[0:00] Today's show was brought to you by molecular recipes.com, the world's number one source for molecular gastronomy recipes, techniques,

[0:07] ingredients, and tools. Hi, this is Celia Kutcher, host of Animal Instinct, and you are listening to Heritage Radio Network, broadcasting live from Bushwick, Brooklyn. If you like this program, visit HeritageRadioNetwork.org for 1000s more. Cooking is too...

[0:52] Calling your questions, too! Cooking issues. Hello and welcome to Cooking Entries. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking issues coming to you live. What is that? What is that? I like it, though. What is that? Ah. Ah, yay. Cheese, cheese. cheese. That's a nice cheese name. It's a good cheese song, right? Yeah, is that is that yours? Whose is that? No, it's this, we do cutting the curd and every once a month we do a book review with Diane Stemple, and that's her theme song that her friend made for

[1:31] her. Yeah, let's hear a little bit more cheese. That was it, but we can we can start it from the beginning. Yeah, let's go from the beginning. Jeez. Jeez. Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. It's very, like, it's very, like, early 80s, like, you know... Well, it's but like that early 80s, like the cheese is like never like on the same beat. It's never on the one. It's never, you know, it's just cheese. It's cheese. You know what I mean? Cheese. Jeez. Call your questions, 2718-497-2128. 718-497-2128 coming to you on the Heritage Radio Network and Roberta's Pizzeria in Brushwick. Brooklyn right? Joined as usual in the studio with the Stasi Hammer Lopez in the engineering booth with Jack Ainsley and Wide. How you guys doing? We are good Yeah, and we got we got a special guest in the uh, in the radio, uh, in the radio studio today and introduce your, Oh, getting a little buzz there on the phones, Jack. Why don't you introduce yourself and tell us what you do? Sure, I'm Corey from Little Bird Chocolates, and we make

[2:39] fire bites, which are chocolate cupboard candied jalapenos. Nice. And they're a supporter of the museum. They gave, they had their stuff in the gift bag at our, what's it called? What's that thing called? Puffing gum? No, no, no. It wasn't a puffing gun. It was the it was our main event. It's the main benefit that we do every year. That thing's coming up when in May? Oh, no. What is it, May? don't know. I don't know. I think it's in May. I not sure though. You'll be hearing about it. Peter, Peter, I think he's coming. Today? Again, yes. Yeah. Well, Peter came from the Museum of Food and Drink will come on and we'll talk about that. So why don't you explain what you got here. Sure. So we have our most popular trade is a dark chocolate covered fire bikes, candied jalapeno covered in dark chocolate with just a touch of sea salt. We do them in dark chocolate, milk chocolate, white chocolate, and then we have

[3:25] fire bark, where we take jalapenos, we grind them down, add it to the chocolate, with touches sea salt. So it's just a little consistency different and the heat hits you differently on that one. Yeah, let's go dark. I mean, let's break open the dark. Right, stars? Does the milk soften it a little bit or no, within the milk or no? You would think, but it actually, I think the most

[3:48] popular or the spiciest is actually the white chocolate, which is sort of counterintuitive, you'd think it's just

[3:55] sweet, and the cocoa butter sort of coats your tongue and doesn't let the heat go.

[4:00] Right, that doesn't let the heat go. Write that down. That's a is that an album or a song? Doesn't let the heat go? Sounds like more of a song. Well, the last band name the stars and I had that we were going to, it's kicking in now. The last band name the Stas and I were going to do was secretly awesome. Remember that? What was the album we're going to have on that? Oh, um, Mother's 2nd. What? It was like Mother's 2nd family or something. A 2nd family. 2nd family. 2nd family. Second family by secretly awesome. That was our. yeah, yeah. That, you know, what was the band name? What was the song we just came up with, though? We just had a song name like 3 minutes ago. Oh my god, someday we'll write this down. I got a song name. What do you got? Call her on line one. Ooh. All right, let me try some white chocolate while I listen to the question from collar one. Call her, call her. on the air. Hey, how are you guys doing? It's Antoine from Bocler, Florida. How you doing? How's the weather down there in Florida? It's actually better than what you guys are right now. Well it wouldn't be hard. Yeah, at least we're not in Boston, huh? Boom, boom, Boston. Take that. Like, what are they, like, 18 feet of snow or some crazy thing over there? Crazy. All right. So what do you got for us? This is a few times where Bo is actually nice. We're showing you. Nice, nice. So what do you got for us? Yeah, I have 2 questions. My 1st one's a little simpler. I'm doing essential oils inside of water. I wanted to make a citrus water. The only problem is that the oil is always separate. And so I was gonna use either poly sorbet, to help find a way to emulsify it, but I have to be

[5:29] water. Uh, or, uh, I was going to perhaps freeze it, and then have the oil separate the top. I just want to know if you had any recommendations for that one and add another question. Wait, what's the final application? What's going on? Uh, I just want to make um, carbonated uh, citrus water, essentially. Oh, yeah. with essential oils, but the essential oil always rises to the

[5:58] top and separates. Yeah, so what you need is gum Arabic. Yeah. It doesn't have to be shelf stable, right? Just has to be stable for a little bit of time. Uh, you know, a few days or so. Hmm. Okay. So gum Arabic is what people typically use for this, when you're doing citrus oils, everyone used to use what's called

[6:21] brominated vegetable oil. And what it is, is it's an oil that you mix with the, uh, with the, um, no one, people don't use it anymore, but

[6:30] it's, you mix it with the citrus oils and it averages the density out because the brominated oil is heavier than water and the citrus oil is lighter than

[6:38] water. And when you add them together, they try to get the density relatively similar to the finished beverage.

