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[1:09] For more information, visit whole foodsmarket.com. This is Chef Emily Peterson, host of Sharp and Hot. You're listening to Heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick, Brooklyn. If you like this program, visit heritageradionetwork.org for 1000s more.

[1:30] Hello and welcome to Cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues, coming to you live in Roberta's Pizzeria on Heritage Radio Network in Bushwick,

[1:38] Brrr, Hookland, joined as usual, witness, Tasha, the Hammer Lopez. And we got Jack over there, the engineer booth, do we not? Yeah we do. Is Wyatt there? I thought I was a Wy. Why it's here. Good Wide, how you doing? How you guys doing? We're good. Yeah. So I have something for you, Anastasia. Wait, is this mine? Yeah. I signed it. on the blue page. I'm handing her, for those of you that can't see because this is the radio. Oh, that's so nice. I'm handing her her personal copy of Liquid Intelligence, the new book, which is not officially out, but we'll be out soon. We're going to do a signing tomorrow at or the after tomorrow in Madison, because we're going to Madison, Wisconsin. You want to talk about what we're doing over there? Uh, fundraiser for MoFad, and you're doing a lecture on food science. Doing electron food science. And we have another book signing at Star Chefs, which is next week. Can you believe it? Can you believe it? No, Starsh is here. She's messing with somebody else. You have to pay no attention to statia. Nostasia loves like the so inside joke. It's not funny for anyone else. It's not, but you don't have to comment on it. just for you. Yeah, oh, just for me. All right, so by the way, I don't know whether you guys know this, but I'm sure you do. Like, here at the radio show, Nastasia is the hammer, right? But her official, like, job description is she keeps the wheels on the bus at Booker and Dax. Now I was thinking about this, right? How is, because to me, that always implied that you were the bus driver, right? So then I was like, well, how is it? Well, well, yeah, but I just assumed you were also driving it, which I was always wondering, like, how is it that you end up underneath the bus so often? And I think it's because the bus, you know, is so rickety, the wheels are always falling off the dang

[3:16] bus and you have to go underneath. You're under fixing it and then as soon as you get the wheel on. Yeah, the jackflies out. Yeah, or they're just like, oh, wheel seems to be working out, boom, boom, boom. Oh, what was that? I'm sure it's fine. Sure, it's fine. Right? Yeah. And I just thought about that. Like, you know, on the way over. I was like, that's how that's how this stuff happens. Yeah. All right, so listen, I'm going to tackle some of the questions from last week, and then we'll get some of the questions from this week. We didn't do liquid smoke, did we? I wasn't here earlier, love. I don't think we did liquid smoke. I don't think so either. Brian wrote in about liquid smoke. Hey, y'all, happy October, because he said happy October. I had to get it now before it's not October anymore. You know what I mean? Oh, by the way, next week, the book signing is during the radio show. So we either have to like, we either have to do a live from Star Chefs and then like, you know, pipe it in, like beforehand, maybe, or postpone. It up to you. We could probably get in there and do Starshifts if you want to do it from Starshift. Man, too bad we couldn't do the book signing here. at the radio show. You could, like, answer questions and sign books at the same time. Yeah, I mean, Star Chefs is like, it's with kitchen arts and letters, which, as everybody who's been there knows is like the most awesome food bookstore like ever. And every year they have a booth at Star Chefs. And so they do book signings there. So I'm going to do in there, but have you guys ever gone to Star Chefs? I've actually never been. No, but I mean, has the radio show been there? I mean, not our radio show, but... The radio hosts have yeah. Yeah, next week. It's the international chess conference, which is unfortunate that it's the same as ICC, which is international culinary

[4:51] center. Always. Always some problem. Oh, it's some problem. Always got to be some problem. Brian writes. Thanks for all your tips on helping me prevent another allergic reaction. You sure we didn't do this? Anyway, shout out to Michael Nakkin for underscoring the severity of allergies. So far, so good for me. I'm keeping my flower in the freezer. But I have another question. I did this. Yeah, you did the good catch. About liquid smoke? Yep. Well, for those of you that didn't listen to last. give you the 52nd redux on liquid smoke. Liquid smoke is an actual honest to God product. It's been around a long time. There's a lot of places you can look up on how to make your own liquid smoke. The problem with liquid smoke that you buy in the store is most of it is just like kind of monotonic and not that good, but it is derived from real

[5:35] smoke and they most of the time remove a lot of the carcinogenic stuff.

