[0:00] Today's program was brought to you by the Brooklyn Kitchen, a mom and pop operation since 2006. They provide the tools that shape our food culture. Visit them at 100 Frost Street in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, or visit the Brooklynkitchen.com. You are listening to Heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from

[0:17] Bushwick, Brooklyn. If you like this program, visit heritageradionetwork.org for 1000s more.

[0:29] Cooking issues.

[0:51] Showing your questions, too. Cooking issues. Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming up to you live on the Heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from 12 to roughly one in the back of Roberta's

[1:11] Pisoia in Bushwick, Brooklyn. Here again today with Nastasia, Hammer Lopez, welcome back. Thank you. And as usual, Jack and Joe over in the engineering room. Howdy. By the way, Nastasia, someone, I said on the tweet out for today's program that you were going to be back.

[1:30] And I said, you know, the hammer's going to be back and someone's like, is that your nickname? I'm like, no, that's Nastasia's nickname. And he's like, well, what's her Twitter handle? And I was like, oh, oh. Ew, no, no, no, no, no Twitter handle. I like, uh, you know, well, Nastasia only believes in antisocial media. So I told him that Nastasia refuses to have a Twitter handle until they invent

[1:56] antisocial media and then someone else chimed in. it already is freaking antisocial media. I was like, hey, hey, point taken. Point taken. So yeah, so apparently like people are so mean and rough on Twitter, you might actually enjoy it. Like if you had a Twitter handle that had nothing to do with work, so you didn't have to be nice if you could just sit there and be incredibly vicious to people, but people didn't

[2:14] know maybe who you were. You would love that. You can do that. time investment for Nastasia, right? Look, it doesn't the nostalgia will invest any amount of time to be vicious that is needed to

[2:25] be invested. She's always typing on the computer anyway. Why not have it be like when I have it be towards Twitter? Oh, Nastasia, you know what Joe did last week while you're gone? He shopped for shoes during the show. Thanks for holding the torch, too. Yeah, no one actually knows what nostasia is doing on that computer. It's vicious. It's crazy. She's nuts. Anyway, welcome back. Yeah, how you doing? What would your, like, I'm sure the hammer's already taken, so you couldn't even have that Twitter handle if you wanted. I don't think it'd have to be like a secret name, so I can call out people. Like me. Like, you wouldn't tell me. You would write in and be like, this guy doesn't know anything. He's an idiot. He's a moron. Right? Yeah pretty much. Okay, uh, call it questions two. 718-497-2128. 718-497-2128. We have one more show before the Valentine's Day, correct? don't know. Uh, yeah. Are you big on Valentine's Day? You know I am. You know I love the. I mean, I don't really look, and now, look, I have 2 kids, an 11 year old, and an 8 year old. So I'm more worried about their Valentine's Day at this point, which, you know,

[3:28] at that age for me. Val, growing up, Valentine's Day. Get the all ready, Jack. I don't know, I won. Like, all of, like, get ready to play DJ Khaled. All I do is win because I freaking won. But the point of the matter is, like, in order to become, like, the all time champion, like, my wife is awesome. Super psyched. You know what I mean? And we started going out on Valentine's Day. So Valentine's Day, almost 21 years ago, this Valentine's Day,

[3:54] my wife and I, our relationship can go to the bar and have a drink because we've been going out. We will have been together 21 years at that point. But, um, but yeah, I mean, Valentine's Day always sucked for me. I always hated it growing up. I'm sure my kids will be the same way. Actually, Dax. I bet Dax will have good Valentine's Day. It doesn't really matter until like, what? I don't know, 14, 13? No, you know what, dude? You're in the thing. I mean, even before then, even like 11, you know, 11, 12. You have to buy the carnations. Is this just in the east coast, or do we all, is everyone in the world have this? Where, like, you buy carnations and you write stuff on it and the money goes to the school, like, to the school body, and they go around on Valentine's Day and they hand out the carnations? Might just be. It's just East Coast? Jack, you did that stuff? I never did that. Joe? No, none? Anyway. horrible. horrible. And I always, they always, if you'd never, if no one bought you one. If your friends didn't buy you one, and you would buy different colors, like, red was, I love you. And green was, I don't know. I don't know what the hell green was. Anyway, it's like, because who the hell, they're fake, these carnations. They just dipped the, they dipped the stems in coloring and it colors up the carnation. ridiculous And you know, it's these crappy carnations that give carnations, which, by the way, are a fine flower. It took, it took me about 12 years or 13 years to convince my wife that the carnation was a legitimately good flower because she's like, they suck because she's only used to

[5:16] shitty cars. ooh, crappy carnations. crappy carnations. Sorry, folks. Anyway, we've got a call. Wow. All right, anyway, I got the secret admirer one, which means no one bought me one. Now you can play the off. Okay, caller, you're on the air. Hi, Johnny Cart from Memphis. Hey, how you doing? Doing all right. I'm doing good. I got picked up some stainless steel tubing yesterday. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, about 4.5 feet of it and had it cut into one inch sections and um, leveled it off and

[5:50] everything, and I was trying to figure out the best way to keep the, I was making like a savory

[5:56] cheesecake, and I wanted to cook it in the circulator. Right. And I was trying to figure out the best way to keep it in there because it started pouring

[6:04] out. And you know, when the vacuum was pulling, it's pouring out. Yeah, it'll pour out. So you're bagging how many tubes per? Uh, one, two, per, uh, large bug. All right, here's here's the awesome thing. Did you let the vacuum cycle complete? Uh, no, I didn't. It seemed like it was going to come up on the bag. Yeah, yeah, here's here's no. Yeah, here's this is awesome. Now, there, I mean, oh, the one problem, of course, is that cheesecake has some air in it, but assuming you have a fully dense product, let the vacuum cycle complete.

[6:40] Here's what happens. When you vacuum something, uh, with a tube like that. First of all, you got to make sure that you have enough liquid to fully fill the tube. Because if you don't, the bag will go in and puncture itself on the tube.

