[0:00] Today's program was brought to you by Fairway Market like no other market. A New York City institution that sells the best local, national, and international artisan foods for prices that can't be beat. For more information, visit fairwaymarket.com. Hey, hey, hey, I'm Jimmy Carbone from Beer Sessions Radio. You're listening to Heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick, Brooklyn. If you like this program, visit heritageraternetwork.org for 1000s more.

[0:37] Hello and welcome to Cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you late. Late! On Roberta, at Roberta's Pizzeria there. Ready for your network? In Bushwick. Brooklyn, calling your questions too, 718-497. What's the 497?, 2128? You got it. 718-497-2128. Uh, we are so late, in fact, that I'm going to have to, uh, well,

[0:59] while I'm calling up the stuff. We can have some of the niceties, but we have no time for the normal niceties. We can't be nice today. No niceties. But we do have a caller who's been patiently waiting. Oh, geez. Caller, you are on the air. Hey Dave, it's Michael Napkins. Hey, how you doing? I'm doing fantastic. How are you? All right. I hear you running late today. Yes. Yes, I am. But I'm sure you know that well enough to call in late and only have to wait a couple of minutes. Right. I've got the whole schedule figured out. No problem. I just wanted to let you know, I just got this cocktail book. I don't know if you heard about it yet, called Liquid Intelligence. Oh, I have heard of that. I hear it's terrible. Yeah, I'm actually I'm learning a lot from this book. It's fantastic. Yeah, there are as I think you point out a couple of other people. There are a couple of typos in it that we're going to fix for the next printing. There's just so many... There's so many Yeah, there's so many data points in it that, um, you know, for those of you that are listening, uh, like one of the Manhattan recipes, I think, Michael, you might have pointed this out along

[1:59] with a, along with a couple other people. Like, a one just got dropped. So it says a fat 3 quarters of vermouth instead of one and 3 quarters, right? Is that you that playing that out? Yeah. Yeah. I did notice that. But you know what? My book has a millionaires, and you wouldn't believe the errata section from ours cuisine. So, you know, don't go bad. Yeah. Also, we had a weird thing where the, the, when they did the layout on one of the charts, like a bunch of the acid percentages got switched into just weird numbers.

[2:25] Don't worry, people. We'll get it all fixed. But despite all that, you know, forget little details, man. This is a great book. I'm really, really enjoyed it. learning so much about like the details of how things chill and different kinds of textures and the different aspect ratios and

[2:38] everything. My, uh, I've always been a kind of a seat of the pants cocktail maker, and I can see this is going to up my game considerably. Nice. I appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah, I just wanted to, just wanted to say that because, uh, yeah, I'm really looking forward to working my way through the whole thing. All right, sweet, and, uh, you know, one of the things in the book that, um, you know, addressing in

[2:58] the in the future is that, uh, currently our lime, uh, clarification technique that I use, you know, you wouldn't use it at home. You wouldn't use it if you didn't have a centrifuge. Or if you had a really good centrifuge, like, you know, when I say good, I mean, you know, upwards of 40,000

[3:14] G's or something like this. Um, you know, you could clarify lime juice without any of the clarification aids that I

[3:20] use. But I think one of the things for research may maybe you can look into it. Uh, is uh, this uh, fungal kaida sand. The, because the one thing that we use, it's not vegetarian, is this

[3:32] kaida sand, which is derived from shrimp cells. non-allergenic. I'm not worried about it from a seafood allergy standpoint. And it is spun out, so it's not in the product that people are consuming, but it is a processing aid that we're using that's of animal origin.

