[0:00] Today's program has been brought to you by White Oak Pastures, a 5 generation Georgia-based beef and poultry farm determined to conduct business in an honorable manner. For more information, visit whiteoakpastures.com. Broadcasting live from Bushwick, Brooklyn, you're listening to HeritageRadioNetwork.org.

[0:22] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, their host of cooking issues coming to you live from Roberta's Pizzeria on the Heritage Radio

[0:31] Network every Tuesday from 12 to 1245. Joined in the studio with Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. And of course, Jack and Joe in the engineering booth. How you guys doing? Doing all right? Yeah, microphones aren't working over there, but they're doing good. How you doing, Stas? Yeah, Nastasia is trying to find someone who's willing to move the crap out of our studio area in Brooklyn, in the back of Milk Bar

[0:54] Commissery, to our new space on 54 Eldridge Street,

[0:58] which Intel Eater actually showed up. They did not believe that we were not trying to open another bar there. Yeah. And when they showed up, we're like, here's one desk. Here's another desk. Look, a 3rd desk. And they're like, oh, so it's not going to be. we're like, no, no. No, it's our, it's our, it's, you know, it's Booker and Dax equipment company. It's our test our test place. But anyway, turns out that movers here in New York, unlike when you move it yourself, which is what Nastasia and I had to do last time,

[1:25] make you put everything in a box. It's equipment. How the hell do you put a big piece of equipment in a box? I'm supposed to just go get giant like washing machine boxes to put everything in? They said or shrink wrap it. So we use that like, or shrink wrap it? What is shrink wrapping doing? I think you covered in plastic. But how's that helpful other than I get to destroy the earth a little more. their trucks. They don't want to scratch the trucks with the equipment. The insides of the truck. They don't want to scratch the inside of a moving truck. With stuff that they're moving. This is it. This is happening in the real life. This is what's really happening. Okay, then. Hey, our mic works and we're doing well. Yeah? Nice. Good. strong. Good. I was a little worried about you. I was pretty sure that there was still air in the booth though, and that you were breathing. Hey, do you know about our fundraising party? Can I shamelessly plug that right now? Are you doing it, Army Jack? You must plug away. Yeah, you're doing drinks. I am? Yeah. El Bujo Mezcal and we've got Absolute. We've got a whole bunch of stuff. September ninth at Roberta's from 5 to 8 PM. It's our 1st fundraiser. How much are tickets? 150. And where do they purchase said tickets? That is heritageradionetwork.eventbright.com. Yeah. Nice. And we'll take some of our techniques and put your money where your mouth is with our beverage,

[2:43] right? about Gramercy Tavern and Del Posto. I think Brooks is doing desserts and You wrangled Brooks into doing it? Wrangle Brook. Brooks will be there. Nice. Yep. Back 40 West, China Pacifico, Inside Park, St.

[2:56] Barts, Inside Park, at St. Barts. Bunch of other chefs would be really cool. Nice, nice. And it's here at the at the Roberta's Pizzeria? Yep, in the backyard. Yeah, so if you've never made the trek out to Brooklyn. Now's your chance. Now's your chance to cross that river. You can meet us. And maybe Indie Jesus may be working. I'm just putting that out there. I don't know Oh, now you have to make it happen, Jack. I might have to make that happen. Yeah, you know, I'll see what strings I can pull. It's not an easy get. Yeah, Nastasia, you're going to come to the gig, right? Yes. Yeah, so you can come see Nastasia and like, I think everyone should wear their best hipster outfit to come

[3:30] and visit Nastasia at the... And you can get pictures with me in Indie Jesus. If Indy Jesus actually shows up. Well, he works on Sundays. That's what we, he's anti-anti-Jesus. No, you got to get your your your your Bible straight. First of all... That's supposed to work, but like one of the things that if you read the, if you read the, um, kind

[3:53] of, uh, you know, the apocryphal gospels, like one of the things Jesus used to get in trouble for all the

[3:58] time was healing people on the Sabbath. Aren't you supposed to stay in Jersey? Well, no, those gospels never made it into Jersey Speak. But, yeah, so he used to do things like, you know, cure people on the Sabbath, and that's one of the things he got in trouble for. You know, curing people at work. Work. You think that stuff just happens, curing people? Work. Anyway. okay. Um, let me catch some stuff from before that I missed from a couple weeks ago. Barry Muncasey wrote in because I don't think I got this. Question on Twitter, clearly I am overcooking or people are overcooking shrimp and shrimp boil. I didn't talk about this, did I say? don't think so. Uh, shrimp, sausage, corn, onion, potato, garlic, and Zataran spice, uh, perfect sous vide timing recipe. That's on with us? I don't remember. I don't remember whether I talked about it or not, but I think you might have. Did I? I feel like it might have. Wait, don't cook shrimp sous vide. Just cook all the parts separately, perfectly and then recombine them at the end. Yeah, yeah, you're right. did. I talked about shrimp shells. Delicious, delicious shrimp shells. Yeah, okay. All right. All right, Barry, I got you covered. But I know what this I did not mention. Pavlov at Pavlov, or Pavlov, on the Twitter, sent in a picture to us of how he cooked 25,000 lobsters in a

[5:07] 5 day period at a festival in Maine, using something that looked like a steam giant kind of steam cleaner, huge pieces of

