[0:00] Today's program is brought to you by Kane Vineyard and Winery, a Napa Valley winery committed to respecting the

[0:06] soil, and dedicated to the creation of 3 Cabernet blends. For more information, visit Kane 5.com. I'm Greg Blaze, host of Cutting the Curd. You're listening to Heritage Radio Network, broadcasting live from Bushwood, Brooklyn. If you like this program, visit Heritage Radio Network.org for 1000s more.

[0:30] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you tonight. Every Tuesday from roughly 12 to roughly, eh, 1245, 1250 on the Heritage Radio Network in Bushwick, Brooklyn. Join, as usual, with Nastasia the Hammer, Lopez, Jack in the Booth, and special guest star on today's show, Nick Wong. How you doing, Nick? You have to talk into the mic. He's just gonna sit there and he's gonna shake his head. So Nick's special mode of being guest is just going to be to lean back and go, you can't see it, but imagine someone looking back and closing their eyes almost,

[1:06] almost, not 100% just back and forth now. No. No, no. Anyways, uh, so Nick was, uh, originally we met him at the French Culinary Institute. He was one of the tech interns, then go went to work at some. How long do you work at Sambar? The 1st time. Nick is killing me, brother. Two years. And then for some reason, he just, where, where do you go, then Gramercy or something like this? And then he went out, uh, where the hell did you go? Kris Constantino's place, uh, uh, Encanto. The no longer no longer extant Encanto. Chris has a new restaurant. And now, for some reason that escapes us, he's back at

[1:47] Sambar. Right? Right, Stas? Listeners have no way of knowing if this guy's really in the studio. You could be making him up. It's like an imaginary friend, you know? You know what? going to have an imaginary lunch after this. have like imaginary pizza. And then he will then become my imaginary friend. The imaginary pioneer is not that good also. Oh, calling out their imaginary pie. What varieties of imaginary pie do they have here? There's there are a few. Yeah. Yeah, they have pecan pie? Or pecan? We already went through this on the air. Pecan or pecan? Oh, pecan. Because we're northerners. I think if you're from the south, isn't it pecan, if you're from the, no. Or is it the other way around? Pecan if you're from the north and Pecan if you're from the south. But we've had this discussion and I'll have it till the day I die. Goop or nuts? Goop or nuts? Jack, goop or nuts? don't even know what that question is. Hell, do you not eat pecan pie? Stas? Oh, goober. Oh nuts. Nuts? don't like it. Any variety of pecan pie? You don't like any variety of pecan pie? Is because you don't like pies, because you don't like crust, because you don't like biscuits, because you're bad? What about just the filling? Do you like pie filling? I don't like nuts a lot. So I don't like the nuts. Deez Nuts? There it is. Deez nuts. I have to get that. Do you know that there is a... Well, there is a company. First of all, our bar manager, D, is making a drink, I think, with nuts, and it's going to be called Deez Nuts, and there is a nut company, a legit nut company, out of Louisville, Kentucky, and I saw them on Twitter a couple weeks ago, and their their Twitter, their thing is, these

[3:31] nuts, because it's, you know, D, and they sell nuts. Spelled D. Apostrophe S, nuts. So it's very similar except for the Z. Of course, you know, whole groups of people enjoy using a Z instead of an S. Jack. I would imagine you might occasionally. No, I'm not a Z guy. Come on, Jack. Back in the day. Yeah, sure. When you were downloading, when you were downloading programs, were they wares? Yeah. Wow, what a reference. Yeah. Wow. Try to keep current on stuff from like 10 years past. Like I'm very current on what was going on 10 years ago. So, this is our 1st time back from Thanksgiving. So Stas actually had a question. I don't know if I was supposed to say it's from her or not, but this is the 1st time the Sasha's ever written a question into this. This is big. Oh, well, maybe she wrote a big one. And just not told me? Maybe you just ignored her. Like, who Nick's talking? Oh, no, she totally busted him. So here's the 1st thing I know of, question from Nastasia. When your friend is overcooking a turkey at his house, his house,

[4:38] remember? Can you tell him to take it out of the oven or give him any type of direction, especially if he thinks

[4:45] the turkey needs another hour? This is an etiquette question. Well, it's an etiquette. We've answered etiquette questions before here on the radio, like regarding whether or not you're allowed to mess with people's tomatoes and then we got Daniel in as a result. So here's the thing. First of all, uh, it's a tough, it's a tough call. I think a lot depends on how much gravy they're making. How much gravy were they making? A lot. 33 boats worth. Okay, and were they giving you sharp knives? No. Well, were there mashed potatoes? Yeah. So you could conceivably take each piece of shoe leather. Slice it into tiny little niblets, surround the niblets with mashed potatoes, and then drench it in gravy, and choke down one slice in your out. And you don't have to deal with the leftovers because they're not in your kitchen, right? So it's not your sandwiches that he's ruining. So no, I don't think you can say anything to it. them. I think maybe you can be like, I think you're allowed one of these. Shoulders go up, head goes aside a little bit. Maybe maybe it's done. I think you're allowed one of those, you know? I think maybe you know. I think maybe it's done. Because, and then like, if you're a really good friend, you're allowed to say, listen, you know that little bit of the meat near the thigh that you're worried about is not

[5:56] cooked? That's really not that big a deal. We can slice that off and just pan it later. Really, you don't want to overcook the whole breast and the thigh and the rest of the leg and stuff like that for the sake of that one little piece of meat down by the thigh,

