[0:00] Today's program has been brought to you by White Oak Pastures, a 5 generation Georgia-based beef and poultry farm determined to conduct business in an honorable manner. For more information, visit whiteoakpastures.com. Broadcasting live from Bushwick, Brooklyn, you're listening to Heritage Radio Network.org.

[0:22] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold. Your host of cooking issues coming to you live from Tales of the Cocktail in New Orleans, Louisiana. Nastasia, as always, is back in Bushwick, Bushwick, Brooklyn, or Berber's Pizzeria, with Jack and Joe and the rest of the Heritage Radio gang. How you doing, guys? Good, good. Nastasia was just telling me how much she likes Brooklyn. Yeah? No, I wasn't. Really? Were you actually saying that or is it more anti-hister vitriol? That was a lie. It was a lie. I said, they're having their block party, and I said, I wish I liked Brooklyn so that I could come. Well, let's push their block party. When's the block party? on Saturday. You know what? We'll play the block party commercial. on one of the breaks. It's it's a trip. Yeah, yeah. All right. Block party. If you like going to Brooklyn, and you like block parties, 2 things I actually detest because being outside in the daytime and like large groups of people,

[1:18] like I detest when they shut down, no offense to people who love it, but I detest like street fairs in New York when they shut down whole avenues, and then you like walk up and down and tell the

[1:26] people. You hate that tuna stasia, right? Yeah, hate it. My friends love it. I hate it too. Yeah, it sucks. I mean, who needs it? I can go to a regular store and buy a pair of socks. Isn't that what they sell there? Yeah, but the corn, the corn, I must, is pretty good. Like the corn and butter and chili sauce. All the rape stuff. Yeah. Yeah, arape a fine product, bad name. Yeah, okay. I'll hand it to you on that, but, uh, yeah. The shirts and the sauce. Yeah, all right. Yeah, but all the all the people, and then like, I always need to, we always need to move equipment whenever there's one of those things and then you hit them and then the traffic is insane and all this

[2:01] other, eh, eh. Why doesn't anyone just set up a shop to sell a rapis and corn a real freaking shop? And then you would know, hey, I want like a giant thing of corn dipped in butter with some spice sprayed at that

[2:14] thing, and I could just go to the shop and get that thing. You know what I mean? They have to pay rent at a shop. They, you know, the street fare. There's plenty of things that you have to pay rent for that people go and shop for and purchase. Why not corn? Right, yeah. How much how much is one of those years of corn at the at the thing? say a dollar. It's a dollar? Yeah, come on. I mean, that doesn't cost them almost nothing. I'm sure. I guess the problem is it is seasonal because you're only getting corn in the summer and then what do

[2:39] you what are you dipping butter for the rest of the year? don't know. You know what I mean? Like they don't want to move to like a frozen ear of corn situation. Those things are always disappointing. The frozen ear of corn. you ever had that? You buy the frozen ear of corn in the supermarket and then you try and cook it and you hope it's going to be as good as corn is, you know, in like July, August, but it

[2:57] isn't. No. No, it don't start. You haven't started already, don't start now. How's New Orleans? I mean, I literally, you know, got here, checked into the hotel and then, you know, started doing the research for the show. It's, you know, like you'd expect, hot as hell. Humid, humid. And a cocktail people have already descended. So for those of you who don't know, every year, right around now, there's Tales of the Cocktail, which for the cocktail industry is the biggest kind of, it's the biggest event of the year.

[3:25] you know, like a huge chunk of the kind of whatever you want to call them, cocktail intelligence, whatever the hell you want to call them, from all over the country. In fact, the world, fly in here to learn from each other and, I guess, drink a lot. And they have it in New Orleans in the middle of the summer because no one else wants to be

[3:45] here. And only the cocktail people are dumb enough to come to New York in the, uh, come to New Orleans

[3:50] rather in the middle of the summer when it's a 1000000000 degrees and 100% humidity. But, uh, the advantages hotels are cheap right now. Hotels are cheap here. It's like a 100 bucks a night to stay in New Orleans right now. Nastasia, not a big fan. Not a big fan. Not a big fan. Okay. Now, two, oh, by the way, calling your questions live two, 718-497-2128, that's 718-497-2128. I believe we still have an open line to take a call earn even though I am using one to call in from my hotel room. Uh, for, yeah. 1st question from Fred. Hey, Dave, Nastasia, Jack, Indie Jesus, and all the rest, which by the way, just say, Joe, you don't see all the rest. This is like, this is like one of those situations, uh, this is one of those situations like with the, with the, with the skipper and Mary

[4:35] Ann, with the, with the Gilligans Island, where all they had to do was say one last person, and instead they just say the rest. It's Joe. But they might be on like back podcasts and they haven't caught up yet, you know? Yeah, yeah. All right. Anyway. And remember, Indy Jesus is no longer part of our of our... on the old podcast. might be catching up. Right. Right, right. So you know, Indie Jesus, because he hates Nastasia has quit the shift that's on Tuesdays. We might have to switch our radio show day to match up Indie Jesus's

