[0:00] Today's program has been brought to you by S. Wallace Edwards and Sons, 3rd generation cure masters producing the country's best dry cured and aged hams, bacon, and sausage. For more information, visit Surreyfarms.com. You are listening to Heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick, Brooklyn. If you like this program, visit heritageradionetwork.org for 1000s more.

[0:29] Cooking issues!

[0:57] Calling your questions, too! Cooking issues! Hello and welcome to cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of good news. coming to you live. What? Every Tuesday. 2nd time I've done that to you. Sorry. No problem. From Aberta's Pizzeria in Bushwick, Brooklyn. We are not joined with Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. She is calling. Oh, but we are. Well, no, but not live, not in the studio. She is called in too. 718-497218. That's 7184972128 and you can too with all of your cooking related questions. So, Nastasia and Jack and Joe are here in the engineering booth, as always, hey, hey, gentlemen. Hello. So Nastasia has lost all credibility with the cooking issues in the Heritage Radio team because we've heard her talk a big game about how much she hates

[1:46] this springtime weather. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, hates the springtime weather. Hate springtime people, hates people when they like the springtime weather, and where are you right now, Nastasia? I'm at the beach, but I'm so happy that I'm not

[2:02] in New York because I don't have to see everybody in their flip-flops and the hipsters on their bikes and all that stuff. You're at the beach seeing all that. What the hell's the difference? No, there's no hipsters here. 0 hipsters. So, uh, are you, so she is in uh, Rhode Island, and are you familiar with the actual full name of Rhode Island, Nastasia? No? Well, it is the... Well, it's the smallest state in our union. However, it has the longest official name. It is the state of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations. were you aware of that? Whoa, no, I wasn't. Yeah, it's like, it wasn't enough just to be the smallest. They also had to like tag the biggest name. And then they shafted the shafted Delaware. Almost, almost the smallest, but we got no sales tax. I think that's kind of what Delaware said, right? Because they couldn't change their name to like Delaware of Delaware and the Delaware, Delaware plantation, because that would just be copying, right? Right. Yes. So, uh, is it, uh, I assume it's nice over there, although you know, I would hate it. Yeah, you would hate it. I'm not on it. I'm away from the sand. Yes. For those out there, I'm big. I like the idea of a beach. I love the beach in the wintertime, but the sun is my mortal enemy. anyway. Okay, we got some questions in from Ryan Santos regarding Centrifuge. Hey, Dave and Nastasia. A customer who recently retired from medical equipment sales gifted us with an unused

[3:23] centerfuge she had in his storage. It's small and runs fine, but is missing the containers for the inside. Though some research, uh, through some research, the maximum uh, this machine can take is 4 by 50 milliliter conical tubes. And as you're probably aware, those 4 small tubes and adapter are not cheap. 4 to $500 in total. Obviously, with the quantity limit, we won't be able to use, you know, the amount they can spin in at one time. We won't be able to use it for any real practical production use because 4 times 50 milliliters, as you guys can do in your head, maybe is 200

[3:54] mils, which is a small amount. Um, is there any small specialty use that would warrant spending this kind of cash at that

[4:01] quantity? Will it hardly yield anything, even just for fun personal use? Well, $4 to $500 is a lot to spend on the tubes for a 200 mil machine. Now, if I didn't get a chance. It's a thermoscientific IEC centrist CL2. I didn't get a chance to look at the specific specs on that machine. Uh, but let's just say for the sake of uh, for the sake of argument that it can do, you know, 3 to 4000 G's, uh, and it has, uh, it doesn't have the, like an R anywhere in it. Usually refrigerator center if you just have like a letter R in it somewhere. So it doesn't have a fridge. So you're going to be spending $500 to be doing 200 mils. Now, 50 mil tube is a lot for 250 bucks or 200 bucks or whatever, you can go on Amazon.com and buy one that does that does 100 mils at a time, half that for like half the price. But those small tubes that it uses, the small one. What the one that we use, Stas? What the name of it again? You have one too. Do you remember? Oh, yeah. I'll have to look it up like champion something, right? It's like champions. I'll look it up. Um, you know, that one's only a couple 100 bucks, uh, and it's new and you can almost like get rid of it when it's done. 200 mils is not going to be enough for large production runs. I would see if you can get it cheaper. If you actually have the metal tubes and you're just looking for the bottles, then, you know, you can get away with cheaper

[5:21] not using it all. But I personally would be hesitant to invest $500 in something that can do 200 mils if you have the space to get a larger size one because, you know, for

[5:32] a $1000, you can get a really good condition, uh, 3 liter unit, you know, like a 1000 to $1,200. So, you know, I would be hesitant. But on the other hand, if all you have is $500 and you want to get into centrifuges, it's the kind of thing where, you know, if you don't have a centrifuge yet and you want to take the plunge, then, you know, anything you can do to get you into the

[5:52] centrifuge business is going to, uh, eventually be good for you because I've never had someone who's gotten a center. There's a couple things like that. It's like the Vita Prep. It's like an immersion circulator. No one's ever like, damn, I didn't use that. That sucked. You know what I mean? It doesn't happen. There are other pieces of equipment where I can see a little buyer's remorse when you're done with it. But if you're buying a centrifuge for commercial use in a restaurant or

[6:16] in a bar, it will pay for itself. So long as you use it right and, you know, use it for menu items where it's going to save you big money on yield on your expensive items, it's going to make money back.

[6:30] So, if it takes $400 to get you into the centrifuge thing so that you can then eventually go buy your 3 liter, then I think in the end you win.

[6:40] What do you think, does? Yeah, anything that's good. And it is called the champion E 33 benchtop Centerfuge on Amazon. We got to get we got to get Buju Banton to rep that

[6:50] singing like a champion, walk like a champion for that centrifuge. You think we can put those 2 guys together? They're down in Georgia or Florida somewhere. And I think when he's in the U.S. He's down there. Well, I'm saying, I think that's where he got arrested down there. So maybe they can arrange something. Does anyone know his Buchu Banton's still in jail? Were those cocaine charges trumped up? Does anyone know? Does anyone even know who I'm talking about? I'm gonna Google it. All right, there we go. Okay, so there you have it. Now, uh, oh, by the way, for those of you out there, uh, we decided for the torch to go with the name,

[7:21] Seers all, because, uh, Nastasia, does it sear some things? No. Most things? No. So if you have anything, choose anything. If you have that, will it steer that? Yes. So it's pretty much a Sears all. Yes. Seers all. Yeah, all right. Yeah, not seer some. That would be a terrible name. Sears Sum would be like the worst name in the world, but Sears All, that's a strong name. However, uh, Nastasia still has a soft spot for, uh, excuse me, for uh, all searing eyes. So she says that under her breath all the time. She just walks around mumbling it. She, you know, in, uh, in, you know, 30 years, she's going to be that she's going to be that lady wandering around the little east side, mumbling, or Hell's Kitchen, mumbling. Oh, Siri, hello, Siri. That going to be her. And I still refer to it as the Sally Sears all because I like the word Sally, but, you know, there you have it. So that's the name. Uh, and uh, we shot some videos. So look for some video up on the blog soon, showing techniques on

