[0:00] Today's program has been brought to you by Hearst Ranch, the nation's largest

[0:04] single source supplier of free range, all-natural, grass fed, and grass finished beef. For more information, visit hurstranch.com. You are listening to Heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwood, Brooklyn. If you like this program, visit heritageradionetwork.org for 1000s more.

[0:27] Cooking issues.

[0:50] Calling your questions, too! Cooking issues! Hello, and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold. Your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live from Aberta's Pizzeria in Bushwick,

[1:05] Brooklyn, on the Heritage Radio Network. Join with the entire crew today, Nastasia the Hammer Lopez, Jack and Joe in the engineering booth. How you guys doing? Hey. Nice. Nice, nice. Speaking of, uh, oh, call any questions to 718-497-2128. That 718-497-2128. Okay. By the way, cooking or other, you know, anything, spring related questions, whatever you got. By the way, uh, I noticed that we had a little bit of a sponsorship, that we were almost brought to you by her, and then it turns out we were brought to you by her

[1:34] friends, her friends, Grass Fed Beef. Greatest, greatest grass fed beef song, as we all know, greatest grass fed beef song, probably ever. Guess what? What? somebody covered it. So we're going to hear that later today? So we're going to hear a cover version. I think we're going to play the original first and then we'll rock with the cover a little later. And I think we should also, at some point, find out what the Reverend Horton Heat is doing these days and see if we can't, like, get permission from the Reverend Horton Heat for the

[1:58] Hearst Ranch people to have him play his fabulous song, Eat Steak. You remember that song? Let's do it Yeah, it's a good song. Good song. Well, kind of a good song. Anyway, uh, But, uh, initially brought by beer and beer and beef, good combo. We should do like a sponsorship beer and beef one day. I could do a beer and beef dish. Right? Everyone likes, everyone likes a, you know, a Guinness braised cut of beef every now and any. Well, not everyone. Michael Natkin for one. Yeah. congratulations to him. What happened? He is nominated for a beer boy. Sweet. I knew that, but I had to draw you into it. See that? See how I had to pretend to see how that works. See how you like, you know, people out there don't know what's anyway, whatever. So yes, congratulations to Michael Nakkin on being nominated for James Beard. which category was it? Vegetarian book. You better win. Who's against? There's some good ones. I don't know. can look it up. We wanted to win. We want Michael Nacken. I bought 3 books of his for friends. Christmas. With your own money. With my own money. Michael, Michael, you can't possibly know what an endorsement that is from Queen

[2:58] Cheepula, Nastasia Lopez. I am King Chipula. I am a cheap, cheap cheap. But it's weird. about some things not about other things, right? Anyway, so that all of that is useless information for you out there. Sorry. Really interesting news. We have a question later having to do with Acrylamide in Denmark, which we'll get to later. But I was searching, you know, Denmark and food and problems. And I found something that Nastasia is going to particularly enjoy. I don't know why I think that, but I think she will. And it goes back to the recent spate of scandals whereby everything and its brother has been contaminated somehow,

[3:33] right? And so everyone's now like in a complete testing frenzy that the meets that you're getting are not authentic, et cetera, et cetera. Like, perhaps your, perhaps your lasagna is actually a horse lasagna. Could be, at least in Europe. So the latest one, which is like super box is, uh, new meat scandal, pork and shawarma. What? Yeah, yeah. So it's like, more, so there's a, uh, so shawarma, you know, for those who don't know what shawarma

[4:01] is, if you know what a Jiro is, it's kind of like their hero. If you know what a donor kebab is, it's kind of like that. But the last thing you want to be doing is being a Muslim and have pork in your shawarma. That's the last thing you want. And so, um, uh, the uh, Imran Shaw, spokesperson for the Islamic

[4:21] Society in Denmark, told the online daily politician BK, this is by no means a minor infraction. This is a huge scandal that will cause an outcry among Danish Muslims. Our religion prohibits us from eating pork. Now Muslims will think twice before eating shawarma for fear that they're not adhering to the rules of their faith, said Shaw. Sold as this is all from this website. Sold as beef, more than 200,000 Muslims currently live in Denmark, and Shawarma is particularly popular because it does not traditionally contain pork, which is considered unclean by Muslims.

[4:48] However, the Danish veterinary food veterinarian food administration, who the heck does veterinary science and food in the same day? It's kind of crazy, right? I mean, I want that stuff separate. Anyway, maybe that's the problem. Yeah. Anyway, found traces of the forbidden pork in a fried beef kebab product manufactured by Andalu kid, the largest supplier, Shawarma meat in

[5:04] Copenhagen, uh, quote, uh, Mustafa Shaheen, the CEO and owner of Andalu kid. Sorry. Anyway, I thought you'd like that, right? Sorry. It's not, well, it's not allowed. Obviously, it's not allowed. Food contamination is not a laughing matter, but what's interesting is that as soon as people start

[5:27] testing, the, you know, the poor kid's the fan. Anyway, uh, Rick writes in, uh, regarding uh, Chicha that we discussed, I think last week or maybe the week before. Dave Nastasi, Jack and Joe. I was listening to episode 118. I can't believe they've had 118 episodes. nuts. In particular segment about Chicha. And for those of you that don't know, Chicha is their traditional

[5:48] fermented, grain, traditionally, corn, corn, I guess, although other things, you can use roots, not necessarily grain starch, starch fermentations from South

[5:58] America. And, you know, one of the traditional ones is with corn. And in order to get the starch in corn or any starch, really, roots, whatever, cassava, whatever, to turn into

[6:09] sugar so you can ferment them into ethanol, you need to introduce amylase enzymes. One way to do that is to germinate product by, you know, letting it grow a little bit and then killing

[6:18] the, killing the germ so that you, um, so that you then, you know, don't actually

[6:22] con, like use up all the sugar that you need. And then you use the enzymes from the germination to convert the starch to sugar,

[6:28] mashing in beer, to parlance. Anyway, so, um, point is, is that if you don't mash something out or you don't have something that you can germinate, you have

[6:37] amylace, wear it, Stas, and you spit. Yeah, so you can chew stuff up and it's traditional in a lot of communities that didn't have the ability or products that

[6:46] could terminate properly. Traditionally, things would be chewed up. And then the saliva would be allowed to work on the products such that you could get the same effect as you did from germinating. Okay, that's what we're talking about. Just so you don't have to go back and listen to 118 God help you if you have to do that. Okay. I recalled an episode of a show called Brewmasters, uh,

[7:03] where uh, Sam, uh, Collagione. Is that how you pronounce it? Calagione. What do you think? You're the Italian. Yeah. Although he's from like Delaware, so he probably pronounces it differently. At Dogfish Head, Great Brewery. you know, they make some crazy products, but they also make some incredibly delicious products. A dogfish head made a chicha beer where he and his staff chewed the corn, spat it out, then added it to the wort, and the beer was then served at the

[7:27] dogfish head pub. The show, they even tested employees to find those people whose saliva had more of the right enzymes needed to break down the corn, referred to by Sam as super chewers,

[7:37] uh, that in from Rick. So I read one article about them doing this. Here's the thing. So here's the argument of why it's okay to chew up your stuff and spit it out.

