[0:00] Today's program has been brought to you by S. Wallace Edwards and Sons, 3rd generation

[0:04] cure masters producing the country's best dry cured and aged hams, bacon, and sausage. For more information, visit Surrey Farms.com. I'm Greg Blaze, host of Cutting the Kurd. You're listening to Heritage Radio Network, broadcasting live from Bushwood, Brooklyn. If you like this program, visit heritageradionetwork.org for 1000s more.

[0:36] Hello and welcome to Cookie Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to your land. Remember to Pizza Inn. Bushwick, Brooklyn on the Heritage Radio Network, mostly every Tuesday we missed last Tuesday because I was teach vote from 12 to

[0:49] 12 45-ish. Anyways, calling your questions to 718-497-2128. 718-497-2128. So, Stas, while I'm calling up today's questions. Why don't you tell me what we did last week? We did a, you taught a class on carbonation with Shibas at the Nomad Hotel,

[1:08] which is a nice place. Yeah, and Stas does what she does best in these situations, which is sit in the background and just shake her head disapprovingly the entire time. She's like, Listen, I've heard she doesn't talk because she's right next to me. You can hear it talk. Listen, I've seen to do this demo 8000 freaking times, and everything new you add is wrong, right? Is that pretty much what that's how you feel, right? No, it's the same anecdotes that you do. Like what? Oh, like just your trials with Carmen. Well, I have to tell them specifically. I know, but I just, like, on the radio, I try not to repeat. But like, if you have a specific thing to say that illustrates how not to carbonate,

[1:49] then what's the matter? got a bug bite or something? Right now. Like, jumped out of this? What's up? Heritage radio network on show that I'm sitting on. don't believe you. It is true. Have any of you been to Nogalas, Mexico? Like, it's like we're a warehouse for Negal's Mexico blankets right now. like nostasia city. Negalis is, unfortunately, no fence,

[2:10] no gals, but it's the only place in Mexico that I've ever been, and I'm trying to rectify that as soon as possible, go to what I would consider real Mexico.

[2:17] It's like, what's fake, what's fake US? Like, if someone were to come to the U.S. and they're like, this is all they saw. You'd say, yeah, you haven't been to the US. What would that be? Newark, no offense to Newark. Like, what if you landed in, what if you flew into Newark airport? airport right? What if you flew in a Newark airport? No offense, Newark. You know, I used to live in Jersey, holding on, whatever. But what if you landed in Newark Airport? and we're like, okay, I'm here. It just got the closest hotel to Newark airport, and that's where you stayed the whole time. Sounds like a fun trip. think that Jack, tell Dave about what email you got today. Oh, yeah, I got a promotional email from like orbits or something. And it was like, hey, Jack, pack your bags. You're going to New York. Oh geez. Hey, here's an interesting fact, though it may or may not be true. about packing your bags. See, that is what we call bad cookie editing, bad kind of data sifting to try and give you a trip. All expenses paid on the L train, huh? Big whopping. $2.50. A little bit of a discount if you have the metro card. Anyways. So, uh, you familiar with the private browsing thing? I'm sure you are, stars, because your whole family's paranoid about being tracked. No, I don't. So on your Mac and other things, you can hit a button that basically says that your browser is no longer going to store cookies. And like, you know, 9 out of 10 people, they use it for the porn. So their porn can't be tracked. Right, Jack, you're familiar with this, right? Yeah, yes. Not the corn part, but... Oh, I mean, not necessarily. the incognito window. Yeah, so I don't know if this is true. I'd like to hear something from any SEO folks out there. But apparently, if you go to look up an airplane flight to

[3:52] Mazadlan or Acapulco, something I was talking about, if you go look up a flight to there, and you're like, nah, I'm not gonna buy it right now. And you go back, like, 5 days later to look at it,

[4:03] on, no, no, no, on your regular computer, the prices are higher. absolutely true. It's because they're tracking you and they know you want to go there. So if you log in with private browsers, browsers for money, browse what you want me to browse, then they

[4:16] give you the old price again. That's crazy. disappointing about the world. That's so used car salesmen. No offense to people who sell used cars. many honest ones. But it's like, you know, why are you shafting me? Because, see, this is what everyone's like, I'm going to keep looking at the prices because they think that that's like a good thing to do. And they're looking at you looking at the prices. And hosing you as a result. So we got a cool auction here to help benefit Heritage Radio Network. This programming is free for you, but not free for us to produce. So we have a bid to win a day at the modernist cuisine cooking lab in Bellevue, Washington with Nathan Mirvold and the modernist cooking crew. One of the most visionary food technology and business leaders of our time. This is a once in a lifetime chance to experiment in the kitchen yourself with Nathan Mirvold and his team of chefs, chemists, physicists, and machinist. Peru's new cooking innovations. Ask all of your burning questions and questions about burning, and bring home a signed copy of the photography of modernist cuisine.