[3:44] And I'd like to be able to get rid of it. So that's like one of the, that's, you know, because I think I might mention somewhere in, I can't remember because it's a long book, but, uh, and I've said it on the air many

[3:53] times, is that I think it's entirely fair for, you know, a vegetarian to assume that they can not worry about the cocktail menu unless, you know, unless it obviously

[4:04] stays something of animal origin, you know? Right, right, right. Although, isn't that the case with some wine finding agents, too? Oh, yeah, but the issue with wine finding agents, no one tells you what they're using. So, you know, Kaidasan is used as a wine finding agent. Right. And, you know, there's, I've always put this in the category of things, I'm not going to worry about too much, but you're right. I probably wouldn't use it myself. Right. Right. Right. That's the thing. So there's a, you know, it's like I've always said, like everyone's drawing a line, right? I mean, you pay taxes to people that eat meat all the time. We, you know, we pay tax. I'm sure like many of the people that, you know, we hire in the government are, you know, not just

[4:39] meat eaters, but like actual bad people, like, you know, torturers, murderers of people, like, you know, mutilators of animals, all kinds of horrible stuff.

[4:47] So it's like a question of like, well, yeah, it's a question of where's the line, you know what I mean? And, like, what, but, you know, it's, I think it's always good to push, uh, I think it's always good to push as far as you

[4:58] can in, you know, in a direction. You always learn, more you push, the more you learn. That makes sense to me. So do you have any ideas of things that can be used instead? Okay, the sign for the line? Well, there is in the, in the, in the EU, there is a, um, a fungally derived

[5:13] kitisan, and we got a sample of it at the bar, but it was one of those things where I didn't have time to run the test myself, and it fell through the

[5:22] cracks, like no one was able to come up with a good protocol for it. It comes in powdered form. And you know, everyone was used to using the solution, the kite of sand solution. So, you know, and I don't know that it's, you know, fully available here in

[5:34] the US, but there's no reason why Kaida San can't be fungally produced. And I think that, you know, with the increasing number of people that want, you know, full disclosure of the processing aids that are used in

[5:47] things that you'll see more of a switch towards it. Because I think just in general, regardless of, you know, regardless of anything, people are like, ah, shrimp shells, you know what I mean? Right. Well, and that latest Lucky Peach pointed out, the shrimp industry is a royal mess, so you know, getting away from that would be good anyhow. Oh, were they talking about the slavery in Thailand? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's horrible. I mean, you know, that 1st came to my attention. I don't know, a couple of months ago, and I was like, I can't believe it. I can't believe it, you know? It's disgusting. Yeah. Well, it just goes to show the more the more you investigate, the worst things are in general, right? This is true. sometimes you don't want to know. Is the clarified lime juice freeze well? No. What about an cryogenic freach? Oh, I've never tried. Like, uh, like actually, like, completely immobilize it, like subbutectic, uh, freezing. Yeah, yeah, we have a ridiculous freezer here. Why don't you try it and tell me? Okay. Yeah, we'll do it because we got the we got a big bad centrifuge in a nice freezer. So yeah, I'll give that a shot. I would freeze it as rapidly as possible so you don't have so you don't have increased concentration effects as it's freezing down. Right, right. If we put stuff flat in a bag and throw it in that freezer, man, it freezes very rapidly. Yeah, let me know. So what I typically do, or now, I've just started doing it with the leftover Clary lime because we have a lot of it, is I sugar it and heat it with a little lime peel and

[7:15] turn, just turn it into a cordial. then it's delicious. Oh, that sounds good too. Yeah. And so it's, you know, it's a cordial that, like, is already clarified. And so you can use it in, you know, stirred drinks for a cordial flavor. And it's quite good because, you know, once you heat it and, you know, once you take old lime juice or sugar and you heat it, then it goes from being that awful old lime juice to being something different, you

[7:37] know? Right, right, right. That makes sense. Sounds amazing. Well, listen, I want to take up your whole show, but great talking to you. Congrats on the book, man. Thanks a lot. next time you're out on this coast. Stop by and see us. I would never miss a chance. All right, bye. Alright, thanks. Bye bye. So we do have one more caller that was waiting. All right, all right, sweet sweet. Call her. are on the air. Hey, David, Stewart from Silver Spring, Maryland. How are you? Hey, doing all right. up? Well, 1st of all, I want to, you know, just echo the last caller. Focus fantastic. You know, went through it pretty quickly. Uh, just a wealth of information there, and it was just, I think one of the things that surprised me the most was just how well, you know, your

[8:15] voice, which I know from, from the radio show came through just amazingly through the book. Like I was, I found myself bursting out laughing in distant sections. So it's just a... Hopefully it wasn't a serious section. Hopefully it wasn't like the section where you were laughing at how like poorly the recipe was going, but... Some of that, some of that. But one complaint that I do have is that you really did tease us with the red hot poker and then you're like, well, I'm not going to tell you how to do it.