[7:46] The argument is that you're going to boil, uh, no matter what, you're going to boil the wart anyway, right? So you're going to kill any bacteria or any stuff that's in there. It's going to be rendered harmless by the boiling procedure. Now, I don't really know because I haven't had the time to look up whether or not that's legal or not. Like, in other words, like whether or not people would actually be okay if you actually listed the steps, like, I am literally going to put it in my mouth, chew it

[8:11] up, and spit it out, and I don't know. I mean, like, I'm not saying they didn't serve it because clearly they did. Um, and I, you know, I read that it was more difficult than they let on. They thought they were going to chew through a bunch of pounds of this stuff and nothing flat and it took them forever to chew it. Turns out hard work. Uh, but the, the point is, is that regardless whether or not it's legal. Then the question is, is it a good idea to do in your bar,

[8:32] brew pub or establishment? And for dogfish head, clearly, because they spend a lot of their time experimenting with old techniques, and, you know, ancient brews and ancient beverages, for them, it's clearly a necessary step they need to make.

[8:45] Now, step aside and let's say that you're not dogfish head. Like, is it a wise idea? The look on Nastasia's face, the horrified look on Nastasia's

[8:53] face, seems to tell me that, no, it's probably not a good idea. Let me give you. I'm going to get gross here for a sec. You all right what this does? I'm going to get gross here, right? Okay. So you're literally spitting into something you're going to serve to somebody, right? Okay. And if you weren't going to boil it, that wouldn't be okay, right? Right. Right. Now. Ready for the gross? Like, what of the analog? What if there was an enzyme and poop that did something, right? For instance, Kopi Luak, right? When you eat kopi lua coffee beans, they have passed through the gut of a civic cat and been pooped out of the civic

[9:25] cat. They civic cats poop in particular areas. They eat only the choices, coffee beans, and the enzymes in the digestive system, do something to the coffee bean to make it particularly delicious. I've never tasted it, but it's extremely expensive, right? Okay. So there you go, pooping coffee. Now, let's wash and clean and sterilize and roasted, so right nonsense. So if a person was to eat coffee beans and poop them out, would that be okay to

[9:47] boot coffee from? Would that be okay? No. Right. So that's the question, right? I mean, like, I don't know. I don't know. Interesting question. Kind of interesting question. I don't know. I don't really know. Someone tell me. Anyway, more stuff on the torch name. So as those, you know, we're working on a new kind of torch attachment that you're attaching the torch and it gets rid of the taste that I associate, I call torch taste, which I used to think came from the fuel, but in fact, turns

[10:12] out it comes from just the incredible high heat of a torch.

[10:15] We diffuse it, turn it into radiant heat, and we're trying to find a name for this gizmo. You can look on the cooking issues blog. get an idea what the hell we're talking about. Coke people have written in, by the way, asking where they can find the Kickstarter. The reason you can't find it is we haven't put it up yet. We're still, we have it out on what's called beta testing. So I, you know, we've given it to a group of about 5 or 6 chefs or, you know, 610 chefs, and we're having them test it now to see kind of what

[10:37] they, what they think, what they think the problems are, what solutions are, the problems. making it safer, et cetera, et cetera, right? It's a fun process. Oh, it's so fun. It's so fun that Nastasia wants to stab me in the eye every morning. Okay, uh, we're all, you know, whatever. I can be difficult. Okay, so, uh, here's some of the names because we had a contest on the names. And I think we're going to probably call, like we should probably call the contest after this because we've gotten a lot of really good names in, and we're pretty sure we're going to go with some combination of Sally plus something

[11:07] else, and we're just focusing on it. So we'll go through and we'll see whether anyone actually earned the free whatever. But we really super appreciate all the names that have been sent in. And I'm going to read the last list of the names. read them right now. I have the new T abbreviation of new Torch and a nod to the salamander, and I of newt with T as a capital at the end. I like Eye of Newt because of the witch thing. But you remember, I actually have to sell this product. Like these is, so like, it's all funny. Like, it's all funny. Like, these are things that I would come up with as well that I appreciate that I would,

[11:37] you know, so there's Pipe Piper that works with us. He's the punmaster. He should quit working with us and go just do puns for a living. Yeah, something. Yeah, but anyway, or for the, yeah, whatever, like weatherman, whatever, like meteorologist, like he could come up with their puns left and right. be awesome at it. But my point is, is that these are all piper worthy puns. They're great, but, you know, they don't want to necessarily have a product. They're supposed to be around for years. But anyway, here's the last list. Cooking issues team. This is from JD. I tweeted a torch name, decided to email it just to make sure. So that was also JD. No, my art reactor. That's a good name. My art reactor, but, you know, again, I don't, what a way, this is him. I realize it doesn't cover all the functionality, but I think it would be cool to pay homage, homage, pay homage to the technical

[12:21] term and chemist Louis Camille Maillard. Yeah, famous, famous man, not famous in his own life, the poor SOB. Also, what chef wouldn't want a serious kitchen tool that has reactor in the name? That's actually kind of true. I like reactor. I like reactor. And if you look up chemistry reactors online, They're pretty awesome. It's right for all sorts of nameplay in the back of the house. Maya, that puppy. Give it some more Maya. like Maya actually. Love the Love Yarded Up, etcetera. Or Myard Reaction Torch, MR Torch. You can call it Mr. Torch or Mr. T for an extremely marketable name. Sure, you could easily get Mr. T to endorse it. And of course, the tagline would be, I pity the fool. Or should I do it? I can't really do Mr. T. I pity the fool who doesn't use my Siri too. Cheers, JD. I wasn't bad. Yeah? It's been a long, long time, and I do love Mr. T. If you don't like Mr. T, something wrong with you. Hey, we got to call her. Oh, yeah? All right, okay, okay, I'll go back to the names in a second. Call her, you're on the air. Hi, Dave. Howdy. How's it going? I have a question of, so 2 questions. First is I want to get an eyesight whip. And I was wondering, what's your recommendation as far as the best side whip teeth? Okay, so is this for home or commercial? Um, home but, uh, hopefully commercial use. So kind of both, yeah. Okay, so, I mean, I like the ones that, 1st of all, you know, I have worked with the company in the past, so just, you know, bias there. Uh, but I've used I've used the off-brand ones before and they've been given to me and all this stuff and I have to admit as much as I hate shilling out for ISI here, uh, the

[13:56] off-brand ones tend to leak and the seals are cruddy and they just tend not to work as well. So I stick with the name brand ones. I'm sure there's another high quality one out there, but I don't know. Then, uh, I prefer I've had the home ones that, um, you know, are plastic on top and stainless

[14:12] elsewhere, and I think the ones that are kind of all stainless with the, um, with the silicone grips are, are better, right? So then now the next question is what size do you want to go with? Now, for all purpose uses, I think, like, either get the half liter or the leader, depending on what kind of volumes you're going to use. Like, unless you have a very specific application for the very small one, I wouldn't say it's necessarily that

[14:34] useful. I tend to use liter ones and half liter ones. The, you know, the thing is, if you're going to do small amounts in the full liter ones, you might need to dump an extra cartridge in versus if you were using

[14:45] a half liter one. But if you're not going to do it all the time, it's not that big of a loss and your capacity is now all of a sudden greater, right? So you bear that in mind when you're buying one. And, um, the other thing is, is that in general, uh, unless you have a very specific application where you need to keep something hot or cold for a long time, the thermo whips, which

[15:06] are, which are insulated. So they look like they hold a liter, but they only hold a half liter because they're insulated. They're great if you need to keep something hot for a long time and you don't have access to like a circulator or Bain

[15:16] Marie, where you can just keep it in hot water. But those applications are fairly, they're fairly specific and they upcharge for the thermal whip is very large,

[15:28] right? So, I mean, and remember, anything you can do in a thermo

[15:33] whip, you can do slightly less conveniently in a regular ISI by either sticking it into a hot water

[15:38] bath or by putting it in the fridge, one of the two. Um, and if you do, if you do buy a thermal whip, you still, you need to pre-chill it or preheat it with a fluid before you dump your initial before you dump your product in or it doesn't, doesn't work right.