[5:05] Sunday, Sunday, you know. Sunday, that hour. It's crazy that Jesus works on Sunday though. Anyway, okay. Fred writes in. I recently picked up a turkey roaster. It's a Hamilton Beach model 32503. Is it possible to deep fry one of those things. How good is the temperature control? Thanks, Fred. Okay, so what we're talking about are these ovens that, well, kind of ovens? They look like giant crock pots. Um, this one uh, I looked it up. 18 quart, which is, I think one of the standard sizes. This particular model discontinued. Uh, but they have a pan that you can pull out and wash out. You throw the turkey on top of a rack into the pan, and you roast your turkey, and it theoretically, it's faster. Also, it frees up your oven so that you can, on Thanksgiving time, use your oven for all the rest of the nonsense that you need your oven for and cook your turkey in

[5:52] this in this kind of basically this in-quotes oven. It's kind of like, you know, like a Dutch, it's like cooking in a Dutch oven with its own, its own heat source. Um, and I think I mentioned on the show once or twice that I had one of those that I bought at a thrift shop from the, you know, it was from the 60s or something like

[6:09] that, and I bought it in a thrift shop in college, and I used to bake bread in it. And I loved it. was great. It smells horrible because there was something wrong with the insides of it, but it still worked great and it made great bread. Well, great bread for that. Great bread for a dorm room. Let's put it that way. I mean, I don't, you know, not great bread compared to what our listeners think of as great bread. anyway. Will it work as a deep fryer? It clearly gets hot enough to work as a deep fryer, and I looked up the wattage

[6:33] on a representative one. I couldn't find the exact one to find the wattage, but the wattage is somewhere in the area of 1400 watts. Uh, and uh, you know, I doubt you're going to find a uh, fryer that plugs into a normal socket that's much higher than that. Like maybe it will go up to 1500 watts, maybe a little bit higher, but none of the electric

[6:53] plug-in fryers really have as many watts as I would want them to have.

[6:58] Uh, to, because the key for uh, frying is, of course, uh, fast uh, recovery. Now, uh, Now, the way that these things work is there, the pan uh, that you put into it with the, with the turkey in it rests on the plate that's actually doing the heating. So you're going to have some issue about some heat loss in between the plate and the and the pan. But I'm mostly worried about stuff falling to the bottom and scorching on the bottom as the heater clicks off and on. I don't think the heating control is going to be very accurate at all. But I don't think it's that necessary to have super accurate heat for deep frying, but I think your main problem is going to be scorching of particles on the bottom because a fryer that's really, really good at its

[7:42] chub isn't going to be heating the electrical element. not going to be the very bottom of the unit. The element will be floating somewhat above the surface of the oil. such that particles can fall underneath it and not scorch on the thing that's actually being heated. It's a better way, defy, especially, it doesn't matter so much if you're doing something like donuts because donuts don't throw off a lot of little particles. But if you're doing something like chicken in a batter, and the batter's going to fall off, those little bits of flour get burnt and

[8:10] are going to get massy against the bottom of the pan. That said, it should work. I do not think anyone will actually recommend that you do it because I'm sure the insurance on a fryer is a lot more and you want to make sure you don't have it overflow and ignite and or burn you or scorch you or anything like that. So I'm not going to make any claims to the safety of it, but I mean, it should be able to do an okay job. Now here's the other problem. Uh, 1400 watts is going to be enough power for a small, small fryer to get up really

[8:40] hot really fast, but 1400 watts distributed over something the size of an 18 quart

[8:46] uh, roasting oven is not going to be that much power. And in the end, so even though it's fairly powerful for what would be a home fryer. It's a lot bigger than what a home fryer would be. And so I think it's going to be sucking wind when you throw stuff in it. So if you were to heat it up the temperature and only throw a couple little things in. You might be able to get good results, but I would bet that if you really loaded it down

[9:06] with like, you know, like, you know, a whole fried chicken or something like that, that the temperature would drop drastically and that

[9:12] you'd have some problems. But that's just my guess. If you, um, if you, it is powerful enough for you and you just don't think the temperature control is good enough, you could buy a simple PID, uh, you know, paid temperature

[9:24] controller, and uh, and a thermocouple, and bypass the thermostat entirely. Just plug it. you don't want PID. You got to switch it, turn it off of PID, which is going to be a very accurate temperature control. And for deep frying, you want on off. But most good PID controllers that you buy, you can turn them into on off controllers, right? So PID controller, like it's just going to slowly get up to the temperature and not overshoot. You don't care if you overshoot a little bit. You just want it to get up there fast. So as soon as the temperature of the oil drops, you want it to go on full blast. But then you could have an external control that can be very accurate and well, it's accurate as an on off or bang, bang, thermostat can be. And that wouldn't add that much to the cost, but you might have a power problem. What do you think stars? This is a good answer. Good answer. All right. From Colin, dearest y'all. Could you revive this question? Are pressure cooked jams a good idea? So I had to go back. Uh, I think it was in May and found uh, Collins question on pressure cooked jams. A few weeks ago. Um, I bought a whole boatload of uh, kumquats uh, and made marmalade and then they wanted, he wanted to know, could marmalade