[6:52] But if you have enough liquid to fill the tube. All of the liquid will be smashed back into, it's a miracle. Well, how liquidy is the, is it semi-solid or what? Well, it it's cheesecake, but it's uh, made with uh, like 80, 75% mascarpone. Uh, and it's pretty much like a mascarpone consistency. Right. Right. So here's what's awesome. Like, uh, like when you suck a vacuum on a straight liquid. I've never tried it with something that's a paste consistency. Everything's going to boil out of your container. And then as soon as the vacuum comes back in, the force of the vacuum will smash it back into the

[7:32] tube. Okay. So it'll, it'll do that with a dense, uh, liquid as well, like, uh, the cheesecake you paint? As long as it can move. I mean, you might not get 100% back, but you'll definitely get like 95. I mean, I used to, that used to be one of my favorite things to do, uh, because we would vacuum. I would vacuum pack, um, liquids in, in, in, bottles, you know, like doing that. I would like, I would pour all the liquid into the bag and then like have the cap on very loose and then put it all in a bag and then suck a vacuum and then the vacuum would shoot all of the liquid inside the bottle.

[8:06] Uh, you know, that's my, I used to do that. That's fun. I mean, your point is well taken on something that's thick. I mean, it eventually will work the way back in there because otherwise there's going to be a lot of excess force on it because there's going to be, now the question is, is, will the product get forced back into the tube prior to the bag feeling enough force on

[8:26] the in the in the cavity on the inside of the tube prior to that shattering, right? I mean, that's the real question. But another thing you could do is, I mean, do you need the vacuum to get the air out? Were you having problems with air in it without the vacuum? I was trying, no, I, I, it does find in a conventional oven, but I was trying to, uh, I wanted to try the sous

[8:49] vide cheesecake because I wanted, I wanted, uh, the consistency to be like, you know, uh, no air whatsoever, no pocket, no nothing like that. Sure. Well, then, yeah, okay. So if you're looking to make it much denser, then definitely vacuums the way to

[9:08] go and just do it and see whether or not it all gets forced back into the tube. I think you have a very good shot of it all being forced back into the tube. You might have to clip the 2 ends because they're going to be a little concave or

[9:20] convex depending on whether you're slightly overstuffed or slightly understuffed tube. But I would definitely go that way. If you're not worried about the density issue, if you're just using it as a temperature control issue, then I would, you know, if you had access to a CVAP, obviously I would just cook it in a CVAP or a combi

[9:35] oven, but if not, I would try wrapping the tube after it's stuffed with saran, with plastic wrap,

[9:41] doing a, you know, a couple of layers of it. And that should be watertight enough for you to poach in it that way. But if you're looking to actually remove all the air and densify it, I would say that vacuum is the way to go. And it'll all get shoved back in. In fact, Excuse me. In fact, the reason that it's puffing out is not just because the

[9:59] water the water and liquids inside are turning into a vapor, although that's causing it. But any air pockets that you're having in there need to push open and push the product out of the way to get out of the tube.

[10:09] You know what I'm saying? Yeah, so you think I should put in like a Florence hotel pan and

[10:15] and run it through a couple of cycles? Oh, you can do that. And that'll get rid of a lot of the air too, but I have a strong feeling. I would say I'm more than 50% positive that if you just stick the tubes with the mixture in the

[10:28] back bag and and make sure it's packed in good and you suck a full vacuum on

[10:32] it, that it will all boil out, but it'll go back into the tube. I give you, man, maybe I'll give you 50% odds on that working for you. And if not, I would just put the mixture in the hotel pan, like you say, blast it a couple times in the vacuum to get the air out, then do a dense pack into the tube, and then wrap her in plastic and do it in

[10:49] the either low temper, do it in the, um, uh, you could do it in an oven if you're having good luck in an oven. So even though it's open at both ends. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. As long as there's as long as there's enough, I mean, try. I mean, like the issue is, is, is it, is it going to move fast enough to get back into the tube? That's the real, real question. But I mean, you can try it with water. You'll see. If you if you put just enough water to exactly fill that tube and just throw it into the bag with the tube and vacuum it, all of the water will end up in the tube, all of

[11:22] it. But it's, you know, but it's a question when it's so thick, whether or not it's going to move well enough, but I, like I say, that's why I'm giving you like 50, not giving you 100% odds. I giving you like 50. All right, understand. And what do you suggest, uh, but the ones 79 on Fahrenheit like that? Oh, Cheesecakes? I don't know. I usually do things like that. I can't do the Fahrenheit conversions. I usually do them up in like the, I usually do them in like the low 80s somewhere in there, like the low 80s in Celsius, probably. Okay. somewhere around. I can work with that. Yeah. I mean, usually, I think. I have to go back and look at my numbers. been a long time. But anyway, tell us how it works. Sure to say a Twitter or whatnot and tell me how it works. All right, thanks, Dave. Have a good day. You too. By the way, on Twitter, you know what? If you ever want to insult Nastasia, she sees all of my emails, but not my Twitter. Just saying. That's true. Just kidding. Patrick Martin's also not on Twitter. I think you guys are the only two. He's not on Twitter? No. or Facebook or anything. Wow. He's, you know, I don't know. too exclusive. Wow, wow, all righty. Okay, Will Freeman writes in at Rebel Cat. At Heritage Radio and Dave Arnold, could you please discuss sparkling water served with espresso, theory and

[12:40] practice? Word to Nastasia, Jack, and the crew. Again, that's a, and the rest reference from the 1st Gilligan's Island. Remember that? anyway, I won't go into it again. So, uh, carbonated water with cell serve. I enjoy it. You don't, I mean, sorry, carbonator water with espresso. I enjoy it. don't drink espresso, right, sis? Any of you guys over there, espresso? I'm into it. Yeah, you like the carbonated? I actually have never had the carbonated, but I like espresso. Okay, so when you get when you order an espresso in a lot of nicer joints, they will give you a water back, right? A glass of water with it. And then a lot of the places that I like, like in San Francisco, for instance, like

[13:16] blue bottle and other places, they'll give you a carbonated water back. And it seems kind of strange. At 1st you wouldn't think that carbonated water would necessarily go well with coffee. I mean, there's very few carbonated coffee drinks. Manhattan, special soda being the one obvious, you know, that's the only really carbonated coffee thing I can think of. So it's not necessarily, and by the way, Manhattan doesn't refer to our Manhattan nostalgia or 1st Manhattan Avenue here in Brooklyn. So it's like, you know, it's actually a Brooklyn product, so you can't drink it. Yeah, I mean, we saw the factory. Yeah, yeah. Anyway. So, I don't know. I mean, like, I, I, I like it, and I, put it this way, what is it there for? Espresso is gone in like 13 seconds, especially like a modern American espresso. You're drinking it in like 13 seconds because of the incredibly short shots that they're pulling these