[5:40] So, uh, are you sure? I'm right, because I remember that intro. Yeah, we think it's from like 3 weeks ago. Really? Yeah. Wow. Well, did I talk about, uh, Salady Schwoz? Yeah. But I discussed with my ideal salad, Schwaz? You know, the weird thing is, is like, so style. Do you like Saudi Schwadz? I want to do it. So when you think about it, like what do you think of most? What's the 1st thing you think of when you think of tuna, right? So, and if you go to the, you know, Wikipedia, which, you know, have they got their money yet? Are you allowed to go with them without them pitching money or is it still always like, give us money, give us money? think that's over. Okay. So if you go to the Wikipedia. It says that a salad dishoise is composed of tomatoes, tuna, hard-boiled eggs, nicheoise, duh, and anchovies, dressed with a vinaigrette, is served variously on a plate, platter, and a bowl with or without a bed of

[6:31] lettuce. The tuna may be cooked or canned. And then a bunch of other stuff. salad may include raw red peppers. No. No, it may not. Raw red peppers? No. First of all, the beans in there? Where the beans? needs beans. Anyway, may include shallots and artichoke cards. But according to many sources, excludes cooked vegetables except for green beans and potatoes, which I think have to be there. The boiled potatoes and the green beans have to be there if it's not, like, what the hell? Like, 1st of all, you need the potato to go with the anchovy and the tuna and the horrible. anyway, whatever. It needs the potato and the green beans, all that other stuff, artichoke cards. Listen, I love artichoke cards, but don't be putting that artichoke cards in the initial sauce. But anyway, I figured, what the hell do I know? I just know what I like, right? I don't know, like, you know, like, it's an actual thing that you can go kind of try to figure out what it is.

[7:18] So I went to Escoffier, right? Scoffier. and then, uh, Escoffier, interesting. I have all these pictures in my phone. I can get to him. I just literally like on the way over here took pictures of the recipes. So let's see what uh, what my man uh, Escoffier wrote. Now, Escoffier says, that it is equal quantities of string beans, potato dice, and something with

[7:40] tomatoes. decorate. I can't see because it got cut off because I'm a jerk. Uh, others, uh, and quartered tomatoes, which and whatever. Decorate with capers, small pitted olives, small pitted dolls. What the hell kind of translation is small pitted olives. I mean, like we're such brutes that we can't like get the actual kind of olive. Like, 1st of all, like, this was translated in the 70s, I think. This is a really old copy I have. So that, like, you know, whatever. Like, you know, we were a different country back in the 70s. But if you, 1st of all, pitted olives. Have you ever had pitted olives in Anishwas? Have you ever had someone pit out the Neeshwazalas for you? Me neither. Do people, how do you, I wouldn't want to go... I feel that you would mutilate a new Schwaz olive by pitting it, right? Anyway, Pitt at all. 1st of all, back in the 70s, like you'd be like, we got the 2 kinds of olives. We got the green ones with the pimento and we got the black ones. Which one? If once you're going to say small. you might as well just call out the olive because back then it was the same amount of impossible. Same impossible anyway. Uh, and anchovy filets uh, seasoned with oil and vinegar. What's that recipe missing? Uh, fish? Tuna. There's no tuna in that, right? Also, I don't see the, was it hard-boiled egg in there? Don't see the hard boiled egg. Right? So I was like, 1st of all, I was like, this made me doubt everything else in this book. I was like, this book is a load of malarkey. Like you need, we need to throw this book away. I need to burn it and go buy a new copy of the scoffier, right? So then where did I go next? I went to Pella Pratt, which is one of my favorite old school books. And in Pella Pratt, you got string beans, potatoes, hard-boiled eggs, anchovy filets, green, pitted olives, green. I don't consider niche wise green, do you? I consider them like kind of grayish. kind of grayish, brownish. maybe a greenish grayish brownish. And vinaigrette dressing, right? Peel the potatoes cooked in their jackets, cut them into small dice. Okay, whatever. they're not doing the nice little footballs Do you like the footballs? Boiled footballs. you like the football shape? Like, I think at the FCI, they used to do the football shape. You know, they used to turn the potatoes. anyway, cut the beans in squares. I don't really know what that means. Cut a bean in a square. anyway. Cook them in salted boiling water, cool and drain, mixed vegetables, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Guess what? No freaking. Oh, wait. And then it said, if like, if liked, neat chunks of tunny fish preserved in oil.

