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[0:28] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live, Roberta's Pizzeria and Bushwick, Brooklyn, on the Heritage Radio Network, every Tuesday from roughly 12 to 1245. Join as usual in the studio with Nastasia, the Hammer, Lopez, how you doing? Good. That pizza is called the Slammer. Really? The Hammer and the Slammer. So what's on this pizza from a bird? By the way, today we have to go shoot at food and wine. Maybe we'll talk about it later. And so we have to take our launch during our commercial breaks today. Boo-hoo. So what's on this pizza this slammer? It's collard greens and prosciutto, I think. Yeah? I don't know. I don't know. Joe, what do we got on this pizza here? don't think he knows. I don't know. I'm not a restaurant. I'm not actually working in the restaurant. I just bring the pizza. Yeah, but you know, I don't know. It's my fault. I should read it more closely. All I saw was greens on top. See, Roberta, they had these pizzas with greens on them, and Stas and I love the pizzas with greens on them. And then whenever we want one, they're like, nah, not today. No greens today. I love greens on pizza, by the way. I like them when they're when they're cooked down, as these appear to be, and I like them when they're not cooked down. Yeah, I like them. both ways. Yeah. It's a good product. greens on a pizza. Didn't mean to put you on the spot there. Joe, how you doing? I'm doing great. Thanks. A little red in the face now. As you said, you don't work in the restaurant. It's not your job, you know? I just thought maybe you had had it and you would, you know, taking note of... I'm going to start up my own pizza blog for all the cooking issues, listeners, about all the Roberta's pizzas.

[1:59] Maybe someday. Oh, I just stuck the headphone cord and the pizza is such a party foul. So while we're on the topic here, Nastasia, you said to bring it up. Oh, okay, all right, we can do it. Yeah, so Nastasia and I have a an ongoing kind of feud battle. accurate. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, one of many. one of many. one we're willing to share. And so, you know, some of you may know, I have 2 kids and a wife, right? And so, you know, I've kind of been through this whole scenario in New York, by the way. And not so easy being a mom in New York, if you want to like go outside, you know,

[2:39] it's, you can't like lock yourself away in your, uh, in your tiny apartment all day, go freaking bananas. And so I am not in the least bothered by any sort of public display of feeding your babies if you get my drift.

[2:52] Breastfeeding. Yes, breastfeeding the babies. And Stas here is bothered by you. want to talk about that? Well, it's just that Roberta's especially is a breeding ground for these women who take their entire breast out and don't cover it up. Just don't look at it. Just don't look. It's so easy. It's not the look at people. like, why don't you just cover it with like a nice, they make stuff like that. You could get a nice scarf. Like, you know, like, why do you need to show it? I just don't think that there's not, it's not about you. You see, you're looking at it like it's about you. No. If you're eating in a restaurant and a woman has her breasts out. It's it's always at Roberta's. It's, you have pizza in front of you, you have cheeses. you have, you know, what the heck does the pizza and the cheese have to do with it. Oh my goodness. And then there's the lady next to you. with her breast out. Joe, you want to weigh in on his face? Joe, what do you think? Um, I see it from I see it from both ways. My thought is that, yeah, you can just avert your eyes, but as soon as you started going about the

[3:57] cheese. I don't know. That was a little much for me. Well, that's because she's got a demented mind. Like she makes connections that don't exist. I want writers or callers or listeners or whatever to weigh in on it. Hey, you know what I want? I want mothers to be able to go out and eat whenever they go. I think they should do it when you know, obviously they have to do it when they're baby's hungry, but like cover it up in a public place. That is painful if you do not feed... I'm not telling them not to. cover it up. Cover it up. All right, whatever. I, you know, I just, I just don't, I don't see why it's. Would you like to, let's say that a man had to do it with a different appendage? That is crazy. That is too crazy. crazy, crazy, crazy statement. Whoa. I cannot believe that you have said this on the air. Now, I want you people out there. This is a little taste of what it's like. A little bit of a taste. Somebody had to say it. Nobody had to say that. Nobody had to say that. Call in. Call in your responses to Nastasia or any other questions, cooking or otherwise too. 718-497-2128. 7184972128. Longtime listener and supporter of Mofad, by the way. Lucas wrote in, uh, and says that, um, a longtime listener of the show. You know, he was a, he's now a finance guy, but he used to be involved in super low temperature physics, which is kind of interesting.

[5:18] I think he was saying he was dealing with, what do they call it? Like, um, Einstein, kind, what is it? Uh, kind of condensate. Super, super hyper, low temperature physics. Anyways, so he has a deal for us. He says he shot a doe yesterday, you know, the doe a deer, female deer. I shot a doe yesterday. He was hunting with a friend. He has half the meat, and you'll be happy to donate some of this in the name of the progress of science in terms of us

[5:43] cooking. Uh, uh, game meets low temperature. And I hope it's, you know, some point I hope to go hunting too. But yes, please, please send us some. He says, unfortunately, the condition to the deal with his friend were that all the awful from the 1st deer goes to his dogs, which is so weird. Your dog doesn't give a crap. Oh, my dog really only likes the deer that I hunt. My dog will eat any damn thing. You know what he likes the best now? Dehydrates. What? Oh shit. Again, again, with the nudging. Dehydrated lamb lung is seems his current favorite thing. can't get enough dehydrated and bread. Anyway, unfortunately, the conditions of the deal are all the awful from the 1st year goes to his dogs, but I have all the other cuts. Now, because I'm stupid, I butchered this myself, and since this is my 1st deer, it looks a little better than the 1st sushi I made, but, you know, it's kind of beat up. But certainly edible. Let me know if you guys are interested. Regards Lucas. Yes, we're interested. Would you like that? You like deer, right? don't think I've ever had it. Come on, really? We'll cook the hell out of that Lucas. Santa stuff. Well, is it frozen? Yeah. Like, we're pretty much like in a K-hole right now. Like, uh, at home, you know, well, we'll get into this later, but like, you know, I haven't been able to test any recipes. Um, um, you know, uh, Chris Kohler sent us

