[0:00] Today's program is brought to you by White Oak Pastures, a 5 generation Georgia-based beef and poultry farm determined to conduct business in an honorable manner.

[0:09] For more information, visit whiteoakpastures.com. I'm Damon Bolty, host of the speakeasy. You're listening to Heritage radio network, broadcasting live from Bushwick, Brooklyn. If you like this program, visit Heritage Radio Network.org for 1000s more.

[0:30] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live on the Heritage Radio Network from Roberta's Pizzeria, where in Bushwick. Brooklyn. Hello. Hey. Joined, as usual, with Nastasia, the Hammer Lopez. We got Jack, and I got, we got, why are the lights over there in the engineering booth? How you gentlefolk doing? I'm going to speak for both of us. We're great. You're like, I'm not going to let Wyatt talk because what if he's not doing well, then what? Then what? How about you, Stas? I'm okay. Yeah? You got good stuff going on? No. So I was like, the best I could hope for us and not have crap going on. Good stuff is like, you know, way too far. So apparently tomorrow, vice, the vice, the network slash. Never heard of it. Never, never heard of that. You've heard of Vice the actual, you know, like sin, right? Yeah, that I've heard of. And you've heard of the of the Black Crow song Virtue advice, right? Bad I've heard of, too? Yeah. They have this they have this network. It's based on that on that principle. And they have a show called The Munchies. And apparently they're gonna air the foie gras thing that I worked on with them a number of months ago based on the California ban on foie gras, but that's not what I wanted to talk about. What I want to talk about was I had to go do like some last minute voiceovers last week at their offices in Brooklyn. They're over in Williamsburg, Jack, by the way. Greenpoint, I think, no? Uh, no, I mean, it's still Williamsburg. It's like the border. Williams Point. Anyway. Yeah, I biked over there, and for the 1st time in like 5 years, my pant leg came

[2:09] untucked from my sock without me knowing, and it just ripped the bottom half of my pants off. It was awesome. I looked like, uh, I don't know, I looked like that guy. I remember from the Grateful Dead concert. You probably looked like somebody who works at Vice. Well, there you go. They actually seem like very nice folks, but I was there in the, in the voiceover booth, and I, they had, you know, Snoop Dogg's reincarnation where he's, now he's Snoop Lion, and

[2:30] he's like smokes a lot of pot in, uh, in Jamaica. Anyways. So they had a big poster for that. I was like, oh, you guys did that? like, yeah, Snoop Dogg did voiceovers in this room. I was like, what? I was doing some voiceovers in this. And I told them. I was like, the only reason that we started Booker and Dax the bar was in hopes of getting Snoop Dogg to come in and have some gin and juice and were unsuccessful. So maybe they're gonna, maybe they're gonna work on that. You think? That'd be awesome. Right? That's good. Also, I have to show, I'm just being a jerk, but Helen Hollyman runs Munchy. She's awesome. She used to have a show here called You Look Hungry. So. Did you in fact look hungry at that time? Um, I didn't. Maybe she did. No, I guess I did. I looked a little hungrier back then. Like now it's just, who cares anymore? No longer hungry. Uh, got another uh, interesting story. By the way, should you have questions, cooking related or otherwise, why don't you write the call them in too? 718-497-2128 That's 718-497-2128. 71 what? the new Brooklyn exchange, by the way? anyone know? It's not just 718 anymore, right? I think there's a 646. No, that's that's everywhere. Oh, there's a new Brooklyn? No, I'm asking because I have no idea. Like back in the day, right? You had your Manhattan, which was your 212. Which is, I have a 212 cell phone. Somehow. We know. Fancy man. And then you had 718 was everybody else. You know what I mean? And then, you know, 917 came. We had our cell phones, but now it's just, it's all over the freaking map. Even Jack, a Brooklyn resident can get a 2 on 2 on his cell phone. The hell is that all about? What joke? Yeah, yeah. numbers don't mean anything anymore, you know? It used to mean, like, you know, you could tell something about someone by the by their telephone number. Not anymore. Now it's wasted. So this morning, by the way, you were familiar with wasabi oil, Stas? No. Jack, wasabi oil? Like real wasabi? Well, it's not. No, that's the thing. It's like real wasabi in the way that truffle oil is real truffles. It's not, you know. So what it typically is, is, um, some form of neutral oil carrier

[4:35] with, uh, mustard oil in it, the spicy stuff, not the unspicy stuff, and then a couple of other flavorings that are added to make it approximate wasabi,

[4:43] right? And even though it's not real, I love it. I think it's good stuff. But, but, it's, were you there that time I had that like half hour or hour long argument with Dave Chang about wasabi mashed potatoes? Yeah, whatever. get into it. But the uh, he hates them. He thinks that you cannot make a good mashed potato with any flavoring of

[5:03] wasabi in it. And I disagree. I think that a potato. I'm not saying that it's not like used or spent or that like, you know, I don't know, maybe Applebee's had it on their menu at some time or

[5:14] whatever, or I'm not saying it's not like ridiculously cross-cultural in some sort of

[5:18] way, but there's nothing wrong. Like, if you were to have, if someone, if you were having, like, mashed potatoes and somebody dropped a little wasabi in from the sushi that they were eating and you tasted it and they were really creamy mashed potatoes, you wouldn't be like, this sucks.

[5:31] You know what I mean? But I couldn't get that, couldn't get the three. know, another thing, it's good. Miso cream miso soup. Also good. Is it traditional? No. Does it taste good? Yeah. Yeah, it tastes good. Anyway, well, I'm not gonna get into it. I happen to like wasabi oil for various applications. So I have some in my house. Now, wasabi oil is earth shatteringly, um, pungent in the way horseradish is, right, to your nose in your eyes, right? So Dax wakes up this morning. And he goes to the pantry and kids, right? He's 10. He just turned 10. Totally, they don't care where their body is. They knock stuff over. They used to it. They're like, it's an accident. I'm like, it's, I mean, it is an accident and the fact that you didn't intend to do it. But on the other hand, it's not an accident and that you didn't arrange your life such that you wouldn't happen. You know what I mean? Like, that's, that's what I try to tell them all the time. You know, it's like, so anyways, so he reaches in, grabs something, pulls out, knocks over the freaking bottle of wasabi

[6:28] oil. It does like a triple somersault, opens, and pours wasabi oil all over our Roomba, our robotic vacuum

[6:38] system, all over the floor, all over Dax's hands. I'm like, oh my god. Genuine, except she hears me saying, 0 my god, because it's like the worst thing that could ever happen. And then all of a sudden, Dax. I think he touched his face with his hands and he starts going, my eyes. My eyes! We're running around, we're like flushing him, and I literally, in the pantry, which is

[7:00] closed, couldn't stay in there for longer than 5 seconds at a time while we were cleaning up all this wasabi oil.