[10:04] So that's like, like that's like putting it as like a, what's it called? as, you know, a, uh, you know, maybe you can have it. maybe you can't. I then looked in Herring's dictionary of classical modern cookery, another old school one that has a lot of French stuff, and there as well, although they call it

[10:18] nice salad. Like, why would you translate the town, the whatever? Um, that's like, that's like, uh, like Milanese translating it as Milan. Who the hell would do that? Uh, Anyway, it's like, uh, French beans, quarters of peeled tomatoes and fancy fancy shaped potatoes. So they have the turned potatoes, by the way. That's what fancy shaped potatoes means. You know what I'm talking about the footballs? No. I like football. You do like football. You like football? Well, you know, if you actually went through the SCI. Like you spend the 1st week just turning potatoes into like little footballs and they make you go home and

[10:53] like like convert like £50 of potatoes into little footballs. I hope they still do that because that was the whole point of going to the schools making the footballs. Garnish with anchovy filets, olives, capers, and original French dressing, whatever the hell that means, right? That's some sort of OG French dressing, no tuna. And finally, I went to the source, uh, uh, LaRusse

[11:11] Gastronameek, and, uh, there... They also have no freaking tuna, but they say sprinkle with chopped

[11:20] Shervil and tarragon, which sounds nice. I like Sherville and tarragon together. So there you have it. Like all these old school stuff from the 60s, like some of it closely related to the fresh deck coming

[11:28] out, with tuna at most, an optional thing. So I wonder at what point niche was became a tuna heavy thing. Or you prefer fresh tuna, like seared, or do you prefer the canned tuna? Either. I think I like the canned with hard boiled eggs. I think with hard boiled eggs, I like the can. Yeah, that's true with eggs, canned. And do you go for that fancy, the flot stuff, the Italian stuff? Yeah, that stuff's good. Do you spend the extra money on like Ventresca or do you not, not that kind of a spending time? You don't know where I'd get it. But, you know, like the one. Yeah, yeah, it's good stuff. But anyway, I also like it with fresh tuna, but apparently they're both bastardizations. Strange, huh? Weird, weird. Okay. Enough about niche wise. Let's see what else. Okay, Christopher Bass. Christoph wrote in. his name's not Bass, about Bass. And I don't think we talked about this. We've been cooking black bass, fresh from the lake for 2 hours at 128 Fahrenheit, which by the way, for you, Celsius folks out there. is 53.333. It turns out more tender, delicious. It turns out tender, delicious, and cooked to perfection. I did not realize that some fish benefit from longer cook times. Usually fish doesn't hold up well to long cook times, even at lower temperatures, I would add, especially at lower temperatures. Here are my questions. I'm not sure what to call this effect that happens there, tenerization or is it just not getting mushy for some reason. I mean, I think that's it. The problem is when you're cooking fish, Here's the thing that like, you know, when you cook meats, you're looking to make them more tender. Fish starts out tender and what you're looking to do is have it not go mushy and not go dry,

[13:02] right? So fish, there's kind of 2 things that can happen to it. It can stay moist, but turn mushy. That stinks, or it can go dry. I hate dry fish. Stas. What do you think about like overcooked swordfish? Look, I know you're not supposed to, whatever. You're not supposed to have any more back when I was a kid, everything was swordfish steak, this swordfish steak, that. We didn't care if like, you know, giant worms came out. I didn't we didn't give a rat's ass. Everyone, rats patoot, rather. We didn't care. Everyone had this swordfish, but, you know, you would douse that sucker in oil and cook the hell out of it. Just cook the hell out of it. Like sometimes like in a freaking oven. Just cook the hell. Remember how they used to have all these recipes for fish that you would cook in an oven? just throw the fish in a freaking oven, uh, and, and, just like stringy, blah, like, like, hard, core, overcooked swordfish, so many memories.