[5:15] Place your bid on this package on charitybuzz.com now. Let's get to some of last week's questions. Brian Garrick wrote in about Shadbury's ice cream. Hello, cooking at your team. Hope you're staying cool and dry. I am not. I am a big pile of sweat, although those tone styles. I made it in, I mean, late as usual, but record time for me. I made it. You ready for this? Not door to door. Computer to radio. Computer to radio in 15 minutes from my house. You left at 1155. 53. Yeah, yeah. Like, I was like, like, how'd you do that? Uh, well, I've, I, I feel like I'm melting like the Wicked Witch of the West right now, but I just, I just like, I made sure that I was putting just as much power to the

[5:55] upstroke, because I got straps on my, on my bike, uh, as I did into my downstroke, and it's like, I felt like people on the bridge were standing still because I was so anxious because of how late I

[6:04] was. But, you know, I was I've been cooking all morning. I was cooking all morning and during the radio questions. Wow. So give me a give me a break. Give me a freaking break, made a lot of cocktails this morning. Not to drink, not to drink. I wasn't drinking. It'd be amazing to be here. Just completely wasted. No, but I made some of the cocktails from the book actually for this thing I have to do tonight. And did you ever have the vermouth in the freezer cocktails, the vermouth blender cocktails? So I'll give you the basic outline. You have to buy my book for the exact recipe. Oh, no, um, so you take, I've, it's called ebony and ivory. And I got I got a Dolan Blog for Mooth, which is, you know, the semi-sweet white. Dolan. And I mix that one with a little bit of vodka up to proof, water, and lime juice, pinch of salt, right? And you get the alcohol level, right, so that when you put it in, just like the Italian astagliana. When you put it in a Ziploc bag and throw it in the freezer, it turns into like a slushy drink in your freezer without you having to do anything.

[6:55] And then the other one, that's, that would be the ivory. And the ebony is carpano, a little bit of vodka and water, pinch of salt. And you serve them. You mix it? No, no, no. You serve side by side in perfect harmony. Yeah, Paul and what's his name? What do you mean, what's his name? I can't remember. Stevie freaking wonder. I'm not going to say, I'm not going to get into it. Stevie Wonder, one of the Jack, one of the greatest modern musicians like that ever, right? I mean, Stevie? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, you know what people get all pissed because, uh, you know, kind of like the jungle fever and plus era of his life. But if anyone that I'd ever met had come up with any one album when he was in his prime, any one of those songs, like Boogie

[7:40] on, reggae Woman, if you come up, if someone's like, you were one hit wonder, you're like, yeah, but it was, it was Boogie on reggae Woman. You be like, all right. You know what I mean? Because that's that's just so awesome. Anyway, Brian Garrick, Shadbury's. Uh, oh, yeah. God, I go on tan. Do we want to take a caller first before jumping in there? Sure, sure, okay. Callers on the line. Call her, you're on the air. Hi Dave. Thanks for taking my call. This is Gar in San Diego. Oh, nice. What up? Um, I was just, um, I was thinking the other day, I am a fan of cottage cheese. I like cottage cheese, and I also like goat cheese, and I looked to see if they make a goat cottage cheese, and I couldn't find anything. Um, have you ever heard of this or, is it even possible? And what are the differences between, I guess, goat milk and whatever they use in cottage cheese, I guess, cow, maybe

[8:29] sheet milk? Huh. You know, I like, I mean, I eat a lot of cheese, but I'm not really an expert on the manufacturer of

[8:37] cheese. Um, you know, my guess is that you could probably do a mixed milk one because there's a lot of mixed milk cheeses that

[8:46] have, um, curds that work like, uh, curds that work somewhat like cow's milk. Uh, but, I mean, just my experience with fresh goat cheese is that it's got a very different kind of paste and that you have to age it for a long

[9:05] time. But I could be totally wrong. You know what I mean? But I would guess that if you fortified it with cow milk, you could get it to work. This is something that, you know what we should, what we should do, honestly, Jack, are you listening to this? We should get Can you post a question into cutting the curd? Absolutely And then we'll we'll get their response and then we'll read it back on the on the air next week. That be awesome. You want to do that? You all right with that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That'd be great. I really appreciate it. I mean you're right. The only fresh goat cheese that I know of has a much more chalky texture. Not really cottage seedy, but... So what I mean, like, if you had, like, all the delicious mixed milk cheeses from Italy. Yeah. Yeah. So those mixed milk cheeses can have like textures that are in between any of those, you know? And I've had very aged goat cheeses that have only goat that have a fairly solid texture. But I've never had a fresh goat cheese that has a cottage cheesy like texture. And so I don't know whether it's possible. But what we'll do is I'll do a little bit of research. Well, Jack's gonna get a response this week. He's going to email it to me, and then once I get that, I'll do a little separate research on the technical literature that I steal access