[7:06] He's like, daddy, you should not have that stuff in the house. And I'm like, nah, you should not spill that stuff, Dax. kind of true. What do you mean? Or like up high or something, you know? Well, they can't, a pie, where they can't. Yeah, I guess, but you know, he climbs on top of chairs and whatever. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. anyway. nightmare. You got a caller? I do? I don't I call her? Color, you're on the air. Hi, can you hear me? Yeah sure. So I have a question about immersion circulators and

[7:37] making stock last broth. I, I got a, uh, one of the, uh, the sand stairs stick for, for Christmas and I've been fooling around with it. And I was wondering if there's any, any, any reason that you

[7:50] would want to cook in water to make a, cook, cook meat and make a broth and extract the liquid. I don't know if, you know, if it's, you know, gonna make a less flavored broth than you would if you just cook it at higher temperatures. But I sort of like the idea of, you know, of having the meat usable, having the broth flavored, and I guess, Indiana, I would like to see if there's any way to make a,

[8:13] like a bolito meat, so perfectly cooked with all the meat together, but that's sort of a long term.

[8:21] Right. I kind of understand what you mean. Here are the issues, right? So when you're doing a low temp work with a stock, you're never going to get the kind of gelatin extraction that you would

[8:32] get, because the temperatures on our side, it's going to take, you know, forever and whatnot. But you are onto something, um, and I use this kind of technique a lot or used to, uh, for a number of reasons. Okay, so what are they? Typically, when you're when you're cooking a stock, you need relatively large quantity of whatever you're going to flavor the stock with to to make, um, and you you need a relatively large quantity of water,

[9:02] right? And so this can be antithetical to the meat tasting good and to how you're going to make your stuff, or you just simply might not have enough of your product around. So the classic one that we always did back at the FCI was a squab. You know, you want to make a very strong tasting squab, like roast bones squab stock, but you, you know, you don't have that many squab bones. So what do you do? So what we would do then is take an already made stock, pack a not that much, you know, not that high amount of it

[9:29] in into a bag and circulate it, and then you can extract that flavor out of the relatively small quantity of meat and bones that you have and get a really squabby kind of

[9:38] the stock. That would be difficult to do in a pot just because you don't have that many of them around, right? So that's one kind of an application. But the other thing is, is that you have the ability to do full wet cooking, like, you know, like a poach, but in a much smaller amount of liquid. So if you start with a cooking liquid that is uh, equal

[10:03] to uh, or higher in flavor than the meat that you're using, then you will not

[10:10] leach, uh, you know, huge amounts of flavor out of your meat, you might transfer like they might equalize in flavor somehow, but you're not going to leach a huge amount of flavor

[10:21] out. If you add a bunch of water to the, to the meat, then obviously you're going to be leaching some of the flavor out. But a lot of times that's okay, because we kind of like the flavor of like a mild poached thing where it's kind of in a stock, or if you're doing like a

[10:35] pas de feu or something like this, you're used to having the meat itself not be as flavorful because it's been leached out somewhat by the stock, but you can create

[10:42] a, you know, because you're not using as much water, you can have it more intensely flavored. However, you're not going to have that much reduction. So you have to take into account the fact that there's no reduction and decrease proportionately the amount of liquid that you're going to put in. The, um, other thing is, is that usually when you're in a bag at low temperature, uh, I mean, you can go very high temperature, you

[11:04] could boil it, in which case that's not the case, but in lower temperature, uh, even though you're going to extract flavors out as you cook in

[11:09] a broth, you're never going to get that shredded consistency that you would get from the higher

[11:13] temperature just because that just doesn't happen. in the bag at those low temperatures. Now, you could just put the bag in and boil it, which is what we would do, not boil it, but simmer it, which is what we would do for

[11:23] squab stocks because really we're trying to get maximum flavor extraction out. We're not trying to keep the meat of that stock at a, at a kind of a nice eating texture, right? Because it's hard to get it kind of both ways there. The other caveat, I would add, is any veg that you're going to put in, you got to pre-cook because unless you're going to do very high temps, like traditional temps, in which case it'll all taste traditional, but if you're not going to do traditional temps, you're not going to cook the veg at the same

[11:50] temperature, you're going to cook the meat. Is this being helpful at all or no? Yeah, no, I think I think it's a matter of experimentation too. Because I, you know, I don't really have that much experience with the bad cooking period. Yeah. I think it's just figuring out what works and what doesn't. I mean, I think that I don't have a pressure cooker, but I've also been thinking that I should get one to combine the methods and make a really intense stock, and then combine it with meats cooked and bag, and then sort of combine them at the end, and maybe something, you know,

[12:19] in, I, I imagine it could have, you know, more flavor, both elements than, than doing, uh, just boiling in, in the

[12:26] liquid, that makes sense. Right, sure. Well, there's, I mean, well, okay, well, I'll break it down to you there in terms of kind of how to think when you're running your experiments. And once you start thinking in terms of what the bag does versus what your normal cooking does, it's, you know,

[12:41] it's pretty, pretty simple. You got to break the bag down into 2 different components. You either, A, use the bag. Well, A, use the bag because you want to cook low temperature, right? In which case, now you're talking about temperature control phenomenon, right? And that's what you're aiming to work at. Or two, you're using the bag because you, um, don't want to have to use a lot of liquid and the bag is going to keep your liquid in contact with your product,

[13:09] right? So those are the 2 kind of reasons you would choose it. The 3rd is you're not going to lose volatiles out of the bag, the way that you would lose when you're cooking, and that's good for certain kinds of flavors that tend to change a lot because they

[13:22] volatilize as you cook. But you have to add to that the fact that there is no reduction in the bag. I mean, that's the primary, that's the primary thing that people fail to wrap their heads around, all other cooking techniques that aren't in the bag, even in some pressure cookers, although pressure, if you're used to pressure cookers, you'll notice that you get much less reduction in

[13:43] the pressure, even a venting pressure cooker, non-venting pressure cooker is almost like a bag

[13:47] and that you get almost no reduction, but that's very hard to kind of wrap your head around because when you're doing traditional cooking that's not sealed, right, you're used to at least getting, even if it doesn't look like it's reducing that

[13:59] much. Remember as a meat cooks, it gives off juices. And as it gives off juices, those dilute the juices that are in

[14:05] the bag or in the pressure cooker, which is why. Do you think, let's just say for an experiment. What's just fill a pot with water, have a, you know, a chicken in it? Okay, without the bag, is it, you're not gonna get enough gelatin extraction to make the, have the stock have a body, and you're also just cooking it too low of a temperature to get flavor into the water, as, you know, even removing it from

