[0:00] Today's program has been brought to you by S. Wallace Edwards and Sons, 3rd generation

[0:04] cure masters producing the country's best dry cured and aged hams, bacon, and sausage. For more information, visit Surreyfarms.com. You are listening to Heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushway, Brooklyn. If you like this program, visit heritageradionetwork.org for 1000s more.

[0:29] Cooking yourself.

[0:40] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold. Your host of cooking issues coming to you live from Aberta's Pizzeria on the Heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from around 12 to around one o'clock. Nastasia the Hammer Lopez, a little bit late to the studio today, a victim, I think, of the New York City subway system, but call your questions too. 718-497-2128. That 718-497-2128. And, uh, don't worry, Nastasia should be here shortly. Have some questions already in, so let me just take care of some of

[1:15] those. Um, The other John Stewart writes in. Dave Nastasia at all. Regarding Steve Jenkins from Fairway. And who does he sound like? Those you might remember that last week, the program was brought to you by Fairway? Who's the program brought to who's doing it today? It's uh, S. Wallace Edwards and son. Oh, yeah, yeah. S. Wallace Edwards, home of one of my favorite American country hands. Now, you know, Sam Edwards, who is, I don't know, like 1000000000th

[1:42] generation ham curing guy. He, uh, you know, he, he and I have this one

[1:48] disagreement, and every time I mention him on the air, and every time I see him in person, I say this. He markets his, one of his excellent, um, you know, uh, at least one year old age kind of, you know, not semi-ambient cured uh, hands, meaning that uh, the

[2:02] refrigerated um, during the curing, the actual curing process so that they don't spoil, but then are allowed to age ambiently, you know, for upwards of a month. Uh, which I think are, you know, delicious. Uh, and he makes them actually with heritage uh, foods, uh, what's the word I'm looking for? Heritage breed pork. And they're delicious, but he markets those as Suriano, Surrey being the county in Virginia, where they are, you know, you know, kind of classic, you know, one of the classic places for American country hands. By the way, all American country hams, almost all American country hams are fundamentally derived from the culture of Thai water, Virginia, because it started

[2:40] there, and then, you know, remember, like, everything over, everything from there over, like, through Kentucky was Virginia back in the day. And most of these, you know, a lot of these families have curing routes that date back

[2:51] to, um, at or prior to the American revolution. So, I mean, it's there's a long history of it there. I't know where that can start with. So anyway, so he's calling it Surreyano as like Serrano and Surrey because, you know, well over a decade

[3:06] ago, gosh, it's got to be well over a decade ago. You know, uh, you know, he decided that uh, the kind of hams that

[3:13] he was producing in America, uh, were not receiving their just due and thought they were most like uh, some of the

[3:22] mountain hams. Serrano just means mountain ham, you know, in Spain. And so kind of, you know, was kind of joining the idea of this American ham with kind of this quality of mountain ham that

[3:32] he had had in Spain. And, uh, you know, my feeling has always been, uh, American ham is American ham, sell it as American

[3:40] ham, and Sam Edwards, uh, you know, as much as I love and respect, uh, his

[3:45] products, and, you know, is a good guy. Just call it American. What do you think? Anyone? Anyone? No, no, no one cares. Only me. But anyways, that wasn't what we were talking about. We were talking about, what were we talking about? We were talking about, oh, Steve Jenkins last week from Fairway, who was our sponsor last week. And we'd had a little discussion about, like, what voiceover actor he sounded like, and so the other John Stewart writes in, regarding Steve Jenkins from Fairway, and who does he sound

[4:12] like? To me, he sounds like Alec Baldwin, who does lots of voiceover work, which is

[4:17] weird, because you mentioned Alec Baldwin only minutes later, and it didn't make, and I didn't make the connection. So perhaps you disagree, I threw audio of the 2 into this link, pretty similar, but perhaps not who Dave was thinking of. And then there's a lake, which maybe we can play later, which playing, you know, Steve Jenkins side by side with Alec Baldwin, or maybe we can just call that up somehow. And you know what? John, you're dead on, man. That's exactly what it is. It's Alec Baldwin, but it's kind of one of those things. Voiceovers freak me out a little bit. Like, you know, I was watching this stuff and, you know, commercials come on because I have a TV now and the kids watch it. I watch it. Come on, please. But the, um, commercials come on. Oh, my God, is that Magnum PI? Is Tom Selleck doing voiceover work? I mean, it's not like there's, you know, and Morgan Freeman, by the way, I don't know if any of you guys watch the Olympics. Morgan Freeman, literally, like, I think he was like sitting around on call waiting for people to win medals because he would congratulate them on the medal that they won like 10 seconds

[5:10] after, or did he record every permutation of every American winning every medal?

[5:15] He's like, congratulations on your bronze. you know, just, anyway, whatever. voiceovers. amazing. So John, you're totally right. Alec Baldwin is the call, Alec Baldwin, of course, whose voice is amazing. But John also has a question. I've been bagging all of my low temp food using your Ziploc method for years. The food saver vacuum never looked like it had much advantage over the Ziploc technique and doesn't really seem to pull a hard vacuum. Therefore, it never seemed useful for bagging where you want to use a vacuum to pull your marinade into a product, for example. But I just ran across the ThriftyVac, which you can see on the YouTube. It's a thrifty VAC, I think, one word in VAC is VAC. Thriftiest, though, thrifty, as in someone who is thrifty. And it's cheap. It's on the amazon.com, and you can look, it's like 22 bucks. Fundamentally, well, I'll finish the question. And it looks like this might be able to pull a harder vacuum, then he's saying, I guess, presumably, than a food saver. Do you think this looks useful as a poor person's vacuum

[6:14] chamber, or is it not likely to pull a hard enough vacuum to be any better than the Ziploc method, thanks to the other John Stewart? Yeah, okay. So I took a look at this device. And for those of you out there who, you know, haven't seen it or, you know, aren't on the internets right now, although how you listen to

[6:29] us if you're not on the internets, um, the, what it is, is, is it's a one-way valve and a little kind of like a, like a boxy piece of plastic and a one-way valve that you put onto a large bag, you know, ziploc or other,

[6:43] uh, and it punctures the bag, and then it comes with a little, little, uh, you know, Like a sucking device, almost like a larger version of a vacuum van pulling thing. And you stick a ziploc inside of the other bag that's almost seals. So it's the same as the as the technique, the water technique, by the way, which is what I use at home, because I don't have a vacuum machine at home, is I see almost entirely seal a

[7:08] vacuum Ziploc bag. Ziploc. By the way, when you buy a Ziploc bag. First of all, like, blad bags work, I'll admit, but like, I always buy brand name bags because off brands suck. Never get the ones that have 2 layers of plastic, get the single layer, get also the freezer

[7:23] ones because they're much better gas barriers than the regular ones, and never get the ones with the slidy doodles. I do not trust the ceiling capability of the sliding doodles. Get the ones that have the old school, just zipper, you know, just not zipper, but like just, you know, the seal without the slide doodle, right? So you seal it almost all the way up. Uh, and then you just leave the very corner unsealed. You put your finger in it, lift it by that corner. It now forms a diamond, and you immerse it under the water. As you immerse underwater slowly, you kind of, you know, force the air out from around

[7:53] it, and and presumably your product is surrounded by some form of liquid on the inside of the bag, oil, sauce, whatever.