[8:39] Well, I mean, look, I mean, the issue with the, I mean, I,

[8:45] I, you know, I can tell anyone how to make it. You know, I can, I could, I don't have it at my fingertips right now, but you know, I'm never going to sell them. So, you know, I have no problem telling people how they're made, except for it's, you know, inherently, you know, if you can weld, you know, and if you can, you know, purchase stuff with a credit card off McMaster Car, you can buy everything, everything that you need for it, you can buy on McMasterCar's website, uh, other than... Yeah, I just figured it

[9:13] was, it was some crazy, uh, you know, legal liability to put those instructions in the book as well. Well, and, I mean, you know, there's it's already 100,000 words as it is. And like, you know, I, you know, I, I don't, what I do explain. I don't pull any punches on it. So, like, if I was going to go into like a full detail, there would be, you know, I'd have to tell you, like, you know, what to look out for when you're welding, like, you know, what wattages to look out for, like, you know, issues I have with different kind of cartridge heaters, um, because it's basically just a high temperature cartridge

[9:43] heater. And I've tried, you know, many dozens of different wattages and

[9:47] lengths and diameters. And I've come up with the one that, you know, can, uh, run, you know, without blowing itself out in the open air because every, every,

[9:59] anytime you use a heater that's powerful enough uh, to burn itself out and try to control it, the control invariably fails with all the thermal cycling.

[10:09] And when the control fails, it always over, it always fails in the direction of getting too hot and then the thing burns out, sometimes spectacularly. So, you know, yeah, so, you know, I can give all this stuff, but then also there's like, you know, there's the, you know, you

[10:25] got to insulate it right when you're wrapping it, you got to weld it right, grind it down. I mean, it's not, none of it's rocket science, you know, like I, you know, back when. It's a lot more work than you kind of mentioned in the book, so we can we said that, I guess. Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, again, if someone wants it, you know, like next week, if you, you know, put the question in or whatever, I can, I can give you the part numbers.

[10:45] Uh, and in fact, I'm going to be I'm going to be making a batch, you know, someone stole our welder, and as soon as we get a welder back in,

[10:54] in, uh, in the shop, I'm going to, I'm going to have to make a batch for this year's red hot pokers. Maybe I'll take some pictures of the process. So I have some actual questions though, just on a couple of things. Um, I was going to ask, uh, you know, similarly about the kitasan. I do keep kosher. So, you know, you mentioned the fungal in the book, but I heard your answers. It seems like there's really not a good alternative at this point. What I was just thinking right now is that I would reach out to maybe some kosher winemakers and see what they use for wine

[11:20] planning agents. Yeah. Um, and, you know, come up with that. Um, the other thing for the uh, the clarified grapefruit juice. I bought a home carbonation rig, I'm going to be making the gin and juice this weekend. How long, I know you mentioned with the lime juice. It doesn't really keep very well. You find the same thing with the grapefice juice as well. No, I would just say like the maximum... Yeah, clarify grapefruit juice, it keeps fairly well. So, you know, I think, you know, a couple of days is not going to be a problem. Are you going to do agar or free thaw? Agger. Okay. I mean, but Agar, what I meant is quick, quick Agar or free saw? Well, which would you recommend? I could do either one If you're going to use it right away, you can do quick, but Nastasia hates doing the quick, right?