[6:57] the, uh, the tofu book by uh, by Nguyen. Thanks so much. super excited. I was reading through it and then I realized, hey, you know what? I want to make tofu right now, but guess what? I have no kitchen. I literally, I'm moving. Yeah, yeah, I mean, not permanently, but like, it's because my wife heard my rant about friars last week. No, I'm kidding. She doesn't listen to the show. Uh, but the uh, more on that later. But the, no, what happened was, uh, we're moving across the street and the people who are buying my new apartment, they don't want my, you know, commercial fryer, my

[7:27] commercial, my commercial range and all that stuff. So I had to rip it out of the wall. Good people. Well, I don't want to call out who it is. You know, yeah, they are relatives of mine. That's not the point. They don't want the, they don't want it. And so I had to rip it out with my bare hands. So now I'm back down to dorm room skills. I got a toaster oven, but I also have a searsaw. Oh yeah. So can I see her only something? Can I see her most things? What can I see her? Everything. No, Stas, you gotta get into them. I know. You got to get to the like, you know what? Christmas beer. She's already in the freaky Christmas spirit. not even Thanksgiving experience. And she's cracking out the Michael Bublé. Like, it's like the end of the world is coming with the Bublé. Bubles. Now, yeah, okay, whatever. I encourage you because whatever, but, like, I'm saying, like, you know, like, we're doing something exciting and you can't be like, whatever. whatever, whatever, whatever. Whatever. Again, now people, now you know. Now you know. Now, now you know. Okay. John Stewart wrote in. Uh, 2 cooking issues uh, about a serious Eats uh, and I couldn't figure out when the Sirius Eats uh, post was, but it was a, it was a Kenji Alt uh, post. Uh, and he says, um, question one. what it is, is this, I forget what they called it. They called it something. What do they call it? like a Turk nut, what do they call it? Like a Turk, Turk chedda or something like that. Yeah. It's a it's a rolled Turk. It's basically a rolled turkey. Turkey breast rolled with a skin. I can't, I didn't see the original recipe to see whether he had meat gluted or not, but, you know, I've been cooking rolled up poultry for since, you know, since I was a

[9:05] wee baby. Actually, you know what? Like, even before I had meat glue, Jacques Pepin back in the day used to do ballotines of chicken that were stuffed with kind of like a dried fruit

[9:15] stuffing. And I used to make those things constantly, like in my 20s. Like, that was my go-to. I used to love making that. This is slightly different. I think this meat glued. But Nils, you know, Nils Norin, formerly the FCI, good, you know, good friend of mine. He, back when he was at Akavit, would turn any meat into a tube. Any meat. You hand him a meat, he turned it into a tube. He would take, you know, lobsters, turn them into tubes, salmon, tubes, chicken, tube, tube,

[9:44] beef, tube. And so like, and the reason is that it nils like the tube so much is that it cooks very evenly across it.

[9:52] And so, you know, Nils had a very good meat gluing and rolling

[9:56] technique, and it was actually his formation of tubes that caused him to be kind of like

[10:01] one of the top two. They went back and forth, Wiley and nils on who was using the most meat glue in New York City way back in the day. Anyhoo. So, you know, after I started cooking with nose a lot, I, too, I, too, took up the, the, the tubes of meat uh, as a, as a thing. And so we used to turn, you know, just tubes constantly. Anyhoo. So, that's what we're talking about. So Kenji does a spiced on the inside, rolled up turkey breast with the skin around it that you low temp

[10:28] cook, and then deep fry, which is kind of a classical low temp classic mold. It's the low temp way to cook a bird like that in a simple fashion as opposed to the skeletonized turkey nonsense that we do every once in a while. I can't do that this year. I don't have a kitchen. Crazy sucks. We can't do that at the lab. We're not really set up for that at the lab. No. No. So I was like, please don't do it at the lab. The last time, I think I told I told this story of it, the last time I did a major poultry project at the lab. Actually, we did one yesterday. But the time before that, I blew up a pressure cooker and sprayed... Not the way you think. No, no, no. Well, I exploded the safety valve and it's it was old faithful of chicken grease everywhere. I can picture that as I can smell it and picture it right now. Anyway, so the questions. The recipe calls, this is Kenji's recipe calls for 60 degrees Celsius, for 4 to 5 hours, and then a deep fry. For most tender cuts like chicken breasts and tenderloins. I think you, you meaning me, recommend keeping the time shorter to prevent mushing its thoughts on

[11:28] this, and what would you use for the time temperature on a turkey breast? I'll just go through all the questions 1st and I'll answer them, you know, in whatever order my tangents allowed me to. Question two. The recipe calls for slashing the inside of the meat, rubbing with spices, then rolling it and binding it with twine. Would this be a good application for meat glue transplutaminates to bind it together better? If so, how would you otherwise change the technique? Still rub it, still rubbing his vices? Then does with TG enroll, or with the spices interfere, and or just be weird embedded in the meat. And question three, if using transportaminates, which one would you use? I see RM, GS, TI, and YG. 0 my. I like that. Uh, a good rhyme there, uh, available. Uh, from John Stewart. Okay, so, uh, or is he, didn't he call himself the other John Stewart once? the other Johns. Well, you know, since I don't know, again, like I said, since I don't know, the John Stewart that you're referencing is whatever, whatever. you are John Stewart John. Anyway, yeah, I would use Meek Glue on this. I mean, obviously you don't have to use meat glue. Um, but then if you don't use Miklu, you don't have to tie it, right? I mean, there you go. And then you can just roll it in, make sure you get a, you know, a polyethylene only plastic wrap, if you're going to use, if you're going to make the rolls with plastic wrap, and they're still on the cooking issues blog