[6:43] In this way, when you add like the their emulsifier, and the reason they use Arabic is because, A,

[6:51] it, it, it, you know, is a decent emulsifier, it also doesn't increase the viscosity very much, and it also dilutes quite well, which means that it doesn't mess up carbonated beverages.

[7:00] Um, so, you know, you would use like Arabic and a brominated vegetable, they have a, um, they have a replacement now for brominated vegetable oil because, uh, I don't know whether it's actually bad for you or

[7:13] there's theoretically bad for you. I don't know. I don't know. Um, But by the way, I've just, like, rounded into a nice, like, the

[7:20] comelo, like, constant heat in the back of my mouth due to the jalapeno. Anyway, so, um, so you could try in Arabic, like, uh, you know,

[7:27] there, the problem with the stuff that I use typically for emulsifying is it has like a bodying agent in it, like

[7:33] Xanthan, and that's going to be a nightmare when you carbonate, complete nightmare. So you could try Arabic. Um, I had just recently looked up um, what to use in place of uh, brominated vegetable oil, but I forget, I forget what it, what it was. But, you know, Arabic by itself should be able to keep it for at least a little while, and then you might have to, might have to shake it back together. But you might want to, might want to give that a, give that a shot. What did you do? What about the application of poly sorbet? Uh, like the regular, like, like 80 or 60? I don't really know, like, um, I've never really used that stuff in, uh, in a in a beverage application. I don't know. Like, what, what, what would be the, um, why would you use that instead of like an Arabic or something? I don't know. That's just initially what I was thinking. I just wanted to emulsify it. I didn't want to have any taste. Right, have you? Yeah, well, remember, like, you know, you want to get like a, you know, a fairly, you know, a

[8:32] nice clean Arabic, not like, you know, the ones in rocks, get the powdered stuff that's meant for food grade. That stuff is good. But did you, did someone else like uh, somewhere publish a recipe using uh, one of the uh, poly

[8:44] sorbets, like 60 or 80 in this kind of an application? Because I wouldn't like jump at something like that right away for this app. No, I, I, uh, I was just doing my own research and that was something that I kind of fell

[8:56] on to. Yeah, I would check out Arabic, like Arabic is the classic, like, soda system. It's like really clean in terms of people that don't have bad feelings about it except for, you know, the possibility that if you're sourcing it improperly, you're supporting terror, but, you know,

[9:10] as an actual product, they don't have bad feelings about it. And I think, I think the whole, I think the terror Arabic might be over. Like, I think the gum acacia, like, you know, source from murderers might be a thing of like more like 10 years

[9:23] ago as opposed to now, although I'm saying that, and I don't know. But my feeling is that I haven't had anyone call me a supporter of murder recently for using

[9:33] gum Arabic. But, you know, it probably merits more research. But I would look at that 1st and see what's happening. And then I would look up on the internet. brominated vegetable oil or BVOs. I would look up BVO replacements, and all the big folks like Pepsi and Coke, and those guys are shifting away from using BVOs, and classically, they would be found in things like in cloudy carbonated drinks.

[10:03] So, Sunkist or Mountain Dew, you know, which is kind of, you know, when Moses came

[10:10] down. One of the things that, you know, he brought was Mountain Dew. That stuff is, you know, we've had actually a lot of Mountain Dew questions on

[10:16] this, on the air, like Mountain Dew. Do you like Mountain Dew Jack? Sorry, late to the mic here. You know, I did when I was like in junior high maybe. Junior high. Yeah, you were caffeine pushing early, my friend. Early, yeah. God, I don't think I've had a Mountain Dew in probably over a decade. I'm pretty sure that I would not have made it through college without Diet Mountain Dew. I case after case. Every spring, I used to drive from Connecticut to Sarasota, like and I wouldn't stop. So that's about 24 hours, you know, with a 20 year old drive. It's about 24 hours. And, uh, it was just, uh, like, you know, a bunch of boxes of pretzels, cases of diet

[10:57] due, and easy cheese. And that's what got you down. And, and like you leveled yourself out. Strangely, prunes also in the car. Now you'd think that this would be a mistake. You'd think this would be a mistake, but with the sitting, with the sitting and all of the pretzels and easy cheese, you're so clogged up to even feel regular, the prunes actually help level you

[11:16] out. It's kind of like, you know, a multi-system. So that would be the thing. We would just load the back of the car up with the diet cases of diet due, and that was it. Just go, go. You know what I mean? Yeah, good times. Good times. All right, what was your 2nd question? But I got to hurry because I got a 1000000000 questions from last week that they're going to kill me if I don't get to. Sure. No problem. So I have a friend that's really into the whole bone box right now. I'm not really into it all. The whole what? The phone broth? Oh, mean, okay. Go ahead. Um, and she just wants to make like a beef one and I'm, I'm kind of bored with it, but what I wanted to do was add a frost to it, so I could make it somewhat like a

[11:56] cappuccino, so she has them in the morning. So the only stipulation is that it has to be beast gelatin,

[12:03] and then I don't know what percentage of gelatin, fat, and liquid to put in there to make a sort of broth for the cappuccino on

[12:12] that. Wait, so a cappuccino textured froth. Yes. Right, with like an emulsified, cloudy broth situation. Huh. So, hmm. Well, let me think here. So how would I do that? Huh. Thinking, I was thinking of perhaps making the broth independently and then getting an ISI, um, and filling it with some percentage of fat,

[12:48] gelatin, and then maybe some of the stock, and then putting that froth on there. Yeah, I mean, that'll definitely, definitely work, or you could, you know, you could make a fluid gel out of the stock, uh, like, you know, and then, uh, just, you know, add

[13:02] hot, some, uh, like emulsified fat and spray to spray the thing out and it'll stay forever, you know, basically. Uh, you know, if you do like a geland fluid gel, it'll just stay and stay and stay.

