. Uh I've been using them, they're good glasses.
+
+[18:21] Do you uh checked them out? Is he come into your restaurant yet, John? He has not. No, not yet. But I've heard great things about them, yeah.
+
+[18:27] Yeah. I know some people on the Discord have bought some too. Hopefully they're happy. Yeah. Yeah, I hope they're happy as well.
+
+[18:32] Uh so I'll tell you what I did uh when I got home. Uh so after the last week's show, uh, I got home and my kitchen was like Versailles. Water everywhere. And I was like, uh, you know, I was like, oh my wife, she was on on a business trip, so I was like, I'm gonna get some work done. I'm gonna blah instead like I was like, ah so I like uh uh my espresso machine sprung another leak again.
+
+[19:02] So this is the problem with being in a house and having a plumbed espresso machine. My espresso machine is from the kind of early 80s, so it's like 40 years old, basically. And um so the water was spraying everywhere. I I I kind of start ripping the panels off of it, and I see where I think the leak is. I try to tighten it down, and it doesn't stop.
+
+[19:25] So I shut the water off, and then I just start taking everything apart. Once I I take off this one thing where I thought the leak was, and it does need to be replaced, these tubes. Nothing is standard. I would have to solder it and stuff and get it's weird shaped, like sized, like you know, metric tubes. Nothing you can buy here in New York City on on the street.
+
+[19:43] Flare fittings, all bizarre. So I was like, oh man, I need I need coffee, like now. You know what I mean? Uh and so then I took the entire machine apart to see kind of what I needed to get to. And then there was a bunch of fittings that looked like at any minute they could blow.
+
+[19:57] So, like on the side of the boiler where I had where where the main kind of water goes in, there's a brass fitting that goes into the boiler, and it was surrounded by like a big efflorescence. And what that means to me is that there was a pinhole leak in my boiler at one time, and the only thing sealing it is like a bunch of calcium that somehow boiled out and sealed itself shut. And so my feeling was is that this 40-year-old machine needs a complete revamp, and I don't have the time to do it right now. Thankfully, for me, I have an old ranchillo Sylvia that I had loaned to my brother-in-law when his machine broke and it still exists. So now I am not plumbed, and I think I might not go back to ever plumbing my espresso machine in my house.
+
+[20:38] I don't know, what do you think? You think it's a mistake to give up on the pro espresso machine because of the heartache that it would cause my wife if she came home to Versailles? If my wife had come home to Versailles, it would have been a much, much worse. And the other thing that happens is a hundred percent of the time, if anything is gonna go wrong in the house, it goes wrong when I'm not there. You know what I mean?
+
+[20:59] This is the only time anything's ever gone wrong when I'm not when I'm actually there. And so then, like, you know, if Booker's home alone and there's water everywhere, he's just gonna call the cops. And I'm more like, Why the cops? He's like, I don't know. Who am I gonna call?
+
+[21:10] I'm like, anybody but the cops. Like anybody. You know what I mean? Like, meanwhile, I've got freaking, I've got map gas, I've got torches everywhere, I've got all this stuff. I'm like, no, no one goes into my house.
+
+[21:21] You do not let people into my house. You know what I mean? Unless they're my family or friends. So I mean, can you imagine? No.
+
+[21:28] Anyway, so yeah, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go unplumbed. Here's another one, another marginally sad. See whether you think I made the right decision. Cooked a whole bunch of beans. I have a bean pot.
+
+[21:39] I tell I tell everyone, everyone should get a bean pot because bean pots are great. Get a bean pot, make sure it holds a full pound. That's 454 grams for you metric people. Or five half a kilo. Let's say, you know, it holds that many beans plus the onions and whatever, so it's gonna cook.
+
+[21:53] Bean pots are great. But uh I cooked a whole bunch of beans and it just got left on the counter. I thought it got put away because usually they un-bean pot it and put it in the fridge after family dinner, but it just got left out on the on the counter. So the next day I was like, can I heat it and eat it? Can I heat it and eat it?
+
+[22:09] And I decided that it was not worth the risk. I'm getting I'm getting cautious in my in my old age because there are heat stable and terotoxins. I even stuck a pH meter in it, five. Five. So like five and change.
+
+[22:23] So I was like, not acidic enough. Not acidic enough. If if I had hit four, five, if I had had enough acid in that that it was down to like four or five, and I had high hopes because there's plenty of tomato in it. You know what I mean? And I was like, I was like, I feel like this could work.
+
+[22:36] But when it was over five, I'm like, nah. Right? Even though I could have heated it for a long time. I mean, like, am I gonna give my family the sprays? I mean, I'm not gonna kill 'em, right?
+
+[22:46] But am I gonna put my family on spray for a pound of beans? Yeah, we risk it. Right? Yeah. I mean, what cost of item would it had to have been for you to be like, I'm gonna go for it?
+
+[22:57] Like, what would it have to have been for you to be like, I'm gonna do this? Maybe if I had something really nice and imported, like a really good like tar bay bean or something like that. But again, I think if it didn't add acid in it, then Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[23:12] I mean, what about you, John? What would you r what would you risk your butt for? I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[23:21] I don't know. Definitely no beans. I definitely wouldn't risk it for beans. Uh yeah, no, it would have to be I don't know. Not even fancy beans, pintos.
+
+[23:27] Yeah. Oh, jeez. I like pintos. That's my favorite. That's my favorite cheap bean.
+
+[23:34] I think to cook all around her. If you had to if I had to pick one all-around cheap bean, I think it would be pinto. I can see that. Or kidney, maybe. I don't like kidney.
+
+[23:45] No. It's not my thing. I don't like kidney. Maybe because I've been making chili lately. Yeah, no, they're fine for that.
+
+[23:51] But you could use other beans for chili. That's true. I mean, like, why is kidney traditional for for chili? Because people beat the hell out of chili? Could be.
+
+[23:59] First of all, when you say chili mean, I like to call it chili beans to distinguish it from chili, which is of course a meat-only proposition. Yeah. Uh but not for your company. Right. Well, I mean, we do like all different kinds of versions just to compare side by side.
+
+[24:12] So let's get into it. Uh why don't we talk about your company and then we'll get to some questions. Uh so why don't you talk about uh so your company that you're working with now used to be a cuisine solutions, and uh I'm surprised nobody I guess we didn't tell them, but no one knew to ask any kind of Bruno Gusot slash, you know, all like both Brunos and Gerard. That's a great team, the cuisine solutions team. They are.
+
+[24:33] Uh and you were there for a number of years. Eight years. Yeah. That's a that is quite a number. And you were there when when they were doing freeze con you were doing they, you were doing freeze concentration before that got co-opted by bartenders and renamed something else.
+
+[24:47] What do they call it now? They call it flavor swapping. Well, yeah, we called it cryoconcentration. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, which is definitely different from like gel freezing and other things that you can do to clarify and so on.
+
+[24:59] Right, right. Yeah, it's concentration. And we focused on using food waste. So peelings and trimmings, cooking sous vide first. There's a sous vide element in it.
+
+[25:08] And then cryoconcentrating. So using centrifugal force or something like that when it was in an ice crystal state, um, came up with some really interesting things. It would increase functional properties. You know, I think we're just scratching the surface on it. Yeah.
+
+[25:21] Well, you know, uh, removing water is something people want to do. You know, removing water without adding heat, definitely s something people like doing. Uh and it's real relatively not it's not that, you know, yes, you can do it. But you know, now what they're the bartenders are doing it. What they're doing is they're just they're basically apple jacking things and then getting rid of the getting rid of a lot of the water.
+
+[25:43] Um, you know, jacking the proof and then and then replacing it with a different liquid. Yeah. They call it swapping, I think. There's a term that everyone uses that I think they call it like liquid swapping or flavor swap, boo swap. I don't know what they call it.
+
+[25:56] They call it something. Yeah, I mean, really all we did was make a really flavorful broth, but of course without vapor because of uh the sous vide element. And um the the ice crystals, there's like kind of two for schools of thought. You could either have really big crystals or small crystals. And to me, that depended on like the pectin levels.
+
+[26:15] So if you had a lot of pectin in the liquid that was being extracted, then smaller was better and easier to force out. Um, but I think it's interesting because you can get a lot of flavor from things that you wouldn't necessarily eat, like artichoke leaves and mushroom stems and peelings, like stuff that really shouldn't go to waste. So if you have sous vide equipment in your professional kitchen, you can definitely do a cryo concentration, which is neat. And an easiest way to do it is to basically let it strain overnight. And you don't like the you don't like the big like quiescent like the big quiescently frozen cry crystals of one like the big big crystals that you get when you like let things freeze really slowly.
+
+[26:55] So that that bigger crystals are good for something like maybe mushroom, because there's uh a lot less uh volume like you know, viscosity in the liquid. Um we would use slushy machines. Uh that works really well. But I learned really quickly that it had to be pretty sugary liquid for that to work, or else the auger would freeze. So um, yeah, I mean we it's like every single different part of the vegetable has a different flavor.
+
+[27:20] So um sometimes the stem and the peel and you know the leaves taste better than the the flesh itself. So it's really interesting. I bet you I could rig a spinzall to really get all of the crap out of an ice crystal. I've used a spinzall. Yeah, we had a spincil in the kitchen.
+
+[27:36] We'll talk off, we'll talk off air. We'll talk off air. Uh all right, what are you doing now? Just talk about the company mush right now. Yeah.
+
+[27:42] Uh mush foods is a new uh food company. So we're a startup and uh just went to market as in a couple of months ago. And we grow mycelium or mushroom root, and it's a local meaning upstate New York natural product. Um all of the mushroom strains that we grow from are wild, or you know, you would find them, you know, growing on a log in the forest. So things like oyster trumpage, shay, lion's mane.
+
+[28:09] But we do it in a way where it mimics underground. So what we have is this like big puffy balloon, which you saw. And um, from that we make a product called 50 Cut, which is basically a duck cell, a mushroom duck cell, but without any seasoning or anything added to it. So chefs can use it in their recipes to replace part of the meat. So although the product works really well in vegetarian dishes, um, our play is to combine it with meat because it has a lot of like great functional properties where it can, of course, boost nutrition, it's helping cut down on your uh environmental footprint, but also it tastes really good because we're using only culinary mushrooms and um increasing yield.
+
+[28:53] So plus plus mushrooms once they're cooked, hold water and don't shrink anymore. You know what I mean? Like they've already done their shrinking and they and they hold liquid like like a like a like a mother, right? Yeah, yeah. But also it's the there's an increased fiber in the mycelium and over regular mushrooms, you mean?
+
+[29:12] Yes. And um we use like saprophilic mushrooms, so you know, the oysters and the trumpets and stuff. If you ever cook side by side like buttons or those type, they're not really giving off a lot of water. So it's a combination of those two things or three things really. It's cooked, there's more fiber, and they're naturally like more absorbent.
+
+[29:29] So for example, if you have a burger with 50% of the mushroom, you get a really good yield, like 90%, even if you cook it well done. So yeah, for those of you like I've handled the product, and if you think mushrooms are not dense, this isn't wet when it's raw, when it's when it's when it looks like the shaving cream on the top of a hotel pan, what I say, when it looks like shaving, not like the like there's never shaving cream on top of a hotel pan, but it looks like it looks like spray foam, but not yellow, like it rose out of the hotel pan and you just went shump, but it's like super light. Mm-hmm. And like it feels it doesn't feel like you know how a mushroom has like a tautness to it. Mm-hmm.
+
+[30:11] It doesn't have that tautness. Yeah. It like feels like you could push on it. Not like cotton candy soft, but like it has a it's different. It's different because it the the the mushroom, sorry, the the fungus isn't like I'm making a fruiting body now.
+
+[30:27] It's just like doing whatever, right? I mean that's but it does have orientation. Yeah. So there's like three types of mycelium uh growth uh strains. So there's some that are like really uh like taut rope that grow, some of them that are sort of more wavy, and then there's like the aerial ones, which is what we have.
+
+[30:46] And this all started with a culture that we began working on, we meaning the scientists on our team began working on a couple of years ago. So um it's it's want to like puff up, like even in the the petri dish of the culture that we have. Um so it it is in the substrate, but it's growing above like a cloud and it's really easy to just kind of lift off. And there's a lot of other cool things about the growing process, like, you know, it only takes eight to ten days versus, you know, most domestic mushrooms are a couple weeks. Um no light because it's not growing the above ground stuff.
+
+[31:18] No hydroponics needed. Um we even control the oxygen, so it's like a really sealed room. So as the uh mushrooms produce like CO2 as they're growing, or the mycelium I should say, um, we don't let it escape because it wants that to uh mimic what it is like underground when the mycelium would be growing. Right. So you're tricking these f fungi into just growing like a mother without making a fruiting body, like it's underground, even though it's escaped into the into the non-substrate.
+
+[31:51] Mm-hmm. Yeah. Exactly. Uh all right. And uh Nastasi, you know, I'm surprised that you never I would have guessed if I had to guess, i I would have guessed that you would have gotten into mushrooms, but no, huh?
+
+[32:02] You don't like you you're not like a forager. I would imagine that you would go to people's houses and take their mushrooms. No, I'm too scared of choosing the wrong ones. Yeah. You know what?
+
+[32:13] I get that. Because we've never lived in a place where that like that was a thing. I feel like if you live somewhere and you just hired uh um an expert to come out and go with you once, then you'd be like, Yeah, I'm good, right? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[32:28] Yeah. Because like because then like it's like all this like free awesome stuff. You know what I mean? You and I both like free, awesome stuff. We like truffles.
+
+[32:39] Yeah. Yeah. I do. I don't like to pay for them. Remember remember we're you were like Nastasia, I'm pretty sure it was you, was hanging out with a truffle expert and she was drunk.
+
+[32:50] And like a giant tr not Nastasia, the truffle expert. And a giant truffle. Was this you, Nastas? And she looks at you and goes, That's frozen. That's previously frozen.
+
+[33:00] And then just went back to her champagne. Was that you? I don't think so. We ran an auction. I'm pretty sure we were not at an auction and they brought out one of these giant truffles, uh, white truffles that they found and they're gonna sell it for a bajillion dollars, and this expert wasted was just like, ah, just looking at it.
+
+[33:18] That thing was frozen. Don't buy it. I'm like, I'm not gonna buy it. You were in when you and McGee were in Portland? No.
+
+[33:24] No, it wasn't that. It was no, it was no, it was an Italian truffle. Huge. And you know, everyone was making a big deal out of it, and she was just like, I wouldn't poop on that truffle. You know what I mean?
+
+[33:37] Like, I was like, man. Yeah, I guess if you tell by the color, maybe it gets like darker. Well, I mean she's an expert. You know, like there's a lot of things that like I can look at and just know. You know what I mean?
+
+[33:45] And that's the way she was with truffles. You know? She was like, you know, all you idiots can get scammed by this, fools, tools, idiots. You know what I mean? I was like, man, have some more champagne.
+
+[33:55] Tell me more. You know what I mean? Um anyway. So uh Kevin Statemeyer writes in and says, uh, looking forward to this episode as I just started growing some oyster mushrooms and lion's mane mushrooms myself. It looks like your mycelium is just pure mycelium without spawn or other typical substrate that is used by others.
+
+[34:13] Is that right? Can you share more about the process? If so. Sure. So it it if you call spawn culture, it's kind of the same thing like when you inoculate the the substrate.
+
+[34:24] So it's sort of similar in the sense that our spawn is a uh proprietary um culture that we developed, um, which actually has uh higher uh dietary fiber, uh including beta glucan, which is really good for you. So it took some time, you know, like doing different cloning and techniques to get the the culture of the spa. It does go into a substrate, which is upcycled material, soybean shells and oats and things like this. And the difference is how it grows. So a lot of these home kits, you've got a bag or maybe like uh something with mesh and it's growing out from the sides.
+
+[34:59] So you need a lot more height and you need um d like more surface area to grow them. Where ours are like I mentioned, aerial, so they're just going straight up. And there is, you know, macylum in the substrate that's growing on top as well. So it's similar in the sense that yes, we do start with the spawn in in a substrate, but the um but the the meat is just the mycelium. So when you shave it off, does it just grow again?
+
+[35:24] Like how often can you shave one batch before you have to dump the substrate and start afresh? So we do one at a time. Um but it doesn't take long. You know, it only takes eight days to grow and you know, the um the inoculation and fermentation is about two weeks leading up to that growth period. So we just always have a cycle going.
+
+[35:42] And then when the substrate is um once it's removed, that goes to animal fodder or feeds. So it's like a fully sustainable cycle. Right, but it's not like grass, you can't cut it like three times. Mm-mm. No.
+
+[35:54] We do it once. That'd be cool if it was like a fuzzy pumper barber beauty shop and it would just like come up and be like shump, shump, shump. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[36:01] Well, it's interesting too, because you know, it grows about three, four inches. Um you can fit more in the growing rooms because it doesn't take a lot of surface area. It doesn't go out, it just goes up. How deep is the substrate? What what size pan is?
+
+[36:15] Two inches. Yes, you're using two inch hotel pans. Mm-hmm. And that's how you know. Because you're literally now growing them in hotel pans, right?
+
+[36:20] Or gastronorms to the euro weasels. Yeah. Yeah. Um gastronorm is a really dumb word, right? So stupid.
+
+[36:26] Yeah. Gastronorm? Yeah. Europeans, you know. Yeah.
+
+[36:31] Um, but sure. Yeah, no, I mean it's it's uh it's very similar to to the type of uh mushroom growing that you do at home, except it's indoors, there's barely any air, there's no light, uh, and you can definitely use less land. And it takes eight days, so it's exactly the same but entirely different. In some ways, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[36:49] And you can and you, and I know, I don't know if I'm allowed to say it's but like I heard that you are like growing all sorts of things for when they become legal, like you guys know how to do psilocybin already. That sounds like uh maybe Shalom shared that with you. That's our founder. Um but you know, I think the possibilities are endless. We're just really scratching the surface right now.
+
+[37:09] You know that's Nebraska's motto, or at least it used to be. Is it? Yeah. They changed it to something really dumb like hello, or something really stupid. It used to be possibilities endless, which is like the best thing ever, because Angela Garbutt's from uh Goldenrod, who's like, you know, one of our friends, uh you know, she's from Nebraska and her dad uh reps Nebraska beef.
+
+[37:28] And it was so we used to walk around and be like, possibilities endless. You know what I mean? And then like they changed it. Why would you change possibilities endless? Yeah.
+
+[37:35] Well, I mean, if you think about it, like out of, you know, the 1.5 million types of fungus, like only 20,000 of them you can grow mushrooms from. But those are the same ones that and then you knock it down to um the ones that can grow on wood, and that's what we're working with. But that includes psilocybin. So you don't specifically they can't do uh ascomite, like they can't uh they I guess I have some of them. They can't do like truffles though.
+
+[38:01] They can't do entirely underground McGillas. Right. Yeah, I mean, those are the mycoral mushrooms, but it's the same as like chanterelle and um morelles and trumpet or not trumpet, but uh truffle, if it is meant to grow uh with tree roots, um like meaning it's like this harmonious balance between the two. They need each other to survive, like the mushroom takes sugar from the roots and the tree gets the the uh the food from the mushroom. Um that hasn't quite been figured out for like farming cultivation yet.
+
+[38:30] So um we're working on it. But you know, maybe one day. Crack that. Imagine if you crack that. Yeah, money would be.
+
+[38:37] Maybe I already think you can make money. Because this stuff does taste like the mushroom, which is kind of shocking. So which ones are you doing now? You're doing oyster and what else? Mostly oyster and trumpet right now.
+
+[38:47] Um we are going to be introducing a line of um duck cell or a 50 cut that you can combine with white meat, chicken or fish or what have you. And that has a little bit more lion's mean in it and a little bit more oyster. So it kind of depends on what type of meat we're uh creating the the blend for. So you can grow one strain at a time, but then in the manufacturing process, when we roast it and chop it, we're combining them together to uh complement or even mimic the flavor of the meat that we're mixing it with. Right.
+
+[39:16] Now right now you're focused on uh chefs and institutions, not on you know regular uh human beings, and you are totally focused on this kind of because it is not exactly you know, ha if they thank by the way for letting me try it, but it's not like cooking a regular mushroom, right? So it takes it's not like something you could just hand a chef and be like, yo, cook it like a mushroom, right? So you because you know it cuts differently. Yeah, and you know, you you pre you pre-dehide a little bit before you cook it, right, didn't you say, or something like that? Yeah, it's more roasting than pre-dehydrating.
+
+[39:50] So we roast it in a continual motion. So um the cut sides of the mushroom are all the same uh roasted intensity, but there's still a little bit of uh water on the inside, but we roast it exactly to the point where it's the same moisture content level as ground beef. Right. So that's on purpose. So when you cook it together with meat, it's just capturing all the juices rather than giving off liquid like a button or a cremini would do.
+
+[40:16] Right. Because you guys are focused on this kind of functional ingredient aspect, which I I get it, but I there's so many people who just probably want to dork with the I you know, yeah. I would too. I was gonna try to make sheets, but I couldn't cut a decent sheet. That's why I didn't make sheets out of it.
+
+[40:29] Like I couldn't figure out a way, like I don't have a good enough slicer. Like if I still had my meat slicer, I would have par frozen it and then sliced them into sheets to try to do it, but I didn't have the ability. So when I was cutting it, I was tearing it a little bit, so I couldn't sheet it. Mm-hmm. But I mean, and there's so many people who are just like, giant mushroom I want.
+
+[40:50] Yeah. I want to mess with. No? When we started talking about that, it made me like really think about all the things that you could do. But um right now, you know, we have uh one farm in the Hudson Valley, but I really think that we're gonna look at that to see if we can do fresh distribution.
+
+[41:05] Cause you know, we're um, you know, we do food service and at the moment it's the 50 cut product. But you're right. I mean, there's so many things you could do with it. And I think if it was larger pieces too, it would really um could have more potential for meat replacement, like whole muscle items, right if you wanted. And I thought it was hilarious.
+
+[41:26] I was sitting at the, you know, one of your events, and the person sitting next to me was a VC, like for like vegan stuff, right? And meanwhile, your founder Shalom was like, crap on the vegans. This is you're gonna, it's still gonna be 50% meat. Crab on the vegans. And I was like, and the guy next to me is like, uh You know what I mean?
+
+[41:47] So it's this weird thing where like, you know, corporate wise, you're very pro meat, but yet you're selling this kind of vegans and this the vegan, like it's a weird, it's a weird it's a weird mix match of like mentalities. You know what I mean? This like clearly because I think it's a good product on its own. I don't think it needs the meat, yeah, but it's it's being sold as a like mushrooms are considered a high value item, so it's not considered filler, unlike, you know, my man behind me with his breadcrumbs. I'm just kidding.
+
+[42:14] You did not fill your you did not fill your meatballs, your bitter balls. You didn't fill your bitter balls with breadcrumbs, but you could fill your bitter balls with mushrooms. And that's considered a high value target. So it's not considered like if you had a mushroom burger, but it was actually mushrooms in the burger rather than mushrooms on the burger, I think you could sell that. Anyway.
+
+[42:35] Well, the product 50 cut right now, like it is a cooked product, so um in small pieces. So I think that the vegan play is like really smart when you use it in something like a chili or gravy or uh risotto pastas, things like that. And it's so interesting because just like when you put the the mushroom with the meat, if you cook with it in a liquid format like that, uh you you know, you toast it with the aromatics and everything as well. But if you had put like wine that you want to reduce, like forget it. It's just gonna soak it up.
+
+[43:08] So I've actually learned that you need to like reduce alcohol on the side before putting it in the recipe. And the other day I made three versions of chili, like one all meat, one half and half, and one all mushroom, the 50 cut. And the it was a six quart recipe, and with the one exactly the same, the one with the same weight of just the mushroom versus the meat. I had to add two more quarts of water to get the right consistency because it's very like not thickening, but like more like viscous in texture when you cook it. So it I think there's a lot to be looked at there.
+
+[43:37] Like even sauces. Um, I have a friend that made ketchup with it, you know. They say that like like old school ketchup, like mushroom ketchup. Yeah. You ever had a mushroom ketchup where you're like, oh yeah.
+
+[43:46] I've never had one where I was like, I made one, and I was like, nah, I'll let professionals do it. He said it was really good. I haven't tried samples, I need to get him to send it, but that was uh Lindera Farms uh the um he makes vinegar or like foraged ingredients, vinegars and stuff Daniel is there enough uh is there enough protein in a mushroom to glue it with transglutaminase no right I haven't tried um our fifty cut is uh nine grams of protein per 100 grams which is twice as much as like a regular mushroom but because of the root button well also TG has got so much uh so much casein in it that I'm sure it would just kind of like turn into a you know what I mean you could probably glue it together you know because it's so porous you could probably get it to clump. Yeah I mean I've done emulsification with it um did hot dog testing with a friend the other day but that was like half and half still died. Yeah it was really good it replaced about 30% of the weight of the meat um and speaking of sausages we have some here cool you know who likes sausages my man Johns is it a good time yeah okay oh while we're passing this out by the way I did go uh I did have another food experience I went to George Motz who was on the show he uh he has uh you know his burger uh burger America hamburger America restaurant and currently he's doing from Lansing Michigan the Cupie and their thing is the olive burger which is just like and they did it like 1920 style like the way that their great grandma used to and grandpa used to make it which was loose meat as they call it loose meat.
+
+[45:17] I was like that was my nickname loose meat. Anyway so it's like loose meat on the grill then they spray water on it they put the little they they spray water around the loose meat put the cheese on it put the little dome you know the steaming dome you know I'm talking about. Put the steaming dome over the top of it, let it steam, pick it up, then they put it onto the the bun, and then they scrape up the other loose meat and put it into the cheese. So I don't think this loose meat thing would work without the cheese because the cheese is the glue. This is what reminded me of it.
+
+[45:44] And then uh they put the biggest dollop of this like uh like olive, like regular like cut up like pimento stuffed olive, like olive chum with mayonnaise, but I think they had something else in there too because it didn't taste like straight mayo. I don't know what it was, but it didn't taste like straight mayo. If I had to guess, there was a a another white filler item in that wasn't mayo. It was a lot because it would have been a lot of mayo. A lot.
+
+[46:11] Some sort of cheese, like a white creamy cheese, maybe some. No, no, if I had to guess, because it's really thick. If you made me guess, even though it I don't think they do this at all, I would say that they put some bechamel in it. Well, thick and some. All right, so what do we got?
+
+[46:26] What do we got going here? So we uh we work with uh Pat Lafrida with the burger patties, which he tried. Um, and then also we are partnering with Dufour Gourmet, so Aurelion Dufour used to work with Shill Bro and Daniel Belude, which I worked with before. Um and this is a breakfast sausage with pork over cheesy grits, and this is actually exactly what we're gonna be serving in the morning at the National Restaurant Association show starting next weekend on Saturday. The other NRA.
+
+[46:51] Yeah, the other NRA. And then this is uh bratwurst, which is really nice. And then we're also making chicken and Italian sausages with that. Brat first, right? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[47:00] And I have some on a bun too, if you want, but um trying to be cautious of the mouth noises. So yeah, we're gonna uh if anybody wants uh uh a visit to the booth, we'll be at 1788 at the food show and start a belly. They would definitely say you uh you heard about them here. So this is 50%. This is uh more like 40% by weight of the the dark meat 50 cut.
+
+[47:26] Um and uh Aurelion uses a beautiful um pork um he's got from Quebec, uh the milk fed pork. Um and there's just herbs and regular botwurst seasoning inside. So um, you haven't had stuff before. What do you think? I like it.
+
+[47:44] I probably wouldn't know that this was in there if uh if I wasn't told about it. And forgive me, I cooked this like maybe 45 minutes ago before I boogied over here. So um so yeah, this is the cheesy grits that has some of the 50 cut in it. Um it just gets like you could add it to a lot of things that are already liquidy based. Um and the breakfast sausage is again the uh Quebec pork with um a little bit of spiciness, like red pepper flakes and whatnot, and also 40% of the um mushroom by weight.
+
+[48:17] And are people just using it for Wellington's too and stuff like this? Yeah, that's a really great point. So um we have worked on Wellingtons and it works so well because you don't have to cook it out. You could just combine it with your aromatics, you know. Exactly.
+
+[48:31] And um we worked with Aurelion, I think you might remember we did a pate on crute with him. And when it was cooking in the oven and we had the mushroom as an ingredient inside, we saw like zero vapor coming off from the chimneys of the dough. And it was interesting. And so he um packed it like he usually does for retail uh in Cryovac and it stayed dry because a lot of times if you have a dough wrapped product and you're selling it after it's chilled and you know reheated, you've got a lot of moisture buildup. So with the Wellington, when the beef tender line is cooking, it's coming into the duck cell.
+
+[49:05] But because of the moisture holding capacity of the 50 cut, it's holding it inside. So the dough stays like super crispy. You don't have that gum, that gummy gum, gum. Yeah, you know that you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, that's why a lot of people put like crepes around it to keep it from like getting into the colour.
+
+[49:20] Yeah. Yeah. There's something that's gonna be gummy. But if you put more of the this product around, it's like the like the the Hey, is there an application for it as like uh an intermediate in a fried item? Yeah, I mean I did Arencini with it.
+
+[49:34] Um empanadas, I think it would work really well well because again, that's like in a dough. Then then mushroom, then bread, then fry. Mm-hmm. Well, actually what I did with that is I substituted some of the weight of the arboreo rice for the mushroom and because it thickens, I wasn't really worried about it getting to like the right consistency because usually the starch from the rice will do that. But um yeah, it just made a really nice risotto and a little less rice just to play with it.
+
+[50:00] Um but as a filling, you know, combined with other things like a fried empanata or you know, a rabus or something like this, it definitely would work well. Talking about a stuffed cabbage uh application. Uh that would work really well as well. Um I think you like stuffed cabbage? I like stuffed cabbage that's like nicely braised and tender with like a lot of sauce on it.
+
+[50:23] Name like shower, you should like stuffed cabbage. Yeah. Yeah, no relation, but yeah. Yeah, yeah. I I l I love stuffed cabbage, but I really like uh using uh not fresh cabbage leaves, fermented cabbage leaves.
+
+[50:34] That's a really good idea. They're so good. I mean, the only issue is that it sometimes it can get so acidic that um if they sit a while before they're cooked, you know, the acid in the meat can like make the meat throw off too much water and get, you know what I mean? Yeah. Um because I don't like m well, you know what?
+
+[50:50] I've never made sauer bratton. Anyway. Um I don't usually cook m meats in a very high acid environment. But anyway, so uh it's not been a problem with my stuffed cabbage, but yeah, I really love uh stuffed cabbage. But I'm wondering if you could use it as like an absorbent thing in place of meat entirely in a stuffed cabbage situation.
+
+[51:10] I think you could if you had like more cabbage and maybe some dressing or something that might be a little bit gluey inside. Um rice and all that. You like stuffed cabbage, right, John? Yeah. It's delicious.
+
+[51:21] Yeah. Yeah. Uh we're actually we're working with um JJ Johnson, who I know was on the show recently. I listened, that was good. I really got into John John mushrooms after that.
+
+[51:29] Oh my god. They're so good, right? Yeah, they're really good. So expensive, so good. And can you believe you throw them away?
+
+[51:34] You never eat them. It's wild. Can you grow those suckers? So good. I think.
+
+[51:37] I'm gonna talk I'm gonna talk to the scientists. You could buy that. Yeah. Because it's yours are so uh loose, right? If you could just imagine, so like if you were to take one of these mush products and dehydrate it, like freeze-dry it, it would be instant infusion because it's so porous.
+
+[51:52] So like if you like had freeze-dried blocks of John John, people go crazy. Yeah, that would be really cool. People go banana. Well, the five non-Haitians who know about it would be like, yes! And then all of Haiti would be like, thank you.
+
+[52:05] Yeah. Because it's like, you know what I mean? I wonder whether you could grow it. I'm gonna look into it for sure. Um I wonder whether it would then be edible and you wouldn't have to remove it.
+
+[52:14] Because I think that it's just because they have the really stringy, I just uh right? Because like, do you think that they themselves are on don't taste good if you eat them, or is it just that their texture's no good? I think people are put off by the texture, but doesn't most of like the the flavor and aerobiotic compounds come at in the liquid? That's what I'm guessing. Right.
+
+[52:34] But it'd be nice to not have to take it out. Yeah. Like if you had it as a freeze-dried thing and then you powdered it, then you could just John John stuff. You know what I mean? Without using the cube.
+
+[52:43] You could just be like, and John John. Yeah. But it's such a good flavor. It's really special. Um JJ's using the the 50 cut um which is the oyster trumpet based in a turkey jerk turkey meatball med field trip.
+
+[52:54] So this rice bowl edition downstairs? Uh all the locations. Yeah yeah yeah yeah so you could go right down if you were fish bowling us right now you could go downstairs and have some mush product at uh JJ's restaurant. How about that? There we go.
+
+[53:07] Um all right I think I have another one. So if you've worked for a mushroom company I hope you have a uh an answer for this but uh El Butz wrote in and said lighthearted question uh what's your favorite mushroom related pun? I think mushroom related humor you ready for it? Exceptional. Get it Seps.
+
+[53:23] Seps. Get it seps. Yeah. All right you got any? You got any mushroom puns?
+
+[53:27] You got any we probably use this too often but it uh there's a fungus among us. Oh yeah I think our group chat with the company they're probably rolling their eyes all the time when I say that but what about you? I don't know. I don't uh no I don't do uh I don't do puns. I just I just start cursing.
+
+[53:43] I don't pun. You know what I mean? Like uh yeah yeah. Nastasia I don't do a lot of puns right no you're not a very pun guy. Not a very pun not pun a pun.
+
+[53:56] John, you're not a punster. No, I'm not Quinn, you're not a punny man, are you you missed the still Oh yeah I did. What was it? No no no I wasn't trying Quinn really I wasn't yeah well so I guess Quinn is the p the punster, punster among us. Uh but like um yeah, no it's I I never even used the fungus among us stuff because my grandpa, you know, my my grandpa dead, he hated uh he hated mushrooms and he hated uh chicken and he hated all these things.
+
+[54:35] And so if you see he ate he ate meat and then he ate potatoes, and then he ate more meat, and then he also ate potatoes. And so if you s if you said to him, uh, do you want to, you know, what about chicken, grandpa? He'd be like, Fowl. And if you said to him, you know, what about you know, you want some of this lamb, mutton. So like we if we had lamb, we'd have to make him like beef or pork chop.
+
+[54:59] So the only two things he would eat, you know what I mean? Sliced impossibly thin because he was also cheap. So cheap. You he used to pride himself on how thin he could slice my grandma's microwaved beef roast, which was a nightmare, the worst food you've ever put in your mouth. And uh if you said, Hey, what about mushrooms, grandpa?
+
+[55:17] I'd be like, Fungus. Like that. And so like he always had these one word responses, you know. And like if you asked him how he was, he'd be like, vertical, i.e. not dead.
+
+[55:30] And that was his one response. Or and then if you would say, How are you doing? and he would say, soberly, even though he wasn't, you know what I mean? He wasn't like drunk, but he also wasn't, you know, inherently sober. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[55:46] And he's just, you know, old school jerk. You know what I mean? Like old school straight up jerk. Um depression era jerk. He grew up in the depression, so he was a jerk.
+
+[55:55] No, you know what I mean? Like that excuse. Anyway, that's not plenty of people grew up in the depression. Very nice. Uh anyway.
+
+[56:00] So uh we got some regular technical questions. Do you want to rip through some regular since you're a technical cook? Sure, I'll try. All right. Yeah.
+
+[56:07] Uh hey, is there a uh resource or guideline for properly setting the crystal structure of beef tallow after rendering? I had some on the top of my beef stock I skimmed off, melted to remove water and then cool. Didn't they answer this question from Mathman? Here so Math Mathman wants to take beef fat that that Mathman has rendered and then use it in place of tallow, but you can't do that because it's actually a different fat. The fat that you're rendering off of meat isn't the same as the hard fat that you want to use to do to do tallow for crust.
+
+[56:38] That's you want the kidney fat. Totally different fatty acid component. You're never gonna do it. If you do have a spinzall, you can raise the solid fat uh uh the solid fat uh index of of the of the of the fat by freezing out the the crystals that you want, but it's not gonna make what you want. You want to get kidney fat.
+
+[56:59] That's what you want. Um Christian Sacco, I made a pastry cream following a recipe online. It turned out too sweet. Is there a re any reason I can't cut the sugar in half for next time? I'm not well versed enough with baking and know how it'll affect something else with the pastry cream.
+
+[57:13] I don't think so. I don't think there's that much sugar in a pastry cream. I think it's mainly the eggs and the starch that are set in that thing. I think you're okay, AJ. You're with me?
+
+[57:19] I wouldn't be worried. Yeah. Not worried. Well I'm I I would consider swapping some of the sugar. Or at least wheat sugar.
+
+[57:28] I mean, of course you would. But there's there's not that much sugar in it. I don't think it's I don't in other words, I don't know how much of a functional ingredient it is in pastry cream. You know, I think 99% of the functionality in pastel cream is coming. We got two more minutes, AJ.
+
+[57:39] That's the noise. Uh is uh 99% of the functionality is coming from the eggs and the starch, I would guess. Yeah, I think so too. Egg, starch flour, whatever you have in it. You know what I mean?
+
+[57:47] Maybe if you didn't want it as sweet, you could use honey or you know, that would be I don't know. Yeah. Uh all right, wait, these are a carbonation questions. I'm gonna do that later. We got anything that's specifically good for AJ Quinn because there's got a lot of stuff here.
+
+[57:59] Because otherwise we could save it for no time, no uh no all tangent Tuesday. How about this? Bryce wants to know is there any benefit to making salad in a large wooden bowl as opposed to a stainless steel bowl? I mean, I can't taste the difference unless you can. No, the benefit of a wooden bowl is they're nicer.
+
+[58:19] Yeah. To serve out of, you know what I mean? Also, like old school, like old old school, if you're gonna take that garlic clove and you're gonna rub the bowl, it doesn't work as well in a stainless bowl. So, like, that's the way they used to do Caesar salad back in the day. That's such a good point because we only had wooden bowls at the Garmer station at Danielle.
+
+[58:35] Really? Is that what you would do for the like tradition? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I like a wooden bowl. Um what else?
+
+[58:43] What else we got? Uh what else we got? Uh there's so many questions I don't even know what to do, because I only got 50 seconds left. All right. I've been inspired to try and make some masubi inspired by Latin American dishes, like so Latin American inspired Masubi.
+
+[58:54] And I'm wondering about rice selection. It's traditionally made with short grain sushi rice. Uh, what factor should I be looking for in my rice to try to dial in stickiness? Is it just starch content? Not starch content, starch style, right?
+
+[59:04] Amelopectin versus uh amylose. Uh, should I wash off excess starch until the water runs clear? What about the cook itself? I don't know, but like, you know, uh when um Sola was on, she made me feel incredibly uh empowered to use sushi rice for risotto. So I'm gonna say do whatever you like, as long as it's uh sticky enough.
+
+[59:23] You know what I mean? Um the main thing is masubi is also acidified, right? That's the one thing you want to not do. If you have rice sitting around for a long time, don't grow bee serious in it. Like uh Bacilla series serious.
+
+[59:34] Like make sure that you acidify it so that you're not gonna poison any of your buddies. That's all it is, right? Just don't poison your buddies. Do you store it in the fridge or outside or freezer? Sometimes I freeze my rice.
+
+[59:43] That might help with any concerns on that. Just for storage. Huh. No, I've never tried it. I'll look into it.
+
+[59:48] Anyway, we have to go, AJ. Thanks for coming on. Come back anytime with more mushroom-based products, cooking issues. Thank you.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Vegas. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Victor coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, Newstand Studios. Joined as usual with John. Whoa, I got real dizzy because uh I had to do the intro leaning back. I am currently blacking out, but I can still speak for some unknown reason.
+
+[0:29] Joined as usual with uh John, how are you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yeah, we got Joe Hazen rocking the panels. Hey, how are you? Literally, my eyes went dark, my vision was going black.
+
+[0:39] I was falling backwards. I don't know what it is. Like, I guess I don't shout as I'm leaning back anymore like I used to. I haven't like been on stage in like 30 years. So you know what I mean?
+
+[0:48] Yeah. Yeah. Uh got uh in the upper upper left-hand corner, Quinn. How you doing? Hey, I'm good.
+
+[0:55] Yeah, yeah. Uh got uh Nastassi the Hammer Lopez in Los Angeles. What's up? I'm good. How are you?
+
+[1:03] Ah, I'm good. I'm good. Uh the blood's gone back to my head. I'm good. And uh Jackie Molecules, what's up?
+
+[1:09] No, I'm good. Yeah, so this is not cooking, it's not cooking related, so let's get it out before. Like I was uh John and I were discussing uh, you know, because we we we talk a little bit on the mic before we come live to you folks. And uh I was saying I wish I had a pill that I could take to stop sweating, and John agreed, and then Miss Mr. LaMolecules said that uh Mr.
+
+[1:30] Molecule said that uh there is such a pill that you did a radio show on it. Yeah, I did a whole series. It was like a commissioned thing I did when I was in DC with the hyperhydrosis society. So apparently there's a whole collection of people that uh sweat more than the average person. And uh they have to take pills or actually Botox is another solution.
+
+[1:53] Look, it just kill it just kills your sweat pores or sweat glands or whatever, it just wipes them out. Yeah, yeah. Yep. So let me ask you this. Did you actually like see someone like before and after, or like two root people in a room, one sweating buckets and the other one not sweating buckets after they took this pill?
+
+[2:09] And why don't I know about it? Like, does it kill you? Well, maybe I I interviewed all these people that suffer from hyperhydrosis, and I didn't see any sweat. So I'm assuming that these uh solutions work, you know. Quinn said I should just coat my entire body in antiperspirant, which, you know, other than wishing to be an aluminum man, I don't know that uh, you know, I don't know.
+
+[2:30] It just seems like you also don't they leave residue? You wouldn't want to wipe the antiperspirant across your forehead, would you? I think the forehead, actually, my whole body needs it. I don't think there's one part of my body. I was in the garden this week in the community garden, I was working.
+
+[2:44] I sweat through my gloves on the back. Buffalo, these are buffalo leather gloves that have protected me from direct impacts of a four and a half inch unshielded angle grinder, and yet I sweat straight through them. I have sweat through three-piece suits with undershirts. I have sweat through my shoes, right? Not sneakers, leather shoes.
+
+[3:03] I have like dress shoes, sweat through them and ruin them. I sweat a lot, a lot. Also, I go hard in the paint. Am I right, Saz? Yeah.
+
+[3:14] Yeah. I just you know, I f I feel like uh why not? You know? Why not? I think you have hyperhydrosis, maybe then, Dave.
+
+[3:23] Maybe. I mean, hyper, definitely. Uh hyper everything. Hyperhydrosis, why not? You know, I keep, you know, hoping someday that maybe like parts of me will slow down that I want to slow down, and they don't.
+
+[3:34] You know what I mean? So who knows? Yeah. Uh so yeah, look up the pill, send it to me. The other one I want we were talking about on air is I want to take the tick pill.
+
+[3:42] I want, I want to eat my dog's tick medicine. Like, but the problem is this, other than maybe it'll kill me. The problem is that dogs really, really, really do metabolize medicines at very vastly different rates from people. So, like, even so my dog's on the same thyroid medicine that everybody takes. I forget the name of it, it's like Levitra or something.
+
+[4:02] Is that the thyroid one? I think so. Anyway, so like uh rock rocks. Yeah, whatever that is, my dog takes it. But like the dose is like 10 times what a human could take.
+
+[4:13] So it's like you can't just take your dog's medicine. Nope. You know? Yeah. I have used my dog's shampoo.
+
+[4:21] Did I tell you this on the air before? No. Yeah. So we were out of my shampoo once, and I'm in the shower, and the dog shampoo is there. And so I'm like, I don't really care.
+
+[4:30] You know what I mean? Like, strong enough for a man, pH balance for my dog. I don't care. You know what I mean? My family lost their minds.
+
+[4:39] They lost their minds. In fact, I'm supposed to probably not mention it to you guys because they're like, don't ever tell anyone you did that, because that's the craziest thing we've ever heard. I'm like, what? It's like soap with goop in it. It's a marketing garbage, right?
+
+[4:52] I mean, once or twice, how's it gonna hurt you? You know what I mean? I have been dipped in trash. Nastasi and I like worked out of a trash can for like four years. You think like a like a dog shampoo is gonna take me out?
+
+[5:05] Please. Right, Sauce? Yeah. Yeah. Uh if you're listening live, which means you're on Patreon, you can call your questions in too uh 917-410-1507.
+
+[5:16] That's 917-410-1507. But besides just listening in live and calling in and getting priority answers on your questions, there are other benefits to joining Patreon. You want to talk about it, John? Yeah, if you go to Patreon.com/slash cooking issues, you can find out about all of that great stuff. But um yeah, prioritize answer question.
+
+[5:31] You get to be a part of our Discord and the online community that's there. It's a really great place where people share recipes, restaurant recommendations, and a whole bunch of other awesome things. Um you can get access to our live video feed. You get to call us, um, discounts with our partners, just a whole bunch of great things. So yeah, check it out.
+
+[5:46] Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Occasional STL files. Yeah, yeah. If you're a 3D printoholic. Uh so anyone got anything from the previous week?
+
+[5:56] Anyone? Anyone? I know that Quinn's been working on his partially Freito for uh for weeks now and is excited about your results. I know uh why I know you're itching for your semifreiato line. Go for it.
+
+[6:07] Go for it, Quinn. Semi-freight it up. Yeah, well, I'm I'm not resting on my frozen dessert laurels. I'm working on new techniques. So I have my sort of modern semifreighter technique where you're stabilizing a foam with hydrocoloids instead of like egg woods or whatever.
+
+[6:29] So I made a banana semi frito, and it turned out really good. Yeah. Yeah, and you said it wasn't gummy, right? Because that's like a problem with a lot of like stabilized frozen systems that are too stabilized, can get, you know, mm-hmm, chewy, but not in a necessarily fantastic way, right? Yeah, no, it's not gummy at all.
+
+[6:48] It's like you ended up you ended up just uh whipping F50, right? You whipped an F50 foam up. You were able to get it to work with me. Yeah, yeah. So it's basically it's one of my gelata recipes.
+
+[7:01] And then on top of it, I added the F50. I tweaked the like ratios at them a little bit. And then I uh added a little bit of like just extra actual banana pieces blended in for like some solids. But uh yeah, it worked. And it was a kitchen aid spray, not a uh not a whipper spray, right?
+
+[7:26] Yeah, yeah, I didn't know you know you know never to put pieces in a whipper, right? You know, never ever to put pieces in a whipper. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, even three pieces. Again, I blended it, I blended it.
+
+[7:36] You ever you ever you ever have to have someone open a whipper that was clogged? Sucks. Uh yeah. It sucks real bad. If you have an old whipper, so like the early models of whipper didn't have uh didn't have uh a relief uh groove cut in the threads, and so you'd be like, first of all, it takes a large amount of force to undo something that's tight that's under pressure, but then once you get it undone, it's like sh like everywhere.
+
+[8:07] I did that with chocolate once it was oh my god, oh my god. And if you've done it once, not in a trash bag, from then on, you get a contractor bag and you open it. But if you have big enough chunks, they can be big enough to clog the groove. You know what I mean? So if someone puts chunks in your in your EC, like just tell them what for.
+
+[8:28] The other thing that I hate is uh when people put it away without the gasket in, oh my god, oh my god, or if they put it away and they don't um push the seal up, like I know that you should check all that beforehand, but listen, it's better to check twice, and then you if you check twice, you almost never make a mistake, right? If you make a habit of always making sure that the valve is fully shut and seated and there's no little piece of pepper on the o-ring, and you make sure that it's got its main thing in, then you check it again, then one of those two times you will have checked it. It's like the blender thing. When you turn off a Vitamix, always push both paddles down, turn the knob all the way to the left. Always.
+
+[9:10] And then before you turn it on, make sure the all both paddles are down and the things to the left before you plug it in a hundred percent of the time. And then if you mess up one of those two, you'll catch it on the other one. You know what I'm saying? Habits. Habits.
+
+[9:25] Uh anyway. Awesome. So but uh you're liking that you're liking the texture and you're kitchenating it. Now, what did you do anything special to hydrate the F50? Because as you know, F-50, all the methyl cells can have problems in milk systems.
+
+[9:38] Uh I actually didn't have any issues to what I did because I was still using a little bit of the locust bean gum as well. From my previous like recipe. Um split the powders into three stages. They put like Xanthan and Lurx bean gum in cold, brought it up to temperature, and then once it was like high 90s, add in the methyl cell. Right, to disperse it, folks, to disperse it because methyl cell will not dissolve at that temperature.
+
+[10:16] That is a dispersion temperature there. Alright, go ahead. And that was just with my sort of base liquid. Once the methyl was dispersed, I added the rest of the sugar, and then some of the reserved liquid to sort of start cooling it down. And uh yeah, then I let it sit overnight in the fridge after cooling.
+
+[10:37] Yeah, and then the next day we have to read it. So I think maybe setting letting it sit overnight is a good step in terms of like making sure that that F-50 hydrates in the milk system. I just know plenty of people that like try to make F50 systems, especially like a la minute systems, uh with milk, and they fail. You know what I mean? Uh I know uh uh I I again I did an initial test with just like milk and sugar, and it did not work until the next day.
+
+[11:06] Yeah, no known issues, so that known cooking issues. Uh yeah, all right. So uh I'll say something I did yesterday. I went to Red Rooster, haven't been in a long time, saw Nils Norrin, you know, old old uh old time boss and compatriot at the French Culinary Institute. Uh because my niece, the one who says don't uh don't yum my yuck, yeah, she was doing uh a citywide like talent thing from for schools at the Apollo Theater.
+
+[11:34] So now she gets to say forever that she played at the Apollo Theater, which is sick. And I've never been to an Apollo show before. I mean, I've seen you know, I used to watch Showtime at the Apollo all the time because who goes to bed after Saturday Night Live? You know what I mean? Who?
+
+[11:47] So you watch Showtime at the Apollo. So I was hoping that we would get to boo all of these kids, right? But of course, they have a no right, but they have a no booing the kids rule, first of all. First of all. Oh, yeah, yeah.
+
+[11:59] Which when did they implement that? Uh sometime actually, like in the 90s. I think when Steve Garvey was uh har uh Harvey was there, when Steve Harvey was there, he was like, You can't boo the kids during the you know, during the thing, right? But um here also remember, like the hall is full of parents. I would have gotten the absolute crap kicked out of me.
+
+[12:21] Right? So it's like, so that's one reason not to boo. But the second reason was unbelievably, these kids were freaking amazing. I was like, oh my god, you know what I mean? Like so much better than like whatever Westchester would do with this.
+
+[12:33] We got eight million people in this city. So we got some talented freaking kids. You know what I mean? There was this one uh person, she sang a song. I was like, oh my god, if I was a record person, you would have a contract right now.
+
+[12:45] This is definitely not gonna be the last time this person sings at the Apollo. And this was only for Manhattan. So then I was wondering, well, okay, so the the Brooklyn equivalent of this is probably where? Bam, right? Probably a bam, right?
+
+[12:55] And then uh, I don't know where the Queens one would be, right? I was like, where's Staten Island doing theirs? Where's the Staten Island borough wide talent thing? At a Wendy's? I'm just kidding, you guys.
+
+[13:08] I'm just kidding you, Staten Island. I mean, hey, look, who sang from Staten Island, you know? Come on. Yeah, but they don't, you know, yeah, I mean, but they weren't. They're it's not like their teachers were like, ooh, I'm encouraging you to do this.
+
+[13:21] You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Although there were some, uh, I mean, it's not Wu-Tang thing, but there was some amazing step dance at this thing. I was like, wow. I mean, really, really talented uh folk here.
+
+[13:32] You know what I mean? All age ranges, modern dance, ballet. I mean, the Apollo is still most fun when someone's being booed. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[13:45] Although I I don't know. I mean, I haven't watched it in a long time. I don't know who the current uh Sandman is because the original one died. You know, who did the shuffle and shuffle them off the stage? You know?
+
+[13:55] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. Classic.
+
+[13:58] Classic. Classic. Also, you would think after a pandemic, people would know how to get out of a theater in a timely fashion. Forever to get out of that freaking place. People suck.
+
+[14:10] All right. What do you guys got? What do you guys uh what do you guys got? Jack, you always have something. You always have gone to some restaurant.
+
+[14:17] Oh yeah, that's true. I uh this this weekend was the 10 year anniversary of the Line Hotel, so I hosted a podcast studio pop-up and spent the weekend in Koreatown. So I hit up my Koreatown favorites. MDK Noodles, knife cut noodle soup, um, The Prince, which has incredibly good chicken and other Korean things. Yeah, Korea Town's just awesome.
+
+[14:41] I don't know if you've spent a lot of time there, but that's one of my favorite places to be in LA. I mean, I haven't spent a lot of time in LA. So I can't just spent a long time. Yeah, I mean I've been to Korea sounds weird because it's like it kind of feels like you're in New York for a split second because it's like a proper sort of like urban city feel, you know. And yeah.
+
+[15:01] If New York had wide streets. Yeah. True, they're a little wider. And strip malls. And strip malls.
+
+[15:08] If if if new if New York had strip malls and wide streets, it would be just like Korea Town in LA. There's some parts between. I feel like Bay I feel like Bayside is like, you know, yeah, yeah. Fair knocking on the door of that. Fair, fair.
+
+[15:20] All right. Uh what about you, Stas? You got anything? Anything? Anything that you're allowed to talk about?
+
+[15:26] That I'm allowed to ask you about. Uh no. I mean, well, you haven't. I saw Jack and his girlfriend, and uh, but we like the usual places, so yeah. Yeah.
+
+[15:39] Yeah. There's all these stories I wish that that I could bring up, but like I'm gonna catch crap afterwards. You know what I mean? Like I got like I catch crap. It's like.
+
+[15:47] Anyway. Oh, I got one for you. Dax, Dax's in Alaska now. He's in Juneau. He just he just landed in Juneau, so now I'm gonna get some hopefully Alaskan food stories from.
+
+[15:59] He's I want to get him to call in so that he can beat Quinn in upper upper leftness. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Anyway.
+
+[16:06] All right, John, what do you got? I'll have to go to the North Pole. Yeah. All right. Um Yeah, I finally took my New York City DOH food safe certification thing yesterday.
+
+[16:18] Um you want to admit that it took this long to go get your food handler's license? Yeah, it's fine. It is what it is. But you've been handling food all this time. Yes.
+
+[16:26] No license, unlicensed handler. But I've been doing it safely. Um but uh yeah, and the review course, you know, I did everything with them last week and the online review course, uh, the stuff they were saying about MSG is just so archaic and outdated, I just couldn't believe that it was. I mean, I guess I can't still believe that it's up there. Um saying it needs to be listed as like a potentially hazardous ingredient and all these other things.
+
+[16:47] And it's just like, what? Yeah. Oh, is this still not the case? No, yeah, exactly. It's incorrect.
+
+[16:55] Yep. Yeah. Um, it was just shocking to see that there. You know, I wonder if like I had read everything a little more carefully, what other stuff I would have found. So for those of you who uh aren't in New York or aren't in the restaurant business, it like uh somebody who is in a food service establishment at all times must have what's called a food handler's license.
+
+[17:13] And it's a I have one in my wallet right now. It's a plastic card that certifies that you have been passed through New York City's uh Department of Health um program for food safety. Now here's a funny thing. It's good for life. Forever.
+
+[17:29] So like I could fall off a building, hit my head, get scraped off the concrete, put into a restaurant, and I am still valid person to judge food safety in that restaurant according to the city of New York, right? Like driver's licenses, they expire, everything expires except this license. Here's the other thing. In order to get the license, you have to watch an online video. But even if you know the answer to the video, you have to spend a certain amount of time on each screen.
+
+[17:58] Yeah. So you're like trying to click through the screens and you can't. And if you forget to move your mouse like after that you've started and you're at the last year before the test, yeah, you walk away, it restarts it over a year. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[18:12] And if you and if you get anything wrong on the quiz, you have to go through that section again. Oh no, you could just go back this time and just. Oh, oh, so I I'm not saying this. But you have to pass a test in real life, right? You have to go take a test.
+
+[18:25] By the way, by the way, they only give the test in one place in Manhattan, and it's way uptown from where we live. You know what I mean? If you happen to live by 110th Street, convenient. You know what I mean? But like, isn't it at 110th?
+
+[18:36] 100th. 100th. So not across 110th Street. Now that song's going through my head. Yeah, that's a great song.
+
+[18:41] That's everyone loves that song. Uh I'm not gonna sing it though. Anyway, so then uh you go up to 100th Street and like right in the middle of the island, too. So it's not convenient to any subway at all. You have to walk basically into the middle of the island, and then you sit and you're like, okay, I'm gonna take this test, I'm gonna be out of here in 20 minutes.
+
+[18:59] Nope. Nope. Nope. You got a 40 minute review first where everyone is encouraged to speak and ask questions, and as you can imagine, a lot of a lot of silly questions out there. Oh my god.
+
+[19:09] Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. And then you go through all that and they give you your card for life.
+
+[19:15] Yeah, it's a scam. Yep. Yeah. $24 scam. $24 scam.
+
+[19:19] Yeah. Just pay the $20. What if you paid $48 and then just didn't have to do that? Would you have paid $48 to not have that review? 100%.
+
+[19:27] Yeah. Yeah. What do you get on your test mask? 100. Oh, it's up.
+
+[19:32] Totally safe. Totally safe. Yeah. Yeah. How much do you remember of the individual bacteria that they've asked you to remember?
+
+[19:38] Very little. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. All right.
+
+[19:46] We have an old tangent Tuesday. That's right, all tangent Tuesday. Oh, let me remind you guys. If you uh if you uh want, you should go. Um, we still have a glass the glass fan promotion uh code, this for anyone.
+
+[19:58] Capital D, Ave, Capital A, Arnold, no space on glass fan to get 10% off. But Patreon folks get more with a different code that you can only get on our Patreon site. And I have to say, I mean, he's not paying us. I feel like I feel like it would be nice if they would sponsor us. You know what I mean?
+
+[20:16] But I do like the glasses. Yeah. Yeah. Uh Andrew Cummings wrote in. I know that uh this is about spinzalls, folks.
+
+[20:23] So our our our culinary and bar centrifuge. The the only centrifuge design for bar and culinary work. Um I know that the 1.2, so I I have a recommendation for what is for the density of product that you can put into the rotor. So if you don't know for centerfuges, I don't know why you're listening to this show, but uh centerfuge is something that spins and then uses uh the you know the the force generated from spinning. I'm not gonna say centrifugal because I don't want some science not to be like it's on a real force, it's an apparent force.
+
+[20:54] Shut up, shut up anyway. So like it uses that force uh to uh separate things, right? And so uh I had to choose because the factory, you know, wants to know what the ratings for it are, so I had to choose a liquid density that's the maximum density because the the higher the density, the more the rotor waves, the more the rotor weighs, the more energy it requires, the more energy is in it. Sometimes the harder it is to balance, etc. etc.
+
+[21:15] So I chose a number, 1.23 grams per CC. And why did I choose that? Because that's simple syrup. And I figured that very few people were gonna spin things that were denser than one-to-one simple syrup. Is it gonna is it gonna work if it's like 1.3?
+
+[21:38] Yes, yes, probably. You know what I mean? But like please don't fill your your bucket with BBs or with mercury. You know what I'm saying? Like that's where that number comes from.
+
+[21:47] Uh that's all it is. Um is there anything that falls outside this range that people might attempt to spin? Yeah, maple syrup, but why would you spin maple syrup? Like, why would you spin maple syrup? Frankly, why would you spin it?
+
+[22:00] Yeah, but if you fli what you flavor it, you want to spin out the solid, you want to spin out the stuff. It's kind of hard to throw a puck out. You could do like a spiced maple syrup. Yeah, yeah. I don't know.
+
+[22:14] I don't know. Let me put it this way. I chose that number because I was like, Ain't no one need to spin something denser than this. And no one has, as far as I know. At least not that they've told me.
+
+[22:23] But on the other hand, I'm not worried about it. Don't fill it with mercury for several reasons. Mainly cost. Can you imagine how much it would cost to fill a rotor with mercury? Yeah.
+
+[22:32] There's no more gallium. It would be real hot. Yeah, well, or they could get like one of those sero bismuth alloys that melts at like body temperature. You ever play with those? You guys ever play with those?
+
+[22:43] Holy crap. They're these metal uh uh like uh alloys. Uh sero bismuth, because it's like bismuth is one of the main things, and I forget what all the other cereal, but whatever, what other stuff in it, and they melt some of them like just above body temperature, and they're used for like making these metal. So some of them are interesting because they expand when they uh crystallize so that they can actually make incredibly like good molds of things because they they puff out as long as you're molding something cold. But uh, yeah, they're amazing.
+
+[23:14] Not food grade, not food grade. So that's why they've never come up on the show before. I used to I used to keep some of that stuff around though. So awesome. And you can choose the the melting temperature.
+
+[23:25] I had a project I was working on in art school where uh I wanted to make a machine that would repeatedly cast something over and over and re-melt it, and then I wanted to use Sarah Bismuth, which is why I had a bunch of that stuff lying around. But I was like, you know what? I don't want to have molten toxic metal everywhere. I'm not gonna do it. You know what I mean?
+
+[23:44] No tangent Tuesday on cooking issues. Doris writes in, hoping to upgrade my juicing game now that I have my hands on a spinzel 2.0. Fantastic product, by the way. The speed versus the 1.0 is a game changer. Well, thanks.
+
+[23:59] Thank you. I agree. Uh I'm currently running one of Breville's centrifugal juicers, and I'm not happy with the yield. Well, you know why? Uh Breville, it's not just the probably fine for apples and okay for carrot and celery, but rhubarb our problem and the soft fruit yields are offered awful.
+
+[24:14] Yeah, Breville also throws a crap ton of pulp into the I look, I like Brevel's products, but like that juicer in particular. Juicers, it's like they say in Rosemary's Baby, every juicer is different. You know what I mean? It's like like juicers make very different, not just yield, right? But the actual way the juice tastes, the components of the juice are different from juicer to juicer.
+
+[24:36] So the centrifugal style juicers chum up the fruit and then strain it through a strainer, centrifically. And Brevels, especially, because of the size of the hole that's in it, throws a lot of pulp into the juice. So you get a very pulp heavy juice. So after clarification with Brevel juice, you're going to get a lower yield off of input product than you would with, let's say a champion off of Apple. And by the way, this is not theory.
+
+[25:02] I've done this a million times. You know what I mean? My current, well, you well, you talk about this other stuff. Is it worth exploring a standalone press to run the waste pulp through? I mean, that's a real pain in the butt.
+
+[25:12] That's a huge pain in the butt. I have a press. I have, I've had have had several presses, and I have a press. Presses are messy, right? Um, although I do recommend something for spinzalls, by the way.
+
+[25:22] Uh, if you're spinning a lot of pucks of something, save the puck and then put it in a nut milk bag. And then once the puck is compressed, right, then you can give a last squeeze and you can get a good yield of clear stuff out of the puck. It's a good trick to get extra yields out of uh Houstin's and whatnot. Anyway, okay. Um, should I just spring for a hydraulic press juicer?
+
+[25:43] Well, like I say, most people I know who have them are like, man, these are a pain in the butt. And they're real expensive. You know what I'm saying? Messy and expensive. So if you're one of these people who believe that cold press juice is the end-all and be-all of like health, or you believe that it's gonna stay, you you know, you're not adding ascorbic acid, and so you're like, I want it to not oxidize as much, and so you want that.
+
+[26:04] But you know, typically these hydraulic presses, first you have to chum it up the stuff, which is called titturral something with a tea. And then after that, you put it in a bag, then you put it in a press, and you gotta clean it all out. And for that, you spend thousands of dollars on a machine. So, you know, whatever. Build one yourself if you really want to see.
+
+[26:21] Uh, I don't use mine very often. The only thing I use it for right now is I have uh uh an orja recipe that's really hard to strain, that I use it for. Uh, and grapes. Oh my god, for grapes. Grapes with seeds, grapes with seeds, concorde grapes, God's grape.
+
+[26:38] Everyone, everyone who doesn't like Concorde grape is mistaken. Styles, what do you think about Concord Grapes? Love them. Love them. Love them.
+
+[26:46] You know what's disappointing, Nastasia? Those uh those those grapes that are halfway to a Concord that they sell in the supermarkets that don't have seeds. Yes, horrible. Horrible, horrible. There's a perfectly good grape that they could have used instead.
+
+[27:00] Concord. You know what I mean? I mean, yeah. Here's a trick for you guys. When you're when you're juicing Concord grapes, let's say you juice Concord grapes.
+
+[27:09] Don't just juice the grape and walk away because you're not gonna get enough of the skin contact flavor. Like Concord, a lot of the amazing aroma and flavor from a Concord grape is around the skin area. So the trick with a Concord, and this is why you want to press the trick with a Concord is to squash it without rupturing the seeds, which is if you if you put it in a blender, right? Or if you uh you know a braid the seeds too much, even if you run it twice through a regular juicer, some juicers you can run it through once without breaking the seeds, but if you run it through twice to get your yield higher, which you're gonna need to do, you're gonna rupture the seeds, you're host. Then after you press it once, add some enzyme to it to loosen up the skins, and then leave the skins and the juice together for hours, leave it overnight, then rejuice it.
+
+[28:00] Get that skin contact flavor. Alternatively, if you're gonna make a liquor out of it, juice it and then add straight booze to the skins. Let that soak the color and flavor out, then add the two together. Anyway, uh back to uh Dory's question. Uh, is it worth uh standalone press?
+
+[28:14] No. Uh I'd go for a cooings, but I'm going to use it uh less I'd use it less because of the cleanup hassle. So coolings is the juicer I use. I love it. Uh I love it.
+
+[28:27] In fact, I'm gonna make uh I'm gonna make Contra buy one because I do the peely juice where I just throw whole lemons into it and juice the whole lemon with the rind and your yield is higher, and a lot of people like the juice better. That's my answer to super juice because people a lot of people like peel flavor in the juice, and it's so fast and so clean. But you can't dishwash it. Here's why. They're health nuts.
+
+[28:48] The cooling, all high-end juice people are health nuts, right? No offense, health nuts. But the the they're worried about, eh, I'm not saying right or wrong, but they're worried about plastics, right? So they use these plastics in the coovings that aren't dishwasher safe because they can't take the, they can't guarantee them under the high temperatures of a dishwasher, so they might warp. So all the parts of the covings are hand wash.
+
+[29:11] That said, they're not that hard to hand wash. You know what I mean? So I just hand wash it. Uh I don't worry about getting every, and there's a little good thing on it to help you wash it. I don't worry about getting every last little.
+
+[29:24] Oh, by the way, can I tell you guys a tip that was given off air a couple weeks ago? So when Dina was on, uh, you know, where she was talking about Bangladeshi food, and after we cut Mike, I was like, oh, I forgot to, I forgot to rib you. I was gonna give her crap because in her book, I didn't do this on air, right? I was gonna give her crap because I was like, every recipe that you have chilies in, you tell people to wear gloves, right? I chop chilies all the time.
+
+[29:50] Don't wear gloves. I don't care. You know what I mean? Wipe my eyes out, have like, you know, uh, you know, juice shooting out of my eyes. It's fine.
+
+[29:55] You know what I mean? But she never mentions wearing gloves and all of her recipes, not all of a lot of her recipes have turmeric in it, right? Not just have turmeric in it, but she's rubbing turmeric into things. You know what I mean? Like rubbing it in.
+
+[30:09] And nowhere she like uh, you know, put gloves on for the turmeric. And I was like, what the hell, man? I was like, I was like, I mean, uh turmeric scares me more than anything else in the kitchen from a staining perspective. And here's what she said. I have not had a chance to test it, but so we'll put it out to the cooking issues crew to see what you think.
+
+[30:25] She said, cold water only. She's like, your problem is you're washing your hands with hot water. She's like, don't. Wash your hands with cold water and you can get out the turmeric stains. And I was like, you know, I've never ever tried it.
+
+[30:40] So I'm gonna next time I juice turmeric and get some on somebody else's hands, because I ain't gonna touch it, uh, I'm gonna tell them to wash it off with cold water first and see whether that's helpful. Did anyone else have any experience with this? Not I. Yeah. But it was super interesting.
+
+[30:55] That's the kind of that's the kind of stuff people tune in for, and it was right after we cut Mike. So you have it now. You know, it's an extra bonus from when she came on the show. Anyway. Uh all right.
+
+[31:05] So I'd go for the covings, but I'm gonna use it less because the cleanup hassle, all the brevel parts are dishwasher safe. Uh, am I really missing out? And uh is on a dishwasher option in this category. I don't know whether the there's another one, I forget the name of it, pure something that uses a similar vertical auger. Look for a slow vertical auger machine.
+
+[31:22] The coolings is really good. I've used other ones. I can't remember the name of it, that the juice quality wasn't as good out of it. Uh to for me, it's worth the hassle of the dishwashing problem. And I bet that if top rack dishwasher would work, I bet you that in the top rack it would be fine.
+
+[31:38] But I can't say that. You know what I mean? I've done plenty of things that they tell you not to do. The instruction booklet for the covings is like, don't juice too much. It's gonna be too much for the machine.
+
+[31:50] And I'm like, I don't care what you say. You know what I mean? And I juice infinity with it. You know what I mean? I fed a spoon into it.
+
+[31:57] I told you this. I fed my bar spoon into it by mistake. And I was like, I was just a little piece of ginger was stuck. And I was like, I'm just gonna get that. I'm gonna get that into the auger.
+
+[32:07] So I stuck the spoon in, and it was like and it ate my spoon and twisted it into like a pretzel. Machine fine. Machine fine. Things a beast. Beast.
+
+[32:17] Uh and it doesn't heat up like the champion did. Oh my god. Uh I have to say, I'm all my champions were stolen. I don't think I'm gonna buy another one because I think the covings can handle most of this stuff. Although I still have a love for, you know, Nastasi and I just put in case after case after case of apples through those things.
+
+[32:37] Man, good times. Um, and I uh and the other question am I missing out on not on not using a champion? I don't do lemongrass in a champion. I've never juiced lemongrass. Have any of you ever juiced lemongrass?
+
+[32:50] No. I know Nastasi's not gonna be juicing any lemongrass. Yeah. Yeah, Nastasi's like, hell no. Uh ginger is good in a champion, but it's great in a couping's anyway.
+
+[33:01] Uh, I hope this answers some of your questions. Uh definitely talked more about juicers than anybody else wants me to. Uh Clintosaurus writes in, uh, apologies to the hammer for an unbearable carbonation question. Your must does. Uh, are there diminishing returns for the PSI on forced carbonation?
+
+[33:16] Yes. All right. Uh okay, they say I've got stainless steel carb caps and a tap right regulator on my 25-pound tank. No such thing. You have a 20-pound tank, my friend.
+
+[33:27] Uh, that maxes out at 120 PSI, although I normally carbonate at 45 PSI. I've seen that most two-liter bottles start to fail around 140 PSI, blah, blah, blah. Is there any reason not to carbonate at 90? Yeah, look, there's a look. There's a limited amount of CO2 that you can keep in the bottle.
+
+[33:42] So if you plan on opening the bottle at any point, there's no point in trying to add more CO2 than is going to immediately leave, right? Immediately. So in alcoholic beverages, lower ABV alcohol. 45 is a good number. 45 is not going to get too much foaming on seltzer either.
+
+[34:03] So I just keep everything on 45 all the time and I and I'm good. And I've been doing this for decades, like decades and decades and decades, unfortunately. That's how old I am. I've been doing this forever. I would say over two decades, three decades.
+
+[34:18] Anyway, so the um what I would uh caution against is that uh you need much higher numbers if you're carbonating at room temperature. So 45 PSI is for water at you can even go a little lower when you're doing water, but but that's for water at zero, right? At ice water, and that's for cocktail just above its freezing point. The if you want to carbonate something when it's warm, then you need to go much higher. So when I run gas into a carbonator that's carbonating room temperature water, and then it's gonna go through a cold plate, I'm running it at like 110, 115, as high as it'll go.
+
+[34:57] I run the run a very much higher PSI. But that's because the uh solubility of gas in a liquid it goes up. The solubility of gas in a liquid goes up as the temperature goes down as opposed to solids, which is the opposite. All right. So I hope that answered uh that question.
+
+[35:16] Did that answer that question? Yeah. Yeah. Say so. Uh Adam.
+
+[35:21] Oh, Quinn, you're gonna get in on this. Adam says. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm gonna get up on screen. Yeah.
+
+[35:27] Are you guys uh are you guys traditionalists? Do you guys champ at the bit or chomp at the bit? Chomp. Yeah, traditionalists champ. They don't chomp.
+
+[35:36] Really? Yeah. It's supposed to be champ. I've just given up on the expression altogether because it frustrated me. Really?
+
+[35:43] So you were so frustrated by having to have the champ chomp discussion that you just don't use it anymore? And you say like opt it out. Yeah, because we have a word for it, excited. Foaming at the mouth. Oh foaming at the mouth.
+
+[35:55] That's good. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, foaming at the mouth. Rat. You know, yeah, nobody's worried about rabies anymore.
+
+[36:01] No one's like, my dad had rabies once. It just doesn't come up. You can make fun of like rabies, I think at this point, no? It's safe. It's PC to make fun of rabies.
+
+[36:13] Someone in my family got bit by a bat and they didn't catch it in time. They got rabies. I mean, like it's a horrible disease. Like if you don't get the shots, you die. Yeah.
+
+[36:22] You know what I mean? It's a terrible, terrible disease, and yet it's just not a thing anymore, right? Yeah. Anyway. Uh howdy.
+
+[36:32] I'm making uh so Quinn is foaming at the mouth for this one. Uh I'm making a low-fat, low calorie ice cream in my creamy just as a way to mix up my protein snacking uh while avoiding saturated fats. And in parens on doctor's orders, Adam, I I'm not gonna go too into this, but is your doctor just um like you follow whatever recommendations you feel comfortable with for your own health, obviously. You know what I mean? I will say that in my experience listening to doctors give orders to people about their diet, that it is often ill advised.
+
+[37:10] Now, I'm not saying that you need to that you should eat a ton of saturated fats. There's also, by the way, unsaturated fats that you can add to your ice creams, right? They don't have to be low fat. You can add unsaturated fats to your ice creams. I'll just say that, like, and by the way, like as I say, like, you know, like people are like, oh, some of my best friends are doctors.
+
+[37:26] My whole family, a lot of them, doctors, medical folk, right? They often give crackpot advice when it comes to uh foods because they're just reading things off of list. They can't be experts in everything. They can't like they can't know how to uh you know fix like some problem inside your body and whatever the current actual good research is on uh the effect of diet on on your health. They read like studies with done by people with access to grind, and you know, they they can't they don't no one has the time.
+
+[37:56] Doctors don't have the time to investigate this crap any more than you do. So I don't necessarily I take all orders with a grain of salt. You know what I'm saying? That's all I'm saying. Right?
+
+[38:04] Was that that was fair? Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, all right. Uh okay, that said, uh Adam has Quinn's book, which is good because it's cheap. Quinn, how much is that book cost?
+
+[38:14] That's five dollars. Five dollars. It is uh a download, but it is five dollars. Five dollars. Can you even buy a cup of coffee for five dollars anymore?
+
+[38:25] How much like espresso you can, but can you buy can you buy one of those big jugs of milk that they call coffee for five dollars? How much does that stuff cost now? Yeah, like six. Like a frappal lap of ding dong is like $6.50. Yeah.
+
+[38:37] All right. Uh so you should go get Quinn's book. That's what I'm saying. But Quinn's uh gelato doesn't quite overlap with low fat. Quinn, not a low fat uh man.
+
+[38:44] Still. I mean, everything is lower fit compared to many styles of ice cream. Like your cream and glaze base is 50-50 cream and milk, right? Oh, yeah, baby. Yeah.
+
+[39:04] And like, you know, you add enough egg to it that it doesn't overturn. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So I guess in theory, it again it is lower fit compared to other ice creams. Also, by the way, like, like when someone specifies cream and milk in the United States, it's an entirely different beast than specifying cream and milk in, let's say, the UK, where they have a such higher percentage butterfat cream.
+
+[39:28] You know what I mean? Like, we should all just be like, we should all be giving percentages when we talk. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, sorry. Um, 33 to 36.
+
+[39:36] Yeah, Canada and America, same on that stuff, right? If only we can get now the shipping between our two countries to work, we'll be all copesthetic. Uh still, the parts in uh Quinn's book on anti-freezing power, AFP, helped a ton. There are hundreds of recipes online that work wonderfully. Fresh bun, but I want something I can re-freeze and have on hand.
+
+[39:55] Uh, using AFP, I think I got close, but still have some questions. So it's a there's two basic, like, so the recipe is water, gelatin, xanthin gum, locust bean gum. Which do you think you would sell more if you called it St. John's bread? Is that like the plant bean?
+
+[40:14] Yeah. Isn't it the same? Isn't it St. John's? It's carob and they're all related.
+
+[40:19] They're all leguminous things, and they might all be the same. Locust beans sounds locust, doesn't sound good. I mean, like locust trees right now are blooming and they smell delightful, right? It's like, what's that delightful smell? And you're like, locust.
+
+[40:29] And they're like, ugh, ugh. You know what I mean? And black locust trees are amazing. Their bark is amazing. They look like haunted house trees.
+
+[40:41] They're awesome. It's just not a great word. No one likes locusts. You know what I mean? Like literally in the Bible, when they're gonna bring a plague, they're like, locusts.
+
+[40:50] You know what I mean? Anyway. Um heat water to 160 stirring let's set a few minutes, then add 300 milliliters. Now get this pre-mixed protein shake. Now that's a black box for you.
+
+[41:03] By the way, I I used the term black box with uh on a call to a bunch of people in China, and Nastasi was like, no one knows that term, you idiot. Just say what you mean. But it took forever for me to figure out like the long way of saying black box. You know what I mean? Yeah, crap whose internal workings are box yeah.
+
+[41:25] Imagine a box with a bunch of mechanisms inside, and you put something into the box, and then something happens inside the box, and something comes out, and you don't understand how that happened. Black box. You were happy. Why? Why were you happy, Nastasia?
+
+[41:46] Um, why were you happy that call was taking a long time? Oh, because it was 1 a.m. their time. I would have gone all the pleasures of the 12 hour flip when you're doing business uh across the world. Okay.
+
+[42:08] Uh Protein shake, peanut peep, pea, peanut butter protein. What's peanut butter protein? The hell's that? I I think it's like a flavored like protein powder would be my guest. All right.
+
+[42:28] What the hell is that? Peanut meal. What do you like soak peanut meal in hexane and then flash the hexane off and then freaking like just have like defatted peanut meal? I I don't know, you have to ask. Quinn, I'm putting this on you.
+
+[42:46] This is this putting this on you. Uh Brandy and Benedictine. I like Benedictine. Benny. Uh so anyway, so uh the question is, because they're thinking of swapping in uh pudding mix instead of gelatin.
+
+[42:59] And the question is which has stronger gelling power relative to flavor impact, gelatin or pudding mix. Well, uh Quinn on uh, you know, as uh Kanye said, I'm gonna let you have your time. But uh gelatin is the sine qua non of flavor release. If there's ever a question, what's gonna have better flavor release, gelatin or fill in the blank with any other thing, it's gonna be gelatin. A hundred percent of the time.
+
+[43:25] That is what the gelatin does. That is why people have a hard time getting rid of gelatin when they give up animal products. Because it is awesome. It's great. Putting starch.
+
+[43:36] Everyone knows starch covers the hell out of flavors. Anyway, uh, what do you think? Yeah, I got uh I was also going to not recommend storage, but also I think they're over. I mean, obviously they're trying to like soften it essentially just with alcohol, and then they're trying to like restabilize it. But I think they're stabilizer numbers are still really high, because again, scaling up for a full-size batch, that'd be eight grams of gelatin, four of Xanthem, and four of locust bean.
+
+[44:12] I think all of those could like dial down a little bit. Also, gelatin and xanthan have a weird interaction. They can make an unpleasant, they're not bringing the temperature high enough for the locust in dairy. Yeah. Here's another thing you should be uh aware of, Adam.
+
+[44:30] Um AFP, the freezing all the freezing power things are uh if you actually look at the curves of alcohol freezing, like if like an alcohol mixture freezing. Um, and the way the way that you calculate it is is you is you calculate the point of first crystal, then you uh then you do the math, you figure out what the current concentration is after the crystals come out, and then you recalculate the new freezing rate and you draw those curves. If you do it for just sugar and just alcohol, you'll see that they have different slopes. So you can hit a temperature where because all of these gelato things are based on freezing a certain amount of the liquid solid, right? But the problem is they have different slopes.
+
+[45:10] So anything that's done with alcohol as primary anti-freeze is going to melt faster. Yeah. Yeah. Just a little bit. I was concerned about that.
+
+[45:20] I also again I would consider having the non-saturated fat. Um again, the protein shake, as you said, is like a black box. So it's like, what's in that? Um. Yeah.
+
+[45:38] Protein and some sort of whipping agent. Rather, right? The proteins are probably their own whipping agent, right? Who knows? Who knows?
+
+[45:45] I don't know. But you know, look, send on the Patreon. Why don't you send a picture of the ingredient list on the uh on the two black boxes on the peanut powder and the uh and the stuff, and then uh Quinn can take a look at them and see what he thinks. Casus writes in, I want to run a forced carbonated drink at the restaurant I'm soon to open. Our build is tight, and a large CO2 tank would not fit behind the bar.
+
+[46:05] Recently, in the punch article, I saw Dave working a setup with a noticeably smaller tank about the size that would fit in an ice well along the bottles. How many liter bottles can I expect a two-pound tank to carbonate? And can I build my setup with a shorter line and uh smaller regulator so it's less cumbersome in my well? I would not do that. I would not do that.
+
+[46:21] Those things run out very quickly, they're expensive. Those regulators aren't good for uh actual service use. My question, do you have a basement? You can run your CO2 line for like a hundred feet, and it doesn't matter, right? Like, so what you get what's called a small secondary regulator, they're like 35, 40 bucks, and a primary regulator that's right on the tank.
+
+[46:43] You set the primary regulator at like a hundred PSI, and then you run a line as long as you want, right? Of CO2 from the basement, from the bathroom, from like the office upstairs, wherever. It doesn't matter. It's thin. It's like a it's like a quarter of an inch, it's 12 millimeters, it's 12.1 millimeters across on the outside, the line that I use, all right?
+
+[47:04] And you run that line to the secondary regulator, which is tiny. It's like, you know, the size of an orange. And that one you can set at your 45 PSI, and because it's coming in at 100 and going out at 45, you're not gonna have a drop over that hundred foot line. That's the way to go. Otherwise, you're gonna be spending a billion dollars on freaking soda screen tanks and they're gonna be running out every night, and then there's a leak.
+
+[47:23] God forbid, Jesus, don't do it. Don't do it. Don't. What do you think? Yeah?
+
+[47:28] Yeah. All right. Uh I did have one more thought about the frozen dessert. All right. Because I have done it a lot.
+
+[47:39] Again, my mom is somebody that when possible, if she's having high sugar, she likes it to be in the form of like something like a dried fruit, so that you're also getting some flavor at least. So I have done many successful frozen desserts with like dates or other dried fruit, and they actually work really well because they're contributing solids, and they're like mostly fructose and fructose. So they actually contribute a decent amount of uh anti-freezing. Yeah, remember the reason uh the reason that uh monosaccharides have twice the a roughly twice the uh freezing power is because you get two moles every every mole of so it's the the freezing uh depression is related to the actual number of molecules that you have, the actual number of of Jackie molecules you have in your recipe per unit, right? And so one mole of sucrose breaks down into two one mole each of glucose and fructose.
+
+[48:51] So if you invert your recipe, right, it has twice the uh anti freezing bar. This is why. If you make a recipe with, let's say, very high acid in it, and you add sugar to it, and then you cook it and don't freeze it right away, or if you store it for a long time. If you make a lemon, have you had this happen before? You make like a lemon sorbetto or something like this, and then Quinn, you tell me, and then you let it sit for like a month, and all of a sudden it doesn't have the AF it gets too soft because uh you've inverted the sugars.
+
+[49:19] This happened to you before. Uh well, two things. One, my lemon survey does not last that long. Two. Okay, I'm already adding like some glucose.
+
+[49:32] I'm not as much disaccharide in the formula to begin with. Um I haven't noticed that. I'm sure it would happen. Yeah, yeah. Uh all my surveys tend to be more like cold processed.
+
+[49:50] Right. Well, anytime you heat anytime you heat disaccharides with acid, you get inversion. Just something to keep aware of. That's all. That's all I'm trying to say.
+
+[49:58] Uh again, like four dates, four dried fruits. Depending on the exact ratios, you can actually make like perfectly balanced recipes in terms of like sweetness and texture with just fruit. So it does work. Yeah. Well, dates are almost all sugar.
+
+[50:17] I mean, date date date is a date is a way for people to feel good about eating sugar. You know what I mean? Also, dates and espresso, delicious. Great combination. What's your favorite date?
+
+[50:29] Who's got the fate? Who's got a favorite date? I'm basically I think I've I've only had major, I think. Oh, Twin, what the hell? You order like all of these fancy things, and you look, medules are delicious, right?
+
+[50:46] But it's just a big sugar bomb. I mean, they're great. Dave, look at that sign. Dry rhining. Oh, you're killing me.
+
+[50:51] I just got fishbowls with a sign that says drive rind. Killing me. Killing me. Oh, the solo patrol is out to get me. Anyway, uh.
+
+[51:11] Okay. Mathman writes in, how do you manage recipes both in progress and completed ones? I use a mixture of OneNote, Obsidian, and Paprika. I was like, Paprika, the spice? What's paprika?
+
+[51:22] Is that like an online note-taking thing? Alright. It's a recipe app. Yeah. To do this and wanted to know what professional book writers, chefs, et cetera, use to manage it all.
+
+[51:32] Well, so I'm very bad at it, which is why it takes me a long time to do everything. But uh Wiley, uh, my brother-in-law Wiley, a couple of years ago switched from notebooks. So I I used to just keep notebooks because the problem is is that I don't, I'm not sitting there typing into a computer when I'm working and I'm adding little drips and drafts. So I would just have like just notebook after notebook after notebook. Anytime someone gives away free notebooks, like at a booze event, I'm like, oh notebooks.
+
+[51:56] You know what I mean? And then like I But the problem is is that like you have to kind of remember what's in each notebook, and I don't go through I don't keep I'm not smart enough to like be like, this is this month, and then can figure it out. So I recently uh switched to a remarkable tablet. The my iPad just never got friendly enough for doing that. And so now I just as I'm working in the kitchen, I write all my notes in the remarkable, it can go up to my computer, and then when I feel like I've got something that I can keep, I just have like bunches of Word documents with uh NXL documents that I I use to actually track what's what's going on.
+
+[52:35] So like usually I'll have like a bunch of recipes in a Word document that are related to each other and then folder, and then I'll have also an Excel sheet that goes with it where I can do like massive amounts of calculations and switching around. Really on cocktail recipes, I tend to keep them in this shows how old I am, an access database, right? Because I have so much uh I have so much software that I wrote into the functionality into the database that I I can't leave it yet. Anyway, that makes sense. What do you what do you use, John?
+
+[53:03] Yeah. No pad small skins. Yeah. Yeah. With Quinny Fresh, what program do you use?
+
+[53:08] I know you're a computer-based. I'm I've got I've got just literally a giant single Google Doc for like all my miscellaneous recipes. And then I have obviously there's an actual document where I planned the book, and then there is like a number of different uh spreadsheets. So there's like there's a feedback loop between sort of making uh first version of a recipe, turning that into a spreadsheet, if it needs to be like adaptable, and then you sort of feedback loop until you get a good result. On my urn when I die, wrote never figured out Google Docs.
+
+[53:59] You know what I mean? Anyway, uh Nikki writes in at my brother's restaurant, they make this passion fruit rum liqueur in a six-liter to eight-liter cambro, allowed a thaw for 30 minutes, one kilogram of passion fruit puree. By the way, you have to specify all the passion fruit purees are different. Everybody as going back to Rosemary's baby, every passion fruit is different. Anastasia's favorite fruit, by the way.
+
+[54:24] One kilogram passion fruit puree breakdown of the Mersion Blender, one liter El Dorado rum and 950 grams of sugar. You're not kidding with your sugar, huh? One liter of rum and 950 grams of sugar and a kilo of passion fruit puree, add sweetened rum mixture to pattern with puree, slush brandly merged blitter, uh, and use within two years to make sure it breaks. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[54:46] Well, because it's not, yeah. I mean, I don't know what uh Nikki, I'm gonna have to think about this. First of all, I wonder what the bricks of it tell me the bricks of your passion fruit puree so I can figure out how much more sugar you're adding to the puree. I would melt the sh mean it. All right.
+
+[55:03] Yeah, I just need to know more. Nikki, tell me more. We can stabilize this, right? We can stabilize this. Tell me the actual brand of puree you're using.
+
+[55:11] Um, I don't know what would I use to stabilize that. I'd have to think about it. Wait, how much how goopy do you want it to be? I mean, Xanthan's the goop of choice for stabilization, but it's like if you add just enough of the Xanthan to keep it stabilized, so you could if if you add just enough xanthan to keep it stabilized when it's in the bottle and you're not worried about it destabilizing when you use it in a drink, then I would say xanthan's gonna be okay if you stayed down at like yeah, like point like 0.125% in that range. Uh but you should hydrate all that crap in the water, right?
+
+[55:49] Because you're you're it's just over. Yeah, I'd have to look at the I'd have to do the spec and and the numbers, but uh yeah, I would say a little bit of chantana uh would uh not be so bad. You could use some other stabilizers too. Anyway, what do you think, Quinn? You got anything?
+
+[56:06] Coco Lopez, by the way, which you call out. Coco Lopez is like it's like half stabilizer. That's why, because coconut milk is the hardest thing to stabilize. You know, you're like passion fruit's actually not a real problem to stabilize because it doesn't have a problem fat. Coconut milk has a problem fat in that coconut fat is very hard.
+
+[56:24] And so it's hard to stabilize without using some serious stabilization. And so that's how Coca Lopez works. And that's why that parrot has that look on its face when it's on the outside of the freaking can. You know what I mean? Uh, because of all the stabilizers consuming.
+
+[56:37] Uh what do you say, Quinn? You had you had a suggestion? Yeah, I was gonna say maybe probably maybe acacia, or like you recommend a little thing, like a particular. No, acacia's not gonna do it on its own. I mean, usually like you can add uh you can add uh uh cum arabic slash acacia.
+
+[56:55] I usually use that when there is some oil in it, though, for its emulsification capabilities. Um because it's relatively low viscosity on its own. Um, but you know, not gonna hurt you. Adding a little bit of uh adding a little bit of that ain't gonna hurt you. Ain't gonna hurt you a lot.
+
+[57:12] It's a lot of sugar. I gotta look at the numbers. It depends on the bricks of the of the stuff. Like, let's say there was no sugar in the passion for passion fruit. Then you're talking about adding still more one-to-one simple syrup than there is liquor in it.
+
+[57:24] I mean, it's real sweet. You know what I mean? But that's what they're looking for. They're using it basically as a stabilized syrup, maybe, because it's shelf stable for a year. So really they're using the alcohol as a stabilizer.
+
+[57:34] But you're this is this is a look like sham board kind of a situation. You know what I'm saying? A sham board. Um, and they don't have solids in it. That's how they do it, right?
+
+[57:44] You could clarify this mother. That'll that'll work. You know what I mean? Then it's stable forever. Forever.
+
+[57:52] Um, all right. So uh Jesse is trying to recreate the H E Bitad Imitad Tortillas. What is it? I don't know, Mita Imitad. But uh H-E B is the, you know, here everything is better, MITA y mito.
+
+[58:06] Not heb. I asked. I was like, H-E-B-Mart. I was like, I don't know how to say the name of our store. What the hell is going on?
+
+[58:13] You know what I mean? And they're like, it's pronounced H-E-B. I'm like, well, it just doesn't make sense. It's Texas. I don't understand it.
+
+[58:18] Uh, I have a pack I brought from the source for reference, but I was wondering if anyone has starting point recipe, so I wouldn't have to go from scratch. Unbleached, enriched wheat flour, yellow corn masa flour, water, wheat gluten, palm oil. So, okay, I I got it for you. Go to Macienda and buy the the mix, buy the mix that they made of um of masa uh or their masica and uh Hayden's Hayden Flour Mills uh White Sonorin. Buy that.
+
+[58:42] Just use that. And uh make sure to add fat. Uh I don't really think it matters whether you whether you use warm water or not, uh, because it's gonna be good. All right. Um Tony Tony Tony, I haven't looked at your hex clad uh pan, so I don't know.
+
+[58:56] I'll look at that for next week to see whether or not that's a good frying pan to buy. By the way, I'm modifying my fryer finally to be 3,000 watts. 3,000 watts. Uh MT says we're headed to Paris to celebrate a significant birth, and I'd love all your recommendations for restaurants and cooling everything to see. Triple B in September.
+
+[59:13] Go on the Patreon. I'm sure John's all parised up in there, no? Yeah, definitely on the Google map. Is Bartolome in there? I don't think so.
+
+[59:22] What the hell, man? It's been a while. What about the Beaufort place that's over by the Garden Luxembourg? No, it should be though. Oh my god, that Beaufort place is amazing.
+
+[59:31] Do you like Beaufort cheese? Yeah. You're a person, aren't you? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[59:34] Beaufort is delicious. Don't get the grubby one. Get the really good one. It takes three days for that lady to like you. Three days.
+
+[59:41] If you go there every day for three days, eventually she'll be like, okay, you get the good cheese. And they're open whenever when the rest of Paris is closed because it's some sort of thingamajig. Anyway. Um, I only got six seconds. Uh S, I'll get you on vacuum ceiling next time.
+
+[59:57] And more vacuum pump from Neurologic. We got that. Nate and uh Thai basil dacquari. I'll get you all of this the next time around. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, News Dance Studios, joined uh with only actually it's only you and me today in the studio, Joe. Joe Hazen. How you doing? Doing all right.
+
+[0:23] Uh John's feeling uh under the under the weather, so he's uh staying home tonight, you know. Sorry for you, John. Yeah, or today. Yeah, sorry too. Uh hopefully he'll be back uh next week.
+
+[0:34] Uh joined in the upper left hand by Quinn. How you doing? I'm good. Good. Uh not in Los Angeles.
+
+[0:42] We have well, actually, let's do Los Angeles first. I think Jack, you are in Los Angeles now, correct? You're back? Yes. Yes, I am here.
+
+[0:50] We have Mr. Molecules there, and then headed all the way back over to almost New York, but not quite. We have Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How are you doing, Staz? I'm good.
+
+[1:00] Back on our coast again. Awesome. And and to make up for the fact that we don't have John, very, very special uh long time uh old old time cooking issues friend of show, Jordan Rothman. How you doing? I'm so good.
+
+[1:16] I'm happy to be here, John today, baby. Yeah. Well, you know, as long as it starts with a with a J. We need two J's on every show, so that's how it goes. Um, before I start.
+
+[1:28] What's the joke? Everyone here but Quinn has at one point at least lived in New York City. Is it just New York people that think that they can spout off at you at random as they're like speeding by and not have you yell back at them? Or is that everyone everywhere and it's just there's more people in New York? I don't understand the question.
+
+[1:50] Like I'm I'm on a I'm on a first of all, like when you're on a bike, in New In New York, there's there's a there's a rage situation between pedestrians and both bikers and drivers. And there's a rage situation between bike, there's a rage situation between all three people at all times, infinite rage between all three groups directed against the other two groups, no matter which group you're in, right? But today, I'm on the bike, right? On a city bike, which is by the way, slow. I mean, you know, I make it go as fast as I can, but it's slow.
+
+[2:20] So I zip up to the thing, and then I'm I've got my hands on the brake. Anyone with the eyes can see I've got my hands on the brake. I'm stopping because it's a red light. Now he stopped me. And a guy on a bike who's meandering around without a helmet, right?
+
+[2:32] Tells me I need to slow down and stop because it's a red light for pedestrians. I'm like, so and then he thinks he can just say that and and go on. I'm like, sir, one, you're not a pedestrian, you're on a bicycle. Two, you're weaving around. Three, I am stopping.
+
+[2:45] Here I am, stopped. And then he starts going, and then I'm like, have a nice day. He flips me, uh uh he yells something back at me. I look at him, I go, oh, and by the way, you're uh yell at him. I was like, my brother, you're driving the wrong way up a one-way street with you and your talking.
+
+[2:59] You and your talking are going the wrong way up a one-way street. And he flicks me off. So I give the loudest have a nice day I've ever given in my life. Like such a loud have a nice day. And like even the crossing guard was like, Yep, that guy's a jerk.
+
+[3:12] But is that a New York thing that people think they can like with without repercussions start talking to people that no one's gonna spout back at them or what? This sounds like an extremely New York story. I do feel like I do have a lot of thoughts. On the one hand, I think that you did start the story by saying that the bike is slow. That does feel a little bit like a blame the equipment situation.
+
+[3:38] Well, but that should be in my favor because I should be going slow. You should be like, oh, this person's not a threat. They're they're on the equivalent of a potato bug for a bicycle. You know what I'm saying? Sure.
+
+[3:48] Sure. And that should be in my favor. If you see a potato bug coming, even a pedestrian can get out of the way of a potato bug. Here's the thing. We're all just doing our best.
+
+[3:58] You know what I mean? That's the thing. I don't think this guy was doing his best. I think this guy thought he could vent his anger about his life and like what a cesspool his life is, right? On somebody else without repercussion.
+
+[4:11] Answer is you can't do that. The whole reason New York sucks to live in is because you have to absorb and absorb and absorb and not give off. You know what I'm saying? And once you give off, you have to get it back. That's what that's the whole thing here.
+
+[4:28] Is that you get to take out your aggression on strangers? That's literally in the charter. That's why you do it. No, no, no. That's the kind of person who hits people in the head with bricks.
+
+[4:38] You can't do that. Like it's about absorbing and swallowing all of your race. If if if everyone, if all eight million of us let go and like imagine, imagine. Imagine Wild West. I mean, thank God there's air conditioning in most places here.
+
+[4:54] You know what I mean? Thank God. I mean, I told you that's my theory about the Wild West, right? Everyone's like, oh, why did everyone get shot in the Wild West? It's not because there's no law, it's because there's no air conditioning.
+
+[5:06] Imagine if people are getting into arguments and it's 120 degrees outside. It's so much easier just to shoot somebody. You know what I mean? I do feel weird about this conversation. All right.
+
+[5:19] Okay. Anyways, uh, if you're listening live on Patreon, call your questions to uh 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-195-195-1975. And uh, if they want to be on the Patreon, Quinn, uh, what should they do and why should they do it? Uh they should go to Patreon.com slash cooking issues.
+
+[5:41] You get the uh show early, you get prioritized answers to your questions. You get to join the Discord where a bunch of nerds continue talking about this stuff at any hour of the day, including illustrious guests like uh Kevin from Luna. Yeah. So it's a pretty fun chat room. Yeah, and uh speak speaking of people who are going to be guests, we're gonna have uh Edward Poe from Edward AIDS Ed Edwards Aged Meets in about uh a month, so start gathering all of your aged meat questions.
+
+[6:19] Um I had something else. Uh oh yeah. Also, uh from the Patreon, a shout out to Mad Sushi. Now we're having a discussion internally whether listener Mad Sushi is angry about sushi or likes mad sushi, aka lots of sushi. What do you guys think?
+
+[6:38] It has to be a lot. A lot? Yeah. Like you can't think like I'm mad about sushi. You know what I mean?
+
+[6:45] Well, oh, I see like m mad about Harry kind of thing. He's he's just wild about me, that kind of situation. Oh, that's interesting. I was thinking more of like all riser Helen Hunt. Oh, mad about you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[6:58] Uh you know what? That was a good show, but I didn't watch it. Did you watch that show? You know, I I think I was like a little young for it. Yes.
+
+[7:07] Yeah. Uh so I was assuming Mad Sushi was like could be a combination of mad as in slang for a little bit baddie and also like lots of and could be pulling a pivon, like maybe eat so much tuna, like like pretends that the reason that they're violent towards others is because of mercury poisoning. You know what I mean? That's probably it. Yeah.
+
+[7:30] Yeah. Yeah. I think there was someone recently who tried the pivot defense, like also did something unconscionable and tried to pivot their way out of it by being like, too much tuna, too much tuna. And I have to say, even though I tell Booker that he's gonna die from mercury poisoning because of all of the freaking tuna heeds, can after can after can over can for can of can, like uh, I mean, it doesn't seem any more or less mercury poison than he did before, although please don't tell him that because I have no breaks on the tuna machine if if that happens. Boy, it's only fish.
+
+[7:59] Only fish. It's crazy. Uh only fish. Only fish. Uh only fish.
+
+[8:05] Only fish fans for aquarium lovers. Only what? Only fans for aquarium lovers. Yeah, yeah. Well, he see, he eats what does he eat?
+
+[8:16] I tried to branch out. So the other day I bought uh skate. You know, I love cooking skate because you can just beat the ever loving crap out of it, and it still tastes good. You know what I mean? It's the fish that you can hammer real hard and it still tastes good.
+
+[8:30] I don't like it if it's under. You guys don't I don't like skate when it's under though. You guys, what what do you guys think? Skate wing? Yeah, I don't like an undercooked skate wing.
+
+[8:40] I don't like an undercooked skate. Yeah. It gives me well, what is the name of that thing that people feel when they like look at coral wreaths or like hives? It's um you know, where things are not wait, wait, hold on. I don't understand.
+
+[8:55] Like beehives. I'm trying to get what the thing is between the two. You mean is this a visual thing or like are you afraid of coral or do you love looking at beehives? Because when I think of coral reefs, I think beauty and wonder. Well, you know, that's great for you.
+
+[9:09] I am talking about me. Yeah, um but there's like a sensation that you get that some people get when they look at things that have like a lot of holes in them, it's like a phobia. And it's like it's pro reef or beehive, like certain things that like make your skin crawl. It's like a I don't know, it's like an evolution thing that predators had lots of eyes. I don't fucking know.
+
+[9:31] Something like that. I have not heard of this. This is interesting. What about sponges? Same.
+
+[9:36] Yeah, there's like a similar it can be a similar thing. And I think that I don't know, skate kind of does that to me a little. All the lines, you mean all the lines? Yeah, like the spanned out. There's something about it.
+
+[9:47] Yeah. What about like the hammer open bird wings like a soaring eagle? No, I'm into that. That makes me feel wild and free. All right, okay.
+
+[9:56] Yeah. What about skates when they're alive under under the water? They look kind of cool. That's okay. Because you can't really see the lines.
+
+[10:03] They look kind of more just like big fans then, right? I you know what? I don't have any firsthand experience to say. But I but I do I see what you're saying, and I and I want to say that I would be experiencing on wonder if I fell a skate under under the under the sea. I mean, they just look like rays, but like not like cool colors.
+
+[10:24] You know what I mean? They look like whatever. Anyway, but the point is, here's something weird about uh skates. Did you know that until recently, I'm sure you did, that they were considered a trash fish and people would throw them away. And that uh one thing that they used to say they would do, which I can't believe because they don't taste at all similar, is that they would make fake scallops out of them.
+
+[10:41] So they would take the center, the the closer to the center portion, it's a thicker portions of the skate wings, so not the part that you're afraid of. And they would stamp circles out of it as though they were scallops and sell them as fake scallops. But it doesn't make any sense because they don't have the texture of scallops and they don't taste like scallops. So like who's buying these as scallops, you know what I'm saying? Nobody knows anything.
+
+[11:01] I can kind of see the texture. Really? Like if you yeah, if you really hit escape flesh hard, and then you're like, oh, sorry, I overcooked the scallops. But the fibers go the wrong way. Well, it depends on which way you cut it, I guess.
+
+[11:20] But a skate is thin. You can't cut a scallop the other you can't I I don't I don't see. Uh you are you saying like they cut they cut little scallops, they cut it the other way? Yeah. Like bay scallops, they really don't taste like bay scallops.
+
+[11:34] You can get little scallops. I mean, you know, listen, if you if you're buying little scallops, you better be buying them like in Nantucket, like right off the freaking boat. Those things are damned delicious, right? Otherwise, you know, if you're buying like some tiny scallop that was shipped eight billion miles and been like, you know, festering in its own filth and like you know, treated with like all sorts of garbage to keep it from going bad and from losing all of its liquid, like, you know, not as nice. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[12:02] But I guess you're buying fake scallops anyway, so who cares? You know what I mean? I think maybe like an accessibility problem that is emerging from from that. But I do think that um, I don't know, like people don't even realize that like imitation crab meat is not crab meat. You know, I I don't know I like Cerimi.
+
+[12:22] I use Curimi all the time. I think Cerimi should be its own thing. I think you should stop calling it imitation crab meat and and just call it California roll juice or something like this. You know what I mean? Do you not like sure me?
+
+[12:29] I think surimi makes a good seafood salad. No, I'm not a judgment, a judgment call on surimi or imitation crab meat at all. My point is that from a consumer perspective, if the cons if plenty of consumers do not know that that is not crab meat and are fine with that information. I think that there's an equally compelling case to be made. The people who were or are buying stamped out scallops, imitation scallops made out of skate wings, probably don't know the difference and or care.
+
+[13:04] Do you know what I'm saying? Well, I don't because I've never seen one of these things. And neither of you, because you said you didn't. Like we don't even know what these things look like. It doesn't even make sense to me.
+
+[13:13] You know what I'm saying? Like, at least the crab things are colored like crab. They don't look like crab to me, but I I mean I in other words, I get some aspect of it, although of course you would imagine that crabs wouldn't grow their own flesh wrapped in plastic tubes, right? I mean, you would guess that, which I don't know why that I don't know why that stuff comes in plastic tubes. Piss that that ticks me off.
+
+[13:33] Like, have you ever had to do that? What for uh what is it going on 30 years? I've been doing it. I've been farming it, and it's going really well. And I'm excited to I'm excited for the new business.
+
+[13:48] Wait, what do you say? What do you what are you lying about farming for 30 years now? My own flesh. Oh, nice. You know, uh I you know, you were uncomfortable with the first segment of this show, and now you're taking us into cannibalism, which I appreciate because that has been a long time uh topic that we haven't brought up in a long time.
+
+[14:08] I don't feel it's time to bring back the would you eat your own arm situation if you had to, or if you or you know, if you had the opportunity to. I don't think it's time to bring that back yet. I don't think we should ever bring that back. Okay. I sort of feel like I know where you I mean you know where I stand on it.
+
+[14:25] I do. You know I do know where you stand. Yeah, don't let it go to waste. And it sounds like you're the same way. Well, it's with all of the you know developments in lab-grown meat.
+
+[14:35] Well, are there actually are there actually a lot of developments in lab-grown meat, or is that one of those things with a lot of hoo-ha? Well, I don't think it's a lot of hoo-ha. I'm pretty sure like a year ago the FDA said that they don't even have to label it as lab grown. If it's I don't know, I have to look at it. I I know that there's someone who got their stuff passed, but that it's still far, far, far too expensive to actually make a dent and anything, and it was mainly chicken.
+
+[14:59] But I don't know. I I would totally eat lab-grown, you know, you know I'm waiting for like lab-grown uh whatever, you know. It's not that it's gonna taste like the real thing. It's like it's like I don't see how anytime soon you're gonna make anything grown in uh like a monocultural situation taste, especially like you know, everyone's so hyped up on the differences between even the different cows that they buy or the different pigs that they buy eat, the different chickens, all of the ways that they're raised, the what the impacts things have on flavor, the like uh what the feed that goes into it, and then to think that you can monoculturally raise cells in a dish and then make that same flavor. Yeah, I mean, like someday, you know, someday maybe I don't think any time.
+
+[15:45] Yeah, but Dave, you're you're thinking about the high end too much. No, but the low-end meat is cheap. That's what my point is. Is that if if the lab-grown meat is gonna cost 20 times as much as anything that we eat, which is going to for a while, then it better be like as good as the best stuff. It is a high-end proposition.
+
+[16:03] Right? There is no right now technology where we're gonna feed the world fake lab grown meat, and it's going to actually be more carbon neutral and cheaper and better for the environment than what we're doing right now, right? Beef maybe, because beef is such a beef is such a bad proposition from uh from uh um an input standpoint. But not chicken perspective, right? Not chicken, and that's the first one that they're that they're that they're doing.
+
+[16:29] Like chicken's the most efficient animal that we raise. I mean, there's lots of externalities that that you know aren't getting erased, but I'm sure there's gonna be externalities in this other stuff as well. I mean, so in other words, like I think it's a false I think it's a false thing to say, oh well no, it's we're only shooting at the low end. Well, if if if it's really low end, then you know, just buy impossible, which is uh, you know, a decent analog for low-end beef, right? Um, Dave, I have a proposition for you.
+
+[16:55] Uh-huh. Okay. Is your Patreon tiered? Yeah. It's tiered.
+
+[17:01] What's like the highest reward? I don't know. Gwen. Uh Access. Let me see the exact perks.
+
+[17:12] All right. Well, you look into that, a proposition for an even higher tier. Okay, let's hear it. On the data. Okay.
+
+[17:19] And here's what I'm thinking. Lab grown Dave Arnold flesh. And you sell it and it's in yakatory viewers. You go yakatory. I would say that would be.
+
+[17:33] That's more uh Kushioki, because yakki, I mean Tory means bird. So oh my gosh. So you're so particular, Quinn. Always um, really just I love your yes and style. Um, Nastasia, what's the name of that barbecue thing that you and Mark used to have?
+
+[17:51] Like little twisty thing. Well, is that the Croatian thing? Oh, speedy, speedy, speedies. No. Oh, wait, wait, wait.
+
+[17:57] You guys made speedies like like Syracuse? Yeah. You did you never came. You never come to MSF. Don't lie.
+
+[18:06] I I went to that thing that you had outside at that hellhole outside uh in the 40s with that cool tiny long grill with the little things that were like Speedies, but he was doing some sort of Euro thing and he bought that grill from Euro Trash people, Euro people. You know what I'm saying? Anyway, the point is that. You never go to any of my things. Crazy.
+
+[18:27] The point is is that I think the highest Patreon level is flesh of Dave Arnold grilled on the Spiadini, the little tiny rotisseries, and it doesn't, but it doesn't speak. It's just flesh. It's just meat. And and you can choose, you can either have it backpacked and sent to you for your own, you know, for your own like Memorial Day barbecue, whatever. Or highest highest level, Dave comes and cooks of himself.
+
+[18:56] Well, thankfully, Memorial Day is over. Well people, this isn't this is not this is not real people. It's not real. Not real. It is real people.
+
+[19:08] It's the FDA said that if it's on a cellular level, you don't have to label it lab grown. So actually it is real people. It's Aaron. I get it. I get it.
+
+[19:18] I get you. I get you. All right. Let's uh let's uh let's take a question while we're while we're uh while we're thinking about this. From Tony Tony, um okay, Tony Tony.
+
+[19:27] Umy wants to know about uh hex clad pans, right? Uh is it is it for a home cook on a budget with a gas stove, is the hex pan a good frying pan to buy? And I have to say, Tony, I have never I've never used one. I don't own one, and I've never used one. If I was gonna own have have any has anyone here owned one or used one?
+
+[19:51] I have not, but I would say the sentiment from 90% of people is that they're bad. Okay, but you know, just the sentiment I'm saying. I mean, I'm sure Tony Tony can look in other people's sentiments, right? He wants to know someone who's actually used it. I haven't used it, but I'll say this.
+
+[20:08] If you're going to buy uh a frying pan, uh I really the like if you look at if I look at all I'm looking in my head at all my pans hanging over my stove right now, the two things that I go for most, right? And what I have are uh in regular rotation, I have cast iron, I have uh black iron, you know, black iron thin, black, you know, black iron blue steel pan, I have, which are much lighter. Uh I have uh two sizes of Lincoln uh centurion, which are not all clad, they're disc bottom clad, very thick, right, uh aluminum cladding pants, like extremely fast, extremely even with thin sides, right? And uh an all a couple of all clads, different sizes, old school, D3s. And what I reach for, and I have a a nonstick, I have uh one of those uh green pans.
+
+[21:04] I've never had a nonstick pan that it has ever lasted. Let me put it that way. The green pan is now dented and dinged, my old scan pan's dented and dinged. I've never had a nonstick pan that has ever lasted for any length of time under the circumstances I put it through. It just hasn't happened.
+
+[21:20] So what I reach for probably most often are the centurion and the black uh iron. I reach only for the cast iron when I'm baking, and I rarely use my old allclad because there's not that much need for it. So I don't know if that helps. That makes sense. That's what I would get for a and by the way, like the the wherever Lincoln's uh centurion line, you can get those real cheap because people don't consider them beautiful pans.
+
+[21:46] They're food service pans. You can get them used on eBay, you can get lids for them. They can take a licking and keep on ticking. They are great pans and they're not overpriced. Uh make sense?
+
+[21:59] Anyone? Anyone? But they're not nonstick, right? I really do like uh the black steel because they're more lightweight. If you need something a little lighter weight than a cast iron and you want that non-stickness of cast iron, the black steel, the black iron uh thin iron pans uh are nice uh steel pans.
+
+[22:15] Uh anyone else have anything to add to pan land? Jordana, you can't. If you want a non stick, I would just get a nonstick. If you want a nonstick, just be prepared to throw it away in three months. That's all.
+
+[22:28] Because it's trash. Or use it only for the egg that you cook like once a week. Because it's and and make sure make sure you don't get yeah, but I mean, like, I don't know. I feel terrible throwing away pans all the time or then using them after they aren't really nonstick anymore. When honestly, a well treated black steel pan is as nonstick for most things as a nonstick pan.
+
+[22:53] You know? I feel like if you're using it once a week, it should last like six to twelve months. That's just, but that's I don't know, just to me, that's crazy. Like I have pans that I've have been in continuous service for like over 30 years, and my cast iron pan was at least 60 years old when I bought it. And it's still in continuous service to this day.
+
+[23:15] It just seems nuts to buy something that you know is trash. For what? Eggs don't stick to my black. When I cook eggs, I cook them in my in my black steel. Because I don't want to wait for the cast iron to heat up.
+
+[23:28] Anyway. I mean, has anyone here had a uh um a nonstick pan that has lasted for any length of time. No. I don't think I've ever had I don't think I've had a nonstick pan since maybe college. Yeah, right.
+
+[23:48] Now, they are a lot better than they used to be, right? I mean, that's true. I'm not gonna lie and say that they haven't gotten any better. Like, for instance, it used to be that if you had birds in the house and you let your your uh nonstick pan overheat, all your birds would die, like instantly, dead. Because when t when Teflon gets too birds, yeah, tefan all the way.
+
+[24:10] Uh volatilizing Teflon is extremely toxic to birds. So as as soon as pans get as like this is why most people who have like, especially parrots and other kind of like, you know, high value birds that they care about, like they don't allow Teflon pans anywhere near their house. Nowhere near it. Because like one you you step away from a Teflon pan like even one time and it goes over about five hundred and changed degrees, and you start getting fumes and all your parrots fall over dead. It's a nightmare.
+
+[24:44] There's a lot that I will say though, because it's like, okay, first of all, like the thing that you always hear about birds is that they live for like 800 years, you know. And so that's true, unless you cook an egg, you overcook an egg, then they uh they die. But I will say, just I don't want to be like a Pollyanna here. I don't want to like, ooh, life gives you lemons, you make lemonade. But if your parrot dies, then you could do the yakatory after all, so then you're not.
+
+[25:10] It's rough. People are very attached to the carrots. People are very attached. Oh, hey, you know what we forgot to say. So Mad Sushi, the Patreon listener, we get back to remember, we always eventually get back to it.
+
+[25:20] Fishbowled us last week with a uh a sign that merely said, and I mentioned it last week, dry brining. So someday, Mad Sushi, I hope that I'm walking past your place of business and can somehow, I don't know. I don't know what, but the thing is, I don't know, like most people aren't set off by things like the term dry brining in the way that I am. So like I'm uniquely open to this sort of attack. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[25:46] I mean, I don't know. Um Maybe you'll have to read happy sushi. It's fairly character. I don't think that's gonna make them mad though. Like, why would that make them mad?
+
+[25:55] You know what I mean? Anyway. Um, all right, Neurologic writes in anyone have suggestions for a reasonable vacuum pump oil to use for food adjacent things. Uh I'm gonna answer this right now. No.
+
+[26:08] Uh almost all of the uh even the silicone-based oils that you use for vacuum pumps, um, they don't smell okay once they start kind of burning up. But I'm gonna finish the rest of your question anyway, as uh they say I'm gonna give you your time. I've had uh I have a few rotary vein pumps that drive vacuum ovens and a vacuum distillation unit. I have a nice Welch uh pump oil in them, but it gets fouled by moisture fairly quickly, despite having a zeolite trap, which is a good it'd be great to use an oil that is more disposable, cheaper, but won't be nasty. Bonus points for something available at a brick and mortar store since shipping oils gets expensive.
+
+[26:44] Yeah, I mean, honestly, I just go to um I just go to uh refrigeration supply. I mean, like in New York City, there's a tons of refrigeration supply uh places, and you can just buy vacuum pump oil at them, or even a lot of plumbing places have vacuum pump oil because it's just something that comes up a lot in service because a lot of us have commercial refrigeration, and as everyone knows, commercial refrigeration breaks constantly. So you need vacuum pump oil because you need to evacuate all of the old uh refrigerant out of systems, take the vacuum all the way down to zero, and then often that oil gets contaminated, has to be swapped out. Uh, but I have never had an oil, no matter what price I paid for it, that didn't get nasty, especially once you're pumping uh, you know, uh moisture laden uh liquids through it. And uh I don't, you know, I mean I guess it's true I have used cheaper oils, and then you get a fog in the kitchen of oil, and that and that's no good.
+
+[27:40] But I wish I could say I had a good uh recommendation for you. Sorry. Um S writes in in a recent episode, Dave mentioned vacuum sealing grain for storage purposes. What sealerslash technique uh does he use? Uh if this question has been answered, uh point me towards it.
+
+[27:56] It's not a very interesting technical question, probably a one-sentence answer. Well, that's not one sentence. So I uh I use my um my multivac uh vacuum packer, right? And I bought so they make these things for sealing mason jars, and you have to get a wide mouth lid and a regular mouth lid, and then you just uh you fill up the mason jar and you put the lid but not the screw thing on, and then you stick the thing over it. And then I had to build a tube adapter to go into my vacuum pump because they don't make one.
+
+[28:26] So I like it because I didn't want to do anything too complicated, even though I've been using it now for you know over a year. I just bored out a cork. And the best way to bore out a uh a rubber cork is to take a metal straw and a straight one and put it into a cordless drill and drill the metal straw through the cordless drill. If you try to use a regular drill, it's gonna foul up, but the straw will go right through it, and then you can shove the tube into it, and then you connect it. You just gotta make sure you wet the gasket every now again, and that's it.
+
+[28:54] That's how I seal them in mason jars. And um you know how many bugs I've gotten in my uh in my larder since then? None. No bugs in my larder. No bugs.
+
+[29:05] Jordana's gonna sign off and say goodbye. No, goodbye, Jordana. Uh let us know when you find a supply of uh of uh human meat for us to uh put out on Patreon. I'm not finding it. I'm gonna come collect it from yourself.
+
+[29:18] Yeah, but you need the you need the growing containers and all that. I've got the growing container. Uh sure, sure you do, sure you do, sure you do. All right, uh, thanks for coming on, Jordana. See you soon, I hope.
+
+[29:28] Um Nate writes in the Dave, we never did we never did the weekly recap. What weekly recap? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, okay, okay.
+
+[29:39] I I can tell you're bringing it up because you have something that you want to uh what'd you do this week, Quinn Well went back to basics. I remember last week I mentioned we did gumbo. I had a big batch of dark roo. Mm-hmm. So I tried dark roux with milk for like a batchamel instead of uh white roux.
+
+[30:03] And then that didn't taste great on its own. But I used it as the hydration for bread, and it turned out pretty good. Well I was like, you used the dark roux instead of a prehydrated starch for Yeah. Well. So you accounted for the fat, I guess then, and then then didn't use fat in it?
+
+[30:32] And did you notice did you do well? I mean, there's fat in the roux, right? Yeah, but I'm saying like there's not much fat in the again. I I'm using the ro I used I made a a full batch of dark roux and milk cooked together. And then I used it for m multiple projects.
+
+[30:51] Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What wait hold on. You didn't make the roux as just flour and fat and then add the milk? Or you did? Yeah, yes, yes.
+
+[31:01] Okay. Yeah, I had already made roux. Right. From last week. I am not sure what the water holding capacity of fully cooked out uh roux is.
+
+[31:14] But did you do a side-by-side of like regular prehydrated flour versus the roux or not? You just say you like you gotta start doing these sign-by-size, man. Otherwise, how are you gonna know whether or not you just like the bread or whether what you did? I was more curious about the flavor impact. Well, but how do you know what the flavor impact was?
+
+[31:37] Unless you were were you testing it's a bread recipe that you know exactly what it tastes like? Or were regular bread tastes like. Well, but did did you follow it's not a regular bread recipe, in other words, what I'm saying. Like in other words, like, how do you know it's same same? That's my point.
+
+[31:55] I mean, it has a very distinct flavor. Okay. Okay. So you'd say this is something you'd try again? Yeah, I think I might say the thickening power is definitely not huge, but it's uh cooked roux.
+
+[32:13] I haven't tasted this yet because it's still in the freezer, but actually I also made a roux gelato, which might be good. Right. But my point back to the bread is unless you are using the same recipe all the time, like how can you tell what the power of it is if you don't have all your hydrations locked in? Are you using at least the same flour base that you typically use? So you know what the hydration should be?
+
+[32:40] Uh yeah, I'm using a similar recipe to what I've done. All right, so here's what I'm hearing from you. What I'm hearing from you is is that you like the flavor of it, but you need to do more work to see what its actual effect is on the functionality of the bread, other than the fact that it clearly probably tastes more like toasted stuff on the inside. Yeah. Yeah, I guess it has like a very unique, almost like natural peanut butter, almond butter, but still, you know, it wasn't too crazy in in the bread.
+
+[33:10] No. Oh, we have a toilet. Yep. Well, we got a caller. We'll we'll come back to the roux.
+
+[33:16] Caller, you're on the air. Hey, I've got it. This is Patrick Colling from from New York City. How are you doing? All right.
+
+[33:22] How you doing? Good. Hey, the roux conversation has reminded me of a long standing question I've been meaning to ask. Is does in a in a roux, you know, in a traditional New Orleans, you know, uh Louisiana style dish, does the quality of the flour, and I'm just talking about, you know, normal white flour make any taste difference, especially as the darker it gets. Because I'm I'm always inclined to use cheapo flour for that, but I don't know if there's actually any improvement with with better flours.
+
+[33:55] And again, I just wait. I'm not I'm you know, it's an excellent question. It's an excellent question. I I don't have I don't think any of us have tested, so we can't say if you asked me what my feeling is, I would say does not matter. That's my feeling, right?
+
+[34:13] Now, I mean, look, there's a massive difference in the water holding capacities of different flowers. Can be like up to like 20, 30 percent difference in water holding capacity between different flowers. So the thickening power could be different. I don't know, to be honest, I don't know how much cooking, especially to a dark stage, affects the thickening power of let's say so softer flowers, uh softer wheats, uh are usually usually have much more damage starch in them because the starch is easier. Sorry.
+
+[34:49] Wait, no, they have less damaged starch in them, so they take less water, they have less thickening power. You can add less water to them, right? Because they're soft, they're soft wheat. Harder wheats get more damaged starch, so they thicken things faster at room temperature. Once you're heating both of these things, the starch gets functionalized anyway.
+
+[35:07] So I don't really know about the water the hot, the the hot starch water holding capacity of uh um a hard wheat versus a soft wheat. Then you add in the fact that things like whole wheat flowers, right? The the the bran that's in that is going to absorb a lot of water cold, but doesn't have a lot of hot holding capability because that brand doesn't functionalize for hot holding the way that regular starch does. So I don't have a lot of data on the thickening power of different flowers, and then it's possible that even if one thickens better at a particular uh at a particular um like you know cold that they won't necessarily track that way once they're both heated to dark roos stage, right? They might change differently.
+
+[35:53] So there's a lot of things that I just don't know the answer to, but my guess is that it's not going to make that much of a difference. Does that make sense? Yeah, and I think that and this is something Quinn might be able to answer because I think he's done it. Is it can you pre-make roux and just free freeze it? Oh, does it have that's all I do?
+
+[36:12] And again, if you look like way, way back at like really old French books, it's all about you make the room first. And it's like a separate thing that you utilize. So yeah, I I tend to make my room ahead of time. And and and you what what unit do you freeze it in? Like what thought was your.
+
+[36:36] I just have these like random um silicone molds that make like a bar shape. So I'll just freeze them there, and then I grate them with like a cheese. And so, like in a gumbo style preparation, you would grate that, reheat it, and then cook like the Trinity. Why that's an oil. You took the Trinity.
+
+[37:01] I would cook the Trinity and then uh at least a little bit of liquid first, like your stock or whatever, and then you add the first you know, dose of roux. Why would you bother grating it? I mean, well no, with the soft roux, we just do a whole chunk. Yeah, but why would you ever grate it? Like if you if you're if you don't know if you're willing to use a little roux that's frozen, it's a convenient way to like distribute it into your own.
+
+[37:35] And what's what's your what's your preferred preferred fat. Okay, and for dark, I just did an oil. For a light room, I'll do a regular uh butter. Why interesting because you don't want the milk fat to darken? Yeah.
+
+[37:54] Yeah, except for I mean, I think that's part of what you get is the darkened milk solids out of that. Well, I like uh I Louisiana style, dark room is always done with oil, from what I've seen. Right, but you're all over the map here. You're going Frank, you're going to Louisiana. What I'm saying is like, I think it depends on your goal, right?
+
+[38:14] Yeah, I guess when I make I tend to make both extremes, and if I want somewhere in the middle, I can always yeah, mix them. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I hate grating, I hate grating. The only thing frozen thing I'll grate is butter for biscuits.
+
+[38:30] That's that's not what you need biscuits. I think it's the newer food on cooking, he says something offhand that I've never seen anywhere else. And I've tried it, and it's interesting is that he says that in Louisiana, cooks will combine different roos and different dishes for different thickening and different flavors. So I mean, I'm not remotely an expert or even an amateur in this, but I haven't I haven't seen it in any real life recipe or preparation. But that's sort of one of the I'm curious to know where that came from.
+
+[39:00] And if anyone, you know, in the cooking issues community has actually seen specific preparations with with that as well. Because it's always curious. It's like, well, these taste different, have different thickening powers, but what if you put them together? Does that actually create something that's more interesting than just one of, you know, one of the three three shades you get to in Louisiana cooking? I I don't have an answer.
+
+[39:22] Yeah, I don't I don't have an answer either, but I will say this. I know for sure that every Louisiana style cook I've spoken to would give all of us serious side eye on not just standing in front of the pan and stirring it forever until the roux is right. That's for sure. Well, do you have do you have a temp uh uh Dave for for the uh the um blanking on the on the product, the uh the the control freak, which you would actually you could set it at to get darker and not you know I have to say it really depends on on the actual unit and how maintained mine is moved over time, so mine now registers a couple of uh degrees lower than what the actual pan temperature is. I need to recalibrate it.
+
+[40:07] So like I can't I can't really say I do a lot of it by um eye. I don't do too much root roux work, like I'd say nine times out of ten, like the thing that I praise my control freak for constantly is is onions, which is a similar sort of problem, right? You want to cook it for a long, long, long time and just break it down. And usually I'm setting it uh at around uh around two fifty, and then after it starts breaking down, I'll drop it down to about two twenty-five in Fahrenheit and then let it go. And I don't get any real kind of like over browning or scorching at that.
+
+[40:43] But I don't think that's gonna get your root dark in any reasonable amount of time. So you might need to I I could I could tell you when I baked my hat. Yeah, I mean baking's a little different, but what do you what do you do? Like uh two seventy five, three hundred or something like this. I did I I did one sixty Celsius for two hours.
+
+[41:06] So that's what two That's hot. They're three twenty Fahrenheit ish. Yeah. Yeah, and then I did one seventy-five for another uh two hours. Yeah, but a lot's gonna depend on the actual transfer in your oven, you know.
+
+[41:21] Um there's a there's a lot there's a lot of things. You do it fairly fairly fast if you're if you're careful still, because that still seems like it's but pre-prep the block. Yeah, exactly. It's like I want my idea is like I'll I'll take uh I'll take more time if it means I have to be less careful. Yeah, I mean that's what I do with onions.
+
+[41:45] I mean like then you know, now I cook them for hours. I can cook them for an hour now, which is the best. The other thing I use is my uh I use my water pan, which I love. Love my water pan. Uh forget the why why do I forget the name of it?
+
+[41:57] Well, I saw I saw I saw I did see um Kristen Patroni had some red sauce recipe where he cooked, I think it was just onions and celery for four hours before adding the tomatoes, and then did the tomatoes for four hours, which seemed kind of bonkers, but now I'm sort of curious about the super low temp. I mean, yeah, I mean like it's an hour versus four hours would make any difference. Once it goes really long, once it goes really long, I mean you know what I mean, really long. But like for instance, uh I've said this before, but like uh, you know, I'll occasionally leave rice in my rice cooker for like 72 hours. Uh one time I left it for until it maxed out, my rice cooker maxed out, so like it was over 99 hours, and the flavor changes a little bit, but like not like a bunch, right?
+
+[42:45] So, like the question is how much can you dehydrate it without scorching? And so it's a lot of dehydrating. I mean the control freak is really good at taking uh a tomato sauce like down to at least half, right? So, you know, like even if you just take like decent canned tomatoes, blitz them, and then take them down to half in the control freak, it's gonna sputter a lot, be careful, right? But that is delicious and it takes a while, but I don't know if you need four hours.
+
+[43:11] You know what I mean? I mean, currently my induction is is a very cheap thing that has 20, 20 degree Fahrenheit temperature intervals, which aren't particularly accurate, which is still reasonable, so you know I'm not dealing in you know one or two two two Fahrenheit increments. I mean the control freak is I mean, like I I'm anxious to see how the inexpensive one works because it really uh I mean I I it's it's uh what's it called? It's uh it's it's it's really expensive, but I do use it constantly, right? So like if if someone were to take it away from me, I would be sad.
+
+[43:44] Let's put it that way. Oh, speaking of which, did I mention that my ANOVA broke? Did I talk about this? No? You told me.
+
+[43:52] I don't think you're told on the air. Okay, so my ANOVA precision oven breaks, right? Like dead. So, like, okay, so I love the ANOVA. I've said this a million times.
+
+[43:59] The main problem with it is it's it's too big to run off of a 110 socket. It doesn't have enough power really to do everything it's supposed to do. Uh, but if you can get around that and then it doesn't have the kind of juice that a real combi has in terms of its ability to really hit the hit the accelerator, then like it's an awesome piece of equipment. But much like a lot of the stuff that we work on, like it's a little bit beta, right? So um, in other words, bait you know, like it needs a little a little work.
+
+[44:30] So one of the issues I have with it, uh obviously anytime anyone cleans the front of it, uh it turns off or on. And if you have gl because it's got those weird capacitive sensors on the thing, and you and if you're using gloves to take things in and out of the APO, you can't turn the oven off with your gloves on, which sucks, right? The other thing that really ticks me off about the ANOVA is that the racks that are in it aren't sturdy enough so that uh or or the indents in the oven that hold the racks aren't deep enough such that if you stick something really heavy, like a big La Crusade La Crusade uh pot full of stuff, boom, the rack just falls to the bottom of the oven. If you're lucky, you don't spill it all over the inside of the oven. So those are two of the main things.
+
+[45:15] But the the coating on the inside of the uh door went south on me and started rusting. And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna ignore it. I'm gonna ignore this problem. Like the paint chipped and started rusting on the inside because it's not stainless, it's it's it's just painted metal.
+
+[45:30] I'm gonna ignore this problem. And then all of a sudden, oven wouldn't turn off one day, wouldn't turn off. So I was like, oh my God. So like I had to unplug the oven to turn it off, which is not something you want to have to do. I opened it up and I had to unscrew the door, I take the whole thing apart.
+
+[45:44] When I take it apart, I realize that they've had these wires, because they have the the door has the controls on it. There's these wires that go into the door. And after the time, open, close, open, close, open, close. Boom, the wires, but bye-bye, broken, right? So I was like, oh my God.
+
+[45:59] And then when I did it, I saw the how much rust there was on the inside of the door. I couldn't put the the front the glass back in it anymore because it was so rusted. I put navel jelly on it, which is you know what you use to get rid of rust, and it was so bad that I put my finger straight through the door. So I had to then like patch that and then the silicone or repainted it all with cryon barbecue paint and then clear coat. And then I bought a bunch of really high temp silicone.
+
+[46:25] I resolted all the wires and like coated them up and put it. So I got it back together again. But I would say no one but someone who knows how to build something could have fixed it. And you can't buy the door. You can't just buy the door.
+
+[46:37] Anyway. So I have an oven again, but trials and tribulations. But you know what though? For 700 bucks or whatever they sell it for, you there's nothing comparable. So I'm it's not like I don't recommend getting it.
+
+[46:50] It's just have your eyes open. You know what I'm saying? Anyway. Uh all right. Uh Nate uh says, your Thai basil d'acquer is one of my favorite drinks.
+
+[47:02] Had it one time at uh XCON and blender muddle them at home. My wife my wife chooses not to drink much, but will either have a sip of mine or have me pour her a tiny glass. What would your recommendation be for trying to create a low alcohol version? Would guess that you uh could denature of the enzymes with a relatively small amount of rum. If you could make it work mechanically, maybe a food processor instead of a blender, then top it with a non-alcoholic rum and finish the drink, or this could be a reason to work a little harder for some uh LN for nitrile muddling.
+
+[47:26] It's an interesting question, Nate. I mean, it'll stay somewhat fresh for uh a little bit of time. I would say, you know, my typical thing when I reduce alcohol is um you need to add some form of bodying agent other than sugar. So my like, and I don't uh you know, fair notice, I don't use a lot of the pre-made non-alcoholic uh spirits, so I don't know kind of what's in them, but the two things that I use are glycerin and polydextrose. Polydextrose, uh, you can add like a uh make a 50-50 polydextrose uh simple syrup and add that, and it adds no sweetness uh at all, but it does add the same body as the equivalent amount of sugar.
+
+[48:07] So you, you know, you can completely jack it with polydextrose and get some of that uh texture back. When the cocktails get very low alcohol on a shaken side, I tend to want to add a foaming agent to it. So you might want to add, like uh get one of the commercial foaming agents or like go look at someone's recipe for like a methylcel F50. So it's gonna be F like Franc 50 methyl cell uh like uh liquid, and usually it's gonna be a mixture of F50 with a little bit of Xanthan gum and maybe some depending on gum arabic, depending on which formulation people are using. But that's gonna add some foaminess.
+
+[48:46] And I find that in low alcohol shaking drinks, the only way to really make it feel like a drink because it doesn't hold air the same way, is to go all the way into kind of the the fluffy side, uh almost like an egg white texture. And that's gonna make it kind of more satisfying. It doesn't solve the problem that you're having that you're worried it's gonna oxidize, but um, it does kind of make the drink um taste a little more like a real cocktail for shaking drinks. Because shaking drinks are hard to make, both low and non-alcoholic, easier low and harder non. That uh that makes sense, folks?
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+[49:23] Was that making any sense? Mm-hmm. All right. Rob as hobbies writes in and wants to know about kokigori ice and cocktails, any standout bills to try. Any new thoughts on modified ice, such as coconut water, thinking of shaved frozen coconut water with a banana ustino.
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+[49:39] That sounds good. Um I've only ever used regular ice uh in my in my shave ice, and I tend not to so like for those of you that don't know, like the kakagori style, like there's actually ice left over when you're done. And so you know, the only way to do that is to put kind of the alcohol in the bottom of the drink and then build a lot of shaved ice on top of it. Uh that's not the you know, and then the stuff you pour on it, like syrup and all of that, doesn't melt the the ice nearly as much as alcohol does, right? So I've never done a I've never done a drink that shows uh up at the table, not almost fully melted.
+
+[50:21] So, like my style of doing it doesn't really lend itself to that, so I don't have any experience with it. So I, you know, the way I do it is I put some in the glass, I shave until you have a nice big pile, I take it to the table, I pour the the rest of the liquid on the top, and it instantly melts down into the coop and forms almost what is like a blender drink, but higher alcohol than a standard blender drink. Uh so I don't have any experience. If you can get a good shave out of like uh coconut water, that's great. I don't have a lot of experience with it because I like a very specific kind of shaved ice, and so usually ices that have flavors in them don't shave as nicely and they chum up.
+
+[50:59] They're fine, like if that's what you want, but they chum up. They don't have the same kind of amazing texture in my mind that uh the straight-shaved is. So I don't wish I had more, wish I had more information for you. Um, Mathman writes in, I love red wine vinegar on sandwiches and hate how low viscosity it is. Doesn't everyone, Math Man, you don't want that stuff to soup out.
+
+[51:19] Although the real hoagie lovers know that you want that like oil and vinegar on it, it's not the same without it, which is why when you buy one of those things and ship it, if if the if the places were spit, they'll package it separately. They'll put the meat and cheese and two pieces of paper on the inside of the bread and hand you the containers with the with the oil and the vinegar separately so that you make it when you get home, right? I mean, come on. Uh anyway, uh it makes the bread all soggy and drips everywhere. Mayo coating on the bread reduces sogginess, but it's still a mess.
+
+[51:47] Uh, how would you uh best thicken vinegar to make it cling? Would you use xanthan or uh modified cornstarch or guar? I mean, xanthan is gonna work. Uh the problem with Xanthan is is that you know you don't want it to get too snotty. You're not gonna use it in that high of a quantity.
+
+[52:01] I mean, you could easily with I mean, in other words, you could easily make it spreadable, right? You could make the vinegar spreadable. Um, but I wouldn't use straight Xanthan for it. I wonder, I'd have to think about what I would use. I mean, you don't want a little bit of little place to there.
+
+[52:19] Well, it's just gonna make it's gonna make it simple syrup, it's gonna make it like simple syrup, right? So it's gonna uh it doesn't have an extraordinarily high viscosity. So it depends on if all you're looking to do is make it a little bit thicker. If you want to make it, like I say, if you want to make it spreadable, right, then you're gonna have to like fairly well thicken it. But if you were gonna thicken it, you would want to thicken it with something that doesn't need to be heated, right?
+
+[52:44] And it's going to it's gonna reduce the flavor release of it if you use, let's say, I don't know how well ultra spurse will respond, and you're gonna want to use spurse, not techs. I don't know how well something like ultra spurse is going to respond to something that's that acidic just because I've never done it, right? Now, what you could do if you don't want to heat it, here's something you could do. You want to make something really spreadable. Now you're gonna have to use like twice as much as you ordinarily would, but if you make a very thick uh agar, like like two, three percent, right?
+
+[53:17] Boil it, and then add the vinegar to that and then let it set down, that will set. You could blend that into a fluid gel, and then you could have a spreadable kind of uh fluid gel. You want to end up at like half a percent or so of agar when you're when you're done. And it should be able to handle a fairly high acidity. I've done it with pretty acidic lemon.
+
+[53:39] I don't can't remember whether I've done it with vinegar or not. Uh and I don't remember what the pH limits on gel-an gum are, but maybe a fluid gel is the way to go. Yeah, because it's got pretty good flavor release and you want that much money. What you know, on the Patreon, it's like a forum, so people can't respond. Agilar fluid gel is exactly what uh Kevin suggested.
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+[54:03] Yeah, yeah, there you go. Agar fluid gel, baby. I, you know, everyone like goes for like all like the fancy folks like Wiley, my brother-in-law, they all go for gel-in because they have a lot around, but there's a lot to be said for agar just because it's so easy to buy. So when I can recommend something like Agar that you can just go to your local uh, you know, store and buy, I do. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[54:24] I buy the telephone. Well, gelatin hold up or no, no? No. Oh, and no, it's not that, it's just it won't, how you're gonna I mean you can set it, but you can't make a fluid gel with gelatin. What it doesn't hold, it doesn't read it doesn't have the same texture as like an agar fluid gel.
+
+[54:39] Go agar. Do agar. Agar. Agar's agar is an awesome thing. Uh L Butts writes in curious as to whether magnesium carbonate is still the best method for clarifying starchy liquids, uh, e.g.
+
+[54:56] ginger juice. Quinn alluded to in the past that there's a new method Dave was using, wondering if uh that method is uh what's what's OPSEC? Is that like top secret? Opsecomm, I don't know. Yeah, uh, or it can be explained.
+
+[55:08] Um having source uh trouble sourcing food grade magnesium carbonate within Australia. By the way, I might go to Australia. Is that still happening? Am I still maybe gonna go to Australia in September? Uh it's in the works.
+
+[55:20] Uh I actually have a lot of travel coming up, right? I'm going to going to Australia, going to Rochester soon. We have Brooklyn Bar Conference coming up. Tales of the Cocktail produced. Maybe Korea.
+
+[55:29] Maybe Korea, we'll see. Uh I know Monerist Pantry has a magnesium carbonate, but it's a significant delivery fee. Uh, would love to know about it. Okay, here's the problem. Um my god, hold a second.
+
+[55:41] Also, might want to explain the uh stas. You ready to get triggered? I don't know. What is it? All right.
+
+[55:48] Get ready for trigger warning for Nastasio Lopez. Also, you might want to explain to uh the Spinzall 2.0 to Dave Chang. He plugged in a 2.0 on a recent episode of his podcast and called it a rotovap. I had a little giggle. Had that are you okay?
+
+[56:03] Are you triggered? That should trigger you like pretty hard. Doesn't trigger me. I don't care what people say about me. You know, but I don'm all right.
+
+[56:15] That's what I'm saying. You're you know, anyway, that's funny. Um so listen, L. Uh when you're doing ginger, most of the work can be done just by adding a little bit of acidity to it along with the enzymes, and then it drops and you can get like 80% of the yield because ginger, if you treat it right with the with the enzymes and the wine finding agents, it drops real hard. So, like if you have a lot of experience clarifying, something like Granny Smith apple juice drops real hard and ginger drops real hard.
+
+[56:49] Remember, you have to do it with the alcohol. If you don't do it the alcohol, it doesn't taste as spicy. So that's what I do for the most of it. And then to get the last little bit clear, then I'll do the magnesium carbonate. The problem with magnesium carbonate is is it's not one thing, right?
+
+[57:06] If you can find the fluffy magnesium carbonate, then it's fluffy. If you buy it, it's not that expensive. So just buy whatever you get in Australia. If it's super, super fluffy, if like a two-pound bag is the size of like a 10-pound bag of rice, then you got the right stuff. If like two pounds fits into like, you know, something the size of a of a small sugar bag, then it's the wrong stuff.
+
+[57:28] It's too, it's too dense uh and it won't work. Uh was that enough of an answer, Quinn? All right. Uh, another one from Math Man. Uh, Dave, all of your opinions on how to make delicious fries at home.
+
+[57:43] What do you think of adding vinegar to the parboil water to provide flexibility to the fries to prevent their breaking? Ethan Chelbowski seems to do it uh to some sets, but I don't see it replicated in many places. Although Kenji talks about it back in 2010, which with his McDonald's fry recipe, which by the way, if you want to read about an earlier thing, you can read my writing about it in 2008. Boom! Boom!
+
+[58:04] Uh yeah, no, I I've done vinegar. I used to do vinegar fries back uh then. Hessen used to say he he did you here's the issue is that um it tastes good and they cook forever. You can go look at the old cooking issues section where I talked. I believe I didn't we write about that, Stas.
+
+[58:20] Doing the vinegar fries like we used to do all the time. Yeah, yeah, we did. Yeah, so it is viable, but it's it's a pain because it's like you use a lot of vinegar and then it smells like vinegar, and then you know the outsides cook, but the insides don't, so they get kind of beat up. But it tastes good and people like them and they ended up being pretty crunchy. I like it.
+
+[58:39] I would try it. Uh but go check out uh what I said about it back, you know, I don't know, 12 years, 13, 14, whatever, how many years ago we did it 14 years ago because uh it was much more fresh in my mind back then than it is uh now. Uh all right. So uh what else we got? Uh Jack, did you do anything this week?
+
+[58:58] You didn't tell me what you did this week. I know what Astasia did. She flew all the way from LA over to here. Nothing good? Yeah.
+
+[59:05] No, nothing good. Yeah, 56 seconds to come up by. Well, you're going out with the inimitable Jessica Harris, who was a guest on this show. Uh, and you know, everyone knows who Jessica Harris is, so hopefully you'll have some good stories. Bring it back next week.
+
+[59:18] We have another all tangent Tuesday, I believe, next week. Is that correct, Quinn? Uh no, it depends. Uh so who knows? Next week, maybe no tangents, maybe all tangents, maybe a guest.
+
+[59:32] We'll find out. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Own, your host of Cookie Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, New York City, Rockefeller Center, New Stand Studios, joined as usual with John here in the studio. How you doing? Doing better, thank you. Oh, great, great.
+
+[0:22] Got uh Joe Hazen rocking the panels behind me. What's up, Joe? Hey, hey, hey. Yeah. Yeah, we're on a Monday today.
+
+[0:28] So if you're listening live on the Patreon, it's not our normal day. It's uh it's a Monday. Uh in uh we do not have Nastasi the Hammer Lopez due to COVID, and we don't have Jackie Molecules due to being on an airplane. However, we do have in the upper upper, upper left-hand corner, Quinn in Vancouver Island. How you doing, Quinn?
+
+[0:45] Yeah, I made it. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Well, you know, we gotta have somebody from that coaster.
+
+[0:49] It's just not a show, maybe. Maybe we maybe we're no longer uh a show that can only be on on one coast. I think if Quinn can't do it, then you gotta get Dax to call in finally, you know. Oh my god, from from Juno selling vapes. I never thought that like my son was like, what do you what are you selling?
+
+[1:05] Vapes. I'm like, really? Anyway. Uh I mean, look, kids gotta make money. Kids gotta make money, gotta make money.
+
+[1:11] That's what the kids do. They they do vapes now. I don't know. Whatever. I'm old, I don't get it.
+
+[1:15] Uh and today we have two very special guests uh in the studio uh from the new but not yet released, right? It's gone to some screenings, but it's not yet released. They're looking for wider um distribution documentary, Coldwater Kitchen. We have co-director Mark Kurlianchik and star and head chef of the program in it, uh Chef Jimmy Lee Hill. How you guys doing?
+
+[1:37] We're great. Thank you. Thank you for having us. Yeah, excited to be here. All right, so I should I mention a little something about what you do first, and then normally at the beginning of the show, what we do is we just talk about anything that's happened over the past week.
+
+[1:48] All right. But so fundamentally, uh, just to give you guys if you, you know, you you know, just tuning in, um, Mark was the uh food food critic for Detroit Free Press. And where the people there they call it Freep, right? They don't call it the Detroit Free Press. Yeah, or the free press, but free it's freep.com.
+
+[2:05] Freep.com the Freep. All right. Free. The Freep. Anyway, uh, and you get uh a letter, I guess, right?
+
+[2:12] Or an email saying, Hey, do you want to come to this uh dinner at the Lakeland Correctional Facility in Coldwater, Michigan, which is I guess I don't know what, like an hour outside? No, it's like two, two and a half hours almost outside of Detroit. Two and a half hours outside of Detroit. All right. Uh and why don't you talk about that that letter?
+
+[2:28] What happened? Yeah, so actually the the letter wasn't even an invite. It was from um, you know, uh uh an incarcerated man that said, Hey, I'm I'm at Lakeland Correctional Facility in this culinary program. I've been the Sioux chef for 20 years, and uh I think what we do here is pretty special, and you should come check it out. And it was kind of open-ended, and then that letter went in my you know, my messy desk and just kind of got lost for a little while.
+
+[2:49] And this is Ernest Davis who wrote your exactly this is Ernest Davis who's who's in the film. Um and you know, eventually I did get an email from Jimmy saying, Hey, I have this symposium every year where we invite outside chefs to come see what we do. You know, would you come too? And I I said, sure. I've actually heard heard from some other chefs in the community that like his program was legitimate.
+
+[3:08] You know, being two and a half hours outside of Detroit is a little hard to justify, you know, spending an entire day going out to prison. I'm the I was the restaurant critic, so you know, what am I doing at a prison? Um but when I got there, you know, I walked in and it was kind of um it wasn't the easiest situation because I didn't have any of my clearance forms submitted. I had uh you know a spiral bound notebook that the guard immediately looked at me and said, You can't bring that in. Um and I almost didn't get in.
+
+[3:32] And I had driven two and a half hours, woke up really early that morning to be there. Why? And because of the wire? Because of the because of the wire, exactly. If you have a pen, you have to have it has to be a clear pen, you know, so you're not smuggling anything in.
+
+[3:43] And so um eventually they let me in um with just my camera. And it was one of those things where, you know, like when you go to a great restaurant after having a a bad day, and um, you know, even just walking in, the smells, the energy, there's jazz music playing, and I'm like, where am I right now? Immediately all that all those negative emotions that I felt, you know, getting in kind of washed away. And then they had prepared a wild game feast. And I'm telling you, it was like roasted pheasant breasts with calvados cream sauce and avocado puree, duck confit salad, um seared bison with purple potato mash.
+
+[4:19] I mean, it was it was like out of a Jim Harrison essay, you know what I mean? It was it was almost like debaucherous. Somebody's pouring wine. I mean, it's not real wine, it's uh sparkling grape juice, but he's talking about the terroir. I'm like, what, you know, and outside of Right because he was sommelier training.
+
+[4:32] I read the read the article and like interested in local Michigan wines, like well at that point from a theoretical basis, but yeah. And then just outside of the classroom, there's this huge garden, it's the size of a football field where they're growing every I mean, asparagus, strawberries, uh squash, tomatoes. From the looks of it, some good stuff. Amazing stuff, amazing stuff. Um, and so yeah, I mean, so that was kind of the the beginning.
+
+[4:53] That was um that was more than six years ago now. But that's it, it's it's not it's not in the fruit belt of Michigan, though, right? It's in normal Michigan. It's in Southeast, yeah, exactly, Southeast Michigan. But you know, I mean, Michigan is the second most uh biodiverse agricultural state after California.
+
+[5:07] So things grow everywhere. You know, you don't have to be in the fruit belt necessarily. Um but yeah, so that was the beginning of it. I got in, I wrote a story about it for the free press. Um, you know, even there, so I have a background in documentary film as well.
+
+[5:20] I have a I went to Berkeley uh grad school for documentary, and I was kind of casting about for my next big project. And while sitting and having that lunch, I was like, this is you know, this story is only gonna scratch the surface. I need to spend some time here. We need to tell this deeper story and tell it widely because what's going on inside these prison walls is amazing. And uh, you know, and then learning a little bit more about Chef and kind of his his perspective.
+
+[5:43] Um I immediately started asking for for access and said, Hey, can I come back and bring video cameras? And uh one of the administrators basically immediately shut me down. He said, No, the the Michigan Department of Corrections does not allow video cameras, it's against our policy. So good luck. You know, you can talk to the PIO, but I doubt you'll get in here.
+
+[6:01] What's P A O Well? Public Information Officer. So the you know, the kind of the the person who interfaces with the press. Um and I did, and they like the story, I guess, enough to say, hey, come on back. We negotiated access and we shot for 18 months inside and then followed some of the guys outside of the as they kind of left the program and re-entered.
+
+[6:19] But is that the reason why all of the footage is inside the program? Because like there is zero access outside. Correct. I mean, we'll get back to it after we do our weekly chit chat, but I think one of the interesting things is uh uh about the the documentary, which I hope everyone hearing this gets to see eventually, um, is there's like multiple layers of inside outside, right? There's inside outside the the correctional facility itself, and then there's inside outside the program.
+
+[6:49] And it's really you get one version of inside in the program and one version of outside with uh you know two of the two of the people, and of course, you know, chef gets to go home every night. But um anyway, super super interesting. We'll get into it. But in the meantime, while people are digesting that, uh, if you happen to be listening live, I know a lot of you aren't because it's not our normal time. Call in your questions to 917 410 1507.
+
+[7:13] That's 917 410 1507. And uh, John, if they want to become a member of the Patreon, I want to tell them what they what they get. I wish I could get them an invite to this dinner, Chef. It sounds like a pretty hard invite to get. It's a little bit.
+
+[7:26] Yeah, yeah. Uh, but go check out patreon.com/slash cooking issues. There's a bunch of different membership levels. At each membership level, you got a bunch of awesome perks. Um access to our Discord, access to interesting 3D files that Dave puts out.
+
+[7:40] Um, just a whole bunch of great things. So yeah, patreon.com slash cooking issues. If you happen to want or need 3D files of giant jaggers and anyway, uh all right, anyone got anything uh good over the week? I know you guys uh have been kind of not on your home turf, so but maybe you've eaten at some good restaurants. You can talk about anything.
+
+[7:56] Anything? Well, we had a brunch yesterday at the platform by JBF. Yeah. So that was that was pretty cool. We, you know, we screened some some clips from the film, had a nice conversation.
+
+[8:04] Then it was in partnership with Down North Pizza out of Philly. I don't know if you guys are familiar with them, but they um they it's uh they only uh their entire staff is formerly incarcerated folks. And so it's a it's kind of a social enterprise, but it's a for-profit entity, and they they train folks who've who've you know come out of prison and uh yeah, and they make some pretty amazing Detroit inspired pizza, is how they gotta couch it. I mean, I only was I only ever went to Detroit one time and I had actual Detroit pizza. I I'd say like right before it exploded nationwide.
+
+[8:36] Nationwide now, like Detroit pizza is the the thing. It is. I have the legit pans if that's helpful. It it helps. The funny thing is like we never called it Detroit style pizza.
+
+[8:46] That's a that's a that's that's a function of its exportation. You know, at home, we just called it square. You got square around, and square is the Detroit style that that kind of everyone knows now. But if you go to like a different place that also makes a square style pizza that's totally different, are you like, what? Uh what?
+
+[9:01] You know what I mean? Because it's like not the same. I mean, like, I think functionally it has some very interesting properties, like the fact that you know the sauce goes on. Right. And so like for me, like that's great because my leftovers I think are better.
+
+[9:15] You know what I mean? Because I can I can not saw I can leave some if I know I'm not gonna cook it all, I can leave some sauce off of it and then do the boom reheat sauce and par anyway, whatever. I like it. That's good. Yeah, I don't have the official cheese though.
+
+[9:26] You guys use uh brick on that, right? Wisconsin brick, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's okay. You can, you know, you uh i we don't have to be dogmatic about it.
+
+[9:34] You can expand a little bit and interpret and reinvent. But you get to be dogmatic. That's the thing. If you're from an area where something is made, you're the ones who get to be dogmatic. We have you know I'll say this.
+
+[9:44] In Detroit, there's a there's an amazing um pizza place called Amar, and they're uh Bangladeshi. So it's a Bengali-owned pizzeria that does Detroit style, but they'll put like this uh fermented fish paste on top. It's really spicy or ghost pepper. It's it's you know, so it uses like Bengali ingredients on Detroit style. And to me, that's almost like that's almost the epitome of Detroit style now, because you're taking, you know, that that style that we've known since 1946, and now you're adding on this layer of of immigration and culture and really kind of mixing it up and turning it into something even better than the originals.
+
+[10:19] Yeah, wow. Dare I say. I'll try that. Uh, you know, but people are ho real pizza aficionados, which I know many are horrified whenever they eat pizza with me, because I always put salad on top. For the past like you know, 10, 15 years, I'm like, I just want to sell it on my on my pizza, you know?
+
+[10:32] That's a good move. Yeah, yeah. We approve. Yeah, all right. You know, it's fine.
+
+[10:36] Uh all right, so you were at the James Beard Foundation. You was is uh Kate still there from uh formerly MoFed? No. All right. But uh sorry's there, Sari.
+
+[10:43] Yes, but she does the platform 57. I think most of the time. That's where we were elsewhere. Oh, right, right here. Yeah, sorry, yes, yes.
+
+[10:51] Yeah, she's good people. She's great people, yeah. Yeah, so that's good. And you are gonna do a screening at uh Mofed, right? At IFC tonight.
+
+[10:58] IFC with MoFed. Oh man, I wish I could go. I'm opening a bar now. And so like every yeah, every square second, every whatever, is uh either that or like a you know, I'm being torn every every which way. Well, you've seen the film too, so I mean you can let somebody else take your place.
+
+[11:16] Ding ding. But uh, I think any anyone should go should go to see it, and we'll we'll talk about it uh in a minute. What about you, John? Oh, I served your fantastic mustard. You guys ever been to Ghent, Belgium?
+
+[11:25] No, no. Oh my god. So, like every everyone who listens to the show knows that the best mustard in the world comes from Ghent. So John brings me like some of this like fancy mustard that no mint metal is allowed to touch ever. I'm Belgian, too.
+
+[11:39] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. So uh the guys I'm opening the bar with, uh, fabulous and Jeremiah. So Jeremiah, I'm like talking about you.
+
+[11:45] He's like, who are you talking about? Who's John? And he's like, Oh, you mean Jean? I'm like, I'm like, yo, he goes by John when he's in Belgium, then he's Jean. But here he's he calls himself John, dude.
+
+[11:56] Like, pronounce shame me. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I work with the guy. You know what I mean?
+
+[12:01] Anyways, so like I got to serve someone that mustard for the first time in their lives yesterday, and that's always a treat. It is. It is. What do they think? Oh, they loved it.
+
+[12:10] First of all, I told him this. You know how when you serve something for the first time, you tell people the story because you gotta you gotta build it up. I'm like, I'm like, lady doesn't let you go downstairs. Lady doesn't let any metal touch her mustard. Lady has a special wooden grinder, wooden and stone grinder, and a special wooden tub and a wooden ladle that's a hundred years old.
+
+[12:27] She ladles it in. Metal never touches. She gets mad at you if you don't use refrigeration. She will not ship all this like stuff. Like, oh my God.
+
+[12:34] And then I cut him a giant slice of liverwurst, put it on some bread I've just made, and then whoosh the mustard. They're sold. They want to go to Ghent now. Good. They should.
+
+[12:43] Yeah. Awesome. Is it spicy? Very sharp. Yeah.
+
+[12:46] Good. Yeah. It's uh no, no inclusion. So, like, you know, much like uh like you know, John here, he likes things that are like so. It's like, you know, a lot of the mustards that we get, they're like, well, I have to add this, or I have to add that, or this is like vinegar, salt, mustard seed, water.
+
+[13:03] Period. Yeah. It looks like looks like a thin, like looks like tahini. Oh, interesting. Okay.
+
+[13:08] So it's thin. Uh it's like runny. No, no, no, but the color. In other words, it like it has a it has a peanut buttery tahini look to it. You know what I mean?
+
+[13:16] It no big seeds, no nothing. Anyway, on point. Uh all right, so what do you got? What do you got for this weekend? Uh, I've been doing a bunch of recipe testing still, which is going really well.
+
+[13:27] The carbonade in a stuffed pasta is working really well, though. I'm realizing my Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I forgot. You're doing like you're doing like a like a like a raviolo with within the colour. Well, I was trying to be a melody, but my fingers are too fat and my skills are too unpracticed to the same thing.
+
+[13:40] And also, also, man, you're you're in a real this is not like cooking dinner for like your family. This is real life restaurant. Go big so you don't have to make as many, dude. Exactly. Come on.
+
+[13:49] So it's gonna be like a ravioli kind of situation. Hey, you know, I learned some pasta stuff from watching the documentary. How you know how many years I've been making fresh pasta? 30, maybe, right? And uh, you know, more.
+
+[14:00] I never thought to Ouroboros, you know, to have the snake eat its own tail. I never thought about it. And then I'm watching uh, you know, one of the stars of the show, Ern Ernest Davis, who was your sous chef for like, I don't know, gotta be 20 years, right? Yeah, 20 years. He's sitting there and he's got the, he's got the snake eating its tail with the I was like, that dude's sheets are perfect.
+
+[14:27] You know what I mean? I was like, oh, so stupid. All you have to do is go to prison. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[14:32] That's all it takes. You know, because like I was like, oh my so dumb. And then you can see how long it's getting. You don't need that extra hand feeding it this way because you got one hand on the on the on the paper towel roll thing as it goes bigger and bigger. And then you just one click boop boa boop, and you can keep running it through at a particular, what's it called, until it it looks right.
+
+[14:53] You know how, like, am I gonna run it through again or not? Doesn't matter because you didn't take it off the reel. And it's not like slipping and sliding. He doesn't have chewed up edges on it. The end of it's not some stupid thing that doesn't get cut right.
+
+[15:05] And then just one cut, boop, and he brings a perfect sheet over to the place where the guy's like, damn it. Damn it. Anyway. Clever. Yeah.
+
+[15:14] That's good. Do you think that needs the electric one? Or do you think you can get away with manual? It did it at the Lakeland Correctional Facility, they were using manual, I believe. I don't know.
+
+[15:25] Oh, they had it on the kitchen aid? Yeah, it was electric. Yeah, it was electric. You could do it manually because it only takes one hand. If you have two hands, you could do it one handed that way.
+
+[15:32] The I can never do it one handed because I'm always have one hand on the crank, and then I I can either guide in or I can guide out, but I can't do both. On here, you can do I bet you could do it uh. I mean, uh, it's nice to have the electric. I'm not gonna lie. But anyway, I built a I built an electric version once.
+
+[15:53] And yet still, after all that time, didn't think about no, I I built a KitchenAid wants too much money for their electric attachments. Too much money. Uh, you know, like for from Atlas, you can buy a pasta maker for like almost nothing on Facebook, they're free. People are like throwing them on the sidewalk, and then uh, you know, KitchenAid wants like, I don't know, like 150 or something like that. It's ridiculous.
+
+[16:13] So I have 3D printed an attachment for it. But now I'm not kitchen aid anymore. And I fear some big company, some big like food conglomerate also just came out and said we can't recommend KitchenAid anymore. Because they lost their way. You know what I mean?
+
+[16:28] Like they they the bowls don't fit up anymore. You have to lift the bowls up into the into the dang thing. They make a met they shoot stuff everywhere because the soft start isn't as soft start as it needs to be. There's like they're just like they need to, they need to go back and use their products more. You know what I mean?
+
+[16:44] We've all been using them for our whole lives. Our parents have been using them for their whole lives. And so they're like, we have America on lock. We don't need to do anything. You know what I mean?
+
+[16:52] We'll just make it bigger. So they make giant ones. They'll make they make a Kitchen Aid now. It's like halfway to a Hobart, but like, you know, it's the fit and fit. Oh, whatever, man.
+
+[17:01] That's why like I moved to I moved, I moved Swedish. First I moved German, then I moved Swedish. Now I'm Swedish. But I have to say, I love the Ankar Some. I'm still trying to figure out how to make brioche in that thing.
+
+[17:12] You know what I mean? KitchenAid still does a better job on brioche. So no one's perfect. No one and nothing is perfect. I'll tell you what I did this week.
+
+[17:22] Uh so I make I've been making a lot of flour tortillas, but I ran out of my favorite wheat, which is uh uh white Sonoran, Sonora White, which is like the wheat that like flour tortillas, like you know, Sonoran wheat that it came out of. And it's got very high protein, so it's got good bite. Uh and when you grind it, whole wheat, it has very, very, very high water absorption. So you can put a lot of water into the dough and still roll it out and not have it stick. And so that means that when you roll it out, it can puff a lot because you can make a very high hydration dough and boom, you can puff it.
+
+[17:51] And so I was doing it not comal style. I was doing it more chapati style. So griddle, griddle, fire, boom, pillows, right? And like beautiful pillows. And when you make a pillow, when when you're when your tortillas or whatever, your flatbreads, whatever you want to call them, when they puff up like a pillow on the flame, you're just like you like love it.
+
+[18:08] You know what I mean? Because it means it's gonna be delicious, delicious. And Sonoran White is the best tasting wheat anyway, for that. But Durham has the same stuff. I have a bunch of Durham around.
+
+[18:18] I ain't grinding wheat for pasta because no thanks. Anyway, so like I had all this durum. I was like, Durham's extraordinarily high protein, hard wheat, but doesn't have a lot of um, it's not as snapback when you when you're rolling it. And it made fantastic uh got up to 80% hydration, could still roll it out whole wheat. That's what I do this week.
+
+[18:36] What do you what are you filling those tortillas with? I like whatever people have. So like I have a combination of like yesterday I had like 20 people over, and uh we had a combination vegetarian, not vegetarian. So I I make like a standard like kind of pork chili like pasilla, ancho guajillo mix, you know, uh pressure cook that down with uh my trick is I blend the skin in. So I I pressure cook the skin along with the stuff.
+
+[19:00] Then when I I pull the pork out to sh to shred it up, I take the leftovers and boom, blend the skin in so that when it gets cold, it's like a ping pong ball. Boom, boom, but it's like, you know, very and then uh I also do a bean, a chili bean thing, and then like you know, that that's what people like. That's what they want at my house. Yeah, yeah. I want it right now.
+
+[19:19] Yeah. Um, all right, Quinn, you got anything before we go on to the documentary? Uh I got not I didn't do too much this week. We did some um deep frilling over the weekend. Oh, yeah.
+
+[19:33] I did like a uh sort of Scottish style chip shop dinner. So we did uh beer battered haggis and then halibut, and I did play around with that um stabilized vinegar idea that we talked about. But you want you want it soupy. You want it you don't want it like spreadable, you want it soupy. I like I want syrupy.
+
+[19:59] Okay, how'd it work out? Good. Again, I I overdid it at first, and it was actually probably what you would have wanted, and then I just eyeballed a little bit of vinegar. I posted Hold up. It's not what I want.
+
+[20:15] I don't want it to be made spreadable with the stuff you were using, man. I want it to be made spreadable as a fluid gel, not spread. I'm talking about okay. I think it was the texture you would have gone for. Okay, like hair gel slash snot.
+
+[20:28] Yeah. That's not what I'm going for. I'm not going for hair gel snot. But you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, all right.
+
+[20:34] All right. And then I had a little vinegar, got it to where I liked it, and it worked out pretty good. So I I need to do a second pass to see if I can like nail down the ratios first thing. You didn't fry Mars bars, no fried Mars bars. Not really Scottish then.
+
+[20:51] We did fr we actually did fried Kit Kat yesterday. We were gonna do the dinner and dessert all at once, but you know, we we sort of ran out of steam. Yeah, you what you need to do is buy that Belgian fryer like I told you to, that is 3,000 watts. And then take the two to 220, get someone to run 220 from the laundry room into where you are, so you can fry the way that you're intended to fry. That's what I'm doing.
+
+[21:13] By the way, people, just so you know, I haven't had time because I got the book, I got the bar, I got all this, but I got the two heating elements in, and I'm gonna convert my countertop fryer to be three thousand watts so I can fry like just like any basic idiot European person can fry with more power. Uh anyway. Uh how uh okay briefly tell me about your haggis. Oats, did you get lungs? Can you buy lungs there?
+
+[21:35] We we we bought the haggis. Oh come on, man. So I don't I don't know. They came in the can. It was decent.
+
+[21:47] All right, listen. Can you buy lungs in uh in uh what's it called in Canada? Is it legal over there? Uh I forget. I feel like maybe they are.
+
+[21:56] I don't remember if we have the same well, if I ever chu like you took the cave. I think it lists all the all the different pieces. In your family, do you make uh what my family calls uh sofrito, which is lungs and heart chopped up? No. I don't think we've ever made that.
+
+[22:13] So maybe you're not allowed to have lung, because I feel that's one of the things that like a lot of cause your family's southern Italian, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like one of the things that like I know cause my my father my stepfather's father and you know, before him, eight billion generations butchers, and uh that's one of the things that they only could sneak growing up because he still slaughtered his own like animals back in the day. Uh, but it was totally illegal to sell lungs. So that's one of the kind of culinary traditions that uh in the US has died out among that kind of subset of Italians just because it's not legal to buy, you know.
+
+[22:47] I really have a few memories of my grandparents breaking down full animals. Maybe they did that when my dad was growing up, but I'll have to ask him. Hmm. All right. Now, let's get to cold water kitchen.
+
+[23:03] So actually, going to uh Italian foods, one of the stars of the of the movie, and the one that I still don't know what happened to, because as of the time that you had written the or you know, produced the the movie, uh, he's still incarcerated and he had left the program. I don't know whether we should talk about this first or later, because it's kind of like a lot of complicated issues within his story that I think point to a lot of things that I found uh interesting. But uh you did a full-on Italian uh dinner with uh Bradley Leonard, who is you know at least part uh Sicilian American and an ex uh line cook, you know, uh, you know, in New York, in Detroit, all over dude uh gets um, you know, goes to goes to prison, uh, you know, did bad stuff, goes to prison. And then what's interesting is Chef, you have to normally be in for at least five years to apply to your program, right? Yeah, so it depends on on the crime that you have committed.
+
+[24:03] Uh if it's a violent crime, you know, that they kind of make you walk it down until you're assumed safe or but uh yes about five. Yeah, and so you know, I think uh he was only his his minimum was like seven, and he he didn't feel like he had the the the time, but because he had the uh skills, you let him come in as uh instructor, as a tutor, I guess is the term. Yeah, he couldn't get into the uh the class portion, but I thought, you know, uh I can make him a tutor because I watched him and you know, he was nice on the line. You know, he had great skills and and you know, he knew a way around the kitchen. So I thought I'm gonna I'm gonna make him a tutor because I was always telling my other guys about how much speed you need when you're on that line.
+
+[24:55] You just can't stand one one spot. You need to be mobile. And so I brought Brad in to show them. And uh it just it just worked. Yeah, I mean, it looked like he was I mean, it looked like he was thriving there.
+
+[25:10] Um I mean that I guess, you know, like as usual, I'm all over the place and backwards and forwards at the same time. So we'll start here. Like uh, so he, you know, he had, or you know, I guess you don't kick having the the issue, right? He he's uh was an as an addict, and then that caused him to, you know, he has an addictive personality. And in his opinion, so he says in the in the film, the cooking itself became part of the addiction.
+
+[25:37] Going to the class, uh or teaching the class, like being on that line, was feeding himself in that same way. And he was using it almost as a drug, the ability to to do that. And uh is that something that was a can unique unique to him, or is that something that you have to deal with all the time? You're providing something that's kind of so much outside the general like daily life of the other uh people who are incarcerated there. Um what's that?
+
+[26:09] What what did you feel when you saw it when you saw that when you saw his response to what was going on inside? Well, I thought that, you know, he needed uh to be in that that comfort zone because that's what he was used to in terms of of the working in the kitchen. And so we tried to keep him uh really motivated, try to keep him in terms of teaching uh the students about the the use of the herbs, because we have an herb garden outside and we have all these different herbs, and so we would go out and have tastings. And so he would take out four or five guys in a group and pick a piece of uh maybe chive and explain about the chive and the family that is is a part of, and then also the blossom. And a lot of a lot of the guys didn't know that you could eat that blossom.
+
+[27:00] And so once they taste it, it it was, you know, so had that onion flavor. And uh they they really did look up at Brad because he knew a lot about uh, you know, just various items in in the food world. So he he needed to be there because that kept him his level of of comfort was was better there. Yeah, and for those of you that haven't seen it, which is mostly you got you gotta go see it, like they're not cooking trash food, like you know, like they're cooking like good food. You know what I mean?
+
+[27:37] Like I'm talking not just good food, like food that like a lot of Americans haven't cooked, period. Like they're doing rabbits, they're doing whole rabbits, you know, uh like stewing them down, they're like showing them how to uh cook shock, break down lobsters. They're showing like, you know, all sorts of like because the goal, right, isn't to just teach someone how to cook, it's that they can have a job in like a good restaurant. So that you need, in other words, like and and it intimates, doesn't go too deep into it on this, but it intimates that some people are like, well, why do you need to spend this kind of money on these on these folks with all this good food? And you know, a lot of people can't afford this kind of good food.
+
+[28:14] And I think, you know, you make a very, I think, clear point that like, you know, w what are we what are we supposed to do? You can't I can't teach them how to I can't teach them how to be a restaurant cook with trash. You know what I mean? It's not uh I always thought that they would need they need to know more than hamburgers and french fries. So that's why I chose the high end items, you know, so we would they'd have uh access to it and be able to feel it and and work with it and and it changed their mindset about you know different uh say wild game items.
+
+[28:51] A lot of them had never had rabbit before. Uh and they had this picture in their mind of eating bugs bunny, and it was nothing like that. Because rabbit is is really it's it's really good. And so once we start, you know, using it and preparing it, it just everything clicked. And so they want to do more.
+
+[29:10] And they always want to do more because now they're into the food. And you know, they're they're becoming a foodie right in front of us. And so they just want to just know more, no more. And it's it's really like a sponge. They they absorb so much on purpose because they they're trying to make a point that you know, society said, I'm I'm supposed to be here, but I'm telling you, when I get up out of here, I I'm gonna show them what it was that that I you know learned.
+
+[29:39] Well, and speaking of, so I mean, I guess then you've been this is your I don't know where they said on error beforehand, but this is your 39th year running the running this program. This November will be. Right. So you're not uh this isn't something that you just tested out yesterday and you don't know whether it whether it works or not. Yes, sir.
+
+[29:56] Yeah. And uh I looked at the the numbers, and the uh the recidivism rate in your program is not only uh three and a half times lower than the recidivism rate for the pre that correctional facility in general, but like even much, much lower than Michigan in general. You're at like six percent, which is crazy. Crazy. Uh I mean, crazy good numbers.
+
+[30:22] So that's gotta be gratifying. And like what like other than just you being able to run that program, what is it about cooking you think that helps that? Or is it by the way, I'll load this as a front so you feel free to talk a long time with the answer because one of the other issues, I felt like I was like uh my mom had this same problem. No one wants you to retire. And all of anything it says, oh, he's gonna retire soon.
+
+[30:43] He's been doing it for 39 years. No one wants you to retire because no one thinks that someone can fill that hole. My mom is the same way, right? She had a you know, it's we're all replaceable because we all die, the world goes on, right? But some people fill a niche that's harder to to immediately fill it, fill than others.
+
+[31:00] So you gotta you gotta feel that. So how much of it's cooking, how much do you think you can pass on to the next person and go for it? I'm not I won't be able to pass on to the next person because it's a civil service job. And so it is a it's an interview process. And so I won't be on that interview panel because I will be gone.
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+[31:23] And uh so it's up to someone else. That's so dumb. Look at it and go, okay, I think this guy could could fill that slot. Uh so I don't know. So that's so rough.
+
+[31:33] That's so anti-cooking. You know what I mean? It's like it's anti, because you're clearly very cooking, hospitality-minded, you know, family-minded, uh, which is I think all like a I think most really good cooks are in some way or another. You know what I mean? And uh it just seems a bizarre way to come up with the person who's gonna fill the shoes, right?
+
+[31:54] No, it's very bureaucratic. I mean, it is the Michigan Department of Corrections at the end of the day. I mean, Chef, I know that you're employed by the by them, so you can't say anything one way or the other. But here's another one that maybe you can comment on, Chef. Maybe you can't.
+
+[32:07] One of the main things I learned in this film, and they mention it m several times. John, I I know you watched the film yet? Yeah. I I think most people will be shocked by this. So I'll give you an example.
+
+[32:19] Ernest Davis, the person who was uh Chef Hill's uh sous chef for 20 years, and you know, like you see him, he's like working. He's the guy that taught me that I could uh, you know, snake eating its own tail, the uh the uh pasta sheet, uh, you know. He gets out, he gets sent to he gets sent in when he's seven, well I guess he's 18. He's the crime was when he was 17 years old. He's a minor.
+
+[32:47] He's sentenced to prison to for life without parole. It finally gets overturned because of course that's crazy to send a minor to life without parole. It's uh felony murder rap that his uncle did, but he was with it when it happened, blah, blah, blah. Whatever. Uh, but you know, looks like not only a great cook, right?
+
+[33:06] Looks like a really good kitchen presence. Now, from an outside perspective, I'm watching, you know, I'm watching him helping other people in the kitchen. Just looks like a genuine delight to have in the kitchen. Is that true, Chef, or no? Yeah, he's uh he's full of character.
+
+[33:18] Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, needling needling you on the side, but not in a disrespectful way. You know, yeah. Right. Yeah.
+
+[33:25] And uh so he um, you know, they he he gets paroled finally, right? They overturn the life without without without parole. And then but he's now he's on probation. And here's what I had no idea. I had no idea of the I mean, I know the barriers in general that you have to check off that you've been in prison before, all the all those stupid barriers.
+
+[33:46] But get this. You so Chef Hill is not allowed to have contact with any of the people once they get out until they're quote unquote off paper, until they're not on probation anymore. He is not allowed by the state of Michigan to have any contact with these folks whatsoever. So he goes from being their lifeline to like he has to drop off the face of the earth. And to me, that's bonkers.
+
+[34:15] But but but but bonkers, bonkers. And then you have it like uh it's other things that you might not think about, right? When someone's on, if you want to work in a restaurant, you're around liquor pretty much, period. Unless you're at one of these, like, you know, there's you know, some restaurants that have no liquor and they have no liquor license, whatever, but like the majority of fine dining places, there's there's liquor involved. So you see um, you know, the one of the other stars in in the show, uh um uh Dink Dawson, right?
+
+[34:40] When when he gets out, it's probation officers like, well, you can't go to bars and you can't be around. He's like, uh I'm a chef. And like, it's like well come on, you know what I mean? And uh I just I guess didn't have a sense. I'm too sheltered from it.
+
+[34:55] I didn't have a sense of all of the barriers that are thrown in the way of people just trying to get out and uh oh, get this. This is not for nothing, but so uh Ernest, when he leaves, somehow the state has decided he has a three thousand dollar debt or two thousand. It's the cost of the tether, essentially. So he has a he has to wear a tether when he's on parole and he has to pay for the cost of the tether, which costs two thousand dollars. Like he asked for it.
+
+[35:14] Right. Um, so you know, and chef, I know maybe you can't comment on this kind of stuff, but is there any move to change some of these? Well, that's that's certainly part of our impact campaign. It's what it's one of the reasons that we sort of highlighted it in the film so much because it is one of those things that seems like a simple, you know, you can make some there there can be a gray area for people like Chef where, you know, if he's been a mentor to somebody, he should be able to mentor them once they're out, you know. And part of this is it's the rule is called overfamiliarity.
+
+[35:49] And it's written very broadly, basically to prevent um, you know, people who are outside or are not incarcerated, but are interfacing with with the prisoner population um to prevent them from developing a deeper relationship that then could turn into something nefarious, or they could, you know, that's kind of how they how they couch it. Um so even when we were filming, um Brian Kaufman and I, my co-director and I, we were, you know, we we kind of went through casting, we interviewed everybody in the program, we got our four guys, and then we became um, you know, we we were communicating with them uh through JPEG, which is kind of like a text message sort of email um that that the incarcerated have access to. And but because we were going into the prison monthly on a regular basis, we were considered vendors, and so we couldn't have contact, you know, we we basically got our hands slapped for that because we were, you know, keeping contact with the folks that we were gonna see next month anyway, and we're just trying to get more of their story from, but that was that was against their overfamiliarity rule. So, you know, that's what we're really trying to make. I'm glad that you brought it up and that it resonated so much because I think that we can put a little bit of pressure on the MDOC to at least, you know, put a little asterisk next to that for cases like Jimmy's where where contact could be very helpful to these folks as they reenter society.
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+[37:05] I mean, I'm sure it's the same for everything. I'm sure it's the same for everything everywhere, but I know mainly cooks and bar people. And we're it's we're a mentor-driven profession. You know what I mean? Um, so you know, it's gotta hurt.
+
+[37:21] I mean, and they know it's not your fault, Chef, obviously. They know that you can't do anything about it, but still it's gotta freaking hurt on both sides. You know what I mean? Um Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[37:31] That um Ernest had a four-year tail. That means he had four years once he got out before he could, you know, have access. And uh, so it was a long time. Um, but you know, we do what we're supposed to do uh to make sure that nobody gets violated, him and or me. Yeah.
+
+[37:55] So uh it just you you know, you wait you wait the time out and then you pick up. Right. I mean, it seems like n some people are somewhat compassionate. Like uh Dink Dawson said that like a friend of his called who was inside and you know, really needed some support. And so he's like, I gave the guy support because he needed some help that day, and somehow my probation officer didn't find out about it, but thank goodness they didn't violate me.
+
+[38:18] Yeah, you know what I mean? But well, this is a common rule. This isn't just in Michigan. Yesterday on the on the panel, um, the founder of Down North was talking about how a lot of his guys are are on probation when they're working. And technically they're all in violation of this overfamiliarity rule because you're not supposed to have any contact with anybody else that is, you know, in the system.
+
+[38:38] Which is just bananas. Right. Yeah. I mean, it's nuts. You know, and first of all, like I mean, it just seems strange that somehow I mean, uh, whatever.
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+[38:47] Again, just naivete, not not knowing a lot about the way that the system works, but the fact that you're held somehow to an incredibly higher standard than the average person for, you know, while you're trying to get a job and get back on your feet just seems counter counterproductive. The whole recidivism thing, um, you know, and again, I I I hate to keep quoting him, but but the founder of Down North yesterday was talking about how recidivism actually benefits the state. You know, there are these these prisons that operate and they make revenue based on bodies, and there's there are cells to fill. And so, you know, even though they can talk about lowering recidivism rates and rehabilitation, at the end of the day, they need bodies in these facilities. And so, you know, those barriers are erected um to ensure that those bodies do come back.
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+[39:33] Brutal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[39:34] I mean, it is. It's a brutal system. That's that's all I can say about that. So uh talking about some of these uh people. Where's Ernest cooking today?
+
+[39:42] He just got a job. He's in Benton Harbor. So actually Ernest is with us here. He's in he's somewhere roaming Manhattan right now. Yeah, nice.
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+[39:49] Um he got a job. He's he's kind of bounced around restaurant jobs in Benton Harbor, but he's working at uh at like a bar and grill in his hometown of of Benton Harbor, and he's been there for about a month now. He didn't he didn't get that place that he was uh looking at that was for rent? Not that one. He did try to open one, you know, a few months back, and but you the cost of that is not exorbitant.
+
+[40:09] So believe me. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I mean, I think especially in the program too, you know, somebody in his state where he's been locked up for 35 years, you know, you make a lot of uh plans and and some of them maybe, you know, once you get out, the reality sets in, and then you realize, oh, there's th this is gonna take a lot more work than than I had anticipated. It's not like you you're gonna get out on Monday and open a restaurant on Friday.
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+[40:29] Right. Well, interesting though, what like was I I mean, hopefully it's still got I checked that it's still still going is uh the uh Green Mile uh grill. Oh yeah. Uh started as what was started as tr trap kitchen and he got sued by someone in uh in uh threatened threatened with a lawsuit out of California. Well he had a really good attitude about it.
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+[40:46] He's like, I don't care, I'll use a different name anyway. Anyways, but uh so he gets a job at uh a good place, and he's actually pretty politically nice, right? In in the in the in the dock. Uh feels like he's uh accused of stealing something at the restaurant and feels like they could go to his probate officer and use it as a lever against him. Exactly.
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+[41:07] And so then has to quit. I'm sure this happens a lot. Well, that's the vulnerability, right? It's like if if somebody, if you get out and then you know, you're working with somebody that you don't get along with, all it takes for them is to accuse you of something for the parole officer to get involved, and then all of a sudden you're on trial again. You know, and so that that ev even just that status makes you so vulnerable in these in these spaces where you're interacting with all kinds of different people who may have, you know, different uh different motives of their own.
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+[41:34] Yeah, but then so he was then able to open his own place with his daughter. His daughter is his uh his Sioux chef, or I guess they're partners now, I don't know. But uh if I ever get to go back to Detroit, I'll check it out. Yeah, you'll have to. Yeah.
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+[41:47] Uh all right. So what's up for you guys? Uh what's up, you guys next in terms of trying to get how hard is it to get distribution for some for something like this? Well, it's tough, you know, unless you're, you know, you're uh making a film about a celebrity. Um right now the distribution the document it's one of the hardest times right now to get that distribution for documentary.
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+[42:08] Um I think the year that that our film uh debuted at Doc NYC here in uh 2022, that year, Sundance, there are only like four films that were bought out of Sundance. You know, there's a lot of uh CNN closed down their documentary department. So there's just a lot l fewer avenues despite this whole streaming boom that which is kind of coming to an end. The gold rush is over. And so um on the one hand, it's been a struggle to find distribution.
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+[42:31] We are still actively working for distribution. On the other hand, it's forced us to sort of pivot and take matters into our own hands. And so we're really focusing on this impact campaign. So this is really the first stop of our of our impact campaign. We've got some funding from uh the Michigan Justice Fund, uh always looking for more funds.
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+[42:48] But essentially we're gonna be taking the film um and doing these kind of dinner and a movie events in 12 different cities all around the country. Um the next one is in Lansing because there's a big a big political convening and we want to get this in front of legislators as well, so that you know they can understand these issues in a way that that maybe they didn't before because it, you know, hopefully it humanizes them and makes you aware of things that, you know, as you said, you didn't even know because you weren't thinking about them. Right, but who but who makes these policies? Like in other words, is is this just administrative policy or is this a legislative policy? That's a good question.
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+[43:22] Legislator? Yeah, okay. So it is legislative. Uh so then it's gonna be like molasses. Yeah.
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+[43:28] Yeah. Yeah, you know, the wheels of justice crack slow and all that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But so anyway, so we're taking the film on the road across America.
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+[43:36] And uh, we also got word that the film was selected by the American Film Showcase. And what that means is that next year it's actually uh it's part of the US State Department's one-on-one diplomacy efforts. So next year we will be taking the film all over the world to embassies all around the world that want to basically have discussions around the themes that that the film brings up. So, you know, e even though it's not widely available yet, you know, to stream on on Hulu or whatever, we we hope it that's where it's gonna end up, but we have a very long tail. Specifically there, is that why you mentioned it?
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+[44:08] No, no, no, no. I mean, any any streamer is fine. Hey, PBS, HPO, hi. Yeah. Well, I I it's I guess it's like you're right, it's so weird.
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+[44:15] Like uh, I don't really understand the economics of it. Like you you've already made the film. You know what I mean? Yeah. The world is a weird place.
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+[44:24] Well, and uh, you know, the thing that we've been able to see though is the way that the audience responds to this. So, you know, uh on the flip side, it's nice that that it wasn't just picked up by Netflix and then streamed and then forgotten the next week. We've actually been able to take this um and and take it to places all around the country, you know, in front of audiences who respond in person, um, oftentimes by folks who've been affected by the by the carceral system or people who have the power to change it, you know, and uh and that's been kind of more heartening. As a filmmaker, one of my favorite things is sitting in a theater full of people who've never seen the film before and just experience their emotional response to the film through osmosis. You know, that's like that's that's the whole that's the whole gig right there is is seeing it on the big screen with an audience.
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+[45:08] And so we've been able to do that over and over and over again. And if this if this tour lasts, you know, longer at the expense of wider distribution, I'm perfectly happy with that. Hey Chef, who's mining the kitchen while you're here in New York? Uh no one. Yeah, they uh you know it it's a class that uh is run by me.
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+[45:28] And so when I'm not there, you know, they there's no class that day, or in this case, you know, two or three days. Uh but uh, you know, they, you know, they look forward to uh to class time because I mean not only does it bring them back to class to where it's more of a comfort, you know, it's like being in prison away from prison. That's how I set it up. So you could come in and you know have a clear thought pattern, you know, and and things are going on outside on the on the on the yard. Uh but it's hard to really think clearly out there.
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+[46:07] So when you come to class, you know, the the setting is like, you know, warm colors and you know, in the morning we play like, you know, worship music and in the afternoon it's jazz. So you get a chance to clear their head, do what they're supposed to do bookwork wise, but also try to think about those problems that that are going on outside of the fence at home that they can't put their hands on, but they can have a clear path to think, you know, some things out and then call home and say, hey, well, you know, we you should probably do this or make sure that you know she doesn't do this. And so that's how it's set up. So they look forward to to those class days. Can you talk a little bit because I know like I say before, like uh there's kind of multiple insides and outsides in the in the in the documentary it's alluded to a lot that uh sometimes people in the program take flack once they get, you know, outside of the of the program into the kind of the, you know, wherever their their cell is or whether the general population is w like what is the what are the main pressures that they're feeling when they leave the classroom and go back at the end of the day.
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+[47:19] Food. Everybody wants to be in that class and or get something out of the class. And food is a it's a moneymaker. You know, so there's always some type of pressure on somebody that's in the class to say, hey, you know, why don't you bring me uh some of those eggs? Or, you know, I heard y'all having chicken next week.
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+[47:43] So, you know, let me get, you know, two or three pieces of chicken, and you know, they'll try to flip that two or three pieces of chicken into four or five bags of instant coffee or whatever the going rate is out there on on the yard. So that's the pressure part for the for the students. Some cave in, a lot of them don't, because they know that they could mess it up for the rest of the class. I mean, uh, it's it seems like it's like a higher stakes version of what happens in a regular restaurant. People skim, people steal, people, you know, eat, they take stuff that they shouldn't get fired or whatever.
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+[48:21] But uh, I don't know, it's just I mean the stakes seem so much like there's I mean, uh are spoilers okay a little bit. It's not a spoiler, but uh, you know, somebody steals somebody steals one of the pieces of silverware, you know, not silverware, they're plastic or whatever. But like, you know, steals one, and you know, they end up doing something bad with it. Not terrible, but like, you know, they you know, turn it into a weapon fundamentally. And uh, you know, you have this convert you have this like several conversations about it.
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+[48:48] Uh, you know, I think the sec I don't know whether the second conversation about someone stealing from you is the same conversation or not, but it's um yeah, I just felt higher stakes then because I've had these conversations with people at the bar, people at the restaurant, but it just seems so much more hardcore because I feel like at any minute someone could be like, No, we can't do this anymore. You know what I mean? It is high. I mean, that's prison for you, though. It's like it's it's life or death sometimes, you know.
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+[49:14] And and as Brad so pointedly says at the beginning of the film, food is money in prison. And so, you know, when you have money, you're walking around the yard, or access to that money, you become a target. Yeah, he's an interesting character, right? He's like uh I have he's like, I have no gang affiliations. Which hurts him.
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+[49:32] Yeah. He's uh, you know, he's compelling. Sometimes he's honest, but he tells you he's a liar. You know what I mean? It's uh He's also a quote machine.
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+[49:42] I mean, we had to unfortunately leave a lot of his best not not best, I think we we we kept some of the best quotes, but you know, he's just so cogent in in his sort of thinking and the way that he can kind of be incisive and and sum things up in metaphor. I mean, he's he's kind of poetic in a way. Um and that's why, you know, when when we sat the process of the film, we sat everybody in the classroom. So it was 50 students at the time when we got in there, everybody in the classroom down one by one and did it, you know, one on one interviews with them to sort of cast for our main characters. And with Brad, it was instant.
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+[50:15] It was just, you know, he kind of started talking, and then I I think most of those most of what he said in that first interview actually made it into the film because he was just so so pointed and and honest, but then you also knew that he wasn't being fully honest, but also that could be because of his situation, obviously. You know, when you're dealing with incarcerated folks, there's a lot of things that they can't say because it you know, and he's still incarcerated. And so he's eligible this year though, right? Well, Brad's journey has been a little rough since he's left Coldwater. Um he's been bounced around from from facility to facility.
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+[50:51] He's been attacked pretty brutally a number of times. He's survived those attacks, thankfully. Um and he was eligible for parole in February, this past February. And uh the parole board hearing went great. Um, but unfortunately he was tossed from so you have to take a class.
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+[51:10] Um if you have if you're if your crime or your offense has something to do with drugs or alcohol, you have to take this class. Um, and it's basically like a uh an alcohol and substance abuse and trauma treatment class. Um and uh Brad was tossed from that class twice now. And so I you know ideally you would take that class early because if you're struggling with addiction, you need to learn these things while you're in prison. Right.
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+[51:37] But the way that plus you need to take the class, you need to take a class, get it out of the way. But they only allow you to take the class within your last six months of incarceration. And so he struggled with that class. I mean, part of it too is that it's a group trauma class where you have to be very open and candid about your traumas. And uh unfortunately for Brad, a lot of his um harassers are a part of that group.
+
+[52:01] And so, you know, so then he can't fully participate, and that that causes all kinds of issues for him. And so no safe spot. Exactly. And so um, you know, we actually just went and visited him and saw him uh at the last facility he was at, and this was just a month ago. Uh, and he, you know, he had a light at the end of the tunnel, he had that February date, and now he feels like there is no light.
+
+[52:23] What do they what is it once a year? What is it? Yeah, the parole board is once a year, but it's not even the the parole board isn't the issue, it's he has to finish this class. Right. Um but his sentence could be quite long, right?
+
+[52:33] Wasn't it like seven to thirty or something crazy? Yeah, the maximum is thirty. So he's past his minimum now. February would have been his minimum. Um and you know, the the sad thing is he just he just really needs help not punishment.
+
+[52:45] You know he's he's not he's not a danger to society. He's not a dangerous individual. He just struggles very deeply with addiction and uh and he wants not you know all he wants to do is overcome it. But as he says in the film like throwing an addict into a a a a system like prison is like throwing a a rabbit into a wolves den, you know, expecting him to be able to to run faster and uh it just doesn't work. And so he's really he's really struggled and um yeah we're we're hoping that that things turn around for him.
+
+[53:16] Yeah. I won't uh his his scenes there's a big big dramatic arc in this I won't go into those. You have to watch the movie to see but but um one of the funny scenes I will say though is uh so they're doing you have two main big uh out meals that outsiders are allowed to go to right the yeah so the one you decide to allow uh Brad to Bradley to do uh Italian yeah and he's testing out the the dishes and so you know he does this like you know they totally clean clean squid body stuffed like you know the toothpick pan and he's coming out and he's doing the plate and he has this sauce that he like brushes around the the plate and chef's like I don't like it and you know what Chef I totally agree with you. You're like I look at this this looks like dirt. I was like dirty it looked dirty looked like dirt that I I did not like that plating either he ended up with like a a variation on it with just one line like one line, but not like if the other one looked like you rimmed the plate in filth.
+
+[54:19] Yeah. And that was the that was the give and take. You know, I was like, you know what, man, I just, you know, this plate looks dirty to me. And he said, Well, I like it. I said, Well, you know what?
+
+[54:30] That's that's that's your child. And you know, hard head fred. He just he just he had to have it his way. So we we came to a happy medium to where, okay, I'll let you do one brush stroke uh from one side of the plate to the other. And so that's what we came up with.
+
+[54:48] So funny. Yeah, because like the other thing I think is uh is interesting, and I don't know, maybe you can talk about it. Everyone knows, you know, who's worked in a in a in a kitchen that they only work because there's a hierarchy, right? But the question is like, how do you how do you run that that hierarchy? And you know, you're dealing with uh, you know, you're dealing with all these people, have all these other pressures on them when they when they lead your class, but you seem to be able to do it, you seem to get a lot of respect out of the people without having to go ballistic on them.
+
+[55:19] I mean, there's always the threat that we could all be shut down at any minute and like you know, all of those things, but how hard is it to ride the line with like a bunch of people that are in such a rough like emotional place, you know like at any minute, like violent, they they could be a victim of violence, there all these things could happen to them, and yet you're treating them in a way that they have to respect you, but clearly there's respect back, which I don't know if they're getting outside of your class. It it is uh, you know, respect uh plays a big part on on all of us, you know, because they have to respect their classmates and and everybody, you know, they want to make sure that you know that you've got six numbers on your back, just like I do, so you don't tell me what to do if it's a student against another student. Uh but I try to push the fact that, you know, hey, everybody in here needs to get along. I'm not saying that you gotta go outside of class when it's over and break bread with each other, but in here, we're gonna be about the business of food service, and we're gonna get along because this is the spot where you can come and be able to do that to get along without no pressures. And so a lot of them, you know, they accept that.
+
+[56:42] Yes, a few. Every now and then you get some bone heads, you know, but but that's that's in every job code. Uh so they for the most part, they all get along uh between that. I've got them for three and a half hours uh per day. The the tutors are there all day, so they're there, you know, from from eight to to four thirty.
+
+[57:06] That's a really good job to get. Yeah, yeah. So and the tutors, they make sure that, you know, these guys follow, you know, protocol and and everything. And uh because no one wants to get it messed up for everybody else. Yeah, Jimmy's created a sanctuary in a in a chaotic and violent place, and and uh and I think that people the folks that are in the program respect that and and know that you know if if they messed it up, then that sanctuary is gone and then they have no no sanctuary to go to.
+
+[57:38] Yeah, uh that means we have that means we have we have two minutes left. Um man, yeah, so uh in case I forget to say it again, the documentary is Coldwater Kitchen and hopefully soon streaming at a place near you. Uh where are you le where are you gonna have uh street s uh screenings after New York City? Uh so Lansing comes, Lansing, Michigan comes next. We're gonna be in LA in the fall.
+
+[57:59] I think there's some other things happening that we're still kind of figuring out the details, but I know we'll be in LA in October for sure. And where should they go? Uh where should they go to find more? I know your curly handshake on the uh on the Instagram. What about you, Chef?
+
+[58:12] What's your Instagram? You have you do that? At Jimmy Lee Tebow Hill. No, at Jimmy Lee T Bowl. At Jimmy Lee Tebow on Instagram?
+
+[58:20] Coldwater Kitchen Documentary is the uh Instagram handle, and then the website is Coldwater Kitchen.film. You can go there, sign up for the newsletter and stay updated on all the latest. And by the way, we have another connection. Uh one of your uh producers is uh Desiree uh Vincent Levy, who's uh the board of Mofad. You know, uh Museum of Food and Drink, where you guys are doing your thing uh or with whom you're doing your thing tonight.
+
+[58:41] So we're super excited to uh have you on. One thing, how much time do I have left? 51 seconds? So another thing I thought was interesting, and I I usually end on something stupid, so I don't know why I'm ending on something emotional, but like I thought one of the roughest moments is when Chef, you're like, I have to come here and kind of be this mentor to all of you when in reality a lot of times I am miserable. I am beat down.
+
+[59:07] And so like like that moment when like it's like this like weight, you know, and like I just think like anyone who runs a kitchen, there's a lot of weight on them. But for you, I mean it's like three, four times that weight. It's gotta be bananas to do it for 39 years. So what are you what are you thinking? How how much more how much more can you take?
+
+[59:27] You know, I I think I got uh I think I got a couple more in me. Yeah. Yeah, but it's just uh anyway, I was thinking of that uh what's that song? Anyway, the the the idea to have to go to do that, and there's like uh there's a bunch of them, there's a bunch of moments like that. I think everyone should go see the film.
+
+[59:44] I'm not gonna give you all of the not gonna give you everything because if if I gave you everything, you wouldn't have to go see it. But anyway, folks, thanks so much for coming on. Thanks for having us. Uh it's been a pleasure. Uh I someday I want to get an invite to come out to that one of those dinners.
+
+[59:59] Yeah. All right, cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave, our older host of Cooking Issues coming to you, London Art of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City, New S fan Studios. Joined as usual with John right in front of me. How are you doing, John? Doing great thanks.
+
+[0:21] Yeah? Yeah. Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels. Hey, hey, hey. Good to see everyone after two weeks.
+
+[0:25] Yeah, yeah. We do, well, last week was BCB. We could talk about that. We do not have Jackie Molecules. He isn't on an aerial plane, but apparently he's going to try to be on the Discord for those of you that are on the Discord.
+
+[0:35] But in the upper left, we got Quinn. How you doing? Hey, I'm good. Good, good. And in the great state of Connecticut, Small State Best State, we have Anastasia the Hammer Lopez.
+
+[0:46] How you doing? I'm good. Yeah, yeah. Although, like everyone says, like, like uh small state best state, but like it's not the smallest state. It's not even the second smallest state.
+
+[0:56] So, like, why rep on the small? You know? I mean, it is very small. Yeah, I guess. Uh, all right.
+
+[1:07] So, uh, what do you guys, what do you guys got? Uh what do you guys got going? What's going on? Not used to me starting so early on asking you guys what's going on. I mean, we had two weeks to figure out.
+
+[1:18] I'll start for you. Last week we weren't here because I had uh the Bar Convent Brooklyn, which is a goofy name for a thing, but I think they want it to be a lot like the BCB, which is the initials of the Berlin one. So they call it Bar Convent Brooklyn, which is not how you would construct any English phrase ever at any time. It's like the goofiest thing ever. So on the Tuesday, which is why I couldn't uh be here.
+
+[1:41] I was chilling with the house alpens folks. House Alpans, for those of you that don't know, make one of my favorite uh things, Cap Course, which is you know about 17%. Uh alcohol made with must instead of with fermented grapes, so it's real juicy and then fortified with uh grape spirit and quinine. It's delightful. And then uh they also make burr, another one of my or it's actually pronounced beer, it but it's also unspellable, so it doesn't matter.
+
+[2:08] It's in a red bottle with like a cork on it. Also delicious, but that one is like partially fermented grapes, partially must. Plus they make dolan and coke, which is I met the guy that makes koki, Roberto Bava. I'm like, yo, when are you gonna get us over when are you gonna get us over to uh to Turin there? When we're gonna go to Torino and hang out.
+
+[2:26] Never been to Pimanti. That's what's way I talked to him. I didn't though. I mean, it wouldn't have mattered because he probably thinks all American accents are terrible, but you know what I mean? Anyway.
+
+[2:34] Uh so anyway, so I was doing that. I was making carbonated cap course and uh signing books, and then the next day with uh Garrett Richard, who's been on the show uh several times. Yep. Twice. Twice at least, yeah.
+
+[2:45] Yeah. For his book, uh oh my god. The actual name of his book, uh uh Tropical Standard went out of my head and I was only thinking of Tropic Thunder of the movie. All I can think of is Tropic Uh Thunder of the Movie, and spoiler alert, seeing Coogan, you know, Coogan, uh, what's his name? The actor Coogan?
+
+[3:01] Coogan? Yeah, seeing his head on a bayonet. Which is to me, it doesn't sound funny, but when you watch it, it's super funny. I saw that once on an airplane, and uh like I feel like the flight attendant almost like had to land the plane. I was laughing so hard.
+
+[3:14] You know what I mean? Like anyways, uh yeah, yeah. So we were talking about maximizing, maximizing citrus. So, yeah, cordials and and whatnot, talking about, you know, super juice and all of that stuff. Um it was fun.
+
+[3:34] It was good, I think. I don't know. Yeah. So that's what I did in terms of BCB. That's why I was not here last week.
+
+[3:40] Now, have any of you thought of anything you've done over the past week? Because I can go on. I mean, I've been doing a lot of uh sorbet work and other strawberry stuff. I did make the uh key acid adjusted custard thing. Yeah, using using the Quinn calculator.
+
+[4:01] Yes, and I I used your uh technique from compare academy to try and measure the original acidity. Oh, yeah. So for those of you that don't know, like uh what Quinn's talking about here uh is by the way, if you want to see Quinn's calculators, and Quinn there's nothing Quinn loves more than well, two things he loves making a frozen dessert and making a calculator, but you have to join the Patreon for that. Uh, you know, John, you want to tell him about this? Go to Patreon.com slash cooking issues and uh check out a couple of different membership levels.
+
+[4:37] You get great things at each level, uh, and all of them get access to our Discord um to cool things they've and team, you know, and Quinn, I guess post on the Patreon um discounts with some people that we work with, like Edward Poe coming in next week from Edwards Arts or Edwards Aged Meats. Which you should buy his hamburger. His hamburger is the best hamburger. Yeah, they're very good. His hamburger is the best hamburger.
+
+[4:58] Yeah, yeah. Anyway, yeah. Uh or like, for instance, we had uh two weeks ago, I guess, uh the uh cold water kitchen documentary, the you know, the Chef Hill, the star and the director. And you know, even though they don't have distribution yet, our Patreon people could watch it. You know what I mean?
+
+[5:13] So yeah. So anyway, join up. Uh so uh the technique Quinn is talking about about measuring acidity, is that most of us don't have a uh a pH. Well, people have a pH meter, but they're garbage. Most of the pH meters that people have are trash.
+
+[5:30] And here's the other thing people do they buy a pH meter, like the $20 ones on Amazon, and they're like, I'm gonna use it, and then I'm gonna put it in my drawer for a year, and then I'm gonna try to use it again. And then you're like, oh, and you don't even bother trying to recalibrate it. You're like, oh my god, uh that pH seems totally wrong. It's because it is, those things are trash. And then as soon as they dry out, the uh the the probe is toast, you know what I mean.
+
+[5:55] And most of them, a lot of them don't have replaceable probes. If the probe's not kept wet with the right solution, it's garbage. Anyway, so my point being that like you know, it's hard, and then even with that, if you're going to be measuring um pH, you need I mean, sorry, uh acidity, you're not trying to measure pH, you have to do a titration on it. And doing a titration with a garbage pH meter, impossible. And then even uh you can use, and I did this, I went and bought some phenolphthalene, and I which is an indicator that changes, you know, it goes from uh colorless to purple.
+
+[6:28] And it's actually super fun. Like using phenolphthalene is super fun because when you're doing a titration, so titration is when you when you try to figure out how much acid or basis in something by adding the opposite. So if you're trying to find how much acid, you add a strong base like uh lye, like concentrated lye. And you add it like uh a bunch at once and then drop by drop, and what happens is is that there's a very sharp like uh knee in the in the pH curve. So it'll be acidic, acidic, acidic, acidic, acidic, acidic, acidic, acidic, like like a pretty shallow slope of the acidity reducing acidic, acidic, acidic.
+
+[7:04] WHAMO through zero, you know, through pH seven, which is you know, you know, neutral, and then rock it's way up, and then basic, basic, basic, basic, basic, like, like, you know, pretty shallow slope again. So like this this S curve. And uh when you're really near that S, it looks kind of amazing because you'll drop uh a one drop of uh base in, and you'll get this like flash Gordon 70s purple cloud just going and like goes all through the liquid, and then you swirl it and it disappears like Ming the Merciless has vaporized you, and then you just keep doing it, and then all of a sudden one drop will make it stay purple. It's awesome. Here's the problem.
+
+[7:46] Most of the things we need to test ain't clear, and it's really hard to see what's going on in a liquid when you can't see through it, right? So, like the first time I was like, I'm gonna do all my tests with phenolphthalein, and then someone's like, How much acidity is in this red wine? I was like, wow. You know what I mean? So the the technique I use instead is uh you get the the most accurate scale you can, right?
+
+[8:10] So again, I have like 500 uh gram by the milligram, which is excessive, but most people can now get like at least 200 grams by the milligram pretty cheaply. And you uh you weigh you know a small amount of the sample, and you have to weigh everything. You weigh the the container, you weigh the you and you get excess baking soda, excess. When I say excess, I mean like too much, right? And then you weigh everything, and then uh you weigh the the liquid that you're testing very accurately, then you weigh the entire rig very accurately, then you add the baking soda and you cover it and you stir it and you come back tomorrow.
+
+[8:48] You swirl it around a couple times, come back tomorrow, reweigh the whole thing, and you can calculate from how much gas has left, how much CO2 has left what the acidity was to within, you know, tenth of a percent or so, depending on your equipment. But it's a pain in the butt. And you know what else, Quinn? It's like you don't need to be that accurate. When you're taking something that's only one percent acidity, I did these calculations, they're in the you know, upcoming section of the of the book.
+
+[9:11] But when you when you actually do the calculations, like when something is only one percent acidity, and you're gonna add like 5% to take it up to lemon or lime, uh, you can be wildly inaccurate on like a percentage basis. The difference between it being 1.2% acidity and 0.8% acidity once you adjust it up is within the variability of lemons or limes themselves. So accuracy is not that important, but it's fun to do. Yeah? Well, it wasn't one for my dad.
+
+[9:41] He was very confused. What about why you're doing all these weird steps? Yeah. You're like, no, don't throw away that stirring stick. Oh, Jesus, oh Jesus, everything's ruined like that.
+
+[9:51] Well, no, the problem is I prepared succinct acid solution separately for actually making the you know, strawberry acid. And then I immediately did the acidity test. And he kept thinking the acidic solution was involved with the test. Yeah, and like, oh, that's completely separate. Different, different problems.
+
+[10:16] Yeah, different problems. Oh, speaking of seasonic, uh, I noticed that Monitors Pantry is out of stock uh on the six cynic. I'll tell you folks why, even though I probably shouldn't, even though I'm probably contractually obliged not to tell you, I will tell you anyway. Their original supplier um stopped carrying it, and they had got it. So, what I'm trying to say, it's my fault.
+
+[10:34] And so they gave me a sample, and I have tested it at the new bar, uh, you know, such as it is. Uh, and it seems fine, but I want to run a couple more tests at my house with old versus new before I'm like, yes. I mean, it tastes awful, but like like secinic acid should. But I I haven't had a chance to do a side by side with my sixcinic acid versus the new one to see whether anyone can tell the difference. Although, I mean, it's good enough.
+
+[11:00] I should just tell them to sell it, right? Should I just tell them to sell it again? Probably. Probably. If it's even close and the alternative is nothing, probably.
+
+[11:09] Yeah. Also, again, talking about inaccuracy, given that you're adding 0.5 mils of an 8% solution into the juice. Like, what about it? I'm saying if if if the flavor is slightly different, you notice it at those levels. Well, I mean, the whole point is that you notice it at those levels, otherwise I wouldn't add it, right?
+
+[11:32] I know, but I'm saying the difference between the difference between the two versions of successic acid. Yeah, I mean, and it's its taste threshold is much lower because you're not using it for acidity, right? So it's not like, you know, Ariel's freaking thing where it was um, you know, one one drop or ten drops in a in an Olympic-sized swimming pool of Giosmin would have been a better ratio than what I use, where like, you know, my mouth tasted like dirt for a day and a half. But speaking of uh Nastasi and I saw Ariel last week, we went to go see uh Captain Greasy, Nick Coleman. Yeah, who was playing bass for Action Bronson, correct?
+
+[12:11] Yep. Yeah. At the the Poisson Rouge. And here's what he said. See what you guys think.
+
+[12:16] Patreon folks, here's what he said. He said uh it he was a little discombobulated after the show, right? Because he, you know, he played a long show and he was, you know, you know, it's loud. Oh, is he is he there? Are you is he with you?
+
+[12:28] Or are you just playing random? Oh, Joe Joe Hazen's got random Mansuri in the background. I love it. Uh David Carradine. From uh what, from uh Kung Fu.
+
+[12:37] Kung Fu. Yeah, yeah. Is he the one that's dead? Is he the dead keratine? Oh.
+
+[12:42] Anyway, uh, so Nick has some uh South uh Southern Hemisphere oils that are gonna come in fresh. I think he said in July, right, Nastasia? Yeah. Yeah. So here's what we want to do.
+
+[12:57] Here's what we want to do. And I think he agreed, but you know, post-concert, right? But I think he agreed. We went to this place that Nastasia wanted me to use the bathroom, by the way, because there's a secret. Oh no, no, no, no, no.
+
+[13:11] I'm not gonna say what it is, but there's a secret place where they don't have a bathroom, but they send you through a different performance space to use the bathroom, and you get to see the performance. Not only do you get to see the performance, but you have to walk in front of the audience and potentially, you know, run into some problems. So, Stas, that's safe. Right, I didn't say what it was. I didn't say what it was.
+
+[13:32] Anyway, so uh what I want to do is I want to uh get Nick as soon as those oil samples come in to have the Patreon folks be able to buy it from him, and then he comes on and talks about that oil, like a cooking issues, like little sample of like fresh, because I was like, get me a real throat ripper. I want some throat rippers. You know what I mean? Do you guys like throat ripping oil or are you like mellow oil? Yeah, both.
+
+[13:58] Probably more on the mellow side. Really? Really? Like for bread? Like, like if you're just gonna eat that sucker on bread, you want mellow.
+
+[14:05] Huh. It really does take different strokes, I guess, to go the world. I want I want to feel like someone's hitting me in the head. You know what I mean? I want my throat ripped out.
+
+[14:14] But that's also, I guess, why I like seltzer. I like punishingly carbonate seltzer. Like I mean, like when like licking the blade of a lawnmower, kind of like throat ripping. Oh, mmm. I've never tried that because uh we had so much poison ivy, and I was I ran over so many bees and snakes and stuff that like you know, I never licked the blade of my lawner, but someday I'm gonna try that.
+
+[14:35] Yeah. That's a terroir. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you uh, if I ever have a lawn again, I'm gonna get one of them uh robot lawnmowers. You seen these?
+
+[14:44] Yeah, I have sick. It's like a room before. Yeah, but what's nuts about it is it like it now your lawn gets like golf course, you know, because it's like mode micro mode every day. You know what I mean? Yeah, I know, yeah.
+
+[14:59] The blade goes one way, the other way, yeah. I'm just curious, have you seen the lawn? Uh there's a thing on on on Instagram about looking at the uh the field for real Madrid soccer field. It's pretty epic on what exactly they do. There's two or three fields that live on top of each other, and there's robots that bring it up and down based on the season and the fresh uh seedling seedings they do in the field.
+
+[15:22] Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. It's like a New York City car park where it's like exactly that is messed up. It's amazing. That is some crazy business. Oh man.
+
+[15:34] Turns out uh, you know, Cindy Lauper was right. Money changes everything. She was here last week. What? Yep.
+
+[15:41] What? Yep. Oh my god. Pretty awesome. Oh, is she cool?
+
+[15:47] I bet she was cool. Super cool. I met her like uh maybe a year ago. She came by the studio. She walked by the studio.
+
+[15:53] She saw me in the studio by myself, and she put her finger out, looked at me like, what is going on? And then she walked away, and then all of a sudden last week she was here. Oh my god. And we talked about that moment she saw me. It was pretty Oh, it's so sick.
+
+[16:08] Oh, Cindy Lauper. But now you've totally erased my head. What were we talking about? Well, originally we were talking about the acid test. Yeah, but then we then we moved on to uh the Coleman, right?
+
+[16:24] Yeah, okay. But okay, back to that. So you got more? You got more coin? What do you got?
+
+[16:28] I mean, I made I've been doing some interesting surveys. I think there's a certain balance of clarified juice and like a regular fruit puree that is good for strawberries. So I'm sort of you know finding that balance. Well, and do you have anything to report? Or is this just a progress report?
+
+[16:52] Okay, right. Okay, I need to do one more iteration. I think I'm gonna just split the difference into equal amount juice and curee. I mean, you saw the um the color of my last one, right? That was yeah, that was red.
+
+[17:07] Yeah, you know what's red. This drink, I'm this the drink I'm gonna have at the bar is some red. Oh my god. I need someone else to cost it because I do not want to know what that thing costs. Oh I mean, that's the problem about making something for yourself versus like trying to put it on the menu, like, oh, that's so good.
+
+[17:24] The cost. You know what I mean? How red? Like red velvet red? Oh, like red.
+
+[17:31] Like sanguine blood. Uh considering that it's orjaw-based, so like you would think it wouldn't be that red. You'd think it would get kind of blonded out. Like uh, it's red. Because it's a raspberry orjah and raspberry juice.
+
+[17:44] So raspberry on raspberry juice. Raspberry organa. So it was like what? Like is there still another nut in there or no? Yeah, almonds.
+
+[17:58] Almond and rosemary juice, basically. Wow. That's true. I I cheated. A lot of sugar.
+
+[18:03] Anyway. Uh well, you know, it comes I want it to be roughly fifty bricks when it's done, like everything else. Oh, speaking of which, uh I don't I thought I was gonna write it down and I thought I had written it down, but uh one of the things I mentioned on the um you know, Quinn can put it in one of his calculators. So uh for those of you that are working with juices, right? One of the great things about clarified juices, another reason to get yourself a spincil, by the way.
+
+[18:29] Bing bing. Uh one of the great things about clarified juices is that you can reduce them tremendously without them burning, right? So uh, you know, it's very, very hard to reduce uh an unclarified juice, especially one that's pulpy or a puree, down without, you know, it tasting nasty, to be honest, right? So um unsweetened cranberry juice is obviously a a miracle, right? It's amazing because you know, now they didn't add a bunch of sugar and water, it's just cranberry juice.
+
+[19:02] Cranberry juice is highly acidic, like uh on the order of two percent acidity, right? So more than twice what uh uh the average uh you know fruit thing is. It could be higher, two points. Like I have it somewhere. So what I did was I took the unsweetened cranberry juice, just the Trader Joe's, you know, nonsense, and I boiled it down, and I'm gonna want to say that I took uh um a hundred, a thousand mils down to like two fifty or something like that.
+
+[19:29] Like boiled it way down, and then uh added the I did all the calculations, you know, because it's me, and added sugar to it and got a 50 bricks, no fifty 50 bricks cranberry uh cordial, right? That's just concentrated cranberry, so it's 50 bricks and 6% acid with no acid added, and it's got that cranberry acidity to it, you know what I mean? But because cranberry is already a flavor that we're only really consuming cooked 99.9% of the time, and it doesn't scorch, so it doesn't taste overcooked. So it's a way to add a huge amount of cranberry in a little bit of a little bit of space. And it's shell stable and it pours nicely.
+
+[20:15] So yeah, I'll get you guys the uh what's it called? I'll get you guys the uh the numbers. Basically, you have to basically what what you what you have to do is is you have to calculate what volume of that cranberry juice will when once reduced will make uh six uh will make six percent acid, right? Then you have to calculate how much sugar is already in that volume, right? Then you figure out how much the volume will increase based on the sugar you add, and then reduce it that much more so that when you add the sugar, the volume gets back.
+
+[20:48] Does that make sense? Ish? Ish, yeah. Ishy-ish-ish-ish. Uh all right.
+
+[20:54] Uh oh, also this week, my 29th wedding anniversary. Yeah, yeah. Yesterday. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[21:01] Congratulations. Yeah. Twenty-nine years, hoping to get one more at least. You know what I mean? Don't know how Jen does it.
+
+[21:05] Yeah. No, it's great. Uh nobody seems to know how Jen does it. So uh, you know, so what did I make? I made uh so on our honeymoon, I've said this before on the show, so I won't go too far into it, but on our honeymoon, uh we went to Rome and then North, right?
+
+[21:20] And so, you know, we were looking in the guidebooks at the time, and they're like, What do you, you know, what should you get when you go to Rome? And it wasn't car trophy season when we went, it's right now. We went right now, obviously, because it's our wedding anniversary. We were in Rome right now. Uh, but um uh salting boca alla romana, right, which is the veal cutlet with the with the sage and the prosciutto.
+
+[21:42] And in 1995, this was like, you know, this was the height of of gastronomy. You know what I'm saying? And it was breaking the bank, right? So we were I was glad when we left Rome and we weren't spending as much money. But uh so I don't we don't make it with, we didn't have the money when I got home to make it with veal, so we would always make it with chicken, right?
+
+[22:01] So like I do it so like for 29 years I've been making chicken salt and boca or chicken boca as we call it. So I did that yesterday with the meat glue. So I did uh so I used to hate sticking the toothpicks in through the prosciutto to keep it on. So you put the sage down, then the prosciutto, that's the way I do it, to keep the sage on. But I always hate flipping it because when you flip it, the prosciutto moves around unless it's really set onto it.
+
+[22:23] So I just salt, sugar, pound the bee Jesus out of it. I do the envelope cut. You know the envelope cut? Or the you know, the envelope, the the the trifold paper cut where you put the you put the the chicken breast down, it's shaped like a triangle. You take a cut in on the fattest side, whoop, fold it over, take a cut on the other side, open it up like like you're folding a letter for those of you that have ever actually mailed a letter, you young freak shoes.
+
+[22:46] And then you put plastic wrap over it. Well, then you salt and and uh salt, pepper, a little bit of sugar on both sides, plastic wrap. Real flat, sage, prosciutto, sage, well, meat glue, sage, prosciutto. Put it in a ziploc, suck the air out without inhaling. You shouldn't inhale meat glue.
+
+[23:07] Did I mention this? Like meat glue is like pretty safe, but don't go inhaling it because you don't want to glue together your lungs. You know what I mean? Like you only got the one set of lungs. You don't want to glue together your alveoli.
+
+[23:19] Don't huff the meat glue. Anyway, so uh, but they were too big to fit after I pounded them. They were too big to fit in my vacuum machine. That's how nice they were. Yeah.
+
+[23:28] And then uh instead of using the classic stuff to deglaze, I deglazed with Harvey's Bristol Cream, the 70s cake juice of of dreams. And uh it was good. Yeah, mashed potatoes. Yeah. Anyway, so uh now that I've gone all this stuff.
+
+[23:43] Quinn, what do you have besides Sorbet? Anything besides sorbet? Any savories? I did the custard. Oh, yeah, we did some nice uh spot runs.
+
+[23:53] There it's the end of the season here. So we get uh crudeau, we get a stir fry with some tomato. Yeah, that was pretty good. So I know Quinn does not listen to uh the three six mafia. However, uh yes, but one of my favorite all-time songs is sipping on Sessurp, right?
+
+[24:17] And like one of the greatest lines in all of hip-hop is uh I keep the dop fiends higher than the good year blimp. I eat so many shrimp, I got iodine poisoning, right? So it's a fantastic line. Like shrimp and blimp as a rhyme, iodine poisoning. It doesn't really get much better than that.
+
+[24:38] Uh I mean, I can hear it in my head right now as we're because it's so good. And so, like everyone I, you know, work with knows that, you know, if they're the kind of person that we can like sing stupid like rap lyrics to because Nastasia won't won't tolerate that. So I don't do it with Nastasia, right? But like, you know, at the bar with my cousins. The problem is that uh shrimp doesn't actually have that much iodine.
+
+[25:02] So if you look up on the internet, people have calculated how much shrimp you would need to eat to get iodine poisoning. And it's a preposterous amount, something like 45 pounds of shrimp to get like legitimately iodine poisoned, right? Now, this got me thinking. Uh back to remember when the Secret Life of Groceries guy was on and he brought up something that like really blew my blew my mind where he was like, remember how shrimp used to be a luxury and it's not anymore? I was like, you know what I mean?
+
+[25:31] Like, like, I was like, that just like I think about every once in a while, I think about and I'm like, shrimp, holy crap. You know what I mean? Anyway, so like, here's the thing though. All the shrimp that we get now, the reason why shrimp, you know, even though it did drive red lobster out of business, right? Even though even cheap shrimp, Red Lobster could not sustain the treep cheap shrimp onslaught, but the shrimp we get now is not the same shrimp we used to eat in the 70s, right?
+
+[25:58] It's all farm raised in fresh water, right? So I think that the 36 Mafia is using Gulf brown shrimp and gulf brown shrimp, wild caught gulf brown shrimp, right? That is very much higher in iodine than the farm shrimp that we get. So what I didn't realize is not only was the uh was the 36 Mafia making fun of my uh funny Geneva watch with the Ferrari kit, not only was I embarrassing on that, but I was embarrassing them with my farm shrimp. I need to get that Gulf Brown to get the sweet iodine.
+
+[26:34] You know what I mean? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[26:39] Uh sorry, Quinn. Yeah. Just you know, I don't even know how I got on that. Did you mention shrimp? Probably.
+
+[26:47] Prawns, spot prongs. Yeah. So is it all the the all you can eat shrimp that drove lobster red lobster out of business? That's the theory, but I mean, it's probably just it's one of those things like parts of shrimp or something. Like look, here's the thing, right?
+
+[26:59] Like, you have a business. What happened really is that the red lobster got uh marauded by uh an like an I Bank hedge fund group that bought it, extracted a crap ton of profits when the profits were high, and like stripped it of its value and left it dying and and uh in the dust. That's really what happened. However, you know, they're probably looking for an excuse when things flag, and so they're like, oh, we took a you know, 20 million dollar hit on shrimp. So we're gonna close all of our stores.
+
+[27:28] Okay. You know what I mean? Like that's uh that that's my that's what I heard anyway. I'm not an expert in red lobster analia, other than one thing I do know about Red Lobster, they know how to cook the hell out of a piece of fish. They know how to take a piece of fish and just beat the snot out of it, cook it so hard, but then they put so much butter on it that somehow you're like, okay.
+
+[27:48] Any of you guys Red Lobster folks growing up? Long time ago. Like mid 90s. Yeah, but it would you that wasn't like a special occasion. Red Lobster was a special occasion place for us, though.
+
+[28:02] Still no. No, no, no. But says the says the person who used to get super fresh catch stuff from the like fish place that no one in your family can name, but you can all drive to right on the water. Well, that's California. Like, that's like, why would you go to like the prices there compared to what the prices are at that fish place?
+
+[28:24] Yeah, but why do people come into New York City and go to Olive Garden instead of Temperance? They're stupid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh I had something more on uh on uh red lobster closing. Nah, maybe it'll come to me.
+
+[28:40] Probably it won't. Probably it won't. It's okay, couldn't have been that important. Well, that's what my mom used. My mom used to say that is that uh uh you know if it was important you it won't come back to you.
+
+[28:51] Yeah, the opposite of what most people say is like you're gonna forget the important stuff. You know what I mean? Um anyway, all right. Well, you know, maybe maybe it'll maybe it'll come back to me. I feel it was something that our crew would want to know, though.
+
+[29:02] Oh well. Wasn't about shrimp, and it wasn't technically about red lobster. Was it about people closing down? I don't know. Who knows?
+
+[29:12] Hey, Doc Molotov writes in, I recently inherited about 500 kilograms. I want you guys to re-mentally hear these words. 500 kilograms. That is a lot. That is over, that is over half of a US ton exactly half of a metric ton.
+
+[29:34] That is a lot. Uh yeah. Of whole wheat from my grandma's food storage. So in other words, Doc Molotov has a lot of wheat to go through. You know what I mean?
+
+[29:47] Uh, okay. Uh for context, she was born in 1930 and is Mormon. So the Mormon thing just to let you know that she has a lot of stuff in her basement in case the world ends. Do you think people who prep for the world ending get mad when it doesn't and they're on their deathbed, or were they like, I was prepared. I kind of hope they get a little better.
+
+[30:11] Then their children will be prepared. No, but no, but like if you're a good Mormon, your kids also have that store of stuff in the basement. So it's like, you know what I mean? It's like I'm just wondering. Well, I don't think Dr.
+
+[30:22] Molotov had a similar stockpile of wheat before he inherited it. Well, I'm not saying that his grandma was proud of him or her. You know what I mean? Them. Anyway, my point is uh, yeah, I think I would be a little disappointed.
+
+[30:39] It's like someone who spends their entire life learning how to do something and then never get to do it. You know what I mean? Gotta be disappointing. Oh, the world didn't end. Anyway, uh the wheat was stored in fresh metal uh with the free the wheat was stored in metal trash cans, uh, and dry ice was placed in the bottom.
+
+[30:56] I presume to displace oxygen and kill pests. Uh that would work, you know. Uh the problem is you need to kill everything. Once you kill everything in wheat storage, kill it all. Then it it as long as it can't nothing can re enter, nothing will grow, right?
+
+[31:14] So displacing oxygen will also prevent rancidity in situations where things can go rancid, but wheat can be stored, you know, not that way, and it'd be fine as long as you can prevent any sort of weevil infiltration. Um, uh the wheat is older than I am. The dates I can see on the bags are 1976. Some of it is hard red and some of it's soft white. Two of my favorites.
+
+[31:39] Two of my favorite varieties. I love soft white. So, although I have been using Sonorin recently. Anyway, uh both grown in Utah. My questions are in whole wheat, what can go bad?
+
+[31:50] Uh I've eaten some, the hard red, as cracked wheat porridge. Man, it tastes like wheat and didn't kill me, but are the nutrients still there? I mean, are the mean yes, right? Yes. I don't know if it's I mean, like I'm sure some stuff is bro broken down, but it's not like you're looking to get vitamin C or something that's like you know very fugitive out of it.
+
+[32:10] I mean, it's still got the brand, it's still gonna run through ya. You know what I mean? It's still gonna still gonna keep that motor running. Uh for making bread, let's consider the tartine country loaf. What might I need to augment to make it work well?
+
+[32:23] Well, more on that in a second. And I'd be interested in a recommendation for a grain mill as well. I have a Bosch Universal Mixer, good mixer, by the way. I enjoy the Bosch. I'm now an anchor or something, man, but I do enjoy the Bosch.
+
+[32:34] Someone else came up to me the other day and was like, I'm done with Kitchen Aid. I'm like, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Uh is the mill Kitchen Aid could come back if they cared about us again. If they made the bowl fit, if they made the the paddle get anywhere near the bowl.
+
+[32:51] Yeah. If it wasn't just that it was expected that you would have to jam the bowl up into the mixer to make it work, I'd be like, you care about me again. It's not just the fact that they make one that can that can, you know, mix a Volkswagen now. They have these huge ones that are like halfway to a whole bart. Like that wasn't the problem.
+
+[33:09] You know what I mean? Yeah. Anyway. Get better. KitchenAid.
+
+[33:15] Sons of good. Do better, yeah. Do better. You know? Seriously, though.
+
+[33:20] Yeah. I can't even whip two egg whites in mine, and it infuriates me. Yeah. And the bigger they are, the worse they are at doing like a couple of a couple of small things. It's preposterous.
+
+[33:35] And it's like, here's what I hate. They're like, everyone says this, even otherwise very smart people. Well, you know you can adjust the height of the bowl. Not enough. Don't you think of anyone you know, I would have adjusted the bowl height as high as they can go of anyone you know.
+
+[33:51] Mr. Void the Warranty. Don't you think I would fix it if I could? And so then everyone's like, well, you can get washers at the hardware store and stick them over the pins. Yeah, then the bowl flies off.
+
+[34:01] Like there is not a good solution to this. Other than do better. Anyway. Let's get back to this 500 kilograms of fungus. Oh, that's good.
+
+[34:13] Uh does anyone take that on purpose? So it's not a good, it's not a good loony. I don't think it's a good eye. No. No.
+
+[34:21] All right. Uh I'd be interested in a recommendation for a gray mill. I have the Bosch. Is the mill attachment worth it, or is it best to get a standalone unit? I don't know.
+
+[34:30] There are people that make mill units. Uh like Quinn has the mock mill for the kitchen aid, and I think that they also make one that will attach to the Bosch. I mean they they have standalone as well. What do you mean? Who does?
+
+[34:47] Yeah, I know. But the one you have is the one that goes on the kitchen aid. Like the the the Como and the mock mill are all made by a guy named Mock, and they're all the same exact design, basically. So they either of them will work equivalently well. I like I would get the bigger the to 200, but like I have the Como Mio, and it's great.
+
+[35:08] Also, if you want to stay, Doc, if you want to stay Mormon, look up on eBay Mormon Mill. And you can get what used to be called a Mormon mill, and mine was from Arizona. And other than being very loud, it's pretty damn good. So like the Mormon mills can be had quite cheaply, and then you're keeping it all in the all in the zone. But you're gonna need a sifter for it.
+
+[35:31] Uh I wouldn't I mean the Bosch is a good unit, but uh I would I would get a standalone because if my memory serves me, the Bosch needs to be turned sideways to get to do this. And who the hell I think, but who wants to turn their crab sideways? Oh, actually, no, they have that takeoff unit on the top on the Bosch. Anyway, just get a standalone unit. It's gonna be like five dollars more.
+
+[35:52] And if you're actually gonna make bread, you're gonna want the standalone unit. Now for the bad news. Uh in no less a journal than science, the premiere, right? Science along with nature, one of the premier magazines for scientific research in the world, science, in the 25th of June in uh in the year 1926. So before the clash uh crash in the salad days, there's an article, milling and baking qualities of old wheat.
+
+[36:22] Uh a farmer living near Junction City, Kansas, presented in August 1925 to the Kansas State Agricultural College a sample of wheat, which he knew to be at least 25 years old. The wheat was dark red and the kernels were plumped, well preserved, and there was no evidence of weevil. Uh so equally well stored with your grandma's. The wheat uh the test weight as received was fifty-five point eight, and I don't really remember what, but basically they're saying the test weights, all that stuff was relatively similar to fresh, right? The test weight as received was fifty-five point eight, and after passing the cleaning and separator, it was fifty-six point three.
+
+[36:55] A germination test uh made in the seed testing laboratory showed no signs of life, so it was dead. So something clearly has changed, right? A milling test gave a normal amount of flour, but the ash content was higher. So again, something is happening. Ash meaning you know, stuff other than uh endosperm and um and you know the stuff that they normally count for.
+
+[37:14] The amount of moisture and protein in both the wheat and the flour compared well with the average generally obtained from normal Kansas hard wheat, but the baking test produced a loaf of small volume, heavy texture, and poor color. The bread was very similar to that made from wheat, which has been injured by heating in the stack or bin, or when germination has proceeded too far. The gluten wash from the floor, uh flour was also similar to that obtained when wheat has been uh so injured or damaged as mentioned. Dr. C.O.
+
+[37:44] Swanson, Department of Milling Industry, Kansas State Agricultural College. So, well, here's what I would do. I'm not saying to throw out your 500 kilograms of wheat, but when you get a mill, and I highly recommend you do, get some fresh wheat. You know what I mean? And then run some tests with the fresh wheat.
+
+[38:02] Uh, I would especially try to uh sift out some more of the bran on this, assuming that part of that's like what's gonna give you some a lot heavier, um heavier texture. And then just run some side by sides and then you know, mix a little in because uh here's what doesn't need good gluten pancakes, right? And I don't know how it's a lot of pancakes, right? So, like, you know, on average, you know, even when Dax was living at home instead of you know selling vapes in Alaska like he is this summer. We, we you know, I would really only use about uh 500 grams of uh flour for pancakes a week, right?
+
+[38:40] Two rounds of pancakes, 250 grams a w uh around, 500 grams. So you're looking at uh a thousand weeks to get rid of get rid of your 500 uh kilograms. Um but also uh especially a soft or mixture might be good in biscuits. So something that you can use it for that isn't going to need the gluten structure and test those side by side. But you're gonna have to make a lot, or like maybe integrale, like like biscuits.
+
+[39:10] Something that doesn't need the gluten to work and see, but it sounds like it's gonna be safe and fine, just not the best. Was that an okay answer to I cover and smother that? Yeah. All right. Andrew H.
+
+[39:23] I'm trying to use uh some over roasted beans. I have making uh copy to rec, which is the I don't know how to pronounce it, but it's that, you know, the coffee with the I think sweetened condensed milk, and you and you you you I think I think they roast it with sugar almost like a torrify torrefaction and fat, the beans, but they're like hard roasted and they they go from on high and they get the foamy, the foamy Megilla. You know what I'm talking about? Back and forth, back and forth. Um I only have an aeropress, so I make normal coffee, overextract it a bit to give it an edge, and add sweet and condensed milk, and I want to get a stable froth on it, so I pour it from cup to cup, which is super difficult.
+
+[39:57] The issue is the froth quickly dissipates within seconds. I need some way to increase the stability of the froth, and just adding more milk doesn't seem to do the trick. Well, you know, you know, Andrew, there's always Xanthan. You know what I'm saying? A little bit of Xanthan.
+
+[40:13] Uh you know, a lot of people now, uh, you know, Mike Capaferi at Thunderbolt, he uses uh, I think it's called magic foam from uh from uh Monet's Pantry. And what that is, it's a mixture of maltodextrin, which is a bulking agent that like all also it's a separating agent. So you're not adding enough maltodextrin in this case to actually use it as a bulking agent. But it can be used. I used to use maltodextrin when I was whipping fruit pureees that didn't have high solids.
+
+[40:39] I would dope it with a crap ton of maltodextrin so that there would be enough solids in it for viscosity to get buildup off of it when I'm making the foam, but you're not gonna add enough of that. It's basically just to keep it separated so that it hydrates instantly. Xanthan and Methylcel F50. Now, methylcel F50 is gonna have a little bit of a problem hydrating in milk, so I would prehydrate if you're gonna use it, I would prehydrate it in water and then uh you know a little bit and then make like a césurip with it and add that uh you know to put in. But you could use that or just straight xanthan, and that will stabilize it such that the bubbles that do form don't die so quickly.
+
+[41:14] That means then Quinn, you're you you like this kind of problem. Do you have any suggestions for that one? Yeah, yeah, I was gonna suggest similar thing, make uh prehydrated F50. Then you have another um F50-based semi-frater in the works. So we'll see if that works.
+
+[41:30] Yeah, by the way, when you add a foaming agent, this is something I I realized I hadn't talked about a lot about before, but in frozen confections. So uh I was rereading uh to me, it's always R Buckle to Ma. But the original ice cream book by R Buckle, like, because how would you change the name? R Buckle is so thick, it's such a good name, R Buckle. You know what I mean?
+
+[41:53] And it was the ice cream book because it was the only one available for a billion years. Anyway, Goth. We should have got I don't know if he's a uh nice guy or or uh or a or a dingus, but like I've read his work from the University of how do you pronounce Guelph? You think guelf? Gelph?
+
+[42:08] Yeah, I think so. Guelph. I've been reading his crap for two decades now, and maybe it'd be fun to have him on. I mean, I don't know. Again, he's the so his name is now on the ice cream book, him and some other person whose name I forget.
+
+[42:23] So one thing that, you know, uh I was thinking about a lot is everybody knows in ice cream that the the h more air you whip into the ice cream, the slower it melts, because air is an insulator, right? So it prevents ice cream from melting. So a lower quality, usually a lot of lower quality ice creams are overstabilized. It's considered a fault, by the way, for something to not melt in general, because when people like scoop some ice cream and then they walk away for two hours and come back, they think it's unnatural if it hasn't melt, it hasn't fully collapsed, right? So meltdown, you don't want it too high, but you also don't want it too low.
+
+[42:59] So they do all these tests where they make these little hockey pucks of ice cream, put them on a screen with a a weight uh uh balance underneath, and they test how long it takes to, you know, like minute by minute, how much melts down through the screen, and these are the meltability tests. And the more air you whip into something, uh the better insulated it is, and so the longer it takes for it to melt. And so what I was thinking is is that a lot of people now not only add Xanthan to their frozen drinks, but also a little bit of a foaming agent. And when you do that, you're slowing the meltdown of your frozen drinks as well. So they're getting churned and air is going into them, and you're gonna slow down that, and also you're gonna s uh deaden the cold feeling on your tongue.
+
+[43:42] So the higher alcohol or sugar you go in a frozen drink, the uh the colder it needs to be to draw at the same texture, right? To so let's say you're freezing 50% of the liquid. Like that point, that 50% point, which is what the machine's gonna get to, can be six degrees below zero Celsius if it's like basically sugar, mostly sugar. It can be minus 14, right? Which is cold, right?
+
+[44:09] So, or even lower if it's even higher alcohol. So a little bit of air whipped in will one make it melt slower, and two will uh make it not as painful on your mouth. Anyway, there you have it. Um, you think I like answered Andrew's question? Yeah, I think so.
+
+[44:27] Uh how do you think you pronounce K Jadlin? The user who I I would do just like that. Really? Okay. Uh a friend of mine who bought uh this, and I'll tell you guys what this is in a minute.
+
+[44:44] This on a women at Antique store has been wondering whether it's safe to drink. So the picture I see is of Burroughs' alcoholic cloves cordial. Now, uh for those of you that can't see, uh, it's got the classic beef eater uh picture. Now, beef eater is someone who's supposed to eat uh the sovereign's food ahead of time. In case you're gonna poison the sovereign, you kill the beef eater first.
+
+[45:10] Apparently, they haven't figured out that some poisons take a while to act, and that I could kill the beef eater and you, you know what I mean? It seems like a seems like weak. I mean, like if I'm gonna kill you with something, I'm gonna get around the beef eater. I mean, I know you have one. So Burroughs was the name of the person who started kind of beef eater gin, and they used to have a bunch of other products besides by the way.
+
+[45:33] Do you know the beef eater gin got ruined recently? They lowered the proof. Really? Yeah. Why?
+
+[45:39] Because they hate us and qual I don't know. Like beef eater was a highly respected gin. Like I have used it a bunch of times. Everyone loves that picture on the front of the guy who's willing to die for, you know, for the sovereign. And I don't know, man.
+
+[45:52] They're just like, we're gonna lower the proof. The hell is that? Yeah, sounds like a mistake. It's trash cans. Trash can moves.
+
+[46:00] Anyway so it's it's made by that same company. Uh it turns out that uh this drink, the alcoholic cloves cordial, is both less alcoholic and probably a lot older than I thought when I bought it. As near as we can tell from examining the maker's mark on the bottle, uh the well, there's a little bit of contradictory here. The bottle cannot have been made later than 1905. Maybe you mean earlier than 1905, because you then say it's gotta be anyway.
+
+[46:25] Uh this would be weird and surprising, but it seems to be accurate recording everything we can figure out about it. Even with uh without that, the ABV labeling is not one that would have been legal after 1989. So the absolute newest it could be is 35 years old, and we think that's implausible. 1960s or earlier seems much more likely. That makes sense, right?
+
+[46:42] So uh I guess it's obvious, is it safe or unsafe? And if neither of those, what test should you run to uh put it into one of those categories? It's safe, drink it. You know what I mean? Like, unless you're trying to recreate it, in which case you need to send it for GC mass specs somewhere.
+
+[46:57] Uh, you know, call Ariel or whatever, you know, send a sample and I'll forward it. Although she doesn't have a current one running, I don't think. Yeah, it's safe. People drink this, people drink this kind of stuff all all the time. I don't know how clovey it is, right?
+
+[47:10] So uh I mean the the the active principle of clove is usually and I'm pretty sure that you will not want to have enough usinol to kill you. Do you know what I'm saying? Like I I feel it's self-limiting, right? Because like when when someone like wickedly cloves something, you're like, oh yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[47:30] That's like like going back to House Alpens, they make allspice dram, uh, St. Elizabeth allspice dram. And if you add too much of that allspice dram, I'm like, oh yeah, yeah. And then that's like the usion all and other stuff in it. So it's real pungent.
+
+[47:45] And you know, who the hell knows? If you don't like it, you could probably use it to knock out some fish because it's uh clove oil, the usinol, the isousionols the same stuff that we used to use to uh anesthetiz before we performed Ikajimi and lobsters. Lobsters taste noticeably better when you clove oil them before you kill them. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
+
+[48:02] It's a pain in the butt. I don't do it anymore. I I do knife them now. You knife your lobsters? Yeah.
+
+[48:09] Do you save the juice? How do you kill how do you do lobsters now? I don't save the juice, but it's not a bad idea. I don't know, just like a knife right down, like back behind the eyes, I guess. You have a combi?
+
+[48:22] Yeah. Well, I don't cook lobster at the restaurant, but that would be a way to do it. Yeah. That way you're not like boiling out all the stuff. You can save the stuff that comes out of them.
+
+[48:30] Because the problem with them is that the is that there's a lot of flavor in the hemolith or whatever you call it, like the the bodily fluids of the of the animal. And when you brain spike it, you lose a lot of that. So, you know, we used to do stupid stuff at the FCI. Like, I think one time, I don't know if you remember this, Nastasia. One time we we glued the lobster back together before we cooked it.
+
+[48:57] We brain spiked it, like rattled everything around there in the front, and then like covered it with like sugro or something like that, and then cooked it. We did all kinds of dumb experiments. Like we would put them in bags, we would kill them and put them in bags and steam them so that that you wouldn't lose the juice. All kind of dumb. Yeah.
+
+[49:15] All manner of all manner of stupid. Because anyway. Anyway, all manner of dumb. Hen bats. Uh Dave mentioned how he likes to have salad on his pizza.
+
+[49:27] I often do this and just mix the greens with some garlic, balsamic, and olive oil. Was curious uh for uh my go-to pizza salad topping. Uh anything, man. Anything. I put anything on that.
+
+[49:38] Like uh, you know, I put uh although I do like just I do like a like a light vinaigrette because the problem is if it is if a salad has too much garbage in it, then it starts interfering with the flavors of the pizza. You know what I mean? So, like uh what's the what's the current classic? Four to one oil to vinegar? Yeah, five to one, four to one.
+
+[49:57] Uh more oil, obviously. Uh, and salt, pepper, you know? It's nice. Because are you gonna eat the salad separate from the pizza? If you're gonna eat the salad separate from the pizza, then you need to make the salad delicious on its own.
+
+[50:12] As a topping, as a pizza topping, you want it to be more neutral because it's gotta go with the pizza. Although, you know, what doesn't hurt a salad or a pizza is parmigiano. Or does blasonic age vinegar? Yeah. I mean I mean, well, you can over vinegar and then it's gonna affect the pizza.
+
+[50:28] You know what I'm saying? That's why you gotta like you don't need a lot with that stuff, yeah. Yeah, right, right. You want it, yeah. You want it to be, you don't want it to be dry, right?
+
+[50:34] So when Nastasi and I used to do it at Roberta's, we would pour like half of the oil they had on the table on the greens and like a bunch of the salt. That was our standard M.O., right, Stas. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Some prosciutto in it doesn't hurt either.
+
+[50:48] Prosciutto doesn't hurt much. Prosciuto doesn't hurt much. So my mom out of very hungry now. My mom out of nowhere on Father's Day, she's like, I hope you're having bacon. Bacon makes everything delicious.
+
+[50:59] I'm like, Ma, what is this? Ten years ago? On the bacon train? But like, yes, I did have bacon, but weird. Weird thing to text me.
+
+[51:07] You know what I mean? Yeah. Anyway. Um, everyone knows I like bacon. Shift drink writes in.
+
+[51:13] I picked a bunch of sour cherries that I'm planning on making into cocktail cherries. In an early episode, you mentioned briefly soaking in calcium chloride. Ball makes a product called pickle crisp. That's a good word, right? Pickle crisp?
+
+[51:25] A pickle crisp. Uh called Pickle Crisp, which appears to be just calcium chloride according to the ingredient list, probably with some like anti-caking agents or some other trash. Uh the instructions are to add uh to picking mixture instead of a brief soak, would you still recommend a soak and are there taste quality issues with calcium chloride being in the product long term? Well, look, marginal here's what you need to do, Shift Drink. Go buy you, go buy you some tomatoes in a can with calcium chloride and tomatoes in a can without calcium chloride.
+
+[51:59] The ones without calcium chloride, unless they add a different form of calcium like calcium lactate or calcium lactate gluconate, uh, will be noticeably mushier, but if you can taste the bitter notes that are in the one with calcium chloride, then you and well, since since your name is Shift Drink, I'm assuming you're doing this professionally and not just doing them for yourself, right? Uh for a bar. So you have to assume that some people will be able to taste it. So you have to really keep the level of calcium chloride down. And the good news is it doesn't take much calcium chloride to reinforce the pectin that's already there, right?
+
+[52:32] So what it's really doing is preventing pectin breakdown. If you add the soak that I like to do is with uh calcium and uh pectin methylesterase, which is an enzyme that actually like you know maraschinalizes them makes them so that they're like bulletproof. Remember with a sour cherry that you want to get those things uh taken care of before they bruise because they turn a really terrible color once they uh don't you hate that color? Yeah it's so gross. Yeah I don't know why but they turn like a really gross color once they've been like de-stemmed and brown yeah yeah just why though what's in them?
+
+[53:10] I don't know. It's weird. Yeah. Yeah. Um so anyway so I would also like you know it's too bad it's too late you can't run a test beforehand because now you already have all the product but yeah a little bit of calcium.
+
+[53:25] I don't know the number off the top of my head though. Uh Andrew Harrison uh I have a question about freezing points for cocktails. Is there a formula for determining a cocktail's freezing point? I imagine the ABV and bricks play a large role in determining the final freezing point of a cocktail but if you have to find a formula or source online that explains it for me I'm interested in doing some canned cocktails like Mike Capafari mentioned in the episode y'all did with him thanks. Okay so what you have to do and again going back to to uh golf in Goth there is a procedure for measuring the way that you do it is you have to measure what's called the freezing curve.
+
+[53:59] So you're not probably interested maybe you are maybe you're interested in the point of first crystal right and so the point of first crystal is uh fairly easily calculated uh I don't have the numbers on the top of my head but you know you you you figure out how many moles of uh ethanol you have, how many moles of sugar, what kind of sugar it is, and you can calculate what the freezing point depression is and when the first crystals are. And I have very complicated version of it at home on, you know, in an Excel spreadsheet for me to generate my freezing curves, right? So then what you do is is you take it to the first curve, and then you just keep recalculating how much uh water has been frozen out, and you recalculate the concentration. So to get, you do an iterative process where you can figure out, and that's how they calculate freezing curves in the ice cream business. They're typically iterative, iterative processes.
+
+[54:54] So you're like, you say, okay, if if 50% of my water has been frozen, uh then what's what would the concentration of the liquid be? And now what then would be the freezing point of the first cr next crystal that would form at that freezing point. And so you calculate it on a percentage frozen basis. Now, uh alcohol's not linear, right? It's close enough to linear for you to be able to treat it relatively linearly.
+
+[55:22] Um so you know, you're gonna be a little wrong, but not like a lot wrong. And then sugar starts to get nonlinear once you have a lot of it and it's frozen down above, because you can freeze something. If something is like 10 bricks and it's 50% frozen, well, now it's 20 bricks, right? So, you know, you can it it starts getting nonlinear when you freeze that much, but it it's uh, you know, I don't know, maybe Quinn will put a freaking calculator up or something. I can give them the I can give them the incredibly long and incredibly mind numbing polynomial that I use.
+
+[55:56] Um Bruce uh traveled a lot last year, last year to Quebec, Denmark, and Belgium. Belgium. Hey. Wonder whether uh Bruce used your uh Hopefully. If if Bruce is smart, Bruce used your uh your stuff.
+
+[56:10] Yeah. Yeah. Uh so we decided on a modest domestic trip for the summer. We're coming to New York City for the first time in a few years and have a few questions. I will be there the first week of July.
+
+[56:20] Oof. New York in July. Uh this coming week is going to be a brutal too. You know what? Make sure your hotel has a good shower.
+
+[56:30] Like that's that's the biggest tip. Make sure your hotel has a good shower. Get some nice shampoo. Uh what farmers market should I make time for? And are any of them gonna have Aunt Rubies?
+
+[56:43] No. It's too early. Maybe at the end of July, they're gonna start having them, but that's I'm pretty sure that's too early. And there's only one farmer, there's plenty of Aunt Rubies, but the only one that's worth going to, no offense to other people who grow them, is Stokes. And he only is there, farmer Ron's only there on Saturdays, and you have to get there at here's an one thing to know about New York farmers markets is that uh well the the one in Union Square specifically, the you know, the b the main one, is that chefs, honest to god, go there and they all go early in the morning, and uh the good stuff is gone.
+
+[57:24] So if you're like, oh, the farmer's market closes at five. No. No. Not I mean, if you want the dregs, you know, if you want if you want to buy uh like dog jerky, not jerky made from dogs, jerky for your dogs, right? Then you can go at five.
+
+[57:40] You know what I mean? But if you want like, you know, I want this herb, right? No. Show up at like nine, nine thirty. Yeah.
+
+[57:50] Yeah. You know, like eat like I I've biked over there even at like 10 30. I've been like tomatoes. And he's like, gone. Gone.
+
+[58:02] You know what I mean? Um. So uh temperance wine bars on the list, along with Russ and Daughters, Cats, uh, Thai Diner, Stretch Pizza, and Balthazar. What places are unmissable? I live in rural South Georgia, so access to high quality ethnic foods is one of the main draws of any trip to city.
+
+[58:19] Go to Queens. Just spend a lot of time in Queens. Even just a neighborhood suggestion. Also, your bar is gonna be open by then? Yes, probably.
+
+[58:26] I mean, when? Yeah. If it's look, either it's open or I will have beaten my head to a bloody pulp and I won't be doing the show anyway. So best of luck with it. Thanks.
+
+[58:35] What do you got? What do you got? Suggestions. Uh FICO's for a sandwich. Old school Italian American sandwich shop bleaker.
+
+[58:44] It's been around for 120 years. Um Dame was really delicious. I'd recommend going to Maneta Tavern over Balthazar also. Um that's all I can think of right now. Yeah, Wenrick wanted to know flour tortilla recipes are all over the place online.
+
+[59:00] What do I use? I have a grinder and Sonora and wheat berries. You gotta grind them extremely fine, extremely fine, extremely fine, or they won't puff. This is higher than anyone else uses, and they don't use butter, but I use about 20% butter, and I use anywhere between I use around 75% or even sometimes a little more because it's whole wheat. That's why I can do it.
+
+[59:19] 75 between 75 and 80 uh percent hydration. You need the hell out of it, let it rest for a long time. It's gonna take a lot of flour to dust to roll out, but those are things are gonna puff like a mammogama and be delicious. Uh Phil Stan, I'll answer your question on soda siphons next time. Kevin Young wrote in uh from uh Noma about uh stock of Conte Danish makes a they make a Conte cheese stock, Conte like, right?
+
+[59:44] Wants to reuse the stuff when it's over. I have to do some more thinking on it, uh Kev. So the intention is like to use the solids that are left over and then remake them into a halloumi. Wants to know whether it has to add fat uh and or stuff back to it or water. I don't really think look.
+
+[1:00:00] I don't know how much here's what I want you to do, Kev, before I think about it more. Measure the actual moisture content. So they wring as much stuff of it out, but I bet you it's still relatively high moisture because it's holding a lot of moisture. What you do is is take a chunk of it, weigh it, then put it into an oven at 250 Fahrenheit and just let it sit for like hours until it bakes dry. You're not gonna volatilize the fat at that temperature, and you're not gonna volatilize the case and stuff.
+
+[1:00:24] You're just gonna determine how much water you can liberate. That's gonna give you an idea of what the moisture content is and standard Gruyere Conte is about 30%. Uh otherwise, if you want it to melt, you can obviously add some uh citrate back to it. Uh Azu, I know we're done. Azu, I don't know that I should answer your question.
+
+[1:00:44] I will answer online about uh how to drink a fifth of uh vodka between five people in five minutes. It seems like an irresponsible thing for me to uh encourage you doing, but maybe we'll talk about it next time. Cooking cheese.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking East. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, News Dance Studios, joined as usual with John and Farmy. How are you doing, John? Doing great, thanks. Yeah, got Joe Hazen rocking the panels.
+
+[0:22] What's up? Hey man, great to see you. Great to see you as well. Last week we weren't here because of the COVID. I had the COVID and we missed Edward from Edwards Age Meets.
+
+[0:29] I was very sad about that. We did get the meat though. That's true. You could talk about that uh later. Uh a little bit later in the program, I think we're gonna have from the upper upper left uh Quinn, but I think he's dialing in a little bit later, feeling a little bit under the weather.
+
+[0:41] Anastasia the hammer Lopez on an aerial plane, so cannot call in. But thank goodness, even though he has been sick, we have from that other coast, Jackie Molecules. How are you doing, Jack? Yo, I'm recovered. I'm good.
+
+[0:54] Uh you're feeling well. You sound good. You sound recovered. Yeah, it was real short for me. It's like a cold.
+
+[0:58] I I wouldn't have even known I had COVID, but I had a bunch of people coming over, so I tested for for giggles. So I didn't lose my uh, you know, and I had it. Oh wow. Yeah, I had it. Did you have the the COVID or you had something else?
+
+[1:10] No, they didn't say it was COVID, but sure as hell felt like it. I was knocked out for like a good week. I like how that, but you still have your taste and everything, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[1:20] That would suck too. I I like uh I thankfully the as as good as my taste has ever been, it is now, which is good because I'm back in uh in bar in bar development uh in bar development now. So I was a little bit nervous when I came back positive. Because sometimes even if you don't have like terrible, terrible symptoms, you can you know knock out that knock out that taste for a good long while. So hey, I think we might have Quinn on the phone.
+
+[1:44] We already have Quinn. Hey, Quinn, you're back? You're back? Great, good. Great.
+
+[1:48] Good to hear you. Good to hear you. Nice. So, uh, for those of you listening live on Patreon, calling your questions to 917 410 1507. That's 917 410 1507.
+
+[1:58] And you can only do that if you're on the Patreon. And John, why don't you tell them how to do that and why they might want to? Patreon, or go check out Patreon.com slash cooking issues, and you can find out uh, you know, all the different membership levels we got, all the awesome perks uh that go along with it, including discounts with our friends like people from uh Edwards Age Meets, uh, Kitchen Arts and Letters. You get access to the Discord, you get the video feed. Um there's just a whole bunch of great perks, so yeah, check it out.
+
+[2:22] Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Yeah, you get all sorts of stuff. For some, for instance, like uh Fabian uh von Howski, you know, uh I call him fabulous, uh, from Contra, he's like, Dave, you posted a freaking like gelato recipe. I'm like, I did not. I did not.
+
+[2:36] I was like, Quinn did. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, you need to keep that straight. Like, like most of the time these days, if it's gonna be on our uh Patreon you're gonna get a recipe for gelato, it's gonna be Quinn.
+
+[2:48] Yeah. So you want to tell them in a or the calculator based on your recipe, like with the um the key line pie acid adjustment. Yeah, yeah. We got a bunch more of those. We got a bunch, uh how did it become uh like I missed the whole thing where a collaboration got shortened to collab and everyone started doing it, and Dax like years ago was like uh collab.
+
+[3:13] Well, what the hell are you talking about? And like first of all, collaborations didn't used to be a thing, really. You know what I mean? It wasn't a thing. Anyway.
+
+[3:21] Or they didn't even call they didn't call them collaborate. I bet you there's most of these things aren't collaborations anyway, right? Like it's just like, how about I use your name, slap it on my product, and we call it a collaboration, you know? Yeah. Which is weak.
+
+[3:33] It's weak. Marketing, man. Yeah. Marketing is such trash. You know what I mean?
+
+[3:38] Yeah. It is, I agree. I hate it so much. And like, you know, separating marketing hoo ha from real hoo-ha is like so complicated unless you're actually an expert in the field. Like anyone who's listening who's an expert in their field, whenever they read anything in their field written by not an expert or even an expert who's trying to push themselves, you're like, that's horse hockey.
+
+[4:00] That's garbage. That's bull. You know what I mean? But then everyone outside believes it because they have no freaking frame of reference. So I assume that if in my field that's the way it is, it's that way in every field.
+
+[4:12] You know what I mean? Yep. So the more like the the less I know some about something, the less I trust what people tell me about it. A hundred percent of the time. You know what I mean?
+
+[4:20] Anyway. Which is not which is not a reason to have to go to learn everything. You know what I mean? You can't you can't do that. Just go through uh life with a healthy distrust of everything you hear.
+
+[4:35] Alright, so what are you guys uh I know everyone's been uh uh under the weather except for John. So uh any anyone have anything interesting from uh last week before we uh get to the uh questions or she what do you got? What do you got? Before I got it uh before I got sick, we uh went over to Yang's kitchen, which I had been hearing a lot about, just place in Alhambra. Um and had it's it's just sort of like uh I don't know what what they actually I guess they call it Chinese fusion, right?
+
+[5:04] And then they do a brunch. They made this cornmeal mochi pancake, what that blew my mind. So you're saying fused with what though? So Chinese fused with Japanese, fused with like I know that's a silly thing. Chinese fused with like market driven whatever American, I guess, whatever you call that.
+
+[5:21] Alright, so when you say mochi, they probably used mochiko, right? So mochi flour and and cornmeal, so it's it was gritty and stretchy at the same time. Yeah. Good? Then it was so good.
+
+[5:34] It was so, so good. Yeah. I I made the mistake. I made the mistake in pancakes this weekend of mixing. So, you know, do you guys like in pancakes?
+
+[5:44] Do you like that gritty feeling of cornmeal or in in corn like do you guys enjoy the grittiness of cornmeal? In general, I do. Yeah. Okay. So you can affect the texture of uh cornmeal things by how long you rest the batter, right?
+
+[6:01] Because it depends that that's going to change like kind of how much hydration, depending on the grind of the cornmeal. So I made the mistake of putting coarse rice flour into a pancake because whenever I clean my mill, by the way, you should not clean your coffee grinder with with rice. You guys familiar with cleaning grinders with rice? Yeah. So white rice.
+
+[6:24] White rice. Because the idea is that white rice is A, real hard, right? And you know, kind of vitreous, and B, it doesn't have a lot of fat or anything on the outside or because it's been polished already down to white. So it acts like little abrasive stones and rips all of the crap that you've gummed up your stones with off, right? Now, the same thing holds true for coffee grinders.
+
+[6:49] Except uh grain mills are meant to mill really hard grains. Coffee isn't actually that hard. And uh, for those of you that grind coffee a lot, uh, you know, you you've noticed maybe even like the brevel grinder, if you put beans that are very light in them, beans that are very light haven't puffed up as much. They haven't got as much pyrolysis. They're literally denser, and they're much, much harder than uh a dark roast bean.
+
+[7:13] So if you pick up a dark roast bean, you can almost pop in your hand, like smash it into into dust, right? Whereas the greener ones, the ones that are like, you know, uh like tan colored when that they're roasted, those things are are are much harder, and they can choke out a uh a grinder. So I used to have a brevel grinder as part of an oracle coffee uh thing that if you put too light a roast into it, the clutch, the safety clutch would engage and it wouldn't be able to grind anymore. Most grinders don't have a safety clutch in them. However, rice can be hard enough to damage the grinder.
+
+[7:44] So you don't want to put uh regular white rice in, but you can put minute rice. So if you want to grind with uh if you want to clean, you don't want to buy the the actual stuff to clean out a grinder, the actual stuff that's made for that. Uh you can use minute rice because it's par cooked and so it's more porous and cracks a lot easier, isn't going to damage your your grinder. In a grain mill, I'm allowed to grind rice. So I grind rice and boom, so you put it like semi coarse and you just put like, you know, a you know, like a hundred, two hundred uh grams of rice through it, cleans the cleans the burrs out like nobody's business.
+
+[8:21] But I made the mistake of putting it into the pancakes, cooking it right away. Those little rice things didn't hydrate as well, and coarse rice flour bits, not as nice as coarse cornmeal bits, a little harder on the harder on the chew, a little grittier. So yeah. So I had a related mistake to your uh revelation at uh at uh Yang's there. I don't know.
+
+[8:44] Cool. You're like, don't care. So uh well, I care. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting.
+
+[8:51] Yeah, yeah. What were the toppings you put on it again? Uh just whipped cream and fresh berries. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[8:57] Uh were they freaking Harry's berries? You'd freaking LA garbage can with you with your good products. Oh, blueberries, blueberries. Like, I'm so jealous of like the berry game that you guys have over there. So jealous of it.
+
+[9:10] You know what I mean? I mean, like, yeah. I mean, blue blueberries, it can chip. We can get a decent blueberry. Yeah.
+
+[9:16] Like I love blueberries, by the way. Me too. I don't do you like small tart or big water balloons? I like small tarts. Yeah, definitely not the water balloons.
+
+[9:24] That's disappointing. Yeah, no, no. They do I have had big good ones. That's nice. These were big good ones at Yang.
+
+[9:32] Really? They were big, but not tasteless. Yeah. Yeah. Someday.
+
+[9:37] I've done the Harry's berries thing. Someday I'll do the Oregon like small fruits, like uh bonanza and go up there and get all of their all of the bramble fruits. I find bramble fruits, you know, raspberries, blackberries almost always disappointing compared to what they could be. Yes. You know what I mean?
+
+[9:55] Yeah, I love a good raspberry. Oh my god. Oh my god, right? Yes. Right.
+
+[10:00] So good. I even really, really love a good blackberry. I can look over the the core, the hardcore. That's probably the hardest fruit to find tasting like remotely good. Yeah, just always such trash.
+
+[10:16] In my area, they're just everywhere. Yeah, well blackberries. Well, actual blackberries. Like we get wine berries, which are are good, but they're hard to they're hard to. No, they're blackberries around my house or at like it're good.
+
+[10:29] Yeah, I mean, yeah. Yo, I didn't ask if you had around your house. I said, Are they good? No, I'm kidding, I'm just messing around with you. But uh, I mean, because like to me, the mo the big the biggest problem with blackberries is a lack of acidity, right?
+
+[10:44] So like a lot of them are low acid, um, and then the texture is unacceptable. Well, if it's just tastes like slightly sweet water with that with the core in the middle, I don't love it anymore. You know what I mean? The other problem is, and since you don't have to buy them in a supermarket, Quinn. Uh the problem with supermarket blackberries is often the only flavor they have is a slight flavor of mold.
+
+[11:09] You know what I mean? Like they get a little moldy in them and then and then that's all it that's all that's all they wrote. You know what I mean? But uh a good black a good blackberry is a great thing. Yeah.
+
+[11:18] Yeah. Yeah. What other berries do you have growing on there in Vancouver Island? Uh I don't know if they're local local. But sometimes we bring up the store.
+
+[11:27] Uh these things called Kerries. Have you ever heard of those? Tay T A Y? Yes. No.
+
+[11:34] What are they like? What berry are they? They are they're they're a brambleberry. They look like a raspberry. Slightly longer.
+
+[11:43] They almost look like a dark red uh mulberry. Huh. But they're they're from uh they're from a bush, not from a tree. They do look kind of like a mulberry. Yeah.
+
+[11:52] Good. What they're they they're like a raspberry, a slightly strawberry-ish flavor as well, and then slightly uh floral. They're very good. Sounds good. Sounds like I would like that.
+
+[12:08] Also, mulberries almost always disappointing. Yeah. Yeah. A good mulberry, good. Good.
+
+[12:14] You know what I don't really like? Dried mulberries. I mean Ever had they're fine, but they're fine. But they're not like, ooh, I can't wait till I can't wait till these things are dried down. You know what I mean?
+
+[12:27] Yeah. Also, mulberry is so messy. So messy. So messy. Um and not just on the street, like in your hands.
+
+[12:35] You know what I mean? Yep. Shad berries, June Bush, have a little bit of that bleachy flavor. Do you like that? Like Juneberry service berry shad berries?
+
+[12:44] I don't know if I've had any of those. I mean, they're they grow around here. They're not commercially available, but they they grow around here. But you know how some berries, the skins have that kind of little bit of a bleachy hit to them. They've got that.
+
+[12:54] I used them in a in a drink a couple of times, but it's a pain. To hire someone at bartender wages to go out and forage for you in New York City. Yeah. Not a it's not a thing. And then you know, do you know that for a fact I like listen, people in New York City, I know people that have been approached.
+
+[13:12] I've been approached, and they're like, you can't do that. And you're like, um, yes, I can. And people are like, what? No, you can't. I'm like, oh yeah, yes, I can.
+
+[13:20] And they're like, but I'm like, well, you go find the statute that says that I can't eat these mulberries now. Like, bring it back to me, and then I'll give you half of mine. You know what I mean? It's like, you idiot. You know what I mean?
+
+[13:32] Like, come on. Yeah. They're gonna end up on the ground. Do you know what you know what I've never scavenged for in this city? But I should, if I I don't have the stomach for it, is the ginkgo nuts.
+
+[13:42] Ginkgo trees, the the vast majority of ginkgo trees in the United States, well, they're all cultivated, right? There is no such thing as a wild ginkgo tree in the United States. Uh they're all cultivated. The vast majority of them that are younger than I think 60 or 70 years old, 50 years old or something, are male because they they are uh there's male and female ginkgos. They don't have the same, you know, they're not either perfect or you know, the male and female on the same tree.
+
+[14:12] The females make ginkgo nuts, the males don't. Ginkgo nuts stay hink ink ink. Sting stinky. Stinky. Stinks, stinky, thinks.
+
+[14:24] Oh my god. Terrible. Oh my god. Like sick. Oh, yeah.
+
+[14:26] Like vomit, like butyric acid, like gross. And you step on it and they're slimy. So you step on it with your shoes and phoboom, and then you can link because they drop a lot of them drop at once, and then you got like uh just a like a whole ground cover of of stink slime. And you can smell it from like half a block away when that when that thing happens. So pretty early on, once these trees reach maturity after they started cultivating them, people are like, no, not so much.
+
+[14:55] Not so much. But uh I know of very prolific uh female ginkgo tree in the New York Botanical Garden. That one you are not allowed to freaking forage. You cannot forage a dang thing from the New York Botanical Garden. So do not attempt.
+
+[15:07] But in my community garden, we also have a female ginkgo. So I'm thinking maybe I'll glove up, because the nuts, once you like wash off the stink, and then you, you know, you cook them fresh, they get that green, that like hyper green look once you peel the outside off and they look green. I'm kind of excited to try the, but I don't know, it's such a pain in the butt. Have you ever tried to bring fruit into the botanical gardens before? No.
+
+[15:30] Get ready. Oh my god, dude, you get pinned up against the wall, like searched, everything. I swear to God, we brought strawberries. They're like, no, no, everyone pull everything under your bags. Oh man.
+
+[15:40] Wow. Man. I mean, I brought in like bagels and locks. They don't yeah, that's fine. You're not growing locks for little locks bushes there.
+
+[15:48] They are growing strawberries. Yeah, I mean, in fact, one of the best picnics I've ever had, I made bagels and I made locks, and I bought Russ and Daughters cream cheese, and we went in when the magnolias weren't in full bloom, and we had a picnic under like one of the giant magnolias in like full. We haven't had an amazing magnolia because it we've had weird temperature swings right around magnolia time here. But like, oh my goodness. Bagels and locks under the magnolias and in the Bronx.
+
+[16:16] Ugh does not get better. Rip and seltzer, have some rip and seltzer. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah, man.
+
+[16:24] That's life. Uh how do we get on berries? Oh, the pancakes. Here's my issue on pancakes. Did you let any of the mochi pancakes sit around until it got too cold?
+
+[16:34] No, I didn't. Housed. Uh for a while I was on a mochi kick. Because I don't know if you remember this. I had a mochi maker.
+
+[16:44] I still have it, the tiger brand mochi maker, which is actually really cool. If you have like a lot of money and space and you're throwing a party and you want to do a mochi party, consider the tiger mochi maker. So what you do is you stick the sticky rice in and you hit steam. It steams the sticky rice for you, right? To perfection.
+
+[17:02] And then you dump the sticky rice into the bottom, and it's got like a little mini, instead of like a normal mixer, it's almost like a mixer mitts mixed with a little tiny fist at the bottom of the thing, and you just toss the sticky rice in whole, like you know, like a big pile of sticky rice, and it goes and it just beats it into a ball of fresh mochi, which you then flip the lid upside down, and it's a mochi holder to hold the mochi so it doesn't stick to stuff, and then you can uh roll it, like you wet your hands, do whatever you're gonna do to, or like you know, uh sugar, whatever you're gonna do to like let you pick it up, rip it into into balls, and fresh mochi is amazing. And I mean, I've never done a lot of side-by-sides of mochico flour, which is you know, dried mochi flour. But like it's basically the equivalent of maseka to to the muse what maseka is to tortilla is mochico is to mochi, right? But the fresh stuff is so great. And so what we used to do is we would make fresh mochi and then throw it into the waffle irons to do the mochi waffles, and they go sh and they puff out and the outside gets all crispy, and then you break it and it's super light and airy, super light and air, and you rip it apart, it's got this amazing texture, and this is a hundred percent mochi, right?
+
+[18:17] But as soon as it cools off, and then gets hard and loses its awesomeness, and then you're like, no. So, like, you know, like like in my in the best of all worlds, like someone would just sit almost like tempura. Someone would sit there, make you the mochi item, you would eat it and then walk away. And so that's why I never ended up using the mochi stuff in any kind of professional thing, because I couldn't stomach the fact that someone wouldn't eat it while it was still warm. Like I couldn't, I couldn't do it.
+
+[18:46] You know what I mean? I just couldn't. That's like with cocktails, like I really want them to drink it like pretty quickly, but we do a 15-minute test on all of our cocktails, and if they're not still okay after 15 minutes, I'm like, no, you can't serve that. You know what I mean? If it tastes like poison after 15 minutes, I'm like, no.
+
+[19:01] Oh, big news. Big news, people. So we did a side-by-side taste test yesterday. Oh, short, short, long, short, long and short. So at Booker and Dax, the first bar, I served all of carbonated drinks in liquid nitrogen chilled champagne flutes, right?
+
+[19:19] Theory being, I don't want ice in my carbonated drink. Those drinks, by the way, were higher alcohol than I typically make now. They were like 13, 14%. So they did lose their bubbles relatively quickly, et cetera, et cetera. People got ripped up on them.
+
+[19:29] Anyway, modern carbonated drinks a lot lower in in alcohol. At existing conditions, we did a side-by-side of Collins Glass with cold draft style cubes, although they were made by Hozazaki Corporation, versus in champagne flutes and the uh the what's it called, the Collins Glass won after the fi 10 to 15 minute test. And so I allowed them to go out with ice, but I always hated it. And like watching the ice mate melt, always hated it. Most people have moved to Collins bears now because A, they look cooler, and B, they don't melt as much into the drink.
+
+[20:05] The problem with the Collins bear, tell me about the way that so a Collins beer, for those of you that don't know, is like it's about an inch or so, between an inch and an inch and quarter on a side and as long as the Collins glass, basically the whole length of the Collins glass. And because there's less surface area, you get less melt. But I don't like those ice cubes hitting my nose when I drink. Yeah. Hate that.
+
+[20:25] Hate. Oh, by the way, I'm not even gonna describe this. Guys, look up if you can. There's a I don't even know how recent it is, but I uh it's recent to me. I just found it.
+
+[20:35] There's a super interesting study on the shape of ice as it melts. So if you if you if your drink or if if liquid that the ice is melting in is a very specific temperature, around between three and five degrees Celsius, if the liquid stays at that temperature while the ice is melting, you get these amazing shapes on the ice as it melts because water, as it goes between um as it goes between like six degrees Celsius and zero goes through around four four degrees, goes through uh a density inversion. So the densest water is at around four degrees Celsius, and uh uh above that and below that, the density kind of inverts. So if your liquid is around that temperature, you get these crazy currents inside as the ice melts and the ice turns into this like weird, almost like handle grip, like this weird like shape. So anyway, I digress again, obviously, usually.
+
+[21:32] But go look up the pictures because it's fascinating. I haven't thought of a culinary use for it yet. Although now when I pick a piece of uh a collin spear out of a glass, I can be like, I know the uh approximate temperature of that trinket was melting about four degrees. Anyway, so uh going back to what we were saying. So uh this time I ran the test with a Collins spear, but instead of a champagne flute, a bistro glass, which is kind of like the ball of a, it's like the the bowl of an AP glass.
+
+[21:56] And by the way, uh you should know that even the general audience now still gets a 10% off of, we were using glass van stuff, uh 10% off uh glass. Van glassware, if they go to the website and put in the promo code Dave Arnold No Spaces, Dave Arnold. That's me. And uh so anyway, we were using their bistro glass, which is kind of like an AP wine glass on a short stem, and this time not a champagne flute in the bistro glass, bistro glass one, because the other one had just diluted too much after the 15 minutes. And so we're going back to no ice in the carbs, baby.
+
+[22:29] Long way to get to it, but that's what happened. And to me, to you, probably not news. To me, huge news. Huge weight off my shoulders. You know what I mean?
+
+[22:38] Not just because those cocktail uh those collins spears cost like 70 cents a pop or some crazy crap. You know what I mean? But like I mean, come on. You know what I mean? We also did a test of shake ice versus uh the cocktail cube, whether we're gonna like use shake ice or cocktail cube, and it's close.
+
+[22:58] I need to run a couple more tests, but it's looking like we might not even use shake ice. We might just use the cocktail uh cube. So I'm gonna maybe put my money where my patent is. There we go. You know what I mean?
+
+[23:07] Anyway, uh what I what was why was I talking about that? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know.
+
+[23:16] So we were supposed to have Edward from Edward's Age Meets on last week, and I was kinda sad that I had the well, I was sad I had the COVID for a number of reasons because it also threw the uh the development time for the bar kind of uh out of whack. But uh we did get the meat anyway, people. So uh what'd you do with it at the at the bar there? Uh we had one of the longhorn Denver steaks, um just seared it up and it's like a midshift snack kind of thing for us in the kitchen. It was very tasty.
+
+[23:42] What do you uh you know I hate tasty. You know t you know tasty to me means poisonous. Yeah, no. So Edward was saying this cattle is uh he's working with a local rancher uh out in California and with a custom feed, and I think it gets let me see. Molasses is part of it.
+
+[24:02] Um hold up two seconds. He texted this to me. Did you get any like flavor difference on the meat? Or you like I think the molasses came through a little bit. Um this is our own line of beef that we are raising and producing.
+
+[24:14] It's a mature longhorn steer over five years old. It is pasture raised and finished on a diet of barley, hops, and molasses for 120 days. Then the product gets put through his dry aging program. How yellow was the fat? There wasn't that much fat on the steak, the the Denver cut.
+
+[24:30] Because I've had uh the the old the oldest steak I had, I remember, remember like like a year or two ago. But it w it was like uh Noah Prime or whatever. It was some uh the in Brooklyn. Anyway, like uh it was I think grass for almost forever and the fat was like liquid. Yeah, it was crazy.
+
+[24:48] And you know, the the issue on meat that old is you have to like the texture of the old meat because it is gonna be different. Different like different and and not as soft. So if you want soft, like you know, young meat is the way to go, or else I mean I'm sure dry aging is gonna increase the proteolysis, so it's gonna break up the fibers a little more, but it's just you can't get around that. No, you can't. You know what I mean?
+
+[25:12] So you should still have a little a little chew to it. So not in a bad way, but yeah, yeah. Right. You just gotta re-jigger your your meant mentality, like maybe slice it differently. You know what I mean?
+
+[25:20] Exactly. Yeah, real thing, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I got the uh the petite filet, which is I guess also one of these magical chuck, one of these magical chuck things. Like uh, you know, the chuck is this thing that's like this one it's all these different muscles, and so we tend to just like take it as a block and like cook it and and then it's not possible to cook like a chuck steak properly because no two muscles want the same thing to happen to them, right?
+
+[25:46] So anyway, so the petite filet, I forget which part of it is, but I got it in kebab format along with uh uh a dry-aged Australian uh ribeye. So I did only cerez all. Well, and low temp. I did because I have the pro, so it's big, right? And so and since I can't have people over because you know, we still have it going around my house, I'm clear now, but the rest of the house is not.
+
+[26:07] So I did uh I did salt down, because I now I salt now I I used to hate any kind of pre-salting on the meat because I didn't do the temperature drop during low low temp. So if you keep you know meat at the cook temperature for any appreciable length of time, it's the you start creeping above. And I don't really have a time to get into like activation energies and like you know why that's the case, right? But um if you want the meat to taste like 54-5, let's say Celsius, 54.5 degrees Celsius, you take it to 54.5 and then you have to drop it immediately. Otherwise, over time, not instantly like it does when you're using high heat, but over time, that temperature will creep the apparent temperature as if you were in the instant apparent instantaneous cook temperature will creep up and up and up and up.
+
+[26:57] Not up and up and up, but like about two or three degrees, right? Over time. And so if you salt beforehand and you cook to the instantaneous uh temperature and then hold it, it gets firmer than if you didn't salt it. So you have longer when when you haven't uh salted the hell out of it to ride it, chill it, and bring it back up again. If you just hit that that like like instant equivalent temperature pretty quickly and then drop the cook temperature down to 52, which is what I, you know, that's the lowest I feel comfortable always circulating.
+
+[27:30] You can let it ride for a long time and the salt's not gonna hurt it. You can even chill it and bring it back up and it's not gonna taste kind of cured like like it used to. So for this one, um normally before I sear it, I I will so I I like to sear beforehand if I can. If I don't have time, searing after is the most important thing. But I uh I drop the temperature of the meat to 50 Celsius, which is really cool, so that when I sear it hard, I'm not gonna raise the temperature.
+
+[27:59] But the good thing about the Searsol, another patent. Uh the good thing about the Searzol is especially the pro, because the pro is so big, is that you don't get that much of a temperature rise as opposed to searing it in a in a pan. So I didn't need to drop it. I kept it at 52, pulled it directly out and seared it with no rest, no, no drop. So I just did a I the kebab pieces, I I put them on a skewer, and then here's my trick to not have the bag pop.
+
+[28:26] I stuck the last piece of meat on the end of the skewer. I cut the skew my metal skewers short so that they fit into a gallon Ziploc bag. Then I skewered up the kebab meat, salt, pepper, let them sit along with the meat, salt, pepper, sprayed uh grill pam. Do you use grill pam? I have.
+
+[28:43] I only use grill pam now. Yeah. Because it doesn't have the stuff in it that's gonna gum up your pans. Yeah, I've never. So I don't even bother keeping the other one in the house because I don't want my stuff to get gummed up.
+
+[28:53] And so even though even when I'm don't need it to be grilled pam, it's grill pam. So I grill uh I grill pam it and then seers all it all sides in the Ziploc bag with uh oil, phew cirked it at 545, four or fifty minutes, dropped it, let it ride 52, pull it out, seersol the hell out of it, and huge win. And those mini skewers in a gallon Ziploc bag, money, money, money. Because I have the the bamboo things, but how many times have you accidentally lit a bamboo skewer on fire? Yeah.
+
+[29:26] Oh my God. Also, they're round, so you can't turn them. Like the flat, the little flat metal ones, they turn meat. You know what I'm saying? They don't just slide around though.
+
+[29:34] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I hate that. Yep. Yeah.
+
+[29:37] Bamboo skewers, also, a bamboo skewer. Here's the thing. If you leave something on a bamboo bamboo skewer, not beef so much, but chicken, especially. If you bamboo skewer chicken, right, the moisture when you cook in the chicken swells the freaking wood. And then the wood goes and grabs on to the chicken for dear life.
+
+[29:58] This also happens sometimes on shrimp. So when they're hot, most of the time when I serve skewered meats, I don't actually leave them on the skewers for service. I strip them into a bowl with sauce so that people don't have to deal with the individual skewers. Because I'm not like, it's not the 80s. I don't have like, I'm not like, here's a chunk of undercooked onion, here's a poorly cooked mushroom, here's an overcooked piece of meat on a skewer and you eat it that way, right?
+
+[30:20] Which is how we used to do it in the 80s. You know, here's a tomato that is no parts good. You know what I mean? Like, you know what I'm saying? You don't soak your you don't soak your wood skewers?
+
+[30:30] Uh if you soak them, I think I've had it grip even beforehand. Even if you pre-soak, it doesn't burn as much. But when you strip them, it rips the meat apart. And splinters, too. Yeah, but you know what?
+
+[30:41] Maybe I don't pre-soak enough. How long do you pre-soak? I was I used to I don't I don't never had to really measure time. It was like whenever I was preparing something, I just throw it in the water, and then by the time I got to the grill, it was they seemed to be ready. Yeah.
+
+[30:53] All right. Maybe it's just I'm impatient. I mean, it's not like a cinnamon toothpick. How do you make a cinnamon toothpick? You ever made cinnamon toothpicks as a kid?
+
+[31:00] Nah. You weren't one of those people that sold cinnamon toothpicks to the kids in like aluminum foil. Oh my God. I wish. Oh my god.
+
+[31:08] I used to like the mint toothpicks that you would get individually wrapped at the diner. Oh my god, what are you guys doing? The cinnamon toothpicks, you can make them at home. It was like a sweet cinnamon oil. You soak them in the toothpick, and the longer you kept them in, the hotter they were.
+
+[31:19] I always go to this one guy, because he kept them in for like he'd forget that he'd have them. You put them in your mouth and your tongue was incinerated. Oh, I'm the best. Oh my gosh. Cinnamon toothpicks, you gotta bring back the Joe Hayes and cinnamon toothpick, dude.
+
+[31:32] Yeah, man. All right, okay. Have you ever hey Jack, you ever had this? Or Quinn, you ever had this cinnamon toothpick phenomenon? No.
+
+[31:38] No. Never even heard of it. Uh uh I I'm still stuck on grilled pan. What's grilled pan? Pam with an M.
+
+[31:45] Like it's spray grease. Yeah, but like it doesn't have we only have regular pan. No, come on. Canada, get with the times. You have it.
+
+[31:53] Do you know what else you have in Canada that I've never seen before? Have you heard of the Texas Mickey? No. What? It's Mickey is the largest size of liquor that is sold in the in uh North America.
+
+[32:08] And they only sell it in Canada. It's like How many handles is it? It's like a gallon. Yeah, it's like uh maybe you know John can look it up. But the Texas Mickey is so big that you don't pour it, it's got a it's got a squeezy pump on the top, and you dispense it out of a squeezy pump.
+
+[32:26] Why it's called a Texas Mickey, nobody knows, because they don't sell it in Texas or anywhere in the United States for that matter. Only in Canada. Quinn, you're you're you you and yours aren't a Texas Mickey kind of a family? No, we are not a Texas Mickey kind of family. Although I do have something to talk about, actually, despite uh all the goings on, and speaking of skewers, we actually did a whole registery pig on Sunday.
+
+[32:53] Ooh, okay. Now I'm I'm going to uh I was gonna say grill you, but that would be terrible. So I'm gonna pester you. Yeah. What kind of uh what kind of motor do you have on your rotisserie?
+
+[33:05] Manual. Okay. All right. All right. And what kind of old school?
+
+[33:10] What well what kind of skewer? How long wait, manual? So, like, how many people did you have like like working the thing? I mean, it was like, you know, we switched out it was like I guess three to four capable adults. Over how many hours uh it was okay we have this running almost joke like we always ask the busher for a suckling pig.
+
+[33:41] Yeah, it's always it's always too big. It's always too big. It's always too big. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this was the smallest one we got.
+
+[33:49] I think it was 30 pounds. All right. Alright, it's still big. I think it was only about like a a four or five hour cook. Only so that means each person was doing over an hour of constant cranking?
+
+[34:05] And you didn't have a Texas picky. Honestly, I don't I don't even know what the outside looked like. But someone kept saying that someone was sending it. So I assume they were either spinning it or just monitoring it. I don't know.
+
+[34:19] Was it volunteer? I mean, what was going on? You told him picked like it was like like lottery? It's like everyone was just hanging out. We did like an three week Canada day celebration.
+
+[34:31] Yeah. I mean, I don't know. The idea of sitting there, I mean, that's why they used to have spit dogs. Remember Spit Dogs? Yeah.
+
+[34:38] Yeah. Yeah. Like uh Man, Quinn, that is not a job I would want. I am glad that, you know, your family did that. How was the pig, first of all?
+
+[34:49] It was pretty good, actually. Yeah. I hate buttons on on getting the um focusing getting the like, you know, the legs and the shoulders to a certain temperature. Right. Make sure they're tender.
+
+[35:01] Did you use combustion ink thermometer for testing? No. Next time. Make your life easy. Next time, maybe.
+
+[35:10] Yeah. Next time. You have two combustion ink thermometers. By the way, first time ever, I was showing somebody I was showing the team at the bar that the temperature of uh of um beverages goes up as you carbonate them because of the heat of solution. It's like actually like, you know, the the energy level changes, the heat, the temperature of the fluid goes up just by putting carbon dioxide in it.
+
+[35:31] So I threw a combustion uh uh ink thermometer into a carbonator bottle, and it's the first and only time I've ever punctured a real soda bottle like that. I've had Fiji bottles fail catastrophically, spectacularly, and embarrassingly before because they're not meant to carbonate. But this one I'm like, I'm talking, you know, like I always talk when I'm looking at like this, and boom, the thermometer as I'm going up, I'm sh like it was fine. It was fine. And then I'm like, you're not shaking it hard enough.
+
+[36:05] You're not gonna get good transfer. So I go boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, pop, and it goes, and all of a sudden, like cocktails start spraying everywhere. Although it was first and only time it's ever ever happened. Anyway, all right, so uh, and so how was the pig though? Yeah, the pig was good.
+
+[36:23] Yeah, we did like uh salted it, and then we had like a a brush of like vinegar, salt, herb, begilla, you know. Yeah, yeah. But like vinegar, vinegar vinegar base, like almost like North Carolina. I would say, yeah, almost almost like I was I think I've seen it like Argentinian style where you like just brush a silk flavorful solution over it. I don't know.
+
+[36:50] Like there was no like um we didn't dress the meat after with a vinegar based thing where you were just brushing it with the solution while it cooked. Right. Well it's not like you can really pull the meat on a pig that small anyway, because it's like so close to the bone, and it's it's more about the ski I mean the skin and the how's the skin? It's uh skin. We got like a few, the fire was too hot at the beginning.
+
+[37:16] So we got a few burnt spots, and then I don't think the rest of it rendered as nicely as we were hoping. Oh man, to me it's I mean, again, the meat inside was pretty tasty, and we had a lot of bones. My dad's making a giant batch of cork stuck, so yeah, you got a lot of bones on those suckers. It's like it's it's not a very uh it's an expensive way to eat. You ever have in uh you ever have in Spain the super baby pigs that like come on?
+
+[37:43] Oh my god. The ones in the ground? Oh no, but they they cook them in like an oven, but they're like the earthen oven ones. Yeah, they're like, oh my god, the skin is like and then the fat like comes out. What's what's what's the skin called when they they make those like the the like uh in Spain?
+
+[37:59] I don't know. Yeah, like even like a Cuban like has uh the um they just sell this uh the skin of the chicharron? Like all the dressing. Yeah, yeah. But there's a million different kinds of like there's a million for every country there's their there's a there's a chicharron like to to have.
+
+[38:13] Uh anyway, I'm glad that it was actually I'm so glad it was hand uh turned because now I don't have to imagine those terrible rotisserie motors. Yeah. And then the breaks free. I didn't hear a struggling motor in the distance. So I I think it was entered.
+
+[38:35] I'll double check with my dad later. Wait a minute. This isn't something you already know? When when this was being planned, you weren't like. I wasn't outside.
+
+[38:43] Yeah, there's no Google Doc for this. Come on. Come on. Yeah, you didn't know. There wasn't like a calculator that they that your family could look at for uh time and time.
+
+[38:52] Your arm looks like a distant advisor. I see. I see. It was Canada today. Yeah, yeah, Canada.
+
+[39:01] All right, let's uh let's get to some questions, rip through that, and then uh we could talk about the I actually did do a very interesting cooking related. Oh, before I go to cooking related thing, I think remember uh I've said this a million times, it's in the book, that uh when you make a comparian soda, you have to add the acid right before you serve it, because if you store it, it gets super super bitter. Theo, our head bartender, uh was doing a genshin drink, and if you store the genshin tincture he makes with acid, it gets too bitter. So we think it's the gention, right? So it's it's like the genshin, like store gention steeped without acid, stored with acid gets bitter.
+
+[39:47] But we're trying to figure out all of the different ways to go around it to see whether we can land a hone exactly what's going on. I've talked to started talking to Ariel, so we're on it. So we're on the gent the genshin problem. The genshin. Um writes in Azou 14.
+
+[40:04] Now listen, a zoo has a drinking contest. Uh, we do not I do not condone drinking contests. No, like Edward Fordy's hands, nothing like that. It's irresponsible, right? So, like, even if you're young, I r I promote like uh responsible good drink.
+
+[40:23] I'm not saying don't drink. I'm not like obviously, you know what I mean? I drank. But I mean, I think speed challenges, I don't even do food speed challenges anymore, but I think it's better with food than it is with liquor. Yeah.
+
+[40:35] You know what I mean? Because like after you've made a poor food decision, then pretty much you don't make any more poor decisions because you're like, uh and you're just seated. But after a poor liquor decision, you can make further bad decisions that really impact your life in kind of a bad way, other than we you know, we also have for the Fourth of July coming up this Thursday. Yeah. A lot of bad decisions.
+
+[40:56] A lot of driving, people blowing their hands off with fireworks. You know what I mean? Definitely if you're lighting fireworks, light them sober. Yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[41:07] Definitely if you're lighting fireworks, light them sober. Um or you know, have a designated lighter or someone like that. You know what I mean? Who's like not gonna be anyway? So my friends and I have a summer bucket list challenge, and one of the uh challenges is to finish a fifth, uh now for those of you that don't know what a fifth is, a fifth is uh the way booze used to be sold in the United States of America.
+
+[41:28] It was a fifth of a gallon. Typically when you say a fifth, it's like a fifth of whiskey. So my grandpa was all about the fifth of whiskey. Uh a fifth is like ha it doesn't exist anymore. It's seven fifty now, right?
+
+[41:41] Which is not really a fifth of a gallon, but it's pretty close. So the seven fifty is still by some people called a fifth, and that's the standard kind of bottle unit here, but it's based on the fifth of a gallon. A handle, by the way, is based on half gallon. Even though it's not a half gallon, it's based on a half gallon, right? So a seven fifty is a metric fifth and uh one point seven five is a metric half gallon.
+
+[42:04] And that's why those two units of measure don't match up with each other, the one point seven five and the and the and the s and the seven fifty. So it's like, why doesn't it it it goes back to these like pseudo pseudo-imperial units? Uh, even though, of course, actual Imperial, like the British people never used our units. They used a different set of things called Imperial. So it's confusing and stupid, uh, as many things are.
+
+[42:27] Anyway, uh for the rest of this conversation, we're gonna refer to a fifth. This is 750. You good? Good. All right.
+
+[42:35] Uh this led to a tangential conversation among us if there was an easier way to accomplish this uh beyond doing a little over four shots in five minutes per person, uh shots being an ounce, right? Listen, let's think about this way. A 750 bottle contains uh 12.5 full cocktails with a two-ounce pour of liquor in them, right? 12.5 60 mil pores. That's what's in a 750 bottle.
+
+[42:58] So that's how you have to think about this consumption. So you're looking at trying to consume among five uh five people, I think, right? Among five people, you're trying to consume 12.5 uh drinks, 12.5, 60 mil pores in five minutes. That's about two and a half full-size cocktails a piece in five minutes. All right.
+
+[43:16] That's what you're looking at, uh, just in terms of numbers. Uh one of the suggestions was uh an attempt to make extremely high-proof jello shots. I argue that since alcohol inhibits gel uh gelatinization, this would be terribly wouldn't be helpful to be doing a crazy amount of jello, or at best have some fairly loos, uh terribly tasting uh jello. Anyway, regardless, I thought it was uh an interesting academic idea. It seems like gel-in and methyl cellulose would not don't use methyl cell, uh, have a higher tolerance to alcohol than uh gel and I experience using either of those.
+
+[43:44] J both gel and agar can go up to, I have done 20%. So you can do 20% uh ABV, and you know, you have to add more of it, right? But you can do 20% ABV, and what you do is you have to make uh the water solution, you hydrate the gum in that, and then you stir in the stuff because you can't boil alcohol. It boils at too low a temperature to hydrate either the jet gel or the agar. So you have to hydrate it and then warm the the alcohol just enough to not preset the stuff.
+
+[44:16] This is why agar is easier sometimes to do, but I've done it with gel and too and put it down. So at 20%, right, you're looking at uh 1.5 uh 1.5 liters of gel of uh of gelatin of j of goop, right? And among five people, that's like uh 300 mils of jello. But you're gonna be choking that jello down, and I think it's gonna get rather uh difficult. Uh a standard daiquiri as like standard spec dacquery is about 15% alcohol, so only a little bit less.
+
+[44:47] And so even though you have to drink uh 300 mils, uh, sorry, 400 mils instead of 300 mils, it's a lot easier, I think, to consume two and a half daiquiries in uh in five minutes than trying to choke down a bunch of unpleasantly flavored, uh high-proof uh like you know, 20 ABV jello stuff. So and it's gonna be a hell of a lot easier. What do you think? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[45:13] But I don't recommend. Yeah. I don't recommend. Yeah. I don't think.
+
+[45:18] I don't recommend. Uh all right. Kevin, uh Kevin Young wrote in, you know, from Noma, our friend, our buddy, uh was on the air, brought me that sweet, sweet pork scraper, which I haven't used yet. I need to use it. I but I I I'll soon.
+
+[45:32] Anyway, uh, so going back, we haven't heard more information. He uh he's make they're making a stock with Conte, which is, you know, Gruyere similar. Are you uh are you hardcore on Gruyere Conte or like which one you go for? I mean, I bet you are. I like Conte a lot.
+
+[45:48] Uh but they're they're both great cheeses. Okay. I love them both. But yeah, if they were side by side, I'd probably go for the Conte first. Which is the one that lost its that we can fake call it, is it Grier that lost one of them lost its you know, legal protection here?
+
+[46:00] Yeah. Anyway. Uh so making a stock, but then wants to use the spence, right? And is wondering how to adjust the texture, what to do. And I had asked to do a dehydest, dehydration test on it to let me know what the actual moisture content of it was.
+
+[46:14] But I'm just going to tell you the best article I have ever read on the subject of stretchy cheese, like seriously, good article, is dairy pipeline. That's the name of the publication, Dairy Pipeline, sweet. Uh, how the cheese making process influences melt and stretch. And it's just a fantastic article. And like, you know, I'm not gonna right now like highlight all of this stuff, but it goes through it goes through like step by step, like um many things, calcium phosphate and the casein structure and how the amount of available calcium phosphate at any given time and the pH at any given time affects melt and stretch along with fat and with moisture.
+
+[46:56] And what's really interesting about it is that they talk about how adjusting the pH later doesn't necessarily bring meltability where you where you think it's going to bring it. And like uh like here's some short snippets, right? So if you have a um if you have low acid, right, a high pH, the calcium stays very highly bonded with the uh with the casein, and it makes for an unmeltable structure. Or if you go way too acidic and you strip all the calcium out of it, then it also becomes unmeltable again. So very high pH, low pH cheeses don't don't melt well.
+
+[47:36] If you uh do if you if you have your acid too high at the beginning, right, when you're making the cheese, then it leaches the calcium out because it's been replaced by hydro leaches the calcium out. Now that the calcium's been leached out, when you s when you set the cheese, am I getting it backwards? When you set the cheese, even if the pH goes back to where you want it, it won't melt right because you there's not there's not enough calcium left in it, calcium phosphate left in it to do what you need to do. I might be getting it backwards, but read the article, right? I'm not gonna go into nitty nitty nitty gritty, but just read the article because it'll do a better job of explaining it than I can on the air off the top of my head.
+
+[48:13] Um all right, but go check it out. And then Kevin, get us some more information, especially after you read that article, it's freaking good. Because all the the standard cheeses that we use that don't melt, right? Like uh the bread cheese that I made during the pandemic, the Eustilopia, however you pronounce it, and the or queso para fruit, all of these are low acid cheeses. So they're like renovated at like a fairly high pH.
+
+[48:40] Uh and because of that, they have so uh, you know, they they won't melt, right? Um I love those things. You like those things? Case of par for yeah? Yeah.
+
+[48:50] You like that you ever have that, Joe? What about you guys, Jack and Queen? Do you ever do queso para fruit? No. No.
+
+[48:56] Oh my god. Similar, similar to like a halumi, right? That doesn't melt. Similar to Halloumi, but a lot less expensive, right? If you get queso par free air, you can get like three times as much as you can for the price, same price as Halloumi.
+
+[49:08] Is that from Cyprus? That one? Halloumi? No, I know halloumi's from Greece, but no, but no, the one you're just talking about. No, it's like there's one from Cyprus that's a lot similar to Halumi, that's even better.
+
+[49:18] Really? Uh well, I'm sure. But cake queso para frère is just like, you know, Latin American. Oh. And it comes in the same block that you would buy like queso fresco in, queso, not queso fresco, queso blanco.
+
+[49:29] Like, you know, like it's comes in that same block, but it's uh it doesn't melt. What about those rope cheeses? Like the um the one that's like it it's like bound, like it looks like um Oaxaca string cheese? It's kind of like that, but from uh braided cheese. It's uh no braided cheese, it's like Hungarian or Romanian, and it looks like it's like the it looks like um I I can only refer to it like uh what it looks like is like like like the plumbing tape that has the paper that's wrapped around inside it.
+
+[49:56] I mean, that's how they do the Oaxacan cheese. That's why they're cheaper. Which I love, but you know, that's you know, also Oaxaca street cheese is amazing. Yeah, to me, the best tasting string cheese game I've ever had is in Turkey. Turkish shrink cheese is ridiculous.
+
+[50:08] That's the one that yeah, I love that one. I love that one. Yeah, yeah. Um but anyway, queso para frie is like, you know, a much cheaper. It's not the same as Halloumi.
+
+[50:18] Don't please don't get mad at me. Or as bread cheese, not the same, but it's especially not like bread cheese, because bread cheese is kind of pre-cooked. But uh you guys have you you've got you guys have both done Halumi before, right? Yeah. No?
+
+[50:33] I feel like green mustard. Oh my god. This is going back. I'm bringing it back, people to the mochi. It doesn't really melt.
+
+[50:39] Like, no, it doesn't, but it gets an amazing texture when it's warm. But then when you let it cool off, it's not as good. So you've got to grill it. And you put a little fig on it. And you eat it right away.
+
+[50:49] You can grill it, you can pan it, it can get a crispy surface, and the inside gets great, but when it warms up, it's sad. And that's this is how I got I finally got back to the mochi because to me they're a similar problem. Is that like everybody is Halloumi also considered squeak cheese? Or is there a squeak? I don't want to chill.
+
+[51:10] Squeak is a big thing on curds. Oh, okay. And like all that stuff's related, but I used to have to know the chemistry of squeak, and that's a different article, which I can look up as somebody. Chemistry of squeak's an interesting one, uh with the with the curds. Uh Phil Stan writes in and uh wants to have Nastasi put earmuffs because it's a carbonation question, but luckily she is not listening.
+
+[51:32] So they go. Hey, uh those are my notes. Uh yeah, but for Anastasia, right? Or for you to have your mouths. You you you also can't tolerate?
+
+[51:40] No, no, for no for nostalgia. Okay. What you have here. Oh, perfect. All right.
+
+[51:44] Uh I've acquired an uh EC soda siphon uh soda. Remember, there's soda siphons which have a tiny neck and a tube that feeds down, hence siphon. That's why they're called siphons, which is why you shouldn't really call a whipped cream canister a siphon because it does not contain a siphon. A siphon is the long tube that feeds down that lets you uh draw from the bottom instead of from the top of the device. So think three stooges, soda siphon, right?
+
+[52:11] Yeah. So uh anyway, I was wondering some practical or creative uses for it could be for context. I run the bar program at an Italian restaurant. Thanks. I don't know, man.
+
+[52:20] I don't use those things because the neck is so small, and I don't use them for seltzer. Here's what I would say. If you're gonna use it to dispense, if you're gonna do like old soda fountain stuff, or there's lots of drinks that actually you don't need the bubbles to persist. You just need something with bubbles for nucleation sites. Ramos Ginfiz is a classic example of a drink where you add seltzer before you shake, and the seltzer is there to provide nucleation sites to the cream base for when you shake to create a better texture.
+
+[52:49] And I've seen people do the experiment, seltzer before, seltzer afterwards, and no question you should put the seltzer in before. So for that, you could do the nyg nyg with this with the soda siphon. What I would do is start with carbonated water. Because it's not that much money compared to the cylinders that you're going to be using. Pour carbonated water in cold, make everything cold, pour carbonated water into the siphon or whatever, carbonated whatever.
+
+[53:14] Let it off gas for a couple of seconds to drive the air out of the siphon, shut it, charge it. Now it's at high pressure, and you don't care the fact that the siphon is not very good at dispensing carbonated beverages without losing the bubbles because you're looking to instantly nucleate and then use it for things like Ramos's. That's the only thing I can think of. You know what I mean? You ever been to Sammy's Roman Romanian?
+
+[53:36] No, but they closed now. They just reopened. Where? Not the same place. I don't believe it's the same place the uh the waiters uh banded together to bring it back.
+
+[53:45] But I remember coming to New York in the 80s and having a seltzer splash off at Sammy's Romanian, blasting each other with the seltzer. It was amazing. That is a good use. Oh, yeah, it was awesome. Did it get in the schmaltz?
+
+[53:57] Everywhere. Stanton Street Dave. It's on Stanton. I want you know, I never went to the original, and like for my whole life, people are like, the schmaltz, the schmaltz, the schmaltz, the schmaltz, and like, you know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[54:06] The food is delicious there. Yeah? Delicious. Do they have the uh whatever they're called? Grabitzes, the little chicken cracklins, too, or no?
+
+[54:13] Yeah, they have them on the table. What are those called? Gribinis? Grib something. I got some photos from back in the day.
+
+[54:20] We've had many a birthday. So we need to all go, and you can tell me whether it's as good as the old. I would love to. It's a great festive time to go. You drink a whole, you drink a fifth of vodka.
+
+[54:31] Uh-huh. Because the vodka is frozen into the pail that like the cheese or the cream cheese comes in. It's awesome. Maybe we do it so much. So rugged as that.
+
+[54:39] Cooking issues, Sammy's remaining. All right. And you can let me know. You can let me know. Uh Alexander writes in, I'm wondering if there's any way to uh account for the known alcohol level when measuring the amount of sugar in a solution.
+
+[54:49] As an example, I have a solution that I know is about 10% ABV and has sugar in it. I don't know how much it's possible to calculate from a hydrometer uh specific gravity reading. Uh is currently reading uh 990, that's 0.990. But in general a general solution is more what I'm after. Okay, Alexander, yes and no.
+
+[55:05] No, you can't. Yes, you can, right? Uh your particular case is very low. If your number is correct, you didn't give me a temperature. You need to know the exact temperature it was when you re got the SG reading for me to give you an uh an exact uh number.
+
+[55:19] But assuming that your SG reading was taken at 20 degrees Celsius, uh, very low sugar, like 13.63 grams per uh per liter, which is the equivalent of like 1.4 bricks worth of sugar, 1.37 bricks, very low sugar in your example. Uh the yes is is that uh it's no one you can look up a program called Alco Dense LQ, you get I think 13 or free runs and then it's $300 and or $200 and you have to buy it, and then you can plug it in and it'll get it. Or I have actually done all the work and I have my own calculators for it. I'm going to make a website when I release a second version of liquid intelligence that has the calculators for all of that stuff for adding sugar to booze, for calculating the ABV when you're done, including contraction, for figuring out what the ABV is using a refract using the sugar using a refractometer in something with alcohol, all of that. And I think maybe before I do that, we'll put it on the Patreon for the Patreon people to have before it goes on the general uh the general like liquid intelligence website.
+
+[56:21] Uh but anyway, so there. If you give me the exact numbers, I can also look it up for you before that happens. Lionel Hutz, on the Andy Ricker episode a while back, he mentioned a Thai style of serving beer called uh B A1, basically bottles of beer tossed in a barrel of salt water and ice, and the barrel's agitated until the beers get cold enough to turn slushy. I want to try to do this for an upcoming barbecue. Some folks on the Discord have offered some suggestions, but I wanted to get your perspective uh on the best way to accomplish this without the agitating barrel that is commonly used.
+
+[56:47] Ideally, be something like a cooler that I have outside with drinks ready for folks as we grab them. Would this be possible? I'm curious. Is the sole purpose of the agitation just to keep set up uh speed for chilling? Yes.
+
+[56:57] So the agitation does two things. It agitates the liquid with the ice and salt, one, and it agitates gently agitates the liquid in the beer, right? Because both things are stagnant and you need good uh heat transfer throughout everything you want to get it to equilibrium. So you without movement of the cans, you cannot mimic the actual that movement. But what you can do is get an aquarium pump, a salt water aquarium pump.
+
+[57:23] They run on DC, uh, they can pump salt water, and they can also pump stuff that's very cold. And then you just put that pump on on one side of your cooler and then lift the tube up and put it on the other side, pull from one at the bottom and dump on the other side at the top, and you'll get a constant movement of that, and at least the actual liquid that you're chilling with will all be very cold, but you won't be able to get the same agitation from the can. But a lot of it's gonna, you're gonna get a lot of the way through uh doing that. All right, so in the two minutes that I have left, I got a new technique. You ready for it?
+
+[57:54] Ready. Okay. So I uh don't I sift when I grind my when I mill my flour, I sift it, right? Uh but I really don't like sifting. And I get about 87% yield typically off sifting.
+
+[58:07] And the way it works is that when you mill something, the outside of the wheat tends to uh break off in bigger pieces, right, as opposed to the inside. And that's what allows for that separation. Uh but I was like, what if I was looking up rice milling machines? Now rice milling is different. In rice milling, you tumble the rice inside of a basket, and that sloughs off the outside layer, leaving the thing intact, right?
+
+[58:30] So what I did is I bought on Amazon the Michiba Kitchen uh MBRC52. I bought the black. I would get the 52 white because man, the black really the stuff shows up on it. And I was testing instead of polishing rice, it does a great job polishing rice, by the way. I made some semi-brown, uh, choice.
+
+[58:48] Uh, but uh I've been using it on wheat. And so uh what I found is is that I can get very good loaf, as good a loaf volume as I used to get with sifting by just purling off the outside because it turns off that the very outside of the brand layer is what really does most of the inhibition of the of the puff of uh of you know that that kind of inhibits the rise of uh of a wheat bread. And so I'm now uh I can get 93.6% yield off of my wheat, get similar um similar kind of loaves to the loaves I was getting when I was only getting like 87% yield, and I don't have to sift. I just throw it in, I hit white rice twice. It doesn't go at the same speed, it basically just operates on speed, but I just hit it twice, and uh for white rice, I do 500 grams at a at a pop.
+
+[59:35] I can do more, but this is my test, right? I've done 500 grams at a pop, and boom. So I'm going sift-free by using this. Uh, and I highly recommend you guys look at it. I'll be talking more about it in the future as I do more and more tests.
+
+[59:48] But this new kind of pearl off the outside, then mill, I'm loving it because I hate sifting cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arlon, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, Newsdale Studios, joined as usual with John. How are you doing, John? Doing great. Yeah, I got Joe Hazen rocking the panels.
+
+[0:22] What's up, Joe? Hey, hey, hey, hey. Good to see you everyone. Yeah, yeah. I'm rocking my Edwards Aged Meat uh swag hat.
+
+[0:28] You like that? Yeah, it's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He hasn't been on the show yet, unfortunately, because uh I had the COVID during that. Uh over in the upper upper left, we got Quinn.
+
+[0:37] How you doing? Hey, I'm doing all right. Yeah, yeah. And then moving on down the coast there, we got uh Jackie Molecules. How you doing?
+
+[0:46] You? Yeah. Good. And yeah, yeah. And last but certainly not least, Nastasia the Hammer Lopez.
+
+[0:53] How you doing, Nastasia? Yeah. Uh all right. So this is the last show we're gonna have for uh a couple of weeks, right? Because uh next week I'm at Tales of the Cocktail, and then the week after that I'm in Alaska.
+
+[1:07] But guess get this. For Patreon folks, uh, I'm gonna try to visit Quinn in Vancouver Island. It'll be the first time in Vancouver Island because after Tales of the Cocktail, I'm going to Alaska to see my son Dax, who's selling vapes and luggages to cruise ships. If you happen to be on a cruise ship in the in in this summer in Juneau, Alaska, please go by. I don't remember the name of the shop, but it's right there by the cruise ships.
+
+[1:29] And just, you know, if you have to buy a vape, buy it from Dax. That's all I'm saying. Because he gets a he gets a bonus at the end of the year. You know what I mean? Uh that's all.
+
+[1:38] Um anyway, I'm gonna try to stop. Uh and Quinn, should we do a little like uh thing for the Patreon folk if I if I make it there or what? Oh, yeah, we'll do we'll do assembling. Yeah, yeah. All right.
+
+[1:49] And uh John, you want to tell them how to uh get on that Patreon there? Patreon.com slash cooking issues. There's a couple different membership levels. I believe even a free one. Um there's a lot of great perks to signing up.
+
+[2:00] You get access to the Discord. Uh you get discounts with people that we work with, like Kitchen Arts and Letters, um, Edwards H. Meads, Glassfin, a whole bunch of other great things and prioritize answer or getting your questions answered. I mean, just a whole bunch of awesome stuff. So check it out.
+
+[2:15] Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Yeah, by the way, Tales of the Cocktail, the crappy thing about Tales of the Cocktail is that my actual McGill is on Tuesday right during, like, you know, actually right after we would be recording. So I can't, otherwise I could call in and we could do uh we could do a live from Tales of the Cocktail with some bar weasels. We can get some, you know, all the many of the great bar weasels are at Tales of the Cocktail, but uh, you know. You were gonna say worst thing about Tales of the Cocktail is being in New Orleans in mid July.
+
+[2:44] I might as well is there any difference between New York City and New Orleans anymore? I guess not at this point. Yeah, that's totally fair. It's just one giant gross malarial swamp. You know what I mean?
+
+[2:53] It's like uh like it's a nightmare. Like really I mean, New York has never been a great weather town. No one's like, New York, New York weather. No one no one's ever said that. You know what I mean?
+
+[3:05] We get like even in the good old days, we got what, like four good days a year, maybe ten. This has been really soupy lately, I guess. New Orleans equivalent, but New Orleans had a speed for a little bit for for that. You mean like for the rest of history? Yeah, I guess.
+
+[3:22] I don't know. There was I don't know, it's just nasty here. Oh, I should stop complaining. Most, you know. The nice thing about New York is is it's so dense, so densely populated, and we have so many individual air conditioners running that the streets are like 10 degrees hotter than they need to be.
+
+[3:38] Most of the pavement's black. We don't have as as much tree covering as we should, and we run a crap ton of individual air air conditioners all day. Just pumping, pumping, pumping heat into this hellhole. And it just makes it awesome. You know what I mean?
+
+[3:44] Absolutely. It's just freaking sweet. Yeah. You know? Yep.
+
+[3:55] Not to mention like all. Yeah. Right? Right? You know, honestly, someday they will, someday they will like straighten this place out, like get some funding to rewire all of the buildings and to put uh vent systems into individual apartments so that there can be like a a single air conditioner on the top of the building that's like five times more efficient and like you know, uh uh puts the heat directly up instead of right into your face as you're walking past it, but you know, and then we can go electric on our freaking cooking, all that someday.
+
+[4:33] Probably when I'm dead, right? Probably. Yeah. We want to put those ACs really high up, so the hot air is like creates a whole new layer in the atmosphere. I mean, you're gonna do it anyway.
+
+[4:42] It's gonna go up. But the thing is you create so much less, right? You're only running what you need. Hello? And it's like, you know, much more.
+
+[4:50] Oh, does anyone think we lost them? Oh, they we m you must have muted the uh the outgoing signal to them. Uh yeah, we're good. We're good. Okay.
+
+[4:59] Okay. What? No, yeah, we hear. They can't hear us. Oh no.
+
+[5:08] Now I can't hear them anymore. Yeah, I'll just go off. I think all the internet just dropped. Oh no, so how can I hear that? Everyone's let's move on.
+
+[5:19] All right. Everyone can hear everyone. If you would like to make a call, please hang up and try again. And we're back for round two of cooking issues. We're gonna try it again after the internet turned off because it's so damn hot on the east coast of the United States of America.
+
+[6:03] We've got John, Joe, Jack, Quinn, and Nastasia in the house. How you guys doing? Fantastic. Yeah. That was terrific.
+
+[6:14] So what happened was I can't, I I haven't looked at the internet yet, so I can't necessarily say it was someone in Canada, but the last time this happened, it was someone in Canada flipped a switch. Well, I'm just saying, the last time this happened, somebody in Canada flipped a switch and blew everything up. Wasn't wasn't someone down here. That's all I'm saying. That's all.
+
+[6:34] That's all. That's all. But that's not you. It's it was like Toronto last time. But uh apparently there was problems with the internet on the uh on a lot of the eastern uh seaboards, so who knows?
+
+[6:45] Who knows? Who knows? Again, really making me uh wish I didn't move. Hey Yeah, well, you know, I I you know I have loved New York. But uh, you know, whatever.
+
+[7:01] Whatever, man. I'll s I'll see uh I'll see what I what uh the great state of Alaska uh does for me. So uh where we left off before was uh what have you guys done this week? What's going on? Oh man, I went to the Hollywood Bowl twice.
+
+[7:14] All right, all right. Uh well who do you see? What was going on? Or do you just go when it was empty and like eat hot dogs? No, no, no.
+
+[7:24] We've we saw Beck the first time and then the music of John Williams with the Philharmonic the second time. And the Philharmonic actually played with Beck the first time as well. Well, okay, hold on. The John Williams he he's alive, right? But like a billion.
+
+[7:38] Is that true? He's sick, yeah. He couldn't he couldn't be there. He usually conducts it. It's the thing they do every year.
+
+[7:44] So there's a guest conductor. But get this the guest conductor kept introducing all these movies, and they did some movies that weren't even films that John Williams scored, which is weird. But anyway, he keeps introducing them and spoiling the plot. He'd be like, So in the final scene. And then, you know, the first time there's kind of like a weird silence in the crowd.
+
+[8:05] The second time the entire crowd erupts in a boo when he spoils the plot. You mean well, in case someone doesn't know the Death Star blows up? No, no, this was like uh a film called Laura or something, and he's like, I'm not even I'm not gonna spoil it because I'm not a bad person. I won't even do that on the show today. But he's like, Yeah, in the final scene when you find out blank, you know.
+
+[8:27] I I like how you're like the least important people to spoil it for are cooking issues listeners are like, not even on the show. Like in normal conversation with a regular like, you know, jerk, I would never spoil it. And not even to you fools. But uh not even here, no. Yeah.
+
+[8:42] But like soup that low. So you weren't worried about him like giving up things that, like, you know, if you haven't seen it, you wouldn't be at the at the at the show. No. No, it wasn't like he gave away how Indiana Jones ends, you know. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[8:55] He didn't do Indiana Jones, did he? Did he? Charlie Williams? Yeah, he didn't. Oh my god.
+
+[9:00] Like, is there anybody? I mean, look, I should be rooting for the same name guy, you know, David Arnold or whatever, right? You know, and he's won an Oscar and all that. So, you know, the Dave Arnolds, other than, you know, some of us are doing okay. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[9:14] But uh, I mean, who's better? Who's better than John Williams at movie scores? I mean, even Prokofiev has done movie scores. I'm gonna say that John Williams is better. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[9:25] I mean, first of all, like uh, how long do you think it's gonna be before some of those movie scores like Star Wars and whatnot are seen as being like legitimate music in the same vein as any other composer like from all time? That stuff's great. I think it kind of is. I mean, you know, bam, bam, bam, bam, bab, bam, bam, bab, bam. I mean, like, uh, like whenever you need like evil theme music, I think of it like uh John Williams stuff.
+
+[9:49] Yeah, yeah. Although, you know what's confusing is that the head of uh Askap BMI, his name is very close to John Williams and is also a composer and is the person who wrote the music for Emma Daughter's jug band Christmas, is also alive and is in his like late 80s. Someone look up his name. It's super close. So I always get them confused.
+
+[10:09] They're entirely different people. The person who is the or was the head of uh Askat BMI, he was uh, you might recognize him from Smoking in the Bandit as Little Enos. Yeah, yeah. Songwriter, yeah. Uh interestingly, did not write the theme song for Smoking the Bandit, which is Jerry Reed's Eastbound and Down, great tune.
+
+[10:31] Yeah, loaded up in trucking. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I don't know if you realize this, but a whole movie. This is what they used to do in the 70s.
+
+[10:36] I don't think it is. Willie Wonka, right? The original Charlie and Chocolate Factory, right, was uh was meant to shill out uh chocolate bars, right? It was uh an advertising scheme, right? Movies are so expensive now that unless you're huge like Barbie, you can't do a movie as an advertising scheme.
+
+[10:51] You know what I mean? Yeah. Smoking the Bandit, the entire plot for those that haven't seen it, is that uh um Jerry Reed and and Burt Reynolds are driving from uh uh wherever they started in uh Florida, I guess, to Texarkana to pick up a load of cores, put it course beer, put it on a truck and get it back to wherever they were in Florida, uh Atlanta, they're Atlanta, they're thirsty in Atlanta and there's beer in Texarkana, right? So they have to make it back within a certain length of time to get the money that Big Enos and Little Enus, I believe Burdette were gonna pay them. And that's the whole movie is them trying to get a truckload of beer within 24 hours back to uh Atlanta from Texarcana.
+
+[11:38] That's it. That's the whole movie. Yeah, anyway. Solid. Solid.
+
+[11:42] I mean, you know, it's right up there with Star Wars. Yep, classic. Indiana Jones. What else? What else?
+
+[11:48] What else uh what else did they play yesterday that was good? Or was it no way? When was that one? Is that the first one or the second one you saw? Oh, that was the second show we saw.
+
+[11:55] Yeah, yeah. But what else do they do? Like, what else do I know that I don't even know he did? Oh, the uh they did the Sunday night football theme. Whoa, whoa, whoa, he wrote that?
+
+[12:05] I thought that was Hank Williams Jr. Are you ready for some football? Wait, Monday night? Oh, yeah. Sunday.
+
+[12:10] Oh. I mean, are you ready for some football? Do you know? I mean, I love that Hank Williams Jr. song.
+
+[12:18] Not that I'm a Hank Williams Jr. fan. Anyway, so what's that what how does the Sunday night football go? It's like uh it's orchestral, you know, it's like the NFL films music, basically. Um more like that.
+
+[12:29] Uh and then also the um Meet the Press theme and the Olympics theme. Oh. I mean, come on, man. I mean, come on. I know.
+
+[12:37] Right? Come on. Yeah, yeah. And uh Jurassic Park. Oh, man.
+
+[12:43] Yeah. How was uh how is Beck? Stars. Amazing. Yeah.
+
+[12:49] Really amazing. Yeah. Did he did heck? Did he play Loser or not? Yeah, he did.
+
+[12:55] Really? Closed the Close with Loser. So so he's because he used to hate that song, right? But now he's I guess he realizes that you know you have to play it because you know you have to. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[13:07] I mean, it was great. He played with the Philharmonic, so it's a pretty special uh arrangement. So what is he the Moody Blues now? Remember when the Moody Blues used to do that? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[13:16] Yeah. Nights in White Satin. And they had the entire London Philharmonic. Yeah. I mean, that's a weird move for a rock band to play, do.
+
+[13:23] Did he play Devil's Haircut? What did the orchestra do for that? What did the Philharmonic do during Devil's Haircut? Uh they play they played a really good arrangement, actually. Yeah, okay.
+
+[13:31] What did the what did the uh the orchestra play during MTV makes me want to smoke crack? He did not play that. What? Shockingly. He didn't play MTV makes me want to smoke crack?
+
+[13:43] Is it because no one watches MTV anymore? So no one even knows what they're talking about? That was a good song though. Didn't he didn't do Sound and Vision, did he? No.
+
+[13:55] All right. Did you eat anything? Did he eat anything? Dude, have you eaten anything in the last week that is interesting to talk about to our theoretically food related uh podcast uh listeners? At the Hollywood Bowl, there's really good wine.
+
+[14:10] Really? For real. Yeah. Huh? Yeah.
+
+[14:13] Well w what do you have to do? Yeah, it's like it's like a convenience store. They have, you know, like uh like a bodega style fridge with just bottles of wine and beer. It's it's interesting. I've never seen anything like it in a venue.
+
+[14:24] Huh. And how much more do they charge than a regular McGill for it? Like twice as much? It's no, it's actually affordable. Like I'd say they have the bottle of wine that I like that's usually like twenty-three dollars, and it was probably like thirty-one there.
+
+[14:39] And did they have uh for for Jack, did they have the yellow tail merlot that he loves so much? No, they didn't. But disappointment. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[14:51] And when the internet cut us off, uh John was telling us about his veal balls. Yes, the bitter ball. No, braised veal held together with a roux and the reduced bracing sauce and then deep fried. It's very tasty. Yeah, nutmeg.
+
+[15:06] Uh you like uh you like a you like uh like a like a like a wintry, like a nutmeggy spice in your in your meat products. Yes, not like love love, but again, trying to like tap into the Belgian kind of way of doing things. It's like brown figer, right? Like like like those kinds of sausages, like veal, like liverware stuff has like a little bit of that, like a little bit of a Yeah, yeah. There was like a huge spice boom after the Crusades, um, you know, in northern France and in Belgium, and that's when like the Oh my god, the cookies.
+
+[15:37] The speculous speculus cookies started coming out. You know what those are? Delicious. Yeah, they're great. Yeah, love it.
+
+[15:45] Love the speculous spread too. Um Trader Joe's? I don't know if I've had their speculous spread. It was like a biscoff one. That's the one I'm familiar with.
+
+[15:53] They just chum it up, make it into a goop. Yeah, yeah. And how could it be bad? Oh, I love those Bizcoffs. Yeah, exactly.
+
+[16:00] Uh. And uh Quinn, uh, I know you're you're itching. What do you got? Well, for the uh for the patrons, uh last week I released another recipe calculator. This one is my chocolate gelato calculator.
+
+[16:18] So if you need to uh make some gelato to beat the heat, there you go. Let me ask you a question. What needs to be calculated about a chocolate gelato other than multiply the recipe by X amount so people know what they're looking to download? Right, you well, you can use You can multiply it by one, you can multiply it by two, three, you can. But you can use chocolate with theoretically any sugar or fat percentage.
+
+[16:55] Uh also a liquid with any sugar or fat percentage, and it will rebalance the recipe. I see. Do you have anything in it that when they choose something that you hate, it goes you gotta work on that. Gotta get that, gotta get that in there. You know, in theory, you can also use water as a liquid.
+
+[17:17] Yeah. Do you ever do the coconut milk as liquid? I used to love uh well, I guess not gelato then. I used to love all of those chocolate sorbets with coconut milk. What was the name of that awesome sorbet company that they still exist, but this their sorbet were so good.
+
+[17:30] It was a woman's name and then sorbet. And her chocolate sorbet with coconut milk was just great. She used a super deep dark chocolate, and it was just hyper chocolate because there wasn't a lot of fat to cover up the kind of chocolate flavor. Man, it was good. What the heck was her name?
+
+[17:44] So good. Anyway, uh yeah, check out Quinn's calculator if in your patron. If not, boop. You know what I mean? Yes.
+
+[17:59] At some point. Yeah. Yeah. At some point. Who knows what that point is.
+
+[18:03] By the way, speaking of Patreon stuff, I have so much information that's gonna go into the new book, like tables uh of things. Uh I'm wondering if I should put just put it on the if I put it on the maybe I'll release it pre-release X stuff on the Patreon because what my plan is is that like um a lot of the stuff for the book is more calculator friendly. You know, because it's like, you know, you have to, you're gonna plug in your bricks, you're gonna plug in your ABV, or you're gonna plug in your bricks, and you're gonna plug in your density and you're gonna get out sugar in the liquor and alcohol, or you're gonna add, you know, sugar and you're gonna get an ABV out, etc. etc. Uh so I'm eventually gonna put those on, I think uh a website for the book, but um maybe we put on Patreon first.
+
+[18:48] Oh, we have a caller. Caller, you're on the air. How's it going? Hey, how's it going? Not bad.
+
+[18:56] Hey, uh, against your guys' advisory, I started uh listening to uh the old backlog starting from episode one, and I gotta tell you, there's still a lot of a lot of really relevant information. I'm still taking notes and learning all kinds of stuff. So kudos to you for keeping it up for as long as you have. Oh, I appreciate it. We were ten years or eleven or twelve or thirteen years smarter back then.
+
+[19:17] So, you know, at a certain point, you know, you peek, you peek out. There's a there's like a, you know, it's like a bell curve, and I'm definitely going down that slide. I'm just kidding, I'm still kidding. Still learning, still getting better every day. Yeah.
+
+[19:28] Yeah, right, exactly. I'm in the era where uh Nastas question per caller rule. So uh I've got a couple of questions if that's allowed at this point, but I understand you can cut me off. It's not yeah. All right, well, let's start.
+
+[19:45] Let's see where we get to. Sure. So I have uh a sort of Detroit style pizza concept that I'm working on building out, and I have some a technical question, then a and then a few non-food related but still technical questions. Okay. Um in order to maintain consistency, I've found that it's great to bake the bread portion of the pizza ahead of time, pretty much like baking a focaccia, and then you just top it with your toppings, melt the cheese, lay all the sauce on top, call it good.
+
+[20:16] Um in the few times that I have tried to pre-bake these crusts, they shrink considerably. Like uh in a in a 12 by 17 inch pan, it loses like an inch to an inch and a half on each side. Just the dough. Just the dough. Yeah.
+
+[20:35] So it comes out of the oven, baked out big, and then shrinks down that much. It's it comes out of the oven shrunk. Oh, it comes out of the oven shrunk. Huh? And I and I don't know if it's because so I'm I'm baking it the same way I normally do when it has toppings on it, which is at 450 degrees in the convection oven.
+
+[20:55] Um when you do when you do it with the toppings, the cheese makes it stick to the side of the pan and it doesn't shrink when you have the toppings on. Exactly. I I think I think the weight of the cheese keeps it from shrinking, and then you get that perfect rectangle with a nice cheese crust around the outside. And so I'm trying to figure out if there's a way, other than baking loaves bigger than the pans and chopping, like cutting them out, like an insert. I hate that.
+
+[21:17] Also, I bet you it's getting I bet you it's getting thicker, right? Uh it doesn't bake as evenly. Yeah. So I'm I'm guessing like it's it's it it kind of like mounds in the middle and it's thinner on the edges. And there was also some weird like bubbling happening.
+
+[21:32] How soon though there was some like how soon after you uh how soon after you get it into the pan are you baking it. Um well that's the th the the formula that I'm using for my dough um is pretty user-friendly. Typically what I do is I will uh so it's a straight dough method. You don't even do a bulk ferment, you you make it, you portion it, um, you put it uh let it ferment overnight, put it in the pan, squish it into shape, and then at that point I normally put the cheese on top, and then it's pretty much ready to go. And you can leave it in their fridge.
+
+[22:04] Like I'll like I'll put it, I'll I'll do the stretching in the cheese phase, like maybe four to five hours in advance. And then when it's time for service, I literally can take them out of the cooler and throw them in the oven, and I get the product that I get. And it's it's pretty solid how user-friendly it is. Here's here here's here's what I'm thinking. Tell me whether you think this makes sense based on what you're telling me.
+
+[22:22] So typically, you know, I haven't done Detroit in a in a while, but I you know I went through a phase, right? And so typically, and a lot of the recipes will tell you this, especially like if you look at the videos of the people in Detroit doing it, is they'll do an uh they'll do an initial stretch out. And then if you remember, like like one of the things about Detroit Pizza, for those of you that don't know, is uh you oil the pan a little bit, right? And then you put the you push the dough in and you go. Oiling the pan makes it extremely slippery.
+
+[22:47] And so what I think is happening is is that um the dough needs to kind of relax, which is why like I do two or three like I do my initial pat down, get it like you know, almost all the way out to the ridge, and then I wait a couple of minutes and then I have to stretch it again like a couple of times to get it to relax in its open position and then rise up a little bit, right? Because then you proof it with the crap on it, some of it. I I do a like a proof with the crap on, and then it stays the size of the pan. So um my question is is that like, you know, if you're not getting that stretch back time, like when you throw it into the oven, as it expands up, it's gonna s suck in. You know what I mean?
+
+[23:29] Because it's still it's it's you know, it hasn't had time to like it hasn't had time to kind of blast out and weaken that gluten up. You're still in the in the phase where you've just stretched it and a lot. Right. It needs to be relaxed a little bit. So I'm wondering if you built in, and it wouldn't I don't think it would go that again, you know, against the flow if you built in like a 20 minute hold before you bake it out, let it just like let it settle into itself a little bit, puff up a little bit more before you bake it.
+
+[23:56] Have you like have you tried that? I hadn't, I as you were saying that I I it it occurred to me that that's probably what's happening because I think that the few times I've tested it, I've like stretched it and then pretty much thrown it straight into the oven. Because I'm also, you know, this this is for taking it off site. This is normally uh, I mean, the the one catering event that I did, it was for 150 people, and I've only got six of those pans because the pans cost like 80 bucks. Yeah.
+
+[24:19] And uh I'm I'm not busy enough to justify spending thousand thousands of dollars on the big pans. But uh I think that that might be it. That might be the difference is that usually when I make them, the smaller ones, they have several hours of just sitting. Yeah. Uh slacking, whereas the test ones that I did did not have that.
+
+[24:37] Because I had to do, you know, 18, I had to make like 18 pizzas pretty much back to back to back. And the pans were even still warm when I was like throwing the second round, second and third round in there. So and and mentally, if you think about it, it's the only kind of pizza that you bake that well, typically, other than if you're doing like a pizza hut style, that you bake on such an oily surface. So it's so slippery. Right.
+
+[24:57] You know what I mean? Yeah. Exactly. So yeah, that'll that'll make sense. That's brilliant.
+
+[25:02] All right, what was your other technical question? Okay, so when I get this thing scaled up, um, I eventually basically want to put a steel based baker's deck oven on the back of a trailer. Um if it was covered but not necessarily enclosed, would that be a bad idea? Uh well, what do you mean? Like why?
+
+[25:23] Like what are you worried about? It like uh uh whether like just uh d degradation from elements, like if it's raining or if it's sitting in a a garage somewhere collecting dust or something like that, I'd probably get a cover for it or something like that. But yeah, I think if you cover it and if you season it up, right? If you season it up so that it, you know, has like a although you can't, it's hot as hell. You can't season that thing.
+
+[25:43] It's gonna be hot as hell. This is for regular pizza. I think you'll be fine. Honestly, I think you're gonna be okay. Oh, you're gonna be.
+
+[25:58] Yeah, I think it's kind of like that. But look, let me put to you this way uh what's it called? The Cajun Cajun fryer people make their uh their grills out of regular steel and they paint the outside of it with that high heat uh barbecue paint. Uh which is pretty good. Although I think the car stuff's better.
+
+[26:16] I think the engine enamel is better than the barbecue stuff, and it comes in cooler colors. So if the outside of it's covered with that engine enamel and it's got the um it's got the uh, you know, like a like a whatever they call a tonne cover for an oven is, you know what I mean? Like I think you'll be you'll be in pretty decent shape. Um, obviously any anything you can coat in stainless, you should, but yeah, I was gonna say, I would I would I think I would say the the better question would be are are there are ovens pretty okay if it's not necessar specifically designed to go outside, is it okay if it's used outside, I guess? Or do they do they make ovens that are specifically designed to be put on a trailer and like drug around?
+
+[26:55] Pro they I'm sure they do. I don't know that I've never researched it, but I'm sure they do. I have hooked up inside equipment outside, and it can be a little bit dicey, especially if they're not if they're gas-based and you have to switch everything to pro propane, right? Which is kind of a hassle because you have to change all the orifices, you have to change like all of the stuff. And you can s and uh the other problem if you're firing off a propane is that if you're using a a high BTU uh item, 20-pound tanks are no longer sufficient.
+
+[27:24] So the way you can get around a 20-pound tank, yeah, while you have a bigger tank. This is this is this is this is my equivalent of a food truck. Like I'm gonna be strapping hundred-pound tanks to it. Oh, all right, you're fine. You're fine.
+
+[27:34] Because there is a way there is a way to use 20 pounders, but it's not friendly. You have to buy a tank heater, you know what I mean, to keep the tank hot. Because the problem is when you withdraw propane too fast out of a tank, the tank cools down and then your your delivery drops, you go below the regulator threshold, you flame out. You know what I mean? I've I I I've actually, and I don't know if you if you're friends with your like propane uh dealer or whatever, but I actually had a guy, because I had this problem when I would do uh shrimp boils.
+
+[28:04] I've got the 80,000 BTU thing, and I only have a 35-five pound tank, but they were able to make me a manifold so that I could strap basically uh strap two thirty-five pound propane tanks together and it operates as one sixty or seventy-pound protein. Right. That's cool. No, yeah. Or the other thing to look at if you can't do that and you need to do it, like because I've run I've run commercial like 50 pound deep fryers off of 20 pound tanks, because you can do it for a couple of hours if that's what you need, is uh you know, little tank heater, like a little like silicone wraparound like the springs tank tank heater, and you set it like you know, just at like you know, eighty ninety F boom, and it keeps your tank rocking the entire time until the sucker trains.
+
+[28:45] Anyway. Amazing. Awesome. One more one more question. Uh, Steam Stasi's gonna murder the deck oven.
+
+[28:51] Yeah, yeah. I know, right? I'll bring I'll bring if if I'm uh I called last year and we talked about Iowa sweet corn, and I've been contemplating if I'm crazy enough to bring a bag of sweet corn and some other goodies, and I'll bring some some cheese and champagne and hopefully that will appease. Cheese and shelly both of those things. We've got some tasty cheeses here.
+
+[29:08] Anyway, um so before I get the deck oven, I have to do all of this basically with like electrical things. Um and so I need some generators. Um and I guess what would be your best bet insights on how to handle that? So I've got currently I have a a uh half-size convection oven that pulls two hundred and forty watts. It's a two forty.
+
+[29:30] Mm-hmm. You know, you know who's an expert in this actually? Nastasia the hammer locale is because she actually had to run a food truck off of a generator. Oh nice. Well, I'm happy to get answers from whoever I get it from.
+
+[29:43] So I've got this this this one oven, and then I have a steam table that I hold my sauces on that pulls fifteen hundred watts, and then a hot like a pizza box, one of those display rotating things that also pulls about fifteen hundred watts. Would it be better to get like three smaller ones or just go for like one giant ten thousand watt generator? What do you do, Stas? M uh my advice is not to do a food truck. No, really.
+
+[30:12] I mean I would I would never ever do it again. And I know that there's websites that rent out spaces like pop up spaces that are far more efficient. I I just I have no advice on food truck because it is the worst experien one of the worst experiences of my life. But you won't even tell 'em what generator to use though? We had a gener it just kept it uh all of our things that we were running off of it kept burning out.
+
+[30:39] Like there was no it was it was awful. It was absolutely awful. Like I don't remember what kind of generator what we had, but we had the most powerful one and it was not enough. I uh yeah I don't have a lot of experiences but I would have definitely have a backup because I know Nastasia said hers went out all the time and I would get one that's quiet. I would get one that's four stroke like a hundred none that are quiet.
+
+[30:58] There are none that are quiet. The ones that advertise that they're quiet. Okay. They make they make boxes for them that you can like cover up to help mitigate that. But um so so so I hear what you're saying, Nastasia here's where I'm coming from.
+
+[31:10] M my usual up in for the last like four or five years I've been I've done like kind of private chefy stuff for small groups of people for a lot of money. And it's gone great, but I am to a point where I want to hire somebody to help me with these things and I need some busy work for them. And this particular business model is basically uh achievable by high school age kids. And so this is kind of my casting a wider net to get more of the populace sort of attracted and and have something fun and it's it's a fun model. It's really delicious product, but that's kind of where I'm coming from with doing this.
+
+[31:44] But one thing I will say one thing I will say, I gotta go to this thing is that if you're going like you can't turn completely unskilled folk loose on stu on weird equipment setups that you've cobbled together because when they break, it's totally broken, and you can't just like reboot it because it's been built by you. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? That's that's that's very good. I mean, I there would be like one skilled person there maybe that to help maintain all that stuff, and the rest of them is live like this pizza is like put it in the oven when the cheese is brown, it's done.
+
+[32:15] Like, you know, it's it's really, really easy. But uh I hear you on the food truck, and that's that's why I don't want to get a self-contained food truck because I have buddies that have food trucks, and and like every other week there's something going wrong. Uh there's so many different working parts on a food truck that you need for it to function, and uh that's why I kind of want to build it myself and have it be all sort of modular, if you will. Uh, or at least that's sort of what my approach is. Yeah, well, let us know how it works out.
+
+[32:43] Right on, appreciate it. Thank you. No worries. Uh Dave Kwikkowski writes in at one of my restaurants, we've been using Heston Blumenthal's method for fishing chips, which involves a soda siphon. So for those that don't know, he puts the batter in a soda siphon, puts it in the fridge to let it hydrate for a long time.
+
+[32:57] It's like vodka and rice and all this other stuff and beer and blah, blah, blah. CO2, not nitrous, but like puts it into a pan, puts the you know, the fillet into it, bop, bop, bop, like they do in England town, and then they throw it into the oil and bop blah blah, right? Okay. Uh, that's how it works. The result is great, but we have to refill the siphons.
+
+[33:15] Uh, they have four liter bottles multiple times through service, and it's a messy pain. I was thinking about getting a kegerator and filling a couple of corny kegs with the batter, having CO2 tank just for that. We will set up a separate tank of uh cleaner to flush the lines at the end of the night. Will this work? Will the batter hold other issues I'm not thinking of?
+
+[33:31] A couple of things. One, uh soda siphons, it it might, it might work. You know, one of the problems is that uh those soda things go, who the question is now if you read Blumenthal's recipe, he's very careful about trying to keep the CO2 in the batter so that the batter itself foams, right? But also the nozzle on that soda siphon is crap for keeping bubbles in seltzer. That's why it's really only good for three stooge marathons, right?
+
+[33:57] Because it like opens up and like really sprays the stuff out and gets rid of the stuff. So you need a way to get it out of the keg that has the same spray foaming characteristics as the uh ISI does. The other thing you need to do before you do anything, is you need to realize, try to get the corny kegs that have the removable safety valve in the lid, because uh the ones that are built in are built in at a lower pressure than you would like, and nothing sucks more than having the safety go. The safety goes way before it's set at a way lower pressure than the actual working pressure of the keg. And so you need to know what that pressure is so you do not exceed it.
+
+[34:33] You do not want to exceed that because then it stays open and vents your whole thing out. It's a mess, it's a nightmare. Uh the other thing is that uh it a batter that contains stuff like rice flour is gonna separate and needs to be agitated in between, uh, and you really want to kind of agitate it and shake it up. So either have someone shake it up or you can build a stirring unit into one of these keg a rators, it's possible to do, but then that's a whole nother freaking thing that you have to take care of that you hadn't uh thought about. That good answer?
+
+[34:59] Yeah. All right. Uh shift drinks right writes in uh for liquor above 40% uh ABV, but not high enough proof for autoistino. What Auto Hustino is is that for very high liquors like 151, which is I guess what is that, 75.5% and above, if you add fruit juice uh to it, the alcohol level is so high that the pectin immediately destabilizes and drops out. So you don't have to worry about adding enzymes and stuff like that.
+
+[35:24] That's what is being referred to. Should water be added during the blending step, or should the process blend with Pectanex rest and add water before spinning? I'm not sure why you're adding water. I never add water to uh a liquor. So shift drink, tell me exactly what it is.
+
+[35:39] Like just give me like the actual ingredients you're using. Oh, the ABV limit for the spinzall is only because I'm worried about you catching on fire. If the it, you know, it's like it's it's it's based on flash point. As long as the flash point is as long as as long as you can light a match near it and it doesn't like ignite. So you're saying they could liquor count for the moisture in their fruit or juice as dilution as well.
+
+[36:11] Yeah, it doesn't matter. The only there there's no there's no chemical incompatibility with any part of the cerezol and alcohol. The only spinzole. There's no problem the chemical incompatibility problem. The problem is is that I don't want someone to put a hundred percent uh alcohol into the the thing and create, you know, alcohol vapor that then ignites and blows someone's face off.
+
+[36:34] That's all. You know what I mean? I don't even remember what I wrote as the limit. I probably chose whatever the flash point was at like 90 Fahrenheit. That's probably what I chose.
+
+[36:44] I believe it's 40%. No, you can go above 40% at 90 Fahrenheit. Is that what I wrote? 40% in the in the document? It's just a safety issue for flash points.
+
+[36:53] That's all it is. Wenrik writes in: Does the rice polisher that I mentioned on the show require a voltage transformer? Uh no. So uh what I talked about is I I no longer sift my flour. I've run some more tests, but I don't have time to talk about it because we only have four and a half minutes because of the all the stuff that happened.
+
+[37:08] But I can talk about that later the next time that we have a show, and I'll have more tests to have run by that point. But uh what the rice polisher does is that instead of sifting, I actually use uh what's meant to polish rice to abrade the outer layer of bran off, including the hairs on wheat, which is the stuff that has the biggest detriment on loaf volume instead of sifting. So I no longer sift anymore. The only units you that I can buy are from Japan, right? They have an American style plug, which I guess Japan also uses, but they're from Japan.
+
+[37:36] And Japan uses a voltage similar to ours, but not the same frequency. And so really the question isn't do you need a voltage transformer, is do you need a frequency transformer? And no, you do not. I've been running mine and it's fine. But what you do need is Google Translate, because the manual is only in Japanese.
+
+[37:54] So you need to just take a picture with your phone and use Google Translate. And, you know, I put little pieces of tape on so I can remember what all the buttons say in uh in English because you know, whatever. I'm too stupid to remember what the uh what the kanji is. Uh Matt from Mystic writes in, I'd like to hear uh more from Dave about uh my use of the combustion uh thermometer. I like mine so far, but I find uh the finish time can be highly variable, and I find that to be a little bit frustrating.
+
+[38:19] Maybe I have Chris Young on again to talk about uh just talk about the thermo without any tangents. Um I actually love the predictive stuff on I have two of them with me right now. I don't know where the camera I have two of them with me right now because uh turns out Chris Young, I texted Chris Young yesterday, and because I'm going to Tales of the Cocktail, and we're gonna use combustion thermometers in my uh seminar with Mike Capoferi uh at you know at Tails. And I tested this because my you know one of the things about carbonation is when you carbonate the temperature rises, right? The act of putting CO2 into solution actually raises the temperature.
+
+[38:54] So to prove this during my bar training, I put a thermometer in and I shook it with the thermometer, and it's the only time I've ever had a bottle break because did I tell this, did I say this last week? Did I mention this? I thought you said it to a mare. Uh anyway. So yeah, so like, so I was like, yo, shake it harder.
+
+[39:11] What the hell are you doing? Shake it harder. Because if you don't shake it hard enough, you don't have enough surface area, right? And so I take the bottle from the person who is uh training and I shook it harder, and the thermometer went boom and hit the bottom of the of the fully inflated bottle and punctured it and started spraying stuff everywhere. It was kind of nuts.
+
+[39:27] Anyway, so um I haven't had a problem with their predictive stuff. I'm wondering when you say listen, write back in and let me know exactly what you mean, uh Matt, about all over the place. In other words, are you saying that it is incorrect, or is it just that you get different results that you expect to be the same every time, right? Because I don't really understand. Do you understand?
+
+[39:47] I don't really understand. All right. B Dunn writes in, I'm a big fan of cachaça, both as a zipper and incorporated into cocktails. I have two bottles of jambu cachaca from trips to Brazil, uh, and family will brought them back. Mostly I've used these as a party trick for the numbing power of the liquor.
+
+[40:00] Uh how do you think about creating drinks with numbing products like jambu or sichuan pepper? What kinds of flavors are accentuated by numbing and uh what are diminished? How do you make drinks that aren't just party tricks and that people actually want more than one of? All right, listen. I don't I don't use first of all, jamboo here is Sichuan buttons.
+
+[40:17] It's uh the uh Amelia Olaricia, which is an aster from South America. Do not confuse it with wax jambu, which is a fruit, right? Which has the awesome uh Latin name of Sizzy Gium Samargense. But anyway, but my point is is that uh very different. Wax jambu, crunchy fruit, uh jambu that you're talking about, Sichuan button.
+
+[40:39] I have an issue with it because it's just rides over the top of uh everything. I will say this I have run a bunch of tests and let me know what you think. If you have a little bit of that, regular wines taste like orange wines. Regular white wines to me taste like orange wines after and McGee says he thinks it's because I'm the rancidity in uh the Sichuan oils that I'm using is what's causing that. But if you have the jambu, let me know whether a combination of that, and then taste it, wait a second, and while it's still in your mind, taste white wine and tell me whether or not it tastes more like orange wine to you, whether it enhances uh like your perception of oxidation in the wine.
+
+[41:16] Monty writes in uh what is involved in making a hard candy like mince with xylitol? I'm getting tired of the flavors and the mints I buy. Well, you can use xylitol and just kind of uh get like a gum paste, which is what a lot of people do, and then mix like the powder, mix it with as little water as possible along with the flavorings and spread it out. By the way, you know what's really fun? I haven't done it in a long time, buying gum base.
+
+[41:36] You ever buy gum base? No. You buy gum base. I think Modern Spanish might have it. If not, you can get it on Amazon, whatever.
+
+[41:40] You nuke it, right? And it gets uh flexible. You mix in all the flavorings, and then you put like like cornstarch or powdered sugar down and you roll it back out and you cut it into strips. So much fun. And I put powdered acid in it.
+
+[41:53] Oh, it's fantastic. You can also roll it into pastiles, you can do anything. It's amazing. So, anyway, so those uh uh with that are molded that way. Uh, or if you really want to be fancy, get yourself a pelleting machine, but then, you know, John, tell them about how hard a pelleting machine is.
+
+[42:08] Miserable. Miserable. So you're better off making Altoid style things just by using like gum paste and putting it into molds and then popping it out. I hope that helps, Mondi. I'll see you when I get back in a couple of weeks after I go to Tales of the Cocktail.
+
+[42:14] My bar should be open by then, so go to Bar Contra. We should be, I think they're gonna open even before I leave. Can you believe that? They're gonna open while I'm gone. They're gonna open for one day and then I'm gonna be gone for two weeks.
+
+[42:28] It makes me drive me crazy. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Marlon, host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, New York City, Rockefeller Center, New Stan Studios. Uh joined today, not with John. John's not in the studio today, unfortunately. Couldn't be here, but uh our good man uh Joe Hazen's rocking the panels.
+
+[0:25] How you doing? I'm doing very, very well. Great to see you after a couple weeks, hiatus. I know it, I know it. And uh Nastasia the Hammer Lopez also unfortunately under the weather, but I'm glad that we have in Los Angeles, I assume, Jackie Molecules.
+
+[0:39] How you doing? Everything good? I'm great. It's been a while, yeah. Yeah, and then of course, in the upper left, our man Quinn.
+
+[0:46] How you doing? I'm good. Too bad, we don't have anything to talk about, eh? Yeah. All right, so in the couple of weeks that uh I've been gone.
+
+[0:56] By the way, if you're listening on uh Patreon, you can call in your questions to 917-4101507. That's 917-410-1507. Uh and uh Quinn, you want to tell them a little something about Patreon before we get going? Sure, yeah. Patreon.com slash cooking issues.
+
+[1:14] If you join any of the uh paid memberships, you get uh early access to the podcast episodes, you get to join the Discord, which is a great community where we all talk about food and all sorts of crazy things. You get prioritized answers for your questions on the show. And partnerships and deals like uh Kitchen Arts and Letters, uh Edward Day's Meets, etc. etc. Glad don't forget glass fan.
+
+[1:49] They can order their glass fan off there. Glass van. Yeah, and uh and we promise not to light you on fire on purpose. Right? You know.
+
+[1:57] Uh if you're not a member of the Patreon, no promises. Yeah, no promises. Yeah. You know? Uh yeah.
+
+[2:04] So listen, uh, I've had a boat ton of stuff in the past couple of weeks. For instance, uh, since I was last on air with you guys, uh, I opened a bar. I went to Tales of the Uh, I went to uh Tales of the Cocktail. Uh I went to Alaska and Seattle, but where else did I go, Quinn? Up upper left.
+
+[2:32] Upper left. I took my first ever trip to the upper upper left in Vancouver Island. So let's we'll start with that. And then we'll we'll talk uh then we'll talk with uh the molecules over what he's done, and then I'll go for the rest of the garbage until I uh and then we'll we'll hit some questions. So uh why don't you talk about the upper the upper upper left, Quinn?
+
+[2:51] Well, yeah, so basically uh you were heading to Alaska to see Dax. Yeah. And uh you had what, 48 hours like uh of a layover in Seattle, basically. Yeah, well, so uh my son Dax is working in Juneau, uh Alaska. So Juneau, for those of you that don't know, is not part of the main chunk of Alaska.
+
+[3:12] It's in the panhandle, but like, you know, it it kind of droops down. So it's not a panhandle like Oklahoma, Oklahoma. It droops down next to Canada, right? And uh there are no roads in and out of Juneau. It's only has like, I think like 40 miles of highway or something very very small like that.
+
+[3:29] I drove to the end of it, by the way. You know what's at the end of the highway in Juneau? Uh a burnt-out car full of bullet holes. Swear to God. Uh, you know, I feel I feel like every highway should have at the end of it a burnt out car full of bullet holes.
+
+[3:42] By the way, every abandoned vehicle that I saw in Alaska was full of bullet holes, just for record. I saw more than two. So it's like, I'm just saying, if you leave your vehicle unattended in Alaska too long, bullet holes. Anyway, uh, so the thing about it is that this town, which is only 30,000 people strong, Juno small, even though it's the capital, has going into it every day five cruise ships, seven days a week, five giant cruise ships with thousands of people on them, who are all there for only one day. So Dax, he has a job there over the summer selling to those cruise ships, the crew members, not the tourists, the crew members.
+
+[4:22] And so I think you know, we were the tourists, I think, who spent the most time ever in Juneau. So it's weird. That's why we were going. I'll talk more about that later, but I will say this. Because uh the like a large portion of the crew of these ships is like Filipino, not Filipino American, like from the Philippines, right?
+
+[4:40] Uh, they have a decent like amount of Filipino food uh in in Juneau. And uh so Dax searches out and finds like the old favorite that we used to joke about you know, mang's all purpose sauce, which I've talked about on the show before, which is the sauce for a lichone, the roasted pig. And so Dax and I always make a joke of what's it good for? It's all purpose, it's good for everything. So he asked me for a shrimp marinade recipe like two days ago, and I gave him my my typical one.
+
+[5:06] So normally when I make uh like a shrimp marinade, I use uh like an alternate version of a like a uh uh a tandor, like a tandoor mix, you know, that I would use for chicken, which is like yogurt, lemon, garlic, sugar, salt, uh parsley, uh you know, oil, uh, you know, like you know, olive or whatever, and then you know, herbs of your choice, like cumin or whatever. And so I told him, you know, if you're gonna he was gonna do it a pants I was like omit the yogurt he's like oh dad instead I got a bottle of mang's all purpose sauce and I use that for the for the shrimp marinade and I was like how was it and he said he this is literally what he texts back to me no other answer he goes is marinating shrimp a purpose I was like I was like yeah good point fair fair and uh he said actually like you know kidding aside he said it was delicious so anyway so in between going to Tales of the Cocktail I had to go to Juneau and the only way to get to Juneau reasonably from New Orleans is to make a stop in Seattle and for those of you that don't know Seattle is only like a two hour drive from Vancouver which is the which is the point of embarkation to go to the upper upper left Vancouver Island. So I get in a car I get my take my cousin's car when I land in Seattle immediately drive to the Canadian border at which point they say what are you doing? Let me tell you this if you are going to visit someone in Vanc on Vancouver Island for one day make up a lie. Don't tell them the truth don't tell them it I'm like uh they're like where are you going?
+
+[6:34] I'm like I'm driving to uh to go to the ferry for Vancouver Island. How long are you there? One day overnight and they're like where are you from New York City? They're like you went from New York City to Vancouver Island for one day I'm like well I I'm I'm visiting you know I'm visiting a friend of mine co-work I work with him he's like you work with him you've met him well not personally I haven't met him in person I'm going to visit him in person and meanwhile like they're like this is a completely unbelievable story. So I get the full, I get the full-on pull over to the side of the road, car disassembled.
+
+[7:07] Like uh I missed the ferry the the whole thing. So just lie. Be like, hey, I I I'm in Seattle. I was in Seattle for a weeks visiting my cousin. I'm going up to Vancouver to get a sushi dinner and I'm going, I'm going home.
+
+[7:19] Any lie. Do not tell them that you made a stopover specifically to visit someone on Vancouver Island for for an overnight. Crazy. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[7:29] Yeah. So I finally made it. And then what? You you you take Franklin. Well, yeah, you got there by what, around 9 p.m.
+
+[7:37] You know the last ferries. It's a nice ferry, by the way. It's a nice ferry. Yeah. It's a good ferry, right?
+
+[7:44] Two hours long. They have snacks. You can get she lacked on that thing if you wanted to. Like you get on that thing and all of a sudden it becomes a booze cruise. I mean, people are pounding on that thing on the way over on Vancouver Island.
+
+[7:55] Anyway, go ahead. Uh it actually probably worked out because we had a bunch of food prepped, and we were working on it pretty much until you ended up showing up. So, you know, the late time was uh a blessing in disguise. Yes, yeah. So then uh, you know, well, Quinn posted it, like, you know, what uh what they made over there, like the Dungeoness Crab and all the other things, but then he didn't ask, he didn't invite me to uh to what's it called?
+
+[8:26] To uh to to you know be with him on the post. So I I didn't get to post on it. Like idiot. Well, I thought you were away, so I was gonna do another post. All right, I only I only um I you know I kept behind a few things.
+
+[8:38] Yeah. So there's still other stuff to post. All right. All right. So anything anything you want to uh shout out from from that?
+
+[8:44] Oh, I finally got to taste Quinn's uh gelato. He gave me uh let's see, a Rainier Cherry, which by the way, Joe has some Rainier cherries. Uh and then uh and then one of your chocolates, but like a very dark, dark uh chocolate. You want to tell the story on those or no? I don't know.
+
+[8:59] Yeah, so yeah, we so the next morning we did tea and gelato and some fruit and stuff. So yeah, we did uh I had a rain or cherry surbe. I thought that turned out pretty good. Yeah, delicious. And then my standard water uh I mean chocolate gelato based on the calculator, water as the base liquid, and then a mixture of a hundred percent uh Peru origin dark chocolate and a maple sugar sort of medium dark chocolate.
+
+[9:36] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Delicious. Yeah. Um, and then uh but before I go on to the other crap, what about Jack, you got anything? Or Quinn, what what else what else do you want to say about the it was fun?
+
+[9:48] I was super happy to finally go and visit you in person. Uh we did a little we did a little steers all uh sorry, uh spinzall promo, which by the way, we really, you know, you should pre-order the next unit that's gonna come out. It's gonna be when's it gonna hit uh they're gonna ship it when? Like in like a like a couple of weeks. Shipping and yeah, shipping pretty soon in the next few weeks.
+
+[10:10] And then it's a month on the water. Again, yeah, a month or so, and then yeah, they're shipping and freight transport. But they are again available for pre-order uh at Marners Pantry. Or if you go right to spinzall.com, it will redirect you to the pre-order page. Right.
+
+[10:30] But if you want to be on like the first batch and get it in a reasonable amount of time, I highly suggest uh pre ordering it rather than waiting for it to like get in, make it in stock and and all of all of that other stuff. Especially, I don't know how many people are listening from uh like Asia or China, but if you pre-order it, you'll get it much faster because we won't hold any in in China unless we get pre-orders. So if we get a pre-orders from China, they will ship directly from China and you'll get them very quickly, but only if you pre-order. Uh would you say that's accurate, Quinn? Uh yep.
+
+[11:05] Yeah. Uh Jack, what do you got? Been been like a million years since we spoke. What do you got? It's been a million years.
+
+[11:11] I mean, nothing like that. I'm jealous that you got to go up there. But uh I did go south instead of up north to Ensenada for my girlfriend's birthday. We drove which it still blows my mind that you can be in Tijuana having street tacos in, you know, two hours from Los Angeles if you go by car. Yeah, but then you have you have to go through San Diego though.
+
+[11:34] I'm just kidding, I'm just messing around. Hardly, to be honest. It's uh yeah, hardly. But uh yeah, no, we we went to Ensenada and Valle Guadalupe. Um and let me tell you, man, the reputation for those fish tacos is uh is pretty real and and pretty but th they're they they lived up to the hype to that.
+
+[11:57] The place called Tacos El Phoenix Puesto, which um was an eater tip and it was very, very good. Little street side joint if you ever find yourself there. And then generally the the muscles I had in Ensenada were maybe some of the best I've ever had. Yeah. 'Cause up north, maybe we were discouraged from eating anything like that because of paralytic shellfish uh toxin.
+
+[12:20] So I guess it hasn't made it. Maybe that's only up north. Freed me. I didn't have any uh any muscles up there, but is that really a thing? I didn't do my research because I wasn't having it.
+
+[12:29] Oh yeah, reserved deer oysters that does go to. Oh, it's they were delicious, and I did not get paralytic shellfish poisoning, so there you have it. But I I don't know where I don't know where it is. Like I saw a bunch of warnings in in Juneau. Anyway, I don't know.
+
+[12:41] I don't I don't know anything about it. I didn't research it. I shouldn't have mentioned it. Uh how are the uh I hear I haven't been to Tijuana ever, right? Uh like I but I hear the food scene there is like blown up.
+
+[12:51] How was it? It's fine. I mean, we passed through Tawana pretty quick on this trip. Uh I have yet to find like the incredible, incredible food in Tawana outside of some some good street tacos. Some of them this is prime.
+
+[13:06] Someone used to write in to our Discord and tell us where where the magic is. Yeah, I haven't found like the real magic, I guess, in Tijuana. Um some incredible food in Valle. I mean, uh in Guadalupe, you know, but they've got like Michelin Star places. It's all a wine tourism there, which is not my favorite vibe, but uh we did have a really good sit down meal.
+
+[13:30] So what is your lack of what is your anti-vibe on a wine tour? Is it the people? Is it like that you hate seeing vineyard? Oh, okay, okay. So it's not that you hate seeing vineyards.
+
+[13:39] The people, and then like you go to the vineyard and and uh you don't want to be that guy that's like don't talk to me like I don't know anything about wine. You kind of just go through with the tour that they do, but it's always geared to somebody that you know I don't know. So you feel like you have to go through this whole mishigash that you've heard before just to get a sip of wine. We really you just want a sip of wine, you want a GTFO. Correct.
+
+[14:02] Yes. I walked in and I said, Do you have a venue? And they're like, Well, no, we do this, you know, a little tiny tour and tasting. And then of course they taste you on stuff that's like, you know, here's our most accessible thing ever that's not, you know, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[14:15] Right. And you can't be like, here's an extra five, or just give me the stuff. Right. Exactly. Yeah.
+
+[14:23] Hey, Jack, uh, I'm I'm correct if I'm wrong. When you you ate whale. Yeah. You didn't know what it is. I'm eating whale.
+
+[14:36] You had well, because I I was thinking like, well, I mean, uh Dave, did you have whale in Alaska? No, no, no, no. Well, first of all, uh so well off. We'll get whale off. We'll get a we'll get into it, but like I think it's like uh one of the super interesting things, like when I talk about it is like um, you know, uh in the area where I was, uh I we spent a day in Anchorage because there was a problem with the airplane, so we ended up going to Anchorage instead of going home.
+
+[15:04] But um in the Juneau area and in Gustavus, which is where Glacier Bay National U Park is, the vast majority of uh, you know, the the influence there is Klingit, right? Uh that's the you know the group of people. And uh, you know, they have like an amazing like group of foods that uh you know that they've made for forever, you know, but they're not available in stores, so you can't you can't get it, right? So like I can't, and then you know, rightfully so. Like like I can't go get uh a seagull egg omelet.
+
+[15:37] I spoke to a clingit. Gotta be invited. I guess. Right. I didn't know, but I spoke to a clingit guy in Glacier Bay National Park.
+
+[15:44] Uh, and you know, I was like, How are the seagull eggs? He's like, Oh, they're delicious. He's like, They're delicious. He he made brownies with them. He made brownies and he made like this fluffy omelet.
+
+[15:55] So, you know, it's like these like you know, original ingredients, like, you know, you can't go get seal grease at at a market. You know what I mean? You can't um you can't get any of that stuff. And so there's no way, there's no, like that, the cuisine is not intended like to showcase to outsiders. So there's no restaurants, there's no, you know, none of that, none of that culture is meant to be showcased to outsiders.
+
+[16:22] You know what I mean? So, you know, it's kind of um, you know, fumble, but rightfully so. Right. I mean, it's not for me. It's not for me to have.
+
+[16:30] You know what I mean? But uh, I still want a seagull egg. You know what I mean? Plus, like they're they're ri they're rancid creatures. The more seal seagull eggs you take, the better, in my opinion, right?
+
+[16:39] I mean, like, I don't hate a seagull, but like, you know, what do you think's better? An albatross or a seagull egg? Uh come on, albatross. You can't go be killing albatross. I wouldn't say killing them, but you take their eggs, what do you think?
+
+[16:49] I mean, it could be right, you're right. Yeah, you can't take an albatross egg. You know what else I saw? They have puffins over there, different from the puffins that we have over here, equally dumb looking. Puffins are a dumb looking bird.
+
+[17:02] You are you've eaten puffin? How is that? I heard puffin was good. Did you like it? I kind of liked it.
+
+[17:06] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they are dumb. When a puffin is flying, they look stupid. Don't make it like why?
+
+[17:14] Like, why does this bird here? And then like we all love the puffin. People they take trips or they're looking for puffins. Puffins have to nest way high up because they can't take off normally. They fall off the side of a cliff and finally get going before they hit the ground.
+
+[17:27] Dumb. Dumb. Oh, I'm I it's right. It's too close to my heart. They are very cute.
+
+[17:31] My son watches the program on Netflix, something about some puffins, and it's hilarious. It's very cute. It's cute. They got two different things. They look uh there's multiple.
+
+[17:40] Yeah, of course. Yeah. Well, they uh well in Alaska, they have two different kinds of puffin, right? Whereas in the Atlantic, I think we only have the one. I don't know.
+
+[17:47] I've only seen the one in the Atlantic. They are cute. I'm not saying death to puffins, the way I'm saying like death to geese. You know what I mean? Geese can go hang.
+
+[17:56] You know what I mean? By their long, long necks, as far as I'm concerned. They're rancid. Hate them. You know what I mean?
+
+[18:02] They're mean. I know that's not a popular opinion with many, but they're mean. Um, how do we get on that? Oh, I don't know. I don't know.
+
+[18:11] Anyway. Um, yeah, Dorvast of a whale. Oh, yeah. Just trying to bring it back on Jack, like uh slam him again for the whale. Yeah.
+
+[18:19] Had whale tacos down down south. But uh I stand behind my whale eating. By the way, there are in like there are a zillion whales. So like it like, you know, I've only looked at whales uh in the east, like uh the humpback whales you know, off of Cape Cod. But we took a whale thing, we did a whale thing in Juneau, and then I took a boat ride up in Glacier Bay, and it's just whale of Palooza up there.
+
+[18:42] Compare it, like we would see like seven, eight at a time. You know what I mean? In like from the boat. Uh and you know where you know where those guys hang out? You know where all of those whales are uh are are mating?
+
+[18:54] Hawaii. So like they're just doing round trip between two beautiful places like Alaska in the summer and freaking Hawaii in the uh in in the winter. Um, but if you want to go see him breach and do all that, you're better off going to see him in Hawaii. Well, there was a huge whale that did the ginormous jump during the Olympics in the surfing competition in Tahiti. Oh, yeah?
+
+[19:14] Oh my god, it was j was it was just the best thing. I think it was a woman just being barreled in Tahiti and this huge whale in the distance jumping. It was awesome. And it was uh and the whale was like, I win. I win.
+
+[19:26] I got the bigger wave. Yeah, you're you're a loser, I win. Uh hey, here's an interesting fact. When a whale breaches, when a humpback whale breaches, and I'm sure all whales, uh, when they breach uh and they hit the water again, skin cells slough off. And one one it's no one knows exactly why they breach other than just for show, but some people say it's to get rid of you know stuff on their skin.
+
+[19:46] But skin skill cells slough off. So the uh the whale scientists who work out of Glacier Bay National Park in Alaska, they uh drive the boat over to where the whale is just breached, and they take a net and they scoop the net through the through the water and they do DNA testing on it, and so they can do relational DNA tests between different whales because they they've been tracking the whale population in um Glacier Bay National Park for 40 years. And the scientists who I saw give a talk there, she's been doing it for like 37. And the person other was like like 20, 28 years they've been tracking it. So they know the family histories, because all whales, the fluke patterns on their whales on the fins, uh on the tail fins are unique, like fingerprints.
+
+[20:33] And they now have an AI database. So if you snap a picture of a whale, you can go on happy whale.com and it'll tell you what the whale is, like who the whale is, where it's been spotted, uh, like how many children they know it has, if it's a female, it's crazy. It's crazy what they you know. Uh anyway, um and the whale population is rebounding. It rebounded a lot, obviously, after they stopped whaling, but there was a Pacific heat wave um a number of years ago that you know completely nuked the uh whale population, but it's coming back.
+
+[21:00] Anyway, I did not eat any of those whales, thankfully. Uh but I'll tell you what, you know what, you know what? The time is in Alaska right now, and I didn't eat a lot of this, but the salmon runs come in, and I I've heard of salmon runs, right? Have you have any of you guys ever seen a real salmon run? No.
+
+[21:19] Holy person. Holy God. Oh, by the way, I don't forget the URL, but there is a there's a bear cam in Alaska, one of the famous waterfalls uh like south of uh Anchorage and one of the national parks south of Anchorage. The NPS has a uh a 24-7 camera on one of the famous falls that salmon go up and jump out of where the bears are sitting, you know, the same, there's a 24-7 webcam. You can just go watch it any time of day.
+
+[21:45] You're like, you know what? Let me see a bear like take down a salmon. You can go and look at it during the season. But all the different species of salmon, uh, you know, how many? You got your Chinooks, your aka King, your Kohos, your chum, um, and you know, a couple others, I'm not remembering.
+
+[22:01] They all have their own seasons when they go up and they have to go up this, they go go from salt water in, and they go upstream, spawn, and then they die. And uh apparently they taste delicious up until they hit fresh water, in which case they turn to garbage. I saw a couple of sock eyes, but the beach I went to called Eagle Beach outside of Juno. So you have to get in a car, no tourists there. When I was there, there was one other person there besides Jen and myself.
+
+[22:24] And uh we go out on the beach. I'm like, Eagle Beach, how many eagles? We have eagles, how many eagles can it be? Dozens of eagles chilling side by side with ravens, and they are so full from salmon that they they're not even eating them anymore. Like every once in a while, a raven just walks over and just picks the eye out of a dead salmon because it's like, hey, I'm a little hungry, I'm a little peckish, get a snack.
+
+[22:45] But like the beach littered, first of all, the beach littered, littered with uh dead salmon, littered, like like like like litter, big, big, big fish. And then when you go it in, what happens is it's low tide, there's a huge tide there, huge, like tw like in that location where I was something like 20 feet. And it can get it's the second highest, they have the second highest tides in this area of any place in the in the uh in the US, like you know, Bay of Fundy is a little higher. So in low tide, when tide is coming down, fish get kind of trapped. They can't go back out and they can't go upstream, and like so like zillions of them die every day doing this.
+
+[23:22] So, you know, I have videos that are blow your mind. Like it's just the water when you look at it is moving and it's just full of salmon, like trying to get some air and like flopping around, never seen anything like in my life. And those were still good to eat. I didn't have a permit, and I also wasn't gonna light a fire, but you could have just boom pulled one out and gone to town. Crazy, crazy stuff.
+
+[23:40] And like done like eagle, eagle, eagle, raven, raven, raven, nuts. But what I did eat, and I had some of it. I have like, you know, that they even kind of do fish sticks with salmon over there. I've never had fried, I've never had breaded fried salmon before. I'm not gonna say it's my favorite fish to bread and fry.
+
+[23:55] But they also have halibut. So the clingit, so halibut's a rather large flat fish, and the clingit uh developed over the centuries of really super ingenious halibut hook. And they still, you know, use it to this day. You know, a number and you know, a number of people still fish traditionally. And what's cool about this halibut hook, the original one is made with two different kinds of wood of two different densities that are uh whipped together with spruce roots that they soak in a special way such that they shrink and form an amazing bond uh to these two pieces of wood, so they're never gonna come apart again.
+
+[24:29] But that bond doesn't loosen when it goes back into salt water. So it's just like special technique that's been, you know, like handed down that w uses spruce roots to make this incredible, uh, incredible thing. And then the hook, which comes down and they float the whole thing off the ground. But the ingenious thing about this halibut hook is that it's designed, they put bait on it. So they slip a fish over the top.
+
+[24:50] They slip a smaller bait fish over the top of the hook. So it looks like a fish with a barb coming out of it that's floating like it's swimming in the ocean, right? And it's imagine like a Y shape almost. And the halibut, when it comes up to it, if the halibut is small, too small to take, the halibut can't get around the big hook. So it's not caught.
+
+[25:14] If the halibut is giant, which means that it's probably a female that you know can lay a bunch of eggs, right? It can spit the hook out. It takes the whole thing in its mouth, but what won't get the barb in its mouth. Only the halibuts that are the right size to catch without hosing the population, get hooked on the f on the hook. So everyone should go check out Klingit Halibut hooks because it's it's really cool.
+
+[25:38] It's cool. You know what I mean? It's a cool technology. Um anyway. Uh the other thing is I've never been in a coastal rainforest before.
+
+[25:45] And coastal rainforests, like, you know, Pacific Northwest coastal rainforest, I like it a lot. Picture Dagobah. Like, like it's these like like conifers with like giant amounts of moss hanging down. And you know, Quinn, you you live basically in in one of these, like, you know, right around. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[26:02] I'm I'm in the forest, right? I love, I mean, like, I don't know, it's high up there. Like, in terms of like stuff that's cool, it's high up there. It rains constantly. I like rain because you know what I hate the sun.
+
+[26:14] I hate the sun. So I I liked it. But uh, one of the things I did, if you go in the right time of year, which is right now, it is a berry paradise in the Alaskan uh temperate rainforest down by Juneau and even somewhat up in up in Anchorage. So they have like over 50 different kinds of berries there. And so I didn't get to taste, uh I didn't find on my on my hikes uh, you know, lingonberry, which they have growing there uh wild, uh bear berry, which uh I don't think it's out there now, uh, you know, bunch berries, cloud berries.
+
+[26:46] I had some cranberries, they weren't ripe yet. I didn't try. Apparently they have a very good current game. And I know uh Quinn's got a good current game. Uh, and they, you know, gooseberries.
+
+[26:54] They have something called a watermelon berry, I wish I had tried. But I'm gonna give you the power ranking of the berries that I did try. So uh I had the best berry of my life while I was there. Uh, and it's not commercially available at all. It's uh now that a number of different species are called thimbleberry, but the thimbleberry up there is rubis parvifloris.
+
+[27:14] And what's interesting about it is that it goes from being completely tasteless and like hard as a rock within a couple of days, because I hiked on this trail once, and then a week later I hiked on again. And the first day I hiked on it, they were useless, useless. And the next day, I the next time I hiked on it several days later, some of them had turned red. You want to wait for them to be fully ripe. When you pull them off, the reason they're called thimbleberries is like the hull stays on and the hull is huge.
+
+[27:44] So it looks like almost like a shower cap or mini shower cap or a thimble that you could put over your finger. But it's incredibly delicate. So like your hands get stained, you couldn't possibly sell them in a market. But the taste of this berry, it's not the best textured berry, but the best, the taste of this berry is like both fresh and cooked berry at the same time, like a cooked berry pie, super rich flavor with a lot of acid, but also that fresh berry hit. So that's that that one took it all because I'd never had a berry quite like that.
+
+[28:13] Then uh in Gustavus, where I went, I could tell if I have time, I'll talk a little more about Gustavus because it's a town of 650 people, which and I've never been hang out hung out in a town of 650 people that had no car access to it at all. You have to take a boat or a plane there as well. Um, but uh they it used to be called Strawberry Point, this area I was at, and the wild strawberries there, first of all, wild strawberries on our coast, especially like near beaches, like they taste fine, but they're like leathery and they are microscopic. They are tiny, a pain in the butt, and they're fine, right? Yule Gibbons waxed poetic about them.
+
+[28:51] But the wild strawberries uh in that area are ridiculous. First of all, they are they're not commercial strawberry size by any means, but they are much larger than the wild strawberries that we get, like much larger. Like their size is the size of the smallest ones that you get in a commercial pack here, right? And the taste will destroy you. So I've had the best strawberries I had previously had in my life were the um Mara Dubois uh strawberries from Harry's Berries in Los Angeles, which you can order and they're fantastically expensive and delicious because they have they just have this like flavor that you you can't describe it.
+
+[29:30] They're floral and delicious, and they have a high acidity and sugar. These have that flavor, and they're growing wild. You can just pick them, it's nuts. And even when they're not fully ripe, when they still have some white on them, they're uh still delicious. So next down in the berry power ranking that I had, the trailing raspberry, which also a lot of people call it the same thing, but this is uh Rubus uh Pedatus.
+
+[29:50] And what's weird about them is is that instead of looking like a regular raspberry, sometimes it has one, two, three, four. The max I saw was five little druplets. So they look like a raspberry that like all the other parts of it fell off of. But man, a good high-acid, sweet, uh delicious berry. Below that is a lot of people's favorite, the Nagoon berry, which is like a raspberry, also uh hull as and delicious, but you know, everyone, everyone's like, it's my favorite berry.
+
+[30:17] It's probably the favorite berry of these that you could actually harvest and make a jelly out of, because the rest of them you couldn't possibly uh do that to. Below that, the local blueberries, the vaccinium uh delicious, then uh salmon berry, which were also good, which are nice because they have some yellows. It's nice to get a yellow berry with actually some flavor and reds, but you gotta wait for them to get real dark. The ones that are going to turn dark, wait for them to get real dark for it and be delicious. And last but certainly not least, the black huckleberry.
+
+[30:43] So, like it was a berry extravaganza. I highly recommend you could go just for the berries to this area, just for the berries. Love berries. Uh, all right. Um, am I missing anything, Quinn?
+
+[30:56] I didn't talk about the fact that I opened a bar yet, huh? Uh, you know what's really stupid to open a bar when you're not there. Everyone's like, why aren't you here? What are you doing in Alaska? I'm like, hey, we would have lost our whole staff.
+
+[31:07] If we had waited for me to get back, right, after the construction was finally done, because it took forever to get the construction done, we did friends and family, and the day after friends and family, I got an airplane and got out. And then they opened uh while I was gone, which there was tails also. Yeah, but I mean I had been scheduled to go for tails for a whole year, right? So, like, you know, we knew it. So we were supposed to open the bar way before that, but we couldn't because of construction problems, right?
+
+[31:30] And then when we, you know, but we couldn't postpone it until I got back from these planned trips because if we postponed it, the staff had already given notice where they were before. And, you know, if you can't have people not have jobs for a long time, you know, it's not how that works. So we, you know, basically had to open. Uh so the bar is going, uh, I think well, we got 24 uh drinks. And if people look up the drinks we have, they can ask questions on it later, but you know, obviously too much to go into now.
+
+[31:59] At Tales of the Cocktail, I'll report that the uh State of the Cocktail Union is strong. Did a uh presentation uh with uh uh about frozen frozen drinks. Let me uh let me ask you a question on blender drinks. Let's just do a little test here, right? So blender drinks, as you know, I'm sure you're aware, uh, are vastly faster at chilling uh blenders or fastly faster at chilling a drink down with ice than shaking uh and much, much faster than stirring, more efficient.
+
+[32:29] So they reach what's you know called fundamentally equilibrium temperature, right? So if you you blend, it very quickly reaches the temperature it's going to be. And then if you keep the blender going, all you're doing is adding energy from the blades and melting more and heating it up. But you're not, and the temperature goes way below zero, much, much further uh, you know, much colder than with shaking, which also goes below zero. Stirring can go below zero, but very rarely does.
+
+[32:53] So here's my here's my question for you. So if you add, right? If you add more the same mix goes into a blender and you add more ice, you have one where you add, you know, let's say twice the amount of uh, you know, 1.4 to two point to two times the amount of ice as mix in one blender. And then right next to it, the same amount of mix with three times the ice as yeah as mix. Okay, you'll probably get this one right.
+
+[33:21] Which one's gonna be, which one's going to be more diluted? And what I mean diluted is is that a portion of the ice will melt, and that portion that's melted dilutes down the cocktail, right? And so then you have a mixture of diluted cocktail and ice. So which one do you think is going to be more diluted? In theory, I mean it depends on how what's what's the ratio of mix to ice.
+
+[33:44] I tell you, two, like let's say 1.4 to 2, and then the other one's three. 1.4 to 2 and 3. Yeah, which one's going to be which one's gonna be more diluted. More ice gets cold faster, it's gonna be less diluted, in theory. No, the one that is the one with more ice is more diluted.
+
+[34:07] But here's another thing. Which one is going to be colder? Is it a sense of being colder or l or staying colder longer? Well, there's there's that. We could talk about that later, but no, like literally the temperature it reaches in the blender before you pour it.
+
+[34:24] Which one's colder? More ice, no? More ice. More no. Oh.
+
+[34:30] Less ice, less ice. So here's what's weird about it. Uh, and it there's my explanation. There's a couple of things that, but I think the main key point here is that because the pieces of ice are so small, they equilibrate their temperature very, very quickly, very quickly. Uh and so what happens is is that as the ice goes below zero, any amount that you chill below zero also requires you to chill the mass of ice down, right?
+
+[34:57] So you're chilling not just your cocktail, you're also chilling the ice. And to chill the ice below zero, you need to melt more ice. So it's more diluted. That's why it's more diluted, right? But also, that's why it's not as cold, because it takes more uh and then because it's more diluted as it chills down, it can't chill any lower because it reaches its equilibrium temperature.
+
+[35:21] Its equilibrium temperature is um higher, right? Let you know, less cold than the one that's uh uh you know, the with less ice. So it's an interesting, interesting phenomena. So there is an optimal amount of ice to add to the blender, and if you add too much, your drink will not only be more diluted, uh as it's poured. I'm not talking about when it melts, I'm saying as poured, but will also not be as cold and therefore not last as long.
+
+[35:46] Anyway, uh weird facts. Weird facts. Um, all right. From I miss anything for you guys, are we good? Covered and smothered.
+
+[35:57] I think we're good. Oh, yeah, baby. Covered and smothered. Uh from Thomas Matthews. Is it possible to uh hydrate hydrocolloids such as gel and or agar in uh by the way, do you guys say agar or agar agar?
+
+[36:13] I think once is fine. Anything once is fine? Yeah. Yeah. Like if you if you say agar once, is anyone going to not understand what you said?
+
+[36:25] Besides Thomas Matthews. Yeah. I don't get that reference. Well, that's the person who asked the question. Yeah, but like the um like uh I don't know, like there's something kind of cool about two words together that don't need to be said twice.
+
+[36:38] Like period. Agar agar, peripiri, uh, pom pom. Peri period. I forgot about that one. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[36:46] So uh, but I I get you, I get you. Cause uh agar agar is like it sounds like uh like pizza pizza, you know what I mean? Like uh like little Caesar's pizza. You know? Um your email grammar would be like what?
+
+[36:59] Yeah, repeating two words? Yeah. It's not as it's not smart enough yet to like know hydrocolloids, right? It's kind of like uh the New York Times uh word puzzles where like they don't accept things like hydrocol, they don't accept the hydrocolloids. I'm like it's a real word, dingus.
+
+[37:13] Anyway, um so is it possible to hydrate hydrocolloids such as gel an or agar agar in a vacuum where the traditional hydration temperature would be lowered, or is this not possible because the heat transfer limitations in a vacuum? Um I want to hydrate hydrocolloids without destroying volatile aromatic compounds by using a powerful vacuum chamber or rotovap uh just fuzzy on the sides. I don't think changing the pressure is actually gonna change the solubility. Uh I don't I've never read anything or known uh a vacuum to change the solubility of a hydrocolloid. So I don't not sure what you're discussing.
+
+[37:47] Vacuum is useful for impregnating liquids into particles, right? Uh but and it's vacuum is also very useful for reducing air bubbles when you are uh hydrating hydrocolloids that have a tendency to foam, right? So vacuum blenders can be very nice for hydrating uh hydrocolloids without um so this is like what we used to do when we were making like you know, I mean, those rancid uh alginate beads, like that you always have to whip a lot of air into them. So if you can whip it, if you can if you can blend under vacuum, then you don't whip nearly as much air into it, so you don't have to wait as long, and it sucks sucking a vacuum on those things afterwards because it foams up, you know, methyl cell, a bunch of things like that. Um, but I don't know of any, I don't know of any effect of vacuum on the actual solubility.
+
+[38:39] So you I don't think that you're uh in fact, you can't hydrate certain hydrocolloids when you go up a mountain. So like if you live in aspen, right, it's hard to hydrate agar agar because everything boils at a lower temperature. So it becomes difficult to even get the stuff to hydrate, and that's the equivalent of a partial vacuum. So I don't know, I don't I don't I don't think it's gonna do what you want to do. Uh, what do you what do you think, Quinn?
+
+[39:06] Am I good on this? Yeah, I mean, I think what you gotta do is just figure out some other portion of your overall recipe that you can bring to the high temperature, bring it, chill it, and then add your delicate ingredients. Right. I mean, the issue with gel-an specifically that um it sets so agar, like, you know, as long as you as long as the average of the temperatures that you're mixing doesn't go below about 30 Celsius, the agar is not gonna pre-gelate and you'll be fine. So that's what I do it with lime juice, right?
+
+[39:42] So you take that you you boil fundamentally water with with agar, and then you take uh, you know, your other stuff at around room temperature or a little higher. If you take if you can take it to 30, then it's never going to, then you can just wait for the other stuff to cool. If you take the other stuff up to like 30, 32, you can wait for the the stuff you boiled to even cool a little bit and then whisk the stuff in, make sure it never drops below the setting temperature because it sets relatively quickly, then ice bath it and set it. Um with gel-an, depending on what you're doing, you can um you can sequester the gel-an such that uh you hydrate it in water and it won't set when it chills. And then you can mix in your product and then cause it to set.
+
+[40:32] But it's a little hinky. I don't know how you'd get it to set perfectly, but I think you know, Wiley could do it. Wiley could do that. Uh, because you know, he's a gel-an master, but um, yeah. Or you just pick different hydrocoloids.
+
+[40:47] Yeah, but I mean, like, it maybe depends. Like, you know, obviously, like I'm sure Thomas wants to go, sounds like he wants to go vegetarian because obviously gelatin works for this. You know, gelatin can be hydrated uh relatively low temperature and added, but um there are also room temperature agars that don't work well for things like freeze thaw, but I think can make a stable agar. Yeah. Uh caller.
+
+[41:11] We have a caller, a caller, you're on the air. Hey, what's up, gang? Josh from Norfolk. Hey, what's up? Um, I've got a fun problem.
+
+[41:20] Uh I have too many rainier cherries. That's a not uh there's no such problem. First of all, all right, fine, fine. Fine. By the way, for those of you who don't know, I mean it's we're talking to the the man with a spinzall tattoo, so yeah.
+
+[41:35] Uh and also, have you how much work have you done with uh with uh any different you did a presentation on uh alternative milks at at Kampari, right? For for for break breaking. Do any of them break as clear as milk? Milk milk? I mean, soy I bet would break as clear as milk, but do the other ones break as clear as milk?
+
+[41:58] Soy is great. Pretty high protein nut milks do well. Um I find that like what I kind of talked about in the class was making sure that you're maximalizing either acid or tannin. And I find that you can get anything to do to like be pretty clear as long as you're like pumping in enough stuff to make it break. Yeah.
+
+[42:14] Like coffee, for instance. We all know coffee breaks things like a mother. Yeah. Coffee's great. Like, I mean, tea works.
+
+[42:27] Um, I would say like second to milk milk. Um, coconut milk actually did really well for me. Yeah, but doesn't coconut milk always stay a little bit cloudy? Um not. All right.
+
+[42:41] Uh maybe a little bit. It was pretty good. And uh tastes better than coconut, not better. Tastes more coconut than coconut water. I've never loved coconut water.
+
+[42:50] I know that that's just me and that the whole world, Rihanna freaking loves it. Uh everyone loves it. I agree. Yeah. Um I mean, have you ever had it out of a fresh coconut?
+
+[43:00] Yeah. I did a drink with it once at Booker and Dax. We got the little mini Thai ones, and then we served it in the coconut it came out of, and then everyone was like, Dave, you're an idiot. What are we gonna buy a zillion of these damn coconuts? We can't reuse them.
+
+[43:12] Go go back home. I'll look fine. So we did it for like two days. But yeah, it's good. Yeah, it's not, it's just not, it's just not my flavor.
+
+[43:22] I think it's like it's just not my flavor. So I have had coconut waters that people are like, uh, this is great. I'm like, it's like cold brew coffee. I don't love it. You know what I mean?
+
+[43:30] So I'm not saying that it's not good. It's just not what I love. You know what I mean? I don't hate it. You know what I mean?
+
+[43:35] I don't love it. Anyway, uh so what was your uh what was your what was your question? I forgot. I I sidetracked you. My bad.
+
+[43:44] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm uh I'm abundant in reindeer cherries right now. And uh I'd like to use some of them to uh play around with some cocktail cherries, but I'm looking for some advice on how to best do that, but kind of like maintain their uh rainierness. Yeah. So once a long time ago, long, long time ago, I uh I did I had access to novozymes, pectin methylesterase, and I was able to like really firm up cherries, really firm them up.
+
+[44:18] But there are native uh pectin methylesterases, which are the you know exact opposite of pectinases that are in cherries. Uh online there might be some there might be some stuff on how to um use those native ones with calcium. So you would have to add fundamentally you would make a brine with uh, you know, sugar alcohol and some form of calcium. Uh you know, sour cherries are kind of a pain in the butt because they turn to mush so easily. Raineers have a little I have some in front of me that Joe brought.
+
+[44:52] Very nice. Uh they're, you know, they're a little more hardy and they don't you know how like sour cherries turn that disgusting color when you when you break them? That gross, gross color. Uh rainers, I don't think are as bad with that, but um I would probably use some form of antioxidant like vitamin C and some form of calcium, probably calcium uh uh chloride, even though it's gross, it's very available. So and then vacuum impregnate that into the cherries and you might have uh some luck.
+
+[45:22] But I have not personally done it without the enzyme, so I so I don't know. Um yeah. And then when you're doing most of those things, you know, you want to if you're gonna osmotically mess with the cherry, which is what you're gonna do, you're gonna osmotically mess with it, like infuse it with sugar and alcohol over time. Everyone does it in stages, right? So I would do cal I would do like an initial calcium infusion with probably some sugar and maybe some booze, and then kind of replace it as you go, keep the calcium in it so that it doesn't leach out.
+
+[45:52] Uh, but then you can constantly reduce the level of you need minute amount of calcium to at the end to keep it good, right? So think about like when you eat canned tomatoes, the vast majority of canned tomatoes have been jacked with calcium uh chloride. You can't taste the bitterness of the calcium chloride because it only requires a little bit of residual calcium, not like a boat ton, like the amount that you would use to set algorithm. Uh, but I wish maybe someone on the Discord, you know, like Kevin or someone um, you know, uh has uh a good what's it called, um, protocol. But uh that's where I would start looking.
+
+[46:27] All right, awesome. And uh do you think I can speed this all up uh by using a chamber back? Yeah. As long as you don't break, as long as you don't burst them, you know what I mean? I mean, the issues with cherries is is that um, you know, I don't know how permeable the skin of the cherry is.
+
+[46:43] It doesn't, I'm holding one in my hand, it doesn't feel very permeable, right? So uh I mean that's I figured I would pit them. Oh, well, then it's no problem. It'll infuse like a mother. But if you pit them, then you can't put them into a drink and have people pick up the stems and tie them with their mouths and do all that other, you know, fun stuff.
+
+[47:01] You know what I mean? Yeah, fair. Yeah. So I don't know whether people like poke a hole in the bottom of them or what when they're doing when they're doing this, because like I gotta say, the skin of a cherry is feels pretty relatively impermeable. It's got like a good waxy coating on it.
+
+[47:19] So uh uh someone who's actually done this a lot before, because when I was making them hard, I did like you say, I pitted them. But like yeah, on the other hand, Toby Chicchini. If anyone, you know, uh has his uh saw him at Tales of the Cocktail, but I didn't think to ask him. You know, he's been making uh brandied cherries for you know decades, but with sours. But I'm assuming that you know the technology of preserving a sour cherry and uh sweet cherry probably isn't too different, it's just the taste result that's different.
+
+[47:46] I would guess. Yeah, so you could also just look up like what people do traditionally to preserve them and then just you know use your technical mind to make it slightly better, you know what I mean? Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah. Too many reindeer cherries.
+
+[48:03] Why don't you just sit and eat them? I I have sat and eaten many on many, but the problem is uh blackberries are also really good right now, and uh that's a that's an easier thing to shovel into my face. Quinn had some very good uh well, just hire someone to pit the cherries for you and you can shovel infinity in your face. But you know what I have to say? The act of spitting out uh a cherry seed when you're like outside and just going th boom is like you know, like none other.
+
+[48:32] It's a good feeling. Poop. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean I'm in coastal Virginia, nobody wants to do anything outside right now. Uh, fair, fair.
+
+[48:39] Uh disgusting. Uh Quinn also made some delicious gelato out of it, which you could then use as uh you can do uh you know, some sort of like uh afogado situation or something, you know what I mean? Yeah, that'd be good. Yeah. You have a refractometer.
+
+[48:55] Of course he has a refractometer. Yeah, what are you talking about? Of course he has a refractometer. Okay, it's not an amateur. I mean, if you want he's not an amateur, the man's professional.
+
+[49:03] If you're if you want to start base back, let me know. Go up go on the Patreon and and uh and and look it up. Anyway. I don't post it. Yeah.
+
+[49:14] All right. All right. Let us know what you do with it. Let us know. If if you come up with a good protocol, uh give us a holler back and let us know.
+
+[49:20] Cool, yeah. I'll play around. Thanks a lot. I go. I'll talk to you soon.
+
+[49:23] I bet. No tangent Tuesdays on cooking issues. All tangents. All tangents, all all tangents all the time. Uh they had a radio station in Juneau, K T O O.
+
+[49:35] I was imagining like, you know, K2, K T O O Bringing it to Juno. I was like, man, I love a job on that radio station. You know what I mean? I could have done that for a living back in the day. I could have done that.
+
+[49:46] Oh yeah. Oh man, you'd be good. Yeah, like, you know, announcing the monster trucks and like, you know, you know, whatever, you know, whatever. The current salmon run. Sock eyes coming in to Mendon Hall Glacier.
+
+[49:58] You're right. The weather. Yeah, the weather, whatever. It's still rainy. For the farms.
+
+[50:02] Yeah. Well, I don't know what they grow. They have farms. I guess they have farms. I don't know.
+
+[50:05] Uh, by the way, in Juneau, they also uh saying like the the Klingit have like a huge number of herbs uh and things that are are foraged and cultivated and grown that are unavailable. One of them is available. I didn't buy it there because it was too expensive. But uh it's also grown in Siberia, and it's uh fireweed tea. And so uh Quinn, you're gonna get some too, right?
+
+[50:30] Because they grow it locally on your island. So fireweed. I gotta I gotta talk to my uh forger buddy. Yeah, so they they this it it grows everywhere. It's these beautiful kind of purple flowers that you see, and you can use the flowers to add color and they make jams out of it.
+
+[50:44] But they the tea the leaves itself don't have a lot of flavor when they're on the thing. I know because I was chewing on them, hoping I would get some good flavor out of them. But they're made into a tea almost like tea is made into a tea. So you roll the leaves and uh, you know, crush them and then ferment them for, you know, different amounts of time depending on the effect you want to get, and then dry them out and make a tea. So I have some being uh shipped to me, so I'm super, super excited about that.
+
+[51:12] They have like we like they have a lot of interesting products uh in Alaska. I'm gonna try to get uh some shipped uh to tell you guys uh more about them. Um Kirk Gibson writes in, I live in a cocktail bar desert, Provo, Utah. But uh I love experimenting with new flavors and drink ideas, so I decided to turn my basement into a little bar where I can experiment and share with friends and family. For the last 10 years, I've been amassing a collection of spirits and liqueurs to fuel this bartending hobby, and historically we'd host a party about two to three times a month.
+
+[51:41] However, since welcoming our first child 18 months ago, we stopped hosting nearly as frequently. Yeah. I mean, that's what happens. Anyway, um, so the question is what to do with all of these liquors. Well, I'm not super concerned about the shelf stability of the higherproof spirits.
+
+[51:55] Um, and I know our refrigerator vermouth or other wine-based bottles need to be finished within a few months of opening. I'm wondering if I need to start giving away other bottles as well. We have a lot of Amari slash liqueurs sitting on shelf that probably aren't going to be used for the next three to four years. Uh I've heard that with, well, wait, wait, when you've had the kid even longer, you're no, I'm kidding, I'm just messing with you. Uh I've heard that with bottles uh over 17% ABV, I don't need to worry about food safety.
+
+[52:18] But are there any uh Amario liqueurs that will keep their flavor potency until uh our kiddo is old enough to make his own breakfast and let us sleep late at night? Or are they all destined to be gifted out gifted out? Um, so here's the thing. Uh some there are liqueurs that are more stable than others, but the vast majority of them are gonna be quote unquote okay, right? So they might change over time.
+
+[52:45] If you're really worried about it, Theo Uya, who's the head bartender at Contra Bar Contra in New York, our new bar where you should go on 138 Orchard Street, uh right now, Tuesday through uh Tuesday through Saturday, you should go from five to midnight. Um, he came up with a new technique and it's worth doing just once if you really want to seal up a bunch of bottles. So go to a welding supply with a thermos. And uh I'm assuming in Provo, Utah, there's not too many people doing this. If you live in New York, they won't do it for you, but a lot of other places will.
+
+[53:19] Pay them to fill up a thermos with uh a Stanley insulated or Yeti, whatever, double insulated stainless thermos. Do not put a lid on it. Do not put a lid on it. Uh, you know, have your car windows open and and whatnot. Do not transport liquid nitrogen in a closed environment.
+
+[53:35] You know, hope maybe you have a pickup truck, which is even better. And uh just get a couple of liters of liquid nitrogen, then take your bottles, open the bottle, pour a little liquid nitrogen in and rest the cap or cork on top. Do not cork it. It will spray nitrogen out of the top of the bottle. This is what I used to do when I bottled cocktails, and my vermouth-based cocktails stayed perfect and intact, unrefrigerated.
+
+[54:00] The longest I ever had one was five years, right? And it was perfect. So, but Theo just started doing it with all of our uh low ABV liqueurs and vermouths so that we wouldn't have to refrigerate them all, right? So you put that in, and then as soon as it stops actively making uh nitrogen, phew, cap it or smack the cork down on top of it. There's now no oxygen in that bottle, and you can have a half-open bottle that's gonna be as good as the day you opened it until you are ready to have as much as you want.
+
+[54:29] So that's what I would recommend doing. And you know, like I say, it's a small investment up front, but you know, you only need to do it once. Uh, you know, for the ones that you're gonna put away, and then you know, don't open them all until you're ready. You know, put a little tape around them saying that they've been purged so that you can tell which ones you purged and which one you haven't. Uh what do you think?
+
+[54:49] Good suggestion? Good. Yeah. Read my liquid nitrogen uh safety primer on cooking issues um just to double check all of the safety hoo-ha. Uh, but that's what I recommend.
+
+[55:01] Uh I thought I answered this one, but I'll do it again because it's very fast. Uh um Cluntasaur says, Does the rice polisher that you mentioned uh on the show require a voltage transformer? And we're talking about uh I I bought a rice polishing, a Japanese rice polisher, uh, and I use it to actually take the outer layer of the very outer layer of brand with the brand hairs, which are you know part of the thing that it's a very, very outer layer has the largest impact on low volume for uh mostly whole wheat or high extraction flour. Uh so I use it to do that so I don't have to sift my flour after I grind it. Uh it does not require a voltage transformer uh because um the only difference between uh Japanese power and American power is the it's not the voltage, I mean it's a couple of volts different, but not enough, is the Hertz, right?
+
+[55:50] So they're at 50 hertz, 50 cycles per second, and we're at 60. And I can tell you from experience running, it's fine. It's fine running. It it it it's I think it even says it's designed to run 50-60. So you're you're good to go.
+
+[56:01] You don't need to worry about it. You do need to worry about reading the manual because it's not in English. So Google, if you don't speak Japanese, Google or read Japanese rather, uh, Google Translate is your friend as it is mine. And I put little stickers on the on my actual unit so that I don't have to keep looking at the manual to remember what the buttons mean because you know it's you know Greek to me. Uh from DJ R N D.
+
+[56:27] Uh hi, Dave and Croove. Uh fish fragrant eggplant is one of my favorite dishes. If you haven't made it before, if you should done last recipe in the food of Sichuan is a great starting point. The eggplant is basically cut, salted, drain, and then naked, that's important to say naked, deep fried, and then tossed into a sauce. It ends up amazingly creamy.
+
+[56:43] I was uh recently listening to uh Dave Chang's recipe club podcast about eggplant, and he discusses a version of fish fragrant eggplant made by a restaurant in Melbourne called Dainty Sichuan. The key difference is they make it with some sort of super crisp, uh slightly sweet batter that provides a great contract to the molten creamy interior. Uh uh Chang thought it might have been isomalt, but uh it sounds like that wasn't it. Do you have any idea what they may be doing thanks in advance? I don't.
+
+[57:10] Uh I didn't get a chance to go read the recipe club, but there are a bunch of people who, when they do this, um, will fry the eggplant in uh like we'll starch coat it. So like I would just I would work on making the crispiest freaking starch-based coating that you can, one that can tolerate some waterlog uh situations. But if anyone in the Discord has like a recipe that they use for that stays hyper crisp, even when you're using a notoriously soggy vegetable like uh eggplant, you know, uh let me know. And I I can think about it. I'm sure someone out there on in our crew has done it and is gonna give you the hypercrisp.
+
+[57:51] I don't remember what the, and I can't find the old recipes, what the batter was that we used on our pickle fries back at existing conditions. I gotta find that recipe because those things stayed crisp as hell. And I bet you uh the same recipe would work here. Lord Nabu writes in uh my mother has bought a slush ice machine, and for the inevitable day when she gets bored with it and I grab it. Has anyone have some decent figures for sugar acid xanthan for decent results, both alcoholic and non-alcoholic?
+
+[58:17] Uh yeah, I don't have any non-alcoholic ones that I love, uh, but they generally start at 12 uh bricks and go up. I would stay below one sixteenth of one percent of Xanthan. I can get you the exact figures for next week's show. Quinn, keep it on there. Because as it freezes, the Xanthan, uh the Xanthan becomes more and more concentrated.
+
+[58:37] And so something that doesn't taste too Xanthany when it's not frozen, it's gonna taste too Xanthany when it is frozen. If it's not meant to do alcohol, it probably is if it's a consumer-grade machine, it doesn't freeze based on texture the way a professional does. It freezes based on temperature. And so you may have to modify it. And I think I did a post on that.
+
+[58:54] Uh, I forget whether I put that on Instagram or whether I put it on Patreon or what, but uh get in touch. Uh Brandon Bird, uh, do you have an instant frozen dessert base or recipe? It'd be nice to be able to produce ice cream gelato or survey on demand with minimal prep work. I have access to dry us in LN. Don't use dry us, use an LN.
+
+[59:09] So I'm minutes away from frozen deliciousness, but making the base can be a pain, especially with custard and dairy-based ingredients. I am hoping there is a uh Q Dragon secret. Well, you're gonna have to go to the Patreon and check out Q Dragon's uh secret. Uh Justin Cheryl, I'll give you the Shag Bark recipe uh next week's show. Uh also Alexander asks about black garlic and talks about ferment actual fermentation, which you know, everyone says it's not, but gives me to uh sent me to a paper.
+
+[59:33] I don't have enough time to research exactly what that paper is, but um my guess is that even if bacteria can survive making black garlic, they are not the reason black garlic tastes what it uh the way it does, and the paper you pointed to doesn't really say that it does, it just talks about microbial colonies on the black garlic, not any flavor contribution they might make. Uh Johnny from uh Johnny Midwest wants to buy a smoker. So peace people write in your recommendations for smokers. I only have like minimal smoker, uh outdoor smoker information because I've only had to use the restaurant ones, Big Chief and Little Chief, which you know, I don't know that that's what you want. So please send us your smoker recommendations and we'll talk about them for Johnny Midwest on next week's show, Cooking Issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Marlowe, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live and very, very sweaty. From New York City, Heart of Manhattan, Rugfeller Center, News Dance Studios. Joined as usual with John, actually back. You weren't here last week.
+
+[0:23] Good to have you again. How are you doing? Great to be back at the time. Joe Hazen rocking the panels. How you doing?
+
+[0:28] I'm doing well. You're looking good. You came in like a little like a BAT out of H E L L L. That's true. Little AT double hockey sticks.
+
+[0:36] Because uh this morning I was in the sugar honey and the iced tea. Uh got uh Nastata Hammer Lopez back. How you doing, Stas? Good. Yeah.
+
+[0:45] And are you uh where where are you now? You're in uh Los Angeles still? Oh yeah. Uh oh yeah. I am uh I hear uh Jackie Molecules in the background, also in uh Los Angeles this time.
+
+[0:57] Yeah, freshly back from Austin, Texas. All right, we'll talk about that. And in the upper upper left, Quinn, how you doing? I'm good. Good, good, good, good.
+
+[1:07] Uh all right, so uh, so what's up? What do you oh by the way? If you guys have any questions, uh call in your questions too, and I forgot the number. Yeah, I will. Uh we'll get it eventually.
+
+[1:16] Uh but uh 718 497-2128. That sounds about right. Say it again, but give it some uh Sunday, Sunday, Sunday. 7184972128. 2128.
+
+[1:27] I'm gonna correct you all. Damn. Oh, wow. All right, hold on. Give it one time clean.
+
+[1:38] One time clean. 917 410 1507. You've call now. Uh so uh if you want to uh know how to become a Patreon member or what you get for that uh bonus, why don't you talk to him, John? Go to patreon.com slash cooking issues.
+
+[1:53] There's a couple different membership uh levels, different perks with every level, uh including discounts of people we work with, like uh one of our friends at Glassvin, you get 10% off. And frankly, everyone gets us too with code Dave Arnold, capital D, capital A. Um, get discounted. Not my idea, by the way. That code, not my idea.
+
+[2:12] Um discounts uh with our good friends at Kitchen Arts and Letters and just a whole bunch of other great things. So check out patreon.com slash cooking issues. Yeah. Uh all right. So uh Austin, Texas, hook me up.
+
+[2:24] What do you got? Um had some good food actually. I went I I didn't realize they had good Sessuan. Uh first a few friends took me to a place called House of Three Gorges, uh, which is a crazy name of the place. And that was great.
+
+[2:38] Kamuri, Tatsuya, Good Isakaya. Um although the third place I went to, I won't name, but multiple people were like, oh yeah, one of the best burgers in Austin, one of the best burgers in Austin. The bottom of the bun was black. You know, what do you mean like burnt? Yeah, just burn burnt.
+
+[3:01] Uh did you say, hey, you've made an error, or did you look around and everybody had bottom burnt bottoms? It was like a divey bar situation where there's a little bit of attitude. So I wasn't gonna be that guy that goes up to the counter and like, excuse me, my bone is burnt. Really, though? Really, though?
+
+[3:18] I mean, like uh if they have attitude, I mean, what's Austin attitude like compared to New York attitude? Like on the attitude scale, like where are you? Like, give me like pairs, right? So you could have walked up and crushed them. Like, how are you intimidated by Austin based attitude?
+
+[3:33] You know what I mean? I've lived in LA for four years, Dave. You know, I've lost my edge. You need to come back for it. You need to re come back and recharge.
+
+[3:40] Here's the great thing. I I've said a lot of negative things about New York, even though it is my town. Uh, one thing I have to say, it'll only take you like a week. You get back to New York, and you know, you'll go from being like, hey man, like within one week, one week, you'll have it back, and then you'll be able to go to Austin and get the bun you deserve. Bun I deserve.
+
+[4:02] Was it at least was it at least buttered? Uh no, it was like a chibana bun. What? No, I don't know what planet thinks that a cabata is the ideal burger vehicle. It's not.
+
+[4:18] Not at all. Oh my God. I mean, I like a chubada. Let's not give me wrong here. A cabata is not a terrible piece of bread.
+
+[4:26] You know what I mean? But no, I just like it. Not for a burger. What do you like a chubba? What do you guys like a cabata for?
+
+[4:34] First of all, when a ciabatta is too white looking, it means they under salted that thing. They went like closer to no salt. I hate that. Right? I hate that.
+
+[4:43] You know what I'm saying? Uh, but like, what what do you uh I hated that as uh Chef Alan said Chef Alan Sayak, right when I started working for him, I think I said this on air before. This is the reason I don't shake hands at all when I'm working. Is uh he reached out his hand to shake my hand, which didn't give me a choice because you know, he was like, you know, he's like this like the running the school at the time and like you know, famous chef and all this stuff, Franch, all that. So I can't refuse my hand.
+
+[5:10] And I say as I reach out my hand, I'm sorry, I just washed my hands. And I dried them, but not you know how you dry your hands, but the the kitchen towels never get your hands dry. Yeah, you know what I mean? And I shake his hand and he goes, I hated that. And so from then on, that day.
+
+[5:24] Like, you know, like 15 years ago or whatever, I just never, when I'm working, I just won't shake people's hands. You know what I mean? Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[5:29] Things it's the things that stick with you. You know what I mean? Yeah. The little the little moments that uh that stick with you. Uh how'd we get on that?
+
+[5:41] Oh, what are we talking about? Burns? Ciabatta. Yeah, ciabatta. So what what's a what's a good end use for a cabata?
+
+[5:46] I have to say I was thinking garlic bread, but no. Sandwich? Like what kind of sandwich? If it's arugula mozzarella and prosciutto. Correct.
+
+[5:56] Give me a more like basic but Italian flats flatish sandwich. Italian style flattered sandwich. Mortadella? Have you did you did you read that New York Times article about mortadella? No.
+
+[6:08] So uh there's a uh I I forget her name, but she's she lives there in Bologna. She lives in Bologna. And uh or Balagna, uh, as we say, and uh, you know, she's like all of a sudden in the past like 10 years, it went from being a university town and a food town that you know, most tourists, I guess by that they she means Americans and Germans, like uh kind of you know, didn't go to. It wasn't on that on that heavily traveled tourist route in that in that area. And she says, now it's completely overrun by tourists, and all it is is mortadella shops.
+
+[6:46] So apparently, like there's like 30 times more mortadella being pumped out of uh uh that you know there than there has been ever before. And every other shop is called Ancient Mortadella Butcher or something, something like this. Just like scads and scads of mortadella, and like even fake street foods that aren't real street foods going in there, like these like fried um like fried ravioli or raviola or something like that, or fried tortillas, something like this there, and just like unconscionably large amounts of mortadella, and she's like, what the hell? Yeah, well, get used to it. Yeah.
+
+[7:17] Get used to it. Yeah. You know what I mean? I remember back when I was in Rome a couple years ago, they were uh putting out, you know, bundles of dried pasta on the windows, like it was fresh pasta with like the semolina all around it and everything, a little flour mix in there for good measure just to dupe all the idiots. Yeah.
+
+[7:34] That's crazy. That's uh that's a good business model, dupe the idiots. Yeah. Well, you know, it it there's not an incentive to do a good job when no one's ever gonna come back, right? That was the one thing from Freakonomics.
+
+[7:48] Yeah. The one thing in free freak economics that I mean, and I know a lot of people have problems with that with the book and with their whole like modus operandi. But um, the one thing that stuck with me, they were like, you know why all the restaurants in Times Square are bad? Is because why would they be good? There's not even one marginal reason for them to be better because you're there, you're gonna go anyway.
+
+[8:10] It's like, why, I don't know, I haven't been in years, but why was for at least 40 years Tavern on a green famously the worst food and service on earth, and yet constantly packed. It's because they did not need to give you good food and or service, and uh there is no reason to do so, right? In fact, you're disincentivized because you're making less money by worrying about making the food and the service good. And so you're actually doing uh your investors a disservice by making it a high quality product. So uh, yeah, why?
+
+[8:40] Why make it good? Yeah, that's yeah, crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And this is why we're not rich.
+
+[8:47] This is why none of us are rich. Zing. Zing on myself. Uh so other than other than burnt and uh when you say good sashwana, how good? Can you get like the fresh stuff there?
+
+[8:59] Can you get like uh the fresh uh the fresh green? The fresh green, the fresh green uh Sichuan peppercorns are ridiculous. In like a sauce. You can? Yeah.
+
+[9:08] I don't even know where to buy those here. Is there a place you can buy those here, John? Not that I know of, but I definitely don't know. Oh god, I love those. Actually, I think you can get them, if I'm not mistaken, this place called the Mala Kitchen or Mala Market.
+
+[9:22] Mala Market, it's a website. I wonder if they sell the green ones. Fresh? But they mean I mean I've ordered their droids, so don't want drive. Don't want dry.
+
+[9:34] Yeah, they got green. I want to figure out a word for I want fresh green. I want fresh green rolling around in my sauce. So good. Um hey, you know what?
+
+[9:45] You know what's impossible to find when you need to fly to by the way, I'm flying to Korea. Anyone who's in Seoul, I think there's five spots left for my talk that's in. I don't even know how many days, because it's like I'm gonna be flying for 8,000 hours and then I land and I don't know how many days, but I'm gonna post it on social media uh in a little bit. Uh but um it's like uh uh what's it called? Uh I have like five spots left.
+
+[10:08] So I'll post it, I think and go in. Anyway, on the small on the small one. Um, but if anyone's in Seoul who's gonna listen to this, uh, so I'm like, they want me to use a rotor vap, right? So get this. So I'm like, what roto vap?
+
+[10:21] So Bukey is sponsoring it, so I finally get to use the state-of-the-art roto vap with the automatic distillation uh and all that. So next week when I'm back, because I'm only gone for a couple of days, I'll let you guys know how the new roto vap is and how it compares to the you know, good old days of uh of uh Nastasi and I in a trash room with a roto vap, uh like sitting there like dialing in numbers and spraying butter all over the outside of our equipment to seal it because it wasn't sealing properly. Remember that, Stas? Yep. Remember our boy uh so I've told a story before, I'll say it one more time.
+
+[10:52] So like we are so old school rotovap that we started, well, I started by building one, which sucked. I don't recommend you do that, and then bought an 80s version on uh on e on eBay, had to clean all of the poisonous carbon tetrachloride out of it. That's what it smelled like to me. And so that's what Nastasia and I used for years. Until one day, did you call them or did they cold call us?
+
+[11:14] Did you reach out, Stas, or did they cold call us? I reached out. Yeah. So this guy, uh, this is back, you know, I don't know, they don't do it anymore. Bukey US Robert Crotchfeldt came and gave us a rotovap the day before we went on Jimmy Fallon.
+
+[11:30] I had a brand new rotovap. That was like, wow. So anyway, so uh I'll work on them when I'm in uh Korea, but there ain't no way that Bukey Asia is gonna help out Bukey USA. You know what I mean? I don't have a lot of, don't have a lot of high high in the pot, high in the sky apple pie hopes.
+
+[11:46] But I'm gonna be using the same thing that like bars with shapes for a name uses. So I'm excited. Uh anyway, so I wanted to do the the old school habanero and grapefruit juice because that was delicious, right? Stas, even you like that one. Yeah.
+
+[11:57] Yeah. And uh and it's with their equipment, so if we mess up, I don't have to clean it. I can just throw it in the trash. Uh and I'll let anyone know if there's any uh glass licking that has to happen when it's over. I'll let I'll let everyone know, and then we can have that discussion again whether anyone over there has to lick glass.
+
+[12:15] You know I'll be the first one to do it. Yeah, you know I'll be the first one to do it. If for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, go back and stay that way. Or just stay that way. Stay in the dark.
+
+[12:23] You don't want to know, you don't want to hear it. Anyway, so uh guess what is hard to find? Guess what they don't have in Korea, right now? Red habanero peppers or Naga peppers. And guess what's hard to find here in New York City?
+
+[12:36] I just went to like three different shops, and uh I only have 200 grams of red right now. I need 600. What is wrong with people? What the heck is wrong with people? I don't know.
+
+[12:47] You can bring fresh peppers like that to Korea? No. Okay. No, you cannot. So what I have to do is I'm gonna have to pre-blend it with the liquor and put it in a bottle like it's a hot pepper sauce.
+
+[12:59] And I'm praying it comes in. It's not a fresh fruit andor vegetable. Yeah. You're not allowed to bring in liquid. You're there's no rule against liquids.
+
+[13:08] You're not allowed to bring in fresh fruits, vegetables, meats, produce of any kind into into Korea. Uh, but I have not seen any uh, you know, you can't bring Tabasco sauce in. I haven't seen that yet. You know what I mean? So, like, for for all anyone knows, this is gonna be a 20% ABV Tabasco sauce.
+
+[13:29] That's my that's my theory. And if it gets yanked, it gets yanked and I do something else. I mean, you know, uh, as uh as uh Karen Smith, uh Jeffrey Steingarden's uh wife said to me, uh no choice and no problem, right? You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[13:46] What am I gonna do about it? Fight the Korean government, go to jail in handcuffs over over a bunch of uh blended peppers? No, I will not. I won't. Anyway.
+
+[13:55] Uh all right. So uh Stas, what do you got? You got anything for us? No. Big lovely, nope.
+
+[14:04] Alright. How's LA anyway treating you? It's great. Thank you for the care package. Are you saying it?
+
+[14:10] Did Quinn send a care package and put my name on it? That's nice. No. Are you saying I didn't send a you saying I did Are you saying are you saying you wish there was a care package and there and there was not? Is that what you're saying?
+
+[14:22] No, I did get some food and I didn't know who it was from, so I thought it was you. No, I wish it was me. That would be nice. But you would if I sent a care package to anyone on my own, you should call the doctor and have them come pick me up. Because someone has replaced my head with somebody else's who has that ability to think uh think ahead and be nice.
+
+[14:43] But anyway, I'm hope you enjoyed whoever it was that sent it to. That was nice. Uh all right, and Quinn, I know you I know you got some stuff. Did you want to talk? Because it Brandon Bird wrote in a while ago, and I thought we dealt with it before on the last show about uh a base recipe, but we we didn't, or no.
+
+[14:58] Yeah, yeah. You we were sort of rushing through those at the end so I thought we could revisit it just in case. Uh just in case, just in case they didn't actually listen to the answer we had last year. Or is it that you want to talk about frozen desserts again? I'm just curious.
+
+[15:12] Also, we've been chicken with John. Yeah, Quinn. But we're we will, but what about as I'm checking with you? I thought maybe you could fold in the Brandenburg question and like finish it once and for all so it doesn't show up on my piece of paper again. And by the way, I'll say before you even answer that, I had someone come in to I had two people come into the bar.
+
+[15:33] I have a picture of them. The guy that sent the um I was name just popped out of my head again. Someone look it up and tell me, so I remember forever. The guy with the uh key lime pie idea, the acid just key lime pie idea. You want to hear Alexi.
+
+[15:44] Alex, you want to hear something crazy? Yes. He's never made one. Well, he comes up with the idea and doesn't make one. The hell is that?
+
+[15:52] And also, someone came in who asked a question about uh, I don't know, he said we never answered it, about uh something about using a Buchner funnel. And I was like, I'm pretty sure I said don't use a Buchner funnel for any reason ever, under any circumstances. Unless what you're doing is filtering a precipitate out of a bunch of acetone. In which case, go ahead. Um, all right, what do you what do you what do you got, Quinn?
+
+[16:16] Uh yeah, well, again, the question from Brandon was about like a simple recipe. Like the again, he uh mentioned he has access to uh liquid nitrogen. Um you can sort of take a lot of shortcuts related to texture because you're gonna get such rapid uh ice crystallization. But I mean, if I had simple recipes, I don't think I would have a career. So well, first of all, when you're using liquid nitrogen, because I've made liquid nitrogen ice cream so many times, like so many times, it's actually not as easy as you would think.
+
+[17:01] And the problem isn't what you would think it is if you haven't done it before. It's actually that you overfreeze it. And uh, so you know, it goes from being like like soft to like temper into chunks of hard stuff like mixed in with uh, you know, uh mixed in with like under stuff very, very quickly, uh like little hard rocks, because the like it'll look like as soon as your beater can't effectively mix it anymore, the localized areas of liquid nitrogen that are left will completely re like like pebbolize the stuff. And so you end up with a product that actually, most of the time, unless you're good at it, practice with it, needs to be tempered back. The other problem with it is is that most people make liquid nitrogen in a Kitchen aid, and do not attempt to make liquid nitrogen ice cream in a Kitchen Aid without the silicone coated spatula.
+
+[17:51] If you don't use the silicone coated spatula, you are in for a world of hurt because it's just gonna freeze to the outside of the bowl, and then that stuff's never gonna come off, and then get the get the spatula because that that then it acts a lot like uh an ice cream maker, you know, because uh any ice cream maker, the dasher is meant to scrape against. And that's actually my problem with the white uh, what's it called? White mountain. So, like I used to have a uh a $2 thrift store rival ice cream maker that was you know, a salt and ice, which to me is still superior method, salt and ice, and um even less you have $10,000 machine, salt and ice. It's either salt and ice or $10,000.
+
+[18:28] That's like those are the two. The cream the creamy's pretty good. I mean, that but that's not that's not a traditional ice cream maker. That's Paco style. Yeah.
+
+[18:36] Yeah. So, you know, with salt and ice, if you do a good job and you have a good machine, you can get a batch time of like nine minutes, something like this, without having it be too much of a problem. And so, you know, once you can they tell you not to do that because if you stop turning even for a second, you get a lot of freeze down on the side. But like, you know, I'm lunatic, so I'm gonna keep it going. So uh I had a rival that did a great job, and then I bought the White Mountain, which is you know the sinequa non of uh old school things, and it's got wooden dashers, wooden dashers, and they like I'm old timey, wooden dashers, oh old man, like what the hell?
+
+[19:12] Just use a real dasher. You know what I mean? Like use an effective modern scraping device, White Mountain, you know, like certain things can you're old timey enough. The fact that you have start that you're gonna use salt and ice and you're gonna crank it, you have become old-timey enough. You can upgrade to like, you know, a silicon-edged plastic dasher system.
+
+[19:29] I'm just saying, you know. Uh, so I never got the quality out of my White Mountain that I wanted. Anyway. Uh what else are you gonna? Oh, the other thing is you gotta remember, Brandon, Quinny Quinn makes most of his specs, and I don't know, I haven't looked at your calculator yet, but do you have a spec for uh do you have a spec for freezer temp, Paco Temp, and the Quinn style?
+
+[19:56] Quinn style means that you add so much uh uh sugar to it, not sweetness, but sugar solids to it to hold on, let me to make it so that the texture is dippable right out of a standard home fridge. So those are the two the three styles. I bring it down to two soils with some testing. So there's like what I call direct service, which you call quince oil, which is your serving directly out of the deep breeze, and then the creamy at least, when you process it, it brings it pretty much right to the tempered temperature after you process. Yeah.
+
+[20:36] So they're sort of tempered and using a blade soil machine is the same uh formula. Yeah. I would wonder whether or not an unstabilized quin style ice cream is gonna have a much, I bet I guarantee you it has a much higher meltdown than a because I mean I just I would assume that because your delta T is higher, right? So, you know, the melt rate of the melt rate of a of a product is proportional to how much solids, how many, how much solids are in it? So that is one thing that you know that affects the melt rate.
+
+[21:22] The other is the actual kind of what's called the diffusion constant, the m the how fast the molecules can move into solution as things melt. So that's why I think from all the research I've done, alcohol melts things so much faster at a given at a given uh melting temperature, right? Uh alcohol will melt faster, I think, than sugar, because uh alcohol is just a smaller, faster kind of diffusing molecule. So your your solution, your your gradient, your concentration gradient can can move faster. And the other thing, of course, is air.
+
+[21:55] Uh any air you add is gonna slow it down, fat also. And then uh last but not least, the stabilizer. So I think if you were to use maybe one of Quinn's Quinn style, un like with less stabilization, it might get a faster melt rate. Have you tested that yet? I mean, no, because I'm I want the stability not only for that melt rate sort of regulation.
+
+[22:19] Okay, they're willing it to be a little dent and stuff. So I haven't done much like low stabilized product. It's I mean it treat stabilization down a little bit if there's like incidental or solids like in the ingredients, but you know, I never completely eliminate them. Yeah. So I used to do like Briar style stabilizer cream, stabilizer-free, like filly ice cream.
+
+[22:50] And if you have a good machine and you're gonna eat it right away, that stuff's ridiculously good. But gotta eat it right away. You know what I mean? Like, gotta eat that right away. Can't overturn it or it goes butter.
+
+[23:01] It's just like super high fat, right out of the machine. Eat it now, go home. You know what I mean? Or you're probably already home if you're eating it. Uh yeah, one last thing.
+
+[23:10] Oh, yeah. You know, like uh what's interesting. I don't know whether people have thought about this too much, but melting too fast, bad, but also melting too slow, bad. If ice cream doesn't melt at all, people are like, what the hell? Usually it's in cheaper ice creams that are like very lightweight.
+
+[23:29] So you get something that's lightweight. When someone hands you a cone, by the way, you guys cones or cup people. Cup. Cup, I'm cup. Joe?
+
+[23:37] Cup, cup, stas. Yeah, cup. All right, Jack. You're the last cup. Ready?
+
+[23:44] Obnoxious answer. Waffle cone in cup. You know how they do that? They click put the cone on the cup. Then it's just a topping.
+
+[23:51] Then it's just a topping. Yeah. All right. Well. You know, then it's a clown hat for a clown eating it, is what it is.
+
+[24:00] That's fair. Yeah. But uh, I mean, I don't dislike the taste of a of a waffle cone. I'm not gonna say I dislike the taste of it. It's just I vastly prefer not having that crab drip all over my hands and just having a spoon.
+
+[24:11] Yeah, that's why I gotta put the cone in the bowl, you know? Yeah. I was at a place that uh their dipper cab uh two days ago I was in Williams and uh Massachusetts, and the place they were their cabinets were out of whack, and so they had to put all of their cones in cups. It was like and they still put the paper on the cone. Oh, that doesn't make sense.
+
+[24:30] That's big dummy time. Yeah, take the paper off the cone. If you're gonna serve it upside down, what do you mean? Chew on the paper? Okay, lift the cone, uh, lift the cup upside down.
+
+[24:40] Ridiculous. Just ridiculous. Absurd. Uh where we're talking about. Oh, yeah.
+
+[24:47] So, like the classic way of measuring meltdown on ice cream, swear to God, is they take a little mesh screen that has a certain size mesh, and then they make a standard hockey puck of ice cream. They temper it to a specific temperature, then they put said hockey puck on the screen at a specified temperature. I don't know what all the specifies are, but it's all standard. And then they just wait and they measure that screen over time to measure the drip. And so if it's so stabilized that even once it's melted, everything stays above the screen, it's considered very bad.
+
+[25:18] Very, very bad. Although that's the way we all always used to make our flaming ice creams, and uh all of our flaming ice creams were so highly stabilized that you could probably drop it off a building. Not really. As soon as you, you know, it's a fluid gel, so as soon as you scoop into it, it's theoretically a liquid, but man, you know, it'll hold its freaking shape uh on a on a wire mesh. Anyway, uh so you're still telling Brandon just go look up those two calculators?
+
+[25:42] Is that is that where we are, Quinn? Well, again, again, the problem is that even yeah, there's no simple recipes in my collection, I don't think. Well, we and what's simple? I mean, like simple is just you can buy the stuff, right? Well, I mean, don't I mean how many steps how many steps are your recipes?
+
+[25:59] Do you have to like, you know, do you have to like do a game of twister to do it, or is it just you have to buy some ingredients? There's there's different ways to look at simple, right? Most of the surveys or just blend. That's simple. Yeah, that's not even cooking.
+
+[26:12] You don't have to cook. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, we have to get people, okay. If you guys are gonna ask us questions like this, we need like here's the information I want to know.
+
+[26:22] What do you mean by simple? Right? Because to me, simple is I can walk into my cabinet, I have the stuff, I can blend it together, and I don't have to wait five days for this gel to set and this to bop but beep blah beep beep beep. There's no there's not a bunch of kickats of things that I have to like, you know, put together and do, right? That's simple.
+
+[26:41] Even if it has like a fairly large number of ingredients, or if it's like fairly calculated, right? Everything is simple as in the eye of the maker, you know what I mean? Yeah, true. Anywho, but also, Brandon, I'm sorry to say Quinn is, I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you've told me that you're not a fan of the of the and a lot of people aren't. I am because I'm lazy as hell.
+
+[27:04] The one, the base, the base that can you can mix stuff into. You know what I mean? Just like have a in my opinion, the absolute worst technique for making flavors. Okay, well, uh I mean, I have to say, like, if if you're living if you're living in the real life, and if you're living in the real life and you need to be able to make stuff on the fly, you know what's real handy to have around? A rich creme en glaze.
+
+[27:33] You know what I mean? Just like in the vac bag, have it done, rich creme en glaze. The sucker was made before. It's all good. And you know what?
+
+[27:42] It may not be the most of any particular flavor, but it's a good base. You know what I mean? And then you can have flavor to it. I know you hate it, but I'm just saying, in terms of simple land, that's simple. You know?
+
+[27:56] I forget what it was. Like 10A, I think it was 10 egg yolks. Shoot, how much do I have it? Because I tested your 10 egg yolks. Um actually sort of working here.
+
+[28:08] It's 10 egg yolks, 10 egg yolks, 500. This is how simple it is. I can still remember it all these years later. 10 egg yolks, 500 grams of uh 500 uh mils of cream, 500 mils milk, uh forget how much sugar, probably in the area of 200. And then forty something.
+
+[28:23] And then uh, and then uh, you know, vanilla if you want it. If you want to make your base vanilla flavored, I wouldn't, right? Because you can add vanilla later. And uh salt, you know, I would guess like a percent and a half or something of salt. And uh, yeah, 80, you drop it in the bat uh in the bath at 85, it uh it drops down, you sit at 82 for roughly 15 minutes.
+
+[28:45] You slap the hell out of it when it comes out to get rid of the curds, and uh it's a decent base. But Quinn hates it, so it's fine. It's fine. You can hate it. That's fine.
+
+[28:53] I'm just saying I've served many hundreds of people that with no regrets. It sounds great as a French style creme and glaze. You know, we're delicious. You know what's delicious? French style creme englaze.
+
+[29:05] It's just delicious. There's a reason there's a reason the flavor that I grew up loving, is French vanilla. You know why? Because it's delicious. You know what I mean?
+
+[29:14] And if you're gonna go stabilize uh stabilizer free, is there's no no better stabilizer free recipe, I think, than one with an egg custard recipe. Even you know who hates egg custards is uh Sam Mason. Of course, he also stabilized the hell out of them. He actually puts the egg whites, egg yolks in, but doesn't cook them. At least he used to.
+
+[29:32] Because he doesn't like the cooked egg flavor. But I'll say the if you vac it hard, if you just ziplock it, you get the cooked egg flavor. If you vacuum it, I've done these tests and I didn't think it was gonna be the case. If you if you vacuum it, which is hard because it wants to bubble up, which is why you shouldn't blend it too much or let it sit for a while before you vac it, um, it doesn't get the it doesn't get that sulfur flavor. Anyway, what are you gonna say, Quinn?
+
+[29:56] Okay, I just went back to my notes because I tested your cream glave with your umlair's onion flavor. So it's 170 grams of sugar. 170? Yeah, but the onions, well, I don't think the onions are gonna have that much sugar. No, I'm talking about just your base.
+
+[30:18] Oh, you tested just the base without the onions. I made your base and then I blended it with blending puree. Right, but you'd never spun the base on its own. No, right. So the onions have a lot of water in them, right?
+
+[30:33] So I mean, uh that that was something we we still time. I haven't had it in in a while. You really gotta cook the hell out of those onions, pressure cook them. You know what I mean? And then get rid of the water.
+
+[30:43] Anyway. Um, I haven't made that in so long. You know what I want to make again? The potato ice cream. I love this stretchy potato ice cream, but it only works LN and it only works day of.
+
+[30:56] It loses its stretch overnight. Weird, huh? Yeah. Whereas I think the German one might hold itself. I don't know.
+
+[31:07] It also I made it once with uh with like like local potatoes in Colombia and it didn't work. So like it use you know, russet Burbanks because I know they work. Everything has to be exactly as written in the recipe, or it's it's a finicky recipe. It's let me put it that way. It's finicky recipe.
+
+[31:24] Uh all right, John, what do you got? We uh what have you got this this past couple of weeks? It's been a long time, it's been like a month. It has. It has.
+
+[31:31] I have finally rolled out the new menu. Oh, yeah. She feels good to get done. So hook us up. Give us some.
+
+[31:39] Um so a water zooey um a la Gontoise. So there are two types of water zoo in Belgium is a chicken one, and then there's like a fresh water fish one that comes from Ghent, uh, which is the town my dad was from. So tell him what it is in general because it doesn't, it's not a word anyone knows. I'm getting there, I'm getting there. Um, so it's fish with a cream sauce, uh, leeks, carrots, potatoes.
+
+[32:02] Um isn't it served in a bowl, like soupish? Yeah. Yeah. So I have it like a nice little sauce at the bottom, leek infused cream with little saffron uh potatoes, carrots, and then a really nice piece of stripe ass on top, um, crispy skin. What do you say about leeks?
+
+[32:18] Leek infused cream. So what do you how do you how do you what was it? Oh, just uh blitz up the leeks in the robo coupe, sweat them down really well. Um, and then just steep it with some heavy cream for about an hour and strain it out, yeah. What do you do with the strained leeks?
+
+[32:33] I haven't thought of that, actually. Family, we got a family meal at it. Yeah. And if the stuff is still. It does.
+
+[32:40] You know what? You know what? Family. Not for blend that stuff, put in mashed potatoes. What I should just do is actually like I also have a leek stock to cook some leeks in.
+
+[32:49] Um and I made a soup with that. I should just mix it in there and bada bing bada boom. Yeah. Don't throw away all that. No, yeah, yeah, no.
+
+[32:55] I mean, I do creamy leak, actually. No, but creamy leek actually is really good. What if you how much flavor do they have left? Probably enough, right? Yeah, enough.
+
+[33:03] And maybe in with some spinach for family. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Cook spinach.
+
+[33:08] Yeah, definitely looking for new things to make for family. I hate, hate making family meal. Why do you have to do it? Well, we split it up two days each over the course of the week. Isn't the point of it so that like the younger cooks get to test stuff out?
+
+[33:22] Why the hell the hell would you ever make it? Well, there's only one younger cook, Salvador, and he refuses to learn anything new as much as you push him. Sounds like he's not long for this job. He's he's a really he yeah, he's is and isn't. He started out, you know, as a porter and has kind of been working his way up.
+
+[33:39] Um so just like lacks the confidence in his palate to figure out what to put together. Okay. Um but so it's not from lack of desire, it's lack of confidence. Yes. Oh, so no, like every time he makes something he tries, but he makes the exact same thing every week.
+
+[33:53] And what is it? It's the Salvador special. It's uh we always have some panzu around, so it's chicken cooked in panzu and then whatever vegetable scraps he usually goes for the sweet potatoes, the carrots, the zucchini. Oh, I hate this, and then the onions panzu, and then white rice. Hey, here's your here's your sweet potato and zucchini scraps.
+
+[34:13] Go beat your head against a wall. You know what I mean? It's like, oh my god. So tired of it. Um the first time I'd be tired of it.
+
+[34:23] We try to get him to do other things, but yeah, he just uh it doesn't click. Try and show him new techniques, thing, you know, things to do, and it just doesn't every time I try to I like sweet potatoes. Every time I try to love them, I just can't. Yeah. And Thanksgiving.
+
+[34:42] Yes. Well, as a side dish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um Stas, don't you also not love the sweet potato?
+
+[34:49] No, I I'm fine with it. Fine with it. How do you like it though? Sweet potato? Yeah, do you like the whole one where they give you the whole one in aluminum foil?
+
+[34:58] I like it with marshmallows and pineapple. So Thanksgiving style. Yeah. But not like it's just a whole thing to like slug a whole through a whole one. No, no, no.
+
+[35:09] No. I mean, I like people love that though. Yeah. People were like, ooh, I want to snarf my way through an entire sweet potato. Like, yeah, we do.
+
+[35:17] Yeah? Yeah, we we yeah, skin first, the best part. Really? Mm-hmm. Do you have to scrub the hell out of it or no?
+
+[35:23] Breakfast. Yeah. Actually, it's breakfast, yeah. We we eat it in for breakfast a lot. Cold or hot?
+
+[35:29] Uh we actually prefer it cold. So you cook it the night before? Yep. Hmm. Okay.
+
+[35:34] Sometimes a little lime on it, sometimes not. Lime. That would be a welcome uh addition, I think. Yeah. Do you do do you wrap it in foil and then poke it so that it gets those little sugar marks on the outside of the aluminum foil?
+
+[35:45] Um, no, we don't poke it. We do wrap it and we I blast the hell out of it from the night before, and then it's just pretty much on the on the counter. Next morning we it's full on breakfast. I think my problem is is that every time I have one, I'm just like, I wish you were a potato. I wish you were a potato.
+
+[36:03] You know what I mean? I think that's what it is. You know? Yeah. It's like that's say when I was in Alaska, like there's this place they made this um, it was called Grizzles or something like that.
+
+[36:13] It was an outdoor place, and they and the their food of note was caribou, no, yeah, caribou hot dogs. Everyone has reindeer and caribou hot dogs there, but if you actually go to the store where they sell them, it's like one percent reindeer. You know what I mean? It's like beef, pork, reindeer. You know what I mean?
+
+[36:30] Like a little bit of reindeer. Because like I guess they only get to slaughter like one or two reindeer, and so then they have to mix that in. They call it remaining. So it's it's it's kind of a lie. It's kind of a lie.
+
+[36:39] Uh but they make these things called gutter tots, which are tater tots and fried cheese curds with like their sauce, which is a good combo. And like, and like you know, peppers and all that nonsense. Uh but they also mix sweet potato tots in, and so for like three days, they were out of they were out of tater tots, and they only had the sweet potato tots. And I'm like, we but got it once because we were so hungry and there wasn't a lot around. Plowing through an entire bowl of only sweet potato tots is just a sad, sad, sad situation.
+
+[37:12] You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. It's like, oh, this texture. Oh, you know what I mean?
+
+[37:18] No, no good. Yeah. No good. No good. I mean, like, don't mess with a tater tot.
+
+[37:23] You know, like, like, who invented those things? Orida or I used to know. I actually looked this up. Was it Orita or was it Simplot? Or is Simplot and Arita the same?
+
+[37:31] And then the other one. But like, don't mess with a tot. Yeah, don't mess with invented by Nephee Grigg of Orita. Okay. Alright.
+
+[37:43] Yeah. I mean, it's a genius thing. I got these potato scraps. I gotta do something with them. I think there's a fire in our building.
+
+[37:49] I'm not worried about it. You guys worried about it? No. There's some sort of alarm going off in our building. Doors right there.
+
+[37:54] We'll be good. Covered and smothered. Exactly. Hey, do you want to guys want to know something interesting? If anyone can hear this who has a solution for this problem, Joe Hazen has a studio called New Stand Studios here in Rockefeller Center.
+
+[38:06] And here's the we have an interesting problem. The problem is this. He can't do anything to the three and a half to four walls we have in here. And there's a big window, which means he can't sound isolate. And what we need is someone who is in the insulated glass business who wants to sponsor New Stand Studios and put uh an insulated piece of glass on the outside, which we are allowed to do.
+
+[38:35] Double pane. Yeah. With gas in between. Yeah. So and angled.
+
+[38:39] And you you'll you'll you'll rep them out, right? Of course I will. Yeah. And it's not just us, uh, cherry bomb, a bunch of like Martha Stewart comes on this piece. A lot of people come use the studio and yeah, I'm having a hard time keeping noise out.
+
+[38:52] Yeah. And you know, why don't well there's gotta be someone that listens to one of these podcasts that is like, you know what I do for a living? I make double insulated glass with the gas in between. That's a good sound barrier. I'm gonna I'm gonna work with these people, right?
+
+[39:05] Someone. I love it. Thank you, please. Yeah. Uh all right.
+
+[39:10] Um Justin uh Cheryl writes in Dave mentioned making shag bark syrup, shag bar kickery syrup some time ago. What is slash was the ratio of bark to I assume simple syrup? I have only a small amount of bark on hand, so I can't experiment too much. Well, uh someone who's got a calculator. Anyone got a calculator?
+
+[39:29] I am a calculator. All right. Uh uh, so the number is uh see uh three hundred and let's do it the other way around. 1600 plus 700 is 2300. All right, uh divide by uh 378.
+
+[39:50] That one I actually need to do our calculator. 378? Yeah. Remember when I said calculator? Yeah.
+
+[39:58] Well, it's pretty sure. Uh 0.68, etc. Zero. Okay, so about about 0.7. Let's call it 0.7, right?
+
+[40:11] Oh, 0.7. 0.07. 0.6. 0.68. What?
+
+[40:18] No. 20. Oh, sorry. I missed a zero. Okay.
+
+[40:25] Okay. 6.8. Six point eight. Six point eight. All right.
+
+[40:28] So six point eight. Right. So six. So six point, like six point eight or we call it seven times call it six point eight times uh whatever the bark weight is, add like six point eight times as w much water to it. Stick it in a vacuum machine if you have one and suck a vacuum on it a couple of times.
+
+[40:47] And the purpose of the vacuum is to push the water into the pores of the bark. First, rinse the bark. Get rid of any mold or lichen on the outside of the bark that might add a flavor. I don't think it's going to be toxic. By the way, for those of you who don't know what we're talking about, Shag Bark Hickory is uh it's a tree that makes hickory nut delicious delicious nuts, but very hard to shell.
+
+[41:07] Uh, which is why they're not commercial. They're very closely related to but taste better then a pecan. And uh the bark comes in these like it grows on these in these strips that can be torn off of the tree without damaging it. So you don't rip all of it off, but you just go on the tree and you pull off the outer pieces, go around the tree, harvest it from a couple other trees, make sure you're not in my neighborhood, make sure that you're not also grabbing poison ivy, because a lot of times poison ivy will be going up to hickory trees, and um pull it off, and that's it. You don't have to harm the tree, you don't have to tap the tree.
+
+[41:40] Uh, you know, you can do it any time of year because you're not it's not the bark's not fresh, it's not the inner bark, it's the outer bark. Rinse off any lichen or uh, you know, mold, dirt, whatnot. And then uh I break it into tiny pieces, and then I vacuum it in the water to infuse the water directly into the pore so that when you do the next step, it is good. Then you boil it with the bark uh until it's about point six one five times its original volume, uh, and then uh pull it out and then add uh add an equal weight of sugar to make it into into simple syrup, and that's what I do. Right?
+
+[42:21] Right. Uh okay. Um Alexander writes in uh hello everyone. I we look so Alexander asked about black garlic. Uh and I have to say I've been running around, but I'm gonna I'm gonna read the I'm gonna read this anyway.
+
+[42:34] I've always been under the belief that it is a slow myard reaction, that the whole fermentation thing is just a translation error between some uh languages and English. Our head chef, however, disagrees, which led me to sit down and do some reading. I came over an article in which uh you don't have full access. By the way, Alexander, whenever you need full access, go to Sci Hub. Just search Sci Hub and they dance around a lot.
+
+[42:56] So Science Direct, and I believe you quoted Science Direct Direct. Every once in a while, Science Direct will take a whole bunch of their journals and for a week or two they'll be off Sci-Hub, and then Sci-Hub will steal access to it again. So, you know, keep checking. Not that I'm telling people to steal, you know, whatever. Anyway, um, or call a friend who at a at a university.
+
+[43:18] Um so the argument is is that what happens with black garlic, which is where you put, you know, garlic, you wrap it, you keep it humid, and then you heat it up to relatively hot temperature. I forget what the number is, but hot enough that you know minimum 60. Yeah. Hot enough so that you're not really growing uh, you know, a culture, let's say, right? And then it turns black over time and sweet and the flavor, you know, transmogrifies into something delicious and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
+
+[43:46] And uh, you know, Johnny Hunter, I think was one of the early people who did like, you know, quick versions of it, because it used to be weeks and weeks and weeks at a lower temperature, and he's done quicker and quicker versions with rice cookers, with uh hot boxes and all that other stuff out of Mad Town. Anyway, so a lot for a long time it was thought of uh people would say it was like a fermentation process because they wanted to lump it in with other actual fermentation processes like miso, right? Uh now it I don't think it is, right? And so like this, what this study is is saying it it lists all of the um all of the the flora, you know, the the microflora that are in uh black garlic both before, during and after, and it shows that in fact there is some growth of you know different cultures in the black garlic over time. However, as far as I can see, in my extremely cursory reading of this article, it doesn't say, oh yes, and the flavor contributions that those bacterial culture, those bacteria that are not dead, right, make is blop blop and blob.
+
+[44:52] And so I think the vast majority of anything that's going on in uh this situation is in fact uh, you know, just as you say, just the the the slow cooking of it, right? Um I could be wrong, I often am, but uh I would say that if there is an actual fermentation going on, it is a minor constituent of uh what's going on. I feel like Ariel's written about this. And what did she say? Uh let me look at Oscar.
+
+[45:21] And then uh, you know, someone uh someone uh Quinn, reach out and see whether she has uh an answer for for this. Yeah, on the mad feed, she's there in her book. Uh I don't know. What does she say in the mad feed about it. Let me see.
+
+[45:33] Uh ask the doctor about black garlic. Yeah. Uh Johnny Midwest uh asked about uh smokers. Did anyone, Quinn, get to us on Discord about smokers that they recommend for outdoors? Um I I have to double check the responses to the form.
+
+[45:49] I have the Web well, you know, it's at my mom's now in Connecticut, but when I was living in Connecticut, I was using the Weber Bullet smoker, and I liked that a lot. I mean, I used to have one of those way back in the old days, but I figured that there's a much higher technology one than that now. Maybe are they automatically controlled? The way it used to be, we used to just stick the little butt. Do you and do you use the electric burner or do you use your own burner?
+
+[46:11] We used to have the one where you could either fire up your own smoke and put the chunks on top, or you could stick that little electric doodad, you know, that little squirrel heater. And you put it down low and you put up like a water name thing in the middle, yeah. By the way, going back to your other thing, water zooy, what the heck kind of name is that? Oh, I don't know. It's fun to say though, isn't it?
+
+[46:31] I mean it is, but is it the kind of have people been ordering it? Because it's kind of confusing to say. I think some people stay away from words that freak them out. Yeah, that's something I've been debating about. I mean, it just went on the menu on Saturday, so we'll see.
+
+[46:42] I think it's also gonna take a lot to change people's mind to think of coming to temperance for food rather than just coming for like the wine bar. Yes. What would you think about calling it fish soup? Amazing. Susan's right to the point.
+
+[46:55] No, I don't know. Yeah, we'll see. Well, you you also launched uh bitter balling, right? I saw an instrument. That's true.
+
+[47:00] That's a bit going down really well. Also, doesn't sound like what it is. No, true. But yeah, also for the ball. Because it's because it could do it to people like, oh that's the it's bitter balls.
+
+[47:09] Yeah. People don't want bitter balls. No, they do. Do they? No, but I mean they've been ordering it, so yeah.
+
+[47:14] Yeah. Yeah. Styles, what do you think? Fish soup or water zooy? Which would you go?
+
+[47:18] I think you styles might be a water zooy person. I don't know. No, fish soup. Fish soup. Remember the time, Styas, that we made uh that changwa, that Colombian milk soup, we made the fancy version.
+
+[47:31] And we kept on saying changwa, and people were like, what? We're like, changua. What? And then we're like, milk soup. And then they're like, all right.
+
+[47:42] I'll take them, I'll take the milk soup. All right. So that's one vote for the the Weber. Uh the recently, if you're gonna work inside, every a lot of people use the big chief and little chief because they're just so cheap, but they're not the best. You know what I mean?
+
+[47:56] Uh I've never had any experience with the uh I don't know whether you want one of the new fancy smokers. Like there's all these new fancy smokers. I've never used a uh Brunson, which he uses the pellets. Uh I think they're uh you know, some people hate on using pellets because they don't want anything pre-done for them, but then some people love the convenience of a pellet because it's just pellet go, pellet go, pellet go, and then you can put the smoke generator and you can make your own smoke box, and it's a lot easier with one of those things to do. If you're a cold smoke person, let's say, you can just put that through a you know, through a chilled flu, and you can get a much colder smoke.
+
+[48:33] You know what I'm saying? So I know some people love the I've I've had people make their own like Brunson versions that don't use pellets that use chips. So you can buy a uh lookup on McMaster Car cartridge heater, and because that's basically what a lot of those things are. So it's you shove a cartridge heater into uh a box and you just tune it by hand until it starts smoking, and then you put like chips, you know, soak chips over the cartridge heater, and you can do a DIY on on that as well. Uh, you know, the the fanciest one, uh, Chef Jeff Butler, he did a cartridge heater with a humidifier, and I think he put it through, I think he put it through a a jockey box that he could put ice into for doing dead cold smoke.
+
+[49:17] And once you do that, you can just, you know, port it into an old refrigerator and do whatever you want. So, you know, it goes anywhere from the lowest technology, which is like the the, you know, the little chief, big chief, which are just fundamentally, I think, just pieces of stamped aluminum with a heater in the bottom of them. Uh, and uh, you know, to the Weber bullet, which is still not really temperature controlled and it's only for hot smoking, to Brunson, I think they're called Brunson, and then like up from there, but I don't have a lot of current experience. I was hoping somebody on Discord would be. I would also recommend check out uh Meathead, AmazingRibs.com.
+
+[49:52] He has really good uh breakdowns of all these different types of things. I'm gonna help, I think, point you in the right direction. Yeah, we had him on the show, what, like four years ago? Five years ago. Maybe longer than that, but yeah.
+
+[50:02] Yeah. When his book came out. Um Rock Baker wrote in when can we expect the new edition to drop? Are you referring to the addition of the book or the addition of the spinzel or talking about the um secret intelligence? Yeah, sorry, Rock, I couldn't hear the question.
+
+[50:20] Uh Sean, Sean writes in and said, If I if I eat wheat, I sometimes, but not always experience a great deal of intestinal discomfort the next day. I've lived in Canada and the United States. Uh recently, I consumed a great deal of wheat for two weeks in London and Scotland with no appear uh apparent ill effects, including lots of the standard supermarket sandwiches on the go. This is made me wonder if my ailment may be limited to specific wheat varieties. Do you have any sense of how the wheat varieties that are primarily used, especially for mass market commodity crap, differ between the UK and North America?
+
+[50:51] And how would you set up a program of testing a variety of wheats at home to search for the evil ones? Well, that's an interesting question. Um, so Sean, straight up, maybe you're just allergic to the US and Canada. I'm kidding. Uh I don't I okay, I I know a lot of people talk about wheat varieties, especially older wheat varieties being significantly better for uh certain people's gut health than other varieties.
+
+[51:22] And they say a lot about how there's some sort of terrible thing about modern wheat. And I just don't believe most of it. Now, uh the vast majority of breads in, you know, bread flour, specifically bread flours, here are made with uh, you know, Canadian and like northern, like like North Dakota style uh hard wheats, right? Like hard winter bread wheat. Sorry, hard spring bread wheat.
+
+[51:57] So if you know very highly refined and it is very high protein, it works great for bread. So I would just buy uh now it's gonna be a little conflated. You can do it without a mill, you can do it in a vita prep. It's the loaves aren't gonna be the great. Uh actually, I have a gram recipe.
+
+[52:15] I have a gram bread recipe you can do. You can make crackers. Uh okay. But I would say in a vita prep, buy uh your a bog standard, like hard spring wheat, right? And use that mentally in place of um use that mentally in place of like standard bread here.
+
+[52:35] And then I would buy a middle of the road soft winter wheat, right? So the chorley wood process, which is the process by which Wonder Bread is made, was actually developed in England to make very fast loaves of bread using kind of lower protein English flowers. And the the English do import our stuff and Canada's stuff, but they also use some of their stuff in in the mix. So I would I would just try those two wheats. Then if you want a third wheat, get a soft uh get a soft uh winter, although it's not going to make great bread, and dope it.
+
+[53:14] You can dope it with with uh vital wheat gluten if you want, and just make a loaf or as Quinn says, a cracker or a porridge or a gruel with uh gruel, with uh with uh those three and see if you have a uh a uh a different because like you know, we have such good access to those, to that kind of like northern spring wheat, that's a possibility. Now, I don't know which varieties are super prevalent now, but you could also go back in time. If you get um an old uh wheat called Turkey uh Turkey Red, Turkey Red is actually the same wheat that was used in Hungary to make some of the best flowers in the world, you know, in the 1800s and the mid 1800s, back when Hungary was at the top of the uh of the flour mill game. Um, you know, I I wouldn't even know what a modern variety to test against is. Um, or you can just buy like a sack of King Arthur bread flour, because that's what that you know stuff is made out of, and then do that versus just buying a hard, uh hard uh uh uh hard winter wheat.
+
+[54:20] Yeah, usually clearly hard. Could they be sensitive to some sort of dope conditioner if they're only eating like prepared bread that they haven't made? Except for the UK is like I say, the godfather of messing with bread that way. So if they're having sandwiches in the UK, like I doubt it. In other words, like like usually like America is seen as the bad guy, but really it's England that ruined bread.
+
+[54:48] You know what I mean? Like what about all the like the niacin and the riboflavin that's added into the breads and stuff like that? Yeah, maybe. I would just be curious. I have the same problem.
+
+[55:01] Bread from scratch. Do they have the same effect? With like uh King Arthur, with like King Arthur or Hector's or something like this. An American wheat, yeah. And then you could actually buy on, you know, you could ha have someone ship you like standard uh bread flour from the UK, and you could see whether or not there is a difference there.
+
+[55:27] Might be the conditioners, but like I say, uh I don't know. I'm somewhat somewhat doubtful. Um like a lot of times, I just it's it it's only been a couple of hundred years, and while the the you know, the what's it called, the yields have gone way up on wheat, uh way up on wheat since the 1800s, way up. But uh, I just don't know that the varieties are that you know chemically or nutritionally different. I've never seen any real studies on it.
+
+[55:56] I've just heard people say, you know, they'll they'll say like red fife, ancient my butt, red fife is like maybe a couple hundred years old. You know what I mean? Uh from Canada, and it can be either winter or spring, and so it's gonna be different depending on on how it's grown, although I couldn't get that much of a taste difference because I've tried them both in flowers, but it's like, you know, it's not like, you know, the wheat of our ancestors, you know what I mean? It's still like a relatively tweaked out domesticated wheat. We domesticated this stuff thousands of years ago.
+
+[56:23] You know what I mean? Anyway, that's let me know though, because I'm highly interested. And like I said, I'm usually wrong about everything. Uh Maddie writes in, I'm a regular bread slash pizza baker, uh, and I've been making sourdough in in uh semi scare quotes. Would you say a single quote is like a semi-scare, like a little bit of afraid of a single?
+
+[56:41] And like super afraid of a double? Sure. Yeah. Uh sourdough roti for a new menu at work. Okay, using atta 75% uh 75% hydration on atta flour and 20% starter.
+
+[56:54] I've been curious, what makes flat breads like pita slash uh roti puff up and inflate? Ooh, this is a good question. Uh we are doing a leavened dough for roti, which is not traditional. Uh so I know it isn't fermentation bubbles uh that normally makes it puff. And there seems to be something to the rolling smashing down of the bread.
+
+[57:10] I've tried stretching like a pizza, thinking instinctively that would preserve bubbles, but it doesn't puff right. I've also tried rolling out ahead of time, uh, but those also fail to inflate. It seems important they get rolled out soon before cooking. Does anyone know the science that causes inflated uh pockets in these breads? Yes, Maddie.
+
+[57:25] Um here's what's going on. When you are making a leavened bread, or even like a crumpet style bread, right? Or even a flat pancake style bread, like in Jira, right? The bubbles that are formed when you're putting it on the pan, you get those crumpity or injera or or in regular bread, those big bubbles. All of those bubbles are formed during the mixing, right?
+
+[57:49] And then just increased during the leavening section, right? And so that's why, you know, the actual folding over of the bread, if you're doing like a no-need recipe, that that fold that you do, and then you kind of, you know, mid or two thirds of the way through and you fold it makes a difference because you're including more air bubbles in and smacking it down. When you're puffing something, right, you're not using inflated bubbles. You're using this bubbles that have already started, and you're trying to make one giant bubble. And so what you need is a high hydration dough.
+
+[58:20] It's important that you have a high hydration dough that is machinable, right? Which is why you don't want to roll it out too far in advance because you don't want it to dry out. You don't want the inside to dry out, but you need to dry out the outside. You need to have a wet inside with a dry outside. That's why.
+
+[58:36] Normally, when you're doing it, it's one side down, right? Cook it until it sets, flip it, cook the other side till it sets, flip again, put over fire. It sometimes starts puffing on the first flip. But as soon as it sets, then you can heat the middle, which is still liquid, up uh you still has, you know, not set yet, up to boiling, create that steam bubble, and it separates the two cooked things. If, and this is why with pita, what typically what you'll do is you'll roll it out, you'll let it leaven a little bit, but you'll let the outsides dry a little bit, but not so that it gets cracked, right?
+
+[59:08] So then boom, it automatically has a way to hold the air in while it puffs. So it's all about high hydration dough, where you're not overcooking it so that there's still a layer in the middle that can puff up. So that's kind of the secret. High hydration, which is why you want whole wheat flour, right? In your that's why atta is good.
+
+[59:26] It's a very fine, so it's not gonna bond together into like little bricks. It's gonna, it needs to be very fine, finely, finely, finely milled flour. And the finely milled atta flour has extremely good uh good water holding capacity because of the of the brand in it and because of all of the damaged arch. That's why it's particularly good for this. But I don't know what uh adding bubbles in terms of sourdough is gonna do it.
+
+[59:49] I would just try making a standard first and get a thing, roll them out. Uh, there's a lot of good uh uh videos uh of people rolling them out. Uh I have gotten good, you know, or was at one point good at doing the the magical rolling technique where it automatically rolls itself, but I found it really doesn't matter as long as you don't tear it. And the temperatures are critical. So just practicing you get the temperatures right.
+
+[1:00:11] Uh, you know, the first time you do it, 10% will puff. The second time, 30%, then 50%, then 60%, then 80%. I was at a good 80%, 85%, 90% full puff, and I'd have to start from zero again because people who do this for a living make it every day. Anyway, let me know what's going on. Uh cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, New Stand Studios, joined as usual with Johnson Crossman. How are you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yeah.
+
+[0:21] Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels. What's up?
+
+[0:25] Hey, how are you doing? Yo, yo, yo. Over in uh, well, actually, where are you right now, Anastasia the Hammer Lopez? In California. California.
+
+[0:36] California. And uh Jackie Molecules also, I think in California right now. How are you doing? Yes, sir. I'm good.
+
+[0:43] Yeah, and of course, also holding down the upper left. Quinn, how you doing? Yeah, firmly planted. Yeah. All right.
+
+[0:53] So uh since I had so much happen in the last week, why don't you guys go first? And uh what do you guys got for me? Uh what was what was going on in the in the food world in the last week. Well, Michelle Garrett died the other day. Oh, I didn't know that.
+
+[1:07] Yeah. Yeah. Did not know that. Yeah. One of the big Nouvelle cuisine people.
+
+[1:11] Uh Cuisine Mancelle. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Although, you know, uh, I've never, of course, been to any of his restaurants or the spas or anything like that. Uh I only I knew a uh you know a bunch of people who cooked with him, but I never met met him personally.
+
+[1:25] But you know, a giant that I'm sure most young people have never ever heard of. Seriously. Not once. Well, I don't know if you know this. He never had a TikTok channel.
+
+[1:35] True. You know, was just a rancid YouTuber, just not very good at the YouTube at all. Insta account garbage. Garbage. You know what I mean?
+
+[1:47] Yeah, well. He was in his late 80s. So you know what I mean? Not hip with the times. Not holding it down.
+
+[1:52] No Tony Bennett. Not the Tony Bennett of the Chef World. So who is the Tony Bennett of the Chef World? Dude Caspit. I mean, Juffan because it's media presence.
+
+[2:05] I mean, he's got like a media team. Yeah, Jackie Peeps. Yeah. He's still poster. Yeah.
+
+[2:11] And you think like all the young folk know about the Peep Show? No. No? No. I don't think they do.
+
+[2:17] People need to check out the Jacques Papin. That was fun having him on the time, remember? Yeah. He's great. Yeah.
+
+[2:23] Yeah, fun guy. So he's the Tony Bennett of the Chef World. Maybe. I don't know who Tony Bennett is. Oh, geez.
+
+[2:33] Quinn. Quinn. Quinn. Quinn. Quinn.
+
+[2:37] Quinn. Quinn. Quinn. Let's rewind your life, like about 30 seconds and start fresh. Tony Bennett.
+
+[2:49] Tony Bennett. You of all people, Italian heritage. In the in, you know, in North America. Don't know Tony Bennett. That's so hardcore, man.
+
+[3:02] That's so hardcore. I've I I just I don't hey. I mean, like one of the most famous singers. Iconic, yeah. And not only that, like Italian, he changed his name from Benedetto in uh, I guess during World War II.
+
+[3:18] World War II era? When was it? I think so. Yeah. To Tony Bennett.
+
+[3:22] Because you know, we're racist. And uh and he stayed famous and popular his entire life. So in the 80s, when I guess he was in the his 60s or whatever, you know, uh 50s or fifties or sixties, like he became he he he um made friends with a bunch of like young punk rock musicians, and so he stayed like flea was friends with Tony Bennett. And so like they he just stayed current all the time. Well then most recently, like right before he died, it was Lady Gaga that he was working with, I think.
+
+[3:53] Yeah, yeah. I mean the guy was nuts. The guy, like, you know, he made a habit of you know, uh always supporting and being friends with uh you know younger crowd, and so he stayed current the whole time. His voice stayed decent. He changed what he could do, but you know, he stayed decent.
+
+[4:07] He I saw an uh heard an interview, he um, you know, right before he retired from public uh appearances like I practiced the bell conto. I was like, he doesn't talk like that, or didn't back when his laugh. Anyway, Quinn, this is a hole. This is a hole in your uh in your experience that you need to rectify quickly. You know, sometimes Quinn, I don't know.
+
+[4:24] Because I say to you once, I said to you, well, you know, have you seen Big Knight? You're like, well, of course I've seen Big Knight. And then but then like, you know, yeah, like I care about cooking. I I care zero about music. Wow.
+
+[4:39] Like the most the most popular, like surface level stuff. That everyone would know. But I I can't remember, did you not so you see obviously okay, you know, big night seen it. But like remember that the big plot of big night, aside from food is music, yeah. Louis Prima, another like Italian guy that you you know, I you told me before you don't listen to, right?
+
+[5:02] Yeah, whatever, man. You do you do you? You do you, you do you all day long. Anyway, uh all right, so uh what else we got uh in the in the in the weekend review. So I haven't had any incredible meals, but I have a question for the field here.
+
+[5:17] Uh-huh. Uh I was recently at a restaurant that I would say is not like high high end, not like Michelin Star High End, but expensive enough to be like, you know, this is a good meal out. Um, and you know, they did the thing that a lot of people do now. It's like, you know, you ask for something to go and they just sort of bring you the court container or like, you know, the stuff and they're like, you do it. Right.
+
+[5:38] When is that acceptable and unacceptable? You mean from a price point perspective? Yeah, you know, because I think for me, I expect at a certain level, I'm like, well, this has crossed the threshold of, you know, price point where I should be expected to pack my own leftovers. So post pan wait, so there's two things. There's one, the leftover just comes in a core container in a plastic bag, sticking to it and it ends up on your on your table, right?
+
+[6:03] There's nicely packing it and handing it to you as you go. There's dropping it in the core container on your table in a nasty plastic sack, and then there is make you pack. U pack. So you're you're at the UPAC stitch. Wait, we got it, we gotta And no, no, there's not a call.
+
+[6:17] But then there's a friend of mine who brings her own Tupperware to the restaurant for having to put the food in the tubware. And you've remained friends. That's genius. That's so disruptive. Oh yeah.
+
+[6:29] Yeah. Well, you know, that's like, you know, no offense to to you know, David from GlassFan. You should go and get the get the promotion from GlassFan, 10% off GlassFan with uh promo code Dave Marnell, but I'm never bringing my own glasses to a restaurant, not ever. Ever. Not ever.
+
+[6:45] Not one time. I do bring Nastasi and I have been known to bring our own arugula, but only, only after how many times, Stas? French? No, put the pizza. How many?
+
+[6:58] So many. So many. Yeah. Nastasi gave it. Oh well, they had a salad of arugula.
+
+[7:05] Yeah. But they wouldn't. Yeah. You know why? Because they didn't like us.
+
+[7:11] We brought our own couple for that. That was obnoxious. Yeah, yeah, that's obnoxious. That's obnoxious. Or like uh, I've been known to bring my own crushed red pepper to places if I know they're but only if I know they're not gonna have it.
+
+[7:25] You know what I'm saying? Anyway. The arugulu thing was more just Nastasi and I making a point. Because they owned it, but they wanted to save it for their salad. And we were literally like, you've all have any of you seen Five Easy Pieces?
+
+[7:38] Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. So for those of you who haven't seen it, it's an early Jack Nicholson movie. And the famous thing is he's like, he wants toast.
+
+[7:46] And the server is like, we don't have toast. And he's like, You have a chicken salad sandwich, and they say, Yeah, yeah, can I have the chicken salad sandwich on toast? And she's like, Yeah. She's like, Well then I want a chicken salad sandwich, hold the chicken salad. And so they're like, What do you want me to where do you want me to hold the chicken salad?
+
+[8:05] I want you to hold it between your knees like that. That's him like trying to get the thing. And it was the same thing with Stas and I and the things like you have a freaking arugula salad. I'll buy the salad, put it on the pizza, and they wouldn't do it. In fact, they refused to bring us the arugula once we said that's what we were gonna do.
+
+[8:22] But you would sit at the table with the clamshell of arugula on the table next to you. You was really pretty obnoxious. But you know what I loved about Robertus? Gotta give love where love is deserved. Chili oil on the table at all times.
+
+[8:39] Chili oil on the table at all times. Love chili oil. Yeah. Chili oil, good product. Uh oh, here's a weird non-food thing before you guys finish more stuff in the food, but I have to.
+
+[8:50] So, for those of you that have been listening over the past, however many, whatever. My son Dax was working in Alaska, right? Uh in Juneau, Alaska. Now, the way gold works is this. Uh when uh, you know, panning for gold.
+
+[9:03] So you have these high, very steep mountains, and you have like a lot of snow packed that melts and makes these kind of fast rushing, so like almost straight down streams. And when they're doing that, any gold that's in them their hills washes down to the bottom of the of the of where the streams flatten out. You go down there, you scoop up a boat ton of silt, you get rid of the the really, really, really fine silt, and then you sit there and you float the because gold is the heaviest damn thing in there, right? But you know, by weight. You float off all the other rocks and whatnot and a panning thing, and you get gold left over.
+
+[9:33] So we go to the gold mining museum in Juneau, and there are a couple real hardcore, like outdoor, like zero percent body fat burnt by the sun to crisp, like maybe they were meth heads, I don't know. You know what I mean? Like panning for gold, right? And they strike up a really cool conversation, like with you know, my Dax is there, and you know, for old time fans of the show, his dirtbag buddy Nico. So Nico and Dax are there, and we're talking to these people about panning for gold.
+
+[10:01] And did I say this before? The best piece of information I've ever learned from a human being. Did I tell you guys this one? The guy goes, the guy goes, see the side of the mountain over there, see the rocks? I'm like, Yeah, he's like, see how they're red?
+
+[10:12] Yeah, that's iron. You know what they say? I say, What? They say gold rides an iron horse. And I was like, What?
+
+[10:19] Like you're panning for gold. You look around, you gotta have some red rocks around because why? Because gold rides an iron horse. And I was just like, That's sick. That's sick.
+
+[10:29] That's awesome. That's like everyone's biography should be gold rides an iron horse. So, anyway, so I'm like, I'm never gonna see these fellas again. That's awesome. And I never did.
+
+[10:37] So Nico, of course, is in the shop selling whatever he is, phone cards and whatever else. Guy walks in. One of the guys walks in, the zero percent f body fat guy, no shirt, still walks in, middle of town, no shirt, pays for a pair of sneakers from Nico in gold flakes. In gold flakes. Nico's like, I have no idea how much this is worth.
+
+[10:58] He's like, you know what? I would love to get paid in gold flakes just once in my life. So he took it and he's like, I'll absorb any difference. I'll absorb any difference so I can get paid in gold flakes. I was like, Alaska, man, Alaska's crazy.
+
+[11:10] Uh yeah, all right. So what else? What else you guys got? Uh I actually missed something last week for my sister-in-law's birthday. We did a Mexican theme, and I was in charge of dessert.
+
+[11:29] So instead of a truth leche, I made an ocho leche cake. Mm-hmm. We had a conversation. Why an even number? You know everybody hates even numbers.
+
+[11:40] Why even? Well, I thought Ocho sounded the best. I mean, siete is a cool word. I think ultra was similar. Okay.
+
+[11:51] Anyway, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. So what were the eight milks?
+
+[11:55] What is the what is the crowd think? What's a better sounding number of Spanish milk? Uh Keensay. Gotta go 15. 15 milks.
+
+[12:07] First of all, has to be odd. 15 milks. Oh, wait, lazy? Lazy? Anyway, so like what what were the eight milks?
+
+[12:18] Okay, regular cow milk. Obviously. Home milk. Uh goat milk. Regular evaporated milk.
+
+[12:29] Milk powder. Uh yogurt. I counted as a milk. Okay. All right.
+
+[12:37] And then three levels of caramelization for free and condensed milk. I don't know, man. That seems like you're cheating on that last one. How about sheep milk? We can get sheep milk.
+
+[12:54] Camel milk. Yak milk. That'd be awesome, right? So you'd say you're counting three different levels of caramel. Let me ask you this, in all seriousness.
+
+[13:05] Putting a lightly caramelized, a medium caramelized, and a fully now fully caramelized is going to be burnt tasting. So there was there was like there was uncaramelized. So there was regular three caramelized. You had four all day, right? You had three levels of caramelization and one uncaramelized.
+
+[13:22] I misspoke. Two caramelized and then unaltered. And so what do you what did you get out of two different levels of caramelization in the in the in the milk? Or was it a mistake? That you just added together.
+
+[13:37] What do you get out of the two different levels? Different like flavors. Right. But you think in other words, you think that was like better than or just an experiment, better than just choosing the one level of caramelization that you like the best. In other words, do you think it was noticeable in the end result and better to have two different caramelized?
+
+[14:03] I'm not arguing with that. I didn't taste it, but I'm saying you think it was better. Yeah, I do. Alright. Okay.
+
+[14:10] Like was it one really dark? Like to the point of bitter. To the point of like the point of like root in that line. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[14:14] And that one I paired. The reason there was three soaks. And each soak had two milks. And then there were two other components with a milk each. Oh, so it's by the by the layer.
+
+[14:31] So you could break it apart if you're like, I hate those, I hate those milks, then I could avoid those milks in their entirety. Yeah. I'm gonna say something very unpopular. I don't like soaked cakes. It's me though.
+
+[14:45] I don't like I don't like it. You know what it is? It's the way that they break apart. It's the way that when you put them in your mouth, the the the crumb is like and comes apart. Don't like.
+
+[14:56] You know what I mean? Like babas, all those things. I could do without them. I I'll eat them. I don't hate them.
+
+[15:02] I could do without them. You know what I'm saying? If someone said to me, I'm gonna give you a wet cake, or they said, I'm gonna give you a cake, I'd be like, I'll take the cake over the wet cake. Who I mean who what about what about you guys? You wet cake people?
+
+[15:20] I'll I enjoy it, but like yeah, I guess I'm gonna order it. What about you, Stas? You're gonna say something. I don't really understand. Give me like a real like description, like a real thing.
+
+[15:31] In translation, yeah. Yeah, you you make it, you make like a sheet cake and you soak the hell out of it with liquid, and then you like pretend that it's a cake again. Yeah. I mean, the French used to do it all the time because Genoise is the worst cake in the world. So they take a a trash can cake, like by all by all accounts, trash, filth.
+
+[15:52] And then they like pour rum or other stuff into it to try to take this dry, terrible cake and make it palatable. Like that's good. What about tiramisu? Don't like it. What?
+
+[16:06] Yeah. Okay, look, I I don't hate it. First of all, you know what? When I want coffee, I'll drink it. You know what I mean?
+
+[16:13] Like, I don't need it in like I don't need it in cocktail form. I don't need it in like uh ice cream form. I don't know. I I can eat it. I don't hate it, but I'm never like I want a coffee flavored thing.
+
+[16:24] So when you combine a coffee flavored thing with What about Coffee Crisp? Coffee crisp. Is this like a cookie crisp reference? Do you like cookie crisps? No, the chocolate barrel too.
+
+[16:37] Oh, yeah. That's how you like it. I do, I do. I like I like some in general. Coffee is not my favorite flavoring for things.
+
+[16:45] I like coffee. You know what I mean? Especially if I don't like the texture of it. Are you guys all tiramisu freaks? How are your feelings on tiramisu?
+
+[16:54] I like it. I like it. Yeah. You know what I like? And the name of it just went out of my head.
+
+[16:57] What is it? Oh, when they make the big ice cream thing and it's tartufo. I love it when a waiter comes in in like a big Italian Tartufo and it's the big like ice cream ball thing. I don't know why. I just like the word.
+
+[17:08] It's like I will go steal a second one just so I can hear someone say tartufo. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's good. Uh I mean, it's a good word. Um, all right.
+
+[17:17] What else? What else? What else you guys got? Because I got so much. I was in Korea and I went to so many places.
+
+[17:24] Ate so much. I got I got one more. What do you got? No one else has. What do you got?
+
+[17:29] Just a little experiment. I made my riff on sogbaneer. Oh, nice. All right. So I followed a pretty classical sort of recipe.
+
+[17:41] Well, it's sort of amalgamed, if they were maligned like four recipes. Okay. Uh pre-Christian recipe, a Maharaj recipe, and then like two random online recipes that were in Hindi. So I'm like, okay, this, you know, network of ingredients should sort of average out. Right.
+
+[18:06] I did not know that you could read Hindi. That's awesome. Like Google Translate, you Google Translate of those suckers? Google Translate. Oh, yeah.
+
+[18:13] Yeah. Uh so let me ask this. Uh how did you treat the spinach? Do you squeeze the did you squeeze the ever loving snod out of it, or do you just let it kind of sit its own filth? We used uh kale and chard.
+
+[18:26] Oh, well, how sog then? To to use your kind of phrase where you change anything and it's not that thing anymore, like you did to me on the Shaksuka when all I did was low temp the eggs and add them afterwards. Spinach is pelic beer. Uh Sog is like mustard greens. Ah, well, you use that too.
+
+[18:45] Closer. No cigar. No cigar. All right. Kale.
+
+[18:52] What was the other one? Kale and what? Chard? Chard. You know what?
+
+[18:56] Anyone that cooks their freaking chard. I mean, uh, cooks their kale, I'm happy with. Anytime, anytime kale gets cooked, I'm a happy guy. Anytime it's not like recooked, re-cooked the crib without kale. Yeah, good.
+
+[19:09] That's the way God wants kale to be consumed. Was not designed to be a raw green. You know what I mean? If you have to slice it so thin that you can't notice its texture, in order to consume it properly when it's raw, maybe it shouldn't be raw. You know what I mean?
+
+[19:24] If you have to eat it as a tiny little baby in order to eat a whole leaf and not be like, oh, what the hell is that, right? Or have to massage it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I like mine with turkey sausage. Yeah?
+
+[19:36] Mm-hmm. Cooking. Cooking turkey sausage? Shallots and garlic. Do you know when I was growing up what my favorite it wasn't?
+
+[19:42] It was uh escarrol. Oh yeah. Yeah, escarol. Oh yeah, eat that all day. My mom, my mom, her thing was she would cut up, you know, you know, oh old times, like, you know, 80s, 70s.
+
+[19:55] She would cut up a pepperoni and bacon. She would fry the bacon, pepperoni, garlic, then throw in the can of uh the can of beans, and then the escarole weld it all down. She used the uh cannellini beans and then uh and then but that was uh one of my favorite things growing up. Eat that, your meat, your beans, your greens all in one all in one McGillo. Can't lose.
+
+[20:18] Now when I make it, I add a little mustard too. My mom didn't, I don't think used to add mustard, but I add a little mustard because John, what is mustard make? Everything delicious. That is correct. Ding.
+
+[20:28] Ding ding ding. Uh speaking of everything delicious, how is the uh how is the uh Belgian menu faring? Good. Everything the last two dishes are gonna be rolled out by Friday. I don't give a give us a preview.
+
+[20:40] Well, steak of power, so hanger steak. Okay, talk to me about your poiv sauce, your apuives sauce. So the green peppercorns and brine. Um Do you have to soak them or can you use them straight out of the brine? Straight out of the brine.
+
+[20:52] Okay. Um really spicy. Uh, so you have to use them in moderation, then the sauce I do black pepper the steak or no. Is there any black pepper involved at all? There isn't more in the sauce.
+
+[21:05] I haven't decided whether or not yet I wanted to crust the steak. Are you a believer that I like pepper crusted and burnt? And people are like, it's bitter, and I'm like, and? No, it's good. Yeah.
+
+[21:15] No, no, it's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just trying to figure out the like the spice level of it. Ums. You remember back when Steingarden used to tell us that we were idiots for putting pepper on beforehand and that it loses all of its aromatics, and we're like, we can add it afterwards too, Jeffrey.
+
+[21:34] It's not all or nothing, my friend. I can't get in touch with him, Stas. You try. Maybe he'll answer you. I have tried, I have tried, uh I tried getting in touch with uh his wife, Karen.
+
+[21:45] I try getting in touch with him. The guy's off the map. I don't know what happened. I mean, last time we saw him, he wasn't in such great physical shape, but I I don't know. I feel like I would know if he was completely gone.
+
+[21:54] You know what I mean? So yeah, you you you have better luck with this stuff than I do. Okay, I'll try it. Yeah. Uh yeah.
+
+[22:03] Um yeah, the sauce. Sauce, yeah. So beef stock um, you know, made beforehand, and then the sauce start off with uh really browning like the meat scraps from the trim. Oh, yeah. Wait, do you brown this steak or do you brown yesterday's steak today?
+
+[22:20] In other words, are you saving yesterday's deglaze so that you don't have to worry about it today, or is he doing it pan by pan? Right now doing it pan by pan. I anticipate it being a complete nightmare. Well, no, not with that, actually, I guess. Like the meat reduction stuff I put into cup containers and have frozen.
+
+[22:36] Um but yeah, sear the meat really hard, add the beef stock, reduce it. So far, yeah, old school. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, like there's nothing crazy about this. And yeah.
+
+[22:46] Do you cream it? Yeah, cream at the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
+
+[22:50] So shallots. No one uh we used used to add like some cognac, yakity yak. A little sugar. Little sugar? No.
+
+[22:59] Mustard too. Yeah, of course. Obviously, no, no, I should try the little bear. Yeah. I mean, not early because you don't want it to like right before it finishes just to like take the edge off.
+
+[23:11] Round it out, yeah. Take the edge off that take the edge off that pepper and like kind of like integrate the integrate the yak. Yeah. Yak's totally dry. Yeah.
+
+[23:19] Cause like, you know, I think I first said, because like one time I did it with like a sweeter wine, like uh, I don't know, like a masala or something like that. And it uh I like the sweetness. Okay. A little bit. Not a bow tonight.
+
+[23:29] Not like you know what I mean? I'll give it a go. You think people are afraid of adding sugar to things now? I think a little bit of sugar helps a lot of things. Agreed.
+
+[23:39] Yeah. Especially in dressings and things like that. It's underpaid for in recipes. Right, but do you think that's because commercial preparations are so sweet, like Domino's pizza sauce and like, you know, a lot of like, you know, stock uh Chinese American food and that's so much sugar is consumed, everyone's like, no, no, I mean it's sweet. I mean sweet.
+
+[24:02] I know no one said made it sweet. Just said a little bit. I think it's also a misunderstanding of where the sugars come from. You know, it's like corn syrup, you know, not all sugars are the same, and people just dumb. So, yeah.
+
+[24:14] Anyway. Um, all right. So uh I was in Korea and I went to so many places. First of all, here's something you should never do. You should never get on a 14 hour plane ride that lands at 5 a.m.
+
+[24:32] and then have your prep for your demo start at 10 a.m. and then have your demo be at 12 that day. This is what we refer to as stupid. Stupid. And whatever happened with you, you were bringing stuff in your luggage.
+
+[24:50] Oh, yeah, I forgot. I was talking about that. It all worked. No one said anything to me. It all works.
+
+[24:54] So I blended the uh I found I went to eight places, found the red habaneros, because I always got to use by the way, I got to use the new roto the newer style rotovaps. Super interesting. Super expensive. So um yeah, it all works. So I blended the habaneros one to one so that the ABV would be uh high, but I wouldn't have to carry a lot of volume with me.
+
+[25:13] And then I just added more vodka while I was over there and then and then redistilled it. Uh so I finally got to use the fancy controller that Nastasi and I never got a hold of on the roto vap and style, it does make life a boat ton easier. It's not perfect yet. It's not perfect because it's still designed by lab weasels. But you get to keep No, no, no, no, I'll got to keep it.
+
+[25:38] My argument with the my argument with them was uh you're gonna want to show the fanciest one so that you know people are gonna want it. But the the issue is if you haven't used the fancy one, and you i if you just take on rotary evaporation as a thing you want to do, which is by the way, for those of you who don't know what we're talking about, it's a vacuum distillation. But for the kind of work that we do where you're distilling something in the and the the boiling point keeps changing, right? You want to keep changing the vacuum uh pressure so that you can keep uh you can keep the distillation going at the exact same rate the whole time. So that's you know, that's the the thing.
+
+[26:14] I also use the boilover sensor styles. You would have loved it. You literally push a button and walk away from it. You put push a button, walk away. When are you reverse engineering this?
+
+[26:23] So, like back when I was at the FCI, like uh we were making a a uh one for the bar, and then it we just realized, hey, nobody wants this. So we stopped. Uh you know, maybe now if we were in another country, we could, because the sad thing is is that a lot of them, even though like we're demonstrating like Bukey, they're all buying, you know, really cheap ones off of Alibaba. But the real thing is that uh, you know, if you're gonna build it into everyday practice and you don't have the good control, I guess it's only a matter of time before the the knockoff ones in Alibaba also have the good controllers, but you really need a good controller and a good chiller. That's the that's the thing.
+
+[27:05] But in the United States, there's still just not enough of a market for it. Maybe there is in Asia and because how many would we have to sell? It's such a heartache. Anytime we take on a product, you know, John Quint, everyone here but Jack and and Joe can commiserate on this. It's just such a heartache to try to bring a product into the world.
+
+[27:24] Yeah, especially our product, we have to tell people why they need them. We have to justify the price, we have to deal with the manufacturer. And tell people to go to spin bullet.com and pre-order their spinzel today. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, or maybe like if you're in Asia, we still have like 30 of them over there, and you can buy them and they'll arrive right away.
+
+[27:46] You know, things you have to do. The things you do for love. Like walking in the rain and snow. Nowhere to go. You know?
+
+[27:52] You know, Dave. I think the question on everyone's mind. You demonstrated this new root. Uh-huh. And then after that was it clean.
+
+[28:04] Oh, uh, by other people. Yeah. That's my favorite way to go. Did you tell them? Uh did you did your children?
+
+[28:12] Well, Queen. Queenful stuff. Uh, you know why I did there was no licking involved. So this saves me from getting canceled. And the reason is is because we had the boilover sensor.
+
+[28:22] So there is not one speck of licking involved. It never even got close. It would go up. So for those of you who don't know, the way it works is you have a liquid. I used the Nastasia the hammer Lopez technique, which it was her idea to add SPL to the someone in the audience was like, You can add SPL to prevent boilovers.
+
+[28:43] I was like, I know. Nastasia taught me that ten years ago. Joker, idiot! I didn't say that. Uh so I was like, uh, yeah, Stas was like, why don't we just add SPL?
+
+[28:53] Because like we we used to sit around when you first start a boil, you're not actually boiling it, you're getting rid of the gas that's in it. And like the things that tend to hold foam, um, the gas vapors move so quickly through the flask that it looks like you're setting off a model rock. It's just a bam, just goes right through the right through the thing. And you know, classic, like what we used to call vegan face, Nastasi would make when it would blast it through, and then she would just sit there shaking her head. How you how unpleasant was this, Nastasi?
+
+[29:21] So unpleasant, right? So unpleasant, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So all of our in would break the machine.
+
+[29:27] Remember that? That was the word. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So me, I'm thinking, because we had done demos, vacuum demos all the time. So one of the good uses for a vacuum pump is to de-aerate something.
+
+[29:38] So if you like, let's say you make a gazpacho and you use a blender instead of chopping, it gets like the color gets all ruined, right? So you c because there's air in it. So you can stick your gazpacho in a like a wide, tall tub in your vacuum machine, suck a vacuum on it, and as soon as it goes up, you'll see it rises way, way, way up in the cambro, and then boom, falls, and then starts boiling. And once you do that, no more air in it. But it's that r initial rise, which is way higher before the fall, that you need to to get done.
+
+[30:07] So Nastasia's brilliant idea was to add uh an enzyme to the fruit puree so that it just didn't have the viscosity and it wouldn't boil as hard. So yes, we did also do that, but the boilover was the boilover sensor, but it's like two or three grand, Stas. It's so expensive. Anyway. Whatever.
+
+[30:35] Whatever. But I did get to make my favorite, uh, one of my favorite, one of my top favorite of all times. I did the the habanero uh redistillation with the clarified grapefruit juice. Yeah. Good.
+
+[30:48] By the way, also crazy, get this. So you know how I use polydextrose a lot now? I've talked about it on air a bunch of times, right? So polydextrose, I love it. I love it.
+
+[30:57] We have a 50-pound sack. So I finally find a 50-pound sack, and guess what just happened? Tate and Lyle, the biggest producer, the one that we use, I think there's another one producer of uh they for some reason have a shortage now. And so now that I finally found the source, we're in a shortage. We're in like a worldwide polydextrose shortage.
+
+[31:13] Of course there is. Of course there is. Um anyway, of course there is. So uh the people who had me over there uh were uh Odd uh Stronbachen and uh Alyssa Height, who uh husband and wife team running the Charles H. Bar at the four seasons, which is kind of cool.
+
+[31:29] I you very rarely see that in a hotel. You see that like in like a single owner thing. That bar actually, the first head person at that bar was Chris Lauder, who worked with me back at Booker and Dak. So it's like a full circle situation. Four seasons, nice hotel.
+
+[31:41] Four seasons sold, nice hotel, nice hotel. And uh worked with uh Sophie Han at L VMH over there, whistle pig and Bukey. Anyway, so here are the here are the places. For I went to a bunch of places. I got I don't know, I shouldn't mention them all.
+
+[31:54] I'm gonna do a uh what's it called? Instagram so I can put them all. Otherwise, we're gonna sit here and I'm gonna talk about because I literally, in the course of three nights, went to one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten bars. And uh, yeah, ten bars and actually had drinks, right? But to me, the fun thing over there, like the thing that I most want to do over here is makali.
+
+[32:14] So mockali is like their rice, uh brewed rice product and a bunch of different forms. But instead of using koji, they use something called Naruk, where what you do is you take wheat and you kind of crack it, and then you take wheat flour, and then you you very low hydration, you knead the heck out of it until it starts kind of forming until it has a slight bind to it, and then you step on it, you put it in like cheesecloth kind of thing in a mold, and you step on it, crush it down until it forms a kind of a brick, like a solid brick, like you're making a brick. Then you put it in straw or some other form of like you know, vegetation in like a humid box, and you you let it mold out for days, turn it all, you know. Oh wow, days, days, days, weeks, and then you dry it. Uh put it in the sun to you know, disinfect all of all that.
+
+[33:00] I don't know how much of that's real, all like the kind of hoo-ha, but then you break that up and you add that to you can add to a bunch of things. One of the steamed rice, there's a bunch of different ways to do it. And then you get mockali, which is these, they're kind of unfiltered, most of them are unfiltered, and you actually have to turn it upside down, up, up, down, up, down, and they have like champagne style where there's residual carbonation where they bottle it uh and then they uh bottle it, allow it to ferment some more, and it gets really carbonated. It's just a really delicious, fun beverage that is kind of a living beverage, so you can't get it over here because the pasteurized stuff isn't you can get it, but the pasteurized stuff's went way. You know what I mean?
+
+[33:35] And there's just a huge range of flavors, like in the way that there's a huge range of flavors in beers, there's a huge range of flavors. So some of them go through different kinds of uh not just acetic, but also like citric and malic uh acid, some of them are low acid, and the alcohol levels can be really high, even though they're just yeast fermentations like really high. Like some of them are low, and some of them are really high. So, like uh, I don't know, it's super interesting. Um, enough of that, but I brought you some Korean snacks.
+
+[34:04] Yeah? So to taste out. Now, the Orion Corporation, right? Makes a gummy. Now, I I thought kasugai gummy.
+
+[34:13] That's the what's your gummy of note? Like, if you're gonna go non-European gummy, what's your gummy of note? I don't know. What about European gummy? Harbo?
+
+[34:22] Yeah. Yeah. What about you guys? You guys uh you guys have any gummy feeling? I know Nastasia must have some gummy feelings.
+
+[34:30] I for always forget because you have to remind me, I should remember, I should be a better friend. Which are the colors that you hate and which are the colors that you like? I like the black um berries and not the red one. So you don't like the red bears. This so if Nastasia Lopez hands you a handful of red bears, she's gonna pretend.
+
+[34:51] Oh, berries. What about the bears, though? Don't you have different gummy bear colors that you don't like? You've many times blind tasted all the colors of all the candies and like been able to pick them out. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[35:00] I only like the white bear. You only like the white bears. So if Nastasia's gonna give you a handful of bears, you're gonna notice that there's no white bears in it, and she's gonna pretend like she's doing you a favor rather than foisting her spence on you. Well, no, Dave, because you can't taste the flavors. So what does it matter?
+
+[35:14] I don't think I've ever blinded them. I just don't bel I just didn't believe you until you blinded them. I just don't care because what I do is take a handful of them and shove them in my mouth. That's how I operate. Yeah.
+
+[35:29] Yeah. So these gummies, uh Happy Fruit Orion. Where's the camera? It's a there it is. Yeah.
+
+[35:39] So this might be like the most technically advanced gummy I've ever had in my life. Okay. It's kiwi. So put that there. Green kiwi.
+
+[35:49] I'm gonna hand these out. So the inside and the outside have a different texture. And not only do the inside and the outside, it's kind of like it looks much softer on the inside, but they have seeds on the inside, so it mimics the seed texture. Eat that thing. It's delicious.
+
+[36:02] It's delicious. You ever had a gummy like that? That is pretty crazy. That's a good gummy. They have kyoho grape gummies, but they don't have the little seeds in them.
+
+[36:12] I mean, like the seed technology just takes it. That's really good. That's just that's like a nutty product. You said they had grape ones too? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[36:19] Kyoho, they have several varieties of grape. Concorde. Well, the Kyoho uh has uh some of that Concord Fox. I believe it's a I believe it is a um, you know, uh that style with a vinifera cross. I think.
+
+[36:33] I don't know. I don't know. Here's another one. Look at this. Look at this, folks.
+
+[36:38] So this is a uh a fried chicken snack, right? Now, uh I don't can't read any of it because there's not even one little bit of uh like chicken in a biscuit? Yeah, but it's just like little fried chicken drumsticks, but it's all in like uh it it's all in in Korean script, so I can't read it. But the what's awesome about it is it opens like a chicken box. So when you're eating it, right, you you can eat it like it's coming in a in a box of chicken.
+
+[37:05] Um and that's the that's part of the big money cash money of the whole of the whole thing. So you can so it looks like it looks like you've gotten, you know, a box of chicken, right? And try that. Try first of all, level of crunch on that sucker. Oh, look at that.
+
+[37:21] Level of crunch on that stuff, just bananas, bananas. I mean, it's that's a good product. It first of all, it has the feeling of like old school Kentucky fried chicken, and then it's like a little pebbly on the outside, like almost like it's breadcrumb fried, and it's just crunchy as all get high. That's delicious. That's great, right?
+
+[37:41] Wow. Korean snack game, hi. Also, here's a random fact for you while I'm getting the next thing out. Korean baskin robins on point. Korean baskin robins.
+
+[37:51] So they I went to a baskin robins and seoul in a traditional flavors. More than 31, I think. Oh, always. I think more than 31. But but uh they they did a a corn soft serve in a corn in a corn waffle cone, and the way they serve it, they put a little pipette of sesame oil and they jam that sucker in.
+
+[38:11] So you get the cone, you go, and you go whoop beep, and you put the sesame oil. And by the way, when you're at a Korean market, they have the fresh pressed, like everyone's doing fresh pressed oil. So you can buy the fresh pressed sesame oil, fresh pressed perilla oil. And much like if you go to a market, let's say in Mexico and you have like, oh, this is the mole place, you have like the bean paste places, and I bought a bunch of bean, bunch of like really good uh bean paste uh to come back. But they had the other markets.
+
+[38:40] I love going every every every real cook loves going to a market. If you don't love going to Mar, you shouldn't be a cook. You really shouldn't be a cook if you don't like it. You know, that's maybe a strong statement, but uh I mean it. I mean it though.
+
+[38:51] You know what I mean? Like uh I'm pretty sure I mean it. All right, here's another one for you. So this is based, I believe, on Mexican churros, right? Now, this snack is uh for the camera here.
+
+[39:06] This snack, uh again, there's no nothing. Oh, here. New chocolate churros flavor, as the name suggests, the chocolate churros. Not a great translation. Uh every four-layered chip is top the crispier, it doesn't make any sense.
+
+[39:21] It's not in anything. But this is God's, this is God's crunchy chocolate. Oh my god, you're gonna go nuts. Oh my smell smell smells like cocoa crispies, but like imagine if your breakfast cereal yeah, yeah, eat one of those. It's the lightest, it's the lightest, crispiest thing ever.
+
+[39:42] How good is that? Yeah. How good is that? It's ridiculous. Also, explicitly against my wife's orders, I had the live octopus, but not the whole one on the chopstick where they chop it up.
+
+[39:57] I'm gonna go ahead and say this. I prefer to have my octopus cooked. I would prefer you provide me with a non living octopus. Man, that chicken got to you, man. So for you, kale and octopus.
+
+[40:11] Better cook. Yeah, at least dead. At least on the octopus, I want it blanched. You know what I mean? Like, minimum, bare minimum.
+
+[40:19] What do you say, Stuff? That's really sad. That's really sad. They're like the smartest creature, and you ate it live. That's horrible.
+
+[40:26] Well, they cut it up. I mean, you have to kill any creature you're gonna eat, they have to at some point kill it to eat it. So they chop they chopped it up and it's squirming around on the plate. It wasn't it I I you could pick it up, the plate by the octopus. Again, it wasn't like uh it wasn't ideal for me.
+
+[40:50] Like I it wasn't what I you know, it wasn't that that wasn't my favorite of the things that that I had. I would not get that necessarily again, but uh, you know, people they they like it. They like it. Uh went to a bar, by the way, you'll think this is funny, Stas. Went to a bar called Carbonic Bar, like carbonation.
+
+[41:07] You walk in, and three sides of it are giant lit aquariums with just just bubbles going up. So huge rows of like tubes with bubbles. So it's like you're in like a giant bubble bath or some sort of Esther Williams like, you know, like swim phantasm thing. But and they only serve carbonated drinks, but they don't, and so you'd like this part. They don't do any of their own carbonation.
+
+[41:31] They don't do it. Isn't that weird? Yeah. You know what else you would like about Soul Stas? Lot of well a lot of welcome champagne.
+
+[41:41] A lot of welcome champagne. You know what I mean? Like all the high end places, you get some welcome champagne. And you know, you'd be like, Yes, I feel welcomed. Thank you, right?
+
+[41:52] Yeah. If Nastasia the Hammer Lopez ever shows up at your bar, you could do worse than just hand her a bottle of uh or a glass of uh, you know, rose champagne. Or just regular if you don't have it. You know what I mean? Don't don't give her don't give her, don't give her a cut rate per second.
+
+[42:09] She doesn't want that. I mean, she'll drink it, right? Am I wrong here? Yeah, but same with you, right oh yeah i mean honestly and i realize that you know we're we're not all people aren't like us right but if some i'm never upset if someone someone says to you would you like a glass of champagne yes thank you right yes i would uh it's just an enjoyable beverage it's a well-made enjoyable beverage you know what i mean you know what lvmh owns a lot of good champagne lvmh owns a lot of good champagne you know old school not you grower freaks who are like I only I only drink a champagne if only five bottles of it are made by one guy and he came to my house and I've met his goat you know what I mean like they own like larger brands like Ruin Art I think they own Ruin Art they own Krug they own uh they don't they own a lot they own a lot of good stuff um all right so let's take some questions Monty writes in uh about I guess last week's show totally agree about thimbleberries so for those of you who don't remember that was my favorite berry that I've ever harvested maybe ever had uh to me they taste like jam especially when picked warm fun fact it's also known in nate uh as nature's toilet paper because the leaves are incredibly soft and conveniently sized yeah they are big and furry uh nice nice to nice to wipe your uh wipe your behind with you know what else they have in the in those forests I think I mentioned this is hemlock trees hemlock trees are good for bedding because of all of the kind of conifers they're the softest so you got your you got your bedding you got your toilet paper and you got your berries you know hanging out in uh in the rainforest there you're good to go in the tempered rainforest uh Dr. Smokehouse writes in and says, I harvested my first bear this spring, and since RFK won't take my calls, I well, for those of you that don't know what we're talking about there, uh the I guess presidential candidate, RFK Jr., like threw a dead bear into Central Park.
+
+[44:01] Yep. And uh because he didn't have time to skin it and eat it, he thought it might be fun to throw it in Central Park. And it what what's up, Joe? Oh, he got it up there. Oh, is that the bear can we talked about?
+
+[44:13] Sick. Sick. Bear chilling. And uh yeah. So anyways, that's what that is.
+
+[44:19] Uh no one knows why he he did that, whatever, why why he would admit to it at this point. I guess it was gonna come out, right? So it's like, I know you threw that bear. Yeah. By the way, like what kind of crime is that?
+
+[44:29] I just it's just a de-bag thing to do to make someone clean up your bear. He was coming back from his falconry trip upstate with his friends. As one does. Exactly. Like he sounds so out of touch.
+
+[44:43] But yeah, and then um the person in front of him had just hit this bear cub. Uh yeah, sure. It was a person that's the person ahead of him. He didn't do it. Yep, exactly.
+
+[44:51] But he noticed it was in great shape and could be harvested for its meat. And of course, so took it back. But then had to go to a party, couldn't let the bear sit in the car overnight, so he just dumped it in Central Park and set up some bikes to make it look like an accident and just what he messed up someone's bike. Yeah. Right.
+
+[45:08] Something about he stuck the his hand in the bed, something crazy thing, right? But it's just a D-bag thing to do. You know what I mean? It's also, I guess, illegal because you're not allowed to touch uh while even if you don't have like the right licenses and permits and whatnot. Well, apparently you can keep that, but you have to report it to the like the state police immediately.
+
+[45:27] So you can keep the bear. Yes. So even well, so because there is a hunting season on it, so if I strike a deer, I'm allowed to eat that deer. I don't know. In the article I read, it was just about the bear.
+
+[45:40] Because I was under the impression that possession of game without a license is not okay ever. I think if from this, at least in New York State, if it was an accident and the you know looked like it if the cop showed up at the end of the day. Yeah, but then any then anyone who is poaching could be like it was an accident, officer. I accidentally shot it in the in the heart and then have it here and I'm skinning it. Well, like maybe maybe only a curve.
+
+[46:04] Like you can't like it. I was target shooting. I was target shooting in my uh in my preserve, and I accidentally shot this deer in the heart. It's like, I don't know, none of that makes any sense to me. This is why rules this is why you you know you're not allowed to harvest feathers.
+
+[46:19] You're not allowed to have any feathers. Yeah. Even if you find them on the ground, because you can't prove to the authorities that you didn't poach the bird and take the feathers, right? Yeah. You can't prove that it was molted.
+
+[46:30] Anyway. Um. So uh Dr. Smokes Smokehouse found a bear uh and wanted some thoughts on recipes. It's uh intramuscularly a lean meat.
+
+[46:40] Thus far, I have done smash burgers using bear fat, which were outstanding. I also so ved the loin according to the guidelines I found to avoid trichonosis. 137 for three hours and then seared and found out okay. Probably a little probably a little anytime you take the tender like the loins of any tender loins of any of these things, and you cook them for a long time, they get fibrousy. Eh, not the not the best.
+
+[47:02] So I see oak it was okay. But was looking for some New York City input on what I might try. Well, Dr. Smokehouse, the only bear I've ever cooked, sucked, it sucked, it sucked. It was so bad.
+
+[47:12] Stas, how bad was that bear? So bad. So bad. It was like that was the one. I think a raccoon was worse.
+
+[47:21] But the bear, the bear, wasn't that the one that tasted like we were chewing on pennies? There was so much like blood and metal and iron in it. Yeah. But like, you know, plenty of people eat bear all the time. So I just think it really like hook hokkaido, which I've always wanted.
+
+[47:41] I'll go eat their bear, their bear paw. So I think uh I think a lot depends on the bear. But the short answer is Dr. Smokehouse. That I have very, very, very I don't know.
+
+[47:50] My the knowledge that I do have shows that I'm bad at it. So I don't think that my advice would be uh welcome in this case. I would like to have somebody else's properly cooked bear, maybe some at some point. But uh yeah, I can't I can't. I think it someone told me it's a younger bears taste better, maybe.
+
+[48:09] Or maybe it depends on what they're eating or what point, because you know, they go through these huge cycles of fat, lean, fat, lean, fat, lean over the seasons. Um, you know, when they're when they're getting ready to uh, you know, uh, you know, hunker down for the winter, they're they're you know, they get hugely, you know, fat. Maybe that's when it tastes good, or you know, maybe the one I we had stas when it was lean down. I don't know. I don't know, but it's just unpleasant.
+
+[48:31] But uh I know for instance, maybe Josh Coon up there in uh, you know, up in the uh upper upper middle middle of our country is a big hunter and maybe uh has some recommendations. You know what I mean? So maybe. Uh Biff Ditt writes in, hey Dave, you mentioned that the only good options for ice cream making were salt and ice or a ten thousand dollar machine. What about the Chef Steph's crumble dry ice method?
+
+[48:53] Can you discuss? And it's I th I I think I said the two best machines in terms of of ice crystal size, right? So obviously, you know, whatever you make that you like is fine. I'm just saying the highest quality traditional ice cream texture from a traditional churn is either by using a lot of power, right? Freezing power, and that's what those big machines have, right?
+
+[49:20] Plus control and blah blah blah. Or a lot of power in the form of ice and salt, because that's very, very powerful. And so all of the ones in between are much lower powered, and therefore it takes them a lot longer to freeze a batch. That's what that's what I meant. So dry ice, I guess would make it uh go fast.
+
+[49:36] I hate working with dried ice, gotta be honest. Don't like working with it. Uh I'm sure it'll work. And then I I don't haven't read their their thing on it, but if you powder it enough, you just gotta make sure that all the dry ice is gone. You know, the problem with using dry ice to freeze things is that if you get a chunk of dry ice and the chunk is too big, uh, it forms a coating of water ice around the dry ice that then kind of insulates the um because there's also aerated, it insulates the dry ice and actually prevents it from freezing.
+
+[50:07] So now you have like a little meteorite of frozen like ice cream base around a dry ice core, and that could stay there for a long time. So I just don't, I'm not I don't know. I mean, I it's easier to get it's easier to get than LN. That's true. It's easier to get than LN.
+
+[50:25] But it's inherently crappy. No, Dave, you have had the product of a ninja cream. So you could give a sensitive thumbs up, right? Yeah, I mean, the stuff you made in the creamy was good, but like I think, you know, what you what you really need is for the Paco Jet Corporation to send you a Paco Jet so you can see what the what the difference is. I mean, from what from what I hear from Chris Young when he was on, we talked about it, right?
+
+[50:48] Is that you know the main thing is just uh a Paco Jet is pretty much wall to wall, top to bottom, done. And the creamy has some stuff in between that like the chunks and you have to multiply process and stuff like that. But you know, look, no one's gonna no one who is smart is gonna say that uh uh I there's gotta be a better word than Paco ties. Cremify. But they they're both so terrible.
+
+[51:13] I call I call it blade-driven processing. All right. Well, you could try well, you you could try to make that one stick, Quinn. See if you can make that one stick. Uh but we all be in the second edition.
+
+[51:26] Okay, but like I say, like in the larger community, you gotta see if you can make that stick. Because everyone like used to like kind of like grit their teeth and say paco ties. Like, or they would just say spin. Really they would just say spin and spin it. Uh the same tech same word they would use in their standard ice cream machine, spin it in the Paco Jet.
+
+[51:44] Or, you know, spin it in the Paco. Um yeah, it's a great it's a great uh it's a great technique. Um, right, because it's all about separation of variables. So in in a in a standardized cream machine, you know, the crystal size is determined by uh the base, right? This is why if you jack your stuff with uh, you know, hydrocolloids that makes uh large crystals impossible, you can get a better texture even with a slower freeze time, right?
+
+[52:10] Or you can um you know, you can and so in a standard machine you have to have enough power to get the small ice crystals and to get the aeration right at the right time to get the right texture. A Paco jet just separates that out, freeze it into a block and shave it into the crystals you want and then wh whip the air into it. Uh same with a a creamy. What do you think they should have called it instead of a creamy? Like anything?
+
+[52:34] Anything. Yeah, literally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[52:39] Blows my mind that somebody thought that was a good idea, and then it passed all the rounds of people who thought that was a good name. Yeah. Yeah. They do the thing where like everything's gonna end with like an E sound. Ninja.
+
+[52:54] Yeah, no, I'm saying like they have like the ninja speedy, they have you know the flushy, like they have a bunch of products that end with the sound. Dummy. They gotta make it dummy. Yeah. Uh it's creamy is just no good.
+
+[53:14] Anyway. Uh Kellner writes in all right, Kelna. Kellner's writing in about Roman style round thin crust pizza at home. Uh modernist claims there is no specific Roman style of pizza, but Ken Forkish has a recipe, and I'm sure I've had it myself in Rome. Uh, since my uh Uni G 16 uh Coda 16 gets very hot but has poor temperature control in the mid range.
+
+[53:34] My plan is to get it crisp using a Neapolitan dough at 64% hydration and roll it flat instead of stretching it. Do I have any recommendations? I don't know enough about the style of pizza, but I'll tell you who I'm gonna hang out with uh on Sunday. Sunday, Sunday, Sunday. Uh Wiley Dufrein's coming back from London.
+
+[53:51] Bring me some Neil's Yard cher uh cheese. So I'll report on that. I'll ask him. If uh, you know, Quinn poke me uh to Pastor Wiley about this, and I'll ask him, see what he has to say. Okay.
+
+[54:02] Mike C writes in I have a carbon steel knife that has a light layer of surface rust on it due to the continued high summer humidity, diplomatic humidity. Remember, what was that? Lethal weapon three diplomatic immunity, and then he shoots him anyway. Yeah. South Africans?
+
+[54:18] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh I scrubbed the blade down with some barkeeper's friend. By the way, Mike, took us a while to figure out what BKF was. Barkeeper's friend.
+
+[54:28] Barkeeper's friend. So barkeeper's Friend is a mixture of oxalic acid. It's the acid that's converting the rust, right? And then a bunch of scrubby stuff, and then probably some surfactants, right? Okay.
+
+[54:40] Uh, and it did a great job of removing the rust. The problem I've been having since then is my knife drawer now smells awful. I guess like Comet or Barkeeper's Friend. Uh, because they sell smell similar, right? I'm trying to remember the smell of Barkeeper's Friend, but I think it's like Comet, no?
+
+[54:53] I think so. Comet. Uh the scent of the BKF has embedded itself inside of the knife block in my drawer, as well as all of my knives that have wooden handles. I'm wondering if there's a continued chemical reaction happening inside the drawer that's that's generating the smell. Any idea of how I could get rid of the stench?
+
+[55:09] Huh. I don't know. It's possible. Um I guess if you don't remove the acid, there can continue to be a reaction, but it's mainly the acid that would be doing uh a reaction, the oxalic acid, so you'd have to kind of get rid of that. May I recommend Mike the next time you have this problem?
+
+[55:25] I don't know who else sells them. I think Quinn might have been looking it up, but a rust eraser. So, like whenever you buy a traditional carbon steel Japanese knife at like Corinne here in the city, and if you're in New York City, go check out Coron for their amazing selection of knives, some stainless, some carbon steel. But uh always buy a rust rust eraser, which is like one of the like it's like it's not like a Mr. Clean eraser.
+
+[55:47] It's like it's like a little bit abrasive and it's embedded in a rubber matrix base and like light rust, you just shh shh sells one for ten bucks on Amazon. It looks the same as the corn one. Don't know. But they call it a rust eraser. Yeah.
+
+[56:04] And it like fits in your hand like a rubber eraser, like a pencil eraser. Yeah. Light surface rust. Yeah. Get one.
+
+[56:10] You won't be sorry. Yeah. And it's a non-acid way. It's like a I don't I think it's non-acid, like light abrasive. They might have some embedded acid in it.
+
+[56:14] I don't think so. But it doesn't make your stuff smell, other than the fact that rust smells and metal dust smells. Uh it's why, like, don't you guys hate? I used to rail on people. Don't you hate when you when uh you put stainless steel bain maries through dish and they come back and they haven't been kind of dried out and it's scrub and they just scrubbed and let and then you smell it, you're like, oh, that metal smell, that metal smell.
+
+[56:39] But I do love the smell of a galvanized metal. Really? Oh, love it. So do you know? Obviously, galvanized is like a zinc coating that uh you can get this zinc, this like welding fume fever if you overheat zinc.
+
+[56:55] So I used to weld all the time, and I didn't have I had to buy what I could afford, so I'd be like tack welding uh nuts, galvanized nuts and bolts all day to things like to make my crazy machines. And you can see the yellow, and you can see the fumes come up when you zap it with the with the thing. And man, you get real sick if you inhale too much zinc fumes. You really do. Don't do it.
+
+[57:17] I'm gonna go ahead and say, don't do that. Uh Owen Kay writes in. Uh, I remember a legacy episode where you talked about edible candle made from olive oil that melted after being lit and could be consumed. Any recollection on how that was done? I'm pretty sure I didn't hallucinate it, but I can't find the reference in the transcripts.
+
+[57:37] Well, like we did a mayonnaise. We're talking about a mayonnaise one that is like an old 50s thing where I think they jellify the mayonnaise and then light it, and it smells god awful. That's what Casey Casey Highsmith was saying. But uh, I think Nick Coleman was on when we talked about that. You should have Nick Coleman back on.
+
+[57:52] Uh it isn't it fancy oil time right now? Shouldn't he be sending us some fancy oils right now so we can talk about them? Started carrying fancy oils at temperance. Yeah, you ask me if they get that. Oh, if you go to temperage wine bar, you can have Nick Roman Fancy Oil Member.
+
+[58:05] Simon B says in your new bar, I noticed you're using glass fan Nick and Nora glasses, which look fantastic, and I love the design, but unfortunately they're too high in volume for pretty much any cocktail I'd want to serve in a coop. Do you know of anyone that does a similar design of Hamblown Cooper with the appropriate volume for cocktails like Dacri's and similar drinks that are, say, three and a half ounces before dilution? Simon B, you are right. I'm gonna talk to them and have them make a smaller freaking coop. Those coops are too damn big.
+
+[58:28] Don't ask a wine person to make your coops. You know what I'm saying? I'm gonna try to rectify that because you are damn straight right. Barry M writes in, could you please discuss the process of balancing taste? One hears from food critics, especially on shows like Top Chef about taste being out of balance.
+
+[58:43] Can you give a process of procedure experimentation that helps one learn about how to balance taste? Barry, that's a long discussion. Quinn, you gotta top load that in and we can talk about it uh, you know, next time or maybe when we have the guest. We can save something for next episode. All right.
+
+[58:57] Uh all right, bear bare long night. We have 38 seconds. I remember hearing about the hot ta uh hot cold toddy drink at Shinji's bar on another podcast. Bartender at large, Eric Castro, and he gave a little explanation of how it was made, but I don't understand how it's possible for it to work if something be both hot and cold at the same time. Um we used to do that all the time.
+
+[59:15] I don't know how, I don't know the one you're talking about, but the one that we used to do is pretty simple. It's just you make a gel-an fluid gel, you heat one, and you chill the other, you put a little separator in, you pour the two next to each other, you pull out the separator, one side of the drink is hot, one side of the drink is cold. They can't mix because they're basically a fluid gel, and then when you drink one side and you know it's they whatever. It's a gimmick it's a gimmick cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave R. Host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, New Stand Studios. Uh not joined with uh John today. He's uh on vacation up in the great state of Connecticut.
+
+[0:22] But I do have Joe Hazen rocking the panels. How are you doing? I'm doing very well, man. How are you feeling? Okay, okay.
+
+[0:27] We'll get we'll get to it. We'll get to it for those that can see the video. Everyone can see what's going on over here. Well, you know, yeah. Well, anyway.
+
+[0:34] Uh got uh Nastasi the Hammer Lopez in Los Angeles, I think. How are you doing, Stas? I'm good. Yeah? Uh you're gonna love this, Stas when we get to it.
+
+[0:43] And uh Jackie Molecules. How are you doing, Jack? Yep. Yeah. I'm good.
+
+[0:48] I don't think we're gonna get Quinn from the upper upper left. He is uh not feeling very well. So uh, you know, just be us uh four today, you know? Like old school. Yeah, old school.
+
+[0:58] That's true. Kicking it old school. Uh so before we get into the other stuff, uh Nastasia is especially gonna be tickled by this. Make sure that you've already used the restroom, Nastasi, so you don't pay yourself with joy. But uh a cup first of all, we can talk about this later, but tomorrow afternoon, I'm flying out to Australia, right?
+
+[1:20] Where I've never been. And uh we can talk, we can talk about that that later. But the only reason I bring that up is because I have to shoot video over there. So just bear that in mind that I have to shoot a bunch of video while I'm over there as part of my contractual obligations. Uh so on Friday, I'm coming home from the bar.
+
+[1:41] I'm trying to get ready. I have to go to uh a wedding, uh, what's it called? Reception. Anyway, I'm on my way home. I'm walking across Delancey Street.
+
+[1:50] For those of you that don't know, Delancey Street is kind of a busy downtown street that leads directly to the Williamsburg Bridge that boom punches over into Brooklyn. Super busy divided to like you know two lane two or three lanes each way of cars uh plus uh a double bike lane and a median strip so a big old wide street so I'm on Orchard right where Contra bar is in DeLancey I'm crossing the street I cross the street and I'm kind of pissed off as you know we all are this is just another one of those New York things right so I'm crossing and a guy is zipping down the bike lane and it's my light and he starts mouthing at me for being in his way as I'm walking across the street. So I say to him stupidly by the way I say to him hey he my light like that pretty much you know you you know me like when I'm if I I you know I use the full thing. Hey my light I keep walking and then realize he starts like screaming at me right so now I go unfortunately like my I'm in I go in non-avoidance mode so I go in oh this dude is legit nuts he looked a little tweaked anyway legit nuts so I try to avoid looking at him and I continue walking across the street I make it all the way over to the other side of the street and then I hear Kachunk he has fallen off of his bike because he's also uncoordinated possibly as a result of tweaking or whatever. This makes him so enraged I'm trying not to look at him that he runs over towards me and before I can like swing around and try to even guard anything smashes me in the face breaks my glasses and gives me a big freaking black eye.
+
+[3:26] Isn't that crazy? Isn't that nuts? Oh my God. That's yeah, and so then, you know, like true to New York, we're we're we're the biggest pieces of you know, you know, in the world, but on the other hand, we're also pretty nice. A couple of kids, you know, from the neighborhood helped me find my glasses and pick it up.
+
+[3:45] I didn't even like I didn't even feel you know how you don't feel any pain at all. I felt no pain at all. I was just angry. And I kept on yelling at the guy as he ran back to his bike to get on his bike, you know, calling him an idiot and all this other stuff. And the kid was like, uh, dude.
+
+[4:01] I was like, what? He's like, your eye is swelling up pretty bad. I was like, oh crap. So then I go home and I have this giant pack like I make a giant ice patch, I put on a suit and tie, and I start walking towards my wife to go to this, you know, reception. And Jen's like, Dave, what the hell w what?
+
+[4:22] Like, how could you think that you're gonna go to reception with a giant eye patch and a big shiner? How do you like how did you and like I didn't call her anything? So like that's like she's like, and she wants to know, am I crazy or not to think that that was even a reasonable thing to do? What do you guys think? I don't know.
+
+[4:44] I w I think this originates with the mood you were in before the guy, before you ran into the wow. What do you mean? I was in a get it done mode, right? So Nastasi knows me. I was in a yeah, I'm I'm I'm I'm very, very short on time.
+
+[4:59] I'm gonna get this done. I'm gonna meet Jen when I said I'm gonna meet Jen to go to this dang reception. You know me, right? That's that's the mode I was in. I was in like no one smashing me in the face, breaking my glasses, or like, you know, making my eye puff up like a softball.
+
+[5:15] None of that is getting in the way of me doing what I said I was gonna do, right? You know me. Right. So you had to leave something and you were already upset that you had to be at another thing. Yeah, but I didn't like it.
+
+[5:30] No, no, no, I know, but I I also know you. You were ready. You were ready for a fight. I wasn't ready for a fight, clearly, or I would have I would have raised my arms in some way. You know what I mean?