[12:39] in the low temperature section, there's a whole pictorial blah, blah, who's it on how to roll? I think I do a chicken there and also a salmon. Show how to roll it. Make sure that you use a non-PVC one and smell the, smell your plastic wrap to make sure it doesn't smell all stanky and nasty, but the technique is all there

[12:57] and it's, you know, fairly simple to do. I would put the meat glue. I don't know if it really matters as long as you're not coating it with so much spices that the meat can't touch meat. I don't think it's going to really matter. You can use RM. RM is what I usually use. It's a powder and you sprinkle it on, because, I don't know, nils would always say he hated the ones that were made into paste because he didn't want to add a lot of water to the inside.

[13:21] But if you have a lot of spices, you can use the GS, which is a slurry and you paint it on, and you could paint it on, but don't paint too

[13:29] much, I mean, that's probably the one I add a lot of moisture, and then sprinkle the spices into the slurry, and then roll it up, and you'll

[13:34] be good to go. Uh, and with something like this, you could actually, uh, you wouldn't even actually have to wait for it to set. Normally you would wait for something to set, but as long as you're not cooking too high, 4 hours or so or overnight. As long as you're cooking down here in the 60 degree Celsius range, you could very easily just heat set it, put it in the bath, and as it cooks through, it will set. It won't be as strong as it would be if you let it set in the fridge overnight, but it'll be strong enough for the application that you have

[14:01] here, and then you won't have any twine marks around it, right? So that takes care of questions 2 and three, right? Now ask the question one. All right, look, I'm sure Kenji has access to all the same programs and databases

[14:13] that, you know, that I have. Uh, and so his 4 to 5 cooking uh, 4 to 5 hour cooking time at 60 degrees is probably based on what looked to

[14:24] be uh, roughly 4 inch uh, diameter cylinder, right? And so, the issue is, is that he's trying to get up to the actual temperature is 60 in the center of a 4 inch diameter

[14:38] tube, and that does take 4 to 5 hours. However, right? If you look at his recipe, so I'll say, I'll give you the recipe here for those of you that are interested, you can just look it up. I mean, you know, series heats. right there. But preheat sous vide water bath to 140 Fahrenheit, that's 60 for you folks who cook in Celsius

[14:54] land. Add a turkey and cook for 4 to 5 hours, remove and run under a cool running water, transfer to an ice bath to chill for 5 minutes. That's, again, old standard technique we used to do to not overcook the meat. Remove from a bag and add any congealed juices to the gravy, rigs carefully and

[15:09] thoroughly pat dry with paper towels, trim ends for a more cylindrical shape, if desired, although I would trim after you fry after you

[15:15] fry it, unless there's a lot of skin on the outside. Heat oil to 400 degrees. It's hot. In a large walker, Dutch oven did not feel more than one third of the way in order to allow for bubbling a displacement. He's overheating the oil here because he's going to get large temperature drops, he puts it in. Um, carefully slide the turkey into the oil using spatula and tongs. It will not be fully submerged, cover and cook, shaking the pan occasionally until the sputtering dies a bit. I would just ladle over the top or roll it in the thing instead of having to, like, I mean, I don't know, whatever, but this is just, these are just semantics, you know, choice of cook. Anyway, about 2 minutes, adjust a flame, but consistent 350, and then using a large metal ladle, spoon the hot oil. There you go, over the exposed portions of the rose continuously until the bottom half is cooked in crisp, about 5 minutes, carefully flip and cook on the 2nd side basting the whole time. So I guess he's covering it to get the temperature of the oil up faster by not having as much steam escape. That must be what he's doing here. But you're looking at a total cook time of 7 minutes at 350 degrees.

[16:09] And that is going to push the internal temperature of that. It's going to make a nice crispy skin, but it's going to push the interior temperature of the bird up considerably, which is why he's only cooking to 140

[16:22] degrees. Now, 140 degrees is too dang. I looked at the pictures. It cooked properly, but 140 degrees, 60 degrees Celsius. It's 2 dang low for 99% of the people who are going to eat turkey breast. It's still gonna have some of that weird translucency kind of hue to it and you wouldn't want to eat that, would you? No much. No. Like the minimum you want to cook a turkey breast too in the real world and real life is about 63 degrees or even some people prefer 64. Dark meats, you're looking at like 65s. It's the lowest, really, 66. Some people prefer. If you do low temperature cooking and you're careful and you've brined it, you can cook the white meat up that high, but, you know, whatever. These are the general numbers of what you want to cook turkey too. Now, in my opinion, uh, turkey meat that is cooked for longer than about 2 hours, low temperature, uh, it's not that it goes

[17:14] bad, it's that it gets what I, the texture is not as good if you taste it side by side with meat that was cooked to the same temperature

[17:21] at a shorter period of time. When you bite into it, it has a little bit of stringiness, mushiness, it releases its water in a way

[17:28] that I don't find as pleasant as I find ones that haven't been cooked for as long. Now, some people like that texture because we've done a bunch of side by side taste tests back when I was, you know, teaching low temperature cooking back at the FCI. But it's just not. It's just not what I like. What I would do. And if you were to get one of these things like sous vide dash or, you know,

[17:49] polycience, sous vide dashboard, whatever it's called now, one of these programs that allows you to check it. If you were to just increase the temperature of the cooking water by a mere 3 degrees, you would chop the time down to around under 3 hours.