[13:52] And then and then they're like, well, if we're going to overcook it, why not overcook shark? Remember when everyone used to eat shark? Like back in like the 80s, like shark steaks, like overcooked freaking shark steaks. They were good because you salted the hell out of them. But they were otherwise, do you remember the, you were too young, but do you remember the 1980s pork chop? The thin, overcooked dry pork shop? My mom did those. At least call like the new white meat, right? Yeah, it was a new, it was a new white meat. The new crap meat. Like, everyone, like, always, like, overcooked swordfish over, whatever. I don't know how I got out of this. But so the point is, is that you're always in this race. When you're doing low temperature, you don't have to overcook it so that it gets dry, but the problem is it can get mushy and it can also get squeaky. So like overcooked swordfish is not only dry. I don't know what I'm talking about swordfish. I haven't even had a swordfish in like years. You're not supposed to eat anymore, right? I don't know. didn't know that. I know, Jack, is that on the do not eat list? I mean, I'll go check Monterey Bay and see what they say. I mean, I haven't eaten it in years, so I don't worry about it. I do avoid tuna when I'm out. I do avoid the bluefin, though I love it. Does everyone avoid the bluefin now when they go out? When you eat sushi, do you avoid a bluefin? Uh, do I have it, no? I mean, if someone orders it and it shows up, like I'll eat it, but I would never order it, even though I love it. Why can't you, shouldn't you eat it? Because it's going to be extinct. I mean, they're ruining. ruined. Like, you know, it's, it's, it's, you know. But the whole, like, all the fish are going to get the Japanese... What?

[15:20] The Kindai people? No, the radiation anyway. So, you know. Stas just saying, might as well eat it now because I think that's going a little bit overboard. I mean, like hopefully we'll get some sort of Godzilla tuna that will, you know, come on land and eat us

[15:35] all, breathe fire, some sort of giant Godzilla tuna. It's kind of like weird. I hadn't thought about it, that the monster films like are predicated on like this excess radiation. like after. Yeah, well, it's all like these things come out of Japan, you know, after, you know, we drop the atomic bomb and

[15:52] like kind of obsessed with radiation. Godzilla is a product of radiation. And so, you know, now they have actual other kind of sources of radiation over there. I wonder whether it's going to spur some sort of, you know, gamara of the sea. Swordfish is okay, by the way, unless you're getting long line caught imported swordfish. You don't want that. Yeah, or unless you overcook it, you definitely don't want to Definitely don't want that. Definitely, definitely don't want that. Anyway, so back to Christoph and his best. This is a lakefish. I don't even know what the heck we're talking about all these. Anyway. So, or is it just not getting mushy for some reason? So a lot, like, look, uh, I don't have a lot of experience

[16:27] with uh, with uh, freshwater fish uh, sous vide, uh, with the exception of trout, uh, but, you know,

[16:34] I know that certain fish get really crappy when they're cooked for a long time and certain don't.

[16:40] And, uh, you know, you referenced, um, I think you referenced the blog

[16:43] posts where I did the uh, stripers and stripers can stand for a long time. I think maybe because they're relatively firm, so they don't go mushy on you. Like they, they are relatively firm fish, which is why I think when they're overcooked, they're

[16:55] like even stripers when they're, do you like, you like stripers, right, Stuff? But when they're overcooked, they're a little hard, right? That's why I think like it can stand up to it. It's got a little more structure to it because it's a strong freaking fish. You know what I mean? Uh, anyway, so, and I tried to look up for you because there's 2 things that go wrong. One, there's connective tissue that gets broken down over cooking, right? And two, there are enzymes in fish that break down the flesh, which is why some