[15:51] You know, if you do get the liter, you're going to have to contend with the fact that you guys got to remember to keep your recipe or anything,

[15:59] really. Any one of them. You have to make sure that your recipes are the same volumes every time when you're doing things like confusions. For things like whipped creams and foams, it doesn't matter as much. Okay, great. And my 2nd question is, um, I'm trying to, uh, mess around with making

[16:14] a Targa. Okay. I was wondering if you have any advice on, uh, how to go about doing that because I've seen recipes and seen, uh, previous chefs that work with make a target from, uh, you know, uh, row. Um, so I'm wondering if you have any advice for making a go. Mean regular chicken egg yolk? Hey, chicken egg yolk. kind of curing them so they have the same texture. So you can grate them like you would the target. Well, I mean, huh. So how would you do that? Uh, I guess it depends on what you what you want, right? So, uh, I mean, I would look into kind of miso curing, uh, of egg

[16:54] yolks and see kind of a miso cured egg yolk and then get the initial cure. The issue is you have to get enough water out of the egg yolk so that it's stable before you undergo the normal kind of dehydration process.

[17:03] And I know you probably don't want the flavor. I've never tried it. This is why I'm just sneaking off the top of my head is I've never done it. So like, you know, I'm just, I would look into seeing how the miso cured egg yolks work. Uh, I mean, the bonehead easiest way to do it would be probably to cook the egg yolks out at like 64, mold them into a

[17:22] block and then and then uh, with salt and then uh, and then let them dry, but target style. I don't, I mean, that's the bonehead easy way to do it, but it's not as elegant. I mean, if you want to keep the egg yolk whole and then grade it later, then you're going to have to do some form of very slow dehydration and salting and then later expose it to air and let it dry out.

[17:41] You know what I'm saying? Yeah, um, because I found a recipe for sea urchin, Target, where they mix turkey. Oh, yeah, to bind it? Sea urchin? and then they pureed it, and then folded it into, I mean, molded it, and then from

[17:55] there they did... I was wondering if that is an optional activist search, but thank you. Uh, sure. I mean, the question is, how much, I mean, you know, Uni is,

[18:08] like the eggs, the eggs, uh, the actual eggs are extremely, extremely fine in Uni, right? Super fine. Like much finer than they are in the fish rows that they make, you know, Botarga from. So, presumably, some of them are still whole, and then some of them are beat up by the pureeing, and

[18:25] then, and then the tapioca just glues the whole thing together, and then how much they add salt to it,

[18:30] presumably? Presumably, yeah. Yeah, they buried in kosher salt. I think they added any salt to it. Right. So they buried it in kosher. Right. Okay. So yeah, something of salt is going through biosmic. Yeah, I mean, so if it works for that, the problem with, you know, the problem with regular egg yolks is, you know, you puree an egg yolk and you puree

[18:51] uni, uni's going to have more structure pureed. So I guess that's why they're adding the tapioca. I mean, like, I don't know whether it's going to super adversely affect the flavor, but just taking the egg yolk up to like 64 or 63

[19:03] C is going to give you enough structure to have it sit around while it's doing its

[19:07] thing. But I don't know if it changes the stuff. And then, like I say, if you can just crack egg yolks into, and do miso curing of them because, you know, I've never done it when I've seen it done.

[19:17] All right? Okay. I hope they have please tweet the at cooking issues and tell me what happens when you test the stuff out because it'll give me an idea for future people who ask

[19:25] me. Great, thank you so much. Thank you. Have a great day. You too. All right. Okay, back to some torch names. What was the last one we had? Oh yeah, Celsius chef writes in. You got like Celsius, chef. Yeah, Celsius chef. Although, remember, I still fry in Fahrenheit, and I bake in Fahrenheit, but I do all my low temperature work in Celsius. Hey there, David Gang. I have the perfect name for your new tool, the blowzooka. I totally yell that. I totally yell down the line for that just because it's fun to say. Keep up the great work, guys. And how do I find the project on Kickstarter, if I'd like to support Chelsea Chef. will let you know when we actually have it up. I mean, look, I gotta be honest. I love the name Blowzooka. I can't actually call it that, but blowzooka. That was my vote, by the way. Really? I mean, how could it not be? That's an awesome name. I know. Blowzooka? awesome. Like Blowzooka Joe? do you think? Whoa, can we rename Joe Blowzooka Joe? Hell yeah. Can you write a song, Blowzuka Joe? Joe? Yeah, Jack and I will collaborate on this. I'll have it by next weekend. Ah, sweet, sweet, Blzuka Joe. Okay. Ole right saying, hi, here are a few names for your torch gizmo. First of all, I love the word gizmo. Love the word gizmo. I like the blog Gizmoto just because it's called gizmo dough. Anyway, uh, Torch tamer, the seer, especially if it can also predict the future. This, by the way, was the vote of Dax, my son, called it daddy's seer for a long time, not knowing what seer, like searing. anyway. So he calls it the seer, which is I kind of like that, but it sounds like kind of like really like a cult.

[20:50] The seer. Although anyway, the humane torch. All right, the humane torch. Like the human torch? Oh, like human torch. Yeah, human torch. good comic book reference there. And, you know, Nastasia always surprises me. Always surprised. I love that Cooking torch without issues. I get it? Yeah. Yeah. And the eye torch. Like, could be eye or eye, because it looks like an eye. Honestly, if you're looking to sell more than a few of these. Find a clever name, sous vide torch, sell the whole deal, torchhead included, and sous vide torch would be the top Google search results. Got to like a Google search result. Yeah, gotta like that. No matter what you decide, I was standing in line. Apple Store style to get one. relatively new to your podcast, but I'm burning through one to 3 a day. Many thanks. Ole. Oh, hey, you gotta mellow out on listening to this. You're gonna burn out. Like we, you can't listen to 3 of us a day. It's not possible. Right? Yeah. Okay, no more submissions now. Well, nostalgia, so harsh. on this list. What the hell is wrong with you? You're crazy. Dean Wynn writes in. Hey, Nastasia, Dave Jack, and Joe. I'm not sure where you guys are with the gadget names, but a gadget too. Good word. But I had to throw my hat in. I also like the term throw the head in. Initially, I thought about broiling and searing, but what you really are doing is applying heat by hand at the precision of an artist. So that led to the idea of a brush, firebrush, flashbrush, and torchbrush. Brushes, brush. Thanks for the show. Oh, thanks. I love the show and listen to all the podcasts, hoping to hear my name on the next show. Dean Nguyen. Here's your name again, Dean. Dean Wyn. Thank you for your submission, right? Yeah. Uh, okay. For the names. Okay, so no more. All right, so should we take a commercial break? All right, 1st commercial break.