[14:03] days. It used to be that a double was, you know, like an ounce

[14:07] and 3 quarters or so or an ounce and a half . Now like a double is, you know, almost not even coding the bottom of your cup at

[14:14] somebody's places. I think it's gone a little far in that respect in some ways, but you have a strong tasting thing and you need something to clear your mouth out at the end. So in general, what I do is I drink the espresso,

[14:28] and then I pound the water and regular water doesn't clean your mouth out or make you feel refreshed the way sparkling water

[14:36] does. I mean, straight up, right? So I don't think, I don't know if there's any theory other than, I'm sure the people who started doing it, we're offering a sparkling mineral water as a thing, and that just happened to be the water of

[14:47] their, of their, of their preference. But I didn't find anything on the kind of history of it. All I'm saying is I enjoy it. I'm assuming that you enjoy it as well at Rebel Cat. Anyway, Ben writes it. Oh, caller, you're on the air. Hello. Hi, hi, I'm Stephen Benson. I a big fan of your show. Thank you. I had a quick question about juicers. Okay, good. What question? I need a juicer that can also juice greens effectively and extract as much

[15:18] possible out of the Greek. And I was looking for one in a reasonable price range. Uh, and if, if that's, if that's not possible, then uh, is there any way to modify a cheaper juicer to be able to do that? When you say greens, you mean like kale? Yes. Okay. Uh, all right. Okay, good. So what do you have now? Oh, I don't have one yet. I'm in the market. Okay. So the, now there's all sorts of juicers that I myself don't, uh, don't own and haven't even, uh, test it. My main experience with juice style juicers are with the smaller, the smaller,

[15:57] like weird baskets, centrifugal guys, and I've never had much luck with them. I don't really, never been so happy with them. The majority of my experience is with a champion juicer. Champion juicer is a masticating juicer. And so, you know, it's what it does is it's got a long nose, and it's got little teeth on that long nose, and you shove stuff down and it just grinds it up with the, and then the

[16:20] juice uh, spits out of the bottom through a mesh screen, and then the chaff comes out the front, right? And the champion can juice just about anything. With the exception, it can't do sugar cane. I don't think it's very good at wheat grass, right? But it does apples. it'll do kale. do all those things, ginger, anything. Carrots, loves carrots. loves to do carrots. Now, the one gripe people have with the champ, and the champion is relatively reasonably priced, right? It's like, I think we pay, what, like 204 or something like that. And it's uh, and it's a monster workhorse, right? You can beat that heck out of it all day long and nothing, it's not going to die. I have, I think I said on this show, if not, I've said elsewhere that I had, I had one once that I ran so long and so hard juicing apples that the surface of the case was boiling water and the, uh, and I actually,

[17:18] I actually melted the electronics on the inside of it, the safety circuit, but it's still juiced. I mean, that's kind of how sturdy these suckers are. But the one gripe that people have about the champion is that it can heat up your products,

[17:32] okay? And so with greens and certain other things, that can be a problem. By the way, when you're juicing something, if you juice something that has a tendency to turn brown after it's been cut up, what you want to do is put ascorbic acid, vitamin C, actually into the pan that you're juicing into, and that's

[17:49] gonna, uh, that's gonna really, um, retard the browning that happens, for instance, apples or anything else. But ko stuff is no problem. But if you need something that's more gentle, right, and for things like greens, you can get, there's a juicer called the green star juicer that's, it runs with 2

[18:07] gears, and the 2 gears crush the product that it's going through, and that produces the juice, and that juice is at a much lower temperature. And so people like it. It's a little more expensive than a champion. I don't have any personal experience with it, but Sam Mason, you know, when he was opening Taylor, had a champion and a

[18:23] juice green star, and he said he really liked the green star, but he said the yield was a lot lower. So I don't know how important the yield is, because that's another thing to look at whenever you're looking at a juicer, how much you're leaving behind. Okay, I'm a chemist. The yield is actually pretty important to me. Right, okay. Um, and I was also, I was also curious, since I'm going to be making savory juices sometimes as

[18:43] well. Instead of using a score, but can I use some type of vinegar or citric acid or something like that instead to make sure

[18:47] the running doesn't occur? Okay, well, it depends. So, if you're, like, there's 2 ways to retard browning, right? So you're a chemist, so like, but we'll, for everyone, we'll, one, you lower, the browning is caused

[19:01] by an enzymes that are present in the juice, right? I believe they're polyphenol oxidases that are agglomerating things together into things that turn brown, that look brown, and that anyway, that make things take oxidized. So and other oxidation reactions are happening. In fact, I think the browning is only the only one of the things that's going on for the oxidation reaction. So, but they're mainly enzymatically caused, which means you can retard a lot of that

[19:26] browning by simply lowering the pH to the point where those enzymes are no longer active, right? That's one mode, or two, add something that is actively an

[19:36] antioxidant, like a scorbic acid. Right? So the other acids are only going to act insofar as they're going to lower the

[19:43] pH, whereas they're not as effective as actual antioxidants as you would have in something like ascorbic acid. Now if you didn't want the ascorbic acid taste, right? Although scorbic acid is very light on taste, you could move to something like sodium

[19:57] metabisulfite, or something like that is an antioxidant, and a lot of people use that, but the problem is, is that if you overdose on one of the sulfite things, you start to taste that vaguely sulfurous

[20:10] note, but you won't taste it in smaller quantities. Okay. All right, thank you very much. I really appreciate it. Man, thank you. Let us know how goes. All right, I will. All right. Wait, stop, should we go to our 1st commercial break? We're going to our 1st commercial break. Cooking issues. We'll be right back.