[17:21] things like shellfish, for instance, go super mushy when you cook a low temperature. So those are the 2 things that you're, uh, that you're looking at, but I wasn't able to find any actual, um,

[17:31] any listing of fish. What you're looking for is, uh, the 2 proteases that are in it are,

[17:38] uh, cat, uh, conceptions, which I can't pronouncing cow paint. I cannot pronounce it, but like, these are what's breaking down, the fish, and I couldn't find any listing of which ones have more enzymes in them and which ones don't. I think McGee might have just a ready reference of which ones get mushier in on food and cooking. I should have looked there, but stupidly, I did not. Anyway, um, So that's, uh, so that's, that's it. What do you think? Anything, right? It hard to know. You just have to know. So if you know that the black bass is can take a long time without going mushy, then that's good to know.

[18:10] Just watch out for squeakiness. Man, I hate squeakiness. Um, Okay, now, uh, also, by the way, I was while I was researching that question, I found an interesting article that you guys might be interested in, um, called, see if I was stupid enough to, I was too stupid to write it down, but it's, uh, there's a table I found called slaughter conditions on the glycogen concentration, 3

[18:35] minutes, uh, postmortem and chicken breast muscle, which is a fantastic looking article because they anesthet-

[18:41] they did anesthetizing of the chicken, stunning of chicken, a struggling chicken, and it's adapted for an article I wasn't able to find by a person named

[18:48] Defremrie in 1966. But it's the only reference I have to anesthetized slaughtering practices in a chicken. So if anyone can find that article is sent to me, I'd be super happy. I think I found that in uh, and maybe I found that in the biochemistry of foods, which is uh, the Shahid's 2013 version. Anyway, if you didn't explain Justina, it was just like, eh, I came with up with the name. Stas is reading the book Liquid Intelligence. Here's why. So the technique is called Hustino. where we blend. Uh, you know, we blend a product like most often like a fruit or sometimes a dried fruit, sometimes a vegetable, Nick Bennett does mushrooms, into a liquor with Pectinex,

[19:23] ultra SPL. We spin it in a centrifusion. It goes clear again, and you get these like awesome liquor. So we call them Hustino. And I originally in the book wrote the whole story about how fabulous. And we were running around screaming Justino at the top of our lungs, which is actually just a bastardization of a chef we knew named Justin.

[19:39] And so we just used to walk around the kitchen going, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

[19:44] oh, like this, like running around, this reporter calls and asks for, because we're stupid. And this reporter comes and says, what's the name of this drink? This banana drink that you did, you know, because we need to write about it. And we were like, banana, banana, banana. Ostino. Stino. And then like they printed it. And then that was it. It was called Justino, and it was too late to go back. But then when I wrote this story, Jen's like, this is the dumbest freaking story in the world. This is so freaking stupid. Like, you can't put this in the book because A, it, like, there's no context to it. Like the rest of the book isn't about you running around like an idiot. It's about you running around like trying to figure out how to make things better. And it's just, it's coming out of, out of nowhere. And so it's better just to be like, called Justino. I don't know why. I don't know why it's called Ustino. See? All right? Fair. guess. Fair. Uh, okay. Uh, we already did the uh, do we did the Hashi food truck one, right? With the sausage? Did we do it briefly last week? Hashi Food Truck Rowanas? Remember an issue where you covered brats or sausages, immersion with beer? Can you share tips again? We did that one, right? I wasn't here last week, Jack. I think we did that. You keep saying you're not here this week. How am I supposed to remember that? How am I supposed to remember that from 12nd to the next? Oh, yeah, you were, where were you hacking up lungs last week or something? You're like, you're like hacking your lungs up all over the floor. Nice. That stuff's going around. Sam wrote in. This one I know I haven't gotten to. Can you discuss the merits of an auto life step in breadmaking? I find it much easier to mix the salt in with the flour initially, uh, rather than mixing into the dough after an autolized step. Thanks, Sam. Okay, so, Autolizer, Autolizer, or however you're