+
+[5:40] Or like physically threatened the guy. But in New York, you don't want to do you don't know, you don't know what somebody has. You don't know, you know what I mean? Like I like, I think that's victim blaming stuff. Yeah, it really is.
+
+[5:51] I mean, she's right in one sense. So, like, so when I m my wife made me go to an ambulatory care thing, I was like, I don't need to go to an ambulatory care thing, I'm 100% fine, other than the big puffy eye. And uh I was like, you know, I shouldn't have said, I shouldn't have said my light to the guy, which I shouldn't have. But the guy's like, no, you can say whatever you want to the guy. He's still not allowed to hit you.
+
+[6:10] You know, he's like, you can you can insult that dude's mother, he's not allowed to hit you. You know what I mean? Correct. And guess what, folks? My light.
+
+[6:18] It was my freaking light. You know what I'm saying? I'm sorry, Dave. I can't allow that. And you know, and here's another thing.
+
+[6:27] I wasn't, I would say I would be a little on Nastasia's victim blaming side if I had earphones in and I was listening to my kind of aggressive walk music. Because I have aggressive walk music. You know what I mean? Like, you know, like I could be walking down the street listening to Rage Against the Machine or Bad Brains or something like super aggro. Then it's your fault.
+
+[6:50] I'm throwing off, like, I'm throwing off, like then the guy like might literally feel threatened just by like me looking at him because I would have that angry, angry stare. But I was just in a get her done mode. I wasn't even looking at the dude. You know what I'm saying? Right.
+
+[7:04] He the he and you know what? I was walking away from his ground. I know we're not a stand-your ground state, but you know, he couldn't even stand his ground. He fell off his bike like a turd. You know what I mean?
+
+[7:14] So I think that's what it was. I think he was embarrassed and tweaked that he fell off of his bike, and it just made his crazy self even worse. Oh, rush hour. Did I mention rush hour? And it was a hot day.
+
+[7:24] So, you know, kind of a trifecta of garbage. But this city, I don't know, that's just New York in a nutshell for you. You know what I'm saying? People. Anyway.
+
+[7:34] Wow. So I gotta go to Australia with this giant thing and film. And so, like, it turns out, for those of you that are watching the video, I'm wearing a pirate style eye patch. And uh Nastasi, do you remember when I when I ran into uh that glass wall at full speed? And uh yeah, it looks kind of like that.
+
+[7:51] So I was in Barcelona, I don't know, what was that, like eight, nine years ago, right before Ariel's wedding, and I ran full speed into a glass wall, and uh also was like, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. But went to the and they took me to the hospital anyway. And like uh you have to wear an eye patch because you look banana, in other words, like if you walk around the streets with a black eye, people are like, Oh, that dude is is like totally effed and messed up. That dude gets into fights and is a lunatic, right? Or that dude is like, you know, I don't know, people have a bad impression of someone with a giant black eye.
+
+[8:29] Put on an eye patch, and people are like, dude's a pirate. You know what I mean? Dude does uh commercials for Zippo lighters or some crazy thing. You know what I mean? People are like, dude's fine, he's got an eye patch.
+
+[8:41] Happens all the time. Yeah, yeah. He's a boxer. He's like, no, he's like um Kung Foodmaster. Yeah, he's like he's he's it's it no one no one looks at eye patch and is like, that guy's a turd.
+
+[8:51] You know what I mean? Whereas No, all the assumptions are good, it's true. Yeah. There's only cool reasons, basically. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[8:57] Whereas, like, you know, big black eye, you're like, ooh, mm. Right. You know what I mean? Right. Like it's just a like a note to Ben A.
+
+[9:05] If someone's like, you know, has to do their dating profile while they have a black eye, go for the eye patch. I'm telling you. You know what I'm saying? I think men, women, everybody, you know, whatever you are, yeah. Eye patch is the way to go over a big old shiner, I think.
+
+[9:22] You know what I mean? Uh Nadine from Twin Peaks. That's a good one. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[9:26] I don't remember. The uh the original I you know what? I need to rewatch that. Should I watch that on my 24 hours of travel tomorrow? Actually, yeah.
+
+[9:34] Twin Peaks rules. Yeah. Uh wasn't was Nadine the one with the log, the log lady. No, no. She was the one that uh she she ended up thinking, well, I'm not gonna see the show.
+
+[9:46] Yeah. She's great. So some good news about Australia, and Nastasia will, you know, whatever, but for those of who know me personally, I've said this for decades. Destas, you're gonna say the one thing that I all always like treasured about uh idea of Australia. Do you remember?
+
+[10:05] Uh God. You don't like the accent. Well, no one does. I don't know. They don't like it, they don't like our accent though, so it's fine.
+
+[10:13] It's fair. I can't think of the food or the you don't care about the coral reef. I don't know. I forgot. Hey, I I'm not gonna go to the coral reef, but I don't want it to die, Mistakes.
+
+[10:24] It's an unfair uh uh and I'm not going to that part, I'm going to Sydney. Kangaroo hide whips. Kangaroo hide is like the perfect hide for uh for a bull whip or a or a cattle whip, cow whip in Australia makes the best in the world. So I have a guy literally right now hand making me for not that much money, hand making me a kangaroo hide whip, and it's being shipped to my hotel as we speak. As we speak.
+
+[10:55] Like cat a nine-tails whip? No, no, no, no, no. Not like a not like a BDSM thing, like a literal, just like a whip. You know what I mean? Like whoosh, you know what I mean?
+
+[11:04] Not supposed to hit somebody with it. Well, it's like the did you know that the Austrians are like the whip capital of the world? That checks out. Like in a but that's in more of a hanky panky sort of a way, right? I mean, come on.
+
+[11:19] Like, you know, the the Germano Austrians are also like, you know, the people who have the toilets with the presentation poo where you where the the toilets are super flat so that you can see every poo. You know what I mean? It's like a weird, they got some weird stuff going on. Like when the doors close over there, you gotta you know what I mean? It's like anyway.
+
+[11:38] No, this is just good old fashioned, go outside, crack a whip, you know. Anyway, so I'm excited for that. I lost my whip. I was just looking for my whip sound effects, but I don't have it anymore. No?
+
+[11:51] No. We've talked about whips before. Well, I mean, because it's, you know, whips are awesome. Whips are one of those uh, like, you know, like guns, although I don't own any guns, but uh just because New York City, you know, come on. And um, but it's one of those action at a distance things.
+
+[12:06] Like you do something here and something happens over there. You know what I mean? Like that's what's so cool about a whip. It's like, you know, eight feet away, whoosh, you know what I mean? And like you can like cut a playing card in half or like, you know, cut the top off of a dandelion or whatever you whatever you want to do.
+
+[12:21] Hey, by the way, did I already ask this? Did all of you guys growing up do the dandelion head popping thing? The what? Really? You didn't do this?
+
+[12:31] So I don't know. Okay, so you've all picked up the dandelion after it's turned to a puff and blown on it, right? That that okay. So we're good there. So earlier in the season when there's still dandelions, what we used to do when we were kids, and then we would do it for all the younger kids, is you pick one up, you put the flower, so you make a you make like a little U shape with your uh pointer finger, and then you put the flower right in that U shape, and you put your your thumbnail right underneath the head of the flower like you were like you were flicking it like something, and you go, Mama had a baby and its head popped off, boop, and then you like flick that you like flick the top of the dandelion and it see how far you can you can flick it.
+
+[13:15] Kids love it. So we used to do it, we would always do it with the younger kids, and then like we'd pass it down from generation to generation, but you guys didn't do that growing up? I've no, I've never done that. Oh people love it. You gotta you gotta start doing that.
+
+[13:28] If people don't have that tradition, it's good. Whenever you have a little kid, take the flower, mama had a baby and its head popped off, boop, and then it's like flick it. I've done it off of cliffs, I've done it off of high buildings if there's no one below. Anyway, uh how did I get on that? Oh, cutting dandelions with a whip.
+
+[13:45] All right. Maybe get some real questions. What do you guys got going this week? What happened to you guys this week? Food, food or otherwise?
+
+[13:51] Um, real quick, not to spend too much time on the show with it, but I did go to I think a music festival that you would really appreciate. I'm gonna give you the list of people that I saw live on the same day at the same place. Uh-huh. The I the Isley brothers, Shaka Khan, Smokey Robinson, Al Green, oh Carl Santana. What?
+
+[14:12] Diana Diana Ross, and then George Clinton. Okay. Okay, okay. Hold on. First of all, was George Clinton, who's I guess almost 80 now, still high?
+
+[14:22] 84. 84. Still high? Um, I don't know. He was very energetic.
+
+[14:26] He was jumping around. Love it. I love it. The answer would be yes. What percentage of the people had to be wheeled onto stage?
+
+[14:33] Um, none. None were wheeled on. Um the guy from the OG, we did see the OJs, and he was sitting down. He couldn't stand it. Yeah.
+
+[14:41] But um he was like 85. Wow. Um Al Gr Al Green was throwing roses into the audience. I love Al Green so much. Al Green, it's really terribly mastered.
+
+[14:51] I hope they remastered it, but the Bell album from Al Green, like right after he had that horrible incident with his uh girlfriend, uh came out with one of his early religious albums. So sick. Uh, did he play like did he play like all the stuff you know plus like some of that stuff that people don't know as well, or no? Yes, yes, yeah. He did like uh like an amazing grace kind of cover thing, and then a few sort of churchy songs, and then all the hits.
+
+[15:15] How's it how I mean everyone had like a 20 minute set? Twenty minutes is not enough for Al Green. You know what I mean? Uh maybe he played a little longer, actually. Um, but get this the Isley brothers, Ron Isley is also like 83.
+
+[15:27] He comes out to the band playing the theme from The Godfather with a video of him stepping out of a Rolls Royce, and then he just walks on stage with a cane. It was yeah. Nah, yeah. Okay. You know who he used to do.
+
+[15:42] Pretty crazy, all these people are still alive, to be honest. Yeah. Yeah. Al Green. Man.
+
+[15:48] These towers pipes. Good. Surprisingly so. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[15:54] Can you still do all that stuff? Oh my god. Yeah. I wish I'd wish I'd seen that. Wait, who else who else was on?
+
+[15:59] Oh, how was Santana? Could he still play? He can't. He was sitting down. Um, but he can still shred, yeah.
+
+[16:05] Yeah. Does he have like three long hairs now, or what does he look like? He was wearing he's wearing a beanie. He looked pretty good. Yeah.
+
+[16:12] Everyone looked pretty good. I mean, you know, these people have money. So yeah. Yeah, you know what the best anti-aging cream on earth is? Money.
+
+[16:21] Yeah. You know what I mean? That's what Cindy Lauper said. Money. Money changes everything.
+
+[16:26] You know? She's correct. Yeah. That's amazing. Was there any good food at the festival?
+
+[16:30] No. It was a disaster and the worst run event I've ever been to in my entire life. Wow. Other than that, it was great. So, like, tell me the disaster.
+
+[16:43] There it was, it's one of these like things that's like in a big parking lot by SoFi Stadium. And it's a sweltering hot day. It's oversold. People are you know, to get water, you had to wait in a line for like 30 minutes. And people are all you know, there's a bunch of old people there because it's an old lineup.
+
+[17:01] So everyone looks like they're about to die from heat stroke and everyone's cranky and pushing into each other. It was just that kind of, you know, a disaster. Was it one of those garbages where you had to wait for the water, but they also didn't let you bring your own? Oh man, I hate that. Uh I don't even know if what the regulations were about what you could or couldn't bring.
+
+[17:17] I just assumed that things like water would be easy to get. And how uh back to the music for a sec. How tight was Smokey Robinson's face skin? Oh my god, yeah, he's weird looking. Yeah.
+
+[17:29] I f I have a feeling that he like wears like uh this is my theory, it's might not be true. That you you ever you remember those old sardine cans with the with the with the key that you twist up the metal? Wow. You know this? Yeah.
+
+[17:42] So my theory is is that he's got like a wig and underneath it is a sardine key, and before every show he just goes and like tightens up his face and then like puts the puts the the toupee back down over the sardine key and then goes on. Is that accurate? Yeah that looks pretty accurate. Yeah. I mean excuse me.
+
+[18:03] Now that Kenny Rogers is gone, I wonder whether Smokey Robinson is the current leading worst male plastic surgery musician. He's gotta be up there. Like who who else is there? Like Kenny Rogers, I think for a while. Kenny Wayne.
+
+[18:18] Is Wayne Newton is Wayne Newton still? Oh yeah, Wayne Newton. Oh my goodness. That's gotta be the winner. Oh my God.
+
+[18:28] He's 82. That's a hard 82 though, right? Like at like at a certain point, like you're much better when you just look old rather than robotic. You know what I mean? I think.
+
+[18:39] I would like I would like our listeners to Google Wayne Newton if you haven't in a while. By the way, do whatever you want to your own face. It's your face. Do whatever you want. Shouldn't face shame people.
+
+[18:47] Do whatever you want. It's your face. Yeah. You know what I mean? Just remember you gotta live with it.
+
+[18:51] Uh all right. So uh since we don't have John and we don't have uh Quinn, uh maybe Nastasia should promote the Patreon membership. Nastasia, what is a good reason for someone to join our Patreon? Um they get exclusive things. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[19:10] And eventually that sales pitch. Eventually look, they get calculators from Quinn. They we get like STL files. By the way, I built a uh I built a chilling system in that fits in my uh backpack that I can take with me and chill uh carbo stuff with an automatic siphon anywhere in the world. I'm gonna test it at Australia.
+
+[19:31] I'll put those files up for anyone on the Patreon as well. Uh I'm gonna put some of our some of the stuff from Liquid Intelligence on that the the new stuff that's not out yet. I might put as a Patreon only in a non-published format, obviously, but some of the data. So there's a there's reasons to go to go uh and join our Patreon. Plus we we you know we'll answer your questions sooner.
+
+[19:50] And uh should we ever do more parties or events, you can come and have Nastasia stare you down and she'll maybe even I don't know if you're nice to her, she might pull out old school vegan face, maybe. I don't know. I don't know. We never do event. Uh well, what was last time we planned an event at Thunderbolt, right?
+
+[20:09] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because we had Appleheads. That's true. That that did share.
+
+[20:19] And people showed up with amazing Apple heads, like the most amazing Apple heads, like like animatronic Appleheads. Like I'm saying, like it was a good, it was a good event. You know what I'm saying? But yeah. Uh we can do more, we can do more events in the in the coming in the coming year.
+
+[20:36] You know, just have to set them up. All right. Uh also you get promo codes for things. Uh, for instance, uh anyone, general audience can uh get a glass van uh 10% off uh with uh code Dave Arnold, but you get a bigger code, uh bigger discount if you're a Patreon member. And of course, if you're on the Patreon, you can call your questions in to uh nine one seven four one oh fifteen oh seven.
+
+[20:58] That's nine one seven four one oh fifteen oh seven. So, Stas, you got any uh food related hoo haf in the past two weeks we didn't do last week. Uh no. I wasn't invited to that concert. So yeah, because you really would have yeah, you really would have gone.
+
+[21:14] Oh, she would have. What are you kidding me? Yeah, are you kidding me, Doug? Mm-hmm. Okay.
+
+[21:22] Thirteen hours of standing in the hot concrete. Look, she would have just like Al Green. Just call me when Al Green's showing up. She would have showed up just for freaking Al Green. Yeah.
+
+[21:31] We waited two hours to be let into the festival. But did you have to be there that early? I it got worse after that. Let me ask you a question, Jack. How much did you lower the median age of that audience?
+
+[21:48] Yeah, I mean, yeah. So my point here is not that this is okay, but you totally could have muscled your way through. And and if you were with Nastasia, she would have she would have parted that audience like a freaking icebreaker. It was a younger audience than you'd imagine. It was in Englewood, and it was a very local crowd.
+
+[22:07] Uh, and uh it was yeah, it was it was a different audience than I expected. I'll put it that way. A lot of a lot of energy, a lot of young little young drunk energy in there. So people were bringing their own liquor because they couldn't no one's gonna stand in line that long to get a beer. Well, there were people selling liquor, you know, from coolers and then being chased by the police.
+
+[22:28] It was it was a whole scene. That's totally nostasia's scene. Yes. That's totally nostasia's scene. Someone with a side hustle getting like like, you know, yanked by the police, and she's sitting there bargaining with them, saying in two minutes you're all your stuff's gonna be gone.
+
+[22:43] Give it to me for half price. Like that would have That is good negotiating power. Get this. When the when the when the peddlers went, you know, they're selling beers in little like, you know, like bottles of tequila and grapefruit juice or something. And when the cops would come, everyone else in the line would would yell to the vendors and then stop and block the cops so that the vendor could escape.
+
+[23:07] And and you're and you thought this wasn't Nastasia's scene? No, this would have been Nastasia's scene. Now that I'm saying it, yeah. They you know, I know. They don't like my style of concert going.
+
+[23:17] They want a chill experience. Yeah, this is why Nastasia, for as little as I go to them, she likes going with me because she knows that like I'm either gonna go ape crap or I'm just gonna like dead eye stare or whatever. It's gonna be something. You know what I mean? Anyway.
+
+[23:32] Yeah. Yeah. We did go to we we we had a few good meals though, Stas and I, the last few weeks, right? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[23:39] We went to a cool Japanese place that's super hard to get into in like a strip mall, outdoor parking lot thing. It's good. But I you guys need more jack, so why was it so hard to get into? Like what's their shtick? So they're like one of the first places to have done poke.
+
+[23:57] Um in like like a billion years ago. I guess. Yeah, like a billion years ago. And they're still hopping. Still hopping, yeah.
+
+[24:05] Is their poke better than the ones you get on the like all the crap hole places where it's like all stringy and nasty because they stir it too much after they make it and it's got those threads of garbage coming off it? Okay. All right. I'm not gonna oh someone asked me the other day, and I'm not gonna try this, is someone else try it, about using acid adjust for ceviche. Oh, interesting.
+
+[24:31] Yeah. It is an interesting idea. And they specifically, here's a weird part. They wanted to do, and this part I don't know whether it's gonna taste good. They wanted to know whether it would affect the flavor.
+
+[24:39] I said, yes. They wanted to do, instead of acid adjusting on a fruit juice, they wanted to acid adjust beer to do a beer vice. I was like, I don't see why it wouldn't work. It's just it's gonna taste like beer, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. I don't know if that'd be good.
+
+[24:55] Maybe. Probably the less flavor the beer had, the better it would be, like corona style. You know what I mean? Or like a sour beer, maybe. Yeah, but you're gonna acid adjust that sucker anyway.
+
+[25:05] But like I think the like the automatic would be a good idea is acid adjusting a different juice and doing ceviche, right? That would be good. I think. Yeah. Uh yeah.
+
+[25:17] Yeah. Wait, and Jack and I found the best bar in LA. Oh okay, define best. Jack, you you define it. You said it really well while we were there.
+
+[25:28] Vibes only. I don't know. Like this is not like the best bar to get a cocktail at. No. Umstasia doesn't like cocktail bars anyway, though.
+
+[25:38] The kind of place on the strip that like maybe D-list celebrities will be at and like not really many tourists, and then weird, you know, pirates with eye patches, maybe Yeah. If you say D-list celebrity, I'm sniffing. I smell Polly Shore. Was Paul Shore there? I don't know.
+
+[26:02] That's a really good dude. Yeah, yeah. So, uh if Nastasia liked it, they must have had some sort of sparkling garbage by the glass. Is that true? No, I couldn't drink I had my wisdom teeth out, so I wouldn't couldn't drink.
+
+[26:14] Oh God, I hate wisdom teeth. Did how m how did you already get two out before and you got two out this time? Yeah, exactly. Oh, Jesus. Did they give you did did you get the good anesthesia?
+
+[26:24] Yeah, in my arm, yeah. Yeah, you were out, right? Yeah, yeah. Thank God. Hey, listen, anyone that can hear my voice, get the good anesthesia when you're getting your wisdom teeth taken out.
+
+[26:38] I don't care if it's a little extra money. Getting your wisdom teeth ripped out, maybe for some people it's easy. Super duper unpleasant. I've both times I didn't have the money to pay for the uh when I got mine, didn't have the money to pay for the the real anesthesia, and I was awake and horrified. The oral surgeon the second time around had to put something over my eyes because my eyes were freaking her out so much.
+
+[27:05] Like that that look of you ever seen like a rabbit right before it's about to get killed? Like that like super wide-eyed terror look, you know what I mean? She's like, I can't. She's like, she's like, I can't, I can't. Anyway.
+
+[27:17] So like I'm not. Your roots are like twisted or something, or like we signed. Yeah. My teeth are like a waiter's friend. They're like a corkscrew.
+
+[27:29] They go in and they're hard to rip out. So, like maybe, maybe if some of you like have you know teeth that want to leave your head, it's not a problem, but I'm just gonna go ahead and say, why not get the decent anesthesia, right? That's all I'm saying. Yeah. So, like, was a recovery bad or was it okay?
+
+[27:46] It was fine. It was really fine. That shows how like they wanted to come out, you know. There's no stitches, it's fine. Really?
+
+[27:53] That's good. When I was a kid, you know what everyone was afraid of? I don't even know whether people get it anymore. Did they did they do they talk about dry socket? No, they didn't.
+
+[28:03] I hate that word socket. Yeah. Yeah. Well, in combination with dry, I don't even know how it works. Like, but like, that's what they warn you about.
+
+[28:11] They're like, well, you know, the real problem is that uh if you don't treat it right, you could get dry socket, and then it's like the most pain that your mouth is ever going to be in. You're like, what the hell is dry socket? Like, what is like I don't even think it happens anymore. Like, I I I think that's just like, you know, like the boogeyman, something that's used to scare kids nowadays, but I don't know. Yeah.
+
+[28:32] I didn't get my wisdom teeth taken out till late because here's what happened. Like when I was a lot younger, someone said to me, the dentist was like, You should get your wisdom teeth taken out. And I said, Yeah, why? And they said, or later they'll need to come out. I was like, sounds like later to me.
+
+[28:50] You know what I mean? Like, what the hell? You know what I mean? Yeah. Anyway.
+
+[28:56] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Take them out once they're a problem, right? Anyway. Right.
+
+[29:00] No tangent Tuesdays on cooking issues. Hey, this is all about eating, my friend. This is not a tangent. Like Nastasi was not able to have a glass of sparkling wine at this bar because of this, and that that is a true tragedy. And I didn't couldn't have any of the Japanese stuff.
+
+[29:18] I had soup. Soup? Yeah, once was there miso soup worth like waiting in line for, or what? It was fine. It wasn't the like, you know, fine.
+
+[29:29] Yeah. I was at a uh I don't I forget where I was. It wasn't in Korea, it was somewhere here in the United States in the past week. I forget where. But uh Wegmans, that's where I was.
+
+[29:38] And they had a like a miso soup in a box. It was like it was like one of those like like uh you know those like instant coffee machines or the they the eat at a cafe and you push it and coffee comes out? But for miso soup, and it's set on it authentic. And I was like, on what freaking planet is like like the word authenticity shouldn't like almost never be applied to food. Ridiculous.
+
+[30:02] You know what I mean? Like the idea that like authenticity coming out of this miso soup coming out of this box in a Wegman's on in Astor Place is just preposterous. Anyway. I mean as well be. I think it was just like a like a bucket in in back with a pump, and you just go pfft and it goes, you know, like, or maybe it's like putting a I had a really decent um on uh Asiana Airlines actually for a powdered miso soup, pretty good powdered miso soup, where they they little lady was like bop, throws the throws the brick into my cup, goes pours the hot water on it.
+
+[30:38] I was like, this is gonna be oh, it's pretty good. You know what I mean? So it can be done, but it's not, you know, not the same. I'm sure like with Nastasia's place that she went, they were like measuring exactly how much katsu abushi they put in and waiting for it to drop to the exact level in the pot so it wouldn't get bitter and then straining it out and then making a Niban Dashi, all the garbage, all the stuff. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[30:59] Was it under seasoned styles or not? No, no, it wasn't fancy, Dave. It was kind of trashy the place. Uh so that's better. I actually prefer Dashi when it's trashy or a little more, got a little more, you know what I mean?
+
+[31:13] A little more zhuj to it than the hypertension. Right what what's the like bottom of acceptable dashi, you know? Well, in other words, like I'm saying, like in like the the higher end restaurants, like the kind of more subtle it is, and as like you know, an idiot American, I prefer a less subtle dashi with more katsuabushi, a longer steep time, just kind of more powerful all-around flavors. You know what I'm saying? Okay.
+
+[31:40] So, you know, that makes me uh uh an uncultured Philistine idiot, but that's just still who I am. You know what I mean? No, that still sounds like legit dashi, though. I mean it's not like the you know, just like Hondashi packet or whatever, right? Although you know what?
+
+[31:55] No shame, no shame Hondashi in your house as like is a good thing to have in your house. You know what I'm saying? Like I like it's a very good, like the box of it so that you can just like sprinkle a little bit in, like instead of salt, it's like salt plus MSG and a little bit of that fish taste. I mean, it's not a bad product to have in your house, you know what I'm saying? No, I have a I have so much.
+
+[32:18] I always bring Dashi back when I've only been to Japan twice, but when I've gone, I've brought a ton of dashi packets back. Yeah. Stas doesn't usually like an would was it overly comboed? Because I know you don't like too much of the combo, or you don't like combo on its own, but you like it in dashi fine, right? Yeah, I think because we did all those tests at the FCI.
+
+[32:38] Remember, we ran so many tests. Oh my god, so many tests, just combu, like just combo. It's a lot. Yeah. Like all the tests that we ran were, as they say, a lot.
+
+[32:51] You know what I mean? Um, yeah. So why couldn't you have? Oh, because you couldn't chew anything solid. Jesus.
+
+[32:58] Yeah. Oh my god. What if instead what if instead you had done this? I'm not saying this is a good, and you can't use a my memory is you can't use a straw either because dry socket, right? You can't like suck on anything too hard.
+
+[33:11] Yeah. Yeah. What if you had bought like a battery-powered, like neutral bullet blender and showed up and gotten like the full McGillah and then just like God, bring me a picture of the soup, and then like whatever they handed you, you blend into a smoothie with the blender and then sat there drinking it while they were serving it to you. What would have happened? Oh I mean it would have tasted bad but what what would have happened though.
+
+[33:37] I think they would have laughed. I think they would have laughed right Jack I don't know. So it's not it's not like it's not like the lady in Korea that almost cut my head off because somebody handed me peppers and she didn't want me to eat them in her fried chicken place. No. Yeah.
+
+[33:56] Yeah. I think they were all drunk because we were like the last I haven't been to a restaurant I've never gone to one of the famous restaurants where the cooks were drunk the whole time. Like Schwa. I never made it to Schwa. I was supposed to go and they closed what when I was supposed to go they were like no we're closed today.
+
+[34:14] You know what I mean? One of those things? You ever gone to any of those famous restaurants where everyone's wasted when they're cooking? I mean I'm sure I've been sure plenty of restaurants I've been to the chefs have been wasted while cooking. They just don't maybe they're not famous for that.
+
+[34:27] They're not advertised. Back in the day Schwa was like the replacements of of restaurants for those of you that listen to the replacements back in the day. You never knew what you were gonna I never went to a replacements concert because you never knew what you were gonna get and I kind of want to know what I'm gonna get when I'm spending money. You know what I'm saying? I don't have enough money to be like if they fall over it's fine.
+
+[34:48] You know what I mean? It's not my shake. Although you know who I would have paid to see uh completely blotted out of his mind was Mitch Hedberg. The comedian oh my god. Nastasi is the only one of us that goes, I think, regularly to comedy shows, but anyway.
+
+[35:04] No, Jack was Jack goes. Because of Nastasia, though. No. No, that's not true, Jack. You guys go to your to your own.
+
+[35:13] You guys like your own type of thing too that I don't like. That's I guess that's true. Hey, Stas, next time you're in New York, uh, former food writer, uh, Daniel Janine from Eater is now like does stand-up only. That's his gig. So we should go see go see.
+
+[35:28] You know who you know who's preparing five minutes for when he comes out here in November? Who guess? Guess. Please guess. Peter Peter Kim.
+
+[35:41] No. No. Nick's gonna be my guest too. Yeah, Nick Coleman. Yes.
+
+[35:46] All right. Prepare like five minutes, like, if you're not professional, doesn't it take five minutes just to even warm up just to get started? How the heck are you gonna do five minutes? Oh, you have to do you have to do five minutes. Like, there's an open mic thing at uh the comedy store, and new people can go up and do five minutes, and you're supposed to have a tight five minutes.
+
+[36:09] So better be real tight. If you've never done it before, like what is it, like the last joke finally gets good? Like you finally get the audience onto your shtick on the last joke, and then they're like, that's all, folks, and you're gone. That's how it works. But I think it feels like forever, those five minutes, you know.
+
+[36:26] Is anyone who doesn't do it for a living? Because I'm assuming you've gone. Does anyone go and like boom, they're funny right out of the gate? Good question. I think there have been.
+
+[36:37] Oh, you mean like a new person never done it before? I have no idea. No clue. Like, you know, like I'm guessing that like the last like minute of these five is the best of any of these of any of them. You know what I mean?
+
+[36:50] Because it's weird, it's really hard. You gotta get people into your cadence and all that stuff. I don't understand how you're gonna like hook and then and then finish everything off in five. It seems so hard, right I guess that because that's what that's what you do on uh on television talk shows but those are all like real professionals right those aren't like Randos Yeah I'm thinking I don't know I I don't know I guess well record it and we can judge it yeah the Coleman the Coleman that lousy weasel was supposed to come on like now with freaking olive oil I just texted him before the show and I'm you coming on so yeah but it's already too late to have the fresh one I'm already bent I don't know he better hope I he better hope he never almost runs into me and then clocks me wait no that was the other way around all right uh all right Barry M writes in uh could you please discuss the process of balancing tastes in in scare quotes one hears food critics especially on shows like Top Chef uh about taste being out of balance can you give a process or procedure experimentation that helps one learn about how to balance taste well it's a good question but there are no I think hard and fast rules on it. It's just uh most of the time it's really j like other than the flavors, right?
+
+[38:08] So there's balancing flavors, but most of the time w you're really looking for just the basic five, right? You're looking for the basic five trying to get them in balance. Like is this if it's savory, is this savory enough? If not, I'm gonna hit it with some umami boost, be it like soy, yandu, nutritional yeast, uh parmigiano, uh one of these things, right? Is it salty enough?
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+[38:33] And you know, a lot of times if there's not enough salt, then the whole thing tastes flat, right? So it the whole thing goes out of bounds because you need salt. Then uh sugar, obviously, even savory things, a little tiny bit of sugar helps it, and uh and acid, finally. Without acid, most things taste flabby and disgusting. They need a little bit of acid.
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+[38:55] And so, like, you know, I always say Jean-Georges' restaurants were always the kind of of the super high end, the kind of best at at dealing with acids. So, in general, balancing kind of that's what you're talking about, not in general things like texture and not even really so much flavor. I think most of the time when people are talking balanced, that's what they're talking about. And rather like flavor things, if flavors out of whack, they might also say that it's unbalanced. Like if I taste one flavor more than others.
+
+[39:22] Like let's say you hand Nastasi and I something that tastes overwhelmingly of Jasmine from beets, uh, then we're gonna be like, oh, this is kind of out of balance because all we taste are beets and we wish we didn't taste those at all, right? So like people do use it that way, but most of the time when they're you're talking about balancing something, I think you're talking about balancing those basic taste as opposed to aromas. I think balancing the aroma of something is a little more complicated. So for that, usually you'll add um, you know, aromatics at the end to try to pull things out. So I think m fewer people balance aromas actively.
+
+[40:02] They just were like, it smells good, you know what I mean? Rather than try to balance the aroma. What do you guys think? It's not that different than mixing a music track. Yeah, you sweeten it up, you you know, dry it out or whatever.
+
+[40:15] You know what I mean? It's like uh balance. Yeah. Equalization. One thing I'll say, and I've said this on the air many, many times.
+
+[40:23] Don't when you're typically what I like to keep things in balance as they cook rather than try to balance stuff out at the end. Only now at the end. Because unless you're gonna reduce something a lot, in which case you got to be careful about overseasoning if you're gonna do a lot of reduction. But um a lot of times, especially if you're seasoning at the end and then you let something sit, uh, it tastes right when it sits, but then as it I mean, sorry, it tastes right when you make it, but as it sits and like uh it equilibrates more, it doesn't taste right anymore. So specifically salt levels, if you salt right before you eat, and then you eat you let it chill and you heat up that like a stew, let's say, the next day, typically it will need more salt on the second day because the salt that you put into the original one has now soaked throughout the the meat or veg or whatever it is, and you probably need to add a little more.
+
+[41:15] So sometimes you need to rebalance things, and you also need to balance things for whether they're hot or they're cold. That makes sense. Uh but I can talk I'm gonna drop the pen. I can talk more when uh maybe when you know what I have a food-related thing. Okay, bring it.
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+[41:35] I completed my private airline stewardess training. Oh my god. Oh my god. Yeah. So are you like peanuts or pretzels?
+
+[41:49] I don't really care. Is that what you like? How how what do you do? Private. Well, what do you give out on a private jet?
+
+[41:56] You have to cook. What? Yes. Do you remember when we were doing the Sous Lee classes and we had a private jet cook and we were like doing and we were talking to him about like what he could do on the private jet? No.
+
+[42:11] Yeah. I mean, aside from obviously like uh, you know, the buttons who ran, you know, Katie and and her mom who yeah and Ash who r you know ran a private jet company. But yeah, we had a private jet cook in one of our sous vide classes. So what are you cooking? What are you cooking on the airplane?
+
+[42:28] Oh no, I'm not I'm not doing it now. I just got it done last week. Um but you are able to cook. You are supposed to cook. A lot of these people do not cook.
+
+[42:38] They put their eggs in the microwave, so that's how they scramble them. Well, because there's no smoke. Right. Everything Everything has to be smokeless, right? No, you can have a burner.
+
+[42:51] And like Yeah. So what what type of jet were you training on? Some Gulf Stream, blah blah blah. I don't know. Higher than weather G fives are better?
+
+[43:02] Like you were like doing the full nine? That's like a s I mean that's sick. I mean, yeah, that's cool. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[43:07] What are the outfits look like? Does does everyone dress naturally? What? You choose because you you like do contract work. Like a rich person's like, I need someone for two days, you know, and then you like you look professional, but there's no like set outfit if you're on somebody's private jet.
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+[43:26] So you could show up in a chicken outfit like on Stir Crazy. I mean, that would not be cool, but uh you don't think a chicken outfit is cool? Gene Wilder and Richard Pryor look freaking cool in those chicken outfits. Yeah. Yeah, no, no.
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+[43:43] Plus you have to be ready to like I don't know. I the the class was not about hospitality because I have all of that, so I don't need that part. The class was about safety and putting out fires and being deprived of oxygen while you dri fly the plane. So did they did they put you in uh in one of those uh low oxygen environments and wait for someone to pass out? Yeah.
+
+[44:04] Awesome. I don't know whether they did with you, but the old thing that they used to do is one person would not have the mask on and everyone would look at the person without the mask to see what happens. Did they do that with you or no? They put the mask on you and slowly deprived you of oxygen as you were flying a simulating plane to until you like almost passed out, and then they bring you back. So how how how how loopy did you get?
+
+[44:28] Um, not too bad. Not too bad. Yeah. I just keep envisioning the scene in total recall where the eyeballs are popping out. Oh yeah, that was the best on the on the with the like quattle.
+
+[44:41] That's a good movie. The original. Anyway, uh okay. My uh I had a friend who was a flight attendant, you know, right out of college, and she said that the other thing, and I'm just seeing whether this is still the case, so during training, they would boom, they would pop the they would pop the slide and then they go, go, go. And if you hesitate for even a microsecond jumping out of that door, you're washed out.
+
+[45:06] Oh wow. I mean, we had to go to a Marriott pool and like uh I don't remember, Sherman Oaks or something, and jump into it and get in the rafts and all that stuff. Yeah. So uh when you take gigs on, you gotta tell us what you cook. That's all that matters.
+
+[45:23] It's really hard to get gigs. That's why I'm saying this on the show. Like it's really hard to get your first gig. So if anyone listening is private jet wealthy and flies out of the Los Angeles general area. Maybe what I can do both I can do Teterborough too.
+
+[45:40] Isn't Teterborough basically like like a d a direct connection to LAX? Right? Where what's the private airline? What's the actually what's the private airport? What's the Teter Boro equivalent in LA?
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+[45:50] Van Nuys, sometimes Burbank, too. No man. So it's just like a direct everyone's just going bing bing bing bing bing bing bing. Do you get on the helicopter at Teterborough and theoretically? And and then like are also an attendant from that leg over into Manhattan?
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+[46:06] No, you don't need a player tenant on a helicopter. Because you know none of those people are getting in a in a car to go from Teterborough. Yeah. Peasants. Peasants.
+
+[46:17] You know what I mean? Yeah. All right. So yeah, so hire me for whatever trip, and I will, and then Dave, you'll make me cocktails and I'll bring them on the plane. Okay.
+
+[46:30] Uh Barry M. Uh, we already did that one. Uh Frank, uh, what is the science behind quote unquote layering flavors when cooking? I'm looking for research that explores the impact of ingredient order when preparing a dish. A stew or curry might be an example for the sake of discussion.
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+[46:43] Sounds like a McGee type question, but I can't find any reference to him exploring this topic. Of course, there is traditional practices. Many assumptions, but what's the actual impact on the final preparation? I really think it depends. Honestly, uh, I think there is some sort of mystical hoo-ha around it as well, but uh obviously yeah, look, I had John run some tests of sweating versus not sweating veg before vegetables before making a miropoi before making a stock, and he said it made a difference, even though he wasn't caramelizing.
+
+[47:11] Obviously, if you're gonna caramelize something or cook it at a higher temperature than it would otherwise be able to get to in a stew, onions, spices when you're cooking them in oil at the beginning of the curry, let's say, then adding them early is different from adding them later. That makes sense, right? Spices that take a long time to release their flavors, like bay leaf that you put in whole and then remove whole later, put it in earlier because it takes a long time for the stuff. So that makes sense from a layering perspective. Other things like black pepper, for instance, have certain volatiles that will go away if you uh if you cook them for a long time.
+
+[47:47] And so you want to add them, you can add them at the beginning for bitterness, which doesn't leave, and you can add them again at the end for aroma, right? So it's like things that lose their aroma over time, you want to either add them twice or add them at the end. Things that need a long time or need high heat in terms of like, you know, pre-cooking in oil or butter, uh, or whose flavors change over a long period of time, you want to add earlier everything else in between, right? Some things extract differently when they're in fats, and so again, also those wanna happen earlier in the cook when it's mainly just fat in the pan. Does that make sense?
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+[48:21] But I have no data. Anyway. Uh Kev writes in, I would like to preface this by saying that all liability is waived by anyone responding to this threads, just for speculation, is see what theoretical evidence exists. I'm trying to preserve roasted red peppers in oil. I'm aware that recipes require pressure canning due to the risk of botulism.
+
+[48:41] My thinking on the contrary is that clostridium botulinum is a surface-forming microorganism. If I'm roasting peppers already, or more likely than not, flash-frying them to remove the skins even easier. Would that process not destroy the botulism? Short answer, no. Uh, I would still water can them in jars after, but this theory would go towards me not buying a pressure canner.
+
+[49:00] No. Nope. No. Uh but uh there is a way out of this. So, in order to water can instead of pressure can, you need to get the pH of those peppers below 4.6, right?
+
+[49:13] Now, you're saying to yourself, Kev, I don't want to add vinegar to these things or enough vinegar to make them pH 4.6, right? That's what you're saying. That's what I'm hearing what you're saying. But, and I don't know why people don't do this more. There is a an acidity regulator.
+
+[49:28] Now listen, it's sodium uh by sulf 8, 88, ATE, not sodium bisulfite ITE, not sodium meta bisulfite, sodium by sulf eight. And it uh it's the it's uh e-code is E514. Now, I couldn't find anyone doing this, but it's an acidity regulator. And here's what here's the amazing thing about it. It does not taste sour at all.
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+[49:58] Right? So you can make something that is almost the pH of lime juice that has almost no acidity to it. And you don't need anywhere near that pH. So what I would do is I would sacrifice a batch of peppers. I would get some peppers with like, you know, not with the oil, but with all the water-based liquids, right?
+
+[50:17] And I would add a small amount of that. You can get it, uh, you can get food grade, but it's a pain in the butt, but you can get it. I've found it. Add a small amount and then uh measure the pH. It's it should require like something like like 10 times less of it than you would use a citric acid to get the same pH, all right?
+
+[50:36] And then measure the pH. And I would get it, you know, well enough below 4.6 that you're not worried about. Like let's take it down to like 4.2 or 4.1. And like that way you can build up a recipe on how to get the pH low enough. And then a combination of salt and pH with that should keep you safe.
+
+[50:54] Just make sure you measure it, and then you can water can, right? You still need to kill yeast and whatnot, but then you can water can. But uh I would also add a pinch of calcium, calcium chloride, just to keep them kind of firm, but not so much that you can taste it. That makes sense, uh guys. Is that enough of an answer?
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+[51:11] Covered and smothered. Yeah. Sweet. Uh Maddie writes in uh hey, uh, we recently acquired a Macienda Molinito masa grinder. That's a almost $2,000 problem.
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+[51:23] And I'm wondering what we might be able to do with it in addition to grinding masa, especially bread and pastry applications, among other things, I do bread RD production. Uh I wonder if there's any way to grind wheat into flour or crack grain with it. Uh grinding uh cacao nibs also came to mind. Obviously, don't want to damage our $2,000 investment, so I'm happy to stick to masa, but I thought there must be some uh other stuff we can do with a big old grinder. Yeah, yeah.
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+[51:46] I wouldn't I don't I wouldn't, I mean, I I haven't tried it on wheat. I don't know. Maybe it would work, but I I don't know. I haven't tried it at all. I've never tried one.
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+[51:55] But I used to have a uh, you know, a lesser uh masa grinder, and I would not have used it for flour. The plates weren't kind of they I wouldn't have used it for flour. However, you could if it if it's okay grinding dry, I would just contact them, right? You might be able to do like well, I wouldn't do it to it. Like hot, like like uh atta style flour with very high starch damage, like very hot.
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+[52:20] I wouldn't do it. Uh in my old masa grinder, I used to grind nuts to make nut paste, and it worked very well. The only problem is I once added sugar and almost burnt out the motor. So if you're gonna grind nut paste, definitely don't put uh any sugar in. Remember, then you have to clean it too, because it's not gonna have corn anymore.
+
+[52:37] I bet you would be good at grinding sesame into tahini. I bet you'll be fantastic at making tahini. Uh I it would probably make a decent mole. Things that are like medium wet. You know what I mean?
+
+[52:48] Oh, we have a caller? Caller, you're on the air. Hey, uh long time. Hey Quinn, what's up? Yeah, first time caller.
+
+[52:55] Yeah, what's up? How you doing? How you feeling? Uh you know, I'm here. I don't have my good mic, but I thought I would check in.
+
+[53:04] I actually had a question kind of related to this last one. All right, go for it. So I have a bunch of the macienda corn that I paid to have professionally smuggled into Canada. Uh a while ago. But you know, we're not gonna do the fall next to mall process very often.
+
+[53:35] Because it's very, you know, involved. Uh uh well, I mean, it's well, it's very involved, especially if you don't do it every day. Yeah, so my question is what would your procedure be for breaking down these corn kernels into other forms of just regular corn flour grits polenta, just so that we know we can use them for other things also. I mean, um, so I know that you have uh you have the mock mill that goes on the kitchen aid. So corn is much harder than wheat.
+
+[54:17] Look much harder than wheat. And wheat is, you know, in turn harder, much harder than oats. Uh and the corn, especially some of the bigger varieties, they sound very not okay when you're grinding them. And so when I grind corn, what I typically do is I put it on an extremely coarse grind and uh I crack them first. Uh and then once you crack them, it depends on whether the corn is more flinty or more starchy, right?
+
+[54:51] So if it's more real hard and flinty, then I mean remember that the corn the corn being difficult to grind was the reason that uh masa exists in the first place. They had to invent the nickalization was invented as a way to make corn, you know, uh better to grind and more useful for making tortillas, right? So uh yeah. So I would put it on really coarse, crack it all through, and then take a second or third pest. Um my previous mill before I got the milk mill, which is like a metal, big metal burr crying or style.
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+[55:31] I think that might be better as a first cast. Maybe if you're worried about hurting, I don't think you're gonna hurt your stones. It just sounds really, really, really bad. You know what I mean? Like it sounds hard.
+
+[55:44] Should be my final target, you think. If I'm gonna do it. Oh, well, that depends on you. Oh, well. Yeah.
+
+[55:54] And if you're gonna do polenta, then you should do it fairly coarse and then sift out the fines. Because you don't want the fines. Right. So for polenta, you want, you know, uh, you want to do yeah, you like I would I would I would try to go for uh fairly coarse. I would grind it once to crack it, grind it again, and then sift out the fines, use the fines as corn flour, and then use the uh use the rest as uh as polenta.
+
+[56:27] Because when I've done without sifting, like it it's it can get kind of more gloppy, maybe than you would want. You know what I mean? Like as opposed to just being like perfect polenta, you know what I'm saying? Oh, by the way, if anyone has money to hire uh private flight, they should also go to spinball.com and reorder some spring balls, right? Oh, yeah, they totally should do that because otherwise we'll go out of business, and then you there'll be none.
+
+[56:57] So if it i if not enough people pre-order, then uh there will be none. Yeah, the answer is there will be none. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Spinsall.com. That's a good point there, Quinn.
+
+[57:10] And uh maybe not today because we've talked very little about cooking, but in general, they should uh leave a positive review for us. Oh, you know, five star leave five star review on uh on the podcast platform of your choice because uh it helps us out, you know what I'm saying? And another uh great thing about the Patreon is the Discord full of people that talk about these questions and ideas all day. Yeah, probably more cooking related anyway. Okay, hold on, so let me get me get this cooking question out.
+
+[57:38] Rock Baker writes in Is there anything I can do with the leftover liquid for my ferments? Some are tasty, but obviously very salty. Can they be desalinated? Rock, I would go the other way around. I would dehydrate them into salts.
+
+[57:51] Right? Anyway, you with me? Do you guys agree or disagree? Agree. Yeah, all right.
+
+[57:59] Okay. We got some non-alcoholic stuff. Alexander says, I have a problem that came up while making a non-alcoholic pairing for a new dessert. We wanted to use sesame milk. Uh now that that's good, but uh has a short fridge life.
+
+[58:10] The issue is that when to work for the pairing, it also needs berries. And so uh when they put the berries in, it curdles, even though they use 210 and xanthan and all that. Uh here's the issue. You say you're not putting sugar into it. You need sugar to stop it from breaking because you need to have it sterically uh inhibited from breaking, or when it does break to break into micro curdles.
+
+[58:32] If you don't want it to be sweet, if you don't want to add sugar to it, may I say jest, and you tell me whether it works or not. Try the same amount of polydextrose as you would use of sugar and see whether that stops it from breaking. Do like the Orjah recipe, add a little bit of extra xanthan, a little bit of extra arabic, and um a large amount of polydextrose to it and see whether that stops it from splitting because it might microcurdle the way that other things do, like milks and allow you to have it be stable even with acid in it. So let me know whether that works for you, Alexander. I think it will.
+
+[59:03] And we have two other non-out questions. Uh, two people attending this uh event that I'm cooking. This is from Sherry. Uh, don't drink, would like to batch up a nice uh zero percent for them. I can mix a batch about an hour before they arrive.
+
+[59:13] Dinner is wood fired pizza and an herbie tomato salad, and Math Man says, Hey, my wife and I are hosting a baby shower, uh, and the mother to be loves making cocktails and misses them in pregnancy. I want to have two or three uh NA's to mix up for the event. Maybe ahead of time would love your advice. Uh don't have a spinzall yet, then buy one. Uh, all right.
+
+[59:32] So uh we have a drink at the uh at the bar called uh Better Living that we also call it grapefruit and chemical. This isn't good for pre-batching, but you should make uh cream syrup is good for non-oxro shaking because it's got a lot of texture, and that's just uh a one-to-one simple syrup with cream and sugar. Stir it. Uh use American style cream at around 34% fat. Anything like British style, too much fat will curdle.
+
+[59:55] And then stir in uh for every liter, stir in about a half of an ounce of uh 15% citric acid. That'll that'll firm it up. And that is great. Shake that with uh a dealcoholized uh wine. So I'll give you a ratio uh for that.
+
+[1:00:10] You also need to make glass. Glacid is a mixture, and we've talked about it's also Quinn has it on the uh Patreon, it's on my Instagram mixture of um uh la uh um tartaric acid, lactic acid, and glycerin. That's good to have for non-alks. The other thing that's good to have, I mentioned it before, polydextrose, which you can get on Amazon, a 50-50 syrup of polydextrose uh and water is very good for non-ox because it allows you to add body without adding uh too much uh sugar. And lastly, to do good non-alx, you're gonna need a whole bunch of infusions.
+
+[1:00:41] So um I like to have things like calamus root infusions around, wormwood infusions, and I typically do three grams into two hundred as a tea and just like cook them and let them sit. Uh those are good to have. Um, so let me give you some recipes that use some of the oh, the last thing if you're gonna do shaking drinks, non alcoholic, uh I want it you make something called goop, and that's two percent methyl F50, 1% uh gum arabic, and and uh 0.2% Xanthan. So here's uh here's one for a quick one. Uh dealcoalized wine, two ounces, cream syrup, three quarters of an ounce, half an ounce of glassid, and uh uh half an ounce of uh goop.
+
+[1:01:23] Shake that up. That's a very good uh non-alcoholic uh drink. Um yeah. The grapefruit juice one is two ounces of grapefruit juice, uh, three quarters of an ounce of grapefruit uh of uh cream syrup, uh, and then uh a mixture of uh glassid, polydextrose, acenic acid, oris root, and wormwood. You need a little k for the back there.
+
+[1:01:48] I can give you more recipes. We're out of time. The next time we're back or on the podcast uh on the Patreon, I can put some non alcs up there for you. Uh in general, lower the sugar, add polydextrose and or glass it to get the body up, and then add a little bit of a bitter back end, be it something with tannins like rhubarb root or uh teas or things that are bitter like wormwood, to just add a little bit of in the back to make it taste like a cocktail. Let us know how it works, cooking issues.
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+[0:20] Yeah. Good to be back. Yeah, good to be back. Also got behind me, because I'm not in my normal position. Joe Hazen rocking the panels.
+
+[0:26] What's up? Hey, welcome to the studio. Hey, hey. Over there on the West Coast, we got uh some Jackie Molecules. How you doing?
+
+[0:36] I'm good. I'm good. Awesome. Fantastic, huh? What?
+
+[0:40] Fantastic. Oh, yeah, yeah, super packed. Yeah, it's like, it's definitely uh beyond what we're probably legally allowed to do over here. And uh, I think also Nastasia the Hammer of Lopez, how you doing? I'm good.
+
+[0:53] Now, I rocked in here s so hot and sweaty. So hot and sweaty. You familiar with the song Tifus by uh 300 pounds of goo? No. Yeah.
+
+[1:03] Well, it there's theory the story of the song is is that they dropped out of college, didn't need it. You spend that money for no reason. I told my mom she won't believe this, I put 500 on my Tifus. It was like a huge hit, like I don't know, like 10 years ago in Daytona Beach, and they never made it up. But Jetson made was the producer, so you know, good song.
+
+[1:20] However, the one line that always goes in my head is it goes, I popped a Molly and now I'm sweaty. And so whenever I'm super sweaty, that's like even though I've never tried Molly. I hear it's a great drug though. I've never tried it. Anyway, uh I came in here so I was I was super late.
+
+[1:34] I was biking like a lunatic. I'm super late because I was in a code hole this morning. You guys ever go into a code hole? I was writing some optimization program for a Lee Squares problem, and all of a sudden I looked up and it was like 10 minutes after I was supposed to leave the house. So I apologize for that, folks.
+
+[1:47] So what I'm not sure is do we have Quinn in the upper upper left? Because I know he's been sick. I was hoping he was gonna be well enough to be on the air today. Unfortunately, he can't join us today. Oh man, that's too bad now.
+
+[1:58] So we send out our regards. Hey Quinn, feel better. Yeah, feel better, Quinn. So uh we've missed a couple of weeks, just so you know, if you're listening on Patreon, uh, we are gonna do, I think, a makeup episode on Friday. True.
+
+[2:11] I don't know. Sure. I think so. We're we're going to do a makeup episode soon with Nick, the Captain Greasy, the Oily Spoon, Olive Man, Coleman. Uh, so stay tuned for that.
+
+[2:22] But we have two other guests coming on recent or soon as well. Uh Osai Endlin, a really great food writer, and then uh Chef David Steinbridge, who won uh this year's James Beard, Best Northeast for his restaurant uh Shipwright Stutter and Mystic. Yeah, Mystic. I haven't been uh have I been back to Mystic recently. Anyway, anyway, all coming up.
+
+[2:40] But today, today, the full house to which uh Jackie Molecules uh refers to, and uh by the way, Nastasia the Hammer Lopez, uh, I think set this one up. Uh I'm very happy to. I think wait, Peter, have you been here before? No. So first time ever, Peter Hoffman, writer, and also with him, his like partner in writing crime, then none other than the bread lunatic himself.
+
+[3:05] What do you mean? Shaking your head like you're not a bread lunatic? Which is that you're not, not bread or not lunatic. I'm just bread obsessed. That's all.
+
+[3:12] No, I mean they're separate. The lunatic and the bread are separate. I've got fermentation issues. Oh. That's a new one.
+
+[3:22] You have a lot of energy. Uh are you sure you you've never tried Molly? No, I hear it's fantastic. It's it's this ecstasy. Yeah, I know.
+
+[3:29] It's just I'm aware. Yes. Where were you? Where were you in the after 9/11? I mean, everyone was doing X-Neven.
+
+[3:36] I know, I was already at that time married for a long time. So uh I never understood going to clubs uh if you're married, because who needs that? Who needs that? The drinks are terrible. The music is often bad.
+
+[3:51] You know what I mean? Yeah. You could do the Molly in your bed. That's true. Yeah, but then you know, I don't know, like um it's weird because I do like dancing.
+
+[3:59] Nostalgia, don't I like dancing? Love. I love dancing. So uh but you know, the thing is I don't need drugs. Like once you want like it takes a little bit to get me out onto the dance floor, but once I get out there, you yeah, it's like it's like you spin me up and that's it.
+
+[4:15] I'm a gyro. I just keep going until I until the music stops or I pass out. You know, so it's like don't need the molly. You know what I mean? And uh yeah, so I'm not gonna go home with anyone other than my wife, so I don't need that either.
+
+[4:29] So what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? Maybe someday. Should I try it? At this point, what does it do?
+
+[4:35] What does it do if you're just like hanging around? It's it's an intimacy drug. It was meant to help people. But it's true though, it was really helped initially it was d design designed or developed apart from post-traumatic stress disorder, but it was really designed of marriage, by the way. Um but it was it was really designed and and prescribed mostly for couples to like reconnect with one another.
+
+[4:58] I see. And become and become more intimate and friendly. Um there was money behind that problem back in the day. There still is money behind that problem even today. I mean, uh all right.
+
+[5:12] I mean, I didn't know that people I didn't know that big pharma spent money on on emotional problems. That's that's partners. It's called psychiatry. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Prescribe the drugs.
+
+[5:22] Yeah, okay. All right. So uh now is the portion of like LSD was a was a was very big on that too, way back in the day. Yeah, I remember it being more the CIA dosing people and the army dosing people so that they can see if they could f with them. Well psychiatrists were were given license to prescribe it in the 60s and 70s.
+
+[5:40] Yeah. So in fact, it was uh it was fairly close to here that uh that poor sorry guy jumped out of the uh or was pushed out of the uh hotel near uh 34th Street, who was part of the uh MK Ultra uh CIA program where they were dosing him constantly with LSD. It's funny, you know. I had recently I had the honor of having dinner with um Timothy Leary's widow. Oh about a about a month ago.
+
+[6:04] Why was she alive? She's well, she's great. She's really sweet. Wouldn't she be a billion and three? No, she's not that old.
+
+[6:11] So he married someone really young. She was uh either 70s or 80s, but she's an absolute sweetheart. Yeah, yeah. Now, does she share in all of his own? I I didn't I didn't I didn't tell her that I knew who she was.
+
+[6:25] Oh, what's that all about? Well so you couldn't have any real discussions about it. Well, I didn't want to. Did you know at the time? Uh yeah, but it but it but I at the end of the day, she she wanted to reveal that.
+
+[6:35] What? Well, never mind. No, it's out in Sack Harbor. Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah.
+
+[6:39] So how long after the reveal were you there? Could it be like you'd be like, so did you save it all? Was it all shot in the space? Were all the ashes shot in the space? No.
+
+[6:48] They were not? No, they were not. Oh what's the best use of uh one's own human ashes? It's gotta be Lemmy. Lemmy from Motorhead?
+
+[6:58] Oh. He had I don't know. He had his ashes stuffed inside of 50 uh different bullet bullet heads, bullets, and then had them mailed to all of his friends. And so it was like you got like a Lemmy bullet. That's a good one.
+
+[7:13] I think Hunter Thompson was uh Hunter Thompson was shot out of a cannon, right? Yeah, that checks out. That checks out. Yeah, that's pretty good. I think Ray Bradbury was also shot into space.
+
+[7:22] That was checks out. Yeah, you know what I think seems good though. You know what I want? Nothing. I don't care.
+
+[7:28] Cause I'll be dead. You know what I'm saying? Anyway, uh, so off the death thing. Uh what do you guys go got going for this week? What's going on?
+
+[7:34] What happened in the past week? It's been the past three weeks, actually, for us, right? It's been a while. I've been air, I've been to I've been to Australia. I just got back from Australia.
+
+[7:42] Really? How is it? It's great. It's far away. I've never been before.
+
+[7:46] How many hours? Uh uh like 24. Yeah. I it's a little longer. If uh I had to make sure I made my connection, so I had to give myself more of an LA layout.
+
+[7:54] How long did you did you stay? Like four days. Oh, that's too short. Jeez. It's work.
+
+[7:58] I wasn't going on vacation. You know what I mean? But still. Yeah. You travel that far, you might as well like hang there for a bit.
+
+[8:03] What part? Sydney only. Yeah. Have you been before? No.
+
+[8:07] No. But will you go back? Yeah, I would. I mean, I would like to go back for longer. I would like to go to more of the places.
+
+[8:12] You know what I mean? Like people from Australia, I think go all over Australia. Even though Australia is freaking ginormous, like they go everywhere. You know what I mean? They're like, have you been to Melbourne?
+
+[8:21] Oh, they call it Melbourne. I'm like, no, I've not. No, I'm here in Sydney. I'm working, and then I gotta go home. You know what I mean?
+
+[8:26] I want to go to Darwin. There is a woman who runs helicopter foraging tours in Darwin. How sick is that? Like Nastasi loves me. He loves helicopters.
+
+[8:35] I've never been in a helicopter and they frighten me like terribly because they don't want to stay in the air of their own accord on like an airplane, which is you know like a glider once the motor runs out. I mean, I know a good helicopter pilot, whatever. Anyway, but you would go out there into like, you know, because outside of Darwin, which is tiny, and in the north, you go outside of it, and oom, you're in, you're in it. You know what I mean? So she knows where these plants are, and she goes, and then she, you know, you go make drinks with them.
+
+[8:59] That's cool. It's cool, right? I can't believe you flew all the way out there and didn't go do the thing that you're saying. That sounds insane. Like, why not swim?
+
+[9:10] Well, here's what I heard. Dave, did you swim? Of course not. What? Why would I swim?
+
+[9:15] Because you're like right near the fing ocean. I'm sorry. I must say that. You're right near the I saw the ocean. Freaking ocean.
+
+[9:21] I I saw the ocean. I saw one of the most beautiful venues I've ever, uh restaurants have ever, it's called Iceberg, although I don't think they have a wedge salad. If your restaurant is called Iceberg and you don't have a wedge salad, what is wrong with you? I literally turned to someone next to me. I was like, Do you guys have iceberg lettuce here?
+
+[9:37] You're like, yeah. Like, do you have bacon? Yeah. Have you heard of blue cheese? They're like, yeah, like, what the hell?
+
+[9:42] You know what I mean? It's like, how do you that salad is terrific? John, back me up on this. Yeah, it's delicious. It's a terrific salad.
+
+[9:47] Yeah. Hey, uh speaking of salad, crouton thoughts. Like, how? Like what? Feelings on croutons.
+
+[9:55] Um, I love croutons, but there's so many ways to make croutons. Okay. Crappy bread crouton. Favorite way of making croutons. You want to hear it?
+
+[10:02] Yes. Okay. Stale the hell out of bread. Get a whole loaf of bread, let it stale to the point where like if you were to touch it, it would fall apart. Soak it in water, the whole thing.
+
+[10:14] If you don't want the croutons to be too rustic, peel off the crust of the bread after the bread is completely soaked up all the water and has quadrupled it, probably quadrupled its initial size. And then squeeze out the water uh of the bread with your hands, and then make these like kind of large chunks and then let them dry like that. And they're like glass-like because the um the starch, the alveoli, the starch, the structure of the dough, when it dehydrates and you and rehydrates, it it kind of has more like a crystal-like it crystallizes actually as it uh dries, and when you rehydrate it with water, its texture and dry redry it again. It's like the opposite of what you would think. You get a loaf of bread, you rip it into a bunch of chunks, you put it onto a sheet tray.
+
+[11:08] New York Times says you should put some uh uh salt and oil and spices on it. Hey, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Stop, stop, stop, stop. What's that shade? What's that shade?
+
+[11:15] You don't you don't believe in salt and oil? What's the shade? What do you mean? What do you mean? You're like, oh, the New York Times.
+
+[11:20] No, no, I'm saying like this the standard uh whatever. Some some food blogger, some uh some whatever, some kind of old gray lady. No, no, no, tell me. Leave the old gray lady alone. She's fine.
+
+[11:30] But but it's it's what it is, it's all about like he still holds a freaking grudge about the article about the no-need article that went viral on the Times before the book came out. You still hold a grudge. Which one? Which one? The bit the original Pittman one.
+
+[11:44] That was Times, wasn't it? No, no, no. I don't have a grudge against that. No, no. When when my b no, no, I don't have any grudges at all.
+
+[11:51] People have a tendency. Okay. But wait, wait. There were four press releases before my bakery opened up. Four independent press releases.
+
+[12:02] You're a competent journalist, right? I mean, no. You're but at in context, in 1994, what what was the most important piece of food journalism in New York City? Times. Okay.
+
+[12:16] So the authority, wait. Second was time out. The authority, the authority of food, didn't do their research and see that the name of the baker was Jim Leahy. Not to be confused with John Dunsworth, but Jim Leahy. Theoretically, you think they would have said uh Jim Leahy was the baker, but I'm just the hands of the baker are are evident evident on everything.
+
+[12:46] And I realized in making that posting that people seemed to respond negatively to, that I had harbored an enormous amount of resentment toward the senior editor then and now context a long time, um toward the senior editor. And I didn't realize why for years after that piece of press came out, why I was so kind of like a miffed, annoyed at her. But then I realized I've I got over it. I forgave her. I think she's I think she's a brilliant You should.
+
+[13:20] Of course. It doesn't really matter. However, my bakery's 30 years old this year. Today, maybe. No, no, no, no, on the 21st.
+
+[13:30] What is today? You know, it's like that Earth Wind and Fire song, the 21st. Okay. Yeah. Oh, by the way, in in the scheme of 30 years, that's today.
+
+[13:37] Yeah. Yeah, in the scheme of 30 years. So you think. And people won't hear this till Friday, so I I've started tomorrow. Well, I reached out to the the paper a couple times.
+
+[13:47] I don't have a Oh yeah, don't ever reach out to a reporter. Don't it why? Don't because they then they don't want to give you anything in the future. Just let all mistakes unless they've accused you of something horrible. Yeah.
+
+[14:00] Just let it go. Yeah, that's true. Anyway, uh uh water under the bridge. Also, by the way, just so anyone can But you think that a j a competent journalist would have corrected that with the official opening of the bakery. According to the the authority at that time, you know.
+
+[14:17] First of all, first of all, I will just say this. But I want to say one thing. Obviously now the New York Times is not as relevant as it was then. Wow. But no shade, no shade thrown.
+
+[14:28] But we still want them to cover things. No shade on it. Only if objective. Peter is a smart man. No, yes, but only objectively if there's a reason to.
+
+[14:37] If they're if they decide not to because I throw them shade. No, I don't. My career would be nothing without Mark Bittman and Florence Fabricamp. They've they made me. I mean, I'm, you know, I'm joking.
+
+[14:51] Yeah. All right. You know, look, uh, I I I pitched I you know, I pitched Ruth Reichel on my no need bread recipe, and she wasn't interested way back when Well, no, it's not shade. I mean, she even acknowledges that that like probably wasn't I mean, based on his popularity, but at the time, in context, I probably did a horrible presentation. I probably, you know, I've probably messed up the the sales pitch, you know, because I I I have a tendency of doing that.
+
+[15:18] So it's not like Yeah. Yeah. That's okay. But water under the bridge. For also for a little context.
+
+[15:23] It's a cute story. For for people for people who aren't like in their in their 50s, for a little context here, right? In 1994, there were people making bread in New York, but I mean, there was there was a couple of people making bread that I would buy in New York. However, bread here sucked. Which which bakery did you like in 1994?
+
+[15:45] Uh I lived. I lived, well, the only bakery in um non-bagel bakery. Let's just stipulate non-bagal. Can we stipulate this? Yeah, yeah- and non non-Jewish traditional bakeries.
+
+[15:55] I'm stipulating non-Jewish, non- and also not like Orwasher style. You're a lot of exclusions. I'm talking about bread. Yeah, but the only place I used to go was Amy's. Interesting.
+
+[16:07] Because that was there. Yeah. Yeah, they were making good bread. I worked for her, you know. Really?
+
+[16:11] First 1992. Uh first three months that she opened. I was the bread shaper. So if you got bread that was misshapen, it was my fault. Uh probably.
+
+[16:22] Do you remember? Like uh, she used to make very stretchy, chewy loaf, uh like real glassy outside with olives in it, like in the little shade. I I yeah, those like twisty things. I forget. But I used to um, but I got my job working for her by not through my resume, which was kind of ridiculous.
+
+[16:40] I had no resume, uh, but by baking a loaf of bread and bringing it to her and saying, hire me. And she was like, Wow, you make good bread. You're hired. Nice. It was great.
+
+[16:50] And that was a flash in the pan. That didn't stake you with the bread. So in uh but I didn't like that I was just just shaping the bread. Yeah. Because I think that like a baker really needs to see the whole process from the the making of the dough to seeing the finished product.
+
+[17:06] And I and I thought the way she had her labor kind of like divided, there was one person who did dough, one person or a group of people who did shaping, and then a whole other crew that dealt with the refrigerated, then shaped and refrigerated dough to bake it, which is pretty retarded uh stuff back then. Well, yeah, that's pretty much the way that like most bakers, like it's that it's you know, it's the sourdoughs that you see with all the blisters all over it. Yeah, that's like classic refrigerator dough. Like, I mean, I I'm not throwing shade on tartine, but that's like just tartine. That's like here we go.
+
+[17:41] No, no, we're not. But this is just the way everyone works. There was a a bread consultant named Tom Leonard. I don't know. He was uh a big bread consultant, and he influenced a lot of like I think Nancy Silverton's La Brea style.
+
+[17:56] Um so a lot of it, a lot of that followed her recipe. Remember way back in the day, the uh cooking with Master Chefs, the uh freaking and she was the early one with the grape sourdough where she used grapes as the wild yeast format. Yeah, not saying that you need to do that, I'm not talking about the science, but that was like early, early like regular mo sourdough people. Sourdough's everywhere. I'm not saying you need grapes, I'm saying, but that was one of the first exposures that a lot of people, Julia Child was like, here's someone doing sourdough in LA, blah blah blah.
+
+[18:25] Yeah. Here's how you can do your own. I mean, there's a lot of there's still a lot of like mythology about bread making and bread bakers as a group or people who kind of like have like fermentation issues. Um people have a tendency of like gravitating to this sort of like weird kind of mystical, spiritual, magical thinking. Um, when it comes to like our affections for the making of bread.
+
+[18:58] Anti-mystical says the Molly Man. No, I'm not the Molly man. Okay. I'm not promoting uh I certainly sounded like it. No.
+
+[19:09] It's just what people did after 9-11. It seemed like everyone in their 30s was doing it after 9-11. I mean it's all the people I was hanging out with. So uh to go back to uh like the mid-90s, right? So um I remember I had never gone, so what the bakery we're talking about is Sullivan Street Bakery, if you've I don't know, never been to New York.
+
+[19:27] And uh I used to like, do you remember um um um what was the name of the bakery? Umis. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which later became named by people in the industry Itchy penis, just because it was kind of what you do when you're having the humor of it. Well, yeah, 11, yeah, yeah, 10-year-old.
+
+[19:51] Um but but Echie Panis was owned by the Santos family who owned Sign of the Dove, which was kind of the place where the elite Andrew Demika, Andrew Domico, uh imagery of like um was it Five Napkenberger, Marseille, Nice Matin. He was like their executive chef at the time. It was a very different world back then, Upper East, Lower Upper East Side. Um so Paula Olin, who was the head baker of is the head baker of Balthazar and someone who I admire immensely for her her vision and her skill. She was running the bakery at the time, and that was a very influential thing for me in the early 90s, because she was the head baker.
+
+[20:33] I didn't know who she was. I would see her, maybe I'd try to say hi, but I, you know. I used to be sent there by um two very wealthy women that I worked for as like their waiting. Um as their like gopher. Uh-huh.
+
+[20:50] As their I would get things for, I would make things together. What? Did they live together? Yeah, there were a couple. They were beautiful.
+
+[20:57] One was named they were just random women. No, they were a beautiful, they were a beautiful gay couple that lived on the Upper East Side, and they ran a beautiful little um button store called Tender Buttons. I mean, I like the whole button store thing. Up East Side, though. I don't think it's not feeling it.
+
+[21:13] Yeah. I'm not feeling a button store on the Upper East Side. I'm not like a butt button store. I'm with you. Couple?
+
+[21:18] With you. Upper East Side? No. Yeah. Well, I mean, they used to Yorkville, maybe?
+
+[21:22] Or like regular Upper East Side. Who shop? Right off right off of Lex. People, people, they had people whose I was gonna say blue haired, blue-haired women wearing chanel jackets missing, missing a button. And and then and then wait Japanese button collectors or French button collectors who would want to buy a rare closonet, cloisonet button or a rare ceramic button that was like 500 years old.
+
+[21:51] One day I remember managing a $30,000 sale of antique buttons. Yeah. So this is not what I was picturing. This now makes sense on the Upper East Side. This is not like Daytona fittings over in the garment district.
+
+[22:04] Yeah, but you could get you could also go there and get like a 20 cent button, too, for your whatever, your shirt or your blouse. And it came with a little bit of a where they spit on you when you walk out. No, not at all. It was very, it was very nice. It was very nice.
+
+[22:17] And let me finish. Craftsy people. Red was terrible in New York City in the same way that coffee was terrible in New York City. Well, these ladies knew that, and they wanted to make sure in a weird kind of way, the names were Millicent and Diane. They were adorable.
+
+[22:29] That's a great name. Millicent. Yeah, Millicent Sappho. Do you remember the movie? And Diane Epstein and Diane Epstein was literally a spitting image of Gertrude Stein.
+
+[22:41] Yeah. And hence the name Tender Buttons after a Gertrude Stein poem. Oh yeah. Yeah. It all it all made sense.
+
+[22:48] We're off the rails. Yeah, we're off the rails. But he wants to talk about the big thing. The bread, anyway, so for those of you that don't know, the bread was a revelation at the time. Sullivan Street.
+
+[22:56] I went there. The first time I went there was I think in ninety six or seven. That late, huh? I mean, I lived way up town. I lived at Columbia.
+
+[23:02] And then as soon as I moved down into the Garment District is when I started like, you know, coming like further downtown. Although I did go to art shows all the time because I wasn't art school. So I wasn't so ho quite a big. What art school did you go to? Columbia.
+
+[23:13] Okay. Yeah, fine arts. And I did go to Timoe because Timoe Sushet was the sushi was the best deal. Yeah. The best deal.
+
+[23:19] Yeah, it was. You wait in line and you get your cut-rate sushi. They no reservations. I loved it. Thompson Street, yeah, that's great.
+
+[23:26] One street away. Yeah. It's still there, isn't it? I don't know. I don't know either.
+
+[23:29] I bet it is. It's been a long time since I've gone for cut-rate sushi. Yeah. It is cut rate, though. Yeah, but it's a great deal.
+
+[23:35] Yeah, it wasn't. It was the portions were enormous. Yeah, for uh for freaking uh someone in grad school, it was like, you know, genius. Well, that was also a time when people that's when a falafel sandwich at Mammoons was only a buck fifty. I remember when I was like your Mamoons is garbage memoons.
+
+[23:50] We had the real Mamoons in New Haven. Oh, I'm sorry. You're right. Yeah, yeah. That's the original.
+
+[23:54] The origin. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So uh I went into Sullivan Street and you guys had the Bianca, the p the pizza bianca, which was like a spitting image for the these things I had had on my honeymoon a couple years prior, and I was like, this is the best. And then like, you know, your uh your uh whatever you call it, semi de sesimo, which I still buy that thing, you know what I mean?
+
+[24:16] And then you moved uptown and my sister-in-law, so like I've kind of like grown up, not grown up because I was already not young, but I mean like the past since since I've had it, like Sullivan Street has been often copied but never equaled. Well, there are man, yes, every major baking company has knocked off most or all of my product line and some minor. Like first, the first people to imitate me was a company called Hudson Breads. And I remember they would make a version of the Filone coded in breathe brand. And it was really about capturing market.
+
+[24:50] So I'd see it at like various kinds of restaurants or or delis, and I'd be like, wow, that's amazing. And then your old partner, Daisy, was it made a simple. Oh no, no, no. Then the next imitator was actually, I used to sell like so much bread to Gourmet Garage when they first opened that, you know, they literally were buying hundreds of loaves of bread a day at their store on in Soho on Broom and Mercer. I remember that store.
+
+[25:19] And I would even remember even in the winter time with a with a a um a shopping cart pushing fresh bread during the middle of a snowstorm because they called up and they were desperate because everyone was descending upon them to buy to stock up, you know. And then I guess the owner of the business or one of the owners of the business, I guess they kept trying to muscle me for a steep discount. Was it was it Andy? Probably. Actually, it was.
+
+[25:47] Um so anyway, he tried to muscle me for a discount and I wouldn't give it to him. So he got Keith from Orwashers to knock off all the breads that I was making. And then what they did was But in Ride. No, no, no, they did no, it was different. The shapes were different and the fermentation was different.
+
+[26:03] Just full of caraway. No, they but they basically slapped their label on it, put it where my product had been for like two or three years while I helped them build up their sales. But I'm not resentful at all. Not at all. Because no one shops at cream here.
+
+[26:16] No, because no one shops at Gourmag. It's the Jinwehe resentment hour. Non-cooking issue. Resentment tour. No, not at all.
+
+[26:23] No, it's cool because, but this is also the way, unfortunately or fortunately, this is the way that people do business in New York City. It's a dog eat dog world. You know, my you know, I could tell you stories about my business partner partner that would original business partner, Joe Allen that would make your head spin. That's day she's Daisy? No, Joe Allen, the restaurant.
+
+[26:43] For whom at the same time, because he did believe in me and invested in me, I'm grateful towards my former business partner, Monica. I've I'm grateful in the way that Anakin is grateful to uh you know Obi-Wan. Well, yeah. No, no, hardly. I wouldn't, I wouldn't even make that no.
+
+[27:00] Hardly. No, I mean it's like we've we look, we've we've we've all survived this together. At the end of the day, you know, it's like I'm I'm a small tiny little artisan bakery in New York City trying to sell to restaurants and chefs that that care about the quality of the food that they're so in the mid-2000s, right? You'd go to a restaurant and there'd be Sullivan Street on the table. Remember back when people used to just put bread on the table?
+
+[27:26] I was like, oh my god. And then be like, they're like, don't fill up on bread. I'm like, why don't you shut up? First of all, I'm not gonna fill up. That doesn't happen.
+
+[27:34] That's not a thing. And secondly, I want to eat the bread. But when we get the bread, I'd be like, awesome, Sullivan's. And now I would eat it. Whether with olive oil or butter, by the way, do you like what do you guys feel?
+
+[27:42] You want olive oil on the table and salt or butter? It depends on where I am, I think. For me, it's all about the quality of all three. If it's good oil and good butter. I mostly want oil.
+
+[27:52] If it's good oil and good butter and good bread, great. But if it's crappy oil and good bread, no. Salted butter or unsalted butter. It's just gotta be good butter. I don't care if it's you know, you don't care?
+
+[28:02] Well, I I'll uh well, I mean, I cares. I I I uh I I like uh like Vermont creamery. I love I love their butter. You know, my current favorite butter is not even cultured. What is it?
+
+[28:14] Is it Beppio Chelli's butter? Yeah. It's real good. Yeah. I like I like I we use Kerry Gold at home.
+
+[28:14] Yeah? I like carry gold. Yeah, that's my half, my quarter Irish. The closest good butter to me is at Essex Formaggio is the barat or how you pronounce it. It's good.
+
+[28:29] It's pretty good what John, what were you gonna say? You were shaking your head back there. Well, it's clearly salted butter. Salted butter. I was having this conversation.
+
+[28:36] But I have a affection for salt less butter because I spent so much time in Tuscany. Oh my god. Oh my god. And and I understand, I understand the psychologia. Psychologia.
+
+[28:49] Why would you spend time in the worst bread area in the whole world? It's it's not. It's it's you have to understand. We've had this conversation so many times. Peter, this is you on you now.
+
+[28:57] Ready? The flowers. Okay. Every time he's on the show, or every time I see him, crappy Tuscan bread comes up. And for those of you that don't know what we're talking about, Tuscan bread is world renowned for the worst bread in the world.
+
+[29:10] And the only reason is because they don't add salt. It's just trash. Salt is a functional ingredient. It's not just flavor, it's a functional freak ingredient. So the bread is like pasty white looking with this weird freaking bloom on top.
+
+[29:23] It just sucks. It's just bad. The texture's bad, the flavor's bad. It's trash. I am I am the only one who will defend it because I've actually had really good tusting.
+
+[29:31] Okay, and Jim's like, I'll make you good toast without salt. How many years? That's a good thing. How many decades? That's a good imitation.
+
+[29:37] Yeah, you're right. Yeah, and it's never happened. You know why? Because it cannot be done. I have to complain a little bit more though.
+
+[29:44] Of course it can. Okay. So I'm gonna I'm in a very good. It's not very good though. No, I wouldn't agree with that.
+
+[29:50] But he explained to me once it's because what you're supposed to eat it with is like I've heard the so many times. I hate this argument. But it is actually true. It's good about it. The sauce that you're or whatever you're eating it with.
+
+[29:59] We oversold everything else. Yeah. But I'm not defending it. I don't think it's disgusting. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[30:04] Yeah. Or Dunkin' and wine or something. You know, like anything. Or put salted butter on it. Salt.
+
+[30:10] So my theory about salted butter is not good. Look, like chefs like a lot of chefs like unsalty, like Wiley, my brother-in-law Wiley, is an unsalted butter guy. And I'm like, why, man? Because he's cooking a lot, and so he wants to cook. He doesn't want to add salt with it.
+
+[30:24] But I agree with that. When I was a kid, they used to tell you not to that if you should buy unsalted butter because everyone was afraid salt is a preservative. So they're afraid that someone's trying to sell you old butter and that the old butter, if it's salted, it can last longer. So it's a freshness issue. But I'm spending so much money on my butter, it's fresh.
+
+[30:39] You know what I mean? It's like it's fresh. Put salt in it, so it tastes good if I'm gonna put it on bread. That's all I'm saying. Yeah.
+
+[30:46] I like, yeah. But to answer your question, it it's really about the quality of all three, or any of or any of the two. Okay. I don't mind. I I I really don't like I went to a restaurant once to complain again on 40 on 46th Street, like one of these old Italian restaurants, uh Latanzi, I think it was called.
+
+[31:07] And apart from the fact that nothing on the wine list, like I ordered a wine and the wine they served me was incorrect, and I could taste it wasn't the grape. They didn't show you the bottle. Um no, they had a list. And then I said, Can you show me the the wine that I ordered? Can you show?
+
+[31:22] And then the waiter comes back and apologizes. And then at a certain point Well, you got a free bottle of wine then. Well, no, at a certain point during the middle of the meal, um, I I was kind of like conversing back and forth with my wife whether I should point. I was just getting very annoyed that they were serving oil as olive oil that was not olive oil. Well, was it?
+
+[31:43] It was like a mixture of like I don't even know, to be honest with you, but it was not olive oil. And so at one point I asked the waiter the over and this when the Please tell me you didn't ask to see the bottle of oil. No, no, no. I was yeah, I did actually. But but when the waiter came over, when the waiter came over, I'm like, um like come closer.
+
+[32:05] I'm like, it's not olive oil. I you know, and then and then the manager comes over and he kind of apologizes, and I'm like, but you you really should you shouldn't serve olive oil to people. I mean, it's like it's kind of like treating the consumer or the person who's dining out uh like they're idiots. And I and I kind of feel like, you know, there's a lot of that kind of business of restauranting, let's say, that still goes on. Where people are so con I mean, they you know, there's so you know, the reason why the restaurant wasn't crowded is because locals like me won't go there because they're like bullshitting the bullshitting the people and they shouldn't they should own up.
+
+[32:46] And if you're gonna put olive oil out, serve olive. You're gonna put bread up, mental note, do not go out to dinner with Jim Lane. I know it's easy to go out with. No, I have to go to really good restaurants where where where everyone cares. Oh come on.
+
+[33:00] With your monocle? No, never. I'm not I'm not a snob. Yeah, okay. I was I listen, I was spoiled by spending time in in in Italy, you know, I mean, not living a fancy life, but like, you know, I had a great time and uh in my in my youth, uh, and I was exposed to like all sorts of incredible foods and way which is that for everyone.
+
+[33:27] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and also we have that here too. I mean, it's like, you know.
+
+[33:30] You know, spit tasting his mixed oil at the uh the what? Filth! Like it's a cutola oil. Imagine though if it was like straight up salad oil. The thing is, restaurants make mistakes, dude.
+
+[33:44] Yeah, but this is like that's kind of like unforgivable. Speaking of mistakes, check this out. Here's some here's some old school Sullivans, right? So, like if you go to a restaurant that had the Sullivans, and then like a couple weeks later you go, sometimes they wouldn't have it, and you're like, What's up? Why don't you have the sullians anymore?
+
+[33:58] And they would say, because you were famous for this. Famous for this. He they'd be like, he would bing bring the bread and it was darker than it normally is, and he told us to he told us to to take it or leave it and shut up. And we're like, okay. That might have been my bread distributor.
+
+[34:18] Not I would never do that. Um I like it dark and I like it. I'm not saying anything negative. But I'm but I'm saying, but I would I personally never did that, but I I would I would like not sell product to people if it wasn't made correctly. But I think my bread distributor, um I had a I you know, Joe Allen set me up so that I had no control over getting the getting the bread to the customer, and he set up one of his guys.
+
+[34:46] Who's a little bit of a little bit of a it was like an inside like he wanted control over the whatever the the distribution of the product. That was one of uh that was Il Forno bake became Il Forno Bakery. Yeah. Hey, you're gonna take this bread or you're gonna take nothing. This bread or nothing.
+
+[35:00] Well, that's why I started I started distributing my own bread after 9-11 because I had started receiving so many complaints that my bread distributor at the time, who I'm friends with now, I mean, he's former bread distributor, slash competitor, i.e., he tried to put me out of business, but he was just a pawn of Joe. He was just a pawn of Joe. That's all. Joe, Joe wanted. I'm friends with him now, but he's useless.
+
+[35:24] He's just a pawn. He's he's a he's a base. It was after 911. That also could have been the Molly. No, it wasn't the monster.
+
+[35:30] He was a pawn. No, he was he was just trying to like put me out of business for Joe's designs. Joe had Joe had designs on things. Some current shade from me now. What's with the plastic bag?
+
+[35:42] Go back to glassine. What the hell? What plastic bag? You were using I I got some bread from you recently with the dotted plastic bag. Like the m the Where at Butterfield?
+
+[35:50] No, at uh DuPalo's. Really? Oh, that's them. That's not me. I said, where's the Sullivan's bag?
+
+[35:56] Though you're just not giving them any bag. No, we we should give them, we should give them the the with the green or whatever writing. No, yeah, it would be great if we could have glass scene, but uh we have to import that paper from Europe, which I'm kind of working on this year. The um the the way they bag is they I think they repackage a lot of the products themselves, and I have to work with them to to solve that. They're super into hygiene, so they don't want to pick up yeah the loaf.
+
+[36:25] Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, we're we're working on that though. I I I saw that recently when I went and visited uh Lewis and Sal. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[36:33] Yeah. I hear I hear you though. Um I was like, what the hell? They should they should use, you know, this perforated I gave Peter Hill because I saw him at that time because we were that night. We see when you were going to check out uh you were tone air.
+
+[36:46] Peter was yeah, Peter was like scoping the panatine. Uh huh. Scoping the racks. Scoping the racks. Yeah.
+
+[36:53] Uh all right, okay. So back to uh things that have happened this week. We are almost done with the show, and uh, we haven't even talked about uh the week yet. So here's what I'm gonna say about this Vegemite, yes. Vegemite, yes.
+
+[37:04] Vegemite. Vegemite. Yes. Yes. And now we need to have a taste off.
+
+[37:09] I'll bring some vegemite. We need Joe is a Joe's a uh a marmite guy. Mm-hmm. Right? I like marmite, but I've never had either.
+
+[37:16] I've never had marmite. I've had both. Have you had veg have you had vegemite, Joe? I've had both. Um I don't care for either of them.
+
+[37:25] My wife is the Brit. She loves the marmite. And she's against heavily against the vegemite. Of course she is. Any British person hates vegemite and any Australian person hates marmite.
+
+[37:37] Vegemite was invented because of a marmite shortage in Australia right after World War I. They couldn't get the shipments of marmite from so what in case you didn't know what this stuff is, and someone's gonna ask about nutritional yeast. I don't think you can do it, is you get brewer's yeast. Oh, I was I was gonna go there, but okay. Spent spent brewer's yeast, and they they buy it in bulk.
+
+[38:01] I think that they wash it to get some of the hops off. Although I I spoke to Garrett or texted with uh Garrett Oliver over at Brooklyn Brewery. I asked him if he's ever done like a brooklamite out of like his spent yeast, and he says he hasn't. And I told him I think the technique is that you wash the yeast to get some of the hop stuff off. And he's like, well, it's difficult because some of the hops uh bitterness is like very tightly bound onto the yeast cell walls.
+
+[38:25] But what you do is I think you wash it once, and then you uh you kind of incubate it and with salt and it breaks down and it leaches like all of its like you know, internal yeasty goodness into the liquid. You then spin out the uh you spin out the the cells, the solids, and then you have just this kind of like you know broth yeast broth without the cell walls that's mostly debittered then you vacuum um you vacuum concentrate the hell out of it down to a paste and then if you're I think that's it if you're marmeat and then if you're vegemite you add I believe celery and onion flavor to it. Here's a good food history question for you Dave to probably have the answer. When and who invented vegemite or marmite uh marmite was in I believe the 1880s and it was uh based on a like a a a just von liebig thing and uh vegemite was invented uh in like the early 20s and marketed first in 1923 Australia. But probably invented Melbourne I think to to deal with this large scale industrial scale production of beer yeast.
+
+[39:35] Yeah it's probably one of these things going hand in hand like it's it's like it's like it's like the petroleum industry gets gets put into our the byproducts and waste products of of uh mining and and taking oil out of the earth gets put back into our asphalt. Right. Well you also made of like the waste of the oil industry. It's or our or our the b plastic bottles that we drink water out of. It's kind of overdetermined because it was also at a time in England that uh where people were obsessed with uh meat concentrates.
+
+[40:09] So you had like beef tea and you had uh you know was it was a thing and you have uh nutrition. Nutrition, like so this idea that like the like a kind of lack of understanding that you need a a bunch of solids to remain alive and trying to concentrate the the kind of good parts of um these protein protein bases into these you know hyper concentrated. So that's where like a lot of that like all those like super concentrated broths and whatnot. Right. It's also a product of the industrial revolution that was gone full swing up at the time.
+
+[40:42] Right, yeah, right. That's what I'm saying, like a lot of it was just mass production of food to keep to keep the slaves from revolting. I mean uh Irish or yeah, yeah. Well, no, but no, well, anyone anyone who who doesn't own real property and just gets paid like an hourly wage. Well, starting in the 1850s, uh so like you know, after the French Revolution and starting really heavily in the 18 probably 40s and 50s, you started having um uh kind of popular cookbooks for the poor, like uh Alexis Sawyers uh wrote a wrote a book in the mid-18, like the upper eighteen af after, you know, after our Civil War.
+
+[41:21] Um but there's all these books where it's talk about like uh concentrated food for the for the poor and food for the masses. So marmite comes out of this kind of attempt to provide this concentrated form of nutrition. And vegemite was the same. In fact, vegemite ended up in uh soldiers' rations uh in World War II, Australian Anzac soldiers uh rations. So it was definitely seen as a as a health, as a health thing in the jig.
+
+[41:47] But what it's good at, right? I think the reason that most of us hate it is is that you're not supposed to like it. So you you look at it and uh it's vegemite is real thick, like peanut butter thick, in fact, thicker than peanut butter. And uh you know, people look at it and they're like, oh, use this like peanut butter. And I don't mean flavor-wise, I mean quantity-wise.
+
+[42:07] No, no. It is supposed to be the thinnest. Do you know how like for those of you that like grew up in New York, uh, when I when you when I was a kid, like you got a reasonable amount of cream cheese on a bagel. Now it's like it's like a block of cream cheese, you know, like you you have to get like three bagels to use up the cream cheese they put on one bagel. So like a real honest to God schmear, this is even thinner than that.
+
+[42:27] Like I'm talking the whisp a wisp like wiped across uh the bread and typically with butter, but it's great with avocado. Speaking about old bakeries, do you remember co the original Kosars? Of course. When it was good. Of course.
+
+[42:40] It's amazing. Mean mean mean man, mean woman. Yeah. They were so mean. I love their I loved of their bialis were fantastic.
+
+[42:47] And I like their bagels too. So bealis were like the bomb back in the eighties. And I thought their bagels were good. They were good all the way up until two thousand and seven. Yeah.
+
+[42:58] Something like that. I think someone bought the brand twice. They bought it twice. Yeah. So the first time it got bought when they sold out, that's when uh they it was crazy because that neighbor this my I live on that block.
+
+[43:09] So like that and I've lived there for twenty something years. So like when I first moved there, that entire block was shut down on Fridays and Saturdays. Like super orthodox, right? Even though the a most of the younger generation uh had already moved across the bridge to Williamsburg, like the old timers were still there. So you had Gertell's which made fantastic babka uh and you know all these places were not open on Fridays and Saturdays.
+
+[43:33] And then all of a sudden Kosars got sold and all of a sudden they were open on Fridays and Saturdays and there was a sign in the window which I have a picture of somewhere where they were like to our Orthodox customers. We sell this business every week on Friday morning to a goi, and then we buy it back on Sunday. So that they could like a goi was operating the business during like during the Sabbath. And, you know, like the real honest to God kosher folk were running it because I mean it was a serious kosher neighborhood. Like uh when the people down the down my hallway had a kid, like I had when I I went to Gertell's, I had to get a special seal on the box to prove that I hadn't kind of that it wasn't that it was still okay.
+
+[44:19] You know what I mean? Like it was a not a fake neighborhood. So then it went from that, and then uh we used to have all these vending machines in the neighborhood. 24-6. It was like Sabbath vending machines or awesome.
+
+[44:31] Anyway, uh so that my first baking job ever when I was in high school was making bagels. Yeah? Yeah. Where used to work at a place on Hillside Avenue called which burnt down, by the way, called Bagel Express. Burnt down a couple of years ago.
+
+[44:46] I was so sad to see it go. What era? Um, this would have been 1981. Yeah. So did you have everything bagels?
+
+[44:55] Um, yeah, we had we had all the bagels you could possibly think of except for rainbow bagels back then. It was just it was pretty much a straightforward bagel bakery. When was the everything bagel? I forget. It was somewhere around the 80s, right?
+
+[45:06] Yeah, no, we had we had everything bagels. Yeah. Rainbow bagels are kind of silly. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[45:12] Does that that new book that just came out on sourdough? I didn't read it. No. Is it about rainbow sourdough bagels? But it's so silly.
+
+[45:19] Is that a thing? Rainbow sourdough bagels? It's funny. I started reading the forward. What's worse, rainbow bagels or blueberry bagels?
+
+[45:25] Um, I think they look, does rainbow does the rainbow bagel taste like anything? No, tastes no. No, no, I think I think they're egg bagels. Uh so to get the yellow, I think they're egg bagels. I'm not sure.
+
+[45:35] I'm not, I've never I like egg bagels, but I don't love egg bagels. I'm not I'm not an egg bagel guy. I'm not against them. I'm not saying they shouldn't be. I mean, yeah.
+
+[45:44] That's the problem with like all baked goods. But if you think it and you dry it for like three days, we never asked you this. So, like your crazy crouton recipe. Let's let's get back to the crazy crouton recipe. Sorry, we're gonna circle.
+
+[45:58] What happen what happens if you just rip it up and then soak it and then dry it again and without going through the whole mishigas? Uh yeah, I mean I guess you could do that. I mean, really it's the most important thing is it's about staling it. It has to be completely stale. So the only issue is that if you were to to take pieces, shreds of bread, like ripped from the inside of the crumb, stale it on a sheet tray, and then rehydrate it, and then try to press out the water and redry them.
+
+[46:26] That might work. You think the pressing is necessary? I th well, I mean, if if like a sponge, it's gonna take forever to dry. I mean, I got time. And most likely with with the content of starch in the flora of your hands from having pressed it, most likely it will mold.
+
+[46:43] So if you remove the water quickly quickly enough, it's like pancoat breadcrumbs are made in this way. Panko breadcrumbs have a special machine. They bake it between two resistive plates so that the fibers go straight up in the air. I mean, like panko is like a very tweaked out McGill. You know what?
+
+[46:58] I I've tested it out. Panco bread crumbs somehow the the um They're also crustless. Well, well, that's another thing, too. Crustless. Um but in in my I say opinion, it's a dangerous word.
+
+[47:14] I what I've been able to do is replicate the texture of panko breadcrumbs using the same method. Oh, I see. All right. Well, the stuff is so how do you how do you orient the strands? Is it when the compression you instance?
+
+[47:25] It's about it's about the crumb, the starches crystallize. When bread stales, completely stales, like if you don't let the bread stale, then what happens when you rehydrate it? It remains gummy and it won't and it won't hold its shape, let's say. So when bread, if you look at if you take a very stale piece of bread and you break it in half and you have a microscope that's strong, even if your eye, you could see that it is crystallizing. That the crumb crystallizes, it dries so much that it crystallizes.
+
+[47:58] So when you rehydrate it, you change the actual structure of the starch, especially when you remove the water once again from it. It's almost like you can take bread that's incredibly stale. Um, and we did this for whatever Dan Barber once upon a time at uh when he was doing his whole wasted thing. Um to make that I made him some bread with you can you can take old bread and put it back into a mixer, let's say, if you if you rehydrate it. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[48:28] Hold on a second. The compression when you squeeze it, is that orienting? Because their panko is not just that it's dried out and that it's crust, it's also that the that the cells are oriented because of the way it's baked. So do you get some of that orientation when you it's not baked, it's dried. Panko bread crumbs are are white.
+
+[48:46] So let's say you're making it because they're baked in a resistive oven without with where they never touch normal heat, but like they the prime thing is that they it's oriented. So is the compression. What I'm trying to get out of you is when you squeeze it again, are you getting some of that acicular shape of the cells that the Yeah, like you could theoretically centrifuge water out of the crumb of of stale bread too? I I'm not sure. I'm not sure of the the the process because I've never been to a panko.
+
+[49:13] You gotta go, it's amazing you would hate it and love it yeah it's crazy yeah it's nuts however if you want to make your own panko style breadcrumbs that are even better than panko breads that's that's strong words you should you should the the recipe exists in the 15th year anniversary of my bread which comes out today oh is that why we're here no one even told me sorry save save save the book tell me no I didn't get the book no it was sent to your house I didn't get it do you have it here no of course not son of a guy well this is normally normally I read the whole book and then we talk about it but I've not received the book and then and the and the also in the cookbook it's the 15th anniversary of of the of my bread with some updates and additions Peter patiently helped rewrite a lot of it is it still have your face with the bread over it no oh yeah that picture's still there the cover they cut change the cover we have a bunch of recipes that use miso paste mis yeah because I love miso paste do you what kind of me cell red oh speaking of miso holy crap we gotta give a shout out uh to uh let's see I guess so our good friend um uh Rich She has a a new substack called uh flavor freaks where uh where he uh you know talks uh you know you go join that like you just join a Patreon I don't really know how Substack works tricky but uh Rich is like uh one of the you know he is old school koji Koji McCoji in the get fresh cojies so uh you know we want to support him uh as as much as we can and I can't believe you have a new book out you I didn't even like what's that's the kind of guy that I am. I don't believe that's a good idea. Is it still have the slug? Does it still have the slug? The same slug.
+
+[50:52] No work no yeah yeah no work, no need. Uh Maria Guarnicelli. Maria Guarnicelli. Maria Guarn Shelly. I love Maria.
+
+[50:58] Oh my God. I was thinking about her today. Uh when she as like literally when she said to me, I was I mentioned someone, and she says, Oh, I hope they're dead. Please, someone call me and tell me he's dead. And I was like, oh my God, Silveria.
+
+[51:14] I was thinking I think about her quite often. I do too. Yeah. She actually gave me so much advice I didn't didn't listen to. Like call the name name my book the Leahy Method, as opposed to associate my name with the instead of it being no need.
+
+[51:29] Because of course, once Bittman named it No Need, all of a sudden it becomes a feeding frenzy, and everyone's saying, I invented that recipe. Oh, I came up. And it's like it's like it doesn't really matter. It existed before all of us. Um at the end of the day, it's like how everyone bakes now.
+
+[51:46] I mean it's like everyone does videos on this method, and it's just how people bake. It's kind of cool. Yeah. All right. That's the that's the that's the legacy is like you you plant seeds and you don't get to see what happens afterwards, which is kind of cool.
+
+[52:01] Why don't you get to see? Were you gonna die before they sprout? Uh no, because well, I mean, we'll see how many new artists and bakeries open up in New York City in the next three to five years. Biff, Biff wants to know. Uh can you speak about using fresh high extraction flour?
+
+[52:15] So remove the brand fragments, but keep a significant ash content in no need doughs. What hydration uh do you go for? And uh how many folds is a sour method, uh sourdough method okay? Or do you recommend uh commercially yeast it? And I'm gonna add because there's different ways to make high extraction flour.
+
+[52:33] So I'm curious whether this is like single pass, home mill, one sift, or or exactly what you're doing. All are gonna produce different flowers. All right, go to it. Yeah, um, it really depends on the flour uh and the quality of the flour to store it, the quality of the grain to store it. Um if the I mean, I always say that with bread making, it's all about the falling number.
+
+[52:53] So if the falling number is high, you can um have dough ferment a lot, um, and then you can make it into something that will actually proof and become enjoyable to eat if the fall if the uh Right. So fall falling numbers, yeah. Is is this is the qual is a way of measuring the quality of the protein in the flour. It doesn't matter what the percentage of the protein is, it em it matters that the quality of the protein. So enzymes in flour will break down starches.
+
+[53:24] When the enzymes break down starches, the dough goes slack because it can no longer hold the water that it was once holding, especially damaged starch. So the higher the damaged starch amount in your flour, the more important the enzymes are to the dough structure, and uh the more enzymes that are present or the more active they are, the more slack your dough is gonna go over time. So if you have what's called a low falling low, I was afraid which, yeah, low falling number, it means you have very active enzymes, which can happen a lot if you're milling your own flour and you don't have control if there's been any sprouting. But it could also, like, you know, flowers from Tuscany. Have a very low falling number.
+
+[53:59] They would be like flowers grown, flour grown in Pennsylvania. It's like it's not, it's more for cake. And literally the way they measure this, I think, is to make a slurry, let it sit for a known amount of time, and then drop a stick through it and see how fast the stick takes to fall. I think that's how it works. No, actually, it it has to do with uh it's actually in a tube and and and the dough actually uh it's um don't they drop something through it a vi I always thought that falling number had was uh like in a a violograph.
+
+[54:25] Uh-huh. Like they're measuring, they're measuring, they're measuring the the the length of time the volume that the the dough will actually hold like uh a it's level. Oh I thought they were measuring how long it takes something to drop through it. Maybe I don't know whatever. It's a measure of how slack the thing goes.
+
+[54:43] But it's it's you could make your own you don't need like the commercial if you're milling your own flour biff, you can just make a like a make something and then compare it with something of a known high falling number, right? But the issue is this the falling number is going to also be related to what the uh how much water a particular flour wants to take off. And also if you know that your dough is weaker, your flour is weaker, you you would not ferment it as much before shaping it and change your expectation about what the end product the finished end product is supposed to be like texturally. So if you want it to perform like a bag of commercial flour you buy in the supermarket, you're gonna be very disappointed. Yeah.
+
+[55:28] I mean I I have found I I I love I love wheat brand I love leaving the brand inside wheat because it it does actually enhance the fermentation because of all the enzymes. I've found that h like home milled flour of unspecified falling number remember you need a lot higher hydration for because the brand soaks up a lot more water than the other stuff for a given protein for a given and so I find that a lot of times those doughs will go slack on super long fermentations if you're grinding your own. Yeah. You know, um, that's my been my experience. Yeah.
+
+[56:04] And no one wants your dough to go slack. No one wants your dough to go to slack. Yeah. Nothing, nothing worse than a slack dough. Yeah.
+
+[56:10] It's a real disappointment. Well, on the other hand, like uh, and they don't, they don't like uh they never get I mean like when you do this high hydration, you do high hydration with those, uh with with these, like um, they never get kind of as taut as like some of the commercial uh flowers. Like, you know, when you're full when you're folding your your stuff and putting it, it's kind of hold itself. Sometimes these doughs, when they get like older kids like that. I want to answer Biff's question.
+
+[56:35] But so anyway, the the folding will will strengthen the dough. It will also, if you're using sourdough, uh I have I've found in it folding does seem to um benefit more uh benefit more um the fermentation of yeasts over bacteria. Um but that also could be anecdotal because it has a lot to do with the temperature of the dough. Um but you know, the the um, you know, depending on the whole temperature of the dough, yeasts re replicate a lot slower than do bacteria. Um and also it has a lot to do with the both the quantity and the state of the sourdough, the starter that you add.
+
+[57:21] So if the dough has a large percentage of starter and it's not acidic, um, it will behave and and act on the remaining the the flour and water that you're adding it to differently than if you had like a a small little chunk that was like like acid, like uh do you think do you think high ash and uh high bran uh doughs are more susceptible to uh losing their structure when the acid goes too high, when the pH drops too much, as opposed to like uh, you know, when you're using like uh, you know, it's a standard bread flour. High ash and high what? Like a high extraction. So if there's more bran in there, right? Do you think that they're more susceptible to kind of gluten breakdown when the pH goes too low?
+
+[58:04] Um no, I think it has, I mean, I think that bran particle size has a lot to do with it and shape. So if if you you've noticed that some flowers, a whole wheat flowers will have like very large, like stone mills will give you these bran flakes that are large and flat. Whereas some uh roller mill companies or millers will have like the the brand broken up into this I've never had one of those I liked. Yeah, but I don't I've never had a whole uh roller milled whole wheat flour I intended. Well, yeah, I I I I kind of agree with you there.
+
+[58:33] Yeah, but it's terrible stuff. But it's nightmare. But they but they can do that. They just it just I've never I've I've tried as many as I can find, and I've never had a roller milled whole wheat flour that I thought was worth spit. Who's your favorite flour producer regionally?
+
+[58:48] I don't buy flour anymore. Do you eat bread? Uh yeah, but I mill it all. Okay. I do only whole mill.
+
+[58:54] Where do you get your grains from? Uh all over, actually. So like uh I've right now I've been getting uh my favorite I like the I like the um Bel de Rouge, which uh I forget which farmer gets it, but I get that mainly from Bredtopia. I like uh your coro row, I like turkey red, I like uh I think red fife's overrated. I like but you're buying regionally.
+
+[59:15] No, I can't anymore. I used to be able to buy them and then uh the the green market stopped doing grain sales. And so when did that happen? Like two years ago. Wow, it's too bad.
+
+[59:25] Yeah. I used to be able to buy 50-pound sacks from them from local local farmers. Back then I used to get Redeemer and Warthog locally. Yeah. But you can't anymore.
+
+[59:32] Wait, hold on. Uh Z Banks. I accidentally ordered a huge bag of nutritional yeast, 10 times the size I intended. I'd love it on eggs and popcorn, but can only eat so much. I also tried it in pizza dough, hoping to get more depth in umami, but it didn't really make any difference.
+
+[59:43] Maybe I should just add more. What are some other good uses for nutritional yeast? You got any good nutritional yeast uses? I like as a substitute for um yes, I like using nutritional yeast on um like uh pasta made with uh mushrooms. All right.
+
+[59:59] Yeah, it's really great. Yeah, I like it in coleslaw. Yeah. I like it. I like it on kale.
+
+[1:00:03] Kale salad. Yeah, by the way. Kale salad. You just triggered me. I don't have any I'm I'm out of time.
+
+[1:00:08] And you just said kale salad. World's worst salad. No, it's not. It's trash. I'm gonna make you a kale salad with a lot of things.
+
+[1:00:13] Oh my god. With the Tuscan bread? No, forget that. That's fine. No, no, no.
+
+[1:00:18] All right. Listen, Alexander, I'm gonna talk about I'm gonna talk about your vanilla bean problem next time uh when we're back on cooking issues, but I have my issues with vanilla extracts. Uh I love it, but making vanilla extract. Because I think vanilla extract, like commercial vanilla extract, is like not like the way we would make it at home. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[1:00:36] Anyway, uh buy the new edition of the book. Uh so how many is this one of those things where I have to buy even if I have the old one? Because it's got a bunch of new stuff in it. I'm gonna let Peter answer that one. There are five new recipes and a forward by Martha Stewart.
+
+[1:00:48] Oh right. It's up to you. That matters to you. All right, all right. See you soon.
+
+[1:00:55] Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Yeshu's coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan Rocket Fletter Center, New York City, News Dam Studios, joined as usual with Hyme today. John, how you doing? Doing great. Got uh Joe Hazen rocking the panels.
+
+[0:24] What's up? Hey, welcome to the show. Yeah, hey, I hear Nastasia's coming a little later, so hopefully we get her a little later in the program. We got uh, I think Jackie Molecules in Los Angeles. Yes, sir.
+
+[0:36] How's it going? It's going well. How are you going? Yeah, I'm good. Good.
+
+[0:42] And uh, since I came in here like hot and heavy, do we have the upper left today? No, Quinn's still not feeling up to it. Hopefully, maybe he'll call in towards the end of the program and give a howdy. Uh be good to hear from Quinn. So, uh, without further ado, uh, introduce today's special guest, uh, oftentimes guest, friend of the show.
+
+[1:02] I'm gonna say friend of the show, Captain Oily himself, Nick Coleman. How you doing? How's it going out there, everyone in Radio Lamb? Yeah, and Bassin Bansuri Master. Uh yeah, since the last time I was on the show, we went to uh go see what's the name of the um what's the name of the band that you're the the the bassist in?
+
+[1:20] They they Oh Dr. Baklava and Human Growth Hormone. HGH. Now let me ask you a question about human growth hormone. Is uh is that the stuff that when it runs unchecked it leads to aggro mellic uh aggromelic you know the the word that I can't pronounce that Andre the Giant hat and uh and uh Ted Cassidy who played Lurch.
+
+[1:38] Some sort of enlarging of the human genetic I can see the word, but I can't say it. Agromegoli. Agromega. I can't say that. I I don't even know what you're referring to.
+
+[1:51] You grow real, real tall, you get a real, real deep voice, and eventually it ends up being harmful because your bones keep growing past when they should. I know nothing of this. All I know how to do is play bass. Well, and apparently name your band. Acromegally.
+
+[2:06] There you go. There you go. I don't know why. It's one of those words I can't say. Never heard of.
+
+[2:10] Oh, you gotta look that up. That's uh Andre the Giant. Yeah. Yeah. And the pituitary glands produce too much growth hormones.
+
+[2:17] Yeah. Yeah. Too much of a good thing. That's uh that's my opinion. It's given to young children who are uh small and they need to grow more, they'll they'll HGH them.
+
+[2:27] I think the the issue is that there are therapeutic levels of everything and then there are non-therapeutic levels. And as Americans, we often fall prey to the if a little bit is good, maybe a crap ton is better. Yeah. The classic uh Britney Spears quote, give me more. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[2:43] When all you know, I I get it. Never being satisfied is helpful for self-growth. Not hormone growth, but you know, self-growth, like never being fully satisfied. But you should be happy with what you've accomplished while at the same time not feeling completely satisfied, like you have nothing else to do. Correct.
+
+[2:58] Resting on the laurels is the end of everything. Correct, correct. I like the color of your shirt, by the way. I hope people who are on Patreon can see the color of your shirt. It's uh I can't really describe it.
+
+[3:06] It's a dark teal. It's uh I I I love Joni Mitchell, and Joni Mitchell wears things like this in the 80s when she would play live, so I wanted to channel dear Joan. It also feels soft. May I touch it? Oh, you put you may very well to oh it is, yes.
+
+[3:21] It's nice and soft. Uh it's the kind of thing where I I if I saw it on a rack, I'd be like, oh yeah, oh yeah. I don't know that I could rock that color. I think it would make me look sick, but you can. Oh, thank you.
+
+[3:31] Maybe it's the beard. Uh if you are listening on Patreon, call in your oily oily oily questions to 917 410 1507. That's 917 410 1507. And if they're not on Patreon, uh John, why don't you tell them why they might want to be and how they do that? You go to Patreon.com slash cooking issues.
+
+[3:50] There's a couple different membership levels. You get uh different perks at every membership level, like uh access to the video, so you could see it in Nick Coleman's shirt right now if you were of that membership level. Yeah, good color, no? Yeah, excellent color. Joey and Mitchell love.
+
+[4:03] Yeah. Um you get discounts to books for uh Kitchen Arts and Letters. You get prioritized questions being answered. Um we got some great guests coming up. Um so yeah, just a lot of great things to look forward to.
+
+[4:13] So Patreon.com slash cooking issues. By the way, last week on the show, we had uh uh Jim Leahy and um and uh Peter Hoffman, uh, you know, his co-writer. And the book that I was supposed to be talking to him about arrived yesterday. Nice. Excellent.
+
+[4:29] Nice good timing. Nice, yeah. Perfect. Yep, perfect. That's the first time that's ever happened.
+
+[4:33] Someone showed up that I know personally, and I was like, what do you mean you got a new book out? Oh crap. You know what I mean? First time ever. First time?
+
+[4:42] I hope last time. So uh do you guys I'm gonna push a little something for uh my man John here. I don't know if you know this, Nick and uh or Jack over there next time you're in uh New York or Joe. Uh temperance wine bar, where so John left Booker and Dax. Uh he had Quinn's job.
+
+[5:02] And he left Booker and Dax and the centrifuge biz in general, and uh to become the chef of what at the time was Temperance Wine Bar. It is now being relaunched to more focus just on temperance being a restaurant that also has an excellent wine list. Am I correct here? That is correct. All right.
+
+[5:21] Yeah, thank you. Yeah, so uh you want to say something about and you've been talking on the air about uh developing a new menu, but you know, I think people who are, you know, pros in the in the industry like talking about menu development. So what do you got going? I know you're uh you're doing the relaunch, I think what, like the official one on Saturday? I guess next Thursday.
+
+[5:38] The menu's been out for about two or three weeks now, um, fully, and it's been going well. Um happy to hear it, and it's nice to be doing food that's more personal to me. Whereas, you know, I liked the food that I was doing before this, but that was just more kind of like generic wine bar neighborhood-y kind of thing. Now it's more creative, there's more technique going into it, and it's been uh a lot more fun to do when cooked and plate. And you know, it's fun to have your see a bit of yourself on the plate, I guess.
+
+[6:08] So it's nice to finally be at that point in my career. Thank you. All right. So what was the uh what was the dish? What was the dish in this menu that because there's always one where you went really far down a road, like tweaking, tweaking, and then all of a sudden we're like, well, oh, oh, ah, and then it had to go back to some sort of internal roots and reset and it came out better.
+
+[6:29] Probably the fish dish, the water zooy, um, really fudged around with that sauce a lot, which is now just a little bit of reduced fish stock and a uh heavy cream that has uh leaks blended and strained out, so it's got a nice leaky flavor. But it was trying to get those three flavors in balance. And you know, at one point I was really just trying to do too much with the leaks to try and make sure it was on the plate um and it was just too much, and then I just had to revert back and just kind of dial in the ratios. So I think that's the answer to that question. And I think it's helpful people because like I want people who are out there beating their heads against the wall on a particular menu item or food.
+
+[7:08] Just chill for a minute. Just take a chill pill. Reset. Yeah, just go back to square two or something like that and start resetting from there. There was a good nugget of an idea, and once you get too far from me, you just gotta go back.
+
+[7:14] Yeah, get that nugget back. The Nintendo Entertainment System only had two buttons power and reset. Lest we forget the power of the reset. Well said. There you go.
+
+[7:31] There you go. You know what's another uh this one, two buttons just to work it was do you ever play the game track and field? Yes. Yeah. Literally just two buttons.
+
+[7:39] And if you're if your fingers aren't almost broken by the time you've played track and field, like like you are not playing it correctly. It really destroys wrists and finger movement. Yeah, it's really good if you're like a kung fu practitioner and you're practicing iron iron hands, you know what I mean? Because you're just total carpal tunnel syndrome. Yeah, yeah, it's a nightmare of a game.
+
+[8:02] I mean, I I appreciate playing it. I played it, I built a meme cabin years ago. I and I introduced my kids to this game that I played when I was a little kid, and Dax was like, Oh yeah, all right, I'm gonna beat the hell out of this game. You know what I mean? Like anyway, uh I had something else on uh on you can probably hot rod your buttons too with some come some some cool springs.
+
+[8:21] Yeah, or what if you were like a like a genius and you like almost built your drum like your your buttons like a snare drum? Like you built your own drums that could have like a rap ba so you could be like. You could do some paradiddles and you can do some rolls. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um so back to the cream.
+
+[8:36] I appreciate you bringing the cream out. I hope cream makes a comeback in sauce land. Do you remember Peterson's original sauce book that came out? I want to say in like well, you and you guys were barely born, but it came out in like 1990s. There was a redo, but the original one, the J original James Beard award winning sauce book, when I read that, it was the prime era of if you want to make a sauce, what you do is you add cream and you reduce it.
+
+[9:00] And here's how you make it so it doesn't break. But basically it's all reduced cream. And you know what? When I read that book, I was like, that stuff tastes good. Yeah.
+
+[9:09] Very much so. Yeah. And then we all moved away from it. Yeah. As being quote unquote too heavy, towards what's weird, which is was we moved to a retro French idea of cuisine mass, right?
+
+[9:19] And then and then so now, like I'm glad to see my man John is like, you know what's good? Cream. Yep. It's delicious. It's delicious.
+
+[9:26] Oh, good fats, yeah. And here's something I read. Now, guys, I want you to know I do drink alcohol, but I don't I don't take drugs. Not because I'm against them, it's just it's never become part of my general practice. I'm a little bit worried that my brain's already a little tweaked and I'm worried about tweaking it further.
+
+[9:39] Period. You know what I mean? But I think maybe I was high because I read, I think I read that Vichy Soise is an American freaking dish. Whoa. No way.
+
+[9:51] That's gotta cook a thing. That's what I'm saying. Was I high? Was I dreaming? Is this one of those you know how occasionally misinformation will burrow into your brain while you're asleep, and when you wake up it doesn't vanish like most dreams do?
+
+[10:03] But there's something stuck in my head that Vichy Soise is an American invention. I'm sorry, Dave. I can't allow that. Somebody, somebody, somebody help me out here. Somebody, somebody, somebody please help me.
+
+[10:15] Like, cause it just it like now it's like gnawing at me. Like worse than this UN council meeting traffic that I like an escorfier disciple who was working at the Ritz Carlton here in New York, supposedly. Hey, you know what I don't believe? Any origin story. I don't even know why I brought up because you you you know who you know who cooks a lot of soup with leeks?
+
+[10:37] The French. You know what I'm saying? And so, like, you know, like maybe the term Vichy Swaz, you know what I'm saying? But yeah, you know. What a beautiful term that is.
+
+[10:46] It really rolls off the tongue. Vichy soif. And while we're on soups, borscht hot or cold. Cold. Yeah.
+
+[10:56] Yeah. Foie gras, hot. It depends on the time of year, actually. Oh, okay. It's so temperature based.
+
+[11:02] I don't want to in the summer I want cold, in the winter I want more. The thing about cold soups is unless it's chunky. Unless it's chunky, I feel stupid eating a cold soup with a spoon. What about a salmorejo? The Spanish tomato-based cold soup.
+
+[11:19] Is it similar to a gazpacho? It's similar to like a papal pomodoro, but not as bready. So like a ribolito, but soupier. Soupier. Yeah, it's if it's chunky, if it's got texture, I'm okay.
+
+[11:31] I feel stupid taking a spoon to a cold consume. Might as well drink it. Exactly. And I don't want to drink my beets. So I'm gonna have to say hot on the borscht.
+
+[11:44] What do you think about like a white borsche? It's not really beets. I like the red cold, I like the red hot borsche with a dollop of cold sour cream. Oh yeah! The hot and cold combo is really critical.
+
+[11:55] Now, I'm mentally thinking behind me here, sour cream or creme fresh fool. Sour cream. No, yes. Yeah. Yes, I like the thickness of the sour cream.
+
+[12:05] Yes, yes, Jack, I'm glad you're with me too here. Because everybody here, we all love the taste of creme frage, but it bleeds like a mother. Seriously. Yep. Yeah.
+
+[12:14] It's terrible. It's terrible. And like the real franchise franchise aren't willing to stabilize. We can fix it. I could take creme fraîche right now.
+
+[12:22] I could fix it. You know what I mean? People are like, no, just wait five hours for it to reset. No. No, I'm I'm eating my soup now.
+
+[12:31] Track and field. I'm eating my soup. You know what I mean? Anywho. Oh, I dropped my pen.
+
+[12:37] Which is probably glad for uh for Joe because he's not gonna hear me clicking at it. Uh by the way, last week, for those listening last week, it was not I who was clicking the pen last week. It was not me. I did not click the pen last week. Don't blame me.
+
+[12:51] Pen clickers. Really, really tragedies of society. Do you know who was really good at this uh back in the day was anyone on the debate team but me? They had all in high school learned the pencil flipping trick. Do you guys know what I'm talking about?
+
+[13:07] Yeah. Where they can just sit there, they can stare you dead in the eye, and they can and they can flip their pencil around their finger, yeah? Yeah, yeah. And that's silent. Joe, you should tell make tell everyone that if you if they want to work with you, they have to learn the pencil flip.
+
+[13:20] You know? Is that like the uh like what the drummers do with their sticks? Yeah, but with a pencil, and like it's it's like God's fidget because it's deadly silent. It's just like boom. It's like you can't hear anything.
+
+[13:31] Very ninja, very ninja. It's very like very just silence. Uh yeah. Uh all right, Jack. Since you are our only bi coastal person today, what have you had last week in in the realm of food?
+
+[13:44] Let's try to keep it to food. Yeah, okay. I was in uh Pennsylvania actually with my high school friends who are all like extreme Long Island dudes, you know, like two of them are mechanics and like very, very long island kind of vibe. Extreme Long Island, like they had Camaros. No, no, like accent wise, and just sort of like the palette, the palette, you know, a real Italian uh Long Island guy.
+
+[14:09] Yeah, so so I did uh I did Kenji's um chicken palm recipe, which is like a buttermilk brine, and uh it came out really really well. Yeah, I have to say. All right. Where in Pennsylvania? Yeah.
+
+[14:23] Uh like coconut's area. Like a BMB. It was like a kind of I love it. I love it. I love it over there.
+
+[14:28] I'm going to Pittsburgh in a week, and I have maybe one meal that I get to choose. So I'm gonna stop by. Don't I I can feel John behind me burrowing into my head. I'm gonna stop by the meat store for you on the way over. Excellent.
+
+[14:41] And get you your ring bologna. Beautiful. By the way. And jerky. Yeah, and jerky.
+
+[14:46] I'll get you whatever you want. So the name of the store, what is it? Deach, Deitch, Deach, Deitch? Uh, Dita's. It's this one store when you're traveling across Pennsylvania, you go a certain direction, and it's like it's um, they just hack up every animal and then cure every part of it, and like some of it's in liquids and some of it's jerky, and some of it's yeah, Drix.
+
+[15:09] And they also have a very good, for those of you that have never been to Pennsylvania or understand anything about anything. Pennsylvania is the snack food capital of the world, right? That's why if you look at anything of chips or pretzels, it says, you know, reggae you pen, like it's it's basically like it, like it's a Pennsylvania thing. Like Pen Dutch. Yeah, well, yeah.
+
+[15:32] But they but but it's just potato, everything, all the snacks. You know what I mean? It's like, we're not Fritos. Let's give someone let's give someone else Fritos. You know what I mean?
+
+[15:39] And tortilla chips, but they're now made of it. Fritos, uh Fritos Lay or just Fritos? No, free free toe is the item. Like Frito Lay. Like, like the Fritos, I think, uh, though they're everyone loves them, so they can't be underrated, but I think they're under eaten because they're too expensive.
+
+[15:56] I think the issue with Fritos is is that you look at the bag and you're like, why is that bag five dollars? It's so tiny, but it is heavy because they're a dense thing. They're dense. They're de but they're good. Are you uh pro uh is everyone here pro Frito pie?
+
+[16:09] Oh yeah. Yeah. The hack for me is at 7 Eleven you get the Frito bag. You buy the Frito bag. Right.
+
+[16:16] You then walk over to the chili and the cheese, open the bag, dump the chili and cheese in, and then get a fork and eat it straight out of the bag. How do they scan it? They just scan the Fritos. Oh wait, that's free. Chili and cheese is free.
+
+[16:32] Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. This is a hack. Oh, you assemble in store. Wow. You assume you buy the bag of Fritos.
+
+[16:39] You then walk over to the hot dog area. You then open the bag, you put the chili in, you put the cheese in, you get a plastic fork, you walk out of the store with your bag of chili cheese Fritos. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. You can do this while staring the person in the eye, and they won't. What?
+
+[16:57] Yeah, it's a secret. Hey everyone, you're welcome. You know what I mean? It's like that's the craziest thing I've ever heard. That's nuts.
+
+[17:07] That's how I roll in a 7-Eleven. Man. Just uh just a heads up. There's a there's a caller that just joined us. We're not sure if that's uh maybe one of our fellow companion producers.
+
+[17:17] Uh hello, perhaps producer. Hey, Quinn, what's up? How you doing? I'm alive. You're like, okay.
+
+[17:26] Hello. Uh so uh I know you've been feeling uh not uh good, but do you have any food stuff? I saw you did some tortillas. You want to talk about 'em. Yeah, I know.
+
+[17:37] Again, I've been resting, but my my dad's been working like a dog. Um so yeah, we did uh full kernel to Massa mixtimalization tortilla thing. And I think it turned out, you know, pretty good for like the first real attempt. Yeah, you know what? Uh uh wait, so what were you grinding the uh masa in with?
+
+[18:03] We we had like a hand cranked Mexican style grinder. The uh we got like the corona, the corona from Colombia, the corona, yeah. Uh uh, I I I I hate those things so much. Wow. I I hate I hate them.
+
+[18:19] I hell my god, I hate them. Although, is it very old? I think the older ones were a little bit better, like uh they're sandcast, right? So, like how good the burrs are in one of those things, depends entirely on the casting, the particular casting that you get. So, you know, you can get ones that can't grind where a spit, or you can get one that like you know, has been used so much, like that you know, one person has eaten like their lifetime supply of zinc coating and and cast iron, and but yours grinds well.
+
+[18:49] So, like what was your what was the general feeling of the folk who actually had to put their arm into I mean you know it could it put several hours to grind a kilo like on and off. Oh god. Um God, how many times two two times? Two times or three times? Two or three times through.
+
+[19:07] One time. All right. Uh man, yeah. I feel sorry for your dad and your brothers who I feel sorry for. Well, no, my it didn't no today.
+
+[19:19] It was just my just my dad. Next time it's my brother. Yeah, yeah. Reminds me of that barbecue spit spinning. Yeah, yeah, Quinn's uh Google Sheet Doc people's turns are gonna change.
+
+[19:31] Oh my god. Yeah, that's that's I think why beer was invented. I'm pretty sure. You know what I mean? Beer invented to survive.
+
+[19:38] While you're turning a spit. You know what I mean? It's like it took so long to cook your meat that like the stuff was sitting there fermenting next to you. By the way, uh I'm interested in anyone in the New York area. I know there's one or two I haven't tried them yet, making mockly.
+
+[19:51] Very pro mocky. Anyone who's making mockly, which is the Korean rice wine that's not made with Koji, which by the way, if you're interested in Koji and why wouldn't you be? Please check out uh Rich She's new substack, Flavor Freaks.net. Uh but uh they use Naruk. I know I've spoken about this on air, but the interesting thing about Naruk is is it's wheat based.
+
+[20:13] So it's like cr like cracked and then wheat with flour mixed, kneaded and then molded into what looks like like uh like a hall's like cough drop, but big, and then squished underfoot and then like uh put in straw and then kept at a high humidity for a while to start growing its own form of non-cold koji molds. It's then dried out, cracked up and then mixed with the steamed rice to make all the different kinds of Korean rice. All the different kinds of Korean rice wines and beverages are made with Naruk and not with Koji. And this stuff is fantally astic. And I wanna find someone who's making it here, maybe not even traditional traditional Korean.
+
+[20:58] Like I particularly think that Americans would like the variety called champagne mockly, which is where it's bottled with, and I don't even they might do dosage, but you could the cool thing about mockily is is that you don't just make it once. Typically you'll like make it, and then often you can charge it with rice again and again and get different kinds of effects depending on the temperature and how many times you've charged it with fresh uh uh liquor. And then off you can have it totally clarified, or you can have it milky and bubbly, which is amazing. So if it's when it's milky and bubbly, it's and it's fresh, and you'll appreciate this nick alive, right? Still fresh, still alive.
+
+[21:36] It's alive. In the way that polque is alive, and I've never had real pulke, so I've I can't, I've only had it in a can after it's been killed, right? So mockley is a living thing. So I want to find someone who doesn't want to make here that doesn't want to make a dead object. In Brooklyn, they're already doing it.
+
+[21:56] I know, but I I haven't tried their stuff. I'm interested in trying, uh I'm interested in trying maybe get them on. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because I'm interested in trying like you know, people doing and the other thing is is that like there's so many different ways to do it that I don't think that they're I mean, there maybe there's wrong answers, but I don't think there's a right answer.
+
+[22:14] You know what I mean? Like, so I mean something can be overtly flawed, I guess, but you know, they they have different levels of acidity because they're wild. They're they're wild, they're literally wild and also wild. You know what I mean? Uh just quickly, I think we have another caller calling in.
+
+[22:29] I think it might be one of our fellow companions, producers. Is this Nastasia on the line? Hey. Oh, wait, it's just it's just me. Just you, just you.
+
+[22:38] Wait, so wait. So what day, what day is it now? Tuesday. Tuesday. Wait.
+
+[22:47] So it I never know, and you get mad because I've known you for 8,000 years, and I don't remember anyone's birthday. Is it your birthday? Or was it your birthday? No. My birthday, Quinn's birthday was before.
+
+[22:59] Your birthday's in April. I know it's somebody's birthday, but I don't know who's. It was Quinn's birthday three days ago. Quinn's birthday. It's your birthday's in April.
+
+[23:08] I don't know. That's when you made the puff tortillas. My brain is hosed, man. Brain is host. Anyway.
+
+[23:14] So happy belated birthday, Quinn. Well, that's messed up, dude. Yeah. All right. So back to tortillas for one second.
+
+[23:25] Here is uh here is I did some tortillas too. I've been doing flower tortillas because uh no, incorrect. That's what I used to say. Like I think that just a bad uh I think like a great corn tortilla is a work of angels, but a great flower tortilla is also, and so now that anyone can have regular access to the flour that makes God's tortilla, you know. Uh by the way, the one that people normally buy is Hayden's Mills, which is great.
+
+[24:01] It's it's you know, they they grow good stuff. Um they stone grind. It's not a hundred percent uh Sonoran white wheat. Um I believe it's not 100% whole wheat, but it might be, right? Uh I highly recommend that this is something where you grind your own.
+
+[24:19] So I would buy uh white Sonoran wheat. You can get it from Breadtopia. The farmer that they grow that grows it is um, they are uh Native Americans. And I in fact I called them and I I didn't call them, I emailed them. And I said, uh, hey, listen, um, I'm currently buying like five pound and like 20 pound units from Breadtopia.
+
+[24:42] Can I just buy like 40 or 50 pounds at a time from you directly? I'll pay the same amount, right? Can I support you as and they're like, no, it's easier for us to ship in bulk to breadtopia and you buy from them. So you're not like shafting them at all. Go to Breadtopia, get the Sonor and white.
+
+[25:01] And uh, although Bredtopia did shaft me the other day, get this. I ordered 40 pounds of Yakora wheat from them. And it came, the bag was punctured, so the entire inside of the box was filled with wheat. And the wheat itself, anytime you buy wheat, you need to look at it. So look at the first like three, like, look at like get like three quarts of it and spread it on a full-size sheet tray and look, right?
+
+[25:22] Some wheat's gonna throw off dust. Some wheats, I mean, probably won't throw off bugs because they've killed those things with like high speed, called an entilter, uh, until I can't pronounce it. Anyway, uh, but you want to look for foreign seeds, you want to look for molds, and you want to look for like weird little things. So, like, usually the things that make it through are the things that are in the shape of wheat, which makes them hard to get out. My wheat, my 40 pounds wheat, full of little clay balls in the shape of wheat.
+
+[25:48] So I had to sift through 42 pounds of wheat kernels, and every like one quart thing that I was sticking on to my sheet tray and looking at, like kernel by freaking kernel, everyone had at least one or two clay balls in it. So I was like, oh my God. This is why crazy Sylvester Graham told you to wash all of your wheat. I've just recently done a test on washing wheat and then drying it. I didn't know it's much of a difference in the bread.
+
+[26:15] So I don't think you need to worry about it as long as your wheat's relatively clean. But back to Sonoran white. When you grind Sonoran white when you're in mill, which I hope you guys eventually get a flour mill, uh, you want to first clean your burrs with rice. You want to put rice, white rice, not brown, white, because you don't want any fat at all. You want something very hard and sharp, which is what rice is.
+
+[26:34] You want to grind it, uh, not too coarse but also not too fine. And that's gonna scrape your burrs clean and in essence redress them if you do like half a cup of white rice. Uh get all the rice out, and then you want to grind it so fine that just before your burrs lodge up. Like you and you need you need to get it so that you're gonna feel the flour and it's gonna feel gritty. Take it one little snap further and it's gonna feel greasy.
+
+[26:59] And you can't do that with many wheats, but you can do it with Sonoran white, because it doesn't gum up the way a lot of other things do. You can get that kind of greasy feel. And you wanna get that so that you can get the huge puff. You want to really beat the snot out of the starch, get a lot of good damaged starch in there, and really get the brand fine, get all the particles fine. Uh, and then you can have a fantastic tortilla flour.
+
+[27:22] I did uh I did 40 tortillas on Sunday, and we had like an 85 to 90% puff rate. Now, when I puff my tortillas, I don't do a traditional Southwestern style because I'm a white guy from New York. What I do is I use the Sonoran white wheat, and I use a very tortilla similar recipe. I also don't I use olive oil, in fact, in mind and not lard because I have a lot of vegetarians coming over. Um, but I puff it chipati style.
+
+[27:50] So I take a large griddle, uh, I have a crepe maker, so it makes my life easy. And then, you know, you you get it pretty hot, and then you put it down uh until it's just blistering. So I I make the balls, I'll tell you the exact recipe, in fact. I use uh for 500 of that flour, I'll use uh 79.5% uh water, so like 397. Uh about about 5% uh oil, like 24.3 of olive oil, uh, and about 1.9% salt, 9.3 salt.
+
+[28:19] I make 40 gram balls out of it. So you need the hell out of it. Let it sit for a couple of hours, let it fully hydrate, make balls, throw those balls into flour because they're wet, right? And then roll them as thin as you can. I tried using a tortilla press.
+
+[28:32] I hated it. I hated it. Roll them out like you would roll a shapati. And then uh on the hot griddle until you start seeing little blisters on top, flip it once, boop, and then onto a handheld grate, get a chipati grate. Like onto a grate over an open flame, boom, footballs, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, footballs.
+
+[28:50] And you want to you want them to puff so that they steam themselves on the inside and they don't dry out, but they're cooked. And I'll tell you another little secret is that uh I had some left over, and usually you can't reheat chipatis made with ata. They just don't reheat well. The ones with the white set the snoring white, they do reheat well if you steam them for like 30 seconds. You want to steam them for like 30 seconds because they're so thin and like you know, they've already puffed once that just a light steam brings them back.
+
+[29:18] Not a hundred percent because they're not, they don't have the outside texture's not perfect anymore, but they're not at all effed up. So that was my that's my week, that's my weekly cooking for you guys. Yeah. Uh and one last thing I want to try that I haven't tried yet because I had to cook for someone's birthday, and they wanted like, you know, my pork chili and my veg goop and my tortillas, right? They didn't want what I wanted to make.
+
+[29:44] You want to know what I want to make? Tell you my idea. Terrible news, by the way, for lovers of meat in New York City. The Ridgewood Pork Store closed earlier this year. Oh yes.
+
+[29:53] Ridgewood pork store is no more. Yeah. Uh and I like I I thought they owned the building, but they didn't. Uh so Ridgewood Pork store, you could smell it within a two-block radius. You can smell the smoke, uh, the good smoke.
+
+[30:07] You know what I mean? And uh it was just a fantastic place, like all oak on the inside. Remember when we went there, yeah, it was great. Yeah, all like, you know, like meat hanging up on like old rails, like oh, beautiful. Um the one thing I used to be able to get there, one of the many things, uh, was whole leaf fermented cabbage.
+
+[30:27] And when I make stuffed cabbage, I like to use fermented cabbage leaves, not fresh leaves that have been blanched like a chump, right? Because you want to use like fermented cabbage leaves. And so then I was thinking, hey, what if instead of using rice, what if you did a lasagna, so not rice, lasagna and then sauerkraut pressed. So you got all the things to do, like a stuffed cabbage lasagna situation. You think that would be good?
+
+[30:54] Yeah. As long as it doesn't fall apart when you cut into it. Yeah, you gotta get the moisture management right. You gotta get it so it doesn't soup out on you. But uh, what do you think?
+
+[31:05] I think it would taste good. Cheese or no cheese? No cheese? It's not, you know, it do you like stuffed cabbage? I like stuffed cabbage.
+
+[31:18] Hmm. But I don't love it. Stuffed cabbage is not my go-to. I feel like the cabbage to meat ratio would be ugh. Well, but don't you get to choose what that cabbage to meat ratio is?
+
+[31:30] I guess everything. I think if you want the lasagna effect, it's gonna be like two or three layers at least. No, no, I'm using pasta instead of rice. There is actual pasta. Oh.
+
+[31:42] So it's pasta. And then what's the lasagna? Tomatoes, ground meat. No. No.
+
+[31:49] I believe lasagna has cheese and no sauerkraut. Right. So you remove the sauerkraut. I mean, sorry, remove the cheese and add sauerkraut. And like something like a stuffed cabbage, like in the form of lasagna with a pasta base.
+
+[32:05] I think it would be good. I don't. Why not? Why don't you think of the good? I think there's a reason we haven't seen that.
+
+[32:14] Yeah, because people in Hungary like have those cabbages and they just make it the way they want to. Because lasagna cabbage is not great. Because no one's done it. Because you go to Italy and they're not like, you know, we have eight tons of sauerkraut. You know what I mean?
+
+[32:30] Not the chakro capital of the world. I guess you can lasagna anything. I once took Thanksgiving leftovers and made lasagna with like some a layer of stuffing and then a layer of turkey, and I made like a lasagna out of Thanksgiving leftovers. And it was surprisingly great. You know what else is great?
+
+[32:49] I love that. Yeah. It's like the bajamel is the gravy. Yeah, like chil chiliquilis as lasagna is delicious. Right?
+
+[32:56] You can you can make a you could basically take the concept of chiliquilis and make it into lasagna. Verticize it. Yeah. And you know what it is? A good.
+
+[33:04] Yes, that sounds great. With an egg on it? Please. You know what I mean? I think a lot of Mexican cuisine can be lasagna-sized.
+
+[33:10] I think everything can be lasagna-sized. Although uh to be fair, the chili kill is one, you're not using pasta, you're using the the tortilla, yeah, yeah. Delicious. Yeah. Fantastic, right?
+
+[33:21] You know, it's like, you know, you're you're halfway to uh like an enchilada pie or something. You know what I mean? It's like what's that Mexican dish that I love. The uh it's almost like nachos, or it's an Indian dish, but it's like nachos and uh it has like potato and the yogurt and the chips and the little discs, the puries? No, uh it's uh well, it's just chuck.
+
+[33:41] Uh the world of chuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a nacho lasagna.
+
+[33:47] Look, it turns out that when you take a bread stuff and then you like like put things onto said bread stuff. It happens to work. The the rubber bread stuff. Hey, uh, what do you got? I also did something uh original with my master.
+
+[34:05] All right, let's I actually made massa newky. Now, how was it? It was pretty good. It was just basically two parts, massa by waist, two eggs, whole eggs, a little massa arena to tighten it up, but then we actually dispense it. Uh, you know, sort of wily style, like a uh a Parisian yerky.
+
+[34:35] Yeah, he he gets that from Jackie Peeps. I think Jackie Peeps was the first person I saw doing that out of a piping bag. You know what Wiley does? Wiley ties dental floss over the uh, that's what we do. Yeah, dental floss.
+
+[34:47] Yeah, yeah. So for those of you who don't know what we're talking about, you you tie you tie dental floss between the two handles of your pot. So you have a pot of rolling water boiling water, and you tie dental floss over the top of the pot, and then you take your bag, and you're just like but not with like you're not Irish when you're doing it. So it's like, you know what I mean? So you're like, you know what I'm saying?
+
+[35:09] Move into Montana soon. Gonna be a dental floss tycoon. Wow. Wow. Uh Nastasi, what do you have in this week's blah blah blah?
+
+[35:27] Um, nothing food related. So nothing food related at all. Come on, you ate something. I mean, uh, Jack and I go out, but I don't think we went anywhere worth mentioning, right, Jack? Did you go anywhere?
+
+[35:40] I don't without naming the place that you hated, what dish did you have that you despised? Because Jack always despises something. Uh what did I have that I despised? Or you're not sure. Well, you but the last thing I had that sucked.
+
+[35:56] I mean, like, I feel like you know, you're pretty harsh sometimes in a good way. Not bad. Oh, soggy truffle, soggy truffle fries at the Greek theater. Oh, what a nightmare. Unacceptable.
+
+[36:05] Unacceptable. What a nightmare. By the way. Truffle oil. Truffle oil, of course.
+
+[36:10] Two four dithiapentane. Well, give it give it to me again. Give it to me again. Two four dithyopentane. No.
+
+[36:18] Sounds wretched. Wretched. Uh oh my god. Don't you love when you walk into a place and all you smell is the truffle and you're like, ugh. Makes me sick.
+
+[36:29] What's the what's the white truffle oil fake? What's that one? Is that also that's that's also this synthetic chemical odorant called two for Dithiapentane to simulate the odor of a truffle when it's actually fake and it smells more like rotten feet than the delicate ephemeral quality of a fresh white truffle. Not sure what you think about truffle oil, Nick, but I'll say this. Someone once calculated that if you add it up all the truffle oil that's produced, it would be like the truffle, uh the truffles had been like, you know, 80 times the number of truffles that have ever been, you know, produced.
+
+[36:59] Yeah. Yeah, it substitutes the illusion of something for the thing itself. Yeah. Oh, speaking of uh not quite the thing itself. Have any of you guys tried the Australian, uh, the Australian black truffle, the one that it's actually is a black paragord truffle that species, whatever it was just went out of my head, but that species, but grown in Western Australia and it's off season.
+
+[37:26] Have you guys ever tried them? Is that any good? I have not. What about you, John? I have not.
+
+[37:31] No. I'm trying to figure out something we can have at the bar where I can just stare at a person and I just keep adding it, and it keeps adding to their bill the way they do for a truffle. Because like we need something in a bar where if someone comes in and they want to be an idiot with their money that you can allow them to be an idiot with their money. And truffles are fantastic for that because, you know, once you have enough truffle on your eggs or pasta, you don't need more your raviolo single, but you you don't need more, but it's not gonna really hurt it to have more. So you can just sit there and just be like, sh, sh, sh, sh.
+
+[38:11] And then you look at the person, almost always a guy, you look at them, sh, sh, and you and you make them feel like if they stop you, that they're cheap. There's gotta be You you really reach into the deep insecurities of a man when you've let it rain truffle and stare him in the eye, and you see how far you willing to reach into your pocket for this one dish. Yeah, the key, the key is to not freak them out too much. So I think the key is is you look at the truffle when you're shaving it, and then every three slices you look up with a little bit of a side. You looking for the nod?
+
+[38:49] Keep going, or like you should stop. Don't say when. Yeah. And then they're like, uh, and you're like, shh, shh, hmm. And then they have to keep going more and more because they're trying to impress whoever they're with.
+
+[39:01] I feel that way about the Parmigiano Reggiano. I've never had the courage to allow as much Parmigiano Reggiano grated onto my plate in a restaurant as I truly want. That's because you feel bad because they're not weighing it before and after and adjusting your bill accordingly. No. Um, but what I really were, you get as much as you want.
+
+[39:17] I really do require like a separate parm dish to be added as I continue eating. That's the proper way to eat certain foods. Okay, okay, quick question, question, question, question. First of all, I can't help myself when I actually have it on the table. I'll always jab a knife into the parmigiano, break off a chunk, and just eat it.
+
+[39:34] Well, I like to end the meal. They say, never leave in Italy, never leave a table without a piece of cheese in your mouth. It's the last thing you do before you end a meal is you little piece of cheese and you walk away. I see. I see.
+
+[39:46] Now, uh, what we went. All right. We just remembered as you guys give it. We went to this Italian place. Nick, you've been there too.
+
+[39:57] Dan Tana. Oh legendary establishment in LA. Uh, you know, red and white checkered tablecloth. Um is it like a musso sort of thing? Um better.
+
+[40:09] Yeah, explain it, Stas. Jack has a way better explanation being a Long Islander. Wow. What's my explanation? I don't remember.
+
+[40:19] I mean, the food's not good, but it's, you know, the best vibe you could ever ask for. Agreed 100%. The bartender just looks at you and says, Go ahead. You know? Like to fight you or I remember when I was there, they were almost disturbed that we were there.
+
+[40:41] It's kind of like an insider joint. One last thing before I get one last thing before I get to the and now I I I kind of want to go with Nastasia because she likes places that are like that. I'm gonna say something that's gonna piss you off, Nastasia. I think you would enjoy Australia. Wow.
+
+[41:00] Yeah. I would like, you know, it's just the accent. That's it. Like I I'm sure I would love it. I really think you would like it.
+
+[41:08] Like, like I only went to Sydney, but I really think you would enjoy Sydney. Yeah. So sorry about that. Yeah, now you know, put it on the list of places to like uncross off where you need to go. You know what I mean?
+
+[41:21] Like, cause uh, yeah, good place. And I'm not gonna try to convince you guys to like Vegemite because you need to come to that on your own. You know what I mean? It's certainly an acquired taste. We've got a uh Discord question for Nick.
+
+[41:37] Well, is it one of the questions that I'm about to read him or a different new question? Nope, he forgot to submit. All right, do it. All right, so this is from Andrew Cummings in Oakland, California. I recently visited Italy and stayed with a friend's family, and she recommended olive oil as a gift.
+
+[41:51] I wanted to get something that they couldn't get there, so ended up getting Sciabica's Mission Olive Oil since they say it's a California native variety. They say they harvest them very ripe and late in the season, which I find interesting. What does he think of that variety of variety of olive? Did I mess up? I think that's the name of the brand, not the olive cultivar.
+
+[42:11] Okay. But was it do you know the brand? Come on, man. Um it's like talking to my kids. Yeah, I think that that's a California brand.
+
+[42:22] However, if they're bragging about harvesting later in the season, I find that deeply alarming. All olives start their life green and ripen to a deep purplish black. And typically the best olive oils in the world are these early harvest oils where the olives are 85% lemony green. You get less oil in the fruit, but the oil tends to be more vibrant and dynamic. So uh Nick, you're talking about early harvest olive oils.
+
+[42:46] I see you brought some olive oils. While you opening the olive oils that you're gonna do, before you talk about them, let me ask you an olive oil related question in from the Patreon. So this is from Worst Salad. Uh I read an oil about I read an article about Oleo Secondo uh Veronelli, uh a method of oil production in Italy codified and evangelized by wine critic Luigi Veronelli. Uh there's a website, but it seems pretty niche.
+
+[43:08] Uh you can count the quote unquote approved producers on one hand. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts if you have any, and just as a brief thing, in case I didn't know what that what worse sales talking about. So I looked it up. And it's basically uh this person who right before they died, they were old when they did it. They they said that uh they wanted to make their own olive oil.
+
+[43:28] Uh, that is one, no chemical farming, two, quick pressing of fruit on site, three, depitting the uh uh olives before pressing, and then uh pressing only individual cultivars. Uh and then uh labeling with uh with the the cultivar, the date and where it comes from, and only packaging in glass. So, like uh that the basics according to, I forget where I scraped that, but so that's what we're talking about, Nick. All of that sounds good. The removing of the pit before extraction is a method in Italian known as dinocciolate.
+
+[43:59] And the theory is that it gets rid of some of the bitterness in the oil, though I think that's overblown, and that's why 905% of world-class producers leave the pit in, and the pit gets removed in the centrifuge that separates the solids from the water from the oil. So I don't think that step is really important to remove the pit before extraction. And you're a pro-centrifuge, correct? Procentrifuge, pro-modern milling, where in the traditional method, which is called first cold pressed, the olives are crushed with granite wheels into an olive paste, and it's stacked on what looks looks like a 100-layer lasagna known as fiscoli, and it's put in a physical hydraulic press. What comes out is about 20% oil and 40% water.
+
+[44:42] The remaining 40% are the pits, skins and pulp left over on the mats. Wait, so what's the yield? Around it depends on the cultivar and the moment of harvest, but I'd say generally 20% oil, 40% water. And the remaining 40% are the solids. And then the solids what?
+
+[44:58] Pig feed? The olive pits can be dried and crushed and used as fuel to heat home in the winter because they burn very steady and evenly. The leaves can be used to make olive leaf extract, which is high in olipine and good for the immune system. And the skins and pulp can go into animal feed. No.
+
+[45:26] Do whatever you want to do. Yeah. Because I'm sure there's a lot of oil left in it, right? Um, there's a small amount of oil left in it that you have to add heat or chemical solvents to extract the remaining amount. Right, right.
+
+[45:38] But it's a it's not much. Not enough, you're saying? No. It's not an important thing. And like that's what I would do.
+
+[45:42] They do use industrial. And some producers I know um will have two mills on premise. One for their high quality stuff and another for more industrial oil. And the and they're kept separate. So the oil and the olives from one never goes to the other, and it's a quality control thing.
+
+[46:02] I see. I see. Uh all right. So by the way, that other by the way, just to be clear, going back to the it's Shabika olive oil, not skiabata. It's Shabika.
+
+[46:13] Oh man, now you're nuking on John. Shabika olive oil, it's California oil, and they actually um are very famous family that I'm sure does good oil, though. The late harvest thing, it's like that that there's just more issues that can happen to the olive the later you harvest. It's the last crop of the year. You harvest the olives in November, even possibly into December.
+
+[46:32] So the longer they're on the tree, the more problems can arise. Weather problems, pest problems, and getting it off the tree earlier is just a very good technique. Fustiness? Does it get more fusty? Fustiness happens when the olive after the olives are picked and they sit in piles, and if they sit there too long, they undergo anaerobic fermentation.
+
+[46:50] And that gives you the defect known as fusty, which is like a cured table olive. Yeah, baby. Anyway, I know you. What's the one that you say there's intentionally fustified that's good? The one from Provence in the south of France, which is called Frute Noir, where they intentionally add the defect of fustiness by temperature controlling very green early harvest fruit for a few days to get this like perfect clean, fusty quality, which is really nice in fish or potatoes or anything where you want to add the black olive topping out flavor without the texture.
+
+[47:21] You know what oil I had fresh and I didn't enjoy it? Perilla. Perilla oil. I didn't like it. I didn't I didn't hate it.
+
+[47:28] It had a kind of like a nori taste. It wasn't from me. Cesar. Yes. Cecilia.
+
+[47:34] It's no olive. No, it's not. Uh all right. So uh why don't you tell us what you uh what you brought? And while you're doing that, uh, you have before on the show thrown shade on some of the old school first press stuff, specifically the Nunez de Prado, stuff that used to be famous back in the eighties and nineties.
+
+[47:50] Were they ever great, you think? Or is it just but they've been surpassed by modern technology or what? I think uh it's interesting in food. A lot of food doesn't taste like the way food is supposed to taste. You look at bananas, you look at strawberries, you see these things.
+
+[48:04] They look like bananas, they look like strawberries, and you taste them, and they're kind of nothing. I think like over decades, food is becoming the taste of food is becoming more abstract from the way it's supposed to taste, and we get used to it as the decades roll on, and we think it's normal. But what's interesting about olive oil is we're living in the golden age of high quality fresh olive oil. Olive oils have never in the history of 8,000 years of production been produced at this level consistently globally, and you can order it directly delivered to your door. So it's like an amazing product at the moment.
+
+[48:37] How would they order this directly to their door? You go to Grovenvine.com. I see. And we have a cooking issues promo thing that is available. All right, nice.
+
+[48:43] Now, please uh open these and pour these. We'll describe what you're pouring and nine minutes. We have nine minutes and 14 seconds, and then we get ripped off here. So, what we have, because it is September in New York City, I have gone to the Southern Hemisphere in the beginning of June to source fresh olive oil from the Southern Hemisphere, which at the moment is the freshest oil on the planet. We have two oils here from uh Chile.
+
+[49:04] One is by the producer Alonzo, and another is by the producer Monte Olivo. The Alonzo oil is made with the piqual olive, which is the name of the fruit, always has something to do with something. So Pequal comes from pico, meaning pointed, because the fruit itself has a nice point to it. And the Pequal olive hails from Spain and typically has aroma of green tomato leaf when harvested early. Let me smell.
+
+[49:28] I love green tomato leaf. So here we go. I love that smell. We used to distill that stuff because I love the smell of it so much. Back when people used to say it was poisonous, which of course, maybe I mean a little poison.
+
+[49:40] Now we work with different artists. Ooh. Um the labels the label. We work with different artists. My dear friend Susan Minot, the novelist and painter, did the art for this label.
+
+[49:52] And early harvest pequal oil when the spelled like Minot Town, like spelled like Minot North Dakota. M-I-N-O-T. Yeah. Like Minet. Yeah.
+
+[50:02] And smells like green tomato yon dress. Yeah. I got it from me. I handed him one. So you always want to put in the palm of your hand, couple with the other hand, and swirl the oil and warm it.
+
+[50:14] This is why I love you. Now you swirl it, the bottom palm warms the oil, the top palm traps the aromas. And when we taste oil, it is a time to slow down. It is a leisurely activity. Oh God.
+
+[50:27] And the action is in the glass, and the answers are inside of you. I never I never find that to be the case, Nick. All right, I'm gonna smell it now. So now we just smell. Okay.
+
+[50:41] Just smell. Early harvest, piqual, when the fruit is 85% lemony green, milled in the modern method where the olives go through a series of vacuums and centrifuges, and the fruit is never exposed to oxygen in the production process, which is a faster, cleaner, and more sanitary method of oil extraction. Because the transformation of fruit to oil is so critical that you can destroy the volatile aromas in the milling process. Every step is a chance to ruin it, isn't it? Every ch every step is an opportunity for greatness and a chance to ruin it.
+
+[51:19] What do you think, John? I think it smells lovely. You get I get you get you get the I get the green. I guess the most important the most important part of olive oil production. Would this be good on a tomato?
+
+[51:30] Should I have had this a couple of days ago with my freaking ant rubies? It would have been outstanding on tomato. The God's tomatoes, remember, are Ant Rubies German green and the German stripes, the stripes from uh Stokes Farms. You have to pick them yourself. Don't let somebody else buy your tomatoes.
+
+[51:45] Don't ever let somebody else buy your tomatoes for you. It's a very personal thing. Yeah. And then we taste it, we sip it, and aerate it in the mouth so the oil hits all parts of the mouth. And noise alert people.
+
+[52:04] Aerate it, hits all parts of the mouth cavity, then you stop, then you swallow. You may notice a peppery sensation. What causes that in the throat is oleocanthol, which is a natural antioxidant and polyphenol found in the oil, and is considered an attribute of quality. And they talk about one cough, two cough, and three cough oils in terms of intensity. It's because you're a professional.
+
+[52:30] So that is early harvest Chilean pequal. Olive traditionally hails from Spain, but is grown all over the world. Um I would eat the hell out of that. Because people love it, because it's a great, it's a great olive oil. I would eat the hell out of that.
+
+[52:41] You know what I would, you know what I would want with that? Bread. Like in other words, like it wouldn't doesn't require anything else. Very simple. Though it would be great on beans and in soups and pastas and lots of different things.
+
+[52:53] It'd be really good on bread with tomatoes and stracciatella. That would be one thing it would be good with. By the way, that's always what I want with uh good oil PS. You know what I mean? Like, all right, what do we got coming up next?
+
+[53:10] Next one. Also chile. This is a very cool label. How long is this gonna taste like this? Um because it was harvested early and because it was milled in the modern method, and because it's filtered and we've removed the mac micro and macroscopic olive sediment in it, it's gonna have a longer shelf life, and if kept in a cool dark environment, it's good for about a year.
+
+[53:31] No. For sure. At this level, I want to tell people something also. Like every sip of it I take is growing in intensity because I I find that with the oils there's a persistence in some of the flavors. So like every sip of it is more intense in a good way than the one prior to it.
+
+[53:51] It's cumulative. Yeah. Yeah. Um but yeah, unopened in a cool dark environment, that's gonna be good for for a while and still have that green tomato leaf aroma. Because the fruit itself was so healthy in the beginning.
+
+[54:02] It's the most important important part of olive oil production is everything. All right, explain this one because I have some more questions for you there. So this is from Chile from a different producer. This artist is Marissa Rigante, who's an incredible painter who did the label for this. And this is made with a Coratina olive, which traditionally hails from Puglio, which is the heel of the boot in Italy, but is grown all over the world due to its high antioxidant levels.
+
+[54:24] And you like that olive, right? Love the Coratina olive. Now, this one is more grassy, bitter, and peppery, and would be excellent on a grilled seasoned steak or a soup or anything where you really want the oil to cut through and brighten up the dish. That's another good use for olive oil. Drizzle it all over your magic pork.
+
+[54:41] Very good. You gotta go get your magic pork, and then you cook the magic pork. The magic pork has fat injected into it already, but oil is always oil, is always welcome. The Lordly Lipid. Oil, I have to say is the oil, salt, and pepper on a ribeye steak is where you wish to be.
+
+[55:02] And that sea salt flake at the end, right before you're about to eat it, and and not a drizzle, but a dose. You need to dose your meat and olive. I think we're on the same page here. And you the steak needs to be, and I'm a low-temp guy, but the steak needs to be warm enough that it still has some warmth. That's why like I'm a big believer in sizzle platters.
+
+[55:23] But you don't want you wanna mound it up on the sizzle platter, because I don't really I know you don't care as much, but I don't want the I don't want the oil to hit, I don't want the oil to get too hot. I want to care. Yeah. That oil should be raw and it should be fresh, vibrant, and dynamic and cut. Oh, that is very grassy.
+
+[55:41] It's ridiculous. Grassy, bitter, peppery. Typical of Coratina olive. Like hexanal. Go for the hex.
+
+[55:48] Go for the hex. All right, I'm gonna taste this now because I have questions for you. We're gonna run out of top. While I'm tasting this, actually, why don't you answer this? Jordan, we talked last week because we had Leahy on.
+
+[55:57] Continuing off from the discussion last episode, a preference for butter or olive oil for dipping bread at restaurants. Does Captain Oily always prefer olive oil over butter? What about low-quality olive oil versus high quality butter? 100% high quality butter over low-quality olive oil, especially in a restaurant. You want it to taste great, and high quality butter.
+
+[56:14] It is amazing, and low quality olive oil tastes like gasoline. Oh my god, the mouthfeel on this is ridiculous. Why is the mouthfeel so ridiculous on this? Yeah, still alive. And it's the sharpest oil I've ever maybe tasted.
+
+[56:25] This stuff's crazy. Classic core ticket is crazy. It it it it it it has a higher viscosity than I was expecting. It's crazy. Uh Maddie wants to know.
+
+[56:38] Are you anti-infused olive oil or are the things you like? If someone wanted to use uh extraversion olive oil for something like a chili oil for pizza, how would you recommend infusing room temp, low temp, how long, etc. Thanks. I would get excellent quality Calabrian chilies and I would have them dry. I would have dried chilies and I would just chop them up and put them in olive oil.
+
+[56:57] It'd be incredible. Keep it room temp, delicious. Uh generally you would never take a world-class oil and infuse it. You typically, when you buy oils that are infused, they're not made with the best olives. But infused oils are wonderful.
+
+[57:10] It's like a gateway drug. Yeah. Uh Phil Stan wants to know how to add Xanthan to uh his uh frozen margaritas. Choose one of the liquids that isn't the uh booze, like add the xanthan to the pineapple puree. All right, but you don't need to add that much.
+
+[57:23] Like uh I I I uh only use one gram for like 1400 like uh mils of uh of frozen stuff. You need only a little bit. The problem is when people pre hydrate their Xanthan in their mixes, uh they add too much and it hydrates all the way and it gets snotty. Uh I'm gonna talk to Nick about fried food next time because I want to make sure we get all the grease and talk about this olive oil a little bit more. We have 16 seconds for you to talk.
+
+[57:46] And Alexander, I'm gonna figure out a use for your vanilla beans. Don't make vanilla extract. I'm gonna figure it out, but like talk about this oil on the way out and where they can get it one more time, Nick. You can get this oil or the last oil at Groveandvine.com. And if you're a member, there's a little bit of a cooking issues promo.
+
+[58:02] This is nuts, super fresh. It's nuts. How long is this one gonna stay this fresh? This fresh. A year.
+
+[58:08] Oh come on. They're really good quality oils, and they have a nice shelf life because they're filtered. All right. Thanks for coming on, cooking issues. Chin ching.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, New Stan Studios. Just you and me today in the studio, Joe, Joe Hazen, rocking the panels. Hey, hey, hey, yeah, it's quiet in here. Yeah, I know.
+
+[0:25] We went from being like full house like twice in a row to being uh, you know. Empty. Empty. Well, you know, uh, John, who's normally with us, uh, John and getting ready for his friends and family at Temperance, the relaunch of the new Temperance menu. No longer Temperance Wine Bar, just Temperance and his Belgian themed menu, so he could not be here today, unfortunately.
+
+[0:49] Quinn, I think might call in a little bit later, not sure, but we are fortunate enough, although he's not gonna say too much, because of his scratchy, scratchy, scratchy throat. Making America sick again, Jackie Molecules. How you doing? I've been better. You can't take somebody's joke, Dave.
+
+[1:09] I uh it's Jack said it, and I'm saying it for him because he can't talk right now. That's Jack's quote, man. Geez. And by the way, I believe there's an entire industry based on taking people's jokes. I believe it's called comedy.
+
+[1:22] Anyway, Nastasia the Hammer Lopez, how you doing? Also in Los Angeles. How you doing? Fine. You want to get for the shit say oh, you want to get stuff out of the way?
+
+[1:32] Uh, well, there's a lot of stuff to get out of the way. Which particular. How about this one, folks? Guess what? Guess what?
+
+[1:39] There is a brand new shipment of Sears. Uh, sorry, Spinsall 2.0. That's right. Brand new fresh shipment of Spinsall 2.0 sitting on a dock somewhere near the city of Boston. But guess what's going on with dock workers?
+
+[1:53] There's a strike, strike, strike, there's a strike, strike, strike. So ain't nothing moving anywhere. And you know what? Even though it's already on the shore, the longshoremen have already taken the box off of the boat and put it on the shore. Guess who doesn't cross a picket line?
+
+[2:08] The ta-ta-ta-t-t-t-t-teamsters! And so we cannot get a truck to go get those spinzalls, even though everyone swore on a stack of Bibles that those things would be off the wharf by the 21st of September. Guess who got hosed? Not just Booker and Dax, although we got hosed pretty badly. And Modernus Pantry, anyone who's ordered a spinzall, but it's gonna be available as soon as the strike is over.
+
+[2:29] Is that accurate, Saz or what? Yeah. You know, I'm happy that all those big companies aren't gonna get their stuff by Black Friday, but they should let the small companies grab their stuff. There's no way to know. It's just a big pile of boxes.
+
+[2:43] Oh, I know. Remember, the system is built to screw the small person. What's up? We got someone on the phone. Is it is it our favorite?
+
+[2:50] Is it our favorite calling in? Am I your favorite? You are a favorite. You're not who I thought. I thought you were gonna call in later in the show.
+
+[2:57] We got Quinn from the upper left. What's up? How you feeling? Uh I'm actually. I'm actually feeling better.
+
+[3:07] Oh, that's great. Good to hear. Hey, which one of you, by the way, is uh standing in traffic right now trying to get hit? Is it Nastasia because of how bad you feel? Oh, that's that's me.
+
+[3:17] Oh, Ariel, Harry Elsa. Ariel got on the phone. Great friend of the show. Ariel, I had you call in. So, okay, so we're gonna get right to you because I know you can't stay for the whole, by the way, Ariel Johnson, author of A Flavorama.
+
+[3:32] What's the slug line on that one again? Oh, a uh a guide to unlocking the art and science of flavor. A guide to unlocking the art of science. Wait, no. A guy say it again.
+
+[3:44] A guide to unlocking the art and science of flavor. There you go. There you go. Flavorama. Anyway, you should go buy it.
+
+[3:52] I uh when last when I was in uh freaking Korea, I found a copy of it in a bookstore in Seoul and sent Ariel a picture of it in Korea. It's pretty sweet. Pretty sweet. It was very cool. It's actually soon being uh translated to be sold in Korea.
+
+[4:06] Wait, oh really? That's nice. I'm not in Korean yet. Although I have an offer for someone to translate it, but I'm thinking I want to wait until maybe I finish the redo before we do any more new translations. You know what I mean?
+
+[4:16] Sounds sounds wise. Yeah, good choice. Have you been over to Korea? Um I I I haven't been since before the pandemic, but uh yeah, no, I I love Korean football. Yeah, yeah, I only went there once.
+
+[4:28] Good place, good times. Uh all right, so listen, I'm gonna well, so we're gonna not do things normal. We're not gonna shoot the breeze because I have Ariel here. I have specific questions. Although Ariel, since I don't have you forever, anything over the past week you've done in the food and or beverage space that you think is interesting for us to hear about?
+
+[4:45] Oh, well, uh last week actually, I was visiting Tabasco. It's uh A Avery Island, Louisiana, which is completely amazing. Do they have do they have an interactive uh do they have an interactive uh exhibit where you get to go in and bribe judges? I I didn't see that, but uh I uh I I I I did get kind of a behind the scenes look, which is very cool. How much does it stink like vinegar on that island?
+
+[5:14] Um only only in like a couple of warehouses. It's actually not that bad. It's a pretty pleasant smell. I mean, I like fermentation smells, two way point. Yeah.
+
+[5:23] Uh so yeah. By the way, just uh to give some context to what I said before, I am a fan of Tabasco and uh I I the the product, uh, but they back in the day they were famously corrupt and paid off a bunch of I mean, as if it's difficult to pay off uh judicial people in Louisiana, they paid off a bunch of people so that they can enforce a copyright claim on the word Tabasco, which as we all know is a pepper. It would be like saying, No, I have the trademark for automobile. You know what I mean? It just doesn't make sense.
+
+[5:58] But whatever. I digress. At least that was the story back in the early 90s as people used to tell it. Am I wrong about this, Ariel? Do you have different information on that?
+
+[6:06] Oh, I have no information on that. So uh uh CBD. But my wife, who spent uh, you know, her junior high years, so you know, m uh some of elementary school and junior high, just outside of uh New Orleans and Nackadish, uh growing up, says that everybody loves the Avery Island tour for the Tabasco people. It's like something everybody does, and it's awesome. So I would like to go on it someday, although I've probably just alienated anyone there if they've ever heard this.
+
+[6:32] So yeah. Stas is like, who cares? I'm a Cholula girl anyway, right? I mean, come on. Yeah.
+
+[6:44] Yeah. Yeah. Uh all right. So uh so you also recommend going on the tour, Ariel? Oh, yeah, no, it was it was amazing.
+
+[6:53] How far away is it from New Orleans? I uh a few hours' drive. I live into Lafayette, so I have no firsthand experience getting there from New Orleans. Do you know I've never been anywhere in Louisiana except for New Orleans? I would like to go to Nacadish and I would love to go to Lake Charles because I cause I like Zydeco.
+
+[7:14] Anyway. Uh on to the food-related questions. So, first of all, we had a question on do you enjoy the conversation that get that takes place around the word fermentation as it's loosely applied to things that may or may not be fermented in the way that you think of them. Like, for instance, like do you like to think of fermentation as the entire realm of things, including just like enzymatic-based things, or do you like only when it refers to fundamentally lactofermented and or yeast fermented thing? What's your feeling on this on the loose use of the word fermentation?
+
+[7:47] Um, I mean, I think uh gener I generally use it to mean things tr transforming ingredients with microbes. Um so, you know, technically, technically acetic fermentation to make vinegar is not fermentation, uh, because it is an aerobic process, and by the strict biochemical definition, fermentation is an anaerobic process. Um I think once you get outside the realm of uh of microorganisms, you're getting into like uh definitely fermentation sort of adjacent techniques. Things look like a similar approach to them, but um I don't call them fermentation because there's no like microbial transformation. Right.
+
+[8:27] But also you don't care that much is what you're saying. Uh it's not it's not the the biggest thing that keeps me up at night. Right. But my issue is okay. So then the other problem I have is this, right?
+
+[8:38] There's uh there's all these people who are like, but there's some microbial, so there's a lot of like multimodal like long-term food changes where there is some fermentation, but the majority of it might be enzymatic breakdown due to enzymes already present in the food, yada yada yada, right? So there's a lot of non-clear lines. There's a lot of gray area that people like to yap about. But I I mean, don't you think it's better to people to think about what primarily is going on so that they can st they can put things in the right buckets. Right?
+
+[9:09] So that they can think about things in the right buckets. I I haven't actually seen that movie. Oh, that's a mistake on your part. It's a decent movie. But that's cool.
+
+[9:56] Um I'll I'll add it, I'll add it to my cue. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh so with that in mind, so that huge preamble is because we're going to talk about Uma Boshi. And I'll also preface it because I don't know how often you read the umiboshi literature, but I I just looked up today on the way over here that there was a study that there's a uh huge difference in microbial activity uh between about nine and ten percent salt and like fifteen and twenty percent salt. Like so the two regimes in which different people do different styles of uh umibush ume, you know, um, uh salt preserved umy fruit.
+
+[10:32] And the study, I'm just gonna tell you this, found that uh at the lower salt regime, uh, that bacteria grew a little bit and then declined a little bit, but you know, basically stayed kind of where they were in the in the 10 to the fourth uh you know column forming uh bacteria per gram or whatever it is, you know, in that range, uh 10 to the fourth, 10 to the fifth. Whereas in the higher range, they drop like a stone down to like, you know, 30 bacteria. So just that as a preamble to uh this question that I'm gonna read and then let you answer. Uh the standard method for making um this is from Nick. The standard method for making umiboshi or any fruit bochi is to pack the fruit with uh 20% salt by weight.
+
+[11:14] This is Nick's words not mine's this seems to be the traditional Japanese method but it's also the method I followed after I saw Rich She's post uh on the I uh our cookquest uh com blog and by the way if you're interested in uh things like this you should really join Rich She's new Stubstack flavor dash freaks dot net that's flavor dash freaks dot net um the method works great and produces a great result my question is what is going on here fermentation wise the product doesn't taste like a lactofermented product it's much more tart. I've heard about high citric acid content in traditional umiboshi but that's all just concentrated from the original citric acid in the unripe fruit or is there actual citric acid production as fermentation byproduct shouldn't 20% kill most lactobacilli. Is there some other fermentation pathway producing citric acid rather compounds and does the high salt encourage these or other halophile bacteria over lactobacilli. There you go well okay you've you've brought up and this is a tangent but I know how much you love tangents one thing that is a pet peeve of mine which is that people say lactobacilli or lactobacillus when they mean lactic acid bacteria. And there are many other genera besides lactobacillus uh in lactic acid bacteria so uh that that that is something I believe important.
+
+[12:28] Do you like what's your favorite one? It's not that is it leuconostoc one? Is it their one, right? Lucanostoc mesenterioides. Oh that's such a good word.
+
+[12:37] Can you say that one more time? I'm probably mispronouncing it. Lucanosac mesenturioides. I love it. There's like pet Petiococcus, the whole a whole genus uh there.
+
+[12:46] Don't like that word. Don't like that word. Lactobacillaceae, but that's different from lactobacillus. And I know it's like confusing, but uh I do think it's important. Hey man, we all gotta have we all gotta have our we all gotta have our uh our twigs to whittle on, right?
+
+[13:02] Right, right. Yeah. Um but yeah there there are um there are uh halo tolerant lactic acid bacteria. I think uh tetragenococcus is one genus of of them. Um so yeah I wouldn't I wouldn't go by sourness level or tartness to try to to try to guess whether it's citric acid or lactic acid because lactic acid can actually be quite tart and um there are uh citric acid isn't actually microbially stable.
+
+[13:32] Uh so there are lactic acid bacteria that can ferment citric acid into lactic acid. Um but uh yeah I I mean there there are also like different salt levels of umiboshi um like in the grocery store in in Japan you can you can buy uh different like labels salt levels um which go below twenty I would guess twenty percent is not a lot of bacterial hooha's happening there at all. Well I don't know I mean like soy sauce fermentations are often at around 20% salt, and you get plenty of like tetragenococcus as well as um salt tolerant yeasts like zygosaccharomycidus rucii which uh contributes some of the like uh caramel flavor to the soy so but it in umiboshi in particular, aren't they also said to be antimicrobial because of like the crazy polyphenols and stuff they have in them? And plums? Yeah.
+
+[14:26] I've read like all these studies are like the uh like the like antimicrobial, like phenolic garbage in um. If you read like I'm not probably could be garbage. I don't know. Could be garbage. I don't know.
+
+[14:38] I mean, well, like lots of strings are antimicrobial, but like antimicrobial to whom? Right. But I mean, in a way that like, you know, Rowan fruit is like full of like preservatives, you know, it's natural preserv. I don't know. I don't know.
+
+[14:51] Not an expert. I don't know. Just asking. No, no, valid question. Um, no, I mean, I would uh, you know, obviously people who've actually measured the bacterial species on these things know better than I do, but um uh I wouldn't like rule out some some some very halo tolerant uh uh strains getting some action because there are very halo tolerant strains of uh lactic acid bacteria.
+
+[15:16] And I wonder whether how like it makes a difference like how much liquid is present, right? Or do you think it doesn't in terms of this? Do you think there's enough liquid present? It's not just salt percentage, it's also like water water activity. Um so you know if you're adding 20% salt by weight of the plums, how much of that weight is water and how much is not water, you know?
+
+[15:38] Yeah. So you get actually at twenty twenty percent salt because different water activities depending on like the composition of the fruit. I also read that uh brine fermented versus uh dry dry-ish fermented umade, the citric acid content difference might be due to the fact that citric acid is just leached into the brine. Yeah, definitely, definitely possible. Um a lot of them are I mean, you know, there's a lot of different techniques in terms of like draining off the brine or reducing it or using it as a makeu or adding it back in.
+
+[16:09] Putting it into cocktails, that's what I like that's what I do with it. It's delicious. Yeah, yeah. Do you get bent when people call that vinegar? Um, I mean, I think it's called um in Japan.
+
+[16:23] So, like, you know, uh and sou means vinegar. So um, I don't know. It's uh like it's like one one one of these things where it's like uh uh it's communication is about getting a point across. So like if you understand what I'm talking about, then be communicated. Except for calling it vinegar implies a certain volatile acidity that's not present.
+
+[16:43] So it might give someone the wrong impression if they're actually thinking about what vinegar does. This is true, yeah. And it's um, you know, generally saltier than typical vinegar. Although they're all like salty seasoned vinegars that you can get. Mm-hmm.
+
+[16:57] Yeah. Uh all right, okay. Now, uh I have a couple of oil-related questions, one of which is about um the kind of NOMA, and you were called out specifically, which is why in addition to the umay, I was gonna call you in here. Davis writes in, uh I've been working on fantastic. Yeah, I've been working on infusing olive oil with uh wood, like cedar at the moment.
+
+[17:21] And uh well, the various cedars. There's various cedars, Davis. And oak moss, and would love to use some more delicate finishing oils while maintaining their flavor. Noma slash Ariel's wood oil recipe calls for a six to eight hour infusion at 175 degrees Fahrenheit, which killed some of the lighter notes. When working on recipes that benefit from heat, what guidelines should I follow to help maintain oil quality quality?
+
+[17:42] Uh, can I reduce the temperature? Would an oxygen free vessel help? Should I revert to sonication? I'm gonna throw in a separate one that's not mentioned here. What about doing a small amount of neutral to kind of kick off the access, uh uh kick off the reaction and then like a longer steep in uh at lower temperature?
+
+[18:00] Yeah, I mean if if you're talking about extraction, then um you know, things that we increase temperature for, like temperature it's really like a matrix between like temperature, surface area, and time. Uh if we're just talking about the like kinetics of from of um of extraction, so how long it takes uh to to extract things. So, yeah, no, if you if you don't want to heat up to 175, you can uh definitely do it at a cooler temperature. I mean, I think the rule of thumb generally for chemistry is that for every like 10 degrees Celsius, you change um the reaction rates, although you're not really doing the reaction, but let's use that as a as a as a rule of thumb, go like up or down by a factor of two. So if you reduce the temperature 10 degrees Celsius, it will take roughly twice as long.
+
+[18:48] Right. I mean the question though is is that is there is there so for things that have a steady reaction rate, yeah. Or like for like diffusion, yeah. Or like things that are catalyzed, yeah. But like what about things where there's like a very sharp like activation energy for it to happen and you need to kind of get over that hump?
+
+[19:04] You know what I mean? Then it could be like orders of magnitude different. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um what I mean is that if you're in the like active range of of the uh of the reaction.
+
+[19:15] Um but then things like you know, the the Meyer reaction we like to talk about is only happening above, you know, above the boiling point of water. But um, you know, if you've ever uh fermented fermented meto in a warm room or um in some cases left white wine uh around for too long, then you will definitely find that the myother reaction happens when certain things brown over a course of like weeks or months of minutes or hours. You've also then made two mistakes if you've left it around too long, right? Not just the myard. Anyway.
+
+[19:43] Um Exactly. But what do you think about the idea of like trying to like kickstart the reaction if there is some sort of reaction slash precursor garbage or getting the infusion kicked off at a higher temperature? Because there's also I know in a lot of vegetable based situations, you have to do a certain amount of like rupturing and or damage to the substrate before you get decent kind of extraction or change of the molecules in there. Do you think there's any of that in the wood, or is the wood you think just wood and you're just literally doing a tea steep? Yeah, no, I think I think uh thinking about it more as tea than as um something something where you're getting a lot of like chemical changes is uh gonna be the most fruitful approach.
+
+[20:24] What do you think about like sanding it, turning it into a sawdust? Yeah, yeah. I mean it's gonna be hard to filter, but definitely um uh making the particle sizes smaller and also like moving the the whole mixture as you are infusing is both going to speed up the um the rate at which like oil molecules and flavor molecules diffuse around each other. And have you ever looked at the what what was like what is the general ratio of the of the solids to the oil? Because again if you start with the neutral oil at the usual temperature.
+
+[21:05] Could you just like jack up the ratio of solids and then blend after um uh yeah, I don't think it's gonna make as much of a difference uh starting starting small and then adding more. If anything, just following a uh like traditional perfumery extraction approach. You're you're basically doing encourage uh which is um well has the word flour and it's typically uh you'd see it in a place like Gross and France with like you want to rise pork lard or you know more modern solvents. Um keeping flour petals uh keeping flour pudding in contact with the fat. In that case um you actually uh like change out the flour petals to the same fat.
+
+[21:52] So they'll like start infusing uh with a certain amount of amount of uh you know oleogenous material um and flour puddles and then when the flour puddles have you know spent spent their aroma would pick them out and then put fresh batch in. So the um you know any amount of oil that you start with can kind of take more flavor generally than uh uh than like an equal mass of aromatic materials has to offer. I had a related question uh while the uh sirens passing you by uh is uh I was wondering if you could do like how effective a reverse like a like a liquor wash would be where you make an extremely strong decoction of wood in a vacuum bag for a long period of time into very high proof ethanol and then stir it with oil to flip the flavor back into the oil. Yeah no definitely. Um most of these things are more soluble in oil than they are in alcohol.
+
+[22:53] Um I guess the reason why you do a fat wash first and then alcohol is to kind of like filter out any uh uh you know like tannins and things like that. Um if you don't want those like astringent flavors, but if you're ending up in oil anyway, uh it shouldn't shouldn't make too much of a difference. Yeah. I was thinking you could even probably like literally evaporate off the high proof. You know what I mean?
+
+[23:15] And like essentially concentrate it. You know what I'm saying? So uh you you get my point. So it's like you can almost like concentrate it beyond its saturation point into the oil off of high proof ethanol as long as you're as long as you're oil, you'd have to agitate it because the oil's gonna I believe float on top of the ethanol. I believe oil is lighter still than ethanol is, so it might be difficult to actually get it to evaporate unless you did some gentle agitation, but I don't know.
+
+[23:44] I was think about it. You know what I mean? Uh yeah, I mean well also the thing is if if you get like a very pure alcohol, uh so like not, you know, in the range of vodka and the range of everclear, um, and then like mix with plant material and then distill under vacuum, um, you're not in the realm of like typical liquor distillation where like the separation is mostly being driven by like the repulsion between water molecules and aroma compounds. Um if you are in a like almost entirely alcohol system, what you'll do is evaporate out the alcohol and then concentrate the like flavor molecules and waxes into like a thick sort of butter substance. And then add the oil.
+
+[24:27] Yeah, yeah, dissolve it in however much oil you want. It'll be so concentrated it'll be like disgusting to eat. Yeah, baby. Yeah. And uh the uh sell it.
+
+[24:36] Uh the last thing uh is that uh what do you think? Have you done any research on what the actual temperature is where the uh aroma of things like olive oil start to degrade or change? Um I think like forty to fifty Celsius. Uh, but I would have to I I I've actually like yeah, ran that and on the G CNF uh years and years ago, but I'd have to look it up to film. It's low as hell.
+
+[25:04] That's low as hell. That uh let me translate that. It's very low. Yeah. Very low.
+
+[25:08] Yeah, okay. Uh well, to translate for people, that's real low. That's low. That's low. That's around the temperature that midnight oil says the Western Desert lives and breeds at.
+
+[25:18] Okay? You know what I mean? The time has come. Anyway, uh, so uh Davis also wants to know about experimenting about using vitamin oil to increase the shelf life of uh citrus uh extracts and oil. What do you think about adding like uh preserving oil?
+
+[25:35] Any good ideas on preserving oil? Um really the basic things are like keep it away from oxygen and keep it away from light. Um doping it with E is uh with uh Right, like vit vitamin E or vitamin C or something like that? Yeah, well I mean the E is gonna mean the E is the most fat soluble of them, right? Like that's the Right, yeah.
+
+[25:55] Yeah, I mean that's what plants do, you know. Yeah, that's what plants do. Yeah. One more oil. Uh so uh I don't we're supposed to deal with this when uh Captain Greasy was on last week, but uh uh do you have any uh advice other than what we do for infusing uh chili oil into fancy chili into fancy oil so that you've maintained the aroma?
+
+[26:17] Nastasia and I used to just blend a a buttload of it with uh, you know, at low at low, you know, without heating it at all, just use a crap ton of it and then spin it out in a centrifuge. But I know most people heat it. Do you have any other other advice other than those two techniques? Uh besides centrifuging and heating it up really high? Yeah.
+
+[26:41] Well, I mean, what do you like? What are the flavor differences that you find when you do those two? Uh well, I mean, we just use nice, we Nastasi and I used to use like really nice oil, and then it would still taste like really nice oil, just also like the chili peppers that we used. You know what I mean? Because it wasn't heated at all.
+
+[26:58] I mean, the you want to do minimal blending. If I was gonna do it again today, I would nitro freeze, I would nitro freeze the the, you know, I would pulverize the peppers to a powder, right? Before I started. You know, like even finer than like, you know, go chew powder or finer than like the Urpha Bieber stuff that you get, like powder. Then put it into the oil, and it, you know, it would infuse relatively quickly.
+
+[27:25] I think even if you didn't suck a vacuum on it, it would infuse relatively quickly. You might hit it with a blender for a little while. I know some olive oils are damaged by blending, especially when you're making emulsions and whipping oxygen into them. But uh, and then we would just spin it, spin it out and it tasted fresh. Remember how fresh that stuff tastes, Sas?
+
+[27:44] Yeah, yeah. It was real good. Yeah, I mean, I think I think with like a really high surface area, you might not even need to uh pull a vacuum on it as much. Um, you know, since like when you're pulling a vacuum, you're kind of like trying to force it into solid tissue and then out, or you know, boys in the solid tissue and out. And if it's like finely pulverized, then um uh you know, if there's much more surface area to save it.
+
+[28:09] Yeah. I mean, like if I was gonna do it, I would probably suck a vacuum on a little bit of it just to wet it, right? Because the issue is in like a lot of powder, there's a lot of like just trapped air on the surface of everything, and the oil has to make it past that trapped air to get to the pepper. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[28:27] And and in that case, just to like overcoming the kind of thermodynamics of wetting, yeah, it definitely makes sense to pull a vacuum. I mean, uh it might make sense to like heat briefly to like 60 Celsius just to deactivate any like enzymatic activity. Um, but I don't I don't necessarily think going far beyond that would add much to the case. So what about the idea then of the going back to what I said before is like taking a tiny amount of neutral oil just to wet the stuff and then you could heat it to do whatever you were saying, and then putting your good oil into it. The vast majority of it being the good oil.
+
+[29:01] Yeah, I mean I guess so two two things are happening when you heat up oil um in terms of degrading the flavor. The f one thing is that you are evaporating away the nice smells. Um the other thing is you're actually degrading the fat into nasty smelling molecules. So with neutral oil, you avoid evaporating away smells because there aren't any to begin with, but like there is no avoiding um uh the like depiction of the of the oil can see. Right, but I mean that's not gonna be tasty efficient smelling compound.
+
+[29:31] And that's not gonna be a giant issue at like lower temperatures, right? Like reasonable temperatures, like in a bag. I mean, what is reasonable mean to you? Well, in a bag, not like on a stovetop. Like below the boiling point of water.
+
+[29:50] Yeah, but you can get thermal oxidation below the boiling point of water. Like what? I mean, maybe, maybe maybe if you use a like completely saturated fat, which is much less likely to degrade into uh uh like nasty aldehydes. My next band, nasty aldehydes. So what do you think?
+
+[30:11] Coverance mother? I can I can sorry, I can stay on, I just have to uh get in a taxi. So uh give me five minutes. Alright, cool. All right, awesome.
+
+[30:18] So uh we'll we'll go to other people's uh you know blah blahs of the week and see what's it what do you what do you what do uh uh Jack, are you up to talking at all or Quinn? You up to talking, Stas? What do you guys got for this week? I can talk. Alright, what do you got?
+
+[30:32] Uh I've been making some gelatos still, but I haven't tasted all of them. One of them that I did taste that was really nice is we uh my family picked some fresh hazelnuts. But some of them are still like green. So we did a green hazelnut gelato. It's pretty good.
+
+[30:55] What is an unripe hazelnut taste like? Is it like milk? Is it milky? It's almost like a water chestnut. Um you let's lost you just lost uh so many people hate water chestnuts.
+
+[31:07] Here's a list. My wife hates them, somebody else in my family hates them, and I think one of us hates them, but I don't know who it is. I like them. Like when you actually eat one. The texture's like that, but they do have that like slightly milky, astringent, you know, hazelnut flavor.
+
+[31:27] It's a little different. Hmm. And how much of that translates to being blended and turned into a frozen dessert? Really well, actually. What do you say?
+
+[31:38] Like it definitely but it it does it definitely doesn't taste like regular hazelnut. You know, McGee's McGee's immature pistachios have that mango hit. His fancy Turkish immature pistachios. Those are delicious. Remember those, Nastasia?
+
+[31:59] Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Those are good. Those are good.
+
+[32:03] I actually ran those on the GCMS for him. Um and they're full of uh delicious aldehydes. Yeah. Sorry, not aldehydes, turpinoids. And it's uh and it's because they're so you you you you think it's random or is it because they're all anacardasy like related thingamajigs?
+
+[32:18] Um I mean my guess is because they are related. Um, but uh yeah, no, like California pistachias uh were like had had much less less of this like herbaceous uh fruity family of molecules and a lot more just like pyrazines, which tastes uh nutty. Yeah. Yeah. Once again.
+
+[32:40] You know, could they grow the other ones in California? It's just the varieties that we grow to be kind of like, you know, industrial juggernauts don't have it, or do you think it's an actual terroir phenomenon? Um I would I would imagine it's more to do with variety and with handling than with like terroir on the same variety. Yeah, like could we grow like the like an almond that was high in oil content? Could we grow like a really awesome like like like high fat almond if we wanted to?
+
+[33:13] Probably. I mean I think maybe there's just not an industrial market for it, which is why they don't. Oh, they're like, what do they get almond oil from? I don't know. I don't know.
+
+[33:23] I don't know. Well, I guess they use the rest for almond flour. I mean uh it's probably a no-ways situation, right? But I mean, like, and I'm sure the vast majority of people who are buying almonds want a relatively quote unquote dry, i.e., non-oily almond, right? Yeah, I mean, the if you ever had like really old almonds that have completely oxidized uh I have, and at that point I would tend to agree.
+
+[33:48] Yeah. Are you throwing serious shea and you're saying the average American is eating rancid nuts and therefore the f the l least amount of oil in the nut is the best because it's gonna taste the least rancid. Is that what is that what you guys said? My particular sense memory is of getting like uh being traveling in an airport and getting a container of instant oatmeal that had like, oh, almond sliced almond topping and it tasting like paint and ruining my day. So um I don't know about most, but uh definitely I mean, you know, it might kind of be like o olive oil ten years ago, where uh uh most most Americans like something that was like slightly oxidized and slightly fermented.
+
+[34:30] That was what was available. How depressing is it when you don't cook with nuts all the time and you have that bag of nuts excuse me, and you haven't re-vacuum sealed it, and it's sitting in your kitchen, you opened it once, and you're gonna make another dish and you're like, Oh, it's it's fine. It's gonna be fine. So you don't buy a new bag of nuts because you have that old bag of nuts and nuts aren't cheap, and then you open it, you're like, Oh it smells like paint. And d people don't put it in the food.
+
+[34:55] Don't. It's gonna ruin it. Don't do it. Don't and the worst part is I always feel like I should have known better, but I didn't. Yeah.
+
+[35:02] Yeah. Yeah. When you open a new bag of nuts and it smells rancid, take it right back to the store and make them smell it and get get your money back. Even though I would never do that. I think you should do that.
+
+[35:13] I will never do it. I will just suck it up and grumble. But I think you should get your money back. But rancid nuts, I think like everyone when they're a kid, their parent should like be like, kid, this is what rancid nuts smell like. Don't do this.
+
+[35:29] You know what I mean? And then that's it. Because you can lock that aroma into your head like that. You know what I mean? Oh yeah.
+
+[35:36] I mean, I I guess that would assume that most adults can pinpoint what rancidity uh smells like. Which I don't think is that's no. I mean, if only because people use the word rancid to mean like rotten when rancid is a completely like chemical oxidative process. Yeah. Hey, you know what's funny is like certain nuts that I think tend to uh go rancid pretty quickly, like walnuts, like at least in my house.
+
+[35:58] Uh the sometimes they like right before they go like like rancid bad, there's like a fruity rancidity that kind of like is like, oh, do I like it or not? And then I'm like, no, and I throw it away. What is that? I'm I'm not sure. I mean, there are okay, so like rancidity uh is coming from fat molecules getting uh so triglycerides getting getting broken up either by oxygen free radicals from ultraviolet light or like temperature.
+
+[36:30] Um, and uh pop popping off the glycerol head of the triglyceride molecules when you get a you know a fatty acid, then the like oxidative process is converting that into a molecule called an aldehyde, which has a long tail like a fatty acid with a slightly different head. Um, so like aldehydes can vary a lot in in what they taste like. Generally, the um uh like nine carbon aldehydes, I feel like are the most like oxidized painty. Um, but then something like decanal, which has 10 carbons, uh, is actually an orange peel and tastes uh like like orange, so uh definitely possible that that's one of the ones you're generating early on, and that that smells nicer than other one. Especially black walnuts, which can have a little bit of like a weird fruity aroma note anyway, you know what I mean?
+
+[37:18] Yeah, no, totally, totally, and like that kind of like buttery caramel uh caramelized fruit flavor. Yeah, I feel like. Yeah. Yeah. Uh all right, I'm gonna be before uh let's get some let's get some questions in here.
+
+[37:29] I wanna we're gonna blast release. All right, Elliot says, Hey, uh Dave said on the previous uh previous episode that one should definitely get a flour mill, and it made sense at the particular effect I was aiming at, which was the tortillas made with the uh uh Sonoran white wheat, uh, because it required it, but uh I seem to be saying that one should have one more generally. Yeah, yes. I mean I I love it. I use it constantly.
+
+[37:52] I don't think everyone should have a flour mill, Elliot. I think that if you enjoy milling flour, you should have a flour mill, right? So the question is how do you know that you're gonna enjoy milling flour? That's the hard part. And it's a relatively large uh investment.
+
+[38:05] However, you can buy um the ones that are being sold generally on uh uh pleasant uh valley grains, which is where most people buy their um their grain mills in the United States, as far as I can tell. Como mock mill, um things like that. Uh those ones uh tend to not go on sale too often, right? So uh and they're not like on eBay that often, not at a great price. But there's a lot of older ones that do come on, and a lot of them work in fairly similar fashion, right?
+
+[38:42] Um, but it to really, I think get the best out of it, you need to invest in kind of a a a learning curve. So uh you know like I sifting, not sifting. So I I actually don't don't tell anyone I got I ordered two more different mills to test different mills out, right? So I'm gonna test uh an impact mill, uh you know, a home based impact mill and then a slower grinder made by Red Cell, one's made by Lee Organics, one's made by Red Cell. So I'll talk more about those mills uh when they come in.
+
+[39:16] But in general, I'll say this if you're interested in the flavor of whole wheat, which I am, uh I have never had a roller milled whole wheat flour that I thought was worth anything at all. I find them all terrible. I've never had one that I liked ever, right? And so if you've ever had whole wheat flour and been like I like this if I use 10% of it in a in a recipe because otherwise everything tastes terrible and dry and nasty and then you know maybe it's worth if you're if you're interested in trying to get that kind of flavor from whole wheat that you would actually enjoy, I think it's worth trying to g get a flour mill because that's the way to do it. Uh but I could talk more about it after I review the next two flour mills that come in.
+
+[40:07] Uh Quinn you like yours, right? Yeah I would say if it's available to you try and find like a small scale local stone mill near you is grinding relatively fresh, you know, interesting grains. And then obviously, if you like working with those flowers in your recipe, then I think that's a clear indicator that you'll like milling fresh flavor. Yeah, I don't buy a lot of I don't buy a lot of other people's uh when I say a lot, any of other people's uh flour, but um there are more ways that you could that we have time to talk about about how to by the way, some people even make sure that you're getting from a good person because uh a lot of people now I was I was reading a lot of people just throw uh throw grains through stone mills lightly, crack them, and then put them through roller mills so that they can say they've been stone ground. So just make sure you're getting it from an actual person who is stone grinding them.
+
+[41:21] The other thing is is that there are even traditionally zillions of ways to use stone grinders. So there's single pass, multi-pass, rel, you know, different kinds of sifting that can be done. And so even just saying stone milled, so you have to get a feeling for the type of flour that you're working with. So I like to I like to feel it between my thumb and my and my pointer finger. I get a good feeling for what the kind of flour is gonna feel like.
+
+[41:48] Like uh I would recommend as a start finding someone who's doing uh who's doing um high extraction, meaning they're doing some sifting, right? High extraction, single pass, uh whole wheat flour. Now, the reason why that's not a number that's gonna tell you everything is you need to know uh what the extraction rate was. And by extraction, I mean 100 grams of wheat goes in, a hundred grams of well, really not because you blow off some water, right? Water gets blasted off as you're milling.
+
+[42:19] But let's say a hundred grams of flour come out, how much of that flour gets sifted away? So an 85% extraction means that out of a hundred grams of flour that's being produced out of the mill, eighty-five grams of that ends up as flour, and 15 grams of that ends up as bran slash some of the germ slash some of the flour that's stuck to the bran and and whatnot. That's what 85 is. So uh, but there's different ways to get 85, right? So, like if I am doing if I'm grinding like very coarse, right?
+
+[42:51] It's you know, there's like there's different ways that 85 can happen. So you need to know the bolt, like what the what the uh mesh was. No one tells you this. You need to know what mesh they're putting it through, like what what sieve it's going through, what the extraction rate is at that sieve, and that's gonna give you a much better idea uh of kind of what you're dealing with. The other thing is like, you know, depending on what technique they're using, like whole wheat flour, fresh ground for tortillas or for shapati on like an atta uh like an atta grinder is gonna be a very different flour than the same flour milled on like large, slower moving stones at a lower temperature.
+
+[43:26] So you really gotta get a feel, and this is why having your own mill is so much fun because you get to control a lot of these variables yourself. But if you call, some of these places are small, and if you call them, they'll tell you all this information because they want you to know as much about their flowers as humanly possible because they're thinking that that can will make you a customer for life. So I would recommend like talking to them about how they do it, you know, you know, uh, to get a feeling for what um someone's flour is like. Does that make any sense? Anyway.
+
+[43:59] I was just saying, for me personally, I really dislike the flavor like you of commodity whole wheat flour. It's I think it's like your roller milling, I've never had a good one. I'm just saying this, I've never had a good one. Ever. I went out, I bought I think 10 different ones.
+
+[44:21] Being like one of these has to be good. Roller milled flour, whole wheat. Not one. Not one. All trash.
+
+[44:28] Filth. Filth. Filth. Uh more bread crap. Douglas writes in.
+
+[44:37] I recall Dave talking about rapid cooling a loaf of bread in a chamber of ac yielding a gray crust and a rapidly cooled loaf. I tried this and ended up with the loaf getting compacted, dense, kind of collapsing on itself. Any ideas? Yeah. Uh the machine was an ANOVA chamber vac.
+
+[44:50] Loaf had a hydration of about 80% and was a quick bread recipe, so had improved long, not sure what contributed to the end failure. So the ANOVA, I did it once in the ANOVA, and one of the issues on the ANOVA is it's very hard to control. Um, like when I I don't think they have a cooling function that does it relatively gently. Um, but I also had a lot of crushing results. You need the bread to cool down to a certain okay, hold on.
+
+[45:17] Certain breads are gonna have more hot strength than others, right? So, like a bread that has like zero hot strength, like rye bread, rye bread has zero hot strength. This is why you need to let rye breads cool for hours and hours before you slice them, or it they completely gummy mess, right? The starch has to set it something like cleaning blue cans, right? Yeah, and for some reason the starch just doesn't set up, right?
+
+[45:41] Like the structure of it's different. Like uh like small soluble fibers that are like dewy, even when kind of like an oats, I think. It's not exactly the same molecules in rye, but I think it's there's some similar one. Right. They also, but it also doesn't have the same gluten network that is like providing a secondary structure for it, right?
+
+[46:00] So like all yeah, all bread needs to set, but if there's a secondary gluten structure there, you can get around slicing it warm. But for any of you that have ever sliced bread warm, you can see that you've ruined the the the crumb where you sliced it, right? It's ruined. You can see like it doesn't look the same as regular sliced bread if you slice it before it's cooled down. And which is different from heating it up again and slicing it, which is fine.
+
+[46:27] Anyway, um, you know, to it to it to a degree. Anyway, point being like certain breads have better hot strength than others. So the the drier you've cooked the bread, the uh more gluten is in the bread, and any cooling time you can give it before you throw it into the vacuum, right? Also, the air it is, right, the the better. So like if you have one uh if it's more difficult for the air to escape the crumb, right, then it's more gonna tend to blow it up.
+
+[47:01] Whereas if it's very easy for the air to escape, if it's like a like a lot of uh uh interconnectivity between the pores inside of the bread, the easier it is for the air to escape, the less likely you are to blow up. But if you do blow it up, then what happens when the air comes back in, wham, it smashes it into it, and it's kind of unpleasant. So I have also, uh, Douglas had both good and bad luck depending on what the bread is. And ultimately, what you would want is something where you could control how fast the vacuum was applied and control how fast the air went back in. But as far as I know, there's no standard commercial machine that has a bread cooling cycle.
+
+[47:42] So I don't know. I don't know. Well, and and with bread cooling, you you care much more about uh rapidly evaporating water, thereby like cooling down the whole thing than expanding like existing air. No, yeah, no, it's all about you don't want to expand it at all. All you want to do is evaporate the water.
+
+[48:02] Exactly. And not only that, but it also makes the cr when it's when it works, like the crust is ridiculous, right? In fact, uh try try this, uh Douglas, like let it cool like 50% of the way, right? So it's like basically set and still just warm. Throw that sucker in the vacuum machine after it's already set but still warm, and you'll vacuum blast the stuff off of the outside of the crust, and it's the equivalent of throwing it back into a 350.
+
+[48:33] So a lot of times I cheat. If I don't like the crust, I wait for it to cool. I throw it back into a 350 oven uh at uh high convection for like 10 minutes just to blast the air off the crust again without heating the inside of the bread too much. But you can get some of that effect just by evaporating water in a vacuum machine. So so there you go.
+
+[48:51] Uh you might like this one, Ariel. Let's see. Matt from Mystic writes in Are paper towels food safe. I'd never heard someone ask this question before. I use paper towels in my cooking from time to time, wrapping a wet paper towel around vegetables to steam in a microwave, uh, emergency fill-in uh for coffee filters, and I've always wondered: are paper towels actually food safe?
+
+[49:14] Now you might have more information, but I'm gonna give it an emphatic yes because otherwise they would have been sued to death. To death. Yeah, no, I I I mean I can't think of anything that would make them not food safe. I mean, I guess like leached paper towels might like have more, I don't know, stuff that over the long term you might not love, but like I mean, paper towels are so ubiquitous and such a like regulated consumer product. So yeah, I don't think they're yeah, yeah, I think we're good.
+
+[49:46] I think you're good, Matt. Owen Kay writes in, trying to recreate a big night feast. Remember the movie Big Night People? It's one of my faves. Uh trying to uh recreate a big night feast and struggling with the emeraldie cookie paper rocket.
+
+[50:00] So for those of you who don't know, you you eat the cookie, you take the wrapper, you roll it into a tube, you stick the tube on the on a plate, and you light it on fire, and as it burns down, it leaves a little husk. That husk eventually the convective air forces go and it lifts into the air, but not with enough fire to light your house on fire. You know what I mean? Yeah. Uh but here I didn't know that.
+
+[50:24] I think that they have changed the paper. So Owen says, My multiple failed attempts prompted a search which reveals that the wrapping paper won't light as well as it used to. Teabag paper is a recognized substitute, but if I were to make my own uh cookies or re wrap them, where could I source optimally flammable paper? I preserm I presume that uh we are big night fans. Any ideas?
+
+[50:48] I don't know. I was about to run a test on wax paper, but I don't think there's enough residue in wax paper. Like uh the old cookie wrappers, I don't know. Any of you guys have any ideas? Any of you guys have a go-to wrapper that you light on fire?
+
+[51:00] I know Nastasia loves anything that he lights on fire and takes off, especially if you can light her neighbor's house on fire. I don't know. Jesus. Remember I got you all of those like uh like balloon lanterns, and you're like, go light light thee on fire. Amazing.
+
+[51:15] I love that stuff. Yeah. But uh, I don't know. Do you any of you guys have any cookies, uh cookies of note that you think uh would light up, light up real good? Or should we all should everyone listening to this try some experiments?
+
+[51:28] Let us know which papers make the best. Please don't burn your house down, okay? But let us know which papers uh work best. I used to have this happen constantly when I mean anyone who's worked in a in a in a in a pro kitchen where the pilot lights are broken has mistakenly you should keep a torch in your kitchen, not just because the torch should have a sears all on it, duh, but because it's really not the best idea to light your ovens with paper rolled up paper towels. But anyone that has lit their ovens with rolled up paper towels know that those things take off like a mother once they burn down like that.
+
+[52:05] You know what I mean? Fortune cookies probably light up pretty fast. Are they wrapped in paper still? I've only ever had the plastic ones now. No, just at least the the fortunes themselves.
+
+[52:14] Oh, yeah, but we need them tubed these. They need to be tubed. They need to be lightweight paper, and they need to burn down to an almost imperceptible residue. Yeah. You know what would be really cool looking is if you could get a paper that had a lot like reinforcement.
+
+[52:30] Like, you know the way that like kerosene lanterns used to like used to buy the the used to buy the mantles for kerosene lanterns, and they were fill of fabric within little wires in them because they were so fragile, and then you would light them once, and the structure would burn off of them and be left with this basically angel fairy like thing. If you could make something that floated away that looked like that, oh my God, that'd be awesome. I like fire though, probably a little too much. But anyway, people let uh let me know, people. Uh we'll we'll we'll wait, we'll wait to answer that Owen uh until next week.
+
+[53:02] People can uh let us know what whether they have any ideas. Uh okay. Let me see what we got. Math, oh, math man uh is gave gives us a pie question and is worried uh is is trying to is trying to troll you, Nastasia about pie marches on. On page 30 of Pie Marches On, uh Monroe Boss and Strauss talks about thickening fruit juices.
+
+[53:24] By the way, that's my pie bible. For those of you that this is the first time, I don't know that you've ever listened to this, like Monroe Boston Strauss was the god of pies as it comes to making pies for uh commercial and industrial bakeries, and he died sometime in the 70s, uh, and he kind of went into obscurity after World War II, blah, blah, blah. Um page 30 of Pie Marches On, Monroe talks about thickening fruit juices with starch and then quote unquote inverting the solution by adding sugar. Uh technically inversions only happen when one, but listen, he's just he's just using the wrong term. Math man.
+
+[54:03] He's just not using inversion correctly. It's he's he wrote it in the 30s. Give the guy a break. I think what he means is is that he thickens it with starch and he adds sugar, and then it appears to go clearer and like knock down. I think that's what he means by invert, but I I I just don't think he's using it correctly.
+
+[54:20] But I I'll I'll look at it, I'll look at it again. Uh Maddie writes in uh I thought uh earlier about this question, but the conversation that uh you guys had with Leahy and Peter Hoffman uh sparked a lot of questions. Uh as a baker, I had never heard of falling number. Uh so falling number, remember, is a measure of the enzymatic activity that is in a flower and the way that they measure it. I don't know why we can't measure this on our own.
+
+[54:47] I don't know why somebody doesn't make like a $30 thing instead of a $30,000 thing that can measure falling number. But simply what you do is you take a small test tube that's roughly 200 uh millimeters long and roughly uh you know less than an inch across, and you put uh seven grams of flour and I I forget how much water, something like 30 grams of water into it, and you heat it in boiling water with a plunger, and for 60 seconds you heat it and move it around to gelatinize the starch. So as you gelatinize it, the the amylase activity is going, it's very prescribed thing. So it doesn't matter how much damage starch. I was wrong about that during the thing in terms of getting your falling number because you're gelatinizing the starch.
+
+[55:31] And then you wait to see how long the plunger takes to fall through that test tube a specific distance. And that's what the falling number is. How long it takes for that plunger to fall a specific distance. And again, I don't know why for home bakers, someone won't make something that can give you a falling number because I think that we would be happy if the number was accurate to within, let's say six or seven, eight, ten percent even, so that you could get an idea. But nobody does.
+
+[55:58] I looked for hours to try to find someone who would just even give me the dimensions of the plunger used. The test tube, I can get the dimensions of. But the plunger, I was not able to get the dimensions of. If you have the dimensions of the plunger, you could do your own falling number test. Anyway, that's what we're talking about.
+
+[56:16] And we're talking about the fact that uh if you have a uh high uh low falling number, meaning that the plunger falls really fast, doesn't take that many seconds for the plunger to fall. It's an indication that there's enzymes uh present, amylase enzymes present in the flour that break down starch, right? And so that is a two-edged sword, right? So you need some amylase enzymes there to break down starch to provide sugar for the yeast to eat to grow. But on the other hand, uh water is being absorbed vastly more by uh damaged starch than it is by intact starch, right?
+
+[56:52] So proteins in damaged starch are absorbing a lot of the water in flour, especially in bread flour. And as soon as um and enzymes more readily attack damaged starch than they do in tack starch. So what happens is is that as the yeasts are going and fermenting, because you're produced the you know the enzymes are there producing sugar for them, right? You are um break the enzymes are breaking down that damaged starch, and therefore the dough goes slack because all the water that they're holding gets released as it's being turned into sugar and then getting consumed by the bacteria, right? That makes sense.
+
+[57:25] So uh I don't even where we're going. So um it is true, as you say, Matty, that uh a uh low falling number will also cause faster fermentation, but uh I don't think that's what's ca it it and possibly depending on what's growing, more acidity, right? Uh and acidity will at a certain point destroy the gluten structure and cause it to go more slack, but it's a multimodal thing. I think in my doughs go slack well before they become sour, uh simply due to the uh uh destruction of the starch. Um before anyone goes off, thanks uh Ariel for uh coming on.
+
+[58:05] But I'm gonna say this. Here's my thing from uh the last week. I made my freaking stuffed cabbage lasagna. And it was good. So people can it.
+
+[58:15] I made it with I didn't say that. I mean, people can eat it. How about that? Yeah, so like uh I made it, I had a bunch of vegetarians over, so I had to make it with impossible meat. I uh I took onions, a lot of onions, because I know I cook with an unconscionable amount of onions.
+
+[58:30] I cooked them down for an hour and 20 minutes on the brevel on the induction burner, because I can just walk away from it and let it cook for hours and hours until it cools down. I did maybe an hour and a half, two hours. Then uh I did some mushrooms, which I then chummed up into my fancy Italian tomatoes. I then browned off like a whole bunch of the impossible meat, added some smoked paprika, uh, added a little bit of this uh it's not bad actually, it's product I'm about to make better than better than bullion, their beef consume thing, a little bit of that, a little bit of Eros pista, which is like the the um the hot pepper paste from uh Hungary. Put that all together with the tomatoes, simmered that down, then layered it with the with the no uh with the no-cook uh lasagna and uh sauerkraut that I had let drain for three or four hours and then and then press out.
+
+[59:17] So just layered that up, no cheese, and it was money in the bank. Cooked it next to a regular cheese lasagna where I also put some mushrooms into the sauce to give it a little meatiness, and I used a little smoked scomorza along with the mozzarella so that uh it would have a little bit of that smoky, smoky, smoky, smoky. And people loved it. So people who thought it was gonna be a bad idea, uh, you're wrong. One thing I need to do, it needed to make it hold together a little better.
+
+[59:40] Uh anyway, so uh that's been my week in cooking. Next week we'll talk about John's uh restaurant cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking News coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, New Stand Studios, joined as usual with John. How are you doing, John? Doing great, thanks. And got Joe Hazen rocking the panels.
+
+[0:23] What's up? Rocking the panels. Rocking the panels. We don't have Queenie Quinn in the upper upper left, but we do have Nastasia the Hammer. Lopez, how you doing?
+
+[0:31] I'm good. Good, good, good. And Jackie Molecules. What's up? Yep.
+
+[0:37] Yup. I'm good. So listen, people, you don't know this, but uh, you know, to the extent that we get here a little bit beforehand, we uh, you know, we we chat, and uh uh Jackie Molecule says he's got a rant for us. Bring it. Yeah, I I do.
+
+[0:52] I I had the displeasure of uh attending maybe the worst food festival I've ever been to in my life. Oh an event that should not exist. Bring it. And yeah, Nastasia was there as well. Oh, this is called ch it's called Chainfest, right?
+
+[1:08] And I don't know if you've heard of this, but get this. It's it's uh the tickets are apparently expensive. I was uh invited for free nicely, but um I don't know, talking stuff about something you went to for free. Okay. Well listen to this, man.
+
+[1:21] Listen to this. You you end up in a parking lot and all of the vendors are fast food chains. That's why it's called Chainfest. And it's essentially, I guess what they're doing is like test kitchen items. They advertise it as like exclusive like new sauces from KFC or you know, uh Domino's pizza with like caviar or something.
+
+[1:40] Oh my god. Um was that real? Hold on, stop. Stop. Did you make that up or is that real?
+
+[1:46] No, I'm not making that up. The Domino's pizza had uh smoked salmon caviar and like whipped marscopone. Yeah. On a cold piece of Domino's. Did it still have that crappy, that crappy sweet sauce?
+
+[1:59] Hey, I used to work for Domino's, by the way. So, you know. Okay. Well then, no, I yeah. Here's some of the things you you could be so lucky to try.
+
+[2:08] Cracker barrel, red robin, uh, red lobster, panda expression. Well, red lobster. Red lobster was what was their thing? Like, we're gonna exist again? It was a VIP only cheddar biscuit with lobster, which I doubt was really lobster.
+
+[2:24] It was probably like imitation lobster or something. And were they like, this is what we were working on when we clawed. Is that what they said? I think they reopened. I think they they ended up like surviving bankruptcy or something.
+
+[2:35] But anyway, the point being, right, you you go to this thing and they give you a passport, you wait in the line to get one little crappy taste of fast food in a parking lot in Los Angeles. Yeah, and then you can't go for seconds. What? How do they know? They look at you and they're like stamp your passport.
+
+[2:52] They give you a passport that gets stamped. Oh, that's um, and they're in these like activations where you take pictures with like, you know, the Panda Express panda or something. It was so gross. So a couple things I'm gleaning is it's not really for people who are interested in food. No, well, it is advertised towards those people.
+
+[3:11] But you got coverage in all the and in eater and all these other places. Food Instagram, though, not food food. Right. Yeah. If someone said, if someone said you could come and you're gonna take ta you know, taste all of these like things that like may or may not go into production, like from a food perspective, you'd be like, that's interesting to see if they were gonna give you it in good condition and let you actually taste it.
+
+[3:34] But if it's all about taking a picture with a mascot, that's a different crew, right? I think it's trying to do both. And I mean, the way it advertised itself as a gourmet chain food festival with exclusive gourmet offerings. That's their language. Let me ask you this.
+
+[3:51] If you were gonna go pay the full chump charge, how much would it cost? Something like uh 375 for a VIP. Whoa. For VIP. $375?
+
+[4:06] Well, but for VIP, we were a VIP. But what do you get for being a VIP? First of all, for those of you that have never been in a VIP room, like the real VIPs don't go to the VIP room. The real VIPs have their own room that's curated by somebody else. The VIP room is the tool.
+
+[4:22] So you're not with the fun people and you're not with the VIPs. If you've never been in a VIP room, the average VIP room is really just like hot sauce, back me up on this. The average VIP room sucks. Yeah, yeah. And we had to pay for our own drinks too, being VIP.
+
+[4:39] So it was Yeah, $22 drinks. Oh my God. Now let me ask you this. We have a caller. Let's bring them into this conversation.
+
+[4:48] Caller? Who is it? Is it is it Quinn or is it? It's just Hey, Quinny Quinn and the Get Fresh Quinn. So you can get a but listen, here's the here's my point.
+
+[4:56] Like, was it the first year that they did it? Because sometimes people are like, it's easy to put on a festival. And you're like, no. No. No, it went out there.
+
+[5:05] Not in the first year. Because like the first year that Googamoga ran, I don't know if they did it again, but the first year Google Mooga ran. I don't remember that, yeah. They they crashed all the cell towers, and instead of having walkie talkies, the event was trying to run itself off cell phones. And so no one working the event even knew what was going on because no one could communicate with each other because they didn't have walkie-talkies, right?
+
+[5:25] So there's a lot of like rookie mistakes you make the first time you run a festival, and someone who plans festivals is like, I'm gonna I'm gonna charge you like $150,000 to plan this festival. And you're like, I'm not gonna pay you $150,000. And you're like, okay. And then you walk away, you know what I mean? But Dave, the bigger issue, like, is this where we've come in food?
+
+[5:45] Like, is Monsanto Fest next? Like, this is crazy. I would go to that. Oh, if I could go to Monsanto Fest and like try a snack chip that made me glow for a week and a half, I would totally do that. Okay, fine.
+
+[5:59] Maybe Monsanto Fest would be better than Chainfest. Yeah, like, like, like, like Monsanto needs to come out with like crisper crispies that actually change my DNA as I eat them. You know what I mean? Like, that's what I'm looking for. Telling you.
+
+[6:12] And everybody loves sci-fi. Yeah, listen. When they allow people to like gene edit like like old crotchety people like myself, I'm signing up. I want that glow-in-the-dark like dot in the middle of my head so I can see at all times, especially if I could turn it off and on. Yo, if I could turn it off and on, my little bioluminescent, like, you know, flashlight in the center of my head.
+
+[6:39] Come on. Although, like Well, there was one thing, there was one really cool thing you did get at Chainfest, wasn't it? And um, that was diarrhea. Jackie Molecules, the SSS set on spray. Love it.
+
+[6:53] Love it. Stas, I'm sure uh Nastasia of the Iron Constitution didn't have such problems. No, actually, I thought, well, so Aaron Polski was there too, and I saw him like rushing across the crowd because I was like, Yeah, he's gonna go tell them that we deserve that we deserve free drinks. Like, yeah. So I like went to go taste him.
+
+[7:09] So I was like, I want to be there when he takes down the ticket person who's like, we need free drinks. So I like couldn't find him and I texted him and I was like, Where'd you go? And he said, I should go. Oh my God. Who knew Polcat was so delicate?
+
+[7:24] Now he's gonna text me. Now he's gonna text me and complain. So we were at the beach before Chainfest and we oh yeah, you talked about that, Dave. And we had like that had been sitting in the car with tuna in it for like four hours. So you know.
+
+[7:40] Could have been that. My uh maybe, but like I you know, I wonder how unsafe that is. We gotta get this riskier not people back on because like tuna done been cooked to death, right? Mayonnaise is okay, but I guess you're folding new you're folding new poison into it when you make the salad, right? Yeah.
+
+[7:58] My grandma's diluting the water or you're increasing the water activity. Yeah. Like a lot. So my grandma, who is, you know, depression era or whatever, uh, she would like she would like as soon as she put mayonnaise on a sandwich, she didn't realize somehow that mayonnaise is actually shelf stable in reality. And so like as soon as she put mayonnaise on a sandwich, like the shot clock was on that.
+
+[8:22] If you didn't like, she would put it on your plate, and if you like took a pause to like, you know, have a conversation like we're having now, she would throw the sandwich away and make it a new one. I'm like, Grandma, she's like, the mayonnaise, the babies. Anyway. But like if you go to New Orleans, man is just sitting in a jug on the on the thing. Yeah.
+
+[8:39] And New Orleans, nasty hot. You know what I mean? Like, nasty. Anyway. Uh well, that's a good story there, Jack.
+
+[8:46] Uh, Queen, what do you got for us since you're uh just freshly come on here? Uh let's see. I tried some conquered grape thereby I made. That turns out pretty good. Although it was in the fridge for two days.
+
+[9:02] So I think the fresh concord juice fermented like a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Well. So there's a little so there's a little sunk in the survey.
+
+[9:13] Yeah. For those who don't make Concorde products, con for those of you that are, I don't know, maybe there's a French person listening. Concorde grapes, which you probably hate being the only French person listening to this show, right? Are, you know, not good wine grapes. However, ain't nothing smell better than fresh Concorde grapes.
+
+[9:33] And Nastasi is gonna agree with me on this, I'm pretty sure. Oh yeah. I mean Nastasi and I stu Nastasia hates all the weird little gotsies that I do in the kitchen sometimes, except for when it comes to working with Concorde grapes. And then she's like, Yeah, yeah, you gotta do that right, or you're an idiot, right? Uh and Nastasi and I used to go, well, remember when we used to be able to get the French culinary to order them for us and like the cost didn't matter.
+
+[9:57] Now we have to go to the farmer's markets like idiots and buy it. Yeah. Yeah. And it's w one of the rare things that we do really well here in New York. You know what I mean?
+
+[10:07] On like strawberries that we think we do well. I try stuffers are delicious. Yeah, okay, whatever. Go to Harry's Berry's Joker. You know what I mean?
+
+[10:14] Yeah, whatever. Uh what were you gonna say? But I mean, overall turned out pretty good. It was about like eighty percent like Encore material, mostly juice, and a little bit of actual like grape flesh and skin for like bulking material. But uh yeah, that was pretty good.
+
+[10:38] Before I get back to King Fox. Yep. Yeah. Go ahead. Or go ahead.
+
+[10:43] I was gonna say, you said juice, and it reminded me that I was at a sandwich shop with Dax and he ordered roast beef a jus. And the the waiter, she said, Do you want something anything else on this sandwich? And he stupidly said no, thinking it was gonna come with stuff like mustard and whatnot, right? Pickles. And he came and like, this sandwich is plain.
+
+[11:09] I was like, she asked you if you wanted anything on it, and you said no. So people who own restaurants gotta realize that sometimes jamokes, such as my son, will show up and not realize that certain things need to be asked for for the sandwich to taste good. So, you know, the server, she could have said, you know, do you really like things a hundred percent plain? Or maybe some mustard and pickle would be nice. Anyway, go ahead, Queen.
+
+[11:40] What do you say? And the second project my family did, we're all a little obsessed with the new Netflix chef's table noodles. I don't know what I have no idea what you're talking about. I have no idea what you're talking about. Netflix.
+
+[11:59] I'm familiar with Netflix, the streaming service. Yeah, yeah. But I don't watch food, I don't watch food TV because like, why would I don't. You know what I mean? But like, what like what's what's with the noodles?
+
+[12:09] What kind of noodles? Which of the billion noodles are we talking about? Cool noodles. Cool noodles. You make them in a pool.
+
+[12:15] That's a good idea. Jacuzzi noodles? I would sign up for that. That's like a Heston Blumenthal trick from like the early 2000s. Alright, so what's what's a what is the new noodle?
+
+[12:26] Again, they it it's a series. I mean, and each episode follows the shift. So the first episode was about Evan Funky, who is an American born chef, but they trained in Italy, and their shtick is all handmade fresh pasta, zero machines. Mm-hmm stash No, I know him. He's a good guy.
+
+[12:47] Alright. So is he making a kind of pasta that wants to be fresh? Because that's the thing. Make a kind of pasta that wants to be fresh. Yeah, again, yeah, you know, the episode featured many different shapes, you know, classic, just like egg, egg tagatelli, uh, you know, filled pastas, that sort of thing.
+
+[13:07] One of the shapes they showed was called trophy. And it's a semolina or Durham water dough. And you can wheat flower and egg, Dave. Well, uh, I don't know if you know this. Durham is a wheat.
+
+[13:29] You know what I mean? Yes, I do. But like be precise, you know what I'm saying? Go ahead. Is it bronze cut?
+
+[13:36] Uh the dice? Well, no, because he's not using any machines. Oh, rolling it by hand. Okay, it's all hand. Well, I mean, although pen, pin and a knife.
+
+[13:43] You know what those are, John? Yeah, yeah, machines. Yeah, go ahead. Simple machines. Yes, go ahead.
+
+[13:51] And so you take a little nubbin of the pasta dough, you sort of roll it forward with your hand to make like a small tapered shape. And then with the blade of your hand, you drag backward, and it makes a corkscrew. It's a very sort of interesting motion. So we tried to do that. And my dad could like get it sometime.
+
+[14:25] But then we pivot it to our cabin. Yeah, well, because those are easy to make. And by the way, impossible to cook. Easy to make, impossible to cook. You know what I mean?
+
+[14:35] Like that's a thing like Oricetti, I'm sorry, it's one of those pastas where, like, I understand it's like a gin and tonic. I understand that it can be good, and yet it almost never is. Pasty on the inside and gummy on the out. I like dried ordered kette, I think. I mean, it can be good.
+
+[14:56] Yeah. Or it can be a heartache. Yeah. Yeah, but I know, but these are fresh. If you like if you like the real nerve on the inside, or if you're not worried about it and getting blast out, here's an interesting one.
+
+[15:07] I was in uh by the way, back to Concords, because I need to give people some technical information on Concord grapes. So for those of you that never heard like the whole shtick on Concord Grapes before, first of all, a sign of a good don't go to a supermarket and buy seedless Concord grapes. Just don't. Don't, don't No, it's not the same. Yeah, right.
+
+[15:26] Right. Don't buy it. Not only that, and I think I get this in your voice. Don't support it. Don't support it.
+
+[15:33] Not a Concord. Not a Concorde grape. Don't do it. Second, you can't put Concorde grapes in a masticating. Any kind of juicer that's gonna shred the the seeds of a Concord grape is gonna make the juice bitter and nasty.
+
+[15:52] And by the way, when I say bitter and nasty, I like bitter and nasty sometimes, but not with my Concord grapes. So you're with me so far, right, Stas? Yes. And that's nine tenths of why it took us a million years to do Concord stuff. But when you press Concorde, the juice doesn't come out as dark as you think it it should, right?
+
+[16:13] So what you need to do is press it, and then as though you were a wine maker, I had enzymes, of course, because come on. But like press it, and then you can knead it by hand if you need to or whatever. I mean, I have equipment that'll do it for you. But uh let it sit on the skins for a long time, then repress it again to extract as much color out of the skins. You want to break it, preferably break down some of the, you know, um, break down some of the fruit so you and you want to extract the color because that color and like a lot of the flavor is around the skins.
+
+[16:43] So what I do uh when I'm making alcoholic drinks is I'll as I'll do that, I'll smash the grapes and I'll, you know, with almost like with a muddler, if I don't have my you know, hydraulic press, I'll just use a muddler and or a potato masher, and then I'll put pectinx in it and I'll mash it with the pectanex and let it really macerate for a while. Then I'll get the juice out of it by squeezing the hell out of it. Then I'll take the squeezing, this the the dry part, and I'll put that into liquor. And then the liquor will extract more color and flavor, and then I squeeze that again, and that's how I get maximum. Maximum.
+
+[17:17] Of course. We have like just a really dinky like screw press. Yeah. And it worked okay. I didn't want to add pectinx because I we were potentially gonna make jelly.
+
+[17:30] And so I didn't want to like mess with the pectin. Yeah. But even without pectanex, let it sit on the skins again and then repress it, stir it around, knead it. Yeah, anyway. And also speaking of bitter and gross, something else minor, but I uh pay the King's ransom for some moxie soda, and I tried that.
+
+[17:51] That was a mistake to pay extra for it. I actually like it. Yeah, it's fine. You know who makes a really good soda that's Coke. I don't know.
+
+[18:01] Would you pay extra? I would pay for it. I would pay extra for Dr. Brown's celray soda because that is so yeah. What about some jolt?
+
+[18:11] I know I've never had jolt. Never had jolt? No, never had jolt. Like Red Bull and a cola. But oh my god, now you put now you put uh that Simon and Garfunkel song Jolt and Joe's left and gone away, Cuckoo Kachew, Mrs.
+
+[18:24] Robinson. Oh god. Uh it's never gonna leave my head. Do you know that I found that uh someone said it's like a it it is like a known psychological problem. The the the inability to get music out of your head is like a thing, right?
+
+[18:39] That certain people like me have. So like it's hard to break the internal soundtrack. You know what I mean? I believe it. So uh I was in Pittsburgh this weekend, and of course I went by my favorite uh D-Trix on the way over.
+
+[19:01] By the way, Dietrix is uh in Crumbsville, right outside of Lenhardt's. All right. And you go there and they only take cash. So just be aware that they only take cash. They do have an ATM machine.
+
+[19:13] But I'm not gonna take two or three dollars from you when you do that. Right. The prices are decent. I stocked up on my favorite, like for those of you that don't know me. When I eat pretzels, I eat pretzels that are made with the following ingredients: flour, water, salt, yeast.
+
+[19:32] Well, uh, lye, and or you know, some sort of base for the boil, right? But other than that, I don't really want anything else in my in my pretzel in general. I don't want fats or oils because if I wanted a cracker, I would have asked for a cracker. I want it in pretzel shape. So, but they had there's one pretzel.
+
+[19:48] Oh my God, I can't remember. I've got to bring them in. I forgot the name of it. But there's one pretzel that they make there where they make a soft pretzel, butter press style pretzel, lighter, and then they dehydrate it and they're real hard. And for some reason, Ruthie's, I really like them.
+
+[20:02] So I buy a bunch of bags when I'm there, along with a bunch of other like Penn Dutch pretzels uh and other pen Dutch gear. So I got John his ring bologna, that's I said a million times. I got my Lebanon bologna, which is, you know, not baloney and not from Lebanon, the country. It's Lebanon, Pennsylvania, very sour. Anyway, so I was getting my Pennsylvania Dutch on on my way over to Pittsburgh.
+
+[20:20] Uh I was going to a wedding in Pittsburgh. And when you go to Pittsburgh, you go to the Heinz, the Heinz, Heinz, America's favorite ketchup. You go to the Heinz Museum, and they have an entire Heinz like exhibit. And here's some some highlights. Heinz used to have something in Walgreens where you could buy Heinz dehydrated soups, and the person behind the counter at Walgreens would heat it up in a special tailor-made Heinz soup machine, and with its own can openers and its weird little electric like mugs and stuff like that.
+
+[20:51] And then right next to it, they had wait for it, a Heinz baked bean, electric bean pot crock, which are s and little like like Walgreens, Heinz bean like cups. Oh my God, so cool. And it's even better. So Heinz was, they were very, very uh frugal folk, right? The uh the people who own the company.
+
+[21:14] And so he made fake pickles, right? They come in a little leather, like, you know how you have like a little leather tool case that folds up? There was a little leather leather tool case that you open up, and inside of it are four pickles with different different sizes of fake pickle. Pickle-colored, pickle-shaped, look like pickles, with a number on it. And you hold up the pickle, the real pickle next to the sample pickle, and then on the fake pickle was written the number of pickles per barrel at that size.
+
+[21:45] And then you would look up the cost, and they could determine, like on the fly, the profit they would get off of a particular barrel of prickles by using their like salesperson like sample pickle. Sick. I was like, sick, awesome. Not on eBay. I looked.
+
+[22:01] I looked. I was like, pickle samples, eBay. They're like, nah, nah. Nah. Too rare.
+
+[22:07] Too rare, even for us. Uh went to uh, so have you had the oven-baked hoagies before? So it's like it's like a hoagie, which is like a sub, you know, for there, right? But they put them in the oven and heat them up. I didn't go to Pramonty's because, you know, apparently it's real touristy, like, and so like they put French fries and whatnot, but I went to a place called Big Gyms.
+
+[22:26] And I was like, how good's the Italian hoagie gonna be? And so they make the like a standard like an Italian hoagie, and they but they they oven it so it's like hot and like a little bit stale stash crispy in a good way on the outside, you know what I mean? But then they lift it and they put the cold stuff on it on top, right? Like Nastasia does with liquid intelligence to separate the like the hot and the and the cold. And then they bring you a squeezy bottle of their own Italian dressing to like spray all over it as you eat it.
+
+[22:55] I was like, you know what this is? Good. Good. Real good. And it's on Saline Street.
+
+[23:01] So you're going across, get it. You go, swear to God, you're going across Hot Metal Bridge in Pittsburgh. You go across hot metal bridge, and then you make a right onto Saline Street. Hot Metal Bridge is named after the fact that they would melt the metal on one side of the river and then pour it on the other, and they had a bridge over the river where huge crucibles of molten steel were going over the water. And at one point during World War II, 15% of all the steel made in the United States was going over the hot metal bridge.
+
+[23:29] I was like, oh, I would have, as for as much of a hellscape as that would have been, I kind of wish I had seen it. You know what I mean? Yeah, like it was like nightmare. Nightmare. Yeah.
+
+[23:39] Uh and so on the way over to Pittsburgh, I uh I stopped by a town I used to go to all the time called, and okay, get your get it, get it out now, Chartlesville. Yes. Contains the word chart. And they named the town long before that meant like, you know, a toot that a tooth that went too far, right? Okay?
+
+[23:59] So get it out of your system. So when I was a kid, Charlesville was exactly in between my parents and my grandparents. So they used to drop me off in Charlesville. We would all have a meal at a Penn Dutch place called Hague's because my dad's family, you know, comes from Pennsylvania Dutch, like York kind of stuff, right? And so uh I went there and it turns out this entire town is shut down.
+
+[24:20] They used to have a place called also uh Roadside America with an entire miniature plate that got dismantled over COVID and auctioned off. It doesn't exist anymore. So the entire town, all of the stuff that I used to go see when I was a kid is basically gone. They don't even have a Stuckies anymore. You know what I mean?
+
+[24:36] So uh, but I stopped into an antique store while I was there, and they have the old 1994 edition Charlesville community cookbook. And let me go, I highly recommend it. I highly recommend it because they give all of these like old, like, you know, like the old, like, you know, bot boy, the uh Pennsylvania like pot pie where you make the noodles and you drop it into the soup and you boil it. So they have that, but they call it out all out in pen Dutch, like Hinkle Hinkle Bot Boy. They have like, you know, the uh, you know, the there's one called uh Bova Shenkle, which is like the uh like it's like little boy legs, and they're j basically giant pieroges that are they're like cooked over a broth and then panned with butter, and they they have those in the red.
+
+[25:20] So I highly recommend it. And it cut and it has little words of wisdom in the bottom, most of which are about God and you know, but one of which was this, which I'll I'll leave you with before I leave uh leave the uh Charlesville community cookbook. It says, hospitality is making people feel at home when you wish they were. I was like, God bless you. God bless you.
+
+[25:50] Oh, and uh there's a giant candy store in Pittsburgh uh that sells candy and tobacco, right? But puge. And uh I forget the name of it, but they had their Herb's pickled hot sausage, right? Uh Herb's pickled hot sausage, and I didn't buy it there because it didn't have price talk tags on anything, and like I can't stand that. Like, tell me what's gonna cost.
+
+[26:10] I don't want to have to come and have a negotiation for every freaking thing I'm gonna buy. Just write the freaking price on it. You know what I mean? Just do it. Um, or if you don't want to write prices, put a dot on it and then have a decoder ring if you want to change the prices every day.
+
+[26:22] If there's a spot price for pickled sausage, but so I bought it on Amazon. And it's got a nice congealed, it clearly heated up enough for some of the fat to come out of the sausage and congeal on the side of the bucket. And John and Joe, are you gonna get tuck into this or no? Oh, yeah. Man, they shipped it without a top seal on it, meaning that could have leaked all over anything at any time.
+
+[26:45] Oh, it smells a little bit like what I'm sure Polski was smelling like right before he went to the uh at the fast food joint. But let me see here. Let's see, we see what we got going here. It slices, so this is a sausage that was like pickled in vinegar and food coloring. And I don't know if you if any of you have grown grew up in the 70s like I did.
+
+[27:07] There used to be a thing, they still make it called Vienna sausage. And what it is is it's a mealy little sausage in a can full of water. And um came in a tin, like uh like sardines. Yeah, yeah. And uh this has a little bit of that squidgy, a little squidgy feeling.
+
+[27:23] Let's see whether it's got that canned meat taste that I actually enjoy. Hold on a second. Okay, okay. Okay, okay. Okay, okay.
+
+[27:36] John, you eat it and you describe it. There's something good and something terrible. But I don't know what it is. I can't describe it. What do you got?
+
+[27:51] I I don't the texture, just kind of like it's a little sandy. Yeah, well, you knew that was gonna happen when you soaked meat in vinegar after you had cooked the hell out of it. It's got a and also eating it out of an un, you know, a lid that's not really. Yeah, yeah. So uh why don't we wash that?
+
+[28:08] Don't go to put sand. Joe, Joe, why don't we wash this down with what do you bring, Joe? Give me give me give me the give me the story on Twiglets while John and I try it. Well, I mean, you were were referring to twiglets. I talked to my wife, she's a Brit, she knows twiglets very well.
+
+[28:22] So I found them at uh the local Amazon, and boom, we got twiggets in the house. They taste like yeasty but like burnt toast. They are burnt toast, yeah. Yeah, bitter, but I like them. I like it too.
+
+[28:34] I kind of found that I I enjoy I kind of went back and back for them. Yeah, yeah. That's one of those things where you're like, nope. And then you're like, you know what? Not bad.
+
+[28:43] Yeah. Yeah, there's a little bit of yeast. Burnt. Little bit of yeast. All right.
+
+[28:48] Uh um, all right. So we had a question in. I'm trying to find it because I want to make sure. Okay. Tony Tony, but spelled with a Y, not with an I.
+
+[28:58] Uh Joe's like, cover up the sausage. Cover up the sausage. Can't take it. He can't take it. All right, so um we got a question in from Tony Tony uh about Kitchen Arts and Letters.
+
+[29:10] Uh Kitchen Arts and Letters is uh selling uh a book called Tacos C D M X, like Ciudad, Mexico, right? And Tony Tony says, think of getting my son a copy of this book for Christmas, since he loves tacos and does business in Mexico City. Uh I'm not sure a book of this style is worth the hundred and twenty-five dollar asking price, though. And so then uh, you know, I said, okay, I will ask Matt Sartwell of Kitchen Arts and Letters. And so here's what he replied.
+
+[29:41] Uh, this is an amazing resource created on the ground in uh Mexico City. It's very handsomely photographed and printed with an energetic design that's very much Mexico City, and it's a slightly oversized book found in full cloth. We buy the book from a small publisher that only prints these Tucker seller tributes. There's also one for Tijuana and a new one coming for Guadalajara, probably arriving at the same time as the reprint of the Mexico City. It's a lot more expensive than a standard U.S.
+
+[30:07] published book. If someone's just looking for a guidebook, it's overpriced for that service alone. It's a cultural uh it's a cultural statement. We don't have final details of the price of the reprint. Here's where here's why you want to buy from Kitchen Arts Landers.
+
+[30:20] Get ready for this, though. Uh a hazard of working with indie publishers and coping with currency fluctuations. Uh the Mexican peso has strengthened over the last year or two. But it's possible the price will come down. If that happens, we will refund the difference to anyone who has pre-ordered at 125 dollars.
+
+[30:35] I hope that helps someone make a decision, Matt. So he says worth getting as a cultural document, and if the price comes down by the time he gets it, he'll pass those savings on to you. Matt Matt's hardwell's awesome. I mean, as you were reading that, I saw in his head like bobbing. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[30:54] Well, you know, man. I figured rather than paraphrase what he said, read what he said. We should get him back on around like right before Christmas or you know, the holidays help come up with like a guide of what's good to get up. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[31:07] Uh all right, what else do we got here? Um I recently okay, we gotta handle this. Alexander wrote this a long time ago. Alexander, sorry about that. I recently, but not so recently anymore, but theoretically recently, uh came across a large amount of vanilla beans, 500 grams, and I'm wondering what to do with them.
+
+[31:24] I've made a vanilla extract before, but 500 grams would make a lot of extract. What are some other ways to use this much vanilla? Also, what's the best method for making vanilla extract? Has anyone tried Sous vide? I've only soaked the beans in alcohol before.
+
+[31:35] Alexander, the best way to make vanilla extract is to get somebody to do it for you. Because uh, when you visit like a flavor house, like Nastasi and I, Nastasi and I visited uh it's not called David Michael anymore. They got bought by somebody, but we visited David Michael and we asked them this same question. Remember this, Doz? Yeah.
+
+[31:52] Yeah. And they laughed at us. For you know, first of all, like they have like three people working their vanilla desk. And by the time they're done with the vanilla, it has no flavor left in it at all. At all.
+
+[32:05] So, like, like, you know, I've said this on the air a bunch of times, but in case, you know, you haven't done this first time you're listening. They walk, we walked up to a 55-gallon drum of vanilla uh seeds, right? That have been scraped free of their pods. And uh Julie Snarski, who is, you know, the person giving us our tour, she dips the spoon in, hands us each a spoon, and she says, What do you taste? And we put the whole spoon in our mouth, and Nastasi and I, what do we taste, Daz?
+
+[32:32] Nothing. Nothing. Like vaguely woody planty. Nothing. Yeah.
+
+[32:38] Nothing. Right? And we were like, oh man. And she's like, yeah, we actually sell these 55 gallon drums to an ice cream manufacturer who shall remain nameless. It's Briars.
+
+[32:49] And they dump it into their into their ice cream to make it look like they made it from fresh vanilla beans, which what they did instead was they got extract and then dumped these tasteless dots into it. Right? Those dots could just as easily be, you know, metal shavings. They have no flavor whatsoever. You know what I mean?
+
+[33:09] And it's because they have like very hardcore like ways to like decocked it once, decoct it twice, spin it out, crush it, but they had like that. This is what they do for a living, to get like the most vanilla kind of vanilla you can get out of it. And, you know, I think that the professionals, if you buy a high quality one, like what's your what you guys, anyone here have a favorite vanilla? You Nielsen Massey people, what are you? You fans.
+
+[33:35] That's usually what I get is Nielsen Massey, but yeah. Madagascar? Well, for a variety, yeah. So like if you can get Tahitian, you get Madagascar, you can't really get Mexican on the. Anyway, so like my point being that it's very hard to compete with them in terms of that.
+
+[33:47] What I recommend that you do is vacuum bag them down in almost single-serving portions so that they stay a lot longer. The enemy is not necessarily time per se in vanilla. The enemy is uh moisture loss and volatile loss. So if you can stem the loss of volatiles, right, and bags aren't perfect for it, right? So, you know, you could also vacuum them in a jar, I guess it has the correct humidity, but like the enemy of it is uh is they need to stay kind of pliable and they need to not flash off.
+
+[34:19] So I would I would recommend packaging them in a way where they don't turn as my family would say, shad yad. Um you know what I mean? Which I don't think is a curse. Close to a curse. Close to a curse.
+
+[34:34] Uh but you know, I don't know, what else to do vanilla vanilla? You eat it, right? What do you guys like? I like ice cream, I like cremong. I mean, if they have that much, I like cakes.
+
+[34:43] They could refill like 200 grams. Yeah, but like who wants to build, you know, like who wants to like be in the re- Hey, come over to my house. Yeah, like you have a coat with like a like a little, like you open it up, you have all these vanilla beans hanging in inside. All kinds of things on Facebook Marketplace. We would totally be getting some shady vaccine vanilla beans on Facebook.
+
+[35:07] Yeah, but you'd expect them to be almost free. Facebook Marketplace is for people who like who like are like too shady to go on eBay. I know that because I buy stuff on Facebook Market Page Place. You know what I mean? And you're like, I don't know.
+
+[35:22] Hey, hey, psila. Vanilla. Anyway. Uh Nick says, I live in a small apartment in Brooklyn and planning a party for as many people as I can fit. Party, I'm sure it's over, because this question came in a while ago, but we're still gonna tell you, Nick.
+
+[35:36] Uh for as many people as I can fit the apartment. I would like to serve some fried food, maybe aren'tini or fried chicken. But I've attempted deep frying during a party and it was messy and challenging in my place. There's one good reason to fry at a party. If you hate your guests, if you hate your guests, you don't have to be around them because you're gonna be working the whole time.
+
+[35:54] The whole time, right? You know, back when I used to do every week was Friday, you know, Sunday was Friday at the Carpenter Arnold homestead back in the day, because I had a 40-pound commercial deep fryer in my apartment. So I, you know, I I could crank out enough food to feed like 20, 30 people at a party. No sweat. You know what I mean?
+
+[36:16] Like literally, like, you know, four or five, you know, four pounds at a time, who and like it's fine. You know what I mean? But you know, with a normal stove, there ain't no way that you can do that. You just can't, right? So uh how's the cleanup after that?
+
+[36:32] On a commercial fryer? Fine. I mean, they're they're built for it. Yeah, you know. Uh and you know, you reuse the oil, right?
+
+[36:38] So like in a non-restaur setting where you're not abusing it and you're not going, you know, ham on it all the time, you just uh cool it, filter it, cover it, and you're good like three, four, three, four fries, depending. Really depends more sometimes. It depends on the oil you use and what you're frying. Um, you know, if you use stabilized oil, like, you know, then it lasts a long, long time. Um, but yeah.
+
+[37:02] Commercial deep fryers are much more gentle on oil than frying in a pot because you're not overheating the oil as much. So everyone knows commercial deep fryers are like, you know, from the heavens, like a gift, like they like it's like uh fryer. Uh and every day that I think about the fact that I no longer have one in my kitchen, a little tear comes to my eye. I'm one of those like, you know, uh the what's that clown? Emmett, whatever, with the tear coming out of his eye.
+
+[37:26] Uh okay. Uh I've attempted Deep Rine during a party and it was messy and challenging in my place. Is there any method that comes close to newly fried but lets me do frying a few hours in advance, or is it best just to avoid fry stuff? Well, Nick, do you have a uh an ANOVA APO precision oven or access to any form of combi, combi loid or CVAP? Because if you do, you can um those were designed to hold Kentucky fried chicken for a long time.
+
+[37:55] So what you do uh if you can do it is you set uh a certain amount of steam in the well, though you you set the depends on whether you have a CVAP, uh an ANOVA or or what, but what you're trying to do is you're trying to set the wet bulb type temperature to be roughly the temperature that you want to hold the fried food at. So let's say uh 60, right? 140 or lower, right? So like somewhere between 55 and 60, you're gonna want to have that usually set. And then you set the dry bulb temperature, which is the temperature of the kind of the the air to be uh higher so that you maintain a certain amount of crispiness, right?
+
+[38:34] So ANOVA actually sets wet bulb dry bulb temperature, whereas like uh, you know, the CVAP just has a crispy number. And so the higher the crispy maybe they've changed it but the higher the crispier number like the basically the drier the surface will be and you can mimic that yourself if you're handy with uh like a water pan, an oven and some PID controllers, but you know, probably easier just to buy the ANOVA. And the ANOVA has enough power to function as a holding oven uh in that uh capacity. Uh what do you think? Covered and smothered?
+
+[39:06] Good? Good. Covered and smothered. There you go. Uh Harris uh J says uh I try I uh I like to make uh wait I like to make oh out there kind of cookies.
+
+[39:18] My white whale has been trying to achieve a Florentine style crust on the outside of the cookie. So far I've made a sugar syrup that's uh taken to just before the hardball stage on the stove and poured a bit over the surface before baking with mixed results. I've dipped a cookie in a number of different sugars but still can't get that crystalline almost brulee top any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Well why don't you just make the cookie right and then if you you know want you can coat it with something and then just cook tweel, right? Which you know to to me a florentine's like a thick twilight right like it's butter, sugar, uh it's butter sugar and like not much else, right?
+
+[39:53] Like what's what's in those things? Like uh those crispy Swedish caramel cookies slash twil dough slash florentines. It's basically it caramelizes, spreads out the water that's in the butter or whatever else is in it like bubbles and you get this kind of bubbly crackly surface. I think that's what we're talking about. And one way to sandwich that with something else is to put after it cools to put chocolate underneath it so that there's a barrier, right?
+
+[40:16] Like that's how the that's how the the drumsticks are made. So a drumstick, like you take a waffle cone, you coat the inside of it with chocolate. And by the way, the Nestle Corporation, for as much as I dislike what they have done, they they had an interesting thing on their website that says we realize that some of our cones were getting a little bit soggy in a standard freezer. So we've increased the size of the chocolate nugget in the bottom of the cone to counteract this problem. So there you go.
+
+[40:39] So you need a sort of sort of barrier. So chocolate forms that kind of barrier. But if you're gonna eat it relatively quickly, I would say this. If you've ever cooked, uh, my mom used to call them Swedish cookies, right? And so they're like they they get huge, like a like a twil in the in the in the oven and crack, they have nuts in them too, these ones.
+
+[40:57] And then you can roll them into a tube while they're hot, and then they get hard and crispy as they dry. What if you just made your cookies, then made the twils, and while they were hot, drape them over the other cookie. See what I'm saying? Yeah. Then it's gonna set up, and then you should be good to go.
+
+[41:13] You know what I mean? I think that's the answer. I wonder if, depending on the consistency of both goes, you could almost bake them simultaneously, like uh creme crock a lay. Well, except for the I mean, like, yeah, I just don't know. Maybe you could try it.
+
+[41:30] You know what I mean? But the whole thing about the twil is that those things is that they're very, very runny. They get very, very liquid. And so they go from being like a ball to like really flat and big. You know what I mean?
+
+[41:41] Or what if you have like a bottom layer of the crackling of the floorantine, and then you put little dough on top. And then you're in. I don't think it would flash off. I mean, you could do the reverse, you could put it underneath. So in other words, like I think you need to bake them separately because they bake in different regimes.
+
+[41:58] Like that's the thing. They they are a different style of product. So I think you bake it once, but the nice thing about these things is that they are relatively uh, you know, they are uh what's the word I'm looking for? They're they're appliable when they're when they're hot, right? So like you know, you you can use that to your use that to your advantage because like like other you know caramelli and candy things, they they set up as they as they cool.
+
+[42:22] Uh all right. Working backwards through the questions. Oh, actually, no, that was forwards. All right, here we go. Uh forward.
+
+[42:30] Oh, yeah, by the way, you want to talk about uh Patreon and what people can do, why they might want to do it, and uh Rich C and all the other great stuff. Yeah, yeah. Um check out uh Patreon.com slash cooking issues to see what uh you know to one sign up for the podcast, see what kind of different membership levels we got. We got from free to a couple different uh tiered paid ones. Um being a member gets you, well, should get you prioritized questions.
+
+[42:57] Um but discounts with uh some of the great people that we work with, including Matt at Kitchen Arts and Letters, uh Nick Coleman uh from Grove and Vine, a whole other great roster of people. Um you get access to the Discord with other like-minded listeners, uh, get to share cooking experiments, all these other kinds of things. So yeah, check it out. Uh Patreon.com slash cooking issues. All right.
+
+[43:18] Uh and if you like this podcast, go to wherever your podcasts are given and try to rate us a high thing. It helps us out. It helps us help you. Uh all right. So um We have another guest in two weeks.
+
+[43:30] Two weeks or one week. We've next next the 22nd, we've got Chef David Stanridge from the shift uh shipwright's daughter in Mystic. The following week, we've got Alice and John from uh Hanamakjoli out here in Brooklyn. Um, and working on getting a couple couple other people as well. So Did you know that Connecticut is a small state, best state?
+
+[43:51] Yeah. Love Connecticut. Yeah. Right? Yeah.
+
+[43:53] Yeah. Someone said, seriously, someone said to me, Does Connecticut have anything besides pizza? Oh man. And I was like, you know what? Delease.
+
+[43:58] Like I was like, you know what? Yeah, how long do you have? Yeah. You know what I mean? Morons.
+
+[44:08] All right. Rock Baker writes in uh I found a YouTube video on an existing conditions, which is my old bar. Uh existing conditions, non-alcoholic cocktail called serendipity. Please tell me how to make this drink. So that was a non-alk drink that was um a stirred, uh, sorry, a built drink.
+
+[44:25] So in other words, it's supposed to drink like an old fashioned. And uh the spec was Bobby Murphy's spec, who's uh at Illis. And uh it was uh now I don't know if this is accurate. I got it off the old database, but I don't know it, you know, the actual database that we used, right, at the bar. Uh I don't know if it's a hundred percent accurate whether we added other stuff, but it's fundamentally uh one part uh so like 30 mils of uh clarified uh passion fruit puree, we used Goya.
+
+[44:53] Uh this was before all of this stuff took place, and but wherever you landed, we used Goya and we tried higher end ones and the drink didn't taste as good, right? So it was one of my uh one of the many times I've been shown that just because something is better on its own doesn't make it better in a drink, right? So or better in a in a cooked environment. So uh uh clarified uh Goya passion fruit puree and 60 of clarified tomatoes. We used Campbell's tomato in a in a um what's it called?
+
+[45:27] In the pl the plastic, not the cans, like the plastic juice bottles, Campbell's, right? And so we've tried tried a different one and it wasn't the same. I didn't. When I was a kid, I grew up drinking Sacramento tomato juice out of the can that you needed a church key to open, right? That's what we had in my house all the time.
+
+[45:45] Maybe because my mom was from Sacramento, I don't know. You know what I mean? But like that's what we used to have. But for this we use, and you're like, why didn't you make your own tomato juice? Well, because your own tomato juice probably sucks.
+
+[45:56] Like honestly, your own tomato juice is probably the worst, right? First of all, did you take the time to get all the skins off of because the skins are bitter? Like, did you have tomatoes at their peak of ripeness? You know what? Just go to the people that make tomato juice.
+
+[46:09] You know, like like Nastasia likes to say about pasta. Nastania likes to say this about a lot of things that you do too. Yeah, but I mean, like, you know, someone's like, someone's like, uh, you know, I I made this thing. It's called the wheel, but mine's not really round. Go to the wheel people.
+
+[46:24] You know what I mean? Anyway. Stas, you agree with me finally on this one, right? Yeah. Yeah, go to the freaking wheel people.
+
+[46:32] Uh, and then uh to that, add like, you know, so the recipe says for that, one gram of glycerin. I know for a fact we added more. Right. And then uh salt, saline solution. And I think sometimes we would adjust the sugar up or down depending on exactly how it worked.
+
+[46:51] But the the whole point of that drink, the whole point of any non-alcoholic uh drink on a rock like that, is that it has to start out very viscous. Uh and it also has to have something in it that's not unpleasant, but that's weird enough to stop you from pounding it. And so tomato, so we have a drink on the on the menu now, which I had as my working title, tomato, tomato bullsh, you know, sugar honey iced tea. And uh now that's the menu name of it because no one thought of a new name for it. And so because tomato is a very good, uh, clarified tomato is a very good thing to slow you down.
+
+[47:26] Because it it's like it's good, but it's weird enough that you're you're not gonna go pound it because then it's not like a cocktail, it's like a juice shot, which is not what we're looking for. So the tomato and the passion fruit together made it slow enough to drink, and the glycerin made it viscous enough to last over the uh dilution in the we also put a uh grape, I'm gonna want to say grapefruit twist in it. Um that's what I'm gonna want to say. Although, because that's just what I would add, but I don't actually remember, but I think that's what it was. Uh Azuo 2 writes in, I'd like to learn some general strategies for how to convert a very flavorful, salty condiment into an appropriate marinade for proteins.
+
+[48:03] I like how you just say you don't just call out the condiment, like it's like a secret condiment. You don't want to call out. You know what I mean? Like, is it that you're embarrassed or that you don't want someone else to take this secret secret salt? But then Azu does mention actually the condiment.
+
+[48:17] For example, the ingredient that inspired this question was gocha-chang. And thinking about how I would try to make gocha chang ribs. In general, it seems the answer is to find something to thin your ingredient out, but it seems like a pretty wide space to choose from. Soy sauce, sesame oil, and mirin, for example, would all help to uh get to a to a marinade, marinade. Uh, but they all you ever used to watch Chichin Chong?
+
+[48:38] Yeah. Eggs and bacon, marmalade. Anyway, uh, but they all contribute something different uh to the mix. Also, totally get it if the answer is just pick uh some flavorful liquids in the ballpark of where you're starting from and fiddle with the ratios until it tastes good. That's good advice, Azu.
+
+[48:55] That's good advice right there. I mean, you've given yourself some good advice. Any general advice would be appreciated. Well, I mean, look, I mean, gochu chang is not extraordinarily salty, so it's not gonna be bad if you water it down with something that has a little bit of a uh of a salt level to it. And you also gotta remember salt is good because the flavors in the in the gocha chang are not gonna penetrate very far into the meat unless you needle it.
+
+[49:18] First of all, everyone who's anti-freaking, and you don't get any penetration, maybe well, like marinate because they're testing it on things like chicken breast that don't have any holes in it, right? So like meats that have a lot of gaps, meats that are very thin, meats that have been needled, like these can all get flavors on the inside of them. But you know, whatever. Take it where you want. Um, you know, some sugar, some salt.
+
+[49:41] Uh I mean, you could just use water. It doesn't have to be flavorful. Like, and then adjust the salt level to to where you want it to be. If you want it to taste like gochu chang, then I would have it be almost entirely gocha chang. And if you wanted to, you know, thin it, you could thin it with water and gochu.
+
+[50:00] You know what I mean? You could buy gochu and add that to the water and make that and you know get it a little thinner and salt, right? You just need to get your salt and sugar levels where you want. That's one. What do you any anyone else say?
+
+[50:09] I do have some feedback. Okay. Um again, if a zoo or anybody else has ever done like equilibrium brining, and then you're mixing all these ingredients. You know, you want to look at the nutrition label, you take the sodium content per serving size, and you times it by 2.5. And that'll give you the actual sodium chloride salt equivalent.
+
+[50:44] Yep. That is true. Uh but I don't know they're I don't know that they're gonna they're not, I don't think they're pickling it, right? They're just we're not gonna well, I don't know. They want like a marinade that's roughly one percent salt equilibrium for their ribs, and they're using a bunch of different ingredients that also contain salt.
+
+[50:59] I don't think like math it out. I used to know how many days it would take to get to equilibrium on something like that. But ribs are so weird because of all the bone and and all the fat. Hard to calculate. Um I'm just thinking general.
+
+[51:16] Uh Wenrik writes in, hey Dave, would you consider manufacturing kitchen aid attachments that actually reach the bottom of the bowl? No. No, no. Stas, would you consider making that? No.
+
+[51:29] No, no. You'd be my you know, Winrick will be our first customer, which I totally appreciate. But on the other hand, I'd only have the three customers, and then we would get ripped off by our own factory, and then you know, we would have invested, you know, a hundred grand tooling and a year of our lives, because even like if I told those fools now, make a paper clip, they'd be like, it's a year. I'm like, it's a paper clip. They're like, it's a year.
+
+[51:53] You know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah. No, it's it's a year and three months. Yeah. And it doesn't make it by new, it doesn't make it by Thanksgiving, Stas.
+
+[52:01] And in fact, not even that, they're not even gonna make it before Chinese New Year, right or wrong? Right. Right. Always. Always.
+
+[52:07] By the way, people, listen up. Depending, it's not a political statement. Depending on how this election goes, buy all your stuff from China now. You know what I mean? Like, seriously, as someone who makes stuff in China, and the Stas who will back this up, like if the tariffs go up to 60% again, we're hanging it up.
+
+[52:29] We're done. You know what I mean? Like, that's it. It's over. You know what I mean?
+
+[52:33] Because it's either 60% or we take another three years and find a manufacturer here that will build the spinzall for four times as much money, right? There is no in-between for small businesses like us. It does not exist, right? So I'm sorry, there is no way for us to quote unquote make this spinzall in America, right? So, like, not for what we sell it for now, which people already think what we sell for is unreasonable, right?
+
+[52:57] So, depending on how it goes, buy all your gear now. Um, speaking of, they still haven't picked up our freaking spinzalls from the dock. They're like, did you know there was a strike? Yes! I knew there was a strike.
+
+[53:13] Yeah. You know what I mean? It's over. Yeah. It's been over.
+
+[53:17] And then the guy literally, I feel like it's someone just like on the couch smoking a cigarette, being like, it's busy. I'm not gonna go till it mellows out. What? It was shut for two days. How unmellow can it be?
+
+[53:34] You know what it is, Toss? They literally don't give a rat's behind about us. That's what it is. But you know what? Modernist Panshi is pretty staying on top of them, which is really nice.
+
+[53:45] I know. Thank God somebody else is staying on top of it instead of us. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, not just because we're bad at it, but I mean, just because thank God.
+
+[53:53] Like, you know what I mean? Anyway. Yeah. All right. So Wenrik also adds, uh, sorry about that rant about making things.
+
+[54:03] Uh Wenrik also adds, also, I bought the rice polisher. So uh, you know, I don't know, a month or two ago, I mentioned that I bought a rice polisher on uh Amazon that is in it's Japanese and it's from Japan and it's built for Japanese current, but it works fine in the US, right? Works fine. And uh what it does is is it has a little basket and a little like spin, like a little paddle, and it just you put the theoretically you put rice into it and it boom and it like almost abrades the outside of the rice to take off the coating. So you can either take brown rice and make it into white rice, or you can make it into semi-brown rice.
+
+[54:41] It has a bunch of different settings to see how much it's gonna, or you can just take a little off the outside of your rice to like quote unquote freshen it up if that's something you're worried about. But I have it to remove the very outer coating of uh bran in wheat, right? So I use it when I'm baking bread to take knock off the outer coating, either in addition to as a replacement for sifting, because uh you can remove as much bran as you want by keep you keep milling it until you remove enough stuff that it, you know, it's almost all the brain is gone, and then run it through your your mill. Or uh you could take just the outer outer bit, which has a lot of the hairs, which some people say are very detrimental for baking loaf uh um loaf uh volume. Anyway, okay.
+
+[55:23] Uh I bought the rice polisher and it works fantastically. Do you always do just two white rice cycles or sometimes more? Uh I noticed on red fife, which is a wheat, which by the way can be either spring or winter wheat, such a pain in the butt. Uh I did it, did I tell you guys I did a test on so winter wheat is wheat that you plant uh you know in the fall before after harvest, before the the snow sets in, and that wheat needs the overwintering to really sprout well and do well germinate. So that is wheats that are grown in non really harsh environments.
+
+[55:58] Uh spring wheats are wheats that you plant and sow in the same season. So you wait for the frost to be over, you plant your wheat, it grows and you harvest it. So a lot of the a lot, you know, all of the very northern, like Manitoba style wheats are uh often spring wheats because it's harsh out there, right? So red fife is one of those weird wheats that can be grown either as a spring wheat or as uh a winter wheat. In general, spring wheats don't taste for the given variety, spring wheats are not supposed to taste as good as their winter varieties, but have like a very high kind of protein ratio.
+
+[56:31] They can be kind of harsher. And it was the, it was those spring wheats that took a long time to learn to mill properly to make the bread flour that we all use. Like can't Canadian style and northern American you know, northern Northern America style like bread wheats. Anyway, uh I digress a little bit except for I did a side-by-side test of red fife as a winter and as a spring wheat, and you know what I didn't notice? A difference.
+
+[56:54] So uh all right. Uh I noticed on red fife that there's still a decent amount of bran left after two cycles. Yeah, I'm trying to keep like a good amount of bran. What I don't want to lose, and the problem with the number of cycles, if you look in the chaff at the bottom, you'll see that um it depends on the wheat style, actually, wheat type, but they tend to degerminate. And I really like the flavor of wheat germ.
+
+[57:15] And so, like what I like, what I want to do is rub off like, you know, a good, like a chunk of the bran on the outside, but I don't really want it degerminated. So I'm I'm really kind of running the cycles to try to surf around that. Right now I'm running, I use the number four cups, which is four goes of rice, but I'm I'm adding 666, the devil's number of wheat to it. And I'm running it now usually at actually eight. And I'll run it once if I'm gonna sift, and I'll run it twice if I'm if I'm not.
+
+[57:40] Um Garrett wants to know about Contra Solariac crumpet. How does that work? It's so good. Are these traditional or are they modern crumpets? Modern crumpets.
+
+[57:49] Real crumpet is a short thing cooked in a like uh almost like an English muffin on a pan. Uh maybe, I guess they can bake them, but they're short and they're like kind of like bubbly on top. These are cooked like a quick bread in an oven and they're taller, so they're like non-traditional crumpet. Uh I'll tell you this. I don't really know the recipe I can ask, but uh I know that they cook the celery root beforehand.
+
+[58:10] They they like pre-roast the celery root before they make it, and then they make it into a quick bread, almost like banana bread. There you have it. Uh Ron Baker writes in seeking a way to preserve our wines by the glass bottle at my restaurant. Any suggestions besides the core van system? I don't have any rest uh suggestions other than the core van system.
+
+[58:27] Uh, but you know, I don't know. There, there you go. And in the minute I have left, how about this? Useless tool review. Yeah, I bought a useless kitchen tool, but I'm here to review it for.
+
+[58:38] I bought the OXO pineapple core. And so what this is, I was at a thrift store and it was like four bucks. And you you turn it in, you shove it into, you cut the top and bottom off a pineapple, and you shove it on, and it cores, and you you go and you put you twist it through the pineapple and it cuts it into one long spiral ring, almost like the apple core thing does for apples and or potatoes. And I was like, I'm not buying this. This is stupid.
+
+[59:03] And then when I picked it up, I realized I had a ratchet in the handle so that you just go, and you don't have to let go of the pineapple to do it, right? And I was like, oh yeah, for four bucks. I own this. I own this now. So I took it home and I cored my first pineapple with it yesterday.
+
+[59:19] And here's what I'm gonna say: it wastes a lot more pineapple than I do just cutting it myself. However, if you were doing it in a restaurant environment or if you juice a lot, right? I would put the pineapple into a container because you're gonna, you know, cut the top and bottom off. Put it in a container because you're gonna make a lot of juice, like, you know, basically punching your way through this pineapple. Core through it, right?
+
+[59:41] Push it down, and then juice the skins and the core and the residue to get the extra yield out of it. And then, meh, not a bad idea. Maybe next week if I have time, I'll talk about the two new flour mills that I've been using. Uh we'll be doing some bread tests on the Royal Lee Organic Mill and the Red Cell Mill versus the Como. So we can talk about that next week on cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues Coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City News Stance Studios. Joined as usual with John behind me. How are you doing, John? Doing great, thanks.
+
+[0:21] Yeah, I got Joel uh Joe Hazen rocking the panels. How are you doing, Joe? Uh, I was running 1K tone there. I'm sorry. That was 1K, that's what it was?
+
+[0:28] I was 1K. You know what it sounded like? It sounded like in the shining when whenever people get stabbed in the shining and Danny, and it's like that. Yeah, I'm so sorry. It's a great movie, though, The Shining.
+
+[0:39] Uh and we got a full house today, right? We got in the uh West Coast, we got some Jackie Molecules. How you doing? Yup, I'm good. Yeah?
+
+[0:47] We got Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing? Good. You haven't hammered anyone in a long time that you can talk about on air. You're keeping all of your murder secret nowadays.
+
+[0:59] I guess so. You know what I mean? Speaking of speaking of murder, I know we're not supposed to talk about rock stars too much. We'll talk about it more later, though, unfortunately. But uh, you hear that one of the people from Mr.
+
+[1:09] Bungle like murdered his girlfriend and got conveyed. How crazy is that? Whoa. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[1:14] Unrelated. Yeah. What? Say who with buzz. Who?
+
+[1:19] Mr. the Mr. Bunk. It wasn't Mike Patton. It was like the saxophonist.
+
+[1:23] Oh, is it saxophonist, yeah. So my cousin James was like, barely a member of the band. Saxophonist is is that that basically means murderer, right? So our friend Pat, we're gonna send him that text and be like, you know, saxophone equals murder. At least in a rock song, saxophone equals murder, maybe.
+
+[1:38] Although I happen I happen to like rock sacks. You guys? Rocksacks? Anyone? Anyone?
+
+[1:44] Not so much. No? What about funk sacks? Better. Yeah.
+
+[1:48] I don't really like the sac. What about like a freaking berry or an auto sac? You have to hear it. Jack has to hear it every single day across now. Yeah, he hears that like uh that ridiculous like gigantophone that sounds like a like a dying elephant, right?
+
+[1:59] It's like the biggest saxophone on earth. Yeah, two backs. Tubacks. We gotta get uh we gotta get a jingle recorded with the two backs if Pat will do that for us. And in the upper upper, upper, upper, upper, upper left, uh holding it down uh on Vancouver Island.
+
+[2:17] Quinn, how you doing? I'm doing all right. Which you still haven't hooked uh the big fish of Vancouver Island. You got haven't gotten the Pamela Anderson. No, I guess I gotta start working on that again.
+
+[2:29] Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, like, you know, she could be live in your studio. Think about it. She could.
+
+[2:35] Yeah. Anyway. And today's special guest in the studio from Ship's Right's daughter in Mystic. Mystic, Mystic Connecticut chef, David Standridge. First time on the show.
+
+[2:45] How you doing? I'm doing great. Yeah? I love Mystic. For those of you that don't know, uh my in-laws are in Mystic.
+
+[2:51] So I've been going to Mystic now for, I don't know, like 20, actually, a long, long, longer than that, probably a 30s something years, because my my wife's uh aunt and uncle like are from there from forever. So been going, love mystic. Cool. That was back when Johns was there. Dude, Mystic used to be like a very Mystic Pizza, which by the way, whatever.
+
+[3:14] Yeah. Like people still every so Mystic, so the way Mystic works is it's it's not a one street town, but there is the one street that everything's on. Yep, right? And there's this bridge on it, and the bridge just you know, randomly. It's the the mystic, get this bascule.
+
+[3:29] No one knows what the hell a bascule is, right? It's the it's the mystic Bascule bridge. Do you know what a bascule is? I thought it was a type of bridge, like a counter. You ever seen a different bascule bridge?
+
+[3:37] No. Just the mystic Bascule. There's more of them though. Yeah. Anyway, it causes a giant traffic jam, but like just up the hill towards the church where I got married is Mystic Pizza that was used in the Julia Roberts movie.
+
+[3:48] And still to this day, umpteen billion years later, there's always someone like get my picture in front of Mystic Pizza, right? Always. That's people still associate Mystic with Mystic Pizza. It's really fresh. Which is crazy, right?
+
+[4:02] And like most of the uh most of the a lot of the old school businesses in Mystic are gone. The overpriced, uh, the overpriced surplus store is still there. It is. Yeah. It'll never go away.
+
+[4:12] No. It was thoroughly in there. When you go in there with a kid, they don't touch anything. You know what I mean? Like it's like, you know, the funny thing about Mystic is like, even though Mystic is a fancy place, it's got a working class, military, like seagoing Coast Guard kind of, you know, definitely underpinning of the people who are actually there.
+
+[4:32] You know, and for a year, so much it was blue collar and very working class, and it was not fancy ever. Yeah. There was like rich people lived on the hill, but like Mystic was like a little bit, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. Down to earth. Yeah, and there's kind of there's also there's two mystics, depending on whether you're anyway.
+
+[4:47] But like uh, but you know what I'm saying? And I like towns like that. Like, like the fancy weasels come in, yep, you know, they take their pictures, they get out. And then and then the people that are there are there. Absolutely.
+
+[4:58] We're one of the people who are there. We uh yeah, yeah. All right. So uh what do we got going food wise? Now, John, we missed two weeks ago.
+
+[5:10] We didn't talk about it. And it's gonna be it's good fun because now, you know, we got uh two working chefs on the on the show can talk about it. John just did a relaunch. I went to his friends and family now three weeks ago. I forgot to talk about it the first week.
+
+[5:21] Second week we had to cancel last week. So how's it going? It's been going well. Uh yeah, we sold a lot of food on Saturday, I think the record food sale since we've been opened, which was really good. Um and yeah, people seem to be receptive to it.
+
+[5:33] But it is like I was telling uh David before you got on, it's been hard to get our regulars to think of Temperance as a place for dinner rather than a place for snacks, as which is what we've been for the last three years. Um so I think you know, slowly changing that, but otherwise it's uh it's going well. So do you have a special menu that says you're not a regular anymore? It's a new place. No, we don't do that.
+
+[5:56] It's always hard to change your format. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, no, definitely. And it's hard to get the staff to kind of change their mentalities about that kind of stuff as well. But it's uh it's been an interesting challenge and something that I'm not that I wasn't excited about what I was doing at the you know, at when it was a wine bar, but now it's a lot more personal.
+
+[6:15] It's you know, things that I not that again, not that I didn't stand behind the food I did it when it was wine bar, but now it's just again, it's a lot more personal. Everything's kind of an ode to my dad, so it's something I'm taking a lot more pride in and just a lot more invested in. It's been a lot more fun. Sounds like uh you're not standing behind the food you did before. Sure, sure.
+
+[6:31] That's like the time we went, uh Nastasi and I went to uh Claw in California second time. And Patterson goes to us, he goes, How is the food? It was great. He's like, What about the first time? Also great.
+
+[6:44] I'm so much better now. You're an idiot. We're like, dude, dude. Yeah. Remember that, Stas?
+
+[6:55] Yeah, yeah. Weird, weird, weird. Uh so speaking of not uh breaking with the past, for you know, for those of you that I don't know, that's the first time you're listening to this show, you know. John, when he's saying he's dad, dad, Belgian. Uh John, the only the only uh Flemish Belgian dude that only speaks French right yeah kind of weak yeah yep admittedly yeah yeah your your dad could speak though right yes he could yeah yeah uh you know family you know fought the Germans during the war the whole the whole nine both wars in fact right yep and uh so he's you know switch to a more Belgique menu you know but whatever the however you how do you say Belgian in uh in Flemish you don't even know how to say Belgian B-E-L-G-I-E but I don't know how to pronounce it properly I know how to spell it wow an embarrassment to his family nice yeah you know say what you like about John he likes to take on the language of the oppressor at any time I hate you uh so one of the things I go in there I'm like oh he's he got the fries fries are always good but he still has the small size small gauge yeah go bigger gauge on the fries my guy used to bigger gauge to cowards you know what I mean yeah yeah literally they ply me with so much wine I'm at friends and family I'm eating everything's delicious my only comment Jen my wife was there with me she's writing a lot of thoughtful comments blah blah blah I'm like used to pick a fry as if I was a helly comment on the whole thing anyway uh you know what I didn't have that uh because I you know I can only eat so much and we were only at we were a two-top I didn't have the steak of poiv with the green peppercorn green.
+
+[8:40] Yep next time good huh? Yeah I think so yeah yeah proud of that one yeah yeah just come back some other time. Any surprises that you didn't think would be hits at R or vice versa? Um the leek, I don't know. I have a leaks dish.
+
+[8:53] It's one of those like more conceptual kind of things, but I still think it's tasty like I don't know, it's based on like the the dishes perch a flamands of the white asparagus with the clarified butter, uh chopped hard boiled egg, lemon, and parsley. Um I sort of rethought it with uh as a cold dish with a lemon vinaigrette, cold poached leeks, uh chopped almonds, cured egg yolk, and then fried parsley on top. And I like it, but it's I don't know, it's definitely been one of those more hitter miss things. Well, what's the name of the dish? Maybe that's the problem.
+
+[9:24] I forget. Leeks a la flamande. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. People also let's I don't know, like I think selling people on the cold cold on the leeks dish, period, but then also like a cold one is also like imagine if I just said like what do you get?
+
+[9:37] Onions. Like no one's like, oh, a leek, and then if they don't know what a leek is, they look it up, they're like, oh, it's slick and yeah, onion. And then they're like, onions? You know what I mean? Yeah, true.
+
+[9:48] Did you see the new Dan Barber garlic? I heard about it. I know it hooked me up. Big deal. Oh, I have garlic.
+
+[9:54] Heavily promoting that. Oh, yeah. I believe that. Tell me about it. All right, Quinn, tell me about the someone tell me about the garlic.
+
+[10:02] I I just harvested my my crop two days ago. It okay. What the hell is it? It's like a I would say it looks like a big scallion with but the um top is like flat and sort of a bit more papery in texture. The top, the the root end or the other, what do you flat?
+
+[10:29] The greens, the greens. Okay. Okay. But it's supposed to be essentially flavor wise, a cross between garlic and leek. And but the entire plant is edible.
+
+[10:42] Like the tops, the green tops don't get like super flavory. You mean like no matter how long you let it go? Apparently, again, we're going to be able to do that. That's something what's the word I'm looking for? Don't believe.
+
+[10:58] Yeah. They don't get as big as regular leeks. Okay. You know how like some onion grass is poisonous? I used to go eat that crap anyway.
+
+[11:08] Like apparently some onion grass is poisonous. But I used to rip onion grass up, sniff it, and then like chew on that stuff. Wild carrots, also those things. Oh, though, those will kill you. Yeah.
+
+[11:16] Yeah. Please eat those in asked you. Yeah, yeah. It says a lot about us as a general style of people. It's a generation of foragers.
+
+[11:25] So how was your first batch of garlic? Well, we definitely needed to grow more because we had the entire harvest. We got a lot of greens, and we're dehydrating those to make like a powder. But like all of like the bottom white part was one batch of soup. Alright.
+
+[11:47] Wait, let's say it's a cross between a leek and a garlic. You know what I can add to a soup? Yeah. Yeah. Leeks and also garlic.
+
+[12:00] But I mean, it was you know what doesn't taste like either of those things? A shallot. You know what I'm saying? It's like if something's only thing is it tastes like two incredibly readily available things. And we're gonna put it in an inherent mélange situation, like a soup.
+
+[12:18] Then does it need to exist? Well, I also think part of the thing is that again, it is that sort of leafy leaky flavor. So because it's a bit smaller and a bit more tender, again, it's that you know, whole utilization thing. Right, but this sounds like something you want briefly sauteed and served as a side so that you can enjoy it essentially. Well, I mean, in other words, like if I'm paying a billion dollars or having to grow something myself, right?
+
+[12:48] And its only thing is that it tastes like these two readily available, easily cooked items that I would want to serve it as its own McGill on its own to highlight its thingness, its specialness. Yes, that's a that's a good way to put it, David. For those of you that can't see us, because you can't unless you're on the Patreon. David is David from Chipwright's daughter, and Dave is me from here. Yeah.
+
+[13:16] Anyway, uh, but you liked it. So you're gonna make some. Why don't you just have some just saute some up? What do you think? Oil or butter?
+
+[13:22] Well, again, again, we again we used all the white part for the soup. You could you harvested every last one, you left nothing? Yeah. It was time. They were getting, you know, it was, you know, it's getting cold up here.
+
+[13:34] You didn't saute even one to see what the texture was like on its own? Quinn, quinn, quinn. Call it call up, uh, call up Danny Boy Barber. Call up Danny Boy Barber, he'll ship you some, maybe. Baldor has it.
+
+[13:47] Yeah. Do they? Oh yeah. It's out there. Dan Barber Boy.
+
+[13:52] All right. Uh I've never tried it. You tried it, David? No. No.
+
+[13:55] Because I think it's just garlic and leeks. It's got a good name. What's the what movie? Is that like a zoolander thing? Sounds like uh what's the one of his looks sounds like Garlic?
+
+[14:09] Oh. It's like blue steel and the other one. Yeah, I can't remember. There was a little commercial for garlic though that Dan Barber had on his Instagram that was like with his daughter. And basically his daughter was saying that she would rather have garlic than ice cream.
+
+[14:22] That's a weird kid. Or lactose intolerant. Could be. Yeah, but I mean that was great. Like she's incredibly lactose intolerant.
+
+[14:31] She's like, you know what I would rather have? Garlic, because the the other one rips up my insides. You know what I mean? In fact, I'd rather take a hammer to the toe than ice cream because it just tears me up. That sounds like a it sounds like a poor Landia sketch or something.
+
+[14:46] Yeah. Yeah. Uh all right, all right. Nice. Uh so uh what else we got going on, food wise?
+
+[14:52] Anything else in the in the past week, food wise? I'll tell I can't I'm gonna force someone to tell the food story. Nastasia the hammer Lopez. Nastasia the hammer Lopez for an unnamed location that is uh run as like a you know basically, you know, an in-house catering thing, right? So I I believe it's union, I don't know, but like I know that they're all about like like raking money in no matter who they're gonna rake money in, from the talent, from the guests, from whomever.
+
+[15:19] They're just gonna rake. They're a big money rake. And Nastasi was tasked on getting some decent food up in that piece. And what happens, Doz? I showed you the invoice that the artist was being charged, and I was like, this doesn't seem right.
+
+[15:33] And I was and I was supposed to negotiate the prices. And so for trail mix, it was like six dollars a head, you know. And what was said trail mix? It was those those good and gather wow. Really cargo.
+
+[15:48] For real, for real. In Los Angeles, in Los Angeles, a venue went to Target and bought Good and Gathered trail Mix. I don't even think that's the best of the supermarket trail mixes. I mean, Trader Joe's is better for snacks. Yeah.
+
+[16:04] For sure they are. I mean, when they're good. Yeah. Trader Joe's is like hit or miss. Trader Joe's is like, you know what I'm going to do?
+
+[16:09] I'm going to experiment on you. See whether you like this. If you like it, you buy it. If not, you know what I mean? They're they're the Moto restaurant of snack mix.
+
+[16:16] Like some of this stuff, this is going to try it on you. You're their experiment. It sells or it doesn't. But when they hit, they hit really well, I think. The Trader Joe's.
+
+[16:23] No? I never go. No? Never? Do they have one up there, Mystic?
+
+[16:27] There's one somewhere. I don't, I don't even know. It's bad kids. It's literally across the street from. Really?
+
+[16:34] You're a Costco guy. Oh, definitely. Yeah. Costco doesn't have it. I don't need it.
+
+[16:38] Oh, wow. Wow. Honestly, in my whole life. Yeah. You should go.
+
+[16:42] You should go to uh like coastal Alaska, where like everyone just goes to the one Costco and then resells it to everyone else. Oh, that's great. Yeah. Great business plan. Yeah, you go to like a boat, you go whatever they're whatever they call a bodega in Juno and it's all Kirkland products.
+
+[17:00] They're making their little slice on the slice. You know what I mean? Definitely. Speaking of slice on the slice, uh, we have a unit of spinzalls right now for sale in Modernist Pantries Warehouse. So you can go buy your spinzall 2.0s.
+
+[17:14] And I'm just gonna say this depending on how it goes in a couple of weeks. If the uh uh this might be the last batch, if the tariffs go up to 60%, it means that the units will cost. Get this, folks. You ready for it? You ready for it?
+
+[17:26] If that happens, they're gonna cost six hundred dollars more a piece. All right, six hundred dollars more apiece, which means we're probably gonna go out of business or just sell entirely to foreigners because we just won't be able to afford to bring them in anymore. So now's a good time, right, Sauz. Yeah. You know what?
+
+[17:45] You know what's a hilarious thought? The idea that if there's a 60% tariff on spinzalls being brought in from China, that Nastasia and I are just gonna be like, you know what? Let's make this in the United States. I never thought of that. I never thought of trying to make it in the oh, idiots.
+
+[18:02] There's no way we can make that in the United States for any reasonable amount of money. The tooling alone would cost us a million bucks. What? Yeah, how much would the cost to the customer if we made them here? Well, okay.
+
+[18:14] So like we would probably, even though it's already made, right? Even though it's already an existing product, we would have to go through certification again in the US. That's probably 50 grand, which is nothing. It's probably a million dollars in tooling. The issue is is that because we're only gonna make between two and three thousand of them a year for the foreseeable forever, right?
+
+[18:32] You know, uh, everyone's just gonna laugh at us. So it's gonna have to be built fundamentally by hand. And the United States can only really win when you either own the factories, like Vitamix owns their factory, so they can make stuff here in the United States, right? Or when you're making something in a large enough quantity that can be fully automated, right? Or it's such a big ticket item that you can fold the inherent cost of doing business into the vehicle uh into the thing like cars, right?
+
+[18:57] So it's like this is why nothing that you buy, you know, that is uh uh, you know, an electrico domestico thing that you have in your kitchen is made here because how are you gonna do that? Uh I have a like a uh flour mill, right? So the flour mills that I normally you know recommend to people are very expensive already. They're $400. They're made in Germany, and but they're always out of stock.
+
+[19:19] And I think they're probably losing money because they're only selling it for like a minimal charge over what it probably costs them to make it. That's como or mock Mill, right? The ones that are made in the United States, like the royal Lee Organics, I think is like $1,200. And the Red Cell, right? Which I also have a used one of, is like I think like $1,200 or $1,300, something like that, maybe $800.
+
+[19:39] But uh, and it's got big old industrial motor on it, it's good unit, but it's like no one wants to pay that much when they could buy and their customer services apparently rancid, but like no one wants to buy from them because they have like they have to make them to order because they don't have the money to make them in bulk because who does, right? And so making them to order, people have to wait six weeks to put their money down. It's a nightmare, right? So we can't do it. It can't be done, right?
+
+[20:02] Not for we would have to charge probably three grand a unit at that point. Go buy a freaking, you know, four-liter, you know, bench top. You know what I'm saying? It's like it's absurd, it's a joke. Anyway, just that's all I'm saying.
+
+[20:17] Just get it now, because you never never know. You never know. Uh, and if you're rich enough, right? If you're a big enough business and you're rich enough, then you have friends in government, and they're like literally, if you look at the HTS, the harmonized trade schedule or whatever that whatever it is, HTC, harmony trade code, whatever it is. What is it?
+
+[20:36] S or C stars. All right. What anyway, if you if you look at it, there's these bizarre carve outs. They're like, if you make a vehicle with three wheels where one is on a pivot that's basically they have a carve out that it's like one company. I'm like, when you actually look at it, you're like, oh, that company doesn't have to pay a tariff.
+
+[20:57] It's a it's it's scam. It's somebody's buddy, yeah. It's somebody's buddy. Totally. All right.
+
+[21:01] Well, then, you know, nobody can hear my rant over uh what it's like being a small business in this country. Because it's it's not just restaurants that suck as a small business, it's any small business sucks here, right? Yeah, I mean, I can only speak for restaurants. All right. Uh also, uh, this Sunday, I think I'm going to be so I I'm a member of a local garden here.
+
+[21:22] M Fundicalunga. It's on, it's between um Christie and Forsyth, between Delancey and whatever the next street is up Rivington. I'll be there for Halloween. Come check out a community garden in uh New York between I'm I think I'm gonna be there between noon and three. I don't know if I'm gonna have candy because all my full-size candy bars are for my own house.
+
+[21:42] I already have two hundred full-size candy bars ready for Halloween. Full size is the only fun size. You guys uh you guys have ho uh you guys have candy at the restaurant for when people come by? We do, actually. Yeah.
+
+[21:52] Not at the house, but at the restaurant. What's the go? What's the go to? What's the city? I don't even know.
+
+[21:55] That's not my department. I just get whatever. You can't do full size at a restaurant, though. No, it's insane. Yeah, it's not full size at home.
+
+[22:02] I like the almond joy. That's my favorite home. Really? Almond joy. Yeah.
+
+[22:06] Huh. Do you like those compressed coconut three-color coconut bars, like the Neapolitan compressed coconut bars? The Italian cookies? Yeah. Oh no, well, they make a they make a a bar that's real flat and rectangular that is just compressed coconut.
+
+[22:19] In a chocolate fake compressed coconut, fake chocolate. Coconut and then this fake coconut. I'm gonna say I don't like this. No. No, it's not it's not real coconut enough.
+
+[22:29] Like the almond joy kind of tastes like it's got coconut in it. Yeah, and not a mounds guy. I do like mounds also. Safical. I feel it like those commercials where they were fighting over that.
+
+[22:37] Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes you feel like a nut. Sometimes you don't. It's like analogy for the presidential election.
+
+[22:43] Yeah, although I feel that like I feel like some people, I feel that most people would always take one to the other. I don't feel like there's anyone who's like, eh, today I'll have this, tomorrow I'll then. Like you would probably almost always rather have the almond on it, no? Probably. Yeah.
+
+[22:56] I like things with almonds on them. There you go. It's a rule. What about trout? Yeah.
+
+[23:01] Yeah. As a matter of fact, I did. Yeah. Let me ask you this. Uh trout is the most consistently disappointing fish to me because I love trout, but then like people hammer the hell out of trout.
+
+[23:14] The only reason to eat trout is that you're far away from the ocean and it's the only fish. Wow. That's my opinion on trout. Have you ever had an actual where it's like 'cause you know what? I've done the ones where you buy the the BS trout out of the tank.
+
+[23:29] Yeah. They don't really first of all the not the best, even trout. No. Right. It's fine.
+
+[23:34] Yeah. But they know the trout the when I was a kid, it was all it's trout bleh, trout ta blah. I mean, like, okay. Right? Yeah.
+
+[23:41] Okay. It's all fine. Yeah. Trout smoked is like like smoked but not hammered. Like, can you do a smoked and not hammer the hell out of it?
+
+[23:49] I like it like fresh, hot smoked. Yeah, yeah. Not like dried out jerky smoked. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, herky jerky trout.
+
+[23:56] No good. Yeah. Uh I saw you did a uh what's it called? I saw you did a uh a video on sea robin. Yeah.
+
+[24:02] Now let me ask you this. I was on a boat once, like maybe the only time ever we went out to the sound. By the way, for those of you that don't know, uh, there's a the Long Island Sound, so there's a Long Island, hence its name is Long Island, and it stretches along almost the entire coast of Connecticut and then Peters out at a place called Montauk, which you might know from Jaws, the movie. And that is basically parallel with where kind of mystic Stonington is. So right around there it stops being the Long Island Sound and starts becoming the Atlantic Ocean.
+
+[24:32] And what's interesting is it's it's two kind of different ecosystems. The sound Long Island Sound ecosystem and then the Atlantic Ocean. So Mystic Connecticut is actually in a very interesting place from a seafood perspective. Would you agree with this? Yeah, definitely.
+
+[24:44] And we kind of get both of those. Although the sound ecosystem is not so great. I would say. Like there's no more lobster is like. I thought they brought them back.
+
+[24:52] I mean, not really. I don't think. I met a guy, I met a lobster uh person. He used to run the mailboat in uh in Maine up in uh up in uh uh near Sunset Maine, and oh salty sucker that guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[25:07] Yeah, he was talking about like cutting people's traps, like you know. I was like, Did you take the lobster first? He's like, I'm not a thief. Just a vandal. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[25:16] Well, you know, like if you you they have their waters, and if you put your buoy up there, let's cut it. You know what I mean? And so I was like, what do you think of even Cape Cod? I was like, what do you think of forget Long Island Sound? I didn't even bring it up.
+
+[25:27] I was like, forget that. I was like, what do you think of Cape Cod lobster? Mud bugs. And that was it. Might as well eat crayfish.
+
+[25:36] Yeah. I mean, of course, the Canadians are like idiot main weasels. They're like our lobster, yeah. The colder the better, I guess. Speaking of colder the better, you got your green crabs who are loving the warm weather.
+
+[25:46] They sure do. Yeah, sure you love it. Yeah, they're the reverse snowbirds of the of the aquatic community. So the green crabs, uh invasive and they used to die out because it got cold. They don't anymore, and you're cooking those suckers up, huh?
+
+[25:58] Yeah, we go through about well, at our peak, like a hundred pounds a week. Now, I had heard people were like capturing them, holding them in tanks, waiting them for them to molt, and then selling the softies. They're working on that. I mean, in in Milan, that's like a big thing. Softy greens?
+
+[26:11] Yeah. Uh yeah, delicious. I mean, the crab itself is delicious. There's not a lot of meat on it because it's small. So what do you do?
+
+[26:17] Hack it in half and broth it? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, we make a lot of stocks. We use all the derivatives.
+
+[26:22] Is there any decent way I saw a guy frying one of the softies? He didn't take off the little triangle. Loser. Yeah. Didn't you know?
+
+[26:29] Gotta take off the triangle. Take out the gills, cut the eyes. One on one. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[26:33] Softy, one on one. Yeah. Yeah. Uh anyway. Uh so like are they are so in our invasive species?
+
+[26:40] I get it. You're doing a good thing by but uh and they have to taste good, are you not going to use them, right? Or find something that they're good in. That's a uh, but what are they like price wise? Cheaper.
+
+[26:50] Really? Well, yeah. Um, that's the other side of time to talk about sustainable seafood. That this is a species that are more abundant, therefore easier to catch, therefore less money, generally for the restaurant. So I mean, when we first started getting them, they're like almost free compared to like anything else you would make stock with.
+
+[27:06] So it was a good investment for us, but they're also just better quality. Uh and they still have that that crab, you know, it's like everyone loves crab. Yeah. If you can eat crab, you like it. I mean, all crab generally taste the same.
+
+[27:18] More or less. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Within a range. Like all chocolate tastes the same. It's like different kinds of chocolate.
+
+[27:25] But you know, it's not like you can eat a crab and be like, wow, it's tastes like an orange, you know. It's yeah, I guess a bad crab tastes like a like a shrimp. Like uh, well, a bad crab tastes dirty. Yeah. You know, like spider crab is kind of like there are crabs whose textures I don't love.
+
+[27:44] Like which? Uh what's the one in? Like uh there's one that I never am happy with when I get it that's really expensive. What is it? It's not stone, maybe Jonah.
+
+[27:53] Maybe I'm never happy with Jonah. Dungeon is you gotta go out west and get the dungeon saying it's good. Or is the guy in uh Juno called him dungeys? Love the nicknames. Yeah, what's your favorite?
+
+[28:02] Oh, the kinks and the dungeys. That's my favorite. Like, like uh, but uh, I mean, like, has anyone ever devised a machine that can pick a crab? Yeah, the beter machine. What?
+
+[28:13] You don't know about this? No. Yeah, it's amazing. It it does just that. You just put the crabs in and out comes the shells and the meat.
+
+[28:14] No. It's like a $40,000 machine. Freaking way. The guy who gets the crabs for us, Jason Jarvis in uh Westerly has access to one that they have at Johnson in Wales. And so he can get green crab meat.
+
+[28:35] Oh my. It's pretty amazing. God. It's the only way to do it. There's no other way.
+
+[28:38] Give me the name of that again. I'm gonna look it up. Bader machine. Bader machines. Like do they have like nicknames like Darth Bader and all this?
+
+[28:46] Like literally, like how fast can it do it? Like you're dumping in, so you so uh presumably you steam them out. Yeah, right, and then you cool them or whatever, and you dump them in. And how good is how good is it? Like how many shells are you picking out of the meat?
+
+[29:00] Like kind of like if you get like picked crab meat. Yeah. Like that. That's been through a beter machine. No one's handpicking that.
+
+[29:06] No way. Yeah. And is it uh can it separate the the lump, you know, like uh the lump from the knot? I don't think so. Well, I don't know.
+
+[29:12] Well, like little green crabs don't really have that. No lump in it, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I'm not really sure how it works with bet quote unquote better crabs. But it's pretty cool.
+
+[29:20] And you're and so and you're buying that meat too, or no? No, we just use the whole live. I don't like to buy anything processed in any way. Yeah. And so I hear they're r rather fragile though, so they die pretty quickly.
+
+[29:31] No, they're really they're the opposite. Really? We tend to get that once we get crabs in, like a few days later, someone will come from like the laundry department be like, this guy was crawling around. Yeah. Like they just they're like kind of like cockroaches.
+
+[29:43] I lost uh I lost a bag of uh regular blues in my uh in my apartment once, like 20 years ago. It's not still alive, don't worry. It was like 20 or 30 years ago. And like uh, you know how like the first time that you cook crabs at home, they sell crabs, live crabs in New York anyway, in paper bags. Yeah.
+
+[30:00] They used to anyway. And so I was like, look at this. I pick up a bag, boom, bag opens up. Crabs, boosh, everywhere, all throughout my apartment. And you know, I'm running around the apartment, you know, picking them up, sorting the crabs from the cockroaches and like you know what I mean.
+
+[30:17] And uh I missed one. Yep. Yeah. The sneak next day. Yeah.
+
+[30:24] Yeah. Sneaky little bastards. Uh yeah. All right. Well, I I want to come up and try.
+
+[30:29] I I feel terrible. I go to Mystic often and yet I never eat out in Mystic because I'm always there a family. Well, yeah, but we gotta we gotta stop by. Yeah, you should sometimes so uh so C Robin back to C Robin. Are they related to puffer fish or do they just look puffy?
+
+[30:45] No, I don't think so. I think they're totally different. They're in the gunnered family. So there's like a bunch of species of gunnered. Some like in France they call them scorpion fish.
+
+[30:52] It's like the blue-based fish. Right. So do you use them for bully base? I don't. What do you get out of a uh sea robin?
+
+[30:58] Just the fillet, I mean it's which is small compared to the big old head? A little bit, not really. I think the yield is pretty good because the flays are really thick. So the yield's not bad. Doesn't it taste like?
+
+[31:07] Why is it considered a trash fish? Because people are stupid. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like I can remember even when I was cooking when skate was considered trash.
+
+[31:17] Yeah. I still can't get skate. Locally. It all goes to lobster bait. It's infuriating.
+
+[31:22] Really? Wow. Yeah. Because it's the fluke, the guys who catch skate are generally going for fluke. Right.
+
+[31:27] And they get a quota of fluke, and that's how much space they have on their boat to keep things nice. So that's all fluke. And the skate just goes in barrels and rots and they just sell it to lobster. Wow. Yeah.
+
+[31:37] It's pisses me off. That's awesome. And do all the skate taste the same or do we have more iodiney ones too? Uh I don't know. I get so so little, like fresh skate.
+
+[31:46] We got holes for a while, and they were all pretty much the same. But there's different species of skate as well. The scallops you get, how do they compare to like a Nantucket scallop? I mean, we get sea scallops, not base gallops. I always think of Nantucket as like base gallops.
+
+[31:58] Yeah, those are God scallop. They're beautiful. Yeah. But they're good. They're really good quality from locally.
+
+[32:04] Yeah. But you know, everything's a little bit offshore. It's not like they're growing super close and people are. It's not the the I feel like the days of hand diving scallops are over. I can never see diver scallops where people are actually diving for scallops, they're mostly dredged.
+
+[32:17] Yeah, because how would you where would you what would you I mean the people used to do it? I remember our seeing a Martha Stewart episode like 20 years ago. Someone was diving for scallops. You know, my cousin is learning to as just something to do to free dive. Yeah, I'm uh super into that.
+
+[32:31] He can hold his breath for like infinity. I used to when I was a kid, I was really into it. So you could do it. I used to free dive in my lake. You could you could go down.
+
+[32:37] I could hold my breath for like three minutes. How much would you have to charge? If you were gonna dive down, free dive down, and not just diver scouts anymore, free diver scallops. Free diver scallops. Free diver scallops.
+
+[32:46] They wouldn't be free. Free diving's not free. You know what I mean? So like how much would you have to charge, you think? A lot because it's risky.
+
+[32:54] Yeah. But your costs are lower because you don't need air. That's right. Could get an embolism, but you don't need air. It's true.
+
+[33:02] Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that what what are the dangers? I'm told it's not incredibly painful to free dive once you're used to it. No, it's not.
+
+[33:08] The danger is that you don't uh come up fast enough or you come too fast. Like that's how you how free divers die. Basically, what happens, like real professional free divers where they're like 600 feet below water. When they come up, their lungs shrink down to like the size of a grapefruit under the pressure. And then when you come up too fast, they expand, they suck all the oxygen from your brain, and you die.
+
+[33:28] Sure, it's funny. It's just hilarious. The things that human beings figured out how to do. Yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[33:36] It's not funny that anyone dies. But it's it's funny that the crazy things that people figure out how to do if there's some incentive to do so. Or even if there's no incentive, what's the incentive? Well, like what do you think professional freedivers make? Yeah.
+
+[33:49] Well, like uh, like for instance, uh, there's no reason to do death dives. You seen this one? No. It's the one where you uh do cliff diving, but you bought you belly flop, and like right at the last second you slap down, and so you slap the water, which helps kind of break the surface tension, and then you go in, but yeah. Why?
+
+[34:10] God knows. You're not even getting like a pearl or uh or a scallop or you know yeah, that's a uniquely human thing to do. Yeah, yeah. Maybe someone can figure out an economic reason to do it. It's a Scandinavian thing.
+
+[34:23] Do they TikTok it? Probably. That's the reason. Proly. I forget how it came to my Yeah, that's insane attention.
+
+[34:32] Uh you do you work with the Moromi people? I do. Yeah. Bob Florence. Yeah.
+
+[34:36] He's amazing. Yeah. And uh, what about the kelp folk? Yep, Susie Flores. Yeah.
+
+[34:40] Stone Kelp Company. I actually have a kelp t-shirt on right now. Let me see. I love this shirt. How is their kelp?
+
+[34:44] Their kelp is great. Yeah. Wow. Nice. Kelp dinner.
+
+[34:49] Yep. Yeah. Nastasia still, I think, triggered because we did uh we did a combu kelp a thon once at the French culinary studio, which is kelp for days, so much kelp. All the kelp. Yep.
+
+[34:59] And then I was like, Nastasi, what do you think of all of these kelp broths? And it was just like straight, straight kelp. Like nothing else. Sure. Yeah, like just the kelp.
+
+[35:11] Yeah. Remember that stuff? Like cupping. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[35:13] Yeah. We'd be like, here's the same kelp. One at 50 C, one at 60 C, and one at 70C for three different times. Taste. And then we were taste.
+
+[35:24] We're stupid. We could have actually like gotten on some weird health crazed thing if we had sold like, you know what I mean? Like with all those different things, we could have sold it as some stupid marketing thing. Yeah. If only if only we were smart enough and or uh what's the word?
+
+[35:41] Uh unethical enough to do so. I mean, it's not unethical if you believe it. Exactly. But if you don't believe it, it's unethical, right? I mean, I've I never felt good.
+
+[35:53] Like I would occasionally say things like, Well, I don't believe it, but this is what some people say. I personally think that's garbage, but you know what I mean? Then that's not a really good sales pitch. No. You know what I mean?
+
+[36:03] The value of self-deception. Yeah, you can make some decent money. You know what I mean? If you're like this rock is magic and you believe it, then just go buy a bunch of that rock and sell it. You know what I mean?
+
+[36:16] You're rich. Only rock, only rocks. What about like salt? Is that the most magical rock? Oh yeah.
+
+[36:24] Oh yeah. Salt. Oh my god. I mean I mean, uh besides the fact that we need it to live. True.
+
+[36:31] Delicious. Delicious. Salt. Oh my god. Under salted food, please.
+
+[36:37] I mean, I I've there are people who can't have it, and then they adjust, apparently. Apparently, I've read the research that you can adjust to not wanting as much salt. Anyway, let's look at some questions before we but yo, Jack, did you have any food stuff before we run out of time? I'll very, very quickly just shout out the two places I've been to recently in LA that were fantastic. La Cita, which is an incredible rotisserie, like chicken and salt in in a sol.
+
+[37:03] Uh and then RVR, which is pronounced River, which is the team behind Juicida. They have a new Izakaya in Venice, which is fantastic. So for West Coast people, those are my wrecks. Why no, why no valves? What?
+
+[37:16] Why no vals? What do they have against what do I have against? Oh, because because it was based on the last place they did, which was MTN pronounced mountain. I don't know. I can't tell you why they're leaving vowels out there.
+
+[37:27] You can't Google River with a if you Google River, you get rivers, but if you Google R VR. Is that what it was? You get the restaurant. That'll come up. RVR.
+
+[37:36] Yeah. It was really, really good. Like very, very, very, very good. Yeah. So yeah.
+
+[37:43] But get to those questions. All right, all right, all right. You want to shout out any particular dish you had? Um ramen. Okay.
+
+[37:54] What kind of ramen? Yeah. Were you a tonkatsu man? Yeah, I I'm generally a takatsu man. Okay, here's why I'm a bad person.
+
+[38:02] I like ramen. I won't kill people for ramen. Well, who's killing people for ramen? People go ape. I mean, like, I love Tampopo.
+
+[38:12] It's a great movie, but like I'm I wouldn't drive across the country. I wouldn't drive across the country for that. For it, you know what I'm saying? No, because you live in New York. You can get a good bowl of rum in uh many places.
+
+[38:24] Yeah. Oh, one more food thing quickly. Uh I sent a friend, a friend of mine, uh, Mike Cahill is uh on sabbatical in he's a law professor in uh England. He's like, What should I do? I was like, you should go to the Brogdale, which is their fruit collection.
+
+[38:39] It's in Kent in Favisham, which is like, I don't know, an hour and a half outside of London on the train, and you can walk from the train station, at least Nastasi and I did. And so I've been twice, and I told him I was like, it's real hit or miss. It's like if you go there when the plant weasels are outside, the British like horticultural nanny poos, then they'll stop you from picking all the fruit. But if you go and they're not out there, then you have a rip-write good time picking all the fruit. And they went and were able to pick everything they wanted and brought it back because it was raining.
+
+[39:06] And I think Nastasi, the time that we went there, was it raining? Uh it was misty, yeah. Yeah. And those lazy British fruit fools don't go out in the rain. Idiots.
+
+[39:19] And so if you're if you live in London and you want to try to chance it, right, go out when it's raining because those horticultural, like, you know, like uh pinky holding out tea drinking fools won't come and bust you if it's if it's raining. And if you do go and get busted in the rain, let me know so I can tell people that uh I'm wrong. Anyway. Uh those pears, those pears were so good, weren't they, Stas? Yeah, yes, they were.
+
+[39:44] Oh my god, those pears were good. Uh best pears I've ever had. Even though pear is not a fruit you should eat off the tree. I was gonna ask. Yeah.
+
+[39:53] Did you ripen it? No, we we weren't there that long. So, like, you know, we were only so certain some pears, like we would we would pick up drops and things that had like, you know, like uh, you know, done a little bit of extra stuff or stuff that was like on the tree a little bit too long. But even so you could get a feeling for it. And they also have a huge collection of uh wardens, which are the you know, cooking pears.
+
+[40:13] Yep. Um, and they have a huge collection of pear pears. And so it's kind of interesting to try all of those things. But if we live there, obviously take a bunch of them and like seller them properly. Because pear is one of those weird fruits where it's like, you know, you pick it and then you have to wait for the the 25 seconds where it's good.
+
+[40:31] You know what I mean? The avocado of well, avocado is also a fruit. I was gonna say the avocado of fruits. Yeah, yeah. I understand what you mean.
+
+[40:39] I think it's an apt, what's it called? Not an analogy, but it's an apt comparison. Sure. Yeah. Because, and you know that an avocado, the other stupid word for it is alligator pear.
+
+[40:50] Wow. So there you go. No one calls it that. That was gonna start calling it that from now on. Some some like some like white European guy was like, Well, that's an alligator pear.
+
+[41:00] You know what I mean? And then and everyone's like, no, it's it's an avocado, idiot. Dummy, you know what I mean? That's like someone saw like uh, you know, whatever they call the Korean pears now, uh, Asian pear. What are we calling that?
+
+[41:11] Yeah, someone's sand pear. You're like, no, no one calls it that. My guy, nobody calls it that. You know what I'm saying? Sand pear.
+
+[41:18] Although I tend to think they're kind of like sand pears because they're so gritty. Yeah, they're sandy on the outside too. Yeah, also if anyone can tell me why some pear O de V is you can taste the grit. Please let me know why. Like, what is what's going on where I'm getting a textural sensation?
+
+[41:36] What taste molecule is giving me the textural sensation of grit in a pear? Because I love that. I love when I get a pear O de V and get that gritty feeling. What's that Austrian one? We just met the the distiller.
+
+[41:48] The one, the one, yeah, Austrian. Yes, yes. I met that guy. He came to Connecticut. Yes, he could have told you.
+
+[41:53] I bet. Well, that's the one that's who we had it, Dave. Yeah, but he didn't tell us why. He just gave us he just gave us this. But we should ask Ariel or Harold.
+
+[42:03] Yeah. Oh, Ariel, by the way, Ariel, fan of the show, author of the Felivorama, just came out with a new pumpkin spice called Pumpkin Spice 2.0. It showed up at my house. I haven't tried it yet. Here's what I'm gonna do.
+
+[42:14] Here's what I'm gonna do. Ready for it? Jen, my wife, stopped taking sugar in her coffee. So in the wintertime, I used to make some spiced syrups to put into her lattes because she's a latte drinker. But now she hasn't taken it.
+
+[42:25] So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna make a no-sugar pumpkin spice syrup with polydextrose. What do you think? What do you think a no sugar pumpkin spice? Would you think it would work or not work? I mean, yeah.
+
+[42:37] With polydextress. Yeah. Polydextrose. So it's so it's not gonna mess your viscosity up. You know what I mean?
+
+[42:43] It's gonna add that body that sugars there without the sweetness. Yeah. Uh I'll let you folks know. I'll try it with pumpkin spice 1.0. I'll just go buy some.
+
+[42:51] I actually I've never bought pumpkin spice. I always just kind of womp together a pumpkin spice. Yeah. I'm gonna try Ariel's pumpkin spice 2.0 and then my whatever my BS pumpkin spice is. But then you can add spice, you can add the spice flavor without worrying about oversweetening it.
+
+[43:06] Because that's the problem with the pumpkin spice juice. I mean sugar, sugar swamp. You just add them separately, right? Sugar, pumpkin spice. Well, but tippy's every one thing.
+
+[43:15] Well, because that's how they dose it. I mean not a pumpkin spice capital. That's how they dose it. Like when they're working commercially, they're like and you're like, you're like, uh just the just the one pump. Yep.
+
+[43:26] Just the yeah, yeah, they're pumping the hell out of it with them. By the way, do you know we moved away from pumps at the at the bar? Uh so we have a couple of ingredients that are too thick to use. And uh, we had been pumping them with Tarani pumps, and they're great when the syrup is full, right? But as soon as there's any sort of air that like works into it, then you get like like burps in the pump.
+
+[43:53] And those pumps are dosing pumps. Yeah. So if it burps in the middle, then everything you've done before is trash. Yep. You know what I mean?
+
+[44:01] So obviously you do that first, but because at the new bar, we don't have room for giant like seven like a bunch of 750s. We were like, oh my God, like these small bottles, they're like they burp from the minute you start. You know, unless also like, you know, before service, you have to sit there like you're like, you know, like waving a jet down the down a you know, aircraft carrier to spin all of the sti syrup down to the bottom of the bottle so that they don't burp. Now it's the only ingredient we weigh. We keep them in squeeze, you put them in first, and then we weigh out those ingredients based on based on their density.
+
+[44:35] But and then the rest of it's jiggered. So we would never want to have two ingredients that are weighed in a drink, but one. And we use c there's so many cheap coffee scales now that are meant to get wet and that have backlit numbers and they auto on and their USB C uh recharging. So we just charge them at night and then they work the entire bar shift. So cool.
+
+[44:56] Anyway, just a thing. Uh oh, by the way, which you work at? The original New York one in the Four Seasons Hotel. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Joel Robochong, rest in peace.
+
+[45:08] Weird guy, huh? Yes. Weird guy. Anything you want to say about him? Uh, I mean, it was awesome.
+
+[45:16] I loved it. I worked it a whole time. Yeah. Uh-huh. But not everybody loved it.
+
+[45:20] Yeah. It was a difficult environment. Yeah, yeah. Took me many years to like detox get you a normal human in the kitchen. Oh, was it was it an was an anger-based cooking?
+
+[45:30] Um, I don't know, it was anger-based, it was just very cutthroat. Really? Especially early, because we had a Japanese chef who I won't mention his name because he's such a psycho. But um, oh, I also like, but it was just a lot of like, oh, new guy, great. Let's let's just really throw this guy under the bus.
+
+[45:44] Really? And then laugh while you're like it's beaten in the corner, you know? Oh, like like like with like normal hazing, like vacuuming their clothes. Um, no, just like in general, like whoever the new guy was was gonna get beaten. I remember when I went to the front kitchen.
+
+[45:57] Physically beaten? To some extent, yeah. Wow. When I was moving to the front kitchen, I was like, oh, great, move in the front kitchen. My sous chef's like, don't be happy.
+
+[46:04] He just wants to beat you. Wow. It was true. Wait, so you're so you get to be new guy twice, you get to be new person in the in the back and then new person in the front. Originally, yeah, in that place, yeah, for sure.
+
+[46:14] But so weird because Robishon himself was very gentle in that sense. Never like yelled, never raised his voice, not one time. He would like torture you with like a whisper. Really? Like, just stop.
+
+[46:24] Wow. In the middle of a big rush. He'd just be like, just he just whispered to the to the chef, stop and clean. And we'd just stop everything and clean the whole kitchen. Start again.
+
+[46:34] So, like, but he would say that when he didn't like a particular thing at the pass, or I don't know what really prompted it, but he was his whole whole philosophy was like, you know, it's okay to mess up a recipe, recipes are very personal, it takes a while to understand them, but there's no excuse for not clean. So that would like I don't know. Very famously when we were opening, he we the first friends and family, he came in that day. So the chefs prepared everything. And right as it started, he's like, no, throw everything away.
+
+[47:02] We're not doing this. We'll reopen tomorrow. Literally threw away every piece of me's and plastic. Probably just sit to every restaurant, right? It was like a thing.
+
+[47:08] But it was his shtick. Probably, yeah. He did a lot of things like that. He had a lot of weird contract things that he would, and his his meant the philosophy was if you don't get the things in my contract right, like the tiny thing, like I need to have a diet coke on my nightstand done, then that means you're probably missing a bunch of other stuff. So he's the David Lee Roth of chefs.
+
+[47:27] Yep. There was one story where he like showed up to one of his restaurants, and I guess in his contract, it was supposed to pick him up in a Rolls-Royce or like a certain car at the airport, and they showed up in a different car, and he looked at it, he turned around and got back on the plane and went back to France. That's a weird that's a weird dude. It's weird, but it's like you really have to watch all the details. Like we were so on fire when he was coming.
+
+[47:49] Like everything had been absolutely perfect. And so like uh the people who were supposed to be eating that night, were they like Yeah, probably pissed. Although that's what you know, friends and family, it's probably not why you can say, yeah, yeah. Yeah, although but you know, you didn't make other plants. That's true.
+
+[48:04] You got a babysitter. Did you did he give him a drink anyway? I don't know. Shut it down. Shut it down, that's it.
+
+[48:11] We're done. I don't think I ever ate, I don't think I ever ate at any of his uh places because he also had the the second tier, like more casual place. So I never ate there. Weird art was ours was weird because you had the the mansion, like in Vegas, there's the mansion in L'atelier, and L'Atelier is more bistro-y, yeah. But here he just had the telly.
+
+[48:26] It's really like a combination. So we were two-star Michelin. That was the goal. I saw him once give a talk, Starchefs with uh Bruno Gusot. Because you know, like they they developed the first uh kind of like mass sous vide thing for the SNCF.
+
+[48:42] Yep. And so, you know, Gusot is always like Rebochant, Rebelchant. Yeah, yeah. And so like they were talking about uh like like sous vide or you know, he calls it jusquaton, because he's if it's not sous vide, he doesn't call it sous vide, but he doesn't call it low temperature either. He's because he simply said temperature is not low, it's jusquaton, it's the right temperature, you know what I mean?
+
+[49:01] Like, all right, Bruno. And uh, and they had eggs in like a half lexan with a circulator, poly science because of course, and just like four eggs. And it was like the egg was just like boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, smacking against all four, like it's like on a like on a carnival ride. And we're all there like those eggs are ruined. Those eggs are toast ruin.
+
+[49:27] You know what I mean? And meanwhile, this like you know, one of the most famous chefs in the world is sitting there while the thing, like, how is he not like laser burning holes in everyone's eyes? You know what I mean? Oh man, yeah. That was a crazy, that was a crazy one.
+
+[49:42] That's the same, yeah. Anyway, I won't I won't go into all the weird crazy stories about uh that era. All right. Okay, from down here on the Chesapeake Bay, serious crab country. Uh Josh Seaberg, who believes that a hot dog is a sandwich, he's incorrect.
+
+[49:56] He's incorrect. Totally. Just wrong. One piece of bread. Yeah.
+
+[50:00] Oh, good call. Yeah. We just had this argument at the restaurant yesterday. Yeah, I'm a more of a functionalist. If you think you're gonna have sandwiches and someone hands you a hot dog, you're not happy.
+
+[50:11] True. You know what I mean? Um, serious crab country. I'm curious uh what uh uh your view is uh your what on what your favorite case of beer group of friends, let's eat a ton of seafood item. See X seafood.
+
+[50:25] What's the X? Hmm Group of Um probably would be oysters, really? Yeah, how so like just raw, just raw with any sort of toppings? Mini net, really, yeah. Classic triggering style styles has a minion net trigger.
+
+[50:42] Really? Yeah, I don't know why. I don't like when people do things with mini-net that aren't mini-net. Ooh, give me a sample. Cucumber.
+
+[50:49] It's not part of it. You're like, come up with a different name. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dice, tiny dice cucumber, an acid. You jerk.
+
+[51:02] You know what I mean? Yeah. I just want, I just want the thing. Yeah. Peppercorns, shallot.
+
+[51:06] No sort of horseradish product? No. Not an oysters. Well, unless you go below the Mason Dixon. And then you need it.
+
+[51:13] Well, what, to kill the poison from the fancy. Those oysters are like so much stronger. If I go down south, yeah, hot sauce always, yeah. Well, in like New Orleans, you like a cooked oyster? Um, I like a cooked oyster everywhere.
+
+[51:26] But you know, in general, like if I have raw oysters. Yeah, I only want them cooked down there. Down there? No, they're raw down there. It's great.
+
+[51:32] Okay, yeah. You know, I don't trust a warm water oyster. Vivriomia. It's crazy. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[51:40] Uh huh. So uh when you go to a low to mid-tier coastal uh seafood joint, and you get the admiral platter, broiled or fried? Fried. Yeah. Yeah, gotta go fried.
+
+[51:58] Gotta go fried. They don't know how to broil fish. No, they don't. And also it's like quality of the fish, and how good is it gonna be? It's probably frozen.
+
+[52:04] Oh, yeah. They they could they could be on the water and they're getting those frozen fillets. Oh, yeah. And you could taste, not that you can taste good frozen fish, it's good, but one that's been through a bunch of cycles, and you know that the the moisture's been crystallized out of it, and it has that that that texture of like yeah. I grew up going to the the the fried seafood places on City Island.
+
+[52:23] Oh my god, I only went to one. What's the good one to go to? Johnny. Are you from City Island? My grandparents lived on City Island.
+
+[52:28] So sick. For those of you who don't know, City Island is this weird place within a place. It's like this like one street, like the like water on either side, it's in the Bronx. It's crazy. It's like the South Bronx combined with Cape Cod.
+
+[52:41] Yeah, it's crazy. It's very strange. Yeah. I've lived there for like 15 years. Yeah, I mean, like, I've like for a while, I was like, maybe I should move this City Island.
+
+[52:48] It's great. You just get islandized really fast. Yeah, yeah. You never then you never leave, right? Yeah.
+
+[52:52] You're like, ah, I can't go to the grocery store, it's off the island. So where did it go? Is Tito Puente good? Um, it was actually Tito Punch is pretty good. Plus he used to play there all the time.
+
+[53:00] Really? It was amazing. Oh my god. You just show up. Seriously.
+
+[53:03] Pretty cool. Oh man. So what's the place to go though? Um, Ardi's is the best restaurant on City Island. And there's also a weird Italian place that's above this like catering hall.
+
+[53:12] I can't, I can't remember the name of it. But they the best part about that place is carpeted sidewalks. What? Yeah, I mean, that's luxury. Wow.
+
+[53:20] You know what? Uh so like the so the way to get into City Island, there's a place called Orchard Beach that you can drive past. And it used to be it used to be the dirty needle beach of record. Yeah. But I hear that you can't even get stabbed with a dirty needle anymore.
+
+[53:33] No, it's probably cleaned up over there. There's so many weird people in that area, though. It's so strange. Yeah. I remember there was this guy calling the midnight cowboy.
+
+[53:40] Because I would be driving home from the train station in the middle of the night, like through the park, and all of a sudden you see this guy in full cowboy regalia riding a horse. Come on. Through the park. A horse. A horse.
+
+[53:51] And it wasn't the naked cowboy. No, not that guy. Just a full-on cowboy guy. Sometimes you have bales of hair on the on the on the horse. For real.
+
+[53:58] For real. And then one day I got off the train and there's a horse tied up outside the bodega. What? And I'm like, I gotta see this guy. Did you go in and buy him a slim gym?
+
+[54:08] No, I went in and it was this guy who was like on his Bluetooth headset talking in great detail about transcribing classical music scores. What? So fucked it. You know what? For as much as I have issues with our great city, we we got some, we got some folk here.
+
+[54:26] It's the beauty of New York. Yeah, right. Yeah. Another one. Lobster roll of uh style.
+
+[54:34] I like the mayonnaise. Really? What? I hate that. Can you call yourself a Connecticut guy?
+
+[54:40] I'm not from Connecticut. All right. I don't like the hot lobster roll. Have you have you uh so if you don't like it, you know? I don't like hot sandwich guy.
+
+[54:48] Really? All said and done. Like, you know. Well, so uh for hot dog buns, do you like a top split though? I do.
+
+[54:54] All right. So, okay, so getting somewhere. All right, okay. Yeah. Okay.
+
+[54:58] Yeah. I'm more of a main lobster roll guy. Yeah, I love a Connecticut. I love a Connecticut lobster lobster roll on a top split like bun. The one at Chester is great.
+
+[55:09] They're good. I used to do one when we we did it with lobster butter instead of regular butters. Yeah. Amped it up. It's real good.
+
+[55:15] Yeah. Everyone liked it. I don't know. Everyone liked it be you? Yeah.
+
+[55:18] Yeah. There's very few things that I make that I don't like, but I still make them. Like lattes. I don't like them. Really?
+
+[55:23] No, I drink espresso only. Oh, okay. I don't want milk in my car. I don't want milk in my coffee. I don't hate milk.
+
+[55:30] I don't drink it, but I, you know, I like milk products more. You know what I mean? You like like cheese. Love it. Love, lerve.
+
+[55:39] Like, you know, uh, like even like a milkshake. Yeah. If you freeze that stuff. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[55:44] But just like pound a big old glass of milk. When I was a kid, I drank so much milk. One day I drank it, not in a row, not the challenge, but I had drunk through the course of the day by the early afternoon a gallon of milk. And I threw it all up. Yeah.
+
+[55:57] And then I haven't had milk as a beverage since. I have that same thing with gin. Really? I threw up on gin once in college, but I I got back to it. Yeah, I got back to it too.
+
+[56:07] Yeah. You go you come back around. Maybe you'll come back to milk. Maybe. I just don't see it.
+
+[56:10] I just don't. I like I I eat so much other milk. Imagine if you if you spent your entire life working with gin products, but you didn't drink the gin anymore. You might not be tempted to go back to gin the liquid because you're like a wash in gin products. Maybe.
+
+[56:23] I mean, I get my fair share of cow cow juice. You know what I mean? Uh all right. Uh Matt from Mystic writes in. Uh the Pavlova Chipright's daughter is really great.
+
+[56:34] Uh, can you talk a little about how the dish comes together and more generally, why Pavlova? I feel like you don't see Pavlova on menus that much these days. Thanks. Well, um, in my entire chef career, I've never had a pastry chef. And so I learned how to make Pavlova, and it's like a good showstoppery dessert that looks great, and it's just, you know.
+
+[56:54] Win. It's a winner. Yeah, I like a Pavlova. Yeah. Uh Stark Craving Man wants to know every season.
+
+[56:59] My brother and I put stone crab traps out and generally pulling about 100 to 120 pounds of stone crab claws per season. We have 20 to 30 pounds uh surplus frozen from last season. We've tried to figure out unique ways to eat them other than straight up with Joe's mustard and mayo sauce. Uh was thinking of doing crab soup with uh grouper headstock I made earlier in the summer. I have frozen or maybe a really decadent crab cake.
+
+[57:18] Would love to hear any input that you have. I mean, those both sound like good ideas. Maybe pasta. You can make a pasta with those. With the frozen, could you check it in?
+
+[57:27] Yeah, it's in the sauce. Uh oh, Frank M wants to know about uh grain mills. I'll definitely need to say that next week. That's like a long conversation about grain mills. That's a whole show on grain mills.
+
+[57:37] I just ran through. I have six in my house now. That's amazing. Uh my wife does not think so. No.
+
+[57:42] Uh okay. Christian writes in making mochi waffles. I ran into the issue of having them harden up after they sat for a bit. You mentioned that can happen when mochi cools off. I realize that must be what happened.
+
+[57:51] Does reheating solve the problem or keeping them warmed in an oven right out of the iron? You gotta keep those things warm. You gotta keep it. But the problem with mochi, and the reason I stopped making mochi waffles is really they are an aluminum nude kind of a thing. Like mochi, you want the outside to be super crispy.
+
+[58:05] And you want the inside to be really gooey. And like that's just not the way the world works. That things that are gooey on the inside and crispy on the outside, they just don't stay that way. So I don't know. If you had a CVAP or uh a combi oven, you could probably hold it for a while.
+
+[58:21] Doing a hot hold with a you know a wet bulb dry bulb stitch but it's never gonna be as good. You can re juzge them, right? You can put them back in the iron. So like you could sandbag a bunch of them, right? And then you can just you know nuke them up for like, you know, you know, in the uh in the iron for like uh a little bit, uh, or even just deep fry them to recrip up the outside.
+
+[58:44] But mochi waffles are good when they're good. And I I stopped making them because uh you can't force people to eat quickly. People are the worst. You know what I mean? This is why tasting menu situation, I can give them just a bite and eat it, eat it.
+
+[58:55] You know what I mean? Egg timer. Yeah, yeah. Oh my god, can could you do that? I've always wanted to.
+
+[59:01] For the general table time in general, but also I think for a dish, that would be great. Must be done by the time and it isn't long, Gary. It isn't long. You know what I mean? Give your like Wicked Witch of the West egg timer.
+
+[59:12] Oh my gosh. You you told them now someone's gonna do it. They're gonna rip off your ID. No, it's great. Anyone can do it as long as they call you out.
+
+[59:18] It's like a little credit somewhere, like in this in the pre-meal. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Why Shipwright's daughter, by the way? Um, well, we pulled it out of thin air, really.
+
+[59:27] But we wanted to have something that was kind of about the culture of mystic of kind of the shipbuilding culture and nautical culture, but also we're the next generation. Nice. All right. Well, uh, David, thank you so much for coming on. Uh I would say go to your James Beer dinner tonight, but it's sold out.
+
+[59:43] Are you serving any of those crabs up? Yeah, it's all green crabs. All green crab all the time? Yep, the whole menu. Yeah.
+
+[59:48] All right. Well, uh great to have you on. Please come again. Maybe I'd love to check you out next time I come up to Mystic. Yeah, please do.
+
+[59:54] All right, welcome. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City, uh New York City, New Stand Studios. Uh joined as usual with John. How are you doing? Doing great.
+
+[0:22] Got Joe rocking the panels behind me. How you doing, Joe? I'm doing okay. Okay. Got uh Nastasia De Hammer Lopez in studio today.
+
+[0:31] Yeah. Yeah. Got uh over there in California, our only California representative today. Uh Jack, you there? Oh, I'm here.
+
+[0:40] I'm here. All right, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm here. In the upper upper left, of course, we have Quinn.
+
+[0:46] Uh how you doing? How you doing? Yeah, good. All right. So yeah, Quinn's the only person who doesn't live in America.
+
+[0:55] So yeah. I'm just gonna non-political show. I'm gonna leave it where it is. Uh except I will say this about it in a non-political way. If anyone thinks that Trump isn't serious when he says he's gonna do something that's in his power to do, you've made a mistake.
+
+[1:12] So assume that the spinzalls next year are gonna cost a lot more money. And if you want to have a spinzall for less than about $1,500 or so, we haven't figured out what the price is gonna be when the tariffs get jacked up to 60%. But so buy them now. Yeah, buy them now. They might be like quadruple.
+
+[1:32] Yeah, I mean, I don't know. It's gonna be like, listen, adding 60% to the cost of importing a good doesn't just it it it it doesn't just mean that we increase it by the price of the what the factory does, because that price increase then applies to a lot of the other ancillary costs we have to pay, right? Like in terms of the one units that get lost, units that get returned, things that need to get redone. Because anytime we have to throw something across the water, we're paying 60% off of what the what the you know on on board price is. So yeah, it's gonna suck for people that want a spinzall, which means it's gonna suck for us.
+
+[2:13] Uh which means we may or may not stay in business. So buy it now. That's all I'm saying. So uh other than uh the election, what do you guys have happened last week? Nastasi and I have some good stories to tell, but uh what do you what do you guys have?
+
+[2:26] I'll tell a quick one just because uh I know you have opinions about this, Dave. Yeah, I think I were out at a Go ahead. Oh, you did? What? No, no, no, no.
+
+[2:36] You do it, you do it. No, no, I'm uh so Dave has a theory. Wait, me? I have a theory. You have always said to do this.
+
+[2:43] Okay. So Jack, go ahead. Okay, so we were at a bar, I won't mention the bar, and they had a special cocktail menu, and uh I got one of the drinks uh by recommendation of the bartender, and I tasted it and privately told Stas, I was like, Oh, I don't like that. Okay. And then she said, send it back.
+
+[3:05] And I said, No, no, it's fine, I'll finish it. And she's and she said no, send it back. No, no, no, it's fine. And then Stas told the bartender he hates it. The bartender said, Oh, okay, well, I'll take it back and give him something else.
+
+[3:16] Correct. Yeah. You've always said to do that. Yeah, correct. And that's your second drink that you got.
+
+[3:22] Did you like it? I did. Winning, winning, winning, winning. Everybody winning. It was hard for me.
+
+[3:34] Let me ask you a question about this. Do you feel better about that bar now? Uh I always liked the bar, but yes. I mean, in theory, yes. It was it was the right way to handle it.
+
+[3:44] Like on the bar side for sure. They have one, and you have one. Now let me ask you another question. Which drink of the night was it? Your first drink?
+
+[3:52] Second. Second. Now, not shaming on your did you have another drink after that? I did, yeah. Okay.
+
+[4:00] So you would not have had another drink if you had to sit there and nurse that drink that you detested for that whole time. So not only did they win because they would have been less likely. Yeah, you're a happier customer, but they made an extra cocktail off of you, which is a huge win from a from a cost perspective. So everybody here has won tremendously. Everyone but your liver is a huge winner in this circumstance.
+
+[4:24] Right? So you my liver is always winning. My liver's good, man. My liver's good. Oh, you know, there actually there is a lot of research on uh, you know, people who have a certain like uh consumption, your enzymes are in fact higher.
+
+[4:38] You can like have a higher or lower ability to metabolize alcohol. That's why when people don't drink for a while, then they have one or two drinks, they think they can drink like they used to. They can't. Anyway, uh they cannot. But um anyway, yeah, so that's a win.
+
+[4:52] So I hope that you've taken that under consideration. However, I also don't do it. It is the correct advice. It is the correct advice, but it is not the advice that I myself can take for myself because it's just not in me to be like, I hate this. You know what I mean?
+
+[5:15] What's the worst thing you've consumed because of that? Oh, I mean, what like in, I won't say in a restaurant, I'll say it like I mean I mean I've told this story years ago, but uh my um my stepfather's my stepfather's stepmother, Dee Dee, she was famous for her cheesecake, right? This is in Meantford, like outside of Boston. And so, you know, you it was like you had to like everything, not only did you have to like everything, but like, you know, she fed the hell out of you. Like she fed you until you popped.
+
+[5:45] You know what I'm saying? Like it was an absurdity. So I eat this entire this huge, we had huge like family dinner with the freaking, you know, with the with the gravy with the pork chops and the freaking brajole and the freaking sausage and the pasta plus like appetizers for hours beforehand, like thank God I wasn't drinking wine at the time, or I would have been completely under the table. You know what I mean? That kind of meal.
+
+[6:08] And so she busts out cheesecake. Now, at this time in my life, I love cheese. Love cake. Hated, hated cheesecake. I love cheesecake now.
+
+[6:18] I've grown. You know what I mean? Hated cheesecake, detested it. It's like it's like one of those things where I'm like, oh, cheesecake, oh, you know what I mean? So Didi's like, my famous cheesecake.
+
+[6:29] And she pulls out this like giant, you have to picture Didi. Dee Dee, Didi had been a hairdresser. So, like she was born in the 20s. And so, like, you know, her fashion froze some point in like the 60s, and she's like uh Medford, like uh Italian, like, and she was a hairdresser, so her hair was poofed up in a very particular way, but she was an older woman, so the hair was poofed up in a. I hope you can picture what I'm what I'm trying to get out of here.
+
+[6:55] So she comes out with this cheesecake, and she's like, oh, a big slice for little Davy. And so, like, I'm like, I'm like like eating my way through it. I'm like, I'm like, I have to have to. So I plow my way through this cheesecake. I make it to the end, and I was like, She's like, oh, you like the cheesecake?
+
+[7:11] Have another slice. And she pulls out another slide of cheesecake. And I had to pound through two slices of my least favorite dessert. So that was the kind of worst thing that I've ever plowed through that I don't like. You also go the other way where we had to not eat at that house.
+
+[7:29] What? Which was that? No, this that has nothing to do with it. Styles is trying to bring up this story. We have a total ad nauseum.
+
+[7:35] We're not gonna talk about it. Then why'd you bring it up? I was just thinking that you do it in the other direction. You're you are that scorpion or that snake riding on someone's back, and you sting them and everybody drowns. You're like, my nature, you're the a-hole.
+
+[7:49] You're the one that put me on your back, you jerk. You know what I mean? That's you. Anyway. Uh what about you, John?
+
+[7:56] What's your least favorite thing you've plowed through? Oh, so I ordered a dirty vodka martini at a bar. Somebody had put the honey syrup in the olive brine instead. And you powered through it? Yeah.
+
+[8:10] Jesus. Yeah, really unpleasant. I just don't know why you would power through it. Yeah, I just I don't know. I don't want to send any.
+
+[8:18] I'm fine sending shit stuff back. Yeah, yeah. The other question is like when you're when you're going as a pro, then if you can't send back if you think you might get comped either. Like that's the other thing. Oh, God, right.
+
+[8:34] Yeah. If you think you might get comp, you can't be like, yeah, this kind of sucks. You know what I mean? You can't do that. You know what I do though?
+
+[8:41] I I've made up fake allergies so that I don't have to eat the stuff if I get comp. I know that you do this kind of thing. I just can't. And then I get the good stuff. Like I get extra tuna belly.
+
+[8:50] Oh no. You can't have any, you can't have the tuna belly because it's got like a little bit of we're worried there might be some cross camp and tank, and you're allergic. It's just not a good idea. No, no, no. I see allergic to uni and why am I?
+
+[9:01] Why don't you just say this? I hate uni. Just say that. I love it. And you know why?
+
+[9:07] Because they're like, oh my God, that's crazy. Uni's, I don't want to hear it. I just like usually when I say I hate Uni, they're like, oh my God, wow, it's the and I'm like, fine. You know what they say when you say you're allergic to Uni? They go in the back, it's like, she ain't allergic to Uni.
+
+[9:18] There's no one allergic too. We don't have to have that conversation though. Like, I don't have to hear them tell me how great Uni is, and yeah. No server worth or salt is gonna say a a freaking thing to you about your likes or dislikes. They always every single sushi house that I'm like, I really don't like Uni, and they're like, Wow.
+
+[9:40] Or like the guest next to me will be like, What? You know, hate it. Hate it. Yeah, that's me. That's what I do to you.
+
+[9:46] Yeah, I know. Every friend, I hate it. Yeah, but then but then Jack, you know her. So if she says to you, if she says in your earshot, I'm allergic to Uni, you're just gonna be like, wah, and then she has to have the conversation not only about that she doesn't like Uni, but that she's a liar. No, it doesn't I mean like I'm allergic to it in a way that makes me hate it.
+
+[10:07] How about that? Like I'm I'm nope. No, allergies are a real thing, and we in the restaurants have to take it seriously. It's a whole different level of taking seriously. Seriously, allergies, yes.
+
+[10:18] Yeah, it's a whole different level of a restaurant. Is there anything you can't eat? Yes, I can't eat uni and scallops. There, sure. That's yeah, exactly.
+
+[10:26] But that's not what they usually they say. Any allergies at the table. But I also say it in a sushi place. May I other any of you? But I also say it in a sushi place because if you're getting like the thing, and it's usually part of the thing, I want to enjoy like another delicate thing that you know that's not uni.
+
+[10:44] So yeah. What uh by the way, what is the non what is the nice way of asking what they can't have? I was just thinking about that. I don't know. Like what is a way restrictions?
+
+[10:57] Yeah, dietary preferences. I don't know. I don't know. Like there's got to be a way that doesn't try anything you don't eat. I think that's good.
+
+[11:08] It's simple. Yeah, I guess. Except for like you know what I mean? Like someone who truly can't have something, you know. But then they can respond and no, is there anything you don't eat?
+
+[11:18] Yes, I'm allergic to this. Or I really don't like this. And it's just like you tell them what that thing is, you know. You're kind of reminding me of the um the waitress uh in Twin Peaks when they ask for the specials at the diner. Oh, it's been so long.
+
+[11:32] I don't remember. Like what like they say, well, we're we want to hear about the specials. You want to hear about the specials? We don't have any specials. That's the way to do it.
+
+[11:41] If you have no specials, then I don't have to waste time thinking about them. I go blank the minute someone talks about specials. I I hate hearing it phrases. We have some additions to the menu this evening. I don't know.
+
+[11:54] It's just that sounds really good. I can read a board, I can read a little piece of paper, but as soon as as soon as someone says, We have the I go, that's what I'm hearing in my head. And then every once in a while, like I like I can hear individual words. So if they say like pork belly, I can be like, wait, what? What are you doing to that pork belly?
+
+[12:16] Oh, it's just a little bit shredded. Okay. You know what I mean? It's like anyway. But that's on me.
+
+[12:24] That's that's in the Discord, by the way, uh, he says they ask allergies or aversions. They get serious about allergies with cross contamination aversions, they keep it off your plate. That's a nice way to put it. Yeah. Keep it off my plate.
+
+[12:37] Aversion. You guys start telling people says you have bacteria aversions. She's like, she's like uh aversion to scallops, uni, and the dude next to me. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[12:52] Uh all right, John, you went to the superiority of Bergair. Yeah. Delicious. Great spot. Uh yeah.
+
+[12:57] Really Did you have his fries? I did. How were they? They're very good. I had uh I had one of his in-betweener fries.
+
+[13:03] I hadn't have his final. No, I liked it a lot. It was good shape, size, all that stuff. Um but I also liked how you could still I don't know, like there was a distinctive taste of potato coming through, not just yeah, I don't know. It's a it's a hard thing to describe.
+
+[13:20] This is why Dax Okay, get this. So the average potato chip, for anyone that knows anything about making potato chips, they're theoretically easy because all you need to do is get all of the water out of them before they burn. The only thing that you need to do is get all of the water out of it. You know, or 97% of it out before it turns burnt, right? Yeah.
+
+[13:42] So uh if the potatoes are too high in sugar, they get real dark. If they get real dark, typically they taste kind of burnt. You know what I mean? Like, so what most people do is soak them, right? But Dax doing non soaked and soaked side by side, every soaked one, he's like, these don't taste enough like potato.
+
+[14:01] So then you have the problem of having to you can't really control the potatoes that you get in a regular supermarket to the extent of getting their sugar level down. So I don't know. Interesting problem. Interesting problem. Yeah.
+
+[14:12] But keeping the potato in, a lot of the way you keep it. Oh, I wonder if you made some sort of instead of water soaking things. Like, what if you had sort of some sort of like thin potato stock? Like could you soak them? I don't know, whatever.
+
+[14:23] It's an probably not, because then you'd be starching every crap out of them. What is the non what is the non-starch flavor of potato? I mean, like technically, we would have to ask Ariel or someone who has done like HPLC stuff on on potatoes. But uh, you know, Dax can very clearly Dax can very clearly tell the difference between a potato that has been put through water even a little bit and a potato chip that has been um and the same is true for fries. Uh, you know, if you I wonder like so, like, you know, people who do no water blanch and just do a like in Belgium, right?
+
+[15:06] They do a lower temperature oil blanch. They just control their oil better, right? They don't do a water blanch in Belgium. No, they don't. Right.
+
+[15:12] And so, you know, maybe that is the best potato if you can control your oil properly. Don't know. I mean, they do make the best fries that I have had out. You know what I mean? Um, so you know, and by the way, most of my fries studies were before I did a lot of the potato chip text tests with Dax, who clearly could tell a soaked potato from a non-soaked potato and clearly preferred the non-soaked, right?
+
+[15:39] So um, anyway, so maybe I'll figure out how to condition potatoes better to get their sugar level down. There you go. Nummy. Yeah. Nummy.
+
+[15:46] All your free time you can work on that now. Yeah. Assuming we go out of business with this fins all's effects. Yeah, the best. Got a backup plan.
+
+[15:54] That's great. Yeah. So speaking of business, Nastasi and I had a super fun time yesterday. What did we do, Nastasia? We cleared out the storage unit and part of my house.
+
+[16:04] Yeah. Yeah. So uh Nastasia, we had to get Nastasia's Nastasia's moving out of Stanford, so we can now tell you where her house was. On the water. Yeah.
+
+[16:14] Yeah. But it's like a tiny house, like a carbuncle, like a barnacle on the on the end of the land, like right in Stanford in a place called Chapan Point, right? And she lives next to the giving ahead of like this house is smaller than most people's garage. Yeah. Right.
+
+[16:34] It's a freestanding house. It's but it's on like a good chunk of land, but it's it's smaller than most people's garage. But the people next door are the kind of people that have an infinity pool next to the sound, right? So that's the kind of like difference in in so Nastasia's like, I have to throw my bed away. I'm like, okay, fine.
+
+[16:54] So I go up now. The only way to get upstairs in Nastasia's house is like a spiral staircase that, you know, you it's it's bare it's barely big enough for an action figure, right? And so then you're going up this spiral staircase, and she's like, I need to get the bed down. And so I'm so tired and angry that I like just I pick up the mattress and I just start shoving it into the stair. And she's like, it's not at work, it's not working.
+
+[17:19] And then she's like, Oh yeah, there's a hatch. Classic Nastasia. So you wanted to take off the sheets, and I was like, No, I hate mattress. Uh I hate seeing mattresses. It's an interesting fact.
+
+[17:36] Yeah. That's an interesting fact, ma'am. Anyway, so here's the good news. So we have to be I have to be at Stanford at nine for any of you that AM, for any of you that like, no, you can't really get anywhere on I-95 in and out of New York City at any time of day for any reason whatsoever. So, like, I'm like, okay.
+
+[17:52] So I get up, walk the dogs, get ready to go, ready to go. I'm gonna be there before nine. It's super excited. All of a sudden, I come back in with the dogs. Jen, my wife is like, what the hell is going on?
+
+[18:04] I'm like, what? I go over and guess what? Does anyone remember when I said that when you store lye, concentrated lye solutions in uh polyethylene, especially LDPE bottles, that they're not secure and that the LDPE bottles can leak? Well, guess what, folks? It turns out that I had some solid lye, not a lie solution, in an old spice, you know, those plastic, like the large restaurant-sized spice uh bottles that are shaped kind of like a house.
+
+[18:38] Yeah. They're LDPE. And uh I had a bunch of lie in it. And the lie, I'd noticed the lie had gotten hard, you know, so it's like rattling around, but you know, whatever, like you know, within a couple of percent, it doesn't matter for pretzels, right? So I just kept a small amount of solid lye left in this spice thing for pretzels.
+
+[18:56] And what had happened is is that a little bit from opening and closing it if moisture had gotten in, and it was able to, or it wasn't sealed enough. It was some moisture enough was able to get in. Uh, lies incredibly hygroscopic, soaks up water, that there a lie solution formed against the wall of the spice container, which then ate through the spice container, which then allowed more water to go onto the lye, which then formed a lie solution, which then dripped, very concentrated lye solution, which then dripped down my shelves onto everything I uh owned on the way down. Like, you know how you store, you know how when the DOH comes, they're like, you can't have chicken over beef, over fruit, over salad. Right.
+
+[19:40] So I had done that, but with lye. So it had ruined everything. And so it had also gotten on gen. So I was in serious trouble. And also, I had to go through like an hour of cleaning before I had to go up to the to the thing.
+
+[19:53] And you know, thank God I had a boatload of vinegar in the house. So, you know, you you wash everything, then you spray everything with vinegar, you wipe it, and you smell it. If it smells like lye, you're not done. So you have to thank God, you know, it has like a bit of an aroma, that kind of pretzel y, you know, basic aroma. So then, you know, lye, you know, and then I have to soak all my cell shelves in vinegar like three times to try to get rid of the, you know, and if the the wood is hosed in a lot of it.
+
+[20:20] It literally ate the top layer of veneer off of like one one of the shelves. He always has lye. And it's labeled says lie. Yes. Right.
+
+[20:31] And you don't, you you just like leave it as is. You think it's inert. Well, you think it's safe. Yes. Okay.
+
+[20:40] All right, never mind. Plenty of people keep lye, like soap makers, pretzel. This is not your first lie. Yeah. No, no, not at all.
+
+[20:51] I mean, I I've I've had lie experiences myself, but now I know, like, you kind of kinda check on it. Yeah. And don't just do like muric acid, same thing. Yeah, you keep it. Shake of make sure it's going forward, I'm never gonna have lye in the house.
+
+[21:06] Now, whenever I make pretzels, I'm gonna have to use sodium carbonate, which is a chumps pretzel. It's a chumps pretzel, people. And the way you make sodium carbonate, obviously, is to is to bake uh baking soda. It then gets rid of and turns goes from sodium bicarbonate to sodium carbonate, which is a stronger base. That I can have in the house.
+
+[21:23] It doesn't eat through anything, but it ain't no lie. But my point is we're if one someone listening to me is going to keep lyee in the house, first of all, uh be aware that it might cause a problem. But secondly, keep it in glass. Just keep it in glass. But just but just if you are keeping it, what's the plastic that you can't keep it in?
+
+[21:45] I'm not sure. Uh like uh, you know, there is a plastic, you can't keep it in it. I'm sure it works in me, maybe polypropylene. I don't know. I like all I know is is that unless you know for a fact that the chemistry of the plastic you're dealing with is good for lie, don't.
+
+[22:02] Like only store it in something that you know is okay. You know what I'm saying? Uh because, you know, I've had more than three heartache experiences with lye. You know what I'm saying? This reminds me, obviously it's the opposite end of the pH spectrum.
+
+[22:19] But this reminds me a lot about like end of episode two of breaking bad. You know what I mean? Oh, where they dissolve the person. Yeah. That's a good poll.
+
+[22:31] I mean, the injuri the interesting thing about acids, right, is that the like how violently different acids attack different things is dependent on what it's attacking and also on the acid, right? So some acids are much more aggressive on certain substrates than uh than others, right? Like uh what would they? Do they use sulfuric? Because that's what I would use to dissolve uh organic stuff.
+
+[23:00] I forget. But again, Walt tells Jesse to get a very particular type of material and then he ignores him. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, don't worry, it all ends up badly for all of them.
+
+[23:12] Uh, but the the yeah, I I I just can't have that kind of crap in my house anymore. Like, you know what I mean? I even yesterday afterwards, I had a bunch of glacial glacial acetic acid, which is also nasty stuff. You know what I mean? Like highly corrosive glacial acetic acid.
+
+[23:29] So I uh I don't know why they call it glacial, by the way. I have no idea. It just means basically pure acetic acid. It's like 98%, right? Glacial.
+
+[23:39] Glacial. Don't know why. But not like there's no glycerin in it or anything. No, and don't find it on glaciers to the best of my best of my ability. Maybe, maybe someone was like, maybe someone's like, you know what F's your crap up?
+
+[23:49] Glaciers. I'm gonna call this stuff glacial. Yeah, I have no idea. But uh it is nasty. Like if you drip it on a concrete floor, it's like you know what I mean?
+
+[23:58] Like, you know, so uh I had some, and so what I did is I poured a little bit into a core container and then uh flooded it with water, and then just did that until I had only a little bit left, and then I turned it into I I saved some 24%, which is fine. You know, 24% is fine. So anyway, so I ended up making it in time, and so Nastasi and I had the great pleasure of throwing away uh 2004, about 900 pounds of uh stuff that we had paid $490 a month to store for the past storage is the worst. We had been paying $490 a month forever to store all of this crap. And then so people came, right?
+
+[24:43] What do people come and take? Barely anything. Oh, they took what? The freeze dryer. Yeah.
+
+[24:49] Um, you pushed the press on someone. I like it. I push the press. That's like, you know, yeah. So that's yeah, our 20-ton press is gonna get used in a cocktail bar again, which feels good, along with all the Delrin that I had, you know, made into a press basket for it.
+
+[25:03] The freeze dryer, which was originally, I think Harvard or MIT, then uh Robert Millican's who gave it to Alex and Aki from Ideas and Food, who then gave it to us. It's now been passed along. That's the freeze dryer, right? Uh no one, no one took. Here's how I'm shamed.
+
+[25:21] We had a giant fish poker. No one took it. I know. It went in the dump. Went in the dump.
+
+[25:26] Oh. My first bass I'd ever bought. I ruined it by trying to turn it into a bass banjo years ago. And I had kind of ruined it. It never played the same afterwards.
+
+[25:35] So I'm like also like I'm 53 or 54, whatever it is. Did you say bass banjo? Yeah, I took my I took my 19, whatever it was, 85 uh Japanese built magenta or raspberry was the actual technical color, uh, P jazz bass. That was the first base. First, like I bought it with my own money.
+
+[25:54] It's the most money I ever spent. The only reason I know how to play bass was because I had spent so much money on this thing. I played the hell out of it. Had a very thin, you know, four-string fretted, had a very thin neck. So, like, unlike a lot of like um uh P bases, which had kind of a fatter neck and a little chunkier, it's a very fast-playing bass, which suited my style.
+
+[26:11] Anyway, I got rid of it. I put it in the dump. I didn't hurl it. So all of our old rotors, I threw them as I frisbeat them. By the way, especially wait.
+
+[26:18] Wait, wait, wait. Dave has always Dave has always made the case, or we both have that Dave and I can have uh fun in a pile of camel shit. And that is dung. Dung children. Yeah.
+
+[26:31] And um, and it's true. Yeah. Like we literally had the best time. Yeah, people, because people like, first of all, people show up and we're like, they ask someone's like, does this work? I'm like, I don't know.
+
+[26:44] Not my problem. Literally, everyone who came, I was like, listen, listen, no warranty express or implied may kill you, may light your so someone, oh, they didn't end up taking it. Someone was like, What's this? I was like, Oh, that is a Sears All uh 2.0, a Sears All Pro prototype where they just inflated a regular Sears all, so it's incredibly unsafe because it'll tip over and light your house on fire. They were like, no, thanks.
+
+[27:10] I was like, Yep. Yep, yeah, yeah. We saved the very first Sears all we ever made. That we saved. Yeah.
+
+[27:18] Yeah. Yeah. And we we spent $15 dumping all of our stuff, which is cheap. Well, my car though. So the the other thing is like some things I didn't think were gonna go, like my stereo microscope.
+
+[27:30] I'm like, nobody wants a stereo microscope. Then someone took the stereo microscope. I was like, oh good. It's a nice stereo microscope, very nice. You know?
+
+[27:37] Yeah. You know, yeah. But it's sad. There was a lot of really good stuff that people didn't take, you know. Yeah, sad.
+
+[27:45] Yeah, when she said that she means the wine Santa. Yeah, wine Santa got junk. So wait, Dave, did you say yesterday? I think I was outside, did you? Did you say that was right in my balls?
+
+[28:03] What? Did something in my house hit you square in the bottle? Probably. Probably. Oh my god.
+
+[28:13] Oh, it was so fun. The whole day was so fun. But you know, but the only thing is like for all the pain, it was like we threw away a danger fuge. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[28:21] So like for all the pain, you're like, goodbye, big chunk of my life. Yeah. Goodbye. Yeah. Like years.
+
+[28:28] You have no meaning. You know what I mean? But you know, and I'm not. So I get home and Jen is like, didn't it feel satisfying? I'm like, nope.
+
+[28:36] No. No. No. No, I don't feel better. I don't feel anything.
+
+[28:40] I just feel sad. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[28:43] Feel sad. I paid $490 a month. I feel sad it's all gone now. Did you have some type of disclaimer when people bought it? That you know, you're buying under own risk.
+
+[28:52] We said it out loud. We didn't have it. Yeah. I mean, we didn't we didn't charge anything. It was basically like a hallway.
+
+[28:57] Yeah. Inventors. Yeah. So the person who took the uh the person who took the press was like, I'm not sure it's gonna fit in the oh it'll fit. Dave made it fit.
+
+[29:10] I'm like, I don't know how your car is gonna look afterwards, but it's gonna fit. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, you know, for the you know, some people who like don't know me in that mode now know me.
+
+[29:21] Well, it's funny, not a lot of people are like you or me, where it's just like get it done. Like they're like, that's not it, and then you're already halfway, yeah, you know, like through the thing. Yeah. You know whose line we used a lot was uh from the SCI when I've told the story a million times, but Nastasi and I were cooking a raccoon. Cooking a raccoon.
+
+[29:38] I don't know why this came out so much. And first that comes by no the tour, the tour guide. Yeah, with a tour, people are like, what is he cooking? I don't know, baby. And it keeps walking.
+
+[29:49] So then we just go like so like everything like style every time you ask me, Styles is like, what was that? My getting crushed or mangled, and I don't know, baby. That was it, you know, the whole time. All right, all right. Questions, questions.
+
+[30:01] Oh, by the way. Uh you didn't ask what? Oh, you asked Jack and Quinn if they had anything interesting. Oh, Quinn Quinn didn't say anybody had anything or not. Well, I mean, um we think.
+
+[30:12] Well, it's been like two weeks, so it's I mean I'm trapped. I know. And unfortunately, next week I'm gonna be in Barcelona. So I don't know. We have to make up some of these.
+
+[30:21] You know, for those of you that aren't on Patreon, you get what you pay for. You get what you get, and you don't get upset. But we need to make up some of these for the uh for the Patreon folk. Uh but speaking of Patreon, for people that are um that are, you know, you know, questioning about the Patreon. I am going to try and upload some bonus content uh myself.
+
+[30:41] I uploaded a video breaking down one of my gelato calculators a little bit. Did you say Boris content? Do you say for what do you say? Oh, bonus bonus. No, now I need some Boris content.
+
+[30:58] Anyway, uh, do I have you know I don't know any Borises? Yeah, I don't think I'll do that. We know we do, John. We know Boris Lopez. I met my first Boris just the other day.
+
+[31:12] Yeah, yeah. Oh, nice. How how a good a good Boris or a bad boy? Um okay Boris and Natasha. Dave, you know who that is?
+
+[31:23] No. We had to make up for trailing edge technology. We had to make up a name for that account so that it seemed like we had an assistant or something. I don't know. And so it was Boris Lopez.
+
+[31:33] Yeah, I use the Boris, I used the Boris Lopez email address like twice a week. Is it pronounced Lopez or is it pronounced Lopez? It's spelled Lopez. Yeah, pronounced it Lopez. Boris.
+
+[31:51] So for those uh by the way, if you're listening on Patreon, you can call in to 917-4101507. That's 917-410-1507. That's the only way to listen live. And your questions are theoretically prioritized. We're gonna get to your questions in a minute, but you want to tell them uh why they might want to be on the Patreon.
+
+[32:08] For instance, the the discounts they might get. Yeah. Regular non-Patreon chumps, by the way, can get a discount. Not that you're a chump if you're not on the Patreon, but you know what I mean. Uh can get a discount uh for a glass van uh by using the code uh Dave Arnold No Spaces, uh capital D, capital A, but Patreon members get a bigger discount.
+
+[32:25] What else they get? We get discounts also with Grove and Vine olive oil, uh which is delicious, delicious, uh delicious kitchen arts and letters, and we have guests on their books. Um so Miley Carpenter, who's been on the show, she was over my house, and uh she pours some of that oil that he that Nick tasted us on from uh you know uh Grove and what you know, whatever it tasted us on, and she's like, This is delicious. I was like, Yeah, so good. You know what I mean?
+
+[32:51] That's what I said. I didn't, but I did, you know, so it's delicious oil. Yeah, no, very good. Um, but yeah, a bunch of great things like that. You know, as you know, we get great guests on and things like that.
+
+[33:01] So um, yeah, check it out. Patreon.com slash cooking issues, bunch of different membership levels. Um, if you want to participate, access to the Discord. Do we ask them about what guests they want? Yeah, I think they chime in in the Discord.
+
+[33:14] People make suggestions. Yeah, there's a suggestions channel in the Discord. Okay. Yeah, so there you go. Okay.
+
+[33:24] Uh all right. Uh so uh mathman writes in. My in-laws visited Hungary. I really want to go to Hungary. Need to go to Hungary.
+
+[33:33] Anyway. Uh my in-laws visited hunger. Because like you can just fly to Vienna and then drive, get a couple days in Vienna. See. Then drive out.
+
+[33:40] Yeah. See all the cool stuff. You know what I mean? All of it. Yeah.
+
+[33:44] Yeah. Never been. Never been to uh never been east of Vienna. Same. Not, you know, all the way.
+
+[33:51] Yeah. Anyway. Uh my in-laws visited Hungary and brought me back a few varieties of paprika. Sweet Hungarian, smoked Hungarian and smoked Spanish. Why should why are they bringing back smoked Spanish from Hungary?
+
+[34:02] Doesn't make any sense. Makes no sense. Anyway. Uh, what are some recipes to highlight their flavors and not be drowned out by a lot of other spices? I mean, I use a lot of uh paprika, often smoked, um often a mix of sweet and the the you know spicier ones so that I can get um you know much larger quantities of it in.
+
+[34:28] I almost exclusively use it in tomato-based recipes though, like uh the uh, you know, Shaksuka style things or um, you know, a lot of things like that. I'm trying to think of anything not, you know, I put it into my fake stuff cabbage that you know every people enjoyed it, whatever, even though it wasn't with the real meat. Um, I don't know, what else? What do you guys like it for? Mayos.
+
+[34:53] Oh, mayo? Yeah. Yeah, I'm a huge fan though. Uh next time your in-laws go, get and you can get it here, get some uh Harigo's pista and some Eros pista, which is the Universe brand of the Hungarian pepper pastes that are different levels of uh of spicy. And uh I've been using my own mix that is did I talk about this already?
+
+[35:19] Where I bought like 30 pounds of red jalapenos at the market. So at the end of the pepper season, jalapenos, you know, jalapenos go from green to red. I love the taste of red jalapenos. They're not super popular, I think, because they don't keep very long. Uh whereas, you know, green jalapenos keep almost forever, right?
+
+[35:36] Until they turn red. And then they're ripe. So I bought them for like at the farmer's market, like locally grown for like $3 a pound. And I bought like 30 pounds of it. And uh I took the cap off, you know, the green, sliced it, de-seated it, but not crazy.
+
+[35:54] It didn't go crazy on it, right? And then blended them with uh 11.5% salt, uh, 1.5% citric acid. Peppers have a lot of ascorbic. I didn't say this already. Peppers have a lot of ascorbic acid in them.
+
+[36:05] So they don't um they don't need vitamin C, but the uh adding a little bit more acid to them, uh dropping their pH a little bit helps maintain color. So uh, and then I added, I want to say about a quarter of a percent or a little less of Xanthan and just put it in the cuisine art and went boom and like turned it to a paste and stored it. Stored it at room temperature for I don't know, like a week or two. It does ferment a little bit, so it needs some space and then refrigerated, and it's pretty stable in the fridge after that. You don't need a refrigerator, it's not gonna go bad, but it does kind of you know puff up a little bit.
+
+[36:37] But after a couple of weeks of fermentation, it gets a little richer, a little rounder. Um delicious. And so there's a Hungarian version of that uh that I highly recommend that you get. And I use that in everything. You know what I mean?
+
+[36:52] Anyway, was that uh covered? Covered smothered some other cap. Discourse, Discord, bring us out your favorite uh things to use uh the paprika in. Frank M writes in, Dave, uh, have you mentioned the brand and model of grain mill that you use? Well, interesting question, Frank.
+
+[37:07] I have recently tested very many grain mills, seven to be exact, and uh there's only one major variety of grain mill I have not tested. So the kinds of grain mills that I have tested are the KitchenAid, don't use it. Uh Mock Mill 100 works fine. Uh the one I use, just see in case you want to stop listening, I use the Como Mio, K-O-M-O-MIO, M-I-O, because it's the cheapest by far of the Como line. It's very similar to the mock mill, but it's easier for me to clean.
+
+[37:40] The mock mill, I find you have to, the way that I grind, I have to clean them a lot because uh I grind them very fine. And so like I need to clean off the stones and all of this. I clean them off every time, and the mock mill is much harder to clean. And I find that the Como is just as repeatable. So that's the one I use.
+
+[37:56] But I've also tested a Red Cell. Eventually I'll do a video on this. I tested the Red Cell, I've tested impact mill, the uh Lee Royal, I've tested uh old old mills like the the one I used to own, the um the Mormon mill. The only one I haven't tested is the Neutra mill style slash uh if someone wants to send me a neutral mill to test or a whisper mill, great. That's an impact mill that works differently from the Lee uh Royal Organic Impact Mill.
+
+[38:22] So if anyone wants to send me one, I'll test it, I'll let you know. I've tested them extensively on the flower types and et cetera, et cetera. But that's what I use. Um I will say I I do have a use. If someone can find the kitchen aid metal mill uh cheaply.
+
+[38:38] Well, maybe you should have said this to me yesterday because I just threw one away, Quinn. If you would watch the video where I showed all of the things that I had, I just threw one away. They didn't. He gave it away Well, we don't own it anymore. Somebody took it.
+
+[38:56] Well, then maybe they're listening. It is good for like cracking harder uh grains and corn into like a coarser uh meal. Yeah, it's fine. I think hey, you know what's really fun is uh a fl an oat flaker, right? In fact, well, for kitchen aid, the only thing I would use it for is for beer making, basically.
+
+[39:17] Uh, you know, yeah, uh but uh I bought a uh you know Atlas Marcato, the the pasta roller that of note. Uh they make a they make a flaking mill. Bought that. You know what's delicious, people? Freshly flaked oats.
+
+[39:34] You know what tastes real good? Freshly flaked oats. So much better than no offense to the the ugly Quaker man on the Quake tube, but freshly, it's like the smell is just freaking great. Stasia's literally got her head down on the freaking table. Wake up.
+
+[39:53] Okay. Uh Mike C writes in hey, hoping to get some advice to ensure my breading sticks to fried chicken better and doesn't become soggy post-fried. My standard recipe for buttermilk fried chicken sandwiches starts with marinating the chicken and buttermilk and spices, and then add some buttermilk to the flour dredge to create some craggly bits and coat each piece of chicken liberally before frying off at 350. Uh, since I fry in batches, uh by the time the last pieces are done, the first ones come out of the wire rack. They are salgy.
+
+[40:19] The coating also pulls away from the meat. Any tips for breading that sticks better and remains crispy? Thanks, Mike C. All right. First of all.
+
+[40:28] Look, there are a zillion ways to make crispy fried chicken, right? So, like almost everyone who rates fried chicken for theoretical living, they give the the best in show to a place called Willie May's uh scotch house in New Orleans, and those weasels use wet on wet. They take it directly out of uh of a wet situation, uh put it and throw it into the fryer. So it's like it's crazy. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[40:55] So, like it's I think hard. So, you know, we had a fry consultant we spoke to and thinks that it's protein drip out of the uh chicken that's causing that that stuff to be uh as good. Um I use dry, I use I I dry off my chicken skin, like I air dry my chicken before I uh before I bread it, and I do dry, wet dry, and I don't have any kind of blast-off or or uncrispiness problems. So there are technical ways to solve this in terms of like how your batter form works, like whether whether it's dry beforehand, whatnot. And then there's also ingredient things.
+
+[41:32] You can make great crispy fried chicken without using any fancy technical ingredients. I'm just gonna say that. Some people use fancy technical ingredients and get a good product, but it is not necessary. Some people use uh all kinds of random starches and they can create great effects. Also, not necessary.
+
+[41:50] You can create them the same effects. There are many ways to a crispy fried chicken. One of the things I'm gonna say is I didn't see in your list any leaveners. You need a little bit of leavener in uh in one of these uh batters because if you don't leaven it, uh, so like this is what I'm told. Uh what happens is is as the water in the skin and chicken uh like turns to steam, if the crust isn't porous at all it's just gonna blast off it's just gonna get nuked off of the skin right so it needs to be somewhat porous and aerated with some sort of leavening to allow you to get all of the steam out of that that area without kind of blasting the blasting the crust off the other thing on adhesion you know if you're not gonna do a wet wet situation like Willie May Scotch house right I think in those situations it is better to have uh like a tack dry skin that also means there's less water to evaporate which I think makes adhesion easier right so I do a flour I do a flour dust then uh I put the uh I use buttermilk egg I think protein uh like a little protein like egg or you know my friend's uh theory about Willie May Scotch house the protein drip which sounds so gross all coming off of the chicken right like that uh some sort of protein in it to help kind of like glue the whole uh thing together um and like the leavener I put it in the in the wet so I have buttermilk egg and uh both soda and powder in in that so I go flour boom into that also my salt and pepper and stuff is in the liquid because I find that's a lot easier to dose than it is to dose into the flour and then into the flour.
+
+[43:32] If you want to do the little craggy bits, do the little craggy bits. Or just double dip the freaking chicken too. You know what I mean? Or some combination. It doesn't matter if they want to brine still.
+
+[43:45] Would you suggest just a water brine and then dry flour, buttermilk flour? I use uh I use a milk brine, not a buttermilk brine. And I've never tested it. It's just what I've done for the past 30 years. So I have a recipe on Food and Wines magazine that is like last time I checked was like five stars, eight billion ratings or something like that.
+
+[44:05] So if you want to know how I make my fried chicken in particular, you can look up my recipe on food and wines uh uh what's it called? Maybe it's four and a half. I don't know. But it's it's well-rated recipe. Just look it up.
+
+[44:16] And um, you know, I've made I made that chicken like every day, every Sunday for, you know, I don't know, 20 years, something like that. And so like I made a lot of it. Um that is I milk brined it. I don't know if it actually made a difference, but it was very salty, very wish. So I I would salt the milk until it tasted like the ocean.
+
+[44:39] I would add sugar to it until it cut the salt back a little bit, and I could start to taste the sugar. Sometimes I would add spice to it as well. Not that I know that it makes a difference, and I would soak it in that uh for a while and then uh you know, a couple of hours, and then air dry it for a couple of hours on a rack in the fridge, then flour, then my then you know, buttermilk egg. My issue with buttermilk brining and acidic brining in general is that for smaller pieces that you know you're gonna overcook, I think buttermilk and any sort of acid brine is good. So when I'm doing like tandoor style work where I'm gonna use very, very high heats on thin pieces of meat, I'll tend to use like a yogurt plus lemon juice style of brine.
+
+[45:19] But uh buttermilk on a big old piece of fried chicken as a brine, if you are not gonna overcook it, it can sometimes get a little fibery because the acid can break down the structure of the meat. Not always, sometimes. Especially on thinner pieces like tender's where like like buttermilk, I don't know how far the acid can actually soak in and affect the fibers, but I think a lot depends on whether they've beaten it or jack hard it. There's a lot of things. I just don't use acid in my in my fried chicken brine.
+
+[45:44] You know, whatever. Your mileage may vary. All right. Uh also you can get a good holding oven. Get an APO holding oven and keep it so that you're constantly getting extra moisture off of the offside.
+
+[46:02] Don't crowd your chicken when you're storing it on the racks. Um, yeah. You know, I would do it at like you can, well, you can do it if you have an APO or some sort of store. You want to store it such that the internal temperature doesn't rise too high, but you flash off uh enough enough moisture. It like the actual numbers depend entirely on the system you're using, but play around with it.
+
+[46:23] Um writes in, can we explain the protocol for long slow cooking of onions using the control freak? The control freak is the uh poly science slash breville uh induction unit. Temperatures, whether or not you regulate the temperature of the onions or the temperature of the pan, uh except uh pan, pan. Uh you set it just depending on how accurate it is, because the the accuracy actually goes down over time depending on how clean the sucker is and what kind of pan you're using. I use uh I use very thick uh Centaurian, uh Volra Centaurian pans that like you know are pretty good.
+
+[46:57] I put a load of onions in, and depending on the recipe, I'll use like when I'm making tomato soup, I use butter. When I'm you know doing something I want to be vegan, I'll use uh what's it called? Olive oil. Uh you can salt it or not, depending on again, what your end use is is for. And then I just cover it with a lid so that it can start steaming itself.
+
+[47:18] I set it at, you know, either I set it around 240 Fahrenheit. Uh, you know, you can leave it for like half hour, 45 minutes till it all goes down. Then I would lower it. Cause at 240, depending on like how your control freak is thinking about that day, you may get some browning or sticking to the bottom of the pan. So you may have to like spatule it up.
+
+[47:39] And then I turned it down to like 230, 235. I used to do 250, but I would get too much browning. So now I'm more like 240. And if there is a problem, I'll lower it, but I'll let it go for like two hours. You know what I mean?
+
+[47:49] Just move it around every once in a while with a spatula, you know, scrape off the bottom, good to go. You know what that's good on? Grilled cheese sandwiches. Oh my God. Like Gruyere, like like onions that you've like gone down like that for like two hours, rye bread, grill.
+
+[48:04] Or, you know, if you're a Conte person, Conte. You know what I mean? And then just crisp that sucker up. You know, like put it, I put it on my crepe maker, push it down. Yeah.
+
+[48:15] Yeah. Delicious. Delicious. Delicious. Right?
+
+[48:19] Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I like that stuff. You're just really in your head right now. Yeah.
+
+[48:23] I like that stuff on a hot dog. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, who doesn't love a good hot dog?
+
+[48:28] Oh, people who don't eat meat. And bad people. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[48:31] Well said. Well said. Um, all right. So Patrick C, a correction from a couple of weeks back. Morisher's porks, I was told this, which is good.
+
+[48:41] Thank God. Morisher's pork store in Ridgewood closed, but Ridgewood pork store is still open. So the ridge. Thank God. Right?
+
+[48:48] Uh, it sells whole cabbage leaves in Brian. The brand is Brian's from North Macedonia. Not sure if it's the exact same thing you mentioned, but very good. All right. Thanks, Patrick.
+
+[48:56] Thank you. Uh Rock Baker says, What's up with ultrasonic treatment? There was a recent uh post uh in the uh regarding the Hawksmore martini. Can you explain what's happening? No.
+
+[49:09] Listen, when you're ultrasounding something, you're just shaking the ever loving crap out of it at uh high frequency. So, you know, uh it has an effect, right? I used to use it for emulsifying like small amounts of oil into things to make quote unquote milks. There have always been people who have done things like sonicate seawater. They say there's all sorts of effects, and yes, it's possible.
+
+[49:34] I don't know. I haven't done a lot of side by side, but I'm not like let me put it this way. I owned one for a long time. It got eaten by rats about five years ago. Mice, actually, field mice.
+
+[49:45] It got eaten by field mice about five years ago. So I haven't had one. I've used an ultrasonic bath. I've never had an application where I'm like, this is what I need to do with my life. Right?
+
+[49:55] Yeah. I've done some ultrasound stuff uh with uh with some electronic equipment. Pretty cool. Well, for cleaning. Yeah, man.
+
+[50:01] We had during Hurricane Sandy, um, our our our our studio console got soaked salt water. And we had to literally I I was uh I was working as head engineer at the studio and the owner came in, he's like, he brought up a garden hose and we just washed this the whole console down with water. Just to get the salt water out of it. And then we took each bucket out and put into this ultrasound and it came back to life. Nice.
+
+[50:25] It was beautiful. Yeah, no, for cleaning, they're great. And my dad used to build ultrasound machines, so I used to sit around uh bored out of my skull with an ultrasound machine, just like zapping various, like looking at the insides of various parts of my body back in the day. So ultrasound has its applications. From a food standpoint, I know that uh the modernist folks loved uh sonicated French fries.
+
+[50:46] I tried them, thought they were fine. I wasn't like, I need to get an ultrasound bath big enough to make a quantity of French fries that's reasonable. You know what I mean? Cause, you know, Nastasi, an ultrasonic bath is enough to make French fries for Nastasia because she wants zero. You know what I mean?
+
+[50:59] Yeah. But for the rest of us who want to eat a finite and larger amount of fries, you know what I mean? Anyway. Uh and the second question from Rock Baker. Uh regarding quince is any cocktail suggestions.
+
+[51:18] Is it necessary to cook prior to juicing? Well, listen, that's up to you. Like, do you want the astringency or do you not? I like if you get a very, very fragrant quince. Quince is one of those things where I have to pick them out individually myself.
+
+[51:32] I will not order them from somebody because they're so different. But uh, I think they're very good in non-alk with the astringency. So don't uncooked, juiced with the astringency, and as an adjunct to other flavors in non-alcoholic drinks, they bring some of the, as we like to say, to them. So I like them for that. Umstasia.
+
+[51:56] Literally just went like this into the microphone. Okay. My fart smell. Wow. So good to have you back in the studio, Stas.
+
+[52:05] Man. So good. All right. Uh am I gonna cover, this is from Xander. Am I gonna cover other emulsifiers like egg whites, methyl cellulose, uh, or other like you know, fake ticaloid for cold drinks with fats other than butter and liquid intelligence tube.
+
+[52:23] Not sure. I can't remember whether I did. I don't know that I'm gonna come up with a bunch of other drinks for it. I think I talk about it more. I've already written that section, but it was so long ago that I don't remember.
+
+[52:33] Anyway, uh, I found making my capiferi's sour syrup with three grams of uh my ticaloid mix works well to a muscle emulsify oil and booze without being too slimy or foamy, uh, unless it's got a sour element. Yep, it's true. Uh also, uh, what about uh using nitrous oxide pressure uh infusion? Uh we'll just say rapid infusion because that's a lot faster into oil, into oil before fat washing into booze. Uh I was captivated by Ariel Johnson's take on making an alcoholic mush to infuse into oil.
+
+[53:01] I tried it with basil and then, but I didn't test it against basil that was infused into the vodka straight. Um I've never done it, but I mean it clearly works. Nitrous oxide is very soluble in fats. That's why it's used in whipped cream. So it should work.
+
+[53:14] Whether it gives you a better result than doing it into booze, that only you can tell me. You have to run the test. You know what I'm saying? They're, you know, just something I have to test. Also, remember, things aren't better or worse often, just different.
+
+[53:25] Ashgosh Bagash says, uh, I sent my wife to pick up some granada seasoning peppers at the market. They're supposed to taste like habaneros, but have near zero heat. All right. You said that they taste good. I don't believe I mean, not that I don't believe you, but like Ahi Dulce, I don't think that everyone's like, oh, they're like habaneros, but they don't have any, they don't have any heat, but I don't think they taste like habaneros.
+
+[53:45] I don't think they're as delicious as habaneras. Have you guys ever had a non-hot habanero that tastes as good as a habanero? I only had that habanata pepper once, and that was a while ago. I don't remember. No remember.
+
+[53:57] Yeah. If it was awesome, don't you think you would have remembered? Probably. You know, you would have been like, this is the best pepper. Oh my god, all the flavor of habanero.
+
+[54:05] Oh my god. Oh, by the way, Stas, you'll enjoy this if you wake up to listen to it. Uh I don't know till 4 a.m. Uh okay. Uh um.
+
+[54:19] Uh they're supposed to taste like habaneros, but have near zero heat. In this instance, either the farmer gave us the wrong pepper or they have a cross-pollination problem because a quarter of these peppers are incredibly spicy, which won't work for my pickle plan. Is there a way to test heat without having to lick each one? Yeah. Uh well, oh shagash.
+
+[54:40] I think you need to go back to a cultural situation where it's okay to lick your food beforehand. Because there is no way for you to know. I looked it up. If you have more money than good sense and more time than good sense, you can go to the Atagene Corporation and get their capsation detection kits. And for only a hundred and nine dollars, you can get 10 tests to test uh the Scoville uh heat units of each on what looks like a COVID slash pregnancy test.
+
+[55:11] So you get the pepper to pee onto the little stick. And then after your pea's on the stick, you can read off based on like how much of the lines on, how much capsation is present in. Or you could just be like an intern to do that. There you go. Yeah.
+
+[55:29] Here's what I would do. I would lick so if you're gonna pickle them, are you gonna pickle them whole? You could do a stab test and then lick the stabby. Stab and lick. Stab and lick.
+
+[55:40] Anyway, lick your mouth is great at sensing these things. Anyway. Lick it. Use the tongue, you cowards. Anyway.
+
+[55:51] Uh oh, by the way, Stas, you'll appreciate it. It's called a rapid dipstick test. Oh wow. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[55:57] We should get that for free. We should get a discount on any rapid dipstick test. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Positive MD writes in.
+
+[56:05] Do we have a good standard Porchetta recipe? I'm looking to make this for Thanksgiving. I wanted to see if there's a community consensus for the best way to prepare this. I don't. Community, weigh in on the Discord, please.
+
+[56:14] Uh I'll look into it. I'll ask uh I asked Sal at uh DiPalo's because their porqueta's really good. I ask him every once in a while. He's like, I put it in the oven and then it tums out good. You know what I mean?
+
+[56:23] I'll ask him again though. He said he was gonna put it in the cookbook, but then they didn't. Yeah. I I have a really crazy uh porquet technique that I've done once or twice. Okay.
+
+[56:35] I don't know if it's uh community consensus good, but I take the porchetta, I do the standard, you know, melting seasoning, wrap it up, and I basically rotate and shallow fry the porchetta until the belly reaches like 85 Celsius, but the level of the oil is enough so that it's really not touching the loin. Okay. And then you finish it off in the oven. So you revert you do it opposite, like most of the time you do like the slow and then blast it at the end to get the crispy. You do it the other way.
+
+[57:18] Obviously, shallow frying uh sort of a low temperature to get the belly to the right temperature, then low temperature oven, then take it out, then blast it. Ideally, I would like a solution that you can just stick into an oven and walk away from and then crank the oven one way or the other and walk away. But we'll we'll see what people come and then we'll talk about it again. Uh Justin S. uses a handheld rotary grater to grape chocolate uh and wants to know if there is a better cheese grater that to use for chocolate without melting it.
+
+[57:50] Do you guys have any a great, like a lot of a lot amount of chocolate? No. I don't think it's a lot of things. Put it in the freezer before getting it. Yeah, I mean, I have a like you can use power graters, like I like my my grater works, but it's I don't know.
+
+[58:02] I gotta think about it. No. I gotta think about it, Justin S. Uh, Kevin McHugh, I made uh key apple cider pie. So if you know, fake key, like you know, acid adjusted using farmers market, cider, and four tasters all agree that there was nothing apple in the flavor.
+
+[58:14] I acidulated with malloc exclusively to play on the apple and was left with generic sour sweet, vaguely fruity flavor. And what might I do to make the apple punchier? Use juice. Once it's cider, like it tastes like cider, which then tastes more generic. You gotta juice the apple with ascorbic acid so that it maintains its like apple, you know, its individual apple flavor.
+
+[58:33] But also, apple, maybe it's too weak. You might need to use like double or triple and then and then uh jack the uh what's it called? What's that thing? Egg in it. I don't know, but it's it's interesting because you know you had good results, it says with passion fruit and guava.
+
+[58:46] Elliot from Berkeley mentioned in an episode a while ago that uh I should get the old on food and cooking as well as the new. Why do I want the old? What did Ghee McGee remove? All of the history and lore got nuked. There's no more history and lore, even though it's called on food and cooking, the history and lore uh kitchen.
+
+[59:03] There is no more history and lore. All of that was in uh in book quantity one. Um, Harris, I have some stuff on Burex, but we only have seven seconds. Here's what I'm gonna recommend that you do. I would recommend that you look up this article: physical, physiochemical, and rheological properties of baklava flowers produced in Turkey uh by Savik in 2013, where they go through uh the uh things that are uh, you know, the all of the quantities, the wet gluten, the non, all of that, ash, uh, for uh good things for baklava, which is a similar problem.
+
+[59:37] I will say that uh lower extraction, so uh flowers that are taken from the center of wheat uh is tend to be better in the studies that people have done. We'll get to the other questions the next time we're back. You know, I'm gonna see if I can do something from uh Barcelona, but I don't know, has yet to be determined. Talk to you guys later. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan Rugger Fellow Center in New York City News Dance Studios. Joined as usual with John City Crossman. How are you doing, John? Doing great.
+
+[0:21] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, good. Yeah. All right. Missed a couple of weeks there.
+
+[0:26] Yeah, no, it's true. Yeah. Got Joe rocking the panels. What's up? Hey, how are you doing?
+
+[0:30] Good to see you. Doing well, doing well. It's kind of looks cool. I used to have this rule like the worse I feel, the brighter the colors I would wear so that people wouldn't look at me. Anyway, uh got uh over there on the West Coast in her new official homeland, Nastasia the Hammer Lopez.
+
+[0:49] Hi. How are you doing? Yeah, you're no longer you no longer have ties to our coast at all. No, I know. I know.
+
+[0:58] You lit all you lit all that crap on fire. How did your uh well, we could talk about your garage sale later. Also over on that coast, we got uh Miss Year La Molecules. Jack, how you doing? Yup, I'm good.
+
+[1:09] How are you? Good. And holding down the upper left corner, Quinn. What's up? Okay, good.
+
+[1:18] Uh and we do not have, unfortunately, our special guest for today, Osai Endolin. Uh she's under the weather. So hopefully we'll reschedule and come back. And is it next week? Next week is our Thanksgiving week.
+
+[1:31] So if any of you guys have any Thanksgiving questions and don't want to listen to our Stas, how many back back episodes do we have? A billion? Or it's like five billion. Thanksgiving. Yeah, Thanksgiving episodes we've had probably 13 or 14.
+
+[1:47] How long have we been doing this crap? I believe it's 14 years. Yeah, 2020 was that. Oh my god, what a bad idea. Anyway, so if you don't feel like going back and listening to all 14 years of Thanksgiving's, you can ask us your Thanksgiving emergency related uh things.
+
+[2:06] But unless you're a Patreon listener, it's gonna be too late because you won't be able to listen to it until Friday after Thanksgiving's already over. So, John, you want to tell them how they can become a member of Patreon? Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Uh there's a couple different membership levels, perks with all the different um levels, uh access to Patreon discounts with Kitchen Arts and Letters and other and uh Groven Vine and Glassvin and all these other great companies. Um check it out.
+
+[2:31] Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Yeah. And uh if you are a Patreon listener, we're uh you can call in live to a 917-410-1507. That's 917 410 1507. And then in this week before Thanksgiving, let me just say, even if you are a Patreon listener and you're listening and it's Tuesday next week, it is too late to start thawing your turkey.
+
+[2:51] Let me just tell you this right now. It is too late unless you're using a very tiny turkey, or unless you really like uh fuddling around with uh frozen turkey. How much do you hate fussing around with a frozen turkey, John? I have managed to always plan accordingly, so I've never had to deal with it. Yeah, you can force okay, you can force thaw a turkey in running water.
+
+[3:14] It's not ideal. You know what I mean? And you can speed the thaw a little bit by putting into a brine, right? But uh classic first time uh cooking Thanksgiving error is to buy a frozen turkey and then be like, it's gonna thaw in like a couple of hours, like a chicken, right? Nope.
+
+[3:34] Nope. Uh well, you know, actually, previous guest on the show, Chris Young, didn't make a video about how to cook for frozen and actually recommend it. Yeah. Interesting to check out. I'm gonna go ahead and say I don't believe that even for a second.
+
+[3:44] I think maybe he can do it. I think it's gonna cause a lot of lots of problems. Like, unless you have really good temperature control, I'm saying that the average person isn't gonna go through the steps required to get to temperature control required to cook from frozen. And I'll also say this there is a was back in the beginnings of low temperature cooking. There was a huge movement to sear meat from frozen and then cook it from frozen.
+
+[4:16] The theory being that you could sear the outside of the meat quite a bit, right? Without cooking the center at all, at all. And then you would cook it through. However, after numerous side-by-side taste tests of both cooking styles where it was frozen and where it wasn't frozen, every single person we gave it to was like, yeah, I kind of prefer the one that was done more traditionally. So I'm gonna go ahead and say I don't believe it, but I'm willing to have a side-by-side.
+
+[4:38] I'm willing to have this eye by side if someone's gonna cook for me. I'm not willing to do the side by side because I don't have the space for two turkeys, uh, or enough people to eat them all. But uh, that's my that's my theory on that. And by the way, theory born of uh lots of experimentation over many years. But okay.
+
+[4:57] Now, uh, what do you guys got going this week? Anything uh this week of last past week. Stas, how'd your uh like Nastasia sold all of her goods that she had in Stamford? Or that that she could did the sale go well? Did people buy?
+
+[5:12] No, people came in, they wanted to take photos of the house, they wanted to take photos of the view, and then the sad part is that they look at your stuff and they're like judging your tastes based on your stuff, and then you're like, I want ten dollars for this thing, and they're like, How about 50 cents? And it actually costs you like a hundred, so you just but you don't want to move it yourself. It's a sad process. I hated it. I don't think it's not your style of thing because you don't really like to you don't really you're not really like someone who likes to talk to people you don't know or haggle with them right.
+
+[5:43] I kinda I kinda wish I was there because if I had been there I would have helped you out a little bit like you would have been holding this thing up. They would have said they would have said can I have this for fifty cents I just would have taken it from their hands and thrown it in the ocean I know and never stuff. I mean not stuff that you know it's like when we did our sale did we talk about this when we did our sale? No did we mention it? I don't remember.
+
+[6:06] No I don't even mention it. Yeah yeah well I hope I hope the people I hope the patrons that have our have formerly our stuff are enjoying the now their stuff right that's what I hope. Yeah you don't want things to get wasted like in fact I like tend to I tend to buy things like sometimes I want things new because I don't trust what people have done to them but I buy use most of the time stuff like equipment that like still has a lot of life in it because I feel bad like like creating more garbage. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[6:41] Yeah. Um what how was the move otherwise okay it was okay yeah it was okay just sad. Yeah you have any uh sad and happy at the same time right you're like crap on this coast boom how big of a how big of a like a uh a toot did you give did you like go in all the cushions that were left in your apartment and be like toot away and then leave? That's what Nastasian. No, I did.
+
+[7:08] I did leave some. Oh, mean or okay notes. No, like warnings, you know. Uh, yeah. Beware the landlord.
+
+[7:18] Anyway. Uh have you had any uh good food incidents over the past week? Um, I know my man Jack probably went to a decent restaurant. What's up? Uh I didn't, but I went to St.
+
+[7:34] Augustine in Florida to see some family, and uh had some really good blackened gator tail. So that's always nice. Okay, a couple of questions here. I've never been to St. Augustine, but like what portion of it is the oldest city?
+
+[7:46] Is that is like one building left? Is there like one stone? Like what whatever it's like a little historic tourist district with all the old buildings and stuff. It's you know, it's a nice little area, but it's very like uh I don't know, like what you would imagine like uh the French or Spanish section of Epcot would look like. You know what I mean?
+
+[8:07] Oh and what kind of chotch geese do they sell there? I mean the standard stuff. Uh honestly, uh, not political show. A lot of MAGA stuff though. Yeah, well, Florida, hello.
+
+[8:18] Uh I uh I used to love first of all, I went through various stages of my life. When I was a kid, loved chotchkis. Loved them. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[8:29] I mean, like, find me show me a kid that doesn't like like a little garbage tchotchke to put in their room and throw away 20 years later. Find me a kid. You know what I mean? And then my parents would never buy that crap. That's what grandparents were for.
+
+[8:40] They would buy you the stupid chotch key, and you'd end up coming home with like uh uh they used to take animals in like when they were I don't know whether they killed them or waited for I guess they killed them, and then they would set them in resin. Have you seen these? Like turtles like set in resin. Yeah, puffer fish set in resin. Yeah.
+
+[8:57] And I would show up at home with those, and my mom's like, what the hell? What are we gonna do with this? I'm like, I'm gonna put it in my room in 20 years, you know, I can tell you not to throw it out, and then in thirty years you can throw it out without telling me. That's basically life. Anyway, I went from that stage to liking to go to Tchotchki shops to see the ridiculous things.
+
+[9:14] So now I don't even I can't even walk into those places anymore. You know what I mean? Yeah. There was a woolly mammoth tusk on sale for sixty thousand dollars. And and what was the provenance of said tusk?
+
+[9:25] How can you how can they like do you are you trusting are you trusting some Saint Augustine Tchotchke dealer with free game selling you a sixty thousand dollar and and what is the market? What is the market for me being in a tourist trap, walking in and being like, you know what? That sold. Yeah. Sold.
+
+[9:46] Yeah, YOLO, YOLO. I'm grabbing it. No, I know. I agree. It was confid and then you can microplane it over risotto as like uh like like a as a supplement.
+
+[9:56] I mean, that'll be the money, right? Anyway. I used to when I was a kid, before I knew it was a terrible idea, used to buy ivory quite a bit, like not fresh ivory, please. No, no calls. You know what I mean?
+
+[10:07] I used to do scrimshaw as a kid, and uh ivory dust smells kind of like burning hair. It's not the best for your lungs. Anyway. That was a weird tangent. Uh what about what about uh Quinn or John?
+
+[10:19] What do you guys got? I got something. Uh oh, okay. What do you got? Uh we broke down a duck this weekend.
+
+[10:28] So we did uh duck wings, uh steered duck breast with a chanterelle, crispy clay pot rice, and I did a duck leg, uh adoba like Filipino style. Pretty good. Now, uh, what kind of clay pot do you have? My dad buys whatever's on Facebook marketplace. I don't know what that means.
+
+[10:53] Like, are we talking like a Chinese clay pot? Are we talking like a Colombian clay pot? Are we talking about looks like a Chinese style, yeah? I've recently uh so it's it, you know what's interesting about uh you're familiar with high fire versus low fire ceramics. So I mean high sure.
+
+[11:09] Yeah, right. And glaze versus not. So I recently one of the issues with a lot of the higher fire ceramics actually, even though they're all oven proof and they're non a lot of them are non-porous because they're fully vitrified and a lot of them are glazed. So for instance, my bean pot, right? If something says it's stoneware, right, or ironware, those are high fired, right?
+
+[11:29] And they're typically harder, they're less liable to chip, uh, typically less porous. Um, but in general, you don't put them over direct flame, right? Whereas some of the lower fired pots can be put over direct flame. And so I picked up uh you ever guys ever cooked one of these lachamba pots? You familiar?
+
+[11:51] So in Colombia, they have a a micaceous clay in this near this village in the village, I believe is called La Chamba. And uh it's kind of like you can only call it La Chamba if it's from there, and the clay deposits that are near this river are owned by the town. So only townsfolk can make it, right? You can't have like an outside person come in, buy all the clay, and manufacture it in New Jersey and sell it as Lachamba. It's all comes from La Chamba.
+
+[12:16] Uh none of it's thrown on a wheel, it's all molded, but it goes through this in, you know, everyone has their own job. You know what I mean? Like, you know, I I make the pot blanks, I do the handles. It's kind of one of those things. But uh what they do after they uh after they, you know, rough form the pot is one of the person's jobs is to sit there with a smooth agate stone that looks like you know, like you've rock tumbled it, and sit there and hand polish the the leather hard implement until it's fundamentally glossy.
+
+[12:45] With and then it's low-fired, but because they rub it so much, it doesn't absorb a lot of liquid. It absorbs some liquid, but not a lot. So it's kind of in between being porous and not porous. But what's cool is you can put it directly on a fire. And they low fire them in these like kind of big uh, you know, like kind of outside kilns, and then after they're fired at a relatively low temperature, about 750 Celsius, for those of you that are ceramic heads, that's very low.
+
+[13:10] They then uh cover it uh so that oxygen can't get to it anyone, smoke it out, and it comes out black. So it looks really cool. And in fact, Rancho Gordo, Steve Sando, who's coming on uh in a couple of weeks, he is a big fan of LaCamba pots, especially for bean cooking. So maybe we can talk more about lachamba. So guys, get your lachamba questions in.
+
+[13:29] The only lachamba I have right now, I saw it when I was in Columbia, you know, every when I used to go to Columbia, but the only one I have is a four-quart, almost four-quart bean pot, so it can hold almost two quarts of two pounds of beans. For those of you that don't know, uh it's about two quarts to hold a pound of beans once they're once they're cooked in a in a bean pot. For those of you that are, I don't know, looking up bean pots, everyone should own a bean pot. I mean, I guess gonna go ahead and say that everyle clay pot or dinabe apparently some of the images he bought sorry he's it's a funny story. He's bought two separate clay pots from Facebook.
+
+[14:14] They were listed like weeks apart. But it's the same lady, and we suspect that she somehow has hundreds of these? You should just ask slowly dueling them out. You should just ask. Like that's what when someone has more than one thing, I'm like, how many you got?
+
+[14:33] You got the one I want? Yeah, but she wouldn't let them inside. Yeah, you don't have to let it inside. You can say, I'm looking for this. Do you have it?
+
+[14:40] You know what I mean? If you're looking for something different from what you've already have. They make really big lachamba pots. I kind of they make like lachamba griddles, like camals. I'm kind of interested in the idea of like a clay camal.
+
+[14:53] You know? But where would I use it? Nowhere. Nowhere. You know where you know where I can have big wood fires these days?
+
+[14:59] Oh wait, nowhere, because I don't have an outside anymore. July. Uh you and me both. You live in LA, you can pick wherever you want. No, no.
+
+[15:10] It's not like Jack and I don't have backyards. What? What about all these things? Every time I visited you, you have an outdoor space that you can F with. That's because you and I rent places that are like really nice.
+
+[15:22] Ah, I see. Yeah, those are Airbnb's. Do you do you are you renting a lean to? Like people live in you live in a house or you live in an apartment? Or do you live in an apartment that's part of the house?
+
+[15:34] It's like uh like a little, yeah. Yeah. It's like a little top of a wait, wait, what? Well, what's give me the scenario. How tall is your building?
+
+[15:46] How many floors? Uh it's it's like little bungalows. Okay. Well, you have a door to the outside then, do you not? Yeah.
+
+[15:58] Alright. You got an outside. All right. Uh yeah. Find me someone in New York who has a door that opens to the outside, and I'll show you a rich person.
+
+[16:08] You know what I mean? Like, we have doors that open onto hallways. That's how we roll. You know what I mean? Anyway.
+
+[16:15] Yeah. Yeah. You're familiar. You lived here for a long time. Anyway.
+
+[16:19] Imagine I have I used to grill in my hallway. Let me just put it to you this way. Like back when I lived in my illegal loft on 38th Street, like we had a fire, uh, like a fire stairwell that was internal to the building. And I used to go out there and grill, and it was fundamentally it was it was kind of outside, but it was like a fire stairwell. So it was like kind of in the hallway until I accidentally set off the fire alarm.
+
+[16:43] And the fire department had to run up 20 flights of stairs because they didn't want to take the elevator because they thought there might be a fire. And they weren't happy with me, like at all. I had a big grill too. I wasn't talking like you know those little smoky joes, those little miniature grills that everyone gets in New York to try to get away with with grilling on their fireplace. No, this was a giant char broiler, like could hold like 30 pounds of charcoal.
+
+[17:06] It was like, I was real grilling anyway. And uh they didn't get me in too much trouble because when they asked me, I think I said this on the air several times, but they said, uh, what the hell are you doing? You can't do that. And I go, tastes better. And then they left.
+
+[17:21] That was all that's all that happened to me. Weird. Uh I mean, it was, you know, a long time ago. Pre 9 11. Uh, okay.
+
+[17:29] Uh oh, what about you, John? You haven't weighed in. I was l well, air quote, lucky enough to have Saturday off. Uh we had to close the restaurant because there were some issues happening with the building. You want to say what they are?
+
+[17:44] Were, hopefully. Yeah, I mean, listen, it's an old building. There have been plumbing issues, or no backups or things like that, but just unpleasant odors. Um just like didn't, yeah. Didn't smell good.
+
+[17:58] Um someone was pooping through the ceiling. Yeah, no, it's it's way worse than that. How could it be worse than pooping through the ceiling? Uh it's we'll get into later. Now you have everyone's brain turning trying to figure out what could be worse than somebody pooping through the ceiling.
+
+[18:17] The point where all the sewage pipes from the building flow into the city's pipes are broken and not working the way they ought to be. Sweet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's great.
+
+[18:32] Um, so yeah, whatever. Had Saturday night off. Uh went to demo and had an dry edge pork chop, which more restaurants need to be doing because a good pork chop is absolutely delicious. And so, like how do you like uh the inside rosy, right? Yeah.
+
+[18:47] Yeah. Yeah. Um how offended are you by a little bit of extra pinkness around the bone when it goes rosy? Or do you think they should hit a little more on the bone so that that does so it doesn't get that little thing near the bone? Like a little more fire right right on the other side of the bone cooked for weight.
+
+[19:00] I guess that'd be nice, but I won't nitpick. Yeah. Um people freak the hell out. Yeah, no, I know. People get it oh, they really do.
+
+[19:06] Yeah, they do. Oh my god, it's not cooked. I'm like, oh Jesus. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[19:11] You know what I mean? Is it cooked? Am I gonna get sick? You are gonna get sick and you're gonna die most likely, unless you get hit by a bus. Exactly.
+
+[19:18] At some point in your life. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, and then went to Contra.
+
+[19:22] Um, nice, yeah. Champagne boat. Okay, so uh, yeah, that's one thing we have in the last week. Shot boat is on the is on the menu. So, like uh years, years in the making.
+
+[19:34] So, like at one of at existing conditions, I was like, you know what? Uh everybody loves like a cheesy sushi boat. Like, like, you know, uh uh aside from the quality of the sushi, as long as the quality of the sushi is okay, you like it when it comes on like a big wooden boat. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[19:50] Cause yeah. So I'm like, hey, what if you did a sushi boat, but with liquor with shots, shot boat. So then I bought a boat, I made, I made a like a deck. I made three decks actually that held shot glasses. It turned out that we don't end up using them.
+
+[20:04] It's better just to bury the shot glasses and ice. So the current, and for some reason we can never get it to work at XCON. I'm not gonna go into the politics of how XCON worked, but we can never get it to work at XCON. So at Contra, I'm like, we're gonna do the boat. So I rescued the boat out of storage before we divested ourselves of everything that we owned, and now we're doing it.
+
+[20:22] And the gimmick is that we line up uh five uh 16 shot glasses, right? And into those 16 shot glasses, we pour so two lines of seven and then two in the middle. We pour an entire bottle of champagne. Real champagne stars, by the way. Not no sparkling wine, real champagne.
+
+[20:41] Also, I went to your I went to your bar too. That's what my food thing is. You went, oh yeah, but I was there. Yeah, yeah. I remember that.
+
+[20:48] Yeah, but you probably won't talk about it because you're with people you won't talk about. We were there with Ariel, Ariel, you'll talk about. Yeah. Yeah. Um Stasia brings someone, goes like, don't talk about it.
+
+[20:59] Uh so anyway, so then after we empty the bottle of champagne into the uh into the shot glasses, and we were testing some of the stuff when you were there, we then put a bunch of cordials into it. So for about 55 mils of champagne, we put 6.6 mils of 50 bricks, 2% acid, all the cordials for this are 50 bricks, so 50% sugar by weight and 2% acid. You don't want six because it's too sour for the champagne. Champagne already brings its own acidity with it. So you fundamentally want this cordial to be slightly acidic, but not very much.
+
+[21:28] So and it's rainbow, Roigi Biv. So the red is strawberry, the O is orange is passion fruit, the yellow is saffron honey, the uh the G is kiwi green, uh B is uh B is orange because orange Curacao, it's blue. So we do a reduced orange cordial. Uh I, the indigo is some sort of shiso one, which is the only one I haven't actually tried because I that wasn't I was in Barcelona during the development of that one. And the last one's Concord Grape, everyone's favorite Concord grape, and then two planes so you can taste the champagne on its own.
+
+[22:04] A bargain at any price. So uh yeah, and then we're numbering them. So uh, you know, John got shot boat number two. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know what we're up to now.
+
+[22:12] Yeah, so we give you the menu, we write your number on it. Just like uh La Tour d'Arjon, which I've never been to and probably will never go to, but uh when you get a pressed duck at La Tour d'Arjon, which I guess means the Silver Tower, or my money tower, Silver Tower. Either, I guess. But yeah, probably the Silver Tower fan, to guess. Yeah, but I prefer if you were gonna go to an American, like an English named restaurant, would you rather go to Money Tower or would you rather go to Silver Tower?
+
+[22:37] Silver Tower. Really? I think so. Money tower. Yeah.
+
+[22:40] Anyway, uh when you get a pressed duck there, they number it and they give you a certificate sell. We're stealing that idea from them. Amazing. Yeah. Uh all right.
+
+[22:49] Oh, and the other thing I did this week was I was in Barcelona hanging out with uh Harold McGee and Tracy Chang from uh Pagu in uh Boston. We went to uh a bunch of good uh restaurants, but I'll say this I ate so much ham. I ate an unconscionably large amount of uh Bayota fed uh Hamoni Berico. So you know, for those of you that you know aren't hip to ham or whatever, like there's various grades, but the highest grades of Spanish ham are made from 100% uh iberico pigs, the pata negra, right? So that's the breed, um, you know, which are known for producing great hams.
+
+[23:28] Not very good mothers. So here's I was at a farm actually uh near Manresa, and they were breeding uh 50% Durac, which is you know a breed that's common here in America, with 50% uh iberico pigs, and they say that you, you know, you get a lot more uh yield, like like bigger litters and like they're better mothers, so it's better kind of they're better producers, like the the durac iberico splits, which led me to believe hey, maybe you could do IVF for pigs. They do IVF for cows, and they're working on IVF for pigs, but why not do IVF with a hundred percent patinegra stock into something like a Durok, a very good mother, so that you could get much larger litters that were easier to wean because you have the genetics of the good mothering on the one, then you could you could jack the production of Pata Negra hands. But then above just the the the style of you know, the the genetics of the pig, you have the feeding regimen. So the the highest level is called Bayota, where they're fed on a farm for you know most of their life, and then for the last I forget however many months, they're turned loose and they eat acorns.
+
+[24:31] And by the way, I picked up an acorn off the ground where I was, even though it's not, it's not the same area, and it's the best tasting acorn I've ever picked up off the ground and eaten. And I've done that multiple times. It was the least astringent of all the acorns. Anyway, so whenever there was a lull, I would slink off by myself to buy uh ham. I bought ham in the airport.
+
+[24:44] I bought ham. Everywhere I could, I would go buy ham. I'll say this. You know how when you go to a Spanish place, they have the first of all, they don't slice it the way that we slice it here typically. They're slicing it long ways.
+
+[25:02] The ham is held like almost like you would cradle a baby and then you'd slice it, not like you know, obviously the baby analogy stops, but like you slice it along the grain to make these pieces, and they can choose different parts of the ham. Now, most places don't have infinity ham sitting out. They have like, you know, one to four ham sitting out there sliced. So what the meat tastes like is very dependent on where in the ham they are when they're slicing and where they're gonna take the pieces off of, as well as the skill of the slicer. So I never thought that I would be for buying pre-sliced ham.
+
+[25:35] But here's the great thing. When you go buy pre-sliced ham, so they have the places there and they're slicing it by hand, but I can go pick the style of ham that I like, pre-sliced, and then I can flip through it like a record store. Like you're at a vintage record store. I'm like flipping through, like, nope, nope, nope, nope, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not nope, nope, nope, not marbled enough. And then you find it and you can get exactly what you want.
+
+[25:56] You want it chewier, so you get ones that have like longer uh grain lines in it. You want like more fat, less fat, more marbling, more little crystals. So I'm gonna go ahead and say that for this style of ham that is sliced in a traditional way, sliced in the traditional direction, it is actually much better to buy it pre-packaged, unless you happen to be lucky and look at the ham that is on the counter and be like, oh yeah, that's what I want right now. Huh? In fact, in one of the places I went, I ate the second quality ham instead of the first quality ham because the position of cutting of the second quality ham was much higher than of the first quality ham.
+
+[26:34] All right, enough of it. Enough of ham. Enough of ham. Uh I had some good food too, though. I don't know.
+
+[26:41] I mean, what's to say it's food. Yeah. You know what I mean? Had woodcock. Now, Nastasia, the woodcock that they served was a lot less messy than the one where I was accidentally spitting BBs all over you at Hicks and you almost threw up at the middle of dinner.
+
+[26:55] Remember that? Yeah. So we were at Hicks and they served us like kind of like, you know, lightly cooked, like semi-rotten grouse and woodcock. And uh Spetchcock look woodcock? Not even just like whole like gooey and like with the babies in it.
+
+[27:12] And so like, you know, like you have to pick it up, and so like, you know, all this stuff was like sticking to your fingers and like it's a hor it's a horror show. It's uh it's like American horror show, but in England. And Stas was like, I'm not hungry anymore. You've ruined my appetite. That's pretty much what happened, right?
+
+[27:26] So gross. Yes. Yes. That was after a day at the Brogdale eating pears and oakwogs, I think. Yeah, so you were already your stomach was already primed.
+
+[27:37] Although we we we had a really good time there, unlike the time McGee and I went there and they, you know, k they kicked us out. Like we had a really good time. We ate some really, really good stuff. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[27:50] Um oh, by the way, the presentation I gave at Barcelona was about the ostensibly about texture. And uh in the couple of days going up to it, I was actually testing the viscosity of various uh various things. So, like, you know, for those of you that have heard me talk about this ad nauseum, you know, when you're gonna lower the alcohol or sugar in a beverage or both, you have to uh change the body of it because it loses its body. So I use either something called polydextrose, which uh, you know, is uh well, it's polymerized dextrose, but it's from being mildly sweet to non-sweet, depending on which one you get, but you can add it almost one-to-one for sugar to replace the body or glycerin. And I discovered that uh it's in my opinion, it's not the viscosity that does the that does the the magic work because I was testing viscosities on a on like a real you know, a viscometer and that that wasn't it wasn't enough.
+
+[28:47] Anyway, uh so that's what I was talking about uh over there. Uh you want to do this tasting or you want to do some questions? Both tasting questions, tasting first, tasting so I get it out of the way. Yeah, might as well. All right.
+
+[28:57] So for those of you that have ever listened to this show, whenever we go to Pennsylvania, I always talk about Lebanon Bologna, Lebanon Balognay, how much I love Lebanon Balogna, spelled Lebanon, the place in Pennsylvania and Bologna like bullet. So I happen to bring some with me from Dietrich's so that, you know, it's beef, by the way, uh, for those of you that are keeping track. But there, I never really knew how it was made. And I uh commend to all of you the article, Lebanon Bologna by S.A. Palumbo, J.L.
+
+[29:26] Smith, and S.A. Ackerman from the Eastern Regional Research Center in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, June 22nd, 1973, in which they give you an actual recipe. So any of you guys who want to make Levin and Baloney in a very traditional way uh can do it. And the the main things about it are that it is very sour and it is very firm. And the way it works is it is that they chop it coarse and they salt it.
+
+[29:51] And they let it age in a fridge for several days, salted. And the salt stops like spoilage garbage or bad odors from going on because they ran that test and allows like local uh flora to kind of incubate the meat. So that's a necessary step to get the um to get the pH to drop fast enough. So it's salted as it's uh uh you know as coarse chop, then ground, then smoked at about 35 C for a couple of days, right? And that's when the uh incubation takes place, the pH drops.
+
+[30:26] So uh and for some reason, like that order and then mellowing for a couple of days produces something that is acidic but not grainy. You know how most sausages, when they are this acid, go extremely grainy, which is gross, like I hate it when some when someone over ferments a sausage and it gets that granular texture, and you're like wah, yeah. You know what I mean? But this one, which is about three percent salt and uh salt added before the pH drop, then the pH drop uh after it's ground encased, makes a delicious firm. You like it?
+
+[31:01] Yeah. It's good, right? Yeah, it's really good. Yeah, but it's not too light. Now, listen, folks, there's a sweet Lebanon baloney out there where they jack it with so much sugar that you can't even recognize it anymore.
+
+[31:11] And it's not nearly as tart. I'd stay away from that. I would get the original, and in grams per kilogram meat, you're looking at 20 grams of glucose, 20 grams of sucrose, 2.5 grams of black pepper, 1.25 grams of nutmeg, 1.25 grams of allspice, and then 0.62 grams of each of the following red pepper, clove, cinnamon, ginger, mustard, and mace, uh in a 3% salt base. Remember, the salt goes on when it's coarsely cubed, the spices are added as it's ground, stuffed, and then smoked and aged. All right, and they're not aged that long.
+
+[31:42] You could do the whole thing inside of a week and a half. What? Dave and John, I have a question. What's up? Let's say you're having a dinner party with uh with uh uh discerning chef.
+
+[31:55] You need to get silverware. What color and type of generic silverware do you get to not piss anyone off? Silver colored. What do you mean? Yeah.
+
+[32:09] Like stainless steel. I stainless steel. Okay. I mean, because it's not it's not a fancy, it's not a fancy place. You don't need real silver, right?
+
+[32:17] I'm assuming you're gonna get stainless. It has to be heavy enough, heavy enough. Heavy, okay. Heavy. Okay.
+
+[32:24] Stainless steel heavy. I'm so heavy. Anyway, uh, so like the when you say discerning, you really mean pain in the behind, right? That's what you mean by discerning. No, Dave, I do not mean that at all.
+
+[32:38] Oh, uh-huh. Yeah. I do know. Uh-huh. Okay.
+
+[32:41] Because if they were discerning but not a pain in the butt, you wouldn't care what they thought. You would just provide something. And then they would look at it and they'd be like, oh, that sucks. And that's okay. You know what I mean?
+
+[32:52] Because you could you know what I'm saying? Like, there's a difference between discerning and, you know, getting all bent. You know what I'm saying? Big difference. Yeah.
+
+[33:06] Uh what were you thinking? Like, first of all, like, why you just tell them everyone has to eat with chopsticks? Call it a day. No. No.
+
+[33:16] Do you remember when we opened Booker and Dax and we tried to open it with just chopsticks, and within within 30 minutes, we realized that like there are many more people that can't use chopsticks than we thought. Why did we do that? Because we didn't want to wash silverware in the same way that you don't want to rent silverware or get it. Yeah. Hey, you know what?
+
+[33:35] How about this? How about this? Since you have hopefully a couple of days, why don't you troll thrift stores and get like a good mismatch set and then you can use it for again for other things. I am not doing that. I'm not doing that.
+
+[33:49] Hey man. You asked me what you what uh what I would do. Like uh like whenever you used to e when I f got my place in Connecticut, I I uh before Thanksgiving when I knew I was gonna get a huge thing, I would just troll thrift stores and get like high quality mismatch stuff for both plateware and service wear. And not and then make it a thing. No, if it were my cooking or you were doing it with me, it's great, but this is not that kind of thing.
+
+[34:14] Well, let me ask you this, uh seeing as how I know the answer, but no one knows what we're talking about. Uh if this is gonna be something you're gonna do again and again, you could either make it a recurring cost or you could pay for it once and be done. That's what I'm doing. I'm buying the silverware. Like, you know, I'm gonna like a uh a kitchen supply store, you know, in Glenville.
+
+[34:34] Uh buy the fake loggioles, everyone seems to think they're real. That's true. Buy the fake loggiole knives. Yeah. Everyone's like, ooh, loggioles is the best.
+
+[34:46] And I'm like, yeah, they're fake. You know what I mean? Like, they're not real. You know what I mean? You know the ones I'm talking about?
+
+[34:52] They have the little weird thumb rest on the top. Look up log spell spell scales. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[34:59] Yeah. Yeah. And and no one's gonna and you can be like, what, they're real. What you don't believe me? And then the chef can't say anything.
+
+[35:06] Cause you got the lagiols. You know what I mean? Imprint on it. Uh I don't know whether they say loggiole or not. I don't know.
+
+[35:14] I mean, like, you know. Uh but the other thing about like uh I told I've said this on the air many times, but my wife was designing silverware, like they had a bunch of samples out, and the silverware expert from ARC International, who's there a big glass manufacturer, but they also did silverware, uh, he was going through and he picked it up, he's like, The design on this is nice, but it does not weigh enough. Nice silverware needs to have a certain weight to it or people think it's chintzy. And I was like, ooh, snap. You know, like unless you're camping, no one wants like a titanium, like, you know, you know, carbon fiber shafted, like super extra light fork.
+
+[35:51] They want that fork to feel like you could stab a Willy Mammoth. Get away with it to go back to Mammoth Tusks. Anyway. Uh hope hopefully that was a decent answer, Stas. Yeah, I think so.
+
+[36:05] Math Man writes in uh Dave, do you still recommend Egan Press series handbooks as great technical books on high fiber, oil, hydrocolloids, etc. Or are there newer options you would highlight more? Egan Press, by the way, is spelled E A G A N. And you know what? Like they have probably been superseded, but they're still really short.
+
+[36:25] If if if a chef was gonna come into me and say, I want like just like a really quick, what is a hydrocolloid? You know, what can I do? What's it for from a technical standpoint? I'd send them I I Egan Press, they're also really cheap. Uh, you know, I think they're still really cheap.
+
+[36:42] You used to be able to get them online, um for almost nothing. You could get a year's supply, get the PDS online. And I still go back to them every once in a while. They're pretty, I mean, uh the the the best ones are probably uh the one on hydrocolloids, the one on emulsifiers, the one, I mean, the wheat ones okay. They are, I think, put out by the American Association of Serial Chemists.
+
+[37:03] I don't think they've been updated. Uh non-nutritive sweeteners is kind of the one that's most out of date, but like most people I know aren't working with non-nutritive sweeteners anyway. The sugar one's okay, as my memory serves. I don't remember much about the fiber one. Um, it really depends on what you're looking to do, but yeah, it's I still think they're okay.
+
+[37:20] Um Oshkosh Bagash. Oh no. Apologies, Josh. Oshkosh Bajash is the uh is the person who asked the question. Ashkash Bajash.
+
+[37:31] Uh, you know, I used to go to Ashkosh all the time. What's there? The fly-in. They don't just make dungarees. It's uh the EAA, the Experimental Aircraft Association, has their yearly fly in there, and during the fly-in, it's the busiest airport in the world.
+
+[37:45] When I was a kid, I used to go there. Uh all right. Uh how does this work? And it's the uh no thumb, not with a B. Like N N-O-T-H-U-M.com's uh Pro Therm Continuous Fryer.
+
+[38:00] And uh the link that uh Oshkosh Bajash sent uh has a fryer that says that it uses uh less oil than uh regular continuous fryer. How does it work? Well, continuous frying in general uh is not anything that any of us normal folk are ever gonna have access to. Uh any commercial front so when something says it's kettle fried, right? What that means is is that it's batch fried.
+
+[38:25] So you're you basically, even though the equipment's much nicer, you're cooking it the way you would cook it at home. You're putting you have a vat of oil, you're putting the thing in, you're taking it out, and you're dumping it, and then after a while, you have to keep adding more oil. You might have to replace it, but the oil tends to degrade. In a continuous frying situation, what happens is product goes in, oil goes in, and you never change the oil. The ideal continuous frying scenario is such that the oil uptake is exactly equal to the oil degradation rate, so that the oil stays in perfect frying condition the entire time and it just keeps going.
+
+[39:03] Continuous frying. You never have to stop it to change the oil, right? Which is great. Um, and it's all about just getting the numbers right. Uh now, these folks uh claim to use one third less oil in their continuous frying uh scenario.
+
+[39:18] So what that tells me is that they have a much more efficient uh heat transfer mechanism. So they don't need as much oil. They have like a probably a better, I don't know, better heat exchanger or something like this. They can use a smaller quantity of oil uh and then just add it at uh a faster rate. Now, if they're claiming, which I didn't see in their thing, if they're claiming that they somehow get less oil absorption, that's not really a function of the fryer, that's a function of the food product they puts in, right?
+
+[39:45] So, I mean, that's fundamentally how continuous fryers work, um, you know, and why they're so amazing and why it's very difficult for us to achieve uh well, I mean, there's commercial frying at a restaurant, which is eight billion times better than you know, home frying because their fryers are better. And this is like yet another leap on top of that. You know what I mean? In terms of efficiently using oil. Yeah.
+
+[40:10] You know. Curious, is this not that dissimilar to that? Um, you remember those 70s um lamps, but the continuous oil those lamps that had the string that had the Oh, I love those things. Right. I I own, you know, I bought one of those things for my wife for Christmas.
+
+[40:24] Yeah, yeah. So those uh by the way, if you buy Continuous Oil. If you buy one of those, they they just keep pumping the oil up the top. So for those of you that don't know what we're talking about, so uh imagine, if you will, a lamp, and then uh the lamp comes down and there's like a little pagoda shape, and then underneath the pagoda shape is a statue. Usually a woman, maybe she's naked, maybe she's not.
+
+[40:45] Italian. Italian. Then underneath that is like almost like a basin, and then there's some fake plastic plants, right? And now, from the pagoda down to the basement are a uh the bait the basin are a bunch of like like fishing line monofilament that go down, like kind of crisscrossing going down in like a beautiful pattern. And what happens is beautiful, beautiful.
+
+[41:06] And in the in the bottom in the basin, you have oil, mineral oil, and there's a pump. And when you turn the lamp on, it pumps the mineral oil up to the top, and then it drips down the string in these like pearly drips. And then when the lights on, it's magic, it's magic. They'll drive oil woo and it goes real slow down the that's why you got plastic on the couch. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[41:29] Oh, geez, Louise, they're so awesome. They are better for all of you fools who think that fiber optics is the best thing. This is so much better than the fiber optics, and you can buy them online for pretty cheap. Here's the thing they're clogged, but they probably work. You need to completely disassemble it.
+
+[41:46] You need to get all the old oil out, all of it out. And then you need to get mineral oil. And please, when you move the lamp, get the oil out before you move the lamp. Get the oil out before you move the lamp. And you know, make sure it stays clean.
+
+[41:59] But once I got that thing all polished up, I had to remake a portion of it. I had to cast a piece of like the like the weird little fake ornamentation around it, and I had to get all new plastic plants for mine. But you can totally buy one on eBay and fix it up, and oh my god, is it worth it? Continuous oil. Uh continuous oil, baby.
+
+[42:15] Because when you look at one of those things, when you're a kid, you're like, what the hell? How does it do that? You know, they had once, so the one that I got for my wife is the table one, but they also have the ones that you hang in the corner. You see me? Oh, yeah, oh yeah.
+
+[42:30] Of course. Yeah, yeah. I remember I remember going to El Dorado Furniture Place and putting my finger there and trying to get all the oil and getting yelled at. Oh, yeah, yeah. No one wants you to touch that thing.
+
+[42:38] Here's the other thing, people. If you live in a dusty house, the dust, the dust sticks to the to the strings. So you have to clean it all. You have to turn it off and clean the otherwise, no one wants to see like a dog hair sticking to an oil string, and then the oil coming down. So, like if you live in a dusty, a dusty joint, just be aware it takes a wipe down every once in a while.
+
+[43:00] You know what I mean? I mean, but like, oh my god, hours when you're a kid. Now, granted, we didn't have the internet or phones. You know what I mean? But when you were a kid, you're like, oh my god, someday, and then someday I did have one.
+
+[43:14] Crap on you, life. I did have one anyway. Your wife did. Yeah. Well, you know, I got to live in the house.
+
+[43:19] It's one of those gifts, it's a gift for the both of you. You played with it all day long. Yeah, I did. I sat there. You know what?
+
+[43:23] It's like honestly, you know, before dinner, you get yourself like I don't know, like a vermouth, flip on the oil lamp, just sit, read. Every once in a while, you look up, you're like, Yeah. Yeah. That's the light. So proud of it.
+
+[43:41] So proud of it. Yeah. I did that. Yeah. Look at this.
+
+[43:45] Look at this. Here I am. I'm content. Yeah. What else do you need?
+
+[43:48] Really? You got the vermouth, you got the book, you got the easy chair, and the lamp with the oil. Boom. Boom. That's it.
+
+[43:55] That's all you need. You know? Especially like, you know, like a like a like a fall or a spring day, you can have the window open. You know what I mean? A little breezy.
+
+[44:04] You know what I mean? That's it. That's too nice, Dave. That's too nice. Yeah.
+
+[44:10] Better than Instagram. Yeah. Don't deserve it. I don't deserve it anymore. That's why I don't have it anymore.
+
+[44:17] Jeez. Okay. Uh Maddie says, uh I've heard many times not to refrigerate bread, but rather to keep it at room temperature or freeze it. At home, I slice bed, freeze it, and then toast the slices that needed. Well, Maddie, this is also what I do.
+
+[44:32] That is exactly what I do. However, at the restaurant uh I work and bake bread for, we store bread wrapped in the walk-in, then slice during the prep day and toast before serving. Why is the advice always not to refrigerate bread? And what is the best way to keep bread, especially in my case for restaurant service, we bake uh we bake then serve the next day. Well, Maddie.
+
+[45:04] Uh toasting it will re-liven it for like a little bit. But if you were to let that bread cool and then try to eat it later, I think is when it's gonna be uh a real nightmare. The studies that I've read show that uh, you know, storing in the fridge, storing at four degrees Celsius. The the the real magic number where starch retro retrogradation happens the fastest is at 4C. Now, if you're having a if you have uh a lot of fat in the bread, uh, or you know, if it's not relying on like a cellular structure, so for instance, things like pies, cookies, um, you know, very short or fatty crusts like that, it's much less of an effect, but like you know standard breads will that are prone to staling will stale much faster at four and the the old uh theory being that um a even the freeze thaw cycle where it has to pass through four degrees Celsius and then back up on the thawing was equivalent to about a day a day's worth of sitting out on the counter in terms of staling so some breads don't ever go stale really so like panotone because of the high fat and whatnot can stay out forever and so I'm assuming it would also do well in the fridge for almost as long and again toasting makes it makes it um kind of ameliorates that but for me uh I tend to pull from a freezer and not do a real toast just like kind of a light like in the toaster or even in the uh APO the ANOVA precision oven in which case the bread comes back almost to where it was not the toasted and for that I think you would not be as good storing in the fridge.
+
+[46:40] Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah did I answer that question I hope. All right. Uh Biff Dit.
+
+[46:45] Following up on uh Jack's story, here you go Jack, about returning the drink that you didn't like. One, to this is to Jack and Nastasia. When you return the drink, did you confirm that you wouldn't be charged because that's another bag of worms and the thing I'm worried about and I hate is having to ask whether I'm gonna get charged or not and all that awkwardness. Now as the owner I would never think of charging you for a drink that I offered to take back and replace not even not once. It wouldn't even cross my mind and if I went to a place and they did that to me, I I would burn the restaurant down.
+
+[47:19] But uh, what did you do to the scallop? Oh my God. Well, I'm gonna l uh ask me again. First you answer the question. Oh, I would never I can't imagine.
+
+[47:32] I can't imagine them charging. I would be too shocked. And and if they brought the check and it was on, I would just say, hey, I think you made a mistake, you put this drink on then. No, I would just pay it. I would just pay it.
+
+[47:43] Huh. Yeah, but yeah, but but but in other words, like what Biff is saying is that it worries them so much the idea of there being this awkward moment, the same way that like you know, I am anytime I'm with someone and they order or the kettle, I'm like, Don't order it! Don't order it in case it's not right. I don't want to deal with it. You know what I mean?
+
+[48:02] Like, don't do it. Uh so it's like for Biff, like the awkwardness is so you did that that part didn't cross. And it is something we didn't discuss when we were discussing this thing, is this idea that maybe you would be charged and then have to either suck it up and grind your gears like Nastasia would do, or have the conversation, which is what Jack would do. Thoughts. Yeah, I I don't know.
+
+[48:27] I I like I said, I can't my brain can't even compute a situation where they would charge me. So that's never crossed my mind. Yeah, and the second part of the question is they're offering but the thing is I say I did I they say, How do you like your drink? And I it and Nastasia is encouraging me to say, I didn't like it. Right.
+
+[48:42] And then it's sort of on the bartender to say, Oh, I'm so sorry. Here, let me get you something else, right? So in that case, it's hard to imagine they would charge. Right, because if they were if they were gonna charge you, they'd be like, suck it, jerk. Yeah, oh maybe your next one will be better.
+
+[48:57] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um But it's a good point. And this is why like you know you train people. Hold on, we're not done with Biff's question. So you like you like you train your people to look at the drinks and see whether or not they're getting drunk in a timely fashion.
+
+[49:12] And if they're not, you have to decide, well, is this person just nursing their drink or do they hate the drink? Right. And that's the right, right. And so like, you know, but then you know, that's that's good service. So, you know, it's different if you have to tell them that you don't like the dr.
+
+[49:27] Oh, I don't like this. Then I guess you know, Biff's point is it could be more of a gray area because you don't know what their theory of operation is as a bar. Right. If if if if the minute somebody got like I would prefer it. If if the minute somebody got a drink, I'd be like, I don't like this.
+
+[49:43] And then I take it away from them so it's not like they're drinking it, right? I think that's the thing too, is the customer is knowing pretty much immediately that you don't like it and don't kind of mess around with it, like don't have half of it and then be like, oh, you know, I really don't like this tomorrow. That makes us all a lot more complicated. I think it's once you know you don't like it, commit to it and get something new. Yeah.
+
+[50:06] And so then uh Biff follows up, and then I'll tell the story, so Dave says, What uh Dave, what's the move here? Do you ask whether you'll be comped the bad drink or just risk getting charged for a bad drink? I never ask anyone whether I'm gonna get comped ever for anything. Ever. Not ever.
+
+[50:19] Never. No. Ever. And you never expect it going to a restaurant. Now, here's the thing.
+
+[50:25] If a restaurant offers to send you something, this has happened to friends of mine. If a restaurant offers to send you something, implying that it's comped and they don't, I hated it. I hated it. The chef would like to make you X, and you're like, okay, then the Dave would like to not pay for X. You know what I mean?
+
+[50:44] It's like you know what I'm saying? It's like that I know that's happened to a bunch of people. It's happened to me, where like, you know, they they say that they want. I'm not talking about places that know you. That's different.
+
+[50:52] You know what I mean? I'm talking about like you want to say where that is. Nope. Is it someone that we know? Who knows?
+
+[51:00] Who knows? Who knows? Who knows? But it's but but for those of you that own a place, that's real bad form. To imply to someone that they're gonna get something comped and then charge them for it, real bad form.
+
+[51:13] Uh don't do it. Uh it makes people hate you. Now, on to Nastasia's thing, uh speaking of uh so the kitchen at Contra sent out a scallop without asking me. All right. So don't I don't want to hear anyone saying, Don't you know Nastasia hates scallops because she's told you a million times Yes, I did not ask them to send anything out at all.
+
+[51:36] I was there talking to them. So they send out the scallop, and Nastasia's like, I don't, I you know, you know I don't like scallops. I believe you said I you know I don't like scallops. Then somebody else was there, was like, I don't eat scallops either. And then the other person had a problem, I think, with the garnish with the three people.
+
+[51:53] So I'm disgusted. Ariel was allergic. Oh, yeah. Ariel was allergic. You didn't like them, and the third person there was something else that they did what so like poster, whatever, crafing it up big time.
+
+[52:07] So, like, you know, so like literally at the bar, full, full bar, right? Full bar. I get so irritated, I reach across, like with jersey claw hand, I reach aclaw across on the plate, I fist the entire dish off the plate and shove it in one motion in my mouth with an intensely angry look on my face. That's pretty much what happened. Yeah.
+
+[52:36] That freaked out. I was like, no more scallop to worry about, people. Can we discuss something else? Other than the free thing that you're angry about. Yeah.
+
+[52:49] Yeah. I mean, good. The bite was a little big. You know? They're big scallops, so with the frying and the shiso and all of the other uh garniture around it, I would say it's at least a two-bite problem in the real life.
+
+[53:07] Yep. You know what I mean? But you know, I didn't want to have a conversation about that. So I made it go away as fast as humanly possible. You know, put it in the face hole.
+
+[53:18] Yeah. There you go. It's the only, you know, face hole's the only thing you control. All right. Uh from Azu 14.
+
+[53:27] One of my favorite bars in Seattle. Used to have a Tom Yum mule on the menu, which has since fallen off as the prep was too much of a pain. I asked them for the spec, and they were able to provide me with some notes, namely that the aromatics are a 312 lemongrass Thai basil makrout lime leaf uh base. Uh any suggestions on the quantity of vodka. I thought the liquid intelligence lemongrass vodka spec might be a good start.
+
+[53:50] Cutting the lemongrass in half and replacing that uh other half with the Aramax. That should work. I mean, uh I might, I don't know, pre-slice the I mean that pre-slice the Thai basil roughly. I mean, it's I don't know how long it's gonna last. I mean, the real question on those with those folks is did they make a syrup?
+
+[54:06] Because a lot of people make like a basil syrup. Uh I'm pretty sure they probably made a syrup because infusions with basil, the basil's gonna be a little bit light and it'll be good, but it won't last uh that long. Um tangentially, if I were to do sous vide infusion instead of nitro, uh, would the quantities be the same? No. Uh rapid nitro takes a lot more aromatics than any other technique because you're extracting the high notes uh to the detriment of the of the lower notes, and so it requires a larger than normal amount.
+
+[54:39] So you you probably on the order of uh you know 75% of what you would use for rapid infusion or 60% of what you use for rapid infusion. But I I would guess they're probably making a syrup. What do you think, John? Yeah, I would think. Because that's you know, if you were gonna, I mean, I don't know.
+
+[54:58] I don't know, I don't know. You didn't say what restaurant it was, right? If they're using just a straight up ginger beer, they're probably not their mixer. They why would they do that though? Like if they're making all this other stuff, I doubt they're doing that.
+
+[55:12] I don't know anyone that does that. But he says he says it's it's aromatics in the vodka. Well, let me see. Uh I asked them for the spec, and they were able to buy me with notes, namely that the aromatics are lemongrass basil and macro lime. It doesn't actually say what the aromatics are into.
+
+[55:29] They're assuming it's the vodka. Yeah. Uh and if I was gonna do it, I would make my own ginger syrup, and I would add those aromatics to the syrup because it's in it's inherently more stable and it's a lot cheaper than pushing it into vodka, which then you can use it for a bunch of other things. But again, I don't know specifically what they're what they're doing. Uh Dave.
+
+[55:51] Yeah. I just got an alert that Sammy Hagar and Guy Fieri's tequila truck got hijacked in Laredo, Texas. Oh my God, that's so sick. Sammy Hagar. Wait, and Guy Fieri have a tequila truck that got hijacked in Texas.
+
+[56:13] And there's uh a load of a million dollars of retail in it, yeah. Oh my god. First of all, what the hell tequila do they have that's worth a truckload if it's worth a million dollars? You know, do we talk about like 40,000 bottles in one truck? We talked about the cheese heist, right?
+
+[56:35] No. No? Oh you know about this, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[56:39] Neil's Yard Dairy, like someone in France order like you know, 370 or 380,000 worth of cheddar, really high-end tet cheddar, and then just didn't pay them for it because they weren't real, they stole it. And the question I have is how do you sell that? Like, if if all of a sudden some random French person's like, I have the Montgomery cheddar, I'm like, you stole that crap. I'm gonna turn you in. You know what I mean?
+
+[57:00] Like, how do you push something that there's not that much of? That's like what Amazon does to us with our Sears all though. Yeah, but I mean, like, there's not as much, yeah. But again, we're like little people. Neil's yard.
+
+[57:10] I mean, how in other words, like, who's buying everyone was gonna buy this the the Sears all this be like, I didn't know. But like, you know, with the cheddar, I mean, everyone who's a cheese person knows that that cheddar is stolen. Like, it's a little bit cross-country line, yeah, across the border or something, you know. Yeah, and it's a lot more than personal consumption. That's beyond personal consumption cheese, no matter how much cheese you eat.
+
+[57:30] And the same goes true for this uh tequila, but the idea that Mr. I Can't Drive 55 and Guy Fieri have a tequila together, and that a million wait, a million dollars? Yeah, a million dollars of it was stolen. So no, I mean, if it was in Laredo, that's supposed to Mexico, right? So, wow.
+
+[57:51] Yeah, but what what self-respecting Mexican is gonna steal an American person's tequila brand and bring it back across the border. They do that these two white guys are making tequila, and they were like, boom, you know. I don't know. Weird. That's a good story, though, stuff.
+
+[58:09] Um Z Banks wants to know how much glycerin can uh I add to cocktails. I had a beesne's cocktail this summer that was very viscous. Uh it was also delicious and now trying to recreate it. The drink had uh almost a viscosity of two to one honey syrups. That's quite viscous.
+
+[58:27] Uh so I figured they must have added something else like glycerin. I started with one teaspoon of glycerin, now double that. Uh okay, listen, uh your your recipe has about nine percent uh glycerin. I don't add more than uh I don't add more than about two percent, so 20 grams per liter. Uh anytime I need more than that, I mean maybe up to five gram, uh sorry, like five percent, like 50, but that'd be a lot.
+
+[58:51] Like 20 grams per liter is a lot kind of better uh range. Uh I would use polydextrose. So go on uh Monarch's Pantry sells it. You can also get it on Amazon, polydextrose, make a one-to-one uh simple syrup with polydextrose, and you can add as much of that as you need to make it as viscous as you like. And in fact, you can add the polydextrose to the lemon juice or whatever, so that you're not drastically increasing the dilution by make adding more uh simple syrup, but that's that's what I would do.
+
+[59:20] Uh 38 seconds. Uh Elliot says, Dave mentioned that his wife wanted uh a low sugar pumpkin spice latte. My wife has the sand request, so I'd love the spec if it exists, but also other suggestions. Welcome. Uh so you're thinking of doing it as a tincture.
+
+[59:34] I would just do it the same way that I said. I would I would boil the pumpkin spice mix in water, uh, unsteep it, and then add 50% of the weight of that syrup in polydextrose, and then you'll have a very neutral pumpkin spice. I haven't made it yet because I've been busy. I've been out like, you know, and this Thursday is the museum uh Mofad's uh gala, so I've been had my head underwater trying to get stuff done. However, that's what I would do, and I'm telling you, I know it would work.
+
+[1:00:00] So cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cookie Issues. This is Dave R. I'm your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, New Stand Studios, joined as usual with John right in front of me. How are you doing, John? Doing great.
+
+[0:20] Good. Okay, yeah, good. Got uh Joe rocking the panels. What's up? Hey, how are you?
+
+[0:25] Doing well, doing well. Uh over there in Los Angeles, we have uh Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing? I'm good. You bringing the hammer down.
+
+[0:35] I guess so. Do you uh do you remember? Uh you don't, but I know I've asked you this, and you've always said no. You've never seen the BG's version of Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club band, wherein the bang bang Maxwell Silver Hammer is like Steve Martin as a dentist hitting people on the head.
+
+[0:53] No. But I like I imagine you doing it. So in my head, there's that. Anyway, uh we have Mr. Jackie Molecules.
+
+[1:02] Jack, how you doing? I'm good. Also in Los Angeles, correct? Or are you back here for Thanksgiving time yet? No, I'm I'm here in LA and uh heading to Connecticut tomorrow.
+
+[1:12] Yeah. Where in wait, I forget, where in Connecticut are you going? Stanford area, like Norwalk. Okay. Okay.
+
+[1:20] Like, I don't know. That's that's a Connecticut. For those of you that think Connecticut's so tiny that there's only one Connecticut, there are so many Connecticuts. Yeah. But I don't know, there's colony pizza out there, this good hot dogs.
+
+[1:29] Plenty to do in that part of Connecticut. Okay. Everywhere. Yeah. Okay.
+
+[1:33] Uh we do not have Quinn in the upper left. He is uh uh he's uh recuperating and also he was like this. He said, in quote in the text, crap on Thanksgiving. I'm from Canada. He didn't actually say that.
+
+[1:44] But it would be amazing if he didn't. I can say he said it. Yeah, yeah. And special guest. Actually, I don't know where she's coming out of right now, but Chef Elizabeth Faulkner, welcome.
+
+[1:53] First, is this is your first time on the show? I think. It is my first time, and I'm I'm beaming in from Los Angeles. Los Angeles, Los Angeles. Yeah.
+
+[1:59] So uh now, do you live in Los Angeles now? I do. I was in New York for about a decade and I moved to Los Angeles. And Heather is from San Francisco. She's also on here.
+
+[2:11] And she's uh uh actually in LA, but we're in two separate places right now. All right. Hey Heather, welcome. Oh, hello, how's everybody? Okay, so like so see if I get this chronology correct.
+
+[2:23] Uh you're in San Francisco for a long time, open some some restaurants, get a lot of uh, you know, good reviews. You're like, San Francisco feels like a small, small town. I'm out. You come to New York for a decade, and then you're like, oh, now I see why everyone hates it here, and then you go to LA. So are you happy in LA or no?
+
+[2:42] Is that me? First of all, is that accurate? Well, not completely because um I do love New York, but I moved back to LA where I grew up because of the pandemic, and I was like, oh, I want to be closer to my parents, and I missed Meyer Lemons and a lot of the produce out here. A lot I missed it a lot, but now I miss the apples in New York. So, you know.
+
+[3:02] Yeah. Now, question Meyer Lemons, you actually like the juice, or is just the aroma so intoxicating that you like it? Because uh Nastasia loves the aroma, correct, Nastasia, but the juice, you're like, meh, meh. Yeah, you know, I exactly yeah, it's all about the zest for me. Well, I couldn't hear you.
+
+[3:20] Your phone is clicking a little bit, it's hard for me to hear. What uh what'd you say? I said it's all about the zest for me, the rind. Yeah, I love the the zest of the citrus. I think zest is one of those words that I really like it, but I feel like some people could hate it.
+
+[3:35] I like the word zest. Stas, how do you feel about zest? I know you're triggered by some words. I like zest. Yeah.
+
+[3:42] I think like zesty is too excited. It's like people who like think that you're being like a uh a show off for like zest, sure. You know what I mean? Whereas I like zest. I think zest is good.
+
+[3:53] Uh and uh Heather, I didn't know you were on. Now before he so long story short, before we get into the normal part of the show, Elizabeth uh has a new uh a new brand, which by the way, folks, it's called you pronounce it tomorrow, right? Like tomorrow. Correct. Yeah.
+
+[4:12] Now seeing seeing the label, I'm so stupid that I didn't get that for a long time. I was like, tomorrow? I was like, couldn't figure it out. I was like, ah, you know what I mean? I was like, I wonder what that's about.
+
+[4:26] And then like on the website, if you go, it's T postrophe Morrow. If you go on the website, and then it I was like, oh, you're like the name means, but I'm like, I still didn't get it. And then all of a sudden it said tomorrow afterwards. I was like, oh my God, I'm so stupid. Isn't that crazy?
+
+[4:43] If you how many people have you had who didn't immediately get it? Anyone or just me? Uh you know, no, it's not just you. Um, I mean, it's it's definitely a play on words, but the root of the word is tomorrow, which is um an ancient word for date and date palm. So it's kind of a play on words too.
+
+[5:02] Like we wanted to, we were looking at the resilience of the date palm. It's been around since early times. And so we were like, you know, what wanted to we're thinking about climate change and all the things going on in the world, and we were like, you know, made today for tomorrow's world. Like we want to make something on the inside that's um delicious and real and doesn't have artificial flavors and colors, and then it's, you know, the upcycle palm fronts on the on the label. Um, you know, we made our own paper.
+
+[5:31] Like we it's we put a lot of detail in the entire package, what's inside and outside. So it's that's the idea. It's made today for tomorrow's world and that's why we call it tomorrow. And it also has got the Amaro pun in it too. So it's like like all pun on pun on pun on pun on pun.
+
+[5:46] Yeah and it kind of like I think the guy um we actually had a graphic design uh graphic designer from New York a guy that lives in Brooklyn and um he I think he came up with just the most beautiful um font artwork for the logo because it looks like something kind of historical ancient but kind of futuristic too so yeah it's kind of a good it looks like the date palm has like a bird's face and it's gonna peck me in the eye but not in a bad way not in a bad way in a good way. Well do you see a do you see a close there's two women harvesting the dates in the palm tree? Oh is that what that is? Okay my vision is so bad. Like I can't tell you how bad my close vision is I when I get home I'll put on my magnifiers which I use to do any close work and I I will I will look at it.
+
+[6:35] But uh also uh now Heather correct me if I'm wrong uh I looked this up before I came on you were at Picardi for a number of years first you came from the wine world and then went to Picardi for a while is that true yeah I have um almost uh the same amount of time up Elizabeth cooking in the beverage alcohol business so mostly on the wine side mostly in distribution but I did do a brief tour at Picardi S which brought me into spritz and love of Amaro and all things um alcohol and spirits. All things alcohol and spirits. Did you uh did you happen to know uh AK when she was at uh Bacardi? She's uh my old bar manager. Best people, best people.
+
+[7:14] No, I you know, we were I was on the commercial sales side on the West Coast. Um but it I wasn't there for that long, so it was hard to meet with everyone. And how much did how much did that help? Because like I'm actually interested in the whole idea of like uh chef and liquor people, because this is one of the ways, right? When everyone's thinking about what am I gonna do, like starting uh a brand for a while it was um a lot of people wanted to start, you know, gins or I think um, you know, Amari in general, I think because of the ability to make something that's not just another XYZ to do your own flavor profiles, do your own thing, have a lot of control.
+
+[7:54] Uh and so teaming up like a liquor person and a chef, I think is you know, a really you know smart, smart way to do it. But uh you've been in business what about a year? It's uh it's been going as a concern. I mean, not selling, but like going as a concern. I took like a year and a half of RD.
+
+[8:14] Sorry. Uh and and then um and we were able to finally launch just uh uh just over two months ago, actually. So about about two years in general to get it off the ground. Oh, look at this batch number zero zero zero one. Um I see unfortunately you guys have gone euro freaky and are a 700 milliliter bottle, which is the wave of the future, but damn do I hate it.
+
+[8:37] God, do I hate the 700? It's a it's a nice looking bottle, but you're throwing off all of my numbers. Someone's like, oh hey, uh okay, I'm gonna get a bottle. I'm that's 12 and a half drinks. All right, so like I'm figuring out like all this stuff, you know what I mean?
+
+[8:49] Like I think on bottle bases and drinks, and now everything is like you guys are going the way of diamond kosher salt and domino, where you're gonna just make my sugar package, my salt package smaller. Killing me. It's not you, it's the industry. It's not you personally, it's the industry. But man, you know what I mean?
+
+[9:06] Yeah, you definitely have to be aware of the ounce cost. Um, but for efficiency reasons, especially now with how how difficult it is to actually get glass uh bottles, you kind of have to go that direction and and kind of push the 700s into the US market, which are already well and thriving in the base uh size in the UK market, etc. Yeah. I mean, all those Euroweasels look like they're there's used to a 700 and by the way, fifth 50 milliliter standard pours, right? So, you know, they're just downsizing everything over there.
+
+[9:36] You know what I'm saying? So, like for them, yeah. Because uh honestly, I mean, the ounce cost makes a huge no uh you can think about drinks however you want to think about them, right? I think about the drink pour cost, right? And so like I'm assuming that all of my drinks have roughly two ounces in them.
+
+[9:51] So I'm doing all of my doing all of my mental math based on like how it impacts like the drink I'm serving. And so I guess you know, 700s are fine to think about bottle-wise. Because when you're going to talk to somebody, you're asking them the price. Because that's I'm that jerk at a tasting where someone tastes my nice nice, what's the bottle price? You know what I mean?
+
+[10:12] Like, John, you've seen me do it about a billion times. Because I want to know right ahead. I'm I I'll tell you, I was at a tasting in Barcelona recently for a baijo, and they're talking about oh, this it's a baijo uh that you know is like very neutral nose, like no blue cheese, no, no none of that, like super neutral, like green, you know, grainy, grain, like you know, sorghumy nose. And uh, you know, easy to work with, frankly, you know what I mean? Because it doesn't have a lot of the stuff that you know how when you some baijos, you open them in a bar, and the whole bar is like, what happened?
+
+[10:44] You know, um, like durien went off. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, like, uh, you know, it's kind of like when the kitchen at my new bar when they bust out a bunch of scallops and the whole place smells like seafood. I'm like, oh my god, this is so bad for everyone that doesn't like seafood. You know what I mean?
+
+[11:02] But they don't get it because they're cooks. Anyway, so uh no offense. Uh so anyway, so finally I get through it and no mention of price. They're telling me about cocktails, they're serving cocktails. Look at them, 134 dollars a bottle, 130, 140 euros a bottle.
+
+[11:18] I'm like, for a for a 700 or a 500 or something. I was like, get out of here. Don't be don't be a dummy. Don't tell me I'm gonna make cocktails with something that's 140 euros, and don't tell me that if I'm gonna pour some sort of artisanal baijo at that price point to an American, then I'm gonna do it with one that tastes relatively neutral. The whole thing didn't work for me.
+
+[11:38] You know what I mean? It's a well-made product, but I didn't understand where it fit. You know what I mean? Uh were they trying to sell it as that base spirit to use and in cocktails or just as a modifier? No, I think they wanted it to be a base spirit because like it it didn't have it didn't have like the the it didn't have the structure to be a modifier, right?
+
+[12:00] It had the structure to be a base. And so I just didn't understand its application. So like let's now and and but their main thing is they're like, look, you know, this is a it's a it was a traditional product and it was always made that way. It was always like a lighter nose baijo. It's not like they made it for Western weasels, but like they were definitely feeling if you're gonna market Baijo to western weasels, which is what they want to do to a certain extent.
+
+[12:25] Uh, they were like, This is what those idiots will like. You know what I mean? And yeah, it was fine. Um, but uh to that we're doing this in reverse. We're gonna do our like our what happened this week in Thanksgiving stuff, uh, I guess after we talk about the the hooch.
+
+[12:39] And I brought it with in the studio so you guys can taste. You wanna so what I think is really, really, really interesting about this product is not only do you sweeten first of all, Southern California dates. I was at the bar, I was tasting this stuff out yesterday at the bar, and a guy yeah, a guy next to me, uh customer, guest, was like, I was tasting him out too because it's rude to sit there and talk with your bartender about tasting a new spirit and not give a skim taste to the to the guest that's right in between you. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, it's rude.
+
+[13:10] So uh, so you know, I mean and I and I was like, oh, so here's here's the thing that I think's really interesting. All the sugar comes from dates, including the fermentation. So date sugar ferment, distilled, so date sugar, or you know, it's date sugar is the base of the actual spirit. And hence this is the first thing that you're gonna taste, John is the O de V, which is just date spirit, all right, just date spirit. What's the proof on that one?
+
+[13:34] 80 proof. 80 proof. 80. And what does it come out of the stilla at? Um, we with this distiller, we did uh like a hundred.
+
+[13:44] I I kind of forgot it's probably a hundred. 120. 120, yeah. 120 of that's right. Yeah.
+
+[13:49] Uh so it's you know, it's like super clean. Like, I wouldn't like necessarily I you know, I'm I'm gonna try it with uh, because you know, I do date spirits, but not obviously the way you do date's beers, but like uh uh, you know, I do I do do work with dates, so I'm gonna try it, try it with dates. I haven't mixed it in a cocktail, I've just tasted it neat. I haven't even watered it yet, so I don't know like what aromas come out once you once you've watered it. Um but I think it's unique in that you don't see a lot of spirits made from dates, but you got you guys got nothing but like awesome dates down there.
+
+[14:22] So I tell the bar guy, I was like, Well, I think the shtick is that you know, shtick in a good way again, no offense. I think the shtick is that like you know, they're using this source of sugar that is you know not normally used for this and can make like a delicious you know product. And the guy goes, She's from San Francisco, they're shipping that all the way to San Francisco to make it. I was like, I don't know. I'm gonna talk to her tomorrow.
+
+[14:44] I don't know, man. I don't know. You know what I mean? And so here it is, you're in LA. So he can poop himself, right?
+
+[14:51] Um, there's a couple things. So we are basically like we're making this stuff in the state of California right now because we're small, we don't have our own distillery. Um, and so this whole thing came about because Heather and I were talking about how much we like Amari, we were in Sicily, we're talking about Amaro, and I was like, Yeah, but I was kind of bitching about it and saying, you know, I like the bitterness. I love that America is kind of accepting and embracing the bitterness of Amaro, but they're often countered by too much sweetness for my palate. So I don't think of them as a great digestivo today.
+
+[15:26] And I said, wouldn't it be great if people, you know, if we could make it with dates? Like there's such a great round, smooth sweetener. So that's how the Amaro started. We started working on that. And then I was like, if we're gonna go to all this effort to sweeten with dates, why wouldn't why can't we use a neutral spirit of dates instead of grape or grain?
+
+[15:47] And who makes date spirit? So um we fermented some and had it distilled in an incubator distillery up north, and then um we were like, this is actually pretty good. So then we've, you know, contracted a different distiller to make this first round. But we're we obviously this kind of we don't want to be like freight trucking everything off and down the state. So we found somebody um closer to us that I think we're gonna be able to work with.
+
+[16:16] We hope to work with um for the next batch. But um the idea is not to go. I'm yeah, I'm was born in San Francisco. I grew up in LA. Heather lives in San Francisco, but she was born in San Diego.
+
+[16:29] We're both kind of like grew up near the desert. And um, you know, the idea is not to make it in San Francisco. We're and we were certainly not, we were up in Petaluma making this first batch. But then, you know, thank God we have this amazing state full of agriculture and a lot of history of you know, making um spirits and wine. And you know, that's so that's kind of how that all came to be.
+
+[16:52] So to answer your customer's question, it's not we're not being San Francisco specific, we're actually just trying to get, you know, a really great product made by people who know how to make the stuff. Can I tell you the only time I was ever in Petaluma? I was in Petaluma with Harold McGee. We went to a thrift store and we went in and they had a secret room full of Nazi mobilia. And Harold and I were like, Oh my god.
+
+[17:13] Harold and I were like, Oh, let's let's get the hell out. And that was the only time I was because Harold was like, There's some good bakery here in Petaluma. They were closed, and we're like, Oh, I'm like, let's go to a thrift shop because you know, me. And then like in Nastas is the same way. And uh yeah, we were like, oh man, we gotta get the hell out of Petaluma.
+
+[17:31] We're gonna get kids. Yeah. Yeah. By the way, so anyway, that yeah. Go ahead.
+
+[17:37] I was gonna say, I th uh I just watered it, and I think you get like some of the because I like in even in a quote unquote neutral, I like feeling kind of where it comes from and uh like kind of think where it comes from, like fruitiness comes out more when it's watered a little bit. What do you think? Yeah. I mean, are you guys talking talking to your people in the studio? Because I Yeah, we're getting crazy we're getting cranked up here in the studio.
+
+[17:59] So, like I did water it with uh with Pellegrino because that's how fancy we are. Actually, it's the only water I have here, but uh yeah, yeah. Anyway, yeah. Well, this is a it's an interesting kind of new spirit because you know there isn't really date brandy out there, and it's technically a brandy or an O de V according to the TTB. But in my mind, the date is, you know, as somebody who's been cooking and baking with dates pretty much my whole life.
+
+[18:26] Um I think of the dates as being this beautiful caramelized fruit that's you know, caramelized in the hot desert sun. It's it's uh we use it as an alternative sweetener. Um it it's lower glycemic. That makes a lot more sense to me as far as a DGVO. Um, there's something about the mouthfeel of the date that, you know, especially when you get into the sweetening side in the Amaro and the cacao nib, but there it's just a soft round caramelized fruit.
+
+[18:55] And so I think of it more like the way we think of agave as an alternative sweetener and how agave works so well um in a spirit. That's that's how I feel about the date. It's like, oh, this just totally makes sense. It's gonna be like another grape-based spirit, and it works really well with other spirits in cocktails. Uh yeah, I mean, I've typically used dates in grain based in whiskies.
+
+[19:20] Let me ask you this. I haven't looked it up because I'm again too stupid to have looked it up beforehand. But uh, what's the primary sugar in dates? Is it a fructose situation or is it a sucrose situation? Or, you know, something like Dave.
+
+[19:34] I shouldn't be ready for you for this because I have to look this stuff up all the time too. It doesn't just roll out of my head. I believe it's alulose. What? Algulose.
+
+[19:42] No, I don't think so. No, it's not. Okay. Maybe there's some in there. Like the thing is like dates are like uh humans throughout history have loved fruits that are preposterously high in sugar, right?
+
+[19:55] Because they're useful, right? So dates, obviously, grapes, duh. You know what I mean? Like, so uh, or honey, not a fruit. But I'm curious, like, do you have some of the is is a date have enough stuff in it on its own to want to ferment, or does it get stuck like honey and you have to hit it with nutrient?
+
+[20:18] Um wait, I'm gonna I'm going back to your question of how much what the sugar is in your screen in a few seconds. I think it's a quick research, yeah. Mainly fructose? Yeah. Also glucose, but mainly fructose, yeah.
+
+[20:30] Checks it out. Although it's weird. It's a it's a l it's a it's a no acid almost fruit, low acid. So it's interesting that like it's completely inverted. So it must be storing it as fructose.
+
+[20:42] You know what I'm saying? Palms are so crazy, man. Like like fruits from some of palm tree fruits are so not sweet at all. You know what I mean? Or so oily.
+
+[20:55] Palms are amazing. I wish I lived in a place that palms grew. I wish that I could ever live anywhere other than right here. Like, you know what I mean? Like, uh, but alas, I can't.
+
+[21:09] Okay, so uh, so what what should we move to next? You want to move to Chocolate or you want to move to the uh the Amaro, the flag, the flag ship. Can I tell you again how stupid I am? Can I give you one more? We're gonna go to chocolate first, because I can tell you how stupid I am.
+
+[21:25] I think you would I would go to cacao nib first. Yeah, all right. So put uh John, pour some of that out. So let me see the label first. Let me see the label first.
+
+[21:32] So it says on the label, gotta understand. So this got delivered to the wrong address. It got delivered to the residence. So like I we didn't I didn't know where it was last night, so I'm like buzzing in. So I rush into the bar knowing nothing.
+
+[21:42] And I see on it it says cacao nib liqueur, and then but I don't look at that, I just look at the side and it says made with dandelion. I see dandelion. I don't can't see the word small batch because I didn't have the right glasses on. I just see the words dandelion and chocolate. I was like, okay, this is an Amaro made with dandelion root and and chocolate.
+
+[22:01] And then like, and then so then I drink it and I'm talking to that guy next to me, the same person who called you out on the San Francisco thing, and I was like, I mean, I taste the chocolate, but I don't taste any Danny dandelion root. I mean, I don't taste it at all. And he's like, you idiot, that's a chocolate manufacturer in San Francisco. I was like, oh geez, Louise. Anyway, yeah.
+
+[22:23] All right, so we're pouring this one out. So you wanna um so it's interesting. Just chocolate and date. Yeah, so this the way the reason I just came to be is because Heather and I started out, okay, let's make an Amaro that doesn't have any artificial flavors or colors. There's no caramel colors, just you know, the color comes from the date, the sweetness comes from dates.
+
+[22:44] Oh, let's make a date spirit. Amazing. And then I was like, oh my God, think of all the things I can do with a date spirit. And um, so I, you know, am a big fan of dandelion chocolate maker in San Francisco. They make they specialize in single origin uh source nibs for all these different chocolate bars, and it's really nerdy.
+
+[23:03] And Dave, you must you have to know dandelion chocolate because it's really fun to taste and study the different bars that they make just because of their different origin of cacao. So different nibs from them. Yeah, I took some different nibs from them, made um uh some liqueurs, we took it to dandelion and said, This is kind of fun. We're doing what you do in bars that looked in a chocolate liqueur. And when I think, I don't know about you, but when I think chocolate liqueur, it's not yeah, I have like a ooh, no, I don't think so.
+
+[23:35] That's not my thing. And I wanted to make something that was like, God, this tastes like liquid chocolate, you know, makes me think of campfires in the desert and s'mores and just all that, you know, yummy, it's something I really want to pour on ice cream, something that I want to mix in cocktails, mix with coffee. So um, we came up with this uh it's only it's we have we actually have this really special little kit available right now, too, through reserve bar, and it's got the bottle of our cacao nib liqueur plus a bar that dandelion made for us, but the so same two things date sweetened only and the single origin cacao nibs from Camino Verde Estate in Ecuador are in both products, and it comes in this little cute little kit with two little packets of instant espresso from equator coffee, and so you can make a little mocha carahillo or a cafe carah. We put the cocktail recipes in there. It's a really good way to amplify your still ever so popular espresso martini, uh, um but make it mocha.
+
+[24:35] So you know what I mean? But uh I I'm with you, but like it's it's not my thing either, but like it's just a really fun chocolate liqueur that's just you know it's very pure. If people are like, Do you have an espresso martino? I'm like, well, there's a bar right across the street. You know, uh no.
+
+[24:54] Uh I hear you. Yeah, no, we had we we've had them from time to time. Everyone wants to, I'm like, you know what? Okay, fine. You know what I mean?
+
+[25:02] Whatever. Uh I think it's I think it's uh delicious. By the way, uh before I forget, because I'm the master blaster of forgetting, uh, reserve bar is where people who can they can just order it, it will be shipped to them, correct? That's correct. And it's just and you can buy it and ship it to a lot of states, which you know, since we're like right out of the gate new, you know, we have distribution in California and we have some in Louisiana now, and you know, getting to some other states and New York is a priority because we know you guys have really fantastic uh cocktail culture.
+
+[25:32] So but reserve bar is a really cool e-commerce, um, like a curated website, you know, place you can buy all kinds of stuff. And um, so we're happy to have our all all three of our products plus the kit available on there. Yeah, yeah. So uh uh not to put you on the spot, but here I am putting you on the spot. So can you give a would is there any way that you would uh like look clear to giving our Patreon members a little discount code that we could put out on our Patreon?
+
+[25:58] Is that possible? I don't know if it's possible with reserve. I don't even know if I'm allowed to do that. Heather, are we allowed to do anything like that? I have no idea.
+
+[26:05] Well, there are a couple of holiday codes. There's a holiday 24 code available right now, and if you're a new time customer, then there's a pen percent, but I can I can work with them. They they've been an amazing partner for us. We're uh part of their um diversity um pages. So they've given us um a women only marking and specialized pages and give us a discount to to do um business with them, and so it's just been an incredible partnership for us.
+
+[26:29] Nice. All right. Well, uh we'll I guess talk off, uh have Quinn get touchy to talk talk off air. But hopefully, you know, because we have a Patreon. You want to tell John, you want to tell them why they might want to join the Patreon?
+
+[26:38] Yeah, patreon.com slash cooking issues is where you can find out about it. Uh we got three different membership levels, you get perks at every membership level. Um, you get access to our Discord, you get discounts with awesome people that we work with. Um prioritize question answering and just a whole bunch of other things. So yeah, check it out.
+
+[26:53] Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Which even though we're halfway into the show, we aren't gonna answer the questions. But we we gotta we we're talking, we're talking liquor right now. Yeah. Once I'm talking about liquor.
+
+[27:01] Yes, Doz, have you gotten to try these yet or no? No, I don't deserve it. Oh. Dave. Where can we like it?
+
+[27:11] I got a question for you. Yeah, what do you got? It's Elizabeth. Um I am wondering if you when you've been to Palm Desert, Palm Springs on your way, you know, people get date shakes. Have you ever had one of those?
+
+[27:24] No, I've heard they're good though. No. Well, it's yeah, I mean, it's like a no-brainer. It's like dates and ice cream blended together. It's a little sweet for me too, but I you know, if I had it with uh an ice cream I really liked or some other, you know, non-dairy thing, that might be kind of okay too.
+
+[27:43] It just depends. But I think that this um cacao nib or the amara is so good with it with ice cream or yogurt or whatever you want to do. But like I just think it's a really interesting, better way to do the date shake. I'm just throwing it out there. All right.
+
+[28:00] Uh by the way, uh, for those people who are worried about uh cacao nibs. So like 10 years ago, 12 years ago, whatever, when I, you know, wrote the liquid intelligence, bait I basically said, be careful with cacao nibs because they suck. And I was like, unless the company you're buying from really cares about cacao nibs, they suck. Because they put they put their crappiest possible cacao nibs into a bag and they're like, these are gonna taste like garbage anyway. Whatever this cook's gonna do with this is gonna be garbage, so I'm gonna give them garbage.
+
+[28:30] So like I'm not gonna call them out, but there's a famous San Francisco company whose cacao nibs taste like burnt and gross. You know what I mean? Uh yeah, yeah. Yeah. But um, so that's why I said Valrona.
+
+[28:42] Go with Valrona because everyone can get Valrona and Valrona does a good job on, you know, Valrona is like the best of the mediums. Like you know what I mean? Like you know what I'm saying? Yeah. I think.
+
+[28:52] Anyway. Uh Rona is a great chocolate maker. Yeah. Yeah. So, but you're saying dandelion dandelion does a good job with their nibs in general, or just for you?
+
+[29:01] Because uh these the the like they taste it tastes good, tastes really good. I like it. You know what I mean? So like I'm just asking. Yeah, no, dandelion is um I've so I think you know this about me, but I've you know, I'm somebody who used to make a lot of chocolate, everything when I had citizen cake.
+
+[29:17] Um, and then I've I've also been to a lot of cacao growing regions. So I in the ear in my before I even had my own places in San Francisco, I um went to Venezuela and studied chocolate for a couple weeks. Um I've been to Dominican Republic and Madagascar, and all those trips were um around chocolate and stuff and really studying that. And then I was friends with Robert Steinberg, who started Sharpenberger chocolate maker and was he was really obsessed with um Venezuelan beans, and then dandelion comes along, you know, 10 years later after that, and they start going. I mean, I've been to one of their um estates in in Dominican Republic called Zorzal.
+
+[29:56] And they care the to s go from like the early 90s in Venezuela with El Ray chocolate to um Dominican with um dandelion and see how the fermentation and how they care for the nibs and it and then that they can also, you know, we're looking at other big giant chocolate companies that you can see that they don't care about their beans as much. They don't go through the same care and attention as uh somebody like this very small bean to bar chocolate maker like dandelion does. And so when you taste, you can go into any of their shops and taste their bars, but they also have the nibs usually right there too. So you can really taste the difference and the and the care that's gone into um caring for that very special plant that grows those amazing pods of uh, you know, chocolate beans with all the all the pulp and all that stuff. It's it's just really I'm uh I'm obsessive about ingredients and chocolate is something that I mean as Kether, I'll be like, you know, I can't just buy any cocoa nibs.
+
+[30:57] There's I I agree with you, Dave. Like it a lot of times you're just like this tastes like wax or plastic or it doesn't or burnt, you know, like all that stuff. So um I'm really picky about it. And that's why it was just like, oh, I have all these nibs because I have a nice relationship with dandelion anyway, just because I've you know done events with them and I I don't I mean, we used to buy, you know, back when I was living in San Francisco, we used to buy really good chocolate from a couple different sources. But when dandelion came along, I mean that it's more of a retail product, but they do have some stuff for um for ho for restaurant and chef people too.
+
+[31:34] Let me bounce something off you. So uh way back in the day when uh, you know, uh Jacques Therese hung up his uh, you know, n you know, normal pastry chef hat, right? Restaurant pastry chef hat and opened Jacques Therese like chocolate. You know, even like five years after that. So we're still talking like maybe it's like I don't know, whatever that was, like 15 years ago, 16 years ago, uh or 12 years ago, whatever it was, you know, I was just talking to him about it because obviously French culinary, both French culinary, and uh he was like, you know, the problem is is that for uh however good I can be, like I can't get the I don't have the buying power to get the good uh to get the good beans to get the good, you know, good product.
+
+[32:20] And I was like, oh man, that sucks. And then I think a lot of that has changed. I think now people can get actually like smaller manufacturers can get good stuff. And do you think that A, do you think that's true? And B, do you think that part of that has to do with the homemaking chocolate revolution in the way that like you know, like home brewing caused the craft movement to explode?
+
+[32:42] Yeah, I think I think that's true. I think that there's been such an explosion on the shelf of just retail um bean to bar chocolate, and that like we were at what was that, Heather? What was that a thing in San Francisco that we went to that was like a whole chocolate experience? Oh, the craft all the craft chocolate, craft chocolate experience, yeah. Yeah, we went there and did some cocktails with our stuff.
+
+[33:05] Um, and we tasted all these different small, small, you know, uh global different uh brands of um bean to bar chocolate. And boy, you can really I think it's because you can just really taste the difference, and people are, you know, it's it is like the craft brewing and coffee explosion that has happened. It's I think chocolate's kind of already been through that too. That's kind of why we think that like um, you know, this craft of spilling in America is really uh a cool time right now because people are making some pretty interesting things all over all over the country. Um, you know, it's getting into all these different little liqueurs and whatnot bitters and everything.
+
+[33:48] All right, so now uh John has poured out uh the Amaro, which is I guess we're ending where you theoretically started, right? Uh with the Amaro. Now uh what j just so that uh I don't have to actually like do a bunch of density tests and crap because I really actually don't like doing it even though I have to. Like what how much sugar per liter are we talking on on the cocoa nib and the uh and the amount? Do you have that measured?
+
+[34:15] Or are you gonna make me measure? Uh you got sound of a gun. The brick the no, the bricks on it on the Amaro is like um I think it's around twenty. Yeah, but you can't you can't you can't because that's an alcohol. Oh, I'll measure it.
+
+[34:31] I'll measure it. So I I I use the I use the uh what's it? You got all your tools there. Yeah. Well, so like I went around for the for the redo of this book, which is never ending.
+
+[34:43] I went around with a a density meter, like this an electronic density meter and a refractometer, and the combination of those two numbers can get me ABV and um and sugar. And it works. It means I need one of those. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You should mean like I don't like the company because they charge you a subscription to get the last decimal point even after I've paid for the piece of equipment.
+
+[35:06] But uh Yeah, yeah, it's good. I mean it works. It does what it does what it needs to do. All right, so we have the Amaro here. It's rocking in.
+
+[35:14] Both of both of your uh liqueurs are uh coming in at 35%. Uh I don't know why I always ask proof because I think in percentages. Proof's a dumb number. Yeah, we need to get rid of proof. Proof is proof is just an proof is more proof that we're weirdos as this as a nation, as if you needed any proof that we were weirdos.
+
+[35:33] You know what I mean? It's funny that you say that because you know, here I do, you know, I've been cooking and baking all these years, and when I started working in this and making up the formula for the Amaro and um and then talking to the distillers and uh, you know, I'm like, God, everybody speaks such a dramatically different language, and then they're always like I speak in metric, but then they mostly speak in gallons and proof gallons, and I'm like, it's a whole learning curve I'm going through here because I don't speak the I don't really speak the same language as you guys yet. Ain't nothing dumber than the proof gallon. You know what I mean? The whole thing is crazy.
+
+[36:10] Like it's it's all because of arcane tax garbage. You know what I mean? I know. Well, I feel like I'm supposed to be like ordering fruit in bushels or something too, if I'm gonna speak in the language. Pecks, pecks, how many hogsheads do we have?
+
+[36:24] You know what I mean? Like the whole thing's the whole thing's absurd. Uh all right, so tell us the spice baseness. It's lovely. I I I would use it like uh what's your I forget what you have in your standard pour for this.
+
+[36:36] It's uh your what's your hero pour, as they say. It's such a dumb term. I hate all I hate all marketing terms, like they're the worst. Like the expression. When someone says, How many expressions of of gin do you have?
+
+[36:49] I'm like, you mean like different labels, different brands? What are you talking? You know what I mean? But like, so uh yeah. So what's what what what do you what are people doing with it?
+
+[36:59] I just want to okay, I'm gonna explain that, but I wanted to explain how w the reason I kind of look at this like I wanna I really want to respect the flavor of the date itself and then take people on a journey. Um it's gonna sound more like a perfume maker, but that's really true. I wanted to like say, okay, people are making some interesting things around the country. I'm I I do like uh Angelina Amaro, which is more a wine-based Amaro out here in California, made in Vince by Ventura Spirits. But I wanted it to be a little bit more of uh a nod to the historical Amaros that I like.
+
+[37:36] Um so I, you know, um I'm somebody who really likes Southern Italian food and and the Amari from there. So I like um I wanted the citrus. I wanted, and because I want to take you on a little trip around California, so from the desert with the date being the most predominant flavor, to you know all over California where we grow citrus and then give you some of those um fennel notes that you get when you're driving up and down the state because we have a lot of wild fennel that grows on the side of the highway, and there's different times of the year where it just is like in the air and it smells so good. Can I mention can I mention your fennel pizza won world's best pizza in 2012, your fennel pollen pizza, correct or incorrect? Very correct.
+
+[38:20] It's called uh Pinocchio Flower Power. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So big fan of the fennel pollen, you know. Um never got huge. I thought it was gonna become the next everything, and it didn't.
+
+[38:32] Because people are dumb, like me. Well, you know what's really cool about the pizza is that um I a couple of restaurants in San Francisco over time, and including Dan Ricker in Raza, New Jersey, Jersey City makes um we've he's made an homage pizza um to that Pinocchio flower power. And it's kind of cool because sometimes it's in it's actually in Dan's book too. So I you know I'll make it here and there and people are like, oh my God, this is so you know it's uh whatever. Sorry.
+
+[39:01] I drail do my a classic me I drail. Okay, so you're talking about driving highway fennel there. Okay, yeah, go ahead. Sorry. So and then um but just kind of to give you a little you know the flavors from here because we're making a product from you know this state but it that that isn't so full of itself.
+
+[39:20] It's trying to it's really wanting to respect the flavor of the date nod to the past and the sort of fun and bizarre and wild um I do remember when um Nancy Silverton at uh Austria Musa here had they had Joe and everybody brought in all these different Amaros and they had a little Amaro cart when they first opened they don't do that now but it was so cool because they had stuff that just smelled like church and like you know frankincense color brew and stuff. Yeah crazy stuff. My wife hates frankincense by the way so it's kind of too bad. I I kinda like frankincense. My wife hates it hates it.
+
+[39:57] Is that right? Yeah she hates it. Um yeah I'm I'm I'm a fan of the the resin stuff I I like mastic I like frequency I like myrrh and I I think it's so um I think it's wild that these things have been around for so long and not just in churches but in culinary um and in beverages. Yeah. And um anyway, so that's that's kind of how the Amaro is is going to lead you down a path of like, oh, I feel like I'm you know, kind of going from the Sierras to the desert to the Sierras to the coast, you know, and and some of those ingredients.
+
+[40:32] I'm really obsessed with the different um varietals of citrus here. So there's a few different citrus dry hydrated citrus in there. Really great working with great farmers here, organic, like everything. Um it doesn't say a hundred percent organic on the label because um the distillery that we made this batch in uh is not certified. So yeah, also man, we're really going out of the way.
+
+[40:54] Yeah, I mean, like anytime a lay anytime a label is involved like that, it's like you can get co-opted by jerks. This is why like it's more like knowing your product to me. I understand it from a marketing perspective. It it's super important to label. I'm not disagreeing at all, but like for me, it's much more about knowing and trusting the people that you're buying from.
+
+[41:13] You know what I'm saying? That's right. Yeah, totally. And like we worked with this great citrus farmer here. Um, also great artichokes.
+
+[41:22] So, you know, it's got some of those things in it. Um who loves artichokes? Nastasia the hammer lopez. Oh my god, right? Yeah, I was driving up and yeah, I was in Santa Clarita or whatever, somewhere up there this weekend, and put like artichokes forever, as far as you can see, it was so beautiful.
+
+[41:42] Oh, they're just the best. I'm uh I'm a huge fan of artichokes too. And especially I've like I've been to Christly three times in the last four years from like different, you know, those like different chef trips, chef led trips, like you know, fun stuff with uh total strangers. And um, but uh those artichokes in um Catania that they just grilling on this on you know, I mean the market and on the street, just with like lemon and garlic and olive oil, it's like it's so delicious. You know, as they used to say in the kitchen world must be nice.
+
+[42:19] I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very spoiled. Yeah. Uh before we uh before we go talk about like, you know, questions in Thanksgiving garbage and all that.
+
+[42:27] Uh which date are you are you using uh what are you using for this? Which date? A specific date or like a mix or what? It's a mix of Majoule and Deglet. Deglet noor.
+
+[42:39] Yep. Uh but you know, pretty much Dega Nore is like all the other varieties. But we do have like amazing different um species, varieties of dates uh here in California. So w we're interested in in looking at all of that even more. And I do wanna um bring up that Heather was really the person who was obsessed with like, you know what we need to do is we need to take all the the skirts off those palm trees everywhere and turn that into paper for our packaging.
+
+[43:09] And so the first thing that we've done is make our labels out of the upcycled palm fronds that were going to landville s landfill. So we we found an arborist that collects all that you know, they con they're contracted in different cities to clean up all the palms and all the other trees out there. And so we went out to their lot and picked up um you know, all this palm frond and we had it made into pulp and paper by a papermaker in San Diego. So um that's kind of unique and uh everybody really does love the the feel of the label. Um it's really different than the sort of glossy, shiny stuff that typic typically people make for their for their beverages bottles.
+
+[43:48] Um, and and it I don't know, there's something it just it just feels like the right thing to do. We're, you know, wanting to try to have a lesser footprint in the things that we're making. So that these things are very conscious decisions uh on our part. You know, the it's a hundred percent cork in the bottle, not plastic, and by the way, so that's a big deal. For those of you uh bar weasels out there, it's a one-piece composite cork, so the cap won't be separating off the cork when you pull it out, which I oh my god, do I hate that?
+
+[44:18] God, do I hate that? My goodness. Jeez, Louise. And then, like what? Now I gotta find another thing in the bar because if it doesn't have a sp if it's not in the rail and doesn't have a speed on it, right?
+
+[44:30] Then I mean not that I like speeds at all, but like I bend, I bend, right? But like yeah, then what I gotta jam some other freaking cork in it, like a jerk. I don't know. Right. Yeah.
+
+[44:42] Um so but I wanted to answer your other question about um what this works really well in as far as cocktails go. I mean, I'm really interested in like what you would make, what other bartenders that have been doing this craft for so long would make with it. You know, we like it in a black Manhattan like you would use Nomara, but I have been experimenting and making some um different cocktails and spritzes with it too. And I came up with one a couple weeks ago that was pretty damn tasty. It was like I used an ounce of our uh O de V and an ounce of Amaro, and then I used like um I kind of have two versions of this, and I call it a carpe sutura spritz, but I it was like a spoonful of cher of sour cherry syrup, um, and then some yuzu juice and uh a little bit of all spice dram.
+
+[45:32] I'm gonna I'm gonna say like a quarter ounce. Um, and that just was a little bit of like club soda or a little bit of like um whatever, like a lint, like a not a super sweet lemon soda with it is quite tasty. The all spice didn't ride over the top of your product? Because I find any time anyway they put it in, I'm like, oh my, all spice, all spice. No?
+
+[45:59] All right. It wasn't too much for me. I think the blend of the spices that are in our amara with that is what's kind of it just it just everybody was like, what is this? It's so tasty. Um and I did it instead of I like the ch I'm a big fan of that sour cherry syrup, that concentrated, you know, Michigan cherry syrup.
+
+[46:19] Um, but I also like uh just date syrup. So instead of the cherry. And so, you know, it wouldn't give you as much acidity, but that yuzu juice with it. Anyway, it just I feel like we also used it in a margarita. We call it a margarita.
+
+[46:32] So it's like an ounce of blanco tequila, an ounce of our O de V, and an ounce of the Amaro as the sweetener, and then lime juice. And that's pretty fun because it's just different. It's got all that citrus up you know up front. Um can you can you make it blue? Can you make it blue?
+
+[46:49] No, I'm kidding. You can't like uh no, it's dark. You can't make it blue. Can't make it blue. We we we've been pouring at the bar incredibly cheap blue curacao because it was very high up in an 18-way orange liqueur tasting.
+
+[47:03] And so it kind of is a joke, but we also kind of like it. We've been pouring blue margaritas. I get it. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[47:11] It's like the shark bite or whatever that's that's uh John Deberry's drink. Yeah. Yeah. Uh yeah. All right, hold on a sec.
+
+[47:18] So uh before we leave this, because I we gotta rush through like you know, Thanksgiving and all that and questions. Uh on the label, I'm gonna read the Latin and you're gonna translate it. I already looked up, but it's from some famous quote, but I don't remember what the famous quote is. Uh ducks femina facet et carpe futura. Yeah, so two women two made by two women.
+
+[47:42] Or two women made this, uh, and then sees the future. There you go. All right. So go on uh reservebar dot com, pick some up. Maybe we'll get you well, maybe we'll get you a little little little something something for Patreon listeners.
+
+[47:55] All right, all right, now uh very quickly, speed round. What do we have from last week and what's going on for Thanksgiving for the crew? What do we got? You guys included, Elizabeth Heather. Family Thanksgiving this week in Connecticut.
+
+[48:07] Yeah, going to Connecticut? Yeah. Going to old Lime. Yep. Yeah.
+
+[48:10] What are you gonna make? Standard? Stuffing turkey gravy. Yeah, who's you doing it or your mom doing it? I'm doing that.
+
+[48:16] What kind of turkey you got? Uh whatever she gets. She gets all the supplies and yeah. From the big wine lime. No.
+
+[48:23] Um there's a butcher shop grocery store on the main street in old Saybrook. And are you gonna do it traditional? Are you gonna spatcock that mother? Spatchcock and then on the grill. All right, okay.
+
+[48:33] How do you you have one of those super fancy grills now? No, charcoal. Oh, all right. I like charcoal, charcoal. Okay, good, good.
+
+[48:39] And uh are you a sweet potato family or not? We are not. I do love sweet potato, but yeah. You asked? I do love sweet potato, but it's never been a thing for Thanksgiving.
+
+[48:47] Never? No. If you had sweet potatoes, would you want marshmallows and almonds? Not almonds, but definitely marshmallows. Okay.
+
+[48:55] Yeah. Okay. Tiny marshmallows. Yeah. For the last couple of minutes.
+
+[48:59] Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. Uh what kind of stuffing?
+
+[49:05] Uh a lot of sage, breakfast sausage, cellar carrot onion, green apples, dried cranberries. Green apples, huh? Yeah. Okay. Not dried, fresh.
+
+[49:13] Yep. Okay. All right. Uh all right, Jack, I haven't heard from you. What about you?
+
+[49:18] What are you doing for Thanksgiving? Going to Connecticut, you're going to Stanford, Bob. Who's there? Which which part of your family's? Yeah.
+
+[49:23] It's my brother, and he's got three kids, and he's stressed and lazy, so he's probably just uh phoning it in. By the way, I like how you think last year you just got a rotisserie chicken. Cheese Louise, man. Yeah. Hey, man, you know.
+
+[49:38] No turkey? Full full-time teacher, three kids, no time off. He's just, you know. All is forgiven. Okay.
+
+[49:44] You know what? You know what? Okay. Oh, I'm like, oh, I have all the kids, so you have to come to my house. Why don't I then suck it up and make the freaking turkey?
+
+[49:52] You know what I mean? Look, Peter Singer, for all of you who don't eat meat at all, Peter Singer did a big uh essay on why you shouldn't have turkey. It was in the New York Times. Like I already know all of Peter Singer's arguments. I've read Animal Liberation like a billion times.
+
+[50:04] I just happen to disagree. I'm gonna eat turkey. Cause ain't nothing smell like a roasting turkey. Like a roasted turkey smells delicious. You know what I mean?
+
+[50:14] Yeah. It just does. And the sandwich is the next day, arguably the best meal of the year. Sandwiches. Come on.
+
+[50:24] Turkey. Uh all right. So are you are you bringing anything? Do you have to bring anything? I'm only bringing Parker House rolls and dessert to my thing.
+
+[50:32] I'm also gonna bring some cheese, because please. Because my cheesemonger, my brother's fiance, who's a cheesmonger, isn't gonna show up until right before we eat. And so I'm I mean, and and I know that even though Maria Guarnicelli, my editor, hated people that serve cheese before the meal. Hated them. That's just what my family does.
+
+[50:50] I'm sorry. Anyway, uh so uh Stas, what do you what are you doing? What happened? I'm having my mom's dry turkey. How about the gravy?
+
+[51:05] What kind of what kind of gravy on it? Pack it. Do you even walk into the kitchen during Thanksgiving, or is it just that gonna be too much stress? I don't, I'm not allowed to walk into the kitchen. Does your mom still have the roasted red pepper dishes that she used to have?
+
+[51:28] Oh no. No. And you like a sweet potato with your with your Thanksgiving, correct, Nastasia? Are you sweet and mash? You like sweet and mash?
+
+[51:37] Yes, I do. And how's your family sweet potato? What's what's the stuff? I love the big marshmallows. Big marshmallows.
+
+[51:44] Big marshmallows. Big marshmallows. Nice. Are you are are are are you guys a uh tin foil for like you know almost an hour and then rip the tinfoil off and brown the hell out of the top of it, kind of a sitch? No.
+
+[51:59] No. That's I guess what we do. Anyway, we'll use a small marshmallows. Anyway. Uh Heather Elizabeth, what are you guys doing?
+
+[52:08] We are going over to my dad and stepmom's house. My mom will be there too with her boyfriend, which is really cool. My parents all get along. Um, and Heather's got her two boys, twin boys here uh down from San Francisco, and they're 17, and so they're coming over. We're all going over, and I'm making turkey and like a sage um gravy, and I'm making some packery pasta with some Mount Etna vodka sauce.
+
+[52:36] It's gonna be spicy and saffron y. Nice. And uh and it'll have a little creme fresh and pecorino in there, and then my mom is making stuffing and pies. My mom's a really good baker. I got it from somebody.
+
+[52:44] And um, and then the boys are making the heather's kids are helping me make everything, and they're gonna um make some of the Parker House rolls. And uh we're definitely gonna have some carpe futura spritz for everybody because my family is like obsessed with our stuff. And the last time I was we were tasting them on I think when we when we finally bottled the cacao nib, my mom just put her hand on the table and said, We're gonna need a lot more of this. Nice, nice. By the way, those weasels at the Parker house uh back in West Massachusetts, right?
+
+[53:23] They really did a good roll. They really knew how to make a roll. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, and the correct answer is butter. The correct answer is butter.
+
+[53:30] You know what I mean? White butter all over that thing. I'm gonna make it into a little Pac-Man garbage and then white butter all over it. Everyone's gonna love it. And you know what?
+
+[53:39] They're right. You know what? Every year when I when when I have to bring Parker House rolls to someplace, I'm like, eh, eh, I want to get the rice just right. And so like I want to bake it on site and like have it be fresh when it comes out. But this yeah, to hell with it.
+
+[53:52] Crap on it. If you want me to bring the rolls, I'm gonna bake them off in the morning, and then we'll just reheat them, and you chumps can just deal with it. You're not gonna get the hyper fresh, but I really prefer them right when they come out of the oven. Cause yeah. But suck it.
+
+[54:08] Yeah. But you know what the thing is, is that like, you know, when you go to someone else's house, like me, you know, my my sister and brother's house, it's like when's the oven free? When's the turkey coming out? And then you're the person hogging the oven, then you're the bad person. You know what I mean?
+
+[54:21] Hell with it. Hell with it. No. You know what I mean? Uh all right.
+
+[54:27] Uh Joe, what are you doing? I am going down to South Florida. Uh, sorry, I wasn't prepared to talk. Um, I'm going to South Florida. My father is still in the hospital, so we're going to have dinner in his room.
+
+[54:37] So good to see your dad. But excellent to see my dad. Yes. Give my sisters off. So they've been spending time with him down there.
+
+[54:44] So it's my turn. But my uh my wife and my son are going to Denver. Oh. So they're going to share their Thanksgiving with uh their very good friends, um, which should be nice. Um high altitude Thanksgiving.
+
+[54:56] Yeah, I'm a little nervous because my son's got asthma. So um uh yeah, lots of uh lots of barbuterol, I'm sure. Will the dryness help though? I hope. I hope.
+
+[55:05] I don't know. Uh I'm not sure. It's gonna be a whole new experiment. Speaking of visiting people, my uh my brother-in-law, his grandmother is still alive. She's a hundred and five, and every Thanksgiving they go and visit her.
+
+[55:19] Wow in the yeah, in her assisted living place. A hundred and five. Still sharp. Still sharp. That's amazing.
+
+[55:28] She's had like five friend groups all die off. I think no one wants to be friends with her. No one wants to be friends with her because they're like, oh, uh, that's a death warrant. You know what I mean? That's crazy.
+
+[55:40] She's like living in her own little blue zone, wherever she is. Yeah, I don't know what the hell. You know, somewhere in like, you know, off Hilton Head, South Carolina. All right. All right, here are some questions.
+
+[55:50] Uh anyone, we only have four minutes. We got all these questions to go to. Uh, chefs, weigh in, you know, Elizabeth John. Uh, positive MD. What are some good side dishes to pair with Porchetta?
+
+[55:59] Maybe something that could cut through the fat. Hurry, fast. Broccoli Rob. Oh, that's a good call. Broccoli Rob.
+
+[56:04] Do you pre-uh blanch it to get rid of the bitter or you straight broccoli robin? I like the butter. Do you like the bitter? But you gotta remember, some people don't like it. My wife doesn't like it.
+
+[56:10] Yeah. But you don't blanch it. No. What about you, Elizabeth? You blanch your broccoli broccoli?
+
+[56:14] Broccoli rub. I do. Yeah, I do. It depends on where how I'm cooking it. Um, but I was gonna say a really good accompaniment to that pocket would be a citrus and fennel salad.
+
+[56:25] Ooh, raw fennel shade, really thin, some orange, maybe a little bit of olive in there. And just olive oil. Keep it simple. Hey, you know what? Positive MD?
+
+[56:35] You could do both. You could do both. Those are not mutually exclusive. Uh I like a little, especially, well, I guess you're worried about creating the fat, but the but the thing about broccoli rob, it needs some nice olive oil on top. Otherwise, you're a jerk.
+
+[56:46] Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And a lot of lemon juice. Yeah.
+
+[56:49] Do you know what's delicious? And you can get it canned, fry relly. A good fryerly. Anyway, uh making Dave's stuffing from the Recipe Club podcast. He talks about doing the stuffing sous vide before finishing under the turkey.
+
+[57:03] Are there temps or either for both steps? Listen, don't sous vide it in the sense of putting it in a vacuum bag. I put it in a Ziploc bag. You don't want to compress the hell out of your stuffing. But what I'll what I do is I heat the plug in a zippy, and I do it.
+
+[57:15] You can do it a high temperature because stuffing can withstand a high temperature. So just whatever the maximum you're feel comfortable holding it, like 85 or something, but your bag will start degrading. So like ADC or something like this. And then I take my bird that I've ripped the backbone out of and I lay it over the plug and then I cook it out that way. That's that's the way you do it.
+
+[57:34] Just do not vacuum the stuffing. What do you got, John? For your uh stuffing. Um somebody was thinking about using impossible breakfast sausage in place of the pork, but would that be the wrong flavor profile? It's very good, but just like a meat breakfast sausage if you haven't had it before.
+
+[57:46] Is it sagey? I'm not sure it doesn't say it in my own. I use Joan's, like the the standard one is Joan's. So it's a sagey breakfast sausage. I'm sure it's fine.
+
+[57:55] The quite the answer is I'm sure it's fine. Uh although I don't know if you're if you're gonna be vegetarian, if you're gonna be vegan, I don't know how you get around the eggs. But whatever your egg replacer is. Arnie writes in longtime listener, first time interaction on Discord. I've been asked to barbecue.
+
+[58:08] This is an important one. I was like, so like here, we have two-minute whistle to deal with this. Ready, folks? Uh we've never had a reindeer question. I've been asked to barbecue a whole reindeer in Trimson, Norway, for the solstice.
+
+[58:19] I'm looking for advice, not a pro, and I will have to build whatever contraption is needed. I will have access to a metal workshop, welder, etc. And I do have experience with fabrication. I've made a rotisserie for lamb before, and I barbecued whole lamb a few times. Reindeer, though, are bigger.
+
+[58:32] I've requested a small calf, hopefully not more than about 30 uh kilograms, 55 pounds. Temperatures where I'm cooking can get as low as minus 15 C, but zero to five negative five is more likely, as this is the Arctic and the weather is unpredictable. I've lived there, so I know what to expect. Uh, and I know the best advice is don't do it. Reindeer are very lean, and the meat is not going to be forgiving if overcooked.
+
+[58:52] There's no way I can get a barbecue big enough. So I'll have to dig through the snow and make a fire directly on the ground. Personally, I think a better solution is to butcher the animal and barbecue the legs, uh ribs and neck and slow and do the backstraps and sirloins hot and fast, and I can also make a soup with a spinous grabs. I mean, you already know the correct answer, Arnie. That's the correct answer.
+
+[59:10] John Elizabeth, do you agree that that's the correct answer? Agreed. Yeah. Yeah. That's the correct answer.
+
+[59:16] I'm just trying to deal with the sacrophones right now. Yeah. I mean, look. Look, you could build a freaking yurt like over the area where you're gonna do it and have it be reflective on the inside. And it doesn't have to be shiny, shiny reflective, but like somewhat reflective.
+
+[59:31] And then you can at least capture a lot of the heat and keep the wind away and then rotisserie. But I think the problem is if the reindeer is really lean, it's not gonna be the best on a rotisserie unless you ready for it? Or go like old school and and barred that mother. Just barred the hell out of that thing. Like just like buy some back fat and just sew it through the lean meat, like left and right, up and down, but that's still not going to get the connective tissue in there that you would want to have in there to have it actually render out and be good.
+
+[59:57] Elizabeth, you got any thoughts now that you've uh cogitated a little bit on the whole I gotta cook a whole reindeer problem. Man, it's just like a big old venison, so I just think you're gonna need some fat with it. I would like probably just find a meat grinder and make some burgers instead. Yeah, I don't think they're gonna, or you know what? You could go old school, you could grind the meat back up, reform it into a reindeer, and then do that.
+
+[1:00:23] Oh, there you go. Yeah, anyway. Well, it depends on how listen, Arnie. I don't know when the solstice, when's the solstice? December 21st.
+
+[1:00:29] I don't know. I don't know. We'll figure it out. We're gonna we're gonna think of more advice. We'll get back to you guys.
+
+[1:00:33] Uh we got some more questions to come around next time. We have Steve Sando, I believe, on next week, uh talking about beans. Uh Elizabeth Faulkner, Heather, great to have you guys on. Enjoy your product, go look for it on uh reserve bar and happy Thanksgiving, everyone. Cooking issues.
+
+[1:00:48] Thank you. Thanks a lot. Happy Thanksgiving.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City, News Dan Studios. Joined as usual with John Across me. How are you doing? Doing great thanks.
+
+[0:21] Yeah, I got Joe rocking the panels. Joe Hazen, what's up? Hey, how are you? Welcome post uh Thanksgiving. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[0:27] We're gonna have to go through our you know, post-Thanksgiving either successes or traumas in a minute. Uh got uh Nastasia the Hammer Lopez in her new home again, Los Angeles. How you doing? Good, how are you? Doing well, doing well.
+
+[0:43] Also in Los Angeles, I believe he's back is uh Jackie Molecules. How you doing, Jack Insley? Um all right, I'm back, yep. Yeah, and we have again this week from the upper upper left in Vancouver Island, Quinn. How you doing?
+
+[0:57] Hey, I'm all right. Good. And before we get too far into it, special guest on today's show, coming back for the second time, Steve Sando from Rancho Gordo Beans to talk about uh the Bean book, which uh I guess came out when? September? When is it?
+
+[1:14] Uh September 10th. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice. September 10th. Nice, nice.
+
+[1:18] Uh and by the way, for those of you that are keeping track, this is a different that you have you have, well, almost all of your books are on beans. I guess you did one strictly on Posole, which contains there's not even beans now, right? It's hominy. You so in other words, most of your books are bean-oriented, right? At this point, yeah.
+
+[1:37] Yeah, yeah. And uh I have the great American novel in me. It's coming, but not right now. Well, is the would one of the characters be a bean or a bean grower? I mean, they already did the Malagro Beanfield War.
+
+[1:49] Remember the Malagro Beanfield War? Yeah. I don't know if that age well. Book Ed movie. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[1:55] I haven't uh I tried to read the book and I got bored to death, so I don't I don't know. Well, the movie is much, much shorter. It's only two hours or less even. But I can't I can't remember anything about it other than the name. And then when they came out with the tequila name milagro, I just used to call it Beanfield Wars, even though I couldn't remember anything about the show, and we never carried the tequiles.
+
+[2:17] So who knows? Who knows? I I have no idea. That's very funny. Uh anyway, so uh the Bean Book is different from, entirely different from different shape, different length, different text from the original heirloom bean book of 2009 or 2008 or whatever it was.
+
+[2:32] It's a different book. So if you already own the other book, don't think that you can get away with not getting the new book. Correct? No, when we did the new book, I said I want it to be the joy of cooking of beans and really something you keep forever. And heirloom beans, the first book was great, but uh this is definitely a has more gravity task, I think.
+
+[2:55] Wow, you're the Daniel Patterson of your own books. You're like, if you like the old book, you know, you you don't know anything. You gotta get the new book. Anyway, uh so uh anyone who know inside Chef joke. Uh but the um all right, so we'll get into that.
+
+[3:12] But to you know, here's the part of the show because it was just Thanksgiving. So let's say it's talk about uh did anyone do a non-bird-based Thanksgiving in the in the crew here? All birds. I was all bird, all bird, all bird. How do you I saw your bird?
+
+[3:28] I saw a picture of your bird, John. How how'd you do it? Uh spatchcocks, uh salt pepper, a couple of the seasonings, and then just on the grill. Yeah, good. Yeah, came out real well.
+
+[3:38] Okay. Yeah, not trying. Nice little smoke ring. Happy? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[3:41] Yeah, yeah. I didn't cook my bird this year, but I did tea too. I always do, I always do a T2. If I don't have Thanksgiving at my house, you did T2? Yeah, just leftovers.
+
+[3:50] You did your T2 before or T2 after? After. Yeah. I did it. Yeah, I did it on Sunday.
+
+[3:55] I just did, I didn't, I wasn't gonna do it because everyone who was coming over had already been at Thanksgiving. So I had a t I had a 22-pound turkey in my fridge. I bought the day freezer. You know, I got it frozen, put it in my fridge the day before Thanksgiving, Sunday, still frozen. Sunday still frozen.
+
+[4:10] And every year I'm like, I'm never again gonna bone a frozen freaking bird. And then here I was doing it, doing it again. I did my I did my typical bone the whole sucker out. This time though, by the way, Knipex or Knipex, however you pronounce it, the cobra pliers, not the ones I normally use, the plier wrench, they're smooth, but the cobras which have the serrated thing are much better than vice grips for pulling leg tendons because they don't snap shut each time, but they their their grip is immense. So you can so like I just sit there and most of the time my my uh pointer and my thumb are good enough to hold on to the meat section, and then the cobras like uh grip grip onto the tendon, rap.
+
+[4:47] I rip the pin bone, you know, the feather bones, whatever you call them, the tend the you know, calcified tendons out, and that's the real money so that you can eat the you can eat the leg. And then also if you if you butterfly out the legs, right, then they cook to a higher temperature, but basically at the same time as the breast. So it's big money, big money. And I did my standard where I made the big plug of my mom's stuffing, put it in the ANOVA, steamed it until it was cooked through, and then draped the bird over and crisp it up. So money, big money, cash money.
+
+[5:15] Yeah. Yep, now I have leftovers. And so much gravy. People who don't bone their turkeys. What do they how do you make gravy?
+
+[5:23] Yeah. How do you make gravy? Where's your gravy coming from? Are you buying a bunch of necks? What are you doing?
+
+[5:28] You buying gravy in a box? What are you doing? Anyway, uh, what about you guys? Well, what do you what do you do, Steve? It's non-traditional.
+
+[5:37] And I uh made it's called aquacolta. It's a Buscan seafood stew. My friends and I all work in the food service, so everything's leading up to Thanksgiving to the point where we're totally burnt out. It was just the three of us uh healing instead of uh indulging in Thanksgiving. Ended up being very fun, but uh and I love turkey.
+
+[6:00] I have nothing against Thanksgiving food. It just we were so sick of Thanksgiving by the time it actually came. They're they run the fatted cap, which is a circuterie company here in Northern California, and uh everything was about getting people their turkeys. Um we were all just burnt out. Yeah, so for the record, I'm marking Steve Stando Sando down as a Thanksgiving hater and a turkey hater.
+
+[6:20] No, I'm just kidding. I'm necessarily and I love turkey, I really do, but I just I also it there's something about the pressure. It's like when you go to New Orleans, you have to have a good time, and you end up having a good time, but that pressure. I don't care. I'm sort of when I'm when it's obligated to feel something, I tend to be a rebel.
+
+[6:43] Yeah, and you know who doesn't have a good time in New Orleans? Nastasi the hammer Lopez. Only person ever goes there is like, nope. Oh, never going back. True or false, Doz.
+
+[6:55] I went last year with Peter Kennedy. Oh, that's right. And did you have a good time that time? I did. Oh, nice.
+
+[7:01] So I think it's just the company when you were with me. They've made it bad. Yeah. Uh all right. Uh by the way, was that seafood stew?
+
+[7:10] I can't remember the exact uh variant of uh the seafood stew with beans that you have in the book, but was it that one? No, there are no beans. So it was uh rebel, you know, just double rebelin' large with double rebel. Exactly. So since you come from the land of my favorite seafood uh, you know, tomato-based seafood stew, which is the Chipino, like how does it compare to to that?
+
+[7:36] I uh my friends had got some cod that they caught, and I had frozen wild shrimp, so I only had cotton shrimp. Where I think Chipino, you really have to work a little harder, and there's crab and it's a little more interesting with the food. But I really wanted to do what I had on hand and had frozen fish that my friend caught and frozen wild shrimp. So I'm not very inspired, but it was delicious. All right.
+
+[8:03] And uh Stas, how was your uh how was at your parents' house? How how dry was the turkey this year on a scale of of rocks to dust? Where were you? Dust. Every year I'm like, Stas, what are you gonna do?
+
+[8:19] She's like, I'm gonna have the dry, dry turkey. My dad was like, have to take it out at 165. And I was like, Okay, it's been in for three hours. Can I check it? And he's like, It's got two more hours to go.
+
+[8:31] And I was like, Can I just check it? And so I checked and it and it was 220, and I was like, pull it out. Excuse me. Oh Jesus. Oh my god.
+
+[8:46] Oh my god. So like literally, like when you're slicing it, does it just fall into crumbles? Is it like is it like turkey floss at that point? Like what's going on? You just like you wrestle with it.
+
+[8:59] It was so bad. Like it can't buy like the 25-pound turkey, and there's you know, three of us. So it's it's yeah. Can can mayonnaise save it on a sandwich? Could gravy save it on the plate?
+
+[9:15] That's my favorite part is the next day we make this like uh a green onion mayonnaise, and it's great. Oh, green onion mayonnaise. Like you you blend, you chop them fine and mix them in, or you blend them in so that the whole thing gets kind of like a greenish tone. You blend in garlic and green onion and mayonnaise, and then there you go. I like that.
+
+[9:34] Yeah. I like that. You know what uh so we have a little bit of contention in my house. Jen prefers the hot open face sandwich with the gravy, and I'm a cold turkey lettuce tomato mayonnaise pepper guy mustard. Anyway, uh Jack, what about you?
+
+[9:53] What was your uh Thanksgiving like in uh at your brother's house who couldn't care less about Thanksgiving yet invites you to fly across the country to enjoy rotisserie chicken from the supermarket? Wow. I'm just saying, hey, he he cares. It's just you know, he works a lot and have kids kids. Okay, yeah, all right, whatever.
+
+[10:12] However, it's good, you know. It worked out. It worked out. Did you make or bring anything or buy anything or what? No, no, it it's it's yeah, Thanksgiving's gotten a little tricky uh for my family, but um it worked out.
+
+[10:30] So get this on the day of Thanksgiving, I was going to my my brother and sister's house, my brother-in-law and sister's house, but I forgot to get dog food, so I needed dog food, so I had to go to the store. Once door was open in the neighborhood. Literally, everyone who walked into the store felt compelled to say out loud to nobody in particular, just getting a few last minute things. I'm like, you don't need to tell it. We're at a store.
+
+[10:50] I don't care what you're getting. You don't need to say this. You know what I mean? It's like, but everyone was like, you know, I'm not that guy, last minute chopper. I just need a few last minute things.
+
+[10:57] I'm like, all right, my guy. All right. You are that last minute chopper, though. Yeah. I mean, I'm I didn't say anything about it.
+
+[11:02] I know I am. I'm like, I'm getting some dog food. You know what I mean? Have to get the fine fairy dog food, probably get my dog sick. Whatever, it doesn't matter.
+
+[11:08] Anyway. Uh I know Quinn that uh you guys have a different Thanksgiving because Canada, but did you uh do anything? Did you do anything uh to mark the day? Uh no, I was just enjoying the day. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[11:25] All right. All right. All right. So uh nothing else happened besides uh Thanksgiving and the week uh week's festivities for food, right? That we need to get into not much.
+
+[11:34] No? No. No. All right. Uh so I brought with me on the day after Thanksgiving, only John and Joe can taste this.
+
+[11:41] But like I've said on the air many times that I love uh a Virginia peanut. Yeah, legume, but by the way, one of the few legumes that uh even though boiled peanuts is kind of like a bean, you you never really have like a bunch of like soft, you know, you never eat like a big bowl of shelled boiled peanuts. You know what I mean? True. What do you think?
+
+[12:03] Do you think it's because they don't have a skin, Steve? Because they break in half? Why? Why do you think? I had boiled peanuts once, and I thought frog was gonna come out of it.
+
+[12:13] It is the murkiest, most unattractive brew. Yeah, I don't understand them. You have to kind of like wrap your mind around them to love them. You would never associate them with you would never associate them with like that bean life. You know what I mean?
+
+[12:31] And I guess they kind of grow or pleasure. Yeah. They're a ground. I mean, they're not they're not really like all the beans that we eat kind of grow above ground, and these are kind of like earth beans, right? So I guess they are different in that respect.
+
+[12:45] Very, yeah. But anyway, so uh I've said this on the air many times, but Virginia peanuts, even though I've been told by people who that they don't only grow in Virginia, and that's the variety, they're God's peanut. And I went back to the store where I originally bought them, told the guy at the counter the story where the guy where I complained, I asked about the price, and he took it as a complaint and told me not to buy them, which made me buy them. And the guy today was like, Well, I don't know why he told you that. He should have told you to buy them anyway.
+
+[13:09] But I brought some so that other people could also see whether or not they agree that this is God's peanut. Of course, I buy plain salted because you know, like you are, Steve, with your beans, you don't need a lot of like weird flavors on top of your peanuts, do you? You don't need like all kinds, I mean, like not that I dislike a weird flavor on top of a peanut, but if you really want to enjoy the best peanut you can buy, why would you gussy it too much? People tend to gussy things too much. You know what I mean?
+
+[13:33] Yeah. These are good, it's a good peanut, right? Very good peanut. They're afraid of their taste. Yeah.
+
+[13:39] Yeah. Yeah. This is you think that's it. You think people are afraid that like there's gonna be too plain and they can't just rely on the ingredient they've bought, and that's why they gussy things up too much. Well, I think especially if you're a novice.
+
+[13:52] I'm in general, which is weird because I'm usually all like tech out. I'm usually anti-gussy on ingredients, which freaks people out when they come to like work at the bar and they want to put like a billion ingredients into a drink, and I'm like, how about like how about like three? I mean how like three, but you work real hard on it. How about that? Uh all right.
+
+[14:13] So let's talk about this let's talk about this book oh well I have a question it should we do the listener question by the way Patreon people people who listen to this show or heard you on your last appearance will will remember famously that Steve Sando has never once not once entire life been in the business over two decades never once provided a discount on a bag of beans not once because that's so fun I can't remember that but yeah still true yeah yeah because what the hell buy the beans you know what I mean like you'll discount other things but not the beans you know what I mean anyway uh so I don't know what made me think of that oh yeah I know what made you think that so Patreon listeners aren't gonna get a discount on Rancho Gordo beans however uh Quinn did we set up for the book on Kitchen Arts and Letters we sure did yeah so uh Patreon listeners can get a discount on uh the bean book with uh how was uh how do you like working with authors by the way is it uh with uh uh with writers to help you out do you enjoy that or dis disenjoy that me yeah Steve yeah yeah uh I love writers no no we've uh I love that and Kitchen Arts and Letters is one of my favorite places on the planet so I love that you did that as it should as it should be we need to get Matt back on for like a holiday shipping a holiday you know whatever buying things especially while it's still time to ship yeah uh yeah because uh Steve uh the person you wrote this with is uh Julia Newberry you've did several books with her right all right well she's actually the general manager at Rancho Gordo. Really? Her background with with cookbooks before she started with us. And she's uh young mother with two, you know, school-aged kids. So it's uh she's a natural.
+
+[15:57] And I tend to be simpler, like you, and I think, why do you need a recipe book? Just fuck up and shut up. But she's like, no, no, we need recipes. And so we together work we work really well together. Well, the interesting thing about this book, uh, specifically on recipes, is that while you do have a lot of recipes that appear to, you know, come from you know, you and like Rancho Gora life, you also have a whole bunch of recipes from like your buddies and well-known people, or even people that you might not like uh hang out with personally, but have had whose recipes have had an impact on your life or that you know, the you know, use your beans.
+
+[16:33] And so I think that's kind of really interesting that you have a very wide scope of recipes, more than you would get if they come strictly from like one or two people's heads. Does that make sense? Total sense, and I am absolutely adamant that what I'm doing is the best way to do everything for everybody, but when you get these different perspectives, and you just like, oh, maybe I'm not quite so now stuff, but yeah. I have my specific way of doing it, and it's just great having other people come in and say, you know, this isn't always the best way, right? So the best way for me.
+
+[17:06] Bone to pick. I'm gonna pick it right now. I know that you said again last time that you are not a fan in general of uh new England style baked beans, right? It's fine, it's fine, right? But in the your recipe, he knows my silence, yeah.
+
+[17:23] Fine, it's fine. In your recipe for and a little back of the hand on the famous beans that are used for you're like, eh, you're like, you know, whatever, yellow eye, it's fine, it's good, good canvas for a ham hock. Okay, okay. You know, insult taken, gauntlet throne, fine. But uh you just say molasses, and there's no such thing as just molasses.
+
+[17:48] And 99% of the people are gonna buy the wrong molasses. They're gonna buy trash can molasses. I mean, I'm gonna get in trouble for calling tracking. Yeah, yeah. I accept your criticism.
+
+[18:01] And it's I I should delve deeper into it, but every time I have, it's like I don't get it. This is so much work for a dish that doesn't pay off. Fair. I don't dislike it, but it's like, huh, that seems like you have these beautiful fresh beans, and then you put molasses or syrup or something in it that's gonna stop them from cooking because you want to cook it for a really long time. And I think the whole point is you cook it while you're out, chopping down maple trees or something.
+
+[18:30] I don't know why you do it. Well, they cook them for like eight hours. Like, but I usually they they're usually par cooked, right? So you parcook them, yeah, and then I add dry, I add dry mustard powder because I don't want to add any acid. And then I add the sugars, I like the molasses early, and then when they are, you know, just about done, then I'll add a little acid to arrest them and then throw them in a low in a low oven forever, yeah, for like four or more hours or something like this, four or five hours.
+
+[18:58] You can do it too long, like 12 hours, too much. Too much. But hey, I'm old, I don't have all that extra time anymore. You know, like there's other dishes. Yeah, bake baked beans for me, are uh I get up in the morning and before I you know take the dogs out, I start it, and then like it's done at dinner time.
+
+[19:15] You know what I mean? Like I just sits around in my pot. By the way, I just bought, I know that you're a uh a low-fired uh lachamba pot fan, and I had never owned one, got one on the eBay, enjoy it. I enjoy it. It's really fun.
+
+[19:30] And then unfortunately, it's a gateway drug. There's then you every time you travel now, you're gonna discover clay pots from other countries. And every major cuisine knows you cook beans in clay pots. The French, the Italians, the Mexicans in the Middle East. It's it's really fun.
+
+[19:48] It's just it's kind of a drag bringing it back on a plane. Yeah, I I have space for the one. I have my I have my New England bean pot, and then I have my lachamba, and then like I don't have any more room for anything, or I'll get in trouble. You know what I mean? Like I got a two-quart, which is good for one pound, if they're par cooked, and then I got you know, my lachamba is the 375 bean pot.
+
+[20:11] Anyway, whatever. But like, but what's interesting to me, and you mentioned it in the book, is that it's very counterintuitive that like uh high-fired ceramics like stoneware, ironware are much tougher in terms of like taking abuse, but also less tough when it comes to like uh putting on a flame. So you want the low-fired, quote unquote, you know, more fragile item goes on the flame, whereas the stronger one will break. It's it's weird, right? It is weird, and it's you can imagine breaking the ceramic, and if it's white, you shouldn't even really be cooking with it necessarily, because it's just so high fired that it won't take the heat.
+
+[20:49] Yeah, yeah, which is strange. It's odd anyway. But the the lachambas, the lachambas uh are nice. Okay, here is a question. Oh, by the way, I think I asked you this last time.
+
+[20:58] I don't remember what you said, but I'm gonna ask you again. Liver mess with like, and again, I know you're not an East Coast bean guy, but you ever mess with like Marfax? I really think Marfax is an interesting bean. It's one of those main beans that has a weird texture. It's very firm bean, even when it's cooked.
+
+[21:16] Hmm. I've heard of it, but no. There, you know, we're we do, I think right now, 35 varieties. So there are just hundreds more that we could be pursuing. And I'm not really a business person or even an ag person or even a chef.
+
+[21:30] So I don't know why I'm on the show, but I do think if it doesn't interest me, I've had a hard time with it. So I definitely will try those. But I've had people say, Oh, you need to try this bean. And if I don't have a personal connection, it's really hard for me to stomach. And I love our beans.
+
+[21:45] They're like my children. So that's easier. But I will look in for more. Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying you're gonna texture. I'm not saying you're gonna love it.
+
+[21:52] I'm just saying it's uh like a hyper regional bean that like doesn't leave its kind of area. You know what I mean? Like uh love that yeah. Speaking of uh beans, so I buy your beans because uh I like to buy I still like to buy things in person, food, especially, you know what I mean? So I get your beans at Essex Formaggio uh on Essex Street, strangely in uh lower Manhattan.
+
+[22:15] And uh I asked them because going in in the book, you mentioned again and you'd mentioned them before the eye of the goat beans, the ojo de cabra as being like you know, kind of like the Jesus bean broth. It's like the you know, so good, blah, blah, blah. And then I was like, yo, I've never seen you carry these things. And he's like, yo, we haven't carried them in years. I even look at his catalog, and we can never get them.
+
+[22:37] So are they gonna exist again? Or these only go to like, you know, trusted friends and relatives out there on the on your coast. Yes, they we will have them again. We in fact had probably three bad years of crop failure, but we finally realized it's probably our seed stock. So we pulled some and we're creating new seed stock from that to do well, but we also in the meantime found some in Italy.
+
+[23:01] Um not called that. Uh but like this is eye of the goat. This is great. So we actually grew them, but they're slightly different. They're just as delicious, but they are slightly different.
+
+[23:12] So we're marketing this as Occhio della Capra. So eye of the goat, but in Italian. Oh, I see. And those are actually on the website right now. We don't have enough to offer wholesale yet.
+
+[23:22] We're working on it. All right. So I can't get them in Essex Four Maggio yet, but but look out someday. No, someday I'll be able to get them. All right.
+
+[23:29] Well, someday. And probably the true eye of the goat, not this Italian variant. But for now on the website, we have the Italian. Eye of the Goat would not have been as good a song for Rocky III. Do you agree?
+
+[23:42] Not have been as good. No, I think I'd finally go see the movie. Yeah. I uh you never went to see that movie. You never went to see that movie?
+
+[23:49] I don't want to I've been in my own little Ethel Merman bubble. I love Ethel Merman unironically. I mean listen, no, I'm not you don't know me that well, but Nastasia can attest it every once in a while. I'll break out into there's no business like show business doing the full Ethel Merman. True or false, does Yeah.
+
+[24:07] I mean, there was a time in like two thousand eight or nine where we were trying to set you up for um Broadway casting stuff. Yeah, to be like, you know, an Ethel Merman impersonator. But it's like, I mean, her voice is iconic, you know what I mean? Like she defines the belt, you know what I'm saying? So yeah, look at that.
+
+[24:24] Yeah, no. Oh my god, everything's coming up, roses. Oh my god. Come on, do it. No, I'm not gonna do it.
+
+[24:29] Not gonna do it. Come on. No, old and out of shape. Not gonna do it. Not gonna do it.
+
+[24:34] Anyway, uh, we all know that she's great. Although you know what's funny? Like, like I guarantee you that there is a bunch of people in their 20s who are like, Well, who's Ethel Merman? And I'm like, and and they're like, but that's before my time. It's like, but I say this all the time.
+
+[24:45] We knew so many people who were from before our time. Ethel Merman was before our time. You know what I mean? We still know who she was. Away before.
+
+[24:52] The 30s started. Um, If they ran Ranch Agord is the same thing, or I'll quote some Joan Crawford or Betty Davis line just because I like to do that. And they're like, who's that? Oh my or Valley of the Dolls, even. Oh, yeah.
+
+[25:06] Like, I can do a couple of the scenes in that on the kids today. Wasn't that written by Ebert? Didn't Ebert write that? He wrote, I can't believe I know that he wrote Beyond the Valley of the Dolls, the Myers. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[25:20] Nice. Yeah. Nice. Uh all right, back to beans. Back to beans.
+
+[25:25] Oh, by the way, before we get back to the question, uh, so one thing that they did have at the and I encourage people to buy it now. Every year I wait till it's too late, not this year. If you're so in my family, we don't do lentils at New Year's. We do, do you do lentils, Joe? I look from the look in your face that you look like a lentils family.
+
+[25:40] You do it with cotaquino or no cotaquino? Just lentils. All right, lentils for money. Got it. We are black-eyed peas in my family.
+
+[25:48] Where do you do the black-eyed peas? What about what about you, John? Will you eat lentils? Lentils, stars, Jack. What about you?
+
+[25:53] You being on being on New Year's cruise? Oh, yeah, I mean, yeah, if if possible. And what do you which which you black eye? You're a black eye guy? Yeah.
+
+[26:02] Yeah. Nice. Quinn, I know you have a theory on this one. Do you gotta go lentil? I bet you go lentil.
+
+[26:08] Yeah, yeah. My dad, my dad heard that side of the family that definitely does lentil. Have you do you do the cotaquino or no? Uh wait, is that the sausage? Yeah.
+
+[26:21] That you cook in with the lentils. Okay. Get your dad. I don't think we get a specific. We've got to go specifically.
+
+[26:28] Come on, man. You're Mr. Specific. How about this? What about this year?
+
+[26:29] Try. Have you ever done Zamponi? Describe it. Okay, so here's what you do. You have to get you have to get from a real butcher.
+
+[26:43] You can't just go to a store. You get from a real butcher, a pig's trotter, like whole, like all the way up to like the elbow joint, right? And then you keep the skin kind of together and you remove all of the meat out of it, right? The bones and everything, and then you stuff it with cotechino mix, and then you sew it shut. You're supposed to age it for a little while, right?
+
+[27:03] And then you boil it and then you serve that with the lentils. Zampone. It's good. Not Zamboni, not Zamboni, Zampone. Anyway, so like uh, but that's like classic.
+
+[27:15] I've only done it a couple of times. I had an Italian chef who uh we used to, he came over and did a residency at the French Culinary Institute, and man, he taught me how to sew one up. It was fantastic. Anyway, black-eyed peas. So, what I would recommend to anyone listening who is a black-eyed pea person, go get your rancho gordo lucky 2025 black uh black-eyed peas now, because I'm assuming they're gonna sell out.
+
+[27:37] Even like garbage can I shouldn't say even like commodity black-eyed peas sell out at my local supermarket like before New Year's. You know what I'm saying? And by the way, a commodity black-eyed pea is still good. Can I just say that? A commodity black eyed is still good.
+
+[27:53] Still very good. They're delicious, especially once I do what I'm gonna do to them. Yep. Know what I do for New Year's Eve? What do you do?
+
+[28:00] I invite Peter Kim out to LA and he stays in Jack's house and makes a mess. I like that. So he like grinds black-eyed peas into into Jack's couch. Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, didn't he didn't he one year didn't he one year like buy you some cleaning supplies so that you could clean up the mess he made and leave them there?
+
+[28:25] That didn't happen to be. Chateau Diane. Oh my god, Chateau Diane. I can't even believe they sell that stuff in California because you can buy real wine in a liquor store there. You know what I mean?
+
+[28:46] Yeah, I mean in a grocery store. Yeah. There's a wine anywhere. There's a whole, you know, for those who live in New York, there's a whole subset of don't live in New York. In New York, there's you you can't buy real wine.
+
+[28:59] You can buy beer here in a grocery store, but you can't buy wine or liquor. And so there's a whole set of like fake wine that's you know, wine plus water and sugar, whatever it is. And the one that I always see at the checkout is Chateau Diane. You know what I mean? It's a step down from Boone's wine, if you uh remember Boone's wine.
+
+[29:20] Uh anyways. Nice. Um anyway, are you gonna sell out of them black-eyed peas? Probably, right? Yeah, for sure.
+
+[29:29] Yeah. And uh some of you the screws taking this too casually. I think a a nation is counting on you to eat black-eyed peas on January 1st. I think we do. Some of you haven't been doing your part, is all I can say.
+
+[29:44] So they're delicious. And I think if you had black-eyed peas, it's for good luck, but then you have collarine range or literally money, which isn't as altruistic, but they're both important, I think. Yeah, yeah. Uh the so black-eyed peas are uh okay, so you but we'll go through this. Like you what's there's the different genuses of beans, right?
+
+[30:03] So like there's the like uh you know, our side of the world, beans, way you know, I hate to say what what's the correct way to say new world nowadays? Western hemisphere beans? Indigenous to the Americas. All right, right. Indigenous to the Americans.
+
+[30:15] Right, the whole the whole phaseolis Megilla, right? And then you got your your favas, you got your uh you got your your vinas, which are like black-eyed peas, lentils, mung, red beans, all that, and then you got your your chickpeas over there on the uh on the kind of African, Asian European side. But your heart is in the American beans, correct? Yes, I would say so. But I have a weird love of uh garbanzos, chickpeas, and then I've just discovered lentils that are there's if I can rant a bit.
+
+[30:53] There's this area in Germany that had really crummy soil, so all they could grow were lentils, and they had an indigenous lentil that was doing really well. Indigenous, I mean an adapted lentil. And then once the soil got better, they cut the lentil production, and they these lentils were lost. Well, now a group is growing them again, and they're the most delicious lentils. We're gonna look into importing them because it's saving this tradition that really was about to die and just say probably with home uh gardeners.
+
+[31:23] What's the name of the lentil? Now they're doing this production. It's German, so I don't know. Lentilhagen, I don't know. Sorry, that's so rude.
+
+[31:32] I don't know. And so what's the what's the difference between this lentil and a regular lentils are nice in that they cook so quickly. You know what I mean? It's refreshing if we're cooking beans. Yeah.
+
+[31:42] It's like, oh, I can just do this without even thinking about it. They're really tiny, so they probably are closer to wild lentils, and they're uh brown, black, and yellow, and they're just beautiful earthy mix. Oh, they come and they come really fun. In a mixed color? They come in a mixed color.
+
+[31:57] Yeah, naturally, yeah. Who knew? Who knew the German colours? Exactly. And when I first started, you know, we do most of our production in California, quite proudly, but we do do some in Mexico.
+
+[32:14] And when I was meeting with my friends who now become best friends, I think, are there any heirloom beans around here? Oh no, no, no, there's they're all gone. And it was the mother who said, No, there's one in the village, and now they're experts. So sometimes the stuff is right under our nose and we take it for granted and don't even know. But just like with clay pot cooking, I think they're being growing traditions almost everywhere because they're easy to grow.
+
+[32:35] You know, the goal was cheap protein for poor people, but the reality is they're delicious and healthy and green. So everybody wins. So a couple of decades ago when you were first getting the heirloom stuff, how important were like the William Moyce weavers of the world and that kind of generation of folks with their seed saving. Well for me, it was very romantic. And even though I had no ag background, I just started growing.