[5:15] equipment. And his exact quote is, I felt bad until I ate them. Hopefully he did not eat all 25,000. The most I've ever eaten in one day is 10. Uh, and uh, that was the same day I found out I was allergic to cherries. So they thought it was lobsters for a long time that I was allergic to until cherry season came around the next year and sent me to the hospital again. crazy, right? Nutty. Anyways, so I had something else to say about that. Oh yeah, when I was a kid, check this out. For any of you that, um, I don't know, clean aircraft equipment for a living, there used to be an, in Oshkosh, every year in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, there's what's called a fly-in, where

[5:48] all, all the kind of experimental aircraft lunatics from all over, everywhere, and also the old war bird, uh, nutties and everything show up and they fly in

[5:55] and Oshkosh airport is for that couple of days the busiest airport in the world. And you go there and my dad used to fly seaplanes a lot. So we used to go to the seaplane party, which was a little off the way because you had to have a lake. And those guys had a giant, like, beer brots in 55 gallon drums and corn that they would cook in the steam cleaners that they would use to steam

[6:18] clean parts, like giant, steam cleaned corn. That's what I used to eat as a kid. Maybe that's part of what influenced me to get to use dumb equipment to cook with. What do you think? Yeah? Possible, right? Okay. Now, on to current questions. Hi, Dave, Nastasia and Jack. Shout out to Indie Jesus. And I'm going to have to add via shout out to Joe. Remember, guys, give the shout out to Joe. He is a singer in a, he's the front man of some sort of like hardcore punk band, true or

[6:46] false. True. Why have we not heard any of the music on the radio program? Uh, maybe one of these days. So if you don't give him a shout out, he is going, he is going to come find you. pretty much, right? I'm extremely scary person as well. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you probably don't know him unless you're here in the studio with us. I mean, you might know him separately, but in other words, yeah, odds are you don't. And he's a he's a scary man. He'll come find you. I'm just telling you. I'm telling you should give him a shout out, that's all. Okay. So Eddie Shepard writes in, I have a quick question, and also below a free, well, free from me. Not for you. Anyway, kidding. A link to the copy of my e-book. Okay, as a longtime listener and having asked the odd question on the show before, I was hoping it was okay to ask a question slightly away from the tech side of things and more on aesthetics and subjectivity. I wonder to what extent you thought about the presentation of food affected the experience of eating it, whether it is something you see

[7:38] is critical to a dish, and if there are any examples or anecdotes you have relating to food either looking horrible and tasting amazing, or vice versa, beautifully

[7:46] presented but let down in flavor. I personally think that the setting you're in and the aesthetics of a dish can potentially have a big psychological influence on your enjoyment of the food, but also the

[7:54] flavors 1st and foremost. If I can make a delicious dish look nice, then great, I will, but if altering

[7:59] it to look compromises flavor, I wouldn't. I wonder what your thoughts might be, and also if there's anything you might favor stylistically in food presentation. Okay. That's a great question. I think there's a very famous Spanish chef, very famous mercurial Spanish chef, actually, that Nils and I were doing, I think it was Nils and

[8:21] I, might have been even before Nils was. No, I think Nils was there. Anyway, it's this huge event we had at the French Culinary Institute years and years ago. And all the big wigs were coming, like Faran and one Roka and all these guys. This is none of those guys. Another very famous mercurial Spanish chef. And not that Juan Rocke is actually not. He like this totally mellow guy. He didn't yell at anyone the entire time. The man's a complete, he's very, he's a gentleman, Juan Rocca. Someday I will get to go to his restaurant. Anywho? And Geordie too, the brother, pastry chef. Very nice people. Anyway, um, the, so this guy, uh, is well known for kind of like hyper presentation with, you know, like lots of tweezers and whatnot, uh, you know, tiny, like, you know, early on, uh, adopter of the,

[9:07] the, like the micro mini micro, micro, micro green tininess, right? And, um, he literally said during his demonstration. And it stuck in my head forever that it is not only important for the food to look good, it must taste good

[9:24] also. And this stuck in my brain and I've not been able to pride free because it's exactly backwards. It's exactly backwards. It is important. Like, it's not only important that the food tastes good. It's important that it looks good too. That is a true statement. Right? But, um, I kind of, my problem with food that's for presentation only is I think it leads to, especially we're in an era right now where, um, you know, a lot of food work is done on the internet, it's done in

[9:59] books. It's done on television programs and it's done in demonstrations. And so there's a lot of work that's done that, um, where you can tell that it was done for the look and not necessarily for the, for the, for the taste. I call it, you know, cooking for demonstration. It's like you specifically make it so that it looks good in photos or in books or

[10:22] in demos. And, I mean, I'm not saying you should shy away from the press, but that's why, in a demo,

[10:30] I, I think it's important to give taste out so that people actually know that, you know, what you're focused on is cooking and the flavor. Now, I think that, you know, look, if you're cooking at home, it's one thing. It has to look appetizing, I don't really do a lot of plated work at home except for I used to on special occasions, but I don't really do it at home at home. It's more about, you know, something that looks appetizing, but, you know, in a home style. But when you're doing a demo or a dish or a cocktail, I think it's very important to have to have it look enticing and appetizing or in a cocktail scenario that have the presentation of making it be something that whets the person's appetite for what you're

[11:09] making and it looks good or looks compelling. And, um, there are dishes that obviously the, your enjoyment of them is incredibly augmented by how they

[11:19] look. Things can be enchanting, captivating, just in their look. And then, um, that makes it makes an already good tasting thing tastes better. But, you know, nothing is worse than something that they've obviously spent a 1000000000 years making it look great and there's no flavor to

[11:35] it or the flavors clash and they don't work. You've had that happen, Styles, right? Do you enjoy that? No. She's not paying any attention. Okay. Got this guy to move our stuff, I think. Oh, well, okay, so All right. So Nastasia's not paying attention to what I'm saying during the radio show, but did, in fact, find a place a guy's

[11:51] going to move our stuff. So kudos there. Now, there's another side to it, which is also true, and you allude to in your question. And that is that I have things that we have made that are freaking delicious, like delicious,

[12:06] great, and yet I won't ever serve them. Why? Because they're hideously ugly, you know? Like a drink that looks like a murky brown mass and not like brown in a good sort of whiskey way, like just nasty.