[21:52] A true mom and pop operation since 2006, the Brooklyn kitchen provides the tools that shape our food culture. They stock a curated variety of pots, pans, knives, small appliances, and other kitchen essentials. Their grocery department works closely with local farms and food artisans to bring you the tastiest fresh produce, dairy, and pantry items. Their teaching kitchens allowed them to offer a wide breath of cooking classes, from knife skills to pick butchering, from cooking for couples to pickling and

[22:23] canning, from home brewing to pie making. Something new is always happening at the Brooklyn Kitchen. Visit them at 100 Frost Street in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, or visit the Brooklyn kitchen.com. You guys put some scary music to that. Yeah, right? I feel like I'm going to get butchered. That's the point It's not a scary place. Yeah, I was asking Nastasia before the show if she ever been in Brooklyn Kitchen, but then I forgot she's never really been to Brooklyn outside of Roberta, so... Oh, yeah, no, she makes a beeline directly for the subway when she gets out of here, like slapping the hipsters off her like mosquitoes that she's running. Tell the joke. Which one? Your joke. It's your joke. You tell it. You'll save better. No, it's nostalgia. How much does a hipster weigh? How much? An Instagram. Wow. Yeah, thank goodness she's measuring ingredients. There we go. All right. At Class writes in, at cooking issues, what starch have you found to be the least cloudy when using as a thickener for hot

[23:26] sauces? Or do you have any nonstarch ideas? Okay, well, that's an interesting question. And you want something that's hot soluble? So, you know, heat it up and to coat the back of a spoon with thick coat the back of the spoon, as they say, a

[23:39] nepel, as they say, in the trade, or maybe a little bit thicker. So, if you're interested in starch clarity in the theory behind starch clarity, you can look up a 1989 article called

[23:47] Starch Paste Clarity by SAS Craig. It's available on the internet, and you can look it up. But in general, if you're looking for a regular starch, you know, not a modified, if you want a modified,

[24:00] not even a modified, but a very highly tuned starch, you can go to National Starch

[24:04] Corporation, and they have any number of starches that are already that are made specifically for things like

[24:10] clarity. In fact, they have gel, they have starches. They have the word clarity and purity in their name that are intended to be very highly clear. But if you're looking to get kind of a more normal, just like a grocery store situation with starch, uh, the

[24:24] way the reason starch is, um, our, when starch becomes clear, typically means that the starch is swelling

[24:30] rapidly, and the starch granules break rapidly, and the starch goes completely into solution rapidly, and that makes for maximum clarity, right? So the starches that have that are ones like potato starch or uh tapioca

[24:46] starch, root-based uh uh, and tuber-based starches. These starches tend to swell extremely rapidly. The granules rupture rapidly, at which point it becomes very clear. So, you know, those are going to have higher clarity, things like potato starch. Also, starch that's higher, like other types of starch, like waxy cornstarch, not cornstarch, waxy cornstarch, which is high in a millopectin, tends to be more clear because

[25:10] millipectin tends to be more clear and it's easier to paste out and also red grades less.

[25:17] Now, any starch you have is going to have the issue that when it cools down, it's going to thicken significantly. I think less so probably for potato starch, but I didn't have a chance to look it up. If you want to move just to a hydrocoloid for thickening with clarity,

[25:30] then, obviously, you can add a little bit of xanthan at the end of your cooking procedure and it will stay, it will add its thickening

[25:37] capability, whether it's hot or it's cold. The problem with Xanthan is if you add too much Xanthan, your product's

[25:43] going to get snotty. It looks really like snot and very jiggly. So you want to add low percentages. You never want to add really more than about to a sauce more than about a quarter of a percent up to about a 3rd of a

[25:54] percent. If you go over that, you're going to start noticing some Xanthan characteristics to it. You can go up to half a percent sometimes, but I wouldn't. You know what I mean? And, you know, we hate the Xanthani look at things, right? That jiggly, that jiggly look. In a sauce, it's going to be eaten as a lot of sauce. In certain applications, it's okay to have that texture because you're not having a large quantity of

[26:15] it there where you can see the motion on the surface. It's mainly the motion on the surface. I mean, there's some snotty texture to the actual mouthfield, but mostly it's the way it looks that is so horrible, right? Yeah. But you might want to move to something like, not a regular locust being gum, but a, you know, a purified locust bean gum. They're hot soluble, they need to be heated up, but they can be very good, clear locust bean

[26:40] gum. And you can buy that from, I'm sure modern's pantry carries it or if not, you know, CP Kelco makes some, a bunch of people make clear locust bean gums, but they're highly refined. They're good thickness. Also, purified guar is very clear. And so you can get a good purified guar gum. Guar is cold or hot, so you can add it and then, you know, use it as you go. And maybe those will be useful for it. You got to make sure that you don't get just regular cruddy guire, because regular cruddy guire

[27:08] taste bad, and regular coretti guire also is not clear because it hasn't been purified to have only the

[27:15] hydrocoloid, the active polysaccharides in it. I believe, what are they, glucomanons, whatever. can't remember. But anyway, so you get a hold of those. Of course, we all know the price of guar has gone up due to fracking. Thanks fracking. Thanks a lot. Thanks, you know. I heard there's an environmental problem with it, too. I haven't heard that. Anyway, then again, I only listen to cooking issues. Yeah, exactly. There you go. So anyway, so take a look at that. Hopefully that will work out for you. Yeah? Okay. We have a question in from Zoe at 69 Cobrook Row, our friend Tony

[27:49] Cannelliaro's place, and the drink factory, and they hope we're doing well, are we? Yeah. Yeah? Good. We're looking to do some work with calcium oxide. And I'm wondering if you had any advice. Also, this may sound a bit strange, but knowing it can be quite an aggressive chemical. Is there a food safe version of it, or is it a case of just being careful? As always, any information is greatly appreciated. Okay. Calcium oxide. I have not heard, so calcium oxide is CAO, right? Quicklime. Uh, and the main use of calcium oxide that I know of in food is actually to make

[28:26] self heating cans because you add anytime uh, calcium oxide is added to water. going to have a very, very strong reaction where it absorbs the water and turns into calcium hydroxide. And that reaction liberates a boatload of heat. So if you go to the Wikipedia. Uh, this is what they quoted. So, you know, I can't verify it because it's Wikipedia. You know, Nastasia could go in there and enter that, you know, whatever she wants, right? In fact, she's doing it right now. Uh, uh, I think that's actually what she's doing all the time. What she's doing that. She's actually just loading in like, she's updating like really like random facts. She's like, uh, you know, she's like, Elliot Gould, Wikipedia? You have written on Elliot Gould's Wikipedia page? Awesome. Awesome. I love myself. Elliot Gould. We were talking about him like over Christmas. Oh, man, I love my man. I love myself, son Elliot Gould. What happened to Elliot Gould? don't know. I love smell. I love myself some really cool. Anyways, uh, so, you know, don't trust anything on Elliot Gould's Wikipedia page from now on,

[29:29] because you know, Nastasia just put her fingers in there and they're like, all of a sudden, you know, Elliot Gould's going to be friends with Elton