[18:03] If you were to then reduce the cylinder size from 4 inches to 3 inches,

[18:06] you chop it down to like 2 and 2 in a fraction. hours to get it cooked up to this temperature in the center, right? And that, it seems to me, is a good way to do it. What I would do is do that and then ramp down the cooking temperature aggressively, uh, or put it in nice water a little bit longer so that you're not going to get an overcook when you put it into the

[18:27] fryer because it's going to be easier to drop that temperature a couple of degrees uh, than it is to raise it without overcooking. Does that make sense to us? Because anyway, so that's what I would do. I would cook it to a higher temperature and then drop it harder. And then fry it without overcooking it. And I think that's going to be better. especially you want to make it for a quick crust development. So I wouldn't actually cool it in the bag or in the, um, I mean, I wouldn't cool it in ice water in the bag. What I would do is cool it down to, I would drop the temperature aggressively to like 50 or 52, pull it out hot and let the steam flash off of the, uh, the,

[19:02] the moisture flash off of the, uh, the bird, maybe even hit it with a, with a fan or a hair dryer to put a pellicle on the outside. Do not use a used hair dryer on food, by the way, because you'll notice that it throws little pieces of burnt hair. What happens when people are blow drying their hair, is hair particles get sucked into the

[19:21] intake, and then some of them make it in, and then they get kind of slightly incinerated, and then when

[19:26] you when you fire it again, occasionally it will fire out these little bits of half burnt hair particle crap.

[19:31] That's how women get split in. What? over blue drying the hair. I hate blow dryers. In terms of, like, they should just call them like, you know, kind of food dryers. They're awesome at that. like French fries and everything, but like people try to put a blow dryer on my head. I'm like, what the hell are you doing? My hair will dry. My hair will dry. Like, I'm not going to get a cold going outside. Like, do not blow dry my hair. Do you use blow dryer? Nope. That's one of the reasons I like you stuff. No offense to all you blow dry people out there. They smell bad. They smell like burned harem. I guess for that reason. Yeah, I mean, like, you know, you're with me, right? Blow dryer, no good, right? No way. No, good good on food, though. They're good for that. Good to know. But don't use a used one. Anyway, so that's what I had something else to add to this, but I forget what it is. Who knows? I'll think of it at some point. You want to go to a break? All right, we'll go to a commercial break, come right back with cooking issues.

[20:53] This is Chris Howell from Kane Vineyard and Winering, calling in from Spring Mountain, above the Napa Valley. Thank you for listening to this show. In our industrial world of highly processed food and wine, we support the values of

[21:08] Heritage Radio network. All of us that came encourage you to seek out individuality and beauty in everything you eat and drink.

[21:16] To learn more about us go to cane 5.com.

[21:45] And we're back. Call any questions 2 718-497-2128. That's 718-497-2128. You want to know I'm one of the reasons why I'm a bad person? Everyone else loves it. I hate Napa. I hate it Napa Napa Valley. Oh, is it away? Yeah. Yeah, I hate it. I mean look, I like the people. I like the wineries. I like wine, but just that beating freaking sun. You know what I mean? What do you hate about it? You just don't like? I like it. Styles went to school at Stanford, so, you know, so she's probably exposed to it more than I am. Yeah, I don't like their, they're really like clean, clean vineyards, you know, like very lines. I don't know how to explain. I like the wine, though. like the wine. I don't know. It's also like so expensive over there, right? What the hell are we talking? We live in New York. Anyway, now I'm going to get someone to be like, you hate Napa. hate you. You know, what are you gonna do? I gotta be honest sometimes. You know what I'm saying? Got to be honest sometimes. At Clefts Road in. On the Twitter said, cooking issues, any advice or techniques for roasting raw peanuts to then be milled into peanut butter and what temperatures? Well, okay. So the thing about peanuts. The thing about peanuts. This is another one of those, one of those, uh, Deez nuts questions. I love, like, anytime, like, I wish every wheat word has some sort of like nut related question, right? nets, these nets. Okay. And you know what? Like, that's probably the best, one of the best songs. That's not, there's so many good songs on that album, but Stas, you're not a big fan of that whole genre. Even though you're from that area. Is that why you don't like it? No, I just don't like it. Just don't like it. Not my kind of music. None of those? No Dre, no Snoop, no, nothing. But you're also not an East Coast rap person either. don't like rap. Wow. Wow. I don't how the heck we hang out. Okay. So, the issue with making peanut butter is you're going to want a fairly high oil nut, right? So that leaves out the absolute royalty of peanuts. God's peanut, which is the Virginia peanut, which is a variety. And I've said this before on the show. If you have not gone out and purchased high quality, roasted, salted, please get the salted. Please, for God's sakes, get salted, salted. Don't get any flavors on it though. These guys who make these Virginia peanuts, a lot of them, they make all these ones with flavors because they think that you need to flavor it, but Virginia peanut. The texture of a Virginia peanut in the size and the way it explodes in your mouth when you bite it does not require any sort of crazy flavoring. It requires simply salt and your mouth to eat

[24:22] and a fist to shovel them into your face because that's what you're

[24:26] going to want to do with them. But Virginia peanut, uh, even though it is the best possible peanut that I've ever had. Like by far, like so far and away above any other, uh, variety, it's a variety, they can be grown elsewhere other than uh, Virginia, but they're just called Virginia Peanuts and, you know, that's where I get where I get most of them. I don't know where most of them are grown, but just, I mean, blows the rest, they cost more, and they're worth it. here's what's going to happen. You're gonna go on the, I hope, you're gonna go on the internet. I have, but like, but some people they don't know. They don't know. Go on the internets. You're going to look at it, and you're going to say, why the hell does this peanut cost so much, and then you're going to get it, and you're going to