[8:20] how to use it and kind of what it's good for. Now, Ken Ingber, longtime listener, supporter of MoFed. I don't know if he's a supporter of the radio network or not. I don't know But a supporter of the Museum of Food and Drink, and a long time listener, writes in and is excited about the sears all, but has these questions. One, what does this product do that an inexpensive widely available and

[8:42] time tested electric pay stripper will not do? If a lower temperature is key, is it possible that a home cook might be better off with

[8:50] the lower temp on a paint gun? I have used the paint gun. And, um, I think it's, it's a, there's a couple things I don't like about it. One, they're actually not cheap. Like paint stripping guns are like, you know, you'd think that they're like 20

[9:05] bucks. They're not. They're like 80 bucks or more. And so they're actually, uh, we mean, they're more than what we hope to sell this unit for. We don't know what we're going to sell it for because a lot depends on how much it costs for insurance and shipping and boxing and all that other

[9:20] stuff. But we're hoping to have it be price competitive with those guns. Secondly, those suckers require a cord, which I detest having a cord running around. They don't heat up as quickly as you'd like. And it's kind of hard to judge. I've used them before. They just don't do the same thing. It's just not the same thing. They're just not the same. Having used those things. Now, I like those hot air guns for, for other things for heat shrink tubing, man, those things cannot be beat. I used to have one. Someone stole it. Have you ever notice that happens with me? I lend something to people, stars, and then they just steal it from me. Equipment, techniques. Okay, okay. So the ladder makes me the most angry. I'm just kidding. I'm just messing around with you. That's not you're not kidding. Well, uh, whole ingest, half in earnest there. Anyway, okay. Uh, two. This is, I can't ask you more questions. Would I get the same effect if I held an $8 replacement camping light gas mantle with tongs in front of a torch? I mean, leave aside the bonus thorium on my chicken skin. Well, for those of you that don't know, what they do is they take a, I think it's, I don't know what the fiber is, but it's a fiber, it's a fiber that they weave into cloth. This is how they make those really bright gas lanterns for camping. They take a cloth, they put some like a very high temper factory fiber in it and they dope it with thorium, which

[10:38] is, you know, a substance. And then when they when they light fire to it, the fabric burns away and the mantle becomes exceedingly fragile. And then the whole sucker incandesces like a weasel when you light it on fire. And that's how those mantle based gas lamps work. Now, trick with that is, besides the awesome thorium, as you point out, mantle's quite small and exceedingly fragile. And also, like, you know, they're not, yeah, just, excuse me, wouldn't work the same way. The I bike today, which is why you hear the incredible hacking and coughing every once in a while. I inhale some more of that cement. You know that cement play stars? It's like you make it all the way here and you're fine, and then like a block from Roberta's, you inhale like a lung full of cement dust, and then you're hacking and wheezing for the rest of the day. Anyway, so I don't think it would work for that reason. Secondly, when you have tongs and you're shooting at something, you know, you tend to lose a lot of heat to backspray, which is why we have the cone. The real trick of the whole device here is an incredibly low thermal

[11:34] mass, such that the sucker heats up very, very quickly, but doing that with a material that maintains its structural integrity and

[11:40] strength at the elevated temperatures that we're talking about. And they're quite hot. The inner screen, the outer screen probably only gets up to like, oh, I don't know,

[11:49] like 1300 Fahrenheit or something like that. But the inner screen probably gets up closer to like 1700 Fahrenheit or something

[11:56] like in that range. So it's right at the upper level of even what the metals we're using can do. in fact, we're still playing with the alloys there. So those mantle is extremely fragile. This thing needs to be more kind of bullet for kitchen use. Yes, Daz? Yep. Yep. Number three. Are you doing anything about stability? Hardware store propane canister is comfortable to hold and has a large capacity, but is inherently unstable. Don't I know it, which is why we have a patent pending on a clamp that not only holds

[12:24] the propane canister when you're using the sears all, but also holds it when you're using a regular torch, which I think is inherently dangerous in any

[12:33] effect in any way. Anyway, okay. Hardware store propane canister is comfortable with large capacity, but inherently unstable, with a small base and a high center of gravity. The heat of the usual burns a matic nozzle is dangerous, but I suspect that the ignition level temperature dissipates pretty quickly.

[12:48] Adding this salamander, the sears all to the top makes a total package tippier and perhaps retains a dangerous temperature level. That is a serious risk in a busy commercial kitchen and a nightmare for consumer use. Well, let's finish the whole thing and then I'll go into it. This is like one of the main things that we're addressing. So, I mean, it's good that someone asked and I can talk about here. Okay. So as to the last point on the danger, I'm of 2 minds when it comes to Dave's

[13:09] tinkering, the HeathKit customer and me, by the way, for those of you that, you know, I don't know, if we have young listeners out there, HeathKit was a company back in the day that became well known after World War 2 for supplying parts, you could build things like, or kits, you could buy things like

[13:24] oscilloscopes. when I was a kid, they sold a robot, they have like, you know, anyway, so like amateur electronics, like what, you know, what all the Arduino kids are doing now, like used to be a

[13:32] Heath kit, but you know, anyway, whatever. Okay, uh, the Heathkick customer me is amused by what Dave, uh, by Dave's

[13:38] hacking of, say, an electric pressure cooker, uh, what could go wrong, uh, in joking friends. But the lawyer in me is more than a little apprehensive, especially when you post instructions on the back to that's back on the pressure cooker. Although, to be fair to me, I said, do not do it. Remember that, Stas? Yeah, that was the 1st sentence you wrote in that story. I was like, do not do this. like, you know, you know, do not do this. By the way, that pressure cooker still runs well. I have not had a problem with it. So, again, don't modify your pressure cooker to get to the actual 15 PSI that God wants it to be

[14:10] at. Uh, even though I highly recommend only cooking with 15 PSI pressure cookers and it's theoretically possible to take the Cuisinart electric pressure cooker and make it do 15

[14:19] PSI. I have to urge you to not actually modify it according to the instructions I post on the blog, right, Stas? Right. Right. Hey, Dave. Yes. I have 2 things. So Bougie Bantan is in jail until 2000 or yeah, 2019 and also you have a caller. Oh, all right. Well, let me just finish this question and then I'll take the caller and then I'll answer the question. Okay, great. Poor Buju. What was it? it cocaine? Yeah, it was cocaine. In Florida? believe so. All right. Uh, okay. Okay. The lawyer of me is more than a little apprehensive, especially when he posts instructions. This series will probably be considered a consumer product and a manufacturing seller assumes some serious liability, or at least a likelihood of consumer injury lawsuits win or lose. Good luck, and I expect to invest, but just in time, as Bams, Nomiku immersion circulator seems to have overcome some design