[10:16] to, and then we'll reconvene next week with the answer. Sound good? Yeah, right on. That be great. And if you have a quick 2nd. I have one more non-food related question. Uh-oh. what you got? What kind of bike do you ride? Okay, so I used, I ride, here's the thing. In New York City, you know, we have to have those giant kryptonite chain locks where your bike gets stolen. So the lock weighs roughly what my bike would weigh, right? Plus, you have to carry the keys and then you have to sit there and you have to string the chain through all of that stuff. So I made a decision a long time ago that I was not going to ever lock my bike ever. And so the answer, therefore, is that you need to get a folding bike. So I bought a folding bike called a down tube, which is really cheap because I'm a cheap bastard. Stats, right around. So cheap. I'm a cheap bat. So I bought this down to, but it got fairly good ratings. Uh, and, uh, I proceeded because I would throw it in my closet when I got home to, uh, completely destroy the derailer every day. So I was throwing my chain like, you know, 3 times a day and I got so irritated that, uh, you know, I was like, crap on this. I'm ripping all of the gears out and I'm going to make it into a single speed. But then I was like, you know what, the hell with it? Because it's going to be crazy anyway. I'm just going to go full stupid and I made it a fixed fixed gear folder on 20s. It's riding 20 inch wheels, which by the way, people don't look into the physics of it. In a New York City ride. If you're doing a lot of stop and starts, the 20s are as faster,

[11:51] faster than unless you're going to buy really high end full-size jobs. Anyhoo. So I was like, ah, I'll turn into a fix because why not? Because I can I can do it. And then I kind of addicted to the fixing. But I leave the brakes on because I'm not one of those guys, right? The brakes. And, uh, and then uh, the problem with the down tube is, is that they, uh, you know, the steering is so high up on a panilever that because you're fixed, you start really, really, really hard. And so I snapped on going down to Williamsburg, I snapped the steering off and then had to negotiate going down the Williamsburg

[12:22] Bridge with a snapped column there. And then I, so I was like, I got another one of that because it was under warranty, snapped it

[12:31] again. So I was like, crap on this, and now I ride a Zooter Swift, which has a guaranteed for life

[12:36] frame. I used to ride really thin. 12 is on the on the I ride regular light. They're custom wheels, but they're not real. They're like regular vello rims and then with I ride swabi, swabi, uh, uh, big apples just

[12:49] because, uh, I used to ride thin and I was a little bit faster, but, you know, I've seen too many people wipe out on those thin

[12:55] guys if any, if any crap gets on the road that I was like, the hell with this, especially with the, with the 20s. It's really easy to wipe out. So crap one, I got wider things. But it's still, and I have those, I have that weird butt friendly seat. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so that's what I, it's still, it's modified. It's modified beyond being fit, whatever, but yeah, that's what I read. Cool. Thanks very much. I figured you'd have a pretty interesting bike. Yeah, it's weird. I mean, if the bike, the bike snob would have a field day with my bike, I'm sure, but if any of you guys read, the bike's not,

[13:25] but anyway. All right, thanks again for taking my call. Thanks. All right, so back to Brian and Shadberries and ice cream. Okay. I noticed that you tweeted a recipe for a drink special that contains Shadberries. It's fruit picking time around here and I've never had one. Where can I find them and how can I identify them? Also, there are tons of mulberries around New York that are ripe for picking. It's a little, the shadberries are gone now next year, though. I think they're the same as June berries, but I'm not sure if I think people might call service berries something else. Look, they're on a tree. I can recognize it when I see it, but it's hard to describe. Once you identify it, you're going to identify it forever. So they're purple. They're go red to dark purple when they're ripe berries. They're on a tree that bears alternate leaves, of course, you know, 9 tenths of

[14:09] trees other than, you know, maples, ashes, and, um, you know, a couple others, uh, dogwoods, uh, are alternate. So, you know, that's not much of a help. If the finely serrated kind of elliptical is also not very much of a help. If you look at the berries, they look a little bit like a blueberry and they have that, I guess it's a calyx thing coming off of it. But if you just look up in a couple of books, Um, you can see the variants of it, and once you see it, you like, once you see it once, you like, you get it, and that's it. Uh, and there's a patch of them on Eldritch Street near the, uh, the short, like, housing buildings there, uh, in the, in the lower east side, if you want to see them, but the barriers are all gone on those anyway. And they have an astringent, uh, kind of acidic taste that I like because if you mash them and let them sit on the skins a while before you spin them off, they pull

[14:53] up, uh, a little bit more tannin than, uh, like a blueberry, a little bit more musky, but not probably as tannic as cassis.

