[0:00] Today's show is brought to you by molecularecipes.com, the world's number one source for modernist recipes, techniques,

[0:06] ingredients, and tools. I'm Damon Bolte, host of the Speakeasy. You're listening to Heritage Radio Network, broadcasting live from Bushwood, Brooklyn. If you like this program, visit heritageradionetwork.org for 1000s more.

[0:31] Wow. I went through the whole spiel. Oh. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, a glass of wine. So nice. Prosecco? Bubbling, Stas, Nastasia the Hammer Lopez is not with me in the studio today. She is actually in Long Island on the day that we have bubbly

[0:57] here, Stas. Well, you can't believe it. You're missing the bubbly. I know. I asked for the bubbly for you. Oh, that's so sweet. That is I didn't pay for it. That is a true friend who, it's not the money. It's the fact that she wanted someone else to have it, even though she couldn't have it. That's the mark of a true Travis does. That is a true friend. All right, so I'm going to cheers the microphone here, right? That's the... sounds great. Yeah, right? Okay, now do it again. Clicking the microphone. Yeah, yeah. fancy. Congratulations. Did you tell anybody yet? No, no, just came on. By the way, this is cooking issues. I'm Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues. Coming to you live on the Heritage Radio Network from Roberta's Pizzeria

[1:39] in Bushwick, Brooklyn on the Heritage Radio Network. Roughly 1245 every Tuesday. a nice smooth intro. Yeah, well, I cut you off on the beginning because I was fumbling and getting the applause ready. Oh, nice. Nice. Well, you know, now that we've been nominated for, well, the radio show still has

[1:55] yet someday, someday. But someday. someday. So my book, Liquid Intelligence, nominated for James Beard, Award, along with the Sherry

[2:05] book and the Death and code book for, like, a beverage, uh, uh, writing, I guess, or beverage book. And I'm super happy. This is the 1st real award I've ever been nominated for, ever. Really? Isn't that weird? Not weird, but like, you know, ever. Look, when I was in school, I wasn't the kid that got awards. I was that kid who's like, you know, I didn't do poorly enough to get best improvement, you know,

[2:28] because I always did well, but I didn't do well enough to get any of the awards. Like, you know, I definitely didn't get that best citizenship award. Did you get that crap stuff? Styles got best personality in Go figure, huh? Yeah, right? Wow. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Me? You know what I was? I was that kid who, you know, on Valentine's Day when everyone buys the carnations for their buddies. You know, they buy like, you could buy... Oh, it's a white one. a friendship and a green one. I don't know what the green one is, whatever in the hell. And then the, you know, the red one is who I love you, all this other crap. Well, I was the one who got the secret admirer carnation at the end of the day because everyone had to get one. And so if nobody bought you one, they would just hand you one at the end of the day and be like,

[3:11] it's a secret admirer. And it's like, listen, I'm not an idiot. You know what I mean? Like, I get it. You know what I mean? It's like, I don't need to walk around with a flower in my hand, you know what I mean? It's like if you're going to wallow and it just wallow in it. It builds character. It's good stuff, you know? So I feel like my whole mojo is ruined by this nomination thing now that I've been nominated for something, I can't have the kind of like the, the, why I'm mojo

[3:34] anymore. You know what I mean? If you if you win, you should tell that story. I think a good story. Yeah, well, I'll tell you what. Uh, like, the thing is, is that, like, both the other books are fantastic, fantastic books. So whoever whoever wins, it's going to be, you know, it's it's good. I mean, obviously, I would, I would like to, I would like to win for the only thing that I've been nominated for. I mean, I would like to win, but, you know, I'm up against some stiff, some stiff competition there. Yeah, April 24th. So we'll see we'll see what happens. Yeah. So Stas, where are you today? Why don't you tell the people where you are? I'm going to Jackson Pollock's old house, um, to learn about what he used to make for dinner parties. Yeah, something like that. You mean the non-alcoholic stuff you used to make for the dinner party. Raging alcoholic Jackson Pollard. And mean, you said. Oh, just bad, bad guy. Like, from all accounts. I mean, look, I didn't meet the guy. The guy died, like, you know, way before I was born, but from all accounts, just a real jerk, just a real, there's a