[15:10] and manufacturing issues and is on the verge of production now, delayed from last December. As I write verge, listen carefully, and you will hear the derisive laughter I get from my wife and friends. Wow, is that a slapdown on WeePop? That is a slapdown. On the we pop? Hey, you know, I'm a big fan of the we pop. We pops chilling in, what is he, in Thailand now? Anyway, so I'll get back. answer that question on safety and the seers all after this caller collar, you're on the air. Yeah, Dave, uh, 2 or 300 unrelated questions here. Cool. First one on pickling. The reference, everything I read about it. I got to change room too. not going to be able to hear me over the kid. Everything I read on pickling says that if you hit 4.9 on the PH, that that's sort of an intrinsically safe pickle. Okay, you mean regardless of salt content or anything? Well, that's, or at least, you can, if you get the 4.9, you can go with a reasonable salt content. Right, okay. I mean, clearly, if you put enough salt in it, anything. Oh yeah. Um, But, uh, does anybody make a test strip for that? Oh, for that explicit number? Yes. Jeez, you know, that's a, that's a good question. You'd think that they would. Uh, I mean, but the thing is with the test strips. PH meters are really not that, uh, they're not that expensive anymore. I think you can get one now. Like, I think, you know, you know, are you familiar with X-Tech? Uh, well, I mean, I'm very familiar with Fluke X-Tec is sort of the lower line company. I mean, so like, is there a, You're telling me that, um,

[16:47] Flukes PH meter or somebody's like that is no longer the price of a decent used car? No, well, no, fluke is. I mean, like, that's the thing. So you're going to pay for, you're going to pay for quality. You know what I mean? So if you're going to use it, if you were going to use something, like, now, I know more about multimeters than I know about, uh, uh, pH, uh, test, you know, pH testers, right? But if I'm if I'm an engineer and I'm going to go out in the job site and I know that thing's going to get dropped and my buddy who doesn't know how to do anything from a hot rock is going to take it and

[17:16] it's going to stick the probes on something weird, I'm going to go with the fluke, right? Now, if I'm just at home, floosies don't know what we're talking about. flke is a well-known and trusted brand of test equipment. Uh, uh, you know, and they have a characteristic look and you know a fluke when you look at it across the room, right? Okay, so we're on the same page. Now, I used to be the kind of guy that would only

[17:39] ever only ever buy quality equipment because I knew that if I didn't buy quality

[17:45] equipment. Uh, it was going to come back to bite me somehow. At some point, I would assume that I own something that worked and I would need it right then and it wouldn't work and I'd be let down and it would be worse than having nothing at all.

[17:56] That's just my general experience. However, as I age, uh, I realize that sometimes it's okay. If you have one application, you know it'll work for it and you know you can be ginger with it. You're not going to take it out on a job site and it gets relatively good reviews, then you can go ahead and get the cheaper one.

[18:12] And so with something like a pH meter, I think you could probably get away with something from XTech at like less than less than half of what you would pay for, you

[18:21] know, the brand you trust. I mean, I don't know whether you can believe. I don't know whether you can go that same route or not or like whether it's not in you to buy a piece of equipment that you don't trust. At any rate, X-Tech is generally adequate for the once a month I'm going to do this. Yeah, right. And I think, you know, I've owned a couple of their products and I'm trying to remember if I ever had a problem with one or whether I've ever heard that they were unresponsive if the stuff break.

[18:48] The problem with pH meters in general, if you've never had one is that you need to keep

[18:52] the, what goes wrong with them is that the, especially the inexpensive ones you use. I don't have the glass tip ones, which is, you know, that kind of, like a lot of people have. I have the ones with the little, like the metal thing, and it's, and shield at the bottom. It actually does a couple different things. It also do TDS. and, you know, a couple other measurements on it. You have to keep the cap wet at all times. If the if the probe dries out, the probe shot. And then you have to buy another replacement tip for it. So that's the one caveat. You need to buy the probe and you need to buy the buffer solutions. And if you calibrate it right. Uh, you know, it's it's a good investment and you just got to make sure that you, there's a little sponge inside the cap and you got to make sure that sponge stays wet so that the probe doesn't dry out and

[19:32] get and get ruined. And, you know, I don't know of any reasonably priced one where that's not the case, but I've had one for several

[19:38] years and it's still working for me. So, you know, take, again, I wouldn't do it if I was doing it professionally, but it served me okay. All right. And then the the specific thing, let me do this question. I'm, I make this Vietnamese hot sauce, basically, it's 13rd fish sauce, 13rd lime juice, 13rd sugar, and then I just, uh, mandolin, some form of hot pepper in

[20:03] there until there's no more room left. And if you leave it in the fridge for a week or two, it seems to pickle beautifully. Other than buying a pH meter. Is there any way to, like, be relatively sure that's not going to kill somebody? Um, yeah, so it's like one, 13rd lime, you said, and

[20:21] one third? 13rd lime, 13rd sugar, 13rd fish sauce. The fish sauce is 1500 milligrams of sodium per tablespoon. Yeah, well, you know that, you know the fish sauce isn't going to go anywhere. Uh, lime juice is not going to support too much growth. Sugar is gonna be reducing the water activity. So the real question is, is, what's the weight ratio of the product to the um, to the pickle? Now, you know, uh, I don't know whether the salt level there is sufficient to inhibit anything but

[20:55] lactic. Does it get a lactic taste after a while? Are you getting some actual fermentation? Yes, and like you can you can see the peppers. You know, the peppers go from bright green. It's like they absorb the fish sauce and just get a very subtle, different flavor to them. Right, but then it does, it does actually ferment out and you get lactic acid bacteria in there. I think so. And you're probably fine. I mean, like, you're just jumpstart. You know, by lowering the pH initially, you're then selecting for more for lactic acid bacteria to grow rather than other nasty stuff.

[21:25] So, you know, I think you're, I mean, look again, like, I would get the pH meter and test it, but I wouldn't feel too nervous about it.

[21:32] I'm not going to come out and say that's a safe thing because I haven't run the numbers or

[21:36] looked at the system or gone and checked any data on the on the web. But, uh, I mean, I feel I would feel comfortable serving to my family is put that way. Okay, so fair enough. Uh, separate, completely separate question. You were talking the other day about pizza steel? Oh yeah, yeah. No, I've never used one. Now, Chris Young was talking to me about it and they have someone in Massachusetts making it. I'm really interested in buying one, but if I do, I'd like to use it for a few things besides

[22:05] pizza. Sure. Is it thick enough not to warp if it's heated unevenly or is it, um,

[22:12] you want to use it on the range? But like, I can get my grill up to ridiculous temperatures. Right. If I turn the rotisserie burner on too. So the matisserie burners radiating down from above at the same time, the grill is going full up from below and, I mean, it gets hot in there, like 700 and something degrees hot. Right, right. If I can, um, but I'm, I'm worried if I do, I'm afraid to do it to a ceramic pizza stone that way because I know the dang thing will crack.