[12:05] She hates it. It's like one of the things that she refuses to ever do again. Uh, you know, if you're practiced with quick, the good thing about quick, because it's quick. I typically reserve quick clarification for things like lime and lemon that can't sit

[12:18] around or if I only need a small amount. Like if you only need like, you know, half a liter,

[12:24] then, you know, quick is fine. And because if you lose 250 mils, it's not a big deal. If you're trying to make like 2 gallons of it, You know what I mean? Then quick Agar becomes a bit a little bit of a pain in the butt. And then I would move to freestyle. With freeze thaw, you're gonna have, you know, probably a higher yield, less overall work time, even though it takes longer to do.

[12:44] Uh, and, um, there was another. Oh, yes, and the quick one will eventually, well, the next day, we'll throw a cloud off. So usually if you're going to do quick, do it the day you're going to use it. You know what I mean? You can you can resettle out the cloud, but you know, there will be some agar that's left in the uh, in the, in the liquid that'll then kind of stick together uh, overnight to form kind of cloudiness. So, you know, I would say that, but remember, the free saw takes a couple of days, so you have to start, you know, soon. Okay, yeah, no, because I was doing for dinner on Sunday. So actually, now it sounds like a free sauce, a better method. Um, if I can ask you one more question, it's, uh, um, the, you had a little sidebar in there about eutectic freezing, and tries, I might understand, you know,

[13:32] the principal behind, I actually asked, uh, my brother, who's a chemical engineer and brother-in-law also, and uh, we weren't really sure what was going on there. don't know if you can take a minute to kind of expound on that. Sure. So, um, the, there's a concentration for, uh, you know, all salts in in water where, um,

[13:53] they, there, it kind of thaws, like a, um, like a unitary substance, like water, right?

[14:01] And so it's the point at which, uh, you know, the point at which that happens and the temperature at which that happens. So typically when you're using a eutectic freezing plate, they'll choose the temperature of the plate based on

[14:12] the salts that they put into it, right? And then it freezes and thaws at that concentration. So if you have, if you have less salt, let's say, of whatever salt you're going to choose in your liquid,

[14:26] what'll happen is you'll start crystallizing pure water out, right? You'll then kind of reach the eutectic solution and then it'll start freezing as a solid there. I think that's how it'll work. And then it'll thaw out. Whereas if you start with the percentage, uh, you know, with that kind

[14:42] of, like, you know, magic percentage of, um, of salt in it, uh, it will stay liquid and then freeze at

[14:50] its, at whatever its temper, eutectic, freezing temperature is and then freeze solid. And then as it thaws, it will do the same at the same temperature. So there won't be any temperature drift during the uh, during the freezing and thawing cycle. So it'll... Okay, so it's all about the uniformity of the solution kind of as it's freezing into one thing. Right. So what you don't want to have happen is you don't want to, uh, you don't want, so normally if you just use salt and ice, right, eventually as the

[15:21] salt, as the, as it starts diluting down, the temperature's going to start rising, right? Or conversely, sometimes, you know, if the brine concentration increases because more salt dissolves into it, your temperature can drop. is that, like, you know, like, there's, like, it can go either way. So by using this kind of like, you know, these magic ratios, you can have it act like a pure substance,

[15:43] uh, typically the the specific, uh, the uh, heat of fusion is not as great, I think. I'd have to look back. It's not as great as it would be in a pure water solution, but you still have that kind of constant temperature. And this is used commercially all the time for things like trucks where they'll throw like large plates into a huge, you know, walk in freezer for several days and then throw the plates into a truck or into like a, you know, an ice cream cooler case and then they'll go around and they can keep it, you know, at perfect dipping temperature or storage temperature, whatever they want.