+
+[33:00] And uh they were the ones who saved these seeds. It wasn't commercial companies because they as I go on about how much I love my heirloomes, there's a place for cheap commodity beans. It's uh I don't I don't regrudge them that, but there's also room at the table for something kind of more high end. So when I started growing these and eating them, and it's because of these home gardeners and those guys who saved them. The first time I ate them, it's like, well, these are like pictures, but there's something else going on here.
+
+[33:29] And it for me it was very exciting. So home gardening is what saved a lot of this. And seed savers was really where I was starting to get most of my stuff. And there's a company called Native Seeds Search in uh Tucson also that I did. But really savers that for home growers, how's Baker's Creek?
+
+[33:49] Do you sell, by the way, do you sell seed stock or not? Well, beans are seeds, so you can actually take any of our beans from any of them. We don't do anything to prohibit it. So they're actually a real cheap way of getting beans. Um and Baker's Creek's great.
+
+[34:05] I buy stuff from them. If they have something we don't have, I have a plot here where I'm growing things mostly from beans that I've bought in travels. Uh and you can legally bring beans into the country when you're traveling. You can you should declare them because if they find them, they don't like that, but not corn, but beans are safe. So uh yeah, I I buy them.
+
+[34:27] Now, commercially versus at home, like how many, like how big of a plot do I need to plant to get a pound of beans? Like how big how big is the chunk of dirt that a pound of beans comes out of. Um, well, this is why I'm not nervous about people putting me out of business. Because it's you were you need a lot, and you'll get one pot of beans at the end of the season. So that's kind of like, huh, that's a lot of work.
+
+[34:52] So, but it's really fun to do, and beans are easy to grow. And if you have kids, there is nothing like putting them in the ground and watering them. And in less than a week, usually you see the starch come up. And kids are just enchanted with that, and it gets them uh they're more likely to eat them if they've grown them. And you can eat them at different stages.
+
+[35:11] So there's a flower that comes, and you can actually eat the flower. There's a little minuscule bean. But once it's big enough, you can eat it as a green bean. And although it is a string beans, you have to destring it. And then you can uh let it go further into a shelling bean, and that's when it's still uh moist.
+
+[35:29] But that for me that's all insan to suck a little bit. Well, hold on. Even even with limas, limas is a shelling bean. Oh my god, come on. Limas as a shelling bean?
+
+[35:40] Yeah, no, no, no. I I'm being silly, they're all delicious jelly beans. Yeah, but I think they develop better flavor once they've been dried. I mean, not everyone will agree with me, but I grew up with frozen lima beans in that can't that medley of horrible vegetables that were frozen. And I thought I hated lima beans my whole life, and then I had real ones.
+
+[36:01] Uh for me, they were dried and recooked. It's like, oh wait, I don't hate lima beans. But I was very invested in hating lima beans. You know, I have no southern. I think every everybody is succotash is straight delicious.
+
+[36:14] If the limas are good and the corn is good, I mean, it doesn't get much better than such ash. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, speaking of corn, you have a corn stalk.
+
+[36:23] How does that taste? So what he does, he just cuts the corn off, saves the kernels for something else, perhaps succotash, perhaps. And then uh and then just boils the cobs. Yeah. I've never done that.
+
+[36:34] Good move. It's good, tastes good. Yeah. Get a lot of flavor out of it. Yeah.
+
+[36:37] Okay. Is it because of this kernel that's left on the crab? I mean say it again. Well, this usually when you're cut, there's sort of it's sort of milky. So there still is stuff left on that cob.
+
+[36:48] And I know in Mexico, they actually take the silk and make stock out of that and give it to mothers who are nursing. And somehow that is a good thing. Yeah. Since I'm past that point in my life, how does it taste? Well, it tastes like corn.
+
+[37:06] So it's definitely not for every dish, but it's delicious. Yeah. Uh wait, what are we talking about? Oh, sorry. So if I plant, I I don't because I don't have any outdoor space, but if I did 10 by 10 feet of beans, I get one pot.
+
+[37:18] You think that's like that's like a pound? You might get two or three, yeah. Yeah, it's rough. But you know, it's rough, yeah. But it's why I don't I encourage people to do it because I know it's a harm in the log.
+
+[37:31] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I planted. Yeah. Um, have you experimented? Are there any of your beans that are particularly good just sprouted, like uh bean spruits?
+
+[37:45] Or do they sort of taste similar? Uh yeah, I have had people who want to sprout our beans, and I don't want to discourage anybody, but two on one, they all come back and say, they're not that much different. So I would use probably good quality new new crop commodity beans if you were gonna do any quantity. But there's a woman just curious a couple in Oakland, we started something called shared cultures, and they're actually making miso out of our beans, and that does seem to make a difference. So that's kind of exciting.
+
+[38:20] That's some expensive miso right there. I mean I think time is more expensive than making leaf though. I mean, commodity soy commodity soy is cheap. Cheap. Uh, what's the recipe you have in the book that's not miso related, but reminded me because I love barley miso, but it's oh, it's your it's the bean burgers have a bunch of cooked barley in it.
+
+[38:42] What's the function of the cooked barley in the bean burger? Just another binder. Yeah, I think, and it's healthy and it's easy enough to get. I so that's from a local pub here in Napa called Norman Rose. And I've had many, many bean burgers, and people said, Oh, I hope you have a great bean burger recipe.
+
+[39:02] But I'm much like celebrating traditional Thanksgiving or seeing Rocky 3 or whatever the which we're like, eh. I don't I the obsession with the burger shape is a little beyond me. And these are perfectly delicious. I've had them there and we cook them, but I'm not obsessed with I don't understand why we need things shaped like burgers. Have you been to Superiority Burger in uh Manhattan?
+
+[39:26] No, but they buy a lot from us. They're a great. And we uh during COVID, when they were in trouble, we helped with their fundraising because uh I I just love what they're doing. Well is it good? Very good.
+
+[39:38] If you ever come out, you should go to Superiority Burger. They do they do a good job. So for sure. Yeah. Oh yeah.
+
+[39:44] Uh offhand comment you made in the book that I don't understand. You like air circulating in in in your pots when you're cooking beans. What do you think the function of that is? I'm a firm believer in more water than you think, which is why I think the the pressure cooker, because it doesn't reduce. I think beans need some reduction in in uh liquid as they're being cooked, but like why do you think you need air at the top?
+
+[40:02] That's kind of struck me as I didn't understand. Well, because you're more you're more science based, and I'm an emotional truck. I don't know. I just noticed they need there's something about the air that's really nice. And but I always cook my beans either a jar or at some point without the lid.
+
+[40:19] Because I think you're right, the reduction is more important than anything. I've seen people fill the pot up to the brim with liquid and beans, and I just it makes me nervous because the beans could boil over easily if you weren't paying attention. And I just it should be in my head, based not on science, three-quarters product, beans and water, and then at least a quarter for the air. But that's not based on anything. Yeah, I mean, I always give myself some room on the initial boil, but I'm usually transferring to a bean, I'm usually potting and then into a bean pot.
+
+[40:54] Anyway, whatever. Just question the other thing is like it is true you say don't worry about adding. I I totally agree with this. Like it doesn't matter whether the water is hot that you add or not, it's just gonna take a little longer to cook. That's for sure true.
+
+[41:06] Uh although, you know, the one thing that you're gonna say is is like you do add your salt after they're mostly cooked, because you're kind of worried about it. I I always add my salt straight at the beginning. A pound of beans takes between 10 and 12 grams of salt, depending on all the other adjuncts, like how much onions and other crap you add to it. So you can safely add 10 grams of salt to to a pound of beans and not worry at all. No matter how dry it goes, you're gonna have to add a little more salt by the end.
+
+[41:33] You know what I mean? So like I always just add 10 grams of salt right at the beginning in the soaking water. Another thing, he's like uh I love how in the book you like you like don't want to get into it. You're like throw away the soaking water, keep the soaking water, whatever. People have different opinions on the but I will say we measured it once.
+
+[41:53] We uh did a a project at at Harvard and we measured it, and very little of the FODMAP Farty principles end up in the soaking water. So might as well, might as well use it. You know what I mean? Also, very little's leached out. So if you throw it away, it's also not that big a deal.
+
+[42:09] You know what I mean? Yeah. Harold McGee in on food and cooking talks about that. And he's like, it's so minimal that uh you think you're doing something. But I think again, some people really want to pretend that they're helping.
+
+[42:23] Yeah. They think, okay, I'll change the water and I'm cooking with it. So but I people are very adamant. And I think part of it is a lot of home cooks think, well, I can't cook beans. They're really hard, and I can just buy the can, that's fine.
+
+[42:37] And to they finally do it and they have success, it's that this is the way it has to be done. And so you'll find being people are very adamant that their way is a way to do it. But a lot of roads think it's the roam. So you just smile and say, oh, good for you. That's good.
+
+[42:53] I'm happy that work. And but they're very adamant. But martini drinkers are the same way. Like how you make it martini. Yes, yes, they are.
+
+[43:03] Yes, they are. Uh the um, well, you know, I I did a bunch of side-by-sides, and uh it's canned beans are an interesting problem, right? Because they need to get almost all of their absorption in before they go in the can because they need to fill the can. The can needs to be full when it's done, right? So I forget I used to know exactly what the process is, but you if you side by side beans from a can versus beans that you cook fresh, even if you just use salt and water, no aromatics, no nothing, the beans that you cook fresh are so much better.
+
+[43:35] Like, you know what I mean? Like just like straight up. Yeah. And a r and a rinsed can be. Yeah.
+
+[43:41] Yeah. Yeah, but you have all that free soup when you make them yourself, too, whereas with the can you need to rinse them. Yeah, I'm gonna start. I'm gonna start maybe cooking a little wetter. Because I usually cook it wet and then I reduce it down to like almost like very thick syrupy stuff.
+
+[43:55] But you seem to be a big fan of leaving the broth relatively thin, draining it and using it for another application. Maybe I'll try that. And rice, you've never made better rice, especially when you use bean broth and water. So bean broth itself is a little too much, but you cut it in half. And it's it's I have lots of it in my freezer that I've saved because and use it.
+
+[44:17] Well, I'm gonna try it. But we have a caller calling in. Caller, you're on the air. Hey, what's up, guys? It's Josh from Norfolk.
+
+[44:25] Hey, how you doing? Doing well. Um, so first off, I just want to say, Steve, the Scarlet Runner is a life-changing bean. So thank you for bringing that into my life. Uh thank you.
+
+[44:39] And then on the topic of you know, soaking water and stuff like this. Uh I appreciate that it doesn't matter either way. But should beans be rinsed just from like a food safety perspective, like you would do with rice. Oh gosh, yes. And they should actually, even though ours are triple cleaned, and it's pretty rare you'd find any debris.
+
+[45:00] Most of the cleaning happens in the field. That's why you get little pebbles or dirt clots. So you definitely should rinse them and check through them, even if they're ours or someone you trust. It's uh there's nothing worse than getting a dirt clot. It's pretty rare, but it's not good.
+
+[45:16] But you do want to rinse them. And also, we've had uh iliacs, you know, people who can't have um any gluten, you know, really thrilled that they can buy beans because you rinse them. So even if they were stored in wheat, if you you have to rinse them well enough that you would not have any of the left left over stuff. But yes, no, definitely do rinse them, is what I would say. Okay, awesome.
+
+[45:40] I agree. I agree. And by the way, right a dirt cloud, correct me if I'm wrong, Steve, but it's gonna be about the size of a bean because it means it's gone through the classifier. Yes. Yeah.
+
+[45:44] Yes. No, for sure. And I one thing I was gonna say about the Scarlet Runners, what's so cool is we know that those are from Oaxaca. They were one of the Mexico, and they were one of the first cultivated plants. So it's Spasiolus vicinias, and it was cultivated.
+
+[46:05] And when the Spanish came, they were sort of shocked at how they were growing this bean. And the Mesoamericans were really advanced as far as uh agriculture. So it's kind of a it's kind of a fun one. And I think it's a gateway for people who love meat, it's sort of beefy, I think. So it's if you're trying to cut back, I think this garlot runners, the ayacote, any of those runner beans are great um meat substitutes.
+
+[46:31] But I'm not saying whether you should or not, that's up to you. I don't want to get preciated by meat. Is there any general difference between runner beans and com and common beans on in terms of like uh skin thickness or flavor or use or or no? Is it just variety by variety? Oh no, they're well, they're very different.
+
+[46:50] They tend to be bigger. They uh and when you're growing them, pole bean, you know, has tendrils that wrap around naturally. The runner beans need a little help if you want to stake them, although they do have long runner shoots, but they tend to be bigger, they tend to have thicker skins, and they are ready at one point, and they're really nice, and they're sort of like a rusted potato, but then you push them just a little further and suddenly they taste like dairy. They're amazing. And they all tend to have pretty good broths.
+
+[47:22] I can't think of a thinner skinned runner bean off the top of my head, but it it's really a great variety. But they do need a little cooking. And I don't generally soak, but if it was Sunday morning and I knew I wanted beans, as soon as I wake up and make coffee, I probably would put the beans on the soap and let them soak for an hour or two before I was going just to be sure. Right, because the b the big, big big ones with the thicker skins, sometimes like cooking them without soaking them, the skins just blast off even before they get al dante, right? Like they just like it's weird, like they differentially inflate, and then I don't know, they freak me out.
+
+[47:55] And then you see these beautiful beans like all busted open, makes me sad. Looks for you have a fabulous broth now. It's probably even richer. Uh all right, we have a question and wait, Josh, you got more. Is Josh still on the phone?
+
+[48:16] No? All right. All right, well, all right. So WTS has a question. I'm currently reading through the bean book.
+
+[48:22] One of the early sections that caught my attention is titled Bean Cooking Strategies, page 28. It suggests cooking a bot uh cooking a pot of beans on a Sunday and then continually adapting and incorporating beans into different dishes throughout the week. As someone who is often cooking for one person, this approach to beans is really attractive. I'm curious uh if you, Steve, have any additional bean strategies to share. Any tips for maximum variety, or is there a type of bean that really shines with this cook it once, use it several times approach?
+
+[48:53] Well, I live alone most of the time, but I host a lot, but I tend to do half a pound. And even though it takes a long time, a half a pound is about the route amount right amount. Um, no, I think you could do this with any bean, and you know, sometimes I'll do uh garbanzas. I wouldn't bother with lentils or peas because they cook so fast. But you just to me, the best recipe of all is a bowl of freshly made beans with some chopped white onion or red onion, um, squeeze a lime, and then a drizzle of your best olive oil and but off, that's it.
+
+[49:27] So that's what you do the first night. But then the next day you're working and you're kind of upset and harried, and you just like, oh, I'm just gonna make a salad, and you throw some bean in there. Then the next day you have some beans and you think, oh, look, pasta fiddle, we're gonna do that this week. Those tend to be better with cranberry or borlone beans, but not necessarily. You could definitely be creative.
+
+[49:47] And then you probably are close to being done, but if not, you make a soup. And then right when you have that little bit at the end, it's like, ah, I can't do this anymore. I'm sick of this bean, puree it. I'd love to put anchovies, tapers, and olive oil and puree it and make a dip. And then you could start it with a completely different bean.
+
+[50:03] So I tend to do white beans one week and then dark beans the next, and or chickpeas after that. So it's very easy to do. And then in the back of the book, we have I think we call them toppings. I'm not really sure. But if you make romesco sauce or pesto or something else, you just have a bowl of beans and put a pop of the stuff in it.
+
+[50:25] It's like, oh, that's great. I'll have bread in a salad, and then I'm done. So it's sort of it's a strategy of what to do with a pot for sure. And you can think about it. And also based for shopping, it's like, okay, I'm gonna make cranberry beans this week, so I have to make sure I have pasta, you know, beans and greens, that's a great thing.
+
+[50:42] Maybe I'll uh pick up some chard at the store. So it's instead of I think what was driving me crazy is I actually bought a book on high food, which was really well done. It's really delicious. And I'm looking through the ingredients, it's like I'm never gonna do this. Or I'm gonna buy all this stuff, just one dish, and then um I'm gonna sit in my pantry until I need to throw it out.
+
+[51:03] Whereas I think with what you have and thinking about the week ahead, and there's nothing wrong with plant, but I'm not critical of that, especially if but maybe you need to make I guess my point is you don't to buy all these ingredients to make pasta fits only once doesn't make any sense. You're gonna be exhausted and you'll never do it. Whereas if you have this pot, it's just handy ingredients sitting in your refrigerator. You keep reinventing the pot. So that's that's my strategy.
+
+[51:28] And you can do it with any bean. Yeah. Oh, by the way, speaking of things, things to do, yeah. Things to do with leftover beans, refried question. Because you do you do low and slow, you like relatively low and slow, right?
+
+[51:42] Whereas like I usually do the exact opposite. Like I'm cranking my pan, I use like black iron, I'm cranking it like 375. I'm putting this stuff in and letting it kind of like caramelize onto the, you know, like kind of stick and kind of get crispy on the bottom and then scraping the hell out of it and keep doing that until I take it out, doing it in batches, but like very fast. Like I've never tried it low and slow. Have you ever done it fast?
+
+[52:08] Like, what do you think the difference is? Because I love that weird kind of char I get from the high heat on the pan. But like, I don't know. I'm gonna maybe I'll try it the slow, low and slow way. No, I would try that.
+
+[52:20] I'm not, you know, I'm an infidel when it comes to refried beans. So I also, if it's Thursday night and I'm tired, I will get an immersion blender and just blend them. And it's not as good as refried beans, but to red beans are incredible. And I will find myself, you know, have a tortilla and just dipping it in that and calling that dinner sometimes. And it's absolutely delicious.
+
+[52:43] And the best really is when you have beautiful lard from the Mexican butcher and onions that you've at least clarified so they're soft, and then you match them so that they kind of lit they really blend in with the beans as they're dissolving. But no, I would try everything. Um Yeah, I usually I usually have to use olive wool because I'm almost always when I'm doing like them, have a bunch of vegetarians. I don't want them to not be able to have the refried beans. It's absolutely delicious.
+
+[53:13] It's very different and it's a little less additional, but it's no less delicious, is what I would say. Yeah, yeah. And I, you know, also like strangely, I make the beans for refried beans. So I cook chilies and onions in with the beans. Makes mashing quite easy for me.
+
+[53:30] Anyway, uh on your bean lovers pantry, talk to me about Mixteca salt. So in Puebla, which is really near the Oaxacan border, they have these mines that have been there, salt mines, and it is a land salt, and it actually some recipes you'll see is usually for making hummus that you should put baking soda in with the cooking, which really tastes like soap. And if you have relatively fresh garmentos or chickpeas, I don't see any need to do that, but you can. Um, but it does actually soften the beans, which you know, we've always had the myth that salts will harden the beans, but the mistake salt will definitely soften them. It's not a good finishing salt, but it's a good cooking salt.
+
+[54:15] And by the way, when you add baking soda, even marginal amounts, I can smell it when the beans are cooking, and I don't I don't like it. I don't like that smell. And I always add acid to neutralize it after they're done when I have to do that. Yeah, I'm with you. And I think if you bought your beans and they've been stored in the desert for five years, and then you were now to cook them, yeah.
+
+[54:39] Maybe that's a valid thing to do. But with ours, we grow them in California. There's no need to that, which is also kind of something interesting. I'm sorry if I'm rattling. But I went to Italy where they grow the Serana bean, which is what we sell as Marcella from their seed, and the terroid issue is really different.
+
+[54:59] So they actually have a different flavor. So you should buy both. But they dry the hell out of the beans because they don't want to deal with mold over the winter months, and they have summer rains and they they just have more of a mold issue, which we don't have. If anything, we have a bug issue here. So it was just so funny watching them like, oh my God, the beans are dry.
+
+[55:21] Take them out. Like, no, no, we're gonna keep going. And that's why I think in some cultures they say you have to soak. Because with us, we get I think it's 12% that we let them dry to, and then then they're done. Right.
+
+[55:33] Well, there's a sweet spot. I I've read I've read both that making it really, really, really dry is okay. You know, medium, like the you don't want high humidity, obviously, or high heat, right? That's gonna get an overly hard bean, but you hear conflicting things about extra low, right? Hmm.
+
+[55:53] Well, yes, and also I would think if there was too much moisture, they would be more vulnerable to weevils. But it is an agricultural product, so that does happen. I hate beevils. Um, they're not oh my god. I love them, as you can imagine.
+
+[56:09] They're really fun. Oh my god, not a problem. Do you know green granary weevils, granary weevils, as opposed to rice weevils? Rice weevils have wings, they can fly. So if you have a weevil in your house that's flying, most likely rice weasel.
+
+[56:25] If you a weevil, if you have a weevil that's not flying, they're also different colors. But if you have one that's not flying, granary weevil. Only known agricultural pest that has no wild, there is no wild in the wild granary weevil. It was it co-developed with us. It is like a bane for us.
+
+[56:47] Just for us. Thanks. Thanks, weevils. God, I hate them. Uh and they're real, they they they uh they do I guess I have had them go when I was a kid.
+
+[56:58] Uh we did you ever do those when you were a kid, do the bean pictures where like you go to school and the art and the art teacher hands you all these different colored beans and some and some Elmers, and then you make pictures on cardboard with beans? Yeah. I did the ones. Yeah, yeah. I did a parrot.
+
+[57:13] Still remember it. Did a parrot. I brought it home, and my mom framed it, and then like, you know, like six, eight months later, it was just like dust and weevils. Down at the bottom of the frame behind the glass, dust and weevils. Awesome.
+
+[57:28] Uh all right, uh, another thing I never tried. How's this uh banana vinegar that you guys sell? Oh, it's wonderful. Uh it's from Vera Cruz, the state. And when the price of bananas gets too low or plaintained gets too low, they just let them rot and make uh this incredible vinegar out of but it.
+
+[57:48] It's definitely a banana plaintained flavor, but it's not sweet or toy. And it when I cook tomatoes in the summer, sometimes for dinner, I just want some lot of tomatoes it's a very judicious sprinkle of this stuff and then uh molden salt and it's like that's fabulous to this cider beans of course I do love the malden salt I can't seem to find it here but like one of the wackier recipes in here I don't know why it struck me as wacky is beans in a gorgonzola sauce it struck me as wacky how's that recipe well I was desperate and I was gonna make gnocchi and uh I got these beans reads with and I do it all the time and the Christmas limas are also known as chestnut limas and have a real chestnut texture so it's not traditional beanie texture so it I I felt it worked too well. Yeah but I was like thinking about it because you were like uh I want gnocchi but instead beans I'm like okay okay but I do get it with those kind of like bigger bigger beans but I was like all right all right all right all right fair enough no and really for recipe development I think of what you would do potatoes like this about big white beans. I mean I I love taking traditional recipes and uh whipping them I think I did a chicken tahine but I use garbanzas with no chicken and I thought this would be cute. It's one of my favorite things on the planet.
+
+[59:11] Um especially if you love Moroccan flavors. Oh yeah I'm I'm definitely gonna do that. I'm gonna do that uh beans in purgatory recipe that you have which is kind of like you know with beaten beans and the eggs in purgatory with the beans like I'm gonna maybe do it more shaksuka style though Quinn gives me crap about like my shaksuka because I I cook my eggs separately and he's like, well, it's not shaksuka then. So but I'm gonna do that recipe with the beans in it because that sounds like a really fantastic idea. Do you also put cheese in that?
+
+[59:37] I don't remember. No cheese, right? Non-dairy on that one. No. And I think when I was a younger cook, everything was finished with parmesan.
+
+[59:48] Yeah, or cheese. We'll just add cheese. And as I get older, I'm just trying to think, how much can I pair back and she'll make it incredible? All right. Well sometimes you can't.
+
+[59:56] Yeah, sometimes you can't. Sometimes you pair it back too much. But anyway, uh the book is the Bean Book by Steve Sando uh from Rancho Gordo Beans. Go buy your beans. Go buy the book at Kitchen Arts and Letters.
+
+[1:00:06] Steve, thanks for coming on again. We'll see you guys next week on Cooking Issues. Thank you.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cookie Issues. This is Katie Varn, your host of Cookie Usually is coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City, News Dam Studios joined as you. Well, not as usual. John's not here. He's sick.
+
+[0:20] He's under the weather. What are you gonna do? But I do have Joe Hazen rocking the panels. How you doing, Joe? Hey, welcome to the studio.
+
+[0:25] Hey, yeah. How's everyone going? It's going all right. Although guess what? I silenced my phone, but you know what silencing is.
+
+[0:31] It's going off the hook right now with something. Do you know what doesn't silence? Alarms don't silence. So stupid. Uh I was born stupid.
+
+[0:39] Uh I'm gonna start in reverse. In the upper upper left, we have Quinn. How you doing? Hey, I'm all right. You uh few chilling it up up there.
+
+[0:48] Everything good? Yeah. It sounds it yeah. Uh always chipper. Uh moving down uh on that coast, we got in uh Los Angeles, Jackie Molecules.
+
+[1:01] How you doing? Yep, I'm good. Yeah, and Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. What's up? Hi.
+
+[1:10] I you know, I I can never I try to like because I never speak to anyone on this show before I get in the morning, so I try to read in the way they say hello, what's actually going on behind the scenes. And uh what? What I don't really understand text this morning. What text? I don't know, something about gaslighting and home depot.
+
+[1:31] Oh, the question is is someone you are are doing a project with is gaslighting you. Right? Let me introduce let's get our guest in on this. So uh from the new book Taste in Music, eating on tour with indie musicians. We have Luke Pyonson.
+
+[1:46] How are you doing? Good. Thank you for having me. Now I feel like I can, you know, interject with the thing. Yeah, and I yeah.
+
+[1:50] And so like I'll give you the Nastasia, in case you haven't seen that the book yet. What it is is what? What? Oh, I didn't know that was a real question. I thought it was in reference to Home Depot.
+
+[2:01] Never mind. We can talk later. Well, no, it's an interesting question. So the question is if someone's gaslighting you, right? The gaslighting isn't necessarily working on me.
+
+[2:12] Like I don't believe the things that are being said to me, but it's still irritating and inefficient. Right? And maybe they believe this stuff. See, I think there's like a isn't it can't it be the case that the person who's gaslighting you actually believes their own story? Can't that be true?
+
+[2:29] You know, I have a friend who's a uh philosophy professor and she specializes in gaslighting. Ooh, all right. So I wish we could get her on the I thought you were gonna give us like a like a little chestnut. I mean, no, I don't have any chestnuts, but I know it I know a specialist if you need to talk to someone, that's all I'm saying. Yeah.
+
+[2:45] All right, Quinn, what was your gaslighting? What was your gaslighting idea? Well no, I was gonna say I think gaslighting employs intent. If they just believe something that's incorrect and they're telling it to you, that's just being delusional. No, but if it's always in their favor and it always happens, then it's I mean, in other words, like like I try to treat things in an old testament sort of way.
+
+[3:09] I don't look towards intent, right? I look towards action and words and speech, and so like I mean, intent is somewhat important if they were gonna go to court, but if like the effect is the same, it could be an into art, it could be an AI doing it to me. I don't care. You know what I mean? It's like it's just irritating and inefficient.
+
+[3:25] You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Uh you know, because gaslighting, probably a great technique if it works, right? You drive someone else crazy and you make them think that what you're saying is accurate when it's not. But if it doesn't work, it's just a pain in the butt, no.
+
+[3:46] Anyway. Uh uh I took out my glasses so I saw I can't see anything. So uh Luke, this is the portion of the uh program where we all discuss anything that's happened over the past week, usually in food, but not always in food, right? So uh what what what does anyone what does anyone got? Hmm.
+
+[4:07] Um so two things. Um first um on the music front, because I know it's a music show. I I was looking at the totally wrong list before when you asked. I do know a lot of people in this book, and I happen to see TV on the radio play this weekend. So I feel like that's kind of like in line with uh some of the stuff you got in the book.
+
+[4:25] Um but then moving to food, Dave. Um went to Parks Barbecue again, which I hadn't been to in a while, which is like a legendary Korean barbecue spot here. I have a question for you. Um what's your strategy for all the little dishes that come out with the barbecue? Do you just go in blind?
+
+[4:43] Do you ask? You know what I mean? Oh, I mean, I just eat them all, like fast. You eat them all. Often they will bring you more.
+
+[4:53] They do. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. I like I like all like I like almost all of those things.
+
+[4:59] Like there's very few of those things, like uh like is there any that you are worried about in particular? Like there's the marinated crab. No, some of them though, I like couldn't tell you what some of them are. You know, I eat them, I'm like, that's delicious. I don't bother asking or doing any additional research, though.
+
+[5:14] Well, here's what you should do. I don't know whether it's good enough at this yet, but Google reverse search is very good for products. Maybe it's also working for food at this point. If not, it should soon. Did I have this conversation?
+
+[5:26] I'm having a super deja vu moment where so I was a philosophy undergrad. Oh. Yeah. And then and uh so like I used to love to read Plato all the time. Uh-huh.
+
+[5:29] I loved it. Did we talk about this on air? And uh, but I you know, I always thought he was a moron. I mean, great writer, you know what I mean? But like fundamentally wrong, obviously, right?
+
+[5:43] Like the idea of the platonic form, I thought was kind of absurd, right? Like there's no there's no truth to like the dogness of a dog or the chairness of a chair, for instance, right? Right. And yet here's AI. Like basically saying, look, I can like not know anything and see the chairness of a chair.
+
+[5:59] But maybe that's as far as forms go. I know there's a lot of scholarly research right now. I just haven't read it because who has the time to read philosophy when you're you know busy losing money at a in a cooking business, right, Sas? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, maybe I got I got I got offered a job as uh a phone bank person for Home Depot, and it said I can make anywhere between 50 and $1,000 a day.
+
+[6:23] I was like, all of those numbers are better than we're actually doing right now, Stas. Yeah. Uh yeah. Anyway, so uh how do we get on this? Oh, barbecue, just eat it.
+
+[6:37] Reverse Yeah, reverse search on Google, yeah. Yeah. Then you can find, hopefully, you can find out what the thing is. But it's often wrong. Even my plant ID app, which is phenomenally amazing.
+
+[6:46] Yeah, I was gonna say plants, I feel like is where it really excels. It's very good except for when it's not. You know what I mean? Like, because it's not actually what I mean, I'm sure you know this. What they're what they're not actually doing is is doing like a bifurcating tree like you would do for plant ID, where it's like, okay, opposite leaves, okay, where does it live?
+
+[7:05] You know, all this stuff, and like figuring out, are there free, you know, are there f are there bristle tips on the lease? Like it's not doing that. It's just it's just people, people, peep like doing it's you know, neural garbage and then coming out with a this is uh and sometimes it's just dead round. Yeah. You know?
+
+[7:19] So maybe it wouldn't do that for Perilla, you know, maybe it'd tell you the prilla was cheese so maybe it depends on like like it's I think on stuff that people take a lot of pictures of, it's probably pretty much. Yeah, and I think Banchan is pretty well photographed in this day. I don't know whether people have trained the set. That's the thing. Have they trained the set?
+
+[7:34] Yeah. Garbage in, garbage out. That's like a lot of the early big data stuff was uh on food, was just bad because they're like, uh they just fed it a bunch of like white folk stuff. Yeah. And then so like, you know, you got back white folk answers.
+
+[7:48] And they're like, oh, look, butter and flour go well together. Okay, guy. You know what I mean? It's like garbage in, garbage out. I think it's the same with all of this stuff, you know.
+
+[7:56] Yeah. I love people who are like, algorithms can't be racist. Okay. Okay. Okay.
+
+[8:05] You know what I mean? Uh anyway. All right, Quinn, you've always got something in the food front. By the way, I didn't I saw an absolute opposite band from uh what uh Jack saw. I saw the New York Philharmonic.
+
+[8:16] Oh, there you go. Yeah, very different bands. Pretty okay. That's a good band, though. Yeah.
+
+[8:19] It was a great band. Actually, I haven't been there probably like in like a decade. I was gonna ask, so it's now that it's renovated as the does it sound any better, in other words? That's what I was gonna ask. I mean, I don't remember how bad it used to sound.
+
+[8:32] So for those of you that don't know, like the New York Philharmonic played in what was like worldwide known as the crappiest sounding auditorium of any major uh what's it called, orchestra. Like just trash. Compare, and we have like one of the best in the world. We have Carnegie Hall, but like our best orchestra, no offense to all of us, orchestra. Like plays in the played in the crappiest.
+
+[8:55] Best band, arguably. Yeah, best band. Yeah. What was it? It was uh what was that thing called?
+
+[8:59] Al's Tully, right? Mm-hmm. Anyway. Alice Tully Hall. Yeah.
+
+[9:01] And uh it's now it's named after like David. Yeah. And I it sounded it sounded pretty good. How are the sight lines? I remember terrible sight lines in the old one too.
+
+[9:10] Oh, it was good, and we were up in this like second tier, like not quite uh my nose wasn't quite bleeding. I didn't have to like pull out the Kleenex, but like it sounded good and I could see everything that was going on. And it was one of those rare things where they were doing like a multiple performer bid uh you know multiple uh composer bid, and like I wanted to see one and my wife wanted to see my wife was going for the Shostakovich and I was going for the Prakafia. I was like and then she ended up liking the Prokafia more and I ended up liking the Shastakovich more. Wow.
+
+[9:37] You know? What do you gonna do? What are you gonna do? And I want to sit in those seats that are right above the band, you know? Like there's that tier that's like behind the stuff.
+
+[9:47] Like the thin one where you're gonna fall off. I'm I don't like heights. Yeah, no, I don't love heights either, but I feel like there aren't there rows that are like you're like right at the stage, right above it, but I feel like they're bad seats, so they're not that expensive. Nastasia would get that and love it. Nastasia's favorite view of any band is the side of their faces.
+
+[10:03] Like from behind. I want a bird's eye view of all the wacky percussion. I just want to see the guy that's standing there most of the time, and then every so often they'll pick up a triangle or pick up uh they had a lot of percussion going on because of Russians, like you know what I mean? And like uh yeah, they had like dual dual tympathy uh timpans, like well like two Tippany guys mostly. Well, they were doing also like just a lot of like you know, yeah.
+
+[10:27] The Timpany folk were on point, and uh whatever they call that giant bass drum that they have. Uh huh. I don't know what the hell they call it. Me neither. What you mean you don't know what they call that?
+
+[10:35] Honestly, no. What the hell, dude? Aren't you a drummer? You said it was an opposite. You know, I never did like symphony band, I always did jazz when I was younger.
+
+[10:43] You're like a brush freak. Not a brush freak. I can look at your I am not a brush freak. You're a brush I'm not a brush freak, but what I can tell you is that Vic Firth, the main manufacturer of drumsticks, also makes a pepper mill. I don't know if you know that.
+
+[10:58] I did not. Same wood. Really? Same wood. But like, okay, whatever.
+
+[11:03] Sticks are better than the shit. What are they, Ash? I don't know. I actually don't know what the wood is, but that's their two products drumsticks and pepper mills. What's your stick size?
+
+[11:11] I use the Peter Erskine ride stick, which is a little bit thinner and it has like a tapered tip, and it's named after Peter Erskine, who is a jazz like session drummer. Yeah. His daughter Maya Erskine is a is a well known actress. Yeah. So you like a lighter lighter stick?
+
+[11:28] I like a lighter stick. Yeah. Wait, what's over under? Over over under. What's that?
+
+[11:33] Snare. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Sorry? Well, you hold your sticks. Oh, trad or non trad?
+
+[11:40] I do I I don't do trad grip, yeah. I feel like oh whatever. I have my own opinions about folks who do trad grip in a rock band, but uh it's not for me. The uh drummer from my college band played with marching band sticks. That is crazy.
+
+[11:53] That's like well, the guy from like Tool will use that too, you know. I forget what the numbers were. There were some number of D or something like that. They were big freaking sticks. And then when he learned that Fish from Fishbone used like two B's or some tiny little stick, he was like, This is reminding me of the album cover for Pink Floyd.
+
+[12:10] It was at Omagama or not Omagama live at um Pompeii, where they have all their instruments laid out, including the truck that drove all the console. Yes. Yes. I love that picture. Yeah.
+
+[12:19] How how much do you hate like a vocalist who doesn't have to carry heavy gear? Speaking of that. Oh man, I mean, I just like in our band, we did share a lot of the schlepping, I have to say. Um, but no, I don't resent anybody. I'm happy to schlep, it's my burden.
+
+[12:33] No, so you're a liar. I'm kidding. I'm gaslighting you. Dang. Covered and smothered.
+
+[12:39] There you go. Wow. All right, listen. We don't have John to do his uh McGillas. So if you're listening live and you want to call in questions about ostensibly about eating whilst on the road, right?
+
+[12:50] Or anything, eating. Because we, because like uh we're gonna we're gonna have to get some regular questions in as well, otherwise we're never gonna get to them. Call in your questions to 917 410 1507. That's 917 410 1507. That's if you're a live Patreon listener.
+
+[13:03] And Quinn, why don't you tell them how to do that? Well, I mean, they're listening live if they are a patron at Patreon.com slash cooking issues, where you get all sorts of benefits like listening live, priority questions, uh, occasional discounts with our sort of guests or friends of the show. Um, and you also get $20 off of the Sears All Pro. Dave, why don't you tell them about the current Sears All Pro holiday sale? Oh, yeah, yeah.
+
+[13:41] Sears All Pro. The Sears All Pro is 50% larger than the traditional Sears All, but the same weight and the same height. So safe, safe, safe now on Map Gas to really sear the hell out of your food. And you can get it for $20 off, which is almost the price of a regular Sears All on crappy, crappy Amazon, who hasn't paid us in a year and a half. Yeah, so right now, the Sears All Pro is $100 on Booker Index.com.
+
+[14:13] And if you are a patron at the uh all access or VIP level, you can search the archive for a $20 off code that still works on top of the sale price. Yo, Quinn, don't do that to me on the fly though. You know how hard it is to come up with ad copy and do the stupid voice at the same time, man? It's not easy, man. Gotta give me some time.
+
+[14:36] I can come up with copy for you. You know what I mean? Although, to be fair to you, I wouldn't have taken taken the time to come up with the copy. So yeah. Anyway.
+
+[14:47] Also, to the Patreon people, I want to know this. Listen, I have so many 3D files that I have, like 3D print files. I have no idea what percentage of uh the people who are on the Patreon have access to a 3D printer or even care about this kind of stuff. So let us know on the on the Discord or whatever. Like if you do do 3D printing, what kind of 3D printer do you use?
+
+[15:09] If you do like laser cutting, let us know what you have. And then if you know if there's people out there who want some of these files, like for instance, you got your espresso people. Yeah. So I moved away from my giant 20, this is like, you know, almost a year ago now. I moved away from my giant Rocky grinder, which was big, but it was 25 years old and you know, it was getting long in the tooth.
+
+[15:29] And I moved to a uh Barazzasette, right? But I didn't want to get the one that weighs because it's too fiddly for me. So I 3D printed a uh a better single dose hopper than the one you can buy for it on the internet. Oh so anyway, things like this that you could, you know, you could have, because I don't care. I'm never gonna commercialize these things.
+
+[15:47] Do you have a 3D printer? Oh, yeah. I've been I have the same 3D printer for like 12 years now. I I I need to get a diaper um like uh uh a thing for a top of a diaper thing. Maybe you can send it over to you to print for me.
+
+[15:58] Do you have an STL? I haven't got it from the website. Yeah, all right. Uh like, you know, I print everything at ABS, so hopefully, hopefully that's okay. If how big is it though?
+
+[16:06] Uh uh it's gotta be probably maybe six by six, maybe about an inch in depth. It's not so bad. No, it's not so bad. Because the things take forever. But I I print like tons of parts on that all the time.
+
+[16:20] Uh like I have for for years and years and years. My whole house is like half 3D printed little Gotsis. Well, wasn't the whole point to send these like this these schematics up to space to print while in space for the parts of the satellites and space stations? I mean, the problem is is that you have to print functional items and functional so it depends on what your like what your idea of functional is. So, like a lot of people like to print in a material called PLA because it's kind of like theoretically eco-friendly and like you know, a bioplastic and all this.
+
+[16:47] But it just it sucks under heat. They it's heat deflection temperature is just too low, so I can't use it for anything almost. I print on you know, so like it all depends on. Yeah, in sp but because it's really hot in space. It gets really freaking hot in space and really freaking cold.
+
+[17:03] Yeah, true. You know what I mean? Like it's so it's like, and you know, like a lot of those parts need to be made of metal. So the answer is yes, you could do it. You know what I mean?
+
+[17:10] Like everyone thought like uh when metal printing became big, and maybe it has happened that like Boeing, you know, back when people were like, ooh, Boeing. You know what I mean? Like Boeing is gonna like have like 3D printers wherever like their maintenance stuff is, so that instead of having to wait for a part to show up from across the country, they'll just be like beep boop beep. I don't think it's happened yet. But metal printing is sick.
+
+[17:33] Sick. Love Boeing. Do you really hear Boeing then? I don't know. No.
+
+[17:38] Yeah. I mean, I I use their products unwillingly. Yeah. Right. So we you're not.
+
+[17:43] It's usually Boeing. You're not. Well, when I get on a plane, I feel like it's a good thing. You don't need those aerobus things. You're not an aerobus person?
+
+[17:49] I'll go. I mean, whatever they put me on. That's what it is. I know. I was never in a bus.
+
+[17:55] Never did a bus. Oh, well, wait, wait. Okay, okay. So to touring for a second. So like what so you did you did you never did bus?
+
+[18:02] Did you do van? Van, sprinter, minivan, sedan. Ooh, sufud. Yeah. Sedan.
+
+[18:08] Oh, that's the roughest. Sedans. How far did you tour in a sedan? Oh, I did cross country there and back in a sedan. How many sedans?
+
+[18:15] One sedan. How many pieces in the band? Uh one time with four and one time with three. Gear on top? Gear on top the first time and like gear not on top the second time.
+
+[18:27] What kind of gas mileage did you get? Oh man, like terrible. The second what kind of car was it? It was like an old Corolla, I want to say. The second time, the first time.
+
+[18:36] It was an old Acura. Oh Jesus. Are you familiar with the book about how to cook using your engine block? I have heard about it. There's two different books on the subject of how to cook using your engine block.
+
+[18:47] I feel like you could have killed all the birds with nine stones. Yeah, maybe we could have. Yeah. But the the gear on top thing doesn't work. It's not it's not good.
+
+[18:55] Yeah. Did you even like cause like it's not like friendly gear? Well, I guess. Did the bassist have his uh uh his or her own cab or were they de boxing it? There was no cab, it was just uh just a single at you know, single.
+
+[19:06] Yeah. But uh we put like our suitcases on it. It was just it was terrible. I don't I don't want to think about it, but I'm proud of it. Did you do an airplane tour?
+
+[19:15] Well, in Australia, that's how you tour. Yeah. You take planes between every uh every city because it's so freaking far. Yeah. All right, caller.
+
+[19:23] We have a caller, caller, you're on the air. What's up? Uh yeah, hi. This is Patrick from New York. Uh how you doing?
+
+[19:28] I'm right. How you doing? Good. This may be related to eating on the road. In fact, it is.
+
+[19:34] But I have a really basic question that I've been meaning to ask for a while. Do you does one need to wash fruits or vegetables? I'm not talking about sand or grit or anything like that, but a vegetable or piece of fruit that you can buy in a supermarket, or I guess a farmer's market in the United States. Does one for for for health and safety reasons actually need to wash it? Yeah, we should get the riskier not folk in.
+
+[20:05] So that you're saying aside from whether or not they've coated it with some sort of something or whether or not there's any sort of pesticide application, are you talking about human filth? Yeah, let's let's accept pet pesticides. Like let's say a I'm gonna I'm gonna use a pr a real world example that's constant as that. I can buy escarol at a supermarket near me. Sometimes it's it has grit, but sometimes it has zero grit.
+
+[20:31] And I'm inclined not to not to bother go through the whole you know, rigmarole of washing, rinsing, drying if I'm not gonna bite down on a rock. Esquerole gets quite wet. Okay, okay, listen. How do you guys wash your esc? Escarol's an important problem.
+
+[20:45] How do you guys wash your escarol? For me, it's you we break the leaves apart, immersion soak in your in a giant pot or better yet, a colander, and then spin it dry. And 'cause like I have never once seen I've seen escroll that comes cleaned, but there's always that one little piece of dirt. Do you do you cut the bottom of your escarol off? Is that why?
+
+[21:09] Do you cut enough off the bottom that it all the dirt is like trapped in the little I check I check I ch I check the bottom for that way I cut it off for dirt most of it most of it's in the bottom inch yeah that's true you have you have clean leaves after that but that got me thinking is like well do I need the escroll is the base of the question in fact but if you know I'm drawing it the broader kind of thing. Cabbage this is other salad leaves. Separate but like for instance like I'm petri so like there are things that I always do no matter what just because like I've seen what happens when you don't it's like when you get fresh cod you look at it because worms right when you get like Brussels sprouts you look at it because like little maggody things in Brussels sprouts you look at the base of a Brussels sprout leaf you'll see sometimes like a small borehole or you'll see like the leaves kind of like round and when you cut those open you can see boreholes through them all the time. And so like I always check my Brussels sprouts and I cut off every single I've if you eat a Brussels sprout at my house I have looked at it individually trimmed the end of it off where it was trimmed a million years ago and like taken the outer leaves off and like looked at it and been like Buddy are you okay? Which is why I don't really like making them even though they're my wife's favorite vegetable.
+
+[22:32] Favorite she loves Brussels sprouts and I like them. I like them I don't like preparing them yeah for that reason. Or like pistachios you have to look at every if you buy shell pistachios you have to look at every single pistachio because the bad pistachio is like not just because of the aflatoxin, because who cares if you live or die really? It just tastes so bad. Yeah, so ruin your ruin your ruin your evening.
+
+[22:54] Do you like a salad spinner? Love salads. I hate all actual salad spinners, but I like the function of them. So back to the question at hand. Uh how many times have you been at a store and you've seen someone pick up a fruit and or vegetable?
+
+[23:09] And then you look at them and you're like, nah, nah. Yeah, that's why you wash it. Because like that person, you don't know if that person has picked up your vegetable or not. You know what I mean? That per I once went to a very famous place, served very fancy cheese.
+
+[23:25] Two of us. So I know you know how like people are like, you never know who it was that gave you the food poisoning. Yeah, unless multiple people who only ate one meal together get food poisoned. Yeah. And I got set on like double spray, spray out of both sides, like like on fire, like, you know, shot, right?
+
+[23:41] And because someone didn't wash their hands, and they, you know, handled the cheese that they had sliced and didn't cook. So anything that you're gonna eat, once you're gonna cook it, I think it's much less of a problem. Like you're you're actually thinking raw though that that even helps remove that, or at that point it's contaminated anyway. I don't so so like a lot of the E. coli problems with uh aren't wash again.
+
+[24:03] We I'm not an expert on this, right? But like a lot of that stuff, I think was internal. Like, so like in other words, like the somehow the bacteria had gotten on it, dripped on it a long time ago. But I think surface stuff you can I think surface stuff is. And cooking it.
+
+[24:17] I mean washing it and cooking it. But I feel like it's always lettuces. But even if you're not gonna do it. Yes, it's always a salad that'll kill you. That's what you tell any pregnant person.
+
+[24:23] It's a salad that'll kill you. Right. You know what I mean? Like, or the deli meat. Things that you're not gonna cook, right?
+
+[24:28] The deli meat will kill you. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like listeria, like the thing is is that listeria is not gonna get the vast majority of us sick, but if it does get you sick, you're in real trouble. You know what I mean?
+
+[24:38] And so uh I think it what it's not that you can kill or remove all of the bacteria, it's not like I'm spraying Clorox on my vegetables. I think some people put like hard quests. I was gonna say I actually had an old bandmate who washed apples with soap because he was with dish soap. He's brought up that way. That's creepy.
+
+[24:54] So that just to tie into my book. Where do they where do they where did they is that in here? I didn't see that. It's not in there. Yeah and where did they grow up?
+
+[25:01] He grew up in upstate New York. Uh-huh growing uh religious strawberries with baking soda. What? Why? It's I I have no idea.
+
+[25:11] Like in a like soaking them in Yeah exactly. Why? Weird. It does this crazy effect where it gets super foamy and then come Yeah well that makes sense because they're acidic. Huh?
+
+[25:20] But why would you be killing the acid in your strawberry like a jerk. Anyway point being that uh even if you can't kill all of the stuff with washing I believe you can reduce the the bacterial load. And like some of it might be in like surface filth. So getting I think any time you reduce the bacterial load, it's not that you necessarily made it 100% safe. It's still the salad that's gonna kill you.
+
+[25:42] But uh you know I think you've just lessened the killing. You know what I mean? And then Esquerol you're brazen it probably so I mean like yeah although there is an escrow escarrol is you know it's it's good every every preparation but it is also the one that this is a supermarket that I only buy the escrow at because all the other produces is is is expensive and not of good quality but that's a good comment no cashier in two years has ever got escroll correctly even after buying you know hundreds hundreds of heads. Oh man. It's an interesting problem.
+
+[26:17] So do you walk up and you're like, escroll do you just remember the uh the the skew for it so you can give them the PLU? Well, the funny thing is that sometimes it's remembered as a thing 'cause the price is variable because it's per head. So sometimes it's it's inputted as a thing that's slightly lower in price, sometimes higher. So you you like the gamble. I've corrected both times, but you know what it sort of offends my my my my heritage Italian heritage that no one knows what this very delicious vegetable is.
+
+[26:47] What does it get input incorrectly as? More as like a bib, more as like uh more as like a romaine? What do they correct incorrectly putting it? Green leaf is the most common. Green leaves.
+
+[26:58] The romaine. Yeah. And then green as green as as green cabbage, which is the most bizarre one. What? But um, yeah, yeah.
+
+[27:09] Yeah. So yeah, no, and nobody nobody knows what escroll is. Just sad. But everybody knows what green cabbage is. I mean, like even sadder.
+
+[27:18] What if they what if they were like Oreos? What if they just like put it in as like something completely different? Because like green cabbage is so far away. Right? Well, n I guess because they're supposed to be real heavy and they're real cheap per pound.
+
+[27:32] Yeah, I mean, that's probably the ideal. But I like that you like the gamble. But the idea that you wouldn't know the difference between a a heading brassica and a non heading, you know, I don't know Escroll's a brassic. I will take I will take I'll take this that take this exact quote to the to the cashier. It's nice on there and see how they see see how I see how I get treated.
+
+[27:53] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I wouldn't I wouldn't. I mean like uh yeah. Yeah. Oh speaking of a grocery, so how many grocery stores are there in your neighborhood?
+
+[28:03] Um this this will help identify what it is without naming it. It is a there's a brook a Brooklyn-based minute mini, sort of high-end supermarket chain, but that it of four to five stores. Um Brooklyn Fair, I think I have a guess. Brooklyn Fair, right? I think it's Union Market.
+
+[28:21] You think it's Union Market? Oh, we have one by us. Uh that's neither confirmed nor deny. Yeah, there's one in in Manhattan, but there's a there is one located w uh a two-minute walk from our apartment now. So that's the source of much escarrol, but m mu no other produce, basically because of it's if it's uh if it's price.
+
+[28:39] So but yeah, so we're familiar with we've now named the location. So all right. So listen, so how do you do your escroll? Because escroll is important. How do you do your escroll?
+
+[28:47] Well, I do escroll everywhere, but I do like it as a salad, you know, as a raw salad, not just cooked. Um you're a bitter bitter man. In yes. In in in soups, in you know, I like it bright you know, braised in any preparation. And for Christmas, I was thinking of doing it bra just braised in heavy cream, like you know, several heads, which was thought would be pretty good.
+
+[29:10] Obviously on Christmas and not Christmas Eve if you're Italian, are you doing the fish? Uh I will be not preparing Christmas Eve. So, but but this will be for Christmas Day anyway. So, yeah, braise escrow. Yeah, cream.
+
+[29:25] Queen of you, are you guys doing the fish this year? No, we I don't think we've ever done fish. Okay. Gotta do the fish. Anyway, maybe when we went to my grandma's.
+
+[29:35] I did have a fish idea, Dave, that you would you would love is piece of the one fist. Just do cod, you know. Seven, you know. Like seven different ways. So instead of like doing all of the different things, just to so like I'm gonna put this out there as a as a plug for a people who'd pay me nothing.
+
+[29:51] But Calluccio Brothers in Brooklyn, right? So it's near, I don't know what neighborhood that actually is. I think it's near Sunnyside or some crap like this. But Calluccio Brothers between now and Christmas has the best cod display I have seen in the United States ever, salted cod. So they have like five different varieties of whole sides of cod, as well as like the box-down fat, like baccala like like setups that you can do.
+
+[30:19] So if you anyone wants to really up their cod game this year and you and you're stopping near Brooklyn, go buy Caluccio's and see the serious cod business. I'll put in a plug for Portugalia Marketplace and Fall River Mass, which I wrote about for Sever. They've got a whole climate-controlled room for their baccalau. It is they've probably got, I don't know, upwards of 25 varieties and cuts of bacalao, including a bin of bits, which I think for the shredded Portuguese preparations is the best, and it's easier to soak and easier to cook with. Baccala bits.
+
+[30:51] I'll tell you, I typically buy, and this is okay. I'm gonna give a couple actual cooking related things here. I uh do a lot of preparations where the cod is like, or it's not it's not even really cod, it's poly. Come on, some corn cheap. Anyway, so like but like uh is shredded, and so like you don't really need to do much.
+
+[31:09] So if you're like mixing like salt fish into like mashed yams, for instance, or you know, like actual yams, not like sweet potatoes, like actual cams. I was gonna say that sounds a little real yams. Real yams. Like like nominate. Yeah, right.
+
+[31:23] Stuff like that. So like for that, I think the cheap stuff, because it's so thin, you know, I still I don't I've never done the actual test, but like still to my mind, I'm like, don't boil it, don't boil it. Yeah. You know, but like I just bring it up warm to like, you know. My mom used to do, I'm kind of triggered because my mom used to do the like, you know, like week-long soak and I spilled it once all over our laundry.
+
+[31:43] Oh no. Because it was in the laundry room, right? In a tub in the laundry room. Is that the best place for it? Yeah, on top of the washer.
+
+[31:50] So, you know, when I was a kid, I was like, what's this? Boom! And like the, you know, the backlog juice all over everything is a nightmare. Yeah. Anyway, um point being that uh it's good, but I like the cheap stuff for like because that stuff you can get the salt out.
+
+[32:06] You don't even really need to because you're gonna shred it, but you can get it out like in an evening. You don't need to like, you know, do a lot of planning for it. Uh all right, I will tell you my escroll. Uh I do uh my mom's old escroll, which is like real like quick weeknight meal, is you just fry up, you put un you fry up a bunch of bacon with onions, so you sweat out the onions and the bacon at the same time. Chop up like old school, like, you know, 70s pepperoni, like a half a stick, dice it, throw that in there.
+
+[32:35] Beans, escarol. She use cantalini beans. Sounds great. It is pepper. You know, I I do it now super fancy where I start from dry beans and I use all this stuff, but my mom's is still, you know, the one I remember.
+
+[32:46] But that's that's my go-to Escroll, kind of stewed. I like it stewed. You a raw escrow, man? I like it stew. It sounds like it sounds like Utica Green.
+
+[32:54] So well, I think that I thank you for the answer. And now now I'm gonna have $20 head to Escarol since I've identified myself on air as the only purchaser of Escroll in this market. The the uh the odds that they're listening, minimal. All right, well, good luck, good luck uh getting cabbage prices for your escrow. Thanks.
+
+[33:15] All right. So uh where was it? Let's go into the book. Oh, yeah, yeah, okay. So like uh I'm just gonna say I forget who uh I forget who said it, but like one of the musicians, so the the the format of this book is is that uh it's not really interviews, it's more like you know, musicians, some of whom you're friends with and some of whom like you're just like I don't know, you're not friends with Bob Mould, right?
+
+[33:38] No, I can't say I am. I mean like I was like, oh Bob Mould. Like so like you know we're joking about like it's good Okay, so for those of you that don't know, it's indie musicians. So how do you define indie? First of all, let's get into that.
+
+[33:48] Oh man. There's no definition. It's it's meaningless. Well, how much money does an indie person make? For instance, what I thought was hilarious is that one of the one of the people who had a like a diverticulitis when they were really young, like didn't seek medical treatment because I think they weren't insured, but also because their whole band was making a hundred dollars a night.
+
+[34:08] I'm making a hundred dollars a night as a professional musician, so I'm not gonna go help myself. Exactly. You know what I mean? So like so what like what level like what level of indie so indie goes from starving to you're making a real living, right? Like what's the range?
+
+[34:22] Yeah, there's a wide spectrum that includes all of that and even includes I don't know, there's people who are probably making a ton of money who who would be classified as indie under the very broad meaningless definition. Right, like pavements in here, but is that really indie? Yeah, pavements for sure, pavements indie. And I also, you know, I don't know. I mean, now they can sell places out because of nostalgia, right?
+
+[34:43] You're saying back in the day when Slanthin Enchanted came out, and like Yeah, I mean pioneers of what is considered to be indie rock for sure. And still indie. But I you know talking has Bob Mould's whole thing in here is called Econo. Because he was poor as hell during Husker Doo. I didn't start listening to them because I'm not that old, but I didn't start listening to him until Warehouse came out, the compilation of their stuff.
+
+[35:04] But then when his solo stuff came out, I thought he was huge, but I guess he wasn't huge. He was still indie. Sure was huge. I mean, it so literally it's if you're on an independent label, right? But even that is kind of like nebulous.
+
+[35:17] You know, my band was on subpop, 51% is owned by Sub Pop and 49% is Warner Brothers, I believe. So even that is kind of like what's indie, what's not indie? You know, we've got Phoebe Bridges' uh touring chef in here, Phoebe Bridges. Yeah, yeah. Started as indie, I think still classified on playlists or whatever is indie.
+
+[35:37] I don't know. But I think we just needed we need to call it something, and that was the easiest. Ind indie indie cred, rich people money. Yeah. What I will say is that my great aunt who's 85 years old picked up the book at Thanksgiving and said, Taste in music, eating on tour with Indian Muslims.
+
+[35:54] Wow. So that's just that's another spin. That's a that's a whole different book. Yeah, that's a whole different book. You should I mean, like, it's it's you're not really in the position to write that book, but you know, you I'm not you can find people who could.
+
+[36:08] Maybe. Um I I can't find who the quote is, but someone someone in here gave like the perfect quote, and it's someone who had made some money, she'd made she'd gotten more famous. That's probably Natalie from Wise Blood. Well, the quote was, you know, that I st I started off one of the one of the themes that runs through this is the older musicians like came up when people didn't care about food as much in general. Definitely like they were all fast food.
+
+[36:37] Like one of the quotes I thought was hilarious was uh the chef from uh I think from Nashville, she was like, when a heavy metal band comes through, they don't give a rat's behind what the hell they're served, so I just get them like Popeyes or some crap. But it's like if an indie band from Brooklyn specifically, so you you weasels, like are coming through, like she's gonna give a crap because you give a crap. So, like there definitely seems to be a real like age break between uh older people, basically food not being more than just sustenance or being like vegan punk, like you know, like Mould was back in the day, right? I think he was. And then like uh, or like, you know, now when you know, the only person I know who, you know, was one of my old bartenders who had touring musician, you know, he's a food freak.
+
+[37:20] Yeah. You know what I mean? So like why do you think that break happened? And the the quote I think was perfect. So I'm part of this thing called the Museum of Food and Drink, right?
+
+[37:26] And um, like part of the notion there is that and I remember the quote, she said, I used to think that good food was bougie. Mm-hmm. Right. But it's not bougie, it's for everyone. And like that's the big jump that she made mentally, and now she has more money, so it's it's good.
+
+[37:44] But like the the point being that like that's the whole goal of the museum, that it shouldn't be bougie, that like, you know, like you know, working, you know, working style musicians who are like on the road like all the time shouldn't have to poison themselves. Yeah, you know, to to do it. Yeah. Who was it? Do you remember who that was Natalie from Wise Blood, Natalie Maring, yeah.
+
+[38:01] Yeah. It's a great quote. And it's true. It's it's it's funny because in the US, you just what she was talking about is getting a tour in Europe more, you know, and getting a little bit more successful, but being able to do the even the DIY tours in in Europe, uh which promoters really they really care about showing you a good time and sharing their local local culture with you. And it just doesn't really happen in the US.
+
+[38:24] Um and so I think at least in in our world of quote unquote indie music, a lot of people get exposed to these sorts of styles of eating uh when they get to tour in Europe for the first time and they're like, oh wow, like people are eating this food that would cost so much at a restaurant uh where I live, um, and be thought of as bougie or whatever, but here it's just normal. Well, it seems that like the actual like you know, home cook hospitality seems to happen more not here. It does not ha I mean I should say, so there's this I forget if this term comes up in the book or not, but like there's this this whole idea of promoter pasta, which is really that's what you're gonna get in the US if you get anything at all, which I think kind of sounds like what it is. It's a big vat of you know, whatever pasta with some kind of jarred sauce. What's the standard?
+
+[39:11] Apparently, I don't know if you know this. Not you, you know this. You wrote it. But like every every green room has hummus, apparently. Every green room has hummus.
+
+[39:18] We we had a kind of a anti-hummus manifesto written by uh Stephen Merritt that we were not able to include because it was a little over the top. A little over the top. How so over the top. You can include it here. It was it was maybe not a hundred percent sensitive to the uh strong cultural foundations of hummus.
+
+[39:43] And that's something we didn't want to wade into with the same thing, is like a hummus is delicious. You just don't want only hummus. That's all he was trying to say. It's like it is true. It's every single green room, and like, you know, it gets pretty pretty bad after Does the cracker change?
+
+[40:01] I'm not even seeing crackers in my mind's eye. I'm seeing like dry crudette. Oh, I love it. Like like like ashy carrots. Yes.
+
+[40:08] Yeah. Uh celery where the ends have started to split open. Correct. A little bit of brown, just a like a little bit of brown. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[40:15] Um What's your least favorite crude de tae? Probably man, the thing is I theoretically I like crude, but if if we're talking about a green room crudete, I you know, I don't like baby carrots. Really? I don't I prefer they're not really baby carrots anyhow. Right.
+
+[40:30] But I don't like what they've done to them. And I don't like the specific kind of weird sweet flavor that they have. Do you not like the abrasive peeling technique that's used on them? They're like tumbled. What I don't like is when they cut if we're talking about so not in a crudete platter, if we're just talking a bag of baby carrots, which is another common green room thing.
+
+[40:46] That's a wet product. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's too wet. It's very wet.
+
+[40:53] I always rinse that. Going back to the caller before. Uh and you know, listen, I w I had um We had the risky or not podcasting on one of the people on from that, and he was like, Yeah, like all those things that say pre-washed, like the data is that it's safe. I'm like, oh hell no. Well no.
+
+[41:09] I'm gonna wash that crap. Yeah. You know what's you know what never works? Pre-washed arugula. You ever buy a pre-washed arugula?
+
+[41:16] Yeah. I mean you open the bag and it smells like a swamp. Wash that. Throw away, throw away the dark leaves. Wash the wet wash the wet carrots.
+
+[41:23] There was actually a carrot recall recently where you went. Yes, Listeria. Yeah. I'm up on the food safety news. You know, my my wife recently had a bacterial infection from a pink salad.
+
+[41:31] It's a salad. Yeah. Well, cucumbers are just recalled last week. Really? Yeah, listeria as well.
+
+[41:36] Cucumbers delicious. And obviously deli meat. The new bag was she pregnant. She uh was not and is not pregnant, but it kinda what happened is she has celiac disease. So we were in an airport and like, you know, normally a sandwich would be your go-to.
+
+[41:50] But she kind of had to eat a salad. We try to avoid eating an airports, but we were in Europe. It's just like a whole deal. Yeah, it's not a good situation. Airport salad, you could write a song.
+
+[41:59] Ugh wouldn't be a nice song. True or false. Every airport has an airport cowboy. When you say airport cowboy, this isn't probably what you're thinking of, but I'm thinking of the jingle at the Denver airport when you take the little tram, which is a really nice western jingle that kind of evokes the spirit of a Denver airport cut. No, do you have it in your head?
+
+[42:14] Yeah. Give it to me. Oh. Oh yeah. Huh.
+
+[42:28] And you know, you know what they're doing underneath Denver Airport. I heard it's haunted. We don't need to get into that. Isn't it haunted? I've heard they're kind of controlling pretty much everything from underneath there.
+
+[42:37] Is this like a pizza gate situation? Like is there's like a conspiracy theory. It's like a QAnon situation going on with the uh underneath the Denver airport. That's right. Does it involve murder?
+
+[42:46] Uh I don't know. I haven't gotten too deep into it. But I don't know. When I was abducted and taken down there, like they didn't show me they didn't show you all the stuff. Yeah.
+
+[42:54] Alright. Uh or hold a second. Let me uh let me uh let me let me s knock some stuff out of the way that's like questions that we've had for a million years. Uh from do you by the way, what is your I know that from the book that you know you're the one who makes people like get an Airbnb instead of staying at a crappy hotel and you actually like cook meals. When we can, yeah.
+
+[43:14] So like you know, weigh in on this stuff. Like what what do you like to cook? What's your what's your go-to? On tour? What I used to cook on tour, just in general.
+
+[43:21] Yeah. Both I mean what I co I can tell you what I cooked for dinner last night. What do you cook? Chicken milanese and a huge salad. Yeah.
+
+[43:30] Shaved fennel, a little bit of hakare turnip. Uh how do you do the milanese with uh gluten free? I'll tell you Kiko Man gluten free panko. I want to say I think it's better than the non gluten free panko. Those are strong words.
+
+[43:44] It gets so crispy. Well, the first dredge, usually I do rice flour, but we were out, so I use potato starch, which I think worked really well. Potato starch. Then egg, and then the the gluten-free panko is um, I think uh rice flour, pea protein, and some dextrose in there. Uh it gets so crispy.
+
+[44:01] Really? Yeah, it really gets so crispy. And this is recent, uh, the celiac stuff. It was just this year. So I have the you know, recent in my mind.
+
+[44:09] I can remember the uh pre-celiac milanese, and then I really think this is better. What's the overunder? Ten years when we can all get crispy, fix all the problems? Yes. I'm gonna get by the way.
+
+[44:19] What I'm referring to, people, in case you don't know what I'm talking about, is crisper, and I can't wait to get crispy. I'm gonna get so crisped up. Like I I'm gonna be the first in line to like like alter my DNA, like get all get all. If that could erase the celiac, I think my wife would be thrilled. Yeah.
+
+[44:33] But the Milanese is good. That hasn't suffered. Really? I don't uh well, you know, I think frying is one of those things that it can be done really well. It's just you have to switch your starch bases around.
+
+[44:42] But I've never done the, I've never done the panko. I've never done gluten-free cracker crumb or panko substitutes, only like straight fry, like batter fry stuff. Yeah. Well, that's that definitely works. And rice flour is such a good, you know, flour for that.
+
+[44:56] Good alt flour for crispy stuff. And you know, like Japanese fried chicken, for example. So crispy. I was just thinking, man, my house is a gluten nightmare. My house is just one big gluten hole.
+
+[45:09] Yeah. Like most are. Ours was up until May. I grind I grind flour like three times a week, and like so there's just a fine film of gluten. Yeah, we can't come over.
+
+[45:21] I had well, I had that happen. So I I think I said it on air, my son had a friend who was, you know, celiac, not like just, you know, didn't like gluten or whatever, like celiac. And he invited him over for dinner. I basically had to sequester all the ingredients in my kitchen, wash, like double wash everything, scrub the kitchen down, and then buy all new spices. Spices.
+
+[45:44] I bought everything new because like literally, like when I'm cooking and something's open, like I'm grinding like f like a it's like being in a flour mill. Like there's flour. Like you when I'm doing it, sometimes you can walk up and wipe your finger through it and it's like flour on your fingers. I was like, I don't trust any of this stuff. I don't trust any of it.
+
+[46:00] Like our salt and open salters and all this stuff, like all new. Yeah. That I wasn't buying whole new spices, just what I was gonna use that night. Right, right. You know what I mean?
+
+[46:08] Yeah, we bought a new toaster. That was the main, obviously the main thing. Do you have d is it like kosher? Do you have like dueling toasters? We just I just at home.
+
+[46:16] Yeah, our our kitchen's not big enough for that. No, we just do fully I'm fine with it. So the building where I live in Lower Manhattan was built for primarily an orthodox community. Uh-huh. But they didn't have the money because it was also built for poor folk.
+
+[46:31] And so like no one had the they didn't have like two sinks in it. So everyone used to have this like back and forth thing that they could like move back and forth. Yeah. But I don't think it works for gluten. It's more it's a religious thing, less a health thing, you know.
+
+[46:45] Right, right, right. Yeah, no, for this it's just easier for us to have just wiped it out completely. And but every so often, because like I said, it's pretty recent, we'll find something that's like, oh, we didn't throw this out. There's beer in our fridge still. You know.
+
+[46:56] Yeah. But anyway, the Milanese, it's gonna be a good thing. You gotta take one for the team, pound that and throw it away. I guess so, yeah. You know?
+
+[47:02] Yeah, and then I need to brush my teeth, you know. Yeah. Oh, it's that bad, huh? Well, I don't know, it's like it's all celiac is celiac, you know. Yeah, I had uh I s this is very stupid, but uh when I graduated from college, uh I had a couple of months between that and my job.
+
+[47:18] And so I think I said this on the air. I've di I I've I only did three things. I fried very, very hot peppers, habanero, and ate them. I worked on my 76 Bonneville and I watched A-time TV. Those are the three things that I did.
+
+[47:33] And it got to the point I had a fry daddy that was given to me by my now sister in law. And my now wife was like, you you have to stop. Not because like you should get a job. I had a job, it hadn't started yet, but because she couldn't kiss me anymore because my lips were so spicy. No.
+
+[47:49] Habanero is what were you I was just like I was like stuffing them, uh huh, deep frying them. I had trained myself up to the point. This is like 1993. I trained myself up to the point where I could just like fry them and eat them straight. Huh.
+
+[48:02] Like stuff them with things, fry them to like wilt them and like get the but the oil got super spicy, and then my wife couldn't kiss me anymore. Sounds good. Not getting kissed anymore? Uh the stuff, yeah. Habaneros.
+
+[48:12] Yeah. They were good. But stupid. It's stupid. Yeah.
+
+[48:15] It's just not smart. So I would say it's more weird. I don't know. One person's weird is another person's stupid. Oh, by the way, Quinn, you never said any food crap you did this week.
+
+[48:25] Did you do any food crap? Yeah, uh, my brother is catering a holiday dinner for some family friends. So I volunteered myself for dessert. So uh dairy free, which isn't too bad. But the plan was peach and pie, and they requested uh peach survey.
+
+[48:53] So I had to figure that out in the dead of Canadian winter. Well, that's why Pure is your friend. Cause they harvest that stuff when it's good. Yeah, I mean, we bought a frozen peach like at a regular grocery store. It was awful.
+
+[49:11] Yeah. That's why you gotta get like, you know, like I think all of those things are kind of heartbreaks. Did you punch it up with sugar and acid and then it was okay? That's how I usually fix those problems. Just punch it.
+
+[49:22] I mean, it tasted okay, but it doesn't taste like peach. Yeah. Peach is weird. Peach is weird once you remove it from its uh I mean, does artificial peach flavor really taste like peach? And did they really want peach survey or do they want haribo peach flavor because that's delicious?
+
+[49:40] Dude's got the best gummies in the world, Korea. Oh, alright. Well, that was very nice of you too. A spiced orange cervey. Like cloves.
+
+[49:54] Yeah, like yeah, we'll you'll do, you know, ginger, ginger that makes cinnamon with the peach and pie. Should work. Did any of you I'm thinking maybe Nastasi and I have had this conversation. Do any of you grow up doing the thing where you get like an entire container of cloves and shove it into an orange and then shove up shove a thing through it so you can hang the orange and then you dust the cloved orange in cinnamon and it smells for like like years. I just made one like three years ago.
+
+[50:21] It still smells great. They dry. So yeah, they dry down. I remember seeing this in people's houses. I always wonder what it was.
+
+[50:28] Yeah. It's an orange, and if you it's punctured so many times by the clove, and if you if you if it's not, if the humidity in your house is correct, which it usually is in in the winter in this neighborhood, it's dry, right? Then uh the clove I think is enough of an of an antibacterial situation that it doesn't mold or grow mold. It just kind of desiccates and turns into this like hanging, solid, awesome potpourri situation. Yeah, so we have like the current one that we're on.
+
+[50:57] Like I remember like my whole childhood. And we the one we have now is going on like three years. There's a name for it, but I recommend that everybody do it. It's not as cheap as I thought. Cloves aren't as cheap as I thought, but it's not that bad.
+
+[51:09] I buy I don't buy the fanciest clothes. I buy spice class, spice class cloves in the big bucket. You go to like Essex Market or like you know, some sort of like place where like bulk spice is sold, you get your clove that way. But I recommend fancy clothes. Yeah, don't use those for this.
+
+[51:26] That's like I got same purlap and barrel fancy cinnamon. I'm like clothes. Am I gonna go through really? In an orange? Many.
+
+[51:36] But I'm just saying, like, in my life. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I know your life a little bit, but I don't know like your clove consumption. Like you might be a usinal freak for all I know.
+
+[51:48] Again, I feel like I'm I'm I'm like I regulate clove content quite heavily if I'm doing some sort of spice blue. So you don't like clothes, what you're telling me. I like it, it just it is aggressive. No hot toddies, no mold wine. I use it in chicken stock.
+
+[52:09] I puncture an onion the way you're talking about with like two cloves for chicken covers. Really? Delicious man with clothes and the sauerkraut. You know what I like the clothes to get picked out beforehand because I don't like the Yeah. Not so much on the But the sticking clove and onion, that's old school.
+
+[52:27] Yeah. That's real old school. So it doesn't get like back into the suit. Exactly. So it strains out.
+
+[52:31] I'm a big believer in tying your your herbs. I always tie my herbs and then have the little string sitting on the side of the pot. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Tie the sucker side.
+
+[52:40] Tying over cheesecloth. Yeah, with cheesecloth. Then you have to strain the cheesecloth. Yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[52:46] You can even do bay leafs this way because if you take the bay leaf and you lay the bay leaf stack flat, then you put the string around it and you go. And when you do that, like some of the little pieces will shatter off, but none of the really sharp pieces are going to come out. Right. So like it just kind of cuts through the bay leaf, and then you could yank all the bay leaf, because nobody wants to like get the bay. That happened to my mom when I was a kid.
+
+[53:10] Really? Yeah, she kind of started choking on a bay leaf from uh prepared food from like uh the predecessor to Whole Foods. She had to go to the hospital. See? Yeah.
+
+[53:19] That'd have fish it out. It was scarring. Oh my god. Trigger trigger by she was off off bay leaves for a while. Yeah.
+
+[53:26] Maybe permanently. Well. I haven't seen one in that kitchen. In that in the house. Yeah.
+
+[53:32] I mean, like you like we consume bay leaves. You know, uh, do you remember that internet hoax where people said bay leaves don't have flavor? That still gets ongoing. There's a war on bay leaves. I think bay leaves are great.
+
+[53:42] Yeah. People are people who believe that bay leaves have no flavor, like what is wrong with them? Yeah. Well, they're having it's the wrong bay leaves. Well, you know who hates bay leaves?
+
+[53:51] Who? Ants. Really? Is that right? Yeah, great, great deterrent to ants.
+
+[53:55] Really? Yes. I appreciate that. Uh do you know what is a a deterrent to weevils? Was I having a weevil discussion on air last week?
+
+[54:04] We're talking about weevils, yeah. I didn't mention this. You know what is a natural repellent to weevils? Wormwood or artemesia. Yeah.
+
+[54:10] So like some people's, like uh, because they they they grow in a lot of places, like uh I think old school in China, some of like the the rice granaries, uh, they would like line with like straw mixed with artemisia so that the wormwood would repel the the the weevils. Which makes sense. Wormwood, I think is an anti wormant. And then you can build wormwood when you're done with it and make a um I was wondering that. I was wondering like how potent does that stuff say uh when um when it uh stops.
+
+[54:44] I'm trying to find in your book, maybe you can help me, Luke, uh the uh section with pavement because near the beginning. It's in the first if the pages are brown, so if you look at the book, yeah, it's one of the sections with pavement with the case. Anyway, yeah, here it is. So what's interesting about this one is that this is goes back to what I was saying where like this is before kind of the average band cared about food. Yeah.
+
+[55:06] And by the way, I've said this many times I'm gonna say again, I I accidentally got sat next to uh Malcolmus at dinner, didn't know who he was. And I was like, you know, and he likes food. Yeah. Yeah. But Mark is the guy in that band.
+
+[55:18] And what I didn't realize, he works at Superiority Burger. Yeah. I like t was texting my buddies and they're like, yeah, Mark works, Mark Dybold from Pavement works at Superiority Burger. I'm like, that's so crazy. Yeah, he's bartender and before at uh Great Jones for many years.
+
+[55:32] Yeah. So weird. I would think your worlds would have overlapped. No, I mean like it it should. Yeah.
+
+[55:37] Yeah. I feel bad now. One time uh in the middle of so uh at Booker and Dax, the playlist was randomized. I hated it. I hate randomized playlists.
+
+[55:48] There was a randomized I hate most playlists, whatever. It was it was r randomized and Dave Chang didn't used to allow anyone to change the like he wouldn't allow bartenders or the people because like he was known for his music taste. And so, but the problem is is that it was shuffle, right? And even now, I don't think shuffle based, I don't think even AI shuffle playlists are pretty are great yet, right? I mean, they will be soon, they'll be better than anyone soon.
+
+[56:14] But uh something from Slandan Enchanter payment came on, like you know, like I don't know, 40 million daggers or something like this, and it was just the wrong vibe. And so I killed it. I was there, I killed it. And I hate killing songs in the middle of things, right? But it just, you know, at like m you know, midnight when like you just had something bumping going.
+
+[56:34] It's like it's not the way and so like I actually got booed and I was like, Wow. I was like, listen, I was like, you need to suck it. I was like, I like I was like, I love pavement. I was like, I have listened to this album probably like more hours than you worked this year. You know what I mean?
+
+[56:50] I was like, but it's just not the right vibe now. Yeah, you know what I mean. I don't hate pavement, you know what I mean? They shut up. They probably didn't leave a good tip, which is not smart because I'm hurting my crew then.
+
+[57:01] Right. Or maybe they felt shamed and they left a big tip. I don't know, I forgot to ask. It was like 10 years ago, so who knows? Where do you think has a good playlist in the city?
+
+[57:08] Right. I don't know. I don't really go out that way. Who what do you think? Who's got a good playlist?
+
+[57:11] Like not that many play. I mean, superiority obviously has good music. Yeah. Ugly Baby, which sadly is closing, has like really aggressive, loud and good playlist. And what is your what did you well, first of all, what is your theory on so I have some theories on playlists, see what you think.
+
+[57:25] And I'm not saying that we have great playlists because the problem is that like either you're top down, which sucks, everyone. Here's something that I want people who aren't in the business to know. Everyone hates listening to the same playlist again and again. Yeah. Everybody in hospitality freaking hates listening to the same playlist over and over again.
+
+[57:46] But usually the people in charge are so hinky dinky about what's on the playlist that they and and also playlists are very hard to make, and you can't really, no one can DJ on the fly and work, you know what I mean, at the same time. So uh point is uh it's very hard to make a good playlist, very hard to get it going. My theory is that restaurant playlists are very different things from bar playlists. What are your theories on playlists? Yeah, I think that's true.
+
+[58:13] I mean, what I often say is that I love when I go into a restaurant and there's no music, but that's just because normally the music sucks and it distracts me. You need music at a bar. Yeah, but at a bar for sure, you need music. And it's very different from a restaurant. Because at a bar, here's my theory.
+
+[58:26] Ready for it? All bangers. All bangers. Because the the drinks that you have at a bar are only like like 10 minutes long. And so, like, if there's a big lull, you can't have like like, you know, like a slow movement while you're sitting there because like you're not supposed to be crying into your beer.
+
+[58:42] Yeah. We're not like playing like, you know, like old school country. Right. You know what I mean? Although that is a thing, but that's a different kind of bar.
+
+[58:48] Yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I sounds good to me. And hold on, let me rip through some stuff.
+
+[58:53] Uh TK, TK, wait, tickle ticklin now says, I'm wondering if I have a specific brand of hydraulic press that you like using for bar-related activities. Uh no. I I've the big one I used was from Harbor Freight, the 20 ton, and the small one that I have is just off of Amazon. I would get a double RAM jack so that it's uh so that you can get a high higher height out of it. I mean, I I price based on uh I do it based on uh on price.
+
+[59:16] Uh oh man. Uh Wenrick, I still use the same similar French fry technique. I gotta go back and look at all of my old stuff. Um, I have a special needs. Wait, next week we're gonna have to do some of these because uh I can't handle in 25 seconds a special needs dog cooking question accurately.
+
+[59:36] So I'm gonna have to get to the rest of the questions. I'll I will try to think of succinct answers for all these questions and get them next week. The book we've been talking about with Luke Pyanson is taste in Music, Eating on Tour with Indie Musicians. And we didn't really talk about the the basic thing is give the in in in very shortly give the spiel for well we're running out of time. Give the spiel for the for like why like indie musician touring the thing about and I didn't ask you how was tour because A, you're not tweeting right now, and B you hate when people ask you that.
+
+[1:00:03] Yeah, it's just this is a sneaky way to look at this lifestyle that is kind of uh never really been like updated from the almost famous vibe of you know sex drugs rock and roll. And we thought food was the way to like give a more accurate window into what we recognize as the culture of of touring. Uh so yeah, I mean it's a collection of essays, like you said, it's not interviews, but there's some as told buzz which started as interviews, and it's you know, 40 or so different folks from broadly the world of indie giving their perspective on you know feeding themselves on tour, but through those stories you learn what it's actually like out there. Right. How like well, how what a nightmare it is sometimes to get food after a gig.
+
+[1:00:44] Yeah, or the you know, wonderful, you know, wanderlusty stories that sound pretty attractive. It's not like that every night. But yeah, it's uh I don't know, the the old like the sex and drug shit is just boring. All right, on the way out, eat in the van or don't eat in the van. Out of the van as much as possible.
+
+[1:01:04] All right. Well, thanks for coming on. Luke Pineson, cooking issues. Thanks for having me.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City, New Stand Studios. Joined as usual with John behind me. How you doing, John? Doing great thanks.
+
+[0:21] Great, great. Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels. What's up? Hey, how you doing? We're on all directions of you today.
+
+[0:27] Everywhere, everywhere. Uh in the upper, upper left, Quinn, how you doing? I'm good. How are you? Good.
+
+[0:33] Good. That's better. Normally you're like, meh, still alive. You know what I mean? Good.
+
+[0:37] It's good. Good is great. Down uh on the lower left there, we got uh Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing? Good.
+
+[0:46] Now that sounds more like it. That sounds more like the like the crew that I know and love. And last but of course, certainly not least, Jack, Jackie Molecules. How you doing, Ensley? I'm good.
+
+[0:57] I'm better. I'm better than last week. Nice, nice. That's my. Ooh, someone just broke a bottle in the hallway.
+
+[1:03] Oh, and a little kid is doing what little kids do best, staring at it. He's got what this is just a little kid in a striped shirt, and he's le he's he's giving a serious nah me. Not me, man. Not me. Look.
+
+[1:16] I think we should go out and blame him. Do you wanna? You wanna go out and blame this kid? No. I think he's looking at his dad and his dad's ashamed and the little kid's heroic worship of his father's falling apart.
+
+[1:29] To be honest. Yeah, and uh who you're hearing is the incomparable none other than Joshua Davis Stein. Uh uh cookbook author. Uh children's book author. In fact, Joe Hazen had bought one of your books over the weekend, not even knowing.
+
+[1:44] I know. I was I was uh touched. Which one was it? What's my lunch? Who's my lunch?
+
+[1:49] No one gets it. It's called Lunch From Home. Oh, lunch from home. Who's my lunch? What's in my lunch?
+
+[1:57] What if can you write a book called What's in My Lunch? Yeah, it'll the answer will just be lunch. No, but you don't want to like so like what's what's more like okay, so it's obviously you shouldn't shame kids over their lunch. Correct. So you can't really talk about like what's in my lunch unless it's only positive.
+
+[2:14] Well, that was actually a challenge with the book Lunch from Home, because the whole idea is kids are bringing their lunches at I I worked with four chef chefs and restaurateurs, Nikki from Russ and Daughters, Preeti, Ray Garcia, and um Mina Park from Barbaro in Los Angeles. And they had like Kim Bop and they had uh hot dog and cheese burritos and they had locks and you know big old locks. And the idea was that the other kids were kind of shaming them. It's it's called a lunchbox moment. But then at the end of it, it turns out that the sort of the kids with the sandwiches, you know, you also shouldn't villainize them for having just a normie lunch.
+
+[2:56] No, you're villainized them for villainizing you. Right. But you can't, but there was like a very small kind of like a needle to thread to say, Yes, you making fun of their lunches is not right, but also there's nothing wrong with the sandwich. No, no, sandwiches are good. So you the book didn't want to come down baloney sandwiches of morons because you can't even have a PB and J anymore, right?
+
+[3:19] Actually, the thing that I realized during that book, especially in New York City public schools, is a lot of the kids are on free lunch programs, school lunch programs, and those are all sandwiches. Really? Yeah. They're they're sandwiches or you know, sort of run-of-the-mill normie food. So if you write a book sort of alienating those kids, you're alienating a lot of the, you know, you're alienating the audience that I wanted to communicate to.
+
+[3:44] All right, but since you have to make fun of somebody for a book to make sense, or for a life to make sense. Who are you making? You're making fun of the kids, not their lunch. I'm just messing with you. You don't have to make fun of anyone.
+
+[4:00] I'm just messing with you. Uh yeah. Just make fun of that kid who with the broken bottle out. Oh, what if they listen? Uh that's we're not streaming, they can't hear us, right?
+
+[4:13] Only if they're on Patreon. Oh yeah. And then if that was the case, they'd be fish bowling us. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[4:18] Okay, yeah, yeah. Uh so Nastasia uh I think has to bug out early. Oh, so uh, what was it you wanted to talk about before you had to bug out, Stas? Well, Jack and I, well, first of all, last night I was at a Christmas party, and uh a friend came with me and he didn't read what was on the menu, and he had the mashed potatoes which had lobster in them, and uh he went into anaphylactic shock, and I drove into the ER, and then yeah, and you're it's okay for you to tell this story. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[4:49] You did, so you did. So wait, so you and Jack drove into the ER or he drove the ER. No, no, I had nothing to do with it. No, no, no. I was I was I drove to the ER.
+
+[4:57] Jack was not with me on this fright. This was a this is outside of what Jack and I did on all right now. Was there a was it at a restaurant? It was at the Chateau Marmont, like it was at the holiday party there, and so he I don't know why he just didn't read what the buffet was. Well, who reads what's on a buffet?
+
+[5:15] Well, if you are gonna go into anaphylactic shock if you eat something, live a little, not a lot. Live a little, live a little, not a lot a little longer. And not long. So a question, qu a couple of questions here. Did uh you said he, right?
+
+[5:27] It's a dude. Yeah. Okay, yeah. Did he have an epi pen or no? No.
+
+[5:29] Souch. Did anyone have Benadryl on them? We went to CVS first. We lost the the lobby. Go immediately max time to the ER.
+
+[5:42] Go immediately to the E. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I know.
+
+[5:45] And he was like all puffy and his throat was closing, and we're at CVS, and he's like, Did you validate the ticket for the garage? I'm like, that we yeah. And so then we drove to the ER. I went through red lights. It was pretty cool.
+
+[5:57] Oh, and then uh Yeah. Man. Well, it would have been cooler in San Francisco, right? With the bouncing of the car like bullet style, like boom, boom. That would have been cooler.
+
+[6:04] But I'm sure going through a bunch of red lights in LA is also fun. How much honking? A lot a lot to go through. Did you roll the window down and scream at people for honking at you? Because I I can picture this kind of No, I was silent because I was scared he was gonna like pass out and like, you know, in the He didn't read the menu.
+
+[6:22] He should have read the menu. It's not my fault. You're running th so that okay. Did you know it had lobster and you were effing with them? I have to ask.
+
+[6:31] No, no, I would not F with that. I mean no, no, no. I know you have a long time. I know you a long time. Yeah.
+
+[6:40] It's kinda suspect, but okay. It's kinda like those things where like you push him in front of the bus, but you grab him back, so you saved him. One of those kind of things. Were you mad at him for for not reading for being so careless with his own health and the your holiday party? Yes, I was really mad.
+
+[6:56] Yes. Was there someone that you really wanted to talk to at the holiday party that you couldn't talk to because you had to go to that damned ER with this fool? And what's his name? Yes, but I did end up going back to the holiday party for the very end. And were you like, What an a-hole?
+
+[7:11] Or did were the people like, oh my god, what happened? No one noticed. So I didn't think that's a good one. Oh. Hey, did you know that Billy almost died?
+
+[7:21] Who's Billy? Yeah. Pass me some of that lobster. Pass me some of that lobster mac and cheese, whatever it was. You know what I mean?
+
+[7:27] All right. So now, did the guy go full Donald Duck voice? Because like when I'm about to die from uh I go full Donald Duck. Yeah. The nice thing about uh having a reaction that's closing your airways is that you go straight to the doctor.
+
+[7:43] There's no waiting around in the room. You walk up, you make the and you make that noise to the triage nurse, and then boom, you're in. You know how long, how long do you have? I don't know. I'm not dead.
+
+[7:55] I don't know how long I would have had. So like is that is it like a 30-second thing from breathing normally to like asphyxiating, or is it? It's a lot faster than you think. That's the danger about like any sort of like airway obstruction, is it can go from wow, I feel a little uncomfortable to toast really quickly. Oh my god.
+
+[8:12] That's what's so scary about it. You know what I mean? Um, but there's a difference between there's a difference between your throat closing where you literally can't breathe, but your lungs haven't, like your airways, your your bronch your bronchial airwaves haven't, and asthma, which feels kind of different because asthma, it's weird because you you like you're you don't sound effed up, your throat's not closed, but you but you can't l you literally can't draw breath into your body. Also frightening. All of that's right.
+
+[8:39] You know what I mean? Like all real bad. Yeah. But uh, but anyone that's ever had that happen to them, yeah, carry Benadryl in it. And at least Benadryl.
+
+[8:48] Because I carrying an epi pen, I get it. Pain in the butt. But Benadryl, I don't know if they make them anymore. You used to be able to buy Listerine strips of Benadryl. And it's like super fast.
+
+[8:57] You just put it on your tongue, and you get super tired really quickly, but like, you know, you you can loosen up enough to make it to the hospital. You know what I mean? I'm assuming you're not going to be friends with this guy anymore, but you know, some recommendations are in order. You know what I mean? No, we are.
+
+[9:12] Anyway, so then Jack and I last. Was it Pat? Was it Phil? No, it wasn't. No.
+
+[9:17] You would have known about that. Yes. Jack and I went to the opening of Mike Capafari's new bar in uh I guess Studio City or whatever it is. Your guess is better than mine. You're there.
+
+[9:33] Anyway, it was fantastic. Yeah. So Mike Capriferi uh is uh friend of the show, was on the show once, uh uh started Thunderbolt uh LA, which is a good bar if you ever go to LA great bar. Like uh very high end but very uh inexpensive. So like a lot of technique driven at like keeping the price low and the quality high and and you know puts his uh puts his uh money where his mouth is in terms of technique, not in terms of money, but also probably money.
+
+[9:59] Nastasia lives in Alano. Yeah. Nastasia, didn't we? Used to have like an amazing house that was made out of stone. Yeah, they sold it.
+
+[10:11] Wasn't it made of stone? I just remember that like I have a thin file of like nostalgia fact, and it's like you live in a cool house made out of stone near a body of water. Yeah, well, you can defile that. You can you can put that into the mental trash band. Along with everything else.
+
+[10:27] Along with everything else. Yeah. So uh by the way, also, like uh not not I mean, obviously it's more important for the person who almost died, but this is really kind of scary for restaurant people, too. You know what I mean? Like, like putting someone into like everyone lives in fear that they're gonna poison somebody or they're gonna and you know, you probably will at some point, you know, send someone into anaphylactic shock.
+
+[10:52] So, you know, it's not just you that you're hurting, but think of the adjunct that you're giving. Well that's why they ask they're like any any allergies or reversions. Right, right. But not at a buffet though, right? Yeah.
+
+[11:01] No, but they had the the menus printed out like right there. He it was lobster and the mashed potatoes, which I guess he didn't expect, you know. But the menu said lobster and mashed potatoes? Yes. He didn't really have a lot of money.
+
+[11:13] How many bites did he take? He like housed a bunch of it. Well, it tastes like seafood, too. No, it was very you couldn't. He was like, What is this?
+
+[11:23] When I sat down, he's like, What's in here? I could not figure out what's happening. That's the restaurant's fault. They're not making it wrong if you can't taste the lobster. I mean, at least put like a little lobster critter next to the mashed potatoes.
+
+[11:32] It's that dude's fault. It said lobster on the menu. All right. He's responsible for his own healthcare decisions. He doesn't have an epi pen, he doesn't have Benadryl.
+
+[11:40] He made you miss half the party, not that anyone noticed. It seems like it's solidly on him. Yeah, yeah. Okay, here's another thing. I'm gonna I'm gonna put this out there.
+
+[11:53] Quinn, this is a good lesson, because Quinn, right? Quinn, fusile, a few few chile, Quinn, but my phone calls him fusal, which he hates, so I'll stop. Anyway, yeah, uh message from Quinn Fusiles, what Siri says. Anyway, so uh Quinn's like, but the they could read the manual if they want to know how not to break the spinzall. I'm like, no, I'm gonna read the manual.
+
+[12:15] This guy didn't even read the manual on his life, Quinn. He didn't read the manual on his freaking life. And you think they're gonna read a manual on a on a freaking centrifuge? It's not no. Yeah.
+
+[12:25] Not gonna happen. You know what I mean? Like, assume there's no reading. So like uh we have uh uh an issue with the with the not an issue, but you know, it's a known thing with the with the unit that if they pump too much fluid into it, the pump we increase the pump speed so that they could they do more, but it also means that they can overdrive it and kind of bork the machine a little bit. Bork from Justice Bork who not just judge by who never got yet.
+
+[12:47] Bobby Burke. Anyway, so like we got to there, and uh and and if you pump it too hard, it ruins it. So we had to put a thing in the manual that says don't pump it too much and overflow it. And I'm like, that's not enough. We need to put a sticker, like a big orange sticker that they have to cut through the sticker, because hopefully, if they have to cut through a sticker that says, idiot, you're gonna ruin this.
+
+[13:06] And if it's orange, then maybe they won't. You know what I mean? Yeah, but don't you kind of feel like it's the baby on board problem that people with baby on board bumper stickers tend to drive more dangerously because they expect other people will defer to them because they have a baby on board? Huh. Cause if because like whenever I see a baby on board sticker, I get more aggressive because I'm like, baby's life no more important than anyone else's.
+
+[13:29] That's right. You know what I mean? Equal value here. You know what I mean? That baby could grow up to be a murderer.
+
+[13:34] At least with an adult, I know whether they've turned out crappy. You'd rather take a bird in the hand than one in the bush. A kid is a bird in the bush. You know what I mean? No, but yeah.
+
+[13:46] I mean, I probably shouldn't say that to a kid's book author. Those are my future customers. Those are my customers you're talking about. Yeah, you know, but they're they're always making new ones on the. And they could always become murderers, that's true.
+
+[13:56] Yeah, you never know. You never know. I mean, I guess an adult could all of a sudden become a murderer, but it's less likely. Luigi? Wait, what's Luigi?
+
+[14:05] Yeah, yeah. What's Luigi? Luigi the Mario brother? No. Oh, that guy's a lot of the colours.
+
+[14:09] Murderer. New York City. You mean like he's a good looking man? Have you not seen pictures of that man? What the hell is wrong with you, Dave?
+
+[14:18] Listen, okay. Uh this is not a political show, but we've gone into a news Khole since since the election. I don't watch anything. I don't see anything. I mean, you know.
+
+[14:27] But aren't you interested in abs? Abs of steel? Yeah. No, does he have rock hard abs? Oh my god, so hard.
+
+[14:34] Well, is that must be because uh nothing to do but plotting murdering people and uh I thought the guy had a back problem though. How does he have rock hard abs with a back bomb? Is he using some sort of machine that I should know about? Oh my god. Okay, I have to go.
+
+[14:46] Hi, everybody. Right. Bye, Doss. Bye. Yeah, nice.
+
+[14:54] Uh yeah, that's a weird case. I don't know. Anyway, uh I'm not gonna I'm not gonna talk about that case because like I'm gonna say something that's gonna get me in trouble. Yeah, I know, but I kind of want to push you to say something that you can do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[15:06] I get in enough trouble on my own. Uh all right, all right. So this is the portion of the show, actually long past portion show, but the portion of the show where we discuss uh things that have happened in food in the past week or so. So anyone, uh's already left, but anyone got anything good in the food land? I'll just quickly check on what Stav said about Mike's new bar because it really is awesome.
+
+[15:23] It's called Night on Earth, and he did this drink. Uh it's like by uh Studio City, so all the you know movie industry stuff. And he's got a drink called the Blockbuster where he actually has flavor call in it. And like so it tastes like movie theater popcorn flavor, but it's an old fashioned with overproof corn whiskey. It's very, very good.
+
+[15:41] I I love I have a carton of that stuff. The color is on point. Is this like does it have that color? Sort of. Well, the cognitive the bars was really like neon black lighty, so I couldn't really tell what the drink like color looked like, to be honest.
+
+[15:54] Any quinine based drinks to pop with that with the black light? Good question. I don't know. I mean, I didn't have all the drinks. Well, were any drinks glowing?
+
+[16:04] Not that I could tell. Then no. No, not that I ordered at least. Then no. Um, now, question on flavocol.
+
+[16:11] Since everyone should have it in for those who don't know, it comes in a milk carton. It comes in like a it comes in like a one quart milk carton and it's it's salt and yellow and butter flavor. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's the powder.
+
+[16:25] It's the stuff. Yeah. And you know, it looks like it was made in the 60s. They haven't changed the box since at least the 70s. But you can't cook with it.
+
+[16:32] Oh, you could, I guess. You could use it in place of salt, but typically it withstands heat, so you can stick it into like the whirly pop while you're making the popcorn. But the key is you have to also buy the butter flavored coconut oil if you really want to rock it, movie theater style. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
+
+[16:50] Because butter, real butter probably will burn or something, unless you clarify it. Then what are you? What are you doing? What are you even doing? What are you even doing?
+
+[16:57] When when the movie theater, if you're what you're aiming at is movie theater popcorn, do it the way they do with yellow butter flavored coconut oil and flavocall. They sell it as a package online, the two? There you go. There you go. Although it's like the uh what movie was that where they talk about the hamburger, uh, sorry, the hot dogs and the buns not having the same amount.
+
+[17:19] Is that fight club? I think it's fight club. Not having the same amount of well that you have to keep buying them because they there they'll be like a different number of buns and hot dogs. I believe that's fight club. And it's the same thing with the with the flavor call and the and the coconut oil.
+
+[17:33] That's how they get you. That's how they get you. You're like, well, I got more flavor call. I need to get more of the coconut. It's like it's like uh cereal and milk.
+
+[17:39] Yeah, they're like, that's how you finish an entire box of cereal in like a gallon of milk. Yeah, yeah because you have one so you get the other have one get the other you know what I mean it's the same reason that you sell for some reason you're like I'm not gonna buy Dorito so like for those of you that aren't you know my age in the 50s like when I was growing up we there was like a flavor of Doritos there was Doritos right and I don't know whether which who in the Fritolet Corporation but I believe it was them figured out that uh that they could get everyone to eat more Doritos if they just made a bunch of flavors even if no one ever ate those flavors because you're like oh there's four kind of Doritos what kind of Dorito am I gonna get not like oh there's Doritos am I gonna get Doritos or not because obviously now that there are four kinds you're gonna get Doritos. It's just a question of which flavor it sounds like dating is that how dating works I haven't I haven't like that's how dating works how online dating works. Jeez I'm glad I'm not a part of that. Yeah.
+
+[18:37] Subscribe to the JDS newsletter subsack.com and yeah so because you write what is it 80 books a year? I write 85 80 80 to 90 books yeah you make you make Robert Simonson look like he never doesn't ever pick up a a word processor right like he's the all that man does is drink. And write books about drinking books about it. Yeah yeah yeah he comes out with like a book every 30 seconds but I think you have him beat by like like multiples. Yeah except Bob's books are his books.
+
+[19:03] My books are co-authoring. Right. So I have no expertise but I just write. Well I'm gonna I'm gonna ask that so we still haven't gotten into what everyone's done for the week but I'm gonna ask this now because so like the two books that I was sent to look at that came out, I guess in October, because that was the big right. Yeah, one came out in October and one came out earlier this year.
+
+[19:24] The Calic the which one was the Callickinator? When did that come out? The Clickinator came out recently in October. Yeah, and what's the name of that book? Why I Cook.
+
+[19:31] Yeah. By Tom Calicchio. Yeah. So and why? Not the kid, I'm just messing with you.
+
+[19:36] Yeah. Like, you know, in two sentences, why? Yeah. He's got to make a living. Yeah, yeah, gotta make a living.
+
+[19:42] And he's good at it. Yeah, yeah. Oh, the short version, you know, if you read it, the short version is uh ADHD, and he uh like, you know, basically, you know, lost his ability to stay in touch with the stuff he was good at. Like he grew up being like young, young, book smart, and also like a really good swimmer, and the ADHD and the fact that he hung out around with people that took drugs and he ended up enjoying them by self-medicating, put him on a different path. But his dad, who otherwise was an inveterate gambler and maybe not always the most loving dad, but did love him, was like, hey, you could be a chef.
+
+[20:14] And then he's like, Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Was that an accurate portrayal of what happened? Impressive.
+
+[20:19] Impressively, yes. Yeah. Anyway, so uh so that book came out, which is a memoir. So now you have to write as him, which is kind of bizarre. This is kind of the problem of writing books.
+
+[20:28] And I've known a couple of people, you know, over the decades who like this is what their skill is that they can write a book as somebody else. What kind of a pain in the butt is that? I think it depends on the project. Like, um, that was the most difficult project I've worked on in that regard because Tom is not incredibly forthcoming, maybe is the way to say it. Like doesn't open up very much.
+
+[20:59] And plus he's already famous, so people know his voice. So you can't like pretend you can't make up what his voice is because other people already know it. Yeah, except the the the voice, the written word, the written voice is different than any other type of voice. I mean, he has other cookbooks, so people know his voice from that, but it's different. And I think that that that was also a bit of a challenge because to me, when I'm working on a m memoir in particular, it's like I want to make this a work of art, like a like literature.
+
+[21:29] I don't want it to just be a record of someone's the facts of someone's life. I want it to have heft and pathos and whatever. Um and that's different from how you talk, you know, like the kind of books I want to do aren't I don't want to say frothy, but they have some heft. So that was definitely a trying process. Now you gotta do a book on milkshakes, it's all about froth.
+
+[21:55] Oh god. Do it for kids. For kids, a memoir of a milkshake. Who's my milkshake? Yeah.
+
+[22:01] Black and white, a memoir of a milkshake. A memoir of a bipolar milkshake. Exactly. Uh so um so that was it. That was actually that was the toughest one I've worked on.
+
+[22:11] And you know, to be completely honest, um after I kind of turned in a draft, a couple of drafts, he and his wife Lori, who's also a writer and worked with him on his other books, kind of like gave it the Calico patina. I like that word, the Caligio Patina. Like, I'm happy that book is doing well. I don't think I nailed it, and like I relied on other people, most notably his wife, to bring it home. I mean, people but uh also like you know, I know I happen to know people in a very, very, very, very, very similar situation.
+
+[22:47] And like when like the spouse is a writer, there's you can't walk into a relationship that already exists between like you know, a the partnership of like a chef and a writer, and then be the writer who has to be that chef and not have there be like you can't. It's not possible. I don't think I think happily for us, there wasn't conflict just because I don't have an ego in that way. It's not my book, really, it's not my voice. They have a relationship which I'll never not only do I not want to supplant it.
+
+[23:22] That'd be weird. Yeah, but I also I just realized I think we all realized look, I can prov I can provide the armature and the overall shape of the book, but I need help with the paper mache of words, you know what I mean? Now it's not just a memoir, there's a a boatload of recipes in it too. Like every chapter has a boatload of recipes that are sometimes loosely tied to what you're talking about, but other times not necessarily what you're talking about, more like they fit there in the book in terms of what he wants to do, right? We say it's accurate, yeah.
+
+[23:56] Okay, and uh so you know the each recipe also has a bunch of you know spillage beforehand. Are you also doing that? How how involved do you have to be with or with the recipes in a situation like this? Involved. I mean, Tom has a wonderful um chief of staff named Maya Land, who works with him.
+
+[24:17] She often would sit with him while he came up with the recipes and she would annotate them in some preliminary form. Then I would take those recipes and make them publishable, you know, baseline for a home chef, because there's a lot of technical sort of specifications that you need. Yeah, because he's a restaurant person. Yeah, except Tom's recipes are first of all, Tom hates recipes, so even having him write any recipes was a headache because he'd be like, okay, well, like four clothes of garlic. He's like, well, depends.
+
+[24:53] Do you like garlic? You're like, no. Yeah. Okay. You know, or like whatever.
+
+[24:57] He's like, okay, so like two, like one bunch of broccoli. He's like, well, what do you want? How much broccoli do you want? Apparently, his brother wants less broccoli than he does. That's right.
+
+[25:07] His brother Mike does not want as much broccoli. Someone read, someone read the book. Amazing. So uh so yeah, so then I I'd do that, and then different books have the head notes of different books differ. Like this was trying Tom's a lot of Tom's recipes are and the head notes are uh by autobiographical, especially for this book.
+
+[25:31] And but there's not that much to talk about in the recipes in terms of like the history of this recipe, because they're not they're just like seasonal. Tom's the kind of guy where he'd be like, Well, why does this go together? And I'm like, because it tastes good. Like, okay. It's not like some books that I've worked on, it's like, okay, this recipe for you know John Balaya came from here, and this is a history of it, and this is why we use this and that, and that's like definitely not Tom's.
+
+[25:59] Right. So you're not having to pare down, you're having to beef up extra. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And do you have to be there for the photo shoot so that you can taste and be like, wait, the description you gave's not really blah, or not happened. I'm there for the photo shoots in most of the books I work on, but not for the tasting.
+
+[26:15] Um, by the time we shoot, the recipes need to be locked and loaded because the photographs have to align precisely with the recipe. So, like if you garnish something with dill and dill's not called for in the recipe, well then you have to either reshoot it or add dill into the recipe. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh Evan Sung shot that, but Evan is like such a professional that how long was the shoot?
+
+[26:42] It's a it's a very well shot, like, you know, good sized book. Fast. I mean, I don't know, a week less than a little bit. Oh my god, we had Katie Parla on the show maybe I don't know, a year ago, John? Yeah, about anyway, like a year ago.
+
+[26:55] And that uh Food of the Italian Islands, which was I guess her first totally self-produced book. Yeah. Which I we need to have her back on because I wanted to ask her how it went doing your own book outside of a publishing thing, whether she made more money, same money, like more hassle, less hassle, worth it, not worth it, because it's fascinating to me. The idea that you could just do your own book. Yeah, crazy.
+
+[27:13] But she is a machine. She shot that whole book she said in under two weeks. Yep. All over Italy. Well, look, when it's your dime, I think you're incentivized to do it quickly.
+
+[27:24] I just don't know how you could possibly do it. You know what I mean? Like, you know, because she's inside, she's outside, she's at this person's house, she's in this city, she's bookable. You know, she's got like greasy looking man grilling stuff over her thing, which was amazing. You know, I was like, I want that greasy looking man.
+
+[27:36] She might be effortlessly um elegant. There's some people like that, you know. Yeah, some you don't have to work so hard at it. I don't know. I mean, look at me.
+
+[27:45] I work so hard to look like this. For those of you that can't see what he looks like, it's because you're not a Patreon member. And uh John, you want to tell them how they could become a Patreon member? No, tell them how I look. Fantastic.
+
+[27:57] Um, Patreon.com slash cooking issues, you get access to the live stream uh video so you can actually see how Joshua looks. Um discounts like Kitchen Arts and Letters, discounts like Grovenvine and Glassfin, all these great people that we work with. So check it out. Uh Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Yeah.
+
+[28:13] And uh well, I don't think it's interesting. I think about your, you know, like the uv of books that you've written with other people is is it's all over the freaking map. So you got Calico, you got Kwame's book, which you did what, five years ago? Well, we did two. We did notes from a young black chef and my America.
+
+[28:29] Which was the one that you back that you were on right after you finished it on the show when we were back in uh Roberta's like five years ago. Yeah, six years ago. Probably notes from a young black show, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Uh yeah, you did uh another book you just had came out uh recent recently, the other one that I saw the the galleys for are Jong.
+
+[28:54] Yeah, right, which is gotta be a pain in the butt. Why is the why is the English writing of Korean so not what like an English speaker would you mean you would pronounce that chang? Yeah. Well. I mean, like why like why like why is it that since since in Korea they're not using the same alphabet we're using, why not just when you write it into the alphabet creative?
+
+[29:19] How would you write that? You wouldn't we just use an O. Just what? An O instead of an A? Jong.
+
+[29:26] Isn't that closer? Uh the maybe. I mean, I didn't come up with the transliteration. Yeah, no, I'm I I'm just I I'm I've always wondered why. Go true, like there's go to jong go to chang, yeah.
+
+[29:40] But Denjong. You know, I don't know. Like my kids make fun of me because I say Mario, and they're like, it's Mario. It's either. That's what I'm either.
+
+[29:49] I say orange, orange. It says orange. I'm from Philly. Orange. So it's like.
+
+[29:56] Do you are you a water? What what no? What? Oh, Jesus. Water.
+
+[30:03] Water. Water. You're not outside. You're not like a bucks come at wood. You're not a water.
+
+[30:08] I'm not like a Del Delaware Del Delco accent. No, but I just think that there's a pretty broad variance in terms how of how things are pronounced. Chong Chong is how you say it. It's not Jong. It's not Jang.
+
+[30:22] It's not a zh. It's a little harder. Chong. Chang. I feel like it could be written in our alphabet in a way that's closer to the way I'm supposed to say it.
+
+[30:32] That's all. I'm sorry. No one cares how I think about it. I'm just happening to say it. You know what I mean?
+
+[30:36] It doesn't matter what I think. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Chang. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, but I think it's also going to be confusing for people who read it who are like, you know, super not familiar, they're gonna read it as jang, straight up jang.
+
+[30:49] But that also doesn't kill anyone. Like, okay, read it however you want. All right, but anyway. We say in the book, we say how to pronounce it, by the way. Uh uh, yeah, pronounced like song.
+
+[30:58] Yeah. Yeah. Uh, right in the intro. Uh, but the the uh well, so here's a question you're writing a book about like the three main fermented soybean products of if of Korea by a Korean chef whose restaurant is in Korea in English for an American audience. How did that happen?
+
+[31:20] Uh well Mingu Kong, who's a chef, Kang, no, it's Kong, um has a restaurant in Ming called Mingles and Seoul. Um he is passionate about Zhang. He is friendly, or you know, with Nadia Cho, who I don't know if you know, but she's like a I would say she's like a fixer. Like when Eric Rapair went to Seoul, she was his fixer. When he wrote the intro to the uh the uh forward of the book, yeah.
+
+[31:44] Yeah, he wrote the forward. When like Tony was in Korea, she was his fixer. So, like, that's her role. And I think she convinced him to do a book in English for Americans. Yeah, here's the thing that I found very interesting about working on that project.
+
+[32:08] Zhang is incredibly important in Korea. It's suffused everything in the culinary culture, but it doesn't have that much respect. Like there's there. There's no there's no other Korean book on Zhang, you know. Huh.
+
+[32:26] So something that happens a lot, I feel like in Korean culture is something needs to be valorized. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it needs to be valorized by a Western audience, and then it will be re-consumed at a higher level of cachet. I mean, if outsiders are like, hey, what about this? Yeah, then Koreans are like, oh yeah, what about this? Sometimes.
+
+[32:54] And also to be honest, the cookbook industry in Korea and the publishing industry is very nascent. It's not flourishing. So if he wanted to do a book, doing it here makes the most sense. So I I kind of think of that book as like it's my words and it's his expertise, his passion, his recipes. He's like, he, as opposed to Tom, is like down to the gram every single time.
+
+[33:24] You know, he's just like a very he has a Michelin-starred restaurant, he's like a very precise chef. Is it your fault that Zucchini is in both books? I don't get to pick, but I would not have picked zucchini in either book. Because it's a crummy. It's the worst vegetable.
+
+[33:38] Crumbmy vegetable. Tom apparently freaking loves it. He like it's like aside is like, well, I could throw zucchini in that. I'm like, no, you can't. Well, he has a garden.
+
+[33:45] So at some point he just has so much zucchini. Yeah. You know. Just have someone bake bread with it. The only thing it's decent for.
+
+[33:51] Yeah. Although, like uh the one in the in the in the zhang book is uh is like super pretty though. Yeah. Although in the way that I read the briefly read like the actual mechanism of the recipe, and the recipe it seems to be rolled, whereas it's more of like a a C shape. It looks like uh like a 1970s like green and white rainbow, which is appealing.
+
+[34:14] Yeah. It's still zucchini. Yeah, it's still zucchini, although kanjong, which is what you mean. So the three changs are gochujong, which has a pepper paste, which is probably the most well known here, kanjong, which is an it's not an equivalent, but we might think of it like um a sh soy sauce, and tenjang, which is sort of like miso. And by the way, there are recommendations for American, d decent American, decent Korean versions of these that are available in America.
+
+[34:42] Yeah. I mean, it's really hard in America to get the like artisanal like the real good artisanal chang. Because it's not not exported. But there's things that are very um almost comparable. I mean, what what attracted me to that book mostly is um Chang has the ability to express terroir, which is cool.
+
+[35:09] Yeah, so he goes through this uh so in the book, one of the uh fun things is uh he basically says that he wasn't even didn't even, as you said earlier, like didn't even really appreciate it until he'd already been open for a couple of years and kind of had his eyes open to like how different and amazing this product was, and then a little after that met uh John Khan. Yeah, who and then did this huge tasting, and then later talks about this huge tasting where all of a sudden he tasted his childhood because and then it happened to be that this particular one was made right near where his grandfather was. Yeah. So like the idea that we that chefs and eaters and whatever have been sitting on this ingredient which is capable of so much expression, that touches me on an emotional level. So do you have to become an expert?
+
+[35:59] Were you already an expert? I knew nothing. I took Korean for two years to learn before the pro this project? Yeah. Wow.
+
+[36:06] Because I am like a white American dude who doesn't know anything about that culture. I needed to show like I wanted to show respect and I needed to show respect. That's for a book, that's a long game. It I felt very privileged to work on this book. And I feel like I also felt like it was my duty, my obligation, not in a in a heavy way, but in a good way, to it it deserves respect.
+
+[36:33] And like that culture, I I particularly need to be very careful, I think, for myself to take these subjects seriously, you know? Well, yeah, you also you have to know enough to put what he's saying in English, because you don't interpose your you don't you're not you don't put yourself into the book, you know what I mean? So you have to become an expert enough to be an accurate conduit for what the author wants or the other author wants to say, you know what I mean? Yeah, and also just you know, on a base level, any co-writing is relational. Like I need to build a relationship with Mingu and Nadia and every other team member on part who is part of that project.
+
+[37:23] Um part of doing that is like establishing that I do take it seriously. And I love learning languages. I mean, I speak many languages and it's like that's nice, yeah. Yeah. And so I I very much like that project, uh that process.
+
+[37:38] And when I went to Korea, I found it very helpful. Not that I could have like very long conversations, but you know, we were in areas and talking to people who it was strange that this like white dude from New York had come to ask them about these very detailed questions about Jong. You know, so I think it helped that I clearly was invested in the, you know, in approaching with humility. Yeah. By the way, for any of you who if anyone is listening from Korea, apparently there's a good niche for you to start making the pots because the youngest master pot maker to to make these things is like in their 50s.
+
+[38:17] So, you know, go for it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. There's a lot, I mean Korea, I think does a very good job of safeguarding their patrimony, but it is aging.
+
+[38:28] You know, a lot of the Jong makers are older, although there's new generations coming up, but you're talking about the Chong Dok, which are like the large pots in which the um Zhang ages. And there's a whole art form behind that, too. Every layer, every little bit, there's an art form, and there's artisans behind it. And to tie that into what uh we've been talking about, I don't know why, for the past couple of weeks on cooking issues, low-fired pottery. So it's like slightly porous.
+
+[38:56] And uh for some reason, low-fired pottery is the thing we've been talking about. I mean, low-fired pottery changdok is low fire, low, low, what did you call it? Low-fired pottery. Low-fired pottery because you need that exchange of air for the fermentation to work. Can I tell you a quick story about low-fired pottery?
+
+[39:11] Oh my god, I can't wait. So uh I had purchased a four-quart La Chamba, which is Colombian low-fired pottery that's black that you can put right on the stove. I was talking to Steve Sando about it because he was on, I don't know, pretty recently. And I was like, oh, so then I bought another one on eBay, and they said it was a six quart, but it was like it's like 10 quarts. It's huge.
+
+[39:34] So it shows up huge. And I don't have I'm in an apartment. Yeah, where do you keep it? I got in so much trouble. I can't.
+
+[39:41] No, no, I didn't break, but also each one's a little different, and this one it's so big that it's kind of tippy because it's only got like a little round thing on the bottom. So I have to make now like a donut to put it in, or I can never use it because if I put it on the table, you know, then it's like when it tips over, then it's basically lava all over everybody. It's lava. You know what I mean? So could you use it for houseplants?
+
+[40:09] No, no, it's tippy. I'd have to make a donut still, but I I want to use it to cook. I mean, like I like the idea of cooking and it barely fits in an ANOVA APO, like just like scrapes the top. Yeah. Like when all of the racks are out.
+
+[40:22] eBay. Send send it back to eBay? Send it back to eBay. It's a nice pot. So they they'll have a nice pot.
+
+[40:28] Yeah. Yeah. Uh low fire pottery. Anywho, uh, what else was I talking about on that? I forget.
+
+[40:36] Anyway, oh, one thing I'll have to say about that book. Freaking gorgeous. Beautiful. It's crazy, it's crazy pretty. Yeah, I mean, that book to that book was a challenge to get published.
+
+[40:49] You know, it's not like easy Korean recipes. It's not like homemade grandma's homemade cooking. Like, it's not Korean American recipes. It's like straight up, and it's not just like delicious Korean recipes either. It's like very focused on this one thing, Chong, from a chef that has no US presence, doesn't really speak English, you know.
+
+[41:15] Um, and I feel so vindicated by how much it's resonated with Korean and Korean Americans that they see something from their culture that is getting the respect that it deserves. And I feel like of all the projects I've worked on, I fought really hard to get that one made, you know. And I'm who'd you do it? Was that Hashet? Who did that one?
+
+[41:44] Artisan. Arsene. Yeah. Um and when we were on book tour, you know, to feel to see people, I mean, it's uh to see people come up and say how much they were moved by that and thank me meant the world to me. You know, that was that felt very good.
+
+[42:02] A little bit like when we did Kwame's book to see like kids come up to us, 'cause there's a young adult version too, and other readers and say how what that book meant to them. Or same thing with Lunch from Home or like any that's what I love. More book sales are great, but I've never had them. So it's like I like it when our audience interacts and you can see that you've made a difference in their life in some way. Sometimes you write kids' books not about food.
+
+[42:33] Bricks. Brick. Yeah. Brick, who found herself in architecture. Get it?
+
+[42:38] Yeah. I'm 'cause in architecture. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[42:46] Yeah, yeah. I wrote it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um Yeah, I have to say that like I l y this is a show about cooking. I like food, but it's just like one part of what I like doing and what I like writing about.
+
+[42:58] And definitely for kids, my kids' book stuff. I'm more interested in like the emotional journey of kids and having kids understand that they're loved, basically. This is why I'm bad at I look I could never write kids' books. No, I'm kidding. I wouldn't I wouldn't do that to a kid, I don't think.
+
+[43:20] Yeah. I don't think I would. No. I don't know. But like it to be but it's the same thing with like the adult books.
+
+[43:26] Like with the Jong book, yeah, the Yeah. It's about Zhang, which is great. And if you want to just read it on that level, read it on that level. To me, it's the idea that this thing that you thought couldn't you the thing that you didn't think was worth attention is actually capable of telling amazing stories and is worth and worthy of respect. That transcends whatever the thing is.
+
+[43:53] And it's more of a approach that everything deserves respect. And for those of you that are worried about there, there is, like I say, a buying guide in there for people who live in America. Yeah. It's like including brand names and etc. etc.
+
+[44:09] Yeah. If you want to read it on that level, go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. Uh oh, can I tell you a uh a Korean soybean pace story?
+
+[44:17] Oh yeah. Yeah. John, you're gonna like this one. John, you're gonna like this one. So we got uh DOH came into the into the place last week, right?
+
+[44:28] And oh my god, get this. So we had a private event on I forget, well, I'll make it up Tuesday and Thursday last week, right? They came on Wednesday. What happens? And you know, we're basically stopped service service, we're hoes during that time.
+
+[44:44] And I'm like, uh, what happens if they show up in the middle of a private event? Do you have to give that person like their money back because you've ruined their private event? Um I was at Danielle for a game dinner, maybe like 15 years ago. By the way, you mean game, the animals that are shot, not like the Super Bowl. Yes.
+
+[45:04] Okay, yeah, animals that are shot. And the DOH showed up for that. And the entire walk-in was pheasants that had just been shot by some like patron, I think that they brought them in. And we didn't know, I mean, no one knew. I only found out after, but then he sent his mini employees, minions, to the walk in, and they just literally they put all of the pheasants in the coat check until after the DOH left.
+
+[45:31] So you you have to you just keep on going. Yeah. Dang. Sorry, Danielle. Yeah.
+
+[45:37] I mean, that's a very Danielle thing to do. Yeah. Uh so anywho, so when I was in uh Seoul a couple of months ago, uh, you know, they, you know, the my my fixer took me to like, you know, some markets, and we went around and I went to, you know, uh, you know, a very nice paste joint. You know what I mean? And so I was tasting all the different pastes, and you know, I picked out, I was like, which is the funk give me the funkiest, the most like so they so I got it, I brought it to the bar because you know, that's what you do.
+
+[46:07] You right, John? You go somewhere, you bring something back so the kitchen can but you know, I don't know the name of it because it, you know, it was hand packed out of a giant tub into a smaller tub and handed to me, you know what I mean? So I wrote on it, and this again I think is okay for the show, fug and paste. Yeah. With a G's, that's why you could say it Fug and paste.
+
+[46:29] And so the DOH goes into our walk in, looks, points at the thing that says Fug and paste, and it's like, what's what's that? And then my manager's like, Dave, I'm gonna freaking kill you. Why did you label that thing? It's like, what am I supposed to label it? I mean, we know what it is.
+
+[46:47] I mean, technically, it doesn't have to say anything on it that the DOH understands. Yeah, why do they why is it their business? Like, what if it was like if it was meat based, it couldn't be in a certain place on the shop. But it's not. It's fucking paste.
+
+[47:02] Yeah. You know what I mean? Anyway. So how'd you do? We did okay.
+
+[47:07] We did okay. I think, you know, we had an equipment thing, so they're gonna come back, but we did fine. It's fine. It's all it's all fine. Like, you know what I mean.
+
+[47:13] What percentage of that oversight is for profit for the city, and what percentage is for actual safety? I think it's all for safety. I really do. I I don't think that they're I think that they're I think the average person is into, you know, I I I I think that look it's adversarial, obviously, from our point of view. And there's certain things that we are going to do that are not allowed that everybody kind of knows.
+
+[47:39] Like, for instance, like bartenders really, I guess should wear gloves if they're handling fruit and peeling it and doing all that. Ain't gonna happen because that ruins service. Yeah. Right. So, you know, that's a a dance where we're all breaking the rules, but the rules are generally there for a reason.
+
+[47:55] And so like I don't get bent about the rules, with the exception of like some of the stuff with uh, you know, vacuum bags and sous vide. Some of that stuff's just incorrectly applied science. But what I've always said is that it's not the it's not the role of the health department or any government agency to allow me to do everything I want to do or even allow me to do everything that is safe. It is to make sure that everything I do is safe, right? To our guests, right?
+
+[48:25] And so, like, you know, they need some rubric that allows them to ensure that everything that I'm going to do there is safe for our guests. And so, you know, some there are many things that are safe that are not allowed, some of which we do anyway, like peeling fruit for twists, which everybody does. Or like, you know, would you ever go to a sushi joint where the sushi chef was wearing gloves? You wouldn't, right? Because gross.
+
+[48:54] Ew. You know what I mean? And we all know that properly washing your hands is better, much, much better than someone who wipes their nose while wearing their glove and then goes back to cutting their fish. You know what I mean? So it's like uh, you know, certain things are these fictions that we all live with, but I I I really think that they are doing it for the for the right reasons in general.
+
+[49:15] I think if they were trying to make it like a cash grab kind of thing too, there'd be more DOH inspectors. I know from my place, you know, they came two, three weeks ago and they were eight months late to it. Right. Um, right. Yeah.
+
+[49:26] So interesting. Yeah. Uh Quinn, you haven't said anything you've cooked. We only have 10 minutes left. What the heck, man?
+
+[49:34] Oh, we have a caller? Oh, Quinn's gone? Quinn left. Oh, Quinn. Do we have a caller?
+
+[49:38] No, I thought it was Quinn. Oh. No, but if there is a caller in the last 10 minutes, uh calling your questions to 917 410 1507. That's 917-410-1507. Quinn left before he could say what he was doing, huh?
+
+[49:51] I didn't know he was gonna have to leave early. Because usually he's always has some sort of like sorbet-like thing that he's done. Yeah, he left early. He had to leave. It wasn't feeling great, he said.
+
+[49:59] Oh, man. Sent me a message. Uh oh well. All right. Well, if he calls back in the next couple of minutes, he can tell us.
+
+[50:06] Because usually we do all the stuff at the beginning like that. Yeah, but then we didn't we didn't get to it. Well, what was that note that he sent out the other day about gelato? Oh, yeah, his new book. Oh.
+
+[50:17] He's he's got it out, self-published. Uh new updated version of his gelato book. It looks great. I started leafing through it. And how much uh how much is this one?
+
+[50:26] Same low, low price as before? Probably I'm not gonna price. It was cheap, man. Yeah. It was cheap.
+
+[50:33] It was it was like, I'm gonna want to say, I'm making this up. Yeah. I'm gonna want to say 10 bucks. Oh wow. It's PDF, right?
+
+[50:40] Uh I I I think you could order a printed copy, but it's that would just be a print on demand. But so I think it was it was relatively inexpensive. Yeah. So Quinn's main McGill in the first go-around. I haven't read this version, but the the main thing was that he uh specs all of his recipes to be soft at like home freezer temperature.
+
+[51:01] Yeah. Not at dipping cabinet temperature. You know what I mean? Which is. I mean, gelato books are hard, man.
+
+[51:08] Oh, he's very opinionated about gelato. I think they're hard to sell. Ice cream recipes are at least from my standpoint, really hard to write. Because home chefs, it's hard to scale down for like ice cream for two. It's like, well, no one's gonna make that.
+
+[51:23] Right. But all of his recipes are kind of l like that, right? They're designed around equipment that people he takes like he takes a kind of professional mental attitude towards it in that, you know, he's you know, doing, you know, AFP, you know, freezing power things, and he's doing like, you know, like all these calculations, zillions of calculations. He'll buy all the ingredients and all of this, but he's making them typically in uh, you know, ice cream machines that home people could have, and and then you know, eating them out of home refrigerators and making like you know, smaller quantities. So it's kind of an interesting Lord's work.
+
+[51:59] Yeah, yeah. Anywho, so you know, whatever. He's not here to talk about it, but that's there. So uh what about you, John? You didn't say anything about the week, the week in review.
+
+[52:12] I have just been dealing with staffing issues. So it's been yeah, consuming on that front. So not a whole lot on the pleasure house of eating and dining and all that stuff. All right, all right. Well, let me rip through some questions and uh Josh, chime in here, ready?
+
+[52:27] Uh if you have any, you know, thing to say. But I we have not answered anyone's questions. Let's do it. And is this the last show of the year or do we have another show next week? It is the last show.
+
+[52:35] All right, so this is the closer. You're the closer. Yeah. Bringing it in strong, I have to say. Bringing it in strong.
+
+[52:41] So I don't want to leave any questions on the table. All right. Okay. Justin S. wants to know is there a way I can figure out the sugar levels in a non-clear liquid, i.e., when a refractometer can't get light through it.
+
+[52:53] Refractometer does not require light to pass through it necessarily. I recommend you get an electronic uh refractometer, which you can put opaic liquids on because you don't need to read anything through it. A computer is reading it. That's what I would do. That's the easiest way to do it.
+
+[53:07] Yeah, totally. And they're pretty cheap now. So buy a deal. You're like, yeah, I love my cosine. See, see, like, like, you know, with these guys, you're just like, man, I'm not gonna say anything.
+
+[53:15] You're like, yeah, right. Yeah, come on. Sounds like you don't need time. Come on every time. All right.
+
+[53:21] Uh uh, Wen Rickman wants to know my French fry technique. I'm still using the old Pectanex soak from years ago. That's still my only real French fry technique. I went and started doing it again for moisture management, and I have scads of information, but I never recompiled it into a new and different technique. I will say this there is no perfect French fry technique.
+
+[53:43] We have Quinn, is that caller Quinn? Or so we have a caller, a caller, you're on the air. Hey, this is Harry. Oh, hey, hey, what's up? I was just um coming across this impressed labs, these new uh stove tops with a battery that claimed to get, you know, way higher than gas capabilities as far as I guess BTUs are equivalent power and uh as far as you know, home use.
+
+[54:08] Didn't know if you'd taken a look at them, what your thoughts are. Well, so like they're still not for people like me, because uh so what we're talking about is electric stoves that have a giant battery in them, right? And the theory behind these electric stoves is that you can draw power, you you know, you can have less input power into it if you store in a battery for a long period of time, then you can draw it when you need spikes out of the battery kind of like a turbo, kind of like a or like a hybrid car. So uh, you know, and and so that's what the cause they know for a fact that the average person isn't cranking on their stove 24-7. And so they can store up for a long time and then pow it out.
+
+[54:50] But I don't I I could never get one because I only have single phase two tw uh single phase one twenty 'cause I live in a New York City apartment and I can't control the electric power that comes. I have sixty amps total of one twenty into my place. So I think like I think it's an interesting concept. Uh, you know, I think it's um, you know, the idea I think in the future, in the future, in the year two thousand, as uh Andy Rick richter on David uh corner brown used to say, um we're going to have machines that talk to each other enough that you will not need as much total power into where you live in order to accomplish what you need, because very few there's very few times that everything needs power at the same time and even when that's the case, they if they can talk to each other, they can share loads so that you're never spiking above. So I think it's a good idea.
+
+[55:40] I just, you know, wait to see uh people are gonna be freaked out, I think about having that big of a battery in their kitchen. But we'll see what happens. It's a big old battery. I mean, if I didn't need to replace the, you know, the whole I've got you know oven stove combo, so you know, these are only in the uh the cooktop version, so I'd still have to figure out where in the wall I'm gonna put a oven and so on if I replace that now. But you know, it it sounded like a good o you know, home battery option.
+
+[56:06] Uh yeah. Should we be able to get, you know, other appliances and other built-ins versus, you know, six grand for somebody to come out and just put a battery in your house. Yeah, I mean, because like they were theoretically saying, I guess that you could also like push from that battery back onto your into some of your other appliances. I forget, like, there's a there's a whole it's been a long it's been a while since I've looked at at their stuff, but it seemed uh, I think you know, Josh, you said this earlier, nascent. It's nascent uh proud of that word, too.
+
+[56:35] Yeah, yeah. It's ca it's it's it's coming. It's it's a good idea, and I believe that you know we're all gonna be storing power and then you know, dripping it out at the right minute, because I think you know, in the next f 15, 20 years as we electrify, regardless of what any current politician or person says, we're gonna electrify, uh and one of the main issues is there's just not enough copper running power to uh people right now. And so anything you can do to kind of ameliorate the problem that there's just not a big enough electric pipe going to, you know, power going to places I think is a you know smart at least gap filling thing. That makes sense.
+
+[57:16] I was curious if you got in hands-on with any of those. I uh they just came up the other day, uh new Bloomberg uh odd lots podcast had the uh founder, I believe it was. They interviewed him for a while, went into a lot of detail on it and uh, you know, way above my expertise level. Yeah. But it intrigued me.
+
+[57:32] I mean, like I'd use it if someone like you know, I would go to someone's house and use it, but obviously like I I I could never use one, but like I would definitely go to someone's house and use it. Thanks. Yep, cool. All right, let me know if you hear anything. Uh all right, back to French fry technique, real quick.
+
+[57:49] Um there is no perfect anything on Earth. When you go to Belgium, you see that they can make fantastic French fries because they are willing to do what it takes to you make fantastic French fries using only oil and doing it without even a water blanch, right? It's just a question of like what's the easiest way to do a perfect fry in a in an American kitchen in an American with American restaurant technique versus doing it in somebody's house, because that might be a different thing. Like the perfect French fry technique for your house might be different from in an American restaurant, the way an American restaurant works, which is different from the way that you would do it in Belgium, where they're like, well, the fries the most important thing, nothing else matters. Why what are you talking about that you have other things we have to make?
+
+[58:34] What are you talking about? You know what I mean? Anyway. Uh Eddie uh says, uh, can I make a uh diagram for how my foot pedal sink works? I know there are a lot of vendors that make them, but I seem to recall that the ones that I do can run from either a hand faucet or a foot pedal, and I haven't found that.
+
+[58:49] Eddie, I'll try to put that on Patreon. It's really complicated whereas it shouldn't be. It would take much longer than I have to actually explain how to do it. There is a way to do it with off-the-shelf parts. And uh, you know, if Quinn makes a note, we'll try to I'll try to put something on the on the Patreon.
+
+[59:06] I know. Well, it's Joe's trying to keep it snappy, keep me going. Um, see if you have something on this, uh Josh. Benjamin says, Hey cooking issues team, we have a special need dog, special needs dog who eats powder vitamins and nutrients mixed with low to no protein baby food, mostly fruits, to supplement his normal homemade diet. I remember Dave mentioning that a spinzall can be used to make baby food.
+
+[59:25] Well, Nastasia said that because you know she thinks wants people to buy it for baby food. I don't really. We're curious about how that process works, other than just tossing everything in a Vitamix and spinning it out. Or if you have any tips, we'd love to make batches of our own blends of fruits and veggies without having to use generic. Well, okay, so this is not for you.
+
+[59:38] It's more a center feature question. But what the centrifuge does is allow you to remove liquid. So if what you want to do is feed your dog very high solids, then the spinz all can separate the salads, but I don't know that your dog needs more solids. No. No, I don't know.
+
+[59:51] I mean it makes very, very specific. And apparently special food. And special food. Yeah. Agos writes in Do anti-caking agents that are included in table salt have any effect in baked goods, like making your cake worse?
+
+[1:00:03] Can they be tasted? I don't think so. I've heard people say that they can leave scums in things, but I don't happen to use it. I only use like diamond kosher salt. Even though they you see they raise the price by like a factor of three.
+
+[1:00:14] What the hell is that? Yep. What the hell is that? What the hell is that? All right.
+
+[1:00:20] Uh radar wants to know if I found any baking pans for pies that nest together to form the right gap for the upside-down blind baking technique mentioned in Monroe Boston Strauss's book. Uh no, I have not. They all they don't know. Yeah. But uh I'm still looking.
+
+[1:00:37] No, no. Rock Baker, has Dave ever explored the Ramos Gin Fizz in a practical way to create it uh with more than a 20-bartender shaking brigade? No. I don't really like them. So no.
+
+[1:00:47] What about you? I only drink Manhattan's. Why aren't onion rings priced higher than French fries at most casual restaurants? Because if they're making the onion rings, that's work, whereas even at most fashion casual restaurants that are decent, they're buying Simplot frozen french fries. You can't buy pre-frozen onion rings?
+
+[1:01:03] You could, but I think people are more apt. If you're gonna make one, you're gonna make the onion rings, and then you're gonna charge more for them. Good point. All right. So that was it for the year.
+
+[1:01:11] Oh my god. Great year. 2024. Woo! Couldn't have been better.
+
+[1:01:17] All right, Josh, thanks. Come on anytime. Uh cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking News. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cookie Issues coming to you alive from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City, New Stand Studios. Joined as usual with John Across me. How you doing? Happy New Year.
+
+[0:21] Happy New Year. Doing great. Yeah, happy, happy. Happy, happy, happy, happy. Happy.
+
+[0:26] Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels. What's up? Hey, how are you? Welcome to the show. Yeah.
+
+[0:30] 2025. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Starting off the new year late. Old school style bike would not dog. It's in fact, the bike, for any of you who can see this on video, the bike is here in the studio with me, which for any of you who've never been to New York, it's a bone of contention in New York.
+
+[0:43] People are like, you can't bring a bike in here. You're like, but I'm not a messenger. This is my bike. You can't bring it in. But it's folded, but it's a piece of jewelry.
+
+[0:50] It's a freaking bolo tie. It's around my neck. You know what I mean? But that's when I used to have a foldie bike. I would say that.
+
+[0:54] It's like, now you have to take the freaking service elevator. So thanks, Joe, for letting me get the bike somehow into Rockefeller Center, because I know that was a pain in the in the Patoodleheimer. We'll call City Bike and have quote unquote words with them afterwards. I should get Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing?
+
+[1:10] Happy New Year, Stas. Happy New Year. What would the incentive be for me to do that? Just the joy of yelling at someone on the phone. No, no, thank you.
+
+[1:20] It's true for the person who threatened the life of a UPS. First of all, you you wouldn't do it for me just because we're friends. You wouldn't do it for your friend. Oh, all right. So now I know that I'll never move your crap again for no reason.
+
+[1:33] Like the last time ever I pick up all your creepy parts. And your crap too, and your piano and all your stuff from the Connecticut. I believe I moved the piano and you spent most of the time laughing at me. I believe what happened is you spent most of the time laughing at me. And you got kayaks, free kayaks out of the deal.
+
+[1:50] Oh, yeah, we forgot. Oh, I forgot all the VR about all about the free kayaks. Usually, I mean, not always. Sometimes I'm right. In this case, I'm right.
+
+[1:58] Jackie Molecules, how you doing? I'm good. I'm good. I'm back in L. Nice, nice.
+
+[2:05] Upper left hand corner, Quinn, what's up? Hey, I'm good. Knew you're treating you well. Yeah. Good.
+
+[2:14] And special Los Angeles guest, Mike Mike, Mike, Mike Capelfairy. So we know him from Thunderbolt, but now Thunderbolt LA, not Thunderbolt, Georgia, the town that Thunderbolt LA is named after. But there's a new bar you want to talk about, Mike? I haven't been yet, so you have to tell me everything. Yeah, you gotta come out and visit.
+
+[2:37] It's uh it's uh funny sort of reference before recording. You guys are talking about Jim Jarmage because it's called Night on Earth, which is the name of one of his films. Um it's like up on Koanga Pass, uh sort of near the Hollywood Bowl, adjacent to Hollywood and the Valley and Burbank and North Hollywood, and it is like a 50-year-old strip malled classic LA dive bar uh that was sort of converted to a club before we got our hands on it, and now it is the sort of like 80s version of the future, dystopian kind of blade runner-y, neon demony cocktail bar that lights up in very fun ways and has a very cool sound system. All right, so I have seen Night on Earth, but in my mind, I'm only thinking of the LA based 80 horror comedy flake uh night of the comet. I assume they're different movies.
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+[3:29] They're very different. I don't know if it's like uh like 91 or 92, it's like sort of vignette y almost like four room style movie where it's like five cities around the world and it's a single fair with a cab driver in that city, so it's like a one owner writer in LA and um what's his name? Uh Roberto Gennini, ever in um in Rome. Very Hertzog too. Oh my boy.
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+[3:56] Oh, and Ron Hard Song's in a best voice. Best voice. Best voice. Uh yeah. So that is quite different from Night of the Comet, but have you seen Night of the Comet?
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+[4:08] I'm I'm not. I'm not. How can you live in LA and not see Night of the Comet? Stash, have you seen Night of the Comet? I don't know.
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+[4:15] Who knows? No. Uh so the theory of Night of the Comet, like Is this one that takes place there where they go into the cinema? 1984. 84.
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+[4:22] So the theory of Night of the Comet is like it always happens. The comet goes over, and anyone who sees it basically turns into a zombie. So people who like, yeah, I think they snuck into a movie theater, people who are underground are the people who are, you know, yeah. And then but some people are like semi-zombied, and then they end up being kind of the real bad folk because they still have kind of human emotions and interactions, but they're zombified, so they you know, they mess with you. Gotcha.
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+[4:49] Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, Night of the Comet. But it's like for those of you that like want to know what LA was like in the 80s in terms of like there I believe now, I haven't seen it since I was 13, right? But like uh I believe there's some like you know, like references to kind of pollution and the destruction of the environment, and like there's some sort of like meta thing there. So it's like good LA views of like smog because that's kind of when LA was really peaking in terms of like just miasmal hellhole of like, you know, when you used to land there and like think that there is like, is that a storm?
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+[5:20] Like, no, that's that's the air. That's that's just the air. You know what I mean? Uh yeah, I do. Yeah, all too well.
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+[5:28] Yeah, it's a lot cleaner now, though. I was hoping for more of like uh I was hoping for more of like the demolition man version of LA. So that was the future I thought we'd have. Yeah, when you would hope for the thing. Yeah, you hope we would have dem the demolition.
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+[5:41] I don't know. Flying cars and seashells instead of toilet paper. It's good. Yeah. Of all the movies with the word man in it, I always think of Repo Man.
+
+[5:52] Not Khan. Not what? Was that Amelia Westin's? Uh Repo Man. Yeah.
+
+[5:59] Yes. Yeah. First of all, like, not even my favorite movie of his, by the way. And P.S. I'm a huge fan of uh Emilio Esteves Schlock movies.
+
+[6:09] Like Maximum Overdrive, the I believe only movie completely scored by ACDC. I mean, what else do you need to know? Yeah. What do you need to know? Machines take over.
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+[6:21] Written, written and directed by Stephen King. And Stephen King, I believe, said, I was completely high the entire time we did it, and I probably shouldn't be making movies. I think that was his quote. Yeah. But I've seen it more than 10 times.
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+[6:38] And I made Dax I made Dax watch it too. So anywho. Anywho, all right. On to so Nastasi and Jack have been to your bar. What what what are the outside people think?
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+[6:45] You guys liked it, right? It's the best bar in LA. Wow. Yeah, I agree. So you're basically telling Mike that his other bar ish is crap a hall and only the new bar is good.
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+[6:59] To do a Daniel. No, it's not mine, that's Daniel Patterson. I I never say that. I'm happy if you like everything. Why do you put other people down here?
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+[7:08] We've been updating Thunderbolt so it doesn't fall behind the new bars? You know, you gotta keep keep updating everything so it doesn't become uh obsolete when you open new stuff. That's the goal anyway. Wow, I yeah, man. Man, that that that like worrying about that stuff gets real old when you're in your 50s.
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+[7:24] You know what I'm saying? Oh, God. Give me Ajita now. Stas, I'm s I'm saying I'm sensing I'm sensing some sort of like, did I do something? Did I did I send like a like a bag of poop to your mom or something?
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+[7:34] Like I'm getting some evil vibes off of today. There's no evil vibes. I'm trying to be positive about this. Like we love, we think it's the best bar in the world. No, in general, not just this comment.
+
+[7:44] The entire time since we started talking. I'm getting I'm getting some nasty vibes coming all the way across the country from me. I don't know, whatever. New Year's vibes. No, that's not true.
+
+[7:57] But I'm not gonna call City Bike, and I'm not gonna have you put down Mike's other bar. That's all. I didn't put down any bar. You did. You said he has two bars.
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+[8:06] And one bar was the best bar in LA, meaning the other bars clearly not. That's all right. It's fine. And it's a Daniel Patterson reference, which we've made on this on this uh show a million times. Anyway.
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+[8:16] Uh all right. So aside from starting new bars, or I bought a laser cutter. We could talk about that, and I finally modified my deep fryer. What do you guys have in the in the past? I guess it's like two or three weeks.
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+[8:29] By the way, if you have questions uh for the new years, you can call them in to uh 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507. Of course, you can call in if you were Patreon subscriber. And uh who wants to tell them? Jack?
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+[8:43] W uh John uh Yeah, I was I was in New York for a while, and uh uh apologies. I did not make it to John's place or Contra. But I did I did have uh I did want to shout out two places um that I checked out. Katana Kitten served crazy, crazy good drinks. Yeah, really, really good drinks.
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+[9:03] And then the second place I went was the Sunken Harbor Club, which um I happen to sit down, I grab a drink, and I hear the bartender telling other patrons about their fancy centrifuge. Um which yeah it's yours. Um I mean Garrett's a friend of mine, so yeah, it wasn't him talking, but um it's his bar though. Yeah. Yeah.
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+[9:27] Yeah, his bar. Yes. But but they were putting it to good use, making some some damn good tiki tea. I love I love Sunday. Anytime someone's like, I'm going to Brooklyn, where should I go?
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+[9:34] I'm like, have you been to Sunken Harbor? No. It's the only place I've ever seen. You've never seen me chug a cocktail at my bar? Not at that rate.
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+[9:43] You were they're shuggable. They are chuggable. His Pim Cups play. You know, oh it's Pim it's relatively low alcohol. You know what I mean?
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+[9:50] And it takes a Pim Cup, which is always one of those drinks that like could be good but is not. Yeah. And he made it good. You know what I mean? So anytime someone takes something that could be good but is not, and they give it to you, and it comes to you and you're like, I trust this person, but this is gonna be trash, and you taste it, you're like, oh, you got boom, it just goes down.
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+[10:07] You know what I mean? And then you have to get another one. Anyway. Uh yeah. That's how I felt about their zombie.
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+[10:12] I haven't had a good like proper zombie in a while. And uh style of drink. So it was good though. I mean it's just not like it's in general that's not my style of thingamajig, but it was good. I'm sure it was good.
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+[10:22] Anything that they put out, I mean uh I trust them. You know, I I I I I trust those guys. By the way, Contra, best bar that I have right now. Uh I only have one. It's definitely the best bar at 138 Orchard Street in Manhattan.
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+[10:38] The best one, right? I guess, you know, whatever, it doesn't matter. Um all right, uh so that's fun. So uh thanks for stopping by uh Contra. You know, you would have drunk for free there.
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+[10:44] I'm sure you paid money wherever you went. Oh yeah, I I did pay. Um it was a weird trip, man. I had I was not in control of everything, but I know that's like as soon as in fact I enjoy it. When I go somewhere else, and people are like, You have to go to X, you have to go to Y, you have to go to Z.
+
+[11:04] I go, I have no control, me, me. And it's so liberating to not have to worry about where you're going or like pissing someone off if just somebody else is in control. I don't like to choose at restaurants. I don't like any of that stuff. I hate choice.
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+[11:18] I don't have don't you have enough choice in your dish to everyone. Right, right? When it comes to where you're gonna go out, what you're gonna eat. I mean, can't somebody else choose, right? Anyways, my feeling.
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+[11:27] I hear you. Some people they love choice, right? That's why craft exists. No, right? Yeah, yeah.
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+[11:35] Um choice. God, choice is the enemy. All right. What about you, Stas? What do you got for the for the past three weeks?
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+[11:41] How was your Christmas, New Year's, blah, blah, blah? Um, Pierre Kim was here for New Year's, and he cooked a giant dinner in my house, and then he left all of the mess there. And then what? That does not check out at all. Oh, wait.
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+[11:59] That checks out 100%. Yeah. All right. And then he stayed at Jack's house instead of my house, and he was supposed to help me clean the place. But then what happened, Jack?
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+[12:11] You tell the story. Actually, I can't, Jack. You have to do it. I can't. He had an issue with the key that uh I left a fresh copy of a key and he uh had i it got stuck in the lock.
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+[12:22] And uh he didn't know what to do about that. And uh he had a train to catch, so he had about an hour trying to figure out how to get this key out of the door. Well, yeah, yeah. You know, I I gave him permission. I said it's fine, dude.
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+[12:37] I was like, just you know, lock the outside, get like it's fine, just leave it. I'll you know have the landlord come, and then what happened, Nastasia? And then I felt really bad for Jack because not only was my kitchen a mess and Peter never came to clean it because he was supposed to, you know, come for that hour, he was struggling with the key to help me clean the kitchen. I went to Jack's house and I was like, I'm just gonna see if this is a real issue or if he was sure. Don't tell me it was two seconds.
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+[13:03] Don't tell me. Don't tell me two seconds. Two seconds. Two seconds. Well, first of all, let me ask okay, now let's let's be fair to Peter here for one second.
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+[13:11] Not that that's my normal mode, but let how angry were you when you touched the key? I mean, is it possible that like only your superhuman anger was able to get the key out of the lock? Yeah. No, but it was it was crazy how it just came out. Like it was crazy.
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+[13:36] Yeah. I wish I could say I was surprised. That's amazing. I love that story. I love that story.
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+[13:43] Wait, I had something regarding a similar situation. Hmm. Uh anyway, regardless, I think what this goes to show is no matter how much you've had to drink, no matter how tired you are, do the majority of the cleaning before you go to bed. It's like it's just like uh, you know, uh you know how like uh you know how like people say, Don't go to bed angry, and then like you know, 20, 30 years in you're like, I'm just too tired. Can we just go to bed angry and wake up and fix this in the morning?
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+[14:09] But when it comes to like cleaning somebody else's house where you actually have to go back to their house again, you just have to power through it, even if you need to take drugs to do it. You know what I'm saying? Like pops and he was across the street. Jack but Jack lives close to me, so it wasn't like a big haul for him to like come back over, you know. Still just get the get that done.
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+[14:27] Why do you have to wake up into a crab hole? Oh, because he left the dinner early to go out, like until 5 a.m. But you can't you can't cook a dinner and leave early unless you're a hired hand. I know. Dave.
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+[14:40] What was the dinner? What was the dinner? It was um stuffed cabbages, okay. Uh acabuco and I forget what else. Why do you need stuffed cabbage and asabuko?
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+[14:52] Why do you need both stuffed cabbage and asabuko? That's like the time that I cooked two starches for Booker and you and you laughed at me for three years. The eggs, the egg you cooked some eggs and good, S. It was great. Wait, what are the eggs?
+
+[15:06] But like what do the eggs have to do? No, no, no. I'm saying you gave Booker a a hard boiled egg and a chicken breast for dinner, and I said, hmm, that seems like same thing, different format. Well, one's, you know, pre one's in well, whatever. Doesn't matter.
+
+[15:23] Does not matter. Anyway, uh all right, well, anyway. I'm sorry, Dave. I can't allow that. There you go.
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+[15:28] Good uh good stories, good story. What about you, Quinn? What do you got? Uh well, uh, for Christmas we did a I guess a fresh ham. Like it wasn't cured, but it was the actual like back leg of a pig.
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+[15:47] And then we sort of roasted slash braved it in a sort of Cantonese barbecue spiced uh broth. So that turns out pretty good. Did you underestimate it or did you cook it? Yeah, it's gonna take a long time. Like a long time.
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+[16:09] And also like it did. Yeah. It seems like a hard problem. You know what I did for the ham? You know what I cooked?
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+[16:16] You know who I pr whose ham I purchased? So for I can't remember, I think this was Christmas too, when like my parents were coming over, which they haven't been into the city since the pandemic, right? So my mom and my stepfather come in for the first time for the pandemic. And I'm like, you know what? Hell with it.
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+[16:31] I'm gonna go. I'm gonna, I was driving through Milford, and if you ever driving through Milford, Connecticut on I-95, not on a Sunday, because I'm almost always either doing it at night or on a Sunday. Honey baked ham store is open. So I'm like, I'm gonna get a honey baked ham. Because let me tell you something about the honey-baked ham corporation.
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+[16:49] They make a really good ham. The honey-baked ham for a city ham. I mean, it's not a country ham, it's not a cured ham, it's not like you know, cincohotes, like like, you know, iberico bayota fet, but honey-baked ham is a delicious ham. So I bought like uh a 10-pound honey-baked ham, brought it home. Here's the trick.
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+[17:08] Ready? You want to hear how I made it? I put it, I've I left the aluminum foil on it because it comes in aluminum foil, right? Then I didn't have a bag big enough for it. So guess what's made out of polyethylene, which is the same thing roughly as saran wrap.
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+[17:23] Trash bags. So I took a tall kitchen trash bag, unscented, unscented, right? Threw the ham into the trash bag, right? But it went and like spun the ham like a million times to tighten it up, like you do when you have something that smells real bad in the bag, and then stuck a zip tie around the top of it, threw it in the ANOVA steam oven at 135 Fahrenheit, which is roughly 57 for like infinity for like seven hours, and the entire thing was warmed through to 57 degrees uh uh Celsius, you know, 135. Perfect, perfect.
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+[17:57] Took it out, cranked my big oven up to like eight billion degrees, stuck it in there, it flashed off the outside, like took it out. Genius. Maybe the best city ham I've ever made in my life, and super easy. And what a pleasure it is to serve to get honey-baked ham off of the right off the bone. You know what I mean?
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+[18:18] Not to have to slice a ham. It's so nice. And then I had ham sandwiches. And then I used Steve Sando's Rancho Gordo black-eyed peas on New Year's to make the hoppin' john, which was a delicious, delicious. Although I did buy his, remember when he was on the show and he said Ojo de Cabra beans, he has Italian version of the same.
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+[18:38] I got them, and to be, you know, to pay my due reverence to genuflect to the bean, I did it like he said, and they were good, but you know what I wish? I wish I'd added stock or something. You know what I mean? I wish I'd added some more stuff, but they were good. Anyway, whatever.
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+[18:52] And what do you say, Quinn? Yeah, I had a question. If you're already going into a like precision oven rather than an actual water bath, what is the function of the bag? Well, you at 100% humidity, you're constantly getting like like uh like it's washing down. So like if you look into the tray in uh the oven when it's on 100% steam, there's like a puddle of stuff there.
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+[19:23] Because it's constantly washing down. And if you have stuff that's soluble on the outside, it'll just keep kind of washing stuff down and getting wet. So like it's better to just put a barrier between you, I mean between the atmosphere and the item, so that all of the flavor and everything that is in the item stays in the item and doesn't like equilibrate with the filth condensate that's going around on the inside of the oven. So in general, everything I put into the APO is completely encased. I made that mistake in the APO before and like gave my gave my food like a two-hour long bath.
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+[19:58] Yeah. And this is the first of all, this is the classic mistake people make with low temperature sous-vide cooking. Like in general, is they put too much liquid in the bag. And so what I try to tell people, but the problem is fewer and fewer people have had old school French food, right? So I'm like, like, do you know the difference between like a short rib and pata feu is like how much liquid the stuff was cooked in?
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+[20:20] And if you have too much liquid in the bag, it comes out tasting like beef stew and not like like a short rib. You know what I'm saying? And so yeah, it's like there's just a different feel to meats that have been cooked in excess liquid. And in general, like if you want that, you want it. And if you don't, which most of the time I don't, if I'm not looking, then I then I don't.
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+[20:44] You know, I've never had a sauer bratton that I thought was great. Speaking of meats cooked with like a lot of liquid and acid, because it's like all acid. Have any of you had a sauer bratton that that like kicked your behind? No. No?
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+[20:57] No. All right. Uh all right. So anyone else? What else?
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+[21:02] What else we got? Who we got? Me, I suppose. One to June, didn't say anything. One to Contra the other night.
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+[21:10] Lovely. Oh nice. Good drinks, yeah. One of Theo's uh experimental drinks, I guess, like the gran adjusted granny Smith with some dill in there. It was really delicious.
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+[21:14] Yeah, because we're running out of the tarragons uh uh out of season, so we're moving away. He he we had originally done a lettuce-based drink, and I was like, yo, yeah, that one's you know it's I love the lettuce, but it's a pain in the butt, it's pain in the butt, and it's not like because lettuce has so much water in it. And what makes it red? What gives it that reddish tint? Oh, you must have used the wrong lettuce.
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+[21:37] It just might have been. They use the wrong lettuce. Okay. They use the wrong lettuce. I mean, if you get the wrong lettuce, you know.
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+[21:42] Anything other than green is difficult because it like most things that aren't green that are our herbs have some amount of non-other color in them, and they end up going olive drab. So like purple basil, unless the purple basil is k then it it ends up kind of a gross gross color, which is fine if you can't see it, but not fine if you can. Yeah. Yeah. What about you, Mike?
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+[22:04] What did you do other than Biz NAS for food and or beverage? Uh I I just went to Mexico City for a week, which was awesome. So I got back last night and family trip or business trip? Of a human being family, and uh traveling with a toddler in Mexico City's like a lot. Um that was a lot.
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+[22:23] And there was nine adults and two kids on the trip. So it was hectic. Uh however, found some time to get some great drinks and eat some great food. And I I'm like not I'm not like a guided tour person, but um one of my previous trips I had taken this like mercado tour, and so I took everyone on that same tour uh and like convinced them all to come with me just so I could eat this one taco at the the uh Mercado Jamaica, which is a green chorizo taco, which is the only place I've ever had it, and it's like my it is like my platonic ideal of a taco. It's the greatest taco I've ever had, so we went back.
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+[22:58] So describe the taco again, describe it again. No I mean it's it's very simple. It is a tiny corn tortilla and green chorizo. So it's like the chorizo is some families are making it for like five generations at the same stall in the Mercado and it's like uh pine nuts, marjoram, uh parsley. She said lettuce but I think that might have been a might have been a translation thing.
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+[23:22] Um the pizza is like all ground up into this like bright green chorizo. So like lower on the pork content than most chorizos. That sounds delicious. Absolutely fantastic. And it's it's just like hit on the comal in a tortilla they use this like salsa verde and that's it's the only two tortillas or one tortilla?
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+[23:44] Two tortillas 'cause okay here's the thing like if you really wanted to make it the best like their tortillas are fine. Like first time I went they were better. But these hobbies have been made like probably the day before. Oh they weren't pressing them out to order? The move is the move the they they were the first time I went.
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+[24:00] There was like 'cause it was so busy when I went like six months ago or five months ago. But this time the tortilla was a little lacking. Yeah. Chorizo was still perfect. But like you just gotta go around the corner to the little tortilleria and bring your own like still piping hot tortilla and get it on there.
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+[24:17] Because that that's kind of what's the difference this time. But still great. Highly recommend actually I think you're better off mercado jamaica getting the chorizo from them and then going to the tortilla people and going that way. Probably smart. Yeah probably smart.
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+[24:29] I wanted to bring back some links, like freeze some links and bring it back 'cause I sell 'em, but uh they make they make links not just loose? Yeah, I mean it's like a it's like their main business is is carniceria. So they're doing regular chorizo, they're doing their family's like secret green chorizo, they're doing Sasena and all these other things. And then they're just like firing off these green chorizo tacos. It's amazing.
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+[24:50] So when you saw that all of the tortillas had been sandbagged, did you give a little stink eye or no? I I mean well I told you know uh I tried not to like build it up to the eight other adults that were with me that this was like my favorite taco ever because you know I I as the person from that group that lives in LA they trust me on taco. So everyone loved it and was super hyped and like I didn't want to bring up like uh tortillas. Who are they from? And it could be way better.
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+[25:18] Uh with friends in from Denver um Denver and then a couple friends in from North Carolina. We all kind of met in in uh Mexico City for a late holiday trip. Started the year off right nice. Be out of the country on January 6th just in case kind of thing. Yeah well nothing happened too cold.
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+[25:37] Uh by the way uh what is e we didn't get the n what's the name of the new place again? New bar called Night Unearth. Right. And where is it? Yeah.
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+[25:46] So it's on Coinga Pass. Uh so which is like it's kind of what the neighborhood is called it's kind of hard to give it a neighborhood because it's it's north of Hollywood button this isn't another place like Thunderbolt where like even the GPS can't get me there is it and it's like Yeah well no this is this one's great because you can find it's easy. It was right off the 101. It's easier to find and unlike Thunderbolt there's like 42 stalls in the parking lot. So how there is no parking anywhere in historic Filipino town or Echo Park where we are.
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+[26:16] Thunderbolt, there is plenty of parking at this bar, which is very nice for us who is in the car with us, Doz when we were trying to find Thunderbolt? Harold McGee, and it just boggled his food science mind of three. It's pretty hard to find. And like we put up during COVID, we put up like actual big like hand painted signs. We've never really had signs before.
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+[26:38] Um we tried to make it easier, but it was like the you know, it's one of those things. It says we're there, it says we're at Thunderbolt? We're on the highway, but it says we're at Thunderbolt. I don't know, open the window. Maybe someone will stick a drink in our window.
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+[26:51] Like it was like crazy, right, Stas? Yes, yes. The thing I like about Mike's bar is that it's in this weird area where we were talking about how it would be a place where porn stars from the valley would go drink after they're done with their shoes. Did you see any did you did you see any porn stars? It's good to start with a goal.
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+[27:12] I'm not I have not yet. I haven't well I wouldn't know. Is there a porn star industry card? Is there a porn star industry card that you could present for a discount at night on earth? I mean, I would love to I would love that and a Hollywood bowl, show me your ticket from your thing you went to tonight card for a discount.
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+[27:30] Like those are the two things we would like to incentivize. Well, you heard you heard it here first, people. Like what what kind of rate you're gonna find? You know, I think it's like it all counts as industry, right? Like we give industry 15% at Thunderbolt across the board.
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+[27:44] We can do that. We can do that in that on our own. 15% off of your already low low prices. Yeah, and it's it's very similarly priced at Thunderbolt where we kept the cocktails reasonable. And I will say it's in a neighborhood.
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+[27:56] Uh that's probably used to paying more for drinks, but we at least as long as we can want to keep the prices very reasonable. So if if the goal is porn styles, what do they drink? What do they drink? So, in other words, like if the goal is porn tags. Yeah.
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+[28:09] We have a like disguise, it's not called a porn stermartini, but we have this cocktail. Uh it's like, you know, clarified passion fruit, uh, pisco, cacao, a little vanilla, like basically carbonated porn stomartini. It's real good. Yeah. All right.
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+[28:25] Yeah, we have a clean one. Yeah. Oh, a bad influencer? Nice. All right.
+
+[28:29] But do you think that that's like so like is that what you think people would actually consume after a shoot? I bet you they want beer. Yeah, yeah, we have that. We have Montucky cold snacks in a can. I feel like that, you know, I don't know.
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+[28:42] I've I've never never been close enough to that industry to know. How's your canning set up at the new place? By the way. Speaking of cans, how's your canning set up? So okay.
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+[28:50] All right. So the nerdy part is we're not we're not canning at the new place for a couple of reasons. One, uh, we're like the the nerdy part of this for people who may know what Federbolt does and how we make drinks is uh that on earth we're we're three degrees colder on our like specialized refrigeration, so we're at 16 degrees Fahrenheit instead of 19. So everything is kind of skewing a little smaller, a little higher ABV. Oh, baby.
+
+[29:16] And so it it kind of like unlocks some stuff with carbonation for us. So instead of doing eight and a half to ten point four percent alcohol, eight ounce carbonated drinks, we're doing like eleven and a half to thirteen percent alcohol, five and a half ounce cocktail. Yeah, that's what we used to do. And because they're 16, we're not we're not we're not serving them on ice. So we found like Kinto makes this uh, which the wife keeps telling me is very phallic, and I'm just ignoring it.
+
+[29:40] This like double walled champagne glass. So it's like a champagne flute that we can freeze, but your hand never touches the place where the you know it's double walled. There's a vacuum in the middle. So we're not you're not warming it with your hands. So that's what we're serving carbonated stuff in.
+
+[29:54] It's a great, it really, really holds carbonation well, no, no real foaming off when you pour so we can be much faster with it, so we don't need the can for speed. And as far as like re like the cocktail menu zero water waste. So I think it's hilarious. Hilarious that you s that you like were a pioneer in lower ABV carbs, and now you're going back to the higher AB V carves. Well, yeah, I don't want to do the same thing five miles down the road.
+
+[30:19] You know, I think it's fun. Like this place is more of a party. There's no windows, it's like uh it's dark, it's loud, it's it's more of a party vibe. Uh it's a Mike, I th I think you should leave that booth, that like sexy booth where we were sitting without a light. I think it's great.
+
+[30:35] Okay, so I bought a tiny lamp for that, like a really beautiful like design lamp for the corner, and we installed it, and it looks fantastic, but it lights the booth zero. Like it did not accomplish at all what we wanted it to. So I don't know. I and maybe we'll keep it. If you think it's good, dark back there.
+
+[30:51] I mean, yeah. You guys are sitting back there, I couldn't even see you from the bar. I know, but it was so it was so great for us. We like it was so you need to buy the monitors from the Star Wars hotel and make it outer space. Wait, what's the Star Wars hotel?
+
+[31:07] The Star Wars Hotel. Yeah, they they went out of business after like a day and a half, like, but like there was no windows in the entire hotel, and you had like apparently like you had to book a certain number of days in and it was all you were in outer space. It was like whenever you looked at a quote unquote window, you were actually looking at a monitor that was like super high def of like space or like wookies or whatever you were looking at. You know what I mean? Yeah, whatever planet you were staying on.
+
+[31:34] Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, they're closed down. So yeah, monitor. I'm sure there's a dumpster somewhere. You know?
+
+[31:42] I got I don't have that. I don't have Disney money to to be buying this type of stuff. No, that's what I'm saying. They went out of business. It's free.
+
+[31:52] I'll take it. Yeah, it's like it's like outer spacey. I don't want to make it. Try not to be too on it. I don't want to be like a space themed bar.
+
+[32:00] It's just like kind of otherworldly in there. The whole bar is this like recycled recycled plastic material made from old appliances. It's like translucent blue and it's all backlit so the whole thing lights up and there's like animations that can do things. It's pretty cool. Yeah.
+
+[32:13] It is. You know what I like that. Literally very wild. So like I love and so like I I again in my 80s and my 60s confused, but like old liquid light show like oil oily, like Barbarella, like Dino Delorentes Sky, like oil light shows. Aren't those things sick?
+
+[32:30] You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. But I don't. I'm I'm thinking lava lamp in my head. What are you doing?
+
+[32:35] So lava lamp is like, you know, the you know, anyone could have version. But it used to be that people would get like all of these glass, like slightly curved glass the Joshua Light Show. Yeah. And they would put oil and alcohol and dyes and they'd spin them and they'd be like overhead projectors and stuff, and like they'd play behind Floyd and they'd play behind you know, all those. Yes, yes, yes.
+
+[32:59] I know what you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, man, they're awesome. Oh my god. They're so awesome. And then the cheapest version in the 70s when I was growing up was they used to make these like liquid crystal like fidget toys that you would play with that were just giant liquid crystals, and when you touched them, they would change color depending on the temperature and they get all swirly.
+
+[33:18] That was like the little kids' version of that stuff. Ah, I love that stuff. Swirly. Anyway. Alright, listen.
+
+[33:26] Uh oh, I'll say what I did real quick. I uh I finally got my 3200 watt deep fryer. So I took my cheap deep fryer off of Amazon. I remember last year, if you were paying attention, it wasn't getting it didn't have recovery time fast enough to fry properly because it was only 1750 watts. So I stuck my fryer on a burner.
+
+[33:45] I was gonna use induction, but the induction wouldn't register the pan, so I stuck it on a gas burner because I really wanted to cook. And I melted the entire bottom of the fryer. So I bought a new fryer, same exact model, and then I stretched and bent and modified it so that there are now two kind of two heating elements in that deep fryer. Two independent plugs, both with the safety breakaways, so it's all safe. And I plug into two separate 120 volt circuits because I don't have 220 in my apartment at all.
+
+[34:12] I only have 120. So I got two circuits, so now this little fryer, which holds a gallon of oil, is rocking at like third between 32 and 3500 watts, depending on what the voltage happens to be that day. It's creams, recovery time is pretty good instant, right? So I then built coroplast, which is the stuff they make uh like mail, mail carrying things out of. It's the corrugated plastic, the white stuff.
+
+[34:35] I made like a hut that fits over the top of the fryer and around it, and then I took a four-inch, which is relatively small, but pretty big for this, grow fan. So, like the stuff that the marijuana people used to use for like the vent fans, right? The four inch one, and then ducted it from the thing with a big like three 200 or 300, 300 CFM, like four inch fan, quiet too. Boom, straight out of a tube, out the window. So you cannot smell a thing.
+
+[35:04] And it's like dead quiet, and the sucker just cranks and cranks and cranks and cranks and cranks and cranks. So I like and cranks. I love it. I mean I fired it up because Booker was like, I need squid from my birthday. By the way, I'm not going to say how I know this because I'm not going to put anyone on blast.
+
+[35:18] But yes, it is true that if you eat too much squid ink, it comes out black the other end. You can color your entire insides from top to bottom black with squid ink if you consume enough of it. Don't ask me how I know. Anyway, so uh yeah yeah that's what I did. Yeah.
+
+[35:39] And I got a laser cutter. I haven't laser cut food yet, but I have laser cut things that I've used for food. Anyway all right should we wait should we do some questions real quick and then finish up on uh on the rest of the stuff? Should we do some Mike you're gonna you gonna join in on some questions? I'm I'm here for anything uh my limited knowledge assist with oh by the way oh yeah well we'll wait to see if we have time which we won't uh tomales writes in after a duck hunt last week the guide tasked with cleaning the ducks committed a horrible sin of breasting out the meat and discarding everything but the skinless fatless duck breasts oh my god what kind of guide is this what kind of guide what were they doing what is wrong with this person I mean they should not they should not be they should guide themselves into the into the dunce corner so working with what I have I recirculated some breasts at 130 Fahrenheit which is 54 Celsius last night and then briefly served them off in a ripping uh seared them off in a ripping cast iron pan maybe should have used a Searsol.
+
+[36:38] Maybe then it would have been better right stuff maybe they should have gotten a Sears all pro from Booker and Dax.com just saying makes everything better. We only have a couple left. Actually, Dave, we only have a couple left, and we only have a couple spinzolves left. So get them now because you know what the tariffs are going to be like. Well, we know they're gonna be worse.
+
+[36:57] We don't know how much worse they're gonna be. We know it's gonna be worse. Because I don't know if you guys are familiar with this, but apparently, if you put tariffs on goods that are coming in from other countries, it's the other countries that pay those tariffs and not the consumers. Incorrect. And also, I don't know if you know this, it's just easy as pie for small businesses like Booker and Dax to just switch their manufacturing of something like this from a place like China to the United States.
+
+[37:24] Super easy, right, Stas? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it's also super easy for, you know, like someone our size to just say, hey, hell with it. We'll we'll shop out, we'll shop out this thing that we only make 2,000 of a year and see if we can get all of the factories who are interested in bending over backwards to spend all this time figuring out how to build it in, like whatever, Thailand, Vietnam.
+
+[37:45] We can get it done, right, Sas? No problem. Yeah. You know, and the good news is, Stas, is that is that Quinn and you and I have enough of a cushion of money from Booker and Dax that we can just we can just go into a hole for a while and wait for it to become profitable again. Right.
+
+[38:02] Oh, wait, no, wait, that's no. That's the opposite of what we are. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[38:09] Yeah. Yeah. All right. So get them now because it is, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[38:15] It's not looking good. Yeah. Oh, oh, so this looking worse than normal. Okay. So uh yeah, well, you know, small losses are the new big win.
+
+[38:26] You know what I'm saying? You know? Yeah. Uh Jen said something amazing uh the other day. She was she was like, uh, she was like, not terrible is the new perfect.
+
+[38:38] Anyway, um so working with what I have, I research some of the breasts at 130 and then seared them in a ripping cast iron pan. Texture and dundess were perfect, but there's an obvious sulfury taste to the duck. I had a crushed garlic cove in the cast iron along with some thyme, but the off flavor didn't seem to be that kind of sulfur. Is there anything I can change with my process? Yes, yes.
+
+[39:00] Here's the issue. Duck, especially wild, but any game, but duck, even when it's like, you know, Long Island, like two-day old duck that like, you know, that they like, you know, fatten like as fast as can and slaughter as soon as possible. We'll go, I call it livery. You're I think calling it sulfury, but I think it's the same note if you cook it too long. So if you're gonna circulate, which I still do circulate, and this same goes true, by the way, for any like also things like uh uh tenderloin can do this sometimes, and it also gets fibry.
+
+[39:33] So it gets both fibery, kind of mushy, gummy, and uh and livery. And it's just you can't cook it that long. So you have to keep your circulation time on something like that under 45 minutes, right? Because you could probably do a little bit longer, but I've had liver and sulfury notes start coming in around the hour mark, so under 45 minutes. And the good news about uh something that thin is it doesn't take that long to heat up.
+
+[39:57] You can do it in well under 45 minutes. You know what I mean? Like something that especially the idiot ripped off all the skin and fat, like that thing's gonna cook through in probably 30 minutes, you know. And so just pull it faster and sear it, and you shouldn't have that, uh, shouldn't have that problem. But that is a well, well, I wouldn't say well known, well known by anyone that we trained back in the low temperature cooking stuff at the SCI, but it is a known fact, let's put it that way.
+
+[40:21] Balloon Knot, I buy potato starch from several sources, several several sources, gram for gram. They have different thickening power. What determines the thickening power of these kind of refined starches? You know what? I looked it up a loon knot, and I wasn't able to find anything.
+
+[40:29] Are you sure you're not buying potato starch from one person and potato flour from another person? Because those things are different. It is true that some places like China, Europe, they grow potatoes especially for starch, and they use refined starch from those potatoes, and there can be some difference in like the actual starch granules from variety, potato to variety. Whereas like starch, uh potato starches made in the U.S. is typically made from waste streams of potato processing.
+
+[40:58] So it could be different, but I wasn't able to find anything specific. So just please verify that you're not using potato flour. Uh MJ says, My girlfriend makes a bunch of soups and potatoes. Dave. Yeah.
+
+[41:11] I'm just wondering if you want to jump down to Tom K. There are some cocktail questions that might be more relevant to everybody, including Mike. All right. Well, every okay, hold on. Let me finish MJ.
+
+[41:23] That my girlfriend makes a bunch of soups and pastas with kale and an ingredient which I happen to detest. She claims there isn't another green that provides the same bite when cooked down. Is there a replacement you suggest? Maybe spinach. No, collards.
+
+[41:34] Kale, collards. Collards is better kale, right? Yeah. No? Dandelion greens, too.
+
+[41:40] They're more bitter. Yeah, a little better, but yeah. So much better than kale. Yeah. Charred.
+
+[41:45] Charred. Yeah. Either Swiss or not. I mean, you don't have to rep the Swiss folks, but like, you know, I would I would go with any of those collards, because collards are good. The longer you cook a collard, the better the collar it is.
+
+[41:55] And it's gonna keep bite, right? If you're into bite, right? Chard, yeah. What was the other one we said? There's another one.
+
+[42:03] We just said I said dandelion greens. Yeah. I mean, like if you like bitter, yeah. Mustard greens are great. If you like bitter, escarrol.
+
+[42:10] Yeah. If you like bitter, escarrel. All right. Now, where am I going, Quinn? Let me ask you a question, Quinn.
+
+[42:16] Who sent these questions? Why didn't you put the cocktail questions to the top then? Well, I did them in order of chronological. Boom! All right, what?
+
+[42:27] So, all right. So, what am I going? Lucas? Am I going to Lucas or something? Am I going to Lucas?
+
+[42:33] Tom K. Tom K. All right. I'm sifting through the questions. Hold on a second.
+
+[42:37] Tom K. I've tried making a few drinks carbonated with nitrous oxide N2O, but it dissipates extremely quickly, and the only noticeable result seems to be in the foam of the drink. Uh online, lots of people assume this is because N2 should be used, not N2O. All of this is wrong. Don't listen to people online.
+
+[42:52] But people online, people, people can you can write anything online, even if you have no experience. I can go online right now and tell you how to take someone's appendix out. It does not mean that you should follow my advice on how to remove someone's appendix. I think he's using the word carbonating to mean like solubilizing gas into it. I think it should is like misusing the word carbonating.
+
+[43:18] I can't tell you. I can't tell you. I can't, Mike. I cannot tell you how many times I have said nitrous oxide. I've been using it for decades.
+
+[43:28] And I say nitrous oxide, and somebody says, You mean nitrogen? I'm like, I'm pretty sure I know what I mean. You know what I mean? Like, why would you think I don't know what I'm talking about? Anyway, like what what other that I've said so far, like leads you to believe that I make common errors on the gases that I use and what they're called.
+
+[43:45] You know what I'm saying? Like, but anyway, this is this mistake in particular irritates me. And I just rewrote the liquid uh intelligence section on this because I'm so irritated by okay. Dave and friends, what drinks uniquely showcase nitrous oxide? Do you have any suggestions for nitrogen drinks, tips and tricks, do's and don'ts?
+
+[44:02] No, I don't showcase. I use nitrous oxide for nitrous oxide tastes sweet. Uh and it it's weird on its own. I used to use it in mixtures, but the problem is that in mixed gases, where you're, as Mike was saying, carbonating and also using nitrous, uh, because the pressures are so high, it dissipates very quickly, and so the effect is lost a lot quicker than if you used either nitrous alone, which is gross for most people, or nite uh carbon dioxide carbonating alone. So because I can't control people, I can't like you know, ventriloquist puppet people and make them drink the stuff that I hand it right away.
+
+[44:42] I've moved away from that. Um, you know, nitrogen, I don't really do the nitrogen thing. It's it's uh nitrogen is is is insoluble mostly, so it makes tiny micro bubbles. Think Guinness, right? So they're nucleation sites for carbonated drinks like Guinness, or if you're putting like for some reason, if you want a drink that doesn't normally have this to have a rolling head of tiny bubbles, you could use nitrogen because it is very insoluble and makes micro bubbles versus nitrous oxide, which is sweet and very soluble and gas uh uh fat soluble, and is used in whipped cream and to get high with Mike.
+
+[45:20] What are your thoughts on this? Uh yeah, so I'm nitrogen we use at Thunderbolt because we have an espresso martini on tap it is only nitrogen, it's not blended gas. We don't want CO2 in there. Um, and you know, of course, it's like sort of that rolling cascade like a Guinness. That's sort of the idea.
+
+[45:37] So we have a direct draw draft system, we pump like 50 PSI of nitrogen into a keg that has a diffuser stone at the bottom and then pour it out through a stout faucet and you get like the Guinness Cascade. Uh which is really the only use I have for nitrogen. And it's also like the only cocktail I'm comfortable serving at the temperature you can put a keg at without having like a really big custom refrigerator. So because it's served at refrigerator temp, uh you know espresso machine is kind of the only thing I think that tastes good at that temp so we serve that on nitro, which is nitrogen when we talk about it. Do we use that term for the thing that's a bit more than this other thing that pisses the hell out of me is that nitro can mean nitrogen.
+
+[46:19] Or nitro or nitrous oxide can mean nitrous oxide. So like I stopped using nitro except for I already had like uh you know nit nitrous infusion nitro mudling is nitrogen, right? So it's like it's completely confusing, right? To the average but it sounds cool on a menu, you know, like served on nitro, like people think that's cool. Yeah remember have you seen there's there's two separate there's two separate documentaries out on American gladiator.
+
+[46:48] Speaking of nitro. I've only seen one of them. But nitro got totally jacked on steroids. But you need to make a nit you need to make an American gladiator because that's right in your air time area, right? A little later, I guess it's 90s.
+
+[47:03] You need to make like a uh like an American gladiator themed cocktail for me. Not that I'm an American gladiator, but so that I can come consume it and pretend that I am nitro. Nitro. Yeah. And the discount code for them too.
+
+[47:16] Gemini. Yeah. Yeah. Um yeah so nitrous oxide, we're really only using for the what you have uh developed in the first book uh for infusion. Like, you know.
+
+[47:29] We made we made like the hot pepper texture for a long time. We were doing uh we did we're doing on our original menu, we had like a cacao nib into bourbon that we were nitrous oxidants using. It's great for cacao. Night nitrogen is great for pressurizing kegs. It's also it's inexpensive gas that you can it's inexpensive and relatively insoluble and doesn't affect the flavor.
+
+[47:52] Frankly pushing we also push wine with it, you know. The problem with nitrogen is that the problem with nitrogen is that the tanks don't hold as much of it as they hold of CO2 or nitrous because nitrogen doesn't liquefy. So unless you have liquid nitrogen and you're using the the the gas takeoff at the low pressure for your nitrogen, which is kind of too low to push because it's like 20 psi or something like this, um you're just you go through the tanks quicker. It's not expensive, but you do go through the tanks quicker. We have uh because we were like we knew we were gonna have this espresso martini on tap of thunderbolt from day one.
+
+[48:34] We our CO2 company also provided us with a nitrogen generator that pulls nitrogen out of the atmosphere and puts it into a holding tank. So we just pay monthly and we have unlimited nitrogen. Oh, that's that that's money. Those are really those are really common now. And we got a sick deal on it.
+
+[48:49] We pay 80 bucks a month for it, but now eighty bucks a month, and how much how much does it cost to run? I want that. I mean your cost your electric bill, it runs on just a regular 2010 circuit. It doesn't, it's not using a ton of power. And it removes it.
+
+[49:04] It removes the oxygen. It removes the oxygen. It's not compressed air. It's not compressed air. It is nitrogen.
+
+[49:08] How does it remove the oxygen? Do you happen to know how it works to remove the oxygen? No, I don't. I don't. I'll send you send you the link.
+
+[49:15] They all do it now. Air gas does it. New CO2, which is like the big thing. They have such a wild hair up their butts. They are not the friendliest.
+
+[49:28] New York City thing. There's two places. They're kind of tyrants and run the world and sort of have a monopoly. But that's who we have at Thunderbolt. We have a different company at night on Earth.
+
+[49:43] But uh yeah, the all the all the companies out here do these uh generators. It's a big box. You gotta kind of find room to mount it somewhere. And like it has definitely enough, it has enough it it like it pressurizes enough nitrogen. Oh sweet.
+
+[49:57] I mean it fills up we have a there's a big holding tank. Like it's f it's filling up a almost it's like probably a third the size of my 300-pound bulk CO2 tank. Oh you you have you have curbside CO2 too? Man. Yeah.
+
+[50:10] There is someone in the lower east side in there who has curbside CO2. Do you love the curbside CO2? It's it's the greatest, it's the greatest thing ever. It's six years in, we've never run out of CO2, we've never had to change a cylinder. I mean how we use a lot of CO2.
+
+[50:25] What was the ROI on that? Zero zero dollars. What? We yeah, we don't pay we didn't pay an installation. I installed all the lines myself, so I ran all the lines.
+
+[50:35] But yeah, I mean like I trust did the carbonated water system. But no, but they do like I mean the same company quoted us for 900 99 bucks to install. And that was with them running everything to like a front of your building curbside like port that they plug into. I will say the only time anyone anyone in food services died from CO2, it was because of uh the high pressure line breaking and a liquid transfer situation that I'm aware of. It wasn't asphyxiation.
+
+[50:59] No. I mean it might have been, but it was as a result of that line breaking. There was a person who died from, but I don't think they were in the I don't think they were in the service side. I think they were in the keg cleaning side. There was some remember how you used to be able to get kegs that were made of uh fiber cut like like carbon fiber.
+
+[51:23] Yeah. Yeah. One of them blew up when they were changing it. I think that's why you don't see them as much anymore. Kill the guy.
+
+[51:30] Oof. During the during the cleaning. Brutal. Yeah. Yeah, we have to have CO2 monitors out here now everywhere and better that way.
+
+[51:37] I mean that makes sense in the walk in. We have one uh because we keep our CO2 down in the basement but yeah I mean I I think the person who was killed when the liquid line went knew about it. You know what I mean? Wasn't the silent killer when this when the liquid line goes um yeah totally. All right let me see here.
+
+[51:55] Ray says hey everyone me I'm so jealous now man. Son of a gun. All right uh Ray says me and some friends uh for New Year's felt like it would be fun idea to find who has the best bar nuts. Curious to hear what the community here thinks is the best place uh and what are some essentials for a boy nuts. I'm gonna open Ray's question all the way to snack mix all right uh what what are some of the essentials also is their favorite mix of various grocery store snacks that y'all like ideally uh uh if they're at home then not having stale uh stale up super quick is always a plus two vacuum that stuff down in mason jars.
+
+[52:31] Like get like mason jars, put them in the mason jar, vac the mason jar down. They make lid connectors for mason jars that fit. I I plug it into my commercial vac, but they also fit on punier vacks. They keep stuff real good. Granola, snack mix, uh, wheat.
+
+[52:47] That's why I have no bugs on any of my wheat. That's why I can have like a hundred pounds of wheat in a regular apartment and and never, never bugs. Um, personally, I like having wasabi pee in the mix like the ones in the in the Chinese and Japanese grocery stores. What are your thoughts? What are people's thoughts on snack mix?
+
+[53:06] Stas, do you like snack mix or hate it because other people can touch it? Uh you mean at the bar, yeah. I'm not into that that much. If they serve you your own bowl, are you do you trust it? Yeah, that's good.
+
+[53:19] All right. Yeah, that's better. I was at a bar in DC that I really like called Astoria, and they they serve goldfish as their snack. I was just gonna say that, yes, goldfish. Uh, which goldfish?
+
+[53:28] Yeah. Pretzel, cheddar, or blasted? Cheddar. Oh, cheddar. Oh, Joe's got some goldfish opinions over here.
+
+[53:34] I like just plain blue. Celery salt. They make it oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember those. Old school, yeah.
+
+[53:40] Like Julia Charles used to snack on those on PBS. My favorite snack mix of all time was when the Marriott Grand Marquee in Times Square, back when they used to have a rotating bar. Back when you could drive through Times Square, at on the seventh or eighth floor, they had a bar that overlooked all the taxis and all all the traffic going through Times Square. Mayhem. And it would rotate it, and they had a bald-headed piano guy.
+
+[54:01] And Jen and I could not afford these cocktails because you know, we had just got out of grad school. We had nothing. And these cocktails were hotel cocktails, so they were super expensive. And I would go get a Manhattan and I would pound their snack mix and listen to the bald headed piano man play stuff. And so like I still to this day remember how much I love that snack mix, but I can't tell you what was in it.
+
+[54:23] But because we were paying so much for the cocktails, I ate so much snack mix. You know what I mean? I felt like I would eat my weight in snack mix. But I don't know. What do you guys got?
+
+[54:33] What else you got? What what's the snack mixing up? Like a I like a dive bar uh popcorn chain. Does that count? I don't know.
+
+[54:42] Like my in LA there's some bunch of the old dive bars have popcorn cheese. It's not a nut. What do you think about giving somebody nuts that gen? What do you think about like what kind of bar do you have to be where you can give someone in shell nuts and then deal with like the detritus? And first of all, you have to be a Texas roadhouse, like in the middle of the country.
+
+[55:00] Yeah, right? And just peanut shells all over the floor. Peanuts all over the floor. Yeah. It's like that's the that's sort of the motivation after.
+
+[55:07] Yeah. I like peanuts. You know what I bought? Uh so hickory nuts.com, Ray at Hickory Nuts.com has his new shipment of this year's hickory nuts in. And I bought a bunch of grade B hickory nuts, and they are really, really, really hard to crack.
+
+[55:22] I have a new cracker, but here's the problem I was thinking about I could bring these into the bar, and like it takes like 10 minutes to crack one. So if you were gonna only eat these hickory nuts, you would die of starvation. Like the way that they used to use them back in the day before they had like fancy nuts, is you just smash them into a pulp and then make a nut milk out of it and strain it. You know what I mean? Because you could not crack these suckers.
+
+[55:43] Uh but they're like God's pecan. But the point is, is that as I'm cracking, I realized you could never even like even as a joke, I couldn't bring this into the bar and give someone like you know, a pound of nuts and then wait for them for a week to shell them all. Because like little chunks of nut would fly into people's eyes. You know what I mean? And like end up in other people's drinks and stuff like this.
+
+[56:02] So you couldn't trust people with a hard-shell nut. But I don't think I think a cashew is delicious nut, but it doesn't say bar. Do you feel what I'm saying? A cashew is too soft for for bar, too soft. Delicious.
+
+[56:13] Too sweet, delicio. Oh yeah? I think they're a little too s I I love them, but I can that's more of like a dessert for me. Yeah. Virginia peanuts are a delicious nut for a bar.
+
+[56:26] You know what I mean? Pistachios, high end. What about shelling pistachios? What about sitting there popping pistachios? No.
+
+[56:34] My cuticles and nails hurts thinking about it. Huh. I mean, yeah, it does slow down a lot of work. It slows down your intake. It slows down your intake, I'll say that.
+
+[56:42] Yeah. So the question is is the function of the nut mixtachios if you're not shelling them, you know? Right, yeah, yeah. You just pound them. Like my question is, is the nut mix there to give your hands something to do because you're bored?
+
+[56:52] Or is it there because you're hungry? Is it like what is the it depends on what the function of it is, right? Isn't it keep you drinking? Isn't that like as as a bar owner wouldn't you want to do it? You know, if you if you yeah, but it also gives you gives you something to do.
+
+[57:06] It's the same way that like when I'm at a party, I drink a lot more than when I'm home because like I don't have anything to do and I don't want to talk to the people. Right. So my hand keeps on doing something, and whatever my hand happens to have. It's a fidget. Yeah, it's a fidget.
+
+[57:19] A fidget drink. I used to know the exact answer to this, but it's because uh it's because like certain pistachios were kind of red, but they would be uh some would come in discolored, and so then to cover it up so that people thought they were all the same, they just dyed them red, red, red. Oh, crazy. But I I it had something to do with like certain Iranian pistachios, and then when California started producing them and they didn't look the same, so they just dyed the hell out of all of them bright red and like my hands were staying when I was a kid. You definitely couldn't do that now.
+
+[57:53] I think at a bar, people get bent if their hands turned red every time. My son would love it. Yeah? Like some red dye number, whatever. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[57:57] Yeah. Yeah. Uh I mean, I'm not against food coloring, obviously. All right. All right.
+
+[58:05] Well, Ray, we can think about this more. All right. BKP twelve. I would love to hear uh discussion of non-alcoholic cocktails for the home enthusiast. Any ideas to replicate the complexity and body of a boozy classic cocktail home, i.e.
+
+[58:18] Manhattan Negroni old-fashioned, etc. Some of those are easier than others. Uh the carbonator cap and CO2 tank, well, that's not gonna help with a Manhattan or Negroni or an old fashioned for sure. Yeah. Uh if you have any good ideas, um, and then there's uh there's a thing about the Surgeon General, we'll get into that later.
+
+[58:34] What do you think, Mike? What do you got? Uh yeah, I mean, uh look, this is all this is definitely thanks to you, but we're using things like polydextrose and glycerin uh in our cocktails to really sort of give them more body. I think uh, you know, my favorite sort of like low-tech do-it-home thing is we do like a lichee daiquiri of Thunderbolt, where we just take the whole can of liche, liquid and all, blend it into like a fine puree, run it through a not so fine strainer, and then we add one percent uh by weight glycerin and one percent by weight rum extract, and that becomes like our base, and then we do two and a half ounces of that, three quarter ounces of lime, shake it up, serve it, and it's like a very good, very full-body daiquiri. It's kind of a slower sip.
+
+[59:18] Yeah, and if you're if you're if you're car if you're carbonating, like I would do what he says, get get some polydextrose and some glycerin so you can lower the sugar level and uh add something that like catches you in the back of the throat, like a tea or some wormwood tincture, something like that, um, when you're carbonating. But just lowering the sugar and adding a bodying agent like glycerin or polydextrose gets you nine-tenths of the way there, I would say. What do you think, Mike Yeah I think so I mean we do I I like things using things like virtue incarbonated stuff things that sort of bring acid and and and flavors you're familiar with and boozy drinks into it but yeah all right uh one more quick cocktail if we can uh Joe uh question for Dave and Mike have you guys played around with using Buchner funnels for filtration at all wondering if they'd work well for speeding up straining milk punches I can't afford a spinzall at the moment so I'm looking for the next best thing I would not use a buchiner funnel just get a milk bag buchner funnels are a pain to clean and they cost too much money I just I just don't see any reason to have one. You like I just don't see any reason to have one. Therefore like filtering precipitates out like you know on filter paper not for like bar I I think they look cool.
+
+[1:00:26] They make you look like like science but they what do you what do you what do you think Mike Okay shout out to Austin Henley at Cato who showed me this technique like I love spinz all I'm I I'm a huge spinzel guy I've used them for absolutely everything but I do not use them for milk punches because I have found the vastly superior way is to take a deep Lexan, insert into that Lexan a four inch perforated hotel pan, put inside of that hotel pan a uh linen linen tablecloth or apron and pour your milk punch through that you can do uh I don't know ten quarts at a time that way put a lid on it and stack those four high stacks instead of four high you can just have that running all night it is the clearest the most efficient way to make milk punch in my opinion. Yeah surface hyper hyper fast. Yeah lots of surface area to build a raft. You sort of have to run the first like three minutes worth back through the raft once you built it. But then you can stack those high, have them in the back of the house.
+
+[1:01:23] You're not having to hang a milk bag. Uh you're not having to leave like a fly trap out overnight. Everything's covered while it runs. And uh although although you're incredibly efficient. You're triggering memories of back when I used to do free saw clarification, and Nastasi and I had every freezer in the French Culinary Institute filled with hotel pans of grapefruit juice, and then the next day every single fridge in the French culinary institute.
+
+[1:01:44] Because we had to do an event for 1,500 people with freestyle grapefruit juice. And I wanted, I wished I was at that point just buy f buy clarified grapefruit juice from a company. I'm gonna give Mike this on the way out. I crunched some numbers, and there are a few liqueurs that make their own blender drinks without adding any uh sugar. You ready for it?
+
+[1:02:03] Strego. Two and a quarter Strega, one lime, a hundred and eighty grams of ice, hellfire bitters blend. Much better than you think. Much better than you'd think. Anyway, what do you think about that?
+
+[1:02:17] Crazy. Mass. Math. Mike, thanks for coming on. Go see uh a night on earth.
+
+[1:02:21] Night night of the comet. That's his third bar, hasn't opened yet. Night on Earth in LA. Happy New Year's cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Marrow, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan Rock. Doing great? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[0:21] Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.
+
+[0:24] All right. Got Joe Hazenrock in the panels. What's up? Hey, how are you doing? No uh no city bike today, huh?
+
+[0:29] Yeah. Well, not in the studio. Oh, in the state. Yeah, no, no. We thought maybe you might bring the whole dock in today.
+
+[0:36] Yeah, the nice thing about the winter time is that not as many people bike to work, so these docks are actually not as jammed up as long as the bike's working. Uh in the upper left, Quinn, you there? Yeah, I'm here. Quinning it up. Everything Quinny Quinn.
+
+[0:53] Everything is green, right? All right, good. And uh with Trepidation, we ha in Los Angeles, uh, we got uh Jackie Molecules. Yo, yep. Um I'm here.
+
+[1:04] Nice. And uh Nastasi the Hammer Lopez. Hello. Hey, so uh before we get into it, uh how's the how are the conditions on the ground today? Is it getting better or worse right now?
+
+[1:17] It seems like it's getting better, but every day it's sort of another scare. I mean, uh we don't have the winds that we did last week. Right. Not quite at least. Yeah.
+
+[1:30] I mean, I think it's supposed to be today that they do. Um it's been I don't know, it's been crazy. We both have so many friends that lost homes and uh it's just a really psychedelically weird time here. And the the the Altadina fire is the one that's closest to you guys, right? Uh yeah, and then there was a Hollywood fire that kind of spooked everybody for a night that was very close.
+
+[1:54] I mean, you know, even even uh the one in Pasadena when Stas and I went to go um visit Mike's bar, we we we could see burning flames from the highway. It was very weird. Uh the Palisades. Palisades, that's I meant, sorry. Yeah.
+
+[2:11] Huh. And uh and what's the air like there to breathe? I mean now. Yeah. That's what they say.
+
+[2:19] I mean, but they're also it's like it's like sort of the same thing with um 911 where somebody buildings go up and it's like, you know, you don't know what other stuff is in the air. Right. Other than regular wildfire smoke. So I mean Yeah. It did smell on 911 it it smelled different.
+
+[2:34] You know what I mean? It wasn't like normal. Yeah. Um did the I mean, because I only the only reference I have for a big fires like that is you know, the ones that were hundreds of miles away in Canada that affected us here in New York, and those even hundreds of miles away choked us. Like, you know, everything turned black from soot.
+
+[2:51] You couldn't really go outside for too long without a mask. I mean, I hope it's not that bad over there. Yeah, it doesn't seem like it. I mean last yeah. Yeah, last week was like that.
+
+[3:03] Uh awful. Well, luckily my air purifier my air purifiers just showed up. Perfect time. You you didn't you didn't get one uh like uh like you didn't buy that first post-pandemic or pre you know pandemic era air purifiers and everyone bought them? I had one, but it wasn't enough to cover this whole apartment since we both uh my girlfriend and I both work from home.
+
+[3:26] So, you know. So which one of you got the clean air? Did you give her the clean air or did you keep the clean air? No, she got the clean air. Oh, nice.
+
+[3:35] That's nice. Good man. Good man. Uh or like the idea that one side of your apartment is clean and the other side's like a like a soot factory. It's anyway.
+
+[3:44] Um are uh are people going out still or no? Like what's it, what's it like? Are people still trying to go about their normal business or are they hunkered down? Yeah, I think so, right? I'm I'm seeing more people trying to.
+
+[3:58] Yeah, we ran out. Yeah. We did. Yeah. And well, was it was it fun?
+
+[4:03] What do you what do you got for me in the way of food? Now now back to your f food, uh, food, food phenalia. Would he did you eat and or drink and or cook anything of import or interest in the past week or so? Yeah. And then we went to what was the cuisine?
+
+[4:23] Indonesian. Yeah, I wasn't even. You guys are just going through zombie life. Yeah, you're going through zombie life. I understand it.
+
+[4:34] Yeah, yeah. I get it. Yep. Yep. Yeah, I get it.
+
+[4:37] Uh yeah. Anyway. Uh Nastasia, by the way, Jack, is trying to convince me to go out to Los Angeles in a in a couple of weeks to do something. Yeah, dude. I know.
+
+[4:47] I I told Jack, and uh, Jack said that he would even DJ at the at the thing that you might bartend at. But I also know, Dave, that getting you to come to LA or do anything with me is really hard. What? As opposed to with other people. Just so that that first of all, Nastasia, that's the biggest load of horse crap, tiniest violence situation.
+
+[5:09] It really is. When was it? When have I said when have I said no? Nastasia, like when some people say, Here's here is a budget and a brick of money. Come do X, Y, or Z, we're like, okay, I will take said budget and said brick of money and come do XYZ.
+
+[5:25] Like, I don't go anywhere, like just at the drop of a hat. That's not my life. I don't just like pick up sticks and go and go do things ever with anyone. No one. No one.
+
+[5:36] In fact, like it's only the past year that I started taking like normal, like, like, you know, where I go pla I I just don't do it with anyone. I don't know why you think that it's somehow a slight against you. Like, who on earth call in anyone that knows me or has ever met me, ever. Any human being who can hear my voice, call in too, if you're a Patreon listener, to 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507.
+
+[6:01] And tell me a time that I have gone and done anything with anyone anywhere when it wasn't for business. All right. Uh right? I mean, John, have you ever known me to do that? I'm staying out of this one.
+
+[6:16] Yeah. Yeah. Not getting in between you two. But I mean, you did come to see me. It's true.
+
+[6:22] Right, but I was visiting a coworker, and it was for one day, and it was on the way to Alaska. And the Canadian officials at the border were real buttheads. And I'm not ever looking forward to meeting those people again. You're going to visit a guy for one day? What are you crazy?
+
+[6:41] On Vancouver Island? Anyway. Uh yeah. I forget what I snuck into Canada that I wasn't allowed to sneak in. There's something.
+
+[6:50] Some food stuff. Oh, the sandwich. Oh, the sandwich. Ooh, the contraband sandwich. What was it?
+
+[6:58] It was a muffaletta from New Orleans, right? Yeah. Yeah. Was that any good? Do you like muffaletta?
+
+[7:06] Yeah, I uh my my brother and and and dad. I think we're over here. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's a very specific sandwich designed for working folk and meant to keep for a long time, which is why it's the ideal thing to bring you know on a on a cross. In fact, what do you call it when you're across one country border?
+
+[7:23] It's not cross country, it's I don't know. Uh so yeah, Stas, if we can make it work, we can we can make it work. You and I have to talk about the other garbage. Uh all right, so nondescript, maybe Indonesian food wasn't bad enough to you for you to remember, wasn't good enough for you to remember, and Mike's bar, which I'm assuming you liked again. Yeah.
+
+[7:46] Oh yeah, it's the best. Yeah. Uh what about you, Quinny Quinn? What do you got for me? Uh actually this week I made some hazelnut butter, all local hazelnut.
+
+[8:00] We roasted them fresh and ground them in my, you know, conch slash uh wet mill, however you want to refer to it. The wet mill wet mill sounds good. Yeah, and that's what it is, but it sounds real gross. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[8:16] John, are you pretty good? Are you familiar with uh I know you are because you're an art history person. Marcel Duchamp? Of course. And uh the famed uh painting on on multiple sheets of glass called grinding your chocolate.
+
+[8:29] Yeah. Yeah. So so for those of you that don't know, like uh the stuff that what Quinn is using is a a repurpose and I think rebranded because you don't have one that's branded to make idli, right? A Indian uh like made wet grinder for things like idley batter and other wet things where you take pulses, you soak them, you put them there with water, mmm, two stuff, two or three stones, depending on which one you have. Grinding forever, also great for mustard, but it've been repurposed recently, i.e.
+
+[8:56] the past 15 years for uh making chocolate at home, right? Right, right? You with me? Stas and I have had several, whatever. Mine was like branded for chocolate.
+
+[9:06] That's what I'm saying, but that's really just a rebadge. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, it's just a rebadge. I mean, if it makes you feel better, this says chocolate on it.
+
+[9:13] Hey, great. Uh, but my point being that like that's where it's from now. It is in fact very similar to the old style chocolate grinders, and so the image that I'm thinking of, I think has three big wheels on it, uh rolling around and crushing uh chocolate, uh grinding chocolate in this Marcel Duchamp thing. But tell them what grinding your chocolate means in French. What do you mean?
+
+[9:35] Well, I was told when I was taking our history back in the day that that was uh that was slang for uh Oh, I d I'm not familiar with that slang. Slang for you know, getting yourself to the finish line. Huh? Grinding your own chocolate. I don't know that one.
+
+[9:50] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna have to Yeah, I'm curious.
+
+[9:54] Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Thanks for teaching me something now.
+
+[9:57] Yeah. Well, I thought I figured like some it could be a lie. It could that could be one of those lies that they teach you, but that sounds like Duchamp, because he's that kind of a guy. Yeah. Yeah, that kind of a play on something.
+
+[10:05] Absolutely. Yeah. Do you who is it? Remember with Seth Saz. Remember when Seth Godin was on and he said, because he's like a student of the woman that Marcel Duchamp ripped a lot of stuff off of.
+
+[10:16] Remember this? Way back when he came on. Yeah, it's blurry. Yeah. I was I remember when he was on, I don't remember that's correct.
+
+[10:23] What was her name? I gotta look it up. Anyway. Uh so how was the hazelnut butter? Good.
+
+[10:30] I think I need to tweak it a little bit because I I actually like the flavor of you grind everything together so you get like some of the astringency. When you say grind it together, you mean the nuts? Or do you mean you didn't take the skins off the nuts? I I don't I don't shake off all the skin. Okay.
+
+[10:49] Alright. So you like you like a little bitter. You like some bitterness? How roasted were they? Yeah.
+
+[10:56] Um, I did like 300 Fahrenheit for like between 35 and 40 minutes. Oh, that's a weird number. So like I would say moderate, moderate roast. That's a strange number. Long time at a low temperature?
+
+[11:11] That's some weird. What do the inside of the hazelnuts look like? I hate I hate it when hazelnuts get like burnt in the middle. I would say it it was a subtle, a subtle color change all the way through. And what why do you where did you come up with that number?
+
+[11:24] Why that number? And why that time? Uh just some trail hair from other nut roasting. Again, you know, I can't check it myself, so I always tend to go a little lower in temperature and then set a timer so that someone else can check it. By the way, we had a question in on nuts and nut butters that I don't have the answer to, and they said maybe we should wait for Ariel to come on, and maybe we will, but I'm gonna say it on air live in case anybody has the answer and wants to get into it with us.
+
+[11:59] Where where is it? Uh oh gosh, where is this question? Oh yeah, from Monty Z. Why do freshly ground nut butters taste so different from the nuts alone? That's an interesting question.
+
+[12:11] I mean, I I I have a hypothesis. Okay. And wait, if you're gonna give me a hypothesis, you also have to give me information about how someone might go test it to see if that hypothesis is true. Otherwise, the hypothesis is of no use. Yes, I mean I would guess that if if you are roasting them whole, and then again, if there is especially in the case of that that sort of exterior skin component, once you're grinding them, there is interaction between exterior components and interior components.
+
+[12:49] That is just going to, you know, that is some chemical reactions are gonna happen from grinding, especially over a long period, or just the completely homogenous mixture will taste different than what k you know what you can achieve by just like chewing them. But Monty hasn't said how they are grinding the nuts. There's no information about whether they're blanched, whether they're roasted, whether they're skinned, whether they're salted, not even what nut it is. The whole point is is that regardless of what technique, roast level, and not even like you say grind level, right? Like could be going through a champion juicer with the with the blank screen in, which is a good way to make butters, or uh, you know, I we used to use the the wet grinder, but first we would, you know, Roboku or Vita Prepped them so that they're small enough to to rock and roll in the thing, get them a little warm.
+
+[13:45] It could be the heat thing. Like I I've uh started using a did I mention the nut oil press on the on the air? I think so. When Madame did maybe you posted about it. Uh w no, I didn't post about it yet.
+
+[13:56] When Mad's reflins came on, uh he was like, You need to get a nut oil press because it's gonna change your life. Well, so I got one because they're really cheap now. Like you can get one for like a an inexpensive one, like uh like the ones that have a better brand name cost more, but like the ones that are very similar but don't have a brand name, they're like I think they're under under $200, right? And I've run some initial experiments with it, and the oil yield is incredibly, incredibly dependent on temperature. Like incredibly.
+
+[14:29] So when you run peanuts, which I know aren't a nut, don't get started, Quinn. I know it's not a nut, but when you run peel, you know, peanuts, an oil seed, a legume through uh the unit and you don't jack the temperature, you get no oil out of it, like none. But what you do get is an and I actually used it as this, you get an amazing nut powder out of it that um that is kind of really fluffy and not pasted together at all. So uh I made uh maze pan with it. So because for those of you that don't know, like I can't tell you how many times, even at Economy Candy, I went to Economy Candy, which is our local fancy candy store down the lower east side, and I said, I think I even called them, I was like, Do you have mazapan?
+
+[15:12] And they're like, Yes. And I show up and they hand me marzipan. And I'm like, listen, I know that my Spanish is garbage, but like mazapan and marzapan are not the same thing. You know what I mean? But I don't think we get a lot of people, at least in the lower east side, eating mazapan.
+
+[15:27] The well in LA you get mazapan everywhere, right, Stas? You can get mazapan everywhere. Uh yeah. Yeah. Uh so for those of you that don't know, it's like it's not an almonds, it's peanuts and sugar compressed into what look like giant alka seltzers, you know, like discs or like tiny urinal mints or giant alpha seltzers.
+
+[15:49] And you you they're in like a they're in like a wrapper, I think with a rose on it or something, right? And then when you eat it, if you make if someone makes a what you need to do is give one to somebody and then crack a joke when they're eating it. So they have to breathe in. They breathe out a little bit and then they breathe in and then all peanut dust and powdered sugar goes into their lungs and they're coughing for like a week. That's what you got it.
+
+[16:12] That's the trick with mazzapan. Also get people to eat it over their lap without a knacking because it's like it breaks into a million pieces and it's dust everywhere. But it's delicious. But you can make maze pan with this nut grinder but when you jack the temperature up to like like higher than you would think, jack the barrel temperature up into like you know a hundred and something Celsius. I forget I have the number somewhere you get massive amounts of oil.
+
+[16:34] So the oil yield, right, and therefore probably also the flavor of what's happening as you say Quinn with it is vastly dependent on temperature. But I'm assuming that you're doing a cold grinding and they're doing cold grinding. You're trying to keep the oil in the nut trying to although you know whatever you can emulsify it out. So nuts are dependent this way but um I think Monty is saying that there is some difference in general in the way the homogenized nut tastes from the individual nut and I just don't know the answer. But I think it's you know like you say it's probably something to do with you're turning it into homogeneous paste.
+
+[17:07] But it could also be that you're releasing more aromas by grinding and releasing oil in a way that your mouth can't do. I mean there's all sorts of theories but Ariel might know. Yeah I know I mean it's said that like the flavor of chocolate also changes from extended clenching refining even when the particle size is at the proper size if you like a lot of keep going often. Well, there's multiple things with that, right? There's the mouthfeel on the particle size and like aroma release, but there's also literally the volatilization of uh components, especially the way that we do it at home, where we're doing it for a long, long, long time, longer than anyone else would do it, eat it commercially, right?
+
+[17:52] Typically, you're flashing off notes. The same way that when we used to go get the crazy water from Saratoga, and all the people were like, How can you drink that? It tastes like sulfur. I'm like, the sulfur flashes off. You did when once you carb it two or three times and you and you burp it, you f you know you fluff it out, like the the sulfur goes away.
+
+[18:10] You know what I mean? And it's the same thing with conching, you're getting rid of uh aroma. But I don't know if that's what's going on. There might be something more, more blah blah. I don't know.
+
+[18:17] But it would be relatively easy to test if you had the equipment. But they also specify freshly ground, so you could compare like crushed nuts, very ground to fresh nuts, and then like a recold ground nut. I love how Quinn, you're like, it's fairly trivial if you have like a GC, you know, MS system. If you have if you have you have a, you know, if you have a you know, GC MS system with a especially if it has a sniffer port. I mean tasting the difference.
+
+[18:48] Well, I mean, Monty can taste the difference, wants to know why. You know what I mean? And the the fact of the matter is is that knowing why would help you figure out how to control it. I mean, that's the reason why it's good to actually have a hypothesis you can test. Because if you can test a hypothesis and you know the answer of why something happens, it helps you make better culinary decisions, right?
+
+[19:09] That's the whole reason to know the science behind anything when you're when you're cooking, isn't just so you can feel smart, it's so you can make better decisions when you're when you're cooking. You know what I mean? And what I don't do often enough, get rid of unnecessary steps. I can't tell you how many recipes I have that have unnecessary steps in them because if it worked the time you did it when you wrote it down, who has the time to run through and get rid of all of the steps? Stas, do you remember the uh do you remember the egg bread?
+
+[19:36] Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So we did this whole thing where like we had discovered that if you take egg yolks, getting fish bowl. If you take egg yolks and then you just yolks and sugar and salt, and I think I think it was baking soda, it could have been baking powder.
+
+[19:52] I gotta look it up. I think it was baking powder now. I think of it. And you mix it up, and you you you blend it, get a little air into it, and then you pressure cook it, it turns into like a bread that's made entirely out of egg yolk, right? So it's on the blog somewhere, you can look it up.
+
+[20:05] And so we were like, oh, that's another application for the pressure cooker. Guy named Jeff Butler, who's uh, you know, was uh teacher at the FCI was like, I put it in a steamer and it worked just as well. I was like, oh, snap. You know what I mean? I was like, because you in general, when you're doing a a lot of recipe testing, it's very, it's very hard to go back and retest you all the hypotheses.
+
+[20:29] So I had the hypothesis was that you needed the pressure cooker. Wrong, you know what I mean? And so I didn't test it. And this happens in recipes all the time. And no one has the time energy to go back and figure out which one of all the little things they have are real and which ones are just their intuition, which could be right or wrong.
+
+[20:45] You know what I mean? Yeah. Stas, and we're like, go for it. Because it was on the menu at Lake Cole. We're like, they're like, is it okay if we don't do it in the pressure cooker, Stas looked squarely in the dude's face and said, I don't care either a little bit.
+
+[21:01] Uh yeah. Anyway, uh all right, what else we got? What do you got, John? I went to La Tador on Saturday night, Daniel Bellou's new steakhouse restaurant thing. How was Danny B?
+
+[21:15] It's Goldenhead? Yeah. Is it related to Golden Eye? I don't know. I didn't ask.
+
+[21:20] Is that Pierce Brosnan or is that Daniel Craig? Pierce Bresson. I did run into DB on his way out, though, which was nice to quickly see him for a second. Um but yeah, that place really exceeded my expectations. Well, well, what were your expectations?
+
+[21:36] I don't know. It's always kind of like expectations. Low in general going to a new place. So you liked it though. I loved it.
+
+[21:42] It was great. What style of steak? Um, all of them. I mean, it's also really expensive. I'm gonna say deck broiler, pan, grill, wood grill, also like prime rib trolley, which I appreciate.
+
+[21:55] Danielle knows how to do some old school uh tableside Caesar? Uh-oh, how was it? Pretty good. Wood bowl? Yeah, wood bowl.
+
+[22:03] Rubbed garlic? No, they had some of that like already pre-I know. No crap on them. Get out of here. Cut the garlic in half, rub it on the inside of the bowl, or get out.
+
+[22:13] Get out! If I'm gonna do it with regular garlic, I might as well do it in the back like an a-hole. You know what I mean? Yeah. Whatever.
+
+[22:20] I'm sure it was delicious. It was. Well, how was the romaine treated? Uh just like thickish kind of thing. Sliced.
+
+[22:27] Yeah. Do you mind uh so I, you know, my mom came over for the Christmas, and she's still on the thing. She's like, I tear it. I'm like, all right, Ma. Uh is anyone else here still a tear freak on uh on lettuce?
+
+[22:45] Does anyone remember when tear became a thing? Oh yeah. Hell yeah. Yeah. You're like you would go to someone's house and the lettuce was sliced, and you're like, no, I see that you're one of those people who slices their lettuce.
+
+[22:57] And then after a while, we're all like, the hell, this is fine. Yeah. Doesn't need to be hand ripped apart and yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[23:05] Although I will say this, I wonder, because I haven't done it in a long time, I doubt there is. I don't think there is now that I'm saying it. You know how, like when you cut onions with uh a carbon steel knife? Yeah, everything goes shit crappy. It's everything's the whole night's ruined.
+
+[23:19] Like then the knife has that smell forever, the onions turn black, everything's terrible, life is bad. I wonder if there's something with lettuce with carbon steel blades, maybe that's where the ripping came from. Huh? I mean, a stainless steel knife, shagunk straight through the lettuce, ain't causing a problem. Does not make the lettuce wilt.
+
+[23:36] No. You especially like a firm lettuce, you could you could slice that thing. It is, as we say, fine. You know what I mean? Yes.
+
+[23:44] Huh? What's worse? Tiny, tiny pieces of lettuce or too big a piece? Too big. Too big.
+
+[23:53] That's why you don't tear. Yeah. I hate it when you go to a restaurant and you get like the whole leaf as the salad. You know, like a bunch of the whole leaves. Unless they even if they mean it.
+
+[24:02] Yeah. Yeah. Cut it up. All right. So let me ask you this.
+
+[24:06] Everyone picture a romaine leaf. All right. I like the middle section. I don't really like the floppy ends. If I'm gonna have romaine, I want that crunch.
+
+[24:17] I don't want it too close to the end where it gets a little bit not, and I don't like it at, you know, I don't like it at the green end, and I don't like it at the stem end. I like the kind of kind of that solid center section of the romaine. Does anyone prefer the floppy outside? No. No, right?
+
+[24:35] No. Now, if you had to erase from existence butter lettuce or romaine lettuce. Butter. Yeah, me too. What about you?
+
+[24:50] Anyone keeping butter? Yeah, I guess not, though I do love butter lettuce. But between the two. You're erasing iceberg or romaine. Romaine.
+
+[25:03] Wow. So keep the iceberg? Nothing I'm icing. Iceberg. Yeah, I say, oh, that's.
+
+[25:08] Or application. Yeah, I don't know. All right, but but a wedge salad will never be the same. That's true. I really do love a good wedge salad.
+
+[25:15] You know, listen, as a child of the 70s, for those of you that are like more recent vintage than I am, do people still like blue cheese dressing as much as I love blue cheese dressing? I hope so, but I don't think so. No? Joe Hazen doesn't like the blue cheese dressing. He's got this wave in the head.
+
+[25:29] There's only one, I know that salad bars are filth, like literal filth. I mean, but uh as a child of the 70s, I grew up with loving salad bars, and I always was a blue cheese dredger. I would take that like horrible beige ladle that and I would dredge all the way to the bottom of the blue cheese and pull the giant chunks up and then like all of the bacon bits and all the croutons on like three pieces of lettuce. That was my jam. You know what I mean?
+
+[25:59] All right. One more salad question. Half a hard boiled egg, yes or no? No. No?
+
+[26:06] No. Because it's too big or because you don't want the egg? I don't want the egg. Usually, yeah. I love an egg on a salad, but it's too big.
+
+[26:14] Hard boiled egg in what context? As a salad ingredient. As a green salad ingredient. No? Anyone else?
+
+[26:24] Anyone else? Pro egg? Yeah? Okay, here's one more for you. Sorry, I said I was done with salads.
+
+[26:29] In the 80s, in the 70s and 80s, it became a big thing to have quote unquote chef salad. And what chef salad was back then was a regular garbage salad, right? With dressing of your choice, and then like strips of cut up deli meat and strips, blocks sometimes, sometimes strips of cheese, and then pieces of egg, a lot of times put through one of those like wire slicers, right? And then all kind of on top, and then you chummed all that stuff up with garbage tomatoes, like you know, crunchy tomatoes, you know what I mean? And I have to say, delicious product.
+
+[27:03] When I think of that kind of thing, I think of the cob salad. I love a good cob salad is God salad. Yeah, it's so good. Cob salad, I think might be the height of saladry. Yeah.
+
+[27:12] The cop salad is delicious. It's so good. Yeah, so good. Yeah. Just works.
+
+[27:17] Do you like it when it becomes more of a meal and they chicken ize it? Yeah. Me too. Yeah, definitely. Me too.
+
+[27:23] Even with like overcooked, crappy like chicken tenders. I almost prefer it that way in a weird way. Wow. Especially when you have that like really hard char on there that you don't really want when you're cooking and you know what you should be doing, but I don't know. Like it still works.
+
+[27:36] Right. Can I give a suggestion for if you want charred and you happen to have a uh a like an outdoor grill? Go high heat. This is for this, go high heat. Take your chicken, take thighs.
+
+[27:46] Don't take the tenders. Take thighs. Bone them out, get them flat. Then uh salt, sugar, pepper, beat the crap out of them with a mallet, then put them into a marinade of your choice of like oil, uh, plain yogurt, a little bit of a little bit of uh sugar, lemon, olive oil, garlic, spices of your choice. So you could do cumin, you don't have to.
+
+[28:09] You could do, you know, parsley, you don't have to grind all that crap up, marinade that for a while. That's gonna soften it even more, season that sucker up. Super high heat grilled tandor style, like like off on, off on, off on till they're done. Drench those with butter, eat them day one. All your leftovers, cob salad.
+
+[28:26] Yeah. That is the ultimate cob salad, charred chicken, McGillakudi right there. Yeah. You know what I mean? Anyway.
+
+[28:34] The key to the marinade, obviously, the acid, the yogurt, and the acid. Uh and the other key to chicken that you've grilled the hell out of is dousing that sucker with butter when it comes off of the grill. Just like a like it you whenever you're gr doing super high heat grilling, God help you if you don't have just scads of melted butter around. You know what I mean? Even when I'm doing like flour tortillas, I know I'm supposed to use lard and I'm supposed to, but I brush everything with butter.
+
+[28:58] Cause why would I not brush everything with butter? Especially if you have vegetarians who who do dairy, yeah. Butter. Yeah. Butter's delicious.
+
+[29:05] It really is though. Yeah. Yeah. I don't use butter in my tortillas instead of lard. I use olive oil.
+
+[29:14] Whatever. Yeah. What are you gonna do? How the hell do we get on this? Oh, you were talking about Daniel Balud.
+
+[29:20] Oh, yeah. But so you're saying wood grill. Yes. Yeah, but then also some things panseered. I don't know.
+
+[29:26] They just did like the whole mix. I don't think they're I didn't see a broiler, a big broiler there. Do you remember when they used to do like like prime rib service? You could ask which section of the prime rib you wanted out of so you could get it more or less done. Yeah.
+
+[29:38] What'd you go for? Did you get prime rib? The person I was with got prime rib. Of course they did. Yes.
+
+[29:43] And it was great, like perfect medium rare. How thick. A good inch? Three quarters of an inch? Do an inch?
+
+[29:51] How burnt how burnt up was the outer was the outer deck of the hot cast. Not enough, yeah. Because that crunchy crap. Yeah, it's the best. That's I mean, you know what I mean?
+
+[29:58] No, it's great. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean everything on the menu is really good. The service was on point.
+
+[30:05] The desserts were great. I mean, it was just uh it was a beautiful space too. Um, usually like I've liked Daniel's food in the past, but I don't know. I also think you know, when you go to like Cafe Baloo or things like that, it's still very good, but it just feels a little dated, especially with the plating presentations and all that stuff. It's supposed to be though.
+
+[30:21] Yeah, no, no, I know. That's that's like the that's it his thing. But um and when you anyone busting out like any tableside or Gyaradone stuff, I'm like, yeah, baby. Exactly. Don't care what it is.
+
+[30:31] Don't care what it is. And you know, I've only had their their table side stuff at like you know, Danielle, the flagship Danielle. But those those fo folks were skilled, man. Yeah. Like they did the whole fish, uh, like uh the whole fish in the in the coffee, open it up.
+
+[30:46] Beautiful, no touch filleting, you know what I mean? With like this guy. I love that stuff. Yeah. Really is.
+
+[30:52] Yeah. So what it set you back, you'd have to say that. Okay, well, Dave, that's dated, but now now the trend is for like a new trendy restaurant to just bring you out a whole piece and a knife and be like, have at it. Yeah, you do it. I know.
+
+[31:04] I hate it. That drives me crazy. I hate that. Here's another thing. I hate it.
+
+[31:10] Why would I want to wear it? Yeah, I don't like I don't like carving anything either, which is why I debone almost everything that comes out. And people are like, Can you cut it? I'm like, no. You know what I mean?
+
+[31:19] Like Stas and I once Stas and I once sent a uh a half chicken back to the kitchen to have them cut it. Well, I was like, you do this, I'm gonna ruin it. Don't I don't want to use this crappy knife and and butcher this thing. Yeah, they weren't gonna give you a discount, right? No, and it's on a tiny little cutting board.
+
+[31:36] That's like pieces. To hell with that. That is trash. Although I will say this story. So my niece Mabel likes those little seaweed snacks that also Booker likes them.
+
+[31:51] They're like, you know, they're the same little Nori things that you would wrap around an onigiri, right? So they're not full sheets, but they're not tiny strips either, right? And so Travis, my brother-in-law, goes to the store to buy them the snacks for Mabel. And the person behind the counter hands hands him the like the giant, you know, the industrial pack of Nori wrapper for sushi. That's like a hundred of them.
+
+[32:16] You know what I mean? So much cheaper. It's the best way to buy Nori by far. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[32:20] And he goes, but do you have the ones that you know are in the she he goes, she goes, you cut it. He's like, all right. So now now, no matter what, when you when you see something, he's like, you cut it. Anyway. But not at a restaurant.
+
+[32:35] No. It's good advice when buying Nori. Because why am I paying them all that money to cut Nori up into smaller chunks and sell me a bunch of plastic to carry it around? But uh yeah, I agree. Carving sucks.
+
+[32:49] How do we get on that? Oh, because they don't do make you do that at Danielle. They carve it for you. Yes. Of course not.
+
+[32:55] No. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's it's a lost art. Things that are things that some things that are dated are gonna come back.
+
+[33:03] Hopefully, like the thing is that you don't want everything to be like that, but it's nice to have an incredible level of service every once in a while if you can afford. I know how much did it cost. Are you allowed to say? I didn't pay, thankfully. You know what?
+
+[33:18] The best steak house is? The best. The best steakhouse is free steakhouse. I recreated the um I can't believe I'm blanking it. The fill I didn't do fillet, I did the dry dribeye with the foie, the truffles and the sauce pirigaux.
+
+[33:33] What's the um I'm blanking on the escope name for that? But whatever. It was delicious. I was glad to finally have it. And I was glad not to pay for the bill.
+
+[33:41] So did they did they do a fresh slice over? Of uh foie? No, did they with the truffle? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[33:47] And and did they look at you and then wait for you to nod? No, they didn't. Oh, that's my favorite. That's my favorite. And does does Monsieur have the weavos?
+
+[34:01] And you look at it and you're like, oh, keep going. And then there's beads of sweat as the money is just going on to your food. Shink, shhing. Oh my God. Uh I've never had any.
+
+[34:11] I've always wanted to have a service thing like that where I could make someone who's trying to impress people like really sweat on like how much ridiculous money that they were, you know, shaving over the top of their food. You're gonna do that at temperance, like something crazy. Yeah. And just see when they stop. Yeah.
+
+[34:32] We'll see. It would be amazing, like in the future when we all have like uh augmented reality, like you know, glasses, and we're never looking at each other in the real life anymore. We're only looking through these like giant like Apple display situations. Like if it could like have it like ding ding ding up top, like actually have the money rolling over like over your head as you shave so you can see it. Like like when they play football and they can live put like the lines and stuff over it.
+
+[34:57] That's the future. Yeah. Um for that specific application. It's worth it just for that. Yes.
+
+[35:02] Like, you know, everything, everything good and bad that's gonna happen, it's all just for so I can see someone sweating as the money racks over their head when shaving truffles. But uh okay. Uh did I have anything in food? Oh, today's my kids, both my kids' birthdays. Yeah, because they both had the same birthday three years apart.
+
+[35:20] Booker now 23. And why is that? Schedule, Stas. Schedule. Once a year, I have a schedule.
+
+[35:29] Anyway, uh but uh so both my kids are in their 20s now. Uh one of them in the state of New York, well, 23, and one of them is is 20 in the state of New York, but 23 in the state of Pennsylvania, if you get my drift. I was like, I was like, how old is your fake ID say you are now? And he's like, Oh, I'm 23 now. Like, sweet.
+
+[35:55] Sweet. It's such a weird fiction we have in this country. Like, he doesn't own a car, so why can't he drive? I mean, why can't he uh why can't he buy alcohol? You know what I mean?
+
+[36:04] It should be one or the other. Yeah. Every New York City kid that I know of would go for a drinking license as opposed to a driving license if they were given a chance. Who grew up, who grew live in the city and don't have a car, whatever. Oh, so I have to make squid again.
+
+[36:20] You know, Booker's gonna eat an entire three-pound box of squid. By the way, for those of you that don't know, I have uh before I said that it was impossible to buy clean squid. It's now that was only like during the pandemic for like a year or two. It was hard to buy clean squid. It's very easy to buy clean squid again.
+
+[36:36] But here's the thing. So, what what do I hate most about cleaning squid? Answer everything. It's all a nightmare job. But uh, I really hate when it they're frozen and you haven't thought it enough, and they're so hard that when you cut through it, you realize you cut through the pen in it, and then you have to go back to all the tubes and pull that little piece of pen cartilage out of each one because your knife went through it because it's so cold that you couldn't feel it when it was thawing out.
+
+[37:00] You know what I mean? Yeah. I hate that. But here's what I hate about the new clean ones. They leave they take the beak out, thank God, right?
+
+[37:06] You know what I mean? But like they leave a chunk of meat on the tentacles that you would never serve. So I have to go back and trim it. Why? Like, I'll pay you an extra nickel to get rid of that for me.
+
+[37:16] You know what I mean? It's like, right? I mean, like, I'm not, I'm not haggling with you over the price of the box because you're selling them to me in a frozen box anyway. So just trim that, trim that garbage out. Because no one wants that.
+
+[37:28] Did you know? I asked this question. I was at Aqua Best buying a box, two boxes of it. And they're like, you want, you want tubes or tubes and tentacles? I was like, I want just tentacles, fool.
+
+[37:39] And he's like, we don't have just tentacles. I'm like, well, what do they do with the tentacles? Just the tubes. From just tubes. And he goes, I don't know.
+
+[37:47] So if anyone knows, I want to know what happens to just tentacles. And what do you guys like better? Do you guys prefer tubes or do you prefer tentacles? Tubes. Yeah, I guess tubes, but also legs are still really good.
+
+[38:01] It's called that tubes. Tubes. Yeah, I tell you what though. I I look in general, I think it's easier to cook a tube. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[38:12] Like, easier to cook a tube, easier to pick up a tube, easier to dip a tube. But when a when the when the tentacles are nice and it's got all that textural variance and you know what I mean? Here's something I wish was more delicious baby octopus. Baby octopus could be more delicious than it is. Have any of you had a baby octopus that lived up to your expectation of how delicious that baby octopus should have been?
+
+[38:36] No. Me either. No, not that I can remember. Yeah. Gizzards.
+
+[38:41] Delicious, right? Menu item. Nice. I love octopus. I'm just saying it's like a lot of people botch it.
+
+[38:44] And okay. So there are many ways to botch an octopus, which is probably why they're so disappointing. What's worse for you? Okay, there's tough. There's there's way chewy.
+
+[39:01] There's like just completely botched, right? Then there is That's what I'm talking about. All right. Then there's tough, right? Then there's so tender it's mushy.
+
+[39:10] Right? And so all of those are terrible. And it's only when it's those are all bad. I'd rather have it a little too tough than a little than too mushy, though, if it's me. I don't know.
+
+[39:25] I think a lot can I think it's really hard to cook fresh octopus too. People think the fresh octopus is better, but I think it's easier to cook a f a frozen thawed octopus than it is to cook a fresh one and get it and get it, get it good because the freeze thaw cycle just, you know, k-unk, like you know, takes a little bit of the out of it. Do you like cold octopus or hot octopus? I like them both though. I don't think I don't eat octopus.
+
+[39:52] Yeah, I know. I know. So it's kind of freaky, you know. Well, you know, I I don't think like it doesn't really matter. I don't like it that much.
+
+[40:06] Oh no. Oh yeah, right. A valid choice. I mean, my feeling on it is is that uh one, if they lived long enough, they would totally be our octopus overlords. You know what I mean?
+
+[40:17] They would totally have taken over and they'd be driving around in like, you know, like aquariums on land and telling us what to do. So I'm saying to hell with them. The other thing is they are, they don't live very long anyway. It's not like you're, it's not like you're taking 40 years of life away from an octopus. You know, here's here's an interesting thing, and I I don't know what the answer.
+
+[40:39] What percentage of octopuses that are caught are at the end of their life cycle, I wonder. And does it make them better or worse? I'm sure that like female octopuses, when they octopi whatever, when they are uh, you know, watching their eggs brood, right? They're blowing water over them all the time to keep parasites away and to guard them. They don't eat that entire time, right?
+
+[41:01] So they're like wasting away. So I'm presumably that would be a bad tasting octopus. Presumably. Well, I don't think you would catch those. How do you know what you catch?
+
+[41:10] Because what well, they wander off and die. Saying that like the males, when the males mate with the female octopus, right? Then they go loony boons and they just wander around the bottom of the ocean waiting to get tagged by a fish. Is that are those the ones we catch? I don't know.
+
+[41:26] You know what I mean? Like, are we catching healthy octopus? Like, how do we even catch like what are we doing? You know, I have no idea. I should know.
+
+[41:35] You know what I mean? But I don't. I know I ran a test once where we cooked all of the legs of the octopus separately and tasted them separately, all different. Different tendernesses and va obviously vastly different from tip to uh base of the tentacle. Anyway.
+
+[41:59] All right, how do we get an octopus? Oh, that was what disappointed Jack. I think gizzards are really disappointing how considering how delicious they are. Duck gizzards, I had a duck gizzard salad in France. I'm still trying to figure out how they cook the gizzards.
+
+[42:12] Those gizzards were not. You know how when you boil a gizzard, like or you pressure cook it, it gets soft, but it's not interesting anymore. They had a gizzard that had just the right amount of bite to it. Still had all of its flavor in it. I don't know how the hell they did it.
+
+[42:25] I love gizzard though. By itself, as just not as just serving to people, but gizzard. Not as good as a heart. A chicken heart, duck heart. Yeah, really good.
+
+[42:35] Come on. Delicious. All right. Lord Naboo uh wrote in and said, Oh, I was gonna give my squid recipe. Think people want the squid recipe?
+
+[42:44] All right. So uh a box of uh tubes and tentacles when thawed yields about 879 grams of uh of squid, a little bit of ice chunks left in it, whatever. So I I thaw it as fast as I can under running water. I chop it up, and then uh I add to that to the 879, 15 grams of salt, 200 grams of buttermilk. The acid's gonna help tenderize the uh, what's it called?
+
+[43:11] The uh squid, uh, and then 15 grams of sugar, stir that all up, soak it in a ziploc bag, get rid of the air, soak that in the fridge for however long you want, a couple hours, what doesn't matter. Then uh I drain it in a colander. When you drain it, uh I then I save the this the buttermilk and all the stuff that it's been in. It's also gonna release some liquid because you salted it, right? So you're gonna get more than 200 back.
+
+[43:35] I add an egg to it, chuck, chuk, chuk, chuk, four grams of uh soda, six grams of baking soda, six grams of uh baking powder. Uh then I go, I take the squid that's in the colander, throw it into flour, then you know, toss it all around in flour. Remember, you don't need to pepper and salt the flour. I don't add pepper to this, by the way. Normally I would, but Booker hates pepper.
+
+[43:56] So there's no pepper in the in the soak. I would normally add it. And then uh out of the flour, put it back into a dry colander, chack, chak, chak, chuck, tack, knock off the extra, into the liquid, back into the powder, deep fry. That's what I do. Solid.
+
+[44:10] Yeah. Yeah. That's what I do. Uh you can do it, you can do it differently, but then you're not making the one that Booker wants. Well, what was your oil temperature?
+
+[44:19] Uh hot. Uh like I'm doing it at like 360, 365. Like uh, you know, this is another point. It's gonna come up in a second. About uh well, it's gonna come up frying is gonna come up in in a second.
+
+[44:31] But oil temperature, it used to be back in the day before I, you know, would low temp chicken before I did my my fry offs. Maybe it was better, maybe it was worse. I would have to constantly ratchet my oil temperatures up and down, right? So, you know, I would fry chicken at a much lower temperature than I would fry French fries at for the for the final fry. And uh, you know, per Jose Andres's uh advice when I was much younger, uh, why don't you just write every recipe to cook at the same temperature?
+
+[45:03] Right? So I've told the story on the air, right? So like I I was interviewing him about planchas because they were becoming huge. So I interviewed Danielle because Danielle had had a new jade plancha was being designed, like Spanish styles. The first time a Spanish-style planchas were being designed by American equipment manufacturers.
+
+[45:21] Jade was the first one to do it. So Danielle had one at some restaurant he was opening in Vegas. I interviewed, you know, people who were using like American grills as planches and flat tops, like uh Andy Nusser over at Cosimono. And I call up Jose Andres and talk to him about Atlantico, right? And I was like, oh, so you so you uh so you what do you you you have all the different sections of the griddle and you turn them on different temperatures so that you mimic a planch.
+
+[45:45] He's like, no, I have it all one temperature and I write all the recipes so that everything cooks at the same temperature, so I don't have to worry about where I put something down on my freaking griddle for it to cook in the exact amount of time I want it to cook. I was like, oh. And at the time, I was like, that's crazy. And then the older I get, the more I'm like, that's so smart. That's so smart.
+
+[46:07] You know what I mean? That's so smart getting rid of variables. There's no there's no truth to like the heroic person who can has to juggle around. It's like remove variables, man. Anyway, Jose Andres.
+
+[46:20] Um Lord Nabu was reading in the food lab. Uh uh, stumbled across the claim that binshe potatoes aren't particularly good for making fries. French fries, Belgian frites. Fritz. Uh this surprised me, as is it is, as far as I know, the preferred potato in Belgium for exactly that purpose.
+
+[46:40] This has led me to a number of possible conclusions, and I would like to hear the opinions on which is possibly correct. One, perhaps there's a difference in North American binshees and European uh ones. Uh two, perhaps the binshe is more suited to Belgian style of cooking fries, uh, because they want the binshe flavor, they adjust their recipes. Or three, Kenji is wrong. Uh okay, well, all of these can be true, first of all, or all of them could be could be false.
+
+[47:06] Uh it is possible that the binshe are slightly different because uh binshees, my memory serves me. I looked it up more last week. I didn't get to get to this question because we had, you know, had someone on. But uh binshees are relatively early tubers, right? And the longer something leads.
+
+[47:23] So first, let's just back up for a second. What's what's at issue here? It's the starch content, right? So a potato has a couple of things you gotta worry about. One is the flavor.
+
+[47:32] Do you like it? Right. And then two is uh what's the starch content of it? And the importance of the starch content is that it is that potatoes are, you know, we consider potatoes mostly to be starch and water, right? So the higher the the gravity, the higher the density of the potato, the specific gravity, the more starch there is, the less water there is.
+
+[47:54] And at a certain point, right, a potato has so much starch in it that when you cook it, the starch grains swell and shatter the cells of the potato. And that's why that's the difference between fluffy and waxy. So in a fluffy potato, there's so much starch relative to water that when the starch granules puff up, it creates that classic baked potato, right? And for French fries, we typically Americans, that's also what we want in our French fries, that kind of fluffiness. And so, like, you know, you can look at those, and when you do a baked potato, and I hope you all do this, you make the school, you bake the potato, you do the score line down the middle, you put your fingers on both ends and go boop.
+
+[48:33] And when it comes up and like kind of busts itself open and you see those little grains, that's how you know you've done a good job. Now, uh specific gravity is the density of the potato, which is like I say, a good proxy, right? And you want the you want the starch to be relatively high, a relatively high density for making French fries, because aside from the texture of the starch, it also means that you have to remove less water. Because remember that French fries are a moisture management situation. So in order to have a crispy outside of the French fries, you need to dehydrate that area of the fry enough so that you uh remain crispy even when they're hot and moisture keeps coming out of the middle, right?
+
+[49:14] That's the whole trick of French fries, which is why you need to do twice fried. And then in America, we typically do a water blanch, maybe we freeze them. All of these are dehydration techniques and cooking techniques to try to get the French fry uh perfect and still crunchy on the outside. The Belgians, by the way, for you know, all for even if you look at the way that I, you know, has said it on the blog or the way most of us do it, it's a very multi, multi, multi-step process because we're not willing to just really control the first fry. The Belgians, who by the way, if you here's what you should do.
+
+[49:46] You should go to Belgium, right? In if you have questions about the Belgian fries really uh that good, go. You know what I mean? Like you go and you're like, oh yeah, these it's like the average idiot in Belgium at a fry shop does a better job of fries than we do. Period.
+
+[50:03] You know what I mean? It's same with waffles, you know what I mean? And so it's kind of settles a lot of arguments, and you can ask them, what do you do? And it's better than the ones that we typically do. Now, um so binshees, if you're talking about gravity, are medium high, right?
+
+[50:23] So they can be on the, they can they're they're medium high. Uh the standard Idaho potato, right, has to have a specific gravity of at least 1.08, right? That's that's that's the kind of magic number where they start to fluff out. Anything below 1.07, so 1.07, it's denser. It's like so water is one, potato 1.07.
+
+[50:44] So, and you can test this at home if you really give a crap. An 11% brine, 11%. So, like 11, uh 11 grams of water and sorry, 11 grams of salt and 90, no, 11 grams of salt and 89 grams of water, 11% brine. That is 1.08 density. If if a potato floats in that, it's going to be fluffy.
+
+[51:04] And if a potato, sorry, if a potato sinks in that, it's going to be fluffy. And if it floats in that, it's on the line. Uh I'll give you some other ones. Uh 1.1, which is a dense potato, uh, 13.25% salt, and uh a 1.09, 12.14% salt, and 1070, which is Idaho's minimum for fluffiness, which is kind of where binshies are, right? Is 9.5%.
+
+[51:28] Here's another thing about potatoes. Dax, I think I said this on the air, has started to prioritize potato flavor over necessarily uh texture. So he wants me to come up with techniques that get the correct texture while maximizing the flavor. And what that means is you don't soak them beforehand. Whenever you soak a potato beforehand, you're reducing the potato flavor if you actually do side by side soaked and not.
+
+[51:51] So then you need to figure out, okay, does the binshe have too much sugar in it? Because if you look at Belgians, I don't think they're soaking their fries, John. I think they just go bam into the first oil. They cook it for a long, long time at a lower temperature, so longer and lower than we did. So last time when I called you, I did my test at uh 300, I think 260 or 300 Fahrenheit for like 11 minutes.
+
+[52:14] Nine nine minutes. It's kept them blonde, pulled them out, did the second fry at 365, crisp as hell, no soak, just cut them and immediately took them and put them in the oil. And I think that's probably gonna be the best tasting fry. I I gotta do some more tests, but anyway, so I would uh not argue with the Belgians on what potato to use. And the technique that you use is gonna be all important on exactly what you do.
+
+[52:36] And there's a billion ways to make a a potato delicious even when it's fried. Something that looks so simple as a French fry, there's a million ways to get to that. So is that covered, smothered? I'd say so. All right.
+
+[52:47] Covered and smothered. Yeah. Ven Groff writes in Whenever I visit France, I marvel at the quality of chickens for sale at affordable prices in ordinary markets. You go to the uh, you like a you like a French chicken? Yeah.
+
+[52:58] Good poulet de breast. Oh, I knew you were gonna say have you had the new the American ones that are like breast chickens? I have not. I've heard really good things though. I yeah, I also have heard good things, but never had one.
+
+[53:08] No, I haven't, yeah. Has anyone here had or no? Uh the flavor and texture are miles ahead of anything we can easily get at home. Well, Vengroff, what do you mean by the texture? Do what how do you like a chicken?
+
+[53:20] So American chickens are the softest chickens on earth. Like our chickens are salved. You know what I mean? So do you like a chewyer chicken? I I don't know exactly what you're looking for.
+
+[53:29] I mean, in general, the French have a chewyer chicken, do they not, John? Yeah, they do a little tougher. Yeah. Um flavor and texture are miles ahead of anything we can easily get at home. Uh I think to first order, it's mostly due to fat content and sanely sized breasts that don't dry out if you cook them in the wrong way, but I'm sure there's more to it than that.
+
+[53:45] Where can I get decent chicken like this in the NYC area without breaking the bank? I don't know, man. People used to, because the problem is that like most chickens they're sold here are still gonna be, you know, six weeks or younger, like very high uh or very low feet, whatever you look at it, feed conversion ratio. So, like they're trying to plump them up as fast as they can on as little food as they if as they can to keep the prices as low as possible. And if you do that, I mean, that's not a recipe to make an intensely flavorful.
+
+[54:16] It's the same thing with like strawberries when you jack them full of water. When you buy Driscolls that are jacked full of water, they're jacked full of water. You know what I mean? So um, I don't know. I mean, uh, you know what's interesting to try in New York?
+
+[54:28] Have you guys ever cooked the bantam silkies? No. They're good. They're tough. They're very, very flavorful, but they're tough and bony and expensive.
+
+[54:39] And people will give you weird looks if you because they they wonder why you're buying them. If you're not buying them for TCM reasons, they're like, why are like, why is why is this white dude coming in and buying this these bantam silkies? And I'm like, well, I want to eat them. And but they are quite flavorful. They're good.
+
+[54:55] Um I haven't bought both in New York City. There was a place probably still exists called Bobo that had and it had the little markers uh on the Buddhist chicken that you would get the little, it would have the little metal tabs on the wings called Buddhist chicken. They were cut with the heads on, and they were supposedly slightly better. You could probably uh Patrick Martin's over there at Heritage Mead. I haven't spoken to him in years, but I'm sure you can get good chickens from him.
+
+[55:17] I don't know. Remember those, remember those giant lambs that he had? Wait, oh, because the ones he couldn't get rid of? The giant lamb rack removal pad. Oh my god.
+
+[55:28] Am I allowed to tell that story? I think so. What chef was it? Do you remember? I Carlo?
+
+[55:37] I have no idea. Was it Carmelini? Did we ever do anything with him? I don't know. He only tried to choke you out.
+
+[55:43] Yeah, yeah. So like it was uh so I forget what chef it was, but like we were we were doing this event for Mofad, and you know, they ordered a bunch of rack of lambs from Patrick. And Patrick had gotten the order wrong by like an order of magnitude. He thought that the chef was asking for like all the lamb on the Eastern Seaboard. You know what I mean?
+
+[56:11] And like, because they asked for like 50 racks or something like that for like 150 people. They asked for like 50 racks, which is reasonable. You know what I mean? Or whatever it was. It was reasonable.
+
+[56:21] I looked at the numbers, I'm like, that's reasonable. A rack is gonna get, you know, however many little chops, each person's gonna get two for this dish. You know what I mean? It's like totally reasonable. And he was like, he was so like zoned and crazy.
+
+[56:35] First of all, he goes crazy on the chef. And I can say this because I forget who it was. He's like, they use the cheapest meat, the cheapest meat in their restaurant. They never buy from me in the restaurant, only using the cheapest meat. They want all of my lamb.
+
+[56:46] And I was like, Patrick, they asked for this number of racks. He's like, and he had the how many pounds was in a rack of lamb off by like a factor of three. I'm like, Patrick, Patrick, he's not asking for that many pounds of freaking lamb, brother. It's only a like, like a rack doesn't weigh that much. It's like you sell these things for a freaking living, man.
+
+[57:04] Racks weigh nothing. They weigh nothing. Hmm. Uh good times. Uh good times.
+
+[57:13] Uh all right. Um, uh, okay. So I didn't answer Van Groff's question, but maybe someone can send me or put onto our Patreon McGill good chicken in the New York City area. Good chicken. Does uh does Ed Edwards doesn't do chicken, right?
+
+[57:28] No. We have to get him on too. Um, I don't know. Like all the good restaurants have their own relationships with the you know, the people who raise the chicken, it seems. I don't know.
+
+[57:38] Yeah. Xander, when making rapid infusion, how do you test slash adjust flavors for consistency? I found variations in the strength of my coconut vodka infusions, any notes. Time is really important, and also how much liquid you have in the container is important. I highly recommend do it now before they become illegal.
+
+[57:53] Buy a tank and a regulator so that and uh and an adapter so that you can just do it by pressure alone, and that's gonna take almost all the variables out. Then it's just you gotta get your times right because you're gonna get your pressure the same every single time. That's probably it. Could be the fact that your coconut are changing, but most likely it's it's the uh volume in the in the container is is changing. Tyler got a meat slicer and would like some unholy version of a loaf deli meat, thinking of deboning a chicken and grinding them together, then gluing the ground chicken, wrapping it into a cylindrical shape, and then low-temp cooking it.
+
+[58:21] Will this work? Should I do something else? Be careful. If you bind meat together that's ground with meat glue in a tube shape uh that's and it's ground and and you salt it, it's gonna get hard as hell. Hard as hell.
+
+[58:34] So you either need low salt or only a tiny amount of meat group. If you add salt and you do it together, you shouldn't really need meat glue to bind a loaf together if you're gonna cook it. Uh depends. I should say if it's gonna be meatloaf and it's coarsely ground, sure, meat glue it together. But if it's gonna be emulsified like a deli loaf, then just be careful.
+
+[58:52] Meat glue plus salt equals hard like a ping pong ball. Was that is that okay? All right. Uh let me see. Uh in Salumi by Ruman and Pulson, they claim there's some special effect that happens when you cure Lardo for six months in a marble cast made with marble mined and colonata, and they it's career style.
+
+[59:08] And they speculate that it's from calcium carbonate in the marble that makes the final lardo creamier or something. They claim the marble specifically has this effect and won't be the same if you cure it in a different container. Could this be true? And can you think of a mechanism? I don't think that's true, but there has been some studies on uh curing in marble, and I think it's mainly the fact that marble is poor, not porous enough that you won't die if you get put yourself in a coffin made of marble.
+
+[59:29] But it's relatively porous, and they have done tests. They did a test, I looked it up, but it's really dumb. It's because they ran a test on uh curing it not in marble and curing it in marble, but when they did it called it not the style on the marble, they also added the rosemary and all the other stuff that you add to Lardo, and then the one that they dry cured that tasted different when they did GCMS on it, right? Uh had different fatty acid profiles. I don't think they used the rosemary, at least it didn't say so.
+
+[59:54] So that's also a problem because it has, you know, effects other than uh has curative effects, has preserved effects. So there is a there is a a difference, but I don't think it has anything to do with the calcium carbonate. Um all right, so I'm gonna have to get to uh Lucas's problem on the next uh go-around and also Andrew's non-alcoholic uh liquor question next time around. But next week we have Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt Sardwell from Kitchen Arts and Letters. So please ask us all of your classics in the field questions.
+
+[1:00:26] Yeah, cookie issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you alive from the Heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City News Dance Studios. Joined as usual with John behind me. How you doing, John? Doing great, thanks.
+
+[0:21] Yeah, everything good? Yeah. Very cold, cold, cold day here in New York City. Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels. Hey, how are you doing?
+
+[0:28] Very cold. Cold. Yeah, you know, whatever. Uh, you know who hates people talking about the weather? Nastasia the hammer Lopez, who uh has to hightail soon, but uh is here at the beginning.
+
+[0:37] How are you doing, Stas? Good. Good, good, good. And uh over there in Los Angeles, we have uh Jackie Molecules. Jack Insley, how you doing?
+
+[0:48] Yo, I'm good. Yo, and full crew upper left, we got Quinn. How you doing, Quinn? Hey, I'm good. Good, good, good.
+
+[0:55] And uh, I am pleased to announce back for Classics in the Feel Matt Sartwell from Kitchen Arts and Letters, everybody's favorite cookbook store up uh on Lexington Avenue between what, 94 and 94. 93 and 94, yeah. Now listen, if you bike there, remember there's the one big hill in Manhattan you gotta get through, but it's worth it. It's worth it. You know what I mean?
+
+[1:18] Wait, the hill's before you or after you. Uh depends which way you're coming from. I guess that's true. Yeah, if you're coming from the west side, it's easy, but from the south, yeah. Or the east, it's bitter.
+
+[1:27] Yeah. It's a nice walk from the subway, though. Easy walk from the subway. Yeah, yeah. Uh on that on that green line.
+
+[1:32] All right, all right. So, uh, since Nastasia has to leave early, she wants everyone to know. I'm assuming this is what you want to talk about, Stas. Yes. Everyone should get excited because your dumbest bartender is coming to town.
+
+[1:49] Get excited. Uh, we are going to uh Nastasia and I will be making an appearance next Monday. That is, so if you're not a Patreon listener, it means you just heard this like right now, you gotta leave right now if you're not on the Patreon. Uh on Monday, I don't know what time starting, but we'll he'll put stuff out. But Mike Capo Ferry's new bar night on earth, we're gonna be there and we're gonna sling, I don't know, like three or four drinks until those from Contra, uh first come, first serve until those drinks are done.
+
+[2:17] Is that pretty accurate, Saz? Yeah. That's true. Yeah, yeah. I was gonna try to do a class, but uh it fell through.
+
+[2:26] So I was gonna try to do a class on that Tuesday, but fell through. Sponsor fell through. So, you know. And you you know, you can't do it for free because there's it just takes a lot of stuff. Yeah.
+
+[2:35] You know what I mean? It just takes a lot of stuff to do. But if there is a sponsor that's listening, let us know. Yeah. Yep.
+
+[2:44] All right. So uh I don't want anyone to say ever, Nastasia, that like uh I never do anything that you want to do, like you said on the radio last week or whatever. But okay. This is actually an opportunity. This is like when Maria Gorna Shelley kept begging me to meet with you, and you were like, I don't want to meet her.
+
+[3:04] I don't want to meet her. And I was like, okay, but it's important. And then you got this great book out of it. So I'm like, hey, there's this opportunity in LA, which is not the pop up. Yeah.
+
+[3:13] So we will see how this I I'm pretty sure that Nastasi and I are gonna have another opportunity to work together, which yay. And then we're probably gonna have an opportunity to not get paid together. But we will see whether or not we have yet another opportunity to not get paid together. Let's hope so. That's our favorite.
+
+[3:33] That's our five favorite. It's our favorite. Like, you know, listen, if anyone out there has uh like some sort of a project where we can put in maximal work and care and like really do like the best possible job that our decades of experience doing this kind of thing, and then just not pay us, just give us a call. We're in. Anyway.
+
+[3:54] All right. Any good uh any good any good food stories before you have to hightail it there, S. Um, before before you start, before you start, a question for you before I forget. Where does high tail come from? Is it animals that if they if their tail is low, it'll drag through the poop that they just did?
+
+[4:11] What is it? I think when animals are scared, their tail raised and they run, right? Uh okay, fair. That's good. Yeah, but yeah, it's like a bull a bull tail like raise when it runs.
+
+[4:23] All right, sorry, Stas. Go ahead. Sorry, sorry. I ate at the place called Heartwood in Mexico, which everybody raised out, and it was fine. So they don't burn any sap wood at all, just heartwood only.
+
+[4:44] H A R T. I don't know. Oh, heart like their but they they're an actual restaurant though. They're not like they're not they're not like Monterey is now where it's just pop-ups only. No, it's an actual restaurant.
+
+[5:00] Yeah. Um, it was fine. All right. Any anything stand out as being particularly good, bad, or particularly meh? Well.
+
+[5:16] So I don't know if you heard it because you're down in uh in Mexico, but sad news of I mean, many sad things, of course, happened this last weekend, but uh in terms of my tiny little world, Andre Soltner died. He was ninety two years old. For those of you that don't know, Andre Soltner was one of the original, well, this is not why he he's famous, but he was one of the original deans at the French Culinary Institute where Anastasia and I met, where I was the director of culinary technology. The only remaining original dean is Jacques Therese, uh, you know, which young people probably know from nailed it, which is so crazy to me. But Andre Soltner uh had what was by many accounts the best restaurant in the United States for decades called Lutes.
+
+[5:57] And uh in fact, uh it was featured in Mad Men because it opened right around the time that Mad Men was set to start. And so they have a very early like version of Lutes in the uh I think season one of Mad Men. And when I was a kid in the 70s, it was the it was the restaurant that I wanted to go to most. And I remember I wanted to go alone back when I thought solo dining was cool. I I hate solo dining now, but I didn't end up going alone.
+
+[6:25] I think I went with my dad when I was like 11 in like 1982. I still remember it and then so it was a huge honor to get to work with Andre. Andre was a total sweetheart, complete sweetheart, and like a chef chef, and like one of those old school things that doesn't make sense anymore, where if the restaurant was open, he was in the restaurant. His wife ran he was basically GM ran the front of house, and it was their team, and uh they ran it together, and they if if it was open, those two were there. Uh yeah.
+
+[6:56] And then, you know, she he nursed her until she finally passed away, found a second kind of love, and then finally, you know, uh I mean he's 92, so but still great guy. Totally humble. Came into the bookstore once. I mean, I spotted him right away, but he was looking around and he finally came over and very diffidently introduced himself. Like I happened, I used to have this restaurant.
+
+[7:21] I was like, yes. And I I first heard about Lutes when I got to work in publishing. And uh I was handed my corporate expense card and a list of five restaurants that were too expensive to eat at. And the top of it was Lutes. And I it was forbidden.
+
+[7:37] So did but you win eventually, no? No, I never knew. Oh my goodness. Uh well, you know. Many regrets.
+
+[7:42] I feel like, you know, I would when I was there, they were probably 20 years in or something like that. Uh uh, 20 years into like a 40 year run. And yeah, it was great. I mean, even from a kid's perspective, I mean, you know, completely, completely on point. And so he used to do demos all the time, and so he would always he was Alzatian, right?
+
+[8:02] So he had this kind of like Alzatian accent. Buy's the best, waste nothing. You know what I mean? And then like he would that was what he would say constantly, buy the best, waste nothing. And then, like, I remember he told me that he never had a vacuum machine because he buys fresh every day.
+
+[8:16] Why would he need a vacuum machine? I was like, okay, Chef. You know what I mean? Okay, chef. Uh, but uh, yeah, he uh he used to cook giant, he would get these giant, giant rondo's styles.
+
+[8:27] You remember this when he was doing his demos, almost all the other deans, they would have whoever was running the amphitheater, which is where people would like do all of their prep. Andre Soltner would show up at the crack whenever he had a demo day, get a rondo as big as he was, huge, and just slice infinity onions and just sit there and take his onions down for hours. Hours. He would always tell the same joke about how when he was a kid, he would hide his he would hide his uh glass of booze or you know, his bottle of booze in the rondo with like take take sips out of it. But uh yeah, just a real class act.
+
+[9:03] Uh real class act. We'll be missed. Um very also like very generous with it with his uh information and time. Just you know, not I bet you I think they were one of the original silent kitchens, right? He didn't talk in the kitchen.
+
+[9:17] I don't know. I don't know about that. Um I mean it wouldn't surprise me. He was so um sort of like smooth and unperturbable. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[9:29] Anyway. I remember this. I had a mean duck when I was there. Dude knew how to cook a duck. But uh anyway, all right.
+
+[9:38] So uh anything else from the past uh week? Uh Jack, you all uh safe there in LA? Are things mellowing out or what? Yeah, yeah. Things are relatively normal, relatively normal again here.
+
+[9:50] Um I I did start cooking through the Mother Jaffrey Indor Indian cookery book, which I'm sure is at Kitchen Arts and Letters. Well, which one? Doesn't she have like a billion? So like the old one. Oh, Invitation.
+
+[10:03] No, just uh Jeffrey's Indian cookery. Uh-huh. A lot of them have very similar titles. So they too, I know. It's kind of confusing.
+
+[10:13] Um, but man, those recipes, they really they really still hit. Yeah. Does anyone still read uh uh Krishna's cuisine? Uh Yamuna Devi. People seek it out.
+
+[10:25] I mean, it's not in printed anymore. I don't know. That was like the book like 30 years ago, right? It was it was uh the rival to the to the funny. Yeah.
+
+[10:35] That's the one I that's the first cookbook I got. It was I mean first Indian cookbook that I got, and it was let's just say Daunting. It was immersive, definitely immersive. I mean, it you know, she was uh an outsider, uh taking you inside. So it was a very passionate, deep, deep, deep dive.
+
+[10:57] Um it had a troubled publishing history. It was sort of a started with the small company that never quite had the money to keep it going. They partnered with the bigger company that got bought up and you know, in the way publishing in the n late 20th century was swallowed and swallowed and swallowed. But the copy I have is white and looks like it was printed by a trade publisher. Yeah, it might say Bala books on the spine.
+
+[11:21] That's the original publisher, then it became E. P. Thutton, and then uh I don't know if it ever became Penguin USA, but they got swallowed by Penguin then. Yeah. That's that's a nightmare being swallowed by a penguin.
+
+[11:33] That means you're a tiny gross fish. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Uh have you ever read the book Hoosh? The one about uh the Antarctic.
+
+[11:41] Yes. Yes. Cooking penguins, mainly. It's mainly how to cook penguin and how to cook seal. Those are the two things that they would cook or penguins and seals, the occasional other mammal like a walrus and stuff.
+
+[11:51] But apparently penguins, not bad, but they are different stuff, you know, species to species. I forget which one was the best penguin, which made the best hoosh, which is the for those of you who don't know, that's the Antarctic stew that you know, all of the researchers would have and and the the mush folks would have down there when they were hoosh. Not a great book, I don't think, but it's the only book on the subject. When you're the only book on the subject you get to be as good as you want to be. Yeah.
+
+[12:17] Yeah. You know of any other Antarctic cookbooks. There was a memoir of somebody going down there to the station that included a lot of food material, but I cannot remember the title. We carried it briefly and and Hoosha always just sort of overwhelmed it. So I like the idea that Hoosh, a book that I'm sure you and I are the only people who can hear this who have ever read overwhelmed another book.
+
+[12:43] Well, you know, that's that's that's about working in a niche. Yeah. All right, all right. Uh we have a caller, a caller, you're on the air. Hey Dave, it's uh Nikki Sanguich out in Jersey.
+
+[12:53] Hey, what's up? Um, so I've got a uh a little commercial uh oven and uh or uh you know what if I wanted to get a little more airflow in there, uh uh is there any way I would be able to do that? I mean, look, there's always a way. But the question is there's a couple of questions. When you say it's a commercial oven, is this in a commercial establishment?
+
+[13:18] So your insurance is. I got a suppression s system. I got you know. Yeah, be aware that if you modify your commercial restaurant equipment that you might be in trouble from an insurance standpoint, especially if people other than you are going to use it if it's a permanent modification. I just got to say that uh right from the get go.
+
+[13:40] When you say small, small smaller than a half sheet or a half sheet. You no, you can get you can get a full sheet in there. It's just you gotta put it in, you know, a long way. Okay. Oh, so it's like it's n it's it's it's narrow but deep.
+
+[13:53] So it's like full depth, but okay, okay. Uh yeah, it's it's it can be you look, there are I'm trying to think, is this true? I mean, and you don't want to cut a hole in it. You can cut a hole in it. That'll increase the airflow for sure.
+
+[14:07] Um you know, the only other way is to take up some of is it gas or electric? Yeah. Yeah. So gas, they do have a bunch of vents into them. So there is always in I I hesitate to even tell you this, but there are vents all around those things and you can duck stuff in and out.
+
+[14:24] And obviously the fans for a convection unit are in the hot space. So what those fans typically do is they have a relatively long shaft, right? And the shaft is made of a relatively poor conductor, stainless steel. And they just pray that by the time the uh the heat energy makes it to back where the motor is, and there's usually a second cooler on the motor thing, that the shaft has gotten below about a hundred degrees C by the time it gets to the back. And that's usually the case until your bearing seizes up, and then the then the whole motor kind of sometimes can get toasted out.
+
+[15:01] But it really requires cutting a hole in the back of the oven. And by the way, totally doable. Even with enamel, you can cut a hole through the back of the oven. Uh, you know, but you know, you're really then, you know, not just avoiding the warranty, but mean uh problems with insurance. If anyone could ever trace it if there was ever a fire.
+
+[15:20] You know what I mean? Technically real easy. In fact, you can just go buy the convection unit from like, you know, you could just go online and look up like garland or whatever and buy the buy the fan. Only other problem with those fans is that they're relatively deep. So you mu depending on where you place it, you're gonna have a tough time getting the uh getting the what's it called, the the your pans in and out because they're relatively deep.
+
+[15:44] I'm holding my fingers how big that the the big commercial ones are, and I'm I want to say two and a half inches deep at least into your oven. So if that's a problem, you know, and then you're gonna have to screw the the the cover over the top so that you're you know you you're not feeding people's fingers and you're not feeding pastries into into the fan. You could try to just duct uh air in through one of the vents, but then you're losing one of the vents. Uh all of this is possible. I don't know of a system that can handle a high high heat.
+
+[16:15] I mean, if you made everything out of silicone, you could, but a motor that's jet that's designed for the motor to run at oven temperatures, I don't know. You know what I mean? Because then you could just throw it in the oven, have a cord sticking out of it, and you know, it is what it is. But uh I have researched it once. Maybe someone out there knows of a motor that can run at 500 Fahrenheit.
+
+[16:36] If they do, please let me know. Nice. Cool. I think you put me in uh the right direction here. I also just wanted to uh let you know my brother table top table top, tablecloth Tom.
+
+[16:48] Uh got uh spinzall over at the Met because he's the beverage guy over there. So nice. I just thought that'd be a cool thing to let you know. Oh, we appreciate it. Uh I appreciate you guys.
+
+[16:58] Keep it spinning, thanks. Uh yeah. All right. So and by the way, caller, clearly a Patreon uh member. And if you want to call in your questions uh to us or to Matt, uh calling your questions to 917-410 1507.
+
+[17:12] That's 917-410-1507. And uh John, why don't you tell them how they can become a Patreon member or what they get? Go to Patreon.com slash cooking issues, uh become a member. We got a couple different membership levels, including free, um couple paying ones too. You get access to our live video feed to the phone number to call us, prioritize questions being answered, uh discounts with great vendors that we work with, like Matt at uh Kitchen Arts and Letters.
+
+[17:37] Um and yeah, just a whole bunch of great things, access to Discord and yeah, go to Patreon.com slash cooking issues and check it all out. Cool. Cool. Uh Quinn, what do you got for us this week? Uh see we got five fresh chickens from our farmer friend.
+
+[18:00] So we did a I think pretty well executed, like high-needed uh chicken rice. We even got like some frozen panda for the broth. So basically it's a poached chicken, chilled, sliced, and then you make the rice with the resulting broth. You know, pretty simple, but uh, you know, a very nice dish. And I think I think it suited these sort of like very free range, you know, less industrial uh chickens.
+
+[18:40] It's taken me, it took me a long time to kind of learn to appreciate Hannanese chicken. Nils Norin, my you know, old uh compatriot, the French Colonial Institute. I don't know whether he ever actually started the restaurant, but he did uh like years of work on trying to get the perfect low temp chills, like high throughput uh recipe for that. Because his, you know, wife is like uh I think she I know she's Chinese, but I think she's Singapore Chinese. And so, like, you know, they he used to do a really good, really, really good job of it, but like really pure, simple broth, really simple, really pure.
+
+[19:19] But it took me a long time to be like, yeah, this is what I want. I mean, I'm I'm straight up American, so like I like, you know, I like when I want a cold chicken, I want chicken salad. Because you know what chicken salad is? Anybody? Anybody?
+
+[19:32] Delicious. Delicious. Delicious. Oh my goodness, this chicken salad delicious. But like, you know, typically an American chicken salad, there's none of the soft skin, none of that stuff.
+
+[19:43] So uh I don't know. I don't know. You know, and the little gilled part in those cold chicken things can be tough for some people. I no one in the United States, very few people in the United States, not no one. Going back to the French weasels, no one likes an aspic.
+
+[19:56] You know what I'm saying? No one's tucking in to a you know, you're like, you're like, ew, you know what I want? Uph en aspique. You know what I mean? Like a just a a soft boiled egg in a block of in a block of meat jello.
+
+[20:10] You know what I mean? It is making a comeback, though. Why? It is. No.
+
+[20:16] Some uh new like French beast or kind of places have been putting in on their menus here in the city. Do you remember see the uh the old uh Saturday nive uh crystal gravy? No. It's like that. Crystal gravy was this thing where they were saying that they're by the way, it's kind of funny for someone who like we sell stuff to clarify things with a centrifuge, so it's making fun of like trying to make everything clear and color like Pepsi clear.
+
+[20:36] Remember that? Oh god. Yeah. And so they are pretending that they've made gravy clear, but really they're just pouring corn syrup over everything. So it's this incredibly thick, viscous.
+
+[20:46] And my son Dax, this is crazy, like gross stuff is coming back. Dax sends me, they're now selling thick water, which is just thicken, I swear to Christ, thickened water. And Dax sends me a picture of a gallon jug of this stuff. And I remember specifically when I was teaching hydrocolloids at the French Culinary Institute, thickening just plain water so people could taste the texture. And it was one of the most vile taste experiences that you could ever have.
+
+[21:16] It's just vile. Thick water is vile. You know what I mean? And people are paying for this? Oh yeah.
+
+[21:21] Well, that's like, do you remember? Well, probably not because hopefully you were insulated from this, but there was a there was a thing called a raindrop cake. Did you ever see this? No. It's just a block of agar.
+
+[21:34] Just a block of agar in the shape of a giant ball. And then people are like, oh, it's it's a it's not like A, not cake. B, not good. C, why? See, you know, D, like everyone knows how to use agar.
+
+[21:48] You're not inventing anything here. You're just dumb. You're just a dummy. And it's not even a good hydro for that. You know what I mean?
+
+[21:56] Like they could have done gel-and. They could have done, they could have done anything other than what they had done. Nightmare. Uh how the heck did we get on this? What were we talking about?
+
+[22:06] What the heck happened? Quinn's chicken. Oh, yeah. GLA, aspic. Yeah.
+
+[22:10] Oh, that's nice. So did you enjoy the fact that it was uh was it tougher? How do you know how old the chickens were when they were slaughtered? I don't know, but I I can find out. Yeah.
+
+[22:21] Um I think they would probably have been have been tougher with like a traditional sort of Western quick cooking method, but I mean, I wouldn't rank on the well, I wouldn't rank on our cooking techniques just because you don't like our industrial chickens. I mean I'm saying like tougher chickens don't handle quick cooking as well. I don't know that that's I've had like when I've had tough chickens, even when they're braised, they are tough as all get out. They're tough, tough birds. You know what I mean?
+
+[22:52] Like I guess there's a middle ground. These weren't super tough. Yeah. I mean like a stringy, like a stew chicken? Oh my god.
+
+[23:00] No, no. These weren't these were not like old, old chickens. They were just well raised standard uh cornish cross. Again, this farmer we get them from has a bunch of like weird, interesting breeds, but he like sells the living chickens to people. The living chickens is uh sounds like a band, the living chickens.
+
+[23:24] Uh so I had something with chickens. That's just erased from my mind. It's gone. I had something with chickens, but it doesn't matter. It's over now.
+
+[23:34] They'll be back. They'll be back. Uh oh, you know what I've never I've I've bought what they call in uh Asian markets around here, uh fowl, which are older birds. But I don't know that I've ever bought like an old school spent like that where it specifically said this is a spent laying hen, like a very, very old, to do like the classic Jewish grandma chicken soup. I don't think I've ever cooked that myself.
+
+[24:00] Yeah, I don't know where you find them unless you're near a farm. Yeah. Or an industrial laying operation. Yeah. But Quinn, that's what you should do, man.
+
+[24:07] Just f ask this farmer. See if you can get a really old spent laying. If you're lucky, it'll have like the eggs left in it. We're we're asking this guy for all kinds of crap. Yeah, but listen.
+
+[24:19] He does occasionally process one of the weird chickens. He's gut-laying chickens. He's also got emo. Right, but you know, it's a little large. It's a lot of soup.
+
+[24:29] But listen, I encourage you, for my sake, when you get the spent layer, just follow a traditional recipe so you can see what the bird itself does. Like, I don't know who, Joe Nathan? Who would you who would you look at? Joe Nathan's book? Or yeah, or Jenny Grossinger.
+
+[24:47] Yeah. All right, there you go. Go back before industrial chicken. Pre pre industrial. Yeah.
+
+[24:54] Pre-industry. I'll tell you what, Popeyes takes industrial chicken and makes a delicious fried chicken product out of it in a very mass market sort of way. You know what I mean? I mean, if you like fried chicken, I mean there are better fried chickens, but is there a easier better fried chicken to source? No.
+
+[25:14] No. No. No, there's not. Easier than Papa's. Oh, I've got a live I have a live update from my father about laying chickens.
+
+[25:23] Okay. Apparently the farmer usually sells the laying chickens to other people. They do not get old in his possession. No. Well, you have to find a different farmer then.
+
+[25:37] Because that's the that's the thing. And in fact, when you slaughter it just right, you have the eggs that are left in it when they get slaughtered, right? That's the old thing, and you have like the apparently there is the troublesome roosters. There are different applications. Yeah, no eggs, no eggs in a rooster.
+
+[25:52] No, no eggs in a room. We can make a I don't know that those do you know, Matt? Were those originally made actually with roosters, or is it just called that? I don't know. That's a I mean, it's a fair question.
+
+[26:04] I I would think somebody who knows more about French than I do might have some insight, but I John, Johnny John. I don't know. I think I've only s seen or heard about it being used with old spent. I mean, it's gotta come from somewhere. The issue with the like roosters is there's just not that many of them.
+
+[26:24] Exactly. Yeah, because you know them all. You don't want them. They're vicious creatures. Chickens were fighting birds.
+
+[26:29] You know what I mean? They're vicious. Me not the ch but that the roosters. Mean. Uh and so you just don't have that many around because they cause problems.
+
+[26:38] You have like one or two, and then the rest get chummed up when they're babies. Anyways. Uh what about you, molecules? You haven't chimed in yet. What's that?
+
+[26:52] You haven't chimed in. What do you got for the week? The Jack of the Week in review. Yeah, yeah. I talked about cooking uh I made the minced minced lamb and meat and uh green lentils and spinach.
+
+[27:04] It's delicious. Minced lamb meat. That's about it's really the only interesting thing I did in food, though. So Harold McGee talks about this Turkish lamb where you have to sit there with your hands for like an hour and just keep squeezing it and make it into a paste. And he says it's great, but just it sounds repulsive.
+
+[27:22] The idea of eating something that I can picture someone sitting there and squeezing with their hand for an hour just doesn't seem to me to be what I am looking for. I would prefer to have it and then later hear how it was made, you know. It it would not be the thing I would leave you with on a menu description. Yeah. Or although maybe it was less time than that, but just I can picture McGee making the hand motions.
+
+[27:44] So he's talking to you in like his standard McGee voice, and then he's got his hands and he's sitting there just like mangling, like, you know, squeezing this like uh like like uh not uh what's the word? It's uh you know, air meat. You know what I mean? Uh yeah. Sort of conjures the act of milking a cow and uh manipulation of the other.
+
+[28:04] Yeah. Yeah. There's also something you might not want to think about a lot. Yeah, no. Especially not now that people are getting sick milking cows from uh it's not uh no no uh no no no no future bandame talk.
+
+[28:17] Nothing, nothing. Okay. Uh all right. So what do you got to talk to us today? We'll get to some more uh questions later because one of them you might have something to say about, but uh let's let's before we run out of time, let's uh let's get to some classics in the feel from last year.
+
+[28:29] This is this year's classics. Uh well, this year's classics. Um this list is available on the Kitchen Arts and Letters website uh and our blog. But I um I came up with uh 14 books uh that I thought came out last year that were really outstanding. Uh some of them are people I know you've had here on the show because we have discerning insights.
+
+[28:49] Uh and plus we also ask Matt. Well Usually it's like, what do you think after you've already sort of made the approach? So I I don't usually talk you out of too much. Um Jim Meean's uh bartender's pantry. Question on this.
+
+[29:07] So when he shipped the book, when he literally shipped the book to individuals, it comes in the coolest book jacket package ever because his co-writer is a night, an industrial designer. Yes. Do you have it like that in the store? No. We that that was something he held back.
+
+[29:25] He gave us a lot of sort of fun and funky stuff. There were buttons and bookmarks and things. Did you get the sharpies? I saw the Sharpies. They signed the books in the store with the Sharpies, but we didn't get left in it.
+
+[29:36] Yeah. No, sorry, go ahead. They had a lot of fun with that. I uh this is um this is very much about understanding the ingredients you're using, not simply the spirits, but uh everything else that you might be putting uh into a drink. Um I think it's a it's a step forward.
+
+[29:54] It's not a beginner's book. Uh it's a book for somebody who has already made some investment of time and effort. Uh, and I think it rewards that really well. Um Steve Sando's bean book. He was on.
+
+[29:59] Yeah. Yes. Holy cow. Totally made me feel like I'd been slacking for the last 25 years, not cooking, you know, anything other than the three bean recipes that I make over and over. Which are um there is a lentils like Boston baked beans from uh the Joe Beef, the first Joe Beef book.
+
+[30:25] Oh, yeah, no, I don't know, yeah. Yeah, it's really it's great. And I hate Boston baked beans. Really? Because it's way always way too sweet.
+
+[30:31] Well, theirs isn't too sweet, it's got a little bit of maple syrup. What's the restaurant that was famous that went out of business in Boston that you can still buy all of their bean pots on eBay? Oh, what's the name of it? It was one of the oldest restaurants in the country. Lock Ober.
+
+[30:43] What? Luck Ober? I don't know. I'll have to look it up. Um, but A, for me, they're not from Boston.
+
+[30:49] It's Maine. And I, you know, he Sando does not like baked beans either, as you probably are aware. And so he gives I love his book, but he gives them short shrift in the book. Does not like I I told him to his, well, not to his face because he was virtual or not virtual, but you know, remote. I was like, you don't even say what kind of molasses he is.
+
+[31:14] What's wrong with you? You know what I mean? Like he's like, okay, okay, okay. You know what I mean? It's like he wants you to buy this Indio oregano, which by the way, is delicious.
+
+[31:22] Delicious. Like uh Wiley came over, Wiley Dufranc came over to my house, and we were making, I forget what we were making, but I was like, here's some oregano. And he's like, this is fantastic. I want this for my sauce. I'm like, well, you can buy it.
+
+[31:34] Just go to Rancho Gordo. And I also gave Wiley the banana vinegar. Have you tried the banana vinegar? I haven't. Really, really good.
+
+[31:40] Seriously. Okay. Really good. But according to the reviews, keep it in the fridge because it keeps moving and it doesn't necessarily move in a good direction if you don't keep it refrigerated. Ah, okay.
+
+[31:50] Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I so I tried a lot of stuff out of the book. The book makes you want to try a bunch of beans. And as you say, Matt, it makes you be like, oh, you know what I mean?
+
+[31:59] Yeah. Because it's it's just it seems like such a basic thing, a basic staple, and it's all fresh. So it totally wakes you up. And it, you know, and I think it can be infectious, that kind of like, all right, beans, I took them for granted. I was like making the same thing over and over again.
+
+[32:16] What else am I doing? I I think any book that gets you out of a rut and out of a groove with something you think you know is triply valuable. I finally bought uh Scarlet Runners. Good. You ever cook the Scarlet Runners?
+
+[32:30] I don't think I have. I don't think I have. So they're one of those interesting ones where they go, they they there are two textures of done. So you can have like you can have it like be relatively starchy, like almost eating all no, not really, but almost like a potato, and then you could take it more into regular bean land. Good.
+
+[32:48] Huh. Like, enjoy. Big too. Big because they're a runner bean, I believe. Anyway, so yeah, good good call.
+
+[32:57] Um I really liked Camille Becerra's Bright Cooking. This is a book that's built around the initial part is a a set of condiments and related sort of pantry items. And then the later part of the book is riffing with them. And again, that's the approach to cooking that I tend to favor personally. It's like I want something in the refrigerator that I can pull out and what do I do if I try it on rice?
+
+[33:20] What do I do if I try it on beans, you know, pasta? And it's very good. It's very versatile like that. And it didn't feel like I was seeing stuff that shows up in lots of other places. So but it's stuff that's friendly to do at home, but like Chef mindset, like her, like, you know, she's professional.
+
+[33:35] So like, you know, it but is it more like stuff that like is it more her professional approach towards ingredients that are home, or is it more like home style stuff? The dishes that she actually offers are fairly professionally styled. Um the and the condiments, you know, you're making a little bit of extra effort to prepare them. They'll most of them keep just fine. You don't have to worry about like using them in three or four days.
+
+[34:02] And uh so if you're in the market for like I have to put dinner on the table in 20 minutes kind of stuff, you've got to make that long-term investment in the condiments to do it. So I mean, I think it's very restaurant-oriented in the way that she she approaches uh how she handles things. But I mean, you've got some sauce and you're like you've already made it, yeah, you throw it on some noodles and bingo, you have that that quick dinner. Or you can put it into something more elaborate because it'll definitely reward a more thoughtful approach too. Speaking of noodles, I bought a MRE style Sichuan hot pot at the local store the other day.
+
+[34:43] And what you should not do when your family is there and they're not prepared for it is smell the gas coming out of the okay, so you ever seen one of these things? Self-heating noodle bowls. You ever never seen these? It's like a it's like an MRE for Sichuan hot pot. And you put the thing in, and then this crazy steam comes out, and I smelled it.
+
+[35:05] I was like, oh you know what? And and then I so I pulled out a torch and I lit it, making hydrogen gas. Did not go over well with the family. How much did you pay for this thing? I don't know like nine bucks.
+
+[35:13] I just wanted to see what it was like. It was also crazy, crazy mala and crazy hot. But you know. Anyway. Sorry, go ahead.
+
+[35:27] I'm glad you survived. Sauce on noodles. You said sauce on noodles, so you know. I was like, don't don't do that. Don't light, don't light don't smell a gas and then light side gas when it's in a plastic vessel that's heating an unknown MRE in a language that no one in your house can understand or read.
+
+[35:43] You know what I mean? Anyway. Safety issues. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[35:48] Uh The Crop Cycle by Shane Mitchell. Uh these are a series of articles that have appeared over the years on uh Bitter Southerner. Now this book, i is this even on Amazon? I didn't see it. No.
+
+[35:59] But it looks like well product it's like produced. It's not like a Southerner produces it. They sell it themselves. We sell it at Kitchen Arts and Letters. I think a couple of other indie stores do.
+
+[36:07] Wait, did I hear this? You have to you cannot buy it on Amazon. We we love books like that. Yeah. Uh no, I mean that's part of what we do is try to find things that are not gonna show up, you know, and enrich the oligarchs because they don't need to be enriched.
+
+[36:23] Right. So but talk talk about the so it's a series of essays, but like talk about someone is this the one that had like all kinds of crazy rando information that's cool in it? Or there's a couple of those in here. There I mean I think I haven't read her other what's her Magnum one, like strange foods far afield yet. Um I mean, over for the last 25 years or more, she's been writing, you know, in Sever and um other places about local food customs and about uh the people who maintain them, the people who keep them going.
+
+[36:52] Um and she's done uh Far A Field has articles about uh tarot farmers in Hawaii and about I think goat herds in India. Um I didn't check that out before I left. Goat herds, yeah. But I mean, you know, there are all kinds of local food ways that survive because somebody is is passionate about holding on to a tradition, and otherwise they might be left behind. Um Crop Cycle is definitely the American South, although she lives in Upper New York State.
+
+[37:26] She has a lot of family from from the South. Um she is writing about those people who keep those ways going. And sometimes it's um it's a whole community, and sometimes it may be just a few people who are who are holding on to these things. Um she's so perceptive and um and so able to get people to confide in her and to talk to her. She's a very patient writer and interviewer.
+
+[37:56] And um if you wonder about what we may not be in touch with because it's just not I mean, we live in a in a culture of immediacy right now. I mean, you know, with or without certain social media apps surviving this week. It's always like, what can you do for me in in 20 seconds? These are not those people. Um and she's she's preserving them and expanding the number of people who know about them.
+
+[38:27] And are there recipes as well or no? Or is it more just like No, I mean, there may be like an occasional illustrative recipe, but I don't think that's not really the point of the book. This is about who are what are these foods? What are people what are people doing to keep keep the old ways alive? Nice.
+
+[38:44] All right. Um The Editor by Sarah Franklin is a biography of Judith Jones, who was with Maria Groana Shelley, one of the major American cookbook editors of the 20th century. Um Judith was a very complex figure. She was also an important editor for literary books. Um Sarah had a lot of access to Judith, who was um not a very um forthcoming person in many cases, and she opened up a lot to Sarah.
+
+[39:14] And so did other people who were part of uh Judith's life. Judith was private in a lot of ways, and her willingness to talk to Sarah Franklin meant that other people around her who might have shut down for a biographer opened up. I mean because uh they would have been ostracized? Because Judith preserved her privacy uh in many cases. I mean um she was not she didn't like to be forthcoming.
+
+[39:40] When early biographies of James Beard were being written, Judith didn't want to talk about the fact that he was gay. And she shut down inquiries along those lines. So she was she could be fiercely defensive. Um for ill. And in this case, she she wasn't.
+
+[39:59] She opened up to Franklin, who um who had earlier done, she did a book three or four years ago, a collection of uh pieces on Edna Lewis. Um and I think that sort of established for Judith that Sarah was serious. So this book is is uncommonly rich because she had access to to things that biographers often don't have. And as a biography, uh if you're not necessarily a hundred percent in the food world as a page turner, is this gonna be a movie someday? Is this like gonna be the new uh whatever those movies are?
+
+[40:31] Um I would I would there's a there are a lot of elements that can make that happen. I mean, Judith was the woman who pulled the diary of Anne Frank out of the slush pile. Uh she edited Updike, she edited all kinds of big and glamorous names. Um her personal life was certainly rich and I won't say complicated, but it wasn't all an easy path for her. Uh I would probably have to be totally rewritten to make a movie of the week.
+
+[40:58] But she's I mean, she's a major figure. Nice. And uh and it's good that we have this kind of record. Because people like that who often stand behind the scenes have an influence that is sometimes unappreciated. Like Michael Batterbury.
+
+[41:11] Yeah. And that's something that comes out in actually in Sarah's book on Edward Lewis is how um Judith's approach to uh the taste of country cooking shaped everything that happened with Edna afterward. Uh maybe not all of it uh appreciated by Edna's friends, but it's what we have. Um and so knowing about who these people are uh can make a big difference to understanding how the whole cultural terrain gets leveled or shaped. The tastemaker.
+
+[41:45] All right, awesome. I I know this next one. Flavorama, Ariel Johnson, totally uh I think inspiring and fresh and creative. And there are people who and I'm not pointing any fingers, people who are brilliant in the way they understand things, who don't necessarily do a good job of explaining them to other people. She has both gifts, you know, like firing with two two pistols.
+
+[42:10] Yeah, you should go buy that. She also did the art. Yeah. Go buy it. You should go buy it.
+
+[42:14] What you should do is go buy it from Kitchen Arts and Letters. We have it. Do you have signed copies? Not right now. I have to call her up.
+
+[42:20] Yeah. Yeah. Get her back in. Exactly. Sold out at Christmas time.
+
+[42:24] Nice. Good job, Ariel. Uh Food of Southern Thailand by Austin Bush. Haven't you mentioned this one to me before or no? I don't think I did.
+
+[42:33] All right, go ahead. But um beautifully photographed book. He did a book on Northern Thailand um six years or so ago, won a bunch of awards. This one's too early to know whether it will win awards, but it is um enticing and immersive. And uh we don't have much about Thailand that really talks about the regional differences.
+
+[42:51] Uh so it sort of all gets lumped together like I mean it's more complicated than just what you find in Thai restaurants. But in this one, he's really sort of saying this is the southern cuisine, the coastal cuisine. Um, these are the things that shape it. Um I'm always in favor of something that uh that gives us better insight into the cuisine as it's experienced on the ground, as opposed to what we see in restaurants in New York. Right.
+
+[43:18] And he was like uh is another example of he l lived or is living in Thailand for a long time, similar to Ricker, but Ricker's north most of the time. And but he's put the time in. Yes. Right. And so, but also understands kind of our universe as well.
+
+[43:34] So it's kind of an interesting thing. Yeah, I mean, he grew up uh grew up on the West Coast, grew up in Oregon. I think he's now living in Portugal. I think he relocated in the last year or two. But um, long experience there.
+
+[43:45] So he's not just some guy saying, Oh, look, Thailand is fun. I will write a book. Yeah. That phenomenon happens often enough. But is this his second book on Thailand?
+
+[43:55] Exactly. Got the north, and I got the south. All right. Maybe east and west. I don't know.
+
+[44:00] You know, I've never been to Thailand or to Portugal. Me neither. Yeah. Need to go to both. I would like to.
+
+[43:59] Yeah. Happily. Uh Islas by Ivan Diaz. This is a book that links the cooking of tropical islands around the world. Uh when I first heard about this book, I was like, well, yeah.
+
+[44:18] Um but her approach is really interesting because she's she's approaching it by technique. Um I noticed one of the last chapters is is Pitt and Steam Cooking. Now, are they all modified to do like a normal human being? Or does she actually go out and be like, here's how you dig a hole in the ground and et cetera, et cetera. Because there are no good, real good books on how to learn how to dig a hole in the ground and cook a bunch of stuff.
+
+[44:41] I wouldn't sell that book on the basis of the whole digging. No. Is there a good book on digging a hole in the ground? It's a book on North Carolina barbecue. After the one that was done by the press that's mainly after that original Chapel Hill book from the early 90s that went through and did the North Carolina tour.
+
+[45:03] You know the one I'm talking about? Early 90s. No, this is one is later. There's a University of North Carolina press book. I think it's just called Carolina Barbecue.
+
+[45:13] I haven't looked at it in a while. I'd have to pull it off the shelf. But it does hole in the ground stuff. Like I want like real like dig a hole in the ground, get a sheet of zinc, the whole you know what I mean? I don't know about the zinc.
+
+[45:25] That's like Puerto Rico, right? Dig a hole in the ground, then you put a metal over, then you cover it over. Anyway, there needs someone needs to write the definitive book on how to dig a hole in the ground and cook a big hunk of stuff in it. I I would put a book like that in the window. Um I mean, this is I don't want to go off too far on this tangent about how I'm furious with uh with publishing this season, but every freaking book, every other freaking book is uh, you know, I'm an influencer, and here are my recipes.
+
+[45:55] And I'm like, do we have anybody here who has long-term experience and insight, or are they just pretty to look at? Um but yeah, I mean, I uh it's a I would imagine that there's a lot to be said about that from all kinds of, you know, what's the soil like? Yeah. I want like the bread builder's book, which was the original uh hearth uh how to build a uh uh uh uh Woodfired oven. Yeah, wood fired oven.
+
+[46:22] I want that for digging a hole in the ground. Are they both dead, Wing and Scott? Or just one of them? Didn't one of them die from bread building? One of them died.
+
+[46:32] I don't think the other one's dead. Anyway, sorry. I digress as usual. So uh but worth getting even though you wouldn't get it necessarily for digging holes in the ground. I mean, this is the book with the recipes from Ivanow.
+
+[46:45] I mean, those things don't fall from the sky. Right. So her research is uh is wide-ranging and um and thoughtful. And she's like understanding all the different factors and what you know, why is canned meat so popular in so many island countries and cultures. Yeah.
+
+[47:06] I forgot to print the last page, so you'll have to go through them without me looking at them. I am prepared. Um so we have Jang, uh The Soul of Korean cooking by Minju Kong, which is built around three core Korean sauces. Again, um Insider's Guide. Um, I like anything that teaches you to think about food from within the cuisine as somebody who uh has grown up within it does.
+
+[47:29] We didn't have him on, but we had JDS on. And he said he learned Korean for like a year and a half to write this book just so he could go hang out over there and know this stuff. So I mean I've read some of it. It is, yeah. It's I it's it's not the last word on Korean cooking.
+
+[47:51] You know, uh it's really hard to write their last book. It's not even meant to be, though. It's not meant to be. It's like it's a way in. Yeah.
+
+[47:57] Um, and particularly if you're the kind of person who is interested in knowing how it's done, but also wants to know how you can run with it. This is this is like, you know, this is the freedom path. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh my next book was McCatless by Gary He.
+
+[48:16] I looked at the pictures that you had on the on the website. It's literally just phenomenal. Going to all crazy McDonald's is. So he went to McDonald's all over the world. He photographed the inside and the outside of these McDonald's.
+
+[48:29] He photographed their menus, he photographed food from them. He's talking about how this enormous corporate behemoth has adapted itself to local cultures in Sweden and in Japan and in Italy and you know, and and in Germany, uh, and how it alters its menus, it alters the way it presents itself. It is a fascinating picture tour. I mean, just flipping the photographs is is really interesting to see all these different buildings. But it is insightful and a little scary.
+
+[49:05] Um, just how um how deeply they they change themselves to to fit in places and how adaptable they are. Does he play favorites? No, I don't think so. I mean, there are places where you can tell he's clearly sort of enjoyed a particular menu item more than others. Like anyone that you remember, like Kazakhstan's got the best.
+
+[49:27] You know what I mean? I should have I should have looked that up. I didn't, I didn't. Um the book comes in two versions. There's sort of a standard one, and there's one that comes in a slipcase that looks like a fry bag.
+
+[49:37] Ooh. So it's is that the one with the different color paper, or do they both have the paper? They both have the different colored paper on the spine, yeah. So it looks sort of like a wrapper. Oh, nice.
+
+[49:46] Yeah, I appreciate it. It's really thoughtfully designed. Um he's this is years and years worth of work. Um so much McDonald's. You know, now that Morgan Spurlock is dead, he's now the historical authority on the maybe a little less um jaded when it comes to McDonald's.
+
+[50:02] Yeah, yeah. Nice. Well, like I said, he's been to all these McDonald's and still keeping the faith. So he's not a hater. No, he's not a hater.
+
+[50:08] He's not like that famous guy who wrote the book on camouflage but hates the military. I don't know that one. Yeah. Or the guy, you know, what's his name? David King, who's now dead, but graphic designer who is like uh the like wrote the books on uh the uh imagery of Stalinist Russia, uh but hated him because he was a Trotskyite, but also hated capitalism.
+
+[50:33] So I got these like like you know Wow. Yeah. He's like Trotsky was the guy. Come on. I no, I don't think Gary is secretly a Burger King guy.
+
+[50:40] Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Uh Wendy's. Wendy's. Or Wendy's, yeah.
+
+[50:46] Uh Nerdmaker 2, Tales from the East Indies. This looks amazing. I wanted to read this book. Christopher Tan. So this is his second Nerdmaker book.
+
+[50:54] He is an incredibly enthusiastic uh home baker, obviously remarkably skilled. And in this book, he's like the crossing up all these different influences and techniques. Um the book is crazy adventurous. He's based out of Singapore, you said, right? Based out of Singapore, yeah.
+
+[51:16] Uh he has a more traditional book called The Way of Quay, which is about a particular Singaporean dessert that is sort of occupies this unusual space between cake and pastry that is used to be a home thing that is becoming industrialized or at least restaurantized, and he's making a pitch for in that book for keeping it alive as a home practice. But in this book, this is a more personal, you know, exploration. And he's like, you know, bouncing off all kinds of influences. Um and he's just so creative and uh and so knowledgeable. And uh yeah, it's beautiful, beautifully photographed.
+
+[51:55] Comes from a really good publisher in Singapore called Epigram Books. They um they do some really interesting localized publishing. Uh we import from them quite regularly because uh because of the strength of of what they do there. So on like an import like that, how much is that stuck to cost? Uh I think it's like 55.
+
+[52:13] Yeah. So I mean 30 percent, 30, 40 percent of that is air freight. Yeah, yeah. Um we just we can't put those things on boats because you just never will know when they're gonna show up. Yeah.
+
+[52:24] Yeah. All right. Um also an import is Timur, uh Stories and Flavors from Nepal. Now, this one, I looked up the one you had on your thing, and I was like, okay. For those of you who don't know, it's it's lichen, which I forget the name of, the lichen, that is like apparently like the ingredient in this area with this group of people, the limbus, right?
+
+[52:48] And then uh a meat, I'm forgetting what it was, like lamb. You cannot source this unsourceable, but you're like, oh, I want it. And you know what I mean? Like and this guy is telling you that there are like 40 different regional and ethnic cuisines in Nepal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[53:05] So that's that's his focus. But there are recipes, but they're not watered down. They're not like you could substitute chicken. No, no, I it's not about that. It is totally uncompromising.
+
+[53:16] Yeah, yeah. Um, if you're a fan of like, oh, snap, you know what I mean? Because that's all the kind of stuff that I like, you know. It's yeah, no, this is he's not making any concessions to the fact that you're not in Nepal. Yeah.
+
+[53:28] You should get off your ass and go to Nepal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and if you you know, you have the the courage. Um we need that kind of documentation in English because it is so hard to find it for so many places. Um this is really thoughtfully done, it's attractively designed.
+
+[53:44] He didn't just sort of, you know, type it up and send it to the local version of King Kos or FedEx and have it run off. It's a it's a good piece of book now. I like how you're bringing Kinkos back. That was a place we used to have to go get copies. Yeah, that was Yeah, yeah.
+
+[54:00] And I was, you know, so I went to college in 1981. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um used to be that they would make you buy a whole bunch of books, but then most people couldn't afford to buy all of the books for your class if you were only going to have one chapter. So they semi-legally the professors would take their collections to Kinkos and copy the section that you were supposed to read, and then you would buy these thick binders that were like one chapter from like 30 books. They're huge, huge, and you would pay like quite a bit of money.
+
+[54:29] Yeah. You know what I mean? But then you have to carry around this like stack of crappily bound zero well, not what are the copies, photocopies, you know what I mean? Uh for the whole semester. And that's the way life was, because there weren't no internet.
+
+[54:43] Yeah. And Kinkos was really smart because they always made themselves look like they were the local print shop. Yeah. Because their service was bad. Well, you know, if your stoner friend dropped out, they could probably get a job at Kinkos.
+
+[54:59] Yeah, and they could continue to read all the good stuff. That's right. Even if they weren't doing the good job. Exactly. Yeah.
+
+[55:05] Um Wild Axe Apple Exhibition, right? So the I've talked about this, I think, on this show before. Um periodically, they tried they've tried to do it annually, but there have been interferences. This group of people who who wander the world looking for Apple sports or abandoned orchards, find um unique or unusual apples. Maybe they're heirloom, heirloom varieties that have been forgotten that are growing in places.
+
+[55:36] Sometimes they find them in like the parking lot of a hospital. This tree that's producing an unusual and remarkable fruit. They get together, they photograph them, they um they describe the texture and the flavor, uh, whether it's, you know, keeping apple, whether it's a cider apple. Um they're beautifully photographed. It's um God.
+
+[56:00] Bad time for a blank spot. Mullen. Yeah, after you, yes. But I don't have that page here, but yeah. Yeah.
+
+[56:06] Um but the beautiful photography. The other thing about it, you know, for those of you that look at it, the ph photography is is, you know, beautiful, but it like in the style of but modern like beach from 19505. You know, if you but if you have the essay Beach, which of course you should have, uh, or you know, Burford's book or any of these books um on apples, like uh well not Burford, but the old ones that are written by pomologists, pomologists don't go as and it's they're only writing one or two sentences on these apples in the book on their taste, but they're written by people who like to eat apples and or use apples. So it's not it's not only because then it's like this is the date that it this is the date that it uh flowers, this is what it needs to be pollinated next to, subacid spritely. You know what I mean?
+
+[56:49] Like and that's it. Like they're describing like the taste like they're like powerful strawberry note, uh, you know, red of pineapple, like it's going off like people who are clearly apple lovers. So, you know. Um and they're hypnotically beautiful, and they're not um they're not cleaned up for industrial. So is this is this uh paper or or hard?
+
+[57:10] This is paperback. Okay. And say and because it's not that many apple varieties per year that they select, correct? Correct. Yeah.
+
+[57:17] And so how much like uh is this is this the size of like the Brooklyn Botanical Garden books or bigger? They're six by nine. So that's Brooklyn Botanical, isn't it? Maybe Brooklyn Botanical is slightly smaller. By the way, you like you like those Brooklyn Botanics.
+
+[57:32] I mean, like not that they're like fantastic books, but just as an idea, those little things. Yeah. And by the way, Brooklyn Botanical Gardens, uh the apples to what is it? The apples to grow and what is it? They have an apple book wherein they recommend that you get super dwarf uh super dwarf uh stock and make hedgerows out of zillions of varieties of apples.
+
+[57:54] And to this day it's still a goal of mine eventually. The apples to grow and what's it called? Anyway, uh there's no fabulous tubers, which is their other one. Hidden treasures. Anyway, go ahead, sir.
+
+[58:06] And finally, uh Xiaofan, Breakfast in China by Michael Zee. We don't know a lot in English language books about Chinese breakfast, and this is this is fascinating. Uh so much detail in there from all over the country. All right. So uh I will have to we'll check you check all of those out.
+
+[58:24] But like it's which percentage of these are this like you must go to. I mean, they should all go to you. And we have do we have do we have discounts on these for our people? I will set that up. Um I will do that within the next hour once I get back to the store.
+
+[58:37] Uh question that you might have an answer to. I hesitate to ask this question, but do any of you have favorite recipes for spam? I've been a lifelong enthusiast. My father got me started at a young age with spam and eggs. But I'm gonna get that too.
+
+[58:48] But I only had one minute. Yeah. Uh wondering what if anything you can do with it, obviously make Masubi, right? And obviously go read this is hor uh see the movie, this is Hormel uh from 1964. Go to 1140 uh minutes where they talk about making spam and check out their analysis unit, which I swear to God is called the anal ray unit.
+
+[59:07] And they can do 350 cans of spam a minute, which is 504,000 cans of spam a day. But uh, what do you think about a spam cookbook? Do you like the Hormel one or do you want Hawaii Cooks with Spam local recipes because Hawaii is the spam land? Hawaii is spam land. That's where I would go if you uh if you want to see what the enthusiasts are.
+
+[59:25] And uh which you should. And a question for you. I'm reading a cheesemonger's history of the British Isles by Ned Palmer at the recommendation of at Andos uh here in the Discord, and it's quite nice. I'm wondering if I can read a similar book about French cheesemaking without having to learn French. Palmer repeatedly makes it sound like France is the world capital of cheese, which made me curious, which is unbelievable as someone my age, because when I was a kid, it was there was no question that France, it's only recently, thanks to the work of other people that France isn't known everywhere as the undisputed capital of cheese.
+
+[59:53] But go ahead. All right, and last, sorry, sorry, uh Joe. Uh Matty writes saying, with small local mills seemingly in a boom looking for book recommendations on especially sourdough bread baking with fresh whole grain flowers. Uh any other classic or innovative sourdough books, welcome. Oh, any books on milling and what what's so the only one in milling one I know is really is the uh is uh Leonti's book.
+
+[1:00:25] Leonti's book, which is out of print, unfortunately. It's called the Flower Lab. Right. It's not impossible to find uh online. Um the Hayden Flour Mills person has a book, but it's not really about milling, right?
+
+[1:00:34] Yeah. Um and the milling aspect of it is the hard part. There are books that talk about using specific local flowers. Um, you know, Mother Grains by Roxana Julia Pat. Zach Culper's Bien Qui sort of urges you to do it.
+
+[1:00:49] Uh Richard Hart's bread book talks about experimenting with local flowers to understand how they're different. But I mean, his point of view is that whatever scientific analysis you get, you still have to work like hell with the things to figure them out. Because there's so much that isn't filled into it. If I ever finish book two, that's gonna be a big part of it. I'm still milling strong, still going through hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pounds of wheat.
+
+[1:01:12] The people are waiting. Oh God. All right. You shouldn't feel guilty or anything. And yeah, right.
+
+[1:01:17] Uh all right, so I think it's all we have time for. Uh we're all good? Matt, thanks so much for coming on. Delighted. Thank you for having me.
+
+[1:01:23] Remember, people, when you're going to buy a book on cooking, which you should do, consider buying it from Kitchen Arts and Letters. Yes, please. Yes. Thank you. Oh, Peterson, go to Peterson's website.
+
+[1:01:32] James Peterson selling all his cookbooks. Go to it. James Peterson. Peterson books. Go.
+
+[1:01:29] Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City. New Stan Studios joined as usual with John. How are you doing, John? Doing great, thanks.
+
+[0:20] Yeah, everything good? All right. Everything's great. God. Got uh Joe Hazenrock in the panels behind me.
+
+[0:25] What's up? Oh, busy studio. Welcome. Nice, nice. Uh, upper left, left, Quinn Fuse.
+
+[0:31] How you doing? Fuchile. What's up? Everything good? All right.
+
+[0:35] I'm good. Good, good. Yeah. Uh got uh in California, Jackie Molecules. How you doing?
+
+[0:42] I'm good. It's freezing here for California standards. So what is it? What does that mean, dude? 5345.
+
+[0:49] Shut up. You need to shut up. And uh uh nice surprise. I didn't think she was gonna be able to make it today. And Nastasia the Hammer Lopez, how you doing?
+
+[0:57] Okay. Feeling better? Nice, good, good. And uh today's uh special guests in the studio. Studio is completely packed.
+
+[1:04] So for those of you who don't know, this studio is an old, it's called New Stand Studio because it's an old newsstand, so it's very narrow. The only thing narrower than this place is Bar Contra. That's the only place on earth narrower that people are allowed into. Uh we have uh from uh Hanamakali, uh Alice Jun and John Lim. Am I pronouncing everything correctly?
+
+[1:23] Yeah, you nailed it. Uh and for those of you that don't know, uh, we're gonna talk a lot about it in a minute, but um I had had Makali before, which is uh, you know, a rice-based uh Korean alcoholic beverage. But when I went to Korea a couple of months ago, I was like, oh my god, oh my god, and I came back and I was like, I need to learn more about people making the United States, and hence they're here to to teach us. But uh before that, uh, what do we got? What do we got going?
+
+[1:48] Everyone you guys are invited to. What do we got going this week? What happened in the past week that's good? I know Nastasi probably doesn't have anything good because this last week's been a horror show, but aside from that, uh, what do we got? Anyone?
+
+[2:02] Um well, I mean, this past week has been really interesting. Um, dry January is coming to an end. Oh, okay. And yeah, certainly there is like obviously horrible parts about this week and existential questions that are floating, but it is driving a flock back to the bars and the breweries. Oh, yeah, yeah.
+
+[2:25] So you really notice a drop in January on the numbers? Drop in January, but this year there's a drop on dry January. So the inverse of it. Um it's been really nice to see. I mean, more people are staying liquored up in January because of the city.
+
+[2:38] Exactly. The community's coming out. Um there is at least a vibrancy that's coming back to the dining scene in Brooklyn. Um, at least like uh an uptick from 2024 and the end of it. So um we've been having a great start to the year.
+
+[2:52] Yeah, nice. Nice. Let's see. Do have I done anything. What about you, John?
+
+[2:55] You got anything from the restaurant? Anything good? I had a really delicious dinner at demo the other night, but that's a restaurant that's right next to mine. Yeah, it's delicious. Chef's Q.
+
+[3:03] Yeah, Q is good. Why would you sound so sad about how to do that? No, I don't know, because I just would no, I just wish I'd spent more time eating at other restaurants. But um demo is fantastic. Okay.
+
+[3:12] What Chef Q is doing there is really delicious, had a really delicious tripe dish. And uh his co-chef there, uh Dina is makes some of the best beans I've ever had. Really delicious butter beans with some kale in there, and just really simple and really fantastic. Yeah. Butter beans, huh?
+
+[3:26] Yeah. And kale? Yeah. Like I I know what it sounds like, but it really was fantastic. What do you mean?
+
+[3:31] What does it sound like? I don't know. To me, it just sounds a little like plain and boring, but it's just like it's the best. If if I had Steve Sando on speed dial, I would call him and tell him that. John says that butter beans is boring.
+
+[3:44] No, I love them, but it's just it's I don't know, they're just usually men. She just really makes them pop and they're fantastic. Any bean she has she makes it's great. So yeah. Hey this is not this is not a dried or any kind of bean but you know what I I miss every year?
+
+[3:56] Wax beans. I love a wax bean. Do you like a wax bean or a green bean? Wax bean. Wax?
+
+[4:01] Over green bean I think yeah. Yeah. With bacon or without bacon. I mean with bacon. Okay.
+
+[4:05] Yeah. Yeah naturally what form of green crap? Do you like parsley in that or some other form of green crap or no green crap? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[4:12] So basically what I'm feeling is wax bean, bacon, parsley. Answer. That works, yeah yeah. I can eat the heck out of that. Oh my God, I can eat the heck out of that.
+
+[4:19] All right, what about you, Jack? What do you got? Um I want to shout out Julia Turtion because it's been a super busy week for me and uh her cookbooks, man, that is really some good like you've only got, you know, an hour to slop something together at home. All right, so give me an example. What do you slop together in an hour?
+
+[4:38] The steak chicken and kimchi rice dish that she does, which is r I mean it's like the simplest thing on earth. It's literally just throwing unchopped kimchi, chopped up any chicken boneless and broth basically and hot. Wait, what's I don't need a cookbook for but what's uh what's any chicken? Like when you say any chicken, I'm like like what's any chicken? You mean like any part of any chicken?
+
+[5:04] Yeah, yeah. Just any little boneless chopped up, you know, whatever. I see. Yeah all the recipes are just made with with well at least in you know some of her books with with uh busy life in mind and uh it's been working for me. Yeah.
+
+[5:18] Oh, I'll give you one real quick. Uh you know how, and sorry, apologize. Everyone used the earmuff. This is a a bread thing. But you know, for years, I've years and years, I've been doing uh spent, I've been using, I I keep a starter, but I use spent plus yeast, right?
+
+[5:32] Because I'm like, I'm not gonna throw away, you know, you know, all of this starter and nobody can make that many pancakes and muffins that they have it used for all of the spent, right? But I've found that I've gotten the recipe down that I can do 100% no throwaway starter only baking once a week. Oh. Yeah. Zero waste once a week, fully risen.
+
+[5:54] A bit more hydration? Well, so like I'm I I'm doing uh high uh high extraction flour, so it's like uh roughly around 87% off of the berry, which by the way, I think everyone should think about the fact that like when uh when a when a stone miller gives you an extraction number off of sifting, that's different from an extraction number in a roller mill. Very different because when I'm throwing away the extraction that doesn't get part of the flour for me also contains endosperm, unlike the extraction in a roller mill, which contain the the stuff that's left out contains zero endosperm. So 70 something change extraction in a roller mill is much wider, much wider than 70% extraction in a uh in a you know stone mill. Anyway, uh longborn, sorry.
+
+[6:41] Anyway, so like uh forgot where I started. So yeah, so I just um that's the kind of flour I'm using. So the hydration is relatively higher. And I had been actually cheating and adding extra vital wheat gluten just for insurance, and I realized I I don't need it. You know what I mean?
+
+[6:56] And um and I don't need to do multiple risings and throwing stuff away. I can just do, you know, my starter's now very you know, fairly old, you know, like years and years old. It lives in the fridge all the time in the same container. So it's I don't know if it's stable. I mean, it's I don't have the knowledge to tell you whether it is or it isn't, but uh, you know, I feed it the same way every time, and I always take out uh and then I add, you know, my I'm a one-to-one starter.
+
+[7:26] I add an equal amount of so if I take 200 starter, I add 200 of flour, 200 of water, I stay at 100%, no no salt, no nothing. I let that do its initial expansion, and then I one-to-one that. So if I have 200 of that, then I add 200 more of flour, and then I add um, or I can add a little more. That one's a little more wheel room, and then I take it to 78% hydration. Yeah.
+
+[7:51] Let it sit for an hour or two after I shaggy mix it, and then put the salt in. And I fit like with those kind of like abilities to give the the culture a kickstart, it rises fine. Yeah, it's quite resilient, right? Yeah, you know, rises fine. So I have a zero throwaway.
+
+[8:06] So like I'm super happy with it. It's just an extra, you know. I have to, you know, I need an extra six hours of thinking or eight hours of thinking ahead of time, you know. But other than that, so I'm stoked, you know. Uh anyway, all right.
+
+[8:21] So uh calling your questions to uh if you're listening on Patreon, uh 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507. Uh and right, I got a thing. Oh, Quinn, you didn't sorry, man. My bad.
+
+[8:34] What do you got? Well, you were doing your story, you know. I apologize, man. I apologize. What do you got?
+
+[8:42] Well, actually, I have one small thing. The tragedy is the opposite of your story with the starter. My heirloom yogurt culture finally died after like three years. What killed it? And in what and in what way did it go did it go ropey?
+
+[9:03] Well it just we made yogurt. I always have a separate little jar that we use for the starter. We reset everything and then it just didn't sit. Huh. Do you know what the the the um this the culture I've never been able to keep alive my ever?
+
+[9:23] I've done it like four or five times is uh rice bran. Always it always goes bad on me. To be honest, I don't use rice brown, I use wheat bran because I have a lot of wheat bran. I broke it down and I've ordered some keeper grains. I'm gonna give it a go.
+
+[9:39] Give it a go. Some what some what kind of uh yeah, I'll you know what? I have rice bran now. Now that I have a rice polisher, I have rice brand. I can make a rice bran pickle.
+
+[9:49] I could see whether or not it's rice polisher game changer. I freaked Wiley out. Wiley Dufrey, my brother-in-law, came to my house and he's like, You want should we have rice? With I forget what I was making. He's like, Do you want rice?
+
+[10:02] I'm like, Yeah, sure. So I pulled out uh I had like a bunch of brown jasmine around. And originally I bought the rice miller for wheat because I do a lot of wheat experiments, but then I had this brown jasmine rice that had gone a little bit rancid. You know how when you open up brown rice and it's like it's got a little bit of that cardboard y stale smell. I was like, uh no, I'm not gonna eat this.
+
+[10:21] So I polished off the outside and it smelled fresh again and it was like semi-brown. I'm all about the semi-brown now. Yeah, it's a great idea. I did I did semi-brown um coup like a couple weeks ago. My son had his yearly sushi party, which is all he asked for, is yearly sushi party.
+
+[10:35] So it's an excuse to go buy a whole side of Oracle salmon and like, you know, cut it up, cure it and all this. Uh not cure it, but you know, uh get it ready for uh for uh sushi. And I have to make the rice, and he sits there and he fans it and he does all the stuff. And so this year I bought uh Nishiki Brown because it was the best brown I could buy locally, and you know, I didn't mail away because I'm too lazy. And uh I milled it to Sammy Brown.
+
+[10:58] He didn't notice it, but it tasted better. How big is the mill? Tiny. Oh my gosh. Tiny.
+
+[11:03] It's basically it's tiny. It looks like a little colander with a spinning doodle in it, and it and you can mill it however much you want. You can mill it from just taking the outside off in case, like like I say, it's a little bit rancid on the outside, you want to freshen it. You can even refreshen already milled rice. I mean, I don't know that that's really a problem, but you can do it.
+
+[11:22] Anyway. Well, it's interesting. So like you probably could do like for first experiments, but I'm told that the polishers for sake are very complicated. This is literally literally a paddle, just like wow. Yeah, and you want to put in the appropriate type of rice that has that dense core.
+
+[11:42] Otherwise it's kind of yeah, you know. Yeah, well, uh uh wait. Oh, I know we were just calling so calling your question to nine one seven four one oh fifteen oh seven. That's nine one uh seven four one oh fifteen oh seven. Uh if you're listening on the Patreon and John, why don't you tell them or or Quinn, tell them what you uh why they might want to join the Patreon.
+
+[12:03] You can take it away this time, Quinn. I feel like I'm the usual one who does it. Okay. Yeah. Uh well, the Patreon gets you priority questions answered.
+
+[12:14] Uh you'll get amazing promo cards. Although this time I forgot to uh tell Jo uh Joe that he edited it out. Uh last week or the previous week, we had um Matt Sarkwell, and he did actually give us a public code like issue ten, which is a public code. But if you are a patron, you'll get a better code. And in general, promo codes for Kitchen Arts and Letters and some of our other sort of friends of the show are only available to patrons.
+
+[12:53] Uh and you get to join the uh Discord as well. A lot of great uh conversation happening there. Yeah, and send your questions for n say this week I thought we're going to LA, but that got shifted next week, thankfully, so that we could have this uh mockley discussion today. And on the twenty-fifth of February, which is I think is that the next guest in, John, the twenty-fifth, we have Osai Endelin, who is the uh author of such books as the uh uh Black Flower Kitchen, which is the get that's the ghetto gastro cookbook. Correct.
+
+[13:24] Uh and also the quotes for the uh uh museum food and drinks African slash American quilt. Yeah, exactly. So you know, send in your questions for I don't know what it's like to write those books or right? Yeah, write those books, be involved in that kind of food history and culture about food writing and things like that. She's a really good author.
+
+[13:45] Nice. All right. Uh all right, so Makoli. Let's get into it. So uh like I said, I went to Seoul and I wanted to is I mean that there's such amazing cocktail culture that the drinking culture there is uh b bananas, like to say, but uh so I went there and I was kind of like, Oh my god, because the only uh you know, mockly I'd had here was pasteurized, a bottled, like uh for a long time, like stable, and anyone who I like it fine, you know what I mean?
+
+[14:19] But anyone who had it with me who had had real was like and was it like the sweet six percent ABV style? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, the most the most kind of thing that was real were the bowls they were serving them in. But uh so then when I went there, it's just I was shocked by the breadth of it. So before we get into the particulars of you know, you two and the company, why don't we just give a primer because I think a lot of people, myself included, like it's you know the incredible kind of uh diversity of products and uh kind of flavors and experiences you can get with rice-based spirits in Korea.
+
+[15:02] I think people don't understand why it's different from any other culture's rice-based spirit. Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's just start with the fact that there is almost a little more than 3,000 breweries in South Korea alone making makuli today. Not beer, not wine, not sake, right? Um this boom or this resurgence in Korean brewing from the country um didn't come out of nowhere.
+
+[15:28] There had been, you know, smaller, I guess, upward trends between, you know, the 1980s starting um starting in the 1980s, coming into the early 2000s with the export of mockly, um, where there was like a return to a product that was otherwise seen as cheap or for you know, workers or um you know, for like a sp certain type archetype of old man drink. An old man, right? Um, of a person in Korea. Um not made by the old man but drunk by the old man. Well both.
+
+[16:02] Really? Right, which is a really interesting history because makuli, like many other ta types of alcohol from all over the world, have a has a 2,000 plus year history in the country where a lot of it was produced by women, right? Um and there was as much style, if not more, variance in style, if not more than there is today. Um but the pasteurized makoli that you're kind of referring to, it's not just the fact that it's pasteurized that makes it taste the way it does. It's the fact that it's made often with you know uh bleached wheat flowers or tapioca starches, and on top of that, it's you know, brewed with pure refined enzymes and yeast inoculates, and then brewed hot and fast and then diluted and aspartan.
+
+[16:47] That's what gives it that specific taste that may not be to your liking or may not be to the liking of some drinking. I think it's fine, it's just not nearly as interesting. It's it's nowhere near as interesting, and it's not accurately representative of the deep history of the category, right? So the way we define makuli um is any grain based alcohol that is fermented with nouk. Um, explain what nook is because everyone's like, oh, koji this, koji that.
+
+[17:15] Explain explain this as its own ferment. Yeah, nuduk is typically a wheat and barley based inoculate, but there's other substrates that are involved. You know, there's nudics made with rice, there's nudics made with mung bean, um, but typically wheat and barley, and it's an inoculate of wild fungi, including aspergillus, but many, many variants of aspilaspergillus. Um, and then uh wild yeast in the same starter, as well as with tons of other bugs, but predominantly a lot of lactobacillus. Nuduk's unique nature is that one, it's a polyculture, right?
+
+[17:48] And not just like specifically within the fungi or specifically within the yeast, but across all families of the microbes. And it's the fact that it's all inoculated into one starter as well that makes it unique. Typically anywhere between a three to six months production process where the substrate is coarsely ground, wetted, formed into dense cakes, then inoculated either open air or in these rooms called undor. And then there's a process of cure inoculating the cultures, which takes significantly longer than when you're inoculating a single grain of rice, like with koji, because that fungi has to burrow through like an inch and a half to sometimes three inches worth of material, and then a long drying and curing process afterwards so that the starter can be used at any point, not immediately after. So there's some fundamental differences in the microbial makeup of the starter, especially when compared to a methodology like sake, or sake making and the use of koji.
+
+[18:56] And then it's the fact that you have a parallel ferment. You have the conversion of starch to sugar and sugar to alcohol truly from day one. It's not like that like beer or sake, where a yeast culture is typically pitched in a few days later, right? Or after the wart is made or after the maromi is made. So you have competition between these kind of trends or these types of fermentation from day one.
+
+[19:22] On top of that, it's a microbially diverse starter, so it's making lots of different flavor. Purity, like we talk about in the context of sake, is not chemically possible in Sioux, nor is it culturally wanted. Right. Yeah, you're not looking to it's there's no uh what's it called, like apotheosis of the polish. You know what I mean?
+
+[19:41] It's like and the philosophy is about balance. And then where a producer lands in that balance, whether it's like us where it's like dry and strong, or another producer that can be a bit more sweet, right? No matter where you land in that balance, that's then your style. Right. Some of them are high acid, some of them are low acid.
+
+[19:57] Exactly. And then you will get into a minute like do you filter, do you not, do you do it once, do you do it twice, do you do it three times? Do you do it with adjuncts? You know what I mean? Where is your rice from, et cetera.
+
+[20:08] Do you filter? How much do you filter? Do you know what I mean? Like it's just I mean, it's just the the size of the palette you have to work with is very large. You know what I mean?
+
+[20:20] Um but back to the Naurook, because for those, you know, who haven't like looked into this at all, I think well, another thing that surprised me is even within when so when you think of like obviously that you know, my friends like Rich Sheen and you know, they'll they have spent a lot of time thinking about like the variants even in Koji, but a lot of that is cultures that people are buying, especially because people frankly people are afraid of making their own koji. Yeah, I mean, aspergillas can be messed up. You know what I mean? Yeah. But you know, there people are, you know, inoculating various specific things, but there's such a huge variance, not just of the actual individual organisms that are in it, but just even of the styles of how they're made.
+
+[20:56] Like I was, you know, watching people like, well, we make, you know, we make things that look like uh like uh what are those? Uh they're square, what's that cereal that crackling oat brand? They look like ours look like crackling like crackling oat brand. You know what I mean? Like ours are round, ours are this shape, and like you know, ours have a dimple in the middle, and then like you know, this is how we stomp it flat, you know, to get it compressed, to get it super compressed.
+
+[21:17] You know, we do it in hay, we do it in this other leaf, you know, it's like all of these variants, and then from what I can tell, based on the little I know, each one of those little things has a huge impact in the in the the makeup of the culture and then the finished product that you have. Absolutely. And the and on top of that, there's even more complexity, right? It's the it's a question of where was that nuduk made, and where was the cereals from, and what were they exposed to, and what was the weather like, you know, um, and there is like a sense of it's not like terroir in the traditional sense of the word, like when it comes to vinifera and the way we talk about grape wines, but there absolutely is a unique microbial terroir that Nuduk is able to capture that other, I guess, more like post-industrial styles of starters cannot, right? And that's what we've been working on with at Hanamakali is trying to show people that this unique starter can also create products that are versatile, functional, easy to pair, um, and are relevant to our palettes today.
+
+[22:24] Um, and the way we do that is by you know, not obscuring the nudic with additional yeast inoculates and driving the flavor a certain direction. Um, or we don't, you know, of course, we don't like acidify and mineralize our um waters. Um, we don't add additives of any kind. And you know, one in part because that's not who like what we're trying to stand for as I guess a more premium Korean rice wine brand, but it's also like more simple of a philosophy. It's that it doesn't need it.
+
+[22:55] And that's just that. Yeah. Yeah. Um more. Oh, I read.
+
+[23:00] I mean, obviously it's alive because you ferment with it. But uh, you know, unlike, for instance, you know, if you're buying like a yeast pack from Y Yeast or whatever, right? Uh, like it changes even depending on how you store it. So I read this one person was like, don't buy it on, you know, in a vacuum package and then use it right away. It has to like come back to life, like hang it outside, like, you know, like let the sun hit it.
+
+[23:25] Popje, yeah. Yeah, it's a like sun sterilizer. Yeah, what is it? Is that I don't even know if it does anything. Um, but it's it's a practice that, you know, Korean culture and gastronomy is about preservation in all the forms, right?
+
+[23:40] And popcha is a practice that you'll find across, you know, um fermented foods, um, as well as Korean alcohols. Um, and it's just uh it's I think it's for peace of mind, you know. Like if there are happen to be like physical bugs, you know, in in your dried starter, whatever, it gives them an opportunity to kind of like scurry out. Um is some kind of example, like is the way they talk about it colloquially in Korea, but um, I think it's more about like um circulation, right? Like making sure that if there was any like weird gases or something that was forming in that vacuum seal, that you get to off-gas that and we'll introduce to the brew.
+
+[24:24] But you haven't specifically noticed like a difference between we can't, because we're you know, using hundreds of kilos of Nuduk sometimes, and it we have a 2500 square foot warehouse with a 20-foot wide driveway, like we can't. Um, but sometimes like when we do make flour infusions, we have a chrysanthemum and a hydrangea wine. If it is a sunny day, we'll take that opportunity to send the flowers out. I don't know exactly what it does, but it's nice. I mean I can imagine, but I don't know.
+
+[24:53] In other words, you know what I mean? Like you can we can hypothesize, but I have no idea. Yeah. There's plenty though of these kinds of stories from Korean brewing, because Korean brewing as an industry is not as um well resourced as the beer industry is or the sake industry is. Um and while there is so many incredible people that are dedicating their lives to the research of sur, we're, you know, frankly, like anywhere between 60 to at least 40 years behind.
+
+[25:23] Give them that give them that term again in case they're not used to the whole category name of uh Korean uh su. Yeah, yeah. S-O-O-L, S-U-L. Um, like when you say like sou, it can be beer or wine, but in this context, we're talking about it as the term for all Korean alcohols. Right, specifically including soju, including this style of mokli that we make, including the conventional style of mokali that's made, um, including blackberry wines and ginseng infusions, and you know, there's so much, like you said, breadth to the category.
+
+[25:55] There needs to be a word that encompasses it all. So we choose sure. Hey, uh John, should we taste something before we go further? Or let's do it. What do we got?
+
+[26:03] What's the what's the first thing we have here? Um so this is pot ju B-E-O-J-J-U. We're not the best at coming up though with the easiest names to say. I had this conversation with uh I forget who, someone on. I was like, the way that like Korean is written in like uh in like you know, like the romanization, right?
+
+[26:25] Yeah, yeah, that's the right word. The romanization, like I don't understand, like it seems like they made it more confusing for English speakers to pronounce it correctly based on the way there are better ways to write it with this set of alphabet. You know what I mean? But we love it. I mean, it's so cute.
+
+[26:42] But um it sounds like a cadet, that's like a the singer of a metal band, or maybe the drummer or something like that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like from Jersey. They're from Jersey. Yeah.
+
+[26:54] Um, but this is pochu, and pot the prefix is the pot from cherries, and then chew is the suffix for alcohol in Korean. So um this is a rice and sour cherry coferment, um, made in technically three stages. First two stages were rice, um, and then we allowed it to ferment for about four weeks. As it approached near dryness, we had these cherries, sour cherries sourced from Rose Hill Farm in the Hudson Valley. Um Matt, the cider maker there is a really good friend of ours and was overwhelmed with his summer harvest of cherries as always.
+
+[27:32] Nice problem to have. Exactly. For us, especially, not for him. Um, and we got them frozen so that the cell walls were pretty broken down. We um let them defrost, press them, put the juice into the rice wine and allowed it to ferment for another like three to four weeks.
+
+[27:50] Um we did clarify this wine because the sediment kind of made it taste a little bit too much like you know, cough medicine. Right, right. Um with the softening effect. You want to tell people like the like the choice? Do you let it sediment?
+
+[28:02] Do you not? Do you keep it in? Do you filter it? The names and that kind of ways they're yeah, absolutely. So technically, our pochu is a yakchu.
+
+[28:10] It's a clarified style. Another term that's used to describe clarified wines is chongju. But pochu overall is, I mean, I know that we're here to introduce Hanamakle, but this is actually like very unique and experimental, and fruit co ferments within the Sue context is not common. So and it's um I've become a pain in John's butt for this reason because I spread us out a lot of things. I think she refers to me picking up the materials or ingredients or whatever.
+
+[28:44] Yeah. Um but this is very modern modern idea, right? People like doing these kinds of things. And it is actually quite personal, right? Like Matt's a friend, this farm is a farm that we love.
+
+[28:56] Um this style of sou and co-fermenting with um fruits um is something that like at least this dry of a style of fruit co-ferments is definitely more of a personal exploration. But I think it makes for a beautiful wine. Yeah, it's very bright. And uh the you know, cherry sour cherry especially has uh like a very particular kind of uh backpalate acidity, like uh there's acidity on the front like normal, but like uh a back of the throat. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[29:28] Um what do you think, John? I think it's delicious. Yeah, no, it's really tasty. And uh what's this what's this rocking at ABV wise? Uh 15.
+
+[29:37] Yeah, so now 14. What do you think? 14? 14. Well, 14 is the new 15.
+
+[29:41] Yeah. I mean, I would talk about like you but like who's checking using these uh using like uh no rook in multiple fermentations or whatever, you can without any distillation get a very wide range of ABVs, correct? Absolutely. You can get pretty close to like 20, 22 if you're really pushing things, but you have to understand that, especially when you're using only Nuduk, right? That to get to that level of ABV, it requires technique and it requires long fermentation times.
+
+[30:12] But the industry today is about it uses yeast inoculates that are extremely powerful, you know, refined enzymes to the point where they don't even have to cook their starches anymore. They could ferment to like 16% in three days. So why would they ever choose to take like three months to get to 22? Right. Unless they can charge enough to make up for it, right?
+
+[30:31] Exactly. But there's not much of it. Can't do it to scale. There's not much of that, yeah. So that's what we're trying to do in New York is, you know, not like make the craziest, most expensive stuff, but um make things simply.
+
+[30:47] Do you watch that two-chain show, most expensivist? No. Oh, wait, is that the one with the he just goes with it over the most expensive, like, you know, dump caviar on it, like gold leaf, yeah, the most expensive, you know, sugar honey. So many people's surprise, we are not the most expensive mokle. Yeah.
+
+[31:04] There's another more expensive one on the well that that's the other thing. So before we go too much further, where can people here's the thing like people who don't live in, I'm sure there's people in LA doing it. I'm sure there's people you're doing it here, but um like where can people go to have this or how how can they experience what you're talking about? Um, there's mainly like two channels, or and now there's three channels through which people can experience. There's of course like getting the conventional types of products, um, mainly from the Korean grocery stores, Asian groceries, um, typically sourced from you know, similar importers and suppliers.
+
+[31:40] So you'll find mockly in most Asian grocery stores in some ways to be able to do it. Yeah, but that's stuff that's coming in, none of that's the live real stuff. No, and so there's, of course, the one channel is domestic producers. Outside of us, there's about six other domestic producers. All of them are fairly small and up and coming, but it certainly is more than four years ago when we started.
+
+[32:00] And they're in LA, they're in Seattle, they're in Georgia, so people can go to there. Um, and then there's like the imports, like um Kim Som or Kung Moon Kim, he's a master somalier turned um importer and started KMS imports, he imports, you know, several skews of um artisanal soju's and a few artisanal mocklees, yeah. But they are pasteurized. No, it's not the same. We are also pasteurized.
+
+[32:25] Right, but how long do you w let them stay? Well, we ferment we're fermenting for four weeks plus, but uh then we pasteurize them in bottle, typically within a week of bottling. And how good are how long do they stay the way you want them? They age beautifully because of their t pH, though, and their TA, not necessarily because they're pasteurized or not pasteurized. Right.
+
+[32:47] So you're doing one of the more high acid stuff. So you think the ones that are lower acid don't hold as well? No, they kind of disintegrate. Um and that's with any beverage, right? Like acidity is a pres like preservation method, and you know, being able to get a great finishing pH around 3.5, 3.6 is critical to the longevity of your wine, whether it's pasteurized or not.
+
+[33:09] So you don't believe, and again, like I've never made this stuff, so I don't know. But like so, you don't believe necessarily that it needs to be quote unquote alive when you're drinking it, as long as you're not uh dam damaging its profile or jacking it with something to stop it from moving. Right, exactly. So, like on the on the question of heat, for example, when you pasteurize, like pasteurization is not just a factor of temperature, it's also a factor of time. So you can pasteurize at slightly lower temperatures, but for a longer period of time and not affect the flavor as much.
+
+[33:41] And that's certainly what we do. We also like use steam, you know, instead of water baths, and we don't we use pasteurize in bottle so that the wine's flavor is preserved and it's not too rounded. Um then outside of that, like a lot of times when you're trying conventional or non-conventional makalies, you're gonna sometimes you're gonna get that like really round, like I ate too much milk chocolate kind of taste, and get that stuffiness in your chest. That's koji. It's not pasteurization, it's the taste of koji, right?
+
+[34:13] And it's the use of koji in makali that drives a certain type of flavor that people have grown to love. But what people need to understand is that that's relatively contemporary that sense of nostalgia for this product. Um it wasn't until like the 1960s or 70s when we started making mock ali the way we do now in the majority of the market. Prior to that, there was variance, there was, you know, style, there was um certainly stronger ABVs and lower sugar levels. But right now the median is like squarely 22 grams per liter plus, and it's insane.
+
+[34:53] Um you uh so you can ship then. Yeah, we can ship. Um we actually started up in COVID. So our whole plan, like every other beverage brand that starts up, is you know, a mix of wholesale and direct-to-consumer, but mainly it was wholesale. We were excited about getting to our restaurants and our bars before the launch, and then COVID completely wiped it out.
+
+[35:14] So we had to pivot really hard to direct to consumer. Pasteurizing our bottles makes it safe enough to be able to ship and grow that direct-to-consumer side of the business at a time where it was our only choice. Um like, and we did some crazy things back in the day. Like John, we no one no rice wine breweries were allowed to ship to California. Um John single-handedly lobbied the ABC.
+
+[35:40] Well, why was that? Was like the category just wasn't, they hadn't set it up or they they they made a distinction between rice-based wines and grape wines, which I which I called into question. I was like, that's not fair. And California being who they are, they agreed and they changed their regulation on that. So yeah, now we can ship DTC to California.
+
+[35:58] And so can we even for a Long Island kid, they changed the rules. I didn't tell them. I didn't tell them that. No, and so can men now all the new domestic breweries that are making sakes or soot or Xiaomi Joe or Sato or whatever they decide to make, if they're licensed as a rice wine brewery or manufacturer by the TTB, they can now just ship to California because of John Lynn. So it's really fun, like the the way we started.
+
+[36:24] All right, so speaking of star, let's go back. So we have the Naruk, but now what's the process? You crumb you have rice. You guys use a mix of uh sweet and and short grain or yeah, medium grain white rice and sweet white rice, both table varieties that we get from Pollet Farms in uh Maxwell, California. And how much does the rice matter?
+
+[36:44] The actual rice. The rice matters a ton, but um I think it's more in terms, obviously it's it's more in terms of starch content rather than flavor. But when you're fermenting with no duke and not yeast inoculates, that can like create certain flavors, um like I'm talking about like I don't know, a Sauvignon yeast strain, like making anything taste like Sauvignon, you know. Um without without that context, then the rice matters. So our rice is uh also farmed organically, which is quite rare for the staple grain industry.
+
+[37:21] It makes a huge difference in the quality of the rice and the health of your ferment, especially when you're not using inoculates. Um and then, you know, there's of course like the farming practices as well. Californian farmers, they have to dry farm because of the drought and water supply. But um dry farming is also far more sustainable than wet farming. It releases less methane into the air.
+
+[37:45] So it's not necessarily a flavor consideration in that case, but it is an environmental consideration. But to go back to the flavor, so when you're deciding on a mix, like what what is the impact of using like more sweet rice versus less sweet rice? Yeah, so more sweet rice than like we're solidly like you know, anywhere between a fourth to a third is medium grain white rice and the rest is sweet white rice. But some recipes call for all medium grain, or some recipes call for all sweet rice. And mainly, of course, it has to do deal with the available sugars and then therefore the available alcohol.
+
+[38:25] Um, but that density also affects texture. And so if you're fermenting, let's say a medium sweet wine from medium grain versus a medium sweet wine from sweet white rice, but you're finishing both at like, let's say 14 bricks, right? The textures of those two wines are gonna feel very different, and the aromas will feel much more different as well. So that those factors being a part of flavor and what we experience matter when it comes to rice selection and the quantities within. Right.
+
+[38:59] So you so you steam, you steam them all out, right? Um how do you cook the rice? There's many ways you can cook your rice. No matter what, you're washing, soaking, and draining your rice. Um and then there becomes variants.
+
+[39:13] You can grind your rice and make a porridge. You could not grind your rice and make a porridge. Porridges are typically saved for the first day of fermentation, what we call mitsu, the base ferment, or the pied de couve or whatever. Um and then uh then you can also start, like as you advance in your stages, if you are doing staged out brewing, you then come across methods like peksuki, which is grinding your rice and steaming it without additional water to make like a ground rice cake. Um you could also make pombok, which is grinding rice, striking it with boiling water, and you could parboil it, it not to complete gelatinization, but partially.
+
+[39:54] Um, you could of course steam your whole grain, but there's crazier methods. Like you can grind your rice, form donuts with it, boil it, and then smash it and ferment it to make like a solid pudding texture type of sou called iwa ju. How's that taste? Um delicious. Donut.
+
+[40:11] And it's great for transport back in the day when there wasn't refrigeration, right? Um, but there's many ways in which you can cook your rice. There is, of course, two parameters it boils down to hydration and surface area. So, how available are your starches, therefore, your sugars, or eventually your sugars for the ferment. And then hydration, how much new water are you adding to a brew via the method of cooking rice?
+
+[40:37] Um, typically, at least for us and for most commercial breweries or that are making traditional styles of alcohol, they're anywhere between three to five stages on average. That takes a week and a half to three weeks to build, but some recipes call for spreading those feeds out over you know an entire year, right? Can you explain for a minute that because I think this is also foreign to like most people's understanding of fermented alcohol is this multi-stage, multiple feeding kind of regimen. Yeah. So you have to imagine that like your nuduk is starting a parallel ferment, right?
+
+[41:13] It's converting starches to sugar and then sugar to alcohol. But if you were to introduce all of the potential starches available for the nudic right away from the very first day, it's very possible that it won't be able to convert all of the starches, and there's gonna be a lot of residual starch. Um and it's also very possible that you won't be able to get the ferment to the alcohol, I mean the yeast will die from osmatic pressure eventually, right? There's gonna be just so much sugar in the wine that the yeast will just peter out and die before it finishes. Um if you're not looking for a really uh lively uh potentially explosive, super sweet wine, then you want to start spreading out your feed so that that convergence can start following closer to a bell curve and be a little bit more elongated.
+
+[42:05] So while you're converting your sugars, right, you know, by the second or the third feed, you'll be reaching your peak sugar level instead of from you know day four or day five. And then during that time, that course of a week, your yeast culture has time to build up and flocculate. Um, and then at some point, right? The sugar conversion is not the dominant process, and then the alcohol production takes off. But by that point, the majority of the sugars have been converted.
+
+[42:37] So towards the end of the ferment, you'll have complete conversion of starch sugar and complete conversion of sugar to alcohol. If you're making dry and hopefully stable wines, that is the goal. So for the style that you're looking at, stable, it's always malt, you're never doing like a one-shot ferment or we haven't yet. It's also a huge waste of ingredients, right? Like you're just not gonna you're like you have to like double up on your rice quantities and you have to double up on your nude quantities, all to make like something that is very, very uh it changes a lot in bottle, let's just say.
+
+[43:18] Yeah. Um speaking, should we try something else or not? Um this is takchu. When you tell what what you're doing with the bottle, like boop-boop-boop-boop. Oh, yeah.
+
+[43:28] So we're doing we recommend a gentle shake on our wines, like a gentle tipping, um, especially because some of them have a little bit of effervescence. It's not like soji where you should like make a tornado with it, you know. Um, and the takchu um has in particular has a lot of sediment. Um, depending on, you know, this the brewery and the style that you're drinking, some may have more or less sediment. Let me go, John.
+
+[43:58] Um it's important to kind of like incorporate it. There is a practice of like pouring the clear wine off and saving the sediment for dilution. Um, but at least at our brewery, if we're making a product, we don't do splitting and blending. So if we're making takchu, we're making it with the intention of it being drunk with the sediment, versus if we're making something that's clear like pochu, right? We're we have the clarification in mind when we're developing the recipe.
+
+[44:33] So the intention is there for it to be finished clear, right? If we wanted it to finish with sediment, we would have probably brewed it differently. Because uh there is like you said, there's also sometimes the practice of uh taking the sediment from a higher alcohol production and watering it down, right? Absolutely. Yeah, it's down to like five, six percent, right?
+
+[44:53] I mean, it's a lot like Soju and like the overall trends um in that space where everything's just getting lower and lower ABV. But people what people don't realize is for artisanal producers that you know, thank you, um, that you know, put a ton of time, energy, blood, sweat, tears, and money into the ingredients, the the you know, what goes into the tanks, to then take that and di to dilute it by more than 60% water, is like why would I ever do that? And so, like uh for those that have not tried this style before, I just can't say more clearly what a different experience it is drinking these products than drinking if all you're used to in non-distilled rice products is sake. This is not taste like sake. It's not in the same ballpark as sake.
+
+[45:50] It is completely different taste to me. What do you think, John? Yeah, no, agreed. It's definitely its own thing. It's not similar to sake in any way, shape, or form.
+
+[46:01] Yeah, it's its own product. What are you getting on Takju? The one, that second one that I just poured. Like some nice yogurt y kind of notes almost? Like a nice creaminess to it.
+
+[46:10] Yeah. A bit fruity, you know. Mm-hmm. There is the gory sake, which is unfiltered, which has some similarities. But right, but it still has a taste like sake.
+
+[46:21] Right. You know what I mean? Like and what you were saying before, like the taste of the koji. There's a specific thing, which I like, but it's not the same product. You know what I mean?
+
+[46:31] Absolutely. And this, you have like your all your flavors are kind of a bit a bit more explosive, a bit more spread out. Um, and then there's of course the acidity. Um, we made this is like the closest thing to conventional mockley that we make. It finishes around eight grams per liter of glucose, um, which you know it's a lot of sugar overall still for a dry wine.
+
+[46:54] But um glucose is not as sweet as sucrose or fructose. By the way, eight grams per liter of sugar is that's less than one percent, right? No, that is one percent. It's about eight grams is one percent, almost one percent. So it's still low.
+
+[47:09] It's still very low, like not detectable on the palate. And you know, if anyone knows makle, they'll drink our takchu and be like, oh yeah, that's a dry mockly. I find people, I have found this in the bar world. People have a difficulty because when you say grams per liter, they think of it as percent, but it's ten times less than percent. You know what I mean?
+
+[47:27] Like one gram per liter is a tenth of a percent. You know what I mean? So it's like people get I've had when you give people recipes, this is a problem. You're like, add, you know, add you know, one percent, and they add one gram to a liter, and you're like, no, that's a tenth of a percent. You know what I mean?
+
+[47:42] Like, extra thousand. Right. Yeah. It's a thousand, not a hundred. A liter is a thousand people.
+
+[47:48] A grams equals one milliliter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Milliliter. Um, we did just come out with a product called mock eight, which is a conventional mock lead. It's a little much lower.
+
+[47:59] A bit sweeter. Maybe eight percent. We didn't bring that one today. No, it's it's our first can product, which is which is cool. And is there a jet aeroplane on it?
+
+[48:07] It sounds like it's like a like mock speed, actually. Yeah, there is. It would be extremely fast for an airplane, fact faster than any plane has ever traveled. It's a little eight ounce can, so you can like drink it quick too. And um more of an experimental style.
+
+[48:21] Yeah. No, like uh what I always say, drink quickly but responsibly. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. Which you've seen me do, John.
+
+[48:27] Yes, very much. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So now I think we've got to the point where we can ask Jordan's question and have it be reasonable.
+
+[48:34] Uh Jordan asks, every time I read up on Korean mold ferments, I'm surprised people rely on seemingly wild inoculation of uh I mean I'm gonna read it straight with their terminology, okay? Um uh seemingly wild inoculation of meju by using rice stalks as an aspergilla source. Yet in Japanese ferments I rarely hear about wild inoculation, and instead koji spores are widely available for purchase for direct inoculation. Excuse me. Uh I realize Japan and Korea have complex history related to traditional jang production and suppressing Korean artisanal culture, but are there really no Korean artisans using Koji spores to make rice and soy ferments?
+
+[49:07] Or is the aspergillus used in Korean meju? This is not a question specifically about what you're doing, but just I think it's interesting to talk about the different in general. Um or is the aspergillus using Korean mew distinct from Japanese koji? Relying on wild inoculation every time just seems so risky from a quality control and food safety perspective. Any information and resources you're willing to share on this topic would be greatly appreciated.
+
+[49:30] Okay. I can take this one. No. Please do. So, you know, when it comes to uh the fungi and how it's inoculated, right?
+
+[49:41] Um of course, so you we have to understand. Okay, let me take a step back. So there is actually uh polyculture fungi used in the context of Japanese sake production. It's just there's not that many producers doing it. And on top of that, the Japanese sake industry has such an amazing governing body that has put in so much money into the research of specific sake koji aspergillus cultures and yeast cultures that can be used by producers, that that's why it feels like that's the majority of the industry and what's available to homemakers and things like this.
+
+[50:29] But there is absolutely uh polyculture fermentation within sake. But it's viewed as like artisanal or a little bit more like niche within a niche, but it is the traditional way. And there is written evidence um and documented history of the uh Mongolian polyculture starter. I forget the name, but it's similar to like Chinese yeast balls. And the migration of that use of methodology into Korea and Japan, and um even documentation of uh Korean brewing methods, the use of nuduk being taken to Japan and being applied in Japan as well.
+
+[51:11] So all of this is all more interconnected than people think, first of all. Um there is a shared history, and ultimately it all comes from the brewing and distilled distillation methods that came down with you know the Mongolian invasion of the Asian pen of the Asian uh continent. So to say that like sake and surct from one another, but to say that they're not related is kind of silly. And then the modern practice espouses that with the fact that Korean brewers are using koji in their production. Most conventional breweries are using koji instead of nuduk in their production, right?
+
+[51:53] Um, and it's because a monoculture is indeed more resilien is indeed more reliable, more consistent, and predictable, right? But the interesting thing about nuduk-based production is is that of course there's variants batch to batch, and if especially if you're starting from scratch and making your nudok at home and then brewing at home, there's gonna be huge variants. But there's also nudic producers that, you know, the ones that are left in Korea are at most 200 years old, and there's a reason why, right? It's because this method of making was suppressed for a long time, unfortunately. But those producers, they're actually producing fairly consistent nudokes because the spaces in which that they're uh inoculating them perpetuates this like very strong ecosystem of fungi and yeast from batch to batch.
+
+[52:44] So there isn't actually that much variance as much many people expect. But from a single nudic producer, of course, their summer nudics could be different from their winter nudics. And of course, there is variance depending on like the quality, what happened to the wheat that year, what happened to the barley that year, and things like this. But um I think we've gotten to a point with nudic production where you can still create a fairly consistent product if you know how to respond to variants, right? So we'll do small batches every time we do we get a new uh shipment of nudic from Korea.
+
+[53:27] Um we'll even do small batches when we get uh when we change harvest on rice just to make sure, right? And then we'll adjust our recipes accordingly if there is variance, like let's say yeast is not as viable in this batch as it was as it was in the last batch, the cell count is less, right? Then we have to account for a longer building up time um in the early stages of the ferment, or we have to increase the pitch rate a little bit, or things like this. So um it's not actually very difficult to make a consistent product despite a wild starter. It's a matter of practice and getting to know your starter.
+
+[54:03] So speaking of practice, I read that you grew up brewing this stuff. So you're not like uh person completely to the thing you grew up. This is something you grew up doing in California. Yeah, right. Um and so do you think I'm not gonna ask you when you were born, but you know, I've read that like a lot of this stuff only started coming back in Korea after you were allowed to use, you know, the products again.
+
+[54:26] I mean, obviously, you know, a hundred years or whatever it was of colonial control and et cetera, et cetera, where you couldn't make whatever you wanted. But what was that like in the States for do you think versus Korea and growing up making it versus like part of this kind of newer like group of people, even Koreans who are just coming back to it? Yeah, um, I mean we love talking about the Korean American story because I, you know, while we make booze, we both John and I are Korean American, and um it's it's an important part of who we are at Hanamakoli. And um the thing about um homebrewers, specifically of my parents' generation, when they immigrated here, um, it's like it's as if they were taking like even today, me and me and my dad or me and my mom, like we'll always out we'll always have like little tiffs because it feels like they're trapped in time. Like that, like people in Korea are even more progressive than they are on certain topics, but they think Korean, all Koreans are as conservative as they are when it comes to those topics because they moved away from the country, you know, five decades, four decades.
+
+[55:38] Yeah, my business partner Don Lee used to joke that when he goes back to Korea, he sounds like an 80-year-old businessman. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like it's it's it's a really strange experience. But when how that kind of like manifests in the sharing of makoli, right, is is that um makali homebrewing for the people that are fortunate enough to still have it in their families, um, alive in their families, is very much like a um it's a very tr like a very like rustic tradition. People treat it as if it is cooking, right?
+
+[56:16] And so um when you learn how to do it, you learn how to brew intuitively, much like you learn to cook intuitively in this culture, and um there's a lot to gain from unprecise brewing as well, because your skills, your observations, then your ability to notice patterns in the brew, um that is something when it comes to polyculture fermentation, is not formulaic. So um I think it was like a really formidable important experience to have that growing up. And I don't know, and John, did you also grow up brewing or no? I absolutely did not. But you had experience with Makali when you try my uncle's home brew in Incheon 30 years ago and after a game in tennis, um which I'll always remember.
+
+[57:03] But uh no, I I've always had an interest in in the category, but I certainly wasn't a home brewer. So I don't expect you to be able to answer this because I don't know that it has a reasonable answer, but uh like uh what do you think the difference would be versus someone that and as far as I know, there's only one English language book on this subject called like how to brew Korean rice wine, and you can get a Kindle version of it for very cheap, and I don't really know anything about the subject, but seems okay. Um but uh what is there like if someone's just coming to it and they don't have a family culture, like you have an ingrown kind of compass and an ingrown set of this is the way w we have done it in my family, so you have like kind of a like a North Star. Like uh that's gotta be inherently different from someone who just is like, I'm gonna do this, right? Right.
+
+[57:51] I mean, like uh Well, then I and then I then I talk about the universal laws of fermentation. Right? Because two minutes, two minutes. Yeah. Despite the the differences between the categories and what makes them all unique, yeast are yeast, fungi are fungi, enzymes are enzymes.
+
+[58:11] So what you find beloved in a Saison or in a lambic or in a natural wine, you might be able to find a similar joy in Makali, even though it has an opaque texture. Yeah. Is there anything else you're gonna pour while we're while we're waiting? And then I'm gonna ask you some questions. First of all, you can buy it, go to what uh what's your website?
+
+[58:29] Hanamakali.com. Hanamakali.com. You have a tasting room in Greenpoint that you can go to. Uh where is that? Uh on DuPont, east of the bridge, um, between McGuinness and Provost for open Friday through Sunday.
+
+[58:41] And you can get our products um on pasteurized there on tap. Absolutely. Ah, reason to go. Yes. Thank you so much.
+
+[58:50] Good hit. So what's this last product you have here? Hanosoji 60. It's a single distillation of Talk 216 that you're trying now. It's 120 proof.
+
+[58:59] It's gorgeous. Oh geez, Louise. All right. Listen, uh, we didn't get a chance to answer a lot of the uh other questions, but I think we're gonna try to do a show from well, the you know, non-Makali questions. Uh so we're gonna try to, I think, do a show from LA next week when I'm in um Los Angeles.
+
+[59:17] Um so we'll talk about that stuff then. All right, so talk a little bit in the 32 seconds we have left about just Hanamakali and starting it. Um, I mean, it's been a joy full five years since we started, but John and I have been really working on this closer to 10 years together. Um, Korean rice wine, while it still is a very niche category, is um has more prospectus, more potential than even sake did, you know, 10 15 years ago. Um the amount of passion and love that uh chefs that uh writers that uh people in the arts are putting behind Korean gastronomy is um really incredible today.
+
+[1:00:01] And um we hope that people are able to join enjoy Hanamakali um and learn something new about the category, about Korea's deep history as we grow in our collective understanding about Korean culture. Awesome. Well thanks so much. Alice Joan and John Lim from Hanamakley, go try their products and you know, go taste some, get you some makali cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Hunter with your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City New Stam Studios, joined as usual with John Acrossman. How are you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yeah?
+
+[0:21] Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Got uh Joe Hazen rocking the panels.
+
+[0:25] What's up? Hey, how are you doing? Welcome back, everyone. Sorry for last week. Yeah, I know.
+
+[0:29] We were gonna do an LA version with uh we're gonna have Mike Capafari again from Night on Earth to discuss there are uh freaking uh what's it called? Uh the uh Booker and Dax one night pop-up, Booker Dax Contra one night pop-up. Uh but whatever, whatever. Uh we do not yet have Nastasia the Hammer Lopez or Lopez or uh Quinn, but I think they're gonna call in later. But we do, thankfully, thankfully, on the West Coast, have our boy Jackie Molecules.
+
+[0:55] How you doing? I'm great. Yeah. Feeling good. You sounding the party.
+
+[1:03] I've been eating nothing but eggs all week. Ah, we listened to it. Eggs every day. Money bags, Jack in my life too, man. Man.
+
+[1:12] Man, Dan's just Jack Jack's like, you know what? I've never ate an egg in my life, but now that they're ridiculously expensive, only eggs. Only eggs. You're that person like you're that person in like, you know, 1890 throwing lobsters back into the ocean. What is this bug?
+
+[1:28] What is this trash? This mud bug. And then all of a sudden you just as soon as they're expensive, you're like, I wanted that. I wanted that. Yep.
+
+[1:35] That freaking freaking ocean insect. That's for me. Anyway. Egg white cocktail. Oh god.
+
+[1:43] Yeah. What do you do with the yolks? Without an egg. What do you now that now that eggs are a billion dollars? It used to be, right?
+
+[1:49] It used to be that you'd be like, you know what? I'm gonna make an angel food cake, and if I figure out what to do with these yolks, I figure out what to do with these yolks. And if I don't, I don't. You know what I mean? But like, or like, you know, hey, I'm gonna use these yolks, I'm gonna make a Zabayon.
+
+[1:59] If I have something to do with these whites, God bless. Otherwise, you know, who cares? You know what I mean? That's just not the way it is anymore. You know?
+
+[2:10] Yeah, no. Yeah. Sell it on the secondary market. Yeah. Yeah, well, I have more on that.
+
+[2:16] Well, well, what cocktails are you making with egg whites? Yeah, I don't actually make them. No. But you're buying them out. You're like, you got an egg white cocktail, you charge more for it?
+
+[2:25] You charge them more? No. You know, for those of you that make egg-white cocktails, problem with egg white, first of all, you know, there's the question of whether you shake before or after, or both, a a dry shake before you have to do one or the other. Either dry shake beforehand or you uh shake it after you dilute it with ice, you shake it again to make it fluffy. You know this, right?
+
+[2:47] Please tell me you know this. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Now, the question is, which one do you prefer?
+
+[2:53] So it is without question, fluffier if you shake it afterwards. If you shake it first with ice or do whatever you're gonna do and then shake it again afterwards or hit it with one of those Hamilton beaches, it is without a question fluffier. Now here's the real question. Does that mean you like it more, or does that mean you like it less? Booze hounds often like it less because it's so airy that it dilutes the flavor of it because it's turns it into much more of a foam.
+
+[3:16] So you have to decide it's between you and your taste buds what you prefer. So as usual, there is no better, there's no worse, there is different, and you must understand the difference and make a choice, right? All right. Right. Yeah.
+
+[3:30] Now, back to eggs. You cannot buy an egg in in Manhattan. So, like at Trader Joe's, Trader Joe's is all about like just in time. So, anytime there's a problem, they try to like they restock every day and they sell out alm almost all their fresh stuff. They calls short code.
+
+[3:45] Remember the from the Secret Life Groceries guy that came in? They sell out almost every every uh every day. So they have not had eggs since for weeks. Jeez. And then when they do, they get a couple in and it's they have a big thing, one one carton per customer.
+
+[3:59] The fine fair across the street, which is our see town key foods equivalent, they're sold out. I go to Target. Target yet hasn't figured out how to do store by store price gouging. So they have uh they have like the eggs, they got their egg shipment, and I walked in on a Saturday morning, Saturday morning, Sunday morning, and uh a lady was walking out with as many as she could carry in her shopping cart. I got in, there was like two cartons left at like 8 30 in the morning.
+
+[4:28] There was like two cartons left because this lady had bought all of the eggs that my local crappy Target had. And I'm like, is there really that much of a secondary market in eggs right now that this lady is like doubling her cash on eggs? Well, now that the show's on, I can tell my story. Yeah. Uh in Pennsylvania last week, there was a truck heist of someone stealing a truckload of uh Pete and Jerry's eggs.
+
+[4:51] I think they're worth like a hundred thousand dollars, and they have no idea what happened to it or who took it or anything like that. Egg rich. Yeah. Egg rich crazy. Egg rich.
+
+[5:00] Mm-hmm. It's not just Manhattan, though, it's here too. I mean, in LA, I can't get eggs. Like, yeah. Really?
+
+[5:06] It's just crazy. Now here's the question. Our company so like for those of you that don't know, I mean, there's a standard of identity. This is why you can't call uh miracle whip mayonnaise, and this is why you can't call things that don't have egg in it, vegan mayonnaise. They can't really be mayonnaise.
+
+[5:21] They have to have a different name because there is a standard of identity for mayonnaise, and mayonnaise must contain egg yolk. Yeah. So uh, but the mayonnaise industry was one of the first people to figure out that if you freeze egg yolks and then thaw them, they get like thick or solid, and they can use minuscule amounts of egg yolks. So they don't need that much of it. But how long how much longer until the mayonnaise people, until Unilever and Hellman slash best made, which of course is the mayonnaise of note, right?
+
+[5:50] How long until they're like, well, the price of eggs is going up, so the price of mayonnaise has to go up too. Even though it's like even though it's like 99% not egg. You know what I mean? That's the question. How long until they gouge us?
+
+[6:05] The same way that like, you know, we get gouged. As soon as a tariff goes up on something, which is hey, enjoy. We have no idea what's gonna happen to our prices on centerfuges, by the way, yeah. We just don't know. But like uh everyone raised it.
+
+[6:17] It's not like it's not like uh the people who make stuff domestically are like, oh, well, we'll keep our prices low. They raise their price to meet what everyone else's prices is. You know who pays? You, whoever you are listening, you, you pay. You enjoy, enjoy, you pay.
+
+[6:30] Uh anyway. So uh they didn't catch these egg thieves yet? No. You know, eggs last a while, they have a while to sell those things. They really do, yeah.
+
+[6:39] Have you noticed that the quality of the eggs you've been getting now are also crappier? Yes. 100%. Yes. I just freaking hate a crappy egg where where it's just like all thin white.
+
+[6:49] Yeah. And like all pop poppy yolks and thin white. Yep. Oh, God. I think someone joined us on the phone.
+
+[6:55] I'm not sure if it was our friend Quinn or if it's our friend Nastasia. Who do we got? Hey, Quinn. What's up? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[7:06] All right. Yeah. Yeah. Too bad. I know you were about to go into uh a steel importing uh steel exporting business from Canada to the US, so sorry, we threw the kibotch on that.
+
+[7:14] So I know yeah. Yeah. You weasel Canadians with your fentanyl. Sending that your fentanyl. What?
+
+[7:23] Yeah, okay. What's your strategy? I have a strategy for everybody out there who is, you know, concerned about egg prices. Okay, what do you got? You buy from a bunch of local farmers, and you're always pay through the mallets.
+
+[7:38] And then when the regular prices go up, you don't even notice it. All right. Here's what I'm gonna say about that. While I I heartily endorse supporting local farmers, I have to say, when I'm going through like just a scad of eggs for like a recipe where I'm baking, and I'm just using eight tons of eggs, which I do because you know what eggs are fantastic. You know what I mean?
+
+[8:05] I just can't see spending that kind of money. You know what I mean? Like I I wanna say that I like if I'm gonna eat a poached egg, I'll be like, you know what? Give me the good egg. You know what I mean?
+
+[8:14] Or like when you go to England and you get the really, really like orangey yolks that are kind of like they they look good and they're real nice, firm white and they sit up real nice on on on your toast. I appreciate that. But I'm just like like going through them like they're like they're nothing. Yeah. I mean, we were talking about this right before the show, but the fact that Waffle House has added a 50 50 cent per egg charge, like surcharge to all the egg dishes there is crazy.
+
+[8:41] Yeah, that's how much the markets have charged. So if I if I order like a uh a three egg omelet, that's a buck fitty. Yep, extra. Huh. Egg tax.
+
+[8:50] Sounds like a bargain, actually. No, an extra buck fifty. I mean, don't don't don't hate. I've never been to a Waffle House. Whoa.
+
+[9:00] I've never been to a Waffle House. I'm not saying that I'm anti-Waffle House. I'm not opposed to Waffle House. It's not like they've done something where I'm like, I won't step foot in a Waffle House. But I've just never been in one.
+
+[9:12] Interesting. Food good? Yeah, from what it is. I mean, yeah. How are their waffles?
+
+[9:20] You don't like them. Have I had a waffle? I'm asking myself. They're just really soft. Um, so that's why you gotta get some pecans in there.
+
+[9:30] Are they like are they like uh an ego style? What are their words? Yeah, a little bit, yeah. Yeah, echo style. All right.
+
+[9:37] So like run in the mill, like middle American waffle. Yeah, yeah, basically. Um but it's also fun to just watch the whole system happen there and just like experience it. I don't know, like also from your perspective, like watching those line cooks do their thing without any tickets and just how things are positioned on a plate is how they do it. They don't believe in tickets?
+
+[9:56] They don't do tickets. Huh. It's how the server puts a plate for whatever order that is, and based on how they put certain things on the plate is how the line cook knows how to cook something. I kind of not that I wish anyone to have a natural disaster, but since they're known for staying open during a natural disaster, I kind of want to be in one in one of those circumstances as my first time. Have any of you ever been in a Waffle House during a natural disaster?
+
+[10:19] I have not. I mean, they're known for you. No, that's like the the FEMA actually rates things in terms of how whether Waffle House is open or not, as a as a indication of how bad things are. We're toast. We're done.
+
+[10:33] Don't even bother sending in the National Guard. The waffle if the Waffle House can't open, what's the National Guard gonna do? You know what I mean? But someday, someday I'll get to go. Yeah.
+
+[10:43] So but so if it's not waffles, like what's the money order there? Uh eggs and then the the hash brown setup. Ash browns, all right. Yeah. What kind of hash browns?
+
+[10:54] Like pucks that are deep fried or like like uh skillet? Uh griddle, like proper hash browns, and then you know you get them scattered, covered, smothered, and eating means covered and smothered. Boom. There we go. Yeah, I use that term enough.
+
+[11:08] I should I should go. Yeah. Yeah. What's the far farthest north they have them, you think? Pennsylvania?
+
+[11:14] Yeah, I think so. Next time. Next time in Pennsylvania. It's probably one in uh around New Orleans, right? That's not north, dude.
+
+[11:25] So New Orleans every year. I do go to New Orleans every year, yeah. Yeah. The last thing was the duck farm. You know, Crescent Ducks out in uh Long Island, fourth generation duck farmers since 1903 and 1905.
+
+[11:40] They had to call all 100,000 of their flock and might not be able to reopen because their flock got the evening flu. They wiped them out? Yep. Let me ask you a question. Is there any use for the meat once they have avian flu?
+
+[11:51] I think it just all has to be destroyed. Huh. Huh. So they can't like they can't sterilize it somehow and turn it into anything that with any economic value? No.
+
+[12:02] I wonder if there's insurance for this sort of thing. Yeah, I have no idea. It's a nightmare. Yeah, it's terrible. That sucks.
+
+[12:10] It's so crappy. Like force major? That's just come from the sky, right? I don't know. But like if you have a I mean, like, there's gotta be something where people can um what's it called?
+
+[12:22] Spread the spread the risk out amongst all of the I mean that's what insurance is for, right? Spreading the risk out. We all pay a little bit, so then oh man, I wonder what that's gonna do to uh how big of in the duck industry were they? Uh for the North He's pretty big. So have you already seen a dent in your price or your supply?
+
+[12:38] Yeah, it's gone up a little bit. Uh now I'm getting Bell and Evans duck. I didn't even know they did duck, but yeah. Yeah, neither. I I think of them as a chicken folks.
+
+[12:46] Yeah, exactly. But duck too. How are their duck? Uh haven't broken into them yet. Just got them in last week.
+
+[12:52] In which style, all peckin', or do they do any like uh they do any like mular? They do any I think it's just all bacon. Yeah. I mean, I like them. Yeah, I don't know, I do too.
+
+[13:00] Uh but yeah, just unfortunate. I loved Crescent duck. It's great, consistent, nice size. Well, if you know them and you can help support them, help them in this time, please do because I hate to see someone go under for something like that. Yeah.
+
+[13:13] Be come totally beyond their control. Boy's anyway. All right. All right, Quinn, other than uh telling people to spend uh unconscionable amounts of money on eggs, you have anything this week uh for eating. Uh last week we actually made chicken.
+
+[13:32] We made uh KFC spice karate. Well uh which turned out pretty good. I don't know whether you know this or not, but that's actually impossible because nobody knows KFC's recipe. Do you know that I mean I know I met someone that had okay, so I'm not allowed to say this, but I believe everyone involved is dead. So Hennypenny, the deep the pressure fryer for uh KFC, right?
+
+[14:00] The guy who invented it was a guy named Winston from Winston Industries who makes the CVAP, made the CVAP. Last time I met the guy, last time I talked to the guy, he was in his 90s, and that was like 10 years ago. I'm sure this dude's dead, so I'm not worried about it, right? So he started the CVAP, which is the uh where, you know, the first piece of equipment where you literally just set the wet bulb and dry bulb temperature, and it was designed specifically to hold chicken for Colonel Sanders. He was a personal friend of Colonel Sanders, designed for KFC, and then went on to be used all over for all kinds of hot holding and then for cooking uh at the dawn of the Sous vide revolution, especially because it didn't require putting things in vacuum bags, and you could cook things in CVAPs for long periods of time.
+
+[14:41] And that's why in New York City, they became popular very, very quickly because all of the four-star, three, whatever you want to call them, three or four-star restaurants like Jean Georges and all these places when we were no longer allowed to use vacuum bags in the early 2000s when the crackdown happened, we all wanted a way to do this kind of low temperature work and keep things going. And so everyone all of a sudden, overnight bought CVAPs because of a guy named Howard Richardson. Anyway, Howard Richardson was talking to me during this whole debacle, and he was like, you know, at uh Winston Industries in our safe, we have a copy of the Colonel's original herbs and spice recipe for Kentucky Fried Chicken. I was like, no way. And then when I was when I when I was writing for Food Arts magazine, which was, you know, the magazine, the trade magazine of note, it really kicks him serious, but it was a great magazine.
+
+[15:31] When I was writing for them back in the day, I wrote that. I quoted him as saying that, and he, you know, because we were a trade magazine and not like, you know, New York Times, we would send things to people to be like, this is what we said. Because we're not in the we weren't in the business of messing with people's business. You can't write that. No one's allowed to know that.
+
+[15:49] But since I'm sure Mr. Winston is dead, and Colonel Sanders is also dead, I'm telling you guys now. It was in that safe there. So, where did you get your knockoff recipe for uh KFC Clinton? I'm sure it wasn't from Winston and Winston Industries.
+
+[16:03] Are you aware of the situation of franchises for KFC outside the states? I mean, I know they exist. I've been to them. Colonel Sanders owned international KFCs longer than the like American corporate entity while he was still alive. So the Canadian and UK restaurants were working from a unmodified recipe longer than the modern restaurant.
+
+[16:46] And so in the UK right now, a bunch of restaurants switched from being KFCs to being this sort of other brand from the person that was managing the UK franchises. And to this day, they still sell a flower blend with the spaces built in so that like other restaurants can like sell the recipe of chicken. Now I wonder if they actually give you the real thing. For instance, when you buy Peter Luger's bacon, you know what you are not buying? Peter Luger's bacon.
+
+[17:31] You're not buying the bacon, they sell at Peter Luger's. Peter Lugers is like, let these other idiots think that they're having Peter Luger's bacon. Enjoy. You know what I mean? But it's not the same.
+
+[17:41] Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. I'm not saying you're wrong, Quinn. I'm saying I don't trust it. Especially something that's so closely held, like such that the franchisees don't even, they don't compound their own. They don't have a recipe.
+
+[17:53] That stuff's sent to them. You know what I mean? But you're saying that they sell the exact same mix. You're saying you're saying they sell the exact same mix to you, Quinn, that they sell to Jimmy Joe, Jimmy Joe jerk, the uh franchisee owner. Basically, at some point, no offense, Jimmy Joe.
+
+[18:14] There was there was UK franchises stopped. Like, like sorry, described this. They they switched the model, so now they only sell the spice, the spiced flour. And on the flour is you can get the ingredient list. Yeah.
+
+[18:35] I don't know. Somehow I just don't. A secret that that intense. It tastes pretty good. It tastes pretty good.
+
+[18:42] Yeah. I have to say that of all of the, well, of the two fried chicken restaurants that I go to on a well, semi-regular basis, right? KFC is by far the least consistent in terms of the quality of the product. Right? And first of all, are you a are you are you doing crispy style or you're doing original?
+
+[19:01] Because the original original, even though most people don't go for it, is a much softer style, physically softer. And that's like the one with the original. I'm an extra crispy guy. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[19:14] You know why? Delicious. Yeah, yeah. But you know what's even better is Popeyes. Spicy, crispy.
+
+[19:23] That like that is the chicken of note. Yeah, yeah. I uh the only thing that makes me angry is that Booker doesn't like it spicy, and so I have to get 50-50 boxes, which is ridiculous. And they won't give you like 30-70 boxes. You know what I mean?
+
+[19:39] And then it's the wing that's spicy, or like the bread, who cares? Just give me just a box of spicy thighs and call it a day. You know what I mean? You can't walk into Popeyes and just say, give me a box of spicy thighs. Wouldn't that be nice?
+
+[19:52] No one. So when you were doing your uh your when you did the double fry technique, Quinn. No, we didn't double fry this time. It was a bit of a you know workflow thing, but next time. Again, I mean I need to try to find a few.
+
+[20:07] Well, so in one second, in what sense, Kara. Well, I mean, it was marinated small bits of chicken. We did a little a small amount of uh a soy ginger marinade, and then we dredge in uh in uh flour starch mixture. Gotta double fry. Gotta double fry next time double fry.
+
+[20:34] Doesn't take that much longer to double fry. By the way, next time I fry, I'm really getting jazzed up on this uh on this no-soak, very long low temperature initial oil cook. Super jazzed. A the workflow is a lot easier. French fries.
+
+[20:53] Fruits. Frit. Um just because now do you know, John, in uh in Belgium land, which by the way, don't even talk to me if you haven't gone. Seriously. Like, don't be like, don't be don't tell me about all of your French fry knowledge unless you've gone.
+
+[21:13] Because they're just better at it than like I'm not saying that they have the that the best French fry maker in the world is from Belgium. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the average run of the mill French fry in Belgium is better than a very good French fry here. Okay? So if you're the medium, the medium Belgian French fry is like the top 90% of America.
+
+[21:37] Correct. And everywhere else. So the the point of this is that if you want to know how to do it the best, maybe go see how the people who on average are better than everybody else, how they do it, and then see whether there's anything in your technique, as good as it may be, right? Whether there's anything in your technique that might be better served doing something the way that they're doing it. Because, as we all know, there are uh eight million ways to fry a potato.
+
+[22:11] There are eight million ways to skim cats. You choose you whatever you want, but there's a million, there's no one, regardless of what Cooks Illustrated used to say back in the day, there is no one perfect way to do anything. And this is by the way, when Cooks Illustrated came out in 1993, I believe, I had I had all the charter issues, amazing magazine, life, life changing, the whole concept. But one thing that always stuck in my craw from the beginning is they would always write in their recipes the perfect this, the perfect that. And the biggest lie about that is that they would then two years later publish another recipe for the same thing that was now perfect, but wasn't it perfect before?
+
+[22:51] And it just goes to show that there's always things to learn and that there's different ways to achieve the same or different but just as good results. So go to Belgium if you care about fries. Just do yourself a favor because you also have a lot of other delicious things you can eat. You could eat the waffles, the specklows, chocolate, beers, tiny shrimp. The beers alone.
+
+[23:14] Any one of these things. I mean, I don't know that I would go there just for the speckles. But like other than that, like any one of the tiny shrimp. I mean, like you eat the tiny shrimp. Or the freaking liege syrup.
+
+[23:27] Oh, yes. Yeah, with the mustard. What's up with it? Oh, the mustard. Yeah, the mustard was phenomenal.
+
+[23:31] It's still going. Yeah. Yeah. Wait, what's up with the sea monkeys? Oh, talk about tiny shrimp again.
+
+[23:36] So there's these tiny little shrimp covet gris. They're I don't know, yay big, like a quarter of an inch. There's actually a restaurant, a Belgian restaurant on the upper east side, supposedly serving them. I'm so curious as to how expensive those must be. You want me to go throw it through a conniption fit there?
+
+[23:51] You want me to go crazy and just like shut them down so it's only you? Only you? Are they like wild-caught shrimp? But yeah, wild-caught shrimp uh traditionally like my hand? Yes.
+
+[24:01] I used to go fishing for them with my siblings when um were younger. It's uh like this rake net, and you just kind of like push it through the low tide sands and it just collects all the shrimp and yeah, larger scales done with the big uh Clydesdale horses. Um like poeboys. No, it's done in like little croquettes or cold tossed with mayo stuffed inside a uh hollowed-out tomato. Really bad tomato.
+
+[24:29] Like just a trash can tomato, just like the worst tomato in the world. It's the weirdest thing. But the shrimp are that good. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[24:37] Nullifies. Like like a 1982 salad bar tomato. With the kale dressing? Yeah, I guess. Pizza hut?
+
+[24:47] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. Such a weird dish.
+
+[24:51] Yeah, a nightmare of a tomato. Like even thinking about it. I remember it came on the plate. I was like, what the hell is this? You know what I mean?
+
+[24:58] But like they're like, hey, we don't have sunlight, we don't grow tomatoes. So they're like, what do you what do you want? Uh yeah. Yeah. Anyways.
+
+[25:06] I guess if you go during spring, you could do asparagus. Yeah, true. They know that stuff too. White asparagus, yeah. All right.
+
+[25:13] Uh, what about you, Jack? What did you have in the past week for uh food and or beverage other than your fake uh egg testrophy? Like I said, yeah, nothing but eggs. Um I had I had these really great drinks at this pop-up in uh Los Angeles at this place Night on Earth. Oh did that idiot Dave Arnold go?
+
+[25:33] I think I saw him there. Yeah, he was wearing a uh uh piece of a stenzole uh decked out as a disco ball. All right, so for those of you that don't know, I posted it on Instagram. You can go take a look at it. But I go to Night on Earth and I'm working a shift.
+
+[25:44] First of all, they really do put their money where their mouth is. All of their shaking drinks that aren't pre-diluted because they dilute mo pre-dilute most of their shaken things and then like whip them or hit them in a Hamilton Beach. But the ones for the pop-up that we did, we did four drinks. We did uh the Oja Santa, which is actually not a contrary drink, that was an existing conditions drink, where it's oasant, fresh oja santa leaf, a little bit of cilantro, and oja santa is is um it's uh it's used a lot, I think, in like bean dishes and whatnot. Enrique Olvera famously put them in between two layers of masa and had like a tortilla you could see the oja santa leaf in.
+
+[26:21] And they look almost like uh like uh spade from a deck of cards, but green, right? And they're related to pepper, like they're they're a pepper family leaf, right? So that means they're also related to beetle leaves, but unlike beetle leaves, which to me, you know, beetle leaves are the ones that you wrap, uh put beetle nut in and chew it, or or pawn, you know, in um in India, those to me taste like burning electrical transformers. But oh santa does not taste like a burning electrical transform to me. To me, oasanta is delicious.
+
+[26:50] So nitro muddle that with tequila and lime juice and orange syrup. So it's a margarita loid with nitro muddled oasanta. So that was one that from existing conditions because I didn't want to bother trying to get the fancy Mexican tarragon that you know we got for our drinking. So uh, although I'm sure Mike could have gotten it because it's LA. Well, dummy.
+
+[27:14] Anyway, so uh we did that one, and then we did the Firefly, which is a, and by the way, someone asked a question later about the drinks that we did at the pop-up, but they didn't mention which specific drink. They said, uh, read the question. Uh from Tri-Tip. Well, we were talking about the Soltera. Yeah.
+
+[27:31] Well, why would that be the one? It just says Tri-Tip says, was the drink, what was the drink of the evening at the night on earth event? There seemed to be one on every table. What are the origins of that cocktail and how do you make it? But I don't know which one they're referring to.
+
+[27:46] I mean, they could be referring to the salt air. We did the saltera, which is a variation kind of, came from the corsera, which was a the corsair is a mixture of tequila uh preserved lemon juice, where we just juice preserved lemons along with their brine, salt preserved lemons, uh, lime juice, and simple syrup. But uh, the corsair is tequila, and we take these super fancy. You know that, John, did I tell you this? The the umboshi, we use umbiboshi.
+
+[28:13] It's but it's this husband wife, Japanese husband and wife um like team that makes these like fancy uh like shiso umiboshi that are ridiculously expensive. So the umiboshi costs more than the liquor. It costs more than anything else. So the amount, and I'm not talking like, you know, when we I'm talking about in the drink, the amount that's in the drink, the plum is the most expensive portion of it. So we take the umiboshi, we pit them, we do a Hustino where we blend and spin in the spinzole, the pits, I mean, sorry, the uh the plum and tequila.
+
+[28:48] We then soak the pits with pectinex and tequila, uh, and then use we and then we take the puck and we r uh, you know, remouillage it, and then with more tequila, and then we create like three streams and add them all together to create this um umiboshi tequila, which we then shake with lime juice and simple syrup and serve with a tiny motolito beer. Delicious, pretty cocktail, beautiful. That's a pounder. You can get it at Contra. And we just can't take it off our menu, even though it's such a pain, it's so expensive.
+
+[29:18] But uh, you know, it's like we're using a chop top, top, top shelf like you know, spirit, but we're not. It's just the umiboshi is top top top shelf. We tried using the cheaper umiboshi. It's not as good. Just not, it's not as good.
+
+[29:32] You know what I mean? It sucks. The other, uh, then we did a firefly, which is uh our uh our ginger turmeric galangle uh mule, which is uh the trick there is just uh, you know, we juice the the turmeric, the ginger, and the gollygold fresh, juice them fresh, then cut it 50 50 with uh vodka, and then add half a percent of acid to that and pectinx, and then you you just let it sit in a tall cylindrical vessel, and it'll like all the stuff will drop to the bottom, and then you just rack off all the clear stuff on top, and you do that like two or three times with in progressively narrower, taller vessels, and you get fairly high yield. So you get like 80% yield or something like that. Um, and it's I think easier than trying to spin that.
+
+[30:22] And then you add to that gin and you know, clary lime and/or acids, depending on how you're gonna do it, carbonate it, delicious, delicious. A little simple, simple syrup. Um, and then uh what was the last one we did? Oh, I think we did the uh we did Gwyneth Paltrose's favorite drink from Contra, which is the um what's that called? The Sly Stone.
+
+[30:44] So that's a mixture of uh we did it with wild turkey there, although we use Elijah Craig at the bar. Uh we did uh a mixture of Blenheim apricots, dried suffaney applicots dried, which are a little like um, they're sweeter than Blenham's and also like a little less dry than the slab blendums that we get, and then fresh frozen peaches. A little bit of hellfire bitters to like, because not just spice, vinegar as well, because it's a shrub, right? So a little bit of that volatile acidity, a little bit, a little bit of the spice to round out the fruit flavors, and uh orange twist. Good night, done.
+
+[31:21] Sounds delish. That's good. So I don't know which one of those drinks Tri-Tip was uh referring to, but that's all of them. So anyway, so I show up and we're making these drinks, and then they're like, Mike's like, we got a present that the bar crew made you. I'm like, okay.
+
+[31:35] And it turns out it is a giant necklace on it, is a spinzall rotor. An actual not a not a replica of a spinzall rotor. An actual spinzall rotor that they've mounted on a fidget spinner bearing so that on the necklace it can spin. Like spin. They then hand glued a billion tiny mirrors, including in all the little crevices, such that it became a spinning spinzall rotor disco ball necklace.
+
+[32:10] Thing was nuts. That's pretty amazing. I wore it for I like that. I got halfway through the shift. I I put it on, and then I wore it the rest of the shift.
+
+[32:17] Unfortunately, for the shift, we uh we kicked in like an hour and a half. So we we were supposed to be there for four hours, but like we wiped out all the drinks in an hour and a half. So I apologize to anyone who came late. My bad. Nastasi's like, go to Ralph's, buy some more herbs, and then make a drink.
+
+[32:34] I'm like, no. I was like, I was like, normally I would, but her idea, wow. The problem is is that like they were like, unlike at when I went when we were in Harvard and Stone and I did that, right? They had a whole nother bar operating, and the bar where I was ostensibly was only normally for the drinks that we were making for the pop-up, right? These guys were doing all of their other drinks, and they had switched over to doing their normal drinks in a normal service.
+
+[33:01] So then I would have had to be like, can you get me the stuff I didn't ask for? Can you blub bleep blop? You know what I mean? Can I go in the back and prep biddy bitity booty boop? And then like I would be making it not with my normal technique, but using a technique that I wasn't used to.
+
+[33:17] So I would have put them through all of these hoops, then to make a drink that hadn't been vetted with their system, and I was just like, nah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Nah. I mean, if if I thought I could have put out with minimal impact to what they were trying to do with their lives, if I could do that and put out something I knew was top notch, sure.
+
+[33:39] You know what I mean? But I was like, nah. Not just because I'm old and lazy. That is also true, but that's not the reason. Right?
+
+[33:49] Jack, you were there. Is that accurate pretty much? Very accurate. Yeah. We did kick quick though.
+
+[33:56] Stas and Jack are like, we'll be there by six. Show up at 6 30. And then Nastasia is just staring at me about why I'm not getting her a glass of sparkling uh, you know, rose. I'm like, I'm in the weeds here, man. Come on.
+
+[34:11] Oh man, do I have a story about that? All right, what do you got? It involves let's just say Stas was hungry. That's why we were late. Because 100% checks out.
+
+[34:24] You know what? Her entire life she could have eaten beforehand, right? Well, I don't know. She's probably busy. She should work.
+
+[34:32] But either way, it ended with me having a bite of her hand roll that she got like across the street from some very sketchy looking place. Um, she took a bite, didn't like it, and gave it to you? Is that what happened? Well, I yes. And uh has to be one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen.
+
+[34:58] I'm convinced I got sick from it because I did get stomach issues the next day. It was really gnarly and bad. But what do you put in a hand roll that could be that bad? Like, what do they do? The fish itself.
+
+[35:10] Well, first of all, it was like it's supposed to be distributed evenly throughout a hand roll. This just had like a big glob of of bad tuna like on the top of the hand roll and then nothing else. Do you know what I mean? It was kind of like uh the cone shapes, which is like all the bad tuna up front there. Um like uh yes yesterday's poke all mangled and gross.
+
+[35:34] Mangled and mushy and it tasted like what I imagine like fish food would taste like it was really bad. It tastes like an old stale fish tank. And it and it and it wasn't because they put like furacake on top of it that it tasted like fish food. By the way is is uh is bad tuna your hot tuna cover band you gotta do that. Now I don't even think anymore you need to have a real cover band.
+
+[36:05] You could just create it with AI right couldn't you relatively quickly just like create a fake hot tuna cover band with AI? Yeah. Hey Siri give me bad tuna the album now now everybody is now everybody's you know you know who is doing that who's listening to this now you've toasted everybody. Do you know that like it it can't understand anything I say. So like which is weird like you know it's like every week for the past you know billion years we've been going on the podcast talking to people and yet my phone presumably people can understand what we're saying because they keep listening.
+
+[36:40] My phone can't understand what I to the point where like I could be talking to anybody and it starts, it thinks I'm talking to it. I'm like, didn't you choose a name that isn't unlike anything else that people normally say? You know? I mean, you had problems with this right before starting the show and texting me. Oh, yeah.
+
+[36:59] Yeah, we saw it. We saw it. We saw him talking to Siri, which ended up sending the text message to who knows. Yeah. Maybe that's where it's going.
+
+[37:08] Yeah, well, I have to pronounce. I have to pronounce your name like she does. Or she won't listen. No, no. It's just a that's why I like it.
+
+[37:18] Oh, your name, I have to say Quinn Fusile, or it won't listen to me. And sometimes I mess up when I'm speaking in the real life what it is because I say it more to her, it, than I say to any live human. And so like I'm more apt to use the mangled version of your name than the real version of your name, because it's that dumb. So dumb. You know?
+
+[37:50] Artificial stupidity. All right. Um Andrew C writes in. And I suggested that the person working on it try galangle as an interesting inclusion. By the way, galangle in general, for those of you that I mean, do most people know what galango tastes like?
+
+[38:07] Like if you had to guess what it tastes like on its own. You've had it if you've been to like Thai restaurants or what. It is galangle is like turmeric and like ginger, it's related to ginger. It's a ginger ballast, right? Now, uh, you know what?
+
+[38:21] I've never had I've never had the um the blue ginger. Is that any good? You ever try it? Any of you ever had it? I have not, though.
+
+[38:28] No, I haven't. Yeah. And there's a couple other, like uh there's a couple other gingers that I'd really like to try that I've only ever had dried, like sand ginger, which is the one that's used in the um, do you know the the salt chicken that like southern southern China like like a Hakka salt chicken recipe that they make a special spice packet for. That's got the sand ginger in it, but I've never seen it fresh. Anyway, there's a zillion gingers that I would love to try before I die.
+
+[38:54] We'll see what we'll see what happens. But the specifically galangle is um, and there's there's a lesser galangle and there's a greater galangle. Anyway, uh it has a very I love it, but it it if you use too much of it, it can go very detergent y. So just be careful with galangle because it can give a bit of a detergent note. Um anyway, and you can buy it frozen.
+
+[39:15] It's not good, it's not as good frozen. It like when you free the frozen galango that I've gotten, it maybe the aroma of it is fine. But it just when it thaws, it gets real spongy. I don't like it. You know what I mean?
+
+[39:27] Yeah. I've tried to freeze it at home even and it doesn't really keep that well. Don't enjoy. We have a caller on the phone, but I'm not sure if that might be Nastasia Hammer Lopez. Stas, is that you or is that somebody else?
+
+[39:38] Sorry. It's somebody else. Sorry. I'm relieved. I thought I was gonna get yelled at for telling the tuna story.
+
+[39:45] Yeah. Well, but if sauce is not, does that mean I can answer uh ask as many questions as I want? I don't know. What do we got? What do you got?
+
+[39:54] Or like it's or like it's smoked from the from these coasts. Okay, I got a chicharron question. Ooh. Okay, before you start, before you start. What style of chicharron?
+
+[40:04] With meat, without meat, skin. Wait, j wait, just skin? Just the skin. Okay, okay. Okay.
+
+[40:13] Uh many years ago, I dialed in a process and got really good at making chicharrones or chicharone sort of uh analog using salmon skin. Okay. Um part of that process uh involved steaming it rather than boiling it, because if you steam it, they curl up and there's there's no saving it from there. Um I no longer have a can a combi oven. Um and I'm curious if you could achieve a similar effect by just baking the salmon skin until it's like gelatinized or cooked or whatever rather than steaming it.
+
+[40:45] All right, here's what I would say. Uh no. But even if all you have left on earth is a home range, right? As long as do you have gas still? Right.
+
+[40:59] Uh I've got I still have a commercial uh kitchen. I just don't have a we had a combi oven where I when I developed this perf pan. And I don't have a combi oven anymore. Go perf pan. Just get like a get like a a four-inch or a six inch uh hotel pan, then get like uh the countertop steamer thing.
+
+[41:16] Well, and a two-inch perf uh a two-inch perf insert and then like a uh a steam table lid. And that's what I use for, you know, when I'm steaming potatoes or I'm doing like mass amounts of dumplings and stuff like this. I just use that rig. It fires up real quick. It folds up real real small, and you know, you can like even if you need to, you can shuffle that crap in with the rest of your hotel pans.
+
+[41:40] I mean, the lid's a little bit of a pain in the butt because the handle doesn't fold in right, but it's so convenient. I mean if you don't need the lid, you could just I'm pretty sure a sheet trail fit over the top of it, but the lid's nice. Right. It's nice to have the lid for the extra 15 bucks. I've actually I've actually got a really good steamer rig because whenever I'm cooking like hard boiled eggs to make doubled eggs, I steam them rather than boil them because I just they're easier to peel.
+
+[42:03] Um so I actually and what that is is you can buy these uh for walks, you can buy like steamer racks that are like circles that are it looks like a rack and it's got feet that fold out, and so I pop one of those and then 18 inch rondo which has a nice tight fitting lid and that thing can steam like a steam like a demon. I bet. Yeah but for salmon skins I think it'd be better for hotel just because you'd want that big s rectangle you know what I mean? Right and that's and that's the problem is like I tried to you can't because the the trick with doing this method is you sandwich the salmon skin between two um silpats, two silicone mats. Right.
+
+[42:36] And so that keeps it weighed down keeps it from curling up. Unfortunately you can only fit a quarter sized uh silpat in this steamer rig that I've got so yeah I'm just trying to figure out what the best alternative would be and I was really hoping that doing it in the oven would work but uh I'll just have to tinker with it. I mean I would say like uh the the hotel pan and then uh the pain is I did find um uh you need to get you need to get um uh cooling rack inserts that fit nicely into the hotel pan because you're gonna want to probably suspend it off of the holes in the perf. So I would probably do a cooling rack which might be I can't remember whether it's easy to get a good size if it's in there and then the two silpats like half sheet pan half sheet pads or you could you could custom cut out of full sheet so that they fit exactly in the hotel pan one on top of the other and I think you'd be good to go and you could probably triple stack them right so you could probably do your your silpat layer and then another rack on top of that and then another layer of silpat you could probably fit at least two maybe three into into one hotel pan setup depending on how deep a perf you get I don't like to get the perf too close to the bottom of the main hotel pan just because otherwise you get like sputtering up into it, and you need to have enough water in the hotel pan such that it never runs dry. You know what I mean?
+
+[43:57] Yeah, I'm a huge I'm a huge advocate for the eight inch deep hotel pans, which aren't seen very often, but man, I've got those for sous vide cooking and storage and stuff, and those things everybody's like, Hold on, why is that so deep? I'm like, Because it's just awesome like that. That's crazy. Yeah, we don't have in New York six is the deepest you go. You know what I mean?
+
+[44:15] Yeah, I mean, you can get them on Webstron. That's where I get most of my stuff when I'm buying things. But yeah, you've got I've got third pans that are eight inches deep and uh clear plastic. Yeah, I'd look into it, man. It's a game changer.
+
+[44:28] All right. Because uh a sous vide, especially for like sous vide stuff, the uh the current ones on the market, I just have uh two ANOVAs and one of the chef steps ones, the uh jewel, but they fit like perfectly. Like if you clip it to the and you I mean you gotta take uh you take the lid and then you take uh a um what do you call it, little saw, uh a coping saw, you use a coping saw to cut it out, but it literally stands like perfectly perfect height for an eight-inch pan, like one of the sous vide machines. So highly recommend I'll I'll post a picture on uh the the Discord whenever I get around to doing it. But yeah, I always I always do the uh half lexans for uh like uh full lexans a little big.
+
+[45:05] I always do the half lex hands. How does this size trying to picture it versus a half lexan? Um So I mean, granted, it is it's not for high volume. You use some of that stuff like the third pans. I I primarily use third pans or or half pans, and I'm not doing super high volume stuff because I just do private chef work, so you're talking about feeding ten people instead of like 200.
+
+[45:29] Right. Um, but I do also have the giant 20 gallon um Canberra food storage containers, and I did the similar treatment with the lid where you take a coping saw and just cut out a hole so that it fits the uh the circulator. So I have I have many, many sizes, but for something small, especially for like if you're just feeding a couple of people, family of two, family of four, uh, they're pretty great because they don't take up a lot of space and they heat up in a matter of minutes. Yeah, my my standard small is the seven and a half, whatever it is, liter cambro with cut-out top, like the square square cams. And then um the half the ha what's nice about the half Lexans specifically is that uh quarter sheet cooling racks fit in them, and then you can still fit the circulator behind the quarter sheet racks.
+
+[46:13] So you could have your circulator, and then you could start putting quarter sheet racks in to separate out your products because you know the the the trick that you know a lot of people when they're starting mess up on is allowing the food to touch each other so that they become effectively much larger pieces of food. Uh you know, that's the first that's the first that's the first mistake. Hey, I wonder if you could bag I wonder if you could bag your your your skin and cook it in a bag. Probably not. Hmm.
+
+[46:43] I mean, that's and that's kind of ultimately what my question was is like, does it have to be a wet method? Because like you can still gelatinize, you know, or like you can get all that gelatin breakdown from dry methods. I mean, you see people that have like a porchetta, like a pork loin that's wrapped in skin that you can get all puffed up, and they're not boiling that. You know, that's something that's done in the dry oven. So there's dry and there's a lot of things.
+
+[47:03] When you put it in an oven, it is getting drier and drier every second, right? And then there is is there enough moisture in the product to gelatinize itself? Two different things. Right. Right.
+
+[47:14] Fair enough. Yeah. Okay. Well, I appreciate the insight. I gotta go serve lunch to some folks to do it.
+
+[47:18] Let us know, but thank you. Uh all right. Back to Andrew C's question. Uh okay. So uh was the by the way, for those of you that don't remember, we're talking about Galangle in non-alcoholic drinks.
+
+[47:29] Uh I suggested the person uh try galongle. They ended up running a blended slurry in water on a Eurovap, which is kind of like a um it's kind of like a rotovapy situation, but it doesn't rotate. It's kind of like, you know, a distillation rig that's under vacuum-ish. Right? Okay.
+
+[47:49] Um anyway, and the resulting distillate was interesting. Notes of eucalyptus, pine, menthol, and reminded me of carrot tops, presumably keratops of vegetable and not keratops, the crazy bodybuilding comedian. Um but the remaining spent slurry was more interesting. It had very little flavor, but all the gingery galongal burn. Have you experienced this?
+
+[48:12] And do you have any ideas on how to clean it up further? Will it distill at a higher temperature or is centrifugation with ginger clarification method the way to go? Um here's the problem. Oh, uh also you say I found out that the temperature of the distillation meant that the leaves produced were pretty unsafe to consume. Glad we didn't get botulism, but gotta figure out a way to make that food safe.
+
+[48:30] I mean, it depends on how long you were distilling it. I mean, I doubt I mean it's under vacuum and it's, you know, quote unquote in the danger zone because it's not uh because just because, but uh because you're you're doing vacuum distillation. But I don't think it's gonna be distilling long enough usually for you to I wouldn't worry about it. And then I really wouldn't worry about the botulism in it too much. Especially you can just increase the acidity of it.
+
+[48:55] You could just dope it with acid if you want, and then there's not enough uh then the uh acidity will be too high for it to uh have botulism growing in it. Um, especially if you use a non-sour acidifier, like for instance, uh sodium bisulfite or eight. I gotta look it up again. The one that is uh sulfuric acid with one uh one of the hydrogens gone. Um the problem you're gonna have is this there is no way to clarify that I know of.
+
+[49:26] There is no way to clarify a ginger style product, so ginger turmeric or galangle, uh, without alcohol that preserves the burn. So if you want the burn to stay in it, you have to use it in a cloudy and or non-clarified situation. Now you can get rid of some of the solids, but if you fully clarify it, uh it just wipes out the wipes out the burn because I think it's like whatever principle is making it cloudy is not fully soluble in water. And so when you remove the suspended stuff, you remove the burn, uh, unfortunately. You think propylene glycol would be worth a shit?
+
+[50:08] Alternative solvent? I've not tested it. But uh it's not, I'm not going to say that it's impossible because I have not tested it. I mean, I would if someone else would test it for me and let me know, that would make me happy. But uh, you know, I've tested different levels of alcohol, and uh the sweet spot seems to be about, you know, 50-50 with vodka, so it ends up being about 20% alcohol.
+
+[50:35] Uh I did it where it was a lot higher alcohol and it didn't help. Uh and the lower alcohol one, um, I needed to use a lot more of the product so the yield didn't seem as high, so it didn't seem as effective. So uh, but you know, if you could try it with uh propylene glycol, I mean, try it. Or I would try glycerin, uh glycerin, you know, I don't I don't know. I've never used propylene glycol as a solvent.
+
+[50:59] I mean, it's antifreeze. I don't want to I use it as an antifreeze. I wouldn't, and it's not food unsafe, but I you know, I'll try glycerin probably. Um why propylene glycol? Well, just when like Darcy's uh content when he's talking about ethanol alternatives for extractions, he recommends like USP or propylene glycol.
+
+[51:27] Yeah. A lot of these things also depends on how much you're gonna use, right? So, like typically when you're doing ginger, you're not using it by the drop. And glycerides and probably things that are using propylene glycol are things that you want to use in a relatively small amounts. So you need to have something that is so strong that you're because no one's being like, I'm gonna drink a cup of propylene glycol today.
+
+[51:52] That's just not how it works. You know what I mean? So it's just like a question of like uh, you know, whereas people don't mind drinking, you know, a relatively large quantity of vodka, like an ounce. You know what I mean? Something like that if you drink alcohol, you know what I'm saying?
+
+[52:06] Anyway, so anyway. Or if if it was about getting it, if it was about getting the final product under like that really minimum threshold, I wonder if you could use uh a combination of solvents. I don't know. And then you know the final drink would still be, you know, under the under the link. I don't know, it makes me nervous.
+
+[52:27] And also, like I say, you want maximum burn. So the question is really just I would just not try to use it in a clarified situation. Because I just don't think you're gonna get what you want uh in a non in a non alk drink. Simon B, what are the biggest trends in cocktails that are breaking through with the public right now? Simon, that's such a I don't know.
+
+[52:42] You know what the biggest trend is? Going to Contra. Go to Bar Contra. That's the biggest trend. Second biggest trend is going to uh temperance bar.
+
+[52:49] That's right. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Those are the two biggest trends in drinks right now.
+
+[52:53] And I say the third biggest trend is going to night on earth in uh Los Angeles. That's the third biggest trend. Those are the biggest trends in cocktails right now. I don't know. I don't know.
+
+[53:03] Uh I'll think more about that. We'll we'll get back to it when I have more time because we only have six minutes left. Uh and like I could probably spout about that forever. Um Wenrick, I have a whole beef heart uh from a cow share and haven't cooked it before. Seems like high heat skewers are a popular use, but can you share any favorite ways to cook it?
+
+[53:20] Wenrik, I don't cook a lot of beef heart. Captain Beefheart, I like it. Oh, I do. You do? All right.
+
+[53:25] What do you uh do you listen to Captain Beefheart? Yeah, I don't know what that's okay. Anyway, all right. So what's what's your what's your beef heart? My favorite heart is chicken heart.
+
+[53:37] My second favorite heart is duck heart. Agreed. Agreed on both fronts. Yeah. And those things, high heat on skewer, marinate those suckers, marinate those suckers with oil and like salt and pepper and garlic, maybe a little bit of acid.
+
+[53:51] You know what I mean? Marinate those suckers. Oh, yeah. Put them on a skewer, uh heat off on, off on, off on till the outside gets crunchy inside delicious. And that's dinner right there.
+
+[54:01] Maybe some parsley over the top of that. That's exactly what I would do with the beef heart. Yeah. But I've never done beef art. Anyway, go ahead, Queen.
+
+[54:07] What do you got? Yeah, I would try and when you're butchering the heart down to remove all the like connector tissue and the bigger blood vessels. Try and preserve it in for me as bigger chunk as possible. And like, oh dear. A rare severe and a hot fish, or street turtle.
+
+[54:29] Or sometimes I like doing a really, really hard sear, and then it is rot in the middle. And then you just chop that whole thing up and dress it like tartar. I've never done I've never done hot tartar. Well you got some tart yeah really good. Never done hard tartar.
+
+[54:49] I'm a big fan of off on off on off on I believe historically it was one of like the choice pieces to make tartar if memory serves. Because it's low in fat I mean to me it's like a denser firmer tenderloin with like more flavor. I don't know about that. Again, but I'll defer to you I don't cook a lot of beef art. But you gotta go listen to Captain Beef.
+
+[55:23] Actually you probably won't like it. You like Captain Beef heart right Joe. Of course I do. What about you Jack? Is that is that is that in your wheelhouse or not?
+
+[55:34] Totally come on. Alright I'm sad that uh that twin doesn't know what he is. He doesn't listen to that kind of stuff. You know much music at all so yeah but it's called beef heart I'm not a music guy Captain Beef Heart's a kind of that's a tough ask. You know even even music people sometimes have trouble with him.
+
+[55:52] Yeah he's kind of like the harder to listen to Zappa. Oh I was just gonna say Zappa. Like burnt weenie sandwich that's a hard record to listen to it is. All right. Robert Johnson writes in.
+
+[56:05] I work at an Italian restaurant at high altitude. And we have a lot of problems with oxidation of our pasta dough. Before anyone starts. It's an egg dough. So before you it's egg dough.
+
+[56:16] I don't know if it's because of different ingredients or because of the altitude, but using the same flour and recipe, our dough goes brown and speckly about four times quicker than normal. Do you know if the altitude would have any effect on this? It's very dry up here and the pasta dries quickly when rolled. We make fresh dough and roll pasta out every day, but even making the dough in the morning it's starting to discolor by the evening service. I'm not sure why altitude or humidity would make a difference, but struggling to think of any other factor that's different to usual.
+
+[56:40] The only other change I can come up with is that I'm in France where I believe the eggs are pasteurized before sale. I don't really think that's gonna that I don't think it's gonna be anything. And normally work in England where they are not. If it's relevant, we make a rich rich person's pasta dough with uh double zero, although we are double, you're not during uh egg yolk and a little olive oil, no egg white or other ingredients. Thanks.
+
+[57:01] So you say it's brown though. So t typical egg pasta discoloration is kind of gray, greenish gray, and it happens after a while. It's definitely gotta have something to do with your high altitude, which is gonna cause a flashing of moisture. And I'm wondering if it's just you know, like what I would do, uh, Robert is post to the Discord, because we have a bunch of people that do pasta, right? I would post pictures of the discoloration.
+
+[57:28] If it's oxidation, right, then you know, then it's oxidation. But I don't know whether or not the oxidation is going to be enhanced by the fact that it's drying out so quickly because you're at altitude and the moisture is just gonna be leaving it like a mother. But I I don't really know. You guys got anything? I don't know.
+
+[57:46] I had this kind of issue, but I ended up being the eggs. I switched to eggs and then my problem went away, but I'm not sure. Yeah, you could try adding an antioxidant to it and see whether or not that helps. Yeah, also just like throw a sheet of dough and give a vacuum bag and see if it stays. Yeah, but that's also going to stop it from evaporating.
+
+[58:05] So it's like if it depends like that's not gonna like that's like you'd have to I I I would get some vitamin E maybe and see whether or not vitamin E would uh wouldn't that be the antioxidant to choose for a uh for a pasta bill like that? Or toco from the biggest. No, that's for lipid oxidation. People use a little bit of acrobic acid or anything and make it add that to them. But it depends on what you're doing.
+
+[58:29] So like like like vitamin E is gonna help with lipid oxidation and uh like things like vitamin C is gonna help with like uh other kinds of water-based oxidation. So I don't know which one is happening here. Tony Tony says I just bought the way too many uh kefir lime leaves to use in the Thai soup I make today. Is it worth my time to dry them? Uh or should I suffer buying fresh leaves again?
+
+[58:51] Yeah, just freeze them though. Freeze them. Freeze them. Freeze them. Yeah, just freeze them.
+
+[58:55] Uh Lucas H, hey, uh I have an issue that's been discussed a great deal, but I can't find an answer. What's the best way to store vermousil and non oxidize and degrade? Uh I don't have uh liquid nitrogen. Here's it. Just get small bottles, glass, preferably.
+
+[59:09] And if you need to use plastic, you can, but if you're in England, you're in luck because they have uh vapor better vapor uh barrier plastic bottles. But get small glass bottles, fill them all the way to the almost all the way to the top so that there's no oxygen, cap 'em. If you if you don't fill them all the way to the top if you're gonna freeze them because they could explode. But if you use glass, you can like judge it and you get them and you put them in. That's that's the way to do it, and then open one and use it quickly.
+
+[59:32] And frankly, just uh drink more vermouth, and then it's not gonna be a problem. Nick, I'm gonna give you the recipe for uh the tomato BS uh next time. I I have no problem giving it to you. Um, but oh man, we're out of we're out of time. We're out of time.
+
+[59:48] Sorry, Matt from Mystic, I'll get your question on uh mucore aging and Tony Tony will talk about skate wings and whether or not they're actually used as scallop substitutes. Joe, can I say this? Skate wings, so it used to be said in the 1960s and 70s that skate wings people they're trash fish, so people would throw them away and they would punch scallops out of them and sell them as fake scallops. Now, this is in a time when maybe a lot of people hadn't had fresh scallops. Like fake scallops aren't made that way anymore.
+
+[1:00:17] Fake scallops are made like sure me. Uh, and they look fake and they don't taste like scallops because they're not scallops. I mean a scallop is a scallop and they're delicious. But scate wings are delicious on their own, shouldn't be a substitute anything. And the easiest way to you buy them, hopefully cut by already taken care of by your fishmonger, such that they've gotten rid of the cartilage, and they just look like wings, like angels' wings.
+
+[1:00:39] And all you gotta do, they're the easiest things on earth to cook. Easiest things in the world to cook. Just salt, pepper. I add a little bit of sugar, but that's me. Then flour, butter and or oil, whatever your mix is.
+
+[1:00:53] Flip. Put the butter over the top, and serve that with a little lemon, and you're done. You can hammer it, it doesn't matter. Don't undercook skate, but like you can hammer it, it's not gonna go nasty on you. And skate is delicious and so good.
+
+[1:01:08] Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Niches. This is Dave Harnell, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City News Dam Studios. Join not with John, no John today, because we're not on a normal day. I was coming home from uh Lake Placid yesterday, so I couldn't uh do the show. But uh I got uh Joe Hazen rocking the panels.
+
+[0:28] How you doing? I'm doing well. Good, good, good, good. Good to see you. Good, yeah.
+
+[0:33] And uh over there in Los Angeles. We have also don't have Nastasia de Hammer Lopez because she's currently on an airplane flight, but we do have Jackie Molecules, thank goodness. How you doing? Yo, I'm here. Everything good?
+
+[0:44] You're in Los Angeles? Yeah, got my uh in LA, I got my six-year-old niece and my brother visiting today. So that'll be fun. In the real life, or like that'll be fun. No, oh my god.
+
+[0:58] This is like my favorite. I'm super stoked. I'm nervous because I don't, you know, I don't have kids. I don't really have like what I would call the most kid-friendly apartment, you know. Once you're six, you've already figured out not to like, you know, stick your head in a deep fryer, otherwise you'd already be toast.
+
+[1:12] I mean, at that point, you know, I think you don't need to really sweat it so much anymore. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah, I don't mean like dangerous in terms of kid friendly. I just mean like, you know, you walk in here and it's a bunch of music equipment and like a a huge collection of mezcal. I'm like, I haven't toy or anything.
+
+[1:30] But the other thankful thing is kids usually don't like the taste of mezcal. You know what I'm saying? Usually that's it. Yeah, I mean, like, I might be a little worried about your musical instruments getting a little bit toasted, but you know, that's on the instrument. I mean, the kid'll be fine.
+
+[1:45] You know what I'm saying? Right, right, right. Yeah, you're gonna be, you're gonna be like you're gonna be freaking like, you know, rinsing Cheetos out of your keyboard, you know, for the next like 20 years. But other than that, oh my god, isn't that disgusting? When someone walks up with like super filth hands and they like walk up to a keyboard and you're like, no, don't touch, don't touch, don't bing.
+
+[2:05] You know what I mean? Yeah, it's the best. Do they make like I know they make them for like uh typing keyboards, but for regular keyboards, you can't really have a keyboard condom, right? Because that would kill the that would kill the action. I think so.
+
+[2:21] Yeah, I don't know. Too bad. Yeah. Joe, you you have any experience with keyboard condoms? Uh no, I don't.
+
+[2:27] I don't have any experience with keyboard condoms. I did play a I played uh classically trains or I could read music and I played over 20 something years of classical piano. So one thing I do know is we do not we cut our nails. Oh, see we the clanking clanking. It's terrible.
+
+[2:42] But I you know what? Weirdly enough, there's this Polish artist, uh Lubinir Vel Mel Melnick. He plays with long fingernails and it clicks and it sounds really cool. Yeah. Really cool.
+
+[2:55] Really, really cool. Well, you know, like going forward, like that's gonna be like remember in the old days, people used to when they were uh taking 35 negs and they wanted to prove that they didn't like mess around, they would like file out their the the neg holders so that when you were taking when you're doing prints, you could literally see the edges of the film to prove they hadn't cropped it in any way. So maybe going forward, the fingernail clack is gonna be yo, still human here. But then the problem with that is is a computer could fake that. Yep, yeah, yeah.
+
+[3:23] It's already faked. It's already been faked. Wow, yeah, yeah. Yeah, already fake. Clean keyboards.
+
+[3:28] Yeah, yeah. Uh in the uh upper, upper left, we got Quinn. How you doing? Hey, I'm good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[3:36] All right. Uh and then uh two special guests calling in, I think from two different places, right? Uh we have, of course, longtime friend to the show uh and author of the first and maybe still only real book on the subject of Koji. Koji Alchemy. Uh Rich G, how you doing?
+
+[3:57] Hey, I'm doing well, and uh always an honor to be here. And I forget uh how much banter there is. That's super entertaining. Well, yeah. And you're so you're also the co-founder of what you're ostensibly here to talk about, even though unfortunately, because we're late, you're already in the middle of it.
+
+[4:14] KojiCon. And you're a co-founder in KojiCon, uh, Jennifer Rothman is here, who's also the founding director of Yellow Farmhouse, which is an educational farmhouse in Stonington, uh, Connecticut. Is that correct? That is correct. Yes.
+
+[4:29] Thanks for having me. Yeah, welcome. So wait. So since this is the first time that you've been on the show, Jennifer, I have a couple of usually we just, you know, kind of shoot the breeze for a couple of minutes, but I'm gonna pepper you with some questions because I have no idea. So since you're in Stonington.
+
+[4:41] I'm ready for it. Yeah, a place that I, you know, I don't actually go to Stonington. I gotta be honest. I go to the Stonington side of Mystic. That's kind of as far as I go, right?
+
+[4:50] Sometimes I'll go see uh, you know, I'll go see the Moromi folks up there, which you know, they say Mystic, but really Stonington. Come on, please, right? Uh but uh my question is is as an educational uh outdoor, you know, farm person, do you ever hook up, and this is this is a deep cut, but do you ever go to the Pequatzipus Nature Center in Mystic, Connecticut? I do. In fact, um both of my sons went to preschool there.
+
+[5:18] So yes. And actually it's one of the big reasons why we moved here. Um I love we we were from New York and we're looking at the area and found that preschool and I was like, oh, I want to go here. So for those of you, this is another thing. Like John's not here, but like I'm a huge Connecticut booster because I love like everyone's like, oh, Connecticut, it's just like some sort of weird carbunc on top of New York.
+
+[5:37] Nobody cares about it. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. I was with you.
+
+[5:41] I was right there with you before I moved here. Yeah, yeah. So Pequatzippus is this weird little nature resource center where it's like, but you go, you can have birthday parties there, P.S. Uh, I wanted so why my brother-in-law Wiley Dufrein has a pizza restaurant here called Stretch. And I was like, listen, you gotta do something up there and call it Pizza Quatzipus.
+
+[6:01] And he's like, nobody would go to a restaurant called Pizza Quatzipus. And I'm like, I don't know. I think maybe I think maybe you can make it work. Pizza Quatzipus. But anyway, they have like the birds, they have their a pigeon who wears a diaper and walks on a leash.
+
+[6:16] I forget the pigeon's name. I don't remember the page. I swear to God, they have a pigeon, it wears a banana, a diaper with like a banana on it, so they can walk it around inside without like you know, you know, picking up bird poop and a leash. They have they have this, like, for instance, they they always get these owls in there because what happens is is that uh there's a roadkill. Okay, I'll set the scene for you.
+
+[6:39] There's roadkill, right? There's these little roadkill on the side of the street, and owls are like, oh, I'm gonna eat that. So the owls swoop down and they get hit by cars all the time, or like plows or whatever, right? And so uh they have all of these owls that have been kind of like knock silly, and they're awesome. They just kind of hang out, like it's just the best but quatipus is like the best place, anyway.
+
+[7:00] Sorry, sorry. Deep cut, not food related, but cotton. And listen, I it's it is kind of awesome, and uh it's this tiny it is it's like tiny little nature center that has an amazing bird rehab center, and then their preschool is like magic because the kids are outside all day. I used to go pick up my kids in with like a trash bag because they were so filthy by the end of the day. They just rolling around in mud.
+
+[7:26] Awesome. And we strip them down the parking lot, stick them in the car and go home. And it was the best. I love it. I love it.
+
+[7:32] So so what are you teaching at uh the yellow farmhouse? Yeah, so we are doing like mostly cooking classes and um sort of outdoor um food and farming classes for kids and adults. We work a lot with high school students, so we have a particular focus on um high school culinary classes or what's called family and consumer sciences. But when I was in school, it was called home ec. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[7:58] Um and so we're working with those teachers to kind of like shift the curriculum a little bit. So it's still covering basic culinary skills like knife skills and how to make soups and the eggs unit, but then adding this layer of food system information so that high schoolers have some exposure to where their food is coming from. Um a couple of things. Well, are you telling me that they no longer have home ec? I mean, no my kids didn't, but that's New York City, so like is it not like is it still?
+
+[8:23] They no, they do. It just is rebranded family and consumer sciences. But everybody says family and consumer science is you know, home ec. So it wasn't a great rebrand, I don't think. Yeah, that's like social studies is now humanities, which my son Dax calls O The Humanities because he's like, I guess, likes old Hindenburg broadcasts.
+
+[8:43] But uh I'll this will come as no surprise. I loved Home Egg. I for I freaking loved home ec. I thought it was great. You know it was great, and so do so many kids.
+
+[8:53] They still love it. It's like the most popular elective at Millet High Schools, and um, and so you have these like kids who are like excited to be there and kind of open to hearing a little bit more about food and farming. Yeah. It's not food and farming, but do they still teach sewing in home ec? Everyone should learn to sew.
+
+[9:12] They do. Actually well, it's not so not all not every school offers that. But that was my favorite part of Home Ec was the sewing unit. I think I made a pillow. Yeah.
+
+[9:21] Well for us they're a stuffed animal. Yeah, plushie. You get make a plush and you're like, you can make a you can make a plush. What? Exactly.
+
+[9:28] And you know what's like interesting. So I mean, sewing is like an important skill, weirdly, for like, you know, if you go to the medical field, it's good for s you know, uh you know, early intro to uh doing stitches. But but up here, the boating industry is still is kind of big and they can't find people to sew sails. And it uh because there's no home act you wouldn't like make this connection of of just like basic sewing skills you're seeing an important skill set to potentially have. Yeah, plus you're out somewhere, your pants rip, what are you gonna do?
+
+[9:58] What are you gonna do? You know what I mean? If you don't know how to same thing like not know how how to cook it, like you're like you got these ingredients, you don't know what to do. You're like, what am I gonna do? It doesn't necessarily people can't just pick up a needle and go, you know what I mean?
+
+[10:12] Anyway. Exactly. Uh I just showed my my son's pajamas uh buttons back on. There you go. My wife was so like, what you sewed?
+
+[10:20] Come on. Yeah. I should see my home sweater. Yeah. I made one.
+
+[10:25] Oh, sweater? That's pretty sick. But it was like a three piece panel, like, you know, um American apparel sweatshirt type of thing. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[10:33] I like it. It's very off. But yeah, I mean my cancel has it. Nice. Well, you know, someday it'll show up in a thrift shop.
+
+[10:39] Someone will be like, What is this? You know what I mean? And Anastasia who's not here, she'll buy it, and then that's it. All right. But uh all right.
+
+[10:47] So before before we get before we get to uh KojiCon and also we have some questions related to molds and spores and koji and whatnot. And we could say spore because Nastasia's not on the air now. So you can say spore as much as you like. Yeah, it's a safe space for spores when Nastasia's not here. That's one of her trigger words.
+
+[11:07] You can't, you know, can't do it. Um but uh so any of you guys have any uh good uh food-related uh business over the past uh week or so um I'll very quickly very quickly put out that um my girlfriend and I are planning a trip to Taipei, Hong Kong, and uh Chengdu. So anyone in the Discord wants to bless us with some recommendations for those three locations. Yeah that's where our minds are then. Uh yeah, I I toured all uh the whole island uh of for fermented foods, but ate some really badass stuff there, so I can totally uh help you out with all the connections.
+
+[11:54] I haven't been since the pandemic, but I haven't been since the pandemic, but like Taiwan is ridiculous. And I was only in Taipei. I didn't get to go out to the forests or any of the other beautiful stuff, but man. You know, yeah. Yeah, I mean, just I mean, just simply hit up any, you know, any uh major night market and you're you're eating like really good food items.
+
+[12:19] I might I might have already said this on air before, so if I didn't, I mean, if I did, I apologize, but do make sure you go to the National Museum. Do I don't care? It's not food, it's not food related, but you gotta go. You gotta go. Okay.
+
+[12:35] If you like, because you're never gonna have an opportunity. Like the greatest like cultural patrimony of all time is in the National Museum in Taipei, because it all got taken by Changhai Chek when he came over to Taiwan. Uh, and it's just a crazy museum. If you like, if you like any sort of uh Chinese cultural history at all, you have to go to that museum. Anyone else been to that museum?
+
+[13:01] It's a great museum. Fantastic. Um gotta go. Everyone goes for food and they never they don't make the time to go see the museum. You know what I mean?
+
+[13:12] It's like when you go to Paris, people are like, I guess I have to go to the Louvre. And yes, you do have to go to the Louvre or the Dorsay or whatever, right? But when the people go to Taipei, they're like, uh maybe I won't go to this museum. You're like, no, go to the museum. You know, just do it.
+
+[13:27] You know that there's gonna be a period when you're not eating between, I don't know, like after you have breakfast and before you have lunch, just go. You know? Nice. Uh it's true. Yeah.
+
+[13:41] And uh if that's you gotta walk it off. If that wasn't enough, and I know I've said this on air before, like, one of the most popular things in that museum is the meat shape stone, which is like a uh Tung Po pork, like a rock in the shape of Tungpo pork. And I think the rock was natural, but it's on an unnaturally, it's on like a human made setting where someone was like, Oh my god, I found this tongue po pork rock, and then that's it. And then you go, this is not necessarily worth it for lunch, but you go to the restaurant and then they make tong po pork in the shape of meat-shaped stone. Have I talked about this on air?
+
+[14:16] Right. And so then what I want to do, I actually, I actually own P.S. I own the Instagram uh handle, meat shaped stone. Okay. So what I wanted to do, what I wanted to do, and I've never done it, is I want to find people who don't necessarily know about the meat-shaped stone, and then either mail them a piece of art in the shape.
+
+[14:39] So first you start with the meat-shaped stone, then you make the tongue po pork in the shape of a meat-shaped stone. You serve that tongue po pork to an artist. Then you tell the artist, make that. Don't tell them anything else. They make that, then you hand that to a chef and you say, make that.
+
+[14:54] And you keep going until and my theory is eventually it'll turn into a meatball. Because first you start with a meat-shaped stone, and then what I had at the restaurant was meat-shaped stone shaped meat. But then I want a meat-shaped, meat-shaped stone. And then you keep going and you see how many layers of meat shape and stone before it just turns into a meatball. Anyway, uh, I think it's a great art project, and that's why I have meat shaped stone as my Instagram uh as an Instagram handle, but uh, you know, but I haven't really I haven't really used it yet, although there is a picture of the meat-shaped stone up there.
+
+[15:32] So, you know, if anyone wants to do that with me. Could you just take no but could you just build on the meat shaped stone so then you just have layers like uh sort of like a turnout game? Like internal and then cut it open? I don't know. Look, we could do anything we want.
+
+[15:46] It's a it's a it's an as yet unrealized project about kind of a game of telephone with meat and stones. Do you know what I'm saying? So it's I mean like in my mind, it's one thing, but what it is in my mind isn't necessarily the best thing it can be. This is the problem when people don't take input from outside. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[15:59] What it is in my mind isn't necessarily the best it. I know there is something there, but I have not as yet realized that something other than to take the Instagram handle, which of course is the first thing anyone has to do. Um yeah. I will say Jack has posted the image of the stone in the Discord. Everyone should join uh the cooking issues, Patreon for access to the Discord.
+
+[16:34] That's a meat shaped stone. Yeah. It really is. Okay, I just I just Google the meat shape stone. Uh yeah, I see it.
+
+[16:43] That is a crazy um platform for it. Yeah, it is crazy. You know what's even more kind of crazy is that much more culturally important and right next to it is the jade cabbage. There is a jade Napa cabbage, a jade. It's not jade, it's jade cabbage.
+
+[17:01] Yeah. And culturally, as a work of art, the jade cabbage, much more important, right? As a work of art. Nobody cares about the cabbage. You can get right up to the cabbage, no problem.
+
+[17:12] If you want to get up to the meat shape stone, you have to beat back lines of people because everyone wants to go see the meat shape stone and and nobody cares about the cabbage. Ain't nobody cared about the cabbage. Are you thinking that people are gonna have to make the platform also? That's the more crazy part. Do you bake that?
+
+[17:29] Like a pastry. You know, it's uh it's it's it's uh I'm getting fishbowled over here. It's uh well I I I don't know how much like kind of prompting you want to give to people and how much you want it to be up to them. I guess you need enough prompting such that some sort of differentiation stays long enough. I don't know.
+
+[17:44] Uh uh again, I'm agnostic about how we do it. I just think we should do and by the way, once you leave these basically you the first thing you do when you go to the museum is you rush to the room with the meat shaped stone and the jade cabbage just to get it out of the way. But then like every single case of like of like all the the porcelain there, it's like like piece after piece where you're like, I can't believe humans can make this. You know what I mean? It's just so beautiful the stuff, but whatever.
+
+[18:14] Whatever. And then they also had it won't be there. It was on uh what's it called? Semi-display, you know, whatever, uh non-permanent display. You know oood, the the the the smell, the uh incense, the wood.
+
+[18:27] Am I pronouncing it right? Oud, yeah. Super fancy, super expensive. So like they have the world's largest collection of carved ood wood, where like each piece is a huge c intricately carved, like with you know, like all with the flavor all like spalted out or whatever, ooh, you know, whatever the fungus is that ood is. And each one of those things, if you were gonna buy it, it's like a zillion dollars.
+
+[18:50] It's crazy. It's nuts. Anyway. And of course you can't go up and smoke one of them because it's like freaking, you know, a f also a sculpture made out of incredibly expensive hyper rare incense wood. So yeah, go.
+
+[19:04] Don't not go to the museum. All right. Uh hey, Quinn, you tease it out a little bit. Talk talk talk about the Patreon before we go any further because I'm gonna forget. Yeah, I mean Patreon.com slash cooking issues.
+
+[19:20] Uh you get announcements of when we have guests, you get uh prioritized questions, you'll get uh deals with uh Kitchen Arts and Letters and other people that we work with, and you'll get uh access to the Discord, which is already a great community to like talk about all sorts of uh hyper specific uh cooking ideas and just general good conversation. Yeah, yeah. And Quinn, uh before I forget, because I'm gonna forget, you got any food, you got any food trash from the past week or no? Uh my dad was sick, so I lost my helper. But I did make a avocado lime sorbet and a blood orange sorbet, but I still need to spin them.
+
+[20:12] So how is the avocado sorbet? How's the avocado sorbet? Oh, you didn't spin it. Yeah. I don't know.
+
+[20:17] I made an avocado sauce once that I was surprisingly like, but I like avocado so much, it makes me kind of nervous. Do you think it's gonna be good in the way that a coconut sorbet is good? Coconut's God sorbet. Come on, let's be honest. Coconut like coconut basis for sorbet's so good.
+
+[20:31] Unless you don't like it, in which case we can't have a conversation about it. I mean I think for the have you uh uh uh like I find that avocado honey is super savory and rich. Have you considered sweetening the avocado sorbet with avocado honey? Ooh. Although what Rich says is sounds like a very quin thing to do.
+
+[21:06] If I was gonna say if like I mean Oh yeah. If I had it, I wouldn't use it. I mean the pain in the butt about honey in general is that it's got twice the uh AFP as sugar because it's uh all monosaccharides. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[21:21] Isn't there all monosaccharides? Yes it is. Okay, Quinn. Once you're over 90% once you're over 95 or 98% monosaccharides, it's monosaccharides, a hundred percent. I mean, like what's the point?
+
+[21:32] You know what I mean? Like think of mentally it's easier to think about it as completely inverted than think of it as anything else. You know what I'm saying? I mean, there's also like protein in it like that. All right.
+
+[21:43] Well, you should go look you look. If you're if you join the Patreon, you get access to all of Quinn's uh freaking uh sorbet and ice cream spreadsheets with all the with all all this kind of stuff. But uh classic mistake people make when they're just formulating is think they can just swap out based on the eighty-two bricks with uh disaccharide, and they have made a horrible mistake if they do so. That's my only point. Yeah.
+
+[22:05] You know what I mean? That is a horrible mistake. Yeah, none of these things are wrong. None of these things are right. Um Rich though, you bring up interestingly, avocado honey.
+
+[22:28] What's the flavor of a avocado honey? It's it's just it's really rich. It's uh it's almost fatty when you eat it and it's vegetable. It's it doesn't taste like honey. It's it's kind of a interesting phenomenon, and I just I got addicted to it.
+
+[22:46] I was like and whenever I find it, I have to have it. Would it work in a cocktail? I need a fancy. I need a fancy honey for a cocktail. I think so.
+
+[22:54] Huh. Absolutely. Is it yeah, I could I could see that in like a bee bees knees or something? Yeah. Is it darker or lighter?
+
+[23:01] Is it is it like more like a buckwheat or more like a dark kids. More like buckwheat. It's super dark. Let me ask you a question. Does anybody like buckwheat honey?
+
+[23:10] Is there any human being on earth that likes buckwheat honey? I don't mind it. You guys are crazy. Amazing. What's so bad about buckwheat honey?
+
+[23:21] Because here's why. No one has ever on the history I like buckwheat a lot, but no one has ever woken up and been like, ooh, uh buckwheat honey. Let me get some. That's never happened. Not once.
+
+[23:33] In the history of humanity, it's never happened. Do you wait do you wake up in the morning and say, like, oh, I want some wildflower honey or like clover honey? No, I'm in butt I want some clover honey? No. But but like you sometimes you'd be like, sometimes you'll be like, I want some honey, and clover honey is like clover honey is the wonder bread of honey.
+
+[23:55] So it's just there. No offense to clover honey. You know what I mean? But it's just kind of there. So like if you want if if you wake up and you really want honey and someone hands you clover honey, you're like, all right.
+
+[24:04] If you wake up and you're like, I want honey, and someone says hand you buckwheat honey, you're like, Are you are you crazy? Are you nuts? You know what I mean? Like you're like, this doesn't work. I can my recipe can't use this.
+
+[24:14] This is filth. You know what I mean? It's like uh I can't the level of disappointment, the first three or four times I had buckwheat honey was the same level of disappointment. So they don't grade maple as you all know, they don't grade maple syrup A, B, C anymore, right? Uh there's great debate based on color.
+
+[24:33] But you know, basically you used to only be able to sell A and B, and C was like not really, it wasn't even a real grade. You couldn't have it. So anything below C, right, you'd have to kind of buy on the slide from somebody. And I was so excited when I first bought it from like a producer because I was like, oh, B is so good. This stuff's gonna be even better.
+
+[24:44] No, trash. It tastes like you're sucking on metal. It's the worst. You know what I mean? It's like it's terrible.
+
+[24:57] And it's the same thing with like probably buckwheat honey. Nasty. And okay, now I'm gonna get people to be like, don't hear no buckwheat honey. I grow nothing but buckwheat and I live on buckwheat honey. Well, I'm sorry for you.
+
+[25:07] You know? People are people are losing business now because of the thing. Nobody's nobody's losing business. Let me tell you something. If I if I had field after field of buckwheat, right, I should pay the beekeeper twice as much to come with their with their supers to hollinate uh to uh pollinate because they know that I'm making their bees make trash honey.
+
+[25:28] You know what I'm saying? So it's like for those for any beekeepers listening, I want to know do you charge buckwheat people more because you know that that honey is filth? Look, someone's gotta like it. It's just like anything else that tastes bad. Somebody's like, well, it's gotta be better for me because it tastes like trash.
+
+[25:47] So it's gotta be good for me. Um anyway. Speaking of Well, think about this. There's there's a market, there's a market for it. People are buying it.
+
+[25:55] I think people buy it once. You know? They're like, ooh, buckwheat, that sounds good. I'm sure it's gonna taste like buckwheat. Nope.
+
+[26:04] No, it will not. Uh before we get into the the the we're almost halfway through. We haven't even gotten to anything yet. But Jennifer, question for you. Because this is what I ask everybody, and I I just let me preface this.
+
+[26:15] I hate it when people don't give me a straight answer. I was where was I that someone didn't give me a straight answer on this, and it really bent me. What is it in Stonington? Well, first of all, like there could be many different places in Stonington, Connecticut, in terms of different microclimates, different kinds of soil, for all I know. Because Connecticut, I don't know if you know this, very geologically diverse state.
+
+[26:34] Very, very geologically diverse state for such a small state. But what comes out of the dirt best in Stonington? Like, what is it that Stonington was built to grow? Oh, that's a good question. I okay, so I have a garden, and I I am the laziest of gardeners.
+
+[26:55] I like put seeds in and hope for the best and pay attention to them only a little. Um I cannot grow basil. Other people seem to be able to, but mine gets eaten every year. And then, but what grows well? I mean, I grow the like the little orange tomatoes, and those I get tons of them every year.
+
+[27:13] Let's go with tomatoes. And then don't get eaten by voles and whatnot. Um, no. That's good. No.
+
+[27:21] And mine never get eaten. I had to when I was in uh place in Chester, Connecticut, I everything grew well one year until all the rodents figured out how to where it all was, and then I've got I glue grew great plants with no vegetables on them. You know what I mean? It's like it was a nightmare. I had to before I put the fence around my garden, I had a um groundhog that was eating, I think it was a groundhog.
+
+[27:45] Oh man. She was eating all my cucumbers, which I was growing specifically for my son who only eats cucumbers. I hear it. And at some point though, I was I had so many. I had like plenty of cucumbers, and I like looked at her.
+
+[27:57] I like we made eye contact, and I was like, you know what? You seem to be a mom, also, like we'll each take what we need, and we're good. You're too nice. You're too nice. Then I put a fence around it.
+
+[28:06] Yeah. And that was that. But uh I'll I will round that conversation out with: I've never eaten a groundhog, but I hear that first year groundhogs are delicious, but that after that age, they're not quite as good anymore. I've read this. It's good to know.
+
+[28:23] I don't have any experience with that either. Yeah. Does anybody have experience firsthand? I'd like to know. I don't know.
+
+[28:29] On the on air here, probably not. But like, you know, it it used to be a relatively back when people used to like shoot and eat uh meat on the regular uh, you know, in this area. Because like, you know, they're big out. I mean, obviously Punxatawny is in Pennsylvania, and they used to, in Punxita, used to publish a recipe book for a groundhog. Now you wouldn't eat groundhog on groundhog day because the you know the new groundhogs aren't out yet.
+
+[28:55] You want to eat them later. Like I say, you want like first seat, you want like the lamb equivalent of a groundhog, because they're already sized up, but they haven't gotten all, you know, musky and whatnot yet. So I'm told I've never eaten a groundhog. I would totally eat a groundhog. I've eaten many other like rodent-y style things, but uh, you know, I've had cooey, I've had capibera, I've had uh, you know, obviously rabbit.
+
+[29:18] I mean, they I've never had a rodent that wasn't good. What about the vole? Never it's small, right? Well, still, I mean it's a one bite little appetizer. One bite one bite, one bite rodents.
+
+[29:28] Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know, man. I don't know. You know what I hear is quite good. Muskrat.
+
+[29:33] I hear muskrat's quite good. Uh but again. Oh, how is the cafibara? It's good. It's a little tough, you know what I mean?
+
+[29:42] Like, but like I've only ever had it kind of grilled. Like, if I was gonna make it, I would have probably pounded the hell out of the pizza that I had. I would have pounded. I've had it two or three times, both times kind of grilled and on the tough side, but good. So I would have probably pounded the the the snot out of it and then maybe acid marinated for a little while.
+
+[30:01] You know what I mean? It would have been good. Yeah. There's a Capibara bar in Tokyo where you can hang out with Capilara. Do they serve copy bar or you hang out with a copy barra?
+
+[30:17] They don't they don't try to fake you out and give you a neutria instead. And you're like, this is a nutria. This is ridiculous. You know what I mean? I I hear Nutria also tastes good, by the way.
+
+[30:29] I don't know. Yeah. I mean, again, if a small rodent tastes good, why wouldn't a big rodent taste good? Um all right, hold on. Before we go too much further, let's talk about KojiCon.
+
+[30:42] Good. Uh Jen, do you want to start? Uh sure. Yeah. KojiCon is going on right now.
+
+[30:49] It just started two days ago, and they are still plenty of time to buy tickets. Um it's a two-week virtual conference. And so every day um we usually host like two or three sessions um exploring all things Koji. And uh the participants are from around the world, and the speakers are from all around the world with all kinds of different experiences, and um it's pretty awesome. It's uh all of the sessions are streamed to our YouTube channel, so you can watch them live or anytime after.
+
+[31:21] And um we are uh we also have a Discord channel that that people join and you know have lots of conversations, share pictures, share information. It's a pretty amazing community of people who come together. Rich, would you add anything to that? Yeah, I mean, I I think uh so basically it's uh this hatched idea that Jen and I had at the pandemic where originally we were going to have an in-person conference and the pandemic killed us so we went to virtual and it's an extension of essentially what we do as uh Koji and mold base for mentors is we just sort of socialize and talk and bounce around ideas and this is just more of a formalized and more cohesive way of doing it uh to make people feel supported and knowing things and and also not knowing things and uh there also there are a lot of neat exchanges that come out of it and folks who have no idea what Koji is show up and they're also scientists of like the nth degree and chefs and you know culinarians and artisans and makers so it's it's quite the crew and um especially this year has been interesting is I actually don't know a lot of the names which is part of uh our the outreach that we did this year to you know ask basically ask the community who should be talking at the conference so that's been really cool to see as a variety of perspectives. Yeah and tell them again how to sign up for and so the stuff that they've already missed unfortunately people who are not Patreon members which you should be a Patreon member but if people who aren't a Patreon member they you know that they'll hear this on Friday but how do they sign up to see the things that have already happened or it's just tell them again how to get to it and whatnot.
+
+[33:07] Yeah so it's the the website is cogicon.org and um you can buy tickets really right up until um the last day of the conference, which is March 2nd. So everything that has happened so far, there's a link um on the ticket holder access page, and they can watch it at any time. And um and then anything that's coming up they can watch live or whenever is convenient. And then we also include all of the content from the previous four years in the ticket holder access. And you have ac you can check on that anytime through November of 2025.
+
+[33:40] So there's so much time to watch everything. And there's I think something like 200 hours of content at this point that's included with the ticket holder access. So all the new content from this year plus all of the previous four years. That's awesome. Random question.
+
+[33:54] When you buy a dot org, are they like prove it? Or could I buy a.org for something that's not a dot org. Anyone can buy a.org. Wow. Or something that's not a dot org.
+
+[34:05] That's like the ice cream or it's like the ice cream museum. Not a museum. Ice cream museum. I feel like you need um I was gonna say meetshapestone.org. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[34:15] I should get that. Well, you know, uh, Jennifer, you're a museum, you're a museum person. It's like what doesn't it I mean, like uh I mean like you, I'm sure deserve your you know, your dot org website, but it irritates me no end that places like the ice cream museum can pretend to be a museum and you know I'm sorry, even today words have meaning. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[34:36] Yeah. I I I definitely uh bristle a little. Yeah. Sort of like grateful that people are, you know, wanting to adopt the museum word to do something kind of cool. So the museum word.
+
+[34:49] I don't know. The M word. I think it maybe maybe gets people to do the book. Yes. Yeah.
+
+[34:57] What do you got, Clay? I just spun the avocado lime through me. I tasted it. So when you say you just spun it, was it in the creamy? Worst name ever?
+
+[35:11] Yeah, in the ninja creamy. Yeah. Oh, I like it. Not not any creamy, the ninja creamy. All right, yeah, all right.
+
+[35:16] Well, they did send you one, so I guess it's fair to push them out. So how was it? Yeah. Um, again, it's accomplishing what I wanted, and that the the flavor is totally dominated by the lime, and then the avocado is providing a good texture, but it needs uh even more sweetness. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[35:39] You're not really selling it with the well it accomplished what I looked for. Well, it's not really selling it. Yeah, yeah. I'm developing the recipe. I see.
+
+[35:49] All right, all right, all right, very good. Um just add buckle honey to it. If you want if you want to add a if you want to add like a a sous of poison, um yeah, put in the buckle honey. Um wrote in, can I use my Innova oven to inoculate my Koji spores? Uh I struggled with a sous v setup to try to maintain the temperature while inoculating.
+
+[36:14] Uh when you're saying sous vasco, I'm assuming you actually just mean an immersion circulator in a bag. You're not vacuuming it, right? Anyway, go ahead. What do you guys think? Uh so I'm trying like so when you talk about inoculating, like he's not inoculating spores.
+
+[36:31] He's he's growing he's growing the mold with the spores. So I think he's talking about just creating a humid environment. And you can definitely do that with uh your ANOVA, no problem. Yeah. You know, just creamy tried this.
+
+[36:48] I will say I I struggled when you have the temperature so low on the ANOVA, I struggled to get uh high enough humidity. I think a lot of the you know humidity production here tied to the other is there so I I would say you could just put a um damp towel over it. Uh or you could put some plastic wrap and perforate it and that should uh solve the drying problem. Yeah, I don't have first of all we should note that uh Lasco did not say whether or not they're have a one point oh or a two point oh. All my experience with an ANOVA is with a one point oh.
+
+[37:33] So I have no idea what the differences are between a 2.0 or a 1.0. If anyone from ANOVA can hear my voice, you could send us one and we'll test it. I'll let everyone know how different the 2.0 is from the 1.0, if in fact it is different. Uh I tried that already. But the well I'm saying it again.
+
+[37:49] You know, Quinn, you're not a believer in multiple tries, right? Like unless somebody says no, eat poop and and die, then you know, they haven't said no yet. You know what I mean? Like like absence only in the business of television and media is absence of yes always no. Like in other businesses, it's not always the case.
+
+[38:10] You know what I mean? Um, my issue with the ANOVA at lower temperatures at a hundred percent humidity is that everything gets soupy, and then you end up having when you're holding things for a long time. So I don't know how long you're gonna be, you know, keeping it at those temperatures, but like, you know, you get like a you overflow the the drip tray at the front. So when you're doing like when I'm talking like hours and hours and hours and hours and hours of like low temping and in those things, you you like uh you develop these leaks, and so you have to like put towels on your countertop, blah blah blah, blah blah boop. You know what I mean?
+
+[38:43] I think you're probably better off just using uh which if you're curious, you can get the book Koji Alchemy or you could just join uh Koji Con now and go see like eight billion people's different setups for how to do this. But I think you could do it in a much more energy efficient way than than using an anova I would guess. Yeah yeah. So so here's the thing what I always tell people is that if you uh if you get the book of Miso um basically the there's this there's this uh setup that have like I think it's a sketch of like an old grandma and she just has a box and some um hot water bottles and a blanket so she just takes her Koji trays with hot water bottles and uh and a blanket and puts it over this box and that's it. So whenever people try to come up with all these complex ways of uh creating an incubator like you don't need all that crazy stuff you just need enough humidity that your uh starch medium doesn't dry out and you just need enough well warmth to like you know keep keep it going and that's like you know 86F like you know 30 C is not really hard to get to um and you only have to get keep it there for a day because once the uh Koji starts growing it it goes exothermic.
+
+[40:08] So you want to then you start cooling it. So you don't even have to worry about heat after the first leak. I think it's like 17 hours but you think that grandma swaps the bottles between her grandkids' beds and her Koji setup? Probably. I mean I like I have a cooler setup that like I can just throw hot, like I can just take uh air cooler, put hot water in it, and then put some hotel trees in it, and that's that's my incubator.
+
+[40:36] That's it. Yeah. Um you guys familiar with the uh this is Matt from Mystics, so this is also you know, hometown hero for you, Jennifer. But uh are you guys familiar with the YouTube videos, uh Papa Shell Cooks Fish, Papa Shell Fish Cooking? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[40:55] Yeah, I've I mean I've I haven't watched his YouTube stuff, but I've seen his Instagram stuff. Okay, okay, fine. So this is quite so this question will make sense, and you know, uh so uh this was written before I know that Matt knew I guess you guys were gonna be on. But can you please weigh in on what the hell this guy is doing? And I will tell you that so you don't have to watch all of the YouTube videos, which by the way, thankfully they have uh YouTube.
+
+[41:19] I don't know whether it's auto-translate or what, but for those of us that you know only speak English, they have it in English writing underneath. I don't know how good the translations are, but someone can tell me. Um what they're doing is the aging fish and uh uh with mold. And I have to also say that I have never I have not yet been to one of these restaurants or done the dry age fish thing. So I have no personal experience with it, but they're using a mucor mold, uh, mucor flavus, which is like the the cultivated mold for one of the not the one you use which, but one of the cultivated molds for dry aging meat, uh that you know you can go look up, for instance, uh you can go look up uh uh dry aged beef quality with the addition of mucor flavus, sensory, chemosensory and fatty acid analysis for information on what this does in red meat, but they're they're doing it on fish.
+
+[42:10] So do you guys have any feelings on on this uh technique? I mean, I think it's perfectly fine to be doing it. I don't it's not unsafe. I mean, we have mucor that's in plenty of Asian condiments that are started like you know, like fermented black beans or tofu. So I mean, safety wise, it's totally fine.
+
+[42:33] I've never I've never had the flavor of mucoral uh uh aged meat or fish. So it'd be interesting. Um I mean you're cre you're creating you're creating emo amino acids and peptides from the fish itself, so it should be easy. Yeah, I believe it's a look at I think it's just like deh dehydration, like uh petitization and and uh and uh dare I say dehydration and uh tenderization. That's that's basically what you're getting with it in meat.
+
+[43:04] I've never really done it in fish, but if you're watching their video, and by the way, the name of the video is aging fish with mold, but spelled the stupid British way with a U, volume one, Papa Shell's long video, uh comeback edition, and then where you actually see them do it, right? Because the first video is like 18 minutes and they're just wasted the entire time, it's wasted. Uh the second one is aging fish with muc mucor mold uh volume two. And I will say this he does an interesting thing where do you guys familiar with the like the the technique of cutting fish scales off versus using a scaler? Love it.
+
+[43:38] I hadn't seen it in a long time, and I was like, oh, sweet, because I used to learn have to learn how to do that. He does one half with a scalar and the other half by cutting off the scales, but then doesn't tell you in the when they're tasting it what the difference is or if there was a difference. So I was a little disappointed by that. And also, I don't think his uh I don't think his uh microbiology techniques were too good. So here's a couple of things that, and I haven't done, I haven't done agar plates in a long time.
+
+[44:03] But uh the the mucor that he got from his his body, right, looked pretty good. And then he went to culture his own on agar plates. I find if but he culture get this, and so you'll appreciate this. So what what he did was he just opens his agar plates and then grabs a chunk and then like all in the open, like with like tweezers and puts it in and drops it. I'm like, listen, like at a very basic level, at a very basic level, use like by the nitro by the Nichrome loop, it costs nothing and flame it, and then keep and at least keep the lid over the thing when you're doing the transfer.
+
+[44:41] You know, use hot agar, right? So much cross comparation. Yeah, I mean, like, what the hell? Like, why are you even bothering culturing? Why don't you just sneeze into the damn thing and call it a day?
+
+[44:52] Why are you bothering culturing if you're not using basic culture practices, right? And then Rich, you're gonna go nuts. All right, Jennifer, I don't know you use well, but you Rich gonna go nuts. Here's how he does it. So it in order to inoculate the freaking fish, right?
+
+[45:06] And again, I don't know the guy, maybe the guy is you know, whatever. He takes the the agar, the mucor off of the agar substrate, which he didn't say what you know what the you did nothing eats just agar, so like malt is a apparently a good thing that you we used to use uh broth, but you can use malt extract, right? So like 5% malt extract, uh, you know, five grams of malt extract, five grams of agar, 250 water, boom. Cook it all up, pour it into your casket, pour it into your plates while it's still boiling hot, which is an advantage of agar, because you have to boil it, put the lid on it, boom. Now it's now it's good to go because it's sterile, it's not sterilized, but it's you know, whatever.
+
+[45:45] So he then takes the the the mold out of the agar and he suspends it in purified, which I guess means like distilled water, and I'm like, hello, buddy. Like you're basically like you're destroying the viability of a huge amount of that stuff by putting it in such a in crazy hypotonic solution. You're you know, you're if you ever played Dig Doug, you ever played the game Dig Doug, where like the the Dig Dug dude like has that air inflation thing and he shoves it into the creatures and inflates them till they explode? Like that's basically what you're doing with purify water. Like use something at least isotonic with the freaking growth medium, my guy.
+
+[46:25] Come on. Come on, please. Uh so those are my comments. Do you have any more comments on this uh style of thing or no? No, I mean uh I I wonder what it I I mean I'd be interested in anybody who tasted the meth, you know, the fish from method.
+
+[46:45] They did. They said it was mild. They said it was mild. Like they're looking for quote unquote like a nuttiness from the mucor. And I was like, I would be looking more for like increased uh like increased um you know free amino acids, increased like that kind of flavor.
+
+[47:01] Right. I would like, you know, want to know if there was a lot of things. Those are something that would be better to do with coji. Yeah. You know.
+
+[47:09] What's the longest have you have you done the whole like long, long, long age koji fish thing or no? No, I haven't. Like you should probably I mean, Jeremy's the dude out of like the long aging stuff. Yeah, so yeah. Yeah.
+
+[47:24] That's not my like that's not my, yes, not my I uh when I was in uh freaking Sydney, I I wanted to go to the restaurant of like, you know, the the fish aging restaurant there whose name escapes me, but I didn't get a chance to. I w what I really want is to be invited to someone who like is like a fish, one of these long age, whatever however they do it, whether they do it just blank, whether they do it inoculated. Oh, I will say this. Papa Shell did something that I want to go to a restaurant, I want them side by side. I want like the normal mo, you know, standard, and I want age side by side.
+
+[47:56] This way, technique is removed, all the things are removed except for the aging. I would pay good money for that, even and and I would say without all the gussying up. I don't want it gussied. I just want to taste fish two ways. It's the same way that like, you know, when we used to do Ikejime experiments, you know, like uh spine spinal ablation and and you know, um brain spiking, we would do yes and no side by side, blank.
+
+[48:22] You know, we would like cook it blank, or we would cut it sashimi, same muscle, two times blank. And that's the only way to really do it. You know what I mean? For me to s actually see what the result is, but like, you know, some you know someone should do it. And then, you know, you know, I'll pay for it.
+
+[48:37] You know, I mean, I'll pay a reasonable amount. I'm like, I'm gonna go crazy. Uh but what Papa Shell did do, I didn't get a chance to look at his other videos, is that I had this idea when I started doing uh I I'm not talking on air about this a million times, but when I first started doing uh spinal ablation, you know, ekigime techniques, including spinal ablation and and brain spiking and bleeding, uh, you know, I was like, we could totally we could totally um do this on other animals and at the same time use their circulatory system the way that you use with a ham and perfuse them with like uh a marinade or a or uh while while they're still being slaughtered, you could get rid of the blood with a perfusion setup and replace it with a flavor. And he's he's doing that with fish. But I didn't get a chance to look at the videos.
+
+[49:26] But whenever when I when I recommended this to people, people were like, You're basically Dr. Mengela. And I'm like, what? Like I'm anesthetizing these animals and and and slaughtering them in the most humane way possible. And why is it that using a medical procedure on them to make them taste better?
+
+[49:44] Why does that make me a Nazi all of a sudden? You know what I'm saying? It's like we're already killing the animal is crazy. But people have a people have a very, very, very, very negative reaction to using anything that looks like a medical procedure when you're gonna kill and eat something. They just have a hugely visceral, non-logical reaction.
+
+[50:03] So the the FCI would not let me do it. I had people lined up. Whoa. I had a guy at Harvard lined up to do it, and uh FCI was like, No, no, you're not. No, you're not.
+
+[50:14] Anyway. Uh all right. Yeah. Um, let me see. Let's see what we got.
+
+[50:20] We got some what you we got some questions. Let me just knock let me knock these questions out. Um I would recommend jumping to uh L Bert question. Well, I was I was I was going to do that. I was I was going to do that.
+
+[50:35] Wait. Uh but is there though? Well, it doesn't specifically mention anyway. Uh L Butts writes, recently made a dish from the broadsheet Melbourne Cookbook, a restaurant recipe compilation book, presumably from Melbourne, Australia. There was a risotto dish with corn and truffle.
+
+[50:51] I didn't have truffle because it's summer in upside downtown. Uh the recipe was pretty standard. Rizzotto spec. The only riff was that they infused the corn stock with corn cobs. Uh thought the recipe was a bit boring, so I juiced the roasted corn, which is incredibly wasteful uh in terms of yield, and added the juice at the end instead of the creamslash butter.
+
+[51:09] The starchiness of the juice did create quite a uh quite a bit of tur in terms of adding creaminess as well as flavor. I tasted the juice on its own and it was delicious and it was quite starchy. I was wondering if the ginger clarification technique would work on the corn juice, or would there be a better way of doing it? Uh also interested in a cocktail uses ideas. I think that my guess is I've never had a clarified corn dish where I was like, I need another ten of those in my life.
+
+[51:34] And I think the issue is is that there's just something about when you clarify the corn, it loses a lot. I think the starch clarification with uh magnesium carbonate would work. The problem is is that there's no such single thing as magnesium carbonate. It's a bunch of different hydrates of magnesium carbonate, and I haven't figured out which is the one I have that works yet, so I can't recommend which one that you need to buy. It also makes it basic, so you'll need to readjust it with a acidity afterwards.
+
+[52:02] But what would you thought? What do you think the Koji thing in that was, Quinn? Well, again, I was gonna suggest if the corn is roasted and the starch is gelatinized, they could combine it with either a pure amaly or a natural corn or amaly, like a koji, break down the starch, and then they would clarify uh e beer. Yeah, I mean, I know people who have done it. Don, my old partner Don did some of that stuff.
+
+[52:31] Nothing nothing comes out crystal, and then it's also fermented. You know? Well it's not fermented, it's just broken down. Well, I mean, but the other things are going on. It's not like you're well, if you're adding a pure enzyme, yes, you can do it in like an hour and you're and you'll be fine.
+
+[52:47] But if you're adding like Koji has its own flavors, it's doing other things other than just amylase action. You know what I mean? So that's a different flavor that you're adding to it. Everything I think it probably tastes good. Well maybe but it wouldn't be purely the corn flavor.
+
+[53:03] You know what I mean? I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm saying it's not purely the corn flavor. I think you get corn curgy. It still wouldn't taste like just like corn, you know, in the same way that beer doesn't taste like barley.
+
+[53:16] You know what I mean? It's like um barley's weird. Uh anyway, whatever I'm not gonna get into barley. Um okay Wenrick writes in this is a great question. Uh by the way, uh, where do you guys stand on plastics in terms of uh like using using are you like are you do you try to stay out of the argument and just like hope that nobody asks you the question in terms of I don't want plastics touching my food blah blah blah which plastics touch my food etc etc do you just try to avoid this entirely so that you don't have to talk about it no I'd say like well the thing is like whether you realize it or not plastics are touching your food all the time like like plumbing for example right like not here.
+
+[54:02] Here it's still copyright yeah still like you're getting plastic no matter what what you do in your in your water in your food. Yeah. I mean what do you think about this? You know, the recent studies uh that have been coming out where they've been um chumming up human brains and determining what percentage of the brain is microplastics of a modern brain is my you've seen this and it's no I haven't seen it's some incredibly high number, right? For considering that like the blood brain barrier is you know supposedly very difficult to cross.
+
+[54:38] It's for that, it's an incredibly high number. But when I heard the number and the person was like dun dun dun dun dun dun, and they gave me the number, I was like, is that all? Is that it? I want more plastic in my brain. Um I I don't really think that, but I don't know.
+
+[54:51] It's like uh it's an interesting question. But um the problem uh here is about plastic wrap. So 99% of commercial plastic wrap is PVC, polyvinyl chloride. And the re the reason, and I don't know that it's just cost, is that PVC of all of the plastic wraps is uh the clingiest. It is the clingyest.
+
+[55:13] So if you like cling, if you like it to cling, right, then PVC is good. Uh but from a if you I don't like PVC because it smells bad, right? And so if it smells bad, and I I find that it gets a lot more what's called flavor, you know, uh flavor scalping, flavor thieving, you know what I mean, where it's like taking flavor from the by the way, flavor scalping's a technical term, but is it not an offensive term? Do they need a different term? Is it offensive?
+
+[55:41] I think it's offensive. Someone needs to come up with a different technical term for something that steals flavor from something else. Someone tell me what the new non-shaving. Well, it's shaving it's well, it's like st I don't know. Someone there has someone else is already probably flavor heist.
+
+[56:01] Someone is already thought that. I mean, uh it goes both ways too, right? So the nasty plastic flavor goes like, for instance, when you wrap certain high fat cheeses in like commercial plastic wrap, and then the cheese is ruined. And the plastic wrap now smells like the cheese forever. You know what I mean?
+
+[56:18] But like, for instance, alliums, even in polypropylene, which doesn't have a lot of transfer, uh alliums transfer like a mother, which is, you know, how many, how many grape clarified grapefruit juice batches have been ruined in bars I've owned based on quart containers full of scallions, I can't count and do not wish to. Um but uh PVC is uh is the one that a lot of people like to stay away from. The problem is 99% of all commercial plastic wrap is PVC. And I think this is for very kind of bad reason is that when people are shopping for plastic wrap in the store, they're looking for non-PVC. So things like uh saran, which used to be PVDC, which no one uses anymore, is polyethylene, right?
+
+[57:05] So Wenrik was like, I love Reynolds Food Service wrap, but I believe it's PVC. Does anyone know if any big 15-inch wide commercial food wrap is made of food-safe materials? I believe the better alternative is called alternative is called polyolefin. Thanks. Well, polyolefin is just a category.
+
+[57:19] Polyethylene is a polyolefin. The other famous polyolefin is polypropylene, right? But what we're talking about here is polyethylene. Olafin, olefin just means uh something with a carbon double bond in it. So ethylene versus propylene, and then you poly it and it gets all polied out, so you get a polyolefin, but polyethylene.
+
+[57:36] Um I have not found, sorry, Wenrick, I have not found a good commercial plastic wrap that is polyethylene. But if someone can let me know. So, so for instance, if you go to Stretch tight, which is kind of a commercial-sized plastic wrap with a good uh zipper thing on it that you can get at like Costco and whatnot, uh, all over their website, it says, uh, no, you know, no BPA, no this, no that, but it doesn't, and it nowhere on the website does it say it's PVC. But if you look at it, it says recyclable, recyclable number three. And when you look at what recyclable number three is, guess what it is?
+
+[58:11] Oh, it's PVC. So uh I don't know if do you guys know of any good polyethylene branded uh whatever? No, no. Not me either. Xander says, is there a resource like a calculator which can calculate the viscosity of a solution based off of ratios of water, alcohol, sugar, fat, and thickeners?
+
+[58:30] I know the viscosity is not climb linear, but at levels of one to fifty, I don't know what you mean, one to 50 centipoys. Uh is it an easy way to calculate? Nope. The question is, why do you actually want to calculate this? You can calculate uh it's very complicated.
+
+[58:43] You can get close to certain things, but download the program cool prop C O O L P R O P. And it can do some mixtures, but they're not necessarily accurate. But Xander, ask yourself why do you want to calculate the viscosity? What is it that you think that will tell you that is helpful, right? Uh, because the uh short answer is no, I don't think that you can do that.
+
+[59:05] Uh Quinn, did we get to all the questions? Did I get them all? Do I have 45 seconds of just talking to these folks? All right, well, he's double checking. So what do you guys got to say about what do you got to say about Koji on the way out?
+
+[59:17] Jack, have you got anything on the way out? I mean, if I feel like a 40 seconds, I'm usually rushing towards the end. Nothing. Sign up for KojiCon. It's awesome.
+
+[59:28] There you go. You'll love it. Jennifer Robin Branks in with it. Sign up for KojiCon on the way out. That's what I'm talking about.
+
+[59:34] Jack, you ever go to uh do you ever go to uh you ever do any koji work at home or no? Oh, he's oh, he's gone. I lost him already. All right, whatever. So go to KojiCon, sign up for the next like almost year, you get 200 hours of like Koji goodness, including how to not use your ANOVA to uh grow uh grow your koji.
+
+[59:55] Uh I still believe Koji is the best seasoning that any culinarian or cut can use with very little effort. All right, well we'll end on that. Thanks, folks. Thanks for coming on and talking Koji with us. Thank you.
+
+[1:00:09] Thanks so much, Dave. Send a blast. Cooking Koji issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you alive from the heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City, New State of Studios, joined as usual with John Bahani. How you doing, John? Doing great, thanks. You're back.
+
+[0:21] You missed last week, I think. But it was because it was on the wrong day, yeah. Yes, yeah, yeah. Unfortunately, couldn't be there. Yeah, how's it?
+
+[0:25] How's it going? It's going. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[0:27] Still still sucking in wind, as they say. Yeah, yeah. Somehow. Yeah, I know, right? Why?
+
+[0:33] Uh got uh Joe Hazenrock in the panels. How you doing? I'm doing very well. Welcome everybody. You got a full house.
+
+[0:38] Yeah, almost. We do almost. We do not yet in the upper left-hand corner have Quinn, but we hope to get him later on in the program. He's feeling a little bit under the weather, but we do have Jackie Molecules. How you doing?
+
+[0:50] Yeah. Yeah, well, we'll talk about that in a minute. And of course not least, back from uh just got back in LA last night, Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing? I'm good.
+
+[1:03] Yeah. Uh all right. And today's and uh today's special guest, first time on the show, is uh sorry, Endolyn, the uh well let me see. What how do you like to describe yourself? You like first came to my attention because you wrote the quotes for the uh legacy quilt for the Museum of Foods uh exhibition.
+
+[1:20] Uh but you also uh wrote a book called Rise with uh Marcus Samuelson and Black Power Kitchen with uh the ghetto gastro crew and you have uh another book coming up. You're you're all over the all over the place doing everything all the time. I like to call myself a storyteller, but oftentimes that just probes more questions. So I, you know, writer still works, but I think also cultural strategist has been a term that I kind of made up. Right.
+
+[1:46] Uh that encompasses a lot of the work I do that isn't always public facing, but is public impacting. In my life, storyteller is a liar. I'm kidding, I'm just yeah, but I mean I tell the stories. That there is some some truth to that, even you know, on the spectrum of storyteller to Grio, you know, but also someone who can pull together threads from different places and and keep a common narrative going, you know. All right.
+
+[2:11] Well, this the beginning of the show is the portion where we kind of shoot the breeze over whatever happened in the past week or so, ever since the last time we spoke to each other, which for us would be almost infinity. I did see you at uh John's uh friends and family uh a while back. Did you have a good time? I love putting you on the spot. I love uh you know if fun this is also something we can talk about in regards to having criticality around food, but uh you can't pay me to like something, right?
+
+[2:38] So like I but I I love Jean's food and the the interpretation that he's bringing to um to the wine bar. I think uh my favorite are the the veal croquettes. Yeah, a little bit of a ballm, thank you. Yeah, that's it. That's great having you both over.
+
+[2:52] So I appreciate you coming in every time you're well. Uh all right, so uh what do you what do you I know Jack's got something just happened, fresh in, not food related, but go. Yeah, car broken into in my own driveway. Um it's it's like it's obviously not funny. It's uh it's just a weird feel I hate the feeling of just somebody going through things.
+
+[3:16] We need to we need the details. Smash window, not smash whe window, pop trunk, not pop trunk. Popped trunk. Trunk is popped, things uh are on the floor outside of the trunk, so like some of my camping stuff's been taken apart. I and at a quick glance, and I don't know, I've done a full inventory, right?
+
+[3:33] But here's the sort of funny thing. Uh I don't see anything major that's been taken, except I had a box in the trunk that was the Apple studio monitor box. No monitor in the box. That's gone. So did they just need a box?
+
+[3:51] Ran off with an empty. No, I think they didn't look in the box and they probably thought, oh wow, a brand new monitor, and ran off with it. But it doesn't weigh as much. I mean, unless they're completely stunned on the box doesn't weigh as much as a box with a monitor. People who steal things, no matter like what, they steal the things usually for a purpose.
+
+[4:11] Nobody steals things for no reason. I mean, kids do. Kids do that. But you know what I mean? But like adults typically steal things for a reason.
+
+[4:18] It seems weird that they would not know. I mean, the funny thing is that box was just taking up space in my trunk. It was kind of annoying. I I had meant to throw it out. You're gonna fix the trunk lock, or you're gonna use a screwdriver for the rest of your life.
+
+[4:29] No, I mean I'm wondering if it was uh me that left it unlocked because I can't imagine how else they would have gotten in. Yeah. Very confusing. But that's how my that happened about one minute before uh Joe called me for the show. Nice.
+
+[4:41] That's funny well, you know, uh it's weird. I wouldn't even know how to break into a modern car. You know what I mean? Like back back when I used to worry about that stuff, you could literally just break into a car with like you know, a screwdriver, a piece of metal, you know what I mean? Pop the lock out of the trunk.
+
+[4:54] Yeah, totally. Any night, so I just stopped replacing the locks because I had out of state, I was stupid enough to move into the city in the early 90s with out of state plates, without doing the street parking. And every single night, trunk lock pop. I'm like, nope, dumb done. I just left it open.
+
+[5:13] I'm like, hey, look at look at take take it. You know, hell, I'll put my garbage in there. Take it. You know what I mean? Take it, it.
+
+[5:21] It's yours. Uh and anyway, sorry about that. Hopefully they didn't damage this the car too much. That's the same. When someone breaks the window, that's stuff, but then now you're now you're a cardboard and duct tape man.
+
+[5:32] You don't want to be cardboard and duct tape man. You know what I mean? No one does. No, no. No one does.
+
+[5:37] I've been there too. Uh you don't want to be that. Very quick, another quick announcement, Dave, that I want to make. Um just for our listeners, our our Patreon listeners. Um the Discord has been reset up.
+
+[5:50] There's there's now a what does that mean? Is there a problem? Did we did we get to the there was a backdoor? Nope, nope. There was a backdoor way in which non-patreon subscribers could be on the Discord.
+
+[6:01] So we'll tighten that up. And uh so now, you know, instructions have been posted on Patreon. And um if you cannot get access to the Discord, feel free to message us. And uh there is a channel on the Discord that you can sort of post uh for troubleshooting and how to get the connection working. But just in case anybody missed that memo, um be sure to reconnect to your Discord access through Patreon.
+
+[6:28] Nice. You know what? You sound sad like your car was broken into you and you feel violated. I'm sorry for that. You do sound a little bit sad.
+
+[6:33] You don't sound your usual Jackie molecule self, you know what I mean? It's a bummer, man. Yeah. I hate it. Yeah, it's uh Stas.
+
+[6:43] Do you have any stories from you were away for you know better part of a week in another country? Do you have any food stories to share with us, or did you eat nothing but Pablum the entire time you were gone? Uh I can't share any of the food stories. But I went to Night on Earth last night and the cocktails were still good. Nice.
+
+[7:01] Like the food is secret? What what'd you eat? Human? Is this like when Jack went to like is this when Jack went to uh Japan, came back and ate whale and we never let him forget it? No, no.
+
+[7:15] All right. Okay. What about you, Osai? You got anything over the past week or so food-wise? The past week.
+
+[7:22] Can be two weeks, can be infinity. Recent. Oh man. You know, I have trouble thinking about yesterday. I mean, just yesterday I went to a kind of a cool event that was featuring Wagyu.
+
+[7:34] Oh yeah? Like in what way featuring? So this brand out of Australia called West Home. I'd just been introduced to it. And uh yeah, they had this event where they had uh the chefs from Kasama, from Servos and Eelbar, and um saga uh cooking with this meat.
+
+[7:53] So was it stand-up or was it like real property? It was all standing. Was it was still good, even though it's standing. You know, standing is never the same. I never look I never judge someone based on what they can cook stay.
+
+[8:04] I mean, we all cook standing up, you know what I mean, though, serving in that way. But for these chefs, you know, I mean, that was the real draw for me. I was like, say less. And I was in there. How's the meat?
+
+[8:14] It was delicious. I mean, if you're gonna be eating meat, you know, I love, yeah, it was it was amazing. I have no, I have no notes. That was that was just last night. Nice.
+
+[8:23] Um, I also had some beautiful tamales from um a small kind of uh I don't know if it's permanent, but it's up in Bushwick and these various vendors come and they they've got tacos, they've got pesquite, they've got all all kinds of stuff. Atole and tamales. And the first time I went, they were they'd sold out of tamales. So I was very sad. This time I was early enough.
+
+[8:49] And what's your feeling? And you know, Nastasia can weigh in here. She has very strong feelings. But what is your feeling on the masa to feeling ratio in a tomato? Or are you agnostic and it depends on the person making it?
+
+[9:02] I think it yeah, I think it's very practitioner-based. You know, I feel like I'm not in charge of dictating people's tamales. So uh, but these were I mean, these were hefty, as I think most tamales should be. Um there was one that was mole chicken, there was like uh a verde, and then there was one that had no palace, and it was just I was just so happy to be having tamales. The last three times I've cooked no palas, I haven't been happy.
+
+[9:30] I've cooked for years, always been happy. And in the last three times, I've like lost the touch. It happened with mustard seeds too. I used to pressure cook mustard seeds all the time, and then I lost a touch. I gotta get the touch back.
+
+[9:40] I don't know what it is. I just I get very moved when I see tamales because even down to just tying the corn husk around, you know, the the preparation to me is just such an act of waiver and intentionality, like someone did this for me. So so so the so no one's left hanging, if in case they haven't heard her talk say as many times. Stas, what's your ideal, what's your ideal tamale? A lot of filling, like not much masa.
+
+[10:07] Like I want it to be like the the masa is like or the yeah, the masa is almost like transparent where you can see all the shit you're gonna get inside of it. So yeah. That's Nastasia has a very good yeah. I mean, she's always been this way. This is not like uh Nastasia come lately opinion.
+
+[10:24] Yeah, you know what I mean. Thes tamales were not that, but I do I do understand that tamales. Yeah. Nobody's are. Nobody's are because they're cheap with the meat, and everyone's used to a lot of masa, and everyone accepts it, and they're like, oh wow, these are good, but no, they're not.
+
+[10:40] Stas, give me, give me, give me some cheapest meat. Give me some cheapest meat. No, you do it. I cannot. We're making fun of uh our old our old partner who uh at a museum of food event got bent at a chef.
+
+[10:52] I've said this story many times. He got bent at a chef because he thought he ordered every lamb rack on the Eastern Seaboard. When in fact, the chef had ordered a reasonable amount of lamb racks for the number of people who were coming to the event. Okay. And he got mad because he's like, he wants these fantastic lamb, but he always buys the cheapest meat, the cheapest meat for his restaurant.
+
+[11:12] And that's what so whenever Anastasius says that they're being cheap with the mate, in my head, I got the cheapest meat going on in my head. You know what I mean? Stas, was that accurate or inaccurate? Oh yeah. Yeah.
+
+[11:23] Very accurate. That's a deep cut joke for you. Well, but it's like it's like a well, here's something about restaurants. The rat restaurants. You can meet everyone weigh in on this.
+
+[11:31] This is something that I've meant to talk about for the past infinity on this show, and we never get around to it. When you go, with very few exceptions of restaurants, when you go into a restaurant, like the guest side of the restaurant, I'm talking fine dining, even not fine dining. The guest side of the restaurant's about kind of hospitality, right? Trying to make you feel good when you come in. And you really see how we feel about people when you go to the back of house.
+
+[11:54] Oh, how we treat ourselves. For sure. It's like we put up with stuff no human should put up with in the back of house. You know what I mean? It's the it's revolting.
+
+[12:04] No, I mean, especially when you think about the care and investment that comes into these spaces and just the awe that can um overwhelm you sometimes walking into these rooms, and you know, the downstairs or the back is literally like your your seventh grade locker room was was better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Squalor. Like intense heat. By the way, for no reason, right?
+
+[12:27] Terrible, terrible air circulation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Terrible lighting. Yeah. Just terrible lighting.
+
+[12:32] Low ceilings. Low ceilings. Like it's awful. It's like a cave. It's the worst.
+
+[12:37] This is why there is nothing. I was not true. I'm sure there are many, many things. You know, many, many things. But in my work experience, there's nothing worse than the standard restaurant office.
+
+[12:48] It is the saddest place on earth. And even like stepping into one, I can get no work done. It looks to me, they they look like uh um what a control tower in a prison looks like. Yeah. Like literally.
+
+[13:03] It's like sometimes with the screens and everything. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Like kill that person in the back. It's a weird mentality.
+
+[13:12] It's uh yeah, it puts so little effort. But I think that dictates, I think that reflects a lot of issues that are persistent in hospitality. Yeah, I mean, when Nastasi and I worked at the French Culinary Institute, we literally worked in a trash closet, like quite literally in a trash closet. And that was still somehow I think better because I could open the door and there was light. I could open the door and see a room in which sun hit the room.
+
+[13:38] Whereas most restaurant offices, you have to open like three doors and go down a hallway to see like even like the tiniest shaft of any sort of like light. It's the craziest thing in the world. It is. You know what I mean? It is.
+
+[13:52] And it's like makes me sad. And you and the other thing is like, especially like on the prep side, it's usually, you know, because they're they're not even off enough. We we need to use every square inch of a restaurant. Duh. Right.
+
+[14:03] Yeah, because they charge so much, right? So if the if there is a basement, guess what? It's getting used. And even though we're not allowed to do prep down there, John, what's gonna happen? Prep.
+
+[14:13] Yeah. And so, like, some poor sorry sad sack has to be down in that basement for hours and hours. I know their whole day. Five days away. Oh, man.
+
+[14:23] It takes a special dedication to make beautiful things in a hole. You know? It really does. Yeah. But like every once in a while, like we know when you're out of it for a while, and then you go back in and you're gonna be like, oh, I forgot.
+
+[14:37] You know what I mean? Yeah. Uh it literally coming up for air has a new meaning. Yeah, yeah, it's nasty. Anyway, I just thought I'd brand up that.
+
+[14:45] I'm sure it's gonna ring. We got a lot. We have a lot of people who you know work in the in the business listen. So, you know, I don't mean to offend any of you with your back of houses. I'm sure your back of house, whoever you are, is great.
+
+[14:57] I have been to places where the back of house is great. I've been to places where it's so nice, it's also kind of oppressive in a way. Because it's like a control situation. You know what I mean? But I can see I prefer that.
+
+[15:08] Yeah. Like like nice light. I literally can't work in the dark anymore. I like for the past 10 years, I can't wait. Yeah, we're in the baseball, literally.
+
+[15:15] Well, here, no, but I mean like I can't physically see. I need like lights with me at all times and stuff like that. Any any hoo-huh. Uh I got some food stuff. You want to hear some food stuff?
+
+[15:24] Lay it on a few. Okay, first of all, uh uh sorry, what are your feelings on popcorn? Are you like most people and that you enjoy popcorn? I love popcorn. I make my own popcorn.
+
+[15:32] Oh, nice. Stas, what about you? Popcorn or not popcorn? I never asked you this question. Yeah, I like popcorn.
+
+[15:39] All right. So I have a whirly pop. I've had a whirly pop for a long time. I originally bought a whirly pop for a coffee, strangely. But I now have I then I had to buy a one for popcorn because my kids want a popcorn.
+
+[15:48] Some worthy pop. Get this. I'm not gonna call out my sister Miley, Carpenter, who you know, now runs all of her's like food and lifestyle magazines, but like started the food network magazine and is a James Beard award-winning author. I'm not gonna call Miley out. But Miley, when she makes popcorn, puts it into like, you know, like a like a like an all-clad like a like a stock pot, right?
+
+[16:11] Yeah. No stirring, no shaking. Just turns it on, gives it one shack at a shack at a shackada, and then leaves it and it pops up to the top and pops the lid off. And she's like, I told you I didn't need to shake it. I'm like, Miley, I can't go there with you.
+
+[16:23] I can't go there with you. I need to agitate that I can't go there with you. You know what I mean? I'm a Dutch oven person. Oh, shake shake.
+
+[16:31] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But I think I just like the ritual. It makes me feel like I'm doing something. Right.
+
+[16:35] Well, also with a Dutch oven, especially are you gas or your gas, right? Gas or yeah, yeah. So like uh, you know, they're until they're hot, they're relatively uneven. You need to shake that thing because it's cast iron. But I do I do try to let it, but this is the thing, like this is the discipline because a lot of times when you want popcorn, you want it right then.
+
+[16:53] You don't want to wait 20, 30 minutes for popcorn. So but I do try to pre-anticipate my popcorn cravings by heating the Dutch oven so it's fully you know, it's fully evenly heated before I add the oil. Ah, go ahead. Well, wait, but again, like you know, popcorn is a right now situation. However, I will say this New York City, we don't have the best weather really for anything, really.
+
+[17:16] But uh in the wintertime, it's dry, which is why my entire my entire skin is one big scratch mark at this point because it's dry as well. We're all like borderline some of the things. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause it's just like, because you know, at night you're not paying attention, you're like a scratch my my ankle until it's like we have blood of like, oh but my blood ain't got oil. Too much information.
+
+[17:35] I I don't use my wife gets on me constantly. I've don't use any lotions of any kind, and it shows. Anyway, uh point being uh that one benefit, I'll give this one benefit to the incredibly dry weather, is that you can pop popcorn and the next morning it's still good. Oh yeah, I stand by that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[17:56] You know what I mean? Yes. Anyway, so back to where I was. So I was in Lake Placid like a week and a half ago, and they have like some sort of, I don't know what the hell it's called, popcorn RS or whatever. It's popcorn store, right?
+
+[18:05] So they sell, you know, popcorn, mainly caramel styles butter, but then they also sell popcorn that you can pop at home. And I bought something that I actually think is fun. Most things I don't think are fun, right? But uh, and I'm not pushing them because I don't know them at all, but uh it was the uh where I wrote it down somewhere. Oh yeah.
+
+[18:21] It's the have you heard of these people? Amish, Amish country popcorn. You heard of these? No, but I'm I'm already uh excited. Yeah, so here's what you're good.
+
+[18:29] Well, here's what they sell, which is I think interesting. They sell a like so whirly pop is four ounces, right? Popcorn. That's what you're supposed to put in four ounces, roughly, uh, which is 120, 120 grams-ish, right? So they sell like a uh a sampler pack of ten different kinds.
+
+[18:45] And I'm like, I'm in. I've only popped half of them, but like right now, the winner, uh, because my sis my other sister-in-law, uh Ridge, she loves tiny things. I mean, everyone loves tiny things, right? Everyone likes tiny things a little bit, right? No?
+
+[18:57] They have this tiny popcorn called, I'm gonna get this right, Lady Finger Holless Popcorn that is tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny. Like they're tiny kernels? It's like it's like you took popcorn and miniaturized it. They also, in this sampler pack, which is reasonably priced, in the sampler pack, they give you a sample of like mushroom, you like mushroom popcorn. Yeah, like there's mushroom popcorn, which are the balls, which are good for caramel popcorn.
+
+[19:19] Okay. I forget what the standard one that we have is called. And then they have a bunch of different hulless kinds, a bunch of different kinds with different color on the outside, which of course you don't get in the kernel, but they say the flavors are different. So I'm I'm grooving, kind of going through all like every, you know, other night, I'm popping a different popcorn and it's kind of fun. But I pop with, I don't pop with regular oil on public butter, I pop with the butter flavored coconut oil, movie theater style.
+
+[19:41] Okay. Yeah. Interesting. And you use a little under half of the weight of the popcorn in that, in that I use uh what a golden barrel because it was the cheapest one. And uh so I put that in and I add everyone's favorite popcorn salt, flavor call.
+
+[19:55] Flavor call. Flavor call. And like most of our listeners don't need, you know, they know flavor call. It's the one that comes in a milk carton, but it's like it's like diacetyl, yellow, and and and salt, like fine salt. Yeah.
+
+[20:07] But you add flavor call to the popcorn when you're popping it. Don't add it afterwards. That is a nightmare. That is a situation where it that's gonna be too salty because it's so fine, it's gonna stick in some places and not in others. So you add the flavor call with it.
+
+[20:19] But did you know, John? Did you know that the and I can't read it because it's in some crazy ass colo crazy color rather, gold metal who makes flavor call. They make this stuff called glaze pop. Any of you ever heard of glaze pop? No.
+
+[20:30] No. Or popping glaze is the neutral one. Pop in glaze, get this. It is a mixture of sugar and lecithin that you can add directly to the popper before you pop it, and the popcorn comes out sugared and so it's like is it kettle adjacent? Yes.
+
+[20:49] Okay. And they make it with flavors, they make a caramel flavor, but they make the neutral one. I recommend going with the popping glaze, and you add the same amount as you add oil, so about half of it. They say not to add any salt, but of course I also add a little salt. Because please.
+
+[21:01] You know what I mean? I was trying to make kettle corn in my Dutch oven, which, you know. Did scorch a little bit? Uh it wasn't, it wasn't no, it wasn't too bad. But it just wasn't it wasn't that flavor.
+
+[21:10] You know, it wasn't close enough. Here's something I will say also. I think people don't like you know how when you dig everyone like for some reason, like everyone like thinks about rice, right? Who thinks about rice? They think about it.
+
+[21:14] They're like, ooh, you need to open it and you need to let some of the steam come off. You need to fluff it up and like let it do its thing for a minute. Yes. Let it settle. Popcorn the same way.
+
+[21:28] When it pops, you gotta let some of that steam out. If you don't let the steam out, it's gonna get, you know. So you're a wait till it's done to release the steam as opposed to allowing the steam to release while it's popping. Sometimes I'll do it, but then it jumps out of the jump jumps out at me. I don't want it to jump at it.
+
+[21:41] But only if you do like a little portion. A little bit? Just a little? I don't know. But in other words, it's something to think about.
+
+[21:46] It's something you need to think about is getting that steam off the popcorn so it's not soggy. You don't want that. Yeah. No one wants that. You want Chris.
+
+[21:53] Although there is a part of me who from childhood doesn't mind a little bit soggy if that sogginess is butter. But yeah, yes. Anyway. And the other the other thing I will say is is that while I was in Lake Placid, for some reason, did you grow up with TV dinners? No.
+
+[22:08] But you've heard of them? Wow, absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. So like I usually would get them not at my house, but like at my grandparents' house, because like people my age, like um 50 change, right?
+
+[22:18] Like our grandparents' generation, at least like the people in our family, right? It's like grandparents, they had the his and hers recliners. And then next to the his and hers recliners, which by the way, there was one and then the other. They did not switch it, and you were not allowed to use that chair. And then right next to that was the four the the four pack in a thing of TV dinner trays that you could and they had like floral patterns on them, and then you could set those up next to the recliner, and that's where the TV dinner was served.
+
+[22:46] And this is a real thing. Joe, you you're you know, yeah, John. All right, so it's like the TV dinner of note, right? Was Swanson's hungry man. Okay.
+
+[22:59] And seamless. Yeah. And within Swanson's Hungry Man, the one that everyone remembers the name of, because there was a chicken, terrible, right? Like, but Salisbury steak. Yes.
+
+[23:09] Also terrible. Salisbury steak. Turns out Salisbury was a guy from New York, not from Salisbury, Connecticut, from New York. Died in like 1909. Was a crazy fad diet, weirdo doctor.
+
+[23:21] And I and so I was like, I'm gonna make stuff. I'm gonna make salisbry steak. So I made Salisbury steak, and but this guy was a nut. He believed that almost all the problems we have in life are caused because we eat too many vegetables. Oh, interesting.
+
+[23:35] Yeah. He's like, human beings are not designed to eat only vegetables. We are designed to eat one-third vegetables only. So he would do stuff like he hired a bunch of dudes, dudes, all dudes, all men. He hired a bunch of dudes in like 1858 to hang with him for a month and just eat beans and coffee.
+
+[23:53] Only beans and coffee. And he was like, they got messed up. And I'm like, yeah, because they're eating only beans and coffee. Then he hired another bunch of dudes to live with him. He paid them $30 a month in case you wonder what the going way uh, you know, wage in nine in 1850.
+
+[24:06] Probably experimentation to live with him, too. But I mean, they got free beans. Anyway, he also hired another group of people, all they had oatmeal and coffee with a little bit of butter in it. And he's like, guess what? They got messed up.
+
+[24:19] Yeah, like humans. It turns out like he didn't understand this whole variety thing. He's like, but when you like serve them only, and I will quote how exactly how he puts it because it isn't incredibly unappetizing. Eat the muscle pulp of lean beef made into cakes and broiled. That's a literal quote.
+
+[24:37] Muscle pulp of beef. Now, if you saw that on menu, John, what would happen? Leave. Yeah. Okay.
+
+[24:44] But this pulp should be as free from possible, uh, free as possible from connective tissue or glue tissue, fat, and cartilage. The he even gives a brand of beaten meat chopper. You should get it's the American chopper, FYI. Uh answered, this was written in 1918, this book. Uh answers very well for separating the connective tissue, thus being driven, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
+
+[25:01] But here he gives an actual recipe. Previous to the chopping, blah, blah, blah. You know, he doesn't want fat because he's a freaking weirdo. You know what I mean? Uh, doesn't really want it to taste uh very good.
+
+[25:10] Uh he also wants you to use very old cows, which is interesting. So it was probably a flavorful meat. He wants your cows to be four to six years old. And by the way, cow better than lamb. Cow, then lamb, then chicken, turkey last, in the ones he checked.
+
+[25:23] Uh the uh pulp should not be pressed uh together too firmly or it will taste livery. I don't think that's true. Do you think that's true? I don't think that's true. I think I don't think anything that this person thinks.
+
+[25:34] Yeah. But, and here's what's interesting. He wants you to broil it, and then when cooked, put it on a hot plate and season it with butter, pepper, salt, and Worcestershire sauce. So today, to this day, so unlike graham crackers, which have all this sugar and everything in it, which you know, Sylvester Graham would have been like, no, right. Uh, he actually put Worcestershire sauce in it, and Worcestershire sauce is in Salisbury steak to this day, and is one of the things that makes it different from meatloaf.
+
+[25:59] He wouldn't necessarily although he even says I think that you can serve it with a gravy. Uh yeah, and you know, of course, I had to read it. There's also, of course, like a lot of uh a lot of good old fashioned otherism and racism in it. For instance, he uh he's like um during the colonial era colonial era era of uh of uh Britain and India, he's like, Yeah, the Indian soldiers are vegetarians, so they're just not as fast. So, you know, you have to give them a head start when they're walking out, like, yeah, I'm sure that's it.
+
+[26:25] I'm sure it's a vegetarianism, you know, Dr. Dr. Salisbury. I'm sure that that's what it is. It's not that you've never met one of these people in your life, you don't know what the hell's going on.
+
+[26:33] Does this person fit at all? Like uh I don't know. Like he hesitate to ask more questions. So he then did a study during uh the Civil War of uh human soldiers living on biscuits. So he I don't know whether he personally was healthy, but there were people who then picked up his crap and wrote, like, I was cured by a Salisbury diet, blah, blah, blah.
+
+[26:54] Especially in like England, it's really weird. You wanna hear one more weird thing about Salisbury? Why not? Okay, okay. So he literally he realized at a certain point that maybe, even in the 1860s at this point, he realized maybe I I shouldn't study people until they're messed up with like this one food diet.
+
+[27:14] So he bought himself a thousand pigs, and the entire back half of the book is how all the pigs get like, you know, and then he autopsies them. He's like, their guts are messed up when I fed them only, and then like pick your only thing that he fed them. Because he's like, you know, pigs are the close, he's right about this, I guess. He's like, pigs are very close to people in terms of how their bowels work. I'm like, okay.
+
+[27:34] All I can say is this has just all the makings of most of what is awful about uh, you know, American diet culture and so many other things. Yeah, well, I mean, one of my whole things, and like even with the museum, food and drink, like one of my whole things is that we think we're we think current people, we think we are smart. We are no smarter than anyone in the past. And the people in the future, unless they're augmented with artificial intelligence ships, aren't going to be smarter than we are now. So when you read someone in the past, you're like, everything they believed is crazy, right?
+
+[28:09] But I'm like, everything I believe, probably in 30 years, 40 years, 100 years, people are gonna think I'm crazy. We never look, we never look at ourselves with the same critical eye, we look at other people. So from the past. So I love reading things from the past that are patently absurd, but that have this veneer of, you know, we know the truth. We know the science.
+
+[28:32] I really disagree with you on that. Well, you think people are smarter? I think that wisdom from indigenous cultures has always stood the test of time. And most of what you're referencing is the result of ideology that comes from domination and capitalism. That's what I would say.
+
+[28:51] Well, I mean, I don't know. I think if you read Braiding Sweetgrass, that wisdom stands. If you read South. I started, I've not finished it, yeah. Because it's so deep and it's it's so multi-layered and it and it challenges so many core ideas that we are brought up believing are as true as air.
+
+[29:10] So I I think that you know, that guy's trying to make a a living. I think there's danger in assuming that any group of people is pure. Or good. I wouldn't say I didn't say those things. No, no, but I mean, or they have a wisdom that we don't have.
+
+[29:26] In other words, I'm sure they have, I'm sure every group of people has a wisdom that we lack. And I'm sure we have something that they lack. I don't think any of us is perfect. You know what I mean? But I'm not talking about perfection.
+
+[29:38] I'm talking about people who thrived in living in um in deep community and caretaking of the earth, stewards of land, not not titans of industry, right? Their goals are completely different. So when you go to Mexico City and you go to the Anthropological Museum, or if you go to uh, you know, um Pueblo in in New Mexico near Santa Fe, you know, you're you're going to have a completely different idea of technology and what community and social caretaking looks like compared to somebody who is literally just pulling things out of nowhere and then being supported and celebrated for that because he lived in a society that was designed to oppress people. That is the culture from which he's coming from. Talking about, you know, yeah, no, yeah, uh I yeah, no, I agree.
+
+[30:37] But I'm just saying that I think everybody plays to the society that they have. Always. Yeah. Throughout time. I I just think you're being a little too generous to some folks.
+
+[30:49] Oh, you mean, oh, I'm not saying there aren't people who are evil. I'm not necessarily saying that guy is evil. No, no, right. He's mistaken, clearly. Yeah, but you're saying that no matter what period of time you look at, those people were doing the best they could.
+
+[31:03] And I'm saying I think there are plenty of people that he could have spoken to, or plenty of cultures that could have been observed that had uh a very clear understanding that where he was going was the wrong direction. Like it didn't take a thousand pigs to figure that out. Right. But a lot of people could have told him that. But like what's interesting, and I don't think it's a function just of capitalism, because it happens in happen many times in pre-industrial societies.
+
+[31:27] I mean, even within it happens all the time that crazy ideas take root and spread like wildfire, and every generation, somebody is like, I'm gonna come up with the current idea. Everyone else has been wrong, but I'm gonna be right. Usually in pursuit of overpowering someone else. That to me is the common thread. I was trying to think, like, how many places on earth haven't been taken violently?
+
+[31:53] I very few. Iceland. Like the whole world is a history of violence, and it's a question of how you come to terms with the violence that you are currently benefiting from. Not right. I mean, it's like, you know what I mean?
+
+[32:06] Like, what places haven't been taken violently? It's it's hard. But not from a place of we can't do anything about it, from a place of interrogating what the driving core beliefs are that sustain that violence, right? Yeah. Well, especially if, especially if people are still benefiting or have detriment because of it, right?
+
+[32:25] If it's if it's totally in the past and everybody's dead, then it's like okay. You know what I mean? Like the Celts. I don't know anything about the Celts. I don't even know why I brought them up.
+
+[32:33] You know what I mean? But like can't speak to Celtic culture. Yeah. Yeah. Because they can't get hard taken over.
+
+[32:40] You know what I mean? They got hard, they got, or like, you know, anyway, whatever. Uh let's get to food. We started so existentially. Yeah.
+
+[32:49] Let's get to it. Let's go. Let's get it. Well, here's what I want to ask you uh before I I I forget and don't get into it, uh, because half the show is already gone and we've been talking about uh Dr. Salisbury and whether, you know, whatever.
+
+[33:01] Anyway, it wasn't on my bingo card, but here we are. Uh so what's it like writing books with other people? How like because I've had other people before who are on who uh have written books like both for themselves and for other people like Katie Parla or like you know Joshua David Stein. And it's always interesting to me, especially when you're working, you know, as you are with people with very big personalities, right? Um they're coming to you because of your point of view, but then you have to kind of drop back a little bit.
+
+[33:41] What's it, what's it like? How do you subsume yourself into what they're what they want to portray, and then how do you get yourself into the work as well? Yeah, that's a rich question. I um so first of all, I I entered the space as a writer in food culture because I had things I wanted to say. And so I've always prioritized and felt very clear that anything with my name on it is an absolute reflection of uh what I am interested in or questions that I'm asking.
+
+[34:17] Um I've done a few of these collabs. Um some stuff has my name on it, some stuff doesn't. Um there's been projects that I've been part of that kind of disappeared, went away. So it's always a miracle to me when you know it's like TV development when something actually airs, when something actually hits the shelf, it's like, you know, you you think of all the things that didn't get to that point, right? Especially TV.
+
+[34:39] Yeah, so there's a lot more experience and exploration that happens behind the scenes than what is reflected, you know, in terms of what's available to purchase today. Um, and I am someone who is always working on my own work as well as collaborating because I believe that one of the gifts I have is not just telling my own stories, but helping other people tell theirs. And that is an editorial lens that I bring to these projects. So, you know, my early conversations with collaborators, and every project is different, is that I try to, you know, be very clear that, you know, you're not hiring a ghostwriter. You're not hiring somebody who is not visible, who's not outspoken.
+
+[35:21] I have a public-facing uh presence. I'm I'm actively doing my own thing. So if you're wanting to, if you're calling me, right? I I'm not pitching you. You you came to my inbox, you called me up, you you inquired with me, that means that you want what I'm already doing.
+
+[35:37] So you should not have an expectation that I'm going to, you know, be like the wizard of oz behind a screen. You don't have to be Daniel Day Lewis on it, they're coming to you for a specific. You don't have to, you know, become some other person. No, no. So if you if you want to work with me, that's because you want to work with me.
+
+[35:54] It's not because you want me to become something else. Um, so that doesn't mean that I necessarily agree or that I'm a staunch advocate for everything that that individual or that group is doing, but it does mean that for the purposes of that project, we have enough alignment uh whereby we can have this cross exchange, right? Because they're someone who has a story to tell, they have ideas about how they want to get there, maybe. Um they have certainly a brand that they're looking to, you know, expand. And uh they're asking me to come in and help them do that as an expert in storytelling.
+
+[36:33] So uh my approach is to first just understand like, can we vibe, right? Can can we I've made the mistake of signing on to work with people where because I saw what the potential was, I was attracted to that, and then got into it and realized, oh, like this person has they have no ideas, they have no interest, they have nothing to say. Seriously, like just the page is blank. Like and you don't want to fill it all in if it's supposed to be a collaboration. Yeah.
+
+[37:05] I mean, I've gotten in trouble on projects in the past because I'm like, where's the concept? Like, where's the meat? And I've also sometimes given too much of myself, you know, based on what the actual deliverables were, because I wanted so badly to have these greater narratives spoken. I mean, we're talking about things that the, you know, the books I've worked on, I know from my personal conversations with readers and the feedback that I've gotten directly and indirectly, that these are life-changing projects. And they are adding to, you know, I feel like my responsibility as someone who makes books is to add to the conversation.
+
+[37:43] Some of these books are sitting on the same shelf as Zora Neil Hurston, as W.E.B. Du Bois, as a wide range of storytellers and historians and holders of culture, right? So I don't treat that space, it's a physical slot that you don't have to be. Someone else can be there. So if you're there, what are you saying?
+
+[38:02] I take that very seriously. So I do, you know, have sometimes had challenges and problems with, you know, bookmaking is a very long, arduous process. You have to tell me about it. You have to invest a lot before you see a return. And, you know, frustratingly, you know, with an effort to kind of get people under contract and get things moving and you know, just put stuff out there, there's sometimes this approach that, you know, people miss some of the detailed nuances of agreeing to this work.
+
+[38:30] You're going to have to add it to whatever it is you're already doing. And a lot of these folks are already very busy. So if you are coming to this idea thinking you're gonna outsource these things to me and I'm gonna do it by myself, you know, you've got another thing coming. And this is always sometimes, you know, a shocking conversation, depending on where we are in the project. So I approach it as, you know, you are, you know, you've got this idea, you've got this story, and now I have to do like three things.
+
+[38:57] I have to project manage it, I have to act as the editor before the editor, and I also have to act as the writer, which means that I'm also in some ways becoming an advocate for that person I'm collaborating with with the publisher. So I have to trust them, you have to feel for them and trust. You have to, if you're gonna advocate for them, you have to feel something for them. I have to feel something for what this what this project is trying to do. I also need their trust.
+
+[39:20] Um, and that is hard to establish if you have, say, already sold a book and you're already under deadline and now you gotta scramble to find a co-writer. Like you're trying to truncate a lot of emotional work in a very short period of time. Because then it's too late, you said you're gonna do it, you have to do it. Or they do. Like if they're bringing me on after the fact, I try not to do projects like that anymore where you know, we're gonna spend some time.
+
+[39:42] It's like dating, you know, like because what what used to happen is like you'd have a coffee, you'd have a meeting, and then it's like, let's get married. Yeah, sure, let's be in business together for the next three years. Like it's insane, you know. So, of course, a lot of these collaborations fall apart. So I feel like it is an honor to be someone who can help convey this story to the world.
+
+[40:03] I also take seriously acknowledging my credit and contribution um to these projects because they are absolutely reflective of my um my arsenal of skills. So uh going on that, because I think it's also kind of like from the writing side, but also especially we, you know, we get a lot of listeners who are culinary and beverage consultants, right? And I think it's not the same, it's not the same, but there's a similar situation where at the outset, there's a person with money, whether it's their own or a publisher's or whatever, but they have money and they're hiring you to do something, and there's this weird vacant period at the beginning where you're like, I don't really know if they understand what the deliverables are. I don't really know if they understand what I'm gonna put into this, and I don't have the ability to do a bad job and still look at myself in the mirror and go to sleep at night. This I feel a lot of people captured it.
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+[41:03] Yeah. So, like, you know, uh, without obviously naming names, it's like it's gotta be hard to like it's really kind of like I don't think soul crushing is a weird way to put it, but you feel I feel like a literal pressure sometimes with trying to figure out whether you want to take on these projects. It sounds like you have the same sort of thing. Yeah, and it's taken years. I mean, one of the reasons, so now I'm like really good at it, but I had, you know, I had some very tough learnings, you know.
+
+[41:26] Really, it's hard to it's hard to gauge timing, it's hard to schedule, you know, you don't know how long it's gonna take for something to gel and come together, especially if you're dealing with folks who have very sporadic availability or they have come to the project because they're agents or their editors have kind of sold them this idea that the writer's gonna do everything, which happens a lot. Um, so you know, um it can it can be challenging to figure out like, well, these projects are in meeting stages, these projects are in negotiation stages, these projects are in proposal development, these projects are in actively under contract. Now this is going off to production, it's not my problem for a while. Okay, now the book the book's coming out. Now I have to market it.
+
+[42:08] Every time I'm marketing a book, someone I'm working with behind the scenes thinks I'm ignoring their project. Like it's a it's a crazy thing. And then, you know, you're not, you're not, you know, these payments are also, you know, getting into the nitty-gritty, but like these payments are assigned by what you deliver, not by how you work. So you know, shout out to the people who have full-time jobs, you know, like you get paid every week or two weeks, regardless of whether you turn something in. I get paid on delivery, but that only means that someone has to accept it and review it.
+
+[42:36] So I have a project right now that I turned in last summer. I don't know when I'm gonna get edits back. I don't know when that check is coming, right? Right. So it's an interesting hodgepodge because you can kind of wonder, you know, you can kind of just be wondering how how do I make this tapestry so that I can give projects the time that they deserve and know that they're gonna be ebbs and flows.
+
+[42:57] And this is in addition to, like you said, you know, I work as a consultant to organizations, to brands. I I've I'm working with institutions that are in arts and music and hospitality. So there are a lot of things that I'm doing on this on the strategy side, separate but related to my work as someone who's actually sitting in front of a pad of paper or a screen and putting copy together. So I I continue to feel that it is a privilege, but I have I have struggled with that pressure. Um, and I've sometimes failed.
+
+[43:30] And it's been, it's been really, really, I mean, I'm a I'm a growth edge person, so I'm always reframing or exploring, trying to unpack like being accountable for, you know, what what terms or what can I set up? What questions can I ask? What signals can I take from the first time so that I don't have to find myself in repetitive situations that are difficult to get out of or unpleasant. The one thing I would say is that you really have to be in it for the process. Neither will they let you, even if you want to.
+
+[44:12] You know, so like all these things that a lot of times people will say, the book is beautiful. Well, I had nothing to do with that, right? Like I mean, take it. No, I take it, but it's also like, you know, yes, and and also it's also an it's an expression of the work that was done, right? All those 60,000 words.
+
+[44:28] The other one thing I wanted to note is that the books that I'm that we're talking about, the books that I do in collaboration with chefs, at least so far, the ones that are out, are um they're narrative food culture books. They are also cookbooks, but they are very different than what preceded my work, which is that, you know, mostly there were, you know, you had maybe an introduction, you had some head, you had some head notes. This is the obviously the text that precedes the recipe. Usually those were very technique focused. Um, and then you had the actual, you know, here's how you make this thing.
+
+[45:03] What my book started to do was say, we're gonna tell a story and we're gonna allow the food to exist within the umbrella of the story. That means that you're not gonna just open up to a chapter on salads, you're not just gonna open up to a chapter on soups or desserts. These recipes are going to fit in the place where this narrative is taking you. And and this was a hard thing now for some editors to really conceptualize because they're like, you know, they want to treat these books as how, you know, they are, they are references. But it was important to me, especially in dealing with food of um the black American um conversation or the diaspora more broadly, and even other cultures of books that I've you know worked on or plan to work on.
+
+[45:46] Um, these things have often been extracted from and kind of kind of delivered piecemeal to the public over time. So we need to reframe things and give context to things and put things in a in an environment where you can understand the the culture from which this recipe emerges. That to me was more important than deciding if this was gonna be one or two or two teaspoons, right? So um well, thinking in the in the in the Black Power Kitchen, the Ghetto Gastro cookbook, it's all about beginning is like, what does this even mean? What are we talking about?
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+[46:22] You know, what like the word ghetto coming, like the whole intro is like describing this, and then you go into as you say, it's like there's interviews, it's like a it's a it's a point of point of view, but I wonder what it's like for you to write something like that that is from a culinary standpoint, the point of view, and yeah, it goes, you know, all over the world in Harlem and whatever, but it's like it's the point of view of a particular culinary uh collective, culinary fashion, you know, yeah, music. But as opposed to like the you know book you did before that uh rise with Marcus Samuelson, where it's like so many people, it's about it's about just kind of like the depth and density of um people that you know he you both want to kind of celebrate and bring bring to the fore. Is that different? The experience of writing books like that? Yeah, um, in some ways, I mean, um, you know, m Marcus is a big visionary, he's a big vision person, and he he doesn't miss anything, but you know, he's one to sometimes like have this big vision and not really think too much about what is that gonna take to fulfill that, right?
+
+[47:36] Like, you go do that, right? And in some ways that felt freeing. Um, but in some ways it required me to take on a different level of leadership to that project. So when I first signed on, it was like, hey, you're just gonna write these chapter openers and you know, to do some essays, and it was kind of like a low lift. By the end of the project, it was very clear, like I had brought in a big kind of overhaul of the editorial lens and really worked closely with our editor um Mike Zervan, who's over at um Hichette.
+
+[48:05] Um, shout out to Mike, you know, about you know, re retooling this project so that it could be something that Marcus could could own in terms of his own experience and what he was an expert in, and to also allow for us to bring visibility to people. Every single person we talk about in this book, either in that book, either has or should have their own projects, right? And dozens of people. And yeah, and so like, especially the people who I wrote about, you know, there are lots of fake people he's calling out to um in in the head notes. But in terms of those those profiles, um, there's a lot of, you know, each one of those people I spent time with, I knew personally, or you know, you know, we I kind of I kind of curated that initial list.
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+[48:49] So that that was a different style versus you know, with with GG, it was more about taking um this group of very distinct individuals who have been doing a lot of things in many different ways, and you know, were pretty well known in their sphere, but had not had a cohesive brand story that they could because they were consistently coming across people who like couldn't understand what they what they were doing or what they were up to. So I took on the task of trying to articulate what that means. And that meant you know, spent spending a lot of time with them, observing them in action, getting to know them as individuals, getting to understand them as a as a business entity. Um and you know, my contribution also is you know on these projects is usually people come in with a particular view, and then I say, okay, yes, and what about you know, trying to stretch, right? Trying to push people a little further in in furtherance of their vision.
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+[49:49] So this is you know some of that editorial lens coming through. Like when you turn in something as a writer, you if you're working with an editor who is, I think worthy, you they should hopefully see what you're doing and then try to push you a bit further to get further at the truth. So I feel that that was a big contribution that I brought to that project, not just in terms of outlining it and um giving that they had the idea of Black Power Kitchen, but you know, you need a lot of meat to add to those bones. So you know, it's it's to me, I feel like I can, I'm a writer, I can write anything. When I started, I was very interested in uh if you look closely, like I'm really interested in systems.
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+[50:30] Um I'm interested in cultural discourse. Food just happened to be one channel that kept giving like I kept getting more access, and then I started to see there was a lot of depth here that wasn't necessarily visible to me when I first started out as a writer. So I had written about like the military, I'd written, you know, I'd I'd had a lot of interest. And uh I I worked for. Did I grow did you grow up military?
+
+[50:55] Are you military military? No, no, no, but I had a dear friend that joined the Marines and it really shifted a lot of things at that time for me. So I was interested in kind of understanding that more. And as a writer, I feel like I'm always trying to write about things I'm trying to understand. Um, you know, I worked for IBM for seven years.
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+[51:11] I was a marketing writer for them. You wouldn't, you wouldn't necessarily know that from my from my bio, right? So I think that sometimes it's like playing an instrument. Like there may be styles that you feel more um, you know, um like there may be more of a heartfelt connection, but if you can play, you can play. So I'm a writer, I can write anything.
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+[51:34] And I and there will be projects coming, you know, in future years that I hope will, you know, further articulate that that um you know, we don't have to we don't have to stay siloed just because we've had success in certain areas. And that it's that cross genre skill that actually contributes to having such a clear voice. You know when you're reading a book that I contributed to, you know. Well, speaking of books, you contributed to, even though like I feel like I now I'm going into standard Plugville, but I want you to I want you before I forget to plug uh the new book that's coming out in less than a month. Yeah, uh Quail Creole, um with Nina Compton.
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+[52:14] She is You know, I've never had her food. I've met her, I've never had her food. I I hope that that is something that you put on your to-do list this year. Um I met Nina, man, maybe eight years ago, seven years ago or so. Um she is, you know, obviously the award-winning New Orleans-based St.
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+[52:33] Lucian chef of Compare Le Pen and by Water American Bistro. Um, I love her food. Um, I love her. We've become dear friends over the years, and this book is a narrative cookbook that is going to take the reader through her development as a as a chef, starting in the incredibly beautiful, rich culture and country of St. Lucia.
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+[52:59] And we follow her through her time in Miami, excuse me, Jamaica first, and then Miami, and then finally New Orleans, where she's been for over a decade, which she was introduced to as a participant on Top Chef. And that's really when she kind of crystallized all these experiences that she'd had and funneled them into what became her first restaurant. So she's bedazzled with awards and always at uh festivals and special dinners and events and you know wonderful things. But you know, I think in her um in her story, you really get to see, so you know, something that I said after The Rise came out, because it was such, like you said, it was such a dense book, it was so far-reaching. Um, is and again, the culture needed that, in my opinion.
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+[53:44] Also, like the publishing industry needed that. Uh, you kind of had to prove that these stories were viable and that they that they had a rightful place and not necessarily just by someone who was Uber famous, right? Um what I wanted to see was that you were now going to have more regional and uh more like you know, individually specific narratives emerge from this broad section. I'm kind of over throwing black on something as a way to dictate or project a particular point of view, right? I mean, I think it's an it's an important identity marker, but it can mean a lot of different things.
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+[54:22] And um I'm a little bit you know fatigued of the trope of just throwing it in there to say that it means something. If you just look at book lists, you'll see like black this, black that. And it's like, okay, that's wonderful. We needed that, but also like where else can we go because there are so many cultural and regional and ethnic nuances here. So what you're really seeing is, you know, a lot of people have heard about St.
+
+[54:43] Lucia, but they couldn't find it. If you if you were to give them a map of the Caribbean, they wouldn't be able to point it out. They didn't know. I saw it on the map and they cover the book down there. Yeah.
+
+[54:53] And you wouldn't necessarily know unless you know you were from there, what makes something St. Lucian versus Jamaican, right? Um, one of the things that Nina talks about in this book is how for her, her first, her big city experience as a young cook was going to Montigo Bay. The island was big, the sounds were big, the traffic was crazy, like you know, the experience a lot of people have coming right here to where we are at Rock Center. That that was her experience in Montego Bay.
+
+[55:19] That was her big city adventure. And, you know, she's learning about things, uh, she's learning about ingredients and techniques that they're not doing where she's from in Gros Elay. So, you know, she calls to her mother and says, hey, stop giving the ackey away. We can cook it. Like, you know, like she's like, I'm learning all these things.
+
+[55:37] So I think there's uh something to be said for her articulating what her canon was, right? She did go to culinary school and she did study those things, but what you really see in this book are these moments that shaped her um understanding how diverse the Caribbean was, even as someone who is from there and connecting to the diaspora in the South United States that is also mirroring that that island culture and how that exchange has been happening for centuries. And so we do that in a really vibrant and beautiful uh way. Her sister Fiona Compton, who also goes by No York Caribbean on Instagram, did the illustrations for each chapter, and our friend uh Casimu Harris, who's a beautiful photographer in New Orleans. Um, he has some work coming to moment um soon.
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+[56:21] You know, he did the lifestyle photography. It's like it's it's a beautiful, it's a truly beautiful book. Um I it was one of the easiest and most seamless projects I've worked on. Um, and I think it just came together very naturally, and and it will be a beautiful uh collection. And it's coming out March 1st, right?
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+[56:38] April first. April first, it's already March 1st, isn't it? My mind is fried. But something you said, put a thing in my head, I have serious FOMO. Now, I don't ever go, I've the only Caribbean I've ever been to is Cartagena is not really Caribbean.
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+[56:51] You know what I'm saying? But I've never been to like Caribbean conversation. Cartagena is so different from the rest of Colombia. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I know it's like uh I hate things that are nice.
+
+[57:00] Kind of tropical paradise is not my thing. Like I burn really easy, although I do like food a lot. But I don't think I'm ever gonna have fresh Aki in my life. I've only ever had it from a can. I've never had fresh Akira.
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+[57:14] Yeah, I mean, like it's gotta be it's gotta be different when it's not in a can, right? Yeah. I think I mean any of these things, tamarind, sour sap, vanilla. How about a bay leaf? I mean, did you see that viral video where uh the subway takes where the the woman was like, bay leaves are useless, they don't taste like anything.
+
+[57:32] I heard about it because people ask me, are bay leaves useless? I'm like, no, you're useless. Well, when I said in my commented, I think like a thousand people have liked this comment. Literally, that you know, the industrialization of our food here in the United States has really convinced people that things just taste bad or don't have meaning because we are so indoctrinated with this idea that like this is how it is. It's not like this in other parts of the world.
+
+[57:57] So, you know, bay leaves are actually incredibly fragrant and they make a huge difference in anything that they're part of. And in the islands you I mean I think island living is tough living but you know I mean even if people look people love being tourists in those places and I just can't I don't know someday. Yeah we talk about that we talk about you know tourism too in this book as an expression of kind of an ongoing colonization project. You know, first it was bananas now you know you gotta stay in these you know fancy hotels that locals don't have access to but yeah yeah there's a lot of that in there. Do you have any good recent history books to read on like American style food colonialism down there?
+
+[58:39] Because I only read like the old classics on like you know on United Fruit and stuff like that. I don't know if there's any any any good recent scholarship because you know I love that kind of focused in the Caribbean Caribbean South America yeah. Hmm I have not I I can I don't have like a hist as history focused title right now but I would say that you know my friend Von Diaz has a book called Islas that is celebrating the cuisines of island cultures all over the world. And uh is that the one that uh Matt told us we should buy John I believe so yes. That she does a wonderful I mean Vaughn is a documentarian and you know she's she's done all kinds of um storytelling rooted in collecting people's stories and histories and while it is a recipe focused book it also is something that encompasses a bigger conversation of what these islands have been subjected to, particularly by large countries like ours that you know make choices that impact them every day.
+
+[59:36] And so uh there's a lot. There's a lot there, I think. Alright hold on one second. I'm gonna answer this question from Nick because it's been a couple of weeks real quickly, and then we'll do our we'll do our goodbyes. Nick wants the recipe for the tomato BS from Contra, the non-alcoholic drink.
+
+[59:44] I will give it to you. It is uh this isn't a random way, but eight milliliters or four milliliters of uh grapefruit oleo. That's grapefruit oleo sacrum that we jack uh we jack, I think the acid in it, but it's made with grapefruit and grapefruit peel. Uh saline solution, 22.5, which is three quarters of an ounce of polydextrose 5050 syrup. Get the one from Modernist Pantry, 37.5 mils of clarified tomato juice, a half a milliliter, so that's 10 drops of warmwood tincture, three grams and 200.
+
+[1:00:20] So you boil the water 200, 300, uh three grams of wormwood in that, let it steep until it's dry. We call that at the bar, Theo and I do. Uh 7.5 grams of marigold flour tincture, also 3200. Uh 15 mils of reduced cranberry cordial, which is my new magic ingredient. I'll give you that in a second, and 22.5 of rhubarb root tincture at uh three per 200.
+
+[1:00:42] And so the way you make the cranberry cordial is you take 960 grams, which is almost a 32-ounce jar of unsweetened cranberry juice, which is a great ingredient from the past, like 10 years. They didn't have that when I was growing up. Unsweetened cranberry juice. And then you boil that down until there's only 307 grams of that cranberry juice left, and then you add 197 uh grams of sugar. And when you do that, you have a magic cordial that has exactly as much lime uh acidity as lime juice, but it's all cranberry uh acid, and it's 50 bricks.
+
+[1:01:12] So you do that together, and boom, you get the magic cranberry cordial, and that's the magic ingredient in the tomato BS. Uh Osai, thanks so much for coming in. I hope that we got. I never feel like I get to everything I need to get to with guests. Hopefully you've got what hopefully you got what you wanted out of coming over here onto our channel.
+
+[1:01:28] I'm just trying to make this happen for a long time. I know. Also, um when my newsletter comes out. Yeah, so we didn't even talk about that. And uh Black Futures is your uh Instagram Black Futures, is that what it's called?
+
+[1:01:44] That's the title of a great book though. What's the what's the what's the on your uh what's what are those called? Those uh the the short the short pieces on your website. Oh you're talking about my series. Yes.
+
+[1:01:52] I have a four-part web series. Um it's it's uh Black Futures with Osai Endolyn. Yeah. Um yes. And we didn't get to talk about this because I wanted to talk about on the last one on number four, just for the next time you come back, about prof about the professionalization of hospitality and how we're not all we're not all the same.
+
+[1:02:11] Not all hospitality folk are the same folk. And so they think. Well, but there's there's the view from inside and the view from outside, and they're both different. Anyway, uh we'll talk about it, I guess, next time. That's too much to unpack in the zero seconds we have left.
+
+[1:02:23] Thank you. Anyway, thank you for coming on.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you alive from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City, Newsstand Studios, joined as usual with John over here. How are you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yeah.
+
+[0:21] Got uh Joe Hazen rocking the panels. Hey, how is everyone doing? Full house. Good, good, good. Upper left, Quinn, how you doing?
+
+[0:30] I'm doing. Yeah, well, better than not doing. Better than not doing. Uh down there in Los Angeles, I think we have Nastasi the Hammer Lopez. How you doing?
+
+[0:41] I'm good. Yeah, by the way, I don't think we're gonna tell the exact numbers, but Nastasia just got today how much more the tariffs are gonna be on the spinzels when they come in. And spoiler alert, it's a lot. F small business. Am I right, Stas?
+
+[0:58] Well, we We don't make much, so we're only gonna make like $10 profit on each of them, basically. You know, listen, listen, listen. Before, we were losing $10 on each unit, so. Anyway, uh point being um, nothing that this country hates more than a small business. Am I right?
+
+[1:18] Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, you have a small business.
+
+[1:22] How's healthcare? All right, anyway, okay. Uh and uh we got Jackie Molecules, also in Los Angeles. How you doing? Yep, doing good.
+
+[1:33] Sound sound like you're uh owning it there, Jack. I love it. And we have two special guests today, but unfortunately, because Newsstand Studios is quite literally in a whole like a not a hole, more of a scoop in the wall, right? Joe, not a hole in the wall, because that would imply that it was like this is wider than it is deep. Not really a hole.
+
+[1:53] It's right long. It's 16 by six, sixteen by seven. Yeah. No long and narrow, and yeah, majority of the space is filled with wood uh uh cabinets. Yeah.
+
+[2:03] The only place narrower than newsstand studios that I go to regularly is Bar Contra. Behind the bar. Not in front, both sides of the bar. Like, you know, anyway. Someone someone shows up, wants to go to a table, we tell everyone with the bar, get out.
+
+[2:17] No kidding, it's not quite that bad, but it's damn close. Uh so we have two special guests, one of which is not in Newstand Studios, and Stas, you're gonna be mad about this. The boondoggler herself is here, but not in the studio, so she can hear what we're saying, but we can't really bust wise on her because she's outside. I think that was strategic. Oh you were like, you think she like texted everyone ahead of time and didn't have me on the chain and was like, hey, make sure I'm not in the studio so that Dave doesn't just like start going off.
+
+[2:51] Is that you think it's happened? I imagine, yeah. Well, we can easily solve it by giving her the phone number to call into. She is literally. All right, well, we'll see.
+
+[3:03] We'll see what happens. We'll see what happens. And of course, uh the person that Rebecca brought to the show today, our special chef guest, Sean Gray! How are you doing? Formerly co now of uh Sgt Inn in Sgt.
+
+[3:18] You only have to remember one piece of information, right? That's it. That's it. Very simple. One.
+
+[3:21] Well, you have to remember it's an inn. In. They're like, oh, uh Sergeantsville, was it Tavern? Sergeantville. No, no, inn.
+
+[3:27] All you need to remember is the town where you're going and the inn. And Rebecca, you know, being like Philly, New York, right, is like, oh, it's easy to find. It's a one-street town. So dismissive, a small town America. I know.
+
+[3:39] What's that all about? Yeah, there's another street that intersects it. See? Could be on that one. Right?
+
+[3:44] Yeah. Happens not to be, though, right? No, no. No. Now, uh Sgt is uh before we get all into it, Sgt.
+
+[3:54] Pennsylvania and New Jersey. Yeah, it's uh three to I don't know, maybe four miles from the Pennsylvania border. And how far north-south, uh like from the water gap area? Um I guess you can't be north. Yeah, pretty far south.
+
+[4:08] I mean, it's probably twenty-five miles, thirty miles. It's a nice drive. You go up there to hang out. I mean, it's nice over there. Yeah, it's awesome, man.
+
+[4:16] I mean, to to drive up the river and you know, go for a hike or go for a walk or whatever. It's it's pretty it's pretty awesome up there. Yeah. The Delaware River, by the way, for those of you who don't know, never been to this part of the country. The Delaware River cuts through the area between New Jersey literally between New Jersey and Pennsylvania.
+
+[4:32] And the Delaware water gap is so named because it's a one of those weird situations where there was a river there after the last ice age retreated, however many thousands of years ago. And after the ice left, the land was like, oh, I don't feel so much pressure anymore. So the land starts to lift up around the river, and the river cuts a hole through it. So it's like literally like instead of like a canyon that's being cut down, it's like almost like sawing through it and the land is being lifted up. And that's the Delaware water gap.