[10:31] or jam, jam in general, be prepared in a pressure cooker to prevent the loss of volatile flavors because he realized that the smell that he

[10:38] was uh, that was coming off of the pot was a smell that was being lost,

[10:43] right? That's the theory, right? Uh, and so, basically, he says, what I understand is happening is that the boiling temperature of the uh, marmalade or jam solution increases as water is being boiled off, and that's stopping at a particular temperature and a pressure

[10:57] cook. I mean, sorry, stopping at a particular temperature when you're cooking a jam is equivalent to stopping at a particular hydration level or amount of water or, you know, or

[11:06] the solid level is in it. Uh, and that we add extra water to a jam recipe because the

[11:11] pected needs time uh, to cook and break out, um, and, and there, there you have it. So the question is, could he seal the mixture in a pressure cooker and cook the jam without losing water or volatiles and get an equivalent texture with improved

[11:27] flavor? The boiling temperature will increase at the increased pressure. But do you think that will affect the pectin slash, you know, properties of the jam overall? I suppose there could be more thermal breakdown, a flavor in a pressure cooker, uh, despite the decreased loss of volatiles, what are my thoughts? Okay. Well, if you're going to do it, this 1st of all, here's the here's the issue. If you knew, uh, I'd have to do some research and maybe during the commercial break, I can look it up because I forgot to look it up, but you need, what you need to know is the actual solids level of the

[11:59] uh, jam that you're, that you're shooting for. If the solids level, the bricks is reasonable. Like in the, on the order of 60% or, or, or thereabouts. Uh, 70% even, then you could, uh, probably just add the ingredients to a jar in a pressure cooker,

[12:21] uh, seal it. So even if you had a venting pressure cooker, which I don't like using, I like using non-venting pressure cookers in general because they, I think they do a better job with flavor. But if you're sealing in a canning jar, it doesn't make much difference. Uh, and and pressure cook it, uh, at that higher temperature, you could conceivably get

[12:42] uh, a product that will work. But you have to know beforehand what the solid level of the fruit pulp

[12:52] is, and then therefore calculate how much sugar to add to it, and you'd have to get it fairly accurate. Uh, that is all doable. And if, I don't know, maybe if Jack or Joe has the time to research while we're talking the bricks level, BRI, X level of

[13:08] jam or jelly, we could do a ballpark estimate of whether or not it's feasible to just add all the ingredients, sugar, fruit,

[13:17] et cetera, into a jar and pressure cook it. But I mean, it might be possible. I don't know. It would be difficult because you'd have to make sure you got it right every time. Does that make sense? Yeah, you have a color. Oh, color, you are on the air. Hey, Dave. Hey, Jack. Hey, Stas. How it going? This is Matt from, this is Matt from Chicago. Howdy. Hi, I had a question about low temperature cooking of skirt steak. Um, I tried it. sous vide with a recipe I found on the web and it was as tough as had I cooked it for, you know, over

[13:50] a flame for hours. I'm wondering if you had any ideas on how to get better results. Give me the recipe that you used. You know, I don't remember. That's the problem. I think it was the one on the polyscience website. How long did you cook it? Jeez, it seems like maybe 2 hours. Yeah. And uh, so he, here's, here's the thing. So if you're cooking a skirt steak. Uh, I like to do skirt steak, uh, low temp, but what temperature you cook the skirt steak to is entirely

[14:25] dependent upon how long you cook it, right? So if you're only going to cook the skirt steak for a couple of hours, you're going to need to go fairly high. Like, uh, uh, 57 Celsius, let's say, which is a good number, 57 Celsius. If you're going to do it for like an hour or 45 minutes or an hour and a half like that. Then you have to cool it down and then sear it, because the skirt steak is so thin that if you, um, if you were to try to sear it directly out of the circulator, just overcook and you might as well not have done low temp at

[14:55] all. Okay? Okay, I think I did. I think I did see it afterwards immediately. Yeah. I mean, you have to see it afterwards, really, or the texture is not going to be very, very good. You know, but, you know, go ahead. Yeah, the other way to do it is to cook it down near where you'd cook a ribeye. So like 55 Uh, for a long time, like uh, 9, 9, 10 hours. Uh, or, you know, and then let it, let it cool down again, and then uh, just take it and hard, hard sear it, and that will actually warm up the inside and overcook the outside a little bit, but that's going to give a really, really high quality tender skirt steak.

[15:37] Okay. If you, the alternative, right, is to sear it

[15:43] beforehand like it's a normal skirt steak, and then just quickly throw it into, into, uh, into like

[15:50] a, uh, a bag and uh, let it, let it come up the temp in a circulator. The problem is your crust isn't going to be that great afterwards. Yeah. You know what I mean? That's really a good candidate. It isn't a good candidate for the double seer. I take it. Or is it? Well, you can't, you can't. I've done a double seer on it, and what the advantage of the double seer is that the 2nd time you sear it, it's going to color and crust up really quickly.