[16:14] I got you. I got you. Okay that makes a lot more sense. All right. All right. Thanks a lot, Dave. All right, thank you. Hey, Jack, I know we only have 5 minutes. You want, you want to do the, you want to, whoever's paid for this episode. You want them to put it up real quick? What's that Oh, we got, we can keep going. We'll put the ad in later. Oh, I like that. It's like to the live listeners to like, nah, whatever. We'll put it in later. We'll put it in later. Nice. By the way, Stas, you want to announce what's going to happen with Amazon later? No, I don't really want to. Okay, because someone called in Quinn Dupont. I was supposed to talk about searing techniques with the series on the radio show. So, uh, searing techniques with the Sears all. All right, I think, you know, in reading the reviews of people that are using it. I think the prime thing, if you think that it's too slow, right? You want to get the sears all much closer to the surface of what you're doing. Uh, the exceptions or thing, things that are dry, like breads go from, like, kind of, you know, uh, totally blonde and they can start burning very quickly because there's not a lot of liquids to moderate it. So those things you have to be a little more careful with. Uh, and so typically breads, I'll hold, waste, waste assist us. Was that, like, 2.5 inches, 3 inches? But about that far away, and I'll move it around. And you can actually, I mean, I shouldn't say this. You can actually like hold things and like manipulate. you know, it's very, you don't have to kind of worry about it. But things like, uh, cheese

[17:40] also usually. Okay, I'll give you this because I'm gonna have to go to another question. Here's what I usually do. I get it down fairly close. I do tiny little circles and I wait for to start seeing sizzle or bubble or

[17:52] movement. And then I'll move away from it and I'll start it in another zone. And by the time I started getting bubbling in a 2nd zone, I could start moving it back and forth like a welder, kind of creating a puddle, not like a puddle, but like kind of creating a zone of

[18:08] searing, just like a welder can when you're moving a MIG welder or an arc welder back and forth by, you know, melting the rod in and forming a puddle.

[18:15] And by doing that, you can keep a relatively large area in kind of fine searing fashion. So, uh, and it's a lot more effective than like hitting and stopping and, you know, moving, you know, moving too quickly, for instance. So the general rule of thumb is, is that for something the size of like a ribsteak, you're going to want to do about a minute,

[18:35] minute, minute and a half per side. Cheese, typically, I'll go really close till it starts bubbling. I pull back a little bit, zip around, and let's say I'm doing like 5 burgers. I'll hit one really hard, go, hit the next one, and then like start moving around until I'm moving around and I'm constantly hitting each one for, you know, a couple of seconds until they're until they're all

[18:55] cooked. You're going to get a better crust in terms of like tac, tac, tac, crust on

[19:01] something by hitting it a couple times and letting it rest a little bit in between. So if you're doing like 3 or 4 steaks, it's a good idea to kind of not do one all the way to the

[19:13] finish and then do the next one all the way to finish, but keep them all little, you know, you know, don't have them

[19:18] to stop entirely, but hit and then come back to, you know, the same one at least twice.

[19:23] I find that's the kind of going to give the best question. Yes? Yeah, all right. And I can give more, you know, more what's it called if anyone wants to know. Okay. Philippe Lament wrote in, your book is finally coming out, so stoked. Thank you. I have a sticky question for you. I trying to make an alcoholic ice cream for Paco Jet. I want to retain the raw alcohol taste. I been using cognac and calvados. Do you like Calvados or Calvados? How do you pronounce it? So I was like, I don't care. don't drink that stuff. Do you like that stuff? I don't think I ever had it. No? You know, the apple brandy? Oh, yeah. No, it's okay? Okay. Yeah. She's like, they don't make it in Italy or Switzerland, so I don't drink. I don't drink it. I don't drink it. Uh, so anyway, um, Do you have any suggestions on ratios or stabilizers I can use to have

[20:08] a nice consistency? Thank you. Uh, okay, so what I would do is uh, I would do what I always do when I want something to not. I mean, obviously for those of you that like, I don't know, you're zoning out because I'm speaking too quickly or whatever, the problem here

[20:20] is obviously you add too much liquor, you affect the texture. Yeah? Yeah, yeah. So, uh, you don't want to, like, one solution, which is the wrong solution, and you can't do it in