[14:28] the, the bag of the equation entirely. Here, if there's any value in that at all. Oh, uh, yeah, I mean, look, a lot depends. If you, like, I used to do, before I had the, like, Jacques Pepin had a book that came out in the

[14:42] 80s. It was kind of his 2 volume set of how to cook the color one, not the black and white

[14:46] one. It was great. And he had a, uh, a recipe for chicken salad that, uh, that was Danny Kay's original recipe. Uh, you know, the composer and actor and uh, and uh, conductor. Actually, I don't know if he was a composer, a conductor and actor. And, uh, his old recipe for cooking the chicken was to load it into a pot, just barely cover it with water, bring it up to a simmer, then cover it and let it

[15:12] ride the same way that, you know, a lot of people do with, uh, in fact, the way I do

[15:16] it with boiled eggs, when you're doing a lot of hard-boiled eggs. You know, bring it up to a simmer and let it ride, because it's not going to overcook that much as it cools down, but you're in that window of cooking temperature long

[15:24] enough. Yeah. And I used to do that all the time. And I would always, you know, even if I was going to take out the breast hack them up and pack them down, as long as your water to meat ratio is relatively

[15:37] low. The broth tastes pretty dang good. It does not going to have the gelatin extraction. It's never going to have the body that a fully cooked stock was, but it tastes quite delicious. Yeah. And so I said, just to finish up, if you're doing it, going back to the bag with a minimum amount of liquid. Do you want the liquid? What do you want to do with seasoning beforehand? You want the liquid fully seasoned beforehand, and then

[16:00] salt the meat, or is that, is it different with, with a lot of liquid versus a minimal amount of liquid, or is it, again, you have to experiment to figure out what tastes

[16:09] right? I mean, you have to do some experimenting, but just know

[16:15] that when you put raw meat into a bag with a liquid, the quantity of liquid is going to increase drastically when you

[16:25] cook, right? And so in general, um, I kind of have to overreduce. It doesn't necessarily mean over spice, but that just means kind of over reduce, um, and in,

[16:38] in general, like it's hard to say with a specific recipe you're going to use, in general, when you're putting something into a bag, vacuum sealing it in a bag, a rule of thumb

[16:47] is, if the seasoning in question has an aroma, right, then you decrease

[16:54] it, the amount that's going in. And if you have something that's no aroma, which really what we're talking about here is salt, right? Then you keep the level the same because the bag tends to intensify flavors

[17:06] that are very high in aromatics. think rosemary, think sage. And also like those herbs can, if they're in direct contact with meat in a bag,

[17:17] actually imprint themselves and make a little kind of like green spot and kind of like a weird funky flavor right at the point of

[17:25] contact. If there's a hard vacuum sucked against an herb without any sort of liquid in there. So as a general rule of thumb. I would, uh, salt everything as per normal. If the meat has the right amount of salt on it, and even your hyper reduced stock has the right amount of salt in it as it's reduced, then when they all come together, they should be

[17:46] okay. Um, And other things, you know, decrease in order. Like I don't decrease pepper on the outside of my steak when I'm going to put it in the bag, but I do decrease things like rosemary. You know? Well, I think I think this is super helpful. So I think at the at fewer variables before moving up to the Polito Misto, and there are going to be 10 variables. Yeah, well, again, it's like another thing is, remember, if you, what I typically what

[18:13] I'll do when I'm doing work in the bag is there's certain things that I know I'm not going to eat that are only for like a stock, right?

[18:22] And they're not going to be for the final service. And so those things I'll pressure cook and make a pre-pressure cooked stock that's like done. And then that one, you'll add, you'll reduce and add in as a base in your bag, and then you can get that nice kind of like poached flavor out with a much more intense flavor in the bag without overcooking the meat.

[18:40] Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes perfect sense because that's it, you know, some of these, you know, something like turkey wings and deal

[18:47] bones and stuff like that that you're not going to serve. Anyway as a meat. Yeah, roast them and pressure cook them. You know, hack them up, roast them, pressure cook them. Remember when you're pressure cooking. You have to, um, one of two, one of 2 problems will happen. You either need to add a lot more alliums, like things like onion or garlic,

[19:08] because the flavors of those things are very highly muted. So you need to add a bunch of it. The flip side of that is all of a sudden your stock becomes a lot sweeter. You know what I mean? Or you can freshen it with a little bit of, um, like sauteed, whatever you like, you know, leeks, shallots, onions, whatever you

[19:29] like. You know what I mean? But you can freshen it up after the pressure cook with that. Or, I mean, I've come to really like that kind of muted sweet flavor, but I

[19:36] just like easily double or triple the amount of onion that I would add to a normal stock when I'm doing it, but it does come out a bit

[19:42] sweeter, is the one caveat I'll have to give you. Okay. Well, it looks like I'll have to invest in the pressure cooker. Oh, definitely. Definitely. All right. This is super helpful. I'll you know how it goes. All right. thanks for calling in All right, so wait. You want to take a break and come back with some more cooking issues? All right, Jack. Hey, wait, Dave, how do you how do you pronounce pho? Oh, I'm terrible at that. I don't know that. Yeah, a good one there. I forget how you said it, but it was, I never heard it quite like that. Well, did that even mention Vietnamese? I thought so. I don't know. No, I was probably saying something else, man. Oh, no, pas a fut. French. Oh, my bad. We'll be right back.

[20:38] Special break song today by a band called Mamarazzi. This is cooking issues on Heritage Radio Network.

[20:50] Why don't Passures is the only farm in the United States that has its own USDA inspected red meat abattoir, or slaughterhouse, and its own USDA inspected poultry abattoir,

[21:04] a slaughterhouse. We partner with Whole Foods to deliver our high

[21:08] quality, meat and poultry from Miami, Florida, all the way to Princeton, New Jersey. One family, one farm, five generations, 145

[21:17] years, full circle return to sustainable land stewardship, humane animal stockmanship. For more information, please visit our website, whiteoakpastages.com. Okay, Jack. When did you change the background to that to like Porn Ribian music? Did that just for you today? Yeah? Nice. I like that. It's like, you know, he used to have like the, you know, does he know that

[21:45] his like... Well, no, it's an ad. His ad is without music. So whatever the break song is, that's what we play underneath his ad. So, you know, it's you never know what you're going to get. Wow, yeah, I like that. Yeah. Spices it up, you know? Yeah, definitely. Definitely. By the way, we have a question that you're going to have to answer later that came in that, you know, hopefully, hopefully, we get to. Cool. Here's an update from Bryce J.D. on his Rumtoff. You remember we were talking about keeping fruits firm as they're soaking in liquor over many months.