[16:15] Um, but, you know, then you, you might, might run the problem that, you know, something goes wrong and you,

[16:21] and you, um, uh, and you, you know, dry it out a little bit. I would definitely not on skirt steak pre-sear it before you low temp it. Um, because it's going to cure through fairly quickly with the salt. I would definitely, I mean, pepper is fine or whatever or whatever marinade you want, but I would not, uh, I would not salt it, um, until right before the 2nd seer. Okay, that's interesting. I actually use a lime juice in my marinade and it just makes it absolutely delicious. And I usually just do it the standard, you know, just

[16:53] see it in a real hot pan after it's marinated a while and don't even bother with low temp, but I figured I'd try it. I've got a I got a rig in my basement for, for low temp cooking, for sous vide, and I figured I'd try it because, you know, I'm trying everything sous vide now that I got the rig. Uh, and some things have turned out really good, but the skirt steak is one thing that did not. And I was just curious if you had any thoughts. So, I appreciate it. Here, here, here's who it is. Do this and you're going to, you're going to love this. This is what this is the way that I actually cook skirt steak, right? I would do it. I would not sear it beforehand. Uh, I would do your, do your, your marinade or whatever else you want to do, put it in the bag, cook it. If you don't have the time, 57 for, like I say, like an hour,

[17:34] so, or like 55 for longer, like six, seven, whatever hours, it's going to get more

[17:39] tender. Let it cool down, and then you can even have it in the fridge, pull it out, and do your hard sear on it, just like you were cooking it normally, and what you'll just

[17:47] have is you can focus on that crust, and you just have a much more tender skirt steak on the inside than you would with a normal cooking technique.

[17:53] I'll give that a shot, then. Alrighty, let us know how it worked. All right, thanks a lot, guys. We'll talk to you later. Hi, no, bro. You have another call, Dave. What? You have another call. Okay, call her, you're on the air. Hi, yeah, afternoon. are you? I'm doing all right. All right, so, um, I'm a bit of a home brewer, and, um, I've been doing a little bit of shopping on modernist pantry,

[18:18] and, um, I've been I've been referred to you, uh, to a solution for a problem that I've been having. Um I've been working on making cream liqueur. Um, and uh, I've purchased some sodium quesinate, um, from the modernist pantry, and I, I was initially under the impression that that might help me to combine my dairy with my alcohol that I've been producing. And it, it, it's stable for a little while, but I'll let it sit out at room

[18:47] temperature for about 6 hours, and I put it next to a very small amount of already store-bought cream liqueur, and the

[18:56] store-bought Cream liqueur remains stable. However, um, mine, it doesn't split, uh, per se, the, um, the dairy molecules from the water molecules. Um, it just separates into layers as as a thicker, um, homogenized cream on the top and a more watery, less viscous liquid on the bottom. Um, I'm I'm doing further research and I'm I'm finding out that. uh, glycerol, uh, monastery might help me out, GSM, um, but I was wondering if you had any advice as far as to how I would implement the GSM, if I were to obtain some, and if I may be using the, uh, the sodium

[19:46] case incorrectly. Okay, well, I, I, uh, I mean, I have a lot of uh, experience with emulsified alcoholic beverages, but not making cream

[19:59] liquors uh, as such. Uh, what, what, you're using actual cream? With fatness? I did one batch with a little with a splash of cream, and then I did another batch with a splash of milk. Um, I also tried to use making my own, uh, uh, condensed cream and using condensed, like, uh, you know, with, I, I think I used malt, malt powder, a little bit of sugar, and milk, and a little bit of vanilla, and

[20:28] I made, like, a condensed, condensed milk, and you just tried to use that. I thought maybe the sugar would be a decent buffer to help bind the dairy to the liquor. Um, I don't know if maybe my alcohol content is something that might be affecting

[20:41] it. I'm at about 22% alcohol content. So I'm not sure. But you're, you're, you're, yeah, so you're not curdling it all. You're just getting phase separation. Yes. Yeah. Um, I mean, I'm guessing that, I mean, I don't, I've never researched like, uh, like Bailey's or anything like that, uh, to

[21:02] see like what the fat content of Bailey's is. But if you're getting a phase separation, it just sounds like you need an emulsifier in there. Um, you know, uh, and you know, what you're mentioning is, you know,

[21:16] is an emulsifier, the one that I typically use in, uh, in the drinks at Booker and

[21:22] Dax, is probably won't work for your application, uh, or it might, is a mixture, and this is not what the

[21:29] cream liqueur people use at all, but is a mixture of, it's gum Arabic, which acts as an emulsifier, and

[21:36] Xanthan, which acts as a stabilizer. Now, you probably want to go to kind of a more of a hardcore, uh, emulsifier. When you get when you when the face when you get the face separation, if you just rock it back and forth, does it go back together

[21:49] or no? It, uh, I've actually, it does to an extent, but I think it's more of like the temperature that it's been sitting at for a while because all the ingredients, I'm, I'm mixing them sort of like the dairy is just from the fridge.