[21:26] pronounced, right? Is that is it French? Anyway, life's meaning breaking up. And so the original, this comes from a dude, dead dude, by the way, died in 2005 named Raymond

[21:38] Calvel, who was kind of one of the best known kind of teachers and authors about bread in his

[21:45] era. I mean, like everyone kind of read, uh, you know, his book. Um, and uh, I think, according to the, my reference, he was a professor of baking. That's pretty sweet. professor of baking. I kind of want to be a, not really. But I mean, it's a good title. Would you take that title? I mean, you don't even do you like to bake? No, I hate it. But you still would take it, right? Professor of baking. You could be like on the on the anti-side. You could be like, you could be like that divinity professor that's an atheist. Yeah, she'd be radical professor. Yeah, right, right. Like, she'd be the one that everyone kind of moved away from at the at the at the baking professor conferences. Anyways, yeah, you know that person. You've seen them. It's does. Um, So anyway, he taught Julia Child and Simone Beck. So there's a good pedigree, right? Anyway, dude came up with this idea of an auto life step. And so what he thought was happening. Oh, what is it? What are we talking about? Okay. So, uh, you mix together, uh, like the water and yeast and the flour, not the salt, and you do an initial mix, right? And you let it sit around before you need it, right? So you don't need it right away, right, with a K. need with a K. And, uh, so what he thought was happening there was that, um, And I forget, maybe it's done as a higher hydration. I can't remember whether it's done as a higher hydration because I actually, uh, let me see. Uh, well, we'll look at anyway. So, uh, What you're, he thinks is happening is that Amilase enzymes in the starch are breaking in the

[23:14] flour, are breaking down some of the starch into sugars for food for the yeast, right? I think that's why it's called auto lease. The thing is, like performing, like, uh, lice means to break apart, right? So things are being broken down in it on its own. And then you need it and then you let it go. But, I mean, I think that's the origin of the term, but I don't think anybody

[23:34] really does that anymore, right? I don't think that's the reason why people do that rest anymore. So it should probably come up with a different name. I think what's happening, what most people say they're doing when they do is they let it rest. And by the way, the reason you don't put the salt in and you let it rest without the salt is you're giving the yeast and the other stuff a chance to get started in a 0 salt environment because the salt is

[23:57] a yeast inhibitor, right? Now, remember, this auto lice step is not being done on breads, typically they're, you know, like a lot of people now, when they're doing their breads, especially like higher hydration stuff, or doing some some version of lesser

[24:10] no need, Lahey style, like with, uh, although remember Chesory said, that's my style. Remember that? Yeah. Anyway, no, you know, no need or less need, super long fermented breads. And for those, I mean, I think it's probably ideal to put the salt in at the beginning because you're trying to prevent the yeast from working right away. Anyhoo, whatever. So you are doing it without the salt, and these things are happening, and then, uh, and then you go, but the advantages, I think, are really beyond, uh, any sort of enzymatic action that's happening there. The advantages are, um, you have a period of hydration that's taking place without

[24:46] uh, needing, right? There's also some jump starting of the yeast. But even if you were to add the salt and let it rest, right, what you're getting there is a period of hydration. And, you know, a lot of studies are that the gluten formation is really a function just of hydration, which is why you, if you're letting the dough sit for a long, long time,

[25:03] like, like, like many, many, many hours, you don't need to need it or you need much less needing because the gluten

[25:10] will, in fact, form without all of that beating about, right, just by sitting around, especially if the hydration's high enough. So this step is allowing you to get some hydration into it so that you don't need to do as much

[25:20] needing. And the benefit of not having to do as much needing is things like less oxidation and other things. I think that's the reason people do it now. But I wish we had talked about it. Um, you know, like a month and a half ago when the question came in and when I was more freshly

[25:36] uh, thinking about uh, what's going on. But anyway, that's my feeling on it. Um, you want to take a, can we take a super quick break or are we totally shafted? Were totally shafted, aren't we? We can take a super quick break. do a super quick break. See if I can do that real quick.