[29:34] John. All sorts of terrible things are gonna happen. Anyway, according to them, one liter of water, we'll combine with 3.one kilograms of calcium oxide to give calcium hydroxide and 3.4

[29:47] mega joules of energy. To put that into perspective, that is an entire kilowatt

[29:52] hour or the same amount of energy it takes to run a 1000 watt thing for an

[29:56] hour or in calories, 846,000 calories. And it can deliver it at a fairly high heat. So that's a very high heat interaction. So I don't know of any use for calcium oxide. itself in food, but calcium hydroxide is extremely interesting. So calcium hydroxide, which you can get as form of pickling lime. You can get it in Mexican places as Cal, which is, you know, what was used for

[30:25] nixtamalization. It's also available, membrane just erased, but it's also available

[30:30] under a couple of the names, but, you know, that stuff's great, and it's, oh, a Thai red line paste and Thai line paste. You can get it. It has, you know, it's calcium hydroxide base. And that's really interesting. It has a faint cementy taste on its own. It's not very soluble, but it's also used to do things like

[30:49] nixtamilization, which changes the taste of things. And anything that requires something that's either has basic or that has calcium is one of the reactions. So we use it a lot. It's also used in sugar production because they, for a number of reasons. And this is interesting. I did not know. I knew that they have to keep sugar on the relatively basic side when they're processing it to prevent it from inverting, right? Because if sugar is even a little bit acidic. If sucrose, table sugar is even a little bit acidic as it's being processed, it will invert into glucose and fructose separately, which is a problem for sugar manufacturers because then it won't crystallize

[31:22] out, and they don't sell fructose and glucose, they sell sucrose. They sell table sugar. So everything is kept on the neutral or slightly basic side. But when you're doing when they're doing beet sugar, they go through a process and I learned this this morning of not carbonation, one of my favorite things on the

[31:37] earth, but carbon notation. And what they do there is they put, uh, they put calcium hydroxide into the mix

[31:46] with uh, into the, into the juice. And then they shoot uh, CO2 carbon dioxide into that. And what happens is the carbon dioxide reacts with the calcium hydroxide to form calcium

[32:00] carbonate. And calcium carbonate isn't soluble. So what it does is it forms particles of calcium carbonate. And as it forms those particles, it traps other things in it, and so it can be used as a clarifying aid. So if anyone out there, I wonder whether there's a way to do an inexpensive,

[32:15] uh, you know, centrifuge, free, uh, fairly quick clarification using calcium hydroxide. Maybe, interesting. Someone check it out. Someone tells me what's going on. Anyway, so there you have it, right? Yeah. Okay. Milk Cult wrote in. Can you guys cover real buttermilk, the byproduct of butter production, and acidified buttermilk, and impacts on hydrocollid. Well, okay. So here's the thing. So when I use, whenever you go buy buttermilk in a store, you're buying what's called cultured buttermilk, and it's not really buttermilk, it's just a low fat milk that they treat with a culture that's, I guess, you know, similar to what would be in a

[32:53] culture, in real cultured cream, right? Now, so what you're getting there is the actual milk. The caseine is there. Uh, you know, everything is there in the normal proportions as would be for low fat milk. Only it's been cultured with bacteria. So it's tart, it's acidic, uh, and it's thicker, right? In buttermilk, what you do is you take cream, and you make butter with it, and the stuff that's left over is buttermilk. That's what real buttermilk is. And what it's mainly composed of is the whey proteins, the, because, you know,

[33:31] the, the casing is what's, the, the milk solids go with the oil when you're making butter, but you, you know, you have some, you have casing, some casing,

[33:39] I guess the casing comes out too. But some of it's trapped as milk solids and the thing, but all the whey proteins are basically in

[33:45] there, I guess some caseine, some fat, some little bit of fat that's left over, and a lot of like great

[33:52] emulsifiers and lactose and water. Um, If you use sweet cream to make it, uh, in other words,

[34:01] just like right from, as the way you buy it from the grocery store, then uh, that cream, it will not be tart. will not be acidic. So most of the recipes that you're using buttermilk for in, you know, pancakes and whatnot. What you're really using them for is the acidity. You counting on the acidity from them. And that's why you add baking soda to those recipes because the baking soda is interacting with the acidity in the buttermilk to leaven your products,

[34:23] like, let's say, pancakes. You know, they also sent tend to make a more tender crumb, things like biscuits, not that nastasia would know because she hates biscuits. Very similarly, sourdough starter is mainly used in pancakes, not for its leavening

[34:36] capability, and that's why you can use an old, nasty sourdough starter for pancakes. You're using a sourdough starter there for its acidity to re- and that's why a lot of those buttermilk pan- sorry, sourdough pancakes will have soda in them, baking soda in them, because they're actually doing an

[34:50] acid-base reaction, and not leavening in a traditional way, or they're augmenting the traditional leavening with

[34:56] a NASA base reaction. However, when I make buttermilk, I typically take my cream. I will buy buttermilk and you have to make sure that the buttermilk that you're using is has active cultures. And so the one I get from Whole Foods is usually very active. I've had bad luck sometimes with the one I get at my local supermarket, of a culture not being active enough. And then you take your cream, and 2, like your quart of cream, you can add, you know, like a half a cup or so of buttermilk, and then I let it sit out in the kitchen overnight, and then my cream is cultured. And then I get real buttermilk from, and that's the way you would make cultured butter to

[35:34] be let it sit however long you want for the culture to develop, for the cream to ripen, and then you make your butter

[35:39] with it. That buttermilk is acidic, and that buttermilk, so that buttermilk has the, like, the best of all the world has, like, the interesting, awesome taste of buttermilk. It has the emulsifying properties of, you know, that are in a traditional old school buttermilk. And it also has, which I guess mainly come from probably the whey proteins. I'm not sure And it also has the acidity. So what do you think? Good. Good. Okay. Um, and I guess it's time for our 2nd commercial break already. Yeah, 2nd commercial break, cooking issues.

[36:38] Like what you hear so far? Support the network and become a member. Membership helps us bring you the best food radio in the world and gives you access to 1000s of dollars in discounts at the sustainably minded businesses that support us. To become a member, visit heritageradionetwork.org today.