[22:06] You know, I haven't gone. I haven't been able to sit down and test it from letting the dairy sit out at room temperature. I also found that heat became a factor in the initial combination. Uh, it was important that the that the dairy was warm. in order to get the emulsification to work initially. Um, and then once it cools down and it sits and it settles at room temperature for a while. It eventually separates. Um, and I can get it to come back together. But then once I let it sit for about another half hour after, you know,

[22:37] uh, spinning it back together, it'll separate again. I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I, like, uh, this is an interesting thing. I should know, I should know this, just because of, you know, what I do for a living. So what I what I'm going to do is I'm going to figure out what they do in the industry to make cream liqueurs and whether or not the, what the fat level, if any, is of those things and kind of figure out how they do it. Uh, and then I'll come back probably not next week because next week, I don't know if I'm going to be able to have the, the radio show because I'm going to be in the air on the way to um, California, I think. But the week after that, I'm going to come back and answer that question. I'll give you a much more definitive answer, okay? Okay. Um, and if, uh, if by chance are you, you are in the city right now, right? I'm in New Orleans, the Tales of the Cocktail. Oh, you. Oh, okay. I was under the impression that you were in in Manhattan or in New York City. Um, all right. Um, well, would it, would you be able to also, I mean, I know that you say you're going to be going back on the air with these answers, but

[23:37] was there really any way you might be able to contact me directly? Uh, it's possible. Give uh, when you, when you go off, give uh, give Jack uh, your info or maybe we could uh, tweet it out or something like that, alright? All right. Thank you very much for your time. Lastly, do you would you think that if I were to purchase some closer on monastery? Do you think that that might be a decent avenue to approach? I just don't, I don't, I don't want to, I don't want to say yes or no off the top of my head

[24:05] without, uh, really doing the research on it. All right. Thank you very much for your time. Hi, cool. All right, so right before we take a break. Right before we take the break. Joe, uh, Gargano writes in, by the way, is from New Haven, which is where the, anyway, so Jack wanted to know, does anyone want the Pluto, the,

[24:26] the, the music from my college days? And we got the 1st person in says that they like that. He hears what he writes. I wrote a few months back about soy whipped cream. Your advice helped, and I made some adjustment. It turns out that soft tofu, coconut milk, and some stabilizers works great right out of the siphon, the whipped cream siphon. But more importantly, I want more Bluto. This crap is heavy. Do we have a link to any of this anywhere? So Jack, we have someone that wants the blue, though. Wow. There it is. So when you return... Yeah. Unfortunately, Joel, no Pluto today because it's only on my iPhone and we don't have it actually copied over

[25:01] on to the Heritage Radio. So we're going to have to go because enough of the cheesy jazz. No offense, I like jazz. Plus, he also wants pictures of me getting my face smashed in on stage, which I don't think actually

[25:13] exists. unfortunately. But, you know, he wants like stage diving picks and stuff like that. And then he, he, his suggestion is that we start a band where, uh, you know, I guess he's going to come in and start, start a band with us where we write about my art reactions

[25:27] in Agar, Agar clarification. And he wants to call it my art and the reactors. He's going to let me have bass solos and every song, but he only wants to do it if we can get ND Jesus to be the front man. What do you think, Jack? We'll have to say that's going to be tough. in high demand. Yeah, I'm sure every band in Bushwick wants Indie Jesus as the front man. Why wouldn't they? Yeah, right? I mean, even Nastasia would go to see Indie Jesus as a front man and she hates hipster bands. Love bands. Nastasia, by the way, like her, one of her great lifetime skills is to be able to get into any any concert for free and go backstage without having to perform any sort of awful

[26:04] acts. I retired that. You're tired, but it's like it's a, you know, it's a great skill. It's like I can shotgun a beer very well, also a retired skill of mine. I don't go around stocking beers anymore. Jimmy Fallon show. It wasn't retired. It hasn't been retired. I didn't shotgun a beard in any Fallon show. You asked if you could. Remember? I was joking. joking. Plus, they only have, by the way, for those of you who don't know, we're on a Jimmy Fallon show. And one of their sponsors is Bud Light Platinum, which is basically Bud

[26:33] Light, where they add some extra booze to it. It's like straight up, they add extra booze and they put it in like a blue bottle that looks like kind of like a Saratoga water, a tiny

[26:41] bottle. But you can't shotgun out of a bottle style. It shows that you know about. You asked them if they had cans so that you could shot. Yes. A joke, a joke. I no longer shotgun, although I am quite good at that. I'm tired. Anyway, uh, okay, so why don't we go to our 1st commercial work, come back with more cooking issues.