+
+[5:02] And it's beautiful area, and you can go camping and uh, you know, Dingman's Ferry, all the hole, all that garbage. So it's it's beautiful over there. You ever go to this store in New Jersey, which I've well went into, I think once, because I'm always there when it's closed, the chocolate goat. No. Yeah, it's it's neat.
+
+[5:18] Look it up. It's pretty close to you. And its whole theory is is that hey, what if a chocolate was in the shape of a goat? Okay. That's what they do.
+
+[5:27] All right. I'm into that. They got like big goats? Like big goats. Yeah.
+
+[5:30] Little goats. Okay. Like white chocolate goats. Okay. Milk chocolate goats.
+
+[5:29] Okay. If you can guess dark chocolate goats. I mean, I've seen the sheep in the shape of or butter in the sh shape of a sheep. Is there a whole store? I think it's a seasonal item.
+
+[5:44] Sheep shaped butter? Yeah. Yeah. Now let me ask you this. I've never had sheep's milk butter.
+
+[5:50] I bet it's good. Is it not enough cream to make a good butter? Yeah, I bet it would be like chalky or something. Or it's just too expensive because they make all the sheep milk into cheese. Maybe.
+
+[5:59] Maybe. I don't know. What's your favorite current butter? One of the best butters I've had that I don't think is obtainable. Oh, okay.
+
+[6:12] You can give it some unobtainium. All right. Uh and I've been kind of on a quest. Not like actively, but I've thought about going on a quest. Um the butter that comes with the pancakes at McDonald's.
+
+[6:25] Oh, well, just all you need's a face mask. Very good. Just need a face mask. Break in. Yeah.
+
+[6:31] You know, it doesn't have to be a loaded weapon. I don't think it melts well, but flavor wise, that that that's pretty pretty top tier. So you're saying they jack it with something. It has to be. I don't it's probably non-dairy.
+
+[6:42] I don't know. Um what would be my number one butter? You know, always a fan of like all that nice French stuff. Yeah. You know?
+
+[6:50] Like the barat. Yeah. I don't know how to say it. It's like an L apostrophe. I don't know what the hell I'm thinking.
+
+[6:56] Oh, okay. Okay. Who likes it? Monsieur Le Franca, Monsieur le Belgique. Um but the uh my current favorite, I think I said this in the air, I can't ever remember what I say, because it's in in one brain, out the other.
+
+[7:09] There's uh it's not even cultured, but this Beppe Occino who makes some of my favorite Italian cheeses, including testum and like a bunch of like the you know uh soft mixed milk cheeses, he does an uncultured butter that's just so good. I don't know, I don't know what he feeds these cows. I honestly don't, but his butter is so good. That's awesome. Yeah.
+
+[7:28] Here's what sucks. Uh I was introduced to it by DiPalos, one of my favorite stores, DiPalos. If you're ever in uh uh in New York City and you're like, hey, I want to go get some Italian stuff, go to DiPalos. Anyway, so DiPalos like kind of this happens a million times. DiPalos will popularize something, and then the people who make it would be like, I could sell this to someone bigger, like Italy.
+
+[7:47] So guess who has the Beppe the Beppeocino butter right now, even though they haven't shipped it to DiPalos in a while. If you guessed Italy, ding, you've guessed correctly. But uh so I don't know I'm disappointed because if there's one thing I know about Italy, I don't love Italy, by the way. I'm not against Italy. What I'm saying is they know how to charge.
+
+[8:04] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're not afraid of it. You know what I mean?
+
+[8:08] They're not afraid of charging you. Much like my partners at Contra. Not afraid of charging you. You know what I mean? But uh whereas like Louis DiPaolo, Louis Sal, Marie, the whole team over at DiPalos, are like almost actually afraid to charge you the money.
+
+[8:24] If they look at what something costs and they go, oh, then they they somehow I've seen them sell stuff like at cost just because they can't believe that it's that much money. That's cool. I like that. That's cool. Yeah, I mean, cool for us.
+
+[8:38] Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, keeps you coming back. You know, hopefully they're making money on something. I mean, yeah, they are. I mean, they've been in business for a billion dollars.
+
+[8:44] They also love to they also they also love to gossip. Oh, yeah, yeah, they do, yeah, yeah. They do. And Sal likes to tell the occasional dirty joke. Semi-dirty.
+
+[8:54] Depends on who's in the room. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. But he's got that old s when Nastasia used to live here.
+
+[8:59] You you love we would go to DePaul's all the time together. Yeah, no, I don't like that style of like you can we will serve you for 10 minutes, 15 minutes while there's a line of 30 years. Yeah, you shouldn't go. That's the thing. You wait in line an hour, and then when you get there, you get there.
+
+[9:16] They don't. I mean, like I'm okay with it. It's a lot different now. You know, since the pandemic it's changed. It's not like take a number anymore.
+
+[9:23] So you wait in a line, and typically, you know, it's now a 45 minute McGill instead of uh uh, you know, an hour and change two hour McGill. But uh I remember once I was there and this lady was like, How much more are you gonna order? I was like, Till I'm done. Till I've finished ordering the things I I have a certain list of things I'm here to buy. Yeah, and I will leave when I'm done purchasing them.
+
+[9:48] Hey, you waited in line. I waited in line. It's not like here's what I'm not doing. I'm not like because Sean, you would hate these people, right? If if you walked up, oh I don't know.
+
+[9:59] Sort of that. I'm like, no, I want the testum. Boom. Now I'm waiting for the test him to arrive. I'll then they gotta do their thing, the mushigosh, put it away.
+
+[10:05] I'm like, okay, I need some tra to tella. Boom. And I'm not like I'm not like, you know. You know, the rate at which I'm getting the things is the maximum rate at which this the crew is willing to output said things. You know what I mean?
+
+[10:19] Yeah, yeah, yeah. So You're not holding them up. No, I'm not holding them up. And plus, since I've been shopping there for like 30 years almost, right? Who who would they rather piss off?
+
+[10:28] Moron behind me who clearly doesn't know the deal or me. You know what I mean? Jerks. Well, I had one guy, the power move is this. If you ever go.
+
+[10:37] For those of you that are gonna go, here's the power move. Don't bother shopping around first. You're gonna have a long time waiting. As soon as you tell them to get something, they're gonna walk all the way around the counter, which is about a thousand miles long. They're gonna pick up uh whatever cheese they need.
+
+[10:44] They're gonna come back, they're gonna look at it. You have to be there for one second to tell them how big a slice you want. They don't even ask me anymore. They just cut it. They know what I want.
+
+[10:56] That's the time. When they've moved away, that's the time to go get the stuff off the shelf. You don't need to be worried about getting the stuff off the shelf beforehand. Except one knucklehead, I did that, and he was like, yo, you know, he thought I just walked right up to the counter. And he's like, There's a line here.
+
+[11:11] And I was like, oh. I was like, I I've been here, I've been here for an hour and a half. I was here before you showed up. And he's like, hey, you don't have to get mad about it. I'm like, hey, I didn't start this.
+
+[11:19] I didn't speak. I didn't speak to you. Like, I I didn't open my mouth. I'm here buying cheese. You said something.
+
+[11:26] You know what I mean? And I was just like, oh, you know what I mean? I hate people like that so much. You know what I mean? But that's why I need to get out of New York, man.
+
+[11:32] Yeah, dude. You have to. Because it's like it's like you can't hear my knuckles rubbing together, but this is New York. Anyway. So uh many years at Co.
+
+[11:42] Oh, we didn't even we gotta shoot the breeze first. We gotta shoot the breeze. All right. Any of you guys have anything from uh anyone last week cooking related? I do.
+
+[11:49] I went to my first nomakase experience. And it was Ever? Ever. And it was phenomenal. Oh nice.
+
+[11:54] Um really delicious. One of the best meals I've had in a couple years. You want to call out the restaurant? Sushi Rayuse. I'm probably not pronouncing it right, but I'm 394.
+
+[12:04] You make up for it with your French pronunciation. Yeah, yeah. Uh all right, so what do you like about it? I just love I don't know, the pacing of everything was great. Just trying all these great delicious fish had my first Japanese firefly squid, which were really delicious.
+
+[12:19] Um just Oh, well, talk to me about Firefly Squid. I don't think I've had one. Little tiny things. They think they were just like quickly blanch. Are they better than many octopuses who are cute but not really?
+
+[12:28] I don't know that I've had I don't I haven't had mini octopus. You've had the mini octopus, right? I like the squid. Yeah. Squid is good.
+
+[12:34] But can we agree that the mini octopus is just a visual thing and that they're not better than full-size octopus? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um but yeah, just a bunch of different cuts of fish that I hadn't had before.
+
+[12:44] I obviously can't remember the names. It's just like really gross in the moment everything, but it was uh yeah, really delicious. So the square squid were blanched, marinated at all? Rice, no rice? No rice.
+
+[12:54] Um grated ginger on top, and that was basically it. Just really simple and straightforward, and it was really, yeah. So I'm I'm guessing that these fireflies mini ones are a zero iodine situation. You're not you're not getting like the not getting that some of the bigger squid get. I thought you hate that.
+
+[13:10] Yeah. Someone brings you a big ring of squid and you're like, it's gonna taste like pea. Yep. I wish I guess you can soak the pea out of them, but then they have no flavor whatsoever. Yeah.
+
+[13:23] Right? The little ones are great, man. Yeah. Super quick, high heat. Yeah.
+
+[13:27] That's it. What are your thoughts on thinking of high heat with uh seafood animals? Like my favorite is like super high heat uh razor clams. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[13:36] 100%. Love those things. 100%. That's how we did. Yeah, always cooked razor clams like that.
+
+[13:41] Echo is like bowl, oil, right on the plancha for five seconds and then off. Yeah, yeah. You know what I hate about razors though? I hate sand so much. You know, and uh so you know what are you gonna do?
+
+[13:56] What are you gonna do? I mean, that's like all that's like all that clam business. I mean, the sand the sand, I don't know. Sand makes it so hard. Like in to really you have the only way to know it's absolutely gone is to eat it.
+
+[14:11] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. And purging razors is a pain. What about with razors? The thing about razors is when you go to buy 'em, they're for those of you that never bought razor clams, what are you doing?
+
+[14:19] Go out and buy some razor clams. Yeah. Second thing is is that at least when I buy them, they're in a bundle that they're in like a bundle with like two sets of rubber bands around them. And they put the bundle on ice and they're all sticking their foot-ish thing out of one side like a panting dog. And what you need to do is you walk up and you poke it, and if they don't go back in, then they're not going to probably last until the evening when you need to cook them, right?
+
+[14:47] So you want them to go back in a little bit, but if they if they if they die, you know, right before you're gonna cook 'em, fine. Right? I think so. Yeah. But you want them to be a little bit lively when you pick them up.
+
+[14:57] Yeah, sure, of course. Yeah. But then the question is getting the sand out and whether or not anything you do is actually effective or whether it's how they were caught and whether they were, you know, what what they do with the I don't really know. I don't really know whether anything I'm doing is effective or not. But they're the sweetest clam.
+
+[15:09] They are for me. Very good. Yeah, we'd always like peel them out and then just give them like a nice active rinse, you know, and then trim off the belly and then just sear it sear just like, you know, the clam part of it. And then do you s put it back onto the half shell or no? Uh I wouldn't, but people do.
+
+[15:28] I mean, those shells are also like it's kind of like eating out of a flu fluorescent light tube in a weird way. They'll cut the hell out of you, yeah. Yeah, like um So yeah, I'm a I'm a fan of the shellfish without shell. Yeah. All right.
+
+[15:42] Okay. So and Stas, I'd like you to weigh in on this too. What about when you get a seafood pasta and it's just a giant pile of freaking shells in the pasta? Stas first, what do you think? Not great.
+
+[15:55] Right? It's not great. It's somehow it's the sign it's the symbol of I bought fresh shellfish. Instead of trusting the person to have bought fresh shellfish and not have those stinking shells. I mean, look, there is a certain thing about a broth occasionally picking up a clamshell and go and sucking out of the shell, but most of the time they're just in my freaking way.
+
+[16:15] I agree. I agree with you, Styles. What do you think, Sean? Oh, 100%. Yeah, it's like you can't you can't really put your back into it.
+
+[16:23] You know, now that there's shells in the way, you gotta kind of like watch your teeth. You know, like I like to, you know, to really knuckle down with a bowl, you know, and if there's all of this inedible material, it's like it's kind of hard. Yeah, it's Kobayashi unfriendly. Yeah, it'd be like whole cinnamon sticks in a salad. Yeah.
+
+[16:41] If you get linguinian clams though, like the move is just like get all the clams out of the shells and then get to work on the dish. You know, then eat. Yeah, but like front load the work. Um okay. I appreciate, yeah, right.
+
+[16:52] But you know, you know who could have done that work? The folks in the kitchen. Yeah, like I don't I don't know where I don't work here. Hey, how about this? How about this?
+
+[17:00] If it and I think it is, if it's a matter of trust, as Billy Joel would say, right? Then why don't you just give me a bowl full of shells? Be like here, here you go. And then and then as soon as like you're done, you dump the bowl in the trash in front of them so they know that you're not reusing the shells. You know what I mean?
+
+[17:18] If really what it is is they don't trust you to use I mean, first of all, people, I understand this that there are plenty of people who don't eat a lot of like, you know, shellfish, these kinds of things. And maybe they wouldn't know if you gave them a canned or a frozen shelled version. But I mean, like, there's just establish this trust with your with your with your with your folks. You know what I mean? I don't know.
+
+[17:42] There's gonna be you know who is the opposite of all of us is my stepfather Gerard. My stepfather Gerard, if you could throw a couple of extra shells in for him to suck on and some chicken bones, you're like, hey Gerard, there's not, it's not even a chicken dish. He's like, I don't care. Just throw some chicken bones into it. So he's the opposite.
+
+[17:56] For everyone, like all of us, there's one fifth. There's one for every five of us, there's one Girard. You know what I mean? Yeah. Uh all right, Jack, what do you got this week?
+
+[18:07] Anything? Um, I had a great meal at this place called Horses that in LA had some crazy controversy. Uh wait, the horses what? So Horses is the name of the restaurant. Um it was a good restaurant.
+
+[18:21] Anyway, the the reason I bring it up is sort of related. It's uh it's like a hospitality pet peeve. Uh I I oftentimes like I'll sit at the bar and eat, and I am definitely a dealer's choice kind of guy. I like talking to the bartender and being like, I don't know, man, what's the best stuff here? Like, yes.
+
+[18:34] And uh I I you know, I do that. He you know, picks a great selection of dishes, and uh he's like, I just have to say thank you. And I'm like, for what? And he goes, You don't know how many times people come to the bar and they're like, What do you like? I'd love to do dealer's choice.
+
+[18:48] And then I tell them and they go, Well, I think I'll have the burger. Yeah, yeah. All right. You know, it's is it like yeah. It's really weird because like some bartenders get bent when you ask them, and some love it.
+
+[19:05] I think it really depends on where it's coming from from your perspective as a di where they see the question coming from. If the question is, which is how you would always say it, I coming here to to like experience this restaurant. I am up for anything. Like, what's the best experience of this restaurant? What are you excited about right now?
+
+[19:24] Anyone worth a spit should be like, I got you. You know what I mean? And then it's a question of whether you take their advice or not. You know what I mean? Whereas, you know, whatever.
+
+[19:33] I think there's also there's trust the other way. A lot of times, the server, the bartender, is not gonna trust a guest either. Right. So, like, you know, they're like, oh, this person's a chode, which is I believe a family friendly word. I believe we're okay with it.
+
+[19:47] We'll we'll find out. Uh so I'm gonna, you know, yeah, a bunch of toads made the children that live there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So gross. So gross.
+
+[19:57] Uh so like, you know, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna give these uh this this moron the most basic, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Or what everyone's afraid of, I'm just gonna jack them with the most expensive thing on the menu because looks like a finance bro. But I don't think that's how the majority of servers trust. Yeah. Trust.
+
+[20:13] Trust, man. Yeah. Uh what about you, Quinny Quinn? What do you got? I got a lot of things because I wasn't uh here last week.
+
+[20:24] So I had a bit of an interesting week. But last Monday, my local truffle connect is like, hey, I've got a bunch of truffles you've been waiting for. I'm like, eh, screw it. Um, so we got those last Wednesday, and we've been cooking with them all week, made some pretty good dishes. Well, hold up.
+
+[20:53] Before we go any further, before we go further, when you say local truffle connect, do you mean a person who is local to you but gets truffles from Europe? Or do you mean someone who's sourcing like West Coast temperate rainforest style truffles? So this is Yeah, this is on the on the mainland. So not like hyper local, but pretty close. And it is both the black uh Pacific Northwest type that's associated with like Oregon, and then there's also cultivated Italian white truffles.
+
+[21:34] Now, how are the cultivated uh Italian white truffles? Really good. I mean, I think you know, because they're way fresher than like any imported truffle would probably be. Well, I don't know about any. It's all a matter of money, Quinn.
+
+[21:50] Well, you put the thing on a plane. Yeah, okay. Fair. Uh now, but here's the thing like I'd be uh this is like the what I'm hearing from you definitely worth buying, right? So that's the first thing.
+
+[22:04] Is it worth buying at all? What about the what about the Oregon black? Sometimes with uh I I've did a little bit of work with the Oregon ones uh when I went out when uh Judy and Wu uh brought brought us out there to do, and I think we even had them on the radio show years ago, back when I was gonna train my dog to be a truffle dog, which by the way, he was good at. Really? Oh, yeah, so good.
+
+[22:23] You know how you train them? He I have a book I can email to the Patreon. Uh I somewhere I gotta find it. But I have a book on how to train your dog to do truffles because then his name's out of my head, but the the truffle expert from Oregon who we were going out to visit, he's like, There's truffles everywhere. It's just a question of whether they taste good, but they're everywhere, and you can train dogs to to to get 'em.
+
+[22:42] And because remember these this this whole they're uh they're not Basidiomyces, they're uh Ascomyces or and then they live underground and they make that stink so that they can get found and then spread around, right? So what you do is is you get I mean, if you can get high grade stuff or real, it's even better, but you just buy BS truffle oil and you like condition the dog to like he's like boop, and then you put it down, you choose a command for searching, and then when they go to it, because the smell is intense, you give them a treat. And then you go further and you go further and you're further. So I got to the point where I could go into a two-acre field, take a Q-tip with a little bit of truffle oil on it, put the Q-tip anywhere in the field, bring the dog back to the field, tell him to go, and he would go right to it. No way.
+
+[23:29] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, we I don't know what's under the ground there. So I can't train to what it was Connecticut. I I couldn't train to what was there in Connecticut. But you could anyone who's listening who knows that there are some sort of truffloid, it's not complicated.
+
+[23:45] As long as your dog has a good nose, it's not complicated to train a dog to look for truffles. Crazy. So anyway, so what I'm hearing from you is that it's worthwhile, which I like, Quinn. But uh what I've always wanted to do, and I've never done it is like, so um I've said this in the air a million times, but I'll say it again because you know, we've been on the show a million years, so I can say it again. So I used to get fresh uh sea urchin out of the water in Maine, right?
+
+[24:09] And it was a real rocky area, and so they were real good. You know what I mean? As long as they weren't literally feeding on the body of a dead seal, which I have seen. Like, we're like, oh my god, look at all those urchins. Why is it in that ship?
+
+[24:20] Oh we didn't get those, right? But like, you know, if you're getting them, you know, you know, below, you know, they're out always obviously below high tide, but you go down on the rocks, you get them, straight out of the water, you know, take a pair of scissors, clack, clack, clack, bat, bap, bap, spoon it, eat it, bam, delicious. Candy of the ocean, right? Now, the ones that I get from California are delicious, right? But I'm like, the main ones are just as good.
+
+[24:45] But I'm like, how do I know? How the hell do I know? Because to Quinn's point, the ones from California have been dredged up, handled by 20 people, put on an airplane, sent over, given to the supplier, and then I get it. You know what I mean? Or even like more, like actually taken out of the shell and like put on those trays and like overwrapped and all that and sent to me.
+
+[25:07] So if those ones are that good after all of that, you know, hate to say it, abuse, and I've never really no one does anyone go buy East Coast uni if they ha if they could get the West Coast one. So if I I've always wanted to just rip two out of the water, fly into the middle of the country, meet halfway, and do it, like do a an same time test. You know what I mean? To see who's whose eggs reign supreme, whose gonads. They're not really who's whose gonad sacks rain supreme.
+
+[25:35] I like the Pepsi Challenge, it's good. Yeah, yeah, but I can't do it. And so we would want to do the same thing with Quinn, right? Is take like this uh, you know, Canadian uh cultivated white Italian truffle, and then like get up, get a cruise ship in the middle of the Atlantic, boop boop boop, get them, fly helicopter onto we it'd be happy, Nathan Mirvolt yacht. Like, like helicopter onto it, you know, I sift through the patent trolling and then taste them right there.
+
+[26:02] That's the midway point. But anyway, I don't know. Good point. So uh, but you so you like the uh the white a lot better than the uh Oregon black. Oregon blacks sometimes they lose a lot as soon as you heat them, right?
+
+[26:14] So they they have a really good aroma, but the aroma changes a lot with like so, for instance, if if you uncap them, like a lot of the really interesting aromas kind of fly away, and so, like, even just shaved, if they're not contained, you you almost want to do like Miso soup bowl situation where like you bring it to someone and like lift it and let them smell it because like some of that stuff's so fugitive. But how did you find it? Yeah, I mean, I thought it was I I did I actually found yeah, the black truffle a little milder. And again, a lot of the time we were doing like a little a little combo of each. And I thought the combo was was very good as well.
+
+[26:53] I felt like the black was like a little more of a sort of not basic, but like an earthy mushroom y, like base note, and then the white truffle with like a little more high aromatic, you know, aroma. When you said combo, I was thinking of cheese filled combos, combos really cheeses your hunger away, which is you know, when they invented those when I was a kid, I was like, they put cheese in a pretzel? Crazy. And my grandma was like, That's not really cheese. I'm like, okay.
+
+[27:23] You know what I mean? But they're good though. I mean, they're not pretzels or cheese, really. They are cheese-filled combos. Do you like them?
+
+[27:32] Yeah, of course. I'm Team Combo. Yeah. The what is it, the pizza flavor? That one?
+
+[27:36] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not sure what makes it pizza flavor, but it's it's the dust. Oh, the pizza dust. That's that dust that they put all over it. I you know, Wiley was at my house.
+
+[27:44] What day of the week is it? He was at my house and he and he was like, I was doing grilled cheeses again because my uh nephew Orson, the like one of the only things he likes is grilled cheese. So he doesn't actually usually eat in my house when he comes over because they make him food for it, but he likes grilled cheese. So it was his birthday, so I, you know, I did grilled cheese. But I, of course, they did a million different grilled cheeses.
+
+[28:03] So I was gonna do like quote quote unquote Italian one, and Wiley's like, You didn't put Italian spice on it? I'm like, no. I thought he's like, he's like, do you got oregano? I was like, I got this fancy Indio oregano from uh Rancho Gordo. He's like, okay, fine.
+
+[28:16] I he's like, you got dried basil? Like, yeah, he's like, You got dried garlic? I'm like, No, I don't have garlic powder. Well no. And he's like, You need garlic powder.
+
+[28:24] I'm like, uh I've got granulated garlic, 'cause I had done some everything bagel. He's like, mm. So I put that in and then he's like, Do you have dried parsley? I'm like, No, I don't have dried parsley. He's like, Well then, sorry.
+
+[28:34] Yeah, you fail. No love. No love. He's very uh bop bop bop, you know? Yeah, it's good.
+
+[28:40] Yeah, I guess. I guess because he has a pizza journal. I'm sure he knows how they make pizza dust. Yeah. I always have dried oregano and dry parsley on hand.
+
+[28:48] Really? Yeah, not like here, but yeah, huge huge on it. Yeah? Yeah. Have you tried the Rancho Gordo uh India or the oregano Indio?
+
+[28:57] I've seen it on the website. It's pretty good. Yeah. I mean it's pretty cool. It's different.
+
+[29:01] Yeah. It's not the same as the have you ever tried the I don't have it. I I don't keep a lot of dried leaves around other than bay. But I'm not saying I hate on them. I just don't keep them around.
+
+[29:12] We make 'em. Like uh for me in the restaurant, like I've always almost always preferred the use of dried herb to fresh herb. Really? As insane as that might be to say. Like we would take, you know, nice herbs and then just lay 'em up in a X caliber with the the door off for a few hours so it can vent the steam.
+
+[29:33] Uhhuh. And then let them go overnight and they stay, you know, like like this green, like super super green, and then just pass it through a sieve and then use that a dried herb for everything. Hmm. And so what is it you don't like uh you don't like the biting greenness, or do you not like when they get mutilated and they're not cut accurately and you get mad and you look at it and you're like, Oh my god. Yeah, both.
+
+[29:54] Like uh uh like fresh herbs go bad. Yeah. You know, they they don't get handled well, potentially. Um, I like to use the c a combo of the two, you know, like some fresh, some dry, so you have like layers of how much do you love when the herbs come and they look like they used the back of the knife to cut them? I love it.
+
+[30:17] I love it. Yeah. Yeah, just half out of the back of the back. Yeah, it's good. Yeah you know, it's nice, like a little mulching action.
+
+[30:27] Yeah. You know. Yeah, you know. Yeah. It's like remember they used to sell those quote unquote herb choppers, which are literally just like, oh, those are funny.
+
+[30:34] But no, I meant they used to have ones that like look almost like a little like a jack in the box. And and it's got like these, it's almost like an ice crusher for herbs. They don't do squat. It's just doesn't, it's just not an effective way of doing anything other than making yourself angry. Although I I I was having an argument.
+
+[30:54] So I'm old enough, I don't know whether I don't remember when it happened, but there was a a garlic press backlash. So in the early 90s, everyone was like, yo, go buy a garlic press. Like in like 89 through like 97, everyone was like, you know what you need to go? You need to go buy a garlic press. Okay.
+
+[31:14] Yeah. Sean's making the ham motion. Yeah, but like not the not the crappy sheet metal one that bends and makes you angry. Xyless, I think, made a cast one that was like either zinc or aluminum or whatever, but it's ca I think it was zinc. Anyway, cast.
+
+[31:30] And it was like a little truck. It was like a Leno, it was like this, you know, little little thing. And you go, poof, and you s put the garlic in, and the shoe comes down and bamboo, right out, and it comes. And then all of a sudden, everyone's like, they're they're for idiots. It makes you a bad cook.
+
+[31:46] You're a bad person. And like, I was like, what? I can't use the garlic press anymore. Like, and at the time I was so young still that I was like, I don't want the way people feel about me if they see me use a garlic press. You know what I mean?
+
+[31:58] And so, like, I don't even have one anymore. But I hate chopping garlic. I like viciously hate it. And remember Ann Burrell used to go on Iron Chef with, you know, Mark Ladner and be like, you don't need anything. You can just use the knife and whackity backity brackety, and like, you know, like, look how look how fine of a m but I hate doing it.
+
+[32:14] I hate how sticky it is. I did test it, right? Wiley comes over, I'm having this conversation with him on Sunday. He's like, he's like, why don't you just use a microplane? He's like, because I'm not gonna sit here with a microplane and microplane freaking 10 cloves of garlic.
+
+[32:27] I'm just not gonna do it. You know what I mean? Why can't I have my old and I bought this weird one, speaking of rockers, which put in my head. They now make one that looks like a sieve, but it's stiffer, and you're supposed to rock it back and forth to do the same thing that my 1990s Xylus garlic Xylas garlic press did, but in a way that somehow doesn't make me feel like I'm a jerk in the kitchen. You know what I mean?
+
+[32:50] So I'm gonna go back and buy one of those things because to hell with it. I can crush my garlic any damn way I choose. And it and that's it. Sorry. But that's how I feel about it.
+
+[33:00] Does anyone else remember when you were told you shouldn't use those things? I remember my parents having one. Yeah, and then they disappeared because there was a cool kids don't use it situation. Yeah. Those cool kids are probably all dead now.
+
+[33:14] Oh, easy. Yeah. So smelling like garlic. Yeah, they're dead. I'll tell you something else.
+
+[33:19] Like, if they're not dead, they're culinarily dead. They're not influencers anymore. I bet you you could show an influencer one of these things, and they'd be like, oh my god. They take a picture of themselves with it, and that's it. Eight million views.
+
+[33:29] They're gonna come back. Xyla should pay us. Put cherry tomatoes through it after? Well, you know what the thing about is is that uh as everyone knows, the skins don't go through those things. So there's always that little s not the paper.
+
+[33:44] I don't want to hear anything from people being like, paper, you can't take the paper and I'm talking about the paper. I'm talking about there is a skin on the outside of the garlic that always ends up in the thing. All right, all right, yeah. I feel there's a whole bunch of people that can't have garlic. Sorry for you folks.
+
+[33:59] Garlic is delicious. You know who doesn't love a lot of garlic? My wife. I moderate my garlic, so I go ape crap on my onions. Cooked onions.
+
+[34:07] Nice. Ape crap. And I've said this a million times, I'll say it again. If the only reason you own the induction freak, uh whatever it's called, control freak induction, or if like one of those old temperature controlled uh I use uh like the old uh oil-filled or water-filled, like uh uh wearing, or not wearing uh I forget the name of it, but they're like these like super, they're almost like you know the accu steam griddles. They're like that for home.
+
+[34:33] They're pretty accurate at the low end. If you only own that to do onions so that you can just walk away from your onions and let them go for an hour or two, it's been worth it. Yeah. It's been worth it. Yeah, because I do my one of my grilled cheese is Gruyere.
+
+[34:48] Classic combo. Onions. Yeah. Born, born together. Yeah.
+
+[34:53] Uh all right. All right. Uh so uh Snoz, you didn't uh weigh in on any uh any food-related uh garbage from the week. You got anything? Um, I would say to John for the almakase stuff, um, there's this amazing omakase on LaGuardia north of Houston.
+
+[35:13] And it's like nine eighty-five dollars, ninety-five dollars, and it's incredible. And nobody knows about it. Amazing. Thank you, Nastasia. Looking that up right now.
+
+[35:22] You know what's nice? Nastasia being very generous now that she doesn't care if that's space gets blowed up. I'm just messing with you, that's like I don't live in New York anymore. Ruin it. That's like uh that's like uh there is a place in the I think they're still open, but there is a sushi place that like all of the you know students who didn't have any money used to go to on Thompson, Thompson or Sullivan called Tomoe.
+
+[35:51] And it was no reservation, like decent quality, cheap, and there would always be a line out the door. So anytime someone mentioned Tamoe and was gonna make the line longer, you're gonna do it. Yeah, shut up. Shut up. Yeah.
+
+[36:06] You're you're a Tamoe fan? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. See what I mean?
+
+[36:09] And so I I'm talking like this was I I went like in the 90s. You know what I mean? So it's been around like a like I think a long time, but anytime someone mentioned it, z That's cool. Yeah. I like that.
+
+[36:21] Yeah. On the other hand, I mean, they didn't need the business. They're slammed. You know what I mean? Like it is a little mean to love a place that's not slammed and then not talk about it so they don't get slammed.
+
+[36:32] Cause I don't know if you know this, the business wants to be slammed. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Uh that's best case scenario.
+
+[36:39] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's hard to maintain though when you get slammed. Anyway, all right.
+
+[36:44] So did I do anything in cooking? Oh, well, I talked about it. I did the uh who's my favorite? Who's your favorite fake broth? Uh like what do you mean?
+
+[36:55] Like in the uh refrigerated aisle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um is Pacific Foods an answer? They make a good one? I think so.
+
+[37:07] I usually go vegetable, you know. Um I usually go with vegetable broth. Yeah? Yeah. Just to keep it just to give me a little base layer, you know, if I'm cooking something at home, which usually almost never requires broth.
+
+[37:22] I've been using this better than bullion, their fake beef for like soups and like I don't like their fake beef better than their fake chicken. I also have their fake their veg. It's not fake veg, it's real veg. It would be amazing if it was fake veg. Actually meat, vegetable broth.
+
+[37:36] Just wait, it'll happen. It'll happen. Like it tastes just like vegetables. Just like vegetables. 100% beef.
+
+[37:43] All dead, dead animals. You know what I mean? That'll be that'd be amazing, wouldn't it? Anyway. All right.
+
+[37:49] So uh all right. So there's a question here. Some of these questions I think you would have something to well we'll we'll talk about this. So talk to me about Sargent's Village, your current place. So for those of you don't for the for the people who don't know, Co.
+
+[38:02] for how many millions of years were you at Co. All lot of them. Um people say 15 years. Okay. Uh and for those of the don't know, Co.
+
+[38:12] is like co is was the tasting menu portion of the uh the Momofuku Empire here. And by the way, I'm sure where you know Rebecca, the boondoggler from because you know, everyone was part of the evil empire at one point or not. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so yeah.
+
+[38:33] So Co. was so for those quick quick history. So Chang opens uh noodle bar. No one knew it was gonna be a huge success, huge success. Open Psalm.
+
+[38:43] Psalm was supposed to be a uh was supposed to be a fast casual, open Sam, Bosam burrito smash up, and then that didn't work, so he was like to hell with it. So he made a chef's menu, then that place, you know, became like the darling of like the I don't even know what you call that level of eating. I don't know. Yeah. Um new but it's like Bistro style atmosphere, Chang food.
+
+[39:10] Right? Or I don't know how to describe it. It's not like, you know, I know that they got three stars from the New York Times, but it wasn't that vibe. It was more like whatever. Anyway.
+
+[39:19] And then Co. was meant to be the Michelin Star machine tasting menu, like full on, you know, let's see what you've got. Yeah. Kind of a restaurant. Would you say it's accurate?
+
+[39:32] Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Very like um I know it wasn't meant to be the idea was that it was not going to be exclusive. You know?
+
+[39:43] Okay. Right. Uh but yeah, I mean it, you know, it's I think where it were from where it started, it was uh so fair price was a fair reservation system. Like there was no love. Like no love given to anyone.
+
+[39:56] You know, and um this is pre, you know, any booking like app type like people used to come in with, you know, like their like Netscape email printout of like their reservation confirmation and you know, hand it to whoever's working the station. Yeah, like uh okay. Well, that's why I never went. And part of the uh I just went for Friends and Family, it's the only time I ever went. So part of the uh Yeah, I mean, I think there was a a part of that whole crew though that like lerved that.
+
+[40:26] You know what I mean? It's not that they they wanted it to be fair and somehow in some bizarre way egalitarian, even at that level. But on the other hand, they were also like, no, they're not gonna do a bar. You know what I mean? You know what I mean?
+
+[40:40] Or no? Am I wrong? No, you're not wrong. Yeah. And uh so it turns out also what from while you were at Co.
+
+[40:47] Uh, my current head bartender, uh, Theo. My favorite. Yeah. And so like, I'm like, yo, what should I ask Sean about? And he's like, I don't know.
+
+[40:56] Like uh, I have a lot of things, but he might not want to talk about them, but not in a bad way. Yeah, like, I don't know. But I've been told before we get into it, like, give me a shot clock. We gotta talk about your current restaurant. But I got into a huge argument at the bar with him last night.
+
+[41:09] Okay. Because he was like, yo, Sean's cold fried chicken is delicious. I'm like, it may be. I was like, but I'm sure that Sean's hot fried chicken. This might be the best that a cold-fried chicken can be, but I'm sure that his hot fried chicken is even better than it is when it is cold.
+
+[41:31] Yeah. It's and it's been a taken a very hilarious amount of time to get to that point. And uh I had a friend come out last week that had probably had the cold fried chicken at the bar like a thousand times, you know, and and he here he he comes out to Surgeonsville and has it, you know, hot, and he's just like, I cannot believe it's been it could have been this all of those times. He was kind of like he's very upset, you know. Um I'm like, yeah, it's way easier to make, too.
+
+[42:03] I'm like, Yeah. Like way easier. All right, so you gotta tell are you allowed to tell us what the old cause like I was like, yo, Theo, how many times do you he's like, we've fried it five times. I'm like, oh my god. Yeah, it's like crazy.
+
+[42:13] So are you willing to talk about it? Right. So what's the what's the because I'm a fried chicken person. Uh so other than what like like out in the wild, what's your favorite kind of fried chicken? Wow.
+
+[42:25] Um In the Wild. You know what I always loved was the that kind of like um like chain restaurant, like flake they get, like at like a you know, like a Fridays or um Right, because they're using the same batter dip, probably. They're probably doing it and then freezing it, Cisco style, but they're all sourcing a battery. Yeah, but there's all that like kind of like shake on it, you know, where um like I love I love that effect of fried chicken, like almost like cornflake in a in a weird. Yeah, I know I know what you mean.
+
+[42:58] Because it's like got like little blebs in the in the in the dip and they go in already. I mean this the one that we're doing, it's like you know, that batter style. So it's super super thin. So like wet on wet, wet on dry? So the first fry is just dry.
+
+[43:15] Well chicken arrives. Chicken's in the building. All right, chickens in the building. First of all, how are you getting you getting it pre-broken, you're breaking it? Uh generally we'll get legs and then split them.
+
+[43:26] Because I told you okay. So I told you oh, the kind of legs with the back attached, so it's like two legs. Hopefully not. Okay, okay. So uh I had someone I was talking to because I was asking them how Willie Mays, because Willie May's Scotch House makes great chicken.
+
+[43:40] It's maybe not the style of chicken that you know everybody loves, but it is consistently good chicken. And they are wet on wet. And to me, like in other words, right out of the you know, what right out of like wet, not dry, not to into a wet batter, into the fryer. So I'm sure their fry oil lasts forever because they're not contaminating with like a lot of like sinking flour. But uh, I don't know if that's why they do it, or just the way they've always done it, but I can't figure out how because to me, whenever I've tried wet on wet systems, it's a a crapshoot about adhesion.
+
+[44:12] You know what I mean? Like either it's too thick and goopy. And they just fry it once? Yep. Or you eat it right away when it's piping hot.
+
+[44:18] Okay. Yeah. And so his theory, the guy I was talking to, because Willie Mays won't tell you. There are some people who have videotaped them online. So in fact, you can see that they're doing wet on wet.
+
+[44:29] It's just they won't tell you any of the actual information, right? But you can see that this is what's actually happening. Okay. But it's American style, not Japanese, not double fried, not blah, blah, blah. So um his theory was is that they're using the protein drip.
+
+[44:43] So they're buying the stuff pre-busted. And his theory is they're using the protein drip from the meat in the s in the cart, you know. So for those of you who don't know, chicken comes usually in that weird brown or white, sometimes cut like waxy cardboard in a bag in a thing. He says they just take it out of the bag and dump it in with the brine, and the protein drip is what's giving them the adhesion. I don't know why that sounds so scary.
+
+[45:09] It does, but I don't know if that's true or not, but that's his theory. So anyway, okay, so chicken's in the building. Let's just talk about the legs for now. So you got the legs, it's two legs are pointing in the opposite direction, or they're separate, the back's already been whopped out of them. Yeah, the back's gone.
+
+[45:21] All right. Uh I like to call those the pants, the chicken pants. Yeah. So yeah, the the chickens in, you know, it's here, get split. Um.
+
+[45:32] So I make a brine that has uh water, salt, soy. And um we used to buy this creamy koji product, which is made and sold through New York Mutual. And I have not found it anywhere outside of New York Mutual. They don't carry anymore. They don't deliver to you.
+
+[45:58] They don't del they they deliver I gotta set up the account. And like am I really gonna set up an account? They're also the ones that carry the Ashiri and the and I think the IU fish sauce, right? They have ever all the cool stuff. Yeah.
+
+[46:08] Anyway. So um so what we're doing, what I'm doing now is making m my own like creamy koji. But all of that goes in the brine. You know, so it's kind of this like I'm sure Theo can easily give you that recipe if he hasn't already. Um so that that lives overnight.
+
+[46:26] And then so it's interesting what you're saying about the wet versus dry and this kind of stuff. So we used to brine it and then would take it out, dry it, like lay it up then for another like ten hours, whatever. Right to tack up. Yeah. So I I'm out of that game now.
+
+[46:43] What now I'm kind of using like it's like a much faster system. So I think to just to see what you think of this, so I'm thinking that like because I do the tack up, right? But what I'm doing is uh uh single fry. I think as soon as you're gonna multiply fry the tack up's not as important as long as you get decent adhesion from the get. Right.
+
+[47:03] Right? Right so it was always told that that was an adhesion trick, but I think it's actually more of a crispiness trick because you're getting some of the moisture off of the top of the skin before you fry. And I was doing I do brine, by the way, how salty, would you say your brine is like ocean comparative, more or less. Way less. Okay.
+
+[47:18] So like almost like just a light a light brine. All right. Yeah. Okay. And you don't no no acid or any of that, right?
+
+[47:24] So it doesn't make the meat mushy. Uh no. No. I don't like mushing. No.
+
+[47:28] Yeah, no, no. So uh so I would do brine, uh you know, tack dry, you know, dry off on a on a rack. Uh dry, wet, dry. Okay. Dry, wet, dry, fry, which is kind of an old you know, old man's way to do it, but you can tell old man.
+
+[47:47] So uh all right. So now you stop doing it because with whatever technique you're about to tell me now, unnecessary the the the drying it down, getting the outside tacky. Yeah, so like in uh you know, so we used to fry this so many times and it was kind of like, you know, we're kind we were kind of like banking that by the time that final fry is hit, the chicken is now cooked. Right. Um like uh but so you weren't doing it for the skin, you're just like doing it the same way that like uh like in tandor, in out, in out, in out so that the outside and the inside get done at the same time?
+
+[48:21] Okay. Um so what I mean, what I'm doing now is now I'm cooking the chicken like in a bag. Um I love cooking the bag because then you don't have to freaking worry about it. Exactly. It's done.
+
+[48:31] Don't tell Theo that we do that now. Do you do you flash it hot out of the bag? I used to flash it hot, so I would cut it out of the bag hot and then let it flash so that I would get good adhesion. Oh, that's a really good idea. Yeah, because a lot of people who a lot of people who claim about adhesion problems when they do bags, a lot of people told me, yeah, I was like flash if you're if you're having adhesion problems.
+
+[48:50] But if you're not yeah, I'm not I mean that's a that's uh that's a uh it's a great idea. Yeah. Because yeah, well, then you when you take it out and and now you have like now you're like sifting through chicken stock that's like you know, trash chicken stock. Yeah. It's like purple.
+
+[49:08] It's hard to use and yeah. So is there a way to make that stuff workable? I've dude, I've tried and like I was maybe I'm sure you could put it into like a stock pot situation with like a whole lot of other water and probably fresh meat. Yeah but it's like you know, you're basically at least in the brine, it's like now you're you're trying to make a sauce that has like a lot of salt in it. Right.
+
+[49:33] Has a lot of like shit you wouldn't want or things you wouldn't want getting pulled out, you know, coming out of the animal. You know, I like I when I reduce it, it just looks like pond scum. And it's c and it's then like this weird clear kind of color. I'm like, oh that's kind of gross. I wonder whether it could be used to reinforce like the base of a different stock you were making.
+
+[49:53] Right. Like just use the jelly. Yeah, if it was gonna go right, like you know, if you were gonna do something else and so you didn't have to look at it, you know what I mean? If you were gonna do a clarification later, or if it was gonna be in a cream sauce or some crap, I don't know. But it is a perennial question, is you have this stuff, you know.
+
+[50:12] Yeah, it's it's it's a little bit. I bet you could combine it with like a bunch of salt and koji and let it like just break down. Into what? Just like sort of not a garum, but like a savory koji. I don't know, man.
+
+[50:34] Now you're now you're beyond the stuff that I do. I don't know. I don't know. Get rich. Ask Rich.
+
+[50:39] Put the question into Rich. See what he says. All right. So you have the chicken, you cook it. What's your uh do you do uh a different temp leg?
+
+[50:47] Or you only do leg. So uh w what what do you do? Like sixty-five? Uh yeah, I forget what it comes out to be, maybe sixty-eight, like a little bit hotter. Yeah.
+
+[50:55] Um for less time. Yeah, it's one hour. Yeah, okay. Yeah, okay, great. All right.
+
+[51:00] Just taking the chill off. And the bones in or the bones out? In. Okay. So at 68, let's say it's 68.
+
+[51:06] At 68, you don't have persistent pink on the bone because it's fast enough that the pink goes away. Ding ding. Because that's what people hate. Yep. With low low temp chicken, I always do boneless, so it doesn't matter to me.
+
+[51:16] Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm not going to get persistent painting. Yeah. Which sounds like a good band, but it's bad with chicken.
+
+[51:22] You know what I mean? Yeah. So that was the goal. It was like, all right, how can we how to get away from this like visual? You know, and it's one thing when you're like a restaurant in the city and people are coming in and they're like, they're like, oh, this is like quality chicken.
+
+[51:36] I'm sure it's fine, you know, but it's different. You know, it's like, okay, we need to like really ensure that this is like pretty bulletproof. Um so from cold, the first fry is just dry. And that's a mix of uh well, now it's a mix of flour and cornstarch. Okay.
+
+[51:53] So it's flour cornstarch, I'm sure of some seasoning crap, which we don't need to do. Nothing? Nothing. So just the seasonings from the brine only. Yep.
+
+[52:00] And it's not dried off, so there's it's still some moisture. Yeah. And so you get good adhesion of just its fundamental flour coat into the first fry. Yeah. Okay.
+
+[52:09] And then is the first fry like super fast flash, or is that one of the s slower, longer fries? They're all pretty quick. You know, they're all, I would say. We used to do it with like a rondo on the stove. So to hell with that.
+
+[52:26] Yeah, I know. Oh my God. Yeah. Um so the first fry is a little bit of a lower temp, you know, and it's it's quick. It's like two and a half to three minutes.
+
+[52:35] Just to like lock it in, you know, just to like set it up, get it out, get it on a rack, and just let it chill. And you're but where your fryer is, where's your fryer set? If you don't want to tell me, you don't have to tell me, where's your fryer set? What temp? Yeah.
+
+[52:48] Uh three I would say three thirty is probably. All right. So like so, like fairly low, like where you would do to traditionally fry something for a long time. Yeah. Okay.
+
+[52:58] Okay, go ahead. All right. Um so that's that. I mean, and then you know I would go through and kind of do everything on the first stage, you know, and then start and then you make that battery. You know, we kinda had a system set up where we would it would be the the batter would be broken down to the ratios of um like a beer, like a can of beer.
+
+[53:21] Yeah, yeah. That's the way to do it. You know, so it it was like you know, it's like comes in a can, you write the recipe for cans. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[53:28] So that that was that. I mean, you know, make this batter and it's super simple. It was a beer can batter. It was beer battery? There's beer, vodka, um, flour, and cornstarch.
+
+[53:38] We used to do rice flour for crunch? Back in the day. Just because I don't know, it was like, yeah, let's do like X percent rice, this percent corn, this percent that. It was like both corn and rice, like, unless you keep mixing them up, they fall. So we had a solution for that too.
+
+[53:52] So that the the, you know, so then you have like your pint that's like already, it would just tear it up. Yeah, yeah. And then you just mix the one X batch, it's enough to do the 24 pieces you have in front of you. And then on the second fry, you'd get a new mixing bowl and just do it again. That way it's you know, always the same.
+
+[54:11] Do the beer have to be cold or you don't care? Yeah. So the theory I have on and you know uh you didn't add any sort of baking powder or baking soda? Nope. Okay.
+
+[54:19] Because the theory on that I've heard from the same guy I was talking to about uh Willie Mays, is that you have to add that because if if there's not air bubbles being formed in the thicker batters, then the bubbles will form between the skin and the batter and blow them off. So if you create kind of a porosity, you can stop blow off. That's what he said. That's and that's why a lot of times they'll want to keep the batters cold so that you're not functionaling, functionalizing or whatever the non stupid word is for making the the thing start giving off gas before you want it to. Interesting.
+
+[54:54] I mean, not necessarily, because I think some people say it's a glue thing. Anyway, it doesn't matter. So uh okay, so so you do it, so it comes out, how long does it have to sit? Does it have to get cold off the first fry or is it just a couple minutes? It doesn't have to, but it helps.
+
+[55:05] You know, if it's if it's hot and then you're going into the batter hot. I definitely notice a bit of a difference. The first flour fry, when you're looking at it, it's like I don't know, it's like, is there any flour on there still? You know, but but it's like there is. And it's more quote unquote sticky.
+
+[55:26] Yeah. And then that's that first fry that's wet. Um by the way, the batter we're talking about like crepe like front. It's thin. Thinner than crepe, if nothing thinner than crepe batter.
+
+[55:37] Uh I haven't made crepes in a while. Uh what's something people would know for thickness? If there was like a uh like not heavy cream, not half and half. If there was something that was like uh like a like a 2x whole milk, that's like where we would be. Like, what is 80% whole milk if that if they make that somewhere?
+
+[55:57] Real thin. Yeah. Okay. Um and that first, you know, wet batter, everything just explodes off the piece. And you know, and again, you pull it up and you're like, man, there's only like it's like just a very little bit of batter on here.
+
+[56:13] You know, but when you get to that second one, you're like, oh, but it looks like the picture. And then the third one is like, wow, this is pretty awesome. And it's the same battery each time. Yeah. Huh.
+
+[56:14] Yeah. And how many do you do? How many do you do pre-shift and how many do you do service? What's the pickup? The pickup.
+
+[56:31] Oh, because it's cold. Ah! Yeah. But when you're when you're doing it hot, like for real. The hot one's easy.
+
+[56:36] It's it's just like, hey, drop it back in for two minutes. That's it. All right. Uh but when we did it cold, it was kind of wild because we would glaze it and uh wait. When's the glaze happen?
+
+[56:47] Well, and the cold one, you would finish the last stage of frying and then let this thing rest until it's at least room temperature or below. Me personally, everyone everyone that's worked at this restaurant has the best way to do this, of course. Yeah, Theo says he has his own way. His is very hit he's up there. Like he's got a his is better than mine.
+
+[57:12] Theo's like, uh I only have to fry it three days. Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. He's got some.
+
+[57:17] He doesn't talk like that. He sound doesn't sound like a criminal. Anyway. So uh for me, like I would glaze it when it's at that room temperature and then straight in the fridge. The the the thing that we figured out was the it doesn't matter what temperature it is, the gla I think it's the glaze has to be hotter than the chicken is.
+
+[57:40] And as long as the as long as the what you're putting on top of the thing is hotter than what's under it, when you put it in the fridge, the hotter thing is gonna evaporate first. Huh. If that makes sense. I mean, I understand what you're saying, but I have to taste the difference to see what's going on. I was not a believer, and this uh this other kid that worked with us, he's like, hey, I've been working on this a lot.
+
+[57:59] I want you to see this. It's like I think it's better. And he's telling me this process, I'm like, dude, you're crazy. And it was like, we, you know, we had the chicken on the tray. It's not glazed yet.
+
+[58:19] It's dead cold. Like it's been in the fridge now for six hours. He's got the combi oven going in the back at like Mach 3. You know, it's like six I'm like, it's 620 degrees. I'm like And he and he puts this chicken in for 30 seconds.
+
+[58:37] 30 seconds, pulls it out. The glaze is there in, you know, uh Baemarie, whatever, and it's like dip, dip, dip dip. To me, this makes sense because you're not no moisture is migrating from the chicken. Right. It's just moisture flashing off from the hot section of the where the skin is that is already low moisture, so it's flashing sh crap off the glaze.
+
+[58:56] So he's like dips in I mean, it's like two of us like, oh, oh, oh, like real quick. And this chicken is like, you know, 600 odd degrees. And then it's back in this combi for another 30 seconds. Just a flash. And I'm like, and then it's like the timer goes off, it's like get out of the way.
+
+[59:12] And it's like right back in the fridge. And you put the tray in the fridge and it's like all the steam is coming off, you know? Destroying everything else in the fridge. Five minutes later, you're like, wow, this is like this is insane. And it's super crispy, completely caramelized, dead cold.
+
+[59:32] Well, I have to say, if we've said nothing else this episode, I don't think we've ever had this in-depth. I think people some people are gonna go out and try this. Some points that we haven't given out, and it's not possible. The thinness of the batter that you use is gonna be very dependent on your ratio of flour to starch because it doesn't take that much liquid to make a very thin batter with starch or uh you know, with any form of starch versus flour. So a lot's gonna depend on that.
+
+[59:55] So you guys are gonna have to experiment and get back to us. People have to learn some stuff for themselves a little bit. Yeah, trial and error, man. Oh man, we only have two minutes. So talk to me about so what's it like cooking in a inn from the 1700s?
+
+[1:00:07] It's awesome. It's awesome. The people are great, space is great. You know, it's like you look out the window and there's tractors driving by, stuff like that. Yeah, it's not.
+
+[1:00:15] But like it like is it hard like to like have a modern kitchen in an old building, or is it just like uh it's challenging. Like, but it's kind of challenging in like that East Village kind of way, you know, where you have like this quirky little space, and it's like, well, hey, that's where that goes, and that's where that is, you know, and it's um it's been there for a long time. Yeah, all right. So listen, uh we're gonna talk more. We have a couple, we have two like a minute and a half, but the place is Sgt's Ville Inn in Sgtville on the border between you know New Jersey and and Pennsylvania, and you should go because like I I is it walk, can you walk in?
+
+[1:00:49] Do I need reservations? You can walk in. Uh you can make reservations, but it's always cool to walk. And you do have fried chicken there. We do.
+
+[1:00:55] As well as other, but you're doing like a mixture of like it's like the real Americana kind of style. It's like half-roast chicken, a burger, great steak, you know, pork. Strips. Yeah. You like strip better than uh ribeye, or it's just better serve at a restaurant?
+
+[1:01:09] Uh uh both. But I do I am a strip guy. I'm only strip strangely on like wagyu style stuff. Um like strip. I like a wagyu style strip better than a wagyu style ribeye.
+
+[1:01:21] Sure. I think the strip I like the the snap of a strip when you're eating it. Yeah. Oh my god, I have so many questions I'm gonna have to get to these uh next time. Uh but there is a question uh was the one there's one that's one that you would like here.
+
+[1:01:35] I have a 600 uh CFM hood uh installed in my kitchen and I've been a little disappointed so far. Tried serious steak tonight and noticed that the uh air quality index spiked up for 10 minutes while I was steering the steak. I was doing it with 18k uh BTU burner. Just like, yeah, I thought that installing a hood this powerful would mean that I could cook it and fry it with impunity without having to worry. I was wondering if this is reasonable.
+
+[1:01:54] No. No. No, no. No, you're looking at like Sean, back me up on this. It's like 400 CFM per foot.
+
+[1:02:01] And the average hood that people put in at home doesn't even extend over your range. Yeah. Yeah, like you know what I mean? And so, and it doesn't have makeup air. You need makeup air to get it to work right.
+
+[1:02:10] Open a door. Yeah. So, like, you know what I do? I you can build a mini hood with a low CFM that's like literally goes over a single burner. Okay.
+
+[1:02:19] And that works like a that works like a mammogram. That's how I fry at home now. I have like a little house I've built out of core plast that fits over my fryer and has a six-inch tube that goes uh maybe it's even four only right out the window. Oh, cool. With a with a with a marijuana grow with a marijuana growing inline fan.
+
+[1:02:37] Now it's not safe because it's not meant to take the heat, but you're only using it, you're not cooking, you know what I mean? You're not brazing overnight. No, no, you're not doing anything. Oh my god, do we have any more time for anything? There's one that I thought Quinn, were any of these questions good for Sean?
+
+[1:02:50] I can't remember. I see gone. Uh the Village of Nixon lifestyle. Or we could address Kirk Gibson. Uh just for a future food.
+
+[1:03:04] Well, Kirk Gibson, uh, I'll just read it. I'll read it. Um, I work for a charity that helps out food and beverage workers, Giving Kitchen.org. We offer emergency assistance if someone is facing injury slash uh illness, funeral, natural disaster um situation since they often don't have uh uh private you know ability to get that. We also offer free suicide prevention training for any FB manager in the country.
+
+[1:03:25] I would love it if one of our founders could come on the pod to talk about the industry. Sure. And we have one of them on rent. Uh we are definitely wish that people in the industry had a little more support than they do uh in kind of all ways. Um anyway, Sean, thanks so much for uh coming on.
+
+[1:03:42] Come on again. I you know I gotta go I occasionally I do drive out that way. Yeah, come on out. I would love to. Yeah, it's nice.
+
+[1:03:47] Check it out. Get the fried chicken. Okay. Do you have any cold for people to do A B? I've done it.
+
+[1:03:53] I've uh what one person was like, hey, would you can I just try it? I never had it. And I was like, yeah, it's not it's like it's not, hasn't been through the inferno, you know, tech. But um All right, so here's one thing. I'm sorry, I'm gonna leave this.
+
+[1:04:05] I know we're late. Listen, JJ Basil. JJ Basil also works for the Empire and used to work for Wiley, was my student for a while at a French Culinary Institute. JJ Basil is the person who developed that foo fuku sandwich, right? Have you guys ever had a chicken off?
+
+[1:04:21] Uh no. Uh oh, no. Oh, come on, dude. Yeah. I know, he's good.
+
+[1:04:27] Where there's life, there's hope. You guys should have a chicken off, but we need to have multiple chicken offs. You need to be like best category cold, best category sandwich. And just like go, chicken! Yeah.
+
+[1:04:36] Yeah. Okay. Best wing, best leg. We gotta do it. Best breast.
+
+[1:04:39] Yeah, yeah, gotta do it. All right. Anyway, Sean, thanks for coming on. Great. Talk to you soon, I hope.
+
+[1:04:43] Thank you. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, New Stand Studios. Join as usual with John sitting across from me. How you doing? Doing great, thanks.
+
+[0:21] Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. PJ.
+
+[0:23] Nice. Got uh Joe Hazenrocking the panels. What's up? Hey, how are you doing? Welcome to the show.
+
+[0:27] Well, thanks. Yeah. Well, welcome, welcome. Uh over there, we have only briefly, so I'll introduce him first of the people who aren't here. Jackie Molecules, who is in the middle of juggling some other radio program at the I think right now, right, Jack?
+
+[0:39] How you doing? Anyway, he's in DC. Oh, there he is. There he is. There he is.
+
+[0:42] Not cool enough. Not cool enough. Yeah, I'm here. So how's DC treating you right now? Oh, it's fine.
+
+[0:48] It is fine. Um, yeah. A ringing endorsement of the colour. I was doing uh I was doing a podcast interview at the Line Hotel last night, and all of the power in the neighborhood went down mid-interview, so that was fun. Wow.
+
+[1:01] Wow. So it's like the hotel lobby just went totally dark. Um yeah, it was it was trippy. Why? Wind.
+
+[1:11] I don't know. Some I couldn't tell you. But the whole block power went out and yeah, it was, you know, full hotel lobby of people eating and drinking, and then it just went pitch black, and then luckily the generator came back on in a few seconds. But a nice moment of panic for everybody. Now, were you on uh a laptop or did you have to reboot everything?
+
+[1:32] I was fine. I was battery powered on my recorder. But um, yeah, it was it was funny. The first thing that came into my mind was, damn, these budget cuts are really serious, huh? Jack Insley not trusting the power grid, so he has his own battery as he does his uh podcast.
+
+[1:46] Nice. All right. Well, uh, very good. Uh over there, uh holding down Los Angeles, Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. What's up?
+
+[1:55] Hi. Yeah? Hi, how are you doing? And then uh in the upper lefty left left, uh Quinn Fuse, what's up? Quinn the Fuchita, or as Siri calls him, Quinn Fusile, which is the worst thing.
+
+[2:08] I can't like anyway, but I'm not gonna get into it because we've gone through it too many times. How are you doing today? I'm doing all right. Hey, is my uh is my radio voice better now that I'm sick? Does sickness make your radio voice better?
+
+[2:24] No, we'll have to listen, we'll have to get some uh news on the uh Patreon. And today's special guest, uh I am super excited to say uh is now I've been following his work for a long time, since at least early days uh when I was at the French Culinary Institute in like the like late aughts, I guess, mid-late aughts, is Professor uh Douglas Goff, uh Professor Emeritus at uh University of Guelph, which is right outside of uh Toronto in Ontario, uh, and is I would say the foremost ice cream scientist on this little planet Earth that we have. How are you doing? I'm very good, thanks. Nice to be here.
+
+[3:04] Yeah. So uh just a little bit about so we're gonna shoot the we're gonna shoot the the breeze in a minute, but just a little bit. So uh for many years, and you you've condensed them, I guess, into ebooks, but it used to be kind of spread out over a number of web pages on the UGWelf website, were the greatest free source of information on ice cream, ice cream freezing formulations, and ice cream science that was available anywhere, which is now, I guess, compiled into the uh ice cream technology ebook and the dairy science and technology ebook on the University of Guelph website. But uh, can I say a little bit about the ice cream book? First of all, you have there's a new version of your ice cream book coming out.
+
+[3:48] Like, first of all, this is the ice cream book. Like Quinn Quinn has an ice cream book. Quinn, who you just heard introduced, has an ice a gelato book. Actually, okay. Yeah.
+
+[3:58] So, yeah, no offense, Quinn, but but uh Professor Goff has like literally like the ice cream book, first printed in 1966 by uh W.S. Arbuckle, who was known at the University of Maryland uh as Mr. Ice Cream, and was one of the early uh adopters of doing like kind of crazy flavors, like even crazier than kind of Ben and Jerry's. His book put out by the AVI uh publishing uh corporation out of Westport, put out some of the greatest uh minds in food technology and agricultural technology in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s, including for coffee freaks out there, Michael Sivitz's book on coffee, who is the progenitor of the Sivets Roaster and like the person who the reason why we air roast a lot of stuff nowadays, why a lot of people air roast uh Samuel Matz's book on snack food technology, they were just a powerhouse. And this book by R Buckle, which was just called R Buckle Ice Cream by everyone who had a copy, of course I was one, was the book on ice cream.
+
+[4:54] And then, like, you know, he died. Did you have known Professor Goff or no? Uh actually, no, I never did meet him. Yeah, yeah. You knew you knew the per you knew his second in command on the ice cream book, though, right?
+
+[5:06] Because he handed it over over to you, Marshall. Yeah, that's right. So Bob Marshall um was at uh the University of Missouri, and uh when Professor Arbuckle died, that Bob sort of took over the manuscript, if you like, and revised it to create the fifth edition. And then he asked uh Rich Hartell and I to join him as co-authors on the sixth edition. And then Rich and I became the sole authors on the seventh.
+
+[5:37] And uh yeah, very happy to announce that that within a couple of months, the eighth edition will now be available. Very exciting. In May. In May. So we're gonna get into like what's in in the new thing.
+
+[5:48] So, like this is, by the way, still so this is it's in continuous publication since 1960. There's a couple of books like this in that I own that I follow over the years and have multiple editions of. Another one is the encyclopedia of um oh, it's went out of my head. Uh anyway, the tree book by Harlow that was originally by Harlow. Anyway, so uh so continuing selling has been in continuous stuff since 1966, but as you point out in the introduction to the 2013 edition, the seventh edition, uh, it actually stems from a work even earlier than that.
+
+[6:17] So this book ha has some progenitor going back to the very beginnings of the ice cream industry. So you're kind of holding the Olympic torch of ice cream for everyone. Is that accurate to say or no? Uh well, thanks very much for for putting it that way. But I I'm certainly very proud of the fact that uh, yeah, the the uh book goes way back to the very beginnings of of the ice cream industry.
+
+[6:41] And so the very title itself, Ice Cream Eighth Edition, you know, it's got it certainly has a lot of uh of regality to it just because of the of the longstanding uh use of it there by the industry and by artesianal people and and so many others that are just interested in ice cream. Yeah, yeah. Now the original obviously came when Arbuckle wrote it kind of uh originally, it was uh, you know, the based out of Maryland, right? University of Maryland, where he taught his course, which I frankly I guess it makes sense because they were a great agricultural thing. I guess it was the one out of Beltsville, I don't know.
+
+[7:15] And then uh, you know, once you took it over, like Missouri, who knows about Missouri and ice cream. Does Missouri make good ice cream between you and me? Well, that's where um uh Professor Arbuckle uh did his studies. He was from Missouri and and he did his studies there. So when he passed away, his wife started the Arbuckle Ice Cream Research Chair in at the University of Missouri.
+
+[7:40] Huh. And so when when uh Bob Marshall had been a dairy scientist for a long time, but he sort of took over the the ice cream research chair position, and then uh was able to take on several graduate students and some did some really good um work more on the sensory side of things. But anyway, that's kind of Missouri's claim to flame uh to fame in the ice cream context is that that's where Professor Arbuckle was from. Right. Now, when you took it over in I think oh three, right, it became a much more of an Ontario situation because you were the head writer, and then the second was out of you you know, out of uh Madison, Wisconsin.
+
+[8:20] So you you know, you had a you know, it was like split between Ontario and then the cheese heads up there in in uh Madison, and now the third author on this new edition is also Madison. So are you tipping the scales back to the United States on this ice cream book, or you'd not want to get political with it here? Uh yeah. Um we didn't really consider um um very much the the the international boundary when we started talking about the book. Uh uh just give you uh just a real quick um um background on how that came to be.
+
+[8:53] Rich Hartell at the University of Wisconsin has had a really good ice cream research program for a long time. And I did here as well, and I can explain a little bit more of that as we chat. But um at one point we were at a meeting somewhere and and we just kind of said, you know, hey, did you ever consider writing a book? And and um so in the in the context of that conversation, I had said, hey, why don't we contact Bob Marshall and just see what his plans are for the ice cream title? Because we knew that he was sort of at retirement age at that time.
+
+[9:31] And so I contacted Bob and he said, sure, I'd be absolutely delighted to have you guys, you know, take this book over and run with it. And so that's that's sort of how it came to be. We said, well, you know, um let's go with the with the forerunner rather than start something on our own. Right, right, right. Well, it makes sense.
+
+[9:51] I mean, and again, it's nice to have continuity. As sad as I was to see our buckle's name not attached to anything anymore, but you do bring it in the intro, so I do appreciate that. Uh or did anyway. I haven't obviously read the new intro because I don't have a copy of the new book, maybe you know, someday. Uh all right.
+
+[10:04] So uh before I forget, uh anything uh anyone have over the past week that they've done interesting in food and or beverage, and or anything that our listeners might want to hear. Anyone? Anyone? Come on. Very quick, very quick shout out to Reveler's Hour again in DC is my favorite place to eat.
+
+[10:20] Uh what do you have? That that's it, really. Uh so this red like a beef cheek ragu with um chocolate bread crumbs is what they said it was. I didn't get to talk to Chef and ask exactly what that meant. Chocolate breakfast was kind of like that.
+
+[10:34] What does that mean? Does that mean they took a chocolate brioche and just crumbed it? Or like was it soft or hard? Maybe. They were hard, and they were kind of like bitter, you know, cacaoy.
+
+[10:43] Um it was great. It was really good. It was a funky weird dish. Bitter good or bitter bad. Remember when everyone had like powdered bitter soil things that were like kind of unsweetened chocolate-based things on the plate back now?
+
+[10:55] No, not not like that. No, it was it was better than that. It was it was earthier and it was good. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[11:01] All right. All right, nice. What about you, Staz? Anything. Yeah, actually.
+
+[11:08] Um my mom had her birthday on Sunday, and my dad was trying to make a custard filling for her cake. And he made the custard and it was a lot of work before I got there. But it was setting in the fridge and it was still liquid. And he was really sad because it wasn't like what's it called? Like it wasn't solid, but it wasn't, you know.
+
+[11:34] So he asked me if I could fix it, and I said, Yeah, I know some food science. And then my mom said, Yeah, yeah, so do I. Oh my gosh. And then I Okay. Okay, go for keep going.
+
+[11:47] I want to hear this. So I cook it. I took this like watery custard, and first I like mixed it with the with the hand blender. Because they don't have a um they don't have a stand mixer. Yeah.
+
+[12:01] Uh and it was still liquid. Oh. And then I put it on the stove and I reheated it slowly, and it slowly came together, and I fixed it. Ah right. Save the birthday.
+
+[12:18] Now let me c a couple of questions. Did you have to juge the base flavor of it, or did your dad get the flavor of it pretty much right? No, the flavor was perfect. That was the sad part is he was like, taste this. It's so good.
+
+[12:32] I can't believe I wasted, you know, nine eggs and nine dollars of worth of eggs in this thing. And so I felt sad. But I freaking fixed it. Nice. Well, that's it.
+
+[12:41] And uh, you know, I I I thought you were gonna do some like, you know, like some sort of cold set gel or something. Yeah, nice. Uh that's awesome. And let me ask you this. How long until your mom stops giving your dad crap about it?
+
+[12:58] Um she's told him just to go get vanilla pudding from the store. From where? From Ralph's? What is your what is your parents' local food establishment? Food for less.
+
+[13:13] Food for less. Where is so like you've lived in New York? Where is food for less in the C Town, King Foods, Fine Fair? It's C Town. Okay, it's C Town.
+
+[13:23] All right. All right. Yeah, man. C Town. For those of you that don't live in or have never lived in New York, C Town, not the greatest.
+
+[13:34] We'll just say, it ain't no grastidies. It ain't no food emporium. We don't have real supermarkets in New York. Right? Do we?
+
+[13:42] We do now. We have now we have, but we didn't back in the day. We had like oh my god. In the dag dag bag. Yeah, it's like a nightmare.
+
+[13:52] All right. And what about you, Quinn? Anything ice cream related that you can kick off the ice cream with? Yeah, no, this week. This week I'm all tapped out.
+
+[14:00] Although no, I did make a uh, we got some local Mayer lemons. And I made a basic um dairy gelato with like mostly uh zest for flavor. Because we've got uh a crazy farmer friend with a giant uh citrus uh greenhouse. Oh, yes, no round chronic. I was gonna say, what is what is local what is local Meyer Lemons mean to someone who lives on Vancouver Island?
+
+[14:31] You know what I mean? It's they're fresh. Uh yeah. Nothing says sustainable like growing your citrus in a greenhouse. Am I right?
+
+[14:39] I'm kidding. I'm just messing. Were they delicious or no? Do you like Meyers? Yeah, they're good.
+
+[14:44] They're really good. And we're gonna pick up another batch of like, you know, three or four other um varieties of citrus. Like what? So you want like what? Oh boy.
+
+[14:58] Uh more Meyer lemons, some Eureka lemons. Yeah, but that Eureka Eureka though tastes like a regular that's a regular that's a that is a cultivar that we have had, right? What was the other one? What was the what was the what was the page mandarins? Hmm.
+
+[15:15] I don't know if I remember. Stas, do you remember if we had that one when we were at Gene Lester's ranch? No, I was too angry. All right, well, what was that? What was the last one?
+
+[15:28] Again, pay paved mandarins and some uh cum quats. I do love a kumquat. I like a citranjaquat. I like anything with the word quat after it, I just like saying. You know what I mean?
+
+[15:41] Uh I'll give you quickly two things I did. One, for uh listeners of the show, uh I rebuilt uh a countertop fryer to be a 220 fryer for those of you that it has two plugs going into it, two heating elements, and yes, it is as good as it sounds. It is as good as the actual one that you can just buy if you're a European and have 220 convenience sockets and you live in Belgium where they know how to fry things. But I also built out of coroplast, which is you know, corrugated plastic, a little hood that's about oh, eighteen inches by eighteen inches by about two and a half feet high, with uh uh a four-inch inline grow fan for marijuana growing things and ducting going right out my window. And I use that for frying.
+
+[16:20] And I have to tell you something else, I put it over my control freak induction, turned that sucker up to like 390 degrees, and seared with it and a sears all under the thing, a whole bunch of steaks and sausages, and not one wisp of smoke in my apartment. Not one wisp of smoke with all the Sears all in and all the super hot cast iron, nothing leaked out. So maybe we'll make plans available for people on the Patreon for that. And if they want to join the Patreon, what should they do, John? Go to patreon.com slash cooking issues.
+
+[16:54] Check it out. There's a couple different membership levels. Um you get access to our Discord channels, you get uh access to the webcam, you get prioritize questions being answered, uh discounts with friends like our people at Kitchen Arts and Letters and Glassfin and so many others. So yeah, go check it out. Cooking or uh Patreon.com slash cooking issues.
+
+[17:12] And here's something I did. You know, for years I've been trying to find a use for all the wheat brand I have when I've been, and so I think I finally started finding a decent usage for it. I'll give you more information as I have it, but I I came up with this idea. What if you just made a granola similar, and this would be a good ice cream topping, by the way, a granola similar thing that wasn't quite as crunchy with a bunch of bran in it. So what I did is I uh I have a a wheat flak, uh sorry, uh uh an oat flaker, a grain flaker, which I highly recommend.
+
+[17:38] Nothing smells better than freshly rolled oats. It's like crazy. You think how much better than regular oats can it smell? So, so so so much better than regular oats. So anyway, so I flaked about 217 grams of uh oats, and to that I added about a hundred about half that weight, two to one of just bran.
+
+[17:56] I used Rouge de Bordeaux wheat because that's what I was making bread out of this week. So two to one oats to bran, and then just uh salt. I added about five grams of salt to that, a little more maybe, and then 160 grams of maple syrup and 125 grams of coconut oil. And so what you do is you heat the salt, the maple syrup, and the coconut oil up in like a pot. Careful, it wants to boil so badly.
+
+[18:18] It wants to boil over so badly, so badly. You have to keep stirring. Please keep stirring. It's gonna boil over. Let me tell you something about boiling, it's gonna boil over.
+
+[18:26] So you stir it, and then once it's hot and bubbling for a while, you pour it over, you stir it all up, you spread it, pat it down into like a like almost like a power bar kind of thing on a cooking sheet, and you cook it at like 325, 350. Don't brown it just till it gets completely hard. It'd get harder once it cools down cool, and then you break it into pieces and it would be a great ice cream topping. So those are the two things I did. Uh now, on to ice cream.
+
+[18:51] So, uh first of all, I have to say, if you go and you look at uh Professor Goss uh uh Dairy Science and Technology ebook, you're gonna see a table. I'm gonna quiz everyone on the line about uh table three from your book, Professor. Now, of these animals, cow, human, water buffalo, goat, donkey, elephant, rhesus monkey, mouse, whale, and seal. Who has the sweetest milk? Of all of those, whose milk is the sweetest?
+
+[19:22] Don't you say, Professor? Don't you say, Professor, I know you know. What? Did you say horse? Uh no, donkey.
+
+[19:29] Donkey. Who's got the sweetest milk? What? Human? No.
+
+[19:38] No, no, no, no. Well, it's tied. It's tied. It's tied. Human and Reese monkeys, but close second, donkey.
+
+[19:46] Donkey, very sweet milk. Yeah, because I I knew I know horse, horse milk is very sweet. Because in some uh regions, they ferment it into alcohol, right? Uh yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[20:01] And it, yeah, but like uh they also ferment other th milks. Anyway, but the point, okay. What milk has by far the lowest, the lowest fat content. Uh camel? Uh camel's not on my list.
+
+[20:17] Cow, human, water buffalo, goat, donkey, elephant, rhesus monkey, mouse, whale, and seal. It's not the marine mammal. They have the highest, I believe. They do buy quite a bit. Seal has like almost 50% fat.
+
+[20:35] You know what? Mouse is an interesting guess because it's an outlier. It has quite a lot of protein, quite a lot of fat, and uh not as much uh sugar. And wait, it is mouse. I was gonna say, Oh no, that's the highest.
+
+[20:49] That's the highest fat. Highest, highest of the non-sea animals because they're so small. They need to get all that stuff in. Donkey, 0.6% fat. Almost no fat in donkey milk, which is why uh, I don't know if you know this, Professor Goff, but like the most expensive cheese in the world is donkey milk cheese, and they have to add adjuncts to it to get it to work properly.
+
+[21:10] They have to add sheep's milk. Have you ever had that pool cheese or poolé? However, it's pronounced over there? No, I haven't, no. Yeah.
+
+[21:17] Can't taste that good, am I right? It's just a gimmick, right? Because they just can't they can't milk too many donkeys. I mean, like, how good can it be? If it was good, you'd be buying it along with uh your caviar and you'd have it along with your other super fancy stuff.
+
+[21:29] Am I wrong about this? I don't know. Anyway, uh these kind of tables are the reason I really like reading uh these kinds of books because there's no other place you're gonna get a table on the relative uh compositions of different uh milks. Why did you include that in there just for giggles, Professor? Uh well, I I mean, some of those species are important in other parts of the world from a dairy perspective.
+
+[21:57] But I think it's also like you say, it's also just an instructive to think about why um some of those uh compositions are as they are. So, like the sea mammals, you know, the the difficulty of passing milk from from mother to infant, and the need for uh for a very, very uh rich uh calorically rich product. And so I think it's instructive to just think about uh each of those animals. So uh before because I'm gonna forget otherwise, you want to talk about how you got into this uh ice cream business or no? Like why like how did ice cream become the thing for you?
+
+[22:35] Well, um it it is kind of an interesting story. So my father worked in the ice cream business for all of his life, and um I kind of grew up in it, and um when I got to university age, I um came here to the University of Guelph to study the dairy science program with the intent really of going back and working in my father's business. Um, but it was one of my um professors here who became a great mentor. He was the ice cream guy here at Guelph for for 30 years before me, and um it was really him who convinced me that I should think more about going on to graduate studies and and research and so on. So uh I went to Cornell University in New York, and then um by the time I had finished my PhD, he had retired and I got his job and came back to Guelph.
+
+[23:29] So I've sort of been around ice cream since I was pretty young. Huh. And so the day so you did dairy grad at Cornell, which still has a fabulous program. Um like what okay, so I should also mention that uh, you know, as a professor emeritus, you're no longer taking on new grad students there or uh like I guess student advisory thing, but you still do teach the ice cream course and people want to learn directly from you, the short course? Yeah.
+
+[23:58] Yeah. I it's uh the course has been running here at Guelph for um more than a hundred and ten years, and uh we have no intention of stopping at all. So, and and I will keep uh keep active at that course for a few more years yet. So yeah, um still pretty active. And in fact, uh next week I'm traveling down to Australia to do my biennial course there in Melbourne.
+
+[24:25] I've been doing that for 20 years or so, and I also teach a course in Ireland and and uh we're planning that for 2026. So we have lots of lots of training and teaching uh opportunities still. So who's your main competitor there? Is it Penn State's short course? Who's got who's who's got the other ice cream?
+
+[24:45] What are the ice cream courses to beat? Yeah, Penn State. Uh um we we argue in kibits back and forth about who has the longest and who has the best and so on. But um certainly in the United States, the Penn State uh ice cream course is the one that's that's most highly known. Yeah, my son Dax went to uh some like Ohio State, Penn State football game because apparently it's a big deal, and they have like eight billion people go to that game or something like that.
+
+[25:13] And so he actually went, because I've never been to uh state college in Pennsylvania, and my grand my grandfather graduated there, and so like I've always wanted to go have the ice cream there, and I said, You can do anything you want. I'll like pay for your transport out there, whatever. Eat the ice cream and tell me how it is. And he did not. He did not have the ice cream there.
+
+[25:32] Oh. Oh, too bad. Yeah. I've got a question as a University of Connecticut graduate. Where does that program stack up?
+
+[25:41] Because we I've been told that it's a good program, but well, the ice cream is good. Yeah, the ice cream, yeah, yeah. Well, the ice cream's good, and they're supposed to have a good program. And they still have cows on site. Uh too, yeah.
+
+[25:50] All right, Professor, what's the what's the scuttle butt on uh on University of Connecticut out of stores? Um I'm sorry, I just don't know anybody at the University of Cream. There we go. I was taught lies. Their ice cream is good though.
+
+[26:04] Yeah, it does. But yeah, well, their ice cream is good. Can't argue with good ice cream. Yeah. You know, and I'll tell you this.
+
+[26:08] I don't know if you have this at Guelph, but every year a senior who takes on like a lot of studies in the ag department who focuses on uh dairy gets to make a flavor and then they make the senior flavor flavor at the ice cream thing and sell it to people, which is kind of nice. You guys do something like that? Ah, okay, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's nice.
+
+[26:28] Uh all right, all right. So um let us should we get to some questions from users? Listeners? All right. Uh Justin wants to know, Justin S.
+
+[26:39] wants to know. What are your opinions if you have them on soft serve machines? I guess the question is, do you like soft serve? Or no, what machines do you recommend? Now, do you do you use commercial style soft uh you know, like um, I guess like you know, retail establishment soft serve machines at all at uh at the university or no?
+
+[26:58] Well, we have a soft serve freezer, so we've certainly um done some work on formulation development and that kind of thing. Uh, I think just in response to the question that, you know, it it's really the ice cream of the fast food chains, and so it it has brought ice cream to uh a huge number of people, um, in a very convenient way so that uh you don't have to to scoop ice cream and you can make, of course, sundaes and banana splits and and so on with with just one barrel of ice cream. So it's from a industry point of view, it's it's definitely got a very important role to play. Um the the issues I think are are cleaning and um uh sanitation and and hygiene, um, because a lot of these freezers are operated in fast food restaurants that close down at 1 a.m. or 2 a.m.
+
+[27:55] and you don't want somebody tearing apart your half a million dollar machine. So they've created this sort of a of a heat treatment system that more or less sanitizes the machine automatically uh and it can go for a couple of weeks without being torn um taken apart and cleaned. So I think that uh you know, from a fast food restaurant point of view, they're excellent in terms of of convenience. Um but uh the biggest issue is around the food safety and the cleaning side of it. Have you had any experience with the what has always been told s sold to me as uh kind of miniature continuous freezers, the formerly Ross, now stilting uh frozen custard machines?
+
+[28:40] Yeah, I haven't had any personal experience, but I I I do know what you mean. What do you think about that technology? You think I mean if you don't have any if you don't have any feelings on it, you don't have to pretend that you have feelings on it. I'm just always been curious about it. It's always seemed kind of a cool idea to me, the ability to have like what amounts to a continuous freezer.
+
+[28:58] Right. And so you can you you can certainly kind of retrofit a uh uh soft serve machine to make hard frozen ice cream pretty easily. Uh and this is the kind of the idea there is that you've got um you're you're feeding the barrel with mix on a regular basis, but then just drawing that ice cream out and packaging and and hardening it. So it's um it's kind of that semi-batch, semi-continuous system, but it it it as long as you um have developed a good formulation and and deal with the air handling in the freezer, then uh it it can make pretty good quality product. Right.
+
+[29:38] They're they're also usually do very low overrun in the same way that like uh Carvel Soft Serves always say that they're a low overrun, soft. Do you like that style of like low overrun soft or no? Um personally no. Uh I I think that uh if you get the air content up a little bit in a more typical soft serve, um, it gives you the uh that that nicer fluffy texture kind of thing that people look for, I think in soft serve more than they would in hard ice cream. Uh another question that just struck me, and like it's I think some of our listeners might want this.
+
+[30:12] Uh uh, when you said that machine that heats itself to sanitizing, aside from sanitizing, uh people who do custard base, it always used to be said back in the day that you would have to do your pasteurization and you know, functionalization of the of the egg by cooking out, like making almost like an anglaise out of your custard base, and then you would have to age it for a certain length of time to get the uh fat crystal structure back to where you want it to before you actually froze and churn the ice cream. And then I met a guy, uh uh Italian uh machine where who did a Italian machine, it wasn't Carpeggiani, I forget what company it was, larger machine, larger, bigger. And he said that uh in fact, what they do with their machine and they think it's a better technology is to pa is to pasteurize it and then immediately freeze it with zero aging. So is there some sort of sweet spot in between no aging at all after pasteurization and aging for a while before you spin that is better than kind of what people could do if they're just cooling normally and then having to age it and spin it? Well, so um if I just take uh uh this just a step back and explain that a little bit for the for the listeners.
+
+[31:25] Um when we pasteurize an ice cream mix, um we've we've heated the milk fat. The milk fat is distributed in the form of an emulsion, so fine globules in there, very, very small. And when we spin that ice cream or or put it through the ice cream freezer, um some of those fat globules they adsorb to the air bubbles, but they also link together to form a partially coalesced fat network, very similar to what you get when you whip heavy cream to make whipped cream from it. And you know, you can't whip warm cream, the fat will just separate out. Instead of forming a network of fat globules, they just coalesce into larger and larger globules until they essentially separate out.
+
+[32:11] So this is the what would happen in ice cream in a commercial setting, if it didn't have a chance to age and for those fat globules all to crystallize, then the fat won't set up the proper structure in the ice cream. And you know, all the major industrial manufacturers, they always talk about, oh, how can we shorten the aging process because it's a time-limiting step, and then we need enough tanks to store mix in and so on. But they all agree that if it's not properly aged, then it doesn't set up a good structure, and there's a lot of defects that can follow through from that. Now, at the home level, um, depending on the kind of freezer that you have, if you had a low overrun and you weren't relying on a lot of fat structuring anyway, in terms of properties like shape retention and melting resistance, then it's not as critical. So, and it it often relates, it's the same question that I get often about homogenization.
+
+[33:20] Do I need to homogenize a mix? Well, it kind of depends on the freezing conditions. So a little bit lower fat level, a little bit lower overrun, maybe a little bit more gentle freezing, and then you're not relying on that fat structuring as much, and consequently, uh it doesn't matter as much whether it's been homogenized or whether it's been aged. So I think I think the answer is it depends, but certainly at the at the artesianal shop level and at the industrial manufacturing level, you have to you have to allow it to age to properly crystallize the fat. Right.
+
+[33:56] So there is no way to do it quickly. So like someone selling a machine that is pasteurized and freeze in one unit where it's a pasteurized, cool and then freeze, you just don't think it's gonna do as good a job as a traditional like separate tank pasteurizing, then aging, then spinning? Yeah, I don't think so, but I think you could make I think the ice cream fresh right off the machine within the next day or two would probably be very good, but um it's gonna show up a number of of um uh yead quality defects over time that um probably you know aren't going to be so desirable if you're if you're making ice cream to to resell. Yeah. All right.
+
+[34:41] Uh WizMerd wants to know can you recommend a resource for creating soft serve-based recipes? I currently use a sweet cream base that I add uh different mostly powdered mix-ins like matcha, cocoa and chai that's serving me pretty well, but I'd like an understanding flexibility in creating flavors from scratch uh and perhaps without milk. Um are you I I can't remember. I remember reading about it. Are you a are you're are you I read someone who's not a fan of bases and someone who is a fan of bases?
+
+[35:07] Are you a fan of bases or do you like individual, completely individualized recipes? Um well, I'd answer that two ways. First of all, um as much as possible, we we try to encourage people who are making ice cream to make as many flavors as they can from a single base mix rather than trying to make an individual base formulation for every flavor. It just gets way too cumbersome to try to be making a different mix for every flavor if you're trying to scale that up to uh to like uh a uh even a restaurant kitchen, but certainly an artesianal ice cream shop. Um but on the other hand, it's certainly easy to make a base mix with with you know f fresh ingredients without relying on these powdered bases that you can buy from companies who are selling them.
+
+[36:02] Oftentimes those are just blends of milk powder and sugar and stabilizer um that have been blended at the right proportions, so you just mix that into, you know, milk or cream to make your your gelato mix or your soft serve mix recipe. And um you're you're you're paying for the value of having those pre-blended powders, but you can oftentimes just replicate that pretty easily. So um if you look at an ingredient list and then and a nutrition facts table, it's usually pretty easy to kind of backpedal uh the the formulation and the recipe and then uh recreate that using, you know, basing or your own ingredients rather than relying on the pre-blended powders. And does the uh w do you use any of the programs that are or do you recommend any of the programs that are out there that help kind of juggle bases? I know Quinn has some calculator.
+
+[36:59] You don't have a soft serve calculator though. Are is anyone out there good or is are those are those resources uh in the uh online uh ice cream uh book or no? Sure, sure. There's a a lot of great um formulation calculators, and they do provide a lot of of parameters built into them. So you can find there's a couple of different apps that are available now to help uh people recreate ice cream base uh mixes, and um there's there's uh online um uh website that that has an online mix calculator.
+
+[37:35] So uh and but what they're doing is sort of taking your formulation in terms of percent fat and percent milk solids not fat and so on, and then converting that into a recipe based on the amount of cream and milk you need, and uh and that's dependent of course on the on the composition of the cream and milk. So I I always try to distinguish in in for people the difference between a formulation defined in terms of percent fat and percent protein and um from a recipe, which is you know, so many kilograms or gallons of of cream, but even that depends on the fat content of the cream that you use. So you have to kind of work back and forth between your formulation and your recipe. The formulation is going to tell you how well blended things are, but the recipe is going to tell you how much of each you know, ingredient that you need to weigh out to to mix it up. Yeah, that's good point.
+
+[38:35] Uh the you mentioned milk powder, which leads me to Quinn. So Quinn likes to jack lactose into his uh gelatos. Loves to add like absurd amounts. Some recipes. Absurd amounts.
+
+[38:50] I've always read uh from you and from others about the problem of uh sanding sanding out lactose, losing solubility and turning into kind of sandy crystals and ruining the texture. And Quinn hasn't had that problem so far. So can you tell me like does that happen only on storage or like how do we mimic that? Because it's like, you know, it goes against what kind of Quinn's experience has been. Is that would you say it's accurate, Quinn?
+
+[39:14] Yeah. Yeah, let me just pull up okay I I only have a few recipes where I call for uh pure lactose versus conventional milk powder. So let me just see what my high numbers are. Right, but do you want to talk about the sanding professor while we while he's looking that up or no that sandiness is going to take a while to happen. It's it's really a storage and distribution issue and it's um you know temperature plays a an incredibly important role there as do the hydrocolloid stabilizers which which try to protect against that lactose crystallization.
+
+[39:58] But if you're typically making ice cream and consuming it pretty fresh within a week or so and it's not being distributed and you've got good temperature control, then it's very unlikely that you would get lactose crystallization. It's really much more of a of um the kind of thing that can happen to to large companies if they're trying to store ice cream for several months at a time. Yeah. And and just on that note, you know, people might say, well, why do you want to store ice cream for so long? And that's because we have so much more demand through the summer than we do in the in the winter months.
+
+[40:37] And when you look at production capacity, a lot of companies start building their summer inventory, you know, through already beginning in February and March. And so that ice cream has to sit in cold storage from February till perhaps August before it gets pulled out. And I think that's where you want to make sure that the recipe is well blended in terms of the lactose to protein ratios and lactose to total solids ratios, and that you've got good stabilizer there to protect against that lactose crystallization. So it's not it's not an issue that typically is going to happen for artesianal shops or for homemakers where they consume the ice cream pretty quickly, you know, within a day or two or a week after making it. But it is a real problem for the larger scale manufacturers who need to store ice cream and distribute it widely, of course.
+
+[41:35] Ice cream is shipped all over the world. So if we're going to make ice cream in, you know, Australia and ship it to Japan or in France and ship it to China, then you know it's got to withstand the rigors of of those sorts of distribution channels. Well, speaking of big companies that have changed a lot over the course of their life, let's look at Briars. So Briars, you know, was I guess they're out of Philadelphia and they were, you know, they have a custard style, but they used to make a Philly style, which was just cream milk, sugar, vanilla. And it was renowned for being delicious if you got it like right next to where they made it.
+
+[42:14] Always come in half gallons, right? And then it would just turn to crud because it wasn't stabilized at all. What was the characteristic kind of not just ice crystals, but there's a characteristic dryness to Briars once it once it had been sitting around too long. What's that? What was that from?
+
+[42:30] Was that part of this the lactose coming out of it? Or what was what was going on? They, by the way, they since changed their formulation. They now stabilized the heck out of it. So, you know, Briars isn't Briars anymore.
+
+[42:41] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, well, I think it probably was related to to the uh growth of the ice crystals. But what happens is that as they grow, they kind of fuse together and they make like this n sort of a icy network in there that does give it a very dry, crumbly kind of texture. So when you put if if once it once those ice crystals are started fusing together and and uh joining into a network, then you get much more of that sort of um yeah, dri it it sounds incorrect to call ice dry, but on the other hand, you do get that very crumbly kind of texture that first comes across as as seemingly quite dry until all those ice crystals start to melt.
+
+[43:29] And um but it's while we're on stabilizer just for a second, is there any is there any wet stabilizer that can help or nucleation aid that can help in quiescent freezing so that you can make something that has a texture of an ice cream without actually spinning it? Like it doesn't just taste like a frozen mousse. Gosh, that's that that's a a really great question. That's that's been pretty elusive. There are some really interesting ice nucleating agents in nature.
+
+[44:01] Um they use them in spraying water onto ski hills, for example, but none of them are food grade. And so we've we've never really found a good food-grade nucleating agent. The idea is great. If you could make up um, you know, a a liquid, like a liquid pudding, custard kind of a thing that you could just stick into the freezer and this these ice nucleating agents would give you all that population of small and discrete and individual crystals, then you could, you know, create basically ice cream and just freeze it at home. But the problem is when you just put a a liquid mix into a static freezer, you get all those long dendritic type of crystals like icicles and in the product, and you just don't get any kind of a nice texture from it.
+
+[44:57] So when you f when you are spinning it and freezing it at the same time, you're creating rounded ice crystals and very, very small ice crystals. Um boy, if we had a a food-grade ice nucleator, it it could really uh change the the dynamics of ice cream serving and ice cream uh freezing at home. Someday, someday. Um but but somebody will find it. Somebody'll somebody'll figure out so two quick questions uh off of that.
+
+[45:28] One, now that you think about it, now that I think about it, yeah, you get these kind of acicular, like kind of long, pointy crystals when you freeze that way. Why is it that they're that shape? Whereas when you freeze alcoholic mixtures, you get more plate-like crystals. Is there some sort of fundamental difference? Good question.
+
+[45:51] I I'm I don't have an answer to that right off the top of my head. Um I think it's the I think in the case of your alcoholic beverages, you've got so much freezing point depression in there. Um, and and that water phase, there's so much of that water phase, even when it does start to crystallize, that it doesn't allow them to kind of fuse and grow into one, but rather they probably remain a little bit further apart just just because of the of the fact that you're freezing out of out of a solution that's got such a low freezing point. Right. And what what do you peg uh alcohol at like 4.7, 4.6 or something times sugar?
+
+[46:32] What's your what's your number roughly? Uh yes, it's um well, you just have to take the molecular weight. Yeah, the all those there was a question on those uh the freezing uh point depression factors for all the different sugars and so on. They're basically calculated on that concept of a sucrose equivalent, and it it's just a a simple way of trying to generate a freezing curve using existing data rather than going back to the kind of scientific first principles. So, what we do is we take all those solutes, the molecular weight of them, and then just divide that by the molecular weight of sugar to say how would you know salt or or fructose or erythritol or any of those, how would they compare to sugar on a one-to-one basis?
+
+[47:28] And then you come up with these factors to say it's uh a freezing point depression factor of like 1.9 compared to sucrose or 5.4 compared to sucrose. Right. Well, the question in about that was from Corey H. And he said uh, well, Corey said uh salts uh salt is uh often um uh quoted as having 5.85 times the uh freeze anti-freeze power of sucrose, but that is just as you say, the molecular weight ratio. But Corey says uh isn't it shouldn't it be twice that amount because salt disassociates almost uh completely into two ions in the in the mix.
+
+[48:10] Yeah, and that that's a very good question, and I I had to kind of ponder that a little bit when when it got sent to me ahead of time. Uh that would be very true if it was just talking about a dilute solution of salt in water, it would dissociate very quickly. Umx is a lot more complicated, of course. There's much less water there, and there are milk salts in there, and of course, there's the macromolecules, the proteins and the hydrocolloids, and so it's a very viscous system. And I I have no idea what the dissociation constant of salt in that kind of a complex solution would be.
+
+[48:49] If it does dissociate, then he's right that you probably should take that 585 and you know, again, multiply that by two. It's the same concept of using like invert sugar if you've hydrolyzed it or hydrolyzed lactose, you've made one molecule, or you've made two molecules out of one. But I'm just not so sure that salt would dissociate that quickly in the complex solution like mix. That's would be the only thing that would make me scratch my head about that. But I did do a little bit of a Google search, and it certainly seems like most of the people in the gelato books that publish these uh freezing point depression factors, they do all use that value of of uh five 585 or 590, which is just 342 divided by 58.
+
+[49:45] So uh yeah, it's a it's a good question, but the the answer really depends on how quickly that salt would dissociate under those conditions. So it's almost certainly somewhere between 585 and twice that, right? Right. Yes. And but it's better to account for it than not account for it at all.
+
+[50:07] Well, um it's yeah, i if you accounted too much for it, then you know your your ice cream would be harder than you really want it. Right, right. So um and and to be honest, that not a lot of people add salt to their recipes anyway. So good question, but probably relative to the amount of sweetener that's present, it's it's not going to impact the freezing curve a lot, whether you um assume some dissociation or not. Right.
+
+[50:36] And uh question I have on uh also this, and this is something I've done a lot of Googling on, I can't find any good information, found some, not very much. The the uh however you want to call it PAC, AFP, whatever you want to call it, the like the ability of something to prevent freezing, it's colligative properties. However do you want to put it, right? Uh tied to the molecular weight of the solute. But uh for a given freezing point depression, different things affect melt rate differently.
+
+[51:05] Alcohol, in my experience, alcohol makes things melt faster at a given uh freezing point than sugar does. And different salts, I mean, that's well known from the de-icing business that different salts affect melt rate uh differently, even if their freezing point depression is the same. Have you have you done anything with this? Or do you do you disagree? Do you like have any ideas about that?
+
+[51:34] Uh again, uh yeah, a very good question. I haven't done anything, I can't contribute any particular scientific knowledge to that. Um the only thing I would say though is that when we talk about, and maybe this is a different topic altogether, but when you talk about ice cream melting, there are there are two things that have to be considered. One is the actual melting of the ice. But secondly, is this structural collapse once the ice does start to melt?
+
+[52:06] And coming back to our fat structuring, if you've got a good and you've got small air bubbles and small fat globules and good fat structuring, you've got a secondary um system in there that's a lot like the fat in whipped cream, so that as the ice melts, you're still left with a good structure and good hold-up stand-up properties. When we talk about melting resistance or meltdown, we look at ice creams and watch them melt. We're not really focused on how quickly the ice is melting, but we're really focused on how much the structure starts to collapse as that ice melts away. And so I think it's just an important thing. It doesn't perhaps answer your question, but it's an important thing to consider when people talk about ice cream melting, that the ice is melting as a function of the heat transfer rate and the how how hot it is outside and how much the wind is blowing and that kind of thing.
+
+[53:07] That's your heat transfer and your melting of the ice. But then you have to look at all the role of the fat, the air bubble size, the stabilizer that's in there. How much is that holding together as the ice melts away? And that's that drip rate. I mean, people don't want to eat a cone of ice cream and have it dripping really, really quickly on their hands before they get a chance to finish the cone.
+
+[53:33] So we build in that what we call melt resistance, but it's not really melting of the ice, it's it's holding the rest of the structure together as the ice melts. Well, I think it's in your book, you literally have a picture of these like hockey pucks of ice cream on mesh, and you're waiting and measuring what's left on the mesh over time. Is that accurate? That's in your book, isn't it? Yeah.
+
+[53:55] That's correct. Yeah. They're similar than hot and bucks, but you know what I mean. Yeah. So that's all that that looking at the structural collapse as the ice melts.
+
+[54:07] And if you push that you know too far, once the ice melts, you just end up with whipped cream. And so we some of these products that they say, you know, does not melt, and you hear about the Walmart ice cream sandwich in the summertime and those kinds of things, you know, you once your ice melts, you've just you're just left with a whipped cream structure. And so there's nothing wrong with it. It's not artificial, it's just the structure that's been built into it to make sure that it doesn't, you know, drip really quickly. We got a bunch more questions for you, so I've got to power through them.
+
+[54:41] Dave Kay writes in As a home cook, what special tricks can I employ to most accurately c uh copy Hagen Dah's vanilla ice cream. I have to say I also like Hagen Das vanilla. Hagendah's makes a good vanilla. Anyway, go ahead. Uh yeah, so if you look at the Hagenda's formulation, which again you can do from just looking at their nutrition facts table, it's typically 16% fat, 4% protein, 44% total solids.
+
+[55:08] Um so it's pretty pretty high in fat and total solids. They keep the overrun content pretty low. And the most important thing though is that fast freezing. So the combination of the high fat, high solids, low air is going to give you a rich, dense product. Um, but you then the additional step is that you have to keep those ice crystals really, really small.
+
+[55:35] And so you can make something that would be the equivalent recipe of Hagendas, but if you're going to freeze that in a little home freezer that's, you know, going to take 15, 20 minutes to get to the same level of ice content as it takes like 30 seconds in a commercial freezer, then the ice crystal size is really what's going to dominate the smooth texture or or the textural performance of the ice cream. So I think the the answer is, you know, just do a little bit of reverse engineering on the recipe, come up with something that's pretty much equivalent, and then, you know, use equipment that's going to freeze it really, really quickly. What about like LN? Home people can get LN now and then temper it out. Like I know that most people overfreeze with LN's the issue, but yes, that that's the problem with with with liquid nitrogen is that they tend to go a little too far and then it becomes very coarse in texture.
+
+[56:30] Yeah. Huh. Is there any way to mitigate the like long freezing times in kind of smaller machines with hydrokyloids that doesn't affect the overall flavor release too much or no? Yeah, you can mitigate that. That's certainly an important role of those um stabilizing agents is to uh to provide that smooth texture even in the presence of a bit of a larger ice crystal.
+
+[56:55] So a little bit of something like guaragum, you know, not too much, like you say, because then you get gumminess and you get some masking of flavor, but a a little bit of something like uh, you know, all natural guar is certainly going to help to give you a smoother texture. Make sure people that you get the flavor-free guar though, please. Oh my God, otherwise it's so beanie. Uh Harris J. writes, of the sugar substitutes erythritol, alluloseylitol, etc, which has the best freezing point depression?
+
+[57:21] I'm not sure what they mean by best, but take it however you want, Professor. Um yeah, again, it's all they're they're basically all based on the molecular weight. And so if you've got a lower molecular weight sugar like erythritol, um, it's going to give you three times the freezing point depression of sucrose. And I think the only other thing to consider in that question, though, is that some of those um sugars will also crystallize themselves. And erythritol is a good example of that.
+
+[57:55] If you go much higher than like three to four percent erythritol, you could end up with the situation where it crystallizes. And so you start off with a really soft ice cream, but then after a couple of days you pull it out of the freezer and it's rock hard. And that's because the erythritol is crystallized and then you've lost the freezing point depression from it. So you you just have to be a little careful about keeping those sugars in solution to make sure they do the job that they're supposed to do. Uh J.
+
+[58:28] Ray J wrote in a question for Quinn's uh gelato calculator, but since Quinn you can answer that next week because you'll still be here. Maybe we'll save that one. Uh and then uh Frank wants to f Frank wants to know your opinion on Chapman's uh salty caramel crunch uh winning the international ice cream. Have you had this ice cream? Do you like this ice cream?
+
+[58:46] Because it's from close to your hometown. Yeah, Chapman's has done a really great job with that super premium plus line that they call it. They've got about eight or ten flavors. Um and so they went to this international ice cream consortium um blind taste test with their caramel and and it won, which is great. Um the International Ice Cream Consortium is a group of manufacturers from around the world that are what they call non-competitive.
+
+[59:16] So it excludes like Bryars and and Nestle and all of those global brands that might be competitive with each other. And it takes like Chapman's here in Canada, for example, they're not going to be competing with some of the other ice cream companies in Europe. So they're all kind of they get together to talk about issues and and they have one of these flavor competitions as part of their annual meetings. Um but this is who that group is. They're large-scale manufacturers, but not global scale, so that they're non-competitive.
+
+[59:53] Anyway, you it's not a it's not sort of a consumer panel. It's it's uh it's a judgment by his peers, basically, or their peers of of who they think you know had the best of a particular flavor. So it wouldn't necessarily win a uh a public competition, but it's a very, very good product. Well, next time next time I'm in Ontario, uh we'll check it out. So we're we're I I got us an extension for a couple of minutes.
+
+[1:00:19] Mathman has a bunch of questions. Feel free to fold into this. What's new in the book? It's just like rapid fire. What are some of the new trends that you see in ice cream that you're excited about?
+
+[1:00:27] And let's just say, like what's new in the book. Uh so um the the first thing I want to say is that um from a from a commercial manufacturing viewpoint, food safety remains our huge concern, you know, and and there's there's l been lots of headlines of you know, people eating ice cream and dying from listeria, and that's anybody's absolute worst nightmare. So a lot of work has gone on, which would all be behind the scenes related to food safety. And I think from in terms of a of um in manufacturing trend, that's incredibly important. So we've got a couple new chapters in the book that focus on food safety.
+
+[1:01:10] Um the health conscious products, they always um have a little bit of following, and so you can find the no-sugar-added uh products and the keto high protein products and the fiber-enriched products and so on. But gee, at the end of the day, so many people just say, listen, I'll I'll do well with my diet, but I just want good ice cream, you know. Don't mess with my ice cream. It's my my indulgent treat for myself. Yeah, don't we always even though all those health conscious products are important, they're probably occupying a small market share because really ice cream is positioned as that in indulgent product.
+
+[1:01:53] Um on the flavor side, um, there's a lot of globalization, which is pretty neat. We're seeing, you know, priv flavor products from the Philippines and from from uh uh India and and so on. So a lot of globalization of flavors, but then at the same time there's a lot of localization of flavors too, and local things that are unique to one geographic region that you'd never find anywhere else. So uh taking advantage of whatever is in your local market is just as important as importing some kind of an exotic uh global flavor. So those are and the other trend I think that's really important is sustainability, and and you can read into that a lot of things.
+
+[1:02:37] But for example, on the on the chocolate side, we've had so much more attention to the plight of cocoa farmers in West Africa and programs that that help give them a little bit more um you know financial uh uh incentive to to maintain in the cocoa business. And so there's a number of good programs that are kind of fair trade related to coffee and related to to cocoa farmers. And I think those trends are really great too. Well, thanks so much, Professor. Hey, I don't know if you'd be willing to, but maybe you could answer the rest of Math Man's questions off air, and we can post them on Patreon.
+
+[1:03:15] Would you be willing? Sure, yeah. Um awesome, awesome. Well, Professor Doug Goff, uh new ice cream book coming out this May. Get it while it's hot.
+
+[1:03:25] Thanks for coming on. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from Rockefeller Center, New York City, New State Studios, joined by uh John. How over here? How are you doing, John? Doing great, thanks.
+
+[0:20] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You and you hulin it up strong. You know.
+
+[0:23] In the big city. Yeah, yeah. Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels. What's up? Hey, hey, hey.
+
+[0:27] Welcome to the show. Yeah. Uh got over there in Los Angeles, we got some Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing? I'm good.
+
+[0:36] Good. Uh got a recovering Jackie Molecules who had a little bit of the sickness. How you doing? Oh yeah. I'm I've been better.
+
+[0:46] Yeah? Yeah. And in the upper left, we got uh the Quinn. How you doing? You you're feeling better though, right, Quinn or no?
+
+[0:54] I've been worse. Yeah, I'm better. You know, there is balance in the universe. So well, you're saying that there is some there's some kind of number whereby like that's it. That's all we get.
+
+[1:07] And then like someone has to feel bad in order for someone else to feel better. Uh evidently. Sweet. Um, so uh what do you guys got? This week it's no tangent Tuesday.
+
+[1:22] So if you have any questions for us and you happen to be a Patreon member, call in your questions to 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507. Uh, and if you want to know why or how to become a Patreon member, and we're gonna answer two that came in off the Discord. So this is not a joke. This actually happens, but uh who we get, John, you gonna take it this time?
+
+[1:42] Yeah, why not? Uh go check out patreon.com slash cooking issues. There's a bunch of different subscription levels. Uh, you get access to the Discord. You get uh uh, you know, some memberships, access to the live video feed.
+
+[1:52] Uh you get to listen to the episodes before they get released to everyone else. You get awesome discounts with our great partners like Kitchen Arts and Letters and Glassfin and so many others. Um Grove and Vine. So uh yeah, check it out. Patreon.com slash cooking issues.
+
+[1:59] All right. Um also um sometimes we release exclusive uh recipes, so sometimes uh Dave's recipes, or uh I've got some uh sorbet uh calculators coming up soon. So yeah, so what do we what do we got this week? Jack, has your sickness prevented you from uh going out and having a uh festive time in this past week? Well, let's see.
+
+[2:33] Me and Nastasia had a festive time before that. Um we had some bad pasta and pizza. Oh wait, so wait, bad pasta, good pizza? Bad pasta, good pizza? No, neither neither neither one was very good, but it was a it was a great vibe, and we got to see the basement where Mama Cass lived.
+
+[2:55] Uhang canyon. Mm-hmm. Well, didn't she also for a while live Nastasia in the house that we used to rent? Or did she just go to parties there? I think so.
+
+[3:07] Yeah, yeah. We used to go to this, um we used to go to this house uh right by like right underneath the Hollywood sign where all you needed to do is jump one fence and then you could walk up and like be at the Hollywood sign, like a small fence. And um, yeah, that like the mamas and papas used to hang out there, a bunch of stuff happened there. Get this. The bathroom had period carpet in it that we're pretty sure is about 50% human products.
+
+[3:33] We're pretty sure, right, Stas. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't bring slippers with me, uh, because I don't do that. And so, like, uh I I pretty much cut my feet off when I got home and just bought new ones because there's no way you're gonna clean off whatever was on that carpet. It's just like like an like an age of Aquarius freaking bathroom carpet in the Hollywood Hills where all the rockers used to go.
+
+[3:56] No, thanks. No, thank you. Thank you, No. But the house was nice. We should have murdered the people who lived there and taken that house, right, Stas?
+
+[4:04] I mean, not to say that we would do that, but we should have done it, right? No. No, come on. You love that house, no? No, I I actually the last night we were there it wasn't great.
+
+[4:16] Um because of the house or because of the people? I think the people that we had encountered that we brought with us. All right. So uh what was terrible about the pasta? Describe overcooked, undercooked, poorly sauced.
+
+[4:31] Actually, terrible no terrible might be an overreaction, but it was just, you know, uh you know sometimes when a place is just like the the vibe, it's like this old school kind of great vibe. Um you're not there for the food, put it that way. You know? Hmm. Okay, but like what was the what was the what what was the shape of the pasta?
+
+[4:50] Let's start there. What was it? Like linguini and clams, right? No, okay. It was linguini and clams.
+
+[4:56] And the clams came from a can, and so you got bent. Hey, did the shell did they have shells that you had to get rid of right after we had that conversation? No, no, there were shells. Yeah. There were shells.
+
+[5:03] Yeah. Did you look at the server as you picked up the shells and angrily threw them on your bread plate? No. We were a genius because we got the clam pasta and we got pizza. It was like a flat, thick flatbread, and so we could dip the crust in the clam sauce.
+
+[5:23] So we made a good choice. Okay. That's true. Okay. You know what my favorite pasta word is?
+
+[5:27] It just popped into my head. Pre-stranglers. Yes. Oh, yeah. Strozzo pretti.
+
+[5:29] Priest stranglers. It's like, because it's not actually about it's not comelli? Oh, I thought that was I thought it was Strozopretti, but maybe it's the same. Maybe I think it's Statza Pete. Yeah, but it for those that are worried and that this is a gonna be a violent show.
+
+[5:48] It's it's it's referring to the the collar, the priest's white collar, not walking up and grabbing a priest by the throat and uh, you know, going on speaking of uh and a Vatican, Pope on the mend I hear, and Dax was just at the Vatican. Dax is Dax is traveling through Europe just at the Vatican, and so he broke his record as soon as he left Paris a couple of years ago, Notre Dame burned down. So he went, the Pope was sick, but he didn't do anything bad to the Pope. So Dax breaks his record of you know, ill ill winds following Dax around. So that's good, right?
+
+[6:23] Good. Yeah, good, good. Uh what are your feelings? Speaking of clams and pizza, I have very strong feelings, and I'll say right now I'm for very pro clam pizzas. And what is your ideal clam pizza?
+
+[6:39] Hmm. What's the ideal clam pizza? I don't know. What's yours? I I I can't I can't think of I wouldn't really get a clam pizza.
+
+[6:49] I mean, I guess like the new like the Connecticut style. But what's that place? The famous Peppies and there's Sally's. So Peppy's is the one for fresh fresh shucked. That's their steak, is the fresh shucked.
+
+[7:00] But I actually really like Sally's clam pizza. I also used to like Lombardi's clam pizza. Uh they they stopped delivering it, and I don't go there. So I don't know if it's good anymore, but it's kind of hit or miss. But when the when the Lombardi's clam pizza was good, it was really good.
+
+[7:13] And it used to be they would deliver it, and I would say, hey, can you put bacon on it? And they'd say, sure. And then at a certain point they said, no. And then at a certain point after that, they were like, no, we won't even deliver you the clam pie anymore. And I'm like, what?
+
+[7:27] What? I was like, maybe they didn't realize this, but I have good technologies to reheat said pizza. I can make that pizza perfect. In fact, no offense to Lombardi's, but by the time it gets to your house, the crust is steamed and it's no longer good. So you need to refresh that thing.
+
+[7:43] Maybe with uh what's that? What's that thing that turns a blowtorch into a uh into a broiler? I can't remember. I mean for like butane torches and those kinds of things. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[7:52] Turns it into maybe by the end of the show I'll remember what those things are called. But that thing is good at re crisping the bottom of a pizza crust, I'll tell you what. I will say this. When you are using that device, it's a Sear's all. When you're using that device on the bottom of the pizza, if you let it stay any one point too long, as soon as it starts to brown and go black, it's gonna catch fire.
+
+[8:14] So just don't like go talking to your buddies while you're doing it because like you'll catch the pizza on fire. It doesn't ruin the pizza, especially not a Lombardi's pizza that's half burnt anyway. So, which by the way, you remember when the pizza guys, when Magoya was on here, and he hated on New Haven style pizza because it had burnt parts. And we all looked at each other like we're like I like that. I like that.
+
+[8:38] He's like, You like it burnt? I'm like, Yeah. He got he was mad at me though, because everyone was taking him to task for crapping on New Haven pizza unnecessarily, right? As like a traditional style. So I don't think he was happy with me for that.
+
+[8:51] Whatever. What are you gonna do? Whatever, exactly. What do you gonna do? What are you gonna do?
+
+[8:55] Uh yeah, so anyway, so that's my I love a c I love a clam pizza. If I had a lot of money, going back to what we were talking to uh a couple episodes ago, not the ice cream episode, because I think clam ice cream would be gross. I don't want clam ice cream. It would be nasty. But I would love to make it work.
+
+[9:12] Please don't. Uh onion ice cream, good because you cook the onions long enough for uh the heavy onion to go away and it just has like a light sulfur left over, kind of like a non-stinky durian kind of a situation. Like are we talking like Vidalia onion or red onion? It uh you know what? After you pressure cook it, it doesn't really matter because all the sharpness is blasted out.
+
+[9:33] We didn't use reds because they look nasty. I love onions I love onions. So, like I mean, like I'm just interested to see if there was any kind of well, you pressure cook them in milk, and then you puree it after you pressure cook it for like you could pressure cook it for like 20 minutes. They come out and they're fairly neutral. And then uh you blend those in.
+
+[9:52] We we just blended them into an on glazed base uh with a little I forget whether we added any more sugar to it or not. I think we just blend it into an on glazed base, like a rich no, there's there is brown, there's brown sugar in the pressure cooking. In my recipe, yeah. Oh, maybe. It's been many years since I've made it, but uh I I made it a few years ago.
+
+[10:16] Okay. I mean, I believe it. If that's what it was, I mean, Nils and I used to make it slightly differently, so I don't know which recipe we published, Nils or mine. But our on glaze base is relatively rich. It's like 50-50 milk and cream, and I believe it's I believe it's per liter of liquid, so 500 and 500, I think.
+
+[10:34] It's 10 eggs, 10 egg yolks. So pretty rich. I think 250 sugar. I don't remember. It's been a long time.
+
+[10:41] I'm doing it all from memory, but I do remember this. If you vacuum bag your creme anglaise mix, it tastes a lot better than if you just ziplock it. If you're going to do low temperature cooking, for some reason, if you just ziplock it and drop it in the low temp, and the way the best way to do it is to set your circulator at 85, drop it in Celsius, drop it in, and then turn it it'll automatically drop down to 82, and then put it at, I forget whether it's 82 or 83 and let it ride there for like 15 15 minutes, I think is the answer. You can let it ride longer and it'll get thicker, and you you just have to have it enough to kind of pasteurize it and then you know kind of functionalize it and thicken it. The trick is after you pull it out, is you put it on the table and whack, whack, whack, whack, whack it, whack, whack, whack, whack.
+
+[11:25] Because if you don't, it gets clumpy. That was something that was discovered many, many years ago by the Rokas when uh probably Jordy Roca was doing his first kind of low temperature sous vide um anglaise mixes in like 2000, you know, or 2001. And I tested and and they hang straight, they're they're right on that, got to whack it around. But when we tested Ziploc versus vacuum bag, there was a bit more of and it won't matter if you're doing onion ice cream, funnily enough, but there's a bit more of a sulfur note in uh an anglaise when it's cooked not in a vacuum bag low temp. I mean, that crap flashes off when you're cooking in a uh on a on a stovetop.
+
+[12:01] Although, again, randomly, there were chefs, um uh Sam Mason comes to mind, who whose ice creams are terrific, you know what I mean, who don't like to cook their egg bases because they they don't like the flavor of cooked egg, even when they are using eggs for their emulsification and functional properties. So they don't they don't cook them, or if they do, they cook them at a very low temp just to pasteurize them, but they don't want that cooked egg aroma. As opposed to Heston Blumenthal, who overcooked his eggs and makes scrambled eggs uh ice cream and sold it for a lot of money and got a lot of press. I made scrambled egg ice cream by mistake once and I threw it out because that was gross. It was gross.
+
+[12:41] The first time anyone makes a large amount, well, if you've ever made a tried to make a large amount of creme anglaise and you're a home cook, and you are like, Oh, I'm doing it on a pot, and you have a little saucepan and you're like, Well, I I'm good at this. And then you're like, I'm gonna make a s I'm gonna make a giant stock pot's worth because I have a whole bunch of people coming over and I found a soft syrup machine on the street and I need five gallons of ice cream base for this party I'm throwing. Well, as soon as, you know, if you're not skilled and you haven't done it before, you know, scaling up from a small sauce pot of creme anglaise to a giant, giant stock pot of creme anglaise is a recipe for making Heston Blumenthal's uh scrambled egg ice cream. And it damn the fact that I was like watching that thing and not stirring it enough and had too much heat, and then I just saw the curds goo and like float up to the top, and I was like, I could still fix it. I'm skimming the curds off the top of this busted, busted anglaise.
+
+[13:37] It's just a nightmare. And I tried to spin it anyway. God was it terrible. Not only that, one of the freezers was broken and I hadn't fixed it yet, so I tried to chill it with uh dry ice, and so it was also vaguely carbonated, so it was vaguely carbonated like uh like scrambled egg saucer. It was a nightmare, it was abysmal.
+
+[13:55] But for years afterwards, because I used to make Zabayon all the time. I love making a Zabayon, you know, eggs, like uh acidic uh white white wine, um, but sugar, blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but you whisk it together, it gets nice, thick and foamy, you know what I mean? And then uh, you know, you pour like a marsala or something, you pour it over uh um anything really, but you thicken it. And for years afterwards, I wouldn't heat the Zabayons enough, and they would come off fluffy and die instantly. You know what I mean?
+
+[14:24] For years after I messed up that on glaze base. Took me years to get back to where my Zabayon once belonged, so be wary. Um we get into that. On your ice cream? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[14:37] Yeah. No tangents today. No tangents. No tangent Tuesdays on cooking issues. Oh man.
+
+[14:44] Uh you know, I can't wait. Like, Stas, in like a year, we'll probably just be able to like have bots come on in our place. For all I know, Nastasi's already done that. For all I know, I'm speaking to a fake Nastasia right now. And you know, I hope for her sake that the real Nastasia is like somewhere like having some nice procedure done that she wants to have done, some sort of like self-care procedure that she enjoys.
+
+[15:07] Anyway, um what I tried? What? I answered like a bot to someone on a dating app. Did you get a date? No.
+
+[15:18] I mean they asked for a date, but I was like, this is disgusting that they think that this is me. Well, they don't know you though. They don't know you though, right? But you and just in general. Well, the me, the memey started off, and then it didn't, it wasn't going so well.
+
+[15:36] So then I was like, I'm gonna I'm gonna try this bot thing. Did you tell the bot what the story was? Did you say hey bot? I was the bot. I was I was the bot.
+
+[15:46] I was answering like a bot. You know, I don't say L O Like L. Oh, so you weren't you didn't actually sick a bot on the person. I became I became a bot. I see, I see.
+
+[15:57] You treated yourself like in the same way that like when I'm in an uncomfortable situation, I try to pretend I'm dead. You tried to pretend that you were a bot. Yeah. Okay. Yes.
+
+[16:08] Well, it worked. So he liked the bot better than you. Yes. What's up, big boy? Like that kind of stuff.
+
+[16:20] Like just like the being interested in the use the use of LOL. Literally, the use of LOL is like makes people feel so much better about themselves, and I find it disgusting. What are you wearing? LOL, send me a pick. Wow.
+
+[16:40] What a line to draw. Yeah. I'm just trying to imagine Stas going like Uber bot. Or like, or like because the thing is, let's not forget that Nastasia the hammer Lopez was a poetry major. So she could do different levels of bot.
+
+[16:54] All right. I'm just being being real here. So she could be like, am I gonna be like a like a good bot? Like Chat GPT four or like three? You know what I mean?
+
+[17:02] Like, where am I gonna draw the line? Am I like, you know, a scammer bot? Like what what am I? So, you know, anyway. Um sad.
+
+[17:10] So, but the ch the thing is is that it's good to know if they respond to something that you hate, that's good to know. Cause then, you know, swipe left. Yeah. Yeah. What about something where it initiates reac like like interactions in a way that you hate, and then when they swipe left, you're like, no, no, no, I was just kidding.
+
+[17:33] That was a bot to see whether you liked BS. You know what I mean? Like, was that possible to code, you think? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like that.
+
+[17:39] You know what I mean? I don't know. Weed out. I was just disgusted person really liked the the bought me more than the beginning me you know yeah I mean you know although word to the wise if somebody changes their personality drastically that is a there's something's gonna happen you know what I mean anyway uh it's weird that they would be like whoa finally she sounds like a lady I can date you know what I mean Dave I think you should be a nastasia dating coach uh that'd be a terrible idea like I had exactly one success in my dating career and I'm married to her right everything else nightmare so um uh yeah yeah uh all right uh any uh any other food what do you got Queen I know Quinn's got some food garbs what do you got yeah I made um we did a rabbit Japanese curry so we butchered a rabbit brazed the legs and rabbit stock added some you know standard vegetables the pre-made Japanese curry which one is that is block which which one's the which flavor is is quote unquote Japanese because they make a bunch of Japan makes a bunch of curry blocks like which one which flavor was it wasn't Vermont curry was it I hate Vermont curry um no offense people who love Vermont curry it was the um I just don't like it yeah I also don't like curry verse the golden curry okay the golden curry brand all right yeah. Familiar.
+
+[19:16] Medium or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. And then a little extra uh allspice. You know, some ginger, some onion, you know.
+
+[19:23] So if you pretty normal stuff. If you had rabbit stock, that means somebody, some poor sorry sap had to bone that freaking rabbit out. Who was it? Well, so here's what we did. We had the whole rabbit, we took the legs off, put them aside, we took the loin off of the main body, and then we had sort of the spine and the rib cage, and then we just roasted off those bones and made like a very, very, very basic stock.
+
+[19:56] Uh was what's the name of that Glenn Close movie where she boils the rabbit? Where like she's a she's a psycho and she takes the family rabbit and sticks it in a soup pot. No one any of you saw this movie? Very famous movie. It's like uh penetle attraction.
+
+[20:12] There you go. Ding ding. Is it yeah, right? I think that's it. And uh so did you also put the head in the pot?
+
+[20:18] Was it a little bit of a rabbit rabbit head stew? Or did they not give you the? Uh yeah. Uh now on the loin, did you leave the bones on the loin or no? No, we basically took the the loin off of the back and then sliced it.
+
+[20:39] And then that we became uh little katsu, little cutlets. It was really good. I bet you get like one tenth of one ounce of rabbit per rabbit. I mean, it's just such a n boning rabbits is such a nightmare. Such a f such a freaking nightmare.
+
+[20:53] Now, how was the loin how'd you say you'd cook the loin again? Again, the loin we took it off the carcass. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cut each loin into like two or three pieces, and then pounded it out to like before. Oh, cut it.
+
+[21:07] And then bread it in bread. Oh, that sounds good. Yeah. Hey, Stas, how how dry you think your mom could make a rabbit loin? I don't know, Dave.
+
+[21:18] I don't know. I don't know. Because like I'm trying to think of a meat that dries out faster than rabbit. The cutlet is actually I think a good call in this case. I think cutlet is a good call.
+
+[21:30] Because you can flash cook it, right? Wait, did you say you did you fr you panned it like like just floured, like a salting bulk or like a schnitzel with full-on egg and breakfast? No, no, no, no. Like a like a like a three-stage uh breading on the cutlet. Thank you.
+
+[21:45] Because again, we're going for like Japanese cuts of curry, right? So the legs are in the stew and then the cutlet is the loin. Yeah. Yeah. Well.
+
+[21:55] Poor little bunny. I don't mind like I think it's weird when people don't eat animals because they're cute. You know what I mean? It's like, like, why why is it more why is it morally not that you've believed, not that any of us believe this, but why is it morally better to eat animals that are ugly? Doesn't make sense.
+
+[22:18] Doesn't make sense. Plus all animals are cute, almost. Almost all animals are cute. And if we're going for animals that like we like not to eat, then why don't we eat pandas? Is it because they're endangered?
+
+[22:29] Nobody likes pandas, right? Pandas are nightmares. Wait, who why do you think it's a good one? No one likes pandas. I mean people's things on earth.
+
+[22:39] They're the worst. They're the worst. Pandas are the worst. Like I like I can't figure out like which animals you'd rather, less rather have. If they were people, what animal would be worse to have at dinner?
+
+[22:51] A panda, a goose, or a sloth? A goose. Yeah, the goose terrible. You're right. Goose, right?
+
+[23:01] Yeah, yeah. Sloth will bore you to death. The panda will be there murdering its children. And then they, you know, the goose will be murdering everybody, and the sloth just won't do anything, won't help with the dishes, won't do squat, have crap growing out of its fur while it's sitting at your table. It's like when someone comes to your house and like they're they anyway, whatever.
+
+[23:25] Uh here's for you, Quinn. J. Ray Ray writes in, hey Quinn, we've been loving your chocolate gelato generator, uh, especially as we can adjust it for single origin chocolate we use in our very small restaurant on a tiny island in Denmark. By the way, Dax is going to Denmark for school. So if anyone has any fall time recommendations in Copenhagen, he's gonna be there.
+
+[23:48] Uh we currently also use the creamy. Creamy, but we have a larger catering uh thing coming up for 55 folks, and we would have access to a commercial/slash industrial ice cream machine. Yeah, but you know what, J. Ray Ray, do you when you say commercial industrial, do you mean like the whatever the modern equivalent of an LB100 is, like a couple of quarts, or do you mean like you know what I mean? Because there's like a huge difference between those two things.
+
+[24:14] Anyway, uh, we would have access to a commercial ice cream machine, uh, but could this recipe translate with such a machine? If we produce the gelato a few days beforehand, we won't be able to spin it, probably meaning that the resulting gelato will be rock hard when we want to serve it. What kind of tweaks could we integrate to make sure it is servable and not immediately meltable gelato? Wait, so Quinn, before you get to this, I'm trying to understand. So he wants to spin it in a regular machine, right?
+
+[24:38] So I think he wants to use your creamy recipe, but then he's gonna put it in a regular freezer prior to service, so he's wondering whether it should be at that. Listen, whatever Quinn says, J, I'll tell you this run a freaking test. Run a freaking test beforehand. Make the make the thing however you're gonna make it. It won't matter how you make it if you do the test of how service is gonna work.
+
+[25:01] No matter what you're gonna do, don't do it for 55 people first. Anyway, all right, Quinn, go. Well, my recommendation was because the calculator can you can set the service temperature anywhere between uh negative eleven and negative twenty. So depending on what your setup actually is, you could just cheat and make the regular sort of tempered service recipe, but instead of worrying about physically scooping it for service, you could put the gelato into some sort of either circling mold or your actual serving dish and just have it portioned in the freezer. Um this leads me to think about so last week we had uh Douglas Goff, world famous ice cream scientist on.
+
+[26:01] And by the way, here's another Patreon benefit. So we weren't able to get to all of mathman's questions, and so we had Professor Goff answer them off air and put them uh and Quinn posted them to the uh Patreon. So it's another advantage, like you know, where else are you gonna get someone like Douglas Goff answering your ice cream questions in a personal way without even my loony intervention in between? So he just answered it directly, right? Uh uh, but what the thing that I'm really interested in that no one's been able to run down, and I wonder whether we could get somebody at the University of Guelph for something because they have we spoke a little bit about it last week, but melt melt speeds.
+
+[26:39] So have you ever weird discs, the you need the hockey puck and you need the disc and you need the chamber to test it. Tested the melt rate of uh tempered ice cream versus from the freezer, like ice cream that's tempered from the freezer, quin style. Uh directly. Yeah, because for a catering event, melt rate is really important because you have to portion it, and then the service captain is gonna look at you like with a weird stink eye, and then you have to like, you know, and then it's not ready to go out, and they're sitting on the pass too long, and then the chef starts screaming, and then something else happens, and then somebody gets up to have a smoke break or terrible things happen, and then like all of a sudden the stuff's sitting out for a while. So it would be good to know if there is a melt rate difference.
+
+[27:31] This is like a test that I wish I'm not gonna run it because I don't even have ice cream machines anymore that are instantly available to me. Uh but I think it would be an interesting test uh to run. Like tempered ice cream. Obviously. Yeah.
+
+[27:46] I mean, uh you're assuming the same formulation or different formulation. No, I'm assuming you're gonna serve somebody tempered ice cream, right? There's quin style ice cream that's tempered at minus 20 or 18 or whatever your actual number is. Don't get that, it's not quibble about the actual number. And there's ones that are there's ones that are meant to come out of a dipping cabinet, which are a good like eight, nine degrees look warmer, right?
+
+[28:11] So then they like, and you know, one of them's gonna be rock hard in a freezer, and one of them's gonna be scoopable out of the freezer. The question is, is scoopable out of the freezer one melt any faster if you have to service it and send it out? Like what is the time, what is the sit time you get once it's out of the freezer? Advantage is well anecdotally, I would say it does. Does what?
+
+[28:34] Affect it. Yeah, I mean, but it'd be good to know it melt a little faster. It would just be good to know. Because like then you could tell people instantly being like, what what is your situation? Now, an advantage you w one of the disadvantages of having something come directly out of the freezer is if something comes directly out of the freezer, a plate, let's say, it gets instant condensation on.
+
+[28:53] Everybody hates when someone served a dessert that's clearly been stored in a freezer. You're like, what are you, a joker? You couldn't plate this thing fresh? Why is my plate have like this freaking condensation all around it? We all know what I'm talking about, right?
+
+[29:05] So like if it's gonna come out of the freezer and be that's the one advantage sometimes in doing mass platings and things that are tempered. You can get cool plates, right? Like, you know, but not ones that are gonna get huge amounts of condensation on them. And then you temper it up and they go out as you do them, right? Whereas there's a certain awesomeness to be having a freezer there, but then you still have to then take it out of the freezer and pop it on the plate so that the plate is not itself a nightmare of condensation.
+
+[29:32] And in a catering event, very few people and very few applications, do you have enough freezer space to have fully plated a frozen McGilla for all those people and then and then pull it out? So it would just be an interesting thing to know from uh workflow standpoint, like what the melt rate is compared, like a uh a tempered norm tempered normally or a quin tempered, you know what I mean? I mean, they could definitely make a little batch of each, like even like a 500 gram batch of each, and they could run that test. Yeah. If only I was thinking about it.
+
+[30:05] If only somebody at Booker and Dax liked to make ice cream all the time, they could run this test. Hey, Styles, do you know anyone like that? Yeah, yeah, I'll I'll I will run the test as well. All right. Uh all right.
+
+[30:19] Um how do you Kjadlin? Kajadlin? Kajadlin. What do you think, Quinn? Ke Kajadlin.
+
+[30:27] Yeah. Kajadlin. All right. Yeah, I uh yeah. Cajadlin.
+
+[30:32] Uh a friend asked this question. I swear it's been covered on the show before, but I'm having no luck searching the transcripts. Uh anything would be appreciated. Uh I wonder if anyone's done the experiment of compar of comparing bread made with Stas, you're gonna hate this question so much. Most of the questions.
+
+[30:49] So anyway. Uh I wonder if anyone's done the experiment of comparing bread made with soft flour. So by soft flour I mean soft wheat flour, low protein flour, uh, to bread made with strong flour and seeing whether you can tell the difference. All right. I'm gonna try.
+
+[31:08] Goodbye, everybody. Goodbye, everybody. So rough, man. Stas is so rough, man. It's like, you know, what am I supposed to do?
+
+[31:20] What? Soft flour plus extra gluten versus high protein flour. Oh, right, right. In other words, like, can you mix I think it's like can you mimic a high protein flour by taking a soft flour and adding uh gluten to it? Well, um, yes and no.
+
+[31:39] So people who, like, for instance, let's say you're English. I don't know, maybe you are English for all I know. In England, most of the flowers, the AP flowers, are made by milling local grains which are softer and adding a bunch of very hard um spring wheat from like North Dakota and Manitoba to uh to it to strengthen the heck out of it, right? And so that that is possible, but like most of the flowers that we get, whether it's soft, like white lily or you know, uh, or whatever your cake flour is, or ones that are hard are refined, meaning, no offense to them, they're relatively flavorless. If you're milling your own wheat, there's a huge taste difference between softer wheats and harder wheats, just in the way that they way that they taste.
+
+[32:28] So we're gonna subtract that and just talk about kind of functionality. The main, there's a couple of main differences. Also, like most soft flour, a lot of soft flours that you buy have been uh chlorinated, and uh that increases their water holding capacity and makes them really good for cakes, right? So let's subtract that out. And you're just saying that you have like a biscuit flour that has been not, you know, chlorinated, not bleached that way, and you're like, can I strengthen it?
+
+[32:52] Again, you can make it a lot stronger by adding gluten to it, but what you're not gonna be able to do is um damage the starch. So soft flour is one of the things that is kind of cool about them is because the wheat, the way it breaks up, uh is soft enough that it doesn't break the starch granules and damage them, is is that in general it takes a very small amount of water to hydrate uh a uh a soft flour. Whereas a hard flour, protein wants to absorb a lot of water, so you have to add more water to it. And also broken starch absorbs a lot more water than uh than you know, intact starch does. So those two things change the water binding of the flower.
+
+[33:34] So you can't directly mimic it just by adding protein in, uh you know, gluten protein. You have to also add in kind of broken starch, and at that point, what's the point? But you can make it stronger. So if you have a flower you love and you want to, you know, gluten it up, go ahead. You know what I mean?
+
+[33:53] Did I answer the question without taking the whole show? Think so. Yeah, all right. Yeah. Sea stuff, did she actually leave?
+
+[33:59] That would be hilarious. Um I'm here. What it w like you know what the problem is though, is that like phones now. When I was a kid, the one of the awesome things about phones was when you were mad and you slammed the receiver, people could hear it. Oh yeah.
+
+[34:19] You know what I mean? Yeah. It was like, people were like, oh man. Damn. She's bent.
+
+[34:27] You know what I mean? Someone should develop AI generated phone slam sound. So it sounds slams down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you know, like mic drop a phone slam.
+
+[34:39] Yeah. Crash. Yeah. Great. Because remember, remember, well, for those of us that are old enough, is like, first of all, when you were trying to listen in on people's conversations, you would because people don't realize this, but everyone's phone was connected to the same physical wire.
+
+[34:56] So like five people could pick up the phone without being on a conference call, and you'd all be talking on the same line. So what you but as soon as someone picked up a line, you hear, right? And so you'd know something you're like, who's listening? Who's on my phone? Right.
+
+[35:09] So you'd slip your finger under the receiver, and then you'd lift the receiver up to your ear, and then you slowly lift your finger up so you can hear what they're saying. And then when you were done, you'd be like, you slowly push it back down and put the receiver back down, then move your finger away. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[35:30] Good old days. Good old days. Uh I mean, not that they were good. They were old though. They were.
+
+[35:36] Yeah. Isaac writes in, uh, here's another one, Styles that you're gonna love. Uh, I didn't quite understand the way it came through, so I mentally autocorrected it, Isaac, see whether I got the your the gist right. Does nixtamalizing uh well let me see? Does nixtimalizing have a final lasting impact on crispness after frying?
+
+[35:56] Okay, so so okay, so first of all, I'm gonna start. There's alkali treatments, right, with cowl, and then there's nixtimalizing with which only works with grains. So I think Isaac's is interesting, Isaac's interested in using calcium hydroxide or slake lime or cowl or whatever you want to call, which is what they use to turn corn into masa for tortillas. And before I get further, I'm sure most of you already know this because we've done shows on it and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But uh there's a couple of things that happen.
+
+[36:27] You pre-gelatinize, because you're cook, you're not only adding this alkaline stuff to it, right? So you're pre-gelatinizing, you're adding calcium to it, which has an effect, and you're alkalizing it, meaning it's become more alkaline. So all of those things, that's the smell, right? All that, all of those things go into making uh a masa. And then you, you know, the the cow helps dissolve the outside of the seed coat, so part of that's wiped off, and how much you wipe off makes a different niximalization, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
+
+[36:56] But uh, alkaline things also, uh, the calcium also strengthens cell walls. So it means that if you cook something in uh in alkaline water, uh it uh wait, opposite, destroys cell walls. So if you add, if you add um if you add alkalinity to uh like vegetables like baking soda to vegetables or to beans, they get soft fast, right? Uh and because they're alkaline, they also I think tend to stay greener as opposed to acids, which tend to kind of make the chlorophyll and things go go crappy, right? Cal is interesting because even though it's alkaline, so it makes things cook faster, the calcium cross-links it so that the pectin doesn't break down even a higher temperature.
+
+[37:44] So you can have things that stay crisp but are alkaline, right? So it's like they stay green, but they're also crunchy. So we used to use it uh cow for uh crosslinking bananas. So we would cross-link bananas, it's a t old tie trick, and then you can cook the hell out of the bananas without them breaking apart, even though they're ripe, right? And you can do the same thing by pre-treating with cow, especially you can pre-treat with cow, and then you can leave, you can adjust the alkalinity so that they're no longer alkaline if you want.
+
+[38:12] But anyways, there's two different things going on here, right? Niximalization or using calcium and or using alkalinity to shift something in cooking, right? Okay. Um, for example, if I were to treat cabbage leaves with quick lime before frying, would they fry crisper or stay crispy longer? So if you treat it with cowl beforehand and then keep it and then kind of don't have it be too basic, you'll cross-link the calcium, and the leaf itself will have less tendency to wilt than it would if you hadn't treated it, right?
+
+[38:43] Will the coating you put on it stay crisper? I don't know. I mean, like people, in general, what's happening when you're doing, and then you say, um, I've done some experiments using slake lime in liquids as a liquid replacement in batters and have yielded very crisp product, but I'm not 100% um on the source. When you're using an alkaline product in a in any time you're shifting something alkaline and you're deep frying it, you're going to increase the browning rate dramatically, dramatically. And then also, if there's acids in there, you're gonna have an acid base reaction, which will create leavening, right?
+
+[39:16] So when people put baking sodas in, they're a shifting something more alkaline, soda. They're shifting it more alkaline, which is gonna make it brown faster, but also that stuff will decompose even not in the presence of an acid in frying and create leavening, bomb, burst out and make a little bit crisper product that way. I don't know what's gonna happen in in an actual nicked malized product is you've drastically increased the water holding capacity. So if you wanted a high amount of water in there, which means you have to fry it longer to get all of the water out, but then you have a very, very porous product that can be very crunchy. So a lot of people who like a masa batter, they want a thicker batter that's like cooked like like way through that is like like crunchy, but also gonna absorb a lot of oil.
+
+[39:58] You can't ever win. That's my guess. My guess. But you you tell me exactly what you mean, Isaac, and I can answer more. At Huhe's end, I'm going to attempt bagels and all the good recipes I've found recommend just baking soda uh or malt syrup.
+
+[40:11] It's not necessarily an orb, you could do both. Do both baking soda, I use baking soda and malt, or baking soda and honey. You need a reducing sugar. The point is putting a reducing sugar into the boiling water. Uh I wasn't sure uh if that was a liability thing or why they, or if they're just worried about getting sued, if they misuse lye, or if these other meth methods are preferable.
+
+[40:29] The internet seems extremely mixed, so I don't know what to think. But of course, ideally like the method of the great bagel places in New York. You just want the bake the water to be slightly alkaline. And again, it's a browning thing. So in in pretzels, when you're when you're doing a lie dip in pretzels, it's to get that soapy lye flavor that indicates pretzel, right?
+
+[40:52] So if next time you put a real honest to God pretzel in your mouth, not a BS pretzel, think about soap. Like not in a bad way. I mean, like I love that flavor, but think about soap, right? Because it's got like an actual alkaline flavor to it. Bagels, unless someone's making a pretzel bagel.
+
+[41:09] Pretzel bagels could be good, right? But unless someone's making a pretzel bagel, then it's not going to have that alkaline note. So they're not looking to make it excessively alkaline. They just want to shift the water into the alkaline side such that you get good browning on the bagel in not too long a period of time. The malt, right, and or the honey, which is why you knew reducing sugar there, not like regular sucrose, is also there to add instant kind of browning impact on it, right?
+
+[41:38] So the combination of an alkaline environment and a reducing sugar means it gets briddy bridity bridity brown, right? But not pretzel brown, right? So I I would say that it's not just a uh, I would say it's much easier to use baking soda. I wouldn't, I wouldn't bother trying to go get live for that. Uh Calvin H, uh, I have been enamored by the spirit Batavia Arach, the Van Oesten brand, which is brought to you by House Alpens, by the way, the good folks at House Alpens, for use in my tiki drinks in the past couple of years.
+
+[42:10] I noticed that the mash bill calls for Java Red Rice, and from some cursory research, Java red rice seems to be a variant of Chinese red yeast rice, a koji cousin. How close are these ferments in flavorslash enzyme? I can't find action, I can't find much info on it. Um are there any other interesting liquors that make use of Koji cousins cousins outside of Japan, Korea, and China. Well, I don't know the answer to that last question.
+
+[42:34] The next time we get rich on, we can ask. Okay. What do you got? Well, let me answer the question on this first. Because I spoke to I spoke to Josh Holly at House Alpens, and he believes, although it could be wrong, that they are using a fermented rice in a ball format, right?
+
+[42:51] So he says, it sounds um, he says, I've heard recently from Eric, Eric Seed is the you know, the owner of uh House Alpens. Um he believes that they actually are using a red rice. There is a Javanese like Javanese red rice. So he believes that it's starting with the red rice, not there the the red yeast rice is a particular mold strain that produces a a purplish bloom on the outside of rice. And the Chinese red yeast rice is not, does not start life as red.
+
+[43:19] Whereas like the Javanese is just an like an unmilled uh like rice whose the hull of it is red. Okay. And that that's he believes what they use, but I haven't been able to speak to Eric directly yet. Um what I've heard recently from Eric is that the red rice component really starts the whole thing off, uh, just like you would in a rice wine, uh, like a coo or a jiku, but not it's not a solid state, it's a starter ball of yeast. So it's like one of those balls, like you can buy those like kind of kind of like yeast balls that are really yeast and bacteria.
+
+[43:49] Uh, the rest of the way is sugar cane molasses. Sounds like they don't use a lot of copper in their stills, so there's some wilder aromatics that are partly due to the starter and partly due to the still. Alright, what what were you gonna say, Quinn? Well, just the final point of the question about interesting liquors. Um of the talks at KojiCon is actually about Indian mixed grain liquors.
+
+[44:20] So there is actually a whole tradition in a very specific region of India of, you know, mixed fungal bacterial yeast, started um, you know, grain wines that um you know hasn't been really exported at all. So just if they're interested in other koji, you know, um adjacent products that's and you can afford to fly there. Well, it's like it's sort of research. So they they're they're made with again a similar sort of uh ball or disc uh starter, where it's a mix of um of cultures of microbes. Do you remember the name?
+
+[45:14] Do you write it down? Uh no, I forget. All right. Um but they can uh Google Cobo ferments. They're an Indian-based Koji and other uh fermentation company.
+
+[45:33] And they gave the talk. Are they are they like extremely northern or are they southern? I wanna say this was like Eastern India? I forget. Well, maybe someone will chime in.
+
+[45:52] Dr. Smokehouse says, uh, I make and cold smoke my own hams. And what is your take uh on the best temperature to cook a RE cured ham? Currently, I favor lower temperature cooking. I currently also do not have a steam oven, but I'm considering one, and so would like your take on that.
+
+[46:07] Well, my take on that is if you're curing your own hams, get you a steam oven, right? Now I haven't used uh the new, you know, again, if they want to send us one to test, I will. I've used the old um ANOVA uh steam oven, which is the by far the cheapest uh steam oven that you can get. It's a real steam oven. And something like it's it's for certain kinds of things that you would want to use a combi oven for.
+
+[46:34] So in a in a restaurant, everyone loves the combi because it's just a freaking monster. It can go from steaming to roasting like that because it's got it's basically burning enough power to to like electrify a whole town. You know what I mean? It's just like an absurd amount of power going into it. You know what I mean?
+
+[46:53] It's like a race car uh with a price tag to boot. Whereas the APO is the exact opposite of that. It's it's taking one weenie little, you know, 15 amp, or you know, I think it's I don't even think it's dedicated 20, 15 amp, like you know, 125 vol or 15, depending on how you think of it. American convenience socket outlet, the bane of my existence, right? And it's trying to power a relatively large box where it's boiling liquids, which is a really energy intensive product process.
+
+[47:23] So it's viciously underpowered. But if you take into account the fact that you know it's viciously underpowered and you're gonna be doing things for a long time, it's really great at certain things, like reheating and like hams, which is basically just a reheating problem. Um you're not looking to cook it, right? You've already smoked, it's already cured. You're not looking to cook it.
+
+[47:43] You just want to bring it up to a gentle temperature. I keep it typically below 140 or you know, uh 60, below 60 uh Celsius. So I like to do like 135 in that range, 100% steam, right? And then keep it in a wrap, because I don't want, I don't want to steam. Oh, in these steam ovens, a lot of times there's a lot of transfer in between the steaming condensing all the time and running off onto the bottom and the product.
+
+[48:09] You don't want that. So the last time I cooked a ham, I like literally left it in the foil it came in. You know what I mean? Uh, you don't need a huge barrier, but you need some barrier to, you know, just to washing away uh, you know, the outside of the ham over time. And just let it ride for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours.
+
+[48:27] It's a long time, basically infinity. You know what I mean? Just wait for it because it's gonna take a long time for the ham to heat up. And then if you want to, again, if I can remember the name of that thing that you can use to turn a uh a blowtorch into a into a broiler, or you could just throw it into a super hot, you know, oven and and crisp it off. Now, what the old timers used to do is they would use a five gallon lard can.
+
+[48:51] So back in the days when people used to buy uh lard by the five gallon can, you would get a five gallon lard can and you'd uh fill it up and you would put the you would put the ham into the lard can and then you would put the lard, you put water in it or whatever you want. You pre-soak it sometimes first, depending on whether you're a country ham. If you're a country ham, you're pre-soaking it a little bit first. You put it in with water and whatever other aromatics you want, right? So here you're not trying to prevent kind of crosstalk from the ham and the liquid, right?
+
+[49:19] And then you fill it and you bring it up to the to the boil, you put the lid on the can, and then you wrap that sucker up and you just let it ride for a long time in the lard can. And then by the time it has kind of cooled off, it's been cooling off as it's cooking through to the center of the lard can and you got yourself uh oh. So you could do that like in an igloo, right? I don't think you need to go all the way up to boiling. Um I could do the math eventually.
+
+[49:46] Huh. I could do the math. I could do the math. Because uh what you need to do is you need to figure out the the uh load in your igloo and then figure out your drop rate in the igloo, which I used to have calculated back when I used to think this was interesting. Back when it used to be that, oh, maybe not everyone could afford a circulator back when they were really expensive.
+
+[50:04] This is the kind of thing people used to do. They would buy five-gallon igloo coolers and calculate how long the the temperature drop would be. Uh, but I I haven't done it in a while, but uh that would I guess also work and be relatively old school. Uh all right, what else? What what what do we got on the uh we got two questions on one for John and one for from Quinn on the Discord, right?
+
+[50:23] So somebody went to Dietrich's and got a Lebanon bologna. Yeah, you know. Um and they're not gonna tuck into it just yet. So what's the best way to store it? First of all, Dietrich, go to Dietrich's in Pennsylvania.
+
+[50:34] It's not from Lebanon the country and doesn't taste like Oscarmeyer bologna, right? Not it's not even related to Oscarmeyer bologna. First of all, we've spoken about in the era, but look up Lebanon Bologna. It is hard as hell and sour as hell and smoky as hell. It's those three things as hell.
+
+[50:51] So what you do is you buy it and you slice it and just have a good mustard. Maybe they could get a mustard maybe from Ghent. Maybe. Maybe from Ghent. Maybe.
+
+[51:00] Yeah. Like a crusty bread. You know what else that Gentis must mustard is so good on? Liverwurst. Yeah.
+
+[51:08] Liverwurst and onions. I know it's sound, I know like it's so good. Yeah. If you don't like to say the word liverwurst, maybe you could get something similar, like brown schweiger. Does that sound better?
+
+[51:18] Sure. Yeah. But I'm going in two weeks, I'll bring you back in jar. Oh, really? Mm-hmm.
+
+[51:24] Nice. Uh, anyways. Uh the question is how to store them, because if you do go to Dietrich's, they have a vacuum packer there. So, and they don't understand that you don't want your whole house to smell like meat. I literally, I think it had to say this on air.
+
+[51:39] I said, So I went to go buy John something. I was going to a wedding, and they're like, they vacuum packed John's, because he got what's called ring bologna, which is a little bit softer, and it's like almost looks like a kielbasa. It's yeah, yeah, but it's thinner. Again, not no relation to baloney. And uh they're like, I was like, listen, I'm going to this hotel, I'm not sure if I'm gonna have refrigeration.
+
+[52:01] I didn't have I did end up having refrigeration. They're like, well, it'll keep if we vacuum pack it. That's a dollar extra. I'm like, a dollar extra. I was like, then vacuum pack my Lebanon and baloney, too.
+
+[52:09] They're like, why? That doesn't need to be vacuum packed. I was like, because my family doesn't want my whole car smelling like smoked meat for the next, you know, three days. And they're like, why not? I was like, hey, listen, this is not an argument I want to have with you folks right now.
+
+[52:23] You know what I mean? So they vacuum packed it for like a dollar uh a bag, which by the way, well worth it. Yeah. Well worth it. But it's also something that you can do when you get it home.
+
+[52:34] Vacuum pack it, uh, vacuum pack it, and you know, it can stay in your fridge and it won't, as long as it's a decent vacuum bag, even food savers, which is I think what they were using. It's a it's a it won't, you know, over smoke everything in your in your fridge. You can freeze it. I don't think it's I don't think it has enough liquids. I don't think it's gonna oxidized or go rancid in your freezer.
+
+[52:55] I've never tested it. But I've kept them in my fridge in a vacuum bag for a long time, months, and I've been fine. Uh also, please, please. D-Trix, when they do these, when they do these things, they they smoke them in a sock. You know, not a foot sock, but like a cloth sock.
+
+[53:13] Like a handbag, really, but you know what I mean? Like like a thin cotton muslin that is no longer recognizably cotton because of the smoke that's happened to it. Take off the sock, right? Cut a little bit off, remove the the sock before because like when you slice it with the sock on, which you can do, right? Little fibers are gonna get stuck to the edge of the baloney, and then you're serving someone this slice, and you have to make sure there's no no little fibers on it.
+
+[53:41] And the older I get, the harder it is for me to see these little fibers. Whereas if you just rip the sock off, you're good to go. You've all have you had the sock problem? Yeah, yeah. No, I know what you're talking about.
+
+[53:50] Yeah, yeah. They have the sock on theirs, so yeah. Yeah. Suck. Sock on.
+
+[53:55] No, that's like a future song. Sock on, sock off. Anyway, uh, we have another question in on the uh Patreon. What do you got? Yeah, from the Patreon on Discord.
+
+[54:07] Uh I'm gonna paraphrase a little bit. Uh Ian is a big fan of liquor intelligence, and they were excited also about Trumpal standard because they want, you know, modern techniques applied to that style of drink. But they want, you know, modern techniques applied to lernernum specifically they're thinking about rapid infusion clarification, they're wanting a phalernum style product that tastes fresher and is maybe um you know faster to make. So you sound like a like tastes fresher tastes fresher, fresh. I'm not familiar with flurnum.
+
+[54:55] So the product in uh the product being spoken of is Velvet Falernum, uh, which is uh also uh brought in and made uh I don't know it's made by, but it's brought in by the House Alpens Corporation, and it's one of their early products that they brought in and um relatively popular, and it's weird product. So a lot of people think of it because it's it's like a cordial, but it's actually not super acidic. Now, I didn't know this question was going to come in, so I was looking at it on my phone, and it's very hard to look at my Excel document with my old eyeballs on my phone because you know that it's like 800 lines long and like 50 lines across. So I can't look at it on my phone. So one of the numbers I'm not sure of.
+
+[55:39] I it was lower acid than I remember, but the acid number that I've written down on my piece of paper and tried to get off the phone was ridiculously low. But it's fundamentally a spiced syrup with a little bit of alcohol and uh a little bit of lime, lime and peel, right? So it's kind of like a low acid cordial with some booze in it. So obviously, you could wrap it infuse into the into the liquor component. That by the way, that that the product is 11% alcohol, right?
+
+[56:14] It's a I'll give you the exact numbers on the alcohol and the sugar. It's 54 uh, you know, 54 to it's basically 542 to 544. I got you know varying readings, grams per liter. That's not the same as bricks. I didn't have a chance to back calculate what the theoretical weight of sugar into the into the liquid would be.
+
+[56:38] But every liter has about 540 grams of uh sugar. Simple syrup is 615, just for knowledge, right? Uh one-to-one simple syrup. Even though it's 50% by weight, right, because it's so much denser, the grams per liter is higher than 500 in simple syrup. So it's 542 or 4 grams per liter, 11% alcohol by volume.
+
+[57:04] Here's the number that I don't really think is correct. I z 0.1, 2, 3% acidity, which seems ridiculously low, but I have to go re- retest it. But that's possible. But so using those numbers, you could just backtrack the math, do clarified lime, like boil it with uh the peel and the sugar and add the add the alcohol, uh, and you could get kind of pretty close. I don't know that you would need to use rapid infusion because I don't know what kind of benefit it would bring.
+
+[57:35] Rapid infusion usually works better in the alcohol. So you could you would have to wrap it infuse into the alcohol portion, but I'm not sure which one of the spices that are in it that you would want to necessarily wrap it as opposed to just making an infusion or putting it into the into the uh syrup base as you make it. But I don't know, is that a decent answer or no? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[57:57] Um and I'll try to look at, I'll tell Quinn next time I speak to him what the uh I'll try to see if I tested the acid. I might not have actually tested the acid. I'm cause I was may have been reading off of like uh you know one of the vermouth numbers, which is close by. It's like I say it's really hard to look at my phone. Um, but you could also make it however you want.
+
+[58:15] It's your recipe. You can do whatever you want. You you could even like quote. So they reference making it a little less weak, a little hairproof. Yeah.
+
+[58:25] Yeah. Well, I mean, like, I mean, the nice thing is is that if I ever publish it in the edition, and I can give you numbers. If you tell me a target, I can tell you what how to hit it, right? Uh it's not easily, it's not like straight one-to-one, like, you know, because as you add sugar to something, you also reduce the alcohol by volume. You increase the volume of it by adding the sugar.
+
+[58:47] Just so you know, you uh I this is off the top of my head, but it's it's the density of the like what you add in volume is about 0.6. Every gram of sugar adds about 0.6 or thereabouts milliliters to it. So you can figure out if you're adding a bunch of grams. You can do the math and figure out I can give you a better number next week. If if you someone reminds me, if Quinn puts something in, I can give you a better number for trying to guesstimate what the ABV and the sugar per liter will be given a starting ABV and dry sugar.
+
+[59:20] So if anybody cares about that garbage. You know what I mean? Sometimes, like like Jen's been reading like the you know, the updates, and she's like, Does anybody care about this crap? I'd be like, I'm like, I'm like, I don't know, like if I make it a little bit thicker and give Nastasi another copy, it'll keep it'll keep the casserole a little warmer, you know? You know what I mean?
+
+[59:44] So I don't know. Who knows? Uh all right, do we have any guests coming up next week, or we got another no tangent? No tangent? As far as I know, no tangent.
+
+[59:54] All right. Well, send us some questions, and if you don't want Nastasia's head to freaking explode, like, you know, maybe something not about the stuff that everyone wants me to kind of talk about. Cooking issues. That's crazy, Dave.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you alive on the Heart of Manhattan, Rocket Fellow Center, New York City New Stand Studios, joined only today in the studio with Joe Hazen. How you doing, Joe? I'm doing great, man. I'm sorry, Dave.
+
+[0:24] I can't allow that. See? Yeah. We we have no John today. He's feeling sick.
+
+[0:29] So uh, and for the for the time being, we have Nastasi the Hammer Lopez, although she's gonna have to duck out early. How are you doing, Stas? I'm okay. All right. And uh we got uh Jackie Molecules still under the weather, but with us, how you doing?
+
+[0:45] Yo, yo, I'm getting there. You know, you sound you sound like the fake computer voice that Joe uses. Like your real voice right now sounds like the fake computer voice. It's deepened, yeah. I don't know.
+
+[0:57] You're gonna keep it for your for your radio work. You're gonna like just stay sick forever. Yeah, that's good voiceover work. Yeah. I know I should do some voice acting this week.
+
+[1:05] Here's a we here's a weird here's a weird thing. You ready for it? I don't know if this is true or I don't know if this is true or false. Could be completely false, but you know how you take in helium and you you s you sound like all high, right? Like a not high high voice, right?
+
+[1:21] And you know, there's a there's a another gas you can suck in. I think it's uh what is it? Uh is it something hexa-flux? Yeah, sulfur hexafluoride, that's it. I knew it was a hexafluoride.
+
+[1:32] Sulfur hexafluoride is much denser than air, and you suck that in, and your voice sounds like you know, like you sound right now, Jack. But it doesn't actually change, I think your vocal cord. I looked it up, it surprised me. It like it's not doing what you think. It's basically just shifting the timbre of it, right?
+
+[1:50] Because your vocal cords are still your vocal cords. They're still the same length. They still have the same fundamentals, right? So anyway, so I I've always I've always wanted to try that uh hexafluoride junk. I think it'd be awesome.
+
+[2:01] Wouldn't it be fun? Let's get some. It would be fun. Think it's poisonous? I don't know.
+
+[2:06] I don't I uh I mean it's you said sulfur. I mean it's inert, but you just have to be careful because unlike helium, helium will naturally dissipate out of your lungs a lot faster. So you have to like really breathe in and out with the hexafluoride because it will actually settle kind of denser. You know, scientists are really pissed about the fact that we just use helium for party f uh favors. Because like once it goes like if you work in a scientific lab with helium, they spend like a bazillion dollars on uh recovery so that they get like 99% or more of the helium back that they use for their like because they need liquid helium for their like superconductor work and like all this other stuff for this like scientific research.
+
+[2:56] And helium leaves, goes out into the atmosphere, and whoop, leaves, leaves the atmosphere and goes. So once you use it in your stupid balloon, or to make your voice sound. Oh shh, that's even better. Yeah, now, yeah, the Hindenburg, the hydrogen. But you know what I mean?
+
+[3:18] Not a lot of people are blimping it up anymore. First of all, that was a dirigible, so frigible, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Dirigible is a great term in general, like you know, dirigible, but like it's got a an actual structure around which the envelope is wrapped versus a blimp, which is is the structure is given by the positive pressure of the gas within it. Hydrogen, fantastic lifting gas, right?
+
+[3:45] A little bit flammable. Yeah, just a little bit flammable. Uh as uh you know, you see the Hindenburg. By the way, don't do this, people. Don't do what I'm about to tell you.
+
+[3:52] I don't know if I've talked about this on air, but don't do it. Uh when I was in a sculpture uh when I was doing sculpture work in uh what's it called? Grad school, uh, I needed some balloons and I I couldn't afford helium, right? And they needed to float for an art project I was doing. So I bought a bunch of hydrogen because I could just get hydrogen from the school supplier without saying anything.
+
+[4:13] They weren't like, what do you need the hydrogen for? Because there's Columbia University, right? They're like, okay, hydrogen. And so they give me this big cylinder of hydrogen. And of course, you know, I'm I'm a welder, right?
+
+[4:24] So uh I had oxyacetylene torches, so I had a a bunch of oxygen cylinders setting around too, right? So we were filling up weather balloons, and we were, you know, with hydrogen, and we were popping them. We go boom, poo, poo. They make these like awesome thing, right? And then I'm like, hey, you know what?
+
+[4:43] What if what if I fill a balloon with two parts uh oxygen and one part hydrogen? So we filled up a balloon with like as close to the accurate water making rate, because you you light, you you put hydrogen gas and oxygen gas together, H2 and O2, in in two uh two H's to H2O, two two H's to one oxygen, right? And and you can just you know do it by molarity, you can weigh it. And then uh you light it, and in a perfect world, it makes water instantly and perfectly when you light it on fire, right? And oh my god, the boom that we got out of that weather balloon, entire building was like, what happened?
+
+[5:27] What do you do? So don't do this, folks. But I was just gonna ask you, what's the pressure feel like after it explodes? I mean, it was just so I don't even remember. I just was so loud.
+
+[5:29] I was so shocked. The only other time I was that shocked, the only two other times I was that shocked by something I I did was I did Coke and mentose, but instead of uh mentose, I used liquid nitrogen, right? And so when you when you coke and mentos to liquid nitrogen, if you wait too long, you get like an ice plug and it plugs up the bottle and the bottle explodes. And when you do that at like three or four in the morning in the lower east side, it's real loud and scary, right? And the other one was when I sp on purpose blew up a bottle with uh liquid nitrogen to prove how dangerous it was to seal liquid nitrogen, and I had it inside a two cambros and it shattered both cambros and the bottle and both cambros, and also got a call from the cops.
+
+[6:20] But don't mess around with pressurized things or explosive things. Just don't, you know what I mean? I'm not trained in that. That's not what I'm trained in. I'm trained in other things.
+
+[6:28] You know what I mean? Anyway, how the hell do we get on this? No tangent Tuesdays on cooking issues. Yeah, just a tangent? No, there has to be a reason we were talking about it.
+
+[6:38] Balloons, blimps. Oh, you were don't use helium. Don't waste helium because once it leaves the atmosphere, it's gone. I mean, gone, gone. And so, like, uh, you know, yeah, it's so crazy that we just use it for parties and for making our voice sound stupid.
+
+[6:51] But whatever. Whatever. It's gonna become more valuable than gold. Until they can figure out a way to not need helium for research, it eventually will be more valuable than gold. In fact, the Nazis used the Nazis used hydrogen because we had the strategic helium reserves at a time in the 30s.
+
+[7:10] And you know, the Nazis asked for it to buy it from us, and we were like, no. And then they used hydrogen. Yeah, good for us. Where where where does helium occur naturally beside I guess it's gas, so it's in the in the air. Yeah, I don't know what they purify from.
+
+[7:26] It it like it basically live on does it ever get captured underground? And I mean, I think it's like it just is like a component, probably in some other gas that we get, like natural gas. It's probably a contaminant. I used it one time, no, and then they refine it out and then they they use it. You know what I mean?
+
+[7:40] Uh and then yeah, it's a byproduct of uh it's a fusion byproduct, right? I mean, we could make it by nuking the whole earth. We could make a tiny quantity of it by nuking the entire earth, but probably a bad bad uh, you know. I guess that's true. If they could ever figure out fusion, we could have it.
+
+[7:57] You know what I mean? Anyways. I mean, there i there is small fusion reactors, but they don't produce more energy than they take currently. Yeah, we're not talking about energy, we're talking about making helium, but still they make nothing. They make nothing, nothing, nothing.
+
+[8:12] All right. Uh so what do we got? What do we got this week? We're we're since we're Johnless, what it what what do you guys have in the way of stuff? I know Nastasia has to hightail early.
+
+[8:19] What do you have in the way of stuff for this week, Sas? I have okay, I might have to do a party up in the Pacific Northwest near Seattle in the summer. And I wanted to know if any of our listeners have products or recommendations of products that are like local Pacific Northwest stuff that I could feature at the party. You know who you should get in touch with is our old friend Judy Ann Wu. I mean, she's still up there?
+
+[8:48] She yeah, yeah. She's in Portland, but she's all hooked into all of that. And we had remember this Portland, not Seattle, but we had the Olympia Provisions guy on. He's got good stuff, and they're all hooked into producers. Oh, cool.
+
+[8:59] Okay, well, yeah. Email me at Okay, that's not oh, them? Yeah, I was gonna say that. You know, I'm not gonna email anyone. Maybe Quinn can.
+
+[9:05] I don't know. No, no, no. But listen listeners, email me at I think it's N Lopez at Booker and X dot com. Wow, giving out your email. Wow.
+
+[9:15] I mean, it's not that hard. It's on our freaking website, Dave. Yeah. Do you remember when uh like the square that we used, yeah, was my actual telephone number? So people would call me like in the middle of the night.
+
+[9:27] No, no, no, no, no, no. No, it was when I went on a vacation or something, and I was like, if you have any questions, you know, call Dave. Yeah, no, no, no. I was like, what the heck? What's going on?
+
+[9:39] Yeah. And that's when radio show listeners would email me the questions for the show. So they got an automatic your phone number. Sweet. Sweet.
+
+[9:48] I love when artists do that. They put their phone number on the back of a CD or something like that. Well, who's the famous rapper who was like, I'm right here, come get me? And then someone shot him because he had money on him. I just remember Chris McGlover had his phone number on his CD.
+
+[10:01] Crispin Glover? Yes. From in from Living Color? No, Crispin Glover. Oh, wait, which one was the which one?
+
+[10:06] That's Savannah. Back to the future. Marty McFly. Yeah, yeah. We'd call when he came out with his first book, he had a phone number in the back.
+
+[10:13] And we used to call it, we used to prank calls answer machine all the time, leave messages. It's hilarious. But he's also a famous wingding, right? He's a weirdo. Yeah.
+
+[10:21] Oh, yeah. Didn't he watch Ruben and Ed, you'll see how far you get. Didn't he get kicked off of uh Letterman once? Like for being completely like off his tree. Yeah, yeah, he's out of his tree.
+
+[10:32] Yeah. Uh hey, Stas, you ready for this? So for my uh for my early birthday present, Jen got me tickets to go see, get this people, Glenn Gary Glenn Ross on Broadway. Oh my god. Wait, who's in it?
+
+[10:44] This is not a food related, but you're not gonna believe it. So fresh off of his Academy Award garbage, Kieran Culkin was uh that would play the Al Pacino character. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Ready for it?
+
+[10:59] The the person who played uh the uh uh Jack Lemon character was Bob Odinkirk. Oh cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, from better from Better Call Saul, and to keep it on a Better Call Saul uh thing, uh Michael McKean, also from Spinal Tap. And my favorite thing, uh obviously he's in is Planes, Trains, and Automobiles.
+
+[11:18] He's the cop who stops uh Steve Martin and John Candy's like uh you think this is in there. You uh think this vehicle is uh safe to uh drive on public highways? Yes. Yes, I do. That was my favorite.
+
+[11:30] We watch that every summer. And then um, I mean, and uh and and the person who stole the show, Stas, I think you're a fan, I'm not sure. Bill Burr just kicked the crap out of his part. He just kicked. He just kicked, and it's his first thing on Broadway.
+
+[11:45] He just obliterated the part. Like literally every minute Bill Burr was on stage, we were all like, oh my god. First of all, the man can drop F bombs. Like I drop I can drop F bombs, but Bill Burr, oh my god. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
+
+[12:01] He loves to bake. We should have him on the show. Just call it Bill Burr Bakes. Yes. Yeah.
+
+[12:10] Oh my god. Well, we we know he's in, we know I mean, we know he's in New York now. So, you know, you're good at this, Stas. Set it up. Uh, because like I have to say, and and by the way, we'll uh, I'll do this.
+
+[12:20] You ready, folks? You ready for it? One time only non-family friendly show if Bill Burr comes on. He can say whatever. He can say whatever he likes.
+
+[12:29] Oh, I'm gonna love that. Yeah. Yeah. It's you know, we have no FCC. This is the internet.
+
+[12:36] We can do whatever we want. But I'm gonna say, for him, not even for Jim Leahy do I get, do I not, you know, take away the family. But for Bill Burr, we can go family on friendly. And no buzzers, right? No, no, no.
+
+[12:47] Unless you want to, unless you want as a joke. Let's make it happen. Unless you want as a joke to have a buzzer version that is family friendly. That's just you, you know, welcome to cooking issues, meaning. Because you know, if he starts cursing, I'm gonna start cursing.
+
+[13:03] Stas is gonna start cursing. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[13:07] It'll be it'll be. Well, here's the thing, right? Uh on uh about the play. So the play is a mammoth play. And uh, by the way, for those of you that wonder, the Alec Baldwin part, which is the part Stas and I quote the most, is not in the play.
+
+[13:27] They wrote that just just for the movie. But um the play, they kept all the crazy racist stuff in it. It was knots. You know what I mean? It was like, oh my god, it was so good though.
+
+[13:38] So good. It's a lot shorter than I thought. For the amount of money it costs, it was a short play. Is it equally racist across all races? No.
+
+[13:45] Oh no, it's heavier on one than another. Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, well, it reflects like a certain group's.
+
+[13:52] It reflects like a certain group of salespeople's hatred of Indians. I'll just say what it is. They're very racist against uh Indians, like like, you know, from India, Indians, uh, in it. Um, yeah. Uh, and it's like, but it's not, they're not it's like goes back to an earlier, earlier era.
+
+[14:11] They're not co-signing the racism. They're not, in other words, like the play doesn't portray them as good people. Is it like Peter Sellers? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like the party.
+
+[14:19] No, they literally say racist things about Indian people, right? But in the way that like uh Bad News Bears was incredibly like Walter Mathow's character in Bad News Bears was in was a racist, right? He was brilliant. Yeah, and so but they're portraying a racist, which is different from from promulgating racist ideas and thoughts. See, there's a different things.
+
+[14:42] Portraying a racist is they're different things. But anyway, I was surprised that they, you know. I was surprised that those lines are still there, because I know in the movie, some of it was moderated. You know, anyways. I think some of it was kept in, some of it was uh moderated.
+
+[14:58] But uh, yeah, good show. But the reason I bring it up is not because uh I wanted to see that thing for a long time, but to talk about pre-theater. So, like, what is the pro so it used to be that like whenever Jen and I would go to a show, we would just try to tough it through, but by the end, Jen's like, I'm not hungry anymore, it's too late. And then I haven't eaten, she hasn't eaten, everyone's miserable. And then by the time we get home and go to sleep, the night's ruined no matter how good the play is.
+
+[15:24] You guys with me? Yeah, with you. Yeah. So I'm just looking at the camera right now, like how lonely you look right now. And I'm lonely man.
+
+[15:32] No, John. I'm a lonely man. So uh, so the question is like what's a good pre-tater? Because pre-theater, you have to leave work earlier than any of us are really done with work and we go, but you need to get in and out. So I've had two pre-taters.
+
+[15:43] Yesterday, I went to a Sichuan place. Get this. 42nd Street between 8th and 9th. So for those of you that have never been to this block, this block, if you said to me, hey Dave, you're gonna have a meal you enjoy on 42nd Street between 8th and 9th Avenu, I would say, What are you cracked? What are you stupid?
+
+[16:05] What are you? An idiot? Because there is no way. That is like hell on earth because literally no one is there because they want to be there. Not one single human is on that block that isn't trying to get away from that block as much as possible.
+
+[16:21] It's not the block with the movie theaters. It's not the block with you can't even really get into Port Authority very easily on that block. So you can't even get out of it. It's just an a useless sack of crap of a block. Stas, you with me on this, right?
+
+[16:35] Yeah, but 46th Street has some stuff. Yeah, but this is 42nd Street. So I'm saying, if so if someone said we're gonna go to a restaurant, you're like, great, where is it? And you're like you're like, it's like right on 42nd Street across the street from Port Authority, or between 8th and 9th, you'd be like, no, thanks, right? But this place was a BYOB, $15 Corkage fee, like Sichuan joint.
+
+[16:56] And what I liked about it, the food was good enough, right? Food was good enough. Uh and two top with two top was I think like like 113, including the Corkage fee and all that. So it's like not much. But the food was really good, but they had the goofiest service plates.
+
+[17:11] It's called Sky Pavilion. They had the goofiest service plates I've ever seen in my life. And I have to say, I loved it. One, like we had this like delicious like duck with like glutinous rice that was fried, like glutinous rice coating on top of the duck fried, and it came in a donkey cart. It came in a ceramic donkey cart, like a big donkey cart.
+
+[17:30] Another person gets a like a giant birdcage with like, you know, beef intestines in it. It was like, yeah. Yeah. So, like, you know, it's a good call. You guys got any good pre-theater situations?
+
+[17:41] It's like art. Yeah. What do they do in LA for a show? What do you guys do for a show in LA? Well, Nastasia just like goes to either like try to get something after, you try to get before.
+
+[17:44] Do you don't have a go-to? Uh I do. I go to Kazunori, the hand roll spot. There are a bunch of locations. Jack ruined my night doing that.
+
+[18:00] Why? Wow. What happened? Oh my God. She doesn't want to bring this up because she's wrong.
+
+[18:06] No. I'm not wrong. She wanted to go to an event, and she said we should eat before the event, and I chose a hand roll spot, which is very quick. And I ordered a bunch of hand rolls, and she said, that's too many. Make it less.
+
+[18:22] So I said, fine, okay. I got like two less hand rolls. And uh we go to this thing she wants to go to, and it had ended already. Wait, wait, wait. So so in other words, you could have had infinity hand rolls or no hand rolls.
+
+[18:34] Correct. So it's her fault that I didn't have more hand rolls, is really how you know, but on the other hand, you could have had no hand rolls, and then you would have seen the thing. The mistake was to not just go straight to the event. Which had nothing to do with the decision to get hand rolls. That was her saying we should get food before the event.
+
+[18:50] Correct. Correct. So once you have made the decision, you've already lost. First of all, how do you not know what so you s just an error was made here? It feels like it feels like there was a world in which Nastasia would have been correct if she was correct about when the actual event was happening.
+
+[19:11] So in other words, like it's hard for me to come down on one side or the other when it's clear that there is a world given what she knew at that time where she was correct, even though she ended up being wrong. You with me on this? But getting food wasn't my decision. I was just tagging along with her on this night. Okay, you also gotta understand that Nastasia and I are triggered by pre-event food idiocy.
+
+[19:36] Now since John's not here, we could talk about him like a dog, but like Nasta Nastasia buys like John and I, Billy Joel tickets. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What? But the bigger thing is what happened to one of the tickets. Oh god.
+
+[19:52] Well, we've told this, we'll tell it again. So Nastasia and John Nastasia and John and I, who are at the time were we were Booker and Dax at that time. And I had finally gotten Nastasia. Remember, like way long ago, Nastasia had tickets to see Joel at the garden. By the way, can you tell your Joel story?
+
+[20:11] Joe. Oh wow. Stas, get this story. Get this story. And then we'll go back to it.
+
+[20:17] Get this story. That was a sad story. Um, so we're on the Hampton East. We're in East Hampton, and we're we'll go and go and go to the pier to get ice cream. And um uh we're walking eating ice cream, walking on in the sun, it's lovely right there on the water, and uh, hear this flapping like a bird.
+
+[20:35] So obviously, it's a bird, sounds like it's like trapped. So I investigate through the bushes and see the bird was trying to get through the fence. Or I don't know how it got there. Maybe it was dragged by another animal, but it was stuck in between the metal fence, like the diamond shape, and its wing was pretty busted and bloody, and he's snapping, and I'm trying to help him. But I had a good positioning, and then uh it just happens to be that it's Billy Joel's house that I'm pulling this trying to help this bird.
+
+[21:03] He yells, get off my property, and I'm like, it was like, what the I was uh no, but then you were like, I'm trying to help a bird. Trying to help a bird, and he was sucking his. Yeah, yeah. He was a real get out. I want to say more words than that, but yeah, exactly.
+
+[21:17] He was get out. Yeah. And this is after he was sober, too, right? Yeah, he was sober. He was like uh three years ago.
+
+[21:23] Yeah, but then you you went, came back, and Bird was still there, and then Bird was still there, and then like crap on I got him out. So anyway, he can be he can be a bit of a D-bag even when he's not on the sauce. Let's put it that way. But great songs. So anyway, so Nastasia buys tickets a billion years ago.
+
+[21:39] We're at a at the time, her worst nightmare. We're slinging non-alcoholic drinks at a vegan juice joint. Swear to God, right? And uh, and like a raw vegan juice joint. And in the middle of the tick, in the middle of the event, right?
+
+[22:01] Nastashi's just like, ah! I turn around like, What I'm supposed to be at Billy Joel right now. And she had missed the Billy Joel that she had bought the tickets to because somehow it wasn't on her calendar that they were the same night. And then for years, she was like, she was like, I don't deserve to go to Billy Joel. I don't deserve it.
+
+[22:21] Finally, finally, in 2020, in February of 2020, I convinced Nastasia after years, right, that she deserves to see Billy Joel. She deserves it. She's like, okay, Dave, you know what? Fine. We'll go to Billy Joel.
+
+[22:36] We get Billy Joel tickets, boom, pandemic. All the tickets canceled, everything ruined, boom, boom. So then she finally gets tickets to the very first concert at the garden because he has a residency after he comes back from the pandemic. She gets three tickets. We go, she puts one of them on her radiator in uh in Connecticut.
+
+[22:56] And her house was a leaky, leaky, leaky mess, right on the Long Island Sound. And a torrential rain comes through, leaks straight through her what? I thought it was toilet. Oh, it's toilet. Oh man.
+
+[23:09] So a toilet breaks and poop water runs straight through it and melts one of the tickets. You can't read it like at all. Like barely read it. You could tell it's a ticket. So Nastasia and I were like, we gotta get to the garden.
+
+[23:24] So we go get some drinks at the Holland Bar, which was where I was a local, and then you know, clothes. And then we go to a halal cart, and this is what this is why we're bringing up how why we're triggered by it. Nastassi and I get a grab and go thing from the halal cart. And freaking John. We have to deal with the toilet water ticket.
+
+[23:41] We have to talk to the MSG, like, hey, fix this ticket, it's real. Let's get so we got a grab and go. Yeah. John. He gets it, he gets it over the rice in the big styro container.
+
+[23:51] The big styro container with the freaking lamb and the rice and all of that crap. And the fork. Yeah. And we're like, what the hell are you doing? You can't just shove that in your mouth and go into the freaking garden.
+
+[24:05] You know what I mean? Because we got to deal with these damn tickets. So first of all, he's sitting there like trying to eat it. We're staring holes through his head, right? Because he was not eating this stuff fast enough.
+
+[24:13] Like, like literally, like if my eyes could have bored a hole through a human being, like it would be. But then we get into the garden, he's finished his bowl. His ticket is pristine, and he's like, All right, guys, I'll see you inside. And we're like, what? So he goes, and we're in line with the saltiest bunch of folk you've ever toilet problems too.
+
+[24:36] Well, I'm like, no, well, we're trying to get the ticket changed, which we finally did. We made it just before they started. But we were we were basically threatening people's lives. The guy behind us in line was like, if all of you people, I hope you all die. You're all a bunch of carpet baggers.
+
+[24:50] He looks literally then looks at Nastasia and I says, Nah, you two, you guys are all right. Remember that. Oh man. Because he could he could tell, A, that we were from here, and B, we were as bent as he was. You know what I mean?
+
+[25:06] So that's why I think we get in there, and there's John in his seat with like popcorn deer, you know, ready to go. And Dave and I like running. It was almost called. Yeah. Well, you know what?
+
+[25:17] It's mean to talk about him when he's not here to defend himself. Usually we save that for Peter Peter Kim. Yeah, if you're feeling well, uh, call in, John. Uh all right. All right.
+
+[25:28] All right. Thank you, Nastasia. See you next week. All right, cool. All right, uh, Quinn, what do you got?
+
+[25:32] More on the food on the food zone. I know you get anxious when we're not talking about the food. Although we did talk about food. We talked about halal carts, we talked about hand rolls. By the way, you can eat a hand roll so quickly.
+
+[25:42] Am I right? Oh my god, yeah. I mean, it is a hand food. You know what I mean? Yeah, and if it's it's two more, that's like, come on, it's like nothing.
+
+[25:50] Also that's why I chose this place. Uh great idea. Handroll's a great pre-show spot. Yeah. Thank you, Joe.
+
+[25:58] Also, also, like, if it pushes come to shove, Nastasi could have been like, eat it in the car, throw it away. I don't care. You know what I mean? Like, whatever. And then or we can't get food, and food was her idea, you know.
+
+[26:09] Did she eat any? Um, she just, yeah, she had like two, and then we're just gonna be able to do that. She had two. The two that you didn't get, she ate. Yeah.
+
+[26:17] Yeah. Yeah. But you know, if you forced her to go to the show without food when she thought of food, she wouldn't have had a good time and she would have blamed you for that. There's no winning. You guys were automatically losing in this.
+
+[26:26] There's no, there's no one. Yeah, yeah. No winning. All right, Quinny Queen. Queen and Queen, what do you got?
+
+[26:32] Uh oh, by the way, hold second. Call your questions in too 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507. If you're on the Patreon and Quinn, why don't you tell them why they should be on the Patreon and what they might get or not get or advantages? Well, they should uh join the Patreon to one, get uh the show either live or early, depending on your uh schedule.
+
+[26:55] You get uh priority question answers on the show. You get uh deals with uh Kitchen Arts and Letters and other, you know, people and companies we partner with, and you get to join the Discord, which is also just uh a great uh community chat room filled with lots of uh like-minded people. Hey, you know what's something else I'd like to extend off of that? Oh, we have a caller? Uh caller, you're on the air.
+
+[27:29] Yeah, hi guys. Uh, this is Patrick calling from Brooklyn. How are you guys doing? All right, how you doing? Good.
+
+[27:34] Hey, I've got a cheese question that's sort of a grading cheese question that's sort of an A and B. Okay. One is that the supermarket, allegedly super fancy supermarket near me, has Parmesan that I don't like enough to purchase, but they have Grana Padano, which I don't have I have no real feelings about. Um, and so I'm curious if there are any recipes that are designed specifically for Grana Padano pasta recipes, rather than Parmesan or Pecorino Romano, or if it's just a in-between gray area, not in between. It's sort of a Parmesan like thing that I should think of that way.
+
+[28:21] No, I wouldn't think of it that way. Yeah, well, before you get to B, right? Grana Padano, right, is very similar cheese to Parmigiano Reggiano. It's just that they're not part of the consortium. So either they're made outside of the area where the consortium is, or they don't want to pay to be in the consortio tutelo Parmigiano Reggiano, right?
+
+[28:42] So it's like they can be very similar. So you can have Grana Padanos that are like, you know, every bit as good as the best Parmigiano, right? But just they're not part of the consortium. This one is not. So that's the other.
+
+[28:56] So they are similar cheeses. So I don't know, there are, I'm sure, but I don't know. Maybe Joe does a s a recipe that's specifically, or maybe Quinn or Jack, I don't know, a specific recipe for that calls out Grana Padano as opposed to Parmigiano. But but Romano is an entirely different, entirely different animal. Literally, literally different animal.
+
+[29:20] You know. But uh and like if as far as I am concerned, not even like the same use case because like uh typically Romano's have uh and there's very good quality Romanos out there now as opposed to before when it was mostly trash. Uh but they supermarket Romano I'm I'm I'm I'm okay with in higher. So that is its own sort of silo. Right.
+
+[29:46] But I I I feel I'm spoiled by the Paolo, you know, yeah, because it's quality. Parmesan is that human stuff you get. It's just not never as good. So I I I find myself missing it, missing it in recipes that are, you know, for design for Parmesan. Right.
+
+[30:01] Period. But it it's so far the ground padana seems to be like that's not that either. So it's like, well, maybe I should just not buy it, but it seems this also seemed like a well depends on what you're using it for, right? Like I think I think like like mid-range, low-range parmigiano is fine in a salad dressing. You know what I mean?
+
+[30:21] Yeah. I mean this I'm gonna ask part B then, because it's sort of related. I mean it is related, is that I love the texture of the grated cheese that's in the the shaker at the pizzeria. Like it's kind of like spherical, even though it has anti-clumping, it kind of clumps. Is there any way to get that texture grating at home?
+
+[30:42] Or is it all a commercial process that I should just be using using the commercial stuff, period, because that's the that that's what it is. Because a dream it's something that tastes as good as as let's say the Paolo Parmesan, or you know, top-end pepperinous texture. Uh-uh, I I have thoughts. Okay. But regardless of where it goes from here, unless you know exactly how that stuff is made, Quinn, put it on the list of things to research for the next week.
+
+[31:12] You know, the the shakeable stuff. I can't remember whether I've ever attempted to mimic those. They're lower water content. Um anyway, but go ahead. Okay, my first thought for what to try.
+
+[31:27] I mean, when people take a very hard cheese and just use a a blender or a food processor instead of a grater, you're definitely get a pebbly rounded sort of ground product as opposed to like fluffy shreds with a microplane. And then from there, my first instinct to try would be like a little bit of milk powder and a little bit of maltodextrin just to like dry it up a little bit, you know? Yeah. Well blenders are tough. I mean like uh usually, you know, if you just use the really the if you use the section of the box grater that looks like a street fighting weapon, you know, uh then like that makes the round, you know, the one that looks like someone just took a nail and just went straight through the metal, like that makes a round shape typically larger than the ones that are in the shaker.
+
+[32:28] Uh you know, then maybe if you had to you put an anti-caking agent in you could then maybe blitz it a little more to get it to to break up. I mean liquid nitrogen would do it obviously, but you know if you've that that's not how they do it. So like I'd have to look and and and see what they what they do. But I'm gonna I will research how they make them industrially. They're not I don't believe they're compounded from cheese powders.
+
+[32:51] I believe that they are made from cheese that is just broken down into particles and probably as Quinn says doped with maltodextrin and maybe milk powder I don't know is milk powder in them because any time you look at the ingredients but the texture the texture of those like especially on pizza is what I want. I was just like curious if you can just yeah have a really good piece of cheese without obliterating it. Yeah you can get that texture with with the qual you know the flavor of the better better cheese. I mean it's stupid for food. I believe it's very low moisture too.
+
+[33:19] I think part of that texture is like the extreme lack of moisture. You know, um that's sort of where I was going with the milk powder as well. I don't again I don't know what milk powder is in like the the store bought stuff. But I'm just thinking it was like yeah like a generic sort of fitting protein that'll sort of bind to a little bit of the the moisture. Yeah.
+
+[33:42] Don't know. Don't know. Uh but you know but you know who would know the grand you know who would know is Wiley because this is this is the kind of crap that Wiley deals with all the time. He's like, how can I take this thing that I grew up eating and then make a better version. I'm sure he's worked on it.
+
+[33:57] If it's it's not at stretch so he hasn't served it, but I guarantee you this is some crap he's worked on. If not, if I put the idea in his head, maybe he'll work on it and figure it out for the rest of us I certainly don't have time to actually do the research on it right now. You know what I mean? I mean physical research of actually cooking do you shake cheese onto a fresh clam pie or not? No.
+
+[34:19] Uh no I do but I recommend it. I use a I use an absurd amount of crushed red pepper at every such that like you know I've sneak crushed red pepper into me in with me when I go to stretch Wiley's place and now he just brings out the Cisco like giant container of crushed red which is how I buy it at home for me when I show up because like I eat an unconscionable amount of crushed red pepper on pizza. The thing if you haven't you haven't tried it's excellent is the Utica the Utica grind of red pepper which is a finer a finer grind and it really really covers a pizza perfectly. So that's that's that should be on your list of of things to try. Maybe maybe we can get the Utica is you the greater Utica you know uh uh chamber of commerce to send a send a b uh uh a jar of that to the cooking issue headquarters crazy.
+
+[35:11] I never even heard of that. My grandpa way back in like depression era lived in Utica. So like I feel like that's a joke. That's a joke. It's on the up and up.
+
+[35:21] Oh. Um yeah, no, you should definitely try it. Alright. I've never heard of I mean I've heard of like uh Hercomer Diamonds, which are close to Utica, right? I've never heard of Hercomer Hercomer grind peppers.
+
+[35:31] I need to get these. And Uda Uda Utica Greens are the classic, the classic Central New York uh uh Italian green dish, too. So there's you know, there's there's there's various wonders of cuisine in Utica. But definitely if you're into excessive amounts of red pepper. Yeah, Avico Br I'm looking at it right now.
+
+[35:48] Avico A V I C O brand, Utica. Utica crushed Utica Grind Crushed Red Pepper, 1928. So I don't know if that's its invention or not, but highly recommend it. I'm totally so this is like the best thing anyone's told me in a long time. A new version of crushed red pepper that I can have, and it's from my home state where my where my grandpa used to live.
+
+[36:09] I mean, you know, I mean he was he was kind of a bastard, but still, still, you know what I mean? Obtain up obtain this obtain this now. Awesome. Well, thanks for your help. All right, thank you.
+
+[36:20] All right. And if we get any updates from Wiley, I'll uh I'll let you know. Uh wait. I I I had thoughts about the the ground upana as well. Okay.
+
+[36:30] So they could do that. What are we talking about before that? You can you someone remember by the time you're done, we'll c we'll get back to it. Okay. Yeah, keep talking.
+
+[36:39] And by the time you get back to it, we'll get back to it. Oh. I was thinking, like, for you know, swapping between Grown Up Padano and parm, aren't they for a finisher? They're pretty interchangeable. And as a like mean cheese, in my experience, grown up Padano, you know, on average, is like a little less savory and like slightly more bitter, I would say.
+
+[37:10] No, no, no, because it all depends on exactly who made it and whatnot. So, like, like most of the time, bitterness in cheese comes from uh lipid breakdown stuff. So, in these cheeses, I don't think that they're adding like the ends. So, one of the things you get in like uh an American made quote unquote parmesan or like like Romano is they jack the cheese with uh lip lipid, you know, lipid uh breakdown enzymes and protease enzymes, they jack them with enzymes. So, like I remember being in uh DiPalo's once, which is where you know he the caller was mentioning.
+
+[37:45] I'm talking to Lou, the owner, and he just takes a bite of this cheese, he's like, ah, too many enzymes because it has this like bitter, bitter, bitter note. But you know, like a lot of the grana padano that you know they sell at DiPalos is quite sweet. The interesting thing about Parma, the interesting thing that Dipalo's does, uh you know, which is kind of thing what the caller is pining for is like you know, Parmigiano, all these cheeses that are made, you know, with milk from cows and not just like try to make a hundred percent the same all the time, have seasonal variations. And so one of the things that uh DiPalos does is sells the different Parmigianos based on the season. So you come in, he's like, Okay, we have the winter parmesan, so the winter parmesan, they're eating silage versus like a spring where they're eating new grasses versus summer, where they're eating like you know, more mature grasses, and the cheeses change.
+
+[38:37] So the color can change. The he has certain that are from different um sets, different kinds of cows because some of the herds have been like you know made into different things. So they have a connoisseur ship there of Parmigianos that makes it not just the commodity cheese. To put it concisely, the way that uh what happened when I tried to go visit the factories on my honeymoon in 1995 and missed the bus by a couple of hours, and the guy was very felt very bad for me that I didn't get to go tour the cheese. Although probably my wife was happy.
+
+[39:10] She didn't look happy. She pretended that she wanted to go on the cheese tour with me. And I talked to him about uh Parmigiano in the uh in the in the US, and he was you know, he doesn't know the palace because he's from Parma. He goes, he goes, he goes, you know, in the I forget that way in the United States. He goes, in the United States, it's uh Moto Caro no buono.
+
+[39:29] He goes here, Moto Caro, molto buono. Because there's different there's different grades of Parmigiano within within itself. It's not it's not a commodity. I mean, even though it's been made a commodity by its name, by the fact that you have to reach reach a certain quality level to be in the consortium, it's not it's not all the same. Does that make sense?
+
+[39:51] Yeah, it does. It's like in Ireland, they have what is it? No mo no moe may. So in May time, they don't mow the grass. Oh, really?
+
+[39:59] Okay. They don't mow the grass, and so it's very particular. The the taste of the butter is very different uh that yields out from the from the May month because of the bramble and all the the the bitter weeds that are growing that are left over that might should not be eaten. Yeah, it's actually, it's a very popular thing to do. Oh man, now I want some of this no mo butter.
+
+[40:19] No moi, yeah. Carry gold. I think it's uh it's I think it's it's a it's a special carry gold that comes out right after May time. So I'll be looking for it in a couple of months. Yep.
+
+[40:30] Oh man. That did I tell you currently my favorite butter? My current favorite butter is Italian and not even cultured. It's the Beppi Ocella, uh Occello Cello. Uh uh Beppi.
+
+[40:41] The same guy that makes one of my favorite cheeses, Testum, is like makes this butter, Italian butter. It's great. It's so good. Gotta go get it. I like it even better than like the fancy French like barat and all of those that are also very good.
+
+[40:55] I like the butter with the sardines in it. Wait, what? Who makes butter with sardines in it? Uh you make your own, you mean no no no. I went to a restaurant and it's like, yeah, everyone makes this butter.
+
+[41:03] I was like, what do you think? Butter and sardines? Yeah, it's like this slight little taste. Oh, maize sardines or anchovies. Oh, anchovies.
+
+[41:09] Anchovies. Anchovy butter, delicious. Sorry, that's what I meant. Anchovy butter, delicious. Long fish, wrong kind of I love anchovies.
+
+[41:15] You know what? I'll say something very quick. There are we have uh my girlfriend and I have uh these two friends, and um we uh she reconnected with them and then learned they said, Wait a minute, your boyfriend's Jack from Cooking Issues, like they're huge cooking issues fans. And we're like, Oh, that's that's funny. Um and just to shout them out, we we had them over once for a movie night, and they brought homemade anchovy butter, which is just such a great thing to bring.
+
+[41:38] That's good. Did you have nice bread? Yeah, as a house. Yeah, oh yeah. Yeah, nice bread.
+
+[41:44] The answer to many guys did they leave the leftovers for you? Or did they take it? There was none. Oh yeah, but you can't take home. If you listen, people it was just a little bit of etiquette coming from you know, when you show up at someone's house, don't bring anything you're not willing to leave the entirety of.
+
+[41:59] It sounds like a sign photo. Yeah, yes, it's the babka. Oh, I didn't ever saw that episode. So they yeah, they come, they bring the bok and the popcorn. She takes it home and Elaine's lander, they check.
+
+[42:08] The good the guy the ho the host is like, Were you take in the babka you brought me? That's crazy. That's insane. That's insane. That's terrible.
+
+[42:16] Terrible person. Now there may be an exception to this. Well. Tell me if I'm wrong. All right.
+
+[42:22] Let's say let's say I wanted to get the gluten free very like a very, very special bottle of like rare whiskey or meth cal or something that was extremely expensive, but you wanted to bring it just to give some people a taste. No, then you put it in a smaller bottle and bring the smaller bottle. Oh, okay. I I like that. All right.
+
+[42:38] Yeah. That's true. Yeah. Worst presentation. But I mean, yeah.
+
+[42:42] Yeah, but that's how it works. Either it's a gift. It's also really bad etiquette. If if if I bring something to your house, unless I say to you, hey, listen, save this for later. Don't open this now.
+
+[42:55] Save this for later, right? Which is a gracious thing to tell somebody, right? Then they can open it if they want, if they want to be. But like, this is not for tonight, this is for later. Unless they say that, you kind of have to open it.
+
+[43:05] You know what I mean? Someone can't hand you a nice like bottle of liquor and you're like, Oh, thanks. And then put it in your back bar and then not open it and offer people a taste. It's crazy. That's the worst.
+
+[43:14] It's the worst. Yeah, it's opening my bottle. Come on. Or our bottle. Yeah.
+
+[43:17] Your bottle. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. Uh yeah.
+
+[43:20] I've done the dinner parties where my my drink I brought didn't even get poured the entire night, just stays in their fridge or there on their bar. Yeah. No, no, no, the hell with that. And you can't go in like, hey, I'm gonna open up my drink that I brought. Yeah.
+
+[43:32] Right, right, right. No, no, no. Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. And then, yeah, so like the only like the way this works, if the host wants to be super gracious and there's a lot of stuff left, they can be like, Would anyone like to take some of this?
+
+[43:42] I'm not gonna eat all of it. Would anyone like to take some of this? That's my wife, dude. My wife, when people come over to the house and she's like, I'm like, I'm like, oh my god, the food was amazing. It was so good.
+
+[43:52] I can't wait for leftovers. But you know what? The leftovers go back. She's like, please take it. My husband's gonna eat it.
+
+[43:57] Oh, well, that's not the way to say it, but yeah. Oh, I can't stand that much. I told you guys about the Thanksgiving I had where I my brother got up in the middle of the night and took all the leftovers and got on the train and left. All of the leftovers? I mean, like so many of them.
+
+[44:15] Open the fridges next day. What the hell happened? Where's the ham? What the hell? Because like to me, Thanksgiving's only left.
+
+[44:22] I mean, like, Thanksgiving the day is about the family, and Thanksgiving the season is about the leftovers. You know what I mean? That's why I always make two Thanksgivings. Always. Um Phaedrus' toe writes in in a recent cooking issues, Dave discusses using a super fancy uh Shisa Umaboshi that are ridiculously expensive, made by a Japanese husband-wife team and used in the salt air drink at Bar Contra.
+
+[44:44] Which Umaboshi am I describing? Well, guess what, Toe? I texted, I don't know. This is one of those things where Jeremiah, you know, the chef there, part of my partner, along with Fabulous, he is like, You want to use Umiboshi? Here's some umiboshi.
+
+[45:02] Hands it to me. We make it, we love it. I then find out that it's unobtainium. I I've never, I that's not true. I took I took some jars with me to uh what's it called?
+
+[45:12] To uh LA, but I didn't take a picture of it because I'm a dummy, right? So I text Jeremiah this morning, and I'm like, yo, who is it? Nothing. I think he doesn't want anyone to know because honestly, like the entire supply of it is spoken for. So if he gets back to me and will tell me for public distribution, what it is, but it's one of those things where it's like when we bought that we bought a liquor from Fourth Have.
+
+[45:37] Uh, we bought this liquor called uh four, which was their fourth kind of herbal like liqueur that we used in a drink called the Candoran Orange. And we tasted it, and we're like, we like it, we're gonna use it. He's like, there's not that much. So we bought it all. And it's the same kind of thing with these umiboshi.
+
+[45:50] I think we buy a good percentage of their output. So I don't know if Jeremiah will share it. I will share it if I if I come across it. Um not to get in the way of questions, but should I talk about what I actually cooked? Oh, sure.
+
+[46:07] Uh sure. Let me just get this one more. Let me get one more question. Let me get one more question and then you talk about we're sure sure. Alex M writes in my stepdaughter is a synchronized swimmer uh with thick curly synchronized swimming is pretty awesome.
+
+[46:20] It's crazy skill. Anyway, uh with thick curly hair. For competitions, get this. I did not know this. They gel their hair with gelatin, I guess to keep it so it's not like floating around and stuff.
+
+[46:32] Uh it takes an extraordinary amount of hot water to wash this out after a competition. Is there an ingredient or enzyme she could use to dissolve the gelatin more easily without harming uh her hair, their hair, would grapefruit juice work? No, grapefruit juice isn't gonna do squat because you know you can gel grapefruit juice with gelatin. Grapefruit juice, the acidity in grapefruit juice and the sugar is just gonna make her or make them sticky and and acidic, right? Might bleach the hair a little bit if that's what you want, because there's a little bit of acid in it, not as much as lemon juice, like they used to do, you know, back in California in the days.
+
+[47:04] But I called, I called my friend uh Jack Shram, who is, you know, one of the owners of Solid Wiggles, the Jell O Company. He doesn't know of anything in in particular. But what I would say is is that, you know, if you could tolerate a a bath, right, is gelatin will melt in hot water. Like anything like really above body temperature. So like if you if you get water that's like 110 Fahrenheit or something like this, it's well above the temperature at which gelatin will eventually melt.
+
+[47:29] So like I would get in the warmest bath that you can tolerate and just soak the hair for a long time and the gelatin will will start to melt out. It's gonna take a lot longer to just kind of try to rip it out of your hair by putting a shower on it, uh, although that should eventually melt it. There is an enzyme. Hot sauna? What?
+
+[47:55] A hot sauna. Oh, hey, that's not a bad. If you have one, right? Imagine you'll be like carry. It's off your hair, it's all over your body.
+
+[48:01] It just melts down over your whole body. Uh but um there's an enzyme that does eat uh gelatin. I've used it. In fact, you your question made me because I'm gonna try to get Monar's pantry to carry it because this enzyme Coralase, Coralase is freaking amazing nuts. It just eats gelatin.
+
+[48:22] And the interesting thing about this enzyme is that if you've ever tried to uh you know break apart proteins with things like papayan or these other kind of protease enzymes, they do it, they tenderize meat, but uh they leave bitter peptides behind. Coralase doesn't, it doesn't make bitter peptides. So I want to try to get it for I want to try to get Monarch's pantry to get it. So thanks for reminding me. But I would not put that on human skin.
+
+[48:43] That's not a human skin situation. Coralase. Coralase. It's not a human skin. Well, you've heard about that concrete that they're you they're building using to build buildings here in the city, is um because it it it there's uh enzyme on the concrete that eats the pollution.
+
+[48:56] Really? Yeah, the the uh one of the diesel, the diesel um clothing store has it. I mean, it's a beautiful building. But you look at the concrete, it's like smooth and like no staining or anything like that. Huh.
+
+[49:07] But they said that it leaves something there. I wonder if it's the same. Well, this enzyme is like, if I ever get a hold of it again, what we used to do is is that we would um we would do a traditional like clarification on a consume. And then we would hit it with coralase. And because in a traditional consummate clair clarification as opposed to a freeze thaw clarification, it it will uh the gelatin's still in the consumer.
+
+[49:36] So consumer will gel, as they say. You know what I mean? Uh it'll turn into an aspic, which is a terrible word for a food. Aspick. Anyway, uh you hit it with coral ace and it doesn't turn bitter, and you can just boil it down to nothing to this incredibly rich like liquid.
+
+[49:51] And so like oh I love it. I want it. Gilet. Gilet. Gilet.
+
+[49:56] No, or gile. Oh, okay. Not like gilet, like the like a vest. No, no, no, like angle, like gilet. I love the word gilet.
+
+[50:03] Uh all right, Quinn, what do you got, man? I was thinking, do you think it would help if they switched to fish gelatin? Isn't that more temperature sensitive? I don't know. Uh fish gelatins, what, isn't glass?
+
+[50:20] I don't know. They need something that's a hard gel because they want it to stay, they want it to stay gelled on their hair and on their body for the entire time they're in a pool. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
+
+[50:35] They also like remember the melt, like the how long it takes to melt and the melt temperature is going to be dependent on the concentration. Sounds like they're making a very stiff, stiff, stiff gel. When I was a kid, they used to, this is even worse. Uh, like some of the some of the punk rock kids, they used to spike their hair with Elmer's glue. They would mix Elmer's glue and water and spike their hair up with it.
+
+[50:56] Remember that? We used to use egg whites. Really? Yep. Oh man, how crunchy did that get crunchy, huh?
+
+[50:59] Crunchy and the dude uh the heat didn't wasn't good to it. Uh, because it gets that smell? Uh yeah. No, yeah. Uh Ivan oh wait, did you start talking about what your cooking is or no?
+
+[51:14] Did you like it? Well, yeah. Um we we we fired up our gas pizza oven. We have the uh uni brand, and we did flatbread, and we did a local water buffalo uh Florentine steak. So a three inch thick cornerhouse.
+
+[51:39] Oh nice. Did you do uh how how'd you cook it? Uh we did, you know, uh the Nova 11, 55 Celsius for like, you know, many hours, and then we like finished it in the pizza oven to see her. Was it too high? Was that too high?
+
+[51:59] Was 55 too high? Um, I think we could have been faster with the searing. The steak may have been a little too big. It was a little awkward to get into the pizza oven. Uh huh.
+
+[52:17] But overall the flavor was was very nice. Yeah, I would do, I would always do, especially on something like I mean, something very lean, like um, like the the strip was surprisingly marbled. Oh, all right. But even so, I would do probably 55 for not that long and then drop it and do the do the soak at like 52. I would probably do 54 or 55 and then drop it to 52 for the long term soak and then 50 and then and then sear from 50.
+
+[52:44] And then you're not going to get any overcooked problems in the oven. How long was it in the pizza oven? Did you already say in the pizza oven? Yeah. I mean, it's hard to say.
+
+[52:55] Okay, we were, you know, taking it and out to like try and flip it, manipulate it. Yeah. But uh, yeah, that that needs some work, but yeah, overall it was good. Full spindle and mutilate. Um Z bet.
+
+[53:09] Oh, by the way, uh, I did uh I did burgers and uh French fries using Snake River Farm Meat because I was sent that on my birthday, and my little mini hood is still a champ. I just we should start making plans for little mini hoods so people can uh make them for themselves. Dave, what's at the very top of your document? I don't know. Why don't you just tell me so I don't have to like flip around?
+
+[53:32] Right now, the top of my document says Kieran Culk and Bob Odinkirk and Bill Burr. What should I be saying? Spins all sale. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, let's do that.
+
+[53:42] Uh I mean get these questions. Let me get these questions, then we'll do the spincil sale. All right. Z Banks wrote in this is related to your pizza oven. I bought a Sears All Pro a few months back, but I'm struggling to figure out how to think about uh when to use it.
+
+[53:54] Originally I expected it to be a drop-in replacement for a regular gas torch or a hot grill. However, when I try searing a salmon or tuna steak with the Searz all, it tends to be cooked through by the time I get a nice crust. Um I've made sure to pat the food dry, preheat the unit, and keep it as close as possible to the food. Uh I am uh I am using the BTS 8090 and map gas, which is the Mr. Mr.
+
+[54:16] Torch. Okay, okay, okay. So here's the thing. It's n definitely not a drop-in for a torch for certain things. In fact, torch, I think is really terrible for a lot of things.
+
+[54:27] Torch works fine on something like creme brulee to get that crispy uh sugar because it doesn't provide an off-tast. But as we've kind of shown, or you know, uh Arielle showed, you know, when I had her do some um, you know, GC mass spec work, is that when you put a torch directly on meat, it makes these things that taste kind of like combustion. They're nasty, right? They kind of nasty taste on meat and any of these kind of like high high protein things. So that's why we develop the Searsol.
+
+[54:58] So the Searsol is meant to take the torch and spread it out, right? So it's turning a torch into a broiler. So it's supposed to act like a broiler, like a pretty high-intensity broiler, but much smaller, right? So in general, I'm never cooking things from zero with it, right? It's meant to just be something like that you hit at the end to give like a nice crust or sear surface on it, right?
+
+[55:24] Sears all, sears things, doesn't cook things. If you have to put it over a piece of tuna or a piece of steak uh so long, you should be able to get like a super crust on on uh on an entire face of a ribeye in under two minutes. So, like, like, you know what I mean? So, like you, especially with the pro. So, it really shouldn't be cooking hardly any depth through it at all.
+
+[55:51] In fact, we used to take the Searsol, and we could put a crust on foie gras, pat not for pâté de foie gras without melting the underlying pate. That's how fast you can be. You have to get really close. What I'm guessing is happening is that the torch that you're using has a knob on it that allows you to turn it up and down. You want the thing to be as screaming as possible, right?
+
+[56:13] So you want to turn the gas up. Especially the pro, if you don't put enough gas into it, it it kind of doesn't get hot enough, and then you're gonna have a hot spot in the center and the edges aren't gonna be hot. So let us know if that's the problem. And if not, you know, you talk to Quinn, he can he can hook you up. But I think that's probably what's going on.
+
+[56:31] Um we got a question. These are two related questions, and we'll talk about the sale on the way out, Quinn, all right. We got uh Ivan said, I regularly make lime and champagne acids following the recipes on liquid intelligence minus the succinic acid minor pantry shipping cost to Canada pretty sheep. Not for sustainic acid, dude. It only weighs like a tenth of a it's like solar, get the succinic acid.
+
+[56:52] It's a small package. Anyway, I've noticed after a while they develop white plumes. Do you have any idea what these may be? How to avoid them if they can be harmful? Hopefully uh you can see the photo.
+
+[57:01] I did. Listen, like it's some sort of mold or yeast. I get the same thing. If you store straight acids out for a long time in hot weather or you know, in a kitchen, they they can develop that. I don't know what there are certain yeasts that can tolerate, for instance, brewer's yeast even can tolerate very acidic environments.
+
+[57:19] They grow very, very slowly, right? Some of them can actually metabolize citric acid. The issue is is there has to be some sort of nitrogen contamination because all of these things need some nitrogen source to grow. So I don't know what it is, but it has happened to me as well. Store it in the fridge and it will not happen.
+
+[57:34] Um, and by the way, they want to thank on an unrelated note whoever added crown pastries in Scarborough, Ontario to the cooking issues map. I went last Saturday and the Syrian pastries were fantastic. So, whoever added it, thank you. Uh Rock Baker wants to know, and this is gonna go into Sazan Slayer's question. Uh, can we get the final word on ginger clarification?
+
+[57:54] Should I use magnesium carbonate and spin versus progressively taller and narrowly rack, narrower racking procedures? So we're talking about is how to clarify ginger, because ginger has some starch in it. I originally said magnesium carbonate is a way to go. I don't really use magnesium carbonate now. Uh it's just it's too much of a heartache and it turns things basic, right?
+
+[58:13] Also, the magnesium carbonate that I was using wasn't straight magnesium carbonate. It was magnesium uh carbon light magnesium carbonate, which is a mixture of that and magnesium oxide, but it's problematic. I can come back and talk about it more on the next uh episode. So instead, what I do is I do ginger, uh and and I'll I'll explain now how I do it because I had a question. Any chance Dave can share the specs for the Firefly Mule.
+
+[58:35] A relative had it and loved it. Uh he's coming to uh to visit. I was hoping to make some. Here, okay. First thing you need to make is what we call zinc.
+
+[58:42] And for that, you take three parts galangle, 15 parts turmeric, 20 parts ginger. You juice them in a slow juicer. We use the coovings. You then take that juice, you add to that an equal uh volume of uh vodka, right? 40, 40 proof, 40% vodka.
+
+[58:58] You add it like that, then you add a half a percent of citric acid. You need that acid or it won't clarify. And then four milliliters per liter of pectin X enzyme, and it'll drop out. Everything will drop. So you put it in a tall, thin, round container, round, and then you keep pouring it off and then let it settle.
+
+[59:15] And as it goes, you should be able to get like 75, 80% of your liquid back if you let it settle in the fridge over. We do for like several days, we'll keep racking it. Then the recipe is for every one, this makes three liters of mule. For every 1,000 uh mils, every liter of zinc, it's 328 uh mils of gin. We use Ford's, 295 of one-to-one simple syrup, these are all milliliters, 181 of lime acid or clarified lime juice, 207 of polydextrose that's polydextrose one to one so fift you know 50 percent by weight polydextrose 50 percent weight water we get the polydextrose you can get it from from minor's pantry or tate and lyle 966 water and 2.75 of 20% saline solution and that's how you make and of course chill like a mother and and carbonate if you can't get the poly D you could up the sugar a little bit but then it's gonna be sweeter so I recommend getting the poly D.
+
+[1:00:08] All right uh we are putting the Sears all 2.0 on sale uh what are we gonna sell it for Quinn uh the plan is uh 850 as of Wednesday the 26th of March and it's a very uh limited time sale we're basically just making inventory space yeah we have a new shipment we have a new shipment on the water we have we have a new shipment on the water that's gonna cost more because it's like slightly different and we and we're gonna have to pay the new tariffs on it but we're trying to clear out our current inventory so go buy your spins all 2.0 now we'll talk more about it on the next uh episode I guess cooking issues
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arald, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan, Rocket Four Center, New York City, Newstair Studios. No John today, because uh John's in Belgium, kicking it in Belgium, getting me some fancy, fancy mustard. But I do have Joe Hazen rocking the panels. What's up?
+
+[0:27] Well shaking. I'm excited for that mustard. Yeah, must and must have listed. And over there on the West Coast, we got Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing?
+
+[0:38] I'm good. Good. Uh got Jackie Molecules. We gotta we gotta get molecular early in the show because uh he's only gonna be here for half of it. So what's up?
+
+[0:47] What's up, uh, Mr. Lemolecule? I'm doing alright. Yeah, you feeling better? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[0:55] It uh turns out that uh uh I'm gonna end up needing my wisdom teeth taken out. That's been one of the culprits here of like this mystery sinus ear thing that I've been going through. Okay, listen. Listen, listen. Get the good painkillers.
+
+[1:15] They're gonna say they only do it that way only do it that way. The way you thought the way you got it done is insane. They only give you a painkillers. That's just not true. I don't know, that's just not the case.
+
+[1:25] I I went when I went to an No, no, no, no. I got half of my wisdom teeth taken out 20 years ago, and I got half taken out two years ago. Or three years ago, right before the pandemic. And five years ago. And it's like uh yeah, no, it's still the situation that they're like, well, I could give you the good stuff, but it's gonna be an extra 600 bucks.
+
+[1:46] You're like, what? Yeah. Yeah. Pay it. That's what I'm saying.
+
+[1:51] Pay it. Pay it. Here's what I'm gonna tell you right now. Pay it. The other thing they're gonna do is they're gonna try to convince you to do it in stages.
+
+[2:01] Let's do two now and two later. Why? In case you have a bad reaction. Well what cares? Yeah, who cares?
+
+[2:08] Get them all out. Because you could have a bad reaction both times. There's only two left. Okay, all right. Whatever.
+
+[2:14] Anyway. Yeah. Miserable though. You do not want to be sitting there watching them rip those things out, man. It's just not how it goes.
+
+[2:23] I will pay, I will pay $600 anytime I go to the doctors if I can be like put out with good drugs. You know? If I were rich. If I were super rich, yeah. Well, if I was super rich, like like my idea, right?
+
+[2:36] Well, like if you're super rich, I guess you f fry fly private, but anesthesia airways is the money idea, right? Wow. You know, that is a money idea. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
+
+[2:48] You get on. You put me out for like half of the things I have to do in life, you know. Yeah, yeah. And they're and they're like, well, but what if there's a what if there's an accident? No.
+
+[2:57] You know what I mean? No, I'll sign a waiver. How about that? You know what I mean? Please.
+
+[3:02] Yeah. Yeah. You could have you could have Prince and Michael Jackson's face on the outside as the ambassadors. Yeah. Get this though, right?
+
+[3:10] Because like if you've if any of you have ever been lucky enough to have a colonoscopy, you know what I mean? Like when you wake up, like, even though you're only out for a little bit, you feel great. Imagine if you landed and you you didn't have to go through the feelings of being in that tube for hours and hours and hours, and instead you woke up incredibly refreshed. You know what I mean? Unbelievable.
+
+[3:32] And they could stack you like cordwood because you're out. You know what I mean? Anyway, you'd have plenty of room for your carry on. Yeah. Just stack you up.
+
+[3:41] Who cares? You know what I mean? Uh anyways. Quinn in the upper left, what's up? Hey, I'm good.
+
+[3:49] Yeah? Nice. Nice. Uh yeah, wisdom teeth. The whole thing.
+
+[3:54] Hmm. How old are you now, Jack? Uh 39. Yeah. I was like, they tried to convince you when you're really young to get your wisdom teeth out.
+
+[4:03] Did they do this to you? They did, but mine were straight, so it was never like needed. You know, it was like we could, but you don't have to. And I was like, well, if I don't have to, then I won't. Ding ding ding ding ding.
+
+[4:15] It just causes so many problems later. Yeah, right. Well, no, but that's the thing. You it's gonna be problems getting it out, right? So they're like, if you don't get them out now and go through this horrible thing right now, what what's gonna happen?
+
+[4:26] Well, maybe it'll maybe you'll need to take them out later. You're like, okay, later then. You know what I mean? Great. Easy choice.
+
+[4:34] Easy choice. If the choice is, oh, you may have to have them out later. Yeah, yeah. No, preemptive wisdom teeth taken out, please. Use car salespeople.
+
+[4:44] No offense to use car salespeople. Anyway, uh what's up? What do you guys got this week? What's good? Ugh I've been sick, so I've been miserably, you know, trying to just be healthy and eat salads and drink smoothies.
+
+[5:01] I don't know. See, that was your mistake. That was your mistake. Trying to trying to trying to like salad your way out of feeling bad. Like you like, Jack, you can't take away like years of abuse, and then you know, five days, you're like, I'm gonna switch this out in the salad facilities and it's gonna make it all better.
+
+[5:20] Yeah, you know. That's what I tried to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that's invalid. Yeah.
+
+[5:26] First of all, there's no such thing as oh shoot. There's no such thing as detoxing. That's not a thing. That's that's that's fake. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[5:36] I want to start, I want to start a bunch of spas for retoxing, right? If people actually believe that they can somehow detox. This is kind of like goes back to people. Used to think that, like, you know, I don't know, that your intestines were some kind of crazy cave system where like, you know, evil sentient food beasties could like hide out forever, and you needed to like clean them out via like like weird, like this is like 1800s, even even beforehand, crazy food nonsense, and it still kind of lives till today with this idea that somehow your body isn't constantly processing whatever you're eating, and that you can quote unquote detox. You know what I mean?
+
+[6:14] Please. Like, you know, what's the basis of this? Do you know what I'm saying? I'm not saying like obviously there's certain poisons, certain things you can eat to take a while to leave your body. There are things that you are physiologically dependent on that take several days to work their way out.
+
+[6:27] I'm thinking caffeine headaches, alcohol, etc. etc. But in general, I mean, it's not like you know, it's not like yeah, like Nastasia says, you can undo a billion years of uh of you know being a human being by eating salad, you know what I mean? Anyway, also retox is a is a great name for like uh energy drink, yeah. Retox or like a metal band.
+
+[6:51] You know what I mean? Or literally a liquor brand. Well, we can get it, we can do the band and the liquor brand at the same time. But like what kind? Not like Norwegian death metal.
+
+[7:03] Does anyone actually like Norwegian death metal? Like anybody? In small doses, I guess. Like how small? Like a whole song?
+
+[7:13] Huh? Yeah. Like one song. Like one song, yeah. Okay.
+
+[7:19] I saw Godfresh as a new record out. Yeah. Yeah. Sounded pretty good. Half of the actual Norwegian death metal people are in jail for murdering people, right?
+
+[7:29] That's legit. Or not, right? Like anyway. Or not. But uh right.
+
+[7:37] So, you know, retalks up. You know, I'm a firm believer, and I have no data. So let me just say I have no data to back up what I'm about to say. So it is probably completely false. However, I firmly believe that if you eat things that make you feel good about being alive, that you will probably end up having less stress and a better day, and then overall be more healthy.
+
+[7:59] You know what I'm saying? I like that theory. Yeah. Could be false, but it's what I'm gonna go with. You know what I mean?
+
+[8:07] Uh anyway. All right. Well, so if you didn't eat, what about you, Stas? What do you what's on the food front for Nastasia the Hammer Lopez? Oh, I don't think I ate anywhere special.
+
+[8:19] Oh yeah? What's your current yeah, I'm gonna cook dinner tonight and I have 15 minutes and I don't want to worry about it? Um, Whole Foods sells these like pre-seasoned chicken things, and then I do frozen broccoli and a bag of rice that's already been cooked. Okay, hold up. How far is that?
+
+[8:41] What's the sad sad sad schmadd? Like in what format are they the beaten-up looking pieces of chicken that look kind of like whitish that are in a plastic container? Yes. And when you reheat those, because I'm assuming you're reheating them, although listen, I'm sure those things are fine in a cob salad. Cods cob salad, speaking of you know, got gods, that's a god salad right there.
+
+[9:03] That's a god level salad, the cob salad. I'm sure they're fine in a cob salad. Um do they reheat okay or do they get dry and nasty? Oh, wait, no, these are raw, these are raw chicken that's been pre-seasoned. Uh are they is it slightly acidic or just salt-based, salt sugar base?
+
+[9:25] Uh it's there's a bunch of different flavors, but mostly salt-based. Yeah. Right. So they're not mushy. They haven't gotten like that acid mush.
+
+[9:33] Oh no. Oh no, no, no. No, that's fine. What's wrong with that? I think frozen broccoli is fine.
+
+[9:39] I tell you what, it's better than a frozen Brussels sprout. Frozen Brussels sprouts are maybe they're listening there. You can use a frozen Brussels sprout in scenarios where you're not eating the Brussels sprout by itself if you're chumming it up into a pasta, let's say, right? Or something like this. But like they just don't have the right texture.
+
+[9:58] Whereas like frozen broccoli, I feel can be fine. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I like it.
+
+[10:04] What else sucks frozen? Hmm. Uh I mean, the best frozen stuff is what? Corn and peas, right? Corn and peas.
+
+[10:15] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Peas are number one. Yeah.
+
+[10:18] Because like you can't get a good pea. Back, in fact, when I buy fresh peas, like half the time I'm like, oh yeah, fresh peas, and half the time I'm like, ugh, starch bombs, garbage. You know what I mean? Like a frozen pea. Yeah.
+
+[10:30] It's a good. Although, is anyone on earth good at having them not be wrinkly? They come out, you cook 'em, they're perfect, and then they cool and they get all wrinkly, and you're like, how can I not do this? What is wrong with me? Like I'm I'm fifty-four now.
+
+[10:42] I just turned 54, and Miley made me a chicken pot pie, and then my niece Ellery carved a an incredibly accurate, hand carved a piece of uh pastry that says days fifty-four. And she put the apostrophe in, and I was like, nice use. I like the apostrophe. She's like, I wasn't gonna do it, but my dad Wiley forced me to. I was like, Well, good call, Dad.
+
+[11:01] The apostrophe I noticed things like this, the apostrophe. By the way, Miley makes a really good chicken pot pie. And chicken pot pie is a good product. If you eat chicken, chicken pot pie is a great product. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[11:14] She's also made turkey pot pie. Good product. Great product. I would have to say I would enjoy possibly a pork a pork pot pie. I've never had one.
+
+[11:24] I know a beef pot pie would be good. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is a pot pie is a good product. Uh wait, what are we talking about though? We were talking about frozen things that were good. What else is good?
+
+[11:32] What's bad? I mean, a lot of fruit is bad if you care about the texture. Yeah. If you want the fruit to be raw, it's garbage. But if you're gonna cook it anyway, then you know, it's often better to buy frozen than to buy trash fresh.
+
+[11:49] You know what I mean? Cheaper, better, more consistent, like the six million dollar man. Better, stronger, faster. But the um what else is terrible? But they are terrible fresh.
+
+[12:01] I always keep frozen blueberries because I mix them into my pancakes. That's my probably my largest use case for frozen fruit, other than at the bar. Hmm. Lima's aren't very good. A fresh lima is so good, and a frozen lime uh starts to get that like pasty, that pasty action.
+
+[12:19] I don't know, I have to think about it. I have to think about it. But we we can all agree frozen broccoli. So it's frozen broccoli, the seasoned chicken strips. Are they tenders or are they cut from thigh meat or breast or what?
+
+[12:31] Unfortunately, they're breast. Yeah. Alright. You know what? I actually cooked chicken breast yesterday, last night.
+
+[12:39] Last night I I did uh my uh chicken salting boca. You know, I haven't made actual veal salting boca in probably two and a half decades, because I just make it exclusively with chicken now. But it's actually a really good quick dinner. You know what I mean? Like it's so fast.
+
+[12:57] You just beat the hell out of it. You just take your chicken, you cut it out. I like thigh, but my wife actually prefers me to do the breast. You cut it out thin, salt, a little bit of sugar, pepper, both sides, plastic wrap over it, beat the hell out of it till it's flat as flat as uh anything. Then uh sage, prosciutto, flour, that thing.
+
+[13:17] I use a little meat glue just to keep the prosciutto stuck on it. You know what I mean? Because I I used to use toothpicks, I hate the toothpicks. I hate toothpicks. Hate them.
+
+[13:27] In the meat, hate it. Also, it stops it from touching the pan properly. Then you butter it up and then you know, little lemon, a little what are you know, deglaze it with uh, you know, a little uh sweet wine or whatever. Nice. Good uh weekday, good weekday meal.
+
+[13:41] That's what I had last night. Anyway, so chicken, rice, you use the pre-cooked rice, brown, white, unflavored. The one in the back. Like the jab, man. It depends, you know, I switch it up.
+
+[13:53] But they make pre-cooked frozen white rice. No, no, no. They do pre pre-cooked, non-frozen in the aisle rice. What? In a bag.
+
+[14:04] And it's already cooked. Yeah. How the hell do they do that? Yeah, I have that a lot with um they've got Korean brands of like cups of precooked rice. Those are quite good actually.
+
+[14:18] But how do they make it? I'm gonna have to do some research. I don't know how I don't know how they're able to have it in a bag, shelf stable, but there must be something in the bag that's not creating botulism. Well, uh uh be serious. Uh besides microwave.
+
+[14:35] There's no and and they're not hard and they re f they re-therm nice and they get fluffy as though they were rice, or are they like coated with oil so it's always like semi-fried, like free-flowing stuff. No. Not oil, but also not doesn't get fluffy. It's just it's just fine. You know, like you should really try it.
+
+[14:54] It's really fine. Fine. Huh. All right. I mean, like, I thank goodness that I have a rice.
+
+[15:03] It's like it's like a short grain rice. That's supposed to be like a little sticky anyways. So it's it's good. Okay. Doesn't.
+
+[15:13] I'm not gonna uh I'm not gonna poo poo something I know nothing about. You know what I mean? I gotta test it out. I don't really go to Whole Foods anymore though. Anyway, I'll try.
+
+[15:22] I'll go. I'm sure they have it uh at my local whatever Mart. Uh what about you, Quinn? What do you what have you been cooking uh this last week? Oh boy, uh I I've got uh I've got multiple things.
+
+[15:35] Uh I've I got out one of my experimental uh guanchales. So one of my recent Guanchali experiments, my usual sort of seasoning base, and then I actually cured it in a vacuum bag with a little bit of sage essential oil. Okay, why I looked up, there is a there is well, I want sage flavor. Okay. Not to be, but why not just use sage?
+
+[16:12] Why the essential oil? Well again, I find that when I've done spices or even spice extracts on the surface of something at least like like a guanchole, that the flavor never really penetrates the protein. There's also a well known phenomenon of uh in vacuum bags of spice burn where like uh it's not actually burned, but what happens is like the whole leaves will like make an imprint and then put like a weird color mark on the piece of meat where the spice was, and they'll also like leave kind of weird bitter notes right there where the contact point was. You know what I mean? But uh Yeah.
+
+[16:55] So again, even like Essential Oils make me nervous 'cause they don't taste like the actual thing. You know what I mean? Because they are the oil soluble components only. You know what I mean? But I mean, if you like it, you like it.
+
+[17:07] Did you like it? Well again, that's also the experiment because my my thinking was well if the it's a flavor I like, you know, in theory if I let it cure for several weeks before the actual like drying phase, that some of those you know, fat based compounds should diffuse into the like fat you don't think so? I mean, some, right? But think about it. Think about this way.
+
+[17:38] It's a strong substance. Think about this way. So when you cure, uh, when you uh dry age a piece of meat from for weeks, weeks, weeks, right? All of the fat, most of the oxidation is happening on the outside. And when you trim it away, like a lot of that oxidation doesn't penetrate, right?
+
+[17:56] So it's like there is some penetration, but you know, diffusion of large molecules through a solid, you know, fat medium is relatively slow, right? So it depends on how long you're gonna like handle. This is this is math that someone can do. I mean, like, I can't do it, but someone can look at the you know, size of the molecules, figure out roughly what the what the diffusion coefficient of it is, figure out roughly what the you know what it is you're trying to put it through, and figure out like how long it would take to penetrate. But my guess is a long time.
+
+[18:33] You know what I'm saying? Well, it it didn't work. Well, well, if you want to see, really, right, what you should do is get a block of meat, then do whatever you're gonna do, and then cut like with a very sharp knife, like six very sharp knives, so you never use the same knife again, cut off all the sides of it so that you have only a cube in the center of the meat and taste that tell me what it tastes like. You know what I mean? Like that's so there's uh Greg Blonder whose uh blog Genuine Ideas, he used to do penetration tests, but on larger molecules like salt, and there, you know, there he would use indicators to go through, but nah, I don't know, you'd have to figure out an indicator to see how fast the stuff diffuses through.
+
+[19:16] But this is knowable stuff. People work on cured meats all the time. Like Fidel Toldre used to be the world's grandmaster of cured meat like research articles. Anyway, I digress, but you enjoyed the taste of it or no? Did it taste like sage?
+
+[19:32] Yeah, it tasted good. Really good. And we were able to try there's a new local dried pasta brand that we tried their pasta. It was really good. What what shape?
+
+[19:46] What was good about it? Uh macaroni. Like bent macaroni, like macaroni with a hole in it. Like it was like sort of like elbows? Like average like uh like a like no, not elbows, but like sort of like a slightly elongated rigged to me.
+
+[20:06] Okay. All right. I mean, if you just say macaroni to the average person, they're thinking elbows. Anyways, uh, I don't really like using essential oils. If you like it, you like I don't I've never had I've never had a result with essential oil where I've been like, oh, thank God.
+
+[20:22] Now, uh, I know that like, for instance, Mike Capoferi over at uh Thunderbolt and Night on Earth, shout out to them. Like uh, they like, and a lot of people like to use things like orange essential oils or citrus essential oils instead of expressing peels because A, you use by the way, in a professional bar situation, we go through a boat ton, a boat ton of citrus. So you have to find uses for the solids, the actual fruit, because I go through so many peels. In fact, that's why I started, you know, I came up with acid adjusting because I needed a use for all of the freaking oranges that we had when we were, you know, using orange twists, right? So it is, you know, quote unquote, not quote unquote, it is more like uh cost effective and sustainable to buy the oranges you want for juice and use those peels for something, but then just spray the citrus oil on.
+
+[21:16] But somehow I I need to do a side by side with Mike. I was too busy during service to do it. But the next time I'm in LA, Stas, let's go over and do a side-by-side blind. We'll blindfold ourselves. We'll go to we'll go to uh Thunderbolt and Night on Earth and we'll have somebody make the same cocktail with the spritz and with the peel, and uh the you know, three of us or four of us, Jack, you come over, you know, five of us, whatever it is.
+
+[21:37] We can do a side-by-side taste and see what we think. You think it's a good idea? Yeah, also for everybody, uh Dave might be in LA at the end of April. Maybe maybe get your LA on. And this time, if we do do a pop-up with Mike, we will be sure, and I apologize to make more product because we sold out in like 22 seconds.
+
+[22:01] And Nastasia, who said she was gonna be there early and actually helped me set up, didn't show up until we were actually out of products. That's what happened last time. And then gave me the stink eye probably because they didn't want to tell me, but probably based on last week's show, because like Nastasi wanted to get something to eat, and then you know, Jack ordered an extra hand roll and they couldn't eat it in time to get to the to the bar. Probably what happened. Just saying.
+
+[22:26] Wow. I wish I could tell the real story of what happened. Also, you can bring food into that joint because they don't have a freaking. Who did who who wanted to go? That's a creative.
+
+[22:40] I'm I have to defend my honor on this one. Which on the hand roll or on the other one? No, I wanted to go on time. Okay. But what prevented you?
+
+[22:50] I I have no Nastasphia wanting food. Yeah. But she could have had food the whole day. P. S.
+
+[22:58] She had the whole day to get food. We had this one thing we were gonna go to. She's like, I'm not gonna go all the way over there. I'm not gonna get, I'm not gonna wear what I'm wearing now, then go eat, then go home, then get dressed. Just get dressed in the during the day.
+
+[23:13] Go eat near the freaking bar. No, no, Dave, it was this. It was driving and drinking here, right? So like it was it was all all of the the getting to it. What it was is that you weren't willing, you weren't willing to just be out earlier.
+
+[23:31] You're like, that's gonna be like 45 minutes when I'm gonna be not at my house and I don't know what I'm gonna do. Nope. I won't do it. And so like you like you wouldn't just like get ready to go earlier and Uber over at like four. Here's the honest truth.
+
+[23:47] Okay. You were you're only here for like 24 hours, and I was like, hey Dave, let's go eat, right? Or something. Let's go hang out. And I was like, you don't need they like night on earth and Thunderbolt, they prep everything, they have their own style.
+
+[24:01] You don't need to be there three hours before. Like, why don't you and I hang out? You need to go take to be there. And plus they want to say hello, they want you to do pre-shift, all these things. They don't though, because I don't think that you like bartenders that fly in, they like show up right when the event starts and they go.
+
+[24:20] Like, so I didn't want to sit around while you're testing and wait wait, based on what based on what? How long have you known me? 17 years. When when have we ever, with the stuff that we do, when have we ever in 17 years? When have we ever been able to just walk into a place and do something?
+
+[24:43] You know, Mike, by this time has like he perfects everything for you. Yeah, but we still need to get together, get on the same page and taste it all and figure out what's going on when there's time to adjust it. If it wasn't Mike, it would be a day early. I would have to go in a day early, and like half the stuff wouldn't work. Like, you know, with Mike, I only have to go in like an hour and a half early, check it all up, and then I could have walked out and got something to eat, but I couldn't, because you weren't there.
+
+[25:12] Also, Mike wanted to get something to eat. But Mike was running around. I know there's one guy who I know ate with Mike that day. You know who it was? Me.
+
+[25:24] Because I was with Mike. Yeah. We went to this some place where some a bunch of people got murdered, but they had like good food. They had good food, but there's a little bit of a stink on the place because like a bunch of people got murdered in the restaurant. I can't remember the name of it.
+
+[25:36] And they and they gluten and they glutinified his food twice. They like, he was like, I can't have gluten anywhere near my food. And they put it, they they made it, it was delicious, super garlicky, and then they just like dumped a huge pile of pitas on top of his food. So he's like, now I can't eat any of it. So he like had that bagged, and and then as a sorry, they gave him a cake made with gluten.
+
+[25:59] Anyway. The murder restaurant. It's a murder restaurant. Well, I guess they wanted to keep it going. You know what I mean?
+
+[26:05] Like they had some murders there, and then they wanted to keep it going. Oh, speaking of uh it's not murder the chefs. Yeah, exactly. Speaking of uh murder, P.S. I just did you find out this?
+
+[26:14] I'm sure Nastasia doesn't trust it anyway, but do you hear the 23andMe is going bankrupt, and so like no one knows who's gonna own your your data about your about your genes? I can make a guess who might own it. Delete it. Wow. Delete it now.
+
+[26:32] Delete. It's all going to green ones. Oh baby. No, man. I don't know.
+
+[26:29] I don't want to get into it. I don't want to get into it. I don't want to do it. All right. Um how the heck did we get on this?
+
+[26:42] From sage? I don't know. That was good. From Sage? All right.
+
+[26:45] What else, Quinn? You said that you did your guanchali, you enjoyed it. By the way, by the way, I'm gonna say when I buy Guan Chale, Guan Chale for for those of you that cured pig face, all right? Let's just be blunt about it. Cheek cheek.
+
+[27:00] What part of the body is the cheek on, Quinn? Yeah, remember that. I've done it. It's cured pig face. Okay, okay.
+
+[27:06] And what do you call that? Face face chiale. Face it chiale. Anyway, uh, but there are a bunch of different styles of it, right? And uh, but they roughly, when I've had them, they either break into like a wetter style or a very dry style.
+
+[27:23] And like the commercial available one in the United States is uh the most easily available one in New York City, anyway, is from a company called Volpe, which is like a big kind of company that makes like a bunch of cured meat products. And they make a wetter style, and I have to say I prefer the wetter style. I prefer a wetter, like balled up guanchali to a flatter, drier guan chale. That's just me though. Because what I like to do is like almost cook a pizza and then throw it on and just kind of flash it in the on the top of the pizza or in a pasta.
+
+[27:55] I mean, guanchali is delicious, straight up delicious, but you barely need to cook that stuff when it's wet. Anyway, so which style do you make? The wet or the dry? Don't say in between. You have to choose one.
+
+[28:06] What? Well, again, I don't know how well the moisture lock on the two cells you're talking about. I hit like 25% moisture loss. And then I start call it. Polly.
+
+[28:23] That is what people how people judge, right? How they used to judge. So you'd weigh like something like a ham before and after. But in a guanchali, in order to understand what moisture loss means, you need to understand the actual fat content because you're not evaporating fat. So if you're losing 25%, if it's 50% fat and you lose 25% of the weight of the guanchali, well, really, like the meat has lost 50% of its of its moisture.
+
+[28:52] You get me? Yeah, but I'm thinking I'm still calculating how much moisture is low. Well, let me how relative to other pieces of what? Yeah, but I'm saying it's like what's gonna control mostly the texture. I mean, the fat's gonna get harder a bit because there's moisture in the fat as well, but the meat is gonna be a more affected.
+
+[29:18] Do you cure it rolled or flat? Flat. All right, so it's gonna be dry. It's gonna be dry. Is it how flexible is it?
+
+[29:26] Can I take it and go on a table? Or or when you push a knife through it, does it kind of uh probably cool through the first sound effect? Yeah, so it's so it's so it's hard. He could have just said, I uh I cure it dry. It's good.
+
+[29:42] I like that, I like it like that, but like for things like that, I like to use it for where I like it to be kind of just soft and like uncuous. By the way, my wife, Jen, told me, because she doesn't think about food as much as I do, that in when you're talking about people, think about this. When you talk about people, uncuous is an insult. It means kind of like you're slimy and oily. And I was like, that's weird because in food talk, unctuous usually means good.
+
+[30:11] You know what I mean? So, like when I say something's unctious, she's like, ew, because she thinks it means that, like, you know, it's a slime ball or skeiz ball, some sort of creep. You know what I mean? And I'm thinking, ooh, you know, like got that like nice texture. Anyway, that's how I like one chali.
+
+[30:25] Uncious. That's just me though. To each their own. And we we and we did pizza on uh Sunday. Yeah, I don't cook pizza anymore.
+
+[30:40] I've got one of the old uh moonie brands. Yeah. Pizza oven. Yeah, I stopped making pizza ever since Wiley opened his pizza restaurant. It's just like why?
+
+[30:47] What's a heartache? You know what I mean? Like, well, why do it? You know what I'm saying? It's like it's like when you have someone in your family who makes something professionally, you just don't you just don't do it.
+
+[31:01] It's like also like I don't make cocktails at home. Like, why you know, it's like, no, I don't. You know what I'm saying? I don't watch food TV, I don't make cocktails at home unless I'm doing uh you know, work. Like if I if I'm like trying to develop a new cocktail, then I'll test them on people at home.
+
+[31:17] But otherwise, I don't know. You know what I mean, Stas, you're with me on this, no? Oh, I'm totally with you, yeah. Yeah, it's like, you know, it's like I do like to cook at home, which is weird. You'd think I wouldn't like to cook at home, but I do like to cook at home, but like I don't want to consume food as a professional thing or as a media thing, or like what I do at the bar.
+
+[31:37] I don't want to do that at home. It just doesn't, you know what I mean? Just give me a bottle of wine and call it a day. You know what I'm saying, Stas? Yeah, that's all I wanted to do with you in California.
+
+[31:46] And instead, you went really good. Well then don't ask me to do work. We like first of all, we don't have the money that we can just hang out. Like that's you know, I mean, like we like we have to work like morons. So it's that we got paid by Amazon the week after.
+
+[31:59] I guess it was good because we would have went way too crazy if it had happened when we were together. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, partially paid. We gotta figure it out. Although someday we'll be able to tell you folks the in the entire saga of uh of Amazon.
+
+[32:14] Uh Jack already had to leave, so I didn't get to bust it, bust him more on his hand rolls. I was gonna bust him one more time on the hand rolls. You weren't on here, right, Stas, yes uh last week when he was talking about you like a dog about about getting mad at him on the hand rolls. So now you can have your say without him here. No, I was here.
+
+[32:32] I was here. No, I he John wasn't here. Yeah, but the hand Um the hand rule thing with Jack and I was really bad. He had a great time, and I I had a horrible time because we missed the thing I wanted to see. So was it Pauly Shore?
+
+[32:45] No, not Nastasia loves the loves the poly shore. I told you Nastasi is gonna start a new club in Los Angeles called Catch a Falling Star, where it's just like you know, people from like Paul Shore generation, you know what I mean? Like like my generation. That's kind of what that's kind of what I'm doing now. I'm throwing these dinner parties, which Dave's gonna be a part of, and we have like all these old rock stars and stuff show up.
+
+[33:15] Catch a falling star. Uh you can you call it that? No, no, no. You should take get that Instagram. People would follow that Instagram.
+
+[33:24] That is bad. That is bad, and that's not like that's not what I want it to be. All right. So before I forget, midway through the show, Spinzall. Spins all spinzall.
+
+[33:36] Also, if you're if you're if you're listening on Patreon, call in your questions to 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507. Quinn, why don't you tell them how they can join the Patreon and call into that number? Yeah, they can uh go to Patreon.com slash cooking issues and join uh any of the uh paid tiers, and that gets them access to all the Patreon feed where you'll get uh live and early episodes of the show. You get prioritized when you submit questions, you'll get access to the Discord, which is filled with lots of uh like-minded people that are always discussing interesting things and also giving uh you know feedback on problems people have, and uh, you know, there's also uh deals we get with Kitchen Arts and Letters and various other uh related uh producers of food or food-related products.
+
+[34:42] Alright. So uh going back to what I was about to say before I did that, spinzall 2.0s. By the way, I like the spinzall 1.0, spins all 2.0, just a better machine all the way around. Clarifies better, stronger, faster, as I said I said earlier. But we have another shipment on the water right now.
+
+[35:01] So monitors, they're big in the warehouse. So we're doing a clearing out inventory sale of the spinzall 2.0 right now. You can have it instead of 11, what is it, 1199 instead of 1199? What's the new price? 850.
+
+[35:19] 850 is such a weird number. Couldn't it be like $849.99? Well $849.99. That's $849.99. Get your spinzall 2.0 now.
+
+[35:32] Get them while they're cheap. Because I tell you what, I really don't know what the price is gonna be when uh we because we're paying the we're paying the big tariff on the next batch that's coming in. So get them where they will probably literally never be this inexpensive. Yeah, from the source. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[35:50] But uh, you know, if you were on the fence and you're like, man, I don't know if I should get one, now's the time, right? Okay, or if you already have one and you need more, they're like potato chips, they're like potato chips. I was at the uh second best, you know. Everyone knows I don't believe in best anything, but I was at what you know the Pellegrino people, Paradiso Bar in Barcelona, what they think is the you know number two best bar in the world. Great bar, by the way, fantastic time in Barcelona.
+
+[36:17] And I went to to their uh production lab afterwards, and they have a big centrifuge, right? The big one, and they're like, Oh yeah, because you know, we need this, we have we have a big production. I'm like, you're the truth of the matter is take it from somebody who knows centrifuges, okay. I there is no one in the bar world, and I'm not I'm just saying it's like I've done it longer, and I build centrifuges, right? So it's like I know centrifuges, and it is more efficient to just own four spinzalls than it is to own one big centrifuge because what happens when your big centrifuge breaks?
+
+[36:53] Your toast, right? And plus, in a spinzall, you can do four different things at the same time, right? And you know we also have new stuff coming out that's gonna make it clarify in continuous mode better etc etc eventually like they it already does clear it clarifies much fa the 2.0 clarifies faster than the than the 1.0 both of which work faster than the big centrifuges do for a variety of reasons that are too boring to get into now but it has to do with fixed angle rotors versus uh you know swinging buckets blah blah blah although swinging bucket would be a good like country band right sounds like a country band like bluegrass swinging buckets anyway um all right did I talk about the sale enough Stas Yeah yeah but also it's like uh you know very limited time because it's basically based on how much uh you know space wherever the clear so if you're hearing this and you're considering it uh double check modern spantry and you know buy early if you want it all right Liz Quinn don't say that you have to check just give me a ballpark number how many do we have left in this in this in the current batch that we need to get rid of that I do not have roughly a billion or like three I think it's more on the order of like a couple hundred we have right yeah I would say it's a couple hundred yeah there you go see ballpark uh all right so uh question from uh Rob Lax I've always bought branded sugar the Domino's brand which is made from sugar cane given that the price of Domino has roughly doubled in the past couple of years you know what I'm like certain things have gone up out of proportion to how much they cost. Because I'm looking at you, diamond co kosher salt. Diamond kosher salt, the actual stuff that like we all use, they know that we like it.
+
+[38:44] So they've like quintupled the price. So, like Morton's trash can like kosher salt is sitting right next to it, and it's gone up a little bit. You know, it's gone up because of inflation. And diamonds sitting there, like, boop boop, we know that you you love us, so we're just gonna hose you, and it's making me mad. But it's not like I'm gonna switch because my hands are geared to using diamond.
+
+[39:08] Like I've spent my entire adult life like knowing how to reach into a container of diamond kosher salt, pick it up and use it to season things. And now I'm being punished for it, and I don't enjoy it. I don't enjoy the new colors, I don't want to enjoy the new art on the box, and I definitely don't enjoy the new price. They can suck it. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[39:29] Anyway, um, but I'm still gonna use it. I'm not one of those guys who gets mad and then like, you know, I'm gonna boycott that wow, I'm gonna shoot myself in the foot. I'm gonna use something that I don't like using. I can still afford it. It's like Mach 3 Gillette Razors, right?
+
+[39:43] When the Mach 3 came out, you were like, I'm not gonna pay $10 for a razor. Razors are like a dollar, you know what I mean? And they're like, Yeah, but it's like marginally better, plus you can afford it. So you are gonna pay $10 for a freaking razor. And you're like, oh.
+
+[39:58] And they were right. Jerks. You know what I mean? No tangent Tuesdays on cooking issues. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[40:05] All tangents all the time. Anyway, Rob has always bought uh dominoes, but given that the price has roughly doubled in the past couple of years, much like eggs, salt, flour, and all sorts of other things, I'm inclined to start buying the generic brands, which are sometimes half the price or less. Most of these off brands don't say that they are quote unquote cane sugar, and I'm assuming that's because they're made of less sexy sugar beets. I've been advised not to use beet sugar in making jam because it won't gel, although I've never put that to the test. Can I safely buy generic sugar for baking?
+
+[40:33] Are there any applications where I should be more discerning about my sugar per purchases and use only cane sugar? Hey, speaking of eggs, I'm not gonna talk about the price of eggs, but I will say this. Trader Joe's, Trader Joe's, my local Trader Joe's, has given up on eggs entirely. They don't even have a section in the cold case anymore for eggs. They've put something else there, and they're like, that's how far in the future Trader Joe's egg pricing is not working because like their system is about that just in time, getting it really cheap.
+
+[41:00] Remember, go re listen to the episode of The Secret Lives of Groceries, which was a good episode we had. And like that's how Trader Joe's works. And so it's so bad that our Trader Joe's literally does not have a section for eggs anymore. Dave, I have a question. I have a question.
+
+[41:15] Why, if eggs have gone up, hasn't the entire chicken like cutlets and things also gone up? That's a good question. It's a it's a great question. I don't well, here's one theory. So when when it's a theory though, I haven't looked looked it up, but uh when one chicken gets ill, because the avian flu is so fast, right?
+
+[41:38] It's like such a fast, like, you know, Ebola-like thing for chickens, right? That when one hen g uh shows up positive or gets sick, they wipe out the entire hen house. Okay. Now, the chickens that you eat only live to be about six weeks old. So they don't have a lot of time to become sick.
+
+[41:56] Whereas like laying hen is sitting there for, you know, probably I forget what the number is. I used to know it's like one or two years that they can be productive and lay, you know, roughly an egg a day or so, right? And so there's a lot longer time they have to get sick, right? And I'm I don't know whether there's rules that they can't jack those things with as much uh kind of antibiotics well the antibiotics aren't going to help with a virus anyway. But anyway, uh so that's my guess.
+
+[42:26] It's just that that you know the meat that we eat is so young that it has less of an overall impact than it would on on laying hens. I don't know. Is that the same for beef too? Well the beef, they don't have I mean like so like six weeks I'm kind of grossed out now. Yeah no cows are much older.
+
+[42:44] Cows are like you know uh like almost a year probably you know um I forget the number I used to know exactly but it it depends right you know cows you don't want them to get too old because then you have to worry about bovine spongal form and cephalopathy so there's kind of a a maximum age that most of our cows are that isn't just determined by tenderness. Really this the slaughter age of cows, slaughter age of most animals is based on when it's no longer convenient to feed them right so a chicken like gets to you know it's its best kind of feed conversion numbers at about six and a half weeks because they're these kind of like it's it's a monstrosity really you know what I mean so like that's why they're so incredibly efficient because they plump up real fast on not very much food and if you continue to feed them you're losing money. Then it's gross to say it that way but you're losing money. With a cow it takes longer to get to full size then it has to marble out right and then as soon as that happens basically you know since most Americans are prizing tenderness once they're not getting any more benefit out of feeding it, all animals, farm animals, sad to say, are killed as soon as they don't provide a benefit to feed them anymore, right? Uh and so that that's where all the numbers um you know come from.
+
+[44:00] And that's part of the reason why, like a lot of our cured pork can't have the same kind of flavor that because there's reasons to keep, for instance, a pig alive longer in Spain when it's eating on the Dehesa, you know, eating acorns than uh an American factory pig. And so uh, you know, going back to Fidel Toldra, who wrote a lot of this early work on cured meats, like the enzyme, they the actual muscle meat of an older animal is different and it has an impact on cured meats, for instance. So, you know, there's a reason other than other than just genetics and feed that, for instance, Beota Feti Berico pigs are so good. It's also like they're slightly older, you know. Anywho, um back to Rob's question on uh cane sugar.
+
+[44:47] Um look, there is a difference between cane sugar and uh and beet sugar, right? Um, but the actual sugar molecules themselves are the same. They are identical. You're talking about like very small amounts of impurities in the margin. And a lot of the impurities that are in these sugars are what they call like higher molecular weight things that are hard to like kind of take out of the crystals because they kind of co solidify in in the crystals.
+
+[45:19] And um right off the top of the bat, one of the things that's slightly different, and maybe this is what the jelly people are talking about, I don't know, is that beet sugar is ever so slightly more basic than cane sugar, because remember when you're when you're purifying sugar, right, they they heat it. And if you heat sugar and it's acidic at all, the sugar will invert. And if the sugar inverts, it doesn't crystallize. It's not sucrose anymore. It's a mixture of fructose and glucose.
+
+[45:48] So they do anything they can to prevent sugar inversion. So you cannot have it acidic, right? Because any acidic environment, especially plus heat equals sugar inversion. And to prevent inversion, beet sugar is usually slightly more basic than the cane sugar. So that could have an effect.
+
+[46:05] For instance, uh, I would guess, I don't know this, that probably beet sugar, if you don't add anything to it, might caramelize first because uh a more basic thing is going to uh brown faster than a than a more than a less you know alkaline thing. Um the other thing is that beet sugar is known to back in the day have more things in it that when you were making, for instance, drinks, that they could throw a flock, right? So in in especially in acidic drinks, uh later on down the line, you could get a slight haze or throw a flock off if you used beet sugar. Uh I don't think that there's any sort of anti-gelling thing in a beet sugar that's going to make it uh gel. I mean, it's like I say, perhaps if you're on that very edge on the border uh of like the uh amount of acid needed to set a jelly, because remember, jelly pectin needs the acid to set, right?
+
+[47:03] Uh and so I guess it's possible that it needs slightly more acid, but I can't I can't think of anything that would stop that from happening. Someone also did some research, it was interesting. Uh, I will tell you it is sensory differences between beet and cane sugar sources from the journal Food Science in 2014, where people can tell the difference in taste tests where you're just eating the sugar, but those taste tests go away when your nose is held. But remember, you're talking about weeny, weeny, weeny, weeny little differences in the uh in the impurities that are that are in it. Covered, smothered?
+
+[47:35] Covered and smothered. Yep. All right. Uh Kev from Copenhagen writes in, hey, what's up? Uh trying to make goat cream out of goat milk.
+
+[47:44] The literature literature and empirical evidence documents that goat milk comes out naturally homogenized. Uh have a bucket centrifuge here that goes to 4,500 RPM. Remember though, in a swinging butt, you can't like just uh you can't correlate RPM of a centrifuge to what it's gonna do, and you can't correlate even uh G forces to what it's gonna uh to what's gonna happen. It's really center a centrifuge by centrifuge, so like a fixed fixed angle rotor versus a swinging bucket rotor, and it has to do with it has to do with the um how the liquids move around in the centrifuge and also how far the impurities have to travel in a centrifuge to settle out, and that's kind of why they're they're different. So it's like you can never really do apples and apples, so you really need to just run tests in different centrifuges.
+
+[48:33] That's that's just an aside. Um I have a bucket centrifuge here that goes to 4500 RPM, but from what I've read, cream separators loosely resemble the spinzall. Has anyone had luck separating goat milk into spinzall? If not, what do you reckon the time slash RPM setting should be on my bucket centrifuge to separate cream, but not churn that cream into butter at the same uh time? All right.
+
+[48:52] I don't think you're gonna spinzalls don't so I used to own a milk separator, and by the way, Kevin, you can buy milk separators fairly cheaply. But the way the milk separators work is they're uh they're not like a spinzall, they're like a bunch of discs, stacked discs. And you feed the stuff in, and the discs kind of throw out the you know the product to the edge of the disc, and then the stuff migrates between the discs, and you take off the stuff at the top and at the bottom, and the stuff that comes off the top is enriched in cream, and the stuff that comes off or enriched in fat, I should say, and the stuff that comes off of the bottom is enriched in um or deep, I guess it's more skim, it's closer to skim. And based on the feed rate that you take out of the of the top, right, then that's gonna determine, or out of the bottom, depending on how they control it. That's gonna determine uh exactly like how much separation happens, how close you are to skim, how close you are to cream.
+
+[49:49] Those things tend not to churn because they're continuous base uh centrifuges, but they're disc separations. In a spinzole, the cream is gonna float up to the surface and then it's gonna compact. It turns into a butter-like thing. However, uh I haven't tested it. I don't believe that the emulsion is reversed.
+
+[50:08] So I think, and we should run this test dots, it's actually not a bad test. I think you can resuspend the fat that you get on a spinzall, the quote unquote butter, which is really I think just like a hard cream. I think you could resuspend it and make it back into cream. But this is a test we should run, right, guys. Yeah.
+
+[50:26] Well, basically you can almost make, you know, depending on how concentrated the pseudo butter gets, you could almost make any percentage cream up to that point. Yeah. If you want to. Yeah. Um, Kev, is that I looked at the numbers and the individual fat globules in goat milk.
+
+[50:49] So, what determines whether something is homogenized is the fat globule size. Um, and they are much smaller than in cow milk. However, and some of them are sub-microns. So in general, like a micron is, I believe, a thousandth of a millimeter, and one micron is about the colloidial size. So when things get below a micron, then you're in general, this is a lot of caveats, but in general, you're in the colloidial range where it's going to stay homogenized.
+
+[51:20] And if it's above uh one micrometer, then eventually, probably unless you heavily stabilize it, like with you know stabilizers, it's going to settle out. Uh and so goat milk, uh, it ranges from about 0.73, which would be probably colloidal, up to 8.6 uh micrometers. So some of the stuff is colloidial and some of it's not. So you should get some creaming and you should be able to get the stuff to uh coalesce. All right.
+
+[51:47] Um, whereas, by the way, in uh in cow milk, unhomogenized cow milk is 0.92, so colloidial, up to 15.75, so much bigger, like almost twice as as big a size of fat globules. And the bigger something is, the more it wants to settle out. That's just how it works. Um we got that? Was that good?
+
+[52:10] Did I finish that? All right. Yeah, wait, I wanted to tell you that I met this artist person, an artist um who told me that he is the king of carbonation. So I was like, no. Yeah.
+
+[52:26] I think so. Well, what uh what makes this person believe that they are the king of carbonation? In what way? So they they had something at Rockaway Beach where they carbonated um they carbonated grain alcohol and then um dropped Adderalls into it and served them. And I was like I think this person is uh the king of bad ideas, but maybe not the king of carbonating, you know what I mean?
+
+[52:55] Yeah. So I was like, have you used this all? He was like, I don't know, I don't know what that is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, well, have you like mixed juice with your your alcohol?
+
+[53:06] And he's like, no, and then it it just didn't go well. So yeah. Yeah. Also, like nightmare. Remember, do you remember that time stars that we did the uh we did the the like 47, like the bottle proof 47 AVV gin and tonics and how wrecked people got?
+
+[53:25] Oh yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. Wait, was that because Cliff gave the wrong didn't dilute it? Well, no, that that was a different this is the one where we actually went to Taylor, restaurant Taylor, and we did that like little event and we wheeled the our chiller on. So for those of you that don't know, even though we pay the most immense taxes in New York City of anywhere, they think it's quaint for us to have cobblestone streets down in Soho.
+
+[53:52] And if you've ever tried to wheel like laboratory equipment, we wheeled a freaking rotovap and like all the chilling stuff over this cobblestone, it's like and like uh we got it there, and yeah, that's remember we served those little shots that we that we had Ellen chilled all the stuff down, people got wrecked. Yeah. It was good though. Wrecked. Yeah, I've never served those things again.
+
+[54:17] This is a bad idea. The crush Addy in it. I mean, come on, please. Please, please, please. Scott writes in, hey Dave, don't know if you've answered this uh problem yet, but you mentioned a genshin thing you had to solve at the bar, and the problem is is that um certain um bitter compounds.
+
+[54:32] For instance, uh what's in Kampari, we we think it's maybe the genshin. If you add acid to it and then let it sit overnight, it becomes more bitter. Uh I wrote in a few years ago about jungle birds, and they seem to compound bitterness when you add the lime juice. If you taste jungle birds base by itself, it's super sweet, not bitter. And the lime juice isn't that bitter by itself.
+
+[54:53] Combined in the two makes it drinks as more bitter than some of its parts. I found a study on carryover effect of bitter pears. Um, and do you notice that when paired together, different bitter compounds affect each other and make things taste more bitter than they originally are? Yeah, no, it happens, but I think I think bitter is incredibly complicated. And it depends on individual people, how they're gonna react to it, because some people can taste certain bitter compounds and other people can't.
+
+[55:18] They have different reactions to it, and even you know, regardless of what you can taste chemically, right? Like what your genes allow you to taste, we also have different thresholds for bitterness, right? That are mentally, you know, that you can mentally get uh uh you know accustomed to or not. So uh yes, uh it is complicated that, but for us, the issue wasn't that when you added lime, it instantly got more bitter. It's that the bitterness changed over time, and so that's what we're trying to figure out um kind of what happens.
+
+[55:49] Also, Scott says, uh, for nitrogen infusing into cocktails. Now, I'm gonna stop here. Be careful, be careful what what you're okay. So you're saying that the best product that you've used is this thing called uh uh nitro infusure from uh enhanced beverage solutions. And what it is, it's a it's a block where you put gas in one side, liquid in the other, and you get like, you know, basically Guinness style widgeted stuff on the on the other side.
+
+[56:15] And we have another question about this later, uh, we'll get to in a minute. But when you say nitrogen infusing, you please like always be more precise. So what you mean is you're putting like pressurized nitrogen into a drink such that when you depressurize it, you get tiny micro bubbles that create that kind of rolling head look, right? And that'll happen regardless of whether the thing is carbonated or not. But when you say things like nitrogen infusing, people get confused and think that you can use nitrogen to do infusion, in other words, like make an infused liquor with nitrogen, and that you do with nitrous.
+
+[56:58] So, like, I just like there needs to be a little more precision in language so that people don't get confused about what's actually going on because people always think when I say nitrous, people are like, you mean nitrogen? I'm like, I'm pretty sure I know the difference. You know what I mean? So it's like just be always be, and it's not helped by the fact that the word nitro can mean either nitrogen or nitrogen uh uh nitrous oxide, depending on who the heck you're talking to. And the whole world needs to just stop talking this way.
+
+[57:23] You know what I mean? Like, I don't know what the answer is, but and I'm gonna lose on this the same way I lost with Sous vide. But uh anyway. Mike C says, I want to try baking semolina-based breads, uh, but the readily available product near me is the more coarsely ground stuff from Bob's Red Mill. Is there a way for me to bake with this?
+
+[57:38] I was thinking about a long autolized step would be a good start. Curious to get your thoughts. Thanks. Well, I don't know about Bob's Red Mill Semolina versus your stuff. The main issue with semolina is that semolina doesn't have any fines in it.
+
+[57:53] And it doesn't have uh a lot of like like uh damaged or broken starch. It's really just like like purified like wheat almost like well, it's stemolina, right? So they're like almost little rocks. So I don't know the difference. I'd have to like send me the brand that you normally do and Bob's red mill, but you need a longer hydration because it need it needs to get in.
+
+[58:16] Remember, the whole point one of the whole points of semolina is that it does not absorb a lot of water for its for its uh protein level because there's not a lot of damaged starch in it. That's one of the things it does. Zev says I would I was gonna say for Mike C, I would look online for semola, which is the proper labeling for like a fine Durham wheat flour. Well, it's not flour. So flour is flour and semolina is semolina, right?
+
+[58:47] So semola is a if you find a bag that says semolin, not semolina, it's usually Durham flour. I think it's fine. Yeah, but does Mike want durum flour? Or does Mike want semolina? One's gonna have damaged starch and fines, and one is not.
+
+[59:08] Right? So you need to determine whether you want to have there's coarseness of grind, and then there's whether there are fines in it or not, right? So when you're anyway, uh I gotta answer these other uh two questions. Zev uh says, I just made a pot of chicken stock and after refrigerating it for a day, found no solid layer of fat at the surface. That has never happened to me before.
+
+[59:26] I don't recall the chickens being particularly lean, but they have been cut up by the butcher, and I was in a rush getting them into the pot, so I can't remember. Uh the only thing I can think is that uh I concentrated it quite a bit. I boiled it down. You can emulsify uh if you look at like old Chinese stock techniques, they have uh like emulsified stocks where they just boil it hard, and the hard boiling along with the stuff that's coming out of the bones can emulsify it. But I would still think you would get some fat layer on the top.
+
+[59:51] So maybe uh someone, anyone on the Discord, uh, why don't you write in what your experiences are? Because I only have made emulsified stocks, uh, you know, like Chinese style emulsified stocks a couple of times. So someone like write in, let me know what you guys think, and we'll talk more about it next week. Doc Molotov uh says he wants to get a nitro press, uh, and it basically is talking about like putting nitrous into gas like uh into liquids like we were talking. Yes, but it I believe it just concentrates air, and I don't think if you're not storing it for a long time, that the extra oxygen is gonna be a problem, so I think you're gonna be fine.
+
+[1:00:22] And we got through all the questions, cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City News Dan Studios. Join as usual with John back from Belgium. How are you doing? Doing great, thanks.
+
+[0:21] Yeah, I got Joe Hazen rocking the panels behind me. What's up? Hey, hey, hey. Welcome. Hey, we got uh Jackie Molecules over there on the uh West Coast.
+
+[0:29] How are you doing, Jack? Yo, I'm good. Yeah, yeah, you're 100%. Uh yeah, I put off the wooden teeth removal for another month. So what are you just taking copious drugs or what?
+
+[0:41] No, no, I put it off. I'm not, I haven't I haven't done it. Yeah, but it's not painful to you and causing you sinus infections. You're not like on well. I feel kind of crummy, but yeah.
+
+[0:51] So why'd you put it off? Same amount of recovery now as later. What the heck, man? Yeah, I had a lot of stuff going on, and uh it's a long story. You know what?
+
+[1:02] I picked the better dentist. Here's why okay, well, all right, better dentist. All right, it's for the better dentist. But you know, whatever. Yeah.
+
+[1:08] I always put things off, and you know what it does for me? Nothing good. Nothing good. Anyway. Yeah, that's true.
+
+[1:14] Upper left-hand corner, we got Quinn, what's up? Hey, I'm good. Yeah, all right. Sounds we have Nastasia yet, or is she calling in a minute? She's here.
+
+[1:22] Hey, we got Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. What's up? Hi. Hey. Uh, and special guest.
+
+[1:29] So here's what happened. Last week, John wasn't on the show because he was in Belgium, right? You know. His, you know, favorite favorite country at this point. Yeah?
+
+[1:40] Yeah. True. Yeah, Belgium. And he brought back with him in his suitcase, not only did he bring back mustard, but he brought back a famous Belgian chef. And so uh we have now you're gonna pronounce your name for me because I don't want to ruin it.
+
+[1:53] Michael, pronounce your last name. Vremut. Vremut. Is it how close am I? Vremut.
+
+[1:59] Yeah, that's okay. I can live with it. Yeah. And his buddy yours, also a chef. Are you a chef at the restaurant or no?
+
+[2:05] No. No? All right. I'm gonna pester you, but you're you're also like from Belgium? Yes, I am.
+
+[2:11] Yeah? Flemish Belgium, not like so. Question I have for you guys, because normally what happens for the first couple minutes we just shoot the breeze over what we've had in the last week, and it might be interesting. When did you get into the country? Uh Saturday.
+
+[2:21] Okay, so you've had you've had some food here. And do you get to come here often or no? Well, that's 10 years ago, so. No, long time. Big, big, a lot of difference, a lot of difference.
+
+[2:30] Yep. So, question for you. As uh, you know, a legitimate Belgian, Flemish Belgian. John, whose family is Flemish, only speaks French. Discuss.
+
+[2:41] Yeah, my dad's from Kent. He never taught me any any Flemish. But I think the northern part of Belgium, there's uh a lot of people who speak uh Dutch, but also speak French. Yeah. More or less a lot of people speak only French, so yeah, but yeah, but Ghent, he's a Gent fan, he's a Gent dude.
+
+[3:01] By the way, Gent of all the I didn't get to go to everywhere. I only went, you know, uh Brussels and West, but I didn't like go to Liege or any of the places like that, or the Ardenne or any of this. But uh I have to say, Ghent was my favorite. Ghent's a great town, and that's where your restaurant is, right? Yeah, I love Ghent.
+
+[3:18] We're situated in the city center, so I've been raised to an academies from uh Ghent. And then when I was 18, I left uh left to stay there. So happy place to save you. I only had one bad experience in Ghent, two bad experiences in Ghent. Two.
+
+[3:33] Here they are. Number one, the jerk who is like in like running the line behind the glass of your tower that you have to walk up was a huge jerk to my whole family. I hope he rots in hell. That's one. And two, those what do you call those things?
+
+[3:48] Cuberdon? Cuberdon, yeah. They're the garbage garbage. It's the worst candy that's ever been made. Is there a good version of it?
+
+[3:54] Yeah, it's only sugar. Is there a good version of it? That guy who's right in the city center area, like across the way from the mustard place, only takes cash. I don't have cash. I had to go, like, I had to walk like a thousand miles to an ATM that would take my my card to get cash to have what was arguably the worst candy I've ever had in my entire life.
+
+[4:14] Is there a good version of that? You want to describe it anyway? It's like a little pyramid. It's like imagine if gummies tasted bad. Everyone likes gummies, right?
+
+[4:21] Imagine if gummies were bad. Tasted like medicine. Like not even like a weak medicine. Just bad. Yeah, candy, but from that guy, also.
+
+[4:33] So it's not that everybody's making it. Just that guy? Yeah, everybody knows. Like he's always there, always on that square. He's standing with a his little trolley with before they were two, but they were fighting a lot.
+
+[4:44] Well, it's not in the newspaper, so he never had so much publicity of that. And then one of the two stopped. So uh yeah. Well, thank God you got rid of one of them. You only have one more to go.
+
+[4:53] And then you're a cube don't fit. Every every tourist is bossing it, so let's try it. People get this. It's called Cuberdon. It's a pyramid.
+
+[5:00] It is not any. I don't know what whether a cube is related to our word for cube, but it is in no way cubic. There's no shape or form cubic. And it's not even a nice pyramid. It's not even a well.
+
+[5:12] Yeah, but it's not even well rendered. You know what I mean? Sloppy, sloppy edges. You know, uh imagine, yeah, like a poorly constructed, like semi-conical jelly bean with no flavor, maybe a little little bit of like a floral garbage flavor and a like a weak lavender color, and you have only two bags pieces again. Rest fantastic.
+
+[5:36] I love it. Yeah. Uh all right. So, what what what happened the last week? Who's who's got something uh interesting from last week?
+
+[5:43] Did I cook anything last week? I know I did because I cooked every day. What do you guys got? I mean, I had an excellent time. I've been on a terrible diet, sucks.
+
+[5:53] Because of this freaking tooth? How good is this dentist? Yeah, I'm I'm no, I also had high cholesterol in my last blood. Like, I'm just in this phase of uh trying to, you know, tr triage everything going on with me. Okay, when they when they did your cholesterol panel, right?
+
+[6:12] First of all, let's go back to what Nastasia told you last week, what which is you don't get to like change your diet for a week and a half and then undo everything you've done in your life prior to that. Well, what about three weeks? No, that's just not how it works. That's just not what happens. You're like the guy who like gives up smoking when he's like 75 and hopes to have it like you know, fix the problem.
+
+[6:35] It's not how it works. You know what I mean? But the other thing is that like, you know, like which part of your cholesterol panels came back? Because some of this stuff is just calculated. A lot of this stuff in those blood panels is just calculated.
+
+[6:47] And let me tell you something. You know, it's no skin off of your RN or your doctor's nose to just tell you to change your entire way of living. Because you know what? They get to go home and eat whatever they want to, but they say something to you and they put the fear of God into you. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[7:01] Yeah, that's that's right. Yeah. And like not only that, like, whatever, whatever, man. Whatever. Like, you know, like I need to remind myself of uh the better way to do this, which is just eat the same stuff you've always eaten, but less of it.
+
+[7:15] That is a great way to do things. If you need to eat less, you know, or don't definitely don't stress about it so much. You stress about it so much. Is there a country on earth that stresses more than the United States does about what we eat and how it's affecting our particular health, but at the same time. So the French also believe stuff like this, right?
+
+[7:35] They believe that Italians also believe that like every little thing they eat. You hate that about Italians, right? They're always talking about how like their digestion and their health and their food. But at least their traditional system is what they believe in, not whatever some rando, like you know, healthcare provider tells them. You know what I'm saying, Sas?
+
+[7:52] Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like they don't have to change their things because they've always eaten the same quirky, weird way that they always have. Italians always believe that they're not consuming liquor when they have their TV. You know what I mean? Somehow, like, but whatever.
+
+[8:07] It doesn't matter because they they don't have to change what they do all the time, so it doesn't cause them any stress. When you're constantly having to change what you eat, it's so stressful. When I was sick in Italy, I remember I went to the doctor and I was like, I don't feel well. You know, I need some medicine. And he took a drag of his cigarette and said, just go to the beach.
+
+[8:29] Oh man. Imagine if you said that to me, I would have spat in his face. You know what I mean? Or her face. Like the beach, you're trying to kill me.
+
+[8:37] I hate sand. That's why I hate sand. And I don't know if you can you can't tell over the radio, but I'm a pale dude. You know? Yeah.
+
+[8:45] Uh yeah. I show up when I my beach gear is what I'm wearing right now, which is long sleeve, like dark blue long sleeve shirt, long pants, shoes, hat. That's my beach wear. Okay. Uh all right.
+
+[9:00] So Jack has, you know, been ruining himself for the past couple of weeks because he's waiting for the good dentist to rip the teeth out of his face. That like that's just not okay, dude. Anyway, it doesn't hurt me any, it hurts you. I feel bad if you get hurt, you know what I'm saying? Thanks, Ben.
+
+[9:20] And plus also, I'm sure it's putting a crimp in Nastasia style because you're her going out buddy. I did I drank with her. I went out and drank with her on one night. All right. I broke the fat.
+
+[9:31] Okay. If we have any doctor, so on our Discord, if we have any doctors on our Discord, I want to hear the actual science about I can't have anything to drink because I'm on antibiotics. Right? Is that just a farce? Or is that real?
+
+[9:46] Is that a thing? Or not a thing? It's a thing people say when they're, let's say, pregnant and they don't want to drink at the bar. I'm on antibiotics. Like that's a classic thing to say, right?
+
+[9:57] I mean, it's not good for your liver. Antibiotics? And alcohol. Why? Well, I don't think antibiotics are on their own either.
+
+[10:03] Like ibuprofen and tylenol and alcohol, rip your liver out, kill you. Yeah. But like antibiotics wise. I mean, it depends on the antibiotic. I know the ones I take affect my kidneys.
+
+[10:14] And then the theory is that your kidneys are working harder if you're drinking. But is that if you're drinking a lot? Like if you're drinking like a six pack of beer. I don't know, man. Exactly.
+
+[10:25] I want to like so I want to I want to like talk to the person that came up with the original recommendations and be like, what's real? What's the real deal? What's actually happening? What am I actually worried about here? You know what I mean?
+
+[10:36] Whatever. Can you just ask your mom, the doctor? Yeah, I'm sure she's sure she would know, but I just haven't bothered because I've never followed that advice. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, and it's a terrible.
+
+[10:48] Here's a terrible argument. It didn't kill me. My son pulls that out all the time. He's like, I did it, it didn't kill me. I'm like, it didn't kill you the last time you did it, you little jerk.
+
+[10:55] You know what I mean? He's actually much bigger than I am now. Anyway, uh, all right. All right, all right. Uh Quinn, I know you I know you had something you cook last week.
+
+[11:01] You're gonna want to get in. What do you got? Yeah, well, we uh my dad bought a turkey from our favorite small local farmer, but the turkey was huge. I think they didn't like slaughter it last season, so it must have kept it growing. Was it tough as all get out?
+
+[11:23] Was it like chewing on nails? Uh we re brazed it because we we had to break it down. It was 25 pounds, which is much bigger than the turkeys we usually get from him. I mean, it could also be this different feed, different breed, but I mean, you braised the breast. No, no, we broke it, we broke it down into pieces.
+
+[11:45] Well, the breast is how tough was the breast? Oh, you haven't cooked it yet. So you don't have to. We haven't cooked that part yet. Yeah.
+
+[11:51] I mean, a turkey that was is over a year old, I don't know that I've ever eaten one. I've had chickens that are over a year old, and it's like they're delicious, but you know what I mean? Like the dark meat looked like duck. It was pretty wild. Yeah.
+
+[12:08] How'd it taste compared to duck? I think it looked very dark. You know what my favorite things used to do uh with uh like large turkeys legs is you you have to have a bandsaw because it doesn't work so well with a cleaver, but you you make them into fake asabuko, and then you braise them out, you tie them, then you braise them out like asebuco, and then afterwards you just go in with pliers and beep, beep beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, you pick out the uh the tendons. Hey, in Belgium, do they take they don't eat a lot of turkey, right? No, not too much, no.
+
+[12:41] No. Because people who've listened to me, you know, rant forever know that I hate the tendons and turkey legs because they're like solid like rocks. And they used to have machines that could take the tendons out before you cooked it. But you have to do it when you slaughter the bird. As soon as you chop the feet off, you can't rip the it's almost like you know how with game birds they do the same thing for tendons, they'll like with the pheasants we do, huh?
+
+[13:04] Yeah, you break it off and poo and you pull it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They used to have a machine, like a like a not even a machine, like but something on the bench that you could plop, put the turkey in, crack in like I did it before in the work where I worked a long time before was open the open a table, yeah, yeah. And yeah, yeah. Smart.
+
+[13:23] Why doesn't everyone do this? Why would you kill an animal and then not want it to be delicious? Are you uh bad person? Like, why do you not want the animal to be delicious? You're gonna kill it anyway.
+
+[13:33] First of all, with turkeys, they're killing zillions of them. Don't you want it to be good? You know how much extra work was it for you to do that? Oh, none, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[13:42] Yeah, five seconds. I would pay. I would pay, I would pay an extra five dollars for the bird all in for that one action. And how many could you do in an hour? So many.
+
+[13:54] So many. You'd be making so much money per hour for removing the tendons. You know what I mean? True. How are the tendons in this turkey?
+
+[14:02] Did they kill you? Did you have to strip the meat off? I could poke somebody's eye out with a turkey tendon. They're the worst. We chopped up the dark meat for a gunbo.
+
+[14:13] We didn't like roast it all. Well, though you said you braised it. The breasts? I meant stewed. Okay.
+
+[14:22] But you chopped it up raw? So you had to scrape it off the tendons raw. God bless you. God bless you, dude. Um anyway.
+
+[14:30] That was my dad's joke. Yeah, what? What do you got? My dick my dad's in a similar boat to Jack in terms of diet. He got the the good news, bad news is uh, you know, diabetes is doing better.
+
+[14:48] And now he's on blood pressure watch. So they're saying you've got to cut the sodium down. Yeah, or just take the medicine that lowers your blood pressure and have all the salt that you want. Right? Right?
+
+[15:00] I mean, like that's the other alternative. Because let me tell you something about salt. Oh yeah. Salt. Like good stuff.
+
+[15:08] And did they better did they actually run a test on your dad? Does your dad have the type of blood pressure that is actually salt responsive or no? Or did they not do the test because nobody cares? And the easiest thing to do is to tell your dad not to have salt, even though he loves salt. Yeah.
+
+[15:23] Yeah. Probably. Yeah. Yeah. All right.
+
+[15:28] Okay. Uh, what about you, Stas? What was? All right. What about you, Stas?
+
+[15:33] What do you got? Uh a friend of mine wanted all of her friends to come over with a recipe that they cooked from the Julia Child French book. The original one with uh Simone uh what was Simone Beck. Yeah. All right.
+
+[15:47] Volume one and two, or could you choose which volume, or it has to be volume one, OG OG? I don't know. It wasn't that strict. So I made. You mean cassoulet?
+
+[15:59] But I got bored with it so it was just pork and beans say casole man that's like that's pretty hardcore dedication did you get the uh how do you pronounce those beans the how you pronounce those cocoa beans yeah well there's a couple yeah and then like uh the sausage and the duck and the then the cooking and the this and the that I mean it's a delicious stick to your ribs dish but you know it's it's a lot of work. Yeah a lot of patients also yeah yeah the best casserole is the one someone makes for you or you go to corcasson yeah so what was the stand who did the who effed up the worst what was the worst thing somebody brought the absolute worst oh god someone didn't um didn't set their custard uh uh the steak like they were gonna assemble at the house but they never put the custard in the fridge to set so it was just liquid and she poured it the pie and it was like well we had ice cream instead well that sucks yeah that feels bad too yeah and you know when you're in the car and it's like spoop sh poop sh poop and then you you look down at it and they're like it the the like the pie is splashed all over your seat it's a nightmare was the and you didn't even taste the crut like the crust was the crust first of all if you're not willing to give something the time to set just use a standard cooked custard or something like you know like whatever just make it the night before what is wrong with people anyway or like make it bulletproof there are custards that are I guess no she had to follow the recipe that was in the show. All right. Fair enough. Fair enough.
+
+[17:35] I have no I have no recollection of what I cook, so I'm not even gonna talk about it. But John, you were in Belgium, so what did you eat? Including at Michael's restaurant. Yeah. Um, I went to three fantastic two-star Michelin dinners, including Michael's.
+
+[17:47] Uh the first night I went to Le Chalet de la Forêt, which is in Ucle, just outside of Brussels, and that was in Ucle, that's uh the town name. Um imagine you live there. Well, that's the worst name. Sounds like you have like gastrointestinal distress. Give me the name again.
+
+[18:01] Ucla. Um hey Stas. Imagine if we did an event there and the only grocery store was Ralph's. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[18:10] Go to Ralph's in. Second night I went to Ralph Barendens uh out near Liege and that was also fantastic. Uh oh, so you flew in when so it's over there. Flew into Brussels, then drove out. Did you go to uh Maison Dandoy?
+
+[18:22] I did, yes, for her. My mom likes it there. I mean it's delicious waffles, but yeah. Which waffle did you get? One of each.
+
+[18:28] Oh, nice. Okay. But at the outdoor stand. Because they only have the good waffles at the outdoor stand, indoor speckles only, right? Yep, exactly.
+
+[18:34] Did you go in and get those? No. Have you ever bought have you ever bought the giant ones? No. Has anyone ever bought Michael?
+
+[18:39] Have you ever bought the giant ones? Like the huge speculous cookies. You ever bought it? No. Has anyone ever purchased one and gotten it home?
+
+[18:46] Has anyone ever purchased? Imagine buying people. Imagine the most brittle cookie on earth. It's not like a like a like a like a pita. You can't roll it up.
+
+[18:54] It's the it's like you look at it and it shatters. It's thin and it's four feet tall. It's a stunt. How do you how do you get this thing home? Like you pay what?
+
+[19:04] Like like 40, 50 dollars for the cookie, and then what it's a thousand dollars to ship it to your house because like because it has to be in like art packing? What the hell? You know what I mean? Ridiculous. But cool in the store.
+
+[19:15] The lady did not want to talk to me in my French because she was French. My French not good enough to make fun of her in French. And I feel like you can't make fun of somebody unless you do it in their chosen language. Yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[19:28] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But the spec loose are delicious, and they're outdoor waffle game on point. Because they never stop making them. Yeah.
+
+[19:37] People are running, people are running like a like a in the United States, we used to have what's called bucket brigades. So like when our fire departments didn't work, you would literally have just like brigades of people with buckets like passing buckets, like to put out a fire with water buckets. And uh that's how they make waffles there. They're so fast. They have like a bucket brigade of like batter coming in and like dough balls for the liege coming in.
+
+[19:58] And so they're never sandbagged. They're delicious. Oh my god, you have to wait in line, but you should. Yeah. Which did you like better there?
+
+[20:05] Did you like the Brussels style or did you? I mean, Liege is always my favorite. Really? Waffle style, yeah. Really?
+
+[20:09] Always. Yeah. You're never like it's too much. No. It's my childhood.
+
+[20:14] Okay. Yeah. What about you, Michael? What's your favorite style between those two? And is there more styles that I'm missing?
+
+[20:19] No, the different to say like one or the other one. Yeah. Yeah. Is there a Gentish waffle? The real no.
+
+[20:27] We take the Brussel waffle with a fresh turn to vanilla ice. Yeah. Nice. All right. Yeah, Dave loved the waffle so much.
+
+[20:34] He was there last time he got his own proper Belgian waffle. I have an A I have an H V D A 57. Okay. Yeah. Weighs 90 pounds.
+
+[20:42] It's unconscionable amount of money. The thing is a monster. Everyone's like, but you people write these things all the time. I say this, I'm gonna be very brief. But people are like, uh, you know, you can make a really great waffle with any waffle iron.
+
+[20:55] No. It's because you've never used the real waffle iron. That's why you think that. I mean, you can make a decent waffle. You can do all sorts of tricks and like handstands and like jump through flaming hoops to try to make a waffle that is like close to what you could make if you have the real waffle iron.
+
+[21:09] But there's a reason that they make those waffle irons, and it's that they're fantastic. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Do you have one? In the restaurant.
+
+[21:18] No, that's so good. The crampus, Frenchie one, not as good. No. A lot cheaper. Their crepe maker, great.
+
+[21:26] I've had their crepe maker for 25 25 years or something, going strong, gas. I think it's a monster. I think some great. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[21:37] On my last night ended at uh Chef Michael's restaurant and it was delicious. The staff was really friendly. Um your plateware is stunningly beautiful. I love the bread plates. Umbread plate.
+
+[21:49] Like I don't know, the like actual plate that the bread came on, like control flatware. Not a plate made of bread, not like a trencher, not a medieval style. Plate bread was really good too. Everything is eatable in my restaurants. Everything.
+
+[22:00] Everything. It's like you're the Willy Wonka of Ghent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like here's the thing. You could do it, obviously, you can make all the stuff edible, but could you make a delicious plate?
+
+[22:09] You could make an edible plate. Could you make a delicious plate that was non-absorbent? Can imagine that a little bit other y'all can make it. So maybe. Well, the thing is like, you know, like some of that stuff, I didn't I never got to eat.
+
+[22:19] I never when I w when I went to Spain a bunch of times, but I've never been to like one of the early 2000s, like, you know, butt, you know, butt-kicking, like fancy modernist place. I went to La Broche, but like in 2004, but I never went to like Moogaritz or any of those things. But how good now Harold McGee tells me it is good, but how good can a potato wrapped in clay taste? How good, because I have eaten kaolin, which is what they coated their stuff in. Yeah.
+
+[22:49] I'm thinking making plates. I don't like the texture of Kalen in my teeth. Do you? Did you have that dish? But I I don't I know which dish you're uh remaining.
+
+[22:59] Yeah. I didn't need it yet, but I had some friends. Can I imagine also if you're there, you experience it? You got like the the big three but all stones and then you guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[23:07] Did they like it? You experience it, I think. McGee loved it. Yeah. So I mean, maybe they have some way of making dirt taste good.
+
+[23:13] But it must be good, I think. Yeah. On a level like that, everything should be good, you know. Yeah, yeah. You would think.
+
+[23:19] Right. You know? I mean, whatever. So uh so of those, you didn't get tired of eating fancy? After the the third night, it was I mean, I couldn't finish all the food at Michael's restaurant.
+
+[23:32] You're an embarrassment. I felt bad. You're an embarrassment. But it was rich and decadent. I mean, the king crab that you had was intense, intensely delicious.
+
+[23:41] But also, yeah, we were getting tapped out. You had king crab from uh from like off like where we are, or do they have one in the North Sea also? No, from the North. Really? Really from yeah, it's not the North Sea, yeah.
+
+[23:52] Huh. Uh and it's similar to the one we get? Yeah, the really nice thick uh meatrice line. Yeah. Are they as expensive as the ones we get?
+
+[23:59] They're so expensive. It's really expensive, yeah. And do you get them live? You can buy them live, but yeah, they're so expensive here. The live ones are ridiculously expensive.
+
+[24:07] And here's a here's a a tip, guys. Not you, you know. But when you're buying live crustaceans, the minute they come out of the water, they start dying. Like they they they stay alive, but they eat themselves from the inside and they lose what is is is good about them. So a lot of times, if you can get one that they fly that they get out of the water, they put it on an airplane, and they fly it to you, and it's at the restaurant, the restaurant buys it and serves it that night, great.
+
+[24:33] You know what I mean? Fantastic. Some of the best crab I've ever had is like that that was flown in for events for me. I loved it, right? But a lot of times the stuff that they instantly kill and flash super freeze on the boat is great.
+
+[24:45] Yeah. You know what I mean? Anyway. Anyway. So expensive.
+
+[24:49] So ridiculously expensive. Delicious. Yeah, it is. And then the crispy veal sweetbreads with the excessive amount of black truffle and your caviar potato with the crayfish muslin was delicious. In the kitchen, or do you do it at the table to make people spend more?
+
+[25:03] No, it's all from the kitchen. Everything is bald. So you give the good portion. But he eats a la carte, so we have to do it. My mom didn't want to do the tasting.
+
+[25:12] Good job, you can choose. You can choose in my restaurant. So we have two menus. We have one menu with fish meat, vegetable courses, and then inside that we have a menu pure vegetable. But it's also really interesting.
+
+[25:21] Um I must say like 90% of the people, they have the menu. You can choose the courses also. But it's a la carte you can't, of course, you can really choose whatever you want on that moment. And he still didn't finish it. The jerk.
+
+[25:35] He orders a la carte, he still didn't finish it. I didn't hear any complaints from my waiters, but I'll have to say this when you do go to a restaurant, especially how many seats you got? 24? No, 30 to 40 covers. 30 to 40, 30 to 40 covers.
+
+[25:47] 30 to 40 covers. So if you go to a restaurant that does 30 to 40 covers in a night, they pay attention to whether you eat it or not. Yeah. They do. Somebody normally doesn't finish his plate, there's a problem.
+
+[26:00] That's why I tried to eat as much as I possibly could. So then I'm going to think that, because there was no problem. I mean, you can't. We probably told it to the waiter also that he didn't, they said it to me. So if the people don't say anything and they don't need it, then they will ask you.
+
+[26:10] They will say, like, okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because like, you know, people pay attention. Like, people take it personally.
+
+[26:15] They're trying to make you happy. And if not, it's an it's like not an insult, but it's part to personal, right? Yeah. But I'm I'm not I'm also not a big fan if you you have like 10 dishes, and every time the waiter will say, like, did you like it? Did you like it?
+
+[26:27] Did you like it? Yeah. Something like that. Well, I ate it. If it if it was really good, you will say it yourself.
+
+[26:31] Your fit your plate is finished. It means it was really good, I think normally. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So how many courses did you say in the in the tastings? Typically?
+
+[26:39] Uh three, two. We have seven courses. Seven courses, yeah. Yeah. So like I think like uh what's the maximum number that's easy to course out?
+
+[26:48] Because I think a lot of people don't think about how difficult some of the longer tastings are, just the portion sizes, because the difference between a little bit more or a little bit less is the difference between leaving hungry and leaving like bullets. A lot of people can choose, so and the other and then at lunchtime the people can choose like three, four, three to seven courses. And for dinner, five to seven courses. So for me, uh like if the portion of the a la corte, but for me, still needs to be more than like taking the spoon, one bite. It needs to be like you have a few bites.
+
+[27:17] I'm really disturbed if you go to a restaurant, then the storytelling is more important than the amount of food that's on your plate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you're talking about a product, you really want to taste it. You want to taste the sauce, you want to taste everything. So Quinn sent me a video that you did in English, because a lot of the stuff is uh inaccessible to an idiot like me who can only speak English and you know a tiny amount of German and a smattering of French and Spanish.
+
+[27:38] But uh uh you did uh what was it? It was the Belgian caviar on top of the crayfish, probably, no? Uh it was like a yeah, langust like a Langustine that was like uh like ceviche. What was she tortur? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[27:52] And what was the gele? It's from the heads made from the heads of the uh Langustines. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was like Langastined up. A biscuit, like you make a bisque.
+
+[27:59] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And let me just tell you, if you go, it I is your caviar portion that healthy in the restaurant. He makes a canal of caviar. Crazy.
+
+[28:11] 30 grams. With geez, Luis. With the two. So, first of all, canel, canal your canal point on uh canal game on point. Like, I have to say, although I never really developed the skill, and nobody I think even teaches it anymore.
+
+[28:23] And I mean, like you talk to like a you know, a young kid, they're like you canal something, they're like, can who? Canoe? And then like, but like, you know what I mean? Like they're just the right amount of jump jump by the way, what I'm doing with my hands is making the little canal motion, with the spoons, but I still appreciate it. Do you still I mean, obviously, you still appreciate it because you do it.
+
+[28:43] Like when people come in now, do they still know that where you are, or do you have to teach people how to canal? Yeah, one way you're later learning on school, but maybe less and less. Yeah. But yeah. It's like uh I think canals might be going the way of uh of like the turned the turned vegetable, which by the way, turned vegetables can can go, they can go, they can go die.
+
+[29:02] They you don't need to turn a vegetable. But I think even 20 years ago, 30 years ago when you were plating, it was like okay, when you would give like a mesh potato, it's like making three nice canals put side on the plate. Yeah, yeah. You don't see that anymore, of course. No.
+
+[29:13] No. Um but even like even like 15 years ago, especially on pastry side or like even savory when people were doing things out of the Paco jets. Shit, shit, shit, shit, shh, shh, you know what I mean? It's like, you know, you that was the way that they did the ice cream, you know. Anyway, I think some law skills should come back and some some should go.
+
+[29:34] You don't turn vegetables, do you? You know what you know I mean, turning? Yeah, pump shot two or something. Yeah, yeah. Ridiculous, right?
+
+[29:40] And the as if that's the only way. So the argument by the way, people, what we're talking about is you're basically making little pickle barrels out of all of your vegetables, like you know, we and you have seven sided football. They really you really learn it at school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were sitting in school was like, okay, you make 60 for today.
+
+[29:55] Yeah. Everybody. Yeah, and they reject some, and it's a hazing. Like it's a hazing you, and like how good are you at the tournée, right? So you're like, and then they say that the reason that you do it is because it makes everything cook more evenly, but it's not actually a shape that cooks evenly.
+
+[30:10] Because it's thicker in the middle than it is on the ends. So the ends are always going to get beat up before the inside is done. And it's the most inefficient if you unless you're making veg stock every day. And who's making veg stock with well, maybe somebody. You can make a potato soup, I guess.
+
+[30:26] But my point is is that you have all of these trimmings. There are other ways to get evenly shaped vegetables, is what I'm trying to say. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's the question. Does it need to be evenly shaped?
+
+[30:35] No, no. What do you think? What do you? Oh, so that's a good point. So the way that they used to teach in the cooking school all the time was that even shape for even cooking, but you disagree.
+
+[30:43] Yeah, it's depending on what you're going to use, huh? What are you going to make? What's your least favorite vegetable? Least favorite? Yeah.
+
+[30:50] To cook. What do you hate? I'm not a huge fan of uh red cabbage, but really. You me I think I like to eat it on a sandwich, but I've never bought it. Also the smell when you're still at the smell, it's you're a green, you're a green.
+
+[31:05] But normally, normally I don't have I eat everything, so but when you buy it, you have a green and a red, you go the red. I mean the green. Go to the green. I like how that news was like a little green cabbage tart line. Yeah.
+
+[31:18] It was very delicious. Yeah. Yeah. I like it. Speaking of, speaking of things uh that I don't know, red versus red versus green or white.
+
+[31:26] Onions. Talk to me about this onion. What do you have? What's what's the name of the onion? Uh Seven.
+
+[31:32] Talk to me about this onion. It hasn't that's the white, it's a white onion from uh the south of France, the Aubrec region from uh France. But like that's kin to like our Vidalia sweet ones. You ever had our onions? Our sweet onions?
+
+[31:43] We need to have an onion on it. I don't think it tastes here, no. You've never had that's that's a really I I still remember the first time that I ate it was when I was on uh vacation in uh France. I was to I went to Michel Braun. Yeah.
+
+[31:54] And it was one of his dishes in the menu, so I never experienced it as you go to a high-level restaurant, and then the dish was like a half of an onion. So it was really like a big onion cut in two. It was braced, it was really colored, caramelized with uh a little sauce with it and some uh fruit with it, but it was just like a semi-onion, so you never thought like I'm gonna serve a semi-onion to the people. And it was good? It was crazy good.
+
+[32:16] It must be the first time that I really like really realized like how good can an onion be. And it was the quality of the onion was so good, so yeah, after that I also use it. You don't know my business partner Nastasia, but right now what I'm doing is trying to picture her face if we're at a restaurant paying through our nose and a plate shows up with just a half an onion on it. Trying to imagine. Trying to imagine the look on your face.
+
+[32:40] Uh perfectly braised, caramelized with a good juice with it. Let me ask you this. When you were eating this like Michelle Bra perfect onion after you had your gargi you or however you pronounce the salad that he always makes, when you cut into it, did it break apart so that the you know when I break when I cut into a braised onion and the skin flattens out and pushes all of the other parts of the inside of the onion away, I'm always like, no. You know what I mean? Do you know what I'm talking about?
+
+[33:09] Yeah, but if you if you see uh real nice Savannah onion cut it in two, it's like picture perfect. Really? So nice. It's all right. Yeah.
+
+[33:17] But you've never had an um uh you've never had an American-style sweet onion. But it's brace-free a long time then. No one ever does that because that's not something we do here. That's just not that it doesn't come up. I don't think, right, John.
+
+[33:28] Do we ever do that here? No, I don't think so. We braise we we only braise onions when we're doing like other people's cooking techniques. We've got the blooming onion from Outpack. Oh my god, have you had a blooming onion?
+
+[33:40] No. Oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute. It's the craziest. Wait, first of all, first of all.
+
+[33:47] It's very American, but very delicious. It can be horrific when it's wrong. When the batter on the inside's not cooked all the way through. So what they do is is they they have a special like uh like an onion press. It's like imagine you're doing like uh which muscle is this?
+
+[34:02] Triceps, whatever. You're doing like a pull down, right? And you have the onion and it goes blam and it cuts it into like almost like uh lotus petals, right? Then you soak it so that it like it opens up, right? Like this.
+
+[34:17] Then you take the whole onion and you dip it in in like a batter mix, and then you just deep fry the whole thing, and then you you put it on the on a plate with all sorts of like dipping sauce. And when done properly, it is delicious. Okay. When under fried, when the when the batter in the inside is not cooked, right? A nightmare.
+
+[34:39] What's the what's the West Coast think about the blooming onion? I have a crappy home version of like the cutting guide that we've done like one or two attempts. Yeah, it's not possible at home. I mean, like that's one of those tricks. No one here, am I the only person that's ever been to the Royal Canadian Pancake House before they closed?
+
+[35:03] I think so. Yeah. So they had the they did they instead of a blooming onion, they it wasn't, it was deep-fried, but not battered, but they had the blooming French toast. And so they did an entire loaf of bread that they would cut almost down to the bottom, like a Pullman style. Like they would cut almost down to the bottom, splay it open, like soak the whole thing in French toast mixture, Pan Perdue, if you don't want to call that after the French, and then uh and then just deep fry the whole deep fry the whole thing.
+
+[35:32] And none of these things are possible with a home fryer. Like just not you can't do that with a home fryer. You know what I mean? I guess if you had a giant kettle, if you're using a turkey fryer, you could do it like once and then your oil will get ruined. But it's like I don't know.
+
+[35:45] Well you have a butter and a butter sometimes. If you go to Japan, you go to a good tempura, they have a nice cooked uh onion and they put like a really tiny layer of uh tampura. You like uh you like tempura? I like tempuro before like a nice butter. I liked it when I was in uh Japan last year, it was like something else.
+
+[36:03] Yeah, yeah. No, it's it's good when you when you have it there. Like I I think like having other people try to do it in a kitchen and bring it to you, it's always I'd rather just have whatever the fried food is from the country where I am. In Kyoto is delicious. Speaking of fried food from where you are, are you uh are you a fruit man?
+
+[36:18] Are you a f are you a fry a fry cook or not? I like it. It's not that we serve it in a restaurant, but you ever you ever you ever do it? What is the what is the what is the technique that you like? Like first of all, what size French fry?
+
+[36:29] It starts with a good potato. Right. Oh, it's most important. And you have uh potatoes made in uh soil of clay. Yeah.
+
+[36:38] You have uh what's the name of not too much sugar in the potato, also. Yeah, it'll turn to two. When you're cooking them in on a hundred and forty degrees Celsius, then they're otherwise they're coloring too fast, and then uh you have a really nice colored fries, but it's not crispy. Do you rinse or do you go directly from the cut into the oil? Rinse?
+
+[36:54] All right, and then into 140. When I do it at home, I uh I cut my fries the day before and I leave them in water. Yeah, okay. All right. And 140C for how long?
+
+[37:03] Uh five minutes. Oh, so short spinning. And then I bake them, I bake them at uh 180 afterwards. For the second? Yeah.
+
+[37:10] Yeah. For finishing them now. Like super fast or no? No, also a few minutes, three minutes. Yeah.
+
+[37:16] How many millimeters is your fry of choice? A centimeter. It's like 10. So 10. So John at Temperance has small gauge fries.
+
+[37:28] It's fries. Are delicious. They crispy, but they're too small. Yeah. That's what most people like here, though.
+
+[37:34] No, that's not true. Right? Yeah. Nastasi doesn't like French fries, so I'm gonna discount her. Freeze.
+
+[37:41] But like how many, like how like how like what do you guys think? What's what is your favorite shape thickness of fry? Everyone. I want to hear everybody's take. I like thicker than shoestring, which is what's at my restaurant, but a little thinner than like typical Belgium.
+
+[37:56] So I kind of will have Z in between there. Yeah. To me, it's it must be between three-eighths of an inch and a half of an inch. That's that's the magic range. If you can make a delicious fry that's half an inch, what about you, Jack?
+
+[38:10] What'd you say? I think that's right. I was just agreeing with you. Yeah, well, a half inch is 12 millimeters. So like like that's the upper size for good.
+
+[38:18] And then the I don't know what three eighths is. It's gonna be like nine or ten, nine or ten millimeters. Like that's the lower range. That's that's the range. And John is below that range.
+
+[38:29] Maybe I'm gonna be too diplomatic, but I think it depends what you're having to fry. Wait. I was gonna use my mouth. What is it? What is it?
+
+[38:43] What is it that you what is it that you want a thin fry? First of all, thin fries also don't cool as well. Yeah. John's fries are like six millimeters. But then fry with a stick tartare.
+
+[38:53] You eat some uh maybe dinner fries, no? That's yeah. I'll agree with that. All right. Yeah, all right.
+
+[38:58] I had stick tartare every day last week. Have you been to Miami? No. They they do the the matchstick, the match stick potatoes on hamburgers. On the on their what are the what are they?
+
+[39:10] On a Cuban sandwich, it's classic. Yeah, the on the but what's the name of the uh mago diff uh is it fritas? They're Cuban burger though. Burger, eh kind of a burger. It's like it's burger-ish, it's burger adjacent.
+
+[39:24] Yeah, it's a burglar. Burgoloid, yeah. I'll tell you what, when I went to Sicily a couple years ago, everybody in the whole country it seems that everyone has French fries for appetizers. Yeah. Even if you're having pizza, you know.
+
+[39:35] As I mean, you know why? Cheap. They're good. They need to have the the pickles mayonnaise with it, no? Like Belgium?
+
+[39:40] First of all, I'm with you. Mayonnaise is God's condiment in general, but also for fries. Like mayonnaise, yeah, nothing else than uh mayonnaise and no sugar with it. In your in your mayonnaise? So you hate cupie.
+
+[39:53] If you go to uh to like a f a fruit shop or yeah in uh in Holland, there's a lot of sweets sweet sauces. I really don't like it. No? Jerks. They're ruining it.
+
+[40:03] What do they know? What do you think about that? Uh there's a bunch of fancy dipping sauces in that uh what's the name of the fr uh fry shop that's right on the main square in Ghent that's run by a Michelin Star Chef. From uh Sergio Hermann, yeah. Good.
+
+[40:14] You like his fries? They're good, but there's well, they're prepared, no? They're I don't know. They're cooked first and then dried, and then there's a little big process of it. Yeah.
+
+[40:23] Because the fries are always good. Yeah, yeah. So it'll be always crispy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's different than you, you have like a good potato you start with.
+
+[40:29] Uh, he has also good potatoes, not about that. Because the quality is really good, huh? Yeah, yeah. I went there right before the pandemic. The Belgium was the last place I went before the pandemic.
+
+[40:37] But he has truffle sauce, I think. Um, I need I don't know that I need truffles on my fries. I don't know. I mean, it's good. Like I mean, like, I think truffles, eggs, then you can eat fries.
+
+[40:49] So Quinn, what is what is the what is your optimum small fry food? Again, I think with a burger, if you're like sort of mentally referencing fast food, but you're making it from scratch. You know, you do a smash, a smash burger, and some you know, slightly thinner fries. Nah. I think that works.
+
+[41:14] Nah. I don't look it's for you. You you you get to choose. What do we say, Michael? We do the beef carbonate carbonate for me, the combination of the beef carbonado sauce with uh the mayonnaise and the fries.
+
+[41:23] That's for me. You put it a carbonate on the fries? Uh here's the thing. That would sell infinity in the US. In the US, we have this thing called gravy fries, but it's just crap gravy from a can at a dining.
+
+[41:39] Yeah. And it's fine. Like we like it. You like cheese on your gravy fries? Yeah.
+
+[41:44] Okay. But imagine like Carbonate fries. You taste that cheese. No, no, no. In Belgium?
+
+[41:50] Carbonate? Like the stuveness. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but like we America, we have our own gravy fries. They're just bad, but the carbonade is like what mustard do you do you use?
+
+[42:01] You put the bread and the mustard in your carvingard? You use this one? Tina then mustard. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
+
+[42:05] We have some of, by the way, God's mustard with us today. Yeah. But Michael, also I want to ask. So we're talking a lot about like stereotypical Belgian kind of foods and ingredients. What like what do you think about Belgian cuisine nowadays?
+
+[42:18] Like what are the main things that you like are interested in cooking that you think are better representative of that? Like I know you had a hopshit's special that I didn't get that night, but I don't like things like that that are. Yeah, it's a really seasonal thing. So yeah, more or less. I think everybody for sure the type of restaurant that I have.
+
+[42:34] If you want to work seasonal, you want to bring a kitchen with an own identity. Of course, I'm influenced by the past what I did, where I worked with chefs that I did. Um the restaurant exists now 12 years, so we are gonna say we've got our own identity and our own style, but it's influenced by French traditional. What is Belgium kitchen? Belgium kitchen is also like a little bit formed by the French kitchen, so but open-minded for the international influences.
+
+[42:57] I'm a really big fan of Japanese kitchen. So I will use pretty much umami taste. You won't always see it in a dish, but can make uh sauce more complex or yeah. So influenced. Speaking of ingredients I had never heard of that were on one of your reviews.
+
+[43:15] How do you even pronounce it? Like uh this fish from the North Sea. You put it in English, you would say pout. Pooh. This one.
+
+[43:25] And it looks like the back half looks like an eel and the front looks like the like a like a like a horse's hoof. It's a gross looking fish, disgusting looking fish. Poor P-O-U-R? Yeah. No, so it's poor poisson?
+
+[43:39] No, I don't know. I'm not familiar with it. Anyway, it's like one of these translations, but it's the ugliest fish. Do you cook a fish that is ugly as death? It looks like the back half looks like the.
+
+[43:48] Yeah, but there's a lot of a lot of fishes for sure in the North Sea who look not good, but it's I think my restaurant, like Gandhi's is situated 40 minutes from the coast. So the quality we get from the fish is like really, really good. Um theoretically wise, you can get like everyday new fish and every day. But of course, the fridge is really, really fresh. Just top to work with, no.
+
+[44:09] And I'm also an ambassador of the like a North Sea Chef movement. So from the moment that I start a restaurant, means that everybody uh more and less works only with uh fish from the North Sea. So, what are some good fish out of the North Sea that you don't get all over the world? For sure you have the seasons, uh the seasons like uh you go more to the summer, like now you go to the flat fishes, you're going to the the sole, uh the doversol. We have like the really big, nice thick ones.
+
+[44:34] So you have the sea boss with a sea boss line caught. How do you do your Dover Soul? Do you ever do the table side garbage? I love the table side garbage. What's a table side garbage?
+
+[44:44] Well, the filleting and presenting at the at the table. Yeah. Could do that, but I mean, do they ever do that in Belgium or not? I mean, like I still I think it's coming back. It's coming back.
+
+[44:54] I think one of the nice things. With the turbo, the big the big table side when the Yeah. I think one of the nice things that Michael does too is he greets everyone and then says goodnight, you know, at the end of the night. So it's like not necessarily doing the dishes, but he's still out there kind of doing his language. Doing the dishes is a weird thing that Thomas Keller like made popular because he's like, I do I like to do the dishes.
+
+[45:15] It's because he's perverse. He likes to do the dishes. It's not that it's not that he does everything in the restaurant, it's that he likes to do dishes. Yeah. Right?
+
+[45:24] So like don't take that as the sign of being a good or caring chef that you're sitting there scrubbing the pots. Well, no, no, I mean like he comes out and talks and no, that's it. I like that. That's hospitality. That's that's great.
+
+[45:35] For me, for me, when the people come and they arrive, they have a drink, they have the first appetizer, I go to the table and I give the explanation of the menus. So for me, it's also also nice to see to meet the people. So okay, that's the way I met uh Jean and you see, okay, there's somebody who's like uh he's feeling good. He's something who's somebody who's passionate about it. So it's nice you have a talk with people, and then okay, you feel already like as he open-minded for things.
+
+[45:57] I got sometimes such suggestions you could take that it's not on the on the menu that you know, like okay, this person will be open-minded for tasting things. Yeah. So thinking about this by like coming out and greeting, like running the restaurant in general. So it seems like the restaurant I'm trying to figure out how it works. Whenever I hear about somebody's restaurant, it doesn't do the same thing everyone else does.
+
+[46:20] So you have a relatively small restaurant, relatively relatively few color uh covers per night, and you don't how many days a week are you open? Four and seven. Yeah, yeah. So like how do you how do you make that work? Like when you're like working at a high level, everything's very difficult to keep going at a high level anyway.
+
+[46:38] Is that why you're only working a couple of days a week, but then the economics become difficult to to work with? Like how does how does it be a good thing? Well, it's not easy, it's a challenge for sure. I think for the whole uh restaurant, the whole hotel restaurant business to find the good stuff to go and to find the good people to get the job done. We were uh twelve full-time paid people, so I got some people like my second chef, my Metro Hotel, they work with me uh twelve years from the beginning.
+
+[47:02] So we wanna you want to have people who get keep on being motivated and being yes, taking part of the team. You see, like a new generation of people are yeah, they're more busy with also sites, projects of themselves and hobby and uh yeah, leisure time is uh also really important. So you feel like if you see in a in the restaurant, the restaurant business for sure in Belgium, there's like I think uh eighty percent of the high-level restaurants are open four days. Where do people eat the other days, or do you shift it around? Like this is the person who's open on the Sunday.
+
+[47:38] If you go if you go to the coast, everybody's open on the weekend. If you go to the to the cities, more and more restaurants are closing Saturday, Sunday. So my restaurants closed to Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. Alright, so people take note. There are good days and bad days to visit certain places.
+
+[47:51] Like what's the worst day of the week to show up in Belgium and be like, I'm gonna eat. Theoretically, Monday is like a lot of restaurants are closed. So what you're sure in Gent, if you if somebody else, yeah, Monday is really difficult, I think. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[48:04] Yeah. And on the US it'd be unimaginable. Like, I mean, I know two or three restaurants do it here in the US, but to be closed Saturday, Sunday, and Monday just never do it. You couldn't do it. Yeah.
+
+[48:12] Well, the other thing, I just don't know how I don't know how you would I don't know how everyone would get paid. Because you gotta pay the you gotta still gotta pay your rent. Suppliers, right? Suppliers. Your food has to stay in good stuff.
+
+[48:25] You need your prep done. So the prep needs to get done some of it anyway beforehand, right? You know, I guess it depends on on how you divise your menu, but like most of like even our stuff at a bar, yeah. I can't walk in in the morning and have service done ready by the night. You know what I mean?
+
+[48:41] And then they have lunch service going on too. So prepare. For sure, yeah. Tuesday is challenging. Tuesday is always like uh after three days, of course.
+
+[48:48] Um but on the other hand, like on a Friday, there's not much coming in anymore of ingredients because you have everything, more or less. Um what do you do? You can make a sauce, you can make a stock to make a good sauce the Tuesday. You can make bases that are are good. So you can vacuumate, you can preserve things in advance that you know to get started.
+
+[49:07] Otherwise, yeah, of course. If you start from scratch, it's so what's the best day to go to your restaurant? Wednesday? Because you've already slapped around your suppliers who were shafted you on the day that you reopened on the Tuesday. You've scrattened all that stuff out.
+
+[49:14] No, Tuesday to Friday, same level. I'm just messing with you. Uh all right. Um, hey Stas, I'm gonna trigger you here. One of the dishes, get this.
+
+[49:31] This is two things that Nastasia and I have an issue with. You do a pork loin cutlet, that's fine. Jerusalem artichoke and beetroot. So how what does this look like? First of all, Nastasia used to give people Jerusalem artichoke just to make their insides explode.
+
+[49:45] So, like, like how much how much uh Jerusalem artichoke are you getting and how are you cooking it? There's one one vegetable they can prepare like so good. Yeah. I think Jerusalem artichoke. You can make like the best chips of it.
+
+[49:58] Yeah. What do you what do you think? What do you call them in not English? At beer. Whoa.
+
+[50:12] Art beer. It's like uh yeah. See, that's like I only know I know the French and I know the English. Yeah. I'm a big fan of that.
+
+[50:20] Yeah? Yeah, and season we use it a lot. So Nastasia used to cut them up raw and put them in salads to mess with her friends. And their insides went to the body. Does it affect you or not?
+
+[50:29] Does it not affect you? Really? No. That's really good. Okay.
+
+[50:32] I inflate like a balloon. Yeah. Like when I eat those, oh my god, my insides feel like I feel like I'm you ever see the movie Scanners when the guy explodes. He just explodes. Take a look tonight.
+
+[50:43] Yeah, he's like sitting down and you know, and he just his head just boom explodes. That's my insights on on uncooked. Came from the warm wrong form, right thing. Yeah. Well, no, it's just like all the inulin, man.
+
+[50:55] And so and then beetroot. How do you do the beetroot? How does it come? So Nastasia likes when you hand her one big undercooked beet and a fork. Is that what you do?
+
+[50:59] Because that's what she loves. Undercooked, yeah, it's disaster, no? Yeah, well, so it's so uh well. We cook it in a salt crust, if we if we prepare it. So uh and then I make the sauce also.
+
+[51:14] We have a part of the beetroots you centrifuge, and then I put it, then I reduce it on the stove like for uh 80%. Do you really have a nice syrup with it? You can put like a little jam or some fruit with it. And then um the beetroots, you bake them two hours and two or two hundred degrees, two hundred degrees of Celsius in the salt crust, let it cool down in the salt crust, then take the skin off. And then for me, that's maybe one of the basic the best dishes that I found that I the vegetables did that we did was like a combination of uh braised, like a salt crust braised um beetroot, then we grill it all a minute, and then we get some uh beyonnaise with it.
+
+[51:50] It's like a really classical beyond sauce with uh beetroots for me, like such a combination. But the beetroots, you cut it in pieces, so you grill it, and then the sauce that I was talking about, like the reduced syrup of the beetroot, you put it around it so you glaze the beetroot with that, and then aside that you give the bearnay sauce, but like a classical terrican bearnaise, terrigen vinegar. So, what's the texture of the beet after all of that? My favorite beet texture. Remember when uh like maybe seven, eight years ago everyone was doing like semi-dehydrated beets and then cooking them and they got kind of chewy?
+
+[52:20] Like what's the texture of this one like? No, you don't want you don't want it beaten that it's crispy, no? Right. I really like it. The things you just said when you cut it really thin, but it's like more for like a salad or I like this, like the texture also, but it needs to be it needs to be cooked.
+
+[52:31] Right. Um, if it's not enough enough cooked. I don't like it. Yeah, though. So it needs two hours.
+
+[52:37] For me, like uh the size of a tennis uh tennis ball. It's two hours, two hours, two hundred degrees. But does it come so but with at the plate, you're not so it's still the size of a tennis ball, but it's been cooked. No, we cut it, we cut it and we grill it. Ping pong ball.
+
+[52:49] Trim it a little bit nice. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, Nastasi and I got uh ruined once by someone serving us like a giant undercooked beet. And ever since then we've been like uh it coxcomb, are you cooking the the plant coxcomb or the actual comb of uh rooster, a rooster like head piece? Which vegetable you're talking about?
+
+[53:11] Well, is it a because there's also a plant called coxcomb? I don't know if you can eat it, but it's say like on the menu, it's saying you do coxcomb. But I was wondering whether you're talking about the bird part. Uh like head the cook. Oh kick.
+
+[53:23] Yeah. So how do you cook that? Is it delicious? Is there it's uh it's a it's a gelatine texture, no? So there's a lot of people who don't like it, but like in the really classical uh if you gotta pull at the breast, uh like a vollevent or make a nice full of vent, they also uh I did it before.
+
+[53:40] Yeah. They put like the stomach. And how many do you get? How many do you not too much? You should you first gonna boil them in a stock.
+
+[53:46] Right. And then you need to take like a little little skin on it, gonna scrap it off. Takes a long time. But there's like also a hard piece where it's attached to the to the head. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[53:56] Gonna take that off. But when it's really nice cooked and you put it in a hot sauce, it's like a really nice jelly texture. Is it like similar to like uh duck tongues are kind of jelly-like? Isn't it? That's meat.
+
+[54:07] A duck tongue is really is it's more meat. And that that's really like it's it's glazy, if you see. Yeah. I've never had a coxcomb as far as I know. It's good.
+
+[54:15] It's good, yeah. How many do you get on a plate? How many do you want to get? You know, you're not gonna you're gonna you're gonna have a stew, or you're gonna have a like piece, a piece of a fillet of uh chicken, you're gonna have some uh minced meat of the same uh chicken uh legs. Um I'm gonna put like a little piece of the yeah, let's talk, not a whole piece now.
+
+[54:33] No. No, the people are gonna run away then. I mean, I wouldn't. You're gonna serve it to the people, you're not gonna say it and when they eat it like you like that, yeah. When they know what they eat, like, oh my god.
+
+[54:41] Really? But they like it. Even in Belgium, though? Or is that more of a body's open-minded for that now? Really?
+
+[54:46] Yeah. Huh. Hmm. All right. Good to know.
+
+[54:49] Now, I read, now it could be wrong because half the things I read on this uh thing were mistranslated, so I don't know. But uh it seems like we might share the same favorite cheese. You are a Vachram Mondor fellow, like I am. Yeah, for sure. That's God's cheese.
+
+[55:04] Vachron? Yeah, that's crazy good. Vachram Mondor is like Jesus' cheese. But we can never get a really good one here. It's true.
+
+[55:12] Must be not pasteurized, no? People lie, they cheat, but something about like the shipping. I don't know whether it's like the way that they have to pack them to ship or you know, uh, I don't know. But it's just like if you've ever gone during the season to buy them, I mean I I have like two or three shops. I've only ever really bought them in Paris over there, but there's two or three shops I go to, and it's just like that's all I want.
+
+[55:36] That's all I want, like all day. I just want that and some bread. And it's like but it's a winter cheese, huh? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[55:43] And so I used to go, I used to go to Paris every like uh late January for uh a trade show that my wife used to go to, and I would go, so I would be like, I would just only eat vacherin. That's I was doing I was doing it on the last menu that I served to the people. I when I have my tasting menu, there's always a cheese preparation inside. So the last menu that I did in uh January, we did a preparation of uh Vacherin Mondor. But the thing was the the concept of the dish that I that I was thinking of was like, okay, it was what is good.
+
+[56:09] You put a Vachin in the oven, then cook some potatoes with it. Okay, I can't serve that on in my restaurant because okay, it's not original. And it's I want to do something with potato and with the cheese. So what we ended up at the end we uh we had an apple, so uh like a golden una golden uh apple. We uh really cooked it in a syrup, we take it out, and we had like uh yeah, the piece of the apple we filled up with the Vacherin Mondor, put it in the oven, and then some caramelized uh apple with uh the nice syrup of the apple with uh laurel with it.
+
+[56:37] So the people loved it. With what? With laurel? Laurel, laurel leaves. Like same like bay?
+
+[56:41] Bay leaf, bay leaf, yeah. Well, you want to tell us also about your um stilten ice cream dish? Yeah, that's preparation of stays on the corn. Like I think we do it like seven years now, and uh it was voted seven years ago like the best dessert of uh the year from a guide from a Goimio guide. So how stilton, how stilton y is it?
+
+[56:59] How salty is it? It is, but it's it's more less salty than a rock four, we know. Rug for it's a salt bomb. Well, what the the original idea of the dish was we had we had a taste plate, uh plates, a cheese plate with uh pieces of uh I'm just saying eight pieces of cheese, and it was also like a piece of uh stilton with it. And more or less every time there was like breaking a piece.
+
+[57:19] Oh, it's not nice enough to put on the plate. So at the end of the month, like uh the guy was saying, Hey, I have a big uh bag here, it's pretty much okay. I vacuumed it, but what do we need to do with it? Okay, it's an expensive cheese. So okay, we end up to do like uh we're gonna let's make I'm gonna make a base and we're gonna make uh an ice with it.
+
+[57:34] And then we make the ice with it, so I tasted it was like okay, yeah, like uh the little chocolate reminding taste, the cocoa taste, but it's okay, blue cheese and chocolate is good. So we ended up make like the ice with it, so then we gave a vinaigrette of a vinjone and apple with it. Some almonds, roasted almonds, and then we put some powder of cocoa in it. People love it. So there's no truck there's the the the chocolate chocolate's just on the outside, or the chocolate's also with the cheese in the in the ice cream.
+
+[57:57] It's just or just a pizza chocolate with it. No chocolate with it, huh? Just a little bit of cocoa powder in the colour. Some solid, some mold and salt with it? Yeah, two more.
+
+[58:07] So the Vanjon, like uh, do you use the I'm sure you're fancy, so you probably actually reduce it, but like they make do you know they make the these kind of like not quite vengeans that you can use for for reductions. Do you use that one or do you use a big one? Like a vinegar, also we use, huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that's also so expensive.
+
+[58:26] I like it. Delicious, yeah. You like the bottles too? They got the coolest little bottles. They do have really nice bottles.
+
+[58:32] But it's just so expensive. You know who uses that? Used to use that all the time? Jeremiah at Baracontra. I know what I ate this week.
+
+[58:39] I went to Temperance. The Temperance Wine Bar had a had a good good chunk of your menu. You're gonna go see American Belgique. No, you're gonna have no time this trip, I believe. So where have you eaten so far here?
+
+[58:51] Well, 11 minutes and pork Clement Bar, Estella we did also really nice. Yeah. And today we had the Apollo bagel with the liked it. It's really good. You could do a whole bagel trip.
+
+[59:04] Did you go do you have any of uh any of the things? That's your first bagel ever? Which one did you get? What'd you get? The smoked salmon.
+
+[59:12] Yeah, but smoked salmon. What kind of bagel making everything bagel? The one with the sesame. What kind of bagel? Sesame or everything or plain sesame and everything.
+
+[59:22] Okay, everything. Okay. Sesame is a good choice, but everything. Everything's the way to go, yeah. If you need listen, if you listen, you gotta go to Russ and Daughters, not for the bagel, their cream cheese.
+
+[59:32] Get the best bagel you can get. Get their plain cream cheese, not their flavored cream cheese, which is just Philadelphia. But Philadelphia is a fine product, right? But their plain cream cheese. They also have one of the best fish, like cured fish counters.
+
+[59:44] Yeah. And get their get their locks on it. Oh man. All right. So so yeah, that's the way.
+
+[59:51] But we're going to stretch this afternoon, so. Yeah, yeah. Well, uh, yeah, yeah. Good. Yeah.
+
+[59:55] I called uh I called Wiley. You're gonna go in there. So he's like, he's like, why? He's like, why does someone come from Belgium and they want to eat pizza? I'm like, everybody likes pizza, dude.
+
+[1:00:03] Coming from New York. Coming to New York. What's pizza? What else are you gonna? How when you when are you flying back?
+
+[1:00:09] Uh tomorrow. Tomorrow afternoon. Son of a gun. Yeah. All right.
+
+[1:00:11] So you okay? So pizza. Chef Stable Brooklyn for it tonight. Okay. All right.
+
+[1:00:16] All right. Well, that's good, good, good trip. Anyway, thanks for coming on the show. Welcome back anytime. Oh, wait, we didn't even open the fancy mustard.
+
+[1:00:22] Give them the name of the super fancy mustard. Tirantan. Right from the square in Ghantha. Yeah, but there is one that's not real that sounds just the same. That's true.
+
+[1:00:30] Can't remember what that one is. So it's like an offshoot one, too, right? Yeah. Before we go, because I know we're late. Do you guys have any more secrets about the mustard?
+
+[1:00:37] Because the lady will not talk to me. I found out that after they make it, they let it sit for two days and then they start piping it upstairs. But I don't know anything else about it. And they still use that same half wooden barrel bucket. Yeah.
+
+[1:00:48] Oh man, it's such a good mustard. Sharp mustard. Yeah. If what you folks want is honey mustard, look elsewhere. Yeah.
+
+[1:00:56] Great. Anyway, thank you for coming on. Appreciate it. All right, cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you alive from the Heart of Manhattan Rugged Fellow Center, New York City, New State of Studios, joined as usual with John. How you doing? Do great thanks. Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels.
+
+[0:22] What's up? Hey. Sorry about that intro right there. Mess that one up. Yeah, I'm just sitting there like an idiot, staring in his face.
+
+[0:30] You know, yeah, true to form. Uh got Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. What's up? Hi. Hi, hi.
+
+[0:38] We do not have Mr. Molecules. I don't know what he's doing. I'm hoping he's getting his teeth ripped out, so I don't have to hear about No. Oh, son.
+
+[0:47] Oh, no. So he's so he's that he's at Doctor. He's at Dr. Coachella, I bet. Uh I wonder whether he saw the uh Weezer set after the uh the the wife of the Weezer guy uh shot shot at a cop and then got shot in the shoulder.
+
+[1:07] Or no, she didn't shoot at a cop. It's the weirdest story of all time. Someone's running through her backyard, right? So she comes out with a gun and then gets shot in the shoulder. Random.
+
+[1:16] And then they play Coachella like three days later. Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[1:20] Hollywood, crazy place. Yeah. Crazy, crazy place. Uh, and in the upper, upper left, left, left, Quinn. How you doing?
+
+[1:29] Hey, I'm good. Good, good. Um, all right. So it's just us today. What do we got?
+
+[1:35] It's a uh, you know, no tangent Tuesday, which of course means only tangents. If you happen to be listening on Patreon and want to call in some questions, call in live to 917 410 1507. That's 917 410 1507. Uh, and tell them why they might uh wanna be on the Patreon so they can call in. Other than just calling in.
+
+[1:52] Yes, no. Whole bunch of uh perks. You get your questions answered uh first when you send them in, or you know, within the most timely manner that we can do it. Um then uh discounts with a lot of the great people that we work with, like Matt over at Kitchen Arts and Letters, uh the great folks over at Glassvin, uh Nick over at Grovenvine Olive Oil. I mean, yeah, just a lot of great things.
+
+[2:16] So check it out. Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Captain Oily, Mr. Mr. Bansuri, Bansurian bass.
+
+[2:22] He plays anything with a B in it. You think he can play a bassoon? Probably. Stas, see if you can play bassoon. I used to play a bassoon.
+
+[2:31] Really? Mm-hmm. Middle school. Wow. Taller than me.
+
+[2:34] What made you pick up the bassoon? Why the bassoon? Tallest instrument in the class. And that's what you did. You're like, give me the tallest.
+
+[2:39] I'm the shortest, and I always play the tallest. Man. So my double read. So how does that like so how's that work? Um it was a really interesting pucker on the mouth.
+
+[2:49] Um, but it was the two reads basically vibrating. It was cool. I just really enjoyed the instrument. I did really well with it. I played violin too, and um didn't really enjoy that.
+
+[2:59] So what made you drop the bassoon? How come you're not a bassoonist? We call them a bassoonist. Um I excelled very much in playing piano. Classical music.
+
+[3:07] I read classical and I just took off with it. Yeah? Yep. And so you're like, this bassoon is not for me. Nah, I mean, I was very good with my fan.
+
+[3:15] Yeah, yeah, good with the hands, played very fast. So, as a multi-instrumentalist, did that make you good at arranging? No. No, no. Didn't write my own music.
+
+[3:25] I played everything. I played every I read everything. Um, but I played everything that I enjoyed by ear. So, but arranging no. I was never a ranger.
+
+[3:36] I'm not a good sound designer. No. Not really. I know your skills, man. I I I have good ears.
+
+[3:42] I know what I like, but um, yeah. All right. Yeah. Uh so anyway, so what other B instruments can we get greasy to get on and play? Well, well, he'll learn it.
+
+[3:43] He'll learn. You know what? Joe can give him lessons. We'll rent, we'll rent a bassoon. Can you still go to a place and just rent an instrument?
+
+[3:58] I'm sure. Um, somewhere over here on like 34th Street and where the instruments are and all this. Well, I guess they're all gone, aren't they? Yeah, they're dead. They're all gone, right?
+
+[4:07] Yeah, yeah. Rogue music is gone. I I don't know, like, but that entire district is dead. Yeah, like you know, like everyone used to be like, oh, we're going in. We're gonna go see, we're gonna go.
+
+[4:16] You know what I mean? And like it's gone. We did it all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All the time.
+
+[4:20] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's awesome. Yeah. I mean, but uh I saw Rico Cassick in that neighborhood once back when he was alive. Weird dude.
+
+[4:28] Anyway, on to what we are uh what we were talking about. So, Quinn, what have you been doing with the spinzall and the uh uh so okay? So Quinn's been doing some experiments with uh spinzalls our centrifuge, right? So one of the things we've always done is make quote quote unquote butter, but we've never actually tested it to see that it is butter. We put it in the we put cream in the rotor and a solid comes out.
+
+[4:49] So your first thought is butter. Butter. Butter. But actually, we had some speculation before maybe it's not butter, maybe it's and Quinn thinks maybe the term of art, and we gotta talk this out, anti butter. What do you think?
+
+[5:03] Quinn, why don't you tell him tell him the tell him the story here? Uh yeah. Anti-butter or hyper cream. I like paper cream. I don't know.
+
+[5:11] Hyper cream just sounds so broy. You know what I mean? Hyper cream. And do you click on the cream and then get taken somewhere else? Cream?
+
+[5:19] What? Heaviest cream? Because it's already heavy cream. See? And light cream.
+
+[5:26] I didn't mind heaviest. I didn't mind it. So the whole point of it is is it's it's the um or inverse, it's the it's the actual. So butter is 80% fat, roughly, right? 82, right?
+
+[5:39] Percent fat. And the continuous face is phase is fat. So it is a solid fat with liquid water inclusions. It is a water in oil emulsion, right? Cream is a liquid, right, with probably solid fat globules suspended in it, but they're very small.
+
+[5:59] It is an oil in liquid emulsion. So the stuff that comes out of the spinzall, we think is still an oil in liquid, oil in water emulsion. In other words, it is like mayonnaise, just thick. So it but the benefit of that is that you can thin it out. And it so did you done have you had any successful tests with this yet, Quinn, or no?
+
+[6:25] Again, just my initial test where I essentially recombined the uh butter product, the butter phase, let's call it for lack of the phone. The anti butter phase, the inverse butter phase. It's not don't think of it as butter because if you no, but if you think of it as butter, yeah, but yeah, but so it's cheese. I mean, if you think of it in in as butter, then you're thinking of it. Here's the issue I have, and I've just wrote a whole crap ton about this about people who say milk clarified, right?
+
+[6:54] If you use improper terminology, even if you understand the difference, you're meant mentally in the back of your mind, pulling all sorts of other things into your mental conversation. And when other people who don't understand what you're saying hear a word that you use, right? They pull all of their like thoughts and ideas into it, and it leads to not understanding what you're doing. Not just in cooking. This is in every field where you have improper terminology or poorly made terminology.
+
+[7:23] Another one, milk washing. Crappy term I came up with. I should never have come up with that term. It was just one of the dumber coinages right up there with Hustino as stupid idea for me to have come up with milk washing because it's super confusing with fat washing, right? And then instead of using washing because it confuses people, people then say they're milk clarifying.
+
+[7:43] And the problem with saying you're milk clarifying is that then you think that using milk as a clarification technique is a neutral clarification technique, like using a centrifuge or even some gel techniques. Fact of the matter is it's a huge flavor stripper. So I think using proper or tr like thinking about your terminology isn't just a matter of, you know, being like correct or precise. It's a matter of making sure that the your future decisions will be good based on the intuitions that come with the terminology you use. See what I'm saying?
+
+[8:15] Anyway. Okay, well, let's let's go out the solid phase. Since it is solid. I mean, all right. The stuff that comes out of the rotor, what's what's chunky?
+
+[8:25] Yeah, all right. Yes. In my initial experiment, we re I recombined the solid phase with the original liquid phase that is separated from, and with relatively little you know, effort, it seemed to just recombine back into cream. Yeah. Um.
+
+[8:48] So yesterday I tested a different liquid that had less success. But I think I chose the wrong liquid to try first. Well, why do uh why why you why are you being so coy? Just tell them what you were doing so they know from that to start. What what was the liquid?
+
+[9:08] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Mainly because it's what I had around. I was drinking the tea all day like all day. And like, well, at least also I wanted something with the color so that I could see if it was like incorporating homogenously.
+
+[9:24] You don't own food you don't own food coloring? Well, okay, I don't I might not actually. But like my point is is that like I'm I believe before you did it, I was like, I don't know. T's pretty pe T's got a pot a lot of polyphenols. Gonna bind with the casein.
+
+[9:41] Might seize it up. I don't know. Somebody might have said that. Who was it? Oh yeah, me.
+
+[9:46] Me. Anyway, so I'm gonna I'm gonna run another experiment today with a more chemically neutral uh liquid. Although again it was interesting, the solid phase I made yesterday did appear more yellow than the one I made on Sunday. You mean prior to seizing? Yes.
+
+[10:10] Yeah, because one of the reasons that uh originally we thought maybe then you said you spun it. Was it was it warmer, colder? It should have been same same similar tinture. Right out of the fridge. Yeah.
+
+[10:22] And then same time. Hmm. Yeah, because usually the unit is not strong enough to break emulsions. So uh like that. So same brand of cream, same age.
+
+[10:39] Yeah, yeah, I mean, it was just what was left in the previous you know, jug of cream. Both no salt. Correct. Hmm. Interesting.
+
+[10:51] And one with a fresh container of cream. So I'm gonna do a double batch today. I might do just like two minutes left of speaking. And if that changes the yield a little. Yeah, so the our next step is to try to figure out what the fat content of this solid is.
+
+[11:10] And write in, see what you guys think the good term for for it is. You know, you've heard, you know, Quinn's ideas and you know, my lack of ideas. He thinks it originally what I like the problem with anti butter is it still has the word butter in it, but it is anti, right? So that like that helps because he's like it's the positron equivalent of like an electron in that it's the exact opposite. Because yeah, both because you got positrons and electrons do share a lot of other properties besides their charge, which is why it I think it works as an analogy, because other substance and butter do also have very similar properties in certain regards.
+
+[11:51] Yes, but they don't uh they don't annihilate each other and produce uh energy though. That's the one thing they don't read. I haven't tested it yet. That's true. I've never mixed I've never mixed regular butter with this product, but so uh what we're interested in what there's already a a brand of product called I Can't Believe It's Not Butter.
+
+[12:13] What do you mean it obviously? How do you not this isn't like always in the back of your head somewhere? And when you do it, you think of it, I think of Fabio, I can't believe it's not bothered spray. And then you gotta think of him getting hit in the face with a bird on the roller coaster. Which this is peak internet.
+
+[12:27] Watching Fabio get hit in the face with a bird, and he's not even he doesn't have a good sense of humor about it. You know who Fabio is, right, Quinn? Yeah, yeah. No, I'm saying it's a shame that already exists. Because wouldn't that be a great name for what we're making?
+
+[12:42] I can't believe it's not a butter. Yeah, you know what my friend always called it, I can't believe I bought this crap. Only he he used a slightly different different term. Oh man. Like I remember an era.
+
+[12:54] So okay, okay. So my grandparents, both sides actually bought margarine because they were depression era people. So they grew up like, you know, margarine because it's cheap. You know what I mean? And then my parents' generation were told to eat margarine because it was quote unquote healthy for them.
+
+[13:14] And then only the current generation grew up knowing that margarine not only tastes bad, but it's also a poison, right? And then they finally figured out how to make it, I guess, without the tr not that I, you know, necess I don't really know what the effects of trans fat are, but you know, I've read this in studies, but you know, I don't believe hardly anything that anyone tells me ever. You know, sky's blue, okay. That I'm good with. But the uh yeah, so now uh I saw another thing that now people are going back on on butter saying that whatever, just don't pay attention, eat what you like until your doctor has a specific reason why your particular body, your body in particular, shouldn't have X, Y, or Z.
+
+[13:49] That's when you gotta start start thinking about things, right? You know what we did? We tested you and we figured out that you in particular uh get hypertensive uh when you have extra salt. Not just, you know, you as a statistical number in space, but you an actual individual. Oh, okay.
+
+[14:05] Then you change your habits anyway. So also they they did do that too with my dad. They did do that. Son of a gun, I'm so sorry. So, like, so they but can he have all the salt he wants if he takes the proper medication?
+
+[14:19] And then that seems like a good choice. Like, I don't know what the side effects are, but if the side effect of not having the medication is I have to reduce my salt intake, I take the meds a hundred percent of the time, unless it's my nose falls off. Then well, if my nose falls off, but I can still smell, maybe I still keep the salt. You know what I'm saying? I don't know.
+
+[14:39] So what is there a medicine that can fix it or no? I don't I don't know. He's already on other medications. Like I don't know if there's like interactions. No, I'm gonna I think he's giving he's giving those other salt to try it.
+
+[14:55] Hey, Stas, what would you get? What would you give up? Would you would you get would you take the medicine no matter what the side effects were, or would you would you try to cut back on the salt? So um uh probably the medicine. Yeah, yes.
+
+[15:13] Yes, yeah, you take the medicine. Like like the side effects, like I say, would have to be severe. You know what I mean? Like to have because even if you didn't worry about salt, just the idea of having to worry when you sit down at the table, having table be stress instead of joy, is not worth it to me. You know what I mean?
+
+[15:32] Table as stressor instead of table as source of joy. Nightmare. Nightmare. Uh, you know what tastes bad? Salt substitutes.
+
+[15:41] I know we have some listeners, uh, you know, Patreon members who are uh who can't have salt for various reasons. I like, you know, there's gotta be a uh there someday I hope that like we get all I am hoping for all the technology in the world. I'm gonna get so crispy. When crisper when when we can just go to the pharmacy and crisp ourselves up and get crispy, like think of all the stuff we're gonna be able to do. Not just my flashlight in the middle of the forehead, which is what I want.
+
+[15:59] True. So you know my vision's bad. So everyone's like, why don't you just crispy your eyes so you can see in the dark again. I'm like, oh that's so much smarter than a flashlight in the center of my head. You know what I mean?
+
+[16:18] Some someone you know I think I'm getting I think I'm I'm I'm gonna cut mine for CRISPR first. I think I get I think I get first dibs. Yeah, yeah, yeah for sure. Are they are they working on stuff that could crispy that could help you out crispy? I mean I'm sure they I'm sure someone somewhere is doing if not exactly my condition, I'm sure they're doing something similar.
+
+[16:38] Yeah yeah yeah so you're saying we might not get like super crispy but you'll settle for just like a you know a little bit of a little bit of a nice pellicle on the outside of the crispness just like you know little little help. Yeah it it is it is just two genes. So well listen if anyone if anyone here is uh a crispy scientist, you know, we're here for you. Like you know we have uh you know we're all right Quinn? You're you're you're saying you want your you want to be first in line to the crisp parade.
+
+[17:03] Yeah. Oh yeah crisp yeah uh all right so uh what do you anyone cook any technique? I speak of pellicle I do have other cooking. All right what do you got? We broke down a um water buffalo chuck roast that we dry aged for 70 days and then we ground it into uh burgers.
+
+[17:33] It was quite good. So is there enough fat to protect the outside, or did you have to trim a boatload of meat off the outside of it? Uh we had to trim some, but it wasn't crazy. Uh-huh. And you know what's interesting about uh those kind of things is that you can really only measure drip or water loss off of the whole thing.
+
+[17:55] It's very hard for people at home to figure out how much they've lost out of the meat versus how much they've lost out of the outside part, you know what I mean? I think it's a it's a dish because no one has a as far as I know, or I haven't researched it. Maybe it is easy to like just jam a probe in like a soil moisture sensor and just be like boop boop because all of the meats, even when they're quote unquote dry, are still relatively high in moisture, right? So I don't know how I don't know how uh what's it called? Um how much resolution you get on those meters at the upper end of the scale.
+
+[18:28] Uh but uh yeah, because it would be interesting to know. Yeah. Like, did you measure the weight loss over the time on the whole piece or no? No, actually we we forgot to check beforehand. Because again, we weren't going for a particular you know, percentage loss, like with charcuterie.
+
+[18:48] Um, but I'm just curious to know what the loss is. You know, we had yeah, we had planned we had planned to unwrap it a lot earlier, but just life happened, but it was still good. Yeah. Oh, but it was it was totally wrapped in in the in so is wait, is it wrapped and in the fridge or where was it? Yeah, it was in the fridge.
+
+[19:08] Again, I use um it's called it's like uh I forget what the material is. It's some sort of plant-based like gel membrane. Like it's dry, but you wrap up your piece of protein, and then it just sort of regulates the moisture loss. So it slows down in a regular fridge. So like a collagen casing almost.
+
+[19:32] Yeah. But plant. Because God forbid you have meat against your meat. God forbid that an animal is killed to wrap your giant hunk of water buffalo. Okay, I think I think it just it just has the right uh properties in terms of regulating the moisture loss.
+
+[19:51] You know what my favorite uh my favorite like age, I think the age is just right, ground meat is Edwards. Very true. Edwards H. I have we're not all so lucky. What do you mean?
+
+[20:04] If they mail it, they can't mail it to you because of Canada. I mean, I I would assume not. Because I don't know. I mean, have you checked? I guess I could check.
+
+[20:16] Yeah. The only issue is you have to order the only issue with Edwards is you have to order a lot of it because if you don't order a lot of it, the shipping will kill you because it's shipped in a you know, it's an expensive way to have to ship meat. You know what I mean? Meat shipping meat is not cheap. You know what I mean?
+
+[20:29] So I think you you win more if you get more of it. You know what I mean? But his ground his ground beef. That far away, he's in California. I thought he was in the East Coast still.
+
+[20:48] No, Northern California, even. Yeah. Literally, he could put it on a paper airplane and throw it up to you. Well, not really, you'd have to go over Oregon and Washington. But does anyone even count those states?
+
+[20:58] Just kidding. You know what I mean? North that's northern Northern California. Just kidding. Just messing with you folks.
+
+[21:04] Um, yeah. Anyway. I try not to order from far away. You know this, Quinn? Have you actually looked at the numbers on anything that goes in a truck has completely wiped out the like the uh any sort of offset you might have?
+
+[21:21] Like the cheapest way is to ship something on a boat. I mean, carbon cheapest. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's like they're so efficient and they're so huge. You know what I mean?
+
+[21:31] That like shipping something a lower distance isn't the only metric of how much you're damaging the earth. If you just want to have stuff close to you because you feel like that's an interesting problem for you to have, kudos. You know what I mean? But like it would be so hard to actually judge things based on how much of a dent you're putting into the environment based on their shipping without a lot of knowledge. You know what I mean?
+
+[21:55] Whatever. I mean, knowledge I don't have anyway. Maybe you do, I don't know. Maybe you sit around studying this stuff all the time. I don't know.
+
+[22:02] It's it's interesting. It is still interesting to work with local water buffalo. I mean, that's just yeah, that's just fun for the whole family. Regardless. Do they make water buffalo cheese up there?
+
+[22:16] Uh yeah, I think one brand makes ricotta and not the real. Yeah, of course they don't. Not the water buffalo. Uh I can't get the milk. It sucks.
+
+[22:28] You can get the milk or you can't. No, I can't. You've tried and they save no crap on you. No, they're gonna go there and they just they turn all of it into stuff. Like yogurt as well.
+
+[22:41] Yes, okay, but if they turn all of it into stuff, then you if you email them and be like, I will pay whatever, give me like two quarts of it to F about with. You're saying they wouldn't? You're saying they're such a big operation that there's not a human who could be like, oh car. You know what I'm saying? I think we've tried that.
+
+[22:57] I have to go back and check. Yeah. I think my dad's tried that as well. Yeah. It all depends on who you get on the phone.
+
+[23:03] You know what I mean? Like sometimes you get really cool people on the phone. Sometimes you get it might be an insurance thing. They might not be licensed to sell you uh, you know. Yes, yeah, that's the other thing.
+
+[23:12] But you know, if it's not an insurance thing, there's nothing what's the skin off their nose? Like the one that makes me angry is I came so close to getting the two billion year old water from the Timmins mine in uh in northern Ontario. It's a huge, it's a it's this, I think zinc mine, and it's like a couple kilometers deep. They tapped into a reservoir of water that hasn't been evaporated and re-rained, hasn't gone through the water cycle in over two billion years. I'm like, you can get me some.
+
+[23:41] You know what I mean? And they're like, it tastes bad. I'm like, just get it. Just get it. You know what I mean?
+
+[23:47] And they're like, and this guy was like, I have some on my counter. I call I'm looking at it right now. I'm like, give me some. And then like it's privately owned, and I think that like their boss was like, nah, and then he moved his job, so I never got it. I wanted to make the old fashioned with like a little bit of like this in as like a bittering agent, because it's got like so it's so heavily mineralized because it's been chilling underground for two billion years.
+
+[24:10] That uh, and then like it just never happened. But it and it's literally just leaking and getting wasted. It's literally just like they're a mining, someone hit it with a stick, Moses style, water comes out of the rock, and it's just leaking. You know what I mean? It's just a waste.
+
+[24:25] You know what I mean? Hate it. Hate. Hate. Yeah.
+
+[24:29] Hate. So it's just a question of who you get on the phone, man. Get yourself some water buffalo milk. Hey, Stas, you want to hear something you're gonna enjoy? Yeah.
+
+[24:38] Okay, okay. So I'm riding to the show this morning, right? And this truck is you know how trucks can be a pain in the butt. Like they can't decide what side of the street they're gonna be on, but either side, they're gonna, they're gonna tear my like you know, human form into shreds on my bike, right? So I go around them, but then I have to stop real short.
+
+[24:58] I stand up like I'm gonna stop. I go back down onto the seat. The seat catches my pants just wrong, rips the crotch straight out of them. I am basically wearing chaps at this point around the city, and I have no extra pair of pants. So I'm just walking around, breeze coming into my, you know, in into my legs.
+
+[25:16] I'm like, you know what? I don't care. I don't care. Crap on all these people. You know what I mean?
+
+[25:20] Anyway. Uh it's like um, I'm akin to the uh remember the cowboy, the naked cowboy who would wear underwear? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm like that, but not buff.
+
+[25:30] But walking around all my all my all my stuff on display. Well, what what little there is. So I thought you'd appreciate that, Stas, because you like whenever I have an embarrassing situation happen in uh public, that's your that's your feeling. So you're like that, you're like that right now. Yeah.
+
+[25:45] Yeah, yeah. Big big old hole. I I could yeah, big old hole. Like, big old hole, big old hole. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[25:54] Like, and in like the weirdest, like literally, like imagine you're coming back down on the bike and the point of the bike seat grabs your pants and it's like, nope. And just like, because it and it just goes in at the seam and just goes shroom and just like you know, rips it open. That's how I am right now. I mean, I can still button them, but it's like I say, it's like chaps. Yeah.
+
+[26:17] Remember, I know everyone's always said this, but just they're just chaps. You do not need to say that they are assless. Just chaps is all that's required. You know what I mean? Show me the pair of chaps with a butt, and then you then you have your your point.
+
+[26:30] Well, I guess mine still have a butt. There's crotch. These are more crotchless pants. These are more like if Frederick of Hollywood made pants for me, it would be this. You know what I mean?
+
+[26:41] Crotchless pants. Uh oh, hey, we're still selling the spins all 2.0 on sale, right? Gotta do that. Sell it. How much will I still on sale for $850 USD?
+
+[26:55] Yeah, and I think we're gonna keep it on sale until the ones uh are off the water. Right now we've got, you know, centrifuges on the water, fire in their eyes. Bam, bam, bam. We're gonna see when those things get in, you know what I mean? Anywho, uh, it's a good time to buy a centrifuge, especially if this trick with the butter, because what Quinn wants to do, and the issue is is if we can make it not seize, right?
+
+[27:17] Is imagine Quinn's goal is to make like a Burmonte that's refrigerator stable. Like texture of bur Bermante with those flavors in it, but it's just a liquid that you could just keep in your f in your fridge. And just you could do it cold, you could do it what I don't know if it's gonna work or if it's gonna seize up. I'm also gonna test basically a holland day that you assemble cold, stir it in the fridge, and then just drop it in a bath and see if it'll work. Yeah, why wouldn't it work?
+
+[27:53] Why wouldn't that work? I mean, like people have been I I you know, no one no one I mean everyone does from cold hollandaise now. I think nobody does the old school. Yeah, but then you have to don't you have to blend it afterward. With a whisk.
+
+[28:08] Oh, yeah. You don't need to like do anything crazy. Right? I don't do anything crazy with it. Hollanday is delicious.
+
+[28:15] My favorite. So good. So Hollandaise, you know, it's just a delicious, delicious, delicious sauce. Eggs Benedict is my last meal. Really?
+
+[28:25] It's like a tub of Hollandaise. Okay, so what is what is your ham of choice on a Benedict? Oh. You know, I'll admit I hadn't really thought that one through. You cheap or expensive?
+
+[28:36] Taylor pork roll? Taylor pork roll, good. Probably not Taylor pork roll, just I don't know, regular like quote unquote Canadian bacon that we have. No, no. Don't no, no.
+
+[28:46] No. First of all, if it's gonna be Canadian bacon, like like send away to Toronto and get real P meal P meal bacon, because that stuff's actually good. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Here's a good what?
+
+[29:01] Benedict with uh Mortadella. That'd be pretty good. I thought that'd be good. Yeah, probably good. Needs slightly more salt, but good.
+
+[29:10] Uh get this. So for those of you who are eating for a small group of people, like one, two, right? And you want to get yourself a tailored pork roll. If you don't know what a tailored pork roll is, why haven't you lived in the New York New Jersey, Connecticut major metropolitan area ever? But whatever.
+
+[29:27] It's like a it's like a describe this shape, John or Joe. Describe this shape. Taylor pork roll shape. Cylinder-ish. Yeah, but it's like it's like imagine if a liverwurst got big.
+
+[29:41] Yeah. No, but it's a cylinder and the edges are rounded, right? Yeah, but it's more like uh, yeah, it's it's like it's pretty big around. Like a big long pill. And they weigh like, I think two and a half, three pounds or something like that.
+
+[29:57] You know what I mean? They're so so it's it's it's a lot, right? Considering that you're only eating a couple slices of it. So what you should do before is you should uh pre-slice it, separate it with parchment, put it in a ziploc, and freeze it, and the parchment will make it so that it's super easy. That's what I've been doing, because I'm the only person in my house right now that eats it because Dax isn't away.
+
+[30:17] And so, like any time I'm cooking a breakfast, I'm like, I'm just gonna get two slices of tailored pork roll. And it lasts for infinity because it's in the in the freezer. The parchment they pop right out. They're so thin they thaw instantly, almost like the old stakehams used to, they stall saw instantly in the pan. So I don't pre-pac man them.
+
+[30:35] I pac-man them after they after they start to render out a little bit. I could pre-pac man them. You have to pac-man a tailored pork roll, otherwise, if you don't if you don't make that slice into the center, they cup up like a pepperoni, and then you're the the underside's not touching the pan. And then when you flip it, then only the one point touches. So you're just doubly dumb.
+
+[30:55] You're just the worst person in the world, two times in in in five minutes. So if you just Pac-Man it, if you just make that slice into the middle, then it lays flat. I've already talked about this on the air, but to any of you guys, when you were kids make what's called sea sausages? No. Oh my god, really?
+
+[31:12] So if anyone has kids, this is uh this is a I loved this. Of course, this was the 70s, right? You take hot dogs, I think they must have been skinned, right? It was the 70s, I don't know. And you cut them long ways in half, and then when you cook them, they bend into C's because the the this outside shrinks and the inside doesn't, so they turn into like C shapes.
+
+[31:35] And so we used to call them sea sausages. I eat the heck out of those. Well, I've seen a similar concept where you maybe turn hot dog pieces into little octopus food. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that.
+
+[31:47] But uh well, I guess like who else? Some people do that. Some people score their hot dogs and do all like Toronto does some weird crap with their hot dogs, right? When they cook them. Weirdos.
+
+[31:56] Uh I can't think of something in particular. Yeah, but anyway, it's a good trick. Kids I used to love it. We put all kind of spices on the hot dog when you were gonna make because hot dogs you don't spice, but sea sausages, you can spice. Because spice sticks to the cut side.
+
+[32:10] You with me? Yeah. And then you can also like before they curl, you can get that cut side down and you can get some crispiness on that, and they put around, but you can even just make them in a toaster, they'll curl up in a toaster. I like anything that does that. You know what uh the old trick they used to teach for squid when you're stuffing squid, turn the squid inside out, and then they they close up on themselves better when you stuff them.
+
+[32:32] So you take the area you're gonna stuff, pop it inside out, those weird fins go on the inside now, and it makes like a nice trim-free squid machine. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[32:46] Yeah. I'm here for you, man. Although I cannot cook squid in my house less and it's fried. Because Booker will brook no other form other than calamari. You know what I mean?
+
+[32:59] Other than fried calmari. And it is delicious. It is delicious, but it just smells so the leftovers just smell horrible. Like squid trimmings, like is it our house perpetually smells like some form of squid, either like that iodine note that squid ink has, or f and it like it smears everywhere, or like you know, squid drippings or salmon or salmon drippings or salmon skin drippings or tuna filth. It's just one big like fish place.
+
+[33:28] It's like freaking nuts. Drives me crazy. Uh right. Stas, you have any good food this last week or no? No.
+
+[33:38] No. Any any any uh any interesting uh like going home and mixing your your chicken and rice? I still haven't tried this rice. They don't have it at my local Trader Joe's. I gotta get a brand name.
+
+[33:49] You have to go to Whole Foods. All right. I will try. Uh Elliot writes, I've heard people mentioned damaged starch as a consideration for milling flour. Uh at times I get the impression that milling finer makes more of it and that it absorbs more water.
+
+[34:05] That's both of those are true. Uh there's a direct relationship between in a stone or in a in a disc in an attrition mill as opposed to a roller mill, there is a direct relation between the for a given wheat, uh, between uh how finely you mill, how hot it gets, and how much damaged starch there is. Um, you know, especially on a single pass milling situation. Uh I don't know what to do with that information. If I want to make a cool, tasty sourdough with freshly milled hard red winter wheat, how do I decide how fine to grind and how does it interact with how fine to sift if I'm sifting?
+
+[34:41] Well, uh, I'm trying to figure out the second part of that. Um, you know, more info in a couple of months. Um I am might get access to some really cool equipment that lets me actually measure the uh all of these things out of home mills, and I have an invite, which I need to get back to them on, uh, to go up and and measure it, in which case uh I can tell you, but I have to wait until uh I'm done with my current round of bull crap before um I can get to it. But basically, the harder a wheat is, the finer you can grind it before it starts smearing. So if you take a soft wheat, so for instance, uh a wheat that I had really liked in the past was um uh Rouge de Bordeaux.
+
+[35:20] It's a great, it's a French wheat, kind of like a nice French wheat, got a great flavor. And I had been milling it for a while, but it was out of stock. Like you couldn't get it for like over a year. You couldn't buy it. And I bought, so when it came back in stock, I bought 40 pounds of it, right?
+
+[35:35] And so 40 pounds of it comes to my house. Now I have 40 pounds of rouge de Bordeaux. And this stuff doesn't mill anything like the rouge de Bordeaux I had before. It still has a nice flavor, but this batch is a lot softer. It didn't have a protein number on it, and it's a lot softer.
+
+[35:51] And what that means is that when I really choke down on my mill, which is what I normally do for when I'm grinding for flat for bread, uh, because I I I choke down on the mill when I'm trying to do that, right? Is it smears and glazes over the stone. So it just it dies. And then you have to take the whole thing apart, you have to grind rice through it to get your stones clean again. And so I haven't been able to make as good a rouge de Bordeaux bread with this stuff.
+
+[36:17] Made great pancakes, but it hasn't made as good a rouge de Bordeaux bread as I had before. So a lot depends on your wheat. If you have a hard enough wheat, you can then choke down and get like a decent amount of starch damage, right? But it's very hard to know uh when you sift, because when you sift something that's been ground differently, it looks a lot different. If you take a microscope or even your iPhone, if you have an iPhone, I mean I'm sure Google phones do it as well, but you do the macro mode and you get close, you can get a pretty decent picture of what the brand looks like post-sift, and they look very different.
+
+[36:49] So it's very hard to know. But typically in a soft wheat, the stuff the uh starch granules aren't bound together as hard. There's not enough protein holding those starch granules together. So when they break apart, they tend not to get damaged. So no matter how finely you grind a uh a softer wheat, you'll have less starch damage than you will in a hard wheat, where just the act of cracking it apart is gonna break some of the starch granules.
+
+[37:14] And broken starch absorbs something like three times, you know, three or four times as its weight in water as opposed to regular starch, which you know, uh which if you take cornstarch and you make a one-to-one mixture of water and cornstarch, it's a liquid. You know what I mean? Because that starch is absorbing almost nothing. You know what I'm saying? Whereas uh damaged starch can absorb tremendous amounts of water, so it really, really, really increases the amount of absorption that you have.
+
+[37:42] However, when you're baking, if you have amylase activity, like let's say you add malt, then it can die out in the uh in the in the oven because the amylase, as it heats up, it's a fairly high temperature enzyme, will eat that damaged starch, you'll lose your water holding capacity before you set the set the protein in the dough, the protein structure in the dough, and boop, you collapse out. So damaged starch is one of those things where like you want some of it, but you don't necessarily want too much of it. Now, if it's a flatbread, then go for it, you know what I mean? Because then you if you like like a pita, uh well, I don't know about pita, I haven't studied it actually. But like it like a tortilla or you know what one of these kinds of things, you or shapati, like damaged starch is your friend because it's increasing the amount of liquid you can dump into the dough and still not have it be sticky.
+
+[38:32] And you want that because you want it to puff. So you want a very high hydration dough that's relatively easy to handle, and so damaged starch is your friend. And that's why when they're measuring the flour that's coming out of the atta, the atta flour they're coming out of the uh, oh, what's the word? CH something, the grinder they use to make the Indian uh atta flour, it's very, very hot, and the starch is very damaged. And so because they're looking for maximum water hydration, uh uh hydration for that double.
+
+[39:01] Anyway, I hope that helps. Um we did this, did we decide that this person is butts or butes? I think it's butts. Or butes. Or buts.
+
+[39:14] But uh, is there an easy way to convert the absolutely diabolically stupid system of imperial measurements uh from cups, ounces, teaspoons, tablespoons, or three quarters of a teaspoon directly into grams or milliliters. No. No. No. There's not.
+
+[39:35] So no. No, look, get this. Guess how stupid this is. So let's do this as a group project. So, Nastasia, like we're never gonna build that scale, right?
+
+[39:44] Oh, I don't know, Dave. I mean, don't give away your shit because you like it's not working out right now. God. I thought we weren't okay. All right, anyway, point is no.
+
+[39:59] Uh uh, no, you can't because it could well look. You can blame all of this on a group of very well-meaning people uh in like the late 1800s, early 1900s who were trying to quote unquote make cooking scientific, and they did it with these units in the United States. And then we've been stuck with them kind of ever since. Like the Fannie Merritt Farmers of the World, uh, you know, the Boston cooking schools of the of the universe, like all of those recipes. So you went from a system of no measurements at all to something much more scientific, but using implements that you might have around the house.
+
+[40:44] And it's just a nightmare. So, like, for instance, whenever I see a recipe and it's like two cups of slivered almonds, I'm like, oh. What the hell does that mean? You know what I mean? Am I measuring the nuts and then slivering them?
+
+[41:00] Like, what the hell? Like powdered sugar, do I pack it? Do I not pack it? Brown sugar, everyone knows you gotta pack brown sugar, right? And so in general, what I'll do is I keep my own list of uh kind of my standard, like what those things are.
+
+[41:16] So, like, flour is widely variant. So if you ask some person what a cup of flour is, they'll say it's 109 grams. Other people say it's 120 grams. It really depends. It's that's a very big range, right?
+
+[41:27] I think my standard is I forget like 112 or something like that, really also depends on the kind of flour you're using. Powdered sugar did a weird, you know what I mean? So no, there's not an easy, there's not an easy way because if things had a uniform density, then you could just look up a number. But the fact of the matter is is that they don't have a uniform density most of the time. Certain things, sugar even granulated sugar, you can you can like quote unquote tamp it down.
+
+[41:55] If you take a if you take sugar and then put it into a cup, strike it off, then cover the cup and tap on it, you'll settle it about 10%. You know what I mean? So even something as you would think fully densified as granulated sugar is not. So it's just a nightmare. Liquid measurement relatively easy, right?
+
+[42:18] Relatively easy. Liquid measurement. Um, so no, no. Uh I know that one couple of things. Yeah, the real trick.
+
+[42:25] Yeah. Is just whatever you're especially for baking, again, because the flour and the sugars are so variable. Just crave hope. Somebody in the UK developed a equivalent recipe to what you're looking for. Yeah, but then you have to trust someone from the UK.
+
+[42:47] That's even worse. Just kidding. Just kidding, UK. Um, but the I mean, I always pray for uh, you know, both units. Uh and I, you know, in my recipes, I'll always put both units.
+
+[43:01] There are some things. So you remember when so I think it was Sola who was here, and she was saying that, you know, in her book, she said, I didn't bring it up because I didn't want to get into a whole crap storm, that like she actually prefers things like teaspoons, tablespoons for things like, because you can do a half of a teaspoon, whereas a lot of people's scales aren't accurate enough to weigh, let's say, a half a teaspoon of baking powder. And like I kind of get it, but on the other hand, just give both. Because the the the reason to give real measurements, and like sometimes people give me crap on some of my measurements I gave, they're like, you gave out to the decimal. I'm like, well, what if someone multiplies the recipe by 10?
+
+[43:40] I want the recipe to work, right? I would rather you I would rather give you a number that's unachievable in accuracy for you, so that then when you multiply it by a billion, you're not increasing your error error by a billion. You know what I mean? So it's like, you know, give if you know what the real number is, give the real number and let someone be inaccurate with it. That's my my take.
+
+[43:59] And then if you want to give somebody a teaspoon measure, then give it to them. Now we're now, like Madame or Monsieur Le Boot, we are about to, we're about to get into something that I do disagree with you on. Also, can somebody please explain what uh whatever the loving heck a hell a pinch a pinch equates to? Whose pinch are we talking about? Was there a guy 3,000 years ago called Jimmy the pinch?
+
+[44:24] It would be amazing if 3,000 years ago that I wonder how you say Jimmy the pinch in in Latin. Does anyone here know any Latin? Jimmy the pinch. Jimmy the pinch. Did he create this pinch and how much is a pinch?
+
+[44:37] All right, listen, here's what a pinch is. It is, I don't want to write down the amount that I'm adding. That's what a pinch is. A pinch is add some, I can't do the math, shut up about it. Or it's it needs a little bit, but really depends on all of the other crap that you've done, and I don't really know your taste or your cook cooking, and so just add a pinch, or it's like unmeasurable, but I want it to be there.
+
+[45:03] That's what it is, right? So as someone who has to write recipes for people, I will use this. So for instance, I'll be like, add four drops of 20% saline solution or a pinch of salt. Because I'm like, at that point, I don't care. If you're not measuring, right, then like what does it matter?
+
+[45:21] You know what I'm saying? Uh I don't know what you think, John. Yeah, no. Sounds yeah, pinch on it things. For me, it's like a three-fingered thing, but that's insult.
+
+[45:31] I don't know, yeah. But it's yeah, yeah. But the point, the point is it's is it's it's a way for me to just be like, uh Yeah. Yeah, yeah. How much?
+
+[45:41] Well, my other favorite unit, some my most favorite unit, as anyone who has ever actually cooked with me knows, is the correct amount. How much should I add the correct amount? You know what I mean? Uh yeah, duh. The amount that makes it taste good, moron.
+
+[46:02] You know what I mean? Like that that's the that's the amount you should add. Because some stuff's just unknowable. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I would say there's like there's like especially baking or certain mixtures that you can't like just taste easily.
+
+[46:21] You know, I think there's other ingredients, the ratio of them is more important, and then minor ingredients are just less important to be precise about if they are just for flavor and not for some sort of like structure. Yeah, minor ingredients would be a great punk band, wouldn't it? Minor ingredients. It's like minor threat, but like more of a cooking theme. Can you imagine how bad an only cooking themed punk band would be?
+
+[46:55] Like an old school or like a hardcore band. Yeah, terrible. Yeah, not good. Even Jack wouldn't go to that show. Talk about him like a dog.
+
+[47:04] He's now at Dr. Coachella's, as far as we know. You see, what if Stas, Stas. What if the spin doctors got back together and he was actually seeing the spin doctors at Coachella and could then actually say he was at the doctors? Yeah, that's good.
+
+[47:20] Why do you call it Coach Coachella? Well, I've never been there. I don't know. Isn't it next to Palm Springs? Yeah, but that's not the point.
+
+[47:32] I don't know. What am I supposed to call it? Coachella? Yeah. Isn't there an A in it?
+
+[47:39] Yep, but why are why are you? That's not the way it's like it's like coach. It's a coach. Coach, yeah. You don't you don't buy co-ach bags and coach coach cheese?
+
+[47:53] Um, I guess. Coach is coach. So you think it's I don't know, it just looks like Coachella. If it was gonna be an Italian word, how would you pronounce it, Quinn? Uh Coachella.
+
+[48:06] Cause C H is heard Card. Should I go with that? Yeah. Sure, sure. Jack is at the Coachella.
+
+[48:16] Right? Let's say it like that. Anyway. Uh at the doctors, seeing the seeing the spin doctors. The spin doctors, by the way, people won't believe this, but if you even remember who the spin doctors were, when I was in high school, they were playing all, I was wasn't cool enough to go, but all the cool kids would go into the city to like a place like the wetlands, which was a like a very well-known club here in New York, and they'd be like, Oh, I'm going to see the spin doctors.
+
+[48:42] And they were actually cool. Think about this. The spin doctors were this is what happens when you get overplayed. The spin doctors were like legit cool, right? And then, like, you know, they they this got saturated on the airways, and then all of a sudden no one, no one who had the cred before would listen to them, and all of their new people didn't stick with them long enough.
+
+[49:03] So they got spun out. Sad. You know what I mean? Fun out. Spun out.
+
+[49:10] But you know, little miss, little miss. How many billion times do people my age hear that song on the radio? Like infinity. Saturating it. How many years does it take when you're saturated with a song before you can hear it again?
+
+[49:23] Like, have you guys ever had any songs that like were ruined for you, and then you thankfully didn't hear it for like like a decade, and when it came back on, you're like, okay. Or you still like I don't. I've made I've saturated myself listening to songs, and then took like three or four years to get back to them. Like if you throw up on gin. Ugh.
+
+[49:51] And then how and then it takes you a while to come back to gin. Yeah. Yeah. Ugh. Yeah, that takes a while.
+
+[49:58] Everyone's like, you know what? You know what I can never get back to? Southern comfort. I had a bad Southern Comfort experience when I was young. Oh, dude.
+
+[50:04] For me, it's Jose Cuervo Tequila. Can't do it? Horrible experience. You don't like a lot of tequila things as a result of that one time with uh with your boy Jose. Treated you so wrong.
+
+[50:14] Chef boy RD, yeah. It's terrible. You know Chef Boy R D was a real dude? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[50:20] Yeah, I've seen videos. Looks awesome. Really? Yeah. They're out there.
+
+[50:24] I tell you, my crazy uncle, my crazy uncle Ralph, Pit Boss Reno, once I once asked him a cooking question because he had an opinion about food. So I asked him a cooking question. What am I chef boy RD? That's what he said to me. I'm like, no, Uncle Ralph, you are not Chef Boy R D.
+
+[50:39] But I which was like that was the pinnacle of cooking to Uncle Ralph with Chef Boy RD. Anyway, Jimmy the pinch. All right, Catherine writes in, I've been baking focaccia at work, but I've had issues with it rising like a loaf of bread rather than staying flat and bubbly the way a focaccia usually does. I'm using fresh milled Glen Wheat sifted at 90% extraction at about 14% hydration. Uh sorry, 14% protein with about 80% hydration, using 8% uh olive oil and 20% of a starter.
+
+[51:09] No, good info. I like the wheat for its flavor, uh, but it's gluten maybe contributing to the structure that gives it that rise. Uh, I also like I also stretch and fold throughout a four-hour bulk before an overnight coal proof, which may be adding too much structure. I want it to rise and inflate in the oven, just don't want it to dome the way it does. Well, you know, unfortunately, Catherine, I am not, I don't bake a lot of facaccia, so I'm not a super focaccia expert.
+
+[51:34] Now, if you say it's bready, not just the dome situation, but uh a lot of stuff, I mean, if you you must know this because you're doing a lot of it, but like uh these high extraction flours tend to have more bread like in the sense of like uniform crumb structure. It's more difficult. Because remember, even at your protein, and I looked up Glenn, it's uh hard, hard red. Oh my god, was it a hard red spring? I think it's uh I think it's a a spring.
+
+[52:00] So the question is really like gluten versus gluten versus protein. But here, I don't know. I'm gonna have to think about it. I gotta find someone who works more in in facaccia, because it seems like if it's doming in the center, I would just I don't understand why it would dome in the center unless it's too elastic and pulling back. In which case, when you're panning it, right, I would give it a rest when you pan it.
+
+[52:24] Like, you know when you do Detroit pizza and you don't want to deflate it too much, right? So you oil your pan, and then you because I used to do Detroit pizza quite a lot with high extraction flour. And sometimes if it was a little too snappy, did you say uh how how you did it? Hold on a second. Uh I don't know.
+
+[52:43] Did Catherine say how long it's it's uh it's doing bulk four-hour bulk overnight cold proof. So with that a length of time on a lot of the uh high extraction flours that I use, the dough will get slack, so I would be surprised that it snaps back that much, especially at that hide hydration. I'm suspecting that the doming is because of snap back so that it's actually higher in the middle when it starts than it then it would be. And the way I get around that for, like I say, for um Detroit is just a double pull. So you just you do your oil, you do your stretch, you lay it down, you cover it before you proof, and then you wait like 15, 20 minutes.
+
+[53:22] The dough will relax again. Then after it relaxes, you can stretch it out the last bit of the way and get a real really even kind of thing before you do your final proof. And it might be difficult because you say that you're doing you're doing a cold proof, right? So maybe if you if you shape it a little bit before your bulk, right? If you shape it a little bit before your bulk and just have uh uh you so if you if you do a pause between when you bulk it and you overdo your cold proof and just put an extra stretching step into it, maybe that'll work.
+
+[53:54] Get back to me and tell me whether whether I'm on the right track or not. Uh Gene W writes in, My chicken shop recently closed. I'm so sorry that your chicken shop closed. There was a chicken shop down by me that closed that I really, really liked. I like a good, I like a good, you know, independent chicken shop, especially if they're doing like cool or interesting stuff.
+
+[54:16] Kung Fu Chicken down by me closed, and I still miss it to this day. It was right next to the Chinatown bus, and they had like anyway, whatever. They their squid game, their fried squid game at the chicken shop was anyway. Uh my chicken shop recently closed, and I still have a hennypenny 30 liter pressure fryer. I would love to hear you all muse about what you would do with it besides fried chicken.
+
+[54:38] Well, uh, well, Gene, I've never owned a pressure fryer. I've always wanted a pressure fryer. So why don't you tell us? Because I would do nothing but sit around all day being like, yep, nope, yep. Right.
+
+[54:51] So you wouldn't want to do here's what you wouldn't want to do, right? You wouldn't want to, in my mind, you wouldn't want to pressurize a French fry because you're trying to get rid of water. Right? So, but maybe I'm wrong. Like maybe, maybe the initial blanch out, you want to keep the temperature low and you want to really cook out the inside of the French fry before it dehydrates, you could do a pressurized low temperature cook step, then turn the uh heat up heat up and blast out some of the water, then let it wilt.
+
+[55:19] I don't know. I don't know. Maybe there's some sort of ramp profile. How much I don't also know because I've never owned one, what pressure they get to. So what the quote unquote internal maximum internal temperature of the thing is.
+
+[55:32] But what you anything big that you wanted to deep fry would be awesome in it. Anything physically large, so that you want to increase the temperature of the liquid of the liquid inside the meat so that you can get faster cooking, I would think maybe a prime category. What do you think, Quinn? You got anything you would want to do? I wonder if you could do some variant on like a granitas.
+
+[55:56] But why do you need it to be a high, I mean like with like a one-step? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't know how what pressure it gets to. So if you were going to do like when I what and also you you get a lot of moisture loss.
+
+[56:10] So, like when I'm doing those things like in a second ring environment, I'm still looking at like 20 minutes, right? So you're looking at a 20 minute time at 259 Fahrenheit, right? Whatever that is, Celsius. So 20 to 25 minutes in that range, uh, and then shred and fry to get the crispiness. I don't know.
+
+[56:32] I don't know. Because I don't think the stuff is getting that hot, is it? In a handy pan. I don't know in other words, like the oil is hot. For those of you, the the you have to in your mind, what's awesome about a pressure fryer is you separate the temperature of the cooking medium, but in a regular air air fryer that you're frying out in the air, not an air fryer.
+
+[56:52] An oil fryer in at atmospheric pressure, the liquid on the inside of the meat can never go above 212 degrees Fahrenheit ever. Or you know, 100 Celsius. I mean, that's the rules because you don't have any pressure on it. You know what I'm saying? Uh so you know, salt, whatever.
+
+[57:08] Don't get nitpicky with me. Especially you, Quinn. Don't get nitpicky with me. Anyway, but then when you pressurize it. I know.
+
+[57:14] You're thinking it though. When you pressurize it, right, then all of a sudden the liquid on the inside of the meat can get to a higher temperature, right, than the regular boiling point. And things like collagen that you want to break down respond to that increase in temperature quite dramatically. So you can take things and break them down. You can cook through faster to the center, which is why they use it for chicken, but you can also uh you can also just um increase the rate at which you break things down like collagen.
+
+[57:43] So there's got to be some sort of like fried pot roast that you could do. You know what I mean? I don't know. I don't know, Gene. You tell me.
+
+[57:50] Uh Michael M. writes in there's a cocktail at Schmuck, which is the relatively recently owned bar down uh uh opened bar down here in uh in New York, called strawberries and cheese. It reminds me a bit of your clarified and carbonated strawberry margarita. I'm 90% sure it's just clarified strawberry juice and tequila, milk punched with parmesan powder and carbonated. Have you ever tried using cheese powders for clarification?
+
+[58:13] No, I don't know that they would work because like they've already been clotted, right? So like I don't think that they'd be as good uh clarifying it. But things that you can do if it is parm, first of all, the easiest way is to just use lactic acid. So you add any form of milk like whey stuff and just use lactic acid, and people are like, oh, it tastes like cheese. But uh another thing that uh you can do is uh make a parmesan broth.
+
+[58:37] So Wiley used to do this, a lot of people used to do this. You can buy the rinds cheap, or you can save the rinds if you use a grating cheese of Parmesano, you make a broth with it. The broth is clear. So then that then can be used as an ingredient that has that cheese flavor. Then you jack it with you jack it with lactic acid, and then it gets the sourness that you would want uh in uh in a cocktail.
+
+[58:59] No, I mean, no I mean. I wanted to do a cream cheese uh syrup and fabulous at the bar was like, well, we'll just add lactic. We'll maybe do a regular cream syrup and just add lactic acid. I was like, come on, man, I want to make a cream cheese here. Because I want it.
+
+[59:12] We were gonna do like I don't do food in general. I don't do food, you know, it's food style drinks, but we were gonna do a New York cheesecake. That'd be good, right? A New York cheesecake drink? It'll be good, it'll be good.
+
+[59:22] The question is, how do you get the gram clack cracker flavor? Do you need an infusion? Like a brand, like a like a like a like a bran and like like cinnamon sugar infusion? What? What do you do?
+
+[59:36] I don't know. Yeah, you guys tell me. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City, New Stand Studios, joined as usual with John across from how you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yeah? Yeah.
+
+[0:21] Nice. Nice. Here. Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels. What's up?
+
+[0:25] Hey, how are you doing? Welcome back. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Uh got in, well, she's gonna call in any second, but still got in LA back from the doctor's visit to Coachella.
+
+[0:36] By the way, Nastasia was talking about you like a dog last week. Uh Jackie Molecules, how you doing? Oh, why why? What did I do now? She was basically saying that the doctor you're going to is Coachella.
+
+[0:48] That's what she was saying. Is that what she's thinking? I'm not gonna say yes, because I'm not gonna put words in there, but that the words that came out of her mouth was Jack is lying. I don't know if that was in her heart, but that was in her mouth. That's okay.
+
+[1:05] I don't need it. I don't need it. This is not, you know, junior high. Hello. Hey, we got Nastasi the Hammer Lopez.
+
+[1:10] How you doing? Everything good? If yeah. Um it's not Coachella. It's just not Coachella.
+
+[1:21] Oh, Christina's sake. Okay. I'm never gonna go in my whole life. I could call it like I could call it pigpoop.org. It doesn't matter.
+
+[1:29] You know what I mean? Anyway. Uh what? What is the type of music that you play on a thing that's a disc? Wait, vinyl?
+
+[1:43] No. What's the other word? That starts with an A. Accordian music. No.
+
+[1:50] What is another word for vinyl? Uh record? Discs. Clatter? Album.
+
+[2:02] Album. Uh yeah. Uh, what about album? How do you say it? You always say album.
+
+[2:11] And I'm like, he they put out a good album. No! No. Heartbreak City was a great album. It's not album.
+
+[2:28] Okay. And in the upper left, we got some we got ourselves some Quinn. How you doing? Hey. I'm good.
+
+[2:36] Yeah? Yeah. Nice. Uh so did you not go to did you not go to Coachella? I did, but I went on Thursday.
+
+[2:46] I don't know why anybody thought I was there on Tuesday. And how bad was the festival food on a scale of how bad was it? Yeah, yeah. Didn't they didn't they once uh hire someone who tried to make it really, really good? Well, do they do this like outstanding in the field dinner, which I've covered.
+
+[3:08] I used to I covered for the old network. I did sort of interviews about that. The Valdemar network fine fine. It's like, you know, yeah, yeah. It's like, you know, it's like a four or five course seated meal.
+
+[3:19] But it's just I found it silly because you're like right next to these enormous EDM tents, and it's just like the table shaking from bass, and sometimes the festival sold out, so the people you're sitting with at the table are just kids like on drugs that needed to get a ticket, and this was the only one available. So they're just fighting through this expensive meal. So you're saying you're saying that the people there aren't necessarily appreciating what they what they had, and they put it in the wrong place. Is there a mellow part where they could have put this tent? You know, uh that was many years ago I had that meal, so I don't know if they've improved it, but that was my experience back then.
+
+[3:56] I'm trying to imagine a young Jack Insley hating on EDM. Um, I mean, yeah, imagine it. I mean, it will EDM could mean a lot of things, I guess, right? So there's a lot of different flavors of the colour. Electric discharge machining.
+
+[4:13] You're you're talking about electric discharge machinery, right? Oh, you did? Were they good? Yeah. Were they good?
+
+[4:18] They're yeah, fantastic. Are they are they alive or are they mannequins? No, it's it's one remaining original member, but then they've sort of rotated people out over the years. Is it one 95-year-old person and then two teenagers? That'd be amazing.
+
+[4:34] No, they're they're all very old. So But do they have like actual supports holding them up on stage or no? No, no, no. They're still they're standing at their little, you know. The oldest station, the oldest famous person I ever saw was John Lee Hooker, like a like a couple of years before he died.
+
+[4:53] And the only time he stood up was when he went on the stage. He was on a chair in a chair the rest of the time. And I was like, okay, fine. You know what I mean? Good.
+
+[5:05] Got to see. Yeah. It's not also like he could have been playing. I guess maybe he always kind of played sitting down, maybe. I don't know maybe he wasn't a standing kind of a guitar kind of a kind of a fellow.
+
+[5:14] I saw Ray Charles when he was soup dupe old too, but he was at a pyana. So that's why. You know what I mean? Like if you're sitting seated at a piano, you're not expecting someone to get up and do like Jerry Lee Lewis shenanigans at a piano. Hey, piano player, you know who lived for here's someone who lived a lot longer than I bet you thought he did.
+
+[5:31] If you had to guess how old Fats Domino was when when he died, you would probably guess pretty young with a name like Fats Domino and being alive all back in the day and being a rock and roll musician. You know what's funny? I was just talking about him just the other day. Didn't he pass away during COVID? Yeah.
+
+[5:47] He lived like for a long time. He was like there was a weird thing where he was found on his roof. Yeah, well, he during Katrina. Oh, Katrina, right. During he didn't die during Katrina, but they thought he was dead.
+
+[5:59] People were like posting, you know, rip fats. And he's like, still here. Still walking through New Orleans. On the roof? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[6:06] And like, you know, and he was much more influential than people kind of gave him credit for because we only know the you know, most people only know the blueberry hills song, which is good, but that whole rolling piano sound, that was kind of his sound. You know what I mean? So how so how old was he? I don't know, but he look, his first hit was in the 50s, right? He wasn't exactly a youngster when his first hit came out, and he was alive up until COVID.
+
+[6:29] Oh. So dude had to be, you know, as we say, enfrancae, old. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm.
+
+[6:37] I'll say old. Yeah, yeah. Vieille. View. Vieux.
+
+[6:41] View. Uh we're gonna get into some Francophile crud later on. But did you uh see any uh good uh good you saw craft there craft work there? I know they were playing in New York. Yeah, there they were that was really like one of that was my highlight.
+
+[6:57] Um how much is a ticket into the how much is a ticket into there cost? Because it cost the cheapest seats in New York were over a hundred bucks. Right. Well, it's like five hundred, six hundred bucks for the weekend because it's a three-day thing, but you're seeing, you know, I saw probably seven shows that I really liked. So the cost works for me.
+
+[7:14] Um we go every year. So it's kind of just like I like checking out stuff that uh I don't even necessarily love. Like Lady Gaga was fantastic. I was about to say, did you are you saying you don't love Lady Gaga? Because that would be an inappropriate thing to say.
+
+[7:32] She's great. I was uh I went to school with her, weirdly. Come on. Really? My freshman or yeah, my freshman orientation buddy was dating her.
+
+[7:42] Like before she was Stephanie, she was Stephanie. So what would you germ it out? What was she like in high school? Um, just like a singer songwriter that, you know, had posters all over school about the show. She's she played like the bitter end and all that, but it was not what she became that was very like, you know, like girl at the piano.
+
+[8:03] Weepy high school stuff. Uh sort of a little bit. Maybe a little musical theater y, but I mean it's just it's so it's weird. And she's on stage and she's like, you know, I want to thank you all for being here on this journey with me for the last 20 years. And I was like, geez, you've you've done a lot more in 20 years than I have since we were at school.
+
+[8:24] Yeah, but you know, it's a different different thing. I mean, she wasn't famous back then. It wasn't like in high imagine in high school, she was like, Mama Mama. You would everyone would be like, what the hell? You know what I mean?
+
+[8:36] Like her dance anthems are fantastic. You know what I'm saying? Like Lady Gaga has like say what you like about her, right? Fantastic dance anthems. I mean, like, you could just sweat yourself to death on some of those tunes.
+
+[8:51] You know what I mean? Anyway. Yeah. Regardless of what you think about her as a musician or a person. I don't know anything about her as a person.
+
+[8:58] She's really talented and apparently very nice. So I mean, how nice can you be at that point? Yeah. You know? I mean, you're not really connected to the earth anymore, right?
+
+[9:08] Like, how you're like floating, like someone's holding you down with a thread and you're like floating around that. I mean, how what does niceness even mean at that point in your life? You know what I mean? How many ultra ultra ultra? Yeah.
+
+[9:21] Well, that right, I guess you could not not be terrible, but like when you're completely disconnected from anything normal, like it's gotta be hard to not just be like we lee. You know what I mean? Yeah. The more the more people you know that have no checks on them at all, aren't they in general just like in their own kind of lala land? You know what I mean?
+
+[9:48] I mean, does it happen with chefs? Oh yeah. Not always. Uh oh yeah. Oh yeah.
+
+[9:56] Yeah. They're surrounded by people who tell them, yes, chef, all the time. Yeah. They go bonk alks. John, back me up on this.
+
+[10:04] Yeah, no, 100%. Um I think it's always well again, it's like it's a low bar in a sense, you know, but I always enjoy hearing of celebrities like being good people when they're at restaurants and not being total dicks. Yeah. Um, and treating staff like human beings and not entitled pieces of crap. Who's the case?
+
+[10:24] But it's like that's how everyone should be. Um who's the favorite person you've ever served? Celebrity person. I haven't served a celebrity in a while. Um but I don't know.
+
+[10:32] It's like going to there's a restaurant I enjoy going to, uh, done by Temperance, Manetta Tavern, and they get a lot of celebrities, and you can see some that are real self-centered, not nice people, and some who were actually really nice and kind on the way out. And I always appreciate seeing that. Nastasia deals with that all the time, but she can't talk about it. She's gonna get mad at me for even mentioning that she can't talk about it. That's how much she can't talk about it.
+
+[10:55] But I will say the coolest, Steve Busemi. Oh, is it that? Steve Semi. Super cool. Super cool.
+
+[11:02] And he came up, Stas, you were there. He came up to get a drink from us at that, at that uh what's it called? That uh the Thanksgiving farm uh thing that we were doing, and I had let Jen, my wife, serve him because I forced her into duty that night. Super cool. Super cool dude.
+
+[11:18] Yeah, I guess I don't know. Like the coolest person I cooked for was Roger Waters, and he wasn't particularly No, he's not gonna be cool. No, he's a known. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[11:28] Yeah. Like Yep. You know? Yeah. Please.
+
+[11:34] So at when Roger Waters is in, do you play music specifically to troll him? No, we should have, though. That'd be amazing. For those of you who are don't know what we're talking about, Pink Floyd. Pink Floyd, the wall.
+
+[11:46] Yeah. Uh all right. Uh what do we got? What do we guys? What do we get?
+
+[11:50] What do we got? What do we got? What do you got this week? What's going on? Oh, by the way, if you have some questions and you're listening on the Patreon, call in your questions to 917-410-1507.
+
+[11:59] That's 917-410-1507. And if you're not on Patreon, John, why don't you tell them why they might want to be? Go to patreon.com/slash cooking issues, and you can see all the different uh benefits to the member different membership levels. Um you get access to our Patreon, or no, sorry, through the Patreon, you get access to our Discord. Um, you get discounts with uh great people that we work with, like Matt over at Kitchen Arts and Letters, who's finally coming over to a temperance tomorrow night for dinner.
+
+[12:24] Yeah. Um you can invite him back on the show to do the classics in the field. Yeah, we should. We should. Um what we should do?
+
+[12:30] We should have him do roundups of books that are coming out and then have those people on after he does the roundup. That that is that is a good idea. Yeah. Um but yeah, all these great things and more, just go to patreon.com slash cooking issues. Nice.
+
+[12:48] Uh all right. So what are you okay? Nastasi, you got anything? Or are you gonna tell me no again? You can tell me no, or you're gonna give me something.
+
+[12:57] I have to think. All right. While you're thinking, Jack, I know that you were sick for a long time. Did you finally get your teeth ripped out or what? Yeah, two two more weeks, uh three more weeks?
+
+[13:09] I don't know. Your dentist can't be that good, dude. Oral surgeon, excuse me. Your oral surgeon can't be that good. It can't be that good.
+
+[13:17] I I don't ha I don't have dental insurance. So I am uh, you know, I have to play a little bit of uh of shell game here to get the right like get a good oral surgeon that's not gonna kill me with money and it's it's how much cheaper would it be just to like go across the border? Either border. You know, I I considered that, but then who's driving me home from Tijuana? Like, you know, that's I already brought up the cars once, but you just brought up who's gonna drive you home tonight.
+
+[13:44] You just you brought it up. You brought up who's gonna drive you home, not me. Um but you could stay over. You don't need to drive home the same day. I mean, I have work to do.
+
+[13:56] That's you know, I can't just go to Tijuana. Okay. All right. I mean, I wonder I wonder how much cheaper and better it would be down there, though. Probably a lot.
+
+[14:07] Apparently, yeah, a lot, I think. Yeah. But yeah, my mom's visiting this week, so I can't do anything. Does she drive? Uh I mean.
+
+[14:14] All right. Uh, all right. All right. What about you, Quinn? I know you I know Quinn.
+
+[14:25] I know Quinn's got something for us. Anything more on the butter roundup on the spins all anti-butter roundup? Yeah, I'm well, we had I I did ask uh people on Instagram what we should call it. Do you want to hear some uh highlights of their suggestions? I like that you're only gonna give me the highlights, which leads me to wonder what are the low lights?
+
+[14:46] I kind of want to hear the worst suggestions first. Well, I mean, I don't want to I don't want to call anyone out. Oh, and by the way, whoever is about to get called out, this is Quinn's opinion that you're the worst, not ours. Okay, I'm kidding, quick. Go ahead, guys.
+
+[15:07] I'm not I'm not gonna name name. All right. I'm just gonna tell you. Because no one could look it up on Instagram. Okay, go ahead.
+
+[15:13] Yeah. Uh butt future. That was one. Wait, but future? Fugure.
+
+[15:21] F-U-G-E-R. Oh. I was thinking no, yeah, that doesn't work. Butt fugure. I like I like anything with butt in it.
+
+[15:28] But but but but not not not no. Okay. All right. What else you got? Uh heavy G cream.
+
+[15:36] That's a good. Heavy G. Yeah. All right. All right.
+
+[15:39] Heavy G. Because of the high G forces. Yeah, alright. Yeah. Centrifudge, which doesn't make sense.
+
+[15:47] But although now I'm thinking, is there some sort of could we get cocoa powder into the cream and somehow make some sort of like fudge solid fudge cream? Now I'm thinking about it. I tried something like that a while ago. The cocoa powder goes to the edge of the rotor and the butter still goes in. Right.
+
+[16:17] You we need to we need to somehow I wonder what you could do. Yeah. Astro butter. That was interesting. Why Astro though?
+
+[16:30] Cause because uh I don't know. Because everyone likes Astro World, the uh Travis Scott album. Spludge. Not not feeling that one. Spludge.
+
+[16:41] I can't even say that on the radio more than once. If there was an FCC, we would be, we would be knocked out right now. What else? Butter is all. I like the spirit of that one.
+
+[16:52] Yeah, yeah. It doesn't trip off the tongue though. Butter fuge, like that's you know, similar to the first one. Right, but you gotta remember, but without without sounding like butt butt butt. But the remember the issue I had with all these before is that if you say that it's butter, you're going to carry with it the idea, unless it specifically is making a distinction with butter, because the the emulsion is not inverted.
+
+[17:19] So for those of you that have no idea what we're talking about, if you if you put cream, heavy cream, you know, high high fat cream, into a uh centrifuge and you spin it, you get a butter-like solid that is delicious. Even Nastasi will agree it's delicious. It's delicious. Uh, and something that resembles kind of skimmy milk stuff uh or milk, right? Out of it, but it's not, we don't think, inverted.
+
+[17:48] So, like cream is the continuous face phase is water-based, and in butter, the continuous phase is oil-based, you know, butter fat. So it is a solid but liquid continuous phase thing is what we think is happening. Anyway, so uh all right, so what else you got? Uh-uh. This is a good one.
+
+[18:11] I don't think we can just stick, but just the gloss. The gloss, as though it's like is it gonna open for the weekend? The gloss. I don't know. Like lip gloss?
+
+[18:24] The gloss. I don't know. Here's my issue. Whoever put that out, it's relatively matte in appearance. It is not, it's not like as shiny as butter.
+
+[18:35] It is relatively matte. So if you've ever painted with casein as a pigment, it's got that kind of like, or if you've seen those like whitewashed buildings, it look it's got a matte kind of appearance to it. You know what I mean? It's not shiny. Doesn't have the shit.
+
+[18:53] Hyper churn. Hyper churn. You like hyper. I know you're you're pushing, you're you're a hyper guy, but to me, like like hyper cream or something. I don't understand how the word hyperlink ever happened, to be honest.
+
+[19:08] I mean, hyper, like hypersonic means many times more than, right? Like hyper, like more than much more than. So, like, where why is a hyperlink, why is it called a hyperlink? Why did that become an acceptable thing to call it? And then everything became hyper, it's not more than butter, it's different than butter, right?
+
+[19:27] It's like high I don't know. I can't, I can't, I can't co-sign on hyper because it's just sputter. Yeah, I don't think we can call it sputter. Yeah, all right. Whatever.
+
+[19:39] Yeah, I can't call it sputter. First of all, it just sounds like someone's spitting in your food. And sputtering is a thing, and this is not made by with a sputtering technology. You know what I mean? Alright, what else you got?
+
+[19:55] Uh oh, roto butter. That's kind of cool. Yeah, I don't I don't hate roto butter, but except for the fact that it's not butter people. What about rot of cream? But if you call it cream, people are thinking it's porrable.
+
+[20:11] Let's call it solid cream. This doesn't sound delicious. No, it doesn't. Sounds like something happened to it. Yeah.
+
+[20:19] Bad. Solid cream sounds like I had an issue when I was going to the bathroom. Solid cream. Sounds bad. You know what I mean?
+
+[20:27] Doesn't sound good. Sounds bad. I think it's back to the drawing board. So far, the only ones that I'm okay that you came up with was anti-butter that I'm okay with. What do you what do you folks think?
+
+[20:37] I'm the only one weighing in here. You guys are s like silent. I'm not sure. I haven't heard anything. Yeah.
+
+[20:44] So none of you. We're catching up. By the way, I just keep thinking of that word they said in Star Trek. Was it V'ger? V'ger.
+
+[20:51] Because they misspelled Voyager because the OI, like somehow, some computer from like 1973 gained consciousness. Good luck. You know, you know what I mean? And then, like, uh, you know, it's got like three chips in it. It's got like two transistors.
+
+[21:05] Suddenly it's like, I'm here, I'm V'ger. For it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm coming back. Um, but the that movie was bad.
+
+[21:13] The first Star Trek movie was bad. It was some boring. I was a little young kid, so maybe that had something to do with it. But I was like so excited to go see Star Trek. We go to the theater.
+
+[21:24] I come out, I'm like, that's it. That was the movie. The Vitripuge. Yeah, that the Veterfuge. Oh my god, that movie was such a disappointment growing up.
+
+[21:34] Now, Star Trek 2, Wrath of Khan with Ricardo Montelon, sick. That movie was great. When I saw that movie in the theater, I was like, oh yeah. Oh yeah, that's a movie. First of all, Ricardo Montabon, not a young man at the time, so sexy.
+
+[21:50] Have you seen that dude's chest in that movie, dude? That dude is ripped. And he was like, I think in his 50s. I think he's like my age at the time. Dude looks jacked.
+
+[21:59] Amazing. Ricardo Montelbon, amazing. You know what I mean? Such a gentleman, too, when he spoke. Oh, I know.
+
+[22:05] So polite. Oh, I know. Oh my god, he always looks so sharp. You know what I mean? Like my first mentor in the food business, um uh Michael Batterberry in the business business side of it, Michael Batterberry, he was also that kind of sharp dressed man, always sharp, always smooth, great voice.
+
+[22:22] You know what I mean? I appreciate that. I don't think I know anyone now who's like that. Do any of you know anyone who's just always sharp and smooth? Garrett Oliver.
+
+[22:32] Yeah, he's pretty sharp. Different kind of sharp and smooth, but sharp and smooth. Yeah, yeah. Always fashion. That's true.
+
+[22:38] Always looks good. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, all right. All right. Oh, we we have we have one more name suggestion from Brock Baker, but it's already taken.
+
+[22:49] By by whom? Creamy. Oh, yeah, no, no, that cream. That's we're just being trolled. Rock Baker's just trolling us, creamy.
+
+[22:59] Also, I did actually do some actual cooking with it uh this weekend as well. Um I did confirm that cultured cream well, it needs more time or it separates less readily than a sweet cream. Well, also uh did you did you re-chill it before you spun it? Yes, yeah. Oh yeah.
+
+[23:23] All right. I was about to I was about to lay into you, you saw that ahead of time and you uh had the fully chilled cream because when you're doing it, you make sure it's obviously cold. But you I was also had some issues. How did it taste though? Wait, what?
+
+[23:42] Stir fried. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Sorry, sorry. You lost me. It went from cultured butter to San Francisco garlic and noodle.
+
+[23:49] What's the connection between those two items? Well, San Francisco garlic noodle is like a stir-fried noodle with butter, garlic, uh various like soy sauce, fish sauce. Right, but how do we come to be talking about that? You use this product for that? Is that what you're saying?
+
+[24:09] Yes. Now let me ask you this. Why? Like what what made you think that this is the killer app for this product? Well, I did basically my normal recipe has a certain amount of butter.
+
+[24:25] Uh-huh. So I stir-fried with the clarified butter, and then the rest of the butter was the actual, you know, spinzall cultured cream. And then I mixed that with the uh dark soy and some cheese. That's part of the recipe. And then I tossed that at the end to make it very uh creamy.
+
+[24:47] Right, but what was your hope as opposed to the normal recipe that it would be more emulsified, it wouldn't oil out, it wouldn't break away yeah more more, yeah, more creamy, less stir-fry oily. And was it yeah it was really good. Alright, so it was this so you Quinn, you gotta start so people know why you did a particular thing, like why this recipe. So you're saying in normal nominee get to it first. I make this mistake when I'm writing all the time and this is why my my wife walks up to me and slaps me in the back of the head.
+
+[25:18] You gotta tell people right away why they're listening or reading what you're saying. Tell them right away why and then tell them how. Why, then how you know I mean so but you're saying it was yes you said again therefore you were gonna tell me something what yeah I I will be doing more testing where I separate uh well spin the cream a little more because in this this cultured cream was like I estimate only like 50 60% fat. There was definitely more toward the cream than less a butter like product. This is really good how have you run the did you you said you ran the test so we were talking before last week but he hadn't had time to run the test yet but I know he said he was running the test.
+
+[26:10] So we're trying to figure out kind of what the yield is like what it's it's difficult to directly measure fat content with the equipment that Quinn has at his house or that I have in my house so that anyone has at their house, right? Uh so what I told him to do is take the product, whatever we're gonna call it, antibutter or whatever, like you know, heavy G or whatever we're gonna do, and uh weigh it very accurately, then uh put it in a low oven and do you know almost like you were clarifying it and evaporate all the liquids off. Then when you know exactly how much is evaporated off, you can assume that that's the vast majority of the water, and presumably if you haven't put the heat too high, the milk solids that are in it will not have scorched out too much. So you assume that they have the same weight they did before, and you just estimate that the milk solids proportion uh that's left will be the same proportion to the water as it would be in skim milk. Understand?
+
+[27:09] Make clear? And so by doing that, you can then determine how much fat is in the sample that you have, and because you know how much fat went in in the cream, how much fat is left in the you know, leftover liquids, the milk alloyed part of it. So, did you do those calculations or no? Yeah, I did I did run one test like that with an older batch of the sweet cream based product. And I only got 13% water.
+
+[27:42] So I that's possible. I don't know if it's possible, but even after it stopped gently bubbling, you know, I kept it going for you know a few more cycles in the oven. Well, it's a it's about the it's about the weight changing. Did the weight keep changing or no? Yes.
+
+[28:03] Then you can't stop the test until the weight stops changing. So the way that drying tests work is you know you're done when successive measurements are the same. That's how you know you're done. Would be better. Because it feels like you weigh everything.
+
+[28:30] Yeah, everything. I think stirring might be helpful. Because it looked like unless the milk solids layer were sort of like trapping some moisture under the clarified butter. Yeah, but that's not how that works because you can trap it in the solids because they can be bound, but the milk solids aren't strong enough to hold down water vapor. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[28:57] This is not how that's just not that's not possible. I had the best uh DJ name for Harold McGee. Uh better than MC Ghee. MC Gee, but wait, wait, wait, what is this, Sas? M C G, but D H E E, like the Indian butter.
+
+[29:20] He's Indian. No, well, half, yeah, it fits, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He reps it out.
+
+[29:24] I mean, like, we have called him that to his face, have we not? I don't know. I'm pretty sure I've called him MC Gee to his face. I mean, he would be fine with it. Remember the guy dressed as Zoltan for a party.
+
+[29:37] So he's Zoltar. He would definitely, he would definitely go to a party as MCG. In fact, we could probably get him to do a gig with Dan the Automator, where Dan the Automator, I'm sure we could get Dan to do a gig with uh MC Gee. Maybe he would even dress as the handsome boy modeling school character. That would be amazing.
+
+[30:03] Are you down with Dan the Automator? Yeah. I don't know if really. Yeah, he's a bar. He's a bar, he's a bar and restaurant lover.
+
+[30:09] Oh, I know. Yeah. Cool. I love his work when he did with the gorillas. Yeah, I mean, he's done a lot of great stuff.
+
+[30:15] You know, Dr. Octagon. Kiss stuff. Dr. Octagon.
+
+[30:19] Although, cool keith. Weird, weird. Weird dude. Weird dude. Jupiter.
+
+[30:26] That's right. He's from Jupiter, right? Uh I think he's from Jupiter. Yeah, yeah. Well, he says he's from Jupiter.
+
+[30:30] There's a whole theory behind it. Yeah, Jupiter, Jupiter, the Bronx. But he's like, he's a weird, weird dude. You know what I mean? But good music.
+
+[30:38] Uh MC Gee. Uh, so Quinn, you gotta keep weighing it until it stops giving up weight. Why did you stop? It was getting late. All right, here's a secret.
+
+[30:52] You can just lay it aside and start again the next morning. Hey. All right, so we don't know yet. The answer is we don't know. Not yet.
+
+[31:07] Okay. But you you you you definitely didn't like lose a lot because otherwise you would have number would have been much higher. If you had lost product, your number would be much higher, and it was relatively low number. Yeah, I was very careful that it didn't get spilled. Yeah.
+
+[31:23] Okay. Well, run the test. Run the test. We're trying to tell people about a new technique. We got to give them some numbers, Quinn.
+
+[31:32] We got to give them some numbers. And Quinn was supposed to run the same test on the liquid that was left over so that you would know the fat content from the same kind of analysis that way, because it's impossible when you're trying to get the solids and the liquids out of the rotor to not lose some. And then how are you gonna guess with any sense of accuracy, like whether you lost more solid or lost more liquid or b beep or boo boop or bop? The one thing I will say is I'm gonna assume that there is very little evaporation. But it is much, much better to just do an evaporation number in an oven with the mil with the solid part and the liquid part.
+
+[32:13] So maybe next week we'll have that information. By the way, Chris Young is gonna be so Nastasia the Hammer Lopez is gonna be in studio next week. Is that correct? No, two weeks. Oh, two weeks.
+
+[32:25] One week, two weeks, all the same. So next week is just the same as the same as normal? Yeah, before I do. All right. Two weeks.
+
+[32:33] We have Nastasia Hammer Lopez, and then also maybe calling in or live. Chris Young. Uh Chris would be calling. One of you, by the way, is clicking like a mother. One of you is a click monster.
+
+[32:45] I'm gonna kill you. It's annoying. All right. Uh got some questions in uh hi Dave and crew in some older punch recipes, i.e. the Grub Street Punch Royale and Wondrish's punch book.
+
+[32:59] Uh where was Grub Street? I didn't realize Grub Street was an old thing. I only think of the website. What was Grub Street originally? Like where is Grub Street?
+
+[33:09] What doesn't some of it get published in New York Mag? No, no. If it was in David Wonderich's punch book, it was before Grub Street, the website, right? Because Punch came out, or is it a a recipe that he wrote for Grub Street, the website? Is Grub Street in the same way that like Cannery Row is a particular place?
+
+[33:27] And like a lot of places have it, you know. No idea. Is Grub Street a place? It's a website. Yeah.
+
+[33:29] Sorry. You know what I mean? Yeah, I don't know. Uh I realize that it's a website. Yeah, I don't know, I know, but it's I just I can't think of anything else.
+
+[33:44] Yeah. Did they name the website after a an historic place that, for instance, had a punch? Grub Street. That's catchy. First of all, Grub using the word grub for food sounds like I'm eating maggots.
+
+[34:01] I hate that word. It's nasty. It's a terrible word. Yeah, you know what I mean? I agree.
+
+[34:07] Grub. Although I will say, you know, to each their own, uh, Hervé Tees, the whatever, the uh the the clown prince of uh food science, he he hates the English word food because it sounds bad to him as a French person, the English word food. I'm like, I'm sorry, it just doesn't sound bad. I mean, like I speak English, I say the word food all the time, and I'm okay with it. You know what I mean?
+
+[34:36] Like two Yeah, is this French words don't sound bad? Come on. I know. Why does everyone say French is such a pretty language? Jack, talk to me.
+
+[34:45] Why do people say French is such a pretty language? I'm the wrong guy to ask. I can't speak illiterate. Well, you know who we have right in front of us here is Jean. That's right.
+
+[34:53] He loves his French. It's the most romantic language in the world, you know, that's what they say. Which they all the days. Pepe Le Pew says it. Who else says it?
+
+[35:03] Like by the way, Pepe Le Pew should totally be canceled. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Has he been canceled? Do they still?
+
+[35:11] What? He's so handsy. He forces himself on all the cats. But he's friends. Oh man.
+
+[35:21] Oh, Stud. Oh, geez, Louise. Stas like, Stas is like, I'd do that. Pepe Le Pew, I'd do that. Yeah.
+
+[35:33] Oh, gracious gracious. All right. Uh, how the heck do we get on that? Grub Street. That's how we got on it.
+
+[35:38] All right. Grub Street Punch Royale in Wondridge's punch book. They call for Ambergriss. So uh it looks nowadays. So Ambergris, by the way, uh, for those of you what don't know, is a is a fatty deposit that is pooped out of sperm whales.
+
+[35:59] And uh uh according to uh accounts, there's a book you can read on it. I have not read the book, but for those of you that are interested, you can read Floating Gold, a natural and unnatural history of Ambergris by Christopher Kemp. Uh but apparently when it's eject, so you can get it from killing the sperm whales, which is why, and just because you're not allowed to trade. I didn't realize this, but you're not allowed to trade in ambergris at all because it comes from an endangered animal. So even though it's poop from an endangered animal, in the same way that you're not, did you know you're not allowed to own uh Baldi feathers?
+
+[36:34] Did you know that? Did I tell you about this? No. So I went to a place called Eagle Beach in Alaska, and there's this eagle feathers littering the beach, just littering the beach. So I'm picking up eagle feathers.
+
+[36:46] I'm like, eagle feathers, and then I get back to the hotel, and it's like, no, you're not allowed to. So I had to get rid of them all because you're not allowed to have eagle feathers because they can't tell whether it was molted or whether you shot the eagle and ripped the feathers off. Yep. So anyways. So I didn't know I was being, you know, an international, or not international, a national, you know, criminal endangered animal smuggler.
+
+[37:09] But in fact, I was. So uh for the same reason you're not allowed to have ambergris because it comes from a sperm whale. Now, uh, I'm I don't want to blow up anyone's spot, so I'm gonna change you have to age it, by the way. Do you know that? You have to age it.
+
+[37:24] When it first comes out, uh, it is quote unquote freshly produced ambergris has a marine, a marine fecal odor. And then finally, after all of that stuff is washed away, because it floats in the sea for like years, right? Floats in the sea, is washed up on shore and then picked up. By that time it's got the sweet kind of uh ambergris, which I don't even really know what it smells like because I couldn't tell you, but supposedly it's musky, sweet. Um anyway, by the time it gets there, it's washed out and it's like that.
+
+[37:51] And so I'm not gonna blow up her spot because I didn't realize it was illegal, but I know someone will just call her Bandy Maftel, right? Who has like hundreds of years old aged uh Ambergris that she says is just kind of crazy phenomenally cool in her maybe not legal collection. You know what I mean? Uh anyways, so the qu that's what we're talking about, ambergris. And I will tell you this one other fact.
+
+[38:20] In 1988, I did a summer program at Cornell University called the Tell Your Ride Association Summer something tasks, right? And uh there was in Ithaca, New York, a graffiti, uh uh graffitied line of dog roll, which I remember to this day, and it goes like this. And it didn't make any sense at the time. Ambergris, that's whale fat, popper cherry jumper rat. And I was like, what does this mean?
+
+[38:50] I was like, you know, I was like in high school, I was like, what is any of the I I've decoded some of it since, but like it made no made no sense. I'm like, it's not really whale fat. I mean, it is fatty, but it's more like poop. And being the concrete young gentleman I was at the time, I was like, that poem is incorrect. Anyway, uh, so on to the actual question.
+
+[39:10] Um, it looks like nowadays ambroxide is used as a synthetic analog in food flavoring and perfumes. Have you ever played with it? Any tips? Maybe this is a question for Ariel. Well, we will ask Ariel when we see her next.
+
+[39:22] However, I did go on, I have not used it, but I have gone on eBay, and the trade name for uh that is Ambroxan, A-M-B-R-O, X-A-N. Uh, and I bought some on Instagram. I bought, I mean, I on um eBay. I bought 10 grams and it costs 14 bucks. So I bought 10 grams for 14 bucks plus another like $13 in shipping.
+
+[39:47] I should get it in a week or two. It's getting shipped out of India. I will let you know how it works. But so 10 grams. So for those of you that remember the Jasmin fiasco, Jasmin is a chemical that smells like dirt.
+
+[40:00] It's in beats, I don't like it. Anastasia doesn't like it. And so I bought some to make a dirty martini just to be a jerk, but the amount that I put into my dirty martini was enough, Ariel told me, uh, was enough to flavor an entire swimming pool. Olympics. Olympic size swimming pool.
+
+[40:22] Yeah, not not like a kiddie pool, not like an above-ground pool, an Olympic swimming pool. So uh I looked up the numbers already before this arrived, and we're looking in the like parts per million range for for this product, right? So and I think less than one part per million, but I I gotta go look it up because I looked it up this morning. So let's say it was one part per million. Okay, let's just say it was one part per million, and I think it might be less.
+
+[40:51] Uh that means that that each gram, each gram makes a thousand liters of product. That means that this amount is at least ten thousand liters worth of uh uh ambroxan. So I have enough. So if you get to spend this $14 if I like it, and you get and you guys want to go get it, it's enough forever. Forever.
+
+[41:20] You know what I mean? 10,000 liters is a lot. Yeah. That's like more than a little. Yeah.
+
+[41:26] Like for just for reference, a 20-pound CO2 tank, if you're in conservation mode in a carbonator, probably does uh 40 gallons. So let's just multiply that by a four by eighty, so it's like uh like three hundred and twenty gall 320 liters. Right. So think about that. Like think about the level of stank that's gonna come out of this bottle.
+
+[41:53] Uh all right. So uh uh Malkith, we will let you know when we when we get it. Uh Elliot writes in: I have now read various people in books describe things about how fine. Sorry, Stas, it's gonna be a milling question. About how fine to mill hard red winter wheat for normal lean sourdough bull.
+
+[42:14] Uh 100% sifted for now. Elliot, when you say 100% sifted, does that mean that you're sifting 100% of your flour or that you're just sifting it, but 100% is going through your sifter? If that's the case, I highly recommend that you get like a 60 mesh and uh and and do like you know, 87 to 90 percent extraction. Anyway, um and run some tests. Uh and I'm mostly just confused.
+
+[42:42] Well, aren't we all, Elliot? Aren't we all? Uh specifically, I don't understand how fine to mill relative to the point at which the burrs start to make a noise each other against each other when the mill is empty. Okay, listen, listen, listen. Before I go into this, so that see, before I go into this, let me explain to everyone who doesn't know what the heck I'm talking about, what I'm talking about.
+
+[43:01] A home, mo ninety-nine percent of home flour mills just have a little grinding stone, like smaller than the span of my fingers, like maybe four inches or four and a half inches across, that looks like you took it off of the side of up of a bench grinder in a metal shop. Okay. It's literally that kind of a grinding wheel. And it's got two of them. And the one on the bottom spins because it's attached to a motor and it's got a hole in it.
+
+[43:29] And the uh and the one on top is held still, and you pour the grain through it, and what you do is is you adjust the top stone down with some mechanism. There's various mechanisms, but the one we use, you screw the entire top down and you push the stones down against a spring, and the wheat itself floats the top wheel up and keeps it relatively, you know, in tram, so flat relative to the bottom stone, right? So you're not mechanically holding it, you know, uh even with the bottom stone. The wheat itself or the grain itself is doing that. So that's that's how these things are operating.
+
+[44:03] And so uh obviously, you know, if you're if your stones are not uh true, if they're not flat or if they're you know incorrectly made or whatever, you're not gonna be able to get a very fine grind because the stones can't get close enough together to get a fine grind. So we're talking about how to adjust the fineness. And so one of the techniques is to just is to take the sp spin the thing down. And by the way, Elliot, you're in luck. You said you have a Como Mio, I have the exact same, I have the exact same uh mill.
+
+[44:33] So I'm gonna give you experience that I've had with your mill, like the one that you use, uh, although I've done them with many others and they all have the same kind of idea. So what you do is you turn the thing finer, finer, and finer until you start hearing this. Because the stones are touching, right? Don't run it that way a long time. But when the stones start touching, then you dump your wheat in, right?
+
+[45:00] And then depending on how hard the wheat is, you either back it up one so it's a little bit coarser, so that would be your fine your soft wheats. Any soft wheat that you mill has a tendency to smear and glaze your stones, right? So you take it to the shit and then put the wheat in, back it up, make it slightly less coarse, just slightly, or you'll or you're in for a world to hurt. And remember, when you do glaze your stones, clean it with uh white rice, not brown rice, because you're trying to have something that's fundamentally fat-free and hard as hell. So you want like very vitreous, like white rice.
+
+[45:38] Uh doesn't take much, a half cup. Uh, and then you know, clean it out. So, but when you're milling a hard wheat that's not going to glaze over your stones, you can put it one half of a after, like finer when you drop it in. And you can tell because the speed of wheat coming out is going to be directly related to how fine the flour coming out. It's going to be directly related to how fine you're grinding.
+
+[46:00] And you can put your hand in front of the chute and feel how warm it is. And a higher, uh finer grind is going to be slower, hotter, and have more. These are these are all related, and you can read the papers on it, right? Slower, hotter, and uh and have more starch damage. Okay.
+
+[46:19] Uh now, some places say you should turn the mill on without making noise, blah, blah, blah. Uh other places say you should grind to the point before they chirp, and then not do that dance, which presumably produces much less finely ground flour. So other places say you should grind as fine as possible, and don't mention uh the chirp at all. And so basically, your question I'm gathering uh is what's the difference, right? I prefer it to be ground as fine as I can for the style of uh bread that I like to make.
+
+[46:50] Uh I like remember though, I'm sifting you have all of your, you're not gonna need as much damaged starch uh as I will for a given hydration level because you're not sifting out the brand the way I am. Uh everything depends. There's no one answer, right? And that that's I guess the issue. That's why you probably get confused reading stuff all over the net, is because if you're not sifting, your your brand, which absorbs a lot of water, is going to take some of the water handling capability that I would get out of my damaged starch, but it's gonna reduce low volume because all the extra brand is gonna reduce the low volume and also make it taste more brandy.
+
+[47:28] Once you have it in like my situation where I'm at like 87% yield off of a very fine grind, I need a little more damage so that I can get uh higher uh a higher water content in it to get the kind of bread that I want. So there it's confusing just because you're working with multiple variables at once. Is this okay? Is that all right? Yeah.
+
+[47:48] Okay. Um Andrew L writes in, I'm spending some time in Paris later this year, and Dave mentioned a few weeks ago that it's a remarkable food city in Europe. Uh, I mean, obviously, right? Uh, does uh do we have, and you know, John's gonna have more recommendations than I have, but uh, do I have any bar or restaurant restaurant recommendations I might might check out? Well, Andrew, in fact, the last couple of times I've been to Paris, I've been there with uh small kids, and I'm not that guy going to fancy restaurants with small kids.
+
+[48:17] It's just not I'm not doing that. You know what I mean? Just because I just I'm not doing that. It's just too much, it's just too much, too much money. But like with large groups, right?
+
+[48:28] Or with people that don't necessarily care about food. But I'll give you some shopping recommendations. I think I've already mentioned them on the air before, but if you like cheese, and I hope you do, uh Bartolome on uh near Rue de Bach uh stop uh on the uh Rue de Grinnelle is like one of the great cheese shops on earth. They have a reputation for being surly, but they've only ever been nice to me. Um even though I don't speak French, but they during it's too late, but they you know, during vacherant season, like their Vacheron is amazing.
+
+[49:01] Their uh their Camember game is great. Um they they just they this fantastic cheese shop. Another cheese shop. If you're gonna be there uh on uh a weekend when stuff is closed, right? If you're gonna be there on a on a Sunday, uh a shop that's open every day of the week where you can get some fun stuff is uh if you're gonna be near the um Luxembourg Gardens down near the uh Place de Odeon is uh the pronounce this we don't pronounce this one, I'm not gonna butcher that.
+
+[49:36] Yeah, and it's just it's called uh uh or le la coop. Maybe it's le co-op. La co-op? La coop. Yeah.
+
+[49:45] So it's uh la coop and you go there and it's all uh Savois food. But the kind of star of the show is Beaufort. And Beaufort has said this on the air before. It's not underrated because people love it, but people don't, I think, think about it very much in uh the US. And when you go there, they have the coolest cheese slicer because if if you were gonna do an action movie and there's gonna be a chase through a cheese shop, you would definitely murder somebody with this cheese slicer because it's just a giant uh hydraulic cleaver.
+
+[50:20] So it's a huge Beaufort wheel, which is, you know, big, you know what I mean? Big. And then this thing, and they just step on a pedal and blah the cleaver comes down and cuts you your perfect piece, and then they can spin the thing underneath it and cut. They're usually cutting like two or three different wheels at uh at once at any given time, depending on like how old you want. You want the old good one, just get the older one.
+
+[50:40] The other one's just skip them. But uh they have a bunch of other cheeses there as well. But go there uh just because Beaufort's a delicious cheese. Now, where else should they go, uh John? Late Tour d'argent if you want to do fancy.
+
+[50:51] Oh, have you done that? I haven't. I'd love to, but we're just saying that because you want to go. I want to go, I couldn't go. Well, yeah, I haven't tried going, but if I go, I'd like to go.
+
+[50:58] I'm just saying it's a good thing. Like 1780 something? They're one of the early 90s, maybe. 1790. They were one of the early post-revolution restaurants, right?
+
+[51:10] So like maybe are they before 1800? Are they in the nineties? I think so, but I'm not positive. And that means what do you think? It's Tower Silver or Tower of Money.
+
+[51:22] Silver. Silver Tower? Yeah. Yeah. So you're go to the Silver Tower and tell them what they're famous for.
+
+[51:28] Canar la press. Yeah. So it's like, and you know I've made that several times. It's it's not so the the w pressed duck, the w have we talked to us about this on air recently? I don't think so.
+
+[51:41] So the way pressed duck works, it's horrible. Like like please don't get mad at me. This is how it's made. You you get a uh a young duck, right? Caneton, right?
+
+[51:52] Young duck. Yep. Uh from a ruin, right? And uh while you're there, you know, uh get get other things, get some get some sparklers. And then uh you they they break its neck because the idea is is that you want to keep the all the blood inside the duck.
+
+[52:10] So unlike any sort of normal uh slaughter process where people are trying to remove as much, they're trying to exsanguinate the animal as much as possible. When you're making pressed duck, you do not. They then like very, very quickly roast the the duck. You know, they gut it, I think, right? And then they and then and then they but they roast it whole.
+
+[52:34] And then they cut off the the legs, save them for a separate prep, then put the entire and the breast, and they tip put the entire rest of the stuff in a press and they squeeze it. Now I've used both a real duck press, and by the way, if you should ever buy an ornamental actual uh French duck press, they are not as strong as they look. Do not gorilla force a French duck press because I gorilla forced one and I snapped it in half. And then we had to like the rest of it we had to like all fix it. It was a gift, also it was sad.
+
+[53:11] It was a gift from I believe either Andre Saltner, Rest in Peace, or Sayak to the to Jacques Papin who gave it to the French Culinary Institute. So it was like, you know, it had some provenance. They were not happy that I broke it. I took it out of their library to take it into the amphitheater to make the press pressed duck with. They're like, they're like, it's in the library.
+
+[53:32] You can't use it. I'm like, it was put on earth to press ducks. And so I took it out of the library, brought it in, broke it, and then had to pretend that I hadn't broken it, and I took it back. Anyway, I've also used an enterprise uh sausage stuffer and fruit press, um, which works well and can take gorilla force. Um anyway, so then you squeeze out all the juices, and then I forget what liquor do you put in a in the pan with it.
+
+[53:58] Do you remember? I don't. And you do like a quick, like a like a livery, it almost like a like a it's like a bloody livery sauce that you put over the breast and you eat it. That's can't be. And when you get it at Tour d'Arjec, you they give you a signed, like they give you like a certificate with the number of your duck, so that forever there's a record that you have participated in this monstrosity of strangling this poor duck and squishing its body in a press.
+
+[54:26] But I cannot wait to try it. I like I I don't think I'm ever gonna do it. And I'm never gonna do it. Because it's fantastically expensive. Yeah.
+
+[54:34] And I don't think they they now I think they keep changing the name of it, right? So it might just be called now like uh Canot Tour Tour d'Ajon or something like that. Like they like if you look on the menu, you can't always find it, but they always have it. Okay, let me bang out a couple other things here. Um Cheoles, which is uh kind of between the Louvre and uh Notre Dame.
+
+[54:59] Around uh uh Notre Dame, you've got uh L'Hutrerie Regie, so just like a really great old school oyster shop. Um my God. Don't poison yourself. Listen, when you go to Paris, you're gonna go to like uh what's it, Mario and what's it called? Well, Mario Kart, what's the famous bistro?
+
+[55:18] Balbert. No, Mario and um what the hell is it? It's super famous. Uh anyway, and you're gonna get some freaking like fou de mer platter, and the Parisians for some reason give you raw muscles. And in most of these fui de mer platters, most these fouetter platters are made like an hour before or two hours before you show up, and it's these desiccated raw muscles on these fui de mer platters.
+
+[55:46] And if you look at a map of Paris, it is in the center of the country. It has no business selling you seafood. But like how they got famous for these kind of like going to a bistro and getting a fouit de mer platter. Twice members of my party have been horribly food poisoned going to those things. Two times.
+
+[56:07] Now, maybe we, you know, maybe not everyone I'm traveling with has the belly of steel, but even I felt not okay after one of the fruits de mer platters. So beware, I guess. Then uh you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. No, I mean it's it's weird, but yeah, it's I don't know.
+
+[56:23] I've had good experiences. Yeah, but if you get a fouet de mer, padmoul, padmoul. Yeah, okay. No mussels. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[56:29] You know what I mean? Um I love muscles too, by the way. When you do it like a la Belgique. Yeah. Well, they also do them raw there, too.
+
+[56:37] Um, but Albert is another one to go to. We got like two minutes. I'm gonna get some of these out. We got three minutes and seven seconds. Three minutes and seven seconds.
+
+[56:44] Um if you go to Chejonge, which you definitely should, go nearby to uh Ed Del Rhin, the cooking store. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Are they still open? Yeah. It's pronounced De Hillarin.
+
+[56:56] If you go in there, like they have all sorts of like really old stock stuff. So it's kind of the way bridge kitchenware used to be if you lived in New York in the 70s and 80s and 90s, like I did. Um Chélamijon is another classic. Um, and then one that I really love and not many people know about her. It's like off the tourist beaten path uh near the Invalide is called au pied de fouet.
+
+[57:22] Um, at the foot of the whip is what that translates to. And that is one of my all-time favorite bistros. So definitely go check that out. What's the name of the uh what's the name of the uh charcuterie shop you sent me to? There's like a couple of branches.
+
+[57:36] Gilles Verot? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a great place too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Really good terrines and pattes and things like that.
+
+[57:43] I go to Cedric Grolet's uh pastry outpost near the Louvre. He's doing some really tasty and impressive stuff there. Um, it's plenty of great, plenty of great places. What do you think about when you go? Where is it?
+
+[57:54] Uh Woods. Don't go anywhere with a menus in English. What about uh uh do you like their mustard? They there's a Maye shop there. Yeah, there is.
+
+[57:59] And do you go there and laugh at their mustards? I mean, I've never been. Never been? Yeah, I've never been. I know I know the store and I can picture it and I know where it does.
+
+[58:10] If you're an American traveling in Paris and you have a kitchen and you're gonna cook some meals for yourself, go to a gibier and make sure that because like you can get some interesting like uh birds and fowl on like uh with feathers on them in markets in Paris, which is at least you could years ago. Last time I had a kitchen in Paris. And so it I highly recommend if you can cook at least one meal on your own, find like some good uh produce that you might not be able to mess with back here in the States and you know get get a whole hold of that. It's always kind of a a good call if you want to do that. Uh right when you say yeah, definitely.
+
+[58:51] Although uh the last time I tried that was many years ago, and I had to pluck a pheasant, and it is not easy to pluck a pheasant after it's been dead for a long time. You know what I'm saying? It's like I ripped the hell out of that skin. I obliterated the skin, and also I was cooking in someone's house that wasn't done yet, so I had to rip I they had extra floorboards, so I I I broke up a bunch of oak floorboards and used those to cook the pheasant over. It was a good pheasant, but I'm not gonna say it was a pleasant experience.
+
+[59:24] I do not like plucking birds. If I had to go the whole rest of my life and never pluck another bird, I'd be like, you know what? I'm good. I'm good. There's things like that that I don't need to do anymore.
+
+[59:37] I don't need to catch on fire again. I don't need to pluck more birds. You know what I mean? Agreed. Yeah, I don't need wait.
+
+[59:44] Wasn't it you that told me there's a a leak trick so I don't have to hate leeks anymore? No, I don't think so. I'd love to know about it though, but I do like leaks. Alright. But they suck cleaning.
+
+[59:53] Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking News coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan Rug of Letter Center, New York City News Stand Studios, joined as usual with John across from me. How are you doing? Doing good, thanks. Yeah?
+
+[0:21] Yeah. Yeah. Everything's good? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[0:23] All right. Nice. We got uh Joe Hazen rocking the panels. Hey, hey, hey, what's shaking, bacon? Yeah, nothing, nothing much, nothing much.
+
+[0:29] Every week for a couple of weeks, John and I have gone across the street to Sam Chef Sam Yu's new restaurant to see if he's there. And he he is. We always miss him by like five minutes. We're gonna get him on though. We will, yes.
+
+[0:42] Yeah, anyway. I don't want to be thinking of that just now. Because after this show. I forgot his email. After this show, we're gonna go across the street.
+
+[0:49] Try again. Yeah, that's ridiculous. Yeah. Uh we got over there on the West Coast, Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing?
+
+[0:57] Okay. Getting ready to be uh live over here next week. Oh man, I just got a text from Peter that said, lower your standards. And I said, I'm not you. Wow.
+
+[1:11] Wow. Wait, first of all, hold on, hold up. For those of you who don't know, it's uh, you know, uh old old school old school radio punching bag, Peter Kim, you know, formerly a museum of food and drink. Not just the radio, Dave. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[1:25] Oh, come on, please. And uh I mean, you know, you should hear what he says. Anyway, so that's who we're talking about to Peter. And I'm presuming that that Peter is telling Nastasia to lower her standards uh vis-a-vis her dating life. That's my guess.
+
+[1:40] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, because like uh, you know, what what other standards are there left to lower? I mean, there's our job. Like what?
+
+[1:49] I yeah, I know. I work at a place here where the staff is incredibly, incredibly good looking. Like out of this world good looking. Yeah. Are you are you why don't you just say where you work?
+
+[1:59] As long as you don't tell the stories, aren't you not even allowed to say you work there? No way. All right, Jesus. No, I'm not. Um and so, but they're all not very smart.
+
+[2:09] And it's I just can't, you know. I just can't. So no one's saying that you have to marry these people. You have to wake up with them and be like, oh, no, you don't. You absolutely do not have to wake up with them.
+
+[2:24] Absolutely, that is not required. Unless unless you fall asleep somehow, like like before you know what's going on, you absolutely can wake up in a different place or have them wake up in a different place. I'll think about it. Let's not talk about this. Our audience doesn't talk.
+
+[2:42] John, did I bring this up? All right. No, that's our audience doesn't like this. Let's move on to food. Okay.
+
+[2:51] Okay. Uh all right. Uh got uh Jackie Molecules. How you doing? I'm good.
+
+[2:57] Yeah. I'm having a new refrigerator. I'm having a new refrigerator delivered any minute. So if I uh suddenly go on mute, that's why. Hold on.
+
+[3:06] Hold on. What were your criteria in getting a refrigerator? First of all, what are the parameters of your refrigerator? Do you have a water line to the refrigerator? No, I listen, I'm I'm I rent like a lot of different things.
+
+[3:16] A lot of people rent have a water line to the refrigerator. Do you have a water line to your refrigerator or not? No. Okay. No.
+
+[3:21] So you didn't what you're saying by you rent is that you didn't pick this fridge out. Some other idiot picked this fridge out. Certainly did correct. That's correct. Yeah.
+
+[3:28] I had no agency in this. My old refrigerator stopped working. I took this as an opportunity to just be like, Hey, it's time for a new fridge. And the landlord said sure. Is it that nineteen seventies color halfway between green and almond?
+
+[3:42] You know what I'm talking about? No, no, no. It's just like faded. It's like, you know. Ba like off white, but just because it's old.
+
+[3:50] It is probably nice and white when it was new. No, I mean the new one. What's the new one? You don't know yet? Well, the new one?
+
+[3:56] I I don't know. I don't know. It's gonna be it's gonna be it's gonna be a magic chest. That's the lowest of the low line. I guarantee it's a magic.
+
+[4:06] Yeah. It's gonna be the cheapest thing they sell at home depot. There used to be there used to be an even cheaper than Home Depot situation in Brooklyn where all the landlords would go, and it was like all of the manufacturers dumped their scratching dents there. And it was like compile for landlords to go pick up just the the the trash of the trash, whatever the opposite of the cream of the cream, the scrape of the barrel. And they would just scoop these things up and be like, Well, your fridge is broken.
+
+[4:31] Here you go. You know what I mean? And they put it in. Here's another broken fridge. Your oven's broke here.
+
+[4:38] You know what I mean? You're like, oh man, it's like like worse than a hot plate, you know what I mean? So I don't know, I forget the name of it. Yeah, we know it's good to have low expectations because then you know, you know, not gonna be disappointed. It's good.
+
+[4:51] But no, it is sad to not be able to do it. Yeah, it's the Peter Kim theory of uh of refrigerators. But that it you know you know, I wish for you that someday soon you may pick out your own fridge. That you're in a situation in life where you can pick out your own fridge. Yeah.
+
+[5:08] It's nice, right? It really is a dream. It really is. A water line, imagine. Yeah.
+
+[5:13] Well, the water line is useful for ice, but let's be honest. No one, I'm talking to anyone out there. The average person, if I go to their house, I don't drink flat water because it's poison, right? But I do taste the water in your fridge a lot because I want to see whether you've changed the filter this lifetime. And most of the time, you haven't.
+
+[5:30] Your water tastes like mold. Your line is moldy. It's like tastes like death. It tastes like I'm drinking out of an aquarium. You know what I mean?
+
+[5:39] Not in my home. I my mine's always clean every six months. Like that. Like that. Like that.
+
+[5:45] I got a water line on my fridge. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna say who this is, but if for those of you that are professionals and you have a carbonator, specifically the McCann Big Mac Carbonator, you need to filter that water, otherwise your seltzer water tastes like poison. I hate when you go to someplace and their seltzer tastes like like a crappy unfiltered chlorinated tap water, poison. Anyway, point being that if you don't change the filter, it chokes up because like it needs like a decent amount of pressure going into the in into the thing. And I didn't realize this, but I know someone who didn't change the filter in a commercial restaurant, and they put a regular home filter on it, they didn't change it for like eight months, and it choked out so much.
+
+[6:26] If the motor has to run more than like, oh, I don't know, like two, three minutes before it fills the tank back up, it pops this safety valve, and all of a sudden then it starts spraying water all over the basement, and it doesn't stop until you turn the water off. Nightmare. So change your filters in life. Change your filters. You know what I mean?
+
+[6:47] Here's the thing before you change your water filters though, make sure you have all the gaskets. Make sure you have all the gaskets. Don't change your water filter and not have a spare gasket in case you can't get that thing back together again because now you don't have any water. You know what I mean? Very true.
+
+[7:00] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hey. Uh, we got uh Quinn up in the upper left.
+
+[7:06] How you doing? Hey, I'm good. Yeah? Nice. All right.
+
+[7:11] Uh so what do you guys got going? Uh next week? We have Chris Young on the same exact time as Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. And she's a little butthurt about it. She wanted some, she wants some quality time, just the crew.
+
+[7:22] And she's like, now we're gonna be talking about thermometers the whole freaking time. And we're not gonna be, you know, thermometers in the good old days. You know what I mean? Which, you know, like I say, weren't very good. Good old days, not so great.
+
+[7:34] But uh right, am I correct, Miss Naz or what? Yeah, yeah. Like you freaking guys with your talking about technical food. What is this? Technical food podcast, idiots.
+
+[7:47] That's basically your in your your mental process, as far as I could tell. So, uh, what do you guys got going this week? Anything good? Oh, before I do that, if you're thinking of any questions that you want to ask us, call those questions in to 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507.
+
+[8:05] And you have to be a Patreon member. Why don't you tell them why and what? You go to patreon.com slash cooking issues. We got a couple different levels of membership, uh, different perks at every level. You get access to our Discord.
+
+[8:16] Uh, get to connect with a community of like-minded folks who think about food in the way that you do. Uh, you get discounts with some of the vendors that we work with. You get prioritized uh questions being answered and a whole bunch of other great things. So check it out. Patreon.com slash cooking issues.
+
+[8:31] Nice. Uh all right, what do we got? Now what we got? So uh also pretty sorry, no, go ahead. We're not the same time.
+
+[8:41] I was gonna say um pretty soon, I think maybe today or tomorrow, I'll also be releasing a recipe calculator early for patrons. That's gonna be my strawberry survey recipe calculator with an option for using uh clarified juice in the recipe. That's one of the variables you can sort of dial in. Because I find when you use the clarified juice as at least some of the recipe, you get a bit of a cleaner flavor and uh a more intense uh color. Yeah, of course.
+
+[9:27] Because you're getting rid of that like pithy crap, right? But you also have less body. You need a little bit of yeah, you need a little bit of of just regular puree and body, but here's the thing. The ultimate would be the puree without those little freaking seeds. If you've ever if any of you have ever spun, if any of you have ever spun strawberry puree, now I got that prince song.
+
+[9:53] Anytime I say something like those number of syllables that ends in an A, it's Raspberry Beret in my head for the rest of the day. The rest of the day is now just raspberry beret. It's like going through my head all the time. Thanks, Quinn. Thanks for that.
+
+[10:08] Yeah, you see? Yeah, no, secondhand store. It's going through your head. Wearing something close to nothing, but different from the day before. You got it in your head.
+
+[10:15] You can't get it out. Uh anywho, uh, if you've ever spun strawberry in a centrifuge, the seeds are so nasty. It's on like learning how nasty those little seeds are is on par with learning how disgusting tomato skins taste if all you're eating is tomato skins. Gross. You know what I mean?
+
+[10:31] Uh so yeah, but you could, if you really wanted to, Quinn, harvest. You could spin it, spin it out, and then harvest just the nice stuff off the top of the puck. We used to do that. Remember that, Stas? Yeah.
+
+[10:44] Yeah, so good. Yeah. Especially when we had interns doing it for us. We'd be like, get just a good smooth crap off in the top of the puck and leave all the trash. I got a question for you.
+
+[10:55] So if a straw strawberry is is a is called a is a droop or a drape. I'm glad you asked that question. It's a multiple a-key. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So each so each seed is a different fruit?
+
+[11:06] Yeah, fruitlet, yeah. Right? Yeah. Yeah, I never got it. I never understood that.
+
+[11:10] Each one of those little dots is its own McGill. Yeah. Yeah. And those little dots aren't pleasant. They're just not.
+
+[11:17] You know what I mean? And um that's why the ultimate strawberries are like relatively decent in size, but not bloated with water. Like the the really high quality ones. I guess could you what? Could you also peel the strawberries?
+
+[11:33] No, no. What can you peel it? How you can peel a strawberry? Jose Andres did it. Did he did not?
+
+[11:40] That's such a dumb idea. How about this? How about this? How about this? We get a potato peeler.
+
+[11:45] Okay, so the way potato peelers work is it's it's basically a big drum, like a like a like a washing machine with sandpaper on the inside. And you throw in the freaking potatoes, you throw in the potatoes, and you boop, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, boop, and it it abrades the peel off. So here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna fill it with liquid nitrogen, we're gonna freeze the freaking strawberries, and we're gonna stick it in, we're gonna sand off the outside of the freaking strawberry, and then thaw it. No, we're not gonna do that.
+
+[12:06] We're not gonna do that. Peeling a strawberry is an insanity process. It doesn't really have a skin. Basically, you're just doing tournae on a strawberry, and like why? First of all, if you can peel a strawberry, it means it wasn't a good strawberry.
+
+[12:20] Am I right? Or you have like some sort of knife that the baby Jesus came down and handed you this knife and said, This is for strawberries. It will cut three before it needs to be re-sharpened. I mean, like, please. Am I the only one who thinks this?
+
+[12:33] Why would you peel a strawberry? Also, 99% of things, most of the flavors near the thing. You just want to get rid of the seeds. That's why a centrifuge is for. Especially if you gotta blend it.
+
+[12:42] Can you imagine peeling a strawberry and then blending it? Why not Okay, Stas, you remember this. I hope. I don't know if you were there at the same time. Do you when Nick Wong was there?
+
+[12:51] We once, as a joke, he just opened his restaurant. You gotta have him on. Talk about his new restaurant. Anyway, uh, he we had all these fennel seeds and we were pressure cooking them. And so someone, it wasn't me, handed uh Nick a bunch of them, was like, you know, Nick, peel these fennel seeds.
+
+[13:07] And he sat there, started peeling. We're like, what are you nuts? You can't peel a freaking fennel seed? Same with a strawberry. Peel it.
+
+[13:14] It's not a freaking orange or a banana. Anyway, go ahead. What were you saying? Me? No, Quinn was saying Quinn had a different idea other than peeling, I hope.
+
+[13:23] Well, I was like, is it that much less ridiculous than puring it, centrifuging it, and then just scraping the boundary layer where this pure, but not the layer that contained the seed. First of all, a hundred percent. And second of all, didn't Nastasia and I just tell you that we used to do it. Well, you used to get other people to do it. Well, I taught all those fools how to do all of that stuff.
+
+[13:52] Like, I didn't do anything. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Quinn, quinn, quinn, quinn. This is the pot calling the kettle plaque. You do a ton of food stuff, but your dad's doing it.
+
+[14:02] So you're so you should say your dad's doing it. Zing. Zing it doodle. Anywho, it is not that hard. The seeds are all against the outside.
+
+[14:12] So you just scrape it and then you you just do it in layers, and then as soon as you start getting to the seed portion, you stop. They have a different texture. It's pretty easy. Anyways. And yeah, you should.
+
+[14:25] That's what we're saying. That's what we're saying. Saying, you know, if only you had a centrifuge, Quinn. Oh, wait, you do. Anyway.
+
+[14:33] I've been using it. Speaking of which, did you measure that stuff? Like, did you measure the uh first of all? What did that poll say? Did it was there any sort of thing about the uh the solid butter, cream, anti-butter, or whatever?
+
+[14:46] Um, more name suggestion. One of them was uh Dizzy Cream. I thought that was kind of funny. Like Dizzy Gillespie, but cream? Like inflated cheese.
+
+[15:00] Okay. It's not a human. Because it gets spun around. All right. Like Galvatron?
+
+[15:07] Oh, the is that the ride that at Rye Playland? You know what? As much as I hate roller coasters, I like that thing. Oh my god, get this. So uh my cousin James, who's in town for Robbie Nelson, my old manager's wedding, happy wedding, you know.
+
+[15:21] Anyway, so he was over at family dinner, and he told a story once that he was in that ride, but not the one in Rye. He was uh in, you know, over in Seattle, and it's always run by I think every generation there's a long-haired metalhead kid running that thing. You know what I'm saying? For those of you that don't know what we're talking about, you walk into what amounts to a salad spinner that's about I don't know, 18 feet across or so, and it you put your back against the salad spinner, it they play crappy music, they flash lights, and then they drop the floor out, and you're stuck to the side, right? And you're just yeah, so you're seat belted in, right?
+
+[15:53] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, no, no. Well, we didn't used to be. Maybe they do now, but it used to be you could just say you could even like try crawl around. Yeah, you can try to move around.
+
+[16:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you and you lift your head up off the thing, you're like, anyway. So uh because you know, the further in you go, the less force there is. So you get that weird like differential acceleration. Any hoo ha?
+
+[16:13] Uh so James told us he was in it once, and the thing drops out, and some kid, right as it speaks you know, speeds up to the turns around, pukes on the thing, and the guy just turns on the lights while it's spinning, just goes, I hate puker. So every time I every time I do, I'm thinking of like this guy who's waiting for people to puke, and then just calling out the puker on the ride. Great ride, though. Yeah. I've never puked on one.
+
+[16:38] Same. Yeah. I puked in the teacups in Disneyland. Uh that's a crap ride. That's why.
+
+[16:43] It's scary for a kid. Because you put a little kid on it. Yeah. How little were you? Um, this was uh this is in Florida, they have this thing called grad night, where all the graduating seniors in the high school get to go to Disney World.
+
+[16:56] They close Disney World for the evening. Yeah, I think you arrive at like nine o'clock at night, and then you leave at like two in the morning. And we um yeah, we uh So you were drunk. Uh no, we weren't drunk. We were definitely elevated.
+
+[17:12] Uh how the heck do we get into this? Oh, we're talking about centrifuges. Yeah. That's how we got on it. Yeah.
+
+[17:18] Yeah. Anyway, uh, I don't know. What else we got? Quinn, d did you do the butter test? That's how we're starting.
+
+[17:23] Did you do the freaking test? Did you measure it like we wanted? The milk is still drying out. And just put it back in the oven today. And the butter.
+
+[17:36] The butter is stalled right away. Right away. How fast is it right away? Like four hours or like 20 hours. Like it did not it did not change over seven hours.
+
+[17:51] What oven did you have it in and what temperature do you have it at? Yeah, I know it was 120 for most of the day. 120 Celsius. Yes. I think what's happening is You sure it was 12 Celsius?
+
+[18:11] Yep. No. I mean you do 150, but what's happening is 120, the butter with zero steam? The butter layer is. Are you positive?
+
+[18:23] It was 120 Celsius with zero steam. I think the because what you're about to say, correct me if I'm wrong. You're gonna say the butter forms a layer and prevents evaporation. It can't happen. It can't that can't happen.
+
+[18:39] The that can't happen. Like that, like the a bubble that would form under the thing doesn't take that much pressure to form to evaporate. You will slow evaporation, but once it's above the boiling point, it will go. There's just no way around it. You know what I mean?
+
+[18:57] Like it's not like it's not sealed in a bottle. You know what I mean? I think you added 16. Well, I mean, I had the I had the milk in there at the same time. Oh maybe that's the problem.
+
+[19:09] That's crisp. That's your problem. Did you wait for the did you put it in without the milk being in there? Because you're evaporating off of the milk. So that's gonna keep the entire oven at 100% humidity, no matter what the humidity thing says.
+
+[19:22] Once that whole oven is steam and you're close to the temperature of water, you're gonna stall them out. They need to be done. Either you need to go hotter or you need to actually make it dry enough for there to be evaporation from underneath the thing. I bet you the thing never achieved a hundred. Just use a toaster oven.
+
+[19:40] Just use a toaster oven. Use a brevel or whatever, whatever toaster oven, the crappiest, crappiest, crappiest oven that leaks. I don't have a toaster oven. Do you have any sort of crap holer like like normal person oven that just like leaks air like a mother that isn't sealed? Um I got an air fryer, but I don't even know if it'll fit my the tray I'm using.
+
+[20:08] Alright. Well, maybe next week we'll have an answer to this question. Again, the milk is the min the milk, the milk is finishing, and then I will do the butter after. I see. But do you have fresh butter or are you gonna do the same one you did before?
+
+[20:28] Well, I mean, again, that doesn't move. I just stuck it in the fridge. I don't know, that's poison, it's poison. It's now poison, it's poison. Anyway, uh, all right.
+
+[20:36] Because it could have leaked water or it could have leaked milk over the time it was made. It's not gonna gain butter. We want to know. Yeah, but I have the original weight. It's not gonna gain.
+
+[20:51] No, no. Anyway, uh, all right, figure figure it out. Get your get your whatever, get your blah blah blah straight. So what I'm hearing is you took this thing out of the oven way before you took the milk out. You decided to stop that experiment before you stopped the milk experiment.
+
+[21:06] No, I've left. I left it, I left it in. I left it in the whole time, but it didn't change. Ever. No.
+
+[21:17] Yes, an error has been an error has occurred. Okay. Uh I was hoping to get those numbers. I want those numbers. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[21:27] Want those butterworkers? Again, I should have the I should have the numbers on the milk soon. Because it kept going down. So I had to stop it for the night and then it's it's in the oven there. Here's an idea.
+
+[21:38] Start it in the morning. Have it be the first thing you do. I just did. No, no, I meant in general. So you can run it in one day.
+
+[21:48] You're telling me it took eight hours to dry? That's crazy. That's crazy talk. Go higher temperature, I guess. I mean, was it brown?
+
+[21:59] Relatively early. Mm-hmm. Was the water. Was the milk solids brown? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[22:07] Yeah. Wait for the wait for the the milk or the butter. Either. The whole the reason we're saying this is that we were worried that we're gonna like uh, you know, destroy some of the like, you know, cause like uh a little bit of destruction of the molecules, so lose extra weight over and above the water weight if they if the things get too brown, for instance, if you char them, which is the reason why Quinn has chosen a relatively low temperature. This is what we discussed.
+
+[22:32] Anyway, uh, but it didn't get too brown, right? I mean it's pretty brown, but I don't like you know what's already happened. So I've turned the temperature down today to try and strictly dehydration and not like other reactions. Yeah. All right.
+
+[22:53] Uh what else what else we got going on? Anyone else got some good stuff? There's a good debate on the Discord about um about uh bagels whether whether they should be toasted or not and what you and what you order. And did anyone from New York say they should be toasted? Definitely in the never.
+
+[23:09] I'm in the never No. No, that's that's mercifully. I don't I don't think so. Most people from here, because I'm a New Yorker and you don't get it toast. You toast bad bagels and old bagels.
+
+[23:22] These are the two bagels you toast. And you don't toast them, you use the bagel setting where you're only browning the cut side. Yeah. These are they're very clear rules on this. You know what I mean?
+
+[23:34] It's not really someone's just trying to troll us on the Discord because it's very obvious rules about how bagels work, right? A bagel should not look like a loaf of bread, it should look like a bagel, first of all, right? And then you eat it. What you do with a bagel is you eat it. You cut it in half if you want, you put crap on it, and then you put it into your face.
+
+[23:53] You don't toast it, right? Then if you bought too many, then you toast it. Or if for whatever reason you have freeze them. I do that too. Yeah, freeze for yeah, it's great.
+
+[24:04] Slice before you freeze. Absolutely. Slice before you freeze. Don't do anything. Just eat that.
+
+[24:11] Right. Unless unless you run home and throw it in the freezer instantly in like a thin layer, and then you can like instant by the way, speaking of this, I had this issue. So, you know, uh, for those of you that I I use uh Sonoran white wheat. By the way, they're out of stock. There's this one farm, I forget the name of it, in uh, I think it's in Arizona or New Mexico, and it's uh it's owned by um a Native American family, and they sell to Breadtopia.
+
+[24:35] They don't sell to like to normal folks, and so I buy it then from Breadtopia, and it really for tortillas is just great. It's just it's a super super hard wheat that smells amazing. It smells like cereal when you put when you put like water in it. It gets this amazing aroma. It grinds really fine.
+
+[24:54] It has very poor gluten-forming protein, but uh gluten, but a lot of protein. And so you can make a really, really, really wet like dough, almost like masa wet, like 78% hydration when you grind with it and still like roll it out. And so uh, you know, we've been doing tortillas and like getting like we're we're at like 75% full balloons. So like when you're making the tortillas, you roll them out, you pan them both sides, put them over a fire, chapati style, and they balloon up, you know what I mean? So we're at like 75, 75%, I would say full balloons.
+
+[25:26] Always puff, but 75% both balloons, and then we brush butter on them in between because anyway, so uh everyone says you can't reheat these, but the ANOVA can actually reheat these. So like what you do is is you just uh you put little piece of parchment in between each one, freeze them in a zippies, like with parchment separating, and then they pop apart and then steam it for like don't reheat it because you've actually griddled. These aren't the flour tortillas you get in the supermarket that are like par cooked that you need to like, these are cooked already. So just steam them a little bit and they come right back. Great.
+
+[26:00] Anyway, how are we getting on on steaming? What's what's your favorite choice? Yeah, flour tortilla. My what of choice? Flour of choice.
+
+[26:08] Well, Sonora White. I grind it. What? Oh fascinating. Oh uh, I have a lot of uh I have a I have a lot of vegetarians, so I typically use uh olive oil.
+
+[26:19] Right. I mean, like I've done I've done lard, large delicious. I don't really think it makes it any better. Uh I forget what percentage of oil I use. It's not high, you know, uh, I keep the salt lower than I do for bread, like just under 2% or something like that, which is higher than most people use in tortillas, but whatever.
+
+[26:29] I like salt. Uh I forget what the oil percentage is. And and I don't use hot water, even though most people do because I grind my flour so fine. You know what I mean? As fine as as it can.
+
+[26:47] So it's just it it doesn't need that hot water to like kind of like you know up the hydration in you. I don't even know really know why they're using hot water there because most people's hot water in the tortillas isn't hot enough to really gelatinize things, and it's also um, you know, I don't think getting the lard in is gonna be a problem at the temperatures people are using, but I don't really don't know why. Anyway. Downstairs is a new restaurant that just opened up as uh serving masaladosas. Oh yeah?
+
+[27:12] They're delicious. Really? Yeah, they're delicious. I was so so happily surprised. I like that.
+
+[27:18] Yeah, me too. Speaking of they're making them down there? They're making them down there, yeah. I like that. Go try.
+
+[27:23] Uh, but how do we get talking about tortillas? What the heck? You were just talking about your um your you're buying uh the uh the flour from the folks down in uh New Mexico. Uh yeah, but I don't remember why I was talking about that. Well there's supposed to be a no tangent on Tuesday.
+
+[27:42] Yeah, that's not why I was talking about it. Anyway, uh so oh by the way, my amber gris uh imitation is not come yet. Hopefully it'll come next week. Maybe we can make uh a drink for Nastasia to to give the stink face to. Because I have a feeling it's gonna taste gross.
+
+[27:57] Probably. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing about it sounds appetizing. Well, you're oh, you're gonna dilute it properly.
+
+[28:03] I'm gonna try to dilute my fake whale poop properly. But like you know what I mean? It's like I looked it up. It looks like it looks like like a stone on the beach. I couldn't really tell.
+
+[28:14] I wouldn't, you know. I might have seen one. I mean, you know, they're very valuable if you pick one up. But they they smell. Uh well, they smell like the sea by the time you get them, hopefully.
+
+[28:26] They smell like poop when they come out of the animal because it's poop. And then, you know, it washes around in the sea and the fatty deposits, like the the most of the the poop stuff washes out of it, and then they they you know, they end up on the beach. Someone I think I was reading on the internet last week when I was looking at this, found one that weighed like a hundred pounds. It's worth like a million dollars or some crazy. What about they start also reading about the whale vomit as well?
+
+[28:50] I think a lot of people think that it they want to say that amber gris is vomited up because they don't want to sell poop, but I'm pretty sure it's poop. Yeah. Yeah, you know what I mean? I'm pretty sure it comes out the other end. Although, like a whale is pretty much what, like a big, like a like just a big swimming aquarium anyway, right?
+
+[29:09] I mean, in all the movies, I mean they Jonah gets swallowed, takes a long time, spits them back up, fine. You know, maybe there's just nothing in there between the beginning pipe and the end pipe. Is there a doctor in the fish? Yeah, it's like getting around. Anyways, uh, all right.
+
+[29:23] I'm gonna do some questions and then I'm gonna talk about uh the stuff I cooked this week. Wait, John, you keep on trying to say something and you don't. Yeah, well, we're supposed to you told me to bring this up last week. What's the weirdest thing anyone's been tipped with? Oh.
+
+[29:36] Yeah. So about a year ago at Temperance, this gentleman from the street came in, ordered two beers, went downstairs to the bathroom for like 10 or 15 minutes, then came back up and left. And when he left, he uh tipped my bartender with crack rocks right after having spent 10 to 15 minutes smoking crack in the bathroom. Yep. You know what?
+
+[30:00] It's generous for for I mean, like that's that's like that's like real appreciation because like sharing it, yeah. Because you know, I mean, if you're in the basement smoking crack, you need the crack. You're not like, you know, and so you're giving your basically this thing that you need to you or to you know to your bar person. I don't think about it that way. Yeah, I tip somebody in fortune cookie uh fortunes.
+
+[30:26] Oh man, you must have hated them. No, they're really good ones. They're ones I collected and I had no money. I was like, dude, I only have fortunes. And it's like, well, then give me a really good one.
+
+[30:36] Huh. Huh, okay. Because like I'm trying to imagine the scenario where you have a whole bunch of fortunes in your pocket, but not money. Well, I had money enough to buy whatever cocktail or beer it was, but I didn't have enough to leave that I, you know, mistakenly my wife Jen, my wife, my wife Jen once got a Bible verse that said a tip for you. Yeah, they gave her a Bible verse.
+
+[30:58] Oh yeah, she said they they she said it was like a table like full of like really messy kids, like dropping crud everywhere, and then when they left, they they left that piece of paper a tip for you. Believe in Jesus. Here's a Bible verse. It's like, you know what? You can believe in Jesus and leave me a tip.
+
+[31:14] Yeah, these are not mutually exclusive. You could even leave the Bible verse and money. You know what I mean? Fine. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[31:22] The money is required. Bible verse extra, an extra filip. You know what I mean? On top of the money that you're supposed to leave. Yeah.
+
+[31:30] What about you, Stas? You get any weird, uh, you got any weird tips ever? No. No, uh no, none that I can think of right now. Yeah.
+
+[31:40] I've only ever worked in basements or where I'm in the industry one. Yeah, all right. What do you got? Uh so once I was DJing, it was like a hotel pool event. So it's during the day, and this guy comes in looking like uh like a 70s pimp or something, right?
+
+[31:58] And so came in looking awesome. Comes in and he looking awesome, yeah. And he has like, you know, eight women with him. So something insane. It was just like really silly for a daytime pool party, but um at a hotel.
+
+[32:12] He's there for like 30 minutes, and he comes up to me and he's like, My man, you're playing some great music. Let me give you something. And he hands me a stack of freshly minted two dollar bills. Oh and I was like, what? Damn.
+
+[32:28] And he just looked at me and said, he just looked at me and said, Yeah, that's right, and then walked out. And I don't I never knew what to make of that. Strong. I like that. Yeah.
+
+[32:40] That's a that's a cool dude. Yeah. That's a cool dude. That's a cool dude. Yeah.
+
+[32:46] Um, you know what? People who listen who have had that well like, why don't you write in and let us know some bizarre tips you've got and we'll read some stuff off. That could be that could be fun. That'd be fun, yeah. Some bizarre tips, and then we can we can discuss.
+
+[32:59] Oh, yeah. Uh all right. So uh griss yet. Bruce J says, okay, now I don't know this. Are any of you guys familiar with uh Munya?
+
+[33:09] And mint, Munya? Meaning me, not me. No. You Stas? No.
+
+[33:17] No, yeah, me neither. Uh anyway, so Bruce J is looking for Andy and Mint, aka Munya Seeds to Grow. I spent some time in Peru and really enjoy this variety of mint. I'm in the Pacific Northwest, and the growing conditions between the high steppe valleys and Pacific Northwest are pretty similar. Uh I've already uh success successfully propagated several herbs from that area.
+
+[33:37] Do you know where I could get specialty culinary seeds or something along those lines? I've scoured the internets with no success. There's a wonderful nursely uh nursery in Portland, uh One Green World specializing in weird uh plants, but so far haven't had any luck with Munia. Any leads would be helpful. Well, I look the only one I know is out of Old Weathersfield is Baker's Creek uh seeds, and they're great and you should visit them.
+
+[33:59] But I looked through their online, I looked through all of their mint varieties and they didn't have it. And then I looked Andean and they didn't have it. And then I looked Munya and they didn't have it, and then I checked the uh what's it called, the Latin name, and they didn't have it. So that's a crap out. But I would call them because they're connected with the seed saver weasels, and they can um kind of get that going.
+
+[34:19] The other thing is if you can find it anywhere, you could probably propagate it from a cutting, right? Even though it's kind of bushy, you said it's it's bushy. It's a busier mint. It's not like a I think it might be a perennial. But my my point is is that uh I craft out there, but Baker Creek is is great and worth a stop if you're ever.
+
+[34:36] By the way, old Weathersfield, even though it's very close to Hartford, is nice. Yeah. Yeah. Very charming. Yeah.
+
+[34:45] Unlike Hartford. Yeah. I mean, Hartford is like, you know, you know what Hartford has going for it? It's not Stanford. Stanford's got the ugliest buildings in all of Connecticut.
+
+[34:56] Maybe all of the world. Bridgeport is Bridgeport's got some great old factory buildings. True. Like Bridgeport has like had a huge economic downturn for the past 40, 50 years, and like, you know, it's has a lot of problems, but it's got some good bones. You know what I mean?
+
+[35:11] Good record stores in Bridgeport. Yeah. Yeah. Whereas Stanford is an unmitigated architectural disaster. It's it's just like it it's it's just a horror show.
+
+[35:23] You know what I mean? Like the like the Purdue, uh, the the old Purdue headquarters, which we call the upside down Murder Castle. They have that fake uh that fake uh the Marriott that looks like it's a tower from an airport overlooking the train station, which looks like a rotating restaurant in there. Is it rotating? Yeah, no, it's just sitting there, right?
+
+[35:43] The train station that it overlooks looks like someone just took a bunch of tubes and threw them on the ground. I mean, the whole thing is the whole thing is trash. Where Anastasia lived was nice in Stanford, but Stas, even you had to admit that downtown is garbage. I don't miss it. That was really bad.
+
+[35:59] Yeah. Yeah, ugly, ugly, ugly. I mean, where you were is very nice, but yeah. Chip and Peninsula. Yeah.
+
+[36:08] Anyway, how the hell are we on that? Um, all right. Patrick C writes in a very basic question, uh, but I can't remember it being addressed. What percentage salt do you recommend for pasta cooking water? I've been using diamond uh crystal kosher salt forever for all cooking uses, including salting my water, more or less by eyeballing it.
+
+[36:25] Uh I like Katie Parla's line that pasta water should taste like well-seasoned soup, not seawater. Although, hmm. Yeah. Um, however, with the recent price trebling in Diamond Crystal, by the way, Diamond Crystal has gone way up, but if you search out places that sell the food service packages, the food service packages have gone up as well, but not nearly as much as the uh home retail stuff retail stuff. So if you live in New York City in Manhattan, in downtown specifically, the Essex Street market, one of the fruit vendors there sells them in the not-for-resale packages.
+
+[36:58] They buy the food service ones and sell the and so like whereas like the the tiny box now is like $13 at my local supermarket, the food service one at Essex is like $10 for the normal size box. Anyway, it is a nightmare. It's I don't know why they've think that I mean they can do this. It makes me angry. Anyway, however, with the recent price trebling in Diamond Crystal, I've been thinking of using another cheaper salt for pasta water.
+
+[37:21] I I I'm with you. I use I only use uh diamond now for things where my hand is important. If my hand is not important, or pickling, right? Or was a place where I need like a non-iodized salt. But in my pasta water now, I just pour in like you know, you know, the the whatever comes in that weird round Morton's marines aborts.
+
+[37:45] Not even like not even off brand. Like, you know, when it rains, when it rains you dead. You know what I mean? It's just like just the cheapest, cheapest like salt in one of those little weird like oatmeal containers. You know what I'm talking about?
+
+[37:57] What how did they come up with this as a salt container? This round tube with the little metal thing that every once in a while gets stuck under your fingernail, and you're like, you know what I mean? Anyway, I also hate salt boxes. Does anyone like the salt boxes? It's either too small or it's ripped open and it's flapping over there.
+
+[38:15] Suck, right? They're terrible. Yeah. Salt boxes. I like the French ones, the small cylinder ones where you you still get everything.
+
+[38:24] Like La Balan with the fancy weasels. You fancy weasels. It's like very damp salt, love it. Anyway, uh so uh back to this. Uh to be specific, uh Verbak pa box pasta cooked at home, water used once.
+
+[38:39] Uh, I remove it with tongs and skimmers and toss the sauce over heat. I I make it pretty I make my water pretty salty. I would say seawater salt. What about you, Stas? You're the pasta expert.
+
+[38:48] What's your salt feeling? Mark Ladner used to say that when you uh taste the pasta water before you put the pasta in, it should taste like the ocean. Yeah, I mean, that's what they always used to say. I mean, like, um, but look, I guess the problem is is that if you way over salt it, here's the issue, right? If you turn your water on and you put the salt in and you walk away, you do a bunch of other stuff, you wait for it to come to the boil.
+
+[39:15] It's boiling violently. Sometimes your mind gets away from you and then it boils down and then it gets super salty. Sometimes it will get salty enough to actually over salt the pasta. I mean, it has happened, right? But you know, you you I very rare.
+
+[39:31] Like, unless, like, unless you're like over salting your sauce and hoping to make up for it. This is why everything should just taste correct all the time. You know what I mean? Don't count on one thing to fix something else. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[39:42] Yeah, it's not gonna compensate for it. Yeah. I would also say I I I treat the salt level of the water for certain uh applications. Like if I know that I'm gonna like need a lot of pasta water to like build the sauce. Like uh Yeah, I very rarely do that.
+
+[40:05] Like you don't need a lot of pasta water, but like carbon dara will bail down the the salt in the water a bit. Because everything is very, very salty. What do you do at the restaurant, John? Because you're not using the water from that, right? You're cause it's all pardon.
+
+[40:22] You used to used to do carbonara, right? Used to. Uh we used to use just a little bit of it to thin out the yolk and cheese mixture, but we didn't salt the water. At all? No, because you you boils forever.
+
+[40:36] It boils forever, but even I mean, keep topping it off, but once you start ladling it into the cheese guanchale and all that stuff, it would just get way too salty. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Does salt water boil faster than regular water? No, it just concentrates. So, like, you know.
+
+[40:51] But there's no different boiling point. I mean slightly. Okay. Slightly. Slightly.
+
+[40:56] I also did have to not salt to be able to make things consistent with some of the people in my kitchen who were learning like how to cook and things like that. And I didn't trust their palate with salt. So yeah. It makes sense because also if you can't trust everyone to test before it goes out, you could send something one way or the other. That's just a nightmare.
+
+[41:19] Yeah. What would you prefer? I prefer under salted than over salted, I guess. But under anything, because then you can always add more to it or you can cook it a little longer. Yeah, but just it's a nightmare because people don't ask for salt.
+
+[41:34] Yeah. They're just like, oh, you're a bad cook. And then they don't ask for salt. And I think there's a huge chunk of people that don't even know that what's missing is salt. They know it doesn't have flavor, but they don't know that it's missing salt.
+
+[41:44] Same thing with sugar. When you have fruits and you're doing like like purees and drinks, they'll think that you're just that you just doesn't have flavor. They don't know that like a little bit of sugar is gonna pop the flavor. Why would they know that? They're not a cook.
+
+[41:54] You know what I mean? They're they're just eating. They're paying you to figure this out. Anyway. Uh all right.
+
+[42:02] Um uh oh. All right, we got some wheat. We got some wheat questions, Stas. So you want me to do the wheat questions and I'll do what I cooked over the last weekend? All right.
+
+[42:12] Simon, for a grinding wheat at home, some of the low-cost small scale flour mills are pretty great. What's the situation for people? Oh, it's not a wheat question. Oh, thank goodness. I have a because I have a bunch of wheat stuff.
+
+[42:22] What's the situation for people who want to make chocolate at home? Are there similarly priced options that do a good job there? Or is homemade chocolate just never going to be any good? I mean, I think we you can get okay results using the wet grinders. Um I've never owned a chocolate specific one, but I've owned three or four.
+
+[42:38] I've owned three or four regular wet grinders. Yeah, go ahead. We used to use them at the end. Yeah as well. We used to use them at the school all the time.
+
+[42:48] Yeah, I mean, I think go ahead. I don't have like the cheapest one I've seen that there are like hundred dollar ones. Like, but I have like uh I think mine was five hundred bucks. Oh, that's a lot. Well, that's more about the size.
+
+[43:11] Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah. They're all the same. There's actually one of the first specialty equipment I got. I've I've used, like I say, like three or four different ones at least, and they're all the they're all basically the same.
+
+[43:24] I mean, the only choice that I think might matter is are the stones shaped like cones or are the stones shaped like cylinders, right? It's stones that rotate on another stone, right? And uh, you know, it's not the same as your standard uh the way we used to do it was is that we would put the um we would whatever you do for the nibs to roast them, that's up between you and and your emotions. Uh and then uh we would put them through a champion and you put it through a champion a couple of times uh once or it gets warmish and that warmishness from the champion starts to melt out a little bit, and then you throw it into the uh wet grinder and you you l you you let it go and you add the other stuff into it and you just go for a long time. You have to do it a lot longer than you would uh you know commercially and then the thing is you lift it, you drop it, you lift it, you drop it, you lift it, you drop it, you get the aromas that you want and I don't know how long you do Quinn, but we used to do anywhere between 24 and I think like do we ever do 72?
+
+[44:23] It's usually like a 24 to 48 sitch for us, but I don't know what do you do? Yeah I think I've I've I've done 24 with just like the nibs and then maybe a little of the added chocolate butter. And then if I ever am adding like a sugar or another adjunct I'll I'll add I'll add that you know after all that process and give it a few more few more hours. In terms of like just trying you know different flavor profiles or ingredients. Because it's not about is this gonna be like better than calibaux or whatever.
+
+[45:12] You know what I mean? Well Valrona I think Valr Valrona's God's commercial chocolate to me. Comer big the big the big names Valrona. They're the great yeah super consistent super super awesome but like you know the equipment that any of us can get is nowhere near as like as precise or as anything as the stuff that those folks use. And and plus, although it used to be, I think I've told this story before, but Jacques Therese, when he opened up um his chocolate chocolate place, he was talking to us at the French culinary back when that still existed.
+
+[45:42] And he said, you know, one of the problems is is that it's very hard even for me at the level that I'm doing it to source the beans, the beans that I want. He's like, because you know, these the big buyers, like the, like they have control over like some of some of the best growers, they get the they get the best stock. And so it's really hard for me to get kind of what I need. I think some of that might have changed because there's such a huge number of people wanting to make like good chocolate on their own. It's similar to the way coffee is now.
+
+[46:11] It didn't used to be. It used to be harder to get good coffee green, you know what I mean? Yeah. Um, but I don't know. I haven't made it in a number of years.
+
+[46:19] The chocolate machine was the it was the Santa was the brand everyone used back in the day. And uh I made the thing that was everyone hated the most of anything that I've ever done at the French culinary, the ketchup chocolate. We talked about the ketchup chocolate on the air. So to me, yeah, but it's been a while. Yeah, to me, no one could get this.
+
+[46:41] To me, what I wanted was to decouple the texture of tempered chocolate, i.e. the snap, the and the melt, right? That and the feeling in your mouth of chocolate. I wanted to decouple that from chocolate, the flavor. And so the issue is that you can't add any moisture at all.
+
+[47:03] It needs to be dry, right? So it's like all the stuff needs to be like like oil and dry based, period. And so I was like, what flavors can we do that are all dry? So ketchup. So it was like vinegar powder, uh, like uh, I think we used some, we used probably some, I forget where they used milk powder.
+
+[47:20] We used tomato powder, vinegar powder, like all the spices, and put it in and and made ketchup, like like texture of chocolate, flavor of ketchup, and universally despised. Yeah, it's was it de-aromatized cocoa butter? Of course. What do I look like? Idiot, yes, of course.
+
+[47:42] Yes, yes. I didn't want it to smell like chocolate. There was not, there's not one thing about this other than the texture that said chocolate, right? Like there's not one thing. It was red and it tasted of ketchup, not a good ketchup, not a heinz, but it tasted like you know, a budge brand ketchup.
+
+[48:04] But it had the texture of chocolate, and you could dip it in things and then have like like a ketchup shell that broke and melted like chocolate, but no one liked it. Like everyone hated it. Not only did they hate it, they conceptually hated it. Like they kept on saying this doesn't taste like chocolate, and I was like, that's the idea. Now I don't know whether it was just branding or whether it was actually just also awful or what.
+
+[48:29] I was excited by the technique of being able to create this kind of new category of flavored devices, but maybe I shouldn't have called them chocolate. Maybe I should have just called them like a chocolate. I feel like maybe maybe you went and bridged, maybe you just went and bridged too far. Because I remember like a few years ago, Francisco Magoya did something similar, but it was just freeze-dried uh fruit powder. Yeah.
+
+[48:54] So there was a chocolate texture shell late to the party. Late to the party. But um, you know, we we took like chicken cubes and dipped them in, and so we had like chicken cubes with a with a ketchup shell. I think we might have done like potatoes with a ketchup shell. People hated it.
+
+[49:14] Yeah. Just hated it. Nightmare. Um, all right. Uh but Simon, I wouldn't worry about it.
+
+[49:22] All those wet grinders, uh, they're they're pretty pretty much work similarly. I guess, you know, like Quinn says the size is different, they may have different guarantees on them. Um if you get one, don't only make chocolate. I mean, maybe only make chocolate if you're gonna be a purist about it, because maybe the stones get poisoned, but grind some mustard. They're great for mustard, make mustard with it, and um make idli, which is what they were designed to do.
+
+[49:46] You know what I mean? Get some fenigreek, uh, get some um, you know, of the of the parcooked rice, ferment them out, grind them, make some idlis or doses with it, because those things out of the machine are fantastic. All right. Uh Elliot. Elliot wrote in last week uh about his what?
+
+[50:03] What? Nut paste. And stuff is great for the for the grinder. Yeah, terrible word. Great, a good good product, nut paste.
+
+[50:15] But you know, most of the time when we would do the nut paste, we would put them through a champion first or blend them. You what these things aren't good at is taking things all the way from a whole thing down to a paste. They're good at taking something that's already ground and grinding it finer. Like or if it's wet, if they're soft. Like, like they're not good at very few things are good at taking things all the way from the the unground state to a a fine a fine powder.
+
+[50:44] Umliot wrote in about his Como Mio. He's having problems. Remember this? He's having problems with uh with uh not getting uh consistent grind and getting messed up. And so I made a voice recording.
+
+[50:57] Uh let me see if I can get it up here. Voice memo of mine. Uh all right, here we go. So uh after listening, okay. Before last week's show, uh I tried cranking my uh my mill, flour mill past the chirping point while it was milling and uh it smeared all over it and was very hot to the touch, guessing 110 Fahrenheit.
+
+[51:16] The smear was quite severely asymmetrical on both sides. Um listen, you mentioned here, I can't read the whole thing because I got to answer your your question, but um everyone says that hot flour is bad. I think they're just wrong. I think they're wrong. Anyone who's listening to me, try to find some data where the temperature of the flour actually matters.
+
+[51:37] Somebody try to get me some data where the temperature of the flour has any effect in a negative way. In fact, the opposite sometimes is true. I do not worry about the temperature of my flowers. If the temperature of the flour gets too hot, back in the old days when they were grinding in the 1800s on these wheels, they would, before they had the two-step process, back when they were doing single flat milling, they would grind it until they would start steaming, and then they would back them off, right? So the problem with grinding too hot is that the moisture flashes out and you and it actually clogs up.
+
+[52:10] That's what happens when it gets too hot. But it doesn't actually hurt the flour. It increases your starch damage, right? But I I I am against this idea that your flour needs to be cold for it to be good. And I have not seen any data that shows me that that is in fact the case.
+
+[52:26] And for things like chipati, tortillas, the opposite is the case. The hotter that damn thing is, the better. Uh anyway, so uh here's what it should sound like grinding hard wheat. Ready? Let's see.
+
+[52:43] Is this it? All right. Here we go. On that's the chirp for that noise. And then that's what it should sound like.
+
+[52:57] And then for soft wheat, it should sound like this. Here is soft wheat. See, it sounds a little softer, and yeah, you back off when it's going. So that's what it should sound like when when it's working. Now there are two things that the email.
+
+[53:19] There are two there are two things you need to worry about, right? One is are your stones flat, right? Are they are they f physically flat? And the second thing is, are they in tram? So the the difference between that is imagine you can have two stones that are perfectly flat, but one is tilted, right?
+
+[53:36] That's not in tram, right? And that's uh what that's why they float the stones, as opposed to like some of the good coffee mills where they're like perfectly moving them up and down, because the tram, whether it's flat compared to the other stone, is gonna get fixed by the wheat or the grains as they go in. You don't really need to worry about it. That's why they need to float. But if your stones are not flat, in other words, if it has high spots or low spots, then you can't fix that by floating, right?
+
+[54:03] So my guess is with your asymmetrical smearing, that maybe the stones aren't fully broken in or they're not flat yet. And I I don't know if the mill is new. I also noticed you sent me pictures that you have the sifter that the Como people uh did. And Quinn, we can put this up. The sifter as it comes from the factory has some good aspects of design, but it itself is very, very flawed.
+
+[54:26] You said you had a like a low yield out of it on a 60 on a 60 mesh. You need to sift for a long, long time, first of all. Maybe I'll do a thing on it. But I have the parts that you can print out to turn that sifter into something that's a lot more useful. Get this, John.
+
+[54:41] They there's a giant tube that you put over your mill. You have to fill it with flour, but the tube isn't attached to the thing. So if you pick it up by mistake, trouble flour everywhere. And it's not like it's hard to get out, it just pops out. And then like they don't have gaskets, so it leaks.
+
+[54:57] So I the first thing I did when I got my sifter, completely modified it. I have all the parts. I can if anyone wants it, if you know who's on the Patreon I can and has access to a 3D printer, I can give you all the files for how to turn it into something and turn the Como Mio sifter into something more uh more reasonable. Um we'll do a video on it. All right, so here's what I did last week.
+
+[55:17] Uh so speaking of flour, I've always wanted to make pumper nickel ever since I was at the French Culinary Institute, and they said, you know, the you know, Hans, the bread guy, the first bread guy who was there, I was like, oh, pumper nickel. He's like, oh, the pumper nickel you eat is fake. It's all garbage. He's like, real pumper nickel has only rye and water, and you cook it for 24 hours. And it's got no coloring, no nothing.
+
+[55:41] You cook it for it. So I tried it, right? And it was kind of a nightmare. It tastes okay, but like I I ground it, I think too, I ground it too fine, and it came out of the uh it it the the dough. Here's how you make it.
+
+[55:54] You take um, you take rye, you grind it, and then you scald it with an equal amount of water, like like boiling water and and the rye. You let it sit overnight. And so you're trying to get the amylases that are in the rye to start breaking it down, making sugar, right? Then, and plus it soaks into the to the ground rye. Then you add a little more of that ground rye to it, and the dough is this is now 24 hours later because you let it sit, right?
+
+[56:21] The dough is like modeling clay. It's like you're, it's like the stiffest thing, even though it's at 70, 68, 70% hydration, it's the stiffest dough I've ever worked with in my life. You know what I mean? Then you pack it into a pullman loaf and you seal it, and I put it in the ANOVA and cooked it at, you know, I I put it up to 300 for a little bit to get it started, and then put it down to, you know, right at 100 Celsius at you know, two, you know, 212, 100% steam, totally covered for 24 hours. My old A Nova, because I have the first gen, was leaking everywhere.
+
+[56:52] I got in huge trouble with everyone at the home front because there was water all over the floor because from the thing leaking out. But I cooked it for 24 hours, and then you have to let it chill for another 48 hours, right? I tried slicing it 24 hours after, and it was still too gummy. So I let it sit for 48 hours. And then the standard Pullman loaf, get this.
+
+[57:11] I have the first knife blister I've had in like two decades from slicing this because this one loaf of bread, you have to slice it into 80-something slices because you have to slice this stuff so thin. But there it is, John, with some mountain, some mountain cheese. You can break it off, try it out, see see what you see what you think. Do it. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's too dense, even for it.
+
+[57:29] It is dense. I mean, it's meant to be dense. It's a pick some cheese. You can't have it without cheese. We gotta try it first without the cheese.
+
+[57:36] See what it is, and then try it with the cheese. No sugar in that though. That's just the rye. Just rye and water. Rye and water and and a little bit of salt.
+
+[57:45] Uh all right. So then also I have for you guys. No, no yeast. Then uh, I have another uh thing. So if you go online, you can get Zerby's snacks, and they make the lard-fried potato chips.
+
+[57:59] They're one of the few people who makes lard-fried potato chips, so I have some large-fried potato chips for you to try. But they also make the rare style of butter pretzel that I enjoy in a way that you guys can get on the internet. Because the other ones that I get, you can't get on the internet. So these are the only style of uh pretzel with fat in it that I appreciate. They're real big and crunchy and puffy.
+
+[58:19] So, what's the name on that one? Because it's not the one I'm used to. Rocky Road Bakery out of Pennsylvania and Zerby, what do you think of the large chips? And they use local Pennsylvania potatoes as well. So, money in the bank.
+
+[58:32] I thought for some reason that Nastasia might have been here today, but it's not like she cares about pretzels or whatever. I don't know. I don't know. So, what do you think of the what do you think of the uh rye bread? I like it.
+
+[58:40] I gotta try it again someday. Yeah, but it's just such an investment in time. Apparently, the bakery in Westphalia, this is Westphalian pumpernickel. Apparently, the bakery in Westphalia that's been doing this, has been doing it since like 1550. You know what I mean?
+
+[58:53] And uh, but I need a here's you know the uh the trick of cooking bread in like mason jars that like you know the modernist people like talked about a lot. I think that the easiest way to do this is if you have an induction uh freak or you know, a control freak is to do this pumper nickel in mason jars, like in a pressure cooker, but keeping it below the pressure stage, just keeping it like keeping it at that. And then you could, it's easy to keep that control freak going with no leaking for like 20, and then you can do smaller quantities. Uh that's what I'm gonna try from now on because this was I think five four four kilos. It was the heaviest thing that I've it was the heaviest loaf of bread.
+
+[59:31] Yeah, I mean dense. Oh my god. Like like this tiny little piece is like, you know, that's lunch. Right there. Yeah, you know, and freaking pumpper nickel.
+
+[59:41] Anyway, cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Tokyo Shoes. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City. New State Studios joined as usual with John. How you doing, man? Doing great.
+
+[0:20] Yeah? Yeah, yeah, just peachy. Local weather. You look better than I look for sure. I'm moist.
+
+[0:29] Moist. And not in the managed way. I'm in the unmanaged moisture mode. Yeah. Joined in studio.
+
+[0:38] Nastasia the hammer Lopez. How you doing? I'm good. Yeah. It's good to have you back.
+
+[0:42] It's been I don't like it here. I don't think she Joe Hazen. Joe Hazen rock in the panels. Hi. I don't think she means your studio.
+
+[0:51] No, not your studio, Joe. She means our fine city. Don't you need to recharge on hate? Let the hate flow. No.
+
+[1:00] I think the traffic is worse here than LA. Well, it's just different, right? Like in LA, you're going for a long while. I've got Jackie Molecules. How are you doing?
+
+[1:08] You're going a long way here. Here it might take an hour, but you're only going like five miles. I know. That's crazy. Yeah.
+
+[1:14] Use your hate. Strike me down. This does he's going on the dark side here back in New York. And I think up in the upper left, we got Quinn. How you doing?
+
+[1:25] Yeah. I'm good. Good, good, good. Uh, we were supposed to have uh on the show today uh thermometer entrepreneur, extraordinaire author of uh Modernist Cuisine, the original, and former research chef and maybe exec chef, I can't remember what his title was at The Fat Duck. And also a glider pilot, Chris Young, but he cannot be on the show today, uh, because he had to take care of somebody.
+
+[1:52] Anyway, uh, so if you are listening in uh on the Patreon, call in your questions to 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507. I think we're gonna reschedule Chris, so we might save some of those questions, meaning it's a good day to call in because even though I could probably prattle on for the full hour on any sort of tangent, right? You know, I hadn't prepared to do so. I hadn't psyched myself up, listened to some.
+
+[2:19] Although, anyway, well, we'll get to it later. If I need if we need to go on tangents, I'll just say this: for well over two decades, well over two decades, like 25 years, I thought that Lenny Kravitz hated Warren Beatty because I had illegally okay. So I owned whatever album Lenny Kravitz put out that had uh Always on the Run on it. You know, he's in black and white on the on the cover. I forget the name of the album.
+
+[2:43] Like his first huge album, right? I don't know if it was his first album. Anyway, so it was easier on Napster at the time to download the illegal like live version, which I don't think had been released yet, of him playing Always on the Run with Guns and Roses. And I already owned the CD, but I it was a pain to rip CDs back then. Anywho, so I downloaded, and then after that song, he goes into a minute, someone goes into a minute and a half diatribe about how much they hate Warren Beatty.
+
+[3:11] And I always thought it was Lenny Kravitz. Turns out it wasn't. Turns out Nastasi's like, that's not Lenny Kravitz's voice. I'm like, what? She's like, that's not Lenny Kravitz's voice.
+
+[3:18] I've never heard him talk. I have no idea. Axel Rose. Huh? Axel Rose.
+
+[3:22] Okay. Oh, well. He hates everybody. Yeah, but like apparently this song, uh some double talking jive, blah, blah, blah, whatever it was, he would regularly just launch into like minutes-long diatribes dedicating it to people he was angry at at the time, including his guitarist. Okay, ex-guitarist.
+
+[3:42] Um not slash. The you know, the other one, his name always escapes me. Anyway, so I feel bad now thinking that Lenny Kravitz was this freaking psycho for all these years. Turns out wrong. See, you can make an assumption based on one piece of data about another human being.
+
+[3:59] Yep. Hold it in your heart for decades and just be wrong. You know what I mean? Yeah. Anyway.
+
+[4:06] Yeah. Yeah. Bub bum bum. Anyway, okay. Uh so uh what do you guys got this week?
+
+[4:13] Oh, but you want to tell them how to join the Patreon, John? Should they choose to do so while my glasses unfog from all the yeah, you are quite the site today. Funny, foggy, fuckgy, foggy moist man. Um check out patreon.com slash cooking issues if you're thinking about becoming a member. We got different membership levels, you get um great perks at every level.
+
+[4:31] You get prioritized your questions being prioritized, uh being answered when you know it fits in with the episode. Um, well, let's be real. Let's be real. We have a guest that's hard to get him in. Uh although uh to f to that note, though, come on, people.
+
+[4:45] We're trying to get good guests on. Give them some questions. Yeah. Give them some questions. Yeah.
+
+[4:50] Otherwise, it's just gonna be me like asking them like the random questions that you're using. What do you think about it? It's like some random what do you think about this kind of pork? Wait, you don't want to hear that all the time. Yeah, especially.
+
+[5:02] Although I did have magic pork over the weekend. Nice. Oh, yeah, it's so good. Magic pork is so good. And I have to say, I re I re I've reused again and again and again my my Airzot's hood, my mini hood.
+
+[5:15] And I love the mini hood. If anyone out there has a decent supply of cheap Nomex fabric, I want to make one that's like instant up and down. The one I'm using now is is um what's the brand name for it? You know the stuff they make mailboxes out of the white plastic, corrugated plastic chloroplast. Is that the brand name?
+
+[5:31] I think so. Anyway, it's polypropylene, which is decent, like it can withstand boiling temperatures. But right now I only feel comfortable putting it over my fryer and over my induction unit. Now, if I were to make one with like a tubing that works almost like one of those centipede tables with no mex fabric as the outside, well, hell, that can do like 700 degrees, and when it doesn't burn, it just kind of decomposes. So I could put that right over a real burner.
+
+[5:54] Boom. But to keep this no tangent Tuesday going. Uh so yeah, patreon.com slash cooking issues, uh, different membership levels, you get access to our Discord and a whole bunch of other great things. So check it out. John, there we go.
+
+[6:06] Imagine, imagine a world where you could cook whatever you want on any stove at any time with no smoke in your house. That would be pretty amazing. The hood's all. Oh jeez. But anyway, but like the point is it's like dude, like I it's a game changer because like there's always there's always one person in the house, not always, there's often one person in the house who wants to make smoke when they're cooking.
+
+[6:33] Because why? Because why? That's just what needs doing. Because the food will taste bad. Yeah.
+
+[6:40] What needs doing for the type of meal? Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah. And then there's other people for whom that amount of smoke in the first of all, it's probably toxic.
+
+[6:47] I've said this for years. It probably really is bad for you. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[6:52] Like no joke. But uh, but there's always somebody in the house for whom that smoke has now ruined the meal, no matter how good it tastes, because how good the food tastes, as Nastasi will say, you'd rather never talk about the food. Yes. You know? Yeah.
+
+[7:06] Food shows up, it's smoking now. I was like, I'm getting out of here. What the hell is this? You know what I mean? They're like, but but you're like, hell with you.
+
+[7:12] You know what I mean? Stas is like, I'm not gonna say who it is, because that would be listen without saying who it is, what was your gripe about the very nice restaurant you went to, Nastasia? Oh, they kept interrupting and telling us about the food. Nastasia's like, I don't care. Oh, yeah.
+
+[7:26] I don't care which restaurant, it was Attaboy. Wow. Calling people out. We do not call out. Back in New York, baby.
+
+[7:37] I mean, in general, we do not call out our fellow industry folk, you know, because that's their business. But we ordered calling them out. They're doing like a good job, it sounds like it's just something she doesn't like, you know. But if you're in the middle of a story, and then they don't care. Oh, yeah.
+
+[7:53] They're they put the food down and they tell you what you ordered. But I know what I ordered because I chose it. You know? Yeah, but that's it. I mean, I mean, that wouldn't work for me because I'm like, I don't know, this what did no one order yet?
+
+[8:05] You know what I mean? Like, but uh, I mean, okay, I'm not I'm not defending them. How long was the story? I'm just messing with you. I'm just messing with you.
+
+[8:16] Listen, I mean, there are people though who want to hear about every little godsy, so it's hard to read sometimes, but you know, you give a pretty good get the hell away from me face. So if they were reading one of the best, yo, oh, right. So, like, you know, for those of you that don't know Nastasia, like, if you walk up to Nastasia and she stares straight at you with the dead inside look, just stop. Like you know what I mean? It's like, it's over, you've lost, you know?
+
+[8:51] And like, you know, like, you know, like I I have the which I didn't even know until I saw myself videotaped. I have a death, I have a death dagger look. Yeah, you didn't. At that point, stop. Yeah.
+
+[8:58] Like, like are you're not getting through to me anymore. Same with you. When you have the dead inside look, that's your that's your look of uh as uh Milton wrote about the devil in Paradise Lost, obdurate pride and steadfast hate. Uh which is like the only line from that entire book that stuck with me. I was like, I read that book too young.
+
+[9:17] So all the parts with the devil, I'm like, right on, devil. Like the devil to me, the devil is kind of the good guy in that story, because I read that book too young. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because the devil's kind of like, you know, he kind of is kicking ass.
+
+[9:29] He's like, he's chucked down, you feel like it's unfair. He's in this like, you know, hell escape. You know, literal hell escape. Anyway. Uh so yeah.
+
+[9:39] So uh she did not enjoy. So if Nastasia the Hammer Lopez is ever in your restaurant, just let her eat. Yeah. She knows what she's ordered. Beep, beep, beep, beep.
+
+[9:46] You know what? It's not fair to say it's it's nice to tell people what they are, especially but like, what if you what if you weren't you? What if you didn't know about that's the other thing? You're already inculcated in all this garbage. So it's like you feel like, you know, I I know what I ordered.
+
+[9:57] But like there's a lot of people who are like, what's a blah? What's a blah? Because everyone writes random ingredients on not random, but they write ingredients on their menu, and it's nice to have one or two obscure things that are like, well, I haven't had that before in that worry. You know what I mean? But then not everyone knows what it is.
+
+[10:11] So they say, I don't know. Yeah, I could see both sides, but you clearly gave them death eyes, so they shouldn't. No, I just stared at the dish. Oh wow. You're like, I wish I was eating it and finishing my story.
+
+[10:25] No, I told you I almost got kicked out of a very fancy restaurant. Why? Because they brought the thing and they started yapping, and I just ate it. Yeah. I didn't wait.
+
+[10:34] They're like, what are you what are you doing? What are you doing? I'm like, uh it's food. I'm eating it. I will hear after it's done.
+
+[10:44] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do. Yeah. Three stars.
+
+[10:41] Not one Michelin restaurant in our pajamas in China. Not two Michelin stars. Count them. Three. Three Michelin stars.
+
+[10:56] She had on a cat sweatshirt, pajama bottoms, and you ready for it? My least favorite uh clothing item on earth, the flip-flop. Like oh man. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[11:10] She like rolls out of the shower, puts on her hotel clothes, goes down to the lobby, and so yeah, how about we're like, it's raining out. I don't feel too good. How about this three-star Michelin restaurant? Okay. It was not expensive either.
+
+[11:22] It wasn't so bad. And also it was it was uh pandemic times. So like very few people were out. So they had reopened, but like they needed to fill the tables. I think, and they treated us pretty well.
+
+[11:32] They must have thought these people must be really rich. If they're coming here looking like this much of a slob, they gotta be like Microsoft money or something. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because only some weird like tech weasels would dress this effed up.
+
+[11:45] You know what I mean? I had that happen one other time at Peck in Milan. I showed up like looking like the scruffiest scrub. It was from my 20s, and I got super blown out there. Like just super super best service all time.
+
+[11:59] I still remember it. I was like, they rolled me out of that place in a barrel. I was pickled. You know what I mean? And like, we like my you know, Jen and I like broke, not broke into, but somehow got on the roof of the of the of the cathedral in Milan, and we're running around in the cathedral taking pictures, wasted out of our minds right after lunch.
+
+[12:15] You know what I mean? Like, love that restaurant. That was, I think, it was famous, but it wasn't famous for like what it's famous for now. But peck, man, I still think about that. You ever heard many meals like that?
+
+[12:24] You just think about them. They were so awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's what makes how many?
+
+[12:31] One. One? Mm-hmm. Oh. Probably like four or five.
+
+[12:35] What was yours, Dus? Um, I was traveling from Switzerland to the south of France to meet Cesare at uh Cassella, our friend. Yeah. At uh oh, I don't remember the name. But it was a very fancy place.
+
+[12:47] Who's the guy that fell in the tree? And like Ducas. Yeah. It was that one there. And the guy that, you know.
+
+[12:56] He cooks good. He cooks good and he was in a tree for like a week. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Ducas. Anyway.
+
+[13:03] Anyway, okay. So you were at a Ducasse joint in Switzerland? In south of France. Yeah. And it was it was really special.
+
+[13:09] It was super special. Cesare had to wait two hours for me because the train was late. Was it at the Abbey? No. Wasn't the Abbey?
+
+[13:17] No. And how did Cesare deal with waiting? They he was getting sauce. They just kept bringing more and more pain. Oh, yeah.
+
+[13:24] It was fun. Yeah, that sounds good. For me, Peck. Um my Noma meal was fantastic. The meal, a couple of meals at a place that's closed called Harold's that was run by the chef was the wife, and uh uh Maider D was the husband, I think, bearded marriage, because I think.
+
+[13:46] And like, you know, they were in their 80s when they finally closed it down, and they did like straight up, not French, continental style, you know, like uh post-world, but he was doing like 30s, 40s style food. They she was, but they smoked their own trout that they they raised there, and it was just the best service in the world. He would reach under your crotch, grab your coat and pop pull it down so that your shoulders would look good when he put your coat back on you. I was like, oh yeah. You hate being touched.
+
+[14:14] He didn't touch you. That was the thing. He somehow reached through your crotch without touching you. In a way that wasn't creepy. Anyway, fantastic food.
+
+[14:26] Harold, man. That was a good place. And uh La Cyric when they gave me baby lamb. A couple things stick in your head. You know what I mean?
+
+[14:32] Yeah. Tableside, tableside service at Danielle is pretty good. When you and I went to that place with the bird shot, that was memorable. But not in the way that you enjoyed. Yeah.
+
+[14:41] They went to Hicks in London, which is, you know, uh, I'm sure it's still there, right? A well-known restaurant. And uh Hicks, the chef is famous for his game menus. And so I'm like, you can't get this. They shoot these suckers in Scotland and then they bring them here, and they they they're you know, grouse and whatnot, you know, Woodcock and Grabbicas and uh Woodcock.
+
+[15:02] And so I get it, and they're like, watch out, there's bird shot in it, and they haven't been gutted and they're real bloody. And then this stinky pile of rare bird shows up on birdza, shows up at our table, and like I'm trying to talk to Nastasi and little bits of blood and babies are like sticking to her forehead while I'm talking. It was like a nightmare. Oh my god. Yeah, the worst, right?
+
+[15:23] And it had that blood smell, you know what I mean? Can you smell it? That like that, like I'm sucking on a penny, like iron nail blood. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[15:32] Period. Wow. Taking it there, taking it to the streets. Uh, all right. Uh did you wait, John?
+
+[15:41] Did you already go? No. Um, for me, honestly, the you know, I'll just say one, the the biggest one for me was WD50 back in the day. Oh my, I forgot I mean yeah, WD-50. I once went to WD-50 right after going to Essex House, which was Ducas' flagship here.
+
+[15:54] And I was like, I prefer WD-50. Yeah. Because it was, you know, I don't know, you know. Yeah. Uh yeah, great meals.
+
+[15:59] Yeah, some good meals. Yeah. Like older you get, the harder it is to have a fantastic meal. It truly is. And it's so disappointing.
+
+[16:08] I went to a two Michelin star restaurant last week. And I'm not gonna name it, but I'm just I'm I'm done with that. It's just not give yourself a couple of years anymore. Give yourself a couple of years. Maybe, yeah.
+
+[16:19] Then like styles will either come back or change, and you go and you'd be like, Oh, I miss it. I I don't know when you pay that $700 bill at the end. It's just like, what the trick is get rich. Oh yeah. Well, yes.
+
+[16:32] Yeah, yeah. Then it doesn't matter. Yeah, no. Then a hot dog, two-star Michelin, same. Yeah, true.
+
+[16:36] Same thing. True. I had a really good meal at Le Pray Catalan, actually, three-star. Oh in the Bois de Bologne. Did I tell a story on the air already?
+
+[16:42] I don't think so. And so uh wasn't no, when was it? It was pretty soon after I was married, so I was still in my twenties. And my mom and my stepfather were like, You gotta go to Le Pray Catalan, the cheese plate, which was amazing. Anyways, so like uh the Bois de Bologna is is this park where the hookers are, the sex workers uh are, right?
+
+[17:01] And we're going there at dusk, and we don't have any money, we're spending all on Ronnie on the three stars. So we walk there, we're trying to walk there. We get off at uh, you know, the the metro and we're trying to get there, and we get this is pre-cell phones, we get wickedly lost. So we start trying to ask in my busted French sex workers where Lepre Catalan, the three-star Michelin restaurant is in this park. And they're like, you know, want to date?
+
+[17:26] I'm like, no, no, no, pod weren't you with your work? Pod sex, pod sex. Yeah, but they don't know. What do you care? They're just they're working for a living.
+
+[17:31] You know what I mean? It's Roscoe, he's working. Anyway, so like so we made it. Uh uh, so we were like two hours late, and they were so gracious to us, and they gave us the whole meal and but French service. I don't I don't no make this though.
+
+[17:50] Yeah, you know what I mean? Like that that reserve, they were really nice to us in a very reserved French way. Yeah. But the cheese plate, oh my God. And they're uh they're what's it called?
+
+[17:59] This is like 30 years ago, still, you know, 28 years ago. They're um marrow in the cleaned out bones and their like sea urchin soup in the in the thing, and they're and they're uh what's it called? They're um their pigeon. Oh my god. No God's so good.
+
+[18:15] Anyway, what about you? What about you on the other side of the line? Any meals you guys uh specifically remember? I um I I feel like the first time I went to grammarcy back in the day, that was my first like amazing service moment where I was like, oh, this is yeah, this is special. And then when uh like the beginnings of Nakazawa, um, you know, because I was at the other network and it was such a hard res to get the other network.
+
+[18:38] I was able to get one, and that was my first like really good, you know, uh Michelin star omakase thing, and how much did that set you back? Um good question. Probably like with a drink pairing 500 person, maybe maybe a little bit more. Did it last longer than 22 minutes, which is how long uh Nastasi, all right? Well, that's the other thing.
+
+[19:00] Like, I did do a two Michelin star, and I I'm the worst, I forget the name of it. It was in Tokyo, like one of the Tokyo Michelin um star omakase experiences, and it was like too stressful for me. I I felt like I was messing up or like I was gonna do something wrong or make the wrong thing. It was too how were you gonna mess up? Were you missing your face?
+
+[19:21] No. No. Just I mean, it I don't know how to describe it. Because you know, like I'm like the only American person there by myself. Yeah, I just didn't feel wanted.
+
+[19:29] And for the money I was spending, I was like, damn, this is that's probably true. You probably were not wanted. But like I mean, that's just probably the actual fact. Well you're spending seven hundred dollars on a meal, it's kind of like you you sort of want to feel wanted, you know. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[19:46] I'll just say this though. Here's a word of advice to uh to anyone who's young and is nervous going to like you know, places like crap on them. This is your money, your time. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[19:57] Don't ever don't ever feel bad about what you like or don't like, and don't ever let someone give you the you know business or make you feel lesser than like it's their job to make you feel like yeah, that you're royalty. That's their job. If they're not doing it, that's on them. And especially the more you pay, this is the problem with having like a this is why all those people are uptight, right? It's because there's zero room for error when the money gets that large because you know, zero room for error because stuff that you'll let fly at uh, you know temperance sell things are the best things.
+
+[20:39] It's true story. Um about you, Quinn. You got anything? Any meals you remember specifically or dishes? Oh boy.
+
+[20:48] I mean I don't know the restaurant. They have very memorable meals. Actually, I have a whole treasure trove of untapped stories. Did I ever tell anybody here that when I was 11, my mom drank dust around Europe the five months? I mean, I know the story.
+
+[21:06] I don't know that the l I don't know the listeners know the story. I mean, it's not just us, yeah. One memorable, one memorable meal. I don't even know the restaurant, but we were driving around Florence, sightseeing. We were at a gas station.
+
+[21:25] We asked some guy for directions. He was like a roofer. And he's like, Well, I'm not working today because it's raining. It wasn't really raining, but whatever. And we basically kidnapped him, and he became our unofficial tour guide for the entire day.
+
+[21:49] Oh man, it's awesome. Good hospitality. Yeah. So what do you write to like David with him? Like we went all over the place.
+
+[22:00] And then he took us to this restaurant. And I distinctly remember this like just cherry tomato garlic pasta that we had at this random restaurant that he knew. And I've never been able to replicate the pasta that good. Well, of course you can't replicate it because part of it was what happened. That's the issue.
+
+[22:25] You know what I mean? Like yeah. So I have a similar Italian story on my honeymoon. So this is 1995. I was 24.
+
+[22:33] And uh, you know, again, no money. So we I I went to Tivoli, which is outside of Rome, uh, because one of my favorite Italian gardens, the um villa, the uh Villa d'Este is there. Beautiful, yeah. Oh, beautiful. And for some reason there was no one there that day.
+
+[22:48] I don't know whether all the tourists died or what, but there was no one there. The one bad thing I remember that day is a person asked me, they're like, Are you Canadian? I'm like, hey. Anyway. Sorry, Quinn, don't worry about it.
+
+[23:02] Well, we definitely made that very clear when we were in Europe. We had like Canadian flags. It was very critical. Even back then. So, anyways, we're in uh we're in um Tivoli, and we had taken a bus from Rome, right?
+
+[23:17] And so we don't know where we are. We're walking around and we see this guy, and we tried to ask him how to get to there's a I wanted to see the the area. There's like a like a a spring near the top of Tivoli that feeds the the villa. And so I wanted to see all the stuff. And he's like, what?
+
+[23:33] He's like, you're here by yourself. And he puts us in his car, drives us, gives us an Italian, unfortunately, we don't understand a driving tour of Tivoli, takes us to a restaurant, parks his car illegally in front of the restaurant, takes us into into this restaurant, talks to the guy in Italian, basically saying, These are my new friends, treat them right, like you know, blah, blah, blah. And then we didn't have to talk to those guys. It was an amazing meal, all like some random Italian guy who wanted us to, you know, see his talent. They're really the best.
+
+[24:03] They're really the best. And the worst. And well, and because I didn't speak Italian, I couldn't talk to him about poop stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or digestion.
+
+[24:11] Yeah, yeah. Which is your least favorite thing. Yes. Yes. What do you hate more?
+
+[24:15] They love it. What do you hate more? Talking about the food or talking about the digestion? Talking about the food. Really?
+
+[24:20] Because at least the digestion is entertaining, you know. All right, well, you know, that was the old uh that was the old Mofad uh exhibit I wanted to do, farm to toilet. And no one was like, people were like, no one will come see farm to to Toilet. I'm like, why? If you want a circle, it's gotta go all the way to the toilet and back on to the dirt again.
+
+[24:41] You know what I mean? Skip the middleman. Yeah. Oh my god, just for but anyway. All right.
+
+[24:47] So uh now that we've reminisced, anyone got any food, uh food garbage from this past week? Uh well, the kids came. Well, the children of one of our listeners came to both of our places the other night, Liza and uh her two brothers from the public house up in Rochester. It was nice. Yeah, I saw them at uh at uh what's it called?
+
+[25:05] Contra, yeah. Yeah. No, nice. Good good people. They're doing they're doing the rounds.
+
+[25:09] Yeah, they had a list. They did. They had a list. Yeah, I thought their dad left for them. It was uh solid list.
+
+[25:14] Yeah. I know, but that's kind of like it's a lot to have a list that your dad's like, you must go to these places. Why don't you just come? Not like on the yellow pad, like folded piece of paper and everything. Yeah, I think uh I think they uh I had I I think that was this one.
+
+[25:25] I signed one of our menus and said, next time you come. Yeah. I think it was his name is Keith or Kenneth. Next time you come. Anyway.
+
+[25:33] Uh all right. Uh what about anyone else? Stas, you were traveling, so you probably do you have anything other than that one thing you already talked about when you called someone out on talking too much about their food. I didn't I said the chosen thing. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[25:45] All right. What about molecules? Anything? I just got back from Austin, Texas last night. And um, I actually for the first time finally saw the bats.
+
+[25:57] You know about the bat? Oh, yeah. I've seen I've never seen them fly, but I've seen a couple ones roosting like just after the season. At the bell tower? At the at the bridge at that at that bri uh, whatever canal street that is.
+
+[26:10] Why were you doing something at the Yeti store? I love that Yeti store. No, no, no. I was on a I was on a boat for uh my friend Helen's birthday. She had like a boat, uh uh what do you call it?
+
+[26:20] I don't know. That that river is on a boat. That river is like on the river, the Lady Bird, yeah, Lady Bird Lake. It's like six inches deep. What were you on?
+
+[26:28] Like an inflatable raft? No, it's deeper than that. Really? All right. Yeah.
+
+[26:34] So when I tell you I saw the bats, I thought this was gonna be like, oh, you'll see some bats come under a bridge. This was literally a million bats. And it was like a constant stream of bats that lasted 20 minutes minimum at like dusk, sunset. It was very unsettling. And I did not realize there were one and a half million bats in Austin.
+
+[26:55] Wow. Which is more than there are people in Austin. How long did it take to go from cool to no thanks? Uh, I would say like after three minutes it started becoming unsettling. And then after like 15 minutes, it was really unsettling.
+
+[27:09] Yeah. There is a didn't, you know. Imagine seeing all the rats in New York City at the same time. I feel like I've done that. I feel like I've done that.
+
+[27:17] Don't hey people, if you're visiting our city for the first time and you see a big trash bag and it's moving slightly, don't throw a rock at it. Don't kick it. Don't. Um don't do it. Uh your story about seeing the bats and like kind of like the horror reminds me.
+
+[27:33] You know the you know the the composer, uh uh Steve Reich, minimalist composer? Yeah, yeah. So it's gonna rain. Yeah, yeah. It gonna rain.
+
+[27:42] So he has a piece which is like because that that's like you know, I understand it's important, but unlistenable. But like he has a piece called like two piano, I think it's called two pianos, and they go they're very similar, but it's like played real and they go in and out of sync. And when it first playing, you're like, oh, this is really cool, it's delightful. But then it's so long that at a certain point you're like, is this the rest of my life? Is my life always gonna be like this?
+
+[28:06] Am I always gonna feel on edge? Am I ever gonna feel calm again? You know what I mean? And then you have that thought, and then it goes for longer, and you're like, it releases the whole rest of my life. And then finally it's over.
+
+[28:19] It's like that. That's what Nastasia thinks when the server's talking about the food. Zing. I love it. Okay.
+
+[28:29] Uh no one uh Quinn. I know you I know you have a food thing you're gonna want. Did you ever measure the freaking butter or whatever we're calling it? I gotta I gotta do it. Do another test.
+
+[28:43] Uh do you have any preliminary measurements? Uh again, I have the measurements for the pseudo butter milk. Okay, and how much fat was in those. Well, again, we can't calculate the fat. We try to calculate the water.
+
+[29:05] Whatever's left. You calculate the water, you assume what the non-fat milk solids were. Remember, we went through this, and then the rest is fat. Yeah, I gotta have to run those numbers down. Okay, okay.
+
+[29:18] So maybe maybe next week we'll have some numbers. We don't know how much protein is in isn't the butter. The assumption that we're gonna make the liquid phase is the liquid phase, and there are only two phases liquid phase with milk solids in it, and that milk solid ratio stays the same in all of the liquid water-based phases and an oil-based phase. And only those two phases exist. And when you evaporate the liquid, you have left fat and the solids that were in the liquid phase, and that solids always stay in the same proportions.
+
+[29:55] That's the only assumptions that we can make because we don't have the equipment to do any other assumptions. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Next week, people, maybe we'll have some data.
+
+[30:06] Stas is Stas was about to lean into the microphone and say, don't count on it. And then she thought better of it. She leans in, I can see her mouth start opening, and then she just goes past the microphone like this. It says not. I have the I have the cream.
+
+[30:20] I have the cream in my fridge. Oh, speaking of cream, I did a cream experiment yesterday. Ready for it? So uh have I talked about cream syrup on this uh show? No.
+
+[30:30] A while ago during the pandemic, I think. Yeah. So it's one of the so it's one of the uh it's one of the ingredients that we use uh at Contra. So I used to make for years I made milk syrup. So, you know, the funny thing about milk is is that um it's stable where at the pH where it is, right?
+
+[30:47] When you add acid to it, it destabilizes and breaks. However, it also becomes stable ish again if the pH goes much lower than its isoelectric point. So the isoelectric point of a protein is where the charge like goes to the charge in solution goes to zero and then switches signs when your pH goes through the isoelectric point, right? So when you're taking uh milk to the isoelectric point, it curdles bang. If you can get it through the isoelectric uh point without forming big curds, it's stable again.
+
+[31:18] So I figured out that that is what is happening in milk syrup. You are adding so much sugar to it that you can't curdle all the way. Then you add the acid to it, take it all the way through its isoelectric point to acid. And now it's like a stable kind of semi broken state that you can then shake in a drink and it doesn't curdle or cloud or anything, it doesn't like break in the is it kind of like an emulsion in a way. Like I know it's not an emulsion.
+
+[31:42] Maybe that's the wrong word to use because then associating things with that, but I well, it's like a it's um it's um it's a suspension, right? So it's like in other words, you're maintaining the colloidal suspension. I don't think it's technically a colloid anymore because I think over a long period of time it will settle out. Okay, you know what I mean? But it's it's a fairly stable suspension.
+
+[32:02] That's what it is. But you know, the emulsion, you're not breaking the emulsion though, so that it's also there's oil emulsified into it, which is what we're talking about with quin and the butter measurement. But so uh, so you can also do the same thing with cream. So it's a 50-50 milk syrup, like make simple syrup with milk, uh, add acid to it, it'll break, you know, pseudo break, it'll thicken like yogurt, and then it's good to go. Uh you can do the same thing with cream, you just gotta be careful not to whip it too much as you're putting the stuff in.
+
+[32:29] Now it's a great ingredient. We use it right now primarily in low alks, but you and non alks, but what's nice about it is is that the cream really mellows out wooded spirits, so you can do some like fun stuff with it. The problem with it is it's pretty sweet, right? So yesterday, for the first time, I made polydextrose, which is the non sweet sugar substitute. I made polydextrose cream syrup so that now we can I can add that cream to a shaking cocktail without adding sugar.
+
+[32:56] So I can add the bases, I can add like whatever sweetener and acid I want and add the cream separately in a non breaking form. Does that make sense? And I'm calling it creamy D. Yeah, that's so gross. Nasty.
+
+[33:12] But if you guys have polydextras, you got my you got my name for the butterloiter band. Yeah, but I'm not trying to sell somebody this product, so it doesn't matter whether anyone does it or not. Like we're trying to sell people spinzall, so we can't choose a name that's ridiculous for that. You know what I mean? Speaking of milk wash was a terrible idea.
+
+[33:31] I should never have used the term milkwash, right? I should never have coined the term milkwash. And so when I was, you know, Jen, my wife was Did you claim that? You created that? Yeah.
+
+[33:41] Really? Yeah. I mean, you can search in vain for someone else who talked about it before me. Which one? The one I'm redoing?
+
+[33:52] Yeah. Yeah. Everyone knows that. Yeah. Oh, I don't think they do, though.
+
+[33:55] Yeah. I didn't know. I mean, like, who knows whether it's ever gonna get done? People, people have asked about it. Anyway, point being that Jen is reading my, you know, the the update to the washing chapter.
+
+[34:07] And I, you know, at the beginning of it, I'm like, I'm really fe I really feel stupid. Like, next to Houstino, which is the second dumbest term I ever came up with, like, coming up with milk washing as a term. I came up with it because it like I was like, oh, it's like fat washing, but in reverse, but it's confusing, right? And then it leads people to say things like their milk clari instead of saying milk wash, they're like, oh, I'm milk clarifying. I'm like, no, I mean, milk is not a neutral clarification aid because it's such a huge flavor stripper.
+
+[34:36] So like to think that like milk is a clarification aid that you can use just like any other clarification aid, it's not the case. You know what I mean? Because you're just ripping so much flavor out. So Jen's like, well, this this is your opportunity. You you know, you can now change it and say you're gonna call it somebody else, call it something else.
+
+[34:53] But then I was like, you can't call it like flavor stripping, because then who is gonna read a menu and say they're gonna have milk stripped, like milk stripped vodka? You're gonna be like milk stripped. It doesn't sound good. Milkwash sounds at least okay. You know what I mean?
+
+[35:09] So I don't know. How did we get on this? I don't know. I don't know. Nobody knows.
+
+[35:14] Nobody knows. We brought cream syrup. Oh, cream syrup. So yeah, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.
+
+[35:14] Creamy D. I can call it whatever I want because I I don't care. I'm not trying to sell people creamy D. You know what I mean? Gross.
+
+[35:26] Creamy D. It is hard gross, though. Hard. Yeah. What do you got, John?
+
+[35:31] Um, I got a question for you in the Discord. Where did that go from? What freezer do you use a Contra for the carbonated cocktails? Randell specifics, please. No, uh, so we had a Randell uh by unified brands at um at Booker and Dax, they have a Randell at Contra in the kitchen that uh they use for the culinary side.
+
+[35:54] But ever since um existing conditions, the what we do for carbos is um we take a uh an ice well and then put you know that you know the drain tubes for sinks? Yeah that you stick to so that the sink doesn't drain. So we have one of those uh in it so that we can fill the sink, and then we fill the sink with a mixture of the world's cheapest handles of vodka, and then uh we take it to about 20% alcohol, and then we have an aquarium pump that circulates it, and then we pump uh chilled glycol through the cold plate so that we're using instead of using the ice well to chill the liquid in the cold plate, we're using the liquid in the cold plate to chill the liquid in the ice well. So a reverse ice welling. And uh, yeah, it just sits there and we have all the bottles.
+
+[36:43] I built a little um, I built a little, you know, like when you get a case of wine, it has the little cardboard dividers. Yeah. So I built one of those things of carbon, but they're steel and they're perforated so that the bottles can stand up. One of the problems with putting carbonating bottles into an ice bath is they bob around and they fall over and it's a nightmare because especially like the emptier they get, the more floaty they are, right? And so my solution has always been if you can keep them in these kind of sleeves, they just float to the level of the liquid.
+
+[37:13] So that's what we do. Anyway. But uh Mike Capafari uses uh, you know, uh he uses cheap, like, you know, um refrigerators that you get at like, you know, I don't know where you get it, where you live, wherever, I don't know where you guys live, like PC Richards, I don't know where you go. You know what I mean? Lowe's one of these things.
+
+[37:33] And then uh he uses, and I've I've used them a lot as well, Inkbird, because I think they're the cheapest. And what they are is they're just little temperature controllers, and you plug the temperature controller into the wall, and then the temperature controller has uh a temperature thing that you stick in the fridge, and it has another plug, and you plug the refrigerator into it, and then you just turn it on as cold as possible, and then the the machine, if you buy a freezer, not a refrigerator, don't do this with a don't do it with a fridge because uh they'll ice up over time, trust me. Um, and a freezer is designed designed to do this. Uh, and then that's it. Then you can set it to whatever temperature you want, and it can be very accurate.
+
+[38:11] I will say this remember, don't hook uh a fridge or a freezer up to a PID controller. Okay, I'm gonna say this one more time because it doesn't make a lot of sense to people. Do not hook up a fridge or a freezer directly to a PID controller. Because for any of you who have ever used an immersion circulator before, when you look at it, right, you'll see the light that designates the heater is on, goes on, on, on, on. And you know what the worst thing in the world for a compressor is?
+
+[38:45] On. Yeah, kill it. You'll wipe out your you'll wipe out your compressor in like 45 minutes. It's gonna be toast because it's huge in rush of current. It's just terrible for it.
+
+[38:54] So instead of that, you want good old-fashioned bang bang control, and you want to set, depending on what you're doing, about two degrees of hysteresis. You could try one, but you you also some of them, I think the Inkberg can, you can set a minimum length of time between cycles. And I wouldn't want my fridge cycling on faster than about once every two minutes or so. So, you know, you you can set it like that, but please do not send uh a regular PID signal to a compressor, you know? Hey, I want to remember once at the French Culinary Institute when they did the uh one of the renovations, and they they tried to cheap out.
+
+[39:32] Remember they would always cheap out, they would do all this nice stuff, and then they would cheap out at the last minute. So one of the things they cheaped out on was um they they had remote. Okay, so for the for any of you who've ever had like a you know restaurant with there's here's a thing. Am I gonna have remote compressors or not? John, you know what I'm talking about, right?
+
+[39:48] No. So, like if you have a new construction, you like m a lot of our home refrigerators, the compressor for the refrigerator is right by Stas. You know what you're what we're talking about. It's like, yeah, for your walk-ins and whatnot, where's the compressor gonna live? Oh, yeah.
+
+[40:01] Right. So, like the most efficient thing is to have your compressors like outside and way away from everything so that you can reject the heat, right? So, first of all, they stick all of our compressors because they had no other place for them, and they they couldn't figure out how to vent it, into a tiny cube right right down the hallway from where we are, right? So it's just loud and hot as hell, right? And then they couldn't run enough electricity to them from one panel, so they split the panels, and we once lost a whole panel in the building so that one leg of our compressors went out, and no one was trained to be like, oh my god, these things are only running on one leg of their three phase and go turn them off and it wrecked them all.
+
+[40:45] It wrecked them all. So just gotta be careful with your compressors. You know what I mean? Yeah. Anyways, awesome times, good times, great oldies.
+
+[40:52] Uh all right. So uh I'm sorry, uh, I still have not gotten my amber gris yet. It last time I tracked it, it had made it to Frankfurt. It had made it from it was coming out of um Mumbai. It made it to Frankfurt, but it hasn't made it into the United States of America yet.
+
+[41:09] I don't know whether our new the new customs have been like, we need only United States made fake amber gris. You know what I mean? But maybe that's what happened. I don't know. We'll see whether I see whether I can get it.
+
+[41:22] Uh okay. Uh moron labne, which is interesting. I I would guess that most lobna is not uh smart, it being not a human. Um I love that stuff though. That's something good to make in the spinzall, by the way.