[25:01] say this. Oh, that's gonna be it, right? That's what I did. Oh, okay. So anyway, so don't get those for peanut butter because that's a waste anyway of the amazing texture. And the Virginia peanut, I think, doesn't have as kind of a high oil content. If you're going to want something higher, like a Spanish peanut or something like that in oil. I would recommend roasting. If you're going to make peanut butter, you can put the salt in later, so it's not a problem. Um, but everyone seems to say to roast it at 350 Fahrenheit, which, oh, man, I should have converted that to Celsius because

[25:32] at Clefts is in Japan, I think. Anyway. Um, for like 15 or 20 minutes, um, as opposed to in the shell, the, you know, the peanut board and all that recommends going for 30

[25:42] to 35 minutes at that same temperature, 350. However, they don't tell you the real secret of roasting a peanut

[25:49] in shell. This doesn't apply at class for peanut butter. Oh, and by the way, if you have a peanut that doesn't have as much oil. It's a simple matter when you're grinding nut butters to add a little bit of oil to it. And we used to do it all the time when we were doing it. For instance, we would get California almonds, no fence because I've had some good ones. Wyath, you know, from labor, his his grandpa's an almond farmer and he got some really good nuts, good nuts. But the thing is, that majority of the California almonds that you get are some variety that has a very low oil content because I guess

[26:20] I think that's what Americans want. Like as opposed to Marconas, where you can see the freaking, like, oil on them. So delicious. But they, so those nuts, the, you know, the average, those nuts, the, uh, the average California almond

[26:33] there, uh, is almost worthless to make uh, butter's out of because it has so low oil unless you add back a

[26:39] lot. Even pecans, which are fairly high oil, we would have to add some oil. Remember that? when we were making all that stuff, we'd have to add some back to it. We would save a little bit of the last batch and make it kind of like trying to get a perpetual motion nut machine out of it. And we used to pre-grind it and then put it in a Santa to get a really, which is, you know, a Melangere kind of

[26:56] take, oh, you know, Italy, Italy, you know, like a doll, Italy thing. Anyway, from India. And we used to get really good, really, really good textured nut

[27:06] butters, and we would spin them in the centrifuge and get even better, awesome textured nut butters. We used to roast them all beforehand. But anyway, so but none of that is going to help you if you want to put, like, do you like eating peanuts in the shell? I don't like nuts so much. don't like peanuts. Freaking God. What about you guys in the engineering booth over there? Are you a fan of the shell, the in shell peanut? Oh definitely. Yeah, baseball style, you know, out there shelling in the freaking nutshells are everywhere. I like anything where you're supposed to make a mess and there's chaff everywhere, right? Yeah. Yeah. I don't like when people eat the peanuts on the subway like that, though. No, no, they should be shot in the face. Yeah, right. I don't mean a lot of violent things. I shouldn't say that. That's a turn of phrase I use not on the air typically. But what I mean is, is they're bad people. No, not bad. They're rude. not thoughtful people. I take that back. But I said, that's not right. Anyway, but my point is, is that you should not. don't like people eating any freaking thing on the subway at all. No. I don't want to see people. I mean, look, if you need to take a sip of water, no problem, but I don't want, like, I don't know, I don't want. I got a baby that needs to breastfeed. You know what, Stas? You're such a free. See what I'm saying, people? Anyways, my point is I don't like, I don't like to, I don't like, you know what I really hate? I hate the, I hate like the, like the takeout food container open in the subway and the entire subway smells like takeout. the egg rolls next to me yesterday. So gross. Yeah, it's always like the high like vinegar sauces and stuff. You can smell the fried goods. You can smell all over the thing or like subway sandwiches. I see that a lot. They're freaking messy. They're messy people anyways. Just don't do it, right, Joe? Just don't do it. No way. How do we even go? Oh, wait, wait, 5 minutes. Yeah, wait. when you're when you're outside or sitting at a picnic bench outside? Like, like, the, the, the peanuts in the shell? Anyway, the worst, though, is when someone hands you one and they're not salted. Don't you hate that? I hate that. One salt on those suckers. Yeah, definitely. So here's how you do it. If you want to salt the nuts before you roast them. The simple kind of boneheaded way without technology is to just soak it in a salt brine for a long time,

[29:15] then, you know, rinse them off a little bit and roast them, right? That'll work. Oh, sorry. Dehydrate first, below roasting temperature because if you don't get the moisture back out before you roast it, you're not going to be able to get all the moisture out before it gets too brown,

[29:27] right? So you need to take them back down to a normal kind of ambient moisture content at a

[29:31] low non-roasting temperature. Either in a dehydrator or on a super low oven with the lid, lid, with the door open with a, with a towel, you know how you do if you don't have a dehydrator, and let them really dry out before you roast it proper at like

[29:45] 350. But the baller, really bitty, biddily, biddily baller way to do it, is to throw the peanuts and a brine and whatever other flavors you want into your vacuum machine and do rapid infusion into the

[29:57] peanuts and you can infuse them almost instantly. So you don't have to wait for the stuff to soak through like you would with a normal

[30:03] bride that we have to wait hours for the for the brine to make it through. So then you could do, you could make your brine, uh, suck a huge vacuum, uh, let the air back in,

[30:11] boosh, the brine will be pushed into the peanut, dehydrate, uh, you know, in a low