[25:57] Today's program has been brought to you by Whole Foods Market. Are you a locovore? Our Northeast Regional Forger for Whole Foods Market sure is. She spends her time traveling around the New York City metro area sourcing the best new or interesting artisanal and handcrafted local products for our purchasing teams at the local store

[26:15] level. Part of our commitment to our local suppliers includes assisting them with the process of getting their

[26:21] products sold at our stores, whether it's suggesting packaging designs, pricing, or distribution methods. She's helping some of the area's best new products reach savvy shoppers at Whole Foods Market stores. Today, New York, tomorrow, the world. For more information, visit Whole Foods Market.com. All right, here's a here's probably the last one we're going to have time for, right? We're going to have to do another freaking catchup. Like whether or not we do it at Star Chefs. I can give you till one p.m. on the dot and then the buzzer goes off. Like that? Yeah. Okay. Josh Watson wrote in at cooking issues. Could you please give a basic intro into vacuum bag, fermentation, pickling safety on this week's show, uh, carbonated, and

[27:03] then uh, hashtag, um, carbonated kimchi. So, um, Good question. So the question, look, whenever you're doing something like sauerkraut or kimchi,

[27:16] right? you're automatically in an anaerobic fermentation situation, right? So from a safety standpoint, you shouldn't be any different whether or not that anaerobic fermentation is happening in the bottom of your pickle jar or your sauerkraut jar or whatever your, you know, your kimchi

[27:39] jar or whether or not it's happening inside of a vacuum

[27:44] bag. So, Things like, uh, you know,

[27:49] this most of the spore forming uh, bacteria, they're going to grow, uh, you know, in a in a bad kind of a

[27:54] fermentation uh, situation. Um, are going to, like, they're not going to compete so well if you have a whole bunch of lactic acid bacteria growing in there at the same time because the pH is going to

[28:08] drop, and the, um, and the salt level is going to, uh, you're adding salt typically.

[28:14] I mean, I wouldn't necessarily do it with super low salt, just because, I don't know, I'm not comfortable with it. But, um, So you're putting salt in, and then, uh, your, your, the lactic acid

[28:27] bacteria, making a lower pH, and this is what's preventing the nasty stuff from growing in there. So the 1st thing to kind of realize is that there's fundamentally not that much of a difference between doing it the old school way and doing it in a vacuum

[28:43] bag. Now, when you're doing, um, one of the disadvantages of doing it the old school way is that most people, let's say you're salting

[28:51] cabbage when you're salting cabbage. Uh, a lot of people add water because they don't have enough water from the cabbage itself to, you know, make a nice crowd or

[29:00] whatever. Now, I know, I was talking to Lucas, actually, you know, a listener, uh, who, uh, friend of ours, and he, like, beats the crap out of the cabbage with the salt so that it starts leaking enough liquid so that it can immerse itself in liquid white away, so

[29:16] it doesn't have to worry about it. But, you know, or like I know, like if you're making kimchi, you're rubbing the salt in and letting it sit for a while, it kind of pre-weeps and you have enough liquid to repack into it. So that's one way to get around it. But literally, You just throw the stuff in vacuum bags, and you suck a vacuum on it, and shaboom, 1st of all, you've injected, uh, the liquid and the salt into the, uh, into the product, which obviates the need to beat the crap out of

[29:43] it, because you're crushing some of the, you know, you're getting the stuff into the, into the pores anyway as it is. And uh, the other cool thing is, is that they're super neat little tidy packages, right? You don't need to have that giant croc that you push down. You don't have to worry about the giant croc that you push down. And it's just really clean and neat. The problem with, um, the vacuum bags when you're doing it is that, um, they blow up. I mean, and they can explode. So what I always do is I bag in one, I throw it in

[30:13] uh, to uh, another bag and I lightly bag that one. I don't like bother, you know, sucking a huge vacuum on it. And so that way, and it's a larger bag. That way, if the if the smaller bag on the inside inflates to the point where it blows up, it just blows up into your bag, not into, you know,

[30:33] another thing. Now this, this is conducive to, um, if you need to do a bunch of portions and have them, uh, you know, like you want to