[4:36] movie, actually. I think Ed Harris plays him. I never saw the movie, but I don't I don't know how true to life it is. But did you... I mean, whatever, whatever. But like how's the how's the food looking so far? But we're not there yet. So I said, yeah, yeah, we're not there yet. But supposedly we were going to get to like, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. We'll see. We'll see how it is Well, I know you're a hater of everything. So, like, there's nothing you hate more than a concept. I know, I know. I don't even know why I'm here. Well, it's fun. I mean, look, it's gonna be good. It's a shame that it's cold. Actually, so I can listen to that radio station. Yeah. Oh, well, yeah. Nastasia has a, um, It's obsession. Yeah, yeah, obsession. There's this, there's this like, no offense to it. I mean, look, I'm talking, but there's this tiny radio station in Long Island. And what is it you like about this radio station styles? It's so local. It's just so incredibly, like, community oriented and I, and I, it's like listening to a police blotter. Yeah, remember that one time we were listening to it and it's like they were describing the stuff that the cops took out of the pocket of the kid that they, you know, pulled over at the mall or

[5:45] whatever? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The guy's ham and cheese sandwich. Yeah, all kinds. yeah Yeah, yeah. And he had a ham and cheese sandwich in his pocket. So weird. So weird. Oh, and you have a lot of ketchup questions. Yeah, yeah, yes, yes. But I also, I can't leave without saying that when I spoke to Nastasia this morning after I heard about the nomination, she was like, you got nominated for best insulated food

[6:10] separator, because that's all Nastasia uses the liquid intelligence for. Yours, yeah, yeah. Yeah, my book. Yeah. So she's, she assumes that the other two, the other 2 are actual books, though, Nastasia, that have words in

[6:21] them that you can read. Whereas mine is simply something that keeps hot foods and cold foods separated. It's like, it's good. That's why I wrote so much. Yeah, it's perfect thickness. You know, if I had written anymore, it would have been too heavy. If I had written any less, it wouldn't have been as good an insulator, you know? Yeah, nice. Anyways, we might be joined later in the program by Peter Kim. Oh, yeah. So, do you guys like the more mellow intro? There's the more NPR style intro. It was very distinguished. Yeah? Yeah. I didn't hear the instrument. Well, you know, if we if we ever want to get nominated. We going to have to go more distinguished instead of like... Maybe that's what's scaring them away. You think? No. No. Ah, yeah. Anyway, culinary questions too. 718-497-2128. 718-497-2128. I'm trying to, anyway. But Nastasia, you actually hate all of the... I shouldn't say that. But you don't like, you don't like kind of mellows, like, stayed folks, right? No, that's why I don't listen to NPR. I just don't like the mouth noises that you can hear when people talk like in a mellow way. Yeah, I mean, yeah. I love NPR actually. I know Yeah, whatever. Hey, Dave, we're gonna have somebody come in and film you. Is that cool? Really? Yeah. Okay. You like how we could just ask that on the show? Yeah. Great. Awesome. I mean, whatever. It is their camera. It's for our Kickstarter video. It's pretty exciting We have a new website coming. Well, why don't you say something about that before I get into the, but quickly, because I got to get, I got to get something. Well we started on time. haven't even started yet. The video will tell you everything. Well, that's it. Here's the teaser. We have a new website coming and a Kickstarter campaign to fund that website. What are you going to do with the website? It's a new website, a completely new platform. I mean, are you selling Viagra? What are you doing? Oh no. It's for radio. Yeah, yeah. I know, but like you said, like some, you don't want to, you don't want to give anything away. It's going to be in the Kickstarter video. That's right. Yep. All right, fair. Are you running the Kickstarter, Jack? Not just me, you know, the whole team here, yeah. Oh, yeah. Hey, do we have a firm ship date, by the way? Speaking of Kickstarter on the steak decorators? No, we don't have that date yet. But they're done, right? They're done. They should be shipped out this week and they should be here, you know, in the next couple weeks at most. All right, cool. All right. We give you more info when we get it. Yes. And pretty soon we can talk about our next products pretty soon within... Yeah, but I'm not going to bring it up yet until I have it firm when I'm going to do it. But like within within a month or so, we should be announcing our next stuff. Once we get the steak decorators out and everybody's tapping with us and we don't have the hounds at our heels. Okay. Let me get to some questions, which is what we're actually here for instead of just chit chatting. BJD wrote in and listen, I apologize. Obviously, this was a corned beef question for St. Patrick's Day, and obviously St. Patrick's Day is over. Let me just say that corned beef is not just for St Patrick's Day. Do you like corned beef stars? Yes, they do. I think it's good. Wow. Wow, unusual? Yeah. good stuff. But do you like it? Do you like any form of it? Are you a sandwich corned beef person or more like a hash person? Uh, sandwich form with mustard. Oh yeah, mustard. Oh my god, mustard. You know, I can still remember when I was a kid. Very young. you know, like, we did touristy stuff, you know, because, you know, I lived in Jersey and, you know, what did we know? No offense. No offense. Uh, but, uh, so I remember we went to Carnegie deli. is a 1000000000 years ago, this has got to be in like, you know, late 70s, early 80s or something. And I got the Broadway Danny Rose, which I believe is corned beef and