[22:41] Oh, you've tried it? No, but I mean, the ceramic does typically not like to be heated unevenly. Yeah, no, I mean, that's true. It's a $50 experiment I've refrained from doing. Right, right. So, I mean, clearly the steel is not going to crack. Do you, how do you have me feel for how likely it would be to take a permanent warp? Uh, okay, uh, I haven't thought about it. However, I'll say this. Uh, you're going to buy it from the guy in Massachusetts is making it with the modernist cuisine label on it. Yes, that is my intention costs about 75 bucks. Okay. So, I don't remember exactly how thick it is, but remember, the whole, the whole McGill on that sucker is that it's thick enough to store up enough thermal energy to put a wallop into your

[23:24] crust, right? So you're going to have some inherent stiffness from just the fact that it's a thicker material, but the

[23:32] other, the other good news is, is you're not heating it up to like a cherry red. You're not like putting like an oxyacetylene flame on it and melting it out. It's probably going to take quite a bit of energy to warp that out as opposed to like, you know, a black steel pan, which is incredibly easy to warp on a range, right? Yeah, been there, done that? Yeah, and you're probably going to have a more widespread out heat pattern than you

[23:53] would on a range if you're doing it on a grill. But the good news is this. I don't know that guy in Massachusetts and never met him, never spoken to him. However, I have spoken to Chris Young about him when they were starting that project because he was here on the radio show like a year or so ago talking about it. And the fellow that's doing it is an engineer. And, uh, my, uh, you know, uh, and I'm biased because I got a family full of engineers, but, um, my, my feeling

[24:21] is uh, that, uh, it's probably something that he's tested because, uh, you know, engineers are like that.

[24:27] You know what I mean? So it's worth calling them and asking them questions. I would call I would call him personally and ask a question. My impression is he's not like some giant conglomerate, he's a human being. But, I mean, he has a real company that does other stuff, like a bigger company. I believe he's a metal fabricator or something like that or has some sort of large shop, but the guy who spearheaded that at that company might be the owner or not is an actual human being. I will attempt to look him up, and then third, again, completely. emulated question. I use my sous vide setup. More for um, con fees than anything else. And it works fantastic and I love it. But basic food safety question. If it's been in 180 degree, you know, a reasonable size bag, but in 180

[25:10] degrees, Fahrenheit for, you know, eight, 10 hours. Is it essentially, I mean, canned? I mean, do I need to worry about the big ice water bath and. Yeah, no, it is not. uh, it is not canned and yes and no. Here the deal. So, uh, the original old school confit recipes, right? have, uh, a fairly extensive, uh, salting regimen prior to the comfit process. They also have, uh, you know, a classic uh, bunch of uh, herbs that gets packed into it. Those herbs, time and whatnot, are, you know, our bacteria static, uh, have some bacteria static effect. And, um, salt is there to provide, um, to provide, you know, some bacterial protection. So now, I don't know of any cases of someone getting, what you're worried about is spore forming bacteria here. You're going to kill all the vegetative stuff, but you're not going to wipe out the spores. So the question is, is the water, and here's the other problem. When you're doing a traditional comfit, you have 1st assault that gets rid of some moisture and increases the salt level, that's inhibiting bacteria.

[26:23] You have the putting of the of the herbs on. That's somewhat inhibiting bacteria, though it's hard to quantify. You then have the traditional confit in an open roaster, let's say, or on a pot in a stove. NAS sucker is also getting rid of moisture because moisture is evaporating off and can get out. When you're doing it in the bag, most modern coffee recipes don't have as much salt, so I can't guarantee there's bacteria static. You're not necessarily using the same herb profile, so can't guarantee bacteria static there. And also, you're not evaporating the moisture out of the bag. The moisture stays in the bag, which is why you get a little gelet in the bottom of a bad confit item. Now, I like all that in terms of taste, but I wouldn't trust it for, uh, I wouldn't trust it for room temperature and for not having spores in

[27:10] it. Okay? So I would, you know, if you want to do it that way, you know, you got to get a retort bag,

[27:16] you can buy retort bags, and then just, you know, you could pressure, you could pressure the retort bag, and then those suckers are sterile, they'd be shelf stable at that point.

[27:23] Okay, so all right, so I need to be caught more cautious on this than on the pickle question. I would yeah. Okay, fair enough. That was my question. Thank you very much. Thank you. have a good one You too. All right, Jack, let's go to our 1st commercial break. I'll come back with some safety issues on this here's all cooking your show.

[28:27] Today's program has been brought to you by S. Wallace Edwards and Sons. Edward Suriano hams are aged perfection for no less than 400 days, and hickory smoke to achieve a deep mahogany color. The Edwards name is well known for its world class, aged and cured meats. Their exclusive curing and aging recipe produces a unique flavor profile that enhances the quality characteristics

[28:52] approach your pork. Optimum amounts of pure white fat marbling contribute to a flavor that's a delicate, perfect balance between sweet and salty. For more information, Visit www.surryfarms.com. Did you know heritageradionetwork.org is a member-supported nonprofit organization. If you like what you're listening to, go to our website and click that donate button. Become a member and get special discounts, invites, VIP

[29:18] treatment, t-shirts and more. Support us in our mission to bring you the freshest food content in the nation. Nice. Glad to see Sam Edwards is supporting the show. You know, I like the SWS Edwards Ham. Joe, you like that stuff? I do enjoy the Soriano Ham. And Dave, you have another caller. I do? Yep. Seriano, SLS Edwards. Great product. I don't like the name. Call her, you're on the air. Hey, Dave, it's Aaron Warren calling from Edmonton, Alberta. I just had a question for you about, uh, solar streams. About what? About Soda Stream? Oh, cool, all right. Okay, so I, I purchased uh, just the cheap, I'll use soda stream online and uh, I did some research previous to it, and noticed that there's a company

[30:06] that, uh, basically is able to provide you with a clip, so that you can put uh, a CO2 cartridge onto the soda stream without purchasing

[30:18] it, or exchanging it directly through them. But, Upon further reading, I noticed that the CO2 actually

[30:27] isn't food grade, it's uh, paintball CO2 or designed for paintball guns. Is that a concern? Well, that's an interesting question. So, you know, if you go to the big restaurant shows. There are companies that only supply CO2 for the beverage industry, right? Um, and also if you buy your gases from people like ISI, let's

[30:53] say, in the small cartridges. You know, they make a lot about the purity of the gases that go in it. I have always, and everyone I know purchases CO2, not from paintball suppliers, but from welding

[31:07] suppliers. Uh, including it, you know, restaurants and, you know, most of those, unless you're getting your gas directly from Coca-Cola or Pepsi or whoever you deal with, you know, universal beverage or