[22:19] So we have our several months later, um, update. I wanted to inform Dave of my results on dosing rum top with novo shape. Novo shape is the enzyme. It's a pectin methylestrace enzyme that helps fruits stay firm. Oh, man, anything with peck, then you really stay firm. Like you could use it with cucumbers, when you're doing pickles, but, you know, you could do things like soak it, uh, soak, uh, you need calcium with it, but you can soak,

[22:45] uh, like raspberries with it and then boil the hell out of them and nothing happens to them. Anyway, the fruit firmed up nicely. I started my batch in June and added fruit and rum throughout the summer. I was unable to use the fruit, though, as it took on a nasty brown color. Look at it, Stas. Oh, yeah, she, I saw her, her lip just went, nasty brown color lip because in her mind, I think it's associated with fungus and

[23:09] spools, and we all know how she feels about that. I strained out the solids and was left with a clear pinkish liqueur. The liqueur is quite nice, floral, fruity, and not overly sweet. I was wondering if they may know why the fruit turned brown. It would have been nice to have the fruit for a short bread or ice cream topping. You could have baked it into something, though. You could have blended that stuff up, right? Made some, right? Even if it's, I mean, we could have color up the color somehow. Right? I don't know. It's gone now. It's over now. fruit's gone now. It would have been nice to have had the fruit for a shortbread and ice cream topping. Also, was the liqueur clear because the novo shape allowed the fruit to maintain its structure and not transfer solids into the liqueur,

[23:51] respectfully send for my iPhone, Bryce JD. Well, I guess that's probably a good point. I hadn't thought about that before, but that's probably true. It didn't break down, so the liquor remained clear, right? That makes sense. But as for the browning, uh, what you're dealing with here is a, um,

[24:07] a kind of long, long-term browning effect, you need to add some antioxidants to that sucker, right?

[24:14] So when you're doing it, you're going to either have to add, uh, some

[24:17] esquerbic acid to it, right? Although, remember, that's going to lose its antioxid potential over time. But I prefer it. You know, like, I don't like the sodium metabisulfates and all those things, but you're

[24:28] gonna need to add some form of uh, anti uh, oxidant to it. And that should inhibit the browning. Most likely, what you're looking at there is some form of oxidative browning that takes course over a long period of time, even under the influence of heavy alcohol, whether it's enzymatic in nature, even though that those enzymes are like mostly denatured or destroyed by the, um, by the

[24:55] booze or whether you're dealing with the fact that, um, you know, the enzyme is just catalyzing some, uh, catalyzing something that would take place over

[25:01] a long period of time anyway. So you just need to prevent the oxidation from happening anyway, you know how. High booze, one way. And, um, antioxidants another way. And so I would definitely add some antioxidants to it next time and see whether that helps. But anyone that has experience with that. I encourage them to write in. Let us know. Okay? All right. Um, Joshua writes in about equipment. Greetings from Switzerland. Yeah, Stas had her happy face on. She likes the Swiss. Well, she doesn't like the Swiss. She likes the country, Switzerland, and she appreciates their fondue and their cheese. It's a fondue thing. She loves fondue. St loves fondue. I was thinking of doing a fondue party next year for the kids. do you think? That's good. I think they like it. Yeah, I did. Chocolate, but I wanted to do also the boiling oil, old school, but

[25:47] Jim was like, meh, boiling oil, kids? Yeah, maybe. I don't know. Remember, my 10 year old just threw wasabi oil all over the house today. So, you know, that was a knockback in that in that direction. This year was sushi. That is an expensive party to throw. The sushi party. I bought the super fancy rice too, everything. And then full on. Yeah. And man, those kids don't know how to roll. It's pretty hard though. And then they want me to cut it right away. So, like, you know, I'm having to wipe my knife in between each cut because the grains are sticking to it.

[26:17] And so the kids just start eating it like it's a freaking tube. Like, it's a fruit roll. In fact, he said, it's a burrito. And I told Dax, I was like, Dax. Who the hell taught you to make a burrito like this? It's like if you made a burrito in this fashion, I would be, I mean, I said that I

[26:32] would, I would become violently angry. He didn't fold the edges in. I mean, it's not a burrito. It's like a taquito. It's been, and it's taquito, it's fried. You know what I mean? I'll say it's so, like, I was so pretzled by that whole thing. And then, like, you know, you have to dip your hand in the vinegar water, but they're dipping that hand in the vinegar water and then touching the Nori. I'm like, ah! You know what I mean? Like, it's like ruining the crunchiness on the Nori. And so why did I spend all the money on the good Nori? I'm getting the nicest, darkest, dentest, crunchiest Nori, flaming it with a sears, all the crisp it up. That's what happens when you throw a sushi party for kids. Well, they specifically asked for it. But I tell you what, Booker, I thought Jen likes a fine pair of sushi. Oh, God. Well, 1st of all, they're not talking about that on air. By the way, if any of you ever meet Dax. Don't mention that I talked about the wasabi oil because he's embarrassed by it, but Jen, my wife, Jen, and I, used to laugh at

[27:25] Finefair is our local supermarket, and we're like, I was like, did I tell the, talk about

[27:29] something there already? I probably shouldn't. going to get in trouble. Thanks, Stas, but now I have to tell people what it is. No, but if someone's gonna, who knows? You never know? anyway. So we're all like, hey, five fair sushi. Who's gonna eat five fish sushi? That's ridiculous. You know what I mean? And lo and behold, one day she wasn't thinking, she buys the freaking fine fair sushi. And wow. I had to go pick her up. She was like on the curb. She was on the curb, couldn't move anymore, and called me and I had to go get her because she just got debilitated by

[28:00] the, by the sweet, sweet, sweet, fine fair sushi. Just don't order. don't order sushi from a, like, don't buy the, the sitting out sushi at the, at the supermarket. Don't do that. Jack, do you do that? But listen, my wife is like a very, not just educated, talented, but educated food wise. You know what I mean? So she knows it was crazy. So I don't want to hear anyone telling, I don't want to hear this story game back there that you brought this up on the air because it's not her proudest moment. It's right up there with me licking lie by mistake. Yeah, you remember that one. anyway. How the hell did we get on that? Oh, Switzerland. Sushi. Sushi. Sushi part? No, Switzerland, because next year I was saying we could do a fondue party. Because fondue is a good product, and the kids would enjoy that. It's not really make your own in the same way that pizza and sushi is, though. Maybe it is. whatever. Okay, my question, this is Joshua from Switzerland. My question relates to kitchen equipment. I'm a proud owner of an immersion circulator and an even prouder owner of a polycience 300 chamber vacuum sealer, which currently doesn't work, but that's another story.