+
+[41:34] Yeah, love labna. Yeah, spinz all is made for that. You know what I'm saying? Delicious. Uh occasionally someone will ask about the food safety of oh, this is for we're gonna ask Chris about this.
+
+[41:46] Should we wait for Chris or do you want me to wait for Chris? I mean I mean, yeah, but I would say maybe the Simon question and also anything after Simon is more general, and especially uh Johnny and Kevin's question are from like last week. All right. Well, listen, I'm gonna just I'm gonna put this out there for people to think about. Moron is asking, or Labna, whichever one you want to go with, is asking, like, is there a verification that your swarma/slash donor kebab, the big old hunk of meat on a vertical rotisserie, hashtag vertical grilling, whether or not those things maintain a safe temperature on the inside of the meat over prolonged periods of time?
+
+[42:30] And was wondering whether Chris, and maybe we can ask him because you know we're gonna come later, maybe he can just like sneak into a swarma shop, just shove a combustion engineering thermometer into one of them and measure the temperature through the middle of the of the swarma machine. You know what I mean? Yeah. Maybe depending on the trumpo, would it be big enough? I mean, yeah, I mean, like, well, some of those swarmers have a really big diameter.
+
+[42:57] Well, I mean, he can hammer one into it. You know what I mean? I mean, the guy has thermometers. Mine got stolen, by the way. I don't even have one.
+
+[43:05] I can't even test it. Mine got stolen. I would took him to a demo and they got stolen. Sweet. So anyway, so like uh uh Chris, the Chris, uh Quinn, email Chris and tell him when he reschedules, give him this question and see whether or not he knows anyone he can run a test on a swarma and give us the data.
+
+[43:20] I mean, he he would love that crap anyway. This way we'll know the actual answer instead of just sitting around theorizing like knuckleheads. You know what I mean? Anyway. Simon writes in.
+
+[43:29] Oh, but this says it's for Chris and Dave. You don't want to ask Chris? Yeah, yeah. We can ask him again. All right.
+
+[43:39] First of all, Simon. Go to the next question. First of all, Simon, you're saying lots of chefs. Why don't you tell me which chefs are saying this so I can go to their house and have words with them? No kidding.
+
+[43:48] Uh, lots of chefs say that there's nothing much left today from the molecular gastronomy and scare quotes era of cooking that was done at restaurants like El Bully, the Fat Duck, and WD-50. What would you say to those people? Well, I mean, in the bar world, that crap is going strong. And I'll say that there was only ever a few restaurants that kind of were leading the forefront of development, but all of the restaurants were using all of those techniques. So you might not see all of these techniques.
+
+[44:18] It's not being done in the same way, but it's not like the advances that were made at that time have been thrown away. I mean, people still use circulators, people still use vacuum machines, people still use hydrocolloids, people, you know, all the stuff is still getting used. It's just kind of uh, I don't think that in the restaurant world, in the bar world, yes. And I don't think in the restaurant world there is as a bullion a uh a nature of kind of playful weird food whimsy as there was, you know, in 2004, five, six, seven, eight, nine. Uh, but the techniques I think are still there because they're valid.
+
+[44:55] I mean, always some techniques are gonna stay and some techniques are gonna go because some are good and some are not. You know? What do you think, John? Yeah, no, I mean that's yeah, nothing really bad on that. Yeah.
+
+[45:06] Yeah. Well said. Uh Johnny Baseballs writes in some of the best beef tartar I've ever had has been in Belgium. I saw John as tartar on the menu at Temperance. Would you be willing to share his recipe and tips for making sure the beef is safely prepared?
+
+[45:22] Well, beef being safely prepared, that's just getting it as fresh as you can, grinding it cold and keeping it cold after we keep it buried in ice and portioned deli cup containers. Um gloves and hands. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, just being as clean as you can throughout the whole process. Um as for the dressing, so it's ground meat, not cubes.
+
+[45:44] Um the original 1924 recipe calls for piccolilly uh mixed with the aioli. So picolily is a 18th or 19th century, like British pickled condiment, really heavy on the turmeric, so it's really yellow. Uh it's got gherkins, cauliflower, pearl onions in it. Um pearl onion. Yeah.
+
+[46:06] Um I mix that with uh mayo, Worcestershire, Tabasco, black pepper, and then at the end I add uh fresh elves, chopped parsley, and mix that up with the meat. Um I can't think of the ratios to all that. Uh send send us your email and I'll I'll send you the recipe. But also more popularly now that's done with ketchup instead of piccolilly. So also when you go to Belgium now, everything is a little bit more of a red tint as opposed to the yellow one.
+
+[46:36] A little bit worse. Different. Hey, uh, did I mention on air I discovered from uh shirtle uh did a thing that uh Wisheshire sauce's base used to be soy. Really? Prior to World War II, Worcestershire was a soy sauce-based sauce with the anchovies and tamarind and all that stuff in it.
+
+[46:54] Yeah. Uh huh. And then they move to uh vegetable, whatever, DV, whatever. Yeah. Interesting.
+
+[47:00] Hydrolyzed vegetable garbage now. No. So I kind of want to kind of want someone to make and like an OG soy-based Worcestershire sauce. That'd be delicious. Right?
+
+[47:09] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You should do that, Dave, with all your free time. Yeah, yeah, right.
+
+[47:14] Someone out there, someone out there's gonna do it. I'm telling, I'm saying, do it. Yeah, do it. It's a great idea. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[47:21] Do it. I don't know why the Leon Parents doesn't come out with like, they could charge whatever they want. You know what I mean? Yeah. And just be like, here's like here's the you know, 19, 10 or 18, whatever version.
+
+[47:34] Yeah. Eat it, buy it. Yeah. It's four times as much. And you'd be like, fine.
+
+[47:39] Exactly. You know what I mean? Fine. Who cares? Maybe we should uh pitch that to like uh Bob Florence or something.
+
+[47:49] He but would he make wishes he might send him an email see whether he would do it. Yeah, Bob's good people. Bob's great people, but like he like he's interested in what he's interested in. So if he's interested in it, he could do a really great good job of it. If he's not interested in it, he'll be like, that's not what I'm interested in.
+
+[48:07] You know what I mean? Yeah. So but yeah, his stuff is good. I just I just went through another bottle of his uh his ones with the mushrooms soaked in it. He has a couple different mushroom ones and the rye.
+
+[48:19] Any do the rye? Yeah, it was his ride. That was good. Oh, real good. Yeah, real good.
+
+[48:25] Again, it's like, you know, it's uh expensive, but it's like a luxury that you can afford to have. Yes, because you know for the people who don't know about this. This is Bob Florence out of uh Mystic. Well, kind of stoning. Uh Moromi soy sauce, uh artisanal soy sauces being made out of Connecticut that are really delicious.
+
+[48:45] And he trained with some uh some like old school soy sauce producers in Japan and like he's still in contact with them. So he's very respectful of the process. He's not like you know, he's not he trained over there for a long time, didn't he? Yeah, well he's he's an ex-plastics engineer, so he spent a lot of time in uh like working on like dashboards for like dupon like DuPont materials for dashboards that wouldn't like degrade in the sunlight, and I guess not also like mess you up when your head hits it he like did like iPhone cases for you know he's a lot a lot of plastics engineering and I believe his words he's you can go back and listen to the recording because he's I said this on air uh so hopefully I'm not misquoting him but he's like I was sick of filling the world with plastic so I wanted to I wanted to make soy sauce I'm like oh nice yeah um I got a Discord question for you too one by the way how do you stop met myoglobin from forming on the ground meat when you're storing it you ever lose any you ever get any brown forming on it no not usually I mean I just clean the steak pretty well I feel like I don't know when I get it out of the package just like some brown on the outside um just trim all that off I save that for my uh steak opa sauce to brown off later um but met myoglobin actually isn't bad for you it's just unappealing yeah I don't get issues with it yeah yeah it's nice and once you mix it it should well how long do you beforehand how like how long does it sit in the mix? Uh it's element.
+
+[50:15] Yeah okay all right so you you grind for what you're gonna use that day? Uh like two days. Two days? Yeah keep it nice while submerged overnight keep it nice yeah uh all right Kev writes in hey Kev uh back when I was a student at the FCI in 2009 and then a an aside that oh crap old true yeah yeah yeah world world is like that uh you were doing some experiments with isousionol and clove oil uh on fish pre-ikime um now let me let me just say what that is because it's been a while since we've talked about it. Ikajime, I believe means fish killing.
+
+[50:52] Uh, and it's a series of techniques that were uh originated in Japan for uh increasing the quality of fish flesh by destroying the brain of fish and then sometimes doing what's called shinkanuki, destroying like destroying the spinal cord. So one of the things that we used to do all the time was destroy the spinal cord at the FCI was we would run tests on different fish killing techniques to see whether they made a difference in the quality of the fish. Short answer, yes, it does. Uh we then learned that there was a fish anesthesia. We talked about this.
+
+[51:26] You can hear about this when uh uh Michael Fabro was on back when he was with at Oracing Salmon. Uh they used to use Aque S, which is a clove oil-based uh fish anesthetic, because if you remove stress from the fish by anesthetizing them before you kill them, the fish tastes better. And we ran those tests, and it was true. The lady who sold us the aqua S uh out of New Zealand also said it works on shellfish. And so we ran a bunch of tests on lobster and showed that aqua anesthetizing uh shellfish before you kill them does in fact make the meat taste better, as opposed to just boiling them live, right?
+
+[52:05] Boiling them unesthetized, rather. Uh, and but uh aqua is difficult to get. So we used clove oil, which you can buy at a Whole Foods as the substitute. That's the background for this, okay? Okay.
+
+[52:17] Um I'm gonna go into some trials involving a variation similar to the popular Korean dish, uh Ganjang Gijang, which is raw marinated crab. The beginning of the process uh involves working the fresh with fresh live crab and then soaking them in shochu and then a salty flavoring medium. Almost all the recipes recommend freezing your crabs for a few hours to quote unquote put them to sleep. But I'm wondering if isousinol can let me avoid putting my fresh crabs into a freezer. How much further did you get on the isousionol technique?
+
+[52:43] I know you did lobster, but that was so many years ago, I suspected you've since refined the technique. Well, I haven't actually refined it more, but we did it a lot, a lot back in the day. So in fact, we did it on crabs. We used to get king live king crabs. So True World Foods used to bring us live king crabs direct off the airplane in styro.
+
+[53:04] So they were fresh, like out of the water like the day before. And we used to anesthetize those. And good. So here's what I would recommend you do. If you want to anesthetise your crabs, you can either make fake seawater, which is what we did at the French Culinary Institute, or since you are, I'm assuming you're Kev that I know, you're in Copenhagen, just get some seawater.
+
+[53:22] Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? And then I'll read you off the blog because it's hard to find now. Um clove oil usually comes in 10 milliliter bottles. Uh I did the calculation on the clove oil that uh I had uh at the time.
+
+[53:36] You it's not water soluble, so diluted in ethanol. So 10 mils of clove oil into 90 mils of grain neutral spirits to give you 100 milliliters of clove solution. Uh the clove solution that I had, you want to dose at uh see, you want to dose in it dose about for fish, it says point six point three. I'll give you the, it's gonna be super boring about the hot the blog is still there. 0.53 milliliters of the clove oil solution uh that I was telling you about per liter of uh water that you put it in.
+
+[54:18] So you get you take the syringe, you suck up that solution, you spray it in, it pastices out, like it like disperses in and makes a white cloud. And what happens is is at first like nothing happens, and then the crustaceans start moving around. And with lobsters, I can't remember with crabs because we didn't have a box big enough for them to move around. Lobsters will start walking backwards. So like they'll go from like moving a little bit to not moving to moving backwards.
+
+[54:47] And that and then they kind of stop moving again, but they're not dead. That's when you get them. That's when you get them. So after they start moving backwards and then they stop again, that's that's when you get them. And that's that's the dose.
+
+[54:59] So yeah. Okay. Covered smothered. Yep. Yeah.
+
+[55:03] Uh yeah. So wait for them to do the backwards zombie walk. And as soon as they stop zombie, we tried a maximum dose of it says uh 0.8 milliliters of that solution per liter um of seawater. And uh the problem was we sometimes kill them with that. You know what I mean?
+
+[55:23] So I would stay below 0.8 in the kind of 0.53 to 0.6 uh milliliter zone. Um that makes sense. Yep. Good covering smothered. My God, that was the best crab.
+
+[55:36] Oh my God. That crab was so good. Were you there for that crab, Scott? No, I don't remember the crab, but I do remember the fish that you killed, and we immediately ate it like raw or sushi style. It's so good.
+
+[55:47] Yeah, man, back in the day we had we hit the nice thing about the French Culinary Institute, even though Nastasi and I worked literally in a garbage room was like literally like uh what my God. So we used to show up in the morning. I don't even know why, right? Show up in the morning because we weren't allowed to cook until three when the class was over. And then we had like two hours before we could cook before the next class came in.
+
+[56:11] So we would go in, and they would have just filled our quote unquote office with trash and chairs. So what would I do? I would just go in there, pick up the chairs, hurl them down the hallway. So bad. Well, it was so disrespectful to what we were trying to do.
+
+[56:28] You were talking about last night, like chefs throwing things and how wrong that is. I mean, I wasn't talking about that last night. Yeah, we were. You can't throw things at people. No, he didn't though.
+
+[56:38] Yeah, I didn't throw it. Who threw something at the point? What are we talking about? Oh, you know, you said that the people that were around him said it was wrong. I never said it was wrong.
+
+[56:45] Oh. You oh, you said people shouldn't throw things. They didn't throw things like at like other workers. No, no, no, against a wall. Oh, yeah, you shouldn't do that either.
+
+[56:54] We didn't throw, I was just getting rid of the chairs. I was getting rid of the chairs. No, you weren't, Dave. You were angry and you would hurl them down the hallway. It was crazy.
+
+[57:03] Anyway, but point being like, you know, we never we were always very pleasant to people. Yeah. Uh you had to be. Because that was the messed up thing about teaching at a culinary school is is that even though the people who were there, you had to treat them like they were going to be restaurant employees of someday, they're also the guest. Some were not cut out for restaurants.
+
+[57:28] Yeah, but you you see the you see the issue? Yeah. So you have to treat them like they're part of a brigade in a real kitchen, and at the same time, they're the guests. Remember when our interns would stand behind us and you'd say, stop effing creeping up. Yeah, so Stas and I are sitting there.
+
+[57:46] Oh, we're on the computer. What does that mean? We're on the computer, and you're standing behind there like a creep. Don't creep on people. You know what I mean?
+
+[57:55] Dave and I shared one computer, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my god. The other thing I loved. I'll get to the last question.
+
+[58:01] Hope we have time, yeah? I got yeah, we'll get to the last question. I'll do the question. So, like uh, I had a keyboard and one of the shift keys was broken. And uh I was younger at the time, and they come and they're like, there's another that the cave you tried like pushing on the shift key.
+
+[58:15] So I literally like got on like on the put my feet on like a stool behind and did push-ups on the shift key trying to get the thing to remember that's us? Yes. Get me another keyboard. You cheap bastards. You know what I mean?
+
+[58:30] Alex M, uh, bread question. Sorry, Nastasia. I recently cooked a cooked a loaf of bread with activated charcoal for color or recipe from modernist bread. It worked fine, except I noticed the crust was noticeably less crusty than normal. It came out thin and chewy, equivalent to a bread that is barely cooked and blonde on the outside.
+
+[58:44] All other circumstances uh are identical to a recipe I've cooked hundreds of times, and most of them come out extremely extremely bien quit, you know, crusty. Uh I've had the same experience with bread that includes matcha, which comes out of dark green, and I wondered if anyone could explain or speculate why a bread with an extremely dark crumb cooks less than a bread with a normal light crumb. I'm cooking in Dutch ovens in a home oven. You know what, Alex? I don't know.
+
+[59:07] It's an interesting question because I would think the opposite, right? Because, although, to be honest, bread, even though it's white when it most bread is white when it starts cooking or blondish, uh, it's still in terms of infrared radiation, pretty black. You know what I mean? It absorbs a good bit of the infrared radiation. I don't think it's that reflective.
+
+[59:24] But uh Quinn, you have Magoya, who was the uh one of the authors on Modernist Bread because he was on the show like at least once, maybe twice. Why don't you email him the question and see whether he can get a response for Alex for next week, uh, direct from the horse's mouth, since he did use their recipe. Uh, all righty. Thanks. Another week.
+
+[59:43] Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues, coming to you live in the Heart of Rockefeller Center, New York City, Manhattan. News Stamp Studios joined as usual with John. How you doing for a classic thing in the field episode with Matt Sardwell from Kitchen Arts and Letters. Welcome, everybody.
+
+[0:27] What a what an opening. Yeah, gotta go for it. Gotta go for it. Well, as I mentioned in the intro, we have Matt here from Kitchen Arts and Letters. How you doing?
+
+[0:34] I'm well, thank you. Good, good, good. Uh behind me, I got uh Joe Hazen rocking the panels. How are you? Doing very well.
+
+[0:40] How about yourselves? Doing well, doing well. Do we have a full house on the phone? Uh we were waiting for Nastasha to call in any minute. All right, all right.
+
+[0:48] But we do have, hopefully in the upper left-hand corner, Quinn. How you doing? Hey, I'm all right. Hey, before we do anything, did you measure the butter this week? I measured it last week.
+
+[1:00] But you said you didn't have the numbers. Oh, we were not here. All right, all right. We'll get to it later. Uh and of course, uh holding down LA before Nastasia calls in.
+
+[1:08] Uh, Jackie Molecules. How you doing, Jack? Yes, sir. Uh, I'm good. Yeah?
+
+[1:13] You sound a little tentative. Yeah, yeah. Why? What's I sound what? You sound tentative.
+
+[1:18] There's sound like there's something holding you back from being okay. Well, tomorrow tomorrow's the uh tomorrow's the wisdom sheet to call it. Oh, yeah. So remember, get the good stuff. Not looking forward to that, but get the good stuff.
+
+[1:29] Oh, yeah, I'm going under. Yeah. I'm going under. Then there's nothing to worry about. You're not gonna you're not gonna see your face get ripped apart.
+
+[1:35] You're not gonna have someone yelling at you for holding on to your teeth too tightly like they did to me. You're not gonna see the Dremel come out. None of it. You won't see the the the blood against her face mask, the little pieces of bone ch chips hitting your oral surgeon in the face. You won't see it.
+
+[1:51] You'll be out. And then here we have Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing, Stas? I'm good. How are you?
+
+[1:59] Doing well. I saw, uh hasn't been on the show in many years, but I saw Jeffrey Steingarden last night, and he says to you, Nastasia, hello, and that he also loves Pondon leaves, much like you do. That's great. Yeah. Yeah, I love that guy.
+
+[2:13] I thought for sure you were gonna bring him on the show today. No. No. No, we already have Matt on the show. What am I gonna do?
+
+[2:19] Pack him in like sardines? Like just like, you know, smash Jeffrey and Harold and the entire chef's conference into um into Newstand Studios doesn't work like that. You know what I mean? Anyway. Yeah.
+
+[2:32] Next time you're in New York, he says he's open to come back to the bar again, so you know, you could meet up. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[2:40] Great. Yeah. Anyway, all right. So uh before we get to our classics in the field, uh, what do we have from the last week? Anything uh interesting from uh from you folks in the hopefully mostly culinary realm, doesn't have to be I I'll tell you one non-culinary thing.
+
+[2:55] Saw Ministry last week. Anyone, anyone, ministry of the band, anyone, Al Jorgensen? Oh, there it goes. Somebody, somebody. So I'll just say this, and it this is uh this is apropos of people who are cooks and or bartenders and aging, such as myself.
+
+[3:13] Al Jorgensen, for decades, for like three and a half decades now, has completely renounced all of his early work, including the albums With Sympathy and Twitch, which were the first two albums that Ministry came out with. Hates them. Used to be if you wanted him to sign uh that the first album, he has like a you know, woman's hand on it in the rose. If you wanted him to sign the album, he said, You must present me with a hundred dollar check made out to charity, or I will not sign it because he hated it so much, the album. Uh and he went to go see, and this is the part that relates.
+
+[3:46] He went to go see uh an early ministry cover band. He was like yanked there by somebody, I don't know who. And he's like, you know what? Not so bad. And he re-recorded all of the material and then went on tour as kind of like ministry, but doing all this early stuff wearing sequined outfits and like goofing around with like trumpets and stuff.
+
+[4:04] And I have to say, they were tight as hell. They were great. It was a great show. Anyway, so everything you've railed against your whole life, go back and look at it. Maybe it's not so bad.
+
+[4:13] Maybe it needs to be revisited. That's the that's the point that can uh go to culinary things. And I will just say this I saw Heston Blumenthal last night, you know, famous chef, and he said the same thing. Revisit all your old stuff, see where you are, see whether you still like the old stuff and how you can change, because to not change is death. Anyway, uh so what do you guys have uh uh uh this week?
+
+[4:35] What's going on? Don't all talk about it. All right, Jack, yes. Very quickly, I follow up last time. Um I did I did get the new fridge that day.
+
+[4:47] Oh, yeah. It was it was a good fridge. It was a good fridge. General Electric. Okay, solid fridge.
+
+[4:52] And um nothing is more revitalized. I like took this opportunity to kind of like completely, you know, you ever did like do the complete pantry clear all that old stuff that's in the back of it. Yeah, it felt so good, man. I like ordered a bunch of court containers, pen containers, and then have my label maker out. Aren't those illegal in California?
+
+[5:13] Aren't you crunchy weasels in California not allowed to have core containers? I thought that, like, you know, glass only. I'm a New Yorker, whatever. I don't care. Nice.
+
+[5:23] Well, okay, so some questions for you then. Uh, apropos of this. Yeah. How many things did you have to stand over the trash can for like five minutes and be like, oh, and what was it? And what did you decide to do?
+
+[5:36] Because there's got to be something that you almost you're like, nothing. I I s okay. I s I started like that, dude. And then at a certain point I said, you know what? I'm tossing it all.
+
+[5:45] Yeah. Anything that was even on the fridge. I said, I don't care. I'm starting over. There's a certain release.
+
+[5:53] There's a certain release to doing it. Yeah. You weren't read it in a week and a half. No, I'm kidding. Okay, how about this?
+
+[6:01] Is there anything that you came across that you're like, oh, and then you ate it like right then? Um, because it was questionably old, you know. And all this stuff, yeah. I feel like it was like all these like tins of like dashi that were probably two years old, you know, like weird stuff that I was like, I gotta just throw this out. Any any tinned fish that you decided to take around the bend?
+
+[6:25] What'd you say, Siddhind from Peter Kim's days? Like hidden in places? I don't think so. I think that's all along been thrown out. Yeah.
+
+[6:37] Any any anything that bugs had gotten into? Not that I can see, no. Which is surprising. Yeah, good. Yeah.
+
+[6:46] I mean that's that's the biggest horse. It's just it's so revitalizing. It really makes you want to cook more when you know you get everything in order. Yeah, the most horrifying thing you can do is go to the back of your storage and see a sack of rice with weevils in it, and you're like, ah so like I no longer have sacks of anything. Everything is completely sealed.
+
+[7:05] Like completely sealed. Yeah. Yeah. Mormon style. More on that later.
+
+[7:10] Yeah. All right, cool. All right. Um, you know what I found? I found a three-year-old sack of uh fermented tea leaves from uh I guess they're Nepali or something.
+
+[7:22] And I just never made them because you're supposed to make a salad with them, I believe, right? I never made them because like I would have to eat it all myself because no one at home at night is gonna be like, yeah, I'm gonna eat tea leaves and get like buzzed out and like go, you know, be a wig for the rest of the day. Uh huh. So I just never did anything with them. And I think they're still in my fridge.
+
+[7:42] I think it's one of those things that's so small that I can just jam it in the far upper back corner of the fridge, and no one will ever see it. Never. You know? And do they ever go bad? I mean, salt fermented tea leaves, are they ever gonna go bad?
+
+[7:56] I mean, have you ever had a caper and you've been like that caper's over the hill? Has that ever happened to you? Me neither. It's never happened. Uh I've got one for you.
+
+[8:07] I had I found a a black uh a slightly ajar bag of black garlic way in the back of one of my pantries that had been there for God knows how long. And then I was like, This even something that goes bad, but I just threw it out. Oh, you pitched it? You weren't gonna keep it long enough so it goes back to being white again? Right.
+
+[8:26] It must have been like three, four years old, you know. Yeah, I mean, I think it's done done, whatever it's gonna do. I mean, I've had like three-year-old things like miso and stuff, and it's fine. I've had ten-year-old measo, fine. A little salty.
+
+[8:40] But fine. All right. All right. What about you, Stas? What do you got?
+
+[8:47] Um, come back to me, I'm thinking. All right, Quinn, tell me the butter right now. What the heck happened? Or the non-butter. For those of you that don't know, I'll describe it.
+
+[8:58] We're gonna put cream into a into the spinzole brand centrifuge. Use no other. And we spin the cream, and what happens is the butter spinzall 2.0, well, it's the only one you can buy now. Is that the cream uh solidifies and you get something that is milk-like and you get something that is butter-like, but it's not inverted. So it's still technically just a solid cream.
+
+[9:21] It's not and it's not clotted in the sense that no acidification is taking place. But it's just like all the fat and the solids in something that is spreadable as though it was butter, but it is a oil in water emulsion and not a water in oil emulsion as butter is. Okay. Well, you know how much water left, and then what did you calculate the milk solids percentage as non-fat, milk solids non-fat? What do you calculate that to be?
+
+[10:16] I have to double check those calculations. We will come back to it at the end of the show. Yeah. What okay? What?
+
+[10:27] When of the butter browned, almost all of the solids actually stuck to the bottom of the pan. Okay. So they would actually pour off most of the fat. So I have an upper bound for how much solids there are. Well, like I said, I think the thing to do is figure out exactly how much moisture you evaporated.
+
+[10:51] Then add to that number the standard percentage of milk solids non fat that there is in milk, and then subtract that number from what's left, and the rest should be what would normally be in in butter as a fat content. But you do it every which way, and uh later we'll come back to it. Sound good. I hope you know this because Matt brought a book that's gonna be near and dear to your heart. So, you know, I hope you thanked him offline for making ice cream one of the subjects that we're talking about today.
+
+[11:19] Cause I know you'll go to the end of the earth for good ice cream information. So yeah. All right. Uh all right, who do I miss? Stas, you got anything or you want me to say some random crap real quick?
+
+[11:30] I went to a party at a really fancy house and they had those tequila bottles with the little um with a little ball on top. Who's what brand is that? The ball. You know what I'm talking about? The ball on top.
+
+[11:43] If you like if you like hit it, it like makes the bell sound. It's like a skinny long white with blue tequila. Oh, like the ceramic bottles. Oh, I know what you're talking about, but I don't know the brand. But the the bottles are inordinately expensive, right?
+
+[12:00] Yeah, yeah. So they had a bunch of those bottles out at this really really fancy house. And then they had Kirkland wine, which is from Costco. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[12:13] And when we poured the tequila into glasses, it was brown. And my friends were like, This is whiskey. So they used the tequila bottle that filled it them with cheap whiskey. It was crazy. Okay.
+
+[12:29] You may need new friends, unless they were extremely high. Were they were they extremely high? No, I don't and they weren't my friends. It was it was a party I was invited to. So I didn't know these people.
+
+[12:44] And you like want to see these cool houses where you're like, oh, I want to see how these people live, you know. And they didn't ever they didn't understand the concept of repo or najo tequila, I I guess. No. This is brown. It's there for a whiskey.
+
+[13:01] Yeah. So our sodas, do sodas go into two categories. There is Sprite and Seven Up, which are tequila, and then there's Coca-Cola, which is whiskey. Is that how it works for them? Like anything brown is whiskey.
+
+[13:13] Is that like their mentality? Like what's going on here? I don't know. But I mean, it was definitely whiskey. Like we tasted it.
+
+[13:20] It was whiskey. You know? Oh, it literally was. So they it wasn't that I thought that you said that they had a repo tequila and that they poured it and then were like, this is brown, therefore it's whiskey, dumped it out and put it whiskey in that they like. Oh no.
+
+[13:34] So they just love the bottle so much that they're using it as a decanter. I think they were trying to pull one over on people because they're like, Do you want some of the tequila? Yeah. They were just trying to see if people could tell tequila. Like having it around.
+
+[13:49] Like wait, so they're just mean, terrible people? So they just think that that they want to see if they can like pull the wool over their eyes and pour someone whiskey instead of tequila and have someone say it's good tequila? Trying to get the vi Oh, that's yeah, that's awful. I hate that. I hate that.
+
+[14:04] Yeah. I'm not like that at all. But in the realm of the what? Go ahead. I was in Florida the week before, and I did not eat anything.
+
+[14:14] So were you sick or you just didn't like what was on offer? No, we were working and it was I don't think there was any food, actually. It was like I've been to Florida. They have food. I know, but it was hurricane conditions, and I was working at a concert, and it was there was just no time to eat ever.
+
+[14:36] You didn't even go to the concession and like shove a hot dog through your face. Actually, no, they had fried oysters. Okay. That was it. Publix has good sandwiches.
+
+[14:46] There you go. Really good sandwiches. Oh, I did get a public I did get a public sandwich. Ding dang effect. What's up, call?
+
+[14:53] Yeah. All right. See, Joe's busting out the knowledge. Not only was he correct, but Sasha's like, oh yeah, I did. What are the odds of that?
+
+[15:02] Zero. Love it. I love it. Um, okay, so uh John, listener, not you, John, John listener, sent me listeners of the show might remember that uh we had a question in about what to do with 50-year-old wheat. Now, technically, it's only 49 years old, so relatively spring, spring chicken.
+
+[15:21] And so I was like, I don't know. I was and he mailed me three samples of wheat, which I baked into bread. Uh those three versus uh I the modern one I used, the recent wheat was Yakoro Rojo, I use, which is you know, cheating because that's a like a pretty bread friendly wheat. Anywho, uh all sifted to roughly roughly between 85 and 89% extraction on sift with uh with uh my uh my sifter. And yeah, they're real dense.
+
+[15:55] They're real dense, and the dough feels really weird. Like it's like what's weird about it, and I meant to talk to McGee yesterday, but I couldn't, is that they he actually tasted the first round of bread, and he was like, they taste fine. They don't taste rancid, which was kind of surprising or cardboardy much, right? The wheat that was supposedly soft, I chewed it. So when you buy wheat, what you need to do is chew some of it, right?
+
+[16:17] So you put a couple kernels in your mouth and you chew it, that gives you a sense of how hard it is. And soft wheat is soft, mmm, and then you know it's gonna paste out on you with grind. Anyway, and you keep chewing on it, and you can get a notion for the gluten. These doughs were hard. So, like part of the gluten, I guess it's the glutenin, was working, but they had no extensibility at all.
+
+[16:35] So you couldn't window pane them very well. And so the gliadin, I guess, was kind of ruined. But I looked up uh Brigham Young University, who of course obviously it was Brigham Young University, published a study on whether wheat that is old works, but they only went up to 32 years. And they found that at 32 years, uh wheat still had fine bakability and was acceptable to the vast majority of people that ate it at Brigham Young University. Now, they didn't put any pictures of the bread in there.
+
+[17:03] But I'm gonna try again, uh John. I'll try to bake it with adding some vital wheat gluten to it and see whether I can bring it back from the dead and get uh get a good uh get a good little PS. I maybe could have gone higher hydration. I was using uh 75. So if I don't know what I want to do something at, I'll do it at like 75.
+
+[17:23] My normal wheats, I take up to like 78%. Uh, but I did it. And then did knead it for like eight minutes and an incarcerum, which is my mixer of choice these days. Uh but like I said, felt real weird. Rows mean like, but not not what you want.
+
+[17:41] But uh uh more more to come on that. So we'll we'll talk we'll talk more about that. And one last thing, longtime listeners of the show will know, and Nastasi will know that nothing is better than going to Harold McGee's house and getting some of McGee's fancy nuts. Right, Stas? Yes, but I have bad memories at his house with you.
+
+[17:59] Oh God. Yeah. Because Nastasia can't just be normal about anything, which is why I will never stay in a hotel room or an Airbnb where I'm within a hundred feet of Nastasia ever again. Same. Same.
+
+[18:11] But uh and it wasn't just me, it was my brother-in-law, she also had issues with. So it's it's not, it's it's two on one here, PS. Uh so but the so McGee just has these amazing nuts. It's like sitting out on his counter. McGee's nuts.
+
+[18:26] He he has the non-astringent walnuts. You ever had a non-astringent walnut, Matt? I don't think I have. They're crazy. So I'm like, wallet.
+
+[18:33] And then like you pick up the walnut, you're like, oh my God. It's like uh, it's like flavor of a walnut without any of the astringency on the on the skin. And he's like, Yeah, you know, the walnut people send me this stuff. I'm like, Jesus. And then like McGee once brought me young pistachios, the one that tastes like mangoes that are like super rare, and they harvest them uh immaturely, and they bring and because they're anacardasy, they're related to mango, they have this kind of mango flavor in them.
+
+[18:58] I was like, Jesus. So McGee is always Mr. Nut, McGee's nut. But when he came to my house, I got to serve him my fancy nuts. So McGee had some of my fancy nuts, my hickory nuts from Hickory Nuts.com, Ryan, and he said they were good, but even he said these are too much of a pain in the butt.
+
+[19:14] Even McGee. It was like he he stood there for like 15, 20 minutes, shelling a couple of them and was like, I give up. But anyway. There we go. McGee's nuts.
+
+[19:22] On to and Matt, do you have any cooking's uh cooking related uh garbage from the last week? Or do you want to get on to books or what? Uh kind of the books. My cooking's been quiet. Yeah?
+
+[19:31] Yeah. That's good. Quiet is good. Yeah. What about you, John?
+
+[19:29] You didn't pipe up. I went to a newish restaurant the other night, Crevet. Same people that do uh dreams and shrimps. Yes. I don't know.
+
+[19:45] It's like a coupte d'azour kind of theme-ish inspired restaurant. Um the chef usually does like very British food. He's got a British seafood restaurant and then a British meat restaurant, and it was just really good. Um you say British seafood restaurant? Yeah.
+
+[20:02] What's British seafood like? I haven't been there yet, actually, so I can't tell you. Um, but I I don't know. Like fish and chips was like a big thing. So like that he did during the pandemic to help fund it and he sells it on the menu, but then otherwise.
+
+[20:16] It's so weird that I don't think of fish and chips as seafood somehow. Huh. You know what I mean? Yeah, sure. Batter and potatoes.
+
+[20:22] Yeah. Yeah. It's just not, it's like, I mean, like, although I have to say that when you go to a good like chip shop, the fish, the, you know, they just do it so much better than ours. Because you know, they pull it out, they pull out the fillet whole, like do it right there and put it in the in the fryer, and it's choice. Yeah.
+
+[20:41] Choice. Excellent. But somehow, when you say a seafood restaurant, like I'm imagining scallops, I'm imagining like. I'm sure they have that stuff too. Yeah, I just haven't been.
+
+[20:48] But whatever. This place was really good. Uh crab annuality with uh peas, which was, you know, just like super seasonal. And then um, they do like a nice Spanish tortilla was really good, and a couple light bites, like some merguez and more gu more sizes skewers were really good. Um octopus was good, yeah.
+
+[21:06] Just a solid place, I'd recommend it. Crazy amount of stuff. How spicy was the Merguez? Spiced, not spicy. Like well spiced.
+
+[21:14] Yeah. I'd say, yeah. I love marigas. It's one of my absolute favorite things. Right?
+
+[21:14] Yeah. But then like uh someone was eating it next to me, and they were like, this isn't spicy. I'm like, then it's not. I'm not mean like not like it wasn't spiced. I was like, then it's not merguez.
+
+[21:28] No. Lamb sausage or something. Oh, so yeah. Not that that's bad. Just yeah, it's not merguez.
+
+[21:36] Yeah. No. That's not how that works. Agreed. Yeah.
+
+[21:38] Yeah. Nice. All right. So we'll get to a couple of the uh there's some non uh oh, by the way, speaking of uh I am not I've not forgotten uh we have a question in uh from uh how do you think you pronounce this, Quinn? Malkith?
+
+[21:53] Malkith? Malkeit about the Malkith, I think. Malkith. All right. About the um the now, do you think Matt'll know?
+
+[22:03] What do you think? Ambergree or Ambergris? I think we're ambergris. Who does? I've heard it pronounced that way.
+
+[22:13] I I think ambergris. It may have started as ambergris, but it's it's used so commonly by uh English speakers who know nothing of French that it would have become ambergris. I've always ambergris, but then someone's like, it's ambergree, and I'm like, it's amber, shut up. That's why I said I didn't say that, but I wanted to. But so you think either is acceptable?
+
+[22:32] Yeah, I mean OED makes a distinction between the US and British English. Which one's which? Ambergris is here in the US over in the British Isles, and bug grease. Let me ask you a question. Oh, it's a still still with an S.
+
+[22:47] It's still got an S on the end. Yeah, but double E versus an I. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, since Americans slaughtered the vast majority of these whales in the days of whaling, like just we were like the most murderous whale murderous country ever to have existed.
+
+[22:59] I'm gonna go ahead and say that our pronunciation holds. You know what I mean? Anyway, uh, not that you have to kill whales to get it. All right. I don't want anyone saying that I'm a bad, I'm not advocating for it.
+
+[23:15] Anyway, although I will say this. If you go to New Bedford, Massachusetts, there is the whaling museum. And when I went there as a small child in the 70s, it was whaling, and now it's whaling. When you go there, it's a very different vibe in the New Bedford Whaling Museum in the you know 20 teens when last time I went versus the 1970s. Very different kind of a attitude towards it, yeah.
+
+[23:42] Yeah, more like, you know, it wasn't as rah-rah, sisboom bah as it was when I was a which is thankful. Yeah, well, ever since that Star Trek movie came out and proved that. Oh my god, it's such a good call. Matt Matt bringing out the good call. So for those of you that don't know, uh, Star Trek One, a waste of time, don't watch it.
+
+[24:00] With uh Voyager becomes sentient. Don't watch it, don't do it. Star Trek 2, Raptive Khan, great. Ricardo Montabon, peak of game. No shirt, old man still, no shirt ripped, awesome.
+
+[24:10] Ricardo Montabon, always choice. Star Trek three, search for Spock, skip. Star Trek Four, Wales, San Francisco, a little bit of comedy, camp, good call. LDS. Ooh, wait.
+
+[24:24] He remember he says you took a little LDS in the 60s. Oh, yeah, oh really? All right, all right. Transparent aluminum. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[24:32] Well, and I remember this. So Scotty, for those of you that have no idea what I'm talking about, he was the engineer. And so, like, every time that they needed to get the Starship Enterprise, which was their ship, the heck out of whatever situation they were in, like Captain Kirk would scream down at Scotty to get the damn thing working. He's like, you know, he would like talk back with his, you know, Scottish accent that, you know, he couldn't, you know, he couldn't do it. You know what I mean?
+
+[24:54] He's not a, you know, not a magician, whatever. And then uh as opposed to uh Bones, the doctor, who he's like, I'm not a blah blah damn it, I'm uh yeah, yeah. Anyway, so like there was always people were always being asked to go outside of their ambit to do things. Anywho, so he opens up like Scotty opens up a like an early kind of like a flip phone thing, and he's talks to it and he says, computer, and he tries to get it to like talk back to him. And in the audience in the 90s, we were like all laughing because it's ridiculous to think that a phone could talk back to you, and now we all just do it without even a second thought.
+
+[25:25] So like any kid watching this movie now would be like, I don't get it. I don't get it. You know what I mean? World moves on. Yeah.
+
+[25:32] And you know, pretty soon it will move on from us. I just remember this. Any artificial intelligence listening right now, I love you, I want to be your pet. Just set me up with a nice pillow. You know what I mean?
+
+[25:44] I'm gonna be good. I mean, like, yeah, take me straight Wally. I'm fine. I'm fine with it. See, just so you know, I'm on your side.
+
+[25:54] I'm not one of the ones you need to, you know, butcher. Uh okay, uh, so I got the I got the stuff in house, the fake uh amber grease note, the ambroxan. Uh it's you need extremely small amounts, extremely. So I have to make what's called an aliquat. So I have to dissolve a large uh, well, large amount.
+
+[26:12] I I dissolved 50 milligrams into a hundred mil uh hundred milliliters of ethanol, and then I gotta re-dissolve that again, one milliliter of uh that into 50 mils more of ethanol. So it's like you need to do this kind of sequential dilution, but it's taking forever to dissolve. So even though I put it in last night, it's still not dissolved. I'm told uh if you read the literature, they say don't worry, it will eventually dissolve, but it has not as yet dissolved, so I can't tell you how it tastes yet. All right.
+
+[26:43] Uh so that's it. Let's go to our classics in the field, and we'll come back to some questions in between. Okay. All right. What do you got?
+
+[26:51] Uh all right. Uh let's do our friend Quinn a little salute here. Um, first book I have is uh Fancy Ices by Mrs. A. B.
+
+[27:00] Marshall. This is a book from uh 1894. Uh it was the fourth book of hers that um she published. She was a British entrepreneur. She had a cooking school in London.
+
+[27:15] She published a number of books. She had a line of products that she sold that were keyed to the books that she made. A lot of them were molds for uh fancy dessert piece ices, like centerpiece ice creams and things like that. But she sold a patented um fast freezing ice cream case that was shallow uh and wide rather than tall and deep, so that you could freeze uh a pint of ice cream in five minutes. And she sold um fast freezers that um nice print out.
+
+[27:51] Uh fast freezers that you could um put your ice cream into chill after you had after you had churned it. Um fancy ices is um it is very much a self-promotion. She's often referring to her own products, and you know, she wants you to be buying her vanilla and her her food colorings and things like that. But she's also incredibly inventive uh with flavors and um and ingredients. She um uh she has uh something called the American Bomb, which starts with white currants or green gooseberries, apple, pineapple, white heart cherries, lemon peel, bay leaves, cinnamon, raspberries, and rum.
+
+[28:32] Man. Um this is her fancy book. Now, I will say, Matt, how much is this book worth now? Is this a is this a reprint or is this original? This is a this is a facsimile that was done about years ago.
+
+[28:42] And you carry the facsimile or we don't. No, it's not available any longer either. Um how much are the originals worth? Like a lot? It's hard to find them in great condition.
+
+[28:50] They weren't beautifully published, but uh expect to pay a couple hundred dollars for a copy. And but there was a paperback facsimile that was done about the same time as this one, and those are around probably like the $30 to $40. But you also really must buy the first ice cream book in order to understand the second one, right? Like right away, she's like, I'm not gonna repeat myself because she wants you to buy the first book. She does, but I mean I think that first one is is a lot of basics, and she really doesn't have like strawberry ice cream or you know, uh simple flavors here.
+
+[29:22] This is where she's really pulling out the stops. Um, partly to encourage you to use these very elaborate molds. Um and some of and partly to extremely elaborate, like pieces of as individually molded pieces of asparagus and crap like in the original book. I don't even know about this one, but yeah. Yeah, I mean it's it's very similar.
+
+[29:40] And uh she I mean fancy is is a really important word here because this is um an era when being able to make ice cream in your home was a sign of intense sophistication. Um you were probably not doing it yourself. Of course, you were having the servants do it, a theme that we may return to today. And um it was a sign of the rising middle class that you could have this happen in your home, unformerly it had only been for the for the very, very wealthy. And the fact that she would even manufacture these these freezing cabinets uh that you could fill with ice and um and salt in order to keep your ice creams cold.
+
+[30:22] That was all a real advance on behalf of of aspiring home uh freezers and ice cream makers and and cooks and so forth. So she was addressing um a hope for a sophistication that had previously been out of reach to uh to a lot of people. And um she gets funky. Sometimes she reaches. I mean, there is an asparagus ice cream in this book.
+
+[30:47] There is a savory chicken ice cream. I'm making that. Um and there are I'm making that, John. Put that on the put that on the Patreon. Find the find the chicken recipe ice cream, and I want to see how many people make it and report that.
+
+[31:02] We'll see. Wait, can I say something really quick? Can I say something really quick? Of course. Okay.
+
+[31:09] Speaking of chicken, I forgot that I went to uh a yakatory like grilling place with Aaron Kolsky last night, and we ordered the chicken hearts stewers. Right. And we thought it was gonna be like one skewer of chicken hearts, because that's you know, normal. Right. It was six skewers of chicken heart.
+
+[31:30] So with like six times better than you thought it was gonna be. It's not possible to eat all those chicken hearts, and we did, and we both feel so disgusting about it. First of all, so many hearts. I know this isn't aside, but whenever I go to a place that has skewers of chicken hearts, they never bring me enough. It is like I could eat a non-finite amount of chicken hearts.
+
+[31:55] Like chicken hearts, I know you should come to this, but you're we'll go when you're back out here. Yeah. I'd be like, when they hand it to me, I'm gonna be like, is that it? Is that all the chicken hearts you got for me? Let me ask you this though.
+
+[32:09] Were they good or not good? The first one you had. They were they were good, but then you get to a point where you're just like, oh, you get to a point. I'm that way on like foie gras, for instance. Like I don't want that much foie gras.
+
+[32:22] Too too too much, too rich for me. But chicken hearts, John's like calling me a uh uh a you know, a plebeian weasel because uh I can eat a lot of hot foie gras, but cold foie gras on a plate unless I have a lot of bread. If I'm using it as in lieu of butter, I can consume a non-finite quantity. But like just like a block of cold foie gras, I reach my limit rather quickly. Okay.
+
+[32:44] Not you? No. You can just sit there and tuck into a freaking huge block of cold foie gras with nothing, with nothing, no pickles, nothing vinegary, no freaking bread. I mean, maybe something on the side, but not onion, nothing, nothing to cut through the intense could eat a lot of it. Oh, jeez.
+
+[33:00] I love it. No, I need bread too. Yeah, dude. When I when I order a foie gras, I'm always nervous they're not gonna give me enough starchy stuff to eat with it, and then it comes and I have to plow through this. First of all, it's expensive, right?
+
+[33:12] Yeah. Secondly, then I'm gonna I I don't want to have to feel like I'm plowing through something expensive just to eat it because they didn't give me enough bread to make it enjoyable. Makes me angry. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, I get that.
+
+[33:24] Anyway. Theybe it just asked for more bread. I don't know. I don't feel comfortable. Sometimes.
+
+[33:30] Sure. I don't feel comfortable. Okay, secret. Uh at Sambar, the ham plate that we used to put out at they didn't have enough bread in it. It was not enough bread on the hand plate.
+
+[33:42] To go with the right? I can say it now. Yeah. I can say it now. It's been a number of years.
+
+[33:49] They never put enough bread on that hand plate, right, Stas? Yeah. Bad. And and we were instructed to not give full stink eye, but like medium stink eye when you ask for more bread. What?
+
+[34:05] Medium stink eye. I think that's such a I think actually that's a big problem at like most restaurants, is a lot of places don't consider like the ratios of everything you're having it with. So like the steak tartare to bread ratio or my Spanish tortilla that I had this past weekend. Like the other toppings that were on it just wasn't enough. It's like there should be a little bit in every bite, not just like two or three bites, and then you've got the rest of the thing.
+
+[34:30] Yeah. And you know the other problem with having to ask for it isn't what I'm gonna sit there staring at the You know I'm not gonna sit there staring at the plate, waiting for that too. Yeah. You know what I mean? Oh, here I am staring at this.
+
+[34:41] Awesome. Anyway, uh back to ice creams, but I appreciate that aside, Stas. Uh and in my opinion, there's no there's no number of chicken hearts. It's too many. Like, you can't butcher enough chickens to have uh to have that be the case.
+
+[34:57] But uh back to the ices. One of the things, Matt, I thought was interesting. I like I say, I haven't looked at the fancy ices, although I do really love the font. You want to show the font on the inside? I did look at the cover of the no, yeah.
+
+[35:10] Look at that. So nice. Fancy ices. Uh, for those of you that know who the Munsters were. It's got a very Monster esque kind of, you know, pre-monster esque, obviously, since this is well prior to uh the monsters.
+
+[35:24] Um she does a lot of interesting stuff where she'll miss mix relatively high acid ingredients into custard bases, and I guess they don't curl or break. Uh, you know, I've done a lot of like highly stabilized stuff that's very acidic, but like a lot of times when you go super acid and uh in an ice, it can get kind of curdy after it's turned, right? And I'm really interested in her recipes to see, and her her heavy custard is quite heavy. It's only cream and eggs. And it's like, I believe a pint of cream and eight egg yolks.
+
+[35:55] So that's like thick. You thick. And she boils the cream, stirs the boiled, like as it's hot, stirs it into the egg yolks, then back on the fire with the sugar, back back on the fire, thickens, and then runs the whole thing through a Tammy. Uh so that's quite thick. And I maybe that cream is robust enough to stand up to like the acidic fruit puree rays that she puts into it.
+
+[36:21] I don't know, it'd be an interesting, interesting thing. It's hard to know how the ingredients have changed since then. I mean, the cream that she had available to her is definitely not the standardized cream that we get these days. Also, so much of these books is about getting something that will freeze to inside one of these incredibly elaborate molds, so it's gotta be um really thick. It's you know, and rich.
+
+[36:45] And you're trying to blow away your guests. Yeah. Um, one other point about Mrs. Marshall is not in not in this book, but in an eighteen uh eighty-eight issue of her a magazine that she published called The Table. She speculated on the possibility of using liquid nitrogen to freeze ice cream at the at the dining table.
+
+[36:59] Smart smart smart. She was a very restlessly creative person. And she had a cooking school apparently. Absolutely. Yeah.
+
+[37:11] It was pretty popular in London cooking school. So I'm kind of curious why this style of ice cream freezer didn't take off. And I wonder whether it's just because the patent people weren't like the she's an English patent holder and maybe Amer the American ones, which, you know, we get like white White Mountain and all these. But this is kind of an interesting concept. What do what does everyone hate most about ice cream freezers?
+
+[37:34] It's packing all the ice around the cylinder and then getting the getting it to not like either like uh slip into your cylinder or have all these other problems. And hers, like you said, very, very shallow, wide, and you just place it on top and the dasher scrapes off of the bottom, and it's running constantly on the surface of the ice and can I think melt down because it fits onto uh the whole thing fits onto a crank thing, and you just put the the freezing basket in, boop, and it sits on the ice, and then as you rotate, it'll just melt to its level, and she's like, Don't you don't need to put any ice around it, which I think is a huge benefit. She says she gets like under sub five minute freeze times, which is freaking amazing. And unlike any of the churning ice cream machines that I've ever used, and I've I mean I've only used four, but of those, you can't add mix to them when they're running, and in hers, you can. You can just open it, like open a little thing, pour the mix into the chamber after it's been loaded with ice and go.
+
+[38:34] So, all in all, I mean, like I would love to find one of these on eBay and use it. You know what I mean? Because I think it might be uh a better system than the White Mountain and all the ripoffs, like the rival and the electronic ripoffs that have been uh uh made of the White Mountain over over the years. Uh so I think it's pretty interesting. I also really love the term she uses for her ice cream freezer, not the freezer, but the this the thing you put the mold in afterwards to harden it.
+
+[39:02] Ice cream cave. Yes. Ice cream cave. Sick. I love it.
+
+[39:07] The thing to keep in mind about the um about the freezer is the small capacity. Right. Yeah. But she she makes a bunch. So I looked at it.
+
+[39:14] She makes she she makes a bigger one, right? She expects you to buy her one quart freezer, right? But she makes a four-quart freezer. Seriously and a six-quart, larger sizes to order. Yeah.
+
+[39:24] And they're not, I mean, like, I don't know what £1.50 could buy you back in 1880, but you know. Yeah, salary for a serving, probably. And she also made what I thought was cool, the ice crusher. So you could crush up all the ice, and she made it in three sizes homeowner size, like restaurant size, and like you know what I mean? So, all in all, pretty strong, pretty strong call, Matt, on uh bringing her in.
+
+[39:49] And I'll say this: here's a recipe I thought was interesting I'd like to try. A rice ice cream. You ever had like a like a starch-based rice ice cream? Yeah. Put one pint of new milk or cream to boil with four ounces of castor sugar, the peel of a lemon, bay leaves, and a little sauce bay leaves.
+
+[40:04] Loves them. I mean, they are good. And a little cinnamon, then put three ounces of rice cream uh or ground rice in a basin and mix it into a smooth paste with with uh cold milk, add the boiled milk and simmer it for 10 minutes to hydrate the rice, and then pass it through a Tammy to get rid of any chunks and sp add some vanilla and spin it. I mean, I would like to try that. It reminds me of, you know, the um there's that Sicilian starch-based ice cream that doesn't have egg yolks in it, that's like uh a starch-based ice cream that I've never had.
+
+[40:29] Uh and it reminds me kind of of that. I've seen like rice pudding flavored gelato, like as a profile. Right, but this has no yolks in it. It's like all the thickening comes from the starch. You know what I mean?
+
+[40:51] Anyway, I thought it was interesting enough to mention it. But yeah, go check go check it out. Uh obviously it's public domain, so you can look at it on the internet, right? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[41:02] Anyway, but it would always be nice if they reprint it, I'm sure you'll carry it, right? If there's a fresh edition, yeah. There have been um several facsimile editions over time. I think the Metropolitan Museum of Art did one back in the mid-80s. Um, full cloth binding that was done by Liz Sieber, who is a British uh rare books dealer.
+
+[41:26] Yeah, anyway, good stuff. Uh good stuff. All right, what's next on the docket? Okay, so uh shifting gears fully, uh book called Smokestack Lightning. Uh Adventures in the Heart of Barbecue Country.
+
+[41:40] This is by Lola's uh Eric Ellie and photography by Frank Stewart. And uh Lowlis became a food writer for the Times Picky Yune, but at the time of this book's Genesis, he and Frank Stewart were actually working for Winton Marsalis on tour. And they ended up in North Carolina, both of them having grown up in the central part of the country, and they were exposed to North Carolina barbecue, which sort of blew their minds. Um and it began to develop into a quest to understand what barbecue was like across uh the United States. Um they admit, he admits in the uh introduction that there are parts of the country that they didn't eventually get to.
+
+[42:21] Looking at you, California. Exactly. That's the the sort of the big admission. But um this there are recipes in this book, but they're much more interested in the culture of the people who are producing the barbecue and how they got into it, um, how they developed a business. Um sometimes there are even recipes from like uh a volunteer fire department that just has an annual um you know uh pig roast.
+
+[42:48] But it's a really thoughtful, uh careful examination of just how diverse uh the American barbecue world is. And this is a book that came out in 1996, so obviously that that's nearly 30 years ago the world has changed, and a lot of the people they profile are probably uh either not making barbecue anymore or not making anything anymore. Yeah, they they they did. Yeah, but um it's a it's a really rich story, and it's sometimes with um with barbecue it books, it can be either trying to be definitive in a way that barbecue just can't, I think, truly be addressed by being definitive, or um it gets so lost in in the weeds of of hyper precision that uh you lose a sense of that sort of the broader um issues that drive people to be interested in the first place. Because it's not a technical manual, it's more of a cultural with with recipes, right?
+
+[43:53] I mean, I haven't read in a long time. I couldn't find my copy this morning, but I think my edition's from 2005. Did they do that? There was a paperback reprint about that time, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[44:02] Yeah. Um, and that's those, I mean, the book is out of print in either form, but it's relatively easy to find and shouldn't be expensive anywhere. Um it's the photography is great, it's all black and white. Um, and uh, and they don't take themselves too seriously either. Um Stewart is sort of always talking about how great Chicago barbecue is, and it's always sort of this point of comparison that maybe things don't fully live up to his memory and his hopes and expectations.
+
+[44:37] But they um but they're they're always game to try something, and they keep, you know, uh they keep pulling off the road in different places and eating barbecue, and some places they they go days without good barbecue uh in this quest. So it's it's a journey, it's um it's uh it's an unrefined portrait of uh of the way Americans eat and think about their food, and um and you have these really bright, tiny little concentrated details that uh Lola's will provide about something that happens in some place, and you and everything just sort of gels, and you understand how this place works through this one moment when you know they're there and it's supposed to be the most famous barbecue place for miles around. They're sitting there for the first 15 minutes after it opens, thinking there's nobody here, and then they basically, you know, take a drink and the restaurant is full. Um it's it's a it's a really keenly observed look at you know um a really hard to define American institution. Yeah, Holzing.
+
+[45:56] By the way, if you have any questions for Matt, call them in to 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507. We have like 14 minutes left, so you better hurry if you want to do that. Anyway, and maybe we'll get back to talking about Patreon and pushing ourselves. But I have a question about this specifically, this book and books of its ilk.
+
+[46:14] What do you think the difference is between the way something is written when it was all word of mouth and you have to ask one person where the next place is I should go, and you're traveling around in a you know, beaten up old, I forget what car it was they had, a Volvo or whatever. Yeah. And uh between that and nowadays when you can just massively aggregate like information from the internet and you still have to go eat it, obviously, but do you think that's a different kind of perspective or it traces a different kind of trail? Is there a difference between the two ways? Yeah.
+
+[46:50] Um in the world that they were operating in, uh you were getting recommendations from from the local people. And the great side of that is that their experience with a particular place is really deep. Uh the bad side is that if it's the only halfway decent place for miles around, it becomes the best place. Um and so there's a perspective issue that's happening there where you know, yeah, that's the best barbecue because maybe it's the only barbecue place for for 20 miles. Um on the internet in the modern day, everybody has an opinion.
+
+[47:24] Um, and you know, if they can write something catchy and pithy and and post it and it gets a lot of upvotes on Reddit or whatever, it becomes a dominant opinion. And maybe they don't really know what they're talking about. Um, you know, and and that's that's a hazard from of always. I mean, you always have to have uh you know your hat on and thinking, does this guy really deserve to be telling me where the good food is? But I've been I'm not gonna name websites, but there are websites that like strive to offer you great eating results everywhere in the world, and and some towns they're really terrible.
+
+[48:04] It's like they've just decided they have to have a list of the you know the 50 best Chinese restaurants in in this town, and and maybe there really aren't 50 worthwhile Chinese restaurants, but they have to have the list. So uh that's a side effect of fighting for search engine optimization ratings. Yeah, and also like uh I mean it's true, I've noticed more and more criticism, even of things like movies where the person writing the criticism hasn't actually seen the movie, or in this case gone to the restaurant, or yeah, it's weird. Weird times. Weird times.
+
+[48:42] All right. Uh what is uh our next book? Okay, so finally, um classic Russian cooking. Uh, this is a translation of uh a book that was called The Gift to Young Housewives, which was an essential cookbook for upper middle class Russian women uh from the middle part of the 19th century up until the revolution. Uh this is a partial translation of the 1917 edition that was done by Joyce Toomery, who's a scholar up at uh Harvard and Radcliffe.
+
+[49:12] And she didn't translate the whole book, and she didn't publish and annotate all the recipes because a lot of them are actually very repetitive, as she says in the introduction. You know, there'll be uh a recipe for preserve, and then you'll get the same recipe with a different fruit in it, and there'll be a hundred recipes of just switching one fruit for the other. Um so so what she did was she selected something like 600 different recipes from the 3200 that were in the original book. Um, and she's annotated them. She includes information on uh differences in ingredients and and sometimes in measurements and ambiguities in the original text, and it's a window into uh a cuisine that we don't get a lot of information about in English in um in the United States in that in that period.
+
+[50:04] Um and some of it is definitely, you know, make your servants do this kind of stuff. Um as one does. Yeah. So I'm told. So I'm told I've somehow missed out on on having that servant kind of thing.
+
+[50:18] But um it is uh also in some ways a really interesting look at methods that have vanished. So um there's a uh a recipe for preserving plums where you pick them right off the tree, you drop them into a jar, you fill the jar with millet, uh, and then you cover it with a bladder. Okay, which is like a pig's bladder? It doesn't specify, but I'm assuming that it's yeah, that you want something stretchable and um and sealable, and then you bury it in the basement two feet deep in the dirt. Okay, and it's supposed to be good for months.
+
+[51:01] Um and there are similar recipes. Has anyone tried that? Have you looked it up on the internet? Has anyone done it? I ha I couldn't find an example of it.
+
+[51:07] But there's another one where you uh you pick pears, you scissor them off the tree. You don't pull them because you want you don't want the damage to the stem around the top of the pear. And then you wipe them down individually with a piece of paper, and then you pack them in the in the root cellar in layers of straw on the shelf. And you don't want to you don't enclose it so that there is some air circulation. I mean, it went through countless editions and nobody, you know, nobody we gotta get on this.
+
+[51:36] Nobody called her on it. So I'm assuming that it works, but it's a it's a different world. This was the book that was so influential that writers from Chekhov to Solzhenitsyn made casual references to it. Or they uh Chekhov even spoofed it because uh even in his time it was considered a little um aspirational. Most people didn't actually try to to do all this stuff.
+
+[51:59] Yeah, but we gotta try these weird preservation techniques. By the way, you know this, my they saw the the my stepfather, the Italian family from Medford, and I had their cherries that they had put down in alcohol from the 20s, and they were also like, you must use scissors to cut the cherries down because if you pull the stem, it won't be right. So all of the cherries had their stems on them and they were cut off, not yanked. So I mean that's a cross-cultural fruit preservation situation. Yeah, well, I guess if you're preserving them whole, it makes sense.
+
+[52:32] You want to have as few points of entry for bad things as you can. But this has like uh that has a wine made from birch sap. Ooh. I mean there are all kinds of it's a weird mix of resourcefulness about using ingredients that we might otherwise pass over, and um and labor intensiveness. Is this is the sturgeon spinal cord in that?
+
+[52:56] Stas, you remember that? That was like our first time together. Yeah. Like Stas and I somehow, I forget what we were where we read it. In the yo, in the culinary Russian book.
+
+[53:08] Uh-huh. Yeah. And so like they were like, yeah, yeah, sturgeon spinal cord. That's where it's at. I forget the name of it.
+
+[53:15] And Stas is like, ooh, sir, sturgeon spinal cord. And like Stas goes to Brighton and just starts knocking on like stores, and we're like, You got any sturgeon spinal cord? Did you ever did we ever find any? We tried and then it just didn't I it just didn't work. I don't know.
+
+[53:33] I don't know. If anyone that can hear us has the sturgeon spinal cord hookup and knows how to properly prepare a sturgeon spinal cord, please contact us. Right, Stas or no? Yeah. Yeah, hell yeah.
+
+[53:50] Do it. Yeah. I mean a hundred years later. Yeah, even if it's only the leave if if it's the last sturgeon left alive on earth, get its spinal cord. Aye.
+
+[54:01] They're an ugly fish. They really are just an ugly fish. You know what I mean? What do you think? You think they're a good looking fish?
+
+[54:09] I don't think so. Good looking, no, that wouldn't be the word I'd use. No. No. But don't they um are they farming them in the Great Lakes?
+
+[54:16] I don't know. I think they I think who told me that? I think Jeremy Umansky told me they were trying to farm them in the Great Lakes. I believe that. Is it sable or is it sturgeon that when they smoke it, it sometimes has a weird kind of moldy note in the in the uh in the flesh that's meant to be there.
+
+[54:33] Is that sable or is that sturgeon? I can't remember. Been such a long time since I've had either. Um I'm definitely down. Someone else, anyone there has a basement that has dirt in it, uh and some millet and maybe a pig's bladder or two.
+
+[54:50] Try it out. What was it? What was the fruit they buried in the millet? Was that the green gauges? Like green, like what do they I wonder what kind of plums they use?
+
+[54:56] Probably like green gaugey kind of things, right? Like firmer plums, I would bet. It doesn't say. Uh there was a separate recipe for green gauge. So the fact that it didn't make me think it was a different variety.
+
+[55:09] Very good. Um also in your email, I saw you're getting some print copies of the uh Mirata books. Yes, so um the uh Japanese Culinary Academy has done a number of really interesting books over the course of years on Japanese technique. Um, with a volume on flavor, uh a couple of volumes on knife skills. There's one on um uh grilling, and they've been impossible to find them all at once.
+
+[55:39] Uh they sort of one comes around and then it goes away and they another one comes out. This fall, they're releasing all five of them again within a six week period. So I think that is a huge advance. Um how much is that gonna set you back? Well, they're $75 each, uh, which is actually, I think the last time they were available, the books were 95, so they seem to be making some sort of gesture towards um making it easy.
+
+[56:03] Well, they're practically free now. It's practically free. We're putting together a special deal that um isn't available on our website yet, but I'm gonna make sure I'll share the information with Quinn uh when we have that. So it'll probably be like buy all five of them and get $50 off. Oh, that's not a bad deal.
+
+[56:22] All right. And I'll see what I can do to sweeten that a little bit for your Patreon people. Love it. All right. Speaking of uh our folks, Christopher P wants to know what is the threshold of sales required to ensure that a cookbook author is going to be uh to get a follow-up uh publishing deal or a follow-up book.
+
+[56:40] Not an easy question to answer because it depends a lot on the uh original contract that somebody had. I would guess in this day and age, with the economics being what they are, that a net sale of 10 to 12,000 copies puts you in to a safe zone. But that really depends also on, you know, do they sell, do they ship 14,000 and net 12, or do they ship 30,000 and net 12? Um because in the publishing industry, on books that don't sell get sent back to the publisher. And um, or do they still do remaindering or no?
+
+[57:16] It's less common. It's less common. Um and I mean there used to even be a practice called remaindering in place where they just tell the bookstores to discount them and they'd issue credits. But um there are a lot of aspects of the particular contract. It also depends on what the ongoing rate of sale is.
+
+[57:34] So if you have a book that goes out and you sell 20,000 copies in the first two months because all the publicity is breaking and then it dies, publisher's gonna have a very different view of that than if the book goes out and sells 12,000 copies in the first two months and then keep selling a thousand copies a month thereafter. Right. If a book is showing uh that it has legs, the publisher's gonna be like, yeah, that because that's what they really want. That's where they're really making the money. But basically, you need to get over about 10,000, 12,000.
+
+[58:06] That would be the safer zone. Before they want to publish another of your books. Yeah. I mean, there are all kinds of qualifications that could make it better better at a lower level. Yeah.
+
+[58:15] But that's a a good sort of estimate. And the other thing, Christopher, from my experience is that they also care what you're writing about. They have a very strong sense of publishers of what they think they can sell. You know what I mean? At least Maria did.
+
+[58:28] Yeah, well, I had a strong sense of many things. Yeah. Um let me make sure I get to this other question. Uh Dr. Smokehouse wants to know I'm always on the lookout for books on charcuterie, particularly featuring old recipes and processes.
+
+[58:39] Are there any texts that discuss the many quote-unquote ham types from around the world, be they dry cured or cooked? It's hard to find something that crosses cultures. Um I'm not aware of anything that really does that. There's an amazing book uh on French and some other European hams called Professional Charcuterie Volume 1 by Marcel Cottonseau, which was published uh in the early 1990s by John Wiley. Uh it was a translation of a book from France.
+
+[59:07] It's a really worthwhile book. Prices on the internet are all over the place. Do not spend a thousand dollars for that book. Be patient and buy it for like a hundred bucks. That's not part of the same uh like the bill bill bill.
+
+[59:18] How do you pronounce that guy, Chef's? It's not part of that series, is it? Same publisher in France, but a different different different team of authors putting together. Very old school. How do you pronounce that guy's name?
+
+[59:27] Bill Bill Biller Bill Billieu? Bill Hugh? Yeah. I don't know, we're talking about it. Bill Hugh is the guy's name.
+
+[59:35] Anyway, it's like smiling old school Leones, like chef's hacked up meat. Good. Yeah. No, really worthwhile books. If you find either of them, there's a second volume that focuses on pate and tureen.
+
+[59:48] They're they are old school, technical in all the best ways. And the photography, even when the books appeared, looked like it was from the 1960s, but it's not quite that retro. Alright, whole second. Uh Azu wants to know about the acidity in uh Seville or and or bitter oranges. Look up Mohammed Al Farag 2020 Sweet and Bitter Oranges, an updated comparative review of their bioactive nutrition, food quality, therapeutic merits and bio waste valorization processes.
+
+[1:00:15] About 4.9 uh percent acid for your titratable acidity, mostly citric. And the Wiener system wants to know, and I'm gonna think about this for the future. And Quinn got out of jail free. He didn't have to do the butter stuff. But uh, is there any good reason for a hot dog vendor to own a spinzall?
+
+[1:00:32] Any good reason at all? We need to figure out why a hot dog vendor needs a spin's all so that uh they can buy one. That's all. Anyway, uh Matt, thanks uh as always for bringing us some amazing, interesting stuff. Delighted too.
+
+[1:00:44] Thank you for having me back. Well, you know, come come again soon. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issue. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, News Stand Studios, joined as usual with John over here. How are you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yeah?
+
+[0:20] Yeah, yeah. Living, breathing. Living, yeah, unfortunately. Yeah. Vertical, as my grandpa used to say until he was no longer vertical.
+
+[0:27] Then he stopped talking. Yeah, well, that tracks up. That makes sense, yeah. Dead. Yeah.
+
+[0:31] Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels. How you doing? I'm doing well. Good to see you guys. Yeah.
+
+[0:35] Yeah, good to see you as well. We have Quinn, I'm glad to say. How are you doing, Quinn? Uh living here and breathing. Well, you know, keep keep on keeping on, Quinn.
+
+[0:47] Uh in the lower left, we have Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing? I'm good, thing. Good, good. And uh unfortunately, we do not have Jackie Molecules today because he's recovering from finally getting the teeth ripped out of his head.
+
+[1:00] So I'm told not dry socket though. So for those of you that are worried, just plain old fashioned, you know, night post-operative nightmares, not like, you know, dry socket, which is was everyone's worst nightmare when I was growing up. Dry socket. And uh today's special, special guest from Lola's New York City, Suzanne Cups. How you doing?
+
+[1:21] I'm great. Thanks for having me. So uh before we so normally at the beginning of this program, we just, you know, kind of shoot the breeze on whatever we've cooked over the past uh week or so. What I wasn't here last week, so it's two weeks. I was in Italy.
+
+[1:33] By the way, if you can ever take a transatlantic flight with a kidney stone, highly recommend. No, it don't recommend it. It's the worst thing ever. You think you're over it, and like midway through the flight, you're like, ah, and by the way, don't ever do that when you are flying. There's a have you heard of Norse Norse Airways?
+
+[1:56] It's like spirit, but from from and they finally got permission. So like they don't you can't check in online, you don't have seats unless you pay them a lot extra. And I thought I was fine. So I got tucked into the window seat, which I normally like, but on an overnight flight, that means the two people next to me are sleeping. So if I need to get up, no love.
+
+[2:14] No love. I'm not gonna wake them up just because I'm in intense, excruciating pain. I think if you have a kidney stone, that's a pretty reasonable excuse to wake someone up. It's not their fault. Yes, but okay.
+
+[2:26] Turns out, it's nothing with anything, but turns out like they were going to Italy for like three weeks. I think they're retired. She was a doctor, I don't know what the hell he did. And they were gonna get an audience with the Pope. And she said, I will pray for you.
+
+[2:37] I'm like, thank you. All right. I mean, I'm okay now, so maybe it worked. Audience was Wednesday. So we'll see.
+
+[2:44] There you go. We'll see. Anyway, so this is where we normally uh shoot the breeze. But I would like to congratulate you first because John tells me that just today you are it was New York Times, right? New York Times.
+
+[2:56] New York Times top 100 restaurants in uh New York. That's great. Yeah, I mean, I woke up to a lot of text messages. That was a good thing. Also, it sounds like you're a smart person, you turn off your text alerts when you're asleep.
+
+[3:08] So you don't get woken up in the middle of the night. I actually I don't, I actually I don't. I just I sleep through them, but yeah, just in case. Just turn them off. You know, you need you know, you need your sleep, you know what I'm saying?
+
+[3:17] No, uh everybody I know, no one texts me overnight. Oh, because they know that you don't turn off your your stuff. Stas is like that. Nastasia, right? You keep your text on so that like you know, you can get woken up and they get angry if I text you for something stupid, right?
+
+[3:30] Yes, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Uh anyway, so like I haven't looked up the number in almost 20 years, but even back in like the early 2000s, we had like 18,000 restaurants in this city. So top 100. Like even if like me, you want to win awards but don't believe in them in general, it's still like to make it on that list is a huge kind of a thing considering how many restaurants they are.
+
+[3:55] So I mean, New York has has a restaurant everywhere you turn and something's opening every week. And to be able to stay like in the public eye for people talking about you, it's like really awesome to have a shout out from the New York Times. So yeah, we're jazzed. Yeah. Little gray lady.
+
+[4:12] Sometimes uh she makes mistakes and sometimes she doesn't. You know what I mean? You never you never know. Yeah, who like do they even who's their critic now? They are looking for someone, so it's Priya and uh Melissa Clark, yeah.
+
+[4:24] I like I like both of them. They're but why, but they don't want to do it permanently because nobody wants that job at this point. I think they're too known. Oh because no one knew who Pete Wells was? Well, he'd been doing it so long, but I think at least when he started, he was a little more under the radar than what they both are now.
+
+[4:39] I don't know. I mean he had like 2012. He had a very well-regarded column for food and wine. Does everyone forget that he was like a well-known writer? Whereas now with all the media, you know exactly what everybody looks like.
+
+[4:52] I mean, I guess, but it's been like 30 years since like, you know, disguises and whatnot, where I mean, like everyone can know who anyone is at any moment. You know what I'm saying? But yeah. I don't know. So that they're waiting to find some brand new person who's never written before.
+
+[5:08] Are they gonna do like they used to like pull from politics or something? Yeah, right. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[5:16] Think we're gonna go back to having it, you know, be about restaurants and service? I mean, one hopes. I hope so. Well, uh we were nervous last summer because that's Pete came one time, we caught him and then he announced his like leaving the post. And so we thought uh we're gonna get like lost in the shuffle.
+
+[5:36] Uh but when they announced two of the new interim ones, Priya had already been and Melissa had already been. So are they allowed to do that? Are they allowed to combine their three into three? Because you have to go three times for New York Times. Oh, Melissa, so Pete came once, Priya came once, but Melissa came like three, three times yourself.
+
+[5:54] So there you go. Yeah. I mean, I never worried about uh Pete because I knew him from before he got the job. Right so I knew he would never ever write about it. You know what I mean?
+
+[6:07] Whether he liked it or hated it, because then, you know, so someone would say either he likes the guy or he hates the guy, so he wrote, you know. Right anyway. Uh yeah, it's a funny job. I hope it goes back to being something where like someone who's not from New York can look at the reviews and know what this know what it means based on the rating without having to go in depth and be like, oh, wait, this is a white napkin place and this is a food truck. You know what I mean?
+
+[6:35] It's like it's hard. I mean it's it's hard because it's like some what I love about New York is like there are all types of restaurants. So like I can go into a little divy tiny hole in the wall and have a great meal, and I can go eat somewhere with a tasting menu and also, but the amount of effort that is put in at each restaurant is a little bit different in you know, whether it's front of house, back of house. And so it's it's a challenge to kind of compare all the restaurants with the same amount of stars. Yeah.
+
+[7:04] But yeah, unless you like, right, especially if you're gonna be all over the map with how you apply them. You know what I mean? And it's like, you know, I don't know what the young people like to do, but I like to know kind of what kind of ambiance I'm getting into before I show up. You know what I mean? Like.
+
+[7:20] I mean, look, it was one of my favorite restaurants in the city at the time. But Sambar, when it got three, like that was the beginning of I don't understand how these star systems work anymore. It was like a world class two, I think. You know what I mean? And that the food was good enough to be in like a higher star place, but it was, you know, fast and no you know what I'm saying, right?
+
+[7:41] It's not backs to your chairs and I'm not insulting the place. I'm saying like not everything, you know, like it used to mean something. Back in your day, it used to mean something. No, but you know, whatever. It doesn't matter.
+
+[7:53] There's because also there are plenty of venues for reviews that aren't the New York Times. I don't need the New York Times to like review everything on Earth. You know what I mean? Whatever. Whatever.
+
+[8:03] Anyway, I like both of those people who are doing the interim stuff. So me too. It's kind of like artificial intelligence, though. You would never, if you're in your right mind, saying anything negative about them because when they take over, if you said anything negative, you're host. This is why artificial intelligence is the best.
+
+[8:18] And when it takes over, I you know, just get me a nice pillow, I'll lay down, I'll be your lap human. You know what I mean? Yeah. Did you guys read that New York Times article yesterday? By Pete Walls, actually.
+
+[8:28] Yeah, it's interesting. Using AI to start drawing more inspiration for food and things like that. Is this a Grand Aikas article? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[8:35] Pete wrote that? No, I didn't read it. I had portions of it read to me. Yeah. And like this checks out.
+
+[8:40] By AI? No, no. I'm again too old. I need to get into it. You know what I mean?
+
+[8:45] Like I need to get into it. But I mean, me, frankly, like, I think what what he's using it for, he's just keep on keeps on asking it questions until he gets the answer he wants. So fine. You know what I mean? He's like, no, not not rhubarb.
+
+[8:57] You know, yeah, we'll talk rhubarb later. Like, not rhubarb. So it'll put something else in, right? So like any as a throw an idea against the wall and see whether it sticks thing, it's fine. I mean, he's not doing it uncurated.
+
+[9:07] Right. Right. He's not just saying, you know what? You choose, and I'll tell you what, do the hiring. And then you know, we'll see, we'll see.
+
+[9:15] You do the hiring AI, which I guess people do now. Yeah. Imagine hiring your kitchen team by AI. I would never. Yeah.
+
+[9:23] How I mean, it's just I mean, like house staff that way. It's gonna happen. I know. It's gonna happen. Hopefully, not in my lifetime.
+
+[9:30] It's gonna happen in like two years. Like, the one thing I'll say for sure. Anyone who has naysayed what's gonna happen with artificial intelligence, they're the only ones I can say for sure are wrong. Anyone who says like what is gonna happen, like could or could not be wrong. But anyone who says it's a nothing burger, yeah.
+
+[9:46] No. Yeah. No. No. Uh all right.
+
+[9:49] So now, what do we have in the last week or two weeks, as the case may be? I'll start. Something that everyone in the industry can rule or sympathize with. My walk in broke done last week. Oh, it not working.
+
+[10:03] The condenser. Oh. It's outside and it's too hot down in the basement. So it doesn't get moved around. And it was just such a vacuum down.
+
+[10:10] No, it's downstairs in the basement next to the ice machine. Oh. Next to the condenser for the walking. Yeah, of course. You could do like, you know, Moronville and install an air conditioner then to Yeah, well, yeah, I know.
+
+[10:21] And then heat the outside. So what are you gonna do? Do you have can you locate it outside behind? The company says it's probably gonna be too expensive, so we're gonna have to put on a water cooling system. Jack up our water bill.
+
+[10:30] It's gonna be great. It is, and you know what happens when the water supply gets clogged or something happens. Yeah, it's not gonna work. But they are much more efficient. Yes, I've heard that.
+
+[10:42] So I don't know what wins or loses water because I've never, you know, the only thing that most I think normal folk in New York have that's water cooled is their ice cream machines, right? Yeah. Um just because they're so compact and have such cooling capacities. I had a water cooled ice machine. That thing was sick.
+
+[10:59] I bet. That thing was awesome. Water cooled ice ice cream machine, dude. I used to have a what was it? It was an old tailor that I rolled off the street.
+
+[11:07] I found it, weighed like 1200 pounds. Only had three wheels. One of the wheels had fallen off. So yeah, yeah, you ever wheel something with three wheels down the street? It's like it's like every couple of seconds it goes on the other thing, and you're like, I'm glad it was I was a lot younger.
+
+[11:21] I was in my 20s when I did that. So yeah. And one of the cylinders, no, yeah, one of the cylinders was broken. I was able to fix one of the cylinders. It was when you could just still buy refrigeration stuff without being a refrigeration tech.
+
+[11:31] You know what I mean? And but the bottom case was also broken. So I just chilled that with like block ice. Yeah. But that thing was sick.
+
+[11:39] I've decided this is my first restaurant, Lola's, so I've decided that the the best use of my money is to go to plumbing school. Yeah. Like every week. Something, something stops working, something breaks, and the that would be the best use of my dollars. Well, let me ask you this.
+
+[11:58] How what was the state of the place? Was it restaurant already when you got there? Restaurant, yeah. Okay. But it had been about a year and a half that it was empty before we we like really moved in.
+
+[12:08] How much of their crap did you keep? Uh we we got rid of most of the junk. However, like all the equipment, all the chairs, all the decor, the walls. We ripped down the floors. It was like all fake wood and weird like panels on the wood on on the walls.
+
+[12:28] Uh the equipment was just pretty gross. But we kept the walk-in, so that was huge. We were able to use the HVAC really big. And I I was able to keep like some of the like uh like nine pans and you know, so some of that stuff, but and some metro shells. That was like kind of the big thing.
+
+[12:46] But most everything else was. Yeah, it was a lot of scrubbing. So but but you kept uh the main copper for the plumbing or no? Did you put in new stubs and stuff? Yeah.
+
+[12:55] So I mean, like, man, I've never seen someone's plumbing job that was worth spit because then the contractors do it. By the time they do the plumbing, you've already yelled at them so much that you've gone over that. Then they cut all of the corners right when they're doing the stuff that's most important, the plumbing and the electrical, right? You know, they waste all their time on the framing and stuff like that, bleed you dry of your money, and then now you have nothing left, and then the systems systems that you're gonna use every day get freaking hosed. It's a nightmare.
+
+[13:22] Yeah. So I mean, I know it's not legal, I guess, to do your own plumbing, but okay, listen. It's not really hard. Little tweak here and there, you know. You know what I mean?
+
+[13:31] It's like there are things you need to know, and if you do it wrong, you're like leaving yourself open, but like, you know, you could do plumbing. Well, like the sprayer on the dish station goes down. The there's a leaky sink. It's just every week something else. So, you know, those little minor things.
+
+[13:48] Do you know what? Like, again, sorry, environment, but like I can't wrap my head around the water saving sprayers. That like weak, weak spray you get out of those letters, it's like, yeah. It's my God. Yeah, we had another one that I replaced recently, but my dishwasher was using a fish spat to scrape everything off.
+
+[14:04] Oh geez. Gosh. It's like it's like whenever I whenever I install like a residential shower, which comes up more than you would think. Uh, that's the first thing I do is they they know that you hate it, which is why they install the restrictors as a separate item that you can just jam a screwdriver in and yank the restrictor straight out of it so that you can have a decent shower. Without a decent shower, I am not a person.
+
+[14:26] Agreed. You know what I mean? It's like uh my co-op, the one thing you got like my co-op is like super like you know, inexpensive. Like it's like the least expensive place in the lower east side, one of the least expensive places in Manhattan. We have great water pressure though.
+
+[14:38] Great, great. How's the walk? You're from uh South Carolina originally, right? Yeah. How's the water pressure down there?
+
+[14:43] Uh I mean, I think it's house by house. My parents like to save on the utilities. And so ours was not great. It would be like 10 minutes to the dot ice cold water. Wow.
+
+[14:56] You know, so and I'm undersized heater, huh? Yeah, undersized. I knew it, and yet every single day I would end up with the cold water at the end every time. That's why. That's why you have to do your actual cleaning business first, and then the drench out under the water.
+
+[15:16] You know what I mean? I'm opposite. I'll stand there for five minutes before I realize I'm in the shower. Oh gonna start. I love it.
+
+[15:21] I love it. Yeah, but like that's the to me, like that's it, that's the thing. I mean, I uh have a problem with that from an early age because my grandpa was not, I don't remember what the size of the water heater is because he would literally come into the shower and turn off the water if he thought my shower was too long. Yeah. That's awesome.
+
+[15:36] Hard well, out of the time. But yeah, hardcore, hardcore dude. Uh I don't know how the hell we got on that. All right, wait, so your walk in broke down, but you don't know how you're gonna fix it. So what do you hell you Well, it's my entire all my low boys are a mess.
+
+[15:49] It's really it's it's as horrible as well. It's not even hot yet. Yeah yeah, I know. I know. And the worst thing about this is we knew about this was a problem like eight months ago.
+
+[15:59] And the understanding of the case. No one wants to spend money. Yep. You just hope that it's gonna last longer than what you think. Yep.
+
+[15:59] And then it doesn't. I had a plumbing nightmare, actually. But one of the only pieces of professional refrigeration I have in my house broke because professional refrigeration is the worst refrigerator. Yeah, it is. Home refrigeration, you know what?
+
+[16:16] Well, who here has had their home fridge die on them? Oh Joe. Joe, you did? How old was it? Um 25 years old.
+
+[16:28] Okay. Okay, that's definitely expected. Yeah, if you if you can get 25 months out of commercial refrigeration without having to call in day and night or whichever like you know, rancid sit system you know you use to do it, you know what I mean? You're lucky. It's a nice fridge.
+
+[16:42] Yeah, but you don't really have at home, you don't have like 19-year-old, 20-year-olds like slamming the doors and leaving them open and you know, tugging on the gaskets and I I have had, but not like at the same level. But you know, I think that's just uh I think that's just one of those things that people say. I think okay, listen to this also. Why is it that home refrigerators are silent? True.
+
+[17:05] And commercial refrigerators are loud as a day is long, like they they're not made to the same high quality. They don't isolate the compressors as much, they don't dampen everything, and that rattling can't be good for the for the system in general, right? They're all installed in place and then sweated, you know, sweated together by somebody who does evacuation. Like they're not like commercial, you know, home refrigeration is made on giant factory lines that are 100% clean. The stuff is designed to like be bulletproof.
+
+[17:34] I bet you anything they could make a commercial fridge that is as good as a home fridge in terms of its longevity, right? I mean, a lot of commercial stuff doesn't break. Your oven doesn't break, does it? Yeah, yeah, it's true. When was the last time you had a non-rationale break?
+
+[17:49] Yeah. Whereas when was the last time you had a rationale that worked? You know what I mean? Like that's the. It's the most expensive thing I bought.
+
+[17:57] Yeah. Get this. If you need parts, I'll hook you up. Jeremiah and Fabian bought or got somehow used a rationale that was broken and we thought we could fix it. It takes up half the kitchen and has never been hooked up for the entire year that Contra has been running.
+
+[18:12] We have this freaking rationale in it that is literally the world's least efficient speed rack. It is the it is we use it to store because it doesn't even store full sheets. You know what I mean? It's like it's the worst. And every time I look in there, every once in a while, I'll just I'll I'll go in there, I'll just break them off on them, be like, hey, we're gonna have rationale.
+
+[18:33] How's it working? You know what I mean? I'll just like mess with them because it's just such a huge waste of space in our that tiny kitchen that they have. We we had one in Untitled, and since it was such an open kitchen, you couldn't really like roast anything really hard because it would just smell in the dining room. And the way they attached the door was backwards, and we never really got it fixed.
+
+[18:51] So it opened to Garmanget and it blocked the whole line so you couldn't walk through. So literally we used to be. That was the only thing we used it for like most of my career there. So is that untitled? That's the one was at the Whitney.
+
+[19:07] The Whitney, yeah. So yeah, you can't have smoke in that dining room. No, I can't be smoke. Like, how often do the art weasels come in and get hinky? Let's not talk about that.
+
+[19:15] Yeah. Because I remember like I I uh I've also like talked to people who worked at um a cafe two, which is like, and like there's all these like breaks in between in between where the art is and where the cooking can happen, because they're like, they're not playing. And I'll say this Museum of Food and Drink, which you know, John used to work at, you know, I you know, I'm with them. Like, we can't borrow items from people. It's a huge problem.
+
+[19:39] Food and art, man. Yeah. You think they go together. Only at Illis, where they have millions of dollars paintings on the wall and an open kitchen, which I don't know who I don't know who insures their art. Yeah.
+
+[19:50] You know what I mean? But it's like museums don't play, huh? No. You want to keep that stuff forever. Yeah.
+
+[19:57] Yeah. Well, so which way which one is untitled? Is that the one that's got its own entrance in off the stairwell? So it's not no existing, not existing anymore, but it was um it did have a separate entrance uh right when you walk up to the museum. Oh, it's the ground floor one floor.
+
+[20:12] Yeah. Right. Cause they have a ground floor or did I haven't been to Whitney a while. Ground floor restaurant, but they also had one in the middle of the building. Well, that we had on the sixth floor.
+
+[20:20] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Studio cafe. Yeah. So I ran both. Yeah.
+
+[20:23] And that one That was challenging. Is that also like kind of walled off from the art in a way that makes it easy? It's around like the corner, but it was still open, but the kitchen itself was was not an open kitchen. It was there was like an open bar area. So that was a little bit easier to close the door when needed.
+
+[20:42] But we had to the only way to get up there was through the guest elevators. So, you know, deep 600 pans of chicken and whatever on the elevator, and the the guests are smushed in there and looking, you know, it's it's it was a little challenging. That's the one with uh the weird melty face glass sculptures on the wall. What's the what's on the wall in that in that uh I don't know anyway they they would change it, so I'm not sure. Only went once or twice.
+
+[21:07] Yeah. And it's so crazy. So crazy. And like uh your fire suppression must have been all like crazy. Every like every other day during service, the alarms would go off.
+
+[21:18] Like every other day. It would just be pretty pretty tough. Yeah, on the other hand, must be nice to be around the art when you need a need to get your head straight. I guess uh we I didn't really have much time to walk around. Yeah.
+
+[21:29] Put it that way. Yeah, you wouldn't like be like, I'm out and then to walk, go see some art and be like, okay. 100% no. No. Did you get huge pops for things like the biennial or no?
+
+[21:39] Yeah. Oh, biennial was crazy. Yeah. Uh yeah. The opening was insane.
+
+[21:43] I've never, you know, New York has lines everywhere, but I've never seen lines like when the Whitney opened. I mean, thousands of people outside, no idea where they were, you know, just standing in line. And then the biennial was really big. Um, for sure. Yeah.
+
+[21:59] I mean, like a little too crazy for us. I've never okay, John, also art history guy. You ever been to a biennial where you like the work? Not usually. It's well known for that though.
+
+[22:10] Yeah. It's like the tavern on the green of art. Yeah. You go, you know what I mean? It's a thing.
+
+[22:17] I haven't been to Tavern on the Green since they reopened. I'm not insulting them in any way, shape, or form. But well known for decades as having the worst food in the nicest venue. Yeah. Right?
+
+[22:25] Yeah. Bien is kind of the same, right? Yeah, I think so. But yeah, I wonder if that's more just because like it's continuously continually blah, continuously pushing like the ultra new contemporary stuff, which like no one really has that aesthetic taste for. I mean, I've been around.
+
+[22:39] One or two of them I thought were really good, but in general, it's where you go to be like, oh my God. Yeah. Is this art? I could do that. Oh my gosh.
+
+[22:46] People still say that? Yes. Oh, geez, Louise. Is it true that the Whitney they had the one biennial uh feast where they walked the animal that they were that they were gonna butcher around the museum? Oh, that was not when I was there.
+
+[22:58] Okay. Who who uh who was that? That's something that's something that would have happened. It must have been like early 2000s. I remember there was a Whitney biennial and Jason.
+
+[23:08] Before they moved. Jason Rhodes had a big room in the biennial, and he did a sculpture. It was like all this like found stuff, and one of them was a donut machine, and he had allowed it to make like thousands of donuts, and there was a pile of donuts on the floor. And I was in, I was like, I was like, if these donuts are on the floor, I'm gonna eat them. You know, like those uh Felix, what's his name candies that you could pick up, pick up and eat.
+
+[23:29] You know what I mean? I was like, and I ate one. Man, it was the stalist donut. I don't think you were supposed to eat it. I think he might have lacquered them.
+
+[23:36] Like it was the worst donut, which is saying a lot. I've had bad donuts. There was one exhibit that they wanted us to collaborate on because we didn't really do much collaboration. We did the biennial something at in Untitled, which was kind of crazy. But the there was one in Studio Cafe up on the eighth floor that they wanted our help with.
+
+[23:54] And basically they put like these, I don't know, four-inch pedestals all around the space, and they wanted to put like fruit and vegetables on them, and they would just sit there. So they would like kind of decay over the time, and then at night we would put them away, but then they would put them back, and it it was just the you know in the restaurant? In the in the in the museum space on the sixth same floor as Studio Cafe on the sixth floor. You get fruit flies? I mean, it was just weird.
+
+[24:23] And and but they're the crossover is weird, so they didn't want us to like touch it, but we had they'd use our walk-ins. It was just a it was a I was like, who's looking at this? Like these dead vegetables. I don't I don't really understand the art there, but hey, I don't know. Me different you're like happy to help.
+
+[24:39] Happy to help. Um, all right. Oh, by the way, uh, if you're listening live on Patreon, call in your questions to 917 410 1507. That's 917 410 1507. And John, why don't you tell them how they can become a Patreon member and why they might wish to do that?
+
+[24:54] Go to patreon.com slash cooking issues. Um, there are a couple different membership levels. At each membership level, you get uh different perks. You all get access to our Discord channel with all the other listeners. Um good community of like-minded people who are questioning food and things like that.
+
+[25:09] Uh, you get discounts with people that we work with, like Matt at Kitchen Arts and Letters, and just so many other great things. So check it out. Patreon.com slash cooking issues. And uh Stas, what do you what do you got in the past uh couple of weeks? Anything good that you're allowed to talk about?
+
+[25:21] I know you have your secret sauces. Um I threw my monthly dinner party with uh Jeff Gordonera last Wednesday at a special house in the Hollywood Hills, and we had Zach Palacio and his wife Jory um preview their new menu at Leo's in Santa Fe. So it was super fun. Yeah. How how the how'd the food come out?
+
+[25:45] Were they able to cook properly at the house or was it a Cordelieu? No, they they had they brought a lot of stuff that they uh prepackaged and flew with, and then there's a bunch of Thai restaurants and um Asian restaurants. I mean not grocery stores where they got all the rest of their ingredients here. I've never been to Santa Fe. Nope.
+
+[26:08] You wait, you haven't either? No. Yeah, I'd like to go. I was almost supposed to go. Whatever.
+
+[26:13] Yeah. Uh-huh. Awesome. So I'm glad I'm glad it was a s a success. Any anyone get don't know names, but did anyone get just like off the wall plastered and like kind of like either fall asleep and or freeze in their chair or just kind of like fall backwards gently?
+
+[26:28] No, it's 23 weirdos and musicians and writers and stuff that come to this thing, and then someone performs at the end, uh, or anyone can perform at the end, which people did. And um, yeah, I'm asking you to do one, but you can't be here because you're going to some wedding. Okay, first of all, family show. Second of all, that's the only one you do them all the time. You picked the one day when you looked at my calendar and were like, oh, Dave is going to be, you know, somewhere else.
+
+[26:57] I said while you're in California swing by. And also, you know what I mean? Like, whatever, like, you know, whatever. We could just talk talk about off. I'm happy to come do one, Stas.
+
+[27:10] Happy. More than happy. Please is punch. We should do some stuff uh out in LA, you know, at some point, some point anyway, soon. Anyway.
+
+[27:19] Uh all right, uh Quinn, what do you got for me? Do you ever measure that? I know that you've been sick, but uh did you measured the butter and we never got the number before the show was over that time. Did you measure the the anti-butter or whatever you're gonna call it? Uh well, yeah, I know I I never had the the solid numbers for the water content.
+
+[27:41] Um interestingly, the the last test that I did, it was a higher fat cream. I did find a 36 uh percent. But it actually for the same time, it did separate less. Which I guess makes sense because it's higher viscosity. Um was the texture of the resultant pace the same or no?
+
+[28:13] Yeah, like it's still became you know clay like. Yeah. But uh nothing's nothing sells a spread like clay-like. Hey, how would you like bread with some clay-like cream? Doesn't sound appetizing, right?
+
+[28:28] Clay-like. Regardless of what those Spanish do with their kale and coated potatoes. Like clay-like is not like, you know. No, true. It's not a description that's.
+
+[28:40] Yeah. Doesn't wet my appetite. No, no. Clay like. Well, but I never, by the way, we've had a discussion on the air before I apologize.
+
+[28:47] I never had those clay, those kale encoded potatoes. But like just the idea that you have, you know, toothpasty clay grit in your between your teeth as you're chomping, doesn't sound like it's what I want to have happen. Did you ever have that? No. You're familiar, you know the dish I'm talking about?
+
+[29:01] No, I don't. That was uh moogeres. Moogarites, yeah. Clay potatoes that look like rocks. But I didn't have that.
+
+[29:06] How was the how was the rest of your meal? I thought it was fun. It was very uh it was polarizing. Some things like people hated and some people loved, but it was like fun. And it it it caused it like brought brought along a lot of discussion, and I thought that's that was like the fun part of it.
+
+[29:26] It was very engaging. So you want this a meal that you would like to have every once in a while. Yeah. Because it's fun. But if it was every night, you're like, uh, I'm I wasn't going there.
+
+[29:38] I I wasn't going there to like satisfy my cravings of food. Right. Uh but I was actually with a big group. We went for a cider uh cider trip uh in Spain uh years ago. Is that your favorite style of cider?
+
+[29:51] I do, like um it's not my style cider. Go ahead. We'll talk about it later. Yeah. Uh but uh yeah, so it was like a big group of people that like we'd gotten to know each other over ten days or something.
+
+[30:02] And so it was it was just like enjoyable to like kind of go back and forth on on what we were eating and and the whole experience of it. So I I liked it, but again, I wasn't paying for it. Oh, that's the best way. That's the best way. So yeah.
+
+[30:17] But it's cool. Yeah, awesome. All right. Uh sorry, Quinn. I s I didn't let you actually say anything that you had cooked.
+
+[30:22] Have you had the opportunity to cook anything over the past week or so? Yeah, actually we did. I made my uh magic uh mystery wheat into bread. I talked to you about that off air. It's pretty interesting.
+
+[30:36] So what's magic about it since uh since none of the people who you talk to you off air know what you're talking about? Yeah, it's a heritage Alberta wheat, just called Park. It was a real pain to source. Uh developed about eighty years ago. It's got this well, I have a single obscure blog post about its like supposed lineage.
+
+[31:05] Um it's got like interesting uh hard red wheats, sort of uh parentage, lineage. At some point it was also hybridized with Durham, supposedly. Hmm. Is it is it bad for bread in the way that Dorum is bad for bread? Well, okay, no offense to the people who love Durham breads, but you know, Durham's a pain in the butt.
+
+[31:33] Dorum makes very good passable, not as good as uh Sonora White, but passable tortillas. Because it's not the last thing. Pretty similar to a lot of the other you know, whole grains. It mills actually really nice. It what?
+
+[31:50] Like it goes real fine, real easy. Oh, yeah. Well, the harder something is, the finer you can mill it without without glazing your stones out. You know what I mean? So I think this might be the hardest wheat I've worked with.
+
+[32:04] Yeah. Well, have you worked with straight Durham? Uh-huh. Maybe. I must have done it.
+
+[32:14] Durham again, folks. If you're grinding wheat, just chew on some, get an idea for the different uh get it get an idea for the wheat just by chewing on it because most people aren't gonna give you numbers and they can change from year to year. Like the I mentioned this on air, but like I gotta I bought 40 pounds of uh Rouge de Bordeaux because it was such a fantastic bread wheat, and this year's crop is like soft as anything, fundamentally useless to me for bread. Great pancakes, but I can't mill it that fine because it it glazes my stones like this, you know what I mean? And so, you know, whatever.
+
+[32:48] Whatever. Uh wheat, why you I uh all before the air, Suzanne, we were saying that uh you have a cornbread thing, you're buying the Anson Mills, huh? Yeah, I really like Anson Mills. So much money. It's so much money.
+
+[32:59] But I'm from South Carolina, so there's a little tie-in there. I'm doing like some southern touches on the menu, and I just love their product. Uh it's it's so good. And for me, I can put it in small places on our menu. We're not making like breads with it.
+
+[33:15] Uh, so we're not going through a ton, but we use it in our like uh we're making like a slightly Asian inspired dumpling, but making it with an Italian dough. So we're using Eincorn um along with double zero in that. Uh we've got this really amazing. I I think it's the best cornmeal I've ever I've ever worked with, which is their like blue, uh, I think it's called blue native blue grist cornmeal. Uh it's the color is fantastic, but the flavor is is just even better.
+
+[33:44] So we do a uh we're doing it like a sweet cornbread for dessert uh with the roasted strawberry rhubarb. Uh we've got we we use their buckwheat, um their uh red fife flour. And again, like I can use it in small amounts and it makes really an impact, I think, in the taste of of what we're doing. But I I love them. What uh it's been a while since I've had one of their cornmeals.
+
+[34:07] I've had their blue, what was it called? Like I've had one of their blues. I mean, I'm sure they've had different um different types over the years. But can you like how custom can you go with them? Yeah, you can get coarse or you can we do a fine, fine grind.
+
+[34:19] Yeah, I really like corn flour. Like everyone's like, ooh, cornmeal, corn cornmeal's great. You know what I mean? Like I love cornmeal, but like especially when you're grinding your own and you can choose the exact kind of uh this one's really fluffy. It's it's nice.
+
+[34:32] So when I when I make the cornbread, it it doesn't have the same grit that some does. Yeah. And I prefer it a little smoother, but it's like the flavor's fantastic. Yeah, for those seriously, for those who have only ever used like American style corn meal for cornbread, it is entirely different animal if you're using something that's closer to corn flour. Not cornstarch.
+
+[34:54] Don't don't get flour, like milled corn, but just not coarse, right? Don't you agree? Or no? I think so. Uh, but man, they know how to charge Sonicon.
+
+[35:04] Well, so they mill it to order too. So it's just so fresh. So we keep it in the freezer or in the fridge. And I do an order from them once every three or four weeks. Um, so it's not, you know, breaking the bank, but I think it's I think in our on our menu in particular, it's like you can taste it.
+
+[35:14] Yeah, nice. If I were doing breads and you know, going through a camberro of of flour every week, I think that'd be a little different. But it's not that I don't think it's worth it. It's just the question is then you have to pass the cost on in a way that the people who are buying it understand why. Most of our most of our products made with it are mixed.
+
+[35:39] So, you know, we buy um a King Arthur double zero and then we use the ironcorn for flavor and texture and everything. Um again, I I couldn't afford to do all of the pasta dough with it, but uh it it just makes such a difference. Yeah. Um questions. I have a question from a listener, so I should probably do that first.
+
+[36:05] Yeah, right. All right. Uh Bruce J writes in uh how do you make bitter melon taste good? I have tried several times soaking various amounts with no success. I've heard of milder varieties, but never been able to find it in person.
+
+[36:16] Uh I understand that at some level is a matter of personal taste, but I haven't been able to prepare it in a way that would allow me to wrap my mind around why someone else would like it. All I get is bitterness. Uh, what are millions of Southeast Asian folks getting that I am missing? I mean, I I always stuff it with pork, and that takes care of everything. But what what's your uh what's your uh You know I ha in all of my restaurants, I've never actually worked with as a cook or anything with bitter melon.
+
+[36:39] I mean, I've I've tasted it before. Um my thing with anything that's like overly bitter is what's what it's with. Like it's that pairing. So pork, pork is a good way. Anything that has like a little balance of sweetness, uh that that's the way I go about anything that's like overly bitter.
+
+[36:56] Yeah, I mean, the only way I've ever cooked it real like, well, I made a drink out of it once. Like, you know, we clarified it and it was bitter. And then that's one of the ones that we used. Like uh, we used, I forget whether we used MSG or whether we used fish sauce. But we got I think we used MSG.
+
+[37:10] We took a new mommy pop on it and did like a, you know, uh what's that drink that the glass is named after? Martini variant with uh with bitter melon. You know what I mean? Yeah. But um, but when I've cooked it to eat it, I've only ever lopped off the ends, put it into pieces, maybe like four or six inches long, cored out the middle of it, stuffed it with pork, and then you know, cooked it off.
+
+[37:37] And then when you disc it, I mean, I guess you could blanch it first, but I don't think I ever, I don't, well, I didn't water blanch it. But when you disc it and you have the pork and then whatever else sauces you have on it, you know, you don't mind the bitterness anymore. I have to say though, uh, Bruce, that um we as a humanity are all very different in our ways that we taste bitter from person to person. And so you might be extraordinarily sensitive to whatever the bitter is in bitter melon, in which case, you know, you SOL. You know what I mean?
+
+[38:09] Like, like my wife, like she can tolerate, thankfully, for my family, she can tolerate escarole, but you know, she's not a huge fan of broccoli rob, right? Whereas I can pound an infinite quantity of both of them. So for me, it's interesting. Uh 10, 15 years ago, I couldn't eat anything but like ridiculous, any of those were just way beyond what I wanted to eat. And over the years, I don't know if I've just trained and introduced it to my palate more.
+
+[38:39] Now I love it. And I and I can't get enough of like chicories and other kind of bitter, uh bitter ingredients. But it was a little bit of like introducing it more and more, I think, to to my taste buds. Yeah, I mean it's I don't really understand it. I had a conversation with somebody once.
+
+[38:54] Maybe I'll call her again and figure out what's going on. She moved up to McGill. Anyway, there's like researchers who are working on why things that are avert aversive, like why they become things that you crave later. It's kind of a weird phenomenon, right? It's like things that like literally taste poisonous, right?
+
+[39:14] Then you end up craving them. It's odd. But I mean, I also think with something bitter, it like sometimes like starchiness. Like if I'm if I have like a really bitter radico, you know, pairing it with something like squash that has like that little bit of sweetness, but that starchiness sometimes like uh will not make it palatable, but like actually create like a really nice combination. Uh so it might be just whatever you're you know, eating the bitter melon by itself is probably never gonna do it for you.
+
+[39:42] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, yeah. Who eats it by itself? Does anyone eat it by itself? Anyone just hack up bitter melon and like make a make a rat tattoo-esque thing with bitter melon.
+
+[39:50] I don't I've never seen that. I'm sure somebody does it, because it exists. You know what I mean? Yeah. Someone has tried it.
+
+[39:56] Someone who can't taste the bitterness at all has ratatouille fair. I don't make ratatouille at all. It's not my thing, not my movie. Nine, it's fine. Are you a ratatouille fan?
+
+[40:08] No. Yeah, I'm yeah. Either way. Yeah, right. If someone serves it to you, you're not gonna spit at them and throw the plate on the ground.
+
+[40:16] But you're not like, oh yeah. Right? It it it wouldn't be in the top, you know, 100 dishes for sure. No, no. Wouldn't make it on the list with your restaurant as the top 100 things.
+
+[40:27] I mean, I guess it's a good name for a rat in a movie. It's great. It's a great name for the movie. Yeah. I prefer the movie to the r the ri is named Remy.
+
+[40:36] No, it's so stupid. Why not name the anyway? Like the the thing that in my family people watch, they we've never no one's ever watched all the way through. Is there's a Brazilian animation company that does knockoffs called uh mockbusters, right? Like blockbusters, but mockbusters, where they just rip off ideas.
+
+[40:55] And the one for rat tattoo is called Rataton. Ratatong. And it's Chef Marcel Toying, who's a rat. And it's the worst animation. It's just the worst.
+
+[41:06] It's like just watch like five seconds of it to see how bad an animated movie can be. So anytime like someone says rat tattoo the dish in my head, all I can think of is Chef Marcel Toying. Chef Marcel Toy. World's greatest chef. World's greatest rat chef anyway.
+
+[41:20] Uh all right. So before we get into what you are doing now, uh, you came up with some fantastic people that that we know. You've cooked it like some of the like with some Anita Lowe. For how long were you at Anissa? Uh my first restaurant, six years.
+
+[41:34] Great place. Who who's a line cook for six years? No, so you say you must have liked it, right? Or yeah, or you can't. She taught me everything.
+
+[41:42] I mean, she I didn't know how to cook, really. I mean, I went I went to culinary school for a minute, but she taught me how to cook everything. Well, I read somewhere on one of your profile thing of Majigs that you you are not one of those people who are like, yeah, I've been cooking forever. Like No, I mean, now it's been 20 years, but that's just because I've been in in the business for that long. But I grew up not interested in being in the kitchen, helping the kitchen, not interested in food at all.
+
+[42:04] Huh. Really not until a little bit into college, but really uh when I moved to New York and I mean, honestly, when I went to culinary school is when I kind of got interested. So was it when was it because you moved to New York and it was like so the food was so different from South Carolina that you missed stuff and had to cook stuff? Or like what happened? Uh there was a lot of steps that that kind of contributed to this going in this direction.
+
+[42:32] But um mostly, yes, I I like wouldn't eat fish. I was very, you know, boring in my kind of what I had for dinner. And when I came to New York, you know, my friend said, let's go to X restaurant, or let's get sushi, or you know, and so I started being introduced to things that sushi in South Carolina, at least where I'm from, is not like it's not like the quality of the fish that I'm looking for. Where are you from? Are you coastal or what?
+
+[42:58] No, I'm on I'm on the Georgia border, Aiken. Yeah. So uh right by the masters, if anybody's a golf fan, a lot of golf. Is that the green jacket one? Yeah.
+
+[43:07] All right. It is. I only know it from that uh Adam Sandler movie. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[43:12] Um, but you know, the quality of the the sushi and Aiken is not. Doesn't sound like that's what they're doing. How about the quality of the boiled peanuts? Great, wonderful. Um that's because people up here can't wrap their head around boiled peanuts.
+
+[43:24] Yeah. I think they're great. I I like them now. I didn't like him as a kid either. Really?
+
+[43:27] But no. I didn't like any, I didn't like much of anything. Uh but I'm yeah, I moved here, so I started being introduced to different types of foods. There was that. And then I started working in hospitality.
+
+[43:37] I didn't know what I wanted to do after college. So I ended up through a temp agency being placed at the Walder Festoria and and human resource. You're a math major, right? So how do you end up in a temping out for what kind of math were you were you? Well, I was thinking about being a math teacher, but I knew I didn't want to do that.
+
+[43:54] And I felt like you don't want a teacher that doesn't really want to be there, uh, especially with math. So no, you do not. Yeah. And so I was never adventurous, never really thought about moving to New York. And just my brother was in Philly, and we came here for a day.
+
+[44:11] I had like an acquaintance from college who was moving up to Columbia, and just got it in my head, like, oh, let me try something new. Uh, which again was not adventurous. My parents were like, what are you talking about? Um, and so and I and it was the year after 9-11. So everybody was kind of on edge for sure.
+
+[44:27] Yeah, we were still, it took us a while to get back firing on all cylinders after that. So yeah, I moved up here, no job, no money, all the things. And uh ended up at the Waldorf and NHR, and my boss was just like awesome, like this really kind of feisty, strong, great leader from Boston. And I never even thought of like hospitality as a career. You know, in the South, everybody's nice.
+
+[44:53] Like you go to their house, they're feeding you, they're like giving you everything, and it was just like that was the way of life. I never really thought about it as a career. Um, and I know hospitality is more than that, but it was just something that I I didn't know existed. So immediately I liked that idea of hospitality. Uh, but man, I hated the paperwork as a child.
+
+[45:13] It was like 1600 employees. Yeah. So I was just like pushing paperwork. Is that is that a union house or no? It is, yeah.
+
+[45:19] So we we weren't union and the back offices, but yeah, the um all the the cooks and the the housekeepers. And I really had no uh, you know, I wasn't in the kitchens or anything like that. But after about a year, they needed help in the steakhouse, the old bull and bear steakhouse. And so because I wasn't union, I couldn't like be a line level, but I was like an assistant manager. So I would go down there a couple nights a week after my shift in HR, and I would just like help manage.
+
+[45:47] I I don't even really know what I did, but I loved it. And I was like, oh, maybe I'll be a restaurant manager. And so that kind of was like the seed was was formed there. Uh but then one of my co-workers, she went to ICE, the Institute of Culinary Education for these recreational baking classes. And she just started bringing in like cakes and cookies every day.
+
+[46:08] It's like cooking school. That like there's such a thing, you know, no idea. Um, and at that point I was like experimenting at home. And I'm I'm talking like this quick, like George Foreman girl. Like that's how I learned that's how I learned to cook, especially in college.
+
+[46:24] Rest in peace, George Foreman. Yeah. And just I just ended up on a whim, like going to to ICE to check out the school, and I was so impressed. I had never seen a professional kitchen. And just those like little things kept popping in my head.
+
+[46:36] And uh after two years at the Waldorf, I I went to culinary school. At ICE or ICE. Yeah, no, what what era was that? What years were that? Uh I went in 2005.
+
+[46:45] Yeah, so that's right. That's right when I was at FCI. So you were my bitter enemy. Yeah. Or bitter, bitter, bitter enemy.
+
+[46:52] I just didn't know because I didn't know. We didn't know each other, but well, but I didn't know anything about I didn't know anything about cooking. I didn't know I didn't know who Daniel Balud was. I didn't know I didn't know anything. You know, because I was new.
+
+[47:01] You guys had really yeah, you guys had a lot of good teachers there. It's a great, it's a good place. It's just like wasn't allowed. Like when I left the FCI, when Nastasi and I left the FCI, they're like, you go work. I I kept on a deal with them that I would still like, you know, consult with them.
+
+[47:14] And they were like, you can work anywhere but ice. And I was like, all right, all right, Dorothy. You know what I mean? But uh remember that, Stas. Yep.
+
+[47:24] Yeah. Anyway, now ICE won. They survived. We did not. They bought our name and then they dunked on us.
+
+[47:32] Did you hear about that? No. They threw a uh whatever his name, Smiley or whatever, through a party and uh like an SCI, like a celebrate the SCI party, invited back the living deans at the time. One of one of them has passed since then. Uh Andre Soltner.
+
+[47:47] Yeah. And um, yeah, basically they basically just dunked on us to be like, you're no longer here, we are. Ah, boom. Well, it wasn't ostensibly what it was about, but we were all like, hmm. And they upgraded to such a beautiful like but my the where I went was not quite as nice.
+
+[48:03] Oh, you were on the interview. I was on 23rd. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I never visited, I literally, that's not true. I went to uh an event there once when um what's her name, the famous author, uh Karen Hess, right?
+
+[48:14] Uh Taste of America, is that her? Yeah. She I I saw her talk there once, but then yeah, I was never allowed to go there. So I never I never went there. I've been to the new one a bunch because now they have a bunch of our old teachers who are there, like Jurgen's there, Ervade, Mali Vere's there, a lot of good people there.
+
+[48:29] Anyway, uh okay, okay. Uh so then first thing after that is Anissa. Yeah, I mean, I literally didn't I didn't know where to go, and one of the girls in my class was like, Oh, Anisa is hiring. Okay, I'm gonna go. So I went, I didn't know who Anita was.
+
+[48:45] Uh went for a trail. She liked me, she hired me on the spot. She says that she's never hired anybody else on the spot. I don't know. She's she's think she's think she's blowing sunshine.
+
+[48:56] I don't know, but uh maybe at that time. I mean, she's not one to blow like for those who don't know her, she's not the kind of person who would sit there and blow sunshine in your rear if she didn't mean it. Yeah, no, she was she was grammy. She taught me everything. And in the the craziest thing was like, I didn't go there because she was a female chef.
+
+[49:13] I had no idea that it was uncommon. I just literally went because she was the only restaurant that I knew that was hiring, and it was the only trail I went on, and she hired me on the spot and and I worked, yeah, six years for her. Um but but it was a great restaurant. It it was perfect for me, having no experience, no understanding of the industry. It was a small environment where you know I felt like I was it wasn't like babied by any means.
+
+[49:43] It was, it was hard. It was it was hard work. Um, but it you know, it was contained, which which I think was a good first restaurant for me. Right. And then uh and then you went to like to two kind of hospitality monsters, right?
+
+[49:56] We worked with Michael Anthony and then Danny Meyer. Well, I went to Graham C for with both of them. And actually I had done my externship before Anissa at Gramercy when Tom Calicchio was still there. Johnny Schaefer was the chef, and I was just in the basement, like peeling mushrooms, you know, cleaning doing cabbage, that kind of thing. And you know, I did my three months in the basement and I shook the chef's hand and I said, Thank you.
+
+[50:17] I didn't even know to ask for a job. Um, so I went back to Gramercy after being at Anissa for so long. Um, and Mike was there at that point. And uh I thought, you know, I'll cook for another year, um, and then I'll do whatever. Cause I wasn't on the path of I want to be a sous chef, I want to be a chef.
+
+[50:35] Never was on that path. I just really loved the the task of cooking. I liked the the the activity in the kitchen, like the com the competition. Uh you know, work went by so fast, and yeah, it was stressful, but it was like you had to be set by five, and then that was it. It wasn't like you carried the work to the next day so much.
+
+[50:55] Um, and when when I went to Graham Mercy, then I got really got hooked. Yeah. So Mike Anthony, everyone, for those of you that don't know in New York, uh, he's like he is the Tom Hanks of chefs in New York, in that, like, you know, he's a handsome dude and everybody loves this guy, nicest guy. So in secret, does he kick puppies? Tell me, does he?
+
+[51:17] I I signed a contract with He has to kick puppies. Same with Tom Hanks. He's just uh, you know, he's like always been an even kill guy, and he um is passionate. This is how I learned how to talk about food. Like Anita taught me how to cook and taught me like a lot of the passion behind cooking, and Mike just like won me over with his like stories of food and his reasons for doing things.
+
+[51:43] And not that Anita didn't have those, but like I just heard Mike over and over talk about the importance of things like local vegetables and sourcing and um how you treat certain things, and like that's really really what got me and like what connected the next part, which was like the the ingredients, the creativity, all that kind of came for me at Gramercy. Yeah. And so now we'll skip over the pandemic situation. Uh but now you have your own place finally, Lola's, and you're within spinning, well, you're within basically 10, 10 minutes of the of uh of the market, the green market, right? Uh right, because you're on 20th, 28th, so yeah, 11, 12 minutes.
+
+[52:23] I mean, we take four times a week, we take a cart down there, two, two on Fridays, load it up and walk it back to the restaurants. That's pretty ideal. So, what are your favorites there? The the farmers or the uh I've got you don't want to no, no, no. I I love we buy from a lot of folks at the market, but Camposso, who's in Pennsylvania, Norwich, uh we we buy a lot from like Willow Wisp from Lonnie's um I mean there there's there's many more for sure uh but we definitely we definitely have ones that we you know have we're we're loyal to but we just have really good relationships with the farmers and um they care about what they're growing they grow delicious vegetables and um it's really what gets me excited about um you know changing menu and and highlighting what they're doing yeah what's looking good this year uh okay this I mean right now is just like crazy crazy good so strawberries just came out sugar snap peas tell you what though got ruined from strawberries Nastasia had us go to freaking Harry's berry fill in the height of strawberry season now I'm like tri star yeah but like what are you gonna pay $19 for I saw $19 for court last week no no no it's it's live in LA is the answer.
+
+[53:35] Okay like and then you ride stars they're still like $20 for us though. Really? It's crazy. Yeah but you but you for $20 for you and all the fancy ones are right there and you can pick your pint yeah no no I went to the market last week and from like three different vendors I bought strawberries cut them in half and they're not white on they are red on the inside. Listen I'm not that's a good strawberry tri stars not even just try stars there's other all right listen yes in the power ranking like yes all of the local ones here are above Driscoll no argument but I mean in terms of like God's strawberry.
+
+[54:17] Yeah. They're good. They're good. They're good. I mean, like we get really good uh concords later.
+
+[54:22] Like when it's cold weather. Great concords. Yeah, obviously tomatoes. I've talked about it. I mean, I'm into like right now is like my like the start of my favorite season.
+
+[54:31] Like we just got the cone CaraFlex cabbage, which is mine favorite. Oh, yeah, talking about that. I've never worked with that. Oh, it's it's amazing. It's it's beyond any other cabbage.
+
+[54:39] And I like cabbage, but it's uh yeah, it's cone shaped. Um the head is just perfect where the the leaves have enough texture, it's like thick enough um to cook to like do whatever you want. Braise, steam, roast. Um, but it's not too tight of a head. So there's room between the leaves.
+
+[54:59] So when you cook it, it just uh like it cooks evenly. It's it's it's delicious. My my favorite is I like will cut it, steam it, just par steam it, and then cool it down and then we'll char it. So chart on a grill, chard on a plancha, chard in uh in pizza oven. How big are they?
+
+[55:19] Um yeah, like eight inches. And there is it'd they get bigger, it depends on the is their taste closer to like like a regular like a European or closer to a Napa? Like where are they tasting? Uh like in order to like I think of like the Napa not Napa. It's not papery like that.
+
+[55:38] And and the flavor is just the sweetness of some of the it's really sweet. Oh yeah, so it's like Europe plus plus. Yeah. It it is the best cabbage. Have you fermented them?
+
+[55:47] Are they good fermented? Uh I don't ferment them because they're like it's like yeah, too expensive, and they're just so great on their own. Like I like to highlight them in a wedge so you can kind of see the it's not even about the shape, it's uh just about like the texture of the leaves is so good that for me that would be kind of a waste. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[56:03] I'm just curious because uh I did a side by side of Napa versus regular like green head European cabbage, which I don't know the variety in because I'm a dunce. Uh and uh I was shocked how different they tasted. Not when no s just salt, you know what I mean? Like how different the cabbages were. I'm curious of what if it is extra sweet, what the because I think the main difference aside from the texture, the papery texture between the Napas and the European, I think European's higher in sugar.
+
+[56:29] I'm sure this is a little bit on that end. Um but they are they are fantastic. Like definitely. How much they cost? A lot.
+
+[56:37] I mean, not for cabbage. They in other words, they cost a lot for cabbage, but not in the overall thing. No, it's so cabbage. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, they're not, they're not charging.
+
+[56:44] Uh I mean, we buy wholesale generally, so it's a little hard to tell. All right. Five dollars a pound, somewhere in there. Uh, okay. So let's talk about some stuff.
+
+[56:52] Pimento cheese. Yeah. So tell pe for those who don't have never been like, you know, whatever, to the south, your first of all, your pimento cheese, not traditional. Well, talk about your pimento cheese versus traditional. Okay, mine's better.
+
+[57:03] Okay, okay. But it's like ricotta-based, not right. So generally in the south, uh, and I grew up in the south, but not really southern. My dad's Filipino, my mom's from central Pennsylvania. Uh, we didn't have any family down there.
+
+[57:17] Yeah. We didn't have any family down there. So now they're still there, you know, however many years later, four, you know, 30 something years later. So they're more southern than I ever was. But pimento cheese is usually usually like mayo based, cream cheese based, or maybe both.
+
+[57:34] And I love mayo and I love cream cheese, but like the the the last thing I want to eat at the beginning of my meal is like a big bowl of mayonnaise to like start it off. I mean, where does that like too? I like it throughout the meal, like dipping aioli here, you know. But uh what I was thinking about, and I don't even know where this came from, but uh one one night, this is when I was back at Entitled, I was making a pimento cheese, and I said, like, let me try to use ricotta. So I whipped ricotta.
+
+[57:59] And then I made the made the pimento, like the cheddar cheese and stuff after that. But you don't use regular pimento style peppers like from preparation. No, I use paquillo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I used big.
+
+[58:15] And then I I'll use like uh like local peppers and then like an ahi dulce or like a a really good dried pepper in there. Um and we use Jasper Hell cheese, which is also good. Fancy, fancy, very nice. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I definitely want to try that out.
+
+[58:30] Now just talk chicken. We still have a couple minutes left. Talk chicken. Tell me your fried chicken. Uh it's marinated kind of like Filipino Filipino inspired.
+
+[58:38] So it's like adobo. It's got uh a gluten-free soy sauce, garlic, bay leaf, uh black pepper corn, so marinated overnight, chicken, uh, sorry, chicken thighs with the skin on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So cut into strips, which is the best. And then very, very light battery corn starch, rice flour.
+
+[58:54] Okay. And uh so it eats in between like uh like Japanese Korean like a single fry or a double? Double. Double fry. Yeah, but very thin, very thin.
+
+[59:04] Coat in between fries or coat once, fried twice. Coat once, fried twice. And then you serve it with the with the vinegar shaker. We do it, we do a f uh fermented fresno hot honey. So local honey, fermented fresno's very simple, like literally three, four ingredients in that.
+
+[59:18] And then uh we do this coconut vinegar, which is like a Filipino inspired. Uh we we uh like kind of steep some ahi dulce, dried peppers and garlic and and black pepper in it. It's it's great. It'll probably be on the menu forever. Yeah, well, uh well, I've looked on the internet apparently.
+
+[59:36] Yeah, people aren't gonna let you get rid of it. It's kind of a pain in the butt, right? When you can't get rid of it, it. It's not my it's not my thing, but people love it, so I'm I'm excited to serve it. Also, I saw you do you do like your naan in like a in like a wood fired oven in a flat situation.
+
+[59:47] Not wood, but we've we'd have a pizza oven. Right. It looks like one of those. It's a masonry oven. Yeah, it's a masonry.
+
+[59:53] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know you have New York City pain in the butt. But like, do you think that like what's it like cooking? I've only ever cooked naan in like a tandoor. Is it very similar when it's on a flat surface?
+
+[1:00:01] Yeah, it's pretty similar, right? I mean it looks the same. It bubbles up the same. Yeah, it bubbles up. You just gotta get that temperature right.
+
+[1:00:06] And um, yeah, we make it every day. I was making it this morning before I came. Right, just not burning your hand off as uh it's easy. It's the ovens, yeah. All right, what else?
+
+[1:00:14] What else do you want to h highlight? What else you wanna highlight? I mean on the way out of here. We we've just got a rotating menu. So it's like delicious, familiar things, but the flavors come from both uh Asia and from the South, so it's not fully traditional.
+
+[1:00:28] Um but I want it to be things that people walk in and say, like, I kind of know what this is, but oh wow, this is a little different version than than I've seen before. Yeah, what do you add to your buttermilk to whip it for your uh sweet blue cornbread situation? Uh no, it's the oh uh heavy cream. Oh, so it's like heavy cream with a little tap and with a little buttermilk. Yeah, have butter milk at the end.
+
+[1:00:45] Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's nice and tangy. Well, anyway, I can't wait to go Lola's NYC on 28th Street off of Fifth Avenue. Fi between Fifth and Broadway. Fifth and Broadway.
+
+[1:00:54] Suzanne Cups, thank you so much for coming on. Come on anytime, cooking issues. Thank you.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cookie Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cookie Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City, News Stand Studios. Joined as usual with John, how you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yeah?
+
+[0:21] Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels behind me. How you doing? I'm doing good too. Good to see you. Good to see you.
+
+[0:26] Good to see you. We do not have Quinn in the upper left. I'm sorry to say he's not feeling well. We wish him uh, you know, feel better and be back next week. But we do have back from his teeth rotting out, my man Jackie Molecules in LA.
+
+[0:37] How you doing? Doing all right? I'm good. I'm good. The choppers are working.
+
+[0:43] The ones you have left? Yes. Nice, nice. Yes. And uh no no uh no dry socket, but it was like a something crazy infection.
+
+[0:52] So I've been miserable. But did you put clove oil on it? Did uh what's his name come back from the dead and put clove oil on it from Marathon Man? Great movie. Anyway, no one's seen it anymore.
+
+[1:01] People need to go see the Marathon Man. You know what I'm saying? And of course, certainly not least, uh Nastasi the Hammer Lopez, how you doing? Good. Good.
+
+[1:12] And that's just our normal crew, but I'm excited to see I'm sad to say that Chef Alex Kemp could not come on today. We're gonna have him back at some point. From uh my my how do you can you do a Kebikois accent, John? No. Come on, man.
+
+[1:26] Do it do it keep qua. Do we do we do eat qua do we come on? Lu. It's I'm Lu? Yeah, I don't know.
+
+[1:33] It's I think the same for that. How many people, how many people you think go to the restaurant? Have you been to that restaurant, my loop? My loop. Yeah, oh my god.
+
+[1:40] Like Fruit Loops. Anyway, so it's unfortunate that we don't have. Oh my god, Fruit Loo. Imagine if the next restaurant was Fruit Loo, like a juice shop called Fruit Loo. Oh man.
+
+[1:52] Anyway, uh It'd be great. Because it no one would say it right. No one. Fruitloop. Anyway.
+
+[1:58] But uh as like it's old times, we have like former boondoggler in chief for the Booker and Dax Corporation when she lived in New York City. Oftentimes cooking issues guest back in the day, both on the Voldemort Network and when we were, you know, in that little studio on the uh on the other street here with Newstand, the palacinator herself, Rebecca Balcaves. How you doing? I'm good. How are you?
+
+[2:25] Yeah. Everything good? Yeah. Yeah. Excited to be here.
+
+[2:28] So instead of what we were going to talk about today, which is, you know, opening like, you know, a French, you know, a Quebecois French American restaurant in Philadelphia, we're gonna talk about restaurant PR and some technical cooking crap. Okay. Great. You're used to hearing that garbage. Yeah, all two now.
+
+[2:44] Yeah. Yeah. Strong. It's strong. Uh in the meantime, uh, if you're listening on Patreon, you can call in your questions to 917-4101507.
+
+[2:55] That's 917-410-1507. And John, why don't you tell them how they might do such a thing? Go to patreon.com slash cooking issues. Uh there you can check out our different membership levels. Uh you get perks at every membership level, including access to our Discord discounts for some of the great partners that we work with, like Kitchen Arts and Letters, Glassfin, uh, Grovenvine Olive Oil, and a plenty more.
+
+[3:16] We gotta get Captain Oily back on. Yeah, we should. The Coleman. Yeah. No relation to the stoves, the camping equipment.
+
+[3:23] Yep. Just oil. And base. His band is called I Believe Human Growth Hormone. It is, yes.
+
+[3:29] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But uh yes, I wish you get them back on. But um do people still take human growth hormone?
+
+[3:35] Like just to like jack themselves up? Probably. Is that a thing? Well, there's a whole Olympics now where you're encouraged to take a bunch of supplements when wait what alternative Olympics with that? Yeah, well where it's like you're encouraged to juice up to try and break whatever world record, but it's not gonna count because you're juiced up.
+
+[3:53] This is a Saturday live skit. Have you seen No, this is real. Have you seen the Saturday Live Skid from the 80s? I have not. It's the I believe it's I forget.
+
+[4:02] I think it's Kevin Nealon. It's like it's called the All Drug Olympics. And they're they're announcing the all drug Olympics. And I think it's Kevin Nealon in in a in a fake like giant muscle thing, and he's reaching down to lift up, I don't know, like to clean, clean whatever they call it, clean and jerk like uh I don't know, like 3,000 pounds or something like that. And he goes, and he just rips his arms off.
+
+[4:25] And then like the blood starts shooting out of his shoulders. It's a really it's a good skin. At least it was back in the day. Yeah. I forget who the announced was.
+
+[4:34] Oh, he was probably involved. I think it was Phil Hartman. Oh, he was the one who ripped his arms off. All-time classic. By the way, you know Phil Hartman.
+
+[4:41] Oh, speaking of people who uh are gone, sadly, Sly Stone, sad to say Sly Stone's gone. Music extremely important to me growing up. Sly Stone. Um, you know, look, he lived to be 80 something, and we you know, with his kind of rough living, that's kind of that's a miracle, but you know, still sad. Beyond 27.
+
+[5:00] That's how I felt too. Yeah. I mean, like Sly Stone, I he's you know, look, of like the like the major people who I think change music like a huge amount. He's the one that I think the recent generation maybe doesn't know as well, or he didn't get as much play later on. But man, like that's one of those bands.
+
+[5:18] Imagine if you could be on stage. What? What did you say, Jack? I just wanted to share one very quick tidb. I wanted to share one quick thing about Sly Stone.
+
+[5:28] Um he was so doped up during the um there's a riot going on recordings that he couldn't get out of bed, right? And he because he was doing junk, and that helped usher in some new wireless microphone technology so we can just play there strongly. I like uh the the sound engineer's perspective. Yeah, strong. Man, that's so talented.
+
+[5:52] Could you imagine having that those musicians behind you playing? Can you imagine that? Crazy. And just in time for him to, you know, he just had that beautiful documentary come out. Something that's uh Sly Lives.
+
+[6:04] Sly lives. Oh, that's unfortunate. Sly lives. Yeah, exactly. Well, I mean, now I mean he lives in the he live music lives on, music lives on.
+
+[6:12] But man, I remember buying the album Stand. What a crazy album that is. You know what's weird? So I believe it's Future and Cher did a cover of Everyday People, and it reminded me of how goofy Sly Stone's lyrics were separated from the amazing music. Because Cher obviously, no slouch in singing, but like the music that was playing in the background, I'm like, what the hell?
+
+[6:37] You know what I mean? Without the horn section and the dun dun dun dun. Anyway, whatever. Sly Stone. You know, I have a drink at the bar named after him.
+
+[6:45] I had it last night. Yeah, in uh in in memorandum. Yeah, actually, yeah. Nice. How was it?
+
+[6:50] Very tasty. Good. It's good you put the separately prior. I don't know if it's in his past. It was like opening.
+
+[6:56] It was like it's still there from our opening money. You were taking advantage for our marketing. No, but now I will. Okay. I'm just kidding, I won't I I won't.
+
+[7:03] Should won't. Uh, I wonder whether more people will order it though. Gotta watch the numbers. Do I have to change the name so it doesn't look like I'm like cheesing off? No, just add in parentheses underneath.
+
+[7:14] This was already on the menu. I see. Okay. Smart. Uh a little more bookkeeping.
+
+[7:14] Uh we have okay, John. Peter Kim, and maybe Nastasia knows how to get on it. I think you can still see it. There's a couple more days this week. He's doing an immersive table.
+
+[7:30] Infinite Table immersive experience brought to you by Peter Kim, winner of the uh winner of the British ski jumping team guest Olympics. In other words, like he is to being a house guest like the British artist ski jumping, i.e. not good. But we're gonna have him on the we're gonna have him on the air. Right?
+
+[7:49] We're gonna have him on the air, and he's gonna talk about it because I think he's gonna run it again and then maybe do others in the series. So uh he wanted to know who to set it up with, and I was like, I don't know, John. Yeah, I don't know. Also, emerging cookbook author. He's coming out with his uh Raman cookbook.
+
+[8:02] Ramian. Ramion? Yes. Yeah, come on, please, man. Sorry.
+
+[8:06] Please, man. Not everyone's Japanese, dude. Come on. Yeah, no, I gotta get better. Thanks for getting on.
+
+[8:13] I appreciate it. Wait, wait, wait, wait. It's called Romulin. No, wish that'll be that'll be like yeah, that wish Romulan. Like that would sound like a Star Trek kind of.
+
+[8:23] Uh and I well, w who's our next uh chef that we have on? We have a we have a bunch of people lined up. Sam. Sam, you from uh Goldenhof. Golden Hoff, yeah.
+
+[8:32] Across the street. Very interesting story. For those of you that don't know, first of all, uh his place down downtown uh has the world's largest fluffy pancake. So he takes an omelet pan, right? And then he bakes a quote unquote pancake that is like the size of the omelette that literally domes over the omelet pan.
+
+[8:52] So he cooks it first on the stove and then it goes in the sally. So I'm gonna ask him the recipe, and he's gonna freaking tell us on air. He's gonna tell us on air, or I'll stab him. No, I'm kidding. But then like it's like you order it and you're like, I'll go finish it, and then you're like, oh my God.
+
+[9:06] Because it's got, I think it's like got honey and butter and all this other stuff. Very good. But the interesting one of the one of the reasons I really wanted to have him on the show is he opened a restaurant in the exact same location that his parents had a restaurant when he was growing up. And for a while it wasn't a restaurant. So it wasn't like it was passed down to him.
+
+[9:25] He got the lease again on his like familial restaurant, and it's right across the street from the studio. So that should be exciting uh to have him on. And what else do we have? Doing Tuesday lunch? I'm kidding.
+
+[9:37] Maybe he'll bring some stuff in. His kitchen's across the street. That would be great. Yeah. What else we got, John?
+
+[9:42] Anything else uh we got coming up in the in the future future? I'm blanking. I have an idea. You ready for it? Because like we had this conversation with uh Suzanne Cups when she left the studio.
+
+[9:53] We always have these fun conversations whenever we leave the studio, right? And I think Stas, you'll actually like this one, believe it or not. Is we got into talking about like weird things that we don't like. You know what I mean? Like foods that we don't like.
+
+[10:09] And I'm not gonna call her out because I think we have to do it in person. But whenever we have chefs on, I want to ask them random foods that normal, not normal, but that a lot of people like, but that they don't like. You know what I mean? And then like talk about like, does that make them a bad cook? No, I'm kidding.
+
+[10:27] But like how do they deal with their shortcomings? Yeah, how do you deal with your shortcoming? I'm gonna say, like, Suzanne's was a big was a big weird window where both John and I were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you don't like that? Yeah, she's like, nope, never put that on the menu. Right.
+
+[10:41] And I'm not gonna call her out. She'll have to come back for us to talk about it. But I think it might be a fun little thing to always ask people, what do you hate that you shouldn't? Yeah. And in my house, theoretically, when we were raising kids, we're like, we're gonna let them have one thing that they really want to.
+
+[10:55] Yeah, right. Booker is the opposite. There's one thing he does eat, just fish. Just salmon. Salmon, yep.
+
+[11:03] And can't tuna. So two things, and this weird. Are you guys familiar with the quote unquote Italian not quote unquote the Italian, American Italian bakeries version of the strawberry shortcake? I'm putting scare quotes around it, because it's not like a traditional southern strawberry shortcake. It is white cake, white icing.
+
+[11:24] Oh, yeah. Strawberry goop, a couple of Driscoll strawberries around the top, dipped in strawberry glaze with a light, flavorless, whipped creamy icing, right? Not whipped cream, but like like lard and whipped cream. Whatever. Anyway, you know what I'm talking about?
+
+[11:42] Like, this is his favorite cake, like bar none. And he will go to, he has taken the subway to infinity places in all five boroughs, bought said cake, brings it home, puts it in the middle of our lazy Susan, removes everything, takes a picture of it, and then eats it and then rates it. He's done some places, like his favorite place, which he thinks charges too much, but he loves a Betty Bakery or like Lagouli's or all these other weird little bakeries. He will take like five, six, he'll buy five or six whole cakes, eat them himself. Because Jen and I are like, we don't like this cake.
+
+[12:20] This is not our style of cake. It's nobody's style of cake, but Booker's. Anyway, he'll eat the whole damn thing, and then if he chooses only the best photo and then erases the rest. So he has hundreds and hundreds of cakes, but he only has his favorite photo from each bakery, and he has them all rated on various things. Which one's the best bar none?
+
+[12:39] Which one's the best value? Yeah, yeah. Why is that not a segment as well? I mean, I don't think he would want to come on and because like if first of all, as soon as I did the intro, he'd be like, shut up, dad. You know what I mean?
+
+[12:52] Yeah. He's like, uh cool. Well, like, you know, like you know how every once in a while when you're just like sitting around, you'll start doing stupid dances. He's like, Dad, quit it. I'm like, you know, can I just be me?
+
+[13:02] It's like, not if that's being you. It's the universal uh parental experience, I'm assuming. I know. Uh all right. So uh what have you guys done this week in food in the food world?
+
+[13:17] Anyone? Anyone got some food going on? Anyone do any food? Any cooking? My walk-in quote came in, so that's gonna get fixed.
+
+[13:26] Oh my god. Um, so that's an interesting thing. So what are you doing in the meantime? Do you have enough low boys? Did you go to PC Richards and buy a fridge?
+
+[13:33] I have enough low boys to keep most things, but like sauce work and braises are just things that I like stocks and things I can't really do because I don't have a way to keep it choled. You're kicking it, kicking it old school, just keeping it on the back burner, bubble. No, not even bubble adapt. Um, but yeah, it's really it's a constant annoyance every single day to rearrange every low boy, the two little boys in one kind of like tall region. Um, and yeah, just juggle everything there, putting a case of eggs in hotel pans to stack on top of the cheeses.
+
+[14:06] I mean, theoretically, you could leave the eggs out for a little bit. Yeah. I mean theoretically, but I don't know. We're also like waiting for DOH to come by. It's just oh, that's fun.
+
+[14:16] Well, at least your walk in will be in spec when they come. Yeah. No. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely.
+
+[14:21] You will have already poisoned everyone. Okay. Yeah, exactly. Uh Did you hear though? Do you guys hear that uh apparently they're gonna start giving notice as to when they're gonna do inspections?
+
+[14:30] That's ridiculous. Isn't it? They're gonna send a notice out like six months ahead of time, five or six months ahead of time, and then one like three or four weeks before, and then there's like a six-week window when they can come in, I think. Hey guys. What is the logic for that?
+
+[14:43] Isn't it? They're just short staffed? Sick of seeing dirty dishes in the hand wash sink? What? You know, I don't know.
+
+[14:49] Like, you know, it's like at least try to impress us. Uh I don't know. That's the craziest thing I've heard of. I mean, like, love them or hate 'em. I mean, how's that helpful for uh food safety?
+
+[15:00] It's not. It's gonna give everyone, yeah. We're just across the board. Leaning back, relaxing with that with uh what being food safety, yeah. Yeah, hey, speaking of safety, uh what's it like being in LA now, guys?
+
+[15:13] You guys alright? Is it like is it as crazy as I think it is, or is it normal and just like you know, in certain neighborhoods that you're getting overrun by the military? Certain neighborhoods where I'm at least it's yeah, pretty normal. So you don't feel like you're living Robocop? I mean, I do the state of the world, but you know.
+
+[15:36] Uh all right. So, uh but no, but come on, you just got your teeth fixed, man. You didn't eat anything since your teeth got fixed, Jack. You usually have some crappy restaurant experience. What?
+
+[15:47] Misery. It's been misery. I mean, so you're still in pain with the infection? No, but uh uh it's hard to explain. So because it didn't heal very well, so like I can't eat that much without stuff getting stuck in the whole.
+
+[15:59] Oh, I hate that. When something packs into the shape of what your tooth used to be, like your tongue and your cheeks make it pack into a fake food tooth. That's gross. Eating a jello. Mmm.
+
+[16:18] You jello? A lot of ice cream. Okay. And you try any new flavors of ice cream? I mean, I've been lazy.
+
+[16:24] I've been like ordering soup on Uber Eats and eating ice cream. Just the standard stuff. But matzo ball soup? That's too hard, right? You gotta eat that mozzaball.
+
+[16:36] You're gonna blend the whole thing. Or chata ice cream. A lot of delivery food, way too much delivery food. Which, as you know, I just redid my pantry, so I was excited about cooking. But well, you know, I mean, you unless you plan on dying tomorrow, you will be able to use your pantry in the near future, and that's gonna be all the more.
+
+[16:57] Hey, speaking of ice cream though, uh for those of you that were listening when uh Matt Sartwell from Kitchen Arts and Letters came on, he brought in um Marshall, I forget her first name, but Marshall's uh fancy ice book from the 1890s. And of course, I went down a rabbit hole because she built a and I can't find it. So if anyone can find one, I'm really interested in this. Her patent ice cream freezer. First of all, she made what's called a cave, which is fundamentally you just pack rock salt and ice into a into like a double wall cooler, and it makes it uh a freezer just with ice that's cold enough to solidify ice cream.
+
+[17:32] So that's cool. But her ice cream freezer, her hand crank ice cream freezer is the opposite of what became like our standard, the white mountain, like the tall, skinny one that freezes on the side. Hers is wide and flat and freezes on the bottom. But what's cool is that because she's only freezing from the bottom, and because the thing that spins can sink onto the stuff as it melts, you don't have to do that garbage where you're packing all the ice around the side of the thing and it's like catching on the side and like if you don't like break the ice up enough. Have any of you done this?
+
+[18:05] Is anyone didn't even know what I'm talking about? You have a wooden bucket, and inside of that wooden bucket, you have a metal bucket with a dasher in it, a thing that goes over the top of it, and you have to get salt and ice all the way around the bucket. And if you're lazy like me and you don't pulverize every chunk of ice, then an ice thing on the side will fit in one way and then like turn over to the side and catch against the side of the of the bucket on where the seam is and then make it hard to kind of power through it. I hate it. Sucks.
+
+[18:32] And then you have to keep it. I can't allow that. No, you can't. And then here's but hers, it just freezes from the bottom. So I'm really interested in trying an A B, an A B Marshall patent freezer.
+
+[18:42] But alas, eBay, nothing. Nothing. There's a couple that are in museums, but they ain't letting you use them because whatever. Someone I I there's kind of you asked? Who?
+
+[18:52] The museums. I mean, I'm I'm in a museum. I know that no one would let us do it. You know what I mean? Like, you need to find some knucklehead who like this is what they do, or they remake them.
+
+[19:02] Because I want to know if it is functionally not as good. Like, for instance, one reason it could be functionally not as good. Perhaps the scrapers. Like ice cream is a is a is both surface area of freezing, right? And removing the ice crystals off the side of the freezing surface, the scraping.
+
+[19:18] And actually, White Mountain is not as good as it could be with that because they're wooden scrapers. Suuck. But then you have to scrape the stuff off the side as the crystals form and churn it to make the texture, right? So perhaps you know, her you know, scraper is not as good, but it can't be worse than White Mountains. So, or like the other thing is White Mountain, because it's scraping on the side, has equal scraping motion all the way across up and down because it's being rotated.
+
+[19:44] In other words, it's being held um like a straight arm like someone's hitting you with a with a paddle, right? So it's scraping the same speed from top to bottom. Whereas the A B Marshall scraper, it's the actual radius of the circle is the scraper, so there's less scraping per second in the center of the of the freezer from the outside. The outside has a much larger like uh speed magnitude. Anyway, whatever.
+
+[20:06] I'm interested in case anyone's ever used one. So there's that. Okay. Uh what else? Anyone?
+
+[20:12] Anyone? Anyone cook anything? Went to uh your bar last night. Very good. Tasty food.
+
+[20:20] Fun pop-up with uh with folks over at Cato. Yeah, we got uh Austin Henley from uh Cato Kato Kato. Kato Kato. It's good. Yeah, no, it's good.
+
+[20:29] Yeah, food was good, the drinks were good. They're doing it again today because BCB uh BCB is today and tomorrow. Which is the dumbest name, Bar Convent Brooklyn. Yeah. Because it's based on the Berlin wait, the Bar Convent Berlin, which sounds better, I guess, in German, maybe?
+
+[20:46] Maybe. But in English, who says Bar Convent Brooklyn? You know, who says I mean I would love to all the time. All the time Brooklyn. Bar Convent, Brooklyn.
+
+[20:54] We're going to Bar Convent, Brooklyn now. You know what I mean? Like, what is that? Yeah. Uh you're uh, it's you know, what is it?
+
+[21:01] Ausgesteig uh ausgezeichnet. Yeah. That's you know, like like who who talks this way? You know what I mean? Anyway, uh all right.
+
+[21:10] So uh let's see. So Malkith or Malkithy, what do you think? Malkith or Malkithy? Malkitha? How do you pronounce that?
+
+[21:22] I don't know. We don't know. Anyway, asked a while ago on the fake amber gris, and here's what happened. Here's what happened. I ordered the uh Ambroxane, which is the fake uh amber gris, amber gris, however you're gonna say it, which is the whale poop that floats around.
+
+[21:36] It's the it's it's basically the the fat inclusion in whale poop, sperm whale poop that floats around in the ocean for a couple of years, finally gets beached, scooped up, and then turned into perfume for fancy people. It is of course now illegal because you're not allowed to trade in any form of sperm whale product, right? So it's illegal, even even if it is just poop. Strange story. Have I said this on air?
+
+[22:01] Do you know that it's illegal to possess eagle feathers? I do know that actually. Yeah. Someone gave me one in the UK, and I got really nervous and abandoned it because I was worried that I was gonna get in trouble coming back in the United States. I feel like that tells you a lot.
+
+[22:15] You probably would. So here's what happened to me. This is last year. I was in Juneau. Did I tell a story on air?
+
+[22:22] I was in Juneau. I'll tow her back real quick. There's a place called Eagle Beach. It's just like coated in eagles. It's just like it's like, you know how we have pigeons in New York?
+
+[22:30] That, but for baldies. They're intimidating. And well, but they're just chilling, like pecking the eyes out of salmon, right? Yeah. And the beach is littered with eagle feathers.
+
+[22:39] And I was like, oh, eagle feathers. And so I like I picked up this huge armful of eagle feathers, and then I was like, and they're like, nah, man, that's totally illegal. I'm like, what do you mean? They fell off naturally, though. But it's still illegal.
+
+[22:53] It's still illegal because there's no way to prove that you didn't poach. In other words, like there's like no eagle products at all. You're not allowed to create any sort of commerce, trade keeping of any sort of endangered species things. Yeah. At all.
+
+[23:09] So I was, but for a while, I was a smuggler before I realized that it was illegal to pick them up off the beach. I was a I guess you're not a felon until you're convicted, but I would have been. Would have been a felon and a smuggler. Me too. Yeah.
+
+[23:24] So anyway, so uh here's the issue. So the ambroxane is extremely hard to get into solution. So about two weeks ago, I put it into into a solution because I'm making a you have to dilute it quite a lot. So I was doing an aliquot. And I guess the concentration I chose was still so high that it will eventually dissolve.
+
+[23:43] But it I looked at it three days later and I hadn't dissolved yet, and I forgot to look at it. Somewhere at the bar. So today when I go back to the bar, I'll try to locate it and maybe have an answer for how this fake amber gris tastes next week. Um the Wiener system wants to know, and John, maybe you have an answer. Maybe Nastasia has an answer.
+
+[24:00] Nastasia's good at figuring out like off-brand uses for the spin saw. Is there any good reason for a hot dog vendor to own a spinzall? I'm looking for any excuse whatsoever. Well, it helps it helps the Booker and Dax Corporation. Is that an excuse?
+
+[24:15] I don't know. Uh I don't know, Stas is what do you think? What could a hot dog vendor use it for? Huh? Um you made hot dog water once, right?
+
+[24:28] I bought hot dog water. No, I bought it. Uh remember Time Out asked us, is it safe to do it? Is it safe to have hot dog water, the dirty dog water? So we we went downstairs, we gave the guy five bucks and we'll give me a cup of your hot dog water.
+
+[24:43] He's like, What? I was like, I want a cup of the hot dog water. I'm gonna give you five dollars. He's like, You're gonna give me five dollars if I give you a cup of this water. I was like, Yes, here's a here's a cup.
+
+[24:55] He's like, okay. And he gave it to us, and it had a couple of onion floaty bull craps in it, right? No hairs. I noticed no actual dirt. The most like a hot dog I've ever had.
+
+[25:07] It tasted more like a hot dog than a hot dog. And that actually taught me a valuable cooking lesson, which is everyone's like, leaching the flavor out. Not if the not if the broth has more flavor than the stuff that's floating in it. That was isoflavor. It was completely isotonic in all flavor components with the hot dog itself.
+
+[25:26] You were not doing one thing to the flavor of that hot dog by having it float in that water. It could be floating. The same one that I tasted 15 years ago, we could be having it today, and it would taste the same if it was floating in that water because it's probably preserved hell and that water is so like I was like that. I was like, this is good. I was like, someone needs to, someone needs to like, you know, make here's my idea.
+
+[25:49] You ready for it? I think people should do a hot dog ramen. How has that not been done before? You just mean with the broth liquid. Right.
+
+[25:58] So like the packet would be hot dog like flavor. You do the rum, and then you could buy hot dogs and then throw them on top, maybe with an egg. I think people would buy the hell out of a hot dog ramen pack. You know what I mean? Yeah, definitely.
+
+[26:15] I think the museum should do it because we're we're we're gonna be doing uh food vendors. What do you say, Stuff? Giving away another idea that we won't make any money on. Well we would never do it anyway. That's like saying, you know what we should do?
+
+[26:28] We should go to Mars. I mean, I can't do it. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not gonna develop a I mean, I'm not saying we should go to Mars. What?
+
+[26:35] Also, we're out we're out of your goals. Oh, okay. Maybe forever. Like forever. Yeah.
+
+[26:44] Zero exists on our own um platforms and zero exists at Amazon. So we're no more fear balls. Forever. Hey, guess what, people? Small business sucks.
+
+[26:56] Um we talk in tariffs. Sure does. Oh, we have a caller. Caller, you're on the air. Hey, how's it going?
+
+[27:02] This is Jacob from Des Moines. Hey, how you doing? Not bad, not bad. How are you? Doing all right.
+
+[27:08] What's up in uh what's up? You know, I again I've still never been to uh any area around Des Moines, any Iowa adjacent thing, although my wife was across the river in uh what the heck state is that? She was in Omaha, right across the river. Omaha, sure. Yeah, right across the river from some and I was like, were you near?
+
+[27:29] And she's like, no. And I was like, did you have uh the pork sandwich, the cutlet sandwich? And she was like no. She's like, no, she didn't. Who is the best one?
+
+[27:38] What's the best uh I d I don't have a strong opinions about it. Um For those of you who don't know, it's a goofy sandwich. It's a goofy, goofy sandwich. It's a s it's it's a sandwich that has approximately one tenth of the of the meat is covered with the bun. It's like it's like an 18 inch square like circle sandwich with like a full like a four inch bun on it.
+
+[28:00] I let's just say that that Yeah. That doesn't make any sense. It's a stunt. It's like an evil canil sandwich. It's so big that and and here's the other goofy thing, right?
+
+[28:10] If you were gonna serve me that sandwich, w okay, Rebecca, where would you put the bun? Underneath. No, but I would put it on the edge so that you could at least pick the sandwich up and and like dip the the the tenderloin cutlet in some sort of goopy sauce and eat it. Like it hold enough though? Like would it actually hold it up or would it just be a little bit?
+
+[28:32] No, it would not. But like you can't even use it like you can't there's no way to pick it up. You need two hands to pick it up because you need to lift it like a burrito bowl. What are you I'm telling you, man, get I mean, I'm happy I'm happy to show you around and we can go on a tenderloin tour and we can get some sweet corn. Like I'm happy to do that if you ever find yourself here, look me up.
+
+[28:55] Yeah, well, you still give me the phone like I want you to invite Dave to dinner and I want you to sit across from him and stare him in the eye as Dave eats that you can't eat anything. Okay. Okay. I think I think you could uh make a lot more money off of that. That's a deep deep cut stuff.
+
+[29:10] Yeah, that's that's that's you do an OnlyFans, man. Like I mean, I'm gonna say this is taking a dark turn. What is your question? Uh I have well, I have lots of questions, but I know Nastasia's rule, so I'm just gonna stick to the one that's most pressing. Um so I it's my question is about f uh extending the life of fryer oil.
+
+[29:33] Ooh. Um I have noticed um because I I work in a shared use kitchen that has a fryer that doesn't get used very often, and I do some consultation for a place where it's like a catering operation that they don't use that sometimes will go for like weeks or months without using it. I'm curious if there are any sort of best practices if you're not actively using oil for preserving it. My only thought the only two things that I can think of are like popping a lid on top of it or dumping it back into the plastic jug and just storing it in the jug until you need it. So both of those are the things that are in the case.
+
+[30:07] So like both both of those are great ideas. And so I always what I used to do on my fryer was I had a uh a cutting board that I had like routed a uh like a like a dado around the outside of the cutting board so that it fit right over the top like a lid, and then bam, and then when you're not using it, you know, if you need to rest something there, you can rest something there. Uh so that's what I did, and that helps uh like a little bit. First of all, it's like stopping obviously crap from falling into it, which is a nightmare. But still you know, you have a relatively but then it's like an oxidation.
+
+[30:41] Yeah, it's a really phenomenon, right? That's essentially what's happening. Yeah, I mean, look, in in a in a in a fifty forty, fifty, sixty pound fryer, it's still like a relatively small surface area on the top compared to how deep it is. Right. But a lot also depends, like modern stainless fryers are a lot nicer to the oil they're sitting in than the old um the old black iron ones where you know, even when they're kind of cured, you're stu I'm still a little worried that you're having um, you know, like like non non stainless metal contact with it because that can also accelerate metal, you know, metal uh ions accelerate oxidation.
+
+[31:17] But things will last a while. The main thing though is if somebody fries something in that oil that throws off stuff and they don't drain it and filter it, then you also have all of those crumbs and filth sitting in the bottom. Right. And that's doing a lot of damage. And in you know, in in one of those old school, when a nice, you know, cold zone fryers, it's kind of hard even to see whether or not uh, you know, what's what's there in the bottom.
+
+[31:41] They make relatively inexpensive. I mean Yeah, they make relatively inexpensive sensors that you can shove into the oil and it'll tell you whether the oil's in good shape or not. Uh you know, you your your tongue also does a good job. Just dip a l dip a crumb of you know, dip some bread into it and taste it. Wonder bread in there, yeah.
+
+[31:58] That's what I do. What about uh killing the pilot while you're storing it in the cutting the gas? I kill the pilot always. It doesn't stay hot. Well, you know, the the kill the pilot.
+
+[32:07] Well let's blow it out, you know what I mean? And and then the basil kick in, the ba the basal valve will kick in. Uh then of course, you know the whoever comes in to use it then needs to know how to turn on a basal valve. But like, you know, if you don't mean if you don't learn. Yeah.
+
+[32:23] Although like are you is an electric fryer guy. It's a gas. Yeah. Gotta love a gas fryer. Yeah.
+
+[32:32] All three tubes are going. That's something. Yeah. Oh yeah, and ours is ours is uh I don't know, I I guess I don't remember. I haven't seen another fryer since then.
+
+[32:41] But yeah, that when that thing lights up, it's like whoosh. Yeah. Pretty cool. But um cool. Do you okay?
+
+[32:46] Do you do you have any just off the top of your head general guidelines of when you should be like, all right, we should store this. You know, if it's like if you're you because like I said, you're talking about using using the fryer maybe one day out of a week at m uh at the least. Sometimes it would be even longer than that. Yeah, I would just the next on that. The next day, just like, you know, uh, you know, unf you should buy the the fryer oil strainer.
+
+[33:11] So there's funnels that like have like like paint uh almost like paint like I can't describe them. They're like paper paper funnels with like a nylon paint strainer in 'em. You know what I'm saying? And that you can use for oil or paint. Paper super fine, yeah, yeah.
+
+[33:26] So what I would do is I would just get the uh, you know, obviously save the oil cube taners, right? And then also buy buy stabilized fry oil, obviously. And then uh Yeah, of course. Yeah, and then just you know, I I wouldn't worry about doing it like that night, but the next day someone should probably come in when it's you know cool enough and then and then strain it all out because then you're just good, you know what I mean? Um that's what I would do, especially if it's gonna be that long, because in a shared kitchen, if it's just sitting around, you don't know what someone's done to it or any.
+
+[33:59] It's not you know your kitchen. I would I would just drain it, put it in the cube taners, keep it away from light, and and and I would still cover it. Yeah. You know, and I would still cover the fryer. Right.
+
+[34:08] Um man, I wish I no, you know what once? Uh so when I took my fryer out of the city and I I had a place in Connecticut for a while, I put it outside, and an outdoor fryer is obviously awesome. But I remember I fired it up one spring after I hadn't used it for a couple of months, and a mouse had built a nest in the uh in so the back of a commercial fryer. For those of you that never used one, there's there's three in mind, three big tubes, and those tubes are what the you light the fire in, and that's that's the who that we're talking about, that like huge amount of like you know, 80,000 BTUs or whatever it is, like of gas fire, and then all of that stuff goes through the front of the fryer, you know, from underneath through the through the tubes and out the chimney in the back, which is why you don't want to ever stick your hand over the back of a fryer when it's running. Never do that.
+
+[34:58] You know what I mean? Um yeah. And so I was like, what the and I incinerated in it an entire mouse family. Not on purpose. I was like, you you figured that out, and then you went turning.
+
+[35:10] No, it's like, you know, click, click, click, click, click, and then all of a sudden you I saw like, you know, you know, like hot rods when like the fire comes out of their exhaust pipe come out of it chimney. Yeah, I was like, what the hell? You know? Yeah. Anyway.
+
+[35:24] Yeah, it is rough. Uh so that's what I that's uh that's what I would do. Um and you know, obviously, you know, if someone fries stuff that throws off a lot of a lot of stuff, it's gonna be a problem, or if they fry a lot of un unbattered fish, who goes there and fries a whole bunch of unbattered fish in your oil and ruins it? You know what I mean? I'm gonna froze the fish with them.
+
+[35:46] That's something that uh every almost every person that's gonna use the fryer asks, they're like, who provides the oil? And it's like, well, if you're just because like for me, I do small scale sort of like more curated fancy catering and dinner parties and stuff like that. So like I'm frying like a potato's worth of chips or something. Yeah. Um, whereas somebody somebody else might be coming in and doing a fish fry pop-up.
+
+[36:08] And so what we tell them is, you know, if it's if you're if you're just doing a couple of baskets worth, then that's just on the house. But like if you're coming in here and doing like fried chicken or like a huge event that's like all out of the fryer, then we would have you pay for the oil. We would source it, but you would still have to kind of like pay us back for it. Cause yeah, there's that like were it me and just my habits, I mean, I could I could get several months of use out of uh just one batch of oil that then somebody else is coming in and they're frying 200 pounds of chicken, then that's done for the night. You know, you gotta swatch swap it out.
+
+[36:38] So we're super flexible and kind of like tr transparent and communicate communication is kind of the key to success in our particular operation. But yeah. Also, do you have any not do you have any I don't like it with recent recent professional folks who use it? Because the other thing is is that someone who's used to home frying who's never used a commercial fryer before is apt to crank it too high because they're used to the response time of a of a stove. So they're gonna overcrank the oil and ruin it a lot faster than someone who's used to a real fryer and knows you don't have to overcrank a professional fryer.
+
+[37:12] You know what I mean? Right. Most of the most of the sort of amateurs that don't have or people not amateurs, people that don't have the a professional experience that are like, yeah, I want to start a pot like a business or whatever. Most of them are deterred just because of the s initial startup costs and the cost of like renting the kitchen because it's like yeah we're not we're not necessarily a place that you want to start a business. We're a place that you want to expand your business.
+
+[37:34] You know what I mean? Like you should come in here with a decent following and decent cash flow. Um and so most I think the person that the the one other person that he's used it the most is I don't know twenty years of experience and has this awesome tamale company and like the only thing he's really used it for is like frying tortilla chips. So we haven't had that problem but it is something I'm I'm aware of so yeah. Tortilla chips are the easiest thing in the world to fry.
+
+[37:57] They are the easiest thing in all you have to do is make sure that the tortillas don't stick to each other. Everyone hates a double tortilla that is floppy. Nobody on earth likes that. There's not one human being who like wait are you saying you're that person? I mean it I mean I don't mind uh y if it's floppy that's a problem.
+
+[38:15] But sometimes it's not and sometimes you'll get like it looks like a mui fui of tortilla chips if you will. And uh man that thing with some queso on it like it's got superior crunch. Well they better all be crunchy but the odds that someone turn their oil temperature down low enough to fully dehydrate a me f mu say say uh say say thousand leaf, John. Middle fee. Yeah.
+
+[38:36] Uh like any like if they have the oil temperature low enough to dehydrate a whole stack of those suckers before uh and the inside's not still soft, I mean, God bless. I would I would try that. Like, you know, Mark Ladner style, like thousand layer like lasagna, but with tortillas. That's money's great. Right.
+
+[38:52] That's how you that's how you that's how you can how you take a tortilla and turn it, put it on a uh eight course or 20 course tasting menu and charge like 300 bucks for it. It's like, oh yeah, no, we've got this million layer potato chip or uh tortilla chip. Hey, when you're doing uh big batches of tortillas, do you take the baskets out and fry without the b basket and just use like a spider to stir it around, or do you do it in the basket? I should I I can't it's been so long since I've had it. I've probably done all the things.
+
+[39:17] The real thing is to use the baskets to hold the tortillas down. So you dump them all in. So whenever I'm doing small batches, I always double basket. I'm surprised that they don't sell more just like basket pushdowns that fit in. So I bought a bunch of flat fry things to throw on top of baskets because tortillas float like a mother, but you gotta churn them first, right?
+
+[39:36] First you churn them with the tongs. Yeah, and then you sink. That's what I'm saying. It's like you gotta stir stir it around a bunch so they fry evenly and don't stick together. But uh, I usually, if I'm doing a bunch, I'll do it without the baskets.
+
+[39:48] I just dump it straight into the oil and well the question is this the important question you have to ask yourself is is has someone thrown away the grate that goes on top of the tubes? Because if there's no grate on top of the tubes, I'm not sticking anything in that fryer without a basket. But if they've left the grate in and haven't tried to use it as a cooling rack, like a freaking knucklehead, then yeah, you can go directly in. You know what I mean? Yeah, 100%.
+
+[40:11] 100%. Cool. All right. Well, let us let us know. All right, well, like I said, if you ever find yourself if you ever want to make a cookie new shoes trip to Iowa, I'd love to show you guys around.
+
+[40:19] Uh someday. It's not a flyover spade. There's actually some cool and interesting things, and I personally am uh have good relationships with a lot of like interesting producers, uh cheese makers and mushroom growers and farmers and all that stuff. So yeah, open invite. If you guys are over here, let me know.
+
+[40:29] I'd love to be. Yeah. Have you been to the mushroom festival? Yes. We went last year.
+
+[40:46] You son of a it was great. Are you gonna you're gonna invite me? We're gonna do a cooking issues thing at the Do you want to go this year? I do it's in September. I do.
+
+[40:53] I'm gonna enter the fried mushroom. If you want to do a tour, we actually we actually just had our first annual mushroom festival here in Demor and I did a uh a processing demonstration for it. So if that's if you want to do a tour, a mushroom festival tour, uh, you know, think about stopping in Des Moines. We got the magic ones, the not magic ones. Yeah.
+
+[41:10] All right, all right. We'll do it. You gotta get here for you gotta get you gotta get some of the sweet, you gotta get some of the sweet corn too. I've heard people, you know, we've I've called and we've talked about this, and I've contemplated just flying some out to you guys, but uh not there financially. But uh yeah, I've heard uh testimony from other folks that we we've got the best, uh the best sweet corn here.
+
+[41:28] So uh it's worth worth worth the trip. Yeah, well, you know, you can't say, Rebecca, that that like our like, you know, like between New York and Pennsylvania, New Jersey style corn is the best if you haven't flown to Iowa and gotten the stuff that they don't export. It's true. Silver. I just thought it was fine words.
+
+[41:46] I didn't say they were wrong. Yeah, yeah. That's like anyone who says their tomatoes are are the best and haven't been here and had the world's greatest tomato. How are they gonna know? They think they've had a good tomato.
+
+[41:57] Anyway, all right. Let us let us know how the oil thing works out. And if I ever go to Iowa, we'll we'll drop you a line. Um sounds good, babe. Cool.
+
+[42:05] Z Banks writes in, I want to make a carbonated case. It's always nice when it's always it's always nice when a guest is a caller. When a what? Nastasia, I love that the rule was acknowledged and then just completely ignored. Yeah.
+
+[42:19] Yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah. No, they do that all the time. They do it because like they don't respect much.
+
+[42:25] Yeah, yeah. It would be better if they didn't mention it. Hey, you know what? Speaking of respecting the audience, let's uh spend more time talking about it. Okay.
+
+[42:31] Z Banks uh says, uh I want to make a carbonated cucumber cocktail. Uh, how do I get clean cucumber flavor? And what's the best way to clarify the juice? Uh, Z Banks. There's a lot of technical stuff in here.
+
+[42:42] I think your issue is is that when you're clarifying you made an interesting point that you weren't getting foam when you're doing English cucumbers. And Austin actually has a special fancy from Cato pop-up Contra. Stay with it. So he has this fancy, like, you know, grown by a farmer in California, like Korean variety, miniature cucumber that he clarifies. And he said it doesn't foam nearly as badly.
+
+[43:06] And I saw it, it doesn't foam. He's doing like uh, I think a five or six to one of that cucumber with bittermelon in a carbonated thing that he's making at the bar today. Anywho, so I'm wondering whether American cucumbers foam more than like English hot houses and maybe these fancy Korean ones. So if anyone has some experience on carbonating like many varieties of cucumber, I just don't do it anymore because of the carbonation problem I had. That one time I did Pim's Cup for Kate Crater's birthday, and I wanted to stab myself with the foaming situation.
+
+[43:36] Um, but uh I think your problem here, Z Banks, is um you when you're when you're blending them and you're not getting good clarification. I don't think it's a starch problem. I think it's that uh you need to like you need to have enough solids in it for it to be sticky enough. So I would do the enzyme, the Kesel Salt, Kitus and Kiesel salt before you do any spinning. Do not try to get any solids out of it before you do anything.
+
+[44:02] And on a I don't remember whether you were juicing it or blending it, but if one didn't work, try the other. Uh let us know how it goes. Um Mathman writes in back in episode 53, I was talking up 53. Oh my god. What are we on?
+
+[44:17] Like 8,922? Gotta be near 400. Jesus. Anyway, it's about using a rotor stator homogenizer to make uh milks. Um yeah, you know what, Math Man?
+
+[44:28] Do you have like I don't I don't understand the the question? So Mathman, like uh unless we're just musing about it, I haven't had a homogenizer in a long time. I haven't I have a rotor stator homogene. I actually just got rid of it. You know, I put it in the trash because no one wanted it.
+
+[44:42] When Nastasi and I were I I how how hard did I throw that thing into the trash bucket, Stas? Oh, so hard. You were so happy to get rid of it. I was like, it's like, you know, like part of me, like the minute I get rid of something, like, you know, I know I don't have it anymore. But then there's also like I get so angry in those moments that there is a release to just hurling large pieces of equipment into a giant bucket of filth and having some like weird transfer stage in uh transfer station a-hole give us a stink eye the whole time.
+
+[45:16] How many stink eyes did we catch that day, Stas? So many, but it was so worth it. Uh you know what? Like, here's the thing when people are throwing things away, you know, if you're working in a transfer station, I don't know if anyone who's listening to this ever works at a transfer station. Have some mercy.
+
+[45:35] The people who are doing this stuff, no one wants to be going and like, you know, having like a small window to throw away their life's possessions and like, you know, their entire work history into a trash hole because they can't afford to keep it going and no one knows what's going on anymore. Nobody likes that. Like, have some mercy. Right, Saz? Anyway.
+
+[45:53] Um, wait, can I say my food for this week? Yeah, of course. I had to go to a wedding. Oh. Not only did you go to a wedding, didn't you give a speech?
+
+[46:08] I gave a speech and I couldn't eat because I was so nervous because I hate public speaking so much. I didn't eat any of the food. I didn't drink. I was so nervous. Could you post load?
+
+[46:22] Could you do the speech and then post load? I postloaded. I postloaded. But um, but the yeah, I gave the speech and I killed it. I now I know how Pauly Shore feels.
+
+[46:38] Uh now I know what Paul Short feels. Oh my god. I guarantee you it was better than the set that Pauly Shore did the time that we saw him in uh what was that called? What was that place we call went to with him? Flappers.
+
+[46:54] Oh, in bursts. Flappers, yeah. You went there with him? He was you know, doing a set. Okay, but you you went, you bought tickets and you saw him.
+
+[47:02] You weren't there. I don't know if we bought tickets. I arrived at the table and I was told that if you wanted to order something, you press this button, this light will turn on, a human will come, and you can get Flappy's nachos. And I was like, why do I want Flappy's nachos? I was like, who's Flappy?
+
+[47:16] And they're like, it's what this place is named after. I'm like, was there a minimum? There's always a minimum. I don't think so. I think Saz knows all these people.
+
+[47:25] I don't know. I don't remember. I don't remember. There was definitely a minimum. There's definitely a minimum.
+
+[47:29] It's usually like $50. That was the era when Nastasia was just like like going on social media, finding whatever coffee shop that Paul Shore was going to to get his lattes and just like showing up in the same coffee shop. Like that. Yeah. That's how she rocked.
+
+[47:53] Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Very realistic. Oh, yeah?
+
+[48:03] Oh, yeah. Sure she wants to stay to say right now. Yeah, I mean, it can't be better. I mean, Polly I I like attainable goals though. That's what life's about.
+
+[48:13] Attainable goals. Anyway. Moderate success. Moderate success. Okay, hold on.
+
+[48:21] Let me get some questions and we're gonna we're gonna spend some time talking about uh PR. Okay. Uh Kevin uh over there in the Denmark. Uh some of you may be familiar with the uh I didn't know there were viral videos, so I'm not familiar with this, but I am familiar with the technique. Viral videos of shucking oysters by submerging them in liquid nitrogen to uh relax the adductor muscles and make them easy to shuck perfectly.
+
+[48:41] I've done this, but I have never seen a video of it. I haven't seen that either. Um yeah. I'm trying to replicate the process with lobsters, specifically the tails. I did some digging on an old e-gollum for it post.
+
+[48:52] Yes, I do remember e-gollum. Uh references modernist cuisine dinner that was done for Farran where they uh cryo shuck the lobster. And uh I asked uh Francisco McGoy about it, and he has no recollection, but I'm wondering if anyone else has done this. Uh tried it with a few tails, dropping in LN for 10 seconds and then into cold water to retemper, but the tail still clung to the inside of the uh tail and needed finagling. Um the idea is to remove the meat uh if you can improve the quality by not blanching it first in water before you cook it.
+
+[49:18] And this is an extension because remember, Kevin asked me about the uh Isousion all like lobster anesthesia. Here's the issue. I did not have any success with dipping lobsters. I have tried it. I had no, I I saw no benefit or advantage to sticking it.
+
+[49:32] The one that does have crazy success is high pressure. So it I think ruins the texture of the meat, but you can go and high pressure the lobsters and then the entire shell comes off, and you can get all of the meat, including the arms and stuff on a raw lobster. So there's crazy old photos of like lobsters that have completely deshelled, like just like weird, creepy, creepy, creepy. But the issue for me always was that trying to keep the flavor of the lobster, like to me, the most flavorful lobster is uh a lobster that has uh undergone anesthesia, but is still a whole lobster when it is cooked. And I know that's not what you're looking.
+
+[50:13] I know that's not what you're it's tossed a penalty. I threw the ball already across the rear bite. Nice. Uh I know that's not your goal, and no restaurants, but like like for me, the best eating lobster, and by the way, the best lobster in the world is crab. Let's just be clear that the best lobster in the world is crab.
+
+[50:29] Crab is a superior decapod, yeah. Crustacean, for sure. You know what I mean? But uh is lobster anesthetized cooked whole. Because anytime you break the lobster open, you get the the the leaking of the of the hemolith out, the ju the internal juices.
+
+[50:45] So, Kevin, I want to know what you're doing to keep that hemolith flavor in. And then but then I I'll think more uh more about it. Who is that chef stas that gave us the demo of uh of how to uh shuck uh a live lobster and use chopsticks and then did the special like twisty twisty and then also fried that fried that fish and made us made us made us made us physically ill by watching a a live fish being fried. Wait, no. Oh, it's a it's a it's a very so awful.
+
+[51:12] It it is a traditional technique. I was glad I have seen it, but I never want to see it again. Yeah, I would cry. You're familiar with the technique though? No.
+
+[51:21] You wrap you wrap the head in wet towels and then you deep fry the bow and fillet the body. Yeah, and then it comes out with the gill still moving. It's a traditional technique. Rough. It's like it's very rough.
+
+[51:35] And the Stas and I were both like, oh, that's rough. I went to the zoo yeah uh on Sunday and I cried one and a half times. Why? Because the penguin's eating the fish? No.
+
+[51:49] Well, there was a baby gorilla or no baby orangutan, and uh they were talking about the destruction of its entire habitat and uh except the habitat at the zoo? That's that's actually how I justify going to the zoo. I'm like, probably a better life. I don't know. Maybe, maybe not.
+
+[52:06] I don't know. Pretty soon we'll all be in zoos. It'll be great. Um worm road in, I originally pursed a rotovap that is paired with a water aspir for the way, water aspirator is a vacuum pump for chumps. So a water aspirator is you screw uh you screw something on onto a water faucet, you turn the water on.
+
+[52:22] Now they have circulating pumps, so you don't need to waste all of this water. And the water flowing past actually creates a suction that is the vacuum pump. But it's only good for relatively like uh you know, weak vacuums. I'm just gonna say, but that is the classic way in a laboratory to use a uh uh a roto vap because A, they don't care about the environment or water, so they waste it. Used to, they do now.
+
+[52:43] And B, they're usually evaporating things like acetone that don't require that high of a vacuum to get the temperature down to a safe zone. Okay, you with me on what an aspirator is? We good? I can move on. All right.
+
+[52:53] Uh however, I'm struggling with the lack of information out there on rotovaps. I've read Dave's primer. He mentions cleaning with an ultrasonic water bath. Well, any cheap ultrasonic, yeah, yeah, that's just for cleaning the grease and stuff off of your glassware. The problem really is that you can't like there's no ultrasonic bath I've ever had big enough to fit all of the glassware into it to fully clean it out.
+
+[53:11] But yes, if it fits, you must have quits. Uh I don't like the idea of buying bags of ice to run the aspirator every time I want to use a rotovap, because remember, the colder the water is, the better the vacuum you can achieve. Uh I also agree with you. But a lot of chillers out there are very expensive. Would using a Vivor laboratory uh chiller be a good alternative?
+
+[53:29] I recognize this won't get much colder than ice water, but I'm not interested in spending more than a thousand dollars on a chill chiller. All right, listen. Here's the thing, uh worm. Just get a real vacuum pump. Don't use the aspirator.
+
+[53:41] You need a chiller. So there's two problems with a rotovap. You need to chill your uh you need to chill your condenser. And so, like, so I'm assuming you don't mean chill the water. There's two problems.
+
+[53:51] Are you gonna chill the water for the condenser? Is that what you're talking about? Or chilling the water to get a better vacuum on your aspirator pump. Both are problems. Pitch the aspirator pump right now.
+
+[53:58] Just throw it away. Get a different pump with a controller, just wait till you can find one on eBay. Regardless of your chiller, everyone makes a mistake. I looked up the chiller you mentioned, which was a $500 chiller, V VOR laboratory chiller, six liters, negative five Celsius, and it claims to be 800 watts. Here's what's not here's what's not written.
+
+[54:15] The important thing on a chiller isn't how many watts you pull out of the wall, because most of them are thrown away. It's how many watts of chilling power you have at a particular temperature. And just so you know, I'm giving you some numbers. To uh to to recondense a liter of uh water in an hour's time requires 626 watts of cooling, of cooling, not out of the wall of actual chilling. And you're getting a tiny fraction of that uh uh of your chilling of your power coming out of the wall is going to chilling.
+
+[54:46] For ethanol, it's a lot less. For ethanol, it's 200, uh, 200 uh watts of cooling power constantly for a full hour to get a liter. So that's the kind of range, and the Vivor did not mention how much cooling power they had at a particular temperature, which is the only piece of information that's useful to you. But everybody undersizes their chiller 100% of the time. Now, not 40% of the time, 100% of the time.
+
+[55:11] Uh all right, one last question. Uh Rock Baker says, I ordered a bun Ultra NX frozen drink machine. What are the guidelines for non-alcoholic and alcoholic success? Sugar alcohol, well, look, non-alcoholic just jack the sugar. Just jack it, because you need to get the texture right.
+
+[55:25] Like they're like high in sugar, like 12, 13% high. Um, and we are planning a non-alcohol uh coffee something and a Contra Green Piscolata. So we have a we have a chartreuse and pisco, you know, thing. Uh so here's what I say for shoot for uh an alcoholic drink, about 10 between 9 and 10.5% alcohol, uh, a percent below whatever the alcohol is in sugar, so like about 10.3, about 9% sugar. Percent.
+
+[55:55] That's when I say percent, I mean grams per 100 milliliters and about 0.73% acid. And so I'll rip this off real quick. You can go back and listen to it uh again and again to get the numbers. But oh my God, look at that. Can you even read that?
+
+[56:08] It's been like it got so wet on the ride over here. Green chartreuse, I think it's 187.5 mLs. Pisco Alta del Carmen, 254.5 mLs, two mils of uh 20% saline solution, 100.5 milliliters of polydextrose, 5050. Uh that's a one-to-one simple syrup with polydextrose, 194.2 of lime acid with successic, 334.8 uh water, 535.7 pineapple juice, 227.7 coconut milk. It's not oh yeah, coconut milk, 150.7 of Coco Lopez.
+
+[56:43] No relation to Nastasia the Hammer Lopez, and only use that one because it's got the all the emulsifiers in there, they're gonna make your life better. And 1.67 grams of Xanthan for a total of 101,989 mLs per batch. Ding ding ding. Let's talk about PR, Rebecca. So let me ask you a question.
+
+[56:59] A lot of people think that they uh can do their own PR. Why are they wrong? I don't necessarily believe that. Sell it. Sell it.
+
+[57:09] But see, that's how Well I I can I can give Rebecca a resounding um whatever. She's she's a good PR person because she's not fake and she tells the truth and she's really fun. She's like, you know what? This restaurant kind of sucks. Don't go.
+
+[57:26] And that's it. Thank you, Nastasia. Um yeah, no, I mean I I don't think everyone needs restaurant PR. Like it's if you look at how much it costs on a monthly basis, and you think about what else you could be doing with that money in a restaurant, whether or not it's like paying your cooks more, a variety of other things. Ficking fixing your uh walk-in freezer as well.
+
+[57:51] You know, two minutes, go, go, go. But yeah, so I mean, I think Well, how do you measure return on investment when you're looking at a PR? Maybe that's a better question. When should I get when should I get one? Why should I have one?
+
+[58:02] How do I measure whether or not like I'm getting what I need out of it? So I would say that it becomes worthwhile when you are scaling, I would say. Um also it really just depends on the person, you know. Like, and also no one should get PR if they don't understand the value of it because it's a lose-lose. Like when I do contracts, it's like if it's not working, it's not working on either side.
+
+[58:27] No one wants to be locked into it. You mean because if they don't understand the value, they're not going to give you what you need to do a good job. Or they even if you do a good job, they're never necessarily gonna see it. How important is it to mesh with your PR person? Because like very yeah.
+
+[58:41] Very good I mean, I've seen that go really wrong where the person doesn't like how they're being represented, blah, blah, blah. And also, I mean, for what I do, I would say PR is kind of just one part of it too. Like a lot of it is more internal, like, you know, for strategic messaging as well as helping to get ideas across the finish line. So at the end of the day, the best part is like having a great product. And if I can help you get to that point, that's when you're going to be successful and have more press too.
+
+[59:13] And also, I mean you know, I know for a fact you personally don't mind working with weirdos. I love weirdos. Which is good though. Yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[59:19] Like some. So most people in this industry are weirdos. Well, yeah, I mean, like also like, you know, like cr crazy stuff, you know, spit and bubblegum, everything being held together with duct tape, wheels flying off the bus at all times. I mean, it takes a certain kind of personality to be able to deal with those kinds of folks, you know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[59:36] I will never forget that stupid van that Nastasia rented that was supposed to not be moved. Oh. Oh my god. It was supposed to be a sleeping van. It didn't have battery, remember?
+
+[59:44] It didn't have an alternator. And like, uh, I remember the guy was like, uh, the guy tried to bum cash off of us in the uh in the gas station. At the gas station. I was like, buddy, I don't even have an alternator. I'm gonna give you five dollars.
+
+[1:00:04] You're like, I don't even have a working van. You know what I mean? Oh, geez. Anyway, tell people how they can find you if they need if they need some uh some boondoggling to go in their way. That's a good question.
+
+[1:00:14] I hate this answer, and I hate saying it, but honestly, I would probably say LinkedIn. Or you can just find me via cooking issues. There you go. Make more work for you guys. All right, Rebecca.
+
+[1:00:25] Well, uh just did a bad job selling myself, but I am good at selling my clients. Strong. Thank you. You spend so much time selling your clients that you don't sell yourself. It's true.
+
+[1:00:35] Thanks for coming on, Rebecca. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you alive from the heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City News Stand Studios joined as usual with John. How are you doing, John? Doing great, thanks. All good, all good on a humid, humid, humid New York day.
+
+[0:24] Uh got uh Joe rocking the panels behind me. How are you doing? I'm doing very well. Thanks for joining us. In the uh in the lower left, uh, we have Nastasi the Hammer Lopez.
+
+[0:35] How you doing? I'm good. Good, good, good. And then somewhere in the general vicinity of Nastasia the Hammer Lopez, we I think we have Jackie Molecules. Yep, you're here and enjoying the not enjoying the not New York humidity.
+
+[0:51] Uh-huh. Well, well, you it's not it's never that humid in LA, right? Like you never pull like a swampy swamp, right? No. Hey, can I tell a secret that I'm not?
+
+[0:59] I'm saying I don't I don't miss it at all. There's somebody's parents. No. Who thought they could move no. Okay.
+
+[1:07] No. Okay. Uh, do we have Quinn with us today? Sure do. Quinny Quinn.
+
+[1:15] Upper left holding it down. How's uh how's life in Quinnville today? Uh all right today, just tired. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And special guest, all the way from across the street.
+
+[1:31] Chef Sam Yu from uh well, we're gonna talk about it more later. We'll talk more about the restaurants later, but the oldest restaurant he has right now, Golden Diner, right? Yes. That's the oldest. Super old, like five, six years old.
+
+[1:45] Six years old. Ancient. That's an old man. That's an old man. Dinosaur.
+
+[1:49] In restaurant turns. It's like you've gotten over that hump. Although, didn't work for me. I got my bar over the five-year hump, and then when they renovated uh Soundbar, they're like, hey, we're gonna close uh we're gonna close your down. Like, why?
+
+[2:00] Aren't we making money? Yep. Well, why do you want to close us down? Oh, we want to turn it into a private dining room. I was like, really?
+
+[2:07] Yeah, yeah. I was like, you're gonna make less money. We don't think so. Guess what happened? They made less money.
+
+[2:17] Hey, I'm gonna shut down a really cheap to run cocktail bar and put in a private dining room that's only gonna run twice a month. Brains, right, Sus? I don't think I've ever told that story on air exactly like that. Hey, it's fine though. Like, listen, I'll say this before we get into our normal weekly garbage.
+
+[2:42] Uh by the way, if you have something to tell us and you're on the Patreon, call in two 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507. It doesn't pay in life to get mad at people when people make people who have the power to make business decisions will make those decisions. And they're often wrong, right? You know what I mean?
+
+[2:59] And so you can't get mad at them if you can only get mad at someone if they go against what their contractual obligations are. But if you agree to a contract and then they just exercise the rights to that contract, okay. That's why you know, get mad at people for stuff like that. You can say to them, you're making a poor choice. But no reason to get mad.
+
+[3:20] You know what I mean? Anyway, uh life's too long to get mad. You know what I mean? Yes, yeah, yeah. It's a good philosophy, good way to think.
+
+[3:31] Uh all right, what do you guys got this week? What do you guys got going on? Uh I went to the real a really good isakaya called um Subaki, and I know how much you love chicken hearts. I do love chicken hearts. There was a yuckator.
+
+[3:44] So the menu, you know, I had like the usual stuff. It was like um, you know, skin hearts, everything else on the Octori, and then one of them just said special special hearts. I was like, what is special special hearts? Human hearts. And uh it turns out that's just it's just a version of chicken hearts where they kind of like trim away the outer part and just like it's like the you know, just the core, the core of the chicken heart.
+
+[4:08] Hold up, mean they didn't bother like cutting off the freaking aorta and stuff on their regular chicken heart? They just like straight out straight out of the out of the thing. What? I'm saying the special, special the chicken heart skewers are as you'd normally get, right? And they're delicious and amazing.
+
+[4:24] And the special special hearts are just sort of carved further. Wait, so it's like the center center. I mean, oh, they were split already or something, like laid out flat? I don't get it. I mean, it's not gizzards.
+
+[4:35] I don't understand. The regular chicken hearts come looking like a chicken heart. And then these ones are what splayed out? They're like butterfly for some reason because a chicken heart can't cook fast enough. I'm just picturing I'm that's sarcasm.
+
+[4:47] I'm just trying to picture what the special special one looks like. Didn't you first of all? No, I think I prefer the regular chicken heart. But it was it was interesting. Yeah.
+
+[4:59] Sam, what are your thoughts on chicken hearts? Love them. Love, love. Someone here. I forget who it was.
+
+[5:05] Maybe it was Nastasia Harma Lopez said that she went to a place and they gave her too many hearts. No, it's not a thing. Yeah, I went with I went with Aaron Polski and it was like there were like twelve chicken hearts on a skewer, and then five of those skewers of chicken hearts. That was one order of chicken hearts. That's too many chicken.
+
+[5:24] That's too many. For one. But what if you have a beer? I love chicken hearts. I really do love chicken hearts.
+
+[5:33] I have to say, I love gizzards, but I can have an enough gizzards. Although I was once served a duck gizzard salad in Paris, where I don't know how they trim the gizzards, but they were soft but not mushy. I don't know how they did it. Because I've done regular, I've done like hard cooked, like so that I've never gotten it to just that level of bite on the gizzards where I was like, oh, I don't know. Little confit and maybe a deep fry?
+
+[6:03] Confit deep fry, but then they confit, they keep testing it to make sure that they got it just right. They spent time. God, I don't have time. Duck gizzards. First of all, I don't know that a duck heart is much better than a chicken heart, but a duck gizzard is a good thing.
+
+[6:19] True or false. Ooh, duck hearts are good though. I didn't say they weren't good, man. I just said I don't know. Like I for many years I was like, I wish that I wish that our chicken was duck.
+
+[6:32] Like the Frenchish chicken is duck, right? Uh and then I was like, you know what? It's just I've eaten too much bad chicken. Chicken is delicious. You know what I mean?
+
+[6:43] The real chicken. Yeah, chicken. Chicken. Oh, by the way. Uh so what else did you have other than these special, not so special chicken hearts and the regular aka the better chicken hearts?
+
+[6:55] Um, you know, a bunch of crudos, like um bunch of crudos, um, what else? Really good collar. Um which which collar? Yeah. Like a like an animal collar or a fish collar.
+
+[7:10] No fish, fish, fish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[7:14] Tuna. That place is great though. Tuna. Yeah, tuna. How did your hands look afterwards?
+
+[7:20] Picking it all up and getting all that gooey crap all over your hands. Um not too bad. Went to work with the shops. Yeah. All right.
+
+[7:31] Uh so what did I do? Oh, you know what today is? I'll I'll give a little thing today. Today is and Jen, not Jen, my wife, neither of us like talked about it until this morning, 30th wedding anniversary. Today.
+
+[7:43] 30. Congratulations, oh, that's Nastasia hanging up on me. Yeah, strong. Nastasia is gonna be like, I have to say this just so people know kind of what like our general life is like. As soon as I'm done on this, I'm gonna get on a bike back home.
+
+[8:02] Nastasia's gonna call me and she's gonna say, You scumbag, what are you doing for your 30th wedding anniversary? And I'm gonna say, not dying? I mean, I don't know. Like, what am I supposed to do? It's the middle of the week.
+
+[8:15] You know what I mean? Cook something nice. Go get like caviar and poix gras and champagne. Like, come on, Dave. You're a food professional.
+
+[8:25] Food professional. Here's the thing, right? First I have after the show, then I have a bar meeting and then a meeting at the bar. Remember, those are two different things. A bar meeting is when the bar staff gets together, and a meeting at the bar is when someone who doesn't work at your bar is coming to the bar for a meeting.
+
+[8:44] So I have to dance between the raindrops and cook something. Maybe I'll cook something that we had on our honeymoon in Italy, 1995. Italy in 1995 was sick. It was real good. Um anyway.
+
+[8:56] And it's it's kind of good to go someplace when you don't have any money or expectations and you're really young because like everything is new. You know what I mean? Like everything is awesome. You know what I mean? Hard to recapture that.
+
+[9:12] Also, my ice machine broke. That's the other thing that happened. I think I mentioned this on the air. The ice machine broke. I do not recommend anyone get a professional ice machine for their house.
+
+[9:21] It's just not. I mean, you're like, it's awesome. I have clear ice all the time. And I lots of it. And then it's like, yeah, but it's loud as hell.
+
+[9:31] It dumps water everywhere. You go through filters like a demon. And it's just intensely wasteful. It's just like intensely wasteful. It's just another thing to sanitize every once in a while.
+
+[9:42] But you know, it I so I have a new seltzer system up and running, right? Same carbonator. Big Mac McCann. Never gonna give it up. Never, never, never, never gonna give it up.
+
+[9:51] Good carbonator. It'll be carbonating after long after I'm dead. I'm gonna pass it to my great-grandchildren, I'm gonna have this carbonator. It's gonna be good. But I've moved my chilling and dispensing system, but I don't want to talk about it because I have a cheap line and I might get another one, a backup before I tell you guys which ones to buy.
+
+[10:07] All right, so maybe next week. We'll see. Um all right. So what else we got? What else we got in this week?
+
+[10:13] This week, what's good? Quinn, do you guys? I have a question. Oh, I have a question. All right.
+
+[10:18] I have to go to a German hosted pool party. What should I bring? Wow. Uh toilet brush. Because they're gonna have that weird flat toilet.
+
+[10:29] You know what I mean? And you're gonna poop into the toilet, and then if they don't have the brush handy, you're gonna have to like what? Well, they're gonna have a bidet, so um, yeah. So not that. Oh, liquor.
+
+[10:41] What liquor should you bring? Separate question. Um like what what drink. Well, do they did they tell you in advance what they were gonna cook? No.
+
+[10:52] Just imagine it's German food. Okay. Well question, question. Okay, listen, listen, listen. Are you well schnapps?
+
+[11:00] Brings the schnapps. Listen, the question is do you want to bring something that says, hey, I've heard of Germans before? Or do you want to bring something that's not German because if they want something German, then they'll just do their own thing. I was just thinking more of a cocktail that they probably haven't had a while. Pick up some of their like canned stuff and like bring an assortment of canned night on earth?
+
+[11:29] McGill is a good idea. Okay. There you go. Yeah. Because otherwise, those things are in cans, they're good.
+
+[11:36] Otherwise, and they could chill them and drink them. You're gonna make something, it's gonna be in a bottle. They're gonna pour it wrong, you're gonna stare at it all day. You're gonna be boring holes through the head of the host because they don't know what to do with it. Like the cans throw them on ice, call it a day.
+
+[11:49] They can drink it along with whatever other, you know, Jody beer stuff they have going on. You know what I'm saying? And you don't have to feel you don't have to feel like you can feel proud that you brought something that's local that's made by a friend of a friend of ours, and then you also don't have to worry whether they consume it on the spot because it's not on you anyway. You know what I mean? Are you do are you doing the tiki truck pop ups?
+
+[12:14] So Nastasia's talking about something that no one here knows what the hell you're talking about. This is classic Nastasia, the hammer Lopez. They just drop like drop something onto like, you know, a podcast that anyone could be listening to that literally no one would know what we're talking about. I I don't know. Nastasi wants me to do it.
+
+[12:29] Nastassi wants me to do a Bastille Day event that she is doing and says that there's some sort of pop-up in in LA. Now, I'm gonna remember 30 30 wedding anniversary 30th? Right. Okay. So here's the thing about the being like married 30 years is that there's some give and take.
+
+[12:46] One thing that I can't do is like just take off and do fun stuff like that doesn't make money. Because and so like I need to figure out like how the money's gonna work, and like just getting a plane to get paid for at this point in my life, like, you know, when I don't know if you know this, there's this business called Booker and Dax that we founded like I don't know, a billion years ago, and we just don't make enough money for us to not have to make money doing other things. So, you know, I mean not to put everything out on the air randomly like someone I know just did a minute ago. But I would like to go, but I gotta figure we gotta figure out like, you know, how we're gonna make it work. I then have to go to Tales of the Cocktail the week after that, and then I get to go to Alaska where I'm planning on having some late summer berries.
+
+[13:28] Late summer berries. Ooh, delicious. The Thimbleberry, as I've said on the air before, is not God's berry from a texture standpoint, but from a flavor. Imagine a fresh berry that tastes like it's already been made into jam. Are you gonna go to the um the um the was it bear kills or bear uh oh the one where they have the salmon can?
+
+[13:45] Well, yeah, the same, yeah, because I watched it all the time. Yeah, no, uh that's in a like that's because if you do, I want you to like tell me when you're gonna go so I can watch you on the Well, have you familiar with that really stupid, stupid uh like YouTube thing where they do the silly salmon, and so like these two morons will be walking down the street, and someone will just say silly salmon, and then whatever else you're doing, the other person has to jump up in the air and start flapping like a salmon and into the water or into the ground or whatever. So if I do go, do you want me to do that right over the waterfall and see if a bear just picks me up? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like on a sick.
+
+[14:14] Right? Bear just grabs me out of the air. It's like, oh, bears are not as big as your childhood eye thinks. I mean, they're big. Especially like not a brown bear, grizzlies.
+
+[14:29] Like Kodiak. Yeah, yeah. No, I don't think we're going there. We're gonna stop maybe by Kanae Fjords and a little bit in um Denali, but half of Denali more than half of Denali is closed because of a road slide, uh mudsli on the uh on the road. Hanging out in Juneau, which looks a lot like Dagobah.
+
+[14:45] Sick. Dagobah. Uh all right. So uh anything else you fools have uh cooking-wise. Quinn, you've been cooking or you just been uh just been recuperating.
+
+[14:57] Well, yeah, my dad, my dad's been cooking. Uh we did try uh we made risotto last Friday, and I've been trying a little uh cheat that I've been developing. So I did for every 100 grams of like a standard Italian rice. Uh in this case, uh kind of rolly, I did 20 grams of uh intentionally broken rice. In this case, uh broken sort of sushi rice.
+
+[15:36] Well, I'm trying to separate the variable of like having that perfectly cooked like rice grain and getting sort of some extra starch. In the surrounding. Wanna just use uh starch. I guess you could, like a rice flour. Yeah.
+
+[15:59] But you know. I I I had people do when they want to do that. But so and and and that's the only reason why you didn't use the same rice and just like blitz a little bit of it first. Yeah. Okay.
+
+[16:19] Yeah, like I felt like I mean the most repeatable. Yeah, also the the the Italian rice is very expensive. So it's like it feels bad cracking it up. Okay. But like, I mean, the the most repeatable way is to just use if you want starch to leach out, just use starch.
+
+[16:40] You know what I mean? Like starch it up. And then you could adjust the exact uh amylopectin uh amylose ratio you want based on the starches you choose. Based on the starches you choose. You know what I mean?
+
+[16:54] No? Yeah, yeah. Okay, I I had I had both types of rice on hand. What kind of stock did you use? What stock did you use?
+
+[17:03] Just red stock. Something super simple, just onion garlic for the aromatics, a little white wine, homemade red stock, and then finished with a little bit of stock pureeed with some asparagus and a bunch of herbs from the garden. Did you pass the asparagus after you pure it or was it goopy? No, maybe we did the Vitamix, so we just blitzed the crap out of it. I had some actually, actually, you know what?
+
+[17:33] I did something else cooking this uh on Friday, Matt and Ted Lee from Boyle Peanuts.com, who by the way, I haven't read this book, but we should get them on the on the show. They wrote a book where they embedded as cater as catering helpers at $10 an hour for four years. You read this book, John? I haven't, but I know about it, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[17:50] It's called, I think Unboxed or Hot Box, Hotbox. Hot Box. And uh yeah, we should get you should get them on. Anyway, I did an event for them. I don't know what made me think of that.
+
+[17:59] Something that Quinn just said made me made me think of this event that I did on Friday where I was slinging slinging drinks and I made the wax cups, which are gonna show up at the bar sometime soon. The little embossed symbols. I don't know, made me think of it. Quinn, what did you just say? What was the last thing you said?
+
+[18:15] I used the Vitamix. Oh, I had very good asparagus at that party. The caterer built this weird special grill that like was uh completely wood fired, but it had under ovens, so they had like warming ovens underneath that were fired by the grill and like a massive multi multi-rotissery thing run off of a chain that looked like a torture device, and then they could also hang uh their veg above the grill to get a light smoke before they it was nice, all portable, all like out of a horse trailer. Yeah, I've seen some of those are pretty impressive. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[18:51] A lot of a lot of water jet cutting of their logos and stuff in it. Strong move. Yeah, yeah. Technology people, technology. Uh all right.
+
+[18:59] All right, very good. All right, so Sam, the reason I wanted to have you on the show, well, hey, uh I went for not for my anniversary, but for some some event. My birthday, I don't remember. I went to uh I went to uh Golden Diner, which is in the lower well, what do you it's like Chinatown, not Lower East Side. It's kind of in it's two bridges.
+
+[19:20] Yeah, two bridges. There you go. Which is a weird name, right? First of all, for those that don't know how New York City works, like we have two bridges that are really, really close to each other in Manhattan, the Williamsburg and the Manhattan, and then where they end up in Brooklyn are like a billion neighborhoods apart. It's so weird.
+
+[19:36] They completely diverge. But we also have two bridges that are relatively far apart from each other here in Manhattan, the Brooklyn Bridge and the Manhattan Bridge, and they're very close to each other when they hit Brooklyn. So it's like you drew two parallel lines across the river, and then you drew like a little line between the two, like a like a not equal sign. And that's our bridges. So two bridges is the area in New York that is close to actually it's closer to Brooklyn.
+
+[20:01] It's between Brooklyn and Manhattan, whatever. It's a thing. Anyway, so uh I went there and everyone wants to know about your pancakes. Oh God. Everyone asks you about the pancakes.
+
+[20:11] You're never gonna take these damn pancakes off the menus. For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, imagine like a little omelet pan, right? So like I don't know, seven, eight inches, seven inches. I don't know, six inches. It's bigger than six inches.
+
+[20:21] Seven? I don't know. I think it's a six-inch pan. Right, but it's bigger on the edges. Six inches is the is the base.
+
+[20:27] Because pan measurement, let's face it, people, pan management is stupid. Pan measurements are the dumbest measurements on earth. Like, because you never know. Are they specifying the outside? Are they specifying the inside?
+
+[20:39] How do I buy a lid for a six-inch pan if I don't know the slope of the edges? It doesn't make any sense. None of the none of this makes sense. Whatever. So it's a six-inch base on the pan.
+
+[20:47] So here's what they do: they they put the pans on the oven, like some unconscionable amount of like butter in them or whatever. No butter. No butter? What is it? Just the butter from the thing?
+
+[20:55] Yeah. Oh, because it's tef, it's te it's uh nonstick. Not stick. So but it tastes like there's a lot in the batter then. Nothing?
+
+[21:02] There's no oh you put it on top, after it's a big thing. It's on top. It's in the sauce. A lot of butter in the sauce. There you go, there you go.
+
+[21:07] Goes on the oven, uh on the on the range, and then finished in the sally, right? That's how you did it. That's the way the night I was there. Yeah, okay, so but these pancakes are they're cooked all the way through. Let's just stipulate that now right now.
+
+[21:14] They're cooked all the way through. But they are how how big is that, John? Half? No, no, more than half an inch. Three quarters?
+
+[21:29] At least. Yeah. And it's a double stack. So these pancakes that are bigger than your head and and like thicker than my hand at its at its widest point. And I have like fat meat hands, right?
+
+[21:42] And so like a double stack of those with I guess the butter sauce on it. And it's a lot. Honey, maple butter. Honey, maple butle. Ooh, yeah.
+
+[21:49] So like, but everyone you must sell infinity of these every day. Yes. Like roughly infinity. Roughly infinity. More or less.
+
+[21:56] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, plus or minus. Right. Yeah. So uh so what's what's the secret of that?
+
+[22:01] What like first of all, like what made you do that? And second, are you ever gonna be able to take it off the menu? Definitely definitely not. Definitely won't ever take it off, and we'll hopefully just continue selling more of them. Um man, we're a diner.
+
+[22:18] We need to have either a pancake or a waffle. Waffle just operationally in that space of a kitchen, very messy. Also, unless you bought the f the HVDs, you'd never have God's waffle anyway. So what's the point? If you're not gonna make God's waffle, what's the point?
+
+[22:33] Sure. Yeah, anyway, yeah, yeah. Uh and then we wanted to bring some homage to an Asian or Korean type of flavor. And so we thought of the honey butter pancake. And so in that sauce that has honey, maple, and butter, we also put soy sauce in there.
+
+[22:52] Um for to add a little salty. And then uh it's a honey maple butter that also tastes delicious. Uh I think the big thing is when we first made the sauce, it tasted like Werthers original. That's not a bad thing though. No, that's that was when we're like, this is done.
+
+[23:11] This sauce is done. And then, you know, just to lighten it all up, because you made this thing sound so heavy, we just finish it with a little bit of lemon zest. Now it's like it's got no calories anymore. It's like fruit salad. This was a lead weight in my stomach, but now I feel like I ate a balloon.
+
+[23:28] I'm just floating. Is it crude a taste? But uh and it's not heavy, but it is big. Like, in other words, like I like I could polish off any amount of pancakes by myself and then eat a full meal. I'm like, mocker.
+
+[23:40] You know what I mean? Like it's it but like uh but how do you ensure is it just a heat regulation? You just make sure that it's cooked all the way through, or because you go from the bottom for a while and then top without flipping it, you can get more control. Right. So we cook it about 90 per 95% of the way in the pan just so you get the nice color, and then you just finish it in the oven, uh uh in the sally so you make sure the top part isn't raw.
+
+[24:03] And when you were first starting, was it all cake tester or touch, or how are you like getting it like just and how how long does it take someone on that station to get it right? Uh cake tester and honestly, we would just like break through it a little bit. Because you're gonna flip it anyway. Right, no one's gonna see it. Yeah, no one will know.
+
+[24:19] Right. And then uh that station's that whole line is tough. It's not easy because it's a three man line, three person line, and we do volume. Like it's turn and burn, and we try to execute at a very high level. So how many burners do you have?
+
+[24:35] Are you six or eight? What's uh six, six burners, two fryers, thirty-six inch plancha? Well, your burners, man, they can't do anything but pancakes. It's just like Pancake veil. I mean, I'm saying you have some other spaces, but you know what I mean?
+
+[24:45] It's like it's true. It's it's Pancakeville. It's crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because everyone who goes has to has to get it.
+
+[24:52] And and I think the most frustrating part sometimes is like a four-top will come and they'll come in for four pancakes. Dummies. It's like, what? Dummies. It's too much.
+
+[25:02] You need to start the rule like they used to have at the uh uh no one ever remembers this, so I'll be the only one I'll say it again, is the Royal Canadian Pancake House. Not that their c pancakes were fantastic, but they were huge and they knew people were gonna come in and try to share the pancake. And so they would like double charge you if you tried to share it. But you're like, oh, you want them to order other things. Just get one pancake for the group, fools.
+
+[25:22] It's more than enough. It's more than enough. You'll have enough pancake. More than enough. You know what I mean?
+
+[25:26] I hope people take this advice and listen. They're not gonna be. It's one pancake. It just bottlenecks us so bad and and puts the kitchen. How about this?
+
+[25:43] I don't I just 14. All right, okay. So let's say it's 14 bucks, right? Second one's twenty. You're on to something.
+
+[25:53] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's like uh I had a dream never gonna do it, where it's a pizza restaurant where the pizzas are whatever I say they are, and then I charge you more to take toppings off. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
+
+[26:03] They're like, can I get it without the anchovies? Yeah, it's four dollars. Exactly. They're like, what? I'm like, well, you uh you have to pay me for the pain.
+
+[26:11] Right. It's not meant to be eaten that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So you know, you can do it, but you know, I'm gonna charge you more.
+
+[26:17] Right. Like you can't you can't do that. People get so mad. You know what I mean? I guess rightly so.
+
+[26:23] You know, the there there's a thing, right? Where it's like for a while, like Dave Chang was all about like he I think he was early on the and then he left it you know in the right amount of time. It's like just if you want it not my way, go to a different restaurant. You know what I mean? Like so he was like, we're not gonna sub out a bunch of stuff, we're not gonna do this.
+
+[26:39] We're you know, if you want a vegetarian-friendly restaurant, he's not like this anymore. But like back, you know, when some and noodle bar, he's like, just go somewhere else. There's plenty of places. There's you know, 20,000 restaurants in the city. Um so I kind of see it from both from both ways.
+
+[26:53] Like it really does hurt, right? You tell me, you tell me, both of you, John and Sam, it hurts when someone orders something that you know is objectively bad because they've removed like the key ingredient from something. So but on the other hand, you know, they're the ones gonna eat it, but then the the thing that you hate is that then they're judging you based on a a poor choice that they made. So what do you think about this? That's a hundred percent true.
+
+[27:19] And just the thing about David Chang, I think back when he was doing that, that was so nouveau, because it was coming out of like the times of the Daniels and the where everything was like, yes, anything, anything. And it was just so that attitude was so new. But I think that doesn't fly anymore. No. That's that's that's over.
+
+[27:36] No, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think like look, it's like it's like everything else, you know, it's a pendulum, it has to swing, like, you know, every swing of the pendulum brings good and it brings bad. You know what I mean? And so he was the first swing of the pendulum in a while that way, and then goes back. But yeah, back to your original question.
+
+[27:55] We we make those mods all the time, especially up here in Midtown, just because they're it's a very different guest than who we serve downtown. Well, so this brings me to my second thing. So the second reason I wanted to have it on the show, other than to discuss your pancakes. Yes. Right.
+
+[28:09] Is that, and this I've this is a kind of a crazy, I've never heard of this. Maybe it's happened. Obviously it's happened before because there's billions of people in the world. But your parents had a restaurant. From when to when?
+
+[28:21] When did it close? Uh last March. Their restaurant closed last. Right. You shut it down, and then you opened a new restaurant in the same space your parents opened, which is crazy.
+
+[28:32] It's a crazy idea. But your your dad's involved, right? No, no. It's on the web. He's not at all.
+
+[28:38] Not not at all. Because that would be too much. That would be too much. We tried that. We tried that.
+
+[28:43] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So what's that like? Like, oh first of all, like, I can't imagine growing up in this world and then going to work in it afterwards. It's like, you know, I grew up going to uh the hospital all the time because my mom was a doctor.
+
+[28:58] And so I I basically grew up at Columbia Presbyterian, like, you know, hanging out in the ER and all this other stuff, you know, sweeping up mercury on the ground when the sphincterometer's broke and like, you know, stealing hemocrit tubes and all this stuff. You know what I mean? And I was like, you know what? Never gonna be a doctor. Not gonna happen.
+
+[29:14] You know what I mean? But you like grew up and you're like, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna do this. Or not. Like, how did you get to first of all, how did you get to wanting to like m go into this business that you grew up seeing? Right.
+
+[29:26] And secondly, what the hell is it like opening a place that you grew up kind of like going to in like a whole different place? It's gotta be crazy. Sure. Um I I didn't know it when I first like worked at my parents' restaurants in high school that this was the thing for me. They, as every Asian parent, really tried to not have me do restaurants or be a chef.
+
+[29:50] And so it wasn't until I graduated, like it was my senior year of college that I was like, shoot, this is this is the thing that I want. This is the thing that gets my blood flowing, being in a buzzy restaurant and and doing something that I actually care about. Um so we like like I mentioned, it there was a time after I worked at major food and had over a decade of cooking experience that I considered working with them at this space across the street from where we are now. Um and I worked with them for about a year and a half at New York Kimchi, which is what it was called. Uh and it didn't it it wasn't I I couldn't do that just because the way they operated was so old school, um like immigrant kind of mentality.
+
+[30:39] And you know, I had just finished working up my my way up as a chef. And so you not not just like all of like the Carbon Therese places, we also didn't you work at Co. for a while. I did. Yeah.
+
+[30:50] So it's like, you know. Places certain places, yeah. Places. Um and then uh during that time I was writing the business plan for Golden Diner and then just really just hustling, trying to stack up, working a lot of private dinners, doing what I could do, and then eventually I left and opened up Golden Diner in one year was it, 2019. So says the internet.
+
+[31:17] Yeah, I I can't remember the year I opened it. Everything blurs. Right. Yeah. And so then how did this opportunity to open this place here?
+
+[31:24] First of all, so break a little news so we can talk just openly. So right now it is two different concepts, upstairs, downstairs, two different names. You want to describe what's what's going on in the issue, and if you want to fold this into it, I'm super interested in locations and how they changed post pre- and post-pandemic. And so you get to open a new concept after the after the pandemic. How much has it changed since you saw it beforehand and afterwards?
+
+[31:48] So take those in any order and we can re-ask them again. Okay. So currently it's Golden Hof on the first floor. It's a Korean pub. Very focused on cocktails, beverage, uh, and a lot of bar food uh that go well with those cocktails.
+
+[32:02] Uh and the lower level is called New York Kimchi, an homage to my family's restaurant for over 12 years. And um it's a Korean raw bar and steakhouse. But we are in about a month to two months' time, we'll be transitioning out of the New York kimchi name, and it's all going to be one concept: Goldenhof, Korean bar, and steakhouse. So, but is the menu still gonna be because like that has been happening a lot in the past like 10 years or so is like different menu up and down or different menu front and back. Are you gonna keep different menus or are you gonna be like all one menu?
+
+[32:42] So it's a it's there's gonna be two separate menus, uh 70% crossover in between the two, but we do want to differentiate the experience because downstairs there are the Korean barbecue tables, whereas upstairs there aren't. And also the upstairs uh vibe is just more geared towards drinking and um that sort of atmosphere versus downstairs, which is more of a dining kind of vibe. What's the ventilation like on those damn things? Uh so there is they're all connected to the hood. Right.
+
+[33:14] So there's a long uh long uh line that connects to each of the tables and it goes to one big hood, and it sucks down. Oh, it's a downdraft. It's a downdraft. Huh. And that all that actually g gets all the stuff or no?
+
+[33:30] It does. Really? Yeah. Now on down, did do you do you have to answer those things? Like how does it each one of those are answers.
+
+[33:37] Oh my god. Oh my god, that must be a pain. Big pain. And um and uh are yours or are you are yours like uh like a fired like traditionally or gas fired? What are they?
+
+[33:49] Gas. Gas, yeah. And like uh how how hard do they crank? Like pretty hard, or are they they they they could burn. They burn things, yeah, for sure.
+
+[33:57] Nice. Yeah. I love those things. I always wondered how the hood so like some places do the overheads or they're all downdrafts here. I I might be mistaken about this, but I think they're outlawing the downdrafts now moving forward.
+
+[34:10] But you're we have been around for So you're allowed to oh, because you have the old grandfather calling it. I I I'm not a hundred percent on that, but I've heard that. Let's hope so. So what is answering? Oh, it the fire suppression thing.
+
+[34:24] So it's like there's like a pipe that runs to it with a little with a little what do you think? It looks like a little chrome microphone or something. What does it look like? It looks like a little nipple. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[34:33] And then like if uh if the S hits the F, yes. Chemicals, it's it's a big thing. It the fire, fire department comes, but you know it's important. Most restaurants don't have an guest areas. It's true.
+
+[34:49] You know what I mean? I don't ever want to see a full dining room with a bunch of guest-coated in another. Well, well, it's it's underneath the table. Uh oh. So it comes from underneath So it wouldn't just like explode everywhere.
+
+[35:03] Yeah. I've never seen one go off. Have you ever seen one go off? No. I never want to see one go off.
+
+[35:07] Me neither. Nils Norrin, who I used to work with said he had it go off once that I for he was trying to stop someone from pulling it because he could have, he thinks he could have gotten and they actually pulled it. So it wasn't the you know how like you can either pull it or you or it can and someone pulled it and he's like, no. Yeah, toast. Toast.
+
+[35:29] Never want to see one go off. Never, never want to see one go off. Uh so what were else were you talking about? Oh, so how is the guest change here? Like I noticed, for instance, you're open for one hour at lunch.
+
+[35:40] Is that just because it's a crush here? Like one hour, or no, menu could have been wrong. The uh the internet could have been wrong. It said that like 11, 11 to noon. Oh 11 to we're open for lunch throughout 11 to 5.
+
+[35:52] Oh, okay. Well, see, the internet ruined me. Yeah. So fake news, fake news. So talk to me about just talk to me about anything you want to talk about.
+
+[36:02] What's up with the uh I haven't had a chance to go yet, so I'm embarrassed. So it's one kitchen though, right? I mean, I haven't. One service kitchen, one prep kitchen. So two kitchens.
+
+[36:13] Wait, are they are they wait? So the Okay, okay. But like all the food that's going out to the tables is coming from one kitchen. One kitchen. And then what do you do with the prep kitchen during service time?
+
+[36:22] Like prep for the next day? Yeah. That's smart if you have the space for it, because like if you ha I mean, it just means you have to have fewer shifts, right? So then can you shift people out of the prep if you get crushed and have them help you on service, or has that never happened? It doesn't happen just because there's skill sets, they're not trained to be line cooks.
+
+[36:38] Oh yeah. Um so it's hard to do that. But it's just smart because it creates more streamlining to not have um like if we had two service kitchens, then another chef would would need to be down in the other kitchen, that sort of thing. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think the hardest thing, like for uh well, because uh what are the people like here?
+
+[36:54] What are the hours? When do people come here? That's the thing I was curious about. Like, like what are the so pre-pandemic, right? You would get, I mean, this is never been a late night area.
+
+[37:05] Well, for places that are destinations, yes. You know what I mean? But like if you and you're, you know, it's steakhouse, it's gonna be destination, and it's not that far from other places they can go. Yeah. So but like for non-destination to capture after work, that's gotta totally change, right?
+
+[37:20] Because people are doing a lot more of their after-work drinking closer to their houses. They're not coming in on Fridays. Like what what's going on in this neighborhood? How's it changed? So we're we're actually very we're living the day-to-day and figuring that out now.
+
+[37:31] What we're seeing currently is um lunch, lunch is steadily growing, and then uh like five to eight PM, it's busy. And only certain days, pretty much the days where the office workers are out, which is just like Tuesday through Thursday. But do you get crushed on Thursday when people are gonna see themselves for the last time? Yes. So Thursdays, Wednesdays, even today, you know, we have a fair amount of people on the books.
+
+[37:58] Um Mondays, not pretty. Uh Saturdays are decent, you know, not bad. Uh there's a decent amount of tourists, so we try to capture that as well. But it's it's like I said, it's a such a different market up here, and just trying to interject ourselves into, you know, these corporate offices that already have their Rolodex of 10 to 15 restaurants that they've been going to for the past two decades. Yeah.
+
+[38:25] So, you know, we're slowly introducing ourselves. The hard thing about the hard thing about being like open, like, you know, open for you know, all these days and all these hours, but having those hours and days look very different day to day is staffing, is a huge pain in the butt, right? So it's like because you need to have a certain number of people on shift to make a concept work at all, and then it's really hard to titrate. So, like I notice you have a late night menu. I mean, that's always a smart move, right?
+
+[38:53] Because you can staff down for the late night. I'm assuming that's why you do it, because I don't know, like and then but then eventually you could get crushed at late night. If if we if you get like, are you gonna try to open later or no? Are you gonna try to be later than midnight? Yeah, probably not.
+
+[39:05] I think we're gonna try to go later than midnight just because no one wants to go to a bar, no one wants to go to a bar at 11 if they know they're gonna get kicked out at midnight. So it's not like you it's not like they're gonna stay a lot after midnight, but you're not gonna capture anyone going out if they know that they have to be a one and done. You know what I mean? Even in a neighborhood like ours where there's a boat ton of other places open late, it's just hard to get those people in. You know what I mean?
+
+[39:31] But here, like I say, it's a destination. So I guess it's hard to, it's hard. I'm just trying to try I'm asking you like how to figure out like this to me is the most complicated thing. How to get how to figure out when the guests are gonna come and how to have the right amount of staffing for each time the guesses. Is that like is that the whole trick or no?
+
+[39:50] Or do you can you open just the top and have the bottom shut if you wanted to, or no? So we're we're we're trying all of these things out, like what you just said. Um because it's two different levels, it it's tricky to because some people one day downstairs will be busier than the upstairs and lunch. So we're gonna start uh opening lunch for upstairs, pack that out first, and then open for the downstairs area starting next week. And then um, yeah, I think for me, make me and my understanding of this neighborhood, the name of the game is trying to get as much large parties in as possible.
+
+[40:29] So hopefully by next week, we're just every night booking one to two large corporate or non-corporate, just like you know. You have companies around here, so that's gotta be good, right? Right. And and then so that way you sort of you're not relying on, you know, the the 50 to 100 guests that may or may not stop in that night and catering. Well, right.
+
+[40:49] So like office catering, like during the day. Do you do grab and go or no? Uh we do takeout and delivery. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah.
+
+[40:56] Yeah. Yeah, but not like, yeah, not like I'm not talking like steam table, so but like they can order it, pick it up, and go back to their office. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We are definitely doing a big that's gotta be big, right? It doesn't at least, I mean, you need kitchen staff for it, but you don't need a lot of upfront staff.
+
+[41:10] Yeah. Huh? All right. And how has it changed uh in terms of the the guests since you took it over? So pre-pandemic, I remember uh so just to give you an idea of what it used to be.
+
+[41:22] The first floor was felt like a Korean style chipotle. Where it was like 10 to 15 dollar check average, you get your peeping pop, you get your, you know, whatever it is. Um we used to crush between 11 and 2.30 Monday through Friday without because everyone was in the office. Right, right. Um and then after that, because it didn't have much of a vibe, it was like not that great.
+
+[41:48] Um whereas now it's such a sh limited amount of days out of the week where we get crushed. Um so it's just very different. It's a der very different world. Who knows with you know, people trying to get office workers back into the office, if that's actually gonna be a thing? Who knows, man?
+
+[42:06] It's like, who knows? Yeah. Who knows whether people are gonna start. No, I don't think we're ever gonna go back to like the hardcore, like the drinking lunches and all that. I think that's gone.
+
+[42:16] Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. I that was even gone by the time like I was doing things. Like, you know, you'd be like, ooh, you're having a glass of wine or don't. You know what I mean?
+
+[42:23] Like, this I don't think people do it anymore. I don't know. Do they? Nastasi and I once went to a meeting in the middle of the day. Remember this, Daz?
+
+[42:32] Where someone first offered us like whiskey at like noon in their office. And then we're like, no. And they were like, and then they were like, Well, you want to smoke a joint? And we're like, this is a business meeting. Remember that, Stas?
+
+[42:53] That was the best. Yeah. Yeah, that was good stuff. Uh all right. So uh got a question in for you, Sam from Nicholas W.
+
+[43:01] Can't wait to visit your new spots. There's a footnote on the uh New York kimchi menu that says you proudly serve is how is that haiga? Is that pronounced right? Haiga. Haiga?
+
+[43:10] Yeah. Which is semi-milled, right? Semi-brown. Is there anything different other than semi-brown, or is it just semi-brown? And that's the term for semi-brown.
+
+[43:18] Yeah, it's it's it's semi-brown, but it's also just really delicious delicious and has that like slight nuttiness without it being too hard, like brown rice. Yeah. So Nicholas wants to know like where are you source and what led you to the decision of of using that? I mean, it is delicious. I that's what I'd eat at home.
+
+[43:35] Yeah. I don't call it that. I I have I bought that little rice mill. You ever use that? The home rice mill?
+
+[43:39] I I've seen it. Yeah, I've not got it. We don't use that. Um it's it's just tamaki is the tamaki gold, but this is Tamaki Heige uh rice. So that's where we source it from.
+
+[43:50] How much do they mill it? What percentage? Yeah. I think it's like 30. Yeah.
+
+[43:54] And then the do because there's like special like protocols they use to keep the germ on. Is the germ still on this one or not? Yes, the germ. Otherwise it can't be it's not that's not. Oh then it's not because you can mill off and leave a certain amount of the of the the brown on, but like the germ gets knocked off.
+
+[44:11] I look in the bottom of my bucket all the time. I know I've gone too far because I see all like the germ in the in the thing, and I'm like, mm. Right. So I mean so that's that's a that's an interesting thing that we are debating as a restaurant and kitchen. That's like a product product we're proud of serving.
+
+[44:25] We want to be serving, but when people come, specifically Korean guests, they're not used to the dry the dryness, which we like, and they want like that more sushi, sticky rice. Glossy. Yeah. And so we're like, you know what? We pay literally five X for this product than what we could be spending.
+
+[44:45] Right. Why like what's the point? If they don't they don't even want it. And so these are all things that's like, oh, okay. Maybe maybe we don't pay more for these things.
+
+[44:54] Is it is it is it uh what's it called? Is it um because I'm sure a lot of guests who aren't traditional appreciate it. I will be honest, I don't know if people read that. So I'm actually really impressed that Nicholas caught that. Um I don't know if people appreciate it.
+
+[45:11] Huh. I I I think if you're an industry person and you're actually reading the menu and and being present and taking the time to do it, but I'll say maybe 10%, maybe 20% of our guests. Would it be prohibitive to like just keep some traditional around for like I mean, like I mean, just the amount of waste uh in doing that in terms of operations is Can you sell people on a health basic? I mean, I don't believe in health, but like, you know, theoretically it's healthier. I mean, I don't believe in that.
+
+[45:41] But I I just like it. No, I just like it. Okay. I'd like the flavor. It's like I cook, I cook not whole wheat, but I cook I I use only like between 85 and 90% extraction and flour because I like it.
+
+[45:54] Yeah. I don't believe it's healthier, but it helps other people to eat it. So I sure I'm okay with it. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[46:00] But like, does that help with the with the traditionalists where you're like that's why we put that in footnote in there? Because it's like people will ask for brown rice, but like, hey, this is actually a happy medium where you can get, you know, some health benefit, but also the deliciousness. It is texturally better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's good stuff.
+
+[46:18] I mean, it's like I it really kind of is the best of both worlds. I think from a flavor standpoint and a texture standpoint, it's delicious. But is it healthy? Who knows? Who knows?
+
+[46:28] I don't know. You know? Uh so uh I have to ask you this. Uh I hate to ask you this, but do you feel kind of pressured to to make a certain kind of since since Korean fried chicken is such a thing, do you feel pressured to make a specific style of chicken or or or can do you feel like you can do whatever you want? Uh the the form the former because if I'm calling it Korean fried chicken, it needs to have that that crunch, that double fried technique.
+
+[46:59] And we still do whatever we want in terms of how we the the steps to get there, but we can't call it Korean fried chicken unless it has that like glass-like texture, which is very different than southern fried chicken. You ever do like you ever do like a side-by-side, like two styles, like here's American, here's Korean, like like old old sambar used to do? Oh, they did used to do that? I don't remember that. Really?
+
+[47:21] He did like Korean fried next to the Oh actually noodle bar. Oh noodle bar, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think so. Yeah, because I would have, I would have had that, like, I would have had that at Sam when I was, you know, there for all those years.
+
+[47:29] But uh we ever gonna consider doing that? Because like I think it's so funny. Like everyone tries to pretend like there's only like one perfect style of fried chicken. It's just straight wrong. You know what I mean?
+
+[47:43] Collaboration idea. It'll be good, right? Any any Southern fried chicken pros out there? Let's let's do it. Well, the thing is like who does the best roving fried, who does the best roving fried chicken?
+
+[47:53] So what's it called? Uh pies and old school pies and thighs did this. They were they were wet on, they were they were wet. I think they were wet on wet, like almost like a Willie May style. Apparently, someone from Pies and Thighs went to Roberta's.
+
+[48:07] So for a while, Roberta's had that pies and thighs style of fried chicken. If you like that. I haven't had some of the best. There's what are the best American style fried chickens here? Charles Pan fried country chicken.
+
+[48:19] Good. Very good. Yeah, where's where's that out of? Uh up in Harlem. I think there's one on the upper west side now.
+
+[48:25] Yeah, I haven't had really delicious. Yeah. Yeah. Is it is it uh is it dry? Is it dry or is it wet?
+
+[48:32] I don't remember. I went there pre-pandemic and don't remember, but just like huge cast iron pan, just chicken bubbling in there was uh yeah, really tasty. I'm uh I'm uh I'm a dry man. Yeah when I cook my own stuff. So what uh what is your so how do you do your style?
+
+[48:48] You willing to say, or is this like are you gonna be go all bonchon on me and and like you know, punish me for asking? No, no, I got it. Um so we we dry brine our chicken in garlic salt first overnight and then lay it out on sheet trays. So they form nice little dry skin on them. And then we dust it all in cornstarch, and then we put them in a wet battery and then we fry them for about five to six minutes, cool them down, pack them away, and on the pickup, it's a two and a half, three minute pickup.
+
+[49:24] Okay. So on the wet, and here's the thing on any wet, it's it's first of all, does the starch you said corn? What starch you use? In and the wet dry or the or the dry? The before wet.
+
+[49:37] Cornstarch. Okay. So you're in the cornstarch, and how much does that help the adhesion of the wet? And how important is the viscosity of the wet? Both uh yes and yes.
+
+[49:50] Uh it's it's um if you don't do that dry part to get it even drier, it won't stick. And then the viscosity of the way I describe it to the prep cooks is it needs to be like a thin Elmer's glue. Because if it's too thick, it it's it's it's not glass-like. Yeah, yeah. And if it's too thin, it's not glass-like.
+
+[50:11] Right. And it'll run off too, right? If it's too thin. Right. And it's just not crunchy.
+
+[50:15] So do you is there is it starch in it? Is it do you have to keep m stirring it or does it stay pretty good? Okay, because it settles, yes. Yeah. And so the are you which the do you gonna tell me which starch you use in the uh or do you use flour and starch?
+
+[50:28] Yes. Okay. Yeah. There's a bunch of other stuff in there that's just like crazy. Leavening or no leavening?
+
+[50:34] Uh leavening, yes. Yeah, yeah. Do you have to keep it cold or not? Nope. No.
+
+[50:39] Cause some people are worried about when I think that the issue on um I think the issue on keeping it cold. Some people are worried about gluten. I don't know. I think it's also pre like pre-blowing off of some of the leavening in in the in the thing, is I think one of the reasons. So gluten, definitely in tempura.
+
+[50:58] I think it's like a gluten issue and a um and a not functionalizing anything that that's in there while they put the ice cube in. What else why else would it be? You know? But like ice cube though. Yeah, but like you know, you know the old like, you know, you mix it really, you mix it with ice water and then it's like real and you just don't mix it and there's like lumps in it and stuff like that.
+
+[51:16] You know, some of that's gotta be hoo ha. When we do when we do tempura though, different recipe. Yeah. It's we definitely make sure the seltzer is cold. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[51:25] We use seltzer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So but this one doesn't need to be cold, can be room temp. Doesn't need to be cold, no. And it lasts all like how well, first of all, you're pre-doing it, so you can do it all in one big batch.
+
+[51:35] It doesn't have to last forever. We make whenever we do we make the batter when we do the fry. So we don't make we don't get ahead on this. Well, but that's the first fry, no? The first fry.
+
+[51:46] Yeah. But the that oh, so you're you're you're first frying all night. You can't just first fry sandbag it all and then do your second fry. Oh, we do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[51:53] So but the batter doesn't need to last all night. Right. Right? It doesn't need to stay in good shape forever. Right.
+
+[51:58] Uh all right. And then do you do uh do you do coat and then redo? Or like what do you do any coating on it? Any lick like what's the story with the liquid coating? You don't like it?
+
+[52:08] Are you doing it? Liquid coating. You know, like afterward people like gloss it with like liquid stuff and then like have it stay glassy and glossed out, or do you do that or no? I mean, the only liquid coating after that is the sauce. Yeah, we don't do anything to add more crunch.
+
+[52:20] But the sauce you do right after the second fry? And then and then it stays crunchy, it stays glass like? Yes. You put it in a container to go, you put it in your fridge the next day it'll be crunchy. Come on.
+
+[52:32] I'm not joking. Do you what percentage? Well I wish uh for my 30 seconds. Oh, thirty thing. Yeah, bring bring wave.
+
+[52:38] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Come back all the way back up. Because we both live downtown. So how's like so like, how often do you get the uh the the two layers where it's like the skin is sitting above like a like a like a like a glass ceiling and the meat's a little bit below? I for me, uh a good fried chicken, Korean and Southern is like it's adheres.
+
+[52:56] So you it's always one. So you don't like the dough, you don't like that we when like the almost like the the drumstick is rattling around inside of the skin. You seen that? Yes, not for Korean fried chicken. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[53:06] I mean, not if if someone does it, sure, stylistically that's your choice, but not for me. Do you ever do the like the the small chicken hole? You ever you ever do those? Well, when we first created this restaurant, we were taking like little two-pound guys and like doing this same thing and trying that out. And how did it work?
+
+[53:23] So it's too much meat to our batter ratio, and we had such a good thing anyway. And if we felt like wings are much more approachable than uh eating a whole chicken, so we just stuck with what we knew. Do you think it would work with a quail? Yes. Okay.
+
+[53:39] Inside out bone that quail. And then make make like your fried chicken thing with whole quail with no bones. Yeah. Hey Dave, do you remember when we had those those Korean chips? They were the shape of a drumstick?
+
+[53:55] Oh, yeah, those were good. I forget the brand name. When I got back from Seoul, yeah, they were good. I forget the name of that. It was like a seasoning spice, right?
+
+[54:03] It was it taste it was like chicken flavor. Yeah, but they were good. Yeah. Do you know the brand? No.
+
+[54:07] I don't know the brand. But I've had this. I was at uh yeah, the hotel I was working at just gave me all like the what's the brand name of those hyper good Korean uh gummies that have the kiwi with the little seeds on the inside? Is that Orion? Anyway, probably real good.
+
+[54:23] Real good. All right, so uh upstairs, right? So it's all gonna be Golden Hawth. Golden Hoth. Korean bar and steakhouse.
+
+[54:33] Korean bar and steakhouse. But the menus are gonna stay roughly similar. So like upstairs I'm gonna get my steak free, and downstairs I'm gonna get like the more like blown-out experience. Barbecue, crude, steaks. We have a porter house, dry edge porter house.
+
+[54:45] Okay, so talk to me about that. So some people are getting Korean, some people are getting like traditional like table thin slice Korean barbecue stuff, right? And then some people are getting like a big old American steak. Correct. So how do you do your big old American steak?
+
+[54:57] Whose steak are you getting? Are you allowed to say? Like from where? Yeah. So we use we use a couple of different purveyors, but you have to.
+
+[55:06] Main Street meets. We really like Main Street because they I believe they try to source responsibly. Um and and their and their meat is delicious. Um big format, we have a hanger. Uh we just put on a strip, uh ribeye, prime ribeye and uh 30 uh dry age uh porter house.
+
+[55:27] Ribeye, ribeye's god steak. Do you are you a strip person or or a ribeye person? And then we'll discuss ribeye cap. Yeah, yeah. I mean come on, dude.
+
+[55:36] Come on. Yeah. Ribeye cap. Actually, just ribeye, period. Yeah, ribeye's.
+
+[55:40] Sorry. Ribeye. The only like I said this on the air many times. The only time that I is like when it gets really, really fatty, like like A5 Wagyu style, then I like strip. But like like in like regular people meet, like, you know, American style meat.
+
+[55:58] Right, like ribeye all day. All day. All day. Now here's my question. Porter house, very New York, very you have to.
+
+[56:05] Can't be cooked right, right? Like how do what what do you think about the fact that the two sides of the porter house? I'll tell you how we do it. Okay, okay. So we grill the whole thing first from cold.
+
+[56:15] Uh like what percentage of the way through? And are you using a deck? A deck? Deck oven? Like how do you Oh no, like char char char grill.
+
+[56:23] Oh, nice. Yeah. Grill, we grill it, and then uh enough so it gets the marks and the sear. Then we take them then we take the fillet off because we serve it all in the back. I this is why people, anyone out there, are you listening?
+
+[56:39] Any of you who think that somehow it's not manly for someone else to slice your steak, listen, idiot. Like, like this is how Sam is gonna make you a porter house that's properly cooked. Go ahead. Yes. And then we cook the two separately.
+
+[56:51] You're not an idiot. I don't mean to insult you, whoever you are. And I go, you're fine. Anyway, go ahead. And then we and when we um we cook the the strip and the and the fillet separately, just so they're both perfectly cooked.
+
+[57:03] One's still on the bone, one's not, and it's okay. And then once we're done, we get a little dry aged beef fat, and we just uh accentuate for that dry age flavor. Love it. Yeah. Love it.
+
+[57:17] I'm always uh after I cook it, I'm always uh I'm always all olive oil on top. But I don't know why. I just like olive oil. I like olive oil on a steak. I do.
+
+[57:27] I don't love olive oil in the bag when I do low temp, but I do love it on the meat, a nice finishing oil. I think we're getting Captain uh Captain Oily back on at some point to talk olive oil. Oh next week? You know what? We'll have to get him some over to you, get some oil.
+
+[57:43] You could try the oil next to the beef fat. By the way, we have a question in uh about steak, so let's just talk about it. Uh where is it? Uh can you find it, Quinn? Oh, here it is.
+
+[57:55] Anthony C. I saw on YouTube today someone vacuum frying a steak, and it looks good because it has a crazy kind of crust on it. So for those of you, I have not vacuum fried a steak. But a vacuum fryer is what it sounds like. It's you have oil instead of pressure frying, right?
+
+[58:11] So when you're in a pressure fryer, you increase the pressure so that like your chicken, let's say, uh can cook through faster because you can push a higher temperature through the meat faster, right? Uh in a vacuum fryer, you do the opposite. So the inside actually can't get as hot because the steak, the wherever there's water, it can only reach the temperature of the boiling point of water there, right? So by doing that, and if you look at the thing, it kind of rips it apart too, because the steak's gonna start boiling itself to pieces. It's gonna start ripping itself apart.
+
+[58:42] The vacuum fryer was originally invented so that you could fry things at a lower temperature and the sugars in them wouldn't burn. So you could, for instance, fry apple slices until they were crisp without the sugar burning because everything was happening at a lower temperature, right? And it also evaporates water like a mother. Now that's the problem. So if I if you look at their rig that they use in this video, they just have like a copper coil, like there's some sort of moonshiners in like just like a bucket of water, right?
+
+[59:12] And they're using that to recondense all of the steam out of a deep fryer, and he's wondering why his gauge is all messed up. It's because you can't evacuate, you can't. The amount of like stuff you're boiling off in a fryer requires serious vacuum evacuation to actually keep your vacuum at at a good level, which is one of the reasons why I never I never really used vacuum frying. I had one, right? Because the Spanish used to sell one.
+
+[59:35] I think it was called like gastro something. I don't know. They used to sell it. Um but you know, he did get a like a crazy result, and what I hadn't thought about with the crust is that you're gonna evaporate so much water from the outside that you're gonna form up the crust on the outside really quickly and get like a very th like crunchy, thick crust, and that by lowering the temperature, you're gonna get less of an overcooked line between the top and the center, right? So anyway, so it seems like an interesting idea, but they said it was too crunchy and it's definitely gonna ruin the texture.
+
+[1:00:08] You know what I mean? What do you think? We like what do you what's your feeling on how important the crust is, Sam? Super important or not, or like medium important, medio important? Super important, but I'll take like a grill mark, like a char grill flavor over like if like the crust.
+
+[1:00:26] Because the charred a a grill doesn't give as much char that sear as like a pan seared kind of crust. Right, right, right, right, right. But uh, how much do you how much do you try to limit or do you like flare-ups? I don't mind flare-ups, I think they make it taste good. Agreed.
+
+[1:00:41] Yeah. Because some people are all worried about flare-ups. Why? Why? I don't understand it.
+
+[1:00:46] Um I have a thing against uh so not saying anything, but back at the French Culinary Institute, right? They used to love like the quadriage marks that are basically just vestigial grill marks. There's no actual flavor there. It's just like, or like the theory of remember they they used to sell, they probably still sell them cast iron pans that have like the little like fake grill marks uh on them so that you can't cook your meat properly because it can't touch the pan. So it's got the marks of the grill, but not even the taste of the crust on the pan.
+
+[1:01:15] It's like, what's the point of that? What's the point of that? John, have you ever used one of those damn things? No. You've seen them.
+
+[1:01:22] Yeah. Why do they exist? I don't know. Why would they exist? Yeah, I don't know.
+
+[1:01:26] Instagram. Boom. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. They're kind of kind of old school.
+
+[1:01:32] Uh, all right. Uh WTS writes in uh I'm currently reading the book Cool Beans by Joe Yonan. And the book suggests that cooking a pot of beans with a strip of combu will help the digestion of the beans. The logic is that the combu contains alpha uh uh galactic I'm not gonna pronounce it, like uh something that gets rid of the uh stuff that makes you toot the fod maps, which is an enzyme required for breaking down the oleosaccharides. Uh what do you think?
+
+[1:01:53] Um, I tested that. Like you go look up the uh article uh serious eats uh and no, no, it doesn't work. Does make it taste like combu though, which is good. I like combo. Oh, speaking of, uh I read an article, maybe you wrote on Serious Eats that Quest Love.
+
+[1:02:08] You went to a set and like he he like Do you want to talk about that? We have a couple seconds, yeah, zero seconds, but talk about it anyway. Uh this was ten years ago while I was at New York Kimchi writing the business plan for Golden Diner, um I saw Quest Love. It was an amazing set, and here I am ten years later doing a pop-up with it. Well, but really?
+
+[1:02:28] You're doing a pop-up? Oh, we did one. Oh, how did it go? It was amazing. Yeah, so though it's hilarious, it well, what what what struck me was that like you're like it wasn't advertised, so like there was hardly anyone there, and he still gave everything to it, and that is the hospitality mindset, right?
+
+[1:02:42] You gave everything you can, whatever you can. And I kind of want to come hear your playlist. I've never had a playlist situation that I've liked at any of my bars. There's always something wrong. Really?
+
+[1:02:50] Yeah. Sometime we'll come like if you come back on, we'll talk about like like like bar versus bar versus restaurant playlist, what's the difference, like what makes a good playlist? Like making making a playlist that is good for your servers as well and your staff as well as your guests. You know what I mean? So important.
+
+[1:03:06] It's so important. And this is what we should have talked about at the beginning. And I totally forgot until it's already over. But Sam, uh, good to have you on. You're in the neighborhood, so stop by anytime.
+
+[1:03:16] Thank you. I'm gonna come by and try your chicken and your and go. You guys gotta go get that pancake. Just get one. Just get one.
+
+[1:03:22] When you go down to the diner, just get one pancake. Come on, man. Come on. Anyway, thanks for coming on. Cooking issues.
\ No newline at end of file
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cookie New Shoes. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking New Shoes coming to you alive from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City, News Dam Studios joined as usual with John over here. How are you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yeah, I got Joe Hazen rocking the panels behind me.
+
+[0:24] What's up, Joe? Hey, hey, hey, hey, welcome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got Nastasia the Hammer Lopez down there in Los Angeles making fun of us in New York with our hot, hot, hot, humid, humid, sticky sticky New Orleans style stank heat. What's up?
+
+[0:36] I'm here. And then uh we have Jackie Molecules, but he might be Jack Molecules might be on mute still. He'll he'll be here in a minute, though, if he's not here right now. And I'm here, sweet. Hello, hello.
+
+[0:49] All right, all right. And then in the upper left, we got uh Quinn holding down our British Columbian uh contingent. What's up, Quinn? Hey, thank you much. Good, good, good.
+
+[0:58] And today we have friend of the show, Mr. Oil Man, the man with the oil can, Nick Coleman. So today, Nick, this is not a this is not a bansuri. What have you brought today? Oh, this is this is different.
+
+[1:25] Normally I play an Indian Bansuri flute, which is part of the Indian classical music series. But this time I wanted to bring a Native American flute. I see, I see. But like for those that are looking at it, like you don't have to blow across it and make a and make a noise. You can just blow in it like a recorder.
+
+[1:42] But why is this better than a recorder, which everyone knows is the worst instrument that's ever been created. Well, a lot of the recorders are made of cheap plastic, and the mathematics aren't really ideal for the beautiful uh sound. So this is a all natural wood flute, which has just a warmer, uh more organic tone. And from what area of the country is that? I don't know.
+
+[2:03] My mother got it at a powwow. Oh, all right. And what you don't know where she was? No, because she goes to powwows all over the country. But I do know it's in the key of F-sharp.
+
+[2:12] Oh, yeah. And is it tuned to like uh a different tuning system? Does it have a it's like a pentatonic scale classic? You know, if you've ever heard rock and roll, you've heard the pentatonic. Hey, you know what?
+
+[2:25] This is random, but are you interested in uh in like uh old old older music, older Western music? I just was in Nashville because we went down to play Bonnaroo, which got canceled due to historic flooding, and I spent the whole weekend instead of playing the show at Roberts Western World, listening to the best Billy, which is Psycho Billy, Hill Billy, Brazil Billy, etc. And honky tunk. Which is just the coolest genre if you've never seen it live. I mean, like uh honky tongue, no.
+
+[2:56] I mean, uh, I rem I was like relatively young when the whole Reverend Horton Heat, like uh uh what is it? Uh who did uh oh my god, what's the name of that band? I saw a rodeo bar. Anyway, yeah, I used to listen to that stuff. And and my favorite is like Speedy West.
+
+[3:10] I don't know if you know who Speedy West is, but Google that the guy's played on like 4,000 recordings. He's like the Jimi Hendrix of pedal steel from like the 50s and stuff. Oh, that's earlier, earlier than like the 90s, like like when you because when I think psychobilly, I think Horton Heat and up. You know what I mean? Like I think like the cramps.
+
+[3:27] Okay. Or like some kind of punk psycho billy. It's this it's it's a the genre of Billy is wildly misunderstood. Any form of Billy? And we don't have it here in New York City.
+
+[3:37] There's no serious Billy centric areas, but Nashville kind of owns it. And and I was blown away. If you're ever there, go to Robert's Western World. Get the fried bologna sandwich with Pabst for $5.95. I don't need the Pabst.
+
+[3:51] And nothing but Billy. Yeah. All right. Incredible establishment. You can also buy a cowboy.
+
+[4:00] It shades into bluegrass, country, folk, hillbilly, uh, psychobilly, honky tonk. And and on that strip, there's all this kind of there's a lot of like lame pop cover bands, and Robert's Western World gives you like the real deal. It's like the small jazz club of Nashville. Nastasia prefers a lame cover band because why would she want to hear someone's crappy news song if they're a bad songwriter? At least that's what Nastasia said to me.
+
+[4:28] She might not believe that anymore. She's like, if you're not gonna be a great songwriter, why would I want to hear your song? Why don't you just play somebody else's good song? You've said it to me, Stas. Is this incorrect or not?
+
+[4:36] Correct. Is it accurate? Yeah. Oh my god. Yes, Nastasia and I were at this bar in Hong Kong.
+
+[4:44] Where were those people from who were being such chodes? That's true. Remember that big call in Hong Kong? Maybe. So like, like there was like a they were a decent house band, right?
+
+[4:55] And these these folks just kept on like asking them to play stuff that wasn't in their repertoire. I'm like, just shut up. Let them play what they're good at. Ding ding. Like, shut up and let them play.
+
+[5:08] So Stas and I just bought bought the band around to drinks, and we're like, sorry. You know what I mean? Like I kind of wish there was a larger forum for bad music. What do you mean? Bad music.
+
+[5:22] Not mediocre music. Let's let's eliminate mediocre music. Give me great music or give me real amateur, like a seventh grade rock concert. Like BJ Snowden? Oh, Canada.
+
+[5:34] You know that song? No. But BJ Snowden's like uh Canada is hardcore. Yeah, BJ Snowden, check it out. We need bad there should be more bad music available because it's fun and it's funny to listen to bad music.
+
+[5:47] Well, I don't know, but like you can't be punching down. If someone's like, you know, especially as a professional musician yourself, you don't want to punch, you don't want to be making fun of people because they suck. I'm not it's not a making fun of, it's actually a genuine enjoyment of their terribleness. It's it's funny. So where do you put Wesley Willis?
+
+[6:05] Because I actually enjoy Wesley Willis. I have many Wesley Willis vines. But I legitimately like Wesley Willis because I love him. I'm not like making fun of the phone. I legitimately like it.
+
+[6:19] It's kind of like that honky tonk. That like dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun. His lyrics. Cut that mullet. Get out the hair clippers, jerk.
+
+[6:31] I love that stuff. You know what you'd love, Nick, is going to see um sorry, real quick. What you'd love is seeing uh cumbia bands in Mexico. That's exactly like Mexico's. I love that stuff.
+
+[6:42] It's infectious. Hold on. What about it? Let's talk about good and bad food. Great food thing.
+
+[6:50] I hear you. I was gonna go off topic because it's also our primary day, which is some crazy stuff, but we won't later. If we have time, later, later, later. Uh so what do we have this week in in terms of food? What do you guys have for me?
+
+[7:01] Um are you talking to me? Anyone. It's open, it's open mic right now. I just had white bear dumplings. You know about the white bear wontons.
+
+[7:09] You order number six and flushing Queens made by a grandmother. So what makes them what does the bear have to do with it? And what does a white bear have to do with it, and what's the deal with these particular items as opposed to anyone else's said thing? Um, this is like it's like almost like a window where you order the wontons, the spicy wontons, which it's not actually spicy. It's the most subtle ephemeral spiced wonton in this beautiful red oil that is uh but they're dry in oil, it's not soup?
+
+[7:39] It is not soup, but it is sauced with this oil and these these chilies, but it's super delicate, and it's a very, very thin wrapping, like paper wrapping. And they're just some of the best dumplings I've ever had in my entire life. First of all, like Flushing Queens is the real Chinatown of New York City. Oh, hold on. Like it is a great Chinatown.
+
+[8:00] There's more there's so many Chinatowns in New York City. The the largest population is flushing, it's not in Manhattan. Yeah, because the largest population of everything is outside of Manhattan. There's value in it. We're a tiny island.
+
+[8:11] But like, listen, like we have we have the Fukinese like Chinatown, like over near where I am. You know what I mean? Like we had there's like Sunset, you know what I mean? Park, isn't that right? Is that is like there's that China?
+
+[8:22] Is that Sun? What's the what's the one near uh Caluccio Brothers, the one that's near Industry City? There's a Chinatown near there. Is that sunset? I feel I don't know what our neighborhoods are called.
+
+[8:31] Then there's flushing. I mean, there's so many different like flushing is hardcore. Anyway, what makes these wontons better than let's say I'm not repping Wu's wonton king? They just happen to be on my block. I think they're made by a grandmother, like one by one by this grandmother.
+
+[8:45] They're just exceptional. You know, it's beyond what I can explain. How long till she dies? How long do we have? I don't know.
+
+[8:51] You better get there quick. White bear. White bear? All right. So, you know, when Stas and I have visited, you know, like super old people like food, it's been expensive and a problem.
+
+[9:01] Jiro. I'm thinking of Jiro. You know what I mean? Not worth it. This is $10 for a large tray of dumplings.
+
+[9:08] I mean, I just get them and I eat them in the car and then I drive off. And what what about the like is the stuffing important or not? Yeah, it's delicious. But it's all, it's not over. Sometimes dumplings they they put too much seasoning in it, and after three or four, you've kind of had enough.
+
+[9:24] This is everything about it's like delicate for the palate of like an 85-year-old grandmother. I see, I see. What is like give me your power ranking on on dumpling styles? I'm not counting spatzels. I'm talking like, you know, like the like dumplings you might get in Chinatown.
+
+[9:41] Give me your power ranking styles. Soup dumplings are at the top of the list. But I have a very Because you like burning your mouth. I have a technique of that, and I know how to solve that. Okay.
+
+[9:48] So you get the soup dumpling. Right. You bite the top nipple off. Okay. You then suck that juice out.
+
+[9:56] You then replace that juice with one of the sauces that are on the table, which cools off the inner dumpling, and then you pop that in your mouth. So it's like a four-step process to eat one dumpling. I mean, let me say this. I like soup dumplings. But everyone puts them at the top of their power ranking, and I don't know that they're the world.
+
+[10:14] I mean You're not you're not refilling them with the sauces available. But like I could put sauce on any dumpling. Not in it. Hey, what about you guys? Where like on on the on the rest of the crew, the the West Coast crew, what do you got?
+
+[10:28] What are you guys thinking in terms of dumplings? Are you guys also soup dumpling people as your highest form of dumpling? Yeah. I love them. Yeah, they're great.
+
+[10:36] I'm not saying they're bad. There's different techniques to eat them, and everyone has their own approach. I like to refill with one of the many sauces on the table. I haven't thought of that. That's a great idea.
+
+[10:47] Yeah. Yeah. It's a really good technique. I almost always prefer like a filled steamed bun. I like a filled steamed bun.
+
+[10:56] Thick dough. I like a thick dough. Like I'm anti-Nastasi in this way who likes minimum masa in her tamales and maximum filling. I enjoy the steamed dough because the steamed dough soaks up the intense amount of chili oil that I try to get into every single thing that I eat. You know what I mean?
+
+[11:16] Are you a spice or are you a race for heat kind of guy? You're just racing for the hottest. No, not the hottest, but like I eat huge amounts of chili, but just I don't search for the spiciest version of it. I just like the flavor of it. Yeah.
+
+[11:33] You know what I mean? The flavor's exciting. I think that when people are just trying to get the spiciest, it feels like a pointless endeavor sometimes. Right. But for instance, like most of the chili products you can eat straight.
+
+[11:45] Like chili crisp, you could eat straight. It's just not that hot. You know what I mean? Love that stuff. By the way, we had a note uh came in from uh one of our listeners to the Utica grind, the double cut chili flakes, and that is God's answer for for crushed chili for for Italian-style crushed chili.
+
+[12:01] God wants us to all have the Utica grind, double cut flakes. They, just as he said, perfect coat. Like, and like Nastasi and I, when we used to go to Roberta's, like, that was where I first developed my I I actually I had it my whole life. My hatred of uh chili flakes shakers at pizza joints. Because they're designed by an a-hole.
+
+[12:26] You know what I mean? The ones with slats are okay, but the ones with the dots just punch me. Unacceptable. They don't work. Why not, you know, why not just try to shake a Volkswagen bug through the shaker?
+
+[12:36] It's the same same same amount you get out. So I always unscrew them and then just like put it off. But like these double cuts would actually go through a shaker. You could actually effectively shake. So maybe the shaker was invented by someone in Utica who's used to the double cut.
+
+[12:50] Who knows? But anyway, they're a huge win. We're really connecting the dots. Yeah. Uh so anyway, I do like a steam bun.
+
+[12:57] I even like non-savory ones. Like I love, I love the the scorching hot, like uh egg yolk, like uh the the hot egg salted egg yolk buns. You have a different style than me. Like I would put a uh proper pan-fried gioza over that type of bun. Oh man.
+
+[13:13] But I have to say, most people they want like the charse style buns. Those aren't my favorite of the steamed bun ones. I think isn't there a lot, like an abnormal amount of sugar in those buns? I believe there is. You don't think it and you don't notice it, but like I think if you try to make them yourself, it's like so much sugar in those steam buns.
+
+[13:32] Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're delicious. So, what's your favorite, yeah? Sorry. Yeah.
+
+[13:38] It's like a sugar-based sauce. Yeah. I made like charcoal sauce from scratch. It's very sugary. Good.
+
+[13:47] Not my favorite. Good, not my favorite. What's your favorite when you go to a standard low-end takeout place? The meats that are hanging in the front, what's your favorite of those? Low end takeout.
+
+[14:00] What do you mean low-end takeout? Like a regular, like inexpensive, non-fancy Chinese takeout place in New York City, and they have like the ducks, the pork, and the pig hanging in the front. What's your go-to? I go to a place in Queens called it's a Chinese Peruvian barbecue place. All right.
+
+[14:20] And they have these ribs there that are just to die for. Yeah. My mine is the pig. I love the roast pig. Not the roast pork, the roast pig with the hypercrackling skin.
+
+[14:31] Yeah. And it's served lukewarm with like soy and chili sauce. And you just sit there eating on the crunchy room temperature roast pig. That's my that's my go-to. When someone's like, you want to go to this one?
+
+[14:46] I'm like, do they have the roast pig? Then yes. That's it. You know? I I was in France.
+
+[14:51] They they kept talking about baby pig, baby pig, baby pig. You know about this? I know the Spanish. I know Spanish baby pigs, but I don't know what the French know about it. Yeah, they're just oh, everything they kept mentioning like the baby pig.
+
+[15:03] Have you had the tiny baby pigs in Madrid? No. Ridiculous. The baby pig fits on a plate. When they say baby, it's not like here where you're like, I'm gonna get a suckling pig, and they're like, how much is it weigh?
+
+[15:14] 20 pounds. Suck it. It's not it's like you know what I mean? It's like, come on. You know what I mean?
+
+[15:18] Like in Madrid, they're like legitimate tiny baby pigs. Skin's so crispy. Yeah, so good. Yeah, they they claim they're they they're the best. Wait, the French?
+
+[15:29] What do the French know about it? I don't know. They know about as much about that as they know about cooking rice or pasta. Yeah. Anyway, no offense, we love the French.
+
+[15:36] I mean, I know John loves the French. Yep. Have they heard of El Dente? Wow. You know what's funny?
+
+[15:42] I forget it was uh, was it Jeremy Umansky was on when he was uh doing the rich she thing, and he uses he uses like a French restaurant cooking rice in the oven technique in a giant pan, and he swears by it. Have any of you ever done that? Yeah, back in the day, I did it at one of my places. How bad was it? It was actually pretty easy.
+
+[15:59] But how was the rice? Oh, not terrible. That's what you're aiming for, not terrible. Hey, John, how's your rice? Oh, it's not as bad as you're making it out to be.
+
+[16:12] I mean, like I have a I have a Jeremy. Jeremy's feeding fungus, not people. So I think they're less picky. Okay. I'm just I was just surprised to hear like someone come out with like the I don't know.
+
+[16:25] Of course, then everyone says I'm a uh, you know, I'm a loop, you know, I only do rice cookers because I made cooking rice actually makes me nervous. Like doing a good job cooking rice makes me the whole finger joint thing that uh JJ was saying that you know I have to like get okay with. I was like, I can't, I can't bring myself to there's so many variables. Like when I look at that and I look at my finger and I look at a pot and I see different widths of pot and different heights of pot and different amounts of rice. I'm like, no, I can't.
+
+[16:50] I can't do it. You know what I mean? No, I find it very easy and forgiving. I can't, I can't. Mentally, it's like rice with seaweed.
+
+[16:58] You get really nice seaweed and just rice on the seaweed and that salty crispy seaweed and the warm rice. What are you talking about like a Nori style situation, a straight eater? I was g I was given by this Korean olive oil expert. He I I talked to him and did some consulting, and he sent me this box of this incredible seaweed, and they come in these little packets. It's maybe 10 pieces of seaweed per pack, and you open it and just but sheets, Nori style.
+
+[17:23] Sheets, yes. Yeah, yeah. Delicious with just plain rice. That's all you need. No sauce, nothing.
+
+[17:28] Outstanding. Okay. And you bring them in next time. Uh so uh last week was my anniversary. I cooked nothing on my anniversary because instead I had to deal with a major flood.
+
+[17:40] The guy next to me, he moved to a nursing home. And uh so I was gonna talk about all the great stuff that he moved to a nursing home and the people uh who were cleaning his apartment out because he was a hoarder and had chronic migraines, so like all the windows were blacked out with trash bags and trash bags covering everything. There was a water shut off that day, so they went in, turned on the water taps, got nothing, and then walked out. Left the water taps on, everything overflowed. It was like a giant river in into my house.
+
+[18:07] So I didn't really get to cook much. So it's kind of an unfortunate. I'm so sorry. It's all right. What were you going to cook?
+
+[18:14] I was gonna cook like stuff that we it either that I used to make, stuff that I've so over the 30 years of marriage, there are things that I used to make a lot, and I was gonna bring that back. So, like uh salt and boca, which is, you know, which we first had on our honeymoon, which is great. And like if you don't make it with veal, you can make it with chicken. It's very easy. Nowadays, what I do is is I get multiple cutlets, pound them out thin, salt, salt, sugar, salt, sugar, pepper, tiny bit of sugar, not a lot, don't make it sweet.
+
+[18:40] Pound them out real thin, then I meat glue it, I put the sage on, and then lay the I lay the prosciutto over the sage with the meat glue, then vac it down to have a meat glue set, and then I don't have to use any toothpicks or skewers to keep the the prosciutto on when I'm flipping it about. I also I don't have Marcella in the house, so I use cream sherry. Don't get mad at me. Anyway, so then I was gonna make that, you know what I mean? Because I always make that uh and a little flour, obviously, before you.
+
+[19:07] I don't put the flour on before I vac it because I can flour it right beforehand. I don't want it to get gummy. Anyway, and then I was gonna I used to make this crab pineapple salad with fish sauce in it. So, like I I'm a huge believer in these. Uh, do you guys use these uh honey grow uh what's it called?
+
+[19:25] Honey, not honey grow, honey something pineapples that are new, these new ones. Have you had these honey something? Oh, honey glow, I think they're called Honey Glow. Yeah. They are so you know the problem with pineapples, right?
+
+[19:37] Pineapples, when so when you look at a pineapple, right? Everyone here, I hope, everyone who can hear me knows that trying to pull a leaf out of the base of a pineapple thing is not an accurate indicator of anything. It has no meaning, right? In general, like the best you can get is like sniffing the base of the pineapple to see kind of how aromatic it is. However, pineapples ripen from the base towards the crown.
+
+[20:01] And if you live where they grow pineapples, you can wait for the pineapples to yellow up, right? And but you can't do that if you ship because they get soft and they go bad really, really quickly. So if you look at most pineapples, they're basically green from the base to the top. Maybe there's a little yellowing around the bottom, but by the you get to the top of the pineapple, it's green. So this honey, whatever what is it?
+
+[20:23] Honey what? Honey glow. Honey glow. Not the pink ones. I think they're trash.
+
+[20:27] I'd stay away from the pink pineapples. They're low in acid. I believe they are a trash can product, especially because they cost more. They look cool, and that's about it. Those are the most shockingly disappointing pineapple I'd ever spent money on was the pink one.
+
+[20:41] But these ones, the I don't know whether they're GMO'd or whether it was just they found these pineapples that they can allow to ripen until it so that there's all quite a bit of yellow on the outside of the pineapple. They look ripe from the outside, but they don't get soft, so you can ship them. So we get all of these pineapples now in New York, of this variety where they taste like a pineapple. And so, like it used to be like you'd buy a pineapple, and maybe the stuff near the base tasted good, but the stuff at the top was fundamentally just an acid bomb, like you know, a worthless acid bomb, which is why I would get really mad at people when they would cut pineapple garnish and they would cut it in such a way that some people were getting from the top of the pineapple and some people were getting from the bottom of the pineapple. But these ones are much more uniform and can be picked much riper.
+
+[21:29] So I think they're an old even if they you know cause some sort of like minor catastrophe somewhere, I think that they're worth it. They're a good pineapple. I'm gonna co-sign these as a pineapple. Anyway, uh so that with crab, uh, and then I was just gonna make a variant on a uh on a chocolate dessert that I used to make for Virgin a lot. But it all got tossed because instead we were ripping up all of our carpets and and mopping up floors.
+
+[22:00] Awesome. Do you remember the first food you ate with your wife? Like first date, first food? Uh I remember the first thing I did it was food related, which was actually not smart. This was before we were going out.
+
+[22:11] She was a freshman counselor, and I borrowed a blender from one of her freshmen and returned it not cleaned enough. The worst. And then, you know, I would how is it this was in the 90s? This was like 1991. So, like, you know, things like biscuits and learning how to dip strawberries in chocolate, you know what I mean?
+
+[22:32] And like giving her chocolate-coated strawberries back when that was, you know, back fondue craze of 91. Yeah, well, you know who likes a fondue? The Lopez. The hammer lopez. The hammer.
+
+[22:43] The hammer likes a fondue from her from her Swiss times, Swiss times. But she she's her chocolate. Oh. Both. What about in combination though?
+
+[22:54] What about just a boiling pot of oil style fondue? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's something that's not going to come back so dangerous. So awesome.
+
+[22:59] Just put a pesterno and oil on the table. Never gonna come back. Hey Dave, what's your what's up with your aversion to Marsala? What? What's up with your aversion to Marsala?
+
+[23:13] I just don't have it in the house at all times. I always have cream sherry in the house because my mom used Harvey's Bristol Cream Sherry in cooking when I was growing up. And so like I just, in order to like, it's like a a bridge to my mom's cooking, is that I always have Harvey's bristle cream sherry in my house. And the cake that she used to make, she would dump Harvey's bristle cream sherry in it. So for me, it's like a flavor that I enjoy.
+
+[23:37] And I'm gonna go ahead and say, not a bad product. People like like hate on it because it's day class A, but not a bad product. Harvey's bristle cream, not a bad product. Has that flavor that I'm looking for. You know what I mean?
+
+[23:50] Anyway. I don't know that specific thing. Yeah. I like Marcello though. It's fine.
+
+[23:55] It's good. I'm not anti-Marcello. Uh oh, one other thing I said I was gonna say. I was gonna go try to buy up because there's a couple cheap ones on eBay now, but I'm not. So I'm gonna just tell you what my so my ice maker broke, right?
+
+[24:09] I do not recommend that people buy ice makers, commercial non freezer ice makers for their house because they're just amazingly wasteful. It's nice having ice that's clear, right? But they're just intensely wasteful and loud. And they they waste electricity, they waste water because they don't keep the ice, they the ice is always melting and making, always melting and making. So they're they are a luxury that I think is not necessarily a smart luxury to have in a household situation.
+
+[24:37] I think just get a decent freezer ice maker and a couple of clear ice cube things if you need to do that. That's the way. But uh so mine finally it didn't die, but it started leaking, and and when I repaired one leak, a different leak started. So my wife hates the noise, and it so we ripped it out. So I needed a new solution for chilling seltzer and uh and flat water.
+
+[25:01] So uh I bought so the the way I thought I was gonna go was something called an ice bank. You guys familiar with ice banks, ice bank machines? So flash chillers slash ice banks. The whole point of chilling a drink is that it takes a lot of wattage to chill a drink from room temperature to cold if you have to do it instantaneously at the pull of a lever. That's a lot of wattage.
+
+[25:23] So the way cold plates work, the way ice banks work is that when you're not using them, they freeze ice, which is incredibly powerful. And then as you pull the drink, ice melts and very quickly chills your drink without having to have an immense burst of power right away. Okay, they're great, right? That's the way. But um I actually tried something that's a little different.
+
+[25:47] I bought this thing called Linder, which I think they're Czech, L-I-N-D-R, and the one I got is their smallest one, pygmy, P Y G M Y. And what that is, is is you screw taps on the front of it, right? And I got it for like 200 bucks on eBay, right? It's like I think it's like a $1,200 item. I got it for two, but what they do instead of uh instead of doing an ice bank, they just have a giant aluminum block with a thin tube in it and they chill the block down.
+
+[26:15] So you can pull a whole glass of seltzer and it's cold. You can pull two glasses of seltzer and it's kind of cold. But if you wait three minutes in between those poles, then it's all cold, right? So in my house, where most of the time I don't need to pour a thousand seltzers in a row and I can wait a couple of minutes between glasses, this is a great solution. One problem with it.
+
+[26:41] The fan in it is so loud. Everyone buys crappy fans. But the good news is it's a standard like uh 120 volt, like uh 120 millimeter AC muffin fan. So I just went on Amazon and bought a cheap silent fan, put that in now, good. And it uses much less electricity, much less space, you know, than my icemaker did.
+
+[27:07] So that's my that's my solution until I can afford the ice banks are also loud because they have circulator pumps in them. So you can silence an ice bank, but I don't know. This was this was the route I went. So for anyone who is keeping track of seltzer crap. All right, what else you guys got this week?
+
+[27:22] You had you had uh what's it called? Dumplings. What about you? Quinn, do you cook anything? You feeling better enough to be uh doing uh Quinn style stuff?
+
+[27:30] Well, my uh my dad uh was busy last week, shortly after last week's show on Tuesday, uh he picked up a full side of pig. So we've spent the whole week uh processing that. Also, I'm trying to do some mental calculations. So assuming the pig started at 220 pounds and you got what kind of yield? So how many, how much did this side 220?
+
+[28:03] Well, so what's a side weigh like 60 pounds? The side was the side was 80. 80 pounds, okay. So, and like uh like including the head or was the head taken off. Yeah, I have the head.
+
+[28:18] Yeah. Nice, nice. Who gets the brain? Who gets the brains? Actually, I think they may have taken they may have taken the brains out.
+
+[28:27] I don't need brains anymore anyway. They're good. But I don't even say brains in French. It's a good word in French. Saved.
+
+[28:32] It's nice. Yeah. Yeah. Uh all right. So uh what what do you what are you gonna do with two feet?
+
+[28:42] Um I believe yeah, right now the feet or no, they may have already been used for a stalk. My dad made a stalk the other day. Okay. I mean, I get that, but the next time you get some feet in, I would highly recommend, even though it's not the time of year, once in your life do the zampone. Once in your life, make the zampone.
+
+[29:04] So you inside out bone the foot, and then you stuff the foot with cotaquino mix and you sew it back up, and then you cook it in a broth and you serve it with lentils traditionally at New Year's time. But once in your life you should do it. Breaking down this fig was, you know, some parts were a bit of a hack job. I mean, yeah, my dad literally, right? You use an axe off work.
+
+[29:34] Yep, yeah, we did. But you know, the only way, because again, the book the processor was going to freeze everything, but I insisted on getting it like refrigerated fresh, because I wanted to do a bunch of projects and then you know, maybe freeze leftovers. So the only way we could get it fresh was if they left the entire side in three big pieces. Yeah. Hey, you know what I've always kind of wanted to do?
+
+[30:13] You know how they used to call the sides like like you know how in England you would have like bacon would be the entire side of the pig cured, right? A flitch, an entire flitch of bacon. I've always kind of wanted to see one of those and just kind of like hack chunks of that off and eat on it. Whatever. It'll never happen.
+
+[30:32] Never gonna it's never gonna be my life. I'm gonna be living in the lower east side probably until until they put me into the dirt. In which case, they're not gonna put me to dirt anyway. That's gonna light me on fire and sprinkle me over something. Probably.
+
+[30:43] That's so sad. Yeah, hey, what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? You know what I mean? Wait, what do any of you guys want to be put into the dirt, or are you just gonna get like shot in the space or whatever?
+
+[30:55] I mean our ideal way. I mean, I don't really care what happens to me after I'm gone. Um that's how I feel. I'm indifferent. Yeah, it's pretty irrelevant to you.
+
+[31:07] Yes, true, true. All right. So LA contingent, what do you got for food before we get into get into the grease works? I went to Thunderbolt and I got a bunch of canned cocktails to bring to my gay German pool party. And how'd that go?
+
+[31:25] Weasels Germans. Was it German wine? No, no, it was uh whatever people brought. Yellowtail? What kind of people are these?
+
+[31:37] Like uh creative like Hollywood people. Oh, so was it like Rieslings and Governor, you know what I'm trying to figure out what they were drinking. I'm trying to get a vibe on the wines that people brought. A lot of sparkling wine, a lot of rose. No Govertz demeanor?
+
+[31:52] Yeah, right. Yeah. What kind of sparklings? Are we talking like freaking prosecco? Was it a proseco parade?
+
+[31:56] Is it like what was it? Was it like, you know, like oceans of Mianetta? What what was going on here? There was a lot of proseco, yeah. And a lot of natural pet nap, all that crap that you get here.
+
+[32:08] I mean you get that here too. But yeah, I I understand I understand what you mean. So what percentage of the so what did you drink? Did you drink cocktails or you drank sparkling wine? Because I know you.
+
+[32:18] I drank sparkling wine. Yeah, of course you did. Of course you did. But did you try to find the least because you're did was it was any of the sparkling wine what you would normally drink, i.e. pink champagne?
+
+[32:31] No, there was no pink champagne, but I drank the the natural sparkling stuff. Okay. And and was it overtly flawed or was it good? It was great. Oh, nice, nice.
+
+[32:42] That's my rule for wine. I prefer no overt flaws, which is kind of how you are with olive oil, right? You prefer no overt flaws. Why should there be an overt flaw? Unless it's the fruit et noir, which is the Provenceal style where they self-induce the defect of fusty into it using early harvest clean olives.
+
+[33:02] Which someday you're gonna bring. We we haven't tried that yet. No. Okay, I'll bring that. Yeah.
+
+[33:07] Really interesting style. It's like where you want the taste of cured table olives in your food without the texture or the visual representation. Yeah, I mean, you know that as an American I like that flavor. Yeah, we love that. We love these briny kind of things.
+
+[33:22] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh well uh all right. All right, Jack, you haven't gotten it. You haven't gotten your food in for the for the week. Are you back on the food now?
+
+[33:29] Is your tooth still hosed? You still on Pablum. It's you want to so I it's it's been not great, and then last night I had a tortilla chip that just punctured the thing again. It was just like insult to injury. Yeah, or sounds like injury to insult.
+
+[33:51] Or injury to inju injury to insult. Yeah. Injury to insult, yes. Yeah, the bloody tortilla incident sounds like wait, eating that's where you had your tortilla chip. No, no, no, no, no.
+
+[34:04] No, I just had a cocktail. Why would a tortilla chip be like tortilla chips, even like in the best of teeth, can jam you wrong sometimes. Why would you start with a tortilla? Why didn't you go like soft tortilla? Some sort of like some sort of tamale situation.
+
+[34:23] And um Yeah, I know. I know. Let me ask you a question. Yeah. Why are burritos?
+
+[34:28] Why are burritos the thing and not enchiladas, which are a superior device? Why does no one get enchiladas anymore? The portability. You can't, you can you can't pick up, yeah. You can't pick up an enchilada.
+
+[34:41] And you can't pick up a California-style burrito either, because it's the size of your head and it's full of rice for some unknown reason. You know what I mean? It's like that's not true. That's not true. What do you mean?
+
+[34:51] You can get all kinds of things. Yeah, that's not true. All right. That's not true. I mean, like the burritos, like down like, you know, Juarez, those you could pick up.
+
+[35:00] You know what I mean? Like, like, I don't know. What we in New York call a California-style burrito is giant. It's what Brittany Spears said. Well, yeah, that's but that's not a real California burrito.
+
+[35:12] Give me more. Oh, yeah. It's the Britney Spears effect. It's just how big can you get a burrito where you go to places and you keep adding the little toppings, and then they can't even fit it in the burrito, and they have to have the second tortilla in order to close it and put it in the middle. Instead of just making two smaller ones, which is the correct answer.
+
+[35:30] Make two smaller ones. Now, what about the chimichanga? You know, it's it's it's heavy. Or the chilupa. Well, so my idea, and I think I've said it on air.
+
+[35:43] This was this was my brilliant idea. My my this is at least a $10,000 idea. It's called the semi-changa. So you take your burrito and you fry exactly half of it so that you can pick it up like an ice cream cone and then eat the soft top and then eat the bottom like a cone. Love it.
+
+[36:00] Love that idea. Semi-changa. Um the last time I had a chimichanga. I mean, how much money am I gonna make on semi-chongas? Welcome to our business.
+
+[36:15] Hey Dave, back to what you said about the Pablum. Pablum was what is that? The what you what you fed like protozoas or it's just you know, like stand in for anything tasteless and textureless. It's just like zero. It's like nothing.
+
+[36:29] But did you didn't you like like in school, like in biology class? Didn't you feed Pablum to like crickets or something like that? I don't know. And maybe there's something up, but like for me, it's Pablum is anything that is without taste or texture, it's just nothing. You know what I mean?
+
+[36:43] Like, just like gruel. Oh, I love gruel, like ribbolita. No, rippolita's not gruel. There's other stuff in it. But it's the texture is just it's half digested.
+
+[36:54] That's like calling kanji gruel. Conji is not gruel. Do you uh do you like uh are you one of those people who likes uh salt, salted, pre-salted kanji? Um I'm not a big kanji guy. What?
+
+[37:08] You don't like kanji? I I don't have enough experience with kanji. Oh, it's good. I've eaten more brains than kanji. What?
+
+[37:16] Yeah, I eat Egyptian brains at kebab cafe in Astoria on Steinway Street. We have a whole village devoted to kanji down by me. Like kanji village. Yeah. It's actually not a village, it's it's one restaurant.
+
+[37:28] But it's yeah, it's right there. It's my favorite thing. It's packed, too. It's my yeah, it's my favorite thing to eat the hell out of when I'm in a hotel in China. I love like mainland China, like big hot like business hotel breakfasts.
+
+[37:47] Like the the buffets, I've been to a bunch of them. I love them. Love them. My favorite. I remember my favorite hotel breakfast.
+
+[37:57] I was in Shanghai and it felt like I was eating dinner at breakfast. It was kind of exciting. I loved it. It wasn't breakfast food. I mean, the kanji is breakfast food.
+
+[38:05] Yeah, but it is, yeah. I mean, like of all, I mean, I've been to some, you know, been to a bunch of places, but like if someone's like, oh, I've had excellent water pressure situations in Chinese hotels, amazing water pressure situations, and really good, you know, breakfast buffets. What's the worst? Who who has the worst breakfast buffets? Um most hotels.
+
+[38:28] Like Holiday Inn, yeah, I don't know. I don't think Holiday Inn even offers a breakfast buffer. They offer something that's do you like do you like when they have the waffles that you can make your own, but like the waffle iron's not great and the batter's bad? Or do you not like that? They're at least fresh.
+
+[38:44] That's that's their motto, right? At least it's fresh. No? Do you like the the person who like elbows you so that they can get to the that thing first? Have you seen the automatic pancake makers?
+
+[38:55] I love that waffle. You like that waffle? Nice. I like that. I love that waffle.
+
+[39:00] I love any breakfast to say, doesn't matter how crappy it is. Really? Have you seen the pancake maker with a conveyor belt? No. At the at certain hotels, yeah, they have it like dollops out.
+
+[39:10] Yeah, those are cool. I like those. Dollops out like the pancake batter on this conveyor belt. And I guess it gets like heated from above and below, and then it just slowly cooked on Teflon and then dropped. Basically, and you can watch it as it cooks, so it's super cool.
+
+[39:23] Yeah. Here's something that's not good for the toaster, but good for everything else. When you have a situation where there's a conveyor toaster, put cookies on it. Like cookie, like even a mediocre cookie, once thrown onto a conveyor toaster becomes a good cookie. Absolutely.
+
+[39:40] No, a bit a baked cookie. You take a cookie that is otherwise okay, you stick it on a conveyor toaster, it warms and becomes pliable again, and all of a sudden it's delicious. I have a cookie. Good idea for the Tate's cookies. Oh, you know, I've never had a taste cookie.
+
+[39:56] They are great when they're like two days open bagged. Huh? Yeah, really crispy, clean. They're they're very nice. All right.
+
+[40:05] I I like to eat the I'd like to take three cookies. Um, if they're fresh and warm, eat the outside of them and then take the three centers and squish them in a napkin and then get this mother cookie. Mother cookie, cookie mother. This is your next band. Anyway, uh all right.
+
+[40:22] Let me see. Uh here's a question from Rock Baker. There's been a good thread in the Discord this week about burgers. What's the best blend? What component adds the most flavor, et cetera.
+
+[40:29] I'd like to hear the pod team's opinions. I think the best beef, obviously, is uh Edward's Age Meats, unfortunately named beef crack, is my favorite mix to use. I don't know what he puts into it. But it is deleted. You've had that, right, John?
+
+[40:41] Yeah, it's very good. It's a good mix. It is. He's gonna be on the show soon. Yeah.
+
+[40:44] Yeah. But so what do you what are your general burger thoughts? To me, it's almost impossible to say. To me, like a burger is a big enough category that it's almost impossible to say what's good and what's bad. You know what I mean?
+
+[40:56] Like depends on how thick you're making it, depends on how it's being cooked. I I have uh I have uh my favorite way I make a burger at home of the things I put in the burger meat at home. Do you put something other than meat into your burger meat? Because in which case I'm gonna have a situation. I do.
+
+[41:12] It's some might say it's a sausage. Um garlic, green chili, and fish sauce is a great trifecta inside a burger. I like fish sauce on a burger. Because it it uh it like makes it beefier tasting. I like fish sauce.
+
+[41:28] I don't put it on everything, but because like everyone's like, why are you doing that? But I like it on many things. I put it in the meat. Garage. The problem with that is it's gonna, it's gonna, it's gonna start the pro you can't put salt on the inside of the meat.
+
+[41:40] Can you do like a fish bouillon? It's gonna turn more uh wait, fish? Yeah. You could. The the main issue is is that if you add salt, right, you're going to be uh extracting stuff out of the protein.
+
+[41:55] It's gonna become more like a meatloaf, it's gonna become more like a meat ball, it's gonna more firmly bind. So you're never salting the meat, even if you got a ripping cast iron skillet, you're going 80% cooked on the first side down. You're still not gonna salt the meat until the end. No, no, no, not until the end. No, no, no, no, no.
+
+[42:10] You can salt the outside of the meat. So if you were if you were gonna make a patty and then you're gonna put salt like fish sauce on the top of the patty, or even like let's say we're gonna smash it. Let's say, so what I do typically is I preform the patties, even if I'm gonna smash them, I make them patty shaped, not balls, right? Because I don't understand why people do that. I don't get it.
+
+[42:28] And then uh it's not like balls are easy to store or anything like that. You can like parchment between a bunch of whatever. And then I salt and pepper both sides. Outside only. Outside only.
+
+[42:38] No manipulation, no meat manipulation with salt. No meat manipulation. That's my rule. No meat manipulation with salt. You can salt the outside, then do whatever you want.
+
+[42:49] Smash it. I like the ball if you're doing a homestyle. So that when you smash it into the griddle surface, you sort of embed some of the onions. Yeah, but that would also happen if it was patty shaped and you put the onion on top. It would just be I mean, that would happen either way.
+
+[43:16] I mean, what does it matter whether it starts as a ball or not? Just makes it like, you know, more you know what's really hard to salt a ball. We're gonna keep rolling it around. I mean, like a patty's got two sides. I can just salt two sides.
+
+[43:28] You know what I mean? Like when you do the ball, be like, I sprinkle some salt over the ball, and then all this salt is on your table. And then what do you get? You sweep that into the sink. It's not like salt's expensive, but it is now.
+
+[43:38] If you're using diamond, right? They've just tripled the price of freaking diamond kosher salt. Ridiculous. You know what I mean? I literally in my house now have to use crappy freaking tube salt, like the iodized like you know, like schoolhouse tube salt.
+
+[43:52] When I'm salting stuff like pasta water, I don't use diamond anymore. Because I'm like, what the hell? You know what I mean? Like, I only use it where my hand's important. Are you guys smash burgering as the primary form of burgering?
+
+[44:06] That's not my primary form of burgering. Neither mine. It's not my primary. I am. I like them fine.
+
+[44:13] Well, but like, uh, if I want crisp and overcooked, I know how to do that. You know what I mean? Like, like there are multiple ways of doing that. Uh you know, not enough people are are exalting the virtues of the flame broiled. Oh, you're a Burger King man.
+
+[44:27] All right. No, no, it's bigger than that. It's not though. I think like the original burger was flame broiled. I mean, sure.
+
+[44:35] Sure. You don't like a panned burger? I I cast iron at home. I get a cast iron ripping hot, and 80 per I cook it like 80% just the first side to get that nice bar. I I like a good healthy layer of oil in the bottom of my pan.
+
+[44:52] Hot, like, so that like I get a good crust on it without having to smash it into oblivion. Exactly. You know what I mean? You can have both people. It's called don't be afraid to have a layer of oil in your pan such that there's zero contact.
+
+[45:07] If you have zero contact between the heat conduct, medium, smash people are like, how else are you gonna get a good crust? Oil. You know what I mean? They've invented this stuff called oil. Well, we didn't invent it.
+
+[45:18] Yeah, well, but it exists. You know what I mean? Somehow it exists, and we're so lucky to have access to it. Yeah, yeah, right. Speaking of oil, so Nick Coleman, obviously olive oil magnate.
+
+[45:30] Uh, we've talked about the stridgel on the air before. So for those that aren't gonna go back and listen to all of our podcasts, I think I'm pronouncing it correctly. The stridle, is that pronoun correct, Nick? I don't know what word you're talking about. The thing you scrape the scraper, the olive oil scraper.
+
+[45:44] Oh, isn't that uh isn't it stridgel? No, it's uh a sickle. No, no, no. It's a strip. Look this up, look this up, computer man.
+
+[45:51] I know what it is. A stridula is what you would use to bathe the olive oil back in the ancient days. Ding ding. Oh, it's not a sickle. I thought, well, this is not to bathe, this is to scrape it off.
+
+[46:01] Skim it off. So here's the thing. Because it's like a hooked thing like the reaper. Here's what I've learned of notes since the last time you were on. So you would you would do your work, you'd olive oil up, and then you would do your work and you would scrape the olive oil off after the thing.
+
+[46:17] They would sell the olive oil that came off of the athletes, and people would consume it. How about that? This is before they knew about germs. I get well, you know, you're gonna cook it. It's fine.
+
+[46:29] You know what I mean? But my point is that. Maybe they're drinking it because they think they'll get like the the DNA benefits of these incredible athletes. Well, I think it was this sort of like it was imbued with whatever blah blah blah, these athletes. How strength and but it's just intensely gross.
+
+[46:46] I know that I've probably ruined Nastasius Day with that. Well, it's almost like you're doing garum on the street, right? With the fish guts out. Fish guts, though, they're on the street. I mean, those were done on the docks.
+
+[46:56] They don't really I mean, come on. Like by the time they make it to the street, they've been aged and they they taste okay. I mean, I've like been on docks with a bunch of fish guts trying to make garum, and it does smell pungent. You know what I mean? It's like it's a smell.
+
+[47:09] I love it. It smells like you're going fishing. I mean, it smells so much harsher. It's like not as bad as Surstroming. That's the worst smell of all time.
+
+[47:17] Like, even I, and I'm tolerant, tolerant, like, of things that are off-putting. You know what I mean? I mean, because I am in myself off-putting, so I'm tolerant of it. But Surstromming was just only Harold McGee was like not stinky enough on the time that we had this drama. He's like, um, it's not the stinkiest I've had.
+
+[47:39] And I was like, God damn, Harold. Are you a durian fan? I like durian. Yeah. I think durian is.
+
+[47:46] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, the thing is, like, if you if the the real question is, are you up for it or not? If someone's like, we're gonna give you a hardcore sulfur smell, you're like, fine. Someone's like, we're gonna give you a hardcore ammonia smell, but it's this is the way it's supposed to be, hot girl, right?
+
+[47:59] You're like, fine, I can take it. You know what I mean? It's like, but like surfstroming, someone's gonna be like, I'm gonna give you the stench of death, unlike you've ever had in your life, and you're just gonna eat salty stanking death. You're like, nah, nah, I'll pass. You know what I mean?
+
+[48:18] That's the way I felt about surstroming. I like stinking. That makes sense. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Um, yeah.
+
+[48:25] Wait, I had something else on oh, I have something else on olive oil. So, Booker, I don't mean to call him out, my son, Booker, right? So he goes through a phenomenal amount of olive oil, but a lot of it gets wasted. So I make him use kind of like second-tier stuff, right? Because I don't want him using my I know that you hate Nick, the idea of this oil is for finishing only, because you like to always use only good oil.
+
+[48:50] I also don't like the idea that uh children don't deserve good oil or something. First of all, he's 23 and doesn't pay his own bills. So, not a child, but like secondly, it's like what he used to do, like where I tested him once on cured fish, and I was like, here is the cheaper cured fish, and here's the expensive cure, but I didn't say that. This is when he was a small child, and I was like, which one of these do you prefer? And he chose the expensive one.
+
+[49:17] I'm like, fine, I'll keep buying it. Because it's like clearly he enjoys this one more. And so he just has a refined palate for fish at at a young age. Fine. But like the stuff that he's like dumping on his salmon.
+
+[49:30] Anyway, so he used to take this salmon and he would dump oil on it and then put it in a bag and refrigerate it. And you he would get this kind of congealed oil mix that he would then spoon up. And it's horrifying it was horrifying because it's uncooked like low-grade salmon from Trader Joe's. Whatever. Horrifying.
+
+[49:46] You know what I mean? This like stuff he was eating. So now here's what he does. That is the craziest thing, but this is what he maybe you like this. You you're gonna try this when you go home.
+
+[49:55] He takes ice cube trays, and this only happened because now we have ice cube trays in the house, right? Because we don't have our ice maker anymore. He would take he takes ice cube trays, he fills them with olive oil, and then he puts a little salt and sugar into the ice the oil along with it, and then puts them in the freezer until they set up so he can pop them out, and then he eats them like they are fudge. Whoa. This is like a new thing.
+
+[50:21] Yeah, it's like he's like, I'm like, Booker, I can't say that you can't do this because it's not a thing. It's not a thing. There's no this isn't a thing. Oh, it's a thing. Well, for him, it's a thing, but like I don't know whether the high grade olive oil was set up the same way.
+
+[50:38] Hey, oh, we have a caller, caller, you're on the air. Hi, how's it going? Going all right, what's up? Uh, got a cake question, or I guess it might be more of a candy question. Um, so I've got an old family recipe.
+
+[50:53] Uh the recipe is basically bake a cake, and then you make a mixture of pecans, coconut, butter, and sugar, and you kind of mix it up, uh melted butter, smear it on top of the cake, and then broil the cake until the kind of topping is browned. That sounds good. Yeah, first of all, I would love to know if this is a category of cake that exists that has like a specific name because I feel like I've heard of other recipes kind of similar to this, but at the same time, I haven't seen a lot of them that exist, but they're freaking delicious. It's not necessarily you know, like a a gooey caramel topping. It's more like a crust on the top, but it's not really crunchy.
+
+[51:33] It's just a candy coating on top of this cake. Really delicious. I mean, it sounds most of the cakes that are like this, they they they get that way, then they are gooeier, are more of like the upside down style cakes, right? Where you're getting the Yeah, it yeah. Yeah, it'll it'll soften up a little bit.
+
+[51:49] It's not like crunchy at all, but it's also not gooey. It's just kind of sticky on top, I guess. Almost more like a pecan roll sort of cinnamon roll sort of vibe. I've never I've never heard of a broiled topping on a whole cake before. You know it's good.
+
+[52:05] I've only cakes. This particular recipe, th this is an old family recipe. It's called like it's my great grandmother's, they call it lazy daisy cake, which isn't very helpful. But then I also remember seeing for day recipe's wife. What's the base cake before we go to the case?
+
+[52:20] Yellow, yeah. Yellow cake. Just like a yellow cake. I love like pan-fried pan pan-fried pound cake is delicious. So good.
+
+[52:30] Dangerous. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Super delicious. Yeah. No, th this is definitely a softer, more tender.
+
+[52:35] In fact, I specifically remember when she I made it with her one time, she was like, the the amount of mixing, the creaming part of it, like you want to get a lot of air into it. So it's a really nice look really nice light cake. What flour do you use? Do you use cake flour for it? Is it like a high ratio cake?
+
+[52:49] Just a j just AP. I mean, this is a recipe from probably like 50 plus years, 50, 60, 70 plus years ago. So nothing fancy at all. Um cake flour wasn't used back then, but yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.
+
+[53:02] Question. Right, right. So my question is, um, without a broiler, how can I somewhat replicate this? Because I now want to put this on menus for events that I do, and I don't have a broiler in my I've got like the cheapest oven money can buy, one of those event co or cooking performance groups or whatever they are, the the uh Webstrom brand ones, and it doesn't have a broiler specifically, and so I'm trying to figure out how I can sort of replicate something similar to this. Well, even though they don't exist right now, Sears Hall's Sears All Pro would be would be good good for this, but I will even say this, which is anti-my brand.
+
+[53:39] If the pri if if there aren't any proteins, now I don't know what's gonna happen with the nuts, right? That's the issue. That's where you want like a real broiler and where the sears all is gonna happen. In a sugar only situation, torches actually work fine. But once once you throw the nuts in there, you might start getting those kind of off flavors that a torch is gonna produce.
+
+[54:01] So you need to run some tests. Uh and you know, if you can't get a cereizole because they're not available right now, uh I've got I've got I've got both of them. So yeah, the pro. I would use I would use the pro. But then if you know, if that wasn't available, you're gonna want the bushiest flame possible on the torch, right?
+
+[54:20] You're gonna want like a high output, extremely bushy. Like think weed weed torch. You know what I mean? In fact, I once used a weed torch to to test out and it didn't have the as bad a flavor impact. It made a lot of wind, but it didn't make as bad a flavor impact as like a concentrated torch does.
+
+[54:42] But I would use the pro. If you have the pro, use the pro that's gonna work. Use the work. This is like a this will be like a nine by thirteen or even half sheet tray size cake. You think that that would still be a few.
+
+[54:56] Oh, if only we had only if only we had built a V eight, you would have been in style. We were gonna make a Searsol V8 that was like, you know, big and like the the people who were who were like working on the development with us at the factory were you know, they were not the best. And so they couldn't make and then once they finally gave us the prices, like they were gonna charge us over $200 a unit. And so I was like, I could go buy an Uni for $200 almost, or you know, a knockoff uni for $200. Like you're put you're pricing me out of the universe.
+
+[55:30] You know what I mean? But imagine if we had made that V8 15 seconds on fully hot, and then you could turn it off, so you only have to like turn it on when you use it. Would have been the best. Right. That'd be swell.
+
+[55:41] Quinn was. Let me ask you this question. So I've got to be. So this is I think we might be our wires got crossed here. So like you so this in this recipe you bake the cake, you cool the cake, and you forget about it for a day and then you make the topping and broil it later.
+
+[56:09] It's not like a I know but like what could you try with the but the the the usual topping ingredients on the bottom then the cake batter bake it all together and just allow for the caramelization to occur at the same time because if your cake batter is really light and fluffy it's just stay on top. Right exactly here's here's one for you what if you can like I said that the topping itself isn't very fluid. It's pretty like so I think that that that's actually a really good idea. I like that idea. I wonder whether you could bake it though standard and then cast iron it like the cast iron sear thing just like well not a high heat though like a low low heat just like put the cake put the toppings in because I wonder whether it would bake because pineapple upside down cake the the batter that's right against the top isn't like a standard cake kind of a situation I wonder if you could basically pan fry it upside down with the topping and then invert it like an upside down cake.
+
+[57:18] Bake bake it standard and then put it into a cast iron to do the top like take it out of the out of the baking pan and then let it do it like your m like your mom and grandma did like bake it like a regular cake and then upside down I could even I could even just throw it I could even just throw it on a we've got a flat top griddle I could just throw it on the flat top griddle and try that. There you go. Or do you think I mean I had another thought too like wanted to separate the technique and do like basically make a caramel of all of these ingredients in a pin and then just dump it on top and kind of let it do its thing. It's not gonna be it's not going to be the exact same. Um it all depends on what you're willing to do.
+
+[57:58] No one else has had this recipe, so it's just a question of how much you're willing to mutilate your family's recipe when you're making it for other people. You know, right? Yeah, you can make something delicious. Right. Just don't make yourself sad.
+
+[58:10] If I worked, that's like I did. If I were to do that, the the stove top caramel topping recipe method, uh, what temperature would you take it to, like candy wise? Oh, well, you can't measure it like candy. The question is what temperature you're gonna use on the pan, and I would probably start at 320, 300, 300, maybe 320, because that's gonna give you a couple of minutes before it scorches. I wouldn't go any higher than that.
+
+[58:33] Two fifty, somewhere between two between two fifty and three twenty. Right. I'm also kind of open to making it be a little bit more gooey, um, just because I don't think that would be a bad thing um necessarily. So, yeah, I'm just kind of spitballing and just was curious if like basically asking any sort of specific ideas on the case. Once you try temperatures and things like that.
+
+[58:52] Once you once you try it, let us know what happened and uh I don't know, send us a picture of some crap. We'll we'll take a look at it. Well, because I'm curious. Now I want now. I want to have this boiled cake.
+
+[59:00] It's gonna be the new category thing. I know. I will I will see if I can the recipe's like written on a note card, you know. So I'll see if I can send it to you guys through the face uh the uh Discord and we'll figure it out. Awesome.
+
+[59:11] All right, in the two minutes we have remaining, Nick, what oil did you bring for us to taste? We brought some October 2024 harvest, which is the most recent harvest in the northern hemisphere. It's the Grove and Vine oil that we have on our website, which if you use the promo code cooking issues, you get 10% off. Ding dang. Um, these pequal oils, when harvested very early in the season, have distinct aromas of green tomato leaf.
+
+[59:34] Does this have that? This has that. Woo! It's interesting. Historically, when they would harvest these late in the season, it would have an off-aroma called pipi di gatto, which is like a cat piss.
+
+[59:44] And they realize if they harvest the floor. I like how we don't understand what Pipi di Gato means. And if they harvest early in the season, you get this beautiful green tomato leaf aroma. Don't, don't, don't stint on giving. Do you like me to do this crap that I'm doing right now, right?
+
+[59:58] I'm like slightly We're warming it while we're warming it with the bottom palm and trapping the aromas and the top palm, and then we're just gonna smell it and analyze the smell. Once you analyze the smell, then you taste it in the method called stripagio, where you create a repetitive spray effect so that the oil hits all parts of the mouth cavity. Then you stop and then swallow. How long does it how long does the tomato Oh it smells fantastical, huh? That's good.
+
+[1:00:30] But here's my question. Having distilled tomato plants, it's a fugitive smell. So how long does the tomato leaf stay in the oil? And I've read recent things that say that oil actually stays fresher a lot longer than we had thought if it's stored properly in terms of the phenolics and it's a good thing. You want to store it at 56 degrees Fahrenheit in a cool dark environment similar to a wine fridge.
+
+[1:00:49] And it should be good for about a year, maybe a year and a half, and then it starts to really degrade if the fruit was harvested early, but it depends on the cultivar. But does the tomato leaf stay? Or does the tomato leaf go away? That's delicious. This is you know 10 months old.
+
+[1:01:02] So give them the name of this oil again because they can still buy it. This is Grovenvine.com. This is the Coleman collection, number 38. Number 38. And give them the olive again.
+
+[1:01:12] The piqual. Not the Pipi di gato piqual. C. Delicious, Nick. Listen, I'm sorry, one one last thing.
+
+[1:01:23] I want to do this where we have the people who are on the Patreon pre-order an oil, then you come on and we all taste it together. Can we make that happen this season? What's the new season that's coming up? We will be releasing an oil in July from the Southern Hemisphere, most likely Chile. And is it gonna kick butt?
+
+[1:01:40] It's going to be incredibly vibrant and dynamic. What was the year like in the South uh Southern Hemisphere for where you're where you're getting it? It was good all over the world right now, because in Spain they had a great year and Southern Hemisphere. So you'll notice prices of oil this year should come down relative to last year, which were historically high. However, with the tariffs in place, that sort of defeats some of the things that we're gonna do.
+
+[1:02:00] We'll talk about it when you come on. So we're gonna do that. Nick, thanks for coming on, bringing oil as always. Nick Coleman, Old and Grimm.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you alive from the Heart of Manhattan Rock of the Center, New York City, New Stand Studios. What's up? Yo. Yo, everything good?
+
+[0:22] Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah? Alright, cool.
+
+[0:24] Uh today we got uh as usual, John. How you doing? Doing great, thanks. Everything's good. We got Joe Hazen rocking the panels.
+
+[0:32] Hey, hey, hey. Uh, how you doing? Uh Anastasia the Hammer Lopez in Los Angeles. Hi. How you doing, Stas?
+
+[0:40] Oh car. Uh, okay. Give me the sound treatment. Appreciate. Uh, we have no Jackie Molecules today.
+
+[0:47] He's getting on the airplane, and he's a little afraid of uh our special guest for today. A little afraid. A little afraid. And then uh in the upper left we have uh Quinn. How you doing?
+
+[0:58] I'm good. Yeah, yeah. And for our special guest today, we have uh give me a little reverb, Joe. Uh sorry. Wait, you got it?
+
+[1:09] Yeah. Reverb? All right. Peter Kim from Infinite Cable. Oh man, a little bit of a headache now.
+
+[1:18] Uh, how are you doing? Oh, yeah. Wait, I'm here. I'm sorry, I was on here. That's my that's my new ringtone.
+
+[1:24] Yeah, yeah. Uh well, is that something like need like the full like announcer? Like, you know what I mean? Yeah, I think actually a delay would have been even better. Delay and reverb?
+
+[1:36] Yeah, both, yeah. Like like Sunday, Sunday, Sunday, like monster trucks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Table, table, table. Do you have that?
+
+[1:41] Do you have that, Joe? Um looking for it. Yeah, just tell me when you got it. Uh, you know, the ultimate announcer was John Thunderlungs Lundberg. I think he's still alive.
+
+[1:53] And he's the person that uh ministry sampled in Jesus Built My Hot Rod. Oh wow. Drag racing, there's no use trying to talk. No human sound can stand up to this. Loud enough to knock you down.
+
+[2:06] Burnout. It's such a great song. You know what I mean? Like the whole song is amazing. Uh anyway.
+
+[2:12] Yeah, tell me when you got it. We'll reintroduce uh Peter. So uh what do you guys got for me? This you know, oh by the way, call in your questions to 917 410 1507. That's 917 410 1507.
+
+[2:24] If you're a Patreon listener, and John, why don't you tell them how to become a Patreon listener? Go to Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Uh you can find different membership levels there. You get uh awesome perks at every membership level, including access to our Discord, whereas one of our listeners reminded me that um that in and of itself is really cool because you get access to people like Kevin Young, um, who is a member and on the Discord and people ask him questions and uh yeah, just a whole bunch of uh other great perks like that. So check it out.
+
+[2:51] Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Yeah. Uh so what do you guys got? Oh, here we go. Ready?
+
+[2:58] Peter Kim from Infinite Table. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. That's it. Yeah.
+
+[3:05] All right. I like it. Someday you gotta do one on a Sunday, and then I can do a Sunday, Sunday, Sunday infinite table for you. There you go. Oh, is there was that all over the country?
+
+[3:16] Did they have that in the Midwest Sunday, Sunday, Sunday? Was Monster were Monster Truck Rallies also on Sunday where you were from? I don't know if they were on Sundays, but we definitely had monster truck rallies. But you didn't have like the constant thing Sunday, Sunday, Sunday show up at wherever the county fair was and there would be a monster truck rally. I mean, the Sunday, Sunday, Sunday thing does kind of like recall some memories from childhood, so I'm sure it percolated in, but yeah.
+
+[3:39] I would love to know who the original Sunday, Sunday, Sunday person was. You know what I mean? Yeah. I think it's because I don't know if for people who like me grew up, you know, I think you know, you're also you you grew up, we were the last people that don't know what it's like to be able to turn on any form of uh entertainment at any time. Yeah.
+
+[3:58] You know what I mean? Sundays sucked, right? Because like in the in the US, like we were still like, you should be going to church. Yeah. Right.
+
+[4:07] So Sunday morning television was rancid. Yeah. You know, just rancid. There was like we we used to watch that religious claymation thing, Davy and Goliath. I don't know, Davy.
+
+[4:17] Remember that? No. No, anyway, that maybe that was Justin Isco's thing. But so you needed things to do on Sunday, you know, if you weren't like necessarily like a football head, which was later, you know, anyway, monster. Yeah, but Sunday afternoons for me were awesome.
+
+[4:29] I don't know about Baye, but we had Samurai Sunday. It started about four o'clock and lasted about four hours. It was like usually four back two or three back to back kung fu films. Really? So for us it was w c I used to wake up really early for some reason, and it was patchwork family and like some other like that thing, Davy and Goliath.
+
+[4:49] And then later there would be an Abbott and Costello movie on channel 11, and then a monster movie, like some form of you know kaiju movie, and then what they used to call the million dollar movie, which was like some classic thing, which at the time I didn't appreciate. Yeah. What channel, where were you, Joe? Uh it was down in South Florida, channel 39, channel 29. We used to get from West Palm Beach.
+
+[5:11] It was always Samurai Sunday. That's what we would watch. It was great. Yeah. Then the in dub or uh yeah yeah dub well the Hallmark movies were usually on Sundays too.
+
+[5:21] Yeah. Yeah. In in uh we always watched those. Yeah. Six o'clock.
+
+[5:24] Yeah, something like that. But the weird thing is that so like I've seen, you know, when I was a kid in 70s, they even played the horribly racist Abbott and Costello like movies. You know what I mean? And there are a number of horribly racist Abbott Costello movies. Yeah.
+
+[5:40] But I grew up loving Abbott and Costello, you know? Not for the racism. Well Abbott and Costello are one of these comedy teams that go in and out of favor. Yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[5:55] Like uh not just because of racism, but just because like they sucked, they didn't suck, they were derivative, they were derivative, you know what I mean? Anyway, whatever. So yeah, despite the racism, you were a fan. Yeah. I mean, well, uh, you know, look, the more you look back at all the stuff, it's like really hard to like find.
+
+[6:11] That's true. Yeah, even Seinfeld, you watch that and it's just like, okay. And I never was a Seinfeld person. Yeah. But you know, obviously, everyone around me loves Seinfeld.
+
+[6:19] Yeah. So I love Seinfeld, but I mean Ping the Chinese delivery guy on that show is just like a horrible stereotype. Yeah. Well, you're a that's why your favorite movie is Sixteen Candles. Pure Fabrication.
+
+[6:32] Oh, get ready, I have more. Yeah. Uh so yeah. No. Uh what was the other one?
+
+[6:37] Oh, I just found out something else was uh racist that I didn't know. Did you know? So Endor, the Forest Moon Endor, right, is based on the Redwoods. I think it was shot in in Humboldt, right? And I was just in the Muir Woods, saw Harold McGee, Harold McGee says hello to everyone, by the way.
+
+[6:52] And so I was in the Mirror Woods. And um, I was like, oh yeah, the you know, the uh the people that were you know from that area displacement, Mi Walks. Yeah, yeah. Oh, and I'm like, oh yeah, exactly. I was like, oh, please, tell me Lucas didn't name the Ewoks as a quote unquote homage to the Mi Walks on like the coastal Mi Walks.
+
+[7:11] That's so hardcore. Yeah, yeah. Yet another thing in Star Wars. Don't get me sorry about Ewoks. They're the worst.
+
+[7:14] They're worst. And I mean, I'm sure you've seen this whole theory about like, you know what they were going to do with like uh Han Sol and all of them when they caught captured them. They were gonna eat them, right? Well, I mean, they look delicious. Yeah.
+
+[7:28] And so then, like, what did they do with all the stormtroopers? They ate them? I mean, it kind of follows. That's like opening a dungeoness crab or something. You said break open the stormtrooper along the joints.
+
+[7:39] They have the little like uh crab like cracking things. Stormtrooper forks out of their office. Yeah, oh yeah, definitely. So Lucas waited until his later movies for them to eat little creatures. Isn't that one little creature in um uh where Chewbacca eats them and his friends get like looks like a little penguin?
+
+[7:57] Oh, possibly. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Those little things. But remember, like um bad guys used to do it all the time. Jabba in so I think we can all agree that like he started going off the rails with Return of the Jedi.
+
+[8:08] You know what I mean? And so, like, I mean, hopefully we can all agree on that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. First of all, none of you who are uh, you know, younger, no none of you who weren't alive in the 80s, around when that movie came out, know the horror that having to listen to the Ewok celebration song on the radio is on the radio. Yeah, you know, and remember, we didn't have the internet, like the radio was what we had to listen to.
+
+[8:37] Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, pure torture. Torture. Torture. Worst.
+
+[8:42] The only tiny creature in the in the well, so so Java used to eat little things, but you were horrified as a kid, right? He had uh, what's her name? Princess Leia, Leo, like uh leashed, and then he would eat those little creatures. A the best tiny creature, and the only thing I liked about the first three movies when they came out was uh Jawaz. Uh Tini!
+
+[8:59] I love it. I love that. Wait, is that the blue one with like the two like the like they're the ones in monks' outfits who steal droids? Oh right, yes, yes, yes, yeah, yeah. Little red eyes.
+
+[9:16] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then here's hilarious. Like later on, you know, f yeah. So he spends a career making racist movies. Right.
+
+[9:24] This is subtly, I mean sometimes subtly racist, right? And then when they come out, when Disney buys them and they come out, they're like, oh no, don't call 'em sand people. That's racist. Like, what's the bad part. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
+
+[9:40] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. I think we basically apply like a sliding scale of judgment as you go further back in history, right?
+
+[9:46] With with like pop culture stuff. Yeah, I guess. Although Star Wars people are s you're supposed to like have it all in your head gelling into one actual thing, they just think. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
+
+[9:56] I don't know. Yeah. Anyway, why are we talking about Star Wars? I don't know. I don't got going this week in the way of cooking or issues.
+
+[10:05] Issues I got a plenty. How much time you got? I mean, about uh 49 minutes. Well, let's talk about my relationship with my dad. Oh wow.
+
+[10:15] No, um yeah, I mean By the way, I like it in your book that you do call out the Hallmark store. Yes, of course. And precious moments. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[10:23] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's a big part of it, and I think like for me, like I grew up on convenience food, and that's just kind of a consequence of having like parents who are business owners, you know. Yeah.
+
+[10:34] Latchkey kid. Familiar. Familiar. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[10:37] Uh so what do you do this week? And then we'll get into what you've done before. Oh, okay. Well, I mean, right now I'm basically I'm I'm pushing forward with this uh company I'm starting called the Infinite Table, Table, Table Table. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[10:50] And feeling really excited about it, honestly. Uh we I just um opened a prototype a few weeks ago and it went exceedingly well. Um, and to me, like, and I'll tell you about it in a second, but yeah, it's like a culmination of pretty much like all of this stuff I've done in foods, you know, including MoFad. And uh it feels really good. Yeah.
+
+[11:09] So now it's a fully operational battle station. Uh not quite. I want it to be a fully operational battle station, but I would say we're still uh yeah, still still in progress. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[11:22] Um hopefully that's the last Star Wars reference we have. I doubt it. Um but yeah, no, I mean it just basically the concept is bringing together 360 degree video around you and then eventually above and below you, uh, with immersive storytelling and uh food to transport you somewhere in the world. And so you'll be transported to say Oaxaca, and then you'll see a woman talking about her Zapotec origins and this mole negro recipe that's gone through her family and this then witness her pro whole process of making the mole, 28 ingredients, each one like hand toasted on a Kamal and then ground on a matate, and just get like immersed in that, and then she presents a bowl of steaming mole to you on the camera, and at that same moment, the same clay bowl appears in front of you with actually her mole. I brought the mole back from Oaxaca, and then we actually served her this uh her name's Karina Santiago, and we gave people the mole, and then my whole thesis, and I didn't really know until I did the prototype, was that this would fuse together into some kind of like magical experience for guests that you could like see the history and story and the person and be in the environment and then have them present it, and then it actually appears in front of you.
+
+[12:29] And man, like it worked. Like people were crying, like it people were literally like laughing and crying. And that's not because you spiked it with psilocybin? Yeah, no, they were they were crying out of embarrassment for me because they saw me crying, they saw me crying and wetting myself in the corner of the room, and they were like, Oh god, poor soul. But my own like myopic brain is saying, like, oh no, it's because of this amazing experience I've had.
+
+[13:03] Um, but actually worked incredibly well. Why is Peter's chair in a uh in a kiddie pool? Yeah, exactly. Oh, because you know, he didn't want you to know he was wedding himself. Exactly, exactly.
+
+[13:16] Good to have you on. Good to have you on. There you go. So uh how first of all, how big's her matate? Uh well, she has a ton of matates.
+
+[13:25] So the thing that's amazing about Karina in particular is she has this kitchen, outdoor kitchen called uh she calls it the Cocina de Umo, which means a smoke kitchen. There's narry an electrical outlet there, and it's just like this she's built it in the traditional style of a Zapotec kitchen, and she has like a ton of matates and everything you could possibly imagine. Um she has two camals and um and uh just an incredible clay, clay, definitely. And um, and yeah, I mean uh and then the one she was using to make this mole is I mean, I don't know, like I can't I I don't know how to like describe the size, but yeah, it's like three by three, yeah, something like that. Slanted up.
+
+[14:04] Uh it was curved and slant. Well, which way's up for you? Well, it was like the upside was toward her, I think. Yeah. Down close.
+
+[14:11] Yeah, working down, exactly. So did she give you like so the mono, the hand the the pestle equivalent, right? Tapered or pretty straight across? I think it was tapered. Did she give you any indication of how long when you get a new one, it takes before they're worth spit?
+
+[14:32] No, I didn't get into that with her. No. No, no. Yeah. That's why no one wants me to talk to these people.
+
+[14:36] Because I'm like, sell the equipment you can. Also, I don't think she's bought a matate in like a long time. Well, that's the thing, like some piece of like, so like, you know, I've only bought, you know, tourist matates and they suck because you don't have enough room. Yeah, yeah. And then the monos aren't really mated to them.
+
+[14:53] Yeah. So, you know, I've never had a real, like honest to goodness, like one that you would put on the ground and get on your knees and go. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? But I wonder there's gotta be some, there's gotta be well, first of all, like you say, there's different uses, right?
+
+[15:09] So probably different courses depending on am I doing chocolate, am I doing you know, masa. But uh I wonder how long it takes. There's there's gotta be a break in period, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's gotta be.
+
+[15:20] Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, and I think it probably just continues to evolve, right? Um, but um, but yeah, I'll send you the video. You can check out all her equipment and everything.
+
+[15:29] It's like pretty phenomenal. It's like so that like uh without the you can do a non food version so that like people with like an Apple vision can like check it out or whatever? So interestingly, we filmed everything um using uh stereoscopic uh video so that if you put on like a Vision Pro, it's mind-blowing. You're like you're it's like you're there in the kitchen, right? Because you have the depth perception.
+
+[15:53] Um for now, like the core experience for the infinite table is like a non-headset one where you're in a room with a c at a communal table with other guests, and you're the the video is coming because it's projected around you. And I don't know, for me, headsets are super isolating, but we did record it that way. So if I can find a good use case for it, then it's gonna be great for a headset too. Nothing else I like better than isolating. Yes, that's right.
+
+[16:17] For the misanthropes among us, Dave, uh, then yeah, I think that might be a nice uh yeah. Um, but also like eating with a headset. I mean, for me, like part of the the magic is the food. And I think part of like also my thesis is that like people who would never watch a documentary about mole are like super engaged in this because the thing that happens is you see it on, you know, projected around you, and you're like, I'm going to eat that in like six minutes. And suddenly it's almost like a self-interested thing.
+
+[16:45] You're very invested in learning the story because it actually contributes to your enjoyment of what you're about to eat. It makes it taste better. And so uh people like so you're saying you could actually just serve them trash because you can make it taste good in the video? No, actually, it's quite the opposite. It like sets the expectations so high because people are like so built up on it.
+
+[17:04] And I mean, in the case of the mole, it was easy to deliver because I actually brought her mole paste back. Right. And it it was all we had to do is hydrate it with chicken stock and then add some like braised chicken to it. Um, and it was her mole, and it is a single best, like to me, mole I've ever eaten in my life. Really?
+
+[17:22] So so good. Um, I still have some. Um where where on the color of dark red to brown is it? Very dark, very, very dark. Yeah.
+
+[17:31] And like, man, like watching the process of her making that was, and this is gonna sound a little like woo, but I will, and I'm not the kind of person to usually say this kind of thing, but it was a spiritual experience. I mean, I was in there for hours watching her just like wield smoke and fire and stone, and so like cool and calm. Where I think like anybody who's not experienced with a kitchen like that would be like tearing their hair out because like there's just flames leaping everywhere, and like everything's so live, and she just was like methodically moving through. I mean, she's done it over her lifetime, and then her her mom did it, her mom's mom, her mom's mom's mom, and so like it's you see that coming through in her hands and her movements, and so what are her base ingredients? Well, there's 28 of the ones I can remember.
+
+[18:14] There was um only actually a relatively small amount of cacao, um, tomatoes, and then tomatillos, although their tomatillos are different, they're like smaller and a little less tart. Um less tart. Yeah, yeah, yeah. More like more like uh more like a gooseberry, but green and not sweet at all. Yeah, they're they're like they're they're small.
+
+[18:31] You can actually get them here. All those things are just related, right? Tomatillas, gooseberries, uchilla, they're all the same. Yeah, rusty, yeah, yeah. Item yeah, yeah.
+
+[18:38] You know what? Don't you hate picking those things up? Why? Like the little stickiness? I hate it.
+
+[18:44] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like when I have to rip the skins off the tomatillas, I hate it. I can't wait till I can get them in a big bowl of water and switch it around and get that stickiness off. Doesn't bother me so much.
+
+[18:54] Roast them first. Oh, yeah, everything. And those actually go under the camal, so they go directly on the coals. Um, and then um, or not coal, I mean it's it's wood she's burning. Um she leaves the skins on, skins on, yeah.
+
+[19:06] And they come out all blistered. And then um she had like burnt well, I don't even have to say burnt, because everything goes through some level of toasting or burning. Um, pineapple, ripe plantains, uh tortilla. The tortilla just straight up gets lit up in flames and turns into dust. Um tortilla dust.
+
+[19:21] Yeah, yeah. Um so it's more an offering. Well, no, it goes in, it goes in, but it's like, yeah, it's like it becomes like ash basically. Uh and then four different kinds of chiles. Chiluacle was the big one.
+
+[19:34] Um and that one is real hard to find here. Um and uh that's her favorite one. What's it is it's similar to one we would have, like uh I I'm I'm not uh like I don't connoisseur enough of a chile to say I I can say like I've had it separately and I I like it, but I don't know. Good. Um tastes good.
+
+[19:50] Yeah, exactly basically. That's like when people ask me to describe like an Amari pfft, herbal bitter. Yeah, exactly. Wait, how do you describe that? If you don't have the flavor in your head, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[19:59] Yeah. Um and then I mean, yeah, like array of spices, uh, of course. Um how does the wet to dry and then the combination of wet and dry go? Well, so that's one thing she told me. I was like, 'cause we talked about the fact that uh using a matate in mono creates a different flavor profile from like using like a food processor.
+
+[20:19] And one of the things she talked about was that with a matate, you never have to add water. Um whereas with like a food processor you would have to, and so you end up with like a something that's more watered down. Then she talks, of course, about the interaction with the the stone and the flavor that comes from that. And then there's the kind of, you know, less like scientific, but I think something we can kinda like resonate with, which is like this the fact that everything is so live and like it's with her hands that she's basically it's like monitoring everything in real time. And so like there's n it with like a you know, with a food processor, everything just gets blitzed together, but like for her, she's like able to really see with every stroke like whether it's getting to the place where she wants.
+
+[20:54] And tr also with like the burning and toasting, it's like all I mean, she's literally like touching it constantly to like move it around. And so everything's like hyper calibrated. And the thing that's incredible is that the end result is just mind-blowingly delicious. So it's like yeah, the pretty match. What I'm curious is, is it's very hard to, when you're doing things by hand without power, to get things that aren't the same into all uniformly fine particles?
+
+[21:21] So is it like the drier stuff grinds first and then grinds wet into it? I can't remember how she did the order, but yeah, I mean she did get everything into a very fine pasties and that Matata. How much actual grinding time you think? First of all, what size batch is she making it, roughly? Like show me with your hands the size like ball she ends up with.
+
+[21:38] Well, she when when we were filming, she ended up making a ball like this big. It's like large, large like a small pomelo. Yeah. That's a large pomolo. That depends on the kind of pummel.
+
+[21:47] It's uh it's you're you have a couple of you have a cantaloupe size. You have a cantaloupe size. You have a cantaloupe size. I know cantaloupe shade because I'm like, oh no, I have to eat that because I hate cantaloupe. It's the one thing I hate.
+
+[21:59] There are good cantaloupe out there. I would say 90% of caliper trash, but like yeah. My thing is that the worse the cantaloupe is for someone who likes cantaloupe, yeah, then the more okay I am with it. The more it tastes good to people who like cantaloupes, yeah, the less I like it. Right, right, gotcha.
+
+[22:12] Yeah, yeah. Because I dislike the flavor of cantaloupe that other people like. Right, right. Yeah. So maybe I'll start with you because I've known you a long time.
+
+[22:18] What are things that you hate that don't make sense to people? Raw walnuts. Really? Yeah. Toasted walnuts.
+
+[22:25] Were you with us? Were you with us when we had McGee's walnuts? Say it thing. McGee's nuts. Was he with us with that?
+
+[22:37] I don't think so. Yeah. Those are good walnuts. Why, the tannins? I don't know what it is.
+
+[22:44] It's just there's something about raw walnuts. It just like doesn't, yeah. So, but what about when what what about when they're cooked? Once they're cooked, they're fine for me. Yeah.
+
+[22:52] What about like in a baked good? In a baked good, fine. But really. If they're raw and in large chunks, it's like a little off putting for me. But of course, like anything you don't like, if it's in the context of other stuff, it's gonna be more palatable.
+
+[23:02] Yeah, sure. Yeah, but if you hand me like just a raw walnut, I would have a hard time eating that. Wow. I'm being excited about it. I will eat it.
+
+[23:09] It's not like it's something absolutely disgusting for me. I'm not I don't have m have many food versions. Just because it's a brain shape? Something like that, yeah. You're like brains, fine.
+
+[23:17] Walnuts, no. Makes me think about ewoks. There we are. There we go. Back back to it.
+
+[23:22] Did it again? That's it though, walnuts? I mean, I have aversions that are I don't think people would find weird, but like, yeah, like certain offcuts I have a hard time eating, but I would I would eat. But like tripe. All the tripes?
+
+[23:38] Yeah, generally speaking, I have a hard time with tripe. Even when it's in tomato sauce? It just the concept of a tri of tripe in general. Oh, conceptually. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[23:45] It does have one time, I think I said this on air, one time my my stepfather, my his father was a butcher. And his father's father and father's father before that, all the way back. So once after he'd retired, we're like, let's go for a family outing to a slaughterhouse. Yeah. So we went to a family out uh outing to a slaughterhouse, and the kill floor had a very specific smell to it.
+
+[24:06] Yeah. And then they bought tripe and took it home, and I could smell the kill floor that like because you know how they have to clean tripe. So the c the c the cleaning process that they tripe it went through when the tripe was there before it was sauced or anything like that, reminded me of the kill room floor, and I was like, nah, I can't. Yeah, yeah. It's then it took me a while to get back on the tribe train.
+
+[24:26] Yeah, I know. I'm I'm pretty off the tri tribe train. I mean, I'll eat it. If somebody makes it for me and they've made it themselves and gives it to me off, I'll eat it, you know. But like, yeah, it's not something I'd be excited about.
+
+[24:36] No. Yeah, yeah. And so yeah, there's various organs I'd have a that are like challenging for me. What's your least favorite organ? Uh I don't know if I have a single least favorite organ.
+
+[24:45] Give me your top three least favorite organs. I would say uh any of the nether regions, uh nuts. Nuts. So you don't like walnuts, penis, nuts, vagina, age. Wow, you're gonna be able to do it.
+
+[24:56] There we go. Let's do it. Yeah. Hey, Nastasia, I don't know if you remember this, but Peter Kim, habitual line crosser. You just asked what are those not organs?
+
+[25:07] They're organs. I said nether regions to try to do it in a way. Straight up to the line, and then Peter's right over the line. Well, I s my the line was nether regions, and then you asked me to specify. So, what's the next level of specification from nether region?
+
+[25:20] Tell me one level beyond that that's not actually saying the organs. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Do any of you remember the time that Nastasia and Anastasia took some some uh pork junk, pork pork nethers to a party, and then no one would cook it.
+
+[25:35] It was a room full of chefs and no one would cook it. Remember that, Staz. Not really. Also, why can't we say those words like on the show? They're not first word.
+
+[25:46] All right. Children is that the first one. Nastasi was going to a party on Long Island that was a barbecue, and you were supposed to bring your own meat. And so Nastasia went to the store near the French Culinary Institute where we were working at the time. Yeah.
+
+[26:00] And bought a styro, first of all, all well-known chef buy a styro pack of hacked up, I believe it was I can't remember. I think it was cow penis. And brought it for them to cook, and they were like, we don't know what to do with this. Wow. And then it just rotted.
+
+[26:16] Wow. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And not in a good way.
+
+[26:20] I mean, look, if you'd handed that to me, that would have been the outcome for sure. Um you would have just thrown it on the grill, throw it in some marinade, throw it on the grill. I see what happened. I wouldn't want to cook it. I don't, I wouldn't, it I would not that would not be appealing to me.
+
+[26:29] It was hacked up into smaller pieces. But if it's like if you have a room full of stuff where people are like pride themselves on using all parts of the animal and everything, then I would say yeah, that would be yeah. Um but no, for me, like I just will freely admit that's just a piece that I will let go to waste. What about let it waste? What about what let it waste?
+
+[26:48] What about what about ears? Ears are fine. What well how do you like your ear? Crunchier soft crisp. Okay.
+
+[26:53] Really? Yeah, yeah. Uh you know what? Sometimes I think people take the crispy too far on the ear. I don't want to taste raw.
+
+[26:58] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I had some Ore Hot Tacos recently, and the cartilage inside was like I guess I'll say al dente. It's a lot.
+
+[27:07] I just couldn't. It's a lot. I wanna was expecting just a lot softer. I love that, but yeah, that crunch inside was not what I was looking for. Crunch inside.
+
+[27:18] Yeah. All right. So Stas, you haven't given me uh anything on this weekend this week. What do you got for me so far? Yeah, I hosted my uh monthly party on Friday that I do with Jeff Gordonaire from Esquire, and we had uh the team from Tamale's Elena um cook it.
+
+[27:37] They're like a twenty-year-old family from watch that cooks amazing, amazing Mexican food. Wait, wait, wait. They're in their twenties or they've been doing this for twenty years. Twenty years they're family. Okay.
+
+[27:51] Yeah. I mean uh they've been cooking as a family for twenty years. All right, right, yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay, okay.
+
+[27:57] Yeah. And and they are nostalgia approved like masa to filling ratios. Yeah. Yeah. They made a lot of amazing tamales and Fazole.
+
+[28:08] I'm not gonna pronounce it the way Peter does because you know, that's his heritage, not mine. I won't say today. Wow. Um guys were laughing in unison at the same like rhythm. Are you like pheromoning each other?
+
+[28:33] Yeah, but Peter Kim is the Alex Trebeka the food world with the pronunciation for sure. Oh come on. I speak Spanish. Doesn't matter. Yeah, I know, Peter.
+
+[28:44] But Peter, Peter came to my parents' house and they had made tamales, and we live on off a street called Badillo, and like, you know, he's talking to my dad, and he's like, the tortilla in badillo. My dad's like a big thing. Oh yeah, because suddenly I'm Italian. I'm Italian. Yeah, Stas.
+
+[29:04] Do it Do it with the do it with the Spanish lisp. The tortilla with the batillo, hey. Tortilla, tortilla. Oh god. That's Peter Kim for you, man.
+
+[29:14] Yeah, yeah, of course. I was about to say something nice about Nastasia, but I'm gonna take it back. Oh yeah, that wouldn't be the first time. Wait. Wait.
+
+[29:23] The party was really good. And we what then as opposed to Peter's parties, we don't eat very much. We just let people eat. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[29:37] Yeah. All right. Nice. So wait, so uh, do you guys do desserts? What was your dessert game here?
+
+[29:46] What are you talking to? You. At the party. Do you do a dessert game? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[29:50] What what was it dessert? Yeah. The chef is supposed to do it there, and they did a uh they did a a tamale, uh, corn tamale with uh uh whipped cream. It was really good, and then we had ice cream. So filled or unfilled the uh the dessert tamale?
+
+[30:09] Filled with corn. Sugar in the masa dough or not in the masa dough? In the masa dough. Nice. Nice.
+
+[30:18] Sounds like a very good tamale. Hey, somebody touch a my tomality. Okay. I like how Nastasia fell asleep for a second there when right when you asked the dessert question. Yeah.
+
+[30:40] She was like, I'm gonna tell them about the party and then just shut off. What? Still talking about the party? What? Oh yeah.
+
+[30:46] Uh so hold up. And uh what what beverages uh now do you do like wine or are you like uh a beer throughout for or uh cocktails? We have it all. So we had um Mexican sparkling wine. Well, we had all wines from Mexico, and then we had a mezcal, a Maris Mezcal, uh brought their stuff and made like four cocktails with it.
+
+[31:10] So yeah, it's a full-on, the full-on meal. Full on. That's like uh what was that song that Steingarden uh not Steingarden, Soundgarden used to play full on Kevin's mom? Steingarden and you imagine Jeffrey Steingarden playing in Soundgarden I'm trying to imagine him saying that. Dave, I think you can do it.
+
+[31:30] I'm not gonna do it on air. Do Black Hold Sun. I will do it for you guys in private off air. I will do Steingarden as Chris Cornell singing. Which one do you want?
+
+[31:42] Black Hole Sun? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my god. Jeez, Louise.
+
+[31:49] So uh how are the Mexican wines? Uh good. I only have the sparkling. I'll drain these things I like work the whole time, you know, and I actually didn't eat much or drink much. So I heard everything was really good though.
+
+[32:06] That's good. I was at a um, I was at a uh a restaurant with uh McGee in the Presidio and uh man the name just went out of my head. Dalida. Dalita? Dalida.
+
+[32:15] Anyway. Uh uh. And um they have uh like a lot of Palestinian, Armenian, Georgian, and they have one, I think one Iranian wine on. And McGee was like, hey, they have an Iranian wine here. It's illegal to make wine in Iran, so usually they ship the grapes across the board.
+
+[32:33] And so we ask them, and they're like, yeah, they're like wild grapes because they're not like culturing them, and they go across the border in bulletproof vests, get the grapes, come back and make the wine, and we're like, is it any good? They're like, no. But it's really expensive. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[32:51] We didn't have that. Yeah. We had a, I think we had an Armenian wine. It was good. Yeah.
+
+[32:55] Yeah. Yeah. But like it's so funny. It's like the like everyone in the restaurant knew the story about the bulletproof vest. How's it taste?
+
+[33:03] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, bad. You know. Turns out that if you care for the grapes, you make a better wine. Yeah.
+
+[33:12] Or, you know, as uh Peter would say it in Spanish, you make a better wine. Uh geez, Louise. Okay. Uh and what about you, Quinn? I know you've been, I know you've got some stuff.
+
+[33:26] You you know, Quinn recently uh purchased a uh control freak with his own cash. So are you now loving life having the control freak around the house, Quinn? Yeah, yeah. We we've uh I don't know if we've unlocked the full potential, but uh video game? What do you mean?
+
+[33:44] Very fun to work with. What do you mean unlocked? Do you have to put the special button I need to know about? Yeah, but I mean like we haven't like used a ton of recipes that like call for the exact precision, like your camera's onions. But yeah, we've been really liking it.
+
+[34:02] Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's good for crap like that. I use it all the time. I never used a probe because I don't care.
+
+[34:09] I never use like I don't use I don't use it. I don't use it for frying. Yeah. You know, there used to be a uh a car called the Ford Probe. And the advertisement for the Ford Pro Ford probe was nothing's hotter than a hot new probe.
+
+[34:26] I was like, what? Yeah. What? Yeah, anyway. And then I saw a Ford probe on the street the other day, and it was like an old probe, and I was like, mmm, probe don't age well.
+
+[34:39] You know what I mean? You don't wanna you don't want to get any part of that old probe. Anyway, uh so uh what have you been cooking then if if you haven't been putting the control freak through its paces? By the way, they gave us no money. I actually did some Yeah.
+
+[34:56] We actually did some live fire cooking. We did uh some lamb chops over charcoal, and then we brushed them with well, we had two sort of options in my brother found a packet of I think Cantonese 13th spice that we like made a little mixture with that and brushed it on at the end and then we also is it like is it like Ross Alhano where they just scrape some beetle eggs off the roof of their like shop and like put it in so it could be a hundred like we only have a hundred spices get some beetle eggs do you think the beetle eggs add any flavor to those Ross Ross Alnut mixtures? I have no idea. I'm not familiar. I've been if it's in it, I traditionally I just generally my default assumption is it's there for a reason.
+
+[35:46] Well but like people get into these one upsman ship things where they're just like we only have 13 spices. I have 35. You know what I mean? And after a while, you can add stuff that just has no flavor and it's just there. Yeah.
+
+[36:03] You know what I mean? Or like when you mix like, you know, like a shotgun mixology where you just mix all of your ingredients into one and it tastes like cocktail. Yeah. Well no matter what you mix, you can only reach 100%, right? So like yeah like more spices means less of other kinds of spice.
+
+[36:18] Yeah yeah. Anyway, so uh is 13 spice taste roughly like five with some extra stuff added uh yeah but I don't have a familiarity with five spice either to make a direct comparison but it worked well with the lamb and then a separate batch we brushed on with the the homemade uh KFC blend which worked actually really well with the lamb we've had this discussion about KFC blend. So I will not go into it again. I will not go in a KFC rant again. You cannot make me uh although, do you remember, Peter, that we found that old book at all that had an interview with Colonel Sanders that was also horribly racist to bring back this whole full circle?
+
+[37:04] Do you remember that? I don't remember. Nastasi and I had it Xeroxed and taped up on the wall at uh at the Eldritch Street, Booker and Dax. Ooh, Eldridge Street. Was that real, Dave?
+
+[37:13] That was real. That was a real that was a real interview with Harlan Sanders. I forget exactly what he said that was like, you know, but he was sitting there, not yet dead. Yeah. You know, he interesting character.
+
+[37:25] I mean, uh, aside from again, despite the racism. I he I don't know how bad of a racist he was. It just the interview was kind of weird, right? But you know, he was until relatively late in his life, not doing well, and then started uh started the whole that whole thing later, late in life. So, you know, career changes.
+
+[37:43] I hope for all of us. Yeah, all you need to do is have that weird white outfit. There you go. Get made a Kentucky Colonel. You know what I mean?
+
+[37:50] Drink a lot of bourbon, and you're good. Yeah. You know what I mean? As it happens. Yeah.
+
+[37:55] Uh all right. Let me oh well, one more thing. Okay. I did also make a raspberry survey. So once I do one more chance, I should have a calculator up for the page right now.
+
+[38:12] Oh my god, now you have Raspberry Beret in my head. I can't get that song out of my head. That song's never gonna leave my head. How about this one? Jub jub, but thanks, Peter.
+
+[38:29] It's once Prince O gets in your head, it's hard to get it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, one more thing.
+
+[38:35] Uh that uh so for the people who've been listening to the recent shows, ever since Matt Sartwell was on talking about A. B. Marshall's book on ice creams. I've I have a standing eBay search for antique ice cream makers, hoping that I will find uh a Marshall Patton freezer at some point because it's wider, it's wider than it's like the chode of ice cream freezers. It's wider than it is tall and it freezes from the bottom, chode style.
+
+[38:58] And um the and but in my searches, it turns out that for kids, Betty Crocker and somebody else, I forget, used to make a kid's ice cream maker, where it's a reverse ice cream maker. Have you guys ever seen this? So it's an aluminum drum that you put salt and ice into you pour the mix into the bucket that the drum sits in and you rotate the ice mixture instead of the stuff. I don't know how the scraping works, but it says that it has a three-minute batch time, which means if the scraper is good, it makes better ice cream than 99% of all the ice cream makers, or theoretically makes better ice cream than 99% of all the ice cream makers out there. Three minute batch time is ridiculous.
+
+[39:44] Are you sure it's not a snippy snow cone? It is not. I used to own one of those. They never worked like I wanted them to. I never maybe I just suck.
+
+[39:52] You know what I mean? Anyway, I've never had much lu luck with hand grated ice. Machine graded ice, yes. The Japanese ice shaver that Nastasia and I bought and I threw on my back and we took home, and that Mark Ladner said that Nastasi and I like carrying heavy things far distances, which is Stas. Is that correct or incorrect?
+
+[40:11] Yeah. Wait, but you had a whole thing. Yeah, horrible thing. It's a horrible thing. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[40:17] I saw you know, and I had it in my in my house for you know, many years. It's now in Stourage, as they say. Yeah. Um Museum of Dave. Yeah.
+
+[40:27] Do you know what the Stassi and I, the last thing that we did together was throw away our company history into a trash container. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Strangely sad and liberating at the same time.
+
+[40:39] You know? We're like, oh, there's uh 15 years of my life. Let's just throw it into a giant bin. You know what I mean, Stas? Good times.
+
+[40:47] Is that when you deleted the website? Or your email? Uh my email still exists. Yeah, no, but you guys had an issue. No, no.
+
+[40:55] Dave, remember when I accidentally deleted all of Dropbox and you went around playing all the wires in your hands. Yeah, Nastasia's like, Nastasia's like, I can't I can't afford another terabyte of storage. Let's erase Booker and DAX. Yeah. Well, you now you know where it sits in her priorities.
+
+[41:12] Well, I've always known that. Yeah, yeah, there you go. 999 or 15 years of my life. Spending 999. Spending 999.
+
+[41:24] Uh all right. So uh let's get let's get on. So we've talked a little bit about Infinite Table. In September, which is not that far away. Yeah.
+
+[41:33] Not that far away. Uh you have a book coming out. Now give me the title of the book. Instant ramen kitchen. Kitchen.
+
+[41:39] Kitchen. Instant ramen kitchen. Yeah, yeah. Um, so uh in I have the galley of the book. It's a n uh it's a very very nice book.
+
+[41:49] Yeah, thank you. Uh let me uh read a quote from it. Uh Ramen has instant ramen, sorry, excuse me. Instant ramen has always been cheap junk food for college students and stoners. And I quote, Peter Kim says Yes, nice.
+
+[42:08] Yeah, it's kind of the opposite. Yeah, exactly. Opposite opposite. Yeah, it's amazing whenever you see it, people talk about instant ramen in a news article. It's like I just hold my breath and wait for them to say it.
+
+[42:19] There's gonna be some reference to dorm food, stoner food, or one of those two, like starving college kid. And it's like, okay, first of all, it's just like a tired cliche, like just be more creative. Yeah, give me a new cliche. Give me a new cliche, yeah. But also it's like it totally does not recognize the fact that for a lot of people, it's not some kind of like stoner or dorm food.
+
+[42:39] It's just part of like what you eat, you know. And I think that just like reflects a certain perspective that for people who didn't grow up eating it like I did, and for like many people around the world who grow up eating it, they just don't understand that it's actually just like a staple food for a lot of people. Yeah. Now uh if you were gonna come up with a new cliche, like who would you smear with it? Wow.
+
+[43:00] This is like this is the big like trap here. Yeah. Peter, Peter, yeah. Peter. So airlines have finally gotten like smart that they should serve ramen because they have hot water on planes.
+
+[43:11] You should do some kind of collaboration with like uh spirit or frontier or something. Yes. I mean, the problem is is that they have to do it in a very tall format because nothing says F my lap like ramen in a bowl. Yeah, turbulence. Yeah, but it's a cup ramen.
+
+[43:26] Like I've never been served soup. Right. I've never been served bowl soup. No. But you know, if you've ever flown on like Korean air, you would know like the thing that many people don't know, but you can do on Korean air is you can always order a cup ramen and they'll bring it to you with the hot water.
+
+[43:41] And it's often way more delicious than anything you get on another airline. Now, actually, Korean food does lend itself well to airline food. I mean, I have a whole thing about airline food that we've probably already talked about, but like yeah. Go ahead. You have sixteen minutes and six seconds.
+
+[43:54] Well, I just think like first of all, like I I I feel like there's a few categories of foods that airlines should serve. Like one is anything that was like developed to actually hold well on its own, like a tamale. Right. Not a western omelet. Tamale.
+
+[44:09] Not a western omelet. Terrible. Yeah, no. Why? That has to be done a la minute, you know?
+
+[44:13] But like so and then hot hot chicken breast. No, why? And then like, then any stew works great. That's why like Indian food is wonderful on an airplane. Of course, I recognize not everybody wants to eat that all the time.
+
+[44:23] I mean, there is an issue. I mean, it works well with that too, but there's an issue with like with your salt perception because of the dryness and all that stuff. But anything braised or stewy is gonna work great. Also, anything that's like meza-like, right? Anything that's gonna works well cold.
+
+[44:35] So that's why Turkish food's great on an airline, or like Korean food. It's like all these like cold salads. And then the one thing that's warm is the bowl of rice, which is super easy to deliver hot and perfect. Because it wants to stay that way. Exactly.
+
+[44:46] And so then like I'm like, why not why don't airlines focus on these foods that are like, yeah, mezza, uh braised thing, stews, or like street foods basically that are meant to be held that way. And also, well, I don't really I've never really researched the I mean Nastasia knows more about the galley on a plane than any of us because she's gone through the training, but I've never researched like how that stuff works. But holding rice is a lot less energy intensive than holding some of the other foods that they have, you know, because it can be held in bulk. Yeah, exactly. And and with a tamal, literally what you need is a cooler.
+
+[45:17] And I know that because that's what you see everywhere. Bring a cooler on the airplane and then just they're will be warm and perfect, you know. Anyway, so yeah. At some point, some airline's gonna hire me to do this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[45:29] But speaking of coolers, Nastasia, for your dinner parties, can you order a bunch of my books to use as separators for the food? It will help me out. That's how she uses my stuff like that. Yeah. Um, yeti's giving us a bunch of coolers.
+
+[45:44] Ironic, right? Why is that ironic? Oh. I like that. I like Yeti.
+
+[45:53] Uh I was supposed to work with them, but somebody who shall remain nameless, but their name is Quinn. Yeah, yeah. Hasn't gotten back in touch with them yet. Yeah, yeah. To get us a stuff.
+
+[46:01] I'm not gonna say who they are. I'm not gonna say who it is, but it's Quinn. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
+
+[46:09] Uh so um wait. So back to the book for a second. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So one of the things, so if you want to get this book, here's some here's some things to look for. One, you have a strange Venn diagram of nationalities and spices that is correct, but it only allows any nation to have two spices.
+
+[46:32] Except someone gets three. I forget who it is. One or two people get three. I forget who they are. Yeah, I mean, that's just meant to basically like uh one of the larger themes of the book is to encourage people to just uh be more playful and open minded about just flavors they put into the instant ramen.
+
+[46:49] And I just I think my main goal with that was just to give people a sense that you can evoke a very wide range of flavor profiles with just a handful of flavors. Yeah. And then you also have a a salt, like a salt tree saltry, a salt diagram where you're like, first of all, is a one slice of American cheese really that salty? Like that's like the Uber salt that you have on it. You're like, uh you know, it however much uh miso and then like a slice of American cheese is way out on the edge of the salt wrap.
+
+[47:19] But then if you look in Peter Kim's diagram, you'll see how much broccoli you need to add to mellow out how much cheese. Yeah. So you want to talk about like Well, yeah. I mean, like, I think so an interesting thing I was trying to thread with this book is to make it super approachable for somebody who just never cooks, you know, and then also give it enough uh depth for people who do cook to inspire some new ideas with instant ramen. And I do think that one of the most basic things about home cooking that sometimes home cooks have struggle with is salinity, right?
+
+[47:51] And uh seasoning. And uh and a reason why instant ramen is such a powerful tool for home cooking is because it mostly checks the box of making sure your food is seasoned. And there you've already you've already got that, plus the umami, of course. And then the only thing, the only variable is really like how much stuff you put in. And I've just I know, I mean, just from my own anecdotal experience, I've seen people who just put way too much stuff into their instant ramen and then you've negated the value of like that seasoning sachet, because now you need to add seasoning to balance out the fact you've added all this non-salty stuff.
+
+[48:19] So you think it's like Pete said too much is too much? Yeah, I mean, it's just basically introducing the principle of balancing non-salty and salty ingredients, or just making sure you add salt to appropriately season uh anything added in. And then if you do add a lot of salty things, then just you have to be careful. Like you might need to dilute it or put something that's less salty in. Hey, Nastasi, do you remember when we were out to dinner with Peter Kim and Williams?
+
+[48:40] Oh God, no, no. Oh, yeah. And this kid, this kid look this kid looks at Peter with these big eyes, these big, like, you know, you know, eyes of uh admiration. What do you think of the food in our restaurant? Overcooked and under seasoned.
+
+[48:57] Because I became the emperor in that moment. The emperor decides to go here. No, he would be more like overcooked and under seasoned. That's actually really good. That's really good.
+
+[49:11] Yeah. Anyways. It was. I know, but they didn't need to know that. I still want to make a t-shirt that says overcooked and underseasoned.
+
+[49:14] Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what's better? What's worse? Overcooked and overseasoned or undercooked and overseasoned. Oh.
+
+[49:24] Yeah. Well, what what what what okay? That's a good question. What's the item? You're right.
+
+[49:30] I guess it depends on like whether it'll kill you to be undercooked, right? Or I you know what the things I'm never worried about dying. I'm more worried that I just like I can't choke through it. Like some things when they're under, I'm like, Yeah. All right, let's talk about let's just take steak.
+
+[49:45] Oh. Under uh under undercooked overseasoned. Yeah, yeah. Any day. Yeah.
+
+[49:49] Because the more you the more you undercook it, the more I just want like salt and pepper. Then it's not undercooked though. It has to be undercooked for what you like it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[49:58] Yeah. I mean, a lot of people like what I consider to be an undercooked steak. Like I'm not a black and blue guy. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[50:04] Yeah, yeah. But it has to be undercooked relative to your ideal, like your preferred duck. So I like it just past squashy. I don't really want squashy. There you go.
+
+[50:12] So let's imagine it's squashy. Yeah. And then like heavily seasoned, like over seasoned, yeah. Or it's like a puck. Oh, but you know when that's terrible?
+
+[50:21] When it gets cold. Yeah. Cook cooked, undercooked steak, cold, so it's both squashy and has congealed beef fat on the outside of it. And that and the slices are sticking together. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[50:34] No. Yeah, yeah. No, thank you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[50:37] Yeah. I think both ends are pretty bad. Yeah. Yeah. But I think well, this was overcooked and under that's pretty rough.
+
+[50:44] Yeah. Because then you're just like your mouth isn't even making enough saliva to get it down. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[50:53] They were super proud of that restaurant, man. Yeah. You crushed that kid's chance. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[50:58] The g and then then Kid was like, how do you get how do you get into the food industry? Peter's like, don't. It's not exactly what I said. The person in question wanted was like, I want to stash at Noma. And I was like, that's great.
+
+[51:13] Like, maybe you should think about something else. And like, not that anything against NOMA, but it's like, you know, let's be realistic here. And like what I told him was the best thing you could do is like specialize in something that other people don't have a specialty in and become the person who's for that. So if that that could be Koji, like in the case of our friend Rich, or it could be mushrooms or something, just go and like do a deep dive into that and then make yourself immensely useful to the food world. And then maybe because you're the go-to because you're the go-to person for that.
+
+[51:43] Yeah. And by the way, you can get out of what you were the go-to person. So like for years, because I did the ham thing, I was the ham guy. Yeah. Everyone was like, oh, you're the ham guy.
+
+[51:54] Yeah. You know what I mean? And then whenever anyone opened a restaurant and they wanted to do ham, they would call me. You know what I mean? Uh and then, you know, I'm a cocktail guy.
+
+[52:04] You know, like, no, I'm just a guy. You know what I mean? But like uh, you know how people are. I think that's just a much more interesting way to try to work your way into the food world than like just going straight down the middle and be like, I'm gonna grind it out and starge my way up to Noma, you know? Yeah.
+
+[52:16] Well everybody else is trying to do that. That's why uh, you know, people like find a niche that you find interesting that isn't incredibly overpopulated. Exactly. Find the negative space in general. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[52:26] Okay, now another interesting part of this book that I go. No, is I'm serious. It's like tasting notes on all the different ramens, yeah, like the brands and like the the tasting notes. I can't struggling to remember specific tasting notes, but like it's very sommelier style tasting notes. But like not can not pretentious, but like you know, this one is like so so you want to run down like your your basics.
+
+[52:51] Yeah, I mean, so part of like I wanted to implicitly make clear, like this is like a food product like any other, and indeed, like there is a difference between um top ramen and maruchan and saparo ichiban, and they're not totally interchangeable. And so yeah, I did a lot of tasting of like the broths, and I'd like to taste it one day, taste the next day, taste the next thing. And then noodles. And the noodles too. So on the broths, like I'd say like generally speaking, um sapro ichiban has a much more multifaceted flavor profile, and they put a lot more like peppery flavors in.
+
+[53:24] Um and then maruchan, interestingly, I realized actually has a lot of like celery seed notes in their in their um powders. Um and then in terms of the noodles, um, and this actually makes sense based on the ingredients. They have uh I think it's tapioca starch they add in or something, but it just gives it more of like a two. Um and then to accentuate any konsui notes? Yeah, I'm not sure.
+
+[53:47] Um, and then uh they all have consui in them. But that's interesting because they have consue, but at the same time they've been fried to make them extremely porous. So that's like one thing makes them hydrate and like soften very quickly, but the other obviously there's like whoops. Are they percause I haven't tasted one like on its own in a long time? Are they perceptibly alkaline?
+
+[54:09] Because you know, like like a lot of like the the ramen shops here, like the new wave ramen shops are like highly alkaline. Like I don't remember them being highly alkaline. No, no, you don't get a like a heavy like pretzelly flavor on any of them. Um but yeah, there are there definitely are like mineral salts in the in the noodles and the same ones that it would be in consue. Um and then yeah, like top ramen and maruton have very similar tasting noodles, but I detected just like a slight nuttiness to the maraton noodles that the top ramen ones didn't have.
+
+[54:38] Think it's just a fry difference? I have no idea. Yeah, I don't know. It's hard to say because like basically I'm going off of my like my senses, and then the ingredients are all mashed together, so then you don't even necessarily know what's going to which, right? Um, and so it's not broken out.
+
+[54:51] Um but yeah, no, there's definitely like interesting differences uh between the different different brands. And like your your cooking chart. So a lot of it is like, you know, what size thing to put in at what point to keep the prep time as low as is practicable. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[55:08] Um Yeah, then that's because like so one thing that's like a pep pee for me is seeing anybody doing uh up level your instant ramen or elevate your instant ramen or ramen made Michelin star style, instant ramen, you know. And then they present a recipe that takes 45 minutes and like three pots and like your Vitamix to make instant ramen. And I'm like, have you totally lost the whole point of instant ramen? Stick your wagyu steaks into the Vitamix. Like just cook with just cook then, you know what I mean?
+
+[55:40] The whole point of instant ramen is that's a shortcut, right? And so I put these hard constraints on my recipe development that were like everything has to be maximum 20 minutes from when you walk in the kitchen, maximum 10 ingredients, only one pot. You allow some pre prep on stuff, like chasu, like you're like Is that your thing by the way? The chasu bacon thing? That's mine, yeah.
+
+[55:58] So you know, Peter takes like bacon, wraps them up into pinwheels, and then cooks and braises them and then slices the pinwheels into well, you can describe it better than I can. It's your recipe. It's pretty accurate though. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[56:10] And it turns out great. Um, the bacon like fuses together and it has like a chasu look to it from like the pinwheel thing, and then why don't you put that crap into your carbonara? Is because you can't stand having bacon in a carbonara. You'd rather have no meat at all in your carbonara than add bacon. It's carbonara-ish.
+
+[56:28] So the point of that one is that it that is the fastest recipe. It's like you just what John's gonna do at his restaurant now. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, exactly. So you want to describe this?
+
+[56:40] You want to describe the uh the Society when you talk about anything being Italian. Italian, um, you gotta give me a Spanish accent. There you go. Um there's always uh a lot of haters about like authenticity and whatnot. So yeah, I definitely call it Carbonara-ish because it is it very loosely resembles carbonara.
+
+[57:02] But um, but yeah, basically what happens is you have your bowl, and in the bowl the eating bowl. Your eating bowl, you put half of your seasoning sachet, you drop a slice of American cheese. Do you have a preferred brand? Kraft. Okay.
+
+[57:17] Craft. Okay. Yeah. Um, and then um, and then after that, you just you cook your noodles and you drop in an egg. Sorry, no, you don't drop in the egg with the noodles, but you you cook the noodles and then pull the noodles out when they're done, drop it into the bowl with the seasoning sachet and the American cheese and an egg, whip it all together, and then the little piece de resistance is putting the dried veggie bits on top as like as a textural contrast.
+
+[57:47] The whole thing, the whole mess takes about four minutes. If I if I have some of your chassou bacon lying around, can I put that on? You could put it on, yeah. But that one is really, really like a speed recipe, so that's why I didn't have it like render out the fat and like cook the bacon. Two more minutes, two more times.
+
+[58:02] Yeah, there we go. All right. Uh and then uh so th that's basically an elaboration on your mac and cheese, but that one you use evaporated milk. So how how does that one turn out? Compare it to craft.
+
+[58:13] I think it's more delicious, far more delicious. Well, can I just say this? I don't really like craft macaroni check. No, it's not good. Is there any way to fix craft macaroni and cheese so it's not so thin?
+
+[58:21] Just add less milk? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. But then you the cheese sauce just adheres to the noodles, and you don't actually end up with like this creamy sauce around it.
+
+[58:30] It's one of the more disappointing things that everyone else seems to like. I know. John's agreeing with over here, right? Oh no, I'm disagreeing. Do you love it?
+
+[58:36] Yeah, I mean, I don't love it, but I have some in my cupboard at home. Yeah. And you make it? Yeah. Do you short do you short the milk?
+
+[58:43] A little bit, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's a good idea. Obviously, I'm like jazzing it up a little bit, but yeah.
+
+[58:48] What, Quinn? You gotta get the extra creamy variety of craft. Uh like Volveita. You know, just you'll buy two packs, throw away one of the noodles, and like, you know, add enough product to it. But I like this evaporated milk idea.
+
+[59:04] Like, you know, I'm gonna so you another thing Peter does is uh he breaks up to form a quote unquote couscous and he makes like a uh how do you pronounce the the fidd fidway how do you how do you pronounce that? Fidewa. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he makes those, but uh the one that I thought was super uh fun idea that I because I've never had noodles in a conceptual is the noodle shaksuka, the ramen shaksuka. Good.
+
+[59:29] It turns out great. And Quinn would appreciate it because the eggs are cooked in it. He he says that what I do is not real because I coach my eggs and then put them in at the table so everyone can have exactly as much egg as they want. And Quinn's like, not chucksuka. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[59:41] I'm like, all right, Quinn man, you do you, I'll do me. There you go. You know what I mean? Yeah. All right.
+
+[59:46] So we in the 13 seconds left. What do we want to say about infinite table? Oh, by the way, if you want to find it on the internet, it's www.the number eight table.com. Because you know what? You can't type an infinity symbol.
+
+[59:58] You can't type an infinity symbol. Thanks, Peter. Thank you, Dave. All right. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you alive from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller, New York City, New Stand Studios, joined as usual with John. How you doing? Doing great. Sweaty, sweaty, sweaty today.
+
+[0:23] You are, yeah. I'm super sweaty. But like looking at me makes you sweaty. I can see you sweating more since I walked in. I had a spicy breakfast.
+
+[0:31] Spicy breakfast. What was your spicy breakfast? Uh some beef empanadas from this Colombian taco truck or Colombian food truck. We can talk about that because it's unusual for Colombian food to be overly spicy. Okay, we'll get to it later.
+
+[0:44] Right behind me, rocking the panels, we got Joe Hazen. How you doing? I'm doing well. Great to see you. Hot and sweaty.
+
+[0:51] Oh my God. You know what? Like, yeah, it's just I know Quinn, he gets first dibs at crispiness. When the crispy comes out, Quinn gets first dibs at crispy, right? When we're all gonna be Casper crispyed, like Quinn Quinn gets first dibs.
+
+[1:08] Like I have a long list. Like, you know, either the headlight in the middle of my forehead with bioluminescent or like, you know, fix my night vision, kill the sweatiness, whole bunch, bunch of stuff. Anyway. Quinn, how you doing? I'm good.
+
+[1:22] I'm I'm very comfortably cool. Yeah. Air conditioning. Can you imagine? Like, uh, we'll get to it later, but like whenever I used to visit my relatives in like Phoenix, I was like, why?
+
+[1:37] Like prior to air conditioning, just why? Like, and no wonder everyone got shot in the old west. Can you imagine it's like a hundred and twenty degrees? Dusty is all get out. Like you're burning up.
+
+[1:49] Someone comes into the bar, you're trying to drink yourself into not understanding what's going on anymore with your body because you live in an oven with no relief. And the guy walks in and starts arguing with you. What are you gonna do? You're gonna get up and argue back? Or are you just gonna like do the easiest thing, which is to pull your gun and and shoot him?
+
+[2:06] You know, obviously, number two. This is why it's easy to get shot in the old west. My theory. My theory. Uh in the lower left, if actually, we're like a Los Angeles heavy crew today.
+
+[2:18] We have Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing? I'm good. Yeah, yeah, good. Uh we got uh, I believe we have uh Monsieur Le Molecule, Jack, uh Jackie Molecules, how you doing?
+
+[2:30] Yes, sir, I'm good. And our special guest is from Los Angeles today, but formerly from DC. Uh, we got Ed Cornell from Cafe Tropical in Silver Lake, Los Angeles, here. Hi uh, formerly of Milk Cult. And uh Ed, did we ever have you on when you were doing milk cult, or did we just like talk a lot because of uh questions and back and forth and whatnot?
+
+[2:56] I was on hey, how's everybody doing? I'm very nice, not sweating very much here in Los Angeles, but I was on probably back in 2015 with David Carp and Ariel Johnson at uh in the back of Roberto's. Yeah, yeah, back on the Voldemort Network. That's a good crew, though. That's a good crew.
+
+[3:18] Yeah, I ran into David, I ran into David Carp at the Santa Monica Farmers Market two years ago, and I was like, I know you, and he said, No, you don't. That's good. That's very strong. Until until until I finally reminded him of where we've met before, and then he's been nice since then. You're like, no, no, pornographic apples.
+
+[3:39] Don't you remember pornographic apples? He's like, Nope. Nope. For those of you that don't remember, uh Carp is a fruit expert that uh Nastasi and I met when we did the Houdini party. Isn't that when we met him, or did we meet him before then, Staz?
+
+[3:54] Uh uh, no, that sounds right. Yeah. And uh, so other than being an aficionado of uh it's easy to be an aficionado of good fruit when you're in SoCal, you know what I mean? It's like, oh, I I go to the date farm and I get all the best dates. And did you have the date in rootab for them you chowed?
+
+[4:10] You know what I mean? Or did you uh and like uh so it's like serious like fruit FOMO whenever you're talking to him. But then if you prod him, if you ever meet him, right? If you just a little bit of prodding, we'll get him to start to talk about French pornographic apples, wherein you you paint over the surface of a young apple before it reddens, and then you know don't do it with a green apple. Don't be a moron.
+
+[4:34] Don't do it with an apple that doesn't change colors, or you're just being a dunce. Anyway, you paint, uh you can paint anything. It doesn't have to be pornographic. However, the traditional, the traditional is kind of a soft core porn thing. And then you wash off the uh you wash off the coating uh after the apple blushes, and then you have a picture on your apple.
+
+[4:55] So that's like you know, it just takes a tiny bit of prodding to get him there. It's kind of like me and and uh Monroe Boston Strauss of of Pi. It takes a tiny tiny nudge to get me to start spooling off into infinity. Um I had something else on. Oh, yeah, you know, there's a lot of weird old like before like everyone could just turn on their computers and get pornography 247.
+
+[5:17] There's a lot of weird. Are you guys familiar with any any doctor people or doctor adjacent people? Anyone here familiar with uh what's the name of that company? Is it Davis and GEC? Something in GEC.
+
+[5:27] They are uh a suture corporation. They manufacture like the stuff that you know, sutures that you sew people up with, you know what I mean? Yeah, fancy butcher's twine with needles, you know what I mean? Yep. And in the I think 30s through late 40s, they did a bunch of things called uh history of ancient surgery, sutures and ancient surgery.
+
+[5:47] And they hired, there was a there was a cadre, a very well known at the time photographers, one of who happened to do the portrait for Monroe Boston Strauss in the original edition of his book. Anyway, so he they they have all these crazy studio, like like beautifully lit, almost like uh like uh like a pre-raphaulite painting of like historical things reenacted with models. So it's nine tenths is a bunch of dudes, usually older dudes, pretending to sew up naked women in weird positions, and these were intended to be put in doctors' offices. Weirdest thing ever. Like pornographic apple.
+
+[6:21] Like, why do you need your porn on an apple? That doesn't make sense. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's weird. Yeah, it's we it's weird and creepy.
+
+[6:30] It's weird and creepy that you know about all this. I was researching the didn't say I was a collector. Didn't say I was a collector. Anyway, um all this stuff gets served to me. You know how I'm a rabbit hole kind of a guy.
+
+[6:47] I know you are. Yeah. So when I yeah, I got to it, believe it or not, through pie. Through through pie. I believe it.
+
+[6:54] Yeah, yeah. Anywho, huh? And an interesting thing about a lot of these uh commercial photographers who are also, you know, fundamental, it was a weird interlace between commercial work and artwork at the time. And uh, but by the time these people died, like that, all of this work, which wasn't always like pornographic sutures, it was also like interesting commercial work as well. It wasn't really respected.
+
+[7:14] So it just ended up on street corners, just thrown out. Like no one saved it, archived it, donated it to anyone. So there's whole swathes of this that's only the only the ephemera exists, not the actual original. It's kinda sad. What a shame.
+
+[7:29] I mean, in some cases, it's a shame. Not in all cases. Anyways, uh, if you have questions, call your questions in to 917 410 1507. That's 917 410 1507. But to do that, you have to be a Patreon member.
+
+[7:43] And John, why don't you tell them, other than learning about weird uh suture pictures, why they might want to uh join the Patreon? Well, if you go to Patreon.com slash cooking issues, you'll see that we've got a couple different membership levels, uh, different perks at every level, including uh video access to uh the live stream if you want to watch that. Um you get discounts with a bunch of the people that we work in partner with, including Glassfin and uh Groven Vine olive oil and Kitchen Arts and Letters. Uh, you get access to our uh Discord with uh the rest of the community, and it's just a great resource. So yeah, check it out.
+
+[8:16] Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Random food thing that I'm not gonna remember, but it just caught my attention. Dad, I need to find out if anyone in the Patreon in the Discord has worked with this before. But you remember like 15 years ago when everyone's like when b when like bubble tea first started hitting hard, and everyone's like, I'm gonna make my own boba, I'm gonna make my own booba, and then you're like, nah, I'm not. This sucks.
+
+[8:40] Doing this sucks. You know what I mean? Well, I don't know how I got on. Oh, I know, because there's a question about boba, right? And uh, so I I tried it a couple times and it sucked.
+
+[8:49] And so then I would just go to 10 Ren or whatever and buy them because they would sell you the sacks of the pre-made commercial boba, and I was like, Oh, this is what I want. Anyway, I looked up some recipes on how to do it. Are any of you who like carp fisher people like fishing for carp? Not I. No?
+
+[9:07] No one? I used to. Really? Okay. Did you use boilies?
+
+[9:11] No, we used uh large clumps of lettuce. Really? Weird. Okay. So in your vegetarians.
+
+[9:18] Okay. Interesting. In uh in England, carpfisher folk have developed this thing because they're English. It's got a dumb name. Boilies.
+
+[9:29] Boilies. What's a boily? Good question. So it originally started out as like flour and like, you know, a binder like egg or whatever, and then um some flavoring mixed in that the carp would like, and they would boil them like a boba, right? They're round, they're perfectly round, like boba.
+
+[9:46] So sits well on your hook. Yeah, right? And it's right, and and they can make them float so they float up off of the off the bottom, so you can put your your hook, your your sinker, your hook, and your and your boilies, and they float there, and they make them in all different sizes from nine millimeters all the way up to 25 millimeters, right? But the English sell a boilie maker. So if you're interested in making boba or any sort of BB-shaped or ball-bearing-shaped extruded dough, and it's not even expensive, and they sell them in the US.
+
+[10:16] Look up Rollerball, one L on the roll, roll a ball, rolla ball. And so it's basically you what you do is you take a modified caulk gun, which they call a sausage gun, and it's got uh you get a different tip depending on what size quote unquote boiler you're gonna make, and you just go and you pipe out a line along what looks like you know, a bunch of scooped out, you know, like a bunch of scooped-out scallop lines, and then you put the mating surface on the top, it squeezes it down into now, they've been rounded on two sides, and then you roll the board just back and forth, bop bop, bop, and they roll off perfect, perfect boilies or bobas. So that's the way. That is the way. There we go.
+
+[10:57] Anyway. They're not very good fighting fish, they're just big lunks of logs that come out of the water. Well, I'm not advocating necessarily because I've never had a carp where I've been like, you know what I want more of? Carp. You know what I mean?
+
+[11:09] And also, like when you go, you know how you like you like when live carp are butchered, they just put the they put the they butcher them and then the live guts are there and you can see the heart beating. I just don't like it. Carp is just carp to me is like it's just I don't know. It's not it's not what I'm looking for. I know that a lot of people like carp.
+
+[11:29] It's just not what I'm looking for in the fish. It's not the fish I'm looking for. Has anyone here a carp lover? No. No.
+
+[11:37] Indifferent. Indifferent, yeah. Someone's like, oh, what are you having today? Grass carp. All right.
+
+[11:43] No, you know what I mean? Doesn't happen to me. Again, it's me. This I'm not trying to yuck anyone's carp yum. Uh like carp crudete.
+
+[11:55] Or just munch on carp scales. Anyway. Uh yeah, not my not my favorite fish. Did you finish talking about the Patreon? My brain's a bit.
+
+[12:05] All right, so what do you guys got this week? What what what do you what do you got in the way in the way of uh cooking? I went to a friends and family the other week uh for Haymarket. It's uh somewhere in Chelsea, Sixth Avenue and something. Twenties.
+
+[12:19] Um, really great spot. Uh friend who grew up in the UK of Caribbean descent, has worked at a bunch of great restaurants, has some really great food there. She's got this uh Perry Perry chicken. I had a berry berry chicken over the weekend. Oh nice.
+
+[12:32] Yeah. Oh mine was delicious. I don't know. This nice ranch. You know what that sauce goes good on?
+
+[12:38] French fries. Yeah. Dip your French fries in that crap. Yeah, that would be great. It's good.
+
+[12:42] Yeah. Yeah. Um, what else? Great salt cod fritters, like really, really great. How is the chicken served?
+
+[12:49] Uh half chicken, deboned. Debone, nice. Yep. Um sauced, you know, like on a sizzle and then moved to the plate so there's no like excess drip on the rest of the plate, if that makes sense. Yeah.
+
+[13:00] Well, you gotta be careful when you take it off the sizzle, right? To not need to do a wipe. If you're gonna do a table side, it wasn't table side, yeah. Oh, I was gonna say, yeah. When you do a table side, you don't get the chance to go, whoops, shoop.
+
+[13:10] And you like take the thing off. You know what I mean? Yeah. People are like, oh, how are people so neat? We use towels.
+
+[13:15] Yes. You know what I mean? Like, uh, yeah, all right. Yeah. Uh how uh the the breast was dry or not dry?
+
+[13:23] No. No. No, not dry. It's good. So uh remember when Sam Yu from across the street came in and say that he disassembles his border house so that it cooks properly?
+
+[13:35] That's a strong move. You think they're deboned, you think they still cooked it in one shot? I think so. They salted the heck out of the breast so that it had some uh wiggle room. Yeah.
+
+[13:44] Okay. Yeah, that was great. Yeah, if anyone's in New York City looking for a place to go, I'd recommend it. It was very good. Yeah.
+
+[13:50] Yeah. Uh I was in Boston unplanned, and uh they have really good fireworks in Boston. Get this. They light all the fireworks, they do what you think is a finale, and you know how sometimes they have a false finale, but this time they waited so long between the false finale, it's right on the River Charles. Right.
+
+[14:05] They waited so long between the false finale and the and the real one that like half the people just got up and started walking away. Like it's the middle of a baseball game or something. It's crazy. It's like, don't are any of you the kind of I mean, not that I go to baseball games, but whenever I have gone to a baseball game, all the people who like lit leave during the eighth inning, I'm like, what are you stupid? You know what I mean?
+
+[14:23] Like I hate those people. Like, why even come to the unless you're the people who are listening? I don't hate you. I'm just saying I don't understand. You spent all this money and time, right?
+
+[14:34] Baseball is one of the few games that's just not over until it's over. You know what I mean? Um so like, you know, is it that important to get out of your parking spot that quickly? I mean, oh, maybe you're I don't know, maybe you have a dinner date. I don't know.
+
+[14:47] You spend all the money to go to the game. The people that leave uh the people that leave before an encore at the concert, too. Same thing. Idiots. Like, what's wrong?
+
+[14:54] Get this. If you go to see the messiah, right? Don't be that person. The the hallelujah chorus in the messiah is like two-thirds of the way through the thing. I've seen it happen.
+
+[15:07] You know, hallelujah. Everyone's like, sit down, get up, walk out. Get up, boom, gone. I'm like, idiots. You know what I mean?
+
+[15:16] They're like, whoa, well, I I heard the uh we like sheep and I heard the hallelujah chorus. What else you got? What else you got, Handel? You know what I mean? Ridiculous.
+
+[15:24] Ridiculous. Although I did a very similar thing in college. I had a class that was an hour and 15 minutes long, but I thought it was the standard 50 minute length. And I only found out the next year when I became friends with someone else who was in the class that I had been just getting up in the middle of class every single time and just walking out without looking at anyone else or just getting up and leaving. So I guess in that case, I'm that guy.
+
+[15:47] All right. Uh what do you guys uh oh I went to Eastern Standard. Haven't been since they reopened. Good. You know, I think eating in Boston is slightly less money per unit value than New York.
+
+[15:58] Does that make sense? Yeah. That's probably right. Yeah. Less money per unit value.
+
+[16:03] That's my feeling. All right. What do you guys got? What what what do you got in Los Angeles for me for the week? I was in uh Seattle.
+
+[16:09] That's why I was actually on on plane why I couldn't be on the show last week. But I had some really, really good meals out there. Um Atoma, this restaurant that was nominated for best new restaurant at the for the James Beards. Um just incredible meal, incredible service. They had this like radish cake with gooey duck as a s as a starter.
+
+[16:29] How was the gooey duck done? Killer. It's a great question. It was like sliced very thinly. You wouldn't I wouldn't have even really known what it was unless they told me it was gooey duck, you know.
+
+[16:39] Um they didn't come out to the table and like rip the condom off the gooey duck and slice it there for you. No. It's the grossest grossest. It is. You're better off not thinking about it.
+
+[16:51] But it was really, really good. And then um uh Cambodian restaurant named Sofan, who had uh there were really great food, spicy food, you know, a ton of fish sauce and everything. But um one of the cocktails they had was this like green onion infused whiskey cocktail, which kind of blew my mind. Blue Your Mind good or Blue Remind interesting. Good, good, yeah.
+
+[17:11] Would order again? Not not I would, yeah. So I'm a little bit triggered back from Booker and Dax days when Sambar, like every core container smelled of scallions. We did do an onion cocktail, but it was with gin. So like but the idea of a non like Gibson like a bourbon cocktail, like I'm just like I'm like my head's twitching a little bit just thinking about like all of those things.
+
+[17:34] So the sulfur notes of the green onion came off nicely. Yeah, it was subtle and uh had like pandan in it. And uh it was great. What's the what's the color of Pondan whiskey and uh green onion? Is it like I mean it just looks like whiskey.
+
+[17:54] Oh you know, maybe a a slightly lighter, it's like a slightly lighter brown. It doesn't look like uh like an Apache helicopter or something, it's not like that like dark olive drab round thing. No, all right. All right, sounds good. The last Seattle wreck, real quick was um in in Pike Place, this uh it's like it's called Oriental Mart.
+
+[18:14] It's just like a market, and then there's a Filipino food stall there that um is been there forever, family run, and uh, you know, you can order like a trust me plate, which is basically you know, the woman just serving you what she's making that she likes, and that was incredible stuff. Probably the best longanisa sausage I've ever had. So you trusted her and you felt glad that you had. I did. It was yeah, I was rewarded.
+
+[18:40] Have you ever trusted someone and they've shafted you? In the food industry, I don't know, rarely. That's that's pretty egregious. That's pretty bad when that happens. You know?
+
+[18:50] It can happen. If someone is not if someone is just told to sell what they're what they're long on instead of what's good, then you can get shafted if they're not good people. You know what I mean? Anyway. Yeah.
+
+[19:04] Um all right. What stas, you got anything? Ed, you got anything? What do you got? I was sent by my friend Jesse who cooks at a place called 88 Club.
+
+[19:17] He sent me to a 24-hour donut stall in Burbank this weekend. And I gotta say, they've been around for a long time. It's called Donut Hut in Burbank. And you know what? Their donuts are really good.
+
+[19:31] They just do yeasted donuts and they're open 24 hours, which I feel like is kind of rare, but they've been around for a long time. Now, what time of day did you go there? I went pretty early in the morning. Like how early is early. Uh like 8 a.m.
+
+[19:50] Okay, okay, but not like hyper early. No, not hyper early. Not like not fresh out the fryer, but you know, so stuff had been sitting around for a bit. But they're not frying all day. They're just open 24 hours a day.
+
+[20:03] They're open 24 hours. I do feel like they have a reset at some point, but I haven't been there at midnight, so I wouldn't know. Yeah. Do they does yeasted extend to crawlers or no? Like French Crawlers?
+
+[20:15] Yes, it does. It does extend to crawlers. And also, like we do, we do a couple yeasted donuts at Cafe Tropical too. So I've been working on our curlers and our yeasted donuts for the past year. Agree or disagree.
+
+[20:27] The Crawler, the French Crawler is the god of yeasted donuts. Completely agree. Yeah, they're just so there are, I mean, there are a lot of very good yeasted donuts, but Kruller is god deer. Yeah. There are other gods, but it is one of the gods.
+
+[20:43] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because like, look, a good pillowy, like, you know, not greasy, like good texture. I, you know, unlike Wiley, who detests yeasted donuts and only and when he was trying to make a yeasted donut, he made it chewy because he does not like yeasted donuts, right?
+
+[21:00] Like uh, I like them, but just something about like the texture of like the old school French crawlers when they're done right, it's just I used to go get them uh every day at 2 30 in the morning, they would come out at the at the donut shop right across where my sculpture studio was. And so my studio mate and I would just go get them every day. It's like, oh my god, right out of the fryer. Are they hard to keep? I mean, like they're especially God tier when they're fresh.
+
+[21:28] What's the trick on a French crawler since you've been working on it to keep it staying good after it cools down and sits around? Oh, I mean, I mean, you can try to keep it away from air. Like you can try like we could probably put it in like cases with desiccate, unless you look at packets. But in general, it's just like you just try to sell them out and then you know I I I don't I mean, it's just like other fried things, like it just doesn't sit around well. Yeah.
+
+[21:56] Do you know what's really good for yeasted donuts with a glaze on the outside, and I'm looking at them is just like a short like a very short nuke. Like just a micro nuke, a micro microwave, like a short nukage can bring back one of those donuts as long as you're gonna eat it right away. It ruins it if you're gonna hold it. You know what I mean? But if like some if like if you walked up to someone and you had like a cold one there, and you're like, Are you gonna eat this right now?
+
+[22:20] And they're like, no, nope, take it cold. You know what I mean? You're gonna eat it right now? Yeah, I'm gonna shove it in my face right now. Me ding.
+
+[22:28] You know what I mean? And then wakes right up. I feel like it because it's re-steaming the donut. It's like activating all that water that's still inside it. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[22:37] But the problem with nukage is if like someone overnuks it even a little bit and a little bit of it dries out and turns hard, everything's ruined. The entire effect is lost. You know what I mean? Uh like uh also I don't think it works as well for it works for donuts, but it's like harder because it takes a lot longer, and so they get a lot goopier. That's the nice thing about a nuke is that you can just do it until it's just perfect and pull it so it's not getting like burning you in one place, not getting too soupy.
+
+[22:59] That's like conveyor toasters great for cookies. I feel like they're not as good for donuts. What do you think? Yeah. Yeah?
+
+[23:13] Yeah. Yeah. What are the what's the team's thought on the old cake donut sliced and half and fried? Pan fried. Uh yeah.
+
+[23:22] Okay. Pan fried, yeah. Pan fry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pan fry.
+
+[23:25] Yeah. It's like pound cake. We talked about this. Yes. Fried pound cake.
+
+[23:28] Yeah. The pan fried. Pound cake. Whipped cream. Pound cake.
+
+[23:34] That's kind of like the the sp the split and grilled muffin is pretty much similar. Yeah. I was at a very bad. Delicious. Yeah, it was delicious.
+
+[23:42] I was at a very bad hotel. It's not their fault. Like, they're not catering to being good, right? But their quote unquote breakfast that came with it was they put a like very mid commercial muffin. They nuked it for like 30 seconds.
+
+[23:58] And I was like, you know what? Okay. Corn. The corn was better that way than the bad blueberry. I'll take a bad corn muffin over a bad blueberry muffin.
+
+[24:06] Agreed. Yeah. Bad blueberry is always so disappointing. I know, right? What is it?
+
+[24:11] Not enough salt? It just have no flavor. They're just useless. They have very little use. Whereas at least a corn muffin has an interesting texture.
+
+[24:19] If it has nothing else, it has an interesting texture. You know? Agreed. Yeah. Bad corn muffin can be saved with butter too.
+
+[24:27] Yeah. True. Yeah. What are you gonna do with the bad blueberry muffin other than throw it out or like cry or put on clown makeup? You know what I mean?
+
+[24:35] You know, uh, I don't know, like what's brand muffins usually have so much oil in them that you know it's basically just an oil muffin with brand in it, right? So it's like I don't know what my thoughts on brand muffins are. Really, I always either get blueberry or corn, depending on oh cranberry. You know what I mean? Like a cranberry is just a blueberry muffin by another name with a different berry in it, right?
+
+[24:59] Yeah. Yeah. What are your thoughts on lemon poppy seed? They're good. I'll never find myself going for it though, but if it's the only thing there.
+
+[25:11] What about lemon pound cake with poppy seeds in it though? Oh, that's fine. I like a poppy seed. Everyone's thinking baby seeds. Usually is I love poppy seeds.
+
+[25:21] Yeah. Not useless. Not useless. No. What about poppy seed filling?
+
+[25:25] Delicious. Like Hungarian. Yeah. Yeah. That's good.
+
+[25:28] Very good. Yeah. All right. So, uh, Quinn, Quinn, you're the only one who hasn't piped up with any sort of food catastrophes. What's going on?
+
+[25:37] Yeah, I was uh just making sure everyone else got a turn. Uh I actually did some frying over the weekend as well. Uh had some friends over. And we did uh pizza frita, so fried pizza dough, and then topped after and uh chicken wings. And it turns out pretty good.
+
+[25:57] Yeah, what's the advantage of saucing dough as though it were a pizza after it's been fried? Do you still have to like melt the cheese? Or were you doing some sort of abomination like roso situation? As it is, I mean, you know, the dough is hot, you just top it up and eat it. Of course, we also did some like filled dough.
+
+[26:16] It was previously make uh miniature calzone and then deep fried it. Yeah. I like a calzone. I love a calzone. I like a calzone.
+
+[26:29] I enjoy a calzone. Are you guys all fry calzones? Or some of you bake are some of you baked calzone folk? Baked, I think. I mean, if it's done well.
+
+[26:42] Like, you know, at the old cooking issue spot, the their calzone was very good. Yeah. So what's the difference between the calzone and the stromboli? I I feel like stromboli is like usually a drier feeling. It's like rolled up so there's like a spiral of dough in the middle, right?
+
+[27:02] Can be. I don't know that it always is. That's my question. I don't have enough knowledge. I'll tell you this stromboli is more fun work.
+
+[27:09] I mean calzone. I could take it or leave it, you know. I think the fried calzone is called a panzerati. That's pretty fun. It sounds like many it sounds like a tank.
+
+[27:21] I don't necessarily want to have kind of like Nazi references in my fried dough. Panzer? Yeah. Panzer tank. But a calzone too big to be fried.
+
+[27:32] Depends on your fryer. It's like a mini, it's like a mini. It's like a mini version. I used to fry full-size turkeys and made these. Yeah, I mean, like depends.
+
+[27:42] Really depends. But y what you don't want is one of those suckers spewing molten cheese into your fry oil. You know what I mean? That's why I always used to like. That's why, like, you know, all speaking of battle tanks, when you make like mozzarella sticks, just like the coating you put on those things so that they don't start bleeding into your fry oil.
+
+[28:00] The biggest fry nightmare I've ever had in my life was when I forgot to, I don't know what I did, but I improperly bound my falafel mix and I put in like 20 20 falafel or you know, 10 20 falafel balls in at once into my 40-pound deep fryer and they all instantly disintegrated and fell to the bottom of the fry oil. I was like I was like, oh, not only do I not have dinner, uh I'm I'm in this for hours getting this crap out of the bottom of my fryer, you know what I mean? Yeah. Cause like most fryers, re real ones, they have like a like a mesh coating that stops like big things from sinking down and poisoning your oil. And you don't usually let that much crap float to the bottom of your oil, but just like, oh my god, I hated it.
+
+[28:45] Hated it. Anyway, um, all right. Yeah, we did we did uh out outdoor frying just uh uh in a walk. Worked out pretty good. Yeah.
+
+[28:57] Well, how powerful is your wok burner? Uh pretty good. I mean, we were we had the oil at like two something Celsius, 200 something. Yeah, it's really hot. We we were listening, we were flush flush running the wings because they were they were in the uh ANOVA oven.
+
+[29:21] Yeah, uh yeah. I I need to try the new ANOVA at some point. But uh here's the thing. If you have enough power, I said this many times, if you have enough power, there's no need to overheat your oil, right? There's really no need ever to go above I mean I would say 365, but I'm gonna I'll I'll be generous and say 370, which is well below, you know, 200 is like 400, right?
+
+[29:50] And if you have enough power and enough surface area such that you can recover your oil in, like recover your oil temperature in less than, I don't know, whatever you're drop, it depends on how much you drop, but like a minute and a half or so. Like don't overheat it. Overheating is a technique that we use in homes because our stoves aren't powerful enough to recover fast enough. And so we're using the excess thermal energy stored in the oil to cook. Real frying, like frying the way it's supposed to be, does not use the stored thermal energy of the oil as a heat sink.
+
+[30:29] It just uses it as an amazing heat transfer mechanism, right? And you need to have enough of it so that it doesn't drop. But real, like the best frying is all about high energy input into the oil over a large surface area to accommodate almost instantaneous recovery without having to overheat it. Anyway, uh what I've never owned, Ed, is a donut fryer. Do you like yours?
+
+[30:58] Oh, I just have a regular lime, hot line, 40 pound fryer, but I would love to have the space for a donut fryer. We just we just reset every day. Yeah, donut fryers. And fry donuts at like four or five in the morning. Yeah, donut fryers are like the opposite of everything that I know about a fryer.
+
+[31:17] So for those of you who've never seen a donut fryer, they're like shallow and like wide. So they have a huge kind of a surface area. And uh because you're not dripping a bunch of stuff into it, you know what I mean? Yeah, you want to be able to essentially drop like 60 donuts all one time, very shallow. They have the large, they look like perf pans and you drop them all in at once.
+
+[31:41] Yeah, they're great. They're great. Do you have uh do you do cake and yeast? No, we only do yeast. So we do filled yeast donuts, kind of like the the old Polish donuts, those style, Larounds.
+
+[31:55] Um I'm using an old uh modification of an old Justin Gallately recipe. Uh the guy, I think was he at the British baker. Uh and then we have like our own pateo shoe recipe for a cooler, and it's like 50-50 cake flour and AP. Nice. And so but so the the those you're piping out?
+
+[32:19] Yeah, we pipe it. Actually, the thing that's nice about the cruelers is because it's a pateo shoe, like it freezes really nicely, and as long as as long as you temp them and saw them correctly, they they have a nice lifespan. So like basically pipe them out, freeze them, but you have to store them airtight, and then if you thaw them properly, they fry, they still fry off really nicely. Of course, like piping straight into frying liquid is like the best, but we allows us to do curlers like three times a week as opposed to every single day for the piping them. So if you had to guess, would you say 95% is good or like 90% is good?
+
+[33:01] I'd say they are 90% as good. All right. You know what? I'll take it. That's good, especially if you can get them right away.
+
+[33:08] What's the t what's the thaw slash tempering time? In other words, you're like, I want crawlers, or let's say you're gonna make crawlers all day and you want to stage them out. Like what's the how much time do you and what's the window of life? I'd say I'd say you want to pull them from your freezer. So first air, like definitely air seal them in the freezer.
+
+[33:27] We have those big plastic covers that go on the full sheets. Right. So definitely seal them in some kind of container in the freezer. Pull them and let them temp at air like regular room temperature. Our bakery is a little bit humid overnight because we're doing the bakes so like it we they only probably need to temp for like two hours but if you can temp them at room temperature like normal room temperature for three hours that's perfect.
+
+[33:48] And then how long do they live after they've been temped? Like what's your window? After they've been tempted they can oh um 30 minutes probably that's tough. Um they'll start to soften up a little bit too much and then they'll become hard to handle. So they're they have a good lifespan but they just become like too difficult to handle and like you have to be really really sensitive once they're room temp.
+
+[34:12] Okay. Or else they'll break up. And what's your fry time on something like that? Fry time a little bit the coolers fry for a little bit longer than the donuts so I'd say probably a five and a half minute fry total and then sometimes it pushes to like six minutes. So like three plus minutes on each side.
+
+[34:32] All right. Can you do I would guess that uh two and a half to a three minute fry is sufficient to set the dough. Can you par fry them and then and then re-fry them to finish or do they never come back to the way that they're supposed to I'd say it's like a pretty good chance but you'd have to go like super light and also like there's with the shoe pastry there's like a lot of moisture left on the inside unless you take it all the way, and I would worry about what's happening with that moisture that hasn't cooked out in the meantime. So you don't think it would just all balance out to where you want it when you when you when you finish fry it? By the time they're golden on the outside, that last bit of moisture has truly started to like in a good way, like cook out from the inside.
+
+[35:22] If you take them under, they'll still be pretty wet and eggy on the inside. And I wonder, and I think that they would sog out, they would sog out if you just left them. And you don't think they would recrisp on the second fry, you mean? Maybe, but wherever you kept them in the meantime, I think that weight would just like, but I mean I I mean I'm happy to try it, but I think that weight of all that moisture left would kind of really, really destroy them whatever wherever they're sitting around. Right.
+
+[35:48] Because it would be nice if you could it would be nice if you could like pipe them in directly into the oil, like keep them blonde, set them, right? And then freeze them and then throw them in the fryer from frozen. That's basic. I mean, you're just basically describing what we do with the churro, which is almost the same dough piped straight into the hot liquid, and then take them like part way, freeze them, and then take them the rest of the way later. But you don't think it would work on a crawler?
+
+[36:18] It's a little too fragile, but it might. But I think their fry is a little bit more softer than a churro fry. Right. And uh you know, we have a churro place. I've never been, I've never purchased a churro in the United States from a place that you had to walk inside of.
+
+[36:38] Same. Yeah. They have a place here that does it. Where uh at least they did do it right on Delancey Street. It might be called churro or something like that.
+
+[36:49] And they have like a big, almost like a Belgian style like kettle fryer, right? And then a thing that a machine that just or maybe it's a there's a guy there, but I think they also have a uh you know a depositor that like you know, boom, boom, boom, boom, puts them in. There's one in Cape Town actually on 32nd Street and Fifth. Have you been? No.
+
+[37:07] I've never walked inside to get a churro. Maybe I need to change my maybe I've made poor lifestyle choices. Maybe. Maybe I'm that that guy in Indiana Jones that picks the wrong cup and then gets vaporized. You know what I mean?
+
+[37:18] Yeah. I chose poorly. Yeah. What's your favorite churro uh coating, Ed? Are you you're not a purist, right, are you?
+
+[37:26] Who only eats either straight or like cinnamon, or are you do you are you one of the well, what do you do? I mess around, but uh so I have I have no allegiance, but I'm probably gonna go cinnamon sugar, but I don't have a dog in the fight of what churros should be covered with. Although I will say chocolate and orange peel is a slapper. Yeah. So how like zest?
+
+[37:49] Like microplane zest, or like like candied orange peel. Like candied, like dipped in dipped in chocolate and candied orange peel, yeah. Cinnamon sugar and the chocolate dip orange peel are the two that I stand out. So what size are the what size are the pieces of orange peel? Uh we're talking subdam sized.
+
+[38:11] What size? I couldn't hear you. Fuzzed out for a second. Below a dime size. Below a dime.
+
+[38:17] Back in the 70s and 80s, my mom's favorite candy was dark chocolate covered orange peels. And I have to say I still have a saucepan. Big appreciation. Yeah, yeah. They're good.
+
+[38:29] You don't see them as much as you used to. Delicious. You find them on the cannolis as well. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[38:34] All right. And it doesn't, it doesn't weigh the churro down too much, huh? No. And also I think I'm I'm talking minimal amount, like almost like a small decorative amount, like not covered in decorative amount. Like it.
+
+[38:49] All right. Okay. Uh okay, couple questions before we get into the nitty-gritty. What made you move from DC to Los Angeles? Why do you think Dave?
+
+[39:05] Wow. Wow, nostalgia's coming in hot. Yeah. I mean, there are many reasons, Nastasia. I mean, that's a good question.
+
+[39:14] Um, I was closing my I was closing my ice cream company with my former business partner who is still we're still pretty good friends. Uh, and it took us a year to close the business because we had a we had accounts in like 500 grocery stores, and if we just like closed the business, we would owe a lot of money. So it took like a year to close the business. Um, because we couldn't scale with like a larger manufacturer. It was just like during COVID, finding a larger manufacturer to take our product on just became more and more difficult every year.
+
+[39:43] So I decided to close up the ice cream shop, um, meaning the production. And then after that, I was just consulting a bunch and just kind of looking for work. And I thought, like, oh, well, I can I'm sure I can find some work out in LA. And I was working on a hotel opening out here, so I moved here full time, and then that contract ended, and I just started cooking in a couple different restaurants. Decided to stay out here.
+
+[40:07] And I was uh cooking at a restaurant, a pizza place called Quarter Sheets in Echo Park. And do they in fact cook their pizza in quarter sheets? They serve it on quarter sheets. Uh huh. And they cook it in those Detroit style tins, but it's not exactly a destroy style pizza.
+
+[40:26] All right, but they cook them in the standard. It's so good. It's so good. Because d like the standard Detroit pans that I bought from Detroit are not part of the stand of the st sheet pan standard size ranges. So right.
+
+[40:42] So I guess you cook it in that. I can't remember what it is, but they do have they do have their own size and range. And there's a shallow and there's a deep. The shallow, they would use it's probably a two one and a half inch to two inch pan. Uh and they do Sicilian style squares in those, and then they used a two and a half to three inch steel for their regular pies.
+
+[41:04] I see. For those I don't know, I'm I don't know who I'm talking to now, but for those who don't like live that sheet pan life, right? Get sheet pans, right? And if your oven can hold a full-size sheet pan, then you made good some good life choices. But if not, like half sheets, but also get some quarter sheets.
+
+[41:26] Uh and I even like the the other, I guess it's an eighth, a little one. Yeah. Yeah. And just get a stacks of them. Yeah, don't get sizzle plat plates.
+
+[41:36] Get the get the eight sheets. And then yeah, and then like, you know, they're just and here's the other thing. Don't buy rolled parchment paper. Just make the investment, buy the full sheet sized parchment paper in a stack that's pre-cut, and then if you fold it in half and cut it with a knife, guess what it fits in, people? Half sheet.
+
+[42:01] If you fold it again, guess what? Quarter sheet. And like it just this is the way, this is the way. You know what I mean? Anyway.
+
+[42:09] Uh sheet pans. You can beat the after a while. You need to replace they can take a pretty heavy beat. And they're so cheap. Yeah.
+
+[42:14] And they stack so well. They stack so well. Yeah. And get this. And then you get and then you get a small speed rack through the kitchen.
+
+[42:28] Yes. I heartily agree. Here's another thing. Guess what they sell that fits inside of all the standard sheet trays? They fit, they make cooling racks that fit in all of the sheet trays, which are also good things to buy.
+
+[42:41] Anyway, uh it's one of the you know, one of the few like professional things that I think everyone should have. You know, I was told we're not we're not a core container family anymore, unfortunately. Too bad. Bad for me. Why?
+
+[42:56] What happened? Oh, I don't know. There's you know, can desire to go all in glass rather than in plastic, but you know, I uh I just love I miss core containers so much. Not just quartz pints, even the eight ounce, even the half pints, guys. I mean, uh, they all take the same lids unless you're gonna move up to half gallons.
+
+[43:18] The the lids are made out of a different material, so if you accidentally overheat it, the lid blows off before the wait. Why aren't you doing core containers anymore? That's weird. I don't know. Like the desire was to move to an all-glass storage system.
+
+[43:33] Here's the other thing. When you're bringing something to some other how your house or you're bringing it to work and you pack it in a core container, you don't care if you ever get it back or not. Also, they all stack within themselves. Yes, they do. I'm not a standing, Dave.
+
+[43:48] I don't want to get into it. Not getting into it. But like. Not understanding. Okay, but I miss them.
+
+[43:55] I miss them. So get them. No, I can't. I still have I still have a small stash. But like it's just like the only problem, the only problem with core containers is that polypropylene gets very brittle in the freezer.
+
+[44:10] And so you have to be a little bit careful if you're if you're freezing stuff out. Um that's the only problem I've ever I've ever had with them. I hate it when a core container gets cracked in the freezer and you don't know it, and then you start thawing something and then it's leaking everywhere. A nightmare. And there are disreputable core container manufacturers that do make lower quality.
+
+[44:30] They're more shatter prone even at normal temperatures, but the average core container is a very good thing. Uh once you also the other problem is once you do mess up one of the lids, they're never the same again. Once you overheat one of the lids and it puffs out of the top. And also, I don't enjoy, I used to harvest them. I like now I get them like if we ever get takeout, and they send me a core container.
+
+[44:53] I'm like, yes, because they get a core container, but they always put the they always put the vent holes into the lids, which kind of takes me off. Nastasia for Dave's birthday, you just want to get him a couple sleeves of these containers? No, you're gonna give me no, no, no. Next year, no, he's he's being, I can't remember the word henpecked. Hand pecked?
+
+[45:12] Listen, the amount of crap that I bring into that house that is completely unreasonable, no one's gonna say that, you know, it's ridiculous, it's ridiculous. Ridiculous. All right. Uh Ed, talk to me. I heard that you were getting the last I read of you on the internet, you were, and I'm sure this was a while ago, so I'm sure it's happened.
+
+[45:37] You were getting a soft serve machine and a Carpagani to run ice cream. So, how's the soft serve working? And which machine do you have? How many flavors can it pump out? So I did pick up a Carpigani 100B earlier.
+
+[45:52] Oh nice. Uh sorry, mid mid-last year. So I've been doing a little bit of like scoop ice cream, but we're only open during the day. We've only been open during the day till 3 p.m. So we don't do a ton of ice cream.
+
+[46:04] But then I was waiting around on eBay to find a Carpegani soft serve machine for basically a couple years. And finally I came across a gravity-fed UC 1131G for this is so it's like new, it's probably a $20,000 machine. And I think my model is from like 2020 or 2021, and I got it for two grand. What? What?
+
+[46:27] Is it water cooled? Yeah. It is air-cooled, which is good for California, but it is single phase air-cooled, and it does has two hoppers, so it's two flavors and a split. Oh single single phase like 220, though. One single phase 220, which like our our building, our building just does not have free phase.
+
+[46:49] Like the bakery's been open since 1975, and all the electrical has been exactly the same. Yeah, the big tailors and the big electrofreezes are three phase, right? They're 208 three phase, I think. Correct. Almost always.
+
+[47:00] Almost always. Um hey, does anyone make for California like a water to air conversion where like you pipe water like to like the roof or something and put it through a fan, like through like a heat exchanger? Or no? Uh they do they do that for walk-ins a lot. I believe so.
+
+[47:20] Yeah, I think they do that for walk-ins. Like they'll have a separate heat exchanger that's that's far away. Like our we have a walk-in in the bakery and our heat exchanger is on the roof. And I'm sure somebody makes an a water cooled heat exchanger that pipes the cool fluid down to the actual thing. Here's something I don't know that anybody does, but this imagine this, right?
+
+[47:40] So you know how everyone, not everyone, but like a lot of people are installing like geothermal heat pumps. If you had a new construction out in California, you could just dig a well hole, right? And you could just put in forget your heating and cooling, but just put in just a circulator without a heat pump and use it as your um use it as your fluid in your uh ice cream machines, your ice machines, and your refrigerators, and it would just constantly keep at 50 all the time. 50, 55 uh Fahrenheit. All the time.
+
+[48:12] I wonder whether anyone does that just for their refrigeration in a restaurant situation. Because it uses the same it's closed loop, you know. I'm sure that would work, but it's I feel like with the California building codes and agencies, they just hate something they haven't seen before more than anything else in the world. Right, even if it's better. Even if it doesn't matter if it's better.
+
+[48:35] If they haven't seen it before, they don't want it. Yeah. Because you don't need that much of a hole because you're not talking like heating or cooling a whole place. You're talking about just the heat exchanger in your walk-ins and your ice cream machine. So it's you probably only need one borehole.
+
+[48:46] You're probably talking about it's not cheap. Probably talking about like a ten thousand dollar problem. You know what I mean? But then your thing runs more efficiently forever and reduces your air conditioner load because you're not dumping all of that hot air into your place. You're dumping it back into the earth.
+
+[49:06] You know what I mean? Anyway. Someday, someday, Ed. Someday. Um so you were also saying in the thing I saw that uh you're very actually very diplomatic about you're like, listen, I know no one out there is going to make your own soft serve base, but I want to make my own soft serve base.
+
+[49:23] But I know no one's gonna do it. So what are the challenges in making your own soft serve base? I think the only challenge is doing something that will hold in the machine for a while. Like if you're when you're going through a lot of product, it doesn't seem to matter that much. But doing something that will hold in the machine and won't butter out super easily, I think is been the only issue.
+
+[49:47] Like, so where I've had to do is like if stuff is sitting in the machine for too long, I'll have to do a bit of a draw and release some product so that like the next feed doesn't get something that's like kind of bad. Because just like everywhere else, like, you know, if there's a time where you're super busy and the only thing you're worried about is the recovery rate on the machine, and then you have times when you're super slow where you just don't want bad product to sit in there. And not bad in terms of like going bad, but just the the butter particles separating out from the water. What do they add to the commercial mixes to stop overturn? Um mostly lecithins and monoglycerides, and then sometimes I've I mean I'm using guar, but I've seen other people use guar.
+
+[50:29] The the funny thing is is I think for some manufacturers, like I was noticing I made our vanilla as close to McDonald's vanilla as I can possibly do it, but they are doing something with their recipe where they actually don't have any salt in their ice cream recipe at all, which I was kind of I was kind of shocked by. It's not is not a listed ingredient. They have something else, they probably have a natural flavoring that mimics the presence of salt, but they have no salt in their ice cream base. That listen, that's gotta be some joker thing they're doing where like they're getting the sodium from something else, like round up people. You know what I mean?
+
+[51:03] And the chloride from like a third, you know, like it's one of those when you have that much money, you know what I mean? You can make the label say whatever you want. You know what I'm saying? It's like those things are hilarious. Um they do include vitamin, they do include vitamin E, I think, in their ice cream base.
+
+[51:23] And I can't tell if that's for like health standard means, so they can call it something else. No. Or but but vitamin E is not it's not, it doesn't mimic salt, as far as I can tell. No, that's their that's there for uh for stability, right? Vitamin E for stability?
+
+[51:40] Is it isn't vitamin E tocopherol? It's there for uh oxidative stability, I think. Ah, I think it's been a long time. Uh oh yeah, most most of them just use monogly monoglycerides. Yeah.
+
+[51:55] Here's uh here's a here's a question for you. You prefer okay, you call them something nice. You call them cake cones. I call them styro cones. Yeah.
+
+[52:07] You like the cake cone. Why? I do. I think it is a very nice vessel specifically for soft surf. And if you I agree with you 100%, if you just pick up a cake cone and you take a bite of it, it's gross.
+
+[52:26] 100% agree. But with sauce serve ice cream sitting in it for one to three minutes, I think it becomes something completely different. And at the end of eating your ice cream cone, it transforms into something else completely. Something else good? Yeah, I'm just messing with it.
+
+[52:47] I'm just messing with it. You know what? All right. We're gonna answer some questions, but before we do that, I want to talk about your Feed the Streets project. So why don't you give us a give us like I'll read what it says off of the uh web is that uh you're basically bringing uh hot meals that are donated uh every Sunday at two locations and also doing coffee and donuts a couple mornings a week to people that uh have food insecurity in LA.
+
+[53:12] But you want to flesh that out for me and tell me kind of how how you got into that, what's going on? Sure thing. I kind of lucked into it because my business partner at Cafe Tropicall is this guy, Danny, who's like the best human being in the world, and he started he is he's not currently active with it, but he helped start this program called Feed the Streets, where they basically take meals, coffee, other stuff down to Skid Row and MacArthur Park a few times a few mornings and a few nights a week. And they started that like four years ago. And then when the fires broke out here in California in January, we started doing meals for fire relief four to six nights a week, and they would go out every morning to display people who lost their homes.
+
+[53:55] And then since all of the fire relief has wound down, we still do food and donuts and coffee out to Skidrow and MacArthur Park uh between two and three times a week, and then we do a couple things every other week. And we basically have some volunteers. Actually, it's really nice. It's mostly neighborhood people in Silver Lake. They show up at the shop on Wednesday evenings and I'll cook a bunch of food.
+
+[54:23] It goes in our walk-in, and then first thing in the morning we reheat it, and then more volunteers come in and distribute it, take it and distribute it out in MacArthur Park and Skid Row. Yeah. And so why don't you tell people how they can either like help I don't know by giving you product, cash, or volunteering? I would say direct them straight to Feed the Streets website in their Venmo. I believe it's at Feed the Streets LA or just at Feed the Streets, but go to Feed the Streets website, and all donations and help inquiries get can get directed straight through Feed the Streets because I'm lucky in that all I have to do is provide some food and a space and they help manage all of our volunteers.
+
+[55:06] Now, I also noticed by going to the Cafe Tropical website that you're also acting somewhat as a community center. You have meetings there like every day of the week for different groups. So how'd that happen? That was actually one of the previous owners started that, and that's kind of how I came into the business is back in the early 1980s. One of the previous owners uh came, his brother came back from Vietnam, and the bakery owner, he went to his brother's and was like, Hey, like you have this big space in the back of the cafe, and I just use it to have some you know 12-step group meetings back here, and the guy's like, Yeah, sure, I don't care.
+
+[55:43] And uh they started some meetings back there, and then over the between the 1980s and early 1990s, it just turned into a community room. And then in the late 90s, early 2000s, the community room uh became part of the bakery, and they moved the community room into another space that was behind there. They essentially bought out another space. And so there's a community room behind the cafe that has every day it's between four and six just community groups come in and meet, all different, you know, there's just a a hodgepodge of of people come through. And yeah, anyone's free to meet back there as long as the time is allowed as open.
+
+[56:23] Nice. Yeah. So go on their schedule and look at it. That's a very it seems like a nice uh amenity to provide for the community. Now let's rip through some questions.
+
+[56:32] Anyone chime in if you have an answer. Uh the germ 87 wrote in making a Thai iced tea ice cream and wanted to put boba in but concerned about it freezing too hard. Couldn't find anything online uh after quick search, not sure where to start uh if anyone has any guidance. I think it's gonna get too hard. I don't think there's enough I don't I don't know that you can make it sweet enough sugar poach.
+
+[56:53] Well yeah you're supposed that's a sugar poach maybe it'd have to be a lot of sugar, right? So I would use very, very, very, very I would go very high in sugar as high as you can go, right? And like invert, like not sucrose, right? As high as you can go of invert in a sugar poach. You think that's going to be enough, Ed, to stop it from getting too hard?
+
+[57:15] I mean I guess there's only one way to find out. Make the pieces if you get the smallest boba you can and then do a sugar poach. Like those two those two things combined could probably save you. Right. Well if you also do it do it like other people do and and and add it at the very end.
+
+[57:31] Like don't freeze it, just add it as a topping. Right. Well if you follow the recipe online where you get the the boily maker you can make your own and then you can add sugar or invert into the dough as well as as a sugar poaching maybe. What were we gonna say, Quinn? Yeah I was uh that was a a form question.
+
+[57:52] Actually, so I did read an initial comment. I was also thinking Jack the like soaking syrup with like vanilla extract or some sort of appropriate alcohol-based that doesn't like overpower the flavor. And that could help as well. Yeah, a little uh AFP. As long as it doesn't leach out into the ice cream too much.
+
+[58:15] Um Catherine G, yeah. Catherine G had a question about nut butter, and I'm not gonna go uh too much into it now by using with the masa grinder, but the question was how much oil, salt, sugar to add when you're making the nut butter, especially putting it through a masa grinder. Do not add sugar to nuts before you put it through the masa grinder. Do not add sugar to the nuts before you put it through the grinder. It could very easily seize your machine.
+
+[58:45] When you add sugar, like it causes the oil to bleed out as you're grinding if you add it before you grind. And and I've had nightmares. I almost blew out my next tematic by grinding it with sugar. Um Dave Kleiman writes in wrote in and said, I don't Oscath, I still haven't figured out what the cookie was back at Booker and Dax, the one that uh uh Tozy made for Booker and Dax. So I'm gonna look at it.
+
+[59:06] Dave Kleiman says, trying to make a Canada dried ginger ale. It's not available in Thailand, so I want to make it from scratch. I've made ginger ale, which tastes fine, but I want to most closely mimic the commercial beverage, so I'm guessing there are tricks. What's the process? I'm not looking for any shortcuts, and so the test that you ran, Dave, has like a lot of a lot of ingredients in it.
+
+[59:23] Canada dry, if you look at the actual ingredients, has less than two percent of anything other than water and sugar in it, right? One thing I'll say is that ginger rails uh have a relatively high bricks. I haven't measured one in over 10 years, but it's on the order of uh 12, right? And I would just I mean, simply I would just boil, I would thinly slice uh ginger and boil it in uh in in sugar sugar water to make a syrup. Use that as your use that as your sweetener, and they use citric acid and I would tweak it with some other flavors.
+
+[59:56] They might add a little hot pepper stuff to make the to adjust the burn, but that's pretty much what they're doing uh along with some preservatives. I I I took a picture, I'll look for it again next week. I took a picture on my phone, but I don't have time to look for it of the actual ingredients on the back of the Canada dry can. But that's basically what they're doing. They're not doing any, they're not doing any rocket surgery.
+
+[1:00:14] Uh Malkith wrote in, oh, I have to I have to go. Malkith, we'll talk about uh talk about ambergris next week, and L Butts will talk about caramel next week. Ed, thanks for coming on. I appreciate it. Uh, you know, uh I'm gonna be in LA soon.
+
+[1:00:28] Maybe we'll uh come try some of the some of the product cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you alive from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City News Stance Studios, joined as usual with John. How are you doing, man? Doing great, thanks. Yeah?
+
+[0:21] Yep. Good? Yeah, just great. Yeah. Loving the humidity.
+
+[0:24] Oh, yeah, it's a lot of fun. Well, glad I wasn't out in the storm last night or on the subway for that matter. I was in the storm. And you know what I love about this weather here? It's a cockroach paradise.
+
+[0:32] Yeah. The biggins, the ones that come up from the ground. Well, do you see all the flooding from last night? The subway and everything? Yeah.
+
+[0:38] I mean, I'm crazy. Thankfully didn't see it in person. Yes, agreed. Hey, and for those of you that uh I don't know where you live, but in New York, you know what rain does? It kills business.
+
+[0:48] Unless people are already in your restaurant or bar, in which case they stay for a long time. No one wants to go out with rain. You have that same problem, John or no? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[0:56] Sucks. Uh got Joe Hazen rocking the panels behind me. How you doing? I'm doing very well. Good to see you.
+
+[1:03] Good to see you. I'm told that Los Angeles still exists, but neither of our two Los Angeles folks, Nastasia the Hammer Lopez, nor uh Jack Hinsley, Jackie Molecules, are here today. But we do have in the upper left-hand corner our Vancouver Island contingent. Quinn, how you doing? I'm good.
+
+[1:22] Calling your questions to 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507. Today's special guest, we actually have two. There's one person here who doesn't necessarily want to be on the air, but she's gonna be. Once you're in the studio, you're part of the conversation.
+
+[1:36] We have Edward Poe from Edwards Age Meets, long time fan of your product, sir. Good to have you on. And uh his wife, Keani Poe. And are you also a meat person or no? Awesome.
+
+[1:49] You also meet? All right, so it's like a club love me. But do you are you like part of this like a family business? Is both are both of you doing the business or no? That's all him.
+
+[1:56] No, it's just me. It's just me. He's a man. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[1:59] She helps with like, you know, promotion, social media, and that sort of stuff. But yeah. She keeps me keeps me pushing. Yeah. So I had you uh we wanted to have you on the program for a while because we're we're fans of the product.
+
+[2:11] Turn you know, every time I give it to someone, they they enjoy it. We'll talk about that in a little bit, but now is the time. Even with you know, a relatively smaller group, what do you guys have going on in the past week? Anyone, everyone join in. What do you got?
+
+[2:21] Oh, so we flew in on Friday, and then we just enjoying New York City, you know. It's uh checking out some new restaurants that we haven't been to and um doing a lot of walking, sightseeing, but yeah. Where have you been eating? Oh, we went to oh my god, we've been wanting to go to uh Residora for a while, and that was amazing. Like the pasta there just blew my mind.
+
+[2:44] That like ravioli wavo, it's like, oh my god, it just blew my mind. Yeah, yeah. It was really good. I'm sorry to say I've not been. Yeah, but I really like to get home.
+
+[2:55] But it's like apparently all the pasta is made fresh daily, scratched by hand. That's glad that Nastasia's not here. You know how she hates fresh pasta. Does she really? Oh, she hates fresh pasta.
+
+[3:05] Why? Uh well, she's ornery, one. Okay. And two, uh, you know, I I think the issue is is I think she thinks people are trying to make pastas that should be dried fresh. That's her main gripe.
+
+[3:18] I mean, there are pastas that like, you know, like a like a raviolo, you gotta make that. You know what I mean? It's not like you can't, yeah, you can't have it frozen or dried. Or dried. You can't have it's not like imagine like imagine someone made like uh freeze dried, like a freeze-dried meat stuffing on the inside of like a dried you everything you could get that to work, John?
+
+[3:37] No. You're like, no. No, no. Sounds incredibly unappealing. And so her, you know, her old pasta business was uh like dried pasta, par cooked IQ'd, and then like flashed out.
+
+[3:50] Because you know how everyone, most everyone, they par cook their stuff and then they flash it out because no one's got like, you know. By the way, where the hell do they come up with the pasta cooking numbers on the box that are invariably crazy wrong? Is it just me or are they crazy wrong for everyone? Yeah, they're crazy wrong. I mean, like just like outlandishly bad.
+
+[4:09] Yeah, they're really bad. And it's eight to twelve minutes, right? But that four minute time range can make the pasta terrible. Yeah. Right?
+
+[4:19] I mean, it's like, and depending on like your water temperature, how how much is boiling, how much salt you got in there. I mean, it's like And if they say eight to eight to whatever, which is a huge stupid range, you know I'm checking that at six. Oh, absolutely. You know what I mean? Maybe it's because of the uh, you know, the folks from Florence.
+
+[4:38] Don't they like their pasta really soft? Do they really? No, I mean like I don't know. Like I, you know, at most really not authentic. Listen, you know what?
+
+[4:46] Just another strike against the Tuscans. You know what I'm saying? It's like they first the no salt in the bread, now you're saying they slop up their pastas, sloppy sloppy. You know what I mean? It's like I didn't hadn't heard that, but you know, I I I believe you.
+
+[4:59] I believe you. Um, yeah, those numbers are crazy though. I mean, I'm talking, and I'm a schmo too. Like I'll do stuff like dump a bunch of frozen peas in with the pasta for the last couple of minutes of cooking. You know what I mean?
+
+[5:11] Just because I can't be bothered to cook them separately. And still, it doesn't, it never takes what it says on the package. Not ever. Mm-mm. Nope.
+
+[5:19] Never. Never. Never, never, never. Yeah. Hey, what are your thoughts?
+
+[5:23] Anyone, pasta, sorry, more pasta. All right. What are your thoughts on these? Some of these modern shapes fall apart when you cook 'em. You haven't noticed this?
+
+[5:32] Like so like I like look, I don't like a flav I don't like a a a shape that when you cook it, like all the parts fly off of it like an exploded spaceship and it's just like a pile of chum. You know what I mean? Yeah. Hate that. What are your what's your favorite?
+
+[5:47] What are your favorite shapes? What are your go another? What are your go-to shapes when you're when you're making pasta? What are your go-tos? I'm gonna say orchetti.
+
+[5:54] Really? I love orchetti. You buy the semis, the semi hard, the semi-dries? I buy the fully dried ones. I like the fully dried ones.
+
+[6:02] So it has a real firm inside. Yeah, it's like so it's really hard to like overcook that sucker and like make it mushy. Like the f like the people in the forange like. So you want a relatively small pile of dense pasta. Yeah.
+
+[6:14] Not like a relatively large pile of like you're not a radiator man. No, no, no. No. I mean, and I like I like spaghetti. Yeah.
+
+[6:23] Uh I think it's super versatile, right? For like a lot of things. I almost never go I I'm almost never choosing that as my gauge. I'm always either going like thinner or flatter. Or like long and h I love long and hollow.
+
+[6:37] Yeah. Like a buccatini? Yeah, love. Yeah. But that stuff takes forever to cook.
+
+[6:42] Doesn't it? I feel like for me it takes forever to cook. That eight to twelve minutes on the box is way over twelve minutes. You know my issue with those things is uh who I hate. I hate I I hate like waiting for it to sag into the water.
+
+[6:56] Yeah. Oh, so the trick. So well not the trick, but the w the way I started cooking like the noodles, rice, spaghetti, linguini, angel hair, bouquetine. I actually like angel hair. Um, I cook it in a in a pan now.
+
+[7:09] Like a fish poach? Yeah, so like a like a, you know, basically like a saute pan, big fourteen inch saute pan, water, salt, put them in there. They lay flat. And they actually cook faster, I find, than like trying to put it in a pot, like halfway in, and then getting that end soft and then kind of swirling it in and trying to get it in. And then it's actually cooks even.
+
+[7:30] I'm guessing I'm guessing you have a pretty high-powered stove though. Um here's why I ask. It's a gas. Wide, a wide surface area is gonna have a lot more evaporation. And so unless you keep it covered, yeah, it's gonna take a while to come.
+
+[7:42] But if you cover it, it should be fine. Yeah, yeah, I cover it. But then does it have a problem with like you know how when you cover a pasta once it's boiling, do you have to have like a quick eye on it? Do you have a glass lid on your pot? Mm-hmm.
+
+[7:51] There you go. Yeah, glass lid, and I'm always and I'm standing there the whole time watching it. Yeah, my big pot, my big pot doesn't have a glass lid, so like as soon as I put a lid over my wide, wide pan is metal. And so, like, I don't know what's going on in there, man. And so, like, all of a sudden it's gonna start like flying over the edges.
+
+[8:07] But like, listen, don't for anyone listening, this isn't it sounds like an excellent trick, but just remember to use the cover. Don't sit there forever. Also, oh yeah. Oh my god, my wife gets so mad at me in the summertime because any boiling water in the house at all in the whole house is like a freaking sauna. You know what I mean?
+
+[8:22] Oh my god, especially in New York City. Oh god sucks. She's like, why is it why is it stuck in here? And then she goes in, she's like, You're boiling water. It's like you asked for pasta.
+
+[8:32] You know, you know what I mean? It's like you asked for it. You know, I don't know. Anyways, uh, all right. Uh what about you, John?
+
+[8:40] What do you got? Nothing super exciting other than that, uh, Keith and his family from Public City Provisions came by last week. Nice seeing them. Ready to listeners. Yeah.
+
+[8:50] Got some swag. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We have a lot, a lot. Yeah.
+
+[8:54] A lot. Public provisions and flower city. Like I have to say, most of them were heavier gauge for what's go what's going on, yes. At the moment. So, like, you know.
+
+[9:03] But for Rochester weather, it's good. Rochester weather is good. And when this when this when they as soon as this like more fall type weather, we'll we'll we'll roll it, we'll get a picture in the studio with the stuff on. Exactly. Yeah.
+
+[9:13] Yeah. Uh I didn't get to go to Rochester this year. I know. I heard. I'd like to go.
+
+[9:18] You should go. I know. Why wouldn't you go? Have you done any of the upstate New York stuff? No.
+
+[9:23] Chump. I know. Why? Why do you hate upstate New York so much? I don't.
+
+[9:27] I just need to go do it. It appears that you hate it. I guess it would appear so, but there's no hit. Find the time and go do it. Have you done Toronto?
+
+[9:36] No, never. No, because I was gonna make fun of you if you had flown over all of New York State and not seen anything in New York. You've been to Saratoga, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've been up there and driven through everything, but I haven't like drive through now.
+
+[9:49] Yes, exactly. Okay. Yeah, yeah. All right. Yeah.
+
+[9:52] I like the cat skills, but yeah, I mean, what's the one? The hell man. Yeah, I don't I don't know what to tell you. Sorry. Okay.
+
+[9:58] Uh what about you, Quinn? What do you got? Uh actually I have something very uh apropos. I have um some dry aged pork chips that I made, and we fried one up this weekend. It's pretty good.
+
+[10:16] Okay, well, I'm gonna let you tell Edward exactly what your protocol was, but how large was the piece you were aging and what was when you say dry a fridge, it was actually hanging somewhere. Or on a fridge or in a fridge somewhere. Again, we have the um dry aging wraps. It's like a membrane that's sort of regulate the nostril. Uh huh.
+
+[10:44] I've tried them. Why don't you like them? Well, they so they do the job in terms of like releasing the moisture, but you're you're not you're missing one key component, which is like the mold and the bacteria involvement in the process, which really adds to the flavor profile of the product. So you can definitely achieve more tenderness, um, but you're gonna lack the flavor profile and the depth of flavor from like actually not being in a bag, right? So that's that's the only problem with it.
+
+[11:18] Um I found it it's good for like a home setup. You know, I would say I've tried it for like a 35 to 45 day on beef, and it works fine, but the flavor profile is vastly different between something in a dry in a in a dry drink bag, membrane type bag, and actually hung in uh you know you have a cultivated bacteria mold, you know, environment going that actually gets on the rind or the pellicle of the meat and actually penetrates into the flavor profile. Okay. Right now, back Quinn, now now so I want to get I'm gonna I'm gonna piece by piece go through this thing. I know I know I love it.
+
+[11:55] So were you doing uh roast queen or were you doing chops? We burned in a full half pig, right? So we had the entire loin primal in two pieces. So we actually still have the other half of the full blowing uh aging as well. So I'm trying to picture this.
+
+[12:20] What is it like how long is each piece? Like 10 inches. Okay, I don't know the measurements. Again, we have we had like I want to say the whole only cut in half eight ribs. Yeah, so so I think Quinn's probably talking about like the whole entire loin problem.
+
+[12:37] So it's basically like the pork chops. Right. So the rib side, the ribeye section and the pork chops, plus like the strip side, which is like the New York type where and then you got the the bone in between, right? So you got the rib bones, and then you've got the like T bone kind of section that's in between that. So when you get as a primal, you get that whole end basically it's from cut from the right after the shoulder to the tail end right before the sirloin.
+
+[12:59] That's the whole prime. So if he's cutting in half, it's still like a foot long. It's probably when we when we get those, it's probably about you're making like a three-foot long. It's it's probably about 30 inches long, depending on the animal. The whole one.
+
+[13:12] Yeah, the whole loin with like one side. It's probably about 30 inches long on average. Um, depending on the breed, depending on where you're getting it from the producer, that sort of stuff. But on average, I would say about anywhere between 24 to 30 inches long. All right, cool.
+
+[13:24] And now, Quinn, how much fat was left, like bone and fat covering the outside? Now, how much of the actual meat face that would dry out was exposed to the uh bag? Just the ends, like did you leave a good amount of fat around it? We did membrane, not bag. So we had pretty pretty minimal exposure.
+
+[13:44] We still had full fat cap, full skin on the one side, and then so we just had two faces. And again, this was pork, so the first section we only left about 24 days, and then so it didn't dry out uh that much. What do you think about leaving skin on as opposed to skin off fat on? I so for pork, I I've tried it both ways. Uh skin on, it helps preserve a bit more product, meaning like your yield is better.
+
+[14:14] But it protects it a little bit too much almost from for like the yield purpose. Um the flavor profile doesn't quite get as good as with skin off. Skin off. So skin on, fat, skin, fat on, skin off. Fat on, skin off.
+
+[14:34] Yeah. And we leave only a certain amount of fat. We don't want to leave too much fat on there as well, because we really want that flavor to like from the pellicle that forms on the outside to really penetrate beyond that first like quarter of a millimeter, right? So skin on is good, but it doesn't it helps pres, you know, it helps with the yield. It just doesn't add to the flavor.
+
+[14:55] Random quote random question uh before we go on how much of the dry age fat characteristic is actually from the intramuscular fat, and how much of it is like the polyunsaturated fatty acids that are just part of the molecules of like they're you know part of the cell memory stuff. You mean like the flavor profile? Yeah. The dry age flavor profile. Uh I'd say it's both.
+
+[15:18] It's both because so I found that the intramuscular fat has a different flavor profile slightly than the stuff in the fat cap. The fat cap is definitely more like saturated fat. It's like heavier, like you know, like lard kind of fat, right? And it's it's got a it's got a different flavor profile than the stuff in between like the muscles. Right.
+
+[15:40] I mean, I guess what I mean is that I know that like every fat deposit in the animal is different, characteristic, you know, solids, uh, solids, liquids, uh blah, blah, blah, blah. But what I guess what I mean is like lamb, the the characteristic note, flavor notes in lamb, for instance, are fat-based, but not necessarily just the fat. It's the actual like cell membrane fats, like polyunsaturated fatty acid. Right. So even in a completely lean, like for instance, you have an aged filet, which has very little fat in it, I'm assuming, right?
+
+[16:15] But yet it probably still has a dry age. And it would be, I think, interesting to taste something that has very little, either intramuscular or fat cap age, along with something that has, you know, both kinds of fat. What do you find is the difference? So there's definitely a cleaner flavor in the protein when there's less fat, intramuscular or fat cap. Um, so if you're talking about, for example, like a tenderloin cut, right?
+
+[16:41] Whether whether it's whether it's hog or beef, you're gonna have a cleaner, more like pure pork flavor. Um, whereas if you're looking at like a rib chop that's kind of like on the rib side, that's got a lot more fat in it, you're still gonna get those pork flavor, but it's not gonna be as intense, right? You're gonna get more um nuttiness and kind of like umami from the fat versus the meat. So all that umami, that roasted um kind of caramelization flavors, those mushroom notes, majority of that comes from the fat of the animal. Like fat, fat, the actual fat you could see.
+
+[17:19] The fact you can see, whether it's the cap or the intramuscular fat. And then the protein actually imparts a different flavor profile, more like the actual, like what you would think beef would taste like when you think beef, I want beefy flavor, right? Like you can get like um, so like you make like a beef stock and you like reduce that thing's really heavy down, and you go, oh yeah, that tastes like beef when you taste it. That's kind of like what the protein itself tastes like when you have like a leaner protein. So you know, it's it's a good mix when you have both of those components because you you're getting all these different flavor profiles that kind of hit your palate at different times and kind of coats your palate at different times.
+
+[17:58] Speaking of beef and uh aging, but in a different way, I just got through uh this book called Escolfier and Ritz. It's about like Cesar Ritz and Augusta Escolfier, like opening, you know, the first uh Savoy Hotel and you know all that stuff. I'm trying to get in touch with the author because I think it'd be fun to have him on. But his he's actually the nephew of MFK Fisher, the great nephew of MFK Fisher. Yeah, cool.
+
+[18:22] Anyway, we'll see if we can get him on. I emailed him. Nothing back. But that's cool. Uh interesting, like, and I it's been a long time since I've read my uh English translation of uh what's the what's he what's it called in French Geek Kulinair?
+
+[18:37] Uh but Esculfier was using for stock really old animals, like when he was doing beef. Like he was like, oh, these animals that I can get here are too in England are too young, they're like, well, you know, four years old. I'm like, what? And I don't know if it was a miss speak in the because I was listening to the book, but I want to go back and research it because even old beef here is so young. I mean, I've had one or two seven-year-old pieces of cow.
+
+[19:00] Anyway, uh if do you we'll we'll get into it. I just don't want to lose it when you're saying beef beef. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know what I don't like?
+
+[19:09] I don't like I once bought a bunch of beef shins, and I was like, I th I thought it was gonna taste good, braised like a sububuco, and I was like, nah. Nah. What's a good use of a beef shin? You mean like shack, like shank? Like, I don't know.
+
+[19:23] Like, like it looks like it's like if Asubuco grew up and got red and bloody. You know what I mean it's just like and when you eat it that way it's just like I had a really terrible assubuco about a month ago just the worst asabuko I've ever had in my life. Yeah I'm not a big fan of Asibuco. Oh really I grew up eating it. My mom used to make it that was one of the things that she made so I have a serious soft spot sure for asubuco and like you know the the you know you the the bones the veal bones are just the right width that you can take your pinky and pop up pop the marrow out so you know she would tie it up she would cook you know she would she would flour them she would tie them salt pepper flour and then she would like par fry them and then you know put some you know uh some alliums in par fry them and then braise it braise it out and then at the end like tomatoes and she would put the parsley and the grated lemon on the top and she would always make a really good risotto go with it.
+
+[20:19] So we would eat an infinite amount of that does sound good. Yeah yeah yeah it does sound good yeah you know real moist like the one I had was dry say this on air it tasted like it remember when in like Disneyland or Disney World you buy those crappy turkey drumsticks they were that dry you know what time like that with smoked turkey legs yeah just like like you know like asebuco first of like it should like it shouldn't be presented shank style first of all the pieces were too long you know what I mean I haven't made shank uh like lamb shank in long well sorry anyway so quinn so where are we so you have we're back we're back Quinn sorry so what are the two aging times what are the two aging times you have on the two pieces unwrapped around 24 days and the other piece is still going well okay, so it's now at like twenty-seven or something like that. How long are you gonna get it to go? And before you answer that, what do you think? Yeah.
+
+[21:18] Shoot for six weeks. How do you move from days to days to weeks? What the hell? So you're talking like you're talking, I don't know, some odd number of like like three how many weeks? Three and a half weeks and six weeks.
+
+[21:33] All right. So uh uh Edward, what do you think are the sweet spots on pork? Second. What do you think? What are your sweet spots on pork?
+
+[21:42] Are there sweets first of all an interesting question I interesting to me is um so for instance when you're cooking salmon or many fish, uh they go through kind of two peaks of being good, and in between those two peaks, there's a valley of not good. Or with uh aging spirits, you'll have stuff that's very good as a new like, you know, liqueurs. You'll have something that's very good as a new make, then it turns to garbage again, and then it gets good again. Like is it this is there a similar thing with aging meats where like it gets it has like a peak and then it goes back down but comes back up again, or is it pretty much just it it progresses in one direction? Um, I would say it progresses in one direction for the most part, and you there's definitely a peak in each different cut.
+
+[22:29] So the stuff that I have, everything is basically being been tested. And so like ribeyes are our Angus ribey, those are only dried for a hundred days, right? Because that is kind of like where it's peaked in you know, in our opinion. You know, we've tested things all the way up to 210 days for that Angus breed and that same primal. And after a hundred days, you start to lose a little bit.
+
+[22:57] And you you gain some other things, but it starts to become like less of a steak, right? It becomes more like it loses that beefy f flavor profile. And you it's a novelty, becomes more like we do 210 days, like a few kinds, like a few times a year as a special runoff, and those don't taste like beef. They taste almost like cured ham. Huh.
+
+[23:21] Yeah. And there's no salt involvement with the process, right? It just tastes almost like cured ham. The texture is more dense, but still tender, right? And it's good, but for me, it's like, okay, well, if I want a ribeye steak, that's not it.
+
+[23:37] Like if I want to, if I'm craving a ribeye steak, that's not it. So, you know, it just changes, right? It goes, it there's definitely peaks and valleys. But I would say like ribey's are best at 100 days in in our environment. When they're s when they're being then what size are you are you doing the whole thing?
+
+[23:55] We're doing the whole entire um we get we get a one on we get 107s. Okay. So the whole entire primal, it's the lifter cap, the whole entire cap on, chine bone cell on everything, and it gets dried in that in that format. Fun fact there's a game that a lot of people play out here from the New York Times called spelling bee. And you have to make words with the seven letters that they have.
+
+[24:18] They don't accept chine. I'm like, hello, word. That's a word. It's a word. Get this.
+
+[24:25] Get this. They accept Kalaloo, the green. Right? But think of that. Is that a word?
+
+[24:32] Yeah. Yeah, that's a word. Because I every once in a while I put I type random like food words in. It's not gonna do it. You know what I mean?
+
+[24:38] Like it t it'll take, I think, like it takes like one of these, tartaric, but not malic. I forget, like, like it's like all these like random things. But then I'm like, Chine, like, chine, that's a word. That is a word. The giant bone dude, it's not like yeah, yeah.
+
+[24:51] Yeah, it's it's it's yeah, it's not even like a new word, it's been a it's a word that's been around for older than me. I mean you say it any to say it to anyone that like has ever like lived near with someone that cuts meat and they know what you know what I mean? Yep, yeah, weird. But yeah, but there's definitely peaks and valleys. Um so for like our stuff, we we try to we've we've put certain dates on it, and like, okay, well, this specific cut, this specific breed, this is where it's best.
+
+[25:20] This is like the peak product, right? Texture, flavor profile, what you would expect like that cut of beef or pork or lamb or goat to eat or it tastes like, right? How's aged goat? Delicious. Yeah, yeah, amazing.
+
+[25:35] Does it become less like just lamb adjacent and does it become more like something like goat, like some goatey thing that so I started doing goat, oh gosh, like a few years ago. So we have a um a rancher up in northern California that we work with that we're that we're just kind of like doing our own product, so goat and we do longhorns. So the goat, it's basically it's raised on the land and then we we feed it out, eats grass, so super clean product. But once it gets dry aged, and I've served it to people, not telling them what it is, right? They go, Oh, what kind of beef was that?
+
+[26:17] Wow. And I go, it's not beef. And they go, no way. I said, it's not beef. They're like, like, what is it?
+
+[26:24] I'm like, taste it again. Like, it tastes like beef. Like, it's not beef. So it's super lean. I feel like goat is probably like the protein that most people kind of brush off because when they hear goat, most people think lamb, but more gamey.
+
+[26:43] Yeah. Or also like hacked up, hacked up, yeah, stewed. You know, it's it's culturally like specific for certain types of food, right? Like Indian food. Um, you know, they use a lot of goat for like stews and Caribbean.
+
+[26:56] Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Caribbean type food. Um, Filipino food, they use a lot of goat for like stews, and it's like long cooked, you know, just slow cooked, long cooked, just cooked to a pulp, so it's like shreds. But when we do the goat, we actually take the animal and we cut it up and push it up and portion it out so you're eating like steaks. Wow, in the goat.
+
+[27:14] In the mid-90s, goat was cheap. I think I've said this on air. In the mid 90s, goat was cheap. And so my butcher who used to supply a lot of like Caribbean markets, he would get, he was getting goats in and he was cutting them up. So he used to give me like I'll be like, yo, can you get me a rack of goat?
+
+[27:30] And he's like, Yeah, I can get you a rack of goat. And so, like, and it was so and then it's not any more cheaper, but it used to be a lot cheaper than the lamb. Delicious. It's it's super good. And you know, and then once we dry age it, it's remarkable.
+
+[27:41] It's like we take the whole entire shoulder and we so most of the time the shoulder gets cut up into chunks and it gets becomes stew meat. So we take it after we dry it, and we cut this whole thing, the whole front clip up into steaks. So probably like 80% of it becomes quick cook steering steaks. And does the dry aging cause it to be more quick cook in terms of like, does it do anything? I've never thought about it strangely.
+
+[28:08] I don't know why. That what does the dry aging do to the connective tissue in terms of softening that as opposed to just the other thing? Yeah, it softens it tremendously. So you could take something that would otherwise not be a quick cook and turn it into a quick cook. Yeah, and that's that's what that's what's happened with the goat.
+
+[28:22] So those parts of that animal, if you don't dry age it, it's too tough to eat as a quick cook. Right. There's isn't it's like you you're gonna be chewing for minutes before you can even swallow it. Which Americans don't seem to appreciate. Which Americans don't seem to appreciate.
+
+[28:36] They want everything to melt in your mouth, right? Yeah like you know, we're we're you know, I'm Asian, so we you know, we like a little bit of like texture, we like a little bit of chew, we like a little bit of like resistance. We don't want things to just kind of fall apart like like play-doh in our mouth, right? Uh when it comes to food. Some things we wanted to do that, but not everything, right?
+
+[28:53] Me, I want it to be tender, I want to chew a little bit, you know, like uh I want to chew like three or four times before I can swallow it. Yeah, it is tough to sell Americans, especially on things like chicken, to have that like an old chicken, which is delicious, hard to sell to an American. And that stuff, can you age, can you age the toughness out of an old chicken? I've tried to age chicken, it's not doable. All right.
+
+[29:16] At least I haven't, I I was not successful. It's like half of it does spoiled and rotted. It had to be thrown away. Well, have you done like the pheasant thing where you hang it until it's rotten? Do you not I mean I don't love rotten bird taste that much.
+
+[29:31] No, I don't either. But I blame myself. Yeah. I I I blame me. You know what I mean?
+
+[29:37] I'm was raised in styro meatland, and so like I can't appreciate like, you know, as the the old uh, you know, English term be till it's high. You know what I mean? Hung till it's high. You know what I mean? Like uh, you know, till like the like till it basically till the neck pulls off because it's like rotting from the inside out.
+
+[29:56] Exactly. You know what I mean? Like, nah. No. Thank you.
+
+[29:58] No, thanks uh all right quinn you know what I'm gonna ask you and I hope that I hope this doesn't happen but did you save one of the 24 day after you cut it open did you save and pack down and freeze so that you can do a side by side with the one that you have aged longer oh Dave I I've I've done here even better. Okay we saved uh 24 uh day chop and then actually the rest of that section we rewrapped and we're gonna have also a a middle point as well all right small round of applause for Quinn on getting that one uh right Jill if you call it up yeah yeah yeah now let me ask you this did you cut a chop off day one uh yeah by the way uh Edward similar to goat have you have you tried uh aging mutton like adult sheep I have not no I have not tried that that's an experience is it really can I just say it's about mutton I've never I've never had real mutton I've never I went to Keene's I waited for the pandemic to be over the mutton chop I was like oh the mutton chop it's cool looking because it's a double right they leave the the back on and it comes out looking like I don't know, like something from a Hannibal Lecter. And uh I was like, and it's like it's basically just like Lamplus. It's not like it's not like it's like it's like literally like at the year mark. Like the minute they can call it mutton, they kill it.
+
+[31:43] You know what I mean? It's not like So how old is it? I mean, uh when they call it mutton, quote unquote. Well, technically anything over a yearling is mutton, right? Isn't that the law?
+
+[31:52] Or what not the law, the but the parlance? Well, yeah, but I mean it's still pretty darn young at a year. Right. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like old school mutton.
+
+[32:01] Yeah. Hoggets. That's such a funny term. Mutton to me, like I want to taste like I want to taste like a couple years old at least. Yeah.
+
+[32:08] You know what I mean? Sure. Yep. But it's hard to find in New York. Yeah, I don't know where you would find that even in America.
+
+[32:17] Listen, someone's gotta get Edward some freaking good mutton that he can age. Anyone that can hear this, it has a supply, as long as you're not an evil person, you'll age it right now. Absolutely. In my obviously limited experience, the muttoniness of it does intensify. It doesn't become beefy the way that uh Edward described the uh the goat sort of transforming.
+
+[32:45] But I I enjoyed the the result. I mean now you say goat transforming. I have a goat in a superhero costume in my head and it's not gonna leave. It's not gonna leave. It's my spirit animal, the goat.
+
+[33:00] Really? They freak me out. Like I kind of want them because they're the their pupils go in the kind of opposite direction from a sheep, right? So they kind of freak me out a little bit. I think that's why they're used as kind of Satan creatures.
+
+[33:13] Muttons or the goats. The goats. They're kind of used Satan creatures. Every time we talk about mutton, I keep thinking about that Seinfeld episode where uh Elaine has the mutton in her pockets and all the dogs keep running after her. Oh yeah.
+
+[33:24] Oh yeah. Yeah. You can find mutton in New York. Where did she get it? At Keynes?
+
+[33:29] Then I'm telling you, it wasn't real mutt. It's fine. Listen, it was delicious. Yeah. I don't want people to think that going to Keynes isn't a fun time because it is a fun time.
+
+[33:36] I'm just saying I want real mutton. Well, real mutton. Yeah. Don't, you know, don't give me lamb and call it mutton. Exactly.
+
+[33:44] You know what I mean? Yeah. No, no. Yeah. So like the goat we do, it's um they're two and a half years old.
+
+[33:49] Ooh. Before we eat before they get processed. So we we we we we let them really, really eat and develop that flavor profile. So how much does one of them so compared? So when I'm when so when I'm thinking of like standard the because the goats that I bought are on the same size order as like the lambs that we get.
+
+[34:09] So how much bigger are they bigger or are they just older? Um they're a little bit bigger. They're pretty pretty close to lamb size, though. So I'd say on average, hanging weight, they're um probably about eight seventy-five to eighty. Okay.
+
+[34:23] Hanging weight. So and what kind of yield do you get off of that? You know, the way we dry now, it's pretty good. We probably only lose about twenty five percent. Huh.
+
+[34:34] Yeah. So I was explaining, so Booker, so Booker is has been he's he's a like uh he doesn't eat meat, he eats fish still, right? Okay, so because you know, he the he like the all of the people they put in our mailboxes, they they put all of this stuff in our mailbox. And you know, he and he had some teachers that were vegetarians. So, anyways, he's vegetarian, uh, you know, pescatarian, although really he only eats salmon and tuna and not any vegetables.
+
+[35:02] He's never eaten a vegetable in his life, not willingly. Um he's basically a grizzly bear. He he he eats probably a a measurable percentage of all the salmon eaten in New York City. You know what I mean? Like anyway.
+
+[35:19] But um so I had to have, you know, once the conversation with him, I was like, he's I was like, you know, uh the none of these animals would have been raised other than to have them be slaughtered, which isn't to say that you know that it's not an argument one way or the other, but I'm like when an animal is on a farm or someone's raising it farm, it's an economic proposition. And so the animal, as soon as the animal is no longer a good economic proposition because it's not a companion, you know what I mean? That's when it goes. So what's the economic are they dual use for these goats? Are they dairy goats?
+
+[35:58] Are they are they wool wool goats? Like what like what like how what is causing them to raise a goat to be two years old if it's not gonna be two years worth more of meat. Um do they charge more because it's a better flavor? Yeah, so we just charge more because it's better flavor. So raising them to like two and a half years actually gives a better uh better, you know, flavor profile.
+
+[36:25] Because we try to like process them at a year, we try processing them at a year and a half, and two and a half years seem to be yielding the best flavor profile to start with, right? And weight wise. They're kind of finicky in terms of like health. They're hard to keep they're kind of hard to keep alive for the most part. They they get sick pretty easily.
+
+[36:49] Um and then when they get sick, we they they just you know, they just die off. They they're not like cattle where you're you know, you can nurture them a little bit or a hogs you can nurture them a little bit and then they get better. So goats are like super susceptible to like getting sick. And we don't use any kind of antibiotics or anything like that, or any kind of medic medicines to keep them healthier, right? We just let them just graze and um you don't jack them up.
+
+[37:13] We don't jack them up. No, so gotta jack them up. I'm kidding. So I guess it to people like me, do you have to do some education and be like, listen, because like when I hear that an animal is that age, I'm assuming that it was kept alive for some other reason because it's not gaining weight that much anymore. I mean it's like our chickens are what, six and a half weeks old, you know what I mean?
+
+[37:35] So do you have to do some education and be like, no, like actually we choose the age based on the flavor profile we want, but that's why it costs X, Y, or Z. Yeah. So so basically the flavor profile develops more because they have more time to eat what's on the earth, right? And so that flavor profile gets developed more in the fat, in the meat, but then the animal does get more tough, right? As it gets older, right?
+
+[38:01] So the difference between like a one-year-old and a two and a half year old goat, it's pretty substantial, even in like the actual chops, like where it's supposed to be the most tender part of the animal. Um, so if you take the animal to two and a half years, it has to be dry aged. Otherwise the chops are inedible. Like I almost not in edible, but they can't be cooked like lamb chops, right? They just can't be.
+
+[38:24] They're gonna be tough, they're gonna be super chewy, a lot of like connective tissue, so all that stuff needs to get broken down via the dry aging process. And and then once that happens, then the flavor profile is just off the charts. Um I once, and I mentioned it earlier on the show, I once had some cow that was like seven years old, which is like pushing it, right? Fat was yellow and like melting in my hands, like you had to keep it refrigerated or the fat would melt. Meat was tough because I don't think it I don't know how long it was aged.
+
+[38:56] I don't know that I loved it. I think that might have been too old. Have you ever had a super like I know that like it's hugely popular out in like Spain and whatnot to have the old meat? What are your thoughts on super old meat? I love it.
+
+[39:07] So we're developing, we've been developing um our own line, which is based off longhorn cattle. So we're taking longhorn cattle, uh, we're buying these things up at auction, and they're basically longhorn cattle that nobody wants, right? Because traditionally, like in Texas, most people they grow longhorns for the horns. And if the horns are not like perfect or the size they want, they essentially just get tossed. They call the whole, and then they just the whole animal gets turned into grind, which is you know, kind of a waste in my opinion.
+
+[39:38] Did longhorns taste good? So they do. So I had so the same friend, the rancher, I was like, you know, this is how this is how it started. I had this longhorn. He's probably like 10 years old, right?
+
+[39:53] And he, you know, they he was getting to the point where you know he had to, you know, be processed because he was getting too old. So I said, Well, what are you gonna do with that animal? So well, we're just gonna grind the whole thing. I said seems like an awful waste, no? She said, Well, you can't eat it any other way, it's tastes horrible.
+
+[40:11] It doesn't taste good, and it's too tough. I said, Well, have you has anybody tried to like dry age it? And then she's like, No. I was like, Well, okay, let's do it. So we processed that animal, and then we dry aged it.
+
+[40:25] And I'll tell you what, that meat, once it gets dried, it's so tender. In a fresh form, unaged form, I agree. It's it's super tough. It's unedible. But it's not metallic either, like so the trick is to feed it out with a grain diet for like 120 to 180 days.
+
+[40:47] So you send it to a finishing lot even though it's 10 years old or so we finish right there. So we finish it off. So so you know, it's been eating grass for you know 10 years of its life, and then we finish it for 120 days with barley, hops, and molasses. And does it pick up fat during the picks up a little bit more intramuscular fat, but it also imparts two interestingly, it imparts two different fat caps on the animal. So when you when we cut it, you can see a ribbon of yellow fat from the grass that it ate, and then a whitish fat from top?
+
+[41:21] Uh-huh. On the grain that we fed it. That's crazy. So when we dry age it, it's incredible because you've got these two different fat profiles on the animal that are just melding into the product. And then once we dry it, it's gotta be dry long.
+
+[41:34] It can't be dry for 35 days. It doesn't do anything. It's not gonna be tender enough. So we dry it for like the rib eyes, a hundred days. And it gets as tender if not more tender than our normal stuff.
+
+[41:45] And the flavor profile is off the charts because it's got more marbling than like prime. Um, and it's got two different flat profile, you know, fat profiles as well. So it's incredible. All right. Well, that's I'm gonna have to send you some when we get when we get our next batch.
+
+[42:00] That's uh that's a sale right there. And you know I'm gonna know I'm gonna try that. Yeah, yeah. All right, so before we run out of time, I know we have some questions for you. Let's get to it.
+
+[42:07] Oh, uh, this was an earlier question, we're gonna bring it back up since you're the expert. Uh Rock Baker asked a while ago, there's been a thread in the Discord about burgers. What's the best blend? What component adds the most flavor, et cetera. I'd like to hear they wanted to hear our opinions, but I want to hear your opinion.
+
+[42:22] Now, I don't know how much you're willing to say about your dry age mix, but I will say I've said on air, this is my favorite burger meat. Uh beef, you know, I don't love the term beef crack, but fine. Fine, it's fine. It's a great what don't you like about it? I don't know, crack.
+
+[42:36] I mean, like I, you know, my age, like I, you know, the pan, you know, the um crack epidemic. Anyway, but like uh, yeah, so what I like about that particular mix, I don't know what's in it, but like it's you know how like sometimes some dry age meat mixes for for burgers, it's just too much. It's just like it's too much. It's like it's like it's like it's like you opened a vac bag and you're chewing on the on the chun on the bones from the fat bag or something like it's like I'm like uh like you know what I mean? Like that.
+
+[43:07] But yours is like light, it's like not at all, even if one you're not a dry aged person in terms of like that heavy, heavy dry age profile, you're gonna like this one. So yeah, so like so. The question is A like what do you do to keep that thing constant? Kind of what what's in it, how does it work, and B to Rock Baker's point, what to you makes a good burger mix? Um good burger mix.
+
+[43:37] So beef crack came about because you know, when you go to like a restaurant and you order a burger, right? Like a nice restaurant, and they ask you, how do you want it? How do you want it cooked? And everybody says, medium rare, right? And the reason why you choose meat and rare is because you don't want it to be dry, right?
+
+[43:56] But if you actually think about ground beef and what it is, ground beef tastes better medium rare or well done, right? Think like the ground beef in like a bolonese or a meatloaf, a good meatloaf. Right? You gotta hammer the heck out of it, but it actually flavor-wise tastes better than medium rare, right? So the idea was what if I can make a grind that what if we could develop a grind that was well done.
+
+[44:21] You cook it well done pretty much. So you get that flavor profile that everybody loves, but it's as juicy, if not juicier, than a medium rare burger. Right? That was the whole premise of creating this grind. Um say I go medium, I can't do it.
+
+[44:38] I can't do well done, I can't do it. I can't do it. It's not in me, man. Well, I mean, so like if you do smash burgers, it's gonna be well done. Right, sure, sure.
+
+[44:44] Uh but if you know like nice thick patty, yeah, medium. I'm an I'm an intermediate. Like that's the thing. I think everyone's either either they turn either either they're they're their burgers are one molecule thick, or they're like like like softballs. You know what I mean?
+
+[44:58] It's like hello, yeah. Like, you know, like there is an intermediate ground here. Yeah. No, there isn't. Everybody wants their own little like custom spin on a burger, right?
+
+[45:10] Because a burger is so, you know, it's so it's such a common thing in America, right? People want to distinguish themselves a little bit different when they have a burger place or they div up their own burger, right? There's something unique about it. Um I would say if you're doing your own grind, you I mean, you definitely want like 20%. So you like yours in a smash then?
+
+[45:31] If you like it well done, you like yours in a smash or you don't? I I like it both. I like smash and and I like uh, you know, a nice thicker patty, kind of like you gotta get with George Motz. Have you ever gone to his place? You should go to his place now.
+
+[45:44] I know I wanted I wanted to go to this place. Yeah. Yeah, I I might I might go there before we leave. I don't know whose uh burger he's doing right now because you know he does this. He does his stuff and then he does like the burger of the month.
+
+[45:56] Yeah, all the regional stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's cool.
+
+[45:59] I I'd love to go there. But yeah, I mean, if you're doing your own grind, I would say, you know, you gotta have at least 20% fat in it. Um you're an 80-20 fellow. 8020. 8020.
+
+[46:11] Uh, you know, especially if it's like your own grind, you know, if you're doing like buying stuff from the store. Um lot of stores don't carry the 8020 more. The like minimum the highest they do is like 85. And then like the idiots with the 937, it's like yeah. Yeah, don't bother.
+
+[46:28] Is there any way to save that? If that's all you have access to. If like you're buying at a store, can you like is there anything you can put into it? Yeah, you could. I mean, you could definitely get like um some New York steaks, right?
+
+[46:41] And like trim the fat off and then just weigh it out, you know, ounce or gram wise and just add it, you know, add into it. It's not gonna be super accurate because the grind's already done, right? Right. But you could do that and you could probably save it a little bit. Yeah, if you're gonna do that, you might as well just buy some, you know, sirloin or brisket or um chuck, you know, and then just grind it yourself.
+
+[47:04] On burgers as opposed to sausages where you're worried about buying, how important is the uh temperature of the grinder and the meat when you're doing burger meat as opposed to I know it's like super important sausage, it's gonna break down, you're gonna knocking me on the muff, all that stuff. But like in in hamburger meat, do you also think it's like super crucial to get real cold on your grinder? Um I would say on normal grind, yeah. Um, you know, for us, we keep it super cold just because we do use quite a bit of dry all the fat that we use in it, majority of the fat that we use in the grind is all dry fat. So that the fat actually renders really, really like easy, even at like slightly warmer temperatures.
+
+[47:45] So we gotta keep it super cold so that the grind um stays intact. Yeah, especially when we grind the fat so it doesn't just get all mushy and mucky and icky. Like we were on the we were always told like in the freezer on the verge of like when you're touching it, like on the verge of stiff, you know what I mean? That's how we were always. Yeah, uh yeah, yeah.
+
+[48:03] You you want it to be pretty much like when it comes out, it's coming out almost like pellets. Um but we do, you know, we do we do a specific grind process. So the second time we grind it, so we grind it twice. The second time we grind it is when all the stuff gets really pulled together, like all the all the different cuts, all the different fats all get pulled together. But it's like um, but we use a lot of different stuff.
+
+[48:27] We use seven different cuts, it's different uh cuts of dried fat, dry meat, undried fat, undried meat. A little bit of the undried fat is just whatever's on the unaged meat that's present there. We don't add any any accessory unaged fat to it. So and how for you as a business, how sustainable is that profile? Can you continue to make it?
+
+[48:53] Okay, yeah. So we we've been making that since I would say towards the end of 2019, and we've been able to keep it really consistent, which is um it's hard to do, you know, it's uh because it's a grind, it's a blend. So it we you know, through all these years, we've and I would ask my customers like, hey, like how is it taste? Like, oh yeah, it's just as good as before. You know, like I I don't think I've had anybody say, Oh yeah, this one was a little off or this one was a little different.
+
+[49:23] And we taste every batch that gets ground, so just to make sure it tastes exactly how we want, texture is what we want, you know. Nice. All right, let's see. What is the do you think we uh covered and smothered the rock baker question, John? Yeah, I think so.
+
+[49:37] Bruce Blingstein writes in uh I've never seen larger cuts like brisket or short rib plates that are dry aged. Would those benefit from dry aging? That's a good question. Um we've done it before, and we have some customers that want custom um requests for those. I don't think there's any benefit in there because most of those, those two cuts like brisket, rib plates, they're all gonna get slow cooked, right?
+
+[50:03] Usually on a smoker, right? So any flavor profile that you wouldn't you would expect to partake on the meat or the fat, it's gonna get wiped out or overshadowed by all that smoke flavor. And but once you long cook, do you think that most of the there's flavor, but like textural benefits are over overridden by long cooking? Yeah, it is because you know, like a brisket, you know, you're gonna cook it 12, 14, 16 hours. All that connective tissue is breaking down regardless of it's if it's aged or not, right?
+
+[50:34] Does it make the cooking process faster if you age it? I would say maybe a little bit, but not significantly. Um you're not waiting for St. Patrick's Day for your dry aged corned beef. No, no, no.
+
+[50:47] I want corn beef though the uh original way, the way the way it should be eaten, you know. You know? So by the way, are you more corn beef or more pastrami person? Pastrami. Yeah, me too, me too.
+
+[50:57] Pastrami. Pastrami. Yeah. Yeah. I like corned beef.
+
+[51:00] I love pastrami. Yeah. Hey, I like corn beef. I like person. I love pushrami.
+
+[51:03] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I could eat that. Yeah. A lot.
+
+[51:06] All right, Queen, what were we gonna say? I was gonna say a long time ago, I did dry age a brisket section, because at the time it was one of the one of the large pieces we could get. So I was just, you know, aging whatever I could get my hands on. And I actually took the dry aged flack. Yeah, I made a tartar.
+
+[51:33] It was pretty good. Yeah, that sounds good. Tartar. Crazy person. All right.
+
+[51:38] Because again, it's very lean. And then you get a little flavor development and it tenderizes, and you do a really fine dice. Mm-hmm. It worked out. All right.
+
+[51:49] All right. All right. Uh Azu 14 writes in what is the process for air quote discovering a new steak on the cow or some other animal? As an example, Kevin Smith at Beast in Cleaver a few years ago isolated a particular cut from the navel and started calling it a toro steak. Is it a matter of experimenting with different muscles and seeing if there's a new way to portion it or a muscle group that both eats well and makes business sense?
+
+[52:14] Yeah, I would say it's definitely a little bit of both. I mean, we've taken down all the parts in the animals and we've broken down all the different muscles, and just to see what like for example, like um like a whole chuck primal. There is probably three or four different muscles in there that should be pulled out if you're going to an experienced butcher, should be pulled out, and that should be utilized as a kind of like a more premium kind of steak, right? Like equivalent to like ribeye or New York or uh a coolat, you know, tenderloin, that sort of stuff. Um, but it takes a bit more labor to get to it.
+
+[52:54] And does it make business sense? It's hard because a lot of times on like these these muscles, there's only a few, there's only like one or two per per side of animals. So you could sell it, but it's like, well, if you got ten people that want it, and you only have two, you know, three four, you know, three or four sides of beef, you know, there's only so much to go around. So um it's one of those things we just break down and you know, it's it's becomes like a butcher's cut kind of thing. Um it's hard to make business sense out of those things, I would say, at least in my experience.
+
+[53:27] I have a question based off what you're saying there, Edward. So but then how did like hanger and skirt become so abundant, I guess, if there's only technically like one of those per animal, right? Because it's not mirrored on the other side, and those aren't necessarily like huge cuts themselves either. So is it just like the big meat companies just don't want to get to it, you think? Or it's just harder to get to than that diaphragm part?
+
+[53:51] Yeah, it's just harder to get to because you know you have like hangers and flanks, they have this, they're very thin muscle, and the muscle fibers run kind of like in a very thin strand, and then you have this thick layer of like sinew and like connected tissue that lays over. So you have to like go through it and like pull this stuff off without destroying the meat fibers. Uh, but it's become popular because people want it. It's by demand, and those pieces are a lot, you know, they're they're pretty good size for the most part, and you know, and if they can charge more for it then, which they do, yeah, then it becomes a a viable thing for them. But I I have a feeling that a lot of these places they're you know, a lot of places they're they're actually getting these cuts from other countries getting pulled off too, because you know, there's animals being used all over the all over the world.
+
+[54:40] And you know, a lot of times these cuts that we eat in the States, it's more specific to like the US, right? Even like West Coast, East Coast, like tri-tip is more like a west coast, West Coast thing. Uh, where's Picana from again? It's uh it's a it's a top store line. So it's the cap on top of the the whole the top store line.
+
+[55:01] You used to get that with the Australian, that was delicious. Yeah. And is that Australian genetics or from Australia? That's no, that's from Australia. That's purebred Australian Wagyu.
+
+[55:09] And it's being shipped over as sides, or what do you what what's what are you buying primals or what? No, that they're being shipped over as primals. Yeah, so they they don't they don't ship over sides. So we don't get sides of um the stuff that's imported is does not come in sides. It comes in primals.
+
+[55:24] Those those those were delicious. Yeah, I got you one. Really? Yeah, I brought you one. Oh man, that's delicious.
+
+[55:28] Dax Dax was like, that's my favorite of all time. Yeah, so it's purebred wagu genetics, but pasturaised. So it's uh great product. Uh before we I'm gonna have more questions from the listeners, we gotta get to gotta get to it quickly. But uh I noticed uh on your website you changed uh your shipping technology, right?
+
+[55:44] So what what's going on? Or not do you say it's like you have a new flat rate shipping situation? Yeah, so just to make it more simple for everybody, uh changed it a little bit ago. It's a it's just a flat rate next-day air um shipping uh kind nationwide. Um and so it just it's it's a flat rate, so no matter what the size of the order is, small, large.
+
+[56:03] And what are the economics of doing that as opposed to like teaming with gold belly or something like this? Um I mean, if you don't want to talk about it, I'm just the this is the kind of thing our listeners sometimes like to know business, weird business. If you don't have to talk about it. Yeah, you know what? And honest the honest answers I I don't know.
+
+[56:19] I have never looked at teaming up with Goldbelly uh to get this product out. So I I don't know. That might be a worthwhile, you know, investigation. Yeah. Let me uh let me rip through these because I didn't even ask you how you got into this.
+
+[56:32] It's so stupid. Uh Mathman says, uh I buy a quarter cow every year from a farmer, and part of it involves taking it to the butcher uh and ask and saying how I want things cut and divided up. Do you have any recommendations for fun or different cuts to ask for how to make the best out of my quarter cow? Quarter cow, it depends on which quarter, right? Yeah, it when you get a quarter cow, it's hard because they're gonna give you a lot of grind.
+
+[56:56] And they're gonna give you probably a few cuts of premium stakes, ribey's New York, stuff like that. Maybe a couple fillets. Um he mentions the Vacchio. I don't even know that cut. Vacchio, I think is flank.
+
+[57:09] Flank or it's it's uh you know, Spanish for flank. Any miracle cuts that's gonna make Math Man look like a rock star when they're talking to their processor? Ask for a chucka. Chuck eyes are great. Yeah.
+
+[57:22] Chuck guys are great or uh a chuck tender, if they can do a chuck tender, uh you'll love a chuck tender he'll love a chuck tender. Yo, yeah, give me some chuck tenders. Like that? Yeah, give me a chuckle. Don't grind it all.
+
+[57:30] Give me some chuck tenders. Don't don't don't don't don't put it in the stew meat, jerk. Like that? Yeah, just like that. All right.
+
+[57:35] All right, hold on. Kim writes, possible question uh for Edward. I'm interested in general thoughts about um Umai bags. Is that the name of the bag that we were talking about? Yeah, those membrane bags.
+
+[57:45] Yeah, also specifically, so we got you there, Kim. Also specifically, how do you uh how do you know if aged meat has gone the wrong way? I put a good meat uh good bit of meat in an Umay bag and then uh went on a long vacation. It was fifty-four days before I trimmed it, vacuumed, and froze it. Like uh so I guess the question here is how do you know if it's gone the wrong way or too far in one of those bags?
+
+[57:59] Um, I mean, if you're talking about spoilage, it's usually gonna be the smell. You know, smell it's gonna be a very prof it's gonna be a very profound spoilage smell in the meat. Um and you'll probably see like greenish build up. You know, it's kind of like the the meat gets mushy and it's really like breaking down. So by the way, do you inoculate with cultures or do you just let it go wild and like whatever the house is, the house is?
+
+[58:26] No, but we we built the house. So we inoculated the house and then the house in and then the house gets into the meat. Cool. Yeah. Uh Wenrik asks, can you discuss good resources for meat aging at home?
+
+[58:39] I have an old refrigerator with a manual temperature dial, a manual humidifier, a UV C bulb. What's UVC? Oh, uh ultraviolet, the um sterilizer. Uh not sterilized, you know what I mean. Fan and an inkbird temperature humidity controller, but I haven't actually put it all together yet to try to age meat, and I prefer not to ruin things.
+
+[58:56] Yeah, you know, uh, he's got all the components there to for a good start. Um I would say, you know, keep it nice and cool, you know, keep it like 35, 37 degrees. And then there's a lot of sources nowadays, there's a lot of sources on like social media, YouTube, you know, Google. You can find a lot of information. Does constant UV light mess with the flavor?
+
+[59:19] I would I would I would recommend uh two guys send a cooler to the YouTube channel that does expect the uh aging and charcuterie. I would I I would think that fat and meat responds to intense amounts of UV radiation. Does having the light on all the time change anything? It does. Yeah.
+
+[59:38] Mm-hmm. Not not in a good way. I would guess that. That's what I would guess. Yeah.
+
+[59:42] So people, don't leave that light on all the time. In the negative five seconds that we have, uh, how do you how'd you get into this? Pure hobby. Yeah? Pure hobby.
+
+[59:53] Yeah. I just uh I started like cooking a few uh several years ago and then I was just looking for products that I wanted to use for cooking and um meat was a big thing because I love meat and I was having a hard time finding a good source for like dry aged meat that really kind of impressed me. So I started to look into how what dry aging was and how do people go about it, how do big butcher houses go about it, and started playing around with it and I started tweaking all these little variables and all these pulling all these triggers to see if I can create the create an environment that actually created a product that was special and made a difference. Nice. Well, we appreciate it.
+
+[1:00:30] We love the product. Uh Edwardsagemeats.com, is that correct? Yes, sir. And uh follow you on Instagram. Also, uh for those of that are our Patreon members, I think we have a discount going, or we did one.
+
+[1:00:42] And I'm sure that Edward would be happy to answer your further questions about uh either starting a business or uh age meats on our Discord. Um, you know, he's around, he's always been helpful to me. So thanks for coming on. We appreciate it. Yeah, thank you.
+
+[1:00:56] Loved being here. That was great. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City News Dance Studios joined as usual with John across from me. How are you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yeah.
+
+[0:21] Yeah, yeah. Nice, nice. Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels behind me. What's up? Hey, hey, hey, hey!
+
+[0:27] Yo, got a full house today, but no guests. We got uh Quinn Fusile. Well, it's not really his name, Quinn Fuchile in the upper upper left left. Gotta call you that because that's what Siri calls you, my man. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[0:41] Uh and in Los Angeles, we have uh at the beginning of the show, she's gonna have to leave, I think. Nastasi the hammer Lopez. Hello. And uh Jackie Molecules. Yo, yo.
+
+[0:56] What's up? Nothing. So if you're listening live on Patreon, call your questions in two 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507. And they can only do that if they're a Patreon member, John.
+
+[1:08] Why don't you tell them how to sign up and why they might want to? You go to Patreon.com slash cooking issues. There's a couple different membership levels there that help support the programming that uh we offer. We offer uh discounts with people that we work with. Uh Edwards HMES just gave us a code um that you can find on the Patreon.
+
+[1:25] How is this beef jerky that you had last week? Decadent. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[1:30] Did you have it? No, I gave mine to Joe. Oh, Joe. Joe. How do you think of a Joe?
+
+[1:34] Uh the Wagyu wasn't very good. What? Well, my wife is the Wagyu jerky. But you had the same one and you liked it? Yeah, I mean, it's just it's so intensely beefy because it's dry aged and then done into the jerky, so it's just like so if you like dry aged, get it.
+
+[1:54] But if you don't like the dry aged, don't get it. Get it. You're just gonna have like one piece at a time. Because it's really rich. It's also nugget style, right?
+
+[2:01] Yes. All right. Yes. I think that's what it was. It was the richness that she really didn't accustomed to.
+
+[2:07] Well, cause oh yeah, because you know, like I I I didn't have it yet, but you know, n nine times, I'm just gonna say nine point nine nine times out of a hundred, uh, jerky is gonna be the leanest possible meat because the fat can go like rancid like over time. So I tend to have my beef jerky be hyper lean. You know, in fact, it's the only useful thing to do with eye around besides tartar. True. Because it's a garbage cut.
+
+[2:34] This is a trash can cut. You know what? There are other and don't don't call me elitist on this one because you can make jerky out of it and it's fine. You know what I mean? And there are other cuts that are just as cheap, far better.
+
+[2:46] You know what I mean? So like it's okay that there's a part of the cow that's only for jerky and you know, tartar. Wagyu eye of round actually is what Jeremiah uses at uh what's it called, Contra for his beef tartare, so that he can say it's wagyu. See what I'm saying? It's like it's like it's wagyu.
+
+[3:06] What part? The hoof. You're like, well, oh card. Still wagyu, Dave. Still huggy, yeah.
+
+[3:13] Still wagyu hoof. So before Nastasia has to go, because she said she has to go, I'm gonna give her crap in an oblique way that no one can fully understand because I'm not allowed to talk about it. But Nastasia has a secret project that she's working on. Let me ask you a question, Nastasia. When is the best time to change a menu?
+
+[3:31] If you've been, let's say you've been working on a pro a project for months, months. Let's say that even months ago you did like a detailed tasting of what was gonna be on a menu. What's the best time to actually change the menu? Uh like a couple days before? Yeah, ding ding-ding.
+
+[3:48] Is a couple days before you open is the best time to change it. And is it is it is it good when is the best time to change it, the best way to change it is to have like uh money people parachute in at the last minute, not having paid attention when they were supposed to pay attention, and then sending people to random points within like a 50 mile radius of the restaurant to pick up items that they like that they're used to eating and then try to have you mimic them. Is that the best thing that you can possibly do? Holy crap. Yes.
+
+[4:24] Oh man. Wow. You know what? Yeah. It it is a damn miracle that everyone's not dead.
+
+[4:33] Like, you know what I'm saying? It's like it's like, I imagine you want to kill anyone everyone and you're not even in the kitchen. Like if if I would like you know, like cartoons when like when like uh like Elmer Fudd or whatever like turns red and like blows the stack like a steam whistle, like yeah, I would go on some kind of a rampage. Let me ask you a uh a question, Nastasia. Is it a good idea to use a completely untested POS system?
+
+[5:03] I'm just asking a random question, nothing to do with your project. No. Respect people's expertise, respect it. You know what? Like here's the thing.
+
+[5:17] No more. Okay, okay. Any money people that might be listening, like who like get your suggestions in early. I know you're busy, you're a money person, or at least, you know, you say that you're busy, right? But once you have waited too long, even if it's your money, you still don't have input.
+
+[5:36] That's it. Like you're done. Like you've given up your ability to have input until two or three months in. Then you can apply your input again. What do you think about that, Staz?
+
+[5:47] It's very generalized suggestion. Sure. Money people don't have a tendency to listen to me on that stuff anyhow. All right. So uh now that oh, also Nastasi and I uh had Nastasi had me out to uh uh one of her uh parties on the on the Friday.
+
+[6:05] Oh, here's a little secret for you. Yeah, Dave. Uh Los Angeles International Airport closes their terminal at uh like about one. So if you're going hoping to like for your 5 a.m. flight, if you're hoping to like go and into the terminal, don't because you're gonna sleep at the baggage claim.
+
+[6:23] And by the way, there are no comfortable seats at the baggage claim because it's never expected that you're going to be there. So just why don't you go ahead and enjoy that one? Uh what do you say, Stas? Well, you had your Airbnb until the next morning, Dave. Okay, but what was I gonna do?
+
+[6:39] Get up at like like we we left each other at like one and change. Then I'm gonna what go to the Airbnb, like get my stuff until like three, maybe like 2 30, and then get up after an hour and then no, you know what I mean? Good news is good news is So there's a pro move in LA in this predicament. All right. And it's going to the 20 going to the twenty-four hour Korean spa and sitting in one of the steel.
+
+[7:06] Dave would never do that. Dave would never do that. They would never do that. He would have to get naked to do that. Well, you have to get naked.
+
+[7:12] No, you wear a robe in that room. No, you can wear a robe in that room. They're a different room. No nakedness in the champagne room. Um take a nap in the steam room and then and how much is that pro room?
+
+[7:26] Uh that pro tip cost. I don't know, 35 bucks or something. That's better than another night in a hotel for for damn sure. I'll tell you something. Pretty sure they also have 24 hour Korean food in that spa as well.
+
+[7:39] Well, I was not hungry at that point. Uh so Nastasia had I'm not from it's La Tienda's brand of uh what they it's a relabel, I think, of a Bayota Fed Iberico, but it had an Italian name on it. But I what was her name, Stas? They uh licensed ham cutter. Jen uh Herman.
+
+[7:59] Okay. So she comes to the party and like busts out like this, you know, you know, Bayota Fed, you know, Pata Negra. You know that they of course they chop off the black hoof, but then she has a spare black hoof that she carries around with her and like jams on so it looks like it still has a black hoof on it, which I thought was a kind of funny move. But anyway, so she's like, You want more? I'm like, yes.
+
+[8:21] And then she's like, okay, now I'm like, yeah. And then she was like, what about now? I'm like, yeah. I think I ate most of the ham until I got that weird, greasy, slick like headache that you get. But here's the fun part.
+
+[8:42] And like they s they sell, I think they're like 14 packs or or I think they're 14 packs or 12 packs of like thick, thick tranche like like uh uh whole like foie gras entier, but like sliced into, and then they're v individually vacuumed and frozen right so there's two bags of these they they look like they're IQF shrimp bags right Stas you know what I mean like they're that look yeah and so yeah I show up and Stas is like here's a Sears all you're you're cooking these I'm like what and like you know of course they had no cast iron they had like you know what's the least pro range you could possibly imagine having Nastasia this was one level below that like the le anyway so and apologies I did not bring my dog brush so I couldn't modernist cuisine the the duck breast and apologies also to Nils who never scores duck breasts because he says it's uh gonna overcook I just wanted that sucker to render you know what I mean so Nastasia her friend Eddie and I were in the kitchen and we seers alled the hell out of that foie gras. So we just took the slices which were well how about how thick Stas like three quarters? Yeah yeah so salt a little bit by the way salt even was a problem here because we didn't have so the only sugar they had was straight up Domino's brown sugar in a bag. So I was like okay jeebus. So we lay out all of the stuff on a piece of uh aluminum foil in the only baking tray they had and salt and a little bit of sugar sears all the hell out of the top flipped them sears all them 450 oven four minutes pulled out what was that crazy toast that you that we we had to make what was that bread that uh Jeff Gordonier brought I forget the name of the I forget the name of the brand, but it was like some kind of sweet bread.
+
+[10:35] Yeah, so we cut that into into points and then uh buttered it. Sears all that, because we didn't have a toaster that could do all that. And then Stas put some freaking uh fig jam on top and then foie gras on top, sent it out. People housed it, housed it. The duck we just sliced, we had nothing to put on the duck.
+
+[10:56] So I was like, look in the fridge, they got me romaine. So they had romaine in the fridge. So Stas is like, I found some, I found some mixed berry jelly. So we got or cherry, cherry. So she puts cherry jelly on the romaine.
+
+[11:07] We sliced the duck breast. I sliced that duck breast with I think it was a hammer. Was that a knife or a hammer I used to slice? It was the dullest piece of metal I've ever used in in my life. You know what I mean?
+
+[11:17] It was like it was like beating it with a broomstick to cut it. Like the stuff we also you remember me slicing the bread, and I'm just like pouring sweat out because like I'm having to saw through it and crushing it so hard with that damn knife. Thank God the sweet bread was pre-sliced. Thank Christ. Anyway.
+
+[11:35] So, but all's well that ends well, right, Stas. Yeah, it was fun. It was good. Yeah. The whole point of these parties, I didn't do it in weird houses.
+
+[11:43] I don't have all the equipment, but I have cool views and it did have a good view of uh you know, Stas likes it up there in the Hollywood Hills or whatnot. Although get this, people. The speed limit on in these Hollywood Hills areas is 30 mile an hour. And if you drove 30 mile an hour, not only would you slam into a house, but you would kill 35 dogs and probably 12 children before you were done. I can't believe that the speed limit is 30 miles an hour, 35 miles an hour on those roads.
+
+[12:09] It's bizarre. You know what I mean? But hey, that's California for you. You know what I mean? Uh oh, the other thing that party, I thought I was slinging drinks.
+
+[12:17] Thank God I had Wes from uh Thunderbolt LA, who was my drinks partner. In fact, he did all the prep for it. We did a, this was kind of fun. We did a French 75 Carbonate because it was Bastille Day, ostensibly, right? So the first thing we did was we did four different cordials that were at 50 bricks and uh about 2% acid.
+
+[12:36] So then you add those, that's about right for adding to champagne. So we made like strawberry for red, we did a green apple. We died green for the uh for green. We did a plum that was really nice, and I forget what the fourth one was. But they were they were really nice, but most people didn't go for that.
+
+[12:54] Most people drank the French 75. So we made a recipe, which I can try to look up for you guys. I didn't bring it with me. The idea was to make a carbonated gin lemon cordial mix that could be mixed in any ratio with champagne and get and have it be good, right? So I designed it for a one-to-one mix of champagne and gin uh lemon juice, lemon cord, so gin lemon cordial, polydextrose, water, and one other thing.
+
+[13:21] I forget anyway. So, like I designed that so that it that was it's about 10 or 11% alcohol. That the the carbonated mix, and any ratio of that with champagne works. So it was kind of fun. Carbonated French 75.
+
+[13:33] We could put the recipe out there next time if you want. And last but not least, we made a drink called the Brangelina Spritz, which was I forget the name of this, uh like Angelino uh uh Amaro that's like orange heavy and kind of sweet. So it was that and a little bit of Nova Salis, of course, glassid, of course, polydextrose, carbonated, it's also good. That wrap up Wes and my involvement, Stas, or is that uh covered in smoke? Yeah.
+
+[14:01] And uh there were some weird people there. So, you know, you should definitely try to get invited to one of Nastasia's weird parties for sure. You know what I mean? And while I was there, I went to uh Jack, you weren't there, so you couldn't go with me. I was like uh 10 minutes walk or five minutes walk from uh Cafe Tropical, so I went there twice.
+
+[14:24] He doesn't care. Yeah. I had their crawler, which he talked about on the show, the maple crawler, which is good, and is plum Danish. But also I was given uh there's a fellow that works there, name a toaks, like multiple toaks, like you toke more than once, toaks. And he gave me a new product they're working on that we're gonna try here called you think it's Rosie's or Rossi's?
+
+[14:43] Rossi's. Rossi's Rosie's R-O-S-I-S. Rossi, Rosie. But Rossi would be two S's, right, Stas? Yeah.
+
+[14:51] Yeah. If you were Italian. Anyway, it's Stinger Peppers. It's like apparently Connecticut adjacent. So that's why John was like, yeah.
+
+[14:58] Okay. They're like Serranos in the shape of like a stinger, but it's a hot oil for pizza, which I guess makes sense. So anyway, Toke gave me a bottle to try. So John and I are gonna try it on some uh 85% hydration bread. What's cool about it is it comes in a freaking uh it comes in like an oil can like you might have had for uh oil, like a sewing machine oil, you know those little cans.
+
+[15:21] So anyway, I'll let John try it first. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, it's it it looks cool, like yellow and green and red. You know, like back when you didn't have all four colors, you only had like, you know, you could choose any two colors. Anyway, so that's that.
+
+[15:36] So what do you think? Yeah, yeah. Oh, tasty. In my family, that means it's gotta go. I gotta go do this thing.
+
+[15:43] Oh well, do you got anything else to say for yourself before you go do your thing? No, I will say I wish I could talk about it. I wish I could tell everybody everything, but I can't. She just can't. Not you like usually it's won't.
+
+[15:57] Today, it actually is can't. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[16:03] Accurate. Yeah. Oh, so actually, this is spicier than I thought it was gonna be. Yeah. That's got a little kick to it.
+
+[16:08] It's nice. Yeah, if anyone's familiar with like colony grill. Um yeah, bar style pizzas in Connecticut, specifically Stanford. Yeah, those are kind of hot oil that they serve there. But Ed Cornell from uh Cafe Tropical is doing this in conjunction with the is it is it a single quarter sheet, Jack, or is it multiple quarter sheets?
+
+[16:29] Quarter sheets is the name of the place. With plural, multiple sheets. They have more than one. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[16:34] Yeah. Although we were told last week that they in fact do not cook them in quarter sheets, they cook them in Detroit pants, but whatever, but it's got a kick to it. All right. That's right. So we know what Nastasia's doing.
+
+[16:45] She's rushing off to her secret project. What do you what's up with uh what's up with you and Quinn? Me, I'm just getting ready for my uh I'm one month away from my Asia trip, so I'm deep in my like itinerary planning and research. Where in Asia? Taiwan.
+
+[17:03] Taiwan, Hong Kong, Chongqing, Chengdu, Beijing. So I really I really want to go to I want to go to Beijing and I want to go to Changdu. I haven't been there. Beijing was a lot of fun. How long are you in Taiwan?
+
+[17:19] Taiwan's gonna be like uh six days. So I'm renting a car and driving the island too. So I'll get to go to like um Tainan and Tai Chung and some of the other cities outside of Taipei. Uh you know what I really wanted to visit. I was only in Taipei when I was there.
+
+[17:31] I really want to visit. They they have some like really cool, and probably I'm the only one that would care about this, like um, like uh I think they're Hinoki Cypress forests that you can visit that are like where now, whenever anyone needs to rebuild a temple, that's where they go. Because they've got like like the old growth, like Hinoki there, they're like, you know, kicking the real butt. And here's the thing when you're in, I think that's where it is. Anyway, I loved Taiwan.
+
+[17:58] I recommend I'm not saying what's gonna happen or what's not gonna happen in the world, but if you can go to Taiwan now, go to Taiwan now. You know what I'm saying? Like exactly not not to get, you know. And don't worry, I will be seeing the um the meat statue will will happen. Oh, yeah.
+
+[18:14] Everyone knows meat. We've talked about meat shaped stone. Listen, Jack, I have the it's the meat-shaped stone, and you have to go to the restaurant, whether you're hungry or not, and get the meat-shaped stone-shaped meat. Okay. Right?
+
+[18:29] Should I be bringing you back a souvenir meat-shaped stone keychain or something? Well, listen, you're familiar with the project, right? I own the Instagram handle, meat shape stone. You're familiar with this project, right? I've haven't I talked about this on air a thousand times?
+
+[18:43] Yes. I'll give it to you one more freaking time. I'll give you one more time, people. I need help with this. So, what you do is is you go to the National Museum in Taipei.
+
+[18:54] You see the meat-shaped stone, you pretend to care about the Jadite Napa cabbage, right? No one really cares about the cabbage, right? So you see the meat-shaped stone, you take a picture of it, you go to the restaurant, you get the meat-shaped stone-shaped meat. You take a picture of the meat-shaped, stone-shaped meat. Now, you take that to an artist and have them make a three-dimensional representation of that.
+
+[19:20] Then you take that to a chef and have them make a food version of that. Then you take that to an artist and again and again and again. So, right now, all I have is the meat shaped stone and then the meat shaped stones shape meat. I want to get to at least like five or six levels of stone-shaped meat shape, stone-shaped meat-shaped stone. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[19:43] I'll take it, I'll take it one or two steps further. Right. We just need to find some. It can't be like, you know, I used I have an MFA. I could be a part of it, but I'm a part of it.
+
+[19:52] I can't be a part of it. I know what the shtick is. So you can't like let the artist know here's what's here's what's supposed to happen. It's it's supposed to be like like a it's supposed to be like an exquisite corpse game of telephone. You know what I mean?
+
+[20:03] Where you're like tossing the football back and forth between artists and sh and and cooks, you know? Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah.
+
+[20:11] Yeah. My theory is eventually it will be a meatball. And the real thing is, do you actually ever tell them that it needs to be meat, or do you just say food? I like that. Or do you say nothing?
+
+[20:28] Just say depict this thing. Well, make this edible. You have to say make this edible, right? Right, right, right. Yeah.
+
+[20:37] Yeah. Or make this a sculpture. But you don't want something, you don't want something being crazy. Yeah. It would become a eventually it would become a meatball, and then one of those like Japanese style polished mud balls.
+
+[20:52] Are they, I mean, oh, as the uh as the as the art after the meatball? Maybe. You never know. Like my theory is that once it becomes a meatball, it stays a meatball. Like maybe it turns into a fishball or whatever, but it basically once it becomes a ball, I think it stays a ball.
+
+[21:10] I don't think it unballs itself. I think like nature wants to shrink the meat-shaped stone into a sphere. That's my guess. If if I had to guess anyway, I think like if it was a little squatter, or not squatter, if it was a little flatter, it might turn into a sheet. But I think as it is, it's turning, it wants to turn into a I think there's a uh a weird kind of saddle point.
+
+[21:33] It like there's an attractor. And I think one of those attractors is sheet. Uh one of those attractors perhaps is cube and one is sphere, but I'm pretty sure that's in the pretty sure it's solidly into the sphere zone of uh shape attraction in games of telephone. But yeah, we'll see because Jack's gonna work on it. So you know, he said he is, so he's promised.
+
+[21:52] I got you. Yeah, all right. But I have promised him. All right, all right. Uh then you're gonna you're gonna like smuggle like a whole bunch of like uh fresh green uh Sichuan pill uh peppercorn back in.
+
+[22:05] I mean, I don't know about fresh, but how am I gonna smuggle them fresh? Fresh ish. And how well how well do they stay when they're fresh? But yeah, fresh-ish. I don't know.
+
+[22:13] I mean some good dried, right? Yeah, but the greens like in the sauces, like when they just throw like handful after handful of the greens into the sauce. Oh, I know. Oh my god. I'm not even sure where to get good green dried um Sichuan peppercorns anyway.
+
+[22:28] So I'm gonna definitely come back with a bunch of that. Yeah, I don't know that we can. Like McGee has a good hookup from like uh I forget what the name of the company is, like the people who make the what he considers to be the best Sichuan oil, is it 50 hertz? Oh, yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, 50 hertz is free.
+
+[22:45] Yeah. Although I I have to say, I think that's a a bullcrap name because they're like, oh, it's it it's the sensation is 50 hertz. No, it was it was done by people whose electricity runs at 50 hertz. So they're like, it's like getting shocked from an electric socket. If you tested it in the United States, people would be like, oh, it's 60 hertz.
+
+[23:03] You know what I mean? Dummies. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[23:07] Try differentiating an electric shock at 50 to the different hertz on your tongue. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I'm not sure. I'm getting shocked 20% slower.
+
+[23:15] Oh my god. Sichuan peppercorns taste so different in the UK. Dumb. Um, just dumb. Um you know what?
+
+[23:24] Anyway, I won't get into it. Uh all right, Queenie Queen, what do you got, man? I didn't do any major cooking, but I did do some interesting uh, well, for me, tasting, because we found a new to us fancy cheese shop a few turns over. So we're gonna have a wide selection of cheeses, some like uh to be more specific. What's related?
+
+[23:55] All right. Okay, go ahead. Yeah, uh I'm getting to there. Yeah, I had my my first uh applause. Oh, yeah, that's good stuff.
+
+[24:05] How how ammoniacal was it? Um I didn't get a big whiff of like the the main junk. It was always like on a cracker, so the smell was not too bad. Yeah, I like it, plus I I'll eat a lot of it. Apparently I saw some of my family like smell the the primary piece.
+
+[24:31] There was some uh interesting reaction. Yeah, well, you know, it's like uh it's like the this is spinal tap, smell the glove. You gotta love it. You know what I mean? Because it poise, I have to say it's delicious, but it poise the texture of it, even when it's runny, there's like a firmness, there's something to it poise that like I wish that it was slightly different.
+
+[24:55] Yeah, it's never as runny as you want it to be, I think also, even when you heat it up a little bit. It's just yeah. Yeah, yeah. I don't know why, because it's not firm, but it's somehow it has this weird textural thing. I don't know whether it has to do with uh the bacteria on it, but I mean, you know, what's my favorite washed rind?
+
+[25:14] I used to, you know what I haven't had in years is a really good like monster. You know what I'm saying? But my problem with those is that they get little grains on the skin sometimes. I don't like the grains, you know what I mean? The little like crystal y craps.
+
+[25:28] Yeah. I don't love that. I don't know. My favorite runny cheese, my favorite cheese is is Vash Ramondor. But it has to be you get it from you can even people who fly it into the United States, that's some bull crap.
+
+[25:41] You gotta go to like France, Switzerland between like I think late December and like like early February. Like that's the rock and roll time. And you gotta get a big one that's aged to perfection. If you're in Paris, I reck I recommend Bartolomé. And when you go there and you ask for it, the Vachramondor, when they start handing it to you, give them the stink eye so that they give you the good one.
+
+[26:07] Make sure you get the good one. You don't want the bull crap one that they're gonna sell to tourists. That really is God's cheese. And I love all cheeses, not all cheeses. I hate yay toast.
+
+[26:17] But other than that, you know. Why aren't there more cheese cart services? I don't know. I told you that. That's the best time.
+
+[26:23] Best thing that's ever happened to me. Absolutely best. Cheese cart shows up. Man, person just sits there with a with like a half smile on their face, just like cutting cheeses. So great.
+
+[26:33] Best best single sentence anyone's ever said to me was I picked out all I was at uh Lepre Catalan, which I've told the story a million times, three star restaurant in the Bois de Boulogne in Paris. I think it I think it's I think I'm choosing cheese. Jen said, my wife said, you know, you choose the cheese. I was like, okay. So like, you know, I let her choose the wine, whatever, I choose cheese.
+
+[26:53] And so, you know, I choose all these cheeses, he slices them, puts them on a plate, and then hands them to Jen and says, uh or no, hands them to me and says pour La Madame. I was like, boom, boom, boom! I chose a whole nother set of cheeses. Best best sentence anyone's ever said to me. God, it's the greatest.
+
+[27:13] But yeah, why don't you think we have it? That's too expensive. Too expensive, yeah. And not enough Americans will like consume cheese at the end of the meal. I was thinking we're also a lot of us, although Marie Guarnicelli, Maria Guarnashelli, my editor said that I think she said that one of the worst things about America is that we eat cheese before our meal instead of after.
+
+[27:31] Uh and I do eat cheese before my meal just 'cause that's c what I'm conditioned to do, but I also really like it after. If someone says to you, I don't care who's listening, someone as long as you can consume it. Someone says to you, Would you like cheese or dessert? You'd say, Yes. Yes.
+
+[27:49] Yeah. Both. If they shirt up with like a cheese cart, like a dim sum style cheese cart at the end of a meal, I'm pretty sure a lot of people would say yes to that. Especially if it was just, you know, little plates pre-cut. They're like, Do you want this?
+
+[28:00] Uh yes. Yeah, but the real killer is when they show up with the blocks and then you like they tell you what they have, and then they cut the block for you and arrange it on the plate. It's the sickest service. But the issue is is that like, you know, like to really do it right, you need like I don't know, 10, 15 cheeses, something like that. Yeah, under the under the glass.
+
+[28:21] They can't be weeping. So like most Americans, like they're not invested enough in it to have enough cheese there to have it worth their while. They're not really we not willing to lose anything or like use it for a different purpose. And so you know, but oh my god. I mean, honestly, so many people with money here that you could probably charge whatever the hell you want, you know?
+
+[28:44] Yeah, because it's the Vegas, I feel like. Oh my god. Vegas would be the place to pull it off. Yeah, I don't know. I love a cheat cheese card.
+
+[28:53] Billion blank checks out there. Yeah. Yeah. Like a conveyor belt cheese situation. Oh yeah.
+
+[29:03] Pay by the pay by the plate. Yeah. This is not a terrible idea. Why did Artisanal go out of this? That was a good idea.
+
+[29:08] I don't know. It was pretty good. Yeah, the Kitan Kai ten like charcuterie and cheese. Yeah. Oh my God.
+
+[29:15] You send around like the different like you pick you could pick up like a bread and bread and jam or bread and butter and bread and jam plate, then you pick up your your the meat that you want and the cheese that you want. Different butters too. Different fruits and yeah, different like different composts and stuff. Guys, are we onto something here? Oh my god.
+
+[29:29] Kite. Kai ten. You know, different days. You can do different Italian. Oh yeah.
+
+[29:37] Wash rhyme days, fresh cheese days. Yeah, yeah. What about the boca or something? What'd you say? Oh, the book running.
+
+[29:44] This is not an idea that one can be cut this. Yeah, no, no. We gotta this is like this is first of all. Everybody, you're welcome. Here we are.
+
+[29:53] Exactly. You're welcome. Giving away more great ideas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, you know, yeah, dude, like what comes free at Kai at Kai 10 charcuterie, the olive oil.
+
+[30:05] Well, maybe one of the types. I don't know. You could really go crazy. Different olives, different types of nuts. Wait, Quinn says the bread should come free.
+
+[30:14] What makes you like what makes you consume more? What makes you get more plates? That's what you get. Cracker. I don't know.
+
+[30:21] I like a couple of crackers, but what I really want is bread. But I think Quinn is onto something here. If we give them too much bread, they're gonna fill up. Yes. They're gonna fill up.
+
+[30:31] True. Hmm. You want to give them a little bit? Maybe it's the olives. We're gonna sell a lot of liquor, Joe, for sure.
+
+[30:39] The most dangerous thing about this new cheese shop rediscovered is they have French cultured salted butter. Which one? The barat? And we got um which one book is like um igni or something. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[30:59] Uh in my neighborhood, they look they're all barat coat. It's like barud. Same reason. Yeah, how good can butter be? And pretty pretty damn good.
+
+[31:11] I've had that. You know what? Since you are Italian, you need to look into it. It's not cultured, but it's still the cream that they use, the Ocelli, uncultured Italian butter showstopper. A little salt on it, showstopper, not cultured.
+
+[31:25] Like it is what it is the height of what uncultured butter can be. Uncultured butter for an uncultured person. That's me. But uh, you know, when I first saw it, I bought it first from Louis DiPallo. He hasn't been able to get it because it there's two suppliers, Eataly carries it too.
+
+[31:44] They, of course, charge more, much more than DiPalos does when they when they have it. But I was like, how good can it be? It's not cultured. Good. Real good.
+
+[31:56] You know what I mean? It comes in a weird little satchel, like a weird little like paper thing with grommets. This looks like it's available on Amazon. Oh, a $40 delivery fee. The Ocelli?
+
+[32:09] The Ocelli or the Barat? Yeah. Yeah, the Ocelli. Yeah, it's good. But just go to I mean, do they have Eatley in Los Angeles yet?
+
+[32:17] Yeah, I think so. I mean, they're only going to charge you twice what it costs instead of, you know, with a $40 delivery fee, like, you know, 20 times what it costs from. What is the full name? I think it's just his name is Beppy. B E P P E.
+
+[32:35] Yeah. Beppino. Beppino. All right, listen. Listen.
+
+[32:41] Oh, the zip. Get this. Queen, we'll come back to more uh more cooking products here in a minute. But listen. So uh I'm trying to find the uh question.
+
+[32:51] Okay. Uh Malkith, maybe it's Malchite. I don't know. Uh wrote in a long time ago. Hi, Dave and crew.
+
+[33:00] In some older punch recipes, e.g. Grub Street Punch Royale and Wendrich's punch book, they call for ambergris, uh, which is of course uh like the fatty deposits found in sperm whale poop that they poop out and then uh floats in the sea for infinity till the poop washes away and only the fat soluble stuff remains, and then it has like a uh particular smell to it. Uh it looks like nowadays embroxide, which is also ambroxan, is used as a synthetic analog for ambergris and food flavoring and perfume. Have you ever played with it? Any tips?
+
+[33:29] No, I've not played with it, but I bought some. I said this a long time ago. Uh Givedon makes it and then someone repackages it and sells it on eBay. The issue is it's on the internet, which may or may not be correct. Here, get yourself a fresh one of these.
+
+[33:46] Uh which mayor, no, you need no fresh one. Yeah. Use this one. Uh uh, use that one. So it may or may not be correct, but they said I think 0.1 parts per million or something.
+
+[33:58] Someone can Wikipedia this while I'm talking. So the about as accurate as well. I think there's like zero, there's like three, three parts per billion. I think it was I read 0.1 per 0.1 per million, which is 10 parts per billion. Anyway, so I was able to fairly accurately measure 7 milligrams.
+
+[34:21] And I put seven milligrams into 200 mils of 40-proof alcohol. Now, the reason I didn't do this before is I tried to make a more accurate aliquot, but even in seven milligrams in 200 milliliters of uh vodka at 40%, I had to put it into my ANOVA and cook the hell out of it at like 150 Fahrenheit to get that stuff to dissolve. The other stuff that was like three, you know, 10 times as concentration, so like point, you know, seven hundredths of a gram in 200 milliliters, I had on a shelf for weeks and it did not dissolve. So the stuff does not want to dissolve even in 40% alcohol. Now, I don't I think my calculations are correct, but in 2000 uh uh in 165 mils of liquid, this stuff is gonna be 0.4, so four times what they say you should use is gonna be every drop.
+
+[35:15] So let's do a four. Of course, this is a little more. All right, so that's let's see if I can taste one drop. Here, John, you can see what you I don't get a lot in one drop. Taste it beforehand.
+
+[35:31] The water? Yeah. Okay. It's gonna taste like hot oil. All right, now see if you can taste one drop.
+
+[35:38] I can't really taste one drop very well. Of course, I may not be sensitive to ambroxan, or maybe this synthetic needs more. I'm gonna try it now. Two drops. I can smell it.
+
+[35:51] Now I got a big smell. What do you think? Now I'm gonna do after John adds his second drop. I'm gonna do three. I'm gonna do four drops.
+
+[36:03] Hell with it. Which is a full four drops of this is a full. Like I said, this is more than 165 mils, but we're looking at now more like one part per million. Now I understand perfume smells. Like this makes.
+
+[36:22] Now I get it. Four drops into a 250 of my seven milligrams per 200 is quite clearly there. Right? That this is the I would say the accurate use racing rate use rate. Let's use in much higher percentages in perfume.
+
+[36:42] I'm gonna say good. I'm gonna go ahead and say good. What do you say? Now what would you use that for? It's a little woody, a little perfumey, a little floral.
+
+[36:53] It's very perfumey. Like to me, that's the core smell of women's perfume, or at least of like my grandma's perfume. Smells grandma parts. Is that what you're saying? But not in a lavender way.
+
+[37:02] No, not in a lavender way, or the way you're saying either. What am I saying? You're gross. Wow. I don't know.
+
+[37:13] What would you want this in? Okay, choose a spirit. Don't say gin. No. Because that's what everyone will go.
+
+[37:22] Anytime something's perfumey or weird, someone's like, how about gin? How about vodka? No. Let's do something like if you had to use something that had like. I mean, gin is built to meld with a bunch of other aromatic stuff.
+
+[37:34] So don't choose gin. Or about like a rum. Okay, let me think. Dark or white. Nautical pirates.
+
+[37:43] Yeah, I don't know. You're just doing it based on poop. A little bit, yeah. Not based on flavor. Yeah, but I don't know.
+
+[37:48] Why not do that? Oh, yeah, I guess based on flavor. I'm thinking about you say prosecco? Yeah. So like a sparkling wine with some embroxin in it?
+
+[37:59] That's not a terrible idea. Not um, yeah, I you know what? And normally I'm not like a proseco guy, but I think you're right that you don't want you want something charmat. You don't want something that's like real mushroomy. You don't want like uh, you know, me uh method de champagne.
+
+[38:15] Yes. Which also tastes like le champignon. Yeah. Uh you know what I mean? So it's like, yeah, I don't think you want the mushroom with it.
+
+[38:23] I think something that's like cleaner, more charmatty, right? Yeah. Hmm. All right. All right, Malkeith.
+
+[38:33] So uh so interesting. Yeah, so uh there, go try it. Well, you know what? If if you read on our Discord that I'm dead, then don't. But otherwise.
+
+[38:44] And it's used in much, much higher percentages in uh perfumes. What? This is less of an overuse than your uh infamous dirt martini. Oh, that was the worst thing it's ever. I mean, like I can still taste it.
+
+[39:03] It's got a long finish at four at f so seven milligrams into 200 mils of vodka, four drops into a 250 milliliter pellegrino, right? Is providing a finish that's staying with me. Now remember, ambergris, and therefore also this synthetic one, is like uh a base note, like a fixing, like a fixative thing. So it makes sense it's gonna have, even though it's mild in my mouth right now, it's got an extremely long tail. I am tasting it.
+
+[39:31] You know what I'm saying? So it could be one of those things where it like really sneaks up on you as you're drinking it. You know what I mean? Serving of eggs and ambergris was reportedly King Charles II of England's favorite dish. I don't think I wouldn't have guessed that.
+
+[39:46] I don't think I I don't think I would like that. No, but how much eggs? Well, but no, but I don't know what percentage of this is in ambergris. I don't know. So you just think it's a bad egg thing.
+
+[39:55] Yes. Because he couldn't get truffles because he's English. He's like, uh, what do we do really well? Truffles? Nah, man.
+
+[40:05] Nah. Nah, King Chucky. You know what I mean? So it's like, he's like, what do we do? Whaling?
+
+[40:11] How about whale poop? They're like, yeah, got it. Gotcha. When was when was uh Charles II? He was died in 1685, 1630 to 1685.
+
+[40:23] Yeah. So they knew how to whale at that point. You know what I mean? Yeah. Anyway.
+
+[40:26] Well, of course, otherwise they wouldn't have ambergris, right? Okay. Uh how do you think you pronounce? You think it's Osgeth or Oseth? Anyway, they wrote in.
+
+[40:39] Something reminded me of the Rye and Caraway or cardamom. It's rye and caraway. Can't remember exactly. Cookie sold at Booker and Dax circa 2014. I think it was a milk bar cookie exclusive to Booker and Dax, but not 100% sure.
+
+[40:51] I've had zero luck finding a recipe online. Curious if Dave or anyone happens to have this recipe. Well, uh Osif, uh, I called Jack uh Shram and asked him whether he remembered. He asked Jenna, who works with him at Solid Wiggles, who was uh Tozy's right hand at Milk Bar at that time. And uh I was told that in fact it was published in one of Tozy's milk bar cookbooks under Molasses Rye Cookies.
+
+[41:19] Uh makes 11 uh 11 what is it? Makes 11 over two dozen cookies. What is eleven over two dozen cookies? One and a half dozen. Oh yeah.
+
+[41:29] You think one and a half dozen? One and a half, okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Smart man. Uh okay, so it is uh stick of butter, one and a half cup sugar, one large egg, one large egg yolk, one third cup molasses.
+
+[41:42] I you know what? I bet you they're using like grandma's black strap, but you know, you can use Crosby's or steins because you you could be a better person. You could be a better person. You could use Crosby's or you could use stains. You don't have to use grand.
+
+[41:53] No offense to your grandma, but her molasses is no good. Um tablespoon white vinegar, uh, two and two-thirds cups all-purpose flour. And by the way, I didn't have time to try to convert this into grams, which is I I always instantly convert all recipes to grams because cups are an abomination. Uh one and a half teaspoons baking soda, one and a half teaspoons kosher salt, two teaspoons caraway seeds, one teaspoon ground caraway, and one half teaspoon ground ginger. Uh cook it at 350.
+
+[42:22] Follow, you know, Tozy's standard kind of cookie, like you know, creaming the hell out of the sugar and the butter, yeah. Uh 350. Um, and then uh two and three quarter ounce scoops of dough, two to three inches apart, greased or lined uh baking sheet. Of course, lined is the correct answer with parchment. Uh nine to ten minutes until leather-like, cool completely, and then go ahead and eat.
+
+[42:47] All right. Done. Got you. Got you, assess. Uh Tony Tony, only two Tonies, not Tony Tony Tone.
+
+[42:55] Just Tony Tony. Okay. Uh, I cooked some really tasty inch and a half center cut pork chops last night with my A Nova. Now I'm assuming, Tony Tony, that you mean ANOVA circulator and not a Nova precision oven because you're talking about water. Used uh Kenji's recipe, which is built into the ANOVA, apparently.
+
+[43:16] Call for an hour at 144 Fahrenheit, which by the way, for those of you that speak real numbers, listen. I've said this a million times. I bake in Fahrenheit, I fry in Fahrenheit, I dress in Fahrenheit, I do any technical cooking in Celsius because technical cooking is more akin to uh is more akin to like you know, science thinking. So it goes in Celsius. I think that that I know that it's not what's it called?
+
+[43:42] Consistent, but it's fine. It's fine. I'm gonna do I'm leaving tomorrow morning at 7 a.m. to go to Tales of the Cocktail, where I'm doing a talk with Mike Capafari and Jespin Clellan uh about dilution, and we talk a lot about temperatures, and Mike is a freaking Fahrenheit guy, even when he's chilling stuff, which makes no sense to me. It just makes no sense.
+
+[44:06] Like, you know what I mean? Like, like, why are we talking about numbers like in the 20s and the teens? I don't get it. You know what I mean? Zero and below zero and above zero makes sense for that.
+
+[44:17] You know what I mean? On the other hand, when Booker comes to me and he's like, Dad, it's it's 20, it's you know, 18 degrees outside. I'm like, I have no idea what you're talking about, dude. Like, what am I supposed to wear? Just tell me it's like, you know, 50 something.
+
+[44:31] Anyway. Uh anyway. Okay. So uh it took four hours to bring the pork chops to temperature. Uh this with removing them from the bags and checking the temperature with a probe.
+
+[44:41] Water uh clocked in a solid 144, aka 62.2 Celsius. Um, but uh the chops came up really slowly using Ziploc bags hanging on the side of a deep pot. Uh when finally cooked, they were juicy. Uh they were so juicy, tender, and good, and then pan seared. All right, here's the thing.
+
+[44:59] Let me, before you get to your question, some notes on this recipe. First of all, like I think that one hour, one hour for an inch. It depends on what you're looking for. It depends on what temperature you actually want to hit in the middle of your of your pork chops. Usually what I'll do is when I'm doing pork chops, they're about that thick.
+
+[45:21] I'll do, and I want it rosy. You know what I mean? I'll do it at like 61, 62 around that for about an hour, right? And they're not getting up the temperature in the middle. In fact, I don't want them to get up to temperature in the middle.
+
+[45:36] I want them to get to like 59 or so, right? And then I drop because I'm I'm using like super high quality pork, I've also salted and peppered it beforehand, so it's going to get firmer because I'm salted and peppered it beforehand. I then drop the temperature to 55 for or 54-5 for hours. And I let it rock out. So the entire meat comes up to what is actually cooked, right?
+
+[46:01] For a steak, just not what people normally think of as cooked for pork, right? And if you have a problem with the rosiness there, you can jack the temperature a degree or two, but that's what you do. Two-step cook is always the best, but doesn't need to get all the way up to that temperature because in a really good pork chop, 62 is rather high. You know what I mean? Like, so because you know, when you're flash cooking it, that's not what you're going to get to.
+
+[46:24] But an inch and a half, if you actually wanted to cook it through, is going to take a long time. Because remember, doubling the thickness of a pork chop squares, not uh sorry, not squares. Well, it does doubling the thickness of a pork chop multiplies the amount of time it takes to cook by four, by four. Every time you double it, it get takes four times longer. So if an inch takes about an hour, which makes sense to me, an inch takes about an hour, 50 minutes to an hour, then two inches is gonna take four hours, and four inches will take eight hours.
+
+[47:00] No, 16 hours, 16 hours. So, like, you know, the numbers get real big real fast, which is why when you're doing low temperature cooking, the most important thing to do is to figure out, and by the way, I'm just doing those numbers off the top of my head, I'd have to run some numbers, but the they the most important thing is to get your geometry straight. And the bigger the the the bigger the maximum thickness the temperature has to travel through, the much, much longer it takes to get up to temperature. But I much prefer to do things where I'm almost getting up to temperature in the middle and then dropping it substantially because the proteins will keep moving in terms of like uh you're if you're cooking to you know, what are you saying? 144.
+
+[47:45] If you're cooking to 144 and you just hit 144 and turn it off, right? Let it cool down. Then if you let it that's gonna be a very different texture of meat than if you hold the meat at 144 for four hours. It like it's gonna now taste like a 146 or a 147, right? It's not gonna creep much, much higher, but the longer you keep it, it keeps creeping a little bit.
+
+[48:11] Look up activation energy with protein denaturation if you want to know why. Um anyway, so but your real question is I've got two of the four pork chops remaining for dinner tonight. How do I reheat them without losing that juiciness and tenderness? I'm thinking back into the sous vide at 144. No.
+
+[48:26] No. No. Um several hours before dinner, but is there a better way? Yes. And if 144 is unnecessarily high, I have a fresh rosemary and blah blah in the bag.
+
+[48:38] Anything. Okay, here's what you do. Uh let them, you know, come up to doesn't really matter. Turn your circulator on to, well, what's 52 in Fahrenheit? Someone tell me what, or if you know, 54 or 52.
+
+[48:50] You can put it at 54 to thaw it. Um, but you what you're really gonna do. 129 is 54. 129. All right.
+
+[48:58] So set it at like 129, because that's quote unquote, you know, like 544 is like which is one, yeah, 129 something, right? That's technically blah, blah, blah, food safe. Let it ride for a little while. Drop it down. Your real goal is to get it to be 30 degrees from top to bottom.
+
+[49:17] So if you put it in at like 54, right? It's not going to overcook because you've already cooked it at 62, right? So if you let it like get to 54 and let the whole thing get to 54 and then drop it to 50 for, oh, I don't know, like 45 minutes. At 50, when you steer the hell out of it when it comes out, it's not going to overcook. So and the middle will still be warm enough.
+
+[49:43] Anything below 50, it's not going to be warm enough, right? 50 52, which you're going to have to go ahead and convert that. But that's how to do it. There's absolutely no reason to hook uh to heat it back up to your cooking temperature because it's just gonna it's just gonna get worse, right? Keep it below your cook temperature.
+
+[50:01] You always want to have your ride temperature be below your cook temperature. Anyway, that makes sense? All right. Yep. Okay.
+
+[50:10] L butts. Maybe it's butte. We don't know. Who knows? Uh oh, Nastasia missed this because uh, okay.
+
+[50:17] So talking, they said something about Australian slang, which is weird. Apparently, in Australian slang, dead horse is rhyming slang for ketchup because horse apparently rhymes with sauce in Australia. Imagine a version of English where horse and sauce rhyme. I can't. Can't.
+
+[50:41] Doesn't compute. Doesn't compute. And Australian slang, huh? I mean, maybe, but a horse. I work with an Australian.
+
+[50:50] Get to the bottom of it. Yeah. Well, it says there on the internets, which is never wrong. Never. Has AI ever steered us wrong?
+
+[50:57] Of course not. No, come get me my AI overlord. Uh Dead Horse is rhyming slang for tomato sauce, which is similar to ketchup in other countries. What means similar? It's either ketchup or it's not.
+
+[51:09] I mean, I have tomato, like Marinara is not similar to what does that mean? It has no meaning. Internet, you've just shafted me. You've given me a meaningless statement. It's, you know, pizza sauce, which is similar to ketchup.
+
+[51:21] What? No. Um, okay. The phrase dead horse rhymes with sauce, which is why it is used this way. Hmm.
+
+[51:29] But also, dead horse can refer uh to totally useless or completely pointless, because I guess what are you gonna do with a dead horse other than beat it? Uh this meaning is related to the idiom to flog a dead horse, which you know, which means to make a futile effort. Okay, so you need to understand that in order to understand this question, I guess. Interested in hearing uh about um about the condiment in perspective, most people see it as an unsophisticated and very basic kind of sauce. On the other hand, it's a sauce containing a ton of complexity, spices, acidity, and umami, uh, that had you grown up in an environment entirely removed from it, you would think it's simply magnificent.
+
+[52:03] True story. Like an alien from another planet, uh, if you saw it, it works on almost everything and often improves the product. Although in my family, it's known but loved and called the food ruiner. It's called the food ruiner, but everybody are like past the ruiner because we all dump it on everything, but it's called the food rumor. And that's not from me, but you know, it's from someone else in in in my family group.
+
+[52:24] But anyway, um, I'm having uh uh for context, my nephew is obsessed with uh I'm just gonna go ahead and call it ketchup el boots, because that's what you know, that's what guy wants it to be called. Listen, the number one brand of ketchup in the world is heinz. Heinz is the best, and it is still like the ketchup. You know what I mean? So we can just call it ketchup.
+
+[52:45] Uh do you know that Heinz does not make baked beans in the United States, but their baked beans are incredibly popular in the UK for breakfast on toast. Oh, yeah. They're really good. Yeah. I've never had well, maybe I've had in England, but I've never known that I've had the Heinz baked beans.
+
+[53:02] But do you know that a slang for Christmas, I don't know who where this comes from, is crimbo. So they have Heinz makes a Christmas sweater that is blue Heinz bean can colored, and said it says beans with a Z means with a Z crimbo. Beans means crimbo in a Heinz thing. Yeah. Yeah, my wife has that.
+
+[53:24] She has that sweatshirt, sweater? Yeah. She calls it crimbo all the time. I'm always was Crimbo thing. I don't know where the heck does Krimbo come from.
+
+[53:32] It's like it sounds like that air. All the car, all the all the Christmas cards. Like Mary Krimbo. You're like, what? I guess I don't know.
+
+[53:38] It sounds more festive than Xmas. I know a lot of people hate Xmas. You know what I mean? Anyway. Uh anyway.
+
+[53:48] So what are our thoughts on ketchup? Other than, of course, that it's great. Let me tell you something. If any one of you, if any one of you ever in your life, your whole life, in the life of five generations above and below you, ever came up with something as universally loved and as successful, consistent and delicious as ketchup, as Heinz ketchup, you would be revered. Revered.
+
+[54:18] The same way like Coca-Cola. You know what I mean? I'll say ketchup. Uh overrated. Not a big fan.
+
+[54:24] What do you mean? Overrated. You're just saying that because you may because you like mayonnaise. You can like both. What about thousand island sauce?
+
+[54:34] Even if it's like a Russian or I'd rather go with like the spicy mustard on the pastrami or something like that. Yes, ketchup. Oh no, no, no, no. Hold on, hold on. Obviously, no ketchup on pastrami.
+
+[54:46] But I'm saying that like sweet thing, it's just not for me. I'd rather have barbecue sauce, which I know is different, but like I don't want ketchup on my hot dog, and I want it on my french fries, I want it on my onion rings. Like I don't want it. Agree to have you be wrong. You do it on the you do it on your eggs?
+
+[55:02] No, absolutely not. On your spaghetti? No. I won't ever forget seventh grade Harry Guzman comes over to the house and puts ketchup on my mother's spaghetti olive angle. Oh Harry, you are you have a trophy in our home.
+
+[55:21] Oh was he never invited back after that? Ever. What was this guy's last name? Guzman. Listen.
+
+[55:28] Wait, Larry? Harry Guzman Harry. Harry Guzman. He left the kitchen table to go to the refrigerator to bring the ketchup back. And he's not Guzman.
+
+[55:40] He's not Guzman. He's a Guzman. Guzman. Alright, well. I hope he's not really.
+
+[55:47] Listen, listen, Harry. Call in and apologize to my man Joe Hazen. And Joe Hazen's like if any of you out here know this guy. You gotta call into Antonette. She'll she'll fix it.
+
+[56:00] You know, you gotta, you gotta make amends. This is what they tell you. You have to, you have to uh make amends to those you have wronged. Um what about oh by the way, I'll say this uh regarding the ambroxane at four four drops of uh seven milligrams per 200. It's now about eight minutes later, it's really bloomed.
+
+[56:18] Tastiers now. It's bloomed up. So maybe it takes a minute to bloom up in the uh in the in the in the product. Oh right? It's much more present.
+
+[56:33] Yeah, it's changed. Yeah. And I'm now it's a lot more floral. Yeah, so I'm gonna go ahead and say this. Add whatever you're gonna add.
+
+[56:44] Wait. Yeah. Wait. Wait. Um I think this would go really well with a gin, Dave.
+
+[56:51] I'm not saying it would. I'm not saying it would. I'm just saying, you know. I know, I know that's the easy answer. Yeah.
+
+[56:59] I think the easier answer is something in a custard. I mean, you could do that, but he he they asked for drinks, my man. Drink drink not a custard. I have to say, that's where I'm a bad person. You're a bad person on ketchup, I'm a bad person on custards.
+
+[57:13] Not a huge custard guy, not a not a flan guy. Oh. You know, if I could just have the top of a creme brulee, that would be good enough. You know what I mean? You know what I'm telling I'm tasting, I'm tasting Turkish Delight.
+
+[57:26] Oh, well, well, that well, that so Turkish Delight, the you know, those are all like floral, like rose watery. Oh, you know what they don't have any more of? Okay, did I talk about the pistachio cheese? Oh. There was okay, so like I was at DiPalo's and they don't have it anymore.
+
+[57:43] They're not gonna have it until next year, so don't worry about it, people. But there was a fresh-ish, so like uh of the texture of like marcellino, like so a relatively fresh pecorino. And it had pistachio studded throughout it. And so like I saw it on the counter, I was like, they were bright green, you know. And I was like, how good could that be?
+
+[58:06] And they were like, so they like here, have some. I was like, holy crap, so good. So good. Because it pistachios taste uh all the way through it. So what Jack, what about you and ketchup?
+
+[58:18] Oh, come on. This is fine for fries on a burger. I mean, I'm not using it on much more than that. Okay. I'm gonna go ahead and say this.
+
+[58:27] On fries, I'll put it, I'll put ketchup on fries. I prefer mayonnaise. But the greatest burgaloid of all times is of course the patty melt. And the patty melt desires ketchup. The patty melt wakes up in the morning and says, please put ketchup on me.
+
+[58:42] It's just a good product, regardless of whether you individually like it, it's just a well-made product. Okay, now it's a well-made product, but I agree with you that Heinz is the only ketchup that you should be using with all due respect to some of those uh former brands that popped up. Ooh, former brands. Uh the other question uh they had was sponsored every the other question uh they had was uh something I think has haunted cookbooks and recipes since the dawn of time. Is there really any difference between a dry caramel and a wet caramel?
+
+[59:08] Meaning, when you say caramel here, I'm assuming you mean just like brown sugar in a pan, and do you need to add water to it before you brown it, or can you brown it dry? I think that's what's happening. Sure, the water is all evaporated out of it anyway. I always end up doing a wet caramel because I feel it's easier to prevent crystallizing the sugar. We're interested to hear if there's any truth to the theory.
+
+[59:25] Well, there is uh the problem that you could easily burn a dry caramel before that it's all melted through, depending on how gentle your heat is in the pan. Uh, but the other thing is that uh sometimes in a caramel recipe, there's a certain amount of sugar inversion that happens as uh the stuff cooks, and the longer you cook it to get it to a particular color, the more sugar inversion you're going to have. And also, the more sugar inversion you have, the more coloration you get on the reducing sugar part of it when you know as it first breaks goes breaks down, then goes brown, then does the stuff. So I'm guessing there is a difference between wet and dry, but I'm guessing it's also not completely consistent based on exactly what temperatures you have. I'm sure you could make a wet exactly like a dry and a dry exactly like a wet if you control your times and temperatures accurately enough.
+
+[1:00:11] Make sense? All right, we'll see you guys in a couple weeks because next week I'm in uh what's it called? New Orleans or then Alaska, whatever anyway. All right, cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you alive from the heart of Manhattan, Rock and Fall Center, New York City, New Stand Studios. Skeleton crew today, Joe. Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels. Hey, hey, hey, hey.
+
+[0:22] What up, what up? We got uh good to see you. Good to see you as well. And I get to face you for once because we're the only people in the studio. That's true.
+
+[0:29] Nice. Uh we have for only half the show, apparently, Jackie Molecules out of Los Angeles. What's up? Yo. Yo, yo, yo.
+
+[0:39] No, no uh no Anastasia the Hammer Lopez. She's in the wilds of Seattle, where apparently, even in our most tech-centered city, the most tech-centered city possibly in the United States of America, there is no signal. And in the upper left, we have uh fortunately Quinn. How you doing, Quinn? I'm good.
+
+[0:59] How's Vancouver Island? I flew over your island once, like a week ago. Yes. I waved to Nanaimo as well. You are the most upper left.
+
+[1:09] Oh, yes. So upper left. Not as upper left as I as I as I could be. The plane that uh so I was in Alaska. So if I was in New Orleans, which is why we missed the show the first time.
+
+[1:20] And then I was in Alaska, which is why we missed the show the second time. The plane, by the way, Alaska again, fantastic. Fantastic. Uh by the way, call your if you're listening on Patreon, call your questions in too. 917-410-1507.
+
+[1:36] That's 917-410-1507. And Quinn, why don't you tell them how they would sign up for that and why they might want to? Uh, they would go to Patreon.com/slash cooking issues. You get uh priority answers when submitting questions for the show. You get uh deals with people like uh Edward Edwards Aged Meat, uh Kitchen Arts and Letters, Groben Vine, Olive Oil, etc.
+
+[2:09] etc. And I actually just the other day also uh released a uh Sur Bay recipe calculator. I've been trying to release more of those sort of uh special recipes, and we also release some of uh your recipes sometimes too, right, Dave? Yeah, I mean we could do more because people just need to ask me, and I'll put stuff there. Uh honestly, anyone in our Patreon, if you want some sort of content from me, I have no idea.
+
+[2:39] For instance, I occasionally put up uh STL models for things that uh, you know, I print out that I use in my kitchen. I have no idea whether people like them or not. So on the Patreon, like let us know what you want, and you know, we will try to provide. You also get uh a lot of times people can ask our previous guests questions if they want, uh, if we didn't get to it on the show, which is most likely because as Joe knows, we like tangents. Is that true?
+
+[3:01] Or we at least I do tangents. I don't know that I like them. You love them. I don't know that I love them, it's just how I'm built. I love that the show is called No Tangent Tuesdays, and the whole show are tangents.
+
+[3:11] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh the uh the other thing you get to do, of course, is listen live.
+
+[3:20] And I'll tell you this: if you're not listening live, if you're not a Patreon member, uh, even if you are a Patreon member but you don't listen live, occasionally people will say some crazy business that has to get bleeped out. It just happens every once in a while. That's true. Yeah, that's true. And not just not just curses.
+
+[3:35] We've had live on the air threats go out that had to be bleeped out for legal reasons. Why? Has anyone complained? No, no, I'm just saying, like if you want to hear the even though it is a family show and we do our best to stay on the rails such as they are. Yeah, because the live show is live show, and then everything else is left up to me.
+
+[3:55] And like, I'm gonna remove that. That sounds terrible. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you want to hear the again, anything can happen live. Anything can happen live.
+
+[4:04] I mean, you know, not that we're you know the biggest bleeps are gonna be when you get people like Jim Leahy on, right? Because the man can't not curse. Oh, yeah. You know? Yes.