[23:24] Herst, grass fed beef. Pasture raised on 150,000 acres in central California. Hearst Ranch Grassfit, the free range, sustainably produced, humane. First Ranch Grass Fed Beef, the authentic flavor of the American West. Oh, yeah. And

[23:55] you're back. Hey, welcome back to Creaking. I thought were doing the cover. No, we're gonna close the show with the cover. Okay, we have a cover of my favorite grass, uh, grass, uh, FedB song. Coming to you from Joel Gargano. Okay. This question in from Buddha regarding bacon substitution. Hi, Nastasia, Dave, Jack, Joe, at all. Are there any good substitutes for bacon or pork in recipes for soups or other dishes where they are used mainly as a flavoring and not as a

[24:19] focus? I'm a lifelong vegetarian and have never intentionally eaten meat, let alone bacon. Although, you know, everyone knows this. Everyone knows bacon's delicious. So you don't eat it, but I mean, obviously you know that it's delicious, even though you haven't eaten it because it just straight up is, right? Right. Yeah. I'm a lifelong. Okay, never intentionally eat meat, let alone bacon. Normally when I come across a recipe, that calls for bacon, ham, or pork. will just leave it out Obviously, I avoid recipes in which the meat is the bulk or main item. Recently, I have come to realize that this is leaving me with bland recipes that are clearly missing

[24:51] something, most likely strong flavor components from the meat. Navy bean soup has this. I'm assuming a much navy bean soup has, I'm assuming, a much different flavor profile with and without ham.

[25:02] This most recently came to a head when trying to adapt a cheddar ale recipe I found on

[25:07] the Sirius Eats blog. What can I do to overcome this issue? I am an ovo lacto vegetarian. So solutions involving dairy or eggs are fine with me. When I've asked for solutions to this among my friends, who may be foodies, but not necessarily chefs, the general answer is it can't be

[25:23] done, or to add some salt, fat, and liquid smoke. Thanks for your thoughts, and I hope cooking issues continues to entertain and enlighten.

[25:30] Buddha. Okay, there's a great question. And the issue is, is that a lot of chefs who don't have, you know, certain constraints, you know, whether they want to call them constraints or not,

[25:42] but, you know, certain ingredients that they won't use, they tend to ignore the, the, the problem and say things like, oh, I just can't do it or just add something that's, you know, relatively not so

[25:53] good. Like and by the way, there are good liquid smokes. And obviously smoke is one of the components and bacon is something that you're going to be missing if you don't have smoking, but there are better ways than using a low quality liquid smoke.

[26:05] High quality liquid smoke is good stuff, but it's also hard to dose liquid smoke. You add a little too much liquid smoke and all of a sudden there's there's problems. Anyway, back to that. Uh, so, uh, the, the, the question, people, like I say, they, they ignore it. Me, on the other hand, even though I eat bacon, you know, quite often,

[26:20] and I use it a lot as a seasoning meat, I think, you know, bacon and country hammer, 2 of my most favorite seasoning

[26:26] meats where you don't actually have to use that much of it to get a good result. But, uh, saying what can you do uh, to get around it is, to me, is an interesting problem and something to solve.

[26:35] So here are my thoughts. What is it that bacon is adding? So it's adding salt, right? So you need to add salt. It's also adding, um, it's also adding smoke if you're using American bacon, which is why I like American bacon, even in recipes where I shouldn't like American bacon, like Italian recipes, where

[26:53] nastachi's like, you have to use pancetta because it's not authentic. And I really, I don't care if it's authentic because I like the smoke, right? Stas, you hate it, right? I was bacon and carbonara too. Really? Since when? You've been yelling at me for years, for years. You should use pancetta, but usually the ones that they sell in the store is really bad. Yeah, well you heard it here first. Yeah, you heard it here first. It turns out that we're American and we like smoky

[27:18] bacon, even when we should. And in Italy, the pancetta is smoky. It's just not, you can't find it here. Whatever. Okay. Did you ever buy that pancetta, though, like, packaged pancetta at the store? It's so bad. I've never purchased that. So Buddha, we're not answering a question. Here, back to your question. So smokiness is definitely something you need to replace when you're replacing a smoked ham product or a bacon product.

[27:40] Now, liquid smoke isn't the way to go. So, like, if you were doing to do a pizza and you wanted it to have a little bit of that component, right? Then, for instance, I have to always, when I make pizzas, I have to make them vegetarian, completely

[27:52] vegetarian, because my cousin, who comes over and eats at my house, is vegetarian and won't eat, you know, won't eat meat. So I can't put anchovies into my sauce, which is a normal one of my techniques that I put

[28:02] in, and no one's ever complained because it tastes delicious, and it adds a lot of umami and salt. You want to become a meat eater now? No, he won't. Anyway, so smoked mozzarella, right, is a good way to add smoke in that form. Or if you're doing a cheddar ale thing. Use a smoked cheese, but high quality, not a crappy one where they spray fake smoke on it. Um, Secondly, smoked paprika, uh, or pimentone, a fantastic way to

[28:26] add uh, smokiness to um, a dish. So, right? So, you know, those are the, how else do I add smoke? a lot of anything that you add that is smoked naturally can add some of those smoky flavors and probably does it in a way that you're going to like better than just adding straight up liquid smoke, which, like I say, is hard to

[28:45] dose and it can it can go from being too little to all of a sudden being too much. And also, a low quality liquid smoke is very monotonic. It has one very characteristic kind of note to it. part because of the way it's produced and in part because you can't buy a high quality one usually.

[29:00] Anyway, okay. So the other things, I mean, salt is obvious. You can add salty things, but I usually like to add salty foods that aren't just adding pure salt, but to also add the umami products that you get, the meaty

[29:11] umami things that you get out of things like bacon. So how do you get that? Any food that contains amino acids that have been broken down somewhat into smaller, uh, tasty, uh, you know, uh, polypeptides and

[29:27] breakdown, like protein breakdown products, especially if they've been cooked to give them some of that cooked flavor that you would get out of uh, cooking bacon in a pan before you uh, add the soup stuff to it,

[29:37] right? Anything that's going to add those flavors is going to make your product better. So that's when you start pulling out like Parmesan cheese being great. As something that adds umami because it's been aged for a long, long time, and the proteins have broken down, and you get a much richer, more umami feel out of it, right? Tomato products, clearly very high in umami. Ground up cured olives, right? Are excellent. Uh, umami carrying, um, thingamajigs. Also, liquid aminos, right? So fermented sauces. Now, when you think of something to add umami to soups, your mind probably 1st goes directly to soy. The problem is if you add soy to a product, all of a sudden it starts tasting Asian, right? So you can go to different products like coconut liquid aminos or any sort of fermented, broken down product where you're getting some of those meeting notes that you would otherwise get from

[30:31] a from adding straight meat. Oh, and obviously mushrooms. Isn't it good? Am I missing anything? you're good Yeah. I mean, like, and so some combination of all of those things, but even just like making sure that you stock items that allow you to do quick substitutions, like