[10:07] pastrami. Uh, and I asked for freaking mayonnaise and like the, even though I was a little kid, like the waiter almost punched me. It's crazy. You know what I mean? I mean I would never do that now. Never do that now. Mustard. Mustard. Are you more, wait, are you more of a pastrami person or corned beef person? I like corned beef better than pastrami. Jack? either way, but I'll go pastrami probably. Yeah, I think I go pastro. I like them both, but I would definitely, if, like, if, if you had to choose one thing to go with. I go with pastrami. You know what the worst thing in the world is? People who try to get the leanest pastrami possible. Just don't have the freaking pastrami. something else. Pastrami. I like love the fatty part of the pastrami with all the pepper and the mustard. Oh my god, rye bread. You like it on rye bread, stars? I don't like rye bread now. Okay. All right. Well, we'll have to discuss this. I'm not going to call you. I mean, I just did. I was going to say, I'm not going to call you out, but I just did. I just did. Okay. With the holidays upon us, St. Patrick's Day, which I missed, because I was flying back, people, from South by Southwest, where I was giving a talk with Peter

[11:18] came and Emma boast about the Museum of Food and Drink. Maybe he'll talk about it when he gets here, maybe not. I was literally there. We also did a really fun event for the museum at a place called

[11:29] Odd Duck in Austin. Fantastic Place. Everyone there was really, really nice food. Excellent, really awesome place. I recommend anyone in Austin. Go check it out. With a hug. Oh, by the way, oh, my God. I know I'm listen, I'm going to get to the questions, but I don't want to forget this because you know how I am. Johnny Hunter's birthday today. Hey. His birthday? Oh, nice. Johnny Hunter's birthday. I know how I know this. I just got a text. I thought it was from you, Stas. Someone sent me a text says it's Johnny Hunter's birthday. So there it is. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. And I believe, is he in the finalist list? I know he was nominated in the pre-nominations for the Beard Award. Is he in the finalist list? I hope so. I didn't see his name, but I didn't look that hard. Anyway, happy birthday. Finally, a question here. With the holidays upon us, I was wanting to hear Dave's suggestions on brining and circulating a brisket. I'm planning on going with the serious Eats recipe, but I'm always looking to improve. And then they link to Kenji's recipe for brisket

[12:31] with, you know, whatever, brisket, you know. So anyway, so here's the recipe. It is brisket trimmed with salt. Now, listen, any cures it for 8 days. It's salt, spices, you know, sugar, you know, peppercorns, all this mustard seeds, coriander, blah, blah, blah,

[12:49] allspice, clove, yada, yada, yada, right? Let's get to the nuts and bolts. First of all, uh, Kenji calls out, uh, and

[12:58] so I'm just going to comment on this particular recipe uh, that you're that you're dealing with and and and deal with it. First of all, on the salt. In the in the recipe, uh, it calls for 1st it gives a um, a grams and then an ounces and then a cup measurement, and then it says

[13:16] diamond crystal kosher salt. Now, I'm sure most of the listeners on this show will know that you cannot

[13:23] measure, so I'm sure it's just like the way they have to do it for the website. You can't measure salt by volume. Specifically, kosher salt is a freaking nightmare to measure by volume because diamond kosher salt, which is, by the way, the choice of everyone everywhere who has any sense, really, for general salting, is compared to Morton's kosher salt or any

[13:50] other, like, form of like regular, like iodized, like salt crystals is very fluffy, right? So, uh, if you were to use a, a cup

[14:01] of uh, diamond crystal kosher salt is, I don't remember exactly, but it's something like the equivalent Morton's kosher salt is like only like

[14:10] two-thirds of a cup. So it's wildly different. So you always want to weigh your, uh, you always want to weigh your salt. Now, the reason to use the reason everybody likes Diamond, who has used it. And I think it's available nationwide. I just have to search for it. The reason is, is because it's fluffy, it's easier to dose

[14:30] out, because you can put a healthier sprinkle on, and because you can put a healthier sprinkle on because it's less dense, you know, you have more margin for error when you're sprinkling the stuff

[14:39] in. It's easier to sift in your hand and dump on stuff, doesn't clump as much, blah, blah, blah. It's just superior shape, kosher salt for cooking, like, period. Like that's just all there is to it. So, um, if you're going to measure by volume, you must use diamond if you're going to follow his recipe. But, you know, like I said, I think most of the listeners of this show already know that. Then calls out for the cure, because remember, these are cured things, calls out for 10 grams of

[15:09] salt, saltpeter or pink salt. Now, listen, saltpeter is like an old thing that people call out, don't use it.