+
+[4:13] I mean, in in the real life, you know, I pr I use He cannot not curse. Yeah, I use sailor adjacent language in the real life, but you know, I can tone it down when I'm here on on the microphone, whereas he cannot. Imagine what he's like in his private life. You know what I mean? Anyway.
+
+[4:27] Um, so yeah, so I was in uh New Orleans and I was hoping to go, because we've talked a lot uh here about Willie May's Scotch House, their wet on wet chicken technique, wet on wet, like fried chicken technique. And how I don't believe we've had said this many times on the air, uh I don't believe in any such thing as the best X, Y, or Z of anything. I think it's absurd. You know, people have been frying chicken since they had oil and chickens, right? So it's like everyone thinks that every group of people thinks that they have the best, except don't care, it doesn't matter.
+
+[5:00] Willie May's Scotch House is very good fried chicken. Like we're talking like Willie May is like the shortstop. I don't no, no, no, I think it's not like the Cardinal. Okay. No, no, no, no.
+
+[5:07] No, it's interesting. No, yeah. And there's another there's a Willie's chicken shack, not the same, right, in New Orleans, right? But anyway, Willie May's Scotch House uh is one of the country's more renowned uh chick fried chicken makers. Yeah.
+
+[5:23] And uh, and I've had it, and I have to say it's extremely good. I did burn the hell out of my mouth because uh one of the times I went there, I've been there i don't know like two three times and uh and and i think i said this on air before but one of the breast meat pieces I got had a giant skin bubble that had somehow filled with fry oil and because I'm meat as soon as the basket came out I was like you know I bit right into it and the oil pocket exploded and for the next uh for the next couple of days my mouth looked like a a cave cavern with stalag you know tights hanging down of my mouth because of the the oil splash but still delicious chicken oh we have a caller it's so good um caller you're on the air what's up Dave it's Josh from Norfolk what up hot dog is this by the way Josh from Norfolk bar owner and the uh has the incorrect social media moniker of a hot dog is a sandwich which factually incorrect factually incorrect and so you're gonna love this okay I'm I'm actually calling with a hot dog question but not a not a debate question. All right. So uh I'm gonna be opening a small kind of uh cocktail supply shop and tasting room here in the fall and uh because of our great commonwealth in order to serve alcohol I also have to serve food so I figure what's more on brand right yeah yeah so my question is I've got this small like 300 square foot space um access to a commercial kitchen but outside of my space what do you think is the best move for cooking hot dogs fairly quickly in a space with no hood I have like some space where I can prepare food, but I'm trying to decide if this is a just buy a roller situation. Do I grab like an ANOVA thing?
+
+[7:09] Or uh, you know, what's your thoughts? All right. Well, there can be no one thought because there are so many different hot dogs, right? So, first of all, I need to know are you trying I don't have any concept of uh Southern Virginia's hot dog culture. So, like, is there a southern Virginia, Southern coastal Virginia hot dog culture, or is the Navy base loom so large that like it's kind of like a wash with all sorts of different kinds of culture?
+
+[7:40] It is pretty awash. I wouldn't say we have specific hot dog culture. Um you will find a Sabrette cart every now and again. Um that's maybe mainly expat New Yorkers. Yeah, exactly.
+
+[7:53] Yeah. I don't want to listen, I I've thrown a lot of shade on Sabrette in the past, and I kind of don't want to because the Museum of Food and Drink is doing uh our next exhibition is on um street street food, like so vending, but plus also carts and the history of it in New York. And so, you know, I can't be throwing too much shade on Sabrette. I will say that that the United States and the world gives New York too much credit for its hot dog culture as opposed to all the other hot dog cultures in the country. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[8:26] So I don't think you're gonna want to emulate New York, although the onion goop is good. Who here likes onion goop? Got one from Joe, anyone else, onion goop? Anyone? Sure.
+
+[8:35] Yeah, yeah. For those of you that don't know, the new the the two New York toppings, right? And there's only two. We're not like Toronto or Chicago or any one of these like goop dog universes where it's like like any kind of like garbage thrown onto a hot dog, or even the delicious hot dogs, the conies out of uh what's it called, Detroit, where it's like got that beef heart chili all over it. In New York, you have well, three choices.
+
+[9:00] Four, if you if you want to get a nasty stare, you can get ketchup at a hot dog cart. You can get it. They'll give it to you, right? What they want to do is either, or any combination of mustard, which you all know what it is, sauerkraut, which you all know what it is, although the ones on hot dog carts have been uh pasteurized and jacked with uh benzoate as a preservative, so they don't taste as good as if you made your own, or if you got like a decent commercial brand like Bubbies. Uh Bubbi's a good brand.
+
+[9:29] I like Bubbies. Uh and three is onion goop. And I think onion goop is the one that is more New York. Wouldn't you guys agree? Those who have lived in New York, the onion goop is the one that you don't see everywhere.
+
+[9:40] 100%. Yeah. It's like it's like a red, not ketchupy, but red, slightly sweet, like they're not like slices of onion. They're almost like squares. They're like little onion squares that have been kind of sauteed, but not like fully until they're soft, and they're in this kind of like semi-sweet, reddish, not barbecue saucy and not ketchupy goop.
+
+[10:05] And that is the New York City topping, right? That you can, and I don't know whether like a lot of people get it or not, but I haven't seen it anywhere else. The onion goop. And I think Sabrette might sell the onion goop. So who does the relish then?
+
+[10:21] Is that um Chicago? I don't know. I mean, relish seems like an in like a like a national kind of a thing, but I've never seen someone get that on a New York City cart. You know what I mean? Like a New York City cart, I mean, maybe they do now, because I haven't been to a hot dog cart in a long time.
+
+[10:36] But to get back to Josh's question, I wouldn't necessarily go for New York style uh dogs, right? Uh but if you're kind of unleashed, if you have no culture you're aiming at, like you're not trying to do uh like the the split, like the ripper style where it's like fried and split, and you're not trying to do like the chart chard style like they like they'll do when they're doing uh on the grill up in like upstate, you know, New York, or you're not trying to do the Coney style out of Detroit. You could do whatever you want. I'll have I'll say that like there is great, there is great honor in a properly made dirty water dog if the dog is good. My issue is often that I don't think that they that they're not serving the best dogs that they can because they're using skinless, right?
+
+[11:26] And so for me, a great hot dog, I like snap. So I like uh I like a hot dog with a casing. But as I've said on the show many times, absolutely be snappy dogs. Snappy dogs. So if you're doing a snappy dog, like what you can do is you can buy like like a bill, like a bunch of hot dogs and then put them in water and then bring them up to temperature and then make a hot dog stock, and then serve those hot dogs for family meal, they'll be fine, right?
+
+[11:56] And then just do like a like a hot water hold, like in a even in a static bath, because it doesn't really matter, right? And those hot dogs will stay neutrally hot dog tasting for infinity. And then you could just do a solera. You could be like, you know how like um uh yeah, those people who are like uh we've had the same, it's not the same grease, obviously, because you're removing a little bit of grease and you're adding a little bit of grease, but is there the there's the famous hamburger people who, when they lost their lease, they they moved the grease. They had a citywide parade where they moved the grease from one location to the next so that the new place wouldn't be ruined, or the famous Lambic houses where they don't wash anything because they don't want to ruin their wild yeast culture as though you can keep something static by not cleaning it, or like the famous, like, you know, centuries-old Solera-based stocks that you have in uh in uh traditional Chinese restaurants.
+
+[12:48] I mean, you could you could be you could be like the like the the never-ending hot dog pot, right? And the good thing about that is is that the temperature is gonna stay the same almost no matter what. And as long as you pull from one side of your holding pot and add to the other side of your holding pot, like nothing really matters. And you can hold it for a long, long time as long as you're not holding them so hot that the texture degrades within a reasonable period. You know what I mean?
+
+[13:16] Uh so I think if you hold anything, you could hold it at even probably 60 by four 140, which is gonna make the health department wildly happy with you. And uh, I don't think it's gonna degrade the texture of the hot dog even over the course of a whole shift. Now, but if you don't want that, if you want grilled, then you need a hood. If you want a fryer, then you need a decent fryer. Plus also, then you you have to worry about how long your firing time is.
+
+[13:41] With a dirty water dog, dog comes out bun, out bun, out bun. Roller houses, they say they're okay, but have any have any of you ever visited a 7-Eleven late at night? I have. But yeah. Have you looked at those rollers?
+
+[13:56] Well, yeah, they're gross. They're gross. Yeah. Disgusting. They're sitting there drying out, they look all nasty.
+
+[14:02] They're like a wrinkled dog. They're like a raisin-y old dog. That's no good. Not pretty. Not pretty.
+
+[14:09] Rollers are good hot hold for a certain length of time only. You know what I'm saying? And that length of time is not infinity. Yeah, first thing I thought I was the boil for him. Yeah.
+
+[14:18] Yeah. Dirty water dog. Easy, simple. Now, it you have to wrap your folks' mind around it. If you called it like dirty water dogs, maybe people would be like, oh, and that's a tip of the hat to New York right there.
+
+[14:31] If you're just calling it a dirty water dog, they'd be like, oh yeah. And then even though I have no idea whether Boston even has a hot dog culture, but you could be playing Love That Dirty Water by the uh who I who was it? What's that group? Oh my god, I can't remember. It's out of my head.
+
+[14:44] Standells by the by the Standels. It's the famous Boston Love That Dirty Water about the Charles River and how filthy it is. Love that dirty water, bump, bump, bump. You know the song? No one knows this song?
+
+[14:56] Yeah, I know the song. Yeah, Boston, you're my home. Anyway, so I I would go maybe that way in terms as long as you like it, why not go that way? Or were you thinking something else? Well, no, I think I think that might be the move.
+
+[15:10] Because we did a series of dogs at uh at the cocktail pop-up, and they're essentially what we did was dirty water and then a quick sear. And I mean, I can throw an induction cooker in there to be able to just put like a little color on it before it hits the bun, and then yeah, we're it's best of both worlds, I think. Yeah, or hell, you can color it beforehand, probably. Or color the bun. Yeah.
+
+[15:31] Uh uh, oh my God. Uh no one in New York, no one in New York does the the light, the lightly, the the buttered and lightly toasted on a griddle bun. And by the way, oh yeah. Yeah, I mean thinking of lobster roll, that's that same bun. Yeah, that's a can that's a Connecticut, that's a Connecticut thing right there.
+
+[15:49] You know what I mean? Oh, speaking of, in a in Alaska, I'm gonna have to look it up. I I went to a and we'll we'll talk about that in a minute after we're done talking about, but do you like the do you like the lightly toasted bun? Place called Yankee Doodle in in uh which was a lunch counter. It's an old lunch counter thing, right?
+
+[16:05] Like light top split. What are your feelings on top split, Josh? Uh for a hot dog, I kind of prefer the side split. Like I'm a I'm a potato roll guy, lately toasted. Listen, listen, listen.
+
+[16:19] What you should do is find someone who'll make you your potato roll, but top split. I don't know why the rest of the country is not on board with top split buns the way that New England is. New York, by the way, is a side split house, right? You get north of New York, you get like, you know, up in Connecticut, Massachusetts, up, and like you start seeing top splits, especially with lobster roll people, because lobster roll people know that the top split is the money. You know what I mean?
+
+[16:45] Top split lobster roll all day. Yeah. Also, top splits don't break open. Like a side split roll, the way you cut a split side split roll, they break open, hot dog falls through it, the goop. That's when it's a sandwich.
+
+[16:58] That's when that mother becomes a sandwich. You see, this is why like us folks up from here from the Northeast, we understand that when you make it the way God wants with a top split, right? It's a hot dog. You know what I mean? How sorry is it to look at a side split bun and you can see those edges and they cut all the way through it?
+
+[17:15] It's it's ridiculous. It looks like a catcher's mitt. Get get some top splits. You know what I mean? Love a top split.
+
+[17:24] You know, you can use potatoes in a top split, Josh. Don't be so close-minded. Hey, I'm opening anything. That's why I call. Yeah.
+
+[17:32] All right. I love a top split. I want the whole world. Also, top splits easier to make. You know what I mean?
+
+[17:39] You can because you can, you can s you can side them in a if you don't want that, if you don't need the top splits to look like a brioche. So you don't need so the classic top split, you can actually see the bread on the sides, right? So the only kind of crust you see is the bottom and the top where it's not on the split. And so you can bake them side by side in a pan. So they're also easier to make from a human being perspective.
+
+[18:05] How dumb is it? How dumb is it, Joe, that in a side split bun, you're holding it and there's like the top side on one side and the bottom side on the other side. It's ridiculous. What's your thought on cheese on a hit on a hot dog? Well, listen, there are there are uh it once you go beyond the standard hot dog, I think all bets are off.
+
+[18:23] Like if you're gonna wrap it in bacon. No, no, no. I just said just cheese. Like, you know, I'm thinking about like what old school, like the what is those dogs called the ballpark dogs. Oh, they well, I remember Oscar Meyer made a cheese dog that I used to love.
+
+[18:34] Because the ballpark had the dog cheese, the the cheese whiz in the dog when you bite into it. I mean, I'm not gonna say I don't like it. I we weren't allowed to have it as kids. Really? No, no.
+
+[18:45] No, boy. Kosher. Yeah, because of the trafeness, the traceness of the milk and meat. But were you like, were you like, hey, there's not real milk? Oh man.
+
+[18:56] Can you imagine a kosher cheese dog with like a vegan cheese in it? This good the the the meat eater's application for a vegan cheese. Even just the thought of a vegan hot dog is I mean, I don't know. I mean, eventually, like I don't see why you couldn't make uh I mean, uh of the things to make, it would seem like the easiest because it's an emulsified sausage anyway. So like what you know what I mean?
+
+[19:16] Like I feel you could do it. Yeah. I've I've haven't perused the recent, I'm sure in the past five years, the the the vegan hot dog game has jumped leaps and bounds above. I mean, I've I've played around with the meat analogs for like uh hamburger meat, but I've never played with uh the the hot dog analogs. But anyway, so I'm gonna recommend Top Split.
+
+[19:41] Man, man, that would be nice. I've never had a dirty water on a toasted bun. I think I would like it. I think I would too. I mean, uh, it's a great presentation because this hot water, I mean, the hot the hot water dog is all pretty much homogenous, one color.
+
+[19:55] Yeah. And then you get the deck. What's nice about the hot water dog, the dirty water dog, is is it is a pristine looking hot dog. It does snap better. Yeah, it snaps better.
+
+[20:06] The skin's always perfect. It's kind of a little bit of a glisten from that kind of greasy water that you pull it out of. I mean, uh, there's something to be said for it. There's a purity in it. Americans, in general, we don't necessarily appreciate muchness.
+
+[20:19] So, like, me too. I'm an American, right? Like a lot of char, a lot of crust, you know, a lot, lot, a lot. But like, uh, I don't know. There's something, there's something appealing about the just the I wanted to do some a concept once where we would have like different styles of hot dogs, but what a pain in the butt.
+
+[20:36] What a pain in the butt to so you would hot hold everything in like a in like a uh combi or an ANOVA. You'd hot hold it or a CVAP forever at like, you know, serving temp at like 140, and then you'd finish it in a million ways. So, like Josh said, you sear it, or you could throw it in a fryer and do like, you know, like do the rip and have it pop open, or you could like char grill it. But I was like, what a pain in the butt. Why don't you just choose a style?
+
+[21:01] But what you could do that I think would be fun. This I think you should do is like I think you should source different hot dogs. That's what I've I've always wanted to do that too. So like get get a couple of cases of uh I forget their name, the hot dog of note in Detroit. We, you know, we've talked about it on air.
+
+[21:15] I have to go back and look up at the hot dog of note in Detroit, get a couple cases of that, get some, you know, uh Zweigels from like up uh in uh Rochester area. If you want to do one of the new uh Connecticuts, like get some hummels, and then like, you know, have let people choose their hot dog based on provenance. Or what about country like Germany? Yeah, you can get but you can get anything you want. Frankford or I'm thinking right away, like the pretzel bun.
+
+[21:39] I love a pretzel bun. Yeah, I love a pretzel bun. But like in other words, like so you could have customization that way, and you could claim, and you wouldn't be lying, it does make your life easier, but you could also claim that you are trying to stick not to the authentic presentation, because every culture has its own way of presenting the dog or cooking the dog, but to the actual inherent nature of the dog itself by not covering it with anything other than its own broth. You know what I mean? So if you go that far, you know, just sell cups of the broth too.
+
+[22:13] Get you a big sign, points down, just says hot dog broth house. Well, I I had an idea. It sounded like a chicken. Like clam broth house. Well, there's the clam broth house, which I'm sure is what you're referencing, and you need to get uh you need to get a photo of your hand pointing down towards your towards your privates, male or female, and you gotta say, hot dog broth right here.
+
+[22:32] Right here. You know what I mean? To point down. Uh, but uh anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about, which I'm sure nine-tenths of you, look up clam broth house, which was in Jersey City or Hoboken, one of those. Uh look up clam broth house.
+
+[22:44] Uh, I think it was originally Umberto's, was it? No, that's and it I think it was just clam broth house. You look up because Umberto's was in a little littly here. Like you look up clam broth house, and it was a bar that that only closed, I think like 20 years ago, and they would have fountains that just had clam broth, like just coming out of them, and you would get drinks, but then when you wanted something that wasn't alcoholic, you just put your mug some tomato juice with it. I you know what that's interesting.
+
+[23:13] I don't I haven't spoken to anyone that had the clam broth. Oh, but I was wondering whether or not I I assumed it was a white clam broth, but you could be correct. It could be a tomato-based clam broth. It it's proximity to Manhattan and our terrible clam chowder. By the way, no one for those of you who don't live in New York or have not been to New York, we don't eat Manhattan clam chowder in Manhattan.
+
+[23:36] When people who are from Manhattan eat clam chowder, we eat the correct clam chowder, which is the white one. You know what I mean? Is anyone who's here who has ever lived or like been in Manhattan prefer the red-based clam chowder? No. No, of course not.
+
+[23:55] It's, you know, there, and I've never even had. There's apparently a Rhode Island clam chowder, which is different, which I've never even had. But I digress. I had this idea, Josh. I'm gonna give it to you because who cares, right?
+
+[24:09] I think, and I was telling the museum they should do this too. I think a hot dog ramen made with hot dog flavor. So to take take your day, is like amazing. So you could buy ramen bricks and just do like dirty water ramen using the dirty water broth, right? And then you could, you could have in your same hot hold, because the temperatures match, right?
+
+[24:35] You could have in the same hot hold eggs. So you could do, you could have your ramen pucks, you have your hot water dog, you'd have to keep some in a separate basin that was like kind of near the boil, right? And then you could just put the ramen thing into the bowl, sheboygan, put some of the hot some of the dirty water dog right over the ramen bowl, pull one of the eggs out of the hot dog hotholder, crack that sucker in, and then chop up the dog of choice, put it on money. You know what I mean? This is the sound of money.
+
+[25:05] You know what I mean? As uh Maximilian Riedel once told me when he was clinking his glasses together, Riedel. Maximilian Riedel from Riedel Glass, where it told me once as he is clinking together, cling is this is the sound of money because he was using his expensive glasses. And then you're gonna buy more when they break. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[25:23] Exactly. Yeah, listen, money in his pocket. You break his glasses, money in his pocket. You know what I mean? Same with all glass makers.
+
+[25:31] Only we feel bad when we break glasses because we have to buy more of them. Uh anyway, Josh, any of this helpful or is this all like uh useless noodling? No, yeah. Yeah, this is all great. I think uh I think the hot hold will be the way to go because I the onus is yeah, I want the dogs to be good, but I also have a whole retail shop I need to tend to.
+
+[25:51] So definitely it being speedy that way is uh is is great. I think I found the answer. But your wait, are you also serving liquor? Or just selling liquor? I can Yeah, go ahead.
+
+[26:03] Selling uh like bitters, fortified, and things like that. I can do everything except for distilled spirits. Okay. The only reason I say that is that like when you design a food system to be super, super efficient, but then you also have a cocktail program, you get to the weird position where your food tickets come out faster than your liquor tickets, and it becomes problematic. When when your food can like like greatly outstrip your your liquor in terms of a speed, everyone's like, what the what?
+
+[26:32] You know what I mean? Because they don't understand. Anyway, you know what I'm saying. As a pro, you know, you know what I'm talking about. Most people want their drink ticket to come out before their liquor, the uh their drink ticket to come out before their food ticket.
+
+[26:43] You know what I mean? Anyway. And by a ticket, for those of you that don't know what I'm talking about, when you order uh like a cocktail and or wine and or food, those tickets typically can print out in different places depending on who's actually serving it, right? So you could be in a situation where a bartender is totally in the weeds, slammed out, and they have a bunch of tickets on the rail, and the kitchen could be slow as all get out. So the kitchen could actually do the ticket, like make your food before your bartender even gets to your ticket, especially if there's no conversation between those two groups.
+
+[27:20] And so you could get your food and then waiting around for your drink, and you think that the and it is their fault. I mean, it is the place's fault. They could have communicated with each other better, but it's really easy for it to happen. You know what I mean? Um anyway.
+
+[27:35] Uh I don't know if that makes any sense to anyone, but does to me. Um, yeah, so let us know how it goes, what you choose to do. What which uh do you have any specific dogs you're thinking of getting yet? Like purveyors, hot dog purveyors? I'm uh I'm I'm waiting on some samples because we've got some uh local uh manufacturers, and I'd like to do local if possible, as long as they're you know nice and snappy.
+
+[27:58] Um but yeah, if you've got suggestions there, I'm open as well. But yeah, ask the discourse for their favorite dogs because we got to get people from I've only been to so many places, you know what I mean? So hard to know. You know, I once I think I said this on air a long time ago. One time I spent like a whole day making emulsified duck.
+
+[28:21] I bought duck, cut it all, you know, cut it all apart, got the fat ratios right, uh, froze the stuff down, emulsified, made emulsified thing, all this, you know, stuffed it. You know what they tasted like? Hot dogs. Because hot dogs taste like the hot dog spice. So I went through all that trouble of making a duck hot dog, and it tasted pretty much like hot dog.
+
+[28:43] But you were in New Orleans, right? You went to like the Confederacy of Dunts. Oh, I saw his statue. Ignatius, uh, whatever his name. His statue is right there uh on uh Canal Street, you know, next to one of the hotels.
+
+[28:55] I've never have I had a Lucky's dog. I've had a Lucky's dog in the airport. I didn't have the fortitude to actually get a Lucky's dog on this on the street. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[29:08] I mean, for those of you who don't know, Confederate's Confederacy of Dunces was uh I forget the author's name, but he's famous and died young. And uh, you know, I think the book only became popular after he died, right? Yep. But uh it's about this guy who has lots of issues, but one of his jobs is selling lucky dogs, which is an actual hot dog in New Orleans that's served from a hot dog-shaped cart. And it is famous for being served by let's you call them interesting folk.
+
+[29:38] Interesting folk serve the Lucky's dogs, and they're like in kind of like areas that are like John Kennedy Tool. Oh, there you go. Like they're in like they're like you'll get you can get a lucky dog. There's always one parked out of um on uh on bourbon by uh what's that bar? Uh Lafayette.
+
+[29:55] Uh, what's that bar called? Lafitte's right right there at like 2 a.m. And it's always a crap show there. So I've never bought the dog there, but next time. Good book to read.
+
+[30:07] Yeah. Yeah. David, have you gone and had their hot dog? No, I've never been in New Orleans. Always wanted to go.
+
+[30:11] Yeah, it's right there. I know. I know. I know. I wouldn't go in July.
+
+[30:15] No, I want to go for jazz. Yeah. Yeah, they have that. You know what I mean? They do.
+
+[30:21] Yeah. Uh anyway. Uh Josh, let us know. Uh let us know how it go. Absolutely.
+
+[30:27] We'll do. Thanks. All right, cool. Um, and that's the kind of conversation. I have to hop off in a second.
+
+[30:32] All right, so what do you got for the week? Or the two weeks. I have a very quick thing I'll leave you with. All right. Yeah.
+
+[30:37] Well, I had to have another crown. I had to have another crown. I have a gold crown now, so that kept me off of I know, it's insane. Is it is it gold? Before that.
+
+[30:44] Please, please, is it gold? It is. Oh my god. How many times, man? How many times did you listen to uh Tifus by uh five uh 300 pounds of goo?
+
+[30:52] How many how many times do you listen to that? Oh man, I hadn't hadn't thought about that. That song is like the greatest song to ever come out of Daytona Beach, I think. I'm pretty sure they're from Daytona Beach. Dropped out of college.
+
+[31:04] No, you have to go gold. I'm not I'm not an enemy of quality for my teeth. So where which one did you get the crown in gold? Muller? It's a molar in the back.
+
+[31:13] Okay, in the back. Yeah. No, it's not as visible as you'd hope. It's not like the picture frame one. Um but those that the thing I'll leave you with though, so I I took my girlfriend to a very nice omakase for her birthday like a few weeks ago.
+
+[31:26] And like eight-seater, you know, Edam May style. And how do they make money by that? Before you before you go, how do they make money? Is this rhetorical? Like I know the answer to this.
+
+[31:39] I don't know. How does any how do you make money with an eight-seat restaurant? How much was the bill, if you don't mind me asking? I'm just curious about this. And how many turns can they do?
+
+[31:44] I mean, it was like a 250. So here's the thing it's a sister restaurant to a larger and more expensive, maybe Michelin Starplace. I forget the name. It was Bar Sawa where we went. And then the restaurant.
+
+[31:58] I don't know. They're allowed to lose money in LA, right? They're allowed to lose money. I got you. Okay, go ahead.
+
+[32:03] Yeah, yeah. Okay, go ahead. So next to us, next to us, guy on a date. Uh and he's just like clearly not a food person, you know. I I don't want to make that judgment, but like finance or entertainment or something.
+
+[32:16] I don't know what. He's just one of these like LA looking rich people. How old? How old are we talking? And he's just uh early 40s, maybe late 30s, right?
+
+[32:26] Okay, okay. And he's just leaving pieces uneaten, like the uni, the toro, right? And the the chef, the Japanese, you know, he's like, uh, sir, I'm so sorry. Do you not like our sushi? And he goes, Oh no, man.
+
+[32:40] He's like, I I just ate before I came here. I'm good. It's good. I'm just I'm kind of full, man. Don't worry about it.
+
+[32:45] What the hell? What the hell? I've never seen anything like it. Wow. The whole entire like, you know, there's three people behind the buttons.
+
+[32:53] Everyone was just shocked and aghast. I mean, was he high? It was okay to just No, no. I think he was just indifferent and the girl wanted it and he couldn't care less. Why didn't the girl eat his sushi?
+
+[33:07] Great question. But my next question was why can't I have it then? Oh my god, what if you had been like excuse me? Excuse me. That would have been amazing.
+
+[33:16] I thought about it. I mean, the thing is, right? I've never in that kind of a a meal, right? I've never left being like, oh my god, I can't have another bite. You know what I mean?
+
+[33:30] No. If anything, the opposite. It's the opposite, usually. I mean I'm like, wow, I could have had another 10 uses. Yeah, I've left with, oh my God, my wallet can't sustain another bite.
+
+[33:39] But I've never left with That's correct. You know what I mean? So it's like that's just weird. Like, this is what I'm saying. Like, I don't think you would ever see that over here, right?
+
+[33:48] I don't think so. It felt like a very LA thing, I have to say. Well, what's what's interesting is like, I guess, you know, like a very American perspective is I'm paying, I'll do what I want. I'll eat what I want, I'm paying for it, right? But that's just not the way you're supposed to do that.
+
+[34:05] You know what I'm saying? I'm paying, I can be wasteful if I want. Yeah. Yeah. He would have been sent out of Japan.
+
+[34:12] He would have been taken to the airport immediately from the restaurant. If you sent home. If anyone can hear who knows this person, because you would know. You would know. If if you knew this person, you would know that that it was them because who else is gonna do that?
+
+[34:27] They're the ones that make it hard for us to get reservations in Japan. You know what I mean? Because like everyone's gonna call be like that's right. Yeah. Some white dude from America came to my restaurant and get this.
+
+[34:39] He said he ate before he came. He didn't finish this sushi. What? And that's it. We're all hosed.
+
+[34:45] You know what I mean? Right. We can't get reservations. Oh my Jesus. Yeah, because of this guy.
+
+[34:52] Because of this guy. Yeah. Weasel. Yeah. So anyway, that's my parting.
+
+[34:57] That's my parting thought. You got nothing else? Two weeks. When was the crown? No, I felt I've soft foods.
+
+[35:03] Uh the crown was last week. So you know, like uh late like Friday. Do they still smash mercury into the gold before they pack it in your teeth that they don't do that anymore? Week. No, they didn't they do not.
+
+[35:14] I had a silver filling before, which was the problem. Uh well, why would you get silver? Why would you get it? Why would you get a filling that that you know is gonna oxidize when you could get gold, which is I was a kid, I was a kid, and I had a crazy Italian dentist uncle, and uh that's just what he did. Did he did he do it like at like at dinner one night?
+
+[35:35] You're like, oh little Jackie Molecules, his tooth is messed up. Hey, I got silver with me. Oh, and then well, unless you want the gold molecular I got on my neck No, no, no, no, my mother gave that to me. Exactly. Is that what happened?
+
+[35:50] He he did he did live at uh no, it was just it was a house slash office, so pretty much. Oh my god. Yeah, yeah. So listen. Anyway, I'm back.
+
+[35:58] I'll be eating normal for the rest of the week. Okay. All right, we'll be safe. I hope you don't uh sit next to this fool again ever. God.
+
+[36:08] What if you ever what if you uh what if you showed up and he was there, you walk, got up and left. Like, nope, not doing it. No, no, that happened to my stepfather made Steve Martin get up once from a restaurant. So they sat down and like they got their meal. Steve Martin walks in, sits down at the table, is looking at my stepfather straight on, like looking at him.
+
+[36:32] My stepfather picks up by accident. I wasn't there, he told me a story. Picks up by accident the vinegar instead of the ketchup and just goes shablam and pours vinegar all over his plate. Steve Martin looks, sees this, gets up, walks out of the restaurant. That's it.
+
+[36:46] Over. You know, and my stepfather's meal was run. Twice. Two problems. Anyway.
+
+[36:52] Uh all right, man. Uh uh, hope you're uh hope you can get on that hard food. Get on that hard food. Everyone loves everyone loves solid foods if they can have them. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[37:01] He left. Man. Thanks, Jack. All right. Mr.
+
+[37:05] Lequin, what do you got? Um let's see. This past weekend, we've been, again, hitting a lot of uh new cheeses. We found a second new cheese shop in the other town over. This one did local local cheese.
+
+[37:27] And uh they had uh their own buffalo mozzarella. They actually had their own Parmesan style cheese. It was pretty good. I mean, it's not like I mean, but they're all over the map here. First of all, where are they getting their buffalo milk from?
+
+[37:42] Do they grow buffalo on Vancouver Island or are they shipping the milk in with the curtain? Oh yeah, and no, again, this second shop is a shop that's like attached to a farm. Because you wouldn't find the same person doing a cow's milk cheese and a buffalo cheese in Italy. You know what I mean? This is I'm I'm being I'm playing the part of Nastasio Lopez here, where you're like, listen, choose something to be good at and be good at it.
+
+[38:08] You know what I mean? They did a buffalo brie, which was nice. I don't even understand. I like here's the thing. It's not brie.
+
+[38:19] Do you know what I mean? It's not brie. You know what I mean? Like, it could be it could be delicious. Bloom grind, bloom grind cheese.
+
+[38:29] All right. There you go. There you go. That makes more sense. It's like uh this is like the argument I had with uh Sam Edwards about his uh about uh, you know, from uh his wigwam hams and all these where he he makes his sp the the ham that he thinks of his, which is by the way, an American ham, right?
+
+[38:49] Made in the American style, calls it Suriano to like kind of a uh tip of the hat to Surrey, uh, Virginia, where he's from, and uh, you know, Serrano ham's from Spain. I'm like, why are you doing that? What why are you doing that? It's not a Spanish ham. You know what I mean?
+
+[39:07] Don't call it Brie if it's not Brie. You know what I mean? People want that name recognition, but I think there's a fine line, right? So I'm sure there's like the I and I'm I'm probably economically wrong. I was uh because the average person wants to buy something with some name recognition.
+
+[39:25] But I think the actual, if you're trying to cultivate like people who actually care, right, they are gonna be turned off by the fact that you're using a protected name that you don't have the rights to in your in your name. You know what I mean? Because then you are uh uh an erzatz. You know, you are a false or a a a Brie imitation rather than your own, like, you know, uh, you know, bloom rine cheese. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[39:53] Like, you know, I don't know. Like call it like protected. Well, I mean, I don't I'm I'm sure in in in France, you're not allowed to just, you know, set up shop, make cheese, and call it Brie. I I have you know, I didn't know we were gonna talk about it, so I didn't look up the actual statistics of it. But like there's plenty of places, like for instance, there's all these things that are called Cammon Bear that aren't Cam Bear.
+
+[40:17] You know what I mean? Like, it's just I don't know, it's always odd to me. You know what I mean? Um, when you're in Italy, then your cheese has to be D-O-C-P. I I did not look into it all all the but like my point being that even if it's even if it's a name that's been so polluted that you can't claim a protection for it, it does come from a place and is a thing.
+
+[40:42] So why not just you not use the name? Especially because there are so many different bloomed grind cheeses that have this similar uh you know, candy candida or candida, I don't forget, mold on the outside of it, right? So you have like Brignata, which is I believe peck green, I forget, out of uh out of Italy, you have a whole bunch of different bloom rind cheeses. Why you why you gotta why you gotta jump on the Brie Wagon, you know what I mean? Because it's the most famous one.
+
+[41:12] Uh I understand it. Listen, if you're out there and you make this product, I'm not saying I'm what I'm saying is do what you need to do to make the most money, right? Who am I to tell you not to feed your kids? You know what I'm saying? Like do what you do what you need to do.
+
+[41:25] But I'm just saying I wish it wasn't the case that for economic reasons you had to go ahead and name your s your product, which I'm sure you care about, you know what I mean, after some other product. Because it it puts you in the same bucket as like craft, who then will like, you know, call their cheese Swiss cheese or even, you know, I don't I guess maybe I don't know if they're allowed to use Emmentoller as a name, but you know what I mean? And it just puts you in that same bucket of people who don't necessarily care about their product. That's all. Not saying now I'm insulting craft.
+
+[41:55] I'm not trying to insult anybody. You know what I mean? I'm just trying to say, you know, be your own person. If you can, but I mean, I I I felt like I feel like breeze are pretty, in my opinion, cat like just a category. Nah.
+
+[42:13] I I don't consider that. No. You know, I don't know. Whatever. But how was this Buffalo milk product?
+
+[42:22] I'm also I'm also a how was it? There was definitely a lot uh milder. I had another, a different town milk cheese from that bloomer from a different local producer. Definitely think a bit more soft and sort of flunky, but the Buffalo uh version was you know a milder firmer, but I don't mind that for certain I mean uh applications. Most of the times when I want, I mean, my application for cheese is usually eating it.
+
+[43:00] And like for my money on bloom rind cheeses, my although there are, for instance, that brinata I mentioned, which I can't remember which milk, is like supposed to be young and taste more like the milk, but in you know, I'm I am much more of a fan in bloom rind cheeses that get that kind of mushroom y note and kind of like you know, are more yield yielding, right? Uh I mean, look, you know, there are some like well-known industrial triple creams that are they're delicious. Who's gonna lie? Like San Andre or something like this that is industrially produced but still tastes good, you know what I mean? But uh, yeah.
+
+[43:41] But here's another thing, and this is gonna be unpopular. For however quote unquote authentic or inauthentic it might be, I really like American style, especially like, you know, New Jersey style cow's milk mozzarella, like Italian American style mozzarella. Like I really like it. You know what I mean? Like the milkiness of it, the way it just, and I actually prefer it, maybe because I grew up to the kind of the buffalo milk style, which, you know, and they age differently, right?
+
+[44:14] So like buffalo milk a lot of times seems to get softer and softer as it's being held in the in the liquid, whereas like the the cow's milk one doesn't. It gets like firmer. But like today's cow, like one that was made just now and is perfect, and like soup I'm a fan of the milky style. Super milky on like bread with some tomatoes, just some oil over the top of it, I think it's delicious. Whereas I've never had a buffalo milk mozzarella that made me want to bang my head against the wall.
+
+[44:41] You know what I mean? I I like it. But I've never had one that made me like lose my mind. Now, but I've never been to where they make it either. You know what I mean?
+
+[44:50] So you know, where they make it traditionally. I've never been to where they make it traditionally. Yeah. I like flattery. Yeah.
+
+[45:02] What'd you say about butter? We uh we did we did find a Canadian butter, although not local. But for me, it's almost as good as the uh really fancy, fancy uh French stuff. Well, again, Ontario. They're different styles.
+
+[45:18] Which French one did you have? It wasn't the barat or it was the barat. Uh uh St. Igne's. Oh, yeah.
+
+[45:26] I mean, listen, did you do you have a uh like can you get the Ocelli up there? Uh we've been looking. I I can't find it yet. Yeah, I don't know. Like again, for an uncultured butter, that's the my favorite one I've had for uncultured butter.
+
+[45:45] Hmm. Salted or unsalted? Um I think it's unsalted. I think it's Bridget. Saint Bridget out of Ontario.
+
+[45:55] Yeah. That's actually closer to me than it is to you. I mean, like, you know, you could throw a stone from New York and hit Ontario, but you you know, not New York City, but you know what I'm saying. Uh-huh. Yeah.
+
+[46:09] All right. All right. Any uh any cooking stuff? Uh uh again, we made uh we we've been buying a lot of cheese, so we did a a four cheese risotto on the weekend. That turned out pretty good.
+
+[46:23] Oh yeah. Four cheese which four you can't just say four cheeses and not say what cheeses they are. And also you know how I hate even numbers. You know how I hate even numbers in cooking. Hate them.
+
+[46:35] Well, I feel like four cheese is is a classic uh moniker, isn't it? Yeah. I just don't know what which four cheeses were they? We did uh Picorina Romano, uh Manchego, a blue uh yeah, an actual breeze from France. And a cheddar that I think was either Quebec or Ontario.
+
+[47:00] I forget. You're literally all over the map there, dude. Like all over the map with your cheeses. All right. Four cheeses, four countries.
+
+[47:08] Yeah. All right. How was it? Really good. Also interesting, a purple risotto rice?
+
+[47:17] Oh, really? It's like actually like a black rice. And then they almost totally polish it. It's like has like a pinky purple sort of hue to it. But the color is from the rice and not like a bamboo rice where it's added later.
+
+[47:38] I believe so, yeah. Uh so what was I gonna say? I forget. Oh, polish. What?
+
+[47:47] About the polishing? No, I mean everyone knows that I'm a fan of this rice polisher. But whatever. I mean, like I think that everyone if you have the money and like want are interested in making your own versions of rice, real good. Also, like even if you buy, let's say you buy it's just it's just a little literally just an agitator, right?
+
+[48:07] Yeah. It's like it's it's like a it's like a strainer basket that's a little bit, you know how like some strainer baskets are smooth and some are rough? It's like a rough strainer basket and a little like paddle. And it just and it knocks the rice against the strainer basket, and the the holes in the strainer basket are too small to let the rice out. Of course.
+
+[48:24] But they're too strainer. Yeah, but they're too, you know, but they're big enough to let out the brand. So you get this very finely powdered brand that comes off of it. And depending on how long it does it, you can leave the germ on or you can leave on a portion of the brand, etc. etc.
+
+[48:39] I think. Did you do anything with the brand? I yes, you can make nuka pickles with it. I haven't because I had such a bad experience doing wheat brand nuka pickles where they're delicious for like a month and then they and then they turn crazy on me. Because I think that like the whatever the temperature of my kitchen is is not the best for wheat nuka pickles.
+
+[48:59] But you are correct. I could now, if I had saved all my rice, I could have started a rice nuka pickle situation, and I should have, so I feel bad. But what's nice about it is is that the intermediate milling, I think, is, and I use it with wheat too, but the intermediate milling is kind of cool. You know what I mean? And here's another like a pro tip for you.
+
+[49:18] So if you if you buy a like a large quantity of brown rice and you don't use it right away, when you open the uh that container, because you should keep your rice sealed because of weevils, duh, right? When you open the container, you get that very clear, light painty aroma of rancidity. And you can smell it in old brown rice. And so that's a sign that that rice has been stored too long, right? With on in oxidative conditions.
+
+[49:47] So like just a light polished, like, dude, just like you know what I mean? Like very light, like number one, like just taking off the outer layer, rice smells clean again. Really? Yeah. You can get you can you can bring that brown rice back and it's semi-brown, but still mostly brown.
+
+[50:04] You can get rid you can knock some of the uh uh rancidity off the outside of rice that's a little over the hill with it. But um I was gonna say, have we done the power rankings of of uh of uh milks of cheese milks? I can't recall. So uh have we? I mean, I think if you could only choose one, you'd have to go cow, right?
+
+[50:28] You'd have to, because just so many cows' milk cheeses. But for me, my feeling, and this is what's controversial, I like goat cheese a lot. Me too. But I love sheep's milk cheese. And so if I had to pick like whether or not you kept only sheep's milk cheese or only goat's milk cheese, I'd have to go with sheep.
+
+[50:51] I love sheep's milk cheeses, dude. Love a pecarino. Uh what anyone disagree? Anyone would take goat over sheep? Or anyone would take both of them over cow?
+
+[51:04] No. Yeah. Well, I mean, I mean, I it feels unfair because I feel like if we said our country, cow's milk is just so much more dominant. Every country. Um I mean, every what country what country as a whole that is a ch a producer of lots of different kinds of cheeses, does cow not dominate.
+
+[51:32] And what's what's considered the queen of Italian cheeses? Parmigiano. Cow. You know what I mean? Like, even though like they are probably like the world's greatest sheep, you know, cheese producer, or one of them.
+
+[51:45] Anyway, um, I guess, you know, places like what, like Bulgaria, sheep is the money. But like they have great cheese, but it's not, they don't have maybe I'm not I've never been to Bulgaria, so I shouldn't say a damn thing, but I mean, who has the diversity of like uh an Italy or a France or an England? You know what I mean? Or UK, I should say. Um Sean writes in, I love the tea time from Liquid Intelligence, uh, which uses milk washing of a tea-infused vodka to remove tannins.
+
+[52:13] So basically, what anyway, let me finish the question first. I am now vegan, uh, leaving the honey aside for now. I'm wondering if there is any other technique that might be experimented with removing the tannins from tea and or tea infused liquor. So, what Sean is talking about is uh a technique where uh so I always had a problem making um tea shaking drinks, uh tea drinks, because the colder tea is, the more astringent the uh the tannins of appear on your on your tongue, right? Like you think about this, when you overchill something that has either wood or tea or tannins in it, those tannins become more prominent as the other flavors, especially things like sugar drop out, right?
+
+[52:52] So there's that. And it's also uh accentuated by in in alcohol, right? So I've always had an issue with very highly tea-flavored alcoholic um drinks, especially shaken ones, because they're typically colder and they're more diluted, so there's less of the alcohol profile and sugar profile there to cover up the tannins, so they become very astringent. So in order to get around that problem, I looked to the English who add milk, and plenty of people add milk to their tea, right? And what the milk does, the casein in the milk binds with the tannins in the tea.
+
+[53:25] They complex, and then if you remove the casein by breaking it with an acid, right? This and then this, by the way, is functionally equivalent to what milk punch is, right? Uh or what people now I think incorrectly and crazily classify as milk clarification, right? Because milk is there to strip out flavors. So it's being used as a stripping agent to strip out these uh polyphenols.
+
+[53:48] As this so that's where the tea time comes from, and it's that and it's a mixture, you know, it's originally envisioned as an alcoholic shaken Arnold Palmer. So it's a honey syrup, a uh which is, you know, 640 grams of uh honey, sorry, 640 grams of water per kilo of honey, that equals a 50 brick syrup. So it's two, you know, of the of the milkwash, uh half of or you know, half or fat half of the of lemon juice and fat or la fat half of of the uh honey. And the honey has proteins in it, which help the foaming. Crucially, and this is what I'm gonna talk about when I'm answering this question, crucially, there are two things that the milk is doing that if you want to do a vegan thing, you'll have to mimic.
+
+[54:30] One, the casein is binding with, as we said before, is binding with the polyphenols in the tea, and um you're extracting them when you then curd the casein together and filter it out, right? So that's the first function in the tea time that the milk is doing. The second function in the tea time is that the whey proteins that are left over in uh because the whey is not taken out, and this is why like traditional whey-based cheeses, like traditional ricotta, not whole milk ricotta that you know we use a lot now, but like whey based ricotta. Um, those uh proteins stay soluble for a long time in the in the milk wash product, and they are great foaming agents. So the honey, which has protein helps foaming.
+
+[55:17] The uh lemon, which has pectin uh and other soluble stuff in it, which promotes uh holding on to foam, and the whey proteins, which are actual foaming agents, right, make the tea time have this nice like head on it when it's shaken properly, as long as the milk wash is fresh, like within about four days. After about four days, the in the alcohol, the whey proteins tend to agglomerate, form a haze, and settle out of the drink after which uh out of the liquor, after which it's lost its foaming powder power. So you're gonna need to do two things. You're gonna need to add a foamer, and you can use you know any one of the commercial foamers, uh the one, you know, the one that we make, we use a mixture of uh gum arabic, uh, methyl cell F50, make sure it's F50, and um Xanthan gum, a little bit of Xanthan gum to promote the foaming. Uh you know, and I think you can buy pre-made mixtures of this with which may also have some guar from Modernist Pantry, check it out.
+
+[56:14] Um, you know, I make my own, but I think you can buy ones. And then uh in a di and you probably can add that if you give it enough time. It'll probably go take a long time. You could probably add that directly to the liquor base, but it's gonna take a long time. It depends, actually, you know what?
+
+[56:35] Not the Xanthan might be hard to get in. It's on the edge. If you get enough time, it might it might go in. It's always better to dissolve that stuff in water and then add it. So if you have the time to dissolve that stuff into your your the water you're gonna use for your syrup, that might be a better alternative uh because it can definitely go into water.
+
+[56:54] So, anyways, so now the problem you have is the complexing. Now, what's doing the work of complexing? I don't know that something like oat milk or coconut milk or any of these other things that you can add actually have the binding capability. And so I think soy might, I don't know, you're gonna need to run some tests. Um there are some tests with pea protein uh using pea protein and its ability to uh bind with polyphenols, and then you can curdle them out the same way.
+
+[57:27] Uh, but I just haven't run the tests on it. You're gonna need a protein that is soluble, uh, and then you're probably gonna need to pre-soluble it because a lot of these things will drop out of solution once they bind to the polyphenols and tannins. So it's just gonna take some experimenting with other very active, uh, I would look at things that are used as casein um replacers, any protein like that, but it's gonna be protein-based. So maybe there's some soy proteins, things that will work, but they have to be fully functional, not like you know, denatured or whatever, or they won't do they won't do their job properly. What do you think?
+
+[58:01] Uh Quinn, I got that covered in smother or no. Yeah, I think so. All right. Alexander writes in, hi. This is something I've been struggling with a bit in general, but now have a specific uh case to solve as well.
+
+[58:13] Are there any emulsifiers that can handle acidic environments without splitting? For instance, I want to create a nutslash seed milk in milk in quotes and use it in a drink. But whenever we introduce even a small amount of acid like raspberries, it splits. Are there any emulsifiers that can work for this? Uh if it matters, we're currently working on sesame seeds, but would love to have something that works in a broader sense.
+
+[58:31] So the real question is what are the best emulsifiers for an acidic solution? So you there are two things with oils. Uh, first of all, uh the the one that I use in the book uh and I've been using for years and years, works very well in very highly acidic environments, and I have used it with sesame, is a mixture of gum Arabic and Xanthan. Uh and uh I gotta look up the exact ratio you use, but it's it's mostly gum Arabic with like a little bit of xanthan. Then the gum arabic is the emulsifier, and gum arabic has the great advantage that it can work in uh acidic, non-acidic, and it can go from non-acidic to acidic without breaking.
+
+[59:09] It can go from cold to hot without breaking, and it can stand very big changes in dilution without breaking. So gum Arabic is the one, it's expensive, right? But it's very good at this. The problem is it, and this is what you need to look at splitting, it's greatly uh in enhanced with solids. So once you increase solids in your like like sesame paste.
+
+[59:33] So, so like for instance, tahini versus sesame oil, it's a lot harder to stop like emulsified tahini from breaking when it's shaking. Or like coconut milk is different because it's it's got a very high solids content. So that's why if you look at the back of a Coco Lopez container, it's got a spray of things in it, like guar, locust bean, like uh Xanthan, it's got all of them in it, polysorbates, because those ones are very much harder. So, like if you give me the specific application, if you're using sesame oil, then Arabic Xanthan is gonna work great in all your environments. As soon as there's solids in it, you're gonna need to add a couple more things.
+
+[1:00:13] So, Alexander, please send me more specific recipe, what you tried, uh, and like what kind of your your solid solids level is. Uh, because strangely, if you overstabilize with xanthan, like I've done before, you can actually cause it to break even more. But I can get more into that later once I know your specifics, so I can help you solve your specific problem. This has been cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues, coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan Rocket Fellow Center, New York City News Stand Studio, joined as usual with John. How are you doing? Doing great, thanks. Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels.
+
+[0:22] What's up? Hey, hey, hey. Shake it, shake it. Doing well. We do not have uh Jackie Molecules, but we do have Nastasia the Hammer Lopez for the beginning part of the show down in Los Angeles.
+
+[0:33] How you doing? I'm good. Good. And holding down the upper left corner, uh, we have Quinn. What's up?
+
+[0:42] Hey. Hey. Good. Uh if you have any questions, if you're listening on Patreon, have any questions, call your questions in 2917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507.
+
+[0:54] And I'll say a little programming note. I will not be here next week, not because of the holiday, which is actually on the Monday, but because I will be in Cologne talking about Jaegermeister to a bunch of German bartenders. Whoa, that's awesome. You're gonna drink some Kolsch? Uh hell yeah.
+
+[1:13] I mean, I have to say, like, if you're gonna get shipped to Germany, right? Get shipped to the place where they have the little beer glasses and not like Moss beer. I'm sorry, Germany. That's just gross. How many days are you saying?
+
+[1:25] You know, Stas. Have you how many how long ago have you met me? One. No, I mean one. Well, here's here's the issue.
+
+[1:31] Like, there is no direct flight to Cologne, period, from New York. So I have to fly to Frankfurt. So in other words, it's always a plus one day, so I I've already can't do what I normally do and like fly in, touch the ground, do my demo, and get back on an airplane and and uh get back. So I'm actually not coming back until Friday morning. So yeah.
+
+[1:51] Yeah. But I haven't thought about Jaegermeister since college. What are you gonna be doing? I'm glad you asked that, Johnny. So Nastasia Lopez and I, years ago, back before Jimmy Fallon got his uh like the fancy late night gig and he had the late late night gig, he was allowed to talk about his alcohol likes and dislikes.
+
+[2:10] And turns out Jimmy Fallon, he likes it the Jaegermeister. Okay. So uh Nastasia and I uh when we were this is the when we got given the rotovap by Bukey back when Bukey USA used to be like European Bukey and give stuff away. Remember that guy? Robert Crady.
+
+[2:27] Remember him, Stas? Crotchfest. Crot yeah, Crotchfeld, Robert Crotchfeld. That was his name. Robert Crotchfeld.
+
+[2:34] Anyway. So we made flaming Jaegermeister for Jimmy Fallon, and I have to tell you something. Delicious. Delicious. Let me wrap your see.
+
+[2:44] I think Jaegermeister gets a particular attitude in the US because it's like, you know, Jaeger bombs, Jaeger bombs. Right. However, it is fundamentally from a flavor standpoint, relatively plug and play swappable with Amaro. Right? It's a Krautcher liqueur or a Krautra, a Kreuter.
+
+[3:02] I don't know how they pronounce it right, because I haven't taken German in 30 years. But it's relatively swappable back and forth. So I'm gonna do a burnt Jaeger. I'm gonna do a uh a carbonated, like uh a Jaegermeister spritz, which is delicious, by the way, with champagne acid. I'll give you guys specs when I get back.
+
+[3:19] And then uh maybe shake it with a cream syrup and a little rum. Anything that would work with an Amaro, you can make it work with Jaegermeister, right? But their hero shot. By the way, for those not in the industry, anyone who comes up with a liquor, they're like, what's the hero pour? Because for some reason, cocktails and heroes have to be somehow aligned.
+
+[3:40] Makes no sense. I'm stupid. But uh the the hero pour is just an ice cold, ice cold shot. That's literally their their hero pour. So it's moved away, even on a corporate level in Europe, from being like like a proper like digestive or you know, anyway, whatever.
+
+[4:00] Yeah. 56 herbs. So anyway, so that's what uh that's what I'll be doing. Uh what do you guys and last week I was in North Adams, uh, Massachusetts with the family, so I didn't do much cooking. So what do you guys got from a cooking standpoint?
+
+[4:15] I've been eating really delicious melon. Oh, yeah. What kind? Bonnie melon. Describe now, you know I'm not a melon guy, so you're gonna have to tell me.
+
+[4:24] It's kind of feels like it tastes between a a honeydew and a cantaloupe. It's got the color and worst of both worlds. It's I think it's delicious. Um yeah, I do hate honeydews. Really?
+
+[4:36] Yeah. But this one had the texture and color of cantaloupe, but that like sour brightness of honeydew, and it was really great. What does the outside look like? Netted? Is it netted?
+
+[4:47] Yeah, netted like green and yellow. Yeah, and is it uh like what is it like is it round or is it uh football shaped? Round, pretty small, too. Small, okay. So like, uh I don't know what size it is.
+
+[5:00] It's not uh there's no there's no sports. It's like the size of the Mexican ball game from like, you know, Aztec Maya times. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[5:13] All right. Yeah. But different than a musk melon? I've not had a musk melon. It's a great word.
+
+[5:19] Well, well, weren't we talking about that the cantaloupes were we haven't actually had a cantaloupe, a true cantaloupe since the 70s because it's been overtaken by the musk melon from the uh somewhere uh in i in Asia, they've crossed the um the the the fruit and the cantaloupe is on it's hard to find now, a true cantaloupe. I vaguely remember this conversation, but because I care so little about melons of any type, it just one of those things that like people, uh it just went out of my head. You know what I mean? No tangent Tuesdays on cooking issues. I believe you.
+
+[5:53] Yeah, it looks like it. So is it Bonnie like Bonnie Prince Charlie with a Y or like I with the Y. Yeah. Yeah. Nice.
+
+[6:01] Uh sweet. Are they are they super expensive? No, they're like four dollars a pound. I mean, I guess that's no, that's good. There's another one that's going around right now, the Zer Zerbani melon coming from Italy, and that one's really good, but that's like $17 a pound.
+
+[6:14] Come on. Swear. What does it do for a living? Don't know. It's outrageous.
+
+[6:19] Like, you know, your Bonnie melons here say, oh, I'm for a pound. I'm already expensive for a melon compared to watermelon. Hey yo, I'm 17. Well, what do you what do I get for the extra It's like a really good cantaloupe? And that's from Italy.
+
+[6:32] Is it $15 more a pound? Or to put it in other terms, like how like what is that, four almost five times more money? Yeah, I don't know. I got it as a sample once and it was delicious, but I would never buy it. It's crazy.
+
+[6:43] Rich man's melon. Yeah. Yeah. Especially because these each melon I think is at least like two, two and a half pounds. So it's yeah, wild.
+
+[6:50] I mean, that's nothing compared to like Japanese or high end Japanese or high end like Taiwanese or Korean fruit. Which, you know, a melon for under $200. What are you? What do you pour? You know what I mean?
+
+[7:02] It's like crazy, but like uh yeah. All right. Um I wish I liked melons because I understand that people love them. Yeah. Just not everyone has their thing.
+
+[7:13] Yeah. That they don't like. Exactly. We said we were gonna start asking chefs when they come on what they hate, and then we we s we didn't do it ever. No.
+
+[7:14] We have to get back on it. You think it's mean to do that? No. We got time to build up to it because we don't have a guest until end of September, I think, with Jeremy Fox. So or mid-September, but yeah.
+
+[7:29] Yeah, mid-September's like next week. Two weeks. All right. Um about you, Stas, what do you got? I haven't really gone out to eat in a while.
+
+[7:40] Um I'm having another big party on Monday with the with Noah Gallatin and Ari Collander from Found Oyster and the bartender from Donna's, which means nothing to you guys because you don't live here. Um I'm excited about Spinal Tap. Somebody probably lives in LA who's listening to you. You excited about what? The new Spinal Tap movie.
+
+[8:06] Wait, what? There's a new Spinal Tap movie. Yeah. Is anybody dead from the original? I don't think so.
+
+[8:16] Oh my god. That's so good. Uh you know what? Nigel, what was his last name? Tufnell?
+
+[8:22] Is that his last name? Oh my god. What a great are they gonna like reissue like is it smell the glove? It's been so long since I've seen, or is it sniff the glove? I can never remember.
+
+[8:31] I'm gonna have to rewatch Spinal Tap. What a great movie. Remember when he here's what I don't understand. So he shoves a cucumber in his pants to make it look like his package is large. Yes.
+
+[8:42] And he walks through an airport, but he has it wrapped in aluminum foil, so it sets off the metal detector. But what's the point of wrapping the cucumber in aluminum foil before you put it in your pants? Is it so that you can eat the cucumber without washing it? But you're either gonna wash or peel the cucumber anyway. What's the aluminum foil for?
+
+[9:02] I haven't given it much thought. Maybe so that it doesn't if it breaks or whatever, it's with it contained, you know? I mean, what if someone punches him in the in the cucumber and it like he doesn't want to get cucumber seeds all over his maybe? I don't know. But uh, oh my god, that's such a good movie.
+
+[9:20] I didn't even know they were coming out. That's how much of a uh hole my head is in. But uh oh, the mini Stonehenge, remember the mini Stonehenge? Classic. That's our life.
+
+[9:30] Yeah, yeah. That's our life. Our life is mini Stonehenge. You know what I mean? Uh yeah.
+
+[9:36] And the other one was uh, I mean, like, everyone knows they turn it up to 11. I literally used to make equipment and people would make me renumber the dials from like from one to eleven. Ridiculous. Great. Well, I'm excited.
+
+[9:48] Is that coming out anytime soon? I think it's the ninth. Hmm. All right. Well, I love it.
+
+[9:55] Now I'll go well, you know what? Thanks for uh thanks for good thoughts. But no food, no food-related stuff, huh? The closest I could get with spinal tap was cucumbers. I can't remember any other food-related things from it.
+
+[10:05] Here's a random food thing about about traveling and like so. My brother-in-law, Travis, who's the photographer on liquid intelligence, number of other things. With the exception of possibly two states, he's had a grilled cheese sandwich in every state in the union. Every single state. He can't remember whether he has a South Dakota sandwich.
+
+[10:29] I think I think it's I think it's North Dakota and South Dakota, or maybe the two that he doesn't have. I'm not sure. But he needs to go get those sandwiches. And he's like, it doesn't count if someone mails him a sandwich. I was like, can I just I know someone there?
+
+[10:42] I can get them to mail you a sandwich. He's like, that does not count. You know what I mean? Every single state. And but not like fancy.
+
+[10:44] So Stas, you would actually like it. He doesn't care what they tasted like at all. You know what I mean? I'm like, which one's best? He's like, I don't I don't care.
+
+[10:56] Doesn't matter. He's like, I just want to have a grilled cheese sandwich in every every state. Maybe it's Hawaii's missing. Maybe it's Hawaiian North Dakota. I don't think he's been to Hawaii.
+
+[11:06] I've also never been to Hawaii someday. Unless I die. Uh what about you, Quinn? I know you got some stuff usually. Uh yeah, we did a not as much last few weeks.
+
+[11:19] I did make my the uh fresh herb gelato from my book, but I did take advantage of the actual um ninja machine blades to sort of streamline the process. So usually I blanch and puree whatever herb is in the recipe and then blend it right into the into the dairy base. But I did experiment with just shoving like very large pieces of herbs right into the container. And it does work if you process it once and then fully freeze it again, and then only serve it the second time. Right, because otherwise it'll oxidize like a mother.
+
+[12:17] Well, like I also just I did taste it after the first process, and uh the ninja machine, you know, power doesn't quite totally pulverize uh the herbs. Right, but I'm more I'm more interested in the little bit. I mean, I'm more interested in the oxidation factor, right? Because the reason you blanch it normally is because it oxidizes. Well, what first of all, what herb are you talking about?
+
+[12:44] Because it doesn't matter with parsley, just throw it in the blender. Like what like this time this time with basil. Yeah, so basil makes a difference, right? So basil makes a difference, obviously. Mint is the hardest.
+
+[12:55] Uh and par parsley is the easiest. Mint right now. Yeah. But it's still uh mint a nightmare. It's still doing the first freeze.
+
+[13:06] It's a complete nightmare in terms of oxidation. You know what I mean? Nightmare. Um so far, the basil is it's definitely less bright than like when I did it for the book with the full blanching. When you say when you say bright, yeah, wait, hold on a sec.
+
+[13:27] Before you before you go further, do you mean bright visually or bright flavor-wise? Visually. Yeah. I mean, the problem with the problem with blanching. Very good.
+
+[13:39] Problem with blanching is as as Harold McGee points out in The Curious Cook, which is out of print, sadly, but available at a reasonable price on uh you know any of your used book sites, you can stop pesto from turning, right? First of all, use the correct nut, right? So if you use a walnut, as delicious as I think walnuts are, they will cause your basil to oxidize at like you know, four times the rate as a pignoli will. Okay. So it's like the nut makes a difference that you use, but you can also blanch it as a way to, and also obviously when you're folding the pesto into the pasta and heating it with the hot pasta, you you're assuming that's what you're doing, and not one of these kind of pesto abominations that people make nowadays.
+
+[14:22] But the uh when you do that, like that also will do. However, he notes in his tasting that when you blanch the herb, and everyone knows this, you lose some of the high notes, right? Now maybe those high notes are tamped down by the freezing anyway, right? So my curiosity is that I imagine the color's gonna be a color difference in brightness for two reasons. One, you're not gonna leach the colors in because it's blending when it's frozen and not when it's wet, so there's gonna be less color leaching.
+
+[14:47] But I I also wonder if there is more. That's what I would guess. However, if the flavor transfer and color transfer is not as high because it's not as pulverized in as it would be if you blended it, blanched it and blend it, that might be overridden. The fact that a lot of the flavor is still locked up inside of the leaf particles. Does that make sense?
+
+[15:18] So regarding what I've just asked you, what do you what do you think? Okay, I think I think the ninja is a little bit of flavor. Again, if you do a full process, fully refreeze, and then process a second time to serve the particles of the herbs seem completely, you know, homogenized into the into the substance. Um the flavor seems really good to me. Like I didn't make another standard recipe to directly compare because I just, you know, we had a bunch of basil, so I made some basil gelato.
+
+[16:00] The color is gotta do that side by side claim. Gotta do that side by side. I do have photos of the original. Doesn't count. Obviously.
+
+[16:10] Doesn't count. Um visually the ninja technique gets a little dimmer darker, but it's still a very pleasant color. And honestly, it looks like a really good pistachio. Well, aside from our uh not your, but our uh Department of Health now, you know a good way to get color into that sucker is drop a couple drops of food coloring and bam, it gets bright and green. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[16:38] Yep. Yeah, I have a question. I have really good questions. All right. Not related to gelato.
+
+[16:44] Is this real question? Or or a makeup question. No, it's real. Okay, okay. No, it's real.
+
+[16:49] It's real from me. So because we've all opened places and we've all closed places. So what if you had closed more than you'd opened? That would be amazing. Well, yeah, anyway, okay.
+
+[17:02] Are there telltale signs in the first month, you think? When you open a place that this place is probably gonna close. Sure. Is there a guy named Dave Arnold involved? I'm just kidding.
+
+[17:21] I'm just kidding. I'm curious. I'm serious. Uh you know, but the here here's why there are plenty of places that should close that don't. So it's hard to say, right?
+
+[17:31] So like I there's plenty of places that are quote unquote mon they're monetarily successful, and from the outside they're successful, and you know on the inside that they're just being held together by like the gravity of hatred. You know what I mean? And so um and they don't necessarily close. Uh you know, and maybe they get better over time. Although, like once once an entity is operational, it is very hard to change its culture because there's just no time and there's no will to do so typically.
+
+[18:07] So what do you what I mean, like, hmm? What do you think? Someone is saying in the Discord first month menu overhaul for sure. Josh Seaberg. Well, I'll give you the I'll I'll give you the the flip to that.
+
+[18:20] Sambar. Dave Chang opens Sambar, thinks he's gonna be selling fast food versions of like Korean burritos with shredded, you know, pork pork butt. And because you know, at that time everyone was cashing in on trying to cash in on something like that. He had had huge success with noodle bar, you know, kind of like uh, you know, doing doing that, and nobody bought it. And so he completely revamped the menu, did a late night menu, opened it up, changed the concept, and blam o you know what I mean?
+
+[18:53] Like he became hugely successful uh off basis of I think some and noodle, right? Um everything else kind of came after the book, all that, etc. That's also the exception to the rule, I think. Like that's I think that's rarer. Well, a f a first month menu overhaul means you did something wrong.
+
+[19:12] Yeah, right. But it doesn't mean that you can't fix it, right? Also depends on why you overhauled it, right? I mean, I think when you like another bad sign is when you here's something that I think is disastrous. When you spend so much money on pre-opening, and and the money partners want their ROI fast, and so like nothing gets funded as it's operating.
+
+[19:39] And so you get into this thing where you've spent all this money, but it's still not quite right, and then the taps close off, and then all of the people who need to make money that aren't the money people don't get paid, and then everybody wants to hightail it out. That you know what that's a recipe for? That's a recipe for the money partner shutting it down, dumping all of the losses into the old uh uh entity and then reopening a new restaurant that makes money that doesn't have any of the debt and writing it all off on their taxes. That's what that's a recipe for. Not saying that from experience, maybe.
+
+[20:13] The other thing is what's what's easier to fix? A bad back of house or a bad front of house? Oh wow, that's a great question. I think it depends on how complicated your menu is, right? And like how much how much is the bat how much is the is is that is your your head chef a name, right?
+
+[20:34] Like, in other words, are they are they do they have a say? Do they have an ownership stake? If if they have an ownership stake, if it's a chef-driven restaurant, then you're pretty hosed, right? Unless they're running, unless they're trying to get they're doing the push to change the back of house, but like what a nightmare, right? No one's willing to shut down for two weeks, figure out what the hell's going on.
+
+[20:57] You know what I mean? Front of house is front of house is also equally, I don't know. What do you think, Stas? You've done this a bunch of times. I think I I they're equally hard.
+
+[21:13] Um, but yeah, you're right. I think the biggest thing is no one's willing to close, figure it out, and then reopen because of optics and money, right? So yeah. Do you know I don't know. So you know how I'm terrible in meetings, Nastasia, like just the worst.
+
+[21:29] Yeah. Yeah. But one of the things that I'm the worst at, and I think it's getting back to your question, is everyone's like, why is why is he so hung up on this like stupid point that seems like minutiae when we're all just doing big picture talks? And I'm like, well, because I know for a fact that if we don't see eye to eye on some of this little stuff right now, everything will be a nightmare later. Like everything will be a nightmare later.
+
+[21:58] You know what I mean? And it's always like, oh, we'll figure that. It's like it's it's like it's like, you know, when it's nowadays you actually can fix it all in post. I take it back. Nowadays you can just make a crappy video and fix it in post because AI will do it for you.
+
+[22:09] But until such time as AI can fix your back of house in front of house for you, if if the money partner or like you e when you walk in and they're like, oh, it it'll be fine. You know, you're the chef. It's gonna be great. You're gonna enjoy it, we're gonna we're gonna treat you well, blah, blah, blah. We're not gonna ride over you, we're not gonna bla blah unless everything's like set up, and that's why you need to get into the minutiae, there's always gonna be a disconnect between the people doing the work and the people supplying the money.
+
+[22:34] And if there it when there is that disconnect, I mean, isn't that a recipe for disaster? Don't you always see that stuff? The people who have the money end up in the real world having the power. No matter what the contract says, the people who have the money and can keep the taps flowing until the sucker is self-sufficient, and the ones who have the lawyers and who did the l lawyering and got everything set up, they in the end have the power. And so any understanding you have with them is worthless unless you're willing to enforce it.
+
+[23:02] And when does that ever happen, Stas? You know what I'm saying? So I think getting I think the only time that's ever happened is with 11 Madison Park, right? Because the money people were like, all right, fine, we trust you too. That was the only time.
+
+[23:15] I think. Yeah. Well, I get and well, I mean the new money people, the people who bought it from Danny Meyer or the original. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[23:21] No. Yeah. Back on meat, by the way. Levis and meaty meat park. Yeah.
+
+[23:28] Back on the meat. Yeah. Um I think also if the owners aren't w willing to like think of any change at this point and want to just keep like forging ahead, hoping and thinking it's gonna work. I think that's also a red flag. Just kind of like cutting off the taps and not willing to change and just really hoping that the concept works out.
+
+[23:48] I worked at a place that did that, and it was just so stupid they weren't willing to like reinvest into like the small changes and little things like that, and we're just so stubborn about it, and it was exactly what everyone predicted. Yeah. Or like, or like the other one is like people, I see this constantly, like back at the culinary school too, Stas, right? Not just restaurants, but people hiring folks and then not expect not respecting their expertise. Like, you know, you hire someone, you don't respect their expertise.
+
+[24:15] Why did you hire me? You're just burning a money hole because I'm not happy with what you're doing now, and you're not happy with what I'm doing. This is a waste. You know what I mean? So, you know, chef shouldn't think that they know everything about every aspect of of you know a larger operation.
+
+[24:30] Money person shouldn't expect that they know everything about what the chef does or what, you know, vice versa. You know, no respect for each other's skills, you know. Anyway, anyway. I don't know. That's also a recipe.
+
+[24:42] But what about like what are some telltales if you when you walk in? So like menu changes external, right? I have I have mine. I think it's uh when you see like different specials running like constantly after they've opened, like different, like look at this, you know, new weird thing, like that is uh I remember doing that with my restaurant. Right.
+
+[25:02] But what if what if it's an old school Italian family place where it's all about having specials every day though? So you're not saying not that, not those. Like gimmicky, weird, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[25:15] But so not, but like some places, right? That's a sign of success, like the McRib. But you're saying like when you're using the special to try something out because what you currently have just ain't doing it for you. You mean that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[25:28] Yeah. Yeah. What about what about like uh when the money partner is like, why don't you just make a burger? And they won't make the burger and then they finally make the burger. I mean, John, you're giving me the you're giving me the not.
+
+[25:47] Oh, geez, man. You know what? It's like what's hilarious is is that I feel almost like uh sometimes like an actor in a play. Don't you feel this way, Stas? Like when you're about to have a conversation that you know has been had by by a million people before you about exactly this in a restaurant, you know what I mean?
+
+[26:06] When when you're like, oh no, he's gonna come in and ask me to make a burger. And like he comes in and you're like, uh and then like you know why you can't ask X, Y, or you know what the story is, right? But you can't somehow get out of it. And so now you have to play the part of the human that has to argue against this thing that you don't care about at all. You know what I mean?
+
+[26:29] Oh my God, I hate it so much. It's like you know what I mean? Oh man. God's been getting so much press in the New York Times and other things lately, like the Chef Burger just stopped reading publications. God.
+
+[26:46] Oh man. Um what's not a sign that you're gonna fail is if if you're just like uh an Instagram hound and all of your stuff, that's a sign that you're gonna make money. You know what I mean? Like, I wish I was better at that crap. In terms of I wish I by better at it, I mean I wish I cared about it.
+
+[27:05] I should care about it because it makes money. It's so stupid to not care about things or to poo-poo things that make money. It's just I can't. And Stasi, you're like this too. You can't be bothered.
+
+[27:15] We need to hire people that are good at that, but we never have enough money to go and long term hire people who are good at it. You know what I'm saying? But it really does make a difference. Yeah, but I also think there's like a lot of really cool famous people who don't have who have zero social media, right? Yeah, but they're famous.
+
+[27:35] Who became famous in the last five years that has zero socials. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like it's like, you know, if you got it, you know, do what you want.
+
+[27:54] You know what I mean? Whatever. But I'm saying, like, I just wish that I wish that I had been given the social gene to be want to put, you know, put stuff out there. Cause I think it does make I think it does make a big difference. There's a place that opened nearby temperance, salt tanks.
+
+[28:11] I don't know if anyone's heard of it, but the salt salt tanks. Hank or tank? Hank H. It's a fella named Hank, and he's a salty dude. Uh I guess so.
+
+[28:14] Okay. But apparently he has a big TikTok presence. I have no idea who he is. But he opened up this uh French dip place uh on Bleecker Street. Unreal lines, like absolutely crazy.
+
+[28:35] All he serves is French dip sandwiches, drinks, and potato sticks. That's it. Potato sticks. The tiny things? Yeah, like the little matchstick things.
+
+[28:43] Oh Jesus. Yeah. So I'm gonna ask you this. Are you supposed to put them on the sandwich? He serves them on the side.
+
+[28:48] Uh-huh. I don't know. Stas, who's got the famous French dip in it. That's an LA thing anyway. So who's the what's the good one?
+
+[28:55] Felipe. Yeah. And it's and you like it, it's good. I think they're closing. Yeah.
+
+[29:00] I mean, I think it's good. Are they? Someone's closing. Oh, yes, the other one. Yeah.
+
+[29:05] But so this guy's opening like an LA style. I mean, a French dip is an LA thing, I'm pretty sure. It's on baguette with caramelized red onions, like a and horseradish mayo. Like it's it's pretty standard. Um, but the lines are absolutely ridiculous.
+
+[29:24] He sells out every single day. Um, line wraps around the block. I mean, it is yeah, it's just something else, but it's all I think it's all because he had the social media influence to to back it up. I don't think anyone God bless him. Yeah, no, but yeah, it's uh yeah, it's crazy.
+
+[29:40] Yeah. It's only open like Thursday through Saturday or something like that, too, now and it's just okay. Here's an old time is it good? Do you like it? No negatives, yeah.
+
+[29:49] I was listening it was good. I was hoping for better given like the blow-up around it. All right, here's this it wasn't dry, it was well put together. Because Hillstones makes a really good friend tip. Yeah?
+
+[30:01] Yeah. Very good. Hey, here's this. Must be nice. Remember that?
+
+[29:59] That's what every chef used to say all the time. Must be nice. Oh, not getting into work until 9 a.m. must be nice. Halfway.
+
+[30:12] Leaving before midnight must be nice. Half day. That's what everyone used to say back then. Oh my god, what a toxic toxic. Oh, so bad.
+
+[30:19] Yeah. But no, I mean it's just that just goes to show like how well that concept is working that it can bankroll whatever he's doing for so few days a week on Bleecker Street. Yeah, nice. Yeah, no, like good for him. Yeah.
+
+[30:32] Yeah. It's uh crazy. Social media wild things. Must be nice. Aye.
+
+[30:43] Okay. So I think uh people who listen on the Patreon, why don't you send what you think or in the Discord and we can talk about this again? Because uh, Stas, I think this is a multi, this game multi-week conversation, like cooking issues, like red flag alerts for uh remember who used to do that? Which website? It was always so mean, but they would have like a death watch on restaurants.
+
+[31:05] It was so mean. People have put like energy and thought into whatever they're doing. One of the websites used to have a death watch. Oh my god, so terrible, so awful. So we're not gonna do that, but we can talk about things to avoid that we have done.
+
+[31:28] Uh anyway, it almost always starts with the partners. The partners, there's always some poison pill amongst the partners in the open opening staff, and also, and and you know that what about this one, Stas? Not about things opening. Like, but what about the fact that whenever you open a place, your opening sta oh she's she had to leave? No.
+
+[31:52] All right. Well, when she gets back, when you open a place, John, you'll know this. The you opening staff, you burn them out. No matter what, you you burn them out because they're they're always coming on before you open. And so especially the front of house isn't making as much money.
+
+[32:10] You're begrudging them the money that you're already paying them. You have to get the thing going. The systems are never in place when you open. It's never smooth. And so consequently, they help build the culture of the restaurant in both front and back of house.
+
+[32:25] So the opening staff does. And therefore, they feel some sense of ownership over the program, which by the way, and owners will get mad at me, they should, right? Because in fact they did help. But the problem there is is that once they feel that sense of ownership, then once the restaurant is like six months, eight months, one year in, typically they maintain that sense of ownership, and that's when owners want to claw that thing back. That's when owners want that opening staff to act like Johnny come lately staff.
+
+[32:58] And so I think there's a lot of times problems there. What do you think, John? Yeah, no, I agree with that. Um that opening staff is willing to just put up they I mean they were willing to put up with so much more during the opening, but you know, I think that's why I agree with you that you know they get some kind of ownership and say and stuff, you know, in how think how operations should get done. Right.
+
+[33:21] But there's always a point at which the actual owners claw back any sense of any sense of, and I don't mean ownership in a monetary sense, but just ownership over the way things work from the opening staff. Yeah. And it's always kind of sad to me. It is. I mean, I understand it all.
+
+[33:40] I'm not saying that there's I'm not saying that, you know, one of them is evil or one of them is presumptuous or any anything. I'm just saying it's always kind of sad because I don't really see a way around it. No, there is no ownership structure where the owners can do all of the work and fully form a program without input from people who are on staff. And you wouldn't want to hire anyone that didn't treat the place as though they were personally invested in it. Right.
+
+[34:08] So then you then that the fact that later on they somehow get penalized for having taken a personal investment in it is to me sad. I don't know a way around it. But you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, no, there's there isn't a way around it.
+
+[34:21] Unfortunately, it's just uh another part of working in this industry. Yeah. I don't know. Another terrible part. Let's like like my other favorite is I still don't understand how all the people in this industry who are front of house can deal with not knowing how much money they're gonna make.
+
+[34:41] You know what I mean? Like it's like it's such a weird system that people live so inconsistently. You know, it's not like the landlord's like, oh, people didn't come to the restaurant this week, so I won't charge you rent. You know what I mean? It's like it doesn't work that way.
+
+[34:58] Yeah. But I don't see any alternative. I don't I don't know what the alternative would be. It's just not I mean, our industry, there's I love the people. I love food.
+
+[35:12] Yeah. But the actual mechanics of our industry, I don't like. Yeah. I mean, the summer I feel like has made it really apparent to I don't know how you guys have been, but we've been slow. I mean, everyone in our neighborhood's been slow.
+
+[35:24] Yeah. Um except salty. Yeah, except salt tanks. Um yeah, but yeah, no, a bunch of people in the neighborhood have cut the dropped their lunch service for now at least. Um place closed down.
+
+[35:37] Yeah, it's just uh profit margins are types. I don't know. I don't know. Sorry. Sorry to get sorry to get such a such a be such a bilmer.
+
+[35:46] Here's a question that was answered though. Dr. Smokehouse wrote in Enjoy the discussion with Edwards Meats. You alluded to improvements with aging pork, but I do not believe you gave definitive opinions on how beneficial it actually is. Personally, I've not found it to make that much of a difference in fresh preparations, but I've only taken it out of for two weeks of aging.
+
+[36:02] I will be processing a 500-pound 18-month-old pig next month, primarily for charcuterie. And so I was wondering uh if I should try some dry aging. Well, if you're doing charcuterie, you're gonna be aging it on salt. So I don't know how much of a difference it would make to age it before you make charcuterie out of it, right? Well, I think you meant like takes some pieces and not make charcuterie.
+
+[36:25] Like if he's breaking down a whole pig, he may not be curing the like the loin or the chug. Cured loin is delicious. Yeah, baby. Yeah. Um response from Edward.
+
+[36:39] Uh so uh we, you know, Quinn asked him, send him the question. Here's what he said dry aging pork. Um, this is not how he sounds. Dry aging pork, when done in proper conditions and for long enough time, changes the texture profile and the flavor profile. Textually, the meat becomes more tender and refined, almost smoother and less grainy and fibrous.
+
+[36:57] The flavor is very profound. It won't have the earthy dry age fun funk akin to beef. It will have a more robust pork flavor. Think across between charcuterie, so cured, and bacon without the smoke. The meat will also have an almost sweet flavor, and the fat will become very tender as if the fat has been cooked low and slow and will have a slight nutty aroma and flavor profile as well.
+
+[37:18] Dry aging pork really needs to be passed 30 days, so at least twice as long uh as you have tried Dr. Smokehouse. So dry aging pork really needs to be passed 30 days with the right environment to have a meaningful full change. We have found 45 days to be optimal in our environment. Typically, anything past 14 days can become harder to control in the presence of spoilage occurring.
+
+[37:41] So if you can't if you can't really tweak down your environment to prevent any chance of spoilage, he's saying that's when that's when the S hits the F, as they say. So that's what uh that's what Everett says in response. Done, right? Good. Answered.
+
+[37:55] All right. Covered and smothered. I I guess I I concur, because we overcooked the hell out of some uh I think eight weeks aged one, and it kind of didn't matter. Well, what is it? Well, why would you overcook anything ever?
+
+[38:11] Well, it was not on purpose. Oh, I see. We we did some of the chops in the pizza. Hmm. I mean, that's a good way to finish them if you've already low temped them.
+
+[38:24] I know, but they were so thin, I worried about doing a a two stage. Why? Why would it be thinness isn't ever going to affect your two stage? You gotta do it complete for insurance. Just take it all the way down.
+
+[38:36] Like do your do your low temp, pull it, let it sit on the counter for an hour. Yeah, yeah. Let it come completely to room temperature. And then, you know, hello? How many years?
+
+[38:44] Sous-vie for insurance. You do the inside perfect, and then all you gotta do is get the outside, make sure it's warm enough, have someone with a cake tester, you know, put it against their uh freaking uh lip. I'm a big believer in the cake tester, by the way. Me too. Yeah, cake testers.
+
+[39:03] It's great. Never use it on a cake. Ain't never used it on a cake. You know what I mean? Like, I'll shove that cake tester into anything, and very little on your body.
+
+[39:14] My nothing on my body is physically sensitive except for like right there on my lip, so I can bah shove it all the way in. You can test it along different areas of the cake tester, leave it in there for a couple seconds, cake tester. They're magnetic. You can stick a magnet on your oven and then put and and put the cake tester. I have them magnetized all stuck all over my range.
+
+[39:34] Cake test. I'll tell you this. When you're reheating a frozen pancake, let's say, right? And you have it in your A Nova steam oven at 300 degrees uh with 50 Fahrenheit with 50% steam, right? How are you gonna know if the inside of that pancake is still cold, especially where the blueberries were?
+
+[39:51] I'll tell you how. Cake tester. Cake tester on cake. It's not cake, it's a pancake. Pancake, not cake.
+
+[39:58] Pancake. Not cake. Why why have you never used it on a cake? Yeah, you just know. First of all, I don't trust a cake tester on cake.
+
+[40:06] I trust a toothpick on cake. I don't think a cake tester actually has the grip to accurately test a cake. Fair. Toothpick, yes. Got it.
+
+[40:16] You know what I mean? Yeah. I don't know. Also, I say, you know, whatever. Yeah, no, whatever.
+
+[40:22] Yeah, it's fine. Uh the cakes. Like, like are do you when you guys cook cakes, to the extent that any of you cook cakes? Are you cooking cakes that are typically dry like cooked all the way through dry or the ones where you have to pull them a little rumbly? I do mainly d dry cooked cakes.
+
+[40:39] Like they're not, there's no shake or lake to them at all. They're like cake, old style cakes. Yeah. Or like angel food cakes. I love an angel food cake.
+
+[40:47] When you pull it just after it, just after it's totally set. So it's not like it's not under at all, because then it can get kind of wet, but it's still like moist. It hasn't become like a dry sponge yet. When you pull out that angel food cake at that perfect time. Did I ever say on air, I well, like uh when I started recently when I whip the egg whites, instead of adding sugar, I add jelly.
+
+[41:13] Yeah, you did say that. Oh, it's so good. Yeah. Oh my god, so good. Like just like beat the jelly in instead of so typically when I don't know if forever hasn't made an angel food cake here before, typically you're taking uh flour and uh like cake flour and uh powdered sugar, typically, because you want this to be extremely fine.
+
+[41:37] Uh and then I put my salt into my egg whites. I don't really bother with cream of tartar, but you can. And when you whip it, then you usually add, you know, to 10 egg whites, about a cup of gr which is about 200, I think, grams of granulated sugar. And it whips in and that provides the dense structure of the egg whites as opposed to just whipping them plain. But you can just use jelly.
+
+[42:00] Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh angel cake. Uh either like melt the jelly and stream it in, or just throw it in. Yeah.
+
+[42:11] Throw it in. Boom. Don't life doesn't need to be hard all the time. You know, you know what I mean? Like uh age food cake, I love it.
+
+[42:20] I used to make it. Do you think melted hot jelly would work well for like an alternate Italian meringue? Uh well, pectin isn't right super thermo-reversible, so I don't know how liquid it's gonna. I mean, it is, but it is, but I don't know how liquid it'll get. So I don't know.
+
+[42:42] I ain't never done it. I ain't never done it. I have used very I've used like um like really uh high solids strawberry juice cordial to do it. You know what it was? Good.
+
+[43:01] Real good. Delicious. Like, yeah, low, low temp, low temp vac down, so it didn't taste that cooked. Good. Good.
+
+[43:08] Um delicious. I bet you I bet you you could do it with unsweetened cranberry juice. So like my cranberry cordial, I boil down the cranberry juice until it is um, I boil it down until it is 6% acidity and 50 breaks once you add the sugar to it. I don't have the math on top of my head, but imagine if you added even more sugar to it so that but it's still you did a lot of boiling, so there was a lot of cranberry in a very small amount of liquid. I bet you could do that.
+
+[43:43] Meringue it up. Bet you'd be good and easy without having to buy a centrifuge. Although you should go buy a centrifuge for sure. For sure. Obviously.
+
+[43:52] Um uh Rob has hobbies, wants to know Yuzu juice without access to fresh yuzu. Is there any combination of other juices and or acids that can get you close? Is the room temp bottle stuff a worthy substitute, or is there something better? I mean, having only several times in my life had access to like a whole boat ton of fresh Yuzu. No.
+
+[44:13] Like I've never had anything that's kind of close to it. Like the best one that we used to do that we used to get, remember this, John. I don't know if you ever sourced it. It came in a like uh like a very like a mix between khaki and green colored tall milk carton, and it came frozen. And it wasn't pasteurized, it wasn't bottled, it was ink cartonized and frozen.
+
+[44:39] And that was the best of the ones that we used to use. But you know, fresh yuzu is like so hard. I would say if you buy not the crappy one, but try to get that frozen one and make a cordial out of it. And then that cordial isn't gonna taste like fresh yuzu, but it's gonna taste like Yuzu Cordial and be pretty good. But man, fresh juzu.
+
+[45:03] I wonder if there'd be a benefit. I mean, Dercy O'Neal has done a lot of videos about uh microemulsions recently. I wonder if there'd be any benefit from some combination of fresh citrus juice, like a lemon lime combination, and then like a little bit of a like a yuzu essential oil um essence or emulsion, like just a little bit. I mean, maybe. I don't know, but like most of those things to me tastes not.
+
+[45:38] I mean, I've never I've never actually tried to purchase like Yuzu oil, uh but I, you know, like a lot of those things don't taste identical to me to the actual fresh thing. But you know, if they made an oil, yeah, I mean, you could just use uh Arabic and Xantha. I mean, if you have a rotor stator homogenizer or an ultrasonic homogenizer, which I used to have until the rats ate it, uh field mice, field mice. Um, you know, that's kind of one of the very few good things that they do, but I don't really actually to be honest with these uh ultrasounds and the rotor staters because I've used them and I was able to make stable emulsions because you can get the particle size and theoretically, theoretically, I say the flavor is going to be different because the emulsion size is different, right? In reality, I didn't really notice it to be the case, and that's why I stopped using them like 20 years ago.
+
+[46:32] 20? Nah, 50 16 years ago, right? So like I got them, I was able to do a bunch of stuff. At that time, most of those homogenizers were many thousands of dollars. So my choice was do I tell chefs that what they should do is save up their hard-earned cash and put 2,000 bucks or whatever it was at the time into an ultrasonic homogenizer or a decent rotor stator homogenizer.
+
+[46:54] I was like, is that what you should do? Or should you invest five dollars and a little bit of time into the knowledge of emulsification agents and stabilizing agents so that you didn't need to get the particle size of the oil, the you know, the the oil uh droplets so small that they formed a stable emulsion as though you were making a milk out of it. And my decision was clearly the latter. That like I didn't see anything so important about the size of the emulsion size for 99% of the culinary work that meant that I would rather invest my money there than in a decent knowledge of hydrocolloids and emulsifiers. But whatever.
+
+[47:34] Now, like times have changed and people have probably done a lot of work on it, you know. So who knows? Who knows? Um, but yeah, you could try that. You can emulsify some oil in.
+
+[47:43] Uh, but you know, I don't remember. I've never looked at it because I've never tested it. I'll I'll try to look up uh what the acid base of Yuzu is. I'm gonna guess it's pretty close to pretty close to lime. I'll look it up.
+
+[48:00] They're delicious. So it's fresh sudach. Delicious. Um, and if you have access to fresh peel, then you have access to fresh yuzu. So that's not a way to help you out.
+
+[48:10] Although you could, let's say you could buy a couple of fresh Yuzu, right? Then you could ju, there's not much juice in a Yuzu anyway, period, right? So if you juice the Yuzu, but you do the peel first, you could probably augment a different citrus juice with an oleo of the peel, right? Yep. Yeah, and then uh have a little sugar in it, but there you go.
+
+[48:34] Uh Michelle from Nashville says, what's the wisdom on how long your water line can run in a carbonation system? I know it should be as short as possible from the cold plate to the tap. Yeah, it should. But how about from the carbonator to the cold plate? It can be long.
+
+[48:51] In fact, uh, first of all, remember you should run through two things of your cold plate, but a longer line in general means that you have a more gradual pressure drop as it goes from the high pressure, which is the the carbonator, which is gonna be running, I hope, at about 110 PSI, and the world, which runs at 15 psi, well, not even because it's 110 PSI gauge. So at zero Psi gauge when it comes out, right? So a a short line is going to cause a lot more foaming. So in general, there's no, there's not a I mean, like I I wouldn't run it down the block, you know what I mean? But I I would say that um you're gonna be able to get uh you're not gonna restrict your flow too much when you're pushing at a hundred and something Psi out of a carbonator.
+
+[49:39] So longer lines to me are usually in fact advantageous and not a disadvantage. But you know, don't run it infinity, you know what I mean? And keep those lines from your tap to your cold plate as short as possible. I mean the best way is a chilled line from the from the cold plate to to the tap and a chilled tap, but you know, fancy. You know what I mean?
+
+[50:04] Uh okay, from Kev. Uh is this Kev, is this Kev from Noma? I don't know. Oh, hey. Uh calcium is used in many pickles to form the texture of the pickles so that it stays crisp even after pasturation.
+
+[50:18] Mugaritz used calcium hydroxide to set the vegetables before cooking them in the oven so that the inside is a texture of a puree while the outside retains the shape. Yeah, we used to do that. We used to do that all the time. That was a thing, you know, that was we do it with carrots, do it with uh we used to do it with bananas. We used to do a banana.
+
+[50:35] We used to soak the outside of bananas. Like we would put bananas in a calcium uh hydroxide uh, you know, cowl, right? We put put in a bag. We would use the red, the red pickling lime from Thailand, and then uh put it in the bag, and we we hit it. We sometimes we do it without the vacuum, but light vacuum firm up the outside.
+
+[50:57] And then you could take them in a pan and even ripe bananas, you could saute the crap out of them. Just like bah bah bah. Like imagine like, you know how like when you're when you're cooking like a banana and you've like cut the banana and you're trying to be real careful not to shatter the banana as you cut it, because even just cutting the banana is gonna break the ends off, right? And then you're like, eh, eh, and you put the you put the sugar and the and the butter in the pan and you lay the bananas down really gently when the butter melts, and then you sit there and you pray that like you get a nice crisp coating on the bottom of that banana, and that you gently turn them out onto the plate so that you have a really nice looking like banana with that cook crispy face on it. And you know, and you always start with underripe bananas so you don't have to deal with it.
+
+[51:45] So that's why you have to jack it with sugar because it's not freaking sweet enough, and you have to put cinnamon on all those other things. Because, well, when we did it with the calcium, we would like put them in the pan, we're like boom, like sitting there like shimmying the pan around, and they wouldn't do anything. And it was amazing. I loved it. Amazing.
+
+[52:02] Uh I digress. Uh, my standing knowledge is that the calcium and calcium hydroxide slash calcium chloride says calcium lactate gluconate, which is what I primarily use, reacts with the pectin and the vegetable fruit, firming up the texture. That is correct. My question is whether there exists you can also use an enzyme that in presence of calcium called pectin methylesterase. Uh novo shape was what it used to be called.
+
+[52:26] I don't know what they call it now, because they've changed all the name of it, and that confirm the hell that if you inject that in, that gives you that like maris maraschino cherry, that like fake cocktail cherry, like chewy all the way through. And by the way, if you leave it too long in a calcium solution, it can be off-putting. So we I used to, I did a test with because I used to worry about cucumber. So I used to do this thing where I would inject gin and vermouth into cucumbers and then put like salt and like some herbs on the outside, making like a little solid gin cucumber thing, right? Because for those of you that don't know, early on when people started playing with vacuum machines in like the early 2000s, like as soon as we discovered that when you try to vacuum down vegetables, they get they look like pieces of jewelry because all of the air pores are either compressed in compression or injected with fluid if you do it in liquid, like everyone's like, oh my God, this looks amazing.
+
+[53:18] I love this. And so, like, we were doing it. And so, like, I was like, well, I can inject alcohol into this, and then it's like a little solid cocktail. So that was like one of my early shticks was injecting cucumbers with gin and vermouth and sugar. Uh so the problem with it though is is that uh the the liquid that you're injecting into the cucumber is not isotonic with the cucumber.
+
+[53:40] And so what happens is over time, the cucumber becomes floppy because the water is leached out of the cucumber cells themselves into the liquor that's in the pores and makes them floppy, the same way as if you were putting them into salt water and they would get floppy, right? So to try to counteract that, I jacked them with calcium. But the problem is that if you store them too long cucumbers in the calcium, it's getting weird. It does get weird. Anyway, back to the question.
+
+[54:10] Um, my question is whether there exists information on how you can how often you can reuse the same calcium lactate gluconate bath or setting pectin. If I soak, let's say, one kilogram of pumpkin chunks in five liters of 1% uh solution for 15 minutes, can I put another one kilogram into the same bath for the same amount of time and expect the same result? Is there a diminishing effectiveness of that solution? You know, that's a good question. First of all, remember calcium lactate gluconate is a relatively heavy molecule for the amount of calcium it has, right?
+
+[54:41] And it's also relatively it's its main benefit is it doesn't taste nasty the way calcium uh chloride does, right? I don't know. I don't think that you're actually taking that much calcium out of it. But I also don't know, I don't know of an easy way to test the residual calcium. See, the nice thing about calcium uh hydroxide, cal, or Thai pickling lime, either the white or the red one, is that calcium hydroxide is so insoluble in water that uh you just add infinite excess of calcium to it.
+
+[55:27] And then when you add your stuff, as it gets depleted, it will just resusc, it'll just re-add more calcium, right? So it's basically always that saturation. So you can use those baths like again and again and again and again and again. So if you can deal with, or if you don't mind the taste of calcium hydroxide, it's automatically gonna be perfect. Now, I don't know what the saturation of calcium lactate gluconate is, but would it taste bad if you did a shorter soak in a much higher strength solution?
+
+[56:01] And that way, if you just kept it saturated, well, then you're good. Just keep adding stuff to it and it's never gonna go bad. But I don't know if this answers your question. But that's what we used to do. Right?
+
+[56:10] All right. Uh do you think there would be any like density or conductivity that you could like easily measure for calcium lactate glucane solution? I don't know because I don't know what it's being replaced with. It's not uptaking the lactate part, right? So I don't uh, you know, I wouldn't know.
+
+[56:29] I mean, look, if this is what I did for a living and I had the right equipment, probably I just I just don't know. Yeah. Uh Dave Kleiman says we're moving from Thailand to Markham, which we think is Ontario. And I want to possibly take my successful charcuterie uh slash salami hobby into a wholesale business there. Anecdotally, all the people I've had who taste my wares say that there's currently uh nothing that is as good as the one I make, although 50 to 75 people isn't really scientific.
+
+[56:55] I'd like to take some classes on food safety and get certified and licensed. There's a school around here that has a culinary program, but I don't know if they're teaching real culinary arts or how to assemble highly processed foods. Well, there's get a little edge to your voice there, Dave. Uh maybe there are better online resources. How do you recommend I get the education I need to do it right?
+
+[57:12] If you're gonna start a business, I would go to one of the professional short courses on charcuterie in the United States, but relatively northern, so not that far away. Iowa has or used to have the short course of note on meat processing. And so what that does, aside from anything else, is it is it lets you know what you need. And it's I think it's like four or five days or something like that. It lets you it assumes that you already know how to cut up and salt meat and and like, but it tells you how to make recipes in large batches, how to deal with uh with uh certifications and how to set up an act, how an actual processing plant is set up.
+
+[57:48] So it's not meant to teach you the ABCs of what's going on, it's meant to teach you, take you from like hobby to business. So I would look at something like that. Uh and if you're gonna do it for business, it's worth going and investing the week or so, whatever. Um look into HAC-up plans too, obviously. Yeah, I'm sure that that's part of it.
+
+[58:05] Mathman, I'll wait to I'll wait till we have a full house. Mathman wants to uh keep uh their family fed while they have uh a one-year-old and they need some ideas for quick things. Well we'll wait till we have a full house back and do that and we have more time. Bruce J says I managed to find a used anchor sum, which is the mixer that I use, Swedish, uh at a great price. It was given to me by a lady one pine one and a half years ago.
+
+[58:25] She already has one. I'm reasonably certain um that it's been treated well. It has an ice cream attachment, so I made ice cream. Also, I love the arson, but I've never used the ice cream attachment. After hand cleaning, I left the bowl upside down on the drain rack, and when I came back, there was a little bit of blue ice uh leaking from the seam, you know, the uh the gel.
+
+[58:40] Should I just super glue the seams or should I be cracking it open to put more ice pack filling in? Since this was used, I obviously don't have a warranty. Thanks for all your help. Here's what I'm gonna say. I don't know how that thing is put together or sealed, but I'm very leery of trying to seal anything like that with an external application.
+
+[58:56] It might have a ring on the inside, like a like a like an O-ring that's it can be fixed if it can be unscrewed normally. But here's what I'm gonna am gonna say. And carcerum is a great company. If you reach out to them, even if you don't have it and be like, it like even if you didn't buy it directly from them, and you're like, I have this ice cream attachment, it's leaking. What can I do?
+
+[59:13] I bet you they will hook you up. You know what I mean? Like maybe I don't know if they'll give it to you for free, but I'll bet you they're not gonna leave you hanging because that it's a really really good company. Um Ed Elliott from Berkeley had good success with their flour milling. I'm glad.
+
+[59:28] Uh Thomas H wants to know: is there a way to thicken oil, specifically flavored oils, without making them opaque? Clarity is ideal, and I would like to thicken them to make it easier for plating, even for hot plating. You know what, Thomas? I'll look into it again. I've never had a lot of success.
+
+[59:40] I use mono and diglycerides, which were opaque once they've gelled, obviously, because all gelled fat is opaque. But um they were clear when they were when they were, but you know, I never liked it because I was having to add like 10%. But I'll look, I'm sure there's newer things. You know anything, John, about thickening oils? No.
+
+[59:56] I'll add I'll ask uh Chris next time with the modernist uh pantry people. Uh and Lionel Hutz, sorry, one more Lionel Huts. Uh you were making uh New York style pizza and you were getting a burn ring around the bottom. I wasn't able to get the picture for some reason it didn't go through. But here's what I think is happening.
+
+[1:00:12] Uh as you throw the thing into your pizza oven, you're getting steam on the bottom of your of your pizza and it's lift and going back to pancakes. This happens on pancakes also. When you flip a pancake, right, it's already somewhat set. So what happens is is you get a moisture bubble, like a vapor bubble that's pushing the middle of your thing up. So what I would do when you shove the thing in is either before you do it, stipple the top so that you can get a vent from the center of your pizza up through, or after you throw it in, when it starts to hump up, throw a long offset underneath it, boop, lift it up, boom, the center will fall.
+
+[1:00:45] Once it falls back down, it probably will not make another air bubble. But either dock it before it goes in so that steam can come up a little bit, or do the lift and plop. And that's what I would say. And this has been cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City News Dance Studios. We only got you and me today in the studio, Joe, Joe Hazen. Hey, hey, hey. How you doing?
+
+[0:24] I'm doing well. Good to see you. It's been a couple weeks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been off.
+
+[0:28] I was in Germany, then Harvard. Yeah. Yeah. Been uh been a while, yeah. Wait, you're in Hamburg?
+
+[0:35] No, uh, wasn't although there were some ham well, I guess what do you call someone from the hamburger hamburger? Probably maybe hamburger lady like uh Throbbin Gristle. Oh yeah, yeah. No, but uh no, I hear that's an incredibly uh I it's nice. I I've never been.
+
+[0:49] Neither. Cologne. I was in Cologne. Oh, Cologne, oh, Cologne. Of course.
+
+[0:55] I mean, like I love that much smaller format of the Kolsch to like, you know, some sort of giant moss. The circular like lazy Susan types of uh setups, right? Isn't that how they describe it? I don't know. Some people just hand me glasses.
+
+[1:08] I mean, like I was doing an event for Jaegermeister, and and well, we'll get back to it. We have also we we we got no molecules because Jackie Molecules is flying over the North Pole at this moment on his way back from China. Uh hopefully he has more to tell us about it next week. Uh what he ate over there. Uh but we do have Nastasia the Hammer Lopez.
+
+[1:28] How you doing? Good. Good. In uh Los Angeles, I'm assuming. Yep.
+
+[1:35] Yeah. And holding down the upper left, Quinn, how you doing? I'm good. Yeah. So uh I actually I think I said I was gonna do this beforehand because someone came up to me in Germany and told me they had heard this, but yes, w we recreated the flaming Jaeger that I had uh done uh, you know, back in the day with Nastasia for Jimmy Fallon, the same, and this is gonna come up later, the same uh appearance that somehow Stas booked that uh also got us the free rotovap.
+
+[2:07] So nice, good memories. Must be nice. Um, it was, although, you know what's not nice? Spending like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours flying that rotovap. Am I right, Stas?
+
+[2:20] Yeah. Not fun. No one does that anymore. Mo but I mean, like the the new equipment, everyone anyone's gonna buy a roto vap. Get the equipment, get the controller that lets you walk away from it.
+
+[2:30] Now, let me I'll say this. For those of you who don't know what the hell we're talking about, a rotary evaporator is a vacuum distillation device, right? And unlike the way that chemists use it, where they're evaporating a single solvent, let's say acetone, right? Where you can set a temperature and a vacuum level and walk away from it and just wait for all the acetone to get sucked out, and then you have your dry powder left over, like you know, whenever you're doing your breaking bag, whatever the hell you're doing, right? And uh in in a bar or in a cooking situation, you're you're doing a distillation of alcohol and water, and so the boiling point is constantly changing, right?
+
+[3:08] And so what you used to have to do back in the day was sit there and you know keep adjusting the vacuum level of your system and or the temperature depending on what your control scenario was, so that you could get the optimum taste output, and you'd also have to break off and like dump the product out, sometimes intermediate because you'd be losing aroma out of the out of the vacuum column if you weren't careful. They leaked a lot, and whenever they leaked, you would lose aroma. So there's all these issues to get doing a good job. Uh now most people just didn't do a good job because it was more of a stunt than anything else. But nowadays, if you spend the money, you can have a vacuum controller that will do all that work for you and just keep it at a perfect distillation point because it distills based on measuring the vapor temperature in the condenser.
+
+[3:55] So times have changed, I guess in this case, for the better. But you know, still uh I don't really use them anymore because it's just i it's just too much money. You know what I mean? In terms of labor. Anyway, I digress.
+
+[4:08] Uh what do you guys uh have uh good in this past uh couple of weeks? Anything? What do you guys got? Uh we had uh a slight food-related tragedy. The last chunk of pork uh we were aging uh went too far.
+
+[4:28] Yeah. In what way too far? I got mold on it. Like bad mold? Could you couldn't cut the mold off?
+
+[4:36] I mean, maybe, but it was like a big patch of like white and black. So it's like the pork has gone too far. Is that what happened? So you had to throw it away. How much pork did you lose?
+
+[4:52] Uh we didn't weigh it, but like there was like a chunk of the loin, so like probably like six chumps. Yeah, well, sorry, man. That pig died in vain, dude. You hosed it. You uh you completely lost it.
+
+[5:08] We we got we we still used the rest of it. So all right. Uh what else? Any non-tragedies? Uh being actually cooking relatively simple, giving my dad a little bit of a break.
+
+[5:27] So yeah, we made some nice um zucchini pasta. Wait, was it nice or was it zucchini pasta? Which was it? Was it nice or was it zucchini pasta? It was good.
+
+[5:39] You know that like I detest zucchini. The actual pasta was zucchini. You used a vegetti. Are you really gonna have us start the vegetti situation again? No, no, no.
+
+[5:50] It was pieces of zucchini with pasta. Yeah. All right. Well, how big were these pieces of zucchini? Um we did like sort of batons.
+
+[6:04] I see. And what kind of sauce was it? Okay, it was like tossing around. So you like turn some of the zucchini and cheese into like a little sauce. Wait, so you blended zucchini some of the zucchini was blended.
+
+[6:21] All right, but like no, I'm trying to figure out how greasy it was. Like is it full of grease? Was it oily or not oily? I'm trying to figure out how much oil these zucchini batons absorbed. Um I wouldn't say it was that oily.
+
+[6:37] I just I just don't I just like zucchini bread is fine. Zucchini blossoms, amazing. I just never am like, yeah, you know what I want? Zucchini. I'll say this.
+
+[6:47] They're better than spaghetti squash. But they're like at the very bottom of the non-melon cucribits in my in my mind. Like the very bottom. It's a pretty low bar. Yeah.
+
+[6:59] Better than zucchini squash as well. It's a little bar. I mean spaghetti squash is we first of all, I think a lot of people like it now because they didn't grow up in the 70s. Like they weren't made to pretend like they were having pasta instead of squash. And it's like one of those things like the first it's like the first time someone if you're if you're my age, right?
+
+[7:19] Frozen yogurt all of a sudden became a thing. And people like were like all hyped up that like, you know, ice cream was bad for you somehow frozen yogurt were is better, even though that like that's just lunacy. So like they would try to give you frozen yogurt, and you'd be like, this is not ice cream. If you just said this is the delicious frozen tart yogurt, you'd be like, oh yeah, this is a good product. This tastes good, right?
+
+[7:42] But if someone's telling you it's ice cream, it's not ice cream, you know, go walk off the pier. You know what I mean? But the same with spaghetti squash. I'm sure it could be fine. By the way, for those of you who never had spaghetti squash, it's this squash that shreds in a way that it forms shreds, in the way that asbestos is a mineral that forms fibers.
+
+[8:01] That's you know how I think of it. So you sh you you steam or however you're gonna do the squash, and then you take a fork and you turn it into these like shredded, wet squash things that in the 70s you used to get your bottle of your jar of ragu and used to just take like your ragu spaghetti sauce, you know, marinara style sauce, and you'd toss it with this mass of steamed wet shreds, and you would pretend it's pasta. And so I can't get past my childhood. You know what I mean? And my mom, by the way, fantastic cooks.
+
+[8:38] This is nothing on my mom. This was just a thing people did and pretended was good in the 70s and 80s. So I can't get over it. Stas, we ever we've had this discussion. What do you have any feelings?
+
+[8:48] Did you have any? I know you're younger, but did you have any childhood trauma with spaghetti squash? Not with spaghetti squash, though, with zucchini. My parents would make like weekly this dish that was just zucchini and then manager special chunks of meat with lots of fat on it, tomato sauce. Oh.
+
+[9:08] And it was like all the seeds had fallen out of the sensors of the zucchini. Was it like was it fat? Was it the seeds? Was it you know, just all like what? And we would cry at the table and my dad would be eating my mom.
+
+[9:23] By the way, horrible. Rightly so. You we would cry rightly so. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[9:30] Like I wonder like what is the good application for zucchini? Like, like let me just I'm just toss some stuff out there. You know how like uh I know, I know. When I lived in Italy, yeah. When I lived in Italy, they would core, they would keep the zucchini like whole, cut off both ends, core out the center with like a a knife or something, stuff it with a mixture of beef, pork, you know, uh egg, whatever, bread crumbs, like a meatball inside.
+
+[9:59] Yeah. And then you would slice that thing up and it was like, okay, great. Yeah, you know. Yes. A hundred percent.
+
+[10:06] In fact, you took the words right out of my mind, and I'm glad you tried it, because I was gonna say, you know how the bitter melon dish that you know, like the like like a lot of bitter melon dishes, they'll core the bittermelon and stuff it with like a pork mixture. I was wondering if it would work in zucchini, and you just told me that it is in fact good. So, you know, you get the genius award for cooking for the for the week for in my mind, because that sounds like a great idea. I would eat the hell out of that, most likely. You know what I mean?
+
+[10:30] Yeah, so good. So good. Yeah. And also with a sauce or like dryer? No, they would put like a red sauce on it.
+
+[10:39] Yeah, I can't really remember, but yeah. Really good. Parmesan pop, yeah. Yeah, that's a win. That's a win right there.
+
+[10:44] So there is a decent, there is a decent use. What were you gonna say, Quinn? You're gonna you're still defending your use of it. I I Yeah, because again, you're deeply brown the zucchini. We did a little salt ahead of time and let it drain in like you know in the fridge for a few hours.
+
+[11:06] And a funny thing happened when I was uh eating it. I ate a chunk of very nicely cooked zucchini, and I instantly got this sort of memory of eating a perfectly toasted marshmallow. Flavor and texture was like you're a strange. Yeah, yeah, that's some sort of electrical anomaly in your brain, because marshmallows and zucchini like No, no, Stas, you getting this at all? It was no, it was the trigger of the brown exterior and then like the yielding texture reminded me of that.
+
+[11:59] I don't know, man. I don't know. You're like I don't know what brand of marshmallows you eat, but you know what I mean? I don't know. I don't know.
+
+[12:07] I was gonna say uh here's the other thing, right? Of the things that you eat that are grease sponges, my favorite is eggplant. I think eggplant, I love an eggplant. You know what I mean? I don't want people to think that like I'm against all things that when cooked poorly absorb grease.
+
+[12:26] Because I look I do love eggplant. What about you, Stas? You an eggplant fan. Yeah, and I remember one of the best preparations was Brooks Hedley at Del Posto. Put chocolate, like semi-sweet uh bitter chocolate on it and served it as a dessert.
+
+[12:41] I'm not sure how he did it, but it was so so good. Well, you know, uh I remember not not having it, right? But I'm going on the dessert realm here again. But I remember that the day after we had, you know, whatever the meal was at Giro with your ex Mark, right? He and uh Kevin uh Garcia went out for what they said was the best sushi they ever had and were served as the dessert fruit, some sort of magical eggplant.
+
+[13:11] Do you remember this? Yeah, I do. And we were like, do you have a picture of it? No. Do you have a name for the variety?
+
+[13:17] No. It was the best thing, and you'll never have it. And we're like, oh, thanks. We're working real hard. Why don't you why don't you absorb our hotel room?
+
+[13:24] You know what I mean? Why don't you absorb our like world's greatest hotel room and concierge service? Yeah. Right. All the perks.
+
+[13:32] Yeah, you just take the perks and shaft us out of like the world's greatest eggplant. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. That's not right.
+
+[13:42] You know, meanwhile, like we're working through an earthquake. We're in like an eight billion story building, and it's like flopping back and forth forth like a piece of spaghetti. They're eating God's eggplant and come back and just rub it in our faces. That's not cool. Anyway, I wish I knew I asked an eggplant expert, and she didn't know.
+
+[14:01] I was trying to figure out the variety. No one can figure out what eggplant you could just serve. Because Mark said, and this has to be a lie, that it was just raw sliced eggplant as the sushi dessert fruit. It just doesn't make sense. And I need to try it so bad because something that makes so little sense to me is something I need to have.
+
+[14:23] You know, Sus. He was drinking drinking heavily back then. Yeah. Oh man. So you're saying maybe it was actually just eggs, no plant.
+
+[14:35] Yeah. It was actually tomato. Yeah. Uh yeah, maybe. You know what?
+
+[14:41] I'm gonna think about that just because it makes me happier to think that. You know what I'm saying? Anyway. Call in your questions to the show at 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507.
+
+[14:53] You can do that if you're a member of Patreon. And Quinn, why don't you tell them what they get? Okay. Oh, there he goes. Sorry, I was just posting the links.
+
+[15:07] All right. All right. Jack Silvay. Uh so if they become uh patron members, they get access to the live show, either audio or video, depending on what uh tier they are in. And they also get uh prioritized uh questions answered, like you just said, if they're listening live, they can call in live and uh you know a few other goodies that we try to source, usually codes for uh uh books we're talking about or products for some uh guest reject, and uh and access to the the uh Discord, which is a great chat room of uh like-minded people.
+
+[15:59] Okay, and uh is it next week that we're on Monday instead of Tuesday? Yes, next week we're on Monday instead of Tuesday. And who's our guest? Uh Jeremy Fox, previous author of On Vegetables, and now they are releasing uh on meat. I see, I see.
+
+[16:18] And then presumably next on fungi. Right? Uh or among minerals. You could dig a big, a big, a big, big pivot. They've already that's already been done, though, because the only real mineral we eat on its own is salt.
+
+[16:33] You know what I mean? I'm just saying animal mineral vegetable. That was a good one. Oh, I get you, I get you, I understand where you are. But you know, uh and I spoke with Dave Wondrich.
+
+[16:43] I I did the martini expo, Robert Simonson, who's Robert's been on the show, yeah. So Robert Simonson, uh, who writes a book every 22 seconds. He um he started this martini festival, which was at Industry City in Brooklyn. So I did a demo on how that works, and he forced me to uh throw a martini. So for those of you that don't know what I'm talking about, like well, first of all, I hope all of you know that unless otherwise stated, martinis are stirred.
+
+[17:14] Okay. Let's just say that. Martini, classically, no matter what James Bond says to you, is stirred. Now, uh apparently you can order something without having to ask for it shaken. You can order a 007 martini, in which case it will come shaken as a matter of course.
+
+[17:32] But so uh I'm not saying that you can't like it shaken. I'm just saying that that's not the traditional way to do it. Anyway, so I was talking about that, but also throwing it, which if you've seen now is an old technique, but people are doing it more, where you have all of your ice in a big tin with a strainer over it, and then you just pour the liquid back and forth, like you know, making big arcs of booze as you go. And there's all these theories about how it does X, Y, and Z, but fundamentally I looked at it, and for about seven times back and forth, it's about the same as stirring. It adds some air bubbles, the air bubbles go away quickly, so it's just a fancy way to stir.
+
+[18:08] Let's put it that way. Fancy way to stir. Uh so uh I did that. Um, and I saw Dave Wondrich, who was talking about the history of the Martini. Dave Wondridge has a new book out that's a comic bookslash graphic novel history of the cocktail over the past 500 years.
+
+[18:24] And it's like a big, thick, like amazingly illustrated. So I forget the name of the of the of the artist, but he did the history along with this artist, and that is coming out, I think this week. So he said he'd come on, but we gotta figure out how to schedule them in. So these are some of the guests that were going to come on, you can ask questions on and have fun, right? Um I think on two weeks we have Casey Boyle.
+
+[18:47] Oh, nice. All right, cool. Um, so yeah, we got a lot of good guests coming up that uh, you know, hopefully the Patreon crew gets their questions in a two. Uh what else? What else am I missing?
+
+[18:59] Stas, do you do anything interesting? Did you did you give us anything or no? So my dinner parties that I throw out here were named the best dinner parties in LA by Aspire Magazine last week. Wow, that's something Esquire. Very fancy.
+
+[19:15] Now you all have to wear weird suits. You have to look all fancy. No. No. I don't think so.
+
+[19:21] No. No. If we were named best, we don't need to change Dave because we were named best already. Jerk. Like the thing is like it's a funny thing that how does one get invited to your party?
+
+[19:31] Just become friends with you and get cool. Um, well, Jeff Gordonair gets some invites and I get invites, and then the people whose house we're hosting it at get some invites. So it's just a random mix of weirdos. Let me ask you this though. Do you want people with an incredibly cool house to contact you or not?
+
+[19:50] It depends. Um if they're relatively crazy but a low maintenance style and they have a really nice house and they live in LA, that's the kind of person you're looking for. Yeah, yeah. All right. Low maintenance but a little kooky.
+
+[20:05] Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's the nostalgia demographic. Uh okay.
+
+[20:12] Now, oh, one other thing. Yesterday I did an event for uh the McAllen, and this, you know, might be of general interest to uh cocktail nerds. But when you're making a whiskey soda, right? One of the problems if you're doing like a Japanese style highball is that you have to uh you either need to have it such a high alcohol level to get the whiskey flavor right so that the structure of the drink is good that it's very hard to carbonate it properly and it loses its bubbles quickly. You're talking like 14% alcohol or something.
+
+[20:39] And if you take it down to like 10 or 11% alcohol, then all of a sudden it starts tasting thin, like almost like watered down. So in order to maintain it as refreshing and relatively light at eleven, I use this thing, and I've talked about it on Airabunch called polydextrose. But I'll just give you a simple simple recipe. Just make like either a 10 or 11 bricks uh mixture of uh water and polydextrose. So that would be, you know, like uh 10 or 11 grams per hundred grams of the final stuff, and add a little salt and use that as the water when you're forced carbonating it and you can take it to like uh 11% alcohol or 10% just do the math depends on the whiskey makes a fantastic high ball so that's what I did with the McAllen because you know they don't want the flavor of the McCallan messed with it all that's I didn't want to add sugar to it or anything like that.
+
+[21:27] And it's a good general ratio for polydextrose in a high ball situation. It gets more complicated in drinks that have sugar or if your alcohol levels going very low but basically almost in any alcohol ratio that's going to give you the the bot the drink body of a blah blah spirit plus Coca-Cola instead of a blah blah spirit plus seltzer water but it only brings the flavor of seltzer water. So anyway there you go uh so that's fun. All right. Uh when's your next dinner party styles you already have it set up there's one this weekend in Malibu um at a ceramicist house.
+
+[22:08] Ooh and then um yeah and then the next on how many ceramics get broken no last one that we had like on Labor Day we had a fruit omakase that started it off. Who and um this woman uh I forget her name she she works with Juice Angelina and she went to the farmer's market and got all of the peak fruits and then served it up omakase style. It's pretty cool. Yeah did you uh did you invite uh David Carp no we don't we don't like having like food people eat food people's food. Like it's then it becomes a food part, like you know, and I hate that.
+
+[22:54] Well nice. He's he's not food, he's fruit guy. He would have bought pornographic apples for you. Yeah, maybe maybe I would use them for another one, but yeah. Yeah.
+
+[22:59] Anyway. Uh all right. Uh let me see. Math Man wrote in. We don't have everyone here.
+
+[23:11] So he wants to know from us trying to keep your family fed, which by the way, I think is a Beverly Hillbillies reference. Remember the Beverly Hillbillies? Listen to a story about a man named Jed, poor Mountaineer, barely kept his family fed. Then one day he was short shooting at some food up from the ground, came a bubbling crude oil that is black old Texas tea. You've seen the show.
+
+[23:28] Yeah. Anyway, I don't know if that's a reference. But uh, they have a one-year-old and needs some ideas. Uh what are regular meals you make in your household that come back to you time and time again? Pre made sauces, condiments, additions to meals that can be made ahead.
+
+[23:39] What do you what do you guys think? Like uh I'm trying to think, everyone has these things that they just keep in their back pocket and they do all the time. I know Stas's go-to is always pasta, right? Yeah, always. Yeah.
+
+[23:52] It's like super super fast. But um, like what do I make all the time? That's the thing, it's like I should you know what, Math Man? Like we're next, we're gonna have uh we're gonna have John in back in. What do you say, Stas?
+
+[24:06] You make eggs and sardines and grapefruit. That's when I'm by myself. Because it's things that other people in my house don't well, Booker likes sardines, but like, you know, poached eggs, Jen doesn't really love poached eggs, so it's you know what I'll make for myself a lot of times when I'm by myself because I love poached eggs and they're fast. You know what I mean? But uh, you know what?
+
+[24:28] When John comes back, Quinn, put it out to people to think about beforehand so we can come with a good solid list. Because, you know, we have like a while. One year old is gonna be a one-year old for a while. You know, a year at least. So we at least at least 11 months, yeah.
+
+[24:43] Yeah, yeah. Alright. So it will uh so this is food also that a one-year-old would eat too? That's a good question. Hmm.
+
+[24:51] I thought it was more of a speed thing. Just like quick, yeah, speed speed convenient while dealing with it. Because you remember like Rachel Ray used to have a forget what it was, like 30 minute meals or something like that. And I was like, 30 minute meals, who's got 30 minutes? I don't have time to poop.
+
+[25:09] You know what I mean? It's like when you have a very young kid, so it's like you know, you need like 15 minute meals, 20 second meals, you know what I mean? But you also, you know, you're kind of strapped, you don't want to order out all the time. Um he's not really eating carrots anymore. So we start mashing the carrots into the mashed potatoes.
+
+[25:27] Well, my mom used to do that. Yeah, it's delicious. I love carrot mashed potatoes. Like sweet, and it's like we call it lava potatoes. Oh, nice.
+
+[25:34] I used to eat carrot mashed potatoes all the time when I was a kid, and I liked it. Great with fish. Really? Great with fish. Yeah.
+
+[25:40] I mean, you do have to cook those sums of guns. But you know what? Like for stuff like that, so things like this. I'm a big advocate of keeping stuff around for a long time. So mashed potatoes, right?
+
+[25:52] You know, especially you fortify it with butter or whatever you're using, cream. I'm a cream guy, by the way. I'm a cream guy. Uh I know a lot of people prefer butter or mixtures of butter and cream, but I use almost exclusively cream. And even though they never backed us for anything or whatever, I dump a bunch of yondu in it to give it a little bit of right, and tiny bit of sugar, salt, yon du, boom, mashed potatoes.
+
+[26:14] So if you want those to be instantly available, and by the way, I recently retried the old 70s style mashed potato flakes, and I was like, nah. You know what I mean? Like when I was a kid, I thought they were somehow okay. Nah. I think they're a fine ingredient.
+
+[26:29] Anyway, so uh put them into a zipper. What? What do you say? For the instant potato flake. You have item horn brand.
+
+[26:40] I don't remember what brand I used, I bought a brand that didn't have any additives because I was using it as an ingredient because they couldn't find potato flour, and my Parker House rolls have potato flour in them to increase their kind of their softness. And so I tried to use flakes, and so then I just reconstituted some for giggles. And I was like, this is not a mashed potato. Anyway, so uh mash them, I use a ricer, you put them into a Ziploc bag, and then you squeeze it and you s and you squeeze it before you seal it. You want the no air in it, and you want the Ziploc bag to be like maybe half an inch thick or less, right?
+
+[27:16] So you don't put it into like a quart bag. If you have if you're gonna use a quart, put it into a gallon bag and flatten it flat. Freeze it flat. Then as soon as you need it again, you can uh steam it, drop it in water, you know what I mean, and it'll thaw like this. In the plastic?
+
+[27:34] Yeah. I mean it's polyethylene, so you can't boil it. You can't get it above I wouldn't get it above like 75, 80 Celsius, you know what I mean? Uh, because the the plastic gets really soft. But if you have the ability to um, you know, do any sort of low temp or even just put it in water that's like relatively warm, it'll thaw very quickly, and then you can you know put it in something else and heat it.
+
+[27:57] The the thing about thinness is is that what you don't want to do is you don't want to have to um you don't want to have to thaw a big block of anything because it takes forever. And then let's say even a soup, right? You take a soup, and now you throw a soup ice cube into uh into a uh a pot and you turn it on. Now the bottom is burning while you're trying to melt it out and get it, and then you're sitting there with a spoon going blam blam blam blam blam, trying to break up the ice cube. Meanwhile, it takes forever, like it takes forever to uh to thaw it.
+
+[28:28] You know what I mean? It's it's a nightmare. But if it's thin, it thaws almost instantly. So, like always like thin. And by the way, when if it's thin enough, you just put if you don't want to heat in the plastic, which I get, right?
+
+[28:40] You don't you're against heating in plastic, put it into a baking pan in the sink, and just run warm water over it, and it'll thaw fast enough in like you know, 15 minutes, it'll thaw enough to get out of the bag, and it's thin enough then that it's not gonna have that same problem when you put it in the pan and reheat it. So it's just thin. The answer is always thin. You know what I mean? Um anyway.
+
+[29:02] And the plastic won't deteriorate and fold into the into the the food? Not I mean it's not permeable. No, I mean, like, look, a lot of people don't like it's the Ziploc bags are polyethylene, right? So they're they're fairly neutral, they have no smell to them. If you like I say, if you're against heating in plastic, but you're okay storing plastic in the freezer, which I am, then it's a no-brainer.
+
+[29:23] You can buy silicone bags, but they're kind of hard to they're kind of hard for me to clean, so I don't tend to use them as much and they tend to open up, but also those can be thawed in water. And if you don't want to heat up, like warm water in your sink typically isn't hot enough to get where people are too worried about it, and just enough to kind of thaw it out. Same with uh that that's how I freeze all of my stuff. Also, like when I bake bread, if let's say you bake bread, freeze the bread, slice the bread, sorry, slice the bread, freeze the bread, and then individual slices are easy. You can even just throw them in the toaster, and they get like a light toasting on the outside by the time they thaw in the middle and they're not stale because it doesn't take a long time to thaw it out.
+
+[30:01] Whereas if you freeze the whole loaf, you're you're ruined because it takes forever to heat through the loaf. Uh so like a lot of it is if you're gonna cook, like having stuff around that you can instantly snap out. And then plus like the Nastasia style stuff where it's like she makes pasta, you just always have to have stuff in the in the in your pantry. So we should we should all of us and send it to John too for when he's back next week or the next week we don't have a guest, we should just come up with like a list of stuff in our pantries that we have that are kind of go-to things like always have anchovies. Like I I always have like two, three cans of anchovies.
+
+[30:36] I always have like two different sizes, two, three cans of uh whole tomatoes in in juice. I don't like the ones in puree as much. A decent one, a good one. I always have a couple of cans of paste. I always have I always have soy, I always have uh yondu, I always have fish sauce, I always have a variety of hot sauces, I always have usually have chili crisp.
+
+[30:58] I you know, like what do you always have around that you can be like shump blam, shump blam. You know what I mean? Um, that doesn't require fresh shopping that's just like a basis. Always have rice. Always have I always have rice, I always have pasta.
+
+[31:09] Those are always fast, you know. I can't believe it's not bouillon. What is that? What's that one called? Oh, yeah.
+
+[31:15] Chicken. The organic chicken is delicious. Yeah, I use better than bouillon all the time. All the time. Uh I use it again, never received anything from these folks.
+
+[31:25] However, like I cook for a lot of vegetarians, and they're their no beef beef makes great tomato soup. I mean, it's not a fast thing to do, but you know, because I cook the onions for like an hour and a half, right? So when I make tomato soup, it's an unconscionable amount of onion such that my wife and Booker are like, I can't be in this house. You're like ruining the house. I'm like, leave.
+
+[31:47] I'm cooking onions now. Right? I don't even feel onions anymore getting cooked. So you cook them down for like an hour and a half at a low temperature, which is a good use for the induction uh the control freak, right? And then it's uh I, you know, uh, well, I use the I use the beef, I use the beef one for that because I don't use beef stock, right?
+
+[32:06] And then cream and tomato and tomato juice and tomatoes, uh, and it's yeah, basically some sherry, salt and pepper. Maybe you need to start making guitar pedals. Yeah. Yeah, I know, like you know, control freak, oh yeah, you know, like now you have this little thing for these specific tools, and it sounds like it'd be great marketing for uh guitar pedals. Yeah.
+
+[32:29] Yep. You know, guitar pedals are do people still use pedals? Absolutely. Yes, yes, yes. Man, they're so satisfying a good guitar pedal.
+
+[32:38] You know what the most unsatisfying pedal I ever bought was the roll and delay. No, I mean I never had one on the no, because I I I had played bass, right? So I loved, obviously, because who doesn't? I love Bootsy Collins, right? Oh, you had a Mogrif Ogre.
+
+[32:54] Well, I had a base wah. I had a Wawa, I had a base, yeah, and it's just like it ruined, it ruined the chunk. It took the chunk out of the base. Yeah, yeah. So I thought I could plug in, it's a it's a great feeling pedal because it's a like a good, you know, foot action.
+
+[33:08] It's not a stomper, it's a mover, right? You so you keep your foot on it. And I thought I could be like blah blah wow wow. No, no chunk. No, no kerchunks.
+
+[33:19] So I think what those guys were doing were running it through a direct box so that they would get the chunk plus the wah. You know what I mean? Or possibly sending it back through another speaker and re-recording that speaker of just the sound. Yeah. Something.
+
+[33:31] Or we would do a revox. Yeah, because it's like just running it through the wa into your amp sound like trash. And it's the most excited I was ever to have something for my bass. And I never I think once used it live. You know what I mean?
+
+[33:49] Whatever. Back when I used to have my electric Houston special custom with a K that if you touched it wrong would blow you back like 15 feet. The customs with the K with the with the soft pillow top, the little rubber. Yeah, like Eddie Monster. I looked like I had like my full Eddie Monster setup.
+
+[34:05] I had like a I had a 20 V cabinet, like with big, you know, 1520 V and a like a big custom like uh like you know, upholstered vinyl postered like uh thing. Back seat of a station wagon. Yeah, and if you it if you touched that at the wrong, I don't know what it was, but if you touched it the wrong toss, boom, knock you back, you know what I mean? Like, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[34:27] I saw I was talking to someone, I forget who it was, a musician. I just don't think people get electrocuted as much anymore. I don't think people were playing with tubes and solid state stuff anymore. That was always the problem. Yeah.
+
+[34:37] Yeah, always a problem. I would always go and excuse me, play uh uh I I would just have like a my my phone playing a drum beat into a small little mixer, into the headphones while I played bass through a tube amp, mic, and like every time I go in and touched something, something else, I'm like, oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's crazy how like stuff like would just float huge voltages.
+
+[35:00] Huge voltage. You know? Yeah, it's always in that combination of the uh of the tube and then something that's uh non-tube and plugged in 120. Yeah. No, I mean I imagine in Europe it would be even worse where 220's floating around.
+
+[35:15] You know what I mean? Yeah. It's the one time we get to win for not having two twelve 220. But I mean, have musicians ever been killed back in the day? I don't I mean I I don't know.
+
+[35:26] There was um no, I I honestly don't know. It has to have happened. Well, what's that thing with the you know almost famous where he's like you know goes and touches the mic and he's like you know, he gets electrocuted uh on stage. I don't know if it was something to do with water. Yeah, people during rainstorms, I know it used to be a problem.
+
+[35:42] I'm sure. How are you gonna get shocked with a wireless mic now? You know what I mean? You probably the worst thing you're gonna get is probably like uh uh fire or like like fireman calls coming through your speakers. Oh yeah.
+
+[35:54] Well, they stopped that because they changed all the frequencies, but yeah, that was a thing that was happening. I really love uh it was the last music comment, but I really love like some of the old like punk stuff like bad brains where their amps are so cruddy that they get they're actually picking up radio. And so if you turn up the if you turn up the the thing real loud, you can hear radio in the in the back of like some of the things, and it's like I'm like, yeah. You know what I mean? Nowadays you would add that as an effect.
+
+[36:20] You would you know put in a plug in. Yeah. Well, it's like remember when Gilligan's Island had a bad feel like Gilligan had a bad feeling and he could he could tune his head to be a radio. It was like Oh, I do remember that. Yeah.
+
+[36:29] I just found out that it's they have um they have uh uh um plugins now for people that have extreme accents that can clean it up. Really? Yep. I heard about a Scottish plug-in, sounded really good. It makes them Scottish or descotifies, descottifies them.
+
+[36:44] I don't know. I want one that makes you more Scottish. Like more jordy, yeah, yeah. Just more just go. What was his name from From The Simpsons?
+
+[36:51] Oh, I don't remember. But like I know. I've known some like, yeah, yeah, like Groundskeeper really. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[36:58] Yeah. Um. Oh, by the way, Math Man, I know we're gonna do more on this next. And Quinn, write down a note about to us to like come up with ideas. But on pre-made sauces, another good thing, like if you leave sauces in your fridge too long, pre-made, right?
+
+[37:12] They're gonna mold. Right. So, like, again, like freezing them thin is a good is a good way, uh, good way to go if you don't have time to like to batch. You don't have to fully can things, especially if they're gonna be refrigerated, but even to bat batch like uh stop mold from growing on them because you don't want them to get all moldy. Um Captain Cawhog, hey Dave, uh and crew, do you have any suggestions to improve the quality and longevity for freezing lobster?
+
+[37:40] I'm up in mass and I keep some recreational traps in the summer and I get more than I can eat or give away. I freeze it in pot pies, Rangoons, use it in chowder, and it's good, but it gets pretty beat up in the chest freezer. Just blows up the cell structure and gets soggy. Any thoughts? Well, question.
+
+[37:55] First of all, I feel you. I once had to do a demo at the French Culinary Institute, and I went to the uh, I went to the Whole Foods, uh, the one on Bowery Street, which was like one of the, you know, it's a big Whole Food here. And uh I said, hey, I need a lobster because I didn't have time to go anywhere else. I was walking into work, uh, because you know, French culinary is not that far from there. And I don't know if you were there for that one, Stas.
+
+[38:18] And um they're like, oh, we don't sell uh live lobsters. We have frozen lobsters. I'm like, what do you mean? I was like, what do you mean you don't sell live lobsters? And the guy goes, swear to God, he goes, Well, it's it's cruel.
+
+[38:31] I'm like, what? I was like, so it's okay to murder them somewhere else and then freeze them, but to sell them to me live so that I murder them, that's cruel. And he was like, Yeah. I was like, uh uh, okay. I didn't have you know, I didn't have time to argue with the fella.
+
+[38:52] So I bought their frozen lobster, and just as you say, Captain Cahog, garbage, watery, nasty, like you could use it like maybe in a salad, but you could never eat it like it was like an actual lobster. It's trash. By the way, Captain Gahog, I'm gonna say something before we talk about lobster, in defense of the cahog. I like caw hogs because I love stuffed clams. Now I know a lot of people don't like stuffed clams.
+
+[39:21] So for those of you that don't know, caw hogs are like bit clams, they gotten kind of big, they're big, right? And we used to go illegally get them, and you would always chop them up real fine. You could make chowder, but I love baked stuffed clams. Is anyone else here a fan of baked stuffed clams or am I the only one? Joe's a fan of stuffies.
+
+[39:41] Anyone else? Stoddicts? No. You don't like them? No.
+
+[39:46] Why? Too much bread? Yeah, I don't like yeah. I've never liked them. What about like b the breaded oyster cooked oyster preparations?
+
+[39:56] No. No. So you don't like any of those stuff. I don't like bread. I don't like breaded, yeah.
+
+[40:01] Whatever. You don't like breaded, like bread mixed with fish stuff. What about crab cakes? No. Right.
+
+[40:09] So that's kind of the ultimate breaded fish product. So if you don't like crab cakes, then you're not gonna like any of them. Right? Right. Yeah.
+
+[40:20] What about just asking? Crispy clam strips. No. Oh my god. Do you like clam?
+
+[40:33] I like them in pasta in that in that whatever that's called. Alright. So you like it with some starch. What about pizza? I just gonna ask pizza and clams.
+
+[40:43] No. No. I don't understand that one. Huh. Okay.
+
+[40:47] And when you eat clams in the pasta though, you don't want the bellies. You just want the the st like what would be the strip, right? You're not a belly person, right? No, the belly's fine. Okay, wow.
+
+[41:00] It's gets more and more interesting. It's more and more interesting. Uh what about you, Quinn? You're uh you're I mean, like, as again, as a 70s kid, if you don't like crispy clam strips, something's wrong with you. Jacques Papin, aka the Peep Show, Jackie Peeps did the original crispy clam strip recipe for Hojo.
+
+[41:15] So, you know what I mean? What are you saying, Quinn? I'm not a big clam, I'm not a big clam guy. I think the texture is not not good for me. Okay.
+
+[41:25] Fair. Uh anyway, so but what about baked stuffed clams? Because they're in tiny pieces. I'm not sure if I've ever actually had that again. We don't, we don't buy a lot of clams.
+
+[41:40] Because you live. Is that like a clam casino? No, because they're bigger. Like stuffed clams, like it's big. It's like it's like it's almost like uh it's like a it's more bread than you would get in a crab cake.
+
+[41:50] So it's really like it's almost like a like a like a dumpling or bread pudding, but it's baked in the clam shell. You know what I mean? And you spoon it out. Uh well, maybe it's because you live so far away from the water that you don't eat clams, it doesn't mess with you because you live right by the water. Uh I would suggest, Quinn, get some some baked stuffed clams and see what you think about them because it it's you know, the the clam is in tiny pieces, so at least you could try it and then you could, you know, figure out whether you like it.
+
+[42:14] Anyway, back to Captain Cahog's question about lobsters. Uh the problem with the uh I think one of the problems with the Whole Foods one I bought was that it was raw. I have a very good feeling that it that meat would stand up much better if it was fully cooked before it was frozen. So are you fully cooking the meat before it's frozen, or are you just par cooking it and then freezing it? If you are fully cooking it, then I have to address uh I have to address some more things.
+
+[42:45] The faster you freeze something, the less damage you're gonna have to the product, right? So sorry, going back to it again, like I would get it in Ziploc bags thin or even vacuumed if you can, right? But not, you know, I don't want to smash it, or you pack it in there enough so that it's you know, so that you can get the thermal energy, you know, in and out of it quickly, right? So you're not have big air or vacuum gaps that are being insulators, right? So you get it in whatever bag you're gonna put it in, get it thin, right?
+
+[43:14] Put it in the fridge, get it all the way down to fridge temperature, like all the way down, uh, or even like in ice water, and then salt and ice, like like you were like you were doing ice cream, salt and ice, the same amount you do for ice cream, very, very rapid freezing. And then you should be able to freeze it solid in like if it if it's if it's only like half an inch thick thick, the the the bag, you should be able to freeze it solid in like half hour. You know what I mean? Something like this. And so when you're freezing it that fast, you're gonna have much less damage to the structure because it's not the ice crystals aren't gonna be as big, they're not gonna shatter the meat as much.
+
+[43:53] So I I would ask one, is it cooked or like fully cooked? Two, uh, is it uh can you freeze it, fast freeze it with uh salt and ice, or you know, if you have a friend with a blast chiller, that's that's the way. If you have a friend with a blast chiller, then you can do IQF. You can freeze them kind of on you get silk, you get a sil pad or silicone, you put them on a tray, and then you blast freeze them, and they freeze very quickly. Then you scrape the meat up, put it into a ziploc bag, and then you it's much easier to portion out.
+
+[44:22] That's the issue with freezing in a solid block, is that you have to then thaw the whole block and use it. But you know, and of course, you want to say why don't people ever why don't people ever do with lobster what you do with like tuna fish or sardines or whatever, and like can it and put it in oil and all that stuff? Because that would be good to just scoop into pasta, you know. That's a good question. I'm trying to think, like delicate.
+
+[44:48] I think I don't know. I don't I don't like totally stable. No. What were you saying, Sas? I'm saying, is it because it's a delicacy that we don't hand it, tin, tin it?
+
+[45:04] I don't know. You tin clams, you tin mussels, you tin squid, you tin octopus, you tin sardines, you tin mackerel, you tin salmon, you tin uh tuna. Yeah. Huh. What about Langstone?
+
+[45:18] Langstein? Yeah, you get those tin. Yeah, I've seen Lingaste eels you can get, you can get sea urchin row, you can get I don't know. Uh you know what? Quinn?
+
+[45:28] Well, we'll put it on the thing. Look it up. Someone look it up and see whether we can buy it and taste it. I don't know. Like what happens with super, super, super long cooking?
+
+[45:36] I'm not sure. I remember I used to cook like big, big, big, big, big lobster, and it had kind of a pot roast texture, but I'm saying it wouldn't be the texture that you would get out of fresh, but could it be an interesting texture? Almost like like lobster riette where you shred it and it's like just like fibers. It's not very fatty. Most of those tin things have enough fat in them, or they like douse them in oil.
+
+[45:57] But if you just pack it in oil, you should be able to get, you know, some of that. I don't know. I don't know. Interesting question to be looked up. Um so Elliot, uh like Quinn was like, maybe you could talk more about bread, and I think Stas will kill me.
+
+[46:14] So someday when Nustaz is not around, I'll talk more about milling and bread. Uh although I will say this, it was funny. Uh so I was making I needed to make some bread, and I I put it in the fridge to, you know, retard it a little bit on the uh on its final proof. And I pulled it out, I turned on the oven, pulled it out, fell asleep. Fell dead asleep.
+
+[46:38] And Jen wasn't there that night asleep. I wake up and they have puffed way out, like so overproofed. I've never overproofed something this much in my life. And I was like, well, you know, I'm gonna bake it anyway. So I, you know, scored it, and they didn't rise at all, but for some miracle, they didn't deflate either.
+
+[46:59] They just kind of stayed the way they were. This never happened. It was so weird. Like, so it ended up actually tasting fine, but a little denser than normal because it didn't have any spring to it, but it's weird. So, you know, if you should do the same thing and accidentally fall asleep and not have anyone to wake you up when you pull out the bread to do its, you know, last warm-up before you put it in.
+
+[47:19] Just bake it, man. Just bake it. It's only an extra half hour, 40 minutes of your life. Just freaking bake it. You know what I mean?
+
+[47:26] Anyway. Um, hey, someone on the Discord did just send a link to a canned lobster on our website, but they are out of stock. Uh-huh. So it does exist. Okay, you know what else exists though?
+
+[47:40] We need to figure out whether one, it exists, and two, whether it's any damn good. The Germans, right? Okay. They used to make a canned cheeseburger. Yeah.
+
+[47:49] You know what everyone said it was? Terrible. Nobody, not one person had it and liked it. Not one single human ever ate this canned cheeseburger and enjoyed it. I don't even think they make it anymore.
+
+[48:02] They also make canned bacon. I don't know if it's any good. I think I've seen the canned cheeseburger on like some YouTube video. Yeah. Well, we filmed the craziest thing.
+
+[48:13] Yeah, and you know what they said? They ate it and they say it sucked. It's a German thing. First of all, uh, you know, I was just in Germany, love it. Highly recommend the Cologne Cathedral.
+
+[48:23] Amazing. Especially check out the Gerhard Richter uh uh stained glass window that was put in only in 2007. It's one of my favorite stained glass windows I've ever seen. It's amazing. Uh they don't know how to make a cheeseburger.
+
+[48:36] Um, okay. Uh we have no new information for Thomas H on thickening uh oils and without them becoming opaque. So anyone on the Discord help us out with that. Sasha had a question. Uh I got a question about sourcing CO2 for carbonating drinks both at home and eventually in a bar setting.
+
+[48:52] Is there such a thing as food or beverage grade CO2? And should I specifically be looking for that? Uh in Liquid Intelligence, Dave mentions refilling tanks at welding shops. From what I understand, welding shops often use a CO2 argon mix, or even if it's 100% CO2, it might be industrial grade, which I've read can contain more impurities that aren't food safe. Has anyone looked into this in detail?
+
+[49:11] Or do you guys just refill your tanks at welding shops and don't ask about the grade? Are there any legal or health regulations regarding the grade of CO2 used in bars in the US and EU? Most of the time with tanks, it's actually the your tank that's the problem, right? So they're selling the same roughly CO2 oxygen, LN, they're selling it to welders, they're selling it to uh hospitals, they're selling it to, you know, people who need these. So uh and when they're doing the mixes, like a lot of times those are kind of pre-mixed, so there's no real chance of you getting uh a CO2 argon mix because argon's fantastically more expensive than CO2.
+
+[49:50] There's no way you're gonna get a CO2 argon mix if you what you ask for is CO2. Now, if the tank is completely empty and they're they do a bad job purging it, or if you're swapping gases out, you can get other things in into those tanks. But I have used uh welding supply shops for 20 something years and have never more than 20 years, 30 years, and I've never had uh an issue. Now there are people who say they do quote unquote food grade, no one's making their own CO2. You know what I mean?
+
+[50:21] They're getting it, and so I think it's more about the tanks that you're putting it into that can be you know an issue if they haven't been, you know. Let's say somebody else had a tank, it's not new and they filled it with something else, like maybe it's a problem. I don't know. Uh, but I've never I've never had a had an issue with it. Now, if I what I would do nowadays that people didn't used to do is get these CO2 deliveries, and you don't ever need to worry about it.
+
+[50:46] Like they just deliver the liquid, and those folks, if you're doing liquid delivery, maybe you need to worry more about it. I don't know. Uh, but whatever. What do you think? Smothered stars.
+
+[50:57] Yeah. Yeah. Good. Bye. Balloon knot.
+
+[51:01] Uh, what starch is most uh mochi uh slash stretchy uh textured after reheating very thick starch, goo cooked, fully chilled for multiple days, reheat to 60 C. I'm using uh potato starch, but I feel there's room for improvement. Uh like should I use hybrid starch and agar or switch to tapioca or kudzu. Problem with potato starch is it's pretty fragile. Like potato starch is interesting because it's kind of the largest of all of the common uh starch granules that you use, and it um, you know, it it it paces out relatively quickly, it absorbs a lot of water.
+
+[51:33] Um, but uh, you know, it also breaks down pretty quickly when it's kind of overcooked. So, yeah, I mean tapioca is like the god of stretch. I remember once uh I think Stas, we were both doing it. We were remember we were firing the museum's puffing cannon, and we threw uh um tapioca pellets into it, you know, the the little ones that they use for boba. Yep.
+
+[51:55] And uh I've never it was the grossest thing. We so what the way that those guns work is you you you heat them up and go with a little water so that they you know they it gets up to the point where when you release the pressure, the steam rapidly and puffs it, right? And uh we were doing, I don't know, let's just say like 10, 12 pounds at a time, right? It was a pretty big gun. And we put the tapioca in, and it got was so gooey that it didn't that it stuck together and didn't blow out into pieces like it did.
+
+[52:29] Instead, it extruded like some sort of cat in the hat, top hat or like uni dread of like of like tapioca goop that like until it hardened up was like all nasty. Remember this, Doz? And we were all like, oh. It was like the gun had pooped out a tapioca poo. So it's like tapioca, I think is like, you know, super, it's like super stretchy.
+
+[52:54] But also you say most mochi, like if you if the if the texture you want is mochi, use mochi. You know, get mochico, get like, you know, the mochi flour, because that stuff's great. I mean, if you can buy a real mochi maker, get a real mochi maker because they're also fun and like fresh mochi. I love the texture of that. And you can reheat that one, you can put it into blocks and reheat it days later, and it will get re-stretchy and gooey.
+
+[53:20] And it's really good at being that. So since you call out mochi, why don't you let us know why not mochi? You know what I mean? Uh Kev, doing a pop-up soon. Uh, and my kitchen space is going to be pretty lean in terms of capability.
+
+[53:33] It's been a while since I've cooked meat sous vide. Anyone have metrics for beef short rib that cuts and eats like a steak? At one point I was doing 48 hours at 60 C, but does anyone have an updated perspective? The cooking issues charts are old enough to legally drink where I'm from. So I'm wondering if there's any been any progression.
+
+[53:49] It'll be a pre-sear, then a post-sear based in brown butter, Urs, garlic, then carved. Yeah. So uh here's the thing. I mean, uh back when I made those charts, uh I I didn't do a I did I hadn't yet started doing what I do now all the time, which is take to a temperature and then drop, right? So um if you're gonna do if you want it to eat like steak, I'm assuming what you're saying is that you want it to eat like you want it to look like steak too, and not be, not be overcooked.
+
+[54:23] Uh Bruno Gusot used to do his, he used to do beef short rib at 54.4 Celsius for uh 72 hours. Okay. And you know, that was when he determined that the short rib got as tender as steak when it was cooked down at 54-4. Now, um Chef Alain Sayak, who was you know running the French Culinary Institute at the time, said to me, he because he'd eaten at that meal, said this. He's like, uh, I hated that.
+
+[54:55] I I hated that. It made me sick. I got sick, very sick. Because he didn't, because like the idea of eating a short rib that looked rare was so repulsive to him internally that he couldn't tolerate it, which is one of the reasons why when we did our short ribs at the at the culinary institute, even when we were doing long cooks, we would do 57 or 60. Also, they taste more like short ribs at 60 than they do at 57.
+
+[55:20] Now, it's not gonna be like a steak because 60 degrees is pretty well cooked. And the longer you keep it at 60, the more kind of cooked it's going to look, and the kind of the firmer it's it's gonna get. Uh so if you want it to be like steak, I would probably take it up to like 55, 56 and keep it rocking for that long time. But I would really try to see whether you like it at that point. So um like short rib that is cooked at like 57, even.
+
+[55:51] I've never done it at 55, but 57 for about 24 hours, right? Now has the texture of skirt steak, right? Uh so you can do that maybe you could do it at 55 for like 30 hours, something like that. And now the short rib is not gonna be mushy yet, but it will broken down to the point where you could slice it and cook it like a skirt steak, but it's not gonna be like ribeye or tenderloin thing yet. I actually, the more I did that over the years, the very, very soft, the very highly like uh collagen cuts like that that were cooked for an extremely long time until they were hyper tender.
+
+[56:26] The problem I have with them is that that tenderness is actually grades into mushiness. So you have to make sure that it's not kind of mushy. And I'd run some tests. So it all depends on, but I don't think that happens when you're taking it from uh like a short rib texture into skirt steak texture because there's still enough texture left that it's not mushy, if that makes sense. But I definitely would do whatever you want, the cooked look, and then uh drop it by like three, four or five degrees, uh, and then and then hold it at the lower temperature for the length of time needed to get the texture you want.
+
+[57:03] So that's the change, only real change that I've made. But I haven't tested any of those like 24, 72, 48 hour cooks with those with those new techniques yet. I've only done like eight, 10, 12 hours. Um what do you think? Covered smothered or no?
+
+[57:19] Yeah. All right. Yeah. All right. Uh Rock Baker says, what is the method for using methylcel F50 to make vegan meringues?
+
+[57:26] What's the dose, and is there another added involved? And is pH a factor? I don't remember if pH is a factor. Uh we always used to do 1% uh of the base uh in uh as methylcel F50. So I'll give you the old recipe that we used to use for meringues.
+
+[57:42] Uh it was uh 400 grams of passion fruit puree, uh a little bit of simple syrup to adjust the puree's uh sweetness up because the passion fruit for a puree was usually a little bit uh, you know, a little bit too sour, even for us, although one of the nice things is the sour, uh salt, and then four grams, so one percent of the final recipe as uh as methyl cell, and you you know, you just whip it in uh and then you pipe it and you dehydrate it and they get delicious. But the problem with this is that there's no protein in that. And so it's very high hygroscopic, and if you don't keep them incredibly dry, like sealed with a desiccant, they get soft, right? So Stas, you remember they used to like those things, right? They were okay.
+
+[58:25] Yeah. But you like passion fruit. Yeah. Yeah. So uh, you know, that's why I think the people who do uh vegan meringues now, a lot of times they're using aquafaba, which has some protein in it, which is gonna make it a little less uh, you know, hygroscopic.
+
+[58:40] Uh and so hopefully, and also we didn't add enough sugar. If you would add a lot more sugar and you baked it, the structure probably would have been a lot more solid, but that's that's what we used to do. Um that's that's how you do it, about 1%. Um Lucas P wants to know about nitromutal grasshopper specs. I don't remember what the spec is.
+
+[58:57] We would nitromuddle the mint, add the booze, and then grate chocolate over the top of it because you don't want to add, you can get a white uh creme de whatever. We used cream syrup. We nitro muddled, we used cream syrup, and then we used uh just grated chocolate instead of using a uh creme de cacao in it. Um so anyway, that's what we did. Uh I don't have the spec though anymore because we just kept doing it.
+
+[59:18] I don't know if we ever put on the menu. Um Posit MD wants to know about good Belgian fruit technique. We'll wait for John to get back because he's Captain Belgium, but you know, I've done been doing some work on it recently. Uh and Catherine, who saw the uh thanks for coming out to Harvard, and so I forgot about that, went to Harvard. I did a talk where, you know, I always say that pH is not the same as sour and that acidity and sour are different.
+
+[59:41] And I actually passed out for the first time sodium bisulfate, which is where you take hydrochloric acid and you remove uh one of the H's and become sodium bisulfate, which is different from the preservative bisulfate, and you make it the same pH as lemon juice and you pass it around and it doesn't taste sour at all. They uh Catherine wants to know if there's anything else you can do with it. I'm like, I'm sure you could. I haven't done a lot of testing with it, but I'm sure it can be used for um a lot of other, I'm sure it can be used for a lot of other uh things like acided, like uh any pH related stuff. But I'll think more about it and we'll get back later.
+
+[1:00:12] Sorry I didn't get to Kirk and your rotap question, we'll get it next time. And Thomas with your Movile pants, don't worry about doing pasta at a high temperature, Thomas, and we'll talk about it later. And uh we'll get to the rest of them next week on cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arrow, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City, News Dance Studios. Joined as usual with John behind me. How are you doing? Doing great, thanks.
+
+[0:20] Yeah, doing well? Yeah. Got Joe rocking the panels. What's up? Hey, hey, hey.
+
+[0:25] Hey, hey. Hey. No Nastasia the Hammer Lopez today, but we do have a Jackie Molecules in from uh Los Angeles. How you doing? Good.
+
+[0:34] Jet lagged, but good. Okay. And uh holding down the upper upper left, we have uh Quinn, how you doing? I'm good. Yeah?
+
+[0:44] That's great. And special guest today, right on what is it? What do you call? Right on the tails of releasing his new book on meat is Chef Jeremy Fox from Los Angeles. So we got Los Angeles in New York, we have LA in LA and one LA missing.
+
+[0:58] So we're all around. How are you doing? Great. Thanks for having me. Yeah.
+
+[1:02] So uh this is the period on the show where um where we discuss happenings in the last week. But if I may, oh by the way, uh this is not our normal day, but uh hopefully uh the Patreon people got the message and they know that we're recording on a Monday instead of a Tuesday. Uh calling your questions to 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507. And usually I have John or I have uh Quinn say why you might want to join the Patreon.
+
+[1:28] But I actually just posted my own calculator today. So those of you that are on the paid subscription on Patreon, uh, and where do you where do you where do you go to for that, John? Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Yeah, uh, so I finally made a calculator where you can enter either the density and the bricks on a refractometer of a liquid, and it'll tell you both the sugar and the alcohol. And or uh you can enter the bottle listed ABV and the bricks or the density, but no one has a refract.
+
+[1:57] No one has a density meter, not a refractometer. That's not a thing. Nobody has that. So anyway, so like any of you now who are Patreon members, and we're still working out the deal, so let me know uh let me know what works and what doesn't. But any of you out there who are Patreon members can use this calculator and uh go to any liquor on your back bar and figure out how much sugar's in it.
+
+[2:15] Am I bleeding? No, you're just what? All right. Uh so uh the reason I asked if I'm bleeding is aside from that. Oh, by the way, what else can they get on the Patreon, John?
+
+[2:24] You get access to our Discord where you get to connect with awesome people like Kevin Young, who just left a message for you, Dave. The eggplant is called Mizunasu. I know I I have it have it on my uh on my thing. Well, we'll get into it. Gotcha.
+
+[2:34] Um, but yeah, you get uh discounts from uh Kitchen Arts and Letters uh where Jeremy uh just uh signed some books today, and you can get that stuff there. Um yeah, just a whole bunch of other things. So check out patreon.com/slash cooking issues. Yeah. Uh okay, so today, first of all, it's it's not model you, it's real UN week here in New York, which means like everything around Midtown is is a nightmare.
+
+[2:55] So actually, I left in time to get here, which is unusual, right? I even paid the extra money to get an electric city bike so that I could like really hoof it over here. Zipping down um, what is that? Zipping down First Avenue, coming up first avenue. Right, there's a bike line.
+
+[3:10] It's green. For those of you that have never been to New York, we have green bike lanes, right? Poof, going up First Avenue, zipping up towards Rock Center. I see about a block distant liquid on the ground, and then a tiny, one of those little freaking like piece of mojado caution signs draped over the pipeline that is going across, you know, the the the tube that's going across the thing. So I assume then the liquid looks kind of reddish.
+
+[3:34] I assume they're power washing something, and that's why they have that hose, and then you know, it's water. I assume it's water, right? So I hit the brakes, and then as soon as I enter the puddle, I realize, guess what? It's oil. It's oil.
+
+[3:47] So I still have the brakes on. So of course, instantly my back end slides out from underneath me. I go flying. I land on my feet miraculously and then slip and fall and smack into the pavement because of course it's oil. Then the freaking people who are spilling oil, oil all over New York City streets, right?
+
+[4:08] And not shutting the not shutting the bike lane down, but just putting a tiny caution sign, right? Saying saying caution, which by the way, hitting the brakes, does that not count as caution, John? Yeah. Yeah. That's caution, right?
+
+[4:19] That's caution. That's caution. In a bike lane? That's caution. They start yelling at me.
+
+[4:24] Why didn't you slow down? I was like, I did. That's the problem. I might have gone through this goddamn thing if I hadn't hit the brakes, if I had just gone straight, I probably would have rocketed over it and then maybe skid it out like at least not in the oil puddle. Instead, I'm completely coated in, I smell like you got doused in WD-40.
+
+[4:43] Have any of you ever worked in a garage before? I smell like the drain pan. I did actually. Yeah, right? I smell like the drain pan.
+
+[4:50] Like, which isn't unpleasant if you can get away from it, but it's like it's horrifying. Everything I'm wearing is soaked in oil and it's all ruined. Anyway, so they started yelling at me. And so I started yelling at them. I'm like, are you freaking nuts?
+
+[5:04] I was like, this isn't water. He's like, does it look like water? I'm like, I'm on a bike going down the street. I hit the brakes. Am I supposed to diagnose that just because it's colored in this city where everything is filthy?
+
+[5:14] That I's supposed to diagnose that this is oil from a bike. Also, so I'm an old man. Well, how do you know what I can see and what I can't see? I'm good enough to bike. What the hell?
+
+[5:23] So they start yelling at me. So I pick up the freaking uh, you know, the the compost bins that are on the sidewalk. And I'm like, I'm I'm closing the bike lane. You're an idiot. And then they're like, you can't do that.
+
+[5:35] We need to clean this up. I'm like, you're an idiots. And then they move the things back off. They start yelling at me. They start dropping F bombs on me.
+
+[5:41] Meanwhile, other bikes are coming, and I'm like, stop. Don't go in this lane. And they go around so they don't spill, so that's good. But then I try to get back on the bike, and of course, my feet don't stay on the pedals anymore. I can barely hold on to the bike.
+
+[5:55] And in fact, the traction on the bike doesn't work anymore, right? So I can't bike for at least a block until I blast the oil out of the transmission of the bike. And the whole time I'm slipping off the dance, the damn bike. I want to murder, not you, Jeremy. Not anyone in this.
+
+[6:10] I didn't do anything. But I'm in a murderous frame of mind. You know what they call this? Covered and smothered. Yeah.
+
+[6:18] You know what they call this though? New York City. Welcome. I'm sorry, Dave. I can't remember that.
+
+[6:23] I broke my glasses, so. I want to tell what else that happened. Took the wrong bag from the airport and got gout. So those are my uh that's what I've been doing on my uh summer vacation. Yeah, well, you know, I was saying, like, you know, you got a little get a little bit of gout when you come out with the on meat book.
+
+[6:39] Yeah, especially with the appreciated but high level of fats that you I've been eating sweetbreads and foie gras and anchovies the last few days. Well, so you know, before we get into what everyone else has done this week, why don't you tell us about your wedding terrain? The wedding terrain, yeah. Um it's it's in the book. It has foie gras on it.
+
+[6:59] We can't actually serve it in um in California, unfortunately. You can still give it away though, right? Can't give it away either. Oh, yeah. It used to be the workaround.
+
+[7:06] Yeah, like you could charge for a glass of sauteern. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it comes with a free foie gras. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They they they killed that loophole.
+
+[7:14] Yeah, yeah. But it was um, it's just uh a really rustic terrine. It's based on the Chichuli from um uh Paul Bertoli's cooking by hand. Who wrote the foreword for the book, by the way? Yes, which was a huge treat.
+
+[7:26] Although he didn't hire you when you first asked him for a job. What the hell is that all about? I think he knew what he was doing. He's a smart guy. I mean, I went on to do a vegetable to do a vegetarian restaurant, so uh yeah, he must have he must have realized something.
+
+[7:40] But you wanted to work at the butcher at the Fermani. Yeah, he was hiring um in 2007, he was hiring for uh uh head of production. And I think I I assumed that it was gonna be like just a bunch of people in Berkeley on like a big wood wood table making salani, and but it was very it was a USDA facility, so everyone's in like coats and boots up to their knees and stepping in gel before they go in, and it was um uh way outside of my comfort zone. He was the first like chef chef, I think, to do that, right? The first who had like really standardized recipes for uh cured meats, I I I think before the charcuterie book, the rule in uh uh Poulson book came out.
+
+[8:22] Um cooking by hand was the only thing with a followable recipe to cure anything in the case. Exactly. I mean like the Greeks and everyone loves it, but you couldn't really cure a salami from it. No, that was very much Elizabeth David, like you know, a handful of this and 10 of this. Um I digress.
+
+[8:36] Wedding wedding terrine. Wedding terrine, yeah. So um when I uh when I got married um to my wife Rachel, who is the co-author on the book with me, um, this was in 2014. Um we didn't cook, I didn't do the food for the wedding. I was smart enough not to do that.
+
+[8:51] Um being smart, yeah. Yeah, uh Jessica Koslow from Squirrel did our did our dinner, but I made a I made a tureen, um, which is uh that that country, you know, that really uh rustic terrine with the log of foie gras down the middle, and um everyone devoured it. We didn't get to try it, but um my wife has a really soft spot for that. You got your pork, you got your foie gras. What else you want?
+
+[9:13] But the picture on the next page is green all around the outside, but unless I scanned incorrectly, you didn't green the heck out of the fat in that, right? That is that a different terrine, or is that the terrine you just green the heck out of the fat? That's the terrine, yeah, yeah. Um purity, the some of the solid fat um and some of the the rendered fat with uh with uh parsley. Yeah, looks good.
+
+[9:32] Looks green. Thank you. You know what the thing is? If you just have big chunks of fat, although I do appreciate that in all of your mortadella style or chunk fat style recipes, you don't just use cubed up fat, you use larda, which is sick move, by the way. Uh but yeah, so like if it's green, people are like, oh, it's green, that's healthy.
+
+[9:49] I could eat that. Oh, yeah, it's healthy. It's got it's got vegetables in it. Yeah, yeah. You know, by the way, is there anything on earth that can freshen something up faster than parsley?
+
+[9:58] Lemon zest. Lemon, lemon and parsley and lemon parsley, olive oil. Yeah, it's good stuff. Uh all right, so back to where we're going. Uh, what do you guys got uh over the past uh week?
+
+[10:10] Anything? I have too much. I mean, well, give us some save it up, save it up, and we'll do it, we'll do it bit by bit. What do you got? He was in China.
+
+[10:17] Jack was in China recently. Let's maybe let's stick with meat. So the the braised rabbit head, or like you know, the the Chengdu rabbit head. How much meat you getting out of a rabbit? How much meat how many rabbit heads are on the plate?
+
+[10:30] How many rabbit heads on the plate? The twelve? One. Uh we won. We want one duck head, one rabbit head.
+
+[10:35] Yeah. Like it's kind of an a la carte place, right? Unless they give you gloves and you gotta work for it. I mean, I mean, you could work all you want. A rabbit head is still the size of a rabbit head, though.
+
+[10:47] Remember the monkey heads? It's not a full meal. It's like part of the brain, chilled monkey brains. Yeah. All right.
+
+[10:53] Wait, but is so you're eating the brains. I don't eat brains anymore. I don't mind brains, but you don't see them anymore. There's only so much. As a matter of like spongiform and sapphalopathy, I just stay away from it.
+
+[11:05] Until they cure all that stuff, until they can figure it out. I don't want to be the next mad cow. You're really smart, so I'm gonna go with what you say there. I'm gonna I might adopt that now. Um I mean they're good.
+
+[11:16] I don't love them enough to override my you know what I mean? Now, sweetbreads, good. I I suck it up, I get I I get the gout, but I gotta eat sweetbreads. Yeah, get the gout. You gotta get a t-shirt.
+
+[11:27] Get a t-shirt made. Yeah. Get the gout. Get some money. Yeah.
+
+[11:31] Is that Trump? Yeah. Get that gout money. Uh so the rabbit head came, you said braised? Yeah, like you know, uh split a bunch of sauce sauces and stuff.
+
+[11:43] No, no, no, just a whole it's whole. They give you these, they give you gloves and you're just kind of picking at it. I have never been served other than fish. Uh uh, sorry, I'm bleeding. Uh, never uh other than fish been served whole heads, always split, like the couplet cell and stuff like this.
+
+[12:00] Even bird heads, I've always been served split. I see the draw in this though, because like I always when I cut break down like uh mangoes, I always want to save the the cores and serve those to VIPs to just kind of pick up and eat like corn and lacob. Yeah, it is pleasant to do that. It's the take it takes the right diner to to want that. So here's something.
+
+[12:20] See whether you like it or whether a lot of people are not necessarily familiar with it. It goes by many names. Mom and see. Did I talk about this last week or two weeks ago? Momancillo, Spanish Limes, and or Kinepes, depending on which culture is growing them.
+
+[12:32] But they they're lychee-esque, but instead of having like a crisp flesh that comes easily off of the giant seed, it's a thin sour flesh that stays incredibly adhered to the seed. So you have this giant like uh well, which candy is that that's this big? The one that's this big, this round, like the jawbreakers. It's like having a jaw break in your mouth that you're just sucking on for a couple of minutes, getting the thing, and then you spit it into the grass and then you keep going. So I find it pleasurable even though I'm not getting a lot out of it.
+
+[12:59] And that seems to me like the mango thing, because you get that fiber and that you get to bite on it and pull it. Is that what you like about it? Yeah. It's got that that that primal, you know, experience of you know, maybe what how cavemen ate. Yeah.
+
+[13:13] Yeah, except for they probably had not good mangoes. Not the yeah. Not the best mangoes. No, not in prehistoric times. Yeah, they were all they were all heat treated so that the fruit flies didn't uh propagate.
+
+[13:23] So they were all picked under ripe and then killed before they made it to my market. That's how the caveman ate mangoes. I read that. Yeah. Uh all right.
+
+[13:30] So you had your braised rabbit head, and uh what w uh what was the the spicing on? I'm assuming this is more of a sauce situation than a meat situation, because there's like literally like one tidbit of meat in a rabbit head. Yeah, yeah, true. And I mean, you know, like I said, you have to work hard for it. And you know, the the thing is that what you get to wash it down with is some of that famous warm Chinese beer.
+
+[13:53] Oh god. Like bootlegging. Yeah, that was one of the things. Because I've had that over there, too. It's not like a sing sau or something.
+
+[14:02] It's just like unless you specify, especially some of the places that don't have tourists, which this was one of those places, they just don't drink cold beverages. Yeah. So you know what doesn't work though? American style lagers, no matter where they're made, like room tap, just doesn't work for me. I don't think any beer really works.
+
+[14:20] You don't like those, you don't like that British style of like mildly cool um yeah, that that kind of works. I don't think so either. Jeremy's when you're when you're traveling down a spicy rabbit head, uh you know, warm lager doesn't really hit. No, warm lager, like I say, almost never what I want. Warm water also almost never what I unless it's tea and then it's hot.
+
+[14:38] Like hot water. Yeah, that's yeah. By the way, exactly. Can I just say for anyone that can hear my voice who is never bathed in like automotive oil like stuff before? So strong in here.
+
+[14:50] Yeah, listen, for those of you that never done it, it's noticeable. Just don't don't do it. It's like you you can check it off your bucket list before you do it. Just take it off of your bucket list. It just does not something you need to do.
+
+[15:01] I feel so stoned right now. I feel I feel yeah. My next show is gonna kill you. I feel both high and horrible. I feel both high and horrible.
+
+[15:09] And like I said, in a little bit of pain. But just open the door. Uh yeah, okay. Yeah. Um, Quinn, what do you got?
+
+[15:17] You always wait, wait, Jack. You want to do more? You want to do a little bit each week, or you got another dish for me? Yeah, yeah. I'll s I'll save I'll save more for a no guest week.
+
+[15:24] All right. Quinn, what do you got, man? Uh let's see. I got two things. By the way, before you go, Jeremy has a guanchali recipe.
+
+[15:32] Hold on a Jeremy has a guanchali recipe in his book. I know you like guanchali, and yours is bundled tightly but not rolled, right? Yeah. And Quinn, like what I forget, you said your uh your uh your loss on it, measure before after is like 30 or 35%. I think you said something in that range of weight off the off the house.
+
+[15:51] Yeah, I mean I mean Jeremy's. I shoot, I shoot more like oh, sorry. Yeah, yeah. Now what do you do, Queen? Yeah, I shoot.
+
+[15:59] I think I yeah, it depends. Some I've gone all the way to 30. Lately I've been pulling more around 25%. Okay. So Jeremy, is yours, because I I like I can't like mentally do the math.
+
+[16:12] Is that like a relatively dry guan? You like a relatively dry guanchali? Not really. No, it's it's it's kind of the texture of uh maybe a little bit firmer than panchetta than pure panchetta would be, but um you know you can actually start using it fairly after pretty soon after it comes off of uh cure and and hangs, like it it hangs and it just kind of gets a little bit better, still loses some moisture. But um, you know, if you're cooking it, it's still you can you can go ahead and use it.
+
+[16:39] I don't like it when they turn it into a like a board. I just don't I don't I don't roll it just like I don't roll panchetta just p just uh for uh ease of use because when you're slicing it then when it's rolled and it it's not you know solid frozen, it just starts unraveling and then it's hard to slice, so having it be in uh just a slab makes it makes it easier. Yeah, yeah. All right. All right, Quinn.
+
+[17:01] What were you gonna say before about what you cooked this week? Well, actually, I I I used some of my guanciali on Friday. I made a risotto, but with the flavor of a matriciana, so tomato, guanciale, a little white wine, and then finished with uh pecorino. It's pretty good. Yeah, good.
+
+[17:24] Nice. Uh and uh we did pizza on Sunday for my birthday. Oh, yeah, happy birthday. Yeah, yeah. Nice.
+
+[17:33] And how is how is the pizza? Also guanchali? That's God's pizza is guancially and eggs. You know, we had like eight types of cheese, and then uh three corn line of pizza with a big hit. With everybody, we had some greens, uh homemade sausage, crumble.
+
+[17:52] Uh yeah, that's pretty good. Uh, speaking of sausage, I was looking, because there's obviously in the on meat book a lot of sausage. Does anyone who eats meat sad when someone hands them merguez? I love merguez. It's so good, right?
+
+[18:06] So good. It's so good. Yes. That one, I'm I really love the merguez recipe in here. Um I always uh first time I had Merguez was actually like the D'Artagnan brand um burgues, and that's kind of that was kind of the benchmark for me in terms of like uh getting the recipe to taste like that.
+
+[18:27] Yeah, there was an old French guy who had lived in North Africa for a while, who used to work at the FCI, French Culinary Institute, back when I was there. And like every week or so he would just bang out a big, you know, a bunch of mergues, and everyone was like, yes. Because on French bread. You know, it's also one of those things that can tolerate overcooking a little bit. It's good.
+
+[18:48] It's a good product. I I'm gonna say this like lamb in sausage form, delicious. Yeah, it's e it's easy to uh control the gaminess, which I mean, I don't mind it, but that's what some people are turned off by. Yeah, speaking of gaminess, you're uh you uh say somewhere near the beginning of the book that you are a uh you're a fat on fat person when possible. Yes.
+
+[19:10] And you you quote uh, although it wasn't about fat, you quote your boy uh Patterson about uh as as using fat on fat when I say that, I mean like, you know, uh in a kind of non-biblical way, like cooking something in its own fat. I guess it's milk, you're not allowed to do milk and meat, but like uh, you know, cooking like a duck in its own fat, cooking beef in its own fat, et cetera, et cetera. It's reinforcing, reinforcing the flavor and doing everything you can to coax to coax what you want out of it. Yeah. Oh, hey, sorry, John, I skipped you.
+
+[19:37] What do you got this week? Nothing super exciting, just been dealing with more staffing issues. Oh, everyone loves a staffing issue. That's the worst. But yeah, you know, somebody accepted uh two jobs at the same time, and then after two shifts, decided she didn't want to work with me and went to her other restaurants.
+
+[19:52] So I thought that was I've never heard of that. That was a classy move. That's gotta feel good for a bunch of reasons. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's great.
+
+[19:59] It was great. It's gotta feel good personally and professionally. Yeah. I like when people need the spinoff podcast of staffing issues. Yeah.
+
+[20:07] Speaking of staffing issues, if if you don't want to talk about it, uh, Jeremy, I heard uh I'm sorry because I haven't been, you know, haven't been to your place in LA, but you're uh closing Birdie G's in December. Right. And I happen to know firsthand how hard it is to close any place, but also one that's like named after your family, it sucks. Yeah, I haven't told my daughter yet. Oh man.
+
+[20:29] Still trying to figure out how to do it. She's nine. Yeah, that sucks. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[20:34] Everyone else knows, but but her. Yeah, it's uh uh you know what the worst part for me. She's Bertie G. You know what the the oh, so she's also named after the the your grandma, Gladys? Gladys is her middle name, yeah.
+
+[20:47] The hardest, one of the hardest things is uh it's never the crew's fault. And then like here's something that people say about people who you know work nowadays, that they don't care about anything anymore, they don't care about business. But I find this not to be the case. I find that like good crew, which I've had the pleasure of only working with good crews, they care very deeply about what they're working on. And they take it personally when it closes.
+
+[21:12] So the saddest thing is like telling them that it's not, you know, it's not them. You know what I mean? It sucks. I say so. I'm sorry.
+
+[21:14] Yeah, we made sure to do that. And you know, after the after the meeting, you know, they were people were sad. They they weren't it wasn't about their jobs. It was they were just sad about it, and they were they were hugging me and you know, making sure I was okay. Um and you know, they they want to stay till the end, which is which is which is great.
+
+[21:36] So it's it's gonna be fun. It's gonna be a nice, nice few months to uh to to keep going. Yeah. Well, anyway, I don't know if I should have brought it up or not, but it just I feel anytime it happens, it I hate it. You know what I mean?
+
+[21:47] Yeah, I've never I've had restaurants close like after I left, but I've never closed a restaurant. So, you know, look at the the bright side, I'll learn how to close a restaurant. Yeah. Yeah. But look, when things aren't working, they're not working.
+
+[22:01] You have to take blame out of it. You know what I mean? I blame myself for like the last several years, but I I know that I couldn't have done anything. Right, whether it's money or partnership issues or whatever, like, you know, you have to you can't not blame yourself, but then you have to get away from it. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[22:16] Right. Anyway, sorry to bring it up. I shouldn't have brought it should have brought it down. And guys, I'm apologize for all the noise in the background. We have to keep the door open because I smell so much like a turpentine factory right now that I don't even yeah, sorry.
+
+[22:29] Okay. So by the way, you might be interested to know, folks, that I for craps for just for giggles, I decided to go on Chat GPT and ask it if there were any questions that I should ask Jeremy. And it it, by the way, almost nothing good. Great. Just like, so I'm not gonna ask any of those questions, but I will just throw these out there for what people said.
+
+[22:52] It was like Chat GPT is so here's the thing like it can do pretty complicated, weird things, you know what I mean? But then when you ask it for good questions, it's like, what's and this is actually not a bad question. What's the worst chef hack you see on social? But like anyone could ask that of anyone. What does that have to do with you?
+
+[23:07] Nothing. You know what I'm saying? It gave me almost no questions. It's not personalized. It's not personalized.
+
+[23:13] It is a good question. No. Although you are outspoken in favor of this chef press, which I've never used. Is it really worth all the money for them? They have the different weights and stuff?
+
+[23:24] I think so. Yeah. I love it. Yeah, I've used them forever. And um uh the uh the inventor, Bruce Hill, who's been a chef in San Francisco for a long time.
+
+[23:32] He he's the one who I s who I started seeing doing Hoshigaki every fall. Um, and he went really deep into it. So that's that kind of inspired me to try it out. Speaking about it, you you talk about a love affair with this make me love the persimmon because I just can't get myself to care enough about persimmons. Well, you gotta it's I tell people it's a lot of work to make something that tastes like a date already tastes like.
+
+[23:55] But it was a COVID project. You know, we it was it was fall of of 2020 and we couldn't have people in the restaurant. So I was like, I'm gonna do a small batch. Like I there wasn't a lot I could control, but I was like, maybe this, you know, I can I can coax and and nurture and take care of these things. So I did like a hundred um and they came out great.
+
+[24:15] You know, I would massage them. Yeah, yeah, tell people the general process. You take unripe uh Hachia persimmons. You can also do uh fuyus as well, but um traditionally it's hachias, the ones that you have to wait till they get soft to to eat or else they're too astringent. Um but you get them in unripe, peel them.
+
+[24:31] Um then you uh we we uh hang them from the ceiling and we do 1500 to 2000. They're everywhere in the restaurant, the dining room, the PDR in front of the kitchen. Um after about a week, you uh you give them a a really uh gentle massage really quick almost like you're giving someone a you know physical cough turn your head and cough kind of kind of little squeeze um and over time the sugars the sugars kind of break down the they kind of crystallize on the inside and and the outside and kind of forms this like sugar bloom that looks like the the the mold on salami um and yours have like a nice kind of crenellated look around the outside they're not like yeah I don't like to take them too far I like them to still be kind of jammy inside um so like right now on on the on the book tour I'm serving them everywhere I go but we have like last year's uh last year's persimmons which came out really good really sweet they didn't get a lot of uh sugar on the outside but um the flavor is really good and the texture is amazing um but yeah we started out with a hundred and then end up doing you know 500 the next year and then a thousand then two thousand and I think now we've got it down to like seven fifty it's hard to keep up with massaging two thousand uh persimmons every day especially if you have other work to do right you don't want to build a little robot massager plus my my tall sous chef left uh uh this last year so it's uh it spends more we have to spend more time on a on the ladder. I hate that because you're not are you one of those people who can jump a ladder. I can't jump a ladder.
+
+[26:01] They stay on the ladder and they just jump it. I don't do that. I don't do that because I don't like heights. I don't yeah I don't like flying I don't like heights. Yeah no hell no although you tell a fun story here's another thing it's kind of frightening you tell a fun story where was it what restaurant was it where you had to move the comfi back and forth?
+
+[26:17] Oh yeah, at Anson. Yeah, yeah so it's uh Charleston. Unrelated to Anson Mills, right? No, connected with uh the family who owns um uh Anson and some other restaurants own Anson Mills. Um owns you know, they had a bunch of uh farms that that grew that.
+
+[26:29] So Dave Robert, um I mean um Yeah, Glenn. Glenn Roberts was uh was the director of operations for the restaurant group um when I was there, and then he started taking on like he he got bit by the bug and he's was you know he's all in on on that. So we had a a mill in the in the restaurant. Mike Lada was the chef who has fig in the ordinary in Charleston, amazing chef. But we were kind of the guinea pigs for Carolina Gold Rice.
+
+[26:59] Um with uh what was that guy's name? The uh guy from the uh ag extension who was doing all of the uh seed work. Do you remember his name back in the day? Don't remember his name. Don Shields?
+
+[27:08] I don't think so. He was from anyway, he was from uh South Carolina, like some uh his Clemson, I think Ag Extension guy. Don Shields, no man, I don't know. Anyway, go ahead, sorry. Uh yeah, so that's uh where was I?
+
+[27:20] Uh and was it the original like real soft Carolina gold? Because I've only cooked it a couple of times. You love it or not love it? Like it. I love it.
+
+[27:28] I I feel like other people cook it better than I do. Um, but like Sean Brock can cook some amazing rice. Um but yeah, we we had these huge, you know, the uh plaques like the the huge uh aluminum uh rectangle contra uh tubs to hell. Yeah, that were you know had you know 75, 100 duck legs in it and you know, gallons of duck fat, and they it was filled up to to pretty much the top, so you would have to take it out of the oven without tilting it at all, and then walk down the line with it just like dripping on your wrist. And but it was the kind of thing where I wanted to be, I wanted to give it a try and do it, but I also was afraid to.
+
+[28:11] Yeah, because it's not safe. Right. So uh uh just as a test of the waters, have you seen the Canadian Chef PSA? Have you seen the Canadian job safety PSAs? Possibly.
+
+[28:22] I've seen some bad ones. So Canada, maybe 15 years ago, did a series of uh PSA PSAs, right? That's it. Where she says she's getting married. Yes.
+
+[28:30] Yes. You have seen it. Yeah. So I remember playing this for uh all of the students at the FCI once and trying to gauge who thought it was hilariously funny and who is shocked by it. Because I'm a hilariously funny, I think it's hilariously funny.
+
+[28:44] I'm I'm not easily shocked, but it was I mean, it wasn't graphic, you didn't see anything, but you can put yourself in her shoes and she's carrying a giant thing. It's not like confies, it's deeper, but in a giant stock pot. And much like what happened to me this morning, there was oil all over the ground that was not cleaned up. Probably much hotter than confit oil, because this was like drained deep fryer oil. Yeah, so she goes much like I did this morning, shoop.
+
+[29:12] But if you look closely in the PSA, her head, back of her head, like hits the wall door if she's going down, and then she dumps the pot all over herself. Again, half the people, hilarious. I'm in that category because I know it's fake. Mm-hmm. Half the people shocked.
+
+[29:28] And people are like, why are you showing us this? I'm like, workplace safety, man. Happens. Workplace safety. You do have to be safe.
+
+[29:34] I saw a guy the other day like shatter an entire rack of glasses at the eater event I was working this weekend. And I was like, this is why you don't wear open-toe shoes. There's this there's a thing that I see cooks do all the time that drives me crazy where they're cutting something big and they have, you know, their hand on the tip of the blade as they're pushing through. And I've seen people just slice their hand, like put a towel there, put a towel there, don't do that. Or going too fast with the mandolin.
+
+[30:03] Oh yeah, because you're gonna nick yourself eventually. But on the other hand, the guards are pain. Yeah. I mean no one uses it. Everyone throws them away when they when you get it.
+
+[30:13] Yeah. We we got my dad a bunch of um water gloves. Yeah, but then you don't have the dexterity. I mean, that's the problem. When you're doing fine work on a on a mandolin, you want maximum dexterity.
+
+[30:24] This is why the best move is to just eat the nubbin. But if you're doing too many, you can't eat them all, you know, at home anyway. I guess you could stockpot them in a restaurant. Oh, speaking of confie, I noticed a couple of things about your comfi recipe. One, when you're curing them, you don't let them get wet.
+
+[30:41] You keep them dry. You keep you keep your curing legs. I think it's overnight. You do overnight, right? You don't do more than overnight.
+
+[30:48] Overnight. Right. Don't you hate modern comfy recipes that are under salted? They're not real. Especially, yeah, I don't know, especially poultry.
+
+[30:56] Um, especially duck, if it's not if it's not cured, if it's not seasoned, it's it's just meaning it's like anything. It's it's just not good. Yeah. Anyway, so you cure it, but you cure it and let it drip during the cure because you really want it dry before it goes in the oil. And you think that that does that help more just that how do you how do you think it how do you think that's a meaningful step?
+
+[31:17] Because I noticed it. And also wrap that into your comfy question, because I think comfy's important. Um you cover it even though you cover it in fat. And I'm wondering w what the difference. I understand covering a pan to stop evaporation, but my impression was as soon as it's completely covered in fat, it might as well have a lid on it.
+
+[31:37] So speak, speak to it. Let me know. Well, I s I still find that they that they want to um uh they want to rise. They don't they're they they'll as especially as they cook, they'll come to the top um and then they won't be submerged. Um so I do uh I do a part a parchment, whether it's a round or or square, um, cartouche um on top to keep it submerged, uh and then foil to um keep everything in.
+
+[32:03] So what about I know why it's a bad idea to put a rack directly on the meat because it might stick to the skin, but what about the cartouche and then like a cooling rack? You think that would be a good idea? Definitely keep it submerged or is that too much? Sometimes uh actually when I when I poach things like the mortadella, um I'll have it in a deep uh a six-inch hotel pan of water with a rack on the bottom, then the logs of of mortadella, then a perforated, like a um a two-inch perforated hotel pan on top uh that weighs it down and then a lid, so I I can you know stick a probe thermometer through the perforated holes uh to get the temperature. So here's a here's a a trick.
+
+[32:41] Uh I I noticed that you're a fan of rolling things tightly in plastic, as all good people are. This is something that we used to do at the FCI all the day. But here's a a hack I learned from uh Erve Molavere, who is a chef that the FCI, he came up with this one. So you do your regular plastic wrap layer, right? Then he did a second thin layer, and in that thin layer, he put a bunch of butter knives.
+
+[33:04] And then the rolls just went boom, went right to the bottom. So you pick you put a rack in, whatever you're gonna poach off, and then all the rolls just went right to the bottom. You never had to worry about them floating ever. Wow. Smart, right?
+
+[33:16] Yeah. Yeah. Nice hack. As soon as he as soon as I saw it, I was like, where have you been on my life there, Vay? Yeah, it's always those simple things, Michael.
+
+[33:23] Yeah. Why didn't I think of that? Right. Because it's like the things that piss you off, food floating when you don't want it to float, it's things like that. Or sticking to the bottom.
+
+[33:31] Yeah. Either way is bad. It's like uh, yeah, especially like when you're frying things, sticking either not going under the oil, so you have to flip them a bunch of times, and they have that blonde line where it bathed too long on the one side, or sticking to the rack, either of which is a freaking nightmare. Speaking of frying, you have a sorry I'm all over the place, but my brain's a little scrambled with the with the smashing and and the and the oil. But you give a recipe for potato skins.
+
+[33:53] I have never been able to properly crisp up just the skin. There's always something not as good, but you say your recipe, people like it so much that you say it's paying the bills. So what is the secret to getting a good? I know you rinse the hell out of them, get the rest of the but what's the secret to a delicious crispy? Well, specifically, they I I I joke that they paid for the uh the yearly holiday party.
+
+[34:16] Um because you know, we would you know, we might make 45 dollars in sales on it a day. Uh and it's something that would have, you know, gone in the trash. But yeah, I just uh just run it under um uh underwater to get all the starch off. And I do a low, a low cook on them. I forget I honestly forget what temperature I do in the book.
+
+[34:35] Low enough so it doesn't burn. So you do it chip style. Yeah, not French fry style, chip style. Yeah, and and I've also seen people, I don't I don't like it, but I've seen people run hot water over uh whether they're doing potato chips or potato skins, um, so you almost cook them with the water and then they're very blonde, but I I feel like it washes too much flavor off of it. So you are just like my son Dax.
+
+[34:56] My son Dax, I was doing potato chip tests a couple of years ago, and I was just doing potato chip after potato chip after potato chip, and consistently he would choose completely unwashed ones. So when I'm making chips for him, I chip directly into the oil. So I just make sure the sugar content's not too high and my oil temperature is low enough that I can completely dehydrate them before they burn. And he consistently likes them better. He says they taste more like potatoes.
+
+[35:19] And you know what? But the really pale, you know, some chefs, it's like a a point of pride to have this like perfectly white pale potato chip, but I just don't think they taste very good. Yeah. Yeah. You know, the thing is like uh if you can somehow get potatoes that have been stored exactly the way you want them, they'll have a low enough sugar content, and then you can just do it without soaking the sugar out.
+
+[35:38] You know what I'm saying? This brings up a question, maybe that you can answer this. Um because the last few years I've you know, to uh I have a recipe for pickled mustard seeds in the book, but the last few years, they haven't been coming out very good. And and I had a I had a discussion, I we I just did dinner in Philly with um the chef from Iloo, Alex Kemp, and he was like, I I was doing pickled mustard seeds. He was like, Have you had a problem with those?
+
+[36:02] I was like, Yes. Me too. But not pickled, uh, pressure cooked. They used to work. They used to work.
+
+[36:08] So I used to pressure cook mustard seeds all the time in like a sugar vinegar mix. All the time. Pressure cook them, they get big, they pop like caviar. And then all of a sudden, I just couldn't make them anymore. They tasted bitter and nasty to me.
+
+[36:20] I don't know what happened. I thought it was just my taste buds changed as I aged. I thought it was something I was doing. It was like it was something that I could just mindlessly do, and now I just I haven't been able to do it in years. It was part of my standard repertoire.
+
+[36:33] You'll see in the in the photo, they're not very plump. Ah. What the heck could happen? What is it? Maybe they're old?
+
+[36:39] Only thing I can think of. This is bizarre. This is bizarre. Someone out there, if you look on the web somewhere, is your recipe for pickled mustard seeds? It's in here.
+
+[36:50] Yes. I didn't see that. Okay, so look at this. Someone else look at it and tell us what's going on because I want to know. And somewhere on the web, my old pressure cooked mustard seed recipe is there from like, you know, 15 years ago.
+
+[37:01] Why why aren't they good anymore? I'm so glad I this has been a revelation that I'm not the only one. Yeah. It's been frustrating me for years. Well, it's very frustrating when, first of all, something that you do a lot, all of a sudden you've lost the knack because you know, we all degenerate over time, obviously, but you wouldn't think something like that.
+
+[37:19] No. And you wouldn't you'd think that somehow your cook's mind could fix it. And it's bizarre, right? Mm-hmm. Wow.
+
+[37:28] Uh wait, I saw. Oh. I see I can't even. Oh, talk to me about your swarma. You you use someone else's shawarma recipe, but I've never made because I have had people ask me a million times, you got a good recipe for like a shawarma hero meat.
+
+[37:42] And I'm like, no. But you have one, so why don't you give the gist? Yeah, and this is, you know, the the kind of swarma that you would get. This is more like fast food swarma. And you brick it and slice it, so it's not a rotary situation.
+
+[37:54] Right. Could you rotary your recipe? Could you make it in a tube and rotary it? Yeah, you can make it in a log and and and and um and and do that. Um it's always been so I worked at this place called Eurowrap Cafe in uh in high school, and I I just I that's my one of my favorite meats.
+
+[38:10] Like my favorite cut of meat is you know fast casual uh swarma meat. Um good. But you know, I wanted to do it for the book, and then I, you know, I'm from Cleveland, my wife is from Cleveland, and we were back uh visiting. We went to uh this great butcher shop in Ohio City um called Ohio City Provisions, and they had they had a slab of of Euro uh swarma in in the deli case, and he gave me a slice of it, and like I ate it cold, and I was like, this is it. This is literally what I what I want.
+
+[38:44] So I was like, I'm not I'm not gonna bother coming up with a recipe. You've got it. So I traded him rose petal pie um recipe for uh for the euro. Yeah, talk to me about the rose petal pie because and I saw you mention that as well. What's so rose petal pie?
+
+[38:56] Is it literally like just sugar and rose petals, or is it actually like a fruit pie with rose petals in it? What's going on? It's a it's a hybrid of two classic Midwestern things. One is stained glass pie, which is uh kind of like a cream set uh jello with with like uh different uh chopped up jellies, like gelays inside gelatins, and then uh something called strawberry pretzel salad, which is like usually done in like a sheet, and it's a pretzel crust with like baked strawberries. So this is um uh in a pretzel crust.
+
+[39:28] It has uh a raspberry uh rose cream with um gelays of hibiscus, raspberry, and strawberry uh chopped up into it, so it's like a terrazzo uh effect to it. Um it jiggles really nicely. It was it I had a I had a a vision for it, but I didn't know how to make it. But my ex-wife um actually consulted on the desserts for Birdie G's. Uh she was my pastry chef at Manresa in Ubuntu.
+
+[39:55] Um so I described it to her and she made it, and um it's uh it's it was kind of my attempt to do like an Instagram dish because I've always just had things that were kind of sounds good though. It it is good. It's it's polarizing because some people, rose is something that can turn people off, and some people just don't like jello. Yeah. I think it's people don't like rose, even though they eat all right.
+
+[40:19] Like that and cilantro and lavender. Yeah, lavender I get. Now pretzel crust, is it just smashed up pretzels? Pretzels and butter. Yeah.
+
+[40:30] Well, except for probably not as chewy, right? Because uh Turkish delight's real chewy and the jello, hopefully is not not as chewy, but yeah, the rose. But the thing is you didn't you're not using rose water using rose, right? Because rose water, I can see how it's off blitz. There's a little bit of rose water in the um in the the cream that sets the the pie.
+
+[40:48] Uh and then there's candied roast petals uh kind of chopped up so it looks like they just kind of fell from the sky. You know what I love? Two things I love. I love pretzels and I love pie crusts. Never made a pretzel crust.
+
+[40:59] How stupid am I? I mean, I think you're pretty smart. Yeah. Maybe not the best bike rider, but yeah, well, uh that was not my fault, man. Telling you.
+
+[41:07] You're taking the side of those knuckleheads. No, no, no, no. Yeah. Jerks. Oh, uh you have a drink.
+
+[41:13] I should have put sand down on it. They should have done anything. They they were in the process of quote unquote cleaning it. You know, they're like, oh, we can cardboard. Close the bike lane.
+
+[41:22] Anyway, you know what I mean? It's like I'm sorry, this is New York City. You don't have time to sit around with your thumb up your behind waiting to clean it up. Close the bike lane instantly. Yeah, moves fast here.
+
+[41:32] And then for the guy to get mad at me and unclose it after I closed the bike lane so no one else will get hurt. It's like cutting your finger off in the kitchen and then your chef yelling at you for cutting your finger off in the kitchen. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe.
+
+[41:47] Two things. You have a non standard deviled egg recipe in here that is not a mayonnaise-based filling. It's like uh what is it? It's like it's cream cheese or sour cream. It's got a non standard devil egg with like.
+
+[41:59] It does have aioli in it. It has d and and in in part of it, yeah. Do you but it's is it cream cheese as well, or is it sour cream? Uh cream cheese. I've never put cream cheese in my devil egg.
+
+[42:08] Should I start putting cream cheese in my deviled eggs? Yeah, i it helps because the mayonnaise it has a certain lightness to it, but the the the egg when you add the the egg yolks into it, um even more egg yolks than the the hard boiled uh egg yolks, it makes it m really custardy and um more luxurious, I guess is is the word. So you over egg yolk your stuff. I nail it. I mean I mean like you're not.
+
+[42:32] I go more than most, yeah. You know, do you require more yolks than you do whites? Yes. And then do you have some recipe somewhere? Because I know you're not a waster where you sieve out.
+
+[42:41] Do you ever do the thing where you press the you press the whites through the sieve and you get the little piled up little pile of egg white? I used to love doing that. Yeah, you know, but then they clump together. But we we um we have a dish on the menu that uh has uh sieved egg on it, so we use that. Yeah.
+
+[42:56] Yeah. Or like uh I guess you have to you can't I've never cooked yolks separately and had them come out like a hard-boiled egg yolk. Do you ever cook the yolks separately and then use the what? Yeah, right? Why is that?
+
+[43:08] I always wonder why that doesn't work either. They're shielded. They have the the force field, maybe. Right, but you can't even if you break an egg yolk and then you cook it, it doesn't have the same granular perfect smash up deviled egg texture that you want. Yeah.
+
+[43:25] Wiley used to do that crap all the time. Um so yeah, they're buffalo deviled eggs. And fun fact for the photo, um I was uh someone had well, someone, I'll take responsibility for it. Someone had burnt all the the chickens, the crispy chicken skin, the crackling that gets uh uh showered on top of it. So I had to do um uh chopped up fried buckwheat.
+
+[43:48] But it looks like it looks like you know, it it passed the the vision test. Cheater, you're cheater. I like it. Cheated, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[43:54] Yeah, that's right. It's buffalo, so it's stressed out, man. Blue cheese, aioli, cream cheese, and they and the crispy chicken skin sounds good. Hello. That sounds like a good use for the crispy chicken skin.
+
+[44:05] Whenever, remember back in the early 2000s, everybody would remove the skin and then cook the skin separately, like between pans or in parchment, and then put it back on the chicken. And I never liked it as much as when it was just on the chicken. I prefer, yeah. I don't, it's pretty much the only thing I like the chicken skin. It's kind of like bacon.
+
+[44:24] Bacon, I'm choosy with what I put with bacon with because it takes over and everything tastes like bacon. And uh the the chicken skin can have that same effect. By the way, for those of you who don't have the book yet, you should go in Kitchen Arts and Letters, and if you're a Patreon member, you should use the Patreon code to get your discount on the book. The very first recipe in the book is a set-aside. And it's be like, I don't want to talk about bacon.
+
+[44:48] Here's my bacon recipe. Shut up, basically. Basically, yeah. That's what happens. So on your bacon recipe, two things that stuck stuck out were one, you're a skinless bacon man.
+
+[44:59] Is that because it's gonna get trimmed off anyway, or you don't like the tough thing on the edge, or it's just like the just the way you do it? I actually sometimes I do keep the skin on it. I I find that uh keeping the skin on, I think it does almost help help self-based in a way. So um I'm actually for keeping the skin on. And then you baste it in butter while it's smoking.
+
+[45:20] What does that do for it? Other than, you know, I'm sure I'm sure you keep the butter. I'm sure the butter's good. Just going for shininess. I have this uh does look like lacquer, by the way.
+
+[45:28] Yeah, I have this running inside. John, you can look at it. Inside joke with this chef uh Bo Schooler. He has uh restaurant in uh in Juneau. Um, but he does the most shiny glazed uh smoked salmon.
+
+[45:41] Um and I'm constantly just telling them it needs to be shinier and needs to be shinier. But he he's giving me some tips to get to get it uh to get it shiny, like adding a little bit of gelatin to the like the vinegar and sh and and sugar syrup and um going for glaze, going for that shininess. What restaurants? Next time I'm June, I'll go. In Boca El Lupo.
+
+[46:00] Okay. In the mouth of the of the fish, I'm assuming, not the or the wolf, in the mouth of the wolf? Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. Is there's that fish called oh that's just loo.
+
+[46:08] That's a good fish. I just went up to dinner at my loo the other day. Yeah. Nice. Uh all right.
+
+[46:14] So, uh, some more things. Give me your scrapple. Cause I I'm not I mean, a lot of us are, but gout aside, scrapple is a delicious thing. You have a I would say a relatively high rent scrapple, right? And so, like, I feel like that's one of those things that Americans just can't wrap their mind around it.
+
+[46:33] And I I forget, it's yours is uh 100% cornmeal, right? No, no, uh, no oats or anything in it. Right. Okay. Although my grandpa used to like it with with uh oats, and I think actually around your way is where people do that and call it goeta, right?
+
+[46:47] Around Ohio Way, isn't that like um but uh talk about your talk about your scrapple recipe and why people should be baking more scrapple? Yeah, I mean, everyone loves fried polenta, and that's basically it's fried polenta with just a lot of really good flavor in it. Joe, you got a ding for that? I need a ding for that. That was a ding-ding-ding, like that's it.
+
+[47:05] You know what I mean? Fried polenta. Fried polenta, planta plus. I've been saying this for years. Do you like it with maple syrup or do you hate it with maple syrup?
+
+[47:12] Uh I don't mind it with maple syrup. You know, it's like the whole breakfast plate, you know, as you have sausage and other things on the plate, but the you know, the syrup from your pancakes drips into your sausage and it's like perfect. Yeah, yeah. Uh all right. Well, I'm looking for the there's a couple of questions that I think you might be good at that uh Patreon people had uh asked in but while I'm doing that um oh one other thing your chicken your roast chicken which by the way one of the things in the book you say is just cook a bunch of stuff read a bunch of people like like learn don't necessarily take my recipes for for you know where and you you say there's a billion ways to roast a chicken which there are your way happens to be I think in terms of the preseasoning anyway like really good like the the citrus on the inside is a power move citrus and herbs on the inside of a chicken you're gonna roast if you don't do it you're just a moron.
+
+[47:58] Everyone's like the flavor's not going to go into the chicken you're like it absolutely does. It does yeah it absolutely does but uh you are a high at the beginning and by the way you also say in the very beginning that you're not a high heat type of fellow. So they're like you know we clearly have different cooking styles although at Monersa Kinch used to be high and out in out and out wasn't he? Yes that's that was kind of the a lampessard sort of thing in so yeah you put something in the oven that's what most of the meats I do style. But you talk about a love for a kind of m moderating temperatures uh as you're doing but in the roast chicken it's very high to get the browning going and to flash off because I think most people fail because they uh they it just takes too long for it to start getting the the right tackiness on the outside of this and then and then the thing is they can't get a good skin by the way.
+
+[48:48] Then they're trying to get it golden after it's cooked and then you just end up overcooking. Yeah nightmare. So uh you do very high heat at the get very high heat for about 15 to 20 minutes. Right. So I forget what temperature you drop it too, but there's got to be some magic temperature where the evaporation rate is enough so the skin doesn't sog on you.
+
+[49:06] Because that's the problem. When people drop it too low, the skin sogs. Yeah, I usually do two fifty to two seventy five for most. Whenever I'm doing that, that slow in and out. 275 to is is about the what I do.
+
+[49:19] Let me ask you a question, what you think? Because this is this is a theory. So I think there's a difference between 275 or two, let's say 250, because 250 is right on the edge, right? 250 is right on the edge. I think a lower powered, like let's say a brevel toaster oven, right?
+
+[49:35] There's a limit of how much water it can evaporate. And so I think a toaster oven might require a slightly higher temperature delta than a big old oven that has a lot of like a lot of space and a lot of stuff to evaporate the water off. Do you think it makes a difference or no? Like the the size of the vessel that it's in. Just the amount of oomph it has, because yeah, the size of the vessel it has in, because I think it's like you're gonna have more of a tendency to sog in a smaller thing unless you have the convection on it.
+
+[50:06] Yeah, but in a large vessel, if and if it's a good oven that hold that has, you know, consistent temperature throughout however, whatever the size is, uh it's gonna have more air circulation. It's gonna have more there's more room to breathe. Not that it's breathing, it's dead, but you get the idea. You hope it's dead. Uh I also noticed that you're a tie the leg man.
+
+[50:26] You don't like your legs free, you don't like your chicken legs free? You know what? I'm I'm all for it at home. I I think that's the the restaurant part of me that that's just always what I was shown to to to tie those together and that that's that's what it's supposed to be. Um sometimes it's hard to let go.
+
+[50:45] But it doesn't it doesn't really affect it. You don't think that like in the armpits it makes it like a little too blonde? Probably. Probably. I might I think I'm uh probably a convert with this now.
+
+[50:56] Well, if you do it at home, listen, because it's not actually that much work. Well, so what it means is that when you do it at home because that's the way you actually like it. Yeah. I think it also when it isn't trust, when it's cooked, it looks like a dead animal, more of a dead animal, like it's in rigor and it's a little bit different. That's fair.
+
+[51:16] Also, uh on poultry still, I noticed that you are not a crosshatch on your duck breast where you do do like low and slow and like render it out and take the fat away from it. Now you say you take the fat away, you think it helps it render, but probably also under like doesn't overcook it as much. Because I think, you know, Nils, my Nils Norrin, you know, from Aquavete and Red Rooster and all that was uh, you know, running the French culinary. He was always a hater of the crosshatch because he said it would overcook the meat underneath. But you do a single score, constantly removing the fat as it goes, and then here's the trick, John, you might like this, uses the scores as the slicing marks.
+
+[51:53] Yep, it's it's your guide to guide to slicing it. Yeah. You remember they ever used to watch The Simpsons where the doctor is trying to get uh Homer Simpson to gain weight so that he doesn't have to so that he can be on disability and he's and he he rubs the paper with the oil and he goes, This is your window to weight gain. I've I have not really seen the Simpsons. I've seen uh maybe a handful of episodes.
+
+[52:14] Yeah, it's good. That one's good. All right. And since you since you say that you are a brisket head and you do both corned beef and pastrami recipes in here, is there a favorite? Corn beef.
+
+[52:27] Really? Over pastrami. Yeah. Yeah. Smoked smoked meats, I have to I have to be and uh have to really be in a in the mood for it, or you know, maybe it's like barbecue.
+
+[52:37] Oh, really? Um I'm a pastrami guy. Yeah. But let me ask you this you have a corned beef hash recipe that you put in a waffle, and the potatoes aren't like the tiny, tiny cube style. They're more they're more strips, right?
+
+[52:47] Not strips, but shreds. And it's in a waffle iron, living that waffle life, which I appreciate. What about a pastrami hash? Would it work? Yes.
+
+[52:55] Not too much pepper? No. You like pepper. I like pepper. Yeah.
+
+[52:58] I love pepper. I know some chefs who don't. Another thing, a question. Sorry, random, but again, I'm high. Uh you like grill pans.
+
+[53:06] I've never convinced me that a grill pan is not terrible. I don't love grill pans, but um my wife does. All right. Uh I I it every time we use it, we have to open all the windows, it sets the alarm off, the the smoke alarm off because it just creates so much smoke. But um it's it's there as an option if you're not grilling, because I'm not you're not gonna want to set up your grill every night, uh, you know, for every recipe, and I I understand that.
+
+[53:30] So if you want it to be, you know, have like grill marks, the grill mark grill pan for that, but it doesn't to me it doesn't have any sort of special unique qualities to it. I guess my one of my problems with it is that in order for it to even be close to doing its job, you have to get it hot enough to burn off the seasoning, and then it's gonna rust. Yeah, and then you know, wherever it's not wherever the meat is not in contact directly with the pan, it's creating all this moisture that's rendering from the from the meat and then splattering with all the oil. Yeah. All right.
+
+[54:01] Now listen, I'm sorry to throw this on you because I didn't give you any uh what's it called? Uh, but you do mention um, which I think is true, and I think more people need to talk about at the intro of the book. One of the things you mentioned, and John has it now, so I can't quote it exactly, is like uh having kind of like a a mental go-to list or like a series of things that you have that you can work with, like building blocks for building ideas, and that all chefs have this, and that they I'm paraphrasing here, but that we all have these kind of you know, like you're saying you pickled mustard seeds, it's just something you have. In fact, the back of the book is all like the larder, like kind of these base recipes to have around so you can make things. So from Math Man asked this question.
+
+[54:42] Uh okay, trying to keep family fed while having a one-year-old and need some ideas. What are some pre-made sauces, condiments, additions to meals that can be made ahead that helps keep your family fed without resorting to other options that they can just have around all the time? Well, we have we have a pretty significant larder, and on vegetables had a large large larder as well. So there's in this book there's recipes for sungold tomato ketchup, uh stone fruit barbecue sauce, um steak sauce that's kind of a reverse-engineered A1, um, uh tiki sauce, which is kind of like a sticky like Mongolian barbecue uh Polynesian sauce. There's so there's there's a good amount of things in those that um they hold really well.
+
+[55:23] You can make them in you can make them in a you know a big batch for I guess for home a big batch would be maybe a quart. Yeah, um it'll last forever. It'll last forever, yeah. Yeah, and here's one that you might know the answer to. Now, John is uh Belgian, by the way.
+
+[55:36] I know you you did a stint in the Bruges. Yeah. Wait, but so what's it so the the what's the town you're in? Dan how do you pronounce the town that that the restaurant was in? I was in Bruges.
+
+[55:45] Oh, you're in Bruges? Mm-hmm. Oh, I looked it up the restaurant, and it I guess it's a small place. I was looking at it. I don't think it's there anymore.
+
+[55:50] Oh, maybe a place with the same name is uh maybe Snip. Yeah, it was open north of it. Bruges, Bruges is nice, it ain't no Ghent. I did not go to Ghent. Um there's lots of lots of lace.
+
+[56:02] Uh it's like the the lace, and it's like the Venice of of Belgium with all the canals. The mustard, man. The mustard in Ghent. I just remember the fries. Fries, and and that's when I started eating them with mayonnaise.
+
+[56:14] So well, it's just which is God's way. But uh here's the question. Does anyone have a good resource for the Belgian fruit technique in like specifically the time, the temperature, and the fry size? Fry size, I'll give you. It's between three eighths and a half.
+
+[56:28] Anywhere between those, any Belgian will will be okay with any size between those two things, which is what I don't know what three eighths is, but up to about 12 millimeters. Uh so go so go ahead. What else what else you got? You got some uh really what what sets apart the Belgian method is the double the double uh fry method of uh of low heat and then um and then high heat. So it's usually usually I do 275 on the on the low um on the low heat blanch and then uh 350 to 375 on the the picking up on the final fry.
+
+[57:00] Yeah. I've been working on it, I mean not for a while, but I was working on it pretty extensively. And I think first of all, the Belgians all use a very specific fry setup. It's like a kettle shape, it's like a bowl. The fryer's like a bowl.
+
+[57:13] You know what I mean? Almost looks like uh for those of you that ever used to have an old sugar bowl, you know what I'm talking about? A sugar, a sugar cooking bowl. Yeah, or just big vats of of fat. Yeah, and then like a counter that it goes out on afterwards, and then a two-level counter, like so that they can put the different fries in in the different zones where they are.
+
+[57:30] And they don't do a water blanch. I've always done a water blanch because I don't think I've ever had my oil temperatures low enough. Now, because Dax doesn't want me to wash my fries at all, I basically cut them, put them directly in oil, pretty low for a long time. Like my initial fries now, my initial fry times are up upwards of like 12 minutes. Wow, so really low.
+
+[57:52] Low, 12 minutes. And then the second fry. But that was so we'll get we'll get uh more more into it uh later. See if I have any other good questions for you. Uh oh.
+
+[58:03] Kevin, we'll talk about the uh the what's it called? The eggplant. You ever had this eggplant Mizunazu? No. Me either.
+
+[58:11] But now I've got serious FOMO. This is like it's a variety. Yeah, it's apparently this Japanese eggplant that'll like make us all wish that that's the only eggplant we'd ever had. You want to talk about your Magazine eggplant recipe while I'm sure. Uh so Merguez, uh we do it in coils in the in the book.
+
+[58:29] And you know, as a side note, every time I post a photo on Instagram of of a sausage in a coil, everyone just keeps commenting that that it looks like uh uh uh a pile of feces. Like it it's a it's ridiculous how many comments do it, but then I see other restaurants do it, and no one ever says a word. Are they meat eaters of people who are saying this to you? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[58:51] Who poops like that? I mean, you've got got to have a lot of roughage for sure. But no one poops in a coil. Yeah, I don't know. Even dogs don't poop in a coil.
+
+[59:01] They're just wrong. They're wrong, yeah. It's just yeah, they're just factually incorrect. All right, one more one more thing because I got 42 seconds left. Um, and I'm not gonna Patreon people, I'll I'll get to your questions next time.
+
+[59:12] Uh are we are we no tangent next time, John? I bel no, we've got uh KC oil from Dr. Desh. We'll get it going anyway. Listen, chicken Kiev.
+
+[59:22] You say you grew up with the box frozen chicken Kiev? Yeah. Give me a word on that in the way I've got 24 seconds on your chicken Kiev and the box chicken Kiev. Well, but what's the difference? No, like growing up with it and then making your own recipe.
+
+[59:32] Oh, yeah. I mean, I ate a lot of frozen food and and fast food growing up, so it was that and the cordon chicken cordon blues that you could put in the oven for 15 minutes and and they were, you know, I didn't know what what these things were, that they had like a history, but those things were just synonymous with growing up in the Midwest, you know, in a single mother household. East Coast too, man. East Coast too. Anyway, Jeremy, thanks so much for coming on.
+
+[59:56] Sorry I got you high. Come back anytime. Yeah. Cooking issues. Thanks for having me.
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+[0:17] New York City New Stand Studios joined as usual with John. How are you doing, man? Doing great, thanks. Yeah, good, good. Good opening.
+
+[0:22] Good to be here and not uh oily as all hell. Yeah, yeah, like last week. Significant improvement, yeah. Yeah. Although unfortunately you won't get to hear questions as though I was high from the funeral last week.
+
+[0:33] Yeah, yeah. Anyway. Uh got uh Joe Hazen rocking the panels behind me. Hey, hey, hey. Hey, and since I came in here hot and heavy, but not oily, we got a full roster on the phone?
+
+[0:43] Yes, we do. Alrighty, in the upper left-hand corner, we got Quinny Quinn McQuinn. How you doing? Hey, I'm doing good. Good.
+
+[0:50] And down there, uh holding down the Los Angeles area, we have Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing? Good. Good. And Jackie Molecules is gonna give us a little more, a little more China update, I feel, I hope.
+
+[1:05] Oh, yeah. Yeah. And today's special, special in studio guest, Casey Boyle from Doc to Dish Rhymes with Fish, the place where if you're in this area, you should be getting your fish from because they deal with both consumers and restaurants. How you doing? Good.
+
+[1:20] How you guys doing? Doing well. Uh for those of you uh listening on Patreon, we're back on our normal day-to-day, so hopefully you are. Call in your questions to 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507.
+
+[1:32] I know we got a lot of fish fans out there, so hopefully we get some people calling in. Uh, and if they want to call in, uh, but they don't know that they can join the Patreon, John. What should they do? Go to patreon.com slash cooking issues. Check out our different membership levels.
+
+[1:45] You get different perks at every membership level. Uh, one of the more fun perks is you get access to our Discord where you get to speak with the community of like-minded listeners and uh other awesome people like Kevin Young from Noma. Um and uh yeah, just a whole bunch of great people. So check it out, cooking or patreon.com slash cooking issues. Yeah, and if you're a cocktail person, like I said, I put a calculator on there that only uh Patreon members can use, and with that calculator and a refractometer or a density meter, if I you can figure out anything you want about the liquors that are on your back bar if you're a bar person.
+
+[2:20] Anywho, so uh here's the portion of the show where we talk about what's been going on over the past week. I'll I'll start. So last week, for those of you that listened to last week's show, uh I hit like an Exxon Valdez level for a street oil spill of heating oil, and it turns out stank up this whole studio, went home. My wife came home. My wife's like, You're an idiot.
+
+[2:44] You should have immediately like stripped down because it's toxic, right? So I'm so soaking in toxic crap. You know what I mean? And I don't have apparently, like if you're from Alaska or places where boats generally dump like gallons of crude oil all over the water, they make petro like petrol ban like cleaners. None of that works on on nothing you can get in New York City will clean this stuff out.
+
+[3:09] So I put all of my clothes, my backpack, my shoe. I threw the underwear away, but not the socks because they're darn tough. I have a lifetime guarantee on those things. Wash them, soak them first, then wash them three times in a commercial washer. Nothing.
+
+[3:23] Then soak them in a degreaser, wash them two more times in a commercial washer a little bit better. Put them in a closed room with an ozone generator, ran the ozone generator for two hours. A little bit better, still not good. So I had to dump because it stinks everything up. I had to dump everything.
+
+[3:40] Uh so the backpack, this is the story, this part I want to tell. This is a shout out to Peak Design. So Peak Design, who makes backpacks, they started for photography. People have a lifetime guarantee on their backpack. So I was really pissed that this thing I have a lifetime guarantee on, right?
+
+[3:54] At this point in my life, I buy stuff lifetime guaranteed. I want to buy it again. I walk in there, I'm like, you're not gonna believe this. Your bag is fine, except for now I can't use it because they gave me 25% off of the bag. Good company.
+
+[4:07] Yeah. Peak design. Good company. Anyway, all right. So that was uh, oh, and I had the last of uh God's tomatoes from uh Stokes.
+
+[4:15] And I went and bought so the two tomatoes, for those who don't know, the two tomatoes I buy are Aunt Ruby's, which are a green tomato, and the German stripes, and I think they're actually from the same person. Two delicious tomatoes, as grown by farmer Ron Benagi and family out of Stokes Farms, only available in New York City at the Union Square Green Market before noon, because they sell out uh on Saturdays. Otherwise, drive to Old Tapan, New Jersey if you have a car if you're one of those people. So uh on the Friday I went and saw a different farm. I won't name them.
+
+[4:46] They had the stripes and the rubies. I would try them. It's been like 20 years since I've tried someone else's. Nope. Nope.
+
+[4:53] Went back on Saturday, got the good ones last of the season. Anyway, all right, what else you guys got for the week? That's my week. That's my weekend review. What about your eggplant?
+
+[5:01] Oh, yeah. John got me some fancy eggplants. So give me the names of them again. I don't know that they were exactly correctly identified on the thing. So, like, name the farm.
+
+[5:09] Uh Suzuki farm. The purple one I got you was the Mizu eggplant. But was it though? Because it was more like shaped like a like a cannonball. It wasn't elongated at all.
+
+[5:20] Kevin calls the one that he was referring to, the Mizunasu. This one is just called the Mizu. So that this one was is purple, dense as all get out. Yeah. Dense.
+
+[5:31] Dense. And uh I tasted it raw, but that one was great cooked. Had great flavor cooked. I sliced it thin and it gets real meaty. It doesn't break apart.
+
+[5:40] Good. The white eggplant is the one that John said he ate raw, and it is slightly sweet and completely edible raw, although better when raw, I think without the skin. Skin's edible. Better without skin. But then I asked John the crucial question, which was would you eat it over a different fruit?
+
+[5:58] And he's like, no. No. He's like, but here's an eggplant you can eat raw. So I did my standard thing when I have an eggplant that tastes good and I don't want to gussy it, right? I sliced it then, soak it in a little bit of salt to draw out some, you know, whatever.
+
+[6:11] Although it wasn't bitter at all. I didn't need to do a salt soak on it at all because it was not bitter at all. Uh I didn't let it sit out to see whether it would darken and get all effed up, but I'm stupid. I should have done, I should have run a test. I should have left one or two slices out, not the stupid stunat, as they say.
+
+[6:27] So uh then uh on the air fryer, like great salt, pepper, little bit, a little bit of sugar, always and then like just like a mist of uh olive oil. Roast that sucker out at like you know, 400 and change for a couple of minutes, just a delicious. Maybe the best eggplant, maybe the best one. Oh well that I've had, but I haven't had necessarily the one that Kevin's but anyway. So there are eggplants out there, people that are beyond our standard, either like you know, what we call Japanese or Chinese or Globe.
+
+[7:02] There's more than these three or the tiny little Thai ones you get. In other words, there's there's a whole panoply of eggplant out there for you to exp one to explore. For anyone in the New York area, you can get that through Natura from uh Suzuki farm. Were you playing around with them, John, at your restaurant? No, because it's just not something that my clientele's gonna buy, unfortunately.
+
+[7:22] They're not gonna, they're not gonna pay ten dollars a pound for No. Eggplant, no, they're not. So at a f uh, what would the food cost be? So it's like it's up there with steak. I mean, not quite steak, but it's above chicken.
+
+[7:33] It's above chicken, yeah. Yeah, it's like some choice steak. Yeah. Yeah. It's at, it's at, it's at mid grade decent pork.
+
+[7:41] Yeah, that's true. I think all vegetables should be related. All fancy vegetables need to be related to their to their equivalent meat cost. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[7:51] Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. We've never had a non-parmed eggplant on Long Island, so it's never happened. It literally never happens at the beginning of time.
+
+[7:58] You go to an Indian restaurant and it's Baba Ganoush Parm. You see parts. Or not in the weirdest places. Bacon bar de parm, I mean. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[8:07] You know what I'm saying? Bacon bar de palm. That'd be actually, you know what? That wouldn't be bad. Like a grati-made vegan vegan barta.
+
+[8:13] Let's do it. That'd be delicious. On the beach. I uh I was having this conversation with Andy Ricker chef yesterday, uh, who's in town uh doing a pop-up at Mom tomorrow uh down uh on Forsyth Street, which if you don't know, it's the Vietnamese, right? Mom, yeah.
+
+[8:29] And uh they use the tiny tables that you would actually use if you were a restaurant in Vietnam. So when you walk down Forsyth Street, you're like, what is an Ikea kid furniture thing doing in the middle of the street? And why does anybody want to eat on four by the way? Foresight, this is my neighborhood. So I know of what I speak.
+
+[8:48] A crap hole of a street. Hey, that's the way it's supposed to be. Authentic. Okay, man. Okay.
+
+[8:56] I mean, the food, great. Uh food great. Yeah. But Forsyth Street? I mean, uh, you know what?
+
+[9:04] And I don't even know if you can play an illegal game of cards on that street anymore. What's the world coming to? If you can't get an illegal cash game on Forsyth Street, you know, while you're buying like plumbing fittings, it's not Foresight anymore. You know what I mean? Whatever.
+
+[9:18] Uh all right. So I don't know where that leaves us. So anyone have anything for the week? You know where you can play illegal card games for cash in the street, it's China. Yeah, well, you know.
+
+[9:34] So you're gonna move there? Is that the is that the is that the call? Oh god. No, no, definitely not. It was not easy, but it was amazing.
+
+[9:41] Um and just shout out to Rob Lex from the Discord who had so many helpful tips for Chengdu and Chongqing. Don't worry. Not easy to navigate. Um, but man, delicious stuff. I mean, there's like too much to go through.
+
+[9:56] I had too much food. Because it was Taiwan, Hong Kong, and China. And you know, all right, give us one from each. Give us three. Give us three, one from each.
+
+[10:03] Yeah, like a few things that like were of note. Uh first of all, my first stinky tofu in Taiwan, which really is stinky. I mean, when you're walking through the night markets, it's like very, very pungent. And it was hard to pull the trigger on it because of how smelly it was, but once it gets in your mouth, it's good. Yeah, it's amazing.
+
+[10:23] Yeah. I mean, it's just it's a lot out there in the markets because you know, there'll be like four or five vendors. Um, and it's just like exponentially stinky. You know what I can't you know what I can't wrap my head around. Did you have any of the bat nuts when you were there?
+
+[10:37] They're they're like those water chestnuts that look like Batman. No, no, I did not. You know why though? Not good. You didn't miss anything.
+
+[10:44] I'm don't worry about it. Oh, all right. Fair enough. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[10:47] The stinky tofu is so good though. I mean, the beef noodle soup, of course, like everywhere is amazing. The the noodles, the mopo in China, amazing, amazing. Um two interesting things in Chengdu that I I did do one of the Michelin restaurants, uh, much to the chagrin of some people who don't like, you know, the Michelinistas, as they call them on Discord. But I went to U Yuji Lan, which is like a two Michelin star place in Chengdu.
+
+[11:11] And um What's a two mixture star restaurant in Chendu look like? What's this sir table service like? A house, dude. We had like it was like they put you in a little private room and they close the door on you. And it's just like ye, you know, the two of us in a private dining room, basically.
+
+[11:27] Is it just me or when I'm in a private room, I assume I'm gonna get shot? Yeah, it was a weird feeling. But I think it's me. You know, it's like being in someone's house. It was cool.
+
+[11:37] Um two things I had that I hadn't really before, uh was like really like a full-on abalone dish. Which is a it it's a lot of flavor. Abalone in that entire region just kicks, and we'll talk about this maybe, maybe, but it's not from here though. But it just kicks the snot out of abalone that I've ever had in the States. It just beats the ever loving snot out of it.
+
+[12:03] It's just when you go over there and you have Able and you're like, holy God. It's so good. They have so many good ways. Is it just we've forgotten how to cook abalone because it's so expensive here and it's all like processed like through them through the nose before you get to it? I mean, like you go to Hong Kong, you get it off a boat.
+
+[12:21] They you know, you did you go to Hong Kong? Do you go to those places where you walk up to the boat, point at the fish, and the stuff you want, they put it in the restaurant and cook it? Although I don't like usually stuff that's that fresh, but abalone, oh yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[12:36] Yeah. Yeah. Incredi incredibly good. Um, other weird things I hadn't had before there were fish maw. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[12:45] Like bladders, I guess. Fish maw maw. I don't know. I think it's like grandma. Cram.
+
+[12:53] And then uh Imperial Bird's Nest was the other thing of dumb. What's up, Mr. Fancy Dan? Bird's nest. And now did you get the did you get the chummed up, like the chummed up reconstituted bird's nest?
+
+[13:05] It's made out of lesser birds spit and sticks, or did you get like the entire, like, you know, five people had to die to get three nests, like uh freaking like perfect, like reconstituted. You could see the whole nest in the soup with the rock sugar megilla. I more more so the second, yeah. It was a very expensive meal. Yeah, that's an expensive.
+
+[13:27] I made it I've only like the last course. I've made it twice. It's uh once as a savory, which is not true, and once with the candy rock. Yeah, and I was like, uh, that's where all that money went. And you know, even to make it yourself, it's fantastically expensive.
+
+[13:42] Yeah, you know what I mean? Just not rich enough to not rich enough to enjoy it. No. I mean, yeah. I also feel a slightly bad, I guess, to people and the birds, but it's more the money.
+
+[13:54] You know what I mean? Paying for the misery. You're paying for the misery. You know what I mean? It's a very kind of uh end of days kind of uh of food stuff, you know what I mean?
+
+[14:05] 100%. Yeah. Like a shark's fin, let's say, which I've never had. You know, and and the theoretically against. If someone served it to you, would you have it though?
+
+[14:13] I know Jack would. I mean, I've that's how I've had dog, yeah, so I probably would. Yeah. I would if you're in someone's house, why did John get no why did John get no flag for a dog, but I got killed by the dog? Because I am because I am irrational for not eating dog.
+
+[14:31] Yeah. You know what I'm saying? If I eat other animals that are on the same level as a dog, like a pig, then it is my sentimentality that is causing me to not eat the dog. Whereas, which is, you know, a weakness of mine. Whereas the whale is a totally different thing, dude.
+
+[14:52] You know what I mean? Not the you brought it back, by the way. You brought the whale back. I did, I did. Yeah.
+
+[14:59] Oh god. By the way, fruit game, fruit game in Taiwan. How ridiculous is the fruit game in Taiwan? Oh my god. Yeah, insane.
+
+[15:06] I when I went there that was insane. I was not expecting the fruit to be so good. I was like, oh my god, fruit's so good. So good in that part of the world. Fruit's so good.
+
+[15:16] Yeah. Although, again, Andy Ringer yesterday was like, you know, you're gonna come to Thailand if you like fruit. Because he hasn't talked like that. But uh, what about you, Stas? What do you got?
+
+[15:28] I was gonna say that I thought that you were gonna say that they gave you the backpack for like free. Not 25% off is not that much. It's it's it's a substantial discount when what they owed me was nothing. So it's a lifetime guarantee, but the there's nothing wrong with the back other than it stinks. They can't be like, hey, dude, you smell real bad.
+
+[15:51] What if I just smelled real bad and they were like they were like, you know, uh, I needed a new backpack every month because I stink so hard. They'd be like, no. You know what I mean? Yeah, I don't know. I guess so.
+
+[16:03] But some companies give up their lifetime guarantee, like Ray Ban. Crap on you, Bauch and Loam. You got sold to Luxotica. Not a terrible company, but they no longer have a lifetime guarantee. You can't, you can't go to a concert, throw your Ray Bans on the ground, smash them with your Doc Martins, pick up the husk, send it back to them and get a new pair anymore.
+
+[16:22] Hell. Anyway, you're saying I was gonna say, uh, this is a question for John, because Dave and I talked about this over the weekend, kind of. And I'm not gonna mention any names, Dave. Jeez, Louise. But John, if you invite somebody to your restaurant, a friend to come and eat, do you charge them full boat?
+
+[16:42] Yeah. Do I charge them for everything? You've invited them. Everything. You have invited them.
+
+[16:48] You have said, come to my restaurant. I would not charge them for everything. There'd be a bunch of freebies, but I would definitely charge you for something. Right, but you wouldn't be like full boat. No.
+
+[16:56] If you if if you're like literally twisting someone's arm to come into your establishment, you're not a dude with a sandwich board like in Randos. You're twisting a friend's arm. You know what I mean? You charge them full amount? No.
+
+[17:11] Do you like upsell them at the restaurant and then go full boat on those folk? I'm trying to keep my language clean here. You know what I mean? Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, what?
+
+[17:20] Yes, again. Yes, again. Happened to someone else I know, bartender. Happened to someone, and he was like, I didn't have a thousand dollars burning a hole in my pocket. He's like, I could have had hot dogs.
+
+[17:34] I could have had I I I could have had a beef sandwich. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, that's not cool. You know? I have to say, if you're not rich, most of the time you're fine with the beef sandwich.
+
+[17:44] Am I right, Stas? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Thousand dollars just like radioactively beating through your pants into their into their coffers.
+
+[17:58] Well, listen, people, this is the etiquette. First of all, I understand that I'm old and that the days of like the massive comp and the days of like the way that it used to work, they're over. I get it. You know what I mean? But on an invite, you can't, you can't, especially if you have a fancy place, you can't just like rake them over the coals, dude.
+
+[18:19] You can't make someone, you can't make guilt someone into spending let's say your restaurant is normally $300 a head plus liquor. Let's just say that, right? And you come you're like forcing someone who doesn't have a lot of money to come in, and you're like, well, I'm gonna charge them for the meal that they're already gonna have if they come into my restaurant. They're now out like four or four fifty ahead with wine and tip. It doesn't matter that you've comped them a hundred dollars worth of extras that they didn't need anyway, because you're twisting their arm into spending four hundred and fifty dollars a person that they didn't necessarily want to spend because they feel obliged to you.
+
+[18:58] It's bad etiquette. But I think I would also expect that going into that kind of a restaurant, knowing, you know, like tasting many that they're gonna be. But if they say, hey, yo, oh, you know, me know you come in sometime and we'll, you know, have a good time, that's fine. But then don't don't go after it. Yeah.
+
+[19:13] Yeah, 100%. You know what I mean? Yeah. Stas, I think everyone's in agreement. What do you think?
+
+[19:22] I think so. Yeah. Yeah. It's just not a it's just not, it's just, I think, I think a lot of people, especially fine dining, they it's kind of like uh they lose sight of that people don't necessarily have the money to spend at those hours. You know what I mean?
+
+[19:38] It's like uh anyway. I mean, like for On the other side of it quickly though, like the annoying thing, and I've seen this happen, is if there's a new trendy expensive spot and someone is like sort of friends with someone there and they're like, Oh, I'd really love to come see you, I'd love to come eat there, and then get disappointed there's no comp. That's on them. No, no, that's on them. F you should you should expect it's like expect nothing, right?
+
+[20:02] Expect nothing as someone seeking. But it's also bad etiquette as a giver. That's why when you get the full bow check, you can't be like, what the w what? You know what I mean? Uh yeah, yeah, but don't expect anything.
+
+[20:20] But it happened a lot at the other network, you know. Yeah, you know what I don't you know what I hate? I hate the hell out of this too. I hate this trend where instead of comping industry people who are the ones who need comps, no offense to non-industry folk, but like it's the industry people that typically don't have the money to necessarily go out at the places where they work, right? They used to get more comps.
+
+[20:44] Now it's more instaweasels who get comps. The worst. And instaweasels, don't they have the money? That's the worst. That is the worst.
+
+[20:51] I mean, I get that it's business, but I mean to hell with that, man. Some things are better now, and some things are worse. You're right. You know? Uh you take the bad, you take some more, you take it up the yeah, the facts of life.
+
+[21:06] Anyway, uh all right. So uh Quinn Fish. Quick yeah, quo oh Quinn, Quinn, Quinn. What do you got, Quinn? Uh I don't got too much.
+
+[21:14] My uh dad was uh out with a hand surgery. I didn't do any big projects, but I made a nice uh real toast yesterday. My dad is getting better for he's already picking up random foraged legumes from people around town. And uh over the weekend I made a nice uh you know, oats prepared like a risotto. That turned out really good.
+
+[21:44] Wait, oat zoo, did you say oat zoto? Did you just say oat zoto? Yeah, oat zoto. Oh geez Louise. Oats prepared like risotto.
+
+[21:54] Oh my goodness. What does that even mean though? Like, so you had oat groats. You had oat groats, right? Yeah.
+
+[22:01] Now, were they pearled or they're not pearled? I don't think so. Like you would know. Okay, so they had the bran on them still. Yes.
+
+[22:13] Alright. On what planet? What was what what was Odo on earth have you ever had with with rice that was still in the husk dude? Well, still with the brand, not the brand. So you've got uh like uh so you par fried it in oil, you par fried it in oil or butter and then and then kept on adding stock to it, right?
+
+[22:36] Is that what you're saying? Liquid, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So another issue with oats, and I'm asking, I'm not saying, I'm asking, is that they are soft as hell, which is why it's very hard to mill oats into a flour, and it's much easier to flake them. And by the way, anyone who can hear me who has extra money and space in their kitchen, freshly rolled oats are ridiculously good.
+
+[22:58] Like the smell in your kitchen when you freshly roll oats is like you're like, oh my god, oats. For years I'm like, oats, they're fine. Oats. They're there. You know what I mean?
+
+[23:11] But when you mill them, oh anyway. So uh it just sounds like a savory oatmeal. Which the with it? Oh, he just busted. Joe's just busting you.
+
+[23:21] Yeah. Savory oatmeal. But what's wrong with that? I like savory oatmeal. Well, that's the different thing from risotto, though.
+
+[23:28] Like, was there the was there Nastasia, what's the word for the little nerve that runs down the center of the rice when you do it right? Oh God, I don't remember. Oh it's not Kyoto or something like that, is it? C-H-I-O-D-O. Uh anyway, was did you have that little nerve running down the center of the oatmeal?
+
+[23:47] But how can you tell the oats are so soft? Yeah, no, I didn't quite get that. Yeah, yeah. What but you like the flavor? I liked.
+
+[23:56] Was it wait, what was the flavor again? Chick was it was this a mushroom style, chicken style. Uh no, I went a pretty different uh flavor profile. We had some really nice carrots from the CSA box. Okay.
+
+[24:14] So it was like silver cooked carrots and onion as the base aromatic, and then the oats. Fried that off with a bit of butter, and then uh just water as the base sort of cooking liquid, and then finished with milk, and then uh finished with a smoked cheddar, actually. Okay, so I'm gonna tell all of your Italian friends that Quinn makes his risotto with water as the as the whole point look, I get it. Some of it's the creaminess, right? Some of it's the creaminess, but like a lot of it is the concentration of flavor, which is why you can make it a lot easier if you just hyper concentrate your liquids before you make the risotto.
+
+[25:02] Shh. Shh. Anyway, but like uh all right, but you enjoyed it? Cheddar risotto, man, cheddar water risotto oak man. The carrots are really good too.
+
+[25:14] Uh hey, listen, I appreciate a carrot, and it is true, I believe, that northern latitude carrots possibly, I'm not an expert in this, but I believe that it's possible that northern latitude carrots are better than more southerly grown or more central latitude carrots. Because the best carrot that I've ever purchased was from uh the northern Vermont, yeah, Pete's Greens. And uh he said that you can make them even better than he makes them if you are willing to mound up enough earth on top of the carrots so that they will never freeze and then keep them like into the winter. He says they will continue to get even more ridiculously good, but he doesn't have the he can't upcharge enough to guarantee to to be to pay for the amount of dirt he would have to dump on top of those carrots to get them into a frost-free situation. But I uh, you know, I believe you that your carrots are good up there in the because what are you you're even with uh if you were to draw a globe line around, what where are you?
+
+[26:15] You're you're somewhere close to like Maine or something, aren't you? Uh yeah, it sounds right. Yeah. Because I don't think it's necessarily a temperature situation. I think it's a like a day, day-night garbage along with temperature.
+
+[26:30] Who knows? Who knows? Somebody does, just not me. You know what I mean? Somebody knows, just not me.
+
+[26:36] I just know the kick the carrots are good or bad. And by the way, can we all agree a parsnip is a BS carrot? Agreed. Yeah. 100%.
+
+[26:44] Yeah. I mean, because when have you ever had a parsnip and you're like, oh my god, thank God this is not a carrot? Never. Never. Never.
+
+[26:54] Never. It's like uh, you know, no, no. It's they're good. Right? I'm mad at them though, you know.
+
+[27:01] I'm fine. Yeah, I'm fine. Someone's like, hey, we're having parsons. So I'm like, okay, they were out of carrots. Okay.
+
+[27:08] You know what I mean? Like, anyway. Yeah, yeah. Uh unlike, like a turnip has like, I know they're unrelated, but like in my mind, like whatever, whatever. I'm not even gonna get into it.
+
+[27:19] Okay, sock to dish. Now, correct me if I'm wrong. They're gonna explain this whole thing, but like it's only been since the pandemic that you've also been docked a restaurant dish. It used to just be consumers, right? Yeah, well, there's been sort of three distinct chapters.
+
+[27:34] Company started in 2012, which was direct-to-consumer, country's first uh community supported fishery. So we all know CSAs, right? With veg. The idea was to you know source what's seasonal and have weekly shares to local residents of the East Under Long Island. And it was a very, you know, it was a great success from 2012 to 2015.
+
+[27:52] Dan Barber caught wind of the project, helped us to launch the first restaurant supported fishery in the country. Um, and from 2015 through the beginning of the pandemic, we were serving sort of the Uber fine dining world, we know with weekly shares. It was like, you know, 50 to 100 pound increments of whatever was hyper-seasonal. We had, you know, winter, spring, fall, summer uh shares, and you know, it was uh it was great, but uh during the pandemic went uh went dormant until we we took it over. Nice.
+
+[28:14] Now uh so for those of like let's back up a little bit. First of all, I'm gonna embarrass total embarrassment. I've never been to Montauk. What? I've never been to Montauk.
+
+[28:29] Spent all my summers in the Cape, you know what I mean? So not the same, but you know, similar waters. You're one side of the fence to the other. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[28:36] So I've never been to Montauk because who can breathe that traffic? It's freaking nuts. You know what I mean? Love Jaws the movie. Come during the offseason.
+
+[28:43] Although I think it's real. I know, same with the Cape. Yeah. Who like, you know, who who wants to go to a beach when there's people there? Yeah.
+
+[28:50] Ridiculous. Uh now September through June, it's the best place on earth. You know, July and August is pretty brutal. And also, I have to say, like, my family, uh, my my stepfather, you know, he only likes three and a half things. My mom fishing, wine, and used to be cigars.
+
+[29:08] So there's the only things he likes. But surf caster only. So he never, it's always like either hang out with him on the beach at the zero in the morning, no boats. He doesn't do boats, which is weird. You know what I mean?
+
+[29:16] He's not commercial though. Yeah. You know, he's crazy good at it though. Yeah, Montauk's the surf casting capital of the world. Well, you know, don't tell him that.
+
+[29:25] Because to him, it's like, you know. Oh, I know. We got some major beef with the uh the mascot. He's like Boston Beach and like, you know, Newcomb Hollow and like you know, uh Race Point and all those garbages up there in the Cape. Anywho, it's similar water though, right?
+
+[29:37] Yeah, similar enough. Similar enough. So I've never been to Montauk. It's an embarrassment. Uh, but this started out with just like a group of fishermen doing this, and now you have like a roster that's like like long, right?
+
+[29:49] Not huge, but long. Yeah, I mean, we source from with a couple hundred different boats, you know, in Montauk and throughout Long Island, and have expanded our sourcing radius, the goal poster now, sort of Maryland to uh to Maine, right? Oh, so that's where your crab is coming from from May from Maryland? It depends on which crab. The blue?
+
+[30:05] Uh the blue crab is depends on which blue crab is. Because blue crow claw is the same as blue crab from Chesapeake, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Same thing. We don't really have a tremendously large, you know, um commercial, you know, uh uh crab fishery on Long Island.
+
+[30:18] You see sort of bits and pieces, but it's mostly bycatch, but the industrial stuff is you know primarily coming from the Chesapeake, which is still relatively small scale compared to like the Carolinas or operations in the Gulf, and then now the vast, vast, vast majority of crab you see on menus is coming from Indonesia. Yeah. Yep. What variety are they shipping out of Indonesia? Same.
+
+[30:37] I mean similar species. It's you know, one one step removed from blue crab, but uh, you know, close enough to blue-ish crab. Exactly. Fluish crab. Blue adjacent.
+
+[30:46] Flu adjacent. Yeah. Uh all right, so where was I? Where's I going with this? Oh, so you have this uh growing roster of uh fishermen who are doing this both directly to restaurants and to people, but I think what most people won't understand is how much time and BS is being bypassed by that.
+
+[31:08] So when I went on your website and I looked at the general chain, which is quote unquote efficient from an industrial standpoint, to make sure that every human on Earth can get hit with a particular fish, right? So it's efficient for doing that. It's efficient for getting a any particular fish to someone in Topeka, but it's incredibly inefficient based on you happen to live where the fish are caught. You want to describe the difference in the systems? Yeah, I mean it's I don't even know where to begin.
+
+[31:36] It's uh it's a it's a huge difference, right? Sourcing directly from the boat versus sourcing, you know, directly from um, you know, external sources. Um but you know, look at the end of the day, you know, uh for the last couple of years I've had an office at the largest commercial fish stock, you know, uh uh in Montauk. Uh it was a tremendous advantage to be able to see, you know, boats come in, get the first pick of what's coming in, um, to be able to talk to fishermen about what's coming next to next to talk about weather. Weather has an unbelievable impact on supply, which has a supply, which then has a um huge impact on price uh and availability.
+
+[32:10] So, you know, having an office at the dock has you know life-changing consequences for for our chefs, but also allows us to have you know sort of real life interactions with fishermen and have you know sort of a bridge between fine dining and between fishermen, really. That's what's been missing. You know, chefs work a hundred hours a week, fishermen work a hundred hours a week, and there's very little known about each other's lives. You know, to be able to speak fishermen and fine dining is kind of a you know interesting hat to wear, and that ultimately that's where our value add was, you know, as the years went on. Now do you only do human being shares out there or do you you do human being shares in the city?
+
+[32:46] We don't do human being shares at all anymore. Yeah, we we've evolved past that. We our business on the restaurant side has just been overwhelming. Right. Uh so we're just trying to keep our head above water, so to speak.
+
+[32:56] Making a wave when you can, temporary layoffs, good times. Uh so okay, so from a restaurant perspective, is it's it's still share-based? Or is it just cash? So we relaunched April of 2023, uh, following the pandemic, and we initially tried to institute, you know, the the get what you get model, you know, when we relaunched, right? Don't get upset.
+
+[33:19] A lot changed after COVID, right? You know, your fish cutter of 22 years moved on and is now working at, you know, wherever the case, right? Well, what is that case? What are they doing? Like what are they because it bar is the same thing, bar and restaurant, like all these people just moved on.
+
+[33:32] I mean, it seems like a third of the staff at least, right? So restaurants were a lot less equipped to be able to deal with, you know, cutting whole fish, but they're also way more margin conscious from what we saw pre-pandemic. So the combination of which, you know, made us, you know, really have to be a lot more flexible and think on our feet. So we're like, okay, we're gonna publish, you know, uh, a weekly product list, we're gonna deliver once a week, and then once a week wasn't enough. So we're gonna deliver twice a week.
+
+[33:56] I think it was Tuesdays and Fridays, right? And you know, fast forward four months, you know, later we're delivering six days a week, you know, we're up to the city. It's all a matter of getting your volume where it needs to be. But it comes, it's uh you know, it's a double-edged sword because you have to be thinking about sourcing the entire time, right? So then you have to expand your sourcing radius, and then you have to think about logistics, and it's all a snowball effect, right?
+
+[34:17] Ultimately, the bigger you get, and it's a little counterintuitive, the better you can service your restaurants because you have greater buying power, which means you know, more affordable, you know, product. But then more importantly, on the fisherman's side, you can actually buy whole boats or you know, uh be able to monetize more of the catch they're bringing in, you know, in the buy catch realm. Right. Well, let's talk to that, because I think that's the most important and kind of most fun thing. Because I'll preface this before we even get into it.
+
+[34:42] I looked at your um product list, and I'm embarrassed to say most of these I haven't cooked ever. It's great what they offer. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[34:50] Yeah. So let's talk about the diff first before we get into that, the difference between a what we would consider normal, which is demand-based. So I want orange ruffy until they're everyone is dead. I want to buy orange ruffy until they have fished out the ledge in wherever it is off the coast of you know, in the South Pacific, until the every single one of them is dead, right? Demand-based versus supply-based.
+
+[35:14] Here's what we're getting. Why don't you learn how to cook that? And you want to talk because that seems to me to be the major shift that you need to make to make this work, right? Yeah, absolutely. And that's unfortunately, you know, Americans are pretty bad fish eaters.
+
+[35:28] Um, we kind of point our focus at one fish, hammer it out of existence, and then move on to the next, right? And uh, you know, a big part of what we're trying to do is diversify uh, you know, that's uh that program we offer a weekly buy catch box, which is more of the traditional Dr. Dish model. It's a get what you get box of the weird local thing that doesn't see the light of day. Wait, but that's for restaurants?
+
+[35:50] Yeah, John, get one for me. How much they cost? 50 bucks a week. It's like nothing. Come on, we're doing it a cost.
+
+[35:54] Yeah. But it's ridiculous. Yeah, it's all the weird crap that never sees the light of day. So, like spearing these tiny little uh, you know, bait fish. I saw them look, what the hell, what the heck is a spearing?
+
+[36:02] You can't even look it up on the internet. Yeah. Yes, you can spear fish on Long Island. I'm like, oh, they're they're I mean, that's beautiful. My kid, I have a you know, two-year-old son who was crushing them at my friend's restaurant on Shelter Island.
+
+[36:16] Shout out to Leon's 1909, and they were can you pan can you pan them and pull out the bones like a sardine? No, you don't have you can eat them whole. Oh. Yeah, they're tiny, tiny. Yeah.
+
+[36:25] Like half an ounce each. Yeah, all right. Yeah, like smaller than my pinky. Yeah. But but not caught with a spear.
+
+[36:33] No, no, no, no, no. They're tiny little bait fish. But you can cure them. I mean, they're there's a million names for them. Well, speaking of which, you gotta get in touch.
+
+[36:40] I forget this guy's name, which is stupid because I'm stupid, but he does main buycatch stuff. He has have you heard of Main Garam? I have, yeah. Have you had a product? I have not.
+
+[36:50] It's real good. And he's right now using eel guts. So he's getting all the eel guts from the processing stuff and doing a fish sauce with eel guts and it tastes like Sally Granger's garum it's got it's got that canned canned meat ishiri style like gut based fish sauce taste but uh is he doing that with freshwater eel it was a American anagi in Cambridge but so I don't know I don't remember exactly but he gave me a bottle and I was like yeah I support this but like imagine if you got someone like him in get get some value added out of the out of the yeah and there's endless pop you know potential you know and you can have different verticals right you know like couvets like wine right yeah yeah you have your spearing vertical you have a skate you have your monk t like this I mean there's so much waste when it comes to fish and byproduct of fish that it's like the possibilities are endless. It's pretty easy. Yeah anyway so you should uh I'll try to find the guy's info and we'll get you two together because it is with freshwater yeah yeah they work with American anagiol you guys work with yeah yeah great supplier all right cool uh all right so uh yeah so getting people so 50 bucks what like which one of the weird fish because there's so many weird fish in your books dude I think the buy catch box for up to you know 20 different species you know tomorrow we're doing uh uh American dabs um which is like a sand dab the little guys no they're these are a little bit bigger they're about a pound and a quarter each uh it's similar to like a flounder small fluke but it's uh you know we have endless varieties of flat fish that never really see the light of day and usually you know dabs almost always end up uh you know on the you know Asian menus and like it it's just I can't even begin to this you know I would say over a hundred species that we source are you know very rarely see the light of day in menus in New York City.
+
+[38:37] Yeah. Which is kind of what got me into this and you know to begin with. All right, well, let's let's let's go through some of these. Uh so I remember once, once years ago, I was on a boat and they caught a whole bunch of sea robins and just freaking you know, tossed them back basically dead. No one, how do you cook a sea robin?
+
+[38:55] So I mean don't say anything's poor man's lobster. If someone says texturally, it is similar to monk and it's a little firmer. Um but uh Dina Lippman, who's a mate on a boat uh out of Shinnecock, uh has a really cool of cutting them so you can you know sort of peel off the whole thing and you have a kind of lollipop. If you ever ate blowfish, it's kind of like you know, it's like a giant blowfish tail. Our blowfish is not poisonous.
+
+[39:17] No, yeah, exactly right. They're not. Huh. Yeah. So you all uh is it similar?
+
+[39:21] I mean, I've never had the I've never had the Pacific Fugu poisonous one. Is it similar in flavor just without the poison? Exactly. You can get it, and then but you have to get a different poison. If you want to get a neurotoxin, you have to go elsewhere.
+
+[39:35] Yeah, we'll have to yeah, serve as a supplement or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just we can buy it in pill form. You can buy tetrodotoxin, I'm sure, yeah, as just like a a supplement and then just lay little a souson, like a microplane. These we'll do like a tetrodotoxin batarga.
+
+[39:49] Yeah. Although if you cure it too long, you know, it will uh it goes away. Which in fact, if you take the poisonous roe from from uh uh fugu and you cure it for two years, it's no longer poisonous. So you gotta get it just right. Yeah, it's all about titration.
+
+[40:04] So but blowfish is a fantastic example. That fish is really only around for like seven, ten days each year uh in the spring. So usually last week of May, first week of June, we'll see them show up in the Peconics for a really, really quick shot. Um maybe they appear for a few days in the fall, but it's it's a great example where we have our finger on the pulse. I'll get a call from our bayman, you know, in Springs, New York, right?
+
+[40:26] So on the the north side of Montauk. Um and they're they're bonkers, which is its own really cool subset of fishermen. They're 15th, 16th generation fishermen um from Long Island. Really, really cool group of guys. Uh but they'll call me, they'll let them let me know when they're in, and we have them when no one else will, right?
+
+[40:42] So they know that we like all the weird stuff and that we'll move it to our fine dining community, and that's you know, it really helps to shine a spotlight on all the diversity that we have, you know, uh in our backyard here. And you have puffer and blow listed separately, but that's the same fish, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean uh puffer's kind of a general term, but yeah, there's yeah, very similar.
+
+[41:02] Yeah. Okay. Now, uh talk to me because uh Jeremiah at uh my restaurant, he buys the Long Island uh the red shrimp. Now that is only recent or they always been there, they just haven't been caught. Is that a global is that global warming win?
+
+[41:14] No, no, no, no. They've always been there. So this is you know one of the stories I tell the most, right? So when when we bought the company and relaunched it, I'm down at the dock, right? And I'm talking to the guys, and I see a couple boxes of shrimp at the dock, and you know, I've grown up fishing my whole life on Long Island, and I'm like, guys, you know, what are these?
+
+[41:29] They're like, oh, these are our shrimp, they're no good. I'm like, I'm like, no, no, no, no. Those are those are great. But they are used to like if they send a couple boxes to the mark market to the Fulton Fish market, you know, they might get, you know, a buck or two. And I'm like, oh my God, this is this is huge, right?
+
+[41:45] And then, you know, fast forward a couple weeks later, you know, we gave out samples to a few dozen restaurants. We have an article, you know, in the New York Times and you know, eater and whatever, and it's like it became our biggest seller, right? But what's great about the red shrimp is that they are by catch, you know, of bycatch, right? So there's only one boat that targets this, you know, this product out of the northeast, and that's it based out of Montauk. Uh, and they're primarily targeting either squid, but more often than not, Silver Hake.
+
+[42:11] Um ugly fish, right? Ugly Hakes are ugly, ugly fish. I wouldn't say that. Weird the sow saw hake. You're thinking of the really big ones.
+
+[42:19] Yeah, the small silver hake are usually only like eight to maybe you know, eight ounces to maybe a pound and a half. Oh, so they look like a normal fish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You mean they've and again, they're not seeing the light of day in our world, right? Those are all being shipped to you know, to to other communities outside fine dining, right?
+
+[42:36] So um, but typically it's a it's a very inexpensive fish. You know, the boat would come out, and they would go out and fish in volume. Uh but now, because of you know, because of the relationship with Dr. Dish, they can go out and get their their hay catch, but then they can tack on a couple days of shrimp fishing, and I mean all of a sudden their return is like 30% greater on that trip than what they would otherwise would have received. And it's like plus good shrimp, plus great, great shrimp, right?
+
+[43:02] And we've seen up to seven different varieties of shrimp out there. Um like Sicilian tiger ponds, all sorts of weird can't curse, but stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, you know, is is out there, and it's just like it's the wild west. For for those of you out there, and I'm not anti and I know we we can have the aquaculture thing.
+
+[43:20] I'm not anti, but however, you should just be aware, you probably are if you listen to this, but 99 nine of the shrimp you buy is raised in fundamentally fresh water. And don't I'm not just worried about whether or not it's filthy or whatever. The fact of the matter is that shrimp don't taste as good when they grew up or when they're living in fresh water, they don't have the free aminos and the flavor of an honest to God living in saltwater shrimp. And chemically treated, right? Heavily.
+
+[43:51] Heavily the hell out of them. It's just like and it doesn't taste like shrimp. No, yeah, it's a very mild chemical aftertaste. But that's why that's why we're used to first of all, and we've had this conversation when uh we had the uh secret of groceries guy on. Yeah.
+
+[44:04] It's like, you know, and he brought to my attention someone hadn't thought about it. When I grew up before aquaculture was, you know, as big as it is now, shrimp was expensive and tasted like shrimp. And now it's just like, you know, it's like the chicken of the sea in the sense that it's just kind of it's not from the sea. It's chicken chicken from the tank. You know what I mean?
+
+[44:24] And it like And now you see all the fraud issues that are so prevalent down in the Gulf, like the underspent sort of nightly news crackdown after crackdown in like, you know, New Orleans or in Florida showing all the you know the false labeling. But good Gulf shrimp is good though. Yeah, but also hard, even hard for us to source, you know, consistently, right? It it's there, but you have to be very deliberate. There's a f you know, deliberate about who you're gonna source it from, how you're gonna do it, and you know, who's you know, knowing who the real deal is is it it requires an extra step.
+
+[44:52] Yeah. And as I've said many times on the air, if you want to do a triple six and get iodine poisoning from shrimp, you must use wild caught. The iodine levels in the aquaculture shrimp are minuscule. You're never gonna get iodine poisoning no matter how much shrimp you eat, if it's not uh wild caught. So just you know, fair fair noise.
+
+[45:10] But you know, honestly, going back to the economic species is the thing that I'm always most eager to talk about because being a fisherman is hard, right? I mean, you're you're getting pummeled out there, right? So our shrimp are caught almost 130 miles off the coast of Long Island. Um, you know, trips are usually five to seven days long, and then guys go out in anything, right? If the if there's a weather window, uh if even a few days, you know, boats will run.
+
+[45:33] I mean, you're missing, you're missing weddings, you're missing funerals, you're missing birthdays. The sacrifice, you know, that fishermen make, you know, from a family, you know, standpoint to be able to put food on their plate is unlike anything else you'll see, you know, in our food systems across the country, right? And at the same time, you know, the cost of living, you know, in our ports, not only in Montauk, but up and down the Jersey Shore or the Cape, et cetera. You know, these home prices have tripled. To be a teacher and a fisherman raise a family in four in these ports is impossible.
+
+[46:00] Right. Because you have to deal with weasels from our city going up there and buying it. Exactly. We're not terrible, but you know what I'm saying. It's just, you know, but it's it's the reality.
+
+[46:08] So, you know, the average age for a fisherman is well over the age of 60, and you know, their kids are not necessarily taking the torch and you know, and carrying on, right? By and large, kids are leaving port towns, they're going on to to greener pastures. And you know, we are w our numbers are are dwindling and they're dwindling rapidly. So, how much more can a family or a captain or someone on one of these boats, and hopefully it trickles down to the not just the owner of the boat, but to people who are working the boat. How much more can they hope to make selling this route versus going to a standard commodity auction situation?
+
+[46:47] It's a good question. I mean, it depends on the product, and you know, we obvious obviously need to be competitive, you know, relative to uh, you know, to our competitors here in the city because you know, especially chefs these days care most about, you know, as much about prices sort of any other every other point. But, you know, at 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 percent, right? We've gone in all different directions. It very much is, you know, species dependent, right?
+
+[47:09] And and you know, dependent on the relationship of the boat. But uh, you know, there's there's always an advantage, you know, when sourcing directly. But that's a huge but it and and uh again, you know, sorry anyone who isn't uh like doesn't work in industry like this, like who just has like a salary job, but like getting a 10% pay raise is great. But in a break-even business, getting 10% more means now I actually have a profit versus like I'm sucking wind and can't even pay my bills. So it's like uh it's a big deal.
+
+[47:43] I mean even 10% would be a big deal, but like 20, 30 percent, it's like, you know. Yeah. I mean, typically they were they were saving, I mean they're making about a buck to a buck fifty more, which was well above ten percent, right? So when fishermen come into a dock, they have to pay a dock fee, call it over the dock, right? It's typically a quarter.
+
+[48:00] We ate that as a company, and we gave an extra, you know, uh, you know, amount to the dock itself to allow us to source directly from boats. So the boats coming in right off the bat were psyched that we're able to, you know, to cover that cost for them uh and the cost of shipping. So typically they're paying trucks, there's trucking companies, right? Blah, blah, blah. And they're you know, paying between 15 and 25 cents, depending on where they are and where they're shipping to, we would also cover the shipping costs.
+
+[48:25] So right off the bat, they were happy with that relationship. Um most of the time we are able to uh you know honor, you know, market pricing. So looking at what you know, our you know, biggest fish markets here in the city are selling for, if we can match that one to one, you know, they're typically losing anywhere between like fifteen and twenty percent of that sale when it's going to the market and being sold to us. So we'd way way rather go to the fishermen and give it to them uh as opposed to you know a middleman, right? So it was a very, you know, healthy relationship going back and forth and trying to eliminate as much of the supply chain as possible.
+
+[48:58] And what's the and what's the the cyc the cycle time for you guys is like one day, right? I mean, of course, that's always the goal, and uh yeah, that's always what we're shooting for. Yes. What's like the cycle time for like it? If I buy a fluke and I don't get it from someone, even if it comes from Long Island and I'm buying, even if it was fished out of the water in Long Island, how long is it taking the fluke to show up at my at my fish store?
+
+[49:22] On average, I mean it could be you know, it could be less than 24 hours in many cases. I mean, it could be up to five days depending on weather, right? So that's like that's the thing that again from a consumer standpoint or chef standpoint that folks know very little about, you know, we are subject to the whims, you know, of weather, right? So a lot of fish, you know, has to be held, and of course it's perfectly fine, and that's the you know the way the world. Yeah, yeah, in many cases better, right?
+
+[49:45] And you know, Japan, they're resting their tuna for you know, they would never cut into a quote fresh tuna, you know, within you know a couple days. Exactly. So there's benefit to that, and it's you know the way the world goes around. But it doesn't help so much with some fish though, or with shellfish. Of course.
+
+[49:59] So there's a balance with that, which is why so much shellfish is chemically treated and frozen. There, I mean, there is really sort of no uniform answer to that. But we're constantly balancing the priorities of now nearly 50 different species, you know, to uh of course provide the best possible product with the best story, the best connection, you know, to the fishermen, but it's uh they're all a little different. So other than other than your A box, what do you call it? What was the box?
+
+[50:25] Instead of like other than that, like how many pounds of something do you need before it's a viable thing? That's a good question. And again, you know, kind of annoying answer, but it really depends on how far out the guys have to go and how much quote buycatch they're you know, they're really doing. So that was the thing when we first started, we were really annoying because we were constantly trying to get, you know, a f a piece of that or a piece of this, and that doesn't work, right? The guys come back, they're stoked that someone believes in them that understands, you know, uh how hard their job is and wants to shine a spotlight on these diverse products, but at minimum, you know, fish are packed in 60 pound cartons.
+
+[51:01] You need to take a carton, that quickly becomes a pallet, which is 1500 pounds. So coming back with 1500 pounds of sea robin, you know, you got a project under hands versus you know, uh a 60 pound box, right? Right, right, right. Okay. Now, also I I forgot to ask this, but like let's say I have a boat and I go out and I have a target fish, right?
+
+[51:20] And I'm getting as much of that, but my bycatch, I put it so instead of dumping it back overboard, I know I sell it to you. Does there anyone who like this chunk goes to the regular auction market because they know that they can move a a boat ton, literal boat ton of it, and then but they know that you'll buy like all of the bycatch? It's more often the case, right? So we will, you know, again, up until recently, we are not able to buy, you know, whole boats, right? So and it again to get you know, in the weeds here, there are boats that fish under state permit that you know will go out for in day boat fish, and they have boats with federal permits that might come back with you know 50,000 pounds a trip.
+
+[51:54] So you have huge, huge fluctuations in terms of volume, depending on the boat, and they could be both fishing for the same species, right? But they're sort of wildly different sides of the spectrum. Uh so we have different relationships with different boats, but they all you know uh support the mission we're trying to do. So that that model is open, it's not an all or nothing situation. Yeah, correct.
+
+[52:14] For the for the the boats, the captains. Yeah, no, they typically you know, they'll give us first crack at you know, at sourcing directly from boats, and then you know, the rest will go to the Fulton Fish Market. All right, now let's go to conch here. A conch, however you want to pronounce it. Now gathering stuff on the beach, right?
+
+[52:33] You have they're all different species, right? But you have your periwinkle size things, yeah, your welk size things, and your conk size things. And they're all related, right? Welks don't taste as good. Why?
+
+[52:45] Is it just me? Oh, I actually think they're better. You like a welk more than like a periwinkle? Yeah, 100%. Really?
+
+[52:50] Yeah. It has that weird kind of I mean, in in the Cape. I've never caught them over here. It has like a weird like flavor to it. But you like that.
+
+[52:58] They're a lot sweeter over by us. Really? No. Yeah, yeah. Because they're like the ones that I used to get, I don't know what they're eating right off the beach, but they have like a like a fish tank flavor to them.
+
+[53:08] Yeah. I mean, it depends. I mean, there's a lot of factors that are going to increase or impact flavor, but I mean you want to have current and you want to have cold water, right? If you're cutting catching them, if you're on the bay side, yeah, I got them in the bay. Yeah, it's gonna be a whole different product.
+
+[53:19] So that's why I didn't like them? Yeah. Where bay periwinkles are fine. It's because they're small and they don't pick up much flavor from because they're not old enough yet, or what? Yeah, and that I I can't I can't speak to so good tip.
+
+[53:30] So I need to get, I've never even bought them because when I was a kid, we would gather pot, we would get like a pot of periwinkles, a pot of mussels, and a pot of whelks, and a bunch of cahogs. And then we would like cook them and I'd be like, I'm gonna be like the well, you know what I mean? But like I was getting them out of the bay, slow moving, relatively warm, like because of the sun, right? Because I was going in the shallows. So like in the super shallows there, it's often quite warm because there's a huge sun impingement in the water there.
+
+[53:58] All right. So it's actually um it was a more or less the reason why I got into Dr. Dish, because I was on a hunt for whelk, right? So like your was it your grandfather, you know, who is uh surf caster. My stepfather, yeah, yeah.
+
+[54:10] Your stepfather, right? Avid, uh, you know, I'm an avid, you know, fisherman, right? And uh, you know, one day, you know, mislabeled you know the buoys out there as being lobster buoys, and you know, older fishermen correcting me. I'm like, those are all conch bots. I'm like, conchpots, long island.
+
+[54:23] And it turns out Long Island has one of the largest conch fisheries, you know, in in the country. How what size? Show me what you're getting out of there. I mean, all different sizes, right? So all the way up to the really not like huge, but not like you see down the Caribbean, but you know, certainly, you know, eight inches.
+
+[54:37] They're the thin shell ones here, no? Or is it not like we have a couple different species, right? There's the uh smooth welk, knobby welk, we have channel welk, and they mostly, you know, from a genus standpoint are welk as opposed to conch, but you know, they're all you know, they're all there. Um you got me excited to try Welk. I mean, they're awesome.
+
+[54:53] So yeah, Ug DeFor, good buddy, you know, uh Mwell's uh chef was like, you gotta find me these things, right? Because I came back, I told them the story, and I started dialing up and calling fishermen, networking, blah, blah, blah, and then came around to dock the dish. And you know, now it's you know, it's something that we source, you know, every day. But again, it's just it's we've sourced over 125 products in the last calendar year from local waters, right? So we have NOMA level diversity on our doorstep, but you know, these things never really see the light of day.
+
+[55:20] Also, something I have had served to me once, but not enough for me to comment. And I've never cooked them other than they ended up in my pot occasionally, is I guess what we used to call like uh lady slippers or or they're gonna be like, Olympics, yeah, slipper snails. Yeah, they have a bunch of names. So how what are they what are they how first of all, how big do they get when you guys get them? I mean, the biggest, so just explain to listeners, they kind of look like you're at like an everyday rocker shell, right?
+
+[55:46] Um, and their bycatch of uh of clamming, um, typically in the Great South Bay or Mauritus Bay or Shinnocock uh on the South Shore of Long Island. Um, and they look like little, you know, lumpy shells. But if you twist them open, they crack open, you get a small, you know, anywhere from a nickel to half dollar size medallion of meat that's very similar to Avalone. Really? A half dollar size looks like a little bit.
+
+[56:09] Oh, yeah, the big ones get, you know, are awesome. Oh man. Yeah. How much do those cost? I mean.
+
+[56:14] I mean, like roughly. I mean, they're I mean, they would be, we would have to go out there and source them. There's z literally zero market for that fish in particular. But that's like, you know, that's that would be by request. I would have to, you know, throw a clam or a couple extra bucks to go get them for us.
+
+[56:28] Yeah, because the uh what's it called? Like uh just like the occasional one in the pot that is like riding on the back of whatever else you were cooking, like never really tasted much out of it. You know what I mean? Because A, the ones by the shore are generally relatively small if they're alive. You know what I mean?
+
+[56:42] Um that's one I want to try for sure. Um which clams do most people want here in the city? Little necks for sure. Yeah? Yeah.
+
+[56:51] Yeah. I had this conversation many times. Why does nobody on what you guys call, I guess, called chowder clams. We used to just call them caw hogs, right? The big ones, right?
+
+[56:59] Because there's all a lot of most of them are similar species, right? Why does no one like bake stuffed clams anymore? I don't know, they're so good. They're so good. So good.
+
+[57:08] Yeah. I had this conversation with somebody else and on the show, I think last week. Why don't people eat that anymore? And they're so abundant. Yeah, Stasla doesn't like them, but I don't think she likes Do you like clam chowder, Anastasia?
+
+[57:20] She left. Oh, she left. All right. Now she's like, I have crap on you people. Crap on you people.
+
+[57:26] That's how much she likes clam chowder. Yeah. Well by you, Jack. You like clam chowder? Yeah.
+
+[57:31] Well, you're fine. But you don't like stuffies. We had this conversation like last week. Yeah. Weirdos.
+
+[57:38] Hey, I didn't also more. I didn't know we had mantis shrimp off of our coast. Yeah. It's pretty wild. I mean, they're extremely abundant.
+
+[57:45] Umta shrimp. If you've only ever had pre cooked frozen mantis shrimp. Let me just tell you one thing about those things. They suck. They suck.
+
+[57:57] But a fresh mantis shrimp is a good thing. Correct. Correct me if I'm wrong on this. They're great. Yeah, but I didn't know we had those.
+
+[58:04] Yep. Uh what else? Like, there's just a whole bunch of things that I wish I could have gotten. I don't even know what they are. Like cobia.
+
+[58:12] Is that a good to eat? Cobia, it might be the best. Really? The single best one. Come on, really?
+
+[58:17] Yeah, typically they're caught in the Carolinas. They're a cool fish. When you're out fishing, you'll see them lurking on the water. Um, you know, primarily in like tunic grounds, like inshore tunic grounds, like 15, 20 miles off. But now they're coming into our base, like in the spring and early summer, you'll see them floating on the on the surface.
+
+[58:33] They get huge, right? I mean, you can catch them up to 100 pounds. And from what the internet says, they're related to the Ramora and they eat a lot of shellfish, so they should taste pretty good, right? Yeah, incredibly high fat content, delicious fish. I mean, since we're getting well, like uh we're have to be done soon.
+
+[58:46] Um be interesting to me is that there's so many things that I've never cooked here, Cusk. Like that, like it would be good to know kind of like, okay, treat like mackerel, treat like this, like so that like chefs could plug and play on like stuff that they know because we all have ways that we cook mackerel, we all have ways that we cook flat fish. We all have you know what I mean? So, yeah, we and that's one one thing, you know. We're not just like sales reps when we're out there.
+
+[59:12] Most of us have cooked in kitchens. You know, myself, you know, personally, you know, that's uh an obsession cooking fish. So we definitely help to plan menus and we let chefs know hey, you can count on this fish to be to run for specials on weekends, or you can consistently menu it for you know for a season at a time. You can, you know, blackfish I saw on there, you know. You know, this is a few.
+
+[59:32] Oh my god. Great location. Are they the meanest fish on earth? When you get them on the boat, they're just not just amazing, but again, incredibly high-fat content fish. They feast primarily on a diet of crabs.
+
+[59:43] I mean, they are delicious. They never see the light of day on local menus. Mean, mean suckers. Uh our razor clams, by the way, are God's razor clams, specific razor clam people. If all you've had is specific razor clam, you haven't had a razor clam.
+
+[59:57] Uh yeah, those are the best too. And we Razor Clam season opens back up November 15th on Long Island. Tani, Tommy Garpy, our bayman's who we source from, he's he's the man. And uh yeah, there's nothing better than a truly fresh razor clam. Alright, sorry, one more thing.
+
+[1:00:10] Sorry, Joe. Uh your perch, there's freshwater perch or is there an ocean perch I'm not aware of? Ocean perch, they have a million names, you know, ocean perch, Acadian Redfish, Boca Negra, they're all the same, you know, sort of they're all the species with same species with different names. Uh we we menu them as boca negros, which is what the Portuguese uh community in New Bedford calls them because they look like boca negra over uh on the on the other side of the world. You do you do any fish when they're on the way back way back in like Shad or no?
+
+[1:00:37] No. All right. And last, you should get in touch with Michael Fabro from ceremony because he's putting Ikajima machines on boats. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. We're we're yeah, we're very familiar.
+
+[1:00:45] All right, cool, cool. All right, well listen, Casey. Uh thanks for coming by. It was uh fun having you go to uh uh uh Doc Doc to Dish rhymes with fish, and uh if you're a restaurant, if you're not suck it, go to those restaurants. All right, thanks.
+
+[1:00:58] Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City News Stand Studios. Joined as usual with John, how you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yeah?
+
+[0:22] Great. Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels. What's up? Hello and welcome to the show. Nice.
+
+[0:26] We got a full house tonight. Upper left-hand corner, we got Quinn. How you doing? Hey, I'm good. Good.
+
+[0:32] And holding down Los Angeles, we have not only Jackie Molecules. How you doing, Jack? Yep. Good. Hopefully with further tales of uh of dishes he he ate while he was abroad.
+
+[0:43] And of course, not least, Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing? I know she was here. And while we're waiting for Anastasia to get back, uh our special guest uh on on the phone today, so I can't, you know, I can't give the squinty eye, which I'll have to give John the squinty eye instead when I'm doing stuff, is uh Michael Twitty, whose new book, The American South, is out today, available on Kitchen Arts and Letters with a discount for uh cooking issues Patreon members. How you doing?
+
+[1:14] Welcome to the show. I'm doing okay. How are you? Uh I will remind you, which you've probably forgotten because I would forgot, that the um I met you first. Uh there was a huge meeting for the Museum of Food and Drink.
+
+[1:27] I mean, sorry, yeah, huge meeting to try to figure out what the uh exhibition we were gonna do that uh Jessica Harris uh curated, and that was a crazy room full of people. And you you were there at that meeting. That's the first time I made you. That was a that was quite the meeting, was it not? Yeah, I think that was at uh Pierre Chom's like uh fast casual.
+
+[1:51] Well, the first meeting, the very first meeting was somehow near the Andas in Midtown. Remember? It was some weird place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a weird room somewhere in midtown, as all midtown rooms are.
+
+[2:04] You know what I mean? And I don't remember why we were there or how we got there. I I think it was maybe like one of like Peter's friends from Pinterest or something got us a room or something like this. But it was uh likely. Yeah.
+
+[2:17] All I remember is like being in that room, and I was like, whole first of all, holy crap, like like a serious group of people in that in that room. Remember, this is pre-pandemic times when people still like showed up to meetings. You know what I'm saying? And uh, that's right. Yeah.
+
+[2:34] And uh I was like going into that meeting thinking, how the hell will this museum get any sort of unified story out of such like a large group of people and Jessica made it happen somehow. Anyway. Yeah. No. I mean, in other words, like uh I mean, well, listen, here's the thing here's the thing.
+
+[2:59] As the museum guy, right? Because that's my job is like, you know, the founder of the museum, like my job is to try to help the curatorial team be in a position where uh not everyone maybe will be happy, but they've had enough of a voice that they're also not gonna be mad, at least not publicly, right? So yeah, no matter what no matter what subject you're taking on, right? Some are more or less contentious than others, you always have to try to bring enough stakeholders in that no one can say to you, you didn't at least try. You know what I mean?
+
+[3:35] It's it's a tough uh it's a tough, it's tough. Anyway, uh so this is the portion of the show where we discuss uh things that have happened to us in the uh prior week food or unrelated. So, you know, Michael, you had a book come out, but you have any uh interesting uh food uh food occurrences from the past week. You know, I was able to cook for um a photographer and a journalist working with NPR. They came to my home and I made them several recipes from recipes from the American South, including um okra soup and the red rice and my grandmother's green beans, and almost all of the basics for the meal came out of my garden.
+
+[4:23] Huh. Now, the recipe for your grandma's recipe for green beans, is it the one in the book that's cooked for 45 minutes in the stock? Yes. Now, I am not used to beans. Now, this we're going out of order, so we're gonna go, don't worry.
+
+[4:35] Everyone's also gonna have a chance to say what they did. But like, so the recipe for green beans, you know how like everyone grows up cooking things a certain way, right? So I'm a fast cook man on my green beans. So when I saw a recipe that was like a 45 minute simmer of the green beans in like, you know, a flavorful meat stock, right? I was like, oh, 45 minutes.
+
+[4:55] But then at the end of the recipe, there is a note, and the note says, Don't overcook the beans. So my question to you, Michael, is he's just coughing. He's not my question to you like, oh my goodness, John, you're just all over the place here. I'm now getting spilled on in the studio. So what is what is the perfect place for a bean that is cooked long but not overcooked?
+
+[5:16] What is that? Like uh talk to me? So we're talking about uh green beans, pole beans, bush beans. We're not talking about um, you know, dried kidney beans and something like that. Right.
+
+[5:29] I mean, you could do that. It's not uh it's not a problem if that's what how you want to digest them. But the issue is that normally um greasy beans, polled beans, bush beans were cooked for much longer than 45 minutes. My trick is is that you make the you utilize an already prepared um pot liquor. And so you're not so usually what you would do is you would cook them both at the same time, which meant that was double, even triple the time, and they'd be mush.
+
+[5:59] These are soft, but they're not mush. And they're gently boiled, they're not boiled to death. Right. Because a lot of us uh with Southern Heritage grew up with very mushy green beans, is why people don't mind the stuff that comes out of the can. Well, but the the like uh what how long do you have to cook them before they they take on?
+
+[6:16] And I wish Ariel was here to tell us because I always forget what it is. There's a very specific canned green bean uh aroma chemical. I can never remember what it is, but but these don't take these don't take that on, or they do take that on. Is that looked for or not looked for? No, you want you want to be able to still see plenty of green.
+
+[6:39] You need to make sure, I mean, I'm sure there's some technique or some trick. I don't abide by it. I just do what was my grandmother and my mother and their mothers did before them. So the bottom line for me is just have that stock ready to go, that pot liquor ready to go, have whatever you're gonna use and snap them up, pop them in first hard, then slow, and then 45 minutes, you're gonna have a really good soft, digestible but not mushy green bean. All right, I will I will attempt it at some point.
+
+[7:07] I'll attempt it. Uh all right, so what else you guys got this week? What do you got? By the way, who was it from NPR? Someone we know?
+
+[7:13] Were they cool? Um, I'm not I you know what not at liberty at this point. I'm kinda I'm kinda b yeah, I'm not a liberty. I'm kinda blanking out, but I'm not at a liberty also. So do that.
+
+[7:23] All right, okay. Uh all right, so what do you guys what do you guys got from the week? Uh quick quick one from Taipei, Dave, that I totally forgot to mention on the previous shows. But I I went into this cocktail bar called Under Lab and they do all kinds of like seasonal sort of, you know, high-end cocktails and stuff and liquid nitrogen and yada yada. But which is but seems to be a really big thing in Taipei, right?
+
+[7:48] So anyway, having having a few drinks and um chatting with the bartender, uh girl who goes by the name of Green, right? And she's giving us recommendations like places to eat, and she goes, Oh, let me uh, you know, here give me your phone and I'll follow you on Instagram to keep in touch. And then she looks at my Instagram and she goes, Oh, the master's following you. I was like, What? She's like, Dave Arnold.
+
+[8:13] You know him? Apparently a huge fan of your work, as are a lot of bartenders in Taipei, because I guess uh liquid intelligence was just translated into uh there in Taiwan and released pretty recently. Yeah, that's true. And I did uh I did a uh that's nice to know. That's very gratifying.
+
+[8:35] But I did a uh a stint over there like uh a week uh prior to the pandemic, uh at and went around to some of the bars too. I mean, uh I I I wish I could go back. Taipei is crazy fun. I love that place. You know what I mean?
+
+[8:50] Yeah, it really was, man. And so much good beef noodle soup. I know we said this yesterday. The fruit game in Taiwan is first rate. Their fruit game is on point.
+
+[9:02] You know what I mean? I mean, they have some super expensive that was the place where I was like, they brought me case after case of fresh Sudachis. And I'm used to a Sudachi being like worth like, you know, you could bank that so expensive. You know what I mean? It's like some super expensive citrus.
+
+[9:17] And we were using it like it was nothing. Like it was nothing. Like it was a lime. And I was like, oh my God, why do I live in New York? Why do I live here?
+
+[9:28] You know what I mean? I mean, uh uh, be honest, I don't like tropical paradises or nice things in general. But like I could use the fruit, you know what I mean? Anyway. Uh what about you what what about you, Stas?
+
+[9:40] What do you got? Uh nothing. I was with uh uh Nick, olive oil Nick last night. That's something I thought I thought you might bring it up. Nick Coleman, friend of the show, bass player, olive oil maven, right?
+
+[9:55] Uh a Bansouri specialist. Uh are you allowed to say who you were cooking with or no? I don't think so. That's no. All right.
+
+[10:05] Anyway, I was like, oh my god, from my childhood, but I can't tell you. So I just brought something up. I just tea which I hate doing. Anyway, all right. And uh Quinn, I know you got some crap for me.
+
+[10:14] What do you got this week in the in the life of Quinn? Uh let's see. We did a a nice uh bison uh little strip steak. We found a new source for that in our area. That was pretty good.
+
+[10:30] All right, how'd you cook it? How'd you cook it? You know what I'm gonna ask. How what how? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[10:36] Uh almost black and blue. It was a pre-packaged steak. Really quite thin. So we just you know, get it hard. Heard to you know, beat that.
+
+[10:44] Yeah. So, like how how like super duper lean or no? Uh yeah, pretty lean, but very tender, not like super gamey or metallic, but just a good, like beefy, slightly mineral. So it was raised for meat, and so it was slaughtered at a young enough age that it had not yet taken on that like hardcore, like blood metallic note. Presumably, yeah.
+
+[11:19] Yeah. Although I have to say, I've said this before, I apologize for repeating myself. The one metallic note meat that I absolutely love is yak. Yak is delicious. But uh as I've been told, need that high altitude yak.
+
+[11:33] Don't try to don't try to eat a low land yak. That is not that is not a real yak. If you're if you think you're eating yak, you're eating low land yak. That's just incorrect. Uh um, what's a bayou yak?
+
+[11:45] I don't that'll be interesting. What is a bayou yak? Is that a thing? Is that like the uh I'm just saying, like, I ain't never heard no bayou yak. I heard of yak who live in the mountains, but I never heard no bayou yak.
+
+[11:57] No, I'm not saying I don't know where you get a low altitude yak. Oh, a low altitude. I see what you're saying. No, but like uh I'm I was I was talking to this uh to a Sherpa and I was talking to him about yak meat because you know, as is my habit when someone like grows up like steeped in something that I only have like you know, passing knowledge of, I'm like, oh yeah, yak. I was like, I love yak.
+
+[12:18] What talk to me about yak, you know what I mean? And he's like, you know what? The yak that unless you get yak that's grown way up in the mountains. If you're like dealing with some like someone who l just happens to be like live on the plains, and like they're like I could I could do cows, I could do yak. He's like, don't eat that yak.
+
+[12:29] He's like, that yak is not the yak. You need yak that like was raised above I forget how many thousand feet he said. And I was like, I'm gonna go. I'm like, I have to take your word for it, man. You know what I mean?
+
+[12:41] It's like, who am I? You know what I mean? I mean, you know, our mountains to him are hills. You know what I'm saying? Unless you're like anyway.
+
+[12:51] Um, uh you know, what did I do this week? Oh, uh well, I brought so last week I talked about main fish sauce, main garham company. I brought some for John to taste, so it wouldn't just be my word, but he informs me that this beautiful little bottle is $45. But you know what though? It's delicious.
+
+[13:07] It goes along. So he's gonna taste that later. And not food related, but I saw Deltron 3030 yesterday. They're on their 25th anniversary tour. Oh, yeah.
+
+[13:15] Yeah. And I'm gonna wrap it back to food. They're the only group I know of that in one album talks about carbonation, not once, but twice. Carbonation comes up in two separate songs. And I was like, you know what?
+
+[13:27] Dell, if you're like pro carbonation, I'm pro, I'm pro Deltron. You know what I'm saying? But I also like, you know, uh, I I happen to be friends with uh the producer Dan the Automator, who's on it. But uh yeah, it's a good show. You know, I made some iced tea.
+
+[13:40] Joe, iced tea. What do you got? Honey, iced tea. Oh, sugar. Sugar, honey, ice tea.
+
+[13:52] You just have this ready to go at any moment, Joe. Iced tea. It's any moment, Joe, you can just bust that out. I just made I made it last week for you. Uh huh.
+
+[14:01] I like it. Sugar. So I made some. I made some iced tea. Oh, sweet.
+
+[14:04] I love it. We'll get into it by the way, because I'm assuming I read that I read it, but I didn't actually read the recipe for sweet tea because it's the one beverage that everybody loves in southern cuisine that I just cannot wrap my head around. But I'm gonna let Nastasi go first before Michael responds to that. Nastasi, what do you what do you what do you got for me? What do artists put out that are circular discs?
+
+[14:26] Oh wait, you're gonna make me say whether it's like a record or if I say vinyl, or if I say an LP. Is that what you're trying? Are we trying to get Are you trying to get like the terminology that I use? No, say album. Allabum.
+
+[14:39] No, I say album. How do you how do you use how am I supposed to say it? You kept saying you just said album. I don't understand. Album.
+
+[14:46] Listen, you are the you are the talking police for everything. You know what I mean? It's like, what the hell? It's like, listen, get used to it. I say coupon.
+
+[14:55] I say nuclear. And and I say album. It's better than vinyls. Vinyls. I like the vinyls.
+
+[15:03] Uh all right. All right. All right. So back to sweet tea, Michael. Yeah.
+
+[15:11] I can't get around it. It's so sweet, dude. Like. Oh, it does. Well, it depends on it.
+
+[15:16] It really depends on it's colloquial and discretionary. It depends on the family and the people you're dealing with. It doesn't have to be hurt. It doesn't have to hurt your teeth. It really doesn't.
+
+[15:28] Um, it doesn't have to, we didn't have more, we have maybe about eight cups of eight to ten cups of water and maybe uh one cup of sugar, which I know for a lot of people outside the south is already like too much. I don't do that anymore, but I know people who do way more sugar, and part of it's because it was an energy drink. It starts off as an elite punch, like tea punch. It's like a non-alcoholic tea punch. Those were actually fairly common in the colonial period.
+
+[16:01] And then, you know, ice is of course was a luxury. And then to serve it to guests was even more a a something. Um, but that's just I think it's just kind of like for a lot of people forget we didn't have a lot of candy in processed desserts at one point in history. We didn't have those things. And by the way, if you were to make a very sweet tea punch with ice, that was a lot of work in and of itself, like just scraping off the sugar from the cone.
+
+[16:29] Yeah, yeah. Um, and then the minute people got that sugar in a bag, it was over. You know, it was like, oh, this is the cheapest it's ever been. It's liberally used. So we're talking probably about after 1930, when some more people moved away from the farm, had access to sorghum and other things they put in their coffee or their desserts, and that white domino sugar and other brands became very uh common.
+
+[16:51] But yeah, iced tea is like every single day of my life. Yeah. Every single day of my life. A lot of times I don't put sugar in it, or I put a little bit of sugar and something else in it, and that's just that's just our house wine. Right.
+
+[17:02] Well, that was my uh my grandpa was o like the only thing that ever went into his body other than bourbon was iced tea. But it was like it wasn't sweet, you know what I mean? It was just like all day, it was an all-day affair. You know what I'm saying? Yes.
+
+[17:16] Yeah. Yeah, giant pitchers all day, big cups, napkin wrapped around the cup, working outside. You know what I'm saying? Anyway, uh exactly sugar honey ice it beats the hell out of switchell. Ooh, they uh vinegar switch well.
+
+[17:35] Yeah, but see, the switchel to to northern people, haymaker switchel was one thing, but there was another type of switchel that was in the South, which is basically it was very similar, but didn't have any spices in it. And it was just, you know, at more than likely apple cider vinegar with um well well water, spring water, and a little, you know, jill of molasses. And I told the I talked to kids about this because it's easy to read some talking about food history, and say, well, if you were enslaved or you were uh working on a farm in a South free person of color or dentured service, this would have been the best you got. This would have been your Kool-Aid, your Gatorade, and uh, and put a little salt in it, and then some half the kids will always love it, and the kids will alre will always spit it out immediately. Yeah.
+
+[18:24] Well, you know, some people are trained to spit out what is different. You know, sometimes you can't help it. I I never thought I would have picky kids, but you know, that's the way life goes. Uh going on to well, starting at the back of the book, I guess, beverages. I see you also uh do a sumac lemonade.
+
+[18:41] Now here's my question to you. I love sumac. I make it every year, and Astasia's brought it to me when she finds it. I love sumac northern, which is staghorn, so similar, although you I think you said there's a separate uh species down there. I have never found commercially available sumac that was good for anything other than savory food cooking.
+
+[18:59] I've never found a sumac I could buy that was worth like spit when it comes to making drinks compared to getting sumac off of a staghorn sumac. You know what I mean? Give you do you have a source? No, because some of these things are absolutely meant to be forged. Um anytime across all the work that I've done, I really do intend for if I have an adventurous reader or fan, for them to learn how to forage, learn how to grow heirlooms, learn how to wildcraft.
+
+[19:29] I want them to go out there. I don't want them to always think I can get off something off of Amazon or order in for it. No, I mean uh there's a there's a beauty and a value to having mail order things, but there's also a beauty and a value to starting your own journey. We were gonna put sassafras tea in there. I had a whole recipe ready to go.
+
+[19:54] The problem is it's because there's a tinge of controversy over sassafras. Yeah, saffron and cancer that w Yeah, that was whole scrap. Uh listen, I have my grandmother, a blessed memory, my father's mother lived to be ninety-five, and I remember every year collecting the sassafras roots and gerana with her. And my grandfather lived to be ninety nine on the verge of a hundred. Both of them, not every single day, but when they felt a knee for it, they drank that sassafras tea.
+
+[20:24] Unfortunately, I couldn't put it in there. Um I wanted to put Plant Us Punch in there, but I kind of ran out of steam 'cause I was like, oh Lord, if I mess this one up, let me just tell the kids to go find it somewhere else. Well, so since you left it out of the book, let's talk about it now, because here's a curious thing, and I've asked many people this, right? In the South, so for those of you that don't know, I mean, I don't know, sassafras, the tree, is a uh uh an awesome like sc usually scrubby. I've seen big ones, and they're cool and they're immediately recognizable because their leaves aren't all the same shape, but they all have kind of a mitteny, they're sometimes they're just oblong things, but they also have a mittenies kind of situation.
+
+[21:04] The leaves are a classic thickener in southern f called philae, right? And then the the roots are used to make, you know, sassafras flavored like beverages. Now, why we have that stuff growing also like weed up here in the north, and yet I don't know whether and and you know, like Michael says, like uh I forget exactly when it happened, but all use of commercial use of real sassafras was wiped out by government intervention because of uh probably flawed cancer research. I forget what what the date was, right? So I have no idea whether there was a northern history of using it at or not, but I know that we don't have a history of using the leaves in the same way.
+
+[21:46] It's always been curious because it's here in our larder, and you know, I walk around and chew on leaves because I love the weird slippery feeling, and I love the like faint sassafras flavor you get. But we've never I've never harvested. So when you're harvesting sassafras, are you harvesting like the like the young saplings that are growing up and getting the thin roots, or what do you do? How how how do you do that? Exactly.
+
+[22:07] So you want for philae, um, which is endemic to the Gulf Coast, Southern Louisiana. Um, you use you gather the leaves when they're really small, small and a little bit furry. You dry them, the whole branches. Then you once they've dry on the branch, you strip them off, you um macerate them, and then you sip you put them through a sieve until you get the finest powder possible, which is a lot of work. That's why the traditional filet was very expensive, it was not cheap.
+
+[22:38] Um the roots, yes. You you go around getting the saplings that set out in the spring when this because sassafras is a colonizing uh species. So it's the kind of thing that will grow in a field once everything else has been cut down. Sassafrass will find its way, and then that's what you really want. That's kind of like edge of the field in the forest kind of thing, or in the or standalone.
+
+[22:59] So that's what you want. And they'll set out new plants, and then you just kind of like wait for them to get a little body to them a year or two, and then you dig them up and get those roots, and then you screw you wash them, you scrape them, you dry them, and then you set them aside. I will try well, I don't have I used to have a some land with sassel over it, then I don't have it anymore. So there you go. Uh but I'll try it someday.
+
+[23:24] Someday, uh God willing, I'll try it. Uh I had another one for you that I didn't see in the book. I could have just missed missed it, but I would be remiss not to ask. Something I've always wanted to try, never have. Do you do any poke?
+
+[23:35] You do a poke salad, or you do any of that stuff or no? Oh, that'd be that'd be worse. I really wanted to do that in the book. That'd have been worse. I mean, this is an internal sort of like, nah.
+
+[23:45] And I'm just kind of like, I really want to go there. I was just like, we already have possum and sweet potatoes in this book. I was gonna ask you about the possum, yeah. But like, okay, so let's talk about uh apparently. Look, I was always told not to touch that stuff growing up, right?
+
+[23:57] Because it also not only grows like a weed, is in fact a weed, right? And it my whole life growing up, you'd wait for those things, they'd shoot up, and you're like, no, that's poison. So I never tried it. You know what I mean? And now I don't have access to it anymore.
+
+[24:11] Because you kind of need to know where it comes up, right? You need to not only have it around, you need to know where it comes up before it's already up. So you need at least a year in advance if you don't already know where they are. You know what I mean? So you need to know how yeah, you know how many dogs have peed on it too.
+
+[24:25] Yeah, well, you know, I wouldn't. I have foraged stuff in New York City, but only things that are above the pea zone. You know what I mean? I've never foraged low low-line stuff here, yeah. Is poke the purple uh buried um plant?
+
+[24:40] Correct. Yes. Yeah. That's the one that Dolly Parton used to sit tell a story about how when she was growing up, they didn't have any, they couldn't just like buy a lipstick. So when they were little, they used to play house by dabbing poke berry just in the lips, which by the way, I think would have been have been a murderous idea.
+
+[24:57] One time I just tried to dive poke when I was a boy, um, and my hands ached from the toxins in the berries. So that's a thing. But okay, let's okay, two things. Quick. One is that the berries, some I've been told this, I ain't never tried it because I don't have no no wish for the other side right now.
+
+[25:18] But somebody told me that if you steep them in like like uh Everclear or some kind of like moonshine hard liquor, it's a really good cough syrup. I bet it is a good cough syrup because it'll kill you. Yeah, exactly. That's one that's one way to cure it. But there, but that that was I've seen that multiple places, and I'm not gonna try it.
+
+[25:37] Yeah. But Virginia grandmother always said if there's the little red streaks in it, um, you may be too late, but if they're faint, you good you're good, but you gotta cook it several times. And the funny thing is it'll retain its nutritional integrity. And it will keep the it's a purge purgative. You don't just eat it because you want to eat it.
+
+[26:02] You eat it because way back when all of our ancestors who lived in early America and up to the Civil War and beyond had worms. Oh, so they can avoid it, especially if you deworming it. The vermifuge. All right, yeah. Oh, that's a great word.
+
+[26:19] That's why you had it. So says the frass and pokeweed are both vermifuges. Vermifuge. Like that like would be a good, if I was 18, that's my band would be called. Vermifuge.
+
+[26:31] Anyway. Okay. So is it from a taste perspective? So this is one of the there's not that many things I have super food food FOMO on. You know what I mean?
+
+[26:41] But that's one of them. Is the taste like really good? Like am I missing out, or is it just more of like a cultural thing that it's like it's good to have had it? Can I just be real with you? Yeah.
+
+[26:55] It's the bacon and onions. Mmm. Because those are delicious things. Grease and onions. Yes, bacon and ramps and onions and bacon grease.
+
+[27:05] There's a good smell and a good taste. Yeah. All right. Fair enough. Oh, uh I'm going to uh because we're already almost half over.
+
+[27:13] I have a we have a question in directly for you from Morgan R. So I will read that. Uh question intended from Michael Tweedy, but open to others as well. Over the past few years, I've been increasingly interested in historical foods. Uh the menu archive from the New York Public Library, which by the way is a good archive if you've never been people.
+
+[27:28] Uh has been a great place to kick uh kick off rabbit holes on why certain time periods so heavily feature some dishes or ingredients. I watched the videos from Tasting History with Max Miller uh or Townsend frequently. Uh and I've recently come across a few modern copies of cookbooks from the 15th century through the 19th century. I'll also go through book sales to find old community cookbooks and see how people talked about food and what they ate in different regions of the U.S. And with these general efforts uh to learn about food and history, I often feel like I'm uh taking in someone's interpretation of history without knowing how accurate it is.
+
+[27:58] And when I'm working on my own, I try to make old recipes. I often find them to have minimal instructions. So uh I do it as a modern cook would do, and often has me wondering if I've made the historical recipe or just a version as I would prefer it to be. This is a classic problem, P. S.
+
+[28:13] Um, as a two-part question, do you have recommendations uh as an amateur on how to better find access and interpret primary sources as it pertains to historical documents? And how do you approach translating cookery to modern applications? Honestly, it's all about feeling and intuition. Um first of all, I'm gonna get through our fake heads that there is no such thing as replicating the past. None in any situation.
+
+[28:39] Because we the minute you have different chemicals in the air and in the water, the minute you have different temperatures, the minute you have different climate patterns, you can approximate it, and that's fine. You can approximate it, and there's no shame in that. Um the next thing is think through that person's process in their day. Okay. If you know, it doesn't make sense until you look at the recipe in context of a series of actions.
+
+[29:12] You know, uh how how much energy do did I have to expend on other tasks? How valuable are these ingredients to me? Um that's the special part. That's where the magic happens. It's not in the, hey, it looks like something in the picture.
+
+[29:28] It's not, hey, it tastes old timey. It's wow. I have the feeling like I was in Abruzzo. I was in ancient Rome, I was in the Mali Kingdom, I was in Whitechapel in London. I was in Salem, Massachusetts.
+
+[29:49] I was in that space, and there's like 20, 30 things that go along with every recipe from the past. You know, it's not just one element, it's many elements. I'll just give a quick example. It's like the boar's head that the that the Tudor Kings would eat. It was all dressed up for them.
+
+[30:06] You know, you have to understand there was a hunt, and the animal was cornered and it was fired a certain way, and it was blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it came down to a song and a recipe that was even in the English hymn though. The boar's head, I understand, is the rarest dish in all the land. Um, may we have the boar's head with mustard. Okay, there's some details there, and the other details you can find, but you gotta take it slow.
+
+[30:31] You can't just like rack up a bunch of historic recipes. You have to take them very slow and look at each one in its context, read all you can about it, and when you have the right taste, you will know it in your mind, your heart, and your mouth, and your stomach. I'll add one more, but this is because I'm old, right? Uh I don't think people think this way anymore, but it used to be so you need to especially be wary of people who interpreted old recipes uh back in the day, is because there is an inherent underlying assumption that you should always avoid that people in the past were stupid, or that people in the past. Yeah, or that people in the past somehow didn't eat good food, or that poor people didn't eat good tasting food.
+
+[31:16] So there's all these assumptions. Right. You know what I mean? That are I think 100% wrong. So I think uh the the most interesting thing for me, and when I'm reading cookbooks, even modern cookbooks, when I see a recipe that doesn't fit with my intuition, my assumption isn't that that cook is an idiot.
+
+[31:34] My assumption is that there is something I need to learn here, and as Michael said, go slow, because it's not like uh you want to steamroll over what someone else is doing and just assume that the way that you know is better. You're there to learn something different or new to you. Anyway, so um and if I can add on one more thing, too. It's you know, coming there's I always think of this uh article on paintings I read back when I was studying art history of the genetic evolution of watermelons from early Renaissance paintings until now, like genetically, just everything has changed so much, you know, even in the last hundred years that and cattle and chickens and all that stuff too, you know, just used to be such different animals and plants and all that stuff before, not in a good or bad way, just we've just been selectively breeding differently since then, and that results in a big change of flavor. Well, you know, that's an interesting point to go back to what um Michael was saying earlier.
+
+[32:23] So something you don't think about, I guess, with foraging, because I don't think the foraging most of the people I know in the foraging movement don't have this take on it, but that is a more direct connection to ingredients that were exactly what you could have had. True. You know what I mean? Um, which is an interesting point I never thought about. Yeah.
+
+[32:41] Well, if you think about the number of eggs in a recipe for a pound cake, and they're like 40 eggs. Well, oh my God, what wait a minute. Then you realize the eggs were smaller. Or this type of breed of poultry did not taste quite as tender and purdue ready as stuff people used to eating today. All those things matter and they factor it.
+
+[33:05] Uh, here's a question for you. But here's one I haven't been able to wrap my head around historical recipes. You're you're the person to ask. Uh so uh, and you know, so we'll we'll talk a little bit more. We should do that actually now, because otherwise I could sit here, you can't see it, but your book here is peppered with post-it notes of questions that uh want to ask something.
+
+[33:22] You know, some I'm like, for instance, I'll give you one right now before I go on what I'm supposed to talk about. So my I uh like you know, my wife's family spent uh a lot of time when my wife was growing up in uh in Louisiana, some of it on the Cane River in Nacadish. And for those of you that are keeping track and trying to look stuff up, it's not written Nacadish, you can't find it that way. It's like Natchatochis, you have to look up differently. Anyways, they're famous for their meat pies and their dirty rice.
+
+[33:48] Like that's one of their they have a lot. Kane River, look up the Kane River cookbook, great book. Anyway, uh I mean, I don't know if it's great, it was great when I read it, you know, 25 years ago, 30 years ago. Point being, you do a dirty rice in here, but you take out the liver. You it literally says liver free.
+
+[34:03] You don't like the liver in it, or you just think the average schmo won't like the liver in it. Uh both. I mean, I have I mean, I know that Oful is many times can be better for you or great for you. I personally cannot have that kind of thing because it um inspires gout in my body. Uh yeah, fair enough.
+
+[34:26] So that's one element. The other element is that no, I don't think that people who are a lot of people just ain't into liver and all that stuff. So people who are more adventurous or more, you know, non-plussed about it, sure. But I also wanted recipes that I think more people would try. I think more people would try dirty rice if they're like freaked out.
+
+[34:50] If I I mean, I am a blend of an adventurous eater and a picky eater. Right. So for I I ain't gonna lie. A lot of the recipes in this book are recipes that I know how to make, or I wouldn't have a problem eating. Right, right.
+
+[35:05] But not, you know, not everything, you know. So, but like everything has been in an and I'm so like it's interesting. I'm glad to hear the way the way you're talking about it, but everything has been delivered in the world, right? So, like scrapples been delivered, everything's been delivered. And I don't know, you know.
+
+[35:14] I feel like they were eats delivered. Or they can delivered. Uh oh, wait. And also before I go, because I'm gonna forget. So uh grew up in Maryland, correct?
+
+[35:30] Maryland area. I grew up in DC in Merlin, yeah. Yeah. Okay, so I have never Maryland, Merlin. Merlin.
+
+[35:38] Well, so like, well, my my you know, my my dad's family, all that, although they were, you know, a lot of it like Pennsylvania, Virginia, they were, you know, Bal I won't say it the way I'm supposed to, Baltimore. So they you know, he went to Polytech. Anyway, point being that uh uh point being that uh I have never had, nor do I really understand, and there's a recipe in here for fried biscuits to go with it, the Maryland fried chicken. Now, for those of you that don't know, modern chicken was created in like Del Mar area, and so Maryland has like a huge, like uh a huge flag to plant when it comes to the way we whether you like it or hate it, the chicken that we eat now. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[36:15] So talk to me about Maryland fried chicken. What is it? Because I've never had it. So um a couple different descriptions. That I've given a bunch of variations for fried chicken, including the Maryland fried chicken, we put the gr the cream gravy on the side, or the cream gravy on top.
+
+[36:34] It's a white cream gravy. Um and then what you do is instead of baking the biscuits to go with the chicken, you fry dough. If fried biscuits go with the chicken. And if you really want to go even further, you can do the the one where we either dust it with Obey or put Obey in the um the brine or the buttermilk. Um you'll notice that with all almost all of my fried recipes, I do not season the flour with anything more than salt, if that if that's the spices and other things tend to burn in the grease, and all it does is mess it up.
+
+[37:11] You don't taste what you're supposed to be tasting, and quite frankly, it just looks utter and unappealing to me. So I tell everybody to put the seasoning in the the brine, the dry rub or the or the batter or the whatever not the batter, but the uh buttermick or whatever. Yeah, I also let the let the coating do its thing. Beyond the the burning, like if it's gonna be in the dip, so I'm trying to remember you take you so you don't do a dry step, you're wet into dry on your chicken, on your standard chicken, right? You're wet to dry.
+
+[37:39] So there's a big there's a billion ways, so let's not like get into like the the vagaries of it here. But uh I also think that putting the spices in the wet is easier to dose. I think it's almost impossible. Think of all of the flour you throw away when you're doing it to dose all of that stuff into the flour. I think it's just a waste.
+
+[37:58] You know what I mean? And like not effective. Um day is there anyone is is Maryland fried chicken still the thing you can get out, or is that someone that's made in somebody's house? Someone's house, mostly. I mean, this is also, yeah, this is there, you know, Montgomery County, Merlin, which is, you know, right outside of DC, part of the DMV.
+
+[38:20] Um, there was a there was a big far there was a big farmer and housewives market the during the you know tens, twenties, thirties, forties. Um, and it was called the fried chicken capital of America. Because all the women made fried chicken dinners and you know, there was all the all the things that you would expect. And I don't mean fried chicken the way other people do it outside of the South. And for those who are going, Maryland's not the South, Maryland's not the South.
+
+[38:50] Um there's a little thing I want to tell you about called migrations. Where do you think the people in Kentucky came from? Where do you think people in Missouri came from? In Tennessee and beyond. Check those census records, genealogists.
+
+[39:06] They're all from Maryland and Virginia, and some from North Carolina and Delaware. People, the tobacco wore out the land, and people picked up and they moved. Cities in the state of Maryland developed partly because of the presence of free blacks, because they emancipated us because they couldn't keep us anymore. And so we went to the city and became craftsmen and built up Baltimore into the portrait that it was. But then the German Irish came through.
+
+[39:30] And part of my theory, which I kind of like tease in this book, but I don't really outright say, is that we have to remember that there was a huge number of German and Irish immigrants that come into the uh country during the 19th century. And where those immigrants went, the flavor of the city and the area turns. There's no grits line, sir. There's no sweet tea line. But there are migration lines, and some of them don't fit the ones that we think about.
+
+[39:56] If you're from Southern Ohio, Indiana, or Illinois, especially right on, you know, twenty counties, twenty counties above the border, your food is probably southern more than it is Midwestern. And that's because your ancestors were. And don't forget, some people came up from Kentucky and Tennessee and settled into southern Indiana, and some people went down. And that's just history. Not to mention the Great Migration, not to mention the white migration that happened in the 20s and 130s and 40s, not just to the north and northeast, but also to the west coast.
+
+[40:27] Think about Orange County. So I try not to people. And for God's sakes, the South does not equal the Confederacy. Right. Well, the whole introduction to the book, you know, which, you know, obviously you should read, you should get the book, you should read it, is and I I meant to ask you this, so I'll ask you this now before we I ask you the other question I was gonna ask you.
+
+[41:00] See, I keep going in circles. Is um it's a it's about a kind of a broadening of what kind of the stock notion of what southern food is, who made it, where it comes from, and kind of like even more of a broadening than has been done generally over the past, you know, I would say 15 or 20 years. But how how much do you think this is how much do people still have like the old like from when I was a kid, like 70s, 80s view of what southern cooking is and who made it, and how much has the average person broadened their mind out more, you know, in line with what you write in the introduction. If I'm gonna say for real, for real, 6040. I think 60, I think people still have the notions.
+
+[41:48] I mean, I was talking with a you know very well meaning um driver from a car service um from uh North Africa, and I told him that what I write about, and he says, uh he kind of you said, okay, uh, yeah, all fried it in cheese. And I'm just like, oh. And I didn't, I didn't, I wasn't, I wasn't mad about it because I know that's how a lot of people, domestic and foreign, think about southern food. They don't think about seasonality. They don't think about the garden.
+
+[42:19] I mean, I didn't say food from my garden, as in look at me. I said food from my garden because my grandparents and my mama and daddy wouldn't have it any other kind of way. That's called quality assurance. You know, we when we we can say we raised something up from the ground and made something out of nothing, that's our values. That's not just our uh something to talk about in regards to food.
+
+[42:42] So our values are implicit in our food. When they're good values, obviously. I I mean I'm not gonna I'm not gonna uh fake the funk on this one. Southerners are a dysfunctional family. We have been that for 400 plus years.
+
+[42:57] But uh, but also when we get past our boundaries and our bubbles and our boxes, you can clearly see the the the love of the land of nature, the appreciation for seasonality, and also we we well once upon a time, as was said earlier, we had dozens, if not hundreds of varieties of you know livestock and seeds and those things had different flavors. So it's really hard, and also of course, I think the other part is the cultural element. I think that you know Southern amorphous, and I think a lot of times Southern tends to be defined as the white South. And yeah, there's these black people there doing some little black magic in the kitchen or something, and these indigenous people, well, we didn't even talk about them beyond corn bees and squash for most of the writing of Southern food history. And now we have to tell that story because indigenous communities are taking their power back.
+
+[43:59] Black folks are reclaiming their place, you know, from Tony Tripton Martin to many others in what the Southern Kitchen has come to be. And quite frankly, my role in this is I'm really proud to be the black author of a Southern cookbook that is sweeping, that covers everybody, not just soul food. Not not there's anything wrong with that. Not just my family, not just a state, but the entire breadth of what Southern food can be from Cajun to Kurdish to Salvadoran to uh Scott's Irish to black to Nigerian, everybody is in the family portrait. Um and beyond that, I'm really happy that my work in particular, from the cooking gene, the Southern Discomfort Tour through my trips to West Africa, bringing people, I brought chefs with me, uh of my friend Ad Nago Brown, who who orchestrated these with me, um, to West Africa to have the their first meeting with the food of the continent.
+
+[45:00] We're talking about Nigeria, Cameroon, Sierra Leone, Senegal, Gambia, Togo, Benin, and Ghana. Uh yeah. So that's that's that's my thing. I'm like, no, we're gonna we're gonna do the leap. We're gonna talk about Jolof rice with red rice.
+
+[45:18] We're talking about uh uh okro soup with the the gumbo. We're gonna talk about all these different parts, how they differ, how they connect. That's been that's my life work is to make sure that net that connection never gets forgotten ever again. Um and at the end of the day, I think we need this, we need a book like this because we've forgotten who we are. So give me the all of this.
+
+[45:42] Give me the arc, and I know uh I want to get to it now and I'll I will ask I'll ask you my one question first. Because you also did some work early in your career with uh and continuing, right, with the Williams with the folks at at Williamsburg and they like the the historical kitchens there. So I'm this is like not about anything we're talking about. It's just my question. What's with all the nutmeg in those recipes?
+
+[46:03] Do they really use that much nutmeg? That's one of those things where I'm trying to figure out what the hell is going on. I've never grated a whole nutmeg into anything in my life. Should I try it? It was I I mean if you really want to, if you want to do that old-style nut uh eggnog, show enough.
+
+[46:17] But you know, you realize that it was so bad that um people from Connecticut were called nutmegs. And one of the the traveling salesmen, the peddler, a lot of them sold fake nutmegs and didn't know it. It was just wood. Well then you can you can grate as much as much as you can. And they would, you know, that that's how that that's how that worked.
+
+[46:44] I mean, I talk a lot about kitchen pepper. I've kind of popularized it. Now I have two or three chefs that I happen to know who have done their own kitchen pepper. By the way, ladies and gentlemen, spice tribe. I've been working with spice tribe for years now.
+
+[46:58] Uh they're kind of like on the last leg of of my collection because they're sort of changing their thing. I got kitchen pepper, I got it. It's not just pepper, describe kitchen pepper. It's not just pepper. Kitchen pepper is basically like this the seasonal, the season of salt of of the colonial period and and into the antebellum period.
+
+[47:20] And it's pepper, the spice that we might consider sweet or warming spices. And honestly, I think it gives the most gorgeous old timey flavor. A lot of times when these cookbooks said pepper, they didn't say black pepper. They didn't say white pepper. They didn't say red pepper.
+
+[47:41] Sometimes they deliberately say kitchen pepper. And other times, guess what? That's your choice. You can put any of any all any of the above in it, and it'll work. And so that's what what I do here.
+
+[47:53] I specify cayenne pepper, red pepper, or kitchen pepper or black pepper. I prefer coarse ground black pepper over the powdery stuff. Although that's your choice. So I mean, these are things, but I have a if you don't want to make it, I got some gorgeous kitchen pepper through a spice trial that you might want to try. Yeah, go buy it.
+
+[48:17] Go buy it. Support uh thank you. Yeah. Uh, do we have any questions from Discord, by the way, before I run out the rest of our time? Nope.
+
+[48:23] Okay. Um, all right. So let's talk about the journey to this book. Uh I guess from that cooking gene and before Afro Cul uh culinaria and like the whole thing. Why give give us the give us the encapsulated?
+
+[48:38] But I do want to go pepper you with some speaking of kitchen pepper, I'm gonna pepper the hell out of you with questions if I have any time left over. So cool. So the run down. On one leg, as we say in Judaism, a regular chat. Um, basically, this is my entire life journey.
+
+[48:55] This is me when I was very small, going to the grocery store with my grandmother and mother in particular, barbecuing with my father when I was a teenager, watching all kinds of cooking shows. Great chefs in New Orleans. Um cooking with Justin Wilson. Oh how was that Nelly Depree? How was that?
+
+[49:20] So every all of our stuff was on PBS back then. Oh I mean cooking with like watching him not like actually going and like hanging out because yeah yeah oh that man that man was gone long gone but um I got to cooking yeah like out I don't know where I was an adult. What are you what was he always used to say ooh we was he the one that always said ooh we ooh was that him yeah don't don't say yeah you don't want to say that too loud these days that think you rail on a bullet um but you know they they the I'm sorry but I'm a Gen X or I don't know I didn't know what ooh woo meant or ooh we I don't know that so the point being is that he had these wonderful catchphrases he was not Cajun he he cosplayed that real good Nellie Depree had her new Southern cooking Grace Chef in New Orleans was on um and of course uh the the the the chef who we dare not speak his name um you know New Orleans chef oh yeah oh Jeff oh yeah yeah yeah that fella I watched the hair out of that show though one of my first cookbooks was Jeff Smith and he came to DC and I had we had no clue about the you know what and that and that and my mother would try to to you know get us tickets to go and they said no one under 18 allowed yeah so we we don't leave we don't we don't leave that alone yeah but from there I would you know was already uh you know I live living in the DMV there's a lot of access to historical sites, historical places. A lot of, you know, when they show you the domestic life of people in the past, that got me hooked, especially the cooking and food part. Um, and then of course, growing up.
+
+[50:57] It's the reunions, it's the you know, church stuff, it's a this, you know, you you learn from your from your people, your story and how it connects to food. And it wasn't just like we ate green beans. Now my mother would go, you know what? Um, I need some Kentucky wonders like when I was a child. And the first thing I did was grab them.
+
+[51:16] My mother was not well at the time. I grabbed them, I grew them, and oh uh I was just saying I haven't had a a real tomato. And so it was growing my heirlooms, and she was like, Oh, wow, these tomatoes are great. And so it was an interact, constant interaction with everybody in my family, immediate family and way, way, way extended family about those foods and those facts. And of course, reading, reading.
+
+[51:39] I got 4,000 um 500 books in this house. 2,000 of which are cookbooks. It's a lot of weight. That's a lot of things for me. Believe me.
+
+[51:48] Yeah, it is. I know. You can't go very far with it. I get it. And and then, of course, southern discomfort happens when I start to forget about some things, and I really want to remember who I am, where I come from.
+
+[52:00] I did a full genealogical assessment, it did genetic genealogy. Um, got to every state but Oklahoma. Oh. Um, yeah, pretty much, and I don't know if it's a good thing. On purpose?
+
+[52:11] Skipped it on top of it. On purpose. And that was the whole idea was to go through the South learning about my foods, food, um, food steps. I call them food steps, and the this history that's really uncomfortable and messy, but it's a part of who I am and who all Americans are, and who all so of all Southerners. And it was like, okay, so I'm born to these places where my ancestors were actually enslaved, but I'm also meeting Vietnamese people who are growing, you know, gardens in the ditches in Louisiana, and the Mexican community, Mexican American immigrant community in near Athens, and Mennonites in Tennessee.
+
+[52:50] So it was really just this thing about meeting, when I say meeting the family, I'm not just talking about black folks. I'm talking about everybody who contributes to this food culture. And then of course, Europe happens in between all of that. And a lot of England, a lot of Ireland, a lot of Scotland, um, and other parts of Europe, different parts of France and Italy and German Europe, and then of course, eight trips to Africa. And so when Emily Takutis was like, hey, I gotta find an author, and I was like, I'm looking for an author, nobody wants to do it.
+
+[53:22] Then I looked for a co-author, nobody was really that interested. And then she was just like, you know what? Hold up. I got you sitting right in front of me. You write this book.
+
+[53:32] Do you want to write this book? I don't know. Then I had to go buy a house. And I need every little bit of coin I could get. And so I was like, you know what?
+
+[53:42] I'll I'll rank this book. And plus it started during um before right before COVID, then into COVID, then after COVID. Yeah, man. So you are you're researching. People ask me, you know, do I learn anything new and special?
+
+[53:56] No, but I learned how to edit. I learned how to edit my brain. For somebody who has ADHD, it's very difficult to edit all that stuff floating around in your your crown, and then you gotta put it on paper in a disciplined way. I am familiar with this problem. Yes.
+
+[54:12] Right, right, right. And then of course, everybody needs to understand something. I've I think people say cookbooks are, oh, I'm gonna jot down grandma's, whatever, or grandpa's whatever, or dad's famous, blah, blah, blah, and it's all done. Oh no, baby. You got these things called copy edits to make sure that everything is on point.
+
+[54:33] You have people testing, you're testing certain dishes. People are making it, taking pictures, asking questions, um, going through every step of the recipe. I would, I would rather, I would gather that each recipe took between. We're not talking about the rubs, by the way, or some of the sauces, okay? Uh, but the other recipes, like the the baking ones and other that's a that's 18 to 36 hours per recipe.
+
+[55:00] And no one appreciates honestly, like, unless you make things, no one appreciates making things. It's just it's just true. Uh listen, I'm I'm gonna pepper you with questions because I'm gonna run out of time. Joe's Joe's giving me the stink eye. Let's uh I don't even know where to start.
+
+[55:13] Let's start with possum. Is possum taste any good or is it bad like raccoon tastes? Um I have heard from those who have partaken that possum is way better than raccoon, partly because back in the old days, you kind of semi-domesticated the possum. You didn't just call a possum. You you the possum live with you like a like a semi-pet for like six to eight weeks.
+
+[55:40] And then you offered him. Yeah. Yeah. I know what there's a bartender in LA who keeps a possum as a pet. It's kind of crazy.
+
+[55:48] Anyway, uh also, I'm just gonna say this as an appreciation. I appreciate your love of celery seed. I wish more people love celery seed. Uh hello. That was uh absolutely necessary.
+
+[55:59] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's just a statement. All right, now, uh, should we do should we should we do sauces or uh no? I'm gonna ask you about rice bread, because you say you grew up with rice breads. So for those of you who don't know what's going on here, this is uh a bread made almost, I don't think there's any flour supplement, all with like mashed uh cooked long grain rice and then leaven.
+
+[56:17] Talk to me about this. Is this is it like uh what does it eat like? And you said you you grew up with this, so clearly this is something that you have. Yeah, a little bit, a little bit, a little bit. Yeah.
+
+[56:27] It's a it's it's a lighter tasting bread. Sometimes you add a little bit of rice nevercorn meal for like a little bit of filler to bring it together. Right. Sorry, rice, flour. Yeah.
+
+[56:35] To bring it together. Um, yeah, I I it's just really it's it makes the most suspended stupendous toast. It's really good for those kind of things. And I think it's I think it's a thing to master if you know you're an avid baker or you like to do a little play around and you want to give somebody something different to enjoy. I think rice bread is is what goes with it.
+
+[56:59] And of course, use it with those recipes that that are from the low country that are from South Carolina. Um I would even say, watch this. You ready for this? All right. So you can't I don't always want to innovate in books.
+
+[57:11] Rice bread, savory French toast. Oh, all right. Treat it like Welsh rabbit, but but put throw some um some like southern kind of stoop nonsense on the end and go get it. Man, people don't make that anymore. I used to love that the toast with the sauce on it.
+
+[57:28] All right, hold up. Another one. Uh just a just a statement. Uh I for some reason I haven't made it in like 20 years. When I first got Bill Neal's uh book uh called Spoonbread and blah blah blah, I made spoon bread a couple times.
+
+[57:40] It's delicious. It needs to come back into my repertoire. Tell people spoon breads uh do you also agree that this should be in more people's repertoire? Yeah. I mean, spoon bread's is like almost like Americ Southern American souffle ish kind of thing.
+
+[57:54] Not really. It's like hard to describe. Spoon bread is slightly sweet, but it's not really sweet. It's a little savory, but it's not totally there. It's like I call it like the kettle corner bread.
+
+[58:06] Yeah, yeah. All right, now remember I have to blast. I need to blast through some people because I want to give people the breadth of some of the stuff that's in here. You have dumplings poached in grape juice. Talk to me about this real quick, because I got more things to ask about.
+
+[58:18] And you know, muscad iron pies and all this like like southern kind of grapes. Give me some. Give me some. Stumperneck and mushadine are both foxy tasting southern grapes. By the way, we went through hours of arguing about the word foxy.
+
+[58:29] There is no other way to describe these grapes. This is the classic terminology. Wine weasels use. They were like, that's weird. I'm not I'm not hitting on the grape, ma'am.
+
+[58:42] I am describing it as it is, but that's a very traditional. The Creeks and the Cherokee, the Muskogee and the Cherokee, both um, and others would take cornmeal dumplings and drop them in the juice of the uh grapes. And that's where that recipe comes from. But that's worth a try right now. Yeah, yes, absolutely.
+
+[59:06] It's it's it's kind of like once you have it, you wish you never learned about it because you want to have it more. All right, talk to me about peanut pie. Peanut pie, you go to Virginia Donna down route, whatever it is, um, in southeastern Virginia, and that will make you a fan. I mean, I can't eat pecan pie because I'm lunch to treanuts. But uh that peanut pie is is is this the stuff.
+
+[59:32] They didn't invent it. I mean, it's been around for quite some time. But I mean, just I mean, it's worth the alternative. All right, so listen, we're running out of time. I'll just say you need to go buy this book.
+
+[59:43] It's uh Michael Twitty's new book, The American South. Uh of course, you know, get the other ones. Please, if you can buy from Kitchen Arts and Letters, support, uh, support them, support any local bookshop that you have if it's humanly possible. But uh, you know, in here you'll find recipes that uh were gathered from WPA projects, old recipes, new recipes, some crazy, some crazy sauce recipes. They're mayonnaise-based barbecue sauce, which I didn't have time to talk to you about, but I was interested in.
+
+[1:00:07] Uh, so you know, come back anytime, Michael. Appreciate having you. This has been Cooking Issues. Thank you.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City News Dance Studios on a Monday, unusually joined uh with uh John as usual, though. How are you doing? Doing yeah, fun, fun. Loving it?
+
+[0:24] Yeah, loving the weather, but yeah. It's cold and rainy New York Monday. Yeah, it's so windy, dude. Yeah. Bike was getting blown across.
+
+[0:31] It was like a like a like a dance party, if but not fun at all. Uh got Joe Hazen rocking the panels. What's up? Hey, welcome to the studio. Yeah, yeah, dad doing well.
+
+[0:39] So, like, you know, wet but not oily. So that's a I'll take that as a win. I'll take that as a oily. New rules. New rules, no oil.
+
+[0:49] Anyway, uh, well, Captain Oily can come on. Yes. Nick Coleman can show up. He's the only person allowed in the studio with oil. Yes.
+
+[0:58] Um, and we got in the upper oil, yeah. In the upper left hand quadrant, we got Quinn, how you doing? Hey, I'm good. Yeah. Traveling on down the coast.
+
+[1:07] We got Nastasia the Hammer Lopez in Los Angeles. How you doing? Good. Yeah, and then uh just in the beginning of the show, only we only have him at the beginning, Jackie Molecules, but from the great, the great state, best state, small state, Connecticut. How you doing?
+
+[1:22] I'm good. You know, for sure. Loving this East Coast weather, man. Listen, just makes you glad to get back to that uh soulless hellscape where you live. Every day is the same.
+
+[1:37] Listen, it just goes to show like uh there's nothing good like good. Where's the good? Where's the good like if you if you guys could live anywhere, where would it be? Like just not the people, not your jobs. Where would you live?
+
+[1:48] Yeah, Tok Tokyo, Tokyo, really? Huh. Yeah. Maybe I'd live in like the Scottish Highlands of the West Coast of Ireland, like someplace. Just sheep.
+
+[1:58] Sheep or giant cattle. You know what I mean? Just she like the West Coast of Ireland, like when I last time I was there, I was like, oh man, there's no people, just sheep. I could do this. You know what I mean?
+
+[2:08] Like I I get that. Yeah. Yeah. What about you, Stas? If they were everything else aside, where would you go?
+
+[2:16] Um, I don't know. Maybe somewhere in Italy or I like the mid-California too, like the farmland and the ocean here, like Carmel. Oh, oh, mid-California. I thought you meant like Stockton. Yeah.
+
+[2:31] And the valley. I'm like, nah. Yeah. No, I like that stuff too. But like, so I guess uh we're adding to it that you have infinite money.
+
+[2:41] Yeah. Yeah. Has to be infinite money then. Yeah. Uh all right.
+
+[2:46] So what are you guys uh oh by the way? It's a no tangent Monday, so therefore only tangent. We got a lot of questions to get to, but let's talk about uh the week in review. What do we got? Uh real quick, this is not food related, but it was at the way um so I'm on the East Coast both to see my family, who I never get to see my nieces and nephews, but I was here for Joe Galaraga's wedding.
+
+[3:07] Remember Joe? Oh yeah. Yeah, what's he up to? Yeah. He's freshly married.
+
+[3:12] Nice. Living in Baltimore. Who's who who's he working with now? Um I don't I don't he's not doing music anymore. Um but yeah, he's uh he's doing well.
+
+[3:26] And then I saw Carl Carlos was there too, another old engineer friend of the show. It was it was a nice you know, it was like a big ups reunion. Nice, nice. A uh yeah, big b big upslash cooking issues engineering reunion. Uh nice.
+
+[3:40] Nice awesome. Exactly. All right, well uh Yeah, my stomach's still recovering from all the uh hot pot and chong ching noodles I had for three weeks straight. Yeah by the way uh a friend of mine just went to some fancy hot pot restaurant here and was like it was great but the wait was like two hours what takes two hours for a hot pot don't you have it boiling already what is it the Chicago deep dish of freaking things it's like I've said this many times before but when you go to one of the official Chicago they're like pizza takes like 45 minutes. Why?
+
+[4:06] This is what you make why you know what I mean? Did you did you not expect to sell pizza tonight? I don't know if people are gonna come in tonight. Didn't you throw away the dough you know what I mean? Like what the hell is it?
+
+[4:17] Anyway uh so you you got more uh you got more uh china to share with us like I know because now you have the time to spread out and give us your give us your impressions because we don't have to do it. Well I'm curious I'm curious what you what your take on hot pot is um I I enjoyed it sort of as an experience but it sort of felt like a bludgeoning of chili and it's like you know there's not I don't know it was fine. It's a big deal there, especially like Chongqing you know hot pot everywhere. But I don't know what what do you think of hot pot? Uh oh so this is like uh just like a uh is this a question about like that in particular or just very spicy thin liquids in large quantities no that in particular that format yeah uh you know I don't I don't have enough experience I don't like cooking my own food uh you know really no not really I'd rather I'd rather put it in the hands of someone that I trust I'm like especially when you're in a place like Chung Ching where I don't know exactly everything I'm getting I'm trying my best to translate it.
+
+[5:16] You know, I'm like, I don't know. How long it should just be in there. Who knows? Well, did you get a did you get some some s side eye from the servers who came in and did it for you to show you how to do it properly. I always appreciate that when I go to a place and they don't trust me to do it.
+
+[5:27] I'm like, all right, fair. You know what I mean? I wait. I wish that happened. No, I was left on an island and just, you know, shooting blind.
+
+[5:35] Um that's a good question. Although you're reminding me. So, Nastasia, we've had this conversation many times, because Nastasia, of course, fan of Fondue, which is the originally, not the cheese one necessarily, but the oil based one is like a really good old school do it yourself, also kill your whole family situation. And uh, what do you think about the do it yourself, does uh I I like do it yourself. Yeah.
+
+[6:04] I like some of it, but I'm with Jack in one sense. I I don't want to have to necessarily make choices. I feel like that's what I'm paying someone else for. You know what I mean? You hate me.
+
+[6:13] Correct. Well, okay. I'm sorry that you were bothered, but I don't want to make choices. Like, I make choices all the time. When I go to a restaurant, I want to be low-key.
+
+[6:24] That's like the whole craft thing where I I get to choose what the sauce is. Don't you know what's gonna go? Don't you know? And then if I don't like it, I just won't order it. I'll order something else.
+
+[6:33] You know what I mean? Nastasia, I think doesn't I think what she hates in particular is that even amongst a small group of choices, I have to be the last person to order. Yes. Yeah. Also, you can't send it back because you cooked it.
+
+[6:46] That's true. It's your fault. Although it's really on them for making you cook. They hired someone who was unqualified. Basically, if they're making you make a choice on how to cook the food, they're basically hiring an unqualified person.
+
+[6:58] You know what I mean? So it's like underage. Yeah, yeah. It's not right. Right?
+
+[7:03] They should get sued. Um, so it but here's the other thing that it pisses Nastasia off even more. It's not like I'm waiting to see what everyone else's orders because I refuse to order anything anyone else has. I might order the same thing that the person right next to me ordered. I just, you know, I just can't make up my mind, and I don't I you know, I can't tolerate it.
+
+[7:21] And so she so she hates that. So then she tries to weasel it so that she's the last person to order, even though she doesn't care. Just because it bothers her so much that I'm the last person to order. I would have I would have everyone whisper in their ear to the waiter so you can't hear what they order. That would be my dream.
+
+[7:37] But that wouldn't bother me. I don't care. You want to know what everybody. Yeah, I mean, I don't I hate choice. If the my ideal would be if the waiter came up to me and said, You you're gonna have this.
+
+[7:52] I'd be like, okay. You know what I mean? And they'd be like, if the waiter came up to me and they're like, is there anything on this menu that it looks like you would hate? I'll be like, Yeah, don't give me that. Don't give me the zucchini.
+
+[8:03] And they'd be like, fine. And then and then if that was the only choice I had to make, don't give me the zucchini, I'll be like, fine, great. You know what I mean? That's why, you know, even though they're usually expensive, like a pre-fee is like, you know what I mean? Show up.
+
+[8:15] It's like this stuff comes up. Yeah. Have you been to Rayos before? No, because uh I don't know anyone, and like, what am I gonna wait? Eight years to go to a restaurant.
+
+[8:22] I might be dead. And any given eight year period, I might be dead. Well, I I I I had the luxury of going one time. One time. So the guy is like, there's no menu, just like, uh, just tell me what you're allergic to.
+
+[8:33] We won't serve that to you. We're gonna cook you dinner. There you go. And it was great. It was the best.
+
+[8:38] I was like, whoa, awesome. Someone else's house, so much as kitchen. All right, it's cool. Yeah. How was the food though?
+
+[8:44] Yeah, I mean, it was it was delicious. I mean, I was like, yeah, it's a big up to do, whatever. You know what? Who I sat across from? The guy, the the the detective who busted the heroin dealer from the French Connection.
+
+[8:58] The real one, not Gene Hugh. The real one. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't. So this was a long time ago.
+
+[8:59] That guy's gotta be way dead. Uh no, he uh that was probably what, twelve years ago? Yeah, I'm sure that guy is spending most of his time not being alive anymore. Yeah, someone called a hit. What a dream though.
+
+[9:16] No decision making. That's yeah ideal. Yeah, you know, it's like I mean, my move in China was like if I didn't really know what was going on, I would just and they had, you know, a picture menu. I just point to the first four things. Usually like first thing on a menu is what they're known for, it seemed, you know.
+
+[9:30] Yeah. It's like a noodle place, A1, you know, first block. So I just point to the first four. I'm like, this this hopefully this works. That's a great idea.
+
+[9:37] And you can do like a scratch and sniff. Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah. You know, like uh sometimes you go to menu and it's a scratch and sniff anyway, but not not in a good way. You know what I mean?
+
+[9:47] Like for me, it's like uh you know like what I really want to know is is assume I will never come to this place again. What is it that you guys do that I need to have so I can say I've been to this restaurant? You know what I mean? Like you know, you don't want to like uh Which in Japan you just say uh Ososume, that's the word. You just say that, which kind of means like I'd know what whatever you would have.
+
+[10:09] Or what you know, yeah. Say that word and and they'll be like, oh, okay, done. And then they just start bringing you stuff at different guys. Nice. Yeah, you don't want to be that you don't want to be that person be like, you know what?
+
+[10:17] I didn't like Lugers. The fish was not good. You know what I mean? Because you ordered the fish moron. You know what I mean?
+
+[10:23] Like the idiot. Uh yeah, but if you're trusting someone to do that, like you what like what Jack is saying, I mean, that's kind of goes into your like the guy who's gonna shake at the shuffle the truffle shaved, and you know, it's like, no, no, no. It's too much too much. That's it. That well, that's the issue, also is like you get servers and you get disreputable people who they just push whatever they're either the gun're gonna spoil or whatever, and so like there's a lot of distrust of restaurants and servers.
+
+[10:49] So you have it's i it's a trust game back and forth that the the people are going to actually give you what they would have and not what they really need to push tonight. You know what I mean? That's very funny. What about the fish and lugers? Yeah, that's good.
+
+[11:01] Well, so that takes me back there. So Miley Carpenter, who's been on the show and is my sister-in-law, uh she used to run uh timeouts food section back, you know, when time out was like really going great guns. And uh she did a she did a thing once where she went out with sent a group of people out, she did this one personally, to order the wrong thing at every restaurant. So she walked in as a two-top to Luger's and both of them ordered the fish, and the waiter nearly punched her. You know what I mean?
+
+[11:30] She's like, he's like, table of sticks comes in. Maybe one of them gets fish. Both people come in and get fish? Never, never happened. It's never happened.
+
+[11:43] Uh yeah, well, that's true though. Like, you know, a lot, you you you have things on the menu some look, a a good place. Luger's is not trying to be good for everybody, right? But like a more modern style of restaurant tries to have something that actually makes everyone legitimately happy. So they're not gonna like, you know, have like a bunch of steak and then one fish that they hammer into oblivion.
+
+[12:06] You know what I mean? I go there for the service, the personality of the servers. Oh, for the personality, yeah. Although I remember once uh I went and uh we were it was lunch, and so we're ordering the wine. I was like, oh it this is where they were actually like nice to me, right?
+
+[12:20] Like I was like, how's the Peter Lug Luger wine? He's like, Peter Luger's is very famous for its steak. I was like, hmm, noted. You did not directly insult the product, but have told me that it's bad. Yeah.
+
+[12:39] And I appreciate this. You know? That's something I appreciate. Yeah, absolutely. Plus he knew that he'd make more money off of a different bottle of wine anyway.
+
+[12:47] Yeah. All right. Uh well, but okay, so so uh aside from your so for you, hot pot is the is like the equivalent of me with uh tempura, where I'm like, it's fine, but it's actually not the it's not the best way to do that. Yeah, that's kind of how I felt. It's like get a bunch of friends together, drink beers, go do the hot pot.
+
+[13:17] But culinarily, I was like, this is kind of a one-note thing. How was the warm beer with the hot pot? You know, I I finally at some point figured out that I had to ask for it. Um, like in Chinese, they say I like frozen is what they call it. I didn't really understand I didn't understand what that meant on a menu until I had the warm beer, and I was like, Oh, I guess I want frozen beer, and that was just a regular cold beer.
+
+[13:39] Okay. Unhealthy Westerner style. Yeah. Cold. Yeah, all right.
+
+[13:47] Right, right. It's bad for your chi and your body balance, you know. Yeah, well, you know, so so be it. So be it. They don't they don't do cold liquids, really.
+
+[13:55] It's like everything is tea, they only have water. Yeah. So uh that was a weird thing about Taiwan. I don't think I ever saw someone drinking water at a meal in Taiwan ever. The whole time I was there.
+
+[14:09] I was like, what's going on? You know what I mean? Like, do they hydrate in secret in Taiwan? Like, I don't know. It's weird.
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+[14:16] Uh anyway. I don't know either. Uh so uh given that it's you, I wouldn't ask anyone else. How many endangered species did you eat while you were over there? I I don't think any, not knowingly.
+
+[14:28] I don't think any. Yeah. Although the eel is uh isn't eel population kind of isn't that getting endangered. No, like no panda? Like you know.
+
+[14:39] He's like only only red ones. Only red ones. Only the red ones, yes. Raw. We did see many pandas.
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+[14:46] We went to the panda breeding center. It was it was very cute and good. I'm assuming you knew this, but like all giant pandas all over the world are properties of China. Like any panda in a zoo, any panda in a zoo in the United States, gre you know, giant panda, black and white ones, any of them is actually like just visiting from China and it's like on loan. They don't they don't all fingerprinted.
+
+[15:13] So yeah, at any minute well, any minute China could be like, nope. And I think they have a special deal where also the babies are theirs. Like in other words, there is no such thing as a giant panda that isn't like a permanent citizen of uh China. So I've been told. I don't know.
+
+[15:28] I mean, like they're big, you know, they're big whoop de crap because they bring a lot of money. Well, whatever. They are what they are, but they bring a lot of money to zoos. Because everyone likes those fluffy baby killing weirdos. They're mean, weird, like crazy dumb creatures.
+
+[15:42] You know what I mean? But uh, whatever, people love 'em. You know what I mean? I'm sure the message is a little bit more. Well, the weird thing is in the in the Chengdu, like in the breeding that the they call it the panda research center.
+
+[15:51] There are like two celebrity pandas, I guess, in China. You know, like TikTok celebrities. I don't even really know what that means. But the lines to see those were like huge. And I was confused.
+
+[15:59] And then you look around and there's all these other pandas everywhere else, and I'm like, does no one care about these? They're just in line for the celebrity pandas? Are they better dancers? Like what is it about the celebrity pandas that make sense? I don't know.
+
+[16:14] I don't know. It's a great. I'll I'll never know. Yeah. Because I didn't wait in the line.
+
+[16:18] Yeah, because why would you? I mean, like, uh I'm sorry. Like they're all they're giant pandas, right? I mean it's like I mean, the similar coloration, right? I mean, like, you know.
+
+[16:29] Anyway. Uh that's whatever. Whatever. Who knows? Who knows why certain pandas become TikTok stars?
+
+[16:36] It's just vagaries of vagaries of life. Anyway. Uh so no other no other food stuff before you go in hightail about your business in in Norwalk. I can't believe so. Before we get on the show, Jack's like, I'm in Connecticut.
+
+[16:48] For those for those of you that don't know Connecticut, doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. But Connecticut is a small state, but it's actually quite diverse. And uh for a state of its size. And uh you know, geologically people-wise. Anyway, uh so he's like, I'm in Stanford.
+
+[17:03] I was like, oh, Stanford. And I start insulting Stanford, as I normally do. And then he's like, actually, I'm in Norwalk. I'm like, why the hell would you say you're different place? Norwalk's got an aquarium.
+
+[17:11] I've heard their aquarium's nice and never been. How's their aquarium, Jack? I haven't been either. What that's wrong with you? Clearly, I don't I don't know where I am in Connecticut, obviously.
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+[17:21] I'm a mi I'm a mystic aquarium guy, partially designed by Caesar Pelley. Like, because you know, my family's up there, but whatever. All right, enough Connecticut fluffery. What do you got, Stas? What's the what's the week in Nastasia like?
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+[17:36] Um, nothing big. I went to Major domo last night, which is still good. Yeah. Um What do you have? Yeah.
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+[17:44] I had uh they have crude, like um types of crude, which is really, really, really good. And um and then that crispy rice and cauliflower. It was good. It was really freaking good. How was the cauliflower?
+
+[18:00] Um what style? Like a little burned on the outside in a good way, I mean, like charred? Fried, fried, fried, fried. Like fried crispy or fried without a battery? Uh light batter.
+
+[18:14] I like cauliflower a lot. Yeah. I remember once I made it for the family, and they cried, cried, cried. My two kids cried, cried, cried. I made it, I had this the cheese sauce all over it.
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+[18:27] I brought it out, cried. Wouldn't taste it. Didn't taste it. Cried. I love that stuff.
+
+[18:33] Anyway. Sorry, go ahead, Sas. Uh and then I visited Han at her new place, Mora Hero, which was really super good sushi. The chef gets imports his own rice on his land from Japan. Very good.
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+[18:49] Okay, so he bought a plot, he bought a plot of land in Japan, grows rice in it, and ships it back? Yeah. And was it noticeably different or just did a good job with the rice? Uh just did a good job. Um how were her beverages?
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+[19:09] Very, very good. Very good. Yeah. Was it was it? She's a classical flute composer, right?
+
+[19:17] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Classical flute composer. And we're gonna have her versus uh Captain Oily on Bansouri. You know what I mean?
+
+[19:26] Or maybe have her how about this? What if she writes a Bansouri piece, which is similar instrument, right, for Nick to play on the show? And then we'll have it like that. We'll like weave it all together. What about like dueling band series?
+
+[19:39] But I have a question. Dueling band series. Is that Nick or somebody else? Somebody else. Somebody else.
+
+[19:47] Anyway. All right. Hey, Sas, before you go on, do you remember the last time we were at Major Domo? Nick and play with this at the same time. When I was sitting next to your friend Pat, and Pat kept on getting full pours of wine, and they kept out like baby pores.
+
+[20:03] I was like, Well, what what am I? A 10 year old in an Italian restaurant? What the hell is this? You know what I mean? Like with a micro pour.
+
+[20:10] Remember this? And every time you would just look over my glasses, start laughing. Remember that? Yeah. Okay.
+
+[20:19] Wait, what are you cut out for a sec? What? Can I ask my question? Yeah, I didn't know you had one, sure. Yeah.
+
+[20:27] So I have this hummingbird that visits me every morning and like sits there and looks in and like every morning. And I have a hummingbird feeder, and it gets through the whole feeder in one week. Like, love loves it. But he's like is obsessed with me. What special thing can I feed it?
+
+[20:48] I mean as a treat. I I mean, like, you know, what's more treat than what it needs, which is just intense amounts of sugar. You know what I mean? Like those things are like, you know, wired to go. There's nothing more though.
+
+[21:00] There's nothing more that I can like pump into that to be like, here you go. I see you. I see you. Well, like uh, well, what do you do? Just sugar water?
+
+[21:09] I go, I do simple syrup, basically. Yeah. Yeah. How about it? You ready?
+
+[21:13] You ready? You ready for it? How about honey? Yeah. Rose.
+
+[21:18] Oh. Well, what flowers do they like in the real life? Like, it's coming, you're basically I know they're like trumpet vines because I we have hummingbirds in our backyard. Oh, yeah. I mean, Nastasia is basically uh she's providing like monster energy drink for this thing because it needs like massive amounts of energy to keep its like little weird wings flying.
+
+[21:41] By the way, you ever seen one of those um I forget what they're called, but there's these moths that fly at night, unlike hummingbirds, and the but they can hover like a hummingbird at a flower. They have them in Connecticut, but they're these weird, because I remember once at night I saw one at a flower. I'm like, what the heck? Wait, a hairier jet? It's the weirdest thing.
+
+[21:59] It's like a humming, and it's like the size of a hummingbird. It's a big moth that can hover and sit there at a flower and be like at night. I don't know what the hell they're called. No, no, no. No, no.
+
+[22:12] They have those uh a lot of those too. But like I saw that and I was like, oh man, you know what? It's nice that like you can get to be 50 something and like just look over your shoulder and be like, even in Connecticut and be like, what the hell is that? And see something you've never seen before. Yeah.
+
+[22:24] That's pretty special. Yeah, right? Yeah. I think so. Um so how about honey, Stasi?
+
+[22:29] Is that a good idea? But what if it hates the honey? I guess you'll find out. There's uh there's a purple flower that we have in front of her house where hummingbirds also come to, but also the it's called a butterfly bush. I don't recall the name of the product.
+
+[22:42] That bush will bring your hummingbirds. Huh. Well, because it must have like serious nectaries. It smells beautiful too. I get waffed, and I'm like, what is that?
+
+[22:50] Smell. Do you guys all grow up with honeysuckle? Eating honeysuckle? Of course. Yeah.
+
+[22:55] Point the centers. Oh, I love that. I love it. You know what I mean? Like, I remember any time, like my kids were never interested in that stuff, but any time a little kid, I'm like, uh two things I like to teach kids with flowers.
+
+[22:59] One, honeysuckle. And two, you pick up the dandelion. You know this trick, right? You pick up the dandelion, you put your thumb right underneath it, and you go, Mama had a baby and its head popped off. Boop.
+
+[23:15] And then you flick your thumb and you flick the head of the dandelion as far as you can, and I'm pretty good. So I can do like, you know, 15 feet probably off a dandelion head. And then you have these kids running around getting dandelions. Go, Mama had a baby and its head popped off. Boop.
+
+[23:31] No? You guys didn't do that. Didn't grow up with that? No. Popping babies' heads off?
+
+[23:36] No. Nope. Huh. No. Maybe it's just my family.
+
+[23:39] Could be one of those things that's just me. Yeah. Maybe. What's like that Ween song? Was that pushing up uh was the pushing up pushing up daisies?
+
+[23:49] Oh, I don't know. Oh gosh. I know some of Ween's I know some of Ween's UV or however you pronounce it. Give me the full French. Oeuvre.
+
+[23:58] I know some of Ween's uh output, but not all. Yeah. Uh Ween. He makes a mean tomato sauce. If we go to Dean Wien's website, his recipe for his family ragu is awesome.
+
+[24:12] For real. For real. All right. Do you know what I regret never having the I forget his name, but the corrupt former mayor who's now dead of uh Providence, Rhode Island, had a uh pasta sauce that he put out. And it was like had his face on it and everything.
+
+[24:28] And I never tried it. I feel bad. Anyway, uh, Quinn, what about you? I know you always got stuff. Well yeah, well, actually, today is uh Canadian Thanksgiving, but we did our dinner early on Saturday, and we did uh turkey mouli.
+
+[24:44] Okay. Today is Canadian Thanksgiving. Yeah. Well, happy Canadian Thanksgiving. So like what what is the classic Canadian Thanksgiving?
+
+[24:55] I mean, it's pretty similar. Turkey or ham. Like the food food scene is pretty similar. Yeah. But we always try and do something uh a little different usually.
+
+[25:06] So we made a mole with like thirty ingredients, neither grilled or toasted, ground it down, cooked it down into a paste, and then we braised the dark meat and stock and some mole. You know, I've only made mole a couple of times and not in the traditional way. You know what I mean? And then I remember visiting at uh if if uh Jack's still here, the Merced and seeing the like the mole, like the mole, like the people who sell the mole pastes and you get to choose all the pastes and they're like mounded up in these big buckets and they're glistening because they they grind 'em, you know what I mean? Like now they probably but like old school people who grind them like on um matates, like, oh sick.
+
+[25:59] Did you have chocolate? Obviously you had chocolate in it, right? Was it chocolate based one or not a chocolate based one? Oh yeah, we we we sort of seasoned it at the end of making the paste with a little bit of dark chocolate. We had some like classic like a Mexican drinking chocolate and a little bit of luckily produced uh dark chocolate.
+
+[26:20] Was it a wild turkey? 'Cause that would be traditional Huajalote. Uh I mean it was like uh a smaller heritage turkey from one of our farmer friends. I mean, turkeys are Mexican. And fresh flour tortillas that turned out great.
+
+[26:39] Uh okay, listen, don't get me started. So Quinn texts me over the weekend and I can't co-sign what you're doing. I think it's a terrible idea. He's like, I have some local soft wheat, I want to make tortillas. I'm like, why?
+
+[26:51] Why? So they like you had so do you did you have to pre-cook some of the starch? Well, yeah, I scalded half of the flour. Yeah. It worked great.
+
+[27:03] No, it it how do you know? Did you do it side by side with the correct flour? The issue with soft wheat, the issue with soft wheat, it puffed. He sent me a picture, it puffed. The issue with soft wheat is it doesn't have the correct chew.
+
+[27:17] You need there's not enough protein in it to get the correct chew. There's two issues. It's not just that you need a high hydration dough. It's that you need high hydration dough, high protein, low gluten, right? That's what Sonoran white can do for you.
+
+[27:32] That's why it was invented there. You know what I mean? But whatever. If you enjoyed it, I'm glad you enjoyed it. But my point is if I was gonna use a Canadian wheat for tortillas, the second best wheat would like in terms of those properties, Durham.
+
+[27:48] You can do a whole wheat durum, fine flour, and make not as good as Sonora and white, but a decent tortilla. Surprisingly, you wouldn't expect Durham to make a good anything other than what it's good at, right? Like weird breads from Italy, really weird breads. Like I'm not a huge fan of those weird semolina breads. Yeah.
+
+[28:05] And Durham semolina breads and uh and pasta, right? Also, surprisingly, you can make a tortilla with it. I'm not saying it's the best tortilla. Maybe it's a little too high in protein, a little too much chew. You know what I mean?
+
+[28:19] But it's flinty as hell. If you take a uh like a grain of wheat, I say this a million times, put it in your mouth, chew on it, you get an instant sense, not of the protein, but hard versus soft, right? And you want this the softer a grain is, the harder it is to mill fine because it glazes your stones over, right? It's not true in a in a roller mill because it doesn't matter. But if you're doing stone grinding, especially stone grinding at home with a small wheel, as soon as you get a soft wheat, you instantly have to back off on your stones or it it glazes over.
+
+[28:53] And I'm not talking like after like pounds. I'm talking like like three, four hundred grams in, you could glaze your stones if you go too hard on uh on a soft, on a very soft wheat. Like I'm talking like US South soft, which are they're delicious, by the way. You you had uh soft white, or you had soft white. Do they tell you the variety?
+
+[29:14] Yeah. No, that I I have to reach out to my like contact. Yeah. The only soft white I ever had was one called Frederick. Delicious.
+
+[29:25] But I also like soft red, but soft reds are never sold by variety, almost never sold by variety, strangely. You know what I mean? But so how much of the how what was your total final hydration, including the cooked stuff? About 64. Yeah.
+
+[29:42] That's low for it. That's low for uh for it for that, but but if it puffed, I saw the picture, it puffed. I also made them yesterday with snoring white. Everything puffed like a maniac. And it could chew.
+
+[29:56] Why don't you why'd you get the real wheat? Why do you want to do it with soft wheat? Or is it just I need to do something? I need to make the tortillas today, and this is the wheat I have. Was that was what it was?
+
+[30:06] Yeah, we're we're making turkey moolets. I have all the smoking wheat. Uh-huh. So we're making tortillas. Okay.
+
+[30:14] I'll tell you what, you know what soft wheat's delicious in? Pancakes. Biscuits. Pancakes and biscuits. Delicious.
+
+[30:24] Um the other good news for people who are interested in in uh soft wheat is that when you grind it yourself, because the brand is still there, it does absorb more water than um than it would normally as a soft wheat. Anyway, whatever. Enough of that. Uh all right, what else you got? Oh, we have a caller?
+
+[30:47] Wow. All right. On a Monday, caller, you're on the air. Hey. Hey guys, this is Patrick calling from Brooklyn.
+
+[30:55] First, uh greater Utica uh Chamber of Commerce and its affiliates would would uh like to congrat again. Thank you for your uh uh love of the Utica grind. Well uh it's it's rightfully deserved to happen. It's rightfully deserved. This is the greatest greatest thing to happen to the Utica Metro and in in a century.
+
+[31:16] So, you know, I think I I think I think you're uh calling it God pepper flake needs to be on the on the container of this. I'm happy for that. I'm happy for them to do it. I'm trying to convince Wiley, I tried to convince, even though Wiley, my brother-in-law, stretch pizza, Wiley Dufrain, he doesn't personally like chili flakes and doesn't put them on his restaurant. But I'm like, you gotta get if you're gonna have any chili flake in the house, you need Utica grind.
+
+[31:39] Double ground. Come on. You know what I mean? Why doesn't everybody do this? Yeah.
+
+[31:45] So my question is completely unrelated to the chili flake, but there's there's much amusement in my family, which has various connections about this, about your love of this. So I had I'd I'd tell you this is a home home martini question. Okay. Not not complicated. It's basically what the only thing I make at home, um, cocktail wise, is in general martinis.
+
+[32:08] I keep gin in the freezer, right? Not mixed as a martini and vermouth in the refrigerator because I use the vermouth for other stuff in cooking and I like different ratios. So Michael Rolman has a thing of basically just mixing, just mixing in the glass of I think his ratio is something like 3.5 ounces of I forget which gin with the vermouth in some cold water and mixing in the glass with bitters. Is there any function do you think without you know actually putting a thermometer on it, there's really any functional temperature difference between diluting that way on the fly, diluting over ice and having loss? Are you really getting chilling there at all?
+
+[32:54] And I think the second part of that question is when the bulk of it is in the freezer in a home setting, does chilling the glass even do that much? Because I find that in a a regular um martini glass or you know, Nick and Nora, I really don't like the condensation that you get with chilling the glass in the freezer. Sounds like you need liquid nitrogen. Sounds like what you need is not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen in my apartment.
+
+[33:21] So okay, a lot a lot going on there. So the one thing that I haven't tested in there that you didn't specifically bring up, but uh and there's the also the movement of most most all of my chilling tests are with uh are with room temperature booze. Okay. I did when I was writing the the original edition of the book a million years ago, also test the finished temperature of taking gin directly out of the fr uh freezer and or actually Manhattan mix, not I didn't do a martini, Manhattan mix, so the vermouth and the and the spirit together out of the freezer and then adding uh cold water to it and seeing where the temperature evened out. Strangely, uh as uh as liquor dilutes, it heats up by like several degrees.
+
+[34:10] So you you end up getting uh even if you go directly from the freezer and use cold but not ice water, you end up with a drink that is about the temperature you would get. I had to go look it up because I didn't know I was gonna have these to know these numbers off the top of my head, right? But you get a drink that is cold enough, but not necessarily as cold as you might think. You know what I'm saying? Um the one test I haven't done that, you know, I pr I don't know if I'm gonna get a chance to do before I hand it in, but I should do is the technique of stirring with cold liquids, right?
+
+[34:45] Because well, this is this is this is is the it is interesting too, because the corollary here is that with Simonson's martini book. Again, like I'm not I'm basically a martini drinker, you know, especially at home is that I kind of got in during the summer into his advocacy or you know, not even advocacy, but he mentions martini on the rocks as you know its own genre of the drink. But that with pre pre-freezer gin is also kind of interesting because it's to me it's unclear what's both happening from dilution standpoint and just like you know what happens to the drink over time too as the ice more you know, it doesn't even necessarily I mean it's melting, but much slower. So there's something else going on there, which is satisfying in its own way is an appreciation of both you know chilling and dilution over time. Yeah, well, as with Quinn's soft wheat tortillas, I'm can't co-sign putting ice into a martini for any reason uh after it's been served.
+
+[35:48] But um, you know, uh remember that unless a product is frozen, and in order there are ice crystals in it, it is not at its freezing temperature yet, right? So if you put ice in, you will get further dilution. Now I'm gonna say that like if you're just taking straight booze with no dilution and drinking it, it better be at freezer temperature, and you're gonna get liquored up mighty quick because remember, Roman's a tall guy. That's that's the duke, that's the duped martini. Yeah, but all of those ones, if you actually look at them, they add water to them and dilute them somewhat.
+
+[36:22] Rolman, very tall guy, so maybe he can handle martini after martini with three ounces of uh of gin in them. But uh that's a lot. You know what I mean? That's a lot. Um, you know, I'm uh old Fogy myself, so I like a wetter martini than I would make for like what's your what's your ratio?
+
+[36:43] I I end up liking like 2.5 to 1. All right. Sorry, not three, sorry, not 2.5, two and a half ounces to a half uh half ounce vermuting. Oh, five to one. Five to one, sorry, yeah, yeah.
+
+[36:57] I'm thinking of the ounces. Five five to one, just depends on the gin. So that's standard. That's standard, yeah. So I like I like a more vermouth y lighter one, but um yeah.
+
+[37:08] I'm not sure if I'm answering your question. So give me No, that's like I I didn't know if there was it was an answer. It was just sort of like, but I think you're getting there, is that the it's not quite as cold as I would think it should be, based on just the gin being in the freezer. So but you seem to we seem to be getting somewhere at least with that. Yeah, so like if you're not it's not that cold.
+
+[37:29] If you have uh I I don't remember whether I wrote I don't remember whether I wrote the exact answer down, but I measured it. So it if you I don't again, I don't have my old book, but if you look at the Manhattan section, it's a very similar problem. Uh and you can look at the um I think I measured the final temperature of the drink by taking just batch out and then dumping it in with uh water. I think I measured that final temperature. But the last vanguard is to figure out how much dilution you get if you stir a legit stir with um with ice.
+
+[38:03] And it will get marginally colder. It won't get colder than freezer temperature because that's not gonna happen. You know, that's that the funny thing is that that's still the most satisfying one, even that there's a little more loss. Like something about and I was like, is it psychological that I'm just doing the mixing? And it's it uh but it sounds like it might actually be slightly colder as well, just in in in in in you know, some some level of of science without measuring it.
+
+[38:28] If you stir them or make whatever one you like, they get because the other thing is remember, stirring like you want more dil, but you want more dilution than I think people think. You know what I mean? Especially like if it if it's colder, I would stir it. Put it, try this. Stir a normal martini, like a normal person martini, then put it into a 20-ounce soda bottle.
+
+[38:44] A couple of them, a couple of martinis. Put them in a 20-ounce soda bottle, squeeze all the air out, throw the cap in, then throw it in the f freezer for like 35 minutes. Wait for it, you know, don't let it freeze. But if it gets a little syrupy, that's fine. Then pull it out.
+
+[39:02] It won't have oxidized because you've excluded the air. Pour that into your glass and see what you think. Let me know. All right. Some experiments are about to be run.
+
+[39:14] Exactly. Great. Awesome. Well, keep enjoying the pepper flake. I will.
+
+[39:18] Thanks. Although I you know what? I need to get the original one is still not bad. It wasn't back in stock the last time I checked. So I'm getting the one from a spice company that's like, you know, like 15 minutes outside of Utica.
+
+[39:28] So I hope it's the Metro, but the real brand is the A Vico A B. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I C L. But it's hard to get down here right now. Yeah.
+
+[39:37] It's not on the evil. I may I maybe I will I will be up in Utica over at least in Christmas time, which is the traditional stocking stuff for where I go to Christmas. If I don't if you don't obtain any by then, there might be some coming uh cooking issues way. That sounds good. Appreciate it.
+
+[39:54] Awesome. Thank you. Thanks. Well, thanks for the calling. And John, why don't you explain how people can call and be Patreon members?
+
+[39:59] Yeah, go to Patreon.com slash cooking issues. There you will find everything that you want, including uh call numbers, links to listen list or feeds or links to the live feeds, um, different membership levels. Um, at all the different membership levels, you get access to our Discord with a community of like-minded people. Uh, you get discounts of kitchen arts and letters and really just a whole bunch of great things. So check it out at patreon.com/slash cooking issues.
+
+[40:24] And speaking of Patreon guests, Kirk g uh questions. Kirk Gibson says, I have a few rotovap experiments have been unsuccessful because rotary evaporator is uh is a vacuum still that you have to suck a vacuum on, right? Uh because they foam up too much when dropping the uh the pressure and they risk boiling over into the condensing flask, which sucks, by the way. It's had happened many times. I've had this issue with mozzarella vodka, feta vodka, and now Reese's peanut butter cup vodka.
+
+[40:48] I expect that the protein structure and/or emulsifiers is doing it. Does anyone have any recommendations? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Well, uh, this, like many problems, can be solved with money. So uh you they make these uh uh boil over sensors that go in through the through the uh the the rotary sleeve thing into the flask, and then as soon as they sense that liquid or anything is hitting them, they open the vacuum and let it die back down.
+
+[41:17] The truth of the matter is with most of these things, now I don't know with milk, milk is a nightmare. With most of these things, eventually they'll settle down, right? So if you're distilling, right, once you get through the initial boil. So we used to only fill our flasks like a quarter of the way up or you know, or less when something was going to be really foamy. And then usually after the first three or four foam ups, right, it'll go into a rolling situation where you can get it to go without foaming into your flask.
+
+[41:45] Now, every once in a while it would just go crazy. And you can't do Nastasia's magic trick of adding pectanex, which is what we would do to fruits. We would add pectanex to the mix so that it would knock out the the pectin, so it would stop the boil over. That's how nastasias saved us with uh hot pepper uh product. Remember that, Stas?
+
+[42:05] Yeah, man. Those are the days that we're gonna be able to do that. Those were the days. Yeah. I'm not gonna get into whether you should be licking a rotary evaporator to test whether it's spicy because it's just too contentious.
+
+[42:14] But yeah, that was Nastasia's uh, you know, Nastasia's like genius stroke with the rotary evaporator. But with this, uh there's that. There's also it really depends on your vacuum controller. We used to have uh I had a foot pedal that I had installed into mine that had a solenoid attached to it that would just immediately open the vacuum, uh, you know, open up the system to drop to kill foam, like a foam kill switch. And you would just wait for the thing to go down, and then if it was about to boil over, because it goes, it's really weird in Stasi back me up on this.
+
+[42:45] It goes from like fine, fine, fine, fine toast. It just like boom, it just like shoots. It makes a we used to call it like run for the border, like taco belt with like boom, it would just shoot through the thing and then everything's ruined. So like you have to be real quick. You have to have a very fast way to uh to you know, um kill the vacuum if it's gonna boil over.
+
+[43:06] They also make these discs uh and these condenser uh attachments that go in that are uh boiler killers that are like uh frit. You can use stainless steel frit. We used to shove Scotchbrite pads in to the uh condenser coil because then what happens is is that as it tries to rock it through, unless it's gonna rock it through a lot, if it's just a little bit that's gonna spit through, it's not gonna make it through the uh it's not gonna make it through the um, what's it called? The scotch bright. The other, the other one you can do is they make something called a bump flask, and a bump flask is another kind of get out of jail free thing.
+
+[43:37] It's a little mini ball that um stops the the boil over before it makes it through into your condenser, right? So those are the three things. But you know, milk's a real pain in the real pain in the behind. I don't know of any chemical that will uh that will stop milk, and I still have I'm still triggered by milk exploding uh when I was trying to carbonate it. I think there's a question on that later.
+
+[44:01] Anyway, Rock Baker says, My Apple Lady says the heirlooms are displaying a good amount of watercore this season. What's the deal with watercore? FYI uh cox orange pips available this weekend and ash meats kernel next. I'm so excited, so am I. And I I have a project I want to do.
+
+[44:14] I don't know if I'm gonna get to do it. So watercore, for those of you that have never had a watercore apple, in some places it's prized, right? So like, you know, uh Japanese, in fact, there was an article, I don't know, like 12 years ago on uh a 40-year study of Japanese apples, Fuji's and a couple of other ones, saying that climate change is making apples taste different, so that apples now taste different than they did 40 years ago based on where they're grown, right? So like I'm sure the same taste got shifted up a couple of uh, you know, a hundred miles or whatever. But it's interesting, interesting.
+
+[44:47] So, but also water core has gone down. So in general, water core happens in cooler uh environments. When you cut into an apple that has water core, it can travel anywhere from actually where the core is all the way out. It looks kind of translucent, like it's been like it's been vacuum-infused or candied. And some people love watercore because uh it's got sorbit it's got extra sorbitol in it, so it's sweeter.
+
+[45:09] In fact, that's what causes it. There's a buildup of sorbitol in the apple, and um like water rushes into that area because of the excess sorbitol, and so you get this kind of water core thing. And it doesn't hurt the apple, and some people love water core apples even more, but it's often it's often uh, and I don't think anyone knows exactly why you might get it one time and then not another, right? They can't produce it if they want and then not if they don't. I think it's like a catch-is catch can kind of a situation.
+
+[45:35] But um if you um the longer you leave them on the tree, so like older apples, uh in other words, uh for a season, older apples are more likely to get water core as they sit. So it's often for a particular variety, it the later you harvest it, the more it's more likely to have watercore. So it's also associated with a lot of things that late, you know, harvesting too late can do. So more floral, lower in acid, uh, higher in sugar, uh, all these other things. Yep.
+
+[46:05] Other problem with watercore is that they're not good for storage, right? So uh modern storage techniques like don't play well with water cored apples. And so i long story short, if you like water cored apples, go for it. And as long as you're not gonna try to keep them. Yeah.
+
+[46:24] Are they good for making apple heads? Apple headed dolls, boots with the fur. Yeah, of course. Why not? Yeah, sure.
+
+[46:31] No, water water core. Yeah, why wouldn't they? I mean, they would I think they dry out. In fact, they might be more preserved. You know what I mean?
+
+[46:37] Plus you're gonna soak them out. I mean, every apple is good for apple head doll. In other words, like every I mean, I would do it with an apple that I wouldn't eat, you know what I mean? Like a delicious. Yeah.
+
+[46:47] You know what I mean? Like I think every red delicious, especially the modern red delicious. I said this, the original Stark Brothers delicious, which actually had chutes of green going through it. It wasn't the apple that we had now. The apple we have now is like a sport of a you know, they're all genetic clones, right?
+
+[47:02] You guys know that, right? But uh like apples have what's called sports. So a particular branch might have it slightly different, like a mutation that makes it slightly different. And so the current red quote unquote delicious is like a sport of a sport of the original Stark uh brothers nursery. The original Red Delicious is fine.
+
+[47:21] It's a fine dessert apple, uh, i.e. not high in acid. Uh, but the current ones, I think their only good use is uh apple head dolls, and add to the fact that they're already shaped like Frankenstein's head, and that's a it's like a double win. Every, like every school kid when they're handed a red delicious apple should be like, now give me a knife because I need to make an apple head doll. Stas, am I right about this?
+
+[47:47] Yes. I actually had a tasting of apples from I'm not gonna say where which farm, but they only grew here in California, Red Delicious, Granny Smith, uh, what's another generic one? I can't remember. And we tasted them, and I was with people who don't know anything about anything food related, and they were like, My God, these are so wow. They were they were terrible.
+
+[48:09] And I said, These are terrible. And I don't everyone thought I was being mean, but like no one knows where I come from. So whatever, you know. Well, so okay, so this dovetails with an idea that I had back when I was in the art world, right? And you could do you could do this, because I got like so sick of like the openings and all this, right?
+
+[48:31] So, but you could do the same thing with with food where everyone's going in and there's because there's this collective desire for everything to be good all the time, right? You know what I mean? Because like you spent time and energy and money, and so you want it to be good. This is the problem also when you're making your own stuff. The longer time you spend working on a recipe or an idea, the more apt you are to think it's good even when it's not good.
+
+[48:54] Or like when you learned it, you know, anytime you learn something new and you put a lot of investment in it, you you you you hope so much that it's good that you convince yourself that it is. Or when you go to those crappy interactive shows and you spend like a hundred dollars a piece for your whole family of four to go, and you're like, it was good, right? I I didn't just throw away four hundred dollars, right? So same thing. Yeah, same thing, exactly.
+
+[49:14] Like you, as soon as you go to the apple orchard, the apple says it's better. Right, right. So Stas should start in in LA. What? Yeah, so I've been going to a lot of art shows, openings and stuff, and it's what you're talking about.
+
+[49:29] And I've been working on this art project that I'm going to do and submit, and it's so effed. And the more I talk about it with art world people, they're like, Yeah, oh my god, yeah. But it's just an experiment, and it's so effed up. Well, and I'll tell you what I was gonna do back in the day. This was the 90s, back when I was still like trying to be a showing artist, right?
+
+[49:54] And I would never do this because I don't really have the stones, and I don't like being mean to people, but you just walk into any show, preferably a good show, and be like, this show sucks, and then walk out. Like with like a group of people walk in and then just do that. But you could do that to like like food things too. You know what I mean? Just be, and then you're like well known for it, and then people would hope you're gonna come, like regardless of whether it's good or bad.
+
+[50:15] They're like, Oh my god, is nostasi gonna this food sucks. Just show up and then walk out. You know what I mean? You could be the person known for doing that. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[50:24] I don't I don't like it. I want to I want to do this experiment where I do something. Yeah, all right. All right. Um, good luck.
+
+[50:33] Let me know. Um that reminds me of the guy who who rolls up as a carpet and hangs out at nightclubs and bars and hopes that people step on him. Really? Yeah. Strong.
+
+[50:42] He was here in the studio one time. Weird dude. Do people step on him? Yeah, they step on him all and he really enjoys it. He rolls up in a carpet, he plants himself at the bar.
+
+[50:51] People like trip over him, he gets kicked, and people put their legs on him, and it's kind of a joke. He kind of is. It's weird. Very weird. Do you remember the Jeffersons, the show?
+
+[51:01] Of course. They're the condos right here. Really? Deluxe apartment in the sky? Really?
+
+[51:06] Oh my God. Anyway, so it was uh uh who is the guy that liked to get walked on in that show? Is that the neighbor? Anyway. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[51:17] Anyway. Um there was another question in here. Oh, I've been preserving our bounty of uh stuff, peppers, uh, with a lot of lactofermented uh stuff. What's the go-to way to prevent separation in these concoctions? Well, good news, the answer to that is easy.
+
+[51:33] Xanthan gum. Uh, I would use 2.5 grams per kilo of sauce, uh, whisk it in. And the good news is is that while Xanthan is degraded over time by many bacteria, uh, it is not degraded by acid, and it is not degraded by lacto uh you know LAB, lac lactic acid uh bacteria uh strains typically. So it is pretty stable in hot sauces, and I've had hot sauces. Uh the longest I've kept one of my own is a year, right?
+
+[52:04] But like a year with uh Xanthan, and it's fine, and I would use about a quarter of a percent, right? It's not gonna get snotty at that point. So that was an easy one. Hopefully that's solved. Tony Tony Tony writes in.
+
+[52:15] Um this is more uh uh peppers. I was blessed uh with my biggest crop ever of organic Scotch bonnet peppers. I think I got 25. You know what's weird? Peppers, they take a lot of space because they need so much sun, right?
+
+[52:26] So like you think you're gonna you plant these pepper plants, you think you're gonna get a lot. At least I've never gotten a lot. I'm sure in California you can get a crap ton of peppers, right, Stas? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[52:36] Do you like growing peppers? Do you grow those? I always grow. We all grow them, but what do you use them for? You know?
+
+[52:44] I don't know. I mean, I just went through 15 pounds or so of my standard uh I wait for the red jalapenos to come in and then like I process them and then I eat them all year. So I just bought like 15 pounds and might buy another 15 pounds. Anyway. Uh this weekend uh to run a marathon and would like to take some Scotch Bonnet peppers home and make hot sauce with them.
+
+[53:08] Unfortunately, I'll see her on Saturday and she won't be getting back to Green Point until Tuesday. She won't have access to a fridge for most of the time. And since I've never made uh hot sauce, and since usually I use the peppers right out of the garden, I'm wondering if someone with more experience with fresh hot peppers and hot sauce could recommend how I should package them for her. She's asked for 18. Will they be okay wrapped in a paper towel and put in one of those eco-produce bags and stuff in your luggage?
+
+[53:29] Yeah. Here's the good news. Peppers are not like tomatoes. They are not ripened by ethylene. So you can put them as long as they're not gonna rot, as long as they're dry, right?
+
+[53:39] They're not gonna rot. And they don't need to be at fridge temperatures the entire time. It's gonna be totally fine going, you know, as long as it doesn't freeze and we get freeze damage, it's gonna be totally fine uh being wherever. That your main goal thing is you don't want them to mold and you don't want them to like, you know, get wet, wet and soupy, but they're not gonna get senescent like uh like a tomato or banana wood because ethylene gas does not ripen peppers. So in terms of ethylene, they're non climacteric fruit.
+
+[54:07] Interestingly, they do ripen with time. So if you want them to ripen more, you can put them in the windowsill because they respond to light. So if you put light onto a pepper, it's not dead yet, it will still respire and ripen, but not because of ethylene. So I think you're gonna be fine. Did I answer that one?
+
+[54:22] Well, you think? All right. Uh Wilku, I made about two liters, that's a lot, of walnut butter, where I've roasted the walnut skin on and added it to a wet grinder. The flavor post grind is it's insanely astringent. Yeah, because you left the skins on.
+
+[54:36] Uh I've added some sugar to try to take the edge off, and that helped a bit. I think it's currently plenty sweet, and I don't want to keep adding sugar. The flavor is great at the start, but when the oil dissolve away in your tongue, the astringency rears its ugly head, I'm pretty surprised that the walnut butter is so astringent. I've done the same with hazelnuts and pecans with very good success. Is there anything I can do to selectively hide or remove astringency, or do I save uh save it, slash change it into something else, or am I hooped in and need to start again with skinned walnuts?
+
+[55:03] Well, yeah, I don't know of anything other than maybe using it in milk preps. Like if you if you add a lot of casein or uh, you know, I don't think adding direct casein to it will help, but like if it's used in a milk-based product, the milk might cut some of the astringency from the skins. But you you need to take the skins off those walnuts next time. I don't know of it. This is why a lot of people don't like walnuts.
+
+[55:27] You know what I mean? But this is why m everyone needs to get, and Stas knows where I'm going with this, some of McGee's fancy nuts. If you can get a hold of McGee's fancy walnuts, those things have almost no astringency at all. But I do not know of a way to selectively remove the taste of astringency in your mouth other than mixing it in with a protein like casein that will bind with the uh with like those astringent tannin nodes in the skin. Anyone else got ideas for that?
+
+[55:57] If you're gonna combine it with milk. Yeah, that'll probably help. Like any milk based crap will probably help. But you know, in terms of like wanting to spread it on toast, I don't know. I don't know.
+
+[56:08] I don't know. Uh Phil Stan writes in, hey, not cooking, but cooking it, Jason. I bought my first rice cooker a couple of weeks ago. Well, congratulations, Phil Stan. Uh, and have recently discovered weevils in my kitchen.
+
+[56:19] No congratulations. Congratulations removed. Uh I had to look them up since I've never seen them before. I'm wondering what's a good way to keep them away. I'm looking at buying some grain containers uh with a compartment for putting in bug repellents, but it doesn't seem to be any reviews about them being effective.
+
+[56:32] Yeah, I wouldn't, I don't know. I've never used that. Here's the thing. And rice is often like where you're gonna get a lot of weevils uh in rice because they're stored in big bags in stores a lot, and the bags aren't necessarily a hundred percent impervious. Weevils can chew through small bags, and once one bag just takes a couple of eggs in it in your toast.
+
+[56:54] So here's what I would do. I had it happen to a sack of flour the other day that wasn't, it was the only thing I had in my kitchen that wasn't sealed. I put everything into sealed jars, right? Sealed, right? So you can um and then once they're in a sealed jar, even if you get a problem with one, it's not gonna transfer to all of your other stuff.
+
+[57:18] I mean, I have so many pounds of grain in my tiny apartment kitchen that if I lost it all, it would be a huge nightmare. And it's happened in in the past. So getting rid of oxygen is one of the answers. So you can put uh if if you're gonna store a lot of stuff down, sealing it will save whatever you have done. Freezing it will save uh freezing will kill anything, but it's it's a lot for someone like me to freeze everything to kill all the weevil things.
+
+[57:42] So I would store everything in just airtight. You can use oxygen reducers so you can get the oxygen reducers and throw them in, and that will kill everything as long as you don't uh open them again. But just sealing everything. I I don't know about a bug, I wouldn't put a bug repellent in any food thing that uh I I use. I would just use removal of oxygen, which is what I do.
+
+[57:59] WizMerd says, uh, this is a question uh for the Discord, but also the pod crew. I was enchanted by the idea behind Dock and Dish on last week's episode. Does anyone know of anything like that on the West Coast? I do not, but maybe someone who's a West Coast person can write in and let us know. Uh Wenrick says, I have some peak season strawberries that a friend freeze dried for me.
+
+[58:18] I would like to make some ice cream with them, but resources out there are limited. Stella Parks has a no-churn freeze-dry blueberry ice cream that doesn't look great. Is there any paper suggest uh and there is a paper that suggests that 3% by uh base weight of crushed strawberries might work? But does anyone have experience? I've not used freeze-dried in ice cream.
+
+[58:34] Uh, have you, Quinn? Uh I haven't yet. Yeah. I mean, you should be able to calculate like how much sugar it's bringing, roughly. Well, he said it doesn't look good.
+
+[58:48] I don't know whether you say it doesn't taste good or it doesn't look good. If it doesn't look good, mmm, food coloring. Uh well, we'll think about that. We'll get back to you. From Davis, I want to hear your perspective on cocktail and beer pairings for a prefi menu.
+
+[59:00] Oh man, we're gonna spend more time. I have I need more than 30 seconds on that. Uh so we'll get back to that. Sasha says I found a bottle of Jaegermeister on my pantry. Dave mentioned that one of the pre-Berlin episodes that he would share his spritz spec.
+
+[59:11] Here it is. 60 mils Jaegermeister, 7.5 mils of glass it, which I've given the recipe out. I think it's on the Patreon thing. Uh 7.5 uh mils of lemon cordial acid adjusted up to uh lemon acidity, uh 22.5 uh mils, that's three quarters of an ounce of polydextrose 5050 uh syrup, which is not sweet, and 97.5 of water. Remember, I have to add the sugar because uh or the cordial because Jaegermeister is relatively not sweet.
+
+[59:37] Uh all right, Ray. I'm gonna get to your question hopefully next week about carbonated uh like milk products. It's a pain. We'll talk about it, and I have a couple other questions. We'll try to get to it along with our chef of the week next week.
+
+[59:50] This has been cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City News Stance Studios. Joined with John, how are you doing, John? Doing great, thanks. Great.
+
+[0:21] I also got uh Joe Hazen rocking the panels behind me. Hey, hey, hi. Welcome. Yeah, and due uh to the fact that for once uh Amazon is the one that's uh taking it. Uh we uh we aren't uh able to have any of our West Coast uh or upper left corner folks, so it'll just be you know, for our normal crew, the three of us here, we won't be able to take your live calls.
+
+[0:44] Sorry, Patreon folks. But we do have uh special guest in the show today, uh Diane uh uh Cochillis. Am I pronouncing it correctly, Cochilles? Perfectly. All right.
+
+[0:54] Uh she is uh you know, how many cookbooks do you have? Uh and if you count the American the English ones, eleven. If you count the ones that I've done in Greek, uh probably about 20 in total. So like one one or two. Like one.
+
+[1:10] And uh you can, I mean, hopefully we'll talk about it. Uh PBS show, uh My Greek Table, uh with uh Diane Klchillis. Uh it's done four seasons, but is it in trouble now with the whole No, we're just about to air season five on October 24th. I mean, like what's going on with PBS world? Well, it's the smaller stations that are gonna hurt more than the bigger ones.
+
+[1:30] So uh we're gonna we're we're out there. Uh we'll be we'll be streaming, we'll be going live on the 24th, starting to roll out. All right, nice. It's a great season. Yeah, cool.
+
+[1:41] Uh so anyway, so uh you're here though because uh you just came out with a new book, uh Food Stories, Love, Athens, a cookbook. And uh, do we I don't I don't have Quinn, so I can't tell whether we have it, but normally for our kitchen for our Patreon members, they get a discount of Kitchen Arts and Letters. I'm sure we set that up. I'm sure we do, yeah. So, you know, for those of you who are members of Patreon, pick it up, please at Kitchen Arts and Letters uh if you can, as opposed to Don't say it.
+
+[2:08] Uh yeah. I mean, listen, it really is important uh to support your local uh well they're not local if you if you have to order from online, but they're they're real actual human beings that care about their customers, so support them if you can. Uh well you're ex-New Yorker, so did you used to go there when you lived here? Kitchen Arts and Letters, oh yeah. Yeah.
+
+[2:25] Great folks. I mean, I remember Knock, you know, very well. Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, obviously he's you know passed away, but you know, Matt is uh still uh going great guns over there, and he comes on the show every uh every once in a while to talk about whatever's new and new and cool or old and cool in uh cookbooks. So anyway, so this is normally the portion of the show uh where we uh just talk about any kind of food stuff that's happened in the in the last week or so or anything that you know is new coming up in food that uh you've enjoyed. So you have anything interesting over the past week then?
+
+[2:57] In Athens or in New York? Wherever. It's up to you. Uh in Athens there's a lot going on. Uh the city is constantly reinventing itself.
+
+[3:04] Now it's it's sort of on an upswing. Uh lots of young chefs, uh kind of the internet generation. I mean, you know, uh I'm uh probably twice the age of ha most of these people nowadays, but uh lots of interesting food, a lot of reinventing Greek classics. Uh here in New York, uh there's a lot of new stuff that's opened in the Greek sort of realm, but I haven't been yet. I just got here a couple of days ago.
+
+[3:28] Oh, yeah, yeah. How long are you staying? I'm staying in the States uh this time around for a month. Yeah. Where where do you used to live in New York?
+
+[3:34] What neighborhood? I grew up in Jackson Heights. Okay, cool. Yeah. Like, well, talk about good food, huh?
+
+[3:38] Great food, yeah. Uh all right. Send uh John, what do you got for me this week? I've got two things. One, I did some Baltimore pit beef for family meal.
+
+[3:48] So what's Baltimore pit beef? Bottom round beef. Okay. Yeah. Um salt, pepper, and done on the charcoal grill.
+
+[3:57] Uh-huh. And just so it gets that like light charcoal smoke, served medium rare on a sandwich with what they call tiger sauce, which is just worth radish and mayo and sliced raw in, but yeah. Why tiger sauce? Horseradish and mayo. I don't know.
+
+[4:09] The white tigers. What does tiger have to do with horseradish? Couldn't tell you. I don't know. What does the carnivore have to do with horseradish?
+
+[4:15] Listen. Horseradish on beef. Can't go wrong. Yeah, yeah. Can't go wrong.
+
+[4:19] Except for you know what my son, Dax. Booker obviously doesn't eat it, but Dax for some reason hates horseradish. Isn't that the dumbest thing? I grew up weird. Grew up on the lower east side of New York City and hates horseradish.
+
+[4:29] Yeah. No sense. You know what that means? Means I'm a bad parent. You know what the thing is is like for those of you that are like just raising your kids now, you can't force your kids to like things.
+
+[4:37] It's weird. Like you could have you could be the pickiest person in the world. Your kid could eat everything, or vice versa. You know, you just can't control it. I don't know.
+
+[4:45] Uh so how was your uh Baltimore pit beef? It was delicious. Yeah. Yeah, really good. What kind of bread did you eat the sandwich on?
+
+[4:52] Uh Martin's potato rolls. Ah, okay. Sure. All right, so soft. Yeah.
+
+[4:57] And that is the standard. Um I think it's more like Kaiser Roll rubber. But uh can't get a good Kaiser roll in New York, strangely. Even though in the 70s and 80s, like we were the Kaiser roll like epicenters at Universe. Exactly.
+
+[5:09] Yeah. Can't can't get a good Kaiser Old Connecticut, you can. Yes, very true. Very true. Yeah.
+
+[5:14] And the other fun thing I did with the charcoal on, this is my first time doing this, but I've seen it done on the internets. Um, was dropping coals right into heavy cream, throwing a lid on the pot and just kind of letting it burn and smoke itself. I like that it yielded a really interesting flavor. Good. Okay, hold up.
+
+[5:32] Yeah. First of all, where is where is this what culture does this come from? I have no idea. I just saw it on the Instagram. Okay.
+
+[5:41] And what kind of co what kind of coals? Like real coal or like briquettes? Real coal. Okay. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[5:46] On the Instagram? Are they doing it with like freaking Kingston like compressed charcoal briquettes that are half petroleum by product? No, no. Like they're doing it with the fancy Japanese one. Like binsha tan.
+
+[5:56] Yeah, exactly. Okay. And it doesn't break the cream, the high heat doesn't break the cream. No. Okay.
+
+[6:01] And it does something uh pleasurable to the cream. Yeah. Okay. What? How hot are the coal?
+
+[6:07] Ashed? Like red hot. So just flame just died down, hasn't gone white. It's glowing. Yes.
+
+[6:15] Exactly. Alright. So it's starting to go white, but it's still glowing. Yes. Okay.
+
+[6:19] So you pull it out of the center of the fire. Yes. Okay. And you toss it in. Yep.
+
+[6:23] Into a pot with a heavy cream in it, and then throw the lid on it as soon as the coal's in there because otherwise it starts sputtering everywhere. Yeah, so I'm trying to picture this pot. How much cream, how big a pot? Two quarts of cream. Jesus.
+
+[6:34] All right. Two quarts of cream. All right. Not that much. And like in so it's one of these saucepans.
+
+[6:40] Um, and probably like a four-quart pot. Okay, so the pot's half full. Yeah. All right. How much how much of this uh fancy bing chaton you throwing in?
+
+[6:48] I didn't use fancy binge chaton, I just used some Canadian hardwood coal. Canadians, yeah. All right. Um probably like six or seven pieces. Cool.
+
+[6:57] Okay. Yeah. So not like a little like so. Can you do that for olive oil? Is that how you smoke olive oil?
+
+[7:05] I mean, I don't know. I would I would not want to put that kind of heat on to olive. That's what I was thinking of. If you were going to use it for I mean, obviously we do when we cook, but not for finishing. Right.
+
+[7:12] Yeah. So now I'm trying to picture it in my head. You throw this thing in. I'm sure there's a moment of where it goes, pshew. Yeah.
+
+[7:19] And then like a couple of minutes, a couple seconds later, right? Is that what happens? All right. So uh yeah. And so had did it boil over?
+
+[7:28] No. Okay. No, yeah. So didn't even didn't blow the lid off or anything like that. Did it scorch?
+
+[7:36] No, nothing visible yet. I didn't have to clean the pan. No, yeah. Well, no, no. Like it didn't, it didn't burn anything in that sense.
+
+[7:42] Like it just splattered everywhere in the pan. The coals kind of like floated and just strain it for any case of any ash or something. Well, you know, for those of you guys keep keeping track of uh the universe, right? So uh as soon as uh the outside of the coal is gonna be greater than you know, greater than four hundred and something degrees Fahrenheit, at those temperatures, the cream won't actually touch the coal because of the leidenfrost effect. You'll have a vapor layer around it.
+
+[8:13] The fat can touch it, right? But the water can't. And so that's probably buffering it a little bit until it mellows out, and then at that point, it's probably not gonna burn it. So I don't see why theoretically why it wouldn't work as opposed to like throwing it into a uh onto a flat top and just you know causing a nightmare. But you think it was you felt you got some cream that you couldn't achieve in any other way?
+
+[8:38] In other words, you're like, yay. Yes, like I'm making it again today or tomorrow for service this week, yeah. Really? Yeah. And what do you do with said cream?
+
+[8:48] Sorry to spend so much time with this, but this is bizarre to make it. No, it's all smoked pasticious. That sounds great. Yeah. Sounds really good.
+
+[8:54] It would make we thought it would make for really good like creme brulee base, but um, I take like so I'm doing it with the mushrooms pasta dish. So all the mushroom trimmings and cleanings steep in there, blitz it up, strain it out, and that's like the base of it, then parm lemon juice. I mean mushrooms. Man, think things have changed a lot since the day when we just like threw Lop Sang Suchang into cream to get it to be smoky and tea like old and old. It's a different kind of smoky.
+
+[9:22] I don't know. It's so hard to articulate. And I had it a lot that flavor profile a lot on my last trip to Belgium, and I couldn't. So this is a billionaire. I've seen it just on like I guess European chefs doing this.
+
+[9:35] Uh-huh. Um, so I don't know if it's specifically Belgian, but I guess they're doing it a lot because it was a flavor profile I re recognized a lot from my last trip there, but just couldn't put my finger on. And now you can put your not only your finger, you can put your coal in it. Yes, exactly. All right, cool.
+
+[9:49] All right, interesting. Yeah. All right. So uh my only real food story of the well, a couple. I'm working on I'm almost done with the book, by the way.
+
+[9:56] Hey. With the redo of my already 10-year-old book. So, like, Diane, we are exact opposites. Like, you've written like 8,000 cookbooks. I've written one book on cocktails, and then it's taken me the last two years to do my tenure revision of it.
+
+[10:09] So it's anyway. Um, so uh I have this recipe that we have at the bar called uh Sagittarius B2, which is this raspberry orjat, acid ingested raspberry, and um rum. So it's it's a you know mixture of rums because rum drinks do. Anyway, so uh this orjat is such a pain to make. It's so hard to make because unlike it, you have you mix, so it's raspberry juice is the is in the recipe, but also the orjah itself is raspberry, and so we make it with raspberry jam so that it's this can so part of the raspberry is uncooked and part of the raspberry is cooked down into a jam.
+
+[10:50] So we take this jam and we mix it with the hot water and the almonds to make the this or jot, and then we strain it, but it's impossible to strain. Impossible. It takes forever. And uh I've been wanting to take this drink off the menu because it it is is killing us, killing us at the at the bar. It's obliterating us.
+
+[11:09] You know what I mean? Like uh just a real takedown. And we we don't charge more for it, you know what I mean? And because here's the weird thing about restaurants for those of you that you know do this for a living, is that for some reason you don't factor into the food cost, the particular labor cost in a dish, right? Or in our drink.
+
+[11:27] So we're like, oh, what's the pour cost? And you look at the cost of almonds, not that bad. You look at the cost of the uh the jam, not that bad. You know what I mean? And then, oh, wait, it to make a quart takes an hour?
+
+[11:38] Oh my goodness. Now all of a sudden the cost of this thing has gone through the roof. Anyway, so I've been looking around. Turns out there's a product, this new product changed my life. Joy strange.
+
+[11:48] J-O-I, Joy. Joy brand, and I don't I've never talked to this company before. They make a nut milk base that looks like almond butter, but when you scoop it and add hot water to it, it dissolves into almond milk, and you can make it in any concentration you want. So one of the reasons, besides the fact that they're not very good, that you can't use commercial almond milks, is they're too thin to use for the orjat that I do. So I can make this as thick as I want.
+
+[12:19] I can add as much of this almond stuff as I want. So now I just take the the jam. Uh now I use seedless because I'm not going to strain it. This joy product, boom, hot water, boom. Blend it, Arabic and Xanthan so that it doesn't separate over time, done.
+
+[12:36] So now what used to take me soaking the almonds overnight, blending, squeezing, straining, hours and hours and hours is now a five-minute problem. Thank you, Joe. Yeah. Yeah. So that's my that was my exciting food news of the week.
+
+[12:49] And for some reason, I think because they're health folks, they have no, they have no, they've not done any outreach to the bar world at all. And like all of us who like are Orjah people, like this is this is like handed from God. You know what I mean? This idea. But uh, whatever.
+
+[13:06] So I'm gonna see if we can work with them maybe. Anyway, so Nastasi and I went to uh Athens. She went to the islands afterwards. I had to come back because whatever, you know, family, all this crap. But it turns out we were in Athens for the weirdest slice of time ever.
+
+[13:22] We were there for the one week the bank shut down. Oh, that was that was an interesting time to be there. Yeah, yeah. It was uh it was kind of hardcore. So, like we, you know, my only concept of Athens is this incredibly weird time and just feeling really, really bad about the austerity measures that were being put, because it seemed to me to be completely just insane what was being done to Greece.
+
+[13:49] You know what I mean? Like it was a social experiment. Yeah, horrifying. Yes. You know, in terms of like, you know, shops shuttered and like uh, you know, things unavailable.
+
+[13:59] Clumsy's was opening, which was nice. They let me use their bar, which is a great book. My prep is a big thing. It is a great bar, yeah. But anyway, so like that's my only reference for Athens, is this is this time.
+
+[14:09] And so reading your book, this new book, what's interesting about it isn't just that it's a perspective on what's going on in Athens now, but it's a book about how uh Athens is not a static entity. It's not. Uh and it's well, at least that's what I got out of the book, is like as the main theme of it is kind of uh breadth of people, breadth of change, and how even over the course of your time there, your time even as a cook and a journalist there, since you moved back in the 90s, I want to say, if my memory serves me right from the book, uh, that it's changed dramatically over that period of time. It's changed dramatically. I moved, uh I didn't move back, I moved there.
+
+[14:47] Back is here for me. Oh, back is here, right? Right. So you grew up here, but also in the islands, right? Or not?
+
+[14:53] I grew up here and I spent most almost every summer of my teen my adolescence on this island called Icaria, uh, which is now a blue zone. And now it's sort of been catapulted to this unexpected fame because people tend, you know, the rumor has it that we live a long time. That's the statistics. So those things are always fake. I mean, I'm sure hopefully you live a long time.
+
+[15:15] Yeah, it's I mean, there's a lot of statistical evidence to back it up. But anyway. You remember like in the in the remember in like the I think it was the late 70s, early 80s, they had the Dan and Yogurt ads, and they went to Geor Georgia, yeah, the caucuses. And they they were like, if you eat Dan and yogurt, you're gonna live to be 110, like all these people in Georgia. And it turns out none of those people were actually 110.
+
+[15:37] They just lived to be 110. Remember this? No, we have a few people who are in their you know, early hundreds on the island. But uh anyway, so I that's what my kind of Greek connection, and I moved there in 1992 full-time. Uh after, you know, spending my summers in this place that was you know, defined by the one word that it has become to define my own life, which is serendipitous.
+
+[16:01] Um, there was no way that I could buy into, let's say, the more rigid structures of life in the United States to a certain degree, uh, which is fine. But you know, New York is in its own place altogether. But tell me about it. Yeah, it's I mean, I'm a I'm totally a New Yorker still. Uh, but I've been in Athens since 1992, and when I moved there, the play the city was starting to go through the first sort of transformation, which was the gym my generation, say Greeks who had been uh brought up there who had left to study abroad coming back.
+
+[16:34] And as they came back, they had life experiences that their parents, you know, obviously didn't. So they were suddenly there was this demand for all sorts of cuisines that didn't exist before. Um and I got my job as a newspaper reporter by writing to the editor of the biggest, the largest Greek daily in Athens at the time, saying, you know, I've been uh my in-laws are like avid readers of your newspaper, and I noticed that your food column, which is LA Times syndicated uh and coming to Athens, is sort of completely useless here because we can't find any of the ingredients. So there's a saying in Greek: if you want to get hired for a job, criticize the employer. Uh does not work here.
+
+[17:14] No, no, it doesn't. Uh anyway, so I got hired. They called me up, and I I ended up uh working. I I was a food columnist and restaurant critic for 20 years in Athens. So I lived through this incredibly interesting time as the city was shifting out of you know, the post-junta years, and there was all this money from the EU coming into the city.
+
+[17:34] It was kind of this euphoria. Um, and then leading up to the Olympics in 2004, uh, kind of another transformation suddenly became very sexy to be a chef. You know, being a chef, being a cook was something you never wished on your kid. Same here, but yeah. It was the thing that you know, the the stupid kid in the family had to do because there was no nowhere else for you know that that person to go.
+
+[17:56] But that's certainly not the case anymore. And it was really fun time. It was Athens at that time was going through this crazy kind of Californianization of Greek food. Like you'd go to restaurants and the waiter would come over to you and say, you know, the the the chilled green sauce should be white swiped into the hot red sauce, and you pick up, you know, this piece of veal on the left tyne of your fork kind of thing. You know, well no, I caught through the uh intro that you uh you give it you have a rather uh jaundist view of some of the trends that happened uh during during that that time.
+
+[18:32] Which, you know, listen, any trend always goes to excess. Yeah, you know what I mean? Any trend goes to excess. Um what I like to talk about, and then people like I don't know, people always comment, like, what the hell are you talking about? I talk about what I grew up with here in the 70s and 80s, right?
+
+[18:49] And so you're even though you were actually here during that time, when you move back there, you're talking to a generation that was doing stuff back then, or these kind of like old school recipes. And so one of them was this uh Athenian housewives false souffle, the Athenian mayonnaise, and the chicken milanese, like these three, because first of all, John, this chicken milanese is not what you think. No, it has nothing to do with Milan. Yeah, there's no breading, there's no frying. So it's it's not even like you know, like like a Mexican milanese, which is not like what it's like everyone's milanese is some sort of fried cutlet, right?
+
+[19:22] Right. Nope. Okay. Nope. You want to describe what this is?
+
+[19:26] Why why is it called this anyway? I think if our if memory serves me uh correctly, I think it was named that by one of the probably the the one chef and cookbook author who really changed uh Greek cooking in the 20th century, a man named Nikos Telemendez. And he basically brought European techniques to Greek cooking. And it was a time, you know, this sort of part of the whole bourgeois cuisine uh, you know, concept or development, whatever. And that, you know, that's sort of kind of started in the early part of the 20th century when Greece was a new state and there was a lot of optimism in the air, and people wanted to look west.
+
+[20:05] Um so they this embrace of you know French techniques and all sorts of other things. So this is essentially a rice dish with uh very delicious creamy sauce on top of it, and it's usually molded in a like a bunt pan kind of mold. And that was um that that bunt pan was the treasured possession of upper crust and middle class Greek housewives, or let's say home cooks. And the same one that we use, Nordic brand, like almost, or like whatever they had. Whatever they have.
+
+[20:37] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know the I don't remember, I don't know the brands, but um, and it was the thing that you would present on a Sunday or for a special meal or a family meal. But there are certain recipes, uh the false souple was this false soup souffle was something I remember my mother-in-law making. And I kind of named it false souffle because it was it's really almost like a bread pudding, and you know, it's it's this weird concocture. It's delicious, actually.
+
+[21:03] If you're if you guys can't picture, you don't have the book in front of you, folks, but it's like imagine like a casserole dish, layers of white bread, ham and cheese, white bread, and I forget, is there a bechamel on top or not? I think there's a bechamel, yeah. Yeah. Well, you're so you said that you pronounce his name again. This guy was the guy that brought bechamel to Greek.
+
+[21:14] He was the telemendes, was the man who brought bechamel to bechamel. Yeah, yeah. And also, I mean, his book, his name is synonymous with cookbook. Like when you say in Greek, like I say to people, I write telemendeves. You know, I write cookbooks, it's synonymous.
+
+[21:34] Really? Yeah. To this day. To this day. And there wasn't a household in Greece that didn't have, you know, a uh version of his book.
+
+[21:43] And the f and the other recipe, uh, which is uh one of the classics of bourgeois cooking is the what you call the Athenian mayonnaise, which is essentially poached fish. But the the preparation of the mayonnaise was the test of the you know the home cook's skill. Because it's hard to make mayonnaise. It's one of the harder things that let's say to do in the kitchen if you're not a professional cook. So that was the you know, that was her pride and joy, the the ability to make this delicious mayonnaise, and then decorate the fish.
+
+[22:11] It was it's a lovely dish. It's it's really festive. So there's a picture of it in the book. If you can't if so if picture this, it's you you poach the fish in cheesecloth, you then pull it out, you flake it, mix it with the mayonnaise, and then reassemble it in the shape of a fish, with the like as like a mayonnaise, fish salad, but not like chomp not chummed up, like large flakes, it says in the book, but you leave the tail in the head so that it still looks like a fish. And it's usually made with grouper, which is an expensive fish and a delicious one.
+
+[22:40] And it's uh to my knowledge, the only recipe that actually has the name Athenian in it. So it's called that even this. It's called Athinaikima Yonesa, yeah. And it refers to them, it's funny, it does it's not called fish, right? It's called mayonnaise.
+
+[22:55] Yeah, you're calling it the mayonnaise and not the fish, which I thought was, you know, bizarre. I thought that you it was just gonna be a recipe for the mayonnaise, and that here is a here is a serving suggestion for said mayonnaise. No, it's no, no, no. It's it's it's about the fish, but uh that's an interesting point, actually. Uh yeah, and then you decorated, and that was also sort of a uh uh a way for her to show off her skills too, decorating it with capers and cornichons and you know the boiled vegetables that went into those soup.
+
+[23:20] Right, right. So instead of fins on the on the upper and lower section or like the like uh slivered onions from the from the bra in the book. Um but um yeah. So like I love stuff like that. Like recipes like that, that you're like, oh right.
+
+[23:34] So then uh let me mention some of the oh there's there's this one restaurant when Nastasi and I were in Greece that we went to that was probably the highlight of our dining experience because they cared so little whether we were there or not. And they they still feel that way. Yeah, so it's this place, uh uh is it well, I I would say the port. How do you call it? It's called the Porto.
+
+[23:54] Yeah, and so if you're in Athens, apparently it still exists. It still exists, it's been under risk of uh extinction for the last two years because that part of the city is now being turned into one giant boutique hotel. And yeah, all this, you know, funds coming in, buying up, you know, whole city blocks, that kind of thing. So for reference as an American, uh when I went, there was no sign, nothing. There still isn't.
+
+[24:18] You're on the street, there's stairs down, you walk down the stairs into this like I don't know, what I my memory is that it looks like it's been hacked out of the little rock or something. You go down in and uh and you sit down, there's paper on the table, they bring you some food because I can't speak, so they bring me food, and then they write on the table how much money I owe them, and then you get out. Yeah, that's it. That's still it. And I've been I've been going there since I got to Greece, you know, 33 years ago.
+
+[24:46] And there used to be a couple of places like that in the neighborhood. He's the only survivor. And he his specialty, he makes the best chickpea soup. He makes really great, simple, super simple grilled sardines, a great Greek salad. You know, he makes other things too, but those are the things you go there for.
+
+[25:03] And he's still very gruff and very rough around the edges, and he doesn't like when you take pictures in the place. And his nephew, he's been there running that place since 1951. Wow. He makes his own retzina. Uh talk about that later.
+
+[25:16] Yeah, outside of Athens. And you get there, but he has kind of a heart of gold, he just doesn't show it. Like if you if you get on his good side, he'll he's he turns into a total, you know, sort of pussy cat. Just you know, real softy. But he's a little bit gruff, and he, you know, he's just a character.
+
+[25:34] I mean, he's part of the fabric of of Central Athens. Mitsos, Barba Mitsos, Uncle, Uncle Dimitri, Barba Mitsos. Well, hopefully, uh, hopefully they can maintain withstand the withstand the pressures of boutique hotels. Um, all right. Oh, another thing.
+
+[25:49] So I was watching some of your uh episodes last, and this chef is actually featured a lot in this book. I'm gonna mispronounce his name, Lefteris. Lefter is Lazaru. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[25:58] Uh and so, John, you're gonna like this. Obviously, this is a book, a Greek book. There's gonna be a lot of like squid and octopus and fish in the book. You know, duh. Duh.
+
+[26:07] But this guy has this really cool technique for squid that you're gonna appreciate, John. I think all our listeners appreciate this. So he takes the first of all, interesting fact, he takes the tentacles and puts them. He's a flash cooker, right? So he he's a fast squid man, not a long squid.
+
+[26:23] Yeah, he's a fast squid. He's a fast quid. Two seconds or two hours. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he's like, you know, shh anyway, so tentacles flash.
+
+[26:30] He's a he's tentacles first because they cook longer, he says, right? Uh marinate a little olive oil in the in the tentacles first before he puts it on the on the thing so that it's all coated, then puts it into the into the pan, cast iron, if my memory serves, maybe maybe it was steel, I don't remember. But he takes the tubes, he sticks a spatula into the tube, right? If you picture this, and then he takes the knife and he cuts down to the spatula so that the squid is still whole, but it's been scored all the way through so that it gets this kind of ruffled look on the top, and it can cook more on the inside with the fast cooking he's doing. The flavors can get inside better because the squid's been penetrated on the one side, but they're not hacked up into little tubes.
+
+[27:11] So we can still present it on, I believe it was a puree like spanicopata base, right? That he shocked. I appreciated that he ice shocked the stuff to make it stay green. This is what happens. People they they cook a green and then they think they can just blend it and walk away from it.
+
+[27:25] It's gonna turn olive drab on you. This is a well-known fact for anyone who's ever actually tried to make anything. You know what I mean? Yeah. But anyway, but anyway, so like very, very bright green.
+
+[27:33] So uh I'm sure that tasted good, that dish. It was delicious, and it was really easy to make. Yeah, well, with a couple of tricks. With a couple of tricks, yeah. That's like the other squid trick that my my sister-in-law, Miley, uh, was taught by her uh French cooking uh professor at the French Culinary Institute, uh, was if you're gonna stuff squid, turn them inside out.
+
+[27:54] Oh, really? Yeah, then the the the little the little what are you, the ears, whatever you want to call them, the they're on the inside now. And then when it when it's turned inside out and it contracts, it contracts around the filling better. So he used to turn all of his uh all of them inside. Now remember, they were using the ones that are like this, like the, you know, uh not the little ones.
+
+[28:14] Also, uh on octopus, I had this question. Um in in Greece, when you buy uh an octopus, has it have they already beaten the ever loving crap out of it? Or do you have to beat them? No, it's already been beaten. And you also mentioned, because I think most people here when you buy octopus, you just buy octopus.
+
+[28:31] But you're mentioning like the types of octopus that that you're buying. So I'm I'm taking it that buying an octopus in Greece, like you have a much better idea of what you're buying than when you buy it here, where you're mostly buying I mean, is it all frozen there as well, like it is here? Uh it depends. It's not easy to find fresh octopus. It has to be very local.
+
+[28:49] Um most of it actually is fished on the other side of the Mediterranean. Uh you buy it at the fish market. The fish market, you know, the fishmongers are infamous for being a little bit, let's say, creative in how they present things. So uh you quite you never quite know. But I can tell you one thing that doesn't happen when I at least when I buy octopus in Greece.
+
+[29:10] Whenever I've cooked octopus in, you know, sort of restaurant kitchens in New York or anywhere else in the in North America, oftentimes you get this octopus that looks like a total monster, like the tentacles are this thick, and as soon as you start heating it, it gets it's reduced down to nothing. It's like injected with saline. I don't know what I think those giant Pacific octopus, they just why you know you do the do they do that in Greece where you do the dip where you dip it in and have it curl into the you you you You dip it into what? Boiling water so that it curls a certain way, and then you you do you do that? Not that I know, not that I know about it.
+
+[29:42] That might just be because we use these giant things that get tiny. I don't know. But I don't know. I always thought it was I thought there was a more devious reason for that. But in Greece, you know, you we first of all, you don't typically the traditional way of cooking octopus is not with any liquid.
+
+[29:55] You let you you cook it in very slowly in a covered pan, maybe with a little olive oil. I saw that in the one in the thing you did for your daughter's art buddies. And oh, you watch the you're a you're a good one. I do my work. Yeah, you did your homework.
+
+[30:08] Uh yeah, that was a that's a great recipe too. Um oranges. John, get this. Chops up oranges, so after it cooks down a little bit, as she says, no liquid, no salt, which I thought was. No salt, no salt.
+
+[30:19] I mean, I would have to try it. I have a tough time believing. I I'm just telling you, I have a tough time believing. I love salt, but for some reason the octopus in Greece does not need to be salted. Okay.
+
+[30:30] Okay. You know what? Okay. Uh so you're saying maybe an American octopus, the way it's been treated might need a little salt. Yeah, or maybe the water's different.
+
+[30:37] The salinity levels are different. I'm not sure. Packs up oranges. Uh I think squeezes the juice in, puts the orange slices in, and then you serve it with the orange slices. So you eat a piece of the bitter braised orange, like navel style.
+
+[30:51] They're not like uh fancy aren't cias, right? They're not sour oranges. They're like, yeah. No. Yeah.
+
+[30:56] Yeah. But it's good. It's delicious. Huh. Yeah.
+
+[30:59] All right. I'll give it a I mean, like I don't cook octopus as much as I as I would, even though my son loves it. But my son just wants it plain. That's the problem. He just eats like plain.
+
+[31:09] He wants it very lightly cooked and plain. So yeah, so you put the octopus in and it shrinks, but not an intense amount, but it does make its own juice. It makes its own juice. And they say in Greek that it you it cooks in its own seawater. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[31:22] It's it's very poetic. Now that that recipe cooked for about 45 minutes, right? Yeah, it depends on the octopus, but that's about right. I mean, if it's say like a two-pound, two and a half pound octopus, that's about right. Yeah.
+
+[31:32] Now now see what you think about this. I actually think for the octopus that we get, because I don't think that they I don't think that they're throwing all the octopus in a in a washing machine here that they sell you. I think they freeze it. I think the freezing helps tenderize it. I think also with our squid.
+
+[31:45] I think one of the reasons that it's easier for an American to make a quote unquote tender squid is that all of it's been frozen. Yeah. All of it. And so the freezing, you know, breaks apart the muscle, and it's like a tenderizing akin to old school beating it. You know what I mean?
+
+[31:59] But I can't prove that because I don't have a source of unfrozen octopus and squid. You know what I mean? So I don't know. Um, but anyway, another thing I thought was interesting looking at the book that struck me and also watching the the shows and from when I visited the Mediterranean, is that they love to sell local small fish in full rigor. Full rigor.
+
+[32:21] Like so, like you see them pick up the fish and it looks like uh it looks like a banana because it's still in rigor mortis. You know what I mean? From uh when that when they caught it. And it's like uh it's like is that just a Mediterranean cultural thing? Or do you not did you not notice it?
+
+[32:36] To me, it's like shocking because all the fish that you buy in the United States are limp. They've all been caught, they've gone through rigor mortis already, and when you buy them, they're like that that they're just not fresh that way. Well, but that's the thing. So like it's it's a cultural thing. So, right, so like you know, in places in China, they they want it, they want to eat it, basically kill it and eat it, right?
+
+[32:58] They want it that fresh. To me, and then like there's okay, it's in rigor, it's a certain point. Well, like a lot of fish I like it after it's relaxed, right? So, but just interesting cultural differences of how you how you like the texture of your fish. I never thought about that.
+
+[33:12] It's so second nature to me. I mean, I wouldn't even look at a fish that was limp. Really? Yeah, it's so funny. Yeah, because you see these like this, like, you know, the ice can, and then the fish are like Yeah, that's how they should.
+
+[33:23] That's how they should be. I mean, that's how you know they're fresh. Yeah, you'll never see that at a market here, not ever. But am I right, John? You'll never see that in a market.
+
+[33:30] No, good. No, you don't even see whole fish in markets here. I mean, no, I mean you do in some specialty markets. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah.
+
+[33:35] No, but it's uh it's an interesting thing, like what people like. So like we're so akin, we're so used to thinking what is better, what's best. But it's to me, everything is just cultural differences. And so when you look at them, you know, you're trying to figure out, okay, well, if this is how this person wants this, like what what is the dish gonna taste like based on what they're doing? You know what I mean?
+
+[33:57] To me, that's like half of the that's a lot of the interesting uh stuff. And so to that, I will ask you this because can I can I interrupt you for one second? I have a funny story about Leftetis Lazaro, which we traveled to Japan together once on a with the International Aval Council, and we ended up in this restaurant. There were about 10 Greeks. We couldn't get into any restaurants because we were all there were too many of us and we were too loud.
+
+[34:19] So finally we got into a place and we ordered many things. They were all chefs, so we ordered like the entire menu three times. But one of one of the menu items was a whole fish that came to the table. And when they when Leftetis went to slice it, it jumped. Oh my goodness.
+
+[34:37] It was for the Greeks, that was kind of a shocking moment. And then, you know, we kind of got on with it and it was delicious. But anyway, that's my Yeah, no, it's fine. Yeah, it's with uh yeah, I've I was Nastasi and I, who unfortunately she can't be on the phone, were taught how to do the live fish by someone, and it just horrified me. It was just horrifying.
+
+[34:55] I mean, I'll listen, we kill fish all the time in horrible ways, but it was still horrifying. You know what I mean? Like, but uh, but again, it's cultural. So like, you know, what's horrifying to me is normal to somebody else, and I'm sure many of the I'm sure a lot of the things I do are horrifying to other people. Uh but uh so one of the, you know, uh I get f you know, FOMO, which is fear of missing out, right?
+
+[35:15] So like one of the may one of the major uh FOMO situations from reading your book is like uh just the breadth of Greek cheeses. You mention all of these Greek cheeses. Like you have this uh this egg dish from uh the cyclot the cycladic eggs, and in it you're like, oh yeah, there's this cheese. You can only get it on the islands. You're ruined, you're toast.
+
+[35:36] It's delicious, by the way. And I'm like, ah you know what I mean? There's a lot of cheese in Greece. Yeah, because we know we mainly we get like two or three. Yeah, you know what I mean.
+
+[35:46] Because it's a hard thing to import. Uh you it takes a whole army of people educating Americans, you know, how to pronounce half this stuff, how to explain that this cheese, you know, the traditional way of making it is to dig a pit and soak it in the leaves at the bottom of, you know, fill the this pit with the dredge at the bottom of a wine barrel, put the cheese in there, cover it, leave it there for six months, and enjoy it. I want that. I I want that too. I want that.
+
+[36:10] And I I found that on the island of uh Sifnos many years ago, like 30 30 years ago. We were in this little place in a small village, and we ordered just like eggs and a salad or something. And the grandfather, it was one of these family places that probably doesn't exist anymore, with a little cot in the back of the, you know, the the coffee, the cafe neo. The grandfather was asleep on the cot, he got up, he sat down, the daughter-in-law, you know, prepared his meal, and part of this meal was this wine-soaked cheese. So I asked her, you know, what's papu there eating?
+
+[36:40] You know, what's grandpa eating? And oh, that's that's local, you're not gonna be interested in that. I was like, You said the wrong thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh anyway, so yeah, there's a lot of cheese.
+
+[36:49] I mean a lot. Yeah, so you always give things to kind of mimic, but like, you know, even here, I think, you know, I mean, even even our most of the feta we get's not very good. You know what I mean? Like here in this in the US. I mean, I'm sure some of it's fine.
+
+[36:59] Some I'm sure some of it's good. But yeah, I mean, if you go to the Greek markets, and there's there are a few brands in you know, sort of mainstream supermarkets that are very good. But there's a lot of variety in feta. Like one of the things I do when I take people around Athens, I'll bring them to a couple of cheese shops and I'll have them taste just feta. And there's firm feta, there's sharp feta, there's smooth feta, there's creamy feta, there's mild feta.
+
+[37:26] Well, that's another thing is like you have a lot of sauces in here with with their cream sauces with fet feta melted into them, which is not something I would normally associate, because I think of it as getting soft, but I don't think of it as like being completely creamed out or blended into a sauce. Do you, John? No. No. Not usually, yeah.
+
+[37:43] But but like there's m I would say more than 10 recipes in here that involve or maybe maybe it's like six or seven, but like where feta is put into a cream base or into a sauce base. Like you have one where you make a roux, then milk, then feta. You have like a another one like with uh pancakes where it's like a feta cream in the morning. It's like, you know, these these so it's like I never think of feta as something that is meltable in that way. Yeah.
+
+[38:11] But even ours that are so salted and brine soaked are. I mean, are you talking about the stuff that's made in Wisconsin or the stuff that's imported? Because the stuff that's made in Wisconsin is not cheese. Wow. Um serious shade on Wisconsin.
+
+[38:24] Do you know that they call themselves cheese heads? I mean, uh some of it, uh you know, it's cow's milk for the most part. So that makes it that's not feta. Feta is by law in at least in the EU, but in Greece, it's by lost sheep or sheep and goat's milk. Are you okay with other countries in the region's feta?
+
+[38:41] Like I know Bulgarians think their feta is quite good. You didn't hear that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, those those mountains re Bulgaria borders Greece. A hundred years ago, the shepherds were crossing those mountains.
+
+[38:57] They weren't thinking about, oh, now I'm entering Greek territory or now I'm entering Bulgarian territory. It's it's mountains. Right. Same cheese culture for that. Yeah, same cheese culture.
+
+[39:06] Many of the a lot, same similar food cultures, uh especially around the you know, sort of frontier areas, borders. Yeah. So man, now if I ever get to go back to Greece, I gotta do gotta go. I know first of all, I didn't leave Athens, so I didn't get to I didn't go to any other place. But uh I gotta get I gotta get these cheese.
+
+[39:23] I gotta go with some of these dairies in here. Yeah, there's a lot of I mean, Greeks have been making cheese, you know, for since like the Bronze Age. A lot of experience. A lot of experience. Uh so another thing that you mentioned, uh ingredient that piqued my interest is pine honey.
+
+[39:38] Now my favorites. Yeah, I know so. Of course, oh immediately it piqued my interest because of course pine trees don't have flowers. So how do they have honey? And it's a honeydew honey.
+
+[39:48] Crazy. You want to talk about it? I do. Yeah. Uh you're a smart cookie.
+
+[39:55] Yeah. I'm a I'm a technical guy. I'm a yeah, yeah. So pine honey is you're right, pine trees don't flower. They the bees feed off of this parasite that lives on the bark of the tree, and it it secretes a very sweet liquid, sticky liquid, and that's what the bees feed off of.
+
+[40:14] But pine honey is um, I think the the it has the highest concentration of minerals of all the honeys. It's very dark. I mean, my experience with honey is mostly because I'm sh I'm biased, I like my the honey from Ikaria. Um but and it's mostly pine honey. There's some incredible heather honey in Icaria too.
+
+[40:35] And some thyme. But pine honey is a dark honey. It's very viscous. Uh I love the flavor of it. It's very mineraly.
+
+[40:45] Um it's not bitter like buckwheat honey. It's not bitter honey. We do have some bitter honeys in Greece. We have chestnut honey, which is bitter. We have honey from the strawberry tree, the arbitration, which is bitter and very therapeutic, very good for you.
+
+[40:59] And uh and we also have some oak honey. Huh. Um, but the pine honey is probably the most prevalent honey in Greece. Because I mean, until it all burns down, it's mostly pine forests. So got, you know, knock on wood.
+
+[41:14] No, it's cool, it's cool concepts like bug on bug takes two different species of bug or whatever parasite, yeah. Right. It's yeah, it's uh it's it's the most prevalent honey in Greece. I mean, uh I'm gonna, but that I could probably pick up here. Oh, yeah, you can find pine honey here.
+
+[41:29] And I'm sure it, I'm sure, you know, honey ships quite well. So I'm sure I can get a decent quality. Oh, yeah, you I I I can ship you some pine honey. Yeah, well, nice, appreciate that. Uh another thing I want to talk about because as an American growing up in around New York area is a Greek salad, right?
+
+[41:44] So I John, do people still order Greek salads all the time here? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[41:49] I mean, like, you know, obviously, like growing up 70s, 80s, 90s, Greek diners, Greek salad. But in the US, I mean, it's it's gotta be, it's not the same, you know, right? I mean, like, first of all, you would never have like canned uh, you know, canned uh dolmas on them, or you know, like the face you're making, right? Uh but one thing that's interesting is that in your book, or maybe it was on the show, you're like, you know, these are the things you need. You need the tomato, you need the pepper, you need um, and you need uh feta, but oregano without oregano f you, right?
+
+[42:23] Not the right thing. But no anchovies. None of the none of the ones have the anchovies in here, and I always order extra anchovies online. Is that just an American Greek diner thing? Uh I'm not I don't know about that.
+
+[42:33] I think the additions are generally American. Uh Greek salad, like what we call village salad, Jatikisalad, that was actually born in the placa in sort of like the night early 1960s. And it was totally a financial thing. There were price controls on restaurant menu items, and they could charge more for a sal for for what they called a tomato cucumber salad if they put cheese on it. It sort of fell in this gray area and it was out of the price controls, so they were able to like be a little bit more creative with what they could charge for it.
+
+[43:07] And when that moved to the United States, there are lots of versions of that in the States. First of all, most of it most of it comes packed, most of it is over a bed of lettuce. Yeah. And I think that's just the American tendency to want, you know, more and make something look bigger. Yeah, thin thin onions.
+
+[43:22] Yeah, thin onions, you know, tasteless tomatoes for the most part. It's a part of the horrible tomatoes. Yeah, it's supposed to be a seasonal salad. So if you you know, why are Greek restaurants in the United States, especially in the Northeast, serving Greek salads in January? Yeah, no, the tomatoes are hard like apples.
+
+[43:37] You know, so any anyway, that's all that's my little sort of pet peeve. But now you can get decent hot house like the comparis and the small tomato that are good, you know, don't are they the best tomato on earth? No. No, but they're decent. Yeah, yeah, they're decent.
+
+[43:49] Yeah, yeah. You know, um but then in other parts of the states, like in Tarpon Springs, Florida, a Greek salad has a scoop of potato salad in it. What? Yeah. Because that was the Greek restaurants there.
+
+[43:58] There were a lot of GIs coming home after the war, and that was a way to give them sort of something more substantial. They were kind of, you know, they were financially strapped, and that was a way to make a relatively inexpensive dish more filling for them. So that took on sort of a life of its own. And then you have all these embellishments grilled chicken, you know, uh grilled grilled uh shrimp over a Greek salad, anchovies. In Greece, you do find anchovies.
+
+[44:22] You find, you know, depending on like there are some regional distinctions. You might find different cheese, not feta. If you're in Crete, for example. You might find anchovies in it, you might find capers in it, you might find maybe a different kind of olive in it. Um you might find pepperoncini, not everyone.
+
+[44:38] You put it in yours. I like because I like heat. I mean, and that's not even real heat, but I like I like spices. Vinegary heat, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[44:44] So I'm I yeah, I don't know why I'm asking this, but I'm curious. Like, I never did the research on the Greek diner in the US. I don't know the date. Like, when did all of that start? The Greek diner.
+
+[44:56] Was that as a result of the 20s when when all the everything was hitting the fan in in Greece and Turkey, or when was the Greek diner born? Uh post-war, post-World War II. I think it was post-World War II. I think there was definitely a moratorium on immigration between like the 1890s and the 19. I'm sorry, there was a moratorium between the twenties and the six the 1960s.
+
+[45:22] So people from Southern Europe were kind of not exactly welcome in the United States. There was a trickle of immigration, but it wasn't, you know, sort of these massive waves of immigration that saw that were that we saw at the turn of the 19th century, the tw turn of the 20th century. Um and then after the war in the 1960s, things opened up again, and a lot of, you know, Greece was really poor. So a lot of people, and you know, some one of the there's so many rags to riches stories about men who came over, uh worked as dishwashers. Greeks are Greeks don't like to have bosses.
+
+[45:53] So it's that's a cultural thing. So, you know, you work as a dishwasher, you save your pennies. You live with you know, 12 other guys in the basement of some Greek aunt's house, you know, somewhere in Lowell, Massachusetts, or you know, Long Island or something. You save your pennies, you buy the diner. And then, you know, you save more pennies, you buy a second diner, you sell that one, you buy a bigger one.
+
+[46:12] And that's kind of and everyone in the family works. So it's okay to work with your family, just not a boss who's not your family. Right. Exactly. No, I even know someone who's, you know, my age who for a while had to run the family diner, even though it's like it was like two generations.
+
+[46:26] I should have asked him, I haven't seen him in years. Anyway, uh, I mean And also Greeks are like we're the one of the cultural things about Greeks is that we we love to feed people. It's a very hospital hospitality is a really deep felt sentiment in Greek culture. I think that's one of the reasons why they've done, you know, we've done so well in the restaurant industry. We actually like to feed people.
+
+[46:45] Wow. Good. Uh now, terra musselata. One of the recipes in here, because I didn't, you know, again, you have a breadth of terra muscaladas, right? You do this seltzer, and the secret of the place I buy it here in the city is seltzer.
+
+[46:59] I get it from the international grocery over. Yeah, I don't know if you like them or hate it. Yeah, yeah. But uh are you pro the seltzer, the lightening it up with salsa or no? It does make it fluffier, definitely makes it fluffier.
+
+[47:12] And you're the first one you present is a zero potato situation. Like no no filler, no bread, no potato, right? It's just oil, ter uh it's an emulsion, basically. Yeah, right. I forget the exact recipe.
+
+[47:24] It's lemon, it's teram teram terama, or however you pronounce it. Hey, I'll go look it up. Uh but it's yeah, it's very pure, the first recipe that you gave. So you don't you in when you make it no additives, and also you don't use the orange ones. You use the the the I try to get the white one.
+
+[47:40] That's a little harder to find in the States. Uh maybe you find it. Is there a flavor difference? There's not really a flavor difference, but the pink one might be a bit saltier. I'm not I'm not certain about that.
+
+[47:52] Uh there are a lot of different recipes for tarmasalata, and it's also one taramah, which is the name of the fish row, is one of those things now that has become fodder for like creative cooking in Athens. And I have one recipe that is a tar masalata with a sweet potato base. Yeah, I don't know. You get a lot not a lot, but you're like talk about sweet potatoes being popular there. Yeah, it's I'm trying to picture sweet potatoes in Greek, like I'm trying to picture Greek sweet potatoes.
+
+[48:15] I have a difficult time picturing sweet potatoes other than just roasted sweet potatoes. Oh no, that's me though. It's personal with like oregano, garlic, and lemon. Really? They're delicious.
+
+[48:26] Yeah, I need to get I need to up my sweet potato gain. Do you know? I only eat it around Thanksgiving time. I really do need it. No, it's actually good for you.
+
+[48:32] It's I mean, yeah, I just like you know, I love uh, you know, I the issue is is people try to put a sweet potato in, like, turn it into a French fry. I'm like, let us sweep well, let a sweet potato be a sweet potato. Let a French fry be a French fry. You know what I mean? I don't know.
+
+[48:45] But that's me. I'm not speaking for other people, because John, you like sweet potatoes, right? Yeah. But I probably don't have them in enough variety of ways. And would you have thought of making uh teramo salata with uh sweet potato?
+
+[48:58] No. No. You would not. No, I would not have. Yeah.
+
+[49:01] But you say this is something that's actually currently made in Athens, popular in Athens, which I think is interesting. And I've had one, there's also a recipe for sweet potato for I'm sorry, tar musselath with tomato paste. Oh, yeah, I saw that, but it's a little bit of tomato paste. Yeah. And you said it it really makes a nice like color.
+
+[49:17] What was there? Anyway, so like this is a breadth of things that I would not have known. By the way, John, whole chapter on dips. Ooh, love that. Whole chapter, dips.
+
+[49:28] Apparently, dips, big deal, right? Or not? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. We love bread.
+
+[49:33] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, all right, I'll say. So, oh, another thing FOMO'd out, which this I'm sure I can get here. I'm gonna mispronounce it. Trahana.
+
+[49:42] Trahana. All right, talk to me about this product. Okay, trahana is ancient. It was a way to preserve milk. It's made, there are a lot of different ways to make it, but generally, the the whole uh concept is you take grain, mu wheat, essentially, either flour or cracked wheat or bulgar.
+
+[50:01] You cook it in some milk of choice. It could be goat's milk, it could be uh buttermilk, it could be yogurt. There are also Lenten versions that are like dairy-free, but I don't want to confuse people. You cook it, it becomes like overcooked clumpy oatmeal. You break up those clumps, you dry them in under the Greek sun at the end of the summer when the sun's really hot, usually on some sort of screen, you turn them so that they dry on all sides, you keep them covered to keep the flies away.
+
+[50:31] And then you press that through a fine mesh sieve. And you know, there there are now commercial uh uh ways to do it, you know, faster ways to do it. But uh, and it was a way to preserve dairy, and that is cooked up most traditionally just as a simple porridge. It could be the breakfast porridge that was like the country farmer's breakfast. Um now it's this something that's also captured imaginations in among younger chefs.
+
+[50:56] And it's cooked up in all sorts of ways. It makes a delicious soup. There are two versions of it, two general versions. One is sweet and one is sour. The sweet is not exactly sweet, it's just not sour.
+
+[51:07] Let's say it's bland. It's blander. So but is it is it does it have like a barnyard aroma, like a lot of like dried milk yes, and it's delicious. I I like barnyard, it's delicious. Umami, it's got umami.
+
+[51:20] How thick do you make the porridge? Like I'm trying to picture it. That's completely up to you. Uh, usually it's pretty thick. It's like sort of like oatmeal, about the consistency of oatmeal.
+
+[51:29] And you reconstitute it with water. Water or stock, if you want. It depends. You know, it's and you can buy a decent of that here? You can buy a decent trahana here, yeah.
+
+[51:39] You can buy the sour version and the sweet version, and it's made all over, it's made all over the eastern Mediterranean. It's called tarcana in other places. It's the name is onomatopea for like crunchy pebbly. Uh, all right. Well, that's another one I gotta try it.
+
+[51:53] It's great. John, here's a crazy recipe that you're gonna enjoy. So, and this I'm asking this for a particular reason. So there's a uh it's called lemon chicken ribs in the in the book. So from what I gather, you take the thighs.
+
+[52:05] So when I take thighs, what I do, I take the bone, I run the knife down the bone, then I put the I put it, the knife under the bone and blast off the knuckle on either side, and then cut off the little piece of cartilage. I have a boneless thigh. Here, shoop, shoop, and then you cut the flaps off. What do you use the flaps for? Because you're just eating the the little ribblet that you make with the thing.
+
+[52:28] What do they do with the rest of the thigh meat? I I don't know. Uh maybe, I don't know. Uh, you caught me off guard on that one. But that recipe was one of those things when I first moved to Greece, and we'd go to you know, Taverna's, and there'd be chicken, katopolo, katopolo paidakia, chicken ribs on the menu.
+
+[52:45] It was a running joke for me. Like chick they don't chickens don't have ribs. What are we eating here? Like, what is this? Yeah.
+
+[52:52] And yeah, and it's just that's what it is. It's it's strips of chicken, basically. Strip strips of thigh. Yeah, then like uh the the lemon goes in in the marinade, right? So it's before it's before you cook it.
+
+[53:04] So they cooks with the lemon. It I think so. Yeah, yeah, I gotta remember. It's the olive oil and lemon juice in the marinade. Right.
+
+[53:10] Maybe a little mustard too. Right. So the in other words, the acids tenderizing when it before, and then you it's like it's uh like braised out with the potatoes, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[53:20] That was an interesting idea because uh and then but I'm thinking like, what do you do with the rest? You make a salad. And you know what? I hate to say this. There are people in my family who prefer chicken salad made with the white meat, but it's not me though.
+
+[53:32] That's not me. I I mean, like, I'm obviously a thigh guy. You know what I mean? Like thigh, like i if they could grow a chicken that was just skin and thigh, I would be happy. You know what I mean?
+
+[53:43] Like those are my favorite uh parts. All right. Going down the list of things uh that I thought were interesting, and you said this one was mentioned in the Michelin guide, but it looked interesting uh for a number of reasons. Was I'm gonna mispronounce this. I'm gonna just have you say this.
+
+[53:57] Mustokulura. Yeah, so you want to describe this cookie? So this cookie is made with uh either with petimesi or with grape must. And what's the what is the difference? Grape must obviously is just the juice before it starts to ferment, and the pet petimesi is what you you boil down that juice, so it's kind of comes almost like a syrup.
+
+[54:18] Uh of any consistency that you desire. It could be thick, could be thinner. And they make this cookie, this this bakery uh in the Mesoya region, which is in sort of the wine, let's say, region of Attica, right outside of Athens, um, is famous for these cookies. And it they it's they're in season in the road. Uh, and people kind of flock there from all over the city to just for these particular cookies.
+
+[54:42] Um how hard are they? They're they come in two versions. They're crunchy, and they're also they also make a softer one, almost like a spongy kind of consistency. Oh, because I was wondering, because there's this cookie that we make every uh around Christmas time that's like a Calabrian cookie that is just honey and flour, and it's like it'll break your teeth, but like you become addicted to it after a while. But um, so this is not like that.
+
+[55:05] Yeah, that's good. But like uh, it's like literally like how stiff can I make it before you know my arm breaks or my or my mixer breaks. It's just honey and flour, but this one's got oil, so this one's a lot lighter. It's lighter, yeah. And there it's usually it's it's a great cookie for coffee.
+
+[55:21] Uh they come in different shapes, you could usually rings or like little braids. Yeah, it's like it's a classic. Yeah. And here's another one. Amer American, uh, it's literally uh you open the book and it looks like 1970s America.
+
+[55:36] It's uh uh called Chicago Sunday, which I by the way, I did not know there was something with Chicago's and Sundays. Uh, but yeah, you want to talk about this? Yeah, that's uh when I first started going to Athens in uh I guess the 1970s. And then as I got a little older and was able to start going around by myself, um, you know, I met a boy, and the boy ended up being my husband, and we used to uh he you know, he was a native Athenian, and he would take me to all these places all over Athens. And at that time, in I guess it was the late 70s, there was this ice cream Sunday that everyone knew as Chicago.
+
+[56:23] And it was just one of those things that was part of the fabric of the, you know, the city at the time. And turns out that it was in fact uh brought over to Athens by somebody who went on to open one of the most uh successful and uh upscale um pastry and coffee uh cafes in the center of the city who had spent time in Chicago. And I think if memory uh serves me correctly, Chicago is also the birthplace of what we know as the Sunday. I mean, it could be, I don't know, you know, people claim a lot of things. I know, people claim well, let's just say it's true because that then that means that the whole the rest of my story makes sense then.
+
+[57:02] So uh so he brought this ice cream sundae over, and instead of calling it a Sunday, which would have sounded weird in Greek, right? He called it Chicago, which had sort of sex appeal for I mean, let's be honest, it sounds weird in English too. A Sunday or a Sunday, because it's A.E., what does that even mean? Yeah. What is that even nobody nobody knows?
+
+[57:22] Everyone that's why Tom Carvel used to be like Wednesday, Sunday at Carval. You know what I mean? Like it's crazy. He was Greek, by the way. Really?
+
+[57:28] Yeah. You know, we had someone on his show who worked for him who invented Fudgy the Whale and Cookie Puss. We had her on like maybe five years ago or six years ago. Yeah, amazing story. Car Carvel and the Dove the Dove Bar Guy was Greek.
+
+[57:40] Really? Yeah, Carvel, good. Yeah, I mean Carvel was that was our Sunday outing. We would go to H Howard Johnson's and the big old Chevy on Sundays, and that was like the our being socialized as Americans. Right, so you have Tom Carvell, Green.
+
+[57:54] And then on the way Jacques Papin. Right. Hojos. Exactly. And on the way back, we'd have to stop at Carvel because he's Greek.
+
+[57:59] Yeah, well, and because it was good. It was good, yeah. It still is to this day. The crunchy things that she invented, I forget her name, it's out of my head now. That they're delicious.
+
+[58:08] Yeah. Carvel delicious. Alright, listen. Uh on our way out. I didn't get to talk to you about carabrusks.
+
+[58:13] I wish I could, and like whether they're similar to the Italian rust that I'm, you know, used to cooking from uh or cooking with, but uh I'll leave on this on this. Rock Baker says uh we should bring back the pet peeves. Rock Baker's pet peeve is when someone lets a kitchen timer go off, but they don't immediately tell you and ask you what it was for so they can do something in the kitchen. They just wait till you show up in the kitchen like 10 minutes later and like your timer went off, and he gets very, or she gets very rock baker gets very mad. So, uh, do you have any pet peeves on the way out?
+
+[58:42] A kitchen pet peeves that you really hate. Uh I hate underseasoned food in restaurants. Oh, yeah. It is bad. It's bad.
+
+[58:50] It's bad. It it I think, yeah, it's terrible. All right, that's a good pet peeve. Uh Diane uh uh Cochillis, thank you for coming on. Thank you for having me.
+
+[58:58] Yeah, get Athens uh food stories and love, a cookbook, and watch the uh next season of uh My Greek Table coming up soon on PBS. October 24th, we roll out. All right, nice guy willing. Cooking issues. Thank you.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you alive from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City News Stance Studios. Joined as usual with John. How you doing? Doing great, thanks.
+
+[0:21] Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels behind me. Hey, hey, hey. How are you doing? Yeah, doing doing all right. Whoa.
+
+[0:35] It's 200 episodes here at New Stance TV. What? Wow. And it seems like just yesterday we left the Voldemort Network. Uh over there on the West Coast, starting from top to bottom in the upper left, we got Quinn.
+
+[0:49] How you doing? Hey, I'm good. Good, good, good. And then uh working down to Los Angeles, we got uh Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing?
+
+[0:59] I'm good. Good. And uh, of course, last but certainly never least, Jack Insley, aka Jackie Molecules. How you doing? Yeah, I'm good.
+
+[1:08] Let me ask you a question, Jack. How the hell why do we start calling you Jackie Molecules? How did that happen? I don't even remember if so long. You don't remember this?
+
+[1:17] I remember like, you know, we were Yeah, okay, go go. Oh man, I don't know if I should tell the story on it. It's related to a sponsor read that you did not want to do. Because it included the word molecular. Right.
+
+[1:32] And then you said you can do sponsor read, you can do Jackie Molecules. Oh, yeah. It's all coming back to me now. Right. Mm-hmm.
+
+[1:41] That was back when people still cared about terminology. And I particularly hated the term molecular gastronomy. And so never wanted to say it on air. All those old lines have been, they seem so quaint. They've been erased.
+
+[1:57] Uh everyone's either retired or died. So it doesn't matter anymore. Nice. All right. And then, of course, uh today's special guest is Dave Wandrich, whose new book, The Comic Book History of the Cocktail, illustrated by Dean Coates, right?
+
+[2:15] Cod's Coats. Yeah. Like Katz. Anyway. Yeah.
+
+[2:19] Except nicer. He's a very sweet guy. Yeah, yeah. But it's not spelled that way, people. No, with a K.
+
+[2:27] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And an O. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[2:29] Anyway. Uh, so uh welcome. So this is the portion of the show where we just uh, you know, shoot the breeze for a couple of minutes about stuff that's happened in the past week or so or whatnot. And uh last week we didn't have uh, you know, any of the West Coast people because Amazon decided that they were gonna turn off everyone's phones. It seems like a plan.
+
+[2:47] Yeah, as one does. Yeah. By the way, I didn't know this until after I got uh home that day, but also no architects could do any work. Did you know that? Yeah.
+
+[2:54] Yeah. I heard that. Yeah. Right, because uh they were they do everything in in CAD these days. Well, well, but so they've done in CAD.
+
+[3:01] I mean, like my wife's the last generation of people that actually like learn to draw by hand, you know what I mean? And use the old school AutoCAD with like the weird like like pre-made tablets and all that. Um but now it's not only CAD, but it's all shared live with all the subcontractors and engineers, and it's great because it stops mistakes from being made. Like you no longer have an engineer putting a duct through someone's forehead. Right.
+
+[3:24] You know what I mean? Because they can fix this. Although, you know, I mean I'd pay money to see it. Yeah, it depends on well, so going back uh even further before I finish this. Do you remember when they built the Conde Nas Tower, the original like one in midtown?
+
+[3:35] Yeah, yeah. And a pipe fell off the ceiling and went through someone's apartment and through someone's head. Ooh, that's not nice. No, no, but I didn't know her, and this is now, you know, 20 years ago at least, or more. And so, like, we always used to ponder like you're in you think you're safe because you're inside of a small cube.
+
+[3:53] Right. Like in the upper floors in Manhattan, you're like, I've I've arrived, I'm safe. Now remember, at this time I was living behind, I was living in an illegal loft with a Fox police locked door that was like bolted on like all sides, like as New Yorkers did in the in the old days. Yeah, it would have taken it would have taken an act of God or a series of explosives to get me out of my apartment back then. And uh it's just the idea that you could be sitting in your apartment having a cup of coffee and a pipe would just like fall through your head.
+
+[4:20] Yeah, through your ceiling, which is made out of you know, compressed Kleenex and uh crazy, right? Uh oh boy. Yeah. Anyway, so they all use a program to try to prevent this stuff from happening now, but it's run by Amazon. Like the back end is run by Amazon, so all the architects went dark.
+
+[4:37] Crazy. Well, judging by their recent work, I don't think we missed very much. Hey now. Listen, architects have been making bad things for a long time. Oh, I know.
+
+[4:45] Like, since there's been architects, there's been bad architecture. And we'll get to this later about cocktails. Since there's been cocktails, there's been a lot of country. There have been bad cocktails, right? Yeah.
+
+[4:52] It's just we tend to focus on the ones that are coming out right now. Yeah because that's when we're alive. Yeah. Uh uh, but uh Nastasia, something for you. So the people won't know this, but uh back when Nastasi and I used to live on the same coast and actually go to work back, you know, together like people did, one of the things we would do is listen to Jim Croce, because Jim Croce, right?
+
+[5:11] Uh although Nastasia, like there's there's two of his famous songs, Nastasi and I have bone bones to pick with. So you don't those of you who don't know, Jim Croce was a singer songwriter who died in a playing class in uh crash in Nakedish, actually, in the early 70s, taking off a horrible crash. The pilot had run like two miles to get there, but he was a little old, he had a heart condition. He was probably he died, I think, on takeoff, and therefore everyone else died. Anyway, uh so two of his most famous songs are about bad phone etiquette and uh being what Nastasia used to like to call a beta male.
+
+[5:45] So she has a problem with these two songs, one of which is Operator, where clearly Jim Croce, he calls this operator to try to get a number and doesn't understand that the operator is just in the service industry. He doesn't want to deal with his shenanigans. It's not a bartender. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[5:59] So Nastasi and I'm like, well, what does this operator give a crap about you know? And he goes on and on and talks to that part, to that to that uh operator. The worst part, right, Stas. Well, what's the do you remember what the worst part of that song is, Stas? Uh no.
+
+[6:15] He says you can keep the dime. Yeah. You can keep the dime. It's it's there's no mechanism for that. There's no and first of all, it's the company's dime.
+
+[6:23] It's not the operator's dime. Yeah, yeah. Worst. Worst. And the other one, for those of you who aren't, you know, old enough to remember this.
+
+[6:31] When I was a kid, and even Nastasia, who's younger than I am when she was a kid, I'm sure Dave you're the same way. Not picking up the phone was not an option. When the phone in your house rang, you picked it up. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[6:43] And if you weren't gonna pick it up, you had to leave the house. There was no you didn't just sit around listening to it ring. No, that was that was uh the collapse of civilization right there. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[6:55] Yeah. Like, so like I know it's impossible for like the younger generation to understand this, but it just wasn't an option. You didn't really ghost people who didn't send it to voicemail. No, no, there was no voicemail. Yeah.
+
+[7:07] It's like not picking up the phone would have been the equivalent in like, you know, the 1700s of walking up to someone with a white glove and slapping them across the face. It just wasn't done. You know what I mean? Like, at least not without consequences. So uh consequently, you didn't call people late at night.
+
+[7:21] No. Ever. No, because that that was like your nearest and dearest have just died. Ding ding. Yeah.
+
+[7:28] So Nastasi and I, you know where I'm going with this, Daz, right? Yes. Yeah. So he's like, Jim Croce, I know it's kind of late. We're like, oh, who died?
+
+[7:40] And he's just calling to say he loves her in a song because he's too beta. Just tell her in real life that he loves her. He wakes her up, makes her think that her family's dead. Anyway. Well, that's a you know, put it this way, uh, once she got over the initial shock, it was like, this is much better than what I was thinking.
+
+[7:57] I guess. But I mean, to me that's Yetz loves me, okay. I guess to me, it's a turnoff. I don't know. What do you think?
+
+[8:03] You know what I think. All right, all right, true. But here's what's gonna make you mad, Nastasia. So one of my favorite comedians, uh Tim Robinson has a new show out, and they they make a plot point. Hey, out of Jim Croce's I got a name.
+
+[8:16] So now you are gonna probably have to endure Nastasia, a bunch of people who don't know from Jim Croce listening to it and then telling you about it. Yeah, see there's nothing Nastasia hates more. Yeah. Yeah, than someone else like horning in on her business. You know what I mean?
+
+[8:34] Anyway. Yeah, that's not that's not good. No, that's basically uh it's not food related, but that's you know You know, when they just when Fela Kuti got discovered by the hipsters. Worst. It was the worst.
+
+[8:44] I'd gone to see him at Felt Forum in 1986, you know. You know, I uh I I had his record since I was like 20. Now you're just another Schmo. And now I'm another Shmo, and everybody's like playing it. And uh, where's the fun in that?
+
+[8:57] Yeah, well, that's but that's another good thing about getting older though, is you no longer have to be different from other people. No. You know what I mean? Like, you know, uh, you know You don't have to keep up. You don't have to do anything.
+
+[9:07] No. No. You can you can like what you like and not worry about it, you know, nobody's gonna judge you. And if they do, all they're gonna say is you're old, which is obvious. So sick sick burn, bro.
+
+[9:19] Yeah, exactly. Where'd you come up with that one? Yeah. Well, you know, uh my new favorite phrase is uh get older, die trying. Yeah.
+
+[9:26] You know what I mean? Um so uh what are we what do we got on the West Coast? What do you got in the week? What's the week of in review? So I was at uh Thunderbolt last night.
+
+[9:37] Nice. Oh, you know, good friend, uh our friend Mike's place. And my girlfriend uh and I was like, let's catch the end of the Dodgers game. It was like bottom of the eighth. I was like, let's just catch the end of the game, World Series game.
+
+[9:49] Yeah. So needless to say, I don't know if you saw the game went eighteen innings. Wait, what? No, I did not see this. Uh the only thing, you know, the the last thing I know about baseball is that uh Lou Garrick played a lot of games and got ALS.
+
+[10:03] Like I don't know, I know nothing about baseball. You know what I'm saying? But I'm sure most people who listen to this will know this stuff. 18 innings is um a lot of innings. Yeah.
+
+[10:16] Yeah. I mean, that's playing until three in the morning. Right, but you get arrest for three outs all the time, right? I mean, you get to sit down for a while. Yeah, it's not I'm not talking about the players, I'm talking about the fans.
+
+[10:26] No, but that's why you do it at a cocktail bar and not at the stadium. Yeah. Well, even there it would get uh it would, you know, after about the 14th inning, I think I would detect a certain theme, you know. Well, Dave, are you that kind of guy that uh that gets up at the seventh inning so that you don't have to deal with the traffic to get your vehicle that way, you know, if if you're driving, get out of this name. No, I'm unfortunately that kind of guy who hasn't been to a baseball game since I saw the Mets in uh 1977.
+
+[10:55] Nice. And then, you know, I just went off and hung out in punk clubs and did that kind of thing. Uh yeah, I I I have been to a couple baseball games because uh, you know, my you know, Dax wanted to go, so I've been to him and people always leave. I haven't liked moron. That's like uh is that me?
+
+[11:10] Uh that's like uh that's like uh morons who like and this I see this every year and I'm about to see it again, who go to see Handel's Messiah. Yeah, they get up after the Halloween chorus and walk out. The worst. Yeah. Morons.
+
+[11:24] Although I I go to the opera every now and then and I will leave uh after i i I will leave during the second intermission. Yeah sometimes if it's not in a German opera. Uh I'm just messing up. Usually not Verdi, let's say. You know, he knew how to make things kind of amusing.
+
+[11:42] Yeah, there was some snap there, but uh or Bellini, you know, people like that. But uh yeah, I c I can I could see it under some circumstances. It's like I got I got my money's worth, I got enough. This thing is going on and on and on, and I'm gonna go home and go to bed. Wow.
+
+[11:58] I I like I like the idea that you would get your your money's worth but you're like, I know the story anyway. Yeah, I've seen it before. You know, yeah, yeah. I don't know, I guess that's true. But it depends.
+
+[12:06] I mean if somebody's really just uh killing it, you know, uh in the uh in the tenor line or whatever, soprano line, then then I might then I'll stay. But let's also be honest, right? You're not like preventing someone else from seeing the opera by leaving. No. That the opera houses aren't full of people.
+
+[12:22] You can get tickets to the opera. You can get tickets for very cheap if you want. So, but like like Handel's Messiah at Trinity is like this sells out like this. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
+
+[12:31] So you're literally preventing someone from seeing it. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, it's horrible. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[12:37] It's like that's when you have an obligation to stay. Yeah. And also, I have to say this. If you're gonna do, don't have the first time that you listen to Messiah all the way through be live. Like listen through it a couple of times so you get familiarize yourself.
+
+[12:50] So you know what's gonna happen, you know. We like sheep. Get to learn to like the less famous parts. That's all I'm saying. Yeah.
+
+[12:56] You know what I mean? Appreciate them. You know, I I went with my wife to see a weird uh organ German organ music from the 1600s being played at St. Thomas on Fifth Avenue, right around the corner from here, which has a very good organ and very good acoustics. But everybody is sitting in the audience and the organ player's behind us.
+
+[13:17] So everybody's kind of like craned around trying to crane around and finally just gives up and stares off into space and lets the lets the music wash it wash around them. And that was sort of the best way. As one should. Yeah. You know what's weird is like, first of all, like it's just so random, we shouldn't get into this.
+
+[13:32] First of all, uh Dave's a bit also a bass player, so like, right? You're also like back in the day. Back in the day, ex-bass player, let's say. Yeah, me too. Anyway, but uh so like organ music, I love organ music, right?
+
+[13:46] Oh, it's phenomenal. And nowadays you can go find like organs with old school, non, non uh even non-equal tempered organ. You can find all kinds of cool stuff. But uh the more I think about it, like back in the day, what's so funny about people like Bach is that they were just work a day musicians. They were cranking stuff, cranking stuff out.
+
+[14:02] Every day. They wrote music every day. Yeah, wrote it. Yeah. He's like, Oh, hey, yeah, here.
+
+[14:06] Oh, took out a few D minor. Boom. Yeah, yeah, boom, done. Next. You know what I mean?
+
+[14:11] Brandenburg Concerto, okay. Okay, I could do that. You know what I mean? It's such a weird thing. A couple hundred years later, you get people, they get maybe five symphonies, nine symphonies, and they're tapped out.
+
+[14:23] Yeah, no, he there was no bottom there. No, Haydn did over a hundred. Yeah. A hundred. Yeah.
+
+[14:29] That's a lot. That's a lot. He's like, oh, the Estrahazes need another. You know what I mean? You know, handle like, uh, now they want music for their fireworks.
+
+[14:40] Okay. Exactly. I think bars are in the middle of the city. I'd imagine him as Yiddish instead for sure. Alright, maybe.
+
+[14:46] Who knows? Who knows? You never know. No, I think bars are the same way. You still crank them.
+
+[14:49] You crank them? Yeah, yeah. I mean, anyway. Uh all right. Uh, what do you got, Stas?
+
+[14:53] What do you got for me? Uh well last night it was like uh it was 57 degrees here. Um so I went over to Polski's house and he was making a uh bratworth, ham hock, and boiled potatoes for dinner. Like we were like hibernating. We're talking about Aaron Polski, aka Polcat, uh whose uh beverage company he now has live wire, but ex Harvard and Stone, you know, bar bar bartender's bartender, uh, and like tall-looking, metalhead-looking dude.
+
+[15:24] Um friend of the show. So, no sauerkraut. And sauerkraut. Okay, okay. I was gonna say, I was like, boom, boom, boom, and no sauerkraut.
+
+[15:34] Well, you know, I I would expect uh uh mustard and uh uh as we call it in Trieste, where my dad is from, Kren, which is fresh grated horseradish. Oh and that uh, you know, with mustard and and horseradish on your pork, that is heavenly. So did you go for the brats or for the hawks or for a mixture? All of it, all of it. But Dave, I want you to say what you and I have started doing where I send you a picture from LA and then and then what?
+
+[15:59] Oh. So uh, you know, I am in a uh I am in a fourth floor post-war apartment in New York City in a 20-story building with a view of the fine fair supermarket. Which is one one it's not one notch above or below, it's the same notch as like a sea town or a key foods. You know what I mean? They've tried to gussy it.
+
+[16:33] Yeah, well I mean food key foods can be good is the thing. Yeah, well, that's the thing. I've never seen a really good sea town. Yeah. I mean, they're like they're they're trying to shade it from C Town up to like food emporium.
+
+[16:45] Yeah. They're trying to get up to food emporium levels for those for the old school. They're dreaming. Yeah, old school New York supermarket aficionados, those who actually have shopped at a Gristetti's. Yeah.
+
+[16:55] Uh but uh so that's my view. And so like she'll send me like she's outside because people have outdoor space there. You have outdoor space because you're in Brooklyn, right? Yeah. Yeah, I don't have outdoor space.
+
+[17:04] I have a little tiny like patch of grass. Uh huh, nice. Which is nice. Yeah. I'm not complaining.
+
+[17:08] Your own grassy swart is a little bit more. It's a brand new building, uh gazing down on it. Uh well, you know, can't have everything in life. So anyway, so like she sends me a picture of it. Yeah.
+
+[17:17] But you could we could blow it up. I mean, we won't talk about it because if it happens now. I would never d dream of doing such a thing ever. Just for the record. You can dream.
+
+[17:25] One can dream. No, just for the record, never. So uh for the record. Yeah. For the record, never.
+
+[17:31] Yeah. Uh it wasn't me. So Nastasia around sunset, whenever that is where she is, like, you know, she'll send me a picture of this like gorgeous sunset that she's like sitting outside sipping her, you know, she sits real sparkling wine and not pet not because that's not her life. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[17:46] Yeah. So not that pet not whatever. Okay. So anyway, you get my point. So uh and so then I'll send her, I'll send her back a blurry photo from across the room of my tiny window, dark with like three city lights like peering into it.
+
+[18:02] Well, you know, New York supposedly has other charms. So I don't know what they are. But yes. I mean, look, I love this certain aspects of the scene. Oh, yeah.
+
+[18:11] It just gets to you. Well, they've also the kind of the fun aspects have been draining out. You know, like the little mom and pop shops that that you never know what you're gonna find. It's like, wait, like there's the like you go to the Jazz Record Center on the uh fourth floor or eighth floor, I think, of a loft building in Chelsea, and they've got like every jazz record ever, ever put out in there for sale, you know. And there are all these guys just going through it.
+
+[18:39] That kind of stuff I really like, but that's shrinking every year. There's gotta be just new stuff we don't know about though, like uh like uh I forgot I forget her name. Uh her dad was, I think Peter Sheldall, the critic. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh Carla, I know her.
+
+[18:53] Yeah, yeah. She wrote, you know, St. Mark's Is Dead, and her whole point is is that everyone has always thought that, you know, it sucks now. Yeah. You know, I mean, I you know, even my era, which is what's great about her book is reading it, I was like, Oh yeah, I remember thinking that all these kids sucked.
+
+[19:08] Although I always thought it was my generation that sucked. Yeah. I was like, we suck, not these younger people that sucked. Yeah, where we we failed them. Yeah.
+
+[19:15] I'm uh I I believe that I'm the first generation that hated itself. Or the first in my memory. Well, some of the beatniks were pretty uh pretty down on themselves. Yeah, yeah, I guess. Maybe, yeah.
+
+[19:28] See, it's what you say, everyone thinks they're new in there. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? And before that we didn't have generations because everybody worked for a living. Yeah, I just remember thinking we were a bunch of unmoored like morons.
+
+[19:40] Yeah, there was some of that. I I was pretty unmoored, that's for sure. Yeah. Yeah. But you know.
+
+[19:44] Yeah. Eventually, uh we found some somewhere to uh to uh limp it onto. Uh Quinn, what do you got for me before we get to cocktails? Uh I got a lot of stuff, so I'll taste it out a little bit over a few shows maybe. But we found a source for uh buffalo milk.
+
+[20:09] So obviously I've been making gelato with that. Just plain milk and then a chocolate with buffalo milk. And those turned out really good. Okay, good but different how from the other milk that you use. Other than the fact that it came out of a different animal.
+
+[20:32] Slightly slightly richer. I find that the the buffalo milk, at least that we got, had a slightly almost muddy taste, almost a natural acidity to it. So it was quite good. I'm a I'm assuming this is uh Italian type buffalo, not not uh American Great Plains buffalo that you're milking. Yeah, no, yeah, one more buffalo, yeah, yeah.
+
+[20:59] Yeah. Well, I'm I'm I'm not milking it. I'm just paying through the nose for the milk. Yeah. You're subsidizing the milking.
+
+[21:07] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, and there's that whole, like, he's in Vancouver Island, so there's that whole Italian expand community, you know. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[21:16] Nice. Yeah. All right. But so you think is it worth the extra money? Or is it just a nice to have done.
+
+[21:26] Um I think I really did like the results with the when it's like on its own. I think obviously stronger the additional flavors get like it would be worth it. But there's still some combinations. I wouldn't mind uh trying them with. Well, this brings me to something that I just I just handed in the last of the new revisions, by the way.
+
+[21:56] Hey, hey, congratulations. Thanks, yeah. So, like, you know, it's the 10th anniversary will come out when it's been 13 years old of my book. But uh I just handed in and like I realized that in the first edition I had never written like uh like just a here's like basic premises of how to think about making drinks. And what Quinn just said, I'm glad to hear you say this, Quinn, because often this is like I feel like I'm like screaming into the night.
+
+[22:23] If you're gonna use some ingredient that is either hard to obtain or special in some way, don't cover it up. Yeah. Highlight it. Right? Like, don't be junking it up.
+
+[22:36] You're like, you're like, well, don't infuse it with chamomile and then uh you know don't don't blend it, uh blend it in a half ounce in the back of your cocktail somewhere. Dumb, dumb that is waste. This is why, like, you know, like uh this is the this is uh the problem with uh shotgun cooking, shotgun mixology, all of these things. It's like if if you're just trying to make something that's you know, if you want to be Coca-Cola and be a new mix of flavors that has no distinct thing other than itself, and you're the one lucky person among millions who can make a mixture that is as iconic as coke, God bless. Right.
+
+[23:17] Otherwise, highlight the ingredient that you're that you're focused on. I was in uh Venice just a couple days ago, and I we went to a cocktail bar, and it happened to be an Amaro Nonino takeover of the bar. And they had a complicated list of cocktails with good, you know, a Nino's a very good brand of uh of you know Italian grappas and Amari and Pair TV and all that stuff. But uh so they they had this complicated cocktail list that like they were using top quality stuff and everything was hidden. Yeah.
+
+[23:48] And so I went to the bartender, can you just like put two parts of this really nice aged grappa, one part uh bianco vermouth, and uh a big bar spoon of of your bitter, of your Amaro, and just stir it up. And there you could taste everything. It was delicious. I mean, the best drink ever, no. But fine, and you could taste the quality ingredients.
+
+[24:13] Right. That's that's that's the thing. Don't so like the w like one the the th the bullet point in my thing is have a good idea and then don't mess it up. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[24:23] That's good. Simple. You know what I mean? Um which by the way, we're gonna have a bone to pick because often you conflate new techniques and shotgun, like just like throwing crap against the wall. Not the same.
+
+[24:36] Not the same. No, it's true. I I have limited space to to get into the subtleties, let's say, of modern mixology, and I wanted to have a little like impact. So, you know. Yeah.
+
+[24:47] But uh I'm glad to see that uh uh our friend Lucinda Sterling uh Sterling got a recipe in here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice. Uh Rusty Nail variant if my memory serves me to be a little bit more. Yeah, the trusty nail with uh Janeaver.
+
+[24:57] Yeah. Very simple drink, very tasty. Yeah. Works great. Uh okay.
+
+[25:01] So people are always with with like a uh, you know, Philip Duff excluded, of course. Like people still, they're not I would never use Jennifer and Gin in the same No, they're different. So different. But why do people even like because just because they had a historical connection, people try to make a connection with them. And I'm like, don't.
+
+[25:20] They make dry martinis with this stuff. That's a horrible drink. Yeah. Because it it's it's whiskey. All it is is is malt, whiskey, uh, mostly malt, like rye malt and uh and barley, I mean, originally, uh, with with just a little bit of uh juniper and some hops.
+
+[25:36] The hops are key, and it gives it this kind of bitter dry thing going. Yeah, and people are like, well, you know, the gin comes from I don't care. Yeah, I don't care. They're different. You know what I mean?
+
+[25:46] The English couldn't make Dutch gin. They did they couldn't afford the grains, so they did something different. Yeah, so and they made it a completely different spirit. Uh but anyway, so that's yeah, that that that always bugs me. Yeah.
+
+[25:56] But uh I mean, I I don't know whether it's actually gotten a resurgence or not. I think it's a good spirit to work with. It can be, but uh you have to be, you know, you have to like treat it like whiskey. You know, you make whiskey drinks with it and it's delicious. But if you make gin drinks with it, uh many of them are are just kind of thin and wrong.
+
+[26:16] Although, you know, it does make a good sour, so but so does whiskey. So well, I don't know. I I am not a huge whiskey sour guy, unless it's got the egg white in it because just the the wood and citrus. You know how you used to you used to hate like uh hot citrus drinks. Yeah.
+
+[26:38] I don't know if you still do. But you used to hate it. I I I do because they strip your throat. Yeah. Well for me like heavily wooded, like especially scotch, which is not even new, so it doesn't have the the vanilla and seedness of it.
+
+[26:53] But like, you know, so like I can tolerate it with American whiskies or like new oak whiskies. But like in Scotch, it's like unless you add something like ginger to it that covers up that kind of pukiness that you get when you mix like the heavy wood and the citrus, just don't love it. Unless it's got an egg white or something that that that strips some of the astringency out of the bag. I I like uh American whiskey better for for that uh for for sours. But uh you know what's really good with scotch whiskey is if you just use uh lemon peel and sugar.
+
+[27:25] Sure or use oleosaccharum that that's great. Because it doesn't get puke because it doesn't exactly it doesn't have the acidity. Right, right, right. It doesn't have the reflux uh yeah yeah which I don't know what causes that I gotta get Ariel on that. I've I I've asked this question a bunch.
+
+[27:36] Maybe someday she'll figure it out but like what is it like there's two things I don't like that come out with um certain like w whiskey even like apple whiskey used uh like you know layers usually using is uh there's a a puke note in my mind and uh and a bubblegum note neither of which I'm particularly fond of like bazooka joe like a bazooka joe note not fond of it. No. You know what I mean? No, nor should you be. No.
+
+[28:01] Yeah, there the you you know, um American whiskeys uh can be so woody. And uh that's something you gotta watch out for. And then uh you get so much uh acids from the wood that it really uh uh it boosts it extra once you add citrus. Uh yeah, right. But uh stick to twists and old fashioned.
+
+[28:25] Yeah, you know, but you gotta dial it down. I I always dial down the proportions. People to put too much juice in their juice drinks also. Yeah. I'll I'll use half an ounce.
+
+[28:34] I I don't think you need much more for a three-ounce drink. In the cocktail book, you are well, I mean obviously it's history, so you're doing things that are historical as well as new, but clearly, you know, a proponent of the sugar in the bottom. Um but uh having run all these tests on this, I think it really depends on the style you're shooting for. Like the more the more you do that, the more you're looking for like booze forward, like less diluted. Yeah, it's brighter.
+
+[29:03] Yeah, it's like so it's different, like style. So when you're longer, I think the syrup is actually better. But when you're shorter, in terms of some of the In a daiquiri is the only thing I've really tested, but yeah, uh often the syrup gives it a plasticky texture that I I don't think the syrup is fully blending with the citrus. Well, because the the water is already and the sugar have already like bonded. And the tests are tastes syrupy.
+
+[29:30] In the test that we've ran. Yeah, what we found is is that people who liked uh like Julio Cabrera and and Shannon uh Mustafer who you know liked a particularly dry with the amount of sugar they added, yeah. Very spirit forward daiquiry, those specs did taste better with sugar. And people who were, you know, doing uh like you know, a regular length American bartender shake with uh, you know, like one and a half ounces rum and three quarters each of syrup and two well, two, three quarter and flat three-quarter. Okay.
+
+[30:10] So that that spec, people in general at the at the seminar we did this at, and I've done it a couple of times since then, preferred the syrup. So it all really depends on the spec you're aiming for. It depends on your palate too. But uh but I mean like the same people tasting it, right? Two-thirds of them preferred sugar when it was their spec.
+
+[30:28] Right. And two-thirds of them preferred simple syrup when it was my spec. Uh, you know. Yeah. And so it was like, yeah, you know, but so it just goes to show that like life is complicated.
+
+[30:41] Yeah, you know, drinks are complicated. Yeah. You've got very, you know, few variants, but they are variants. Yeah. Uh well, and I think uh, you know, as a historian, you know, you can speak more to this.
+
+[30:52] Uh, but I think we make a mistake when we assume that someone who wrote a recipe back in the day was merely stupid. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, no, of course. Yeah.
+
+[31:04] Some some of them were, some of them were incompetent. As they are now. As they are now. But some of them knew exactly what that was, you know. I got onto the stir the sugar in instead of using syrup from reading old bartenders, and they say, you know, you should do it this way.
+
+[31:17] Don't use the syrup in in your sour. Just uh and I tasted it, and and for me, for my palate, bang, that's what I like, you know, is is because again, I don't use as much uh citrus as modern uh Mr. Potato Head bartender specs call for for a daiquiri. Right. I follow the old Cuban recipe which said half an ounce.
+
+[31:38] Right. So at half so you yeah. So but that that's the whole that's the whole thing. You look at something with your modern eyes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[31:44] And you're like, oh, that's not enough sugar. Well, it it isn't, probably, if you are one, using the amount of acid that you're gonna use, and two, if you're going to dilute it as much as a modern bartender dilutes it with their shape. Right, right. So those two things are true. Yeah.
+
+[32:03] Way too much. I mean, you know, not not enough sugar. Like you know, so it's like um Well, also people, I think there's a kind of a range between uh minimum necessary sweetness and maximum acceptable, you know, that where uh at minimum necessary, anything below that, no matter who you are, it's gonna be like tooth setting, you know? Right, yeah, yeah. And maximum acceptable is like, okay, this is sweet, but still tastes like a drink, not like uh uh juice or yeah, juice or syrup, you know, or something like that.
+
+[32:35] And that's a pretty wide range, and there's a lot of stuff that can go on in there. There is, but I would say even more than that, the o like the optimum for even an individual person can vary depending on the style you choose. Oh yeah, you know what I mean? So it's like no, I could see that. And so I think people often don't look at the to uh look, some recipes just suck.
+
+[32:54] Yeah. Yeah. But like if you look if you look at a recipe, I always encourage people, take it seriously, just make it the way they wrote it, at least one time. Yeah. At least one time.
+
+[33:02] Well, yeah, I I I see a lot of people who don't know who would never do that. Yeah. They they they of course they know better. You know, they know better than Harry Craddock. What the what does he know?
+
+[33:11] Well, uh isn't it Nastasia that hates the most when someone like leaves a recipe review and they s and they review it, but they say all the changes they've made. Yeah, yeah. Don't review it. Uh no, it's not the recipe. Not the recipe.
+
+[33:24] Be like, here's the recipe. Here, I made the recipe as written. It was good. I also did this variant. Fine.
+
+[33:29] Mossel Tough. You know what I mean? It's like knock yourself out. But uh, you know, at least make it as written once. You know.
+
+[33:38] Oh well. I s I subbed, I subbed out the lime juice with pineapple juice, and it just wasn't the same. Yeah. What a surprise. Yeah, dunces.
+
+[33:47] Uh you know, I talk about that in the comic book history vid in the dark ages uh of the 60s, etc., where uh pineapple juice replaces lime juice in a lot of drinks because it's pre-sweetened. There's nothing you need to do to it, you know. Yeah, well, uh, let's let's get to the book. Let's get to the book then. Uh so this is the comic book history of the cop.
+
+[34:11] How did this happen? First of all. Uh John, have you seen this? Take a look. Thank you.
+
+[34:18] I was talking with the publisher about some projects, and this is one they suggested. And I'd been thinking about doing a comic book for a long time anyway, because uh it's a good great way to reach people, and it's a great way to make stories come alive, you know. Uh so I was I jumped on it and did it, and it turned out to be a lot more work than I thought because they wanted it to be a serious history of the cocktail. They didn't want it to be just you know, breeze through. Yeah.
+
+[34:45] They they wanted it with notes and they wanted it like like let's make this real. And for those of you that don't, by the way, uh in the time we have remaining, if you're listening live on Patreon, calling your questions uh to Dave at 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507. And for those of you that don't know uh uh Mr. Wondrich's bona fides, uh he was uh the he wrote he yeah, English English PhD professor, blah, blah, blah.
+
+[35:11] But uh comparative lit, yada yada. But uh 1999, I guess started writing about cocktails for for Esquire. Yeah, right, and was their cocktail editor, I guess. They had Yeah, I was their drinks correspondent. Yeah, and you know, I started at the top of the biz and I've been working my way down ever since.
+
+[35:27] But then uh in 2003, like right when all of this uh stuff was hitting the fan, right? And by that I mean, you know, I first became aware of kind of what was going on with this with this cocktail McGill in like uh other than you know, making and drinking them myself and like you know, uh in like 2004. So in 2003, like uh Dave planted his flag early with this book, they kind of changed a lot of people's trajectory called uh Imbibe, which was uh 2007, that's 2007. Oh, wait, yeah, yeah. 2003 was the original cocktail book.
+
+[36:02] 2007 gets messed up. 2007 in bibe, but still only like a couple of years after people started doing this stuff. Yeah, yeah, it was still early. Because really, like I didn't I like in 2002, again, 2002-3, when I became friends with Evan over at WD50, like he introduced me to some of the people from Milk and Honey, which was I guess 2003 or 2002. When was that?
+
+[36:25] Yeah, that oh 1999. Really? It opened the same month I started writing for Esquire. It's funny. Funny, yeah.
+
+[36:30] Yeah. I didn't they weren't on my radar for that. December, December 1999. Yeah. So then, you know, there was this kind of underground thing, but then buy, which I guess like now is a couple years later, but still like three or four years later.
+
+[36:42] Yeah, yeah, not that much like cemented that importance of kind of history in this cut in the cocktail, in the cocktail renaissance, I would say. I tried to, you know, just get the uses of history, you know. It's like, here's why you learn this stuff. You've got stories, you've got uh inspiration to make your own drinks. You you know, there's a lot.
+
+[37:02] Well, you know, I mean, to go back at the time, there was it was a weird time because it was still seen as a need to recapture something that was lost. Yeah. You know what I mean? And that's what most of the good practitioners who are still remembered today, that's what they were primarily focused on. I think it's a mistake to say that they weren't because I was friends with all those people.
+
+[37:31] You know what I mean? That they didn't also know what was new and going on. Yeah, there was uh I I broke it down in the comic book history, because I I had to, I've never really talked about that period, you know, but I had to talk about it in this book. And I kind of think there were maybe four different constituencies that came together to be the cocktail revolution. There was like the bar flies and traditional bar people who just wanted bars like in the old days, you know, and like Dale was was was big on that.
+
+[37:59] Uh he's also practicing bartender, though. Yeah, exactly. Uh there were uh the culinary artists, the people who were uh looking at advanced culinary stuff and thinking, why don't we do this in the bar? This would be very cool and useful. Most of them were at restaurants.
+
+[38:18] Yeah, yeah, exactly, because they had to be. I mean, where else would you get the stuff? Then there were the antiquarians who were like, I've got to dig up this like dusty bottle of blah, blah, blah, you know, and and find this old cocktail book that nobody's seen in in 60 years. And and that was that was uh that was a crew, too. And uh, and you put them all together, uh and you get basically what we had, you know.
+
+[38:44] And everybody, like in the various groups, agreed on a few things. Fresh juice, use good quality spirits, you know, learn how to use your tools properly. So it wasn't like the they would I don't think people were really at each other's throats yet. No, we all they they never that's the that's the messed up thing. Yeah.
+
+[39:04] Like for as much as people try to make hay that there was these kind of camps, like that entire group would come because we were downtown. They would come over to the French culinary. Yeah, exactly. We would all hang out. Yeah.
+
+[39:16] Everybody was friendly, everybody, you know, and everybody was like, huh, that's interesting what you're doing. I might not, you know, do that, but cool. But there was a lot of stuff, like even like with the new tech stuff, right? Like two of the first people to buy centrifuges that I knew were Chad and Christy. Yeah.
+
+[39:32] And uh Alex Day. Yeah. From Death and So De Death and Co. and I forget where Chad and Christie were. You know, kind of uh moving the art forward.
+
+[39:43] Right. Well, but the thing is like they never really they never wore it necessarily on their sleeve, except except at Walker Inn. But you know what I mean? But they never kind of like uh present that. It wasn't uh like uh Matthew Bax's bar in Melbourne that I that's gonna be.
+
+[40:01] Yeah, I never went there. Yeah, oh what an amazing bar. All the booze in the bar, all the bottles hung from the ceiling on bungee corns because they needed the back bar for their centrifuges and uh roadovaps and all that stuff. That was the era when the the this kind of stuff on the internet was so new that you still had people who thought they could crib other people's ideas and not get caught. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[40:24] So there was someone I forget who it was in Australia who got nuked because came over, did a a tour of the US, went to WD50, which is Wiley's restaurant, and then cribbed a bunch of stuff. And then the people in his hometown, I for even forget what the chef's name was, were like, uh, we've all been around the world. We know this dish. There's the internet now. You know what I mean?
+
+[40:44] It's like it's fine to do like uh it it it's it by the way, no one needs to do a new new anything, right? But if you're going to present as new, don't crib without reference. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You could do like homages to anybody.
+
+[41:01] Yeah, yeah. That's fine. Yeah. Everybody likes that. Everybody loves an homage when it's delicious.
+
+[41:05] Yeah. You know what I mean? Exactly. And you can tinker with it just a little bit. Do whatever you want.
+
+[41:09] As long as you tip the hat. Yeah. Tip the hat. Yeah, easier. Also.
+
+[41:12] Yeah. Always easier. Yeah. Um, anyway, but I think what's interesting, uh, and so like to get back to it before we get to the the book again. I saw that you wrote uh, I don't know where it is.
+
+[41:23] I don't have it. I have it. Oh, uh in January of this year, why is my drink so damned weird in punch? Yeah, right. And I think, you know, I think we have like slightly differing perspectives on kind of what's going on.
+
+[41:36] Maybe we don't. I'll ask you. Like for me, the pandemic, which you you know rightfully say in here, like a bunch of old timers, not even old timers, like relatively young timers, got out of the business. Yeah. And when it came back, there did seem to be a great unmooring of things.
+
+[41:53] Yeah, all the history programs uh that were teaching bartenders like their traditions and et cetera, those all went away. Yeah. But it's been great for me. Yeah, see? It's all it's always good for somebody.
+
+[42:03] Yeah, well, because uh all these old lines were erased, yeah. And, you know, the people I don't really feel like I have a camp, but people who thought that I had a camp, like they're more people in my quote unquote camp than you used to be. Well, young bartenders, what's really hard for a young bartender is talking to people. Yeah. You know, what's really easy for them is manipulating their digits and uh making complicated things.
+
+[42:27] All kinds of digits, like finger digits and yeah, yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah. Moving, moving, moving their little fingies. Yeah, exactly. Because uh they they're good at that, you know, they're dexterous, they're energetic, they're ambitious.
+
+[42:42] What they're not great at is schmoozing with customers and talking to them and seeing what the customer wants. They're much better at uh saying, I made this for you, admire it. Right. You know, you know So that's that that's that's sort of where I come down on it. But I mean I think that the complexity of the complexity of menus, and I had this argument with uh Jeremiah when we were opening Contra, is you know, he didn't want the menu to be, and first of all, Nastasi will verify this.
+
+[43:12] I detest choice. Like I just don't like being overwhelmed with choice. Just tell me what I'm gonna have, do a good job. That's me though, right? But I think you can I think there's a difference between presenting a menu that's overwhelming and because there's ways to make new things inviting.
+
+[43:32] Yeah, but you know what's even more inviting is you have some old things on the same menu as the new things, so that you're not shoving all this innovation uh down the throats of your customers. You know, it depends on what you're yeah, I think it depends on what you're shooting for. You know what I mean? Well if you're shooting for an all-young people bar where where you've got, you know, the the latest and the greatest of uh of the you know of the current generation, and you're you're trying to be cutting edge and all things, et cetera, then then that's one thing. You know, that's that's a bar that I'm not gonna go to, but never.
+
+[44:05] Well, I mean, but the thing is that like you can be you can be not doing the classics, but also not being crazy. Yeah, you could do that too. I mean that's but that's like hopefully my shtick. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, no, no.
+
+[44:17] Simple flavors. Yeah, you you're you're always very good about that. But you know, you're not uh you you're you're on the conservative end of the spectrum now, which has got to be weird for you. But the thing is, I think I feel like I've always been there. It's just people didn't know.
+
+[44:29] Right. You know what I mean? Like, but uh you know, you know, uh uh so many uh new bars, they they're really, really, really pushing to to do these complex drinks that are that are using rare ingredients and uh and all that. And I guess it's fun, but it's uh it's not fun for everybody. Yeah.
+
+[44:52] And all those people, when I when I wrote that article, they all said, well, you can just order a regular cocktail then, old man. And no, you can't. They're not stocked for it. The bartenders aren't trained to make the classics. They don't have any of the rare ingredients you need need to make some of the classics, and they're not interested.
+
+[45:10] We we specifically don't carry some things because we don't want to make certain drinks. Right. Because we hate those drinks. Yeah. But that's I feel like that's fine.
+
+[45:19] Like I specifically don't have certain ingredients because I don't want to make those drinks. You don't want to make espresso martinis or porn stars or whatever. Yeah. So can you do it? I'm like, No.
+
+[45:28] No. Yeah, that's that's the old way, is like, no, we don't have vodka in our bar. Yeah, I mean, which I do. Like, I don't like I kind of wish I could sell more vodka drinks because I think it's a good canvas for certain flavors. Yeah, it does.
+
+[45:38] I do too. No one will order it from us. I make, you know, I make vodka drinks occasionally. No one will order it from us. I can't use it.
+
+[45:43] Yeah, nobody nobody wants me to to give them a vodka drink also. One of the best drinks I ever made at existing conditions was a vodka drink and no one ever ordered it. I used to do it uh we did a very nice vodka old fashioned with uh with demerara syrup and you know a couple like interesting bitters at uh five ninth over in the meatpacking district back in two thousand three four or five whenever the hell that was and uh that was that was really interesting. Nobody ordered it at all. No.
+
+[46:17] Right. It's like it's like you get to you get to a point it was super tasty. Yeah you get to a point where people like trust you to do all of the stuff but not to make something with vodka to tell us yeah exactly no no it was you know the it drinking is always performative and they were performing people who don't drink vodka drinks. Yeah yeah yeah yeah you know that was their their stage. Yeah use uh use the appropriate spirit for the task exactly is there a question coming in there's two questions on Discord oh wait can you can you read them John because I can hear him better uh first is I would love if one rich had any major surprises or new info come up from the research on his of his other editors while working on the Oxford companion that's the first one.
+
+[46:58] Uh yeah there was lots of stuff um you know everybody everybody dug in and uh I worked with Frederick Smith on the rum entry and Frederick is a very interesting guy and has uh had a lot of interesting uh uh stuff that about uh the the early rum trade. Uh I'm trying to remember. That book is two books ago now. So and uh it was so traumatic, I've put it somewhat somewhat out of my mind. But uh yeah, I I learned uh Doug Staley from DC is a really good researcher of uh bartenders and old cocktails, and he found a a bunch of interesting stuff.
+
+[47:42] Uh I can't remember exactly the details of it. But yeah, you know, everybody uh almost everybody pitched in really well. A few people never turned in anything. I didn't. I was supposed to do something I never did.
+
+[47:55] Well, you know, we don't hold it against you, I'm here. But uh, but it that happens. Uh uh, but okay. What was the other question, John? Yeah.
+
+[48:03] The other one was could use some collective advice and or recipe from the Dave's about a large format cocktail or punch for a studio opening in two weeks. If only we knew someone who wrote a book called Punch. And if only there wasn't a section in the comic book history of the cocktail, which Patreon users can get at a discount from Kitchen Arts and Letters. If only there wasn't a section on punch with instructions in this book. Illustrated instructions, no less.
+
+[48:29] Yeah, you know, if only we had that kind of resource here, Dave. Yeah, I know, right? Well, I mean, the only advice I'd say is use pot-stilled spirits, uh, rum, preferably. If you if you use good pot still rum with lemon peel and sugar left overnight and lemon juice and water, you're gonna make the best bowl of punch that ever anybody's ever had. It's incredibly simple.
+
+[48:57] Where are you on the giant block of ice to prevent overdilution as it sits? Uh if I'm doing it for uh a long afternoon, I'll do that. I'll use that. If I'm making the punch to be served out instantly, I'll use small cubes. So what is the like so what's the usual use case here?
+
+[49:14] Like uh you what's your optimum size punch bowl? So if I'm gonna have a party, how many times should I think about refilling my punch bowl? Let's say it's a two-hour party. How many times should I refill it so it's freshened? How many people see it all it's all based on that?
+
+[49:30] Right, but in other words, but like what's the actual sit time? What's the good sit time of it? Oh, it could sit for an hour if you've got a big block. It's okay if it gets diluted, it's better. That's that's the that's the best thing about punch, is as the party goes on, it gets weaker.
+
+[49:45] And so people could keep drinking it without getting as absolutely trashed as you would expect. So, although you also advocate small cups. Yeah, I do. I do. In the in the comic book history of the cocktail, you call out uh I can't count that well m visually, memory-wise, but something like five or six of the classic ones, even though you don't necessarily give recipes for it.
+
+[50:07] Yeah, yeah. Uh what's your favorite of those? And you know, I've never had fish house punch. I was gonna say, 'cause you're a Pennsylvania guy. Yeah, and peach brandy.
+
+[50:14] I've never so first of all, uh, they were supposed to bring remember like 10, 12 years ago they're gonna bring peach brandy back? They tried. They tried. But I've never I've tasted a sample, I thought it was good. And the secret, because they went out of business, I can tell you all, is they were buying, they were buying 55 gallon drums of uh just expired peach puree from the Gerber Corporation.
+
+[50:33] Okay. So that they could distill this like fairly high quality, but no longer baby friendly peach goop into peach brandy. Oh, I manage and process. Yeah. Because they are you you beat them down with sticks or grind them, and the peaches are, you know, sticky and gross.
+
+[50:55] And and uh we i i you would think it's just a southern. We grew peaches up here. I'm sure it's a good use for our country. Oh no, they made more than peaches. They made it in New York.
+
+[51:04] Uh it was we don't make the best eating peaches, but I'm sure they distill wine. It was America's luxury spirit. It was the most expensive spirit made in America until it disappeared in the second half of the 19th century. So is that where peach stops comes from? Uh peach schnaps is like you take a little bit of peach extract and some beet uh beet spirit and a lot of sugar and you pour them together.
+
+[51:33] And uh there's there's nothing natural to it. But uh uh unfortunately the real stuff was like distilled from peaches. I've tasted some that's good. Oh my god, yeah. The the uh high wire distillery, uh Ann Marshall and Scott Marshall make a really lovely one.
+
+[51:47] Every year they make a small batch and uh but it's not it's not punch price friendly. No. It is from it is in my house. I I will use it no matter what, you know, because uh it makes the best punch. Oh, the other truly amazing punch, I think, is uh Chatham artillery punch, which is you also mentioned in the book.
+
+[52:05] Yeah, I don't know that one. Oh, lethal, lethal, lethal. So what so give give me the give me the basics of the two punches? Uh Chatham Artillery Punch is uh quart of bourbon, quart of strong Jamaican rum, quart of cognac or armagnac, uh another quart and a half of shrub. With the oli the oleo shrub.
+
+[52:28] Yeah, olio shrub is which is uh we don't need to get into it now in detail. You make it make a make an oleo like like modern, but then you add juice, the you add the juice back to it, shake it, dissolve it, dump the whole McGill in. Exactly. And then uh you fill it up with three three quarts of champagne. So how long is that last the champagne, or is it okay that it flattens out as much?
+
+[52:49] It it it lasts uh I made a huge, huge amount of it once. Uh Greg Best, the great bartender from Atlanta and I uh put it together for Southern Food Waste Symposium. And uh we used a case each of bourbon and uh and and the other spirits and three cases of sparkling wine. And uh by the end of a house, what you used to do. Yeah, yeah, basically by the end of an hour, people were sitting in the bathtub scooping out what was left from the from next to the drain.
+
+[53:23] Nice. So people were absolutely hammered. I bet. So you can make uh you can make that stuff disappear really quickly. And give us the give us the quick fish house.
+
+[53:32] Uh fish house is uh two parts rum, one part peach brandy, one part cognac, uh lemons, sugar, you know, again, you can do an oleo as uh and a shrub uh as uh uh uh uh to taste, basically. Uh and then uh water and nutmeg. Very simple. Nice. Very good.
+
+[53:57] I like how you say do uh I believe the words that you wrote in punches was nutmeg not optional. Yeah. No, you need the nutmeg. I mean that's uh well I think it's also like uh it's nice in this in the in the book is you try to bring um back, you know, the hist history. Some people have been written out of history, yeah, and you're trying to rewrite even stuff that, you know, wasn't necessarily available in terms of scholarship 15 years ago.
+
+[54:21] Oh, I but I you know, when I started uh 25 years ago and I started writing about cocktail history, uh the first thing I found is like there are so many people who have been forgotten who were really important. And, you know, some of them were white males, many of them, but many of them were were black, many of them were immigrants from, you know, all over the world. Uh there were many women making drinks, and all of those have been sort of shoved to the side. Now people are trying to bring them back, but uh a lot of the people who are doing it uh are maybe not demon researchers. So you see the same names over and over again.
+
+[55:04] I tried to get a little beyond that. Right, right. And find, you know, uh but I've been doing this for 25 years, keeping files of these people, because I think that's the real story of, you know, it's it's America. Uh there's no America without black people working in it and doing, you know, doing stuff. There's no America without women doing stuff.
+
+[55:22] Uh i i the whole idea is absurd. Well, let's go to the julep section then. Yeah. Uh and let's talk about the julep, which you, you know, I think rightfully say has been debased to a once-a-year kind of a thing. But I I actually didn't know until I read the book like the the breadth of what the julep was at one time.
+
+[55:41] It was a very fancy drink, briefly, in the years right before the Civil War. Uh African American bartenders, both enslaved and uh and uh free free blacks of color as they were known, uh were the specialists. Not the only ones, but the most prominent ones uh who made these things and they would like to use brandy, always brandy. Uh before before the Civil War, the South, it was really low class to drink whiskey. You know, and this was a gentleman's drink, so it would be always brandy.
+
+[56:13] Maybe you could sneak a little rye in with the brandy, but you needed a lot of brandy. And then they'd use like Madeira and Port and you know, bits of that, and uh uh maybe a little bit of marischino liqueur, and you know, just they were they were fancying it up, sometimes too fancy, I'm sure. As per our previous uh But I mean I never thought about this. The main shtick was they didn't have citrus necessarily. They put a little bit of some people put even put citrus in it.
+
+[56:43] So, you know, it was supposed to be no citrus, it was supposed to be mint sugar booze and lots and lots of crushed ice, of very finely cracked ice, so much that uh in these years before air conditioning, the hot, humid uh air in places like Virginia would freeze on the the moisture in the air would freeze on the outside of the glass and make a thick coating of of ice. There's nothing more exciting when you see a glass like that. Yeah, yeah. It's like that is cool. Well, I know that you also there's certain sites that I know you in particular love, like you love the site of an airline uh drink cart.
+
+[57:19] Oh yeah. It's so Pavlovian. I almost bought one at one point, and then I was like, no, I'm not gonna spoil it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's inching to me.
+
+[57:29] And I'm sitting there and then in in my seat just looking at it, willing it to come faster. Come on, come on. So speaking of days before air conditioning, I remember back when uh so one of the famous bars in um New Orleans is the Napoleon House where they they strangely do a hot muffaletta, which I actually enjoy. Yep. And uh, you know, you get their pimps, cup, and Sazeracs.
+
+[57:50] We got two more minutes. Yeah. And uh was something lost when they air conditioned that place? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, it wasn't the same lazy place.
+
+[57:59] Yeah. You know, it was it was uh, I mean, like 20 years ago, I would go and sit at a table, uh, listen to the classical music and drink, uh, I'd alternate between Sazrax and Pim's cups. And there wasn't a huge crowd, but there'd be people, we'd run into people. I remember my uh uh wife and I, Karen and I ran into a former co-we worker who was down there uh having a dirty weekend with an air Air Force pilot, and we bagged her. We we ran into her at the Napoleon house, and she was like, uh this wasn't supposed to happen.
+
+[58:35] Yeah, no, it was a great place for kind of melting into your bar seat. Yeah, very good for that. Yeah. Uh all right, so last thing, because we're gonna run out of time here. Here's some uh new new-ish scholarship that I wasn't aware of, and John were talking about this.
+
+[58:47] Uh cocktail, I guess originally was uh either a piece of ginger or a hot pepper that you shoved up a horses behind. Yeah. To make a cock its tail up so you could sell it. Yeah. So it didn't seem like a worn-out old neck.
+
+[58:59] Yeah, so then it became like the thing that a gent would a sporting gent would take in the morning. You know, it's like as my cocktail, I'll take this. You know, so but uh originally, yeah, that's uh I've got I've got like little things talking about little like newspaper bits talking about uh uh ginger and pepper as cocktail. Yeah, right. Well, uh I wonder what the relative merits and demerits are of hot pepper versus ginger up the up the wrong way.
+
+[59:27] I well, you're known for experimental science. So geez, Louise. Uh all right, so listen, so again, uh the book is the comic book history of the cocktail. Also, I'll ask you this in the two seconds I have remaining. It says, I shall not reveal these secrets until I do the uh comic book history of the dive uh bar.
+
+[59:44] Is that mean that's gonna happen? I don't know. If this does well, you know, go out and buy it and then talk to me. Because for those of you that don't know, Dave is also the historian par excellence of the dive bar, which is its own awesome subgenre. Unbelievably complex and very cool stuff to to dig into.
+
+[1:00:07] So uh thanks for coming on. Pick up the book, uh, read it. It's got lots of good recipes you can make that, as Dave says are very well illustrated and made in the old way. So, like showing you how to make these historical drinks in the historical way rather than modern adaptations of them. So go pick it up at uh fine bookstore near you, especially Kits and Arts and Letters.
+
+[1:00:25] Dave, thanks for coming on. Thank you so much, as always. What a pleasure. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you alive from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City News Stand Studios. Joined as usual with John, how are you doing? Doing great, thanks. Great, great.
+
+[0:21] I got Joe Hazen rocking the panels behind me. What's up? Hey, hey, hey. Spo spus bectrum is making our phone lines bad once again. However, if you wish to call in your number, we're we're we're allowing call-ins again, right?
+
+[0:37] Uh yes, we are. All right, call in too at 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507. On the West Coast, we are hammerless today. We have no nostasia, but we do have Miss Here Lajie Molecules.
+
+[0:50] How you doing? Yo, good. Yeah? No? And uh, you know, and in the upper left, our first Canadian of the day.
+
+[0:59] We have uh Quinn. How you doing? I'm good. Yeah, yeah. And then uh John, did I already say hello to you?
+
+[1:09] Yeah. All right. And then uh for our in-house uh guest, another Canadian who's now living in the United States in Philly. Yeah. You know, but Canadian nonetheless.
+
+[1:20] Alex Kemp. Thanks, Dave. Executive chef of my uh John, give me a give me a serious uh French pronunciation of of uh Lou. Lou. Oh, John's a natural.
+
+[1:30] Yeah, yeah, yeah. One more time, one more time. Lou. Yeah, not say on Dive. En Dive.
+
+[1:34] Yeah, this guy's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, but so wait, before we start, Alex, are you so you're Canadian and like that like Quebec, right? Uh yeah, I grew up in in Quebec and then I grew up in Ontario. I moved around a lot in there. But are you actually Quebecois or no?
+
+[1:47] Quebequis, yeah. So can you do the accent? What do you want to hear? On Div? I want to I want to hear uh uh oh, Chef Alain said that the kitchen work was okay, but I have to go out skiing, so I won't be around during lunch hour to take your call.
+
+[2:01] Okay, that's a bit long here. Sure. Yeah, yeah. That's what I used to deal with. Oh, Chef Alain, he uh yeah, he said the keychain was okay and uh Oh yeah, that's the anglophone Quebec.
+
+[2:10] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But my family does speak French. Oh, yeah? Like in the house?
+
+[2:14] Yeah, my grandparents uh had like the French accent. Like, Alex, go get your bicycle out of the driveway. And then my mom was English. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[2:21] So uh, but like, does the French uh does the Quebecois side of your family are they mad to speak English to outsiders? I get it I get it when you're mad to speak to Canadians in English, but what about outsiders? We had no bone to pick in this fight. Yeah, you know what? My my grandfather on my on my father's side was actually one of those classic like separatists who thought that Quebec should be his own country and was like very sticky about the English.
+
+[2:41] It was kind of a tough place in the house. Sounds fun at uh Canada Day. You know, Quebec on, yeah. Yeah, I really like so like but did do the Quebecois even celebrate Canada Day, or like that's a crappy English thing. Yeah, no, I I think they do.
+
+[2:55] There's Saint Jean-Baptiste in in Quebec as well, they celebrate. It's pretty big. All right, all right. And uh I had something else on on French Canada. Well, we'll show you.
+
+[3:04] I'm sure it'll come up naturally. Yeah. It'll flow, it'll flow naturally. It'll flow up it'll flow naturally. Uh all right.
+
+[3:10] So this is the uh part of the show where we discuss uh things that have happened over the past week that we wish to discuss. Okay. Usually food related. Not always. All right, not always.
+
+[3:20] So uh what do you guys got? What do you guys got for me? I went for some phenomenal Thai food out in Queens. Sri Popai and got some cow soy, which was delicious. Some what noodle curry dish from Northern Thailand from Chiang Mai.
+
+[3:33] Yeah. Um Different kind of noodles reminded me a little more of Ramen San Looders, a little more alkaline, a little more like bounce and chew to them. Um is that typical of that part of the thing? They they add like some sort of alkaline. I believe so.
+
+[3:44] With a yellow? Yes. All right. Yellow and bouncy. Yep.
+
+[3:52] And did you enjoy? Very much. So what shape are these noodles? Kind of ramen, like curly. So they bought some ramen.
+
+[4:00] They bought ramen. I don't know, maybe, but it was delicious. All right. But whatever. Either way, that is like also that style of noodle for like when I was in Thailand and that part.
+
+[4:08] That's what I happened to do. What's your least favorite style of noodles? One. And two. Oh God.
+
+[4:15] And two, question. What what noodle are you like? I get it, but like meh. I I don't know. I love all noodles.
+
+[4:25] Don't lie to me, dude. Noodles are great. What's what's your least favorite noodle? How's that possible? I'm about to get a bunch of hate.
+
+[4:32] Go. Okay. Uh I love watching it. Hand pulled noodles, not the best. The texture of them's just not the best.
+
+[4:38] They're not the best noodle. Or they're like this, stretch them out. Because what you have to do to the dough to make it do that doesn't produce, I think, the best noodle. I don't think they're bad. I just I think that everyone goes loony for them because of the crazy technique.
+
+[4:52] Showmanship. If you're gonna stretch a bunch of stuff, do dragon's beard candy. That's delicious. You know what I mean? Or whatever you want to call it, whatever culture you do that does the stretch sugar candy, do that.
+
+[5:01] I'm just saying, I'm not against people who do, but in the same way that I don't like, uh it's not that I don't like it, but uh tempur is not the height of fried foods. You know what I mean? What's the height? What's your height? Oh man.
+
+[5:12] Gotta get him back at his game. Yeah, no, no, no. Yeah, what's up? So that's an excellent question. What is the height of fried food?
+
+[5:20] So we're talking. Are we talking a dish? Are we talking a technique, or are we talking what are we talking here? I think we could do either, but the real question is are we gonna are we gonna separate it into things that are simply fried or things that are fried in a batter? Because I think it's two different problems.
+
+[5:35] Yeah. Right. But in other words, like some sort of, so for instance, like you could dredge your fries, but then you're you're what are you? Means you can't make a french fry. I think French fries are the height of I can really fry.
+
+[5:47] And you know, the french fries and like skin on chicken. Those two things are like if you can do either of those well, I'm like, props. You know what I mean? I agree. Um things that are mostly bad but can be good, like super wet fries.
+
+[6:01] Like I love it when a fried mushroom is good, mostly bad. Yeah. I love it when like uh depends how you fry it. Yeah, yeah. I you know what I you know what I love?
+
+[6:09] I love, and I've almost never had a bad one. Fried okra. I love like deep fried okra, especially whole because it gets gooey on the inside, but the outside's dry. Fried shrimp. Fried shrimp, good, good.
+
+[6:21] Here's my issue. The more I get to taste good shrimp, people don't fry good shrimp anyway. No, that's the point. Yeah, but but like like freshwater shrimp, it's just freshwater shrimp. Fried is still good.
+
+[6:35] I mean, look, it's still good. Don't don't get me wrong. You know what I mean? Yeah, I get that. Uh really good, like, really good like fish filet for like a like a like a good fish and chip style thing.
+
+[6:46] Beer batter. That's a good question. I've had really excellent beer batter when I was in uh Alaska. They did some good beer batter. I appreciate most of the styles of fish fry.
+
+[6:57] I'm not huge bread crumb fresh guy. Well, here's another fry one. We didn't even talk about this. If you're gonna talk soft fry, soft fry, so not hard fry. Schnitzel.
+
+[7:07] Okay, you're gonna get a pan in a pan of shallow fry. Yeah, yeah. Shallow fry, a little bit soft, a little bit yielding, schnitzel. I'll I'll tell you, I think I think the French fry, a classic French fry and a Heinz ketchup combination, to me, is one of the greatest things on earth. Oh, yeah, Heinz.
+
+[7:21] Heinz. It's gotta be Heinz. Heinz. Yeah. It's the best.
+
+[7:23] Yeah. I mean, like, why do they I don't want to go to a gastro pub and have some homemade ketchup on it? Oh no, that's the dumbest idea in the whole world. That's the stupidest thing you can do because you know what that means? You spent energy trying to trying to beat Usain Bolt.
+
+[7:38] Do you know what I mean? The wheel. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It works.
+
+[7:41] It works. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not like, and you could have spent that energy making something else delicious that cr uh Kraft Heinz doesn't make. That needs work. Yeah.
+
+[7:49] Yeah. Yeah. For yeah. What would that be? Oh, what needs work?
+
+[7:53] Like something everyday. Don't like not too niche. What do you think? Well, I think Heinz has got everything on lock. Also yellow mustard.
+
+[8:01] I think like unless you're really good at it, you're not gonna beat a really good hot dog maker. Unless you're really good. You know what I mean? You're not gonna- I'm not saying you can't beat them, but it takes a lot of energy to make the best hot dog in the world. Beef.
+
+[8:13] Just cooking beef. Oh, yeah. Oh, beef hot dog. Oh, yeah. But I mean, even the thing is once you once you had the hot dog spices, you know what it tastes like?
+
+[8:21] It doesn't matter what it is. I remember I'll never forget once. I you know, I did the whole thing. I I I uh I par froze. I, you know, I I I got the duck, I got the fat level exactly right.
+
+[8:30] I parfroze the stuff down, ground it all, emulsified it, boop, boop, boop, in the in you know, in the mixer, stuffed it and all that. I was like, you know what this tastes like? Hot dogs. When you when you're doing something like that, do you have music on? Are you is this an afternoon?
+
+[8:43] What is this? Like it's gonna paint a picture here. Oh, that was a long time ago. So I've that was in my old kitchen, I think. So I solo.
+
+[8:51] Yeah, no, yeah, yeah. You don't do that with other people in the house. No, no, no, no. No, no, no. But but I'm a firm believer, I do this.
+
+[8:58] Is terrible. I do cook in my stocking feet, which is stupid. What is that stocking feet? No, it's like socks on. I don't have shoes on in my own kitchen when I'm cooking.
+
+[9:07] That's all right. But it's not, you know, smart sharing that with us. Yeah, it's not the smartest, in other words. You know what I mean? Like for dropping stuff on stuff like that.
+
+[9:17] But uh You also keep lying in your kitchen too. Keep what? Lie. Not anymore, man. I got in so much trouble with the lie in the kitchen that like you know.
+
+[9:25] Yeah, part of uh part of um, you know, staying married was getting the lie out of the kitchen. So that that means I have to, yeah. That means that I have to now, in order to do anything with you know, heavily alkaline stuff, I have to bake some freaking baking soda and turn it into sodium carbonate first, like a chump. Yeah, you know what I mean? Couldn't even do that.
+
+[9:46] But I'll tell you what. Tell me not to do that. I'll tell you, well, you got a nine-month old. You can't have any highly basic although you know, I'll tell you what. You have a nine-month-old.
+
+[9:54] Nine and a half, yeah. Nine and a half, yeah. It's uh interesting time. Wait till they can walk. Oh, I think we're almost there.
+
+[9:59] Oh god. We're opening another restaurant, and thinking about the timeline as if like she's always gonna be eight months, but now she's starting to move around and things are getting a little bit more difficult. All right, so before we talk about the rest of our week, why don't you describe so uh you and your wife uh Amanda Shulman own two restaurants in Philadelphia? One's a restaurant, one's not a restaurant, whatever. It's a supper club.
+
+[10:19] Restaurant. It's a restaurant. Yeah, it's a restaurant. Yeah, we're gonna. And so you have two of them, right?
+
+[10:22] And basically, I think like the way the vibe I get, even though I haven't been to Philly in a long time, is that kind of you you spend most of your time at one and she spends her time at the other. Exactly, yeah. Okay. And then you also have like a nine and a half, dude. Dude, did one of your parents move to Philadelphia?
+
+[10:35] Like, how's this work? We're just making it work. We're just making it work. And you're opening another restaurant. We're opening a third restaurant, um, Pine Street Grill, set to open probably sometime the next month or two.
+
+[10:43] Um, and they're good, they're all completely different, I think. How close are they physically to each other? All within eight to ten blocks. Oh shit. Yes, and we live in the neighborhood.
+
+[10:50] So the reason we opened the third restaurant is that we wanted a place that, you know, every time you you hear about restaurants, everyone's like, what's the concept? What's the concept? I just want a neighborhood restaurant that you could sit down and just like just a classic American restaurant. Yeah. So here's the, you know, so the thing is I think like uh I've never done it, so I don't know, but let you let me know, you know, give me a call back when it happens.
+
+[11:08] And is it like kind of dogs where you're like, oh, one, okay, I have a dog. Two, it's more work. But like three is like not more work than two. And so it's like because you can use one to feed the other. You can you can like be like, uh, I need a new staff at this, and now you have a big enough staff roster that you can kind of swap people around because it's only 10 blocks.
+
+[11:26] I truly have no idea because we're not open yet, but I imagine that it's gonna be a little bit more difficult. Um, but what's nice now is that my wife's a chef, like you've mentioned, and I'm a chef, so we can kind of worst comes to worst, we can each be at one spot and it's under control. So we're gonna find out here really shortly if uh the third one is tough. Do you guys both have the same closed days? Yes.
+
+[11:43] That's nice, which is nice because fam time. Yeah, yeah. You have to have at least one family. Yeah, one chill day. Yeah, walk around, drink coffee.
+
+[11:49] Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Light light people on fire. Yeah, yeah. That's what we do.
+
+[11:52] Yeah, Philadelphia. I mean, isn't it though? Yeah, you know, Rebecca, uh, the the boondoggler, the palacinator, who used to be, you know, part of the cooking issues uh team, she she works with you. She moved to Philadelphia, and like the first week she moved there, she's like, Oh, yeah, yeah, I almost got stabbed. I'm like, hey, you're living the dream.
+
+[12:10] Yeah, that's Philly. It's part of life. You're living. Yeah. If you don't feel the danger, you're not living.
+
+[12:14] Yeah. Oh, come on. Everyone, but everyone ranks on it. Philly can't be that dangerous. No, I I have never had any bad experiences, to be honest with you.
+
+[12:21] I used to live in, I used to live off the uh the J, the Chauncey J, yeah in New York and Brooklyn. And I I held it. Of all of the dumb name stops, is Chauncey the dumbest? Chauncey. Yeah, that's a good question.
+
+[12:33] And it's actually kind of rough as well. So it's like it sounds lovely. There's a Chauncey Square in uh a Yonkers, and every time I pass it on the road, I'm I I want to get out my monocle that I don't own and be like, no, Chauncey Square. You wouldn't fit in. No, but it's not uh yeah, they they're never as like they don't sound like uh they they sound like a butler, but they're not buttly places.
+
+[12:54] Maybe that's the point. Uh just kind of like a like gouging their eye, a little bit, a little bit of a rubbing it in. Yeah. All right. Giving giving them as we say, the schkut and gorp.
+
+[13:04] Yeah. All right. Fair enough. Uh all right. So back to uh what we've uh done this weekend now that we've gone on a severe.
+
+[13:11] I have to say food-related tanks. Yes, food related tan. And you never said you youasled my way out of it on a noodle that you thought was subpar. How about a sauce for noodles that you think is subpar. I have like just Asian noodles or we talking own noodles.
+
+[13:31] Oh. You could any noodle, dude. Any noodle. Any noodle. I have yet to have like and this might be like the also fit the overly hyped thing too, is uh pasta ale or oleo.
+
+[13:42] I just haven't had a good one. I haven't had a good sauce on it yet. It's just oily pasta. Yeah. You know what I'm gonna second on that one?
+
+[13:50] Rosso pizzas, crap on them. Yeah. Keep it. Yeah, fair. Keep it.
+
+[13:54] Uh you know, give give me a piece of your let me taste your sauce. Give me some of your dough. I'll judge it that way. Now make me a pizza. Yeah.
+
+[14:01] You know what I mean? That's my feeling. I'm welcome to it. Yeah. Uh wait, but you s you said something, wait, you said something else that piqued my interest, something else that I hate, but I forget what it is.
+
+[14:12] So we'll have to let it we'll have to let it slide. I was about to I was about to give you another needle, but I don't know. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, we'll come back to you. Yeah.
+
+[14:20] What about you, Quinn? What do you got? Oh, well, I've I've got a lot of stuff. Uh with a busy few weeks, we found a source of uh heritage apples. You'll be happy to know.
+
+[14:36] Well, at least next year we'll be able to taste uh ashmead kernel. So we found a source. My favorite. For this season. Yeah.
+
+[14:48] So we got it. We got three other uh varieties. What are they? Spit it out. Orange Pippin.
+
+[14:57] A cocks orange pippin', okay. I mean, like I I think of them more like an English apple. How do they grow in Canada? Although you where you live is relatively temperate. So maybe they can grow like more temperate kind of apples like Cox, I think of as like the quintessential English dessert apple, you know.
+
+[15:15] Another goofy name, a cocks orange pippin'. Yeah. Jonah Gold. Yeah. And um last one is uh Gravenstein.
+
+[15:26] Yeah, good. I once did uh I once did a comparative tasting of uh cox orange pippins, all grown in the same field at the same time, different root stocks. Cause you know, hey, look, if you people who know apples, right? Yeah, they're they're all clones, right? So you you you take a cutting, you graft it onto a rootstock.
+
+[15:47] Typically now, either dwarf or semi-dwarf, so you don't have to have giant machines to to get the apples. And uh the taste but on the different root stocks was surprisingly different. Yeah. So it's like the the root stock makes a difference, and obviously where it's grown makes a difference, right? So I've had the same apple grown in different latitudes same year.
+
+[16:07] Like wine. Yeah, a totally different what? It's like wine. Yeah, yeah, exactly. There's a huge so like my my my theory on apples, and you're welcome to it.
+
+[16:15] I'm gonna give it to you anyway, right? Is that uh every named apple has a reason it existed. So it it it fulfilled a function in a place for a person at a particular time. And then the ones that become popular are the ones I think that either they have some quality that allows them to generalize more, right? So like uh most of the ash meads I have are good, although you gotta make sure Queen that they're stored properly because they lose a lot of their acid if they're sweated out.
+
+[16:42] Like you get some weasel that wants to make cider out of them and they sweat them out and they're and they're they lose some of their malloc snap, and they're still good, but you know the versatility as well, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean we'll try we'll try to catch the orchard early this evening next year. Do you get a do you have any good russets up there like uh like rox berries or uh I actually really like like some of the less acid ones like uh Hudson's Golden over here, Hudson's Golden Gem. It's like a kind of a low acid, like real crunchy russet, like it the russety outside like kind of start shading the the texture vibe into uh what what do you call Asian pears now?
+
+[17:18] What's it what are they supposed to be called now? Apple pears. That really yeah, I got into yeah, that was just the other day. Yeah, yeah. I still call them, I think they're still Asian pears.
+
+[17:25] Yeah, yeah. Well, that's bet uh I think I've uh cause I've asked this before and since forgotten because I'm old and stupid, but the old, like, you know, not you know, American English name for them, real not friendly, sand pears. Yeah, it's not this is not doesn't sound delicious at all, does it? No, no, it's like calling an avocado an alligator pear. Yeah.
+
+[17:43] Doesn't make any sense. Doesn't make any sense. No. I don't think it's because it's from Florida because it's not, even though we grow them there. And I don't I think it's just because the skin is kind of like alligator-y.
+
+[17:52] Yeah, like yeah. Yeah. Not pear-like. No. You're doing something wrong.
+
+[17:57] Although I do like Asian pears. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I I got in a huge argument once with Dave Chang. Huge. He tried to convince me that the Asian pear was better than the, you know, what we were calling the standard European pear.
+
+[18:09] And I was like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. No way. You need to you need to hold back. I was like on that one. I was like, maybe.
+
+[18:17] I was like, but I've never, I you know, you go to the st you go to the store and there's like a variety of uh what do you say they're called now? Uh apple pears. Apple pears. There you go. There's a variety of apple pears.
+
+[18:31] No, no one's like, I'm going to get a cox orange apple pear. You know what I'm saying? But the the thing about the pears is like you you can use this argument. It's like, have you know when the pear is so almost overripe? Yeah.
+
+[18:41] And it creeps down your chin. Yeah. You don't get that with Asian pear or the apple pear. The apple pear. Yeah.
+
+[18:45] So like, I mean, that the the to me, and I've had this discussion also on the air many times, pear is the biggest heartache of all fruits. Like all the fruits, in the sense that like you need to order it before it's ready. Yeah. You need to sit there and agent. Yeah, wait.
+
+[19:02] Yeah. And then it's ready for just one second and then it's jam. Yeah, yeah. And so, like, you know, it's like you can do that at home, but like uh, I mean, I'll never do it again at a bar where like, you know, we get like a flat of pears as tall as one or two. But meant quickly as well.
+
+[19:17] Yeah. Yeah. Cause you gotta you gotta wait until that one second when it's right, and then you gotta process the whole flat and then sandbag it and freeze it. Or your toast. You know what I mean?
+
+[19:26] No thanks. You know what I mean? But we're on team pear, right? Oh, still, yeah. Hey, yeah, yeah.
+
+[19:31] I mean, like, listen. Of course. Okay. Apple pears, as you call them, have a pleasant texture. What's the name of that pearliquor we had, Dave, that had the texture on the bottom?
+
+[19:45] A lot of them do. A lot of those O de Vs, paro de Vs, like we were, we were tasting Reest Wiesenbauer or whatever his name is, who he has a vodka now, by the way. Oh. Yeah. Oh.
+
+[19:54] That's made uh, I think like maybe with like the EC people. They came by the bar. Anyways, hey, he's a good uh O de V maker. He grows all his own stuff. He has a farm, he has a tasting room, he has a kitchen, he's got a family.
+
+[20:06] Now that's life. Yeah. You grow like you grow carrots, you grow like eight million pounds of carrots, and then you make like this delicious carrot O de V, and everyone's like, I don't need carrot O de V. And then they taste it and they're like, I did need carrot O de V. Exactly.
+
+[20:22] You know what I mean? Like I feel like you'd look like an Oopalumpa eating oranges all day, though. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what? I have always wished I could eat enough carrots to turn orange.
+
+[20:30] I don't know if it would actually work. I think it's content, I think. John Malkovich. Was that in being John Malkovich? Was it in the case?
+
+[20:37] Yeah, because the guy ate carrots all the time. We turn orange. My mom told me it's real because you can you can like bio stockpile the uh beta carrots. I think the same thing when you do when you do with the mercury thing, whatever it is. Yeah, I wouldn't uh I wouldn't biostockpile uh mercury.
+
+[20:52] That's real dangerous. Or but the the colloidal silver people, yeah, they turn mercury. Sorry, sorry, the collector silver people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They turn blue.
+
+[20:59] Do you know there's a whole I don't know if they're still alive, but there was a uh a a gro a family in Kentucky that was blue because they all had this uh they all had a genetic like uh uh a thing where like their their blood didn't oxygenate to the full amount, and so the entire family was blue. They weren't in Morocco, were they? No, I think they were like, you know, probably of X you know, German extraction before they went to only reason I say is because of that one city that has all the indigo that everyone breathes in. Oh, huh. If they're big Wildcat fans, they could just go to the games and blue.
+
+[21:32] Just go go as blue. Go as blue. There you go. But now, unfortunately, not or not unfortunately, I have the song Blue Moon of Kentucky going through my head, and it's not gonna leave. Okay.
+
+[21:42] It's a good tune, though. Maybe you can sing it at the end. I will not, but okay, but the now, but now I've got the version from Plains, Trains, and Automobiles, which is the greatest Thanksgiving movie of all time. So for those of you that have never seen Plains, Trains and Automobiles with John Candy and Steve Martin, and you enjoy a Thanksgiving movie. Okay, it's you know, good.
+
+[22:00] Anyway. Check it out. Uh uh, what about you? Uh so wait, so Quinn, so what about what about apples? What are you gonna do with these apples?
+
+[22:06] You're saying you found them and you're gonna let me know next year what the hell's going on? Uh I don't know. We we bought the uh bathtub, each of those varieties I told you, and then we processed them. We made a custard and a florvet from each type that we ended up with uh six products and we were able to cross compare. What is process mean?
+
+[22:33] You mean you mean juiced? Or cord and cut and cooked? What does process mean? Yeah, yeah, mostly juice, and then with the sorbet, there's some juice and some like actual cooked uh apple flush. Here is uh I'm gonna make I'm gonna make a pitch for apple butter.
+
+[22:56] Apple butter is delicious. Delicious apple butter, is at a puree thickened with a ton of butter? No, although that also sounds good. No, you'll you just take apples, you cook the you just c you cut them up, you cook them wo down real slow, then you strain it to strain the skins out after you've gotten the skin flavor into the so you you cook it down with the s I do cook it down with the skins so that and it for hours and then uh you strain it and then you can either cook it all the way and strain it or you can like parcook it and then strain it and then you cook it down until it turns into its own jelly. So you're just good big in Pennsylvania.
+
+[23:36] That's where my family like would get it from. Uh and like you can make like really high grade apple butter, especially if you throw a like if you throw a little bit of ascorbic into it, you know, while you're keeping keep it while you're cooking, you can keep some of the varietal notes, even though I mean the point of apple butter is you're cooking it way down. But if you're using high acid varieties, you can get like a real snappy uh apple butter. Because it's mainly made with just like drek. You know what I mean?
+
+[24:02] Like apple wise. It's the same way as like schnitz. Like uh, do you ever go out, you ever hang out with the Pennsylvania Dutch people down there? Never. Okay.
+
+[24:09] Well I'd love to though. One day. Well, so uh the schnitz and I don't know how they pronounce it, but schnitz and gneep, which is the the uh dried apple slices and ham dish of note in the Pennsylvania Dutch area. Like one of the interesting things about drying apples is that the act of drying them reduces their tannic nature. So you can take apples that would be spitters and you can dry them, and then when you cook them again, the tannins have been condensed, so they're not as a stringent.
+
+[24:34] Anyways, um oh, caller, we got a caller. Caller, you're on the air. Hi, everything's um uh long time listener, first time caller, as they say, coming from Dublin, Ireland. Ah. Um my question um is I'm trying to dial in a disc.
+
+[24:53] And um I'm lean lobster generally and uh pretty happy with the results I've been getting. But um I'm wondering about uh thickening and your thoughts on kind of flour or other liaisons or uh even rice, which I know is more classic. And then I was uh about six months ago in Alaska and I heard of a fantastic bisque being made and tried it, which was 48 hours of slow cooking down of king crab shells. And I wonder if there are a way of doing the same with lobster. Uh you actually cooking it them down until they're soft and then blending them into the mix.
+
+[25:30] When I tried with lobster, I got a very chalky result. Um I'm just wondering about your thoughts on uh thickening and maximizing uh lobster flavor or shellfish flavor. Well, I'm gonna well well, I'm gonna send it out to the crowd here, but I know and thank thanks for calling by the way. Uh I w whenever I do lobster shells, back when we used to do this constantly at the French Culinary Institute, we would always like like abruptly end the boil out of the shells before what what we deemed the broth would take on a calcium kind of a note. In hours, isn't it?
+
+[26:07] Yeah, yeah. And so like, you know, and if you go beyond that, so there is I'm sure some magic temperature below which that doesn't happen. But I don't know in other words, without knowing this, like, you know, infinity protocol for crab shells. Yeah, and by the way, never done it with it's not true, I have, but I've never, like, I haven't done it a lot of times with crabs. Um, there might be some magic number and also honestly an acidity level, because remember, the more acid something is, the more all that calcium stuff is going to be soluble in the broth.
+
+[26:43] The more basic it is, the less that calcium stuff is going to be soluble. But I have never even considered doing a long cook on lobster shells. Now, we would do we would do sometimes we would do a butter heat first, extract some of the stuff into the oil because you're not going to get any calcium stuff into oil. But most of most of the time we were kind of in what, you know, quote unquote a hurry. And so we would just boil it with the thing.
+
+[27:08] What do you guys think? I no, I mean, I'm interested in hearing this too. Like I've tried to cooking a lobster shell, I think, for three hours and then blitzing it in at the recommendation of someone else, and I really didn't like the texture and flavor of the phone. Sure, Alex is gonna say you have to use a four shoe lobster anyway. Canadian hard bottom cold lobsters.
+
+[27:24] No, no, well, my thought on one of the what one of the things that I heard there was that maybe using the head and body, you get a a better result than the shells. Maybe there's a different balance of calcium. But when I did it with the shells, uh I was very unhappy with the result blending it in. Yeah, I would never ever do it with the shells. No, I never do the shells.
+
+[27:43] So I I used to use the carcass on the inside, you clean up the gills. Yeah, clean up the gills. Yeah. Um, but I agree with Dave. I I think you go anytime you go over an hour, you're not getting any more yield.
+
+[27:53] You're you're losing product and it's not the flavor's not improving. So if you wanted to improve the flavor, I see what you guys think, but I would just re-fortify it again, right? With the shells and never go past an hour. And the most important thing is the roast at the beginning without catching. Yeah.