[30:48] a really high quality smoked Pimentone, like smoked paprika, and, you know,

[30:52] always, always, you know, maybe try the coconut liquid amino, see what you think. Uh, and just, you know, work that way. I think you probably have good luck. Yeah? Okay. Ruben writes in about his home kitchen. Hammer, Jack, Joe, and Dave. I'm an avid fan of the show. Thanks so much for all your contributions in work and for the Chartreuth, which is the drink we do at the bar. It's really just chartreuse, green chartreuse and water chilled, carbonated with a little bit of clarified lime juice in it, like really carbonate. Anyway, Ruben says that's one tasty beverage. I'm sure the Carthusians would agree. You know, we met the we met the president. Nastasia and Piper and I met the president of Chartreuse the other day and he was kind of hilarious. Like, I would like to go visit those monks someday. Apparently, you know, they can't talk to Carthusians. when they're doing their, when they're in the monastery, but if you get them outside the monastery, they, uh, they, they can talk. Loved it. I loved it. I mean, that movie that they did looked incredibly boring, but I'd love to go visit them, right? Anyway, whatever. Okay, question. I'm in the conceptual stages of renovating the kitchen in my apartment. As a home cook and devotee of many contemporary techniques discussed here and elsewhere, I'd like to create a work area that is functional for the current state of the art, yet flexible enough to incorporate future innovations. I have a small space, don't we all, right? Limited budget. I'm familiar with this problem, and one shot at this. Much as I'd like, I don't have the luxury of putting in a completely restaurant style work area that would render my apartment

[32:15] unsalable. This is a huge problem, by the way. So like my kitchen at home is ridiculous. And, you know, it probably would be an impediment to selling it because I have the huge deep fryer, the huge 6 burner range, all this other stuff.

[32:28] Anyway, as wonderful as it is to have new ways to approach cooking, it's frustrating that design thinking and ergonomics

[32:35] has seemingly not kept pace. Hearing your recent offhand thoughts about the outdated state of technologies like home refrigeration makes me further

[32:41] concerned that any specialized approach I take might be limiting in the future. Would you share any tips, must dos, cautionary tales, or overarching philosophies, or nominally related

[32:51] tangents, familiar with us, I guess? You or have faced or anyone you know has faced with similar quandaries. Thanks much, Reuben. Okay. Here's the thing. So, look, at home, you know, it's very hard. You have to choose whether you're either going to have a convenient,

[33:09] like convenient, easy home stuff or do you have in the past, had to choose between easy, convenient home stuff and like hardcore restaurant stuff.

[33:19] And the hardcore restaurant stuff has a lot of problems for homes. For instance, regular restaurant, kitchen stoves throw off a boatload of heat. They're not as well insulated. They typically have standing pilots. It means they're running all the time. So in the summertime, they really heat up your house. In fact, in the summertime, I turn the pilot off in my oven. And I just leave my oven off and I do all my cooking in the salamander and on my, on my crepe maker for most of the time because no one wants to have that oven raging during the, during the summertime.

[33:48] It's crazy, right? So, for some reason, there is a, there's a real disconnect. So, you know, the most that most people at home, and I wouldn't recommend getting that, even if you could resell your house with

[34:00] it. And by the way, the professional stove, like a lot of people get freaked out by it. Like, they don't, especially mine, because it's all P.I.D. controlled and like electronic and you have to plug it in in 5 different places. Mine in particular is a nightmare. But people get weirded out by it. They love the idea of these, you can't see the quote, you know, quote marks that my fingers are making,

[34:22] but professional style home ones. Most of the ones I've used at a professional style home ones are fairly lacking in terms of their output power. However, if you can find like one that's like one of these kind of home professional jobs, it is

[34:34] stainless, that has a fairly high output burner. And I don't have any recommendations because I haven't used one. At home, I use an old garland that, you know, I bought at a restaurant auction for almost nothing. Oh, by the way, another tack you can take with a limited budget is to go to restaurant auctions, if you live in a place where there's a restaurant auction, get the commercial oven that you actually want, install it, and

[34:58] when it comes time to sell your apartment, throw it away and buy a normal oven to put into

[35:05] your into your kitchen. That's what I plan on doing. Like when I sell my apartment. I'm just going to rip out my oven that it's put in like many, many years of good service to me that I bought for

[35:14] $500, including the salamander at an auction, right? I'm just going to hurl it, you know, into the abyss or give it to someone who wants it. This is on my Asian option. Please. It'll be unsafe. I can't actually give it to anyone because so many modifications that I wouldn't want anyone else to have

[35:28] to... I don't know what that means. I don't know, yeah, whatever. anyway, you know, yeah, sure. So I can get so I can get my butt handed to me. Anyway, the point being that you can put that in for very little money, if you're willing to put up with the

[35:43] inconvenience, and then later put in a new unit. But I wouldn't necessarily go there, but you definitely need good high output burners. If you have a lot of electricity and you don't have a lot of ventilation, induction might be the way to go. If your cookware can stand it. Although I have to say, having grown up, I mean, I honestly believe that induction is the wave of the

[36:06] future. Uh, but, you know, I'm an old school, you know, gas flame fiend, and I don't know that the induction,

[36:14] I, I use induction at work exclusively, because we don't have gas burners at work, and I

[36:19] still, I still would feel very sad if I didn't have my gas burners at my house. You know, what about used to us? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, although an electric oven might be the way to go. I mean, it depends on how much modification you're willing to do and how handy you are. I mean, I recommend having a deep fryer only for me. Most people wouldn't do that and that would destroy the resale value of your kitchen, so I wouldn't do that, although I highly recommend owning one.

[36:40] If you, if you want to become a monk of the fry, then you need to have a real

[36:46] fryer. I think that's just the case. Anyway, but you're not going to do that, so it doesn't matter. I would just maximize your counter space. Uh, from, I would get, you know, 6 burners that can do a really good job that also

[36:59] throttle down to a low enough setting that, that, uh, you know, they're still useful. Make sure your oven has a full sheet pan capacity. If you have a full sheet pan capacity oven and 6 burners. And then you give yourself enough space to have

[37:14] a, um, enough space to have all the ancillary equipment like your circulators, uh, or you know, counter space for the vacuum, things like this, then I think you're going to be in good shape.

[37:25] Problem. Also, I would throw away, here's the big thing I think everyone mistake everyone makes. They have all these different kinds of bowls and all these different kinds of

[37:34] gazies in their kitchen, and then they never know how to use them, they never find them,

[37:38] like, I'll give you the quick example. You have to plan to have space in your kitchen to have the stuff out. My old loft. My pasta machine, the roller, you know, the Atlas pasta machine roller, was bolted to my countertop. So, consequently, I made pasta uh, about uh, once a week. once or twice a week, depending. I would make pasta because everything was out and the amount of time it took me to make the pasta was roughly equivalent to the amount of time it would take me to cook dry pasta because I was so fast because I did it all the

[38:08] time. Uh, in my new kitchen, I don't have space. It's not bolted to the counter. I've lived there for 10 years and in 10 years, I've made pasta 10 times because the stuff's not out. You need to have, so like, I think the main problem people make when they're, when they're trying to, if they want to use something all the time at home, you have to make it convenient.