[15:00] Oh, they're good. I like them. You've had them before, right, sis? Anyway. so mulberries. Any favorite spot to get some mulberries, any good techniques for picking them, they're so fragile. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A technique is to get someone else to pick them for you or wear gloves, but don't, because that looks dumb. If you're walking around the city picking berries with gloves. What do you think about it? If you see a dude picking berries with gloves in the street, what do you say about it, guys? I don't know. What you feel? I mean, I don't know. We'd be like, what the hell is that guy doing? right? I don't know. Just get that. Well, it does stand the hell out of you. Also, I spotted a few peach trees and sour cherry trees. I can't have the sour cherries. I'm eager to pick them too. What the best way? I don't have a fruit picker, any way to make when it works. That's an interesting question. Probably for things like peaches. You could, you know, get like, they make fruit picking basket things, but then you'd have to fix it to the end of an extendable

[15:48] poll. That I wouldn't mind looking like a lunatic around. Hey, what are you doing up there? Oh! I'm picking peaches. What's wrong with you? Uh, the mulberries, uh, a good place to pick them that's pleasant to go to is uh, uh, in the park that's off of 158th Street and Riverside Drive. You go over to the river on the west side and you walk up and there's a bunch of, they have a boat line. I was about to curse. They have a boatload of Juneberry stabberries there, but then they also have a bunch of mulberry trees up in that area, and there's a bunch just scattered around the city. There's some in the parks that are up Allen Street, or is that Christy? You know what I'm talking about? Christy. It's Christy Forsyth, right? And we found a good one near what restaurant we always used to go to where we found one where we used to eat with Maria. There was a really nice one. Oh, yeah. I can't remember. Anyway, my recommendation, like I said before, is to pick and I'm too stupid to do this, but you got to have a long view on this. So pick a couple of berries this year and then mark the tree, like take a picture and geotag it or whatever. Like, oh, this is the good one. And then you can go back and get it the next year because, uh, I mentioned this last week when I started talking about your question. that mulberry trees are extremely variable in fruit quality. Uh, so anyway, that's what that's what I would say. ice cream question. Jenny Bauer from Jenny Splendid Ice Creams uses a milk filtration technique. Uh, and then this is a paraphrasing of it. Start with raw, grass fed, grass pastured milk from the cows right at the dairy. Milk comes in and we separate it into a center in a centrifugion, into heavy cream and skim milk. As per usual, the cream goes into a tank. Uh, when I go to the dairy, that's the 1st place I go. I take a ladle insipid, foamy, like slightly whipped cream. Okay. The skim milk then goes through a nano-filtration system, which is, this is quoting, I think, Jenny

[17:31] Bauer in food and wine. Food and wine did an article called Lessons from Jenny Brittenbauer, and this is a quota from that. And this is really cool where old technique makes modern. The filtration system runs the milk across a membrane, multiple times we remove about 60% of the water. Water's not good in ice cream because it makes it icy. Removing water also concentrates the proteins to give it more body and texture. We're working with 2 proteins, the caseine, and whey proteins, which gives great smoothness. So then we take the concentrated skim milk, containing proteins and

[17:59] lactose and mix it back with the cream to give us a base of about 15% butter fat perfect for ice cream. It's still raw and not been cooked. So then we add sugar and batch pasteurize at 175 degrees. Ultra pasteurized milks are heated to 300 plus and they shoot them through a tiny pipe, which strips a lot of the flavor out. And, uh, anyway, batch pasteurization gives the milk a nice cooked custardy flavor, and bonds the water to the proteins,

[18:20] butter fat and sugar. I don't know if I believe that. I don't know exactly what she means by it. Then we shoot it through homogenizer, while it's still hot. So the butterfat is melted and looser. We homogenize it to make the butter fat molecules. I think she means like, you know, the my cells, the same size as all the other ones. And if we didn't, all those big butterfat molecules would find each other and make butter. The homogenizer shoots it through, blah, blah, blah, blah, yakety, smackety. Yakety, yakety, yakety. Um, and then she she spins it and then they pack it all by hand 1000s a week. And she

[18:49] says, there are machines for packing, but they require a much thinner ice cream, so it never freezes up the same way that

[18:54] ours do. Okay, so now back to the question part of it. This is not the quote anymore. She recommends that at home, we should boil the milk for ice cream base for 4 minutes. The boiling is key. It evaporates excess water like our nanofiltration system. Like pasteurization, it bonds sugar and fat to the water, and it denatures the whey proteins to make them smooth. Then you add cream cheese to mimic the thickening of homogenization to bulk up the body. And then they, food and wine did an article where they tested it. Isn't it just easier to add? And then your question is, isn't it easier to add powdered milk to the base? What's in cream cheese, other than stabilizers, the powdered milk, doesn't it? Well, I mean, other than stabilizers, there's a boat ton of stabilizers and cream cheese. That why it's so smooth. If you've ever had non-stabilized cream cheese. It's really kind of greeny, which I actually like. The best uh, cream cheese that I've ever purchased is uh, bought at Russian Daughters, and it's completely non-stabilized cream cheese, so it only lasts a couple of days, and it's kind of grainy, but it has such

[19:45] kind of an amazing technician. No offense to Philly. In fact, Booker, Stas, you appreciate this booker, hates the high quality cream

[19:52] cheese, and he's like, I'd prefer Philadelphia brand cream cheese. And then so he makes me buy the most expensive salmons like in the world fundamentally at Russian Daughters and wants the, you know,