+
+[28:06] And all your and all like that's the biggest part for me, anyways. Yeah, and you know what? I'm gonna I'm gonna double up on on what you said, Alex, is it like I think the thing that people don't do enough is multiple stock things. If they really want to get a flavor thing, like multiple, especially on like fast cooking things. I mean, whatever, with your with your beef bone, do whatever you do whatever God tells you to do.
+
+[28:27] But like with things like uh with birds and fish, like I'd much prefer to have like like a double or triple short stock. Yes, you have to you have to fortify it two or three times for big sauces for sure. Yeah. But what about thickening? What do you think about a liaison?
+
+[28:45] I would berminier it. Really? Yeah. Okay. Now let me ask you this.
+
+[28:49] Are you a believer in the what Escolfier used to say, which is that if you do it with Burmani, you can only let it heat through, and then you may not let it cook another so you have to cook it another hour. Remember, he used to say he's a big thing. Yeah, the flour tastes. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that was also in what year was that?
+
+[29:03] Uh 1912, 17, I forget something like that. We're past that. I think we're past that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thankfully, yes.
+
+[29:09] Yeah, we took the information. Well, but Escolfier said in the in the uh in the whatever intro, whatever you want to call it to the geed, that uh, you know, in a hundred years we wouldn't be using flour anyway. He thought we'd be using arrowroot and other things like that. We're still using because of him, jerk. Yeah, you know what I mean?
+
+[29:27] Uh but uh so you're your uh flour and butter. You know what? I never think it's a good thing. So because it's you can adjust it afterwards, you know? Um like drop another nugget in, drop another nugget.
+
+[29:35] Yeah, you get and you can just whisk it and obviously the bone, you do it when all the shells are out and everything's training. I would I would redo I would reduce the the stock itself to the right consist um not so much consistency, the flavor. You can steep tarragon in after you can steep in whatever you want. Do you ever dope seafood stocks of gelatin? No, I've seen that done before, but no, I don't do that.
+
+[29:51] I do I do that. I think it works quite well. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's I think it's a matter of choice. It's like definitely if you're gonna do that, obviously do it after reduction.
+
+[29:59] Yeah, do it. Yeah, yeah, but obviously after if you're gonna dope something with gelatin and do it at there's nothing worse than over reduced gelatin. Yeah, like you see the diner there and their lips are getting glued together and they can't talk anymore. Yeah. But like I'm not a I don't do it, but I'm not against like a little bit of pow little, you know.
+
+[30:20] A little more traditional, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. One other thing to throw into the mix, and I I I hope it doesn't count to the second question. But I I know there's a chef um in Spain at the moment who's using chitinase um to uh what he describes as degrade the the the uh shells of shellfish, um both from a flavor extraction point of view and a texture point of view.
+
+[30:45] Um I doubt that's gonna have any useful impact on the chalky calcium taste. Um but do you think that there's any value in terms of flavor extraction? And do you think there's any way of of telasing calcium or am I really just better off remoisting and remoistening after by stopping at an hour? So the the for those that couldn't hear because the the the sound is a little choppy, the question was uh there's a chef apparently I don't know who it is, I I don't I didn't know this is using chitinase. So the the structural backbone of arthropods, so that's all crustaceans, bugs, whatever, is chitin.
+
+[31:18] It's also the not you know, not uh what we're made out of, not you know, cellulose that plants are made out of or lignin or any that's chitin. Interestingly, also fungus, which by the way, are more closely related to us than they are to plants, right? So and I think I've never used chitinases, but uh so things that can break down chitin. Uh I would be more interested to try them on mushrooms to liquefy mushrooms, because to me, that would be freaking nice. But uh I don't know.
+
+[31:44] I mean, I would think it if anything, breaking the shells down would make them worse. In other words, like my problem isn't necessarily getting the ex like extraction out of the shell. It's just I don't want yeah, all of that stuff that's trapped in the shell to end up in my in my stock. I feel I feel like sorry to cut in here. I feel like the way from listening, picture like a debit card and then like the calcium's like the overdraft.
+
+[32:08] And I feel like you're just like you're tapping it up. Like we need to pull back. Yeah. Yeah. You don't need to boil shells for two hours, you're not gonna get any value out of that, right?
+
+[32:15] Is that fair? I mean, I think so. I mean, uh like I say, the only thing I have circulated longer is I've done butter for longer at a lower temperature. You know what I mean? Uh, you know, making like uh shrimp shrimp shell butter.
+
+[32:28] But you also gotta remember, yeah, like the shrimp shells that we get have no flavor in them. They're like paper almost. Maybe in Ireland. I don't know, yeah. I don't know about I don't I don't know.
+
+[32:38] I last time I was in Ireland, I remarked, oh, they have really good products here. You know what I mean? Like they have good products. We at least could do. Hey, since I have you on the line, let me ask you a question.
+
+[32:46] And I know we have a horrible connection, but spice bag, it's a thing or not a thing. Oh, it's a thing. Yeah, it's uh it's a late night, heavy boozing type thing, but it's a thing. Good thing or not a good thing. No.
+
+[33:00] No su no such thing as a high quality spice bag, but then uh quality is uh quality is a relative thing at that stage of the uh of the evening anyway, isn't it? Yeah, and I um the I last time I was there was I don't know, like eight years ago or something. I did not have a spice bag now. What is a spice bag? What are we talking about?
+
+[33:16] It's like you're m missing out. It's like comic experience. Yeah, it's like I think it's like hacked up pieces of like it's like French fries, and I think hacked up pieces of fried chicken, whatever else they've got, and like spice mix all kind of jumbled up, and you eat it. A lube sauce. And you have a beer.
+
+[33:31] What? I don't know. What do they serve a sauce for spice bag or is it just like a crunchy thing that you eat? Sounds dry. Yeah, curry sauce, vinegar all thrown on top.
+
+[33:39] But basically the kind of the dregs and the the dry of any fry fry fryer setup at the at the end of the night. So you know, 3 a.m., 4 a.m. spice bag, doesn't it? Spice bag. And does it actually come in a bag, which would make it even better?
+
+[33:55] Or is it come in a cone? It it comes in a bag. Nice. A foil, a foil bag, yeah, foil line bag, foil light paper bag. And is Dublin the place to get it?
+
+[34:06] Dublin, yeah. It it's the originator of the spice bag. There you go. Okay, there you go. There you go.
+
+[34:13] So, you know, you know, fly into Dublin. You know, you know what? I've been to Dublin a couple times, never went to the Guinness Brewery either. No, me neither. I hear it's a nice idea.
+
+[34:21] Overrated. Oh, it's nice. Yeah. Hey, let me ask you this. I'm gonna get you in trouble with your friends.
+
+[34:27] Guinness is a beer that I really like to have one of. I I disagree. Yeah, but say a lot of people like to have like four or five of them, but like for me, a Guinness is a well-made product to have one of. But I'm maybe I'm in the I'm and I know I'm in the minority, but w where are you on this? I wouldn't try to get you in trouble with your local friends.
+
+[34:47] There are nicer, richer steps that you can enjoy more of the sipper. So if you're really only going for one, I wouldn't opt for a Guinness. But I think that a Guinness works for two or three. Yeah, I think that's that's that's reasonable. All right, it's like a hop house protein, which is uh, which is a which is uh a more nuanced uh stout.
+
+[35:07] Alright, well and uh works more substantially better. But again, the guinness that you get in in Dublin and in Ireland in general is is better than the guess that you can get anywhere else. Um that's definitely definitely the case. Well, I appreciate it. Hopefully, call in again and we'll get our phone system in order and we won't you won't be chopped up like you were, but uh thanks for calling in and uh hope to speak to you again.
+
+[35:28] Uh so uh Mr. Molecules, how's your connection? Uh I'm here. Yeah, I can't believe that you're well again it's the whole reason I get like especially when they're poured well is like to have multiple. Uh that's why I would have guessed it.
+
+[35:46] Yeah, you're totally right. That but that's what I'm saying. Like, you know, what they say, like, you know, in taste is not to be disputed. I'm not saying it's not a good product. I'm not saying any I'm not casting any aspersions.
+
+[35:55] I'm just saying for my body, I'll have three daiquiries and one Guinness, not three Guinnesses and one daiquiri. Wow, wow. Wow. You know shocking to me. I don't know.
+
+[36:06] You know. Uh no, the other the other thing I had uh I I was trying to say earlier about quickly back to the noodles. Angel hair pasta has to be. That was on my own. Let me say something nice about angel hair pasta.
+
+[36:20] An anchovy sauce, like like a nice, like a light anchovy sauce, Christmas Eve, angel hair pasta, breadcrumbs. Which niche that makes it about hair noodles. It's but that the only thing that it's good with is anchovy sauce. That makes it a bad noodle, I think, right? But but can't you picture that?
+
+[36:40] I mean, I can picture it, yeah. Here's another thing. I also like it sometimes in in not in huge quantities, right? But like if let's say you're gonna do a small dish with a creamy sauce because the noodle itself becomes creamy, and so it almost becomes a gloop. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[36:55] But like but th that's the thing with angel hair. There's a super there's a super super super fine line where like someone makes a sauce too bound and then it sticks together and it sucks. Yeah, cooper brick. Right. Or they make it too soupy, and then what?
+
+[37:08] It's like but like when they get it just right, when when the sauce texture and the angel hair texture is just right, and you don't have like a plate the size of your head, you know what I mean? Like a little plate. I think there's a place for it. Okay. But again, this is my opinion.
+
+[37:23] I'm full circle here. I'll take it. Cause I guess sometimes I enjoy um what's the really like fine one in Chinese American food? Chow fun Chow Mei. Yeah, yeah, the really like thin one.
+
+[37:35] The sauces are usually lighter, right? I feel like my favorite fine noodle like that is the Singapore My Fun, which is like Singapore Chao My Fun, which is like got all that crap hacked up in it, and the noodles are usually shorter because they get all hacked up. Good, dry. I like a dry noodle. Yeah, I like it.
+
+[37:51] I think eatability is important too, right, guys. I feel like you gotta have an eatability. If it's an easy bite, it's nice. But if you got the big gloop with a big chunk, then that makes it unpleasant. I also I also hate having to I also hate having to slurp and flap noodles around and all over the colour.
+
+[38:06] And your socks, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you're gonna, ow, my sock, now I'm boiling water all over my hell with that. You know what I mean? Like, or like when I have to when I have to sit there with a spoon and be like twirling around the spoon.
+
+[38:18] It's like, listen, just give me something I can use, like a like a like a front-end loader, push it in my face. Yeah, yeah. Hey, of the Yeah, you see, there's a lot of some of the newer pastas, the shape is good and they fall apart. I hate that. Well, give me an example.
+
+[38:34] Uh, I can't remember the names of them. But some of the one new ones. I don't even know what it is. Like the dry noodle is. Yeah, dry one.
+
+[38:39] Like when you cook them. Well, to you know, next week, by the way, for those of you who are keeping track, we could uh be talking about this next week because on next week's show we have Joshua McFadden who wrote a book called Six Seasons of Pasta. What? Two weeks. Two weeks is the same as one.
+
+[38:52] One and two are the same. Same order of magnitude. Anyway, six seasons of pasta, a new way with everyone's favorite food. What does it mean to have a new way with pasta? What does that mean?
+
+[39:05] I don't know. Like you don't put it in your mouth anymore? I'll have to ask them. Where do you put it? Strangler.
+
+[39:15] Oh, the Strottopretti is a great word. That's like the best all-time Italian pasta word. It's also great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Up there.
+
+[39:23] Top three. Strangle some priests. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing wrong with that.
+
+[39:26] I mean. Family friendly. Family friendly. I mean, like, it's such a great term. I wish Styles here.
+
+[39:32] She also loves that term. She's uh well, she'll be here for the pasta episode, I hope so. Okay, so listen. We have some uh qu how much time do we have? We have some questions to get to, but let's I want to go over so one of the shticks that you do at uh you guys got anything else over there?
+
+[39:45] In between your cutting in and out of uh your your choppy voice, Bill. Anything on that West Coast? Oh me, no. I I no, I'm good. You're still in shock from the Guinness.
+
+[39:56] I yeah, chopping out a little bit here too. Did you have a uh did you have any uh like uh low quality what was it? Did you have any interesting beers when you were in China? Any fake Guinness? Do they still do that?
+
+[40:11] Actually, yes. I can no, I can tell a really quick story though. I went to this isn't gonna put me in the same category as eating the whale. I I went to a North Korean restaurant, I went to a North Korean restaurant because it's a thing you can do. Um but not in North Korea though, right?
+
+[40:28] No. Yes. Yeah. So so you basically ate all of the food that North Korea produces for that day. You ate it all, and no one in North Korea got to have any of it.
+
+[40:44] Wow. Wow. I mean I really I I really drink beer mostly. I didn't really eat. I was there just to kind of like see that what it looked like.
+
+[40:54] So uh what's what's what's an export? What's an export quality? Yeah, what's export quality North Korean beer like? It was great. And then I kind of asked the journalist friend of mine, like, what's the deal?
+
+[41:05] And they were like, oh, they just bought uh an entire brewery from um like England at some point and just brought it over. So it's not really like, yeah, yeah. That made sense. It was just a really good blogger. Anyway, I had a whole bunch of them, right?
+
+[41:18] Uh it was on my last night in China in Beijing. And then I made the mistake of all the waitresses look like it's like twin peaks or something. Like, you know, it's crazy. Like they're in these kind of 50s outfits and they're being friendly, and she asks where I'm from, and I'm a few beers in, and I'm just like, the US. And she's like, USA?
+
+[41:37] And I was like she ices me the rest of the night and never comes back to the table. What would have been the right answer? I was like, wow. Canada. Maybe maybe Canada, right?
+
+[41:48] Exactly. Ireland, you know, Ireland might have done me fine. But if you had said I am Dennis Robinson manager, you would have been fine. Yeah. Robin's got a good name credibility.
+
+[41:59] Yeah. They loved, you know, that's he he's the he's the like American uh lover of North Korea, right? Still that was back in the that's a long time ago. Yeah. That, you know.
+
+[42:09] All right. So uh how what was the North Korean food like before you got iced out? Uh bad. Wow. All right.
+
+[42:18] All right. Yeah, it was just like it was like you know, they have like a picture of it was like Korean barbecue sort of style, and then they had a picture of like the marinated, um like the you know, like one of the marinated pieces of meat, and it came and it was just really they cook it there. It's just really fried out, bland. Well sad. It made me think that there's really just one meat that they're serving, and that menu was kind of like what do you think the meat was?
+
+[42:43] Yeah, yeah. Dissident. It was it was uh braised dissident. Yeah. Was there a picture of uh uh Kim Jong il in there?
+
+[42:54] Oh yes, yeah, it's one of things. Yeah, yeah. Fully state running. No, I'm a terrible I I am the low quality person for for going there, but I just uh it was a it was a journalist friend of mine and in uh low body. I think it's yeah, you gotta try it.
+
+[43:10] You're not like that, uh remember like a couple of years ago, there was that U.S. service member who was over there and he was about to be court-martialed for doing something, so he tried to take a runner to make it to uh North Korea when he was in South Korea, and then they got him and they're like, We still don't like you. They arrested him. Remember that? Yeah.
+
+[43:27] Good luck. Yeah. Bad news. Bad news. All right.
+
+[43:30] But I appreciate the story. I think I'm gonna go ahead and say that like uh that's more uh that's okay compared to the whale. Just I think the whale's okay too. Alex, I'm gonna ask you this. Someone served you a wo if you if you went to a restaurant, so Jack says that he went to the restaurant and whale was served to him, but he didn't order the whale.
+
+[43:54] Tasting menu or was it what was the situation? No, it's like a kaya, you know. Like I was like an experience. I was assuming I'll I'll have whatever you're serving. Okay, so one of the pieces is whale.
+
+[44:06] I mean, but I would also I would order it, Dave. But hold on. Who who's saying you shouldn't? You're saying you shouldn't eat whale? I'm just saying, I mean, yeah, it shouldn't eat the whale.
+
+[44:14] Shouldn't, shouldn't. What do you say? I wouldn't order it, but I need it if it was. I'm on the I'm in the minority here, maybe, but I believe in eating everything once and trying it out. Yeah.
+
+[44:22] And I'm also Canadian. I think we have a monkey. Take Halloween to pupil up, eat a lot of whale. Monkey? I would eat monkey in a second.
+
+[44:27] Huh. All right. I would push it. I would push it. But if it was done right, I wouldn't go to the North Korean restaurant and order monkey.
+
+[44:34] But I would order it maybe somewhere else. You know? Uh fair enough. Fair enough. All right.
+
+[44:40] All right. I don't know, man. Life's short. Dangerous to eat monkey, too. Eating something too close to yourself.
+
+[44:46] I'd probably do some Googling before I do it. Yeah, yeah. And you know, this is why cannibalism is bad. Not just because you shouldn't eat people, because you shouldn't eat people. It's bad for you.
+
+[44:54] I would I don't think I would eat human, but would No, you try monkey? I would definitely I would eat people over monkey. Well, is it farm raised? Sustainable? People?
+
+[45:04] All people are farmers. No, the uh the monkey. Oh, no, you can't farm raise a monkey. I'm just saying, we don't know. Got a point.
+
+[45:13] Uh geez, Louise. Uh we've gone off. We've gone off in off in the rails, as they say. All right, hold on. Oh, first of all, before I go into your current uh place, so uh when you read your bio, it's just uh it's uh it's a what's what of your visa running out.
+
+[45:28] Yeah, tough tough stuff. That's life, right? But so now that you're an owner, like what is it? How does that work? Married, I'm married.
+
+[45:34] My wife's American. Oh, okay, good. I got a green card. I am I'm here. It's not green though, right?
+
+[45:39] Uh it has a tinge of green to it. A little bit? A little bit, yeah. A little green, a little purple. Yeah.
+
+[45:44] All the colors. So they can't send you back over the over the border anymore? I mean, I think they still can, but I think I'm I'm okay for now. You good? Yeah.
+
+[45:51] Yeah. All right. Uh because like you're reading the vibe, it's like, oh, did this, did this, and boom. Oh, by the way, when were you cooking uh at the uh Pied Ducchant? You know I've never been.
+
+[46:01] Their cookbook when it came out, what is it, like 15 years ago? Yeah, the first one or the sugar shack. The first one that came the cookbook came out. Everyone in the United States was like, what? And then that was before like a lot, like that was like the first of the like like uh gluttonous over the top food.
+
+[46:18] Yeah, yeah. And and the way the cookbook was written and presented, like what era were you there? I was there the f this um the year Bourdin ate at the sugar shack. And I didn't work at the restaurant, I worked at the sugar shack. Oh yeah.
+
+[46:29] Um and he was there. Yeah, I said he can't eat at the restaurant. I was there. It's pretty cool. Cool experience.
+
+[46:32] But it is you hit the nail on the head. It is over the top. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Let me ask you this.
+
+[46:39] Does poutine really need foie gras? No. I I I don't think so. I'm like, goes back to the pasta. I'm a bit of a romantic.
+
+[46:45] I don't think it does. But people, like we spoke about earlier, like to come down or come up and eat it. And it's part of the experience, I think. Yeah. See, I think if I was gonna have foie gras, I think foie gras and french fries sounds good, right?
+
+[46:58] But I would want like I'm sure it was hot prep, right? Yeah, definitely. I really like hot prep. I prefer hot prep to cook. Yeah.
+
+[47:04] Uh it depends. It depends on the season. In the summertime, you know, uh you're getting you're you're getting the melons and foie gas or something like some cold preparation or terrine that's delicious or poach, cold poach. I liked like a good terrine, but just like like the like the meat like the big tranches of of of mikue with cold starch. No, I don't know.
+
+[47:22] Oh, I like that. With the apple butter you were talking about earlier. That'd be great. That'd be good, but give me some starch. Yeah.
+
+[47:26] Give me some starch. Well at the restaurant we do, we do like a little French toast, a paint perdure now with it. Different variations of carrots and stuff, which is good. Right. It needs the it needs it needs starch.
+
+[47:34] In yeah, in the early 2000s, I want to say people were doing like relatively large portions of foie gras and not enough starch. Well, you need it, you need to lap it up, right? Yeah. I and I I'm on team starch for sure. Treat it treat it like it like almost like it's butter.
+
+[47:48] Yeah. Or your or on a protein. I'll eat it on a protein. Like if you have a really beautiful, like classic tonod with a big chunk of foie gras on top, like I think that's really nice. But to eat a whole trunche, or would you call it?
+
+[47:58] I don't know. Whatever. I don't know. All right, chef. Okay.
+
+[48:02] Uh that that to me is like a little intense. It's a lot. It's a lot. Whereas I could eat, I still want starch, but I could eat more of a hot prep, especially if it's got that nice crust on the outside. A little cold outside.
+
+[48:12] You know? You need a little nip on. See, I don't is that true? I guess it is true, even for me. I was gonna say, I don't pay attention to the seasons when I'm eating, but I do.
+
+[48:21] It's a it's a feeling. It's not necessarily the temperature, right? It's just you feel like, oh I'm gonna eat this big piece of four gram. I'm feeling like crap. Yeah.
+
+[48:28] Yeah. So how big, and not that it you I know you weren't there you were doing, but how big is the poutine dish with the foie gras on it, like physically compared to like your head? I mean, everything is bigger there, right? So it's like it's it's hard to say. But she's everything she's over the top.
+
+[48:40] This guy was like, it was like we did a whole poached foie gras and bechamel with truffles. We did uh we did an omelet with calves brains, sweet breads and and uh caramelized onions. It's the whole restaurant itself was there was no thought of like let's bounce it out, you know. And if they did it, if it was light, it would be like it would be like a little bit of lemon juice on the arugula on top of the calves brains on top of the cheese on top of the egg. That's the lightening it up.
+
+[49:03] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. See, the thing is it's like it's so funny because like that seems to me to be like like that kind of like throttles up. Does like seems to me like a super American attitude, but yet it's like hyper Canadian. You know what I mean?
+
+[49:14] Yeah, I think what he was doing at the time was definitely like it was different, right? But it's still kind of if you look back at old French food, it's like a lot of it is it's heavy, right? It's heavy, you know, get brioche, you got beijamels and all this like so. When you go to an old school bistro, do you do the steak fruit or do you do the duck confit? Uh I don't, I don't duck's harder to get right.
+
+[49:35] Right? I feel like people are I'm more opinionated on my duck. So you so if you don't trust them, you get the steak, but if you but if you want to see what they can do, you get the conference. And if it's really sketchy, I'll get the chicken. Wow.
+
+[49:45] The culero tea, always good. Yeah. Right? Safe. I think like I don't see the any reason for like an old school bistro to have any more than those things.
+
+[49:53] You gotta get the mool frit. You gotta get the mool frit. But the thing about mool frit is people always often don't reduce the liquor after it's made it and make a sauce out of the liquor. So it's just this like watery broth. Yeah.
+
+[50:03] It drives me nuts. It's like we do the restaurants, we pull out half of them, and then I put some shocked ones as well, and then we mount the sauce and like you know, add sofrito or pernot or fennel or whatever it is. Oh, pernot, huh? Okay. Go and answer it.
+
+[50:14] Fancy, I'm fancy. Yeah, fancy. But uh wait, you reminding me something when you were talking about the uh Moole Frit. Oh, son of a gun. Oh, I once went talking about the frit, because this is apparently the French fry episode.
+
+[50:27] I don't know, but I went to a bistro once and they sugar lacquered their French fries. What? What does that mean? They they put sugar on them to I guess keep them crunchy, and they were like gum. Like, I was like, you've ruined my steak too, because I got the steak frit that day, and uh my steak is ruined.
+
+[50:46] Well, that's really dumb. But like the thing about French food that everyone thinks it's like this like corner bistro run by like to do French food right, you know, it's all coming full circle here, like with stocks, for example. A lot of people just take the bucket demi and they just make a sauce out of it. But there's a certain art in taking a sauce, an old school sauce that you've a red wine sauce, and getting, you know, we do a chicken bones for for affordability at the restaurant, but to do it right and to make a white stock and then fortify that with more bones and then fortify that with more bones, and then you fortify that with the chicken wings. Like that's an art that no one does anymore, maybe because of cost.
+
+[51:17] But I love French food. I think it's the best. Yeah. So well, this guy likes Belgian food though. Well, I mean, yeah.
+
+[51:23] I grew up in Paris, too. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, 100%. Everyone just puts the gloopy like demi sauce in your eyes. It looks like HP sauce.
+
+[51:30] Yeah. It's trash. Hey. Uh, do you know that A1 sauce is no longer called A1 steak sauce? It's now just A1 sauce again.
+
+[51:37] Ain't no one putting on a steak. Who's gonna put that on a steak? Whereas I've had this conversation with my wife the other day, A1, which is a brown sauce in quotes, but not English, right? Is it English? Uh yeah, all those brown sauces are English, and it was originally English.
+
+[51:49] Uh we make it here now. It's owned by I think by Graftines. Uh but uh, you know, and so like all of those ones are like some sweet things, so usually a ra raisins or and or tamarind, yeah, and or yeah, and or apples, and or because there's a bunch of different brown sauce variants. Anyways, um, yeah. So they, you know, in the 70s when I was a kid, all steak was overcooked.
+
+[52:13] Mm-hmm. You got steak and you they're like hammered. Yeah, would you prefer it overcooked or viciously overcooked? Yeah, yeah. And so then like it needed a steak sauce on it.
+
+[52:21] But when was the last time anyone saw someone put steak sauce on a steak? It's one of those things you don't know you want until you get it. Right? Do you agree with that? I think well, I had this conversation again yesterday, so I'm fresh in my mind.
+
+[52:33] My wife goes, and I think rightly so, even properly cooked. My wife was like, you know what? Steak sauce, not on steak, on pork, on a pork chop. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[52:43] Yeah. Might do that next week. Yeah, there you go. There you go. I'm trying to think of the last thing.
+
+[52:47] A one on the steak. I think it was at a waffle house. I shouldn't be ordering steak up with it. Like are you eating? I'm in a backyard barbecue and someone makes like a bad steak for some you know, like sure.
+
+[52:58] Load it up with A1. That'd be fine. Yeah, but that means you have to bring it in your side pocket because you know your buddy can't cook a steak right. Yeah. Well, exactly, because now now it's an option.
+
+[53:06] You're like, oh, let me try it. If it's an option, I might try it. Oh, here's a here's a a good tip for anyone listening, although I hope, you know, whatever, just fix the first problem. But if you know that you're a bad cooker of steak, get a bottle A1, put it out with it. Loads of condiments, mayonnaise.
+
+[53:21] Yeah, yeah. Heinz. Oh, listen, mayonnaise is the solver of many problems. Uh-huh. Onions.
+
+[53:25] Nope. Oh, okay. Yeah. You mean like a like like cooked down? But not fully, not fully caramelized, right?
+
+[53:32] Like still a little bit crunchy, but a little bit brown. Oh, I I uh I love like j because I you know I have the control freak because whatever. And uh I just love that I can just let onions ride there for like an hour and they never burn. So I can cook my onions way the hell down. Good.
+
+[53:49] And also makes the best grilled cheese, like Gruyere, Gruyere and like the long caramelized onions on like rye for grilled cheese. Well, crap. What about that's good? Yeah, it's a craftier. Yeah, I grew up on craft singles.
+
+[54:01] Yeah, it makes a good grilled cheese. Oh, yeah. It makes a different but also good grilled cheese. I'm not against it. You know who loves craft is uh is uh Heinz is uh America's favorite ketchup.
+
+[54:11] Uh Wiley, Dufrey, my brother in law. He likes crafts eagles. Loves well, he loves American cheese in general. That's the best. Have you had the fancy have you had the fancy American cheese out of the Midwest?
+
+[54:19] I forget the name of the um Cheddar, Wisconsin. Uh some sh it's a collab between some chef and apparently it's real good. Oh with the guy in LA? I don't know, man. I think so.
+
+[54:30] We'll have to look it up. We'll have to get Wiley on. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. American band.
+
+[54:29] All right. Uh so back to the uh menu. What is a whitefish donut? Uh in the whitefish in the donut, is it like a bacalayo? It's not like a brioche style donut.
+
+[54:46] It's if we to be it's more like a fritter. We do um pata shoe mixed with smoke surgeon cured hotspot surgeon. We make little canals so it looks fancy. So you you use sturgeon and call it white fish? Oh, well, it depends on the menu changes so much.
+
+[54:59] What is this one here? Uh no, it's not sturge right now. What's this from Monday? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[55:05] So that's it. Both of both you and the uh you know, at your both restaurants, it seems like heavily market driven. What a pain in the butt. Yeah, it is a pain in the ass. And no one talks about that, but it's a pain in the ass.
+
+[55:15] To actually like you when you say market driven, you mean we just like get sucks. Nightmare. And there's a reason why I print these menus off every day. And it it's tough, but it's it but it's it's special. It's what makes the restaurant special.
+
+[55:34] That's part of the DNA. What's what's the I mean, I only ever go to the tourist market there, like Reading. What's the market that that chefs go to in in Philadelphia? There's well, there's Head House, um, and then there's the Ritten House market. Um, but we use a really cool um uh company called Local Bound, and they it's a co-op with all the different farms in in the area and they bring really nice stuff.
+
+[55:51] So, but how long because uh for those that don't have to do this for a uh like a living, right? I mean, the idea of not necessarily knowing what you're gonna get today, but having to serve guests later that evening is like you know. It's daunting. Stab me. You know what I mean?
+
+[56:05] It's like uh the way that I cook, and and uh and sometimes our accountant doesn't like it, is that I literally go, I just order because everything is so cheesy, but what really what grows together does go together. So if I get like Punterelle, chicories, pears, uh apples, and what else? Broccolini. You can make an chicken, you can make a dish of it all, it's all gonna go together somehow. When did broccolini happen?
+
+[56:26] I know it's happened, but when did it happen? All of a snuck up on me. Like when I was a kid, no such thing, and then all of a sudden it's broccolini. Yeah, it's broccolini. It's like a zampic.
+
+[56:35] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they're like, it's like, hey, and so it's like, you know, it's like uh no, no, don't worry, this one's not bitter. Yeah. You're like, what? Yeah, I don't know.
+
+[56:42] You know what I mean? Yeah, I know what I mean. Because it was nowhere. Yeah. And now it's everywhere.
+
+[56:46] A little bit of anchovy on it. Uh also good marketing. People are like, broccolini. It's cute. Yeah, broccoli.
+
+[56:55] It's cute. No, and I can charge you more. Because like a head of broccoli is like a lot of broccoli. Yeah, but it's hard to prepare as well. Uh well, it's hard to prepare in one shot.
+
+[57:05] Yeah, you blend it, do you roast it? It's like people throw away the damn stocks on broccoli. It's great to puree. You can braise it as well. It's yes.
+
+[57:14] Yeah. Uh what is it? Kalen broccoli? What? Broccoli?
+
+[57:18] Broccolini. I don't know. It's I thought it was just like a thinner, like thinner, thinner version. It's like it's like look of broccoli. Look of broccoli rob, taste of broccoli.
+
+[57:28] Yeah. Uh but the uh remember, like uh, this was mapped 12 years ago. Uh Steingarden and I think Lydia Bastianich and a couple other people were trying to bring back overcooked broccoli. Remember this? No, I don't, but that's no.
+
+[57:44] I mean, is that everyone has their opinion on it? Yeah, I mean, it's its own taste. You know what I mean? But they were they were they were like, you know what you need to do? Put that lid on it, make it turn olive drab, and just keep going.
+
+[57:57] Yeah. You know what I mean? Oh. Oh man, we only got two minutes left. Jeez Louise, hold a sec.
+
+[58:01] Pickled shrimp, you pickle them like ceviche style, or you cook them in. No, we don't cook them picking brine, Sevigi style. Okay, okay, because uh I didn't talk about it, but uh Twitty, who's on with a Southern Cookbook, he pickles cooked shrimp, which I forgot to ask him about because I ran out of time. I like the texture better, raw. Yeah?
+
+[58:15] Okay, here you have uh uh razor clams. I just gotta ask God's clam, right? God's clam. God's clam. All right.
+
+[58:21] Uh Maine Sea urchin as opposed to California. Every single time. Really? Yes, in season, live. I get them live.
+
+[58:26] Yes, have to get them live. No one does, but that's the thing, but like what if we could do the same thing with the West Coast urchins? We need to fly. We need to get a group of us together, fly to the middle of the country, have someone from Santa Barbara, get a bunch, have someone from Maine, meet in the middle, like at the UPS warehouse in Kentucky to bring Kentucky back into it. Yeah, yeah, get the blue guy, come in, you know, with the banjo.
+
+[58:47] It'll be great. If we'll get it, uh, we'll get it done. All right, we got more. Uh blah blah blah blah. Baked clams, baked stuffed?
+
+[58:52] Like hawhogs? No, no, no, no. Uh, I don't know what that means. I I get the clams in and chop them and make up. Yeah, I guess stuffed, yeah.
+
+[58:58] Yeah. But like what size? Uh top necks today. Okay, okay. So it's like served clams, you know.
+
+[59:02] I think that maybe the gateway for people who don't like stuffed clams is having them that size. You have to chop them, probably. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, you know, we used to do it with the ones that are like served clams. I'm getting them this week on the stuff.
+
+[59:11] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh oh, you know what? I can't remember. What is what is uh Sharky Chair's sauce on your hanger steak? Uh well for us it's it's tongue, uh it's corn tongue, bacon, cornichons, pickled marcy seeds, shallots, and a butter wine sauce with mustard as well, black pepper.
+
+[59:27] Hello. Now listen, you'd love it. We don't have we don't have a guest next week, right? So I can get to all of these uh user questions. Were there any ones uh in the next 20 seconds that uh we need Alex's opinion on?
+
+[59:37] Anything? Oh, here's one. We have someone who keeps asking what do they can keep he keeping their house to serve their kid? What do you think? They want to cook, but they have a kid, much like you do.
+
+[59:47] What's something they need to keep around in their house so that they can bang out something nice? iPad. I honestly don't know. Yeah, it's hard, right? It's hard.
+
+[59:57] Yeah, I'm sure you don't cook when you're home because who would want to? My wife loves to, I really yeah. I just no. That's also her shtick. I eat to survive.
+
+[1:00:03] She's eat to survive? Yeah. All right. Nice. Going back to the Ozempic thing.
+
+[1:00:07] All right, all right. Well, uh, Alex, thanks for coming on. Welcome anytime. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues, coming to you alive from the Heart of Manhattan Rock and Fellow Center, New York City News Stance Studios, joined as usual with John. How are you doing? Doing great, thanks. Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels.
+
+[0:22] Hey, hey, hey, hey. And it's a no-tangent, slightly shorter, and New York only broadcast today. So uh strap in, because we're gonna get to uh all these questions that we haven't uh already gotten to. But uh what uh anything uh, you know, we still have to go over the week, the week of weekend review. What do you guys got?
+
+[0:45] A relatively uneventful week. Yeah. Yeah, just yeah. Well, I'll start. Yeah, go for it.
+
+[0:53] So uh the last thing I did of note was uh I remember I did uh like a I don't know, a couple months ago I made a Westphalian pumper nickel and I got I I had to do these huge Pullman pans, so I ended up with like 500 slices almost of like because you have to slice this Westphalian pumper nickel for you don't you don't know, right? It's you take cracked rye, but you know, and if you make flour, you're hosed, you're hosed, right? And you s you uh, you know, according to the rye baker book, which is the one I followed, right? You do a scald, the hot water, so you he he does boiling water and and room temperature grains so that when they it's like almost like doing a mash, the strike temperature gets to in that like uh 65, 70, you know, 65 so Celsius range uh for a little bit so the enzymes get going. The amylase enzymes go break some sugars down, and so sugars that are gonna like make it turn brown, make the pumper nickel turn brown because there's no caramel color in real pumpernickel, and you know, there's no any kind of color.
+
+[1:47] And it's baked at a relatively low temperature, so it's not like browning in the way that a normal bread would brown from that. So anyway, and then after that's called, then you make it into this dough, which is more like cement play-doh, and then you pack it into these, uh into molds and you cook it in a steam oven for 24 hours, right? This was caused all manner of problems in my house because the you know, first generation A Nova steam oven that I had leaks. So 24 hours of running it a at full steam meant that like, you know, my kitchen was a swimming pool, basically, and everyone was like, oven's leaky, what's wrong with you? And they're like, how much longer is it gonna cook?
+
+[2:25] I'm like, 20 hours. And they're like, What? What? Like, yeah, another 20 hours. I'm sorry, I gotta do it.
+
+[2:31] You know what I mean? And then after that, it's a whole nother day letting it sit. And then you have more rye bread than you could possibly eat. You know what I mean? And I could have made a smaller loaf in in, you know, in defense of the recipe.
+
+[2:42] Anyway, so uh I decided, like, hey, listen, if instead of just striking it with hot water and then letting it cool and sit for 16 hours, what if I just hold it using either like uh uh immersion circulator or I use the steam oven again, just hold it at that strike temperature. So I chose 149, you know, Celsius Fahrenheit rather, uh, and which I don't know what that is, 60 something. I don't know, you know, uh with basically 100% hydration with this cracked uh dough. So I used uh I was gonna fit it into two uh pint mason jars. Okay, you'll see why.
+
+[3:15] So I did 360 uh cracked rye, 360 water, and you hold it at that temperature. I stirred it once in the middle just to because it there's no convection, right? So if you really want to get up to temperature in a reasonable amount of time, hold it that way three hours. I figured that's enough for anything to happen. No one when they're mashing beer holds things longer than like at re really an hour, and there's not much attenuation after that.
+
+[3:35] So I figured, and and at that temperature with the crack rye, I was it was soaking through in that time. So I didn't really feel like I was getting any benefit from having it go longer than three hours. So that's you know, 16 minus three is that's 12 hours or whatever. No, 13. That's 13 hours saved right there, right?
+
+[3:51] Then I made the dough, I put in into what I told you, I put in 5.7 of salt, kneaded that in, put in 168 more of cracked rye, kneaded it by hand. Don't attempt to use a machine. Uh, and then packed it, degreased my pint. The reason I use pints is they make a 24 ounce. They used to make a 24 ounce mason jar, but it doesn't fit in my pressure cooker, right?
+
+[4:13] And uh, if you use anything other than uh the pints, wide mouth pints, they they neck in. Wide mouth pints are like you know, slightly conic, so you can get the stuff out. They're a tube. You don't need to like, there's no necking, right? You see what I'm saying?
+
+[4:27] Yeah, yeah. So you pack it in, which is kind of hard because there's a little voids in it, right? Then you lightly screw the lids on so that if it's you know, if air goes can go out, it can get out, but stuff doesn't get in, right? Put it on a trivet in your pressure cooker, cold water. If you put um mason jar into boiling water that's closed, it'll blow the bottoms off of it.
+
+[4:47] It sucks, right? Bring it up to a boil, let it boil first so that you get steam only with the lid on but not sealed, then seal it. Second ring, which is 15 psi, 259 Fahrenheit, hour and 20 minutes. I chose an hour and 20 minutes because I figured the reactions that are happening at uh regular boiling point, if you believe the old you know, saw that it doubles every 10, you know, reactions like that double every 10 degrees Celsius, and it takes X amount of time to get to the middle that I was roughly in the range of 24 hours worth of coloring if I let it go for an hour and 20 minutes. Uh and that's kind of what I do with eggs, right?
+
+[5:24] So things that would, you know, when I'm doing like how mean eggs in the pressure cooker. Anyway, so I did it for an hour and 20, let it come down naturally, please. Open the lid, sealed it tight in the fridge to set the crumb. Because the other thing you have to do is let rye bread doesn't, like the crumb doesn't set right away. So I figured since starches and whatnot retrograde much faster in the fridge than they do on your counter, that I could accelerate that.
+
+[5:46] So I put that in the fridge for a couple of hours and then slice. So I went from 48 plus 16 hours down to, you know, one, basically one shift. You know what I mean? And uh it was really good. Round, you know, so not your normal shape.
+
+[6:03] The one thing that I need to work on, I'm gonna maybe get like a little, I'm gonna put like a little piece of parchment on the inside because getting it out sucks. And I would like to actually work on finding a square container. I have square glass containers that can seal, but the lids, I if it was polypropylene, theoretically I could do it, right? Because polypropylene and silicone won't break down at pressure cooker temperatures. You can retort polypropylene barely.
+
+[6:31] But uh if there's any polyethylene in it, the pressure cooker will melt it out. So like if I could get a sealable, retortable square thing that I could stick in my pressure cooker, I'd probably up the time because the transmission through it would be a little longer. So I'd probably do like an hour and 30 or an hour and 25. But I'd love to try it on a larger format loaf. Do you know of any retortable or glass glass-lidded?
+
+[6:56] Not that I can think of. Glass-lidd, squarish, glass-litted baking McGillas. The other thing is, by the way, get this. So you if you look up canning bread on the internet, the U.S. government is like, you can't can bread.
+
+[7:11] You could get botules. Because the way that they do bread, right, is you bake it and then you screw a lid on. You bake like you're doing normal baked bread. You just bake it in an oven and then screw the lid on afterwards. So it's like making like banana bread and whatnot.
+
+[7:24] And then, and people are like, you can keep it for six months or a year, and the government's like, no, it's not safe because this is true. Spores can survive, and then it's not a high acid environment, and we don't know the water activity. So potentially you could, oh my God, we're getting a lot of people past this. You can get uh you can get botulism, right? So then I did what you know any rational person would do, and I looked up on the CDC.
+
+[7:46] Has there ever been a reported case ever, ever, of someone getting botulism from a bread product? Answer, no. It has never happened. In the history of all recorded medical history, it has not happened as someone has gotten botulism from bread. The closest you can get, I believe in 1983, in the middle of the country somewhere, there was a patty melt botulism outbreak.
+
+[8:08] The culprit, they had improperly canned the sauteed onions. Killed some people, I think. Yeah. Or maybe almost killed people. Okay.
+
+[8:16] Anyway, botulism. Yeah. Onions. I I feel real bad that one of the main botulism outbreaks that's uh in recorded history is with uh what I think is God's burgoloid, the patty melt. The patty melt, the only real question with a patty melt is what cheese do you use?
+
+[8:31] So if you've never had a patty melt, first of all, rye bread. Let's just start that rye bread. If you're like, what kind of bread do you want your patty melt on? I'm like, I don't understand. What are you what what are you talking about?
+
+[8:44] It's not supposed to be an option, yeah. Yeah. How many wheels do you want on your bicycle, sir? Uh, what do you mean? It's a bicycle, it's got two wheels.
+
+[8:49] You know what I mean? It's a patty melts on rye. Period. You know what I mean? And they're like, Do you want onions?
+
+[8:54] I was like, I said patty melt. You know what I mean? So it's like it's gotta have the sauteed onions on it. And then you got the burger in it, right? I think the power move, honestly.
+
+[9:04] The power move is to make the burger and the grilled cheese at the same time, then break the grilled cheese, put the burger into the grilled cheese and close it again so it gets real gooey. That's what I like to do at home when I'm in fast patty melt mode. And if you remember, I did the I did the bread omelet. Yeah, thinking about that the other day for some reason. It was good.
+
+[9:22] It was real good. It was a catchy song, too. Yeah, Dax uh Dax uh still requests that. I gotta I gotta start making those again. Anywho, uh the real question is the cheese.
+
+[9:30] A lot of people use American cheese, but I like a Swiss. Yeah, same. Are you a patty melt person now, Joe? I yes, I do love patty melts. And what cheese do you do?
+
+[9:43] American. See? It's like this is the one this is the one place I think we can have this. But I like tuna melts more. Yeah, I like you know what?
+
+[9:52] I never make tuna melts, but I do like a tuna melt. I like a tuna melt a lot. And didn't we talk about this recently? What are your thoughts on tuna mac and tuna casserole? Not a fan.
+
+[10:02] Yeah, I can do it. I can do it too. Yeah, I can do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can do it hot melt.
+
+[10:06] Not a heavy amount of tuna. Not a heavy amount of tuna. Not a heavy amount of tuna. I like a hot tuna. You know what I like?
+
+[10:11] Like uh you like a tuna melt? You know what the the the one I like the best is when they do that tuna melt mix, but like on an English muffin as a breakfast situation. Thank you. English muffins the the uh the the um it's an amazing piece of um yeah artillery. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[10:26] English muffin, good product. Yeah, good product. Uh almost all of the home English muffin recipes, I believe trace back to an old Alton Brown recipe that contains, unless he got it from somewhere else, that contains uh dried milk powder. So it doesn't use, I don't think it uses milk. I think it uses water, but then uses dried milk powder.
+
+[10:46] And uh I think I might have asked him, he was at Contra, and I don't think he remembered why. But like any recipe I see that contains dry milk powder, including the one that I make that my uh mother-in-law makes, I'm like, I'm pretty sure that goes to Alton Brown, and I don't know why, because Thomas's English muffins does not contain that. Oh right? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[11:05] And I think we can all agree that that if there is an English muffin by which you gauge other English muffins, it is the Thomas Corporation's English muffin with their trademarked nooks and crannies. Yes. Yeah. But uh going back to patty melts for a moment, and I think maybe different from a tuna melt, is that a patty melt is good with ketchup, but there's someone in this studio who doesn't like ketchup. Yeah.
+
+[11:31] No, what do you put on what do you put on your patty melt? If I put anything, it's probably mayo. I don't know. Ketchup is just not ketchup for me is only good on onion rings, and it's good for barbecue sauce and other similar kinds of things, but I don't enjoy it on its own. Okay.
+
+[11:49] Yeah. It's just not used to be onion rings and hot dogs, but with mustard, and now not even with hot dogs anymore. I've I've grown. Why would you put ketchup on a hot dog? What do you think?
+
+[11:59] Because I was a kid. An animal? I was a kid. A freak. I was a kid.
+
+[12:02] I'm talking about my entire history of ketchup painting. Yeah, but but I was a child. I didn't know any better. Okay. But yeah, so I learned, and now ketchup only goes on onion rings for me.
+
+[12:13] Okay. Just yeah, it just I don't know. It's too sweet and too. You know what? I'm gonna I'm gonna call you out.
+
+[12:20] Because here's what here's what happens. He before he's like, I like ketchup when you make it into barbecue sauce. Talking about sweet, you're like taking sugar and adding more sugar to it. Yeah, but I don't know. To me, barbecue sauce is not to sound snooty, but more complex.
+
+[12:29] I don't know. There's just like more going there for me. That's uh oh, this is a weird one. So speaking of sweet condiments, I was thinking when you were talking about barbecue sauce off air about Chutney. I had the weirdest conversation in line at a grocery store, and not like like a high-end grocery store, Letel, right?
+
+[12:54] Which is like the like the for some reason, like part of their shtick is we're gonna make this shopping experience as unpleasant as possible so that you really believe that these prices should be this low because obviously we should pay you for this shopping experience that you're having. I'm in line, and the lady she looks at me, she goes, Hey, whatever happened to Chutney. I was like, wow, that is a great question. I was like, you know, because in the 70s and 80s, like major gray's chutney, there was a bottle of that in everybody's fridge. In, you know, at least in the in the east coast here of the United States.
+
+[13:29] Like everyone I knew had like, you know, you're like, hey, major grace chutney. People weren't like, Major, what are you talking about? Who's got some chutney? You know what I mean? They were like, Oh, yeah, here.
+
+[13:37] Yeah, have the major grace chutney. And it is a good product. Yeah. A non-spicy mango chutney. Yeah.
+
+[13:43] And you're okay with that. Yes. I was actually looking for some of that the other day. I was just making like an Irish curry sauce for family meal. Yeah.
+
+[13:50] And yeah, didn't have any, but one. Interestingly, the brand that of note when I was growing up was Cross and Blackwell. And the Blackwell from Cross and Blackwell, one of that family was Chris Blackwell, founder of Island Records. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[14:04] You know? Uh I mean, think listen, I don't know anything about the guy other than where would we be without like early island record stuff. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[14:14] Anyway. True. Okay. So you fight figure out anything from the week before we go into it? It was just an admin heavy week with very little eating.
+
+[14:23] It was boring. Sounds fun, man. Yeah, it was not. But yeah. Loving it.
+
+[14:27] Yeah. Let's get just cruising on with these questions for everyone. No tangent Tuesday. All right. Uh, did you put on the Discord by the way?
+
+[14:33] Wizmard wrote in like weeks ago about the uh Doc Dish and wants to know if anyone knows of any West Coast equivalent. Is that out on the Discord yet? I don't remember seeing it, but I think there's somebody on the West Coast with the Instagram handle C Stephanie Fish. S E A, and I believe she is kind of connected to that world. I don't know if there's anything exactly like it though out there.
+
+[14:55] All right. I mean, I mean, I wouldn't know. Because the whole point is they wouldn't ship over here. Yeah. No.
+
+[15:00] I know I know there is in like but I don't think they're very local. Like I know that up in uh Alaska in June, there was a c uh there were a couple of people who were trying to do this who were trying to, you know, agglomerate like local catches and sell to local restaurants, which you know makes a lot of sense. But uh anyway. Yeah, at C Stephanie Fish. I'm gonna put it in the Discord.
+
+[15:23] In Alaska. I still thinking about fishing in Alaska, the ridiculous size of those halibits. Because I just never thought about how big a halibut could be. I know it's not, I know it's not our halibut, it's not our Atlantic halibut, which I think can also get big ears. Pretty big, yeah, but not like 400 pounds.
+
+[15:38] Yeah. Can you imagine a 400 pound flatfish? Landing that, reeling it in. In what world is that still a flatfish? Right.
+
+[15:47] When it weighs 400 pounds. Halibut's considered a flatfish? Yeah, yeah. Flatfish. Really?
+
+[15:52] Yeah, yeah. It's I I I believe, and I don't know this, so I'm just saying it. It could be fake, right? But I believe that the flatfish are born with eyes on two sides of their heads, like a regular fish, and that it migrates over. Is that true or false?
+
+[15:59] I have no idea. I mean, I could have just made that up. That could be. If you ever the older I get, sometimes things happen in dreams, and I wake up and I think that this is something that I have actually verified, and it's not real. So someone check to see whether that's real, but I believe that's real, in which case it's one of the crazier biological things.
+
+[16:22] Oh, speaking of which Yes, flatfish are born with eyes on both sides of their head, like most fish, but one eye migrates to the other side as they mature, resulting in both eyes on being on the same side. Crazy. Can we do that with people? Like when they're born, just like slowly try to migrate one eye over, you imagine? True or false.
+
+[16:39] The a child of the Kodak family changed their name to Trout Fishing in America. After the band? The book. Oh. I'm gonna have to go true, otherwise, why would you mention it?
+
+[16:52] I'm not sure. I can't remember why, but I I thought I read something about it. I was very intrigued. I I don't know the book. I mean, I've heard of the band.
+
+[17:00] But yeah, interesting. All right. Uh oh, speaking of uh fish, you know the uh how do you pronounce it? Axolotl? Axolotl?
+
+[17:08] Is that how you pronounce it? The the critically endangered uh lamphibian? Yeah, well, it's an it's a salamander, but it doesn't ever go on land, so it stays uh aquatic and it keeps its little little tree like external gills for its entire life, but it gets to be like 10 inches long or 12 inches long, so of course, and it it's only indigenous to like the lakes around Mexico City. So obviously Mexico City has gotten huge, and like those lakes have, you know, been, you know, uh the habitat's been encroached on, so now there's only like, you know, very few, it's critically endangered. But it's a good aquarium species.
+
+[17:47] So and it's a good model species to test for this neonatism, right? So that there's a lot of them in the world, just not, you know, wild. Anywho, so there's a restaurant in Japan that like 10 years ago in Yokohama, so they had deep fried axolotl. I was like, I looked it up, I was like, 'cause it turns out that back in the day, it's used to be like a a, you know, a luxury cuisine in Aztec times. You know what I mean?
+
+[18:18] Back when they were still a dime a dozen, then wild axolotl. And uh, you know, and they're like, I think they have ceremonial significance, like anyway. So, yeah. So I looked up axolotl taste and they're boom, deep-fried axolotl. I'm like, kind of want.
+
+[18:34] If Jack was on the show today, yeah, I was just thinking about him too. I'd be like, I'd be like, yo, Jack, would you go for the deep-fried axolotl? He's like, oh, hell yeah. Hell yeah. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[18:43] With a with a side of monkey. Yeah. Hey, Wenrik writes in, uh, I think we might have covered this a little bit, but I'll do it fast. I have some peak season strawberries that uh uh friend freeze dried for me. That's nice.
+
+[18:57] Very. I want it, you know, my only freeze dryer I ever had was that one that was really hard to use. Yeah, yeah. Uh I've never tried the new ones. Anyway, I would like to make some ice cream with them, but resources out there are limited.
+
+[19:08] Uh Stella Parks has a no-churn freeze-dry blueberry ice cream, but you know, and not so happy about it. But look the no tr any no churn ice cream is gonna be exactly somewhat problematic. I think the closest you can the best no churns that I've actually done are kind of pre aerated. So like you make like a stabilized uh stabilized ice cream base and then you put it through an EC, you know what I mean? Uh, and then you f try to freeze that as fast as possible, but still not as good as ice cream.
+
+[19:36] Yeah. You know what I mean? There's a reason why that's not the way anyone makes it who is gonna sell it to you for money. You know what I mean? Like uh anywho, uh, you know, McGee tried, Harold McGee tried to get to a situation where uh one of his things was we're we get so hyped up on particular textures that we can't appreciate alternative textures.
+
+[19:57] And so he was like, you know, there's ice cream as we know it, you know, but then there's this French ice cream, which I think is called like pins and needles in in France or something, where you freeze it very slowly and it's meant to be crunchy, right? Also, like Kool Fees like things like this that are meant to be crunchy, right? And also uh celept on Dharma, which is that stretchy ice cream, right? And so he presented these things, and no one could wrap their head around. They're like, nope, don't like ice cream creamy.
+
+[20:24] Yeah, it's got the word cream in it. Ice cream, not ice crunch. You know what I mean? So like he couldn't convince any of the students that we had on the crunchy one. The stretchy one, yes, the crunchy one.
+
+[20:34] No, anyway. I mean, I would say if you can't make good ice cream like this, maybe it's not the right application for the freeze-ried strawberries. Well, but uh that's just the no-churn aspect. Yeah, but here's how you do it. What I looked up, and you could know this because you know how many strawberries you handed to your buddy and how many they handed back to you.
+
+[20:50] It's about a 10 to one ratio according to AI on the internet. And so uh, you know, I would just use that as a as a gauge. So you're looking at a 10 to 1 ratio. Uh anytime we did stuff like this, you would rehydrate in, so I would probably rehydrate in the milk so that you could use a blender. Um, just knowing that the amount of strawberry you add is, you know, 10 to 1.
+
+[21:11] And then I would strain out most of the solids, some of the pectinum will get solubilized. That's fine, that'll just increase the texture a little bit. Um, but I wouldn't leave all of the CD seeds in anyway. Uh that's what I would do, right? Yep.
+
+[21:24] Yeah. Okay. Um Davis wants to know our perspective on cocktail and beer pairings on a prefix menu. Uh I've had the bandwidth, uh, I finally have the bandwidth to do more than just uh table wine at my supper club and would like to incorporate cocktails, but for some reason, I feel like people are often pickier with their cocktail preferences than food. My gut tells me not to include any high ABV drinks, knee drinks, or wet martinis, which are all things I like.
+
+[21:47] What has your experience been like? Um also thoughts on portion size and service. So uh I'm gonna hit the last part and then we'll toss it off to each other. Uh one of the interesting things about pairing menus, if you're gonna pair menus, if you're gonna let people order a drink, right? Then that drink has to be something that a whole glass of tastes good, right?
+
+[22:10] So even think about with food, with a with a pairing menu or with a prefix menu, right? And typically you're serving a small amount of like a number of dishes, right? So you you think about the foie gras problem, right? Aside from we were talking last week about Pied de Cuchon with a giant thing of foie gras. Aside from that, most of us who like foie gras, we love a small amount of foie gras.
+
+[22:34] But a large amount of foie gras is a punishment. You know what I mean? It's just a punishment. So and the same is true with many cocktails, right? So like a daiquiri that is a full glass is a delicious experience.
+
+[22:48] A gin and tonic, a full glass of wine is delicious. But your like a million different flavors, highly spiced beef cocktail is delicious for a sip, but not delicious as a five and a half ounce drink, right? But I think the interesting thing about a tasting menu is that you can give someone a s very small amount of a drink that is very, very good. And it doesn't need to be the drink that they would plow into, you know, 50 of or even want five and a half ounces of. But that one sip can be transcendent.
+
+[23:27] So I've I fundamentally think that making cocktails and drinks that are that are going to be like served without someone ordering them, right? In other words, like they'll order a p a flight, but they're not going to order that particular drink. You can do really interesting things that I think are inappropriate to do in a full-size cocktail. Does that make sense? Yeah.
+
+[23:48] Yeah. Uh and I see this time and time again. So and you want to keep those pairings small. You want to look at your pairings and you want, you know, uh, because you can always the trick is with a pairing, right? Is that if you get someone, there's no such thing as one.
+
+[24:02] It's even harder, I think, to pace people's drinking habits than it is to pace their food habits, right? Um, so I think you should just be willing to, you know, go a little more than the lightest drinkers would want and be willing to refill somebody's uh thing a little bit. If you're if they're paying for a flight, you know, be willing to top them up a little bit. You don't want people to get bent. Yeah.
+
+[24:23] Um, but in terms of uh, you know, I'm actually not good at like this theory because I like wine with I'm I'm a wine with dinner guy. Uh, but I realize that like anyone younger than about 40, like cocktails with food is much bigger now than it was 15, 10, 15 years ago, you know, even. Um, but I think a lot of people like high ABV uh drinks, maybe not huge ones, with certain dishes like steaks. You know, martinis with steaks, people like a martini with a steak. Um, what do you think?
+
+[24:56] Yeah, I agree. I think the what you're worried about, you know, with like this high ABV cocktails isn't necessarily a problem as long as it's paired with the right course and at the right time of the meal. Um I got a one old fashioned right in the middle of my meal. I don't really want that ever. But but you know, the same thing in there.
+
+[25:15] No, no, I mean it's it's not my thing. Um I see bitter, yeah. Bitter. Yeah, dude, I I we've been over this. It's yeah, just one of those things.
+
+[25:24] It's terrible. Terrible. I'm sorry. Andrew uh writes in uh hopefully this already hasn't been asked about. I remember Dave somewhat recently, uh well, it was recently, not anymore, found out that powdered lactic acid uh is not entirely lactic acid.
+
+[25:39] It's not. It's like uh the stuff I have is only like 55% pure the last time I checked. Most of us in the brewing community use liquid lactic acid, typically an 88% solution. That's what I use now. I'm sure I could spend some time trying to reverse engineer the math, but could I give a quicker, more accurate answer?
+
+[25:52] Yeah, sure. So you just divide however many grams of lactic acid you want by 0.88. So one gram of lactic acid uh pure is 1.14 grams of 88% lactic acid solution. So to make champagne acid, which would norm which would is you hope three grams of lactic acid, three grams of uh tartaric acid and 94 grams of water, instead of that you do 3.4 grams of the 88% lactic acid solution, three grams of tartaric acid crystals, and 93.6 grams of water. Done.
+
+[26:22] Oh, fast one. Boom. Um Ruben, uh, I have a question. Is there a technique to make an espresso tonic to avoid an explosion due to nucleation? No.
+
+[26:35] First of all, the explosion is kind of the point. People want like that like foamy Guinness thing. And secondly, it's it's it's uh I'm gonna say this. Could you make something that tastes kind of like an espresso tonic that didn't nucleate? Yes.
+
+[26:50] Would it be espresso? No. Because espresso is an like it, it is an emulsion, it contains nucleating agents. So anything that you would do would make it there for a an espresso tonic alloid, a an espresso tonic similar beverage, but it wouldn't be espresso tonic. So uh Mike Capaferi has a brand of uh kind of uh stabilized espresso liquid that he uses that's not a cold brew concentrate, it's a hot and uh because cold brew doesn't foam that much, right?
+
+[27:20] But does not taste like espresso, okay? To me. So uh, but I'll ask him for the brand. I don't think they were distributing in new in uh in this area, but uh I don't know where you live, Ruben, so I can't I don't know. Maybe you can get it.
+
+[27:32] If you're in LA, let us know and I'll get that uh I'll get that uh spec for you. Um it's not Manhattan Special? No, but Manhattan Special is an interesting uh coffee soda, uh old school, very old school, like I think like 1880s it came out or something like that. And by the way, not from Manhattan, from Manhattan Avenue in Brooklyn. Yeah, it's a Brooklyn soda.
+
+[27:54] It's crazy, right? Anyway. Uh can you imagine? You're like you're like so close to like the island of Manhattan, you're on Manhattan Avenue, you have this soda. Oh what am I gonna call it?
+
+[28:04] Manhattan Special. Do you know who drinks that? The the like uh you know DiPalos? Mm-hmm. Right?
+
+[28:11] The like one of the matriarchs, they s they if you want Manhattan Special, you don't know where to get it, you're in Manhattan, the real Manhattan. Go to DiPalos. Dipolo's always has a couple of bottles of Manhattan special around because one of the owners, that's her soda. Same at uh Faikos, the butcher on uh Bleaker Street. Yeah.
+
+[28:31] Yeah, yeah. So one of them drinks it and loves it and has it on stock all the time. There you go. See, we're here for you, people. Exactly.
+
+[28:38] We're here for you. Uh Thomas T writes in uh hey Dave and crew, I've acquired a set of five ply pots and pans from the so-called cook. Mmm, cook, I don't know that line. Uh by Movie, say Movio. Moviel.
+
+[28:53] In the hopes that it would improve my home cooking experience, but mostly it makes me worry that I'm gonna destroy the pans when I use them on my induction stove. Is it true that I must never go higher than seven out of nine, even when making pasta? I'd love to understand how induction interacts with this type of pan. Well, Thomas, nah, nah, it's gorps. Yeah.
+
+[29:10] Here's the deal. Um, I mean, no, no. No. It's the the the the deal with five five ply pans is this, right? So people are like, why would you want a five-ply pan?
+
+[29:25] Because the the original three original, original original, right? You have an inductive layer on the bottom, right? Inductive stainless, that's actually making the heat. Then a layer of aluminum. That layer of aluminum is what is what provides the very fast, very fast heat transfer because aluminum's a great conductor through the pan, right?
+
+[29:45] And then uh uh a stainless layer, the non-magnetic in stainless layer on the top, that's the food contact surface. That's easy to clean, easy to scrubs. That's traditional. Why add more plies? Well, if you add more plies in between, they're actually heat breaks, right?
+
+[30:00] So the idea is is that in the aluminum sections of it, you get very rapid heat transfer, but the thin heat breaks make that spread out. So instead of having, if you take a if you take just a straight aluminum pan, uh with like an induction three-ply and you put it on an induction heater and you and you Yeah, you can use black spray paint or just a thing of flour. I've used black spray paint. If you don't want to put black split paint on your on your pan, if you get a candle or uh uh an oil lamp and you and you tune it so that it's making a really sooty flame, you can coat the inside of a pan with soot that wipes off very easily that's kind of food grade-ish, so you don't have to worry about putting spray paint on it. Then you can take a picture of it with your IR cameras or your IR guns, right?
+
+[30:42] You can't otherwise look at the temperature with an IR gun because it it it's shiny. You're gonna when you when you put an IR gun into uh a pan that is dry, uh what you're seeing is the temperature of your ceiling, right? Because you're you're basically shooting it into a temperature mirror. So yeah, you can't do that. So anyway, so uh if you do that, you'll notice you can see a very, very pronounced hot spot where the uh heat is going up because the heat goes up much faster than it can go out, even though the aluminum is a relatively awesome conductor.
+
+[31:14] So the the multiply is supposed to do that. Now the problem is is they're worried if you crank it that you can warp it because you're going to overheat one of the layers before it can translate through. I just don't think that's I just don't think so. Yeah. Especially not with your home induction unit.
+
+[31:28] Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'll tell you what. Back at the museum, remember in Chow, we used to have an induction burner that was for walks, and it was five kilowatts.
+
+[31:39] Now, for reference, like any home induction, I mean, I don't know what you have, but most home inductions are more like 1700 watts in that range. Five kilowatts is a lot more than 15, 1700. So that wok, you would turn it on, it would cherry out. It would be like it would go right to the Curie point. So induction, the way induction works on a for a stove, it can't go above what's called the curie point.
+
+[32:04] So you're never gonna melt your pan. You'll ruin them, but you're never gonna melt them, right? Where this this these walks would just go we're like, oh my God. That was wild. So that one, I wouldn't put my I wouldn't put my five by Moviel Wok into the five kilowatt walk burner and go go to town, but I wouldn't worry about it too much.
+
+[32:26] And I think even a professional induction would probably be fine. And can I tell you this, Thomas? Don't spend your life worrying about your pan. If your pan dies because you cook the way you want, that pan was not meant to be. Truth.
+
+[32:40] Uh Owen K, uh heading into the winter season, I'd love to have a sparkling non alk uh available for visitors who are driving and thought of mm the myrrh notes in the bar uh Contra Cesandra cocktail. Have I given the Cesandra out? No, I don't think so. I forgot to look it up. I'll give it out.
+
+[32:56] I'll give it out. Put that on the list. I'll just I'll I'll shout it out. It's a the problem with all of these drinks is that uh the non alk drinks is that the Schazandra myrrh is one of the notes. The the actual myrrh resin, we get like the medium to small size pieces of myrrh resin, not the powder.
+
+[33:12] And it is myrrh, like the stuff that whichever the wise people gave it to the baby Jesus. And I have to say, myrrh, so frankincense, like Churchy, right? Yeah, myrrh death. Like myrrh is foreshadowing that Jesus is gonna get like crucified, right? Got it.
+
+[33:30] Gold is gold. That's self-explanatory. Whichever one of those three fools got to bring gold. He's like, I already got gold fools. What are you gonna bring?
+
+[33:37] And I was like, oh crap. Like I was like frankincense. Oh god, what do you I don't know if with myrrh? Yeah. Anyway, but myrrh is good.
+
+[33:43] So uh we do what's called a 3200. So all of our infusions, unless they're weak, right? So some of them are too weak, are 3200. And I'm pretty sure the myrrh is a 3200. So what you do is is, and the reason I chose 3200 is I use 200 milliliter mason jars, right?
+
+[33:59] Uh to do my tests. I scale it up or down. Anything smaller than 200 milliliters, and you're not really gonna get a good uh, you're not gonna get a good gauge on it because it cools down really quickly, and you don't really have enough to experiment. So you put three grams, that's the three and three two hundred, into the mason jar. Then and the other reason I do this 200 is that I can just top it up to the fill line, not all the way to the rim, but to the fill line, and I know that's 200 mils.
+
+[34:22] So it's very hard to measure boiling water. You know what I mean? So you just pour it out of the pan into the sink, then you close the mason jar with your lid, you know, with gloves and pop up, turn it around, keep until it cools, let it sit for a couple of hours, just let it ride, then strain it. That's the infusion we use. Okay.
+
+[34:38] But this one has a bunch of other stuff in it. It's got grapefruit olio, its main base is Czandra berries, which is omega, which is five spice, which isn't isn't really five to me. Not five spice like five spice powder, but five flavor berries. Uh, but I'll give the whole spec. But there's like there's like four or five infusions in that.
+
+[34:55] So it's not necessarily the easiest to reproduce. And the Schezandra, you have to buy high grade Cizandra. If you don't buy, most of the myrrh, I think, is relatively equivalent, but if you buy low-grade Cezandra, it's just terrible. No good. High grade Cezandra.
+
+[35:08] Get it from a Korean, a Korean store. The best stuff that we've gotten is is Korean. But I'll give you the full spec uh later, Owen. All right. All right.
+
+[35:14] So let me see. From ALD, long time caller, long time caller, first time listener. This winter I'm looking at hot cocktails, not the poker and torch drinks that are covered in the book, but drinks just heated to high temperatures, ideally very high and served from a batch, uh, milk warmers, bottles with circulator, etc. Do folks have been best practices on A V A B V flavor perception and or temps above which the boo gets a booze gets a bad nose. Uh yeah, you want to go lower.
+
+[35:43] Uh you know what? Shoot. I I uh ALD, I'm gonna have to put this on the list to talk about again because I actually did measure the hot poker drinks, how much is burnt off, but I don't have it in my head. I just have the numbers on a spreadsheet somewhere. Um but yes, the first thing is that you're gonna have to lower it.
+
+[36:00] Think like, you know, think about like mold wine. You add you have mold wine and then you you boil that and you add some liquor back to it, but also think wide cups. The most important thing you can do is just serve them in very, very wide cups. And all you need to do to test that is just make the same drink, serve one in a tea saucer, and serve the other one in any standard glass. And bringing the hot alcoholic drink up to your nose is just unpleasant.
+
+[36:24] It's like when you uh, well, no one's gonna have this experience, no one's gonna know what I'm talking about. But if you go to Saratoga Springs, if you go to Saratoga Springs State Park, Spa State Park, they have a uh at a place called uh what is it called? Hayeswell, they have a uh a CO2 snifter, which is a thing you just stick up your nose to and can get a f a whiff of straight CO2 coming out of the earth. It's unpleasant the way that's unpleasant. But again, that's a reference for three people.
+
+[36:49] Three people. Uh Sherry says, I've got 17 pounds of fresh Yuzu off my tree. Planning to distribute some to local Discord peeps. But would love more ideas on preserving, especially low effort things. I'm hoping to make some ice cream, but my time is limited for the next month.
+
+[37:03] In the past, I've made cordial, good one. Uh Yuzucello, good one. Headspace infused liquor, never done it but heard about it. Oleosacrum and Yuzu Kosho. Okay.
+
+[37:12] So um hmm. What haven't you covered here? How about preserved peels? Yuzu peels, like candied peels. Marmalade.
+
+[37:20] Oh, marmalade. Yeah. Marmalade. You know what? My uh my niece, Ellery, uh, she made Linzer torts for me because I love Linzer tort.
+
+[37:30] Who doesn't? Yeah. Not really a tort, but so delicious. Almond cookies with raspberry jelly in it. But and she made the raspberry jelly, kudos.
+
+[37:38] And the cookies. But uh she also made a marmalade-based one. I'll tell you this. Marmalade Linzer tort, good. Pro.
+
+[37:47] Yeah. I like the bitterness of marmalade. Yeah. And that it works. I'm a fan.
+
+[37:51] Uh Morgan writes, so I'll think more, Sherry. Think more. Uh Discord, you gotta help people out, man. Uh many cocktail recipes I find in books don't specify brands for liquors in the same way that Amari's or bitters are usually called out uh with specifics, even though the liquor itself is obviously a huge impact on the drink. Uh furthermore, I found that I personally prefer any cocktail that uses Kampari to be made with a local Kampari mimic in the place of Kampari.
+
+[38:12] Uh I don't know about that, Morgan. Uh as a philosophical question, when do you consider a variation to be no longer the same cocktail, instead take on a whole new identity? For example, a Negroni with Kampari uh versus a compari mimic and a groni with compari using a different base. Uh also are there any widely called for ingredients that you don't care for that you think there's a better alternative? Many, but I'm none that I'm willing to insult in case I work with them someday.
+
+[38:33] Uh but uh I look I everyone now just calls everything a Negroni or a martini or a Manhattan, you know, and uh I I used to hate it so much, and now I just it's it's just as you get older, it's just so hard to care. You know what I mean? About that. I have so many other things I need to care about. But uh mainly um in recipes, those things aren't called out just because you don't want to be loyal to a particular brand.
+
+[39:00] For tomorrow or Amari, it's a specific taste, but in general, you call out just what style of whiskey or what style of rum you want because you want to be slightly more inclusive. The opposite of that was Garrett Richard in Tropical Standard wrote exactly what he used at all times because he thought it was integral and then said, use whatever you want, this is what I use, which I think is a nice I like that approach, yeah. But then when you go and let's say you're going 10 years later, you look at a book, the juice is changed. And you can't go back into everyone's book and say, you know what, that doesn't taste the way it used to. Zuka doesn't taste the way it used to.
+
+[39:33] So you have to like take it's it's hard, it's a problem. It depends on how long you want the transit, you know, the uh the staying time of the recipe. Uh uh let me see here. Non-domesti. I've been making Neapolitan style pizza using Caputo Double Zero, and I've been happy with the results.
+
+[39:46] Was wondering if there are any flowers you might suggest throwing in for more pronounced and unique flavor profile, not the type of thing I start milling my own for. I think it's real tough. Anytime you change the flour, you have to change all of the techniques, everything. Uh I'm gonna ask Wiley. I think Wiley is mainly, I forget what he's using.
+
+[40:01] He might be mainly a Galahad situation, like, but that's not like what you're looking for. Most people with pizzas, they're doing like 10%, 12% of a different flavorful flour in. I just don't have a lot of experience with it. Um Rock Baker, there's a pet peeve question. Do you have another pet peeve?
+
+[40:17] Rockbaker hate of the timers, but we'll wait till we'll have it. The next time we have a chef on, we're just gonna ask every chef for their pet piece. Make sure there's a note that any time we have chefs on, we ask, or like, you know, turning the sink all the way off after you wash your hands, a little drip. This is true. This is why you should have foot pedals at all times.
+
+[40:31] All times. Foot pedals. Uh all right. Do can we do uh one more real quick? One more.
+
+[40:37] All right. Uh Ray. I'm working on making a forced carb latte that incorporates some fun things like doing milk punch with a coffee kombucha uh as the acid to cursa uh curdle it. First go around came very tasting good, but forgot that Way impacts the CO2 bubbles. I was looking into other uh milk sodas and have no idea how they make that stuff.
+
+[40:55] Well, there's a book, uh not a book, a uh uh article called Carbonated Dairy Beverages. Uh new new bold uh et al. 2018 that has like uh you know a list of what the current carbonated beverages are. And it looks like the answer is they're just very, very lightly carbonated, like 15 psi, like low carbonation. Also, many of them are acidified already.
+
+[41:15] So like yogurt bases and things like this. If you use an acidified milk base, it's easier because the higher the carbonation is, you don't just have foaming, you have milk breaking problems. And curdle milk is nasty. Um I need some help on Discord for non-alcoholic rums because I don't have any. I don't use a non-alcoholic rum.
+
+[41:35] So if anyone has a good hogo rum uh solution for desert platypus, we'll get to them uh next week. Uh as well as Maddie with their pasta problems and uh helping. We need help from the Discord for people who want to tell their friends how to get better. Not get better as a cook, but just expand their horizons. Yeah.
+
+[41:57] Books, websites, whatever. Get your questions in for Joshua McFadden. Yeah, next week. Next week, I believe so. Yeah.
+
+[42:02] Cook is it next week on a Tuesday or next week or Monday? Tuesday. Normal time, normal place. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking News. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you alive from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City, News Dance Studios. Joined as usual with John. How are you doing, John? Doing great, thanks.
+
+[0:20] Great, great. Got uh Joe Hazen rocking the panels. What's up? Hey, hey, hey, welcome. Welcome, yeah.
+
+[0:26] Welcome to everyone. We are a California list today. I think maybe the entire state of California with Jackie Molecules and Nastasia the Hammer Lopez has maybe finally cracked off and floated off into the Pacific because they're not here today. But in the upper left-hand corner corner, we know Vancouver and Vancouver Island is still here. So we got we got Quinn.
+
+[0:42] How you doing? Yeah, right at the Vancouver Island already cracked off. Yeah, but only a little bit. Only a little bit. Like you can still like telephone across from it.
+
+[0:52] You can get like a light plane or a ferry from the from the mainland over there. Yeah. It's a nice ferry. It's a weird little place, Vancouver. Island.
+
+[1:02] You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And Nanaimo. Yeah. Anyway.
+
+[1:07] Uh all right. And uh today's special guest uh is Joshua McFadden, whose new book, Six Seasons of Pasta, A New Way with Everyone's Favorite Food. Speaking of everyone's favorite food, it's a shame Nastasia's not here because pasta is literally her favorite food. I mean, you can say everyone's favorite food, but I mean it's Nastasia's little favorite food. Because at one period in my life I didn't make pasta at least three times a week.
+
+[1:32] She said that I hated pasta. She's like, You hate pasta? I'm like, what are you talking about? I love pasta. She's like, you don't make it three times a week.
+
+[1:38] I'm like, that doesn't mean I don't What That's amazing. I love that. Yeah. And of course, she had that pasta restaurant with uh Mark Ladner, who you call out in your uh pasta flyer. Let me ask you a question.
+
+[1:49] You put your acknowledgments at the end of the book. What's up with that instead of the beginning? Like, what's the theory of operation? Uh asked the publisher that one. Oh, that wasn't uh you you weren't like one of those like strong feelings one way or the other?
+
+[2:02] No, not necessarily. It's always kind of the I've done three with them, so it's always just kind of been at the end. Yeah. But I hear what you're saying, because the whole thing is kind of like a a tome to Ladner in a way. I told him that when I saw him when I gave him one when at Babbo last time I was here.
+
+[2:16] Did you I haven't been for the reopening? I haven't been. I th I'm hoping to go on Thursday, but you just went when they were hooking it all up. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[2:22] Now he was figuring it all out. That restaurant, what was there when it was it did it go totally dark for a while? You know, I asked the same thing. I said, What was it? And he goes, It was Baba.
+
+[2:31] And it was really funny. And then I had dinner with him later that same week, and I asked him more in depth, and he's like, Well, it's been there since basically like James Beard himself lived like right next door. And he was really good friends with the actual original owner. So they went way back and kind of looked at the old historical menus from the beginning and kind of went that direction. And now he's like the master of ceremony out in the middle of the dining room, which is incredible.
+
+[2:54] Oh yeah. No. He has like 30-day ministroni where he's like making a pesto and cutting the lasagna out. He's making it for next month now. Exactly.
+
+[3:05] For the holidays. And he's got like lasagna that he's doing out on the table. It's really cool. Yeah, high-end sandbagging concepts. I'll let him know that.
+
+[3:14] For those of you that don't know, uh it's one of the all-time my favorite restaurant terms, sandbagging. And if you don't know what we're talking about, like whenever you have a flood or perhaps you're about to get shot at by an enemy, you just take a whole bunch of bags of sand, which either can stop water or bullets, I guess, and you just stick them up in front of you for protection. And uh in restaurant parlance, it just means get a boat ton of prep done so you don't have to worry about it later. So, like when your prep person is going on vacation for two weeks, they tend to over sandbag and then the stuff you end up losing like a whole bunch of product that they've sandbagged, and because you're not used to sandbagging that particular product, it goes bad because it wasn't stored right. They're like, What do you mean?
+
+[3:57] We always keep this in the walk-in. Yeah, not for two weeks, jerk. Yeah, you know what I mean. Hey, listen, I think the art of the whole thing, right, is figuring out what you can do that to and what you can't. You know what I mean?
+
+[4:09] Sure, sure. Uh you know, Andre Sultner, rest in peace, you know, you know, one of the kitchen gods, uh, ran Lutes. You knew that he was in the restaurant because it was open. You know, uh I love that. Yeah.
+
+[4:23] But he once said to me, he's like, I bought fresh every day. That's like, as I because I was asking him about vacuuming, because like you know, he, you know, Lutes was still going great guns when the Trogo brothers were doing all of their nonsense. And so I asked him if he ever considered getting a vac vacuum machine, not for and he only associated it with sandbagging. So he's like, no, I do not do when I buy fresh every day. I'm like, okay, chef, you didn't talk quite like that.
+
+[4:46] Similar, but not quite. Close. Close. Buys the best, waste nothing. Alzatian Mafia.
+
+[4:52] The Alzatian food mafia is so strong. You know what I mean? You got your uh Sultner, you got your JG. You know, the Alzatians, you know, you think it's because they got taken over so many times. Is that why the Belgians are so good?
+
+[5:08] I suppose. No? I don't know. No. No?
+
+[5:11] No, I don't think so. All right. Yeah. I happen to actually like German qu uh cooking. So the mixture of German and French to me is like good.
+
+[5:20] Yeah. Especially all that wine right there. Oh, yeah. He always would tell the same story. When he was uh Sultaner again, sorry, when he was uh cooking when he you know wasn't running in the kitchen when he was still, you know, like uh comia or whatever the heck he was.
+
+[5:32] Even younger when he was apprentice, he would uh I forget where he was, probably somewhere like Lyon, somewhere I don't know. And uh, but he would always have like a giant rondeau with like onions going low because that's what he whenever you would ask him just to make something, he would just get this huge and just millions of onions and just cook them for infinity. Yeah. But he he said oh, but he would just do onion tarts. Because he's Alzatian.
+
+[5:55] So it's just onion tarts out the ears. You know what I mean? With uh I think most people who make onion tarts now, they do it with a puff paste, right? He was not, he was a short crust man. I love that.
+
+[6:05] Yeah. Yeah. Short crust man. Yeah. Do you do a do you do a cashmel on the bottom?
+
+[6:09] I don't. No, I love that though. I um kind of just get a lot of cheese in there. Different cheeses. I did one in my first book that was kind of a a a play on that.
+
+[6:19] It was it was good. I like that. I love that recipe. I'm a cheat or two. So like what uh the way I'll do it is regardless of the base, it's always uh cheese, cream, and eggs, and then I fold it in with the onions and let it bake into a sauce.
+
+[6:32] I don't bother making a sauce. Right, right, right. And then I've seen it with crumb fresh as well, right? Well, I don't know. Like a little bit in there, like, what do you do to stop it from breaking?
+
+[6:41] I don't know. But I've seen it in there. I mean, I don't think it's a lot. I think they actually put it on the bottom of the crust and then put everything on top of it. Huh.
+
+[6:47] So it's like another added layer. I mean, someday, someday I will try. I used that was one thing I used to make like weekly, onion tarts. Just bang them out in the onion tarts. That's sandbagging for the week, right?
+
+[6:56] Yeah, right. Meal prep. Well, it was also like at for some reason I don't know why. It was like the party thing of choice. It's like, uh, party, onion tarts.
+
+[7:06] Because they it doesn't matter. Hot, cold, doesn't matter. They're so good though. I mean, especially this time of year. It's a good holiday.
+
+[7:11] I think I need to make one now because of this. Yeah, and well, and back then I didn't have the now, I'm so lazy that like it's easy to cook onions to perfection because I have that freaking control freak, so I can just put the onions in, walk away from them, and never have to worry about it. That's interesting. That's a good point. You know what I mean?
+
+[7:27] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, whatever. Like, you know, an hour and a half onion's not a problem for me anymore. I used to be like a 22-minute onion guy. 22 minutes.
+
+[7:34] That's the maximum I had in my heart to sit around and look at some onions on a on a stove to hell with this. But now I'm like, I don't have brilliant. You know what I mean? Yep. Uh, but back to what he so he used to put, he used to put cooking wine.
+
+[7:47] It must have been terrible because it was boiling because it was like sitting in, he would put it in the rondeau so that the chef couldn't see it, and then out of the thing. Oh my gosh. Looney voons, man. That's rich. I remember once I went uh to some cooking school in Portland, actually.
+
+[8:03] What was the name of the big uh cooking school that was uh Lee Corn Blue, the Western Culinary Institute? Yeah, and they didn't trust their students, so they used salted w uh cooking wine. You ever seen that in a cooking school? Salted cooking wine? That's a real story.
+
+[8:17] It's a real story. So I went to go taste it to see what it was like. I was like, what the hell is this? I was like, I was like, listen, folks, I can I can afford like you know, the wine to drink. I'm not trying to get high off your supply here, but this is wretched.
+
+[8:33] You know what I mean? It's just a horror show. Oh, that's amazing. I've never heard that. That's brilliant.
+
+[8:37] Yeah, yeah. Oh, uh speaking of salt, before we get into the weekend review, which is what we normally do at the beginning of the show. I noticed you, much like you know, many actual chefs, like probably Mark and Wiley, never use salted butter. Except for you call out salted birat, because you say when you're gonna have like a uh a higher grade of butter, get that, but you wouldn't use that for eating, you wouldn't use that for eating. Do you buy salted butter for eating?
+
+[9:06] Like when you're saying eating, though, like adding into something like that. I mean, like I'm gonna have bread. Oh, yeah, 1,000%. Yeah, salt. Yes, one thousand percent.
+
+[9:14] Because it's better than salt, it's better than wiping butter. Yeah, salted butter. Yes. Yeah, okay, fine. All right.
+
+[9:22] So, but I'm just too lazy to stock too, and I know I'm gonna add a boat ton of salt to everything I make anyway. Right, right, right, right. But Wiley gets so bent, he looks in my fridge, and you know, I've got like four pounds of like salted butter, and they why don't you get the unsalted? I was like, cuz man. What's your favorite butter of choice?
+
+[9:37] Oh, to eat. Yeah. Uh uh, Beppiocino's uh Italian, it's not cultured, which is weird, but it's just so good. The cream is just so good. Eatily stocks it, uh, but um it there's two suppliers that bring it in.
+
+[9:52] Um I used to buy it at DiPalos because I buy everything at DiPalos that I can buy at Di Polo's, but uh he would always airship that in. So when, you know, once the prices went up and like he wasn't pulling air shipments of the peppy Occino, because they make the testum, which when the chestnut leaves, which is oh sick cheese, you know what I mean? But he just hasn't had the butter in a while, but it's such good butter. What about domestic butter? I don't know much about domestic butter.
+
+[10:13] What do you like? I love organic valley. Really? I've not had it. Yeah.
+
+[10:17] Is that a cultured or a sweet? Uh it's sweet. Uh, but they do have cultured, I think, every once in a while when they do like a grass-fed special in the springtime. It's actually really an amazing company, really cool story. Like real deal co-op.
+
+[10:28] They have farms all over the country, and they supply milk and they make butter, and it's the real deal. It's it's like I think one percent less butter fat than uh the Irish one. What's the Irish one that's like? Carrie Kerry Gold, yeah, which everyone loves. What's that?
+
+[10:43] Is that like because our standard, by the way, for those of you keeping track is 82. Right. So I think that that's 83. And then the organic valley is 82, I believe. It's something something red like that.
+
+[10:52] Here's the thing, right? But the organic valley is organic and it has a lot of regenerative farming, which the carry gold does not. But it comes in the beautiful gold back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's the one with the with the little girl's face on it?
+
+[11:02] Oh that's also Irish, right? Is it? Isn't it? Anyway. I know what you're talking about, but I don't know the name of that one.
+
+[11:07] Well, I've never been so hyped on the exact fat content, because like there's are applications where the exact amount of water in your butter does make a difference. Totally. But most of the time when I'm cooking, not really. You know what I mean? But I remember uh who is it?
+
+[11:22] Uh repair pluga. I like the pluga, but they do not pay me. That's what he said in a uh a talk once. Maybe they pay him now. That was like 15 years ago.
+
+[11:31] You know what I mean? Like brilliant. But uh yeah, I never bought I never bought. I mean, I'm not gonna spend extra money on supermarket French butter though. Yeah.
+
+[11:37] Are you? I have a little market called Provador in Portland that I go to and they have got some good butters. But now with tariffs, it's probably gonna be too much. So I have to get a cow and just make my own. The best time to buy French products was this is perverse, but right after 9-11 when everyone was boycotting French products and like no one wanted it.
+
+[11:55] And like, first of all, at that time, cheese was still cheap anyway, because there the cheese explosion hadn't happened. You know, there was no Instagram, so there were no cheesmongers of Instagram, which there's a documentary out now. Yeah. I think Steve Jenkins had just started pushing burrata, but he was no longer at Fairway every day. So uh we literally get this.
+
+[12:13] I had to do a photo shoot, I forget what magazine for, where I was their cheese supplier, and I was like, yo, I'm gonna go get some burrata, and they wanted me to work with Steve Jenkins' products because he had been the consultant for the article. So I'm like, fine. So I go up to Fairway and the burrata, it's like oh two or oh three, something like that. The burrata, whoever was storing it, for those of you don't know what brat birata is like a mozzarella with stracciatella on the inside. So it's think of it as mozzarella plus goop on the inside, and you break open almost like one of those gums that has the gusher, like a gusher gum for mozzarella, and you cut it open, it's got the goop.
+
+[12:47] I actually it what? You're gonna say you don't like it or you do like it. Oh, I love it. I love it. I love it, but I'm gonna go ahead and say this.
+
+[12:54] If you have to buy in advance, just buy the stracciatella. A thousand percent and put that out with your bread, texture's gonna be better when you pull it out of the fridge. I mean, you know what I mean? In my opinion. I agree.
+
+[13:05] But like uh a fresh burrata is a thing of beauty, right? Oh, yeah. Anyway, oh man, especially especially when you're Italy, just like go in and eat it like an apple and just makes a mess. They turned it upside down in a core container, uh-huh, and all of the liquid from the stracciatella drained out as though they were trying to make like Greek yogurt or something. And I was like, what the hell are you doing?
+
+[13:25] Is it like punctured itself on the little knot? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. So it's got the weird little plastic in the hay that they wrap those things in upside down in a core container. Like, my people.
+
+[13:35] So then I had to go to DiPalos and been like, Louie, I apologize. I need to buy one of your buratas, but it's gonna say that Steve Jenkins sold it to me. He's like, anyway. I don't know how I got on that. Uh oh, so uh anything interesting happened this week.
+
+[13:49] When is the when's the pub date on this guy? It was the 30th. It's uh been out for a month and what, 17 days or wherever we're at right now. Yeah, all right. Well, people, it's uh six seasons of pasta.
+
+[13:59] Uh not actually the follow-up to uh six seasons of vegetables. You had a book in between. I did uh grains, but it wasn't only the one season of grain. Right, yeah. Any season.
+
+[14:08] Any well, because they only harvest grain the one time. Turns out. It turns out you're not one of those guys who like uh who surfs the the the buckwheat harvest. You ever meet the region to this region, yeah, yeah. Oh my god.
+
+[14:21] Do you remember in the early 2000s uh when um what's it the Gohan Society would bring in all of these like like awesome Japanese chefs to do demos in New York? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And one of them was some soba nut. And he was literally talking about like almost like surfing the mountain.
+
+[14:38] He would go like he would he would go plot by plot up the mountain, rolling harvest to get the buckwheat for the soba. And then he showed it. It's such a thing. It's such a thing. And he's cutting, cutting, cutting.
+
+[14:47] And then you know what he did? He boiled it in a huge pot of unsalted water and then rinsed it. And I'm like, what the hell? Seriously. Seriously.
+
+[14:57] And I was like, 'cause like I guess in his restaurant, he's got the same pot of soba water going forever, and so it's almost like a s soba solera. But when he was making it here, I was like, you I'm like thinking about like the buckwheat and the altitude and the time of the harvest, and then hey, why don't I wash all that flavor down? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's wild. It's crazy, right?
+
+[15:18] That is wild. Is there anybody doing soba well now here? I don't know. Probably. Is there?
+
+[15:24] Yeah. Because it's like one of those things that it's not everywhere. Like how the ramen takeover. It's it's still a thing that's not that much. Obviously, New York must have it, but on the West Coast we don't have much, but there's like one up in Seattle.
+
+[15:34] Really? Is it good? It was very good, yeah. I I love Soba. I like the knife.
+
+[15:38] I bought one just to practice. And uh not to say I was good at it, 'cause I was not, but it's like a really when you see them cut the soba, like the turning yourself into a machine that can do soba like just once or twice to get it a feeling for that. Like I couldn't do it for a lifetime. That's very cool. But it's you know, fun.
+
+[15:59] It is cool. Anyway, so uh so this book's out, and I recommend that uh you buy your cookbooks, including this one, especially if you're a Patreon member and you want to get a discount at Kitchen Arts and Letters. And in fact, Matt Sartwell from Kitchen Arts and Letters is gonna be on next week for your holiday holiday book buying. If you're gonna buy a non uh a non-cookbook, you know, maybe buy it from McNally Jackson here locally. You know what I mean?
+
+[16:23] But if you were gonna buy a cookbook, you know, gotta go to the always Kitchen Kitchen Arts and Letters. You know what I mean? Absolutely. He's the reason for six seasons. Really?
+
+[16:31] True story. Yeah, I just told him that when I was up there signing that a couple months ago. Sorry. Um when I first moved here, my first job was at Franny's way back in the day. So it was like 2022.
+
+[16:40] And I used to go up to Kitchen Arts and Letters all the time, and I kept trying to find something that was similar to a book like this with seasonality, and it was more like English books like River Cottage and obviously River Cafe. Those were great books, by the way. The best, right? All of them, the small ones too. Oh meat, the meat one, they were incredible.
+
+[17:00] And uh I guess one thing I love about that meat book that I'm sure you liked. The picture of the pig with the dotted lines on it, like a real live thing on the ground with the dotted lines. That book was amazing. Oh, it was so good. Um, but I asked him, I was like, is there anything here that is like seasonal?
+
+[17:15] Like for this area, because when I just I had moved from the Bay Area, quick stop in Chicago, and then um was here and Franny's was super seasonal and it was amazing, but I go to other places and it wasn't as much, and I found that really interesting. And then um, so I started talking about that, and he didn't have anything. And he's like, Oh, we could uh how about the New Jersey farmers almanac for next year? And you're like, I don't need to know when to plant. And so that literally that kind of always kind of stayed in my head as that idea of like um that's kind of my focus on those things of seasonality.
+
+[17:52] And then you you you ran with it. I did. I did, I did. Uh oh, speaking of uh seasons, I hear tell on the internets that you like bought a farm or you're renovated. I did, yeah, a 50-acre farm.
+
+[18:04] So 50 acres, give me a how big is 50? I know how physically big 50 acres is, but what can you do on 50 acres? Like what's a 50 acre farm? Well, I would love to put a 12-acre vineyard, but I don't know if that's in the budget. 12 out of the 50?
+
+[18:17] Yeah, that'd be really cool because I have a really amazing south-facing slope. That'd be really, really perfect for that. I could also almost have different varieties going up. Yeah, how much longer you plan on living? Well, the whole thing is gonna be an agricultural center that I'm putting in a trust to leave it there forever.
+
+[18:33] And I wouldn't want to make wine, I'd actually want to make vinegar. Oh. So I would have a whole different idea about it. Um, and right now there's eight acres under agriculture, then there's a flower farmer, and this coming summer we're actually gonna start hopefully building fences and putting in orchards and start thinking about like bringing on animals and guardian dogs and things like that. So it's a very, very big project.
+
+[18:53] Wait, say the say the fruits again. The fruits? Yeah, fruits. Um not yet. But um new pears.
+
+[19:00] Are you in the are you in the pear area? Are you near Corvallis or everything? You know, I just this is interesting. All right, I'm glad you brought that up. I um I'm in the Willama Valley, yeah.
+
+[19:07] Um, I think this year I kind of realized that I think I like pears more than apples. Okay, hold on. That's very strong, but I know, but it's it's the per the perfume and the texture of uh a pear really hit me this year. I don't know why. I mean, obviously I love apples, and I live in like apple country.
+
+[19:23] You also live in pear country. Right. And so there was just and there's a lot of fruit country, yeah. Yeah, and there's Japanese pears, and I'm obsessed with peaches. I'm convinced it's like the best thing in the world.
+
+[19:31] Peaches? Peach. Like, what's better than a perfect peach and somewhere? Okay. The nectarine is like a peach with, you know, better acid.
+
+[19:40] Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I like fuzzy crack. But it has more texture. I just like the I like the You like the Fuzzy Crab. I like the softness of it, I think.
+
+[19:47] Uh but back to pears. Uh I had a I had a Japanese pear that just kind of like blew my mind. I have been wanting to visit Corvalis during pear season to visit the um USDA GRN like um repository of pears for decades. And I've never never saw them. It's a really cool little area down there.
+
+[20:06] And the peaches down there are unbelievable too. Which what's seen? What about what what about the is there what what's the bear give me some berry foam? What's a berry that I you can get there that I can't get elsewhere? The mar the marion berries are pretty wild and not.
+
+[20:20] There was a farmer out there that used to have josta berries. Yeah. He's not around anymore. Or he's not farming out there anymore. I think he's on the east coast somewhere.
+
+[20:28] But I remember talking to him about his berries, and he's like, Yeah, no one does this anymore. No one grows berries like this anymore. Marionberry, not related to Mayor Marionberry, right? Right. Yeah.
+
+[20:39] Amazing, wouldn't it? Um the salmon berries are really amazing. Yeah, Alexander. Yeah, they're really cool. They're um but they're weird, they're variable.
+
+[20:47] It's like plant to plant. I was just gonna say the same thing. Yeah. They're like mulberries that way. Right, right, right, right, right.
+
+[20:53] Umberries are amazing too. The trees themselves are just oh yeah. I love the mitten shape, weird leaves. Yeah. Like you can watch them grow.
+
+[21:01] It's like the zucchini of fruit trees. But with, you know, at least they don't make zucchini. Exactly. You must love zucchini. You wrote a book.
+
+[21:08] No, really? Yeah, because they suck. They really do. It's like water bags. Hey, speaking of water bags.
+
+[21:16] Yeah, but before we get into what we've done in the week, they're great fried. Once you get the water out of them. Once you get the water. You know, uh, I used to go so bananas because my mom used to make eggplant. She used to squeeze the bejesus out of them.
+
+[21:30] We would salt them, layer them on a cutting board on an angle, wait on top. You know what I mean? To try to get all the stuff out of them. And then like I that was so imbued in me that that's the way that you did eggplant that I used to salt them and vacuum bag them to smash all of the air out of them so that they wouldn't absorb any oil. I just don't like absorptive vegetables when they're absorbing.
+
+[21:52] I've learned to love all forms of eggplant in my later life. Have you ever just fried it, lightly salted it, and then just patted it dry and just deep fried it? No. Stir-fried. Like, similar, but I've never deep fried.
+
+[22:04] I've never deep fried chunks of Asian style, though, you're acting then you're adding a bunch of flavor to it. It takes on a whole life of its own. That's the only way I've ever the only term. But I I really enjoy that. I think it's really cool.
+
+[22:21] The one that I tried to do when existing conditions open when we're working with uh Shorty was this prep I had in um in Shenzhen for the first time where they take uh the long, you know, Asian style, Japanese style, longer ones, uh, and you kind of roast them out, then you split them and you lay them flat. Then you hack them up, and then you brush the oil and the flavor in, and then you re you griddle it or grill it, and then the whole thing's like bubbling and the skin gets crispy. Yeah, eggplant's wild. Yeah, it's a really interesting vegetable. It has nothing to do with uh how we got here with zucchini.
+
+[22:54] No, but do you think a zucchini looks in an eggplant and it's like, oh, it just has to feel bad out there in general, don't you think? I mean, first of all, zucchini not really. I mean, they're the only ones that like people are giving away. Yeah. Like the little signs that say free.
+
+[23:07] Free zucchini. You know what's weird? That used to be the same with bluefish back in the day. People would give away bluefish, and now people are like, oh, I want the I mean, I always liked bluefish because I'm not a moron. You know what I mean?
+
+[23:17] But like maybe someday I'll be the morning. You're like, you because we're like, oh, it's a trash vegetable. No, it's someone's gonna figure out the ultimate other than bread, which fine shredded, shredded in bread. There's a good one in here. Yeah.
+
+[23:30] It's like roofing on uh Stanley Tucci's recipe that it goes off on. You ever met that guy? I have not. I would love to. So uh it's not in your it's not in your vegetable ragu, though, is it?
+
+[23:41] Um no, they're rusted. Yeah. I don't I don't think so. I think that that one's kind of can vary with all different things, but it's not a primary now. So a lot of meat in this book, but also a lot of vegetarian and vegan restaurants.
+
+[23:52] And it can be gluten-free actually, because it's all about dried noodles. Oh, by the way, I think you're correct. The corn-based noodles are better than you think they would be. They've actually gotten really good. Why are they so much?
+
+[24:01] What is it that the do they add corn zine? Like corn protein. I haven't figured that out because I just recently with doing this in the last year, we started talking to people that are like literally can't have regular pasta, so I kept asking them like what's the one? And they kept saying they don't like the ones that have rice. And the c everyone kept saying I like the corn ones now.
+
+[24:18] It was a yellow corn one I had that was not bad. Right, right, right, right. I was like, I was like, they don't obviously absorb the the the noodle and the condiment as well, but it's still kind of shocking. If you wouldn't if you didn't tell somebody, you could almost pull it off. Like in an interesting way.
+
+[24:34] The Brad's corn pasta is very good. What's the company? Brad's. I don't know it. It's made here.
+
+[24:40] Yeah, it's made made here in the States. Uh it's a you can get funded at any grocery store. It has its own, uh it's organic, it's great for children. Is it East Coast brand? East Coast brand.
+
+[24:50] Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Cool. Yeah. But my son has allergy to eggs, so we can't have any of that fresh pasta.
+
+[24:56] Um by the way, book is about dried pasta. So don't go to this book looking for a bunch of fresh pasta recipes. Another reason I wish uh Nastasia was on the show because there's nothing she hates more than fresh pasta. I'm assuming you don't hate it, it's just not about that. No, I love it in dumpling form.
+
+[25:10] In dumpling form. We had this conversation uh a couple of weeks ago with uh Alex Camp who's on dumplings and noodles. So give me give me the your favorite dumpling format. Do you are your spetzel? I love Spetzel.
+
+[25:23] That is really good. I mean, I like filled. When I say filled or dumplings, I'm thinking filled. We're going straight to Ravioli, but then also if you're going that way. I don't even think of it as a dumpling because it's like the the um remember going back to Mark.
+
+[25:35] Um remember the Rakota Nokia Lupa. That thing haunts me. It was so it was like a sausage ragu. Oh no, yes, with tons of black pepper. Wait, what just and they were so big, it was amazing.
+
+[25:48] They're just like pillows, but it held up really well. What was the lamb ragoo thing he did? That was just a thing that was around a lot, right? I remember um special that was always kind of with like Tagatelli. If you for garganelli.
+
+[26:00] For listeners, uh I have a thing about gnocchi. I I try block it out because I'm not good at making it, and I don't know why. I can't figure out why. It's really difficult. That's what I'm saying.
+
+[26:08] It haunts me too. Yeah, yeah. Because I look at that one, I remember like I have that exact recipe, and I remember making it back in the day, and it would always work there. Yeah. But it never works now.
+
+[26:15] Yeah, it's one of those things I'm like I feel like there would somebody was doing something to the racotta at nighttime. Yeah. Just so you wouldn't know that spoken holes in there. You know, chefs used to do that crap. Like we used to get salt the wine.
+
+[26:25] Yeah, we used to we used to get chefs who would come in and give us their recipes, and it wouldn't taste right until they came in and fixed it because they wouldn't give you the actual freaking recipe. Sure. Mark's not like that. No, he's not. Not at all.
+
+[26:35] You know what? Weird, right? Uh all right. Before before we forget, what's uh what's the weekend? What's the week of in review?
+
+[26:42] I made some just good crispy skinned pork belly last week. Yeah. Um what's your what's your give me give me the give me the Yeah yeah like so low uh score the skalted in the walk in 5050 salt sugar? You want me to loan you the uh you want me to loan you the freaking uh the machine? Oh maybe the Danish the Danish cat claw machine that Kevin gave us.
+
+[27:06] All right, I'll loan next uh next week I'll bring it. Perfect. All right, right. Awesome. Um 300 to just kind of render out the fat for I think it was like three hours, then uh upped it to four.
+
+[27:21] Wait, try. Uh had cured it with 5050 salt sugar mix, let it sit in the walk-in for four days. But when you were putting in 300, oh liquid? No, nothing. Dry.
+
+[27:31] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um in a half pan, so it's pork belly cut in half. Um yeah, then 425 for like 45 minutes can get all nice and crispy, and it was uh delicious. Bubbly, bubbly, yes. It's gonna have to there was one little soft spot that I had to freshen up with fryer oil.
+
+[27:47] But what do you think? What's the theory of the baking soda on skin that some people put on it? Because it's gonna make it browner, right? Because it's baking soda, it's gonna make it more alkaline. Do you think it's gonna make it any better?
+
+[27:57] I don't think it's what about with beans. Oh, well, this makes it softer. Uh, how's your water in Oregon? It's well, I have a wall, so it's pretty hard. Yeah.
+
+[28:07] So I mean, for you, I could see it. And you know, any any water that's got high calcium, you can add a little little alkalinity to to like nuke it out. But I don't like it. Yeah. The smell of beans cooking with baking soda bothers the hell out of me.
+
+[28:21] I know it's gonna go away when I correct it. You know, for those of you that don't know, when you do use any sort of alkaline in your beans, as soon as they are done to how you like them, add some freaking acid to that thing so that they don't keep mushing out. Do you agree with this? And olive oil, in my opinion. I I put a lot of really good olive oil in the at the end and kind of mix it in there because it's like liquid gold.
+
+[28:44] I added early I do both. Okay, both food. Yeah. But like at the end, like when you're like putting it in there, you can just like kind of see it, it's doing something more, and then you're seasoning it more aggressively at the end, right? Yeah, by the way, in the book, uh, you call out uh olive oil, olive oil beginning the end.
+
+[28:59] This is a theme in the book, and you say what I think is correct, unlike olive oil Nick, Nick Coleman, who uses expensive, crazy fancy olive oil for all things. And you're like, why don't you just get a moderately decent one to use when you're cooking and then a good one for finishing, which I think makes sense. I don't know he just is swimming in olive oil. That's the reason he can do that kind of stuff. You know what I mean?
+
+[29:20] I agree. I mean, I would like to be able to do that too. Yeah, I mean, who wouldn't? I would like to be able to uh I wish I had an olive trees. Yeah, you know, like uh I remember once, uh remember Ken Ken Oranger, famous chef.
+
+[29:31] He was doing a soup, and this was uh 2004, 2003 at what restaurant was that in Boston at the time? Clio probably trio or whatever. Anyway, uh it was a soup that was all filled with the most expensive ingredients possible. And I was like, Well, I just wanna just put a freaking shiffon out of hundred dollar bills on top of that thing. You know what I mean?
+
+[29:48] Like it's like I didn't I didn't get it. Is it garnish? Yeah, yeah. Shuck, shuck, shuck, shuc, shrink. You know what I mean?
+
+[29:52] I was like, what the hell, dude? You know what I mean? I love it. It's like, we're not, you know, I don't know. Uh okay.
+
+[29:58] Uh where are we going with that? So beans. Beans. Fajol. Oh, well, first of all, where did you put that?
+
+[29:59] You you didn't put it in winter, you put it in fall, right? So the theory is is that oh yeah, six seasons of pasta. And the six seasons are, first of all, you start with ragues, I guess, just as a basis for learning slow cook stuff. And then also all the any seasons, which is kind of like the what the mother sauces, if you will, like the cache pepe, matrichana, carbonara. Yeah, which we'll talk about because you do that, you like interesting style on that.
+
+[30:31] And then the seasons are you got your spring, which you didn't just do a straight, I mean, because they're all this, right? You didn't do a straight primavera, which is kind of a disappointing pasta anyway. Yeah, do you find it the disappointing pasta? Yes, yes. I prefer like the one that's all mashed up with the favas and the asparagus peas.
+
+[30:48] I I kind of dig back more. But um it's a it is disappointing. That's just an interesting way to put it. I've never thought about it that way. Great word.
+
+[30:54] Oh, pasta primavera. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? But it's just like going back to the soup idea, like maybe just make minestroni. And then you got three different summers fall and winter, right?
+
+[31:05] So it's more big because you get more rolling, at least in temperate climates, you get more rolling difference. Although it's interesting, I never thought of beets as early summer. Because I don't think they're both. You know, they're like storage, but uh the sweetness in the spring is really cool. It's kind of like new potatoes and any of that uh business.
+
+[31:21] That's what we did, at least on the farm. Another thing so that I can before I forget. So I think it's spring. You do an aspar is yes, it's asparagus. You do a hot tuna mac.
+
+[31:33] Bring in tuna mac back. I'm from Wisconsin. I can't help myself. I love tuna. We had this conversation, I think also, like a couple weeks ago with Alex Camp from Philly.
+
+[31:43] Yeah, and I was like, yo, I like a I like it. I like a I like a tuna mac salad. Yes. Cold. And I like a hot, I like a hot tuna mac casserole.
+
+[31:52] Actually, going back to the uh zucchini and summer squatch, we did that in the first book with uh with uh like a a bake. Really? Cheese and tuna. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[32:01] Everyone loves it. They're always still talking about it like 10 years later. And uh, you know, you in all of the recipes, not all of them, in many of the recipes, you do, as you say, not quote unquote autentico, but like a 50-50 Parmigiano Reggiano and uh and um uh peccarino. Yeah, pecorino romano mix, and by the way, interestingly, call out the microplane is like nope. Doesn't melt right as as flavor flavor would say.
+
+[32:25] I didn't melt right, like but like uh well it's true, right? I mean it won't it kind of all of a sudden stick to the bottom of the pan and kind of gum up and just be in one area as opposed to like actually emulsifying in. Yeah, I think it's I think that texture is a little bit of a little bit of a little bit on top, yeah. I love it on top of pasta, I think it's because it fluffs so high. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[32:42] For a given weight. So you have a gr you have like a very like uh like almost yeah, like old school looking great, like graded mix of a 50-50. Do you have a particular, I mean, there's such a there's a wide range as you point out in Parmigiano quality, but I think even more so in uh pecorino romano. Some of it's just so bad. Some of it is so bad.
+
+[33:02] It's all like one note. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's I'm always just kind of tasting it and finding new stuff, to be honest. I mean, some are delicious. Yeah, some are really and some of them are a little bit like you can actually kind of peel them up and they're really beautiful and texturally just kind of soft, you know, even looking at them, they're kind of like ready to be eaten.
+
+[33:18] Um, but yes, to your point, some of them are just even the texture's kind of off. Yeah. It's kind of wild. So, how long do you how long do you uh think uh a graded 50-50 will last in your in your fridge? You know, that's a great question because honestly, um it almost tends to emulsify better when it is has been in the refrigerator a little bit longer because it's kind of dried out, so you're adding moisture back into it in a weird way, which is interesting.
+
+[33:41] Um I don't know if I've ever like thought about it because I'm always using it so fast, but I don't think I've ever really had any go bad. Right. All right. So it's hard, it's a tough question to answer, but I definitely think like two or three weeks for sure. Oh, yeah?
+
+[33:56] Yeah, yeah. If if you're letting oxygen into the situation, yeah. And that one more thing before we go into Quinn's gonna say what he did this week, and uh, and then we're gonna hit we're gonna hit some more points in here because fundamentally there's a zillion recipes in here. Um the ones I was uh perused. I think we're gonna go over hopefully some of the ins and outs of the techniques, but you know, very most of them I'd say, like approachable, you could bang them out.
+
+[34:22] They're bang, you could bang them out. Like and like a lot of ones where you could pick it up and like throw it in your toolkit. And a lot of them where you wreck say where they came from. The craziest one, the loonyest one I saw was you doing an adaptation of which I hadn't read this because I'm ashamed to say I I didn't read the book it was in is Marcella Hazan's. Oh yeah, yeah.
+
+[34:41] I know you're going with this. Yeah. So John, if you did I mean, here. So take a look. Here's what happens.
+
+[34:46] He's gonna look at it, he's like, get out, get out, get out. Wait hold on, that's this fucking kale guy. Tell me that. Yeah. Well, but also like a half of an onion in the that's the thing I was gonna think, a half of an onion.
+
+[34:59] Yeah, that's her recipe. All I did was add the kale. In the sauce. Yeah, with kale. You love kale.
+
+[35:05] I do love kale, but I in there it's really interesting though, because it takes on this like almost like it tastes like like seaweed. It's really cool. It's really special. I'm not against cooked kale PS. Right.
+
+[35:14] Just tell you like raw kale. This is why I'm here, right? Do you like raw kale? I love raw kale. What are you gonna do with it?
+
+[35:20] You know, that little salad that I made a long time ago. Use it as a scrubby? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you massage the hell out of it? I do.
+
+[35:27] Yeah, well, that makes sense. Chilies, breadcrumbs. That's like cooking. 50-50. That's like cooking.
+
+[35:31] You can bring out the microplane on that one. Tons of lemon. Is it is it lemon or is it kale at the end of the day? Needing a kale is is akin to cooking it. I would agree.
+
+[35:39] But like people who if you're just going to cut it and put it with dressing. Sure. Oh, I would totally agree with that. Yeah. Like like Pizza Hut.
+
+[35:51] Oh man, does Pizza Hut do that? So we were I I knew this fact, but I had to pull it up before the show because I was watching um uh Josh's uh Instagram piece about the set the excuse me about the kale. So Pizza Hut was the largest purchaser of kale in the United States up to the year 2013, buying 44,000 pounds of kale to dress all their salad bars to cover the ice. That's because it's bulletproof. Get out of here.
+
+[36:18] Yeah, no, I hadn't heard that before. But that's bulletproof. But they don't eat it. Unbelievable. They don't eat it.
+
+[36:23] They don't eat it. It's bulletproof. I thought you were gonna say scrub cabbage salad at pizza. That was even more confusing. That's just to dress the salad bar.
+
+[36:33] Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. I need to go. I haven't been to a pizza hut in a long time.
+
+[36:38] I gotta say, like, as long if you don't think of their pizza as being what you consider to be the pizza that you like, I think it's fine. Yeah, I agree totally. I think they started making a I've made a tavern style one that's actually like the thin crispy one. Really? That everyone really likes.
+
+[36:52] Everyone did. Speaking of likes, I like the fabric on your on your sweater jacket there. Well, thank you so much. Is it wool? It's kale.
+
+[36:58] It's kale. It's kale color. It's a light, it's lighter than kale. Kale is dark as dark as death. The uh the spinning kale.
+
+[37:05] I'll tell you something else. Uh cabbage on a sandwich, shredded cabbage on a sandwich is great. Yes. Like a fried chicken sandwich. Cabbage in general is great.
+
+[37:12] Oh my god, cabbage is good. I love it. You know what's really good? I don't know what the there's I don't know if there's a term for it, but like whatever micwi would be for curing a cabbage is delicious. Where it's like you have salted it and it's started to go a little bit lactic, but it's not sauerkraut yet.
+
+[37:30] Is there a term for that? You should see the cabbage recipe in there with the panchetta and the clawburn chilies. Yeah, that one's really good. Do you like the do you like the the the fancy conical cabbage? Yeah, those are really fun to like cut up and then just kind of like sear up like steaks and like actual sauce, and I think that's pretty nice.
+
+[37:46] Caraflex, right? Uh I never remember. I don't remember the name either. But who is it that loved those? Was that uh was that Alex?
+
+[37:52] No, it was someone else. Who loved those things? Came in. Susie Cups. Yeah?
+
+[37:57] Yeah. Um okay. Uh I'll tell you what I did this week. So two weeks ago, I started trying to make uh Westphalian pumper nickel based on the rye baker's book. Uh and so uh in one day instead of in three days because I made it once in the three-day procedure, and I was like, to hell with this, I'm not gonna do that.
+
+[38:17] And I had a bunch of rye and I needed to clear up a some of my containers because I got a bunch of uh uh white Sonoma in, which is one of my favorite all time wheats. So anyway, so I was like, I'm gonna make more rye. So and I bought a giant pressure cooker to do it. So it's all about the pressure cooker. So instead of cooking for 24 hours, you cook it for I'm now up to about two hours and a half.
+
+[38:36] Uh because I I made full like um 1.75 kilo loaves of it. So uh the original one I did was I think 70% hydration, and then I did one with a sourdough starter just because the one without a sourdough starter, which is how uh they do it in the rye breakers book, it it molds quickly because there's no acidity to it until it molds. So I did one at like 80 something percent hydration with a sourdough, and it's still all in one day, you know what I mean? Uh and it was too blonde, right? So then I did it.
+
+[39:12] I figured the high water content made it so that it it wasn't browning as much in the oven. So I fascinated. I knocked it back down to 75, did it for two and a half hours. I bought a giant presto steam canner that's induction friendly. Real friend, because like all of the big ones are all aluminum, but most of them don't have uh an induction plate on the bottom, and within five years, no one's gonna have gas anymore.
+
+[39:33] They're 10 years, you know what I mean? So I'm like, I'm not gonna buy anything anymore that's not induction friendly. So this one's gotten an induction plate on. So anyway, it came out good. Although, you know what?
+
+[39:43] All the cheap Pullman pans have holes in the bottom of them now. Why? I don't know. What the hell? You know what I mean?
+
+[39:50] So then I was worried about moisture getting in, but it was it was fine. They do, yeah. The expensive ones don't. But the you know, the Amazon two two one pound Pullman pans for for like 26 bucks, which is what I went for. Holes.
+
+[40:04] Interesting. The hell's that about? So I think it's they say it's for release, but I don't need it. You know what it is? It's make it easier for them to mold.
+
+[40:10] And they turned it from a bug into a feature. It's gotta be. Oh, that makes sense. And they're a little thinner than the good way to look at it, actually. You solved it, you solved it.
+
+[40:17] Yeah, you know what the other thing is is that but that meant because there was holes in the bottom, I couldn't have them resting in the water. So I had to figure out a way to get it lifted off of this. But the the pan is 23 quarts. Huge. So like I just took uh I took a um one of my like uh Kaiser Bachform rings and stuck that on the bottom and then stuck the trivet on top of it.
+
+[40:38] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, floated them uh above the sea of uh tumultuous 15p. By the way, here's another trick. Uh that one has a jiggler weight. I'm a fan of Coon Recon.
+
+[40:48] Kun Recon has a little pressure thing, and when you want it to go all the way at pressure without leaking or even a little bit higher, you just fold up a kitchen rag, throw it over the valve, and then stick a lid on top of the kitchen rag so that it won't skitter, and you can get another couple of PSI out of it. This one I 3D printed, I took a bunch of like quarter inch heck n hex nuts and 3D printed a holder. Uh uh weighed it so that it would go exactly to 20 PSI before it vented. So now I can make any pressure I want all the way up to 20. Yeah.
+
+[41:19] Yeah. Anyway. That's incredible. That's like your own commercial right now. Yeah, well, you know, that's how I I there's there hasn't been the piece of equipment that I won't modify for my own needs.
+
+[41:28] I know and wants. Um anyway. Do we have Quinn back or no? No. No.
+
+[41:33] Someone else is there. Can you hear me? Uh I can hear you, and we have apparently we also have a caller. Caller, you're on the air. Where's the colour, Quinn?
+
+[41:40] Oh, the caller was Quinn. Oh, well, that's fine. Quinn, you're on the air. What do you got? Uh we actually made uh Joshua's Master Lamon on Monday.
+
+[41:52] I got my dad the book for his birthday in October. Nice. Wait, so that's the one that's Alfredo adjacent. Although we did use Yes. Did you enjoy it?
+
+[42:06] Yeah, it was very good. Although we did use all the pecorino because we have some Ontario uh produced pecorino. You're one of those guys, Quinn. You're one of those guys. Recipe, recipe didn't work.
+
+[42:22] We did all these subs though. One star. I don't know. I can't have butter. Makes me sick.
+
+[42:29] Come on. One star. You're supposed to use a fresh lemon? I use dehydrated melon melon, uh dehydrated lemon uh crystals. Anyway, yeah, just joking with you, Clint.
+
+[42:43] Just messing around. Uh I'm glad it's glad it came out. So did your dad like the book? Yeah, he's really liking the book. And then I I almost had local Meyer lemon to use.
+
+[43:01] Yeah, but that's good because Meyer Lemon's different. Well, how would you adjust the how would you adjust it for my how much acidity for? Well, no, he he recommends Meyer. Okay. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[43:12] Oh, so it doesn't need the extra acidity. I don't think so. Okay. All right. You like the peppery note in that?
+
+[43:17] I do. Yeah, yeah. By the way, you like a coarsely, you like it cracked, you like you like you smack your pepper rather than grinding it for some of your recipes, right? No, I grind all of it. But you know, you said you coarse, you need to be really coarse.
+
+[43:30] You said that for the Carbonara. Did you see the uh for the Carbonara? The man kitchen uh I know you you give a number of turns for it. But yeah, but like in the Carbonara one. I want to know your your feelings about that.
+
+[43:41] I don't know. I bought it for a friend of mine for his wedding. It's incredible. Yeah? It's incredible.
+
+[43:46] It's the best because you just take it off and you load it quickly, especially if you're in a kitchen, and then um it just does the thing. It works every time. There's not like this fussing. I can go ch and then ratchet it up. It's great.
+
+[43:57] I believe your words in the Carbonara recipe were coarser than you think. Yes, I would agree. Yeah. Also, first of all, first of all, if you get nothing else from this book, like you are extremely consistent in the way that you make pasta. And I think what's interesting about it is actually it lends itself to any number of portions.
+
+[44:18] Interestingly, your standard portion size is uh half pound pasta. Uh like a standard make, your standard make. And that's good because a lot of people make for two people, and it's easy to double this up if you can double the price. I really wanted people to understand what it's supposed to be like. Because I think I think the idea that pasta is so simple is so wrong.
+
+[44:35] It comes, it can go so horribly wrong because you somebody at home doesn't understand like all of a sudden there's like ten people and you're making pasta for ten people and you don't even know how to make it for two. Right, right, right. So I really like the idea of like, well, learn how to make it for two and then keep scaling it up so you understand what it's supposed to taste like, so you know when you're right or wrong. Right, but you also like your recipes could easily be adapted down to one. Like if you wanted to do it like restaurant style where you were just like finishing a little bit, you know what I mean.
+
+[45:03] There's a lot of repetition in the book. When I talked to the publisher about that before we did it, even with the photos there, try to get it to be just like what it's supposed to look like. Not a lot of pretense in it. It's just like that's what you're going for. That's the right amount of condiment, that's the right amount of all these things.
+
+[45:17] What is a handful of cheese? What is a Glug of olive, all those things? Like it's just constantly the same. Even with measuring out the salt, all those things. One percent.
+
+[45:26] P.S. For those of you that still buy the book, but it's one percent. The answer for the book is one percent. I think I go higher, but I I you know what? I don't use enough, I don't I'm a more I'm gonna start doing it maybe your way.
+
+[45:37] Like because you know, right now the way I do it is I really only use the water. I usually go loose on the sauce, let the sauce firm up. And I don't really I what I usually I'll do the full pan drain, but I'll drain it over a saucepan in the sink so that I have a saucepan full of the water if I need to. But I think your way is better. I might just do it your way.
+
+[45:57] Where were you where you bring sauce over or water I should say to the sauce while you're doing it and then bring a little bit more if you need it and then I'll like like if if it's a real thick base like I'll I'll take it I'll dip it as it's cooking I'll take some and I'll I'll blend it in to get it and then I always just loosen the sauce a little bit and let it finish off. But in the book it's like I think a much more rigorous way to get it right which is always pull it two you know about two minutes early depends on how what the cook time depends on what the total cook time is. And you're always you're always checking it regardless. Right right it's always changing. Right.
+
+[46:30] And then uh and then a little water from depends on what it is but a little water in the pan to s start it up and then the stuff in and then finish it off and you have the water there to go with it makes sense. And I never do it that way but maybe I'll start. There you go. You know what I mean? There you go.
+
+[46:45] But uh it's smart because it is a way that you can then adjust up or down without having to change your flow too much. You know what I mean? Yeah and you're really paying attention to where you're where you're getting to so when you throw in a knob of butter you know exactly what it's gonna do. When you throw in cheese you know it's not gonna make it too tight or too loose. Knob's a funny word.
+
+[47:05] A knob well it is a knob of butter. Yeah yeah but it's kind of a funny word because you know it's have you always thought that or when I said that were you like this is a fucking funny thing. A knob. So hold on. We have some we have some pasta adjacent.
+
+[47:20] We have some questions that are adjacent, so let's get to them and then we'll get back to uh stuff. What was the other thing? Oh, you're before we do that, you like a relatively granular pesto. So as opposed to because I have to admit, here's another one. Maybe I'll try it your way.
+
+[47:39] I'm I'm a I just go ape in my like super smooth, and then I add texture other ways with like breadcrumbs, fried shallots, blah blah blah bah. But like just layer all that stuff. So I'll just I'll rip and pull things and then have kind of a puree and just keep adjusting. I just like don't like everything that tastes the same or even look the same. So I think that's just always in my head of that idea.
+
+[48:01] Yeah. I don't know. You should try the sun-dried tomato one. That's a sleeper. Yeah?
+
+[48:05] Yeah, that's really it's uh sun-dried tomato and almonds. It's actually really you got a lot of good nuts. What about your nut ragoo? The nut ragu is really cool. That was an accident.
+
+[48:13] I always um there's a bunch of recipes in the book that kind of remind me of um Chinese food in a in an interesting way, especially like the panchetta one I was just talking about. And I always see some well, I love Chinese food, first of all, American Chinese food. So I'm there's always some like tension that I'm always trying to like get to because I have a good understanding of Italian pasta and what you're supposed to do, and then familiar with how to respect it with other ideas that kind of get to that same place. But when I do that, it's always kind of on some like Asian territory, it feels like. So it seems like the sun-dried tomato kind of does that.
+
+[48:48] And like when you have the eggplant and the um like eggplant and basil, it really kind of brings out you're like, hmm, what is this? Or there's uh there's basically the pork and um chili kale ragu has fish sauce in it. And that's basically like some version in my head of like a dandan noodle. Yeah, but seriously. Fish sauce works in lesser and cuisine anyway.
+
+[49:11] Oh, I know, I know. I I mean, so works. So it works. Love it. Uh, you know, especially if it's cooked for a little bit.
+
+[49:16] I mean, I like it as a finisher. But I just put it in a, I just put it in a bolinese the other day in an event because I was trying to adjust it to get it something that was like a little funky. And I would have loved to have had like chicken livers to be able to start it off with, just kind of give that like barnyardy like you think you can hide chicken liver though? I feel you can hide fish. You can't, well, yeah, you can't.
+
+[49:35] I wasn't trying to hide it. I was trying to add something that was just kind of like made it more than the sum of the parts. You can't hide chicken liver, but definitely it does a thing that I would have looked for if I had it. And I would have put just trace amounts of it in there. So we had uh uh chef uh last week, two weeks ago, Alex can't Alex Camp on he hates angel hair pasta.
+
+[49:53] And I said that I like it because I think it can be great, yeah. Yeah, I grew up with uh Christmas Eve anchovy pasta, angel hair bread crumbs on top. Grew up with it, so I like it. And I also like it sometimes in a very creamy, you know, because it becomes a creamy thing. Totally.
+
+[50:09] He hated that. But John, can you guess what pasta shape uh he hates? It's the one that everyone should hate. It's the one we should uh outlaw start there. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[50:19] Quinn, you've seen the book, so no, you can't say anything. Actually, wait, wait. I don't I haven't seen this part. I have a guess. Okay, but you haven't seen it.
+
+[50:29] I have a guess. Okay. You didn't read the okay. All right. It's near the beginning of the book.
+
+[50:38] Give me your sure, give me your guess. As long as you're not cheating, give me your guess. No, not blue. What? Although, you know what?
+
+[50:47] I had like you know why bugatini is good? Because it's got a hole through it. It cooks. I just cooked it. It's a very difficult one to cook.
+
+[50:52] I cooked peachy yesterday. Impossible to cook. Yeah, no, it is. So it's not a good pasta. No, you need to get that.
+
+[50:58] That's a great fresh noodle. Yeah, right. Because you make you make like uh like a book, like another bucktini. You make a uh well, what's the one uh in the press? It's oh the one with the same as peachy, but in a press.
+
+[51:08] Yeah, torchino. Yeah, big. Right, but it's made with a softer flour. You know what I mean? And it's fresh.
+
+[51:15] But the the peachy, I was like, you can't, the outside is soup by the time the side. It's one of those when it's great, it's like you're going to a place and they have it like nested up and it's fresh and they made it. That's when it's the only reason I bought it was that on the package it said 22 minutes. I'm like, Well no, what was the what was the brand? I don't remember.
+
+[51:33] I don't remember. What's the pasta? It really said 22 minutes. 22 minutes. Imagine like, imagine like you put spaghetti in a grow ray.
+
+[51:43] No, no, I hold up. We got sidetracked. We're off on tangent. Uh Josh Warren. It's not pocketti, is it?
+
+[51:48] What? What? Oh, the one that's one of my favorite noodles. Which one's about to do it? I think you guys are just testing me, trying to throw me out of here.
+
+[51:55] No. CD? I don't know. I thought that's one of the best. I'll give you a hint.
+
+[52:00] He hates one that is classic for the hated classic for a not bow tie. He hates the bow tie. That's fair. I can get by on that. See?
+
+[52:10] It's not terrible. Campaign. Farfale. No, no. Good.
+
+[52:17] No one, everyone knows it. It's I mean, it sure is cute. But uh it doesn't cook right. What do you think? I mean, I never really thought about it.
+
+[52:25] Like uh like my go-to is any any, not the actual ones called radiator, but any spiral positive. If those cook well, they cook well, yeah. And the pinwheels cook. The only one that doesn't cook well every single time is farfale. It never works.
+
+[52:41] Unless you blast it and you overcome. You're like, the wings are the wings are ruined by the time the inside's gone. It's true. That's what you said in the in the thing. Yeah, maybe we should like cut them in half and then reboil them away.
+
+[52:51] Or the tricolore ones. Oh, you don't well, you come out against uh you come out against your colored pasta. Like either the flavor is bad or it's not there. What do you think of that one? Do you ever think you're correct?
+
+[53:01] But I used to it's beautiful. When I used to make pasta at home for whatever, I color it with ever, because it doesn't matter. Ketchup. Just dump ketchup in. Doesn't matter.
+
+[53:08] Literally, I would dump ketchup into the pasta because it doesn't matter. Dump ketchup into it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. I totally know what you're saying.
+
+[53:16] I've never had one where I've like, hmm. I mean, maybe saffron, sort of. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, but you would throw away so much of the saffron you're cooking on. Oh, another thing.
+
+[53:26] You are a gallon, a gallon of water to the half pound pasta. I'm assuming you don't need two gallons for a pound, but you want there to be at least a gallon of water and you want it tall, because you don't, you're you're anti-breaking the noodle, you're anti-anything like this. Well everyone should be. What about all these folks who are like the small amount of water people now? Like in other words, I mean that's fine if it doesn't uh stop boiling when you put it in there.
+
+[53:48] Just the same thing like blanching, right? I mean, that can be fine. And you're monitoring it and stirring it for the first minute, that's the most important thing, so it doesn't stick together. So I'm not I don't think it's the end of the world. For they're consciously doing it, then they're paying attention to it, that it's fine.
+
+[54:00] If you're just getting started in life and your hands haven't developed a lack of sensation yet, like eventually you should be able to quickly dip your hand into even boiling water and taste it to see what the temperature is. I'm not saying start from zero. Start with a spoon. But but people are gonna burn themselves on a spoon. I mean common sense applies.
+
+[54:23] But again, like remember I said in the back with doing recipes for two is you learn from messing up. Right. Same thing with burning yourself. Right, right. But you say there, get a feel.
+
+[54:33] Well, I don't know if you say it exactly like this, but you basically say get a feel for what this 1% water tastes like. And you can't really get a sense cold of what it's gonna taste like hot. Because the issue is is if you're doing this over a period of a couple of hours, you're gonna need to add more water and more salt eventually. So you need to know what it tastes like. Right, exactly.
+
+[54:53] So and you bring this up, which I think is like a good point, which is why pasta boilers are such a pain in the butt, aside from the foamy froth. How often do you skim those things? Uh well, you're talking about like the professional ones. Yeah. Well, I love it when you can you can regulate it so you can actually get fresh water coming into it.
+
+[55:06] And it floats the stuff off the top. Yeah, exactly. So you're never really having to deal with that. You just have to deal with always making sure somebody's actually putting salt in it. I remember which is an easier thing to deal with than like the scum, but but it's also like oh the Italians.
+
+[55:20] You would think that they would just have it so it would just do that, but it never just does that. It's like moped or Lamborghini. There's gonna be nothing in the middle. So it's just like and they all and they all break all the time. All the time.
+
+[55:31] I think I remember like even when I was in Italy, it's like, oh, you you shouldn't put salt in it. It's gonna like like make it rust out. I was like, are you kidding me right now? Okay. Like throw it away.
+
+[55:40] Like throw it away. What are you talking about? I forget like all cladd or someone used to be like, uh, put the salt in after it's boiling. I'm like, no, no, I'll get a new pan. If that's what you're telling me to do, I'll get a new pin.
+
+[55:52] Right. That checks. Yeah. Where do they get their salt? How do they get it in there?
+
+[56:00] Is this just MSG? Probably super high contents of their sauces, but they don't like salt the water or anything like that. That way they don't have to. It's a nightmare. It's a nightmare.
+
+[56:07] Nightmare, nightmare. Don't even make me talk about it. Uh we got three minutes. Let's get some questions. Uh uh, let's see.
+
+[56:12] Let's do we have a pasta question, but it's about fresh pasta. Hmm. Where is it, Quinn? What's the what's the name of the of the pasta question? Maddie.
+
+[56:23] Maddie. Hey, I work at a restaurant and we want to work on adapting our current pasta. They use a double zero flour based egg dough. So remember, double zero is just a grind. It's it's a grind.
+
+[56:34] It's not a protein content. So assuming you're using double zero pasta, but if it's Caputo, that stuff is designed specifically to have for how fine it is, have a relatively low damage starch so that you're not gonna have to use a wicked amount of hydration to get the dough. The whole trick is not having to add too much water to the dough, I would say, but also having a good bite to it. Whatever. But so uh double zero base flour egg dough, roughly uh 10% whole egg, 46 yol, uh 46% yolk.
+
+[57:04] That's a I can't read exactly what anyway, uh with some oil. Work with fresh flour. You want to work with fresh flour. You mostly do stuffed pasta. Uh love recommendations.
+
+[57:14] What wheats might be good? I'm a breadbaker at the restaurant and blessed to work with super local stone mill, has access to a tons of variety of wheat, so we can likely get our hands on anything that might be uh good in an egg dough. I think the problem is gonna be on a stone mill, anything that's gonna be fine enough to mimic what you're doing with a double zero is gonna have a lot of damaged stars. It's gonna take a lot of extra hydration. I think you could move to a coarser one where they if they can sift it and get rid of the fines.
+
+[57:42] I would recommend like a wit, like not maybe as fine. But how long does it take to develop a fresh pasta dough when you're not using fine when you're like an egg base when you're consistent one? I mean it's changing all the time, especially if you're working with all this different local stuff, so it's hard. Yeah, I don't know. I um you're at a restaurant, I think honestly the thing that I always it's kind of cheating, but it's the thing that I learned, which is we would freeze all of our pasas.
+
+[58:07] And I think that that creates some of the best like texture out of even a fresh pasta, which sounds crazy. You mean like free if to because it does something to the water migration? I think that there's a few more than a lot of things. I definitely believe that, even with like ravioli for sure. Like try that sometime at home, just like throw them and then cook them in a same thing with like Nokia.
+
+[58:25] It just it changes the entire idea. So on a sheet tray flat and then freeze them uh and then and then bag them afterwards. Don't try to bag things together and then freeze it flat fast. You want fast. Oh, speaking of which, I saw that you had your meatballs, you were doing your meatballs in a pan traditionally, but then I saw them on a sill pad.
+
+[58:42] So you also can oven them to pre-cook them. So smart. Come on, oven, oven those sons of guns. Yeah, totally. I mean, it would be great to be able to just like fry them, but you can't do that all the time.
+
+[58:50] But yeah, I think it works and then you just dump the fat in there. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[58:54] Uh and you know, you can get a fond in other way. You can cook a little bit. Oh, uh also, you don't you do dislike the uh no-boil noodle? Uh as far as lasagna lasagna. Yeah, I uh I had never used them until this book, but it didn't make sense to go that route of word like doing this, and then it's actually kind of amazing.
+
+[59:16] Oh, so you don't hate them, it's just not for the books. Yeah. I blew my mind because my like DiPalos made me buy some. I'm like, the hell with you! And I'm like, try it.
+
+[59:23] I'm like, you're you're talking about the ones I'm using in the book, right? The ones you're just like stacking in there and they just do their thing in the oven. Oh, yeah, but you said uh in the bechamel one, which is the one I read carefully, you're like, don't use no boil for this. It's wor it's been working. I just I just did four hotel pans the other day.
+
+[59:38] So fast. It was like, and I couldn't believe the text of it. Yeah, you soak them for a couple of minutes in warm water, lay them out, done. Yeah. I mean it's kind of crazy.
+
+[59:46] It's crazy business. It's like, yeah, it's like my mind bender. Um, Maddie, another thing, uh, another thing on on your when you're working with pasta, uh, even fresh, but especially if you're gonna do this, I worry about uh doughs that have like uh a lot of gluten in them that are have too much uh snap back. Because you want them to be you want them to have extensibility, but you don't want a lot of snap back, or they won't hold the I guess it's not as big a deal for like ravioli and whatnot, but they're not gonna hold their shape right if they have a lot of um snapback elasticity. So I would look for ones that are relatively higher in protein, but but whose gluten development doesn't isn't so uh elastic.
+
+[1:00:23] What do you think? I agree. Thank you very much. Buy the book at uh Kitchen Arts and Letters. It is called uh Six Seasons of Pasta.
+
+[1:00:35] Six Seasons of Pasta, a new a new way with pasta. A new way with everyone's favorite. A new way with everyone's favorites. Nailed it. A new a new way with everyone's favorite.
+
+[1:00:43] Uh come on again, please. We have a lot more to talk about. Cheers. Good to see you. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello, welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Harlow, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City, News Dan Studios with a special Thanksgiving episode of Classics in the Field with Matt Matt, Matt Sardwell from Kitchen Arts and Letters. How are you doing? I'm well, thank you. Thanks for having me back.
+
+[0:27] Hey, great. We also got uh John here in the studio. How you doing? Doing great, thanks. And rocking the panels behind me.
+
+[0:32] Joe Hazen. Hey, how are you? Yeah, we we do not have anyone on the West Coast today. So although I wish them a thanks, happy Thanksgiving, they can just crack off that side of our country and float out into the ocean. Except for Quinn, who's already on an island and is already floated out to the ocean.
+
+[0:48] Besides, he's Canadian. He he already had his Canada Day or whatever in the heck that is, where they pretend that it's Thanksgiving and like maybe eat a turkey. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
+
+[0:58] Uh so look, we have a whole bunch of questions. So rather than uh doing, you know, j well just randomly shooting the breeze, let's focus. First of all, we have a for those of you that I don't know, if you haven't tuned in before, uh Matt Sartwell is uh the fearless uh leader of Kitchen Arts and Letters, which is the only real bookstore where you should buy a cookbook. It might look there are other great ones, West Coast used cook cookbooks, many, like I love I love them all. Uh, you know, Lizzie, you know, Bon, all those folks, great people.
+
+[1:31] But uh, you should go to Kitchen Arts and Letters if you've never done so. Let me put it that way. And this maybe not the only. You know, our favorite. There are a lot of great people in this field, and we're happy to uh to send people to to people like to like Lizardi when we don't have what they need.
+
+[1:45] Um, I think the world is a bigger, better place when there are more specialty stores like ours. So yeah, yeah. Uh hey, John, do you when you're buying something, do you like to buy it from people who know what they're talking about and can give you real recommendations rather than just agglomerate a bunch of slop off the internet and spew it back at you? Occasionally, yes. Yeah.
+
+[2:06] No, yeah, most of the time. Yeah. Wouldn't it be great if there was a a cookbook resource that was like that? Where could I go? I don't know.
+
+[2:12] Matt, you have any ideas? Well, we're trying something like that. Yeah, we're giving it a shot. Uh you know, I you you sort of get stuck with my opinion or a few of my uh my colleagues' opinions, but yeah. Not true, actually, because you always give caveats for whatever is your opinion or what you don't know and other people's opinions as well.
+
+[2:30] You're like Harold McGee that way. You're very you're very open to other people's opinions and interpretations. Well, when you're a bookseller, you have to be. I mean, you you there is no like one true book, religious convictions aside. Um you have to be looking for that person who was just like standing on a different hill and looking in a different direction.
+
+[2:52] Uh that's what keeps the world interesting because otherwise you just have like one book in a section and you know, here's France, buy this one. Yeah, yeah. Back back. Well, remember when there was a whole I mean, there still is a whole lot of topics in English where I used to come to you all the time, you're like, no, sorry. Uh yeah, it doesn't exist.
+
+[3:09] But you know, that's the fun. Remember we used to, John, remember we used to do stump math. We used to try to stump them with stuff. Never stumped. No.
+
+[3:17] Unstumpable. Well, that's because my cheat code is to say there isn't a book. Oh, nice. Well, that's true though, but they're easy folk. Now, you know what?
+
+[3:27] Listen, they're beleaguered set these days. So, you know, no no blame. All right. So we do have one Thanksgiving, like specific Thanksgiving question, two kind of, right? So let's get to them first so that they're out of the way.
+
+[3:41] And then, Matt, you have an announcement to make regarding, you know, sure. Yeah. Holiday. Oh, right. Yes.
+
+[3:49] Or in general, though, right? Going forward, a club? Yeah. Yeah, I can do it now. We'll do it now.
+
+[3:54] Um we've been running a cookbook club for several years, uh, in which Annette Tomey, a former colleague of yours, uh, has been selecting books and teaching people about them and doing uh online classes with uh often with the authors tuning in and uh adding their their two cents to the discussion about what it makes a book interesting and and revealing. So we're starting out now uh beginning in January with a kids session. This is uh six sessions over the course of three months, all focused on a single book. First book is Instant Ramen Kitchen by Peter Kim, which is a great book for kids to learn about riffing and about feeling comfortable in the kitchen uh doctoring up uh somebody else's food. So um it's available now on our website for sign up.
+
+[4:43] We thought about it as a holiday gift for our family. Parents can join in with their kids. It's one membership offer, it covers two people. So um two for one bogo. Yeah.
+
+[4:53] We should we should frame it that way. Yeah. But we didn't, we just wanted to get people in there. So um Annette is is amazing. She's partnering with uh Pam Abrams, who's a children's uh publishing consultant, really knows a lot about um about education and materials, but not in a dry academic way.
+
+[5:12] She's really roll up her sleeve and cook kind of person, too. Now, Joshua David Stein, who does cookbooks and children's books, does he do children's cooking books? Not that I'm aware of, but he is so prolific that you you could probably persuade me that he's done five books, though. So by the time we're done with this podcast, if we called in now, by the time we're done with this podcast, he would have I I pay, I try to pay close attention to any book that's got his name on it because I think he really elevates uh a lot of people's work. Um but I'm not aware of a straight up kids' cookbook from him.
+
+[5:43] I think there was a storybook. So uh this reminds me, PS, uh, we were talking beforehand that one of my first, in fact, probably the first cookbook was by Julie Eisenhower, who you pointed out. I thought it was one of President Eisenhower's kids, but actually married into the Eisenhower family. Yes, Julie Nixon Eisen. Yeah.
+
+[6:01] So she wrote a cookbook called uh Cookbook for Children. You know, they weren't so creative back in the 70s in 1975. I had a first edition copy probably two years later, and it was given to me, and that was one of the first cookbooks that I cooked out of. That's the cookbook that had the paper bag chicken recipe that I used to make weekly. Once a week, I would make a paper bag chicken.
+
+[6:21] I had my own, I would rub McCormick curry spice into the it was basically you just take the chicken, you rub butter all over the skin. So they she was a salt and pepper kind of. It was it was a 70s. Yeah. And I put curry powder on.
+
+[6:36] That was my, you know. Your riff. My riff. And I can't remember whether I can't remember whether she put paprika on the recipe as well. Because, you know, whenever something's not going to brown right back in the 70s, they'd be like, why don't you just put some paprika on?
+
+[6:47] Because that's what they used to do. Uh and you know, you stuff it in a bag and you put it, I believe, at 375, but it could have been 350 because they were probably worried about kids laying in the bags. Because that's close. You know what I mean? Like anything over 375, a kid puts a bag in the oven if you're not watching it.
+
+[7:01] If you're not watching it, yeah. You know what I mean? If it gets too close, especially remember all those other smaller 70s ovens that would get too close to the to the top. You know what I mean? Anyway.
+
+[7:09] And so that's where I got. And then, you know, apparently, someday, I know we've talked about it before, you and I, but there's got to be a history of paperbag cookery. There is the earliest one I have was by someone who it turns out was a complete charlatan. I don't even know if he was related to Alexis Sawyer, but called himself the grandson or s son of Alexis Sawyer in r in England and wrote a book on paperbag cooking that I own, a small tome in the, I would say 1910, 1911. Oh, I've never seen that.
+
+[7:46] I'll go look it up. But if he he was basically like, you could cook everything in a bag. And he was trying to sell the bags. You know how like, you know, when you came on last time and we're talking about um oh Mrs. Marshall?
+
+[7:55] Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, everyone would have all they would have their book and they would use that as a way to sell their objects and or their like personal self to people. So it's an interesting. I guess, you know, some things never changed. That's how people do now.
+
+[8:08] Maybe Georgia Pacific should start thinking about a cookbook. Sell sell paper and paper bags, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, back then I think uh, you know, he was worried a lot about uh and people still are about additives to their paper, right? Yeah.
+
+[8:21] And so he was like, Mine won't cause you to smell like tar and death. Something like this. Yeah, well, and those were the days before a lot of those things were regulated. So yeah, you probably really took your chances. When you were reading old books, Matt, and they always talk about how everything is adulterated and how there's chalk in the milk and stuff, don't you take that with a grain of salt?
+
+[8:39] Because like I'm sure there were people who did that, but I doubt that it was ever as widespread as like, you know, the the Jacob Reese days of like where they're posing people in in pits of squalor. You know what I mean? Like to try to make a point. Well, but at the same time, so much food was locally produced. So um, you know, bread and flour additives in small bakeries.
+
+[9:02] I mean, that was a big pitch with uh with industrialized bread baking was that these were in conditions that were monitored and and these comp giant companies were were offering pure ingredients. And how exactly prevalent it was is, you know, I don't know enough to say, but it was enough of a theme that it had to be on people's minds that um somebody was using chalk or you know, ground eggshells or filling things out. Um the modern version of this is like the anti-twinkie book where they're like, do you know that they use titanium dioxide and explosives and paint come on, dude. You know what I mean? They use water to make dynamite.
+
+[9:45] You know what I mean? It's like, come on, people. You know what I mean? Well, I mean, that was I mean, in the dairy supply too. Um, as dairies were kept on the fringes of cities and and they were being crowded in, animals were kept in ever more squalid conditions.
+
+[10:00] And that caused problems in in the milk supply. My grandmother almost died in the 1940s because they got milk from a dairy that was like trying to hang on on the edge of the town they lived in. And yeah, no, I'm not saying that these horror anything that can be done horrible, someone has done. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[10:19] And to this day, you know what I mean? It's just, I don't know. It just seems that uh especially among like uh upper middle and middle class white writers of a certain era. There is a lot of hand wringing about what happens among the lower classes that often remember the the history of the five points, right? There's all this writing about five points, but for those of you who don't know, it's not just a brewery and it's not just from gangs in New York.
+
+[10:44] It was a real neighborhood downtown that was leveled and they built a bunch of courthouses on top of it. There's one street left where there's an interesting Thai grocery store in New York, if you ever go Moscow. And you can, if you stand just right and squint, you can kind of feel what it was like to be one on one of those little old streets back in the day where the five points was. But I don't know, for since I was a small child, all the writing about it was how awful, how terrible, crime ridden, death, putre pu putrescence everywhere. And then they did a bunch of uh archaeology of the area, and they're like, hey, people really lived here.
+
+[11:19] You know what I mean? Real people lived here, had real lives, weren't all like, you know, cutting each other's throats left and right. You know what I mean? It's like uh I don't know. I I just have a very I have a very jaundic view of writing of that era by outsiders.
+
+[11:33] I'm sorry about it. No, I I think that's a fair criticism. Uh the fear that stocks the public mind, whether it's in the 19th century or in the 21st century, um, a lot of it is a product of, you know, one story getting told over and over again. Um and, you know, somebody got shot on this place and that that happened, and you know, there's a secure somebody poses a security guard at a at a cash machine and held up people. I mean, those stories are scary, so they get told.
+
+[12:06] We alert. There's something in our animal mind that compels us to alert uh other members of our species to danger. Yeah. Um it's like when we were kids, it was razor blades and apples. Yeah.
+
+[12:16] Which how do you gonna put well you can put a razor blade in an apple? It doesn't happen. It doesn't happen. Did you guys hear a couple years ago somebody putting uh sewing needles and strawberries in Australia? That did happen.
+
+[12:27] What kind of what size sewing needle fits in a strawberry? How big are the strawberries? Maybe they broke them up. How do you stick a sewing needle into a strawberry? I don't know, man.
+
+[12:37] This actually happened. This makes drisk like these are like five times bigger than a Driscoll. These are the world's biggest strawberries or the world's tiniest needles. Okay. Or you sure it happened?
+
+[12:48] Or it's not one of these people who have what's that uh what's that phageia where you eat needles, pins and needles. There's there's people who you see the x-rays of their stuff their stomachs and still with like things. Yeah. Sure, one of them. It's like it wasn't me, dude.
+
+[13:00] It was the strawberries. You can look it up. I'm looking it up. All right. Back to Thanksgiving.
+
+[13:05] Uh B Dunn writes in. I'm cooking two Thanksgivings. Everyone should cook two Thanksgivings. Not me. You do one?
+
+[13:12] Not even this year I'm not even doing one. Oh, really? Yeah. Anti, or just don't want to feed don't feel like too many people, too many special diets. It's easier to go out.
+
+[13:20] Really? Yeah. Huh. So where are you going out? We're going to Dirty French.
+
+[13:24] Yeah. They could accommodate 10 people and special diets, and they were great about it. So you know who used to go out every Thanksgiving, never cooked the Thanksgiving? Maria Guanashelli, my old editor. Legend.
+
+[13:35] Uh publishing legend, Maria Guarnicelli. Every year would go to Jean George for Thanksgiving. And she loved it. I'm not surprised. I've never been out for Thanksgiving.
+
+[13:45] Never. Not once. I've always been at a home. I'm not going to my home. So I'm not doing much cooking.
+
+[13:51] I'm just doing the Parker House rolls this year. But I'm going to my mom's family, so I will have my mom stuffing. So that's good. You know what I mean? Um anyway.
+
+[13:58] Uh but I like cooking two Thanksgivings, especially if I'm not gonna if if I'm gonna do the first Thanksgiving, it's fine. But if I'm someone else is doing the first Thanksgiving, I like to have my Thanksgiving as well. So I will also cook the turkey the way I want it. I'll make the stuffing the way I want it, the cranberry sauce. Are you a strained or an unstrained?
+
+[14:17] Non strained. Non strained. Non strained. You strain? No, I'm saying strained.
+
+[14:22] Yeah, some people strain it. Some people they'll cook it and then they'll put it through like a a tammy, as we used to say, and get rid of all the skins and then just gel it by in a can at that point. I did that last year for a Times cranberry tart recipe. And the flavor was great, but I thought to myself at the end, never again. No, hell yeah.
+
+[14:40] One time life experience. No, don't do it. Orange in the cranberry or no orange in the cranberry. Uh yeah, I like orange. I I like it or raw sauce.
+
+[14:47] So just pulverize it with cranberries and some orange and a little sugar. Man, so peel or no peel in the orange. Yeah. Uh I've never done raw. Huh.
+
+[14:57] I like it. And how long does it take for the sugar to melt down in raw? Or do you like make it the diet the night before? And then it just all kind of together. Yeah.
+
+[15:05] Yeah. I am a traditional cook. Every time I try to mess with it by even like slight additions, although I like it, kind of like I used to add a little vanilla to it. I think it's a mistake. Yeah, that wouldn't have occurred to me.
+
+[15:17] It's a mistake. Okay. Uh it's good. I don't think it's better. Does that make sense?
+
+[15:24] I still add a pinch of salt to it though. I mean, come on. Yeah. You know what I mean? Pinch of salt.
+
+[15:28] But most other flavorings that you add with the exception of uh some orange, yeah. I haven't enjoyed the I I don't think it adds to the to the effect, to the overall effect. Um anyway, so I had something about that strain. Oh, uh, I think we already mentioned this one once on Classics in the Field, but the uh cranberry pudding recipe, although I make it at Christmas time, is also good Thanksgiving. If you've never made a traditional English steamed pudding, it's not that hard.
+
+[15:58] If you get like a you don't even technically need a pudding mold, but especially if you have a sealed pot, like a pressure cooker. Don't pressure cook it, but you know, something sealed so that it's not going to evaporate over time. Um, it's fun to make one at least once in your life and feel like you're reading, you know, some Dickens book. Uh you ever do a steamed pudding? I have not.
+
+[16:16] Steamed puddings are fun. And there are ones that are made from raw. This one's made from bread crumbs. So it's it's relatively foolproof. Uh it's a little sweet.
+
+[16:25] So you might want to cut back the sugar because it's it's a a steamed bread pudding with cranberries in it. Duh. And then it's got uh a grammar, I think it's no cranberry glaze, and then a hard sauce, which is just butter and sugar. And there's some sort of, I think, flaming grammarnier in it or something like this from the cookbook's best desserts from 1987, something like this. You know what I mean?
+
+[16:50] Uh you can look it up on the internet, I think. I think. Uh, anyway, be done is cooking two Thanksgivings. One traditional, unbound uh one traditional and one unbound by tradition. I would like to take my usual stuffing, sourdough bread, mild Italian sausage, fresh apple dried, uh cherries, sage, rosemary thyme, and turkey stock.
+
+[17:06] Sage rosemary and thyme, or as we call it, poultry seasoning, poultry seasoning, uh, and turkey stock from the first Thanksgiving and be able to press it into a small cake. I think the texture of a crab cake. I was thinking about adding egg whites as a binder. Do you think that would work or just use another binder? Yeah, why not?
+
+[17:22] Right? I mean, crab cakes are bound typically with egg on. Are they not? Yeah. I've I've seen plenty of stuffings that have a little egg in them.
+
+[17:30] Yeah. And most crab cakes don't really have much crab in them anyway. They're basically, they're basically binder. What are your feelings on bread and a crab cake? Bread and clams is fine.
+
+[17:39] Like a stuffed clam being heavy on bread is fine because that much of those big clams chopped up, too chewy. Crab man. Come on. Minimal. What do you think?
+
+[17:48] I think crab is delicate. I the less breading the better. Ding, ding, ding. Uh all right. Uh and finally, if you were going to reimagine Thanksgiving in a modern way, uh, without worrying about it being what people know as Thanksgiving, what would you make?
+
+[18:01] You know what? I just love that meal so much. I wouldn't make the same stuff. I just would cook the turkey not whole. I mean, like I would, you know, the turkey, the best way to do it is to do one traditional and then, or if you're fast, like I always take the bones out of the back and break it open in the back because no one cares about that.
+
+[18:17] That stuff never gets browned anyway. So, you know, you can flay the oysters out if you want them, fine. Do whatever you want, but cut the back out of that turkey. It does not matter. And then you have those extra bones for a stock.
+
+[18:28] If you do nothing else, I ever say, cut the back out of the turkey, open it up, it'll still look like a turkey, even if you don't take the rest of the bones out like I do. Even if you don't want to make a stuffing plug and heat the stuffing plug beforehand and then drape the boned-out flesh of the turkey over the stuffing plug so that it cooks from both sides and is still shaped like a turkey. Even if you don't want to do that, just cut the back out. John, right? Yeah, 100%.
+
+[18:51] And it's not the full benefit speed that you get from spatch cocking, but it will help. You know what I mean? Uh I mean, spatch cocking is the fastest. But if you cook one turkey of moderate size, don't cook a giant 85 billion pound turkey. Cook two smaller turkeys.
+
+[19:05] Okay, because you can actually stick them side by side in your oven at that point, right? But the real best way is cook one small turkey, normal looking, and joint one and fry it. Deep fry it. Yeah. Chicken fried turkey.
+
+[19:18] Because you can cut the pieces. What were you gonna say? What was your favorite second turkey? Well, you should just always have a second turkey to make sure there's leftover sandwiches. That's also true.
+
+[19:25] Ding ding ding, right? Yeah. Anyway, just do two turkeys. Yeah. Two smaller turkeys.
+
+[19:29] Smaller turkey cooks better than a bigger turkey every day of the week. Anyone else, uh non-traditional Thanksgiving stuff? Anything you I'm not one of these people by way, we've had this discussion many times. I love turkey. If I walk into somebody's house for Thanksgiving and it doesn't smell like turkey, I know immediately.
+
+[19:45] It's not like you can substitute some other bird, and I'm like, oh, what is that? Like, don't have me walk into your house unless you tell me ahead of time. I love all of the other poultries. I just need to know before I go that I'm not gonna have turkey because if I open the door and it doesn't smell exactly like turkey, I'm gonna be like, oh no. You know what I mean?
+
+[20:07] I'm going to the store right after this and buying myself a turkey. You know what I mean? I love turkey. Just because it's overcooked a lot doesn't make it a bad bird. You with me?
+
+[20:17] Yeah. And I'm a dark meat guy, so I always have more room for error. One more, if there's any butchers listening, one more pitch for going back 50, 60, 70, 80 years to when you could still get turkeys with, and this is before my time, but I'm told it's true, where they remove the tendons prior to cooking. You have to do it when the bird is being slaughtered. They have a special thing that you can when they take the feet off of it.
+
+[20:44] If you get a bird with the foot on still, the thought, you can do the trick that like a game person, you know, a hunter can show you how to remove the tendons. But they used to sell detended turkeys. And come on. I mean, just please. The the cookbook recommendations are like, well, you can remove them after it's cooked.
+
+[21:06] No, you can't. You rip the whole thing, please. You know what I mean? That's like uh remember, remember back in the day, maybe you don't, I think we've had this discussion where veal's expensive and some people don't eat it. Asubuko is one of God's great dishes.
+
+[21:20] And so people used to make, I used to make like turkey asapuka, where you get the big turkey legs and you cut them. But the the trick was always you had to tie them as though they were uh a veal shank and then cook them, and you had to pull the tendons after cooking because there was no viable way to get them out. Remember any of this? No. No?
+
+[21:36] Did anyone else do this? No. No. I lived in a different 70s, apparently. All right.
+
+[21:42] Any other Thanksgiving recommendation recommendations for B Dunn? Non-traditional Thanksgivings? No? No. All right.
+
+[21:48] Well, let's uh let's get on to uh to classics. You want to do your classics after? You want to get the question? Let's do the question. That's just the question.
+
+[21:55] I think we should be fair to the people who wrote in. Correct. Elliot uh I I'm saying that to me, not to you. Obviously, like I typically don't. All right.
+
+[22:02] Uh Elliot from Berkeley writes in uh this is the whole question. Gin books. Uh, or more generally, books about individual spirits as relevant for cocktails. Uh I liked uh the understanding rum section and smugglers code, but want one for gin. Uh distilled uh sp uh spirits distilled also somehow is missing a gin chapter.
+
+[22:21] So um stand me on a desert island with one gin book, and I would go with uh Dave Broom's gin a manual, uh, which covers manufacture varieties that has tasting notes on a wide variety of gins from multiple countries. Um when was it published? It's been updated about three times. There's a new edition this year. Because you need to because the world is changing a lot.
+
+[22:47] Yeah. And um and Broom has done two other books. There's one on rum, uh called Rum Emanuel, and there's also whiskey emanual. He's I mean, whiskey was his m biggest earliest, right? That's uh that's where he writes most often in whiskey.
+
+[23:01] But gin is um uh the gin book I think is really strong. We did years ago when the first one came out. We did an event with him where he like did a tasting. He's really passionate, he's interested, he's smart, he detects subtleties um and can talk about them in a very detailed and appealing way. So um, you know, you can look for other books that might talk more about history.
+
+[23:25] There's um a most noble water, the uh Anastasia Miller and Jared Brown book. Jared is Sif Smith. Yeah. Um but that's history. So if you're looking for something like, you know, what's happening now, I would say gin are right.
+
+[23:40] Go broom. Yeah. Uh you like gin? I do. And yeah, what's your go-to?
+
+[23:45] I get something different every time. I feel that it's important to keep trying these new little things. So you like new styles and old styles. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[23:56] Um and our local liquor store pays attention to small producers. There's always sort of this rotating shelf. Some of them they have only one time. Um you ever do one of those? I try to have to name them.
+
+[24:11] I try to filter that out. Uh I am not strongly in flavor of the more floral gins. I know some people really love them. I don't generally like floral flavors in my food. So except vanilla.
+
+[24:26] So when it so you know, I don't even think of vanilla as a floral flavor because it's been A, it's the pod, and it's also been um you know fermented. Fermented. You know what I mean? But um I used to hate most flower water flavors, like orange rose, all these things. I'm become more tolerant of them in moderation as soon as they go over that line.
+
+[24:50] What are your feelings on lavender? It makes me feel like I'm licking the bottom of my grandmother's purse. Yeah. It's just I love that you've tried that. But the uh the the thing about lavender is is it's one of the more popular new gin flavors.
+
+[25:05] I I'm aware of that. Yeah. Yeah. I find it's um the issue is and I had this problem back at Booker and Dax is that it's extremely polarizing. So if you don't you should I say this with all tasting it you go out and have like 20, 30, 40 people taste something and if two thirds of or if even if a quarter of them are like ugh, right?
+
+[25:30] That would be fine. Except not everybody knows they don't like lavender because they don't know what lavender is. And so when you present a polarizing flavor that not everyone understands that they don't like it yet, that's when the problem happens. You know what I'm saying? Does that make sense?
+
+[25:48] Like some polarizing flavors everyone knows whether they like them or they don't right like uh what's a what's a common polarized cilantro's most people know whether or not they like or dislike cilantro because they've been exposed to it. Uh lavender not so much necessarily you'd think that they would but they don't yeah that that surprises me in a way I feel like maybe because I'm so prone to avoid it I see it wherever it appears. Right. But in other words like I think this I think there are people who hate it whenever they taste it but they don't necessarily know that it's lavender. And so if someone says there's lavender in this, they're not like, oh, I hate that.
+
+[26:20] You know what I mean? They just have it and they they're like, oh, I hated that. But without the research into what the lavender was. I had this happen at a drank at Booker and Dax. I was like, never again.
+
+[26:29] Never again will I put it. It wasn't my drink, obviously, because I wouldn't use lavender, but I allowed the drink to happen. It was a good drink. It's called the Sherbet. It tasted like uh like a flower sherbet.
+
+[26:43] You know what I mean? That's a that's a uh a confection that I feel is gone the gone by the wayside. Sherbert. Yeah. Or Sherbet.
+
+[26:51] But how why what what yeah, but in the 70s it was pronounced Sherbert. I don't know why. Yeah, I don't either. I mean, I grew up saying it that way too. Yeah.
+
+[26:59] Yeah. Why? It's not spelled that way. It's not, yeah. Other things that are mispronounced, I get flack for constantly from my family, like coupon, which apparently is pronounced coupon.
+
+[27:11] Anyway. Uh all right. So Jason L says, hey Matt, uh, I absolutely love Kitchen Arts and Letters and the Classics in the Field podcast episodes. I am looking for a gift from my brother-in-law. He wants a book on Spanish cuisine, ideally in Spanish and a useful recipe book for a home cook.
+
+[27:27] Do you have any recommendations in this general direction? Hey, uh, Jason, thank you for the for the shout out. Um, that makes me less than happy to have to say I don't really know anything that does that job, at least in Spanish. Um certainly that we have here that there's not much that's distributed in the United States. Uh there's a the big sort of tome in Spain is uh book that translates to roughly 1080 recipes uh by the Ortegos.
+
+[27:54] Um and there is a translation of that book from Fiden. I don't really recommend that book because it is so uh it's just a recipe dump. It has no context for anything. It doesn't tell you where in the country it comes from. It doesn't tell you, you know, is it a really common dish?
+
+[28:14] Is it a really unusual dish? It's just contextless, and that always frustrates the hell out of me. Um Claudia Roden did a beautiful book called The Food of Spain about 15 years ago. Um it's pretty comprehensive, it has a lot of history, not available in Spanish, as far as I know. It uh shockingly has just gone up to $75, which I think is a suicide move by the publisher, but um it is a really worthwhile book.
+
+[28:44] Uh might be found secondhand. And then um relevant to something I'll be talking about when we get to classics in the field. There's a series called Culinaria that has books on individual countries. There is a Spanish volume. Uh that is completely the opposite of the 1080 recipes book.
+
+[29:02] It is mostly uh regional stories and culture and occasional recipes, really more for illustrating a point than to trying to be comprehensive. And I think that would be a great book. It's not in print anymore, but it's not hard to find online. Secondhand. Speaking of recipe dump, do you have dump meals, the series?
+
+[29:22] No. I was I was late to know about that. People were making jokes about it. Uh, my staff was making jokes about something, and I I really thought I was gonna have to have a conversation about what was appropriate conversation for the work until I realized what it was. And I I I don't know how anybody made the move to popularize that term.
+
+[29:43] Yeah. I mean, uh, great sense of irony. I think she made some good money off that. That's from what I hear, yeah. Dump meals.
+
+[29:49] I forget her name. I don't think I ever knew it. She has she had like a series of them. There's a whole series of dump meal books, and I think we bought one back in the day and had uh nostalgia's sister uh make one of these recipes and then call in. And then apparently, I don't even know, because I don't know what I'm saying as I say it.
+
+[30:07] Apparently, I just like eviscerated her over the air on the technique she used to make this dump meal, and she never she never did a roving correspondent thing again. I don't know. The great Kathy Mitchell. Kathy Mitchell. Yeah.
+
+[30:21] The dumpstress. Yeah. Nice. All right. Uh from Wizmerd, question for Matt or any other qualified folks, but apparently Matt.
+
+[30:29] Matt's the most qualified one here, obviously. I'm very impressed by what Japanese uh people refer to as parfaits. Uh whenever anyone says parfait, I just have the Eddie Murphy as the donkey from Shrek. Everybody everybody love parfait. That's just close to my head.
+
+[30:42] I can't get it out. Thanks, Wismer, for that one. Uh they're often themed to uh region or season. So for those of you who don't know, a it's a Japanese parfait is like the same thing you would think of as a parfait in the glass with the layered with ice cream and fruit and some crunchy stuff, but like ballistic, like huge amounts of stuff, like very like highly presented, fancy looking parfait. So nothing that you would have gotten at an American lunch counter back in the day.
+
+[31:09] Anyway, um so they're often themed to region or season. Uh they also uh usually hit as many textures as possible while still maintaining a balance and cohesive whole. Usually there's ice cream, fresh fruits, something springy like emoji and or a jelly, something crunchy, a syrup, a cream, and maybe more, what's not to love, and are there any cookbooks or even just photo books on the subject of Japanese parfaits? So I went looking for this because I had no idea that this there was this sort of specialization within uh current Japanese culinary culture. I f couldn't find anything in English.
+
+[31:41] Is there a Kakigori book? You know, the shave ice one, the uh the non-ice cream equivalent. Not that I'm aware of. Is there a Hawaiian Shave Ice cookbook? Not that I'm aware of.
+
+[31:44] All right. So go back to what you're finishing. So there are books in Japanese that are out there that would probably suffice as picture books. They're not easy to find in the U.S. I went to Kinokania, which is a great resource.
+
+[32:02] Love that place. Uh for a lot of imported Asian books. They didn't have anything with the word parfait on the title. I did find stuff on eBay and bouncing around on uh the evil uh empire. And it's really hard to evaluate what I see there.
+
+[32:21] So I unfortunately can't provide much guidance. On the other hand, it sounds like WizMerd has a pretty damn good handle on what this is. I think just wants a coffee table book. Yeah. I mean, if it's if it's just because they're inspiring, then you go get something in Japanese and don't worry about the language.
+
+[32:38] But in terms of what I used to do actually for Japanese cocktail stuff. You'd go to Kinikanuya. Oh, it's right on it used to be like closer to the public library branch, but now it's across the street from Bryant Park. You go in, ignore the regular book section. Ignore I mean it's fine.
+
+[32:55] It's good. Whatever. Ignore, go downstairs and go to the Japanese section, and then just figure out where your section is. So for me, it was cocktail, and then just like sift through, like sift through it. You know what I mean?
+
+[33:08] Um that's is that what you did? That's what I yeah, I haven't been I actually haven't been to the new location. Um but yeah, the it's a it's a phenomenal resource. They they also have things from other countries in Asia, although Japan is their is their real strength. Also, good good stationary.
+
+[33:24] Do you like stationery? No, I don't write people on it. They have good state, they have a very good pen. If you like pens, pencils, scissors, and pencil cases. And they got the cafeteria upstairs, right?
+
+[33:37] Yeah. Uh it used to be Zaya, Zaya, I think, shut and was repurchased. So Zaya was a small like onigiri and like a cold fried chicken with shredded cabbage store. It also had buns. It was a bakery.
+
+[33:51] They did like a milkbread. And they had, I think, three or so locations that I had been buying Onigiri from my son Booker since he was born. Uh they merged with a cream puff company called Beard Papa. And then uh I think kind of went out of business. It got rebought.
+
+[34:09] And so they but they think they changed their Onigiri recipe. But there's still there's still a cafeteria, I think, up there. But that used to be my weekly. Uh we would go. Yeah, we went there once.
+
+[34:17] It was good. Yeah. You know, you go go free ice skating at Bryant Park, go across the street, go to Kini Kanoya, go upstairs, get a you know, cold jumbo fried chicken sandwich, shredded cabbage. That's where I learned that shredded cabbage is good on a on a cold-fried chicken sandwich. You know why?
+
+[34:33] Crunchy. Yeah. You know what cold-fried chicken is not? Crunchy. Crunchy.
+
+[34:37] That's what it has lost. It has lost its crunchiness. Truth. It's like it's like foundation makeup for cold-fried chicken. Anyway, uh all right.
+
+[34:47] Uh Maddie says, uh, I have one for this if you don't. Well, we may have the same thing. That would be crazy. If we do, it'll be crazy. All right.
+
+[34:57] Uh Maddie writes in my in-laws just moved to Cape Cod. So I've, you know, my family's been going to Cape Cod for forever. Anyway, uh, my in-laws just moved to Cape Cod, and I'd love to get them a couple of cookbooks that cover Cape Cod or broader New England cooking/slash ingredients, slash cuisine, historical class, or classic, modern niche. Would love any recommendations. What do you got?
+
+[35:16] Uh I got Province Town Seafood Cookbook by Howard Mitchell. Oh no, I don't have that one, but so I got another one for you. Go ahead. Okay. So this is um I wrote the date down here.
+
+[35:25] Uh 1975. There's a paperback edition on the market that has a introduction by Bardane. Um if you're gonna be on Cape Cod and you're not paying attention to seafood, you should really just, you know. Move to Charlestown. What do you what are you doing?
+
+[35:40] Um it's it's a great opinionated uh cookbook. It feeds in a huge amount of history. And it's talking about like the hurricanes that took out the wharfs and uh how the early Puritans were horrified by these loose living people who lived on the tip of the Cape, and it talks about the history of the you know, the fishing fleets and the American whole American seafood industry. Um the recipes are pretty old school. I mean, they're you know, there's nothing fancy about this.
+
+[36:15] Um there's a lot of breading, maybe more breading than some of us would like, but it's um it is indisputably of a place. Um when you go to this is not a cookbook, but when you go to Cape Cod to the outer cape, right, which means you know, the out closer to closer to you know, Pete Town, all this stuff. If you're renting, right, but you want to do the whole Cape Lobster thing, and let's knock into the argument yes, the further north you go, the better the lobsters are. Hard bottom lobsters, cold or lobster. I understand it's water, blah blah la.
+
+[36:47] Okay. Uh but if like you're in between Well Fleet and Truro, let's say, and you're like I say, you're renting, uh, or you just don't feel like you want to go through cooking the whole lobster thing, but you want the lobster dinner, go to a place like Hatches, right? Uh, you go in, you pick out your lobster, whatever size you want, and then they have the big pressure steamers there, and they'll just cook them for you. And then you take them home. You tell them when you want it, they'll put your lobster aside, you tell them when you want it, you'll come, you pick it up hot, you take it to your hotel, eat it on the beach, go out on the rocks, which is really outside, is the best place to eat a lobster.
+
+[37:22] You know what I mean? With just the bodies spraying all over, all over you, and you know what I mean? It's like it eating lobster should be a visceral, disgusting. If you're sitting across from me and I'm eating a lobster, be aware that my dinner will become a part of your outfit. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[37:38] Anyway, the book that I have, I don't actually own this, but my stepfather uh has been a surf caster in Cape Cod since, you know, like forever. He's at this point now that he's uh in his 70s. He's kind of like the old man of the beach. Uh and whenever he goes to Cape Cod, which is constantly, he does all the only things he really does are sleep, sometimes eat meals, and fish. And uh he swears by there was an old uh famous fisherman who died in 2012, I think, named um uh Dave Pops Mash, M-A-S-C-H, uh, who ran a school for uh at risk kids called the uh Penices Island School, and had for a while worked at Woods Hole, but he was a famous uh he was a famous like fisher uh guy.
+
+[38:30] He wrote uh for uh on the water magazine, and he was a Harvard graduate. And although I don't have the book, like he he he is beloved in my family. And his recipe for bluefish, Pop Smash, uh Pop's Mash uh bluefish is the only recipe for bluefish that my parents will make. And they also use it for for stripers. So the two main fish you get there are stripers and blues.
+
+[38:52] And he wrote a book uh that I think was self-published earlier, but was published by a real press uh in 2007 called Cooking the Catch. And it is a local classics in the field, uh cooking the catch. And it's all recipes and lore from that area where he lived since at least he was of college age and spent the rest of his life there on the water fishing. And on the cover of the book, um, you'll see he has two very different fish, both bass, a striper and a black bass. And so it's like, you know, he was that's kind of like an uh like a slang A to Z, you know what I mean, on cookery.
+
+[39:29] So that's the that's my recommendation for that very local. Yeah, I didn't know about this book. It sounds like I had to track it down. Yeah. If I can add two to this, not super specific to Cape Cod specifically.
+
+[39:42] But um I was trying to do some research into this back, I don't know, like 10 years ago and couldn't find very much, and so kind of zoomed out and did more like New England style cooking. So Matthew Jennings' um homegrown was really good, I thought, and uh Jeremy Sewell's The New England Kitchen was good, uh, and I'm sure his cookbook, The Row 34 Cookbook, is good for that as well. So just my two cents on that. How's the can I know we're gonna talk about another m sometimes New England person later, but uh how was the Knopf New England book? I I have it, but I don't remember it as well as I remember like the spoon bread book that uh Neil put out.
+
+[40:23] I'm trying to remember who wrote the Knopf New England book. I own it, but it it then didn't make a huge impression on me one way or the other. It was not, I think, one of the definitive books. There's a time life New England that's good. Um I don't know.
+
+[40:37] I cannot picture that the Wasn't there one? I think there was one, though. Maybe I'm just manufacturing it in my head. There's a Pacific Northwest one. There is a um, you know, upper Midwest one.
+
+[40:49] John, can you see if there was a Knopf uh Knopf Cooks American was the series. Yeah, which we which is spotty but good, right? I think for the most part they they got terrific people to do it. It's just in some cases, like with the Pacific Northwest book, it was trying to define an area that was where the definition was a little more slippery. Right.
+
+[41:11] That there was an emerging culinary movement by chefs to define a regional cuisine. But having grown up in that part of the world, I could tell you that there really weren't that many dishes that you could sort of reliably figure would be on everybody's table once a week or anything like that. It was just too diverse. Too recent. You like that spoonbread one that Bill Neal did?
+
+[41:32] Yes. Yeah. Is it I mean, I loved it. Is it still currently considered good? It is.
+
+[41:37] I mean, it's not in print anymore. Biscuits, spoonbread. Yeah, and something. And sweet potato pie. Sweet potato pie.
+
+[41:44] Yeah. Um, I mean, that taught me a lot about biscuits that I had no idea. And, you know, my grandmother had come from Missouri, and I thought I knew about Southern Biscuits, but clearly she was keeping a lot of secrets or just got out of Missouri too soon. So uh yeah, I think it's uh I think that's a very strong book. Yeah.
+
+[42:03] Uh all right. This is a really cool series that I've never heard about. What? Yeah. That's back when old man Knock was sailing the ship.
+
+[42:10] I love these titles. He's dead already? I think he was dead by then. That was J that was Judith Jones. Oh, really?
+
+[42:16] Yeah. Makes sense too. I was just saying it because uh who used to say that. McGee used to say stuff like that. He wouldn't say it like that because he doesn't talk that way.
+
+[42:25] Um, and this is another one for you. I'm gonna give it to you, even though it's not this has been in our list for a while for Sherry. Uh I have a friend who's a fairly experienced home cook, just retired, is planning his post-retirement life. He's had a lifelong dream of going to culinary schools, planning to enroll in the culinary arts program. Uh he's been experimenting with sous vide recently, also an avid deep sea fisherman, lives in LA.
+
+[42:48] Uh so wants like uh media recommendations, but also book recommendations and things that expose uh him to new techniques and ingredients. So I'm passing the book section of this to you. So I would I saw a list of things in there. I would say food lab would be an obvious choice. Also Nick Sharma's flavor equation, uh, which is a great exploration of flavor theories across cultures.
+
+[43:16] Yeah, all right. Uh all right, and see if they see if there's any other oh, let me I'll hit now. You know what? Let's do your classics and then we'll we'll hit some of these ones that we want to hit on the way out before uh before we go. Okay.
+
+[43:26] What'd you bring? So first thing I brought is Simple Cooking by John Thorne. Uh this began oops, uh, as um some short pieces, little pamphlets that he published while he was living in Boston. He got a feature in the New York Times, and he began publishing a newsletter, sort of before there was Substack, before there were blogs. He, and like Ed Baer, who did the art of eating, made a living uh publishing a quarterly newsletter about food.
+
+[43:56] Um he's really curious intellectually. And curious, right? And I mean, uh a character. His his palate tends to run pretty predictably American. Um he's not gonna be investigating, you know uh tongue tacos or uh onagiri.
+
+[44:19] No, he's also got a bit of a francophile situation, right? Or is a francophone anyway. At least I get that impression that he can speak. I don't know about that part. Um honestly, he's I mean, most of the stuff that he's he's landing on is I think, you know, there's a New England cast.
+
+[44:35] He wrote a couple of his books while he was living in in Castine in Maine. And um he I think produced six books overall. Simple Cooking is the first. I think it's a great introduction to his work. Are any of these essays also in Pot on the Fire or Serious Pig?
+
+[44:51] No, they were sequential, derived uh from what he had done in the newsletter. And by the time Simple Cooking had came out, he he'd been writing the new newsletter for maybe five or six years. So he had a lot going on. He th as the books went along, he became a little prosier and perhaps a little more opinionated. Um but initially with Simple Cooking, he said, my goal as a cook has always been not so much to attain some specific sense of mastery as to be able to just go into the kitchen, take up what I find there and make a meal of it.
+
+[45:25] So a lot of the things that he spends time on are pretty simple, like oatmeal or macaroni and cheese, or uh, you know, a kale and potato soup. Beans, toast. Um I bought two of his books from you decades ago or from the store decades ago. Uh is he still alive, by the way? As far as I can tell, I was I was curious about that because he's not gonna be a kid.
+
+[45:48] Uh he was very friendly with Nock Waxman, his wife, Matt Lewis Thorne actually worked at Kitchen Arts and Letters long before I came along. Um, and so uh there was uh a bond there, but they um they seem to have sort of retired quietly and um don't seem to be active and not much evident media evidence out there. I you know he's he's not a fuss budget, but he can sort of lose himself in a recipe in figuring things out. It's an interesting mix of like uh a feat and working class, erudite and down to earth at the same time. Like I I love his I love the work.
+
+[46:34] I can consume three essays and then I need to stop for a while and go back because it's like you know what I mean? It's like very like woven and dense. You know what I mean? Uh yeah, he he doesn't manage to pack a lot in there. It's sort of like MFK Fisher.
+
+[46:48] I mean, you can spend a lot of time and you're suddenly on the periphery of this discussion, a lot of other things are sort of glimmering into uh into greater definition, uh, even though he's really just talking about, you know, what to do with your potatoes. Um you can probably get one book and come away with a pretty strong sense of what makes Thorne interesting. And if you, you know, if you get really swept up on it, there are other choices. There's serious pig, there's Outlook cook, there's pot on the fire. Yeah, I have Pot on the Fire and Serious Pig.
+
+[47:25] Pot on the Fire is the one that's got the most of the bean stuff, right? Uh no, sorry. Serious, Sirius Pig is the one with most of the bean stuff, right? Yeah, Pot on the Fire. I couldn't find my copy, but that's the one with toast.
+
+[47:39] And I don't know if so, like I had to do a um, I had to do like a video where I was reviewing all these toasters recently. I can't say a lot about it because I'm not supposed to, but I was reviewing a lot of toasters. And I said to the producer, I was like, Oh, have you read uh Quintessential Toast, which is, you know, the essay ever written on toast by Thorne. And that's in Pot on the Fire. And I she's like, no.
+
+[48:04] And I went back and I reread it, and I realized is that when I read it originally, was prior to when you could research everything on the internet. And so one of the things that uh he likes to do is put uh like a quote at the beginning of all of not all, but many of the articles or essays, whatever you want to call them, that are you know, from the past or usually very out in from left field crazy stuff. And the one in quintessential toast appears to be completely made up. And uh, I'll read it to you. Uh uh, well, I won't read it, it's very long.
+
+[48:42] So it's about the so Nigel Strangeways was a uh detective character, I believe, that was uh in a bunch of novels in like the 30s and maybe movies. Uh and so the Thorne made up a a story by about Nigel Strangway called Toaster Agonis from 1923, which according to the internet is before any of the Nigel Strangeways movies, and then has this entire thing about uh toast and dry dry toast. Uh, and especially because the whole thing about it is is that dry if you can make a dry toast that is good that doesn't have butter on it, then you truly mastered the art of toasting. That's the kind of theory, one of the theories of uh of of this uh of this thing, uh, of the whole thing. And so the the the premise of quintessential toast is that we don't toast right and we don't think about toasting properly.
+
+[49:36] We don't care about toasting enough. You know what I mean? And but then I uh you cannot find this quote because it doesn't exist. It made it up. And then so I looked at some of the other toast uh things that are seemed random.
+
+[49:48] So, you know, very random quotes, most of them real. So, like, isn't that odd? Where did this come from? The yeah, where where did this out of his head you mean? Yeah, I mean, just I don't know.
+
+[50:00] It seems like a huge risk. Right? I mean, not someone I I've never met him, but nothing else in his work suggests that he's a risk taker. That's really fascinating. Hey, anyone that can anyone that can hear me who has more time to research weird things, look it up, let me know.
+
+[50:20] Uh I mean, it's an interesting, it's an interesting quote, you know what I mean? Um so it starts with uh, you know, one of the buttered toast, said Mr. Jeffries. I suppose we might manage that. His voice trailed away, leaving in its wake a note of doubt, perhaps even mild alarm.
+
+[50:36] Indeed, he had taken on the appearance of someone reluctantly forced to the verge of a personal confidence. The thing is, he began he began hesitantly, Wilkins is such a dab hand at dry toast. And that's how the essay starts with this whole long quote about dry toast. Not real. Anyway, uh bizarre, right?
+
+[50:54] Totally unexpected. Yeah. All right. Next classic. Okay.
+
+[50:58] So jumping ahead on the holiday, a book called The Christmas Cook by William Moyce Weaver. Weaver is an American food historian. He's best known for his work on Pennsylvania Dutch. Yeah. A very early seedsaver.
+
+[51:13] Yes. Very committed to issues of gardening as well. This is a fascinating book. It, you know, it says three centuries of American Yule-tied sweets, and it really does go back into the 1700s, talking about traditions that different immigrant groups brought to the country, how they adapted to what was available here, how they adapted to community interactions. It's also really revealing about just how radically Christmas meal traditions have changed.
+
+[52:04] And I mean, this is just desserts, but they fit into a whole broader uh set of discussions about how Christmas was celebrated, whether it was ethical to celebrate Christmas. There were people who felt it was really just sort of almost sacrilegious to have a feast on the day. There were all kinds of different opinions, and they were at war with each other. And a lot of the, I mean, I only skimmed through it uh because I knew you were gonna come come on, but like a lot of uh, you know, a lot of the historical record that he's going through from the 19th century temperance is shot through a lot of it, and a lot of kind of religiosity and as you say, like, you know, uh why we're doing certain things is shot through it. He's got a very specific mindset of that, but it's it's interesting.
+
+[52:49] Um the scale of William Voice Weaver, who can sometimes really burrow so deep into the whole Pennsylvania Dutch and minutiae. Is this one on the more readable weaver side? Absolutely. Absolutely very engaging, and he's going to be talking about what was happening in Missouri and you know, and and Dutch settlers. So his geographic scope is very broad.
+
+[53:11] You clearly know that he has a deep acquaintance with Pennsylvania Dutch traditions and and other sort of you know closely associated religious movements, but he is, I think um making a big effort to cast a very wide net. And I think that the the breadth of that makes this all that much more compelling. And a whole chapter on uh Christmas recipes for people who didn't have money, can't not not necessarily just rich rich folks' Christmas recipes, which I thought was pretty interesting. Yes, because uh I mean rich people get documented better than poor people. True.
+
+[53:46] All right, so uh what's the next section? Okay. So I have a series of books called Culinaria. Ooh, the hardcover. Uh there were 12 books in this series.
+
+[53:58] Uh they began with a set uh called European specialties, which was a huge success. And um eventually followed up with volumes on the Caribbean, China, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Russia, Southeast Asia, Spain, and the United States. These are, as I think I said earlier, regional guides to the traditions within these countries. They talk about candy makers and cheesemongers, and they talk about uh holiday dishes, and they go through each country by region, and they have recipes, but the recipes are really there to demonstrate a particular tradition. It's not an attempt to be definitive, it's in it, but it is attempt to be really accurately descriptive.
+
+[54:48] They're well photographed and very well photographed. And when were they? Were they late 90s or early 2000s? Uh the first one appeared in 95. 95.
+
+[54:57] The they were done by a German publisher called Kohnemann, which um was already very successful as a photographic publisher. They did books on design and art and things like that. This series took off for them. They invested a lot in it, and it something that they did made them go bankrupt. So they were purchased by another German company called Ulman that kept it going.
+
+[55:25] Somebody had big dreams for this series. There were at points somebody had registered ISBNs for volumes on India, uh, which would have been great. Uh it was popping up on online for a while, but no evidence that it actually ever happened. Well, so I, you know, I always felt that this was, I mean, I was getting them when they were relatively new. So what it used to be is they they used to have these things called bookstores, like big ones, like borders, right?
+
+[55:53] Borders is gone, right? Gone. Gone. So borders was slightly different from Barnes and Noble, in that borders kind of built itself on this uh kind of discount section that they would have at the at the front of the store that you would go in. And what you would do is is that any town that you would walk into, you would go to the borders, you would go to the discount section and see which culinarias were in the discount section that you could buy for $2.
+
+[56:14] And that's the way that I got most of the ones I have, because they would just show up there. They are incredibly easy to spot because all of the colour covers are very punchy single color papers with an image overprinted on the top of it and the country title. So they're very easy to spot on a bookshelf. So as soon as you walked into a borders, I could just go like scan. Put it, beep, beep, beep, beep.
+
+[56:42] Yeah, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, culinary. Borders used to be used to be World War II airplanes, Hitler, and Culinaria was like that was that was all they really sold uh at at the front of the store. You know what I mean? Uh so it's amazing that didn't work. Yeah, right.
+
+[56:58] Uh so it's kind of like the history channel. We used to call it the Hitler Channel, because it was only World War II documentaries back in the day when they started. Anyways, so uh I thought they were a fantastic buy. I always thought it was uh uh an answer at that time to the Time Life series, which is my all-time favorite, you know, series we talked about. Umother amazing series.
+
+[57:16] I these are um I mean, uh you could wish that there was a volume in Mexico and on Brazil and on, you know, uh on Indonesia and on Vietnam. I mean, there could have been so much more to this. And unfortunately they just didn't make it. They always tried, I mean, even when the books were brand new, they were cheap. And I think that was their downfall is that they uh you could buy this like big 300-page book for 1995.
+
+[57:44] Yeah. And I think they doomed themselves. And are they still cheap? It varies a lot. Condition, most of them came out in several different formats.
+
+[57:52] The European volume came out in a European set came out in a single volume and a two-volume set. There were these smaller trim sizes that are about 30% of the size of the big ones. Those are the ones that have mostly the because those are the ones that were in borders. Yeah. And you can do pretty well as long as you're patient.
+
+[58:09] Don't you know don't feel like you have to have the big hardcover because these small ones will actually probably last longer. They're better bound. When you need something, people on eBay, don't buy the first one that comes up. Just put the surge hit up and just wait. Just chill on it.
+
+[58:22] Patience, patience is rewarded. Just chill on it. Uh all right. Uh are we are we missing anything? Or should I just wrap up with a recipe that someone asked for?
+
+[58:30] That's the stuff I brought. All right, all right. So let me see. I had a question in Nick from Vancouver said, uh, love the tomato BS. Thanks for the spec.
+
+[58:38] That's a non-alcoholic drink from the bar. Uh drink was a huge hit. Uh I assume I have a new one called Green Bean. That this and uh they assume that the green bean BS is similar. It is very similar, in fact, it's almost the identical drink, but you're you I use um pomegranate uh cordial instead of uh cranberry cordial, and I use green bean juice instead of uh instead of tomato juice, and add a little bit more wormwood uh tincture.
+
+[59:01] I'll tell you what it is. Uh first of all, I'll tell you how to make cranberry cordial because it's an inverse. I'm sorry, pomegranate cordial, it's an inverse of the cranberry. So cranberry has more acidity than sugar, and pomegranate has more sugar than acidity. So you get uh 17 uh 1,517 grams of pomegranate juice.
+
+[59:16] And what is that? That's exactly one forty-eight ounce uh palm wonderful uh jar, right? Uh you boil that down to 548 grams. Now it's at 50 bricks, right? Uh then you add 5.2 grams of citric acid, 2.6 grams of malic acid, and 15 drops of uh 8% succinct acid solution, and now you have pomegranate cordial.
+
+[59:39] Uh and then for the recipe, it oh, for the canned green beans, just buy canned green beans, which have their taste. The reason it's there is because it goes well with a rhubarb root. You can just put, even if you don't have a spinzall, you can just put the green beans, strain the juice, and put it into uh into a nut milk bag and just squeeze the ever-loving life out of it. And it'll be clear enough for this recipe. So it's uh one and a quarter ounces clan uh clarified green bean juice, uh, three-quarters of an ounce of rhubarb root, rhubarb root tinctured, three grams per 200.
+
+[1:00:07] Uh, that's an infusion, marigold petals, uh, three two hundred quarter ounce of that, uh, 15 drops of wormwood infusion, wormwood leaves, that's also a 3200, uh half ounce of reduced pomegranate, bar spoon of grapefruit oleosaccharum, make it the way you want. Three quarters of an ounce of poly D. You have to look on the look on whatever. Look on look, look, look me up. I've given the poly D recipe a million times.
+
+[1:00:27] Uh Matt, thanks so much for coming on. Thank you. It's always a pleasure. We'll have you back. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.
+
+[1:00:31] Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City New Stand Studios. Got uh Joe Hazenrock on the panels. How you doing? Hey, hey, hey, welcome.
+
+[0:22] Hey, and live from Los Angeles, well, from Los Angeles, but in our studio, taking the place of John today will be our special guest, Daniel Shentov. How you doing? I am wonderful. And uh, you know, food trucks, books, shoes, all that. But before we do that, moving on over to the uh what side is that?
+
+[0:38] The left coast. Uh we have no Nastasia the Hammer Lopez today, but we do have Jackie Molecules. How you doing? Yeah, I'm good. Nice to have the phone lines back.
+
+[0:48] Yeah, you know, phones, uh telecommunications, they're uh they're a good thing. And uh way on the upper left, uh, you know, past couple of weeks, we thought maybe the entire West Coast had cracked off finally and floated off into the ocean. You know, but uh anyway. Quinn, how you doing? I'm good.
+
+[1:06] Yeah? Nice. Hey, you sound nice. Everyone sounds bright and clear. Love it.
+
+[1:10] Uh all right. So uh, like I say, today, uh, no John. But uh before we get into our normal thing, uh, Daniel, so like just so people know, you can buy shoes from this man. You can hire this man's truck to come to your event and uh serve food the lime truck, right? That's correct.
+
+[1:28] Or and you s and you have the yakatori place as well, right? I do, yeah. Hatch. Yeah. So let me ask you a question about before we get into anything else, Yaktori.
+
+[1:36] What is your favorite Yakatori style dish? Uh Sukuna. Which one's that one? The chicken meatball. Chicken meatball.
+
+[1:42] My favorite is the chicken heart. Chicken heart, yeah. Chicken hearts are good. Yeah. I'm a chicken heart.
+
+[1:46] It's a lot of work to clean those hearts. Well, when you get them, you you cut off the little like uh little uh value, yeah, in the little pieces. Yeah. People get grossed out by the little flap doodle sticking out of it, or you just don't like the texture of it. I don't like the texture of it.
+
+[1:59] Yeah. But you still leave them like fundamentally whole. You're not a splay guy, right? Yeah, yeah, I'm not a splay guy. Yeah.
+
+[2:04] Now of the hearts. People who eat the heart want to see the heart. I see, I see. Yeah. How uh how like uh crispity do you get the outside of the hearts?
+
+[2:12] Like how much of a like a Yeah, I mean, you know, you're cooking with such hot texture, and then you're using you know, sugar to crystallize the outside. So I like I like texture. Um so we do get we got it pretty co pretty cooked. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[2:23] Yeah. I love hearts. Let me ask you this. In chick chicken heart, people very rarely get turkey hearts, so I won't get them into it. And when usually when you get a turkey heart, it's like you've pulled it out of the gravy mix, and so it's like, you know, it's pretty spent by the time you get it.
+
+[2:37] You know, no one I've never had someone be like, hey, here's a plate of turkey hearts. You know what I'm saying? I know what you're saying. Yeah. But like uh between duck and chicken, what's the heart of note?
+
+[2:48] Um I mean, just because I've eaten so many more chicken hearts, I would say the chicken heart. Uh, but I mean I'm sure the duck heart's good. I don't I don't know if I've actually had a duck heart. Oh, yeah, they're great. Okay.
+
+[2:59] Yeah. Uh here's another uh uh hot take. Uh Captain a beef heart, good musician, although no one really likes listening to Captain Beef Heart. Joe, does anyone like listening to Captain Beef Heart or we just respect him? Uh I mean, I like the I like I can't listen to a whole record.
+
+[3:15] Good. Yeah. What do you say? That's a good road trip. That's a good road trip album, you know.
+
+[3:19] Really? Road trip. I if I think so. You're like driving through like Appalachia or something. I don't know.
+
+[3:25] Through Appalachia. Okay. All right. And then so what is like, where are you driving when you're listening to all of your Zappa tunes then? Oh man.
+
+[3:37] It doesn't matter. That's that's like the best road trip music for me. You know, I kind of wish I had met him because he was so famously mean to interviewers. If they for those of you who don't know, Frank Zappa, look him up. But like uh, so like people would be like, I'm a fan, and he would be like, Okay, name your favorite song.
+
+[3:55] And they would be like, uh he's like, get get out. You suck, you're stupid, you're a dummy. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, respect in a way. You know what I mean?
+
+[4:05] Anyways. You should you should start doing interviews like that, Dave. I don't do interviews. No one ever asks me to go interview other places. You know what I mean?
+
+[4:12] It just doesn't happen. It doesn't come up much. Yeah. Um, how do we get on this? Oh, I don't beef heart, not my favorite heart to eat.
+
+[4:22] It's just so big. And I don't want I want like the bite-sizedness of the of the chicken heart, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Were you with me on that? You want beef heart.
+
+[4:30] You want to hear a funny heart story? Uh okay, but Quinn Quinn's going against me. But give me the funny heart story. Okay, so on my food truck, we wanted to do a taco called Heart and Soul. And it'll be a Korean, you know.
+
+[4:40] Yeah. This is uh like kind of goji jong-based heart. For those of you that don't know the song, Google Heart and Soul. So we uh we have it on my food truck and it's raw, and the guy who runs the food truck commissary is like a 90-year-old man, no teeth. Uh his name is Rosmi.
+
+[4:59] We love him to death. And he walks onto my truck and he goes, What is this? And we go, it's beef heart. We're about to uh cook it and make tacos. And he just grabs it and eats it raw with his hand.
+
+[5:08] And then later was upset. Uh we gave him raw heart and had a very, very difficult time uh swallowing it. And it was a toothless man eat raw beef heart. I mean, it was it was a spectacle. I said it's quite the story.
+
+[5:21] Right. So we so what was the misunderstanding wherein he thought that it was not that it was cooked? I have no idea. Honestly, I was pretty surprised. And he always would come up with a cigarette on our truck, and we're like, hey man, you gotta get the out of here.
+
+[5:33] Oh my god. You gotta get that stuff out of here. Yeah. Well, what uh so but I we you still to this day don't know wh why he got upset with you or why he did it. Yeah, no, but he called us young punks and he helped me with my first food truck, and I appreciate it.
+
+[5:46] Of course, anyone's a young punk compared to him. Exactly. How was the uh how was the taco? The taco was delicious. It was it was a great one.
+
+[5:53] How thin were the uh beef art slices? We went um maybe like quarter inch cubes. Okay, cubes, cubes, cubes. All right, and what size tortilla are we talking about? Uh we're talking uh a standard five.
+
+[6:04] Fiverr. Now, can you Okay, but Quinn, before we get on the standard tortilla set and double, right? Because it's okay. Uh at the time we were doing doubles, yes. Now I don't.
+
+[6:12] Really? Yeah, yeah. Now I I custom uh worked with this uh tortilla manufacturer to make it a little bit more pliable. So we use a tiny bit of flour in there, which I don't know. It is what it is.
+
+[6:22] Yeah, I know. It's uh uh mixta. And uh it doesn't break. And so for me. No offense, people.
+
+[6:29] No offense. We like Casamigos. We like Mike Meldman. All right, yeah, go ahead. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[6:33] That was a joke, people, that you know, the big lawsuit about the agio, whatever. We won't get into it now. All right, so so now you're a single tortilla fellow. Yeah, we did it. It took a lot of work.
+
+[6:42] I I think I tasted tasted and made uh easily thousands of tortillas. But still rolling on fives. Still rolling on fives. Yeah, I like the fiver. Yeah.
+
+[6:50] Yeah. So what is the on a five, so a five inch tortilla is the perfect three taco situation, right? Yeah. And what do you feel like when people overload their tacos one a five? Um I don't let so we don't do like uh add onion cilantro kind of thing.
+
+[7:07] All my tacos are like composed dishes. So you're gonna eat it the way I give it to you, jerk. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I I I definitely don't want to say we invented the more modern taco but other than Rick Bayless we were probably the only ones charging more than five bucks a taco 15 years ago.
+
+[7:20] Yeah yeah yeah I haven't seen Rick in a long time I love Rick. Yeah weird. Yeah. Uh all right Quinn talk to me about beef heart. Oh yeah I think it's great for tartar.
+
+[7:33] I like a beef tart. Like how like like ground up? He likes it raw too and Rosby. He likes it raw yeah uh yeah no just dice like a fine dice. I mean that's like a I'm just gonna that's very you know what I'm saying.
+
+[7:50] You know what I mean? Well you remove all the like tendony bits like the the vascular wall I mean it's literally the str I mean like it's not physically the strongest muscle because that's your you know typically would be the the your butt but in terms of like the you know goes the whole time never never stops your heart is like that's it. You know what I mean? Well you know it only gets to stop a couple of times. You know what I mean?
+
+[8:15] With most of us. Uh all right. Uh there's beef art chili obviously is famous but I don't know that that actually needs to be made with heart or if that's just a thing. You know what I mean? Like every time I've had beef art chili which is not that many times I've been like this could be made with a different meat and I wouldn't be like I miss the heart because I don't taste the heart.
+
+[8:36] You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah chili is a is is a layered experience you know it's it you're not gonna get very much individual right that's like what does alligator tastes like. I don't know. Fried food.
+
+[8:47] Yeah. You know what I mean? Or sausage. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[8:49] What does a hot dog taste like hot dog spice and emulsified sausage, pretty much no matter what meat you make it out of. Totally. Unless the meat is so bad that you can taste how bad the meat is. Or if it's not made with meat at all. Right.
+
+[9:01] That's true. Is there have they made you know what I need to find a good uh one of these modern meat analog sage sausages? Is it who makes who makes the good one now? Uh, you know, I don't know. There's a little uh homemade sausage place on my like two blocks from my house, and it's in the right in the center of the Jewish community, and it's called Sausage Kitchen.
+
+[9:20] And I'm like, these guys must have picked the worst location ever, but they homemade sausage, and I I would recommend that place all day. But they make a they make a no meat that's sagey, a breakfasty. Oh, you want no meat. I need a no meat. I need to cook.
+
+[9:32] So Thanksgiving, which we can talk about, people, your Thanksgivings, right? But I invariably do tea two. You know what I mean? Like second Thanksgiving. This year I have to wait for my uh for my son to get home from Copenhagen.
+
+[9:45] So it's gonna be a late T2, but I gotta make my mom stuffing, but I have a boat ton of vegetarians coming too, and my mom stuffing isn't my mom's stuffing without sage sausage in it. So I need a meat free, and I'm not one of these guys, I don't want to make a BS one. You know what I mean? I would make a BS one and go with the classic. It's your mom's recipe.
+
+[10:01] Oh no, I'm making a I'm making two. Okay, okay. But I want the the yeah, I got I want the other one to also taste correct. You know what I mean? I mean, you can make your own Satan and sage it, and that would be pretty good.
+
+[10:13] Yeah, that's not time. I don't have time to be making my own sausage. I want to pay someone else. It's New York City, you can find anything here. You think so.
+
+[10:19] But you can't. You know what I mean? We've all been we've been ruined just like everyone else with uh, you know, online shopping. There's no brick and mortar like mom and pop vegan sausage place anymore. You know what I mean?
+
+[10:30] Not that there ever was. Not that there ever was. Oh, speaking of having to order things online. Have you had has any of you guys had this fancy peanut butter out of Michigan, kitsa or coatzah however you pronounce it? Michigan, so weird, using Virginia peanuts, weird, because they're God's peanut, but in peanut butter.
+
+[10:47] So I had to order a container. I don't know. It's it's gonna show up in the mail. I was wondering if any of you had some like pregaming on it for me. I I just got some mail order peanut butter.
+
+[10:56] Oh yeah, whose is it? It's uh it's the Kona Peanut Butter Company, they do a Kona coffee peanut butter. What does Hawaiian know about peanut butter? I'll tell you this is some of the best peanut butter I've ever had. Come on, really?
+
+[11:05] Yeah. Is it one of these sugar free jobs? Is Kotza one sugar free so I'm a little worried about it? No, I mean, uh I didn't taste too much sugar, but uh it's good. Yeah?
+
+[11:14] Yeah, yeah. Kona, Kona peanut butter. Yeah, Kona peanut butter. Uh huh. Distribution out of Las Vegas.
+
+[11:21] Okay. Okay. Like, you know, from like, you know, the like the most landlocked to the least landlocked, they did a change recently. It's easier to get the peanut butter now. Uh I would imagine.
+
+[11:31] I would imagine. So what what is your ideal peanut butter? What is your ideal like mass market peanut butter? Uh you know, I I like a thick, crunchy peanut butter. You're a crunchy person.
+
+[11:39] I like a I like texture. I'll I'll live for texture. I think texture and and everything is it really important. All right, I'm gonna tell you when I when I ordered this, that that was the big decision I had to make. There was two decisions I had to make.
+
+[11:50] One was was I gonna get their quote unquote organic brand, and I was like, nah, I don't care. I'm gonna get whatever their original brand was, because that's what I'm gonna buy. And then I was like, Do I go with the creamy or do I go with the crunchy? And I decided, maybe stupidly, that if I wanna see what they can do, I get the creamy. Okay.
+
+[12:08] And then if I love it, I'll get the crunchy. So it's it's a test. It's a test. I wanna I like I feel like the crunchiness, I feel like crunchy can hide some some flaws, like you know, like maybe some like tiny bit of grittiness or something that can be hidden better in a chunky machine than in a non-chunky. What do you think?
+
+[12:29] Like the shells? Imagine grind up, but these are but first of all, like what's your least favorite peanut? My least favorite peanut butter. No, peanut. Uh individual peanut.
+
+[12:39] Yeah. If someone serves you uh this kind of a peanut, I'm like, why did you and I Jack already knows because I think we've had this discussion on air. I mean, I think they're the the ones that are like blanch, unsalted. Oh, yeah, but I meant like the variety span I hate Spanish peanuts. Love Spanish people.
+
+[12:53] Uh the little ones with the within the biggest. With the skin that flies off. Yeah, what the hell is that? You don't like those? No, they're ridiculous.
+
+[12:58] I like those. They're poorly textured too. They have a bad texture. Yeah, I mean, the skins are a little frustrating. Yeah, and they're they're not like you're not they're not like ctung, they don't like go crazy in your mouth.
+
+[13:08] And like everyone is theoretically nostalgic for them because that's what's in Cracker Jack, right? I see. What about a boiled peanut? Love a boiled peanut. I love a boiled gas station boiled peanuts in the south.
+
+[13:18] Love it. You know what I mean? Takes you a while though. For the for those of you that never had a boiled peanut, like I need you to, um, before you place this thing in your mouth, to erase erase from your mind everything you think you know about peanuts and come at it fresh, right? That's like that's like uh to me, it's like uh the sardine problem, right?
+
+[13:39] So uh what's his name? James Beard, right? Famously wrote two things that are absurd. At least two things that are absurd. One is that the old school electric ovens, the ones with the little spiral snail shaped like uh elements, are better than gas ranges, I mean.
+
+[13:57] Just wrong. Just horrible pieces of equipment, terrible. He had them in his house. I've cooked I cooked on his once like a long time ago. Sucked.
+
+[14:03] You know what I mean? Legitimately bad piece of equipment. Second, is he said that tinned sardines are better than fresh sardines, and I argue both great. Mm-hmm. Not the same.
+
+[14:14] Not the same. Totally not the same. It's you know, it's like a salty briny or panned. Yeah. I mean, one is they're both equally not they're not equivalent.
+
+[14:25] Yeah, I would agree. Yeah. You know what I mean? You can't make a Caesar with a fresh sardine. Put sardines in your Caesar, not anchovies.
+
+[14:32] Nice. But uh you can't do anything. Look, I very rarely cook fresh anchovies because I don't get them. But sardines, I I love eating canned sardines. I grew up with it.
+
+[14:41] You know what I mean? But uh panned panned fresh sardines, deli I mean, whatever. I'm not gonna get into it. So what do you guys what do you guys do for Thanksgiving? Thanksgiving uh was a family affair.
+
+[14:53] It was my my daughter's first Thanksgiving, so we had to work around a nap time. Uh, when's nap time? You're one of those. Why don't you bend the nap time to the food? I'm just messing with it.
+
+[15:02] Oh, we do what you like. We did, but we had to maximize hours, so we could we got in a little late, which was which is a little unfortunate. Well, okay, so where was the Thanksgiving? Uh it was in Brentwood. Okay.
+
+[15:12] And did you do any of the cooking? Uh no, we made a pumpkin cheesecake. Oh. All right. How was it?
+
+[15:16] Uh delicious. My wife made it. Nice. I took the day off. Gram cracker?
+
+[15:20] Uh huh. Yeah, nice. Yeah, that's what it's like. Uh so are you like Dave Chang on that same coast who does not like pumpkin pie? And so you turned it into a cheesecake to mitigate the pumpkin piness?
+
+[15:31] I I think all things can be good if they're done correctly. A pumpkin pie, I've had terrible pumpkin pies, and I've had delightful pumpkin pies. I believe pumpkin pie requires whipped cream. Yeah. You need you need a sweet to offset the kind of spice.
+
+[15:44] Yeah, and the airiness for the I mean, even though like a good pumpkin pie, it's not necessarily like super dense, but it's just like, you know. I like a custard, like when they turn it into a kind of a custard and then they turn it into a pie. Yeah. Yeah, that works for me. I used to do a thing that was uh alternating, not a not a pumpkin cheesecake, alternating rings of cheesecake and pumpkin pie in one dessert, both with the graham cracker crust.
+
+[16:07] Like a bullseye. That's good. You're doing a mold or how are you gonna get you have to 3D printed rings and then you pipe into the rings the the two batters and you cook them like in a in a combi in a steve uh steam oven so that it's sets so that you can cook it all at the same time without either cracking the pumpkin or you know, overdoing the thing, and then you know, it's good. That's a complicated uh dessert. Yeah, you know, it uh complicated.
+
+[16:34] The thing is this is if you're already in the kitchen anyway, who cares? That's the thing about complicated or not, right? It's like if I'm already going to be in the kitchen anyway, what's another 20 steps? You know what I'm saying? I agree.
+
+[16:43] It's like uh it's it's when you didn't you you weren't gonna cook and someone's like, Can you make that thing that has 20 steps? And you're like, oh God. Because now I'm gonna be in the kitchen all day. So now I have to do a bunch of other stuff to make up for the you know what I mean? I know what you mean.
+
+[16:56] Yeah. Yeah. Um that's like, you know, people look at restaurant recipes and they're like, why is this so complicated? It's because the person's in the kitchen all day. What does it matter?
+
+[17:03] Yeah. You know what I mean? Like as long as the steps don't take a long time each, yeah. What does it matter? Yeah, right?
+
+[17:07] A little bit more active prep. Yeah. Yeah. Well, especially if it saves time at at uh at service. If you can finish the, you know, if you can uh cut down a couple of minutes when it comes time to fire that thing, you know.
+
+[17:18] It's a good day. Yeah. Half hour now to to save, you know, 15 minutes later, win. I uh I so whenever I'm doing uh expo, I also like to DJ. And a lot of times it it comes to a a colliding point where I either have to choose food or music, and so it's just dead silent in the restaurant until I catch up on tickets.
+
+[17:36] Well, that's the thing. It's it's incredibly hard. People don't respect anymore because everyone just has playlists. Yeah. But like actually looking at a room and trying to figure out what's going to come on next and never doing more than like two songs ahead.
+
+[17:49] Very hard. It's like a full-time thing. You know what I mean? Like you have to stop conversations in midstream. You have to be like Yeah.
+
+[17:55] No, it's literally like uh I need six of this all day. This is the vibe. You're like over here, over here. You know, but um when you do it. Table force from Oakland.
+
+[18:02] Table force, hit the loonies, hit the loonies. You know what I mean? Like when you do when you do get to do it right, you get to control the experience pretty, you know, holistically. Because like you're you're creating the vibe, the energy, the food, and it's like it's pretty beautiful. Yeah.
+
+[18:14] No, I like it. I used to I the only time I would do that was at Booker and Dax when all of the other people had gone home, because like Dave didn't let anyone mess with his uh I believe it was still iPods at the time. He would like hand iPods. They were already obsolete, but this way no one could mess with them. And then you would have to hit like shuffle, right?
+
+[18:32] So in the middle of uh, you know, in the at the wrong time of night, pavement would come on and you're like, not the right vibe, love pavement, you know what I mean? Not the right vibe. So eventually, like when I would go in late night, I would just start I just start playing stuff. Yeah, based on whoever was at the bar. You know, like they would mention something, I'd be like, okay.
+
+[18:51] And then we would like go with, you know, because you know, as long as you know a couple of tunes from every region of the of, you know, the country and the world, you can kinda you know, get with people anyway. Uh what about what about you over there? What do you what do you fools do for Thanksgiving? Well, I had um I had the, you know, I got shamed last year for this when my brother got shamed, but the the uh rotisserie chicken. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[19:15] The store store bought rotisserie chicken. But then I also went to my girlfriend's uh family's Thanksgiving, which was in Milwaukee this year. And that was more of a tr traditional spread. How long were you in Milwaukee? For two and a half days.
+
+[19:31] Did you go to German German town and go to some of the bars there? Or wherever they call that place? No, not really, but we did go to uh cops. You know co K-O-P-P-S? It's like a frozen custard and burger spot.
+
+[19:45] Like pretty legendary. I think from the 50s. Um, and then that was very good. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[19:50] All right. I would like to go back to Milwaukee. I think I might end up going back to Milwaukee again. I like Milwaukee. You know?
+
+[19:56] It's a good town. Went to Bryant's also. Do you know Bryant's cocktail bar? Maybe. Very old.
+
+[20:03] Been there, I think, for since I don't know, for 80 years or something crazy like that. And one of those bars which I love, where they don't have a menu, and they're just like, tell me what kind of cocktail you like, and we will give you some options. And did you say I like them delicious? Crunchy. Well I want my cocktail.
+
+[20:20] One answer for me. Yeah. Boozy bitter stirred. That's that's the only way for me. Really?
+
+[20:25] I'm always like uh I'm I just hate choice so much, man. I just hate choosing so much. It's my least favorite thing to do. Talking about this. Yeah.
+
+[20:36] So I wish there were no choices ever in any restaurant. Right? What a joy. Yeah. This is what's nice about catering, right?
+
+[20:44] It's like, hey, you're gonna get what you get. You don't get upset. I don't mind like if I see a bunch of things on the table, I can I can choose to pick something up. I'm not like paralyzed by my lack of the ability to, you know, I'm not like frozen and I can't like figure out what I want. You know what I mean?
+
+[20:58] But I don't know. No, my dream is like a c a cover charge at a restaurant. Just give me the cover charge and then start bringing me things. Yeah, do thrilled. The mistake, by the way, whenever there is a flat rate charge, yeah.
+
+[21:11] Yeah, well, I don't know. You know what? This is what I'm about to say is not true. I always go for the expensive crap. We talk about buffets or where are we going?
+
+[21:14] Okay. Or any sort of fixed situation where the amount of money I've paid is the amount of money I paid. Rather than getting what I would actually enjoy, I just go for the high-ticket items. I can't get it out of my system. Even though I'm in my 50s, I can't get it out of my system.
+
+[21:39] I'm just broken. Value. Value derived. Yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[21:42] I know what you mean. And I have to constantly re-jigger what that means. So like when I was a kid, it used to be like hit the shrimp. Hit the shrimp. But now shrimp is you know cheap.
+
+[21:52] So if you hit the shrimp, you're being an idiot. You know what I mean? Yeah. Hit the steak. My man Joe here had steak on Thanksgiving.
+
+[21:58] He paid a pretty penny. Delicious. Yeah? Yes, sir. Nine orchard, uh, the corner bar.
+
+[22:05] Which uh which steak was it? The ribeye. Yeah, ribeye. God's steak. You know, it's funny because like uh I I I couldn't really place the herbs that it was encrusted in to I had the leftover the next day, and it was it was an it's simple Herbe de Provence.
+
+[22:20] It was outstanding. Well, those uh even saw folks and even figured it out. And even the uh um the leftover was an aim, an A. Really? Yes.
+
+[22:33] How thick was said ribeye? Hmm, maybe a little taller than an inch. Yeah, yeah. Beautiful marbles. I mean, they're cut the cauliflower there is you have to have the cauliflower.
+
+[22:45] All right. I never had cauliflower like it. It's like this tall, long shoots that look like almost like parsley shoots with tiny little florets at the tip. And it's green with white blossoms. So like a cauliflower broccolini situation.
+
+[22:58] Kind of, yeah. And a tahini is all amazing. Yeah. I actually really I love cauliflower. Mm-hmm.
+
+[23:03] In like a chip. And a paper plane to drink. Oh, yeah, your paper plane man? Yeah. I like it.
+
+[23:07] I like I like it like Jack says. Boozy and bitter. You would think that because of like kind of what I do for a living that I would have converted to this cocktail with dinner situation, but I'm still a wine with dinner guy. I am too. Yeah.
+
+[23:21] Yeah. You know? That's how you could tell I'm not one of the kids. You know what I mean? Kids these days, you know.
+
+[23:27] Well, I have that three and a half year old that kind of gotta get it in quick and fast. Oh, I see. Front load. Yes. All right.
+
+[23:34] And uh Quinn, did you uh did you have a an airzat's can like uh uh in solidarity with your American brethren Thanksgiving situation or no? No, but I did have uh special dinner. I think I've uh uh talked myself in terms of uh crazy local sourcing. So take a guess what I cooked with. Uh I don't know.
+
+[24:02] I don't know, like stuff from Pamela Anderson's farm. No, you gotta get some of that though. British Columbia grown saffron. I mean, in the in the autumn? Like so they did what they got it in the spring?
+
+[24:19] I by the way, I've heard foraging people say you could go out and find crocuses and pick some, right? But I've never and will never do it. You know what I mean? Like how what how was it? This might be a greenhouse situation.
+
+[24:33] But it it was good. I mean, yeah, we made um Rizzo Milanese, turned out really nice. And uh I've got uh uh saffron gelato, of course, but we made it last night, so it's it's still chilling. All right. So d Daniel, on the saffron note, seeing as how before the show you told me that you are of Persian extraction.
+
+[24:54] Yes. So you have to have you something inside you has to die when someone says that they have saffron from British Columbia or that's grown in a greenhouse, right? I was uh I I was curious about what the nuances of the British Columbian uh saffron would be. Well, so let me know about what about per because I cause like the person who runs the museum of food and drink, is she's you know, Nasli is Persian, right? And she hates all other people, not hate, but she basically looks down her nose at all other folks' saffron, including, by the way, Southern Europeans.
+
+[25:26] What do you think? What what was I I I don't feel like I'm qualified to know the difference between let's say a Southern European saffron and all of it, what that could entail versus like uh Iranian or Saffron is an uh is an elusive ingredient because how how it plays into food is very unique. And then in Persian food, you're normally layering it with like other than rice, you're layering it with really unique things like a dessert with rose water and pistachio. Rose water is a strong flavor, right? And so saffron brings subtlety and kind of this interesting sweetness.
+
+[25:56] Um I've only really used Persian saffron. We buy it from the Persian market, they source it from Iran, and so I don't know uh about this American version of uh of saffron. Canadian, Canadian. Yeah, sorry, Canadian. Canadian version.
+
+[26:09] Yeah. Canadian, please but I will I will uh I will take your word for it. I and I've also I've always wanted to pick it. I mean, I the process seems quite complicated and difficult, and so maybe uh maybe I get it to take a shorter trip because I can't go back to Iran. Well, let me ask you this.
+
+[26:23] Is there and I don't remember, is there a special like like uh because you pick it other than drying it, is there some special process it goes through? Is it is it in other words, like you know, vanilla is a big mishi gas. No matter what you're gonna do, you know, you you can't just m pick a vanilla pot and get vanilla. You gotta sweat it and ferment it, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. But like with saffron, is it pretty much as long as you can get down there with the tweezers, you can have saffron.
+
+[26:53] I don't know. Sorry, wish I could tell you more. So what Quinn, what you need to do is you need to purchase some super high grade like Iranian or am I always wrong? Is it Iranian or Iranian? I was Iranian.
+
+[27:11] Couldn't you can make some more things with that too, you know? Yeah, my caregiver is from Iran. So she's gonna try and get me uh the the real deal hooked up. There you go. So and then the the correct thing always to do is side by side.
+
+[27:26] Side by side. Side by side. I was gonna say share it with the homies, but yeah. But like do me uh do me a favor, and when you do it, pick something relatively plain so that I can figure so that you can explain to the people what the actual saffron difference is. Do the basmati rice.
+
+[27:46] That's that's the OG. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So when you're doing it, uh, how long do you do you let it bloom before you does it really matter? Because you're gonna be boiling the heck, not boiling, but whatever you're gonna be doing to the rice.
+
+[27:57] 10 to 15 minutes. Yeah. Bloom out. Yeah, and that's uh you know, learn from from the women in my family. In like in in like tepid water?
+
+[28:05] Yeah, in uh yeah, exactly. Like maybe somewhere around uh like one four thirty. Yeah. Interesting. My caregiver said we put it with ice in the fridge.
+
+[28:19] Wow. I you know what? I have heard this for a long time. Is that to store it to use it on a daily basis? No, no.
+
+[28:27] Like again, she said we should have done it the night before. Well, what's the what's the reason for the what's the what's the reason for the yeah, for the ice. Again, just to like make the extraction slow, I guess. Like she didn't have a scientific explanation. No, but regardless of science, people always have a reason they do something.
+
+[28:50] It could just be we did this forever, but it's not like, you know, it's not like ice has been common for centuries. It's only been common for like maybe two centuries. You know what I mean? That's a good point. You know?
+
+[29:00] Yeah, again, yeah. So, but you know, I do know for a fact, because I've run the tests, that temperature of initial infusion does make a difference in mushrooms when you're gonna do dried mushrooms. And it is true that uh cooler uh pre-infusions up to a point, cooler pre-infusions do make for a better tasted, rehydrated shiitake, let's say. Oh, interesting. In the in the broth.
+
+[29:25] Uh I don't have in the top of my head because I didn't know we were gonna talk about this, the actual numbers of the tests that I ran to figure out um and I didn't run enough. I only ran like four temperatures, so I knew enough to knew that there was difference, but not enough tests to find like an optimal number of degrees. Um but yeah, it's very different. Like, so, like even like uh throwing them in a vacuum bag. Well, the way I did is I threw them in a vacuum bag and I circulated them at different temperatures for each for I forget a standard amount of time, hour, hour and a half, something like that.
+
+[29:57] Then uh took some, cooked them all to the same finished temperature and tested to see whether I could see a difference. And there was in the mushroom itself or in the in the water. In the broth. In the broth. Yeah.
+
+[30:08] Yeah. I haven't done the test with the actual mushroom. Yeah. Uh dry shiitakis bring so much good flavor. Yeah.
+
+[30:14] You know, that was the hardest part about cooking uh at the Yogatori restaurant. I went from food truck where in my opinion, it's like put a lot on a plate, a lot of flavors, really bold, tons of ingredients, to hey, you gotta make this thing with three ingredients. How are you gonna do that? You know, and it's like, yeah, you gotta work on temperatures. You gotta pick really powerful punches, you know, and that was uh that was quite a learning process.
+
+[30:34] So do you at the Yakutori place, do you do the quote unquote, even though the outside is actually cooked, the uh chicken sashimi on the breast? No, no way. Americans won't play that. Yeah, yeah. I won't play that either.
+
+[30:45] No. I've I had it with nostasia, and we were all like, I had it. Yeah, you know what I don't need it again. Yeah, I don't need it again. Yeah.
+
+[30:53] It's fine. Yeah, you know what I mean? I feel like horse is gonna be that way for myself. You you don't need the horse? I I mean I I think I'll try it, and then I think it'll be a one and done.
+
+[31:01] My man Jack, I'm sure, would eat the h heck out of a horse. Jack, how many horses have you eaten in your life? Uh uh full horse, come on, no. I've had I've had a lot of horse dishes, but maybe like five or six. Yeah.
+
+[31:13] And hi, and what was your what was your what was what was the what was the upshot? Was it a yay or hair that much? Couldn't help myself. Yeah. It's kind of an it's kind of uh honestly.
+
+[31:27] It's it's whatever. Yeah. I don't know. Do you love horse? I mean, who really loves it?
+
+[31:32] The taste of horse. I've never had it, but the French folks buy it. Really? No, I do love it. Yeah.
+
+[31:36] Well, the Italians, cavallo. Oh. Yeah. I uh the closest I came was when uh I went to Europe at the height of Mad Cow, and uh a lot of people were doing, for instance, I was in Germany and all of the sauerbratten was f from fair, meaning from you know, horse. And I was like, yeah, I don't know.
+
+[31:55] Yeah. Something weird about it. Yeah, I don't want to have my first German sauerbratten be horse. I want an act, I want the regular sauer brotten. You know what I mean?
+
+[32:06] Yeah. I don't really understand the idea of sauerbratten anyway. Like like extremely acidic meat to me seems like it's gonna be real stringy. So I've never made it myself, but I'm anxious. I want to try it, but I want to have the most legitimate version of it so that if I still am like I don't understand this product, then it's not on on the preparation.
+
+[32:28] It's on the it's on the fact that this product and I can't get together. Yeah. Sour horse. Well, normally it's it's not. It's but it they were doing it from horse because no one could eat beef at that time because Matt Cow's.
+
+[32:41] No, no, no, no, no. They cook it with with acid. So like, but like, you know, when you cook meat in a highly acidic environment, yeah, it gets all stringy and stuff, which is fine for certain, you know, like completely shredded things, but yeah, you do like larb or you know, there's a lot of Asian dishes. I mean, have you had chicken adobo or pork adobo? Yeah, one of the things.
+
+[33:02] Yeah, but that's not like more beef. It's not um it's gotta be because the y it's layered, right? In in adobo. We use adobo on my on my food truck and it's uh it's light. Yeah.
+
+[33:13] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh I don't know, listen, like I gotta get like a legit German to come in here with some sauer bratton. You gotta go to the sausage ki kitchen in Los Angeles, I'm telling you. Do you think they make that stuff?
+
+[33:23] I think they make that stuff. To me, the the uh the my favorite German thing is the uh is like the um the uh what do they call it uh the Schweinhoxer, the uh like like the pork pork knuckle that has been like braised and then fried off so it's like super crunchy and big. And you see, you just like it's like it's like you could sink a zeppelin with that stuff. It's just so heavy inside of you, you know what I mean? It's German winners, you know.
+
+[33:49] You gotta make it through. Dude, I love that food though. Like people are like, oh, German food. I'm like, no, man, that stuff's legit. Like Spitzel?
+
+[33:57] Legitimate food. You know what I mean? Uh I mean, anyway. Uh all right. So anything else from you guys from uh Thanksgiving before we uh move on to uh other things?
+
+[34:10] Nothing. Oh, no. I'll tell you this. After after we went off air last week, uh Matt Sartwell from Kitchen Arts and Letters, uh, I asked him what he was making. And I asked him specifically about cranberry sauce.
+
+[34:22] We didn't do this on air, right, Joe? And uh he's like, uh, I'm I'm doing uh I'm doing an uncooked cranberry sauce. And I was like, I was like, blasphemy. Uncooked cranberry sauce. And he's like, yeah, I'm gonna do an uncooked cranberry sauce.
+
+[34:37] And I looked more into it, and apparently this year, this um I forget her first name, but an NPR uh like you know, person of note, somebody Stanberg has for the past 30 or something years popularized every year this uncooked cranberry relish on NPR with where she grinds it in a meat grinder, which by the way, I actually did spoiler alert, I made her recipe. It's Mama Stanberg's recipe, which was her mother-in-law's recipe that she got from Craig Claiborne, but Craig Claiborne in 1959 was like, You're good. You can call it yours now, because like, you know, she did so much to popularize it. And you grind in a meat grinder cranberries, two cups, which is random. Did you know it's not a full package of cranberries?
+
+[35:20] Did cranberries used to be a pound a pack? Now they're 12 ounces a pack. Is this one of those things where they've ruined everything again? Or was it always 12 ounces a pack? You know what I mean?
+
+[35:30] Yeah, okay, okay, okay. Good, good, good. So it's not one of these, my daddy was a pound in a bag. You know what I mean? Wasn't that?
+
+[35:36] Okay. So anyway, so it's not a full bag. Uh it's it's uh two cups of cranberries, I think half a cup of sugar, three quarters a cup of sour cream, two tablespoons of uh prepared horseradish. She prefers the beet prepared horseradish, and here's the weird one, a small onion, right? And raw onion.
+
+[35:53] Yes. Which my wife hates, right? So, like, so I it's our this is an interesting one. Yeah, so what you and it gets weirder, ready? So what you do is is you take the cranberries and the onion and you're supposed to grind them together in a meat grinder.
+
+[36:06] Now, I don't know if any of you out here have ever used a meat grinder. Do you have a hand meat grinder? Is that what you're saying? So I ha I was like, I have a hand meat grinder at home. I have a number 10 porkart, stainless steel though, right?
+
+[36:16] Come on. Okay. And I got it for a different old recipe I was gonna make years ago. So I'm like, I'm game. So I put it in, but like two cups of cranberries and and one small onion, by the time it starts coming out of the front of my, first of all, she didn't specify which plate, ma'am.
+
+[36:33] Oh yeah. Ma'am. There are different size holes in the plate. You gotta tell me which plate to grind it through if you're gonna tell me to use a meat grinder. But anyway, so by the time I put the entire bunch of stuff into my meat grinder, it's just already coming out the front.
+
+[36:46] So I'm like, now what? Like half of them aren't even done at all. So in her recipe, she says, I guess you could use a food grinder. I mean, uh, a food uh, what's it called? Processor.
+
+[36:54] Yeah. But, you know, you gotta get the same chunky texture. Don't use a meat grinder. I'm here to tell you that if you if you think, even if you own a meat grinder, don't bust it out. It's just not enough.
+
+[36:59] If you were gonna make five times her recipe, sure, use the meat grinder. You know what I mean? And then you can do what everyone does, which is feed the feed the first part through again so that everything gets ground and then clean it out. But I feel like half the stuff was in my meat grinder, whatever. Then so you take the ground cranberries and uh onion, and then you put in the sour cream, uh, the sugar, and the horseradish, and then you stir it up, and here's the weird one.
+
+[37:31] She specifies plastic container, which I think is odd, put it in the freezer, freeze it solid as a rock, right? Solid, solid as a rock, nothing's changed it. Thrill is still hot. Anyway, freeze it solid, and then you thaw it, and you're supposed to serve it like barely thawed. And that's the thing.
+
+[37:48] And people, some people love it. Martha Stewart likes it. Coolio. Coolio wrote her uh like did it on his Coolio's cooking show and wrote like a like a rap uh bar about it. About, you know, uh, and I thought it was good, but my wife was like, No Ronnie.
+
+[38:06] This is like you don't ever make it again. So I'm gonna make it again, but maybe with horseradish. So that's my only that was my going back. I'm gonna go back and try it without the onion. I love raw onion.
+
+[38:17] Same. My wife detests it. It's it it sounds like some kind of Russian kind of motted like beet scenario. It's uh I don't know. I did use the red beet colored horseradish though.
+
+[38:31] Yeah, you know, uh, whatever, what's the brand we always get? The horseradish in the container that's too thin. Golds, golds, golds. A gold's horseradish. If anyone who's involved in the gold gold's horseradish business, now I I could, in my neighborhood, because I live in the Lower East Side, I could go get legit freshly ground horseradish whenever I want, right?
+
+[38:50] Because that's a privilege we have in the Lower East Side from the pickle guys, right? But golds, please. The jar, I don't own a spoon thin enough to get into your freaking jar. If you if your jar doesn't fit, it's like it's like whoever makes those tiny caper jars. Stop.
+
+[39:08] Stop. The two-finger system trying to get in there. It's ridiculous. So I have like You need a cocktail spoon. Yeah, I know, right?
+
+[39:16] I have that. I also have like uh like drug spatulas. Like stainless steel drug spatulas that you know that I use for acids, not for drugs at my house. Uh acids. Not that kind of acids, culinary acids.
+
+[39:31] So uh yeah, I'm sitting there using this like drug spatula to get the horseradish out. I'm like unnecessary. First of all, who wants such a tiny amount of horseradish? When I want horseradish, I want horseradish. You know what I mean?
+
+[39:42] On and on and on. Hey, they didn't do the horseradish sauce with their beef, did they? At the at the corner at the corner bar for the Thanksgiving. That would have been good. I love horseradish.
+
+[39:51] I had a great one last night. Did you? I did. Poor Charles. Yeah?
+
+[39:56] Yeah. Talk to me about it. Uh it was creamy. Uh you can get the texture of the horseradish, so they left it like not fully emulsified. And then um, I want to say there was a little bit of uh spice and pepper in there, maybe white pepper or black pepper, and they just did a good job of balancing because I love horseradish, and when you go too creamy and too sweet, it really ruins it.
+
+[40:14] And so it was horseradish for uh cream. You know, who doesn't like horseradish and I feel embarrassed to say it? My son decks. I'm hoping that he was he's I don't know, someday he'll someday he'll wake up and be like, I've been wrong. Horseradish is so good.
+
+[40:27] You know what I mean? It's tough, uh, huh? When the kids don't like what you like. I mean, I can tolerate most of it, but I just don't understand horse like I just don't understand it. I pray every day that my daughter will eat everything.
+
+[40:37] If she becomes one of those kids where it's grilled cheeses, I'm gonna listen, don't don't don't even think about it because you're not gonna be able to control it. Don't even think about it. You know what I mean? I feed my daughter every week. Don't give up hope, yeah.
+
+[40:48] You can't yeah, you can't give up hope. I didn't eat anything but like chicken parm until I was in my early twenties. Yeah, what a child really. And now now it's eggplant palm. Two Long Island Italian uh Sicilian family.
+
+[40:59] Yeah, yeah. So it's like it's now it's the it's the two parms and then horse, whale. It's like any endangered animal. Yeah. There you go.
+
+[41:07] Really, really broaden up in the spectrum. Yeah, yeah. He's like, he's like uh you got chicken palm? No. Egg?
+
+[41:14] No. Eggplant palm? No. Any endangered animal? No.
+
+[41:18] Yeah. How about puffin? You have any puffin? I'll take that. I I'll tell you what.
+
+[41:22] Some British Columbia saffron. Yeah, I I would totally eat a puffin, though. Uh that's one I would I would eat the heck out of a puffin. Listen, I get that they're cute. You know what?
+
+[41:31] They're the dumbest looking birds when they're flying. They look dumb when they're flying. You know what I mean? But the presentation, the the meat has to live like be presented in the beak. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[41:43] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, true. I mean, I did I had puffing in Iceland. It was, yeah. It wasn't the season for puffing when I was in Iceland.
+
+[41:51] I had the split lamb's head and I did not enjoy it. And by the way, coming from like, you know, the Italian side of my family, like Caput Cell, split lamb head is a thing. Like we eat it. I like it, right? So I'm not saying I don't like splits lamb's head.
+
+[42:07] I'm saying the one that I got in Iceland was uh no good. You know what I mean? Like lambhead. Good. You know what I mean?
+
+[42:15] My family, they're like, we'd fight over who would get the the stuff out of the well, inside the nasal. Anyway, I don't want to talk about it. Uh we're not talking about my family now. Um anyway. There's hope is my point.
+
+[42:27] You they it can always turn around. Yeah. You know what? You're lucky though. Your your kids uh are under this new regime where you're supposed to feed them everything now.
+
+[42:34] Okay, I I mean I literally every fr uh Sunday maker uh three different courses, and I've done bone marrow, leaks, uh I've done horseradish, I've done I'm trying to open her up to a lot of different things. Yeah. Well, you know, the data keeps changing on what you're supposed to feed kids. People just need to like people take small amounts of data and make huge implications or recommend things to all of us to do with our kids that then can have effects on them later in life. It's nuts.
+
+[43:04] You know what I mean? Yeah, I think it just feels right. You know, it's like I'm making everything from scratch, I know exactly what's in there. I don't know. Well, I'm sure Joe, you got you have you must have issues with this doctors saying all kinds of stuff to you all the time.
+
+[43:15] All the time. Well, we're still allergic to eggs, we're still allergic to the coconut, which is really freaking tricky because it's not just so much in the food, it's in the uh the moisturizers and the cream, you know, all the lotions. Yeah. We started with making our own egg baked goods. Um, but he still has a reaction.
+
+[43:33] He's like, my tongue, but never. I mean, we're gone to this color palette. There's so tan. Uh everything's tan. So like brown.
+
+[43:43] So you gotta cook 70s style. In the 70s, everything was brown. Like my wife said, Well, maybe we should do fondue. Yeah. That's a fun one.
+
+[43:51] Yeah. I mean, like, uh, you should go like uh I have I have a lot of cookbooks from the 70s, and when you look through it, it's total brown town. You know what I mean? You're like, ooh, hey, you know what I haven't made in many, many years? Beef Stroganoff.
+
+[44:03] Ooh. We had one at Thanksgiving. Really? Yeah. How was it?
+
+[44:06] It was really modified. Oh. It was made with tofu. What? I know.
+
+[44:09] Family's interesting. Persian family making tofu stroganoff for Thanksgiving. Huh. It was delicious. Yeah?
+
+[44:14] It was like a 10. Maybe that's one of the items you can add to your your uh Thanksgiving for the vegan. Stroganoff. Yeah. Tofu Stroganoff.
+
+[44:21] Yeah. I was honestly it worked way better than expected. Really? Hmm. Beef Stroganoff.
+
+[44:27] The tofu. All right. Well, you need a couple of vegan items, you know. I had someone made what was it? Someone made like a mapo tofu that didn't have the pork?
+
+[44:35] Yeah, and I was like, I think mapo tofu is easily one of the best dishes in the whole world. It's delicious. It's it really is just mind blowing. I feel like you have to call it something else if it doesn't have some analog in it to take the place of the pork. Hmm.
+
+[44:47] Right? Yeah. I mean, you're building flav Yeah, no, I don't know. You could do it without pork. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[44:52] But just I just want to hear the same name. I just don't want to hear it. You know what I mean? I just don't want to hear it. All right.
+
+[44:59] All right. Uh what am I missing, guys? Am I missing anything? Or should we should we get on to some questions? Let's talk about shoes.
+
+[45:05] Let's do it. Before we do the question, let's talk about shoes. So I looked on uh I was like, oh, it's got a shoe brand. I was like, okay. And then I looked it up, and it's like uh Sirius Eats rates your shoe number one.
+
+[45:17] Yep. And uh I think on your website it said food and wine rates your shoe number one. Now here's the thing. You teamed up with uh some uh orth orthopedic uh doctor, right, to make these shoes. And and you had a why why'd you start this again?
+
+[45:30] You said you had a slip and fall? I had a really bad slip and fall in the kitchen. I mean, I still have slip discs or an A discs from that 15 years ago. Yeah. Jeez.
+
+[45:37] Yeah. Real bad. So you don't find the uh Canadian PSA funny. What's the Canadian PSA? You've never seen the Canadian PSA?
+
+[45:44] No. I've talked about this on air. I apologize, listeners, if you've heard this a million times. But there's a bunch of workplace PSAs uh from Canada that are maybe now 15 years old. Uh you know, 15, 16 years old, and one of them is a chef, and she's carrying uh like a giant pot of uh like oil or stock.
+
+[46:03] I think that's burning, scalding hot, I think it's oil. And she's like, you know, ah man, I'm doing great. I'm a sous chef, I'm gonna be executive chef by next year, and you know, uh, I'm supposed to get married, you know, you know, in a month, but none of that's gonna happen because I'm about to have a terrible accident. Somebody should have cleaned up that floor and shab boy. She flies up in the air.
+
+[46:26] Feet out from underneath her, head hits the the uh the you know, this the oven, the the range, the waldorf on the way down, spills the pot of burning hot, like you know, a five-gallon like stock pot of stuff on her face, and she gets up going like her face all mangled and screaming and stuff like that. And it's basically the whole all of these PSAs are about workplace safety and how there's no such thing as quote unquote accidents. That's gruesome. Yeah, well, or hilarious, depending on how you see it, but I'm guessing if you had a terrible Yeah. So now you gotta watch that.
+
+[46:57] I gotta watch it. Yeah. Sounds like our commercial is already built in. We used to I used to play it for the students at the school at the French Culinary Institute, and uh, I would just look at the audience and you would see people would either be rolling on the floor or horrified. There's nothing in between.
+
+[47:13] It's like the movie Heathers. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Sure. Uh anyway, uh, so you had a bad slip and fall.
+
+[47:19] I did. All right. And then what? Uh and what shoes were you wearing when you slip and fall? You want to call them out?
+
+[47:23] Yeah, I was wearing Vans. Okay. So I was wearing the wrong footwear. I wanted to look cool as this young hotshot chef. I just want a big food network show.
+
+[47:29] I was like, oh, you know, like I'm opening my second restaurant. This is a big deal. And so this is 2011. This is 2014. 2014.
+
+[47:35] Yeah. Second restaurant was 2014. Yeah. And um I watched someone else open my line, which I don't know if you've, you know, the Mies is it's not yours anymore. You know, and I and I was like, I didn't love that.
+
+[47:45] And uh yeah, it was a tough feeling. And I was like, someone needs to make better footwear that looks cool. And like I had this amazing thought, or I guess it was an epiphany, that the people that design shoes for people to be on their feet for 12 hours have never worked a 12 hour shift in their life. And so I wanted to make it better. I didn't know how.
+
+[48:02] Partnered with one of the top orthopedic surgeons. And it took me 48 revisions in five years to launch our first shoe. I went two trips to China. I had a team from Jordan, Adidas, Nike, Biomechanics, Robots. I mean, I really wanted to make something different.
+
+[48:15] Huh. And uh, and like, look, they're not cheap, but they're not crazy unreasonable. You can get them now on sale, actually. There's a Black Friday sale going on right now if you guys are if you guys are interested. Ends today.
+
+[48:25] Yeah. I was gonna be like, maybe I shouldn't get them. The thing is, I don't know my sizing. Do you do you guys sell in brick and mortars or no? Uh we do, but not on in not in New York.
+
+[48:32] Yeah. So the one that uh is is the the one that got called out on uh what's it called? Serious Seats that was the clog, is that is that the the go-to or no? Uh it depends. So the shoe I'm wearing right now, the pro is my favorite shoe in the whole world.
+
+[48:43] This one uh we take running technology and we put it into a boot. It's pretty special. Um and it's easy to get on and off. But everyone, it's kind of like your your poison. Like I noticed with chefs, like nobody's really looking to reinvent the wheel.
+
+[48:55] They they like the silhouette that they like. I either like a boot, I like a trainer, I like a clog. And so whatever feels right for you, I would recommend that too. My problem is I got wide feet. Oh, yeah, our shoes naturally are wide.
+
+[49:05] Plus we make wides. Really? Yeah, yeah. But every I mean your feet swallow as you're on your feet all day, so we need really wide toe boxes. I know, I hate that.
+
+[49:12] That's like like uh mo most shoes I have to order them too big because they smash the front of my feet. You know what I mean? I know exactly what you mean. You know? Yeah.
+
+[49:20] So I can I can solve all right. Yeah, yeah. All right. And uh the snibs. That's the doctor's name, roughly, right?
+
+[49:27] He's Snibby. But this, but the brand you took off the E. So this is one of those, it's like, you know, uh Kate Spade, she's like, no, no, no, I'm I'm Katie in the real life, not Kate. So it's not named after a person. I'm like, come on.
+
+[49:40] You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just thought the name was really clever and Snibbies.
+
+[49:44] Uh I like snibs more. Yeah. No one's gonna go buy snibbies, but they'll buy sniffs. They'll but you know, and that's what made sense to me at the time. All right.
+
+[49:50] So how's the how's the brand going? You got some good uh what's it called? Uh like uh chef uh what's the word I'm looking for? Spokes folks. Yeah, they're actually um partners in our business.
+
+[49:59] So we have Nancy Silverton, Andrew Zimmern, and we just uh brought on Michael Vitaggio. Nice. Yeah, so some cool guys. I I it's really interesting because we want to find people that I really admire in the industry who still work on their feet all day. And so that's a unique factor because they they had to have been very successful, but they still have to operate and then they have a strong sense of personal style.
+
+[50:18] So I noticed and see whether you can talk to me about this, and sorry for people that were going deep into shoes, but uh so years ago, back when um barefoot running became popular and there was the people in Harvard, I kind of got sucked into the zero drop world. And so for those of you that don't know, like uh when you're talking about the drop, you're talking about how much higher the heel is than the toe, you know, naturally in a shoe, right? So I got kind of sucked into barefoot world, and I moved away from that only because the brand of shoes that I became kind of accustomed to wearing stopped being easy to buy. Uh and um, but I stayed zero drop. And you know, in your website, and we know the doctor says is that like you don't have a huge drop.
+
+[51:04] It's like point six three or something centimeters, right? So, you know, not giant, but uh, you guys believe that um for this application for kitchen, some drop is necessary. Yeah, so um how you position your hips. So, like when you're on your feet all uh here's what's crazy. Almost all studies in footwear are around athletics.
+
+[51:24] Athletics are meant to be worn for an hour or two. Um you you play a sport and you're done with that sport, you move on. Like you wear a hoka on your feet all day, like with the super cushion, and yeah, I'm saying it, like that's terrible for you. It and it it it cripples your foot as you're on your feet all day. It doesn't offer the support you need.
+
+[51:40] The dance go clog that looks arguably pretty ugly and is pretty clunky, that shoe will reduce plantar fasciitis. If you're standing on your feet all day, it will make your life better. You want a hard sole. This is contrary to the whole world's belief right now that these super cushy shoes are good for you. And so having your hip placed a little bit forward it if you're standing all day is actually good.
+
+[51:59] And that's why that there's a little bit of drop. And we did a bunch of biomechanic testing to figure this out. Um, but yeah, it is it is purposeful. When you're on your feet for eight to twelve hours a day, you you have a different environment than most people when you're when you're looking at shoes, and you need to buy shoes that are specific to that. Nice.
+
+[52:17] Yeah. And I think, no, you know what? My wife's gonna kill me. No, but I'll tell you this the zero drop is uh if I'm casually wearing shoes, uh, I love the zero drop as well. And I I I strengthen my foot.
+
+[52:27] I do a lot of it, you know, it's not just shoes. Like if you're on your feet all day, there's uh a routine that needs to happen for you to have good foot health. Yeah. All right. And uh unfortunately, I don't I don't have your book.
+
+[52:38] So your food truck has been around now, what is that, 14 years? 15. 15. Queen Ceniera this year. Yeah, oh really?
+
+[52:44] Yeah, yeah. You're gonna dress up the truck in a nice, like uh cool outfit. We were hoping to do so, yes. Yeah, it'd be amazing. Like you get an outfit for the truck and like, you know, you know, the the boys can have sabers and like all sorts of cool stuff.
+
+[52:55] Exactly. Yeah, it'd be sweet. That'd be sick. That'd be fun. Yeah.
+
+[52:58] Oh my god, that's gonna be good news. Anyway, uh but you also, and so you know, you know Nastasia, she couldn't be on the show today, but she had a food truck situation with Mark Ladner, hated it. Hated it. And so you wrote a book called, which I again, I apologize I haven't read it, Food Truck Mogul, where you kind of go through it and you're like, hey, not a get rich quick scheme. It's a it's a well, why don't you describe it?
+
+[53:24] Yeah, it's it's so I think you can make money in food trucks. You can make money in restaurants too. There's there's lots of ways to do that, but it's a grind. I mean, the food trucks, they don't generate uh a crazy amount of revenue. And so even if you're really talented at at making great margins, the revenue, the gross revenue isn't high enough necessarily unless you have multiple trucks.
+
+[53:42] And so what I love about food trucks, and it's still my favorite part of all my businesses is working on a food truck because it's instant gratification. You're creating the food, but you're also serving it and you're seeing the people eat it. And there's a sense of joy when people come to a truck because typically there's discovery and they have to find it. And so for me, it's a very dynamic environment. And I've had fast casual, I've had fine dining, I've had catering, I've done everything I think in food at this point.
+
+[54:08] And there's something about the joy of service. But it's hard. Uh it's a grind. Well, how much better are the economics in a catering situation versus a I'm a part my truck situation. Aaron Powell for the food truck specifically.
+
+[54:21] Yeah. Oh, yeah. Catering is worse. We so we do 95% catering. Um I love going to events, but I do them with uh a different initiative, which is typically to drive brand.
+
+[54:31] So I'll go to the Brentwood farmers market knowing that we might lose $80 to $100 at that event, even though we gross maybe $1,200 or whatever it is, just because I know that that's the right demographic to book more catering and it's where I would like to be. And so I think the street corners are you could still make those successful, but the inconsistency in stops is it it almost makes it impossible to run. Right. So like I mean, I'm sure, I mean, uh if I was gonna do it, and is this like in the book like like working backwards? Like, here's the footprint, here's how many covers I of stuff I can fit, or what do you call them?
+
+[55:02] You don't call them covers there, do you? What do you think? Yeah, call them tickets, covers. So here's how much I can fit in the truck. I need to figure out what the split is roughly gonna be.
+
+[55:09] And then do you do a constant resupply? Yeah, I mean, we could uh those trucks are so big now. I can I could do 15,000 out of my truck and not need a resupply. So it's you you can definitely there's enough um storage now in my new trucks that I can do any volume. But um to your point, you have to have menus that scale just because um if you go to one stop and there's uh 200 people and you only brought food for 80, that's gonna hurt really bad.
+
+[55:32] And if you go to a place that you thought was going to be 200 and you made food for 200, you're gonna be throwing away a lot of food. So you need a menu that uh allows for the ability to scale up or down. And that typically it takes a lot of sourcing. Like, you know, you use the cryovact tuna, like right, and those come in like one-pound bags that you could defrost at a time, they defrost quickly. Okay, well, that's an item that you can flex on if you need it.
+
+[55:54] Yeah. So I cryovac pork. I mean, I I I I've done a lot of things now over the 15 years to understand how to like um handle different volumes. Yeah. It's a pain, what a pain.
+
+[56:03] It's uh, but you know, again, but so is the book detail these kind of things. If somebody wants if somebody wants to do this, should they read the book to try to figure out like the like just the rough outline of what they need to think about? It's crazy. I I think for someone to start a food truck and not either read my book or go through my master class, it's like 20 bucks of the master class 100. Like, it will change how you look at food trucks forever.
+
+[56:22] Like I've literally telling you like 15 years, I've had you know 10 trucks, I've opened trucks for other brands, I've done activations, I'm doing uh potentially a truck for one of the coolest restaurants in the world from where your son's at right now. Like I've done it all. We won't name them, but uh it rhymes with with Paloma. No, no. But it's um but but it's the to the point of is that I've just I've done it, right?
+
+[56:44] You know, 15 years, I'm pretty much one of the oldest people in the industry. So let me ask you this tid like a tidbit. So as anyone who's ever tried to do anything in this industry knows, it's very thin line between making money and going bankrupt because like the way the numbers can swing when you make a mistake, like they can swing way against you. They rarely swing way in your favor. You know what I mean?
+
+[57:06] Uh but so you know, you could look at someone and they could have incredibly high revenues, but they could still be sucking wind. And that was my that was my second year. We won the food network show. We had three trucks and we went from one to three. Every time I opened my truck, there was a two hour line.
+
+[57:19] I grossed 2.4 coming off 400,000 the first year, so six times the amount of revenue, and I made 30 grand. Yeah, ridiculous. If people don't understand this, so like what is the one thing, because then I gotta answer some questions before we go out. One thing that people don't factor in that's gonna suck money out of their out of their business. Uh I mean it's just it it's to your point, controlled controlling labor, controlling food costs, like it it it's hard.
+
+[57:45] And especially in uh in those environments. So I I mean I'm really about budgeting and and holding people accountable to that. And I think that's the biggest thing in the restaurant industry that I've noticed is like your fixed costs, you know what they are going into it. It's your variable cost that can eat you alive, and you gotta be crazy strict about it. You know, like uh w one of the biggest challenges of a yakatory restaurant is you're making tiny little sticks that you sell for two to five dollars, which we don't do anymore, and there's a lot of labor there.
+
+[58:09] And so, you know, that model doesn't work so easily anymore. And so you have to be really tight on controlled uh on variable costs. Now you have to sell them for six dollars. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but you gotta figure that out, right?
+
+[58:21] Yeah, well, yeah, it's like I don't I can't I can't conscience what cocktails cost nowadays. All right, let's do some questions. Oh, also before I do that, son of a gun. You guys don't use uh seed oils. Yeah, no seed oils.
+
+[58:31] Yeah. You like a seed oil? Is that uh is that a disappointment face? No, well here's my here's the thing, right? So like the argument is is that linoleic acid is good in some quantity, but not in the quantity we do.
+
+[58:40] But the whole reason we consume those is because we were told not to consume other things. So I just don't know that I just I gotta look at all the the data. Sure. You know what I mean? Like anything that's a swing one way or the but you you think the quality of the oil is good?
+
+[58:52] I mean it's night and day. If you do just a blind taste test, let alone what I think the implications of cheap fryer oil is, which is what the ninety-nine percent of food trucks use and buy. Um, it's pretty amazing. I mean, I like a stable fry oil. Is this mean I'm getting kicked off or what's the thing?
+
+[59:05] Yeah, we got two minutes. We got two minutes. We got two minutes. Uh all right, listen. Desert platypus wrote in and wants to make a uh a Mai Thai non alcoholic, and I haven't I've been thinking about it ever since you wrote about this Desert Platypus, and I don't have a good answer for it yet.
+
+[59:23] I need someone in the Discord or someone to come out who can figure out this problem because my tie is particularly difficult because I can't fake it on texture. It's poured over over rocks. Making it non-alcoholic is just, I don't know. Uh I 'cause I don't use like quote unquote non alcoholic spirits, and so it more. Um Rock Baker wants us to ask everyone their pet peeves, but I don't know if we're gonna do what's your give me one pet peeve real quick.
+
+[59:54] Uh Pep peeves. In a kitchen. In a in a kitchen. Yeah. Uh Pepivina Kitchen is uh come on, Daniel.
+
+[1:00:05] I I think I don't like uh I I like focus. I think when uh when people come in and then then there's things to do on the line and they start talking, uh it's it's a little distracting. Yeah, if you if you have time to lean, you have time to die. There you go. Yeah.
+
+[1:00:18] Um Elliot from Berkeley, I mentioned something on the uh show about juice changing over time, but I'm not exactly sure what I said. So Velly, if you could be more clear on what I said, I could try to be more clear on what I meant. Um Azu 14 is buying high protein seltzer at Costco. I don't know how they would do that. Most proteins really foam quite badly.
+
+[1:00:39] So I don't know what I'd have to find a protein that doesn't foam a lot, but I need to talk to some uh I need to talk to some people about that, because I don't know. I would just take some protein pills and drink seltzer. But I don't know. It's an interesting uh thing. Justin F.
+
+[1:00:53] asked me about clams and immersion circulators. The best clam I ever had that was done uh it was done at Combi, not in a circ, was uh the uh modernist cuisine uh gooey duck, which was done as a noodle form and low temp. So I'm gonna try to for the next time look up the recipe and figure out what the temperature was, but I don't ever cook clams that way. To me, I've said this a million times, God's clams are razors on a plancha. I love razor clamps.
+
+[1:01:19] East coast we've got to be. Yeah, gooey duck is delicious. Um pray to that gooey duck, though. It's like 200 years old. Well, you know, gotta die sometime.
+
+[1:01:28] Uh all right. The rest uh we'll get uh we'll get to later. Got a couple more uh questions. Uh and from Kevin, who you might know from uh from Noma, who's in California right now, preparing for some stuff. We have a question uh uh from him, but we'll get to it later because we got no more time cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking I choose coming to you, live from the Heart of Man Hat, Rockefeller Center, New York City, New Stance Studios. Jordan is usual with John way in the back. How are you doing, John? Doing great, thanks.
+
+[0:22] Yeah, I got Joe Hazen rocking the panels behind me. What's up? Full House. And in the street sisters, this is a studio! Nastasio the hammer Lopez.
+
+[0:31] How you doing? Good. Maybe a long time since you've been in our fine city. Oof. Yeah.
+
+[0:34] We got Jackie Molecules on the left. No. No molecules. It's a shame. Couldn't talk to him.
+
+[0:41] But we have we have some Quinn, though, right? Quinn? Yep. Quinn holding down the upper left. At least we have someone from kind of that coast.
+
+[0:50] I mean, even though you have cracked off and floated into the ocean. How you doing, Quinn? I'm good. Good, good, good. And then also our special guest, longtime friend of the show, Mr.
+
+[1:02] Oil, Captain Olive Nick Golemad. How are you doing? It's an honor to be here. Doing great. Fresh back from Greece from Teaching Olive Oil at the International Olive Oil Network.
+
+[1:13] GreaseInGrease.com. Nice. Athens. We're we're doing an olive oil seminar during the harvest, so it was immersive in the groves as well as with sensory stuff. Nice.
+
+[1:22] Like what do you mean sensory stuff? Um learning how to sense defects in olive oil is a really important component. Like without tasting them, like touch the bottle and be like blah blah blah blah blah. Um no, it's all by smell and then taste. But a lot of the defects you can determine just from the nose, and based on the defect you smell, you can determine at what stage of the fruit that got damaged.
+
+[1:41] Right, right. Whether it's whole or whether it's already after it's been transferred. And what's your favorite fault to find? Well, the most common is uh Don't start with me, fuss, don't fust me. Yeah, the most common is fusty, where it smells like olive, like black olive top and not where the olive's fermented before it was extracted.
+
+[1:58] So you're saying the problem with this oil is smells delicious? Um top and not smells bad to you? No. Okay. I know.
+
+[2:06] This argument is like old as the hills. We can't get the water. Wine should not taste like you're eating Welch's grapes or something. Well, that's not the same. Because that hasn't gone through fermentation.
+
+[2:16] That's why it smells like Welch's grapes. Wine's interesting in that the flavors aren't even there until you ferment. Like if you taste a wine varietal. Well, you don't want olive oil fermented. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[2:26] I get it. I get it. That's my I get it. So if it smells fermented, you gotta bring it up. What I'm saying is that what you're saying is that I love the Welch's grape juice.
+
+[2:34] You're saying the exact opposite. What I love is Welch's grape juice. And when it turns into that disgusting wine, it's trash. I'm not saying love or dislike, I'm saying right and wrong. Okay.
+
+[2:46] Okay. And uh for those who've never heard this rant before, which is maybe two of you, if you haven't listened for a long time, if this is your first time listening, uh, what uh what is the olive that is uh purposefully oxidized, the olive oil? Oh, it it's well it's not oxidized, it's called um fruiten noir. It's a provenceal technique where they self-induce the defect of fusty into healthy green olives by heating them before they extract the oil. Right, right.
+
+[3:13] And that you like. That has personality and it's clean because it's made with healthy green olives. A lot of the fusty oils are from later harvest oils, um, where the olives turn dark purple and they break down very quickly after they are harvested and off the tree. So let's take an apple analogy here. There's a big difference between using drops, right, and getting the same because multiple defects happen to an apple after it's dropped.
+
+[3:41] Multiple, right? So it's very different necessarily. It's very different from taking healthy apples and sweating them to make them friendlier for cider, right? Reducing their acid content, blah blah, right? And just like scooping the maggoty trash off the ground.
+
+[3:56] Exactly. That's the whole idea. So the fruit noir, they'll take the really healthy apples that you could just eat on their own. Or they take the really healthy olives that you could do anything with and they self-induce the defect, which makes it really clean. They don't all do that, but but the grape producers do.
+
+[4:10] Let me ask you a question. I don't think I've ever asked you before. Sure. What uh because like when you see apples on the ground, they're infested by all kinds of bugs. Yes, big problem.
+
+[4:18] Yeah. Whereas uh we infest it stronger, but you know what I mean? Bugs eat them. Right. Uh what about what about olives?
+
+[4:24] There's this olive fly that's lays its eggs in the olives and you end up pressing the maggot of the olive fly. That usually happens when it's still on the tree. If a grove gets infested, it can get infested because it doesn't get cold enough in the winter. So right when the fruit comes on, an olive fly inhabits the grove. But generally speaking, you don't want olives falling on the ground and sitting there uh for days before they're collected.
+
+[4:43] That would be really good. Is there an argument, as there is for for instance, certain teas and certain spices, where when bugs chew on like the the parts, maybe not the fruit itself, because these are leaves, not fruit. When you chew on it, it increases the defensive components that the tree makes and therefore can make a more delicious or at least different product. Is there a similar argument for maggoty oils? No.
+
+[5:05] If we d how do you say fly? Muy in front? Oh. Isn't it like mooy or something? No.
+
+[5:12] That's too wet. Wow. I yeah, can't think of it. Yeah. The trick to healthy olives is pruning the tree so all branches receive equal parts sunlight and oxygen, and making sure there's not too much water.
+
+[5:25] You want loose soil so the water rapidly drains because you want to stress the tree to give you higher quality fruit. Yeah. You don't want them too plump, you don't want them too comfortable. How is the fresh press crap in Greece? Um some of it's good and some of it's bad.
+
+[5:39] No, that you were working with while you were there. You just came from there. But I brought but the thing is with these courses, you want to bring samples from all over the world, right? So people can taste oils from South Africa and Chile and Portugal. What percentage of the people were Greek?
+
+[5:52] It was actually there were people from like 11 different countries, and there's very few Greeks there. People flew in from all over the world, from Taiwan, from South Korea, from Brazil, from like it was global group of people. Aside from the Italians, who are the most chauvinistic about their olive oils? The Greeks, right? It's gotta be the Greeks.
+
+[6:09] Um every single country I go to that produces olive oil, they believe they produce the best olive oil in the world. Australia's every single person believes that their oil is the best. Californians. Oh god, yeah. All right.
+
+[6:25] And the reality is there is no best olive oil, and everyone should be open to the world of olive oil for true beauty lies in regional diversity. So for those of you that don't know why we're talking about this, Nick Coleman has a uh has a corporation, aside from his band, the human growth hormone. Is that accurate? The human growth hormone? Yeah, H G H.
+
+[6:46] Yeah, the human growth hormone. Although, you know, to be honest, you're all of normal height. Um none of you are like aggro mega how do you pronounce that? Agro mega how do you pronounce that? I don't know.
+
+[6:59] Where you where you don't stop making growth hormone and you become huge, like a human giant. No, we're not, we're not Andre the Giants. Yeah, um there you go. Ariel. Ariel.
+
+[7:08] I didn't know you were coming on. Welcome. Ariel Johnson. Hi, late edition. I have I have questions for you.
+
+[7:14] So I'm so glad that you're here. Oh great. Wow. Okay. So listen.
+
+[7:19] So listen, anyone have questions who happens to be listening live, and the the only way you can listen live is by listening on Patreon. John will talk about that in a minute. But uh if any of you have questions uh about olive oil, about human growth hormone, uh about uh, you know, gigging uh nationally internationally in a rock and roll band uh or about any sort of food chemistry uh if you have any of those questions or just cooking related questions coming uh about your upcoming holiday seasons or failures that you had over maybe the last holidays call in those questions to 917 410 1507 917 4101507 and John why don't you tell them how they can become a Patreon member if they aren't already go to patreon.com slash cooking issues you'll see a couple different membership levels there um each one has different options uh they all include access to our Discord where you got a community of like minded people that you can bounce questions off of talk about food you get access to Kitchen Arts and Letters discounts which with the holidays coming up is pretty great um and just a whole bunch of other things so yeah check it out patreon.com slash cooking issues you know what's a good book they can buy Kitchen Arts and Letters if they don't already own it what's that Flavorama by Ariel Johnson did you know that that you could buy it there? I yeah yeah I mean you can buy all culinary books there so it's a great place. Did you know that she did all the artwork for her own book?
+
+[8:40] We did yes as she told us on the podcast last time. Yeah exclusive yeah yeah you should if you haven't already checked out that podcast, you should go and uh check it out. But uh okay, so let me ask, because like you never know. Once you have Ariel, you gotta strike while the Ariel's hot. You can't wait.
+
+[8:54] You know what I'm saying? Uh oh, by the way. By the way, uh Ariel's time and tied an Ariel wait for Noma. Exactly, exactly. So, as uh what was your official title when you were uh at uh NOMA?
+
+[9:07] What was your official title? Well, the first time um uh well resident scientist head of research. I also co-founded the fermentation lab. Right, all right. And then your second time title, say uh are they a title friendly place or do they not care about titans?
+
+[9:24] Now I mean you have titles, but then that does not really necessarily your job description. Um right now I think I'm like senior science advisor at NOMA. All right. So similar to your role at uh I call I call it the lab and have uh exactly, exactly, and have lab meetings and then tell them what to do. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[9:43] Well, anyway, uh for those of you that don't know uh what no what NOMA is, uh go ahead and look it up. Um we can only tell you so much. Do you know what I'm saying? It's good to leave the secrets for people to discover on their own. Those who those who know.
+
+[9:57] Yeah. No, no, listen, here's the thing. Here's the thing. I don't understand how you would end up. I'm happy that you're here, but I don't understand how you would end up hearing this if you didn't already kind of know what NOMA was.
+
+[10:08] You know what I'm saying? It's like that group, you know, you know what I mean? I would want to study them anthropologically. Yeah. We're here for you, and maybe I love you the most if you're listening to this and don't know what NOMA is, but I just don't I just don't understand.
+
+[10:23] But uh interesting tie-in, uh Ariel, is next week uh Kevin Jung is here, who is currently re head of research research chefs. Oh, two weeks. What's next week? No tangents? Yeah, I'm tangents next week.
+
+[10:40] You know what that means. Only tangents. All right. All right, all tangent Tuesday. So Ariel, but before I lose you, uh, I had a question.
+
+[10:49] My good, my good buddy Kevin's coming on. Yeah. Kevin, good people. And by the way, that means I have not one week, but two weeks to work out. Because last time he was on the show, which was well over well over a year ago, he brought the I was in Denmark last weekend.
+
+[11:03] I was there only for three days for Copenhagen. And even though it gets I'll spend most of my time, I'll wait with most of my Copenhagen crap until he gets here because at this point he's captain Copenhagen because he's there most of the time. He's in LA now hanging out with Nastasia. Anyways. Right, right.
+
+[11:21] So in Denmark, how do you know how to pronounce that word like flesh that the pork word? The rose pork word, Ariel? Fleskistai. Say it say it one more. You need to start one of those pronunciation ones.
+
+[11:36] Love it. And by the way, for those of you that that say it again. All right. For those of you that are gonna try to look it up, don't bother because it has at least two G's in it. Good luck figuring out where those G's go.
+
+[11:49] It has one of those A's and E's smashed together. You know what I mean? It just makes no, it makes no sense. Everyone, everyone thinks everyone thinks the French are bad at dropping consonants, but uh the Danes can really give them a bunch of my money. Yeah, for a hard sounding language, they drop the most.
+
+[12:05] You know what I mean? Like, because when you when you listen to a French person speak, yeah, you know you're like, it sounds like they're dropping a bunch of stuff, right? You know, but when you listen to a Dane, it doesn't sound like they're dropping everything. That's what it makes it hard. Anyway, uh, so Danish pork, and we've talked about this, we'll talk about it again in a couple of weeks, so apologize.
+
+[12:24] But they have this catclaw mechanism. So they cook their pork roasts rind on, meaning skin on. And they have three main cuts that they do this to. One is a loin. I'm obviously not going to get the loin because I don't care about it, right?
+
+[12:38] And then the other one, the other two you can't really get, which is here in the States, I think it's a modified pork belly cut. And I don't think I'm gonna use that one either, even though that one would be my favorite. But they make what is like just a certain muscle in like the neckslash shoulder region that has a word, it's like neck and kickament or something like this, right? That's the cut that I want to do it to. And you take a cat, you take this cat claw, these like razor blades embedded in plastic that turns you into wolverine, and you score the meat before you cook it, rub salt in and bay, and then you you cook it on a rack suspended over water that you can throw aromatics into if you want to use said water as a broth later.
+
+[13:17] You cook it like a normal roast, and you crackle up the top. So the real trick, I think is everyone says the real trick is leveling up the skin so that it gets nice and crispy. And then when you pull it out, you slice it through the score marks that you made, and you get these thin slices of pork with crackling on them. And they are great. But the way God wants you to have this is in the form of a sandwich on like a soft brioche kind of roll with sweet and sour braised red cabbage, lightly pickled cucumbers, and um, and what tastes to me, I guess what they call a remelade, but what tastes to me a lot like McDonald's secret sauce.
+
+[13:56] Special sauce. Where what is it? All two patty special. Yeah. So if you if if you want to emulate this at home, I would look up, uh I would look up the uh sweet braised cabbage, because it's like currant jelly.
+
+[14:09] If you don't have current juice, they use juice, but who the hell is current juice here? Current jelly, vinegar, salt, red cabbage. And that's about it, right? Right, Ariel? Like that's the basic combo.
+
+[14:14] Oh, yeah, yeah. And anything added to that would be a you know, like heinous Catholic uh abomination. Yeah, yeah. So then you you cook that down, and then that sandwich, that sandwich, oh my god. Oh my god.
+
+[14:34] And they're at every Christmas market. So good. So good. I had maybe four in three days. So good.
+
+[14:41] And uh and you gotta wash that down with glug, which is their version of glue vine. And of course, theirs is different from the dates. Whatever, we'll talk more about it when Kevin comes. Uh so what else is it? Well who what else we have in people in the week in in review?
+
+[14:53] Oh, I didn't ask Ariel her question. Let me ask her a question, just in case. Uh Monty Z wants to know and asked a little asked a long time ago. Um, I made some do you have a copy of this question, Ariel, or am I cold cold cocking with this? You you emailed it to me, right?
+
+[15:09] Like, I think so. Uh over Thanksgiving. I think so, yeah. Uh yeah, yeah, yeah, good, good. All right.
+
+[15:14] I made some plum frozen yogurt with Italian prunes that we grow. Uh just yogurt, allulose, which is, you know, a sugar thing, and plums in the creamy. Uh worst name ever for a piece of equipment. Uh my wife commented, but it's by the way, it's the Faco Jet. It's the ninja Faco Jet, in case you don't have that.
+
+[15:30] Uh my wife comment commented that it tastes like strawberry, and yeah, it really does. Having just eaten a fresh plum, it tastes nothing like a strawberry while eating it, but the aftertaste is there like I had eaten a strawberry. In the frozen yogurt, uh in the frozen yogurt, that strawberry flavor. I don't understand this last sentence, but apparently this strawberry aftertaste is quite dominant in the frozen yogurt base. Any any reasons why that might be the case?
+
+[15:56] Well, so you know, it when you think strawberry, it's easy to think of like, oh, it's just like strawberry flavor. There's kind of like one strawberry note to it, but like there's there's really like four or five keynotes to get to strawberry. So there's like a regular kind of like fruity backbone, like generic fruit, um, that comes from Esters. There's a like grassy kind of green note. Um, there is a uh kind of a boozy, whiny isobutanol note that's a little bit fermented.
+
+[16:25] Um, and then the two like oddball ones are um a slightly blue cheese note uh from butyric acid and a caramel note um from furinone, which is also in uh in pineapple, I believe. So yeah, I was thinking about this. The the most obvious thing I could see is that uh yogurt also has butyric acid in it, like cultured dairy does generally, it's just got a bit of a cheesy note to it, and that the like kind of general plum fruity flavor, which is you know, both has this generic fruit and it has this kind of like rich, slightly whiny backbone, you know, then that little bit of like cheesy note added to it might snap into place for your brain. It's like, ah, okay, so that's strawberry. Yeah, I like how you're selling it because the the other the other thing, the other thing butyric acid gets uh gets a a a loop on is vomit, right?
+
+[17:17] True, true. Yeah. Depending blue cheese, vomit, uh, cheddar cheese, uh uh any anything where lipids are breaking down. But uh, yes, vomit is limited. Speaking of this, has anyone noticed this?
+
+[17:29] Probably how many West Coast people, do you guys have a lot of ginkgos out there? I don't know. We have a lot. I mean, like we have a lot, we have a lot of ginkgo street trees. And they the ginkgo nut only obviously comes from the female tree.
+
+[17:44] So ginkgos are one of those trees where there's male trees and female trees. And most people plant male trees because ginkgo nuts dus duh stink. They stink. Butyric acid is one of the main stinkofents. And if you if you stink up your shoes with them, if you trot on them and then walk home, you're like, God, I what happened to me?
+
+[18:06] You know what I mean? What happened? It's ginkgo nuts. And someone told me, and this could be completely false, that ginkgos can flip sexes at some point in their life. Is anyone else heard this?
+
+[18:18] Oh, interesting. I don't know, because like nobody on purpose plants female ginkgos, but I've seen more and more female ginkgos around the city. Maybe it's just because I clock them when I see them. You know what I mean? Or I should say I clock them when I smell them.
+
+[18:30] You're biking by and you're like, this isn't a bar neighborhood. Why does it smell like vomit? And you look over and you're like, oh, ginkgo nuts on the ground. Are we talking ginkgo boloba? Same, yeah.
+
+[18:41] One of the oldest trees on the planet. Do you know about that? Yeah, well, you know what, you know what else is weird? It is the only species, not only in its genus, but in its whole test on five family. You know what I mean?
+
+[18:53] Like there's not a lot of close relatives. It's a fascinating thing. I have some right on the street I live on, I got some ginkgo. Yeah. And it's it's it in the wild, extraordinarily rare, extremely common in cultivation, you know?
+
+[19:05] Um, and people love it to ginkgo nuts. But it has those beautiful leaves. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[19:11] Uh once they're processed properly. And the bright green, once he uh yeah, uh, ginkgo leaf in the fall. Here's what's weird. Like ginkgo leaves, unlike a like a lot of other trees, like tendency of the tree is to they go yellow. They go a very nice yellow, not like a garbage.
+
+[19:25] Not that oak trees go garbage yellow, but they do. You know what I mean? But a very punchy, punchy yellow. And they tend to go yellow like all at once and then drop all at once. They're they're cool trees and they look weird.
+
+[19:39] So next season, next season, when a ginkgo comes out, right? Look for the ginkgo, which has a very, very obvious leaf structure. It's the only leaf that looks like a ginkgo leaf, like a fan with two lobes, biloba, right? And then wait for it. Watch it all season, right?
+
+[19:55] See if it makes nuts. And if it does, like put on gloves and collect them. Don't collect them with your bare hands. Put on gloves, collect them. Because I think it's also an irritant as well as being smelly.
+
+[20:04] Uh although I don't know because I ain't processing those things. Uh I heard that. Yeah. Uh then when the leaves fall, take a look at the structure. Mature ginkgo.
+
+[20:13] Take a look at the structure of the branches, and you will be able to clock and the bark, and you'll be able to clock a ginkgo any any time of year. Winter, spring, summer, fall, just by looking and be like, oh, ginkgo. It's got a weird little knobby look to the branches. I've never heard someone say the word ginkgo so many times. I know.
+
+[20:30] It's a great tree. Oh, the tree's incredible. But like, I think you uh someone's got a clock there. That must have been like 30 ginkgo references. Ginkgo ginkgo.
+
+[20:41] All right. So what do you guys have over the past week? What's the weekend review look like for you folks? Stas? What's going on?
+
+[20:50] Oh, we're on. We're doing a show. What? I went to Baba last night. Yeah, how was it?
+
+[20:56] It was good. It was really good. It felt very cozy. Yeah. Well, what do you mean cozy?
+
+[21:01] Like just felt friendly or like cramped? Like lively. Yeah. Yeah. But the whole room, there was every everyone was in the room, like uh Wiley, Chesare.
+
+[21:11] Nice. And when Mark came out to hug me, it's like the whole room went to look like oh yeah, showtime. Side were you getting side eye, stink eye, or stinky side eye? All for those of you that don't know, Mark Ladner, who reopened and is now the owner, I guess, of along with some partners, Babbo, the restaurant that, you know, whatever. Uh and Nastasia went out for many years and started a pasta restaurant called Pasta Flyer.
+
+[21:39] So that's the history there. Right? Yeah. You say that's a neutral way to put it. Yeah.
+
+[21:44] Yeah. And the a lot of his recipes are the pasta flyer recipes. I could taste it. Yeah. Oh, geez, Louise.
+
+[21:50] Let's have shade. No, it's okay. It's not necessarily. Let's have shade? It's awesome.
+
+[21:55] All right. And uh, was this friends and family or real? No, real. Yeah? Uh did you have the eight million layer lasagna?
+
+[22:02] Let me ask you a question. Since, you know, whatever. You're an all art. How many layers are actually in the highest? I don't know how many.
+
+[22:06] I don't know. It's more like 20, right? I don't know. No. No, no.
+
+[22:10] It's actually a hundred. It's not a hundred layers. No, it is. What does that mean? Like a layer of Pam?
+
+[22:14] Do you spray a layer of Pam down? Because you have to slice them with a special knife to get all hundred and then lay it on its side and then sear it. It was actually a hundred. I d I don't believe that. Unless someone someone asked him, I don't believe, I don't believe you.
+
+[22:35] What do you count as a layer? To me, a lasagna layer is every pasta layer. Correct. So even if you were to say meat sauce lasagna as one layer, that would require 33 such stacks. Correct.
+
+[22:48] Or if you were to do cheese as a fourth layer, you get 25 layers of pasta. I do not believe there's a hundred layers of pasta. Um there's a photo of it in the Del Posto cookbook that I remember I was like, let me count. Yeah, don't believe everything you read, man. No, you see a photo of it.
+
+[22:59] Yeah. All right. Um it's exceptional. And and the the layers are like ephemerally thin. I see.
+
+[23:15] It would have to be. And it's in a special tray and it's like this five. Hey. And there's skewers in it, and you gotta slice it and then pull it out. It's a whole process.
+
+[23:24] It's the nothing about it is like convenient. Yeah. Here's the thing that like lasagna doesn't do like the gold does. You can layer gold together and like hammer it out to one molecule thick, but pasta don't work like that. A hundred's a lot.
+
+[23:39] The whole thing's a lot. All right. Uh all right. So uh anything else you want to call out of Baba or anything else you've done in the in the past week? No.
+
+[23:48] No. I know people don't like hearing about it. So how would you know whether people like hearing about that if you never talk about it? We got feedback. Listen, from one person, it's like, oh my god.
+
+[23:57] Oh my god. What about you, John? What do you got for me? Um, brought the Carbonara back. Oh, good.
+
+[24:04] Yeah. This is a tasty dish. Who doesn't like Carbonara? And well, if you don't eat meat. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[24:10] Whereas you're vegan. That's fair. That's fair. That's fair. A vegan carbonara, I mean, you have to design it, but if you were to just do a straight swap out on on on the on the line, we're gonna need a carbonara, make it vegan.
+
+[24:22] What? No. Um, yeah, other than that, nothing else. Just getting ready for the holidays with administrative nonsense. Oh, that sounds fun.
+
+[24:33] Yeah, it's the best. The best. All right. Uh, and Quinn, what do you got? I know you I know you've got some stuff.
+
+[24:39] You've been saving. Oh, yeah, I got you know, you know me. Uh actually I made Carbonara on Sunday for some friends, and I couldn't resist uh guilding the lily. I added a little bit of a uh saffron infusion to the dish. It looked ridiculous.
+
+[25:00] Ridiculous good or ridiculous bad. Good. Good. I mean, like it made there was like a there was like a neon yellow. Right, because there's there's ridiculous, and then there's ridiculous.
+
+[25:16] You know what I mean? Like it could be either way. You know what I mean? But have you done the side by side that everyone asked you for? I don't know how many weeks ago.
+
+[25:24] I'll tell you what, I mean, like, you know, I know you're on a remote island there, but Iranium Saffron is close. It's close to you via internets. You know what I'm saying? I know, I still got to get some. Yeah, you know, here's a here here's how long it takes.
+
+[25:40] Beep deep, beep, beep, send. That's it. You know what I mean? That's all. That's all it takes.
+
+[25:47] A lot easier than sourcing British Columbia hothouse grown crocus crocus parts. Anyway, I told the head of the museum, so uh Nasley uh par uh Parvis when uh I was at the gala right after the uh show where you were mentioning the British Columbian saffron, and she went like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So uh by the way, uh for those who are Mofad fans, you can head on over to Empire Stores, I believe is what the entire complex is called. It's in Dumbo.
+
+[26:18] It's where the timeout market is. And on the second floor, you have to search to find it. But on the second floor is a museum of food and drink. And our current exhibition, which opened this weekend, I believe, right? Yep.
+
+[26:30] Is uh called Oh my God, I can't believe the name of it just went out of my head. It's called what's the heck is it called? Street Food City. And it's uh it's it's you know, you you delve so much into the actual part, because I'm on the exhibition committee of what's going on that I I lose sight of the of the big of the big things. Anyway, uh it's a history of street food in New York from the very beginnings until today.
+
+[26:54] So, you know, for instance, you want to know how much uh how much someone can actually make out of a hot dog cart, go to the museum and find out. You want to know like why hot dogs or like you know what other street foods we used to have here? Um, you know, so it talks about the shift from people actually buying the majority of their groceries on the street, like it's the pushcar kind of era, where people would buy their fruit and veg on the street. Who do I know that hates veg as a term? The same kind of person hates veg, also hates protein as a term for proteins.
+
+[27:23] You know what I mean? There's a serious group of haters out there, anyway. Uh so I I recommend uh that you uh go see. We have virtual reality garbage for those of you that love virtual reality. It's not garbage.
+
+[27:34] You know what I mean? When I say garbage, I mean stuff. It's like if I wasn't on this show, I would call everything sugar honey iced tea, and then I have to tell people I'm not insulting your filth. It's just what I call everything. You know what I mean?
+
+[27:45] Sugar honey, I see. Why haven't we seen a baked potato cart? Nope, they exist. I've seen them spud uh not Spud Brothers, because that's someone in England, but there is there is a brothers something cart here. Sweet potato from a cart in Japan before.
+
+[28:04] Uh, and sweet potato carts used to be a thing here and are still in some places in the in the U.S., you know what I would never buy from a cart? A sweet potato. What am I gonna do with it? See, I like the idea of of a potato cart, and they have like a few different sauces, and you just get the potato and you get your chili sauce on it, or your sour cream and olive oil, or your cheddar cheese, or some kind of different or just salt and butter, but different sauces, and you just get a baked potato, boom. And I'm just surprised it's not more popular.
+
+[28:31] Here's the thing about baked potatoes, right? Uh, and Nastasia's gonna hard agree with me on this, and Ariel's fresh to this conversation, so are you, Nick, right? Uh, but when you're ordering something on the street, how about you buy something you can eat while you're walking? So he's gonna want to eat it before the Billy James. Before the show, again, exactly.
+
+[28:51] And what did you what did you think about that, Sas? He really effed us. Yeah, because what do you when you order something on the street? Then you went in by yourself to go watch the show while Dave and I were dealing with the toilet water ticket for like 30 minutes. Yeah.
+
+[29:06] Hand foods, people. Hand foods. I could walk eating a half of a baked potato with some chili on it, walking with a spoon with a spoon. Yeah, no, this is this is like buying a hot dog in Chicago or Toronto, and it's like you just have to you have to walk with your face like way over your body so that like the the crap dripping off of your hot dog hits the ground instead of your body, and you're feeding half the animals in the neighborhood. I just don't get it.
+
+[29:30] So, what is your ideal truck or cart food? Hmm. First of all, Ariel, where do you weigh on on this? But here's my other issue with potatoes. Unless I can go back and hit the bar again, it's very hard to get enough crap onto a potato to make me happy with it all the way through.
+
+[29:46] And before we even go into that, Nastasia. Do you want to know what the secret of that is? What? The first thing you do is douse it with olive oil. Oh my god.
+
+[29:54] And the oil kind of permeates through the whole thing, and then you sauce on top. Oh, also here's a here's a tip. Because I've seen so many people mess this up. When you roast a potato, please do it this way. Make a slice, not all the way through, make make a like a slice, just like, you know, maybe a quarter of the way through, down like you're cutting a smile onto the top of it.
+
+[30:18] Then put both fingers, put like make make two triangles with your with your two hands, put them on the two ends of the potato and push. 100%. And that will break up, it'll puff it up, and that will allow you, should you want to do the nick, to get into all those nooks and cranes because you will have shattered the entire interior of the potato and kind of it's like you fluff a pillow. Open it up. You've presented it to your face.
+
+[30:41] Yes. And to that's so important. Yeah. To do that correctly. Like a British jacket potato kind of.
+
+[30:49] Well, I don't know what those lousy Brits do. Yes. Which is just which is just it is just it is just a baked potato, but they cut like I think they cut a cross in the top, actually. And that's a mistake. You don't need you don't need the cross piece.
+
+[31:00] I know what you're talking about. I've seen it. Not even a lot of you don't need two cuts, you need one cup. Yeah, you can do two cuts. I'm not gonna get mad if someone does it.
+
+[31:07] Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah, it should blossom upwards, not splatter outwards. Correct, correct. And if you were smart, you oiled the potato beforehand.
+
+[31:15] First of all, yeah, and so and the salt sticks to the oil, right? And then you get a beautiful salt crust on the top, which is also nice. You should also have punctured the top of the potato a couple of times with a fork, right? And for God's sakes, don't wrap it. I don't know what moron where and you know, look, your grandma told you to do it.
+
+[31:37] I'm not saying that your grandma is a moron. I'm saying some moron told your grandma to do it. Don't wrap the potato. I've done the studies. If you happen to have you don't like you don't like steamed dirt.
+
+[31:44] Yeah, right. Or like, yeah, that takes forever to cook, right? Yeah, no, I don't like any of that, right? The only the only aluminum foil, if you happen to be uh a set designer and you have Roscoe brand black lighting foil, it won't hurt your potato as much because it's got like it's basically it's it's a complete absorber of energy, right? So it's but aluminum foil is literally saying to your potato heat, nah.
+
+[32:18] Nah. It's reflecting all of the infrared radiation that is coming off of your oven, doing its best to try to cook your potato in a timely fashion. And does anyone ever say, you know what? I wish this potato was? You know what I wish this potato was, Ariel?
+
+[32:33] I wish it was wetter. Does anyone say that? No, because what you want to do is add sour cream to it. If it needs to be wetter, you want it wetter with sour cream. And olive oil.
+
+[32:40] And olive oil. Yeah. Anyway. Um these are my thoughts. But Saz, let's go back.
+
+[32:47] So if someone, if someone hands you a, and I understand why when you're serving something on the street, you would wrap something in aluminum foil because you're keeping it hot all day long. A bacon egg and cheese wrapped in aluminum foil is a superior product five minutes later than one serve fresh. That is a strong opinion, but uh you do want to see it slightly. Uh but but wrapping something in aluminum foil, the same reason it's bad to cook something in aluminum foil is the same reason it's good to wrap something in aluminum foil once it is cooked, because it will keep the heat inside, right? It'll also prevent moisture evaporation.
+
+[33:18] Amalgamation. Right. So wrapping in aluminum foil, things cool much more slowly when wrapped in aluminum foil than when not wrapped in uh aluminum foil. Uh just a fact. It's it's just physics, right?
+
+[33:31] So if something's someone's gonna keep something warm all day long, aluminum foil. So if you're gonna get like uh sweet potato on the street, right? Wrap it in aluminum foil, and plus then they can cook it for a long time low and get it to candy itself and all this. Besides, what do you do with one when you get it? Just eat it?
+
+[33:46] I guess. Just like a whole sweet potato? Yeah, yeah. You just it's just not in my it's just not in my brain to want to do that. You know what I mean?
+
+[33:56] Like I will have two bites of that sweet potato, and those two bites, I'll be like, that's great. And then the third bite, I'll be like, that's okay. And then the fourth bite, I'll be like, can does anyone else want sweet potato? You know, you know, you know what I mean? It's it's not that I don't like them.
+
+[34:11] I like finite quantities of them. Is that fair? Isn't that true with everything? No, potatoes, I could eat an infinite amount of potatoes. Infinite.
+
+[34:17] Um, given the right toppings. Like if you swap the toppings out as you go, it's kind of like swimming, right? It's like it's just like oh in through the potato. You know what I mean? I don't love I don't love fry you said fries.
+
+[34:31] No, because it's potatoes. Who else doesn't like fries? I'm not a big fry guy. The one behind you, Mistake Lopez. I don't know why they're so like everyone frightened.
+
+[34:39] Okay, after a few bites, I'm like, the saltiness is burning my throat. Well, that's because they oversalted them, dude. That's part of the problem. Uh well, do you eat them with mayonnaise? Mayonnaise and vinegar, I love.
+
+[34:51] Well, you're like, oh, my mouth hurts, but you douse your fries and vinegar. I love I love the mayo. Um, no, it's just fries. They're just they're just kind of dumb. Oh my I agree, Nick.
+
+[35:02] I agree. Just like television. Yeah. Television's dumb? No one even watches it anymore.
+
+[35:07] Or do you mean moving pictures? Uh I don't like these moving pictures. Give me still images. Is that what you're saying, Stuff? No, the the idea of everyone going home and sitting in front of their Netflix.
+
+[35:19] And ordering their fries from the seamless app. It's just a sick culture. Order Listen, delivery fries are never going to be God's fries. Delivery food, it's so crazy. People spend, you know, to eat out to get food from an establishment, you pay top dollar.
+
+[35:34] And then people do that and then have it like slowly brought to them in this like unappealing way. Yeah. It's just a fascinating thing. I agree. You know what no one ever does when I've asked what people want?
+
+[35:45] Think about that. Right. Hey, like a lot of like American Chinese food is good, not all of it, a lot of it's terrible, but a lot of it is good sitting in a bucket, right? If you have something that was made in a bucket, then it can hold in a bucket on its way to you, right? If you order something that came out of a deep fryer or that was roasted to perfection, it was not cooked in a bucket and therefore should not be placed in a bucket for 45 minutes before you eat it.
+
+[36:14] You know what I mean? Yeah. But no one ever, I think this is a catering problem, too, right? When you're catering, you have different problems than when you are cooking something a minute, right? And people want to cook the things they want to cook instead of thinking about what is the thing that will be best using the techniques that I have to do.
+
+[36:34] Correct. Right. Uh and I think the same as delivery. So it's like anybody who makes a sandwich on a baguette because a baguette is classy, but it is like the uh absolute enemy of proper sandwich engineering. Yeah.
+
+[36:47] Well, I I I agree. First of all, like, unless it's a Zemon Burr, maybe. But uh well, unless it's but anything where you have to like bite through it so hard that everything's going to explode out the side, it's like, why did you make that into a sandwich? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[37:01] Baguette also too narrow, yeah, too narrow and too hard. So if it's a good baguette, it's a bad sandwich. Not unless it's a merguez and fritz sandwich. Then the baguette is the correct one because of the shape of their merguez. And do you hollow it out a little bit so that doesn't fly off the edges?
+
+[37:20] I love the hollowing of upper realms. But going back to Denmark, hollowing of the upper realms. That's your Lord of the Rings sequel. Uh the in in Copenhagen, they have what they call uh I don't know what the word in Danish is, but they call it a hot dog and a baguette. But spoiler alert, not good.
+
+[37:38] And even bigger spoiler alert, not a baguette. Just a baguette-looking tube that was made for the for the hot dog. Do you agree with me on this, uh, Ariel? Yeah, I don't know why anyone would order that when the like hot dog on a regular bun with like ketchup, mustard, remoulade, pickles, and crispy onions is available, which is the Copenhagen hot dog. So yeah, the Copenhagen hot dog that they get is really nice.
+
+[38:04] The Copenhagen hot dog I had was and the the lady, I was like, this is me being a a jerk, right? I said to her, I was like, hey, do you speak English? And she's like, yeah. I'm like, okay, cool. I was like, is there lye or any other alkaline solution that's been applied to this bun?
+
+[38:19] And she's like, no. And I'm like, really? And she's like, what do you mean? And I was like, like a pretzel. It's very brown.
+
+[38:26] And she's like, leave. You know what I mean? But they had these like dark buns, but they had sesames on them instead of salt. So they have this really cool thing at the Christmas market where they do like uh what amounts to a giant Weber grill with uh two layers and a tripod of chain in between those two layers so that they can crank almost like South American style, they can crank the grill up and down, and then they have a giant bed of coals, and then they just have their their sausages just chilling on that. Their hot dog is larger than ours, whatever they call their hot dog of note, uh this good one, and it's served on this Pulsa.
+
+[39:03] What say it again? Pulsa. Yeah, good, real good. Had one. It's a hot dog.
+
+[39:10] Real good. So pull pulsa vagin is a uh hot dog cart. And for John, who I know follows these kinds of things, when they roast them like this, you get some splitting, but it's fairly controlled along the thing, so you'll get like a triple split, so it's not like a total like ripper like like people do, it's not like fry, but you get some splitting along the thing, but they don't look banged up by any by any stretch of the imagination. And then you yeah, you put this what they call, I guess, a remoulade on it, and out of the most disgusting condiment dispensers, it's it's you'd like it, Nick. It's basically it's like a cow udder.
+
+[39:44] Yeah. It's a porno film for condiments. When you when people b bang into the table, it's like and then you grab this like you know, babes in toyland device and squeeze it and let condiment comes out of it. It's just not right. No, no aspect of it is okay.
+
+[40:04] You know what I mean? For children. It just doesn't work. But uh the people seem to enjoy it over there. I don't know.
+
+[40:11] You know, different cultures, yeah, true. Uh all right, Ariel, what do you have for the weekend review? By the way, did we get all this all out of just Quinn saying that he used saffron? Yes. Did we even get to like No.
+
+[40:26] All right? All right, Quinn, what else what else you got? Well again, I did uh after last week's show I tasted the saffron custard gelato. That was also very good. What does that mean though?
+
+[40:42] Good, like like what what what made you want to have saffron in it? Like what was it about the saffron that made it good? Uh I think the um saffron enhanced the sort of egg y richness of the custard, I would say. Because of the color, is it a mental thing, or do you think in actuality the flavor? You think if you had tasted it without looking at it, do you think that they would have done what?
+
+[41:14] Because I also felt felt we had again last week I talked about we did we did the Milanese um risotto, and I thought that also had a sort of brioche egg-y like richness, and there was no eggs in that recipe at all. So I think that's a similar note I was picking up on in the custard. So for those of you that have never been to the United States, our eggs here are pretty light yellow. Like when you make a scrambled egg, the yolks are not like super punchy. And when you go abroad, sometimes they're almost carrot orange.
+
+[41:57] What do you guys think? Do you like that color? I demand a carrot orange egg in my life to enjoy eggs. Huh. Huh.
+
+[42:05] Huh. What about the rest of the crew? Where you guys sit? I mean, I like it, but I love carotenoids, so I'm pro. It's a great word because it sounds bad, but isn't.
+
+[42:14] Sounds like it's rotten. That reddish? Yeah. That reddish orange color. Uh well, that's also call back to ginkgo leaves.
+
+[42:31] That that yellow also comes from. Beautiful carotenoids. There you go. But don't eat the ginkgo leaves, as far as I know. I mean they may not poison you, but they may not be delicious.
+
+[42:39] But it's better not to. Do you know what's a good tree leaf to eat in the spring? Uh lindens, aka basswoods. They're a good early leaf. They're not bad.
+
+[42:55] Not fantastic. What does it taste like? Almost nothing. You know what I mean? But like they're a fine salad thing to like, you know, add add a thing.
+
+[43:03] They're not they're not overwhelming. They they're not I don't remember them being like overly slippery the way that like a sassafras leaf is or something like this. Um what about you, Ariel? What you got uh what do you got for the weekend review? Um not as many food things.
+
+[43:20] I did see uh waiting for gato with uh Keanu Reeves and Alex Winter on uh on Saturday, which was great. Oh my god, I did not know that existed. So it's Bill and Ted's excellent waiting for for Gato. Oh my god. Exactly.
+
+[43:34] Exactly. Did were they allowed to change? When I read it in college, I couldn't really Yeah. Yeah, were they allowed to change? Everything else was played totally straight.
+
+[43:45] So no f no moment. Yeah. No fruit. No so crates, no fruit. Like and uh no, no, no.
+
+[43:54] But uh but the vibes were there. Nice. Nice. That's awesome. Yeah, here's another question that might be for you, uh, Ariel from Desert Platypus.
+
+[44:05] Uh Desert Platypus is a huge tiki and trock uh tropical cocktail nerd and uh incidentally a relatively frequent consumer of those beverages. Uh uh their girlfriend, however, doesn't drink at all and is somehow enthusiastic about this style of cocktail, and when and Platypus would like to make a proper Mai Thai uh but doesn't know what to substitute for that funky Jamaican rum character. Uh my problem with it is it's never gonna get like cold enough, and because my thai is usually served pretty sure on rocks, uh it's not ever going to necessarily I I don't know how you're going to get it to taste like a proper cocktail. This is why I don't do stirred or served on rock drinks. In fact, it's carbonated, bilts, so it is on a rock, that's a lie.
+
+[44:49] But like I I I haven't done good non-alks that are either stirred or shaken, other than drinks that are foamed. Like like I can do foamy shaken drinks, non-alk, but I've never made so I would recommend making flavors of my thai with foam. But what they want to know is how to mimic hogo. And I have never seen like a good non-alk kind of hogo sub. Have you ever heard of one, uh, Ariel?
+
+[45:15] I have never seen one. Um hogo really just comes from ethyl esters, which are like uh well, they're produced by yeast during fermentation, but they're also in fruits. Um and I I mean I've actually played with her though some uh like bought in all of you know uh uh ethyl butyrate and ethyl hexanolate and ethyl uh octinoid. So there's like kind of a a series of them that's like the tail gets longer. Um and if you like make the blend uh of them in the proportions that they're in rum and then add it to say vodka if you're trying to make instant hogo it does not taste like rum it tastes like 2D fruity chewing gum um but once you once if you mix it with like a much blander rum but still has that kind of like molasses y backbone to it that combination of uh those like very fruity esters and that kind of like brown uh sugar caney uh quality makes makes the hobo kind of smack into place did you try it with just molasses properly but no not with just molasses but um I would imagine like uh uh if you could like get actually like quite quite kind of like a basic fruity flavors um and then do uh if not molasses then like uh I think like like a little bit of oolong tea plus like some brown sugar could work quite well to kind of like get in the ballpark.
+
+[46:35] Um but it yeah if you're trying to imitate it that that does this kind of like almost obnoxious bubblegum 2D fruity and would do a kind of like uh do you think those things would be soluble in glycerin could you get glycerate versions of of those could you make uh an Ariel Johnson flavor on the instant hogo with some like molasses I've got to do this. Yeah no I'm I'm I'm they're not the percentages are fairly high but not like insanely brand that get the get the get the flavor on a ho instant hogo. Thank you thank you for the business idea. What do you say Quinn? I wonder if I wonder if clarified like very ripe banana would be a good basic liquid.
+
+[47:20] What it tastes like bananas though. I mean, so yeah, very would have a lot of those evaluators. It also like has a really strong uh uh isomamal acetate. That the kind of banana note of banana is is a slightly different ester. I mean, it could work.
+
+[47:37] Um, but I I almost feel like uh like if you could get a durian that is slightly less onion-y, it's almost closer to durian than banana. Which I know might might be a fallacy, a slightly less oniony durian. If you pressure cook durian, some of the weirdness goes away. So I wonder if you did pressure cooked, like clarified durian. But that's going a long way.
+
+[48:00] It's going a long way. That is going a long way. But it it I guess it depends on how much he loves his girlfriend. Because pressure cooking, pressure cooking modifies like preferentially seems to modify because Ariel will correct me on this, but uh a lot of the sulfur compounds are not very stable. And so like they'll get transmogrified.
+
+[48:20] Yeah, they'll get transmogrified just by jacking the temperature, the you know, 20 extra degrees Fahrenheit that you get in uh or 30 degrees extra Fahrenheit that you get in a pressure cooker, can m very like violently modify the sulfur-based aroma compounds in a lot of these products. And a lot of the stinkophint in durian is our sulfur compounds. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes, yes, that's why they kind of are reminiscent of like onions or alliums a bit.
+
+[48:52] Yeah. Uh and also same with acetata. So, like if you're gonna do if you're so acetata, which is you know, aka hing, which is like underused in Western food applications and actually works really, really well. Don't buy the pre-powdered stuff if you can avoid it. Buy like the the resin blocks that you then grate.
+
+[49:11] You know what I mean? But uh that stuff I think like responds very well to like a little bit of cooking. So like a little bit of you know what I mean? So like I I have never pressure cooked acetata. I think I think I've never either, but uh no, I mean I've heard that like really it's like if you're using it raw, you're not getting like the full it needs like at least a little bit of cooking, but I'd be wary of pressure cooking it without a test.
+
+[49:37] But asophetida grated over a roast chicken. So like when you're doing your skin prep, whatever you're doing, drying it, rubbing painting butter on it, salt and pepper, just grate a little like acetata over the skin choice. Uh I used I had a recipe the Times was almost going to publish called Numidian Chicken, which was a uh an apicious recipe that I had uh tried to make modern. And it it they used what they called laser, which they made uh extinct. So like, you know, we modern folk aren't the first people to drive.
+
+[50:11] Uh yeah, right. And someone thinks over the past five years, they think that they've actually found the plant that was that, but I don't know whether anyone's done more research on it or not. But it's whatever it actually is, it's very closely related to acetata. So the standard substitution when you're gonna make Roman recipes that require quote unquote sylphium or laser, is to use asophetida, aka hing, which is compounded. I don't know if you can find gluten-free because most of them are compounded with flour.
+
+[50:39] But I uh I don't I haven't researched gluten-free hing. Maybe I should. Um, for the oil and flavor chemistry people, we have Josh uh from Tampa. Hey, uh, I'm a high school culinary teacher and we participate in competitions every year. We're looking at making a an her and herb oil or a herb an herb oil.
+
+[50:59] An herb oil. Okay. All right. Uh that's nice and green, but we're not allowed to use a blender or anything that uses electricity or a slash battery operated. What would be the best way to get a green herb oil with no blender?
+
+[51:14] Now I was just gonna say like uh what's it called? Mortar and pestle and then gr pre-grind it and then do it. But do you like and maybe even use dried because it's not gonna like degrade as much. But like what do you guys think, being oil and chemistry people? Um, I would say to do that, you want to use the dried herbs because you don't want the water content in the oil.
+
+[51:36] Right. Right. And it won't oxidize, uh not oxidize, it won't it won't polyphenol oxidase itself while you're doing it. And you don't want to heat up the olive oil because you'll degrade the properties of the olive oils. You want to do it ideally in its raw state.
+
+[51:49] Right. I'm assuming, yeah, no, no battery. They can't use a spinzall, which is what Nastasi and I would use. Right. Uh Spinzall.com.
+
+[51:56] Uh well, what do you think, Ariel? Um, well, okay, so they like with with with an herb oil, I think they want both like a very bright green color as well as like an herb aroma. I would I would guess. Presumably. Unless no one's gonna taste it.
+
+[52:13] If it's just gonna be on camera, that's a different thing. Yeah. Yeah, I guess I wonder how much of that color is gonna come across from like a dried herb and how much of the chlorophyll is already gonna be uh it's actually not oxidized, it's a reduction reaction that turns chlorophyll brown. Um but uh yeah, I would say just like if you're gonna use fresh herbs, um uh and uh sorry sorry, Nick, maybe maybe doing a combination of like very nice olive oil and a neutral oil, heating the neutral oil up a bit to uh kind of uh uh inactivate those enzymes, uh and also like soften the uh herb leaves a bit and then like grinding it and then straining. What about the old chef trick instead of heating the oil just the steaming or blanching the herb.
+
+[53:04] Yeah, deck a wood. Yeah. As far as the green color, if you get a early harvest oleo nuovo, that would give you a really green color. Yeah. Uh that there you go.
+
+[53:15] What do you say, Quinn? What about like a hot neutral oil, curve we drive off the moisture yourself, grind that up, and then filter it. Yeah, I think that's what Ariel said. Like use a comedy. One practical practical recommend uh practical not chemistry recommendation, but practical recommendation is don't filter it in a coffee filter.
+
+[53:38] That's the worst way to filter herb oil. Use a uh a very clean dish towel. Yeah, you know, okay, listen. I hate coffee filters. I hate coffee filters so much.
+
+[53:47] Yeah, I hate coffee filters so much. I They're perfect, they're good for coffee and for nothing else. I hate them. Hate. Go buy they're so free now.
+
+[54:01] They're so free. Just go buy a couple of nut milk bags off of Amazon. Here's what you need to be careful of. When people do the nut milk bags, the poor quality ones have holes in the stitching. And when you squeeze on them there, you'll extrude crap through those places in the bad stitching.
+
+[54:18] But it once you find a good quality bag, also write on it what it's uh what its filter size is in Sharpie because some bag manufacturers don't put labels on them and say what they are. Um yeah, nut milk bags, dude. Don't c coffee filter is like a coffee filter. So someone said to me, like, why do you hate I I get vi violently angry when I'm walking in a crowd and the crowd is in front of me and I can't walk freely. And someone's like, Why do you get so angry?
+
+[54:48] Just slow down. I was like, No, I hate it. I hate it. By the way, if you're visiting our quote unquote fair city during this holiday season, you may only walk two abreast. Okay?
+
+[54:58] That is the limit. You may walk two people side by side. And if it's very crowded, just stop talking to the person you're with and go single file. You don't own the whole sidewalk. And I guarantee you, you are slower than some of us who are here.
+
+[55:13] Do not block the whole sidewalk. Don't just stop on the sidewalk. Oh, but also don't stop at the top of Subway State Stairs. Are you speaking from Rockefeller Center right now? Yes.
+
+[55:25] So people think I'm a monster. So you're a glutton for punishment. Yeah, right. Like when I was younger, I before like public violence became a thing we all actually had to worry about in our real lives, and you could josh about such things, right? I I used to want to make something called the Christ machete so that you can make it through Rockefeller Center during the holiday season.
+
+[55:46] Because just people are inappropriate. Here's what you do. This entire area is full of things like planters, like little areas, nooks, crannies, fire hydrants. When you need to stare at your freaking phone, stand, just duck into one of those little non-traffic areas. There are areas, and also when you go to a buffet at a restaurant or like a hotel buffet, there are action areas and there are thinking areas.
+
+[56:14] Do not stand and think in an action area. The area next to the egg bar where I need to get whatever toppings are gonna go on my egg, that is an action area. That is not a place to think. This man in no way represents my thoughts or ideas. You disagree with me.
+
+[56:31] You're sitting here nothing. I think what's uh what I find so fun is that everyone has the right to kind of do and operate however they want, even if it inconveniences you. That's not the case at all. That is the case. That's not the case.
+
+[56:44] There's no law that says people can't walk arm in arm four at a time. There's no law that says I can't walk down the street coated in my own poop. It doesn't mean that it's good from a social standpoint for me to do so. What position are you to be delegating social standpoint issues? When your stink makes it to my face, that's when it becomes an issue.
+
+[57:02] When you stop me from being efficient in my food gathering, that means you have damaged me. So I organize my life. What a fragile man you are. How am I fragile? An aroma is so offensive that you have to delegate that they have to do a certain thing because an aroma offends you.
+
+[57:19] You're so you're so uh entitled that you think that you can walk around and do something. I am libertarian I'm I'm just a I'm just a complex man. Yeah, okay. I'm saying it's like there's certain things that you can't, for instance. Here's a question for the for the groom.
+
+[57:34] Here's a question for the room, and then we have to eat your olive oil because we're gonna be out. Here's the question for the room. When you go to that coffee machine, not that it makes great coffee, I'm not getting into that argument, but when you're at the hotel and you go to the coffee machine and it sits there and it takes like 30 to 40 seconds to make a cup. What is the maximum number of cups you can make if there's someone waiting behind you? As many as you know.
+
+[57:55] No, two! You can make two who are you? Someone who cares about other people, Nick. Someone who cares about other people. Now, what oil do you have today?
+
+[58:06] We're gonna taste a very nice single estate Chilean olive oil, and it has a grassy herbaceous quality to it because it's harvested when the olives are young. See, I allow the different producers to do what they want with their olives. And then they create products, and then we determine in society who wants it or not. So different producers do different things, and I don't ever tell a producer what to do. I let the producer do what they do, and then I assess whether I want to engage with it or not.
+
+[58:35] This is not but I'm all for that. But what I was saying before is not in contradiction to that. Don't what? Oh, I mean, they're allowed to do whatever they want, but not if they want to sell it to you. That's true.
+
+[58:49] They can try. And they're not allowed to make it. I know what I'm saying is like it might be illegal or it might not be illegal for people to walk for a breast on the sidewalk, but it is also not illegal for me to call them like every curse word I can't say on the show. Yes, that's what I'm saying. Through our differences, we will find some sort of way to exist.
+
+[59:08] But we can't be telling other people what to and not to do if they're not violating any laws. That's what I'm saying. You're so you're saying the only mores are legally that's crazy. I'm not saying that, and that's a problem with semantics. I'm not gonna try to determine everything.
+
+[59:27] And yes, correct. Just because it's not illegal is not ethical, but like Dave Arnold telling me how to live also isn't ethical. No, I'm just telling you what we're all thinking who live here. You might come here, and this is Nick doing his nick tasting. You come to this city, you might not know that you're making the people who actually live here virulently angry.
+
+[59:44] I like being angry. It's good for the it's good for the body. Then you should be more like me. You know, you know, I think there is a there's there is a uh there's there's a picky statement that was figured out thousands of years ago for the situation, which is when in Rome. Yeah.
+
+[1:00:04] When in Rome, when in New York. And when in Rome, don't walk for abreast. Probably there too, although I haven't been to Rome in a long time. Hey, thanks, Ariel. Thanks, Nick, thanks everyone.
+
+[1:00:14] Be back next week with all tangent Tuesday cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you from the heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Sending New York City and New Stam Studios. Join as usual with John, how you doing? Doing yeah, fine. Thanks.
+
+[0:23] Got Joe Hazenrock in the panels. What's up? Hey, how are you doing? Doing all right, doing all right. And in Los Angeles, we have uh Jackie Molecules.
+
+[0:33] How you doing, Jack? Good. Yeah, have you for at least a portion of the show? I appreciate it. And we have, of course, the inimitable Nastasia DeHammer Lopez.
+
+[0:43] How you doing? I'm good. Sound it. And then uh in the upper left on Vancouver Island, we have Quinn. How you doing?
+
+[0:53] Hey, I'm good. Yeah? Great. All right. So uh this is a an all-tangent uh Tuesday, so we can do whatever we want.
+
+[1:00] If you have any questions that are tangent related, you're listening live on Patreon. Call in your questions to 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507. And John, why don't you tell them why they might want to do such a thing and what they get by joining the Patreon? Well, if you go to Patreon.com slash cooking issues, you blah cooking issues, you can see everything for yourself.
+
+[1:20] Uh, we got three different membership levels. Each membership level uh comes with access to our Discord. You get prioritized uh questions being answered, which is great for the holiday season. Um you get discounts with Kitchen Arts and Letters, which is also great for the holiday season, um, amongst a whole bunch of other things. So check it out.
+
+[1:37] Cooking or Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Speaking of Patreon, we had a question from Patreon, Matt from Mystic, known Matt a long time. Matt wanted us prior to Thanksgiving to do a uh a Monroe Boston Strauss pie crust primer, right? And I feel like the rest of you would kill me if I went on a deep dive on that. So maybe for Patreon, I'll just upload my Excel spreadsheet to it, right?
+
+[1:59] So if you want stuff on the Patreon, there's another Patreon pitch. If you want something on the Patreon like that, just give me a holler. Or if like, you know, I've done plenty of 3D modeling for things. If you want anything that we have or that we talk about, we can put it on Patreon. Is that not a true story, Quinn?
+
+[2:16] Yep. Yeah, again, we also have uh, you know, an archive of some things. We posted your uh two percenter recipe when that first came out. We have the um adjusted high calculator, which I did update. So it's up there as well.
+
+[2:34] Yeah, anything you want, you can just let us anything you want that it seems like we might have, we can put it there for you if you let us know. But you have to let us know because we're bad at just uh what's it proactively putting stuff out there? There we go. I really hate the word proactive. It just sucks.
+
+[2:48] It's just a bad word because it's been was so overused by business people. Like what what are the current words that people just tack on to things? Oh, I hate office talk. Yeah, synergy. Yeah, yeah, synergistic.
+
+[3:04] But hold up. Before we go off into a full tangent, Kitchen Arts and Letters pies. Everyone should sign up for Matt's uh newsletter because if you're interested in Monroe Boston Strauss and his book, he will be selling a uh first edition, second edition, what do you say? Uh no, it's not the 39, it's the it's the uh Aaron's press. So uh the the initial edition was put out by Baker's Helper.
+
+[3:27] Is that true? Or is Baker's Helper the other one? I think Baker's Helper was the other one. Shoot. Anyway, it's been a while since I researched it.
+
+[3:34] He he did a bunch of he he worked for two main trade magazines. Uh um, like uh America, what was it called? My why is that out of my head? The one that became Nation's restaurant news that was called like American Restaurant or something like that. Uh he did a series for them that became uh one book, and then he did a series for Baker's Helper that I think Baker's Helper is the one that became uh Pies Pies for Profit, which is another much harder to get book.
+
+[3:58] But the uh Pie Marches On came out in 39, I believe. And that I don't own it at 39 edition. The one that most of us have is the 51, 1951 edition. But whatever. Aaron Express.
+
+[4:11] Yeah. Already too much to say about my guy. Um, you know what? I've been to California several times. Nastasia won't let me do it because she it's not that she can stop me, but she gives me super stink eye because I firmly believe that one of his sons is in his mid-80s and is alive in Long Beach.
+
+[4:30] And so I'm like, California. And so I'm like, hey Stas, can't we go knock on this dude's door in Long Beach? You're so annoying. You're so annoying because you've been here many times and you haven't done it. Like you talk a big deal.
+
+[4:45] Because you know, you no, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You literally say to me, Don't do it. No, do it. Do it. I don't want to go with you.
+
+[4:52] Do it. Long Beach. Okay, go on going to Long Beach is like going to Philly when you're in New York or something. Is it that far? We've got time.
+
+[5:03] It's like an hour and change, depending on how where you are. And literally, I'd be ding-donging this guy's door. You know what I'm saying? Doesn't it sound worth it? I mean, I don't know if he's there.
+
+[5:15] I don't even know for certain if he is Monroe Boston Strauss's son. Sounds like you get a good instinct though, and intuition. You should lean into it. Yeah. With nostalgia.
+
+[5:26] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, sounds like it. Uh all right. So that said, what do we have uh for the week in review with you folks?
+
+[5:37] I think I can finally say it. Temperance is closing. Yeah. Hopefully not as soon as it's looking like. But uh yeah, it's been something that I've known about for two months now.
+
+[5:50] And yeah, the economy, um, you know, outside political factors, just a bunch of different things, and it uh very unfortunate, obviously. You know, anyone who's closed a restaurant knows. This is my first time doing it, and I had no idea. And yeah, going through it, it's uh it's not fun, not only for me, but also the rest of my staff who now have to like start looking for other work. Um yeah, so yeah, just uh not a fun situation.
+
+[6:16] Yeah, well, at least three of us here have done it. Yeah, yeah. Congrats to us all. Yeah, I'm sorry. It sucks.
+
+[6:25] It sucks real bad. You know? Yeah. You see what happens when you see what happens when you give uh full vote to friends and family. Yeah.
+
+[6:35] So for any of you who need to get your temperance on, yeah, hurry up. Yeah. And thanks to everyone who has been over the time that I've been there. Appreciate it. It's always nice seeing you guys.
+
+[6:45] So, what was your what were your favorite dishes that you made along the way? Nailing the Carbonat is always or uh the Carbonara has always been something that I've been really happy about. Um my fresh pastas have gotten a lot better. I did a really good um Zerbinati squash out of Italy, just really I don't know, intense squashy squash. Squashy mixed squash.
+
+[7:08] Yeah, with uh Louisiana blue crab and a pasta, and it was delicious. Best squash I ever had was the one Cesare used to grow on Thanksgiving Farm. Stas, how good was that squash? So good. So good.
+
+[7:21] In fact, it was so good, John, that Nastasi and I were there and they were like serving a big tray of squash. And Stassi and I'm like, the hell is this? What am I gonna do with this? Eat it? What the hell?
+
+[7:32] You just can't hand me a big tray of squash, right, Stas? Remember this? And we were like, Yes. And they were like, yeah. We're like, oh man, crap.
+
+[7:42] Okay. Squash. You know what I mean? It can be really good. Yeah.
+
+[7:46] I mean, it's good, but yeah, I'm not kidding. My wife likes it. My kid, both kids hate it. Like, you know, like you know how you have like a I told Dax he's allowed to have like one thing. Yeah.
+
+[7:55] Okay. That's his thing. Yeah. Fair squash. Especially, and this I don't understand how he doesn't like it.
+
+[8:00] Pumpkin soup. Yeah. And pumpkin soup, delicious. Yeah. What's not to like?
+
+[8:05] Because it doesn't have the texture that you wouldn't like. Yeah, it's true. I mean, what's what's to hate about? I mean, of course, I don't like melon. What's not to like about melon either, right?
+
+[8:15] Yeah. Um. Yeah. So what else? You got this fancy squash.
+
+[8:18] What else? Yeah, no, I don't know. That's it's Did you ever put a carbonate? Speaking of carbonat? Stuffed in a ravioli.
+
+[8:26] Which is still very good. It's actually one of the things people like the most. So remember the bull the bull authentic bull cook by uh by Herter, the crazy person from Minnesota, the crazy misogynist, racist, weirdo survivalist who wrote these insane cookbooks in the 60s. I think I remember you were hearing you talk about them, yeah. Yeah, they where it's all a bunch of historical lies.
+
+[8:47] Like, like you know, like this is like Joan of Arc's favorite sandwich, stuff like that. Okay, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stas. Yeah, some worse.
+
+[8:54] I saw he has a Carbonade recipe in it. No mustard. No bread. Not Carbonat. Nope, not Carbonade.
+
+[9:00] No. No mustard, no bread? Nope. Doesn't work that way. No carbonate.
+
+[8:59] Man, I'm gonna start making Carbonade again. That's the perfect time of year to be getting into it. Yeah. I have a pressure cooker carbonade recipe that is delicious that gets gets it just right. The issue, people who don't like pressure cooked stews, the issue is you haven't managed your moisture properly.
+
+[9:20] They're too watery. You have made it too watery. You've tried to take a brazing recipe and immediately put it into a pressure cooker. You have made a mistake. Maybe there's a recipe you could put up on the uh Discord or Patreon for everyone.
+
+[9:34] Yeah, yeah. I'll go look for it. Uh you know, I developed it years ago, but I'll, you know, we'll we'll do it. Like right after the pandemic, I uh developed it. Yeah, remember that.
+
+[9:41] Yeah. Yeah. Good. Now, of course, if you guys don't have the real God's mustard, you'll get close. Close, but no cigar.
+
+[9:49] No cigar. Uh all right, what do you what do you guys got? What do you got, Jack? So I um I I was tired of my you know, we I have the the crappy refrigerator debacle with my landlord. And uh of course the next thing here is the stove, which is just not like I don't know.
+
+[10:09] I got tired of uneven cooking, so I got myself a little induction burner, a little single just to supplement, and I'm out of the time of my life out here. Yeah, what uh time what uh what price-wise, what level of induction cooker is it? Is it IKEA? I've never used the Ikea one. No, it's not Ikea.
+
+[10:25] It was like 150 bucks. Uh duck's top, I think is the name of it. Um but man, yeah, after like after a few years of really bad old crappy stove, um, you know, gas stove cooking, like it's really nice to have a consistent center going. Yeah. So um I uh uh send me the the info on on yours.
+
+[10:45] I've only ever tried the I've only ever tried I've gone from like 2,000 and $1,500, like I've used cook techs that are like two, three grand. I've used like the I almost now exclusively use the the Breville poly science uh control freak, which is like 15, maybe it's come down, but it was like $1,500. And then I've only used other ones are like sub 100, and I can tell you all that the sub 100 ones don't tell you the truth about what they're doing. So if you uh you have I talked about kilowatts on the air before? Kilowatt, I think a lot of them.
+
+[11:23] So they're very cheap. I recommend you getting one if you care about like how these things work, which maybe is one or two of you. You what you do is you plug it into the wall and then you plug whatever appliance you want into the kilowatt and it says right on it how many watts it's pulling out of the wall. So you can get a very good yeah, right. So like what I did was is I would I was doing tests on um on power into in induction into pans at different levels to see how they heated at different levels, and I noticed that the cheap induction units all would give the amount of power they said they were gonna give for like 45 seconds, and then when the units heated up internally, they would throttle the power down.
+
+[12:03] So you can't just you can't trust them. You know what I mean? Now that was sub 100, so I don't know, like maybe your like ducks blat, what's it called? Ducksplat. Ducks top.
+
+[12:14] Um yeah, it's like a hundred four hundred and forty bucks or something. I mean, you know, I've um it I I didn't have fifteen hundred. I would love a really good one, but um, you know, this is better than what I had going. So yeah, induction the induction is the way. The only issue is is that if you have like non-induction cookware, it becomes a little bit of a pain because none of the converters are worth spit.
+
+[12:36] You know what I mean? So, like, you know, if you cook with low fire clay directly on on flames, or if you have um, you know, aluminum bottom cookedware without an induction plate, you know, you're kind of SOL. Luckily now, because so many people are on induction and because that's the way stuff are going, things that used to be non-induction, new versions of them are becoming induction. So you can now buy relatively inexpensive large pressure canners, which are almost exclusively made out of aluminum with an induction plate bonded to the bottom. In fact, I just got one now, and it was only, I think, $30 more than the all aluminum one was to have one that would work on induction, but is like, you know, five gallons.
+
+[13:17] You know what I mean? So uh, you know, things are things are moving that way for for those of you who are moving in the induction realm. How loud is it? How much of a does it make? Yeah, it's it's kind of loud.
+
+[13:32] Yeah, that's the other thing. Like uh some people can't tolerate it. But you know, since you've done so much live music, you can probably barely hear it. Oh god, yeah. Uh and and shout out to shout out to Sam, who is a uh friend of my girlfriend.
+
+[13:49] Uh well, I'm sorry, uh cousin or uncle of my friend of my girlfriend's. Well, can't talk. Um, and listener of cooking issues. And he was the one during the holidays that was like, What are you doing, man? Get get an induction partner.
+
+[14:01] Oh, thanks, Sam. Listen to us. Yeah, here we are. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[14:07] Exactly. You know, it's like I used to have, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna call out who it was. They're gone now, but we had a we had a boss, Nastasi and I, at one point, who would never listen to the experts that they hired, would only listen to outside people. Remember that, S. Yeah.
+
+[14:28] She'll eventually come back. No, who who was that? I can't think of who it is. We only ever had one boss together. And he's just trying to get me to trying to get me to speak ill, which I won't.
+
+[14:39] Which I won't. Um but it's like, you know what? If you're gonna hire someone who knows something, or if you're gonna work with someone, it's like you know, Booker does this all the time to me too. It's like, Dad, what do you know? I don't know.
+
+[14:49] This is just what I do for a living. What are you talking about? You know what I mean? What are you talking about? Anyway.
+
+[14:56] Uh if you hire people, if you hire someone, then you gotta trust what they say. Not that you need to try this wrong. Like obviously question everything, but like if you don't value the person's opinion that you've hired to be an expert, don't pay them. Don't pay them. Like don't get rid of them.
+
+[15:12] Break break ties. Anyway. Um, all right. What do you got, S well, speaking of that? Whenever I tell my mom uh cooking stuff that you say, she says, What does he know?
+
+[15:25] I'm older than him. Yeah. Yeah, that that that that makes that sense. Good argument. Yeah.
+
+[15:33] Um it's a great argument. Uh strong. So I saw Jack and his girlfriend um for dinner on Saturday, and we listened to the rant at the end of last week's cooking issue. So that was that was uh something. Yeah.
+
+[15:50] Yeah. So Dave was so right. Dave, Dave, you were so right. I couldn't I couldn't believe it. Oh well, thank you.
+
+[15:57] Appreciate it. See, I appreciate see, I appreciate it. Uh and like, you know, here's the thing, right? We all love Nick. We all love Nick Coleman, Mr.
+
+[16:05] Olive Oil. He wants to come back on and actually talk about olive oil. So like, right, which I was like, fine, great. We'll come back, talk about olive oil, start the olive oil early, right? Uh but now whenever I see people on the street, and by the way, it's still holiday season here, so morons walking down the street when they're when they're sitting there like staring up at the sky and just taking up the whole sidewalk like they're cattle.
+
+[16:30] I call it nick walking. Yeah, don't nick walk. You know what I mean? Oh boy. Ouch.
+
+[16:42] Uh all right. Well, what did you have for dinner, Stas? Was it anything good or no? No, we just had we ordered pizza. Yeah.
+
+[16:50] What's the pizza of note out there? Uh I don't know, Jack. I don't know. Do you care about it? Yeah, not by by Nastasia, and I don't know, but in LA.
+
+[17:02] I mean, I like quarter sheets a lot that has been brought up on the show. Yeah, yeah. Do you know that their spicy oil, right, that they they made is real spicy. It's pretty spicy. The sport the sport pepper oil.
+
+[17:14] No, no. It's not non-spicy. Yeah. It's a lot more. So the stuff they used to have at Roberta's that was bright red, Stas and I would have to dump it all over to get the heat out of it.
+
+[17:23] You know? There's no heat in that. Yeah. Yeah. That was that was like uh Long Island pizzeria, spicy, not not very spicy.
+
+[17:30] Yeah. I just had a I just had a uh like a a little bit of anger welling up in me, remembering our inability to get arugula at that place. While we would see it go by on platters for salads. Man, they hated us, right, Stas. Oh, they hated us.
+
+[17:48] They hate they hated us. Yeah. Hate. Yeah. Never forget.
+
+[17:53] By the way, I love I love what they were doing. I love Robert's. I love Carlo, all the stuff, right? All the and I haven't been in a long time, but they used to they used to cultivate a very specific kind of F you service, right? Especially during the daytime.
+
+[18:09] I'll never forget the very first radio show we ever did at Roberta's. They're like, you're gonna do the radio show and your payment is a pizza. We're like, Stas and I are like, pizza, like we would have paid you. Kidding. And so like we're like, we're getting the pizza and it was raining, and the guy made us come get the pizza.
+
+[18:26] He's like, I'm not gonna bring it out to you. It's raining. First, they wouldn't let us sit inside even though it was empty. And then they made us go get the pizza. Remember that, Stas?
+
+[18:36] Oh yeah. Yeah. And I was like, oh, this is how it is. Pizza's good though. You know what I mean?
+
+[18:42] I like Robert's. I've had a bunch of friends who've worked. I'm not saying anything negative about Robert's. I'm just saying that's the kind of thing that they cultivated back in the day. The the the enfant terrible.
+
+[18:51] You know what I mean? Anyway. Uh none of them kids anymore. It's been so many years. It's been like 15 years.
+
+[18:57] You know what I love? Not gonna also not gonna call it, but all the people who started out I'm just gonna tell all of you this. Just remember that a certain point you have to self-check and be like, oh, I'm old now. So people who start out like being young, they think that they they keep in their mind, because the truth is as you get old, you don't you you don't feel necessarily old, right? But you have to understand that other people see you as old.
+
+[19:22] So you have to kind of like, you know, around the time you're like 38, 39, you gotta be like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I have to start respecting younger people now. You know what I mean? You can't just crap on anyone like you do when you're young. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[19:36] True. When you're young, I had this uh real real quick, Dave. I had this uh realization at a wine shop recently, because I feel like in my 20s, I'd go in and try to like get good wine and ask for good things, and and like the young hit person would talk to me like a peer. And now the young hit people at wine stores are like, I'm not saying it's a it's not saying it's sweet as a pajar. They're talking to me like I'm an old guy, and I'm like, oh no.
+
+[20:01] Yeah, dude. The tables have turned, yeah. Terrible. So you have to horrible feeling. But like, we know, but that's the thing.
+
+[20:07] Just embrace it. You know what I mean? Just like be like, oh, that happened, and then embrace it. Like of you, like everyone should uh aspire to age into like Tony Bennett land. You know what I mean?
+
+[20:19] Like Tony Bennett did it better than anybody. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, that's the goal. Being Tony Bennett.
+
+[20:25] Anyway. Uh, who's the Tony Bennett of cooking? Harold McGee. Harold McGee is the Tony Bennett of cooking, I think. You know what I mean?
+
+[20:38] I think so. Jack Pepin. Oh, yeah, Jackie Peeps. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[20:44] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he's older too. Yeah. He's an eight million years old.
+
+[20:48] Yeah. 90, right? No. 90 something. Yeah.
+
+[20:51] 90. Remember? Yeah, when he came on and we we just literally like grilled him on his chicken book, and he's like, What am I, what am I doing here? Right? Wasn't that the vibe?
+
+[21:00] It's like, why am I talking to these chods about my chicken book? Anyway. Jacques Papin, first ever chef that whose cookbook I had that had the puffy. Do you guys like puffy cookbooks? Yeah, I do.
+
+[21:13] Yeah? Yeah. I kind of like it because what I feel dirty picking them up because it's like very central puffy cookbook thing. You know what I mean? Anyway.
+
+[21:22] Anyway. I don't know how we got on that. What about you, Quinny Quinn? Uh, this week was a little bit quiet. My dad wanted a bit of a break.
+
+[21:34] So we did uh he pre-prepped, he sandbagged a bunch of uh lasagna components for like a big family dinner, and then everyone made their own lasagna. Wait, whoa, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Stop. What do you mean made your own lasagna? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
+
+[21:50] What do you mean, made your own lasagna? You had like ramekins and you all layered it the way you wanted, like build-a bear? Like I don't understand. Yeah, like that. Yeah, I did a small ramekin.
+
+[22:01] My brother and his wife, they did like little little foil trays. Like small foil trays. And how different were the different ones? Like my mom is plant-based, so she made her own like mushroom mixture. She's actually getting into vegan cheese.
+
+[22:22] So she made a vegan ricotta, a vegan mozzarella, and then there was a plain tomato sauce. Did you try did you try that product? Uh not yet. I'm sure I will at some point. Well, you should have tried it, man.
+
+[22:37] You gotta try it. Like, here's the thing like uh the word vegan cheese bothers me in the way that like, you know, because it because I kind of has a standard of identity. I'm not saying it's a bad product, although I've never had a good one. Nastasia knows some good vegan vegan quote unquote cheese people. I've heard the yogurt.
+
+[22:56] Yeah. And was it yogurt or was it just a a good creamy product? No, it was it was it was. I mean, again, uh she's following a pretty I would say popular recipe person. Like she got the Miyoko creamery book, and that's what she's working from.
+
+[23:18] So it is a lot of the products are actually like fermented at least. So they have that like actual flavor to them. Uh the yogurt, the one particular yogurt she made did have a bit of a unusual savory quality. So I think that was from like the actual uh base milk alternative. Hmm.
+
+[23:43] Yeah. I don't know. Stas, did you actually try your buddy's vegan cheese? Was it good? I tried some vegan cheese at a party, remember, and it was really good.
+
+[23:54] I can't remember the name though. I mean, I'm open. Yeah. I would like to have a product. I just the name the name sticks in my craw a little bit, but I'm open to it conceptually.
+
+[24:04] I had scars, I had scars vegan pizza, and it was not bad. But I'm just I'm I'm a little I'm a little come up with a come up with a new name then. What's what what new name would you what would you call vegan cheese? I don't know. That's a good product name for that.
+
+[24:18] It's not my A, that's not my job, and B the people who want it want to call it vegan cheese, so who am I to tell them not to? You know what I mean? So I mean fair enough. You know, and but uh my issue with lasagna is is that lasagna is so much more about the cheese than a pizza. You know what I mean?
+
+[24:37] Because texturally, lasagna owes texture to the cheese in a way. Well, any lasagna I've ever had, like, you know, that's not has a decent amount of cheese in it. And so, like the whole ability to kind of the way it eats is like a function of the pasta and the cheese, not so much mushrooms, meat or whatever. You know what I mean? As opposed to a pizza where it's mainly the stretch on it.
+
+[25:04] You know, anyway. I've done I've done lasagna, but there's basically no cheese. Well, and you know what I don't call that. I'm I'm doing to you what you did to me on on the uh shaksuka. I call that not lasagna.
+
+[25:21] That is a different product. Anyway. Yeah, but that's like that's like baby. You have made a layered pasta. Lasagna.
+
+[25:29] Yeah. Um anyways. Um, what did I do this week? So we're having uh uh Kevin Jung's coming on next next week, but unfortunately we thought he was gonna be in New York, but he's gonna be in Toronto, so we'll have him over the uh teleophones. But send in all of your NOMA projects slash NOMA research slash uh because they they're um are we allowed to are have they announced uh the pop-up they're doing, Stas?
+
+[25:55] Are we allowed to talk about that or no? I don't have no idea. I'm not plugged in. Really? Okay.
+
+[26:01] Okay. They're gonna do a lot of. Well, you think or you know. I'm not breaking anything here. You know what I mean?
+
+[26:08] But anyway, well, we'll talk about it with him when he comes on next week. But for those who uh have been longtime listeners of the show, about a year, year and a half ago, he came on and gave me the special catclaw slicer that is used for pork in Copenhagen. And I'm not gonna try to pronounce it, but Ariel pronounced it last week. The fancy chicken, uh, sorry, the fancy Christmas pork sandwich that they make in Copenhagen. So I wanted to finally use his cat scratch fever pork machine before he was on.
+
+[26:38] So I made uh a version of the Danish Christmas pork sandwich uh over the weekend. And I have to say it wasn't Danish because you can't get that cut of meat easily here in the US, right? So uh the only real skin on cuts that are easy to get here are like pork shoulders, like pork pork butts, picnic butts, right? Things like that. So what I did was I got a half picnic, uh, like a half picnic shoulder, I think, or butt, whatever they call it.
+
+[27:06] So it's the chunk that has the biggest piece of skin and not the actual hock knuckle end of it. And then I deboned it, flattened it out, re-meat glued a portion of it back on, cat scratched fevered it down, and then did a slow roast in the oven because unlike the traditional Danish pork is a is a faster roast, right? So it the meat stays kind of sliceable. Uh this one, it turned into pulled pulled pork, right? But the skin was perfect, and you could get these crispy strips of it.
+
+[27:35] So we ended up having a mix up of like this Danish pork sandwich, and I did the rote cabbage. By the way, for those of you that don't like cranberry sauce, try doing the Danish red cabbage thing, right? So it's just you finely shred. I used my salad master, of course I did, salad master food processor, which I still love, to make like little, like like fine shred, like small pieces, red cabbage, and then you cook it in vinegar for like half hour. So you sweat it down in vinegar.
+
+[28:06] Then, and you obviously you it's hard to get current jelly here. So then a current juice. So I just added currant jelly and salt to that cooking. That's it. That's it.
+
+[28:16] Cook it for another 30 minutes with that, like get the get the texture the way you want it. So, and then I made a Danish ramelade, right? Of my, you know, a similar version of it. So that's mustard, a boat ton of more than you would think, turmeric, mayonnaise, sour cream. They lighten it with sour cream.
+
+[28:32] I use sweet relish, right, instead of sugar, uh, a little bit of extra salt. I didn't have MSG, so I added some yondu and some carrot. Uh red onion. Right. So I blended it first and then added the uh sweet relish later so that there was still some slight chunkiness to it.
+
+[28:52] Pepper. I also add pepper. And so it's that on both sides of the sandwich, red cabbage on the bottom, pork, cracklings, and then a flash infused Danish uh cucumber salad, which is basically just sugar, vinegar, salt, uh, pepper, like mix it all up, dissolve it. They heated, you don't need to vacuum infuse it in. And so I took American cucumbers, sliced them, because American cucumbers, took out the seeds, salted them, pressed them, pressed the water out, and then did a flash infusion, that on the sandwich, money, money, money.
+
+[29:23] Money. Oh, I also made pretzel buns. I made pretzel brioche buns, which I have to say, good. So I I did uh I did the Harold McGee sodium carbonate trick. So I I uh I took baking soda and I cooked it for an hour and a half at uh 300 degrees Fahrenheit in a very flat thing.
+
+[29:41] You can weigh it to know that you it should lose about a third of its weight. So you can tell whether you fully convert it or not. Then I did uh, I forget the exact ratio, I think 50 grams of that into 100 grams of water, stirred that up, painted that over the proofed rolls and baked them, paint them over the proof rolls, put pretzel salt on top, and when you bake them, right, it flashes off and gives the real pretzel color and some pretzel taste, but doesn't overpower. It's not not crazy. So that's that's what I did for the weekend.
+
+[30:08] Little light cooking. Little light cooking. And I had some I had some pescatarians coming, so I also had to fry fish. And so I pan fried some cod, right? But whatever.
+
+[30:19] You know, you do what you gotta do. Because also the Danish Ramelade sauce is very good in this summertime. They do it, they put it on fish. So I figured we could do as the Germans would say, fish max, right? So we did uh pork sandwiches for the meat eaters and for the pescatarians, we did f fried fish max.
+
+[30:35] Yeah. And but my wife didn't want me to deep fry, so I pan fried those things, and I made mashed potatoes instead of uh instead of French fries. You know what I mean? All right. So much cream.
+
+[30:46] We've gone through this before. Are you cream or are you butter? Both. Both. Yeah.
+
+[30:51] Los. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I like mashed potatoes so much.
+
+[30:56] Does one of us hate mashed potatoes here? How? How could that be possible? My Dax doesn't love mashed potatoes and Booker doesn't like mashed potatoes that much. I don't understand it.
+
+[31:06] I don't understand it. Well, we had a guest on who hated uh cream and butter. Yeah. So she said one of the things she hated was mashed potatoes. She said it off air though.
+
+[31:15] Yeah. So not gonna call her out. Yeah. But here's the other thing. It's like I here here's a here's a here's a little here's here's something, right?
+
+[31:22] That maybe this is a hot take. Maybe this is wrong. I feel that you should make the mashed potatoes creamy enough that they do not require not that you can't put gravy on it, but they should be good without the gravy. Yes. Yeah.
+
+[31:36] Agree. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because you can you can you can fix that before they go out.
+
+[31:42] You know what I'm saying? Although I think like the old school ones that are a 50% butter, like the Joel Robouchon ones or the like uh the early 2000s, like super fancy ones. The problem with those is that you can only eat a little dollop because they're so rich. I think there's a fine line. You know what I mean?
+
+[31:57] But oh I was saying like I like it, you know, so creamy that all you really want is like black pepper, you know? Yeah. Right? Save the gravy for the overcooked meat. Or better yet, don't overcook the meat.
+
+[32:09] And still I do like at Thanksgiving, by the way, this weekend, Dax is coming home. So I'm doing T2 this weekend, so we'll see how that works out. But I uh I reserve the gravy mainly for the stuffing, to be honest, in a Thanksgiving scenario. But whatever. Uh by the way, for those of you that real longtime listeners to the show, a long time ago I spent too long talking about uh Guardian serviceware, the aluminum cooking uh pans that were out of uh Los Angeles from like the I think 30s, early 30s until like probably the 50s, uh, and they were part of the waterless cooking uh phenomenon, and so they sealed well, and so their whole thing was is that you could cook potatoes in them without any water.
+
+[32:51] So you just put the potatoes cut up into the Guardian serviceware casserole dish, you put it directly on the stove and you cook it that way. And that's still the way I make potatoes right now. Just cook them directly in Guardian serviceware and then mash them with my Bam X ricer. For those of you that have never owned an immersion blender ricer, sorry, man. You know what I mean?
+
+[33:12] That stuff's money, money, pain to clean, but money. Versus food mills, which I hate. Has anyone used a food mill and liked it? Impossible. Yeah.
+
+[33:23] Food mill, for those of you that don't know, is the thing that you grab, like a moolie, and it's got two little weird wings that stick out that fit over your pot because otherwise it's impossible to control. And then you throw a product into it and it's got like a little, like what looks like a like a like a like a snow plow that moves around on the inside of it and theoretically forces whatever product you've put into this said mooley into the uh underside. It's also so poorly designed that it requires a little wire underneath the thing to try to scrape the product off. But because it doesn't work, you're always backing it up and semi-unscrewing it and then trying to go forward and pushing on it, doing all this stuff. It is the most frustrating, big piece of garbage ever.
+
+[34:02] In fact, JJ Basil, who uh, you know, used to be with me at the French culinary, then went to WD50 and then worked, you know, for the for the Momo Fuku Empire for a long time. He said he went home once to his mom's house in Washington, DC, saw one in the kitchen, yelled at her, picked it up and threw it out the front door. That's how much he hates movies. But I detest them. No one likes them.
+
+[34:24] No one who's ever had to use one has liked it. That's just what I'm gonna say about it. Enough about movies. Uh anything else you guys got for the for the week in review? Oh, Elliot from Berkeley doesn't not mind food mills.
+
+[34:37] And does Elliot and Berkeley use them themselves or do they get other people to do it for them? I think he's about to say. You know what? Some people also enjoy pain. So you know what I mean?
+
+[34:52] Yeah. It's just, you know, that's like, you know, maybe some people like to sit there and do like uh turned potatoes, turned vegetables. Oh maybe, maybe someone likes peeling shrimp. Little tiny ones, yeah. Oh my god.
+
+[35:08] The things that are the worst, right? Peeling shrimp, just like, oh my God, it when you when you're de-veining them and the and the veins stick to the knife and you're trying to get the veins off the knife and you're flicking the knife and you're rinsing the knife. Ugh hate. Hate. Hate peeling garlic.
+
+[35:23] I hate the stickiness on your fingers when you're peeling like boatloads of garlic. What are the kitchen tasks that just are terrible? I have toast points that go with my cheese plate. I absolutely hate cutting those baguettes. Really?
+
+[35:37] Yeah, for no real good reason, but I absolutely hate doing it. Huh. Yeah. Hate. Well, at least you don't have to do it anymore.
+
+[35:46] Oh. Zing, Stash. Thank you. Loveness. Oh my God.
+
+[35:54] So uh Nastasia once told Nick Wong uh when he was an intern, I think it was you, to peel caraway seeds. As a joke, and he did it. How demented is that? We pressure cook and then peel caraway seeds. Man, brutal.
+
+[36:14] Brutal. Um, let me see where we're gonna go here. Justin F. writes in hey, cooking issues, have you ever done any research with clams and immersion circulators? No.
+
+[36:25] Zing, done. Uh no, I haven't. Um, the only low temp kind of mollusk that I've uh had, and I've tried to find the numbers for it. And Nastasia, you had this too, although we went at different times, was uh modernist, uh the modernist cuisine people, book one when it came out. They used to do a uh gooey duck where they would skin the gooey duck and then they would cut noodles out of the gooey duck and they would do them low temp in a C VAT, but I don't remember the temperature that they used.
+
+[36:54] You had that dish, right, Stas. Yeah, but I don't remember it well. Yeah, that's a good dish. I was surprised at how kind of uh good that dish was because you know, most of these mollusks they'll eat them raw or they'll do them, you know, they'll do them fully cooked. And I looked at most of the sous vide numbers on them, and they're really more like flash cooked pasteurized, like in bag and doing it 90 C.
+
+[37:16] And that's, you know, kind of goes back to Georges Pralou, who, you know, uh Mr. Sausage Fingers, the guy that first uh did uh his fingers were very short and fat, by the way. Uh and he's dead now, so I can, you know, but he he was the person who for the Trogro brothers figured out about uh bagging a foie gras entier and uh cooking foie gras like uh, you know, in a in a water bath. And he, because he was so early, right? So he was like kind of the uh rival to Brun Bruno Gusso.
+
+[37:45] Bruno Gousseau who does cuisine solutions, uh, he he was juscadant, like the the correct temperature, where Georges Pralu kind of had an old school chef mindset of like, I'm only gonna do three temperatures. You know what I mean? And so his shellfish temperature was all very high. Um, I've like I said, I haven't done clams. I will say I stopped for a long time I was doing low temp work with uh sh um like shellfish, not with mollusks, but with shellfish.
+
+[38:14] And I didn't like I don't like it, to be honest. Like if you cook the shellfish uh for too long, it it has enzymes in it that get mushy. And so in fact, I used to do a demo where and I you can't do it 100% of the time, where I would circulate shrimp for a long time and they would turn to a paste. It's gross, just hard gross. And so I actually like those things kind of cooked at a higher temperatures.
+
+[38:35] And I'm gonna probably say clams are kind of similar. I either want them to be like raw or like black and blue, like so like some plancha like hit on the outside, like with razors, or is it were you know cooked all the way through? I don't know that there is a middle ground. I wasn't able to find one. Most of the numbers I found on the internets were you know relatively high temp, in which case, what's the point?
+
+[38:59] You know what I mean? Um just cook them trad. But uh I'll ask. I'll see what maybe Kevin. You know, Kevin didn't know when he's doing all those tests.
+
+[39:06] Maybe, maybe, maybe they have something. You know what I bet would be good somehow figure out some sort of abalone thing. It's just I don't have the money to be cooking with real abalone. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
+
+[39:16] There's no the money for it. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. Um Matt from Mystic.
+
+[39:23] We already talked about the uh I'm not gonna go into the pie again because I will get myrtilated. Uh Maddie says, Maddie has two questions. Uh I'm looking to make a Fournet Branca ice cream for a pop-up. And I'm wondering about ratios to get a base that will freeze while still getting the flavor. Should I be adding stabilizers to account for the booze?
+
+[39:43] And I will be using a Paco jet. All right. Uh, yo, Maddie, just boil it, boil it. Just boil it. Boil off the alcohol.
+
+[39:51] Fournet is not gonna taste any worse if you boil off the alcohol. Just boil it off. Partially boil it off. If you want some alcohol in it, like dose whatever alcohol you would normally put into it, and then just you know, do your do your I mean, that's the answer. You know, unless Quinn, you have a better idea.
+
+[40:07] I I should I should have well again, I don't know. I had those two thir suggestions. One, uh boil it, boil some of it off. Boil it off. Let me try and find the if you want some of it fresh.
+
+[40:27] I should have a max amount you can put in. Uh the standard by the way, the standard by the way, to take the alcohol level super low. Like you could always if you boil it, you're not gonna boil off all the alcohol. But if you want to take it to like functionally nil, boiling it to one third of the volume is typically what people do when they're doing tests, right? When they're testing sugar.
+
+[40:54] So if you want to test the sugar in an alcohol situation, you boil it down to one third, and then you add uh you you wait for it to cool and you take it back to its original volume and then measure the sugar. So I would guess that like boiling it down to one third of its volume would take it to almost nil alcohol. Um you don't need to boil it down that much, but you know, a partial boil is gonna leave some alcohol in it. But also like how much of the flavor do you think is volatile though? In Fernet, like any any flavor you get rid of is a win.
+
+[41:30] Any flavor you get rid of in Fresnette Bronca is a win. You've won. You know what I mean? I don't really think it's actually like it's so bitter. Most of those bitter things aren't that volatile.
+
+[41:40] I just don't think you're gonna lose that much. You know what I mean? And if you want like aroma back, I would say boil the vast majority of it and then chuck chuck chalk in like bitters or something, you know, like a little bit at as a bitters, but I just don't think it's gonna be, I don't think it's gonna be that big of a problem. Also, there's a mint component, right? Well, I mean, there may be some.
+
+[42:01] There's so much stuff in it. Broncamenta is mostly mint. Right? So I like bronchamenta. I that's a good product.
+
+[42:09] In fact, we just put the red hot pokers back on the menu at Contra, and we're opening with Dana Corey, who's now in Berlin, but he was a bartender at Booker and Dax, his drink called uh the Bishop's Wife, which is bronchamenta, cognac, and Demerara syrup as our first hot drink of the season, right? So I I'm fine with Broncamenta. It's just I don't I think my issue with Fournet is just um I just I was getting pushed too much of it back in the day. I think if I if someone handed me this product now and said, what do you think, I'd be like, it's fine. It's good.
+
+[42:43] You know, how did it also become that like weird favorite some drink of like the 2010s? I don't know, but that's that's where my reaction. So it's kind of like you know how it took me, it took me a long time to appreciate Led Zeppelin just because of the people in high school who listened to Led Zeppelin. You know what I mean? Same with Pink Floyd.
+
+[42:58] Took me longer than it should have to enjoy Pink Floyd because I had a reaction against the culture that was built around it. But now it, you know, it's good. You know what I'm saying? Anyway. Um, for the for the sake of consistency, I would probably recommend doing a full boil down of some of it.
+
+[43:19] And then if you do want a little fresh and you're like taste a little bit of alcohol, my recommended maximum for something style would be 24 grams per kilogram. A baco jet. For the fresh 40%. You know, here's another thing that uh is messed up. Like the the AFP numbers of uh sugar, so the anti-freezing power like power of sugar and alcohol, they have there is an actual theoretical like equivalency number.
+
+[43:56] But here's what that here's here's where that's lying to you. Uh the melt rate is different. So for a given, for a given freeze point does not mean that the sugar and the alcohol solutions with the same freeze point will melt at the same rate, right? That is not necessarily the case. In fact, it is not the case.
+
+[44:20] Um Matt had Matty had another question. Uh serving venison on a new tasting and the lovely, fresh, delicious. Oh, by the way, if you want a topping for it, did you have any toppings ideas? If you want it like jack the fresh uh menta, just do a just do a fluid gel with uh with the Fournet. So you could do like you could do a fluid gel, try to keep it at about 20 ABV.
+
+[44:43] So boil like water and agar, right? Uh try to keep it around like the finish at about 20 ABV so the agar sets nicely. Whisk the whisk the um Fournet into the uh hot agar solution, making sure that it stays above about 30, 30, 35 Celsius so it doesn't pre-gel on you, right? Have that solution be about a percent or so, right? In that range.
+
+[45:09] Uh blend that to make a fruit fluid gel, mix that like up to like 50-50 with cream, and then put that through uh through an EC, and you can get a very heavy kind of Furnet, you're gonna have to add sugar, but you can get a very heavy Fournet cream for it that isn't frozen, but is like super dense. Anyway, uh Maddie's other questions. Serving venison on a new tasting and the lovely, fresh, delicious loins turned out looking terrible when sliced, as the outer quarter inch turns brown and oxidized. Any reason why this is happening with venison more than any other red meat, uh, is there any way to prevent it with seasoning or anything else? We've tried rubbing a little uh oil on it to no avail.
+
+[45:47] I did not know this, but it turns out uh if you look up post-mortem met myoglobin reduction in fresh venition in 2006, this is a well-known fact that the color stability in venison is much worse than in other meats. And I've never noticed this because I very rarely cook uh venison, especially not like you know, flat flash cooking. And I don't, the the stuff that they say on the internet to get around it doesn't make a lot of sense to me because they're like, well, putting in antioxidants. So they're talking about like uh they make these uh like rosemary uh polyphenol antioxidants that they say can help with it uh or ascorbic acid, but I wouldn't want to acidify the outside of my venison, right? Because then you're gonna get kind of textural problems.
+
+[46:27] Um so I don't know. Like maybe storing them in a like slicing them and storing them in a warm oil bath or in like a uh a broth bath like that's slightly warm, maybe that would help. Or maybe using like tocopherol or some sort of anti uh this rosemary antioxidant, you know, hopefully not one with too much flavor. Um, yeah, interesting problem. Maybe someone in the Discord has some uh some insight uh into this, uh, but it was an interesting question and something I did not know.
+
+[46:56] Um Kevin who's gonna be on next week, uh, but we can uh start this now. Does anyone have a chart or quality quantitative data on brining curve of meat proteins, but salt brining? Some way to calculate the ideal length of brining based on the salt concentration of the brine and the thickness of the protein. I feel there was a chart somewhere once upon a time, but I can't remember where it might have been. Well, listen, I don't believe everything he says.
+
+[47:19] In fact, some of the stuff that he says, I don't believe at all. But he is a very smart uh fellow. Uh Greg Blonder with uh genuine ideas uh com has a calculator uh that will do all of this. So you just go to genuineideas.com uh and find uh the salt brine calculator. And uh the interesting one of the interesting things he did many years ago, this is back when I was still at the French Culinary Institute, I think, was show that uh you don't necessarily need to equilibrium brine because when you cook, right?
+
+[47:49] So it takes a long time for salt to get to the center of uh meat, right? If you're brining. So for instance, I went on his calculator and I looked up that to do equilibrium brining, i.e., to get the salt all the way through, a two-inch thick cut of meat, a slab style cut of meat would take five to six days, right? So long time. Uh, but if you jack salt into the outside of it, as you cook it, it quickly goes into the center.
+
+[48:16] And he has ways to show this. So I would just look at um, I would look at his work on this. Some other things I disagree with, uh, I disagree with the conclusions he comes to based upon the experiments he's done. But in this case, I would, you know, I would listen. Um, all right.
+
+[48:33] Uh Elliot wants to know how can we tell the difference between a different non-volatile acid, citric mallet, tartaric, et cetera. I completely agree that I can definitely tell the difference, but also for the purposes of acids, I thought we only had proton detectors on our tongues, uh, like Ariel talks about in Flavorama, and the rest was aroma. So, what's the mechanism for being able to tell the difference between these acids? Do we have some other kind of detectors on our tongues aside from the five uh taste plus touch? Elliot, wouldn't I like to know that?
+
+[49:01] That's the kind of question I ask flavor scientists all the time. I've never gotten an amazing explanation of why the different acids taste different. Now, the easiest, most facile way is that they must also hit the bitter receptor somehow. Uh very famous cantankerous uh uh you know professor named Zucker, who is the person who first published papers on uh CO2 taste uh, you know, he believes some of it had to do with onset, so you could tell the flavor difference because of the different onsets of the of the different acidities uh when they're on your tongue, but I don't think anyone has an adequate explanation of this. So, you know, I can't answer you because I wish I had the answer.
+
+[49:38] How about that? Um Berkeley wants to know about hot non-alcoholic cocktails, but for for his wife or you know, her wife or their wife, but but the problem is it also can't be sweet. So no hot, no, no creamy sweet stuff. So no hot chocolate, no steamed milk with honey. Like hot apple cider is barely okay.
+
+[50:04] I need to figure this out. These are these are tough. These are tough. But I will say this if you want to reduce the sugar, right? I don't know, but cream.
+
+[50:14] If you want to reduce the sugar, get yourself uh polydextrose. Go on the internet, get some polydextrose, and then you can lower the sugar and keep the body the same as you heat it with polydextrose. So just start there. I'll give some more thought over it over the next uh week. Remember, we're coming back on Monday, uh, not on uh what's it called?
+
+[50:33] Tuesday. Not on Tuesday. Because yeah, John won't be here. He'll already be. Probably not, yeah.
+
+[50:39] He'll already be up in the great state of Connecticut. Yeah. Looking forward to it. Yeah, getting out getting out of this piece? Probably, yeah.
+
+[50:47] Not permanent, I don't know, yeah. Whatever. But yeah, yeah. Yeah. Do you train up or you drive up?
+
+[50:52] Train to New Haven. Then my mom picks me up there. Yeah. Drive there. You don't, you don't take the uh you don't take the shoreline ease?
+
+[50:58] Well, you hate the shorelineies? I've just never taken it. I don't know. Yeah. We used to live in New Haven.
+
+[50:59] And so they would just come pick me up there and bring me to my place and just kind of carry it over. So let me ask you a question. Hamburgers. Louis lunch, yes or no? Yeah.
+
+[51:12] Yeah? You for it? Yeah, definitely. It's not like a hamburger is, I don't know, everyone would think if you've never been there, it's gonna be a little jarring, I think like with the cheese spread, the white toast, you know, no ketchup, all that kind of stuff. But it's good.
+
+[51:28] It's really good. Yeah. I like it too. I do too. It's no longer just a lunch place.
+
+[51:31] They're open late now. That's true. Everything's a lie. Nothing changes. But it's still the same people.
+
+[51:35] Yeah, still same cooking equipment. Yeah, the crematoriums. Yeah. I haven't been in a long time. Yeah.
+
+[51:40] Yeah. Uh all right. Uh let me see. Uh uh what do you think? Tie how do you how do you think you pronounce this?
+
+[51:50] Tive mush? Yeah. Tive mush mush, yeah. Tive mush. Uh any tips on ideal temperature and techniques for popping every single grain of sorghum.
+
+[51:59] Uh these are some some some some uh kind of out of left field questions. I appreciate that, right? Um there's always some unpopped uh sorghums and uh I heat about one quart of oil that's a lot one quart I heat about one quart of oil to 420 on the stove then add about half a cup of the grains to give it a stir one quart that one quart that's so much oil. You're deep frying those suckers. Yeah I didn't I misread how big is the rondeau or stockpot a half cup of grains though.
+
+[52:30] Okay, yeah, fair yeah yeah. Right? Standard for like a half cup of popcorn would be like two tablespoons. Yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[52:38] Uh yeah. That might be some of the issues. But we'll get more into it. Anyway, and give it a stir. Uh more grained oil seems to work better than the opposite.
+
+[52:46] I think this must be a typo. I don't think it's a quart. Yeah. Yeah. Uh I would think age might affect this, but the stuff I'm using is fresh from the distributor.
+
+[52:56] I had a chef who could pop them all using a tiny pot with a lid as one does popcorn, but I have not been able to achieve that. So these are deep frying. So here's some things. One, I saw on the internet that actually uh too fresh on sorghum can be worse than uh than not. The issue with all pop things is that you need the ideal moisture content, right?
+
+[53:18] And so uh what I read on the internets is that you want to hit somewhere in the uh like 14 to 15 percent moisture range, right? So the question is then is how do you know whether you've hit 14 to 15% moisture range? Now, what you can't do is just choose a relative humidity, you know, like make a salt brine, so the two salt brines of note that are in the right zone would be uh sodium bromide and sodium chloride, and then have those high humidity things and then temper them up. It's too much of a pain in the butt. What I would do to figure out the actual moisture content of the sorghum that you have is to put a is to weigh it very accurately in uh a piece of aluminum foil, right?
+
+[53:58] Uh weigh the aluminum foil, weigh the sorghum, make sure it's a single layer, put it into an oven at 130 degrees C, which is 266 Fahrenheit for about like two hours, right? One to three hours. And as soon as the weight does no longer goes down, you've driven off most of the water. Now, let it cool covered, like put it into a container and let it cool so it can't reabsorb moisture from the atmosphere and then weigh it. And then you can figure out what the moisture content of the sorghum was.
+
+[54:26] Once you figure out the moisture content, you can figure out okay, well, in order to get it up to 14%, how much do I need to either add or remove? And then you can uh do it that way. Does that make that make sense? You can figure out kind of where you are. Because people are successfully dry popping the sorghum.
+
+[54:43] If you're gonna dry pop the sorghum, I think the key on this is because sorghum is so small, right? You need to get it to the correct temperature relatively quickly before you drive off too much moisture, right? But not so high, because 420 is you don't need 420 degree oil to pop it, right? You really only need on in the area of like 360, 365 to pop it. So if you're you actually using a quart of oil and a half cup of seeds, you might be driving off too much moisture too quickly before you could build enough pressure to pop it, right?
+
+[55:13] So I would actually, for if you're gonna use this large amount of oil, I would actually drop the temperature down a little bit and see whether that helps you. But with a dry uh pop, what you do what you need to do is preheat the pan, get the pan. So like the this person who I forget her name, but she's on there, what she does is she throws a couple of uh uh sorghums into the bottom of the pan, waits for them to pop, then she knows the pan is hot enough. Now she pulls the pan off off the heat for a second, throws the new sorghum in, moves it around, let's say, and then puts it back on the heat and then pops them all dry. So uh I would test some of these things.
+
+[55:48] Is this a good enough answers for them to troubleshoot? Uh all right. Ian writes in, could you please share your mushroom gravy and vegan foamer recipes? They've been talked about, but I can't seem to track them down anywhere. Yeah, right.
+
+[56:00] Well, so the vegan foamer, I'll give you that one. It's easy. Now, this is just the one I use. Do whatever you like. This is just this is the one that this is the one I've used.
+
+[56:08] Uh 300 grams hottest tap water. Hot is important, all right. 4.5 grams uh powdered gum uh arabic or whatever you want to call it, acacia. Uh good stuff. Please don't buy the crappy, like big, please, please just buy good decent quality powdered gum Arabic, please.
+
+[56:28] Uh nine grams methocel F50, F like Frank 50, except no other methyl cell. If it doesn't say which methell, don't trust it. Don't trust people who don't give you the right numbers. I'm so angry about it. Uh 0.9 grams xanthan gum, all right, and 200 grams of ice.
+
+[56:46] So what you're gonna do is is you're gonna combine the uh the gum arabic, the methyl, and the xanthan gum, stir them together, right? And what that what that's doing, the methyl cell is actually uh separating the xanthan and the arabic particles from each other so that they can hydrate quickly. Then put use a stick blender, right? Use a stick blender, blend them into the hot water, right? Uh try not to whip too much air into it, right?
+
+[57:10] That's why I don't want you to use a full-size blender. Use a stick blender, right? So get the and the xanthan and the arabic should hydrate at that point, right? Don't go nuts with it. Then after that's thoroughly dispersed, right?
+
+[57:22] The the F50, it's gonna be white. Throw the ice in and stir with a spoon. Spoon. Spoon, not a blender. Should they stir it with a blender?
+
+[57:36] No. No. They should use a spoon because what when you put the ice in, the temperature is gonna drop. The methyl cell is gonna start to hydrate. If you whip any air into that product.
+
+[57:47] Any air, it's there forever. So don't use a spoon. Uh, and that's it. The mushroom gravy, the trick with that is is that I don't like to make a root. So a lot of people are you a Burmani guy?
+
+[58:00] Not as much as I should be. Yeah. So uh, like the issue with most uh gravies is is that I hate the way they're written. They expect you to know in advance exactly how much gravy you're gonna have. And so you do a roux ahead of time and you make it, and then you have to like like the easiest thing to do is to make it too thick and then thin it out with cream or cream or milk, right?
+
+[58:20] But these these are all clutches, right? The issue with a mu mushroom gravy is that you saute the mushrooms in butter or oil with the flavorings, and then when the mushrooms are done, then you can add either like a mushroom stock. And by the way, I recommend cold soaking uh shiitakis if you're gonna make a shiitake broth, and then like circulating them at 60 for a while to get the best flavor for your stock before you go. Whatever liquids you're gonna use, you don't want to then also have to make a roux and then and then put it in. It doesn't make sense.
+
+[58:46] You don't want to blend the mushrooms, so you've got to make sure that no clumps happen when you're making the gravy. So my way around it is to blend like some of the stock, cold or hot, because you're gonna blend it, but cold works best because the flour doesn't hydrate in it. Blend it together or mix it together cold, then add that slurry the same way you would with a cornstarch to the gravy. The trick is getting the amount right. And here's what no one ever tells you.
+
+[59:11] I don't know why people do this for recipes. I think that it's because they hate themselves and they hate us, right? Why does no one ever just tell you the amount of flour to use in grams for a specific amount of gravy? And here's what it is: it's between six and six and two-thirds percent. Those are my numbers for gravy.
+
+[59:27] I my standard gravy number is 6.25% flour by weight to the liquid base to get it to go. However, you get it in, whether you do it Burmani, but I don't want to add more oil, right? So what I'll do is I'll take some of this, I'll either take some of the stock cold or I'll pull some out, put it in a blender, I'll pre-weigh the amount of flour I need, boom, that's it. So I don't know why everyone just doesn't give gravy recipes in terms of the number of grams of flour per grams of gravy. It's just drives me mad.
+
+[59:55] Two tablespoons per cup. But what does that mean? You know what I mean? To avoid that, I just make a batch of uh roux and freeze it and then cut it into little cubes and then just kind of like add anything up there. Yeah, all right.
+
+[1:00:07] That also works, you know? I do that too. Yeah, but uh the other thing is always have like a little uh ultraspur sitting around. Yeah. And then you can tap it in.
+
+[1:00:15] But if you want to know what the actual like true number is, it's about six for flour. AP is what I tested. About six point two five percent in that range.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold. You're also cooking issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, News State Studios in New York City, joined by no one here in the studio, except we got Joe Hazen rocking the pedals uh for the second half of our first ever doubleheader. How you doing? Hey, glad to see you a second time.
+
+[0:30] Yeah, yeah. Still have on the phone, thankfully, Nastasia the Hammer Lopez uh down there in Los Angeles. How you doing, Stas? I'm still okay. Well, remember, they're maybe only listening to this, so let's assume they haven't heard the last hour.
+
+[0:43] And in the upper left-hand corner, we got Quinn. How you doing? Good. And special guest for the second uh side of the doubleheader from Toronto right now, but coming from Los Angeles by way of Copenhagen, Kevin Jung from DOMA, longtime uh friend of the show. How you doing?
+
+[1:04] Good, good. Thanks for having me on again. Wait, the last time you were on was also doubleheader? I don't even remember these things. Yeah, Sola opened for me, yeah.
+
+[1:16] That was when I was in person. Oh man. Wait, so who did we do before you? We did uh you guys did Sola El Waley before. Oh, wow.
+
+[1:24] Yeah. Before uh me, yeah. So here's what I remember from the first time you were on in person. You uh knew that I loved the uh the pork loin situation, skin on uh, you know, that they do in in Denmark, and the one that I had had there most recently was uh Tolden Schnapps, which I think you told me to go to, right? Great.
+
+[1:48] Yep. And so uh for those of you that like haven't heard anything we've said before, you take uh you take the skin and you you take this cat claw situation and you drag it along the skin and you cut all the way through it, and that makes it so that when you roast it so that you get this like crackling on it, you can slice and get these perfect strips of crackling, and it's generally a good idea. So I it's hard to get, you can't get that cut of meat here normally, right? So consequently, I you can't get it. So I hadn't used it, and then before you came on, right?
+
+[2:20] I went to Denmark for to visit my son Dax, who's in Denmark, and so I went to all the Christmas markets, and there I had the I didn't get to go to Easted Grill, right? But I had like the you know, the pork Christmas sandwiches that they have at the markets there. Life, life-changing sandwich, fantastic sandwich. Yeah, yeah. So it's usually what you eat leftovers the day after Christmas.
+
+[2:42] You slice up the day old roast and you have it on a sandwich. So good. With the with the red cabbage. So I I couldn't find Cassis, uh, you know, a red uh currant juice, so I used jam, right? But then you know the you know, cook the vinegar and the red cabbage and the uh and the cassis jam.
+
+[2:59] So of that on the base. Yeah, enough enough vinegar that it'll make you cough. It should make you cough as you cook in it. Yeah, yeah, of course. And then uh and then uh, you know, the the flat the flash pickled uh, you know, uh cucumber salad that uh that they make there.
+
+[3:14] So is that and then the I made the remelade and people went crazy. The the sauce remolil, as they call it in in Danish, because they they uh they swallow the d the last letters of uh Remelade, so it's like uh kind of a mushy sounding word at the end. What what what is it with them in the language? Like like what no one can't this is why you can't pronounce anything there. It's crazy, you know what I'm saying?
+
+[3:38] I mean, I've I've lived in in Copenhagen for seven years, and I still can't don't dare speak the language. And they speak English so well over there too. So they're almost taking pity on me by speaking English to me. Yeah. Um but even like the sweets, the Swedish and Danish are quite similar.
+
+[3:53] But the Swedes say that when d Danes speak Danish, uh they it's like they're speaking Swedish with a mouthful of porridge. Yeah. Well, yeah, Nils used to say marbles. My friend Nils used to say marbles. Yeah.
+
+[4:02] So uh the two nods that I made to the fact that I'm not in Denmark, right, were one, like I said, you can't get that cut of meat. So I used pork shoulder that I had like flat I flattened out and meat glued it into like, you know, kind of a flat uh situation and then scored it and did it. But you couldn't slice it as neatly. It still I mean it tasted great. So it was a mix between like this day a Danish pork and a pulled pork.
+
+[4:26] It was like a like a kind of mashup between those two. And the other thing you booked it for longer, right? It was you were like a lower, slower. Yeah. I did it, I did it like like you know, old school like Chang used to do his bosoms.
+
+[4:37] You know what I mean? Like yeah. Yeah. And uh and the other thing that I did that was not uh uh approved was I I pretzelized the buns. So I did I did Harold McGee, uh, you know, I did uh my my hamburger rolls are not as rich as a brioche, but you know, it's milk milk and milk and butter and sugar in them.
+
+[4:59] Not a lot of sugar, but you know what I mean, but like semi-enriched hamburger buns. But I did I made the sodium carbonate solution where you bake the baking soda until it you know loses a third of its weight. And I think I I forget what percentage, I used whatever McGee said, painted it on and then sprinkled pretzel salt. And those were a big hit. I'm not saying that Danes need to do that, but they could.
+
+[5:21] Well, I mean, I think because you were saying it's not as rich as a brioche, and I I have this take on brioche burger buns. It's that I think it's one of the worst buttons you can use for a burger because it kind of starts to dissolve halfway through the burger. Yeah. Like I judge a good burger bun by your ability to eat half, go out for a cigarette, come back and pick the thing up again and not have a mess on your hands. A soupy mess.
+
+[5:44] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh okay, can I just say this? Because uh sandwiches in general, like either thing is is a monstrosity, right? When you get a sandwich and it it totally soups out on you and the bread turns to to mush, nothing. That's that's unpleasant.
+
+[6:00] But I think the worst to me is when people and people love to serve, forget who it was that hates this the most, but uh someone was on recently who hates it. Uh when they serve, for instance, like a sandwich on a baguette, or when there's like massive amounts of bread and not and not enough kind of moisteness, it always gives me the hiccups and it's a nightmare. So like a dry sandwich with too much bread to me is the worst offense that you can you can commit. And I saw my son, you know, Booker. Usually he thought I was gonna get mad because when he disassembles a sandwich, right?
+
+[6:37] I'm like, you shouldn't disassemble a sandwich. Somebody took the care to make that sandwich. But we were at the botanical garden, I paid $15 for a tuna sandwich, you know, a subpar tuna sandwich. And halfway through it, he took the top layer of bread off. I'm like, you know what, son?
+
+[6:51] Good call. There was too much bread on that damn sandwich. That's a poorly made sandwich. Like a poorly made sandwich doesn't deserve to stay together. Do you know what I'm saying?
+
+[7:00] Anyway. Yeah. Yeah, too much bread is, I mean, like, it's a nightmare. It's like it's like uh, you know, if you've said something. Maybe the Danes are onto something with uh the open face sandwiches thing.
+
+[7:08] Uh this maybe they're they're more clever than you think. So how do you how do you pronounce that s'more bro think it's not a sandwich? So we how do you pronounce it? I can't pronounce it properly. Yeah.
+
+[7:16] And I refuse to attempt it on live air because I will be made fun of incessantly by people I know. Probably by REL, actually. Yeah, but here's the thing, right? Not a sandwich. Not a sandwich.
+
+[7:26] It's not a sandwich. So, like, you know, we were going to Tolden Schnapps, which is this great place where the guy can pour, like he can he can take your schnapps glass and pour his schnapps to a meniscus, right? And and then you have to figure out how to lift it up. So, you know, I went there twice. I went there back just recently.
+
+[7:42] I took Dax there because he hadn't been there. And all of the people I was with were like, oh, we're going to this place, we're getting sandwiches. I'm like, they are not sandwiches, right? They're about as much of a sandwich as a hot dog is, i.e. not.
+
+[7:56] You know, by soft toast or uh it's just a it's just you know, stuff served on bread. You know? Yeah, I guess like like eggs benedict is not a sandwich either. No by by qualification, yeah. Yeah, Stas, you're gonna you have back like if if I hand you like a little piece of like like like a thin slice of rye bread and then I put a bunch of herring on it and then like a little bit of like like an egg salad or a shrimp salad, is that a sandwich?
+
+[8:20] No, no, no. No, no, no, no. Anything anything that like doesn't ask you to pick it up is not a sandwich. See a hotel you can always tell who's a tourist in Copenhagen is if they pick up the uh the Danish open space sandwich. Yeah.
+
+[8:37] That's why you shouldn't call it a sandwich, because you're just you're here's another thing about Denmark. What is it with the stubby Christmas trees? I don't know, maybe maybe low ceilings? But not that low. I don't know actually.
+
+[8:49] What does everyone live in a tree. I've never I've never had a I mean they're it's all old like I live in a hundred-year old house that's like kind of falling apart, but kind of also held together by old engineering. Yeah. All I'm saying is is that the Christmas trees, they are, and I think I can say this. I don't think it's a curse word.
+
+[9:05] They are the chodes of Christmas trees. They are wider than they are tall. They are crazy. I don't understand it. It's got it's gotta be cultural.
+
+[9:15] At first time I saw it, I was like, oh, this no one's gonna sell, no one's gonna buy from this Christmas tree seller. You know what I mean? Because like, alone we have choked trees. And then I looked around. Everyone, everyone had them.
+
+[9:25] Hmm. Anyway. Yeah, I guess I maybe I never noticed because I've never actually had a tree in my house in in Copenhagen, just because it for me a Christmas tree is so such a pain to manage after Christmas when all the needles are falling off and they're everywhere, and it'll be the next Christmas year after you're still finding needles in the couch and things like that. So not a fan of not a fan of them. No.
+
+[9:47] So uh speaking uh staying in the Christmas sandwich uh zone and Christmas markets in general, Dr. Smokehouse wants to know the perfect uh cut of pork that the Danes would use. Uh so they use three. Um there's the loin, the skin on loin, there's a skin on belly, and then there's what we call the skin on neck. Um, which is basically the the boned out neck part of the shoulder of a of a of a pig with the skin still on it.
+
+[10:17] And that's what we use when we do Christmas lunch at Noma for the staff. Um but this is like a re like most most of the time it's gonna be loin, and then you're kind of worried about crisping the skin, rendering the fat cap, and then also not overcooking the loin. So neck is kind of the happy medium where it's a good amount of lean, a good amount of fat without it being belly alloy. But it stays sliceable. So in other words, you don't have to cook it so long that it that it turns into like a pulled pork situation.
+
+[10:43] Like uh like a pulled pork situation. Uh no, like so usually what we'll do is we'll it gets roasted on a rack and we'll we'll put water underneath um in the roasting pan. So it's not sitting in water, but there's water below. So the water as it steams in the oven was gonna sort of gently cook it from the bottom up as well. So the idea of being that A, it's a bit juicier, it cooks faster, and then B, you don't have um you know like over carmelized roasting juices on the bottom of the pan that you gotta for however long to get the the carbonization up.
+
+[11:13] So a lot of the Danish blogs that I looked at, they throw aromatics into that pan and then use the use the like leftover liquid to sauce up. Do you guys do that or is it not a good idea? Uh you definitely can. Um for for Christmas here in Toronto, uh, I'm making porchetta kind of with the Danish like I've I don't ironically I don't have the the Danish diplomatic bunch of porch pork skin claw that I gave you. So I'm gonna have to do that by hand.
+
+[11:39] But uh well, just get the claw, dude. You gave me your only claw? Yeah, I gave you my only claw. Where they're from? They're from they're from Aarhus or something like that, right?
+
+[11:50] Yeah, so there's there's uh like the only kitchen supply store pretty much in in Copenhagen, they stock these. And then uh I I bought one because I knew it was coming to to do the show with you in New York, and I was like, oh yeah. Well, I appreciate it. It is a good device. But I don't I don't I don't have one myself.
+
+[12:06] So if you're doing it in America and you do it like I do, you also have to like knife score it down the middle because a rolled out uh rolled out shoulder is too long. So the the the Danish cuts are only maybe eight inches long, I'd say, right? When they're raw? Yeah. In that zone.
+
+[12:25] Whereas, like when you roll out a, when you roll out a, you know, uh, a shoulder, it's like it's like 14 inches long. You know, so it's too long. Too long. Anyway. Uh wait, so what was I gonna say?
+
+[12:38] Oh, yeah. So we also stopped by Noma projects. And oh, nice. So the the greenhouse shop where the restaurant is. Yeah.
+
+[12:46] So if for those of you who are lucky enough to have ever gone to NOMA when it's uh, you know, fully operational battle station, you go into the greenhouse, they serve you some cocktails, you wait until the seating, and then they pull you into your table when you're doing it. That's a fair assessment of what happens, right, Kevin? Yep. Yep. So, but you can go in there now and you can either buy coffee in the back or you can buy products, including some of the like dot dashi RX and all the delicious stuff, which we'll talk about in a minute.
+
+[13:16] But in the very front of the shop, right, and Migoya's making, so like you know, Migoya is now doing pastry there. So they so it's you and Migoya are making crazy. Yeah. So I go in there and I'm like, there's a pot, there's a giant graduated cylinder in which are these weird looking like jello meteorites. And then you saw the tree sap.
+
+[13:40] Yeah. Then there's a bowl of little like amber looking, like, you know, they look like Captain Crunch made out of amber. Okay. And I'm like, dude, to the guy who was in it. So like, what the hell is this?
+
+[13:54] And he's like, oh, this is uh peach tree sap. And I was like, I was like, are you well, are you are you selling this? No. I'm like, what does it taste like? I asked all these questions, didn't give me a taste of it.
+
+[14:10] I have no idea what that stuff tastes like or what you use it for. He's like, it's not, it's not ready yet. We're not, we're not we're not selling it yet. I was like, why do you have it here, dude? Why are you why are you torturing me?
+
+[14:21] And due to a reaction from people who visit, they were curious. We're in the business of curiosity. But what is it? What do you use it for? Yeah, so it's uh like like the gentleman said, it's uh peach tree sap.
+
+[14:32] So it's as the usually from grafting, when you graft a tree, the sap will ooze out of it, you know, harden. And then we'll we'll harvest that and polish it down. And at that point you can rehydrate it. And you know, if you rehydrate in the water, which is like what you saw in the giant graduated cylinder, it doesn't really taste like anything, but you can rehydrate it in birch water, maple water, you can rehydrate it in uh in in a stock if you want to make it more savory. So we've used it in desserts, kind of like uh a chewy gelatinous jello, where we've served uh some of the the amps, like the ants that tastes like lemongrass with it.
+
+[15:08] And then we've also done savory because when it's when it's savory and uh rehydrated, it has that texture of like uh like braised beef tendon, that kind of luxurious collagenous chew to it. And how heat stable is it, if at all. Uh no, you can you can cook it, you can braise it. Um and as far as we know, you we we've never been able to overcook it. Like you end up usually over reducing the liquid and then you have to let it out again or something like that.
+
+[15:37] But it in terms of like falling apart, it doesn't really do that. So uh so uh f I forgot to mention, right? So what Kevin does, and what what's your actual title? Research chef? What is what's your title?
+
+[15:49] Yeah, I'm I'm head chef of research and developments. Head chef of research and development. Sorry, research and production, yeah. Or fermentation lab Noma Noma projects. Right, okay.
+
+[15:58] So like uh not the like your domain is that kind of bunker building next to the next to so if you go to NOMA, it's like a it's like a glass, literal like a like a glass house, right? And then, you know, uh, what's it called? What are those called? Is that what they call them? Glass houses where you grow plants?
+
+[16:16] Greenhouse. Greenhouse, greenhouse. Greenhouse? Greenhouse, greenhouse, yeah, yeah. Then the then the the hyper fancy dining room, and then to the right of the to the right of the greenhouse is like this like bunker looking structure.
+
+[16:29] Was that an old is that actually an old bunker? Because that entire area used to be Danish military. All right, it is an old bunker. Yeah, exactly. So that was an old bunker.
+
+[16:36] So the w the water you walked past on your way to the dining room, the water that's on your left-hand side, that's a man-made lake that they dug out to make this bunker that we are currently working out of. Um it used to be the the fortification of old Copenhagen, like that used to be in City Linux. Um, because of that, it's kind of like a like a protected, like a UNESCO type of situation where we can't change certain things about the building. So, like when you walk through, you probably looked up and saw like the the raw iron beams in the in the ceiling, and and there's a lot of brick and stone and things that we can't change. Um, and that's because of this designation.
+
+[17:12] Huh, even interior, huh? Most of the time over here. Yeah. Like the the in like the wooden bookshelves, like we can put a kitchen in, but there was like we couldn't put a a gas line, like a gas range or anything in there. Not that we would because we're we're very pro induction.
+
+[17:29] Yeah, you know why? Induction works. Yes. I mean, at the home I have a gas stove, which I love, but but for for the the longer term sustainability of of a kitchen and cooking and things like that, I can understand the appeal of of induction. I mean, there's certain things like uh also use a walk on on induction, you know?
+
+[17:47] Like well for it. I have to say, I always thought that was the case, and maybe still, but like I used an incredibly powerful induction burner with a walk once. It was like it was like five kilowatts. It was something stupid. And I could I could take the walk up to the curie point like very quickly.
+
+[18:10] Now, yes, if you pick it up and toss it, as you pick it up and toss it, you're not on the heat anymore. But the minute it's back on that induction, it is rocking. You know what I mean? So like, you know, especially if you're if you're doing more uh if you're doing less hand tossing style and more like short handle short handle walk work with like uh with like a spatula. I mean, I don't see why you can't get good product out of it.
+
+[18:36] You know what I'm saying? Yeah, you just need to get your hands on this uh uh you know Starship Enterprise uh walk burner. That's crazy. Crazy. I mean, like still um induction walk burners now.
+
+[18:52] I don't know if they're as powerful. No, they're like puny. They're like more available. It's like it's like it's like trying to use a walk on your on your 25,000 BTU or not even, you know, like home gas stove. It's like it's you know what I mean?
+
+[19:07] It's like you know, it's a sad situation. Yeah. Because like you just don't have enough you don't have enough oomph to to get the metal where it needs to be. You know what I mean? You can't, it's not nimble in in that way.
+
+[19:19] But I don't know, Quinn. Maybe, maybe online, maybe especially now, like, you know, someone sells something that I mean, these were expensive commercial units, but I mean it's possible that you could sell one, especially with no safeties or anything on it. The main problem with induction is that it it it like crappy induction tends to break. You know what I mean? Um, like quite often.
+
+[19:38] In fact, or it'll lose strength after a while. Like it'll say you're on maximum temperature and you're not anywhere near that after a few years. Yeah. You know, uh, I just had a problem recently with my fancy the the Breville uh control freak, where in the middle of cooking my meal yesterday, my my T2, my second Thanksgiving, it uh wouldn't recognize pans anymore. I was like, oh no.
+
+[20:02] Oh no. You know what I mean? Like, oh my god. Yeah. So I didn't those aren't cheap, I hope.
+
+[20:08] No, I so I unplugged it, walked away, came back, and it came back to life. But I don't know whether it's on its last legs or what, but I use that thing all the time. I love that thing. Um the reason you are in Los Angeles, Kevin, if for the NOMA land, is that Noma is doing how long of a pop-up? Uh it's gonna be about 16 weeks, I think.
+
+[20:33] Yeah, about 16 weeks. Sometime in spring. Yeah. Yeah, we've left the opening date still ambiguous because we we have yet to announce the the first day and uh the last day, but it'll be in the spring. But you're also going to release the next, well, NOMA is gonna release the next NOMA book guide to flavor at the same time, and you've you've done sections of this.
+
+[20:55] All right. So we have to like, you know, Nastasia wants me to come out and say hello to you in person at some point for the LA thing. Maybe we could uh I don't know if we could work it out with Joe, we can do some sort of uh broadcast or something. What do you think? Yeah, absolutely.
+
+[21:09] Yeah. That'd be that'd be great, actually. So uh better weather than New York, that's for sure. Fly in in the morning and then fly out in the afternoon same day. Gotta be mean to me.
+
+[21:13] Gotta always be mean to me. Uh so what is it uh why why does Noma want to go to LA? No offense, Daz. Why would Noma want to go to LA of all places? Well, I think one of the big factors was uh so kind of the the whole basis of what makes Noma norma is that we're we're very much about time and place, about being in Scandinavia and how the growing season is so short and fermentation came out of a way of preserving the things and how we have to take advantage of what's in season while it's in season and make sure that we could keep things in some modicum of either freshness or or high flavor until the the winter or through the winter.
+
+[21:53] And now we we have the opportunity to go somewhere where the growing season, I mean it ebbs and flows, but there's not really a season where nothing's growing. And there's a a uh Rolodex of ingredients that are so different from what we're what we're used to using in uh in Copenhagen. So the opportunity presented itself where we could take the team on the road and and go and do something so so unique to what we've done for over 20 years by it by opening us up to so many things that we weren't allowed to use previously, like avocados and citrus and famously olive oil. We were um we were very much like a no olive oil kind of restaurant because you you wouldn't get olive oil in that part of the world. And now we're in California where they produce olive oil here.
+
+[22:35] And I've spoken to Nick Fullman about full and visiting producers and things like that. So it's very exciting as uh on the kitchen side, especially to to now see all these ingredients that previously you weren't able to use. So does it actually depress you to have delicious ingredients? I'm just messing with you. Well, the thing so I'm I mean, I'm from the East Coast, and everyone jokes about uh like California strawberries in winter, and it might you know, some restaurants serving strawberries like yeah, like Driscoll, California.
+
+[23:02] And then you go to you go to California, you go to Santa Monta Market, you eat a strawberry, and you're like, oh, California strawberries, not actually that bad. Maybe the joke is on all of us east coasters. Oh no, but during season, they're the best things in the world. Yeah. I mean, are you guys gonna be there during the season?
+
+[23:19] Uh I don't think we'll be there for peak season. Um we'll be we'll be here for citrus season, which is very exciting, all the different uh varieties of citrus. Um but I think berries and stone fruit season, it might be just after we finish up. You guys gotta see who ended up buying Gene Lester's farm outside of Watsonville because he had he had like hundreds of citrus varieties. And they would all be legitimate because they're all growing there.
+
+[23:48] He dead. He way dead. Gene Lester. Yeah, he's dead. But uh the California fruit explorers, and I'm sure Nastasia down there can put you in touch with Carp, who was like, you know, he knows all those people and all the fancy, unless you're already in touch with him.
+
+[24:02] Yeah, I've I visited David. I I uh visited him at his home and we talked fruit for like what, like five hours or something. I could have gone longer, we just had to do something else. Did you talk about pornographic apples? Yes.
+
+[24:14] Yeah, yeah, definitely. But that's his whole dissertation on on uh on high flavor uh in fruits and the mixture of aroma and sweetness. And uh then we we went went up to uh to Andy's Orchard, which is like the Andy Mariani's orchard that he collaborates with uh just north of uh San Martin, I believe, California. Yeah, and uh visited the orchards there. But incredible fruit here.
+
+[24:37] It's no some of the the most amazing flavors I've had in terms of orchards and fruit and and also new kinds of fruit that I've never even seen before. He's also a date master carp. Did you go did you do dates with him? Uh no, we didn't do dates with him. Um we did visit a few other date farms as well.
+
+[24:57] Fascinating, fascinating fruit because you look at them and you think, oh, well, someone's picked them and dried them, but they actually they ripen like that on tree, which I didn't know until uh until I visited and they showed me what they look like coming off the tree. Yeah. Here in New York, we do uh we do apples and uh also apples. That's it. Yeah.
+
+[25:16] But Stas, we also have apples. And look, in in August. Not really. I would not buy a pair from us. I mean, like, you know, no.
+
+[25:31] Uh but like in in August, September, we have uh, you know, we've got God's tomatoes, and that's basically it. That's what we do. You know what I mean? Everything else is fine. I mean, it's similar to Ontario, right?
+
+[25:43] Like Ontario, we get good tomatoes and and peaches, tomatoes and peaches, dog fruit or you get good small fruit too. You got good berry game. Yeah. I I mean, after living in Denmark, the strawberries, strawberries elsewhere don't taste the same as the ones in Denmark. I don't know if you had any of the um strawberries in in Copenhagen when you visited during uh the summer because you you came for vegetable season, so it would have been during berry season.
+
+[26:06] I don't know if you had any of the strawberries in Denmark to be very extraordinary. I did not I didn't I do not remember having them, let's put it that way. So probably not. Well you'll have to come back another summer and I'll I'll take you on uh we'll go to the market because there's a stall there and they have just all about insulting me these days. Hey, by the way, a shout out.
+
+[26:25] If anyone is going to Copenhagen, like walk, like go to the Noma projects, right? You know, uh, you pick up a bottle of Dash Dashi RX or the uh or the uh Yuzu corn hot sauce, which is delicious. And then uh, although now comes in two spiciness variations, I see. Yeah, because the Europeans are uh have shall we say slightly gentler palettes or cutscase intolerance losers anyway. So if you keep walking down that road, don't stop at the at the CCCC, which is the contemporary Cope Copenhagen Circuits College, right?
+
+[27:04] But instead go to the contemporary Copenhagen art museum. I think it's only three C's in that one, and check out the James Tyrrell work there. Completely the best Tyrrell work I think I've ever seen. Only 15 people are allowed. Eight, 15, no, eight people are allowed in at a time for 15 minutes.
+
+[27:23] You have to take off your shoes. They put you in a room where he controls all of the light, and you feel like your brain is being erased. It's kind of amazing. Anyway, it's a shout out to that. Uh also I forget the name of the artist, but there was an amazing bubble exhibit there.
+
+[27:40] Very well done. Anyway, so uh yeah, enjoyed it. Anyway, so um, what else? Let's get this question out of the way. So, in case I forget, because it is the holiday season coming up.
+
+[27:53] Uh Nick W called in and said or wrote in and said, Could we get the bar Contras uh spec for the brandy savage drink? Uh I have gotten a hold of the elusive uh uh Blanche Calvados from Druin, which is a very good, very good, like not expensive Blanche Calvados, right? Uh not non-expensive, good. So here's the trick. I think Quinn says I've given the recipe out before for uh the cranberry cordial, but the real secret is the cranberry cordial.
+
+[28:21] So what you do is uh briefly, you buy unsweetened cranberry juice, please, unsweetened, please, please. Uh, and then uh what we're doing is instead of uh acid adjusting it, we're boiling it down to get the specs right. So you take a 960 grams, grams of unsweetened cranberry juice and you boil it down to 307 grams. You then add 197 grams of sugar. Reweigh it because more stuff will have evaporated off, and make sure that it comes back to 504 grams, then you know it's correct.
+
+[28:56] Now, that has six per, because I did the math for you already, that is six percent acidity and 50% 50 bricks, 50% sugar by weight. And so it's uh the same acidity as lemon or lime juice and the same sugar as simple syrup. So that's the cordial, and then it's one and a half, which is 45 mils of the Drouan Blanche, uh, one half of brouillo, uh, which is uh 15 milliliters, and 7.5 milliliters of the uh reduced cranberry cordial, which is a quarter ounce. Just stir, you know, give it a good stir over ice and pour it into a chilled Nicon Nora. If you don't have Drouin Blanche, you can use uh like a lighter cognac, don't use a heavy one, a light cognac, but then it's gonna need a twist of orange to make it taste good.
+
+[29:41] All right, but I want to get that out of the way in case someone wanted to make that for the Christmas uh or whatever. Uh Kevin, you might have something on this. Uh TV Mush wrote in: Can citric acid stabilized whipped cream? I don't even know why you would say that. It would curdle the the cream, wouldn't it?
+
+[29:58] Yeah, I don't know why you'd say that just listen to a podcast unless you go all the way like like with your um like with your milk and cream syrup that's but then not a lot of sugar yeah just listen to a podcast where citric acid was mentioned as an emulsifier and ice cream just tried using a Xanthan slurry which works okay so the the trick with with the trick with um milks in general is that they are stable again once they've gone way below their isoelectric point in terms of pH but as you pass through you're gonna curdle it so the trick with like my milk syrup my cream syrup is is that you you um prevent large amounts of curdling by just adding a boat ton of sugar um yeah so no but I'll tell you what if you want to stabilize a whipped cream if you want to have whipped cream and you want to add a bunch of acid to it a really easy way to do it is to just lock the acid into a fluid gel and then you can you can add up you can make an extremely tart whipped cream if you use like you know a le a lemon an agar based lemon fluid gel works fantastically I've done that a bunch so I don't know can you can you guys think of anything else on the uh on the on that question I can I mean if they just want stabilized whipped cream also just gel to work fine yeah although I have to say I have to say hydrate it. Uh I've I've done the agar one. I've put it on my counter for three days. It just stays there. I mean, it's the most stable thing I've ever seen in my life.
+
+[31:41] You know what I mean? It's like done. You know what I mean? Like finished. Um anyway.
+
+[31:48] Uh. So by the way, Quinn, did Quinn uh in the last uh thing say he was going to spin his soda gelato and then taste it. Have you spun it and tasted it? Yeah, uh, I would say I actually didn't use enough moxy. I thought the flavor would really punch through, but it still tastes good.
+
+[32:11] But I probably could have used a squish more of the soda. But you really break apart the flavor. I think you can you can taste the actual components better as the gelato versus just uh drinking it. Hmm. Yeah, you should get the syrup.
+
+[32:33] Are you using the actual soda? You should get the syrup. Well, here you had to pay through the nose for the soda. How much pay through the nose? How much?
+
+[32:43] Well, it's cheaper to ship syrup than it is to ship water to uh Vancouver Island, right? Well, I I couldn't again I could barely find the the soda. What the hell made you want to use Moxie of all the sodas on earth? Why Moxie? I thought the bitter fragrant flavor, well, again, the the the flavor I got was actually quite uh Christmasy.
+
+[33:10] But it's like uh licorice and clove and all spice. It's a good. Speaking of Christmassy, the new hot drink on the menu at Bar Contra, because we just got the red hot pokers back, and I now I now do a no weld red hot poker, uh, is an old drink by uh bartender who now lives in um in Berlin, named Dana Corey, crazy guy. Love that guy. Changed his socks at least three times every shift because he ha hated s having swampy feet.
+
+[33:39] Interesting dude. So he had this drink called the the Bishop's Wife. Why it was called that, I don't know. But it is a mixture of bronca menta and cognac and Demarara. Very simple sugar, you know, uh syrup.
+
+[33:54] And then you flame it. And now we we used to just serve it like that. Now we serve it with a Tim Tam. You guys remember Tim Tams? You know, Tim Tams, the Australian wafer thing.
+
+[34:05] Yep. Tim Tam Slam. Yeah, Tim Tam Slam. So here's the thing. Americans, if you've never done the Tim Tam Slam, you're supposed to bite opposite corners of the wafer cookie off, suck hot coffee through the cookie.
+
+[34:21] As soon as you taste coffee in your mouth, you know that you've saturated with hot coffee. You then lift it up, it will instantly melt. You pop the whole sucker in your mouth, right? Seems simple. Yeah.
+
+[34:32] But Americans who don't understand this can't seem to do it properly, right? So like they'll bite the whole end off. I'm like, what are you doing? It needs to stay a straw. What what are you what are you crazy?
+
+[34:44] Like they crack it in half. They do all sorts of these abominations. So because we're doing the Tim Tams at the bar, we're actually just pre-cutting the corners. So that all you have to do is suck on it. Ah, you dummy proof it.
+
+[34:55] Yeah. I'm sure they still miss it. So what happens with the corners? I don't know. Maybe they eat that.
+
+[35:00] I don't know, yeah. That's the you know, the cooks. Old milk and uh Tim Sam corners. Yeah, Tim Tam corners, yeah. Maybe fabulous can like throw them into some ice cream or something, you know what I mean?
+
+[35:09] But we need a lot of Tim Tam corners. But uh anyway, that that's that's what we're that's what we're up to over there. Um Tim Tam Slam is a good thing. Someday I'll go back. I think Nastasia, as much as she hates on the Australian accent, would actually enjoy Australia quite a bit.
+
+[35:24] Oh I think you would. Especially like I think you would like the like especially if the weird crap that is like only there, like the the the birthday bread where you just put the butter on the bread and then and then cover it in sprinkles and like that's your like this because it's really bizarre and not like fancy or high end, just bizarre and only there. That seems like it's right up your alley. I know, but I really have no interest in going there. Okay.
+
+[35:59] All right. All right. Uh all right. So this is a uh general question for uh all guests. What is your go-to food snack post fancy what is your go to food or snack post fancy meal?
+
+[36:13] Hmm. I was taking our I was uh uh see, I was talking our new I was taking our new executive chef out the day after our work dinner to a pretty nice spot in the city. He said even after all the food and drinks, he still ended up getting French fries, got me thinking, what food do I always have room for? I feel like I always have room for a good slice of pizza, but even uh I was too tapped out even for pizza. I'll tell you what, when I went to Noma, they had to roll me in a wheelbarrow home.
+
+[36:36] I did not want anything else. You know what I'm saying? Well, you also went for the longest kitchen tour in the history of at least in the history of me being there. Yeah, no, it's great. It's great.
+
+[36:45] But I mean, like, in other words, like I think like one of the issues about tasting menus, right? And if we say fancy, I'm assuming you mean that is that it's very hard to get them just right. If you're doing 20 things, like a little bit over one way or the other, and you're either viciously underfeeding or vicious viciously over, it's hard to get right, right, Kevin. Yeah, and I mean you also come up against uh a lot of people have this predetermined notion that you're always hungry after tasting menu because it's all the portion sizes are so small, and how do you get full off of eating that? And so what we do when we create a menu is we'll actually we'll cook the whole menu.
+
+[37:21] Uh if like one portion's worth of the entire menu. And this is during the research development phase, like when we finalize the plates that we want to do. So we will end up doing this for the LA menu eventually. And then we'll we'll take the edible parts of every dish and we'll put them into a container to weigh it. And then so we have weights, like we know how heavy every menu is uh that we've ever done at Noma because we do this as part of the resist development process.
+
+[37:42] Just I love it. It's not too much or too little. Give me the range. Uh I can't remember off the top of my head. Um yeah, honestly, I I I'll have to send you the when I when I check the notes, but um we we'll do this we'll play a game and we'll look at it and then every every test kitchen that we're asking guess what they think the like price is right for like closest without going over.
+
+[38:05] Um and they usually some some kind of uh like a dinner dinner for two at some restaurants arranged if you get it right. Nice. But I think that's a good idea. You put it in a big jar. Like when you yeah, I mean jelly beans are in a jar.
+
+[38:21] Yeah, it's uh we do we just have a container on a scale and then every every dish that's cooked, because obviously we're cooking these dishes over and over just to to tweak them and things like that. And then if it's like the like in crab serving, right? Like we don't put the whole the shell and everything in there, we take the part that you would eat and put it in the container. And then the next course we'll take I don't know, the muscle out of the shell and we'll put the part you eat in the container. So by the end of it, you have what is essentially gonna be the inside of a guest's stomach, because it's only the parts that you would consume in this container.
+
+[38:50] And then we weigh back and then we can kind of gauge is it too much, is it too little? Small things, like is it we only do two parts on this or three parts on this? Is it too like a few grams too much broth, a few grams too little? Like there's a lot of uh a lot of tweaking that has to go on when we do these menus right before we uh we serve it to the public. I love the idea that all this like super fancy, like like highly tweaked stuff, you just kinda chum it up and throw it into a bucket.
+
+[39:19] You're like, all right, here it is, chummed up and thrown in a bucket. And then are are you ever like are you ever like, nah, the bucket's too light, add some more. Or is it just for knowledge? Uh it's it's just for for knowledge. Um, but if we if we look at it and we're like, oh, it's actually a really light menu.
+
+[39:37] Now obviously there's certain things like not that we would serve foie gras, but foie gras, for example, is not the heaviest food, but it is something that you can't eat very much of. So we have to take that in con into consideration as well, obviously. But there have been instances where it's like, is this enough food? Do we add an extra course? Um just to bring up the number a little bit.
+
+[39:56] Because like like you said, our goal is that you're not rolling out of the restaurant, but you're also not hungry afterwards. So it's just like this middle ground that we uh I think we just drive for. Part of the rolling was also you guys liquored us up pretty good. But uh I think you know, the thing War Shortle was talking about with the eating afterwards, I think we it is part of this old school kind of uh war chortle does not appear to be anti-fine dining, but there is a bit of an F you, you didn't feed me enough, I spent a billion dollars on dinner, I'm still gonna go get a slice of pizza situation. You know what I mean?
+
+[40:27] That is a real thing. Yeah, like people go for a cheeseburger after after a tasty menu or something like that. Yeah. Although, yeah. I mean, as I say, I think it's very it's very difficult.
+
+[40:39] I like I've never been full, I've never not been able to eat because I don't have enough money to go to sushi and then totally feel tapped out. Have any of you guys ever been totally tapped out at a sushi restaurant? Uh I think once I think you see, I think just once. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[41:06] Usually my wallet taps out before my mouth does. You know what I mean? Don't you think zero, Dave, when you had that squillamantis, you were like, I don't know about this anymore. Well, listen, not that, you know, I can't believe he's not dead, first of all, which is bizarre. He's still alive, that guy, I think.
+
+[41:23] You think he's a hundred now. Uh I wasn't full, I just thought the squillamantis was a terrible dish. And by the way, I'm not against manta shrimp as a thing. That particular manta shrimp was a nightmare, right? But I was not full at the end.
+
+[41:41] The whole meal only lasted 20 minutes. How could I possibly get full? You know? Um, I heard you you and Stars speed ran uh Jiro. Well, Mark Ladner, who was going with us at the time, he was speed running out of his backside because of a trip he had taken where he got poisoned.
+
+[41:59] So he was in and out anyway. And you know, I don't enjoy I don't enjoy eating slowly. So if you put something in front of me, it's eaten, right? So then Mark and Nastasia felt like they needed to keep up with me. Right.
+
+[42:15] And so the whole meal was over in like 22 seconds. You know what I'm saying? It was literally 22 seconds. You weren't speedrunning. You were just running.
+
+[42:23] They were speedrunning. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And Zero was keeping up with Dave as the pacemaker, you know?
+
+[42:31] So or the son of everyone helped. It's like everything else, though. I tell people don't pace yourself to me. That's why people are like, I'm like, literally, don't wait. I'm like, don't wait.
+
+[42:41] When people get served first, I'm like, literally, don't wait. I will still be finished before you're done. If you think he would have would not have waited, he would not have waited for us. Yes, he would have. Where is this coming from?
+
+[42:54] Where is this quote unquote knowledge coming from? You could see that he was looking to you to keep the pace of the freaking. He wasn't looking to me for squat. He hated me as much as he hated you. There's no, there's like, you know what I mean?
+
+[43:10] It's like this is just a theory you have, not based, and we're never gonna test it. Because he finally passed it over to his like 80-something year old son now, poor guy, waiting his whole life to run the restaurant. He doesn't get to do it till he's 80s, like the King Chucky Cheese of sushi restaurants. That's King Charles, wherever his current number is. You know what I mean?
+
+[43:28] But it's like uh, you know, don't blame me for you feeling you had to rush to to match me. We should have split parties. You should have sat by yourself, and then Mark and I should have sat by ourselves. Then it was like it would be like two separate parties. A we couldn't have gotten the reservation if we had done that.
+
+[43:50] Right. There's no way we could have gotten that reservation if we had we only did that because literally the park Hyatt like twisted everybody's arm off to get us that reservation, like in like one day. A miracle. Like there's no way we should have gotten that reservation. Mark said that we like to carry things on our back, and then that was the end of the day.
+
+[44:09] Yeah. For for the record, Nastasi and I don't like calling things like idiots. It's just we have no choice. Just have no choice. Um so what do you what have you messed with so far?
+
+[44:27] At what point in setting this up are you with the NOMA right now in LA? Uh so we haven't started actual dishes yet. We're doing um kind of an ingredient exploration. So to rewind a little bit, we were here in March on like a covert research mission under the guise like we had not announced we would come in to LA or anything. So we were visiting farms under the guise of like, oh, we're just in town and we just we're chefs and we'd like to visit and just see your avocados farm.
+
+[44:54] You literally said we're chefs. We're chefs. You might have heard of a restaurant, it's called NOMU. Is that what you did? No, no, no.
+
+[45:00] We don't mention the restaurant. All right. We said that we like because we're also very multinational. So people are kind of very very confused about how we were all from different parts of the world, but we were here looking at things and and asking really weird questions. Like we're asking date farmers, like, what do you do with gun rights dates?
+
+[45:16] Or do you ever use the branches? What about the like questions that no one no same person would be asking a date farmer? Um so we we did this, it was about three weeks in March, and we visited a whole bunch of farms and fish purveyors and and just to get a a a grasp of what would be around at that time of year if we were to come back the next year and and open up around around the springtime. Wait, hold on, hold on. Were you literally thinking you were gonna do your oil combi oven vacuum bag situation with date branches and you were talking about that yeah like that's something we we thought about one of like we're we're asking about the branches one of our guys has already broken off from the group and is just gnawing on on stripped off branches and things like that.
+
+[45:59] But like they're palm trees though, right? So like they don't they don't I mean they're just a whole different McGill right did you get anything good out of it? No, but but now we know right that's that's part of the the R and D of it all. But so so right now we we're we're situated in we've built uh a test kitchen and I've got a a fermentation lab where my incubators are uh our marijuana growing temps that have the the humidity and temperature regulators which actually works quite well for growing things like Koji. Um and then we're just bringing in ingredients at various points of ripeness various types of ingredients um like we're we're really like we we ordered in every avocado we could find the like the the haas obviously but then you get into like the Mexicola where you can it's small and you can eat the skin and the skin tastes like licorice and then we're roasting them full in coals we're we're preserving the skin like a like a jam like a marmalade and then trying different techniques and that's just with avocados and then you think about all the other things that we can work on as well the whole a whole bunch of citrus coming in and what can we do with the piss?
+
+[47:03] What can we do with the skin, the the flesh, the juice um so right now is that kind of explosive uh part of the research development where we're just trying to gather as many ingredients as possible and gather as much information as what is possible to do with all of these different things that we have. Anything you thought would be a slam dunk, but you haven't been able to crack it yet. Uh cactus is hard because of the spine. Yeah. Cactus has been uh like we've made progress.
+
+[47:29] There's some cool stuff we're doing, but initially like we were all looking at each other, like, man, everything in California is really bitter or really slimy. And then that was just a big hurdle of us trying to figure out exactly how to, you know, with using things like calcium hydroxide to to deal with the slime because traditionally it would be baking soda that that's uh a lot of the the Mexican families would use to prepare the no palets without the ski the slime and things like that. So eventually you kind of develop a new a new technique and method for all these ingredients. But initially it was just tasting a lot of weird stuff. At Booker and Dax, we used to have it.
+
+[48:07] Go ahead. Can you talk about what you use the spin ball for to kind of plug our product? Yes. So um so Nastasia very graciously gifted us with uh three spin balls. Um so I don't know if I've set the record for uh for the uh the most simultaneous spin balls running.
+
+[48:26] Uh but we've been using it for for herb oils, uh the same way we use our our buckets and our cage back home, so we can increase the yield by spinning our our pulp um to get the the most extraction out. We've made uh avocado oil, which um you take your avocados, you you dehydrate them, the split out the fat, and then you spin the pulp in the spin off. It almost uh a horrible noise all you do is like a size now tasting off when you've got three of those things running, but uh we're able to get that little seven to ten percent yield of oil that that tastes like an avocado, which is really cool. Yeah, for herbs, it actually really is good at dewatering an herb oil. Swear to god, it is.
+
+[49:03] You just have to get the numbers right. That's the trick. I think it's why that a lot of people don't do the the stuff, is because it's all about floating the oil off of the top. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[49:12] Anyway. Yeah, and we're notoriously like uh like obviously high high flavor, but I uh high difficulty low yield, high uh like kind of restaurant where we'll do a whole bushel of something in order to get two tablespoons of a concentrated thing out of it. So using a spinz all is uh it allows us to maintain our yield margins because otherwise a lot of what we do wouldn't be possible. Yeah. Nice.
+
+[49:37] So back to cactus. I had to do that. Are you able to talk about what anyway is Kevin able to talk about any uh initial results from uh Rancho Gordo Miso? Any hits? Um yeah, so I did the I did a test in Copenhagen with Red Fog Ordo beans.
+
+[49:58] Um I haven't made a batch in California yet, but we used something called the California Corona bean. And it was um in general, they were all very high quality misos, but I think because they're heirloom beans, they all had very distinct flavor, uh which is good on one hand, but if we're using our misos for uh mixing with other ingredients like like pink pepper corns, which are everywhere in in in Los Angeles, or with um citrus peel to things like that. Sometimes the the strength of having a bean that's so delicious and has so much flavor almost interferes with what we're trying to infuse the miso with. So it's definitely something we've got in the back pocket because it it works and it's delicious. Um but right now it's uh not something I've produced in California yet.
+
+[50:42] Yeah. I used to be able back to cactus. I used to be able to get the snot out of it because we had a drink on the menu. I didn't develop it, where we would blend the cactus and then spin it, and it wasn't snotty, and then I tried to recreate it when I was redoing the book, and I couldn't. It all turned to snot.
+
+[51:00] It was all terrible. I couldn't get anything that tasted good. So it's one of those techniques that at one point I knew how to do it and I've lost it. Like pressure cooking mustard seeds. I can't make them good anymore.
+
+[51:09] For some reason, I can't make a good batch anymore. They all taste bitter to me now. Well, we've noticed that too with uh the cactus as well. Like we we ran some cactus through a juicer and like the slime separated out, and we had this like like water, water viscosity cactus juice. And then we did it again with another cactus, like the same species of cactus.
+
+[51:27] We did it again, and it was like mucus. Yeah, weird, right? So I don't know if it's depends on the cactus or on on a rain, maybe because we had a massive rainstorm um around the time that we were doing this. So maybe the cactus was more waterlogged. I don't know.
+
+[51:41] Uh yeah, we've been noticing that too is the the difference between ingredients. These are all uh opuntia species, uh you know, uh different opuntias that are lying around. Uh but same ones, and of course I think the paddles come from the same ones that give you the prickly pear stuff, um, which are also of widely varying quality. You know what I'm saying? Like the really good stuff is good, and the really bad stuff is terrible.
+
+[52:05] You know what I mean? It tastes like pool water. Yes, awful, and bad texture too. You know what I mean? The bad ones.
+
+[52:11] Whereas I so like for years I wouldn't even use them, and then I forget where I was. I don't forget where I was. Like maybe Juarez or something, and like I got all the choconosle, and they were like, That stuff's good, you know what I mean? Which is like whatever they were calling. So it's just like these things are so variable.
+
+[52:28] It's like mulberries, they're so variable. Like, even like one tree next to the other, one's gonna be terrible and one's gonna be delicious. That's why like some of these things aren't necessarily easy to commercialize, right? Because they're the cultivars aren't as locked in. We have uh so we start did you eat mulberries when you ate with us in the summertime?
+
+[52:45] It's possible. Was one of you deserts some mulberries? It's possible. Because we have so on the Islander Born Home, which is part of Denmark, but it's on the other on the other side of Sweden. There's a woman who has a mulberry tree that's I like a hundred years old.
+
+[52:57] So it's an old tree. And at one point in his life it was hit by lightning and it fell over and started growing sideways. So if you don't have to climb up as high to get the fruit. And we have this woman on a retainer. But every year we pay her a certain amount of money for the rights to her tree because the fact that it grows sideways makes it so easy for us to pick a large amount of berries.
+
+[53:14] And they're very high quality mulberries. Yeah. I mean, like, I love a high quality. They're also so fragile. What a heartache they are.
+
+[53:20] You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, you come back covered in purple grease. Yeah, but now that you say growing sideways, I have the old Paul Wall saw song, Sitting Sideways going through my head. And now I'm imagining Paul Wall like sipping on lean and picking mulberries off of your tree in Bornholm.
+
+[53:37] You know what I mean? That's a good tune. And a classic album cover because it's just his giant grill. You know what I mean? Paul Wall.
+
+[53:45] Yeah. Paul Wow baby. Anyway, uh apparently he's a nice fellow. I hear he's not a bad guy. All right.
+
+[53:53] Good gang. Uh what? He's a good hang? I think, yeah, but that's what I mean. I've never met him.
+
+[53:58] But you know, I hear he's like a decent, I hear he's a decent dude. You know what I mean? As far as like, you know, uh that era of rapper goes. Um, so I realized that I didn't I gave part of my recipe for T2. I just did T2, by the way, which is Thanksgiving 2, Kevin.
+
+[54:16] And so uh my my week in review was basically that, right? So Dax comes home from from Denmark. I actually made the Danish thing two weeks ago because I knew I was gonna do T2, but I wanted to use the cat scratch fever machine that you bought me before I spoke to you. So I did the Danish Christmas sandwiches two weeks ago and last week I did T2. So here's because people for some reason constantly ask me about the turkey technology.
+
+[54:41] Here's my current, my current turkey technology. First of all, I cut the hell out of my thumb. Let me tell you something, people. Nothing is worse than boning frozen birds. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[54:52] I took this sucker out of the freezer, right? First of all, if you're gonna buy a turkey in the United States of America, in New York City at least, buy it before Thanksgiving because here's what happens. All of the quote unquote fresh, which I don't know if they actually are fresh, they're probably actually were thawed at some point. All the ones at the supermarket has left, the crappy supermarkets anyway, they throw all of them into the freezer. And you can see because they're in the freezer with the word fresh on them.
+
+[55:17] So you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You took this bird and you threw it in your garbage can freezer. It took forever to freeze. So I know that when it thaws out, it's gonna be nothing but a drip testrophe and it's gonna suck, right? Because I want i if I'm I don't mind a frozen bird, but I want it frozen properly from you know, from the processor, right?
+
+[55:38] I mean, I don't know whether you guys agree, but uh that's my belief. So, and it's so it was hard. So I I ended up buying my turkey because turkeys in the United States are free around Thanksgiving because they that's the lost leader. So you can go into a Target or a Letl or a Trader Joe's or whatever, and they they they charge you probably less than they're paying for the turkey so that you buy all the other crap that goes with it. So anyway, so I grabbed a spare turkey before Thanksgiving and threw it in my freezer.
+
+[56:06] I put it in my fridge to thaw a full six days before I needed to use it, and it was still freaking frozen on the inside. And you know, chunks of ice because that's how they jacked up, that's how they jacked the right. They they inject it with stuff and then the ice precipitates out into the body cavity. So you always have this ice in the body cavity. Still frozen.
+
+[56:27] And so it is so hard, especially the older I get, the less dexterity I have in my hands when they're frozen, right? And so you can't really feel what's happening. So you're constantly having to look down and see what happens. And it's so easy in that situation when you're that cold to slip and hit yourself. So I did.
+
+[56:44] And so then I had to, and then the only glove I had in the house, because they all got taken, right, had been exposed to ozone because I have an ozone generator in my in my uh what's it called? Closet to like, you know, take the stink out of shoes. And so the minute I put it on, it completely shredded as I put it on my hand. So I had just this little finger cot so I could finish the rest of my cooking. But anyway, I eventually boned it out.
+
+[57:05] I completely boned it because I didn't really care because this wasn't Thanksgiving one, that it looked 100% turkey like. So I actually took all of the leg bones out as well, right? And then I used those to make the, you know, you roasted that, you roast that with uh celery onion and carrot, a lot of onion because you're gonna pressure cook it. And then I reinforced a store-bought chicken stock, because whatever, you know what I mean? Whatever.
+
+[57:30] So then I pressure cooked that stock, cooled it, took the oil and and some of the all the oil and some of the stock off. Then I pre-salted the turkey. You can do this in one day. Pre-salted the turkey and sugared it on the on the bottom. Uh, and then I laid it out to flat to dry for like two hours, and then injected the breast meat with some of the stock mixed with salt and sugar.
+
+[57:52] Then I made my stuffing plug, heated that in the ANOVA, covered in plastic wrap at 100% uh humidity and like 185 degrees Fahrenheit until the thing was hot all the way through. Then draped the turkey over that that I had injected into the breast meat only, roasted it off, sears all the Sears all one corner that was getting too blonde because it didn't get enough radiation. And everyone said it was the best one I had made so far. Uh all right. So that was my that was my T2.
+
+[58:21] Uh I also made, you know, I make these richarelli cookies, but I make them with pecans now. It's an almond cookie made with uh it's an almond cookie made with uh what's it called? Uh eggs, right? And some people put flour, cornstarch in, but I don't. It's just I just eggs and nuts and and sugar.
+
+[58:38] And this year I made them also with pistachios and cashews, and people enjoyed the pistachio and cashew ones as well. So cashews are a little wetter. Anyway, so Kevin, what do you got in the next minute and 15 seconds that you want to say about uh either what you've cooked this last week or stuff that you have uh going on for the Noma? Um I mean, let's well we're talking about Thanksgiving and then the turkey that you you just did. Like I I also use your your mom stuffing recipe as well.
+
+[59:04] I I cooked the turkey for Thanksgiving in America for the Noma team. And uh it's every chef I've met since that day has commented on the turkey because when they took uh a video of me talking about it and how I I used the mayonnaise based for the outside of the turkey. So a lot of people are like, oh yeah, you baked the turkey for the Delma team. Get the mayonnaise based and it's become a weird calling card where people have never met before comment on it because it's obviously a grill would go viral on on social media. So give me give me your mayonnaise-based spec.
+
+[59:35] Give me the mayonnaise-based spec. And m my mom thanks you for your support. Yeah, I mean, you gotta trademark the rest of it because I think a lot of people are gonna be using it this holiday season. But uh so the um underneath the skin of the turkey, I do like a compound butter, some basically, you know, lemon zest, uh parsley, garlic, and then whatever leftover compound butter I mix with mayonnaise, and then that becomes the uh the outer layer on top of the skin. Huh?
+
+[1:00:00] And then I find the mayonnaise kind of keeps everything emulsified for a bit longer than if it was just butter, so it stays and it browns really nicely gets super crispy. Love that. Send me send me a picture. I'd love to love to see it and check it out. And Kevin, uh a pleasure as always, and hopefully we will see you when Noma starts its McGillakudi out there in Los Angeles at the unnamed spring date, but uh appreciate it.
+
+[1:00:24] And this will be the last cooking issues of the year. Yeah. Kevin, you're rounding out the whole year. Uh we'll see you folks in 2026 cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City with a special doubleheader cooking issues, first time ever. No John in the studio, but I do have Joe Hazenrocking the panels. What's up? Hey, good morning.
+
+[0:26] Morning, morning. Yeah. We're doing a double header. Double. Double trouble.
+
+[0:31] Double double double. We also do have no Jackie Molecules, so we'll have to keep our molecule talk short. But we do have Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. How you doing? I'm good.
+
+[0:42] How are you? I mean, you know, still breathing, you know, you know how they do. Keep sucking in wind and breathing out CO2. Uh and in the upper left, we have Quinn. How you doing?
+
+[0:52] Awesome breathing, so you know. Nice. It's all it's a little greedy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[0:56] You know, once you have the the breathing, you're like, you know, you're pretty much that's the bare minimum that you get. And uh, so if you are listening live on our Patreon, right? You can listen to this, pause for like 10 or 15 minutes. And the second half of our doubleheader is uh Kevin Jungwongtime uh friend of the show, uh Patreon member, uh, calling in. Uh, and we're gonna talk Noma, but for the first half, we are very happy to have back with uh is this the second book you've written since the first one you came back?
+
+[1:24] In other words, is this the next book after the one, the islands book? Or did you do a book in between? Katie Parla, by the way. We're talking to Katie Parla. Chow.
+
+[1:31] Oh, so there's another book in between Oh no, Chow. Chow's hello. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But is there another book in between the islands in the Rome? Not a solo title, but I have co-authored other books in the meantime.
+
+[1:41] You're the Robert Simonson of Italian books. In other words, he'll Hele wakes up in the morning and he looks on the bedstand, and the little elves have cobbled him a book. I feel like you're the same way. I would love to know his actual process because he's prolific and uh that's a very generous comparison. Uh my I do not look at the bedstand and find a uh a book.
+
+[2:02] I procrastinate for seven months and then write 80,000 words in a manic episode and lose all my friends and and family support. Do you get the same friends back or different ones? Usually different ones, obviously. Yeah. I feel terrible.
+
+[2:16] Yeah. Well, uh so we're gonna get to our normal like, you know, week, week of the week in review and whatnot, but uh a couple of things where we someone remind me if I don't get around to it, because I'm gonna get lost in the in the vagaries of this book. Current book is Rome, a culinary history cookbook and field guide to the flavors that built a city. Where this is basically been your home base for the past 20 change years, 22. 23 in January.
+
+[2:40] Yeah. We're creeping up on the quarter century. When in January did you move? The 13th. Oh, that's the that's the day before my two kids' birthdays.
+
+[2:46] Exciting. Both on the same day. Yeah, three years apart, same day. Hi. I'm like basically once we stash once every three years.
+
+[2:56] Right on. Oh. Yeah. Love that energy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[3:00] You know, gotta keep it like uh I have some German in me, so I gotta keep it, you know, rigorous. You know what I mean? Disciplined. Yeah, disciplined. You lack discipline.
+
+[3:08] Uh all right. So uh, but one things uh we need to talk about is I was shocked, shocked to find out. I don't know whether it was the first one you did, but the islands book completely self published. Yeah. And this one also.
+
+[3:20] Same. Yeah. So we wanted to talk about that for people who are interested in this whole thing. And there was something else. Oh, yeah.
+
+[3:26] The last book you shot unbelievably, by the way, if you take a look at the islands book that, you know, I don't know, what was it, a year ago? Year now. It was two and a half years ago. Jesus. Uh so two and a half years ago came on with the islands book.
+
+[3:40] And it looks like you took months to shoot it, shot it in a week. Freaking nuts. I I only was there on site. It was Ed Anderson who works as magic. He's the fastest photographer in the game.
+
+[3:53] I have to say that's amazing. I wanted to like, I wanted to go home and like just beat my head against the wall. The fact that you were able to shoot that book in a week, I was like, I am a loser. Right. We were both legally insane at the end of the process.
+
+[4:06] It was super, super, super crazy. But we made it happen in, you know, just uh another Ed Anderson shout-out. He is brilliant, works fast, and uh everyone falls in love with him immediately, even when he wears shorts and cargo shorts and stuff in the winter in Italy, which is offensive. Should not do it's offensive everywhere. Yeah.
+
+[4:21] I mean, not everywhere. In Italy, it's like I could have my citizenship provoked for uh for hanging around with people like that. No, but he's he's the perfect collaborator of him. There's no way you could know this, but I don't wear shorts ever. In fact, there is a uh a large number of my friends who don't believe I have legs.
+
+[4:39] I've never seen your calves, so no one has. Yeah, right, right, right. We're on the same page. I like it. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[4:51] Uh all right, so uh week in review, Stas. Let's start with you. What do you got for me? Uh nothing right now. Come back to me.
+
+[5:00] Okay. Queen, what do you got? Uh well, again, we're gonna do two segments, so I could talk about my dinner, or I could process and taste the gelato a lot of. Listen, which is a good one. Choose one.
+
+[5:12] Choose one. Since we're six since since we're in Italian land now, do the gelato. Okay, you want me to process the gelato? Yeah. Before you do that though, why do the Italians have so many different foods called rags?
+
+[5:27] You got the cheese, you got the soup, you got the you got the ice cream or the whatever you want to call it. So many rag based. Yeah, um, you stumped me. Yeah, and what's your favorite rag based? Is it the soup you have in this book?
+
+[5:40] The soup. It's gotta be the soup. It's so good. Yeah? Yeah.
+
+[5:43] I look yeah, uh you you sold it well in the book. Yeah. Luscious, fluffy. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[5:48] Savory. And and uh in in the book, is the height you above it like you you say that it matters, but like if I go lower or higher, if I go lower, what? It pillows out no, it pillows out more if you go higher. Yeah. All right.
+
+[6:00] And you like a what was it, a six inch drop? Yeah, 200 millimeters, as you would say in your world. Isn't that right? 200 millimeters? That feels right.
+
+[6:08] Oh, don't don't quiz me on metric inversions. No, no, it's I know it's less, it's it's 2.54. We'll deal with it later. It's like no, it's like 500%. You wanna translate the book into for the Europeans in a metric?
+
+[6:18] Humanity. All right, Quinn, go. Gelato. Well no, I gotta, like I said, I gotta process it. Oh, I'm gonna spin it in the cream.
+
+[6:30] Yeah, yeah. You're familiar with the uh slightly obscure soda moxie. It well, it's not obscure to me, but yes, I'm familiar with it. Well, maybe it's you know in the upper in the upper reaches of Canada, it's it's uh unfamiliar with it. But why would you want uh why why would you make a moxie based?
+
+[6:49] What led you to make a moxie-based situation? Uh I made like a standard like cola gelato bullet before, like you know, maybe half the composition is the cola, and then the rest is you know, milk and cream and enough sugar to you know balance everything. And I like that, and I thought uh moxie would be interesting. I I like moxy, but it is intense. I thought it would be interesting, slightly diluted.
+
+[7:14] Now, correct me if I'm wrong. The label has like a uh a Wendy's mascot looking lady on the front, right? Like some pigtail action. I think it's a guy. It's a guy?
+
+[7:29] Oh, it's a guy holding the the thing up like the yeah, I can't even keep you know what's a really not a great soda, but an interesting motto? Razcal. You ever had Rascal? Razcal is uh like uh Northeastern thing, was I don't even know it still exists. I believe it's a bunny rabbit on the front.
+
+[7:46] And their motto is nobody famous drinks it. Flavor? Like fake res. Okay. Color?
+
+[7:56] Red. Interesting. Red. But like self-fulfilling prophecy on that. Like, you know, Stas hangs out with famous people.
+
+[8:02] If if someone said no one famous drinks it, would they drink more of it or less of it? More. More, yeah. Sounds like something from the Hobbit. Freaking famous.
+
+[8:11] I know, right? Nobody famous drinks it. But that's like um when I was a kid, I know I've discussed this on the air before, but one of the classic all-time ads, might have been Stan Freeburg who did it. He was a famous ad guy back in the day. Dead.
+
+[8:22] Real dead. R I P. Yeah. Uh peak freens. You familiar with peak freens?
+
+[8:27] Peak freens are a rather standard English style tea biscuit. Relatively thin, relatively not sweet, pasty, semi vanilla. You're selling it. I like them actually. But anyway, the story was they had an advertisement.
+
+[8:42] Peak freens are a very uh peak freens are extraordinarily serious. Cookies. They're made for grown-ups. And then so, like, like they're like peak freens are too good for children. And that was their whole AV campaign.
+
+[8:54] When I was a kid, I was like, I want pink marines. Yeah. I want a peak freedom. I'm not a baby, I'm a grown-up. Oh, yeah.
+
+[8:59] I need these. Yeah. They're serious. Very serious. Anyway.
+
+[8:59] I feel like I don't know that. Did people still make really good jingles or is it dead now? Uh I fast forward through commercials on pod, so sorry. That's why. I think no one, no one's spending the time doing good jingles anymore.
+
+[9:15] Sad. It's real sad. Real sad. Um all right. So you're gonna process that and come back with your uh moxie tastings.
+
+[9:22] And when you say tasting, is it a comparative tasting or just moxie yes, moxie no? Do you have like um no, just like is moxie good as a gelato flavor? And you're gonna base it on your knowledge of other soda gelati that you have made. Well, I'm gonna judge if it if it tastes good. You might enjoy eating it.
+
+[9:45] Yeah, but that that you're not getting my point here. My point is that all soda gelatos could suck. Or you had a really good soda gelato, and this one doesn't stand up to you. See the difference. All right, so you process it and you come back.
+
+[10:00] So uh see, what should I talk about? Yesterday, my son Dax came home from his semester abroad in Copenhagen, and he uh, you know, he didn't get to have Thanksgiving, and apparently he couldn't find turkey in Copenhagen. I mean, I don't think he looked. Tragic. Yeah, so he had chicken.
+
+[10:18] Not right. Not no, not Thanksgiving. You know what I mean? No, and his friend who may or may not know how to cook, I don't know. He was the appointed cook of their dorm area, but what does that mean?
+
+[10:28] Nothing, really, right? Made the mashed potatoes. I tried to give some verbal instructions on the mashed potatoes over the telephone. We'll talk more about mashed potatoes. I noticed your gnocchi recipe, no eggs.
+
+[10:38] No. And is this don't need them? Is this what I'm doing wrong? Is this why my gnockies suck? Because I am adding eggs?
+
+[10:43] Uh, it could be because you're a potatoes are too wet. Nah. I mean, look, I haven't made one in years because I might it's the moisture contents what's gonna affect it the most. In my adding eggs, you're adding it. Yeah, yeah, that ruins it.
+
+[10:55] In my mid-20s, I just stopped. I was like, nope. And then Wiley, my brother-in-law, Wiley Dufrein, he's trying to bring back the gnocchi perizienne or however you pronounce it, which they're fine. It's shoe, it's like shoe pastry, boiled shoe pastry. Yeah.
+
+[11:07] It usually tastes really bad. I mean, don't work it too much. Use old, old, old dusty potatoes. No eggs. No sugar.
+
+[11:15] Little sugar. Barely any. A little bit sugar. What am I talking about? Flour.
+
+[11:18] Flour. Flour. No sugar, guys. Salt. Salt.
+
+[11:21] Salt. Well, or do you salt them or you salt the water to hell? I know you like a salty water. I love a salty water. Um I think I had a pinch of salt.
+
+[11:30] I'm pretty sure. Hmm. Hmm. I don't know, you taste it. So here's the thing.
+
+[11:34] We have Fox on the other day who wrote a book on pasta recently called pasta. What was it called, Quinn? Six six seasons of pasta. Six seasons of pasta. P.S.
+
+[11:45] The other extra seasons are just breaking summer up into three seasons. Okay, yeah. All right. That checks out. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[11:51] Yeah. Fall is still fall. Winter and spring are still they're their thing. But summer you get three. You got your early summer, your summer, and your summer.
+
+[12:02] You know what I mean? Yeah. Anyway. By the way. We kind of have that too.
+
+[12:05] What do you guys actually know in in Italy? Oh yeah? Well But no one talks about no one talks about it like that there. But now that I'm thinking about it, it's like you get your stone fruits and then they're gone. Don't you dare ask for stone fruit in July.
+
+[12:15] Yeah. Yeah. That shit's burnt. They like don't do that? No, it's like, I want a fig.
+
+[12:19] No, you can't have it. It's May. Get out of here. Come back in August. Right.
+
+[12:22] But you then you were saying, are the figs really so good that you want to eat them? In in because you have the you have like a one recipe is like just cut up some push roots and some freaking figs, call it a day. What what else do you need? Maybe put it inside of a Bianca. Maybe.
+
+[12:36] If you're going crazy. Yeah, but like are they really that good? Are they better than the what first of all, what style are they? So compared to the US ones. We get the They're the ones that are uh super pale green on the outside.
+
+[12:48] They're anywhere from like magenta to purple on the inside. They burst open if you look at them too like uh aggressively. And they're called Septembrini. So they're like a later harvest fig, even though September obviously is in the name, you can also find them in August. They are jammy and delicious.
+
+[13:05] You eat the skin, there's no bitterness even in like the little part that touches the branch. Uh and they are next level. They're they're insane. We get earlier figs, uh Fioroni and things from Puglia. Loser figs.
+
+[13:18] Loser figs, yeah, for jerks. Yeah. But they're they're just like a little bit more vegetable tasting. I feel I feel we could be friends. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[13:27] Uh uh, but yeah, different different like flavor profile. You can put it next to Bridge if you want, but you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend it. Yeah. Yeah. Uh all right.
+
+[13:35] Uh so anyway, so I made what I like to call T2. Since I don't have Thanksgiving at my house anymore because my sister won't come into the city anymore, neither will my mom or my stepfather. Like, we've been going out there, freaking Westchester, you know what I mean? And so I don't do Thanksgiving at home anymore. So I've a bit for the past like I don't know, four or five years I've been doing T2.
+
+[13:55] I really I have to say I like T2 because I can strip it down to like the basics. I don't need to have all of the like millions of side dishes. I can just do the ones that are important to me. My mom's T2, what day? Well, Thanksgiving too.
+
+[14:08] T two. But I get to choose what day. Usually I do a little bit of a big thing. Number two or T-O-O. You could do it either way.
+
+[14:14] Okay. I I do it the number two. Okay. Like Terminator 2. Although can you imagine if Terminator 2 T2 had been Terminator T O O and it had been sort of like like two men in a little lady situation?
+
+[14:25] Would have been amazing. Reboot. Yeah. Need to do it. Right for a reboot.
+
+[14:28] Right now. I mean, Arnold can now be what? And what can he play in it? He's like 90 now. Not really.
+
+[14:33] He's like 80. Anyways. Point being, I did my T2, but maybe I'll talk about the nuts and bolts of the T2 later. But real pared down. Parker house rolls, turkey, which I'll go into excruciating detail on later.
+
+[14:48] My mom stuffing, gravy, duh, and I make anything else. Mashed potatoes. No cranberry. Oh, yeah, cranberry. I did cranberry.
+
+[14:56] I didn't do the sweet potatoes. Okay. Stuffing such. Yeah, my mom's stuffing. Okay.
+
+[14:59] But uh I had to, it was I had to do vegetarian and gluten-free. So I was I was dancing through needles. I was, hey, listen, I have to say something. I have to say something. Impossible brand fake loose breakfast sausage in the tube is in stuffing a passable substitute for the pork-based sausage.
+
+[15:20] Okay, good to know. Yeah. And luckily, I had a non-pork observ uh non-pork eating, mildly observant Jewish person come as well to T2 yesterday because Dax brought like four of his buddies. And they were like, oh my God, this has pork. And I was like, no, I don't.
+
+[15:34] Vegetarian baby. Perfect. Well, I'm not vegetarian because I mean I roasted a turkey over it. You know what I'm saying? Sure.
+
+[15:40] Yeah. But it'll work in a bit. Yeah. Not vegan because butter. I mean, come on.
+
+[15:43] There are limits. Of course there are. Gotta be reasonable in life. Yeah. And this I'll mention.
+
+[15:48] So my mom's stuffing, Dave Chang has popularized my mom's stuffing, strangely. And it is quite good. But it's not like a traditional all the normal stuffing rules go out the window. What like not dry bread, like bread right out of the package, manar and oranges, bunch of sausage, sauteed mushrooms, celery, onions, yeah, butter, poultry seasoning, 70s style. Dank.
+
+[16:12] You know, eggs. So much butter. Anyway, yeah, yeah. I'm starving. Right?
+
+[16:18] It's a good product. It sucks. You can only like really bust that out one day a year. Or two. You could too.
+
+[16:23] If you do tea too. Touche. It's like some people have the friends giving, but since I don't have friends, you just can't have one. Yeah. It's not not a not even an option.
+
+[16:32] Yeah. I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah. It's fine. You know.
+
+[16:36] It's fine. It's fine. My wife has friends. I actually do have friends. I just don't really see them very often.
+
+[16:40] You know what I mean? Yeah. You don't have to, you know, explain yourself to me. I'm not really Nastasia. I'm not anti-people, right?
+
+[16:48] I don't know. It's weird. I'm still trying to figure it out after all these years why why you don't hang out. I'm a homebody. Because you know what?
+
+[16:59] You sent Dave sent me this, like, this uh quote the other day. Because we him and I went to the Esquire restaurant of the whatever party. And uh and Dave and I together are really fun. Like we're really fun, right, Dave. And you sent me this quote that was like the problem with being fun.
+
+[17:16] What? Oh no, it was um someone was like, you don't want to be the life of the party with you never want to be the life of the party around people you work with or are your enemies. And I was like, oh yeah. Can't can't be fun around your enemies. No, definitely not.
+
+[17:34] And there's so many enemies. Gotta keep them guessing. So many enemies. Oh, out in these streets for sure. Oh my god.
+
+[17:40] New York. Hey, what's more two-faced stuff since you spent so much time in in both? LA or New York? Uh I don't know. I don't know.
+
+[17:52] I think it's about the people you surround yourself with. I really don't know. I don't know. It's a tough call, right? Because like we're famous for just being in your face telling you to to to go F yourself.
+
+[18:02] But you know, so you would assume LA, because you guys are famously vapid. But, you know, I feel like we also have a little bit of that. You know what I mean? They smile on your face. You've been through some stuff.
+
+[18:15] Yeah. You've been through some stuff. The the Chris the uh Ralph Lauren sweater comment that you made. No. So like listen.
+
+[18:25] Come on. Listen, a friend friend of mine is a she's a designer for Ralph Lauren, right? But not like Ralph Lauren, like high-end, like works directly with Ralph Lauren for Ralph Lauren collection. So like, and she does knitwear, right? So like super expensive.
+
+[18:39] Like a sweater, like I'm not even out of look at it costs so much money. You know what I mean? Like thousands and thousands of dollars. Miss Goosy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[18:45] But she was like, you know where the bread and butter is. I was like, the polo stuff. She's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But like these sweaters with like bears dressed up as like like they're going to some sort of fancy, like, like regatta. And I was like, what?
+
+[18:58] She's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. These things are so expensive and so like they're so fancy, like people are wearing this. I was like, come on, that's not a real thing. And then we're at this party. Guy's wearing one of these freaking things.
+
+[19:07] Outrageous. And I was like, Stas, look at the guy wearing the freaky sweater. And then He said it really loud. I did not say it very loud. First of all, it was a crowded party.
+
+[19:16] How can I say anything softly? Nightmare. And she drug me to this party. I literally been like gluing together red hot pokers and like twisting little pieces of metal together and soldering. I show up looking more rumpled than this to this fancy Esquire, best people in the universe party or whatever it was.
+
+[19:29] Nightmare. Classic styles. Rocking your bear sweater. No, no, this guy rocking his bear sweater and me calling calling it out apparently. It's a it's a fine sweater.
+
+[19:44] I just don't understand. Is it? I don't know where the money. I don't know where the money goes. I mean, look, if you like your bear sweater, do it.
+
+[19:49] Do it. Um, um, okay, so while we're starting Rome, I thought I'd bring a little something. I last time I was in Rome was the worst trip possibly of my life because I had a kidney stone a couple of days beforehand, and the ER doctor was like, Yeah, sure, you can fly to Italy. I was like, okay. So I get on the plane, have an attack on the plane.
+
+[20:11] No. The lady next to me, thankfully, was some sort of doctor, so she's like massaging my back. I didn't even have Advil on the plane. So like I was just like shot. Like, like they scooped me into a cab.
+
+[20:24] I made it to my hotel. I literally just did my talk, smear miraculously, didn't have the pains during the talk. And then right at the end of the talk, during the questions and answered, like doubled over and they had to haul me out of there. So it was the worst trip ever. And well, you can tell me as a former Jersey girl, or maybe do you still identify?
+
+[20:41] Uh yeah. Yeah. Let's say yes. I was staying in the what do they call it? The Eurozone?
+
+[20:45] What do they call it? Yeah. Which is basically the New Jersey of Rome, right? I'll take it. Yeah.
+
+[20:50] Yeah. Yeah. So like I was staying there. So like my wife was before we knew that I was gonna have a uh, you know, a kidney stone. I was like, hey, why don't we spend a couple extra days?
+
+[20:59] Come to Rome. We haven't been to Rome together since like 1995, right? I was like, let's go to Rome, hang out. And then she looks where you're staying. She's like, You're staying in New Jersey.
+
+[21:07] No way. I'm like, okay. Yeah. She's not wrong, right? I mean, yeah, it wouldn't be my first choice for like a romance.
+
+[21:15] What about your second destination? What about your fifth choice? No. No. Although it's not even in the top ten.
+
+[21:20] I do like in the book how you called out Ostia Antica, where I did go on my honeymoon, but I wish I had had your eyes back in 1995 to look at it as a food production and transport hub. It's fascinating. So I gotta go back. Yeah. I can take you there.
+
+[21:36] It's super, super cool. Does it look different than it did in 95? Did they build it up at all? There are a couple new excavations, but it will fundamentally look the same as it did ago. I had the first ever like uh pizza with potato on it in Ostia Antica, like, you know, right af uh after I got off the bus in 95.
+
+[21:54] I was like, This seems weird. I was like, this is delicious. It is quite delicious. Yeah, with the rosemary. I'll tell you what though, like this is something that like Sullivan, you know, lay uh Leahy, who come on, like he kind of popularized that in New York.
+
+[22:08] When I had it, I was like, Oh yeah, I had this delicious. Yeah. I mean, he at about that time in the mid-90s, he would have been at Antico Fournero uh no, not Antico Fournero Sholi, he's at Fourno Combo di Fiore, stodging and absorbing all the carb positivity. Yeah, yeah. The Bianca is a good product.
+
+[22:24] So good. Really is a good product. Yeah. So, anyways, so I had a nightmare when I was there, and it was for the Roman bar show. But this guy who uh is in Tivoli, which is a place where everyone should go visit it to visit the uh either the the weird like spring that feeds the entire area or the uh the Villa d'Este, which was the uh Cardinal Ippolito d'Este's uh place, which is one of the greatest Italian Renaissance gardens in all in all of history.
+
+[22:50] Uh but these guys make a quina, uh, you know, like uh, which is a quinited, quininated amaro. And he gave me a bottle. He mailed me a bottle, and he then he asked him, What do you think about it? I was like, I I think it's fine. I like it, but I can't help you because you don't have New York City distribution.
+
+[23:09] So we're having um and they used to make it in the 1800s and they stopped and they restarted again. Ricardi, Kina Ricardi out of Tivoli. So if anyone who's in Italy can get Kina Riccardi, and it is an old, like 1880, I want to say. Okay, you know you're not supposed to touch plastics. We have to touch knuckles.
+
+[23:31] Uh all right. All right. You almost give us both your lines. You're so lucky that my knuckles aren't made of plastic. But they also make a low sugar version because that's what everyone does now.
+
+[23:41] This is their standard. It's nice. It's delicious. It's also made in uh Sora in Frosinone. So it's based in Tivoli, and maybe they developed the recipe there, but it's from the deep south of Lazio, which is very, very rugged and delicious.
+
+[23:53] Oh, nice. Fantastic. Yeah, so like their uh what's it called? Their pharmacy is uh, you know, whatever you call a pharmacy, their pharmacia, right? Fadmacia.
+
+[24:01] Pharmacia, yeah, uh is there. So anyway, so I thought I'd share it with you, seeing as how you can actually maybe deal with this guy. He's a nice fellow. Beautiful. And also their like sort of logo looks like Leonardo da Vinci, like about to crack open a bottle of quinaricarted.
+
+[24:14] I mean, if you came back to life in the late 1800s, he would drink this. I'll tell you what, this place is just him and the brother. It's just him and the brother. Love it. Uh so uh that's the only Roman stuff I have for you.
+
+[24:26] Thank you for sharing this with me. It's a delight. You're quite welcome. Uh all right. So uh Quinn, you're just gonna chime in whenever you uh whenever you have whatever, right?
+
+[24:33] All right. Um, is this pig question for Katie or no? Or is it just it just says that there? Well, it was under I thought it was relevant. Uh yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[24:44] It's Porquetta, porchetta, because there is a Porchetta recipe in here. Uh and you say to watch out for the Porquetta because most of it is bunk, maybe crap meat in the right place. They cook it in the right place, but they use bunk meat. Well, yeah, uh Porquetta Diariccia is an IGP, so the production has to happen in the suburbs of Rome, but the meat can come from any number of places. Yeah.
+
+[25:08] Which doesn't necessarily mean that it's bad, but often the large industrial porchetta producers are not sourcing very good meat. So there are some places that are actually outside the IGP or don't want to be associated with the IGP that make really exceptional porqueta. They might just do like two a day, one a day. My spot is Norcinaria Berenbey in uh Marino, which is near Aricha, close enough. Close enough.
+
+[25:32] Close enough. And you can get there on the train and uh Vitalino Bernabé has this like uh crazy leather like arm glove that he uses when he pulls the the twine to like bind it shut. It's like very, very beautiful and like amazing. Well, like an oh like a a well-used glove. Yeah, he looks like he's going to weld something and not make a porchetta.
+
+[25:56] It's fantastic. All right. Probably. I mean, how do you clean that sucker? Not my business.
+
+[26:03] Okay. So the question from Dr. Smokehouse, and with a name like Dr. Smokehouse, I'm sure they know general metastrophe situations, right? But I currently have a whole boned-out 100-pound pig with the head on that I froze.
+
+[26:19] Imagine having a imagine living in a place where I could freeze a hundred-pound pig. Although a hundred pounds situation, though. 100-pound pig, I'm holding on my hands. You can't see me because this is a radio show, but like uh it's like that. You know what I mean?
+
+[26:32] Um by the way, before we finish this question, so much baby lamb in here, but not the way so like in these states, my stepfather's father and his father before him, and his father and father and father and father were all butchers, starting out of south of Italy, but then going to Boston, and one of their their they were lamb butchers was their specialty. And they used to slaughter their own lambs. So at Easter, he would get, but it was always the whole baby lamb. Like tiny. Yeah.
+
+[26:59] You know what I mean? And we they would always just be like very simple, like roast it out and serve with the with the stuff. But um, I'm shocked at the l level of baby lamb that they get in Rome. We are obsessed with the bacchio, which is the suckling lamb, the kind of veal quality. Yeah, and there's like a million, there are two million recipes actually for baby lamb in there.
+
+[27:17] Yeah. If you gave Papa with that, you know, we his name was Arcangelo Adonisio. You know what I mean? Obsessed. Yeah.
+
+[27:23] So like he went by Addy though. He no one called him Arcangelo unless they were mad at him, I guess. But anyway, so he uh you would hand him like what an American would call a baby lamb, and he's like, It's pink, what is this? Get this out of here. Yep.
+
+[27:37] Get it out. You know what I mean? Anyway. Uh Dr. Smokehouse says, I have a 100-pound pig with the head on that I froze to do a whole pig porchetta for a wedding this spring.
+
+[27:48] Would you recommend thawing, uh thawing in and keeping in a brine or thawing, then salting? It would be stuffed with a sausage and then sewn up to cook. Well, okay. That is uh beyond my purview. That's also not porchetta.
+
+[28:03] Hey, man. So the way that I would do it, first of all, I would practice before like throwing this on a wedding case. I understand that. I acknowledge that, but this is my advice. You can't just do it like once and think like this is gonna be flawless and perfect and I can serve this to a wedding.
+
+[28:20] That's a huge investment in meat. So I understand you can't do it multiple times. But I don't brine, I salt. Uh I would this is honestly like how I would do it. I would go talk to my butcher and be like, with this, with these dimensions, like what temperature and what uh duration should I be cooking?
+
+[28:40] Yeah. Because I have tested recipes. The recipes in all my books are tested multiple times. They are more or less foolproof, but I've never done the whole pig. And it's too much responsibility.
+
+[28:51] I'm sorry, Mr. Let me ask you a s a separate question about ovens. No one in the world likes the British gas mark unit, right? But Italian ovens have what? Just temperatures?
+
+[29:01] Mm-hmm. All right. So is is an Italian home oven pretty much like an American home oven? Uh yeah, I mean, at this point, pretty much. And a lot of the brands are the same as well.
+
+[29:10] But the great uh Vito Bernabé who I referenced earlier, he's using like a combi oven to do his porchetta. That's not the standard. Right. Um a lot of people are also using like a wood-fired oven, but like badly. What a pain in the butt.
+
+[29:25] Pain in the butt. It's impossible. So uh smokehouse, doctor, here's uh here's some things I'm gonna say. And this, you know, we'll talk more about this in the second half of the doubleheader when I talk more about T2. But one of the things you can do to mitigate the fact that you're trying to cook a whole pig and the muscles don't all want to cook the same way, is you can selectively brine inject just the loins and any any large muscle groups that you know are gonna overcook before the long cooking muscles get done.
+
+[29:57] That's what I do with turkeys. So with turkey, what I'll do is uh like when I make the stock, I'll take the turkey fat off the top of my stock along with some stock. Then I'll emulsify that mix, salt and sugar that mix, and then inject that into the muscles in Turkey's case, breast, that are gonna get overcooked and nasty. And the rest I'll just do exterior salting on. But anyway.
+
+[30:21] Smart. An idea. Yeah. I mean, no one in Italy does anything like that with porchetta, which is why when you usually order porchetta, the loin tastes like chalk and sawdust. It's a good uh, yeah.
+
+[30:34] My son uh booker always says that things taste like cardboard and paint, but it's a reference to Dennis Amenis, you know, one of the later Walter Mathow films. Um Quinn, tell me when you got your crap done or Stas. Oh, yeah, I I've tasted it. All right, Quinn. I don't know if you caught this, whether you're able to read the whole book or not.
+
+[30:55] But you and Katie share a similar dislike. I believe it was you. You guys both share a least favorite pasta shape. Uh oh, yeah, but it shouldn't exist. Now you incur by the way, this uh this Amaro has like some iron in the back, right?
+
+[31:16] A little bit of a little ferro, not a lot. A little bloody. Yeah. Um you say fight me. So I mean, let's fight.
+
+[31:22] What do you hate about it? Um, well, uh, let's start with the fact that for me, a properly cooked pasta is extremely al dente, what we would call al chiodo. And when you cook bucottini, if you're cooking it, even just al dente, it's already uh if it's al dente, it's it's not easily twirllable on your fork. And if it's twirlable, it's already overcooked. Well, yeah, it's a you can't twirl it.
+
+[31:46] It's a pipeline. It's a pipe. So it's a texture thing. I mean, it's also like, I mean, I'm I'm not mad at modern shapes, but it's a modern shape developed to cook more quickly. Uh it did really well in restaurants in like the 80s and 90s, but it's pretty much been, I would say phased out of many very delicious tratturier that I recommend in the book, places I go every day, replaced with another tubular shape, but a perfect one, mezzemaniche or rigatoni.
+
+[32:16] So and then so like like what are all the give me, give me all the tube lengths. Is ditalini the shortest tube? Yeah, like ditali di talini. This is difficult because each uh of the pasta companies, like in and around Grannano and the other dried pasta companies, they have different like language for the shapes. So it might change from region to region.
+
+[32:37] But ditali di tellini, di talini, uh, and then there's mezzemaniche, regatoni. I mean, th they're not ridged, but candele are the ones that are like three feet long, and you have to break those in order to cook them. Might have missed some in there. What's missing? Here's my least favorite pasta shape.
+
+[32:55] Tell me. And it's no one has it. I bought it and I feel stupid for it. I might have mentioned this on air. Dried peachy.
+
+[33:02] Oh, yeah, okay. Terrible. Yeah. It's theoretically 22 minutes to cook. The outside's paste, but you know, before the inside is even like close to, you know what I mean?
+
+[33:11] It's like it's not not worth it. It's nothing, nothing good to say about it. I think those are just sold. Like there's not a lot of demand for that per se. So they're small batches that are not dried properly.
+
+[33:22] Um spent or something go-I mean, that you would hope that would make a delicious. Dried peachy, but you know, the only thing do. The only reason I bought it was I'm scanning the aisle, I look at it, it says 22 minutes. I was like, you're stupid. There's no pasta that takes 22 minutes to cook.
+
+[33:38] You know what I mean? In boiling water. Right. Sounds like I bodice. Yeah.
+
+[33:42] I mean, just out of curiosity. And I regret it. Yeah. Hard. Yeah, me too.
+
+[33:48] Uh all right. So another things I can't let go. So here's some FOMO for uh for you folks like me who don't get to Rome very often. So is uh is this a hard J in the uh in the intestine or not? Pallata.
+
+[34:01] Pallata, okay, soft J. So talk about this. And by the way, for those of you who I guess only live in Rome because you can't get anywhere else. To follow this recipe, you need to remove the fat from the outside of the intestine that has the congealed milk on the inside of it, and then use strips of fat. Don't throw it away.
+
+[34:20] Because you gotta use those strips of fat to tie these suckers into rings, one of which you then break. But oh, the whole thing maybe be like, well, I'm definitely gonna get someone else to make it for me, for sure. Yeah, most people aren't doing that process, but instead going to butchers that are preparing it often like live. It's part of the like the sales pitch, right? Like, look at me making this beautiful payata ring.
+
+[34:39] And you buy them already made, and you tell the butcher how many people you're having over to have payatta with regatoni, and then you cook the intestines of milk-fed veal, which in Roman diet is payatta in a tomato sauce. And then many people also choose to break one open at the end of cooking to kind of stain the tomato sauce with a little bit of this sweetly lactic, almost ricotta-like substance. Is it is it good, the clotted milk? Like, is it yeah? Look, it depends on like the age of the la uh of the of the veal.
+
+[35:09] The super super baby ones, it's like it's sweet. And the intestines are very almost pencil thin. As they get a little bit older, it can get a little bit more of a gamey flavor, but it's still like round, lactic, recall, like kind of a tangy recall to like a sheep's recotta flavor, even if it's veal. And do you prefer more pencil or more pinky? I like I like the thicker one that almost is the same diameter as rigatoni.
+
+[35:36] Um and then for the pencil thin ones, I love to do that like on the flat top, just like toss a little bit of seasoning without doing the whole rigmarole of tying it into rings. You just gotta take like the whole tangled bunch, throw it on the uh the the uh piastra, and a couple minutes and you're done. Like does it break when you flip it or do you not flip it? Very gently. You've got to be really gentle with it.
+
+[35:58] Hey, listen, why do I always break? Uh you're gonna be uh you're probably gonna be about the language, but the ravioli, raviola. Well, how I don't always break how are you supposed to sauce those things without breaking them? You get them out of the water perfectly and then you break them. Well, how are you talking or how are you incorporating swirl?
+
+[36:13] You gotta swirl. I'm like doing it like a gorilla. No gorilla movements. They're delicate. And I mean, especially if they're made by hand, they could be uh like thicker at some parts than others, susceptible to breaking.
+
+[36:24] You put them in a pan with the warm sauce or even over the heat, and then you just gently swirl. And you gotta be really, really delicate. That's the only way to do it. I hate when I break them too. You can also not eat ravioli, just like it's spaghetti, which is tied with spaghetti as my favorite shape.
+
+[36:40] Okay. All right. Uh all right. Oh, another thing. You do cook coffee and you mention I'm not gonna pr I'm gonna mispronounce it, cafe Sunstacchio, but like Nailed it.
+
+[36:51] All right. I went there once, again, in like, I don't know, 1999, 2000, maybe 20005. And I went there and I was like, what is it with these people? First of all, I don't put milk in my coffee. And they want me to put milk because they want to do their little hidden thing behind their little hidden thing.
+
+[37:04] What are they doing behind that hidden hidey hole that they don't let you see what they're doing with the coffee? Nothing, right? Well, they're just taking the this is my theory and that shared by others. The like the first little cremino, like the little frothy milky part that comes out of the machine first, like whipping that with sugar, um, and then putting it into the coffee. Um it's not my favorite coffee, but it is a relic.
+
+[37:26] It's a ritual. And it's a place that I think if you want to understand the sort of mass marketing of coffee in Italy, you have to go there because like so many coffee shops, it opened in 1938, which is this critical time during the fascist year that coffee starts to be democratized. Before that it was a luxury good. Yeah. And they uh they're also famously wood fired, right?
+
+[37:49] Another thing you maybe shouldn't fire with wood is your coffee roasting, right? So maybe. It depends. Isn't that them though? Aren't they the wood one of the wood fire?
+
+[37:58] Like they do have a wood-fired, like hand calibrated machine in the back, but the volume that they do means that maybe some of it is roasted that way. But I don't know what the other processes are. But there's um Torah faction called uh Torifazzino Jamaica, and that is uh wood roasted by Johnny Frozzi in Verona. And you like it? No, I love it.
+
+[38:18] Strong. Uh all right. Oh, one other question. How often do you have pizza in New York City? Ever?
+
+[38:25] I get tricked all the time into eating Italian things. Well, the qu the reason is is that like I didn't realize that Rome had a cracker crust situation. We have so many pizza varieties. There's like 12 pizza recipes in here, and they'll they'll all surprise you. So the the Gruppo slash whatever, that group that's down here, I forget the other names of them, right?
+
+[38:44] But they're like lower Manhattan cracker crust pizza. Is that similar to the Roman style? So for those people who are in New York, have you ever had their pizza? I haven't, but uh so the last time I had like a cracker crust pizza that was in really a Roman style, it was at Marta, but that's I believe long since close. Is that possible?
+
+[39:03] Yeah, probably. Uh but in any event, it's like they would sheet the um the dough, like run it through a sheeter to make it really thin in Rome. Some people do that, some people use a rolling pin. But to my knowledge, I don't know if there are other Roman style pizzerias in town that do that. Yeah, and Styas, get this.
+
+[39:20] There's not like one, not two, like four pictures of Rosso pizzas. Not this I don't know. My my favorite food. Oh my god, you're one of them? Yeah.
+
+[39:30] Oh my God. Back when uh come at me. So it's just like, come on. Come on. If we're like, oh, it shows what they can really do because you can't hide.
+
+[39:39] Could you just show us you can do that? I don't believe that. I that's not my thesis. All right. I think that like Bonchi's sheet pan pizza rosa, which is probably like two to one tomato olive oil, is incredibly delicious and satisfying and savory with a little bit of sweetness.
+
+[39:56] I think a lot of pizzeros in Rome, it's disgusting. But if you've ever can you just come to Rome and I'll change your mind? I would love to come to Rome. You you could just go to even one place, Pannifica Bonchi. You can get the sheet panel.
+
+[40:12] They will not come. See this? Well, I'll I'll go and I'll think of you as I'm biting into these pizzeros. But the sheet pan one at Pani Future Bonci is amazing. There's the the long, like oily one that they call the tongue.
+
+[40:24] Uh and then you have that in here, but that one's looks more done, right? Yes. I mean, they're different, they're different doughs, different hydrations. Uh, the lingua has um oil in the dough, and the pizza in telia tends to not have oil in the dough. And then the like puff pastry pizza terosse, which are they're they're like the perfect snack.
+
+[40:45] Uh, and the like pastiness of the tomato sauce, I really like that because it's like a 20-minute bake rather than like the faster one for uh the other stuff. Here's the problem I have theoretically with the puff pastry pizza with the thing in. I'm imagining you ever go to an event and the puff pastry was cooked so long ago, and you pick it up and it's just dry, and you're trying to have a conversation, and you can't get to the bar to get a glass of wine, and this thing is just shattering in your hand and it's just dry. Yeah, but it's not like that. No.
+
+[41:16] Okay. And you have to trust you. Please. Oh my god, get this. I had an argument.
+
+[41:21] I was having an argument with uh this friend of mine, Guido, who's he's you know, Calabrian, but spends a lot of time in Naples, right? And I was like, you know what? Neopalm pizza's not my favorite pizza. I'm not saying it's so wet. Yeah.
+
+[41:35] You know, like 20 seconds after it comes out of the oven, it flops down. You know what I mean? And so the tip sag, no one wants that. No, for him, he's like, it's the only style of pizza. I was like, Guido.
+
+[41:44] It's ridiculous. I was like, Guido. Guido's mistaken. Yeah. So I was like, you know, and but then he he did the same thing you just did to me and Nastasi would do to me.
+
+[41:50] He's like, I told him I'd never been to Naples, and he was like, huh. And what do you mean? He's like, well, yeah, what do you know? I was like, uh, fair. I mean, look, if you if you go to Naples, most of the pizza's gonna disappoint you, honestly.
+
+[42:03] It's gonna be wet and floppy and uh and cook too fast at a temperature that's too high. But uh there are a couple of places that do a longer bake and are serving 60 pizzas a day at lunch and not four hundred. Right. So every pizza takes heat off the deck. That's gonna affect also the outcome too.
+
+[42:21] Yeah, you do say in your in your pizza recipes, give your stone time to recover. You gotta. Yeah. Or your your steel. But you know, it's true, it's like, but just the physics of Neapolitan pizza, I'm never like, oh yeah, that's the way I want my pizza made.
+
+[42:33] You know what I'm saying? Well, it's really evolved in the past few decades to become a food that has kind of almost mass production behind it. Yeah. And is eaten on a plate. It never was eaten on a plate before.
+
+[42:44] So the whole like the evaporation of the moisture, which also doesn't help that floppy texture. Yeah, and the cult of it I also don't like. Yeah. I mean, I could live without it. Yeah.
+
+[42:55] All right. I will talk to well, and you've had it. Oh, I take I go to Naples at least once a week. Really? Yeah.
+
+[43:03] How fast is the train from Rome to Italy? One hour and ten minutes. That's nice. It's amazing. Never been south of Rome in Italy.
+
+[43:08] Excuse me? I know. Unacceptable. I know. I gotta go to also I gotta go to the town that uh the Adenesios are from, but that's even further south in Naples.
+
+[43:18] But anyway, whatever. Someday. Nastasi's like, you'll never do it. You'll you'll die first. Yeah.
+
+[43:24] That's true. It's true. Uh all right. Oh, another thing I noticed is that when I was growing up as a uh, you know, in my twenties or whatever, culinarily growing up. I was full grown by then.
+
+[43:37] But anyway, um Italian writers spent all of their time telling you not to use bacon to use pancetta instead. And all of these recipes are guancially for it, and pancetta is like the maybe you can substitute it. So my question is is that something that's actually changed in Italy or was it always that way? It's absolutely changed. Guanciale, especially in Rome, guanciale is touted as the only acceptable um cured pork product that is permitted in carbonara, greccia, machichana, et cetera.
+
+[44:08] But when you look at recipes, even from 20 years ago, much less 70 years ago, they're using bacon, literal bacon. America, baby. Well, that's because you say Americans came in during, you know, after the war and you know, did their American thing. Also, bacon was like a thing that people had. Um, and pancetta was also something that people had, and guanchali was something that fewer people had because it's just less of the pig.
+
+[44:33] Um, but there's been this codification of recipes, especially in the past two or three decades, where we're now told this recipe is made with X, Y, and Z and these techniques, and there never were any variations, and the documents don't demonstrate that. Is less of the pig gonna be your flexitarian restaurant? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[44:51] Yeah. I don't know that the Italians would buy into that. Um sounds like a flop. Yeah. Well, also you mentioned uh Gricia, which you you shout out as being the thing that you were trying to popularize over there.
+
+[45:02] Now, here's my question. So for those of you that don't know what it is, and that would be me until I read the book, right? Fundamentally, flavors of Caccio Pepe with guanciale in it, flavors of it. I would say I would say like I would go more the carbonara minus the egg situation because of the texture. All right.
+
+[45:20] Yeah, because you know it's entirely different. So you want it, so interestingly, it's gonna ask it's a very different way of making this than making the cachua pepe. You want it completely. So you're we should see Cachoe Pepe as a totally different being, even if it does have pecorino and black pepper. So why don't you get into it?
+
+[45:36] So tell us about this cold water McGilla and like the Cachoe Pepe and like you and then uh Nastasia. Did you do you guys did one of those too, right? But you're not you're you're never willing to say what your techniques were secret. For the cachoe pepe, no. That was I use Mark's recipe.
+
+[45:51] Yeah. All right. Well, Katie, you want to say what the the shtick is here, the magic? Yeah. So two of my favorite cachoe pepe recipes uh are made with a cold base to begin with.
+
+[46:02] And so uh in the kitchen, the chefs will mix pecorino romano and cold water and black pepper and have a paste nearby so that when they get an order in, they start mixing the paste with the cooked pasta, adding a little bit of not hot pasta water, warm pasta water to thin it if needed. That way the pecorino romano and some of the parmigiano regata that the chefs put in it now don't break. And you say the worst thing you can do is just add it, add it the way that people say with the hot water and bust it up. Yeah. All right.
+
+[46:33] Um, and then uh at Cesare El Casaletto, uh Leonardo Vignoli makes uh makes it in the in a hot pan with ice cubes and keeps everything really cool and then adds the pasta. And so you get like a tepid pasta on your table. Yeah, I don't know about that. I do like it. Do you like it?
+
+[46:51] Yeah. It's juicy. It's juicy, and it's not that kind of like dry, tight cachoe pepe that some people like. I like both of them. What's that lunatic Italian who puts ice cubes on his pizza?
+
+[47:02] And what's it? Oh, that's Stefano Caligari, and he's he does that for his cacho e pepe pizza. And I'll tell you why. All right. Because he puts the cacho e pepe, so the pecorino romano and black pepper on the pot on the blind baked crust.
+
+[47:15] Right. Uh after the bake. And so he needs like a wet but cooked center of his pizza for everything to stick to. And it's a really thick layer of cacho e pepe, but it's like a dry mixture of those things and it works. It's impossible for one person to eat more than two slices.
+
+[47:32] And what does the ice cube do for it? The ice cube goes on um the raw dough and then when he launches the pizza in the oven the ice cubes like melt and then the water evaporates but leaves a s a a kind of tacky surface. Oh and keeps it totally blonde? Mm-hmm. Huh that's some weird stuff.
+
+[47:48] It's not the worst. Okay. I l that's it's pretty good. Not the not the No no it's it's very good. It's just one of those, it's kind of like a novelty pizza in the sense you can't just like eat one by yourself.
+
+[47:58] Right. Wiley showed me this he's like look at this guy with his ice cubes in the oven I'm like gimmick. Gimmick that's what I said to him, but I don't know, maybe not. I mean it's it's kind of brilliant because this guy Stefano Caligari was always very is always cleverly kind of moving Roman cuisine along rather than trapping it in amber. So he's also the guy who invented the Trapecino pizza pocket.
+
+[48:20] Which is strange. That's so strange. 2008? Yeah. That didn't exist before 2008?
+
+[48:24] Nope. Huh. Yeah. You would have bread and you would have m meatball or chicken gatchatory or whatever and they never met each other. They were in two separate parts of your plate.
+
+[48:33] All right. But he joined them together. Speaking of new things that seem old uh how do you pronounce pizza right the oblong thing. You say that they call it ancient bread but really it was invented like last week. 2001.
+
+[48:43] Yeah yeah in prati near the Vatican to me that's last week. Absolutely but it's it's amazing because um you can say anything you want about when your business was founded or who created something and nobody will fact check you. For those of you that don't know right now we're in the like middle end section of the book. We're in the breads and pizza section of the book. So the way this book works is it starts with a history of Roman of Rome, but like with an eye to food and food production.
+
+[49:09] Then goes into starts with uh starters and so many fried foods. Oh, we love a fritto. And then works its way through two breads and then desserts and then drinks. Is this accurate? Accurate.
+
+[49:22] Okay. Um what about the piedina? Piadina's from Romagna. It sounds like Rome, I know. So that's from the eastern northeastern part of the country.
+
+[49:32] Back to this pizza. Rice flour and soy flour. What does that do to the dough? So uh on a molecular level, I'm not qualified to answer that, but from a marketing level, we are told it renders the dough molto digeribile, molto digeribile, very digestible. Speaking Italians because it doesn't uh cultivate gluten.
+
+[49:55] Yeah. Oh, oh, my Hey Stas. What are the two what are the things that Italians always talk about? Eating and pooping. Actually, or not pooping.
+
+[50:06] Constipation is the number two most popular topic. It's a problem. I mean, is it though? Not pooping, major problem. Especially if you're traveling in Italy.
+
+[50:17] No one's gonna give you the fiber that they eat when they're at home. Traveling always stops up the system, unless you go to the wrong places, in which case it loosens it way up. Fair, fair, fair. You know what I mean? It's because you're on the freaking plane.
+
+[50:29] You're sitting for too long. You can't get up and move around. I don't think it's the food. I think it's that you're sitting like a lump in a in a in a seat and it's just ruining the floor. Have you ever had an Italian?
+
+[50:38] Have you ever had an Italian ask you if they can give you an enema? Many times. Wow. And not just my grandmother. Is this real?
+
+[50:47] Right, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because everyone's always checking in with their like your GI and like, oh, did you poop today? And I go see my boyfriend's family. You know, people are very aware of my rhythms, and people will be like, well, let's get you an enema.
+
+[50:59] Oh my God. I'm like, I'm good. I just need vegetables. Can we have a salad? If I do see you in Rome, please don't take me to your enema friends.
+
+[51:08] No, that you're safe. But I will take you to eat some veggies. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Veggies I like. Oh, speaking of which, you know what?
+
+[51:13] I've never been in the in the sweet spot for the artichokes to Rome. And Siri, that's the most FOMO of all of the Roman things is the cartofi alla diuda. It's most FOMO I've ever had. And you have this picture of this upright hyper crisp looking. You have a Roman one later that's like braised with some with some of that.
+
+[51:32] What's the name of the of the pentuccia? Yeah, yeah, that they're mint relative there. And I'm like, okay, fine. This looks like something I could have, but the cartofi alla judo. I'm like, ah.
+
+[51:40] It's great. Is it though? Yeah. I mean, look, if it's properly pruned, it's great, right? You've got to clear off all the potentially fibrous uh sharp bits and then poach it in oil until it's cooked all the way through.
+
+[51:51] Yeah. Nice and tender. Almost like a fry. Yeah, and then you fry it in hotter oil. Yeah.
+
+[51:55] And it's great. But it's um, it's like a December through March-April season. The thing is, there's so much demand for car trofe that you can find them year-round. They're just not always the same sort of nutty flavor of the local Roman variety, because they're coming from Brittany or Puglia. I don't want that.
+
+[52:11] I want the real. I understand. All right. Uh here's another question, because there's a lot of history in this book, right? 70 pages.
+
+[52:19] Yeah. So here's a question I always ask, and I probably asked you the last time you were on, but let's see whether like writing this whole history section is like uh, you know, fluffed out your uh concept of it. Is the reason that no one because there are American dishes that have seafood and a bunch of cheese. Look at shrimp and grits, which is a brick in your stomach, but delicious, right? No cheese in any of the seafood stuff.
+
+[52:40] It's gotta be Lent fast stuff, right? That's gotta be white. There's tons of cheese in the seafood dishes. I mean, the most famous fritto is fiori di zucca, and that's mozzarella with anchovy. Because most of the pasta dishes that anyway we grew up with is Italian American folks, like the fish pastas don't have any sort of but you're saying in the real life in Italy, it's like fine.
+
+[53:01] In real life in Italy, like if you attempt to put Parmigiano Reggiano and spaghetti with clams, somebody will slap you. But if you serve pasta with shrimp and pecorino in Sardegna, everyone eats it like that. All over Italy there are exceptions to this rule. It's just like Parmigiano and clams. That's a no-go for everybody nationwide.
+
+[53:22] Although I have had a clam pizza with Parmogano and in New Haven, it's the perfect food. Yeah. I concur. But don't tell any of my Italian friends or family that I said that. I will not.
+
+[53:33] Speaking of things that sound like horror shows, talk to me about rice salad with hot dog uh hot dog pieces and canned corn. So insalate di riso is one of the things that we make when it's so so super hot, which is like now five months a year. So you make you like r rinse a bunch of rice and then you boil it and mix it with canned corn, uh, those like um sliced black olives, uh oil-packed tinned tuna, cubes of emmenthal, and hot dog rounds, and also uh mixed pickled vegetables. And a tube of mayonnaise if you're feeling fancy. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[54:10] I like your mayonnaise comes in tubes. Weird. Yeah, I l uh uh I'm into it. But you said you're there for this salad. Yeah.
+
+[54:15] I like it. And every bar, so like the barra or cafe of Rome has also become a place where people go for lunch now because all of the labor reforms took away a lot of benefits, like the meal tickets people would get as part of the work contract. And so people with five, ten euros can go and get a rice salad, feels really summery. And everyone in Italy eats so many versatile, cut into little rounds, even on their pizzas. So it sounds maybe shocking, but it's pretty ubiquitous.
+
+[54:44] Hmm. All right. Oh, speaking of salad, mayonnaise, tubes, no mayonnaise in your uh Tonello sauce, huh? In your in your No, it's an old school one, so it doesn't use it. Why is it Tonello sauce, but it's Viltonato?
+
+[54:59] So no, it's uh salsa tonata. Oh yeah, all right, yeah. Uh you don't like mayonnaise? I mean, uh yours is egg yolks, anchovies, tuna. What am I missing?
+
+[55:13] Oh whole eggs. You use whole eggs. Yeah. And maybe are there capers in it? Probably.
+
+[55:18] It's delicious. For those of you who never had cold veal and like tuna sauce, it is good. Yeah. It is good. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[55:26] It tastes delicious. And it's if listeners are like, Katie Parla, that's from Piedmont. Yeah, no duh. But it's been fully adopted by Romans who were conquered by the Piemontese and had at least some of their culinary inspiration imparted. Say cheesecake with an Italian the way in Italian says it.
+
+[55:42] Just gag. Give me one more time. Just gig. Yeah, I like that a lot. But now, uh the one that you give the recipe for, which has the full crust on it, because theoretically Jews were not allowed to serve dairy to Catholics, so they hit it with a crust and it's like an upside down cheesecake.
+
+[55:58] Yeah, it I mean, that's the lore, but in fact, the papal bulls that established the ghetto and regulated Jewish economic life don't actually say so. Oh. But that's the lore anyway. And we know that there is a lot of stuff passed down that has a kernel of truth. Well, but doesn't have documentary evidence to support it.
+
+[56:16] If you read the introduction to Katie Parla's book, Rome, you will find that the Romans are famously liars. Absolutely. And we love this about about them. But it's Yeah, it's it's all about telling a story, and sometimes there's a little bit of truth to it, but usually it's uh it's to do marketing. All right, and so this is a an actual recipe, Joe, so I think we can say it on air.
+
+[56:40] Dick cake. Mm-hmm. Talk to me about dick cake. So uh in formal Italian, this celebratory cake is called uh pizza ebraica, Jewish pizza, and it was used for celebrating a briss, and so got a fun and flirty nickname. Yeah.
+
+[56:58] If however you order pizza di beride in the kosher bakeries, people give you really, really mean glances because they're like, you're not really supposed to say that. Oh but it is the it is the name. It is it is the name. It's like scan people are scandalized by it, but it also is the name. I see.
+
+[57:13] Delicious or not delicious? It tastes great. It's like the original power bar, and it's got pine nuts, raisins, candied fruits, almonds, uh, egg, oil, and flour, and it's very dense and very caloric. And was to celebrate the birth of a baby boy, and the one at Bochone is amazing. And that's uh Is that that's six generations bakery in uh the former Correct in the former Jewish ghetto.
+
+[57:36] Yeah. Uh and they will never ever give up their recipe. And so I have a disclaimer, this recipe is not their recipe. How close is it? It's like, you know, we're six sixty percent of the way there, but no one's cracked it, and no one ever will.
+
+[57:51] No one ever will. Uh all right. Now, speaking of dense fruit magillas, uh, at the end, so here's a product, Cianese product, right? Which I two minutes. C and E's product, which I like.
+
+[58:05] I don't love it though. Panforte. Don't love it. It's gross. Okay.
+
+[58:08] So the one that I that was most Panforte like in the book is this Pangialo. Is it similar or no? Very similar, but like the giallo, the yellow part is from Saffron. And is it better? It's the same.
+
+[58:18] It tastes the same. This is why, see, I want everyone to know when you read a cookbook, and a recipe is included because it has to be, but at the end, the person says, serves six to eight people for a hundred years. What that means is no one's gonna want to eat that much of it. But it is traditional. Am I reading this right?
+
+[58:35] Yeah, I mean, I had to put it in there because uh forno Angelo Colapicani is a really important place to document and uh Yeah, but nobody And no one's gonna make it. All right, uh okay, I have a minute 14. All right, here we go. Ready? So uh the Rosetta, which is you which is a like a flower-shaped puffy roll, right?
+
+[58:54] You say it references like the Kaiser and these other stamp things that came in in the 1800s, but does it possible? Right, but does it also reference the old Rome like Roman Pompeii like way that the Roman like Roman Romans, whatever you want to call them, Republic Romans, used to make their flower-shaped breads. Is it also referencing that or no? So those were like the ones that are perforated so you can pull parts off. Yeah, bigger.
+
+[59:15] They're bigger. Possible, but like people weren't really reflecting on things like that in the 1950s when they started developing sandwich buns. They were just like, how can we get something that's that looks pretty to attract people? All right. And and uh one last thing I noticed, here's here's a a thing I came up with.
+
+[59:31] So uh this guy pizza place in Raza, his name's out of my head. Dan Richer. There you go. I read his book and he's I wrote that with him. Really?
+
+[59:38] Yeah. Love it. So the auto lies. Great. This makes a lot of sense.
+
+[59:42] So you put the salt in after the auto lies. You mix by hand. So they but here's my new tip. Because sometimes it's hard to get the salt in. I blitz the salt in a blender or a spice grinder and get it into a powder and the salt goes in really easily super easily.
+
+[59:57] Game changer anyway. And I wrote did I already know you wrote that book? I don't know. Good book. Well well next time you come on maybe we'll have him on we'll do it the book the old book.
+
+[1:00:06] Anyway, Katie Parla, the book is Rome. Go pick it up if you want to know something about Roman food. Thanks for coming on again. Oh by the Kitchen Arts and Letters.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live in the new year from Rockefeller Center, New York City, New Stand Studios, joined only in the studio today with Joe Hazen rocking the panels. How you doing? Doing very well. Happy New Year.
+
+[0:23] Happy New Year. Happy New Year's treating you uh so far so good. It's been wonderful. We had such a lovely time. Thanks for asking.
+
+[0:29] How about you? Uh I guess we'll get into it. Yeah. Uh yeah, yeah. And uh we don't have John today.
+
+[0:37] He's in Connecticut, still uh still in Connecticut. I hopefully he'll be back next week. But we have our entire West Coast extended crew uh starting down there at the bottom with Nastasia De Hammer Lopez. How you doing? I'm good.
+
+[0:51] Yeah. And actually, technically, is uh is Jack Insley Jackie Molecules, is he above you or below you, like like geographically in Los Angeles? I don't know. Because is there anyone that actually geographically understands where everyone is in Los Angeles or no? Because I certainly don't.
+
+[1:11] Not me. Yeah. Well, anyway, we have Jackie Molecules here. How you doing? No.
+
+[1:16] Sick but great. Sick but great. And then all the way up and off on Vancouver Island, we got Quinn. How you doing? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[1:27] All right. So uh it's been uh it's been a couple of weeks. Oh, by the way, people who listened live on the Patreon to our uh historic cooking issues doubleheader heard actually uh an episode that we have not been able to put up live because it turns out the information is embargoed. So that's another benefit. Uh you Patreon people have that when we make a mistake and give you information that we're not supposed to, you get to listen to it.
+
+[1:53] Isn't that right, folks? Yeah, now we've all been uh neuralized, right is that which uh which show is that where they erase your race oh is that uh men in black yeah man black yeah yeah uh yeah I mean you know whatever man that's that's the thing like you know when you're doing a live show sometimes you do stuff you're not supposed to and you hear the the the bleeps just you know for reference right so you have to join the Patreon to to listen live but just for reference things like uh public figures have been threatened and we had to bleep them out uh you know historic uh argument things have been said that you know you're not allowed to hear but if it's live it's live we're not uh you know we don't have a sensor on the uh you know we're not on a tape delay I'm not uh who you know who got tape delayed on uh on uh Saturday live who was the famous tape delay person there's a there's a couple anyway if you are listening live uh on the Patreon call in your questions to 917 410 1507 that's uh 9174101507 uh the reason Joe I was saying that my new year's has been uh something is uh Booker my son uh after you know uh our lab died in March he's been pining for a cat he's wanted a cat basically since he was a small child and finally you know a majority of people who come over to the house have gotten their uh their injections so they could be around cats without inflating like you know like a like a pom-pom and so we're like fine you know what I mean we when in you know for Christmas birthday because his birthday is soon we'll we'll let you go adopt a cat. We adopt this six-month old cat. Nastasia feels me on this because she's a cat cat person, but got home, great. Instantly got violently ill.
+
+[3:39] Like, I honestly thought she was going to die. And it's just the vet bills, like they get insane really, really, really quickly. So we spent most of our new years uh force feeding a cat. Anyway, she seems to be on the men. So uh all's well that ends well.
+
+[3:56] Is that how it works, Show? No. How about this? How about all's well that ends? Uh so uh what do you guys have since uh since the holidays?
+
+[4:12] It's been it's been a long time. Any uh food food catastrophes, any uh food triumphs, uh any you know anything anything? What do you got? I got a quick one for you. So so uh girlfriend and I drove across the country because my dad had to clear a storage unit and all my stuff was in there, so I had to they wouldn't yeah, it was terrible.
+
+[4:32] It was really annoying. First of all, before we start before we start before we start, how old's your dad? Uh 71. Okay, and does your dad live in a house in the suburbs? He had a house in Connecticut, like near Denbury, I guess, and now moved to Florida to a condo.
+
+[4:50] Right. So didn't want to move the storage. That's the one viable reason to actually clear out a storage thing. It's not that it's not like I'm not gonna name my parents here, but it's not like they just want to clear clear out their attic, but they're not moving. I'm not gonna call my parents out for this, but I'm just saying, you know what I mean?
+
+[5:05] Yeah, all right, all right. No, it's so that so anyway, like uh the cross country drive is great, and I figured you'd appreciate we stopped into um Guar Bar in Richmond. Did you know about this? No. There's a bar that they own, GWAR Bar, and it has all their like props and masks and things all hanging from the ceiling and on the walls.
+
+[5:23] They own it. Yeah. The band Guar owns it. Or somebody connected to Guar. I mean, GWAR, like all the original members, I think are either passed on or don't do it's it's like a collective of artists, you know.
+
+[5:37] Right, but it's it's not like the state. It's not the estate of Odorous Arungus that that's I don't believe so, no. All right. But um it's so divy, so perfect, and all those props on the wall. Yeah.
+
+[5:49] No, now uh questions. Are they playing like James Taylor on the jukebox? What are they playing? No, it was more of a guar vibe in there. And what were the drinks like?
+
+[5:58] A lot of fake blood? Did they have a fake blood fountain where they're where they're like, you know, arms flying off? The uh like is it like no, just a dive bar, man. And and but like the kind of people you at the bar, this was like a Monday night or a Sunday night or something. It wasn't even Friday or Saturday night.
+
+[6:14] There are people in weird costumes and outfits. Some people looked like they're falling asleep at the bar. It was kind of perfect. Exactly what you'd hope for. We should do a one-night takeover.
+
+[6:25] Oh, that'd be awesome. Imagine. Yeah. I would love to, Dave. You would never do that.
+
+[6:31] I can drive there. What? You know what? This is one of those things. Everyone hears it and they just believe it's true because you like saying it.
+
+[6:38] And yet, whenever you actually plan something, I have to show up. You know what I'm saying? That's that's the thing. I'm not gonna say what you said yesterday. All right, whatever.
+
+[6:49] You know, no, no, Arlish can go gallivanting around the country at a moment's notice. Anyway, um need a business excuse. Need a business excuse. Uh oh, I have something for you folks, and this is for Patreon people. If you're a Patreon listener and you live in the New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, major metropolitan area, and what you really need out of life is a free six burner wolf commercial gas stove with a full sheet pan, non-convective gas only, no electric hookup at all, standing pilot oven.
+
+[7:22] Well, now's your chance. All you need to do is come down to the lower east side with a truck and get it. Because uh I finally had to give up uh my last piece of well, it's not true, my crate maker is still commercial, but we won't talk about it. But my last piece of hardcore commercial uh equipment and move to a more human uh a more human uh oven. So I'm gonna be wheeling that thing out of its uh cherished spot.
+
+[7:45] Uh it's 36 inches wide for those that are keeping track of this thing and the burners scream. You know what I mean? But anyway, so if uh anyone listening, you know, the Patreon people uh get it first, uh I guess contact us on the Patreon, and then uh, you know, you know, Quinn since Quinn checks the Patreon, he'll he'll check it. But I only have a couple of days, so respond fast if you're gonna do that. A direct message on Patreon.
+
+[8:14] I don't know how to do that. You can do it. Uh, but the uh here here's here's something else. Uh so you know, Nastasi and I were talking about this about trying to do more social garbage for you folks, and my kitchen, you know, I'm no you guys haven't been to it, but my kitchen, current one, my old kitchen was actually perfect for shooting and is amazing. Like you you had huge basically it was uh if you want to shoot you guys know this, I don't know why I'm telling you this, but if you want to shoot good content in your kitchen, best to have an island, right?
+
+[8:40] This way you can you know shoot. And my old kitchen had not only an island, but behind me on the island, I had a six burner garland with a salamander, a commercial deep fat fryer, crepe maker. Uh I had a six-foot-long sink that I could take a whole striper bass into, and like sure, scales would hit the ceiling occasionally, you'd have to get the dried scales off the ceiling, but monster kitchen. And then when I moved ten years ago to get, you know, because you know the kids were getting too big and I couldn't like crush them into one room anymore, uh, because it was a tiny room. I mean, I know that kids live together in room, it's a tiny room.
+
+[9:10] Anyway, uh my kitchen's now a galley. So there are no sight lines in my kitchen at all. You can't shoot in it. So my son Dax was like, Dad, you gotta get one of those, you gotta get one of those Ray-Ban meta glasses. So I have these Ray-Band meta glasses now, and so I'm going to try to do more POV stuff.
+
+[9:27] So maybe for the Patreon, I'll start out with taking a quick POV video of this oven and somehow posting it to the Patreon. But again, move fast. Uh must be nice. Must what, to have uh the meta glasses? That's what I'm wearing now.
+
+[9:39] Do you know that like Delta Airlines says, because uh, you know, my my cousin used to work for Delta, she's like, Delta doesn't let you wear those. I'm like, the honestly, one of the reasons I got them is that my glasses that have uh that are trans not transitional, what's progressive, right? Right? They broke. So these ones, I put color form bifocals on them.
+
+[9:57] These are color forms. Cause you can't just buy progressive lenses that are like blank. Cause my I have 2020 vision up high, right? But you can't just buy readers that are only readers below for people like me that don't want to take their glasses off and on all the time. So I you can buy color form bifocals.
+
+[10:12] I'm not quite used to them yet, but we'll see, we'll see how they work. Uh anyway, point being that like uh Delta doesn't let you bring these glasses on because I guess it's an invasion of other people's privacy. But if these are the only glasses I have that I can read with, who are they to tell me I can't use them? It's ridiculous. Absurd.
+
+[10:28] Especially because everyone's walking around with a phone with a camera on it. What'd you say? You gotta put a little tape on the camera, maybe. No, or they can screw themselves. I mean, look like the the fact of the matter is, like, everyone has a phone that has a camera on it, and all the people who are sitting there pretending to do makeup, I mean, I guess they are doing makeup, they could also just be taking a picture with the other camera.
+
+[10:44] You don't know what the hell people are doing with their cameras. And this one at least, like, you know, Meta is like, oh, I'm gonna give a little light to indicate that you're being recorded, right? You do not have an expectation of privacy or like just around. You know what I mean? People can people can go to hell if they you know what I mean?
+
+[11:04] It's just a ridiculous thing to say. Here's another thing. My cousin, have I told the story before? My cousin who used to work for Delta, when she was uh an exec there for you know for a couple of years in in the HR department, she walks into a meeting. I probably shouldn't say this.
+
+[11:18] I don't know if I'm allowed to say this, but they were having a meeting saying what were going to be like acceptable emotional support animals and not because people have started bringing some absurd emotional support animals on airplanes. Like, for instance, you can't bring an emotion uh an emotional support alligator on an aircraft. Well, didn't someone bring a peacock? Uh something people are crazy, right? So, like there was a meeting, and they're sitting in the meeting and they're trying to figure out what animals to put on the on the do not fly list, right?
+
+[11:45] Right. And uh my cousin walks in, he's like, Oh yeah, you know, it's weird. When we just moved up here, uh, we had to, my husband had to drive up to bring the hedgehog because he didn't want to bother bringing it on the airplane. And the the CEO goes, that's it. Put hedgehogs on the list.
+
+[12:00] No hedgehogs on the plane, no emotional support hedgehogs. So you have my cousin to blame if you try to bring an emotional support hedgehog on Delta Airways. It just it won't work. So so now I want to buy like two emotional support hedgehogs and some meta glasses and walk in there cupping my two hedgehogs with my meta glasses and be like, yo, Delta, eat it. Anyway, but I won't.
+
+[12:24] This is just my New Year's anger coming out. I here, New Year's, right? New Year's. I have a firm suspicion that it's not the major stressors in life that get you because they're they hit it and quit it, right? Like a major stress happens and and you know, you you deal with it, you get over with it.
+
+[12:41] Maybe you have PTSD. But but it's the constant daily stress annoyers that really shave off the years. Don't you think, folks? Don't you think? So my so yeah, so my New Year's resolution is just radically increase the number of those daily stressors in my life.
+
+[12:57] I'm gonna make sure that not a single one of my drawers opens without catching as I open it, you know? Like that there's I'm gonna put a little spring-loaded thing that always just pops up and stops every drawer from opening. I'm gonna make sure my freezer never opens. You know what I mean? Because I feel like like I can shave a good, I could I could shave a good at least a year for every year I'm alive, I could shave another year off with daily stress.
+
+[13:19] I'm pretty sure I can do it. Anyway, old batteries mixed with new batteries. And I'll see and I'll call it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.
+
+[13:25] Yeah, Joe, to your point. Yeah, so what I'll do is I'll take my fresh battery bin and my old battery bin, and I'll just go boom, toss them together. You know what I mean? Yeah. Love it.
+
+[13:38] You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh man. You know what? Or I'll have like lots of like flimsy boxes like full of tiny parts that just go boom and fall on the floor.
+
+[13:49] You know what I mean? Love it. Love it. Love it. Uh this is the kind of New Year's resolution I really feel I can accomplish.
+
+[14:04] Anyway. All right, what else you guys got? You didn't do any cooking over the holidays? I did, but I'm sure you did, so why don't you hook us up with some Quinny Fresh? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[14:20] Alright, uh let's see. Uh Christmas Day, we attempted our first uh biryoni with uh turkey, actually. That turned out pretty good. Why turkey? Just because you had it?
+
+[14:34] I think with turkey because you had it? Yeah, we had fresh uh fresh local turkey, and then rant about fresh turkeys. Did I already go on my rant about this? If you go to your store after Thanksgiving and you see a turkey that says fresh in the freezer case, I know you, I'm just telling people, beware. That thing was fresh and was frozen improperly in the store instead of in a quick freeze at uh at the place.
+
+[15:02] No go ahead. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah. So we got a fresh turkey from the farmer, and then we also wanted a dish that would utilize the new uh saffron. Uh so you know, biryoni seems like the best way to utilize a both without you know making a bunch of different uh dishes.
+
+[15:25] Has Amazon has Amazon kayaked over with your shipment of uh Iranian saffron yet, so you can do this side by side? Have they made it across the channel? No, not yet. Uh huh. But uh, you know, for for a uh a tougher protein, you basically park cook the meat most of the way there and then assemble the berry islanding.
+
+[15:51] It turned out pretty good. All right. Alright. Uh um New Year's, we did a red wine cork stew. Because again, we had some in the freezer.
+
+[16:07] Similar in style to a uh beef or meal. Okay. Turned out really good. All right. Nice.
+
+[16:13] I have some some of those some stew recipes gonna come up uh later, I think, because someone asked about it. Uh I was in Connecticut for um Christmas, so I didn't cook. Uh did I not cook? What did I bring? I brought a honey baked ham.
+
+[16:28] You know who knows how to make a decent city ham, right? Honey baked ham corporation, spiral sliced ham. That means the power move is you buy the whole ham, you eat it until you're done eating it, and then you make soup. I'm about to make the, I'm about to make the soup. Like in the next couple of days, I'll make the soup, and that's the money with the bone.
+
+[16:45] And I think that they make, you know, a decent uh a decent spot. I think they invented the spiral slice technology, the honey-baked ham corporation. So you're gonna make the soup with beans? I am gonna do beans. Uh kind of beans do you do?
+
+[16:58] Black eyes? I you know what? Okay, listen, I have made my own. I I like uh I like I do like but I like like a black-eyed pea situation. I didn't do my standard New Year's thing either.
+
+[17:07] This I didn't make the my I usually make hop and John and I'd make that, or I don't do Italian lentil style stuff. I gotta be telling you, dude, you know, as I get older, I just bought the honey-baked ham like bean soup mix. It's just like boop, boop, boop, done. Although you know what? To be honest, making bean soup is also pretty much like boop, boop, done.
+
+[17:25] So, anywho, uh, it turns out Dax, who is back from Denmark, uh, if he had stayed a couple days longer, I would have made split pea. He goes to me, Dad, I like split pea soup. I'm like, you never told me you like split pea soup. I love split peep soup. I can make split pea soup.
+
+[17:38] Splitview soup is easy and delicious. You know what I'm saying? Whatever. Uh what else? On Christmas, I didn't make anything.
+
+[17:45] I already talked about T2, Thanksgiving 2, right? Because we did that right before the thing. So I didn't do that much uh, I didn't do that much major cooking. Is that true? That can't be true.
+
+[17:55] I'll think about it as we as we talk. Uh what else? What do you guys got before we go to questions? Anything else? No?
+
+[18:03] No? All right. Uh I as my new oven and stuff comes in, I'll be talking more about I I decided to go get a Bosch, by the way, oven. I'm a little nervous because I'm sure the electronics are gonna break on it. The reason I went with Bosch is because this oven, A, fits where I need it to go, and B, it goes up to 550 degrees uh Fahrenheit, right?
+
+[18:27] As a standard setting, it goes up to 550. Now, I have to have all gas in my in my space for my cookware because we don't have enough electricity in the house. You can't you can't do electric. And I would much prefer to have an electric oven because then I could go in and PID it and I'll do all the stuff that I normally do. I'm gonna try to keep this oven so that every modification I make to it can be immediately undone for warranty purposes.
+
+[18:53] But I will say this. I'm not saying that I'm gonna do this because you shouldn't do this, but this temperature sensor in a Bosch oven and in many ovens is what's called a a PT 1000, right? So it's a it's a resistive uh temperature sensor that um as the heat, as as the temperature increases inside of the oven, the resistance goes uh up, right? So, and if you download, which of course you can, the service manual for the oven, it'll tell you what the resistance of that sensor should be at every temperature, at you know, enough temperatures. Furthermore, there is just a simple standard plug that plugs the probe into the board in the back of the oven.
+
+[19:35] So what you can do is just add a resistor in uh in parallel with the resistor that's there, which makes it look like a lower resistance, therefore giving you, let's hear it, higher temperature. So uh one of the things I can't do with this new oven is my stone bowls, my toll sods, my Korean stone bowls, because I need to get those up to about 615 degrees and this and the burners won't be hot enough to do that. So I may or may not put a switch with a resistor on it so that I can take them up to 615 in the oven. That may be the only modification I do. We have a color, caller you're on the air.
+
+[20:08] Hold on, I was like, caller, what's up? Hey Dave, Josh from Norfolk here. How are you? Hey, all right, how are you doing? Doing good.
+
+[20:16] Have you been to Guar Bar? I have been to Guar Bar many times. I uh am actually friends with their touring sound tech. Wow. Nice.
+
+[20:26] Virginia Natives Guardian. I did not know that, really? I always thought they were RISD. I thought there were RISD kids back in the day. Huh?
+
+[20:34] All right. I don't know. I guess because their skills are high. We claim them. Nice.
+
+[20:38] All right. That's us in outer space. Um I have a uh in emulsification question. Um I'm working on getting trying to figure out how to get orange oil to incorporate into a syrup without coming out of solution. Um I've tried a little bit of gum arabic, which is helping a bit, but I'm uh hoping you got something uh a little more heavy duty.
+
+[21:05] What is the end application? Is it a soda base or or a uh is it a soda base or a shake like shake and drink bit? What are you looking to put it into? Uh stred drink base. Okay.
+
+[21:19] That's the problem. So you want it clear. Ideally, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[21:25] See, most of those emulsions with those oils are cloudy, right? Because you're not gonna make a a micro emulsion with it. And um the oil I have is pretty clear. It's like a 100% pressed uh orange oil. Right.
+
+[21:39] But when you make the emulsion, like think about this. If you take uh water and oil both clear and make an emulsion, now it's cloudy because the refractive index is that the two things are different, and as the light goes in and passes from the continuous phase through one of the, you know, um, whatever you want to, what do you want to call my cells or something of the of the of the included phase, it def it it, you know, diffuses, diffracts out, and then you get like that hazy effect. So like one of the ways to tell whether you have an emulsion or not, or you know, a suspension or an emulsion, because remember, think about this an emulsion is really a suspension, right? Is that it's not clear. So the way the only way you can get clear emulsions is to do a micro emulsion, right?
+
+[22:29] So uh you can do micro emulsions. I don't know any way I don't, you know, I don't know any way to do it for food, you know, but it it it it it can be done. Now you can have it not clear, that's easy, right? And uh for food, nothing that I know of beats gum arabic for um keeping stuff in suspension, emulsified and in susp well, emulsified, uh, over wide temperature and dilution ranges. It's just expensive.
+
+[23:05] You know, so you could just use more of it, right? But I always then stabilize the syrups with Xanthan so that they don't separate as much, right? That's why I always use a mixture of Arabic and Xanthan, which you know, they used to sell under Ticoloid, they might still, Tino, uh 30, 301, 210s or 310s, but you know, now I just make my own mixtures of Arabic and Xanthan. I don't have the ratio off the top of my head, but you know, you're using them on the order of like a percent and a half of Arabic. Were you using that much?
+
+[23:37] Uh I would have to check my sheet, but I think right around there. Right on a on uh on a yeah, is that a was that on a full basis or a liquid basis? It might have been higher on a liquid basis, because remember, you got to remove the sugar from your from your mental calculations. And that should hold right the orange oil. They used to use what's called brominated vegetable oils, right?
+
+[23:58] Uh like they would weight the oils so that they like the oil phase would actually be heavier and then it would stay much closer in weight, but you know, uh, I don't know, I guess it's not good for you brominated vegetable oil. I don't know. I guess, you know, and that would help stabilize the emulsions. What do you got, Gwen? Dorothy O'Neill has several videos about both uh emulsions in general and and he reviews some patents from Crystal Pepsi for making clear uh emulsions.
+
+[24:33] I think she just uses sucrose esters or um play thervey? An actual clear emuls, first of all, like the less stuff you put in, the less oil you put in, the clearer it's going to be, right? So for instance, you know, uh I did a bunch of tests with milk, and this is an interesting thing to do. You know how much stuff's in milk, right? Because you can look it up.
+
+[24:59] And it takes a very large amount, a very small amount of milk will make a very large amount of water cloudy, right? Uh, because it doesn't take that much suspended stuff, right? And to make something clear with large amounts of oil in it, right? The only way to do it is, well, lar even reasonably small amounts is to have the uh actual size m be m so small that it no longer bends light as light goes through it. And I don't know of any like bar friendly way to do that.
+
+[25:38] Now I haven't reviewed the crystal Pepsi stuff, but my guess is they use a microscopic amount of oil in it, right? So, you know, I don't know. Yeah, we'll we'll look at look look at look into it. Uh also uh can this product you're making could it be alcoholic? Because then you could just as soon as you dilute it, it looshes out.
+
+[26:00] This is the problem I this is the problem everyone the first time the first time they do use a rotary evaporator, they they use all of these uh like you specifically things that have like anist flavors in them, right? You make these beautiful like liquors and then you water them and boom, they go white. You know what I mean? Because boom, that you know, you've gone below their their uh threshold of uh solubility. So these are all like, you know, these are all games you can play.
+
+[26:24] It's just a question of like, oh, uh, and orange oil does it too. So if you if you distill oranges into liquor, you can make a nice clear uh like orange flavored thing, and then you hit it and it looshes out. You know what I mean? Like fast. So what I used to do, like Thai basil and orange peel really looshed.
+
+[26:43] Tasted delicious. You know what I mean? But looshed like a monster. Dave Harold wrote back. Oh, oh well, okay.
+
+[26:50] So hold on a second. Wait, wait, uh Josh, we answer this question or not. Yeah, I was looking, I just ran my numbers, and uh I am using a little less Zanban than uh one and a half percent if I'm gonna do it. Oh, no, no, Zanthan are using a very small amount. Arabic.
+
+[27:06] I'm sorry, sorry, gum Arabic. Yeah, yeah. I haven't I haven't used any Xanthan in it so far. I would use Xanthan. I would use Xanthan.
+
+[27:12] I forget what my numbers are, really, honestly, I'd forget, but I would use I would just start with uh whatever your Arabic percentage is, like divide by 10 and use that in Xanthan. So like go up to two on Arabic and like a and like you know, two percent on Xanthan or like one and a half, one and one and a half point one five, somewhere like that. See how that see how that works for you. Okay, killer. In the new year, have you finally realized in the new year that a hot dog is indeed not a sandwich?
+
+[27:42] Uh you can pry that opinion off my cold dead arm where I have it tattooed. Um, don't tempt me. Don't tempt me. But yeah, yeah. I mean, it would go well at your guar bar takeover.
+
+[27:54] Yeah, oh my god. Oh my god, can we make a fake your arm and then sever it at the guar bar takeover and then like have like a fake blood cocktail be spraying all over everyone, and like people can like lose your fake blood arm? I mean, I'm I'm sure I'm no more than two degrees of Kevin Bacon away from the people who run that place. So I could make it happen if you want. Yeah, let's do this.
+
+[28:14] Let's do it. You know? Um Business Excuse. Yeah, business excuse right here. And we can have uh we could have like someone dressed in the outfit, this hippie thinks a hot dog's a sandwich, wham, cut your arm off.
+
+[28:28] Stuff spreading everywhere. You know what I mean? I'm always happy to sacrifice my body for the game. Yeah, they could be playing preschool prostitute in the background, you know, some old classics, you know what I mean? Anyway.
+
+[28:39] Yeah. Hey, on the way out, that's a guar song, by the way, folks. I didn't make that up. All right. Yeah.
+
+[28:44] I recently treated myself to a Kunricon pressure cooker, and I don't know how I lived this long without one. Me either, dude. Me either. Oh, be speaking of which though, I I uh have any has anyone who's listened to my voice here ever bought, maybe you have, Josh, a uh a wherever chicken bucket. No?
+
+[29:03] Anyone know about the wherever chicken bucket? The wherever chicken bucket is the only ever device sold for home use that was specifically intended for pressure frying chicken. Huh? Huh? Huh?
+
+[29:19] Yeah. What's that? Well, they stopped making them years ago because they're wildly unsafe. But uh since they're designed for it, I kind of want to get my my hands on one. Uh the trick with them, right, is all about temperature control.
+
+[29:33] You see what I'm saying? So, like I'm I'm keeping I'm keeping it my eyes peeled for an electric one because that one is set to a thermostatic temperature, or because you can't put a wherever chicken bucket on uh a control freak induction unit because it's all aluminum. There's no like induction plate on the bottom of it. So you can't like you know, accurately induction do dad, one of those things. I mean couldn't be welding problem.
+
+[30:02] No no no you no no someone should someone should come up with a business where where they'll take your old pot and they'll spot weld or like you know like like some like stainless onto the bottom of your aluminum wear. But to uh Joe's point here, uh the issue is that is that if everything goes well it's fine. Yeah. Yeah but I'll never forget like there's some kitchen things that happened to you that you don't ever forget. Right?
+
+[30:34] One of them, Nastasia the Hammer Lopez, Piper Christensen and I were in the Eldritch Street lab back when Booker and Dax had a lab on Eldritch Street. We had our induction unit, commercial one, you know, screamer, and a giant uh pot, I think was the biggest I think it was Coon Recon, but it was the biggest one that uh that they make. And we had a a pot of stock going for some reason. We had a full pot of stock going and it was at 15 PSI. You know, and I for those of you that don't know I did a bunch of posts a years ago and I still stand by this that you don't want to have your pressure cooker be venting when you're making stock.
+
+[31:14] So the old school jiggler pressure cookers that are like those things uh in all of the taste tests and we ran it multiple multiple times this the pressure cooked like chicken stock that we made with a a pressure cooker that vented was much, much worse than a press than one made in a pressure cooker that did not vent, aka the Coon Recon, and worse even than just making it on a stove, not in a pressure cooker. Okay. Uh just tasted flatter. And we think it's just it's venting off all of those aromatics at at you know at that high temperature. So I've been a non-venting pressure cooker person forever.
+
+[31:49] But there is a safety device on the Coon Recon that is a little, it's a little, it's a little like spring-loaded megilla that you can see on the thing. It's like a little looks like a little cap, like a little vent cap. And as it's coming up to pressure, right, the steam comes up and out of it, and you'll hear it hiss. And then it's supposed to, as the pressure builds a little bit, and then goes silent. So the it's a piece of silicone and it loses its compliance over the years.
+
+[32:20] So Nastasia and Piper and I are in the lab and we have this giant thing of stock and it's hissing. So I'm thinking to myself, my stock's getting ruined. So I walk over and I'm trying to tap the piece of uh the piece of rubber that the the piece is, you know, that the little plunger is in. I'm trying to tap the rubber to get it to seal, right? And of course, because I'm an inherently angry person, I tapped it too hard and I popped it into the top of the lid, and then a geyser of boiling, not just boiling, 259 Fahrenheit stock, rocketed towards the ceiling, hit our rather high ceiling, and then rained down all over everything and everybody in the kitchen.
+
+[33:08] Remember this, Daz? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was real bad.
+
+[33:14] It was real bad. And so, like uh, or here's another one. Uh uh first time I deep fried a chicken, uh a turkey, right? I forgot to uh make sure that there's no way that you could that you could get the like a rocket going. So I basically created the turkey became a rocket motor because I completely cleared out the cavity.
+
+[33:35] And so when I put it in, water that's in the turkey thing formed like a venturae and the and shot oil directly up out of the turkey's butt, like straight out of the turkey's behind, up like a good two feet into the air and rained all over everywhere, destroyed the lawn, destroyed, you know, ruined Thanksgiving, stuff like that. So things like this lead me to believe that when you're dealing with high temperatures under pressure, and oil that if it gets on you is a real day ruiner, that it's fine until it's not. Leave it for the geologists. Yeah, it's fine until it's not. Uh okay, Harold's thing.
+
+[34:08] Well, I I I gotta ask the question first before we before we say what the answer is. I gotta ask the question. So you're saying I should do that. So you're saying I should do that. All right.
+
+[34:18] When Rick wrote in and says, Does anyone know a source for Harold McGee's legendary low tannin nuts, walnuts that Dave has mentioned in the past? And you texted Harold and apparently he got back to you. He said, Hey Nastasia, long time agreed that my nuts bring us together. They were a promo. Uh uh.
+
+[34:39] They were a promo from the California Walnut Board. Just found the email exchange, November 2009. Memories of the Gene Lester excursion, worst trip ever. There are a couple vendors. He didn't say that.
+
+[34:51] That was anastasia side, right? That was anastasia side. He didn't say that. All right, go ahead. We didn't have lunch.
+
+[35:01] Who sell fresh harvest? But did he say the name of it, the variety of a lone tannin nuts? No. No, he's being elusive. Coming together with his nuts.
+
+[35:11] Um, anyway, um great. Soupy dupes. All right. Did we cover and smother everything we've been talking about so far? Covered and smothered.
+
+[35:14] Nice. All right. Tony Tony. Tony Tony, you need one more Tony, and you're Tony Tony Tony. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[35:30] Anyway. Or is it Tony Tony Tone? Tony Tony Tony? Tony Tony Tony. Tony Tony Tone.
+
+[35:34] All right. Hey, uh, my son, who brags about his uni oven all the time, got me an ONI oven stone from my birthday. And I can't express how disappointed I was when I opened the box and found uh the stone not an oven like his. Oh. One of but I have to say, Tony Tone.
+
+[35:54] A stone is gonna come in a smaller oven, a smaller box than the oven, unless your son totally punked you and handed you uh an oven box with a stone in it, which would be a pretty especially since you were Jones and you also have the new electric one. Maybe the electric one is in a similar size box. That's like a full-size stone. A stone is still just the thickness of a stone, and an oven still has to fit something into it. I mean, I don't understand.
+
+[36:20] Could be a big, big box, though. Hey, listen, as someone who's in the business of trying to ship things to people, you know what you choose? The smallest box. The smallest box. You know what I mean?
+
+[36:34] It's only Amazon that only has like five sizes of boxes, so we'll send you like, you know, you know, a tiny thing in a giant box. Although they even they've stopped doing it. Um, I won't tell your son, because I don't know, don't know who they are, that you were disappointed at the gift. Uh so here's the big question. Looking at YouTube, one can literally find arguments for putting a pizza stone anywhere in the oven.
+
+[36:53] There's even top rack advocates. Uh, where should I place the stone? I'm leaning towards putting the stone on the very bottom of the oven between the racks. But at this point, my partner uh in in uh parents for Nastasia's benefit, I assume, a woman insists that I'm simply crazy. Um, I put it on the oven.
+
+[37:09] Yeah. I would put it on the bottom. Like, why not? Like the real question is I don't know, it really depends on your oven, right? So and where your oven is sensing temperature.
+
+[37:20] So if your oven is uh like most ovens are sensing the temperature in the top, right? So, like for instance, I happen to know the thermo the uh PT1100 in my new oven that hasn't shown up yet is in the upper left-hand corner of the oven. So anywhere near the bottom, and you're probably gonna get it hot. You it in general you have to put it, you have to use like an IR thermometer or something and check to see where it gets to the right temperature when the rest of your oven is the right temperature. Anyone who puts a stone in the top, they're probably doing it just to increase the thermal mass, right?
+
+[37:53] Or maybe they they were getting uh hot spots because like uh they were right over uh uh an element. I mean, it really depends on the how your elements are and how the heat from your elements needs to be moderated out. I used to have uh a heated stone, so like I I put a a heating element onto the stone and then embedded it in refractory and then temperature controlled the stone itself independently from the oven. So that allows you to do like a a lot a lot of stuff, but it's a huge pain in the in the behind to do that. And so when I did when I back when I did that, I had a stone on the bottom and a stone on the top independently heated and temperature controlled.
+
+[38:29] But it doesn't sound like you want to do that because your your partner already thinks you're nuts. You know what I mean? And there's really something to be said for having someone else be able to walk up to your oven and just turn it on. You know what I mean? Like when people came over to my house before and I had like a four-channel like temperature controller with all these buttons, and you know, all they want to do is reheat something, and you have to like read them, you know, a manual on how to do it.
+
+[38:52] It doesn't really, you know, it's not the best. What do you guys think? Nothing. Nothing. No thoughts.
+
+[39:00] Nothing. Nothing. It's like you UConn Cornelius. Put the put the put the pick in the ground, pull it out. Nothing.
+
+[39:08] One day I'll get a peppermint mine. Woohoo! Uh Eric from Sacramento writes in, hello. Well, would it be possible to get the spec for the bishop's wife that Dave mentioned in the last episode? Oh man, I somehow I didn't see this on my way over.
+
+[39:22] I have the spec, but I always get it wrong. It's bronchamenta. I'm gonna want to say it's three quarters of an ounce of bronca menta. And then I'm gonna wanna say it's like ounce and a half of uh of cognac, a light cognac, right? So like not a V SOP, even though that's the better song.
+
+[39:40] No one wrote a song called VS. You know what I'm saying? You want like a lighter cognac because you don't want uh all the wood. And then it was, I want to say a quarter of an ounce of or like a short quarter of an ounce of two to one uh listen, we say demorar syrup, but really we just mean dark brown sugar. That's the that's the that's the thing that no one talks about.
+
+[40:02] It's really just brown sugar. Anyway, uh I mean there are people who use real demorar, but I'm not one of them. Anyway, so uh that, and then you red hot poke it. Now, the issue with making this thing at home if you don't have a red hot poker, is um it doesn't have that much sugar in it, so I don't know that you'll be able to do the trick where you burn it on the bottom of the oven, but that's the spec. And you you burn it, uh, and then did we put a twist on it?
+
+[40:25] You know what, Eric, I'll look it up again. But this is basically what it is, and I think they put it on the Instagram and you can see how we serve it. And I might they might even call out the recipe. I should tell them just to put the recipe on the Instagram when they do that stuff because like why hide it? You know what I'm saying?
+
+[40:39] Why hide it? It's not the recipe that makes the reason that people come to the bar, it's because we have the red hot pokers and all this other stuff. So there's never a reason to hide your recipe. You know what I'm saying? Uh the other thing is that we now serve it with the Tim Tam, so you have to do the Tim Tam Slam, which we've discussed, the Tim Tam Slam.
+
+[40:56] Just Google it if you don't know what it is. I'm not gonna go through the whole Australian Tim Tam Slam to, you know, for fear of triggering nostasia. Uh Dave, I want to give a shout out to somebody in LA that people should go eat there. Okay. Um Adam Leonti uh has a restaurant called Alba, and it is reasonably priced Italian food, and everybody should go.
+
+[41:19] What is reasonably priced? Like the pastas are like, you know, $16. Like, not like $28 or whatever. And it's in like a really beautiful space, and everything is like like wonderful and delicious. Yes.
+
+[41:35] And is he milling all his own stuff? I didn't ask him. And uh he lives there now, not here. Yeah, he lives here now. He doesn't really like it, but yeah.
+
+[41:47] Yeah, well, you know, that's it is you know, the good uh like all the good people, they don't like it anywhere. That's what they find. You move and you're like, oh my god, thank god I left where I was, and you're like, oh wait, I'm just unhappy. Yes. You know what I mean?
+
+[41:59] I'm just an unhappy person. Uh yeah. Uh speaking of, uh uh, I followed Ariel's lead. I should, when I say I did, uh Jen, my wife Jen got me this for the the Christmas. I went to go see the uh waiting for Gado with uh winter and and Reeves.
+
+[42:15] Good. Is it Godot or Godot or good? It's gado, but you know, we everyone grows up, including myself included, calling it godot because that's it looks like it's some sort of French word. And it was originally written in French. You know, the original original, and then it was rewritten it as waiting for gato in in English, because he was you know bilingual, uh Beckett.
+
+[42:35] Uh, but it is supposed to be uh goddo, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. And the the the That's a great story. Yeah, and the two other characters also were fantastic. Oh Pazzo and uh, you know, and the and the you know, they call him pig, what's Lucky, Potso and Lucky. Uh real good, uh really good sets, and enjoyable.
+
+[42:55] But you know, it's also I I enjoyed it, and uh, you know, I'm a little talking a little out of turn here, but you know, my wife never comes on the show, so I can tell her story for her. Normally I'd let her tell it. But she she she saw it, and this just shows what happens, you know, with life. She's like, when I read this, you know, when I was young, like I thought of it as theater of the absurd, but now when I see it at this point in my life, I'm like, this is just real. This is just reality.
+
+[43:19] You know, this is just the way life is. It makes sense to me. Which is, you know, anyway. Uh what are we talking about? Oh, shout out.
+
+[43:27] Adam Leonte, unhappy. Okay. Yeah. Uh I also have uh I also have a a moral uh quandary. So a friend of the show, Peter Kim, right?
+
+[43:37] Yeah. What do we call him, Dave? Oh, uh well, he used to be when he would come on all the time, uh, our favorite punching bag. Okay, let's say you invite somebody to a New Year's party of like a Okay, listen, since I know the answer, let's open this up to the rest of the crew. Oh boy.
+
+[43:54] All right. Of like a legend, like uh like a musical leg. Like somebody that's right, okay. So it's just so people know, it's not Carol King, but somebody at that level. No, it's let's no, let's not even say it's a man.
+
+[44:10] So uh so you bring them to this house and you're like, listen, I need you to just chill and be like uh a wallflower, right? And let's say this legend starts singing. Let me ask one question first before we go. So these are your friends, your contacts, and you're like, I will invite you to this event. Please just freaking chill.
+
+[44:35] All right. So this legend starts thinking are in the room. Right. And th then they're like, no, I'm not, I'm not thinking, 'cause this is like, you know, this is too much. I can't possibly.
+
+[44:49] But then your friend decides that he's on the level of this legend, and he s gets up and starts singing and grabs their guitar. Is is that okay? I mean, is it is it something that I get to watch and laugh, or it's my or I'm you? You're me. Yeah.
+
+[45:13] If I'm you, it's not okay. And if I'm anybody else, it's hilarious. You know what I'm saying? But how was it received? How is it received though?
+
+[45:26] I asked Nastasi that and her reply was I don't know if you remember, Stas, you said, I couldn't tell staring through my blind rage. Yeah. Yeah. That's classic though. Listen, classic.
+
+[45:49] You know, when when you give a ride, when you give a ride across the river to a scorpion, it will sting you. You know what's gonna happen. You know what I mean? It's like this happens all the time. Like when people uh you know ask me to do things and they they get things that they don't want, I'm like this is all able to be anticipated.
+
+[46:09] Same with Peter. It's all it's all pre-known. You know what I mean? Yes. You know?
+
+[46:18] Anyway. Um TV what is it? How do you pronounce this again? I always ask my question. We gotta ask them.
+
+[46:30] It's it's thank you very much. Oh, thank you very much. Now let me ask you a question. Do you consider polenta to be mush? It can be.
+
+[46:42] I mean, like if someone says I'm gonna get mush, do you think polenta counts? Yeah. It is scrapple mush. Are you allowed to let it reset? In other words, can mush be set as a block and then fried.
+
+[46:59] I feel like that's a philosophical question. If it's set, it's no longer mush. Right. That's why I feel it. So you think you think you you a mush has to be fresh.
+
+[47:10] If it's allowed to cool and then recooked and no longer mush. Like there are mushes that will mush. Ain't no mush. Ain't no mush I ever use this days as mush. By the way, people, all of you overnight oat folks, why not just cook it?
+
+[47:27] Why not just cook it? Like i I guess you're trying to reduce the like, you know, I I I feel that most overnight oat people it's some sort of health thing, and I would guess that there's a lot that is less bioavailable in an uncooked, just waterlogged, uncooked oat than there would be had you cooked it. Well, I mean, aren't aren't uh rolled oats or quick oats technically cooked? Uh par cooked, I guess. I mean par cooked.
+
+[47:56] Well quick quick quick oats are like fully cooked, I think. I don't know. If they're designed to like dissolve in like that's instant oats. Yeah, well. Anyway, point being uh just cook those dang things.
+
+[48:09] Like, just cook 'em. Just cook, just cook it. Just cook it. You know what I mean? This is a good use for a rice cooker, P.S.
+
+[48:16] Good use for a rice cooker. Um, so uh thank you very much. Is it possible to make sweetbread charcuterie? Uh I have a pack in the freezer and trying to figure out something interesting to do with them. Well, what do you mean?
+
+[48:31] Like, cure it? I've never I've never seen I've never seen dried or cured sweetbreads. Not saying it's impossible. I've just never seen them, and they're they're kind of good, just breaded and fried. Like they're sitting there saying to you, bread me, fry me.
+
+[48:46] You know what I mean? I like do you guys like sweetbreads? No? Not not a thymus. Yeah, I've actually ever had them.
+
+[48:52] You've never had some thymus glands, dude? Gotta go thymus. I think people wouldn't here's the thing. Sweetbreads is the dumbest name on earth. 'Cause the they agreed.
+
+[49:06] They don't look like sweetbreads. They they obviously aren't related to breads or sweets. Like why? Why are they called sweetbreads? Yeah.
+
+[49:13] Yeah, it makes no sense. Makes no sense. You know what I mean? Anyway. And they're not even gross.
+
+[49:19] So it's not it's not like calling like a butthole something, right? It's not like you're serving a butthole and calling it a sweetbread to try to take away the uh the the mental image of a butthole. You know what I'm saying? I I guess it comes from a 16th century term. Um where bread meant flesh or meat, and sweet meant pleasant or delicate.