[30:15] oven until you break one open field, make sure it's dehydrated, and then roast it off, and you're good. Oh, we have a collar, collar, you're on the air. Mr. Dave Arnold. Howdy. Jeremy Bullfrog, how are you, sir? Hey. Doing well. How's how's it down in Miami land? Uh, it's a bombing 81 degrees? Nice, nice. What's up? Uh, just called the chat. When can I get my hands on one of those sears all, sir? Well, so we are still making them by hand in the basement of the lab at 54

[30:51] Eldridge. So right now. teeny little elves with glasses and tweezers are assembling them as we speak. I like to think of Piper as an elf with glasses and tweezers. But yeah, so literally that's what we're that's what we're doing. So right now we're, we, right now we only have a couple, we only have a couple that we're using for shooting because we're doing the, we're finishing the Kickstarter shoot on

[31:14] Thursday, and it's going to go up on, uh, on Black Friday, Black Friday. But Miss your Bullfrog, you are definitely on the list. You are on... So what you're saying is I have to send Santa Claus a letter and proclaim my love for all things that heat stuff up very

[31:31] hot. Yes, yes, yes, that's true. No, and also like, well, here's a good question. So, technically, in a food truck, you're allowed to have the handheld propane tanks technically. Are you asking me or are you telling me? Because I sure as hell don't know. I was asking. Yeah, I was asking. you know, I don't know. But the, yeah, so when are we looking at delivery on this thing? April. We're going to try to get April? Yeah, so we're the Kickstarter will be over right around the Christmas time and then we're looking for hopefully and really that soon, huh? Wow, we're going to be busy. But the ones that we make now, you know, the proto ones are literally, they're all welded by hand in the

[32:10] basement, and so they're, what's the, what's the PC term now budget, their budget. Um, not the materials, just, you know, the workmanship. Uh, and then, but we're going to get them actually made, you know, for real in, um, we don't know where. We have a couple factories we're looking at, but we're gonna get them made for beers. So what you're saying is for real, for meal, they're being made in China in some basement by teeny little Chinese elk.

[32:34] Uh, yeah, could possibly be made uh, in India by small Indian elves as well. It's not sure because both China, I mean, India for many years was kind of the stainless, the issue is, is that, you know,

[32:47] I, we can get fairly competitive price on like the high, the high tech stuff, like the, like the insulation and the, and the, um, and the mesh that we use, but, um, stainless fabrication is just, you're completely priced out of existence in, uh, in the

[33:04] US for this kind of a thing. And so we're, you know, that's the kind of stuff that traditionally you would get a

[33:10] lot, and like a lot of barware is made in India, but over the past decade or so, China has really kind of rocketed forward to

[33:18] challenge, and I think they've superseded India in terms of their stainless manufacturing, at least in terms of what's imported into the

[33:23] US and the cookware department. So it's, it's a question of which, which one, um, you're gonna go to, but it's just phenomenally, you know, the tooling

[33:32] costs and everything are phenomenally expensive. And since we don't know that we can make enough of them to afford the initial kill on the initial cost on the tooling for

[33:42] a US operation on that, we just don't know if we can do it. We looking to hopefully assemble here, though. It's just going to go bonkers. I mean, you're going to put that thing up and it's just going to exceed anything that I think you ever could have imagined, you know? Well, from your lipstick, God's ears, brother, from your lips to God's ears. But don't worry, if you want look, look, you know, Jeremiah, old friend

[34:01] of uh, like old friend of the blog, back in the blog days, uh, you know, at the French culinary institute. So, you know, I believe I I believe I sculled with with you guys up in the lab at one point. You did. And also, if you remember, you were the one that made us test out whether or not agave syrup was

[34:19] indeed did indeed make a difference in margaritas. Yeah, I certainly just wanted to drink margaritas that day. I was a little hung over and I was like, let me just throw this out there. Well, I'll be drinking margaritas. It's going to just, you know, it's going to turn this class up a notch. Yeah, it's true. Did I ever tell you that I found out that I figured out the science behind why they're so different? Um, I believe we were having cocktails uh, during ICC, and um,

[34:46] you, you did, um, you did lay that theory on, and uh, I'm

[34:51] going to touch it out of my own. I'm a big margarita fan. Yeah, well, I'll do I'll do my own research and we'll compare notes. All right. I'll tell you what I think, just for the benefit of the folks out there. The agave is extremely high in fructose. And fructose is interesting as opposed to sucrose in that its sweetness hits you right

[35:10] away and then leaves very quickly. Uh, so, um, what if you use agave, uh, you're using something that's very high in fructose. So when you drink the margarita, you get a real hit of sweet right away, but it doesn't linger, whereas the lime lingers. So you're not left with a cloying sweetness. You left with this kind of lingering lime flavor in the margarita. There's still some backbone of sucrose there from the quantro, but like the initial kapau hit of the sugar that you've added is in a fructose form, which seems what we thought seemed to work well in the margaritas back in the day. my theory. welcome to it. All right. All right. Well, you're on the list. We'll be telling you when you get an order in. Can you just put an order in for a margarita pizza and after the show, just eat that for me. So I feel like I'm part of the crew. Well, I'll tell you what, we're going to do a food and wine shoot, but next week, I will, I will, you will be an official in absentia crew member here and we will order a margarita

[36:10] pizza. I pound it for you. All right, brother. Hammer. Bye. Take care, guys. Thank you. All right, cool. Talk to you soon. All right, now, what are we talking about? I don't know, who the hell knows what I'm talking about? Alex wrote in. last week about Friars, and I gave a long spiel about how, you know, they might void the

[36:30] the insurance in your house and that they they could have safety issues and go, and apparently, uh, I mean,