[6:07] that we all know, worst comes to worst, I just cut it off and throw it in the microwave for about a minute and a half

[6:11] now that that little nugget of meat is done, right? No one ever gets down to that part of the turkey anyway, except for my house. Oh, yeah. But my point is that that you're allowed to say. Then if they're like, then you, all right. That's it. Another hour. And just, you know, although I heard you got busted because I asked you about this. I was like, well, the one good thing about a badly overcooked turkey is usually the skin's pretty good. Right, but I didn't get any skin. Do you know Johnny Hunter from the, yeah, the Underground Food and Meats Collective in Madison, Wisconsin. We visited a while ago. Great folks. He did the bionic turkey. Sweet. Bionic turkey lives on. Nick, if he was to ever speak, did that once with us, I think maybe twice. He did it with us twice or once. I don't think he did it. Just once. You didn't come to do it at my house with me? You were in San Francisco at the time. I think you brought it in to circulate FCI, but... No, anyway. So I've done a bio turkey, I think, 3 times now, but Johnny did it and I was awesome. So he posted on Twitter, so go look on Johnny Hunter's Twitter account for his

[7:17] bionic turkey, or I retweeted it if you have my Twitter at cooking issues. I did not do the bionic turkey this year because I wanted to go super simple this year for me, super simple. So what I did was, I went to the Pollo Vivo place up 117th Street between like 1st and 2nd Avenue, picked out my live turkey. They didn't have the wild turkey of reasonable size this time. you know, the, you know, the Oajalote style. They only had the little ones. And I wasn't going to feed all those people with like a, like a £15 turkey live. That's like £12 turkey in real life. That's like, it's like me. I can eat that. Anyway. So I got the live turkey. Let it rest a day, right? I suggest people do this. the easy, the easy, the easy, complicated way. This is the easiest complicated turkey I've ever done. Then, you know how when you teach you to bone out birds, you bone out, like you cut down the breast and you bone out so that you then roll it back up, but usually you don't cut the, you don't cut down the back of the animal.

[8:07] You know what I'm saying, Nick? Right. So anyway, so this one I boned out by cutting down the back of the turkey, ripped out the carcass, ripped out the thigh bones, left in the legs. Are you believing in taking out the wishbone before you bone out a bird or not? Jackie Peps, that's Jacques Pepin for all of you out there. Jackie Peps always takes the wishbone out of the bird before he does the, which I think makes sense if you're going to carve the breast off of it because then you don't lose that little bit like where your knife goes

[8:32] around. Nils never used to take the bone out. I can't decide whether I like taking the bone out or not. Now it's just a habit. You take the bone out or not. Which one? So you lose that little negative meat? You can you can put the knife in the other set? Yeah. You kind of come at it with a knife in a different angle. My kids, for the 1st time this year, did the wishbone. Booker lost. Dax was super happy because Dax knows the grip up high and like yank hard trick and then snapped it off and left Booker with this little stub of wishbone. And Dax was like, yeah, like running around the house with the wishbone. I was like, you're not going to get, like, they both wish for crap. not gonna get. Neither of them are like, you know, I want like, you know, a candy bar or some crap that

[9:08] like I might actually get them. I bet Booker wanted something you're going to get for him for Christmas. No, they both wanted like a $1000 a day or something like, you know, something stupid that you're not

[9:17] going to get out of. People need to like, like, is it that I'm all for dreaming big, but don't dream stupid. know what I mean? What if you just wish to win the wishbone competition? For next time, you mean? Or like a retroactive wish. You're like, you won as you pull it, you've won. Exactly. See, that's why I like Nick. Yeah. Yeah, sweet. I love that. All right, done, done. I won, done. And granted. One, granted. Anyway, the simul win grant. I like that. So anyways, so I had the turkey, so now you have the bones. The great thing about boning out of turkey. I say this a 1000000000 times. one more time. You have the bones to make the stock. So you bone that sucker out, dry salt it, stick it in a Ziploc bag. Now the turkey fits in your fridge, no problem. No problem. In a ziploc with no bones, big turkey fits in the fridge, in the little Crisper drawer. Anyways, salted, sitting overnight, take the bones, roast them off, bought extra bones because that's how I am. May the stock in the pressure cooker, duh, coon recon, no venting. Uh, let it come down. Then, the next day, when I made the, I injected the stock into the, I salted, took some of the stock,

[10:19] boil it down, salted it up, injected the stock into the, into the breast meat and the legs and stuff, not water stock, then with a meat injector, then made the stuffing plug, right?