[7:59] And, uh, and the error once excluded, never comes back in because the water, the pressure of the water excludes

[8:05] it and then add right as the tip of the bag goes underneath, you seal it with your, with

[8:09] your, uh, you pinch it sealed and it's done. And this is the way I do almost everything, it makes a fantastic seal. It doesn't create a vacuum, but it does exclude air, which is 99% of what we want to

[8:20] do when we're doing low temperature cooking unless you're doing a vacuum effect. Okay. So what this thing does is it allows you to put a ziploc inside of another bag with a

[8:30] one-way valve. Uh, but in other in other ways, it's similar. You leave a little corner of the ziploc unpressed, you pull the vacuum, you push the seal shut while it's inside of another

[8:39] bag, and then you pull it out and it's sealed. It's not really that kind of a vacuum pump that they're using, that piston vacuum pump is never going to pull

[8:47] a decent vacuum. Anyway, so we have a caller. I'm gonna get the collar and then I come back and talk more about the this vacuum machine and kind of what I think it's good for and what it doesn't do. Anyway, color, you're on the air. Hello, this is Martin from Vienna calling. Oh, hey, how you doing? I'm fine, thank you. How are you? Doing well. I love you. I've only been to your town for a couple of days, but it seemed very nice when I was there. Yeah, it is. Have you been to a Bristol stand? Did you did the famous cheese sausage? No, no. The only, so I was there literally. I was there for EC, the company. I was doing work with them with rapid infusion, and I was only there for, I was only there for like literally like a day and a half , not even 2 full days. The only thing I got to do. We went to we had a, we had a, you know, schnitzel at the, what's the name of the place that's, it's a couple blocks from

[9:42] the, It a couple blocks from the opera house. It's like famous for its schnitzel. What the heck's the name of it? Like O Faire something. There is Fiegel Miller, where you get the huge ones. I don't think it was that. Or the other one is the Placuta. I have to remember. But it was good, you know, with the lemon wedge and everything. I enjoyed the Viennese potato salad. I did get to visit the market, that long outdoor market that you guys have. What that called? Yeah, national. Yeah, national. That was really cool. And like there's a lot of people there selling, uh, because I only wanted Austrian products because why would I buy a different product when I'm in Austria, right?

[10:18] So I went through there searching various different kinds of cured meats and

[10:23] uh, cheeses and and different products and thought it was uh, it was really nice. But no, I did not get to have the cheese sausage next time. Well, no, I did get to have. No, I didn't. No, we had a sausage. No, I did because when I showed up at lunch for the 1st day, I showed up and like had to go right to work from the airplane and they were like, what do you want for lunch?

[10:42] I was like, worst. And so they brought a bunch of one. I think one of them was cheese. It was good, but I can't recall the name because they just put it in front of me. They didn't tell me what I was eating. But there was one with cheese in it. What's the name of it? What's the name of it? Oh, yeah, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What does Kriner mean? Well, uh, Kreiner, uh, it means it means the sausage coming from Krein, which is uh, in Slovenia called

[11:07] Kranskagora. So that's where the original sausage is coming from. And then the Austrian added the cheese to it. And uh, made it a cheese kind of, so cheese kind of cheese sausage. Well, if my memory serves me, that was it was a good call adding the adding the quesa. Yeah. Okay, so what's your question? Yeah, yeah, it was. But I have a, I have a question about uh, uh, hydrocolor is about

[11:33] celotine, actually. Uh, because I'm trying to do uh, kind of uh, uh, vodka panna cotta. Right. And, uh, I have problems to get it like stiff freely. So, and I know, of course, that that, uh, adding alcohol to gelatin, uh, decreases the, the stability of the

[11:53] shell you have in the end, but, uh, I just, when I, when I, when I get it lower, uh, and the, the gelatin sets really nicely, uh, you cannot taste the vodka anymore.

[12:07] So, and my one, uh, my question is about how, uh, high can I get that, uh, still, if you have like a ratio that, uh, I can still have

[12:17] a set gelatin with, uh, with vodka? Well, most, um, most sources that you

[12:26] read, usually for, uh, and and it's not really based in any sort of reality, right? They put, they put the upper, it's based on kind of rules of thumb. They basically upper limit for most alcohol sensitive

[12:39] hydrocoloids, and most of them are because, remember, it's not water, right? And the hydrocollies require water to do their work. They usually place the upper limit for normal function somewhere in the range of 20%. somewhere in that range. So in general, when you're using... Okay, that would be like the pure, pure alcohol uh, range or the vodka, like 20% uh, pure, pure. But that's, that's like the upper limit. But like the more alcohol that you add to any system, right, the

[13:11] more, uh, it depends on the hydrocolloid too, the more hydrocolloid that you're, you're going to have to add to get the, the

[13:16] same, um, result. So, like, give me your give me your recipe. How much vodka is in there. as a percentage of the tools? Uh, there was about like, uh, I I took uh, 22 parts cream and one point uh, part uh, vodka. So, so, 13rd was vodka, which would be like 16 a bit less, though, almost something like 20%, uh, uh, alcohol, I guess, in the end. So, that should be fine.