[29:04] Um, I would like to know what else I should get to experiment in my kitchen. I would like something that is versatile. I can't read what you actually wrote because it's a lot of little boxes and squared doodles. Like, you know how that happens sometimes? Like this. It's like all the boxes and doodles and squiggles, like Linus when he talks, like Linus from Peanuts. You know they're having a new peanuts movie coming out and they're changing whatever. withholding judgment. I would like to have something that is versatile on which I can use to experiment with various foodstuffs. My 1st thought was a centrifuge. Okay, so listen, if your 1st thought is a centrifuge, I'm going to assume that you have like, you know, a decent, well, I assume if you're Swiss, you have a coon recon pressure cooker,

[29:45] right? Because don't they give it? Swiss German, though. And I'm sure this guy switches German. no Italian Swiss person. Well, I was saying, like, when you're born, maybe in Switzerland, they give you a coon recon pressure cooker, the same way that when you're born in Sweden, they give you a copy of the ABBA

[29:59] album so that they can still be like a hugely selling album, right? Um, Anyway, um, my 1st

[30:06] thought was a centrifuge, would you agree on that or would you look into something else? And if you agree on this interfuge, What do you think about the Beckman Coulter Allegra series? Thanks for your help. Cheers, Joshua. Well, I think a centerfuge is fantastic. I love it, but I mean, it all depends on how much cash you have. The Allegra costs. I mean, if you're going to spend 6000 bucks or €6000 on the next piece of kitchen equipment and you're not blinking when you do that, then I think centrifuge is a great thing to buy, right?

[30:31] Um, because it's extremely versatile. You can do a lot of different things with it. I looked briefly at the Beckman Coulter, Allegra ones. They're spinning bucket rotors look like they only get up to about, there's a bunch of different series. you have to look at what you get. Their swinging bucket ones look like they can do 3 liters, but they look like they only get to roughly

[30:51] 3700 Gs somewhere in there, which is like on the verge of what I think is kind of good for that price range.

[30:57] Most of the people that I know who get new centrifuges for the restaurant or bar get headache, which is also available. I think it's German. And it's also available in Europe. Wiley DuFreyne uses a headache. Um, and uh, Tony Canayaro in uh, London uses a headache. I think you also might have one in Paris as Barbara. I'm not sure. So I would look at the headaches. They have pretty good numbers and they work well, but I looked at the Allegra. It should work. If you can get one, they don't swinging bucket, they'll do 4000 G's, then, you know, all the better. But, um, it's a good question. Like if you're going to spend 8 grand, there's a lot of stuff you could buy for 8 grand, right? Like a couple extra circulators, which I would definitely buy, or, um, what else? I mean, a Paco Jet. I would love to have ApocoJet. What did you buy 1st does? What do you think I would get first? Apoco jet or centrifuge? Centrifuge? Probably for me though, but I do a lot of bar work. I mean, I think a lot of chefs would prefer apoco. I mean, if you look around, more there's more paco jets than there are centrifuges around. Um, good coffee setup is another thing, but it's not necessarily versatile. You know what I mean? I mean, if you're going to do a lot of bar, if you're not going to do a lot of bar work. I don't know that you're going to spend like that much time with your centrifuge. It's a good question, though. Anyway. Derek writes in regarding ice. Hi, Dave, I follow the procedure for making clear ice in the freezer from Liquid Intelligence, that's the book by pouring hot water into a cooler. I left it outside. Uh, um, this is approximately, oh, outside, outside, 35 Fahrenheit. So you live in the northeast somewhere north somewhere. For a few hours to cool down, then put it in the freezer. The next morning, I opened it to add some stock cubes to an existing stash, and there were ice crystals all over the lid and walls of the freezer.

[32:38] If I were to fasten a piece of plastic wrap over the cooler the next time, would that prevent crystal formation in my

[32:43] freezer, or would it end, or would it mess up the ice block formation? Thanks, Derek. Well, it might mess up the ice block formation. What I would say is put the plastic wrap over it. That will definitely stop some of the, you know, steam and crap from coming up and then just remove it right as the ice is starting to

[33:03] form. Uh, I would, don't leave it on. You're not, you definitely want to get rid of any insulating layer between the ice formation and

[33:12] the ice formation front and the freezer as it's freezing, but I don't think it's going to hurt the ice block formation to have

[33:19] plastic wrap over it in the initial couple of hours as it's cooling down. And that should greatly reduce the amount of crystallization you get all over the inside of your

[33:28] freezer. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I mean, what I typically do is I throw,

[33:36] I use hot water, put it right in, throw ice cubes in, and get it down to basically below room temperature, and as the ice cubes are melting out, and I just don't stir it, and I put it in, which is another thing, but you have to have clear smaller ice

[33:49] cubes sitting around for seeds, which is what I do. Not really seeds. Don't think of it of seeds, and not seeds. Take back that, take back the word and it's seeds. Okay. Look who's here. What? who's here? Who's here? Johnny. Johnny Azini? No, no. From Madison? Johnny Hunter? Really? Come on in. Nice. Hi. We are joined in the studio now unexpectedly. Johnny Hunter from the from the Underground Food Collective in Madison, Wisconsin. How you doing? doing pretty well. How are you? Sorry, I just heard recently that you did a pop-up in the Brooklyn. Yeah, we did 2 days at Fitzgeraldo, so how was it? was great. I have to say, we've done pop-ups in Manhattan, and the kitchen size is a little bit better in

[34:36] Brooklyn, we found out. Uh, yeah. Yeah, I would say that that's true. The benefits were really nice. So yeah, it was super fun. Friend runs the restaurant, so we just, I was like, I had to come out here anyway, so we always try to like line it up between doing events and also other things we have to come out for.

[34:53] So. So what did you, what did you make? anything? It was mostly an exploration of like fermented turnips. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. It's like, for us, winter is like Wisconsin, so much of our food, so I think it's our,

[35:07] it's we really try to go big time with like fresh flavors with winter

[35:12] vegetables. That was the whole thing. And then we had a bunch of beef that was, we called it old beef, so we aged it out for about 6 months. And then we just served that raw. What else do we do? By the way, how frozen up is MadTown right now? It's actually really nice. It's like 35. there was like 2 weeks there where it was like -20. But are people skating on the lakes yet or no? Yep. Yeah. That's the best part. If you can be active, your life is much better there. No, I mean, like, well, maybe it's probably not smart to visit in the wintertime for a non-person from there, right?