[10:30] The giant stuffing plug, carcass shaped stuffing plug, circulated that at like 80 Celsius to heat the whole stuffing plug up, like sterilize it, you know, pasteurize it pretty

[10:39] quickly, and uh, and uh, heat it through, then use that as an inside heater,

[10:43] drape the turkey around the stuffing plug, like based in, boat ton of butter on it, and then threw it in the oven, so it was cooking from both sides at

[10:51] once using the stuffing plug is my heat reservoir. Mm, mm, mm. Turkey. One, it was like one. 2 hours done. And and other advantage is because the skin is wrapped around the

[11:03] side, really you're cheating and you're putting the skin that is underneath, right on the bottom of the outside, all the skin crisp. Oh, skin crisp. And delicious. Yeah. Anyway. As opposed to Stas's turkey and Jack's turkey. Did you have, which, they sucked. Uh, Nick, uh, how is uh, actually, Jen liked this even better than bionic turkey. I don't know whether it's just because there wasn't the headache of me frying or what. Probably. Yeah. No, it's definitely the reason. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nick, would you do a turkey? I did not do turkey. Would you do? I went over to Mindy's place for Thanksgiving dinner. Oh, Mindy, who ran the intern program for a long time. How is Mindy's turkey? Is good. Yeah? What did she do? Street regular roast. I didn't have to tell her that it was overcooking because she knows better. Right, then to that mean, because she did, but she did not overcook it? No. Turkey was good? Yes. Gravy? I made the gravy, so yes. Was that you roasting bones and salmon? a couple days before Thanksgiving. It smelled awesome like turkey stock and song. Probably because we're making boatloads of turkey gravy. strong. All right. So enough of Thanksgiving. I don't think I have any other Thanksgiving things to report. Anything else good or bad on Thanksgiving? Anything to report? Is that the end? Thanksgiving? We can't talk about Thanksgiving now until next year. We can talk about it, Jack. What do you want to talk about? You want to talk about Thanksgiving? No I got nothing. Thanksgiving Thursday. Yeah. So, uh, another thing I want to say, you guys seen the movie The Jerk? Yeah, you seen the jerk? So, Stas, for some reason, Nastasia, like, likes to claim that she's never seen any movie prior

[12:48] to, like, 1995. She's like, that's old. Like, meanwhile, like, I've seen, like, you know, movies from the 20s, 30s teens. So like, especially any comedy movie in like the 70s or 80s, she's like,

[12:59] no, what stripes? Who's Bill Murray? What? saddles and stripes. They're great movies and like... Oh, you haven't seen the jerk. I can't believe this One of my favorite movies is Young Frankenstein, and you know that. It's great movie. am really angry right now. You sound it. Because I feel like... You sound like Mike Dukakis. You sound like Mike Dukakis. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyways, but you haven't seen the jerk? So you'll enjoy this, Stas. silent now, like Nick. Fake silent, imaginary silent. Yeah. Oh. Wow. Whoa, she just gave them, oh, harsh. Anyways. So in the jerk, and I'll tell you why I feel this way. Anastasial Enjoys, in the jerk, there's a famous section where Steve Martin is the lead character

[13:45] and the jerk, and he's an idiot. He's not just a jerk. He an idiot, right? So at one point, he's working in a gas station and the phone book comes and he's like, the phone book, my

[13:54] name and print, the phone book, finally, like, like, Grace, that's gonna happen to me. My name's in print. I'm in the phone book and the guy's like, what the hell? in the phone book. And then, like, literally the next scene is like a psycho sniper who opens the phone book at a random page and

[14:07] goes, like, Nathan R. Johnson, typical bastard. And then like go dries out in a truck and tries to kill Steve Martin at the gas station with like a sniper rifle,

[14:16] right? And so it's like, you know, classic like guy thinks he's getting somewhere, but really it's stupid because who cares about where they were in the phone book, but that random thing does happen to shaft him in life.

[14:26] And so that's what I'm living right now with Amazon. So like, uh, what's happening with Amazon? So like, I'm like, oh, we're in Amazon. My name's in the phone book. And like, uh, because we have the series all supposedly on sale. Amazon hosed us, how hard it, by the way, Sears always on sale on Amazon, right? But they like, they, like, no one understands what the hell's going on. Wherever we have something going wrong with Amazon in this series all, like everyone is like, it can't be Amazon. Amazon is a well-run large company and it must be you guys who are inconfident and stupid. And like, no, you don't understand. People, right? Styles, people just don't get how crazy. Well, that's also true. But like, the fact that the matter is, is like, it's like, oh, my God. I can't even get into it. Then, so Amazon hoses this and they say they're not going to sell the series alls on Black Friday, even though we swore in a stack of Bibles that they were in stock, which they are. They're at Amazon's warehouse. Stas and I are up there at midnight, you know, Thanksgiving, like, well, she was, I don't know,

[15:20] what, an hour earlier, some crap 11 because Ohio's on our time zone. Anyways. So she's like, she's there and like, we're like, and what? And, like, they wouldn't let us sell live. That was it. And like people started, some idiots like sent us in like, so what? They're asleep at the too much turkey. Meanwhile, Nastasia are up at, like, midnight, trying, like, they thought we fell asleep and we're sitting there like, what the hell? What the hell? And Amazon, even though all of their customer service is not in the United States of America. Maybe they have like 5 guys in Washington who are in the United States of America, right? But they have a boot ton of people who are customer service who have nothing to do with the United States of America, right? Yet those guys also get Thanksgiving off. What the hell is that about? No customer service on the Thanksgiving, trying to get the stuff selling. By that time it was Black Friday, though. which you would think Amazon would be on top of. Right? So, so they're like, well, you can't. And then, like, all of a sudden, Sears all gets flagged as a hazmat device, meaning that it's hazardous

[16:14] material because in the, it uses the word torch, I guess, or gas or something in the