[38:28] And I would have a mixture of open and closed storage so that

[38:32] your open storage is very fast. You don't have to worry about it. I would throw away all your odd sized bowls. I would go to a kitchen supply store and buy inexpensive, stainless steel bowls in 4 sizes. I would buy 6 of each size, large, a small for mise en place stuff, and then a neck size

[38:53] up, next size up, and a large. I would have stacks of those. Do not stack them inside of each other, put them next to each other. Get 2 like 2 or 3 different sizes of stackable, uh, um, like pyrexes or measuring cups in 2 different sides and have those things out so that they work and get like, you know, easy to use things for like uh, bulk storage of flour that's sealed properly so that you don't get vermin problems.

[39:16] And like that's like the biggest, that's like the biggest thing. You know what I mean? Like keeping those stuff in and out and being able to grab those things very quickly. Then make, like I say, make sure you have enough room for your circulator and make sure you have enough power.

[39:28] The problem with a lot of these new techniques is that you're plugging stuff

[39:32] in and then all of a sudden you don't have enough power and you're blowing circuits. So you're running your nuke at the same time that you're running your rice cooker and if you have an electric pressure cooker and you're starting blowing circuits everywhere. So think about trying to run a few extra circuits in and just make sure you have enough burner

[39:47] work. And the last thing I will say is please try to get good ventilation into your

[39:52] kitchen. I have done, I shouldn't say this, but like illegally vented my

[39:56] kitchen, I put a, um, like a, what's the word? you know, dryer ducts? Yeah, dryer duct. So it looks like I have a dryer duct, but I've been venting my whole kitchen out of

[40:07] it, and you have to be really careful and know what you're doing to make sure that you're not causing a fire hazard when you're venting from, you know, like a kitchen, but even if it means just putting a good fan in your window and trying to get

[40:18] this stuff out, please make sure you ventilate properly because when you're doing a finishing of low temperature meats that you've cooked, you generate a lot of smoke and it can be problematic if you don't vent.

[40:27] Does this make any sense? All right. So let's take one more commercial break and come back with cooking issues.

[40:37] dest the whole,000 Minnesota, California free The Americ

[41:13] Whoa. There's a very dark cover of the Hearst Ranch grass fed beef song. Yeah, it's like, wow. You see, whenever she says something like that, she leans back. I hope you folks at home heard that. Yeah, she's like, yeah, you think you think Joel's focusing on the slaughter aspect? Like, imagine, like, playing that, like, I can imagine, like, the helicopters flying in and like, you know, strafing the callus. So, you know, slaughter slaughter via mini gun. Hey, French, crossfed, beef. Crazy. All right. Uh, Tom Flashing writes in, uh, at drink away time, which is, I guess, his Twitter handle. For stabilizing frozen drinks, like margaritas is gum type important, xanthan, Arabic, guar, et cetera. Okay, look. I have not done a lot of testing, trying to stabilize frozen drinks, but here's the problem. So if you're talking about a frozen drink and a blender, right? The issue is stabilizing it is that ice floats. And when you're blending, you're making little ice crystals. So what you have in general is a nice kind of mixture of ice crystals and drink, then slowly the ice crystals float up to the

[42:31] top and it breaks. Now, I guess what you're suggesting is to add enough of a thickener to the

[42:38] product such that those ice crystals remain suspended. Now I guess it's possible to do it. And if it was very slushy, it wouldn't be a problem, you wouldn't want to use, so your choices were Xanthan, Arabic,

[42:53] Guar. Okay. So Arabic is not so much a, uh,

[42:58] going to be good for, um, keeping keeping the ice particle stationary, assuming we're even talking about the same thing. I think we are, right? Arabic is going to be more good at stabilizing air bubbles and foams, right? So for adding like a good, you know, foamy head or for emulsifying oils into something. So it's very good at emulsifying and it's good at kind of

[43:20] adding body, but you have to add a whole boatload of Arabic for you to get like great viscosity out of it because Arabic is one of the very few

[43:30] hydrocolloids that is ping-pong ball shaped instead of spaghetti shaped and ping-pong ball shaped things. Imagine trying to punch through a bunch of ping pong balls a lot easier than trying to punch through a mat of spaghetti or felt, right?

[43:45] So think about it. So, um, gum Arabic, ping pong ball shaped, can, and that's why you can have extremely high concentrations of gum Arabic and still have things be liquid.

[43:56] So I wouldn't necessarily use Arabic. If the application you're talking about is what I think you're talking about. Now, Guar, uh, problem with Guar, uh, aside from the fact that nine-tenths of Guar, uh, is not good. It tastes beanie because it hasn't been refined enough, but you can get really good refined

[44:15] guar called flavor free guar. A couple people make it, but the one I use is from TIC gums, called flavor free guar. Plus also, you know, Guar very expensive now due to fracking, fracking, fracking. We talked about that a 1000000 times, right? Okay, so I don't need to talk about it again. Although it makes me angry. Anyway, not the fracking of the gore. And, I mean, maybe the fracking makes me angry. I don't know enough about it. Anyway, that's not what I'm talking about. Problem with Guar is that Guar is literally just a thickening agent. So it'll slow down how fast ice crystals are moving through the liquid, but it's not going to stop them,

[44:44] right? Because guar solutions, have no what's called yield point. They flow slowly, but they always flow, right? So, I mean, just imagine this. They just they always, it's just a matter of how fast they flow. Xanthan, on the other hand, which is the 1st one that you mentioned, Xanthan

[45:05] gum, has what's called a yield point, which means that even in fairly low concentrations,

[45:12] in less a product is moving, the Xanthan acts like a gel. There's no movement at all. It's stationary. And then once you apply any force, it undergoes what's called sheer thinning, and it turns to a liquid very, very quickly, right? Very quickly. And this is a, this is like a well-known property of Xanthan, and it's why you can use Xanthan in combinations with other

[45:37] things to do things like stop pepper and other

[45:42] salad part, you know, salad dressing particles from floating to the top. You can keep them suspended. You know, fluid gels are also very good at this. So you can use, so orbits, the old orbits, uh, drink that had those little balls floating in

[45:54] them was a fluid gel that was made out of geland gum that was

[45:58] blended. And then with Xanthan added, right? Also, if you thicken somewhat with something like guar, you can add less xanthan. Here are the problems, right? over Xanthan products have a snotty, slimy texture to them. So you can add some, but you can't add too much. If you add like a quarter percent, if that's enough to suspend it, then you're okay, but if you have to add much more than a quarter a percent of Xanthan, uh, you want to want to start adding other things to help, uh, you know, help hold with this

[46:26] antan, or you get these kind of snotty, slimy textures. The other thing is, is that the ability of a fluid gel or a

[46:33] hydrocolloid like xanthane, with a yield point to suspend particles like ice, is very dependent on the density difference between the products you're suspending and the size of the

[46:43] particles. So the bigger the density difference, the harder it is to suspend. And the larger the particle with a given density difference, the harder it is to suspend. Ice is quite a bit less dense than the drink that it's in, quite a bit less. And so it can be fairly hard to keep suspended. But that said, you could try some Xanthan and maybe anyone else out there has tried this. They can give it a shot. The only problem is, is if the drink sits around for a long time, and you've suspended it. Once it melts, it'll have that weird Xanthan look to it, right? So if someone's going to pound it right away, I guess it's not a big problem. But anyway, I could think more about it, but those are just my current thoughts. Yeah? Good. Yeah, yeah, stars today. I need her there. She like, she's like, Dave, shut up about this. Shut up. Okay, Morton Matson writes in again. which we appreciate. Dear Dave, thanks once again for your input on my quail egg conundrum, because we were talking about the ISI with the quail egg, and I think that's great. I want, you know, someone to, like if I, whatever. I think it's a good idea. I'm very happy I'm very happy with that. Anyway, I have a comment and a question for you. Firstly, I've been thinking about the question you had in last week about the use of nanoparticles in food. And so just to recap, you know, there's these particles, nanoparticles, and particle size is not regulated by the FDA, and therefore, you know, something that could be safe in normal

[48:03] size might possibly be rendered unsafe by turning it into tiny, tiny, tiny particles.