[27:19] ' put it

[27:26] go you got the gotta be riding somewhere real real way to go mind It's just a memory home now, but it just keeps you clean, where you from the village, the street, put you down, and I'm coming home, don't rain, man,

[27:55] then, too calm, mommy, go to love. got nothing wrong Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Why those pastors is a 146 year old

[28:10] multigenerational family farm that works in cooperation with nature, to produce artisans,

[28:16] meat, that is safe, healthy, nutritious, and good to eat. Without fail, we ensure that our production practices are economically practical, ecologically

[28:28] sustainable, and that the animals are always humanely treated. We never falter in our determination to conduct our business in an honorable

[28:37] mind. For more information, visit wideoakpastages.com. You're currently listening to Brothers, NYC, Real Long Way to Go, bandfronted by our very own Damon Bolte. And we're coming back. We pop is on the air. Wait, Damon Bolty fronts a band? Yeah. Well, I guess he's not the front man, but he's the lead guitar. That's his band. Is his twin also in the band? Yeah, that's why they're called brothers. Oh, yeah, it's hard for me to hear over the telephone. I can't hear anything. So we got we got WePop SoupyPot slash Bam on the phone? Yes. Hi, Dave, my son, Dan Jack. Hi. We bop. What's up? How's everything going? Going well. So for those of you that don't know what's going on, uh, we pop soupy pot, a.k.a. to the rest of the world, bam, uh, just got his Kickstarter, uh, fully funded, and

[29:31] they're making a, uh, relatively low cost, simple to use at

[29:36] home emersion circulator. Uh, and uh, what's the cost of this sucker? Uh, it is 359. 359. All right, 359. And, uh, you know, I don't know, go on the key. how do you buy one of these suckers? So right now, Kickstarter campaign's closed. Uh, so you just go to shop.namiku.com. to a pre-order one. Now, what's your ETA for actual units? ETA for um, by Christmas? Yeah, we have a lot of demands. We're going to give priority to the Kickstarter people. But, um, we're still working that out. It should be the same match. We'll see. So, uh, uh, I hear that you have uh, something to discuss over the cooking issues airwave regarding this. Oh, well. Silence. Sorry, sorry, I guess not. No, I didn't, I didn't hear you. Oh, you told me you wanted to speak about Ziploc bags. Oh, no, no, um, so yeah, we have, we have a lot of emails, uh, coming in. You know, people being concerned with Ziploc bags and, you know, I, I feel like a lot of people still have uh, issues with cooking and plastic. So, what we've been doing. Specifically, zip, zip, ziplocs, though, as opposed to, you know, you're not getting any calls in with questions about cooking

[31:07] in sous vide cooked chill bags, right? You have people calling with questions on, on the, um, the wisdom of using Ziploc bags, uh, for cooking low temp, right? Right, now. Uh, well, here's, here's, here's my, my thought, and the reason, I guess, is because uh, on your Kickstarter uh, campaign

[31:29] video. There is a uh, a picture of someone putting food in a Ziploc to, um, to do the, the cooking with the, with your device. What's your device called again? Uh, Benamiku? Namiku. N-O-M-I-K-U. S, not me Crew. Yeah, Namiku. So, um, my feeling on the block bags. I think I might have told the story once, but you know, I could tell it again. Uh, I was doing the Martha Stewart show, uh, and they they decided to just have like a bunch of like tech fools on. So, uh, you know, Nathan was on via Mirvold was on via, you know,

[32:05] uh, he wasn't actually on. They showed, you know, she did a tour month. Stuart did a tour of his lab there and they had Grand Aikis was on and I was on. And so I was talking to Grant backstage, Grant A gets, of course, from Millennia. I was talking backstage that he was getting, um, a lot of flack from S.A. Johnson Wax, a family company, which I believe the people that make the Ziploc bag. Uh, and uh, basically, they yelled at him because he had a video on the web where he was using a

[32:34] Ziploc to do, um, to do his low temperature cooking. And, uh, and I think it's really strange that they have a problem with it, or that anyone has a problem with it, because the Ziploc bags are rated for

[32:49] reheating uh, in a nuke. Right? I mean, says right on it that you can reheat stuff in them in a nuke. The issue is, um, like a Ziploc bag, and I could be wrong, but I'm not, is made out of polyethylene. And food, food grade, obviously, polyethylene. And, uh, it's the same stuff that, um, uh, most plastic wrap is made out of polyethylene. And uh, what it can't do is get anywhere near the boiling because, boiling point of water, 100 C, because

[33:25] it, it gets very, very soft there and that's very close to the melting point. However, it works fine in the

[33:34] 50s and I never really take it above the low 60s ever because I don't have a need

[33:39] to, Celsius, that is. Um, But in that range, uh, they are perfectly fine. And I, I can't understand any argument, uh, against using ziploc bags, uh, for cooking low temp at those temperatures, so long as you aren't assuming that you're preserving something for any length of

[34:03] time because you haven't put a vacuum seal on it. So long as you're not heating it above any other, you know,

[34:09] above in the 60s somewhere. I can't see any argument whereby cooking in any form of plastic would be okay and not in a

[34:16] ziploc under those circumstances. Um, do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, um, the food savers, and a lot of, you know, side stealers that are on the market, they're using the same kind of material, and somehow, somehow, those are being like promoted for used with, uh, you know,

[34:36] like this goofy supreme or whatever. Right, well, you know, I just, well, those cookshill bags. Like even cookshields, I mean, polyethylene is a good choice and I'm having a little trouble hearing you, but polyethylene is a good choice for, um, for food