[20:29] apocalypse anyway, so it doesn't matter. I guess you could. If to freeze it much colder than you normally would in apocalypse. But this is not going to work because when alcoholic stuff melts out, it typically melts out in a weird way. So, unlike typical sorbets, they have relatively nice melt profile over alcohol, sorbets, they just blast out on you. You know what I mean? You've seen that happen, right? It's not nice. So what I would do is cheat in the same way that I always cheat and I would make a gelan fluid gel with the alcohol. So I would make a portion of the sorbet base kind of normal and then create a gel and fluid

[20:58] gel that, and you want, I would say, total sorbet. Total sorbet. I would go in the ratio of like no more than half a percent, and that will never melt. So you can spin it and it'll stay like the texture of, I mean, it won't melt. It will stay like the texture of just melted sorbet on the surface of the sorbet, but it'll hold its shape. So, in other words, like whatever it is, whatever your liquid base is, in it, don't

[21:26] forget, forget the salads because my recipe doesn't work on that, but whatever the liquid base is, half a percent. Remember, you're going to have to boil that, and then you can temper stuff into it, let it chill

[21:35] into, and then blend it into a fluid gel, and then spin it in the pocket jet, and that should work, and it'll be super creamy.

[21:42] You might have to up your flavors a little bit because half a percent of Calco Joe LFF, which is low acyl gelan, is quite a lot and will mask the flavor somewhat, but it'll be smooth and creamy.

[21:52] Right? Do you like things that are smooth and creamy? Yeah. But you don't like when people describe them as movie, baby. Come on, dude. All right, right, right, right. Uh, okay, got a story in from uh, Ross and Aruba. and I wanted us to read this on the air. And I might have to read it quickly because, you know, I'm late. Thanks for your help. I look forward to getting the 2 series off. I hope you better already have them. He does. All right, good. As a home cook, I've been coming, and by the way, I like home cook, cook, cook, a lot of honor in cooking, cook,

[22:23] cook, cook, cook. As a home cook, I've become enthralled with sous vide cooking in a nova circulator, low temperature, I'm sure. I'm amazed with its ease and convenience. At last, chicken steaks and other meats cooked to desired level of doneness. Yes, that is a word, by the way, without fail. We've become so attached to sous vide cooking that we took the Anova circulator on a budget vacation to Aruba. bought a $5 plastic bucket at a local grocery store and we were cooking. We took zippies with us because we weren't sure about their availability. By the way, were they available? Could you get the ziplocs? Uh, and remember, people, don't buy the cheap ziplocs because remember, Styles, we have that problem with the cheap ziplocs. Do not buy it by the freezer ones, the freezer ones. We were doing an event the other day, and they were leaking and how put your angry face on. All right. Anyway, because we weren't sure about their availability. We had steaks that could compete, that could compete with those available at Aruba's high-end restaurants. Before we went to the beach or bar. We pop the meat in the bags, and they'd be ready when we got back to our apartment. More importantly, if we wanted to do some more snorkeling or have another drink, we could. We didn't have to rush back and tend to the cooking, which is a good point. If you're snorkeling. By the way, I don't know about the safety of snorkeling and drinking. I'm sure you were drinking responsibly while you're snorkeling. Uh, but yes, uh, definitely, you know, if you're under the water and that, you know, looking around at all the awesome sea life and you lose track of