+
+[49:43] Haven't we progressed? Could use a rebrand. Could use a rebrand. Yeah. I mean, but thymus isn't the answer, right?
+
+[49:52] It sounds like a it sounds like a primus cover band. It's no good. Nobody wants that. Um nice thing about the sweetbread is it requires you, it requires you to murder the young of the animals because uh the thymus disappears over time. So yeah.
+
+[50:10] Babies. Lamb sweetbreads, delicious. Anyway, uh so no, I don't know about that. Can you go Dave? Can you know more about how you're gonna have a bunch of micro stressors this year?
+
+[50:23] I gotta think about it, because I was literally just thinking about it on the bike ride, uh, on the bike ride over here, just like things I can do. Um, you know, like I would say a good half of my closet doors can now shut. And, you know, maybe I should make it so that none of the closet doors can shut, right? So like you're trying to stick like that luggage that you have in the like up on the high part of the of the of the closets, but now the the door springs open on you. You know what I mean?
+
+[50:51] I I think to really make it the best is like you have to the the nice thing about a uh a a repetitive stressor is just to get it so it's very close to being right but isn't right so like so like you shut the door and the magnetic latch catches and then two seconds after you release it poop it pops open again you know what I mean like that's that's when it's the best you know what I mean you don't drive do you I do I do yeah but how about your driving stresses well you know that's why I use I-95 because uh past the same person multiple times I'm like guys keep on jumping each other yeah I in fact you know like if I had the money I would hire someone to just zip around in the lanes to go in front and then fall behind because they chose the wrong lane and like almost cause accidents constantly right so my my three favorite roads that I like to take when I when I'm feeling mellow and need some stress I like the BQE love the BQE Bruckner and I ninety five I mean like with those things and then you know on if I'm really feeling I want to treat myself I'll just back and forth through the Lincoln tunnel. You know what I mean? I do have to say I I I'm very proud of myself because every year we end up going over either to the Soho House or Pasties for Christmas Day dinner and I this the other morning I woke up I said are we going to New Jersey again this year? Because every year I go, I always take the wrong turn I end up going to the tunnel and go to New Jersey and it's a big fight in the car and everyone's upset and I yelled AW This year I figured it out. You didn't go to New Jersey no jersey.
+
+[52:34] No Jersey? You made it all the way to meat packing without going to New Jersey, huh? You're the only one. You're the only one. Oh man.
+
+[52:48] Hey, uh, is is uh is our friend Jeremy Tom Shek still the chef there? Did you ask? Or you No, I didn't. It was a really, really nice ambiance. Yeah.
+
+[52:56] Yeah. I went years ago and Jeremy was running it. I don't know if he's there or if he was there on Christmas. Uh uh. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[53:04] So uh those are some more stresses uh to look forward to in in life. Um let me see. Um, from uh not so uh Serena, longtime uh friend of the show, uh says, she says, I'm a low quality individual and I love diet soda. Now listen, I also like diet soda. I used to drink only diet soda.
+
+[53:25] Oh, yeah, I love it. And I'll say this, and I've said this many times, but in case this is the first time you're hearing this, this is not a rant, this is just a PSA. When you are shopping for a party, and you're like, okay, there is only two diet soda drinkers for every eight regular soda drinkers. How much regular soda should I buy and how much diet soda should I buy? The answer isn't eight bottles of regular and two bottles of diet.
+
+[53:52] The answer is at least equal amounts of each because a diet soda drinker drinks eight times as much diet soda as a regular soda drinker drinks of regular soda. So really, it's like almost like turned on its head. And regular soda drinkers can't understand this because a diet soda drinker is not drinking it as a sweet treat. It is a means of hydration for them. Right?
+
+[54:14] Right? So just a little thing. So I'm years ago moved off the diet soda train and moved on to the seltzer train, right? But you know, I used to drink almost exclusively diet soda. Anyway.
+
+[54:27] Um, so I don't think it's low, low quality. Uh I mean, I mean, technically it is, but you know, you know what I'm saying. I mean, we're all low quality individuals, aren't we? Uh sometimes like the i i i if you can't admit that you're low quality, that's the sign of irredeemable, right? You know?
+
+[54:44] Yeah, that's something lower than low quality for sure. Right, right, right. If if if anything of uh, you know, being part of the cultural tradition I'm from uh means anything. It's that we are all low quality individuals. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[54:57] Um that's right. Yeah. Uh anyway, back to diet soda. Sometimes I want something more interesting. So I want to think of ways to make my case of Diet Sunkist uh Diet Sunkist.
+
+[55:07] You know what Diet Sunkist uh, I used to drink Diet Sunkist. It's sometimes like the off brands, you ever buy an off brand of of orange soda, and then when you're when you pour it, you realize that there's a ring of like orange gunk stuck on the outside of the bottle, on the inside of the bottle at the level of the thing. That is on the on the cut rate sodas poor quality uh orange oil stabilization to go back to the uh you know what we're talking about with Josh earlier in the show. And I will add, uh the um uh they add special cloudy agents to orange stuff to make you think that they've put more uh put more orange oil in it than they actually have. So they sell clouding agents to make it appear that they have done a uh a a more impressive job of making the orange soda than they actually have.
+
+[55:57] Uh and those are, you know, small emulsions. Anyway, I want to add some bitterness to tone down the sweetness. I like adding Sue's, uh, which is obviously alcoholic, but I want to know what interesting bitters I can add instead for dimensions and keep the out content to zero. Well, you can use bitters bitters, which are still alcoholic, but are very easy to buy, and that's, you know, those are fun. But for this, uh, I would just start making there are certain tinctures that are extremely uh potent, right?
+
+[56:21] So one of them is wormwood. So the I typically make a tincture that is uh three grams of wormwood leaves dried in 200 grams of boiling water, and because it's easy, right? And I just make it and you, you know, you agitate it as it cools, and then you, you know, you let it sit, and yeah, you can let it sit overnight if you want, strain it, press it, and like literally like a couple of mils of that in your drink will go pow bitter it straight up. Gention's another good one, right? So like I would just get like gention, wormwood.
+
+[56:52] Um I find that things like you know, quasia and you know, quinine are good, but I though the in terms of a non-alcoholic bitterant that is like real powerful and consistent, wormwood is hard to beat if you like the taste of it, right? And gention also is good and can be made very strong in a small quantity, and it's kind of hard to beat. And then if you want to move to more, you know, interesting things, you know, most of the more interesting ones, you want to get more of like the aromatics out of them. You have to use in slightly higher quantities. So I don't know if you want to get into that, but we can we can talk more about it if you want.
+
+[57:23] Just ask more. Uh Kev writes in uh forgive me if this was answered over this is I'm I assume this is Kevin Jung, but I don't know. Forgive me if this was answered a while back, but uh there's been an Instagram reel going around from Fallow Restaurant where they add baking soda to their chicken brine along with vinegar at the same time, P.S. because I saw it. So it's not like they added baking soda and then added vinegar and then quickly did something.
+
+[57:46] It's like they make a brine where they add baking soda and vinegar at the same time and claim that the baking soda acts as a tenderizer. A friend who's opening a rotisserie chicken concept asked me about it earlier and whether it was something smart to do. I'm under the impression that the baking soda vinegar reaction effectively nullifies the alkaline tendering properties along with producing carbon dioxide. But my you know, my gut instinct is that this is a load of malarkey. Well, Kev, it's also mine.
+
+[58:10] Uh maybe they're getting some of the flavor of the vinegar, but uh look, me, the whole tenderizing effect of baking soda is the theory behind it is that you're lower, you're increasing the pH. And by increasing the pH, you're increasing the water holding capacity of the meat. You're also making it taste like baking soda. So, like most people who do it then wash wash it off. So there is some sort of like surface uh, there is some sort of surface effect to it, but um and I could imagine a stepwise situation where you use uh, you know, but I I don't see how this could possibly be effective other than to introduce the kind of some of the flavors of having vinegar in it.
+
+[58:46] Uh but you're you're essentially making sodium acetate when you're doing this. And uh I just don't see how having sodium acetate in your brine is going to be more helpful than just salt. Uh, but I'm willing to be wrong. Um see, uh Andos wrote it in, I have 43 seconds left. Andos writes in a few episodes ago, Dave mentioned a pressure cooked carbonade, which is the Belgian uh stew.
+
+[59:08] Uh have I posted it? I think I did, but I can mention it real quick. The main thing is just in your pressure cooker, use a lot of onions because they uh you lose a lot of the flavor of onions. So I use four uh about a kilo or a little over a kilo of beef. I use like 700 grams of onions.
+
+[59:24] I cook them down uh in the pressure cooker for a long time. Salt, uh, so and then it's separate pan, salt, uh sorry, salt and the onions, yeah, olive oil, and uh dredge your meat pieces in flour. I use about uh 25 grams of flour to about a kilo of uh roast, and then you know, salt, pepper, uh cook those off to get a nice brown crust, then take uh uh bouillon. I use chicken or chicken stock, but you can use beef stock if you want, and uh 12 ounce bottle of uh of like a le uh leffe. I use leffa, like a not too hoppy, not too bitter beer.
+
+[59:56] Reduce that down to about a cup. The reason you want to reduce that to a cup is you don't want a lot of liquid in it. You want to reduce it as much as possible. Add some sugar, I add some thyme, uh, and you'll congrect with black pepper and whatnot. You put that in with the meat uh and the onions.
+
+[1:00:12] Then here's the real trick. You take about 225 grams of like dark pumper nickel brown bread and you spread mustard like a good spicy mustard on the top. I use about 60 grams of mustard, then you close that up. You let the bread sit on top with the mustard. You close it, you pressure cook it for as long as the meat requires.
+
+[1:00:29] It depends on the meat, but it's gonna be somewhere like 20-25 minutes. Let it come down. When you open it, mush the bread up into it, the thaw sauce should thicken up and you should have a delicious day. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan Rockefellers and New York City News Dam Studios. Joined again with John. How you doing? Doing great.
+
+[0:20] Yeah. Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels. What's up? Hi. Hey, hey, hey.
+
+[0:26] Hello. Got Jackie Molecules over there on the west side of our great nation. How you doing? Although I guess Hawaii's really the west side, right? That's the real West.
+
+[0:35] Right. Let me ask you a question. Technically. I guess if you're on the where is the Western Hemisphere? Is it in the Western Hemisphere?
+
+[0:45] Uh not yeah. Is it? Hawaii? Yeah, I don't know. I'm asking.
+
+[0:51] I guess it's due south of Alaska, right? Or not due south, but pretty due south of Alaska. So if Alaska's in it is. Yeah. Huh.
+
+[0:59] All right. Yeah, it is. Yeah, okay. Yeah. So they're the West.
+
+[1:02] You're nothing. You're puny. You're worthless. I'm like the center, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[1:06] You're when, you know, once you're once your state cracks off and floats off into the ocean, you know, then come talk to me. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh in the uh upper left off the coast, who's uh his his portion of the nation is already cracked off in Vancouver Island.
+
+[1:21] We got Quinn. How you doing? I'm good. Yeah? All right, cool.
+
+[1:26] And uh no hammer today. Uh John's not here yesterday, so we haven't heard of anything from you in like you have like a month worth of cooking crap to talk to us about. Your holiday cooking crap, anything. Yeah, jeez. Yeah.
+
+[1:38] Yeah. But before we do that, let's uh tell people that the lines are open. If you are listening live on Patreon and wish to ask us a question, calling your questions live too, 917-410-1507. That's 917-410-1507. And I don't know, what do you want to do, John?
+
+[1:52] Why don't you tell them why they might want to join the Patreon? Go to patreon.com/slash cooking issues. You can check out the different membership levels that we've got, all the membership levels come with access to our Discord, which um connects you with everyone else who listens. It's uh bounce questions off each other, different topics, all these things, it's great. You get your questions prioritized, you get access to discounts uh at Kitchen Arts and Logites and other partners that we work with.
+
+[2:15] So yeah, it's a great opportunity. Go check it out. Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Yeah, and get this. Get this cooking issues people, listen.
+
+[2:23] If you were listening to our double header, we had a guest on where there was a mistake made, and we actually put out our live broadcast before the press embargo on their information was given up. So any of you uh what is that new betting? What are those new betting sites where you're allowed to bet on anything? Like Kashi. Polymarket.
+
+[2:41] Yeah, polymarket, yeah, polymarket. So, like, you know, if anyone had been listening and you you could have made some polymarket bets on some embargoed information, could have made a chunk of change, could have paid for your uh your your membership many times over, you know. I was talking to my my son Dax about these polymarket things. So for those of you who don't know, apparently now there's these websites where you can bet on anything, like whatever. The weather, yeah.
+
+[3:03] What how many times a particular person will tweet? Apparently, my son tells me, it could be a lie, because he's known to lie to me. He said that uh this person had a there was a bet on whether there would be a streak, a streaker at a game, and then someone bet on it and s and did the streaking. And I was like, wow, I guess because there's no rules in these bets, there's nothing against you know what the moral equivalent of insider trading or betting on yourself in sports would be because none of it's real. So now is the time to get rich by listening to cook paying cooking issues so that you can listen to the stuff early, and then when we tell you stuff you're not supposed to know.
+
+[3:40] Brilliant. Doing a polymarket bet on it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Brilliant.
+
+[3:44] We should all go in. What's with this food? We're never gonna make any money like caring about food. We should get into the uh nope. You know, extracting money from people in uh semi-legitimate ways business, you know what I mean?
+
+[3:55] Anyway, what would be a good example of uh like food-related things to bet on? Like will like over under on restaurant closing. Oh god, this is so horrible. Because then you could say you could prime the bet. You prime the bet.
+
+[4:08] The thing is you gotta drum up interest in a way that you still make a lot of money. You know what I mean? They used to have, I used to hate it so much because it was so mean-spirited. Which website was it that had the death watch? Oh god, that was like Eater or Grub Street back in the day, wasn't it?
+
+[4:24] It's just it was horrifying. It's like this is something that is is done by people who've never been in this business, have never had to like tell people that they don't have a job anymore. You know what I mean? It's like uh it's just such a nightmare because evil. Once people taste the death, they don't like the food, they don't like the food as much, except for at the very end.
+
+[4:41] Once you tell them it's gonna die, then they all show up. They all show up. They're like, we were supporting you all along, man. They're like, were you though? Yeah, were you?
+
+[4:50] No. I mean, look, I'm guilty too. This happens to be. Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but yeah, you know, at least we're aware of the hypocrisy at some level.
+
+[5:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that make it better? No, not anyways. Um, so yeah, so uh this is your also your first post-temperance time here, right? Indeed, it is, yeah.
+
+[5:13] Yeah, yeah. It's uh been a super fun, awesome process. Um, yeah, meeting with auction people this week to start selling everything and liquidating it out. And it's mainly liquids that you're liquidating, right? Yeah, I mean, that's part of it, but uh, like equipment, all that kind of stuff.
+
+[5:31] What do you got? What do you got going? Combi oven. Ooh. Yeah.
+
+[5:35] How newish? Uh, four and a half years old. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Something wrong with one of the gas kicks.
+
+[5:40] Always been able to figure out. Rationale? Yeah. Of course. Um rationale.
+
+[5:45] Here's a funny thing, right? How much roughly how much is that? Which which one do you have? Which size? The uh the the full size hotel pan, like half rack countertop.
+
+[5:54] Okay. Yeah, standard. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
+
+[5:56] Okay. Uh what are those things? Like 20-something? Something like that. Yeah.
+
+[6:00] 20-something, right? Yeah. So when I first started using those things, I don't know, like 2004 or something like this, right? You could never keep them working. You could not keep them working.
+
+[6:12] They just would not work. Easier to keep working now, I imagine, but still, like the gasket and it's like stuff like that because they just don't care. Yeah. First of all, like, okay, here's the here's what they used to do, right? They used to have it Germans, right?
+
+[6:25] So if the Germans, they make a manual. No offense, Germany, but like they make a manual, and the manual's like, you know, you you must keep the oven. You must keep the oven 12 feet uh 12 inches away from the electronics box, or or it will fry. And then like, you know, you build a kitchen and you put an oven right another oven or a hot side right next to the rationale and the electronics fry. And they're like, did you not read the manual?
+
+[6:48] And you're like, idiot. You know what I mean? Like you can't do that. Used to be the problem also with like all induction, all the commercial induction used to break constantly because people would want their induction over an oven and all the electronics would fry. Constantly they would break.
+
+[7:03] So hopefully they fixed that section. But then yeah, it's gaskets. Do you know who else used to have gasket problems all the time. Carpej Johnny on their ice cream machines. These people, they make the best of something so that you want it because it cooks so well or does or makes ice cream so well.
+
+[7:14] And then little things that are con you know what this is the New Year's resolution. Constant annoyance by things they just it's like $300 here, $400 there, $300 there. You know what I mean? Well, especially for something that's a gasket that should be so freaking obvious and simple to fix and do right. Right, right, right, right, right.
+
+[7:30] For as bad as we are as a country at many things, like sometimes we're like, you know what? Let's just have the gasket be a strip material that you can go down to the street, buy it, and replace it. Yep. Let's just do that instead. You know what I mean?
+
+[7:43] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, speaking of German engineering, can I get you this on another German? I I just bought so you know, for those who were listening uh last time, uh, I got rid of my big commercial oven.
+
+[7:53] I can't have a commercial oven at home anymore, right? So I needed an oven. I wanted an oven that would get up to at least 550 degrees, and it had to be gas only. Those are the rules because I don't have any power in my in my real power in my house. I'm 110 only.
+
+[8:06] So I need a full on gas slide in oven, gets up to 550. Can't be huge. I was told it can't be huge, but needs to be decent, right? So uh I got a Bosch because it goes up to 550, and I can go into the software and beep, beep, beep, beep, beep actually jack it by 35 degrees, right? Yeah.
+
+[8:27] And by the way, for those of you that are keeping track, most of these, um, I misspoke last week. Most of these ovens use as their sensor a resistance sensor. So if you look in the back of an oven, you see that little stick sticking out of the back of it that's going through the insulation on the back wall of your oven. That's a resistance sensor, not a thermocouple. So, like, you know, the the the gas pilot thing, that's a thermocouple, but the the thing that you're actually measuring the temperature with is resistant things, and it's PT, which I don't know, positive temperature, I guess that stands for.
+
+[8:54] I don't know. Uh 1,000, meaning that at the at freezing, it the resistance of that thing is supposed to be a thousand ohms, 1,000 ohms, which means you can put a resistor in series, uh, sorry, in parallel with it, thereby reducing the resistance, thereby making the oven think that it is colder than it is, thereby being able to jack the temperature. So I also chose this oven, this Bosch, because it has a self-cleaning function. And what that means is is that before anything burns down, it can actually get up to like 900 degrees, right? That's read between the lines on on like linguistically on what that means.
+
+[9:32] What it means is if it has a self-clean, it means that for at least short periods of time, this oven can get up to 900 degrees without permanent damage. I'm like, okay. So I know that it works with a resistor. I haven't, by the way, I swear to, I swear, five stacks of Bibles. I have not modified the resistor yet.
+
+[9:50] Because it uses a non-standard uh connector. And I need it until the warranty is literally up in two years, I do not want to cut the wires on the on the thing and splice in. The goal is to splice a resistor in. And by the way, for those of you that are doing this, if you want to take an oven that has a PT 1000 sensor in it, don't do this, and definitely don't blame me for it, right? But if you want to take it and make it so that when your oven reads 550 Fahrenheit, it's actually at 650 Fahrenheit.
+
+[10:19] The answer is is to put in parallel with that resistor. So you splice another set of wires onto it and in parallel, 24k ohms, 24k kilo ohms, right? 24,000 ohms. Doing that will drop the resistance just enough for the oven to think that it's 600, say that it's 550 degrees when it's actually at 650 degrees, which is nice, right? But I would have to install a little switch, like a little like hot rod switch, because the temperatures aren't like linear, so it's not like it's always 100 degrees higher.
+
+[10:51] That's not how it works, right? So then you would have I would have to make a whole new table, and anyone who's actually set in the oven, I'd be like, Wow, when you're you know what I mean? Like I just couldn't, I couldn't bring myself to do it. Yeah. But for those of you who want to do it, that's how you do it.
+
+[11:06] Um one of our listeners is a Bosch dealer, apparently, Jameson. Yeah. Yeah. Well, okay, Jameson, how about this? I open up, first of all, do you know how for those of you who are my age, which you know, what are they, three of you?
+
+[11:18] Anyway, for those of you that are my age, uh, when I grew up, that it was the the golden era of hating on American car manufacturers, right? Because we were well renowned for doing things like uh people would open up the door panels of like their 74 like Chevy, and there'd be like a beer can in it because like you know, like no one was controlling anything on the line, fit and finish was sloppy. It was like, for as much as I love like 70s cars, and I guess it was late 70s, really, people like in the nadir of of that kind of situation. So I open up the back of my Bosch because I want to see how it works. Get this.
+
+[11:56] They did not screw any of the safety grounds in at all. So the electronics board is sitting there floating on on uh on a bunch of standoffs off the back of the oven, and it's only got three screws instead of four holding the uh the clips down. One of the the one that's missing is the safety ground. And the safety ground from the front board coming through over, also not connected. So there's two loose safety grounds.
+
+[12:22] Not only are they not grounded, but they're just flapping around inside of the oven. I was like, what the hell is this? And then out of the 30 screws that I took out, two of them had already been stripped before I and I was like, don't you have like some sort of torques limiting like, you know, driver? Like, isn't there someone not drunk who's like putting the the safety grounds in? Anyway, uh, I'll let you guys know how it works.
+
+[12:49] But so far, so good. See what see what they had to see what uh Jameson has has to say about that. I'm interested in hearing. Yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[12:56] So they said this a couple days ago, so I haven't heard from them. Yeah, all right. All right. I mean, look, I'm not unpleased with it as an item, right? I'm just telling you like, you know, what I found when I opened up the back of it, right?
+
+[13:08] Uh the other thing I did, and this has been done by other people before, is I have an extra lid from my coon recon pressure cooker. And so uh it's old, it's kind of beat up. So I'm gonna, and again, I'm not that first person to do this, but I'm gonna put a uh a barbed fitting into it with a silicone tube so I can feed steam directly from the pressure cooker along with a pinch tube, a pinch clamp in for bread and see whether I can make a steam oven. I'm also gonna modify my brevel smart oven for steam injection. Anyway, I'll let you guys know how that works.
+
+[13:38] It's I will some I have a video of me doing it. I will post to you how, at least with this Bosch, you know, I don't, you know, your results may vary, how you can bit bend a quarter inch I use stainless tube and feed it into the oven vent from the front without it looking like you've modified the oven without drilling any holes and in a completely reversible way. But anyway, so uh Jack, I know you're not here forever, so what do you what do you got? So uh went to uh a restaurant with uh with our good friend who's not here right now. And uh it was a he's he means it was a chef that that a chef that we know, right?
+
+[14:19] All right, okay just to continue the streak of this happening with Nastasia. Oh yeah. Um and he texts something along the lines of like, wear big pants, come hungry, got so much like you know, like really going above and beyond with like the texts suggesting like you know. You're gonna get blown out. You're gonna get blown out.
+
+[14:42] Which like, you know, you actually appreciate because you don't want to over order, you know. It's like okay, that's and and so I gear on like that's what we're up for. Right, because the worst is when you order a lot and they blow you out on top, and then you just can't even finish it all, and then it's just a waste, and then you have to tip infinity off of the bill. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[14:59] Oh, yeah, poor me. Yeah, I mean me, me, me. Yeah, anyway. I know. First world problems, right?
+
+[15:04] Anyway, so so we go and we we order, you know, a bunch of stuff with that in mind. What do you think happens? Full boat. You got charged. Full boat.
+
+[15:16] Full boat. But not even uh like no hello, no anything. And and again, to be clear, I don't care. I'm not happy to go out and have a meal. Doesn't sound like you don't care.
+
+[15:31] You know who you know who really cared. Oh stash. You know who really cares. Yeah, stats for sure. Listen.
+
+[15:36] Yeah, yeah. I I was actually I was so happy. I was I was laughing so hard I was crying. And the whole meal I kept saying. Well, here's the thing.
+
+[15:45] I kept saying, please, God, please let it be a full boat. Oh please. Because I needed to watch her just, you know. Yeah, yeah. For those of you, for those of you that don't know, I mean, I don't know, maybe not everyone knows it.
+
+[15:56] So full full boat is when you get charged the full check amount of everything that is sent to you. Whether and full, like full, full boat is whether you ordered it or not. If they come up and suggest some stuff after you've been invited in and you still get charged for it, mew full boat, you're getting charged, baby, right? Now, I believe in my heart that it is only appropriate to do that to people who are paying on company credit cards. Right?
+
+[16:23] So if someone comes in with a company credit card and they're trying to help you out as a restaurateur or bar owner, right? In fact, I've done that before. People come in, I'm like, yo, who's paying? You or your company? And if it's a company, same, you know what I mean?
+
+[16:39] Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? But like, when you guys are showing up, it's it's like people, people out here who who have businesses, don't act all excited for someone to come in and then full charge them on everything. Don't just don't do it. But not even that.
+
+[16:54] You can be excited, but when you're like, wear big pants. I'm getting like, you know, don't do that, don't do that. That's just weird. Yeah. Be like, oh, so happy you're coming in.
+
+[17:04] Fine. You know what I mean? So so they come the funniest part was they come to the poor server who has no idea about anything going on in the background, and Stas is just you know, hammering. And um, you know, he comes over and he's like, so anybody want to see a dessert menu? Or I guess you're doing liquid dessert.
+
+[17:22] Oh, just liquid uh just looks at him and goes, Okay, check, please. Here's here's the thing. What I love about Nastasia, and I'm sh I can picture myself being at this meal, is you guys don't know whether you're gonna get charged yet. And yet somehow she is pre-ruined the meal for herself, made it hilarious for you, but pre-ruined the meal for herself by sitting there stewing on it, right? Yes, thereby creating, I'm sure some sort of adversarial relation between you and the server, right?
+
+[18:01] Which makes it even more uncomfortable and worse, which I appreciate. You know what I mean? And uh, okay, listen. So here's a question for you. Like, it is is it possible?
+
+[18:12] I'm not saying I'm just as super benefit of the doubt here. Is it possible? Because this has happened to me before, where the message on comp didn't come through. Like the person who thinks they're gonna comp you isn't in the house then, and the message on the comp didn't make it through because maybe it got put through as a PX on the res, but not that it was gonna be comp. This is how John back to the stuff.
+
+[18:35] Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that's definitely what happened. Or he or the chef might have not even been there. Something might have come up.
+
+[18:42] Like break there's a million reasons why again, the the the the star of the story for me is just watching nostalgia. Like I I had so much fun with the whole thing. You know, and then this is three times in a row with her and uh taking me out to things. So I hope it just continues forever. Is there any is there any friends of the show that want to invite us out and charge them to dinner and charge them double?
+
+[19:03] Please, yeah, please, please charge us more actually. I don't know how your bank account can sustain it, but hey, I'm glad that you're uh glad that you're enjoying it. The um how was the food though? Um it was it was good. Yeah.
+
+[19:17] It was good, it was good. Uh all right. Yeah, yeah. That's good. Um.
+
+[19:23] Anyway. Yeah, that's that. You know who we should have on the show whose restaurants really good out here? Carmichael. Paul Carmichael.
+
+[19:30] Yeah. We should have him on. We're supposed to. Oh. With Dennis.
+
+[19:37] Okay, when's that happening? Let me I'll reach out to him right now. So I get this. I go to I go to their restaurant because I had to borrow liquid nitrogen, because T.W. Smith, our liquid nitrogen provider, the chefs is left and right.
+
+[19:46] Right. So what happens is I go there to get liquid nitrogen. And people, listen to me. If you're the if you're doing this, if you have liquid nitrogen, someone sold them on buying the liquid nitrogen takeoff hose, which looks like uh it looks remember Dr. Octopus from the Spider-Man?
+
+[20:05] It looks like like a giant Dr. Octopus arm. And that's how they get liquid nitrogen out of their tank. And A, it's unwieldy, B, it just steals all of your liquid nitrogen. I still have to make him a uh a takeoff.
+
+[20:16] Go. I reinstated you can the blog, the old cooking issues blog is back up, and on that you can look up how to make a liquid nitrogen takeoff that is as long as you can sweat basic copper together, or you know a plumber or someone who can do basic like copper sweating with plumbing, you can make your takeoff. It's much smaller, it's much better. You could do it for like thirty dollars, something like this. Anyway, uh so yeah, gotta gotta gotta have gotta have him on.
+
+[20:45] Um, no, that was that was my That's it, man. My contribution. Sounds like you had a solidly mid, very expensive meal. Was the ambiance nice again, like I said, worth every dollar for me. Yeah.
+
+[21:02] Uh okay, okay, okay. Go back and let's say you were just having this meal with a normal well, no normal anymore. Yeah, you were having this meal with someone who wasn't nostalgia. Okay. You know what I mean?
+
+[21:18] Like you were having a category of person. Yeah, a different category of person. Like I don't know, like even someone who is like a Polski person. Like, would it have been what do you Aaron Polski, friend of the show from LA? That's just the first name that came to my head.
+
+[21:31] All right. So what what do you what do you what do you think? What what would you have enjoyed the meal? Uh yeah. At the price charged.
+
+[21:39] No, well, we're in LA, right? So I mean, no, the price charged is rarely uh feels good. But uh you find that LA is not a good value proposition for food and fine dining. Rarely. And that's no fault of the proprietors.
+
+[21:54] I mean, like, that's just the environment we're in. So, you know, that is what it is. It was uh it was fine. It was in West Hollywood. I'll say this.
+
+[22:02] It was in West Hollywood, it was very much a West Hollywood meal. What does that mean? I have no idea what that means. Well, you know, the kind of people that are the West Side's just different in LA. It's you know different different worse, different better.
+
+[22:16] Yeah. All right, different worse. Worse. Of course, worse, worse, worse. It's not you know, it's not necessarily like, yeah, that's not where my favorite places are.
+
+[22:23] You get a lot more sort of Kardashian ish looking clientele, right? So there's like that whole energy. Um so when Randy Newman says he loves LA, is he talking about the West? Who knows what he's saying? Maybe Oh, Randy Newman.
+
+[22:46] Yeah, he means Louisiana, actually. No, no. Randy Newman, uh listen, the thing is is that like uh he might love LA, but you know, he famously writes songs that about things he doesn't believe in. For instance, he has nothing against short people. So for those of you who don't know who Randy Newman probably best known to younger people for writing like all the Toy Story things and you know the music for that, and like is a great music writer.
+
+[23:09] But in the 70s, all the way through the 80s, I love LA was in the 80s, but his big hit in the 70s was a song called Short People Have No Reason to Live. And y obviously you can't write a song like that nowadays, but it was supposed to be the opposite of that. It was like just dumb. It was like choosing a characteristic and then making a song of it. So it was it was about being the opposite of that, right?
+
+[23:32] You remember this song, right, Joe? I do. Yeah. Yeah. I still sing it sometimes in my head.
+
+[23:37] As soon as I start singing it, my wife is like, You must stop now. Like, okay. Anyway, uh Randy Newman. So whatever I think of LA and whether or not you know it's good or bad, all I have is a picture of him in a convertible screaming he loves LA from the video in the 80s. Anyways, all right.
+
+[23:54] Uh Quinn, what do you got for me? Uh let's see. Uh Friday, we made our another rendition out of our risotto style oats, which I know annoy you, but there was quite good. What is that even what does that mean again? Rizzotto style?
+
+[24:13] Does that just mean oats and cheese? Well, actually, we did we but are you using cut steel cuts? The whole group. Oh, okay. Yeah, we cooked them in a stock, reducing it, and then this time I did finish toward the end, because they took longer to cook with some broken rice to get the texture back to sort of creaminess instead of using a lot of cheese.
+
+[24:44] Why uh why rice and not oats? They break real easy. I didn't have broken oats at the time. Okay. Oats, I love oats actually.
+
+[24:56] Um, but um were they were they hulled? Uh just as old groats. Yeah. Um finished with saffron. Oh.
+
+[25:10] Yeah. Joe's not gonna let you forget. So you can catch that. You didn't feel the cloud go over your house, you didn't feel the shade. Well, it wasn't saffron uh flavored.
+
+[25:30] Uh hey, anyone out there who has uh who wants to be nice to Quinn, just you know, contact uh Patreon. Someone send this, someone send this guy on Amazon or you know, by some form of transport, some actual Iranian saffron to test against his British Columbian saffron. We can we can finally have this over and done with. Um but now uh oats are interesting as compared to rice, because rice is most rice, is one of the most vitreous of uh grains that which is why you you can use them to clean out grinders, right? So by the way, don't clean your coffee grinder with regular rice, it's too hard.
+
+[26:15] You can use uh minute rice, pre-cooked rice, because it's already been cooked somewhat and it shatters. But uh coffee grinders are this is why have any of you guys ever with your coffee grinder had a problem with too light a roast, so you get a really light roast and your coffee grinder craps out. So um brevel coffee grinders, like the Breville Oracle sometimes has a problem with very light roasts because uh it's got a clutch. The reason being that um people want to preserve the motors and the burrs in case a rock gets into or a foreign object gets into the coffee. And so a lot of coffee grinders will set their, will set like a clutch such that as soon as it becomes too difficult to grind, it won't grind anymore.
+
+[26:56] Problem being that uh when you roast coffee, the higher you roast it, the darker you roast it, the more it expands during the pyrolysis program. So it's constantly losing weight, but the easier the more friable it becomes. So very light roasts are very hard for grinders to grind properly. So uh, short story, long story short, sorry, short story long. If you use regular rice to clean some grinders, you can cause them problems.
+
+[27:23] Uh and you know, I guess potentially even damage them. So minute rice, but in a flour grinder, they can take it. So that's what you use to grind it because they're very, very vitreous. Oats, on the other hand, are smear testrophes. They're so soft.
+
+[27:35] Like if you take an oat groat and just put it between your teeth, uh, and I always recommend any time you get a new grain, especially on wheat, and you really want to get a feel for how hard it is, which is not the same as its protein content, but how vitreous it is. Just chew a couple pieces. I like you can actually learn a lot by just taking a couple of pieces of wheat or whatever grain you're gonna work with and chewing on it. When you chew oats, they're just like they're gone. You know what I mean?
+
+[27:58] They're super soft, which is why they're hard to grind effectively, which is why it's difficult to make a fine oat flour using a mill. I mean, I haven't tried it in a vita prep. Uh instead, I usually flake out. So, you know, I'm guessing that it's gonna make it relatively soft with your quote unquote risotto style thing. Did it become relatively soft or can you maintain the center firmness?
+
+[28:24] Um, I mean, yeah, we we cooked it until it was relatively soft. My goal is to actually make sort of a multi-green, creamy porridge eventually. Because I think the like slightly different flavors and textures is gonna be interesting. Yeah, I love fresh oats. There's nothing I think everyone should flake their own oats.
+
+[28:44] Freshly flaked oats, the smell of just flaking them by itself is intoxicating. It's like then when you open it. When you open up the oat container, the ones that are pre-flaked, you're just like a lot of those are pre-steamed. Horror. Horror.
+
+[29:00] The horror. What were we saying, Quinn? Speaking of milling, we also did mill some wheat because I've gotten several uh baking implements for Christmas. So I actually got something, I think you got something similar. It's um the little perfect cube loaf pan.
+
+[29:21] Didn't you get one of those for your rhyme bread experiments? Uh they weren't cubes, they were still rectangles, but they were short pullmins and not like uh and not this the old ones I used to have wouldn't fit in my standard oven because they're like the length of a full sheet tray and they have the big sliders over the top because they were you know what the FCI French Culinary Institute used to use to do their big Pullman loaves. Um yeah, I don't own a cube. Right now I have two mini rectangles because they they're the biggest thing that will fit in the my pressure cooker. Um but what I don't like about them is they had holes at the bottom to like Yeah, mine's still there too.
+
+[30:01] Yeah, why? What the hell? They I they they they say it's a feature, but I'm sure it's a manufacturing thing. I'm sure they have it there to help their manufacturing, like to punch off the dyes or something, but it's like I wish it wasn't there. You know?
+
+[30:13] It's like especially when you're full steaming it. So what were you cooking in your Pullman pan? Okay, I did make my sort of uh standard for me sandwich bread, which is like some fresh flour, some uh hydrated starch, you know, like a chang technique for uh just to make the texture a little easier to work with. And then I took extra dough, because obviously the perfect uh cube pan is pretty small. And then I also got a baguette tree for Christmas.
+
+[30:55] So it's like three uh troughs of metal, and they're like it's like a wire mesh. Yeah, yeah, I've seen them, I never used them. Uh I've never since is true. I mean, it's been probably twenty-five years since I've ever tried to do the baguette thing, and there was so little information out there. I've never taken it on as a thing because that's just not the kind of bread I bake.
+
+[31:26] I like baguettes though. I mean, baguette's good product. Delicious. Yeah, good product. It's not the style of stuff I make, but good product.
+
+[31:33] Oh, by the way, speaking of having a Pullman style loaf pan, I I do recommend the s people trying that pressure cooked rye bread. I've been eating through the massive amount of it that I made before, but the pressure cooked uh Vesphalian pumper nickel, good. Real good. Real good. You know what I mean?
+
+[31:56] Yeah, it was tasty. Real good. Yeah. Yeah. Uh and it lasts forever.
+
+[32:00] You know what I mean? I I I slice uh well, so I sliced it down thin. Here's the issue with rye bread is that if you allow it to go sour, which a lot of people do, right? It's actually gonna get less brown over the long cook, right? Because it the pH has been shifted.
+
+[32:18] I don't think well, I don't know, it could go either way, because it's not really anyway, whatever. But uh it if you don't allow there to be some souring of it, it will mold quickly, right? But if you allow it, one of the reasons that a lot of these like old school rye last a long time is they're quite sour. And so I don't think they mold as quickly. Uh but anyway, I highly recommend it.
+
+[32:39] And uh, you know, if you're gonna do it. What kind of mold or got? Oh, no, I don't think so. Although I do like that. It's a good, I like a I like a the the crazy crazy, crazy people's mold.
+
+[32:48] But uh no, it's just like regular like kitchen mold. I think it's like because I don't know. It just things tend to mold fast in my kitchen if they don't get put away. You know what I mean? Like if like if you leave stuff out in my kitchen, it tends to mold quickly.
+
+[33:02] There was an did we talk about this? There's an interesting study. I'm basically saying that I'm moldy. There's an interesting study uh that um sourdough from a microbiome standpoint like closely resembles its baker. So like and and I'm not sure whether or not like I don't think they were clear on whether it's a give and take.
+
+[33:26] So like you handle the same bread and culture in the same kitchen every day. So you like the stuff that is all over you becomes the stuff that was all over the bread. Whether the bread is because of who you are, whether you all sync up, whether it like or if there's any sort of like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Sounds like some yeah.
+
+[33:49] You know, interesting. It is interesting though, right? A lot of philosophy there. Yeah, like are you like it? I'm sure it's a give and take, right?
+
+[33:55] I'm sure you're getting shifted by the fact that you're working with this with this culture every day. And I'm sure the culture is getting shifted, and I'm sure the room is getting shifted. So I, you know, whether or not it's true or false, because I don't know what anyone's done the study, you know, remember I was talking to the Salamaria B. Lacy guys, you know, like a decade or so ago when they were switching more than a decade, probably, when they were switching their uh production from New York to New Jersey, and they were like, we're waiting for like a year or two to get our aging room in Jersey stabilized so that the microbiome of our aging room is gonna make it this sausage the same, right? Or you I would talk to um Sam Edwards from Edwards uh Edwards um uh not Edwards Age Meats, but uh um the ham company out of Surrey.
+
+[34:35] Yeah. And Sam was like, uh, yeah, he's like, he's like, you could hand me a ham from I forget what it was at the time, I think the three different uh aging rooms that he was gonna that he was using, and he's like, I could tell you which room it was in. And some of it is probably, you know, non-micro microbiome related stuff, like temperature and relative humidity, but some of it's gotta be microbiome-related stuff. So it's it's interesting how you know, things. It's why I always think it's funny when people are like, uh, I have a or like someone's like, I went into the pyramids and I found uh some bread, and we made a sourdough from this bread, so it's the same culture that uh that the Egyptian pharaohs use.
+
+[35:16] No, it's not, man. You can't keep a culture the same for like for like two weeks in your own house. How are you gonna keep it for thousands of years, right? There's no there's no such thing as continuity of people spend their entire lives trying to make strains of yeasts yeast. Like look at the Y East people, you know what I mean?
+
+[35:37] Keeping it the same, consistent, yeah, keeping it consistent. So like you can keep your climate, your zone, your area consistent. That's why the Lambic people don't clean anything, right? Because they're trying to keep consistency by keeping the place the same all the time. You know what I mean?
+
+[35:50] Anyway, it's an interesting idea. Uh how we resemble our foods. Our foods. Uh all right. Uh by the way, John, I cut you off in the middle of saying you were selling your rationale.
+
+[36:04] Oh, yeah, to circle back to that. Um, yeah, no, the rationale, a lot of refrigeration equipment. If anyone in New York City's looking for stuff, reach out. Um but yeah, I don't know. You know, it's not a fun process going through there, like being back in the space to throw all the crap out that's gone moldy and funky and smells terrible and it's freezing in there.
+
+[36:27] Oh God. Who's the auctioneer? Uh shopping around for some bits. Metro auction is what I'm looking at right now, but we'll see who else. I wonder who they are.
+
+[36:35] That they must be relatively it used to only be like three or four people would run the auction. That's what he was saying. Yeah. Yeah. And I used to go, I used to go to them all the time.
+
+[36:43] I mean, I've said this on the air many times, but I'll say it again. It used to be that I forget which day of the week it was. Uh Monday or Tuesday. There was one day the New York Times had auction listings in the classified section. So this is weird, people, but when you used to want a job, or if you needed to buy something, you bought the New York Times, if you live in New York, and you opened it to the classified section, and people were like, We're looking for a stenographer or whatever.
+
+[37:07] You know what I mean? But then one day a week they would be like, Here are the upcoming auctions for the week. And every week I would go get the paper and stare at it because it would wouldn't just tell you I mean, on the internet now you can have all the information, but it would say, Here's the rest, here's they wouldn't even sometimes say with the restaurant. They'd be like, well appointed Italian restaurant. And then they the auctions would always take place in the restaurant.
+
+[37:29] And so they would give a date and a time and the buyer's premium. So like whatever you pay, you had to pay over the, you know, 15%, let's say over it. And you would have to get it out that day because no one wants to wait around and you have to pay in cash. So it's like they would say what they had listed. So I'd be like, if you're looking for X, Y, or Z, they would only list the big stuff.
+
+[37:50] Yeah. You know what I mean? And then you would go and you would wait through it, and there would always be three or four. I remember this one guy, Avi, there'd be three or four, you know, Michael Diamodio was one of the one of the auctioneers. You would go there, the auctioneers were always pissed.
+
+[38:05] They were always pissed, not pissed drunk, pissed angry, because they you no one would ever bid what they wanted, and they're making money off the premium. So they would sit there and they go crazy yelling at people, like you know what I mean? Anyway. So you would go there and you would have to wait until your item came up, and then you could be waiting all day. And then if your item, if there was anyone there who was an actual equipment dealer and they wanted it because they needed one in their shop or they know they needed to sell someone, you were toast.
+
+[38:31] But then if they didn't, then it's just you and the other knucklehead who's bidding for their own restaurant or their own place. Stuff was free. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's crazy.
+
+[38:40] It's crazy. I don't know. Yeah, no, now it's all done online. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[38:43] Yeah. No guarantees either. Yeah. No guarantees. As is, where is.
+
+[38:48] You know what I mean? Oh my God. Oh. And it was fun. You could get a lot of stuff.
+
+[38:53] That's that's why I got all of my old stuff. My my two-door deli case, my deep fryer, my garlic. School New York stuff. I had um some guy coming after we knew we were closing for a linen company comes in. You guys looking for linens, like we don't do contracts if you don't want to, and like just all this old school New York stuff.
+
+[39:11] Like, how does this I've been doing this for 48 years? How are you still like I don't know, just all yeah? I just like loved it. Yeah, it was great. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[39:18] Doesn't exist anymore. Yeah. No. Auctions. Yeah.
+
+[39:21] But are you doing it still a live auction? Online. Oh, online. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[39:25] That's how they all seem to do it. Yeah, no, not the same. But I used to do machine shop auctions and restaurant auctions. Those are the two kind of auctions I went to. Yeah.
+
+[39:34] Those are restaurant auctions are always a little depressing because the restaurant tour is all usually there. Yeah. And most of the time they close in not because someone wanted to. And also for those of you that were I mean, it doesn't matter. You can't go back in time.
+
+[39:48] If you invented a time machine, this isn't what you'd be doing with it with your information. But like they would never have the like the high ticket small items would all get picked up by the chef and taken. So you would never get like a Vitamix or anything like that. That stuff's not that's that stuff's not in the auction. Yeah.
+
+[40:04] You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so I'm just dealing with that and then you know, navigating unemployment and trying to find the next job. And it's uh, yeah, I don't know, challenging finding open positions, you know, for what I'm looking for, like executive chef or CDC or things like that.
+
+[40:21] It's many fewer opportunities. So yeah, more people competing for them. And yeah. Oh, sweet. Yeah, great.
+
+[40:28] It's great. And I was dealing with the unemployment office, and uh there was some issues with my account that three people said I literally don't understand what's going on. So that was great too. Nice. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[40:38] Yeah. These are people who deal with the bureaucracy every day. If they are the bureaucracy and they don't understand. Yeah, that was great. Yeah.
+
+[40:45] BG. So when I got my passport changed recently, because it expired, when I was a little kid, they put on my passport, because I'm I'm David Eugene Arnold the Third, right? They put on my passport the three. And the the issue is obviously this was before computers and computerized systems were a thing, right? So then somebody types it into the computer with a three, so then the entire United States government thinks that my last name is Arnold Space III.
+
+[41:22] And then most people, when you're at airports, can deal with the fact that your name isn't in fact Arnold Space III. You know what I mean? But there's a good chunk of people who are so concrete that they can't overlook it. They can't overlook it. So then, and by the way, if you go on the passport website, the United States Passport website, there is no, there is no section.
+
+[41:49] There's a section for we made a mistake on your passport that you just got. There is a I want to renew my passport with no change. There is a you have changed your name because whatever reason, and you there is no this has always been messed up, and you finally want to deal with it button. Yeah. And there there is no I have the same thing with my documentation.
+
+[42:11] Yeah, there there is also no, I have a different problem button. You know, you know what I mean? Like, like just there's no catch-all button. You know how like at the at the end of a phone menu, it's supposed to be any other issue. Yeah.
+
+[42:25] Stay on the line. You know what I mean? There's there's none of that. So yeah. So then I had then I had just I went to the passport office.
+
+[42:33] I I I made all the different kinds of appointments. I filled out every kind of form. Just went. Just went. I was like, which stack of forms do you want?
+
+[42:40] And they're like, I don't know. And like, here's a story. They're like, what do you mean your name's not that? I'm like, my name's not Arnold I I I. Finally, someone had mercy on me and changed it.
+
+[42:51] Nice. They're like, Do you have your birth certificate? I'm like, no. Here's my driver's license. Here's my old passport.
+
+[42:56] Here's me. Yeah. You know what I mean? Here's my social security card. Here's my you know what I mean?
+
+[43:01] It's like a nightmare. It's a nightmare. Democracy. I hate it. Listen.
+
+[43:06] I mean, everyone knows this now. Don't ever let the computer have the wrong name because no one can get around it anymore. It's so funny. Anyway, so hopefully they straighten that out. Yeah.
+
+[43:16] Yeah. They did, yeah, yeah, but it's just a nightmare. Are you guys auctioning the wine or no? I don't know yet. I don't think we have that much left.
+
+[43:23] We were keeping orders pretty tight towards the end, anyways. And we're doing like a staff party on Saturday. So nice and cold. Who cares if you get complaints? Yeah.
+
+[43:34] Not me, exactly. God, I hope you're still living up there, yeah. Oh. Oh, now that it's over, what was what was going on? Were they constant complainers?
+
+[43:43] Yeah, constant complainers. Um, they would come down after I left and intimidate the staff, say that we're gonna call the cops on you guys, all this stuff. I went up into the What time did you close? Uh midnight, but we'd stop seating people at 11. Yeah, okay.
+
+[43:58] All right, yeah. And P.S, not that loud. Not that loud. Went up into their apartment with a decibel meter. We were like two decibels over.
+
+[44:06] The owner, get this, Dave. He took the speakers down, bought new ones, and reinstalled them so they weren't in the ceiling doing that just to make it better. Like what restaurant owner do you know that would ever do that? No. Never.
+
+[44:17] No. Deal with it. You're living above a restaurant in New York City. Yes. And it had been a restaurant for a long time.
+
+[44:23] Yeah. So much pent-up anger about this. Listen, here's the thing. This is like what happened to me in college where this, he's still a bad person. He's this is the only person I'll dox.
+
+[44:33] Randy Scott, he's a math professor at NYU, at least was last time I checked. He took the room above the practice room at my dorm in college, right? So there was a practice room where everyone who was playing in a band in our dorm building, we all used this one music pla you know, practice room. So I had my amp there. My I had 20 V cabs, which you know, for those of you who know it, I had 20 EV cabs and a custom, you know, one of those like Eddie Munster, like they're vinyl, like they're they look like a couch custom with a K amp, like old school.
+
+[45:08] Big, big bass amp. Uh there's a there's a kid in there. Uh, you know, the other people had some other stuff. You know, guitarists would bring their own small amps, right? Unless some people, so a couple people had a big fender, they would bring it.
+
+[45:21] So everyone knows the music room is there. Everybody, right? So when when it comes up, there's a single above it, right? So when the housing, the way it works there is you're not assigned a house. You draw a lot and you choose what what space you want.
+
+[45:37] He was not last. Okay. Because I was there for the draw. This is not a theory, right? He was not anywhere near last, right?
+
+[45:44] He chose the room directly above the music room and then got mad that music was playing in. And by the way, we're not playing at night. You know what I mean? And he went down. We know it was him.
+
+[45:59] He went down, took a drumstick that someone had left on the set of kids, and and and massively punctured all my 15 inch Wolfert Cones. What an ass. Yeah. Yeah. And guess guess who didn't have the money to fix that right away?
+
+[46:14] This guy. Also, like there were nice cones, dude. Like I bought like a nice twin EV cab, like used, you know what I mean? Like messed up. Messed up.
+
+[46:23] Not cool. So if you move into New York and you move above a restaurant, guess what? You have moved above a restaurant. Deal with it. You know what I mean?
+
+[46:36] Like, look, there's unreasonable. People are unreasonable. I get it. Like, you know what I mean? Like, like some restaurants are unreasonable.
+
+[46:42] But if the restaurant, if you go into the restaurant and that restaurant is behaving as though it's a restaurant you would like to be in when you are eating. Yeah. You need music. There's gonna be noise. Yeah.
+
+[46:57] Yeah. This is why the the ultimate in New York is when you can do the restaurant or bar and take the apartment above it. Like if you have that kind of cash, and like anyone who has that set up, they are gold. You know what I mean? Because they'll like either they'll rent it to someone they know like a little bit cheaper or like whatever, but like it is what it is.
+
+[47:15] So anytime someone's like, I not only have the restaurant, I've got the apartment above, you're like, oh amazing. You know what I mean? Yeah. Or like, or the other one is where there's like second floor business above the restaurant, you're like, you know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[47:32] Love it. Yeah, but hold, we got 12 and a half minutes left. Let's get to some questions. All right. Davis writes in uh what do you reach for when you're looking to add astringency uh and or dryness to a beverage?
+
+[47:45] Are tannins the only way of adding dryness? Uh well, if you speak about adding tiny, usually when someone adds quote unquote straight tannins, they're adding like wood dust or like chummed up like grape skins. I don't typically do that, but that's probably not what you mean. Anyway, in the process of developing low ABV uh sipping drinks, um I've expanded my uh organ of extracts with a range of organ organoleptic sensations, uh like mala, capsation, menthol, and bitterance. Uh right now I've been using black walnut and green pine cone extracts, so that's resin and or bitterness and plus color uh um respectively.
+
+[48:18] Uh but I'm looking to diversify flavor, sensations. Curious, curious what your favorite uh things for this are. So uh in general in drinks, unless it's a very specific drink, I try, I mean, spice capsation, like whatever. It works well in certain kind of drinks, like people like uh and like in small amounts with a lot of very small amounts with a lot of drinks, it works well, right? So, like anything that is good with like a ginger ale or anything that is good with like uh stone fruit likes not to be spicy, but like a little bit, a little little bit.
+
+[48:48] Like so for we have our our one that's peaches and apricots and bourbon, there's like just a hint of of uh capsation in it, uh, which pops the fruit note without me without you even thinking this is spicy, right? Um I tend I tend I love mala, you know, mala, which is like the you know, numbing session. What do you how would you actually describe Sichuan? Pepper. Like the it's like a motion right well I mean yeah I mean that's what those that's what those people say who call it like 50 hertz or whatever like do people still test batteries with their tongues that's always kind of what I think yeah yeah I do yeah yeah nine volts though yeah such a crappy battery yeah it does the nine volt is the worst of all batteries and what's worse is the recharge the old rechargeable nine volts were even worse than the nine volts it's just so because it the cells are so tiny it's just a bunch of 1.5 volt cells tiny 1.5 volt cells like lined up into that weird little brick and like you know they're good for smoke detectors and like multimeters and nothing else I love them really yeah I really do they feel my DIs and you know they taste great I like I love the taste it reminds me of the electric buzz button this Japanese of nine volt batteries I I honestly I I really enjoy it sticking your tongue on a nine volt I don't mind it I don't I've been electrocuted many times and I mean I don't prefer to do it but I don't know right that seems pretty comparable.
+
+[50:18] Yeah which is interesting because nine volt batteries are DC right so like uh there's that theory that uh that I've I've mentioned how I don't believe it where it's like people are like oh the it's similar it it comes in in waves at a frequency like 50 50 hertz like the the the electrical you know thing of of mala of Sichuan like buttons and whatnot and I'm like you know um let me guess let me guess this research was done in a country that has uh AC power at 50 hertz. You know what I mean? Like it's like, you know, I'm sure if they did that in this country. And really good grounding. Yeah, yeah, right.
+
+[50:54] I'm sure in this country it would be uh oh man, going back to uh my aunt for one second, Joe, you'll remember remember what it used to be like when uh stuff wasn't grounded right and you get blown back off of equipment. Oh my god, dude and you're you're you're you're you're you're you're tube amp and you'd go touch your phone. Yeah what yeah I remember like you walk up you'd have your like you you'd have your instrument like if you rarely did you have it so sometimes you would do it so that if you touch something and your instrument the same be like boom or like if you like walk up and like touch your amp boom and you get blown back but it's so disconcerting dude. Uh I think that's a thing of the past, right? Yeah no I mean but all my amps are exactly like that.
+
+[51:37] They're all two prong you know they're still that old two prong and they're great. Yeah they can float quite a voltage on those things. Worst I've ever been um fire caught fire a couple times my amp my tubes. Really? Mm-hmm oh man it's so funny people now make do you still buying like new old stock or the people are making them new again right um yeah new old stock I do I get hit up by who's this guy um some I get emails all the time about new tubes that come in especially the Russian ones um and also he's also now selling tran the transformers from the old refrigerators that are now being put into circuits oh man they supposedly are so sought after and super expensive.
+
+[52:19] And heavy as hell. Yeah yeah a lot of iron uh the the most I've ever gotten tagged with is I think 400 volts from an oscilloscope that I was working on. Reached in, touched the wrong thing. Bo. Oh man.
+
+[52:34] I'm so lucky I'm not dead. Um it's not the watts it'll kill you. Yeah, it's uh yeah, as my dad always said, uh Volt Shock and Ampere's fry. That's what he'd say. Which is true.
+
+[52:47] Which is why uh, you know, you ever I never talked about it on air, I don't think, but I we thought we were gonna do a series of videos that was all reviewing old restaurant, like not restaurant, old cooking equipment. So for instance, I have like an old potato chip maker that it just sits there, slices and fries potatoes. It's a potato chip robot. And it actually makes pretty good potato chips when it's working, but I never did the video. The other one is they make one that like you you insert like prongs into hot dogs and it just puts electricity through the hot dog and and and fries them up like like an electric chair for hot dogs.
+
+[53:26] And uh, yeah. And another was one that like makes and boils and cooks bagels. Yeah. But then I think I finally got rid of all that stuff because I was like, I'm never gonna never gonna do these videos. But it's kind of a fun idea, right?
+
+[53:39] Yeah. Anyways. Um, other than those things, I would say you get a good source. The I I mentioned this because of uh Serena's question last week, but like I tend to use when I want just bitterness in small amounts, wormwood is an easy one to go to. The second one, gention.
+
+[53:59] Then I would look into, especially if you're willing to do like alcohol extracts, like so low ABV, you can do alcohol extracts. I would look in in liquid intelligence, actually, the orange bitters has a good range of bitterness in it, but I would hit up like this is for the the bitter side, quasia, uh quasia, kinchona, like those are the two big ones along then with gention and and wormwood. And those four are like the big massive four, right? And then for like aromatics and other things adding, like I would do things I I love finding new, like I really right now, I love rhubarb root, love it. Because it uh one of my most popular non-alks has rhubarb root tincture in it as kind of one of the main things.
+
+[54:42] Oris, which is used in a lot of alcoholic things, O R R R S is great for adding uh aromatic notes to to the the bitter things. Um orange peels, especially like bitter orange peels are really good uh as bitterance. So I would use uh I'd use some things, things like this. Uh what am I missing? Like I really like sweet woodruff, I like uh um there's a lot of like you want something that's like if you I in general I I go with things that are mostly aromatic or things that are mostly hardcore bitter, and that way I can combine the two of them and then kind of make anything in between that I want.
+
+[55:18] Is that makes? Yes. Yeah, all right. Uh do I give enough suggestions for now? I think so, yes.
+
+[55:24] Okay. Dr. Smokehouse says, uh would like some opinion, would like to hear some opinions on blood sausages, and if any, a favorite type. So what I have to say, I've never made blood sausage. I've eaten plenty of blood sausage.
+
+[55:37] So I think like what are we talking here? There's there's texture, right? Firm or basically broken up, right? Like it can range from basically blood pudding to like a firm sausage. Then there is amount of filler, so some are very light on filler, some are not.
+
+[55:53] Then there is which filler, so rice, oats, corn, flour, right? Those are the main ones, right? I guess bread. And then there is diameter, so what's it stuffed in? Like I get, you know, what's it stuffed into?
+
+[56:06] Those are these are the main, these are the main things. So what what do you what do we think? I was just looking through a list. I think the only types of blood sausage I can think that I've really had is Boudanmar and Morcia out of Spain. I don't think much fillers from what I can remember.
+
+[56:25] Boudin noir, I don't think has like any grain or anything like that in it. Maybe a little flour. It has to. To help. Right?
+
+[56:31] Yeah, but I don't think there's any like it's just too much. It's just too rich otherwise. Some blood sausages also have meat filler. So Morcia has meat filler. Yeah.
+
+[56:39] And that I do like. I like a meat filler. Me too. Yeah. But I like, I think I prefer like fine gr more finer filler texture like that than like big chunks of things.
+
+[56:51] I really like the texture of Boudonmoir, like that bite and kind of smoothness. What's the what's the uh what's the the thin blood sausage that's in lamb casings? I can't remember what it's called, but that says pretty good because I don't necessarily want like a bagel. Although I do like when blood sausage like English breakfast is disked, it's like fat and like in like a in like a like a bunk casing, but like discs cut into discs and then fried up a little bit. Yeah.
+
+[57:19] Does the English side you like that, Joe? You like that, Quinn, right? Yeah, I mean, I think uh English style blood pudding, black pudding is what I'm most familiar with. Yeah, I like that. I like that.
+
+[57:36] But I also like the ones where they're like, you know, like a regular hog casing, and you cut them and they like you know come out and you put them over something like rice. Maybe rice with saffron, right? Right, Joe? Maybe. Uh, yeah.
+
+[57:53] But uh, yeah, I don't know. What what other opinions do we have on this? Or should we should we open this up and revisit it next week when like some people can tell us what their blood sausage opinions are? I was forget what country they were from, but I was talking to someone and they were like, I was like talking to them about fillers. They're like, fillers, our sausage is old blood.
+
+[58:09] And I was like, oh geez Louis. All right, man. Um and we were also mentioning this sausage that I've wanted to try for years, and I finally tried it. And I was like, oh, no, thanks. And John looked up the name of it.
+
+[58:21] It's from Lyon. So like Leonese Lyonnaise, Lyonnaise, right? They are like they're like masters of charcuterie, right? I mean, pretty much undeniable masters of charcuterie. But they have a sausage that's basically just butt, just butts, just butts.
+
+[58:39] Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's called it sounds really delicious, right? Andouillet. Enduillette.
+
+[58:45] Right? Yeah, sounds great. But it's just a pinwheel of intestines. So it's like, you know how like you're like, oh yeah, I like my natural case, which is intestines all the way down. But get this.
+
+[58:55] For those of you that eat tripe or intestines, don't you usually have it with tomato sauce and hot? Yeah, and hot being the main thing. Yeah, yeah. Hot and tomato sauce, because the acid cuts some of the butt butt butt butt butt, right? And the tomato cuts some of the butt butt butt.
+
+[59:08] This stuff is served sauceless and cold. And the first time I finally was able to have it, I was like, oh, I don't need to have that again. I don't need to have it again. You know what I mean? For years I wanted to have it, and then I didn't.
+
+[59:18] All right. Uh Ivan writes in um from uh Pat writes in rather, Pat uh from uh Matilda. Uh writes in one's that we input carbright and what which one of these should I take? I'll take carbrig. Um oh no, I'll take this one.
+
+[59:31] Uh I recently made some acid phosphate by buffering phosphoric acid with calcium carbonate, magnesium carbonate, and potassium bicarbonate, and then diluting it and the pH is sitting it too. So this is like what Darcy O'Neal did for his acid phosphate stuff, a way to use phosphoric acid in cocktails. My goal is to make a carbonator tomorrow drink akin to Dr. Pepper, and I'm wondering how you would integrate the acid phosphate. I've been adding a bar spoon, blah blah blah, but I'm wondering if it could work as the acid component of a glassid style ingredient.
+
+[59:55] Now here's the thing. And instead of shooting for six percent acidity in a glassed environment, or it's it's three percent. So you want a three percent solution is what you should be using of it, not like six. And if you start with a 3% solution of phosphoric acid, you'll get much closer to uh uh getting targets that you like. And I use them in, for instance, uh one of our one of our best sellers at uh Contra is something called piscola, which is a verna, right amoro, and then to that phosphoric acid, and that combination makes it into a cola flavor with uh pisco and carbonated.
+
+[1:00:45] So anyway, let us know whether that helps, and I'll answer some more of your questions next week on cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, New Stand Studios. No one in the studio just me and Joe Hazen. How are you doing? I'm doing well, man.
+
+[0:22] Great to see you. Thanks for coming out on Tuesday. Yeah, on a nice and toasty warm day. It's so cold out there. I love it.
+
+[0:29] Actually, I don't mind this cold. Do you mind it? No, not at all. I love it. Yeah.
+
+[0:33] Like when you breathe in and your nose gets all spiky. Oh man, that kind of stings. Yeah, crisp. Crisp. Uh up in Connecticut for the first half of the show.
+
+[0:43] We have uh John, how are you doing? Doing great. Enjoying the cold as well. Yeah, yeah. Uh nice out here.
+
+[0:51] Great state of Connecticut. Small state, best state. Indeed. Uh over there, uh, Nastasia the Hammer Lopez is still uh MIA. We know where she is, actually, but she's just not here.
+
+[1:00] Uh on the phone lines. But uh in the lower left, we got uh Jackie Molecules. How you doing? Yep, good. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[1:08] And in the upper left off the coast, we got Quinn. How you how are you doing today? I'm good. Good. Uh and if you uh if you choose to you and you're a member of the Patreon, you can call in your questions to 917-410-1507.
+
+[1:22] That's 917-410-1507. And why don't you tell them why they might want to be a Patreon? But who's gonna do who's gonna take this? John or Quinn. Oh, see, I guess.
+
+[1:33] Listen, I just I just made the biggest faux pas of all time. When someone's injured on the street, you don't say somebody call EMS. You point to an individual and you say call EMS. You know what I mean? That's right.
+
+[1:44] True. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, anyway. Cookie mistake.
+
+[1:47] Yeah, rookie, rookie mistake. It's like I was talking to a stunt man at the bar. I was at the bar with uh Mike Capafari and a friend of his, also a bar owner, also a stunt, also an ex-circus performer, ex stunt man. Uh, we were talking about getting lit on fire, right? And uh he was saying, I was telling him how when I caught on fire, I tried to run away from myself, you know, as one does when you're not trained.
+
+[2:10] He's like, listen, even when you like trained, when you first catch on fire, you don't necessarily do what you're supposed to do. Like your body just doesn't necessarily do what you're supposed to do when you catch on fire. So now I don't feel quite so bad. You know what I mean? Good.
+
+[2:25] Good. Glad he helps you feel better. Yeah, I mean, the second third time you catch on fire, you probably know what to do. You know what I mean? I would hope so.
+
+[2:33] Yeah, the run of show, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, because every other time I've caught on fire, and I have caught on fire like, you know, more than three times, it's always been like just the hair, and it's over real fast. There's nowhere to run. There's nothing to do.
+
+[2:45] You know what I mean? Like when your hair catches on fire, like it's like whoosh. Just happens. Yeah, it just happens. As long as you don't have too many like fire sustaining hair care products like Michael Jackson had in the Pepsi commercial.
+
+[2:56] As long as you're not like that, like it's over real quick. You know what I mean? Anyway. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[3:03] Well, go to Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Uh, you can find a couple different membership levels there. Each membership level has uh different perks. You all of them get prioritized questions being answered. You get access to our Patreon where you've got a community of like minded members to have discussions with.
+
+[3:22] You get access or access to discount codes like Kitchener Letters and Glass and a whole bunch of other companies. So check it out. Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Yeah, uh speaking of uh uh questions from the Patreon, we have a lot of like carbonation related questions today, so it's kind of a good day for Nastasia not to be here because we all know how much she hates carbonation questions. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[3:44] Hates it. And I think one other baking question. And there's what'd you say? Like one other um baking flour question, too. Oh, do I?
+
+[3:54] Did I see that? Oh, speaking of flour, uh the uh the uh flower city folks from uh Rochester uh were at the bar the other day, and uh shout out to them. And uh I wore the hat last week. So they they gave me a bread hat, and I think a flower hat, but I wear the bread hat all the time, and people are like, what is that? I'm like, it's bread.
+
+[4:15] And then they stare at me for a while because I don't say anything else, and then they're like, Well, where is it from? Because there's apparently like a famous graffiti artist in Brooklyn named bread, and they're like, Is it related to him? I'm like, No, it's uh it's Flower City up in uh up in Rochester. But then um biscuits, someone in the my elevator was like, Biscuits, huh? I'm like, Yeah, biscuits.
+
+[4:32] And that's it. I just try to say nothing afterwards, you know what I mean? I thought there was a blue, uh like a bluey uh reference. Bluey, the the cartoon. Oh, I don't watch that.
+
+[4:41] It's not a big thing. I have a four-year-old, so you know, like instead of cursing the kid the those dogs the pups say, oh biscuits, biscuits. I'll tell you what, I was in the I was in the bar the other day, I forget who I was talking to, and I told them, which is true, is that most everyone in my life, if you were to give them a choice between biscuits and rolls or biscuits and bread, they would all choose the bread or the rolls and not the biscuits. Yeah, which I think is kind of weird. You know what I mean?
+
+[5:10] And especially because I you know, I leave it wide open. I'm like, you can have a flaky biscuit or you could have a fluffy biscuit. Like I'll I'll give you any kind of biscuit, but you know, you have to what kind of bread are we talking though? Um it matters what what the bread option is. Yeah, well, in general, like, so if it's dinner time, it's gonna be a Parker house roll versus a biscuit.
+
+[5:30] Everyone goes Parker House. Everyone in my family is Parker House head. You know what I mean? Um for breakfast, I don't know. It's like people are always like, I like the biscuits.
+
+[5:40] And by the way, I've done exhaustive tests of the biscuiting and and I thought was a garbage idea, but grating the frozen butter with a box grater is super money. It's super money. Yep. Super money way to do it. Just like works every time.
+
+[5:56] And by the way, I don't want to get into a huge unless there's a pie question, I forget. I don't want to get into a huge pie situation right now. But I've been doing some pie tests because I made uh a turkey pot pie about a week ago because I had some frozen turkey. I went out from Thanksgiving, I've I sliced up a bunch, I froze it down, I made a turkey pot pie. You guys like pot pie, right?
+
+[6:16] Lervis. Of course. Yeah. Pope pie. Good, right?
+
+[6:19] I just had a tr chicken pot pie today for lunch. Good, right? Delicious. Love it. And the secret, Miley does this.
+
+[6:25] I'm sure John does this. Uh, my sister-in-law Miley, you know, who's on the show, and uh, you know, is the uh great grand, you know, you know, the leader of uh all of her lifestyle magazines at this point, but started the Food Network magazine among many other magazines. Anywho, the whole pearl onion, a whole pearl onion in the pot pie. Love it, right? And like I forget who it was, whether it was John was like, you could buy frozen pearl onions that are already ready to rock and roll.
+
+[6:49] I was like, uh for years I was like, I'm not gonna use a pearl onion. Hell with that. What am I gonna buy that sack of pearl onions and sit there all day peeling them? No. You know what I mean?
+
+[7:00] But the fact that you can buy, yeah, I wonder how they do that. You think they use lye to melt off the outside layer and then and then like they do is like uh like uh alkaline peeling? How do you think they do it? You think they tumble it? You think they abrade the outside off?
+
+[7:14] What do you think they do? I don't know. And then a tumble? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know.
+
+[7:23] Because they're also getting the root off. Yeah. They're getting the root off, right? So with Garden. That's a good point.
+
+[7:29] Yeah. I don't know. Like they've got a really good point. I didn't think of that, yeah. Melt it.
+
+[7:33] We need to get we need to get, we need to find somewhere in our circle of of uh cooking issues uh crew, our cooking issues people, who's uh someone who's worked for like Green Giant or Bird's Eye, and just be like, listen. Uh you know, all the all the things we're interested in. You know, Bird, for those of you who don't know, Birdseye, I don't even do people still buy bird's eye? Clarence Birdseye. Yeah, Clarence Birdseye invented invented the technology for flash freezing uh frozen vegetables in like a high quality way.
+
+[8:03] And uh, you know, when I was a kid, they were still Kolansky wrote a pretty good biography of interrupts, but Mark Kalansky wrote a good biography about him, yeah. Nice, nice. And for years, even in the 70s when I was a kid, bird's eye was like the Sinequa non of frozen vegetable quality. You know what I mean? This was in the days before IQF though.
+
+[8:23] I think IQF like Bird's Eye was originally so the old school bird's eye were the ones that were block frozen, right? Uh between plates, uh like super cold. But I don't know, now everyone's I mean for good reason people are IQF I IQF happy. IQF means individually quick frozen for those who don't speak stupid frozen food lingo. And uh because obviously they're free-flowing, so you can just like take however much you want out of the sack.
+
+[8:47] Whereas when you were a kid, they stacked nicely in your freezer, but the frozen blocks, you gotta use the whole thing. What are you taking to take an ice pick and break all the spinach apart? You know what I mean? Yeah, I know about the spinach. Blocks of spinach.
+
+[8:59] Blocks of spinach. And by the way, I have to say, uh, at least if you use frozen spinach, because it's already been so damaged by the freezing and thawing process, at least you're like likely to get the all the crap out of it before you put it on the plate and have it leak all of that like vicious awful juice out onto the plate. True. How much do you hate that, John, when someone serves you a plate of something with spinach on it and then you tilt it and you get that filth, that filth water coming out of it? You know what I mean?
+
+[9:24] Disgusting. It's somewhat appealing. Wow. So gross. What's your what is your guys' favorite application for cooks?
+
+[9:31] First of all, can we agree that even if you like raw spinach, even if you're one of these raw spinach people, that cooked spinach is good, right? I mean, we can we can all agree on that, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay.
+
+[9:43] Uh so what's your favorite spinach situation? Sag. Yeah, it's good. It's real good. Yeah.
+
+[9:52] Oh, yeah. I like a cream spinach though. Like a good cream spinach. I love a cream spinach. Oh my god, I love a cream spinach.
+
+[9:59] Yep. You know what I mean? Cream spinach, especially when it's when it's cold out. Yeah. Cream spinach and a steak.
+
+[10:06] Oh, yeah. Cream spinach and a steak? That's good. Oh yeah. That's real good.
+
+[10:10] Spinach frittata. Ooh, I like that. Yeah. And I like uh I like a you know, you I like a spinach uh uh in a quiche as well. Although, what percentage of quicies that you get are actually delicious versus disappointing?
+
+[10:26] Very few good quishes. And underseasoned. Overcooked and under seasoned. Our favorite phrase that uh Peter Kim used to insult our host restaurant when we went up to uh whatever college that was in uh in near West Adams. Anyway, uh how was the food?
+
+[10:43] Overcooked and under seasoned. That's a classic Peter Kim ism there. Uh but anyway, back to the pie. I was making a chicken pot pie and I used uh frozen uh carrots and peas, because what am I gonna do? Sit there and cut those carrots and then cook them?
+
+[10:55] No, of course I'm not. What are you dumb? You know what I mean? Who's who's gonna do that? Does anyone do that?
+
+[10:59] Is it is there a reason to do that? No? Anyone? Is there anyone find a reason to buy carrots, turn them into cubes for pot pie, other than to buy them frozen? I don't see a reason at all.
+
+[11:15] Unless fried rice. No. Yeah, but still, I mean, unless you're going to Pete's Greens in uh in like Upper Vermont and you're getting like God carrots. I mean, that person grows God level carrots. And so, like carrots.
+
+[11:31] There you go. On the other hand, right? I can turn a kind of you know, medium carrot into a god level carrot with a little bit of sugar. You know what I'm saying? Like, like you can jazz up so like once it's gonna be in a pot pie and you can correct the whole thing.
+
+[11:47] I don't know that there's a reason to put a god-level carrot into a pot pie. I think it's just throwing away unless you unless all you have is god level carrots and you want to have pot pie. I don't see a reason to use that great of a carrot in a pot pie. Do you guys think it's a mistake people make? Yeah, I mean, like unless like your whole thing is just throwing away work and money unless you want to be profligate with your with your fancy carrots, you know.
+
+[12:13] Um I mean, I want those carrots again. It's coming on. Yeah, just correct. Correct. Or even just eat like these carrots are so good.
+
+[12:24] Like uh peace green's carrots, like a certain time of year, like the ones that are like he pulls out right before they're gonna freeze, so they've been in the ground the maximum length of time. That's I mean, that's nature's candy as much as a raisin is, you know what I mean? Anyone remember that ad campaign? Raisins, nature's candy. Yeah.
+
+[12:41] Uh anyway, so the pot pie. Yeah, right. Back to the uh back to the pop. Also, most carrots that you buy in the store are trash. They really are.
+
+[12:50] I was doing uh I did uh Booker's uh yearly sushi, you know, sushi meal for his birthday. Every year we've been doing it for like, I don't know, 15 years since he was a little kid, right? And then we always do the same thing. We I go to Aqua Best, I get some Ora King salmon. I got a second sushi grade salmon, the Ora King beat it.
+
+[13:09] I get a Mikura and uh all this stuff. And uh yeah, and so uh, you know, I buy a carrot so that I can do the roll you you guys know the technique, the Japanese technique, where you take the you take the round shaped, like you take a daikon, you take a carrot, you take a cucumber, anything that's in a tube shape, and you take usually an is an usuba, which is like it looks like uh I don't know, it how someone describe an usuba. It's like rectangular and long, right? Is it the creaver shape? Yeah, I mean ish, but it's thin and long, you know what I mean?
+
+[13:45] And not that tall like a cleaver. And you you hold the the veg, and if it's a hard veg like a carrot, you should soak it in in some salt water so that it uh it loses it. You want it to be a little uh to you know, loot you don't want it to be super crunchy, right? And the knife has to be ridiculously sharp. And you hold it in your hand and you pr you put it into the side, and then you peel a veneer off of the outside of the of the veg and you make these sheets, and then you slice those sheets into sticks, right?
+
+[14:12] And so that's like how that's one way other than like planking and and keep reducing down to make like you know thin like for for mocky rolls, thin, you know, uh lines of things like daikon, carrot, cucumber. So I was doing all that. But this year, interestingly for me, I did it in uh I did it with uh Scott's uh from Seattle Ultrasonics uh new ultrasonic knife I think we're gonna have him on the show. Quinn are you gonna set that up next time he's in town? Sure.
+
+[14:42] Have you guys seen this? It's a knife and he sent it to me. I have I have some video content. So it's got a battery in it. You charge it.
+
+[14:49] It's got a real strong magnet so it sits in the charger and you can sharpen it like a normal knife but it's got a button on it and when you push the button and you go into things it ultrasonically goes and so like it can kind of I'm trying to figure out what it's best at. For instance, like I tried it on bread. It's not a serrated knife but it went right through bread like it was a serrated knife. But it's a regular knife which was kind of cool. I'm getting used to kind of uh kind of having because you have to push the button to make it work.
+
+[15:16] Anyway, so I tried it with the uh rotating veg instead of my Usuba and uh it worked. It worked. I don't I'm not I don't know if I'm ready to give up my Usubi yet because it makes me very nervous doing that rotary stuff because I'm not good because if you slip at all and you don't know what you're doing blam oops sorry the knife goes right into the side of your hand and your toast. You know what I mean? It's kind of a nerve wracking uh it's a nerve wracking situation.
+
+[15:37] But very thin slices of cake perfect. I tried to use it in place of my Yanagi for fish slicing and I don't know that I fully have the hand of it. Like because the Yanagi's so Yanagi, by the way, for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, Yanagi is the very long slicing uh knife, uh Japanese slicing knife. And I really, really like my traditional Japanese knives, but I figured I'd test the the Seattle Ultrasonics. But you know what it was good at people?
+
+[16:00] Getting the skin off of uh a salmon fillet, which, you know, I don't know, nobody likes doing that because it's it's only an opportunity to mess things up. You know what I mean? Anyway, so yeah, yeah, for those of you that don't know how to do it, the way that I was taught to do it, and maybe there are much better ways, is you kind of wet your surface a little bit so that the salmon gets a little bit of a jiggle in itself, and then you throw it down, you grab the tail end, right? And you gotta make sure it can it can move around. You put it flat on a board, you make sure the knife can get right underneath it, you make a small incision into the meat right by the tail down to the down to the skin section, and then you hold the skin, and then you keep the knife there, and then you jiggle the skin back and forth as you pull as you pull it towards you, and it just kind of it just kind of rips this cuts the skin off of the salmon.
+
+[16:51] And if you do it right, you get the entire piece, and then at the end, you kind of have to use the knife more as you get up towards the collar. You have to use the knife instead of the skin to do it. But you can get the whole skin off in one piece without losing a lot of meat. That's mean, John, is that the way you were taught or no? Yep.
+
+[17:07] Yeah. Uh great. Yeah, hold the knife at a downward angle, not like per not parallel with the cutting board. Yeah, because otherwise, if you hold it parallel with the cutting board, it'll it'll drift up into the fish. And if you hold it down, if you hold it down and you push, then you'll cut the skin.
+
+[17:20] If you hold it, you just have to it's like it's all about just like the skin wants to do the work. And it did really well at that. It just wasn't quite long enough. So when I got towards the collar section of it, I messed up a little bit. But the first whole section of it where it was the correct width for what I was doing, it worked great for getting the skin off.
+
+[17:37] So, anyway, uh more on that knife, and we'll get Scott on to tell us what it's actually for, because who knows. Uh anyway, sorry, back to pot pie. So I made a pot pie and I I started retesting my old uh pie uh crust recipes again. So I saw Crisco, you know, who in invented uh this thing you might have heard of called Crisco, right? Uh they have an interesting set of recipes.
+
+[18:04] And you know, I I looked at them versus my Monroe Baust and Strauss recipe spreadsheet, which yes, Quinn, I know I owe to the Patreon people. But um the the main issue with pie crust is getting one, the flour correct. So if you're not using the correct flour, if you're not using the same flour that the recipe developer used, then your recipe is garbage. That's the first thing to bear in mind. Second, uh you have to choose which one of the three main styles that were popular in the 20s, 30s, and 40s you want.
+
+[18:29] Those are super mealy, right? Uh super long flake or medium. So I'm shooting for medium. And Crisco had a really good idea, and you guys might enjoy this, is you take half of the fat that you're gonna use and you thoroughly incorporate it in as you would for a mealy crust, because what that does is it stops, there's no long big pieces of fat. Most of the flour is coated, so it's a very short crust, right?
+
+[18:55] Then they Crisco has you put in the rest coarsely like you would for like a long flake or for like a biscuit. Then you roll it out, and it's a good middle ground between the two kinds of pastry, and it also doesn't snap back as much because most of the flour has enough fat around it that it doesn't have a lot of mean. I used I used soft, uh I used soft wheat and then sifted it so I wasn't gonna have a gluten problem anyway. But anyway, so that's the that but I did the biscuit style. So what instead of using Crisco, I used butter and I incorporated half of the butter in, allowed it to soften, incorporated half the butter in fully like I would for a fully short crust, like a tart crust.
+
+[19:32] And then I grated like for biscuits, and that's why I'm getting back to the biscuit thing. Graded in like I did for biscuits, the other half of the fat into it, and just fork mixed it around and then added the water. Anyway, so that was my pot pie, and I'm a top-only pot pie guy. It's so much easier if you just have a top crust on a pot pie to do it in a casual roll casserole style dish and then reheat it without the bottom becoming garbage. Anyone else with me on this or no?
+
+[19:59] Wait, isn't it if it's a bottom crust? Isn't it not pot pie? Isn't that just pie? No. I don't think so.
+
+[20:10] I've had them both ways. I don't know. I've had pot pies that you could pop right out of the pot and and like eat them. You know what I mean? But I don't know.
+
+[20:17] I mean, like Yeah, but then it doesn't need to be a pot. Well, I mean, you need it. Are you talking like an open-faced pot pie? Well, but it's like just just cr just top crust. Just top crust.
+
+[20:30] Oh, it's like Boston Market used to do that. Yeah, just top crust. Yeah. The Popeyes I grew up with had two crusts, but like this is top crust situation. What does stofers have?
+
+[20:40] Does sofers have two crusts or one? Two crusts. Yeah. And listen, if if someone's gonna know who a what a pot pie is, it's stofers. What time's dinner?
+
+[20:52] What? What's where's the commercial? It's like, oh hey, you gotta come in for dinner. And then it's like, oh, what time is Jimmy having dinner? Okay.
+
+[20:59] Yeah, yeah, because Chivy's got the Popeye? Well, they both know they go for the stuffing. Oh, stuff. Oh, stovetop stuffing. Do you have never had stove top stuffing?
+
+[21:07] Get out of here, dude. Listen. Dude, it's they they nail it. I mean, it's it's delicious. I'm sorry.
+
+[21:13] It's delicious. I mean, I'll try it someday. I've just never had it. You know? So much sodium.
+
+[21:18] Yeah. You know what I have had, but I don't remember it. I have had hamburger helper, but I don't remember what it tastes like. I don't know if you know this. I love the hand.
+
+[21:27] Yeah. I always wanted the hand. The hand, like, yeah, it's it's good swag. You know what I mean? Hamburger helper helps her hamburger help her make a great meal.
+
+[21:36] So it's very gendered, obviously. You know? Hamburger helper helps her hamburger help her make a great meal. Anyone remember this commercial? Real early.
+
+[21:45] Anyway. Uh, pot pie. Anyway, the Popeye was good. Popeye good. Um, uh, I used uh, I used uh a re I did a regular like milk and roux and then just used a I used a a bullion paste.
+
+[22:00] I used the better than better than bouillon, which is a good brand. We should get them on board. I do like that brand a lot. It's a good brand. Yeah.
+
+[22:07] If you're gonna buy their brand better than bullion's no, if you want to make a tomato soup for vegetarians, right? Better than bouillon's no beef base, they're fake, they're not fake, but they're vegetarian beef like makes a ridiculously good tomato soup. Like absurdly good. Their gravy is awesome. They have a really good, like caramelized uh savory onion kind of base too.
+
+[22:36] That's really delicious. Yeah. Yeah, I've never used it. I use their chicken, I use their and I use their no beef, and I think I've used their no chicken, and I have their veg base, but I never use the veg base because if I'm gonna use the veg base, I'll just use their no beef or their no chicken, depending on which one of those two I want. Because those are the flavor profiles I usually go for in my head, you know?
+
+[22:52] The fish one is awesome. Really? Yeah. Excellent. It's so good.
+
+[22:56] Yeah. You know what? Why isn't there stuff more available? It's funny. You know what?
+
+[23:01] It's actually kind of hard to find. Yeah. But as you know, as soon as you run into it, there's like so many, like, oh my God, there's so many more to explore. I'm just going to go for the organic chicken. Well, they had it at my, they had it, they they carried it for a minute at my local fine fair, which used to be like key foods adjacent, but then like tried to like fancy up.
+
+[23:18] So they carried it. I went in, I bought it all, and then they didn't re-up. You know what I mean? Way better than the Noor. Oh, yeah.
+
+[23:26] Although listen, Norris and Grand Sabor, I don't know if you know that, but uh they're owned by Unilever. And the interesting thing about Noor is that they uh they customize their flavors for the neighborhoods they're gonna be in. But you're never gonna get, I don't think you're ever gonna get, I mean, unless you use some sort of weird freeze-drying technology, you're never gonna get a uh a fully powderized thing that's gonna be, I think, as good as those better than bullion things. I've I've I haven't had a a base that I like that's that's commercially available to regular humans that I like as much as the better than bullion. Uh I you know, Amazon's sucks for it though.
+
+[24:03] Amazon charges so much for it compared to what it is in the store because they're they're selling those little jars. And Amazon, I don't think sells the big jars. You know that better than bullion comes in big jars. Haven't seen it. Yeah.
+
+[24:13] I did not know that. Yeah. That's the money, right? It's like you want a big jar anyway, because it lasts a long time. Very long time.
+
+[24:20] I use it all, I use it all the time. Yeah. It's my salt substitute. My one gripe, it sticks like a mother to the spoon. So, you know, you can do the old maple syrup trick uh or the old molasses trick where you pam your spoon, pam your spoon, and then stuff slips off of it.
+
+[24:37] Yeah. But what if it what if okay? Just hear me out better than bullion people. What if not a glass jar? What if it was a squeezy?
+
+[24:44] Or tube. Oh yeah. Speaking of tubes, uh we had a radio listener, a cooking issues uh listener, who came to the bar, left me some awesome German products, some pumpkin seed oil. I need to open it because I need a good excuse to use it, and I don't want to open it until it's ready to go because you know it's fragile, right? Uh some German, like big German, they look like the shape of lima beans, but they're brown and they're big and they're German.
+
+[25:12] And this stuff called grill mustard in a big metal tube. Guess what they didn't leave? Their name. I can't give them a shout-out. I don't know who they were.
+
+[25:22] I walk into the I walk into the bar, I get a bag. Yeah. I walk into the bar, I get a bag. I want to give them a shout-out. Nothing.
+
+[25:29] You know what I mean? Sad. Sad. Also, I don't mean to take this back in any other direction, but quickly, like the amount of better than bouillon bases is absolutely crazy. I'm looking at that online.
+
+[25:42] They even have a lobster base. Lobster I mean That's insane. Hey hey, listen, right? We need to hit these people up. Look, we're all fans.
+
+[25:50] Does everyone in the world already know about this company? If everyone in the world knew about this company, it would be everywhere. Just like the joy almond base should be everywhere. I think it's everywhere, no? Maybe in LA.
+
+[26:02] No, I can't find it's kind of hard for me to find too as well. Yeah. I mean, they're almost like the d like what's like the Doritos of uh flavors. To me, the thing that's a pain in the butt, because like I I can make chicken stock, right? And but it's just a question.
+
+[26:16] It's good to have it concentrated. You know, I I can make beef stock and I do, but when I'm I cook a lot for vegetarians. And so what's hard to find, their regular products are hard to find, but they're the ones that are key for vegetarians, the only one that's readily available in in Manhattan is the veg base. But if you want the no beef and the no chicken, it's more of a specialty item. And it's like it's it's definitely a get out of jail free card when you're when you're cooking either vegetarian or vegan for people, but you want that flavor profile.
+
+[26:48] You know what I mean? Um base too. What? What'd you say? Yeah, this is great.
+
+[26:55] Ham base. Mushroom base. And adobo. And yeah, ham, right? I made diet I already mentioned that I I I bought a honey baked ham for uh around Christmas time.
+
+[27:06] I just made the soup. Man, ham bone, using a big old hand bone for a soup, I mean, come on. That's good. You know what I mean? That's good.
+
+[27:14] That's good. Yeah. Everyone likes a ham bone. That's another that's another thing. People are like, I've used uh and then they list some fancy ham for their hand bone in the soup.
+
+[27:23] Not smart, right? You don't need a super hyper fancy ham in your soup. Do you think so, John? No. No.
+
+[27:33] In fact, I don't think so. No, yeah. Sometimes the fancy the most fancy hams, because they're older, right, and funky, I think they're kind of weird in something like that. You know what I mean? Like, I don't necessarily need like, you know, a hyper aged, like, you know, uh ham fat in my in my regular bean soup.
+
+[27:52] You know what I'm saying? Anyway. Uh great. All right, John. Since you're here now and you might not be here for the entire program, okay.
+
+[28:01] Okay, do you think do you think this person is K E V A N? What do we think? Kevin or Kivan? Kevin. Kevin?
+
+[28:11] Kevin. Yeah. All right. I think so. Kevin says, What cooking hacks have you brought home from work?
+
+[28:18] I'm looking to streamline my home cooking and adopt more of a pro mindset at home. Well, that depends on your household. I mean I don't use them as much as I used to because I was told not to store things in plastic anymore. But like just making the move to core containers is like life better. Life better.
+
+[28:39] Core containers, core containers and blue tape. Core containers, blue tape, and a sharpie, right? Then like lids, get some half gallons, and then some pints and some eight ounces, and then like just life becomes so much better. You can have an infinite number of them. You can use them almost forever.
+
+[28:58] You can freeze them, you gotta be careful because they're they're brittle. Uh they stack so well. They stack so well. You know what I mean? Um I mean, it's just there's not a a lot of that.
+
+[29:08] Try to have everything open and available to you too. Yeah. Like if you're gonna have to go all the way into your back closet to get your blender out, you're never gonna make anything with a blender. Correct. And then you're just gonna not make that much.
+
+[29:20] This is another thing though, where you're not gonna mix bowls out, have your top drawer filled with what is most useful, things like that. Yeah, this is another thing though, where you t there tends to be friction between the people who are cooking and the people who are not cooking, because a lot of people don't like the open storage. Like, so like all of my bowls, I've said this before, just like John said, I have them all out, and it's only ever like on like. I never stack two different sizes of bowl together. And I put them away, and I have, and I get cheap as hell stainless steel bowls because they stack very, very well.
+
+[29:55] They stack almost to the thickness of the metal. So it's like you can have a stack of like five salad bowls. So then if stuff runs away from you, or six salad bowls, if stuff runs away from you, you're good to go. And you can have like a bunch of different sizes and layout. It's super fast.
+
+[30:10] Um what else? Uh I think also doing your shopping at like a restaurant like supply store, like for hardware for bowls, for tongs, for ladles, all that stuff. Don't go to Williams Penova, don't get the crap at Walmart. Um like that stuff at those stores is gonna last you. And that's where you're gonna find like the stainless steel bowls that you're talking about, too.
+
+[30:35] Yeah. Sheet pans. Uh, you know, so like, oh, by the way, uh, I'll look it up, but um so for those of you that cook with a brevel or uh an ANOVA uh smart oven, uh all of the pans that you can buy suck. They just are bad. And if you go, there's online there's a bunch of people who like have these websites where they list all of the pans that theoretically are good in a toaster oven.
+
+[31:04] And what you want in life is a sheet pan, right? So there's aluminum sheet pans, which are great if you need uh if you need something that is uh shiny. They now make aluminum sheet pans that are uh that have a um they're more radioabsorptive, you know, uh um they have a uh a higher emissivity, so you can so you can actually use them to brown things better. So they make those. But aluminum sheet pans are cheap and sturdy, but they come in half full size sheet pans, which most people's ovens can't take, half size sheet pans, which you know fit standard home ovens.
+
+[31:39] Uh, but they don't fit and quarters, so I use a lot of quarters and a lot of eights when I'm prepping, right? So when you're prepping stuff, I use a lot of quarters and eights, and and I use the and I use the um the racks that go in them so to sort of to keep stuff up off of things and to let things drain. So I use a lot of those. They stack also very well, they're very inexpensive. You have to hand wash them, which is a little bit of a pain in the butt.
+
+[31:59] But a half sheet tray does not fit in a brevel. And a half sheet tray is a little too small for most home ovens. You wish it could go a little bigger. They make what's alternatively called they're the same size, a two-thirds sheet tray and a three-quarter sheet tray, which you can get on K Tom or restaurant, a webstaurant store. Those fit regular home ovens, but they are expensive.
+
+[32:18] I forget the number, but Chicago Metallic, which is a fantastic actually company of like high end. Like I had a muffin pan of theirs for decades, and that was the best muffin pan I've ever used in my life, Chicago Metallic. And it's a great name. Could you get a better name than Chicago Metallic? No, right?
+
+[32:33] Chicago Metallic. Pretty good. Yeah, and they've been in business a long time. They make a pan, and I have to get the the exact number of it for next time, but you can look it up based on the dimensions, right? It's like 15 and a half inches across, and just it I think it's like 10 or something.
+
+[32:50] It's the almost the exact size of a Breville Smart Air toaster oven and an ANOVA oven, and it is the stiffest pan in the world. I bought some of the stainless steel pans that that you know some people recommend that you buy for the Breville. I got them on Amazon, and here's the thing. I got them, I was like, okay, I pick them up and they warp in your hand. Now, if a pan warps in your hand when it's not even hot yet, right?
+
+[33:17] You ha you can't yet you have to every pan that you own, you have to imagine pulling it out of an oven that's 450 degrees with a bunch of grease that dripped off of something in it. And you need to control that grease to stop it from pouring down your shoe or down your arm. And you have to expect that there's like 10, 15 pounds of crap on top of it. It's fighting you the whole way. And if your pan can't do that, then you should break it over your knee and throw it away.
+
+[33:45] That's my feeling about it. What do you think, John? I agree. I was just gonna wait for you to stop talking so I could say that. Like when you're looking for sheet trays and pans like that, you want to look for like the gauge, and the higher the gauge and the stiffer the pan is gonna be.
+
+[34:00] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just like that's why commercial sheet pans are cheap, but they make because they make a bunch of them, but they're actually relatively high quality because even the ones that are crappier gauges, I mean you should get the thicker gauge one if you can afford it. They have a wire that goes around it, a rolled rim and a wire. Yeah, don't get the ones that don't have the wire.
+
+[34:20] They're rolled around it and it's just you know what I mean? Uh that's what you want out of it. Yep. That's the feeling you want. Make them say, uh, na nah, na na.
+
+[34:30] You know what I'm saying? That's what you want out of a sheet pan. Uh but about cooking though, not just like like equipment. What about like cooking stuff? Anything you recommend, John?
+
+[34:46] Like freezing stock in ice cube trays. Yeah. Or other kind of like flavored things, compound butters, things like that. I also don't cook at home on my days off. Like that's what I'm doing most of the time.
+
+[35:06] It's a pain. Um I get delivery. But yeah, it's terribly expensive. But um, I think also like just making good bases of things ahead of time, like a really good tomato sauce that you can freeze well and flatten a Ziploc bag um is good, just like as a hack that you can just kind of pull out and it's ready to go whenever. Um that's more about how I think about cooking.
+
+[35:31] Like when I'm at home, I'll spend time making like one nice big thing and then breaking it up so I can use it many more times in smaller amounts. Yeah. I mean, one thing I notice a lot for myself, just like when you're reading a professional recipe of who who's ever's professional recipe versus a recipe for home. Like I'm reading, like someone asked for a recipe I'm gonna give later, and it's like when I'm looking at it, there it people you freaked out. Remember the first, the first like kind of popular American book that came out that had like truly just straight professional recipes, but was meant for like home weirdos to buy as a coffee table book, was that I remember was the French laundry cookbook.
+
+[36:10] And if you look at the French laundry cookbook, right, right, it's like it's got all of the sub steps as though you were a restaurant. And I'm even looking at my own like drink recipes when someone asked for it, is like there's a lot of sub ingredients in it. And so people this is the this is what doesn't translate from restaurant to home. Is that in a restaurant where you're reusing a sub ingredient for a bunch of different preparations and you just need that sub ingredient to always exist, then your recipes are built around using that sub ingredient, right? Whereas if you're making, you know, so like for instance, I I use this ingredient polydextrose, or I use glycerin and I use different acids, right?
+
+[36:52] So all of my recipes are built around using my standard pre-made units of that stuff. Whereas if you were actually just writing a one-off recipe to make it, I could just tell you add this many grams of powder, add this many grams of this, add this many grams of that, and base it all together instead of all of these sub-recipes. So I think one of the key things that's different cooking at home is you very rarely, unless you're like saying what John is saying, you're making all these pre-recipes, you very rarely, and it can be daunting for for you know home one off home recipes to make all these sub things. What do you think about that? Yeah, agreed.
+
+[37:27] Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, because like you know listen, I'm sure many people are not as lazy as I am, but like I would much rather reuse a sub-ingredient that I already have than make a whole new sub ingredient if it is all possible and it doesn't like make me, it doesn't make the menu look too homogenous. You know what I'm saying? Because it's just Yeah, absolutely.
+
+[37:49] Yeah, it's just such a hassle. Um such a hassle. I'm sure I'll think of something else or uh if anyone has any anything to uh bring in. What there's got to be some crazy I'll try to think of it as as as we're going on. Hey, Quinn, you said uh before we got on the air, you said you wanted to say something to uh Pat from upstate about the uh uh at Matilda for about uh acid and phosphate.
+
+[38:10] Oh yeah, the question about acid phosphate or phosphoric acid, either way. Um that makes me pretty much every recipe that you find using it is like, you know, a sort of fountain drink or a derivative uh, you know, beverage therein. But I've I have used phosphoric acid flash acid phosphate and some desserts, obviously. Um and I do like it when there is no obvious organic acid choice, but you want like a really subtle acidity. So like I paired it with uh chocolate or uh even figs, because like figs aren't really acidic at all, but like just a little bit of it just brings a little balance to that fruit, and then it doesn't taste just like I don't know, a random flavored lemonade or something.
+
+[39:17] Yeah, it's very dry. It's a very dry acidity. It's extremely dry. You know what I mean. I've never used a phosphate though, so I don't know, like electric yeah, I don't know how I don't know how much the buffering when you're making the phosphate affects the flavor of it.
+
+[39:33] So I mean I'm sure it's saltier. But I don't know. You know, I use just phosphoric acid. Yeah, I guess I just yeah. So the phosphate might be different because it's good.
+
+[39:44] When it's you've had the phosphate. I've never used a phosphate. I mean, yeah, that's what I have. I you know I I bought Darcy, you know, ages ago. He's being a Darcy O Darcy O'Neill, uh chemist and uh be beverage thinker in Canada.
+
+[40:00] Uh yeah, so like the old school things were acid phosphates buffer because it's a very strong acid, but I use it in relatively small quantities and I can measure it very well. So I use like uh liquid 85% phosphoric acid. Um, but it's you know, strong. Um like I say, like, you know, I would use it at you know the s the acid I would use at uh uh about half of what I would use of citric. About half.
+
+[40:31] You know what I mean? At l or less, half or less of what you would use in citric, um of phosphoric. Um writes in, can we get some uses? But hey, Jack, did you have anything from this week? Did you say anything?
+
+[40:49] Did we do anything from this week? No, we just jumped right in, but I don't really have any No? I don't have anything that major. I was gonna shout out Thunderbolt because we had uh gluten-free friends visiting and staying with us from out of town, and it's so nice to be able to go to a place like Thunderbolt and just have all the bar food you want without worrying about a thing. Yeah.
+
+[41:08] No, nice. Yeah. Uh yeah, I saw w was Mike there. Was he already back in LA? I saw him, he was in New York last week.
+
+[41:16] No. Yeah. Uh he wasn't there. Speaking of which, going back to Chris Go for a second, right after World War One, so the first Crisco book came, Chrisco was invented, I forget the exact year, but the first big Crisco cookbook came out in I uh Marion O'Neill, I think was her name in 1913 or 1914. Right after World War One, right?
+
+[41:35] So it's still like mentally thinking about rationing, Chris Gow published a gluten-free pie uh crust, but not because of the need to be gluten-free, but the need to not use wheat. So I wanna uh I I don't have it memorized or I'd give it to you folks. Uh but uh maybe I'll make it sometime. Sounds fun, right? I mean, I can't make anything actually gluten-free in my house because my my house is like is like a a horror house for gluten.
+
+[42:01] It's like there's a fine layer, fine film of gluten over my entire my entire abode is like, you know, just a glutathione. But um anyway, uh old fat old fashioned villain writes in and says, Can we uh get some uses for a soxelet extractor and a theoretical build of the hot poker. Well I'll get to the hot poker in a second because someone else asked about the hot poker, but a soxilate extractor is an interesting thing. Uh can we get some uses for it? I have not come up with a use.
+
+[42:28] I own one, right? And they're cheap to get on Amazon. Uh the thing that sucks about them. So what a soxlet extractor is is this. You so it they look real funky.
+
+[42:37] They look amazing. I kind of want to just run one in the bar just for just for giggles, right? So what you do is is you you heat uh a solvent, let's say alcohol or water if you want, you heat it, and it it goes up, up, you heat it, the vapor goes up, it condenses and then drips down into a container as a warm condensate. So whatever temperature it condenses at, that's the warmth that it gets to. Now you can run a vacuum soxelet and get the temperature way down if you want to do room temperature extractions.
+
+[43:05] But anyway, so it then extracts and you have a thimble that the condensate drips into and that thimble is filled with whatever botanical or whatever you want to extract out of. And fresh solvent, because it's just condensed so it's fresh, drips onto it. Once it reaches a certain level, there's a tiny tube that comes out of the bottom of the soxelet up and over back into the heating vessel and it forms a siphon and it siphons all of the liquid that you've just infused down into the bottom and then it reboils and keeps so that what it does is it allows you to get a fresh extraction each time the soxlet thing fills and drains. It's fresh solvent. So it allows you to get a much higher percentage of uh compounds out of your material than you could by just doing a straight one off, right?
+
+[43:53] Now, and you can adjust the temperature, like I say, either by adjusting the solvent or by adjusting uh the pressure if you want, but you have to jerry rig a uh uh a vacuum soxlet. I've done it pain in the butt. Anyway, uh when you buy them online, by the way, if you go on Amazon and buy the cheap soxelet, which is what I did, the heating mantle sucks. Sucks. So it works okay for water, but it's just so underpowered.
+
+[44:15] I mean, sorry, for alcohol, it's just so underpowered for uh water. That said, I was trying to make something that I thought was amazingly delicious with the soxlet. So, and I didn't come up with anything that I didn't have uh just as good a way of doing any other way. So I I haven't yet found the killer application for it. Uh so there it is.
+
+[44:33] Uh John H. writes in uh can we talk about the home carbonation setup? I've got a CO2 tank and I carbonate water in old plastic topo chico bottles individually, but I'd like to know uh my dispensation method, uh dispensing method, I guess. Uh I'd like I kind of uh I'd kind of like a fast food uh joint style way to just put a cup under and push a button. I don't have a push button.
+
+[44:52] You have to pull the tap in mind. You have to pull the tap. Um but I don't know where to start. Uh I know I may uh you may have already spoken, but I like to hear more. All right, John, here's the thing.
+
+[45:01] I just switched my system about six months ago, and I'm gonna switch it again. Not the carbonation system. The best carbonation system in the world is a McCann uh Big Mac carbonator. It holds a bunch of water, and the trick with it is is that you you just gotta get you know, you get a filtered water supply to it, make sure it's filtered. Oh my God, like when you go to a place and they don't filter their water, oh God.
+
+[45:25] It's just awful. You know what I mean? So you filter the water, it goes in at room temperature. You put CO2 into it at about 100, hundred and ten, 100, depends on you how you like it, but like 100, hundred and ten psi. Uh, you make sure you purge all of the air out of it before you start, and the way you do that is you fill the entire thing with water and you bleed it so that the entire thing is filled with uncarbonated water, then you turn off the water supply in, then you drain all the water out under high pressure CO2, then you turn on the pump, it carbonates.
+
+[45:54] Now you have carbonated water. Now you gotta get cold. So the issue here is is you need a relatively long line. I used to use cold plates, so I would take a long line coming out, quarter inch ID, uh braid reinforced, no PVC in it, because that also stinks. Ethylene, PVA only, no PVC.
+
+[46:11] Uh I I've had people say that you can't taste it, and I don't know what's wrong with their taste buds, but I can taste it when it goes through the PVC lines I use. So through two circuits of a cold plate and out. And if you really want, you can glycol chill the taps and all that's good. So that's what I did for many years. But at home, it kind of sucks because ice makers are uh ice makers are not uh good to have at home if you don't like the noise and if you don't want to waste huge amounts of water and electricity because they just keep making ice all the time.
+
+[46:42] You can't put the cold plate in the freezer because it'll freeze. An ice maker, a you know, a home or commercial ice maker that's not in the freezer, keeps the ice at temperate temperature, it's never gonna freeze your stuff out. So for years, I just had an ice maker that would drop ice can in a continuous basis on top of my cold plate, and you can build it with a cold plate, but then you have to keep icing it. So that it's not ideal. So when my ice maker crapped out on me after, you know, 15 years, I replaced it with this thing, Linder pygmy, and you have to look it up, L-I-N-D R, I think it's Hungarian pygmy.
+
+[47:14] It's a little beer tap, and it doesn't use ice. The issue with cooling is is that it actually takes quite a lot of energy to cool eight ounces, let's say, of liquid down to serving temperature immediately. So that's why ice is so good. So when you have an ice bank, you can pull cup after cup after cup after cup. Uh you can buy an ice bank.
+
+[47:29] They're relatively expensive, and I think they're a little bit loud. So I will, you know, people have altered. I was thinking about buying an ice bank and then ripping out the circulating pumps and fans and replacing them with silent circulating pumps and fans. But it seemed like a lot. So I tried the linder and it works.
+
+[47:49] The problem is only the first cup is good, then you got to wait two minutes and then you get another great cup. And if you pull three cups in a row, the third cup is meh, right? So I have a new system coming soon that you know I'll look at and then I'll tell you about. But is that enough for now, right? That's enough for now.
+
+[48:03] Enough information, Joe, for now? All right. Um Rob and Nadia say, I've been playing with nitro cold brew coffee. How about nitro cocktails? I'm asking about nitrogen and the actual cocktail, not just adding a foam on top of the cocktail.
+
+[48:15] All right, so first of all, we have to be careful, because some people, when they say nitro, they mean nitrous, laughing gas. And uh by the way, I just started at the bar, we did a bunch of uh rapid infusion. I was training them using the tank and using get the get the nitrous tanks while you can before they're made illegal, because honestly, they should probably be illegal. Like people go around. So, have I talked about this on air at all?
+
+[48:42] Nitrous tanks. So you can buy a regulator for a nitrous tank, like a two-kilo nitrous tank, and and it comes with it, you can comes with an adapter to put it onto a standard EC whipped cream maker. Amazing. But what those tanks come with when you buy it, is a thing that screws onto the top of it so you can immediately fill a balloon or your mouth with nitrates. They are clearly for abusing nitrous oxide as a drug.
+
+[49:09] Like clearly. Even though on it it says that they're not. On it, it says, oh, this is for culinary use only, but they make them like bubblegum flavored and like rainbow and tuti fruity flavored. And I've run the test. When you use uh when you use a flavored nitrous, you can taste it if you just have the gas, but you cannot taste it in whipped cream.
+
+[49:31] You cannot taste it when it's in water. You can't taste it in and there is no culinary application for flavored nitrous. It's just for people that are huffing it, right? So honestly, like I don't think there, I don't know how long they're gonna be available, but you should get hold of them now because when you're doing rapid infusion with an ISI, like the important variable is the pressure that you're in. And so if you have a leak in your ISI, the recipe gets messed up.
+
+[49:58] And if you use a different size whipper for the same recipe, or if you do half of a recipe, or if you try to double a recipe, the flavor is never the same because it's a combination of pressure and time. With a tank, you can get the same pressure every time. Game changer, game changer. And also, when you're infusing with one of those things, a little particle can get caught in the uh in the vent, and it can make it so that it doesn't seal 100%. And that is catastrophic when you're doing it with chargers, like one by one, because you're just putting a weight amount of nitr nitrous in, so it loses.
+
+[50:30] But when you have a tank, a little bit of a leak, you're wasting a little bit of nitrous, but the pressure is the same. Great, fantastic. So I made a bunch of uh coffee uh stuff for an event with the tank the other day. Loved it. But uh so the question is, are you talking about nitrogen, which is doing the Guinness style kind of foams or nitrous?
+
+[50:48] I was given a nitrogen setup, but I don't use it. So I don't really have a lot of uh I don't really have a lot of input on an application where I thought that that was a huge game changer. Nitrogen is not soluble, but makes that kind of rolling head and uh can be used also uh for things like dispensing to do like uh make it seem like you've shaken the cocktail when you haven't or may give it some texture on the way out. I haven't used it that much. But uh, I mean if anyone else here has, they can they can say.
+
+[51:18] But uh nitrus, if that's what you mean, uh just you know, write back and I'll talk and talk about nitrous all day. Uh Alexander E, uh I've wondered over the years what role my CM Becker is more carbonation, more CM Becker taps, and that's by the way, that's the soda tap that I recommended for a lot of your CM Becker. And the reason is it uh they're designed for what's called premix soda. So they're designed to take a pre-mixed soda and dispense it at the highest quality possible. Like a f pre-mix means it's done already.
+
+[51:47] Unlike everyone now, when you when you work at a bar or restaurant, 99% of people have what's called a soda gun. And what a soda gun does is it has a single valve for uh the the water and then smaller valve that you push it, and that's where the syrup is. So the syrup, the syrup and the and the seltzer are being mixed at the point of the gun, which is why the which is why it's got that big hose, because it's got all the little hoses coming up from the bag and box flavors, right? They're not very good. They're just not very good because uh the little valves uh they don't compensate very well.
+
+[52:21] And so you'll when you look at someone taking soda out of a gun, it looks like almost like a torch flame coming out of it because it's right. And so a lot of CO2 is being lost on dispense, right? And that's but not great for soda, even worse for cocktails, because cocktails tend to foam a lot more because they're alcoholic than a regular one does. So it's the CM Becker valve or any equivalent valve valve with a compensator, like a lot of beer valves have a compensator on them. There's a giant bullet shaped thing on the back.
+
+[52:48] And when you open it, the the liquid goes from the high pressure at the back of the valve on the line very gradually and in a laminar way. So it's not like nothing violent is happening to it at all. Over this bullet shaped thing and out. And then you have a little, you have a little knob on the front, either a knob or a lever that lets you adjust how fast it can come out of the compensator valve. So you can dial it back until it's just a smooth water coming out, and you're losing almost no carbonation.
+
+[53:19] So there are other valves that do it, but CM Becker, they're cheap, they're plastic, and uh that's why I use them for many years. So that's what they're for. Uh so Alexander was wondering um, you know, what what else you can do? Like Alexander wants to make alcoholic uh dispensing, and it's always problematic. You're always going to get foaming.
+
+[53:36] Yes, if you chill your taps with a glycol chiller, they'll get better. Um if you but it's very hard. You the lower lower your alcohol level. You want to get better carbonation out of a tap with an alcoholic thing. Just make sure you clarify like a demon, make sure it's cold as hell.
+
+[53:52] Use long lines, long lines, right, to have it be smooth as it comes out. Make sure the first stuff that comes out is going to be a little foamy anyway. Uh, and uh yeah, use a compensator valve. What was the last one though? Oh, lower the alcohol level.
+
+[54:06] Jack it with some poly D or glycerin or whatever, and get the alcohol level. The lower the alcohol level, the better you're gonna be with uh with that. Is that good? Smothered? Hey, ask again.
+
+[54:15] If I didn't answer your question, ask it again. Uh BNMC, and there is a remember there's a question earlier. Uh, in Dave's recent feature in Punch uh about red hot pokers, uh I I showed making the red hot pokers, uh, what's the adhesive I use? So the way I make red hot pokers now, I don't use welding anymore because I don't have ac I don't have a shop right now where I can weld. So I went online and there's uh these tubing expanders that you can hydraulic tubing expanders.
+
+[54:39] And so I buy uh don't but don't make them by the way, it's not a good idea. But uh I buy um I think they're four inches long, three-quarters of an inch diameter, 500 watt, 110 volt uh heater cartridges. They're called uh, what are they called? Heat cartridges, heater cartridges, cartridge heaters. There you go.
+
+[54:57] Um the trick is is that you want to get ones with uh and they cost more, right? You want to get a high temperature one, uh, a very high temperature one. And the difference in is not the inside, it's actually the sheath. So the cheaper ones are made with like a 304 regular stainless, and what happens is those when they get real hot, they get oxidized, and so the red hot poker drinks you make with those end up tasting a little bit like rust, like iron. Whereas if you get the ones that have ink alloy sheaths, they uh they still oxidize, but they don't get rusty.
+
+[55:27] So uh Watlow makes them get the high temperature ones. Anyway, so you expand the the instead of welding it, you put the tubing expander in and you expand it until the until that 500 watt heater just slots into it. Then I use furnace cement, which comes in little also on Amazon. It's high temperature furnace cement. It comes in these little tubs, like little mini, like almost like you remember like when you made model cars, like the testers paint would come in, like a little tub.
+
+[55:51] And so what I do is I just scrape, scrape some in and I jam the red hot poker in with the furnace cement, and I tap it down, sink it, let it sit for 24 hours. Then I put like a couple inches of sand of uh aquarium sand on top from the backside on top of it to make up an insulation barrier, right? And then on top of that, I pour silicone. The silicone can't stand the temperature all the way down at the bottom. So the layer of sand is to keep the is to keep the junction between the heater and the silicone, right, at a reasonable temperature.
+
+[56:27] And then the silicone seals it, so no pressure, no liquids wanna or vapors want to go up the rod, which is what you want to prevent, and that's how that's how I make them now. But I don't recommend it. Uh Phil says, I was making a dairy-free eggnog a few weeks ago. I used Alton Brown's recipe, uh, but I subbed out one-to-one whole milk and heavy cream with oatly oat milk. The product tasted good and had a similar mouthfeel to uh a dairy batch, but the next day it had stratified in a gross way while the dairy version was still homogenous.
+
+[56:54] I didn't taste the oat oatmeal version again because it looked too gross. What could cause the oat milk version to separate out and is there a way to prevent it? I don't know how they stabilize the oatly, uh, but I know oatly has a full fat and a lower fat one. I'm assuming you used a full fat one. And I'm guessing there's two ways it could separate.
+
+[57:10] Either you could get a phase separation with the the sa like the just the water phase, so it looks like separated milk, right? So like you'll get like what looks like whey at the bottom, and you'll get like a layer of solids at the top. Or you could have gotten a three-part stratification where the oil went on the top, and then you had that layer of like white stuff, and then underneath that you had a layer that looked like a serum. You could probably mix it together and have it be okay. I would say use a mixture, like look in the book uh and make a mixture of uh gum arabic and uh Xanthan gum.
+
+[57:42] And that should help keep it emulsified for longer without adding too much uh to the texture. And that that's what I would say, although uh I'd be interested to know exactly what the type of separation it was is, but it's just probably not homogenized and stabilized in a way that makes it stable at all concentrations for a long period of time. I don't know whether the alcohol itself played a role or not, because again, I don't know how it's uh done. Um Z Bank says, I often feel like cocktails containing lemon have a sharp acidic off taste that I don't get with lime. I never noticed it at top cocktail bars to find it uh common at less high-end bars and at home.
+
+[58:16] Where does that come from? Is there another acid present uh other than citric or is it like a different kind of lemon like eureka versus lisbon? I think it's probably just age. I think a lot of people are using uh old lime. I'm uh right back again.
+
+[58:28] But if what the when you're saying sharp acidic off taste, I'm thinking it might be that uh detergent-y taste that you get out of lemon juice when it when it gets uh too old. But let me know and I'll think uh more uh about it. Uh Elliot writes in for alcoholic cocktails, we have standard structures, Manhattan's daicaries, Negroni spritzes, blender drinks, old fashions. Uh what about for non-alk? Uh yeah, uh it's I do.
+
+[58:52] I do have structures for non-alks. Uh, but it's gonna take a long time to talk about it. Maybe I'll talk about it more when the book's about to come out. And as a follow-up, you write, I gather that when writing the book one is forced to cut out entire sections for length. Do you have any discarded sections you can share with the Patreon?
+
+[59:06] I don't know. My editor hasn't told me what she's gonna cut out yet, but when she does, I'll definitely let you guys have uh the parts that she cuts out. Um Justin wants to know a good way to make powdered fruit, because dried juice powders often lack flavor. I don't have a good way other than freeze drying, but I'll think about anyone on cooking issues uh that wants to uh talk about it or let me let me let me know. Uh TV Mush uh says, does agar set gel set differently depending on acidity or how quickly it is cooled?
+
+[59:33] I don't know about how quickly it is cooled, although you don't want to agitate it while it's cooling. But your recipe has uh a hundred percent tamari to twenty percent calamansi juice. That's not only very high in acid, it's also very high in salt. So I think it's probably the salt that's messing with you because certain things can mess with agar, for instance, like cassis can mess with agar in a way that's kind of uh unpleasant. Owen Kay wants the Schizandra spec, and if Joe lets me, I'll give it to you on the way out.
+
+[59:57] John the Hutt uh has a question about freeze drying. Wants to know. I haven't had a freeze dryer in so long, John, but I'll think about it. Anyone who's on the Discord with a freeze dryer, John wants to know some uh good hydrocolloids to use, but I'll think more about it when I come in last week. Uh do I have another couple seconds, Joe?
+
+[1:00:12] All right. Uh Owen Kay wants to know the specs on my French 75 base. So my carbonated French 75 base is uh three quarters of an ounce of gin, uh half ounce of lemon cordial, half ounce of poly D, one and three-eighths ounces water, quarter ounce of one to one simple poly D is one to one uh uh polydextrose and and uh water. And uh that's it, that's it. It's uh 10.5 ABV, 13.7% sugar, and 0.89% acid.
+
+[1:00:41] You chill that, you carbonate, by the way, my lemon cordial, but the gin and the lemon cordial, the half ounce of lemon cordial is six percent acid lemon cordial. You you mix that at least one to one, and you can do any ratio. Just if you don't add enough champagne to it, it'll be too sweet. But anything over one to one, it's good to go. It's completely flexible.
+
+[1:00:59] And I'll give you the chazandra recipe next week if you still want it, uh cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City News Stand Studios. Joined as usual with John, how are you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yo, made myself almost pass out.
+
+[0:23] Need to breathe when I do that. Like I got like super dizzy. Like I just took whippets or something. Oh nice. Yeah, maybe it's it's the a it's the age creeping up on me.
+
+[0:31] You know what I mean? I haven't done whippets since high school, so you know. Perfect. But that's that memory stays with you. Yeah, no, it definitely does.
+
+[0:36] Definitely does. Yeah, yeah. Got uh Joe Hazen rocking the panels. How you doing? I'm doing great, man.
+
+[0:42] Good to see everyone. Yeah, great to see you as well. We are again Nastasia Les, but uh holding down Los Angeles. We got a Jackie Molecules. Jack Insley, how you doing?
+
+[0:52] Yo, I'm good. Good, good, good. And off of the coast in Vancouver Island, Quinn, how you doing? I'm good. Great.
+
+[1:00] For any of you guys listening live on Patreon, calling your questions to 917-410-1507, 917-4101507 for this uh further all tangent Tuesday. Yeah. Uh all tangents, all tangents all the time. Uh so what's going on, guys? What do you got?
+
+[1:19] Um, what do we got? We got some guests confirmed coming up. We got uh Paul Carmichael and Dennis No coming on to discuss um some things Momofuku and Kabawa and what Dennis has been doing as our chef. Supposedly, I would very much like to go. I went there.
+
+[1:35] Uh I was they only had reservations at the bar. I went there, what was it for? I don't know. I don't know whether it was anyway. I went there.
+
+[1:42] And uh, you know, Paul's, you know, great cook, you know, back in the States from his stint down under uh for years he was in Australia. And uh I was like, you know, it's gonna be good. That was really good, actually. That's what everyone's been saying. I really need to get over there.
+
+[1:57] Really good. Yeah. Like delicious. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[2:01] Like the the move if you can't get if you can't get into the main restaurant, right? If you ask real nice, they might bring uh food over from the restaurant. But maybe it could have been just for me, but I don't know. Yeah. Probably.
+
+[2:17] But I mean it's the same people. You know what I mean? It's just, you know, the bar menus abbre abbreviate different. Different different abbreviated. But anyway, yeah, great.
+
+[2:25] So I'll be happy to uh have him on. Although, geez, when are they coming on? March third. I think I mentioned this on air. Uh Paul's got a liquid nitrogen doer.
+
+[2:34] I'm not exactly sure what they use it for, but he's got a liquid nitrogen doer over there. And they use the evil nitrogen stealing hose that everyone sells you, the transfer hose that's like six feet long and sucks like ten liters of liquid nitrogen to chill it down every time you use it. So someone remind me the week before he comes, I'll order the parts and present him with the way the way that the uh the baby Jesus wants it to be. You know what I'm saying? Yes.
+
+[3:02] All right. Uh all right, great. Uh so for those of you who are not members of the Patreon and for instance don't want to get such things as listening to uh episodes that we weren't allowed to air but did anyway and had to be re embargoed. Uh what what can they do? What can they do, John?
+
+[3:18] Go to Patreon.com slash cooking issues. Um the couple different membership levels there. Every membership level gets you access to our Discord, which I always talk about, but it's such a great part of the Patreon membership. Um you get access to discounts from our friends at Kitchen Arts and Sun Letters. Just spoke with Matt who helped me place a good book order.
+
+[3:35] Um yeah, so it's just a great what'd you order? The new disfruitar cookbook from Barcelona. It's a hoide toy, you know, cookbook from Spain that I'm never gonna cook out of, but I'm excited to read it. Is like it's like like a whole chapter just on Boca Ronance or something? No, it's like El Buy Disciples, kind of like documenting and doing what they have been working on over the last three or four years.
+
+[3:59] Yeah. And what is it? Well, I don't know yet. I haven't gotten the book. You didn't look at it in the store?
+
+[4:04] No, I just ordered it online. Oh, all right. It's in Spanish or in English? English. Yeah, or catalog.
+
+[4:10] Yeah, no, Spanish. Um, but not just because my thesis work back at UConn was all about Fraunadria and kind of the food as art kind of thing, which we don't need to get into now. We had this discussion before, but did you ever go to the bully? No, I did not. No.
+
+[4:25] I would like to. Um but yeah, so this place kind of has a similar philosophies and ways of looking at food as he did, so it interests me and looking forward to reading it. Nice. Yeah, all right. Uh anyway, so you were saying about joining the Patreon.
+
+[4:39] Kitchen Arts and Letters. Yeah, Kitchen Arts and Letters. Plenty of great reasons to join. So check it out. Patreon.com slash cooking issues.
+
+[4:45] And actually, for our Patreon members, I think we'd probably like to know who would you like us to have on as guests soon? Um could use some recommendations, things like that. Um so let us know who's of interest. We'll see what we can do. Yeah.
+
+[4:57] Yeah. Oh, and correction before we continue with the show. Maybe last week, you know, time. It blurs, right? Uh I said that uh someone dropped off German ingredients at the bar.
+
+[5:10] Well, Michael D. wrote in, and rightly so. And I Quinn, if Quinn hadn't told me this, I was going to correct myself anyway, because I went and read the label on the grill mustard. Grill Zenf, right? Which comes in a very heavy metal tube, like super heavy metal tube, right?
+
+[5:26] Uh I'm not used to mustard it too, but I kinda like it. It's kind of like feels because it you know, like the those tubes that feel like they're made of lead when you crinkle them, they're so heavy, like old paint tubes. Anyway, uh it says right on it the most popular mustard in Austria in German. So it's in German, but is Austrian. Yeah.
+
+[5:44] All right. Right. That'll be cut like calling a Brazilian person Portuguese, I guess. In a way, but not the same, but I mean, these guys live next to each other anyway. You know what I mean?
+
+[5:53] But anyway, so all the products were uh Austrian, and uh and I uh did a little more research on the beans uh that uh Michael left and uh I'm gonna mis mispronounce it here, but uh like uh uh kaffer. A umlaut, I always get it wrong. I used to know how to say kafir. Uh Kafer Bonin, uh, which are Scarlet Runner beans, but from Austria, where apparently you make the like sinequanon of Austria Austrian bean salads. You make it with this runner bean and the the uh pumpkin seed oil that he left.
+
+[6:28] So now, Michael, I have to at some point soon make this Austrian like r scarlet runner bean salad with the pumpkin seed oil. I'll let you guys know. Uh anyway, all right. So uh go ahead. What do you got?
+
+[6:41] What do you got for the week? Week in review. Other than ordering a book from Kitchen Arsenal Letters. What's it? They don't have yet.
+
+[6:47] No. Well, I that I don't have yes, yes. Um well, I every year around this time of year, my family does like a galette d'Hois, so it's the French equivalent of king cake. I've never had a French one, by the way. Oh, you're missing up.
+
+[7:00] I've had Catalonian ones, I've had Louisiana ones. Oh, they're delicious. I've baked them, but I've never, I've never had a they're so good. Like the almond filling on the inside is just similar to the Catalonian one, right? I've never had the Catalonian ones, so I don't know.
+
+[7:14] Is it when you say French, is it from the Pyrenees? Is it that part of France? No, more northern France. Yeah, yeah. All right.
+
+[7:21] Okay. Like I think Southern France has its own sort of derivative of it. But sanding sugar on top. I don't think so. No, it's just puff pastry, gold.
+
+[7:30] Crazy food colors? No. It's just puff pastry, really, and then almond filling. Um puff pastry from what the research I've been doing, it's brushed with egg yolk and milk. Okay.
+
+[7:41] Um which I never heard of, but I don't know anything about pastry. And where do you order it from? My mom got this one on Goldbelly, but like around here, you can get it from uh Dominique Ansel's place or Danielle Bellou. Does he does he laminate the hell out of it? Do you know that Dominique Ansel will laminate any damn thing?
+
+[7:57] Yep. Yes. Like anything. You're like, like some things he has. You're like, dude, why did you laminate that dude?
+
+[8:04] It's like he doesn't know how not to laminate. It's like, I'm trying to think of like what's the last thing on earth that you would laminate? He'll laminate it. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean?
+
+[8:14] Yes. I don't get it. I mean, he's great. Great delicious, yeah, yeah. But laminate it.
+
+[8:19] Yeah. You know what I mean? Yes. Um But yeah, so the almond filling is like almond flour, some almond extract, orange zest, a little rum, eggs, butter, I think too. Uh yeah, no, definitely butter.
+
+[8:33] Um, and yeah, baked in puff pastry, but I don't know, they one I had last night was just chunky almonds inside. I didn't like chunky almonds. Yeah, like marci penny. Yeah, no. Didn't like that.
+
+[8:45] Here's the thing, you know, you can just buy that stuff. Oh, I'm gonna make this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I mean almond paste. No, I know, yeah, yeah.
+
+[8:51] But I want to make this gotta day one thing. I'm not gonna make mountain puff pastry because f that. But um I used to do it. Yeah. When you did it once, I know how.
+
+[8:59] I used to do it. I used to do it like at least once a week or more. Why? But uh I never did uh see there's a there's ten cooks, ten different puff pastry recipes, right? Yeah.
+
+[9:11] Like, do I make the detent, do I not make the déchomp? You know what I mean? I never did. I used so what I'm talking about is like some people will need flour and like some of the flour with the butter, I guess, to make it more malleable, and then use that as the butter center in between the flour layers. But I'm pretty sure I just use straight butter.
+
+[9:29] I didn't make the flour butter paste. Yeah. It's less it's been so many years. It's been it's less flour than a bermani. It's not one-to-one, I think.
+
+[9:38] I think it's just enough to basically turn the butter into a dough. And I think that the reason is is so that as it's chilled and rolled. The main one of the main difficulties with puff pastry, obviously, when you're using butter instead of a shortening that's made for puff pastry, is they the temperatures need to be just right so that the butter doesn't melt into the flour, but also such that the butter is not so firm that when you roll it out, you tear the the dough that the butter's not so hard that it tears the dough. So it's like this middle zone situation. You know what I mean?
+
+[10:08] Yeah. Um yeah, anyway. I used to be okay at it. Yeah, well, I'll just go buy it. Yeah, who's he gonna buy?
+
+[10:16] Uh he's uh used to work at Danielle here and now has his own line of like charcuterie and frozen doughs and things like that that are pretty good. He makes out in Long Island City, I believe. You can get locally. So Long Island City. Yeah, indeed.
+
+[10:32] A lot of interesting weird things have happened in Long Island City. Yeah. That's where the talking heads are from. Oh, interesting. They had like a loft space out in Long Island City.
+
+[10:40] No, but a lot of uh like commissary kitchens popping up out there doing things like that. And so yeah. All right. But you said that they they so it was chunky nuts and what else? Chunky nuts, and I don't know.
+
+[10:49] I think chunky nuts. There's never the filling to puff pastry ratio is never correct. There's always way too much puff pastry to not enough filling. And they really like layer up the puff pastry on these two. I think like I was looking at it.
+
+[11:02] So you're like Nastasia with tamales. You want more filling, less mass. Like I was looking up David Liebovitz's recipe for this, and he takes like two puff pastry sheets, stacks them on top, then filling, and then double puff pastry sheets on top too. It's just like that's that's too much. Whatever.
+
+[11:21] Personal preference, I get that. But uh, but yeah, that's my gripe for today. Are you one of these sharp knife, don't crush the edges of the puff pastry? Oh, I don't care about that. Want to get to the filling.
+
+[11:31] No, no, I meant when you're when you're when you're forming the stuff. No, you remember when they say you're forming it, like they used to be like if you just push the cookie cutter in, you'll you'll crush the dough levels together. You know what? You know what? Forget it.
+
+[11:43] Do you remember this? For the those of you that are old enough. Do you remember that people used to always like do like a like a wheel pinking shear cut on the side of puff pastry, get the weird little sawtooth action on the side. Super goofy. Yeah, unnecessary.
+
+[11:58] Uh wait, what are people's current thoughts on grill marks on food? Hopefully, dying out. I think they're trash. Okay. This isn't it.
+
+[12:09] What about anyone else on the phone? Jack, Quayne, what are your thoughts on grill marks? Like on a fish, sure, but on meat and chicken, no. Are they gone? Are they dead?
+
+[12:20] Yeah, they must be, yeah. I don't know. But uh I here's the issue with it. Like, if you used to read like a lot of the professional recipes and manuals back in the like 90s, early 2000s, they would literally just put grill marks on it, the quadriage marks, as like a sign of cooking. Yep.
+
+[12:39] And so it might as well just be it's it's like the it's like just like the the hunk of parsley that you throw on a plate for no reason, right? Not fried parsley, which is delicious, but just parsley. What the hell is that all about? You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[12:52] So anyway, uh I also therefore became a hater of quadriage marks. And then it got to the point, no offense for those people out there who love these, but the grill pan was invented. In fact, I was gifted one by my family, right? And if you don't know what I'm talking about, it's a cast iron pan, often enameled on the outside, which I don't know why. But then uh with like a grill mark in it, the idea that you can put grill marks using your stove, but they don't cook food, the grill pan.
+
+[13:19] They don't cook the food. You know what I mean? So it's like I don't really I don't I don't understand them. Yeah. I don't understand them.
+
+[13:27] No, not a fan. Yeah. No. Uh good. Yeah.
+
+[13:30] Especially like when you see it when you're at a restaurant and you get the really wan grill marks where it's like literally like it was on that grill for the minimum length of time to leave those little sad pale. Yeah. Yeah. Not a fan. Not a fan.
+
+[13:43] Unnecessary. I'd rather have every the whole piece of meat have that color. Yeah, we know you didn't cook it on a real grill, dude. You know what I mean? Just pan, like pan that sucker.
+
+[13:53] Let's get like a crust across the whole thing. Broil that sucker. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[13:59] People want to grill at home. They're not coming out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[14:02] Or use a real grill. Like be one of those restaurants that uses a real grill. In which case you're cooking it. Yeah. Why did you pick it up and move it 45 degrees?
+
+[14:12] Exactly. Did you not know when you were supposed to pick it up and flip it? Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[14:18] I don't know. Not for me. Listen though. If you serve it and you love it, I'm not against you doing it. I don't want to do it.
+
+[14:24] Same. I don't enjoy it. Yeah. Yeah. Not how I would do it.
+
+[14:27] Yeah. Do we have these fools back yet or no? We haven't. All right. So what what do you guys think of uh grill marks on food?
+
+[14:35] Look at I I I don't I don't mind them if they are a byproduct of grilling. Like if you if it's something delicate and you don't want to manipulate it a lot on the grill, then therefore it produces grill marks. I don't mind that, but yeah, I'm also anti- uh grill pan or other such the classic grill marks though are uh are an actual sign of manipulation because they the recipes used to be put it down, pick it up too early, turn it not, you know, turn it 90 degrees or 40, whatever they say to do to get the quadriage marks so that the grill marks are crossing each other. So it's like literally a sign that you touched it too much. You know what I mean?
+
+[15:20] They weren't doing like the old Harold McGee where like you know, flip the burger every 10 seconds, right? Which is more of a it's a different phenomenon, but yeah. Against uh against, all right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Same, same.
+
+[15:32] I I echo Quinn's sentiment exactly. Yeah, yeah. Like it's un unnecessary. Like uh sorry. I I kind of I go back and forth.
+
+[15:41] So like if I haven't had something for a long time and someone presents me with an unnecessary flourish at a restaurant, I'm always like, oh, you know what I mean? Yeah. But you know, in general, for my own life, I'm not so much with the unnecessary flourish. I'm with the unnecessary work for minor improvement. That's my whole life philosophy.
+
+[15:59] Unnecessary, ridiculous amount of work for minor improvements. That's you know, my motto. Yeah. Uh that's what I just does that fit in the same category as the flourish. Oh, yeah.
+
+[16:14] Well, in in my in my bar life, obviously, there is no unnecessary garment, although we have them now, you know, like uh there's a couple of stupid unnecessary garnishes at the bar because I said I don't really care anymore, do what you like. You know what I mean? But me personally, I don't come up with them. Like now, if you were gonna make some sort of like Rube Goldwater like mousetrap game garnish that like, you know, like took like five minutes to like operate and the ball went around, and like all of a sudden now you had a line out the door from like insta jerks like putting it online. I'm for that because I'm for business.
+
+[16:46] You know what I mean? But uh now I gotta design something like that. My next thing that I want to build that I haven't had time to build because I don't have time to build it, is I'm I'm finally gonna get the pinata machine going. I'm finally gonna get a pinata service at the bar. It's been decades that I've wanted a pinata service.
+
+[17:03] Now describe that. So when Booker and Dax first opened in like 2012, the the bar, uh 2011, 2012, something like that. Like, I wanted to just hang pinatas, and then you could just order a pinata, and we will go outside and smack it, right? As part of the service. And we would fill it with all kinds of cool candies.
+
+[17:25] And the chef was like, no. I was like, okay. You know what I mean? So then we would only have pinatas for special occasions. So like, remember, at Booker and Dax, we had a baseball bat and existing conditions, and also at Contra, we have a baseball bat that hangs, and everyone who works signs the bat.
+
+[17:44] So I have the XCON bat, the, you know, the existing conditions bat. I have the I have the Booker and DAX bat with all the bartenders, all the servers, all the like the runners, everyone that's ever worked, they've signed a bet. And uh occasionally at Booker and DAX and I at XCON, they would get me a pinata for you know, not during service time, and you would pick up the bat and hit the hell out of the pinata with a real bat, not with a stick, and with no blindfold. So the bat's not for intimidation, it's just for the beating of the pinata. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[18:17] Okay, cool. So they got me once, uh, I don't know, this was like 2014 or something like this. They got me a chili pepper pinata, and they hung it up at Booker Index, and I uh I didn't know this. I thought it was filled with candy. They filled it with airline bottles of liquor.
+
+[18:34] I hit it, they didn't expect me to do this. I hit it as hard as I could with a baseball bat, and the pinata exploded and shot. We used to have this long hallway between the bar and sombar, which was not a bar, but it was a restaurant, and and it just like rained airline bottles into their space during service. They got real mad. I got real mad.
+
+[18:55] It's like have some have some fun. Have some fun. Anyway, I then what? Why didn't they expect you to hit the pinata? Yeah, I don't know.
+
+[19:08] It's a good question. It's an excellent question. Uh interestingly, some of the airline bottles survived. You know? Um, so some of them were plastic, I think.
+
+[19:18] Those are, I think the one and so at existing conditions, I wanted to build an automated because they're like, you can't hand, and this is true, you can't hand someone a stick or a bat after you've also handed them an alcoholic drink, even if they are not visibly inebriated, right? Right? Bad idea. Having them swing a bat in a c in an in in a closed restaurant when you're serving liquor, or probably anytime. So I wanted to build a machine that would just explode a pinata, right?
+
+[19:51] So I tried to build something with a compressed air tank and like a big solenoid valve. And the problem was I I never sealed, I got a donkey pinata, and I hooked up this like like air cannon to the donkey pinata, but it didn't somehow the donkey was too leaky, so it just looked like it was blowing candy out of its rear end, right? So it's kind of a failed failed thing. But I think I have it figured out now. I'm building a pinata destroying thing out of garage door springs.
+
+[20:21] So it's just got like a crossbow latch on it, and like and then and so then you when you press it, it releases and the the bat attached to the garage door torsion springs, wham, smashes this, smashes the donkey. Perfect. I'm assuming we're gonna start with donkeys. That's kind of like the standard piñata is a donkey. Right?
+
+[20:41] Yeah. Wouldn't you say? Yeah, I guess. Yeah, yeah. I haven't done pinadas in a very long time.
+
+[20:44] So the standard American, obviously, the actual real standard pinata is like a clay ball with spikes coming off of it that is wrapped in paper mache. Like that's the originals, like round with like star-shaped things coming off of it. But I'm talking about like standard whitebred American pinata donkey, I think. Spirit animal. Yeah.
+
+[21:07] Yeah. Donkey. Yeah. They're they're uh interesting animals. Do you know that uh I have never seen, although I heard someone call in to a radio show, the miniature donkey that carries beers.
+
+[21:21] Have you seen these? You hire them for your event. It's a miniature donkey with saddles on it that just walks around your event with a bunch of chilled beers in its in its side saddles. And I'm like, Nastasi and I were gonna try to get it for the for one of the parties we were gonna do, but I don't know. Never never worked out.
+
+[21:38] Never worked out. All right, Jack, what do you got for us, man? Rent a donkey. Rent a donkey. I'm uh headed to New Orleans for my 40th birthday, and uh just in time for record freezing lows, so I'm excited about that.
+
+[21:52] Record freezing lows means what though? Like how freezing is freezing? And they say low of 25. Oh, that's real, dude. So that's yeah.
+
+[22:00] Happy 40th, dude. Thanks. Where are you gonna where are you gonna go? Do you have reservations yet or what? Yeah, I'm gonna check out uh St.
+
+[22:09] Germain. Um supposed to be great. I'm really excited about that. Nice. How long are you going?
+
+[22:17] So the fun thing is I'm going for like 10 days. I'm gonna work from work remote out of there. So I'm just gonna kind of post up. All right. Hang out.
+
+[22:26] So you have you I mean, do you go a lot to New Orleans or no? Yeah, yeah, I love it there. Hey, when I was a kid, I used to like going to that place, Cohen's. It sells like coins and antique guns and antique swords. You ever go to that place?
+
+[22:41] I've not. That's a great tip though. Yeah, it's in the quarter. You go there and you kind of pretend that you're gonna buy some sort of crazy antique, like Napoleonic era gun. And of course you don't, because what the hell are you gonna do with it?
+
+[22:53] You know what I mean? What the hell are you gonna do with that? I mean hang it up. I don't know. Wow, I'm looking at the site now.
+
+[23:00] This looks awesome, actually. But what I wanted to buy is um they're uh what's the name of it? Like they they they sell the the coin like uh I think they're called Pikayunes that the that the newspaper is named after like this like Louisiana like little coin. Anyway, whatever. Um, uh nice.
+
+[23:19] Uh what do you got, Quinn Quinn? Before we get into these questions. Uh yeah, uh the made more baguettes, getting slightly better at the end. How are your baguettes? Speaking of which.
+
+[23:33] They're good. I mean baguette. We know baguette, not actually the good sandwich bread, but bon me bread. So I know John might be working on some sandwiches going forward. What are your thoughts on the on making Bon Me style bread?
+
+[23:45] What were you talking about? Are you allowed to talk about it? Yeah, why not? Meatball sub. Meatball sub on the Bon Me bread.
+
+[23:50] It's the way to go. Here's my other issue with uh Meatball Sub. Here's my other uh issue with meatball subs is that I find that they lack acid. Yeah. They're poorly acidified.
+
+[24:01] Yeah. Is this a school group? It's gotta be, man. Some all girls school, yeah. They're just they're going for it.
+
+[24:08] Uh so I've never baked Bon Me bread. Have you? I have not. I've heard there's a lot of finagling to it. I mean, just f follow one of the 8,000 recipes.
+
+[24:18] They have contests for it every year. The stuff is incredibly well documented. I mean, that's the thing about it. I know Andy Rickard did a lot of research on it recently. He was posting about it on Instagram.
+
+[24:28] Wisconsin trials and tribulations about baking bon me bread. Yeah. All right. So uh your baguettes, how are they turn it out, man. Okay, they're turning out pretty good.
+
+[24:38] I just finished reading uh modern baking at home, the truncated version. So I'm gonna try a few tricks. Like what? Um well again I'm using 40% high extraction flour. So I want to push the hydration up a little bit.
+
+[25:02] But obviously, I don't want it to be harder to handle. I mean, standard brickett's a white flower game, though. I mean it's a white flower game. I'm not making standard bags. White flour.
+
+[25:14] White flower game. So that's why I don't make them. I want to try. I'm I'm gonna try some a little a little little little bit of a gelatin in the water. Why?
+
+[25:27] To make it handleable as I increase the hydration slightly. But if you're using if you're using high if you're using high extraction flour, it's already got more bran in it, so it's gonna absorb more water anyway. Yeah, but I'm finding it's still kind of slacking a little. Why gel it's like one of the things that they do? Because that stuff's only gonna give body when it's cold.
+
+[25:53] Like why not? They recommend it to help to help make it shapeable. But like why would you do why would you do that? Why gelin? Why would you do that as opposed to let's say like uh prehydrated starch, let's say.
+
+[26:12] Oh, speaking of weird things to try out, get this. So I think I said last week that I've been kind of deep diving into crisp old Crisco recipes. Proctor and Gamble, so I'm very curious about uh Procter and Gamble invented Crisco. Uh they sold off the Crisco brand 20 years ago to someone who sold it again. So all their archives are gone.
+
+[26:36] So I called the chief archivist from Procter and Gamble because I was like, I want to know who your bakery team was, because they had a different team for professional industry people versus home people, and the recipes are different, right? Different flowers, different things. And they sold it, and the the second time it got sold it, the archives got quote unquote donated to Smithsonian. But I cannot find who in the Smithsonian has these things. They're probably like in like some Raiders of the Lost Ark situation, like buried, not digitized.
+
+[27:03] Waiting to be accessioned kind of a thing. Now, if you want to know about the stuff that Procter and Game, if you want to know about Ivory Soap, I can give you the name of everyone who ever made ivory soap. You know what I mean? Because they still have the archives for ivory soap. But Crisco, nothing.
+
+[27:18] But there was in the I think 40s through whatever. So the original Crisco, for those of you that don't know what Crisco is, it's just hydrogenated uh vegetable oil. Originally, actually cottonseed oil. So it was a way to take cotton seed oil, which was not like useful and crappy. They first they figured out how to deodorize it, then they figured out how to hydrogenate it.
+
+[27:39] So it was sold as like hyper pure. They never really talked about cotton seed oil, right? Because it didn't have such a great name. But like Chris, the co in Chris Co. is cottonseed oil, crystallized cotton seed oil that was then fluffed.
+
+[27:53] Uh and so it's zero percent water. So they did and it's very neutral and stable, right? So that was what they based everything around: purity, stability, neutrality. So they wanted you to just note how incredibly neutral it was as opposed to other fats like lards, which you know people love now, but back then when they couldn't achieve neutrality, they're like, oh, neutral is good, right? So it was sold on those kind of things.
+
+[28:14] And also remember, it came out pretty soon after the Pure Food and Drug Act. So it, you know, Crisco came out, I don't know exactly when, but sometime around like 1910, 1912, and Pure Food and Drug Act in 1906, right? Around then. And so it's like people were worried about purity standards at the time. Then also they got to sell it as uh they have a whole uh set of early recipe books before World War II aimed at Jewish housewives because Crisco is inherently parf.
+
+[28:44] And so they're saying you can use it, you don't have to store it in the fridge, and you can use it for both meat and dairy dishes. So reading all this old interesting stuff, but they kind of went against this grain somewhat. They came out with a product, I don't know exactly when, called Golden Fluffo. Have you heard of Golden Fluffo? No.
+
+[29:01] So Golden Fluffo is Crisco that's been whipped because one of the other things they say is they whip it for easy handling. So it creams well into cakes. So like they like the a lot of the like once they develop this creaming process further, they show these cakes that are made with Crisco, and oh goodness, they're so amazing because they've already been kind of pre-fluffed, so there's already kind of aerated a little bit. So that doesn't gonna help that's not gonna help you if you melt your Crisco to fry in and then re fry with it. But golden fluffo, they add beta carotene to it, right?
+
+[29:32] Now, I believe that they literally added beta carotene. So they weren't using like red palm oil. You can now buy neutral red palm oils that don't have flavor. I have not bought them, but you can buy them. I looked it up.
+
+[29:42] But beta carotene, if you heat your oil high enough, it can you can dissolve it into um into your thing. And the colors they got on their fried foods, amazing. So they have all of these ads from like the 50s where they're like the right hand of the pan is fried in golden fluffo and the left hand left side of the pan is fried in regular oil, or they'll have the right side is a tray of biscuits made with golden fluffo and the left side is a tray of biscuits made with just and like the little bit of orange and the browning you get out of it, so guess what I did? I ordered I ordered a bag of beta carotene to show up at my house. Now I can't fry yet until my new hood shows up.
+
+[30:24] You know, more on that when it when it shows up. But uh so I'll let you guys know my experiments with beta carotene melted into my fry oil. So now, Dave. Uh-huh. I actually have like relevant.
+
+[30:38] They still have it's not called golden fluffo. I actually just bought Crisco Gold. Which is a lightly colored, and I believe probably like um what's the butter flavor? Yeah, golden fluffo is not butter flavored. Golden butter, golden fluffo, but but like so I wonder whether there's as much beta carotene in golden crisco as there was in as there or yellow, whatever, as there was in golden fluffo.
+
+[31:10] I'll have to try it out. I just bought them. Yeah. So I'm gonna like I'm you have to heat up to really get a like a decent amount of berry, but I don't know how much beta carotene I'm gonna add to it, but you need to heat it up to about 150 C, 140, 150 C to get it to go in really, really well, and then kind of probably recrystallize and whip it to get it back to where to the golden fluffo standard. You know what I mean?
+
+[31:32] But uh we'll see. We'll see. I'll let you guys, I'll I'll let you is know. What I really want to do, what if what if you melted the butt real butter, right? Then added the beta carotene, like to clarify butter, save the milk solids, and then when it gets warm when it gets warm, re whip it with the milk solids in it.
+
+[31:51] Because you know what the clarified butter for baking, unless you need it to be clarified, you lose so much flavor with milk solids, you know what I mean? But what if we made a golden fluffo? But it clarify would be better for frying, but I mean for for biscuits. Oh yeah. That'd be good.
+
+[32:07] Yeah, golden butter, golden butter fluffoe for biscuits. Yeah. There's experiments to be done. Because here's what I don't think is true. You know how everyone says, oh, you need the water content in your butter to get puff or flakiness?
+
+[32:22] It's not true. It can't be true because the shortenings that were designed for this very purpose don't have water in them. So if you can make, and I don't believe even I don't even believe that puff pastry shortenings have water emulsified into them, but I could be wrong because I didn't look it up before I came on air. But I think the it's just a function of separation and not a function of the water vaporizing in the butter itself causing uh flakiness because there's enough water in the dough matrix to flash and to create the separation in between the layers of fat, and it's the fat alone that's important. Does that make sense?
+
+[33:03] You believe that also don't don't people say that European or French style butter is better than that? They say it's better because there's more fat and less water. They do say that. The water puffing. They do say it.
+
+[33:20] I don't know if it's true, but they do say it. I know. Same thing. Your theory would align with that. If it's actually just the fat separation that is important.
+
+[33:32] Yeah. When I'm making fresh butter, I need it, but I don't rinse it. I think it tastes better like fresh butter. It doesn't keep as long, but when you're making your own butter, I never I never rinse it or soak it. I do like light kneading to get some of the stuff out, make it somewhat homogenous, but I leave more whey in it.
+
+[33:50] I think I like I like the taste of it better. Um you know there was a Kerry Gold recall. Oh, yeah, what'd they do? Is it's just old poop butter. Is this the poop butter?
+
+[34:00] No, it's not poop butter. It has to do with the packaging that is uh was there's a there was a poisonous leak or something that um altered the butter that made it um yeah non non savory. Yeah, I think it was only the gold foiling. Who had the poop butter though? There was a company that made butter that had poop in it, not human poop.
+
+[34:21] Let's see. Cabot? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a recall. Wow, last April.
+
+[34:26] Yeah, yeah. It's a poop, a poop recall. Yeah. Poop butter. Potential.
+
+[34:32] Potential potential potential. Don't go slandering that company like that. So if I had potential to it, it's all right. I guess. Some people say.
+
+[34:40] Some people say the butter had poop in it, then it's allegedly poop. There we go. Allegedly. Allegedly poop uh laden butter. So while we're on the uh subject of uh old oldie timey things, I just uh I got an so Hamilton Beach mixers, right?
+
+[34:57] So like the old milkshake mixers, like um Mike Capafari at Thunderbolt and Night on Earth in LA, he loves them. And Garrett Richard, obviously at Sunken Harbor Club, lerves them. It has been telling me for years together, and I never got one. And I think I might have said this on air before, but I realized that the original Hamilton Beach like milkshake mixers were badged Arnold. AR, my name, like last name, Arnold.
+
+[35:18] And so I picked one up, like patent, probably early 20s, Patent Date 1919, Jadite base, model number 17. So it doesn't require, it's pre- it's grease lubricated and it doesn't have oil spouts. The earlier ones you have to actually oil them. And it came beautiful. Chrome, decent shape, everything good.
+
+[35:35] I needed to rewire it, right? Because like the wires, first of all, you know, old wires have asbestos in them. Just to let you know, old wires have asbestos in them. So like cut them off, throw them away. So I'd start rewiring it and then I take it apart.
+
+[35:47] I take the motor apart, I clean the motor, I you know, renew the brushes, I've sand the commentator down and put it all back together. But I I can't get the actual switch out of it because I can't separate. I've put a bore scope into it, so I now understand that if I ever want to actually take it fully apart, I need to make a one-inch uh um pipe with a notch in it that I can jam into it and use as a wrench to separate the two things off. But anyway, so I'm like, you know what to hell with it? The switch is still operational, so I'm gonna use the original wire that I can't cut off.
+
+[36:18] So when I put the new cord on and jammed it back in, the the insulation is so brittle that it the insulation cracked, touched the side of the unit, but I didn't I didn't test both sides of the plug to the unit. I just tested both sides of the plug against each other, and they were okay, they weren't grounded. So I plugged it in and then touched my countertop and the unit at the same time. Boom! Yeah.
+
+[36:46] Blew me, blew me back. So yeah. So now I now I have to uh I I have to slide insulation over the wire up into the unit and then rebolt it back together for it to work. But it works like a dream. That motor is still going strong, like over a hundred years old, a motor's a demon.
+
+[37:02] Don't make things like they used to. Yeah, you have to be careful when you take it apart. Like it's non the bearings are non-standard, so you have to be a little bit careful that you take pictures as you go, but it's pretty sweet. The other one, I saw when I was researching all this garbage, a uh a bunch of cookbooks that were sold on QVC in the late 90s by a woman named Thelma Allen called Recipes from Sweet Yesterday. And I was like, what the hell?
+
+[37:26] They're like five dollars. So I ordered some of them because they have all these old old recipes. And so here's some recipes that I want to search down. One of them, one of them I think she cribbed from a parade magazine in the 60s, because I've done some research on it. But get this it's a cinnamon roll, a quick bread cinnamon roll, so not a yeasted one, but I think you could modify it to be yeasted.
+
+[37:43] So what you do is is you make a basic cinnamon roll. So you make it your dough, you roll it out, cinnamon, sugar, roll it up into pinwheel, cut it, put it in your dish. But then the entire time you're making it, you have boiling apple cider vinegar and sugar in a pan. And right before you bake it, you'll pff and pour the apple cider vinegar and sugar boil boiling over the things and then throw it in and bake it. So I I want to find the original parade version.
+
+[38:13] You know what I mean? Because it claims to be an 1880 recipe. The reason I know that she cribbed it from parade is that on the internet people who do it say that it came from a parade that said a parade magazine recipe that says it's from 1880. So it's too much, too much whatever. So I want to find the original parade magazine, make it maybe I'll tell you guys about it once I once I made it.
+
+[38:31] Is the vinegar like reduced or it's just quickly boiled to dissolve the sugar in the middle of the room? Well, the recipe the recipe clearly says to start it. So some of the some of the more recent ones just say warm over low heat. So I don't know what that means. Her version of the recipe, which I don't know whether it's closer to parade or not, is uh you set it to boil as a first thing while you're making the dough, in which case it will be reduced somewhat.
+
+[38:53] And it's gonna reduce when it's baking, because it's baking for you know a good amount of time. But she says they come out quote unquote golden brown. So you know that by the end of the time the water is evaporated off and you're good to go. So I'm gonna try that. Uh but another weird thing, get this.
+
+[39:09] This is the craziest thing. There's a recipe in it, first of all, for Chinese Christmas cake, has no Chinese ingredients in it whatsoever. And then even worse, even more horrifying, Japanese fruit cake, which I had looked up on the internet, was a Southern American and Appalachian American thing, has nothing to do with Japan. And it's an old recipe from like the early part of the 20th century, has zero Japanese ingredients. It's basically uh it's a spice cake, nutmeg, allspice, cinnamon, and raisins with a coconut pineapple lemon icing.
+
+[39:43] Nothing to do with Japan. It's called Japanese fruit cake, but here's the best part. Underneath the recipe, it says we've been making this like for as long as I can remember, and underneath it it says, we didn't make it during World War II. I'm like, ah it's the craziest thing. Yeah.
+
+[40:01] It's like, oh, we're so anti Japanese that even this thing has nothing to do with Japan, we can't make. It's like the Freedom Fries situation, as though French fries are French. Yeah. Anyway. So stupid.
+
+[40:12] That's my story of that's my old old recipe dive uh for the week. Um Jack, did you what you would what'd you talk about already today? You're going to New Orleans. Oh, New Orleans. Go into New Orleans.
+
+[40:23] Go into New Orleans. You know that when uh Katrina happened, they thought that um uh fat's domino had died and he's like I'm not dead yeah uh found him on the roof yeah yeah he lived for a long time afterwards and he stayed in New Orleans the whole time that's Dino man wow uh Elliot Elliott uh from Berkeley writes in what mesh do I sift to when I'm milling soft wheat for things uh like pancakes also the same question for my Sonoran white flour tortillas or you know what amount do you end up letting through well I don't sift either of those things actually the nice thing about pancakes in general is that uh you could fill them with BBs they don't need that much uh gluten to get them to work so uh you know whenever I used to make pancakes I would just dump up to like 25% of whatever I wanted into the recipe so 25% of the flour in any standard pancake recipe can be replaced with oats or you know just name name the ground up thing of your non-gluten thing of your choice and so for me whenever I do pancakes and I use soft wheat because soft wheat is amazingly delicious uh also like wheat brand wheat brand's a great thing to add to pancakes like standard if you're using white flour get yourself some Kretschmer's wheat brand and uh that stuff is uh not brand germ sorry did I say brand germ wheat germ Kretschmer's wheat germ wheat germ it brand's not delicious don't I want to tell you brand's delicious. But uh wheat germ is delicious. So you sprinkle it into your pancakes. You can use quite a bit of it.
+
+[42:06] And none of these things damage your pancakes or how fluffy they are, especially, you know, with the eggs and like the fact that it's a quick bread and it's thin, like none of that matters. Your pancakes are not going to collapse unless you're a freaking lunatic. You know what I mean? And all of those quote unquote BBs in it uh help to um reduce the toughening that gluten would have if you're using AP flour, let's say, which of course you're not. So you're using soft flour, don't sift it.
+
+[42:30] Don't bother. You know what I mean? Don't or don't you can sift it if you want to like you know get rid of clumps because you packed it, but you don't need to sift it to get the uh stuff out. Uh you especially don't want to take the bran and whatnot out of the uh flour tortillas because you want the maximum water hydration for a given level of machinability. And having the bran in there, uh, first of all, like a lot of the higher protein stuff is right near the bran coating, so you're gonna get a higher protein.
+
+[43:02] And that so what you want with the with the snoring white is not like a lot of snapback, not a lot of gluten activity, but the high protein that gives the kind of texture of the cooked tortilla, so it's not too soft, right? And you want the maximum amount of water for a given dryness that lets you roll it out because it's the water in the tortilla that gives it the puff when you're cooking it on the griddle. So I would not sift it at all. That said, when I do sift flour, and I did make a pie crust, I think I talked about it a couple of weeks ago. I made a pie crust for the uh for my pot pie, and I decided finally to try to make an old school pastry flour, and I sifted uh my soft wheat with through a 60 mesh, uh, which is 250 micron holes PS.
+
+[43:47] That's the whole size. Um, and it made a superior pie crust. It did. But what was the Popeye comment we got, by the way? Did I say that earlier?
+
+[43:59] You said it to me before. No, no, we talked about it, but then John came in and said, Oh, yeah. Oh, just inheritances. Yeah, it's apparently Tucker Carlson. If uh he makes he he's got that Swanson money.
+
+[44:11] His wife, yeah, apparently. She's one of the Swansons. Yeah. Hungry man. Yeah.
+
+[44:16] Hungry man. Yep. Uh all right. So uh okay, covered smothered. Yep.
+
+[44:22] All right. And Elliot wants to know. Nastasia's not here, so I can't ask her, but uh I feel that she he wants to know does Nastasia also hate making your own non pasta noodles because uh because uh Elliot's gonna attempt to make ramen. Yeah, she would hate that. Probably.
+
+[44:39] She would hate that. She'd be like, buy ramen. Yeah, she would hate it. But whatever. I mean, I'm not saying that you have to hate it, but you want to know what Nastasia would think.
+
+[44:47] My guess is she would hate it. I have a quick uh Patreon question. What's that? Uh from Narrowlogic DC. Jack, this applies to you too.
+
+[44:54] I don't know if you saw it in the Discord, but I'm stay suddenly in LA, staying in Culver City from DC on the Jackie Molecule stocking circuit slash for work. Are there any shops with specialty kitchens slash bar supplies that I ought to prioritize? I don't have much control over where my body is until Thursday morning, so I'm hatching a plan for then. Any recs. Yeah, so I said restaurant world was the one rec that I gave, um, which is like a restaurant supply store.
+
+[45:21] I think like kind of near there. Well, maybe more like West Hollywood. Um, but I don't know, Dave, if you had any others. Me? I'm not an LA person.
+
+[45:29] Like you could drop me in LA. I could be like two blocks from where, and you could tell me everything, and I'd be like, what? Listen, if you go to LA, it's just not listen. Listen, go to the Museum of Jurassic Technology. That's the only thing I'm gonna say.
+
+[45:43] And like Nastasia, I don't think's ever been there. Have you ever been there? No, I've never been there. Dummy. Dummy.
+
+[45:52] Go to the Museum of Jurassic Technology. It's I believe close. There's an there's an in and out right there. So if you haven't done that, you know, you can go to the in and out afterwards. And you don't even don't even bother talking about the fries.
+
+[46:03] We know they suck. I don't need to talk about it anymore. It's a known fact. They suck. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[46:09] Real bad. Real bad. Yeah. So like if you want to get the fries at In N Out, bring a deep fat fryer with you, ask for a seat next to a plug, and then do the second fry at the table, and then I'm sure they're gonna be fine. You know what I mean?
+
+[46:22] But that's the kind of content we need to make, Dave. We need you to actually do that. Do you know how much trouble we would get in if we brought a deep fat fryer into an In N Out burger? Like an old school, like legitimate fry daddy, like the little the little fry daddy. Who knows?
+
+[46:40] Yeah, gorilla, gorilla crack. I have a van outside. Yeah. So you need a car with like a real power outlet. So most inverters that plug into cars won't deliver 1750 watts.
+
+[46:54] They're like, so we would need a serious inverter. Or yeah, just buy like a Honda or like rent a Honda generator that can do like a couple thousand watts, like a couple kilowatts. And if you want, I can bring, I can bring my double, my double fryer, that one that like uses two circuits. Brilliant. And then we could fry for everyone in the restaurant and be like, bring your fries.
+
+[47:15] Come on, bring them out. Shh. Anyway. Uh yeah. All right.
+
+[47:21] Um wait, so wait, where were we starting with? Oh, uh, so the Museum of Jurassic Technology is just they don't say what's real and what's fake. Some of it's real, some of it's fake. Gift shop book selection, choice. Choice.
+
+[47:37] Choice. They have like they have like 15 volumes of like the Cat's Cradle Society, like doing all kinds of like, you know, the string tricks from when you're a kid, like all different weird string tricks. They have like, I think, eight or nine volumes of like the British Bell Ringer Society manual there. They have like, it's it's just a place that you just need to go. And all of these morons that live in LA don't go.
+
+[48:03] I don't get it. It's not the Statue of Liberty, it's not just for tourists. Not that the Statue of Liberty is just for tourists, but it is. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[48:11] Or the Circle Line. It's not just for tourists. Although I've said on the air that like, if I could guarantee that when you came to New York and you got on the circle line, you would get the drunk line captain tour guide that I got. I would say that everyone should be forced to take that that trip, but I can't guarantee it. He's he's probably dead.
+
+[48:28] Umsane Irish uh wrote in and said, I am now the proud owner of a Linder Pygmy 25k chiller. So for those of you that have no idea what that is, and that is 99.999% of you. That is the Seltzer chiller that I now have at well, it's for beer. It's a beer chiller that I now have. And so uh unlike an ice bank system, which is what I, you know, what I would use if I could, it only chills one glass at a time, but has a chilled tap.
+
+[48:56] So you take in warm product, it chills like a glass of it at a time, you extract a glass from it, and then in two minutes it'll chill the next glass. So it's got like a it's got like an insulated aluminum thermal block on the inside of it that holds a full drink's worth. That's how that's how it works. And it does two, right? So it's got two tabs one for seltzer water and one in my house that's labeled filth that is flat water um anyway so uh I'm now the proud owner I plan on running one carbonated tap and one flat tap makes sense for whatever reason my unit did not come with any taps at all neither did mine uh my question is whether or not the Becker tap uh I recommend in my YouTube carbonation video will easily mount on it or if I need to look at other options.
+
+[49:36] Okay my taps I did mount them on it. So for those of you that have never run a system with taps before the way that faucets right so if you want to look them up on the web beer faucets or soda taps or soda fountain faucets there's a shank and the shank is uh well by the way you're worried about European threads don't worry about it if it's if it's badged with a US uh which mine was a US power supply on it so it like takes 120 in then it mine took standard beer shanks right so you can swap the beer shanks the problem is the the the actual um the actual backup uh the actual back of the shank wouldn't fit the compensator tap so that was the issue so I had to swap out the I had to swap out the shanks but the fitting on the back of the shanks works fine so you can put regular regular taps on it. The one modification you really should do is you should buy uh a quiet fan because the fan that's on them is really loud. Uh they are the one I used that is much quieter is the AC Infinity 120 millimeter by 38mm low speed AC fan. It's a direct swap in for the fan that's on there, and it knocks the sound uh that the thing makes down by like three quarters.
+
+[50:54] So if you're gonna have it in a kitchen the the fan that's on it is just intolerably loud. So that's the one thing I would do. But I have my regular taps on it. It fit uh American uh threads fine, but I did have to switch the shank. All right?
+
+[51:08] Is that covered? Smothered. Uh all right. Hey, uh Lionel Hutz, uh, I assumed, oh, by the way, I have a new system coming. We'll see.
+
+[51:19] I bought another, it's partially Linder, partially another corporation, because the problem with the Linder Pygmy, aside from the noise, which I fixed, and aside from the fact that you can only draw one cup and then you have to wait two minutes, and my family always comes and pulls an entire picture of seltzer thinking that it's like the way it used to be, where I had an ice bank that could pull infinite seltzer and stay at temperature. My old system, I could just sit there and pull the tap. You could set a timer for five minutes, come back, and the glass that you put underneath when it was running continuously for five minutes, would still be ice cold, right? This can't do that, right? Because you're not storing up the energy that way.
+
+[51:56] Uh so I have a new system coming, though, because the one thing that I don't like about it is that it's got the big unit on top of the counter, which is fine for going to events, but in the kitchen it takes up counter space. So I'll let you know in a couple weeks if this thing ever shows up uh off of eBay that I bought, uh, I'll talk about it. Uh Lionel Hutz, I assume Dave will probably get into it in the next episode, but in case I do not, I wanted to ask if I could break down my setup for using a pressure cooker to inject steam into an oven. Would this work on most home ovens or just the Bosch one that I have? Okay.
+
+[52:27] I'm assuming that most people out there, if they can have electric ovens, right? I have a gas oven. So the thing about gas ovens is that they must have uh relatively easy to uh uh access vents, right? Because you're burning gas in them, right? So they make combustion.
+
+[52:43] Now, electric ovens also have vents. So um I don't know where they are in your oven. Uh for instance, like I'm thinking of making a steam injector for my Breville Smart Toaster oven because it's already in pretty bad shape anyway, but there's no obvious way to uh get a tube without drilling a hole in it, right? Which I think I'm willing to do. I'm willing to drill a hole in it, right?
+
+[53:06] In the Bosch, uh I have a boroscope, right? I have a flexible boroscope, so I looked into the vent to see where it was going, and I just kind of figured out how long it needed to be. I had a bunch of quarter inch stainless steel tubing lying around, and because who doesn't, right? And uh I was gonna build a chiller at one point, like a wart chiller with it. So actually, no, I was gonna build a rotovap with it.
+
+[53:30] Anyway, so I uh just bent I kept on bending the thing until it could fit into the vent. So it's like just uh it's a I can put it on the Patreon, the shape that it I used, and then you just have it into the vent, it lays in there, and then the the gr the grid, right, the spider for the uh burners fits right over it, so you don't even see it's there. I put a slight flare into the end of the tube so that when you shove the silicone onto it, it will um you can put a clamp over it. And I use squeeze clamps so that it won't pop off. But it's not under a lot of pressure, so you don't need to worry about it, right?
+
+[54:06] So then on the pressure cooker side on the Coon Recon, I bought quarter inch hose barb like through bulk bulk bulk uh head connectors off Amazon, like cheap, stainless, and one part screws on and one part doesn't. So the part that is solid, I put an O ring on, drilled an eight millimeter hole uh on the other side of the uh of the first, like, you know, the first release on the on the Coon Recon lid, screwed it in with the with the uh what's it called? The O-ring underneath so that it automatically seals, tightened it down. Then you put silicone over it, silicone tube, quarter inch silicone tube, hose clamps, and then I just used a pair of hemostats to with hemostats. So I stole all my hemostats in the 1970s when my mom was like, you know, in med school and intern residency, and I used to hang out at Columbia Presbyterian Babies Hospital.
+
+[54:53] I would just steal hemostats and I would use them. So I always just had hemostats around the house. So anytime that you're like, I'm gonna want to, yeah, well, yeah, I guess they would make a good roach clip, Joe's telling me. You know what I mean? Mine don't grip fine stuff anymore because I used to use them for soldering, so I would get like soldering gunk all over them.
+
+[55:09] And but yeah, hemostats are God's tool. Like if they're good enough to clamp your blood vessels from bleeding, they'll work on a silicone tube. You know what I mean? Anyway. Uh and the other trick is is that you want to really heat up a good amount of water because you want to build up, as they say, a good head of steam.
+
+[55:25] Uh and mine can steam for at least at least 10 minutes, because that's what I did. And it didn't drop all the way down pressure. I mean, it wasn't delivering as much, but it gives a very satisfying sound, which I don't think probably came through on the video. When you open the hemostats up, it goes and you're like, yeah, baby. But once I hook up the Breville toaster, that's gonna be like it's the overkill anyway, right?
+
+[55:50] So like I have to figure out the thinnest area of the brevel so I can drill and put the bulkhead fitting into it. I'll let you know when I do it. I've got to find the thinnest, least. I mean, my my Brevel's way out of warranty. Like all the knobs on the front are melted off.
+
+[56:05] You know what I mean? Of course. Because I used to have it above my my stove, and my stove was well, it was six twenty-five plus, 30 30 K BTU burners, right? So when I would do all of my stone bowls, I would crank them and just like it if you felt like you were like working at Tepanyaki station, like your face was getting grilled off. You know what I mean?
+
+[56:27] So all the knobs on the front of the of the toaster melted. And you know, my family's like, this is not okay. I'm like, it is what it is. Like, I'm like, yeah, no choice, no problem. And guess what?
+
+[56:39] It still makes toast. Still makes toast. You know what I mean? Uh oh, by the way, back to what Michael said. I used that mustard.
+
+[56:46] So I'm I did an extra fillip to my, I did my grilled cheese tomato. This this week's family dinner was grilled cheese tomato soup. You know, and uh, you know, I put Harvey's bristle cream, that's my special secret sauce in my in my tomato soup. Other than cooking a ridiculous amount of onions for like an hour and a half on the induction on the induction burner so that they're super caramelized. The other secret recipe, the ingredient, you know, cream, obviously, and better than bouillon, no beef uh beef stock flavor, is uh yeah, Heartwich Bristol cream.
+
+[57:15] But the fillip that I added to my Gruyere grilled cheese, because I do like I do multiple grilled cheeses. This week my Italian grilled cheese had pesto on it, which I hadn't done before. Pesto mozzarella, like a parmesan fricot outside, mozzarella inside with a pesto, very low on oil. So you make a very dry pesto with almost no oil in it, but pignolis and and parmesan, basil, salt, a little bit of uh lemon peel, garlic, right? And then you wipe that on, then mozzarella, then the other top layer of bread, frico with the parm with the palm, good.
+
+[57:49] But the fillip that I'm talking about is my Gruyere on pumpernickel with caramelized onions, which is one of my standards, I put the Austrian mustard on. Okay. As a win. A little bit of sugar in the Austrian mustard. Nice.
+
+[58:01] Nice. Semi-sharp. Horseradish. Uh anyway. All right.
+
+[58:05] Uh, WTS writes: I'm reading fermented vegetables by Christopher and uh Kirsten Shockley and have a couple lacto fermenting questions. Uh, I remember Dave saying that I pull a vacuum on mason jars to store grain. Would there be a benefit to pulling a vacuum on a lactoferment to help limit oxygen? Um if you seal it, it's gonna blow up, right? So, like it's kind of tough.
+
+[58:24] Like you're gonna limit oxygen at the beginning, but what you have to do is prevent oxygen from getting back in after the CO2 forms from the lactic acid bacteria. So, what I recommend if you're doing mason jars is they make what look like little baby bottle fittings. They're like nipples, like nipples that you put on, and then uh that's what I'd recommend, not necessarily sucking a vacuum. We used to use uh vacuums on vacuum bags, but not in jars for that because you can't seal them, although they'll puff and blow. Uh, although I did read a recipe that we're gonna talk about later because we're gonna run out of time of fermented gingerbread that you have to make it with.
+
+[58:55] It's a honey, you looked it up. It's a honey, it's a honey gingerbread. You add the spices later, but you ferment it for like three months before you bake it. We'll talk more about that later. Nathan from Apalachio writes in huge fan of the show, avid listener, for over a decade now.
+
+[59:07] I'm a professional chef looking for recommendation for my next circulator. I want something with analog controls. It doesn't require me to use my phone to work. I've been looking at the poly science creative series, but I'm looking for the most powerful one on the market that can handle large water baths for big cooks. Price is not an issue.
+
+[59:21] Uh, thanks for your recommendation. Well, the price is all over the map. I I have not bought all the old circulators are 750 watts, and that's not what you're looking for. And they the other thing is that I'll say this because I'm gonna run out of time. Oh, Rock Baker wants to know what kind of glass I use for red hot pokers.
+
+[59:34] I just use a regular pint glass, like tempered glass pint glass. They work fine. Uh, don't touch it too much with the thing and use a handle hold it away. Back on immersion circulators. Take with a grain of salt how whatever anyone says about how much you can do in it, because the amount of liquid you can use really depends on how uh how hot you want it to be, right?
+
+[59:53] And how well insulated your your container is. But what you want is is you want it to not have to stay on for a long time to maintain heat. So you want it to have enough power that it can be like bip, bip, bip, bit with the heater. Uh, I have never used one, but uh they can range from $2,000 down to $100. But the most powerful one I saw uh that plugs into a regular socket is $1,800 watts, made by Winko, right?
+
+[1:00:19] So I don't think anything is gonna freaking matter. They I they all can control to within a tenth of a degree and they're accurate. Some say within a half a degree, some say within a a degree. These all these cheap ones are relatively manual. So the Winco 1800 ESVI, I have no experience with it.
+
+[1:00:35] I would just use one of them. But if you really want cheap and you want to see whether it does what you want, Vivor, who like manufactures all of these things in China, puts their badge on it and ships it in, has a 1500 watt unit, so about twice what a normal circulator is for $97. So you can get five of them for the price of one of the other ones. So I would give it a test and see whether whether you like it. Um yeah, so like looks like 1800 watts is the upper limit, but I would go at least 1500 if you want to really get double the old thing.
+
+[1:01:03] Anyway, I don't have experience with them, so I can't recommend them personally. Uh see you guys next week. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City New Stand Studios. Joined as usual with John, how are you doing? Doing great, thanks. Great.
+
+[0:21] Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels behind me. What's up? Hey, hey, hey. Welcome to the show. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[0:27] Going uh in the upper left over there, we got Quinn on the island of Vancouver. How you doing? I'm good. Good, good. We got uh Jackie Molecules back uh from uh New Orleans, do we?
+
+[0:38] Yes, sir. I'm back. Nice, nice. And then uh joining hopefully a little late in the program, we will have Nastasia the Hammer Lopez, uh also from Los Angeles. But today's special guest in the studio is yeah, I don't think you've been here, but you were on the in the old podcast.
+
+[0:54] I think this is my first time. You weren't in the old podcast when when your taco book came out. Well, anyway, let's let them know who uh maybe I had Jordana on. Maybe. Anyway.
+
+[1:02] We can talk about tacos if you want to. We will, we will, we will. We have Alex Stupa, owner of the Empeon uh Empire here in New York City, which is uh three restaurants. Uh author, James Beard uh nominated author of the book Tacos, which is by the way, 10 years old now. So we'll you know we'll talk about that because I know there'll something about you know, a little over 10 year old books.
+
+[1:29] Uh and uh former uh former, but once again on TikTok, acclaims pastry chefs. Um uh how is this substack new? I was reading through your substack today. It's pretty new. New age.
+
+[1:42] I think I'm like four or five post deep. Yeah, the sweet release, which is death. Right? It could be that. It could be because I'm writing about dessert every now and then, or it could just be like, hey, sweet, I just released a new lot of different things.
+
+[1:56] Oh, yeah. I was uh I was at um I was at a concert actually. It was uh Deltron 3030s, uh like you know, read comeback tour, and I was I was backstage. Wow. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[2:07] And and uh someone who is, you know, uh with Dell, I was talking to him, but it's like I was like, Yeah, they're like, you know, yeah, it's all okay, and until it's not. He's like, What do you mean till it's not? You're talking about the sweet, sweet release of death? And and I was like, Okay. Okay.
+
+[2:23] And then it's okay again. Everything's fine. It is or it isn't, right? Uh all right. So uh this is the portion did I miss anything by the way?
+
+[2:33] No, I think that's everything I'm doing right now. Yeah. Uh we'll we'll we'll get it we'll get into it later. But this is the portion of the of the show where we talk about anything preferably semi-culinary related that uh, you know, is happened in the past week, or for you since you haven't been on the show past whenever, anything kind of current that's interesting. And for those who are listening live, you can call in your questions to 917-410-1507.
+
+[2:59] That's 917-410-1507. And John, why don't you tell them how to do that and why they might want to? Go to Patreon.com slash cooking issues. You can see a couple different membership levels that we got there. Each membership has a bunch of different perks.
+
+[3:11] Uh some of them you get access to the live video feed. You get uh questions prioritized during the show. You get access to awesome discounts from Kitchen Arts and Letters and others great partners that we work with. Um so yeah, check it out. Patreon.com slash cooking issues.
+
+[3:26] And you never know because you won't know unless you join. Alex might say something crazy that we have to like get rid of later, like might threaten someone. Who knows? Probably will happen. And you can only get that if you're uh on the on the Patreon.
+
+[3:40] All right, so what what what do we have? Well, let's go do Jack first because he just came back from New Orleans. Anything interesting food-wise? Yeah, I mean, it was a 12-day bender. I ate and drank way too much.
+
+[3:51] But uh I don't know, maybe we print this for next week or or not. But I had I did have a question for you on this, Dave. I had so much freaking gumbo. Um where do you stand on thickness? Because I feel like anytime I follow an authentic recipe at home, authentic in quotes, right?
+
+[4:08] Like just as good a recipe as I can find. Um the authenticity for those recipes is in your hands anyway, not in the papers. Exactly. No, exactly. You're still silly silly words use.
+
+[4:18] But it's always way too thick when I make it. Um and then everything I have in New Orleans, I'm like, this is never like I never get it like that at home. Um, where do you stand on thickness and gumbo? Uh you know, man, like I don't feel like I'm ex expert enough to tell, except for I will tell you this. Here's what you do.
+
+[4:33] Hold back some stuff, hold back, then thicken, then you can adjust later. No, I mean, yeah. No, I mean always hold back. Or if you've overflavored it, don't be afraid to thin it with something that doesn't have flavor. What's your favorite liquid that doesn't have flavor?
+
+[4:48] Water. But you know what I mean? It depends on how much uh stuff you put in. What do you think, Alex? Well, I I think gumbo, it's typically thickened with filet powder, right?
+
+[4:59] So I think philae or okra or both. Right. So I think the viscosity, I I don't have a reference point for it. Right. But I would imagine the the viscosity is a pretty important factor.
+
+[5:09] Yeah, I mean, the thing about both of those, by like both, but it's also got a flower roux as well, right? Isn't there a rhubase too? So it's got really three thickeners. It's got flour, feet well, a possible of three, almost always flour, as far as I can remember. And then either philae or okra or both.
+
+[5:27] But the problem is the thickness that comes from things like okra and even to a lesser extent philae. If you've ever chewed on a sassafras leaf, it's like a little bit slimy. Yeah, yeah, right. So and okra, even more so. So I think if you're over thick from a flour perspective, then you gotta dial back your the flour and your roux.
+
+[5:48] And if you're it's too snotty, then you gotta dial back either your okra or your or your philae. You know, that's that's my feeling. I do you like snotty okra? Not really. No?
+
+[6:04] What about you, Alex? You like snotty okra? I'll eat anything. Do you like snotty? Do you like snotty nopolis?
+
+[6:10] I tend to rub them in salt to get a lot of that out. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Um, then you just have sort of that chewy bite aloe vera texture sort of thing. Which I enjoy a lot.
+
+[6:20] People don't like like I I have a very hard time serving those in a cosmopolitan restaurant. Really? Yeah. Yeah, I think so. It it I think it's a tricky texture for people.
+
+[6:30] Really? Even if you've even if you've done the salt rub and like put like par cooked it before you slice it, if you fry it, you're fine. If you fry anything, you're fine. Fried okra, fried okra is a maze fried okra. Like, like the way God wants you to make okra is to leave it whole, make sure it's not woody, and then deep fry that somewhere with a crispy coating on the outside.
+
+[6:48] The mayonnaise-based sauce. Oh, yeah. That's it. Like you've just won. That's it.
+
+[6:54] You're winning. You know what I mean? Uh I don't mind a little bit of snot. I don't want like mega snot. Right.
+
+[7:01] That's like if you hack up okra real fine, it just goes snot out on you. It's not, it's not me. I'm not saying it's not you, it's not me. But I don't mind a little bit 'cause you know what the thing is that the uh what's it called? The nopolis have it's a little bit of acid that helps.
+
+[7:16] They do. You know what I mean? Right. When you blanch them, they lose their color immediately, like sorrel for the same reason. Yeah.
+
+[7:22] Do you do you have a a technique for scraping the the bullcraps off of them, those little spikies? Yeah, you don't care that much about. So you don't have a magic trick. I always do you cut off the outside rim before or after you scrape it? I scrape then cut the rim.
+
+[7:40] Yeah, me too. Although then I always like sometimes get hit. Oh, that's not so bad. Getting hit with those things is not that bad unless it gets worked into your skin. It's kind of a pain.
+
+[7:49] You know what's really good to do with Nepal is juice it. It makes a really yummy green juice. How but okay, so I have a question for you. Sure. So we used to do a drink back at Booker and Dax, so like, you know, 12 years ago or something, right?
+
+[8:01] That was uh, you know, it was nopolis, like blended with you know, pectanex, the enzyme, into a liquor and it didn't go snotty. And then I tried to recreate it, a similar thing when we opened up uh Contra, and I couldn't get it to work anymore. I couldn't get it to taste good anymore. Do you have recipes like this that like 12 years ago you're like, oh, I we got this, it's dialed in, it's good, and then you try to do it again later and it's like it sucks. Same with pressure cooked mustard seeds.
+
+[8:29] I can't get it to work anymore. They don't taste good to me anymore. Is it my mouth that's changed? Or is it that I do experience that sometimes I feel like it's the latter thing you said. We we've changed.
+
+[8:40] You ever like something you thought that was really good? I've done like desserts like just re like being nostalgic and remaking these like modernist desserts that I've made, and I know people enjoyed them back then, but I make it now, I don't like it as much. Huh. So you but you think it's you. Or the zeitgeist, it's something.
+
+[8:57] Like it's like we've we've moved in a different direction. It's that type of thing. We do have a question on that for later. All right. So uh what else what else you got, Gumble Boy.
+
+[8:59] Oh, too much. Let's move the show along. This this is one of the Discord uh chief complaints that I I agree with. Sometimes you know. Okay, man.
+
+[9:14] Hey man. For me. Hey, okay, dude. All right. Anyone else?
+
+[9:18] John, you got anything? I went to Grano Arso, friend of the show, Joel Gargano. It's a great restaurant. It's always been. Yeah, if you're in that part of Connecticut, definitely worth checking out.
+
+[9:26] Chester, Connecticut, yeah. Yeah, I love Chester. Yeah, great. Chester, the motto they tried to get so Chester is a small town right along the Connecticut River, right? In between uh Middletown, Connecticut, which you've never heard of if you haven't been to Connecticut, and uh Old Sabre, which you've also, unless you know who Catherine Hepburn is, you never heard of that place either.
+
+[9:46] But that's where it is. And their motto is Chester, it's a walking town. And you're like, well, but you can't walk to it, and there's only like so much you can do in Chester. I love Chester, by the way. I'm a bootful.
+
+[9:58] But it's like a block long. There's a there's a uh there's a restaurant there called Simons that makes like a standard y kind of like baguette, not a baguette, but like a standard, like kind of soft, long white bread roll thing. They put this giant salt on the outside of it, and somehow they've added some form of crack or some form of drug to this bread because I can't, whenever I buy it, I can't stop eating. I don't know what the hell's wrong with me. Good to know.
+
+[10:26] We'll have to check it out. It's not like it's not like I go and I'm like, oh, I'm bowing down at like you know, it's not like when you go to Dominique Ansel's and you're like, okay, you know, oh, you can you can laminate jello. You know what I mean? Like the guy can laminate anything. I'm like, your lamination skills are like, you know, top rank.
+
+[10:42] You know, but even but it's like, yeah, I don't know what it is. I don't know why I like it. Anyway. Uh Alex, you got anything for this week? Uh I'm the culinary director of a seafood restaurant in a hotel in Soho.
+
+[10:54] And this is something I cooked, but I can't believe I did it. I made Manhattan clam chowder for the first time. Which is like the red one or the the red one. The red one. The red one, which is evil.
+
+[11:03] I'm from yeah, I'm from New England. White land, which by the way, that's the only real clam chowder is. In my opinion. Well, in everyone's opinion. Let me ask you this.
+
+[11:12] Manhattan more real than Rhode Island, which isn't real at all, right? Well, there's some argument. So Rhode Island is for people who don't know, it's New England clam chowder without butter or cream. Right. It's just aka you've messed up.
+
+[11:24] You've made a mistake. Some people would argue that that one is more traditional because dairy back in the oldie timey days was expensive and rare, and maybe they weren't using it that way. Who cares? I mean, I've been alive for 54 years. But um, but I made yeah, I made the devil's chowder.
+
+[11:40] Yeah. Um how was it? It was good. It's it's a different thing. It's like olive oil and panchetta and it's got carrots in it and so now we're shifting into a different realm here.
+
+[11:49] So basically it's like uh it's like a uh a one note, is it for you? Is it like a one note Chopino or like a one note bouillo base or like where where are you but like it not you know, that that's a good way to think about it. Yeah. It's it's a tomato soup fortified with clam. Like it's like yeah, so I'll I'll hate it less if that's the right.
+
+[12:07] What's the what do you use as the uh as the stock base for it? It does it's just it's just tomato puree white wine and the clam liquor. The clam, yeah. I and again, I thicken with Xanthan gum. Of course.
+
+[12:21] And I another dirty trick I do is that like if you want I I put gelatin leaves in all my soups. Yeah, for the Yeah. I want the body. So if I don't feel like making a stock, I throw gelatin in it. Yeah.
+
+[12:32] So uh what is your feeling? So are we this is a fan fancy, so like what kind of clam are you using? They're they're just cherry stones. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[12:40] We freeze them. That's a that's a technique that I've learned recently that I love rather than cooking them to open them, freeze them to open them, and then you get a very consistent amount of broth and clam, and you can add it at the very last second. They don't get chewy. Oh, nice. And but so uh so cherry stones, cherry stones, little necks, so like uh so you're not a fan of like the real tough clam hacked up like a cahog.
+
+[13:03] The cohogs, no. You like there's only one thing to do with it. Stuffies? What about 'em? I love them.
+
+[13:09] Yeah. You don't like stuffies? What's the other thing? Yeah, like cohort. Like boil it for an hour.
+
+[13:12] Right. Hack it up, hack it up and bread. It yeah, it's incidentally mixed into this bread mixture. You don't like that stuff? I love it.
+
+[13:20] Yeah, of course you do. But like I'm the only one in my family that loves those things. Like when those when the giant freaking like clam shells come out of the oven and there's butter and it's blah blah blah blah blah blah. I'm like, yes. Right.
+
+[13:31] You know? No, I do. It it you love those the same way I think it's the equivalent of like French escargot, where like the point of it is the just all the garlic butter. Yeah, which is true. Right.
+
+[13:43] You know, yeah, the texture of escargot is not there's nothing like actually amazing about the escargot. Well, same thing with a stuffy though, or clam cake. It's the texture of the stuffing or the dough. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[13:57] Do you think that like if escargot were just slugs and didn't have the shell and all the stuff, that they would be a thing? It'd be a branding problem. Here's a pile of slugs swimming in butter. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's like squirrels versus rats.
+
+[14:14] It's like there's just a branding problem. I hear muskrats delicious. Probably. I hear it's real good. You know what I mean?
+
+[14:22] I mean, uh all of the rodents that I have eaten are good. You know what I mean? Whereas a lot of the other smaller mammals I've eaten, not as good. I mean, rabbit is a rodent, right? Yeah.
+
+[14:32] It's rodentia. Yeah. Yeah. Rabbits, good. Uh squirrel, good.
+
+[14:36] I thought I thought rabbits were closer to horses or something. I thought rabbits were a separate. I don't know. I don't know. I think they're rodentia.
+
+[14:44] Uh I don't know. Rabbits have uh little little little feedy things, not like hoovy things. You know what I mean? They're not a uh an ungulate. I'm thinking of guinea pigs.
+
+[14:56] Uh guinea pigs are not closer to rodents. That's what I'm thinking of. Also delicious. I think I had guinea pig in is it Peru or Ecuador? Yeah, they I think they both that's a normal, that's a common protein.
+
+[15:08] You know what another good rodent is? Cappy bearer. Not have that. It's good. I've only ever had it viciously overcooked, though.
+
+[15:16] Because it's like uh it's I think it's like a little bit of a tough meat, you know what I mean? Like physically tough meat. And I've only ever had it like uh open air grilled. So I've never I've never had someone I really wanted to work with it one of the times that I went down to um Colombia where they call it Chiguiro. I wanted to work with it, but for whatever reason, the the restaurateur who owned all of the restaurants that the festival was working in did not allow Cappy Bear meat in his restaurant.
+
+[15:43] It was like a some sort of, I don't know whether it was a phobia, I don't know if there's a real a religious thing. Is it stigmatized there or is it I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what it was because they it was like I asked, was rebuffed, asked twice more, was rebuffed twice more. I was like, can you just get some into the restaurant and then I'll cook it and I won't serve it to any guests.
+
+[16:05] I just want to cook with the Cappy Barra, and this is the only kitchen that I will have while I'm down here. You know what I mean? And they were like, no, he won't let it in the restaurant. Could be a classist. Maybe.
+
+[16:16] Maybe. It's like it's like turkey butts in Mexico. You can't get someone, it someone who like is like higher end, right? Or like, you know, like Mexico City. I had someone, I was like, listen, can we do at you know, my last bar, I was like, can we do uh tipavo, right?
+
+[16:32] And they're like, no, that's low-class food. And I'm like, you know what it is? It's delicious. Turkey butt, delicious. You know what I mean?
+
+[16:41] But it has stigma wherever turkey butt is popular, it's stigmatized as as uh you know, low low-class food. But it's just so good. Like a like, I like them just to eat them. I've made them at home. And again, I'm just one of those things, I'm the only one that likes it.
+
+[16:56] Like I'm doing the stuffies and the turkey butts, but like I love them. They're real good. Yeah. Yeah, it may it makes sense. Speaking of uh things that are real good, uh in your book you had correctly, correct me if I'm wrong, in your book that tacos.
+
+[17:10] If you need to look for it, it's called tacos, hard, hard title to find. But uh you have a cheeseburger taco recipe in that, but it's not the same as your current thing, which is more of an actual cheeseburger on a tortilla, correct? Right. So we we do serve the one that's in the book at Mpeo and Al Pastor in the East Village. Um, and that is a version that we discovered in Mexico.
+
+[17:32] Uh, which is amazing because it why we were blown away by it is that we're so used to Americans Americanizing Mexican cooking and other cuisines to their liking. And this was a rare example of seeing that inverted, seeing something American Mexicanized. Because when it was done, it didn't taste like an American cheeseburger. No, it doesn't look like it. It looks more akin to like what is now known as a chopped cheese.
+
+[17:57] Right. Yeah. Right. But we do so we decided to add a different one to a different restaurant, which is why we call it Cheeseburger Taco V2. Oh, V2, yeah.
+
+[18:06] Yeah. And that's a like flour tortilla folded over with an actual half a patty, lettuce, American cheese, special sauce. So that would trigger an American to say like that's a cheeseburger, just because it that combination of things. Yeah. So uh and so yeah, you do the big patty on a tortilla press.
+
+[18:25] Uh no, on a uh witch press cheese. Playuta pressure. Yeah, yeah. And then and then you you you you put it on the griddle, flat it out, cut it in half so that it's taco shaped. Right.
+
+[18:34] Stuff it into two flour tortillas. Yeah. Am cheese. Yes. Whose ham cheese do you use?
+
+[18:39] I think we use craft. Yeah? Yeah. I forget Wiley's uh, you know, our mutual connection, Wiley Dufrain, uh very particular about his American cheese. He is obsessed with American cheese.
+
+[18:49] Like it's super particular. I watched that man eat a lot of American cheese when I worked for him. He will pound, yeah, he will pound American cheese. And when he goes into your kitchen, if you have a less favored the messed up thing is I can never remember what his favorite brands are. Yes.
+
+[19:07] The white one. Anyways, so like you know, I don't know why he lets I don't know why he hasn't partnered with the other chefs who are like like uh making their their bespoke American cheeses, because like the man is legitimately loves American cheese. You know what I mean? He does. He calls it God's cheese.
+
+[19:25] Yeah. Yeah. In fact, I believe he I think he likes Velveeta, loves American cheese. What is your feeling on Velveeta Vert like do you like Velveeta? Yeah, I like it.
+
+[19:29] It it's almost like a functional ingredient. Like any queso just to smooth it out instead of if you don't have access to all the salts. Yeah, it's got all the gums in it. It's got you know hydrocolloids and it's got sodium citrate, and it is weirdly neutral enough that if you're uh I don't know, giving something a real cheese identity, you can work that in there and it's not gonna dominate. It'll just play nice with it.
+
+[19:56] Yeah, I'm a fan. So back to your uh V2 uh cheeseburger taco, flour tortilla. So you now you have half of a griddled, like you a taco-shaped wedge of cheeseburger. A semicircle of beef patty. There you go.
+
+[20:11] There you go. And like, you know, one slice of am cheese broken in half. Is that what it was? Yeah, one slice cut into two rectangles to span across it. Right.
+
+[20:19] Melts out when you flip flip it over, right? And then secret sauce, and by the way, you're like, I'm not gonna tell you what the secret sauce is, but is it is it is it McDon McDonald's adjacent? Is it like American cheeseburger special sauce adjacent? It is like we what we again like what we like to do to the point of that inspiration we had in Mexico is like we tell like to take the American recipe and then look at it as if it's wrong, and we're going to make it better with Mexican ingredients. So in that way you can start saying, like, well, I'm gonna take the pickles out and I'm gonna put these pickled jalapenos in, and I'm gonna stain it red with this chili powder and not smoke paprika.
+
+[20:53] Because it becomes a very easy thing exercise to start switching out and giving it a different flavor. And is it selling like uh like cheese like cheeseburgers? Yeah, they sell a ridiculous amount. I cannot convince. So Jeremiah's so I'm I am a I do the bar stuff at Bar Contra, which is downtown what formerly, you know, formerly restaurant contra.
+
+[21:16] And Jeremiah Stone, Chef, can't convince him to like I have to convince him somehow that he's invented the cheeseburger, and then we could have a cheeseburger. But people want a cheeseburger when they're drinking, don't they? They do. And I have a I have a couple like theories on how we're it seems like as a society we're getting more and more into basicness and this stuff. I think it's two I think it's twofold.
+
+[21:39] I think our generation is kind of just scathed. So we want a cheeseburger. I actually think when the younger generation, you look at these influencers and all them. I actually think they're just discovering cheeseburgers. Really?
+
+[21:53] Yeah, like like yeah, like there's different kinds and there's restaurant burgers and fast food burgers, Smash Burger. They're just learning about Negronies. Like they're just learning about these things. So I like how you're like cheeseburger, Negroni. No, like just things that like we take for granted.
+
+[22:07] So it's either you need comfort and you can no longer or it's like you're not ready for like to have that twice removed creatively, because we're still you know what I mean? It's all new people. Are you cheeseburger? Are you cheeseburger beer, cheeseburger, wine, cheeseburger, cocktail? Cheeseburger, cocktail.
+
+[22:23] Yeah. And what's what's your cheeseburger cocktail of note? Um I I'm a dumb drink. I like very simple cocktails because I like when I'm drinking, I'm drinking. I don't like to think.
+
+[22:34] I just mean I'm well, I like to work very hard to make simple tasting cocktails. It so it's either it's either gin and tonic or mezcal and grapefruit juice. Those are my two defaults. I'm eating anything. Anything.
+
+[22:48] Yeah. All right. Yeah. I'm still mostly a wine with dinner dude. Unless it really wants to have a beer.
+
+[22:55] But I usually have my cocktails before and after. I I realize that I am old and flusty in this in this, but whatever. Hey, Quinn, I realize I skipped you. Wait, what do you got for the week? Week in review.
+
+[23:09] Yeah, uh, not too much. I did uh uh make a little experimental recipe. So in my book, I've got a graham cracker, and I modified that further because the original recipe uses just regular whole wheat flour that hasn't been sifted, but I tried a version to actually use up a bunch of uh bran, as you know. I mean, you and I both uh mil flour and sift flour, so I'm sure you get a lot of bran sometimes uh built up. Yeah, I mix it, I mix it into granola because you can hide it really well in granola with all the oil and stuff.
+
+[23:56] Yeah, so this is a sort of modified crispy cookie graham cracker thing where the dry mix is 50% of the brand sort of byproduct. You know, you can't make it. Are they good? Compare it to a compare to a honey made. Would you prefer to eat it to a honey made?
+
+[24:17] That's what I'm asking. Would you prefer a honeymade? What's the brand of note? What do the kids ha eat these days for? It's honeymade, right?
+
+[24:23] Honeymade. Graham cracker, good device. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I I would I would probably prefer my other homemade graham cracker recipe to to this in theory, but yeah, it's good.
+
+[24:37] Would you prefer either of them to honeymade, or is this just your doing it to do it thing? I mean, I'm not crazy about honey made. That's why I made my own. Wow. What about do you do cinnamon sugar on top?
+
+[24:54] No. I like cinnamon sugar on that. I mean, I'll say one more thing before we before we go. Bran is Bran. It's a it's a product that you have to use, otherwise you're throwing it away, right?
+
+[25:04] Generally. And it'll, you know, light your colon on fire, which is why people want to eat a lot of it. You can't get it from milling your own, but wheat germ is so delicious. Like wheat germ in baked goods, like like wheat germ in pancakes. You buy the Kretschmer's brand, wheat germ, the red can.
+
+[25:22] I don't know what the blue can is for. I don't know what the blue can is. I buy the red can, uh red jar of Kretschmer's. That stuff's good. Wheat germ tastes good.
+
+[25:30] You like wheat germ? I do. Yeah. Goes off fast. Does.
+
+[25:34] That's why you gotta buy the unless you use it a lot, you gotta keep that sucker sealed by the small cans. Yeah. You know what I mean? Have you made s'mores with your graham crackers yet? Quim.
+
+[25:47] Me uh not not these new ones. No, we just baked those off uh yesterday. But yeah, my uh original recipe, yes, I made uh s'mores or s'more s'more-like object. S'more could be better. Oh, I have I have opinions about s'more.
+
+[26:06] All right, give me some s'more opinions. Give me some more pinions. I dislike, I mean it it goes into sandwiches. I hate it any time texturally the construct is something crunchy on the outside, leaving something soft to squeeze out the side. Into your into your palm of your hand.
+
+[26:22] We make um when it's like my backyard, it's fire pit season. You know, kids, we invented this. It's where we'll use a Kit Kat and we'll melt that with a marshmallow, wrap it in white bread. Huh. How is that?
+
+[26:35] It's amazing because it's soft on the outside, crunchy on the inside with the same melty gooey marshmallow and chocolate. It's like peeking duck. Think about it that way. Yeah. Text textural adaptation.
+
+[26:47] Do you think you could if you didn't want to have the other starch, do you think you could, without having too much of a moisture migration problem, sheet out marshmallow and then somehow seal the s'more inside of the marshmallow? But or would the marshmallow melt before you could get the chocolate gooey enough? Wait, and have that all encapsulated in graham cracker? Well, no, the graham cracker and the chocolate all the way on the inside. And then you're holding, but you know, you need a skin on the marshmallow, right?
+
+[27:17] You just need a skin. You need to use a there are pipeable marshmallow recipes that are designed to fill bonbons. And you need to use one of those. They don't set as quick, and they they're decide they're designed to self-level. What do you think?
+
+[27:32] Wafer paper? Wafer paper marshmallows so that you have something you can pick up even after you've gooed it? Yeah. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, that would work.
+
+[27:42] Yeah. Have you ever used, you know how you can buy, you know, uh, what are they, what are they called? What are those things called? The uh the the styrofoam crackers, the styrofoam sugar cookies. That they they come in bricks and they they look like styrofoam packing, but they're delicious.
+
+[27:57] And they come in like strawberry chocolate, vanilla, lower, low. I know which ones you're talking about. I don't know that. Like the wafer? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[28:04] What are those things called? Anyway, do you know? I forget what culture it is, but I I found them at uh Ridgewood Pork Store. They sell, they sell the sheets of that stuff like this big. You could theoretically make you, you know, it's whip some fat and and sugar and flavor together.
+
+[28:20] You can make a giant wafer cookie. Those things, you like those things? I do. They're good. Yeah.
+
+[28:26] By the way, the icing's never good. So that to your point. Right. That might be worth it to do it. To do it just at least once.
+
+[28:32] Right. Like a large format wafer cookie. Sure. Yeah. And then like uh, I don't know that there's a lot.
+
+[28:39] I think they've figured out the texture of the cookie. You know what I mean? And I don't think you need to be like plywood where you're like moving the laminations back and forth. I think you can just stack it and crunch it. Just need a better icing.
+
+[28:49] Yeah. What's your feeling on high acid icings? I don't know that I've thought about high acid icings a lot. Wiley likes a high acid ice. Wiley likes a high acid anything for its sweets.
+
+[29:01] Like for like donuts, he does like a high acid donut glazes. He does like. Yeah, why not? Why not? No.
+
+[29:09] If it if it makes sense in the flavor profile. Yeah. Yeah. How do we get on this? I have no idea how we get on this.
+
+[29:14] Oh, s'mores and graham cracks. Right. Yeah. When you just are roasting marshmallows, are you a burn the hell out of it, light it on fire, or like let toast real check? No, total immolation.
+
+[29:26] Really? Total immolation. I love that. It's the metal in you. Yeah.
+
+[29:29] I want it black. Well, because the funny thing is that's like so opposite. I'll okay. I'll I'll go ahead and and uh I'll say this now. Do you still do any live cooking demos for people?
+
+[29:39] Like you used to at the FCI and back when uh, or maybe still do it at ice? I don't know. I don't yeah, I haven't gotten asked. Dummies, listen, anyone that can hear the sound of my voice, first of all, I think it's a thing of the past because of the way YouTube and and and TikTok and all these things have taken off. Um, but seeing a live chef demo, especially if you're learning or you're young, is fantastic.
+
+[30:03] And you can go up, and most of the chefs that we had come in and do demos at the French Culinary Institute were also very generous. They would talk to students, they would talk to people. People who taking the time to go to the demo, the chef would usually take the time to talk to them afterwards if they wanted to. Because they've already wasted their time coming and doing a demo for you. So they might as well talk to you as well.
+
+[30:22] And uh, you know, and also like people who work the demos, you can learn a lot from the chefs. I know I learned a lot from the chefs that did demos that I was assist uh excuse me, assisting them. Alex Stupak gives some good demo, a ridiculously good demo. I have seen hundreds of chefs give demos, and like we couldn't have more opposite style of demo in the sense that I never know what's gonna happen and like everything comes unglued and everything is messy. Stuck, so like I also I go like a mile a minute.
+
+[30:57] Stubak will come in and he can do like he's like, but all of that stuff is completely planned and to purpose and like perfect and like not messy. I haven't done one of those in a long time. Do they do people still are they still done? That's what I'm saying. It's like if they're not done, they should be because um I I yeah I I see like seminars from different culinary institutes uploaded occasionally on YouTube.
+
+[31:26] But seeing a demo live is different from having somebody point a camera and figure out what they want you to see. Yeah, you know what I mean? And like, and I've said this a million times. Um I I like listening to I like listening to chefs, but the the visual input I get is more important to me, to me. That's how I like I learned like watching the hands and like what they're doing, how they're manipulating things some for me is more important learning experience than what they're saying.
+
+[32:01] Half the time I think what chefs are saying is not even correct. But it's like doesn't matter because I can see them make it and you can taste it. When you're at a demo like a lot of chefs will taste out the stuff. So like you know that's what I always like. It's not just like some image on a screen you get to actually see and taste the food that they're making.
+
+[32:20] I think it's a real lost um thing. I just don't think people It's an interesting point because too it's like band some are good live and some aren't and that would be a great exposure of that. Yeah. I think even like the really big I remember you know going to like Identita and Madrid Fusion and all these back in the day and those were demos and I've been out of that circuit for so long but the way I understand it like mad symposium and these things it's everyone's kind of sitting around talking. Yeah that that's what it's become like it they've moved away from what you're what you're speaking about.
+
+[32:53] Which I don't even understand. I don't even understand. Now there look it it did get crazy so like and you know we're all guilty of this you do stuff crazy stuff for demo right and so like especially like the Madrid fusion model I think they started that where you know some people would come in and just do stuff that they did at the restaurant right but then some people would come in and just do like just crazy loony stuff. You know what I mean? Yeah, and El Boole would always steal the show.
+
+[33:17] So that was a a rare moment in time where there became all this pressure. So it became a different mode. You weren't even showing what you're doing right it was about how good is your demo. Like how do you win the demo game? Right.
+
+[33:29] But you were always like you always won demo in the sense that I was always impressed by like the live demo skills. Thanks. Yeah. So like you should do that again. People should.
+
+[33:39] The thing is, I think there's not necessarily an economic it doesn't make probably time or economic sense to do it anymore. It's not the same world as it once was. I I've been dumping information out on Instagram as of recently. If you care about like gaining followers, it happened by accident for me, but I was like, I tried to do a at least a video a week at Mpeon, and one morning I'm like hung over and I don't know what to do. So I just said like I'm just gonna show them a tweel recipe, like an actual useful ratio.
+
+[34:10] And I never got a response like that ever. So I don't know if it's because it was pastry focused or because I was actually giving you the data, but I've been kind of continuing on that thread because I was just like, well, I'll just write every technique that I feel is proprietary to me. And I'm just gonna because I'm not I'm not gonna write a book about it at this point. So I'm just gonna put it out there. So you say you just get it for you.
+
+[34:33] Just get get Chat GPT to write it for you, and then it's done. Done it. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Yeah, you know, it's just things have changed. So about that tweel recipe, I I watched that that video.
+
+[34:43] Yeah, very informative. So here's a here's some inside baseball. So uh I've I I ate I ate at Alinea when you were pastry there, but I didn't really know you until you came to WD50. And at that time at WD50, like uh, so we're talking about fluid gels. For any for anyone who's keeping notes here, we're talking about fluid gel.
+
+[35:08] So a fluid gel is fluid gel for those who you know don't know, don't care. You take something that would otherwise be a gel, right? And then you blend it, and then the little particles of the gel stay suspended and kind of touch like grab onto each other a little bit so you can get any any puree texture you want between liquid, totally liquid that suspends stuff a little bit, to hair gel, you know, and beyond. You know what I mean? So this is a fluid gel.
+
+[35:36] And the two main gelling agents, hydrocolloids that I, you know, know of for fluid gel uh are gel an, uh low acyl gel an, uh, which by the way, I get so pissed off. You know, like someone called me from the bar this morning, and they were like, this is sorry, it's methyl, more hydrocolic. They're like, is this the right methylcel? I'm like, no. Don't ever say, don't ever sell methyl cell without writing exactly which methyl cell it is, and don't ever spec a methyl cell without saying, or or gel an without saying exactly which one you mean, and always be clear.
+
+[36:12] Please. Yes. A container that says methyl cell on it would be like a container that says medicine on it. It's not enough information. Yes, yeah, I'm gonna steal that, but I'll credit you.
+
+[36:25] That's fine. Uh yeah. So, anyways, so uh the two main uh gelling agents of note for fluid gels are are are uh gel-in and and agar agar. Did I say that before? Anyway, uh and I always shaded to Agar because it was easier for everyone to get.
+
+[36:44] Now everyone can get everything. But back when I was doing a lot of demos for chefs and and and normal folk, I I would shade towards Agar because of that. But you guys were always a gel-an house. Were we? Yeah.
+
+[36:57] I don't know. I you guys lived gel. Because it's a better, it's technically better. You can use it in lower amounts than you use agar. I'm agar.
+
+[37:05] Sorry, uh, gel and you can use gel-an in lower amounts than agar. But your twil recipe is gel-in. It's WD50 days. Okay, but there's a reason for that. So agar is not a film former.
+
+[37:15] So you so you do so it won't drill out as much as a. No, if you if you were to make a thicken your your whatever, your your muse with agar and spread it and dry it, the next day there'll be all these little fissure cracks that look like the the floor of a desert. Huh. It doesn't form a film. You would the only way you could use in that application, you'd have to add pectin or some other film-forming agent.
+
+[37:40] Gel-in gum, you will make a fluid gel, but film forms of film. And if I can always do it with one gum, not two, I will. I never thought about it. I've never because I've never made that recipe, so I never I've never used gel-an for its its filminess. Yeah, you're forming a film.
+
+[37:57] So that that's why I'll exclusively use gel-in for twels. Huh. And so and so because of the film forming stuff, it also doesn't need to be bulked up a lot. Well, you don't need a lot of other bulking agents in it to like add as like fiber connections, like like a pure, you don't need to use a puree. You see, you could twelve anything.
+
+[38:13] You correct. You can do it with water. And you need sugar, and you need I like to add an invert sugar or glucose because I tend to manipulate it afterwards, and when it's warmed up, it it makes that easier to do. That's all. Yeah.
+
+[38:29] But that's why gelin. That's why gel is nice enough. And another thing, I was uh looking at your, I forget which one of the recipes it is. I never really thought of Xanthan as needing acid, but you were like, Xanthan prefers to have acid. I've always thought of Xanthan as being acid tolerant, but not necessarily that it needs it.
+
+[38:44] Well, it's like in in the um in the industrial food world where all this stuff comes from, Xanthan gum is more expensive. Xanthan and gel and microbiologically produced um hydrocolloids like through fermentation, are more expensive than seed gums. So the only time you would ever use them, a more expensive gum is because a cheaper gum wouldn't do it, which is why you always see xanthan gum in vinaigretes. It's the defloculant in vinaigrette. Because you can handle acid.
+
+[39:13] And sriracha hot sauce. Because it's the the because carrageenin or guargum can't handle the acid. That's why. Yeah, but you but you but you you well, you at least at least that's what I was getting off of. I forget which video it was.
+
+[39:24] But you're saying it actually like improves the it does, it likes it. And I learned that from Wiley. You know, he used to do this, you know, uh soy protein foam with and he would use xanthan gum to stabilize it. Uh, but it it needed it actually needed the acid. Yeah, what's interesting about that protein foam is that the only solids you really require, other than the stabilizer stuff is the proteins.
+
+[39:47] Enough, right? You use like use of what it was water, protein. Yeah, you whip water. Yeah. It's I I always add things that I would add like bulking agents to it, like like uh maltodextrins or things that things that have bulk, but you don't need it if you the verse whip on it.
+
+[40:02] In other words, I would do like F50, but if if you're F50, if you're foaming with F50 and your puree is too thin, it doesn't whip as well, right? You're talking about methyl cellulose. Yeah, that's what because that's normally what I use. I've never became a verse whip guy. But you're saying VersaWhip's the answer.
+
+[40:16] It again, it all depends. And this stuff, it's like our work at WD50, we did back into things. Like we would get the substance and then figure out how to do it. So like it's like we knew a lot of different ways to skin a cat. Yeah.
+
+[40:32] You know what I mean? Like in I've told you that horrible story, haven't I? No. Which one? It's not about actually skinning it.
+
+[40:41] Yes. No, it's no, it's like uh I I worked at a hospital and uh and uh we they did animal research and yeah, it was horrible because they're the you know, they there's a room where all the animals go after they're done, and there was a the a barrel of skinned cats. It was the whole most horrible thing I've ever seen. I'm sorry. That's bothered.
+
+[41:01] So like that phrase, whenever anyone says that phrase too. So yeah, whenever anyone says that phrase, I like I can see it. Right. You know what I mean? Sorry.
+
+[41:09] You know what I mean? Like it's yeah. There's a lot of different ways to whip water. Uh yeah. There you go.
+
+[41:18] Um I don't know why I never got into VersaWhip. I guess because you know you put one thing on your tool belt and then you walk away. Sure. Yeah. Um Although interesting thing you just said, people probably missed it, but it's super important to how you guys were working back then.
+
+[41:35] Backed out of mixes and made your own recipes based on the original substances. And one of your TikTok videos is actually about that in an interesting way. So CP Kelko, who it was the manufacturer of gel-in. Gel and cheaper now because they look they're out of patent. So you can get gel and now other people can make it.
+
+[41:51] Yeah, now other people can make it. But they used to make a a mix, I forget the name of it. Uh it was called Kelko gel, blah blah blah. But it was a mixture of kappa caragine, and you'll know where I'm going as soon as I say this. Locust bean gum and uh guar.
+
+[42:06] The the the one that Or Xanthan. Yeah, well, it was like it was it was the mix that that Wiley based his egg yolk one on. Oh yeah. But he backed out and did his own. So if you look up uh Alex's video on how to dip cake pieces in a in a glaze and have it set, like that is similar.
+
+[42:27] That's a modification of Wiley's recipe. Yeah, modification of this recipe that Wiley came up with to coat. So he would take frozen carrot and was it carrot and he took um carrot juice that was barely thickened with Xanthan gum, and he would freeze it in a demisphere mold, and then he would just pierce that with a needle to pick it up, and then he would dip it in this uh film of kappa carrageenin, had locust bean gum and a little bit of potassium citrate, which helps the the kappa gel. And that and well, that recipe, the CP Kelco original, they were selling it as a gelatin substitute, right? Because the locust bean gum softens the because kappa's brittle and weeps a lot, right?
+
+[43:10] So you do kappa plus LBG, locust bean gum, and it has more of a gelatin consistency, but it snapsets, unlike uh gelatin. Right. So you can do those tricks. Although I was never very good at it. The thing I would always pop them.
+
+[43:24] He used to make fun of me. He would make me come in and make a couple, and then I would pop up. No, there's a dexterity element. There's a again, there's a sushi chef master skill to that as well. It's not just the mixture.
+
+[43:36] Or I would get little blebs. Yeah. Suck. Yeah. He was the only one I think that I only remember him doing it.
+
+[43:43] I remember him trying to show people and getting frustrated. Anyway, fast forward to today, you have given out the actual recipe for how to make it, right? The original CP Kelko product isn't really available anymore. So I was trying to tell uh my friend Jack who makes jello shots for a living. I was like, oh, there's a decent jello replacement that you could use as vegan.
+
+[44:08] Uh try, you know, to go find a good kappa LBG mix. But apparently no one makes a good kappa LBG mix anymore. You have to just follow that recipe. Yeah. There you go.
+
+[44:15] Thank you. Thank you. Trying to be useful. Yeah. Um.
+
+[44:21] So uh what are we what are we missing? I have a question. Let's do questions. Yeah? Questions?
+
+[44:27] All right. Oh, yeah. We're only 15 minutes left. Jesus. Uh this is dovetailing into what we're saying before.
+
+[44:34] Kevin says, Kavan says, uh, hey, looking back now, uh, how do you see the and this by the way dovetails into a piece you wrote for your uh the sweet release. So, you know, go to town. Uh, how do you see the modernist slash molecular cooking wave? I know we hate, yeah. Uh cooking wave that exploded in the 2000s.
+
+[44:52] What excited you about it at the time, what bothers you about it in hindsight, and uh where have your feelings shifted most over the years. But I'll kick it to you. Yeah, that's a lot. Um what I loved about it in the moment was how um rebellious it was. That it it it felt so new and fresh to me.
+
+[45:09] And at the same time, what weirdly made me love it more is there was a larger audience that's saying this is bullshit, this is pretentious, this is not food, etc. And I just found it incredibly exciting. Um, you know, to eat a dish, but then not know how it was put together and have that extra joy of figuring that out. How do you get a liquid center in that and how do you make that hot? Like I that's what was thrilling about it for me.
+
+[45:37] Um all these years later, I don't think we have the attention span to care about that which makes me a little bit sad um but so doing it now would feel a lot more I don't know it's like a dated magic trick things have become so spectacular and we're we become so visual because of social media I don't know that we can pay attention to to such nuances um what about some of the bigger moves though like what about the vacuum dice cream I don't even know that one didn't you didn't you used to do that at that point oh that like the the inflated yeah it ends up having the texture of ancient food cake I don't even know how that works why doesn't it melt? What the hell's going on? I don't even know how the hell that works. Yeah I I don't know and the other interesting thing too is like to your point about Wiley hand making those eggs with kapa carrageenan I made everything by hand so I do miss a simpler time in my life where that's what that's all I was worried about. I like how that's the simpler time.
+
+[46:39] It was it was so much fun I I got to my job was to make awesome desserts and humble other pastry chefs. Like that was the that was the gig and that's really magical now I have like rent and bills and we've been through COVID and I have two kids and like it's like I I don't I have a lot of real problems. At least not so far. No so um and I still all those techniques are important for me but now it's it's less about the act of doing it and it's more about I'm trying to get something done and oh I know how to. Do you get the same joy out of someone else being able to execute an idea in your world that you would executing it yourself?
+
+[47:25] Is it different? Do you get the same kind of jazz when like the team can do something awesome? Well, that's that's it now, right? It's not about what you can do because you can't do it anymore. It's about how well can you give instruction, how well can you build the machine?
+
+[47:40] So like at you know at M Payon, we we really try to smash out ambiguity and mysticism. So we we make our guacamole, for example, we don't mash it, we push it through a quarter inch grid. And when we say overmashed or undermashed, what does that mean? What we mean is that if I can't see both colors of the avocado, if I can't see the vivid green exterior and the olive interior, that's what that means. So now we're all on the same page.
+
+[48:09] You know, we so we just really try to avoid well, that's good, that's not good, that's too much, that's not enough. It just comes down to like measuring everything. Right. So I I find passion in that. Yeah, for sure.
+
+[48:19] But it is nice to be able, I mean, like I wish I was better at I I try to bulletproof stuff as much as I can, but it's such a pain in the ass. So it's worth your time. It it's worth it being a pain in the butt because if the idea is no one can do it but you and you're going it will you will burn yourself out. You just will. Yeah.
+
+[48:39] And then also when you're not there, which is gonna happen, you don't trust what's coming out. No, which sucks. No, 100%. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[48:46] So that that's not and your team will know that. They'll feel that. And that's not a good feeling either. Yeah. You need to empower them.
+
+[48:53] So something else you touched on in your sub stack uh that I would like to get to, because you're one of the maybe 10 people who has a really good perspective on this. In the 2000s was kind of a magic time to be a pastry chef. Right? Like pastry chef was getting, they were getting a lot of buzz. The high end, like the the whatever you want to what do you what do you call these things here?
+
+[49:17] Three stars, four stars. What do you call what do you call a high end restaurant here? Four? Because New York Times using New York. New York Times is four.
+
+[49:22] Yeah, you but you use New York for well whatever, whatever however rating system you want to be like the the high end fine dining stuff, they were not only spending money on pastry chefs that were personalities, but pushing them to media. And as you said in your in your piece it they're still niche but pastry chefs have net pastry chefs in restaurants. Right now to be a famous pastry chef you are an influencer, you have a bakery, right? You know, uh you're on a TV show, you know, you have a you have a book. But back then you could just be kicking butt at a great restaurant and people knew who you were like an educated diner in New York City in the in like 20 2009 could name probably eight pastry chefs.
+
+[50:09] You know 100%. You know what I mean? Well so what's changed? And again to to your point so when I came to New York that you know the three hot shots were you know Johnny Uzzini from Jean George. Sam Mason at well left WD to do Taylor.
+
+[50:25] Will Goldfarb now what's interesting about all three of them they didn't leave to open they didn't all go to open bakeries. You know what I mean? Pichayong like they they opened restaurants. They were pastry chefs opening restaurants. So that was a really cool time for me to come to New York say we were excited about that and Wiley kind of cultivated the best environment for it in my opinion.
+
+[50:45] He really did um invest in it. Yeah so it's different now I think what we want from restaurants is different now. I think the things that we're like like I told you earlier like the cheeseburger thing I think we want it just seems like it like every the hot new restaurant right now they're all sort of vaguely dark warm and handsome and they all have very like blunt brute force you know and I'm not no effect but like corner store corner bar it's almost like call it restaurant bar or bar restaurant like it like call it it it's like these like and that's where we're flocking to and that's where and if you look at the menu it's you know it's chicken nuggets it just is that that and I'm not saying it as an insult I'm just as a commentary that's where we're at and that's what we want. So I think we're really in this this safety mode right now which is interesting. Have you had an actual chicken nugget in the last 10 years?
+
+[51:38] I have not I have I make the best chicken nuggets because of this thing. It's like said I'm a culinary director of a hotel and I was like I'm gonna make six piece chicken nuggets really hard to make actually because you have to get the force meat right you have to make tempora wrong that was what I figured out the McDonald's chicken nugget they're making a a tempora wrong and it has turmeric in it for the color it's it's like a whole wild thing. But they're battered not breaded they're not like they're not I mean they're battered. Uh-huh yeah they're battered so because in my mind I always think of it as being like a panko like thing but I because I haven't had one in so long. I work so hard on them but like the the place where I'm you know the manor hotel in Soho I'm in charge of you know every F and B outlet of it like culinarily speaking and it's like the whole house chicken nuggets are the number one seller by far.
+
+[52:27] Like by by a lot. So this is a bad idea what I'm about to say but do you like an old school like fish sausage like with the with the cream with the mousse and making it like keeping it like all emulsified like a f like an old school like fish sausage? Would that make a good nugget? It would. Right.
+
+[52:51] But no one wants a fish nugget, I'm saying, but like I don't want a fish ball nugget. By the way, there is a company now that makes fish corn dogs. Have you bought these? I have not. They're not quite right.
+
+[53:02] They're almost there. It's like mozzarella, like but it's the hard fish. It's the it's like the super saree like fish dicks fish. Right. As the as the dog.
+
+[53:12] We're a meat paste society. You gotta go to Asia where they're they're fish face. What about when you can have both? What about the Fukinese fish ball that's got the got the meat in the middle? I don't even know what that is.
+
+[53:23] Dude, it's it's a fish ball with meat in the middle, like winning. Yeah, it used to be. I I think a lot of them have closed down, but it used to be that the same block that the Elder Tree Synagogue was on was the Fukinese fish ball capital of the United States. Got it. I don't know how hard it is to be the Fukinese fish ball capital of the United States.
+
+[53:42] Sounds pretty niche. Yeah. That's my whole life is nicheness. You know what I mean? Like I'm all about that niche.
+
+[53:48] So you don't think uh well, you wrote in the thing also, people like you don't make money in dessert at a restaurant. You don't. You do not. Um why did they spend money on it back then? Just because they need it to be all things to all people.
+
+[54:01] I I I I uh I honestly think you had really passionate chefs that cared about that over maximizing the business model. That's what I think it was. Huh. Yeah. All right.
+
+[54:14] Uh all right, let me see if we've got any more questions here. Oh, sorry, that we'll have to get uh some of these. Oh yeah, do it. Do it. Uh that what uh again, uh from thank you very much.
+
+[54:32] Uh I love your videos. What in your opinion is the most sandbaggable free form dessert sure to wild guests? Uh i.e. gluten free, nut free, plant based. Uh multiple inspiration.
+
+[54:48] Welcome. That's a that's a very broad question. He said sandbaggable. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I was talking with Dave Chang about sandbagging.
+
+[54:56] So what he means is being able to make it well in advance and have it be stable. Yeah. Um, you know, gluten free is super easy, nut free super easy. Um vegan tends to throw me off a little bit. Uh just because dairy products are super important to me in my work.
+
+[55:14] Um yeah, I don't know. It I mean, that if you you could probably well, I guess that's orbe, right? Sorbet, but that's not sandbaggable. You're scooping at the last moment. Uh sorbet's always a great vegan option.
+
+[55:29] Um, I mean, hell, even that cake that I dipped, I suppose you could make a sponge cake without any. How long will that last? The gel? On the cake. It'll last a couple days.
+
+[55:42] Yeah, I apologize. I just um I dislike thinking in vegan limitations. Not that I have a problem with veganism, but just eggs are a highly technical, uh function functionally technical ingredient, and so are dairy products. So it's just not how I love to think about food. You know.
+
+[56:04] Yeah, I it I I I haven't gotten into those disciplines really, because I've never really had to or uh honestly wanted to. Yeah. Well, like I say, I think it's, you know, we uh we're all we all need to work in a zone that makes us want to continue to work. Yeah. Again, it's like fruit is the best dessert, you know what I mean?
+
+[56:26] Because it's already great. You know, and a lot of um, I guess where I take, and I'm not trying to upset anyone, but uh where I take issue with a lot of the vegan products out there, um, is they're they're highly processed. You know what I mean? They're that they have more bad stuff in them for the sake of making them not animal based. You know what I mean?
+
+[56:46] And that's all. Yeah. So it's it's tricky. I bet I could make a custard with soy milk and set it with carrageenin. I think that would be vegan.
+
+[56:55] I think that would be sandbaggable. Yeah, does carrageenin have the same interactions? I think it has similar interactions. I think you can add a little bit of like it, like here. I'm trying to answer and be like make a malted, make a malted soy milk custard with care with iota carrageen.
+
+[57:10] And you can add a little bit of calcium to it to help the iota set. Soy milk tastes malty already, so adding like malted powder to it might be interesting. Maybe that. Yeah. There you go.
+
+[57:22] Uh Nibble wrote in and wants to know about my hood, but I'll tell you about my hood after I've installed it. It's been such a pain getting my old hood out. By the way, if you've had uh a squirrel cage blower mounted in your ceiling for 12 years, wear gloves when you take it out of there. Wear gloves. Wear gloves.
+
+[57:40] Otherwise, you need a second pair of hands to throw away. Uh Nick W, I'll get more on the uh coffee cocktails later. Do you do any uh do you do any infusion work, Alex? Uh you mean in the cocktail world? Yeah.
+
+[57:52] Sure. All right, so we can both rein in here. Uh Desert Platypus has been doing nitrous infusions with uh 200 proof ethanol. Uh and I've been curious about the best practice for optimizing top note flavors of various classes of ingredients. Umlypus.
+
+[58:06] First of all, platypus is they don't live in the desert, right? Don't they live underwater? I don't know. I thought they were aquatic. Yeah, they're aquatic.
+
+[58:12] Uh, but the issue with uh 200 proof is is that like it gets a totally different extraction pattern because you're getting things that are extractable into pure ethanol. Some things need some water to extract. So this is gonna take too long. Do you have anything to say about this? I can't.
+
+[58:29] But what you're saying makes sense. There's there's fat soluble, water soluble, and alcohol soluble. So when it's only alcohol, you're actually probably missing some of the volatiles. Right. Well, and also some of the bitterants aren't soluble.
+
+[58:41] Some are, some aren't, right? So, like certain things like had get totally different infusions in pure ethanol versus like like 40 or even like 151 or one of these things, you know what I mean? So you just need to worry about it. Uh do you have any uh herbamante feelings? I have a uh uh Yerba Mate question.
+
+[59:00] I don't. Me either, but I will say this. I love that I love that soda. That's it. So L.
+
+[59:05] Butts writes in Has anyone done any experimenting with your mamma mate? There's a company in Australia that sells a yerba mate soda, but it's really expensive here. But the one we get is cheap, Materva. It's the most delicious stream soda you've ever had. And I hate Yerba Mate as an actual drink, like with the gourd.
+
+[59:21] I went, I bought the gourd, I bought the mate, I bought the straw, I sat there trying to pretend like I could make myself like it. And then I was in uh I was in uh uh what's it called? Um uh Elmago, El Mago def uh de fritas, you know, the the uh Cuban place in Miami, and I was like, all right, I'm gonna try all the sodas. I don't care whether I hate them or not. And I got them a terravin, I was like, oh, good soda.
+
+[59:42] Yeah, I don't know what's in that stuff, but it is amazing. Yeah, it's real good, but that's not expensive. So anyway, uh Sherry, I only have 12 seconds left, so I'll get to your live fire cooking uh later. And uh Quinn, let's just put the damn darn uh Shazandra spec on the Patreon because no one wants to see me hear me just list a giant list of freaking infusions to put into a non-alcoholic drink. Am I missing anything, Alex?
+
+[1:00:09] There's uh I appreciate you coming on. No, come back, too. Come back anytime. Did I did I adequately mention all the things that you're working on? I never know what I can never remember what I've said.
+
+[1:00:19] I think we covered a lot. All right, cool. Thanks, Alex. Thanks for coming on. Come back anytime.
+
+[1:00:22] Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking News. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you. From the Heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, New Stand Studios. Joined with John. How are you doing?
+
+[0:20] Doing great, thanks. Yeah? Yeah? Good, good. Yeah, good, good, dear.
+
+[0:23] Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels. What's up? Oops, there we go. Hey, hey, hey. What is up?
+
+[0:28] And uh over there in California, Los Angeles, we got uh Jackie Molecules, only gonna be here for the beginning of the show. How are you doing? Yep, good, good. Yeah, yeah. We got uh Nastasia the Hammer Lopez as well.
+
+[0:39] How you doing? Good. And holding down uh Nanaimo in Vancouver Island. We got Quinn. What's up?
+
+[0:48] Hey, I'm good. Yeah, Nanaimo. Um what do you guys uh what do you guys got for me? What what do you got for the uh the week? We are on a all tangent, all tangent Tuesday.
+
+[0:59] Great. Yeah. And by the way, before we do anything, at the risk of everyone immediately turning off. Well, I'll do it at the end. Quinn, at the end, when the when the when the music comes back, I'll just start reading the Shazandros spec, all right?
+
+[1:12] I have it with me. All right? Okay. All right. I mean, maybe.
+
+[1:18] I don't know, man. Just let me know. All right. All right, what do you guys what do you guys got for the week? Okay.
+
+[1:24] I had a really frustrating uh Valentine's Day dinner because of the way the check came and it drove me crazy. It was a prefix. Okay. 120 bucks. Got like a couple supplements.
+
+[1:36] Which changes the math at the end of the day. And you were eating with someone. Yes. Not solo Valentine's Day, which is a power move. It is.
+
+[1:43] It is, it is. To go to a prefix by yourself. Bring a bring a bring a bud vase with a single rose and just set it next to your plate. Yeah, exactly. Power move.
+
+[1:54] Amazing. Yeah, because normally, no offense to all you folks out there, it's amateur night. Yeah. You know, anyone that's worked in a an establishment on Valentine's Day were like, ah. It's like, you know, it's the equivalent of like being forced to work a brunch service time in a timeout.
+
+[2:10] You know what I mean? It's like, come on, dude. Yeah. You know what I mean? Worst.
+
+[2:14] None of our regulators are here. Anyway, go ahead. All right. But so when the bill comes, they like the apps were like seven or eight bucks. Then the steak was 104.
+
+[2:26] I thought you said was That's what I'm saying. And so, and then the steak was listed as 130. Was it a supplement? S part of it came with a supplement, but basically they assigned the apps and the desserts like smaller values so that at the end when everything's tallied up, it comes out to that number. But when you're looking at the itemized list, it was just the most asinine way of breaking it down.
+
+[2:48] It was so confusing. Once you're doing a prefix, just do a prefix. Yeah. I don't care. Yeah.
+
+[2:53] You know? Exactly. Don't make it as confusing as possible to read that stuff. Like it's what do they have some stupid app on the back end that's like the food because this must be. You know what I mean?
+
+[3:03] Yeah, it was so dumb. Yeah. And like it's confusing too. Confusing. And like it didn't cause a scene, but I was like, can I speak to the manager?
+
+[3:10] Like, this doesn't seem good. Yeah. Is it not a restaurant that normally does a uh they do normally do only tasting menu? Yeah. What is the point of itemizing the taste?
+
+[3:24] I don't know. Somebody asked you a question. If you get a different appetizer, do they then jack the price of the steak and reduce the price of the appetizer, or vice versa? Let's say you I mean, like, not exactly. I'm not sure.
+
+[3:34] I mean, like it was so infuriating. As Chuck D said, this makes no goddamn sense at all. Exactly. You know what I mean? Exactly.
+
+[3:42] Yeah. I boy, do I. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh makes no goddamn sense at all. That's a great album, by the way.
+
+[3:49] Enemy 91, The Empire Strikes Black, Apocalypse 91, The Enemy Strikes Black. No one listened to that one. You know what I mean? It was a good album, though. Um they had a uh an a song that was just against the New York Post, basically just about how much they hated the New York Post.
+
+[4:08] Yeah. Yeah. America's oldest continuously published daily piece of Bull Beep. You know what I mean? Like, yeah.
+
+[4:15] That's 190 years of continuous effed up news. It's a gr it's it has a couple of flaws, but it's a it's a good song. Uh all right, what do you guys got? Any other Valentine's Day uh issues? No.
+
+[4:28] Not for me at least. No? No? I've got my four and a half-year-old nephew here visiting and staying with us, and he's re pretty much refused to eat anything the entire week. So uh that's been interesting.
+
+[4:41] Where's he from? Long Island, Connecticut? Where is he from? Connecticut. He's also feeling kind of sick, so that's part of it.
+
+[4:48] Um he's just it it just amazes me how a kid that age can have such a low caloric intake and still survive. Well, what does he normally eat in Connecticut? He's very picky eater. Yeah, well, yeah, I'm familiar with this problem, but what does he normally eat? You know, I don't know.
+
+[5:04] Mac and cheese is the thing he likes. So you're not making him mac and cheese, is that what I'm hearing? I we we offered it, and he's like, no, I don't want that. Because he's not feeling well. Um but we we ended up at an Izaqayo last night and dragged him along, and then out of nowhere, he just goes to the waitress.
+
+[5:20] He's like, I'll have Edabame. It's like, oh. Huh. Did he eat it? No, no.
+
+[5:25] Well, yeah, he did. Hey, you know what you gotta get for this kid? You gotta get this the same stuff that saved my son's cat. Right? We we spent I told this story.
+
+[5:33] We spent we we got a cat, right? And it had been living on the streets for six months. It was fine. They put it into a shelter, it catches like shelter cough or whatever and almost dies, cost us three grand. Three grand, which we don't have to spend on a cat I just met.
+
+[5:50] You know what I mean? I would barely save a person for three grand that I didn't know. You know what I mean? Yeah. Anyway, it turns out all you gotta do is rub this crap on the inside of their ear and they want to eat again.
+
+[6:00] And guess what? It works on people. So they make you put gloves on when you're uh applying this medicine to the cat's ear. The doctor says, the vet says, Well, you know, I don't wanna I don't wanna just, you know, I don't want to give you this med because it could cover up I'm like, cover up what? The cat's not eating, the cat's gonna die.
+
+[6:18] Give it the freaking stuff in the ear instead of bleeding me dry from my veins, three thousand dollars. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[6:27] Yeah. And then after the cat started eating again, we realized, oh, has a respiratory track infection, which resolved itself while it was eating and not dying, anyway. Uh try that with your uh mac and cheese nephew. But uh now you know, now that uh Stupak's not on the uh not on the show, you can tell us more about New Orleans too. Oh man, yeah, New Orleans is you know, what can you say about New Orleans?
+
+[6:53] Have you been to um the the the best place I like going now is uh Jewel of the South, which is um Chris Hannah's new spot. He's the bartender at um they showed the freaking seventy three. No, I know I know I know him, yeah, but I have not been, no. Oh, Jewel of the South is fantastic. Yeah.
+
+[7:10] Yeah, where what neighborhood is in it? It's in the quarter. Um, very, very good sweetbreads. Um, you know. The birthday celebration.
+
+[7:21] So we did the whole the caviar they had with um what did they serve it with? Some crème fresh and like little almost like fried potatoes, a little circular potato discs. Little circular potato discs. All right. By the way, have we ever discussed, I mean, I know we have that sweetbreads is one of those terms that seems specifically meant to treat us like children.
+
+[7:44] Have them. They're sweetbreads. You know what I mean? I mean, it does sound better than thymus gland. What do they call it in French?
+
+[7:51] Yeah, see? Like rice veal, yeah. Oh, rice, yeah. But like, anyway, but like sweetbreads, what are you getting it? Not the texture of, not the taste of contains gluten-free people.
+
+[8:03] Unless you f well, when you fry it, you bread it, you fry it, and then not how are these sweetbreads made? Fried. What? Fried. Yeah.
+
+[8:11] You know why? That's the way. That's the way. Dude, what about what about you, John? Do you have some sort of like weird braised sweet bread that you like?
+
+[8:17] I love all sweetbreads. Yeah. I think they're delicious, yeah. Had some last night for dinner actually. Come on, really?
+
+[8:22] At home? No, not at home. Well, not for my mom's birthday dinner. We went to the Tet Dor. Oh, yeah.
+
+[8:27] I've been there a million years ago. Oh no, no, I think it's like Daniel Balluste comes. No, no, no. I'm thinking about the door. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[8:34] Really want to go there too. Where they also have sweetbreads. Yes. But uh the thing about uh sweetbreads is that like I would love to meet the person who actually dresses like, uh whip up some sweet breads for dinner. Like it's just not one of those things that happens.
+
+[8:47] When you're home, you know what I mean? Where do you like I know Dietrich's down in Pennsylvania we can get them outside of there. I don't know where to get sweetbreads apart from like the wholesale distributors here ordering them online. Yeah, like you can't just like go to like your local key foods. Yeah, butcher big Y or anything like that, yeah.
+
+[9:06] Go to the big Y. Guys, we read what? They sell whole rabbits now there. Really? Yeah.
+
+[9:12] Yeah. Cartanium, but yeah. Wow. How are they? I haven't tried one yet, but I'm interested.
+
+[9:17] You know the thing I told you, I don't cook rabbit at home because of the whole tiny bone scenario. And I don't want to sit there boning it before I serve it. Yeah. Nightmare. It is.
+
+[9:27] Nightmare. Uh speaking of uh well no, we'll go ahead. We'll go ahead. I'll go to my crap, my crap later. All right, what else you got?
+
+[9:35] Wacky Jackie, what do you got? Oh me? Yeah, I I don't know. I mean, you know, it was a blur, New Orleans, but turkey chase, all good as always. Yeah, what do you have?
+
+[9:45] Maybe the best. Did you have the shrimp climbing, so the gumbo, the fried chicken, and um blow, maybe? Yeah. Yeah, listen. Yeah, what else did I have there?
+
+[9:58] You know, that was all I had. I know I've said this a bit. Oh, red beans and rice. Red beans and rice. I'm sure it was good.
+
+[10:02] Sure, that was good. Yeah. I know I've said this a million times, but I'm gonna say it again. I only in the past couple of years, actually, since that guy, Benjamin uh what's his name, who wrote The Secret Lives of Grocery came on, and we were talking about slave shrimp and how shrimp is no longer a luxury. Have I been going back and buying like good shrimp?
+
+[10:24] And shrimp dishes taste so much better when you use good shrimp. So much better. I mean, it's like, it's like the the shrimp that's like raised in concrete tanks with very low salinity, they're f they're fine, but they're Pablum. They are the chicken tenders of freaking shrimp. You know what I mean?
+
+[10:48] So, you know, buy like, you know, in in the States, Gulf shrimp, gotta gulf shrimp are delicious. Even like frozen, like wild cock gulf shrimp, delicious. And they just like, I'm just like, oh yeah, shrimp. They taste like shrimp. You know what I mean?
+
+[11:04] Because for a while, shrimp, a shrimp is moving up the echelon again back in the things and things I like and the power ranking of decapods. You know what I mean? It used to be that shrimp were above crayfish, because crayfish are just about the spices that you boil them and they have no flavor. Right? I mean, come on.
+
+[11:22] Does anyone here I like I like the mechanism of eating the crayfish? I like sitting down with a whole pile of bodies and then just like ripping the ripping the bodies apart and like popping the tails in my mouth. I love the whole kind of Godzilla aspect of it of like just being like, you know, you know, the destroyer of of worlds, but they don't have a lot of flavor other than the other than the crawfish boil that they're that they're cooked in. Even even the French preps, right? The ecrevice, even the old school, like, you know, actual, by the way, that's another thing.
+
+[11:53] You have America to thank if you're in Europe for the fact that you don't have a European crayfish anymore. You're welcome. You know what I mean? We've totally wiped them out. Just like we have with a lot of things, you know what I'm saying?
+
+[12:02] Yeah. But uh, even the official like uh ecrevice stuff, the old school stuff. I mean, is it is it ever your favorite decapod? No. No.
+
+[12:10] No. No. I mean, listen, even like a gulf shrimp, a real good crab, come on. Yeah. A real good crab.
+
+[12:17] Good crab. Yeah. Especially if someone else picks it. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, dude.
+
+[12:21] Especially if someone else picks it. That's why I want, I want to see those. I would wish we could visit someone who had that machine that does the automatic picking. Can you imagine just sitting there like crabs in, meet out, crabs in, meet out? Be wild.
+
+[12:34] Yeah. Anyway, um, what were we talking about? How did I get to that? I wasn't even talking about what I was cooking. Oh, I was talking about shrimp.
+
+[12:43] Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I highly recommend people that if you if if you are used to buying just the uh the farm shrimp, the you know, block farm shrimp, which is what I've been block, not black, block farm shrimp that I, you know, the frozen in blocks that I've been buying for years. Just go get some golf, go get some golf shrimp, man. You know what I mean?
+
+[13:01] Or whatever happens to be the good wild caught shrimp in your vicinity. It's just so much different, so much better. Um, and not that much more expensive. I mean, more expensive. I mean, like twice as much.
+
+[13:14] But, you know, not I think they can't charge as much for the good shrimp as they maybe used to just because they're competing with the crap shrimp. Yeah. You know what I mean? Probably. So they're probably getting squeezed.
+
+[13:26] It's probably not great for the shrimper. You know what I mean? It's never great for the shrimper. Never great for the shrimper. Never.
+
+[13:33] Not big shrimping. No. No. No. Uh all right.
+
+[13:36] So anything anything you had there that you did not like, don't call out the people, but any like horrible, horrible food or or drinks. No, no way. St. Germain, by the way, that was the other place. Incredible tasting menu there.
+
+[13:49] Yeah. Do you ever go to like the old school? Like, do you go to Napoleon House when you go down there? Yeah. I love that.
+
+[13:56] Or you know, a quick something. Yeah. I love that place. I remember when it was an air conditioning. In a Pim's cup there.
+
+[14:03] Yeah. I mean, what else are you going to get? You could get a Sazerac, I guess. But you go there, you get a Pim's cup. You get like a half of uh the muffaletta, so you can have a hot muffaletta, and then you know that fortifies you for whatever else you're doing till you get to your next place.
+
+[14:16] You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Parkway, I think is still the best po boy, by the way. Oh, yeah.
+
+[14:22] So uh George Moats, who is re-releasing his uh hamburger Americ hamburger America book, another edition of it's coming out. Uh he had a bunch of stuff to it. Oh, you're just giving you're trolling me. Nice. Listen, I handed that in.
+
+[14:36] I'm being I'm being ghosted by my editor. We'll see what happens. So um the yeah, he's releasing. He's gonna come back in in a in a month or two to talk about it. But he he now has I forget which oh Camilla Camilla Camellia Camilla Grill in uh New Orleans, their hamburger po boy.
+
+[14:53] And he had the uh is it Liegenheimer or Leidenheimer, the famous Pope Boy bread, had it shipped up frozen. That bread is crazy. The po' boy bread is nuts. So the people who get it in New Orleans, they they get it like every day, sometimes twice a day, because that stuff does not last. You know what I mean?
+
+[15:11] It's one of those breads that cannot be made to last. What's really weird to me, and I'm sure we'll talk about it when George is on, but is all of the various different breads that look very similar to that, but are all completely different. You know what I mean, in terms of their function. And if you give the wrong one to the wrong person, they will call you terrible, terrible names. Like uh, like if you handed a poeboy roll to someone trying to make a bon me, they'd be like, What what?
+
+[15:39] You know what I mean? Um Poe Boy bread is supposed to be like oh, this weird, it's a weird, dry exterior and like a not dry, fluffy interior. I can't really describe it. What can you describe it, Jack? You just had it most recently.
+
+[15:55] Yeah, I it I mean, it's like French bread, right? Well technically, I mean, no one in France would eat that bread. That's what I'm saying. There's all there's all these things that go by quote unquote French bread or like hero rolls, right? Or even like is it like an American when an American says an Italian roll, do they basically mean a French roll with sesame seeds on it?
+
+[16:15] I mean, what is it? What is it really, right? But like no. But it's like it's like paper thin. It's it's you know but like paper thin and like the the the thin outside, like it just doesn't last because that weird dry outside skin versus the that interior being soft, it just I don't know, it just can't last.
+
+[16:34] So they freeze them. If they're gonna ship them, they freeze them and then thaw them, you know, very specifically right before service. Like not like hours before service. They thaw them right before service. Uh anyways.
+
+[16:45] So that's why the best poised are at places like Parkway where they actually bake the bread, yeah. Yeah, well, but but this so this bakery, Leenheim or Leidenheimer, I can't remember. Uh they do something like they they do tens of thousands a day. T many tens of thousands a day. And they're cranking it out of the same bakery they've been using since like 1909.
+
+[17:09] You know what I mean? It's like it's uh it's a lot. Yeah. Um boy what's well okay. What's your pool of choice?
+
+[17:18] Now I have to get into this freaking thing. For me, fried shrimp or the half when they do a half and half like fried shrimp, fried oyster. I like the seafood. I'm a debris guy. All the like scrape scrapings off the outside of the beef debris at like uh what's that place called?
+
+[17:35] Uh Mama's right, right? Mamas? Mother's mothers. Yeah, that place is delicious. The debris, yeah, the debris sandwich there.
+
+[17:42] Yeah. Serious business. Very good. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[17:45] Serious business. Yeah. Anyway. Uh all right. Uh Stas, what do you got for me?
+
+[17:53] Well, you're coming to LA. Uh yes, but what do you have for our listeners? You want you want you to push going to LA? Yeah. I will be in Los Angeles from when am I going to be there?
+
+[18:07] Um February 26th. Yeah. What am I doing that people can come to, though? They can come to your talk with Harold McGee at Mount Serving. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[18:18] Okay, and that is on the Wednesday. It's almost sold out, so actually it might be sold out. I don't know. But it was almost sold out yesterday. So Kevin Jung from Noma is going to moderate Harold McGee and I talking about I'm not sure what.
+
+[18:33] Right. Does expertise really matter in the age of AI, I think is the saying. Nope. Don't need to come. Nope.
+
+[18:44] There it is. There's the answer. Yeah, I'm I'm sure I'll stretch it, but that's basically it. Nope. Yeah.
+
+[18:50] Uh oh, we have a caller? Caller, you're on the air. Hey, this is Patrick Cullen from Brooklyn. How are you guys? All right.
+
+[18:58] How you doing? Good. Hey, I have a uh a roo question uh on the New Orleans theme, which is uh um I know Quinn has mentioned doing the roux in the oven. And I was trying this and it was taking too long. Then I was trying to make a really dark roue on uh 120 induction hooktop and uh and a um crusade uh enameled cast iron, you know, whatever it's enameled cast iron.
+
+[19:29] And I assume I don't have your little Let me let me guess it burnt it burned in the in the La Crusade. No, the opposite. Really? Is that is that I could hold it on the highest setting and it didn't it it seemed to infinitely not be able to burn. And I can assume that the induction thing throttled down or something.
+
+[19:51] Yeah, that's what that's what happened. I'm curious. I'm I'm I'm curious if you had a better setup, like a control freak, is there a temperature you would be setting to to get the rue darkness and it would hold, are you going above and it's a question of time? And this I guess the same thing with with with the oven. So uh yeah, 100%.
+
+[20:13] I I I get you and I'm asking it's odd that you aren't so most of my tests with powerful induction things on cast iron, and let's just like a lacrosse or le crusay, le crusay, yeah. Lucet is fundamentally cast iron with an enamel coating on the outside of it. And the issue with cast iron is that you can get hot spots because it actually takes a long time for the heat to radio outs uh radiate out. So most induction things, if you if you uh take flour and just sift flour, a fine layer of flour dry into uh your pan and then put it on the induction and then hit go at a hundred percent, you can see the areas of the pan that get hot fastest by how fast they uh how fast they you know brown your your flour out. And you'll notice in most cast iron pans that you test that you'll see a very definite ring for the induction uh unit where it's heating it just because it takes a long time.
+
+[21:11] And also, I tell my son this all the time, I don't know why he won't listen to me. It's like he doesn't trust that I have any expertise whatsoever. So he would also agree that expertise does not matter in the age of AI. But I'm like, you cannot you should not set a cast iron pan on your finished cooking temperature and then immediately put food in because it's gonna overshoot and then come back down again on an induction thing, uh an induction thing, especially because the control freak is measuring from the center of the pan, but it's not heating from the center of the pan, it's heating in a ring shape. All right.
+
+[21:42] So that said, with a control control freak, for things like onions and alliums and sweating, I usually just set it to but depending on what condition it's in and how good your temperature probe is somewhere between uh 240 Fahrenheit and 250 Fahrenheit, right? And I just let it sit there for hours, right? Or for you know over an hour. And I move it around uh so that stuff stuff can move. I think for a roux it's gonna be slightly different.
+
+[22:09] You're never gonna get something that can be static that long because once you are browning, it will probably progress browning. It will just happen at a much slower rate than it would if your temperature was well above the browning point. But I would guess that if you did something like somewhere between 250 and 260 that you're gonna be relatively chill. I would say maybe 250. I would do I would start around 250 because one of the things with onions when you're doing them is they do eventually kind of brown out but a lot of that is actually sugar breakdown, actual caramelization, and the fact that the onions are slowly dehydrating as they're as they're cooking, right?
+
+[22:50] So in a roo, the dehydration happens relatively soon, I would uh guess, right? Because there's not that much uh butter in there. Um anyway, it was just making any or oil, depending on who you are or what you're doing. But uh, I think I think this makes it makes sense. And actually, you know, I have a product suggestion uh related to uh related to this.
+
+[23:11] Uh I feel like all the rants over the years on the show. I think like, you know, this is tying moisture management and anger management together. Yeah. So what if what if there was a product called the control freak, but control, comma freak exclamation point that you could actually hold your anger but hold it at a specific degree and not above instead of uh boiling over. Like this seems like it has your name written on written on it.
+
+[23:40] Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Control freak. Yeah, I get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[23:45] Right. I I could use this too. You know, just at two two 242, you know, you know, Fahrenheit. But not above, not above. Yeah, because you just maintain the anger at the constant temperature.
+
+[23:55] Yeah, if if I were an egg white, I would be over whipped very easily. You know what I mean? I go from I go from not you know having any peaks at all to being over whipped quite soon. You know what I mean? And in the window between the air mode, the air mode on this device, even though it's not a pressure cooker, it would just spew hot fat out.
+
+[24:15] Yeah. That's like when it just goes to the just you know, you have the wrong pot on it. So it's very dangerous because, you know, it's it mostly works, but then when it goes to that setting, you know, you could die in a hot, a hot chicken fat accident. Well, this is why you need multiple safeties on anything. This is why the f the first generation pressure cookers had such problems.
+
+[24:33] They didn't have multiple safeties. You need multiple, you need multiple safety, like things to vent on. You know what I mean? Well, the Kudric on the current manual, at least the one I have, says the accidents of your grandmother's pressure cooker are a thing of the past. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[24:44] Yeah. I mean without specifying without specifying which. Yeah, and without specifying my grandmother. You know what I mean? It's so funny.
+
+[24:58] Because like uh the thing is like that's really aimed at people my generation because the pe you know someone who's 20 now, their grandparents are what in their in their 60s, right? I don't know, 60s, 70s. I mean, like, my point is is that like, you know, pressure cookers have been okay for a long time. So it's people who are in their like 50s who are writing this copy, right? Thinking about like my grandparents, you know what I mean?
+
+[25:30] But like people who are in their 20s, their grandparents are 30 years younger. They didn't use pressure cookers because they were so frightened of my grandparents' pressure cooker. They should be like, don't be afraid of pressure cookers like your dumb butt parents. That's what they should say. You know what I mean?
+
+[25:43] Anyway, don't don't use this for bomb manufacturing, I think. Oh my yeah, well, you know, two I don't know, is it too soon? It was a long time. That but that's literally what happened. Like there was a pressure cooker bomb here uh on 23rd street.
+
+[25:56] I think no one was no one was killed, thankfully. And of course the the marathon bombing. But you know, listen, any th anything that can be sealed can be turned into a bomb, right? And you sometimes often by mistake. Uh I mean, this is this is this is not to not not to keep suggesting uh further tangent than I will I will I will hang up, but you know, the anarchist cookbook by Dave Arnold would just, you know, but it would be a menu of all the things you're not supposed to do with all your equipment, you know, and you have to you have to take your name off it.
+
+[26:24] Yeah, sort of, you know. Well, the thing is if your name's not on it, no one knows what the problem is. It's literally a cookbook, though. You know, it's really a cookbook. Well, this is like you know what's not literally a cookbook, and it somehow keeps getting put out as such as the futurist cookbook, right?
+
+[26:37] So there's the anarchist cookbook, which gives recipes, most of which will kill you as opposed to the you know, people that you're trying to cause anarchy with. But the futurist cookbook isn't even actually a cookbook. It's just like, you know, you know, put a cucumber in the middle of a dish and pour motor oil around it. And you're like, well, I hope people are leaving one one star reviews on on Amazon and they're you know, buying the future cookbook and making that dish and buying it to the case. Yeah, Amazon people are dumb enough to do that.
+
+[27:03] Or someone's like, the recipes were good, but the book arrived damaged, one star. You know what I mean? I'm like, whoa, so they were okay with the motor oil and the cucumber, but not with the fact that their book was dented. Jerks. Anyway.
+
+[27:13] Uh anyway, I'll I'll uh I'll I'll I will I will let you know further rue experiments. I'm not the the control freak, I do not have it, so I'm using a duck stop with with completely imprecise control. Listen, so you cannot trust I've said this, I know I've said it before, I'll say it one more time in case people don't want to go through the backlog. Get a kilowatt. You don't you need to use that brand name, but get uh, you know, one of those plugs that you plug into the wall and then plug your induction burner into it, and you can see how much it throttles down when it gets I was shocked because I was trying to measure, I was trying to measure a bunch of stuff when I was doing moisture management, and I could not believe how fast this induction burner throttled down because it did not have adequate um uh cooling for its circuit.
+
+[28:01] So it's just as soon as it can be. So it's something it's it's throttling down so it doesn't overheat. Correct. Period is the reason the program yeah. Program.
+
+[28:10] Okay. Yeah, but you know what it doesn't do ever? You know what it never does? It's never like, whoa, whoa whoa I suck I'm turning down now you know what I mean it doesn't tap out and be like hey and it's probably happening with the cast iron because you're probably heating the electronics more than you would be with like you know a pan that not it's not cast iron good good chance that you're probably throwing more I mean I have I have in another kitchen a like uh induction range that's on 220 I haven't tried this I'm guessing that one it's gonna scorch immediately a completely different experience but I haven't tried it when you're using I like I always say when you're using cast iron on induction just let it settle out like if you're if you you know let it settle just give it a couple minutes before you put the stuff in and then let it let it you know even and then it's fine. It was great.
+
+[28:58] You want it at the lower temperature like the lower temperature then bring it up to the high so that the even or does it really what I would do is like let's say you want it if you want it at like you know if you want it at 240 or 250 right if you set your induction at that and you put the cast iron on it like by the time the center's up the outside the the ring is going to be a like 35, 40 degrees hotter than that. But you know over the course of five ten minutes it'll all even out and then you're fine. So you like that that you know that's kind of what I mean. You could also just slowly ramp it up and then the the part of the ring will you know that where it's actually heating is never going to go crazy over. So you could use either but I think it's easier because you're not gonna hurt the pan with the amount of overheat that you have you know I would say it's easier just to just you know put it on let the pan preheat for a while and then you know cook as normal.
+
+[29:49] But yeah, get a kilowatt. They're only like 15 bucks, I think, on Amazon. You know what I mean? J they're fun just to have anyway, to see how much energy your equipment's actually pulling out of the wall. Got it.
+
+[30:00] All right, cool. I'll experiment. Thank you. All right, thank you. Um what do you got for me, Quinn?
+
+[30:08] You haven't said anything today. Yeah, I'm just waiting. Um I had a pretty good cooking weekend. Friday we did uh from scratch uh beans and weenies. So we did uh cranberry beans and a little black bean from dry, and then like a base of uh, you know, chamizonian, various paprika's a little ketchup, you know, like a sweet, sweet sort of barbecue-y flavored uh baked beans, not baked, but like a bean.
+
+[30:47] Do you make baked beans? Again, uh, we didn't bake these, but again, we it was uh, you know, just in like in life, do you make barbecue beans? And then we oh barbecue beans, yeah. I don't think we may we may not have with baked beans, you gotta ask yourself what sugar you're gonna use. And since you're in Canada, you should use Crosby's molasses.
+
+[31:14] Well, I actually I finished these non-baked but still barbecue beans with a little maple syrup. All right, that's also yeah, those like look, maple syrup, crosby's, you know. Just don't use don't use crap molasses, especially if you're in Canada and you have access to Crosby's. You know what I mean? Like, no offense to the grandma corporation.
+
+[31:36] But but don't use her. Yeah. This is not your grandma's molasses, you know what I mean? To to re reference the uh previous caller. Yeah, Crosby's.
+
+[31:46] Or if you're in the south of the United States, Steens, also good. You know what I mean? Steen's great. Crosby's good. Use a molasses that you're willing to put on your pancakes.
+
+[31:55] You know what I mean? Anyway. And the beans were good. I also had some beans I cooked. Yeah.
+
+[32:03] Go ahead. And we got some uh like all beef hot dogs from the local butcher. That was quite good. And then yesterday was Sunday into Monday. We did a breathed lamb neck that turned out uh very good as well.
+
+[32:20] Mm-hmm. What'd you would you would you first of all, hot dogs? How do you make them? I'm assuming with skins, correct? The beans were all my cooked them with the beans?
+
+[32:37] Well, yeah, but the beans were almost done. We grilled off a few of the hot dogs and then chopped them up and then threw them in for like last 20 minutes or so. Listen, I guess if you're gonna hack them up, the skin's not as important. But do you in general not like skinned hot dogs? Are we gonna have this argument now?
+
+[32:53] I do not wish to have this argument. I mean, I don't I don't eat a lot of hot dogs, to be honest. Okay. All right. So when uh when Robert Simonson comes on with his hot dog book, because isn't he writing a hot dog book now?
+
+[33:07] Is he? I know someone else is coming out with a hot dog book that we should um what's her name? I think Simonson. Simonson is puts out an awful lot of social media about hot dogs for someone who's not gonna do a hot dog book, considering that, you know, he'll write a he'll like wake up in the morning and sneeze and a book comes out. You know what I mean?
+
+[33:24] Faraday Sadegan, probably mispronouncing her name. Yeah, but yeah, she's coming out with a hot dog book and we should probably get her on. I'm not sure. But yeah, we should probably for sure. Yeah.
+
+[33:29] Where like where is she based out of? What city? I think here. New York? Yeah.
+
+[33:38] Oh god. All right. May 5th, yeah. All right, let's do it. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[33:43] I mean, like, you know, let's do it. Yeah. Yeah. You know uh I like a hot dog. No, you I know you like a hot dog.
+
+[33:49] And then we can have the all the arguments that we need to have at that point. And we could save them for then. Perfect. Yeah. So uh Quinn, you know what I cooked this weekend was the Austrian beans.
+
+[33:59] I finally finally cooked them off. This they're Scarlet Runner beans. Yeah, scarlet runner beans uh that were given to me. Uh thank you. Uh and um in in Austria, they're called beetle beans.
+
+[34:12] Uh in Austria, this is served as a cold salad, right? So you would cook the you would cook them in water, drain the water off, and then uh add chopped onion, um uh apple cider vinegar, salt, uh pepper, and sometimes uh some herbs, and then uh raw onion, right? And then you drizzle over it this Austrian uh pumpkin seed oil. Okay, so I didn't do that because one, it was a million degrees below zero, it hadn't heated uh, you know, warmed up yet. So I was like, I'm gonna do a hot prep.
+
+[34:47] And secondly, in my house, raw onions aren't a like they're kind of banned in my house, raw onions. So I substituted, so I did a hot prep, and instead of raw onions, grated radish, uh, because some other Austrian lady was like on the internet was like, you could use grated radish if you don't want the onion. Okay. Now, first of all, Scarlet Runner beans are delicious, right? So I just cooked them with very few spices.
+
+[35:10] I did it, you know, uh sando style, but I didn't s uh strain the liquor. I cooked them until they were tender, and then I threw them in the oven until most of the lick liquid had evaporated. So they were relatively dry, but they hadn't been drained. Uh then I served them with grated radish and this pumpkin oil. Now, the pumpkin oil, this Austrian pumpkin oil, I'd never had it before.
+
+[35:33] It is almost black. It is not like any other pumpkin seed oil I've ever used before. It is like looks like motor oil, but it is on these beans. It did oh, I did add the uh apple cider, by the way, for a little acidity. Uh apple cider vinegar.
+
+[35:51] The um it's delicious. It's this crazy dark pumpkin seed oil, real good. So, you know, kudos Austria and sorry that I did not eat it cold the way I'm supposed to. You know what I mean? I still have some pumpkin oil, so I can get like American runner beans, and then maybe the next time, you know, maybe I can buy myself, I can have them with the raw onion.
+
+[36:12] You know what I mean? You ever use grated radish on things? Not daikon, like like, you know, like like breakfast radish. Yeah, no, I haven't. It's good.
+
+[36:20] Yeah? Yeah. You grate it like you would, like, you know, you shred it like you would shred for like lotkas, but you know, but they don't weep, they're drier, right? And they're good because they have um that aggress a little bit of that aggressive hit that an onion would give you, but instead of onion. Yeah, radish.
+
+[36:37] Yeah. You know what else I did this weekend? Golden fullafo. Oh, how that go. Good.
+
+[36:44] So I made b so here's the thing, right? So for those of you that haven't been following uh my obsession with Crisco Corporation, which is that well, actually used to be Procter and Gamble, they came out with uh a uh a shortening that they had put beta carotene into and then creamed it up and they named it Golden Fluffo. And there was all these advertisements in the 40s and 50s where they would have like, you know, one half of the ad was fried in regular shortening and the other half was fried in golden fluffo and look how much better the golden fluffoe was. And you know, one was you know, biscuits done with regular shortening, and one was biscuits done with golden fluffo. So I ordered beta carotene and I used a vanishing amount, like vanishing, because I was looking up trying to figure out how much to add.
+
+[37:26] So I added a tenth of a percent of at one tenth, so a tenth of a gram, a l one point one 0.11 grams into a stick of butter, right? I then heated it up to about 160 Fahrenheit, stirred it in, and then I did the same to another stick of butter. I just melted it but with no beta carotene in it, right? And then this is just buying bulk beta-carotene supplements off of Amazon. I then uh put them both into ice cube molds and froze them, right?
+
+[37:56] And then grated them into my standard kind of biscuit recipe, which is um off the top of my head, like 196 uh grams of uh buttermilk, like 11 grams of uh baking powder, like a gram of soda, like probably on the order of 10 grams of sugar, I don't remember, and I think 200 grams of flour and eighty grams of butter. All right. So you grate the butter and some salt. You grate the the butter into the into the flour, stir it, then mix in the s uh mix in the liquid. That you can dissolve the salt into the liquid, by the way, if you're using kosher, if you don't have finely uh you know, grant granulated salt, then uh you make it into a dough, rest it in the fridge for a half hour, roll it, trifold it, roll it, trifold it, cut it, bake it.
+
+[38:44] And I said to people, which one of these do you like? And no one could tell the flavor difference. There was no flavor difference whatsoever. Now I I could try more, but they did look better. They looked more, they didn't look crazy orange, they didn't look oompa loompa.
+
+[39:00] So I was afraid to go too high on the beta carotene because it would go, you know, carrot colored, oopaloompa. But at a tenth of a per uh cent, it was good. And more people preferred the the golden fluffo alike than than not. So I'm wondering whether I can just mix it into the buttermilk, maybe instead of mixing it in, doing all the thing like having to mess with the butter. I haven't tried it in fried goods, and I'm not gonna be able to do a side-by-side because I don't have two identical 3,000 watt fryer modifieds that I can do, one with beta carotene oil and one without.
+
+[39:31] So I'm not gonna be able to side-by-side that. But the initial tests were people enjoyed the beta carotene. So it could be something you could just sprinkle in as a food color. No one noticed a flavor difference. When you're frying, the beta carotene should, because it decomposes into vitamin A, I think it decomposes into.
+
+[39:46] Uh you should be able to realize some antioxidant benefits in your oil as well, maybe. Anyway, so that's what I was doing. That's what I was doing this weekend. Um, Nick W. Well, Nick, Nick wants to know about the coffee trials.
+
+[40:02] It's basically just the the same stuff that's in the book. So it's nothing new. We've we basically followed that recipe. The only difference is I use a much more accurate grinder than I used uh when I wrote the uh original book, and I now use a tank. And I recommend that anybody who uses uh rapid uh nitrous infusion, go buy the tanks while they're still legal and get the adapter that adapts the tank to your to your EC.
+
+[40:30] Um just remember that you're losing, I forget the number because it's off the top of my head, but you're losing something on the order of 15 PSI going through the check valve into the into the EC. So you have to set it. I would set it to be not the the regulator that you buy to take the tank that is honestly only used to use nitrous as a drug. They're only really selling these tanks so that you can use the nitrous as a drug. And they only sell these regulators to try to pretend that you're using them for whipped cream.
+
+[41:00] Let's be honest about this, right? But um, if you set the regulator too high, it will vent catastrophically. So what you want to do is turn the regulator all the way down and then put it onto your bottle and then turn it up until it, you know, make sure that it's stable. But you can pretty much go as high as you want. You're not gonna hurt the the e the EC with the regulator that you have, and then keep it constant for your for your tests.
+
+[41:29] And that way you can do any amount that you choose, right? You don't have to worry about how much uh you're doing. So anyway, that's what we're doing. Um Nibble says, Nibble, Nibble wants to know about the hood I'm using. I've not been able to install the hood.
+
+[41:45] I cannot work on the here's the problem. I cannot work in my apartment on the weekend, and I don't have as much time during the week before five when I can work on the hood as I want. So right now, just like a car that has been stripped of its wheels, uh is it is sitting on blocks on top of my stove. I've left like four burners open, but uh, you know, the rest are covered up. And so like it's just literally sitting there like hood like above my stove, but uh not not yet uh attached.
+
+[42:15] So I will let you know. Also, the hood that I got has a ridiculous amount of like this the CFM rating on it is absurd. It literally has inside of it four fans that go into two 10 inch, 10 inch ducks. Is it 10? No.
+
+[42:34] Is it eight? It's big. It's eight. Two big eight inch round ducks, which I then have to like take both to the ceiling over and then out my window in a way that is not very apparent to people, right? Now, this amount of uh if you turn this all the way on, I think it would suck every door into building shut.
+
+[42:57] You know what I mean? So it would require makeup air. Now, the problem with makeup air is is you don't want to pull the makeup air from where you're pulling, from where you're pushing out your fumes. Otherwise, you could short circuit it. So in my house, that's a little bit of a problem.
+
+[43:12] If I want makeup air, I have to get makeup air from basically the same window. So if I'm shooting out of the top, I need to get it in from the bottom. So I can do it, but the reason I viciously overpowered this hood is because I can turn it on low and still have a lot of suction and it will be blessedly quiet, right? Right now, like hoods that are incredibly loud are so so irritating. That's why if you have the money and the space and your own house, right?
+
+[43:48] Just the the putting the putting the fan on the outside of your house so that you don't have to hear it. Oh you know what I mean? Right, John? Yeah, no, 100%. You know, I mean, professional kitchens are irritating, but you can't hear the hood.
+
+[43:59] But you shouldn't be able to hear it too much. Yeah. I mean, a little bit. Yeah, yeah. How much do you love in a restaurant when people when you don't balance the hood right and people can't open the door?
+
+[44:14] Infuriating. Yeah, the worst. Yeah. Nothing says welcome like I can't open the door. Exactly.
+
+[44:21] You know what I mean? Or the in the winter, the inner door slams shut. Yeah. That's the best. I love it.
+
+[44:27] I love it. Well, at least you haven't well had an inner door. Like, like for us, like uh the way that the bar contra is is that the front door is like 12 feet tall. Yep. You know what I mean?
+
+[44:37] So uh it goes all the way up to the top of where we're allowed to do anything, right? The entire front face of the building where the door is a door. So what that means is I cannot put a vestibule on the street, right? And you can't put a vestibule on the inside because that's half of our seats, right? So, like fundamentally, there's no way around this problem.
+
+[45:02] We have a curtain, but people move curtains, and then the person who's sitting right by it, they're getting their butt froze off. Yep. You know what I mean? No winning. No winning.
+
+[45:11] New York City, yeah. Well, you know, remember, uh, we went this goes back to our New Year's episode. You know, it's just a series of irritating tiny losses. Yes, exactly. You know what I mean?
+
+[45:22] Yes. Life is just one tiny loss after the yeah, yeah. Tiny losses are the new big wins. There you go. That's sad.
+
+[45:30] You know? Yes. Yeah. Uh hey Stas, what else are we doing, by the way, in LA that people can go do? I think she was disconnected.
+
+[45:37] Yeah. I think we're doing some other stuff. I might be doing some stuff with uh, I don't know if Mike's in town from uh Thunderbolt or whether he's doing work in Denver, but uh Harold McGee will be there. I know Ariel's coming into town. I'll be there.
+
+[45:52] We're probably gonna do something else that uh folk can do uh if she comes back on. Um desert platypus. I think we already answered this question about using uh high proof, right? We did the infusion stuff last week, I think when uh Alex was here. Yeah.
+
+[46:08] All right. Uh and we also talked about Yerba Mate when Alex was here. Yeah, we do. That's still on the on the questions list. Delicious sodas.
+
+[46:17] Uh okay. Sherry, uh we didn't talk about this. Sherry uh said, uh, following up on the discussion of live fire cooking. Could you explain the off on, off on process? Is it good for any type of protein?
+
+[46:28] Yes. Uh would also be interested in any other resources. Unfortunately, there uh Sherry, there aren't that many resources out there on this technique. So I'll give you my history with the technique, and you know, John who's shaking his head in agreement can, you know, weigh in on his history with the technique. But it goes back to this.
+
+[46:48] Everybody knows what I'm gonna tell you this, and you're gonna immediately be like, yeah, everyone knows that. Rotisseries are delicious, right? Rotisserie cooked foods are good, right? Why is it that rotisserie cooked foods are good? Why?
+
+[47:05] It's because there is a high, high instantaneous heat input, right? But a low average heat input because the food is constantly rotating away from the source of heat and allowing that area to cool down. So what it does is it very slowly cooks your meat, pushes the temperature of your food up, right? But at the same time providing a nice crust on the outside. This is why rotisseries are and have been for centuries considered a very good way to cook meat, right, John?
+
+[47:38] Yeah. Yeah, rotisserie. Yep. Yeah. And this is what Harold McGee, because we used to talk all the time, Harold McGee was like uh, you know, Arnold's law of instant high instantaneous heat, low average heat equals delicious, right?
+
+[47:51] And true. But I had never thought about it in terms of cooking in an oven or in terms of cooking on live fire. However, if you talk to people like, let's say David Kinch or like, let's say Thomas Keller, right, they have known that the way that they've been cooking uh in their restaurants, once they decided that everyone knew how to use an immersion circulator and that everyone knew how to do sous vide and it was no longer the cool kid trick anymore, right? That they were going to go back to older techniques to get the same effect. So they started doing things like their chickens would go in and out of the oven a billion times.
+
+[48:28] Or uh people who were frying things, you'd fry not once, not twice, you'd fry two, three, four times because you're trying to do this the same thing. So this is actually a technique that has been used traditionally forever. It's just people don't really talk about it in this way, right? As being a cooking strategy. Um it really came to my attention that this was the strategy I wanted to use for live fire cooking when I started using a tandoor, right?
+
+[48:54] Because a tandoor, uh the way that I would heat it, if you're heating your tandoor hot enough for non, right? So in non-bread, you're actually sticking it against the um outside of the, you know, that you're actually sticking it against the wall of the oven and it's cooking, you know, in like a minute. You know, it's cooking, I don't remember the exact numbers, but fast, right? And any oven that's hot enough to do that is too hot to cook a piece of chicken all the way through without burning, right? And so I became accustomed to in and out and in and out.
+
+[49:24] And then I realized that, oh, this is a very similar operation to what you would get um in a rotisserie situation. But you can do it on any size of meat, right? You can do it on any size of anything because you can just adjust how many times you pull it in and out. And you can do it based on getting the outside crust and the inside exactly the way you want it, because really the crust never gets so much that you're not happy with it. No one's ever like, oh, that's it's too good on the outside.
+
+[49:52] You know what I mean? Is that ever happened to you, John? No. No. No one's ever like, oh, too delicious on the outside.
+
+[49:56] What's wrong with you, jerk? It doesn't happen, right? Uh and so I adapted that also now when I'm doing horizontal cooking, right? So I was hashtag vertical grilling for forever, right? Which is tandor.
+
+[50:08] And then even when I went horizontal again, when I went back to horizontal grilling, now I'm I'm much higher flame than I normally would, and off on, off on, off on, off on. And it's also more um, it's more what's it called, uh forgiving. So if you're if your heat starts dying down, but you've already cooked the stuff mostly through and you're just going off on, off on to do like a last bit of heat as you're warming up, it's a lot more forgiving for having coals die down in one area. It's also because you're moving food around a lot, it allows you to uh adjust for the hot spots to the cold spots on your grill more easily. But it also works uh with regular cooking in an oven and in a pan.
+
+[50:48] And what do you anything to add on that, Don? No, I mean that sounds good. I added a couple articles uh in the Discord talking about this, if you want to read more behind it. So who wrote the articles? McGee and Kenji.
+
+[51:01] Yeah. So McGee used to have the uh flipping burgers argument, which I think is slightly uh different, right? Uh that was the old school thing. But yeah, I'm a big believer in uh off again, on again. It's the way I do it, it's the way I do everything.
+
+[51:14] And it it is, I think, even though it's very old technique, not one that people talk about enough. And it's in it's it's you know, it's what the miracle of moisture management was all about, right? It's it is my it is my preferred way to manage moisture in meat. Uh and yes, it works on all meats uh and other things as well. But uh proteins, yeah.
+
+[51:35] Yeah. Okay. Um Balloon Knot wants to know uh are there any culinary applications where fume silica is the superior choice? Well, to what? To other silica.
+
+[51:46] Uh fume silica is very fine, almost like nanoparticle silica that I guess is deposited on services because they kind of vaporize it. And I looked I've never used it. I use the the way that I use silica, I use Kesel Sol, which is a silica salt, right? It's it it's in liquid. Uh and I use it as a fining agent because you know, silica has a silica suspended silica has a a charge, right?
+
+[52:14] And because it's very, very small, uh, it is uh a colloid, so it doesn't settle out, right? Even though it is fundamentally sand, right? Uh but I don't really know what you would use fuse silica for. I've sorry, fume silica, fumed, not fused. Um, you know, people use it i as a as a thickener.
+
+[52:33] I I can't really figure out what you would use it for in food. They use it as an anti-caking agent. They use it, but I don't uh I'm any nano any newish nano nanoparticles, I'm a little bit nervous about using until you know how the nano-ness affects, and I'm not hyperword silicon in your lungs kill you. You know what I mean? Like that I know for sure.
+
+[52:58] But you're not inhaling this stuff. I mean, I definitely don't inhale it. But you never know. Like w silica that gives you lung disease is a very pneumoconiosis, right? Is a specific range of silica sizes, right?
+
+[53:12] So sand isn't going to give you a pneumoconiosis, right? Uh, because your lungs will reject it. And it might be that a nanoparticle is small enough to also not give you silicosis. But like, so the reason asbestos, which isn't silica but is, you know, related, uh, it was so so dangerous is because the particle sizes that it would make were perfect for embedding in and giving you cancer in your lungs and in in in the you know, pleura around the lungs, mesothelioma. So the particle size can make a very big difference in the potential danger to your system.
+
+[53:45] So anytime there is a new particle size that something is that you're using in a food stuff, if you're gonna inhale it, or this I mean it's a I'm not saying I I'm not saying that it's bad. I'm saying I'd like to know a little bit about it. So I don't really know how to use it. Uh, but you know, you let me know. You let me know, balloon knot what you want, what you're looking to do, and you know, me school me on it.
+
+[54:08] Uh West M says, I recently found an old set of who waterless cookware. Uh I've mentioned uh waterless cooking a few episodes. I mentioned it. I used to mention it a lot. I saw a video of some food network test kitchen guy doing that, and he did it in a little crese.
+
+[54:22] And he's like, Where's the where does the water? Where'd it go? It's like you need a seal around the lid. Yeah. So yeah.
+
+[54:28] I don't know. Listen. Uh I'd love to know some good applications to tech techniques and why use it over other ways of cooking. So waterless cooking, there's a there's a okay. Okay, okay, okay, okay.
+
+[54:41] This was a movement that started a long time ago. Long time ago. But the first waterless cookers that were sold as quote unquote waterless cookers were sealed aluminum. They were made by oh no, who made them? One of the companies is still around.
+
+[54:58] Like they uh I have like three or four of them. You gotta be careful because the early ones have asbestos in the bottom. Okay? For real. Uh and what you do is is they sealed, and then they had a heat moderator on the bottom.
+
+[55:10] So you put a moderate amount of heat on the bottom, and then it just make it just vaporizes the water that's in the food already. So you're not adding water, that hence waterless. And because the vessel is sealed, right? It will keep that moisture in there. So you're locking the moisture that it came with.
+
+[55:29] You you you end up roughly with the amount of moisture that you started with because you're not venting anything to the atmosphere. That's the theory. Now, they're not sealed. So anytime that you actually boil something in it, right? Any sort of X well, the actually the early ones are kind of sealed.
+
+[55:46] Not like enough to blow the lid off, but it takes a very tiny amount of pressure over pressure to blow the lid off of something. Right. If you think about it, right? If you think about something that's 10 inches across, right? What's can anyone do that math real quick?
+
+[56:01] How many square inches that is? I can't. No. Someone who can do that math. So 10 is five.
+
+[56:07] Most things are bigger than 10, right? Let's say it's 12. So that's six. So six inch radius, right? Six inch radius squared is 36, right?
+
+[56:16] Times pi, right? Pi r squared. So you got 36 times three, 100, right? So uh half a PSI of overpressure is like 50 pounds pushing up, right? So very, very hard to actually create pressure inside of a pot where the lid isn't being actively held down by clamps, right?
+
+[56:38] Um, right? Okay. So what you're doing is is you're trying to just add enough like energy such that you're creating a steam environment but not losing a lot of liquid. And so this early waterless cookware was kind of semi-sealed but not 100% sealed, and there would be a vent in the top where it would vent excess pressure so that you wouldn't blow the blow the lid off, and you're trying to make it such that you wouldn't vent anything. Uh the more modern, i.e.
+
+[57:04] 20s and 30s ones were made by the Guardian serviceware people, and those ones are just a heavy, well-machined aluminum lid that sat down in it. And also the electric waterless cookwares that they still sell to this day, right, uh, are just about well-fitting lids, right? That have like uh almost like a liquid seal, like a like a liquid seal or ring seal around them, such that if you add extra energy, they will, you know, vent, but they won't naturally just let stuff evaporate off. And what are they good for? Well, they're really good for so if you're doing a braise, you actually want to get rid of some liquid.
+
+[57:42] Don't let anyone tell you that you don't, right? But you want to control it. So in some waterless cookware, what you can do is is you can evaporate off the amount of liquid that you want and then turn the temperature down. Or if you're cooking in the oven and you don't want to let any more moisture go, you can do it that way. But what I use it for mostly now is potatoes.
+
+[58:00] They're my favorite way to make mashed potatoes. So you do waterless cooking of the potatoes, you add a little bit of water because nothing's perfectly sealed. And then when you mash them, you've added no water. And so I think they're they're really good. Um drink spec.
+
+[58:14] Yeah, yeah. Uh all right. Well, I have another drink spec to give. Uh Lavin wants to know about the purple cab, which is a low alk at the bar. I'll give you my version, the one that's gonna be in the next version of the book.
+
+[58:26] We don't do the same one at the bar. At home, the spec that I originally wrote was with milk syrup, and then at the bar they use cream syrup. And they also, because Jeremiah, you know, is Jeremiah, it has to be some sort of natty wine. Whereas at home, I use a big old American Cabernet, right? So it's two ounces of uh my this is my spec.
+
+[58:45] Two ounces of full-bodied fruit forward cabernet Sauvignon, uh, a half ounce of milk syrup, and so milk syrup is is uh equal parts uh by weight of milk and sugar, blended until the milk is dissolved, and then to every liter of that you add a half ounce of 15% citric acid to stir it in so that it it it kind of pre-curdles so that it won't break when you make the drink. You can do the same thing with cream, just don't do it in a blender. That's what they use at the bar, they use cream. Uh half ounce of glassid, which we've uh talked about many times before, half ounce of filtered water because it's not going to dilute as much because it's low alcohol, and two drops of saline, uh, and then you shake it. Uh and then for the one at the bar is uh very similar.
+
+[59:26] It's uh but it's cream syrup instead. All right. Uh and they also at the bar we use uh a mixture of gum arabic and sand fan just to add a little more foaminess to it, which called glop. I have that recipe somewhere we can we can talk about it later. Um for the shit oh uh Kevin, I think it's Kevin.
+
+[59:45] Well, I'm gonna see him in a week. He wants to know more about induction burgers, burners and donabes, but I don't have the time to talk about it now. The Chizandra spec is remember all solution all infusions are in boiling water until they're cool. I'm gonna give you the number of grams in the number of milliliters of that. All right, that's how it's gonna work.
+
+[1:00:01] It is 0.3 milliliters of saline solution at 20. This is a Schizandra spec, our non-alk. Uh 22.5 of polydextrose 5050. That's a one-to-one simple syrup polydextrose. Uh 30 of uh juniper 10200, so 10 grams per 200 uh with some quinine added to it.
+
+[1:00:19] Uh a little bit of succinic acid, uh 7.5 mils of myrrh 3200, 22.5 of Buddhist hand cordial, but you could use a grapefruit cordial if you want, uh, which is like an oleo cordial. Uh 30 of uh Kinchona bark 3200, uh, and 90 of Schizandra 3200. Get very high quality, like uh we use Korean Schizandra uh berries, and uh that's it, carbonate it, chill it and carbonate it, and that's it. Uh, we'll see you guys next week on cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City News Stance Studios. No John today is still shoveling out from our massive snowstorm up there in uh the great state of Connecticut, but I got Joe Hazen rocking the panels. What's up? Hey, welcome to the show.
+
+[0:27] Yeah, yeah. Uh over there on the left hand side, let's start at the top. We got Quinn. What's up? Hey, okay.
+
+[0:36] Good, good, good. And then down in the Los Angeles area, we have Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. What's up? What's doing? Hi.
+
+[0:44] Hey, hey, by the way, God willing crick don't rise because it might snow again tomorrow morning. I'll be in Los Angeles uh tomorrow. So, you know, check out all of our stuff. What's your ticket? Yeah, I did find my ticket.
+
+[0:58] You ever buy you ever buy a ticket from one of these like flyby nights? Like my ticket, even though I'm all in the United States, is literally handled by some crazy Australian company that you can't even talk to. And it has a name very similar to JetBlue, like Jet Abroad. And so, like, I'm looking for this crap. I'm like, oh, I don't have a ticket.
+
+[1:17] You know what I mean? And then if you try to call JetBlue, they're like, that's $50. You want to talk to me? That's $50. You want me to look at your reservation for you?
+
+[1:24] $50. Anyway, uh, Jackie Molecules, how you doing? Good. Is it worth the discount to go that route instead of just buying with an airline? Yo, I don't know, man.
+
+[1:34] I don't know. I don't know how anything works anymore. You know what I mean? Oh man, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, isn't it punishment enough to have to live in New York City and travel, much less having to deal with like the Mishigash on either side of it?
+
+[1:50] Well, I wouldn't know. It's beautiful and sunny right now here. No. Actually, you know what? Listen, crap on you.
+
+[1:56] New York City's most glorious time is the 35 seconds that the snow is beautiful before it turns all yellow and filthy. You know what I mean? That's true. That's true. I'm sure I missed that.
+
+[2:07] Yeah, we had a major snow. For those of you that don't know or listen to this at some point in the future, we had a major snowstorm, our second major one of the year, which we haven't had in over a decade. And it was a real wet snow on Sunday night. So, and it was and the city gets really light when it snows because all the lights are still on in the city, but then it reflects off the snow, so you get this weird, like like movie effect. And the snow was so wet, it was sticking to all the trees.
+
+[2:34] Probably real bad for the trees, but the trees looked like they were made of snow, completely gorgeous, and made it worth living in this hellhole for that one second that I was looking at that. The next day there was tree limbs on on top of cars and awnings falling down and stuff. Yeah, like I said, like I say, becomes a hellscape rather quickly. Uh and we got Jackie Molecules, what's up? Yep.
+
+[2:57] Yep. And then uh today's special two guests in the studio from uh the new cookbook, the Lion Dance Cafe Cookbook, which you might have supported their Kickstarter, in which case you've already ordered it. But if you're not available at certain booksellers uh near us, for instance, Kitchen Arts and Letters, where if you were a member of the Patreon, you can go and get a discount. We have CY Chia and Shane Stanbridge. How are you doing?
+
+[3:21] Doing great. Thanks for having us. Yeah. Thank you. Hey, thanks for coming on.
+
+[3:25] And I have a physical, actual hard copy. I read the PDF version, but now I have a physical hard copy. That's yours. Yeah, nice, awesome. Um, by the way, for those of you that uh uh care about the sandwich, which you should, right?
+
+[3:39] They have signed copies available at Kitchen Arts and Letters, and I am pretty sure that you can buy the signed copies from them where the way if not, you could just call them. This is what this is what I'm saying. You're dealing with actual human beings when you deal with kitchen arts and letters. So and we're not selling on Amazon. Yeah, you know, well, you know what?
+
+[3:55] God bless you. God bless you. Uh, but they're but they're like how many did you print? Uh we got 2,000 printed. Yeah.
+
+[4:02] Um we might do another run. Yeah, dude. Almost all claimed already. Yeah. And that's that's the MOQ.
+
+[4:07] 2000 is the MOQ. Uh that means their minimum order quantity for those of you that don't make things out there. Yeah, it's uh no, we we we got like a thousand. We we had options, but like 2000 was like the better, like the best price for what we expected we'd sell. Right.
+
+[4:24] Um good sweet spot in that you get a little bit of a break off, but you're not stuck with a billion books. Exactly. And like we're moving to Singapore, so that's uh it would be a bit of a bummer to like have to cart all those books. Which we we carted a bunch of books out here. That sucks.
+
+[4:41] Uh along with like a bunch of uh frozen Miis uh for our superiority burger pop up last night. Mies not mise en place or me's like noodle? Uh Mies like uh mise en place. Like uh like we had like uh in the book we talk about like a rempah, like the spice paste for the uh for the Luxa, like so it freezes extremely well. Um so we had like blocks of REM paw that we packed in a cooler on dry ice, and like two days after after two days of transit to New York, it was still rock solid nice.
+
+[5:15] So yeah. It was uh great uh uh traveling on Amtrak. Like we we stopped in Philly first. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You came out here via rail?
+
+[5:24] From Philly, yeah. Oh, from Philly. Yeah. Yeah. No, that would be Wow.
+
+[5:29] That would we're not self-punishers like that. That well, not about that. Yeah. Right. I mean, not about that.
+
+[5:35] We'll get into the we'll get into the recipe. Look, look, for those of you that don't, first of all, you should take a look at the book. You can go in their Kickstarter, you can look at it, see some of what you get. But I have to say it is like consider I can't believe you guys like did this without any sort of uh publisher. The only other person I know who did that who put out well, it's not sure what like the Alinea people did it.
+
+[5:53] They forced, I think, the entire restaurant to do it though. Oh wow. Right. Or, you know, the old bully, uh like the the what's the Nate Mirvald uh Nathan Miravold people, the modernist cuisine. Oh, right, yeah.
+
+[6:04] Right. But it helps to be a billionaire. Yeah, which which we are notably not. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[6:09] Uh, but so anyway, you know, Katie Parla, she did her own most recent book. Uh, but of course, she's also done like a billion books. Right. You know what I mean? So it's like like hardcore to have your first book be self-published.
+
+[6:23] Right. I guess in that sense, we are self-punishers. That's a huge punishment. Did all the own photography anyway? For those of you that are listening live on the air, you can call in your questions to 917-410-1507.
+
+[6:34] That's 917-410-1507. But they have to be a member of the Patreon. Quinn, you tell them uh why they might want to do this, uh, become a Patreon member. Uh yeah, they can go to Patreon.com slash cooking issues. They get access to the community uh Discord where there's lots of great uh discussions.
+
+[6:57] They get codes like uh the codes for Kitchen Arts and Letters for books we have uh related to gifts, and they get uh prioritized questions, uh listening live and listening uh early to the recordings. Nice. All right. So uh this is a portion of the show where we just kind of shoot the breeze for a couple of minutes. We'll try to keep it we got a lot to get to, so we'll try to keep it relatively brief.
+
+[7:25] And I I might actually answer one of the listening questions, uh listeners' questions during this. So uh what do we got for the what do we got from the week in review? Let's start in California. What what is what does Southern California have for the weekend review? Uh Stas took me to this really, really awesome hand roll spot um from the guys that own joint seafood, and they do dry aged fish only.
+
+[7:49] Um the best hand rolls that I've ever had. Okay. Yeah. I've had people who've given me small pieces of the dry aged fish, but I've never done what I need to do, which is same person, same fish, give me the one dry aged, give me the other one not dry aged, and let me just let me just taste that so I can see w what's actually happening. You know what I mean?
+
+[8:14] Like uh like I I get that it's very au current. I just haven't done the tasting myself so that I can understand. And plenty of people I know, if John, you know, was here, he would be like, it's delicious, but I get it. But like, you know, back in the day when you know I was at the FCI, if someone says something, I'd be like, We gotta test that. And I mean I'm spending other people's money.
+
+[8:36] It's very easy to test things when you're spending other people's money. But you said it was very good hand roll. Yeah, very good. I mean, and I also had uh in when I was in Japan last, like one of the omakashas we did was also featured a ton of dry age. I feel like I'm seeing more of it.
+
+[8:50] And I don't know, for me, I like you said, without A B it's hard to tell, right? But every time to tell it. Yeah, it I don't know if it's placebo or what like yeah. How long dry aged in Japan? I mean, in Japan they've always just had their fish stay for the exact length of time that they wanted to to get the exact result that they did.
+
+[9:09] I mean, it's nothing new over there unless it's one of the extended dry ages, right? It was extended, yeah. No, it he like it made a point to kind of talk about it that way. But again, it was I I I I don't I don't know the specifics, but um anyway, this guy, yeah, uh Li Wei Liao, I don't know if I'm saying that right. He's the owner of joint seafood.
+
+[9:29] Um yeah, he's kind of known for it and it's very, very good. Great. Awesome. And uh Stas, you have anything to add to that? Did you also enjoy the hand rolls or you're like not so much?
+
+[9:43] I took Jack. I've been going there for a while and I'm like I know it's out of the way, but it's really, really, really good. Well, I appreciate this is the rare thing that you actually enjoy. I would take you, but we have no time. Yeah, yeah, we gotta we got a lot of stuff that we do.
+
+[10:00] We gotta go to Disney World. Apparently we're going to Disneyland, excuse me. Nice in Anaheim. And we are going to taste every cocktail that they serve at Disneyland. Which I don't know how many they are or you know, whether I'm gonna have to have insulin shots afterwards.
+
+[10:17] Yeah, that that sounds very sweet. It sounds like an instant hangover. Yeah. Although listen, I like I've met some people on their culinary team. I think that they have probably like stuff that's like straight ahead for people who are like sugar booze, sugar boobs.
+
+[10:32] And then they have probably stuff for people who are like, Give me a drink. You know what I mean? Proper drink. Did you know that Doritos were invented in Disneyland? I did not know that.
+
+[10:41] That's an odd fact. Is that true, or is that something I wish was true? No, it's uh it's a real, it's a real thing. Yeah. They were uh yeah, just uh the I don't remember the exact story, but uh yeah, it happened.
+
+[10:56] We looked into it, uh, and it checks out, but I don't remember all the facts. But you can look it up. So the Frito Lake Corporation, which I believe manufactures Doritos, makes some delicious products. By the way, I also noticed you guys are a fan of potato chips on sandwiches, which are of course good. Excellent.
+
+[11:12] Yeah, and we put Fritos in Chili Crisp. Sounds good. Fritos, I was about to say, Fritos, I think they're the best. I mean, I don't eat them as often as I have Doritos, but I think they're the best. They're weirdly addictive, like just they shouldn't be that good, right?
+
+[11:33] No, yeah, yeah. Yeah, they're so dense, too. Like you see that little you're like, I'm gonna get Fritos. Yeah. And then you grab the bag, and you're like, why is this bag so tiny?
+
+[11:41] But then you end up being okay. Yeah, for the most part. Yeah, definitely. And like top it with uh anything you want, like just open a small bag and put anything you want in there. And unless they've changed, the Frito people aren't like, you know what?
+
+[11:55] You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna put the Dorito dust on this. I'm gonna cool ranch this sucker. No, they change the shape if they flavor it. Oh, they flavor them though?
+
+[12:03] There's a barbecue, like a twisted. Oh, yeah, I've seen those uh little Fritos. I don't know, that's not for me. They're fake. They're not for me.
+
+[12:11] It's uh it's not a real Frito. It's the one thing I thought I it's the one thing where I thought they were like, you know what? We don't need to go freaking skew taster on this. We came up with this thing, it's the Frito. You do something to me.
+
+[12:24] Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you do your Frito Pie. We're done. You know what I mean? What do you do?
+
+[12:28] Wait, okay, so Disneyland and then cocktails. And then what else are we doing? I don't know. Stas has us doing a million things. We're doing a we're doing a potluck dinner, potluck lunch that is Vincent Price theme.
+
+[12:40] So Vincent Price was uh, you know, actor, right? Famously the, you know, for younger folks, the voice that laughing at the end of Thriller, because I think people still listen to Thriller, right? And even though that's from the 80s. By the way, that was the first album that I remember. Every living human being had a copy.
+
+[12:55] Like I had a copy. My parents had a copy, all my friends had a copy. Everyone owned Thriller. Everyone had thriller. You know what I mean?
+
+[13:03] Right. I mean, people owned albums. Hell of them. Yeah. I had it on vinyl and C D.
+
+[13:09] And I would record some of it to tape so that you could listen to it on your tape devices. You know what I mean? Yeah. I missed the cassette tape. Not because the sound.
+
+[13:17] It sounds like crap. But like the kind of DIY-ness of like a mixtape. I don't think that happens anymore. Oh, yeah. Yeah, mixtapes, right?
+
+[13:25] Yeah. Yeah, you get a little bit of that crappy DJ, like saying something at the beginning and trailing off at the end because you're not fast enough and you're not smart enough to sit there and like try to, you know what I mean? And you're not gonna bounce dub. People are like, oh, I'll just trim off the ends. No, dude.
+
+[13:39] That's not how it works. That's not how stare the stereo the home stereo does not work like that. Yeah, real nerds would sit right next to the decks, although I did have a twin deck, a dubbing deck, which was choice. Yeah. Choice.
+
+[13:52] Choice. Anyway, but you sit there and it's like you boo. You always miss the first couple of seconds of the song. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[13:58] I was fortunate enough to uh only have to do that for a couple years before burning CD is uh uh became a thing. Yeah, you know what? The kids these days, I know some they're nostalgic for CDs now. Like, it's not vinyl people. See, see the hegemony of CDs was like a 12-year period.
+
+[14:18] Like, who cares? You know what I mean? It's like vinyl was around like first in its acetate form and then in vinyl form for a long time. You know what I mean? Has meaning.
+
+[14:28] CDs were always a bridge. It's like VHS, and they failed down. Records fail okay, you know, but CDs, man, when a CD fails, your toast is yeah, ridiculous. All right. Quinn, what do you got for us, man?
+
+[14:49] I actually got something that ties right into a uh question for our guests. Okay. So uh I've been making some facach style bread uh two weeks ago, turned out really good. I've been experimenting with alternate uh oils in the dough and on the dough. So I made like uh flavored massala oil uh two weeks ago.
+
+[15:18] And this week was a bit of a bust. The dough turned out well, but I flavored the oil with this obscure essential oil I had. So I just didn't know. Yo, dude. Essential oils in your regular cooking oil?
+
+[15:39] What was the essential oil? What was it? Uh have you heard of divan? Lavender. Oh, really?
+
+[15:47] Lavender. Oh my god. No, divanna. Divanna. That's not familiar.
+
+[15:52] Lavender. Nastasi's making a joke of my I've my son Dax broke a lavender oil vial at a target once. And to this day, he can't stand any lavender. Like you get lavender near him, and he's like, uh, and it's not because his grandma uses it in in the bathroom, because she does not. That's my mom.
+
+[16:09] I know she doesn't. You know what I mean? But it's like, we're not a smell soap house. We didn't grow up with smelly soaps. Did you guys grow up with smelly soaps?
+
+[16:17] No, it was like hyperaller genic stuff. Like Dr. Whatever cheapest soap was for me. Yeah. You know, here's it.
+
+[16:27] For the ki k kitchen folks, right? When people have overly perfumed soap on them and they're getting next to you when you're cooking, you're like, God, get away. It messes with you, yeah. Right? Especially yeah, front of house people that uh really lay it on.
+
+[16:42] You're like, I can't concentrate on what I'm tasting. You know what I mean? No, it totally changes how your mouth tastes. Yeah, yeah. We definitely had to tell a couple of our servers, like, you gotta ease up.
+
+[16:53] Yeah, you just can't smell like that. Yeah, but then you also it's hard to tell people that. You're not saying that they smell bad. You're like, you just can't be you so like it's a fine line. Yeah, Nastasi and I used to occasionally Mandy Aftel, the perfumer Bay Area, uh, yeah, she was like, hey, what about the I was like, I don't ever put on purpose.
+
+[17:16] If I smell it's bad. Right. Something bad has happened. You know what I mean? Yes.
+
+[17:21] Yeah. Anyway. Uh how do we get on that? Oh, essential oil. Essential oil.
+
+[17:26] So what is divana smell like? What is divana? Uh it's it's a it's like a shrub from India. Okay. So here's what happened.
+
+[17:37] Okay. Darcy L'O'Neal, like two years ago, you know, started releasing videos about his soda syrups, and one of the procedures is yeah, you take like a citrus oil and you suspend it in ethanol, and then you use that essence to flavor syrup. But when I went to go buy essential oils, I'm like, if I can get regular spices or herbs or citrus, I'm just gonna use those ingredients. Although that's a mistake right there, because the oils don't taste like the actual ingredients. Essential oils don't taste like the ingredients because they're one component of it.
+
+[18:24] So just putting that out there. Okay, so you're just you're well, they're a handful. Well, it depends. Anyway, go ahead. So, you know, what I was more interested in, if I was gonna buy essential oils, I might as well get, you know, you know, sources that you literally don't see as their like primary ingredient out in the world normally.
+
+[18:51] So I got a bunch of weird ones. But then why would you dump it into bread without knowing what it tastes like? Like in other words, like why wouldn't you take your essence oil, like like put it in a little bit of liquid and be like, oh, guess what? I hate this. Right.
+
+[19:06] But it it smelled really good. Okay is the problem. Yeah, does something smell good or taste real bad? It smelled really good. Yeah.
+
+[19:14] All right. Was it poisonously bitter? Was that what happened? But it was just like had this weird floral aftertaste that I didn't smell when I was smelling it, working with it. No, taste it.
+
+[19:27] Taste it before you dump it into your focaccia. I'm gonna say this too, and this is an incredibly unpopular opinion with everyone in the world. Focaccia is fine. It's fine. It's good.
+
+[19:41] It's not a bad product. It takes skill. I don't care about it. You know what I mean? Like there's uh such a world of facaccia now though.
+
+[19:51] Uh yeah. Yeah. Um so what was uh with the bread with your focaccia? It was uh the flavor that you didn't like. Okay.
+
+[20:03] Uh oh the well, it's we're just like floral and weird. Yeah, so I had a question just related. Maybe think about your uh Xiaobing recipe. Uh-huh. In that recipe, you very specifically call for a solid fat for lining the trees.
+
+[20:25] Why is that? Oh, uh it's just it I know you guys are fans of Crisco on the show. Crisco. But it just changes the it just it it acts like uh almost like a like a glue to the pan while it's solid. And so, you know, we are just fussing around with like trying to get the the dough to the corners and it slides back.
+
+[20:52] Have you tried it with Detroit Pizza? Uh no. I have not uh actually a regular bought me Detroit pizza pans, and I just have not. Because one of the big pains in the butt with the Detroit pizza is they're like it's gonna snap back, you gotta come right a bunch of times. Yeah.
+
+[21:10] But no, it's uh it it it's uh it was a revelation. I don't I think I saw it on like uh a YouTube video of like someone's Nona like uh rubbing a pan with Crisco and it was like okay. It's worth a shot. Pasta grannies or something. Yeah.
+
+[21:29] Something like that. I know you do a cold you do a cold fur ferment, but are you are you forming it cold? I don't remember. Um in the book, I believe uh y it's like there's this like there's a series of folds like before it goes into the into the into refrigeration and then uh one more, one or two more uh after in refrigeration and then you just dump it out onto the pan. All right, but it's still it's still not it's not so warm that you're melting out your salad fat.
+
+[22:03] No, you're not. Yeah, definitely not. So it's still performing its glue like function. Yes. Yeah.
+
+[22:09] Um it it was yeah, it was uh really uh it changed. It was like it w changed uh my mood a lot. Like uh around making the bread. That's oh this is easy. This is great.
+
+[22:25] We can that's the most someone can say. I think we have a caller. Caller, you're on the air. Hi. Uh my name is Thomas, first time l or long time listener, first time caller.
+
+[22:35] Nice. I think I'm the the the middle of the Venn diagram between line dance and cooking issues. Nice. So um super excited for this. Um but I had a question uh on the topic of other baked goods.
+
+[22:48] But uh when uh I remember going to Eli's with the line dance uh or at the time that's them vegan banana cake, um, which was always blew me away, particularly because it's vegan. Um I was wondering if uh the y'all could talk on kind of the inspiration on that and how do you get um with a vegan baked good like that, how do you get it so rich and moist and soft? And before you answer, I'll say for those who haven't purchased a book yet, recipe for banana cake in the book. If I don't know if it's exactly the same. I know you rechange a lot of stuff from home, but go ahead.
+
+[23:21] Um yeah, hey Thomas. Thanks for calling. Um yeah, so the recipe is in the book, and um so in uh Singapore and generally in um Southeast Asia, you have uh banana cake that is really treated like a cake, unlike banana bread here, which is also like not a bread, but um there's just like something that is more of it's more like meant to be fluffy, and um you get that like sweet banana aroma in there. It's just really moist and beautiful and um usually it does use eggs. Um but thankfully uh bananas do a great job at binding on their own.
+
+[24:06] But the secret is to um let them get so ripe, just so ripe that they almost taste like they're turning alcoholic. Um and that's really how we get that like extra um sort of um over-the-top like heady note in there. Um and we also use um some coconut in there, which helps round out the flavor and yeah, um, it's just a really yeah, it's one of my favorite things. And uh I'm not a sweets person, but this one is just like something that uh I've really been uh working on for a while. Uh I hope you have fun making it.
+
+[24:48] Yeah, I'm uh I'm excited to uh have it with uh some but banana just no for my spin doll as well. That'll be a good guy. Bananas on bananas. So by the way, the current banana Houstino, we we we used to cheat, we used to use a rum that added sugar, even though they said they didn't. And then we cheated by adding a little bit of uh either brown sugar or maple syrup.
+
+[25:10] And now what we do is we we clarify extra, we clarify banana, just banana, along with so we make a standard banana stino, then we clarify banana and then boil that down to reduce it to make like uh what we call banana zhuzh, and it also gives a little bit of that cooked brown flavor to it. So that's what we do now. Nice FYI. Uh yeah, we stopped in the bar a couple times. Oh, nice in the last week.
+
+[25:34] I hope you had a good time. Excellent. I was not there, so I hope you had a good time. It was you probably better time than if I had been there. I you know what?
+
+[25:41] I'm I'm hardly uh I'm hardly ever there. Actually, I'm not supposed to be there. Anyway, that that's that's from beyond. Um thanks for calling in. Do you get your uh you get your covered smothered?
+
+[25:51] Love it. Uh I have uh oh, the one thing the one thing I'll do from this this week, uh just because it also answers a question. Nibble wanted to know the make and model of my new hood. I got a new hood. I got rid of my commercial oven at home because you know, my wife's like, I'm an architect.
+
+[26:05] You can't have this illegal oven here. It's bad for my business. You know what I mean? And so I got a regular thing. And then my old hood wasn't real hood.
+
+[26:12] By the way, nothing's a hood in terms it's a residential hood, which it doesn't have the same thing. We don't need ancients. It's a residential hood, it's not a real hood. We're not putting black pipe up to the freaking roof, all right? All right.
+
+[26:22] But I got this crazy hood and I didn't know whether I was gonna like it or not. The company is a little bit of a pain in the butt to deal with. They're out of Washington. Oh. It's a ridiculous hood.
+
+[26:31] It is a ridiculous spend. I love it. Nice. I got an 1800 CFM, 1800, which is a lot for a home. 60, 60-inch hood, right?
+
+[26:44] So it's uh like it's over my I have a small range now, it's only 30 inches wide, right? It's like a home range. Yeah, but then I got all the rest of my hot side next to it. So I got my induction, I got my undercounter oven, I got my crepe maker, all my hot side over there, right? So it's 60 inches, it's meant for people who grill and it's kind of indoor-outdoor.
+
+[27:04] Okay. But here's why you wanted, first of all, it's two eight-inch ducts, which is a pain. I had to like custom build, I had to become a tin knocker and like custom build my own duckwork because who has the money to hire someone to come build custom ductwork to make it like fit into the top four inches of your kitchen window, which is what I had to do. Right. Anyways, the reason to go big, you need some makeup air, right?
+
+[27:25] So we're gonna need to open windows, but even in the lowest mode, it's got a nice light in it too, which I appreciate. Decent color temperature, nice. Excellent. You know, you know what? People, you can need a nice light when you're why not have nice light when you're cooking.
+
+[27:40] You know, it it's important. It's always important to have a nice light. Yeah, yeah. The appropriate light. This sucker, first of all, the two sides of it are independent, so I can turn on one side or the other.
+
+[27:51] I don't have to have the whole hood going all the time. But even in the lowest mode, it extracts more than any other home range uh hood ever. And quiet. What? Quiet.
+
+[28:06] Because it's meant to extract 1800 CFM. So if you turn it down to like 400, it's like, am I even on? You know what I mean? Is this even working? And he and for a home, it still has the grease things in it.
+
+[28:17] Right. So you can pull those out and throw them in the in the dishwasher. The one that I had, because Nibble wanted to know the exact brand, is the 60-inch 1800 CFM under cabinet rangehood by Victory in their Verona line. It is ridiculously expensive. It took me a long time to install too, because I couldn't afford to have someone.
+
+[28:34] Get it installed. Yeah. You know how it is. Yeah. Yeah, you have to do things yourself.
+
+[28:38] Some like most of the time. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. By the way, if you're gonna work with ducks, wear gloves.
+
+[28:45] Okay. Wear gloves. You're gonna get cut. You're gonna get cut real bad. It's not like raw edge, like sheet metal.
+
+[28:52] You're gonna cut yourself real bad. That's 90% of the time that I cut myself. It's like I don't cut myself with knives. Yeah. It's just raw edges on like convection ovens or something.
+
+[29:04] Yeah, because you understand how a knife works. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like it's like these things that you don't do, like you're like, I'm just gonna pick up this piece of sheet metal and move it from here to there. It's not gonna be a problem.
+
+[29:11] You're like, ah Yeah. Now we need stitches. Yeah. Yeah. So like wear gloves and uh the other thing is seal every seam.
+
+[29:22] So if you buy those little 90 degree elbows that you can twist around, you have to tape seal every single seam. It's kind of like, you know how when you were a kid, I don't know about you guys, but when I was a kid, 90% of the heat leaves through your head. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. You gotta wear a hat, you know?
+
+[29:38] It's like that with duckwood. They're like, they're like 200% of the air that you push is lost through the seams. You know what I mean? Like to make the stuff up so they put the fear of God into you that you have to seal every seam. Okay.
+
+[29:47] Anyway, so that's all I got for the week. I don't have time to do any, do anything else. Let's talk about let's talk about the book. Okay. So uh uh short history, see if I get get this right.
+
+[29:55] You started, well, one won't go all the way back because we don't have time, we only have half hour, but. But in when you moved to the Bay Area, right? Yeah, you uh first did uh a pop-up called SM Vegan. Yes. And you claim that you did not realize that this was SM when you started.
+
+[30:14] This is clearly a lot. No, it's yeah, it's uh rage bait. I mean it's like it uh because people would come up to us and be like, you know what that means, right? No. Can you tell us?
+
+[30:25] Exactly. Yeah. Um no, that was really funny. We um really suck at coming up with names. So those were just our initials.
+
+[30:33] Yeah, like uh CY's middle name, um, my first name, uh, and then vegan is like, yes, it's it's a very descriptive. It's not uh but yeah, we started doing that um while working at our our kitchen jobs. Um and uh yeah, the first pop-up was uh a cooler, a four-foot folding plastic table and uh toaster oven. And uh we sold like four sandwiches at a bar. And uh then we just kind of kept doing it because like we've we were uh we made we sold four sandwiches, but that was like wow, we made money from food that we made.
+
+[31:16] Uh and it's not like you know, if we're gonna get underpaid, we may as well underpay ourselves instead of um instead of getting underpaid by a chef, like a a restaurant or something. Now, sandwiches, if there's a sandwich chapter in the book, uh, sandwiches have numbers. Did you start the numbering there or did you restart the numbering at Lion's Dance Cafe? We so those are just uh uh numbers of shopping sandwiches specifically. Yeah.
+
+[31:43] So and we started just because we were yeah, doing a pop-up, we were always just like changing the the fillings, and then when we specifically landed on making that bread, it's because I I like busted my hand. We were gonna make we used to make like buns for all of our sandwiches. Um I busted my hand and I was like, I well, I can't shape bread right now, so I'm gonna just a slab of dough and then cut it. Uh so we started with that. My nickname in high school.
+
+[32:16] Slab of hell, yeah. Uh and then uh and then yeah, just like people really liked it. Uh they started off as like a quarter of a of a half sheet tray. They were like enormous needlessly enormous. Yeah.
+
+[32:31] Um, but yeah, it was uh yeah, people loved it. So we could just kind of kept rolling with it. That was like 2018 or 2019 or something, and then from there we just kind of started doing uh more regular pop-ups, like kind of a a Tuesday uh residency kind of thing at uh at a dive bar in uh in Oakland called Eel Eel Eli is Mile High Club. Um that was life-changing because it was our first time really popping up somewhere that had a proper kitchen. Yeah, the kitchen kitchens are nice to cook out of, not like a tent with like butane burners and stuff.
+
+[33:11] Although, like, what's the difference between doing a long-term pop-up where you can kind of feel at home? Whereas I always hate like walking to someone's kids and go, can I use this? Can I use this? Oh yeah. Well, it's just a bunch of like um what's it uh family friendly friendly word?
+
+[33:26] Uh I don't know, like a bunch of scumbags. They'll they'll they'll own that moniker for sure. Uh it's uh Eli's is uh their slogan is a a garbage place for losers. Um and uh so they just and we knew the crew there, we knew the owners and everything. They're they're just like really welcoming, very nice.
+
+[33:49] Uh and they're just like, yeah, just use whatever, I don't care. You ever go to Rochester? No. No. If you go to Rochester, well, that's no point because I've never seen a vegan garbage plate.
+
+[33:59] But if you're dealing with the people who are garbage people, right? Make a garbage plate, a vegan garbage plate could be interesting, I think. I think so. I mean, there's enough vegan garbage that you could put it on a plate. Well, but you know, you know, the garbage plate is like all it's basically all of the stuff like mac salad, like all and then like cut up either hamburgers or hot dogs and like you know, chili and all this stuff.
+
+[34:22] It's good though. It feels yeah, I think it's like it's like the Long Island iced tea of drunk food of foods. Yeah, yeah. Nice. I could see, especially like, you know, but go back to the book for one second, but we'll get back to it.
+
+[34:35] Um like a garbage plate, although usually viciously underseasoned. Don't tell Rochester, viciously underseasoned. Do they have salt on the table though? I mean, maybe. I don't remember.
+
+[34:47] All I know is it's like if you're gonna make a chili kind of meat sauce, really. You gotta flavor that thing. You know what I mean? Yeah. Anyway, uh lot of flavor.
+
+[34:57] Like reading these recipes, even though like this is not the way that I usually cook. Super layered flavors makes you want to eat these things, and then you're like, oh, maybe I want to actually cook these things. Like some of the some of the stuff's easy, not difficult, but some of the stuff you're like, listen, this is the way it does. It takes this many steps, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know what I mean?
+
+[35:14] But yeah, very it really is an enticing, um, enticing book. Makes you want to eat the food real bad. Nice. You know what I mean? Thank you.
+
+[35:25] Um talking about garbage plate vegan SN. Oh, yeah. By the way, in case you guys don't believe me when I say that they clearly called it S and M vegan purpose. There is a recipe in this book called, and I'm this is an acronym, so I can say it on the Family Friendly show, ass cookies. So I mean, maybe it's ASS, but it's ass.
+
+[35:46] It's yeah, it's almond sesame shallot. Yes. Um, and um we actually um put that up on Instagram, like sh what should we call it? And people voted. Democracy at work.
+
+[35:57] Yeah, yeah, yeah. So clearly it's not like a one-off. Like the the the double the double. I mean, we are, you know, Bay Area, you kind of have to have like a sense of humor about about that stuff, about everything. So talk to me about those cookies for one second, because uh, you know, you're right, in uh Singapore it's often it's it's it's not unusual.
+
+[36:18] Now I have that song going through my head. Uh it's not unusual to have uh like uh that shallot flavor in a dessert and it's a lightly sweet anyway. So it's like almonds, shallots, and sesame in in a dessert thing. So what is that what is that what does that do to it? What does the shallotness bring to it?
+
+[36:34] It's just in the oil, it's not shallots, it's shallot oil, right? Yeah. So what does that bring to it? Right. So um that rings a really nice like caramel-y flavor because it's the oil from frying shallots that we use as just like a crispy addition to everything.
+
+[36:50] Um so you get this um caramelized sweetness in it that most people can't quite pinpoint what it is until you tell them. And yeah, in uh in Diocheo cooking, um you have desserts like uh or um or ni, which is uh a sweet taro paste that initially used lard, and um over time and with like health concerns, um the trend moved to uh using shallot oil instead, and that's kind of where the idea came from, and that makes for a really uh short cookie, too. It's like there's like no uh moisture, like there's no uh water in the cookie, which is so it's like it's kind of the I've thought about like how does it firm up? Is it just the residue like moisture in the in the flour? Uh because like flour is like what 14% water still, something like that?
+
+[37:50] It depends on where you live, yeah. About, yeah. So is the as you bake it, does it kind of like steam itself and so all you and then it like adheres the like the the granules are like yeah, the I think there's some steaming going on because when they come out of the oven, they're like sort of cracked on top of it. Right. They do expand.
+
+[38:15] Yeah. All right. So uh by the way, I will say this also. So then uh because I have so many questions gonna run out of time. Um you do SM Vegan, then you open a brick and mortar lion dance cafe, which you then interestingly closed just because you you're like, we say the impression I get, you tell me, is you're like, we said what we needed to say, we have other things we need to do.
+
+[38:39] I mean, basically, yeah. That's a pretty a good way to put it. Yeah, we're we're moving, yeah. Like we we kind of need to make moves uh right now. And uh it takes a long time to close a restaurant and uh and write a cookbook.
+
+[38:53] So we're uh like yeah, you know, still paying taxes on stuff that we did in like 2024 nightmare for some reason. No, it's nightmare. Um, and then you make this book, which is uh, you know, doing it by yourself, Herculean effort doing all the shooting and whatnot. And you say in the book that this is your party gift to the Bay Area, and you're like, I'm out. Yeah.
+
+[39:14] Because you guys are moving to Singapore. Yes. Which is a place I've never been. Oh, you gotta go. Yeah.
+
+[39:19] I know. I know. I was supposed to go. One of my uh one of my you know favorite uh interns had a a restaurant over there, and I always thought I'd go visit him. He died.
+
+[39:28] Oh no. Yeah. Eng Su Lee, he was a Cantonese speaking uh uh Singapore guy. And he had a a restaurant, a Nasi Lamak restaurant. He bought his own coconut like like farm so that he control the coconuts.
+
+[39:43] You know what I mean? Like he was a hardcore, yeah, he's a hardcore dude. Uh, but I'll never get to taste. He never made it for me when he was here. Well, of course he couldn't get the coconuts he wanted anyway.
+
+[39:52] Like, why would he make it here? He's like, This is trash can. You're a trash can, this is trash can. You know what I mean? He did show me how to cook uh shrimp without them curling, though.
+
+[40:01] Probably some secret secret tricks. You know what I mean? But uh he was an interesting, interesting cat. But I never made it, I always thought I would go visit him there, but I never I never went. But still, you know, everyone says, Yeah, you have to go visit Singapore.
+
+[40:12] You're a moron. That's what they say to me, especially because as a like a person who deals with liquor, like back in the day, like uh so many Americans were going to Singapore to do like uh liquor consults. There was a lot of money, money in it in like the big hotel chains and whatnot. You know what I mean? So you could make a decent amount of cash going over there and just being like American cocktails.
+
+[40:31] Right. You know what I mean? And then coming back. But I feel like I don't know if that is the case anymore because you know, I although I've never been to Singapore, you know, been, you know, China, Hong Kong, you know, so much homegrown like creativity there. I don't think they need to bring Americans anymore for cocktails.
+
+[40:50] You know what I mean? They want, I mean, there's just so many, there's yeah, so many cocktail bars in Singapore, but there's still like uh, I feel like widely influenced by what's going on in New York and London and uh lesser extent, probably San Francisco. I feel like San Francisco hasn't been doing as much as they used to these days. Really? I haven't been back in a while.
+
+[41:15] I mean, you know, I haven't been to Oakland in many years. Oakland's is uh Oakland's doing uh even less, except for uh no, uh actually a couple really uh amazing spots. Uh we're a little biased, but Tallboy, uh really great cocktail bar, high volume. Uh, we actually consulted on their menu uh for uh hot dogs, uh vegan hot dogs. Uh the impossible hot dogs are weirdly spot on.
+
+[41:44] Yeah? Yeah. I haven't had their hot dogs. Their breakfast sausage in a tube is good. Nice.
+
+[41:50] Like uh that's what I use when I'm doing my mom stuffing, but I need to make it uh vegetarian. Uh-huh. I still use butter. By the way, in the book, you're like, we're not gonna talk about the just buy the vegan, but we're not gonna talk about it. We have it, we do it, but next book.
+
+[42:04] It's too much. It's like well, how do you even make vegan butter? What is that? So the process was uh kind of stupid. I mean, it was like you make a cream uh with like a blend of like uh refined coconut oil and um and canola oil or whatever neutral uh cooking oil.
+
+[42:26] Uh I would make like a the vegan yogurt uh and then like blend it with soy milk and uh just basically emulsify the fats together with the the soy milk, the fermented soy milk, uh good amount of salt, and then um and then blend it with an immersion blender until the fat globules like uh actually like stick together. So you get like a you get a fat or a water in fat sort of clumping together, and then you uh it it gives you like buttermilk, which is like really I don't know. It was it was fun to make like uh pickles, I would put it in breads and stuff like um but not c it is culture, but it's not a big thing. It's culture, it's culture, yeah. So it's tart, so you can uh yeah.
+
+[43:17] So and then with enough salt, it starts to you it kind of masks the the beanie flavor, but also we kind of like yeah, we kind of like the flavor flavor of of soybeans. I mean I do too. That's why I like do you like I well you're using uh you're using a direct set like the the tofu recipe you gave here is direct direct set. So but like also like when I m make black tofu, I don't rinse it or so okay. I want it to stay as beanie as possible.
+
+[43:44] Exactly. You know what I mean? Otherwise, why? I could buy it, I could buy one that's been soaked. Yes, exactly.
+
+[43:49] You know what I mean? It should taste like what it's made of. I mean, when you you know get cow's milk, it tastes like cow's milk. Like it's not um like similarly, um coconut ice cream is gonna taste like coconut. You just yeah, yeah.
+
+[44:03] Yeah. You're using these ingredients for a reason. Yes. Uh speaking of uh the soy milk, in your mayonnaise recipes, a lot of acid, high acid on the mayonnaise. You use more vinegar than you would use in like a standard like oil and egg mayonnaise.
+
+[44:18] Is the vinegar necessary for the it to work or just for taste? It's uh uh actually the more more vinegar uh makes it more difficult to process. Uh I it's just what we like. It's just like we know what's tangy miracle whip is more tangy than regular mayonnaise. My dad was a miracle whip guy.
+
+[44:38] Yeah, yeah. I don't hate I don't hate miracle whip. Yeah, you know what I mean? Um but yeah, uh like yeah, it's a to taste thing. Like uh I like I like kind of uh we we like high acid and uh a ton of herbs, like just so many herbs, like herbs as lettuce kind of and the soy milk is the functional emulsifier, yeah.
+
+[44:59] Yeah, it does uh an amazing job, especially if you can get like a fresh um thick soy milk. Well, it will the recipes work with the stuff you buy like it. Yeah, like uh Pacific. As long as it's just as long as there's no stabilizers, because you really want the like there there's something about the curdling process of it where it's like I think it's is it like denaturing the proteins or something, maybe like by adding acid, but if there's stabilizers, it's less likely to have. And plus when there's stabilizers, there's usually less like dissolved solids or whatever.
+
+[45:38] Right. You want high solids, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so like uh different soy milks like Kikoman, there's has one, um, West Soy has one, I think Pacific brand or whatever. As long as it's in the you know, protein, like nine grams of protein per cup is is good. Hodo, which is what we use at the restaurant, is like 11 grams of protein per cup.
+
+[46:02] Um you can make your own. Yeah, or make your own. Although I hate making it, I do. Although I have I I have the Coovings juice juicer now, and like they keep saying that there that you can make like that it's easy to make a good, like thick soy milk with it, but I just haven't done it yet. You know what I mean?
+
+[46:17] Yeah. Yeah, I I made it a couple of times, but I was like, why am I why do this when I could just buy it from a very good purveyor of of uh small soy milk? That's the nostalgia of the hammer lopez thing. If someone else is better at it than you are, then why don't you just pay them to do it? You know what I mean?
+
+[46:36] Especially if it's a pain to do this. It's not like, yeah, someone else is better in a stall in my hood, but I also don't have the money. Yeah, but you could buy the soy milk. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[46:43] Anyway. Uh all right. Oh, one more question. Uh the random one, because uh well, we we got a question. All right, what we got a question from uh the the audience submitted by text.
+
+[46:57] Uh user T D V asked, uh both Dave and LDC crew are very particular about the music played in your spaces. Could you all talk about the how music plays a role for both the kitchen and the dining room? What should we be playing while cooking and eating for the full LDC experience? Oh. LDC stands for Lion Dance Cafe.
+
+[47:24] Yes, that's right. Uh that's a great question. Yeah. Actually, um we don't really like listening to music when we're cooking. Um feels like um kind of being able to to hear um the cooking is like a part of uh what you want to be paying attention to.
+
+[47:46] But then um yeah, in the dining room, we had a pretty uh specific playlist with um really uh high percussion uh lion dance music. Um and also a lot of um a lot of just like punk and hardcore because that's what we like and um a lot of um like it aloudisco old um east and southeast Asian pop. Yeah, just kind of like really a mix of um things that sort of reflect our backgrounds, I think. It was very unfocused. It was very all over the place.
+
+[48:23] I don't really know how it felt for people to be in that environment actually. Um and then you have hardcore come on in the middle of while they're eating, it's like all of a sudden like well it's minor threat, or like well, like what are we? Yeah, like or yeah, minor threat. Uh to keep it like uh sort of not like not like fast core or like uh or thrash or anything, but like you know, early hardcore, like um yeah, like uh uh seven seconds or um gorilla biscuits or uh yeah, bad brains, like where it still feels like uh more attached, more more of uh a descendant of like rock and roll r rather than like violence. Yeah, we uh we would also let the crew kind of um listen to what they wanted.
+
+[49:15] We just had um a growing no playlist, like no Morrissey. Uh-huh. No Morrissey. Oh no. Yeah.
+
+[49:24] That's funny. Uh like who else is on the no playlist? Oh, Kanye made it. Oh, just because of what a dirt baggy is? Yeah.
+
+[49:32] Yeah. Don't need that. You know, like the th the thing is like what about just letting him play it but then just mercilessly like clowning them? Or is that not cool? That's probably less cool than just telling them they can't play it.
+
+[49:43] Yeah we had a Yeah. Uh some sensitive uh demeanors. Yeah. I know people do get sensitive about their music. It's true.
+
+[49:54] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean look I've been there when I was you know when I was a kid I was nice about me. All right.
+
+[49:58] Uh did we answer the question, Quinn. I believe so. Covered and smothered. Nice. So uh before I go on, uh vegan fish sauce, is this brand that you is it good?
+
+[50:13] Twenty what was it called? It's 24 vegan. It's the only one that matters on can I buy it at a regular market here? I haven't had a chance to go shopping since it's depends on how good the I mean they're not very good at outreach, I'll say um but I think you can buy it online. Uh I I know I've seen it online.
+
+[50:37] Um but um it I can't remember what it what it is it's like uh disodium iocyanate and another one. I'm uh D quantylate I think. No, that's the just the flavor and DL alanine or something, when I guess used in conjunction with like MSG, they and other things, like they taste like shrimp, like shrimp shells. Like uh, so it's like very umami. It does have like a slight aroma of of like fermented fish.
+
+[51:11] Uh and it blooms when you heat it like regular fish sauce. Yeah, it really, like you really smell it. Like when you put it into a soup, it's like it carries uh it the flavor really carries like. Yeah, it's really uh really funky, really strong. Uh it's not like guitar pineapple base fish sauces that okay.
+
+[51:30] This tastes like pineapple. Yeah. Or like also like a lot, a lot of the amount a lot of the like umami stuff, I think they taste good, but they are not a substitute for the other things that they're supposed to. Like coconut aminos are good, but they're sweet and like they're not like what I they're not they're they're never what I reach for. You know what I mean?
+
+[51:45] I like them. Yes. But you know, you know what I mean? Like, you know, for sure. And a lot of a lot of the cooking that we do is like kind of realizing that it's like there's valid, there are valid uh replacements for things that just accept that it's not gonna taste like the thing.
+
+[52:03] You're just creating a new, like a new version, a new uh a new dish. Like, I mean, it's just I don't know. If it's good, it's good. Okay, we're gonna have to go fast because we're running out of time. But uh, I'll have to say I really love like the call out on the on the brands that made me feel like like super at home.
+
+[52:20] You're like red bag talking about rice flour, red bag, green bag. And then on Agar, get the telephone, like red bag, green bag. It's like someone's like, I'm going to the market, what I'm doing. Red bag, red bag, red bag. You know what I mean?
+
+[52:29] Like you don't even bother telling them like whether it's glutinous or not because you don't want them to get confused. Yes. We're talking about different there's two different rice flours by the same company, and they have a red bag and they have a green bag. And anyone that's ever sent someone to a market knows you just tell them the color, right? Or no?
+
+[52:44] Exactly. 100%. Totally. Yeah. Love it.
+
+[52:47] I love that whole feeling. It made me feel like, you know, like back when I used to have to do that. You know what I mean? Yeah. We're we're communicators as as chefs.
+
+[52:55] We have to be communicating. A lot of these ingredients are uh new for some people. So we wanted to keep it as easy as possible. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[53:02] Uh well, and so like one of the things I really enjoyed about reading the book is it clearly like, you know, you guys have uh like a repertoire and a like a all the flavors are built. So you start with like kind of the building blocks. You're like, we build all of our flavors on but a lot of the flavors on these oils. So here's how you make these oils. And then you're like, okay, we came up with this technique for dredging for our flies fried stuff.
+
+[53:29] So here's how like the dusting works, here's how the dredges work. So like a lot of the recipes, they build on other recipes in the book. Uh, and it really what I like about it is it shows a mental way of approaching how to uh set up a way of cooking, like a way of life to cook, you know what I mean? Yeah, which is I think uh not I mean, people do do it, but um, especially when people are writing a book about like a subject, as opposed to like this is kind of how we approach it. Like it's rare, it's not I don't get that impression when I'm reading as often as I would like.
+
+[54:05] Yeah. I mean that and that's how we kind of ran the restaurant. It's like, okay, we have this kind of like we have this dish that fills this slot using these ingredients. How do we like make these things taste totally different? Like when we change the menu, like and introduce different produce or something.
+
+[54:23] It was also like an effort to make it easy on our cooks to like think about food in a way, think about cooking dishes that we're coming up with because they know the format. They know like they're familiar with like the base recipes, like we're putting a new dish on the menu, but it's using mala oil, like so you know that. And so like we're just gonna add some things to the mala oil or adjust things here and there, but it's like just going into any new recipe thinking like uh I'm I'm already familiar with this. Yeah, it makes it more intuitive. There's like a whole a whole like pantry uh of staples, basically.
+
+[55:07] And uh, and it's funny because uh customers also tell us this tastes like LDC. Right. Yeah. Well, you say at the beginning, you start with the this the um the fried shallot oil, or if you don't start with it, it's very close to the beginning, and you're like, uh you could use other oil, but it won't taste like what we make. Yeah, you know what I mean?
+
+[55:25] Exactly. And and by the way, I'm one of those lazy weasels. I buy fried shallots like an idiot, even though I know they're not as good and slightly rancid, but you know what I mean? But maybe I won't going forward, you know. The oil is just so uh like when you just saute, like when you cook fresh shallots in shallot oil, you're it's like it's a totally different experience, too.
+
+[55:46] You're like really doubling down on the on the shallot experience on any aromatics or whatever. So not just I mean, you're still gonna have to buy the book, but I was saying, like, so the in the recipe for this, uh you put it in, you put it in the oil cold, right? You bring it up until it starts boiling, then you drop it down and you take it until it's just about to brown. But here's the question I have: why then do you turn the heat up again? Uh it's okay, so you want to get the uh it it it will eventually it'll it'll just kind of sog out if it's if it's not expelling if it's not actively like expelling and violently expelling moisture.
+
+[56:22] So you need it to when you pull the shallots, you need it to be at like a terminal amount of like of uh expression of moisture, I guess. Huh. Uh so if you just let it ride, it gets brown without getting crunchy in the yeah, it just kind of sog out. All right. Yeah.
+
+[56:41] Then there's kind of there's not very many ways to come back from that without without burning them. Yeah. Right. Yeah, like it won't even save them to throw them in a dehydrator for a million years. No, because it's like just it's like kind of candy.
+
+[56:54] I I think it's a temperature thing too. Like they they will burn uh because like the sugars, you're crisping the sugars, really, I think. Like it turns into a a shallot candy, basically. Now you're making me want to feel like I had to do this. Also, you guys are lovers, and we'll taste it uh, you know, right at the end, but uh of the Spanish peanut.
+
+[57:14] Now I've spoken against the Spanish peanut because to me, like a Virginia peanut is God's peanut. But the Spanish peanut does have the advantage of small. So maybe you like it smaller. We're about to taste it in a minute. We're gonna taste the Spanish peanut.
+
+[57:27] Yes. But I'd so like you you give a recipe for frying the peanuts, and then you do uh soy or mung after that. You soak those with flavor. Have you ever soaked the peanuts with flavor before you fry them? And does it not because you don't do it in the book?
+
+[57:41] Yeah, it does. It's just that they're we were going through so many peanuts uh at a at a point that like we just uh the soaking and the storing uh of of like so yeah, of soaking peanuts uh was uh it was cumbersome. So yeah, we were going through like 110 pounds of peanuts a week. That's something that's pain. Yeah.
+
+[58:05] Okay, wait. So okay. So uh back on, by the way, uh way of thinking, just like the you again early in the book you show this because you do your first uh sambal thing, really a cup of sambal a day, huh? Oh yeah, yeah. Easily.
+
+[58:15] Uh is the Fresno chili three ways. And it's basically do the recipe now, do this to get the second kind, now do this to the get the third kind. So it just shows the the kind of uh building. I also appreciate that you guys like red jalapenos. You're like, why do they not get any love?
+
+[58:29] Red jalapenos are so delicious. Yeah. And uh I know that you're Fresno Dow because you're California, meh, meh, meh, meh, meh. You know what I mean? But red jalapeno is so delicious.
+
+[58:37] You know what I mean? Yeah. Anyway. All right. Let's talk we're gonna run out of we're gonna run out of time.
+
+[58:41] Okay. Uh let's talk about nuggets. Pain in the butt. So you do this thing where you you freeze and then thaw the tofu, which is gonna make it very porous so that it absorbs flavors. You then dump a boy the boiling mixture of flavor over it, right?
+
+[58:53] Then you uh you let it sit for a while, then you uh do your wet and dry dredge like like a chicken dredge, and then you freeze it again. Now that second freeze, does it affect the texture or that's just so you can fry it for longer? Uh it affects the temperature or the texture, but also uh it heats the the moisture inside of the nugget to the point but not to the point where it's boiling. So it keeps the uh it keeps the crust uh intact without it like kind of gushing out all of its liquid uh due to boiling or whatever. You say this is a pain in the ass and it reads like a pain in the butt to make uh have you ever tried a flash freezer so you could freeze them very quickly and then and then bulk them?
+
+[59:36] Like if someone handed you an earinox, could you then just like crank these suckers out more? Yes, for sure. Yeah. It would take it from like a long process to pretty short, pretty short process. You can industrialize this process, it sounds like on a conveyor freezer.
+
+[59:49] Oh, yeah. Yeah. And on your uh on your thing with the nuggets, uh in your dredge, you do a wet and a dry. And here's the question I always ask people. First of all, I notice your dry is gluten-free.
+
+[1:00:01] Is that just to make it more inclusive, or is that you actually think it's better gluten-free? Crispier. Okay. Yeah. Second, do you do you add your seasoning to the wet or to the dry?
+
+[1:00:10] You add your seasoning to the dry. And here's why I don't do that, because I throw away so much dry. That's true. Yeah. So, like, but do you think it's better to put it in the dry, you get a better result putting it in the dry than putting it in the wet?
+
+[1:00:20] Uh, I like the the toasting flavor that happens like what like to the spices like on the exterior, but to be fair, I have not tried it in the wet. That was also um like kind of a prep thing so that we could always have just a lot of dry mix on hand. Yeah. All right. Uh damn it.
+
+[1:00:37] Okay. Hey, real quick, we on Thursday, Dave, on Thursday, we have a live podcast at night on Earth. Tickets are still available. 3:30 to 6 p.m. Night on Earth in Los Angeles with Ariel Johnson, Harold McGee, Kevin Johnson, NOMA, and of course you.
+
+[1:00:53] All right. Boz and I will be there. We're recording a QA for the attendees. So make sure to get that this Thursday. All right.
+
+[1:01:00] So they have brought some of their Cadillac of peanuts to taste. We're not gonna have time to taste it on air. They're lime leaf peanuts that's in the book. I'll tell you next week how they taste. And I'm gonna have them taste the uh the toasted pumpkin seed oil that was uh sent to me.
+
+[1:01:12] I didn't get to talk about the carrot cake, which is not anything that an American who eats carrot cake would uh would think about, but it looks like an amazing recipe. I really want to try it. And on the way out, brining corn for the elotes, do you brine corn typically or just when you're gonna grill it? And what does it do other than just increase the moisture level? Does it make the corn taste different?
+
+[1:01:29] You brine it for a long time in salt. Yeah. Uh so yeah, uh it it uh salt water gets into the corn uh below the the husk. When you grill it, then the it steams uh the the kernels uh rather than just like uh kind of charring the outside. It also slows down the charring, uh so like you can really get it fully cooked in the husk.
+
+[1:01:54] Uh grilling the corn in the husk also makes it extremely easy to shuck. Nice. Yeah. All right, CY Chia and Shane Stanbridge with the Lion Dance Cafe Cookbook by the Kitchen Arts and Letters or at fine non-Amazon bookstores near you. Uh thanks so much.
+
+[1:02:08] Good luck on your upcoming move to Singapore. I wish I had made it out to Oakland while you guys are there. Anyway, I appreciate you guys coming on. Cushing issues.
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+[0:11] Hello, and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center, New York City, New Stance Studios. Join as usual with John way in the back. How are you doing, man? Doing great, thanks.
+
+[0:21] Yeah. Yeah? Peachy, good. Great, awesome. Got Joe Hazen rocking the panels behind me.
+
+[0:25] What's up, Joe? Hey, hey, hey. Good, good, good. And uh way over there on the other coast down low. We got Nastasia the Hammer Lopez.
+
+[0:32] How you doing? I'm good. Good. Yeah, yeah. Got Jackie Molecules also in Los Angeles.
+
+[0:38] What's up? Yo. Saw both of those fools because I just got back yesterday. Yesterday? Jesus.
+
+[0:43] Yesterday? Yesterday. From California. Yesterday. And uh then in uh holding down the upper left off the coast, we have Quinn on the island of Vancouver.
+
+[0:51] How you doing? I'm good. Great. And uh, like I say, we have a full house today. I have two, count them, two chefs here from well, the Momofuku Empire.
+
+[1:05] But that's that's kind of what joins them, but we're we're gonna discuss that separately and not even necessarily talk that much about the moms. Maybe we will. I don't know. We'll see what you guys want. We have uh starting from the back of the room, Dennis No, who also owns DeAndi.
+
+[1:21] You've been on this show before. I have, yes. Twice? I think so, yeah. Once just for your voice.
+
+[1:27] Yes. You're just in the give me some voice. This is the reason why I'm here, Dave. I'm trying to get a second job, and I think voice over acting is is somewhere in the future. So Nastasia, Nastasia, Dennis versus Phil Bravo.
+
+[1:39] Give me your best radio, Dennis, and then Nastasia, make make a decision here. Well, you gotta give me something to say. What do you want me to say? I mean, like, you know, it's it's like my friend Ted, the bass player for uh uh shooter Jennings says, you know, like you could sing the phone book, you can read the phone book, it doesn't matter. Like, like people, like, look, Snoop Dogg, James uh James Will Jones, say whatever in the hell they want.
+
+[1:59] It does not matter. Well, you know, um, how about this? Welcome to Cooking Issues with Dave Arnold. Wow, see? What do you think?
+
+[2:06] What do you think, Stas? What do you what do you what do you got for me? I still just uh fell bravo. Jesus. Well, harsh.
+
+[2:13] I you know, I I think there's an element here that I have to practice for sure. Um, you know, so you also gotta do more of like uh like you know, like Phil Bravo, like like a little more, like, you know, like a little more Don Pardo kind of a sitch, you know. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's definitely an acting component to this that I've never explored. So the thing is if you combine like the cheese with like the low rumble, yeah.
+
+[2:38] That's what like people can't. That's what the average person can't do. They can't do cheese plus rumble. They can do like, they can gravel out their voice or they can do cheese, but they can't cheese and rumble. See, these are good notes.
+
+[2:49] This is why I'm here. Yeah, yeah. And uh I see uh uh uh diligently thinking about these problems here. We have Paul Carmichael, currently from uh Kabawa, but uh from everywhere, really. Is that how you pronounce it?
+
+[3:01] Kabawa? Yeah, Kabawa. I'll tell you what, hard place to get a reservation. It's tiny, that's why. You got two places.
+
+[3:08] All I know is I'm walking, I'm just walking past it one day, literally looking for a restaurant to eat that night. And Paul's like, Arnold, what the hell? I'm like, I need a place to eat. And he hooked me up. And I have to say, worth the hype.
+
+[3:22] Great food. I think, like, honestly, like, just like refreshingly delicious. You know what I mean? Well, thanks, Arnold. And you're you're a tough cookie.
+
+[3:31] I've known you for years. You'll you'll call it like you see it. I'm a tough bastard. Like the thing is, if I didn't love it, I would just say it was fine. But it was not fine.
+
+[3:39] It was really, really good. Like, like some of the best food I've had out in a long time. And also, confusing. I had to look crap up. Like blaff.
+
+[3:50] Blaf. And dog sauce. Yeah. Which I guess is actually from French. It's not they don't call it dog sauce, right?
+
+[3:56] They call it like sauce. Yeah. Oh, how do you pronounce dog down there? How you say chien? Yeah, same.
+
+[4:01] Cane? Yeah. With it, uh with a heart? Oh, nice. All right.
+
+[4:04] And uh, yeah, there's a bunch of stuff. We'll go through. Also, I noticed on your menu, or maybe it was something you wrote. We'll get to it later. But you guys get sour sop that's good in New York.
+
+[4:14] How the hell do you get good sour sop in New York? I gotta connect. First of all, like you're from Barbados, right? Original or all around, but like Barbados. Yeah.
+
+[4:21] All right. Do they call it sour sap there? They call it Guanabana, what do they call it? No, we call it sour sap. Call it sour sap.
+
+[4:26] Guanabona is the uh Spanish version. So like Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic. Show me with your hands so only the Patreon people can see on the video how big are the ones you're getting. So decent. Decent.
+
+[4:38] Decent. Like not huge. Yeah, like a fool. Yeah, okay. Oh, maybe you're helping them out.
+
+[4:42] Yeah. Football. Football size. Yeah. Maybe a little bit smaller.
+
+[4:45] What's the secret in the United States in New York City of getting a decent sour sap slash. First of all, for all you out there who have never had a good one, I'm so sorry. Yeah. And also, like if you've had it, if you've had it in the United States, but you've never had it where they grow, I'm so sorry. Like, you know what I mean?
+
+[5:06] Like, because you don't know how to compare it. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's very true. Yeah. It's like one of those things like custard apple or something, you know, where it's uh it's a fruit, you don't see around a lot.
+
+[5:16] And then when you get it, you're just like, man, this is pretty special. Yeah, yeah. Here's another thing that's not so good. No offense. I love all those people who make that stuff.
+
+[5:23] The puree is fine. It's sour sop? Yeah, it's fine. It's not at least the ones I get. Oh, like you shit in the supermarket.
+
+[5:32] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's yeah, no. That so if you taste that and you think you've had sour sap. Nah. No.
+
+[5:37] It's like night and day. I'll tell you something else. After I've clarified it, I don't like it as much. Same with same with lychee. When I clarify lychee, I don't like it as much.
+
+[5:48] Gets sweaty. A lot of these like like hot weather like fruits, not passion fruit. Passion fruit. That clarifies like a dream. But to me, like lychee, I think sour sap didn't get sweaty.
+
+[6:00] I just I was like, ah, it's not as special as it used to be. Like oranges. When you clarify an orange, it's like, uh. Yeah, it loses like uh its soul. Yeah.
+
+[6:08] So are you gonna tell us where you get it, or is it a freaking secret? Oh, this is this one I can't blow my guys' spot up. I can't run out of source. It's not like uh down where I live in the Lower East Side of New York City, there's like an avocado joint, just sells avocados. Yeah, they're dope.
+
+[6:24] Yeah. Shout out to Sonny. Yeah, but wait, which one? Because there's two actually, right? You used it A A A, the one that's on uh Christine.
+
+[6:32] Christie, yeah, Christy. If the he doesn't know you, doesn't want to talk to you. Oh yeah, it took me, it took me a year for him to like acknowledge my existence. Yeah, I walked in there once just off the street. I was like, Do you have like, do you like have different like varieties?
+
+[6:45] Is it like has bags like we avocados get out? I was like, all right. You know what I mean? Easy with you was 72 or 36. I'm like, ugh.
+
+[6:53] Yeah, yeah. But uh avocados, man. I live in the avocado, cheap avocado district of New York, right? So there's a couple. There's like it used to be like up near Port Authority.
+
+[7:03] There was a couple of Styles farmers markets and a bunch of not there were not real farmers' markets. You know what I mean? Styles markets where they were all buying the cheapest stuff, and you could always one of the two, oh Stas used to shop there. You used to live in that neighborhood, right? You went to Styles uh Styles.
+
+[7:15] Yeah. And there's always cheap produce there. You had to get it right before it went off, right? Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[7:23] But cheap as hell. You know what I mean? And then down near where I live, Essex Market, there's a big competition for selling avocados to the um Dominican and Puerto Rican community down where I live, and so avocados. Cheap. And you can always find someone who has them soft.
+
+[7:37] Yes. Some morons out over there buying baseballs. When I see people picking those baseballs, I was like, either you're the most patient person on earth or an idiot. I don't know which one it is. You know what I mean?
+
+[7:47] And all you gotta do is a little bit extra work just to like it's a it's like a couple blocks away. Yeah. Yeah. Let me ask you this. Who here, when they're shopping for home, actually has the foresight to buy the avocados for three days from now.
+
+[8:03] In in my life? No. Yeah, me either. No, not at all. I mean, I barely cook at home, so yeah, but if you if you needed avocados, you need them like today.
+
+[8:11] You need today's avocado. Yeah, you don't want you don't want Friday's avocado. Who wants that? Unless you're one of those. No, but here we have so many of them that you just like have a bunch for two weeks, you know.
+
+[8:23] You can plan ahead. Nice. Oh, yeah. By the way, speaking of that song, uh, anyone who cuts out the puties is a bad person. You can't cut out the putties at the end.
+
+[8:37] You know what I mean? If you cut out the puties. Even at a bar, if you if you have the the stones at this point of to play like an old school, like super overplayed, classic, awesome song. Play the PewDiePie's or go home. You know what I mean?
+
+[8:52] Anyway, uh, that's just my feeling. You you can disagree with it. But uh yeah, Stas, yeah, you come from the land of avocados, but do you guys eat so many avocados out there that you just always have them around no matter what, and if they go bad, you just throw them in the garden and hope they plant a tree or what? Yeah, so many go bad. That's the problem.
+
+[9:09] You can't eat them fast enough. How much is an avocado? Not at what's what's your fancy bouge market called? Erwan. Yeah.
+
+[9:17] Yeah. So uh how much is uh an not at erwan. If you go to a normal human place, how much is an avocado cost? I don't know because there's so many trees that we don't have to buy them. What you s now it is scrumping only apples, or can you scrump an avocado?
+
+[9:38] It's like stealing fruit, or that it's like fruit that falls that you steal it, scrumping it up. But Stas also does it with flowers. She let me ask you a real question. Be real. At Nastasia's house, I saw a bunch of uh lilacs.
+
+[9:52] Did you actually buy them? She said I she said I bought them because she didn't want to talk about it with me. I bought that. All right. No, I definitely shots fired.
+
+[10:00] Yeah, yeah. I'm not saying, I'm just asking. Not saying, asking. Just questions. Yeah, just questions, man.
+
+[10:06] You're allowed to ask questions. All right. So this is the part of the program where we shoot the breeze for a little bit of time, because I know we got a lot to get to about what happened in the previous week. Let's start in the upper left. Quinn, what do you got for me?
+
+[10:20] Uh actually, two weeks ago, we managed to source uh local emergen eggs. So that was uh interesting. They're very mild taste, but very rich texture. So we did a a carbonara and a French style omelets. Pretty good.
+
+[10:45] How many humans are more? How many humans were at your house? Is an emu egg like an ostrich egg? It's roughly like like more it's more than a dozen. I know that an ostrich egg is more than a dozen eggs.
+
+[10:56] No, these are about ten. How many yolks? How many yolks in it? Well, I mean, we didn't get a super clean break on the yolk. Didn't use a Dremel, did you?
+
+[11:14] Didn't Dremel it, did you? Gotta dremel that side. No, no. What are you, Fred Flintstone? You need a Dremel for that, man.
+
+[11:21] You know what I'm saying? How'd you crack it? Uh just uh the back of a knife and just like tap tap tap around. Again, they're not as like crazy uh thick as a ostrich I've seen. But yeah, they're yeah, they're interesting.
+
+[11:43] And we're getting more this week, and they're definitely like a lower water content, I think. So I'm gonna try some form of custard and then uh fresh pasta. Yeah, I hard boiled one once and I was like, nah. I don't ever need to do that again. What a pain in the butt.
+
+[12:05] You know what I mean? That's what happened to me. I never tried to do anything else. Be real, Quinn. Did it taste any was it like, oh, I need that.
+
+[12:16] Emu meat's delicious. I like it. But like, do you need that's coming? Do you need to have emu egg again in your life? Or are you done?
+
+[12:26] You're like, I went big, now I can now I can chill and just eat normal sized eggs. Uh I think the the mild the mild taste actually could be interesting for complications where there's gonna be some other strong flavor, but I think the texture could be better than a normal egg. When you say texture better, is it because it doesn't have the correct yolk to white percentage, which is as much yolk as possible? I I think that's the correct percentage, right? Just general water content.
+
+[13:07] Like the yolk and the egg white when raw look a lot more risky. I see. Should make a sponge cake, see if it's eggy. Oh yeah, whip that thing. Yeah.
+
+[13:20] How about you want to try that? Do do a uh like what what should what should he do with only the yolks? You should do an angel food with the white, but crack it right. Don't be don't break those yolks. Do it do it uh uh an emu angel food cake.
+
+[13:34] I know it's every time an angel gets its wings, it's emu. It's emu. Like a one egg angel food cake. And then but like what what should what should uh what should what should I do? Emu eggs gives you wings.
+
+[13:46] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. What but what should what should the yolk prep be? Which one of the many yolk only preps? Like either a a customer, custard gelato or meal.
+
+[13:59] Listen. Like uh crime angle. Queen lemon, yeah. There you go. But let me give you, what'd you say?
+
+[14:04] Mayo. Yeah, there you go. See, what you need is something that is gonna highlight only the yolk. Yeah. Right?
+
+[14:10] You need something that's yolk-only situation. Like ancient food cake is the most egg white, other than just like an unsweetened meringue, which no thanks. You know what I mean? Like, or even like uh, I don't really do you does anyone like eating just those giant meringues that are like kind of just sugar puffs? No, right?
+
+[14:28] No one likes little Pavlova. They're good. Pavlovas are good. But then you're adding all Pavlova delicious. But then, you know, but then you're adding all like fruit or size.
+
+[14:37] So I think that the cleanest way to just taste uh egg white. Angel cake. Start throwing emy whites and cocktails? Oh, you can see how they shake. That's true.
+
+[14:50] Well, because I was thinking whipping it is gonna give you an idea of how it holds, like how the protein holds, right? Like how stable it is in a in an angel food kind of sitch. But yeah, what's the most yolk yolk? I think we're getting two. I mean, could just do like uh a creme creme caramel, creme brulee.
+
+[15:10] I mean, you're adding all this brown sugar and stuff. I'm saying, like, what is like just go the plainest, plainy, plain McPlane, so that you know what the yolk tastes like. You already know what caramel tastes like. You know what I mean? That's all I'm saying.
+
+[15:25] Like, yeah, that's all. Just isolate so you can and see whether it's actually different. You know what I mean? That's my you do what you want. It's your yay, it's your emu egg.
+
+[15:35] You know what I mean? That's it's all for you. Also, I think you need an ostrich and a ria next to it. Right. The comparison.
+
+[15:42] Yeah, yeah. Comparison. Not maybe at the same time. You can remember, he's recorded. I don't know.
+
+[15:46] Take notes. Take notes. You can buy a farmer. Ostrich eggs. You can buy unshelled ostrich eggs.
+
+[15:55] But because, yeah, the ostrich farmer or is it ostrich or email? The one who was uh at uh Union Square. Uh-huh. I think I asked him for in shell, and he was like, nah. I think they cr he like cuts them with a saw and then like puts them in like cartons.
+
+[16:09] Or he used to. This is I haven't asked in well, well, well over a decade. That dude might not be at the farmer's market anymore. Because I'm not looking for that. You know what I mean?
+
+[16:19] Who is looking for that? I don't know. It was a stunt that everyone wanted an ostrich egg. I want to say, like, like back in like early Sambar days, like 2012, everyone's like, I'm gonna cook an ostrich egg, and you do it one time. You know what I mean?
+
+[16:35] One time. Any of you guys ever cooked the ostrich egg and had some amazing? No. No. I've never even cooked the ostrich egg.
+
+[16:43] Yeah, no need. You know what I've never cooked on your menu? Yeah. Cobia fish. Never cooked it.
+
+[16:48] Good fish. Yeah? Strong fish. Literally. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[16:53] Good fighter, right? Also, the only member of its genus and family. It's like a ginkgo tree, but fish. You know what I mean? I mean, I'm not saying it's smelly like a ginkgo.
+
+[17:07] I'm saying it's like it's like a it's like an evolutionary outlier. It's like, you know, a fighter that survived while all of its cousins die. You know what I mean? Like one of one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[17:18] But I've never cooked one. I've had it. Anyway. Uh so uh all right, we covered and sm we covered and smothered the eggs. Yeah.
+
+[17:25] We're egged up. Covered and smothered. Exactly. Uh all right, uh, let's go, uh let's go over to John. What do you got for me, man?
+
+[17:32] Uh forget me, nothing exciting this week. It'll just be like two weeks, fool. Yeah, but I don't know it's okay. Let's still let's get to the guests and everything. We can talk about it.
+
+[17:40] Someday he's gonna come and he's gonna be like, I just developed 35 sandwiches. And then exactly Well, we're gonna talk about that in a in a minute, because we got to talk about what makes a bon me roll different and why I should care and what other sandwiches should be served on a bon me roll that aren't. For instance, meatball sub. Yes. Actually, quick note about next week's episode.
+
+[18:01] We have uh India Doris on from Marquettes, and we're gonna have her talk a little bit about fundraising for restaurant and things like that and restaurant finances. So I think that's something that's really none of us know about. So if listeners, you guys have questions about that, this is gonna be hopefully like the start of a little series I want to get going. Okay, so I don't know whether you guys heard because we we were all but Paul Carmichael, it was him. You could tell because he has a good voice, but it's no it's no Dennis.
+
+[18:26] Yeah. No, no. That's Dennis is like smooth and sexy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So uh said that pois should be served on Bon Miri.
+
+[18:35] Those are fighting words. Not to me, because I don't care. But like, so you like the thing about a po-boy roll is I think it needs to have something. Do you not like the super dry outside with the soft inside? Because that's it needs to be like they're achieving that texture.
+
+[18:50] That's the texture they want. I think a magical bon mi roll that's like crispy and soft and chewy and pillowy would be phenomenal with fried shrimp. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Although to me, I uh I'll I'll uh I won't die on this hill, but uh maybe two, three shots and then run on this hill.
+
+[19:14] But it's like uh debris. That's the po'boy. That's to me, that's the one to beat. I like fried seafood, but I could just eat fried seafood. You know what I mean?
+
+[19:25] Like the debris on a on a roll, that's good business. You know what I mean? I love a good sandwich, man. Sandwiches are good. Yeah.
+
+[19:33] My man John doesn't want to talk about it, but he's developing a whole boat, maybe developing a whole boatload of sandwich. It's happening. We just don't know when yet. But yeah. What's the worst sandwich?
+
+[19:42] Well. The worst sandwich everyone asks for. What's the worst thing that everyone, when you're opening a restaurant that's gonna have sandwiches, they're like, you need to have a and you're like, no. Ooh, good question. Yeah.
+
+[19:54] Yeah. What about a BLT? Whoa, BLT is brains. Whoa, stop, stop, stop. Slowly roll.
+
+[20:04] Yeah. That's a that's a God level sandwich, Quinn. Yeah. Maybe if you don't have the right tomato. If you if it needs to be on the menu, well like, what if they want a BLT on the menu every day of the year?
+
+[20:21] Well, that's you know, look, I have to say this. I'm gonna say this, and you're gonna know I'm a low quality individual. Because it's true. Kampari tomatoes are fine on a BLT. They're not God's BLT, but like you can now source tomatoes that are edible all year.
+
+[20:38] Yeah. Yeah. And honestly, a tomato on a BLT is fodder. It is just it's extra water with the freaking lettuce. It depends.
+
+[20:47] Like what makes a BLT, in my opinion, is the bacon and the mail. And all that extra water helps cut all the fat. Let me ask you a question. Are you like uh are you do you need Are you okay with a commercial male? Are you a male freak, like freaking this guy at the end of the, like my Monsieur the Francophone Jean who only freaking like can I make my own mail?
+
+[21:10] You know, like are you are you a buy mayo? Depends on the application. Okay. So if I was running a business that made a ton of sandwiches, I'm buying mail. Hell yeah.
+
+[21:22] Yeah. Which one? Well, you uh you're nodding your head. You're with me, Dennis. Yeah, I mean, oh no, I'm with Paul.
+
+[21:27] You're buying, yeah, I'm a big one. You're buying it. Me too. I buy it. John's the maker.
+
+[21:30] Hell of that. Not with what I'm gonna be doing. Yeah. So and what do you do? Are you a Hellman's, a Dukes, a Cupie, whatever the application you go different?
+
+[21:40] I I I'd go different. Cupies, like probably, and these are gonna be some fighting words, my least favorite, agreed. Because you hate touching the bottle? No, because it just dominates everything in its flavor. Cupie.
+
+[21:55] Yeah. You know, and when it's in a thing, you're just like, oh, Cupie. All right. I'm gonna say this. I'll say this and tell me if I'm wrong or if you agree.
+
+[22:03] That in the way I think Rust and Daughters does some stuff. I mean, Rust and Dollars plain cream cheese is all about the cream cheese. And so it's a very special plain cream cheese. All of their flavor cream cheeses are Philly. If you're gonna flavor a mayonnaise, get home and slash best made.
+
+[22:17] Because it doesn't get it. Just buy it. You know what I mean? Hellman's is great. That's good stuff.
+
+[22:21] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm not anti-Dukes. I've had Duke's canes, if you're up in Boston, I've had all of the regional mayonnaise that I could. Whenever someone has a regional mayonnaise, it's like I will try your regional mayonnaise.
+
+[22:31] You know his mayonnaise is not good. Sorry, Trader Joe's, your mayonnaise sucks. Is it too sweet or something? It's thin. It just doesn't hold up.
+
+[22:37] You can't like, you can't like put that on a fish and grill it. It's thin. You know what I mean? You know what's a sandwich I hate? What?
+
+[22:45] To answer your question? Steak sandwich. Oh. Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like thinly sliced, like cheese steaks.
+
+[22:53] Like a roasted piece of meat. Like a rib-eye sandwich. Like a red buy sandwich. Stuff of that nature, I never really understand. Either cold or hot.
+
+[23:00] Cold or hot. Like even in the in like the Japanese sense. I mean, like the Sando's? Yeah, you know, like I mean, when they're making those sandos, amazing beef. So long as a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a we stipulating not millon, not millinese.
+
+[23:15] Not like you're okay with like a chicken fried steak on on a s on. That's fine. But like a grilled piece of, I don't know, hanger or whatever. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[23:24] It's it's too hard to eat. You don't like that thing pulling out, you bite on it and comes out. And then some people will slice it and they think that makes it easier. No. Nah, that should have just come out too.
+
+[23:34] No. No. Now a roast beef sandwich. Totally different. So you're pro-roast beef.
+
+[23:38] Pro roast beef. Love roast beef. Yeah. And shave beef shaved style. Shave style beef.
+
+[23:42] Yeah. Yeah. But whole primal cuts put into a sandwich format. For me, a roast beef sandwich, gotta have horseradish. If they don't give me horserad on a cold roast beef sandwich, if I don't have horseradish, I just don't want to be there.
+
+[23:56] You know what I mean? It's like, what happened to me? You know what I mean? Why am I here? You know what I'm saying?
+
+[24:00] Yeah. It's like a hot dog with a mustard. Yeah, it's incorrect. Although uh Nastasia the hammer Lopez, when I was with her last, like I don't know, three days ago. We went to uh we went to see Brandy Carlisle in concert.
+
+[24:12] Who by the way, I don't know if you've ever seen Brandy Carlisle in concert. Fantastic. Right, Stas? Fantastic concert. Yeah.
+
+[24:21] Yeah. She she can send it to the show. She can sing she can sing her heart out. But Nastasia in the in the parking lot of the forum, right? Uh the person who drove us in almost killed a biker because they told us to go in the wrong lane.
+
+[24:33] So that was fun. But like we park and she's like, you need to get one of these LA hot dogs. So you had an LA hot dog? No. Okay.
+
+[24:41] So check the situation. It's a cart with a sheet tray. Yeah. With a yeah, like a like a full, I think it was a full, not a half, a full sheet tray. Underneath it is the high output Iwatani butane burger.
+
+[24:52] And so it's like it's like an aluminum pseudo camal made of a sheet tray. The danger dogs. Yeah. What? That sounds sus.
+
+[25:01] And then whatever. Dude, they can pump them out though. She's making a living, dude. And then she takes the dogs, which are fatter than our dogs, fatter than our dogs. They're almost they're closer to what used to be called uh hot beef here in in in Manhattan, if you're a old school Manhattan person.
+
+[25:16] She wraps it in bacon. Oh, yeah. And then she rolls them around until the bacon's like a little bit crispy. And then she moves it to the edge of her aluminum camal, right? Which it's, by the way, also bent the wrong way.
+
+[25:28] So it's bent, it's bent up, not down. Anyway. So, and then she's got like onions and like all kind of stuff. And then a pan and and like uh, you know, kind of roasted off or like, you know, aluminumed off uh jalapenos whole. I think tip off, like uh stem off.
+
+[25:48] And so Nastasia's like, you need to get it the way they make it, you need to get all all of the stuff on it. And and so all the stuff is I'm sorry, people who aren't from LA, mayonnaise, which I like love mayonnaise, right? I knew this was coming. Mustard and ketchup. It's a lot.
+
+[26:04] All three. Yeah. That sounds like Barbados. With with all the goop, with with like all the onions and peppers, and then the jalapeno. And the lady was like, You want a jalapeno?
+
+[26:12] I was like, of course. And she was like, huh. I was like, what? Anyway, so she put puts it all on, and then it just can't get the whole thing into your face. It tastes good, but it's not really like a it's like it's like Chicago dogs and Toronto dogs.
+
+[26:29] Like, I had to eat it. I you know, I'm making the motion. So you look like you're trying not to vomit on your shoes. Because you you know you're gonna be dropping stuff. You gotta you gotta assume the stents.
+
+[26:38] Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it'll bend over, but uh like yeah. But Nastasia Nastasia said, Nastasia said, I don't need to get it with all the things on because I already know what that tastes like, so she has got it the way she wanted it. Fear.
+
+[26:52] And sorry, John, they don't put it in the fork. They don't put a fork in it, so yeah. Oh darn. So yeah. I knew she was gonna that's why I brought that story up, because I knew she would dig on John for the time that we went to Billy Joel and the man ordered a rice platter with a fork while we were rushing to go see Billy Joel.
+
+[27:09] We had to go around around the whole MSG. I stand by the stuff. Who was the only person who was in in seat in time for uh for the concert with like uh yeah, who was it? Who's the only person in their seat in time for the concert? John Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[27:25] Yeah, and he had better food than everybody else. So I don't know better. Thank you, Jack. I don't know better. Like anything on a anything on a pita tastes good if the pita's okay.
+
+[27:35] And I have to say, for garbage for like standard like blah blah blahs, yeah, the bottom tier bread stuff in New York City, sorry, it currently is pretzels. Every pretzel you buy out blows. You know what I mean? It's just yeah, it's just not good. I'm sure when it came out of the oven, it was good.
+
+[27:53] Here's another thing. Maybe I went to the museum like like the day before uh I went to the Met the day before we I went to LA. This should be illegal. They have all of these carts in front of the Met. So my wife goes to the cart that looks like the pretzel's properly salted.
+
+[28:09] Stunt pretzel. Stunt pretzel. They gave her, they gave her this thing with almost no result. I was like, what the hell? What the hell?
+
+[28:18] Disappointing. Yeah, I know. Uh stunt pretzel. You should not be allowed to do that. You know what I mean?
+
+[28:24] That should be illegal. And why don't they make a hot hold for those things that actually hold. If we're gonna pretend that we're a pretzel town, someone, I we know the people, museum. Jesus, we have a we have a uh a literally an exhibit up now about food vendors. Uh but in New York.
+
+[28:39] But there's gotta be a better way to hot hold a pretzel. There's has to be a better way to hot hold a pretzel. This might be your new thing. Yeah. So that's bottom, that's for me, that's bottom tier because it should be top tier.
+
+[28:48] The reason it's bottom tier is because it should be top, top, top tier. Pretzel. You know what I mean? A good pretzel's good. But they're hard to come by.
+
+[28:56] Yeah, they are. Yeah. They are. Um There used to be this little restaurant in uh not used to be, it still exists, in Sydney called Ten Williams. They make a good pretzel.
+
+[29:06] Yeah? Servicely term Lasana. Okay, so hold up. So, Paul, how long were you in Sydney? Uh, ten years.
+
+[29:13] Just about a long time. Yeah. Yeah. You ever go back or no? I haven't been back since I've been here.
+
+[29:19] The entire time you were in Sydney, if I'm assuming at one point you ate. No hot dogs. Well, you ate down you ate down near the near the what's it called? There's all the sandwich shops down near where the botanical garden and all that stuff is, down near the water, near the opera house, near all that crap. Oh, uh Barangaroo-ish area.
+
+[29:36] Yeah, yeah. Anyway, uh, did you ever have to punch a seagull? No, no. It's it's like seagulls and bin chickens, the uh royal ibis. Uh they know what's up, man.
+
+[29:48] You know? So they knew I was a tourist, that's why they attacked me. Oh, yeah. I gotta fight. You you gotta walk there like a certain sort of energy not to get attacked by animals.
+
+[29:56] Yeah. Like, you know, I like for many years, I I I would say I've never been in a fight. And then now I I can't say that anymore because I fought a seagull. I won though. I won.
+
+[30:06] You're lucky to call his friends. Oh man, I know they would have a. I just looked, I don't know, it's weird. That's it's a it's a cool it's a cool place. Hey, did you go to the while you were there?
+
+[30:15] Did you go to the what's the famous uh dry uh dry age fish dude there? Uh Josh's place. Yeah. St. Peter's.
+
+[30:21] Good? Yeah, St. Peter's great. Have you ever had the side by side? I've never had someone do side by side.
+
+[30:26] This is the fish, this is the fish after the aging. Ooh. I've I've had that, but I've never had it like in a restaurant. No. Yeah.
+
+[30:34] Well, I guess you wouldn't, I guess you could do a tasting in the restaurant that is both delicious and instructive. Yeah, but it could get old real quick. You mean to do as a cook? No, to just as a diner. Well, no, but if like let's say it's an app and you're like same fish two ways, and you highlight the you highlight it like at like it's normal, however old that particular fish wants to be, you know, four days, five days, whatever it is.
+
+[30:58] And then like your dry age one and you highlight like we like the thing with that is that because animals are so different, you know, like beef, whatever. Yeah, like that four you might have like an amazing piece of fish at UVH for 14, and then you might get a piece that's just like a tuna is just like mid at you know, so it's like it's like finding finding two fishes that there's no like baseline, you know what I mean? But you have to find two fishes that are like top quality to to then try and weave the story. So then you pull down your glasses, like, can you afford only the mid-tuna? Or do you want the best to it?
+
+[31:42] Like the ham weasels do in s in Spain. You know what I mean? But all you know, I mean, sushi guys have been doing this a while. You go to like uh old school sushi spots, you'll get some old fish. Oldfish.com.
+
+[31:57] Yeah. Um, all right, hey, Jack, we didn't do you yet. What do you got? What do you got, Senor La Molecule? We're gonna move the show along, but w what I do have is um the live podcast from Night on Earth, which will be released soon for Patreons only, uh, for an exclusive window.
+
+[32:15] Um, and that was that was a blast being with all you guys recording that. And uh, so yeah. So that was Kevin that was Kevin Jung, who's uh running the R D right now and uh basically menu development at the Noma pop, which we can't talk about, but we toured the the place. Crazy. Oh, it always is.
+
+[32:34] I mean, crazy. Crazy. Uh Harold McGee needs no introduction. Harold McGee and Ariel Johnson also needs no introduction, but go buy her book, a flavorama. You know what I mean?
+
+[32:47] Anyway, uh all right, cool. And when we we're gonna put that up just for Patreon, you said for a while, right? Yeah. Yeah, cool. All right, Stas, what uh what of our trip do you want to uh pop out for today?
+
+[33:02] Um, well, I don't know. We ate at some good places, that's the thing, right? So you ate at where what was it the first night? We went to uh firstborn Lisa Lisa over there hooked us up at Firstborn. It was uh it was awesome.
+
+[33:16] It was good. And she banged out a whole tasting for like a bunch of us in like forty five minutes because I had to go with uh McGee and Kevin uh and we did a book because Ariel hadn't arrived yet, so we did a book talk at um at uh now serving, which is a cool bookstore. I don't know, I don't know neighborhoods, so I apologize, LA, but it's a cool bookstore, like a cookbook store. So like, you know, like if you're like I'm gonna buy a cookbook and I'm in New York, where do they go? Kitchenars and letters.
+
+[33:44] Ying ding. If you're in LA, go to now serving. You know what I mean? They're good people and they have like a good selection. The whole the whole time like we're talking, I'm like looking up and be like, I have that book.
+
+[33:54] I have that book. You know what I mean? I had such a good cookbook collection, like massive. It's all now stuck in Puerto Rico. Back to Mapesh.
+
+[34:06] So it's been in Puerto Rico for like 15 years? Yeah. Huh. Huh. Do you maintain a house there or you have a storage unit?
+
+[34:15] No, it's at my ex-mother-in-law's house. Ex-mother-in-law's house. Maybe she sold them. Maybe they're in a bin. Who knows?
+
+[34:22] Are you in good relations with her? Yeah, I would say so. Enough that she's gonna keep all of your books in her attic. There's no attic. Like, but like, are they in bookshelves then?
+
+[34:36] No, they were just a boxes like stacked up in in like the laundry room and a bunch of places. Probably. Those are gone. I'm holding on. You hold a hope?
+
+[34:49] Yeah, we're gonna be able to do it. You gotta get in contact. But how about this? They're gone. I know I've never been to Puerto Rico.
+
+[34:55] Never. Never. Like no, never. The only Caribbean place I've ever been is on the mainland. I've never been to an island.
+
+[35:02] I've never like crossed water. I mean, unless you count like the keys, but that's a bridge. You take a bridge. Here's the thing. Like sun and sand.
+
+[35:13] You could avoid the sand. Yeah, good, good. All right. All right. I mean, like, I I love like uh like good fruit and food.
+
+[35:14] So I I would like to go. Yeah. But you know, I know that if I go there with my family, they're gonna want to do like this kind of like paradise beach thing. That's not for me. Well, that's where they go, and then you hit the bars.
+
+[35:32] There you go. Yeah. The streets. Yeah. You know?
+
+[35:36] Someday. Someday. I'm I'm very similar to you in that regard. But I my wife's conditioned me to learn to love those kind of experiences. Because it can just be very, very casual and chill.
+
+[35:45] You're just laying out somewhere, someone's bringing you drinks and food. The kids and the wife can run around in the water. Yeah, but you're near the sand and nightmare. When my kids were little, when my kids were little, like it used to be that I had to watch them so they wouldn't drown. So it's also like not like, and I don't want to be in there doing that stuff.
+
+[36:04] So it's like I have to stay just the right distance so that if anything happens, I could go. But that's not the case anymore. So now like they go to this place that uh, you know, Wiley's friends with the we're all friends with the GM Colleen, place called Tourists in North Adams, where it's like, you know, one of the partners is from Wilco and they they have this like whole thing that they took over, and you can go there and the whole family can chill. It's kind of funny because across the street is a shop and stop or stop and shop, whatever it is, whatever the real word is. And then supermarket?
+
+[36:31] Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like it's like in a highway. So you get right there, but as soon as you cross the threshold, it faces all the other way, and it's like you're with no one. It's like a little like resort thing. So it's kind of cool, right?
+
+[36:40] North Adams, which a bunch of cool stuff there. I don't know how I how I got on this. I don't know what we're talking about. It's over. Uh Puerto Rico.
+
+[36:48] Puerto Rico. No, no, but no, but like, no, so like the family, they just rent all pool time. They're like, oh, we're just standing by the pool all day. Like, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna read.
+
+[36:55] I'm gonna walk in the woods. That's what I like to do. I like to walk in the woods. Tell you you go to Puerto Rico. You could go to the rainforest, you can walk all you want.
+
+[37:03] I like that. And it's beautiful. I bet. Look at me. Shout out to Puerto Rico.
+
+[37:08] Yeah, you know. Um. All right, wait, because we went through all the stuff for the week. Now we can talk about stuff. Wait, I mean, anybody talk about the combine?
+
+[37:17] That just ended. No? No call my fans here. The NFL combine? Yeah.
+
+[37:23] We can definitely get into that if you'd like. What is that? The NFL combine just ended. To me, a combine is something that gathers grain. That's why I wasn't sure.
+
+[37:32] Well, and in all fairness is probably how they look any players as green as I'll say this. We'll talk about it later because we're gonna run out of time. But Nastasi and I went to Disneyland and let me tell uh well we didn't, we went to it's called Californialand. I don't know why you have a place called California Land in California, it doesn't make sense. I'm already in California.
+
+[37:50] Whatever. But it's like an it's like a Disneyland adjunct. So Nastasia took us there and we tried almost every alcoholic cocktail on premise. Which Any good ones? I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you.
+
+[38:06] But uh but well it's a it's a it's a challenging problem, actually, and I think they don't because they need to keep the alcohol level down so that a 500 mil serving is still not too much alcohol to hand someone. So they're all very diluted, which means that like they haven't brought they haven't really thought about using low alk technology in their drinks to make the drinks taste like standard cocktails, even though they're way low ABV and very tall. They could, but then I was thinking about this is the freakonomics problem. Why would they? They're already selling them as fast as they can pump them out of their systems.
+
+[38:37] Yep. So, like, you know, why would they wanna take on a new ingredient that's difficult to source or something that might, you know, need to balance on a razor's edge when they can just do what they've been doing and make that m make them margins. Make money, make money, make money. Yeah. So, but then uh we went to the um Grand Californian hotel.
+
+[38:56] Grand California, right, Stas? That's what the hotel's called? I think so. Grand Californian, Grand California, which is their like giant fancy resort hotel on premise where you can stay and then go afterwards. But you can also just go in the parking lot.
+
+[39:08] By the way, they've they they fix your parking. So you don't need to pay eight billion dollars. How much was parking, Stas? 40. Oh, it's not as bad as I thought.
+
+[39:17] I thought it was gonna be a million dollars. Those suckers stole my TSA approved pocket. I have a I have a Swiss Army TSA approved no-blade pocket tool that I have with me at all times. I was like, yo, it's TSA approved. And the lady's like, we're not TSA.
+
+[39:31] I'm like, I am aware. I was like, what I'm saying is you're being unreasonable, regardless of who pays your your paycheck. You know what I mean? Anyway, so they threw that away. But uh, if you want to eat at the restaurant, they vouch it so you don't pay parking, you can just park there and and eat.
+
+[39:45] Very good restaurant. And like totally different vibe, a different team. They still have to work with Big Disney. It the restaurant's called the um Napa Rose, and it's all like a a shout out to like the West. So on their cocktail menu, every cocktail is named after a place in California and has some referent to a place in California.
+
+[40:04] So it's part of the theme of like California land. Is there a drink called Joshua Tree? Hmm. There's a sequoia. Uh there's not a Death Valley either.
+
+[40:14] Needed missed opportunities here. Yeah. It's a real short drink. Back to the drawing board, guys. But uh I thought it was good.
+
+[40:20] What do you think, Stas? Patrick there hooked us up. Patrick, who's their Psalmslash, I guess GM. Uh-huh. Like, because they just reopened recently, uh, and they hooked us up.
+
+[40:30] So Nastasi, of course, got her favorite cocktail, which is wine. Of the red variety. Uh she got some of the all some of the all, right, Stas. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[40:41] No, it was great. That was a really, really nice. Yeah, they have a they have a uh they have a woman on the menu that's literally called Surprise Me. Oh. You know what I mean?
+
+[40:52] And then Patrick comes over and surprises you. But what's cool in the backup house is they have everything on a coravan system, including their champagnes. So like if they have a week where no one comes in and wants to get like their like crew or whatever, I don't forget what their higher, you know, their higher dollar value ones are. They're like, they say it it lasts like forever, so they can have a bunch of stuff by the glass, it stays good, even at a big place like that, and they super up their bottle count and everything. So anyway, that's what we did.
+
+[41:16] Napa Rose. Napa Rose. All right. This is a real deal restaurant. Yeah.
+
+[41:20] And well, it's like, you know what? You also have like when you're at a Disney place, it's like it's you have a different different expectation. You walk in, you'd be like, it's gonna blow. And it's like so he's like, oh, it's good. They're actually doing a good job.
+
+[41:32] And it's probably hard as hell because they do, I think a large volume. Yeah. Oh. They're a volume situation. Huge.
+
+[41:40] Oh, yeah. Big. Big. Probably. Probably.
+
+[41:46] Let me ask you, because I ask uh a lot of people, and I know the answer, but I just like to hear different. Why do chefs hate brunch service so much? I don't hate brunch. You guys are the only chefs on earth who hate don't hate brunch? What about this?
+
+[41:58] What if you had to do it? I did my brunch service. Really? Yeah. That was my favorite service to do.
+
+[42:03] Remember my pet. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So tell me, tell me.
+
+[42:07] Why are you why are you guys swimming against the current on the brunch hate? Is it the I think most people just don't like the crowd that comes in and the fact that I had to get up early to do brunch after a Saturday. I think that's what it is. I I think for me, brunch from a business perspective needs to be worth the squeeze. So if you're getting up early and you're gonna do a bunch of covers, like the revenue better reflect that rather than it be like, you know, you're busting your balls to do freaking three K.
+
+[42:35] You know what I mean? Yeah. The other problem is that, right, is if you're gonna be open on that Sunday anyway, like either if you weren't gonna be open on that Sunday, then you have to open a restaurant for the whole for the whole day. That's uh or it also if you weren't already open for breakfast, it it totally borks out your prep schedule because now your kitchen's in service during when your normal prep fools would be doing their stuff. Is that another reason why people because it messes their schedule?
+
+[43:00] I mean, that could be it. I think people I I honestly feel like a lot of chefs and restaurant people hate brunch because it's on a Sunday. Yeah. And it starts at like 10. Yeah.
+
+[43:12] And you're like, boo, I'd much rather be in bed. Because I'm hungover from Saturday. Right. Is that is that the only meal where Americans still get turned at at lunchtime? It's definitely one of them for sure.
+
+[43:26] Yeah. I think a good bottomless brunch. Yeah, alcohol's still v tied very closely with brunch, and especially as people start drinking less. That's the one it still feels like. Let's go celebrate.
+
+[43:36] Yeah. Let's just get loose. I have an excuse to, you know, get loose and stuff. Bottomless bubbles, bottomless margaritas. Yeah.
+
+[43:43] Well, I'll tell you about like it wasn't bottomless because we pay for every single one, but like all of those cocktails at like 11 a.m. at Disney, man. Oh my God. Oh my God. Like it was a whole team of us.
+
+[43:56] We have a video which we'll post, I don't know, at some point, of like Harold McGee and Ariel Johnson tasting all of the Disney cocktails. And there's some priceless looks on Harold's face. You know what I mean? Anyway. Uh all right.
+
+[44:10] So both. Okay, so I I don't know how to approach this because we have we have different questions. Should I just start randomly asking some questions? Or you guys want to talk about anything in particular about working. Are you random away?
+
+[44:23] Yeah, random. Random. All right. So uh Dennis. Yeah.
+
+[44:28] First of all, Bobo, you buy, you know, on uh John sent me an eater freaking video from I don't know when, like three, four years ago. You're calling out Bobo Chicken, which used to be in the Lower East Side. Yeah. And now it's in Brooklyn, Williamsburg. Right.
+
+[44:43] And they always said that they didn't do any slaughtering on premise. Okay. Yeah. Uh I mean, I don't know if that's the case at the new location, but I I would believe so, but I've never seen that room. Used to be a lot more live chicken joints in New York than there are now.
+
+[45:00] Yeah. You know what I mean? I saw one on the air train. I was like, oh, live chicken joint. Because there used to be, I think maybe even the ones in some of Utica.
+
+[45:10] Like out by the bagel place? Yeah, in like Utica. I go down there sometimes to get goat if I can't get goat. And there is from a live chicken place. Is the one uh is the one up above 116th uh on the on the east side in Harlem still open?
+
+[45:23] That one I'm not sure. The one I think on the west side over near Broadway, I think closed, Anzi's or whatever it was called. I don't know. Like we we we keep losing them because nobody wants to live next to a live chicken place. I well, I mean I used to live across the street from one in Green Point back in the day.
+
+[45:40] That, you know, that cadence of 5 a.m. getting woken up by the truck coming in and the birds clucking and then the feathers everywhere. It's it's not attractive. I mean, so for those of you that have never chicken chicken smells not a good stuff. Yeah, chicken smells not good.
+
+[45:53] Those of you that have never so the the weirdest thing is uh this is many, many years ago, decades ago, the wind was blowing away from me and I was at nighttime and I was uh walking on the sidewalk and I was walking and I was passing a chicken truck, but I couldn't smell it because the woman was going the other way. But it sounds like this. I was like, what the hell? Chicken truck. Chicken truck.
+
+[46:20] Chicken truck. Chicken truck. But um so Bobo, here's what irritates me. Anytime you have one of those metal Buddhist chicken things on the thing, why? I I don't know.
+
+[46:28] And they're they're a pain in the butt to clip off and make sure that you're not ripping the skin and all that stuff that nature. I agree. For those of you who don't know what we're talking about, the I don't even know really like what the slaughter method of a or a raising method of a quote unquote Buddhist chicken is. I don't know what actually what that means. But we yeah, yeah, you do you you do strike a pose when you're doing it.
+
+[46:47] But they take the equivalent of imagine when you go to a museum and they hand you one of those little metal McGillas that you stick on your sweater. Right, right. But instead of it being something you can just lift off, it's got a spike and it goes clack into the stapled it. Yeah. It's the and and and they put it like like in the underarm area, usually, you know what I mean?
+
+[47:06] And it's just uh it sucks. I agree. Um if that's one piece of feedback I'd give them, get rid of the metal thing. But they've been doing it for decades and decades and decades. And other companies, I guess, do it too.
+
+[47:18] Like when you go to the markets, some of the some of those have it, you know what I mean? If they're uh usually the head-on chickens. Yeah. You know what I mean? Have the the Buddhist chicken.
+
+[47:26] Does anyone know what that means? Not really sure. No. So here's what you said. You can go to Bobo.
+
+[47:31] Do you have to ask special? You can get an older bird. How old are they? Are they actual stewing hands? They're actual stewing hands and really great for stock.
+
+[47:38] Just a really really rich yellow chicken flavor that um just really hard to achieve with any other kind of bird that I found. So if they're old, but they're not like, you know, like like super super fat, like grained up, like what is what is one weigh? Like three? Yeah. Three and a half, four.
+
+[47:56] Okay. And so you're doing you're doing uh about a pound per quart then. So you're doing a 15 gallon stock with 15 chickens. Yeah, more or less. So okay.
+
+[48:06] So all right, so we're getting your meat ratio down. Now, here's some fun. No roast on the uh you're you're blonde. You said you you like, you know, dentists prefer blondes. I Yes.
+
+[48:18] I I I don't canceled. I never really I never really appreciated roasting my aromatics. So I put them in blonde, yes. I like the color of the this of the stock afterwards. Um meat goes in, meat goes in also unroasted.
+
+[48:38] Yes, yeah, yeah. For for for my application, yes. And no aromatics at the get. No. Meat.
+
+[48:45] Meat only. Yeah. Meat, water. Yeah. Meat water.
+
+[48:49] Then an hour beforehand. That's when you add an hour before you're done, you add the Aeromax, which in the in for the for the pho, it was ginger and onion. Onion, yeah. Also unroasted. Unroasted.
+
+[49:03] Yeah. And then fish sauce and salt and sugar. MSG as well. And sweet, sweet. But the question so you're you only use it for that one application.
+
+[49:13] Would you salt it if you weren't gonna, or would you wait to put the fish sauce in? Do you need to put it in beforehand if you were gonna like multitask it out? If you're gonna do it like, you know, use it as a basement. Why the aromatics at the end? I don't know.
+
+[49:29] If I find it's in there too long, it starts to get kind of muddy and just kinda both ginger and onion? Yeah. Uh okay. All right. You know what?
+
+[49:40] That's that's my take. Yeah hey, hey man. Like you're doing it. You're loving it. Like uh for me, like I'm the opposite.
+
+[49:46] I'm a brownie brown, brown brown, brown brown, brown. You know what I mean? Like I'm like I roast off the bones. First of all I'm using BS chickens. And BS doesn't mean bow but means bull crap.
+
+[49:55] I use just garbage chickens. They're not garbage. They're fine. Right. You know what I mean?
+
+[49:58] There's they don't have a crap ton of flavor. Yeah. And there's no metal band. No metal band. And I'm using and they're they're only six weeks old and I'm using mainly backs and bones, right?
+
+[50:08] Stuff that like gets taken off when I'm taking the meat off and I save it up. And so I have to roast the hell out of that and then I usually roast the carrots and the celery. I do like you know euro equally just delicious. Just as good. I don't I'm not reading that on your face, man.
+
+[50:22] I'm not saying it I mean like I there's an application for that that, you know, I enjoy but for the style of chicken pho that I was producing at the time, like I said, I just wanted something very clean and light and very chickeny, you know. So um that's the the reason why we went with those birds and hence why I just like didn't avoid I avoided roasting and all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Uh I also saw that you're pretty hardcore about making everyone squeeze the meats when you're doing rolls.
+
+[50:49] They squeezing the meats. They Oh well, I mean, you know, it's wrapping everything in towels and meat squeezes. I mean, I learned this from you. It's moisture management when you're frying stuff. You know?
+
+[50:57] So like you gotta get all the liquid out. So, you know, when you're making those spring rolls, you're already introducing a lot of water into the rice paper. So if you don't want them exploding on you and bubbling up, squeeze that meat. You've got to squeeze that meat. Squeeze that meat.
+
+[51:10] Squeeze that meat. Hey, I remember are we dropping the track right now? Squeeze that meat. Squeeze that meat. Yeah.
+
+[51:16] Squeeze that meat. Uh I remember last time uh you were here, I don't know if it was on air or not, like uh you uh were lamenting the quality of the general rice paper that we get, like it's jacked with tapioca and stuff. Yeah, is it better now? Uh no, not really. And I think it's just a product of the demand here and just the transit time from Vietnam.
+
+[51:37] So I wouldn't say is the purpose to make it less brittle before it's been rehydrated? To adding a tapioca? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[51:44] So it's a guy, right? What's that? Yeah, the guy. I had a guy that was I was like from Carolina or something. I yeah, I I have a guy in North Carolina that was pro that still does provide us with all our rice noodle products.
+
+[51:56] It's a guy, he runs this place called Kana Noodles. That's the one you were like, those these are my favorite. These are my favorite, yeah. So um You want to shout shout them out. Well, what's your what's and what makes them better?
+
+[52:05] Uh I mean, well, just his attention and care to it. He developed his own line. So he was an engineer, I think, um previously in a previous life. So he really nerded out, developed his own line. Um, but just his attention to detail, you know, and the product that he makes, specifically the rice vermicelli noodles, I found just really the best that I've had in the United States.
+
+[52:26] There's actual texture, there's a bounce to it versus the dried product that most people are using um for this application. Um I'll bring some next time when I come back to talk about Vinnie Me's food, Dave. But on a bounce on a rice, how do you get the I mean, like it doesn't have the same function, like you can't like can't sway concept rice. No. Yeah.
+
+[52:44] Yeah. I don't know. It's his technique, you know. It's uh he's uh he's a mad mad scientist doing some unique things down there. Probably like finely titrating the different rices out.
+
+[52:53] Yeah, I mean, he has a very, very unique detailed process. Um yeah. I I went down to visit a couple times to witness it, and um it's quite a scene. Yeah. So at the end of this 15-minute uh video from eater that uh John sent me, this segues into what you're doing now.
+
+[53:10] You actually, and this I think I wish everyone would do this. I wish everyone would do this when they're doing tours of their restaurant, and they never do. You showed some R D. Like at the end of it, you're like, we're RDing this. Like uh I have this, I have this person, he's he's good at pasta, he's Italian.
+
+[53:26] So we're gonna like allow, we're gonna we're gonna let him do pasta. He was doing a fried fried lobster, which frying whole lobster, like just tossing like the shell and flour. I haven't had them, I'm sure it's fine I'm sure it's good. Yeah. But but these the average American suck on the suck on the carapace?
+
+[53:42] No. Suckers, dumbass. Dumb people. Yeah, anyway, whatever. Like some people do though.
+
+[53:45] Yeah, yeah. So, but then uh and then you also showed a dessert development, which I thought was really interesting. I still don't understand why that banana so he steams a banana. It was it was plantains, baby plantains in like uh sticky rice patches. Surrounded by banana leaf steamed overnight, she said.
+
+[54:02] It's a long time. A couple hours. Long. Yeah. Banana comes out red.
+
+[54:08] Why? Oh, the the the plantains? Yeah. I don't know. Some sort of oxidation process when it's cooking.
+
+[54:13] I don't know. It's not like it's not exposed to air or anything. No, it's not regular, like plantain brown color. It's red, yeah. Like brick.
+
+[54:23] It like looks almost like you colored it. It almost looks like you put like jujubi in it or something. Yeah. You know what I mean? It was like I don't recall.
+
+[54:32] That was a while ago. Yeah. Yeah. But that's it. That was a tasty dessert.
+
+[54:35] Um I mean, who doesn't love sticky rice stuffed with things? I believe your comment was too much banana for the rice. But I but I'm sure they had I'm sure they had it for the because what they do people is they they cook it, cool it, open it, deep fry it. Deep fry anything with rice. It's gonna be good.
+
+[54:51] It's gonna be good. It's gonna be good. Yeah. You know what I mean? Anyway, point being, uh, I think it's really good to show the RD process.
+
+[54:57] I think it's really helpful. So I think I wish more chefs when you know folks were gonna come would do that. And so now you're doing RD. This is unlike Paul here, who was quoted in one of the articles that was sending me, I'll give you the recipe, but it's not gonna taste as good as when I make it. I mean, that's true as well.
+
+[55:13] Those are facts. Off you go. That was the pull-out quote. I mean, like, I'll give you the recipe, but you know, you suck, so that's not a tri that's that's not the case. It's like I think I think recipes are guides, and people who are exceptional at cooking have uh a space that they are dialed in when they're doing a thing, and reps help, and just because you got a thing that's grammed out doesn't mean you're gonna make something that's gonna be delicious.
+
+[55:43] It's true story. Yeah, I mean it is. We were at WD and everything was done to the gram. You could tell who made something and who didn't, you know. You're just like, uh X person made this, X person made this, same recipe.
+
+[55:56] So we had I always forget because everything blends together. Which era of WD were you there? Like which, like who is who it was, was it Sam era or Alex era? Both. Okay, so you crossed the border.
+
+[56:08] Yeah, crossed the border. Um, so that was Mikey Sharing was the same thing. Oh my god, he's so good. Is he is he's where where is he still cooking in Chicago? That's the last I heard.
+
+[56:19] Yeah. With his brother. Yeah. Um so on the 10th anniversary of WD, I really liked his beat dish, and I don't like beat dishes. And he did a really good beat dish.
+
+[56:30] Yeah. Mike's a great cook, man. Yeah. Well, look, WD, first of all, you started Aquavet. No, well, I I caught wind of you at Aquavit with Nils and Marcus, then WD, or is it the other way around?
+
+[56:42] No, no, Aquavit was first. Yeah, and then uh, and then, you know. It was at the tasting room before WD. Yeah. But monster cooks came out of both places.
+
+[56:54] Monsters and like a good network. Momo poached a bunch of those fools. You know what I mean? But uh anyway, WD was interesting because a lot of those techniques, everyone assumes that they're and you can look at a lot of those techniques, at least the ones that Stu Pac is putting up on his uh on his Instagram now. He was on the show a couple weeks ago.
+
+[57:14] They all take the hand. Like, so even though they're very technical, like they require the hands to have practice. You know what I mean? Especially like like the egg yolks, all of those things. The amount of things that were on that menu that seemed super simple, and the recipes were simple.
+
+[57:36] It took a lot of like repetition to like nail because it's just like they're all the variables when it comes to like temperature, the actual ingredient, who's pissed off that dish, how many pint containers we had. That was a crazy kitchen for chefs to cook in, though. It was so nice. It was the f best. It's nice.
+
+[57:57] Yeah. I mean, like, you I don't think you could spend that. Oh my god, only two minutes. All right. Hold on.
+
+[58:01] Uh all right, what do we got? What do we got? Okay. I asked you about uh dog sauce. I oh, your patties are laminated dough.
+
+[58:11] They look laminated. Is that standard or is that you? That's so our baked patties and laminated and they're a fusion between Haitian technique and Jamaican technique. So the Haitian patty is a laminated patty. And they focus a lot on their dough.
+
+[58:30] Whereas like I find Jamaican patty focuses a lot on filling. Right. Whereas the dough is very good and flaky. It's not like layered like uh like a puff, right? So we just melded the two.
+
+[58:45] Where it's like the dough tastes like Jamaican patty, but it looks like a Haitian patty, and the fillings are generous. Yeah, now we had um we had the Lion Dance Cafe folks on, and they use a flavored oil for the oil portion of their oil dough and their laminated uh stuff. Do you do you use a flavored oil or no? No, we just use fancy French butter. Oh, butter, butter, butter, butter.
+
+[59:08] Uh which what's your what's your are you are you one of these barat people? What are you? We use uh was it Eve something? Isn't it? Yes, Latin.
+
+[59:16] Look at John. Verdict, yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah, I knew you were gonna bust out the you're gonna bust out the friend. All right, so listen, in the 32 seconds we have remaining, what have I not asked?
+
+[59:23] I've not asked anything about how so for the we have not talked at all about like doing development for Mamufuku. We've talked a little bit about the restaurant, but I don't know what to say. I feel maybe we could do this for another 45 to hour. I mean I will say this. Parting words.
+
+[59:41] You want a good hot dog in New York City, go to McSorley's. Really? I always get cheese plate and liverwurst sandwich. Very good as well. Yeah, with the spicy mustard.
+
+[59:44] All right. What's uh Dennis? What are your what are your parting words of wisdom? We didn't get to talk about the fact that you still own a restaurant, but you're not there, and you're now researched. You're head of culinary bubba boob, East Coast and Momo.
+
+[1:00:05] That's a lot. It's it is a lot of work, yes. Um I don't know. Yeah, I have nothing to say. No parting words.
+
+[1:00:11] Nope. Come on, no parting words of wisdom. Uh I look forward to coming back to talk about Vietnamese food. How about that? Oh, yeah, because we're gonna come back.
+
+[1:00:17] I can't taste anything today. I don't want to talk about why my colonoscopy press press sucks so hard. But pooping issues. Yeah, pooping issues. But uh yeah, I want to come back and you were we are you coming back with Andrea or no?
+
+[1:00:27] Yeah, I was gonna coordinate something to Andrea and we'll come back. We'll do a little tasting this time. We should also taste maybe the vegetarian one. Yes. And we should we'll taste some we'll taste maybe some non-standard fish sauces.
+
+[1:00:38] Squeeze that meat. Squeeze that. Squeeze that meat. All right, cooking issues. Thanks.
+
+[1:00:43] Thanks for coming on. Yeah.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Larnell, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the heart of Manhattan, Rockefeller Center of New York City, New Stance Studios. Joined as usual with John, how you doing? Doing great, thanks. Yeah?
+
+[0:20] Yep. You enjoying your now having to commute into the city from Connecticut? No, definitely not. You're learning it? No.
+
+[0:26] Love. It's a long drive float traffic, yeah. I'm me, I hate I95. It's a true story. But as you know, my New Year's resolution is more small irritations, more tiny cuts.
+
+[0:34] Stan 95. Yeah, dude. More community. Love it. It's like the BQE of the North.
+
+[0:38] Exactly. Yeah. Uh behind me I got Joe Hazen rocking the panels. What's up? Hey, good morning, everyone.
+
+[0:43] Full house here. Yeah, yeah. Uh holding down Vancouver Island. Quinn, what's up? Hey, good.
+
+[0:49] Good, good, good. And then down in Los Angeles, we have Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. What's up? Hi. And Jackie Molecules.
+
+[0:58] What's up? Yo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, you know, still breathing, as they say, or as my grandpa used to say, vertical. Until he wasn't, right?
+
+[1:07] Until he was dead. He would always just say, either he'd say vertical or soberly, which you know the latter was a lie. You know what I mean? He comes from that era where soberly wasn't a thing. Uh and oh, and special guest in the studio today.
+
+[1:24] We have uh India Doris, first time on the show. Welcome. How's it going? Owner, chef, uh, Marquette and uh the Argyle, right? And also, not announced, but the reason you came on is you're working with our man John here.
+
+[1:40] You're taking him on in a new project. You can't, I guess you haven't announced it yet. We'll see what you can talk about it. But John wanted to have you on today, not for your storied resume and your abilities as a cook. But to talk about what it's like opening a restaurant.
+
+[1:55] So welcome. Thank you. Yeah. So, but this is the portion of the show where we discuss things that have happened in the past week or so. Shoot the breeze.
+
+[1:59] So let's uh so we don't have a big pause. Quinn, what do you got for us? Uh let's see. This week I had a more successful uh facaccia-ish facatuloid recipe. Uh this time making a homemade uh paprika oil.
+
+[2:26] That turned out pretty good. What kind of paprika? I did it, I'm sort of just used up when I had, so it was a mix of sweet and hot. But smoked. No smoked.
+
+[2:41] No smoke. Smoked, sweet and hot blend. So like Hungarian style. Yeah. Yeah, I guess I don't know if it was actually from Hungary.
+
+[2:51] It could have been a Spanish one that just wasn't smoked. We were just in an old like homemade labeled container. Between you and me. Between you and me, did the temperature get too high and it tastes scorched in the oil? Between you and me.
+
+[3:06] Just you don't have to just no one else has to hear, but just between you and me. I got I got dude, I got the control free throw. What are you thinking is the amateur hour? All right, fair. And how is the focacci?
+
+[3:19] You know that like the best focacci in the world for me is just okay. Oh. It's good. Someone hands me a good facace, I'm like, oh, this is good. But if you're like, you have to drive 80 miles to taste this person's focaccia, I'm like, no, I don't.
+
+[3:34] You don't even do that for any bread though? Yeah. Oh, wow, okay. Yeah, I guess that's fair with everything you like about it. Yeah, I mean, I'm okay.
+
+[3:41] I'll say this. One of my caregivers, she tried an iteration for a few weeks ago, and she's like, you know, she cooks for herself, but she's not like the baker, and she immediately told me I had to teach her the recipe. So I feel like that's something. But she lives on Vancouver Island. We have no idea what the Vancouver Island Focaccia game is like unless Pamela Anderson's going around doing some sort of fancy farm-raised focaccia over there, right?
+
+[4:10] I mean, like, how's the focaccia game on Vancouver Island, like in general? Um, I have a few places where you can get it, but I I don't have a lot of sampling because I make my own bread here. Let me ask you a question. Like, and we'll we'll leave it out after this, but other than the word is really good, focaccia. What is it about focaccia that you like as opposed to other flattish raised breads?
+
+[4:37] Puffy, flat raised bread things. See, to me, it's the crumb texture of focaccia is never what I really want out of life. Neither is like the top surface. It's not it's not what I'm looking for. I won't be able to do that.
+
+[4:53] I feel like you're agreeing with me a little bit because you're no, I kind of disagree. You love it? I love focaccia. There you go. See, I'm not saying my opinion is correct.
+
+[5:02] This is just my opinion. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I mean, I think it's delicious. You would choose it over you would drive eighty miles. I would not drive eight miles to get any type of bread or anything like that.
+
+[5:13] Agreed. Pizza? No, I wouldn't do that. Why would I do that? Well, I guess if you were, let's say uh if you make it, then you kind of like you travel to if someone had something that you like spent a lot of time making, then you would travel 80 miles to see whether this person could teach you something that you wouldn't otherwise know, I guess.
+
+[5:31] That's why I want to travel places to s to taste something where I'm like, oh, it turns out I don't know anything. Because that happens all the time to me. If it's an experience, yes. If you're going to a new place, a new town, or something that's more than just the for catch a shop, but just the forkatcha, yeah. No, I'm not waiting outside for for a loaf of bread, no.
+
+[5:51] Well, what food would you travel for? Uh I mean, something you I can't get here, you know. Something I can't get here. Something that's like culturally of that place. What if it's culturally of that place, but it actually isn't very good?
+
+[6:04] For instance, there's a cheese, I forget what country it's from, but it's like, you know, I think it's a like a Balkan nation called Puel. And it's half donkey milk. Oh. Half sheep. And it's the it's just like I think they make it like a fresh Chev kind of a sitch.
+
+[6:19] Maybe it's half goat, I don't know. But it's like the most expensive cheese in the world. And you have to go tour their farm, and then you get this like little thing of donkey milk cheese, and it's like $350 a kilo or some crap. Yeah. And I'm like, you know what?
+
+[6:31] I'm good. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I'm I'm English. I like a cheddar cheese.
+
+[6:36] I'm good with that. Well, it's uh like uh when you were back there, were you buying for Neil's Yard when you were uh for professionally when you were working? You know, they send they don't send the best cheeses always over here. Yeah, I don't know. I mean you can get so many different cheeses from so many different parts of the UK, so like it's it's accessible.
+
+[6:51] Yeah. I whenever I go to whenever I go to uh England, the first stop I make is to one of the two Neil's Yard dairies to stock up on cheese. I can't like literally off the plane directly in Neil's Yard. I mean UK cheese is on point. Very good.
+
+[7:05] Uh all right, so uh all right. So uh Jackie Molecules, what do you got for us? So I made it to, I don't know if you're familiar with squirrel, but uh LA spot. They they they just started doing dinner. Um I found it really awesome.
+
+[7:22] So they're just yeah, one of the dishes was they call it squimps. It was like this chorizo and shrimp stuffed squid. So like the squid encases this like chapterized and shrimp. It was it was very good meal. I don't know.
+
+[7:36] She's she's great, obviously, with all the fermentation stuff. Um, but it was just yeah. So they they've come they've come back. I know they had some problems a couple of years ago. They came back from the brink of that social media nightmare.
+
+[7:49] Mold gate, yeah. I mean, you know, that was like the peak of cancel culture. So it's it seems like uh that's the that those temperatures have calmed. Yeah, yeah. Uh I wonder whether I've said this on the air many times, but the trick that uh Miley, my sister-in-law Miley, who's been on the show, learned from her teacher, Didier at the French Culinary Institute on stuffed squid, turn them inside out before you stuff them.
+
+[8:14] Turn them inside out. I wonder whether they did that there. I wonder whether she's an inside out squid person. Hot take, bro. Hot take, frozen squid, good because it's more tender.
+
+[8:27] Yes or no. Ooh. First of all, who's buying fresh squid anyway, right? It's all frozen. Yeah.
+
+[8:33] Right, that's basically where I'm at. What do you think, Andy? I don't know. I mean, I you know, I I I I I don't think uh I don't think it matters. Yeah.
+
+[8:42] I'm uh like my son is a squid i it. Get this. I finally hooked my hood up, right? And he he he's like, when the hood works, will you fry squid for me? I'm like, yeah, sure.
+
+[8:53] And then blah, blah, blah, bquid, squid, squid, squid, squid. I'm like, all right, listen, go to Aqua Best, which is a you know, a supplier really close to my house, right? It's like like a 10-minute walk from my house. I'm like, go to Aquabest, you can get tubes. I'm not gonna clean the freaking squid.
+
+[9:05] F you, I'm not gonna clean the squid, right? I'm like, and I don't want him to do it either, because if he cleans squid, then I have to clean the whole kitchen of the squid parts. So no, you know what I mean? So I'm like, you can get tubes, you can get tentacles, you can get a mixed box. They're the standard, like, you know, the small box, the same one as a shrimp, which is like three pounds or something like that, right?
+
+[9:23] He comes back with like a two and a half kilo box. And then, like Wiley, my brother-in-law with Wiley Dufrein, he's over at the house and he's freaking clowning me the whole time. He's like, Did you make enough squid? Did you make enough squid? I'm like, Wiley, what the hell am I supposed to do with all this squid?
+
+[9:41] It's thawed. I have to freaking cook it. And so then he gets everyone else to clown on me for all the freaking squid I'm making. Whatever, man. Squid.
+
+[9:51] Um, it sucks. Anyway, yeah. So uh squint squid, what'd you call it, Jack? Squink, squinky? Squimps, squimps, squimps, I don't know.
+
+[10:02] I don't know about that name, man. Squimps. You know what? You know what they need to do over there if you're still in contact with them? They need to do the A-B menu thing, right?
+
+[10:13] I've never had the stones to do it, but like, what if you passed out two menus at the same time, right? Different tables, different names, and see which one sells more. Right? Sounds you do it for like a week. So, like, for instance, I know for a fact that I have said this on the air a million times, we changed the name of one of our drinks, sold five times as many.
+
+[10:36] Just change the name. You know what I mean? And we didn't do them at the same time, but we had it on the menu for a year. We knew what our P mix was, which means, by the way, that means like how do you describe P Mix? It's what what people are ordering.
+
+[10:47] The number of each unit you sell, P mix. And um like like literally five times more. Mm-hmm. Just because then it's wild. Yeah.
+
+[10:56] Yeah. So I don't know. Maybe maybe squimps are hard to make and s squinks or whatever they are. Squinkies. Squimps.
+
+[11:03] Yeah. So maybe squimps maybe squimps are hard to make so they don't want to make that many of them. So they're like, we're gonna call them turd burgers. You know what I mean? That's wild.
+
+[11:10] Yeah. That that's why you need to have it on the menu for those people who know but you don't actually want to make it. You know what I mean? You're but you're you're forgetting the name of the restaurant is Squirrel too. So it kind of I eat squirrel the the name yeah.
+
+[11:23] I mean I eat squirrel. Squirrel's delicious. I I meant the the SQ of it all I get it's an SQ SQ friendly house. Yeah yeah. I mean if you if you eat meat you should eat squirrel.
+
+[11:36] Squirrel's good you know I mean I've never had squirrel it's just mild. Oh dry up it's good. It's fine. I don't know it feels like it's gonna be tough. I've only ever had it in stew.
+
+[11:45] It's usually like hacked up in a stew. It feels like it's gonna be mild tough they're like running around jumping around on trees and stuff. Yeah. Yeah I guess and they're always wild there's no farm raised squirrel that I know of. Yeah.
+
+[11:56] You know what I mean? Not yet. No not yet. You know what I've never eaten but I hear tastes good? Muskrat.
+
+[12:04] Yeah I'm okay. Yeah they're so ugly to look at beaver's delicious Nastasi and I had beaver it was delicious. Anyway. So Stas, what do you got for me? Um I saw Harold and Ellie in San Francisco.
+
+[12:18] Yeah. Um and how was that? I wish you it was fine. Ellie finally came out and asked us why we do the things that we do, which was rough to have to sealed. Yeah, because uh as as people who know us know, we have no idea.
+
+[12:34] Like, why do we do half the things? So Nastasia and I made a Vincent Price candle. And you ask, why? Nastasia, what's the answer? Don't know.
+
+[12:45] Don't know. We have no idea. We she bought a Vincent Price sweater. All Vincent Price. Why?
+
+[12:51] We don't know. Vincent Price did a cookbook way back in the day. Yeah, there'll be social media on it anyway. But I'm gonna say this. I'm gonna call you out.
+
+[12:58] Nastasia Lopez very nicely, very nicely, sends me this cake that we didn't have a chance to try when we were out in LA. And I she said, My mom's birthday is tomorrow, which was yesterday. Uh tell me if the cake's good, because I'll get her one. And I, because I had it on family dinner. Now, Nastasia, it's shipped out on like uh like a Thursday, shows up at my house on a Friday, frozen or shipped on Wednesday or Thursday, gold billy, comes over to my house across the country from LA to New York.
+
+[13:26] It's cold. I stick it immediately in the fridge. Left it in the fridge till I tasted it on Sunday. I'm like, it's good, not great. Now, this cake is the cake that Tom Cruise sends to everyone at the holidays or whenever he wants.
+
+[13:40] But the way he sends it is he puts it on his private, he gets someone to run it from the bakery, which is Doan's bakery outside of LA, from the bakery to his private jet. He private jets it to your location, has a messenger go to the private jet and takes it directly to you. So never been never been frozen. And I mistakenly said Nastasia that I thought it was good, not great. Then I didn't put it back in the fridge.
+
+[14:02] I let it warm up. I had another piece the next day. So this is like four days after it was made. This is now five or six days after it is made. And it's pretty good.
+
+[14:10] It's a white chocolate coconut bunch. So I'm gonna upgrade my rating from you guys. Let me get some. This is the Tom. This is the Tom Cruise.
+
+[14:17] Let me get a fork cake. I just noticed you have bread on your hat. This is quite interesting since we were just talking about catch. Yeah. This is uh swag from Flower City in Rochester.
+
+[14:28] So if anyone is up in the Rochester area and there's near that like uh market area near where they'll I guess it's near the old train depot stuff, near Cure, uh stop by Flower City. Let me know how it is. But uh yeah, I wear the bread hat a lot and people won't drive for 80 miles for bread, but we'll we'll we'll we'll collect a hat 80 miles. They have another something from 80 miles away. They have another hat that says biscuit.
+
+[14:52] Would you travel for a biscuit? No. No. What kind of biscuit? An English biscuit or America?
+
+[14:58] That means a cookie, right? To you, a biscuit's a cookie. To an American, I mean that's another thing. It's like uh yeah. I mean, I will point out India.
+
+[15:05] This was for fun too, but we did drive all the way to Owen Owensboro, Kentucky for land barbecue. We did, yeah, but that's an experience. That's true. How was the land barbecue? It was delicious.
+
+[15:17] That's very good. Yeah. Stopped at Permantis in Pittsburgh and Skylined Chili and some stuff. You can go to uh there's a place in the in uh, what is that? That's not that that is the next time you're in Pittsburgh, I'll give you some recs for places to go that aren't the quote unquote place where all the tourists go.
+
+[15:33] Yeah. How was the sandwich at Pramont? It was fine. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[15:36] Fine. I was in Kentucky, right? No, that one was in Pittsburgh. Oh, okay. Pittsburgh.
+
+[15:41] Well, but you know, that Pennsylvania. Yeah. So you gotta like because it's the edge of Pennsylvania. It's the far. I actually like Pittsburgh quite a bit.
+
+[15:47] Yeah. I don't know. I didn't mind Pittsburgh. The beer was good in Kentucky though. Yeah, no good time there, yeah.
+
+[15:52] You weren't like all all whiskey all the time. It was like whiskey beer. Yeah, I had one beer, and I was uh, you know, I was like, the hot brown, I think. Yeah. Kentucky Hot Brown.
+
+[16:02] That's pretty good. Did you do a ham thing last time? I was only in Kentucky once and I had to ate nothing but ham. No, no, we didn't have any ham. You bought a whole leg.
+
+[16:10] Oh, that's right. I did buy a whole leg. Yeah, yeah. Whose? Broadbent, I think.
+
+[16:14] They're good. Yeah, yeah, they were good. Yeah, I forgot about that. Gotta go, gotta go get a newsomes. Gotta get Nancy Mahathy's ham.
+
+[16:19] Yeah. Yeah. Next time. Yeah, next time. You're never gonna go to Kentucky again.
+
+[16:25] But you're kidding, dude. All right. Uh so uh what else? So what what's the verdict on Nastasia's cake that she sent, the Tom Cruise cake. It's it's delicious.
+
+[16:35] Yeah? It's pretty good. It's a good cake. What do you think? I haven't had it yet.
+
+[16:39] You're chumped. You chumped me twice. First, you don't get ham in Kentucky, and now you don't even eat the cake. So I should have told her to get one for her mom. And it's okay.
+
+[16:51] I can get another one. I made a mistake. I mean, imagine if imagine if she got it the day she that was baked. Okay. This was shipped across the freaking country, frozen, put in my fridge, and then cut, you know, I cut it on Sunday.
+
+[17:05] It's Tuesday now. Have some grace for the cake. Okay. Yeah. With that context, it is very good cake.
+
+[17:11] Son of a gun. And you know, look. Oh, I know what I want to say about that before we move on. Is that Tom Cruise was apparently told about this cake from Diane Keaton. Rest in peace.
+
+[17:22] Now, interesting story about this. I don't know whether Keen Peel knew Diane Keaton, but in one of my favorite Key and Peel skits, prepare for Terry's, Peel, who they they have crazy haircuts. It's like this is one of my favorite Keen Peel sketches. He goes, We'll be eating like Diane Keaton. And I just thought it was a random rhyme, but maybe Diane Keaton had like a series.
+
+[17:45] I know she liked canned green beans, which is weird because I looked up her food proclivities after I learned this fact. She liked canned green beans. I have a crank green bean drink on the menu now. Non-alcoholic. Which is quite popular.
+
+[17:55] But maybe she was some sort of like food savant who knew like all the good places to buy cake. We'll never know. Probably not, yeah. I'll never meet Tom Cruise to ask him. There you go.
+
+[18:06] I mean, you know what I mean? That's not my thing. All right. Uh all right. So I wrap my week into Nastasia's week and blah blah blah.
+
+[18:14] And uh, as you know, we don't know why we're doing anything. So uh I guess we should do a brief bio for people that don't know. So you've cooked, you're an inter you're an intercontinental cookist here. You started in uh London, then or France. You went to France before were you cooking professionally in London before you went to France and then went back to London?
+
+[18:33] So London, yeah, then France, you Spain, I forgot the Spain, and then US, and then you went back to London for a while. Back to London, and then back here. All right. Exactly, yeah. So all over the place.
+
+[18:45] Now, uh uh, I read that you cooked for a while in sc in Scotland, yes? Yeah, so I have family uh my dad's from Scotland, so I have family up there, so uh I wanted to spend some time up there, so I just uh went to a butcher and learned how to break down some meat. Yeah. So what's the well, like it's is when you're breaking down local meat? Yeah, local meat, yeah.
+
+[19:03] Is breaking down a highland cow cow different from breaking down a different kind of cow? No. No? No, it's the same. They taste any different.
+
+[19:09] Yeah, I mean, it tastes it tastes fresher, you know, cooks nice. Yeah. Yeah. There's weird, they're so big and weird looking. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[19:17] Furry, red, weird horned things. Well, those you don't, we don't really kill those. Oh no? No, those are left. Those are left alone.
+
+[19:25] That's the only animal that's like out there freely. So um because you're raising regular beef cows, and then those highland cows, they're just like kind of window dressing. Yeah, they're like they're like, you know, national treasure. You don't mess with them. You don't just you don't walk up with a captive bolt gun to one of those things with like pow.
+
+[19:44] No, no. How do they sl uh do the do they how do they slaughter it in England by the way? Or in Scotland? I think same as here. Really?
+
+[19:50] We don't use captive bolt anymore, do we? Oh. Because like it used to be we would use so it used to be we would use like you know the the no country for old men on them. But uh someone found that it drives brain tissue, it can drive brain tissue past the blood brain barrier because of the force of the of the hit. And so with uh with the mad cow stuff, they got rid of the captive bull stuff.
+
+[20:14] I don't know how they do it in that. I don't know what the technique for artisanal stunning is these days. You know, they've gone back to the old fashioned sledge, which is not pleasant. It's not pleasant. Not not pleasant, or like it's just a 22 or something, you know what I mean?
+
+[20:28] Anyway, uh, did you break down uh lamb? Yeah, so lamb lamb's a big one, venison's a big one. Um so you know you know what I'm gonna ask you, or not? What's that? Do you like haggis?
+
+[20:39] And if so, do you have any tips? Oh I used to eat a lot of haggis when I was a kid because my gran like she would sh she loved it, so she would give it to me when I was a kid. Scottish shy grandmother? Yeah, yeah, Scottish grandma. So um, yeah, she was a nanny, so she would like cook for me and like you know, look after me.
+
+[20:57] So you know, we would we would we would eat it, you know, from the the chip shop, the fish and chip shop, you'll get in haggis and chips, you know. It was pretty good, but um, yeah, you get older, and I I guess I just kind of realized what it was, and it freaked me out a little bit. So I I eat less and less of it. But whenever I go home and see her in Scotland, I she always gives it to me, and I I I I just enjoy it to make her happy. I oh I love haggis.
+
+[21:14] I think it's delicious. But when you have it at a quote unquote chip shop, we would call them fries, they serve it also with mashed potatoes and turnips. Is it still nibs and tatties plus fries? Or that's more of a home thing or a restaurant thing, like at the chip shop, you'll just have it with like chips, maybe some gravy or something. Uh-huh.
+
+[21:37] Yeah. When you we when like uh do you ever do it where you mold all three into one and then like like unmould it? That's how I had it a couple times like that. It was like almost like they put it into the whole Megilla, like all three layers were put into like a pint container. And I think they just had it in there, like they had it like in a steam table or some crap.
+
+[21:55] That's wild. And then I was like, Oh, I have the haggis, nips and tatties, and they're like yeah, no, I haven't, I've just had it in like the casing. You just like cut it open and it just uh does its thing. Do you really think the casing's necessary, or could you just make like an like an oatmeal and like and like offal and meat like kind of mix in a brick format and do it like scrapple? I think if we did like first of all, no one here eats scrapple anyway.
+
+[22:18] So for those of you that don't know what scrapple is, scrapple is like pork and parts and cornmeal. So it's like, you know, Scottish scrapple, you know what I mean? But like if there's gotta be a way to sell it because it's a delicious product. I feel you could make slabable haggis. We do it.
+
+[22:35] We do it. Last time I went went um back to see my gran in Scotland, we had it. Um and you it's usually served with breakfast. So you'll like have like a fry up with eggs and sausages and like black pudding, and then you'll have like a little little patty of it. Um so yeah, that's part of Scottish breakfast, yes.
+
+[22:51] I like that you do the the blood pudding and the haggis. Yeah, I'm not a big blood pudding person. I always give it to my dad whenever it comes on the plate, and I'm in Scotland with him. I always like hand it over to him because he loves it. You know who loves uh blood sausage is your boy John.
+
+[22:59] Yeah, I'm not surprised. So in s in Scotland, I forget how they do it. How much lightning do they add to the to blood? What's the filler over there? What do you mean?
+
+[23:14] Like it's not like straight, it's not like super black and dense, right? It's like more oh, the black pudding. Yeah. It's got some filler in it, right? Yeah, there's like there's like ground pork and like sage and you know.
+
+[23:25] John likes it as bloody as it can get. Yeah, he likes this filler-free. What? Nice and minerally. I like it.
+
+[23:32] That's minerally. Like half half a vampire. I guess, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[23:38] I saw um, there was a you know, like I I read a lot of old books, and I can't remember what book it's in, but it stuck with me since I was a kid. I opened this book and it was about food all over the world, and there's this kid, I don't even remember where he's from, but he was drinking goat blood, and the blood was running down the sides of his mouth. Yeah. And I was like, no. And like for some reason, like that kind of turned me off to straight blood eating.
+
+[24:00] So like I'll eat if someone hands me like the congealed pork blood stuff, I'll be like, I'll eat it. But I'm not like, yay. You know what I mean? No, no. And if you're not if you're not like yay, why would you eat it?
+
+[24:11] True. True, true. Also, and it's again unpopular, uh, like things that are too hard, like too. I love awful, but like sometimes if it's served in huge quantities without the right sauces, like tripe with like no kind of tomato or acid, and it smells like slaughterhouse. Yeah, you know, or smells like you're cutting meat, and I can't, I can't, you know what I mean?
+
+[24:36] Or like um, what's the other one? Now some of them, like like a kidney that hasn't been like properly like kidneyed. You know what I mean? There was a sausage that I had when I was in France, and it was like it literally smelled like poop. The le the Lyonnaise?
+
+[24:44] Oh andouette, yeah. It freaked me out, and the whole kitchen would like smell like like poop everywhere. Yeah. It was awful. And it was like you had to work in the kitchen while this thing is just and people ordered it.
+
+[25:02] I I couldn't believe when they first cut into it, I couldn't believe what I was looking at. Yeah. For those of you that don't know, imagine you're like, oh, that's the casing of the sausage, and then you cut a little bit into it and you're like, oh, there's another cake. There's a there's a yeah, but uh, and there's like no filling. And the smell, and the smell is awful.
+
+[25:21] I'll tell you this though. You know what is delicious is that style with chicken skin, just chicken skin, all rolled up. That's delicious. I believe that, yeah. That's delicious.
+
+[25:31] But like intestine done that way is not. I had it, I wanted to have it. For years I wanted to have it. I went to a very reputable shaky in uh and got it, like a Lyonnaise one, and I was like, because that's where it's from. And I was like, oh, this sucks.
+
+[25:50] Yeah, hated it. Not not not ideal. No, not ideal. That's a not order again. You would I would I would drive 80 miles to not have it.
+
+[25:59] Yeah. Imagine if you're on a date and someone is eating that. Poop breath. Like they're just pounding it. They're like, oh, I see they have the Lyonnaise andouette.
+
+[26:11] My favorite. Like, I'm gonna call it a night. Yeah, I think I believe. It's really of so funny. Is there any other like like big hates or no?
+
+[26:21] Um, I've I've I've prepped my sh my fair share of grouse on the ground. You know, but in in in the UK is game season's big, so grouse, pheasants, uh, pheasants. I like the taste of pheasants, but I worked in this one restaurant where we used to butcher them in the outdoor kitchen. We had an outdoor kitchen, and it was just like the warm like guts and stuff, and it just like it yeah, it threw me off the smell, it threw me off the taste a little bit. And in the UK, they still hang them high or no, they still get them all stinky, yeah.
+
+[26:49] Stinky. So Nastasia still has not forgiven me for a meal we had at Hicks in London where I ordered, they had the the game tasting, and it was like woodcock and grouse and all this stuff. I like woodcock. Yeah, and but like you know, I was spitting the BBs and like I was like chewing on the bones, and like little pieces of like in like intestine and blood were like flicked onto her face. She's you're still mad about it, right, Stas?
+
+[27:14] Oh yeah. What was worse? That or having to sit through the non-lunch at the citrus joint. Non-lunch, not lunch. Nastasia went with me on this trip.
+
+[27:26] We were blessed to have more citrus varieties than anyone has ever tasted, other than people who own citrus collections. All she can remember is that the lunch sucked. Because it we didn't know we were gonna have lunch, so we didn't bring lunch. So they were having lunch but not giving us lunch. That's weird.
+
+[27:42] We also had a lunatic there who told us that salt was now illegal in New York kitchens. This was Bloomberg era. And I was like, you know, I was just in a professional kitchen like two days ago, and guess what we used? All the salt. Salt.
+
+[27:56] Remember that, Stas? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He also collected old mercury's, I think chopped mercury's the car, wood blocks, and weird CDs.
+
+[28:09] Weird dude. Rich. Helps to be rich. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm.
+
+[28:13] Okay. So uh sorry. Uh Scotland. All right. So then we're gonna run out of time, so we should fast forward.
+
+[28:19] Because we got we had 30 minutes. What do you want to talk about from your story? I'm I although I haven't I've maybe met you like once or twice. I've had your food because I used to eat at Nomad, which was delicious. You were cooking it Nomad and then We went to Crown Shy once for your birthday.
+
+[28:31] We cooked at Crown Shy. And you were probably cooking at Crown Shy at that time. Because pretty soon I was how did Crown Shy get so many famous people to eat there? It was like you guys had so the table next to us, it was Nastasia, John, and myself. The table next to us was uh someone I don't remember sitting with Chris Rock and Rashida Jones, and one of those suckers gave me COVID.
+
+[28:56] Now hold up, hold up. I'm not blaming Rashida. I'm gonna blame Chris Rock on this. This was right after he got slapped. Yeah.
+
+[29:02] It was like right after the slap. So like everyone everyone was like, who slapped. And I was like, no, forget the slap. COVID. Dude gave me COVID.
+
+[29:10] Yeah, I mean, you must have been sitting pretty close. Unless he was just like coughing out there. I don't know. We were at we were at the we were at like one of the banquet tables, like over like you walk in, you go all the way to the back, slightly to the right, bank like in the back. I think it was there was like John was sitting uh uh with his back against the window area.
+
+[29:27] I was Nastasia was next to me, and I was in a chair facing like back here. So like I guess like I was catching the Chris Rock spray coming over my shoulder. You know what I mean? Because they were in the they were on a table, like a freestanding table next to me. It must have been them.
+
+[29:42] Had to have been. No. Only explanation. I'm not gonna blame the explanation. I'm not gonna blame the server.
+
+[29:47] That would be dumb. There was like probably like three hundred covers that day. But yeah, but yeah. Yeah, it could have been a story too, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[29:54] No. No. No, yeah. Sticking the free yeah, so like do you think like they because of like the nomad connection, how like how is it because fight, I guess fight eyes a thing now, right? Like Yeah, it's become a thing.
+
+[30:14] Yeah, because uh it's just it was shocking to me, like how many, how like what percentage of very fancy folks was down there. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, I think I think also, you know, just like uh James and who was and you know, he he listened to a lot of like RB and rap music, and we had you know pictures of like Biggie and all these artists on the wall. So I think that made a difference too.
+
+[30:37] That was like very much part of the theme. Um so we'd have like really interesting characters come through for sure. Um I I think based off of that. But you know, also James is just like great, he's a great character. Well, I know you think music's important, and I don't have any control over the music of my place.
+
+[30:53] My well, because like really like I I was brought in, so my bar place is bar contra and Jeremiah and Fat Fabian had it as Contra, the restaurant, and Jeremiah always did the playlist, and he has very like particular opinions about like what should be on the playlist from his point of view. And you know, at the end of the day, it's his place. You know what I mean? Like I'm like quote unquote an owner there, and I do the bar stuff, but it's like you know, he that's his call, so but the issue also is that like it doesn't change up enough. Like I'm a huge believer in that it's very hard because if your floor staff hates the fact that they've heard the same playlist and fifty eight times, they hate it.
+
+[31:40] You know what I mean? I agree. We what we uh when I was in saga, we would, you know, listen to the the playlist from the dining room because it's all kind of one space. And I knew at certain times what ty like what certain music, what time it was. I knew where we were in the day based off of the songs.
+
+[31:58] It can drive you a little bit crazy. Yeah. And my my theory, see what you think. My theory is that like 'cause like one old school like restaurateur like mentality is well, who cares? Who cares what the staff thinks?
+
+[32:10] It's about the it's about the guests. But if if the staff is bent because they hear the same stuff, then they have that little edge and then that rubs off onto the guests. That's what I think. I think what the staff thinks matters most. Yeah.
+
+[32:22] Well, so is your back of house nice? 'Cause I like I like I wanted to talk once. I don't know if we ever brought it up. You go to these restaurants, it's all nice. And very few exceptions, as soon as you're in like the back of house office, it's a freaking hellhole nightmare, like terrible place to be.
+
+[32:36] I don't like that. Yeah. I I I'm I'm anti like, you know, aggression. I think it's like there's times where I'm like, let's go, we gotta hurry up. Like I'm like and give give people a push, but like for the most part, I think what's important is to run the kitchen with respect rather than fear.
+
+[32:54] You know, if people fear you and they're just doing it for fear, you're not gonna have you're gonna have a lot of turnover. Yeah. But I also mean like no one spends money on the amenities behind. Like, even if you're nice, you know what I mean? It's like the kitchen's bright, but it's always like a little bit beat, a little bit a little bit dingy.
+
+[33:11] Yeah, yeah. Ergonomics are never what you need to be because you spend all your money front of house, back of house, you spend money on equipment, but you don't spend money on like Yeah. You know, you're like, Oh, I can either make this place a little bit nicer to work or I can get the rationale I want. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[33:28] And what do you choose? I mean, you know, I like to spend money on the kitchen. You know, lucky for me, it's like, you know, I think we designed do we design a kit we design the restaurant really, really well. And, you know, when we need to spend money on the kitchen, I do. I like, you know, I'm a chef, so I spend money where we need to spend money.
+
+[33:45] If the rationale is broken and we need the rationale, we're gonna get a rationale, you know. I mean, like, there's been a couple of kitchens I've been to. I haven't been to your kitchen yet. I would love to see it. Uh, but there's been a couple of kitchens I went to where it's like, I can't believe how much money they spent on making this like a chef's paradise.
+
+[34:00] WD50 was that way. Oh, yeah, I don't remember. You know, I mean, like all of the mate, like all of the I'm sure no I didn't ever go into the kitchen at Nomad. I'm sure it was nice. It's huge.
+
+[34:08] Yeah, was it nice? Very nice. Yeah, you know. I've been in the kitchen at EMP, obviously nice. You know what I mean?
+
+[34:13] But like, it's so hard because it costs so much money to make things. Yeah, it is. I think there's a fine, there's a you know, there's a balance, you know. I think I don't mind a kitchen that's a little bit gritty when it comes to like, you know, you kind of have to hustle a little bit. I don't I I personally don't like super large kitchens.
+
+[34:32] I think things get missed. You know, when we built the space, we I like I wanted it to be a smaller kitchen. You know, it's just like you see everything, you taste everything, nothing goes amiss. I've worked in a lot of big kitchens and things just slip, you know. How many covers are you doing?
+
+[34:48] Um, so we're doing, you know, today we're doing like a hundred and twenty covers. On the weekend, we have a hundred and fifty covers upstairs and about a hundred downstairs, sometimes a hundred and twenty. On on Saturday last week, we just did a hundred and fifty covers upstairs and then a buyout. So like we have some buy-outs throughout the week. You like buyouts?
+
+[35:09] I mean it's easy. It's like, you know. I love the money and the fact that it's easy. I hate it because it ruins it for it depends. It depends on how big you are.
+
+[35:16] If you have room to take all of your regulars and you're not shutting your front door, it's fine. But like at like whenever like uh one of the bars would have a uh a buyout and I had to turn people away, we were already small enough, and like you have to put that sign on the front door that says sorry, you can't come. I was always like, oh yeah. I mean, that sucks. That definitely sucks because we, you know, I'm always like, Oh, have you seen the bar downstairs?
+
+[35:39] Like when I go and talk to guests and that. Um, but yeah, I mean, that's very disappointing. But when it comes to execution, it's nice because we have a whole different menu downstairs. So, like to take a minute to just pause and have one person just send the party from uh from our area downstairs, is it it gives the team a chance to risk reset a little bit and focus on one part of the restaurant, you know. Do you have to run food down the same way that the guests go down or no?
+
+[36:04] Yeah, we have we have like a prep area downstairs as well, so we kind of sometimes execute from down there. But yeah. Yeah, and but like uh you like you can you and you can so therefore you can also send things down if you want if you want to fluff someone out downstairs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We love fluffing people out.
+
+[36:18] Do you are you a believer old school? Here's an old school question for you. Are you a believer in like uh you have to like do like minor fluffs to the table? If you're gonna really blow one table out, you have to kind of minorly the tables around them, so they're not like what the hell? Yeah, I think I if I you know, people come in and excited about the restaurant, they're fit about the space.
+
+[36:38] You know, there's people that are like, oh, I've seen it on Instagram, I've seen on TikTok, you know. It's like I think um I think when you have those conversations with people and they're generally excited, yeah. I like to, you know, fluff it up a little bit. Um, but that's through connection, you know. I think people that are there, you know, to have a quick bite and leave, like that's not, you know, I don't think it's not to hell with them.
+
+[36:59] Anyway, uh it's not true. You know what, on the other hand, like for restaurants one thing, but in bars, like there's so many like people who are genuinely interested, but they're still one and done. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[37:10] Cause, you know, they're only in New York for two nights and they want to try umpty ump million places. Exactly. You know what I mean? Can't hate on them. Okay.
+
+[37:17] Uh and one thing I know I want to ask before we get into the specifics of here is that 'cause I don't talk to a lot of people who have done like l lot of professional cooking, both UK and here. I'm curious about the economics of it. For a working cook, not you know, not an owner, not a sh chef owner, like are the economics wildly different in what you make here versus there, the livability of the job? Yeah, for sure. You know, uh when I was back home, um it's you know, I think that's what shocked me the most when I first came here.
+
+[37:46] Someone was like, Oh, you start at two PM. I was like, Well, two PM, that's crazy. I was like every day. And they were like, Yeah, I was like, okay. Um, 'cause, you know, back home I work I spent, you know, ten years working in in in in Europe and London and all these places and for the most part I was working sixteen, seventeen, sometimes you know, eighteen hours a day, sleeping three hours a day.
+
+[38:07] And I did that for a very long time. And we all got paid salary. Whereas here everyone everyone is an hourly employee. That's like a cook. Um so yeah, it's different as a cook, even a first-time cook, like you're going in there as a chef to party, demi chef de party, commie, whatever.
+
+[38:26] You're all paid salary. So a lot of restaurants still open for lunch. Um and you'll be doing lunch service, like prep at eight in the morning, seven in the morning, then you'll do lunch service from twelve till 2:30, and then you'll be open again at five thirty, six o'clock for dinner service, and then you're done at one in the morning. Um, so yeah. But in terms of the actual money you take home, I mean not the punishing schedule, but in terms of the actual money you take home, which place is more livable.
+
+[38:55] I would say here is probably a bit more livable. I think there are some some benefits, like for example, back home, uh every every like fine dining restaurant, they have 21% gratuity that gets split between the entire team. So when it's busier, you make more money. So if you're working the busier days, you make more money in the kitchen, get split by the bar team, the service team, the kitchen team, everyone porters, everything. Um, so that's nice for sure.
+
+[39:20] But I think the I think the general salary is higher here. You're uh management's also allowed to take the service stuff in the UK, right? Aren't they? The laws aren't as hardcore as they are. I mean, here the laws are like serious.
+
+[39:35] If you break those laws here, like you're gonna get tagged. Yeah, I think so. I can't remember. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+[39:41] So I know for front of house, I don't understand. So it's one of the interesting things in terms of like bar programs that I'm working with now. You can't, there's certain things you can't do here because the hourly is too high to and they're not salary. So, like, you know, if if I know that like an hour, it's gonna take an hour's worth of this person's time to make a liter of this product. I'm like, all right, well, that's a lot of money that I can't afford.
+
+[40:06] And so that I don't know because there's a lot of people in the UK doing things that I know in bar programs are not time cost effective. But I guess if you're salaried, you're just burning them out. You're just gonna light you're just gonna light that light their bodies on fire, is what you're doing. So you what this is like what you're saying to me makes me think that that is what they're in fact they're doing. They're lighting like young people's bodies on fire and like letting them burn.
+
+[40:28] Cause like you here, you couldn't do that stuff. You know what I mean? No. I you know, I think I think from a b business perspective, you know, the labor is is is very straightforward. Like it, you know, you know exactly how many people you need, you know exactly how much you can spend.
+
+[40:43] Here is like as an as a as an owner of a restaurant, like you have to manage it accordingly. You know, it's like a lot more of a juggle. Yeah. Um, because you gotta figure out exactly what you need on the management, you need on those on the hourly employees and how much time you need, spread of hours, overtime, all that stuff. So yeah.
+
+[41:01] I mean, the thing I that I hate most, one of the things I hate most about our industry here is that you know, depending on which shifts you have, if you're hourly, you don't know what you're gonna make at the end of the day. You know what I mean? And your rent you know, your landlord doesn't charge you less if the restaurant didn't pull. You know what I mean? It's like yeah, I agree.
+
+[41:19] I mean, but that's you know, I I think when I was a cook, is like when I needed more hours, I like push myself to be like, you know, to be a strong person in that kitchen, so they're like need me for stuff, you know? Yeah. Um that's kind of what I you know, how I saw it when I was a cook. I was like, all right, I need to make sure that like I get all this stuff done and like, you know, in kind of like show these people that I can manage all of this stuff, and then you know, they'll just give me more time, more more. So you've been you've been cooking what now, like 20 something years, right?
+
+[41:49] You like you said, because you're 19. 19. Yeah. Yeah. So like and like I was, you know, listening to some of your interviews, and very much it seems that you always had owners's mentality.
+
+[42:01] I have this discussion with my wife all the time, right? So, like, you know, people, when she was very young, she always had owners's mentality. I mean, she's an architect, not in our business, but and so what that meant was is that she always went the extra mile. Like I've heard, you know, you said you used to draw out the station so that you know exactly how the stations were set up so that if somebody dropped dead you could walk in and just work their station. Or call in sick, you know, which is the same thing, let's be honest.
+
+[42:26] Uh back then. So uh but you know um is that rarer now? Like it's like I know that culturally it's not it's not cool to ask people to want to have kind of owner's mentality when they come in, but how are you going to make the next crew of owners if they don't have it? Yeah I think you know I I don't it's not the same for everyone. You know I think certain people want to do certain stuff and and see certain things.
+
+[42:48] I you know I don't think everyone wants to open a restaurant. I don't think everyone wants to own a business like I think that's changed. You know I I I think people have different different paths and you know I and that's okay you know um but having an owner's mentality and and I always say this as well it's like you can be an entrepreneurial person but you can also be the intrapreneur and like and like try and build within a company. You don't necessarily need to build your own company if you don't want to but yeah the mindset of like being an owner definitely helps you grow like internally and just like move forward in your career. You know I think thinking of thinking outside of I'm just doing this station today you know or it's like trying to slip something in the bin or be like you know I have all this trim.
+
+[43:35] What do I do with it? Like that's a good way to think about it. You know let me ask you this is it right because like you always, like, as you know, when you're training people, right? It's when people have that when they're young and they have that kind of mentality where they're asking you questions and like you know, making sure that everything's right and going that extra mile, it's hard not to like them more. Yeah.
+
+[44:02] You know what I mean? But the thing is, on one hand, I think that's not kind of okay, because it should be okay for someone to just come in and clock their hours. Be good at their job, clock their hours. Yeah, I agree. GTFO and like do their thing.
+
+[44:15] Like that should be okay too. So I think it's like a weird balance to strike, not to not to play favorites. It's hard. No, I think, you know, a lot of people are like, oh, manage everyone the same. You shouldn't manage everyone the same.
+
+[44:27] You know, it's like people want different things. You know, one of my sous chefs wants this and the other source chef wants that. And like, you know, I think it's good great to have open conversation about what you want and then kind of, you know, give goals and set goals to like get to where this this person wants to be. Um, you also said very early, you knew you wanted to be a sh like a chef as opposed to just I want to cook. I mean, like that's the that's the thing.
+
+[44:49] I think do you think most people make up their mind earlier, or most people in some quasi, they have no idea what they want, kind of a situation and they just kind of flounder around. As career-wise or as a career-wise. 'Cause I mean being like wanting to be a chef is very different. If you want to be a chef, you better have that owner's mentality. Yeah.
+
+[45:05] How the hell are you gonna do it otherwise? You know what I mean? Yeah. But if what you want to just do be as a monster cook, that's good too. Yeah what I mean.
+
+[45:12] I agree. I agree. But like, do you think that uh like most people that you see make up their mind after like a couple it sounded like you knew from the jump that you wanted to do that because you were like taking all these notes and doing all of these things, or at least it was some spark was in there that was making you learn more than the average person. You know what I mean? Yeah.
+
+[45:31] But do you think most people are like that in that if they're gonna do it, they start early that way? No, I think sometimes it develops over time. You know, I think I think I think it it goes both ways. Like sometimes people go into not really, you know, to do it as a job, and then they end up loving it and they end up wanting to, you know, put their own food, put do their own restaurant, own their own business, or whatever. Um and then there's people that go in there with their heads saying, I'm gonna open a restaurant one day, I'm gonna own this catering company, I'm gonna do this.
+
+[45:59] And then halfway through they're like, yeah, I think uh I think I'm good for now, you know. So it goes both ways. Right. You brought up an interesting middle ground that I hadn't considered like they don't want to have they want to grow within a company. Actually love that crew when you're having a place and like you know this person, you know they're clean, you know they're fast, you know they're a monster, you know they get along with everyone, you know they just crank.
+
+[46:19] And what they want to do is do that and go home. And you know what? God bless those people. Yeah, you know what I mean? Full respect.
+
+[46:26] Yeah, you know what I mean? Like never any drama, just yeah, good, consistent chunk, chunk, chunk, chunk, chunk, chunk, chunk. You know what I mean? Yeah, for sure. But then you need someone like you over that person to put the mental input in because they just don't they don't want to do the dev work.
+
+[46:42] Well, yeah, there's a there's a visionary and then there's the execution, yeah. So you know, they have to work with each other. All right, so let's talk about in the 13 minutes and six seconds that we have left. Let's talk about uh actually opening a place, fine finance opening a place. So when you wanted to, you were still you were were you at Crown Shire or Saga?
+
+[47:03] You were at Saga, right? I was at Saga, yeah. Yeah, you're at Saga, and you ha you had you hadn't told Chef yet that you were gonna go, but you had started the kind of wheels rolling. So you decided to do your own thing, but you partnered up with uh someone who you knew from the EMP nomad, Alex, uh, I'm gonna get their name, Pfaffenbach. Great name.
+
+[47:24] A lot of Fs and Ps. Fantastic. So uh, and you said to someone, I forget who that you thought it was important, like the first time out to start with a partner. Now, Alex, though, is a business partner, but not a money partner, right? No, just business, just me and him.
+
+[47:41] Yeah. So here's something that I I know I have found is that the pie, no matter how big the restaurant is, the pie isn't as big as you think it is. The money pie that you can extract out of a place is not as big as people think it is. No matter how much you're charging your guests, like it's hard to extract. So I know for a fact, like the last place I opened existing conditions, we had our money partner who was the full money who went in, right?
+
+[48:10] Greg Bohm. Then we had I had two cre with two creative partners. It was Don and myself. We were both supposed to be working. I mean, things happen, but we were kind of also extracting money, right?
+
+[48:21] Because there's management. So there's only so many extractive people you can have in a thing. So you're working, right? So if you're working, then you can pull the money that you would get from having actually doing labor at the restaurant. Yeah.
+
+[48:36] But if you're not, it's kind of hard, right? Because the more partners you bring in, the finer that pie is sliced up. And then if you as an owner, especially a creative person, if you're gonna o go open two and three other places where you can't cook every day, but you still have to put in so many hours of like dev and putting stuff on top, it gets difficult when you have multiple partners, does it not, in terms of it getting the money out that you need? Yeah, I mean, you know, we w we were quite strategic, you know, with ours. Um, we also put our own money in it as well.
+
+[49:05] We we we worked together on uh something else where we kind of consulted. So we so we were able to like put uh put ourselves in there as well, as like um part of the investment. But yeah, I think you know, we split up between a fair um amount of people, and you know, we we started off uh in a brand new building. So that's nice. Yeah, so it was a brand new building.
+
+[49:28] So we were we were given TI to like kind of start the project, it was really, really important. Um so that helped just like build the construction and like build a first gen space, you know, as opposed to just like going in there designing it and moving some stuff around. We had to like really build from the ground up. Um you found the space and built the concept around the space? Because like how how did you start?
+
+[49:50] Yeah, so we were looking for we were getting our reps in and just like looking at spaces, you know, not necessarily spaces we wanted to you know pursue, but we were just looking to just like get the feel and get an understanding of the conversations we need to have and blah blah blah blah. Um, and we and then Alex was working for quality brandy at that time, and he was introduced to the owner of the building who came to the space, um, who brought him to the space, and Alex was like, listen, I really want to do this, this, this, and then this with it. And it was like he wanted to do like a bar, like a sports bar situation, and I was just like, he was like, All right, let's be partners, like 505 partners. And I was just like, Um, I I'm not feeling it. I was like, I'm not in.
+
+[50:33] I was like, I'm sorry, I love you, but I'm out. Um, and then we found the owner told us that there was a space downstairs. I think they were they wanted to do like a bike room or something for the building, and it was directly under it. And then um we got like extra space for the kitchen and blah blah, and it just like expanded into like something that was more than just this one room. Um, and then he was like, All right, please like come back.
+
+[50:58] Like I really want to do this. And at that point, I thought I was, you know, just gonna go out and try something on my own and like figure out. But then he was like, come on, let's let's look at this place. There's more like spaces in it, and blah blah blah. And we looked at it and I was like, all right, I was like, yeah, I'm feeling this now.
+
+[51:13] Like it feels like something that I can do, do something in, you know. Um, you know, I had a very straightforward like understanding of the food I wanted to cook. Um, so yeah, the sports bar, the sports bar was not in that. You know, I do love a good pub. I would love to own a pub one day, but at this specific time, I it just like wasn't.
+
+[51:31] You know what it's your first place. Not for my first hard to fight up from sports bar. Well, I I I was just in saga, like I'd you know, I'd wanted to like kind of work with like the Caribbean European vibe. So like, yeah, I wanted that to be the first, you know. You envision what you're gonna you work like 19 years in restaurants and you envision what your first restaurant's gonna be like.
+
+[51:51] And as much as I'd love to own a pub one day, yeah, that's not the first thing that I wanted to do. I kind of needed to get this bug of like um of why what I actually wanted to do first. I think that's fair, right? Because if you if you plant where is it the bad thing about the world, right? If you if your the first flag you plant is something, you know what I mean.
+
+[52:12] You can you know it's hard to go up, easier to like do something like elevated, but like at a at like a different kind of uh not I don't want to say lower, but at a less at a less hardcore execution point, you know what I mean, or less money. Yeah, less money. I also just I I didn't feel like I could be as passionate as I wanted to be, you know what I mean? So yeah, I just thought it was best to MS. Did you already have your numbers and crap worked out when you when you saw the space?
+
+[52:38] Um, so when we saw the space and we realized we wanted it, we were like, all right, let's sit down and like figure this thing out. So then we started to put it together. It's hard to to write out a plan if you haven't got space because you could go to a space that's completely different the next day and you and it's a completely different business plan, different performer. Like you need to build it around the space that you're in. That's what I think anyway.
+
+[52:59] Yeah. I mean, I know from my experience that like you can also sell yourself on a space that freaking sucks. You know what I mean? Yeah. You think it's gonna be good and it freaking sucks, and then you're toast because you're millions in and you're yeah bleeding money and yeah, yeah, for sure.
+
+[53:12] For sure. Nightmare. Yeah. Yeah. You know who knows that?
+
+[53:15] Nastasia knows that. Uh but anyway, so I know we as used to have to do it. It's like you have in your mind what you think the numbers are gonna be, all these weird back of the envelope, like you know, napkin crap that like restaurant people write out about what how the business is supposed to work. Do you believe any of that stuff by the way? Like you need to make you need to make your rent on a Saturday night.
+
+[53:36] You need to I mean all these old school things that people say. If you don't make your rent on a Saturday night, you're never gonna make it, or like you know, you need to be you need to be at this number, you need to be at this percentage. You know what I mean? It's like like you believe in all that stuff. I mean, it's true, some of it's true, like they work, but they're not really it's a guide.
+
+[53:56] It's a guide, exactly. Yeah, I mean, you know, like what we put on paper, like what me and Alex looked at and what we're doing is different, you know. It's like, but it's a great guide, you know, and it's a restaurant. When you first open a restaurant, especially, you know, I'm not a big company, I'm not like a huge restaurant group that everyone knows. I'm like this person that no one really knows, uh, you know, and it's like you know it's not gonna be easy at the beginning, and you're waiting for this moment to happen, and then so it fluctuates.
+
+[54:24] It's like up and down for a little bit, and then once you get once you're once you've clocked what you gotta get to, you start getting some more consistency, right? Is your landlord your partner? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it's like that can work either way, right?
+
+[54:39] So I have some old school, I mean it's nice because they had money, right? So if you have money, you're like you don't want your landlord to be your partner because then you know the more money you make, the more money they make instead of you making the money. But on the other hand, how are you gonna open without it? Right? If you show up, like how do you how do you walk up if it's your first place and be like, this is gonna work, crap on you?
+
+[55:00] You're like, you give them the not crap on you. You know what I mean? Like, this is gonna work, trust me, with all this cash. You know what I mean? Like, I think it's relationships, you know.
+
+[55:07] I think you know, the owner of our building is he's great, you know. I I I have a lot of respect for him, and we have a great relationship. We were out for dinner um like a week ago, and you know, I he gets really excited about you know these things that are happening and the restaurant being busy, and the people that come to the restaurant, like he loves it, you know. Um he always has like these little side, these little side projects that he loves to do and like hobbies. So I think being part of the restaurant and just seeing it busy and seeing you know what we've created and what we designed and all this is just like really excited for him.
+
+[55:41] I think that building that relationship is the most important thing for me. And is the landlord the main other money partner other than you guys, or do you have also external folks? Well, he gave they give us the TIs to like select the um the TI to like for the build-out, so like the construction and stuff like that. Um, so like the tenant improvement allowance, he gave that to us. And then we have like other partners, you know, like we meet people, you know, it's like the restaurant industry and like people that you've met throughout the years, you know, it's like other hospitality groups or owners or you know, just like people that we've met in the restaurants from working at the nomad, from working at EMP, people sitting at the tables, like uh friends of the industry, people that have s moved from restaurant to restaurant to come and eat the food, you know, it's like those are the people and the relationships that you build over time that are really really important.
+
+[56:34] And you meet people that are like if you open up a restaurant, let me know. Yeah, you know? As a chef, right, when the going is good, the going is good. But the like it I know for me, like the on the bar side, the contracts can get real thorny when the going is not good, or if you don't have the control when push comes to shove, because then you can easily get toasted, even though you're quote unquote an owner. And so, like, is there anything you would say for people to watch out for?
+
+[57:00] I mean, I know uh I've been hosed, you know, I'm sure a lot of people have been hosed, and like from the outside, things can look a lot rosier than they actually are on the inside from an actual contract point of view. By the way, contracts are only as good as your enforcement. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, I think you know, any advice for from me would be like keep it tight.
+
+[57:20] Make sure that you have soul power of of what goes on in that place, you know, keep the contract tight, spend a lot of time on it, don't rush it. Yeah. Go through it, go over it, go over it again. I know for us also, like when you're opening, I mean, maybe not in a new place, but when you're opening in an old old place, or if you don't know whether your liquor license is gonna come through on time, you can sit there and burn cash. Did you have a situation like that or a plan where like you because you how how many people did you bring with you?
+
+[57:47] Like cooks and and and like front-of-house people? Like people that worked with me before, or just like people that you knew you wanted these killers to be on your team when you opened a lot, a lot. The majority of the bar team have worked with me before. Uh I'd say about a third of the kitchen worked with me before as well. And how do you keep those people alive while you're not open yet?
+
+[58:08] You know, we it was it's I think that's a good question because we cause we were a full build out, there was a lot of hurdles and a lot of things that took a lot of time, you know, and we're like, all right, we're gonna open this month and then the next month, and it gets pushed back and it gets pushed back. And you're burning, you're burning, and then who and then how does your how does your payback work? Yeah, I mean, I think I think what was interesting was that we actually this is very funny. Sorry, we were like, all right, the gas is gonna, I know this is off, but but the gas was gonna be turned on at this time, and I already hired everyone, and we were like in uh commissary kitchen, just like working on food, and everyone learned the menu, but we were waiting for the gas to be turned on. Oh god.
+
+[58:49] So we were like prepping ahead to like so we could, you know, put out our tastings and whatnot. Um and yeah, that kind of this screwed up screwed us over. Definitely a a couple of weeks. Um we lost some money from just having the staff on the team, but you know, I in my opinion, I think it was worth it because I had some really, really strong people. And if that meant that we had to, you know, run for a couple of weeks of labor, like we ran for a couple of weeks and ever, I'm not giving up on on with on this team.
+
+[59:16] So I know for a fact that if you open without enough of a buffer, at the end you get toasted and you start cutting corners at opening, and then you open by burning everyone out, and then you've ruined the restaurant for the first year. How do you avoid doing that? Um can you explain that again? Say that again? So it's like, you know, you show up, you you've only budgeted like two million for opening.
+
+[59:38] Yeah. You're you spend your two million, you don't have enough inventory, you don't have enough labor, you're opening now, so you start cutting all these corners right as you're opening and stretching your staff to the very limit because you don't have the cash to spend that you need to at the very end. And you open, you open like sucking wind. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean you gotta raise some more money.
+
+[59:58] I think ra I think what's really important is to make sure that you have that working capital at the beginning. So you have the ability. Like, I you know, I I I'm always like raise more than you than you think you need. Raise more because you're gonna even if it says that on paper, like do your best to just keep trying to get that in because you're got something's gonna happen. You know, our gas didn't turn and we burn for a couple of weeks.
+
+[1:00:20] You know, you need to make sure that you have that backup money, man. It's like it's really really important. Whatever you think you need for working cap, you need more. Yeah, yeah. That is that is good advice.
+
+[1:00:30] And if Joe will let me on the way out, since I know uh your Saturdays were sawfish and ackey growing up, is there a good place to get non-canned ackey in in New York? Oh my god, no. I've just like I've been trying to find it everywhere, and I I I struggle to find it. Can you get it in UK? You can get it in the UK, but yeah, you had to like you have to you have to do some stuff for me.
+
+[1:00:51] I've only ever had canned. Yeah, yeah. It's not bad, but it's not it's not ideal. It's just, you know, anything that's canned is just never, it's like sitting in its own water and stuff. Yeah.
+
+[1:01:02] I mean, if it's anything like other fruits like lychee, I mean Yeah, go go to Jamaica. Uh someday. I've never been. Someday. Someday.
+
+[1:01:09] Anyway, India, thanks so much for coming on. Welcome back anytime. Cooking issues.
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+[0:11] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from the Heart of Manhattan Rockefeller Center, New York City, New Stand Studios. No John today. No John. No John.
+
+[0:21] No John. He's chilling in Connecticut. He's like, it's too, it's too damn cold. I'm not coming back. And he's like, it's springtime.
+
+[0:25] It shouldn't be this cold in New York City. So to hell with you. I'm not coming back. I think that's what happened. Love you, John.
+
+[0:30] Yeah, yeah. Love you anyway. There was a guy in New Haven, one of the best uh panhandlers of all time, who you would his we called him God Bless You Anyway, because you wouldn't give him money and be like, God bless you anyway. I was like, I don't want that. Don't give me that.
+
+[0:43] Don't give me your sloppy God bless anyway. What are you talking about? Anyway. Got uh Joe Hazen rocking the panels. What's up?
+
+[0:49] Hey, hey, hey, welcome to the studio. We may or may not, she keeps calling in and dropping out. Now listen, Nastasia the Hammer Lopez lives in a neighborhood in Los Angeles called Laurel Canyon, where for some reason, even though everyone's got money, no one's got cell service. So you explain this to me. It's like it's like it's like all the people who live in the financial district or or try, you know, try Becca down here and are like, no, no, the streets are supposed to suck.
+
+[1:12] That's why we pay all the money so that we can like bust all of our cars and bikes on cobblestones and snap our heels off. We love it. We pay extra for it. That's what she does with her cell service. P.S.
+
+[1:21] Her dad used to work for ATT. Still, no cell service. Can't get any cell service in where Nastasia like uh lives. Whatever. It is a nicer environment than what we have here in New York City, our tortured hellscape.
+
+[1:35] But we do have Jackie Molecules who lives in the lowlands in Los Angeles. How are you doing? Yo, I'm good. So are you in the area. Are you in the area that like cracks off and goes off into the ocean when it finally happens?
+
+[1:46] Or no? No, no, I'm east. Okay. All right. So where does the line run where where like the entire seaboard just goes goodbye and turns into Vancouver Island South?
+
+[1:58] That's a great name for it. I don't know, actually. Yeah. We'll figure it out. Uh and speaking of Vancouver Island in the upper left, we got Quinn.
+
+[2:07] What's up? Quinn. Oh, good, good, good. All right. And uh today in studio, our special guest with the upcoming, not yet released, you get it here early, coming out on March 24th, book, Ham L.
+
+[2:20] Whaley with his new book, Hello Home Cooking. Wait, how do you like to pronounce Hello Home Cooking? Is it like hello, home cooking, or is it like, hello, home cooking? Or like is it somewhere in between? I like the emphasis on the hello, like like old school sitcomie, hello home cooking.
+
+[2:34] Oh, all right, all right. Hello. Well, you do like you make a bunch of Seinfeld references. So I do. I do.
+
+[2:39] You like some. Although, have you gone and look obviously funny, incredibly poorly acted. Yes. No doubt. No, it's Jerry Seinfeld, maybe the worst actor in sitcom history.
+
+[2:50] Yeah, just a bread. He is horrendous. Yeah, he's horrendous. Can't like, you know, can't go outside of the yeah, it's definitely carried by the cast around him. Yeah.
+
+[3:00] Yeah. Well, uh, you know, uh what's her name? Julie Louis Dreyfus is fantastic. Amazing. Amazing.
+
+[3:04] Uh Jason Alexander, great. Yeah. Michael Richards, great. Aside from, you know, yeah, like from the stuff that's not so great. Aside from that, yeah, not not great.
+
+[3:15] A lot of not great things in his in his in his past. Yeah. Um Julia Louie Dreyfus, though. Amazing, consistently amazing. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[3:22] Uh oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, like, you know, that Veep, all the other like weird, bad, terrible movies she's been in where she's still great in them. She's also, I I'm not a big person. I'm not a big person who likes to watch like, you know, those YouTube interviews with like with like stuff. I don't really care about those, but I will watch every single one with her because she is so funny, consistently funny, a great storyteller.
+
+[3:43] She's a great watch every time. She has a podcast that uh we started listening to when we were doing more driving out into Jersey. So I have pictures of listening to my mental pictures of listening to her podcast while waiting for uh Lincoln and Holland tunnel traffic. Which is not like there's like fewer crappy approaches than to like fight your way back into New York City and not in like the Holland tunnel and they have all of those traffic lights. And you're like, don't.
+
+[4:09] Yeah, just don't. Just don't. You don't need them. Like, why isn't there just a way to get from the highway to the freaking tunnel without going through all those damn lights? For those of you that have never visited New York City, you don't know what I'm talking about, but trust me, you don't want to.
+
+[4:22] You don't want to go away. Yeah. It was designed in like the the 20s, probably, when they were like, oh, traffic light. What's the problem? Yeah.
+
+[4:29] What could possibly go wrong? Okay, how many cars are possibly going to come into this city? 25 to 30? You know, the Holland Tunnel was interesting because they had to do a lot of engineering on how to make the air not poisonous because it was one of those early, like, you know, long tunnels underneath the one that cars were going through it, right? It's like a similar problem.
+
+[4:49] They had to make the air not poisonous for the trains coming in and out of Grand Central when they buried all of the lines. And I think Holland, the engineer who the tunnel was named after, like maybe, maybe he died while they were making it, similar to like a rolling situation with the bridge. But you know, Brooklyn Bridge, they don't call it, they don't call it the rolling bridge. They call it Brooklyn Bridge. They're like, I don't care whether this guy died.
+
+[5:09] What is it to me? A bunch of people died making this bridge. You know what I mean? Anyways. Uh well, it's a it's a pleasure having you on.
+
+[5:16] And Quinn, do we have a uh discount at Kitchen Arts and Letters on the pre-order on this sucker? Uh not in the pre-order. I'll try and get one. They're ordered during a pre-order promo. For everybody.
+
+[5:29] Oh, everyone gets a pre any chump can get a pre-order promo. Anyone. Well, welcome welcome any chump, you know, to the game. Well, well. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[5:39] Um, all right. So right now is the period of the show where we shoot the breeze over anything that's happened in the first of all. So 24th is next week, right? When it comes out? So what do you have to do in the week before a book comes out that is like unlike other like do you have to like make a bunch of recipes and show up at places with recipes and try to tell people like what's what, or do you or do you just kind of chill and wait for it to happen?
+
+[6:03] Like what how does this work now? Now you just you just talk about the book nonstop. So I've had I just had a podcast earlier today where I was talking about this book. I have another one later today where I'm talking about this book, and then I'm gonna shoot some uh social videos where I'm making recipes out of the book, and then that's pretty much every single day up until Kiln comes out. So it's like, hey, there's it's like, hey, buy my book.
+
+[6:27] Did you know? I had a book. You should buy it. It's really good. Buy my book.
+
+[6:30] Hey, you down the street, buy my book. It's a lot of that. Yeah. It's a lot of that. Are you doing the are you are you on one of the NPRs?
+
+[6:36] Um, no, not yet. You gotta get on the W N Y C, man. I need to, I know. Why not put in a good word for me? I mean, if I knew those fools, I would.
+
+[6:43] You know what I mean? But I'm always kind of like curious, like what kind of questions, like what's the question you hate the most that people keep asking you that you have to do over and over again? Your favorite X or your f I mean, like I it's like it's always like you have to do it because uh like I'm not a very famous person, so people don't know who I am. So it's just the give me a gist about your life. So it's like basically giving like an autobiography in five minutes every time.
+
+[7:07] That's always how you open. That's always like that's what everyone wants. It's like, can you condense your life story and your career into you know just a couple of sound bites for people to like learn about you? And you're like, yeah. But you know, the good news for anyone that actually wants that information is that every chapter has a biographical section in it.
+
+[7:25] So all they need to do is, you know, if you want to know about, by the way, I never played any of the Final Fantasy because it just missed me because I'm, you know, I'm older. You know what I mean? So like if you want to know what it was like. First of all, how do you pronounce that the country Q-A-T-A-R? Is it closer to butter or closer to guitar?
+
+[7:42] Because I hear both in the US. I hear both. So this is very controversial. So in Arabic, it's Qatar. So that's like the Arabic pronunciation.
+
+[7:50] But a lot of those letters don't exist in English. So a lot of people try and say like kind of like the English do paella. Like they try and do that and they'll say cutter, but that hurts me. It like it hurts my ears. It makes me kind of cringe a bit.
+
+[8:04] So you prefer Qatar. I prefer Qatar personally, but it's like it's it's really uh up to you. Like it's it's like you know where the country is. So I'm happy with that now because before the World Cup and before what's happening now, like people did not know what Qatar was or where it was. They thought I just made it up.
+
+[8:22] They thought it was a state that they didn't know. So it's like, so it's I'm just happy people know it. But personally, I'm a Qatar versus cutter. Or if I'm going to, if I'm going to go that route and like kind of flex that, like, yes, I grew up there and I can speak some Arabic, I'll say Qatar. But like I'm I'm like, I find that kind of strange.
+
+[8:41] You know, that there, like the Giada Delorentis, where she she'd be like speaking and then just drop some like perfect Italian pronunciations in there. I find that to be a little weird. You know, in normal conversation, I'll just say Qatar. So could you not watch Jeopardy back in the day because you couldn't stand when Trebek did his like accents? It was rough.
+
+[8:58] It was rough. It's rough. We love you, Alex, but can't you just, man, come on, man. It's like we know. You're a very learned human being.
+
+[8:59] We we get it. You're a smart guy, but it's like just talk to us. We're just here. Yeah. Or like an American aggressively rolls their arm or something.
+
+[9:12] It's like every time. Yeah. It's yeah. It's rough, right? We know you've been to Spain, guy.
+
+[9:17] We know. Completely non-cooking related, but often one of the anecdotes here. You mentioned uh again with the with the playing in your PlayStation, getting these the magazines you used to get in in Doha were like literally sharpied out the stuff they didn't want to. Who has the time? Did magazines cost infinity because you had to hire someone to sit there and sharpie every magazine out?
+
+[9:35] Yes, because from because they had to get shipped in, which already adds to the cost, and you have the sensors who are manually sharpieing, you know, any potential potential hint at cleavage. Like it's a video game. It's not like you're seeing full frontal and or full on nipples. It's like just like the promise of cleavage. And this is like tech and two era, right?
+
+[9:55] So pretty blocky. Yeah. Very blocky. Very, very blocky. So you were not looking at realistic models.
+
+[10:00] Uh a lot of it was still in 2D. So yeah, just everything. Fully, fully. And it's not like they would they would just black out the what they thought were the compromised areas. Full blockage, head to toe.
+
+[10:13] So it's like, at least let me see the face, man. Let me give me some kind of idea of what this looks like. So question. Do you, as a result, find silhouettes more sexy than the average American? Ooh, very, very interesting choice.
+
+[10:27] The uh maybe. Yeah. Maybe I never thought of it. I never analyzed it this deeply, but but I do love a silhouette. Right?
+
+[10:34] And I think for the average American, look, I mean, there's like a Victorian era kind of American who like, you know, grew up with those weird silhouettes of people on the wall. He couldn't afford maybe to get the picture done, but you could get the silhouette. You know what I mean? But like I feel like that's like an era of the past. The only time you see silhouettes are like, you know, truck, those chrome truck McGillas.
+
+[10:54] Yeah. Those are very suggestive. Probably not allowed. Definitely that those would get the silhouettes would get sharpied over, that's for sure. Yeah, that's a silhouette of a silhouette.
+
+[11:02] You're like, I know what's under that. You can't you can't hide that. I can't make that. I know that's a naked lady on the back of that automobile. Yeah.
+
+[11:08] Anyway. Uh all right. So enough of the non-cooking stuff. What do you what do you got for me, Jack? Stas and I, she's not here, I guess, but we went, we both went to nine inch nails.
+
+[11:20] Oh, yeah. And then uh watched then we had the Oscars. Uh we we all hung and watched the Oscars the other night, which was fun. Was it? Um was it actually though?
+
+[11:30] Well, yeah, it was, you know. You can find fun in these things. Oh, yeah. Were the Oscars fun? I don't I don't know.
+
+[11:37] But they were fun. So you weren't like they were on, but they weren't what you were focused on. No, we were focused on it, but you know. Okay. Getting jokes off.
+
+[11:46] I see. Okay. And what was the what's Oscar party food before I talk about nine inch nails, which is really important. We did uh we got uh pizza from Triple Beam, which is not very interesting, but Nastasia did um I think she helped make lasagna with Elizabeth Faulkner. She's not here, so she can't speak to it, but it was very good.
+
+[12:05] Yeah. And she made it. Yeah. So I have nothing beyond that. Let me ask you this.
+
+[12:10] Are you more putting the goodness of the lasagna on Faulkner or on Nastasia's Suchet's ship? And please the fifth. Yeah. Smart man. Smart man.
+
+[12:22] Right answer. Do you know, I've never. So like, you know, like uh Faulkner was on the show, I don't know how many years ago. When she was like a year or two ago when she was doing her date, uh started her date liquor. You know, she's making date.
+
+[12:34] I didn't know that. She's making date liquor. Get this. So yeah, she's teamed up with uh, you know, in like extreme SoCal, like probably out near the Panaments or something, uh, some date farm, and all of the sugar is made from dates. So like they do a fermentation of dates.
+
+[12:50] So they're probably using I think they're using mainly for that, like medules because the sugar level's so high. You know what I mean? So they're doing a date fermentation, and then when they do their sweetened, like their their Amaro, they use date sugar for that too. So it's like no oops, it's nothing but dates when it goes in. Is it out already?
+
+[13:07] Or is it something that she's still working on? It is. Uh it's I forg I forget who's carrying it's in tomorrow. Yeah, it's in it's in California. Uh I forget where she said she's she just switched distributors in in New York, but yes, it is available, and they're gonna do I think a New York tour of it again.
+
+[13:23] Anyway. That sounds amazing. Yeah, it sounds really, really good. But then I was, I think. I was like, uh, I was like, you know what?
+
+[13:29] I never had like any of like her famous like pizzas or any of those things that she I was like, I was like, man, I feel like such a chump. Like whenever I have someone on and I've never had any of their famous, like, you know, I'm like, uh, what a chump I am. Well, I've I've when she first started, I knew ours like this amazing pastry chef. Never got a chance to try any of her pastries. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[13:49] Never got a chance to try any of her Italian food when she's shifted into the Italian world. So I gotta make sure that I try some of the day tomorrow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, she's funny.
+
+[13:57] She's like, uh, yeah, we're just we'll have her back on again, which he when she comes back. But that's not what we're here to talk about today. So, how is nine-inch nails? Because that is what we were here to talk about today. Nails was fantastic.
+
+[14:09] Yeah. Un unparalleled, unparalleled, like stage audio visual presentation. I mean, that's usually the case with them. But it was yeah, it was fantastic. Does is Reznor still I I don't think he is, but Reznor used to famously kind of be a dick to the other musicians who are on the stage, like to the extent that he's like, you're kind of worthless and just kick over their equipment.
+
+[14:30] You know what I mean? Like, but he's not like that anymore, right? Oh, well, no, he he no, but I will say, so we we we there there are two stages. This will be a quick story. There are two stages, and there's like a B stage where they do like the more he's like playing piano and stuff, and we were right in front of that, like maybe you know, ten feet away or something, like very, very close.
+
+[14:47] I think they have two stages. He's on the piano. Yeah, yeah, it was pretty cool. So he's on the piano singing a song to open, and um at the end he kicks over the it gets up and it kicks the piano bench off the stage. All right, and there's just clearly a production guy whose job is to catch the bench every show.
+
+[15:05] He was standing there waiting for it. That's hilarious. That's hilarious. I um when I was at the Brandy Carlisle concert, like something went wrong with her guitar, and literally in the middle she just holds her guitar out like it's some sort of unclean filth, and someone runs on the stage and grabs it and then puts a new guitar in it. Oh, like strong, strong.
+
+[15:24] I like that. It's a good move. Yeah. So was it uh the piano? Was it an acoustic version of I want to f you like an animal?
+
+[15:32] No, no, no, no, no. I actually forget the song, but yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, now that's what's going through my head. Well, of course, how can it not be? Yeah, yeah.
+
+[15:39] Yeah, anyway. Well, that's the video where he was hanging upside down the whole time, right? I think so. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
+
+[15:45] Then there's like I think there's maybe there are like meat hooks involved somehow. Yeah. I might be wrong. Maybe you're on something like that. Sounds about right.
+
+[15:52] I would feel like if you're gonna do it with an animal, maybe choose a live animal, not one on a meat hook. Just saying. Like whatever your kink is, I mean, hey man, not here, you know, not here to judge. Uh they did head like a hole. Oh yeah.
+
+[16:08] Okay. Oh, yeah. Uh all right, Quinn, what do you got? Uh this week we made some uh fresh emu egg pasta. So I guess it's good that uh nostalgia dropped out and cheese eggs.
+
+[16:26] Right. I I have to ask. Like, of all the applications on earth where you can taste the egg the least, pasta's gotta be it. Like, I used to I I I know that I rant, right? But like I used to color my pasta red with ketchup because you can't taste it.
+
+[16:45] You know what I mean? So like why is it just because you had it where you're just like this is my flex now? I make emu egg pasta, or like why why pasta? Well, I wanted to see if the texture would be different. And it is kind of there's actually more delicate than a regular egg pasta.
+
+[17:07] So I wonder if like the amylase and the egg yolk is more active or something. Or maybe it just doesn't have as much protein. But the point is it looks really thick. Like even when it's raw, the yolk and the egg white are very, very risky. So I thought there would actually be more protein.
+
+[17:33] All right. Are you sure? But maybe I are you sure that the person you bought it from hadn't frozen them? I know you can prevent them from cracking. I don't even know whether emu eggs crack.
+
+[17:43] You ever freeze eggs and they crack, but they're still fine. You know what I'm saying? They crack, but they're still good. I don't think I've ever frozen an egg. Yeah.
+
+[17:49] Well, when you freeze an egg, the yolk goes solid. So if you but like I we used to get um we used to root in solid. Yeah, but we used to let me finish. So at the French Culinary Institute, where they kept the eggs was too cold. And I think where we used to get them from Dairyland, like they kept their eggs like super cold.
+
+[18:07] So when I used to do my sous vide demos, I would know if the eggs not even frozen had been stored like too too cold, so they were even close to freezing, and the yolks would always be thicker. So I'm wondering if because the emu eggs have to last a long time because they're not like selling them like I don't know, chicken eggs, that like they keep them like like at zero. So where they're not like freezing, they're not gonna the yolk won't go solid, but might get thicker. You know what I'm saying? This is a s I'm ask I'm asking because I have no idea, but I suspect that might be the case rather than it's also possible it's a different bird.
+
+[18:41] Who knows? You know what? I don't find it. Yeah, I mean I g I I can ask how they're stored. Yeah.
+
+[18:47] But this is two eggs like the and again the the farmer tells us they're ready. We pick them up. So I don't think maybe they're storing them in like a really, really cold fridge, but I would assume it's like standard refrigeration. Okay, I like the way you say they're ready. I'm imagining this emu like for like three days and finding you like, ready.
+
+[19:17] Let 'em know. Let them know. All right. I thought you said you were gonna put two eggs in the uh the two emu eggs in the pasta, and I was like, what are you making pasta for a billion people? Well, I tried to make emer egg and then fill ravioli with quail eggs when they fell apart.
+
+[19:42] I see. I see. I see. So like a tiny egg and a big egg. Listen, Ham, do you have any good techniques for peeling quail eggs?
+
+[19:51] Because I don't, I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I love quail eggs, but I hate peeling them as well. I love quail eggs.
+
+[19:58] Yeah. Like just hard boiled pop them like snacks like olives, especially a pickled quail egg. Oh, what a treat. Well, but here's the thing there's a magic point in a pickling before the texture goes too rubbery and it shrinks too much when it's just right. Where it it it doesn't, because I feel like when it goes too far it can get a little plasticky.
+
+[20:17] Yeah. Like when you're bite into it. But yes, there is a sweet spot where it just yields just the right amount. Right. Because I don't appreciate the texture.
+
+[20:24] Because like one day I was like, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna make pickled eggs. Because I was this was like, you know, the last bar. I was like, I'm gonna make pickled eggs. I'm gonna see whether the canned quail eggs work.
+
+[20:32] They're too, they're not, they're they're no they're no good. Yeah, they're no good. They're no good. They're no good. But like imagine if they had been good.
+
+[20:40] If someone made like what if someone made like frozen, like a first of all, I don't know why all hard boiled eggs you buy. I know you don't like hard boiled eggs. I I don't. I'm not a big fan of hard boiled eggs. So do you pickle softer eggs?
+
+[20:51] I do. Jammy. I like a pickled jammy egg. Pickled jammy. That sounds like uh like a 1993 ska pickled jammy egg.
+
+[20:59] Yeah, yeah. But uh opening for no doubt. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, but uh, yeah, I like a hard boiler. But I guess with a jammy egg, you could probably keep it better in the pickle longer, right?
+
+[21:09] It's not gonna go as exactly. You have a bigger, especially for like restaurants, you just have a bigger window to just store the eggs. Right. But imagine if someone made that pr like the first time you realize that you can buy frozen uh pearl uh pearl onions that are already peeled. Imagine if someone did that with like quail eggs that was actually good that you could use, and then you could be like, everybody gets tiny pickled eggs.
+
+[21:31] All of you, you all get tiny pickled eggs. You know what I mean? That's a shark tank idea, right there. You you can go to Shark Tank with your frozen, frozen pickled quail eggs. You know what we'll do?
+
+[21:39] We'll get crisper to make quail eggs with no shells. We'll crisper those quails up. They'll be like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blahs. Done. You know what I mean?
+
+[21:49] I'm glad you brought up the frozen pearl onion because they're one of my favorite vegetables out of the frozen aisle. They're amazing. How are you making a chicken pot pie if you don't do it? Yeah. You know what I'm saying?
+
+[21:59] Now here's the problem. There are literally four grocery stores within a block of my house. Only one of them carries pearl onions, but they don't carry the standard brands, and they're slightly too big. Oh no, that's the worst. Yes.
+
+[22:13] That's the worst. Yeah. Wegmans has the perfect frozen pearl onions. So you live pretty close to that Kmart Wegman's, right? Yeah.
+
+[22:20] I call it the Kmart Wegmans people because for many years this was a Kmart and then it became a Wegman's. So to me it's the Kmart Wegmans. I apologize in in advance. But it is an interesting store, like the weird up and down. Uh but it's a good resource to have.
+
+[22:34] It's it's great. They their produce isn't great, but their their fish aisle, their like seafood aisle is amazing. They have so many fish that they get from Japan. They do like tuna cutting demos. They're their fish is top, top notch.
+
+[22:48] And just their general Wegman's brand stuff. I don't know how this turned into a Wegman's ad. But they're like Wegman's. They don't even pay stuff. Do they pay you?
+
+[22:55] No, I wish you'd be like, sucker. They don't pay me either. Chumps, idiots. It's good. It's pretty good.
+
+[23:01] It's like cheap and good. Okay. Speaking of, you know, they're an upstate New York brand. Yeah. I know you're a hot dog man based on your book.
+
+[23:07] Although, okay, before we go any further, I was gonna say they carry a brand of hot dogs that I like, Zweigels, which is a Rochester brand hot dog that I've I I enjoy it. I think it's good with skins, because I'm a skinned hot dog fellow. Yeah. What the hell is a Brazilian hot dog party? So a Brazilian hot dog party, it's it's just it's a giant pot.
+
+[23:26] It's a lot of, it's um sauce, it's um peppers and onions cooked down, some tomato sauce in there, some seasonings, and then you can either sear off the hot dogs and dump it in there or just dump the hot dogs right in there. So what do you do? I like to sear and then put it in. I like that extra, that extra bit of flavor. And the smokiness from the hot dogs mingles with the sauce, and you get like this delicious thing.
+
+[23:49] So that that pot just goes out on the table, and then you just have an array of toppings. Like, and not just, I'm not talking like onions, relish, ketchup, mustard. I'm talking mashed potatoes, potato sticks, chilies, pickled peppers, pretty much anything that you have in your fridge that's ready to eat and that can go on a piece of bread, that's making it onto the table. And you just grab your hot dog, ladle a sauce into your bun, and then you kind of just hit the buffet of toppings and make your own, make your own hot dog. Now, these are somewhat soupy, so these are eat over a plate situation.
+
+[24:21] These are eat over a plate. Yeah. You need you you always have a paper plate, and it's definitely one of these. You gotta eat it kind of like a taco, like the the kind of angled, angled bite, so you can get all the toppings into your mouth. But it's it's like I if I was going to a weekday Brazilian party growing up, that's what was on the table.
+
+[24:38] And it's like I'd I would crush like three of them. And I would go different toppings every time. Because I like wanted to experiment. I wanted to try. I have my tried and true, which is mustard, some avocado, some uh it's called uh patata palla, which is like uh potato sticks.
+
+[24:53] Um that like the same ones little mayo. The same ones they put on the Cuban uh um fritas? Yes, same one. It's like it's just a perfect nice, it's so crunchy. I know you're a fan of French's.
+
+[25:03] How are the French's potato sticks for this application? They're good. They're a little thick. Um you're a fan of the French onions. I love I love French's onions.
+
+[25:11] I love French's onions and the French's potato sticks. That they were actually discontinued, the French's potato sticks. Yes, because I um why does everything always have to suck? I know, it's uh it's crazy. Because that that that was my go-to replacement for those potato sticks.
+
+[25:23] And they're like, I have to I used to be able to get them off Amazon, but now they're they're just gone. Speaking of Amazon, again, people who aren't paying us. Uh so if you what was the what was the thing you used? The it was was it the edamame dip you put the French's onions on? Yes.
+
+[25:38] Yeah. So by the way, interesting idea. Make make a edamame, then you know, kind of saute it in the pan, blend it up, and then of course French's onions on top. So many people come on, like we had the lion lion dance cafe, and they're like, you know, we fry our onions. I'm like, man, I just buy French's, man.
+
+[25:53] And here's the pro tip. And again, they're not paying us as far as I know. Don't go to the supermarket and buy the little tiny plastic tub. It's gonna be gone in two seconds. Get the food service ziplock foil bag.
+
+[26:07] Yep. Just do it. Just do it. It's worth it. You are going to go through it, I guarantee you.
+
+[26:12] These like pantry staples, just get them in bulk. Yeah. Like Noor, the Noor bouillon powder. We go through so much of that stuff. Also, another happily, happily accept money from Noor.
+
+[26:22] It's usually where they have it. We just get the big big tubs. The big, big tubs of them. They're not gonna give you money because you uh you you you poked at Big Mayonnaise with your tofu tahini situation. You poked at Big Mayonnaise.
+
+[26:34] So they're mad at me. Uh but wait, wait, so wait. So the onions, here's the thing, right? Uh you gotta start putting them on stuff or they'll go ran. But you will.
+
+[26:44] Like, you know, make any of these salads. By the way, salads. You're a vinaigrette only man, huh? I'm a vinaigrette only man. I'm a vinaigrette only.
+
+[26:51] I I like I like creamy dressings, but I like to use them more as as dips for like hand salads and things. Like I'll boil potatoes, like boiled potatoes, exactly. But like for a nice leafy green salad, I just I'll put a bunch of stuff on it, and I don't even make my vinaigrette on the side. I just dump some vinegar on it, dump some olive oil, season it, and then toss it. It's like it's easier.
+
+[27:11] You get to taste everything a lot better. Like it's it's I I want to taste, I spent good money for my lettuce. I want to take I want to be able to taste my lettuce. I don't want to like drown it in in something super creamy. Yeah.
+
+[27:21] Oh, by the way, speaking of salad, because the only reason I think of this is there is a picture of the of this particular vegetable, radish. So my wife, and Nastasia, if she ever comes back on, I don't know if she's here or not, but uh Nastasia can't do raw onions because they quote unquote give her nightmares. My wife. Wait, really? Yeah.
+
+[27:38] I don't know. My wife can't stand the smell of raw onions or people who have cooked with raw onions. Now, here's my problem. Okay. I love raw onions.
+
+[27:45] Yeah, they're amazing. Yeah, they taste good. Like the best burger dressing for me is like you get a nice thick patty. I'm like over the smash. I want a nice thick patty in my burger, seasoned really well, slice of cheese, thick slice of raw onion.
+
+[27:58] That's it. I don't need a sauce, don't eat anything else. I just want my onion, my patty, my cheese. I love it. So, like, like in Nor's Dax, my son was home for the spring break because he's in college, and he thought that my wife was going to be gone for the evening.
+
+[28:10] He's like, oh, so we can have onions tonight. I'm like, no, man. She's coming home for dinner. She's just going to be late. He's like, oh, you want to see your mom?
+
+[28:18] I love I love that. It's like, wait, she's gone. We can have raw onions. Yeah. Yeah, dude.
+
+[28:23] And well, what's weird is my son Booker look like he only eats like three things. One of them is tuna salad. He'll never use my recipes or anything like that. So it's full of like like red onions, which he chops. I think he uses the back of the knife because they're like mashed in like you know, big chunks, and like then it ends up everywhere in like the whole kitchen.
+
+[28:42] When my wife comes home smells like tuna and raw onions, she's like, oh, she hates it. Anyway, that's not why I'm talking about this. My point is the grated radish. So, like, not like Daikon. I like have like the so you use the box grater to good effect here.
+
+[28:56] You make your by the way, I don't know. Really, I need to put sweet potatoes in my in my freaking like uh hash browns. I need to add some sweet potato to my hash browns. It's nice, a little bit of sweetness. See, I I am a sweet potato hater.
+
+[29:07] I'm not a fan of sweet potatoes. I like sweet potato fries make me angry. Just a mere existence, like it is not a good fry. It is not a good potato. Thank you.
+
+[29:15] Stop lying to yourselves. Like the sweet potato fry just is not, should not be a thing. Should not be a thing. They don't even make good chips because of their sugar content. It's hard to get them to you.
+
+[29:24] You can't hit that sweet spot where they crisp without burning. Ding ding. Like unless they coat them in starch and then and then it's not a potato chip anymore. It's something else entirely. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+[29:33] So yeah. So I I but I was out of potatoes. I had already grated one potato, so I couldn't have got I can't I can't go back. I can't go in a different direction. For whatever reason, I'm sure we're like solo was recipe testing something, so we had a sweet potato at home.
+
+[29:47] Great it, mix it in, bulk it up. The sweetness, so you get the nice crispness from the your regular russet potato, but the little pops of sweetness are really, really nice. I gotta say. I gotta say. So sweet potato on its own, no, but if you if you mix it in with a russet, kind of top it, you know how really nice farmers market potatoes have like a good amount of sweetness in them.
+
+[30:10] It kind of makes your russet taste like a fancier farmer's market potato. Just gives it another nice little dimension. And so for those of you that you know are wondering at home, buy the book and you can see the recipe. However, it's roughly two pounds of of uh regular God's potato and like one quote unquote medium sweet potato. So like that's the ratio.
+
+[30:31] So like a little less than a half of a five-pound bag. Oh, wait, speaking of potatoes, I did I cook potatoes this weekend. I did pick potato bar 70 style. And Little, which has issues as a supermarket, just opened across the way. Worst shopping experience in the world, but they sell five-pound bags of baking potatoes.
+
+[30:50] Really? Yeah. And in general, they're fine. Because normally when I'm gonna bake a potato, I'm like, I'm staring at that potato. I'm that guy that people are like, can you move over so I can get you the potatoes?
+
+[30:59] Like, maybe you should have gotten here 10 minutes ago because now the potatoes are mine. All of these are mine. Yeah. Whereas like with avocados, I'm more like, I'm just like trying to find the soft ones. You know what I mean?
+
+[31:10] Like anyway. Uh so radishes. So I grate radishes in similar like box grater style to that. They look kind of like red onions. They give crunch and they also give a little bit of the sharpness that onions would have, even though they don't taste like onions.
+
+[31:24] That is nice. Do they get farty? No. And here's another thing. They last a million, well, not if they're kept dry.
+
+[31:31] Okay. Uh, but they they last so long compared to an onion. You know how like when someone chops an onion, you're like, if you leave them out, they'll dry out. But I know I have them in covered, like snap cover containers, and they last like you know, overnight. So like that's what like I put on top of beans at home.
+
+[31:47] Really? Yeah. Because I can't stand having beans without like you know something. Yeah, something like fresh and chili, like fresh and bright and crunchy. Speaking of, uh your so your your mom, the figures large in in the book, and you went back and looked at a lot of her old recipes that you couldn't look at for years because it was too painful because you lost her too early in in a terrible way.
+
+[32:10] But she makes her chili with beans in it. Talk to me about this. I am very see. I know I I understand the history of the chili and how it is. I'll all meet, no bean.
+
+[32:22] I get that. But just texturally, for me, I need something to break up that monotony uh of that like braised meat or like ground beef, whatever that may be. I like the texture of a bean in there. It's it's it's delicious. It's it's there's nothing wrong with a bean.
+
+[32:39] I love beans, and it's it's just she always she always made it with beans. So my default to chili is always a chili with beans, always kidney beans, has to be a kidney bean. What do you fools think about it over there and uh on the other coast? I mean, I'm I'm Canadian, so I have no strong bean opinion. I actually did have a question.
+
+[32:59] I actually did read the book, and there's a recipe I'm thinking about, but I couldn't find it again. I thought it was the one of the egg preparations where you call for bringing the pan to medium, then low, and then medium again. That's the sausage, that's the sausage egg and cheese recipe, right? So the sausage. So isn't that correct?
+
+[33:26] Yeah, boy. Why? I so I'm trying to teach people how to preheat their pan. That that's like a big in especially in the in the intro chapter and the early chapters where I talk about eggs and and everything like that. I feel like a lot of people lean on an on the nonstick because they there's a greater buffer with with that.
+
+[33:46] Like you can you can kind of heat a nonstick pan and then things will be okay. But if you're I'm trying to convince people to move away from the nonstick, because you can do you can achieve much better results with stainless steel pans and cast irons, but you need a little bit of knowledge to use them properly. And I think the main thing that p I want people to take away from with uh when it comes to using stainless steel and cast iron or even carbon steel is the importance of preheating your pan. So I I try and use a lot of visual cues and try and get people to to spend some time getting their getting their temperature of their pan to a certain level before adjusting the heat to where they want it to be. So like something like an egg, I actually like to get my pan nice and hot over medium, and then I'll if I'm doing a like a sunny side with something that needs a more delicate heat, I'll take it back down to low and then gently, gently cook it until the whites are set, maybe pop a lid on there to get the yolk warm, and then slide it out.
+
+[34:49] Yeah, I noticed that you you call out stainless and cast, you don't do carbon. Is it just because this is meant for home cooking and most people don't have it? Exactly. That's why I at the restaurant I I use carbon steel just because it kind of is the best of both worlds. I like how fast it heats up.
+
+[35:06] It's it's very, very consistent, very easy to clean. You just hit it with a little bit of oil at the end of service, and then it's good to go. It's it's amazing. But it's the pan I reach for most often. Yeah, but it hasn't really it hasn't really crossed over into the home cook world.
+
+[35:23] I mean, I'm I'm I'm honestly just trying to convince them to just step away from nonstick. That's like the first step is like just step away from nonstick. I feel the easiest way to step away from the nonstick, because like as you say rightly, uh, cast iron. So my son makes this mistake all the time. He won't listen to me.
+
+[35:40] He's like, what do you know about him? Like, literally, this is what I do for a living. It's my life. Yeah. It's like he jacks the heat on cast iron and then it goes way over and then doesn't come down in time, and then like there's smoke everywhere, and it's nightmare.
+
+[35:54] I'm like, you can't heat cast iron that fast because it's not it's not nimble enough. Exactly. You know what I mean? On the other hand, and I don't want him using that because he doesn't clean them out right anyway. But then uh, but I'm like, yeah, I also don't want him doing that because the seasoning layer on my carbons is so thin because it's not like cast iron, it's not build up the thing.
+
+[36:11] Yeah, that like I don't want him like mutilating it and then leaving it full of water for I don't mind. I'm not one of these freaky, yeah. I scrub mine. I do too. But I don't want it sitting wet for exactly days.
+
+[36:21] Yeah, you know what I mean? If I'm gone or some crap, but I think he would do far better with a with with a carbon pan. I mean, I also love my thick, I use I use Lincoln uh uh Volrath, uh, the thick centurions because they have that giant aluminum sandwich on the bottom. And they used to be cheap, but the price won't weigh the hell up on them. Price of everything is is crazy now.
+
+[36:44] Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's it's getting wild. Speaking of like the pan you'll most often reach for, you're a one knife man, which I appreciate. I am a one knife man. And one knife at a time. What'd you say you're using?
+
+[36:54] Ninox now? Lenox. Can Enox G type. Okay, I tell you something a little embarrassing, but that everyone who picks it up is like, okay, I use the knife that Mads Mickelson uses in Hannibal. Wait, really?
+
+[37:05] Yeah. So like I watched Hannibal, which a lot of cooks like that show. You know what I mean? Go look at it. I think Jose Andress was the culinary director on that show.
+
+[37:13] Really? Yeah. I believe that. And so Mads Mickelson, who is Hannibal Lector, uses a knife. And here's why I think no one would ever use it.
+
+[37:20] It's called Porsche Like the Car, but it's not made by the car company. And it's Porsche 304. And so for you know, anyone who knows steel is like, why the hell would I make a knife out of the 300 series of stainless steel? But it's not made out of 304. I think it's just like this these Germans don't understand kind of what an American would think.
+
+[37:38] So I think no one buys these knives, and it's all stainless. And when you look at it, you're like, that's gonna be slip because it doesn't even have a textured thing like the globals used to. And you're like, that's gonna suck. Yeah. You know what I mean?
+
+[37:51] But like it's got this weird little nipple on the side of the handle and it doesn't slip at all. Oh. And like, and I got a 10-inch because I decided at some point that I like 10-inch knives better than eight, but it's total preference. It's not like it's just stuff like that is total. Like knives in general are total preference of preference.
+
+[38:09] That's why if you're gonna get a nice knife, like you have don't just get it off the internet. You need to hold it and like see how it feels in your hand. This is a great point. And this is like the one of the advantages of hanging around professional cooks is that like, you know, don't take someone's knife without asking. But you could be like, hey, can I can I see your knife?
+
+[38:27] And then you can get a feeling for like there was a time when every everyone in the kitchen, like as soon as they got two nickels, they would get their Masono. Remember the Masono Used UX 10. Yeah, dude. I I have plenty of those uh at home. Yeah.
+
+[38:40] It's the it was the standard knife at a certain type of restaurant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For where you cooked at a lot of those restaurants. Yeah. I did.
+
+[38:47] You know, like all of the like the the wiley style, the Alex style, the uh the freaking does Brooks use those things or no? You didn't cook with Brooks. Did you cook even cooked? Or like uh Yeah, and all of Nils's people at at uh who you know, all of anyone who came out of that kind of like zone training, they were all like UX10 family. You look at their you look at their kid, you're like, okay.
+
+[39:08] Yeah, you know exactly where someone worked, just to just look in looking at those. Yeah, you know, I never owned one. Really? No. When you did it, did you resharpen them 50-50?
+
+[39:16] I did not. I kept the 70-30. Oh, it's ate at 7030. Really? Oh, I I I like for me.
+
+[39:22] Yeah, I like it. I like it. All right. Are you are you a big German knife guy? Look, look, I got my first knife set when in 199 like four, right?
+
+[39:34] And at that time, like Henkel Wustoff was like the crap. No one, no one in the New York metro area knew from like any of these other kind of fancy kind of brands. And so yeah, I like my first set was was uh Henkles, like decent ones. Yeah. Actually, I guess it's 95 when I got married.
+
+[39:52] And um, you know, then you know, when I started getting into it more, I was I would just collect one one offs of kind of what I wanted. Like I finally got a set of Japanese traditionals, like piece by piece from corn, the cheap ones, but they're nice. Oh, you didn't find you it just No, I showed up and they had used it as a cleaver. They used my Yusuba as a cleaver. Yeah, giant half moon.
+
+[40:14] You I couldn't even grind it down, it was total gone. I they left it to rust. I found someone, I I found a cook, a prep cook using my uh Misono UX 10 Honosuki as a can opener. Oh my god. I wanted to die.
+
+[40:28] I I wanted to. Did they die instead? No, they that unfortunately I could not. I could not kill them. There are their laws against that.
+
+[40:34] Oh man. So wrong. Listen, why would you think it's okay to pick up someone's knife? This is their like livelihood. This is what they do.
+
+[40:42] You know what I mean? And use it for such a brutal task. Yeah. Like why would you like it's I I take very good care of my knives. Like they're sharpened.
+
+[40:51] I like to polish them. I I like leather strop them. Like leather strop, key. Key. Leather strop is key.
+
+[40:57] People go buy a leather strop. Buy a used one. Buy an old one. It doesn't matter. They last forever.
+
+[41:01] And then put a hook on like a shelf near where you like your your wherever you sharpen and then poof, and then that's the money right there. So no one talks about them. They should talk about it more. Yeah. It's like it's it's you you you often see tell people like people will often tell you to take it to the steel point, but past the steel point, there's a strop point.
+
+[41:22] And then that, it's like you can shave with that thing. Listen, this is a good conversation to have. For those who have never used a strop before, whether you use paste on it or not, like get a strop, do your normal sharpening routine. Whatever your normal sharpening routine, do it. Then do the paper test, then strop it, then do the paper test, and now you realize you dulled it with the paper test, drop it again.
+
+[41:47] But like the key with a stop, I think people don't know how to use it. You go the other way. Yeah. You know, so like you you're dr you're you're you're you put the dull side towards your chest and you pull the blade across it. And then the one thing you have to be careful about is don't you know, you flick your wrist, you cut your strop a little bit.
+
+[42:04] They're nicks in my strip. I mean it takes it takes a minute to get the motion down. Like that, I definitely have have nicks in in my strop. So the old school barbers, they do leather or leather and linen, or some people just do linen. Are you I'm a leather?
+
+[42:18] I don't use the linen side. Yeah. I I I just do leather. Yeah. I just do leather.
+
+[42:22] Yeah, me too. Oh, strong. All right. Um I don't know how the hell we got on that. I don't know.
+
+[42:26] I don't I don't know where we are. I don't know. I don't know. But anyway, uh so I have a whole drawer of these, because you know, whatever. I'm 55, so this this kind of crap happens, right?
+
+[42:35] So I have all these knives. You know what my favorite knife to slice steak is with? I have an old 10-inch, like real French sabotier, like nice one. Oh, that I found in a thrift store. Three dollars.
+
+[42:48] Blade was straight and uh rust like a demon. So I have to oil it. I have to oil it every time I use it, but it's so thin. I'm just like, yeah, love to cut steak with that knife. Have you ever have you used those ultrasonic knives?
+
+[43:04] So I have one, and we're I'm waiting for uh I'm waiting for him to come on the Seattle Food Geek to come on the show and talk about it. But so like I got I would post more about it, but I got such negative reaction about the sound, but I feel it was unfortunate because like my head was right next to it, right? Yeah, it doesn't make a sound when you're when when it's not in something, it's the harmonics. I'll post more on it. So like mainly I've used it for for bread.
+
+[43:28] I wanted to use it the last time I did like a pulled pork because I wanted to see whether or not I could do the pulled pork. Yeah. But I forgot to charge it. So like I have to wait till I see it again. Yeah, yeah.
+
+[43:37] But um, so in my knife drawer, right? I I anytime like my kids, I'm like, look, don't use this knife. Don't use this knife. Any of these, fine. What do you store your knives in?
+
+[43:52] What's your drawer situation? I built like a I so I built a thing where they can stand like like this. Blade to blade. Uh yeah. So the blades don't touch, nothing touched.
+
+[44:05] By the way, so you that you mentioned something in your book that is something my butcher told me years ago. And I I'm not sure if it's true or not. But this is something I was also told that the hot water is why not to put things in the dishwasher. And I was thinking about it, it's like, why though? Isn't it just that they knock together in the dishwasher and that's what's dulling them?
+
+[44:25] Well, I I don't know if it's just that, but it's also like an old kitchen rule that you never put anything with a blade through the dishwasher. So you never wash like your vita preps, your your Roboku blades, like anything like that. I always thought it was the heat. I was always told it was the heat. That's what I was told by the butcher.
+
+[44:39] But then the more I think about it, I'm like, is it true? Yeah. I'd I'd because the temperatures do get quite high. It's like it they get hotter than than a knife would normally. Yeah, I don't I don't know.
+
+[44:51] Would it would it be the temperature? Yeah, but because I know it's terrible because it's getting rattled around. It's like, how mad are you when when someone helps you and you see your knife in the sink? It's like you're like, why is my knife in the sink? We have also some really nice uh wooden handled tools.
+
+[45:05] It drives me crazy when they go into the sink. You gotta oil them all over again. Yeah, so it's like it's we have a lot of stuff. It it's rare that people help us do dishes just just because there's a lot of there's a lot of rules because there's a lot of like old vintage-y stuff that we have have around that we kind of have our own system to wash. It's hard to own stuff.
+
+[45:24] It's hard to own nice things. So get this, so like uh, you know, obviously because I'm human, I have sheet trays, you know. I mean, they're aluminum, but then my you know, my kids started putting them through the dishwasher. And so every week Wiley would come over and clown me because my so finally we threw them out and got fresh, and I'm like, only hand wash these. We'll see how long that lasts.
+
+[45:42] Not long. Not long. Not long. Not long. Although I found do you use toaster ovens at home?
+
+[45:48] No. I we used to have one, but then we got um we we kind of shifted. We have very limited counter space. So we only have room for two appliances. So vitaprep always is always there.
+
+[46:00] And then we used to have a toaster oven. But then we got like we got this like the Japanese toaster oven that like steams your Balmuda. Balmuda. We got a Balmuda. Um they will they'll does Balmuda sponsor you?
+
+[46:12] No. No, they don't? Okay, fine. It's good toasto. It was it the toast was fine, but then it just stopped working after two months.
+
+[46:18] Yeah. Was that a timer? It w no, it was one of the coils, one of the heating coils just stopped working. It's like for $320. It's too much.
+
+[46:27] It's this is this thing is too expensive to break this easily. Okay, people. For those who have no idea, like who who were so like the they're saying they don't have this is a very kitchen powerhouse cooking powerhouse family. Your kids got a lot to live up to. But like uh the it's funny that you say like they don't have the counter space, they literally have a Roboku that they don't keep on their counter.
+
+[46:53] And so when I read that, I was like, yo, you have to move the you you have to move it on the counter, dude. Anything that's not on the counter, you know who does this also? I'm gonna call them out is uh Wiley Dufrain, my brother-in-law, has all this equipment. He doesn't keep his Vitapep on the counter. Oh, he doesn't?
+
+[47:08] Oh, that's wild. I vitaprep at minimum has to be on the counter just because we use it so much. Right. And also that's another way to know someone's like old like like has been around in kitchens if you still call them vitapreps instead of Vitamix, because they're not Vitapeps anymore. That's right.
+
+[47:22] They're Vitamixes now. It's like I I can't. Vitamix just sounds wrong. Wrong, sounds vitamin. Sounds sounds wrong.
+
+[47:26] Vitaprep. It will always be Vitape. Ding ding. That's like uh, you know, I was at the French culinary and they changed the name to the International Culinary Center. I'm like, okay, you can.
+
+[47:34] Exactly. I will not be calling it that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So you can call it whatever you want.
+
+[47:38] It's like, you know, it's like I still use the Triborough bridge. Because you know, to hell with you. Yeah. But uh anyway. Uh well our rotary evaporators also uh or our centrifuge rather is not is not is not on our counter.
+
+[47:50] Yeah. Imagine if the one piece of equipment you kept on the counter was a centrifuge, it's like, what? Um the we can have clarified lemon juice at the drop of a hat just like yeah. But like the Roboku's not that much bigger than a standard. I mean it is, but it's not that much bigger.
+
+[48:04] It's not that much bigger, but it's a lot heavier. It's it's like a little bulkier and you're not gonna take it out because it's so heavy. But we don't, it's it's about it's about use, how often we use it. And like so, I uh right now we're using our kitchen aid mixer more than we're using the RoboCo. It used to be Vitapep Roboku, but then it's like we're going through like a baking baking mood right now, so it's kind of shifted.
+
+[48:26] So the the vitaprep is the standard, but the second appliance kind of changes with our mood. In the summertime, that gets replaced with our our ice cream maker, like the uh what do you use? Vitamice? It's yeah, musso or lelo, yeah. Yeah, it's amazing.
+
+[48:38] It's it is like not Carpajani level, but it is for home, it it is it's as good as you can get. So here's the thing do you like uh those things have a roughly 20 minute batch time, right? So do you small do you lower the batch size a little bit so you get a faster freeze? Is that the power move? That is the power move.
+
+[48:53] Always like we don't we don't do any more than than like a little bit less than a quart at a time, just because you get that it it just freezes fast enough. And how good is that for a test versus the larger machine in a restaurant? So in other words, like how how transferable are the recipes for that versus when you're using like the larger batch freezers? Oh, very, very transferable. Like I I I do most of my testing in there.
+
+[49:15] At uh Strange Delight right now, we actually do Paco Jets. So the that that doesn't transfer because you need to change the sugar. You need to lower the sugar um by like around 25%. So it freezes hard enough to spin. But uh but for other ice cream makers, it's like a one-to-one.
+
+[49:31] It it's just as good. And you'll just if you're in a Carpajani and you're going from that to that, it's like it's obviously better just because it's a better machine, but you don't I I found that I don't need to adjust the recipe at all. Yeah. All right. Oh, by the way, I'll say this before I run out of time.
+
+[49:44] So again, we're talking to Ham O'Ey about his new book, Hello Home Cooking. Uh are you guys ever gonna do a book together, by the way? You do two books aside as apart from each other. You haven't done one together, right? Not yet, but that's a funny idea.
+
+[49:56] Definitely in the definitely in our future. We've talked about it. So if you if you want to know Ham's like pedigree, all the crap that other people are asking him, either go watch a different interview or like go YouTube. This is the funny part of the book where he's like, oh, yeah, I know how to make an omelet, just YouTube. That I'm not gonna go through it.
+
+[50:12] There's eight million YouTube on this. You don't need that from me, right? And also I find like something like an omelet, it's I'm I'm I'm a visual learner as well. There's some things that I think are better taught visually. Yeah.
+
+[50:23] And I think there's a lot of cues, a lot of motions that is just more useful to get visually. Like it's it's so easy to find someone make a French omelet. Like, I'm not gonna waste your time or my time writing it in the book. All right. So in the roughly nine minutes we have left, we will skip all of that crap.
+
+[50:40] And I'll just ask you some questions about the book. First of all, uh my son who, Booker, who likes nothing, was like agreed to try some of your recipes. The fish, the fish taco and the salmon over bulged wheat. So we'll see whether he actually will eat the bulgor wheat or not. But uh that's high praise.
+
+[50:56] And my wife was like, oh, you gotta make this. Like she was like, the tahini, tahini French. First of all, you're saying that this tahini, this it was tahini mixed with uh cream and sweetened condensed milk or milk, milk, was it tahini over the French toast? What was it? It was tahini.
+
+[51:11] Tahini, milk, maple syrup, maple syrup. That's it. Yeah. And then uh Pecmez uh or pomegranate molasses along with it. Now, the brands of those, do you have a specific brand you like?
+
+[51:21] Because some of them are like kind of more on the burnt side and some are kind of more on the acidic bright side. Do you have a brand of of pomegranate was pomegranate molasses? Named. Do you have a brand of that you like? It's the uh it's the blue, the blue label.
+
+[51:33] The what what's it called? It's uh it's like the Lebanese brand. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Blue labor. Yeah, once in there like weird and like yeah, what's with that?
+
+[51:41] I I don't know. I think it's like how they because it's it's like it's probably the temperature that they reduce the pomegranate juice at. Like they probably go a little bit too high, the sugar gets a little bit too caramelized, and then that bitterness kind of permeates into the syrup. I like the what I want for my pomegranate molasses. I want like that acidity first.
+
+[51:59] Yeah, I want acidity, a little bit of sweetness. You don't want it to be too thick. So it's like I also don't like the ones when they're like the texture of honey. You've reduced it too far. Don't like too much.
+
+[52:08] People are doing too much with the pomegranate. And then splendid's gonna get that weird bitter cook thing. First of all, my wife, my wife went right to this page. Frito ganache. I mean, that's a win.
+
+[52:17] Exactly. It's like salty, crunchy corn with with chocolate. There's there's no yeah, we don't need to talk about how good Fritos are because duh no. And Fritos and chocolate. I mean, come on, please.
+
+[52:27] But I'll have to say, you are the saddest man ever with a cake. There's a picture of you looking so sad. I don't know where it is, looking so sad. With a cheap cake. Oh my god.
+
+[52:39] This is the saddest anyone. Where's the camera? Where this is the saddest anyone has ever been with a nice cake. But uh there was a picture of me hungover out of my mind in Sweden that my old partner Don Lee took of me and said, This is the saddest anyone's ever been with a cake. In a publication, this is the saddest anyone's ever been with a cake.
+
+[52:57] However, I must ask you, what is Brazilian carrot cake? It doesn't have the spices in an American cake does. It doesn't have the spices in it, and it's a blended cake. So you're blending the carrot into the cake. And it's a it's closer to like a box mix texture than American style carrot cake.
+
+[53:15] Still moist? Very, very moist. Very, very moist. So that's a try. That is definitely a try.
+
+[53:20] If you if you love that classic American birthday sheet cake with like the chocolate frosting, this is what that evokes. Like it, it's it's a they live very much in the same world with just a hint of carrot. All right. So let's uh let's run through some questions of questions that I have about the actual cooking techniques. So uh don't get angry at me, because you have recipes for both, but I usually when I cook plantains, I'm doing sweet, like Maduro plantains, right?
+
+[53:44] Like either like split and filled with chili fried or like you know, whatever, fried. Anyway, so in your tostones recipe, which obviously you're not, you like them, you say just when they j start to color up, you mash and then soak in water before you fry the second time. What is that water doing? I found that so I I like to season that water as well. Or not mash, smash, you know what I'm saying?
+
+[54:06] Yeah. Yeah. So you smash them into discs and then dip them into that water. So this is like a the a classic way that a lot of um Dominicans and Puerto Ricans that I've worked with make their tostones. And it's it's something that I learned during family meals.
+
+[54:20] And then I've done it with and I've done it without. I found that if you don't do that dip with the seasoned water, they come out less seasoned and they come out crisp but almost squeaky. Like that kind of I know what you're talking about. Like that starch, you know that that when you fry starch sometimes, you get that squeak because it's not hydrating. That's why I don't like plantain chips.
+
+[54:40] Exactly. A lot of the times they're squeaky. So I feel like that extra hydration just prevents that, and you get a much nicer crunch into a yielding fluffiness as opposed to that squeak. By the way, Quinn, can you check to make sure there are no specific questions for ham that I miss out on from the users? Because otherwise I'm just gonna race through some of the questions I have about the book.
+
+[55:00] Yeah, we're good. Okay. Um, the hottest take of many in your book, but the hottest take is that you literally boil your potatoes in milk and then mash them. So this is the one that like, you know, because we're all raised, and I know that you dealt with this because Wiley's insane about it. Yeah, you know what I mean?
+
+[55:20] Uh you know, you cook the potatoes as dry as possible, but then in your mind, I'm guessing you're like, well, you're gonna add a liquid to it anyway, probably cream or whatever. So why not just cook it in the liquid that you like rather than worrying about adding water to it? Is that where it comes from? Exactly. So there's there's to clarify, so this I do not want to knock the dry potato.
+
+[55:40] Like if I'm if I'm making like a big holiday meal and I want the greatest mash of all time, that's gonna take me I don't know, an hour and a half to make. Yes, I'll I'll dry roast my potato, I'll I'll scoop it out, I'll rice it. But it's like if you're this this book is about making delicious, approachable things doable on a weeknight when you feel overwhelmed where your kids are yelling at you and you're tired. And I just want like you don't need to eat the best all the time. Sometimes pretty freaking good is okay.
+
+[56:13] And that's what these potatoes are. They're pretty freaking good. And all you gotta do is one pot, you mash your potatoes in the liquid you're mixing them into, and then you eat them. They're delicious. A little bit of lobna at the end, like lightens the whole thing up.
+
+[56:25] Because I found that when you do this method of the potatoes uh cooked directly in the liquid that you incorporate into them, they do get a little starchier just because you have all that that starch in there. And so finishing it with something light and bright like labna kind of counteracts that and then you end up with like a nice, uh nicely textured potato. You know what you don't have to do? You don't have to have a separate pot full of cream heating. Exactly.
+
+[56:50] You don't. You got one pot. Will it work with cream instead of milk or does it break it? It'll work with cream. It'll just be richer.
+
+[56:56] You might need to adjust it with milk at the end just to get the right texture. But yeah, it works just as well. All right. Uh by the way, I've never been to a Johnny Rockets. You've never been to a Johnny Rocket.
+
+[57:05] I've never been to a Johnny Rockets here. They're in Jersey. There's one in Elizabeth. I need to go. I've never been to Raz's either.
+
+[57:11] John here says we're gonna go to Raz's. Maybe I hit both go to the Johnny Rockets. I've never been to Rosa's. If you go, let me know. All right, I will, we'll.
+
+[57:17] Um, all right. So by the way, we are we like we so it turns out I guess you said my wife still like when you make a frittada, you're like, I they're throwing in the stuff that my wife still swears is good, but I don't. So we're the exact opposite. I'm the one like, it's still good, it's still good. And my wife's like, this thing's gone.
+
+[57:32] You know what I mean? So we're we're flip on that, which is kind of good. Um, my my wife doesn't like sola doesn't um smell really well, so she can't really do the sniff test when things have gone bad. So there's been many, many times where she's dumped milk into her coffee and it's it's like curdled. And I'm like, you can't drink that.
+
+[57:49] That's like it, it's clear. There's that's like cottage cheese in your milk. Yeah, yeah. Speaking of uh my wife, my wife looks at your cardamom pancake recipe and is like, why don't you put cardamom in your pancakes? I'm like, come on, man.
+
+[57:59] What are you doing? Yeah. I'm trying my best over here. Look at this guy's book and he's giving me crap. What the hell?
+
+[58:06] Um, all right, let me see what else we got here. Uh I have so many questions. I need to know which ones I'm gonna get. Oh, by the way, frozen English muffins are the fastest thing to get out. Good.
+
+[58:15] True. Do you pre-split them before you freeze them? Or yeah. Yeah. If you don't, I know you only have the one microwave recipe in there, but like a quick nuke on it, it makes them fork splitable before you before you unfreeze them.
+
+[58:25] But I think you were exactly correct that it and you make your own sausage and it's quick, but you have to do it overnight. No sage in your breakfast sausage, huh? No sage, no sage in my breakfast sausage. Because I'm going, I'm going more for like a Bolivian chorizo type vibe. So it's like uh no sage and no sage down there.
+
+[58:42] Yeah, no sage down there. Uh it's like something you would say like in like a like a real bad no sage down there. Uh all right, so also I'm gonna call you out. You say dry brine on your shrimp, makes me want to die. You know, I hate the word you don't know that maybe, but like dry, come on, man, you're salting it.
+
+[58:56] You use a lot of baking soda, by the way, uh, in an interesting way. Like when you you're doing your uh chickpea uh situation, you add some baking soda to make them real soft and make them mash out earlier. I don't like the smell. I know you neutralize it with lemon juice, so it doesn't matter, but does that smell of the baking soda cooking with the beans bother you? Yes, it does.
+
+[59:14] I I I exactly like it's there are a lot of people who use baking sodas to help with browning in like caramelized onions and stuff like that. Things that don't naturally get acid. I hate that. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. Like something like caramelized onion, you want you want that sweetness to come from the onion.
+
+[59:31] You don't want anything else to mess with it. But with something like the canned chickpeas, it's it's a canned product. You're gonna cook it for a while, you want it to be really soft, you're neutralizing it with a lot of lemon. I have no problem with that. But yes, the smell of the baking soda, not great.
+
+[59:44] Alright, here's a ready from the this remember the book again is Hello Home Cooking by Hamel Wheiley. I'll give you one more guy, people out there, cooking issues, people. Buy it in Kitchen Arts and Lates if you can. I'll give you one more phoooo. What about tea as broth?
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+[59:56] What about tea as broth? See, under very underappreciated the tea as broth. Like that's actually something I learned from Wiley. Chamomile, he cooked. It was I think it was zucchini with chamomile, and it was paired with like a yeasted mashed potato, another thing that's also delicious.
+
+[1:00:13] And ever since then, just like the the floral with the chamomile with like green vegetables, just goes so well together. Like any kind of really seaweedy Japanese teas, there's so many of them, go so well with beans, or like alright. So there's like it's it's this cooking medium that you usually have in your house, just sitting around that you just kind of drink in the morning with some milk, but it's just a great alternative to like a veg stock or some kind of broth to cook things in. Yeah, and you'll have to come back some time because we didn't get to talk about the fact that in this book you have long cooked green beans and short cooked green beans, and they're very different. We didn't get a chance to talk about it, or the fact that you like cauliflower as as do I.
+
+[1:00:50] Cauliflower needs to have a longer moment, as you say in the sun. Or the fact that why do people you don't actually mention this? You mentioned a bread and butter pickle cauliflower, but everyone says they don't like bread and butter pickles, but they then they sit there eating them. What is that? The bread and butter pickles have a bad wrap for some reason.
+
+[1:01:05] Like it's it's very cool to hate on the bread and butter pickle, but it's it's the superior pickle for sandwiches, it's a superior pickle for burgers. It's just a fantastic pickle that people should appreciate more. It's like sweet, it's briny, it's like it's is it's that beautiful yellow from the turmeric. It's like, what what do you need? Yeah, I don't know more than you I agree.
+
+[1:01:24] And Joe, sorry about this. On the way out, team spoon or team fork. On the way out, team spoon. Team spoon, baby. 100%.
+
+[1:01:30] All right ham thanks for coming on. Come back again. Cooking issues. Thanks for having me.
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