[12:18] And so, yes, there are, there are situations where, you know, looks Trump, how good something tastes just because I won't be able to get it past someone's lips. Same way. Like, I can make you a piece of chicken that looks like it's still bloody, cooked through all the way. No one will eat it. Why? Because it's visually repellent to them. And so I think both uh, both are important, but I think, you know, you're going to steer yourself right if you focus on flavor 1st and then uh, after that, like, you know,

[12:46] like how can this presentation be um, best, best achieved, right? I mean, that's my feeling. Now, the 2nd thing we have in from Eddie, is Eddie just has a new book available, I believe, exclusively on the iPad through your iTunes, and it's called

[13:01] Modernist, what's it called? Modernist vegetarian, right? Modernist vegetarian? Let me look at the exact title of the book because I downloaded it. Modernist, vegetarian, right. by Eddie Shepard. And so it's, it's, I read it. I didn't read it fully because I only got it this morning, but I looked through all the

[13:19] recipes and a lot of interesting recipes, some that you can use without a lot of

[13:24] heavy duty equipment, some that require a lot of heavy duty equipment. But, you know, very well, very well, clean photograph, a lot of interesting stuff. And I think, you know, one of the 1st times I've seen someone exclusively try to do a modern, a modern take

[13:36] on, uh, strictly vegetarian. So, good kudos. you know, should go check it out. You can get a free sample on the iTunes. sent to your iPad and then decide whether you want to pay the paltry meager price of, I think it's like

[13:50] 699. So it's not a giant, it's not a giant investment. Um, uh, one thing he uses quite a bit. actually that I haven't used. I'm ashamed to say it. is, uh, the pure coat B790, which is, um, you know, something from National

[14:05] Starch, and uh, can be used to make like films and leathers and glasses and stuff, and we haven't really played with that. I don't think too much styles. Maybe I should, you know, I hate it when someone brings something out like

[14:14] this and then I'm like, man, I haven't, I shouldn't have used that more. Man, there it is. We'll try to get some practicing with the pure code B 790. And we appreciate that you gave me a shout out on a couple of techniques in the

[14:26] book. Uh, one thing is on your methyl cellulose. I like to know, are you using F50? It looks like you're using F 50? Remember to always call out the brands and the metal cell that you are using? All right. This is a shout out to Michael in Oakland. I still have your Lucuma puree problem on my mind, but I'm going to wait to answer until I get back from the Columbia because I'm going to mess with Lucuma

[14:49] variants when I'm down there and figure out really good solutions for you. And with that, let's go to our 1st commercial break. Call your questions two, 718-497-2128. 718-497-2128. So I could love you twice as much as I do. I'd have for 11 arms to embrace you. For us to idolize you each time. You listening to I Wish I Were Twins by Plexophonics. What couldn't fall lips do? When for you, till you say that I'm yours, da da dum. I wish that I were twins, you great big baby kins. I could love you... Why don't pastures is a 146 year old multigenerational family farm that works in cooperation with nature to produce artisan meat,

[15:37] who's safe, healthy, nutritious, and good to eat. Without fail, we ensure that our production practices are economically practical, ecologically sustainable, and that the animals are always humanely treated.

[15:51] We never falter in our determination to conduct our business in an honorable manner. For more information, visit wideoakpastages.com. I wish that I were twins. You bet, big baby, so I could love you twice as much as I do. I'd have for love and arms to embrace you. For us to idolize you each time I face you. And welcome back to cooking issues. Okay, Matt writes in. Hey, Dave and Stas. I recently bought a centrifuge on the eBay. And I was wondering if you guys had any suggestions or resources for cool things I can do with

[16:34] it. There are a few ideas in modernist cuisine, but I want to take it further. Also, do I need to buy special bottles for the rotor, or will a basic mason jar, et cetera. do the trick. I see there are centrifuge bottles for sale around the web, but they're expensive, and I hate to lay down that kind of cash if I can go cheaper. Any thoughts, Matt? Okay, do not put a mason jar in there. Do not put a mason jar into your centrifuge. A couple of things I need to know before I go on. Congratulations, 1st of all, on the centrifuge purchase. Um, yeah, you know, I use a centrifuge every day. And we do mainly juice clarification with it. You're going to need to go out and buy the enzyme, pack the next ultra SPL, which is available at modernestpantry.com. Even though, like, what's the story? No more love for us, huh? Anyways. Anyway, you can buy Pectanex Ultra SPL at modernestpantry.com and you're going to need that with your centrifuge to do a lot of the clarification

[17:31] work assuming that you have a lower speed centrifuge. Remember, the guys at Modernist Cuisine, have a centrifuge that can easily do like 48,000 times the force of gravity. Most likely yours doesn't do that. If it does do that, you definitely shouldn't think about putting a mason jar anywhere near it. Second thing is, is the centerfuge. You need to make sure that the rotor and buckets are in good shape, that they're not dented or messed up. Thirdly, you need to clean the hell out of that centrifuge. You need to bleach the hell out of that centrifuge and you need to take the rotor and pressure cook it to get rid of any sort of biological craziness that might be going

[18:02] on and then bleach the hell out of it again. I think that large amounts of bleach soaking will kill almost everything.