[15:19] Just forget it. There's no freaking reason to ever use saltpeters. Don't do it. What is that? What is salt Peter? A saltpeter is like a, I think it's pure sodium nitrate. I have to look it up. I'm not exactly sure. I think it's pure soda, so or something like that. Maybe Jack can look it up while I'm talking, but it's like an old thing that people used to get

[15:39] it, druggists, you know, a druggist. I got it once when I was a kid because I was making Natron, which is the mummification salt when I was doing my mummification project in

[15:48] elementary school and I had to like pack it into the thing. But the point is, is that you, is that you don't want to use it, right? Just don't, because it's incredibly easy to get nowadays curing salt,

[16:01] right? But you can't just say pink salt. right? So what happens is, is that regular salt is regular salt. If you want to get that kind of cured taste in color in meats in a reasonable amount of time, You have to add nitrites or nitrates. So the trick is, is that there's 3 different ways that the average person can get these these things. One is that there's 2 kinds of kind of uh, insta cures, pink salt called prey powder, one and 2 or insecure one and 2 or pink salt, right? One is the one that you want to get. It's nit right, right? And then 2 is the one you don't want to use, and that's nitrate. And, uh, the difference is, is that nitrite is, uh, consider that like a short acting, um, kind of cure agent, whereas the nitrate is a more, is kind of a longer

[16:48] acting because the nitrate has to get converted to nitrite before it can then do its, uh, its curing work.

[16:53] Now, so what do you use the nitrate for? Well, you use it for country hams and things like that. Basically nothing else. Anything else you're going to do, you're going to use nitrite. Definitely any wet brining you're going to do. You going to use nitrite, which is insecure one or prey powder one. Make sure you get the right one. The other thing you could do instead is use a product that you can get in a lot of places called Tender Quick. And that is salt with the insecure already put in on a salt weight basis. So then if you use that, if you use tender quick. That's a Morton's product and it's not as dense. You definitely have to weigh it, but then you omit the pink salt altogether. Anyways. Kenji says to marinate it in a vacuum or in a ziploc, if you marinate it in a vacuum bag, you're going to get a faster penetration and if you marinate it in a

[17:39] ziploc, he does it for 8 days, flipping it, that's all good. Then you, what you gotta, like the real baller ways. Like, if you want to do it quickly, is you could pressure marinate this thing, but you'd have to get like a pressure pot. They make stainless steel pressure pots for painting. Uh, or you, if you have a Cornelius keg, you,

[17:56] like, uh, you can throw the brisket into the corny keg and then you pressurize it at, like, 80 PSI with

[18:03] a, with a tank with, like, a CO2 tank. It's not going to hurt anything because you're going to get the CO2 out later or nitrous if you have it. like I have it. And then pressure marinate it and you can marinate it very, very quickly and then let it let it sit and it'll be a very equal cure then. You won't have to worry about salt equalization as much because it's going to penetrate very, very quickly. So that's something you can do if you really have a need to tech it up. If for some reason you don't want to wait around for 8 days or you just want to penetrate it and try something else, you can do that.

[18:30] I don't think it's kind of necessary from a quality standpoint. But here is where it gets interesting. He has Kenji has 2 different cooking techniques. Both are, take it out of the cure, wash it off, right? And then one is a traditional way, where you put it, Oh my god, nice, you remember, you guys, you've all seen Raiders of Lost Dark a 1000000 times, right? Yes. Yeah. So now I have in my head, because Dax repeats it constantly, is when the guy is looking at the headpiece of raw, and he goes, this is the old way. Remember that? Remember, he's like, he's like, take back one kadan. Remember this? Anyone remembers this? Where's like, where they're like, like the, the awesome dude and indie with the bad dates and the monkey where he's like, the, like the Nazi has burnt only one side of the staff into his

[19:18] hand, and so they make the, they make the, the staff 6 Kadan high, and then he has

[19:23] floops it over. He's like, take back one Kadan to honor the Hebrew god whose Octus is. And then they all say, the staff is too long. They're digging in the wrong place You don't remember this? Whenever anyone says take one back. It's all I can think about. This is only going to make sense to people who are Raiders of Lost Dark Fanatics. Jack, do you remember any of this? Not that specifically. remember the movie. Come on, it's one of the great movies, please. Declan here remembers that part. Yeah, nice. Sweet. At least somebody's with me on this. Anyways, where was I? Oh, yeah. So the old way. So, put it in a pot of water with a little bit, you know, with like an inch of water over or something like