[36:37] I frankly, I don't frighten myself. You convinced yourself, yeah. Yeah, I'd already purchased my new deep fryer for my, you know, my house, but look, it's kind of like who I am. It's like, you know, like that's, you know, whatever. Anyway, so here's what he wrote back. Hello, Dave. So last week you answered my email about fryers and my wife skipped past your comment that a fryer is a good idea for cooking. Shouldn't skip that part. You know what I mean? And leaped on the burning down the house prospects. Valid point. Your wife has valid point. So a large deep fryer in the home no longer appears to be a viable option. As I've never seen a countertop deep fryer with recovery times useful for frying, it looks like I'm back to

[37:11] stock pots in Dutch ovens. While the thermal mass of cast iron is appealing. I've seen some sources online that iron will react with the oil, degrading the quality or imparting off flavors. Is there any truth to this? Yes. Also, what is the chemistry beyond oxidation going on in the fry oil that makes it

[37:25] break down and turn? Alex. Okay, look. Before I, before I get into it, let me, uh, let me just say, uh, I looked

[37:36] around and there is, I forget whether or not you said you lived in an apartment or you live in a house, right?

[37:41] Because one of the things I've always maintained is that if you live in a house with an outdoor space,

[37:45] like that's where you should put your fryer, right? And there's a company from Homer, Louisiana, these guys are crazy. They're crazy. They're called RNV, RNV, like RV, like recreational vehicle, but not recreational vehicle, like R and

[37:59] Ampersand, V, works in Homer, Louisiana. Their website is Cajunfryer.com. So you already know it's going to be good. The website, website, like Cajun Fryer. How could that be bad? And, uh, these guys sell, it's intended for home, right? Which means it's not going to avoid your homeowner's warranty because it's intended for home, a real honest to God, uh, outdoor, so it's got a cover on it, a propane fired tube,

[38:27] uh, a deep fryer with a cold zone. It's freaking nuts. It' awesome. It's not even that expensive compared to other commercial stuff and it's meant for home. So you're good to go. You just have to fire it up, not inside. It's not meant to go inside. These guys also have some insane griddles. They also make a crazy pressure smoker that looks like a giant autoclave and uses like burbling percolated water. I don't think the pressure's that high. I couldn't figure out from their documentation because they don't tell you how high the pressure is. how high it is, and I could have calculated if I knew exactly the height of the water that they're pushing through to generate the pressure, but I couldn't say,

[39:00] whatever, I couldn't do it. But those guys are genuine nut jobs making those fryers. And so I would go to them. Another thing I should tell you is that, um, I also forget whether or not you said that you're good with building things or

[39:14] not. Do you remember? I remember stuff. I don't remember Um, what you can do is, um, what you can do is build your own fryer, and I've done this. So what you, here's some here's some basic, basic math for you. My fryer, uh, or the one I just threw it out, but the fryer that I had in the fryer that I'm going to get, um, has approximately 90,000 BTUs for about um, 5 gallons of oil, about

[39:42] 35, £40 of oil. And what that means is you're looking at around 18,000 BTUs per

[39:50] gallon and that equals about 5.2 kilowatts. That is a freaking lot. Out of a, and, you know, as you rightly say, home fryers, they don't have really the ability to heed that much because you're looking at roughly 1500 watts max,

[40:04] one. 5 kilowatts. If you have a 220 circuit, then you can, you could probably boost that to about 3 kilowatts. Now you're getting close to the amount of power you need to heat a full gallon of oil. So here's what you could do if you're handy. You could buy a temperature controller, buy two, right? You want, uh, you don't need PID. don't want PID. You want what's called a bang bang controller. Something it turns the heater on and then turns the heater off when you're done. Okay? Strap, uh, one of the uh, strap a control, uh, bulb or

[40:35] a, uh, uh, uh, so we're, thermocouple directly to a heating um. Oh, go on uh mcmaster.com, get the longest, you're gonna need 220 for this, not 110, 220. Get the longest bendable immersion heater that you can get at the highest power that your 220 circuit can deliver,

[40:53] right? Now, you want to bend, you got to get a pot, you want a pot that's tall, fairly

[40:58] tall, uh, for its uh, for its size, right? And then you're going to put a grate, a rack in it. You're gonna want to bend like special legs for the rack so that the rack sits fairly high in the pot,

[41:10] right? Below that's going to be your cold zone, right? And then, you know, a couple inches. Give yourself. Then you're going to rest the tube heater. The longest one you can do. You bend it into something that fits into the pan. The reason why you want it long is you want the longest, the biggest surface area possible. If you really have skills, you could put fins on it, but don't worry about it. Bend it up, out, you have a thermocouple that measures the oil temperature and then a safety one strapped onto it to shut the thing off. Make sure it's bang, bang. As soon as the oil temperature drops, you want it to go on full force. You don't want any PID action because it's going to slow down your recovery rate. Then you can do things like measure before you start frying with it. How, you got to be careful. If you're worried about electrocuting yourself, don't do this. I mean, this is not safe. This is just something you can do at home. Anyways. Uh, I've done it before and you can make a relatively decent uh, deep fryer, if you, with a cold zone, if you have, uh, if you're handy, if you're not worried about things, and, well, of course you are, though, because if your wife doesn't want you to deep fryer, she probably also doesn't want you

[42:10] to, to be bending tubular immersion heaters and, uh, and hooking them up on your stuff, but whatever. a good project. Stas is shaking your head and saying that I'm a jerk. Okay, uh, back onto uh, the pots. If you have dings in the enamel, you're going to have some iron, iron is reactive. It's not nearly as bad as copper, copper is like the ultimate enemy. I mean, if you think about it, what happens, old commercial deep fryers were regular steel and not stainless, and you would get a layer of polymerized oil on the steel that would just never go away, and then that