[13:45] Maybe... Cream isn't all water either, right? So you got, you got cream, which is not all water, although it's not, it's the, it shouldn't affect it the same way. But, um, what and and what percentage more than the normal gelatin did you use? I just like, I use the kind of sheets that I would normally use, like, uh, uh, I don't know, 6

[14:15] feet on, on, on half a liter. So, I mean, I would just, I mean, if you haven't tried up, like, and it was too, it was too soft, right? Or did it not set it all? Yeah. Was it, was it? It was too stop because my, my, my idea is that in the end

[14:30] I, I put a liquid shell of uh, of coffee in it. So basically it's a reconstruction of a, of a white Russian, uh, and, uh, whenever I try to get

[14:40] uh, the, the liquid shell in it, uh, eventually it would break uh, because it's just not brittle enough, uh, so that, or not, not, not stiff enough. Right, a couple of things you can do. You can up the gelatin concentration, right? I mean, that's the 1st obvious thing to up the gelatin concentration. by like, I wouldn't, you know, don't do anything drastic, like double it because you don't have that much alcohol in it. So I would up it, I would up it like, um, I would up it like, maybe 25% or something like this and see whether or not that adds enough. Were you close to getting it? Was it close to the right texture or not? No, it I mean, it's not bad. It is, it is, it is like a set shell, but it's, it's just, it's, it's not easy to handle

[15:28] in, in, like when I try to put in the, the liquid shell itself. So, uh, I just, it, it would eventually, it would, I, I have like a failure of almost 50% of pieces when I cut

[15:40] in in cubes that would fall apart. So, and that, uh, just, it's just not stiff enough,

[15:47] maybe, maybe just to raise, uh, the, the cello thing would, would help or. Gelatin's good that way in that erasing it doesn't, so like a lot of other hydrocolloids, when you raise their percentages, you get a lot of nasty kind of textual effects and you get a lot of nasty kind of taste effects when you up

[16:05] them, to the point where you get their, like, the functionality, right? Whereas gelatin is pretty friendly that way. I mean, if it, I mean, once you start getting very high percentages on any hydrocolloid, you get a lot of flavor masking because, you know, a lot of the water, which is delivering the, like, you know, some of

[16:22] the you know, the water-based section of the flavor component. It's locked up in, uh, in a hydrocolloid matrix. And so you tend to get very poor flavor released. And the reason why gelatin is so good. And why it's using these is not just because its texture is awesome, but because it tends to melt melt at mouth temperature

[16:40] and you know, and thereby, you know, release and almost get like a, you know, 100% flavor release. The only other ones that have kind of such excellent flavor release are ones that are used in kind of very, in very low, um, quantities, like

[16:54] gelan, right? But if you were going to switch to a different gelling medium for this, like Jeland, the problem you're going to run into, is you have to,

[17:01] you have to ensure that, um, you know, you're going to have to, you're going to have to heat it to a high temperature and then get your alcohol in before it gets down at set temperature,

[17:12] right? Because it gel ends like a snapset. But the other problem is, is that really high temperatures that you need to hydrate, things like gel in, you can't get alcohol that high. Now you can get around it. I've made alcohol, fluid gels all the time with both Agar and with, and, you know, an Agar might be another thing too, because you can make Agar, you can make Agar, um, a lot softer if you put uh, locust bean gum in it or some, a modifier like that, and you can, you can get, um, you know, or

[17:36] kappa, kappa caragin and LBG is the classic one that people use to do gelatin analogs, and you might be able to harden that one up more and have, you know, uh,

[17:45] and, you know, you'll definitely know faster because it sets a lot faster than gelatin does.

[17:49] And I've done plenty of agar gels at 20% alcohol,

[17:55] plenty, because I used to do, you know, as for demos. I used to do, um, I used to do like fluid, like alcoholic fluid gels, you know, all the time that were, you know, right around 20%. So I know that, I know that that system works well, but I think the gelatin will probably work well for

[18:12] you if you just up the percentage slightly. And, well, slightly 20, 20, try 20% and see whether or not you get, because what you really want is you want it to be just at the failure point, right? You want it to hold itself. You want to be able to handle it, move it around and plate it. But you don't really want any more than that, right? And then that's what gelatin's so good at. It's its seeming delicacy, uh, when it's, you know, you know, there. But the, you know, but then you, you run into the other issues if it's breaking and and then if your kitchen's hot or whatnot, I don't know how well a control you have over the temperature in the kitchen, but, you know, when gelatin gets close to being too soft and then it gets warm. It's like, you know, you're done. You're done. You know, you're never going to be able to handle the product. But I think you should be able to do it by just by increasing at those levels. If you were saying that you were going to do straight vodka. I'm saying, well, that's, you know, problematic, but, you know, I've done plenty of, uh, you know, up to 15% alcohol with gelatin just by upping the

[19:07] gelatin. Even ones that have to withstand fairly, uh, you know, rigorous, you know, conditions like, uh, I've done carbonated alcohol, uh, regular gelatin gels up at those percentages, uh, at least

[19:20] 14 because I've done, you know, pretty high, high, uh, alcohol wines that way. But by jacking the gelatin somewhat. Yeah. By the way, when I, when I would like put the cream, the, uh, with Chelatin and, and, and floats and everything, like, still warm into a ISI, uh, and then sprite, like, to make like whipped cream,

[19:43] with the Chelatin hold the shape, or, or would it? Yeah. Well, so I mean, gelatin, by the way, also, like with cream, if you get well, like anything over about 20%, the

[19:55] cream's going to start being in danger of breaking, like that's kind of like the magic place of cream, cream liquors without any sort of added protecting things in it. You could protect the cream, obviously, uh, you know, with various agents to stop it from breaking, but, uh, including gelatin, that's what the

[20:11] comique thing is made out of. But anyway, yeah, gelatin can be used as the foaming agent in ISI with that. However, like if you wanted to hold, if you want to do, like, if you want to make this recipe in an ISI and have it hold indefinitely, really dense, dense, dense, dense texture, what percentage cream is it to the

[20:31] fluid gel? I mean, to the gel? Is it, you'd say, the third? The, uh, full, uh, what percentage cream? Is it 30 cent?

[20:41] To the what, you mean? Yeah, no, it's like, it's like 3 parts, 3 parts, uh, 2 parts vodka makes one part cream. Yep. Yeah. No, two-part cream and one part, what's going. Oh, yeah, okay, no problem. So what I would do is I would lower, I would lower the, this should be fine. Like you're down, you're down more like, you know, 15% or something like this. You should be okay just by opening the tip, but try this, right? Take your, take the, the vodka. Do, uh, make a, I think it should work at around 11%. Take let. I'll just give you some random numbers to try. Take 500 mils of water. Uh, uh, yeah, do 500 mils of water, and then, um, uh,

[21:24] 10, 10 grams of don't, you don't have to make the full recipe. I just giving you numbers that are easy to remember. 500 grams of water, 10, 10 grams of agar, cold, obviously, hydrate the, the agar, you know, whisk it in cold, bring it up to heat, simmer it for 2 minutes, temper in 500 mils of