[37:07] And welcome back to cooking issues. Anna from Hungary Road in. Thank you for covering my questions last week and clearing up my Dulce de leche recipes and processes. I made Dulce de leche without the water this past weekend and stirred almost constantly and it did work. Previously, I thought the water was there to prevent the milk or sugar from burning while they interact, and the water is just slowing the process. I read more on the my reaction. I learned a lot. Anyways, I want to say thank you for giving me a heads up and now we're ready for flavors and perfecting the recipe. Well, thanks. I'd love to hear a feedback that something actually worked, right? Right. Feels good. Okay. In from Nick. in Seoul, Korea. And he is writing to you, Nastasia, because he doesn't really care what I say. Sorry I missed you this week. I'm Nick from Seoul Korea. I called about cold smoking bacon. I just wanna follow up my inquiry. Dave says, I'm not going to get the desired effect, which, by the way, is to reduce the emissions and deposit of harmful substances while preserving the good smoky flavor of bacon, because the good smoky Roman that we love is released at the combustion

[38:10] temperatures along with the various possible carcinogens and other nasty stuff. Well, that is, unless I make major modifications to my setup. What if you go low and slow? Woods essential oils and aroma compounds are also released at lower temperatures, say 200 to 300

[38:25] Celsius? No, wouldn't keeping it under the combustion temperature of 2 or 300 Celsius for longer duration, more or less produces

[38:31] desired effect. And also, do you have any experience smoking with herbs, grains,

[38:35] flowers, and pollens or any mixture of them? Are there any things I should be made aware of before giving it a whirl? Looking forward to hearing from you. Best regards Nick. Okay, so we have to separate what's going on here. Woods essential oils and aromas do go out at lower temperatures, but you

[38:50] gotta remember, these are compounds that are already in the wood themselves.

[38:54] So things like the aroma of cedar or the aroma of sandal wood or any of those aromas or pine. Those things are in the wood, uh, and relatively easy to volatilize. In fact, they're there. can smell them, right? So they're clearly they're fairly easy to volatilize. The other things in them, uh, like, you know, the the phenolic uh, things like uh, the one that you always think of as being associated with smoky

[39:20] flavor is guayacol. And that is not in the wood to begin with. It needs to be produced, and it's produced by the pyrolysis of Lignin at high temperatures. Now, is there a way, maybe, to produce

[39:38] it really long, it's not? I don't know. I haven't wasn't able to find anything in the literature to to make, to figure out like what those flavors, to produce those flavors at a lower temperature? In addition, remember that the temperature at which the smoke is produced, even in

[39:55] the higher temperature range, which is where we're talking about, the actual flavors that you're produced, the actual reactions that take place are dependent on that temperature.

[40:04] So the flavor of a particular smoke is going to depend on the temperature at which it's created as well. So it's not like even all high temperatures are created equal. But I don't know of a way that you can get traditional smoke flavors at lower temperature. Now, like I say, getting the volatiles out of it and making those kind of flavors, I think

[40:20] it would be very, you know, be easy to do at those lower temperatures, but not the traditional smoky flavor.

[40:25] If someone tell someone call back and or write me and tell me of a way to do it. but I don't know of any way. Okay, hello, cooking issues team. From Matthew. I hope everything is good with you guys in 2013, I decided to add some Xanthan gum and soy

[40:40] lesson then to my vinaigrette recipe to help it stay emulsified. Now, Xanthan is, of course, the, you know, one of the magic hydrocoloids that comes from bacteria, and it's awesome because you can use it in very small quantity, so it doesn't mask flavor.

[40:54] It can go into almost any recipe, whether it's acidic or not acidic. It can go, it can be heated, it can be cold. It suspends things like pepper because it has what's called a yield point, so it forms a weak gel unless it's being agitated.

[41:09] So it's amazing stuff. Problem before, we said, it used too much of it and things get snotty. But it's really kind of amazing, amazing stuff. Uh, So, less thin, of course, is less thin, which is a

[41:20] phospholipid that's derived from soybean, uh, processing. Less thin is in a lot of recipes. Anytime we use egg yolk as an emulsifier, we're also using less of them, but remember less at the end from an egg yolk is not the same thing as less than from soy, very

[41:35] related though. Anyway, that was just the before we get to the full thing, so you know. Okay, the 1st recipe I use for a reference was here on HTTP,

[41:43] ModernistCookingMadeEasy.com. And they made a maple vinaigrette recipe. It called for 0.6 0.6% less than, and 0.2% Xanthan. I made a vinaigrette that was about 840 grams, and then added 5 grams of less than, and one.7 grams of

[42:02] xanthan, and spun the whole thing in a VitaPrep. Vit Prep's always a good call, by the way. Love the vitaprep. Alas, it broke almost immediately and shortly after completely separated. After this, I consulted Martin Lerch's Kymos's texturous

[42:16] Hydrocoloid Cookbook, and its recipe called for 0.2%, less a thin, and 0.1 to 0.4% Xanthan. Again, I started with 840 grams of vinaigrette, and then I had one. 7 grams of less than and 0.85 grams of xanthan. Also, a complete failure. I'm not really sure where I went wrong, maybe my inferior mask skills contributed. In both cases, I completely ignored the recipes and used my own vinaigrette recipe and just added the

[42:42] hydrocolloids in the proportion specified. Could this be the issue? I'd assume that with the additives and the ratios, with the additives, the ratios of the other components weren't as important. Any other suggestions or ideas on using less than Xanthan or other stuff to keep dressings nicely emulsified. Thanks. Okay, uh, we tend to use, um, uh, when I'm thinking salad dressings. I typically use something called uh, a tickaloid, uh, you know, 310

[43:07] or, or 210 or 201 or 301. I think they're all very similar. They're mixtures of gum Arabic and Xanthan, because I have a lot of them around because I use them in drinks. So they're using a gum Arabic slash Xanthan system to thicken and stabilize. And those things last forever, forever. And both of them are very good at different, at different acid levels. So here's a way, there's a couple of things that can be going wrong there. First of all, I looked at the recipes and both recipes state their percentages in a way that is normal for cooks to state

[43:38] them, but not really accurate. Hydrocolloids, the thickening power of a hydrocolloid is based strictly on how much it's interacting with the water in a system.