[31:18] Coke, whoever you deal with. Um, you know, pretty much we're all using the welding gas and that's it. I've never noticed any taste problems or anything like that. I mean, the stuff is, you know, it's it's high purity. I don't know. I can't, I can't say as I've studied it too much except for I don't ever worry about it. And I've actually filled, I have a 40 I have a £40 or £50 siphon tank and I fill up smaller

[31:46] things, including 20 ounce paintball tanks with it. fill it myself, you know, although I don't recommend filling your own tanks unless you do like a lot of reading on the safety because if you fill your own tank and you do it wrong, you cause a

[31:57] serious, it's a serious hazard. An incorrectly filled tank is a serious, serious hazard. So I don't, you know, I don't recommend doing it unless you've done a lot of research on it, but

[32:07] yeah, so I wouldn't worry about it. I think, you know, the soda stream people have done a great service to the world in that they've brought home carbonated beverages to a large, large number of people, but they are ripping you off for

[32:18] CO2. There is another... And that's kind of why I wanted to go with this little mod clip that they have, is this so I could basically cheap out a bit more on that without spending the 2 or 300

[32:30] bucks it would cost me to get the, you know, £20 tank and regulate it. Well, that's the thing, £20 tank, a £20 tank, and a regulator is not that expensive. Everyone buys it and this is no offense to any homebrew people that are listening, but those guys are small shops that need to

[32:46] make, they make their profit up, but they don't sell that many. right? So the prices on like a on a tank are fairly high in a regulator. You know, if you can get a £5 tank, which is a lot easier to sling, if you're

[33:01] going, if you're doing it in your house in a 20. And I want to say that a £5 tank is way under

[33:07] 100 bucks. And a regulator is like 30. If you get it from Mark Powers in the Guntersville, Alabama, I don't know about Canada. I don't know what the rules are up there. You know, I hesitate buying a used

[33:19] tank just because you got to make sure when you buy a used, I mean, you can, I have, but you got to make sure when you buy a used tank that it's still certified. Otherwise, you're going to have to get certified. Um, you know what I mean? But once you get the investment in and once you have that tank, then CO2 is so cheap, it's ridiculous.

[33:36] Your price per liter drops to, you know, like a penny. It's ridiculous. you know, like a £20 CO2 tank does like on the order of 200 gallons of seltzer water.

[33:47] We think about that. And let's say it's 20 bucks, which I don't even think it's 20 bucks. So that's 20 bucks for 200 gallons. You can really get more. That's, uh, what is that? That's $10 That's a dollar for 10 gallons. Is that right? Right? Yeah. Yeah. It's a dollar for 10 gallons. So that's ¢10 a gallon, that's like 2.5 a liter. Think about that. Yeah, yeah. Ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah. Plus you're not going to run out very often. So no, no, never. you know, once every couple of years, probably. I mean, I mean, look, once you have it in your house, I go through a lot of stuff. I go through tanks and tanks and tanks, especially, you know, when you 1st set up your rig, you probably have a leaky system and you'll lose your tank a lot faster than you should, but yeah, tank lasts a good long time, even with a family of 4 that drinks almost

[34:36] exclusively seltzer. It lasts a good long time. So I would definitely go that route. It's going to save you money in the long run for sure. And then later on, if you decide to move on to a different system, you already have the tank. You can do anything you want. If you want to get a carbonator cap system and take a T branch off your regulator and then do cocktails that way, which is kind of more flexible than doing it in soda stream style.

[34:59] You can. That's only another 15, $16 investment to your system. You can upgrade it right away and you're not paying for a preposterous amount for the CO2 every time you do it.

[35:09] Everyone tries to make their money on the gas. And for me, that's just not a proposition I enjoy. Okay. You know what I mean? All right, great. Thanks for all the info, day. App appreciate it. Love the show. Oh thanks a lot. No problem. Good luck with it. Okay. So back to the safety on Ingburst question on the seers all. So the, I mean, 1st of all, obviously, we have lawyers looking at it. We have insurance companies, we're talking to about getting insurance, and like I'm sure a good chunk of the cost of the item to the consumer is going to be our insurance for

[35:41] it. But we're doing a lot of work to make sure that the product itself is safe.

[35:48] So, you know, the initial design of it was kind of operator ease of use and comfort, right? So the cone is the cone was there originally to stop heat from coming back on your knuckles, to make sure that everything worked fine there. The second, then after we got initial usability down, we focused, you know, a lot of our attention is being focused right now on safety issues.

[36:10] So, you know, the very 1st thing we said is this thing is too tippy. We made a clamp, clamp that fits on it. And the clamp actually is kind of cool because the clamp will fit on butane tank, the tall propane tank, and the camping propane tank.

[36:25] It'll also fit on a wine bottle if you want to take it to a picnic. yeah, right? Ooh. So your wine bottles doesn't fall over. That's the only thing Nastasia cares about. Is that it fits on the wine bottle? Right, Stas? That's right Yeah, yeah. And what's the name of this thing, Dave? It's the jed clamp. Because why? We're stupid. Yeah, we're stupid. But what, but no one, some people might not get it. Go get the go get the jet clamp. J clamp it. J clamp it. Get it, get it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's a good one, right? And everyone's like, you're stupid. That's a dumb name. you're like, guess what? I don't care. I get to name it. You don't. It's the Jed clamp. Anyway, so Jed Clamp will fit on a propane tank, butane tank, wine bottle, and you name it. In fact, eventually, we want to sell that sucker just for use with regular torches because I've always thought torches were unsafe standing up there on its own. So that's something we addressed. But Dave Chang, especially, was like, people aren't always going to put the, um,

[37:18] iron's going to put the clamp on. So we're trying to engineer it such that it's safe even without that. First of all, the one that has been on the on our web there. If we've modified it since then, there's a safety cage around it. And the safety cage is made of wire so that it doesn't retain heat very much. And you can, you can literally knock it over on the table and it won't catch anything on fire. And it's still hot. not gonna lie, but you can you can hit it after it's been on for a long time and not sustain horrible burns as if

[37:45] it like you would if the naked cone fell on you. Uh, and we're still right now before we, and one of the reasons we haven't kickstarted, yes, we're still working on a bunch of different safety tweaks to make it as safe as we possibly

[37:58] can. Uh, you know, and in addition, of course, it's going to come with a list of instructions a mile long on what to do and

[38:04] whatnot to do, but rest assured that uh, the safety of the product is, um, you know, once we came up with

[38:11] the functionality that we liked, the safety of the product is our primary concern.