[18:10] I need to, I need better information on how to properly sanitize something against

[18:15] preons, for instance. But you, if you don't know what was in a centrifuge, you have real problems. Second of all, I don't know what kind, like again, what kind of centrifuge you have, but the bottles that go into centrifuge rotors are, they're tough for a reason. They're going to go undergo a lot of stress. I spin directly in my buckets, right? Although I'm the only guy that does it. Everyone else is like, really? You spend directly in the buckets. I'm like, yes, I spin directly in the buckets. Um, never let detergent touch your buckets. You know what I mean? Because the detergent can negatively affect the aluminum buckets. I have purchased the expensive centrifuge bottles and I have found plastic bottles that work in

[18:58] centrifuge rotors, but they tend to fail somewhat. So like back at the FCI. I had a super speed centrifuge that I could do like 22,000 times a force of gravity in

[19:09] safely, and we used to use ketchup squeezies in that thing. And the ketchup squeezies. They worked okay, right, Stas? But every once in a while they would collapse, and then they would collapse. And then guess what? They've collapsed. Um, so, you know, it's a matter of be careful. Go on to cookingissues.com. Look at the centerfuge section specifically related to safety. You need to be safe with a centrifuge. You need to balance a centrifuge before you spin it. And don't put anything in there that can break and fly apart. And because there's a couple of things, right? There's not just like the broken glass in your centrifuge. If you break something in a centrifuge, and then you go unbalanced, then your centrifuge becomes unbalanced, which then becomes a secondary danger.

[19:48] So you have to really make sure that everything is okay and in tip top shape. On the notion of centrifuge, though. So here's the thing. I think I mentioned this on the radio show a couple times, is that whenever I go do demos, they're always like, yo, come

[20:04] to a tech demo. And I'm like, okay, what can you get me? Can you get me a centrifuge? And I was like, no. unless it's Japan. Unless it's Japan. They park high at Tokyo, Baller. Even Nastasia. By the way, Nastasia does not, like, basically thinks that everyone is like a useless moron pretty much. Right? Yes. Yeah. I mean, that's fair to say. Yeah. So for her, especially people that help us out in demos. No offense to those of you that have helped us out in demos. But like, uh, but like the Japanese guys at the Park Hyatt, it was the only time I've ever heard her say, man, these guys

[20:43] are on top of things. They're good people They're good people They're good people. And like for Nastasia, like that means you walk on water. That's like, that's it. You know what I mean? You're like, you know, that's it. Okay. So centrifuge tough to get. Now, here's the reason why centerfuge is tough to get. They big. They're expensive, and they're not yet in a lot of kitchens, so not a lot of kitchen people have access to them. Now, Centrifuge I use at the Booker Index, and at the lab and at the school, they're all basically the same unit.

[21:14] The one that Wiley has same style unit. Um, most people are using, you know, Chad, uh, and uh,

[21:21] Christy, Chad song, Christy Pope, same, same kind. It's 3 liters, benchtop, does 4000 times the force of gravity, right? And that's what I've always called the sweet spot in centrifuges. Now, that is unreasonable for most people at home because it's too large, too

[21:37] expensive, and you're not going to use it that much, right? That's clearly in kind of the divorce slash breakup with your significant other for bringing it into the house kind of range of things to do is to bring a centrifuge like that into the house. Even I do not have one of those suckers in my house. And I have pushed very far with weird crap in my house before. There is a centrifuge. I just purchased to take with me to Colombia that I'm going to run some tests on this week and see whether or not it's okay.

[22:02] It's available Amazon Prime for under 200 bucks. And it only does, I think, 1300 times the force of gravity, but I've done some initial experiments with

[22:11] pectinex ultra SPL and other clarifying aids. And I think I can get it to work at that level. Not as well and not as fast as the one that I have at

[22:20] Booker and Dax, but pretty good. Also, the cool thing, I mean, the centrifuge is very small. So it really does a small amount per spin. It does 120 milliliters per spin, which is a little over 4 ounces. And this is useless for a bar because, please, 4 ounces. Come on. But uh, for testing at home and for making a couple of drinks for, you know, you and your family,

[22:46] uh, this could be a viable thing to at least let you play with centrifugation and what you can do

[22:52] with it. And so I'll be testing this week the $180, um, you know, you know, 120 milliliter centrifuges. Weighs £10 and is less than a foot on each side. So could be good, right? I'll let you guys know next week, whether it works or not. I hope it does because otherwise I'm out 200 bucks. Uh, but wouldn't that be cool? Oh, yeah, see, Nastasia really good with this stuff. This is why I have her around. Be like, just send it back if you don't like it. Yeah. Um, but, uh, but this way we can always have one of those things when we go do demos. Yeah? How much is away? 10 pounds. So it's nothing compared to the crap we carry around. I'll carry the, if you can strap it to my back, I'll carry the world. Okay. Okay. Rob, uh, Treypaz writes in about a couple things. Carpano and Antica Formula Vermouth, which is one of our favorites. Anyway, we use it. We use the hell out of it at the bar, even though it's absurdly expensive. Not absurdly expensive. But it's not cheap, right? Right? Okay. Uh, I recently discovered a Carpano Antiqua Formula Vermouth, and I've been enjoying uh, Manhattan's with it like never before. My problem is that by the ounce. It takes a long time to go through a bottle. You should drink more raw. That's the problem. I'm kidding. I'm not advocating that. Okay. The bottle is kept in my refrigerator with a vacuum van stopper, but it takes on an oxidized flavor towards the end of the bottle and takes up a lot of room.