[43:50] So I looked at the maple vinaigrette recipe. It was 45 grams of balsamic vinegar, 15 grams of lemon

[43:56] juice, and 20 grams of maple syrup, and 90 grams of olive oil. So when they were doing the recipe calculations for that, they added all of those numbers up to get the

[44:05] percentages. However, the Xanthan gum isn't interacting with the 90 grams of oil. So that shouldn't factor into your percentages, right? It's just not, it shouldn't. Also, the balsamic vinegar is mostly water, so that's okay. The lemon juice is mostly water, so that's okay. And the 20 grams of maple syrup, though, is only 13rd water. So that's like 7 grams. So if you look at it, this recipe, uh, they says that one gram of less of thin is 0.6%. It actually using one.. 4% of less than on a water basis. Now, less than you can't really count as a water basis alone because it's interacting with the oil because it's an emulsifier. So like the, the, the water, the total amount and the water oil part is is important. I don't really know how to work it out from an accurate standpoint, but anyway. But back on the Xanthan gum, he says he's using 0.2% Xanthan gum, but on a water base, he's really using 0.45% Xanthan gum. Okay? So 11 problem is, is that when you're looking at it, you should look at the amount of water in your recipe for your Xanthan,

[45:07] and in fact, he's adding 0.45. I went and analyzed Martin Lerch's recipe and he's using, I have it here somewhere. Yeah, he's using actually much more Xanthan than he would because he's not counting the oil on

[45:24] his Xanthan either. So, you could up your Xanthan or make sure your percentages are in line with what they want for the

[45:31] liquid. Another problem you might be having is maybe your lesser than is no good, and you're lesser than

[45:36] is, are you using powdered lesser than, or are you using the one that's in granules? The granules might not be dissolving properly. The good way to figure out whether it's the lesser thing that's the problem is you can figure on a general basis that egg yolks are roughly 10% less thin.

[45:49] So if your recipe works just by adding 10 times uh, the amount of egg yolk as you

[45:56] added uh, less of thin, right? So in your case, let's say you were using the one gram of lesson. If you were adding 10 grams of egg yolks, it should have roughly that same amount of less

[46:04] than, but it's not going to be a problem hydrating. So that one, if you added the egg yolk and it worked, then bang, it's probably your

[46:11] less than's not going in there properly. Could be, you weren't hydrating the Xanthan properly. Remember, you're doing it a very acidic environment here, if you're using some of these recipes. So just take a look at it. Another, so I would look at your hydration, even though you're using a vitiprip and make sure everything's getting hydrated. Um, I don't know about less than performance in extremely acidic environments. I don't know how acidic your environment is, but look at the actual water content of what's going on. Test it with egg yolk to see whether that's the problem. Up the Xanthan slightly, because the way the percentages are being calculated is a little bit

[46:45] wonky, or switch to something like Tickleloid 310, which I know works in these situations, because I've done it all the time. Now, one more thing is that you might want to whisk the less thin into the oil if you can. And if you have a water that's in there that isn't very acidic, if you're using something that's not very acidic, I would put the

[47:03] hydrocolloids as much into a non-acidic thing as possible before you start, they'll hydrate faster and easier. Uh, yeah? do you think? Good. Good. All right. Okay. Let me see. Find another good question. Uh, oh, we had a question in from Ben. Actually, we probably only have time for like one or 2 more questions anyway, right? So, uh, we have a question in from Ben, uh, from San Francisco. He says, hello, Dave, Hammer, and Jack, and I'm going to put Joe in there. Yeah, really? Come on. Guys, shout outs to Joe when you submit questions. No, seriously. Seriously people. Where's the love? I know it. I know it. You know what? Although I'm sure you get the love as the front man in the band, right? All I want on Valentine's Day is to be recognized on issues. Next week is our Valentine's show. Right, but you know. 2 weeks from now. Yeah, but the Valentine's Day is on the 14th, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but like, but Ben wants like advice now. He got to plan in advance. No, no, no. He's not going to make his, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. I know, just let you know. So, yeah, next week we'll, you know, we'll have the Valentine's Day, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. thought you never answered this last week. No, I didn't get to it because we had colors. You would know if you... Whatever. I'm not even going to get into it. not even going to get into it. Don't make me. Okay. Oh, and everyone else who's heard it is here? Okay. So Ben went to San Francisco. Big fan of the show in the blog, so much so that I finished the entire cooking issues backlog on winter vacation with my girlfriend on Jolly. Now, remember, she wrote in and said that and we apologized to her on air for that, for her having to listen to it. Perhaps you recall her email. I do feel guilty about making her listen to it, but it was worth it. To make up for being such a horrible guy. I want to cook her a unique and outstanding Valentine's dinner. All right, I like this kind of question, right? We can go off on this one. I have a great pressure cooker, the Fistler brand, which I haven't used that one actually yet. I don't have it. But I hear it's okay. I hear it's good. You like it a lot, so maybe it's great. I have no idea. I'm used it. An immersion circulator, which is a, he has a crazy old poly-science 7312. We have that. That's the one that's on our circulator chiller that we used in the that we use with the Roto app or we're using with the Roto app. Vitamix, good call, strong call on the Vitamix. I love it when someone has a vitamix at home, because that just makes everything easier. And most regular equipment. What would you make for your wife on Valentine's Day? If you really owed her this time. Wow, it's mostly something else other than just the cooking issues. I mean, I hope I'm not that much punishment. I am kind of a little bit, talk to my, talk to my family. If you really owed her this time, something epic or unusual that a reasonably sophisticated amateur cook could make. Thanks for everything, your future Kickstarter supporter, Ben. Okay. This is an excellent question, but okay, so I have I have some good perspective. I've been doing Valentine's day, you know, meals for my wife for a long time. And I don't tend to go out on Valentine's Day. Uh, I always, always, especially before I was doing this professionally, uh, I was, um, I was cooking her meals, right? Here's the here's the issue. And here's what you have to look out for. When you're cooking a meal at home. for Valentine's Day. You're cooking it for just the 2 of you, I hope. Right? And so the main problem is to organize your meal, such that you actually get to sit down with her during the meal because

[50:36] it's going to be irritating for her if you're not sitting down at the meal with her, right? So that used to be one of my main problems is I would have all this prep work done, but then there'd be a long lag in between the dishes as they

[50:48] as they rolled out. And also, you know, I would be standing up doing a lot of prep, so the dinners would go very long. This is why I would suggest to you that you get that you do a lot of the stuff in the circulator and do as much post-finishing as possible.