[38:15] Wouldn't you say that's true, Stas? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh, that was good. That's enough on that, right, Stas? Bueno? Bueno? Okay, bueno. Uh, Brandon Hopkins writes in from Phoenix, Arizona. I haven't been to Phoenix in a long time. Styles, you ever been to Phoenix? Yes, they have. I don't like it. What? What do you have against Phoenix? What? You don't like it. What is it? no hipsters there, Stas. are weird. What? Who the hell do you like? You don't like hipsters? I have a new contest. You get a free t-shirt. If you write in 5 things Nastasia likes. No one will ever win. No one will ever win that. Now, like, you'd have that contest done before the end of the show if you're like, tweet in 5 things she hates. Yeah, it'd be over. That's not the point. Yeah, yeah. 5 things she likes So what do you have against Phoenix besides the awesome Suwaro cactuses and the awesome smell of the desert? Uh, my grandmother lived there. I do like Sedona. Sedona is beautiful. you been there? Is it like Sedona? You don't wait. Whoa, hold up. You don't like hipsters, but you like weird hippie freaks? No offense to donut? No, I like the landscape. I don't like the weird hippie freak part. No offense, weird hippie freaks. We love you. But yeah, no, Sedona is nice. My father-in-law used to fly into Sedona's airport, and that's a bumpy ride in a Cesno 172. Let me tell you. Anyway, I like Phoenix and I think it's good stuff. I haven't been out there in a long, long, long time, probably 13 years. Anyway, I hope they got the pollution problem fixed. You know, when I used to go out there in the in the 90s. They were like the last place on earth, you can still use leaded gas. I hope they've changed that. I have no idea. Anyway, Brandon says, I discovered your podcast a few weeks ago and I've been catching up on episodes since then. have a few questions. I bought a poly-science creative series circulator last week and I've been using Ziploc bags per Euro low temperature primer. Are there any applications where a vacuum sealer is a must have. For example, what I need to vacuum seal short ribs before I cook them for 72 hours. No, you don't. Well, we'll get into it. With the VACMaster VP 112 chamber sealer work well enough to also do a quick pickling or would I need a more expensive chamber sealer for that? Uh, so let's handle this before we uh, before I get on the 2nd question. So here's the deal. You can do, and I say this in the, in the, you know, when we used to teach it,

[40:41] um, you know, you can do 90% of what you want to

[40:45] do, uh, without a vacuum by using ziplocs. However, right? If you seal something in a vacuum bag. So that's just from a cooking standpoint. vacuum shines in food preservation, right? So there's 2 reasons to use, uh, Well, there's many, but you know, 2 of the 2 of the main reasons to use a vacuum machine are, one, you can bag things so you can do low temperature cooking. And for me, personally, that's the most important thing. Two, by removing the oxygen from the bag, you

[41:17] are, and also by removing any sort of gas content, if you're going to freeze, let's say,

[41:21] something, if you're going to freeze it. By removing air and or oxygen, all that stuff, you are preserving the product in a better condition for a longer time, also doing things like preventing freezer burn, if you're going to freeze, et cetera, et cetera, preventing crystallization,

[41:36] because there's no surface from which the water can migrate out and form crystals on the surface. Okay? So, for preservation, you need vacuum. And the better the vacuum, the happier you're going to be. I haven't, the VAC Master VP 112, which is what you're talking about, is, I've never used it, but I've looked at it on the web a bunch of times. It is a lot cheaper than the pumps, the vacuum sealers that I'm used to. And what it amounts, it's a chamber machine, which means that you're not sucking the air out of the bag. You're sucking the air out of a chamber and then sealing the bag. That by far and away is the better system to use than one where you're sucking air out of the bag. I've had nothing but bad luck with the ones where you suck the air out of the bag, with the exception of like 36 inch striped bass, which I can't figure out how to seal any other way. Uh, so anyway, so yes, so the chamber is a good good way to go, but the VACMaster looks like just kind of, like a food saver on steroids. And by that, I mean, it doesn't have a commercial quality vacuum pump in it.

[42:39] All of the kind of, all of the big kid vacuum machines, the chamber machines, have in them a bush

[42:47] pump made by the bush corporation. And those things are monsters. They're, they're always, always work. They're awesome, right? They suck a very fast vacuum, and there's go down to a very low number of millibars. So they're just a good piece of equipment all the way around. And all of the major ones that you find, you know, mini pack, multivac, and cotch, they all use that brand because everyone knows they're the best ones out there for normal use,

[43:16] right? Now, this guy has a piston pump in it, which it has its limitations. It's never going to pump as hard a vacuum as those other things. It's never going to pump as quickly as those other things. Now, the question is, is it enough? I don't know. You know, when I looked on the web, I looked this morning, and I looked at a bunch of reviews online of people that have it. You know, they buy it at Cabela's, which is, you know, the, you know, the sporting goods store because, you know, hunters buy it and things like this. And some of the people that have it like it. However, I never saw this. I never saw, hey, you know what? I'm used to working in a kitchen or in a processing plant with, you know, a real vacuum machine, like a mini pack. And I had this one and it's almost as good. Didn't see that once. Didn't see that once. I did not see one consumer, uh, or one customer review of that machine that, that, um, that said that it compared to what I would consider to be, you know, the commercial machines that

[44:17] I, that I'm used to. And I will also say I spoke to a mini pack rep yesterday, and he said that in one of the places, they sell a lot of vacuum things in Alaska because they have a lot of fish and they're

[44:27] vacuuming the fish down, you know, for freezing and shipping. And he says that literally in their in their showroom, they have that unit, the

[44:36] VACMaster sitting next to their unit, so you can make a decision for yourself, which way to go. Now, at home, maybe it's enough. I don't really know how high of a vacuum level it can get. If the vacuum pump is no better than a food saver. It's not going to do as good a job, a quick pickles, anywhere near as good a job as a real vacuum machine can do, but I don't have any personal experience with it.

[44:56] What do you think, Stas? Yeah, man, I don't want to be snobby about it. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like I'm being a jerk because it is literally a 3rd of the price of the next

[45:06] machine up. one third. You know what I mean? So I don't know whether you can get away with it or not. No one's ever sent us one so I so I can't make an informed judgment. If anyone out there in Tweeterland has used both like a regular commercial machine, like a mini

[45:25] pack of multivac or a kotch or something similar and one of those VAC masters. Please just, you know, tweet in and tell us what you think, whether or not it was, uh, whether or not

[45:33] I would do anything. Okay. 2nd question. Is there a way to make powdered Dr. Pepper? That's SCO, it's all used, does. Yeah, wouldn't you put it in the liquid nitrogen? No that would just freeze it. That would just freeze it. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, 2nd question, is there a way to make powder, Dr. Pepper? I thought it would make a good addition to spice rubs. If it is possible, what would be the shelf life? Well, the shelf life would probably mean non-finite. You know what I mean? If you could do it. Here's the problem. Dehydrating things with sugar in them can be quite difficult because the more you dehydrate

[46:07] something, kind of the more the sugar doesn't want to lose that last little bit of water until you crystallize it out, but it's more difficult to crystallize because they're using high fructose corn syrup, eccentric,