[35:49] Uh, I think the 1st 2 weeks of January generally have these days that are just like people just don't know how to deal with it. It's like, you know, you get in and it's like really cold and there are things you really need to be recognizing of like, you know, layering and just like having hats and good gloves and

[36:07] making sure that you're not, you know, you don't have your kids out in like the harsh elements, but the thing is, is like people are just really industrious about it. And like, it's just a reality. Yeah, man, wow. Yeah, you know, us us wussies here from New York, you know, we look down on the people from the south who can't handle the code, but we're like, you know, we're nothing. We're jackwads to you guys. I'm glad you're here, actually, because I have a coffee and a coffee. centerfuge, another centrifuge question, and I would like to talk about your story, your centrifuge story, if possible. Okay, so we got a question in last week from Steven Hoppy from Chicago. And he said that contact, he'd want to know whether or not he should buy the centrifuge. And I said, meh, meh. I think that's what I said, roughly. What was it because of the brand or because of whether or not he should get it? I couldn't see on the inside. There was a lot of like issues and it didn't get to a high enough. There's a lot of issues. Anyway, I contacted a seller and he said they don't have a rotor for the unit. Don't ever buy a used centrifuge without a rotor unless you have another one stay next to it with a rotor, right? That a parts fuge. You know? Yeah, I mean, maybe I'll just explain our experience with Centerfugees because we have the University of Wisconsin there. Yeah. And so they, we get about we, I have like 15 now. You should go to business selling these suckers. And so it's been this thing where, you know, I've learned a lot about how to take

[37:35] them apart and use them and stuff because it's just like, it's like, if something's not working, I was like, well, just grab it out of that one. We haven't even plugged them all in yet. So, you know, it's hard when I see people looking on eBay and asking a lot of questions, it's like, well, I got to go and inspect them and look at them and stuff. And so you do, you know, and I should say, I do like getting new rotors because we had that experience where the rotor broke.

[37:57] That's what I wanted you to kind of talk about. Johnny's the only, like, cook I know of that's had a real freaking failure, like a real freaking rotor failure.

[38:06] You wanna describe this? Yeah, so we have, what's the brand now? It's, uh, they had the square buckets. That, I can't remember, but it was, it's not the, the Julie or what? Not the Juan. Wasn't it like, didn't Beckman cool? Yep, Beckman. Um, so we, we had a Beckman and it had a glass top, which was awesome. Oh, yeah, I've used those before. awesome. Yeah, yeah. And we, you know, we went through and we, you know, visually inspected everything.

[38:35] Um, but we didn't, there, there's a centerfuge company in town that will, you know, pressure test the steal and stuff like that. We didn't do everything. Yeah. So we did that. We do that now. Anyway, so we had a bucket, we had a bucket that, that broke because it had a hairline fracture that we didn't know about, and it threw the bucket into the wall of the centrifuge, which then moved the

[38:59] centrifuge 3 feet. Um, and like shook the building, which is just like a concrete

[39:07] floor and everyone was just like, someone was standing, you know, near it and it wouldn't, it wouldn't have hurt anyone bad. Not bad. I mean, like, you know, like, you know, broken leg maybe, but. It also happened like within the 1st week that we had

[39:23] it and so like the centrifuge was definitely a scared thing around the

[39:28] kitchen. So we've taken a lot more precautions now. I'm glad you soldiered on. He's like, it wouldn't have hurt any worse than stepping in a bear trap. That happens like every every other day anyway. But man, yeah, the building's not like some sort of puny flimsy building that you should be able to hear minor things

[39:42] through. It's an old bus station. Yeah, well, here's the good news, though. The good news is, and I had been worried for a long time because it's the same class of centrifuge that, you know, a lot of us have, which is a

[39:52] 3 liter benchtop fuge. Um, and they all roughly do about, they all, Molly hold roughly 3 liters, and they roughly do about 4000 Gs. And I had never seen one fail, so it'd always been my impression that no one would die. And then when Johnny was like, hey, it happened. I was like, hey, did anybody die? He's like, no, I'm like, sweet. You know what I mean? Yeah, it was that Mark the Spark was the person sitting next to it. Oh, classic. Classic. All right. So, uh, we had a, uh, this is more of a comment on last week. remember we were talking about my new coffee grinder thing that I was working on orphan espresso. Remember I was talking about those guys? You know those guys, orphan espresso? Do you know them personally? No, I just seen their products. Yeah, I really want one of the pharaohs, but the guy, they just don't care. They make them when they come in and they sell out in like 2 seconds. Yeah. Lido, too, you can get. But, um, anyway, so then, um, who was it, Joel Esposito, who has a really good grinder, wrote wrote in this comment, which I thought was interesting. Um, I am a coffee espresso, coffee slash espresso, uh,

[40:59] enthusiast and just wanted to comment on the hand grinders mentioned in the last show. At the office, I grind my morning cup in a Mount Konig, EK 43 with 98 millimeter burrs, one

[41:08] and three-quarter horsepower motor and photos attached. So that happens to be a very large, but a flat bird grinder. And it's super popular over the past couple of years, it was not designed necessarily to be a coffee grinder, but

[41:22] since, I think about like 2013 or something. There's been like a cadre of people that have been using it for coffee. And, um, the interesting thing about it is, um, Um, you know, for those of you that don't know or think about grinders, right? So every grinder, a lot of people, like, they split it

[41:40] into, well, is it flat or is it conical, but, you know, really even within those, within those categories, every grinder has its own kind of grind profile, right?

[41:48] And so like the people who really care about this, what they do is, is they take the grinds out of a coffee grinder, they're any kind of grinder. then they plot particle size, uh, the frequency, the distribution of particle sizes. And for most as good espresso grinders, you get what's called a bimodal plot, where you get some, you know, a large peak that's centered in the kind of general range where you want your coffee particles to

[42:12] be, and then you get another peak lower in what's called the fines, and you get these kind of fine particles. And, um, so there's a lot of debate is what the kind of ultimate, uh, grind profile is. But the truth also is, is that any grinder, the more you tune it down to be finer, right, the more bimodal the plot becomes because you get more fines out of something when

[42:32] you when you tune it down. So then there's a lot of questions, then you can just go on the internet and look up particle distributions for different coffee, then you can see it. But this, uh, the EK 43 is renowned for making of like a good kind of grind ratio that can work with a lot of different kinds of

[42:45] coffee, etc. more even, isn't it? That's what they say. Yeah, there's fewer particles. There are fewer finds. I think, I got to go back and look at the thing. But you got to remember also, I mean, think about what a fine is doing. So the fines are doing 2 separate things, right? A fine is A, then extract faster because it's fine, right? And B, in, um, things like, uh, espresso, uh, fines migrate to the bottom of the puck and like cause higher hydraulic pressures so that, you know, you need a, you would need a coarser overall thing to make up for the fact