[34:51] applications just because it doesn't have to have plasticizers in it. Uh and it doesn't react with food. Uh, very much. Usually those bags that were rated to higher temperatures will have multiple, multiple plastic layers. Uh, and so that they keep their uh, integrity at at higher temperatures. Uh, But again, again, like most of this is completely moot because we're keeping our temperatures very much lower than is ever going to be a

[35:18] problem when we're using low temperature cooking. So I just, I literally, except for the fact that Johnson, S.C. Johnson

[35:25] Wax, doesn't, I believe it, Tessie Johnson Wax, does not want to, uh, have any sort of liability from saying you can cook in their bags as opposed to, you know, reheating in a very specific

[35:37] way because they don't want to assume that liability. They just say you can't do it. And then that, them saying you can't do it is just getting promulgated on the, on the, on the, on the web and by people. I mean I don't really understand any other sort of argument. I would love to hear from somebody what that argument is, but I haven't

[35:54] heard uh, I haven't heard any good reasons. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And also, uh, thanks for the mention last time on uh, Hardish radio. So our Namiku is actually 750 watts. And uh, some people have been saying, oh, that, you know, that's too low, whatever. But then I think, I think for the purpose of, um, maintaining perfect temperatures. I think 750 W is way more than enough. What do you think? Well, that was the one question I had when I talked about it, uh, on the air was, uh, I mean, like, what was the reason you went 750 instead of the full 1000 that uh, most of the other companies are using? Well, that's just the uh, uh, the type of heaters that we're using. And um, for, for the size that we're able to get it down to, um, we, we've matched it up with 750 watts. We've had some 1000 watts prototype, however. But, um, it doesn't, it doesn't make, it doesn't make much of a difference like how fast, like, you can, you can heat the water. Well, what size bath were you testing on? Relatively the same. Uh, just the regular, um, I think the 12, 12 liter, like fence. Yeah, I mean, the ones where like the, you know, the, the, the 1000 watt, uh, circulators start crapping out. Uh, anytime you go above a normal full size Lexan. Uh, and then they start they start sucking wind. Um, so, I mean, I think it, what, just what you're doing by any, by, you know, any sort of power limitation, what you're doing is you're, you're, um,

[37:36] you're, you're just tapping the upper size of the water bath that you can reliably heat with

[37:42] it. Um, you're also capping the recovery rate of it when you drop a

[37:49] large uh, food load into it. So the, for instance, you know, you, you simply, you can't maintain

[37:58] easily any temperature, also, it also depends on the temperatures you're trying to get to. It's a lot easier to get, uh, you know, a water bath up to 55 Celsius, let's say, than it is to get a water bath up to 85 Celsius, let's say, because there's a lot more losses to the

[38:15] atmosphere because the water wants to go off a lot more as vapor at those

[38:19] temperatures. And so you're having to put a lot more energy in. You're getting, you know, you know, it's proportionally uh, a higher temperature relative to ambient, and so you have to drive it harder because you have higher heat losses out of your out of your uh,

[38:32] your vessel. So, um, a normal 1000 watt circulator in a, in a large Lexan that's, you know, uh, higher than the one that I normally recommend, I can't really get it to go above about

[38:46] 55 and I can't ha, it doesn't really drive an accurate temperature at those levels.

[38:52] Uh, you know, when you drop big loads into them. And so I only recommend using giant baths like that with a circulator, for reheat, where the temperature isn't as accurate, the temperature, the need for accuracy isn't as high. So, you know, if you were cooking a smaller, uh, in a smaller vessel, like a

[39:11] half-leck sand, let's say, then I'm sure 750 watts is fine.

[39:16] But my question would be, is, is like, how would a 750 perform in a full-size Lexan versus a 1000 one? I don't know. I've never I've never done it. You know what I mean? So I can't tell you. Um, I mean, but those are just my concerns. I would bet for the, for 90% of the people, if you were going to work at home, very few people at home need to drive anything bigger than a half

[39:38] Lex hand. Right. And that's right. That's why we've designed the Namiku to work with, you know, pots of any size from

[39:47] 3 quarts and up. So we actually, uh, that was the size that we had in mind and um, 750 watts is more than adequate. So those, you know, anything, anything bigger than, um, than

[40:01] the lifespan than, you know, you're going a little bit overboard. It's up for, for, for a house. Yeah. I mean, yeah, by the way, we pop, uh, you know, you're in Bangkok now, right? No, actually, I'm in San Francisco. I think, oh, and you're coming here soon. Yeah, yeah, I had. I might not. So, uh, we, we, we pop as a product designer, but also went to the French culinary institute and and worked with us. So he knows that we can very easily overstuff a full-size Lexand, but this isn't designed for that. It's designed for people at home, right? Right. But when are you going to get one for us to play with? Uh, as soon as possible. We're about, we're about to go into, um, production in China. I leave, uh, at least San Francisco on August 1st and, uh, we'll, we'll be in China for a long time until, um, we'll, we'll supervise everything until delivery, basically. All right. Well, well, listen, congratulations on the new product, and I might just miss you. I think I fly out when you fly, you fly back. When you get back in the country. Oh, you know, come and come and say howdy. We love, we love ourselves some we pop. But yeah, for anyone out there who's never been football grand backstage