[46:16] etc. Here's what you do. First of all, forget using regular Dr. Pepper. right? Forget it. Just go to, you can go, you can buy. I saw it on the Sam's Club website this morning. You can buy Dr. Pepper syrup. I couldn't locate the exact bricks, but since Dr. Pepper is probably somewhere around 11 bricks. And since it's a 5 to one syrup to soda ratio, that means that you multiply by 6 to

[46:41] get you multiply by 6 to get the bricks. So it's probably somewhere in the area of 60 to 66 bricks, meaning 66% sugar in the syrup that you get. So for every kilo of that, you only need to remove

[46:54] 3 you only need to remove 300 mils, 333 mils of water. Now, what I would do is you could try boiling some water out, but it's

[47:05] going to get sludgy, it's going to heat up fast. Once it heats up, it's going to start changing the flavor. You could try spreading it thin and putting it a dehydrator and then trying to get it down to something more

[47:15] brittle and then pulverizing it with the rest of your salt rub so that your salt or your spice rub, absorb some of the extra moisture and it's going to turn grainy and sandy. You could do that. But, you know, short of that, you're going to need like something commercial, like a spray dryer or what I would more preferably do is freeze dry because freeze

[47:34] dry, you could get it down to a powder. It would just be like sugar and it wouldn't have any heat damage, but I don't know anyone that makes it freeze

[47:40] dried. And actually, Styles, did you ever find that person who could do contract freeze drying? Yeah, you have a guy. Yeah. I tweeted out. tweeted out. Nastasia on, what's your tweeter there? Hammer BDX? Hammer BDX? Yeah, Nastasia will Twitter out the person who can do contract freeze drying? Because maybe they can freeze dry, use some Dr. Pepper syrup, and then you have Dr. Pepper powder. Uh, they made a Dr. Pepper gum when I say, uh, I forget who made it, but I saw that on the web too. They made it. Here's an interesting thing about Dr. Pepper. I looked it up. Of course, I looked it up. So the flavorings. Daniel Stas does not contain prune juice. What? Dr. Pepper? You know, for years, I always thought it was prune. In fact, there's no prune in it or prune flavor. And like everyone... You just mentioned one thing that I like, so that's a free giveaway for someone today. So is that still trying to think? Oh yeah, all right. Not fair, fair. So, but still, like naming forth, naming 4 things. We're going to be waiting for God with this thing. So, uh, so Dr. Pepper doesn't actually contain prunes, uh, but that kind of spoils it for me because

[48:42] like I love the whole prune thing. In fact, my favorite, you know how like every soda has like a ripoff brand at the supermarket? You know, like whatever. And the one, my favorite Dr. Pepper ripoff is a Dr. Thunder, presumably because of the effect of the prune on your

[48:56] GI tract. After Thunder. anyway. Uh, so point is, uh, it doesn't contain prune. Here, according to, there's a, there's a fact, an FAQ, uh, and

[49:09] here, look it up under free New York.net, DP fact, standing for Dr. Pepperfec. And here's what they list. They go through a bunch of things. This seems kind of relatively true. Vanilla, almond, right? And this is why it's almoretto, amoretto, and rum is the flaming Dr. Pepper shot. So because it's vanilla, almond, denatured rum, which they probably means like some sort of rum

[49:32] de alcoholized rum, oil of orange, and phosphoric

[49:37] acid and lactic acid. And also some citric. So really interesting acid blend in there. And so, uh, those flavors explain why the flaming Dr. Pepper, which is Amaretto and uh, Amaretto and

[49:50] rum, lit on fire, why that tastes like a Dr. Pepper's, because you've hit, if you put a little orange in it, you've hit pretty much all

[49:57] the the high notes in, uh, especially if you use an age rum, which is going to have the vanilla notes from the wood.

[50:03] You've hit almost all the high notes in a Dr. Pepper. That's cool, right, Stas? Yeah, yeah. Really cool. Are you a fan of the, are you a fan of the flaming Dr. Pepper drink? Not really. You prefer the actual Dr. Pepper? I do. You know it, every lunch, every Tuesday. Yes, that's true. So, I'm not going to even eat lunch because, like, what am I going to? By the way, so the reason why Nastasia and I do this show is not for you fine listeners out there, although I guess it is. It's for the pizza and the salad. We get a pizza and a salad. That's the that's the that's the pay. Oh, really? That's it? That's the big bucks we make. And getting to talk to Jack and Joe every week. Which is like getting 2 pizzas in the salad, really. And seeing Indie Jesus sometimes. Yeah, sometimes. Although he hates us because, you know, you talk smack about him. Jack and I equal one pizza. I thought that was good. You want it? That's fine. That's about it. accurate. Yeah, yeah. So, anyway, so like, I'm not that guy that's going to sit here and just eat my pizza by myself in silence. I'm just kind of I'm not going to have lunch this week. unless you guys want to eat with me. Do guys want to eat with me? Maybe Joe can have a pizza with you and yeah. All right, nice. All right, Stas. St, you've been replaced. All right. So, Chris Anderson from Modernist Pantry Writes In. Hey, Chris. Modernist Pantry. Hope all is well. We have just been getting a number of calls lately from your listeners looking for novo shape. I just wanted to let you know we are now stocking it based on your recommendation. Chris Anderson from Modernist Pantry. Nova Shape, good call. Uh, Styles. lets order some of that stuff for ourselves because I don't think I have any left. Here's the here's the deal with Novo shape. Novo shape. It's the exact opposite of the enzyme that we use almost all the time, which is Pectinex Ultra SPL. Novo shape, cross links in the presence of calcium. Don't forget to add your calcium, people. You need to add calcium, and it cross links pectins in the presence of it and makes fruit and other vegetables a lot firmer. So, like the ossified vegetables or whatever that they, you know, do

[52:02] it mugarites or that they do it and all that. You can do that without using very heavily flavor mediated calciums by using novo shape in conjunction with

[52:13] like a milder calcium. Also, if you want to make yourself some cocktail cherries from fresh cherries when cherry season runs around. Or when any of your fresh fruits are coming in and you want to can them and have a real nice firm fruit, you can use

[52:26] novo shape and calcium and really firm the fruit up so that it keeps for a long time if you're going to brandy or something like that. So as the spring and summer rolls around and the fruit comes in, consider getting some novo shape to really just increase the quality of your brandied

[52:42] and candied fruits. How's that for a pitch? Yeah. Okay. Finally, Eric writes in on the red velvet cake. Hey, cookie, and I know we've done we've done a little bit of red velvet cake in the past, but here we go. Hey, cooking issues crew. I've been looking into red velvet cakes recently, and I'd love to find a recipe without die or beats.