[24:19] How would you recommend I rebottle it? I have a bottle capper for glass bottles and a CO2 tank available. Should other lowerproof liquors like Lille, Cookie Americano,

[24:29] Dubonay or Aperol be stored in similar quantities or under refrigeration. Uh, and then there's a separate question. Let me deal with this one first. Okay. There's an excellent question. Vermouth definitely does oxidize. And this is a problem we come across in the bar all the time. I wouldn't use, um, Here's the problem with CO2. If you purge out with CO2, you're apt to get like a light tingling in eventually in

[24:55] the bottle, what we use in the bar, we make a bottle of Manhattan. We do a bottle of Manhattan, we dilute the vermouth in the whiskey, and it ends up being a lower proof when we're done than the vermouth was on its own. I think, or it's about the same, but the upshot is that it oxidizes even more in a prediluted Manhattan than it does in its own bottle. And so we have to have a way to keep them from oxidizing. So all of our low proof things like vermouth, um, in the bottle, anything like that. Not only do we store it very cold, actually a little bit below freezing, but not below its own freezing point, is we'll drop a little bit of liquid nitrogen into the bottle open. Uh, the liquid nitrogen. Well, then rest the cap on top, and you'll see a bunch of vapor coming out of the top of the bottle that's purging out the air, and then as soon as it stops actively pushing nitrogen out, we cap

[25:51] it, right? There are other commercial systems based on nitrogen that you can buy that are fairly cheap, like wine

[25:58] saver things, and that you can use to purge out the headspace. If you've purged a headspace out of your drink and cap it, you're good to go. Here's the problem. Nitrogen, I mean, we use it in liquid nitrogen form, so it's sitting on top of the drink and getting all the

[26:14] air out. Nitrogen itself is actually slightly, um, nitrogen is slightly lighter than air. So it's going to float out of the bottle and so you can't actually just dump liquid nitrogen into it and then wait a long time and then cap it. But you can buy on the internet. You can just look it up. Uh, you can uh, buy a Argon-based system. So if you look at roughly the molecular mass, average molecular mass of air. It's about 28.97, right? So oxygen, heavier than air. You need to purge it out, heavier than the average air. nitrogen slightly lighter, carbon dioxide heavier. So you could actually roll carbon dioxide in there slowly and purge out the air, which is how I make

[26:55] carbonated cocktails. But again, and that'll work. I'm just worried that you might have a little residual kind of a pringly thing. although try it. It might work. You know, like just like, like snuff some carbon dioxide in there a couple of times to purge out the headspace and then cap

[27:09] it. I mean, that would technically work. But Argon is a real money maker rocking in at 39,

[27:16] 39.9, um, as a molecular weight. So it's heavier enough, not quite as heavy as carbon dioxide, but much heavier than air. You can buy fairly cheap little argon cartridges and purging units on the

[27:28] internets on the Amazon, and you can use that to purge out all of your bottles. If you want to just do it the way that you said you're doing it. I mean, that you have with carbon dioxide, I don't want to purchase anything extra. I'd be interested to know how that works. But we, I don't do it to Aperol, by the way. is the one thing on that list that I don't really worry about. I also don't worry that much about my dubonet, but maybe I should. We definitely worry about cochie Americano. We definitely worry about our lilay, and we definitely, definitely, definitely worry about our carpano, especially after it's been mixed

[27:58] with, um, with, with the booze and diluted. I'll say this. We have run tests for a couple of weeks with diluted vermouth in bottles that have been LN purged, and I would, like I say, recommend

[28:15] Argon or perhaps the O2, and then capped with no oxygen, and they are dead stable, at least under refrigeration. They're dead stable. So you can handle it and and it's okay. Um, especially you said you had a bottle capper, right? Yeah, you got a bottle capper for glass bottles. Boom, you're done. I'd have to remember in my head whether Carpano will accept a bottle cap, whether the Carpano bottle accepts a bottle cap. Champagne bottles except the bottle cap, but the Carpano bottle might not accept the bottle cap. Okay, listen, I'm going to go to my 2nd commercial break and then come back with Rob's 2nd

[28:47] question. 718-497-2128 cooking issues. Every night, you'll hear crewmen of Russian. Lullaby. Just a plaintiff. Little tune wind, baby, starts to cry. Rock a bye, baby. Somewhere there may be. I land that's free for you and me and a Russian. Lullaby. You're listening to Russian lullaby, by Plexaponic.

[29:50] Every night, You'll hear crewing, I'm a rushing, lullaby. Just a plaintiff, a little tune when baby starts to cry. Rock goodbye, baby. And welcome back to cooking issues. We have a caller, caller, you were on the air. Hi, Dave. This is Marvin Woodhouse calling from Germany. I had a couple of equipment questions, just equipment recommendations I was looking for. So the 1st one was for what we would call in the UK a barbecue, but I think you would call in the US a grill. Correct. Yeah, don't don't tell don't tell a Southern American that a barbecue is a cooking instrument because then you have to like listen to them for half an hour about grilling versus

[30:43] barbecue. You don't want to do it. Yeah, so a charcoal grill, basically. So we, I had a weather before, uh, and and it was, it was okay. I had it a long time, but I'm getting some, I need to get a new one basically, because I moved countries and left the old one behind. So, uh, have you, is there anything particularly that's any good or are they all much of a much enough?