[16:20] text. So the computer, because they have some sort of like dumb NSA algorithm, like searching it for like terror and hazmat crap. It's like, uh, yeah, this might be hazmat, so maybe we shouldn't sell this thing. So bang. And then it says, could take maybe 42 48 hours for us to look at it maybe longer. So we're like, what the what? remember this? So I get a guy on the phone at 8 when they opened up in the morning next morning. And he's like, yeah, you're pretty much shafted. He's like, you have one option. He's like, I was like, they're all in your warehouse. He's like, yeah, so here's what we're going to do. We're going to put it on sale on the Amazon website, but really you're selling it, not us. I was like, what? He's like, yeah, you're selling it, not us. I'm like, what does that mean? He's like, well it means that you have to ship it. I was like, yeah, but you have all of our seersols. And the guy's like, yeah, I know. So what then you'll have to do you'll then have to make your own separate order to ship out from our warehouse as your own self to these customers. So we're like, I was like, what? I was like, then if you're gonna if you're gonna accept an order. And then you're going to let me ship the order from your warehouse, why don't you just take the order and ship the

[17:22] order? And they're like, no. No. And there is no, this is what people aren't going to believe. They're not going to believe this. There is no way on the computer to say,

[17:33] hey, Amazon, this chunk of 300 orders that you got in, right? This chunk, right? Really, those are your orders. Can you just ship them out and track them? No. And when you when we use Amazon to ship? I'm sorry, this is boring people, but I just have to get off my chest. When you use Amazon to ship as like a, as we're a seller,

[17:52] they don't guarantee they're going to ship it out in a reasonable amount of time, even when you pay expediting, which I did for all of the

[17:59] series alls that got ordered. I pay the extra expediting. I totally hosed because I didn't want people to not have it prime speed, right? They don't guarantee that. However, the orders that they took in your name and gave to you, they expect to get out in a reasonable amount of time and you get

[18:13] danged if you don't get them out. What? I hate them. And then in the middle of this, and this is where the jerk where they came to my mind in the phone book. They also ran out of stock on liquid intelligence for no reason, even though I called my publisher and it's been sitting in the warehouse waiting for their pickup for like a week and a half , they had copies of

[18:31] liquid intelligence. Oh, did they not get an interview? Was that the thing? They didn't do the interview? They're a publisher. They should know how to get a book to the whatever anyway. So, yeah, for some reason, like, I got, I got, I got randomly selected in the phone book for, like, singling out by Amazon.com. I'm Bezos's random whipping boy of the day. enough of that. Uh, so anyways, um, We got some questions in other than Nastasia's turkey questions. So let's, you know, I'm going to do in reverse. Crap on that. I'm not going to do it yet last week's now because they're not on my phone now. I'm going to do this week's, and then I'm going to go back. You like the 1st question? All right, so I'll do it. So now you get to know what Nastasia likes because she apparently likes this question. From Jeff Moore in Jersey City. Let's here at Jersey. Anything for Jersey? No love for Jersey City. Jack, any love for Jersey City? Jesus. Wow. He's like, won't even pick up the mic for Jersey City. I think maybe he's in the bathroom. No, I'm here. Oh, there's no love for Jersey City. I'm gonna give some love out to Jersey City. What's all the hate on Jersey City? Wow, damn. Damn. All right. I've been enjoying the liquid intelligence book, but I was wondering, oh, this is why, Staj, you're such an evil person. This is gonna give an idea of how evil Nastasia is, people. She just loves to break them. Like, like, she loves to break them. If she had them, she would break her own because she loves to break them so much. Uh, I've been enjoying the liquid intelligence book, but I was wondering if there's a published

[20:00] errata list, so I can mark up my book with any corrections which have accumulated so far. I haven't been able to find one at the publisher site or at cookingissues.com, nor have my attempts at Google Foo, found at Google Foo. That, you know, she used to work at, uh, at, uh, Sombar and a PDT. Karen Food is her name, not Google Food, but now Google Food is the name. Found it for me. Thanks. And keep doing what you do, Jeff Moore. All right, Stas, you evil person, you. Only likes it. You remember that song? Remember that group, garbage. Yeah. I'm only happy when it rains. Yeah, that is Nastasia. That is that is Nastasia. He's only happy when it's complicated, you know? Yeah, she feels so good, feels so bad. She's only happy when it rains. So what was the question again? Published erata. Okay, there is not. I am thinking of printing up a sheet, though, to carry around with me. Uh, and maybe give it the publisher. Um, So the basic, there's nothing, the only thing in there that I know of that actually would affect a recipe is in the Manhattans for

[21:02] two, uh, the vermouth is written down as a fat 3 quarters of an ounce, and I think it's a fat one in 3 quarters, I

[21:09] think, is the thing. I have to look at exactly what the thing is, but the middle liter number is right. So if you follow the milliliter number there, but go look at the Manhattans for two, and that number is wrong. The other main issue, the issues that I found is that in the classics cocktail section at the end with

[21:27] it, where you have the chart of all the things, they, they, well, somehow they, the, the acid numbers got messed up in the befores, but not in the

[21:36] after. So it's not going to affect the recipes, except for the vermouth listening in the in the double Manhattan experiments. I haven't seen any, uh, like erada that actually mess up the, um, mess up the recipes. I will say in the in the reprint, I'm probably going to lower the frozen daiquiris. I might, I'm going to lower the lime juice a little bit, little bits, little bits, in retrospect, I might lower it little bits. So there's nowhere he can go. I just gave it to him. If you're listening, I just gave him the answer. And then, like, in the next one, it's like, there's no printed sheet yet. Oh, you know what? I think you should call Nastasia. I'll give her your cell number over the next radio program and you can call her for the errata list. How about that? Does that sound, Nick, sound like a good idea? Yeah. I give you a hint. It's in California. So it's like, she still has like, like, she still has this 1st cell phone she got when she was like,