[53:03] My research showed that the anthocyanins, that anthocyanins would turn the batter

[53:08] red, the anthocyanins, you turn the batter red with buttermilk and vinegar. The problem is most cocoa in these recipes is Dutch processed, and it's just too basic. I'm looking not looking for an extreme blood red, but something more than the brown chocolate cake that normally comes without

[53:25] dye. Any help would be appreciated. Okay, here's the problem, Eric. All of the natural colorings that I know that are red come from one of 2 like styles. There's beetle lanes, which are from beats and other, you know, related

[53:42] plants and anthocyanins, which you get in, uh, things like cabbages or in, in a bunch of flowers and teas, and all of those pigments. Our pH sensitive to one degree or another. Now that said, you can, uh, you know, you can, uh,

[54:02] the cabbage is fairly neutral. If you want to go anthocyanin and beats, I don't know how neutral it is. The problem with beats is it's beats are extremely concentrated source of color, which is why they're

[54:12] good. But a good sort. I know you said you didn't want to do beats. But if you want to look at a really red cake that's beat-based, Go to the big bake theory, blogs, you know, blog, and they, uh, the person there, I don't know who it

[54:26] is, actually. But they did a whole series of tests and the red velvet cake. Their beat-based red velvet cake is freaking red.

[54:36] And for them, you know, they they point out all the things that are important. When you're using a natural, um, when you're using a natural dye,

[54:42] anthasine, and orbetylin-based. Like the things that are important are the pH, and you're going to want your pH to be lower, which means that you're going to have to switch away from the Dutch Dutch

[54:52] cocoa, unless you really, really insist on having the flavor of the Dutch processed cocoa, in which case you're going to have some difficulty because it's difficult to get a bright

[55:00] red if you're going to have something. I mean, the reason that Dutch processed cocoa is the color it is and is the flavor it is, is because of the alkaline processing. And I think, like, in other words, I don't think you can just add extra acidity to neutralize the Dutch cocoa and have it

[55:15] work. But maybe you can. I have to run some tests. Uh, heat. So they found on that website that, uh, and I've noticed this as well, that the longer something is heated and the further away it is from raw, the less red it is and the more you have to use to get

[55:27] it, uh, to that color. So on that website, they literally blend in a food processor, raw beets and water. It's got to be one king hell mess, right? It's gotta be some messy stuff. I'm going to make Nastasia do that if she does it because I... Hey, guys, we got a tweet in for with hashtag Five Things Hammer Likes. Oh, let's hear it. I'm ready to disqualify number four, but I'll read it for you guys. We've got champagne. Oh, yes. Check. Mark Ladner. I don't know why they said that. All right. I'm going to assume check. California? Check. That's kind of broke. I guess so. I have to give, yeah, okay. But you hate everything from your childhood and that includes California. Not true. Go on, Jack. All right, number four, this is where I disqualify hating hipsters. I't know if you can like hating hipsters. I don't know, that's kind of a strong move, though. Yeah it is. Yeah, he's like hating on hipsters. All right. And then number 5 is Zappos, a.k.a. So I'll let you I'll let you give it the y or nay, Nastasia. Yay, yes. All right, we got a winner. Who is it? T-shirts on the way. Cool. From Twitter, we got it's Elliot Pavanaugh. Oh, Elliot. And congratulations on your t-shirt. Does we already have a t-shirt? Is he a member? I don't know. Email us your size or maybe your girlfriend's size or something. Nice. We'll get one out. All right, thanks for writing in, Elliot. Okay, so what I would do, Eric, and I'm going to try and look more into it. I have a bunch of articles that I have backlog, red,

[57:00] backlog, and 2 read on different ways to affect the stability of

[57:04] natural-based red and blue pigments because I've been doing Samantha sign and work for the

[57:09] bar. So I'm going to try to get back to that. As soon as I figure it out, I'll do it. But go to the big bake theories, a website, and look up the recipe they have there. They don't use Dutch process cocoa, and they use cream of tartar and buttermilk and fresh beets. Uh, so anyway, check it out. I know you said no beat, but check it out. You could probably do the same thing with cabbage as long as you really acidify the sucker so that it goes bright, bright red. Now, on the way out, I want to say that, you know, I'm on this, you know,

[57:38] nations restaurant news, anyone know what I'm talking about? Nations restaurant news? I read it. Yeah. Anyway, uh, it's Nations Restaurant news. You know, they send stuff to my inbox every day. So this one caught my caught my eye. KFC, this is what's awesome about the world, right? This is big news. KFC is coming out with boneless chicken. you guys know this? Yeah, they're doing away with the regular stuff, right? Are they doing away with it? I think the boneless will be the new promoted line above everything else. Don't worry, folks. They're not like raising some sort of like, you know, like, you know, osteo challenged chicken. They're actual chickens that the bones have been removed from. It's not like some like weird sack of growing chicken plasm that they have around. They're real chickens. Now, I've been saying, by the way, I've been saying boneless chicken for decades because my wife does not like to eat chicken off the

[58:25] bone. First of all, thank God she doesn't listen to a word I say because she hates when I talk about that in public, but she does not like to eat chicken on the bone.

[58:32] And so for years, I've boned everything, you know, bone the legs, bone, just bone the whole bone and everything. And it is really, frankly, more enjoyable. It's more enjoyable because I'm not going to call anyone out, Nastasia, but she takes 3 bites off the drumstick and then leaves all the meat around the

[58:47] bone and throws the thing away. Weak. Yeah, whereas when you're boneless, you eat the whole thing. That's guilty as charge, right, Stas? That is true. Yeah, yeah, but it's endearing in a way. No, no. anyway. So here's the thing. like, all of a sudden, it's like huge news that they're going to go boneless on

[59:05] the, on the, on the KFC, and then all they have to do to make big news is take the bones out of the freaking chicken. That's all it takes. We're in the wrong in the wrong damn business. I swear to God. But this is what got me, and this is why I'm going to end with this. Here is a subset of everything that is wrong with the mental process of American food thinking,

[59:25] okay? Uh, the, the, one of the, one of the firms that was hired by KFC, as a senior consumer research manager, said this about why they think the boneless Kentucky

[59:37] fried chicken is going to be popular. Are you ready for this? This is quoted in Nation's restaurant news. I think this also has to do with healthfulness because if you see boneless, even if the product is breaded and fried, we tend to think of boneless as less.

[59:55] And so therefore, maybe more helpful. I think healthful. Seriously. I think the idea of boneless in general is one we'll see a lot more of. Can you freaking believe that, people? That is how dumb. That is how dumb people think that we are that by just having the word less attached to the word

[1:00:15] bone that the fried chicken is going to be more helpful? Not that I like thinking of fried chicken in health terms anyway, because you know

[1:00:23] what, you should eat a reasonable amount of anything you find delicious and don't go crazy, including fried chicken, bones

[1:00:29] in or bones out, cooking issues. Thanks for listening to this program on heritageradionetwork.org. You can find all of our archived programs on our website or as podcasts in the iTunes

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