[20:04] the, uh, the mass market cream cheese. That a nice way of saying it, right? Mass market. Hey, look, I eat Philly. Anyways. Isn't it easier to add powder milk to the base? Do you have any thoughts on the science behind what's going on here? Well, I mean, you know, what I typically do is

[20:21] add, just add more cream to the milk to get the butterfat content up, and then, yes, I add powdered milk to the base. A lot of powdered milk doesn't taste very good, so I can see boiling down your milk to remove some of the

[20:35] water, and then, but you're still adding less cream. Look, I would spend more time worrying about the quality of the cream that you use. Nine tenths of the cream that you buy in the supermarket is, um, you know, ultra pasturized because it's sitting around for a long time and they want it to last forever. So, like, if you're sourcing like a super nice cream that hasn't been completely whacked out of whack by the, uh, you know, by

[20:57] the, by the homogenation by boiling it, I mean, I think it's a little interesting that she's into the raw thing. The other thing in a low temperature pasteurizing, but then you're boiling out your your milk to get, well, at least the skin portion of it to get, I mean, in other words,

[21:10] and I don't know about this. I mean, but the thing is, I'm sure they test it, sure it's delicious, and the cream cheese is going to add some acidity to, which I don't know that you necessarily want. Like, when I'm doing it, I would add, I mean, remember also she's doing Philly style, so she's not adding any eggs to it. I almost always make egg style. When I make Philly style, I add stabilizers to it. Uh, like, I used to use flavor free guar. Uh, you could also use locust bean gum. Geland makes a super duper awesome stabilizer because it's like hyper creamy in small amounts, like a fluid gel. It's ridiculous. And then you can also light it on fire. Um, don't add Guar and Jelan because then it gets stretchy like selepton derma. So anyway, I add stabilizers. I just up my cream component, and if I want to bulk out the proteins more, I add powder, but it is true that some powders don't taste

[21:58] good. Right? Is that a good answer? I've never had her ice cream, but all of the little doodads in the Yelp for, I think she's Ohio or something. All the little doodads are like awesome, best, awesome, best. don't know. We've got another color. Color, you were on the air. Hello, Dave. Um, so uh, my name is Anthony. I'm from DC. Um, I've been working on a fish sausage, uh, for the fish shop that I work for. Uh, we're looking to make a, basically a sausage with the texture and the snap of a hot dog, but emulsified, um, our 1st attempt, which is

[22:36] a, uh, you know, traditional Mussolina was too soft. Yeah. So, we did a couple batches, um, and we're using the midst of, like, probably 50, 60% white fish, and then the red is

[22:49] scallop and, uh, shrimp. Yep, um, puree and fruit processor. Uh, I've tried egg whites, uh, gelatin, um,

[22:58] uh, milk powder and tapioca starch, like different variations of those, uh, tapioca starch, and I'm assuming the terrorist starch, anything else would be, it's very pasty and starchy

[23:11] tasty. That was almost inedible. Um, and I wanted to get your thoughts on what you might use to give it a little bit more of

[23:19] that uh, firmness, that kind of fight to it. All right, cool. You packing them into lamb casings. Um, right now, we've just been packing them. That's the plan. going to be land casings, but right now we've just been wrapping them plastic and poaching them off to try it out. You're obviously going to get more snap in the land casing, but you're not getting the texture you want out of it. You want more of the texture of a traditional, uh, emulsified sausage. And, you know, most seafood sausages have that very light kind of almost dumpling like texture to them. Stas, by the way. I't know if I mentioned this on error, whether this came up on error, did it? She hates seafood sausage. Can you believe it? Can you believe this lady? Anyways. So, uh, very simple thing for you. Now, here's the deal. You're going to be able to get anything in between where you are right now and

[24:06] seremi, just by using meat glue. I mean, I wouldn't go all the way to serimi if I was you. But you know, you're going to be able to get anything in between. Now, meat blue is going to bind the proteins together. And I have myself

[24:18] made like bound sausages. Uh, I think I've done it with, with seafood, but I've done, definitely done them before, where they're like ping pong balls. you can definitely go over. So you're never, ever going to want to go over one% of meat glue. Don't but don't even start near that high. And also, uh, the, how much the meat glue is going to make it into a ping pong ball is going to be dependent on how much salt is present and then how

[24:47] much, uh, you know, how much food processing or grinding you get after you put the meat glue

[24:52] in. And remember, you have to pump the sausages out

[24:56] within, after you add the meat glue within about 5 to 10 minutes because it's going to start setting up. So I would start with somewhere like a quarter percent. And I would wait, I would take it to

[25:07] taste it to get just where you want. And then I would, at the last minute, blitz in one quarter of one% of Activa RM, and then, which you can get at

[25:17] modernestpantry.com. And then I would, you know, blend that in and then pipe it right away or just roll it in plastic for your

[25:24] tests. And then, uh, you know, if you want to do it, you can, you can poach them off at 55 Celsius to do a quick set on them so that you don't have to wait forever in a