[41:17] bar, um, in New York City, you need to go because not only that, um, the cocktails are amazing. If you take your dates there, it's gonna feel the deal. Hey, check this out. For those of you that don't know, we pop was our very 1st caller ever into the radio show. ever. Is that true? Yeah, we pop, very 1st caller of all times. And from Bangkok, by the way, and, and, you know, for those of you who go to the bar, we have a Thai basil drink on the menu, but I don't know why they call it Thai

[41:51] basil because, you know, we're actually going to make a holy basil drink coming up soon because we have a regular Italian

[41:57] globe style basil drink that we really like, but we don't want to put 2 basil drinks on the menu because that's

[42:02] weird. But if we put 3 basilics on, and turns out Nastasia grows a boatload of holy basil in her backyard. What about that, we pop? That sounds great. Yeah. We're just going to call the drink holy basil. Holy basil. That's what we're gonna call the drink. What do you think? Sounds good, right? I don't know what's in it yet. We got to get the basil and play around with it, but it's going to be there. Don't worry about it. We going to have like, we're going to have 3 basil drinks. We going to go basil crazy for the for the mid-summer push. All basil all the time. Anyway All right, we probably, listen, have a good time in China, building your product. We can't wait. Congratulations on the new venture. All right, thank you so much. Bye. Alrighty. All right, so let's take one more quick break and come back with a little more cooking issues. Message from Bushwick Block Party on Saturday, July 28th, from noon to midnight.

[42:58] Saturday. Saturday, Saturday. Saturday, July 28th. It's a party in the street. Yes, I am La Calle. La Musica, soft spa. Silicone, sister. Eyes. You're used, natural child. Tournament, NC Todd experience, featuring Full Breezy, Sam Weiss, and Boston's best hip hop group, Gray Sky

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[44:00] Brother, Imperial Woodpecker Snowball. Dessert by Katie P. Cookie Robin, Brooklyn Star. Sponsored by in Spanish. Vitamin one. Wonkon Blue. Wonka bands. Martin Greenfield Clothier. Momo Sushi Shack. Roberto. Dep covers a Bushwick. Green fitness. Heritage Radio Network.org. Main Drag. Dr. Bobby Booka, dermatology. Jelly J NYC. from 12 to 2. I'll supplies last, admitted to one margarita pizza per person. Acoustic performances from Dear Old Pals and free advice. No sharks will be harmed in making this block party. Possible performance from Joe Bishop, Bishop. Some weird thing happened with the phone. Sorry, dogs out there. Must have been that block party commercial. Hey, we've only got a few minutes left, Dave. All right, cool. So I have one last question. So I'll take it right now. Brian writes in. Hi, guys, yeah. They saw on star chefs that you guys use grade C maple syrup at the bar. What does it taste like? I want the smokiest, earthiest, funkiest, funky, syrup that there

[45:08] is, when I Google around, I'm buying some. I saw that it's only for commercial applications. I also saw that they may have changed the rating system, so the grade C is now grade B. Also, the Canadian rating system is different. What's the deal? and where can I get it? Thanks again, Brian. All right, Brian. Uh, what I did was, I called up the maple syrup, uh,

[45:28] producer, and said, hey, listen, can I have some grave sea, uh, maple syrup? I know you have it, and he said, all right. Don't tell anyone, uh, because I guess you didn't have a label for it or whatever, they poured it into a quart, you know, container. Uh, you know, a quart, uh, maple syrup container to slap 2 B's on it, which was the code for C grade,

[45:50] and, uh, and, yeah, I bought it at the, at the regular price. Now, uh, those of you that didn't hear anything before that we say, the sea grade maple syrup, uh, basically, maple syrup when it starts its run at the beginning of the season, is the lightest and kind of least, uh, has the least conjure,

[46:08] the least kind of flavor in it, and then as the season progresses, it gets more and more conjure, and gets

[46:13] darker, and has uh, kind of more and more different, different flavors. I like degrades being. Uh, but it can be a little weird. It doesn't necessarily play nice, uh, with other ingredients, the way, uh, that B does. I mean, I, I, I use bee and cooking at home. I use B on pancakes. Uh, I use bee and drinks and I think every bartender I know uses bee and drinks. Uh, see, was a little rough on some of the drinks that we tried it out. I like it. It's really intense, but it can almost go metallic in certain, uh, in certain applications, but it's definitely something you should try, um, to, uh, have

[46:53] around, and uh, hopefully that helps. This has been cooking issues.

[47:10] Fishes, fish, vodka. Oh, you did. Got me on this corner And I don't know. Thanks for listening to this program on Heritage Radio Network.org. You can find all of our archive programs on our website or as podcasts in the iTunes store by searching Heritage Radio Network. You can like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter at Heritage underscore radio. You can email us questions at any time at info@heritageradionetwork.org. HeritageRadio Network as a nonprofit organization to donate and become a member, visit our website today.

[47:49] Thanks for listening.