[20:01] that, and then just, he puts it in the oven at 200 with a lid slightly ajar. So the real question is, how what temperature is that actually? He's cooking it for a long time, like 10 hours. So the presumption is that he's getting enough evaporation in there such that the temperature never gets above, probably, I don't know, 190, 180. I don't know. I'd have to measure it. don't know. He didn't give a measurement for the temperature that it is when it's in the oven. But when he does his uh, sous vide, his his his vacuum bag one, he cooks it at 180 Fahrenheit. Now that is traditional kind of temperatures. He also cooks it there for 10 hours, which I don't know. I don't know how long it takes to cook that out. But here is where you have a big change in texture, flavor and taste. When you're cooking the brisket in water, traditionally, right? You are giving it more of a poach, your leeching flavor out of the meat, right? And you're also giving it that kind of more poached texture, it's going to become more friable. It's gonna be, I don't know, it's going to be different, right? When you do it in the bag, it's going to be kind of more compact, more sliceable. Um, and it will have a more intense flavor. Now, here's the issue is that you're going to leach a lot less salt out when you cook it in the bag versus when you cook it

[21:17] in, um, in water. You're also not going to have the cooking liquid left later to redo the veg and all their stuff

[21:25] afterwards. So you have to come up with something else to do there. Now, another issue is, is that you have to choose what kind of texture you want. If you want a traditional texture on this thing, then you have to cook it high at

[21:38] a high temperature. And that's how I do confit, even in the bag, frankly, when I'm doing duck, high, for about the same length of time as you would normally, because you're cooking it roughly at the same temperature that you would normally cook it. The other alternative you can do, and it makes an entirely different product, not better, not worse, different, is to go low in temperature, something like 57

[21:57] degrees, uh, um, Celsius, 135 Fahrenheit, roughly. And then at that temperature, you're going to want to cook it for probably between 48 and 56 to 72 hours, somewhere in there, somewhere between 2 days and 3 days, probably in the 50s of

[22:16] hours. You're going to want to cook it for that long, right? So you have 2 choices. And it's based on what kind of texture you're trying to achieve. Now, the other thing is they mentioned, he mentions, is the cool down? Now, here is the vital part of this procedure. When you're doing it traditionally, you just leave the, you put the lid on, you let it cool down, as it cools down, it reabsorbs

[22:36] the, some of the juice from the boiling liquid, uh, that goes into it. And when you do the bag, you have to do the same thing. You have to let it reabsorb. Now, here's the trick. Do not simply throw the bag into ice water. You need to let it reabsorb the liquid. So what you want to want to do is take the bag out of the circulator, whatever else you're cooking it

[22:58] in, leave it on the table for at least at least 20, 30 minutes. Now, if you've cooked it up at 180. Remember, also, there's no botulism in here because you've cured it with nitrates or

[23:10] nitrates, rather. So you don't really have to worry that much about botulism. So I would, you know, not worry as much about how quickly you chill it

[23:18] down if it's in a vacuum bag. I probably shouldn't say that, but me personally, I wouldn't worry about it as much. And I'd want to get a low ramp down in temperature. So at very very fastest, I would ever chill it is like 20 minutes on the tabletop, on

[23:32] the on the countertop, in the air, and then 20 minutes in regular room temperature tap

[23:39] water, and then in ice water. But I would actually push it even further. I would probably do like half hour, half hour, and then an ice water to bring it down, let it cool down, and then do your rether when you cook it out because you're going to get it. If you're going to get a much better product than if you just shock chill it. That's going to be the big, uh, that's going to be the big Magilla. Yeah? that make any sense? Yes. You're like, I don't care. I don't care. Uh, okay. So Elliot Papineau wrote in. Good old Elliot, longtime listener of the show. And he only addresses it to me, says because he knows that I'm the only one answering the questions, but

[24:13] he does say hello, Stas, to you and to Jack. Hey, Elliot. He does say hello to us. He says hello to you, but he's not addressing the question to you. I know. I remember seeing that email in it. Yeah. Whoa, what do you mean? Give me some. Give me some insight into the noastos. You know, I was just like, I'm only addressing this to you, Dave, because you're the only one who answers the

[24:32] question. But then he said, hello. What? Oh, oh, by the way, you'll like this. Peter just came into the studio, and of course, he's doing the awkward. I don't know how to sit down, Peter Peter Kent thing. Peter came from the museum of food and drink, folks. Yeah. Oh, please, thank you guys. Yeah, please. So, uh, wait. I don't know how to sit down. Well, that one time Dave made me give him a freaking lap dance just to get over to that seat. That was a

[25:01] crossword. Family show. You weren't here at the beginning, but we're trying to be more professional now. Yeah. Okay. I'm gearing up for new spring growth. Ooh, how much do you hate that phrase, spring growth? Yeah. Even though you're a gardener. Now, gearing up for it. We still had a we had a frost this last week. Anyway. And I want to know the best vinegar and neutral alcohol to infuse with berries, wood, shoots, stems,