[25:35] day, and then you can do your regular cookoff wherever you, you know, at whatever you

[25:39] want, or you can let it sit in the fridge for 4 hours to overnight to, to set

[25:43] up, and then you should be able to get a judge. Well, remember, though, if you're going to hold these things overnight. 70 to 80% of the texture will develop over that 4 hour period, but then it's

[25:55] going to get a little springier overnight as it continues to bond if it's sitting in your fridge without getting touched. So our game plan is to pre-poach them. So we're using, um, we only sell, you know, fish that's been filleted for a couple of days, maybe. So we're using the straps, and the filets that we haven't sold, um, and they're still perfectly edible, but they don't look, you know, as fresh as

[26:20] possible, so we're pre-proaching them, uh, so we can sell without, um, you know, without worrying about the customer taking them out the next day, and, you know,

[26:31] just turned after a day or 2 rather than, you know, 4 days. Once you poach it, the enzyme's going to get deactivated, it's not going to get any stiffer. So if you're gonna, if you know you're going to poach them off, then I recommend, uh, I recommend like, like doing a, uh, an initial poach off. Like if you're going to do lamb casing size, an initial poach off at like 55 Celsius for like, for like 10 minutes,

[26:58] and, you know, 10, 15 minutes, that should set it, and then you can put them in whatever temperature you want to cook them to, cook them, you know, whatever you're going to do

[27:09] to, you know, do the bacteria, kill step, and then take them out and you're ready to rock and roll. And then the good thing about that is you can run through a couple of cycles with the Miklu to figure out how much you want to add. Gotcha. And I could probably also time it so that I get just the right amount of set on the meat glue to

[27:27] texture that we want, correct? Wait, say that last part of that sentence again, the right amount of sentiment. Just time out when we poach them or when we do the 55 Celsius water

[27:37] bath, to the tester that we want. So whether it's like 2 hours or 3 or 4 hours, we can almost find 2 minutes or

[27:45] extra, correct? Yeah, yes, but the 55 sets it. Like, the enzyme is still working. So you don't have to wait even, like, you can wait like 15 minutes or 10 and set it at a 55 degree bath.

[27:58] That's how Wiley used to make his shrimp noodles. Or I guess still does make it shrimp noodles. Uh, I mean, you could go a little lower, like 50, 52, 53. If you're going to cook it right away, you know, you could even do 50 and that'll set it right away, but I usually do 55 because it's a

[28:14] nice safe number. Um, you know, you're not growing any bacteria in the bath itself. So I usually do 55. But then you don't you don't have to wait at all. So then is you make them, you stuff them, you poach them off, and then, you know,

[28:26] you're good. And then I would just base the amount of Meekloo based on that. Gotcha. And I was, one other thought I had on it was that the protein, you know, the

[28:37] protein, uh, percentage in fish is a lot lower than meat, words, um,

[28:41] adding uh, a protein powder, like uh, soy protein, uh, isolated. Would that help maybe give a firmer texture as well or is that just going to be a waste of time? With the Miklu, I wouldn't. It already has casing in it, which is helper. And if you if you have customers that don't want the casing, you can get one without casing. And it, fish. Remember how soluble like fish, uh, Think of how sticky fish

[29:08] gets. Because like a lot of the proteins are actually soluble. So once you add meat glue to it, sucker like, that's what, like the fact that the protein comes out is why we do a brine step before you're going to do low

[29:21] temp. Otherwise you get that white album and bloom on the outside, which looks nasty. So I don't think you're going to have a problem with, uh, I don't think you're going to have a problem with the with the Miklu on its

[29:32] own rather than having to add like a separate thing because that's just another thing. And then, you know, the meat glue is in such small percentage and that you, I don't even know. I mean, technically, I don't know what you're labeling, but I don't know. I think it's better than having to add like another thing, you know? Exactly. And I should add the meat glue and powder or should I make the paste with it and then add it to the mix. I would add it to the mix in powder form, unless you're having trouble, like unless it's such a big batch that you're worried it's not going to get in, in which case. But remember, when you're doing that, you're adding water. So as long as you're okay with that. you could do it that way. But also every just, the key thing, everything quick. Yes, okay. All righty? Thank you. Let us know how it works. Good luck with that. No problem. All right. quick break. All right. right back.