[23:42] time. A normal steak would be ruined, right? Right. Yeah. Anyway, we didn't have to rush back to tend to the cooking and the food stayed fine and didn't overcook in the circulator. Now we want to try the Sears all at home, not on vacation. Airline security folks may have qualms about such a device. Thank you for your help. Uh, regards, uh, Ross. Now, listen, Russ, I bring the Sears all with me all the time, all the time on the airport. And occasionally people are like, what is this? And I go, um, it is a cooking device. And they were like, oh. But I unscrew it from the torch, and I bring the torch separately, and they look at it a couple times, look at it. I also bring red hot pokers with me. I always bring those things. You can bring them in check luggage, obviously, but then they're going to search your luggage. But I bring them in my carry-on because I never bring check luggage to demos because I've had them not show up and then you don't have a demo. So I plan demos around being able to bring stuff in my carry-on. Uh, so you can do it. But good luck with the home use this ears. Let us know how it works. And then how many minutes we got, Jack? Under five. Under five. Okay. All right, let me, let me, let me hit this quick. Is next week Thanksgiving or the week after? A week after? Okay, so Antoine, I'm going to get your brine in question on birds because I'm assuming that's for that's for Thanksgiving. I'm going to get that next week as well as Lee Crawford's explanation of, by the way, wrote in about Julia Child and went back and watched her old black and white shows. That was from Gene. Oh, that was from Gene? G-E-A-N-N-E. How do you say that? G? G? G? G? Anyways, from Gene, not familiar. Anyway, I went back and watched that episode, which is one of the reasons I'm a little bit late without generation. holy crap. I, you know, you forget what a badass Julia child is. You know what I mean? You forget, and then you watch it. She might have been a little drunk. I'm not sure. I mean, I know that's like whatever, that's the stereo, you know, that's her, like, you know, that's her shtick. like she did that way before Hoda and Kathy Lee. you know what I'm saying? Uh, or, I don't know, maybe the same time as Dean Martin did the kind of like, you know, kind of a little bit tipsy thing. you know what I mean? Uh, but such just is such an intense badass. I'm going to go back and now you've ruined me. I have to go back and, and, you know, read all those. So we'll get that. I'm going to hit really quickly. Daniel from San Jose wrote him out at rose pedals. I've been making candy rose petals the classic way by coating the rose petals in a thin layer of egg white, dipping them in sugar, and then leaving them out to dry. My problem I was to be able to finally chop them for use in a plated dessert, but the egg white sugar always flakes apart from the dried rose petal when it's chopped.

[26:13] Is there any way I can modify the prep so I can drop the candied rose petals without them flaking apart? Thanks. You know, I never tried it, but you know, the problem is you don't want to heat them. That's the issue. You know, Johnny Zini used to do a thing where he would dip them in simple syrup and lay them out on a paper towel to drive after he dusted them with sugar. But I think the key is maybe let them have, the egg white is going to be a problem because the proteins are gonna, are gonna, you know, kind of crunch up on you. But I think if you let them go demi sick, as they say, you know, like half dry and then chop them and then let them finish out

[26:42] after after that, if you can stop them from, the problem is you, they're gonna gum up. So you're going to have to sit there and individually chop each rose petal like into a, you know, you can't even do a shift

[26:52] not because you can't roll it. It'll stick, right? I don't know. It's problematic. But I don't know. I try to think of a surefire. Maybe try Johnny's way instead of with the egg white, maybe it'll work. Now. Um, as for other things, I'm not going to get to in time. Let me see. Uh, Uriel and your milk powder, he's talking about milk powder and my yard for browning and meats. I going to get that later. And also Alex's bear. We didn't like our bear, but I'm going to research more about bear. If you have a young bear, then it's you're going to be better off. Um, but I'll look more into Cooking Bear. The one time that we cooked bears. Did you even taste this sauce? Nice, don't think I tasted it better. It is terrible. Uh, but again, uh, young, young one is young bear is uh, good. Also, David, with your lemon sorbet question, I'll catch you next time because it is it's not a problem. I could do it. And I just have too many questions to answer, but I'm going to, I, I, I miss Ken, Ken

[27:46] Ingberg's, uh, uh, what do you call it a diatribe? Yeah. All right. I think he would, I think he would fairly call it a diatribe. So I'll read that really quickly, and then we can discuss it later if people have more questions on it. Okay. Um, Dave and the Hammer by extension, if not conspiracy, have been champions of low temperature and sous vide cooking. When you started this campaign on the radio, This was still pretty exotic, requiring either relatively expensive equipment or internet hacks and only a small cadre of enthusiasts would employ. That has changed, not only because of the promotion of low temp and SUV by us and others, but because Sous

[28:19] vide Supreme was successful in the mainstream, and the cost of an immersion circulators come way down. I backed the Nomiku, which works well. I assume, uh, this is harsh. I assume Bam's venture, Bam, is we pop soupy pot, uh, who, you know, one of the founders