[25:29] et cetera. I plan on service berry, spruce tips, could call cherry wood, sour cherries, which I wish I could do. Wild raspberry, strawberry, bean flour, I guess, for the color, I guess, ramps, which are your favorite. He calls you out on that, Hammer's Fave ramps, because Mustasi hates ramps. Because everybody else has ramps. Because everyone else loves them. almost, yeah, it's almost ramp season now, too. annoying. I like how you're angry at the plants for growing. You're like those damn ramps in their springness. Also, if you ever meet Nastasia. Never tell her that you are enjoying the weather or that you can because she hates people enjoying the weather, right? You hate it. True, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think we've said this before, but she is like the singer from garbage. She is only happy when it rains. Anyway, so what do you suggest? I live in Illinois, Elliot Papineau. Well, that's a good question. Um, I mean, vinegar is so, I would just choose whatever vinegar you like, just be, you know, the flavor

[26:33] of, the thing is how clean do you want it to be? Remember, and how vinegary do you want it to be? The acidity is going to get mellowed by the fact that you're adding fruit and fruit is roughly, I don't know, probably over 80% water in that

[26:48] range. And so, you know, your acidity is gonna be very mellowed by the amount of fruit that's present in the vinegar. So if you want like hyperacid for the infusion, then you might want to go, remember that Swedish vinegar we used to

[27:00] use, does? Yeah. It's like super high acid Swedish vinegar. I forget what it was, but it was nutty baggins. It was like 10% or something acid. And that was like hyper vinegar distilled. I actually am a fan of, I have to say, like, like, I like the cleanness of distilled vinegar for a lot of cooking, but then on the other hand, I love,

[27:17] uh, you know, a delicious, uh, I love a delicious, uh, flavor vinegar as well, but on the alcohol, You definitely going to want to go, um, you're definitely going to want to go clean. Unless you have something specific. Now, here in the, in, in New York, we can get something called uh, Industry Standard Technical Reserve that's like 95, uh, five, but it smells and tastes a whole lot better than Everclear does. If you want to do some like super high stuff. But remember, you're going to be lowering the proof of the product by how you, you know, by the amount of fruit that's in it. But if you use a very high proof, very clean alcohol, you can add a lot of fruit to it and get very, very,

[27:56] you know, strong extractions out of it. So, or, hey, you can just use like a regular, but remember, like if you have a kilo of liquor and a kilo of

[28:09] fruit. You're going to end up with a proof eventually that is, you know, down

[28:14] in like the mid 20s somewhere. So that's going to mean that the fruit's going to age more, and different things are going to happen. Now, I forget, Elliot, whether it was you or somebody else that tried the pectin methylesterase, which is the novo shape, which is the pectin strengthening

[28:30] enzyme. But I would definitely, I think maybe it was you. But you definitely want to try that. This year, what I would do is take the fruit. I would add calcium. I would do an initial soak in water of the pectin methylesterase and calcium. And then I would add some extra for good measure to whatever you're

[28:50] going to steep in there. I don't know whether it, because I haven't tested it. I don't know whether it is deactivated by alcohol or not. Uh, I suppose we could find out. I could ask someone, but I would definitely add some both before as a pre-soak, if you can vacuum it in or let it or ISI that the enzyme into it along with calcium, you're going to get

[29:10] a with an ISI, because that's going to damage it from the pressure. But you're going to get a much firmer product and it stays firm over. Although, you know what? I had an old school back when I was allowed to have cherries. Uh, my, my stepfather's grandfather uh, put down some cherries in the

[29:27] 1920s uh, and his secret was he would just snip the stems, but leave the stem on. It's old wise tale, I'm pretty sure. But I had one of those cherries that was put down in the 20s in the late

[29:39] 80s and it was still good. Yeah, yeah, boozy. 2 left of that, by the way. There's 2 left of those cherries in the world. Anyway, does that make any sense, does? Any sense? Any sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't you have like something from him that you have to drink soon or something like

[29:56] that? Well, he's like 95 years old. So there's those 2 or 3 cherries left. So like the idea was I wanted to get and I almost got the story done once. I just wanted, uh, him, right? And then my stepfather and then my brother, Ben, and we're going to make Manhattans and put those cherries in it and just have like, you know, almost, it's almost a 100

[30:16] year. The cherry pretty soon will be a 100 years old. So I think it would be interesting that the last 3 of these things, and then you have a 95-year-old person. a, you know, 62 year old person and a 22 year old person, like 3 generations, like having a

[30:29] Manhattan. I think would be a good story. Wouldn't you? It's a good human interest story. I'm human. I have interests, maybe. Anyway, you want to do our 1st break and come right back with some quick issues? Great timing. Boom.