[30:41] have like, you know, like a quart at a time that coming out. Not as conducive if you're doing like 55 gallon barrels because there it's much more efficient to just beat the stuff down, put it in a giant 55 gallon barrel and let it rock and roll. Even like a gallon, I would say, just do it in a normal way. But if you're doing like a, you know, ahead of cabbage or two, I would say a vacuum bag is a really, really good way to go and totally safe. And I've done it many, many times. Now, it will not allow the CO2 escape as much, so it will get lightly carbonated, and we spoke to Alex Naki from ideas and food. They detest it. I love it. Do you like a little carbonation in your in your pickles or in your in your kimchi? Do you like kimchi? I don't choose to eat it. With that side bread. Yeah. I like Jack. Jack's like, really? on. kimchi. I see a pizza with salad. Do you not like kimchi because everyone loves it? Or do you actually does not like it? I don't choose to eat it. I don't mind kimchi. just never order it. Yeah? All right. So, uh, I had something we had something else that we were doing like right now that I needed to talk that we needed to talk on air about. to apologize. That's it. Okay, so listen. Are they almost all done? How many? Yeah. We have 3 that are shipping. Seersols. Okay, we're talking about the se resolves on the way out. So 1st of all, you know, we would like to apologize for how long it took us to get this stuff out in general, uh, and like Stas and I are, we're talking about a

[32:09] seersol, uh, which have shipped. Uh, I frankly am shocked at, I am like so shocked. Like, I am beyond shocked and angered at Amazon, how long it took them to fulfill the orders, how long they had those

[32:25] sears alls in their warehouse and shipping it out. And what's really depressing is that no one believes us. You know what I mean? They like, it's Amazon. They should put the next day. And then, remember, like, so, like, we sent them to stuff, we had some errors in our addresses, so we gave them an updated address list for, and then Amazon decided last week to then suddenly start selling them live. live. Before all of our Kickstarter and shopstarter people had gotten their orders in. And then Stas, like, calls me, like, while I'm working on something,

[32:56] it freaks out, and we, like, losing our minds, and then when we tell people this is this mistake, There's people who don't believe us. Like, why would we want to, Why would we want to not fulfill the

[33:11] thing? And I say, so Stas very quickly called Amazon, had it pulled, had all of those orders canceled. The good news is as many as she could. Some had already been shipped out, but not a lot. The good news is, is that all, but you said three? Yeah three. All but three. Do we have the names of the people? Or do you not want to read them out? We don't want to read them out. All but 3 of you have gotten your Sears all notification. Most of you have it in the mail already. We've been checking. Oh, yeah. And the internationals, you know, obviously are going to take longer because of custom, so... Right, but they've all been shipped. The Internationals were shipped long ago. Yeah, but it's gonna... Yeah, it has to go through custom segment. But every, everything but these last 3 seriesols, these 3 lonely seriesols have been shipped out. So we're super excited. We're going to have the steak decorator coming in soon. I hope, the proto that we're going to approve. And if you haven't gotten yours or any confirmation. email, seerswell at bookerandax.com. Yeah, if you have, if you have not gotten an email saying you're going to receive your sears all, like, we think you have. That's not like 0 email at all, 0 from anything. UPS, UPS, Amazon, whatever, whatever. If you have heard nothing, email that address. Yeah, but I'm also super happy that people seem to be enjoying it to have it. So I'm very gratified. I love all the Twitter stuff that you guys are sending with the with the

[34:33] seresols coming in. One thing I will say on the way out, people are like, there's some flame coming out of the

[34:38] front. Is this normal? Hell yeah, right? Oh, yeah. Doesn't see her some. Sears all cooking issues. Thanks for listening to this program on heritageradionetwork.org. You can find all of our archive programs on our website or as podcasts in the iTunes

[34:59] store by searching Heritage Radio Network. You can like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter at Heritage underscore radio. You can email us questions anytime at info@heritageradionetwork.org. Heritage Radio Network is a 501 C3 nonprofit. To donate and become a member, visit our website today. Thanks for listening.