[43:18] you have these fines because the fines are packing in between and closing, or in a filter they can clog up filters, right? And so they can they can change your flow rate as well as infuse differently. So, I mean, there's multimodal what's going on, again, multimodal with what's going on with. Anyway. So that's just a little uh, little preamble to Joel's uh, comment here. So here's what he said, which I think is really interesting. Oh, let me get to it. Okay, at the office, I grind my morning cup in a Malconic EK 43. At home, I grind in a small Hario hand grinder, very small burrs. That's the little, which, by the way, I have it, but I just hate grinding it because it just takes so damn long. I know, this is how I time, like, heating up my water. He's like, I try to beat it with the grinder. Actually, I have a burgrinder now, but... And I sit there and like, you know how you get angry when you're turning that knob and

[44:12] you push it too hard and the beans fly out of the hob. And then the knob comes off and then the threads get stripped. I'm familiar with all of those things. Yeah, it's nice. It works. Yeah, yeah. anyway. Uh, so they uh, the hand grinder, very small birds. The former is a beast powering through a cup's worth of coffee before I can hit the off button. must be nice. The particle size distribution is incredibly even. And the 1st cup I ground in it had practically no finds. I think he's talking about the Malconing again here. Okay? However, after breaking in the Malconi, I've noticed a market increase in fines production, which seems to not only create muddy flavors in the cup, but somehow simultaneously masks the wonderful volatiles that I paid

[44:53] hard-earned money for in single origin coffees at the local indie shop. It's not a huge issue for single cup pourovers, but when you're brewing 2 to 4 cups, 6 ounces

[45:02] each, the pesky fines impede the flow of water and slow the extraction rate. Makes sense, right? I've done side by sides, actually back to back, seeing as I can only prepare one cup at a time of the

[45:14] Hario unsaved versus, oh, and then he didn't mention this, but he bought a Humble, which is a manufacturer, a 500 micron sieve. And so he's sitting there. Somehow this got confused in the in the in the email thing. But what he did was, is he took his heart, his hand grinder and put it through a sieve to get rid of the fines. There's a guy in Madison who does that. Professionally? Well, he like he works at shops and stuff and he'll like sieve the coffee. What a bitch, huh? Anyway. I mean, I love it. I appreciate it. Anyway, so, um, so he did, he did side by side of the Hario, unsaved versus passed through the 500 micron sieve to eliminate the fines, not only does the flow rate improve, which we would expect,

[45:57] uh, but he gets the same quality that he gets out of the 98 millimeter, um, flat burrs on the um, Malconi. He says it's equal cup quality. That was like a $3000 grinder? Yeah, somewhere in there. So it's always... for like 100 bucks or like, I mean, the sieve would be like 15 bucks a create. Yeah, like 30 maybe? Yeah. Like if you buy it pre-made, it's like 30 bucks. Yeah. So this is what he's saying. Oh, by the way, he says he doesn't waste the fines. He simply adds up, and he said, actually, he says it's as good as the Malconi was before, like when it was brand new before it started creating the fines. So it goes back to where back to where it once belonged. So he said he doesn't waste the fines. I simply add them back to the rest of my coffee during the final phase of extraction or running through my Godgia classic, which surprisingly produced a drinkable shot of espresso. This method still is a wider range of particle sizes, but all that matters to me is the perceived end result. Knowing that I mail, because, remember, there's larger ones in there that you wouldn't get in the Malconic, like bigger ones. So therefore, he says, knowing that I may have failed to extract a few parts per 1000000 of solids from a couple of larger coffee chunks doesn't bother

[46:57] me. The bottom line is the $35 Hario plus a sieve, produce a cup comparable to a 2K plus grinder. We used to use the Hario's to grind pepper for our salami company, and we would take drills, take the top

[47:11] off and just like grind the pepper through it. It was great. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know whether I've seen a lot of drill mods. You know, as someone asked, my whirly pop for my roaster, I put a motor mod on that. I had someone asked me to post it. going to probably go to home barista and I'll post it on something like that because I have like a, you know, an STL

[47:31] file type. But, uh, do a lot of people put drills onto the Arios or no? I'd never, I was just like grinding pepper one day. I have the Lido The Lido 2 grinds. I mean, it's a slower than, you know, my, you know,

[47:46] ranchilio, but it's a lot faster than the Haria. Yeah. Yeah. We um, we also use the drill for cavatelli makers. Yeah? Oh, the book yeah. Yeah, you just put a drill on the back, just whip through it. Another note on the Hario, by the way, is that, uh, so there's a big, um, there's a big thing I'm

[48:08] gonna do, right? And they're going to kick us off. a big thing I'm a do with whether or not your burr should be suspended on both sides, like anchored on both sides,

[48:17] right? When you're doing a burn, a grinder. Uh, and so a lot of the people that have done kind of mods do one side mount only.

[48:25] The guys that orphan espresso, um, they're a believer in firmly mounting the burrs, right? And, you know, that's, I guess, one of the reasons they say that they get like good distribution on their stuff. I think it moves. Moves up and down, but not left and right. Right? Oh, the Hario, you mean? Yeah, the Hario moves around. Yeah, if you mount it on the bottom, that would be great. Well, he sells, that's why the orphan espresso sells for 14 bucks, a plate that you can bolt into the bottom of your Hario that pins it on both

[48:57] sides that you then adjust and tack it down for 14 bucks, and he's what he says in the in the thing, in his explanation of it, is that, well, if you do this, it will no longer be good for espresso, but it's good for coarser coffee.

[49:11] I want to go back to the sieve. Why can't you just create a wider sieve to let the grinds go through that you want? And then a thinner one. And so then their middle packet, you get, you know, completely consistent. Okay, totally could. Yeah, I mean, it seems like you totally could, but you could choose exactly the range you want to pass. You get. I mean, if you're a real, like, nutweed about it, you could just have it, like, you could get small one and put it in one of those little, you know, those little, and

[49:40] then, like, just grind into the, and just pull the middle guy out. Like put a little, you know. And then you can make like another extraction with the fines and the large and, you know, compare it. But I don't know. The people say that that some difference in grind size is good for flavor. It gets a little too flat at the same extraction. I don't know. Well, yeah, I mean, look, they're going to extract differently with brewing kinetics, right? It's all about the kinetics of it. It's going to change. But I guarantee you you could sell someone. If you had like mega course, and then like the fines, and then like the inbetweeners, you could definitely, like, especially if you did different brewing styles for each one of those 3 things, you could be like, well,

[50:19] you should just do this as an attachment to the seers all. You say some of them. You got a minisimmer? I need to become an expert in kind of pourovers because I don't know, you know, I'm not. Well, we, but that would be, it would be interesting thing, right? Like, take the same exact bean, grind grind them at the same time, produce 3 entirely different cups of coffee with them. Yeah, with a you know, $40 hand grinder. Yeah, and a little... Well, you know, I modify modifying my Lido, too, which is your friend espresso, small hand grinder, to be stationary. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, so see, because I hate unscrewing the glass, because every time I unscrew the glass jar from it. So it's got a glass jar, just like a Hario does, but it's very easy to screw up your grind when you unscrew it. And I always break the jars. Really? I'm not going to use a jar anymore. Yes. when you get rid of it. It's all plastic now with a little cup. That's what I that's what I'm doing. Uh, okay. So, there, there's some, we're not gonna, we don't have time. I got some good comments back, especially with like a liquid intelligence, the

[51:18] book with someone who's got a method to fake the Thai basil daiquiri if you don't have access to Thai basil, which is kind of cool. But we'll have to get to that. like, do they not have like an Asian grocery store? Yeah, they went to somebody's house or something like this. Yeah, okay. This has come up before for me before. Um, but, but actually, I want to mention these 2 Amazon, I have 2 favorite Amazon reviews that just came on.