[48:09] So, um, right? So that is what we're talking about. The 1st thing that popped into my head was the appearance of nanoparticle solutions. A solution of

[48:18] even-sized nanoparticles will appear as a clear colored liquid. The color of liquid is determined directly by the size of the nanoparticles.

[48:26] The reason a clear, by the way, clear colored, you know, a lot of people, when

[48:30] they, when they think about clear, they, they, the right thing to think about is clear versus cloudy, and then color versus, uh, you know, non-colored, right? So a cloudy, colorless solution is white and a, you know, a clear colored solution, it has a color to it. Now, a lot of people have this issue when they when we talk about clarification. They expect clarification to take the color out. Cla clarification doesn't take the color out. Clarification, all it does is take out the cloudiness. Um, Anyway, okay. So the color of the liquid is determined directly by the size of the nanoparticles.

[49:05] The reason that the solution does not appear opaque as milk is that the scattering regime changes when the particle size gets comparable with the wavelength of visible light.

[49:13] And by the way, emulsions are cloudy because, um, is me talking now. Emulsions are cloudy because the particles scatter light. Once you have what's called a microemulsion and the actual thing, you know, the emulsified product in it,

[49:26] all of a sudden the particles get smaller than the wavelength of light, then the emulsion goes clear.

[49:30] Anyway, that's random. In this regime, the behavior is determined by me scattering. I think it's pronounced me, although I don't know. I think so. Anyway, one application of this could be coloring drinks as almost any desired color could be achieved. Secondly, one could imagine changing the solution, such that nanoparticles flocculate together and change the appearance of the solution completely. Could we could have used this kind of concept when we were dealing with that drink you had to make in Florida that time. Remember stuff? Yeah, yeah. Colonial gold solutions are one candidate for this purpose. I've seen colloidial gold solutions approved for medical applications, so I would imagine they could be consumed. Generally on the issue of safety, I would agree with you that it is an issue that is riddled with bias thinking. It is, of course, also a very complicated issue, since the properties of the materials change when the particles become nanosized. This is, of course, also why we generally find them so interesting. I felt that one cannot make any general statements on the safety of nanoparticles. Rather, one should consider each one individually. And before I go on to the question, that's the comment, before I go on to the question, let me just

[50:29] say, I went and looked on the internet at the pictures of different

[50:33] sized gold nanoparticle solutions. And you know what really struck me is that the color difference based on the size of it very, very closely looks like the exact color shift that happens to

[50:46] anthosine and pigments when the pH has changed. So they go from red to, well, red to violet, to blue to, to colorless. So, you know, and I never actually thought about it before. what the heck is going on, when you're changing the pH with anthoscience. I mean, it's got to be something where you're changing the confirmation or something of the

[51:09] anthocyanin, and therefore, you know, changing its reaction to the way it scatters light. I never really thought about it. It's interesting that the gold, the gold solutions look almost exactly like anthosign and solutions at different pages. I mean, it's interesting to me, probably to no one else. Definitely not the nostalgia. Nostalgia's like, please, can I buy some shoes on Zapos? Please, please. you got the wrong size the other day, so. What? Are you for real? You and Piper ordering shoes for price? I think we single-handedly support Zappos. I've never ordered shoes on Zappos. You've never ordered shoes on Zapos. What shoe site do you shop on? Zero. I go to payless shoe source. You go to Payless, yes. on Delancey. on Delancey. They have a website. No, I go there. Whatever, whatever. She's not wearing pail shoes right now. Yes, I am. These are payless. whatever. That damn, whatever. I not going to get it. Okay, so the actual question deals with acrylamide. Within the last couple of days here in Denmark, all the news have been dominated by scares of

[52:05] acrylomide and food. The reason for this is the technical University of Denmark has published a new study where they connected acrylamide to cancer. I couldn't get that study. Did you get emailed that study, Nostache? couldn't get the study. Maybe it's only in Danish. I was looking for it. I couldn't find it. Anyway, the technical University of Denmark has published a new study where they have connected acrylamide to cancer, presumably connected again because it's been connected a bunch of times and then debunked and then connected and then debunked.

[52:28] This, of course, is nothing new in general, but their study includes statistics for humans as well as rats and mice. In general, for these studies, I've always felt is not fair to compare studies made on animals to humans. Humans are unique in having cooking eaten foods for 1000s of years, and therefore having been exposed to these products of cooking. I would like it if you could say a few wise words. I don't know about that. Few wise words about acrylamide. The problem here in Denmark is that the scare has reached a level where politicians are talking about making regulations towards

[52:53] acrylamide. Since this means not being able to buy bread with a crust or even crunchy french fries, I'm naturally opposed to the idea. It seems that scientists making the studies have been victims of oversimplifications in the media, but still their results remain. I've seen a couple of papers where enzymes, specifically asparaganase, have been used to reduce acrylamide and potato chips. Does one need to worry about acrylamide, or is this another minor extra risk that we should be willing to take for the sake of good food? And also, can we find reasonable means of reducing acrylami without compromising the food we all love, best wishes, Morton

[53:24] Matts, an interesting question. So, for those of you that are fresh to the acrylamide problem, here it is. In 2002, Swedish scientists found that what was known is known or has been known as both a human,

[53:40] like reproductive harm, like mutagen, right? And also possible carcinogen, acrylamide, at least it was found to cause cancer,

[53:49] haven't found to cause cancer in laboratory animals with very high dosages, by the

[53:53] way. Turns out that it's occurring in foods, and it's not an additive. It just happens when products get cooked at high temperatures, right? And so, uh, and you know, anything that is browned or and contains starch, uh, has been found to

[54:10] have uh, acrylamide in it, just naturally occurring. And so when this 1st came out in 2002, it was a big hoopla of, you know, what was going to go on. And then, of course, there was people, oh my god, they're adding this stuff to food. No, there's not adding, it's not new. It's not some sort of new environmental problem. It's always been there. Acrylamide has always been in our food supply. When I say always, at least since we've been cooking things. Anytime we've cooked things, uh, especially starchy things and we've cooked them to the point where they get brown and delicious, uh, acrylamai was formed. I haven't read the article you were talking about that was talking about asparagus, but according to the FDA, and I haven't