[22:31] like, 12 from Covina, California, she still has the, the, the area code. My 1st cell phone was in New York City. So I still have like an honesty guy New York City cell phone and half since, you know what, Booker actually wants a 34, whatever it is, instead of he has a

[22:43] 917, he has a 917. I have a 212. on your cell phone? How the hell did you do that? Someplace in Queens. Like, what do you mean? Like, you go there and you're like, yo, give me the 212. I was young. I don't know. They were just like, you want 2 and two? I was like, yeah, take it. Of course you do. You pretend to be Manhattan forever. right. Yeah. Anyways. Also, I've never been to Jersey City, really. Sure it's a great place. Have you been to the Hoboken? Not really. I don't spend much time Jersey. I was once, I had to go to Hoboken. Mozzarella is great there, by the way. Have we talked about on a show? Yeah, mozzarella there is great and worth going to. Read anything that Joshua Zirski wrote about mozzarella and to find suggestions there. But the only real time I've spent there other than that was back when I used to work at the lawyer's office, uh, this is how little work that we did, they, this is before Powerball

[23:28] was in New York, they literally put me on a train to go buy the office's Powerball tickets in Hoboken. Keep in mind, I was their computer consultant. So I was like theoretically making a decent wage, you know, much more decent than I have made sense. And yet I, like, I was put on a, on a train over to Hoboken to buy lottery tickets.

[23:49] We didn't win, which we didn't win. I don't know where that fact. Okay. Can we take our 602nd spot very quickly, so we have more time. All right. Okay, here we go.

[24:04] It is so exciting to have this new medium. Posting after that jump has been a huge part of me transitioning from being a blogger to somebody who has sort of

[24:15] real important conversations with people in real life. My show, I kind of describe it as an audio trade magazine. I learned a ton from the guests every week, whether it's at restaurants, bars. Oh, the hosted heritage all come from different perspectives. Everyone should be listening to this. If you're interested in conservation and practical approach to renewable food sources, you know, not this big industry. Whether it's history, laws, social policies of food. I think people now take food seriously, and hopefully what's on their plate will become something very special.

[24:52] And I feel that podcasting has a future, giving people information in a format they can really use on the go. We need your support to keep these conversations going. To donate visit heritageradionetwork.org backslash donate. We need your support. Give us your support, right? Yeah that was it. Support that. You don't talk like that though. See it? Like, you can never judge what someone actually sounds like based on my invitation because that's

[25:19] my, like, 80 year old lady from, like, the outer burrows. And your Jack Insley impression? Yeah, well, I don't know. I just like, no, it's like, I don't know. No, no. No, my normal jack impression is using my normal voice. I don't really have a U. I don't have like, you sound normal to me, so I don't have like a real impression for you, you know? Well, it's giving Tuesday. So if any cooking issues listeners want to donate, um, that would be awesome. Show your support if you like the show. Is tomorrow giving Wednesday? No, actually, Nick decided what tomorrow was. What's tomorrow He can't say. I can't say. Oh, can't say it on the radio. It's SE Wednesday. SA Wednesday? No, S.A. S. We can come up with another word, maybe. Dash

[25:57] Y, Wednesday. I don't know. I don't even... You'll tell me afterwards. By the way, I know what I forgot to talk about, people. WD50 closed. I went on Sunday to the final, uh, the final meal and they had like a family meal party yesterday, they already taken down the neon

[26:14] sign, and... Sad. But he's ending on a high, like, at 1st I was like, you know, because I, you know, I talked to some people about it. I was like, oh, well, he's ending on a really high note. no better reason to have to end a restaurant than they're going to knock the building down and they paid you, you know, money to get out. You know what I mean? They're like, they paid you a bunch of money to give up a successful business so they could knock the building down and build like an

[26:34] ugly, stupid high-rise, right? It's about the best way to leave a restaurant. Uh, you know, and uh, but still, when you're there, and then you were like,

[26:44] oh my god, it's a restaurant, like all these people now need to have fine new jobs. I spoke to a lot of people and like, you know, I think a lot of the folks there have, uh, you know, found other good places to go, but, you know, I hope they all have wish, wish everyone from WD, uh,

[26:58] good future. Great restaurant, end of an era. Um, okay. Hello, Dave and Hammer, emailing you live from Putin's new Bazantia, Moscow, Russia. Do they have like, like, imagine like, uh, they should have announcing like that over there, do they? I'm not going to do it in my Russian accent though. I have an okay fake Russian accent. Anyway, congrats on the new well he's not the guy is writing's not Russian though. He's English. Anyway. 80s name. Congratulations on the book. As I read it, I can hear Dave's disembodied voice in my head, which worries this Englishman. Yeah, right. It worries Nick too. Nick's got like a like a Dave voice face, which is similar to Nastasia's vegan face on right now. You've reignited my need for a fuse, that centrifuge to those of you not in the know. On this post below, you mentioned that the size of the Xuan 3 liter rotor affects the G's pulled versus the lighter champion E- 34, so that 834, I thought it was an

[27:51] E 33, maybe C 34 now, you know, things get better. So the, uh, the, the deal is both of them, uh, I think actually the

[27:57] Juan Arjuan goes at around 4000 RPM and the little guy goes at like 3000 and change because it's run off of an induction motor and that's just the speed that it runs.