[30:52] Hey, what's up, guys? It's me, Jack, as in Jack, from cooking issues, as in the guy that's probably been talking on this show. So, here on the break to tell you about molecular recipes.com, which is not only an awesome website and store and resource, but

[31:09] also they support us, which makes them even that much cooler. So I know Dave gives you plenty and plenty of information on the show, but should you need further resource, should you want to get some of the

[31:19] things he's talking about molecular recipes.com has recipes, techniques, ingredients, tools, all in the world of this

[31:27] modernist thing we love so much on the show. So, you know, explore the world of foams and spheres and invisible foods and mind blowing cocktails, all that awesome stuff. There is a community of over 400,000 chefs, scientists and food lovers sharing their favorite recipes, tips, and tricks. Cool photos, tools, gadgets. Again, this is everything you'd be into, all in one place,

[31:49] molecular recipes.com, and just for being a listener of this show, you'll get 10% off any of their popular

[31:56] kits just by using the promo code heritage at checkout. That's promo code heritage. So again, check them out, molecularecipes.com. tons of really awesome stuff there. Definitely write up your alley. And welcome back to cooking issues. This is the mellow cooking issues voice, trying to be more professional. Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues with Peter Kim from the Museum of Food and Drink. Welcome back, Peter. Yes, yes. We need a little smooth jazz, Dave. Oh my god, smooth jazz. Oh, smooth jazz. Yacht rock. Yeah. That's it. Hey, did you didn't play Jackie molecules, Jack? Of course we did. Oh my brain was just fuzzed out. Can I hear a little more Jackie molecules? Um, it ran, but I mean, molecular recipes.com for more. Yeah, got great stuff. But they don't play the music. I just want to hear that. Oh, the song. No, we played the commercial over the break song today. Stas just hated that song so much, you know, like we couldn't couldn't keep playing it. Who did your break song, by the way? Jack. No, no, no. that song is not for me. No, that was a listener. Yeah, that was that was no, that's a long time ago, but the Jack molecule song. This would be the Jackie Molecule song. molecular recipes.com. It was appropriately molecular. It's molecular. Emma would love this. Well, that's good. Stas hated it. Just a song. Yeah, you know, we love molecular recipes.com, which you guys should check out, but the

[33:22] song... I actually prefer food that's not molecular myself. Yes, you prefer the anti-matter food. As they are well aware, I make fun of their name on a constant basis because I hate the term molecular cooking.

[33:36] I've been painted with that tar brush many times. Um, Linus writes in about East. Now listen. You know how like ISI and EC, like for years there was confusion over whether it was ISI or EC and it was ISI here

[33:51] and EC in Austria. You know who I'm talking about? whipped cream folk. Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. So I'm just going from now on, I'm just going to say EC, because that's what you're supposed to say now. So I'm not going to say I say I say anymore. Agreed. It's easy. Henceforth. Just easy. That's what it is. Yep. Okay. Now, EC makes a number of different whipped cream makers whipped. Now, they make a home jazz version, which is not stainless steel looking. It's like, it's, you know, metal, but it's like Teflon coated and it's not, it's got a plastic top instead of a metal top. Fine machine. I own that for many years. You know why? Hawaii? Because they are cheaper. Uh, so, you know, back in the day when all I used it for was whipped cream, that's what I owned. Do you own a whipper, by the way? No, not yet. Jump up. Okay. I'm just saying you're a chump. Yeah, that's fine. So the question is regarding whippers and different styles of whippers, because they have various different kinds, all right? That's a preface to this question from Linus. Okay? All right. Uh, love a show. Just had a couple of quick questions about EC whipping siphons. By the way, they've been called siphons since I believe they started getting called siphons in the US as a result of translations of Spanish stuff into the US. Technically, right, only the soda ones are siphons. And this is not blindness. This is not a reflection on you. Like everyone calls them siphons. They aren't siphons, unless they have the tube running from the top all the way down to the bottom, like a soda thing. It's the same way that if you order a CO2 tank and you want to get the dry ice out of it, you have to order what's called a siphon tank. It has a tube going on down to the bottom. Why? So you can siphon the liquid off of the bottom instead of getting the gas out of the top. So a real siphon, you don't have to turn upside down to get the whipped cream out

[35:38] of, like you do, whipped cream maker. And by the way, any of you jerks who don't turn the, the, how many times does it