[13:15] Uh, or you could, um, uh, whip it. But I'm trying to remember like what I would do to... I mean, you could, you don't have a, like a homogenizer. We can't make like a cream out of it. Um, yeah, I mean, like any, like any one of those tactics would work. I mean, I would just go. I'm sure like, I'm sure, you know, Kaimos has ripped somebody's recipe for like, uh, foam, you know, some sort of like beef, fat foam, uh, and

[13:40] and then used it. Or, you know, you could just do, you could make a really hyper, if it has to be beef fat, that's one thing, but like the easiest thing would just be to go with butter fat, like use a

[13:51] cream and then do reinforce a cream with a very, very concentrated beef stock. Um, super concentrated beef stock, reinforced cream. And if you get the temperature of that right. The problem is, is if you heat any of those things, you're going to break them down. So, I mean, I'm assuming if you want like a cold foam, if you want a hot foam, I would definitely move to something more that would

[14:12] stabilize with something that's not going to melt out when it gets hot, right? So you're not going to do a hot foam with cream base, you're not going to do a hot foam with a beef fat

[14:19] base, unless it's stabilized with something that's, you know, you're not going to use the beef fat as a

[14:23] stabilizer is what I'm trying to say at a hot temperature. And you're talking hot, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I think you're definitely going to want to go to something like a fluid gel or because you want something denser, right? You don't want it like that light, that light, airy, like, uh, that

[14:39] light airy kind of, like, less thinny stuff, right? You want more of a hardcore. Yeah, I want like a frost pretty much, like something that will sit on it for a while and then, you know, perhaps dissipate in the way that a cappuccino eventually does.

[14:52] Yeah. So you, you know, I would use, I would, I would use, you can add a lot of gelatin as a, as a bodying agent and

[14:58] then like take a hardcore, uh, like fluid gel and put it in as a stabilizer, just get the flavor where you want

[15:04] it. You could probably add the melted beef fat to it and whisk it together. It probably stay and then foam up. it'll probably last I would guess. But like having not actually done that application myself because, as you know, I've stayed away from foam toppings in general in my own practice, just, you know, other than when I teach hydrocolloid classes, but, you know, that was years ago because, uh, it's just, you know, I

[15:26] stay, I stay away from it just because, um, you know, I've, I've had so many dealings with it. But that should work. Okay, cool. And about what percentage would you use to gel in? Oh, well, if you're going to use gelam. You might get a weird reaction. Actually, you know you won't. Gel and gelatin work great together. That's how Wiley's deep fried mayonnaise and works. I mean, you don't need a lot of, you know, you can get a really, really, it depends on how stiff you want your fluid gel and how much you're going to add

[15:55] liquid back to it. So if you're going to add a lot of liquid back to it, so you need a relatively stiff fluid gel, then you're going to go high. And by high, I mean, like half a percent, which is really high. Um, You know, if it's going to be the whole thing is going to be a fluid gel on its own, then you could go down to like, you know, a quarter of a percent or something like this.

[16:13] But, uh, you know, go start high, start like at uh, at like a half a percent or if you're going to add a lot of liquid to it, even higher, like, you know, eight tenths of a percent or something like that. And then when you dope it back, it'll be, um, also Agar will work nicely if it's not going to be too hot and then it's easier, but Agar might have some weird reactions with gel. Agar and gelatin, especially if the gelatin's really concentrated or breakdown, can have weird reactions where you get little like grittiness to it, which is unpleasant.

[16:36] So then, you know, in that case, you want to use the gel M. Excellent. Thank you very much man. All right, good luck. Let us know how it works. All righty. So, Dave, I have one more caller that's been patiently waiting. Alright, alrighty. Here we go. Caller, you're on the air. Yeah, hey, man, this is Scott from Florida. I had a question. I'm curious about your opinions on any of the circulators under the $400 range.

[17:00] There's a ton of them out there now. Um, I just can't justify doing like the $800, you know, poly-science just because of, you know, $800. But, um, I, I'm not in the position to make my own, but there's a ton of

[17:15] a model that are like under 400 bucks. I even looked at like the newer poly-science ones that they label for home use. The problem is that some of them are under like 750 watts. So I don't even think that would be worth considering. Do you have an opinion on any of those? Well, what are the wantages of that? I mean, most of the, I mean, the old school poly size, right? is a 1000 watts of heating. Uh, right? That's right. Yeah, 1000 watts of heating. And which ones are under 750 watts? I think they've got a new one now that they're marketing like for home people. It's like a funky yellow color. I think it's creative series or discovery. I have no idea. One of those two, but it was like 750 watts, and every one of their other ones was a 1000 watts, like the Nomico was, you know, a 1000, so was the

[18:04] Anova, all that stuff for like home use, most of them were over a 1000 lots. So, well, well, you got to remember, there's there's 2 ratings you have to look at. There's how many watts is the is the full unit? In other words, how much is it going to suck out of your wall? And then what's the actual wattage of the heating element? And it's the watt edge of the heating element? Because they're all basically the same heating style of elements. So like you're not going to get one that's drastically more efficient than another, so you don't really have to worry about it. You can pretty much match watts with watts. It's not like trying to compare, you know, an induction stove to a, you know, a, a resistive element stove where it's a