[28:07] Um, So here's the deal. Like, uh, you can't, the rotor size does make it, let me finish your question. However, how can I or where can I look up and work out what a one. 2 liter 4000 RPM Juan benchtop Fuge does. Is there a simple equation between mass, RPM and time that I need to know? Well, mass doesn't matter. Massive matter. Mass irrelevant. The only things you need to know are the radius of your rotor and the speed at which the rotor goes in RPM. And yeah, you'd look up just look up on the Wikipedia RCF. that's R, like, Richard C, like, C, F, like, F, and it stands for

[28:43] relatives, centrifugal force, and basically, you need to know the mean rotor, whatever they're going to take is the rotor diameter radius, depending you have to look at it, usually in millimeters, and then the speed in RPMs, and it'll calculate the relative centrifugal force for you.

[28:57] And there's like JavaScript calculators all over everywhere because this is stuff that people have to do

[29:01] every day. So then you just need to know the radius of your rotor, which is easily findable on any one of the websites and the thing. here's what I'm here to tell you. Well, for a given bucket, for a given rotor,

[29:13] the speed of the centrifuge is super important because it's the number of

[29:19] G's that are going to determine what the separating power of the centrifuge is. However, it's not the only number that's important. So, on a spinning bucket rotor, right, you need a relative, which is what we have with the, with the, with the

[29:31] Jwan, with the big one that I use, you need a relatively high number of G's not to clarify, right? Uh, you need a relatively high number of G's to compact all of the crap into the bottom of the bucket and have it so that when the

[29:46] center fuse uh, stops, it doesn't refloat up back into the stuff. That's what you need all the extra G's for over the 1st like, you know, that 2000, right? The extra 2000 G's that you need in that are really just to smash the pellet tough so that it doesn't resuspend when you spin down. And that's also why you need to spin it for like 10, 15 minutes and not for 5 minutes because the stuff is really clear inside of like 3 to 5 minutes, but it's just not densely packed in the bottom.

[30:11] Now, like how well it packs is dependent upon a couple of things. One is the, the, you know, the speed of the centrifuge, the number, the amount of G forces it has, but also how far the pellets need

[30:24] the particles need to travel through the liquid before they smash. And for a spinning bucket rotor, they need to travel a relatively long distance. And they're getting forced directly into a big flat plate, so they need a relatively large amount of force to smash them down into a

[30:37] pellet into a puck. Uh, in a, in a fixed angle rotor where they, where the sides of the rotor are at an angle and the liquid hits them and then the,

[30:46] uh, the particles hit the sides and then slide down, those things kind of grind the particles into a pellet

[30:52] faster, and so they can work with uh, lower G's. So a fixed angle rotor is going to give you easier clarification at lower

[31:01] G's in a swinging bucket, but the swinging bucket is typically going to have a higher capacity.

[31:06] Does that make any sense? Yeah, hope that helps. iPhone thinks I want to take a picture instead of helping you guys with your questions. It's wrong. It's wrong. Um, okay. And okay, that's it for them. We're gonna go on to last week's questions. Uh, which I'm gonna uh, call up. You want to say anything, Nick, while I'm looking up last week's questions? The answer better be yes, or I'm going to do terrible things to your pizza. Just terrible things. Nothing. You're a bad person. You're never invited on the radio program again. Uh, never. Never. Uh, okay. So, uh, The last question we asked

[31:45] was the pretzel one, right? Do we talked about Tempe last week? Or 2 weeks ago? Yeah, we did. All right. And we talked about, can, man, maybe we got, maybe we got everything. No, that's like, I know we missed a whole bunch. Oh, I know what happened. They never made it onto Dropbox. I had to send them into the into the email thing. Hmm. All right. All right, people, I apologize. And since Nick is such a low quality human being. You know what? Before we came on, when I came in late because of my bike, he thinks it's freaking hilarious, I'm going to hit him with, I'm going to hit him with a lead pipe as soon as this is over. But, uh, he was telling all kinds of stories back from the, uh, yeah. Yeah. All kind of stories about like, you know, uh, me hitting him with lead pipes, how much I could hit him, wish I could hit him with a lead pipe. All right. Here we go. Okay, so we got the lemon sorbet question. we got the ramen, we got the salt, we got the tempeh. We did not get to freezing, right? Did we? Did we talk about freezing? Depends on what it is now. The gin and juice with the freezing? No. Okay. Another Dave here from the UK. Love your show. Only stumbled across it a few months ago and wish I'd found it years ago. I've been working through the archives. and they make great listening whilst I'm pottering about in the kitchen pottering. I never heard that in a long time. What do you think, Stas? You pro? No. not pro pottery? No. Puttering. Puttering. Puttering. Well, no, maybe it's in the UK. I don't know Maybe you potter in the UK. I don't know. I don't spend much time over there. I've already heard a ton of useful information, but he spells the English ton. Are you for the English ton? 2 N's and an E? No. No? No. Of useful information for listening to you, which inspires me to try new things in the kitchen. I feel I've learned so much that I thought I'd better do the decent thing and help support the show. So I signed up and became a heritage radio network member the other way. Keep up the good work. Sweet. This is from Dave W. Um, I have a quick question. I bought your book and started off by making a gin and juice. I wrote a blog post about it. I saw that, actually. You say what you obviously saw as you made a comment on it. Thank you. So the Agar clarification process for the grapefruit is very straightforward and works very well, but it takes about 3 days. That's not really helpful if you suddenly have an urge for a spontaneous cocktail. I was wondering if I can make up a larger batch of clarified juice and freeze it in smaller portions enough for a couple of drinks. How well would it keep in the freezer? Would it lose anything over time? It's already been frozen once during the process. I figure it's worth trying. I just wondered if you had an opinion. Thanks, Dave W. Yeah, you could totally freeze it. So grapefruit juice freezes quite well. Clarify grapefruit juice freezes quite well. Clarified apple juice freezes quite well. Uh, clarified uh, lime and lemon juice? No, not so much. They still taste like poison. Not as much. You know, I did a study of pre-mixed drinks that were frozen for a long time versus kept