[21:40] vodka. right? Let it set into a one% gel. It should be fairly firm, even at that, even at that 20%. It's not, you can try it at a slightly higher agar percentage, right? Now blend it in a blender. So now you have a vodka fluid gel. Now it's only 50% vodka, right? But instead of doing 2 cream, one, lean, make it a little leaner and do one to one cream with that vodka stuff in an ISI, and as long as the fluid gel worked, which I'd have to test it to make sure that exactly

[22:11] a 20 that the agar works, that is going to be dense, dense, dense. So a lot of times what I'm trying to do very dense ISDI foams, I do fluid gel reinforced cream bases and they

[22:22] work, they work really, really well. And in fact, you can do things that would normally curdle cream, like you can do lemon

[22:29] juice, and eventually it'll curdle, but because a lot of the lemon juice is locked up inside of a fluid gel, it doesn't break the cream right

[22:35] away and the stuff that's foamed out lasts like a long, long, long time. The one thing I will say is that when you're putting a fluid gel into an ISI, you

[22:45] remember it's a fluid gel. So when you, when you point the ISI down, it doesn't naturally run down to the bottom of the ISI and dispense, you have, every time you dispense it, you have to put your finger over the, uh, over the dispensing,

[22:58] um, uh, tip and and flick the canister down so that you're sure that you have all the fluid gel packed against the head so that we need dispense

[23:05] it. It's actually there. But it's a fantastic way to do reinforced creams. And I like I do reinforce creams with like very high acid fruits all the time that way. And I'm pretty sure it would work with an alcohol fluid gel as well. Okay, thank you very much. No problem. By the way, I won, I won, uh, ISI, uh, um, siphon by mentioning you. Um, because they had, they had like this, this, uh, thing before Christmas, they would give out like free, uh,

[23:37] uh, siphons. Just you have to write them why you want to use it. And I mentioned uh, because I like the ignore, uh, Dave Arnold's uh, quick infusion

[23:46] trick, and I would like to use it, and that's how I want my eyesight. Oh, beautiful. I just had another idea, by the way. You might be able to hydrate the agar in, uh, in like milk or cream, uh, and then uh, put the vodka into

[24:03] it, and dope it, and that way you wouldn't have to have all that water, but you'd have to play around with it to make sure it would work. But I think that might also be a solution. It'll stop you from having to add the extra water. But give it a shot. Try it. Okay. Yep. Thank you very much. All right, have fun with the whipper. Thank you. I will. All right, bye-bye. Okay, now back to Ustas, Stas is like... Oh, yeah, we went, we'll come back with cooking issues and Nastasia Lopez.

[25:27] Today's program has been brought to you by S. Wallace Edwards and Sons. Edward Suriano hams our aged perfection for no less than 400 days, and hickory smoked to achieve a deep mahogany color. The Edwards name is well known for its world-class aged and cured meats. Their exclusive curing and aging recipe produces a unique flavor profile that enhances the quality characteristics of

[25:57] brochure pork. Optimum amounts of pure white fat marbling contribute to a flavor that's a delicate, perfect balance between sweet and salty. For more information, visit www.surifarms.com. Wow. Jack, Jack, here, Anastasia is here. It's like crazy. Show can start now. Oh, man, you guys, you freaking guys. Although, uh, you missed. I went on a thing about the whole Soriano thing and how I feel about it, but now I can talk about the fact that I'm guessing, and I've never had this conversation, so I'm just guessing, Nastasia, do you hate the harmonica? I don't. Really? I would think you hate it because you hate things that tell stories and it's like an inherently storytelling kind of an instrument. Like, you know, kind of... It speaks from the soul. You're like, yeah, now I hate it. No, I hate it though. Yeah, yeah. So how you doing, Stas? Good. Yeah? And Jack? doing well. Yeah. So Jack, you had a question you were going to ask us, right? Yeah, we won. We wanted to know your kind of thoughts on some of these new apps coming out that are catered

[26:53] towards restaurant eaters. Like, for instance, there's one called No Wait, right? And you can you can get on a restaurant, waiting line at home with the app. Well, I mean, I love that. Yeah. Except for, you know, my, my, my, the problem, I don't know how it works because I've never used it as a, as a user, and I would like that. Imagine if you could just not admit, so I live like 2 blocks from or 3 blocks from Mission Chinese, right? Uh, which is Danny Bowen's restaurant. And, uh, you know, they don't take the reservations, uh, and the way it's like a 1000000000 years, but, you know, it would be no problem for me to just sit at home, you know, uh, you know, the wife and I drinking ourselves silly, and then waiting for, you know, them to say, you've got 10 minutes to hightail it over

[27:36] here, and I could hightail it over there. And yes, that would be a fantastic boon to someone like, like me. I don't know how they operated as a, you know, as an operator. You know, I know at the bar that a lot of times when people are on a list, they don't necessarily come back, you know, and so

[27:50] it's, um, do they have some mechanism to ensure that you're going to come back? We're interviewing them later today so we'll find out. Yeah, I mean, so, I mean, it's the kind of thing that obviously is a boon to the consumer. Uh, the question is, how hard is it going to hose, um, how hard is it going to hose the restaurants that use it? Do they have some anti-hosing mechanism in the application? I think all apps need an anti-hosing mechanism. Oh yeah, definitely. I mean, so, I mean, just to let you know, you know, we we have a lot of situations at the bar where, you know, we we, people come in, we're like, okay, we're full because we, you know, we only have seeds for like 32 or whatever. Uh, and uh, we say, okay, uh, you know, party of, you know, 5 or whatever it is, you know, we'll text you when, um, it's free, then we text them. We put a reserve sign on the seat. Now we have 5 seats empty, and it's not, it's not just that there's 5 seats empty that we're not turning money around on, although that

[28:46] doesn't hurt me deeply. The real problem is, is then people come in and they see the empty seats and they get pissed off that they can't get seated.

[28:53] You know what I mean? So it's it's tricky. It's a kind of a fine dance on how to do it. Bigger places, it's easier to deal with because they have more turnover. But I wonder how it works in smaller places. Like when you only have like 30 seats. You know, it's like, it's, it's, it's hard to ride that line properly. You know what I mean? Yep, totally But I'm interested to hear what they say. I'm interested to hear what the anti-hosing mechanism is. Yeah, right? What do you got going today, Stas? anything good? No? Absolutely. No? Absolutely not. Nope. Nothing? You know what came in yesterday? What do you mean? We got the Sears all t-shirts in yesterday. Yes, it was great. They look, although stars couldn't, didn't get a chance to see them. She had to go run an errand before they showed up. Like, the extra large is extra large.