[18:39] range rather, where it's like, you know, you can't compare them. So, um, the, you know, a lower wattage unit is just going to start sucking wind when you start doing more products. So the question you have to ask yourself is if you know right now that you're never going to cook more than 30 eggs at a time, you know, then you can go with a lower

[18:58] wattage. If you know that you're never going to, uh, you know, cook, uh, a full

[19:05] Lexand's worth of stuff, yeah, maybe you can go with a lower wattage. I mean, for me, I, you know, I like having the full 1000 watts. In fact, like, you know, I often ask, I would often wish for more power because I usually push things to the edge of their envelope. Now, when it comes to, you know, spending the money, like the truth is, is that, you know, my, in a lot of ways, my favorite is still the old metal

[19:33] one, just because they're like, so they're so tough. And then my 2nd favorite is probably the, you know, the $800 plastic

[19:40] one, which has a lot of advantages like smaller in the bath space. I've used, um, I've used uh, 2 or 3 of the, um, of kind of

[19:48] the the newer style of ones, including uh, polysciences. I've used the Nomiku. have used the sand sair, and I've used the a nova. Which one do you have, Peter? Which one do you have? Circulator? Yeah. Oh, it's the one that was on Kickstarter. It's like half the Kickstarter. Anyway. They've all been on, yeah, yeah. Useless information. Peter came from the museum, just showed up with some useless information. Anyway, so I've used them all. And the good news is, is that they all pretty much hold the temperature. So they're all a valid way to start using these techniques at home. You know, the, where you, um, where you lose in some of the things is kind of like the the fit and finish. So for $200, it's very hard to make something that's going to be as robust as an $800

[20:35] one. You know what I mean? So it's just more apt to break apart. And some of the cheaper ones actually have like fairly nice interfaces, but sometimes they're a little more touchy or like parts will fall off of them while you're using them or they don't like pushing oil as opposed to water, you

[20:51] know? So, but these are all specialist kind of things. And so I would think that, you know, I would, you know, I would look at the specs on the lower, uh,

[20:57] lottage ones, I would get, like, a certain, an advantage. So a lower wattage one, if it's a smaller profile, actually might not be as much of a disadvantage because it takes up a lot less space in the container where you're circulating.

[21:10] So a lot of people don't think about, um, the fact that a larger circulator that takes up more space in the pot needs a fundamentally larger vessel to cook

[21:19] in, and so you need more power just to, because you're dealing with a larger bucket of

[21:23] water. Whereas if you can get away with a smaller bucket of water because you have a smaller profile thing, then maybe you don't need as much power. So these are all kind of things to look at. But in terms of the actual like PID algorithm, there are slight differences between different people's PID algorithms, but they all freaking pretty much work.

[21:42] You know what I'm saying?

[21:46] Yeah, all right. Well, let us know getting some fuzz on here, but let us know which one you've chosen, whether you like that. I like hearing feedback from people, you know, don't you, right? Yeah, they're supposed to we're supposed to have a newer one for the Nomi Cruz. Wi-Fi, but I don't really care about that, but it was like over

[22:02] 1200. You can for the eating element, so that was what I was looking at. All right, well, we're getting a lot. hard for me. I haven't seen the new Nomiku that is Wi-Fi, but like, you know, I'm considering, you know, turning my entire house to Wi-Fi so that when my router goes down, I can no longer turn on the lights. I'm actually petrified about this. You guys know about these light systems for your house? It's like you have these light systems, like Hugh, where you can like, I could like look at my house right now and be like, you know what? I want my dog to be bathed in a soothing purple light. And I could, like, make a soothing purple light, like, and look it on my phone and see whether my dog is on my phone. I see whether my dog's grooving. But what happens when you, when like you're, I have a problem with your router. Right? You gotta go manual, I guess, then. But, like, people are going switchless. Like they're not even having switch plates on the wall anymore. Because I had it in the last apartment I was in, but it's like if it wasn't working on the phone, you could just go turn it on. Well, so like some of the systems like are more just like augmented with phone and

[23:01] Wi-Fi and some of them are literally intended for you to turn your switches on and off on a regular basis with your

[23:07] phone because let's face it, like half the people you know are buried in their freaking phones all day

[23:11] anyway, so they might as well control their bowel movements from their phones. You know what I mean? Because that's how unseparated they are from it. But, uh, But, you know, like what happens if that goes down? It's like, you know, that's like, uh, you know, the story, I like to say that, uh, you know, when they came, the cable guys came right before, um, what was

[23:28] the hurricane that hosed at Sandy? When Sandy came through, like a week beforehand, they were like, we're giving you an internet phone. It's going to be better than your real honest to God wire phone. Nope. Because it's not redundant anymore. Like, you know, whatever. Whatever. I don't know. I'm considering buying these systems, but they just make me nervous because I'm an old geezer. What did you say? There's a new collar. I'll get, all right, all right. All right. Call her. on the air. Hey, I actually need to take the answer off the area because I'm, like, right in a meeting right now, actually, but I was wondering if you're familiar with the

[24:03] Mod Bar Porter module. Um, it heats water to like a really specific temperature. Is it similar to, uh, is it similar to like the, the heating system like on a clover, but just more in a pour over situation? Yeah, it's got it's got a boiler, um, and it just pumps from the boiler. It gets the water to a super specific temperature and then pumps out. I was looking for an alternate method to do that, but like not an Insta hot because what I've read is that Insta hots generally