[34:40] at room temperature. And the room temperature ones did taste more poisonous with the lemon and lime juice in

[34:45] them, then the one in the freezer. But the one in the freezer still tasted poisonous to me. And you know what I'm saying when I'm saying poisonous, right? Like not actually like poison, but you know that like poisonous taste, that detergent, poisonous, like real lemon, like fake, like crap hole, like 70s supermarket

[35:00] flavor, familiar with it. You might know it from such things as like the skinny, like margarita, that skinny, like, lady margarita, like her, that tastes like poison to me. You ever had one of those things? poisonous. It tastes poisonous, right? Why have you had one of those? You've done events where it's there and then they made, remember, we went to an event and they made your drink and they used like stuff like

[35:22] that. Oh my god. No, remember, and we threw it away and we had to go get new. And I've had also, I was, I remember we were at one of these shows, I think it was called the fancy food show. I think it was that one in Javits, and this portion is like, I make, you know, frozen lime juice, concentrate lime

[35:38] juice, and I was like, I hate it. He's like, no, ours is really good. I'm like, but buddy. I hate it. Like, like, he's like, no, try it. I'm like, okay. And the best I could give him was, it's not as terrible as the rest of the poisonous stuff that I'm used to tasting, which is

[35:51] true, which is true. Actually, this is strange. You know how I think lemon chillo tastes poisonous. I actually had a really good lemon cello the other day. I'm going to be using a tails of cocktails at the bar. Do you like livincello? Depends if it's really good. Yeah, doesn't most of it taste like poison? Like detergent, like pledge. Knicks feel the same way? What about Jack? You live in cello guy? Yeah, it's either that pledgy taste or like too sweet. It's hard to find. I like it when it's got both the lemon pledge flavor and the too sweet. That's the best. That's the best. Anyways, I don't know what the hell I was talking about that. So yeah, those things taste like poison. So don't do that, but grapefruit juice, all that stuff is fine. What I would do is if you're going to freeze it. There's a couple ways to freeze it. Uh, ziploc bag, freezer ziploc bags. If you put like however much you want, and then lay them flat on, you know, lay them, like close them like you were going to bag a steak for low temp, put your finger in it, and then like let the air out slowly on a flat counter, pinch it at the

[36:50] end so there's no air bubbles in it. And then just put them on a sheet tray in your freezer until they freeze in a flat configuration.

[36:58] That's the best way. And then you can like stack a lot of them in the freezer. You don't have to worry about it. And they freeze relatively quickly, and because they're flat, they unfreeze relatively quickly, which is also good. And if you're in a good ziploc bag like that, you can throw it into a pan of water and just run warm water on it and thaw it out

[37:14] without like overheating or anything super quickly. If you freeze it in core containers, it takes forever for them to thaw out and it's a huge pain in the butt. And plus also when you drop a quart, when you drop a frozen core container, it cracks. And there's always like, here's what always happens. You pull it out of the freezer, you drop it a little bit, or it cracks, or someone throws something into the freezer, and it cracks the core container. You pull the core container out. You don't know it's cracked until it starts thawing, and the stuff starts leaking out all over it. Here's the real problem with that. Not only that, but the stuff that thaws out 1st is all the sugar and flavor. And so all the sugar and flavor leach out and you're left with a crappy ice cube, and then you're still going to try and use it for a drink because it's all you've got and you feel bad because you wasted all this product. all his time on. So what I'm telling you is don't use the core container. Another alternative? If you know you're only going to make a really like couple, couple of drinks at a time. It's not as ideal from a storage standpoint, but you freeze this stuff down in ice cube trays. They're never going to get as firm as a real ice cube because of the sugar and whatnot. But then pop them, don't leave them in the ice cube trays. rookie move. Pop them out of the ice cube trays, put them in a ziploc container in the fridge, and then you can pull them out cube by cube. Just make sure you measure beforehand the volume of your ice cube trays so you know how much juice is in each cube. And you'll find that if you're decent at it like, you know, your cubes are going to be pretty accurate to within, like, you know, way less than a quarter of an ounce per cube. And so you'll be able to accurately judge how much juice you're going to add,