[51:04] Uh, you know, I would like you to write and tell me kind of like what she likes to

[51:10] eat, and then I could give you some more recommendations for for right beforehand. But also, I used to like to do, like, probably like 4 or 5 courses on the Valentine's Day. Get your desserts done beforehand, right? Uh, and, you know, this, unfortunately, it's cold out. So you could do some sort of like hot coal. I used to do a lot of things that lit on fire because, I mean, that's what I do. I like stuff on fire. But try to go. I mean, I used I used to go nuts. I would do, I would always do a fish, a poultry, a meat, a dessert, and an appetizer,

[51:40] some court, and finish with cheese. Definitely get a couple of bottles of wine in vacuum van. Don't force yourself to drink only one wine throughout the entire thing and start out with champagne, get a clamshell thing to open it. But I would definitely do, uh, I would definitely do most of my work in the circulator if at all possible so that you can sit with her

[51:58] during uh, the time that you're eating and light something on fire at the end. Does that make sense? What do you think, Snows? What do you like to have for the, you don't care about Valentine's? What do you What would you like? I really don't You don't care. She's like, make it hearty pasta. Just make it a hearty pasta. Haughty. hearty pasta. Oh, here's one for you. Try, so, you know, if you like quail. and I like quail, the problem is also when you're doing this, another problem you're doing, if you don't do lots of plated dishes all the time, because you're cooking at home,

[52:28] then why would you do that? The, the problem is, is that you plan a meal, and I've done this several times, is you plan a long meal for the Valentine's Day, and then you don't, uh,

[52:38] you, you make her so full that she can't finish the last couple of

[52:43] things. And in fact, the main issue with all of the small plates situations that you have in restaurants is it's extremely difficult to get the portion sizes right when you're doing multiple

[52:54] courses because a little bit too little and you're hungry at the end. Now you can just solve that by making some sort of mega filling dessert, right? Or a little bit too much, and they can't finish this stuff as it goes through, then you're going to get depressed because you've been working all this time, and she's going to feel

[53:10] bad that she's not finishing what you're making, either that, or she's going to stuff herself, which will then make, you know, the both of you, you know, we feel like you're stuffed. You don't like feeling stuffed at the end of it when you went on an occasion like that, right, Styles? No loving for later, right? I was hoping you would say that, so I would not have to. Thank you. App appreciate that. Finally, Nastasia comes through for me in a pinch. Hey, guess what, cooking issues, listeners. I'm single. So for Valentine's Day, you know, shoot us a line. I the only one here without a date. Really? Yeah, man. Come on, really? Jack has no date. No date. Really? All right, listen. Anyone in the New York area? don't have any women, listeners. Whoa. Wow. We don't know that. Wow. I'd be happy if we had women listening. I think we do. Wow. Anyway, back to Ben's problem. Ben. Ben. Well, Jack has a problem with a date. I'm working on, okay, we have 2 separate problems here. I have Ben's problem of what he's going to make on Jolly for Valentine's

[54:07] Day, and hopefully I'm giving him advice without giving him specific advice. And then we have the problem that Jack needs a date. These are 2 separate interviews. We have a 3rd problem that there are no female listeners of the show, apparently. Yeah, you know, by the way, apparently Booker's new catchphrase. He says apparently every other word is apparently out of his mouth now. But, okay, so these all need to be addressed, but right now, I'll say some of the things that, I mean, look, get

[54:31] an extremely, extremely, extremely high quality steak, and then do a low temperature steak, do 50,

[54:38] like small piece, right? Cut it, pre-cut it. So it's nice. Uh, do it at 55 Uh, do it like up, uh, at 55, drop it to 50, then do a finish au

[54:49] poiv style with like a cassis sauce, uh, and then you can finish it with whatever else you want as a state course. That's a freaking knockout. It's not going to take you any time at all. Make a good beef, uh, like a beef tasting sauce beforehand because you're not going to have a pan foam to make the, uh, to make the

[55:06] casis sauce for the, uh, plow thing. But that's like there's a knockout. Also, for the poultry side, If you might not want to go all low temp because it's going to be a little bit too much,

[55:16] but, you know, a low temp duck breast sliced with like a side salad, where you just finish it in the pan after it's

[55:23] cooked, because you could take it almost from cold in a pan to crisp up the skin, 57 degrees on the duck breast for about 40 minutes, 45

[55:31] minutes. Make sure you smash the duck down so it's nice and flat on the skin before you put it in the

[55:36] bag to cook it in a circulator. Also, a knockout and a good poultry thing to lead into the meat, especially if you keep your portions

[55:43] smaller. I would get the world's best cheese. I like to have cheese at the end before dessert. I like to have a cheese course. I just do with a glass of port, and you can do that or you can do it beforehand if you really need to, but to me, really good cheese makes a meal. Another, like, if you want to go weird on the, on the, on the poultry side, get the small quails, the small ones, you can buy them deboned already, or you can inside

[56:10] out bone them. And this is one of my favorite things I used to do was I would low temp. I didn't have actually circulators at the time. So I had to do it old school. I would poach eggs, like a chump sucker. And then you would shimmy the egg into the boneless quail, which is really kind of weirdly

[56:27] gross. Wait till you do it, you'll see. And then, uh, I mean, you don't want to deep fry on the Valentine's Day, but like flash cook or deep

[56:33] fry the quail, so it's crispy on the outside, but then when you cut into it, the egg yolk is still runny and

[56:39] it and the quail sauces itself. And that's a really interesting fun thing, like a quail with a runny egg on the inside that holds its shape and you cut it and it self-sauce itself. Make sure you serve that on some sort of like thin but like well-made kind of bruschetta thing. so that you can eat it all together. I mean, I've done that a couple times on Valentine's Day. Uh, but the steak's always a winter. And I'm trying to think of what else, what else I would do. But anyway, take those pieces of advice, send me back a tweet align. Tell me what you're looking for exactly on what she likes to eat. Uh, and uh, we need a day for Jack, right? We need some women listeners and a date for Jack. Hey, women listeners, prove that you're there and call in and give Jack some love it. And next week on the questions, I want a shout out to Joe, cooking issues. Thanks for listening to this program on Heritage Radio.org. You can find all of our archived programs on our website or as podcasts in the iTunes store by searching Heritage Radio Network. You can like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter at Heritage underscore radio. You can email us questions at any time at info at heritageradionetwork.org. HeritageRadio Network is a nonprofit organization. To donate and become a member, visit our website today. Thanks for listening.