[31:07] That's a good question. You know, on grills, Jeffrey Steingarden hates Weber's. Hates them, because you can't adjust the coal height effectively in

[31:19] them. You know what I mean? I mean, what Webers are good at with that kettle shape is kind of allowing a pile of coals to radiate out

[31:25] kind of either side. They're also relatively inexpensive, which is I think why a lot of people use them. And, you know, for me, like, the problems with grills,

[31:36] uh, you know, I prefer like a nice heavy grate that can that can really, like, absorb a lot of energy and then and then give it back. But a lot of it's about versatility. I always want the biggest grill I can possibly get, but the flip side of having a giant grill is that, you know, you basically need to fire the whole thing

[31:54] or or you lose a lot of heat. A lot of the grilling, I tend to do a lot of super high heat grilling, like very fast, especially like finishing off sous vide and stuff like that. Uh, you know. So at any rate, like larger grills give you more versatility because if you're going to do a high low situation or have the coals on one side and cook

[32:14] in the other, you have more space to do it with, but the problem is, is they tend to consume a lot of charcoal. So if you're only going to be, like how many people are you cooking for? Uh, no more than sort of, I mean, aid at the absolute max, but usually more like, but sometimes down

[32:32] to two. Right. Yeah. I mean, too, I mean, like, that's a huge difference, right? Like cooking, grilling for 8 and grilling for 2 is a giant, giant difference. You know, I've never used any of the smaller, like theoretically more fuel conserving grills,

[32:49] like, for instance, the egg that a lot of people seem to like. Yeah, I saw those on Ake and Alex's blog. Right. Do they like them? Yeah, but they're really expensive. I mean, how's a coal cost in like hardwood charcoal? Is that expensive in Germany or no? No, not really, but like, I think the, the, the eggs can be up to like five,

[33:12] €600 for that, that's quite expensive for a grill. Yeah. I mean, I in- like, you know, I've grilled on grill is really a lot about how you handle it. I would go for one with a big, with a nice, like, I like cast. I like the cast iron grates. They're not necessary, but I liked them a lot better than those thin wire craps. And I usually go for a larger size, just because it gives me more flexibility, just be willing to suck up a lot of extra charcoal because you're going to go through a lot more charcoal than you

[33:41] ordinarily would. I have never used a grate that has like, I mean, a grill that has a really nice system for adjusting the height of the grill surface, but Bobby Flay told me once that he had one that did

[33:52] that, and Steingarten once told me that he had one that did that, which would obviously be useful because it would allow you to get different heats without having to lift the thing and shuffle the coals around, which is everyone knows is a messy pain in the butt. And I know it's sort of a dirty concept for food snobs, but like

[34:09] gas. is. Yeah, you know what? Like, I, like, so I've used gas assists in, uh, look, here's the other thing, right? I mean, like everybody knows that coal is great, but sometimes you just want to fire the sucker up and run, right? Yeah, because it's dirty and it takes time to heat up and stuff. I mean, you've used chimney starters before, though, right? Pardon? You've used a chimney starter before, right? for coal? Yeah. Yeah. But it's just if it was gas, I'd use it more often, I think. Right. Right. I mean, I used to have a unit a long time ago that I could go either way with, and I don't know whether I was legally allowed to go either way or whether I literally just threw an extra grate over top of the burners and went

[34:51] crazy. I think it might be the latter. So that I could do. I'm a big fan of flexibility. And so, you know, if you're going to use the grill more often, especially in the summertime. If you have a gas thing on it, you fire it up. I mean, the one issue with most gas burners is that they just don't have

[35:08] the oomph that you need, right? And so, you know, and if you, you know, as I, as I do, believe kind of the modernist cuisine mantra on, uh, what's going on, which is that the flavor of grilling isn't really from the coal itself, but from fat dripping on said coal, uh, vaporizing and coming up, then if you have enough power in your burners, then you can do something like chuck lava rocks onto it, and then use those lava rocks to get that kind of, uh, feeling of

[35:39] the, of the stuff hitting it and going down. I think that most people's gripe with the gas grills is that just that you're not hot enough to get that kind of a thing to happen.

[35:49] You know what I mean? But no, I don't I don't think you're a bad person for wanting a gas grill. You know what I mean? I prefer charcoal, but gas is just, you know, it just it's just more convenient. And then the 2nd equipment recommendation is my wife broke my immersion blender, which isn't too bad because it was

[36:08] crappy. But she's, she's, she said she'd buy me as kind of a combo compensation and birthday

[36:16] present, uh, uh, pretty much whichever one I want. What would you go for? Seeing as I don't think you've, you and Dave Chank have built your new one yet? No, I haven't. I only have, I mean, not crappy ones, but I don't have really the good ones.

[36:34] I don't have a good one either. Have you tried a Bamx? I was about to say the Bamx seems to be the one that it's the only one I've heard people say that they, everyone loves having an immersion blender, but I've never had anyone say that they actually liked the one that they have.

[36:49] The exception is the Bamx. Um, The downside of the Bamx is that it, um, it obviously the, the, the,

[36:59] the shaft doesn't pop off of the Bamx to clean is kind of the one, the one downside it has. The upside, uh, for my, just, never having used it is that it's got a lot more clearance around the bell for, um, for

[37:14] fluids to go in and out. And one of the main problems. So the 1st main problem with immersion blenders is splashing in improperly sized cups with not enough liquid.