[24:32] suck and they break in, they're awful. How many cups do you need to make it once and how much time are you willing to wait for the cup to happen? Um, well, I would like it to be on demand and an endless supply from a cold

[24:44] uh, line. don't want it to come from a hotline. I mean, so most of the problems with, um, so it's, look, temperature control is very similar, no matter what style of coffee you're making. It's very similar problems, right? So, uh, I mean, the only problem that you that you don't have is the problem of pressure regulation. And, you know, the other the only problem that you do have that I wouldn't have is if you want some sort of agitation while you're

[25:08] working. And if you want that to be, um, you know, or if you believe in like, you know, the super fancy swirl patterns and all this other stuff of how you add the liquids,

[25:16] right? But in terms of, in terms of control of the water itself, right? So I'm not talking about the delivery, but in terms of just the temperature of the water, like that, you know, you could do for not very much. You want to build one yourself? You want to build one yourself? Yeah, yeah, I want to do a DIY kit. And actually, I'll also listen to a podcast because I have to go, but thanks for that. Okay, cool. Yeah. So I'll just I'll just talk for a minute as though you were still on the air. So the, um, like this kind of temperature control is is fairly, fairly simple. So I'll just talk about it from in terms of how you would go about controlling something where I can picture it in my head exactly, which is, you know, the

[25:56] classic, uh, I know it's espresso, but the techniques are the same, right? is like the Silvia, right? So the Sylvia is the classic espresso machine that everybody mods out because, you know,

[26:07] it's it's, you know, it doesn't have a lot of parts. It doesn't have really electronics so much. It's like all like wired. It's very easy to break into and mess around with. It's all open. There's lots of space on the inside. Um, you know, and it works relatively well. It's high quality, right? So, um, the 1st thing you do is you want to, you want to take whatever source of large amount of water that you have and you're going to want to temperature control that, right? Bang. So um, that is very easy. You're just going to get, uh, you're probably going to get a, an, now, I'm assuming you don't want to do anything fancy. You're not going to move to microprocessor control. If you're going to move to microprocessor control, it's a whole different thing, I might use a different set of systems to do

[26:45] it, because depending on what microprocessor you use, you have to buy a lot of stuff if you want to, let's say, integrate thermocouples into

[26:51] it, because they have to go through a thermocouple amplifier before they go into your microprocessor, right? As opposed to some other systems where, which are a lot easier. You can buy sensors fundamentally that just plug directly into many microprocessor systems so that you don't have to do a lot of

[27:05] like interfacing or programming or anything like this. But, and there's 1000000000s of people online who have done coffee systems that are

[27:13] microprocessor based. I'm just gonna assume that you're not microprocessor right now. So you're just going to get a very simple PID controller from, you know, depends on how much you want to spend, you know, how kind of like, you know, nice or fancy they are, but you can get one for like 30 bucks now.

[27:27] Thermocouple, very cheap. And you're not dealing with high pressure, so it's not a problem. And you just want to control the temperature of the vessel where the water is stored, insulate the hell out of it,

[27:39] have the heater at the bottom. It'll form a convective thing of a crap so that you're not going to have a problem with having too much of a temperature gradation throughout the thing so long as you're not radiating too much heat out of the top.

[27:52] Now you're and you don't really need to get rid of a lot of heat to regulate your temperature because you're going to be pumping cold water into it when you're taking this stuff

[28:00] out. Now here's the deal. The larger the volume of water that you keep warm. The longer it will take, the longer it will take to get it warm at the beginning, but the less temperature fluctuation you

[28:12] have when you put water into it. Now you have 2 ways you can do this. You can take the hot water out, then pump water in,

[28:20] right? And if you do it that way, then you have to wait each time you're

[28:24] going to make the coffee for the temperature to get back to where it was, but you're not

[28:28] going to have a temperature drop during the pump out. The other solution is to take and put a, to wrap a heater around a pipe or to get an internal, like, you can get what's called a cartridge heater that is,

[28:41] like, they screws in like a pipe style or you can do it with a compression thing and actually put it in line with the liquid.

[28:46] So you'd have, you'd have a tea, you'd have, you have like 2 teas, the water would go through the tea, pass over the cartridge heater

[28:52] and in. Then you'd put a thermocouple on that, and you'd use bang bang, meaning on off. So what happens is you'd set it to whatever the temperature slightly above the temperature of what you want it to be is. And then it would just, you have a historesis in it, like a regular little thermostat. The idea here is you just want to get the water within about one or 2 degrees of

[29:11] what you're going to want to use. And so if you wanted to do that and get a 0 temperature drop, in espresso, you're looking at pulling, you need roughly 600 watts of power

[29:21] to, uh, because we're pulling like a couple of ounces in 30 seconds, let's say. And so like it's around 600 watts of power is what you need on the bang bang side of it to make sure that the water's not going to drop too much. Then the other thing is you might have to warm up your delivery mechanism. But usually these are done with very, very low wattage heaters. So in an espresso, you'd be heating the group, um, with

[29:45] a with a very low wattage heater, like on the order less than a 100 watts, you know, and that, you know, you'd also probably do PID. I dont know what you would heat in your system, but you might have some sort of mechanism that you need to

[29:56] heat and you're not going to want to design some complicated thermosiphon so that the boiler keeps it at exactly the temperature that you want.