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[30:45] profile that enhances the quality characteristics of Berkshire Port. Optimum amounts of pure white fat marbling contribute to a flavor that's a

[30:54] delicate, perfect balance between sweet and salty. For more information, visit edwardsvam.com. Nice. We back? Sam wrote in about, uh, I wonder whether it's the same Sam. Interesting. I have another quick question for Dave, the old school poly-science blue and white circulator has 2 pump speeds, slow and fast. Does heating the water up in the fast pump speed, help the circulator heat up faster, Sam? Uh, no, here's the deal. The old circulators had a low and a high pump speed for this reason and this reason only. A lot of laboratory processes take place very close to ambient temperature. And on the high pump speed, you add a lot of friction to the

[31:43] system, and so you can heat the water just because the pump speed is higher. This is according to Philip Preston. This is not, I don't want to, someone calling me back and saying, there's not enough friction. listen, I don't want to hear about it. Like, this is like from the mouth of the designer of the piece of equipment. Uh, and so the low pump speed is there just so that you're not dumping a lot of extra energy in in case you're doing ambient or

[32:04] subambient cooling, like with an ice bath or something like this, right? Uh, so, uh, in a cooking uh, in a cooking scenario, you should always use high, always. unless you have something that's extremely fragile, that's getting knocked around, like, for instance, let's say you put eggs in the circulator and you didn't take the care to make sure that they're not rattling around, like, I'm not going to name names, but I saw a

[32:24] four, like, a 3 Michelin star chef have, uh, in a demo. I think I told us before, but eggs is rattling around the freaking circulator bin. I was like, 0 my god, why do you hate eggs so much? Why are you doing a demo if you hate eggs? So in that case, maybe you can put it on low? But always keep it on high. Always keep it on high. Um, and I don't know because I don't know which sand you are, but there are another sand that rode in saying on food storage, can you ask Dave this question on the radio show, do you know any book or resource dedicated to optimal food storage?

[32:52] For example, how best to store celery? Thanks, Sam. Uh, I don't, uh, except for Harold. I didn't have a chance to go peruse my copy, but Harold McGee's 3rd, well,

[33:03] 4th, if you count the, if you count the 2nd edition of On Food and Cooking as a different book, which I think you

[33:08] should. Like so many chapters are rewritten, so we'll call it his 4th book. Uh, the keys to good cooking. In that, he has a lot of tips for optimum storage of things. So, and that's like one of the, because that book, see, like what a lot of people don't get about, that book is meant to be like go to kitchen reference on stuff like

[33:26] stores. So I need to go reread it, but I think that's got a lot of stuff like that and I would welcome anyone tweeting on in books they have on that on that subject. Uh, you know, because mostly I read kind of technical crap on this on this sort of thing. Uh, and Eric Michael Morris from Little Rock wrote in, uh, this question on sugar-free gelato. Uh, and uh, what I'm going to have to do is punt this to next week because I need some more information from you,

[33:50] uh, Eric. Sorry, if this has been addressed before. I love the show, but haven't listened to them all, like, if you have problems. I'm the GM of a wood oven, southern Italian style pizza and salad place in Little Rock, Arkansas. We make our own gelato fresh daily. I was curious about making a sugar-free gelato slash sorbetto. What do you think of that word says? You like that word? Because you like anything Italian? Or Swiss? Except for the people. You don't like, I thought you love the people. I don't like the people. Where in Switzerland or Italy? You don't like northern Italians or southern Italians? I hate all Italians You heard it here first. What the hell? She likes the language, likes the culture, food, food. Landscape. Landscape. But the people, ah. Ah, wipe them off. Uh, she's just like, people, I just want you, like, I work with a ball of hate. Just a straight up ball of hate. I want to do, um, Jack, can you do like a ball of confusion

[34:51] cover, like somehow referencing like ball of ball of hatred for a star or something? Yeah. I was curious about making a sugar-free gelato slash sorbeto. The owner was trying to explain inverted sugars and crap to me that is over my head. Any advice on making outstander sugar-free, gelato, thanks, Eric Michael Morris. Okay, here's here's the questions that I have for you, Eric. So, The question straight up off the bat is why do you want it to be sugar-free? In other words, are you trying to make it savory, or is it for a diabetic application, or is it just that you want to have no added sugar, but you're okay with the sugar in fruits, right? Because sugar is a, you know, the sugar is there as

[35:32] a uh, as a texture agent, right? So, you can, and, you know, invert, so sugar, sucrose is a disaccharide. joined together, and it tends to crystallize. And of other things, an invert sugar tends to make things, it has a certain amount of freezing point depression to it, right? And if you were to break that same molecule sucrose into its 2 constituent parts, which

[35:57] are glucose and fructose, all of a sudden it depresses the freezing point even more. So adding a certain amount like decreases the freezing point, more, et cetera, et cetera. But that's not the, that's not the, the, the point here. The point is, is that why do you want to do what you're doing? If you want it to taste the same as an ice cream or a gelato, unless you're going to add artificial sweeteners to it. Don't add Stevia. I hate Stevie Stas. Come on with me. You hate Stevia? Jack, you hate Stevia? Yeah, obviously. Yeah, I hate Stevia. I have no I have no problem with people who like it except for what that means is that you like something that tastes bad. I mean, it's possible that some people can't taste that awful poisonous metallic bitter taste at the end of Stevia. It's possible, but it's just wretched. Anyways. So the question is, do you want to add an artificial sweetener, in which case you need to bulk it up with a

[36:43] sweetener, that is, if you're looking for calories. It's non-caloric and has the same sort of freezing point depression and texturizing