[37:23] The 2nd main problem with them is cavitation around the bell

[37:27] in thicker products. For instance, you know, I use immersion blenders to do pancake batter, you know,

[37:32] stab you, but I do. You know what I mean? Uh, and, um, uh, and you get a lot of cavitation issues with the standard stamped steel bells that are on most, um, kind of consumer grade immersion blenders, and the, and the Bamx 4

[37:46] prong open kind of blade guard, I think, is not going to have as much cavitation problem as those. And so if I had to go out and spend my 99 bucks on one, I'd probably get that. Not having not having tested it, I might take the jump and get it. Is that, I mean, also, like, you know, like some of the other ones, like I happen to have a KitchenAid now, and I don't hate it, but I don't love it. It came with a bunch of other attachments, which I don't even know where they are. I've never used them. Yeah. They're more expensive over here. So like the, the, the price difference between a Bamix and the KitchenAid, there really isn't going to be one when you buy it here. Really? Yeah. And that little chopper that they sell, to me, is fundamentally useless. The whisk is fundamentally useless. Have you ever seen someone use one of those? Nothing looks more ridiculous than using that whisk on the end of an immersion blender. It's crazy. Yeah, it's you know, whatever. It makes no sense. And eventually, the, the, um, eventually

[38:41] that the connection starts going wonky where it clicks in, and so now mine makes awful grinding noises when I, when I, when I'm using it. So all set. I do like being able, it makes, makes me allow, allow me to be a lot lazier to just pop off the end of the stick and put it into

[38:56] water. So I'm not going to lie to you and say that that is not a benefit, but I might go with the Mamex

[39:03] the next time around. Robocoup makes an incredibly expensive commercial one where the actual bell pops off to

[39:09] clean, which seems like it would be nice. But I believe Bamex also has the feature that you can remove the blade. Is that true? I think so yeah. Yeah, that seems like it's going to be a bad idea because it seems like something's going to break there, but the biggest downfall, even with the removable stem immersion

[39:25] blenders, is trying to clean underneath that blade, which is a huge hassle. And so the ability to remove that blade, assuming that it's not a failure point for the mechanism,

[39:35] which obviously it has a possibility of being. It would be a huge boon to cleaning. I detest cleaning out the bottom of the blades of

[39:43] immersion blenders. And I had one equipment recommendation for you. You've mentioned tablets and that's what I do for a living. So if you're looking for a small scale tablet press. The, the thing you want is called Arriva, R-I-V-A, mini press. Write that downstairs. You got that? R-I-V-A mini press? Uh, you, uh, they're probably, they're quite expensive. They're about 10 grand, 20 grand new, but if you can pick one up from a pharmaceutical company,

[40:15] sort of from an auction. Right. Uh, you probably get one for way less than that because there's pharmaceutical companies going out of business, left, right, and

[40:23] centre. So, uh and if you get one, it will probably be pretty clean. because they have to have logbooks and stuff for when you're using them to produce products. So I wouldn't worry too much in terms of uh too much in terms of contamination as long as you can kind of get it all visibly clean. uh and then and then wipe, you know, clean it with uh uh some, some solvent, uh, something

[40:48] like uh, isopropyl alcohol or, or something like that, uh, you'll probably not be too bad to go. And how big is a dishwasher size, smaller? Uh, it's probably about the size of uh, uh,

[41:05] Oh, I'm trying to think of something about the right size, uh, uh,

[41:10] Probably the size of uh, floor standing Apple Mac. Ah, nice. That sounds totally doable. So it's a benchtop unit. It's a single station press, but it's, it's a really, really nice piece of kit there, but

[41:25] Reva is an Argentinian company, but they're, they're one of the standard sort of research and development tablet presses.

[41:32] So, like, it's not really, really fast or anything, but you, it's, it's, because you only need the one punch. It's pretty versatile in terms of you don't have to buy stacks and stacks of the tooling for

[41:46] it. You only need one set. Nice. I appreciate that. Hey, you want the, you, you didn't call in with the question about trying to get your kids to eat things, did you? Yeah, I did. Okay, listen. lucky day that you called in. We have someone who has responded a very long email. I think we're going to get Jack to read the response, correct? Well, I might have to substitute. I mean, I can't really fill Jack's shoes, but I have I have the email here. All right, so Joe, the front, what's the name of your band, Joe? Oh, it's called Big Ups. All right, so he's a front man. I'm sure you can do a good read job. Joe's going to read the response to your question on how to get your kids to eat stuff from Geek

[42:23] Goddess. Go, Joe. Dear Dave and Nastasia, the Hammer. I have all kinds of food issues myself, and I was thinking of that family in Germany whose kids have lost their minds and will only eat

[42:35] pasta, has said father tried Sharimi? You know that delightful crab, like seafood product that serious chefs loves to hate? Well, my brother, master of picky eaters, I, of course, would eat anything anyway. My mother or my brother was getting desperate and found the stuff and brought it home. He got to it before she even had a chance to feed it to him. And because and became the default option

[43:02] for, and I won't eat anything day. So have you tried the Seremi? Will your kids eat the serimi? What's the rimi? It's that crab, yeah. It's what? Imitation crab product? Okay, how do you spell it? S-U-R-I-M-I? And it really, it's the stuff that they put in fake California rolls and whatnot. I mean it is. Oh, like crabstick type shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, sorry. That's all right. That's all right. I agree. Look, it is, it is like a crazy, like, processed food stuff, and then, and it's like, you know, uh, they evaluate various fish products for their ability to be pressed into