[30:01] You're not going to do that. So, um, yeah. I mean, and then you're going to need the solo noise. I can talk more about it next time if you want, but is this making sense? Is it making sense about what you need to do? And I'm assuming that if anyone's going to do this project that you know what PID means. All right. So let me rip through some of these questions, because I haven't gotten any questions. Do I need to take a

[30:20] break, Jack? Today's break song is by Knife Show. Hey, what's up, guys? It's me, Jack, as in Jack, from cooking issues, as in the guy that's probably been talking on this show. So, here on the break to tell you about molecular recipes.com, which is not only an awesome website and store and resource, but

[30:37] also they support us, which makes them even that much cooler. So I know Dave gives you plenty and plenty of information on the show, but should you need further resource, should you want to get some of the things he's talking

[30:48] about, molecular recipes.com has recipes, techniques, ingredients, tools, all in the world of this

[30:55] modernist thing we love so much on the show. So, you know, explore the world of foams and spheres and invisible foods and mind blowing cocktails, all that awesome stuff. There's a community of over 400,000 chefs, scientists and food lovers sharing their favorite recipes, tips and tricks. Cool photos, tools, gadgets. Again, this is everything you'd be into, all in one place,

[31:18] molecular recipes.com, and just for being a listener of this show, you'll get 10% off any of their popular

[31:25] kits just by using the promo code heritage at checkout. That's promo code heritage. So again, check them out, molecular recipes.com, tons of really awesome stuff there. Definitely write up your alley. There's another caller waiting, but you can answer another question before her if you want. No, no, phone lines are off. But you know what? If you call in, I think you get precedence now. I think so too. one question. I call our caller, you're on the air. Oh, hi. How you doing? So I'm calling because I'm on a low fodmap diet, which basically limits a lot of different sugars that humans don't digest that well.

[32:02] In fact, there's some evidence that all these people are going crazy for gluten-free who think they do well on a gluten-free diet. It's not the protein that's bothering them in wheat. actually the carbohydrated. the sugar. So, I'm wondering, is there a way to get gluten, like pure gluten protein that I can add to breads and

[32:23] things, because I have no problem with the protein. I just have a problem with the sugar. Yeah, 100%. Vital wheat gluten. But I mean, remember, so like I used to buy that all the time. So back, you know, I like what I would do is, is I would buy whatever kind of flowers I wanted, you know, in terms

[32:38] of taste. And then I would just dope in gluten into it, uh,

[32:44] to, uh, up the protein content to the point where I would get the, the elasticity and texture that I wanted. So I used to do that, you know, all the time, but it's been it's been a long time, but I, you know, since I've, I used to, I used to bake bread, you know,

[32:58] every, every day basically. And so I had like a lot of this stuff lying around and I haven't for a long time. But yeah, I mean, I think most supermarkets might still carry it. cans of it on Amazon. The vital week. used to get it in a box. But yeah, you get the vital wheat gluten, and yeah, you can just go to town on that stuff. Now, remember, you don't want to overgluten your your stuff either, but yeah, it's yeah. And it works it works well. I've used it, used it many, many times. So if I do that and then I want to make an alkaline, like ramini noodle, it would work because the gluten would be there. Right. So yeah, you would increase the texture. You won't get the yellowness from the gluten because the yellowness comes from, um, colorless, uh, compounds in the flower itself

[33:42] that, yeah, that are then, that, that, that when they go alkaline, then they develop their characteristic, uh, yellow colors. So some people... So chewy as possible. Chewy as possible. Yellow not so much. Well, in other words, like, it's gonna turn yellow if those things are there. And if it's not, then it's not, but chewy, chewy is definitely possible. Now I've never tried to get... I mean, I'm sure that it's not like 100% like one for one because like all systems are complicated. So I don't know that I don't know that if you were to, let's say, take cornstarch and gluten the hell out of it, whether it's going to have the right texture or not. I just don't know. Uh, because there's there's other things going on, like the, like the, the, the structure of the starch itself, yada, yada, yada. But the, but, but the, yes, but the point is you can give it a shot. But if you want it to go yellow. In fact, I had someone tweet me this the other day, like, uh, people add, um, vitamin B 12,

[34:36] uh, B2, which rival flavin, uh, because, because I guess because it's yellow, but I don't know how much to add

[34:41] or, or, or whether or not that's a, that's a good idea. But in reality, the yellow is more of a consumer marker, it's not an actual... I mean, it's not an actual quality indicator other than then, and then

[34:55] the, then the flower, you know, um, one thing to note is that uh, on yellow alkaline noodles, there's 2 color components that are

[35:04] there. And that is the, um, the yellowness and also what's called brightness. And brightness has to do.

[35:12] There's browning that takes place, you know, kind of darkening that takes place. And it typically takes place in high protein flowers. So yellow alkaline noodles have some bite to them, but they're not necessarily done with super high gluten

[35:25] flour. The best color yellow alkaline noodles that don't have the darkening are typically done with kind of a medium strength of flour. So I wouldn't go, I wouldn't go, you know, Magilla gorilla on the on the gluten. I would just get it to where it would be kind of like a, like a, in an AP range of proteins, not like on the heavy bread

[35:43] side and but not down on the, on the pastry or cake side either. Okay, cool. I will definitely give it a try. And the sugars are all water soluble but not fat soluble. So one very quick follow-up question. What is the best way to infuse oils with mushrooms,

[36:01] garlic, and onions because I can't have any of them and I love them. Oh, well, um, I mean, I would just, I would just do like, uh, you know,