[29:37] I'm glad because I'm nervous. We have most of our t-shirt buyers are extra larges. You could sail a tugboat into the shirt that I picked up. Do we have XXLs or are they just XLs? No, just XLs. Man, Dax, you know, so Booker and Dax named after my

[29:53] kids' booker and Dax. Dax, a small one who only wears Luchar Mats, although he forgot it this morning on the Walking the Dog. I think because I kicked him out of bed because my wife was gone, so both kids had to come out with me to walk the dog this morning. And, uh, forgot his luchador mask for the 1st, it's the 1st time I've seen him outside of the house without a luchador mask on in months, like months.

[30:14] weird, huh? I wonder whether maybe he's giving up the Luchador phase. I hope not because I haven't, you know, he hasn't had his mask yet. his custom mask. How do we get into this? What were you talking about? Oh, sure. So he was like, I don't want a series all shirt. I was like, Dax, I guarantee you we didn't order any kid sizes. I right? There's only smalls. I mean, the price would have been a lot higher if we had kid sizes, so just thinking about the company. What? Stas always tries to make it seem like I'm being an ogre for no reason. First of all, people, people, people. I was never once consulted on this. And I would have said, you know, yeah, no, we're not going to order kid sizes because it's fundamentally not that I want kids to play with. Small is not like Dax is like, he's nine. He's not like he's not like a teenager, right? Booker could wear a small. No, Dax wants to wear it around. Dax wants to wear it like in the street. Now you're saying that the ones we bought are going to shrink? No, like, there's a way to shrink shirts on purpose, right? I don't know, I don't do that kind of thing. I don't try to buy normal shirts and then shrink them down to clubware because I don't go to clubs. Um, okay. No offense, no problem clubs. So back to John Stewart's, the other John Stewarts question. So for those of you that don't remember, because it seemed like it was a long time ago, the issue is, is will this new thing, this Thrifty Vac, work, to pull a real vacuum on

[31:35] something as opposed to just using a Ziploc. My feeling is that it's not going to suck any more hardcore of a vacuum than a vacuum than can

[31:44] suck, and that it's not, it's probably useful if you want to, without having a big water bucket around to put things in a

[31:51] ziploc. But I don't think it's going to achieve much more than you can do just water dunking in a Ziploc. Um, so there you have it. But it's cheap. And so if you want to do a lot of dry bagging work of stuff in Ziploc bags, you know, maybe it would be useful, but most of the people, I looked on

[32:07] Amazon. It's got a lot of very positive reviews. But if you actually burrow into the reviews on Amazon, almost everyone who was familiar with

[32:16] the water dunk method of ziplocing was like, I don't really understand the advantages over a water dunk method on ziplocing. So I don't think it's gonna, it's not going to be there. It's not gonna be, you know, an alternative for kind of vacuum infusion, I don't think. And by the way, they, uh, you know, a couple of the, the, one of the people who did a review of it on YouTube that you sent us a link to said that, um, you know, that it's kind of turns it into a chamber vacuum machine. And it does not turn

[32:42] it into a chamber vacuum machine because the minute you displace the air out of the bag, air from the outside pushes on top of the bag. In fact, that's kind of the MO. using the bag to push on the bag, and that's how it's working. Chamber vacuum machine works entirely differently in that it just removes the air and there's no physical

[32:59] compression on the item until the air is allowed back in, right? And so that's kind of like that is the, that, that is how chamber works. This works much more in the fashion that a food saver works, except for instead of using a food saver bag, they enclose this thing in an outside bag. Now, what I do think it would be really good at probably is if you wanted to make castings, like if you wanted to do, not castings, I don't know what my brain is shot

[33:23] today. If you want to do like fiberglass work and you want to do or pre-prag work with

[33:27] like fibers and stuff, you could, you know, because one of the problems of doing, let's say you wanted to make something out of

[33:33] fiberglass and resin, right? And you want to put it over a mold, well, the question is, how do you get it to stick nicely to the mold? And, you know, a good way to do it is using kind of a backbag system where you put the entire, you put the impregnated resonant impregnated fiberglass, carbon fiber, Kevlar, whatever the hell you're using, over your mold, you put it into a vacuum machine, suck it, suck it. I think this might be a good way to do that. But that doesn't come up very often in the kitchen, does it? I mean, I used to, remember, remember the, remember the Mokumagani thing I did back in the day with the, I used vacuum bag molding for that.

[34:08] Um, but, um, that was where, you know, we took different colors of fish, layered them up with uh, translutaminates, uh, and then par froze them on a

[34:16] mold, uh, in like a wavy shape and then sliced it on, uh, on the, um, Hobart model. what is it, 3000 or 2000. Uh, meat slicer so that it looked like wood grained fish. That was a fun trick. I haven't done that in a while. You know why? Because they gave me that freaking meat slicer and I let stupidly left it at the FCI because I felt it had been there so long that they kind of

[34:36] like of stupid. I should have taken that second with me. Yeah, right. Yeah. Okay, like that would work. Anyway, uh, so, can we have something we're going to talk about, says? We had something we're going to talk about. I forget. Anyway. Joshua writes in from Switzerland regarding ice cream. Hi, Dave Anastasia. Greetings from Switzerland. I'm a big fan of your show, and Stas is a big fan of Switzerland, as it turns out, right? Oops, true. She loves it a Swiss. She loves it a Swiss. Um, but he doesn't say which Switzerland he's from. like Switzerland. I only like the Italian parts, so... Really? Like, how how like cleanly divided are the different parts of Switzerland? They all hang out in like the big cities they all hang out, right? So you get everyone in the big cities, right? Times don't really, they don't move from here, yeah. Oh, the German French do. Move everywhere. They move everywhere. So like Geneva, there's no Italian people in Geneva? Not a lot. Not that I saw. none Not one. Not one Italian speaking. They're like they're Italians. They don't leave their mother's house. Wow. Wow. All right. We'll talk about that later. Greens for Switzerland. I a big fan of your show. Lately, I've been obsessed with ice cream. I own an ice cream maker, which is able to cool to -35 Celsius. I don't know what that is in Fahrenheit. I didn't do the calculation, but just for your edification, the one I always remember, -20 Celsius is -4 Fahrenheit. So you're well into the minus range. Well, well into the minus range, probably around -20 Fahrenheit, something pretty hardcore.