[36:53] properties. Uh, in which case, I'd have to look up what I think the best kind of, uh, you know, but the other thing is when you move to high bulk, uh, uh, sugars like that, like isomalt, then you increase the

[37:03] poopensity of the ice cream because you're not digesting the stuff. Anything you don't digest increases the potential of what you're working on, which is why everyone worries about isomalt, even though you really don't eat that much isomalt. You what I'm talking about, is that? Yep. Anywoo. Uh, if you're just looking to use like natural fruit juice, then get yourself a refractometer and boil your, you know, boil your fruit juice down until it's basically sugar and then

[37:26] uh, add it back to it and measure the measure, you know, measure their fractometer, what your sugar level is, um, have

[37:33] I hit any other ones? Anyway, write me back and tell me like exactly what you want this sucker to taste like versus what you're tasting like now and I can get you a better answer as to what you're doing. But the sugar is doing 3 things. It's providing a taste, which you may or may not want. Um, It's uh, depressing the freezing point, which you definitely want. Otherwise, it's hard like a rock, and even aside from that as texturizing properties to it. 3 things. Uh, and I'm sure many, many others. Four minute warning. Okay, um, okay. So is there anyone I promised I'd get to let me get back to the top of this? I going to get the bone marrow next week because I'm going to ask Nils about that because he's my Chris May writes in. I think you've touched on this topic before, but I'm interested in using my soon to arrive. Kickstarted, a nova water circulator to temper a ginger a decoctions. What do you think about decoction as a wound? Yeah. In a pot. I make ginger beer often and typically make my primary decoction by boiling blended ginger for the last 8 minutes of a 15 minute boil. Recently, I started supplementing cold pressed ginger juice and water in my batches after the initial boil. However, raw cold pressed ginger juice is way too astringent and aggressive. In my initial experiments, I found that even microwaving the ginger juice to as low as 120 Fahrenheit softens the jagged edges of the raw

[38:46] ginger and makes it pop. But I would like precision control, the ginger decoction temperature for future recipes, keeping it as raw slash strong as possible. My question is this, is a water circulator, uh, like the you know of an acceptable preceding tool to heat the 2 to 4 cups of my ginger decoction? My primary concerns are cleaning the circulator adequately, and harming the circulator somehow. Here's what you do. Put it in a ziploc bag and then put the ziploc bag in the water. Bang, done, right? Boom, boom. Or yeah, just do that. And then if you want it to flash off, you can leave the ziploc bag open and clip it to the sides of your circulator. I've done that a 1000000 times. Boom, done. Hooked you up on that. Second question, can you describe the effects of heat on an aromatic such as ginger? I assume it's not denaturing the ginger, since there's no protein, there are proteins, but there are no proteins that are on

[39:26] a retangling, but I'd love to get some kind of theoretical insight into the transformation from raw ginger to the warm, transcendent

[39:31] melange, just a bit of heat provides. Many thanks and keep it up. Chris May. Okay. So, um, Ginger has a bunch of stuff going on. They're volatile aromatics. These things dissipate on heating even low heating, such that dried ginger, which is rarely heated above 40 degrees Celsius, often loses a huge percentage of its volatiles over time. So what you're doing when you do that is you're losing your citrus notes and things like this. Then the non-volatile side, which we'll call the pungent side, primarily in the raw ginger, you have these things called ginger rolls. And the ginger rolls are changed, even with mild heat over prolonged times, or with higher heats for longer times, into these things called

[40:09] shogels and zinjerones. And those are less pungent. So like as you change, you change the flavor and the pungency. And there are some kinetics, you can look online. I've just downloaded a book called Spice Chemistry, and I'm going to read it a little bit more. But even low temperatures like you're describing, will, one, drive off the volatiles and radically change what's going on, and B, will, uh, wieldy nature, if you

[40:33] hold, not denature, but will, will, uh, hydrolyze uh, ginger roll to its other components. Now, if you're at like ADC, like, you know, by the time you've gone for like 5 hours at ADC, you've already, you know, hydrolyzed like half of the ginger

[40:46] all that's present. So, and also a lot depends on what variety you're starting with. You started with the Jamaican ginger, African ginger, Asian ginger, how old was it when it was picked, et cetera, et cetera, because the longer it grows underground, the more fibrous it gets, and kind of the harsher it

[41:00] gets. anyway. Uh, so that was, uh, that was that. I'm about to get kicked off. So I'll just say that the other questions, I will answer next week. I had some questions on the Twitter about putting oysters. Remember the old oyster trick I used to do? Remind me to talk about that next week. And we'll come back next week with the cooking issues. Thanks for listening to this program on Heritage Radio Network.org. You can find all of our archived programs on our website or as podcasts in the iTunes store by searching Heritage Radio Network. You can like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter at Heritage underscore radio. You can email us questions at any time at info at heritageradionetwork.org. Heritage Radio Network is a nonprofit organization. To donate and become a member, visit our website today.

[41:49] Thanks for listening.