[36:13] a centrifuge. I would just, uh, I would just cut them really fine and just do like a old school. you like, you like heated alliums or raw alliums? I like both, but heated is fine. Yeah. So if you like it heated, I would just heat it with it and then strain it. You get a lot, a lot out of that, that flavor, like old school. Would you do it in a, would you do it in low temp water bath or would you just do it right on the, on

[36:34] the uh, stove, like saute? I mean, it depends on what flavor profile you want. So like the chemistry of aliums is extremely complex, right? So the flavors are going to be different. Let's say you were to crush or grind the garlic first, right? And then put it. The trouble is, is that you're going to have trouble filtering it out. Like you're going to have to use, don't use a coffee filter is going to take you forever. But if you use like, uh, if you use like a, uh, like a paper towel or something, you could probably get most of it out

[37:01] again, but crushing garlic or crushing onions and letting it sit for a minute before they get cooked out, it's going to give you a different flavor profile than if you slice them and do

[37:10] it, uh, or, you know, anything else. Mushrooms. Mushrooms. I've never made a mushroom oil. Hmm. Because all I can buy is truffle oil and that's like, yeah, flavor wise. I'd rather have, you know, almost like a portabella. But I mean, can you can you take a dried mushroom, soak it and then throw the water away and have the mushroom? Does the stuff go away or is it too intact in there? Like, can you leach enough of it out? Still too intact because it's the sugars that are inherent to the mushroom. Rub in other words, you can't leach it out of the mushroom and then eat the mushroom. Maybe it would get enough of it out of it. I mean, I don't I don't know. don't know how much it's going to mess. like, have you mess up your system, but I'm wondering, like, so if you take something that's dried, that has a little bit of rupture or, you know, a little bit of disruption in it anyway, you do the soaking and you take the broth, which is what I use, you know, like all the

[38:05] time. I mean, like it's give it to someone to make risotto, please don't throw it out, but then maybe the mushrooms that went afterwards when they're

[38:11] done. Maybe they've leached enough of their stuff out that they're okay for you. I don't know. I would ask. I don't know if there's a way to test it. I mean, the worst that happens, I get a upset stomach. It's not like I'm going to get hives or go in anaphylactic or something. Yeah, yeah, that's a really good idea to try. Yeah, so then, yeah, you can have the the porcinis after they've rehydrated and then somebody else can have the, you know, you can make a

[38:31] dive mushroom dashi with it or you can make a, you know, risotto, all of these things are delicious. Yeah, yeah. Sounds very cool. Thank you very much for the ideas. All right, thank you. And if anyone knows of making your own mushroom oil, tweet us in and let us know, let us know how it's done. I can't take it. He's gonna add the break. Okay, we're going to put that in later. Yeah. So we have like an 8 7 minute warning here. 7 minute seven. Wow, what a random warning, 7 minute warning. Jack's coming up with a new sport with a 7 minute warning. All right. Okay, we got 2 questions all about both on the same thing. So I'm going to do them both at once. At least I get 2 questions done. Ready? This is David from Pittsburgh wrote in, and also with a similar question, 80 from the UK. So we'll read them both and then answer them both, right? Okay. So we got Dave, I love the show. You guys should have a TV show. Yeah, right, right from, yeah, whatever. I don't, no one's, no one's going to give us a TV show, right? No one's gonna give us a TV show. Yeah, the interest, interest this. You know what? Whatever. time to talk about it. So much bad cooking TV out there. Probably true. There's a lot of TV. Most TV is bad. And period. Not just cooking TV. Most TV is bad. Most things are bad in the world. Most things in the world are low quality. You have a lot of questions. Okay, yeah. Okay. I am from Southwest Pennsylvania, and as you probably know, Scrappel is big in these parts. I do know that. I was wondering if you could talk about the high-end grapple you made reference to a couple episodes back. And also, if you could talk about the process of making different flavor dashis. I've been hearing a lot about bacon, Apple potato dashis to name a few. Thanks so much, Dave from Pittsburgh, and then 80 from the UK wrote in with a similar question. Just caught up with episode 194. Oh my god, what episode are we on now, Jack? have to check, man. Is this 200? No, no, no, no. It's close though. Okay. Can Dave please speak to and describe what his fancy version of Scrapple involved and also haggis? And when will the sears all with a new plate, with a new plated back screens be available? Thanks for the show and don't stop. Best 80 from the UK. Okay. 197, by the way. Ooh. All right, 80, Sears all should be in stock when? Next Monday. Next Monday, hopefully in stock, next Monday. And by the way, the steak decorators, they're shipping them in March. We're looking for a March ship date now because the manufacturer, I forced them to get certification of food grade for everything that they were doing in

[40:47] the in the steak decorator and it took them a while to get their food grade certification in. So I apologize, but steak decorator shipping in mid-March, right, Stas? Okay. Now, let's and then I'll answer the non-scrapple slash haggis related question that David had, if you could talk about the process of making different flavored dashis. So typically when someone says X, Y, or Z, like Dashi, and it's not really really Dashi, right? The way we think about it here, you take your kombu, which is the kelp, the seaweed, giant kelp, and you heat it. I prefer to heat it, not at boiling. Like a lot of people will just bring it up to the simmer and then let it go, let's sit for a while, pull it out. I prefer to keep it around 70 Celsius. I had to have a whole bunch of kombu tests that Nastasia hated, taste. You hated those kambu tests because we were just tasting kambu dashi without any bonito in it at all, right? So she hated it. But anyway, we did extensive testing on this. You can go look on the old cooking issues, saying if it hasn't been entirely taken over by Cielis. Uh, you know, some sort of Seattle salesperson from uh, from the former Soviet Union. But the, um, uh, so you take the combo, you do whatever you're going to do with it. And then, and that pretty much is invariant. Everybody does the combo. Then the question is, what are you going to add to it? So typically, if you are making standard Dashi, you take the Katsu Abushi, which is the, you know, the pieces of the bonito that have been like kind of like cooked, molded, dried, smoke cooked, molded, dry smoke, and they turn into these like boards, these, not boards, but they look like wood, they look like