[36:09] A couple of days ago, I made a whiskey ice cream on a recipe by Heston Blumenthal,

[36:16] which by the way, I looked up the Blumenthal recipe. So that what's about to happen isn't a, like whatever is about to happen, the results that Joshua had that he's not going to be happy

[36:25] with. He's going to describe him in, aren't due to a high alcohol content in the whiskey ice cream because what I saw on the internet of Heston Blumenthal, he burns the whiskey 1st to get rid of a lot of the alcohol. So we're not dealing with the softness based on a high alcohol content. Let's just get that up. I don't want anyone thinking that while I'm reading this question because that's not what's going on, right? Were you thinking that, Stas? All right. I love the ice cream maker. Okay. on a recipe with Heston Blumenthal and sage ice cream with egg, sugar, and milk custard. I let the ice cream maker precool to approximately -25 Celsius and then pour the ice cream base and let it churn. And here's the thing. Here's what you stick in your head. I let it churn for approximately 30 minutes. After that, I store the ice cream overnight in a freezer. A taste test, the next morning left me unsatisfied. The ice cream was tasty, but it seemed that 2 large ice crystals had formed because it had an unpleasant

[37:17] mouth feel and didn't feel smooth. Therefore, my questions. How does the churning time influence the development of ice crystals? Is there a minimum time which you would suggest? Do you see any flaws in my ice cream making and can you recommend any good literature on ice cream making and theoretical base?

[37:33] I've read the chapter on ice cream in the book, The Kitchen as laboratory, but need more. Thank you in advance for your help, Joshua. By the way, the word laboratory brings up. I have, so Travis Hugget, who did the photography on my cocktail book, and I, we were in the subway the other day. And when I say the other day, I

[37:49] mean, yesterday. And we had, like, seriously, the idea that could make us, like, like, the new, like, Anne Getty slash, uh, uh, what's his

[37:57] name, Wegman, the Weimeroner thing. But since we're never going to do it. I'm going to give this idea out there to somebody, now, you're going to think this is really stupid, but the more you think about it, right? The more you think about it, the better it gets ready. This could be the hottest wall and desk calendar.

[38:16] of 2015. Labs in labs. We're talking Labrador Retrievers, in laboratory situations, with lab coats

[38:27] on, labs, in labs. Now you're like, that's dumb, right? But look at this. I think it's dumb, even though I came up with the idea. And yet, if I saw that thing on Amazon for 15 bucks, I would own it right now.

[38:40] I would buy. I would pre-order that sucker right the hell now. Labs in labs. Come on, somebody do it. Here is what I want. Travis and I, we need some cut. That's all. Like, all I want, like maybe even a mention, a cut, you know, when they come with the barrels of money and drop them off at your house for having done this labs

[38:57] and lab calendar, like when you're swimming through money, just remember that as you're bailing the boat out so that you don't drown in your own money, just put one of those buckets of money, you know, our way.

[39:07] That's all I'm saying, right? That's all that's all I need. Labs and labs. Uh, so, uh, here's the deal. ice cream, the longer, okay, ice crystals, the faster you freeze something, the smaller the ice crystals are, right?

[39:23] And the reason is because with rapid freezing, you get many nucleation sites, right? So ice crystals don't ice crystals prefer to form on other ice crystals. In other words, ice crystals prefer to grow rather than to form entirely new ice crystals, right? It's more energetically favored. So the slower something freezes. The larger the ice crystals are. The more rapidly something freezes, the more different nucleation sites you

[39:49] get, and the smaller the ice crystals are because they don't have time to grow into larger ice crystals.

[39:55] So there's a direct relationship between the size of the ice crystals that are formed in

[40:00] a freezing process and the rate of freezing. Now, there are other factors as well. Uh, you know, uh, the composition of it, but, but, for a given ice cream composition, the crystal size is directly related to uh, the freeze time.

[40:15] Now here's another thing. Typically, when you're freezing the ice cream. Remember, you're never freezing ice cream until it's a total solid. A good amount of the product of the ice cream is still in a liquid state, right? And how much of it is liquid is dependent on what the freezing point of the ice cream

[40:34] is, and that's dependent on things like the sugar content. Uh, and, you know, the fat, things like this. Well, not really the fact content, but the sugar content, right? So, you know, you're looking at there's a lot of liquid water in there. So when you draw out of a machine, you've been churning for 30 minutes, you draw out of the machine, there's still a lot of liquid in

[40:51] it, you already have kind of large seed crystals in there because of the

[40:55] long freezing time, 30 minutes. You then put it in the freezer to harden overnight and what happens? Those crystals get bigger and bigger overnight as it gets colder and colder. So let's say you have a draw temperature. So forget what the freezing temperature of the, of the, uh, forget what the, the minimum possible condenser temperature is in your ice cream

[41:12] maker, right? Forget it, because that's not what's important. What's important is what the temperature, how fast it can put the energy into

[41:20] the ice cream, right? So a commercial ice cream machine, even if it's only,

[41:25] uh, you know, if it's running at a higher temperature than yours, has enough, has enough ability to chill, enough chilling power that it can freeze the ice cream to its draw temperature of somewhere around, I don't know, 20 Fahrenheit, let's say, 18, what is it, between 15 and

[41:41] 20? I forget exactly. Fahrenheit, the draw temperature. It can do that in 10 minutes or less, right? So the LB 100, which a lot of people use the tailors, depending on the batch size that you put in, you can get down to like a 7 minute batch time, right? Anything below like a 7 to 10 minute freeze time, the

[41:58] the fact that your crystals are smaller doesn't make a damn bit of difference because you can't taste ice crystals that like your tongue can't distinguish the texture of ice crystals that are

[42:07] any smaller than that. So while some people say the texture of liquid nitrogen ice cream is superior to the texture of ice cream that's frozen in a regular

[42:13] machine because it theoretically has smaller, you know, crystals. That's horse hockey because your tongue can't distinguish anything. But you can very easily tell the difference between an ice cream that took 30 minutes to

[42:24] freeze and an ice cream that only took 7 or 8 minutes to freeze. Now, the flip side is, is if you were to take, um, so, so, so what to do. Um, you know, one thing is, is look at the power requirements on the, on the back of your

[42:40] machine, and you can kind of get an idea of how much, and you can't really, because things get much less efficient as they get colder in terms of how

[42:47] much they can effectively apply to the ice cream when you're, when you're making it. But almost all machines are underpowered to actually freeze

[42:54] the stuff in a relatively quick fashion. One thing you can do. Obviously start with extremely cold mix. Second thing you can do is use less mix. Now, the problem with using less mix is that a lot of machines, if you underfill the machine, it has too much overrun, i.e. too much air gets whipped into

[43:12] it. So this is something you're going to have to address or worry about. The 3rd thing is, is if you are going to have a freeze time of, let's say, 20 to 30 minutes, then I would recommend only doing it right before you're about to serve it and not try to harden

[43:29] it. Since, since machines that have like a 20 to 30 minute freeze time, the texture of the ice cream is usually pretty good right out of the machine, but once hardened, then it all starts going to hell in a

[43:40] handbasket pretty quickly. Um, I don't know, does that seem to answer that part of that question? As regards references, the best online reference, and it really gets you a long way before you buy any books,

[43:54] is, um, go to, uh, Google this, dairy education series at the university, and I can never know how it's actually pronounced

[44:01] this town, uh, Guelph. You think it's Gel for Guelph, Gelph, Gelph. Yeah, Canadian. Who knows? But the professor who wrote that is H. Douglas Goff. And it's a fantastic resource and I use it as my quick and ready resource and have for years.