[43:39] serebi because it's all about you bleach out any sort of natural flavor. It has, and then you turn them into kind of uniform sticklets. Uh, but uh, would your kids, uh, would your kids like that maybe? That was that was her 1st name. They might not dig the texture. But we can we can try it. we can try it. She also she also suggested string cheese. String cheese. String cheese with string cheese we already do. Yeah, but and then insulted the quality of pizza that you're able to obtain in Germany. I believe she insulted the quality of pizza. Is that true, Joe? Yes, she definitely did. Yeah, in fact, condolences. Yes, condolences to you for your like, what was the next one? Then there's a quinoa pasta? Oh, yeah, she said that your kids might not like the quinoa because of the taste of the quinoa. That's kind of a bit worthy for our family. Yeah. She also recommends corn-based pasta, right? Um, I'm just kind of scanning through here. Well, she says that there's, uh, that it does contain corn, yeah, or

[44:34] something I would try. Yeah, contains corn. I had corn-based pasta. It is not pasta, but it tastes okay, actually. It's like rice pasta is horrible. Corn pasta is, like I say, it's not pasta, but it's it's okay. But yeah, you're trying to get away from the kind of boiled starch in general, right? Like not just, you don't want to just switch the boiled starch, right? In which case, I could just, you know, make you make soba or something like that, which I've been working. working on the soap. I dont know if I mentioned that on the air, but I've been working on a soba problem. But yeah, hopefully you're trying to switch to it. She had another kind of a loonier thing towards the end, didn't she? Uh, yes. Um, well, there's something about kangaroo on here. Oh, yeah, she's been cooking kangaroo meat. Maybe maybe your kids can eat some joey. She's like, I don't know, this is an incredible email, by the way. It is several pages. I think we should just put that email. We're going to put that. Can we put that email, Joe, up just as a response on the heritage radio site as a response? Yeah, I have to check what the higher ups, but I don't see why not. It's long, and anyway, you can read her entire response. You can read her entire response there. I'm not sure if your kids are having trouble eating other things. I'm not sure kangaroo is going to be the... Hey, kids. Remember that cute animal that you like? Here it is. Eat it. You know what I mean? I don't know. Even my kids, who will eat almost nothing but will try weird stuff and don't mind like dead animals. I think they might pause with a kangaroo. Yeah, I think we haven't really got to the link between furry things and what's on the plate yet. Yeah, that's a tough one. That's a tough one. Well, I tend to reinforce it. I tend to reinforce it with my kids. I'm like, hey, eat your hamburger. cow died for that. And they're like, and then it comes and bites me on the butt because they're like, daddy, did a cow die for my hamburger? Yes, a cow dive for hammer. Like, does a cat, does any animal have to die for the pasta? No, no animal has to die for the pasta? So yeah, yeah, you have to keep on going on. It's like once you make a statement like that, you have to live with it for the rest of your life. know what I mean? Or at least for the first, you know, 5 years, whatever. anyway. So we're going to try and post this on the web. And we hope that helps. And thanks for the tablet press info. All right. I got one more that I'm gonna handle. Rob's 2nd question on my way out. He says, also, how do you make shelf stable, maraschino style, or bourbon cherries? All the recipes I call for refrigerator storage for a period of weeks, and I want to keep them in at cellar temperatures for up to a year. Rob Trey Pass. Okay. First of all, Toby Cicchini, the bartender, like better known as the bartender who kind of, you know, made the

[47:14] Cosmo the drink. Um, also writes for the New York Times. Nice gent. He has been making cherries for many, many a

[47:23] year. And his recommendations are that you, 1st of all, you need a high proof liquor. If you wanted to last a long time, you got to use a high-proof liquor. But 2nd of all, it's the type of cherry you use. He tried various different types of cherry. He happens to have, I think Morello's, I'm not sure, some type of sour cherry in his, in his garden, and those are the ones that he uses or he sources. He says he's tried to do his cherries with sweet cherries and that they're

[47:49] insipid, useless things. I will tell you this. Back before I was allergic to cherries when I could test these things. I had a cherry once that was 50 or 60 years old that had been stored

[48:01] in, like almost straight, like super high proof alcohol that my stepfather's grandfather kept in the basement in Connecticut and they were put up in the in the 20s and I was eating them in the in the

[48:17] 90s, 80s or 90s. And they were still good that number of years later, and the secret, I think, is the high proof ethanol. Now, if you want to use a little bit of technology to make sure that you're going to be okay, his secret was

[48:31] not don't remove the, I mean, whatever. old Italian wives tale, but don't remove the stem. If you move the stem, it goes mushy, it turns to crap. You got to leave the stemming. That the secret. That's what they used to say. Now with that accent though, because they're from Boston, but I can't do a Boston accent. Anyways, but you might want to try, if you do want to remove this stem or whatever, you might, and the issue with it is, I don't know how long you need to soak it

[48:53] because it's very hard to get things to permeate the cell walls. I mean, the skin of things like cherries, but you might try a soak in

[49:04] novo shape, pectin methylesterase, and a little bit of calcium. Um, That enzyme along with calcium will firm up the fruit immensely. And I've used that enzyme to make, for instance, raspberries that you could boil without them breaking. So it really does firm up cell walls quite a bit. And it's not readily available, but, you know, it is available. It's called Novo Shape is the brand name from Novozymes, and it's a pectin methyl esterase. Now, so I don't know how long it would take to soak through a cherry. We're going to run some tests ourselves at the bar. Hopefully if we can get around to it. But it definitely works on other things. Then high proof ethanol, and you might want to dope a tiny bit of calcium into that high proof ethanol if you can. It's not going to be very soluble because calcium will help also cross-length the pectin and keep those suckers nice

[49:57] and, you know, not have them break down and turn to mush. Good luck with it. Cooking issues.

[50:09] Vicious, fish. Thanks for listening to this program on HeritageRadioNetwork.org. You can find all of our archived programs on our website or as podcasts in the iTunes

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