[28:32] of, uh, I assume Bam's Venture will not survive because since they have started, poly-science has come down in price and both the San

[28:38] Serenay Nova are better rated and available for $200. By the way, there's a new Nomiku coming out, so, you know, I don't, I don't, you know, I don't, what's it called? I don't play favorites in the in the circulator market because I'm friends with a lot of these folks, but don't count anyone out yet. And then he goes, bad news for Bam, but great news for consumers. Ouch. An emergency circulator is now a little pricey for an impulse purchase, but clearly inexpensive enough to be a regular consumer product. But the information and education provided by cooking issues and the like are not as available as the products are. Take me as an example. I am not a typical consumer. I listen to cooking issues. I have books by McGee and Keller on my night table, on your night table. I'm going to tell Harold about that. And do plenty of research. Hell, I've even read a Hasset plan. Yet with all my attention, devotion, I understand the safety issues there. I understand the safety issues that are so widely mentioned very poorly. For various reasons, mostly in abundance of caution. I've almost invariably prepared low temperature meals by reaching pasteurization, and I use

[29:31] the quick chill method for storing. But even I don't really understand this. If I am researching pasteurization temp and time. How could this be a big danger I keep hearing about? With conventional cooking, you leave food in pots while you eat. You leave it out on the counter to cool and you put it in the fridge all the while in the danger zone. If the contents of the low temp bag are pasteurized, why isn't that close to canning? It's not close to canning. It's not because you're not killing the sports. But anyway, why isn't that close to canning giving me a much wider margin of safety than ordinary prepared food?

[29:56] It is, but, you know, I'm not going to have time to discuss it, but it is. Anyway, if the bag's contents are pasteurized, I would find it plausible to conclude that it'll be perfectly safe to throw it in the fridge without a quick chill ice bath. This was asked by someone on the air quite a while ago. Dave, in my opinion, did not catch the drift of the question and did not answer it. This came to heaven considering fish. Chef Steps promoted a combination salting in the danger zone and cooking for salmon that was declared safe. And Chris Young did a challenge test on it, which is how they figured out it was safe. Fine for that specific chef step preparation, but you see plenty of examples of cooking fish well below 130 degrees Fahrenheit.

[30:29] Even the amusing hot water tap method. I don't want to cook all fish to pasteurization all the time. In fact, I never do. Me personally, Dave. And I want to experiment with textures and the like. How safe is that? What about killing fish parasites? Um, so, look it. And he says, it seems to me the availability of low temp equipment is far outpacing the consumer understanding capability. If there's really a serious danger associated with low temperature and SUV cooking, as I've heard repeatedly, then I would say there would be a whole lot of illness arising from this technique at home in the coming years, best regards

[30:55] can. Look, this is complicated, and part of the fact is, is that we're never going to come out and tell, like, no one is going to come out and say with a relatively new thing, something that, you know, might get someone sick, even though we all know that people get sick from cooking all of the

[31:10] time. So next time when I get back, I'm going to just have Stas and I maybe if she wants to. She won't. She doesn't want it. just have like a discussion. Maybe we can get someone on. I don't know. we can get someone on. and we'll just hash out the food safety stuff. My opinion as a cook versus someone who's more, you know, into food safety, their opinion as

[31:29] a food safety expert, because we're coming from different points of view. We have different acceptable levels of risk. And the acceptable level of risk, typically in pasturization levels, is one of supermarket

[31:39] morons walking home with a product in an abused situation, not as someone who's like cooking for their own use at

[31:45] home, who has more control over their raw ingredients. So I think, like, there are different standards of risk, different standards of what we think the inputs into the cooking are, and those are leading to a lot of

[31:55] confusion, but maybe we can get someone on next week and hash it out. Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? Nice. All right, we'll try and get them and that'll be next week on the cooking issues. Thanks for listening to this program on heritageradionetwork.org. You can find all of our archived programs on our website or as podcasts in the iTunes

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