[44:16] And fantastic website with a lot of information. Now, as for books, the classic, the

[44:24] ice cream book is called, you know, makes sense. ice cream. That's what it's called. And it came out in the 60s. It was released by a company called AVI Press. AVI Press in the 60s and 70s put out kind of the best food technology book series.

[44:42] It was so awesome. I used to go to the New York Public Library and read them constantly and I would literally 0 Xerox them. You know, this is like, you know, 20 years ago. go Xerox them. So I could have them because I couldn't afford them. Now, they've been superseded somewhat, and AVI is no longer out of business. But they, that book was called Ice Cream by Arbuckle. And our buckle was it. Like, the in like, everyone was like, Arbuckle ice cream. In fact, they didn't even call it ice cream anymore. They just called it Arbuckle. And everyone knew that they were talking about the ice cream book. No relation to Fatty Arbuckle, the silent film star who may or may not have been wrongly accused of doing that, whatever. I don't want to get into it. But the Arbuckle ice cream. So, uh, you familiar with Fatty Arbuckle and Silentone Star stuff? Yeah, you think he did it? Really? you think he did it? I need to reread it. I don't remember what I said, what I thought. My last impression was I think he was falsely. This is so off topic. All right, right, right, right, right. So, uh, so here's what happened. When it got bought, they did a redo of it,

[45:42] right, with a new author, Robert T. Marshall and WS Arbuckle,

[45:46] right? That's the 5th edition from 2000, right? Now already they've changed the authorship on it. And then in 2003, they took they took Arbuckle off the book entirely, and then it was Robert Marshall, Douglas Goff, right? You know, good guy, and Richard Hartel is not at Guelph like golf. He's at Madtown. the ice cream scientist at University of Wisconsin Madison. Anyways, so then Arbuckle came off. I got really pissed. I don't really like it when something's like a standard like that, and then they rewrite it, and then they just like, they take the original author off. They should have called it Arbuckles ice cream with the new authors on it, right? Uh, and uh, and then now they released it uh, in 2013. They just released it as ice cream by H. Douglas Goff and

[46:32] Richard Hartell. So whatever. I don't appreciate the loss of the lineage of like such a well-known book, but there you have it. That's the ice cream book to get. The other one is called by C. Clark. Science of Ice Cream. And it's 2004 from the Royal Society of Chemistry. Little bits of it is available on Google Books and on Amazon. And so I looked through it, and it also looks pretty good. Cover, there's 2 covers I saw. Cover looked like crap. It was like scooped out, colored lard. Like why do people do that when they're shooting ice cream? Just shoot real ice cream and shoot it fast, you know? Do you like lard looking ice cream for fake? You hate that, right? Like, I know it, like, you know, you're selling your science of ice cream, and then you have the other one was just a series of tubes. It's a series of tubes. I didn't really, I didn't get that, but I like the tube cover better. Anyway, but that's another alternative. All right. So that's good on that on that. Yeah, 4 minutes. 4 minutes. Oh, my God. Well, listen. So Sam wrote in about homemade pasta sheets for

[47:27] lasagna, and I have my thoughts on it, but I'm going to try to wait. We were going to try to get Mark Ladner on because, you know, he

[47:35] makes, they make the pasta for that 1000000000 layer lasagna, right? It's not a 1000000000 layers. How many layers is it? 100 hundred? So I wanted to get kind of his feelings on it. especially on like whole egg versus egg yolk and various things in

[47:48] pasta and also his feelings on gluten-free pasta and bite and stuff like that because he knows a lot. So maybe we can get them next week. So, Sam, I'm going to put off your question on that till next week. And let's go up to, and I, you know, by the way, I'm sorry, Twitter, folks,

[48:04] I wasn't looking to get a chance to any Twitter questions, but I'm going to tabulate them all. I'll try to answer some of them on Twitter and then ones I can't answer on Twitter. I'll postpone until next week. Jeff Mays writes in. Just curious if you or Dave were ever able to figure out how best to cook candle nuts so that they're safe to eat. I have a pressure cooker and a circulator and not sure if there's a foolproof way to par cook so I can keep them in the house without having to worry about them being poisonous. I called in a while ago about the question, but I haven't heard the answer yet. Okay. I've only been able to find the stupid stuff on not stupid, whatever. But the stuff on Wikipedia that say that it contains saponin and 4 ball. And everyone just quotes that as a block text out of that. But I haven't found the references on relative heat stability just that they're just that it's inactivated by cooking, not necessarily in a pressure cooker. Typically these guys are roasting it. So, uh, you brought it back to my attention. I haven't answered it and I'm going to come back and do some more research on it. But you have a 2nd question, which I can hit a little harder. For low temperature fried chicken. If you pre-cook at 64 degrees white meat at for 45 minutes, the chicken chill, then refrigerate. What is the best fry temperature to ensure that I don't overcook the chicken, but still get a delicious crispy crust. I brine using the ad hoc, you know, to Keller's book recipe, then low temp cooked, chill, then refrigerate, then

[49:15] remove, and fry, and using flour, buttermilk, uh, uh, I'm using a flour, buttermilk, flour, procedure for frying, which is what I use, but, you know, put egg in the buttermilk. Anyway, when I last did this at 365, uh, 360 degrees in grapeseed oil, that's Fahrenheit, uh, the white meat was not as juicy as when I didn't pre-cook low temp and did all the frying at

[49:32] 325. Or is there a different temp I should use for low temperature? I really want to do the chicken quickly so that I can have it fresh out of the fryer for guests shortly after they arrive and don't have to spend a dinner party in front of a fry station. Thanks again for the show every week. Jeff Mays. Okay, here's a couple of questions for you. A couple of issues. So, um, typically, uh, what may be going on is that you're cooking it brined, uh, and then allowing it