[54:45] read, you know, all the hardcore studies. FDA site says acrylamized form from sugars and amino and an amino

[54:51] acid, asparagine during certain types of high temperature cooking, such as frying, roasting, and baking. So there might be some way to reduce it there. But the, you know, it becomes a really sticky thing because now all of a sudden people are saying, well,

[55:05] you, you know, you have this product, acrylamide, and it's in

[55:09] all, all of the food that we eat, right? Basically, anything that's cooked, it's brown. I mean, if you're a raw foodist, you're safe, safe, safe. Well, from that. I mean, your bowels may be a different problem. But, like, you know, you're safe from acrylla mine. So, you know, and even if you don't eat bread or start coffee, right? Because it's roasted, cocoa, because it's roasted, anything that's roasted with its high temperature. So what are you going to do? And we have a thing in California. Well, I mean, I don't live in California, Styles has a thing in California called Prop 65. You familiar with that? No, no, no. You know the front? like Prop 65. So in California, if you have a, if you're on a list of, if you, if you have any product that you're selling that contains a known carcinogen, you have to write on

[55:54] it, uh, that this product contains uh, something known to the state of California to cause cancer, right? And you're obliged to warn that it's in there. So there's a huge lawsuits because McDonald's makes like a zillion dollars selling

[56:09] french fries every year. And so a bunch of lawyers went and filed lawsuits in California saying that they had to warn their customers that the

[56:17] French fries might cause cancer because of acrylamide, because it contains acrylamide. And that was a big to do. And, you know, I mean, it's foolishness. Obviously it's foolishness. You know what I mean? you know, a friend of mine was involved with it and I told him, I was like, this is foolishness because it's always been there. been there. I actually went on the internet to look it up and there was a Starbucks that had the warning sign about acrylamite and coffee. I don't know whether that's actually deregur in California, whether someone just put it up as a joke. But anyway, people are taking that seriously. However, uh, you know, and here's the other problem with it. The numbers are all over the map. So, I, you know, if FDA has a very interesting site, because they don't really know what's going on with

[56:53] Acrylic Mite. They're still trying to figure out what the heck the deal is. I tell you, here's what they say. In 2013, the FDA, this is straight off their website, FDA.gov. In 2013, FDA intends to issue guidance for industry concerning

[57:05] acrylamide and food. Since 2002, the FDA has initiated a broad range of activities related to

[57:10] acrylamide. FDA's accomplishments include the following, developing an action plan outlining the FDA's goals and planned activities, convening meetings, developing methods for measuring acrylamide, analyzing the acrylamide

[57:22] results, which they did. They analyzed 2600 samples of food and krylamide, including like they'll go to like 8 different Popeyes. I think it was more like three, but like 3 different Popeyes, like 5 different RBs, like 2 different Burger Kings, and they'll measure the French fries, and all of them. And here's what sucks, right? So like different establishments or even the same establishment on different days or like one lace product and then a different lace product has vastly different, vastly different acrylamide levels.

[57:50] So it's not even something that's like standard that they can tell. They don't really even know, I mean, you know, they're working on ways to get rid of it. But here's, here's, I haven't read. can't read the Denmark thing because I can't I can't get to it. I couldn't find it. But there is a study out that I will read the beginning of for

[58:08] you that came out last year. Okay? It's called... review of the epidemia. Let me get it for you so I can get it for you exactly right. The review of the, uh, epidemiologic studies of dietary acrylamide intake and the risk of cancer. And I will read to you by Lauren Lipworth. I'll read to you the abstract. Conjectured associations between dietary, acrylamide, intake, and cancer have been evaluated in more than 15 epidemiologic studies, examining almost every major cancer site.

[58:40] We have critically reviewed the epidemiologic studies of estimated dietary

[58:44] acrylamide exposure and cancer. As substantially greater acrylamide exposure occurs through tobacco smoke than dietary exposure. We present the results separately for never smokers or adjusted statistically for smoking

[58:54] status where possible. After an extensive examination of the published literature, we found no consistent or credible evidence that dietary acrylamide increases the risk of any type of cancer in

[59:05] humans either overall or among non-smokers. In particular, this is the important part. The collective evidence suggests that a high level of dietary acrylamide is not a risk faster for breast endometrial or ovarian cancers, which have generated

[59:18] particular interest because of a conjectured hormonal mechanism for acrylamide.

[59:23] Moreover, the absence of a positive association between smoking and ovarian and endometrial

[59:28] cancer cancers suggests that any association of these cancers with a much lower, more sporadic dietary acrylamide intake is unlikely. In conclusion, epidemologic studies of dietary acrylamide have, uh, intake have failed to demonstrate an increased risk of cancer, and

[59:43] here's my favorite part. In fact, the sporadically and slightly increased and decreased risk of ratios reported in more than

[59:49] 2 dozen papers, strongly suggest the pattern one would expect to find for a true null association over the course of a series of trials.

[59:57] There. Therefore, a continued epidemiologic investigation of acrylic mining cancer risk appears to be a misguided research primarity, priority. In a reaction to that, uh, and not, uh, not,

[1:00:12] unsurprisingly, it was called Reaction on the Acrylonite and Cancer Review by Lipworth and Colleagues, by uh, Janicky, uh, Huggeworst out of, um, uh, where is this from? They're from the Netherlands. And they basically they disagree with some of the things, but their conclusion is some weak sauce. There can be actual criticism in this article that is, we believe that the author's

[1:00:32] statement that continued epidemiologic research into the possible link between dietary

[1:00:36] acrylomide exposure and cancer appears to be a misguided priority is itself misguided and based on flawed

[1:00:41] reasoning. We should be working towards better classification of dietary acrylamide exposure and establishing the possible mode of action rather than giving up on it entirely. So they're like, well, you know, we should give up, just not entirely, you know? That's like a weak way to end your paper, right? Week, week. We give up, which is not entirely. I can't find the Denmark study. Uh, but, I mean, to say this. If I have a slightly increased cancer rate, and this is a horrible thing to say, flippily, but

[1:01:08] like if there is a slight, slight uptick, and it means that I can't ever have delicious

[1:01:13] French fries again, to hell with it. I having the french fries, cooking issues. Hey Dave. Yeah. We've got one more write in. Somebody wants to suggest inflammo. Inflammo. Inflammo. Oh, wait, and Jack, I know we're late. We have a contest. We do. We have one final contest. So the just food conference, and if you don't know who just food is, they're a nonprofit organization that connects communities with local farms, really cool people.

[1:01:35] We love them. We'll be doing a presentation on how to make your own podcast. The conference is this weekend, and we're giving away 2 tickets to the listener who can tell me the original theme song for cooking issues.

[1:01:46] So tweet us, email us info at heritageradionetwork.org, and hopefully

[1:01:52] you win. What are they going to get again? Two tickets to the Just Food Conference, which is this weekend. Okay, so hurry up. Hurry up. Cooking issues.

[1:02:12] Thanks for listening to this program on HeritageRadioNetwork.org. You can find all of our archived programs on our website or as podcasts in the iTunes store by searching Heritage Radio Network. You can like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter at Heritage underscore radio. You can email us questions at any time at info at heritageradionetwork.org. HeritageRadio Network as a nonprofit organization. To donate and become a member, visit our website today. Thanks for listening.