[38:36] but by throwing certain number of cubes in. Then you can do stuff like the juice shape from the book anyway, whatever. What if he wants to use a liter container? Instead of a, because he's English? Hardy, hardy. Actually, in fact, you know, I found out that most people over the world don't have core containers. Like, like, even when I say most people all over the world, like San Francisco doesn't use core containers. They find them to be ungreen. That's a lie Oh, maybe in Encanto, they used them, but how many restaurants did you go to? Did you like your friends you went to and you're like, where's the core container? And they're like, what is that? Is it green and made of bamboo, right? Come on now. We worked a bunch of events and stars in San Francisco and we can never get freaking cork containers over there. I think they're green because you use them over and over and over again. I've had the same core containers for years. Do you find them to be bad for the environment? If you don't throw them away? Yeah, they're fine. They're fine, right? Yeah, all right. Anyways. Uh, liter containers. So they don't have a ton with a 2 ends and an E. So what about that? What size ziploc bags do they have over there? A 4 liter ziploc? Yeah, instead of a gallon? A liter a liter bag. Yeah, but what like a gallon bag is the one we use. the baller size. like what are those? 4 liters? A 2 liter bag, 4 liter bag? What do they have? We don't even have a 2 liter bag here. don't know. Okay. Uh, did we do the thing on clarification? No, I don't think so. Jasper called in about clarification I know you have a backlog already, which I heard in the last episode, had some questions in regards to

[40:01] Liquid Intelligence book, which I've had for 3 weeks and in 3 weeks and enjoy, so now like 5 weeks.

[40:05] But I will anyway push you some more questions into the FIFO list. I understand there's some known typos. All right, we took care of this one. going to get into that one again. Not going to get into that again. Not going to get into it. Not gonna happen. Oh, Stas, you're so you're so evil. You know, Stas won't read the book, which I don't blame her, by the way, because she has to work with me every day. But here's what she said. I don't even consider it a book. I actually used it on Sunday as a separator. A separator of what? Between 2 hot things to carry to somebody. Wow. Wow, yeah. She can't even look at it as a book. It's like an object. It does contain words. Like, she, like, will admit that, that, like, there are words. So, you know. My name's in the phone book. Uh, okay. My main question, which I guess you may be tired of, is on the topic of clarifying lime juice. I follow the steps in the book, but could not identify any noticeable differences between the steps that you're doing, I

[41:05] guess. Apart from the last one after I ran the centrifuge. My question, by the way, so my line clarification, the way it works in the centrifuge is you juice the limes, you add

[41:15] enzyme and you add something called kesel salt to it, which is suspended silicosol. You wait 15. And what that's doing is the, the, the, um, the enzyme is breaking down the pectin. pecnic, pectonized ultra SPL, but you can't use it by itself because the lime juice is to acidic. So at the same time, you add kesel saw, which is a charged silicas saw. It tracks the charge particles in it, which a lot of the turbid particles are. Most of them are, all of them are, attracts it to it. Nick was trying to say that I'm a turbid particle, which is true. attracts it to it. Then you add the, uh, then you wait 15 minutes for that reaction, then you add the

[41:49] kiesel, uh, the kaeda sand, which is the opposite charge, and it bloms them together again, wait 15 minutes, add the kiesel cell again, reglom in Spanish. That's where it is. Anyway, after you add the Kiesel saw the 2nd time, so this is the last step. How long should you wait prior to running the fuse? 15 minutes in the previous steps? I'm adding that question. In the previous steps? Or can you go ahead and run the fuse immediately as implicitly implied in the book? You can pretty much run it immediately. Like, you know, I would wait a couple minutes, but you could pretty much run it right away. My centrifuge has cooling, what temperature do you recommend when spinning? Run it as cold as you can, but not without freezing it. Like I run it, run it like, running it like, you know, zero or like four. I think we keep ours at like 4 when the when the refrigerator's working, that is, we keep it at four. Should the final clarified juice, apart from being transparent, also be colorless? No. No, no, no. Clarified strawberry juice is bright red thank God. Imagine if I go strawberry. Remember, so like the Roka is, right? Like Juan Roka, Geordi Roka, those guys in Elkalar, Ken Roka, like they used to do clear desserts where they would actually rotovap things and make them colorless because they were doing distillation.

[42:56] Distillation is the only real way, you know, other than like, you know, stripping color with charcoal to make something, because that's how they do it with rum, by the way, with, you know, they age

[43:05] rum and then they strip the color out with charcoal. I don't care. Uh, the, uh, so, usually, like, that's the only way to get rid of color. So like, remember that clear is different from colorless. So like strawberry juice, if you can read a newspaper through it, it's clarified. Uh, but the newsprint's not necessarily good at me, it's not necessarily going to look white. You know what I mean? It's going to look like the color. So lime juice should be kind of like a very light green, very light green. Anyway, thanks for the program and support. Jasper from Sweden. Okay, and we have some more cocktail questions. First, well, what? Just so you know, we're running out of time. Okay, so we will get to the punch regency punch question on the next time. I have a whole bunch on regency punch. So whoever wrote in on Fat Washing and Regency Punch. I think it's BJD. We'll get to you next time on cooking issues. Thanks for listening to this program on HeritageRadionetwork.org. You can find all of our archived programs on our website or as podcasts in the iTunes

[44:16] store by searching Heritage Radio Network. You can like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter at Heritage underscore radio. You can email us with questions anytime at info at heritageradionetwork.org. Heritage Radio Network is a 501c 3 nonprofit. To donate and become a member, visit our website today. Thanks for listening.