[49:56] to uh, to refrigerate and sit. I'm wondering if it's firming up a little bit, the way that most salted meats really firm up when they're being cooked, and whether or

[50:06] not when you say it's not as juicy, is it, there's a couple of things it could be. Is it that it's not as juicy, but it's still clearly not overcooked? Does it taste firmer, i.e. more cured? In which case, if you're going to pre-cook it a long time before, maybe omit the brining or do a lighter brine so it doesn't taste as firm or cured,

[50:27] that's, I'm not sure, I'd have to test it. I don't have this problem. I'll tell you why. I don't refrigerate my chicken. When I'm doing low temp chicken. I do it fairly soon before the meat is going to be served. I remove it from the ziplocs, uh, where it's brine. I cook it in the brine, frankly. And then I pull it out and I pull it out hot. And the reason I pull it out hot is so that the skin flashes off and gets tacky so that I get good adhesion of my batter,

[50:55] right? Now, I know there's a whole pies and thighs, Roberta's theory of, you know, not drying the chicken at all before you batter it, but whatever. I don't do that. And so, and then I fry it in the limit of food safety time. So I never chill it down and I never and I fried at 360, right? So, you know, that's kind of how I do it. And what my feeling is, is that you're probably, uh, you're probably getting a, a, a lack of the feeling you getting out of a fresh cooked chicken because it was cooked,

[51:31] brined, and cooked, uh, and allowed to sit in the salt, uh, you know, in

[51:35] some salt for so long, it's pulling on that kind of texture, but I'm not sure. I'm going to have to, maybe I could put a call into a couple of people and see what I'm working on. Or maybe do a side-by-side test. But I would try to do it fresh. Uh, i.e. you could still do it so your dinner guests don't get hosed, right? You could do it a couple hours before they show up. But try doing it kind of out of me nude because 360 is what you should do. I wouldn't do it from cold though, by the way. That might be another problem you're having. You might be trying to warm up the center of the chicken by doing a 360 degree cook. If you try to do that, you're going to overcook the hell out of the outside of the chicken and you'll also burn the crust. The optimum thing is to have the chicken be, you know, somewhere, you know, like above room temperature, at

[52:16] or above room temperature, so that when you fry it, you're literally just focused on the crust and everything else is secondary. Here's something you might want to do to try that as a problem is pull your stuff. If you're going to leave it in the bag and refrigerate it. Try this. Pull it out of the fridge, if it's not the salt problem, pull it out of the fridge, and circuit

[52:36] for, like, no, 25 minutes at, like, uh, 50 Celsius, and then, uh, pull it out hot, uh, let it flash off for a little

[52:47] bit, or even 55 Celsius. let it heat up, flash it off for a couple of minutes, then bread it, then fry

[52:53] it, and see whether that solves your problem. Maybe you're just going from too cold and spending too long in the fryer. Anyway, those are my thoughts. We got Peter Cam who shows up late or as last week, never. Whoa. From the, actually, what's interesting is he actually was here in Roberta's. But he was at the bar. But that makes sense. That makes sense. Peter Kim, what do you got for us? president? what are you, president, director? Emperor of the Museum of Galactic Emperor of the Museum of Food and Drink? Exactly. Nice. All right, what do you got for us? Well, I just wanted to give a shout out to the Golden Cadillac, to Don Lee, the Asian man with the best hair in New York City. Well, and, you know, there's a t-shirt of all the various incarnations of Don Lee's hair, and I think his hair deserves the actual legal technical term of incarnation.

[53:38] I believe it has agency. Absolutely, absolutely. has a soul. Yeah. And I've got the calendar of his hair. And also to cocktail superstar John

[53:46] Deragon, the 2 of them put together a great event for MoFAD a couple weeks ago at Golden Cadillac. And yeah, good turnout. Dave, you were there in a mask and a cape shooting. Yeah, syringes of Jell-O shots into people's mouths. Don Lee's jello shots, by the way. They were Don Lee's yellow shots. I take no credit. I take no blame. I was merely the bar back, the server. The waitron. Yeah, Patrick was there too, Patrick Martin's, and... was his quote? Give me Patrick Martin's quote. As he self-injected himself with, with, uh, piña colada. What was the quote? Give it to me. I blocked it from my drive. Oh, come on, don't. Dave, I don't remember anything. No, he's like calling him out. He's not calling him out. was awesome. not calling him out. Hey, how about those flat pizzas that they've got at Subway? Don't get me started. Don't get me started. Don't get me started. We don't have time to get me started. I have a question about MSG though. Oh, geez. you know, Peter, Peter. So why don't you, instead, why don't you spend the, the, you know, the few minutes we have left, and that reminded me, now I have called the personality going through my head. But for those of you that remember living color, you know, cult personality song. Do you remember that? Good song. Anyway, so what do we got going to the museum soon? Well, actually, so on the Golden Cadillac thing, we're going to make that monthly thing. And so keep an eye out for that. And then we've got a debate coming up on GMOs on, I think, Sunday, April

[55:03] 27th at the food book fair. And we've got a big MoFed fundraiser coming up in May, and the Stasi and I are playing it together. is going to be amazing. Got some great chefs lined up for that. May 7 is our tentative date, but we'll be sending out, say the date as soon as we get the details. Are we doing any particular aspect of GMOs are we going to tackle? Man, I mean, I think one of the 1st questions is just going to be about defining GMOs and what those are and how they differ from conventionally grown

[55:29] crops, if at all. Why is that really contentious? The actual definition? Yeah, it is. The definition is contentious. All right. Well, I will, am I going to moderate this one? Uh, yeah, I will have you moderate it. Why is the definition? Oh, I mean, how you define it legally in terms of, hey, Stas, Stas is worried because she's got something else to do. No, it's true. It's fine. I won't discuss what it is. But the point is, is that the, the, the, I guess the definition of what you actually count as a GMO modified food is quite important as it relates to whether or not you could sell it in Whole Foods in 5 years when they come

[56:03] in, right? that what you mean? No one really, no one really argues about what, what the process of using genetic modification is. It's just whether or not a particular food stuff is labeled as GMO free or not, right? That's what's contentious. That's true. Yeah, and also for regulation purposes, too. Right, sure. Sure, sure. All right. So, yes, a giant thanks to the Golden Cadillac. John Daragon, Don League, Greg Baum, all those guys. They did a real solid service with that. And maybe we should have, you know, occasionally we should have you come in and just give us a MoFat update. Yeah, sure. Yeah? You like that? All right. I'll stand you up. Yeah, nice. All right. Well, that was it. Cooking issues. Labs and labs.

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