[42:13] wood, and then you shave them into these delicious like bonito flakes, which, you know, are bonito flakes, and then you put them in and you still get, and it gets that awesome kind

[42:23] of proteiny cook. It's like all of the, it's amazing. I, you know, I, I love this stuff. But if you don't eat that, then you, um, then you could use mushrooms,

[42:33] we were talking about mushrooms before, that adds a lot because you're trying to add, you're trying to add, they had different parts to get the super umami out of it, right? Or, you know, Chang, Dave Chang, who started making bacon, what he called bacon dashi a long time

[42:44] ago, is like, well, you know, these fish are going to be fished out soon. So what if we use kind of pork products? What if, and he actually made pork, like katsuobushi things that are cured in a very similar way, or you could just use bacon because what you're really looking for is something meaty, savory, you know, sometimes smoky, depending how you're feeling about it,

[43:03] cured. Other, and then I've never, the Apple Dashi that I've seen is really just a Dashi that people have added Apple too. It's like, you know, dashi with apple in it. Um, not like Apple instead. I look for potato, and I think people probably just doing potato and dashi, although I did see somebody actually fermented a potato. Anytime you're going to make a dashi and you're starting with a combo thing, you want something else that has protein breakdown products in it, right? So think things like, uh, bonito flakes or like, uh, mushrooms or like, um, I guess even, you know,

[43:36] anything that people say are like big umami bombs, probably even like uh, cheese rinds. Parmesan cheese rinds would be good. things like that. So it's just looking to get that savory thing in a quick way. So, you know, like a classic Japanese Dashi stock, all the work is done beforehand. Uh, and then the dashi happens in, like, in a couple of minutes, whereas in a Western stock, you know, they do fundamentally no work

[43:57] beforehand, and then they spend hours on a stock, right? That's fundamentally a different way of looking at it. Now, to scrapple and haggis. and this is going to be our last thing because they're going to get rid of us. So, Scrapple is, for those of you that don't know is a cornmeal and

[44:10] buckwheat. A lot of people omit the buckwheat, mush that is made by taking whatever crap you have when you butchered the animal.

[44:18] So the pluck, which is like kind of the heart, the lungs, the liver, and then plus some bones and other odds and ends and like

[44:25] scraps. And you boil that to make a very richly flavored stock that has

[44:29] like usually if you add a lot of bony stuff, a lot of gelatin in it and whatnot. You pull all the meat out after it's soft and rendered and falling off the bone. You put all the meat, rip it off the bones, you put it through a grinder, and then you add, you add a mixture of cornmeal and

[44:46] buck wheat to the stock, and you stir it like you're making a polenta cook it, throw the meat back into it,

[44:52] right? Form it into blocks, right? And then you take those blocks, you chill them, you cut them into into slices, and then you fry them,

[45:01] right? And so now depending on whether you are, you know, a city kid like me, you either have it in the morning with maple syrup on

[45:08] it because I put maple syrup on every damn thing because that's who I am. But uh, or not. Like a lot of people are against the maple syrup, right? You what I'm saying? A lot people are against the maple syrup. I happen to like it, and I can do what I like. So now the question is, why don't people like this? Because people are stupid, right? So you have to move to a higher end version of it. You have to take away what people don't like about the Scrapple. And to make a higher end version, here's a couple. You can also make it taste more refined. So here are the things. People don't like liver in their scrapple, as it turns out. So what you want to do is like reduce the amount of liver that you have in it, sometimes down to none. And it might not be as official anymore, but you're going to get a lot more people pounding a lot more of it if it doesn't have a heavy liver flavor in the mush.

[45:49] That's just one suggestion. Another thing is, um, quick, quick. Okay, the way I do it, like to make a higher, higher. Also, I'm going to get killed by people from Pennsylvania, but if you go to a straight

[46:01] cornmeal and don't do the buckwheat, it won't taste traditional, but a lot more people who are used to loving Italian

[46:07] food are going to like it more, right? It's going to taste more even like regular southern food because it's not going to have another intrusive

[46:14] like kind of taste or texture to it. So go to straight corn meal to work people into it to go higher. Also, make a stock first, right? And then don't use that meat to add the meat to the thing. So add a flavorful meat, almost like whatever sausage base you want. Add that as your ground meat to the scrapple when it cooks out at the end, so it hasn't been cooked for a 1000000000 years like that. It's tenderized. and then make a stock and a pressure cooker beforehand with your scraps and bones so that you're separating the problem of the stock preparation from

[46:41] the meat that's going into it. So that makes it just a much kind of more refined. You can adjust the flavors more. You can get a nice texture out of everything. It's not like a big mess and you can cut it. Oh, and then next time we'll talk about the haggis, cooking issues. Thanks for listening to this program on HeritageRadioNetwork.org. You can find all of our archived programs on our website or as podcasts in the iTunes store by searching Heritage Radio Network. You can like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter at Heritage underscore radio. You can email us with questions anytime at info at heritageradionetwork.org. Heritage Radio Network is a 501c3 nonprofit. To donate and become a member, visit our website today. Thanks for listening.