[42:41] would, um, that would kind of protect it from further degradation. But in general, you're going to want to go stainless. Enamel should work fine. You don't really care about how much heat is going to build up because you're using the thermal mass of the oil. You're not really storing so much energy in the cast iron. So I wouldn't worry about that too much. So I would also recommend going online. It's a little bit outdated, and getting a PDF copy of the Egan Press, which is put out by the American

[43:06] Association of serial chemists, fats and oils books, it's extremely readable, and they have a whole section on deep frying. So, uh, you know, basically from them, what's going on is uh, hydrolysis in the fat oil, so water is coming out of the fat oil and the water, especially those high temperatures, is uh, is causing breakdown, of the fat into free fatty acids, uh, you know, which are, you know, then cause oil

[43:31] breakdown. And so, you know, hydrolysis from water is one of your enemies. Oxidation is one of your enemies and this stuff's accelerated at

[43:40] higher, all the stuff's accelerated at higher temperature. Polymerization of the oil molecules is another enemy. And then also as you fry more, especially at higher temperatures on a pan, you're going to have food particles falling

[43:52] in a pot rather. You can have food particles falling to the bottom. Since you are supplying the heat from the bottom. The hottest part of the oil is exactly where you don't want it to be, where all the settled crap is. And so typically what happens is, is you'll get very fast oil breakdown. You also, because you don't have a high enough power to recover fast enough, your oil, you're going to be constantly overheating

[44:15] it, and even minimal overheating of oil is incredibly bad for the life and the taste of the oil that you're using for frying.

[44:25] So, you know, that's just kind of a general range of kind of what's going on and how you're getting

[44:29] shafted. Uh, like I said, best meeting you started again. Stas, please. Like I said, the best way around, uh, you know, the best way to help yourself, even in a home frying situation, is to go to a commercial supplier, go to someone who supplies restaurants and get commercial grade frying oil where they've added,

[44:51] uh, they've added antioxidants to it. They've removed the fatty acid components that are the most likely to degrade

[44:59] quickly, and they also, um, they sometimes add anti-foaming agents, which also prevent the oil from breaking down. And so that professional fry oil is so much better than

[45:11] the, than the stuff you can get at the supermarket that uh, that, that Stas and I have considered actually just buying a bunch of it and selling it to people like, like we know what we're doing because it's so much better. You have to buy it in 5 gallon increments. So if you're using it, you know, relatively quickly, store it away from light,

[45:28] uh, it shouldn't be a problem. They come in plastic cube, they come in like square cardboard. Everyone's seen these on the street. When you pass a, like a, like a fry joint, you know, like or, you know, whatever, place that uses a lot of fryers. You see them on the on the curb there. cardboard cubes with the plastic cube tainer in the middle of them. And that stuff's just fantastic. So if you get a hold of that, your fry game's gonna go up immensely right away. What do you think's does? I was like, I don't care. don't care. Two more babies. She just said, oh, I'll start thinking about the breastfeeding. And people, I want you to know, this lady has a scarf over the baby's face. So Nastasia needs to step back. But the, uh,

[46:12] so today, by the way, I'll just say this as we're going out. Today we're going to go to the food and wine and we're doing a Thanksgiving shoot with the Sears all, right? We're going to do some sort of fancy tech. I guess we're not supposed to spoil it, right? But it's a similar technique to the one that I did back in the day for the

[46:27] hamburger with the exploding ketchup in the middle. Remember that with the shot where it's like... for eater way back in the day. But I'll give a little bit of a secret. What we did is we made Parker House rules that are filled with stuffing. So it's just a thin layer of Parker House roll with stuffing on the inside. Those are pretty good, right size? Yeah, they were good. And remember, oh, did we get another Thanksgiving question? Oh, I looked up the turkey. The one that Piper gave you last night. Yeah. So we had a question last week about using hydrogen peroxide, H202 to disinfect

[46:58] the turkey that was being cooked at low temperature from it was based on a blog post by Simon Quellan Field. And I looked it up and the guy coats his entire turkey with bacon, by the way. Entire freaking turkey is like a, is like, you know, like a pie is like a lattice. This is like a lattice of bacon. Uh, and it's extremely low temp. He put in the H202. I was not able to find any references to whether or not that would affect the flavor of the meat in

[47:23] any way. It's used in water, uh, and presumably it'll all, you know, it'll react and you won't get it, but I don't know whether

[47:29] they, like the extreme oxidation reactions are going to do anything to the flavor of the skin or anything.

[47:34] I wasn't able to find any references. And since I don't have a kitchen, I wasn't able to just soak a piece of chicken or something in

[47:40] H202 and then cook it off and see whether there's any residual effects. But rest assured, we will try this at some point. I feel like we got one more question and stuff. So we have we have a couple seconds. Wait, we have one in from at Raider Nicole. was the one. Cooking issues. How do you prevent warmed over flavors and reheated chicken? Uh, and it just says marinade, baked or pan fried as questions. What you do is store the product away from oxygen. It's oxidation. It's oxidative rancidity that's causing the warmed over flavors. So you can reheat gently in zippies, ziplocs that you have gotten all the oxygen out of. and then just hit it with high heat to crisp off or do whatever you want. But the enemy there is storing it, allowing it to cool and rest in contact with oxygen in the air. And remember to get your Thanksgiving questions in because next week is last cooking issues before

[48:40] Thanksgiving, cooking issues.

[48:48] Thanks for listening to this program on heritageradionetwork.org. You can find all of our archived programs on our website or as podcasts in the iTunes

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