[51:39] I got a 3 star and a one star, right? Recently. The one star, I think, is... The 3 star, I think, is worse than the one star. They're they're both pretty bad. But why don't you... For the one star is a great book for a chemist. For the layman mixologist, it is too much useless information. But that's one star? That's one star. Well, well, well, well, it requires chem, a large degree. Which is not true, dude. Let me tell you what, one star is, I've given you incorrect information. This useless person could just open up to the one like

[52:13] 4 page section where I just put like 50 classic cocktails in with like how to make them

[52:19] and their specs and easy to look at format, rip it out and throw the rest of the book away and it's worth more than one freaking star. But also, why, why is that a criticism? Like, why would you buy this book? You know, if you want like just easy cocktails? Like, you know, like, it's like this book is for a specific audience, you know? If you were just to do, oh, here's 50 classics. Who cares? Yeah, that book's been rid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyways, that's it. That person, they need, they need to get crushed. You know what I mean? But here's the other one. The 3 star was, this was a gift. I think it was liked, but I can't read it since it was not for me. It was a gift. Three stars. If you can't rate it, you can't rate it. Don't rate it. So was the person giving it as a gift? Yeah. They gave it as a gift to someone else that they reviewed it negatively. They gave it 3 stars. I don't really know whether it was good or bad. I think the person I gave it to liked it, but I can't really rate it. So I'll just rate it in the middle because I don't know. It could be, you know, like... What does that have to do with it? A one star review should be that the the author is like either grossly inaccurate or if the book is horribly written or they suggest something

[53:30] abhorrent, like chumming babies. You know what I mean? And like, anything else, you're just a jerk. You know what I mean? People, people. I flagged. We sold a lot of your books at our butcher shop because people just buy stuff during the holidays. Oh nice. So I was a little worried. People are just like, we're just going to buy what's every here. We have like 2 books there. And like, they're like, okay, well, let's be good. So a lot of people are like, hopefully there's a lot of people out there searching for their own home

[53:55] centrifuge systems now. Well, remember, like in the book, I say, like, I don't expect you to buy any of this crap. You know what I mean? But I'll give you ways around it, but why not tell you how we do it? Why not tell you how we do it? All right, so we're not going to get to Alex and Toronto's question, nor are we going to get to

[54:10] Louis Frederic Michel. Hope I got your name right. He said good luck with pronouncing that one. But the thing is, I would do an America style. It'd be like Louis Frederick Michaud. right? That how you do it in America. Michu probably is how it's supposed to be pronounced. But on the way out, Jack, you're going to have to chime in on this one. And Johnny, you chime into Dave, Nastasia, and Jack's favorite bands and Johnny's favorite bands. And PS, can we get Dade to do his Sir Mix-A-Lot style? I like big burrs and I cannot lie. And I won't. I won't. Why not? But you won't do that. Or you won't lie. Oh, well, those other brothers can't tonight. You've done it before. come on. I've never done big buts, have I? I love big birds. Really? Do it. Now, if I've already done it, we'll have to search the thing. So what do you got, Jack? What's your current favorite? What do you listen to? I answered him. This was my list. You can make fun of me if you'd like. So it was Radiohead, Bjork, Outcast, Apex Twin, The Flaming Lips. Oh yeah? That's my list. Well, Stas saw Bjork at a party. And you know what Stas' comment was? Dirty tennis shoes. Yeah. She said, the lady is so rich. What's she doing with dirty tennis shoes? I't like... D tennis shoes? I'm wearing the dirtiest tennis shoes right now. No, you're not New York. Yeah, you're not, it's true. You're I did get on the train today and I saw someone's white shoes and these are like 3 weeks old and they're white and now they're great. I was like, 0 my goodness. I like the phenomenon of people that wear only white and they get filthy, like filthy white. That's like Kareem Rashid, the famous designer's got the filthy white going, which is kind of sweet. At least it used to. Okay, what do you got, Johnny? What do you got for us? Sonic Youth. Yeah? Yeah. Like old school sonic. Old school sonic, youth. I like that. Nice. All right. Stas, what do you got? I don't know. Come on, his name's from crappy like. Or who do you hate the most? Who you love to hate? Yeah, Nastasia's hate list, thank you. No, when I was working out yesterday, I was listening to the Croce. Oh, Jim Croce? Dean, Dean, Dean. Like, Stas likes any anyone who crashes an airplane in the south, smashes. Is that true? No? Like that little girl in Kentucky or whatever? Oh, man, the one that crawled there? was crazy. We talked about it on the show for some reason. Anyway, what do I like? Stas does like the crochee. So for those of you that don't know, like Stas and I have a couple of like internal running jokes that we do that we don't do on the

[56:21] air. So Jim Croce was well-known. One of his famous songs was yeah, operator, right? And then he's like talking to this operator, and he's like, like chewing this freaking operator's ear off. So Stas and I are joking about like, the hell is wrong with you? The operator doesn't give a crap. you know what I mean? And then like he at the end is like, you can keep the dime. Well, of course she freaking can. She's trying to, it's a phone company. Well, yeah, whatever. Right. not even hers. But the other one that we always do is the, what's that song called? I know it's, oh, I just had to say, I love you in a song, where it's like, calls up this lady. And he's like, I know it's kind of late. I hope I didn't wake him. he keeps on freaking talking and talking. It's like 3 AM in the freaking morning. He keeps on talking and talking. Stas and I are like, the phone rings at 3 a.m. and you're like, who died?

[57:05] Who died? And he's like, I know it's kind of late. And you're like, what the hell? Anytime, like, he called us, he'd be like, eh, that would be all we got. Anyway, I'll talk about my favorite bands next time. I like so many different kinds of bands. Give them one. Yeah. Yeah. For country, I like Merle Haggard. perfect. All right? cooking issues.

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