[35:44] happen? Well, it doesn't happen because you don't own one, but like you pass the whipped cream thing around and someone like holds it freaking horizontally. And like discharges the gas without freaking discharging the whip cream. Horrible. Party foul. horrible. Horrible. Horrible. Horrible. Horrible. Anyway, um, so they're not really siphons. So I don't really care. I don't care about that as much as I care about like other semantic nonsense like sous vide versus low temperature or molecular versus, you know, cooking, you

[36:15] know? Uh, but I'm just saying, like, they're whippers, really, not deciphons, right? Okay. All right, all right. Enough, enough said on that. I recently purchased a used EC Profy Whip on eBay I like purchasing things on eBay, right? Now, the proffy whip is, it's meant for whipped cream. It's not meant. They didn't intend you to use it for other wacky cooking operations, but more on that to follow. The unit looks to be in good condition, but there was a dark, greasy

[36:45] film, is Nastasia back yet, by the way, her phone cutout. Yeah I'm here. How do you like that greasy? I don't I don't like the way you see that. I don't like the way he says a lot of things. Yeah, that's true. I like it. Yeah nice. There was a dark, greasy film on the inside of the head and all over the rubber gasket. Oof. Something akin to engine grease. I've managed to wash it off, though I need a replacement gasket, but I was wondering what the heck it is. And if I should be concerned. The body itself didn't seem affected. Any ideas as to what nefarious or benign purposes, the previous owner may have put this whipper to that might have caused this

[37:24] odd. Ooh, ready for this, Stas? Sebaceous residue. Whoa. Man. I know we did just call that dude a sebaceous residue. Damn. Anyway. So, you know what? It's like when any like, remember, you're making whipped cream in this thing. And when cream festers and gets old and sinks onto the surfaces of things, it turns into

[37:50] a brown, greasy, nasty, stanky, like, like old dairy, just, just nasty. And this is why I tell people, and I'll tell you again, do not store the whippers with the freaking

[38:08] lid screwed down. It just turns into nasty. Nasty, because unless you get all the stuff off, it's going to get nastier and nastier and nastier. You need to unscrew it, pull the gasket out, rinse the gasket

[38:21] off, right? And then, like, put it all together in a way that's not screwed together, and you'll prevent this nastiness from happening. I've had ones where not only have they gone greasy, but moldy,

[38:30] moldy, greasy, nasty, nasty. Now, if you were to boil that gasket, I'm sure it would come back

[38:38] to, you know, being not so smelly eventually. I mean, I don't know whether you've permanently altered it, but anyway, onto the next part of your... I think that's probably just cream is my point. Um, Secondly, I have read, uh, in the

[38:53] chef steps forum. Chef Steps, by the way, nominated for like a bunch of everything, like nominated for like up down, left, right for like, I don't know, best people, best people award, something like that. Everywhere, yeah. Uh, I have read in the Chef Steps Forum, that the proffy whip can be fitted with a silicone gasket from the gourmet slash thermo whip to make it compatible for hot applications.

[39:13] Do you think this is a good idea? And if so, how should the gasket be oriented inside the head as the gourmet series gasket has a protruding flap on it not found on the

[39:22] Prophy series gasket? What's the purpose of this flange and how should it sit within the head so as to not cause any unforeseen problems? Thanks for an informative and entertaining show. Cheers, Linus. Okay, so 1st of all, I'm sure most of you who can't instantly picture the inside of a

[39:35] whipper are lost. So I'm going to walk you through this. I'm going to walk you through. For those of you that don't have the whipper in your head. Whipper is like all the whippers that have the stainless steel, all the EC whippers that have

[39:48] a stainless steel bottom. Frankly, you can use in a hot application. The guys at EC are extremely extremely anal about what you can use in a hot and a cooking application and what you

[39:58] can't, and a lot of it has to do with very arcane possible issues where someone might get burnt or blah, blah, blah,

[40:05] blah, blah. I'm here to tell you the unit's going to work. All right? That's just a straight up thing. I'm extremely confident. I visited their factory. I've seen the stuff that they go through. I've seen the materials they use and they are like crazy nuts on all that. So you're going to be you're going to be okay. So you have the stainless bottom, which doesn't care whether it's hot or not, right? Now you have the head. Now, on the head, the different units have different, um, they have different valve technologies, right? Which some the EC guys won't that you use in certain applications or others. But it's not really a safety issue from terms of hot and cold because they can both be dishwashed. So you're not going to get hosed that way, right? Now, on the inside of the head. There is a gasket. Now, the silicone gasket can do like, obviously, very high temps because it's silicone. And that one is the one that they recommend for the cooking uses and the high temperature stuff. And that little flap that comes off of it is literally just a pull tab to make it easier to go in there and pull the

[41:03] gasket out. The other one, I don't really know the rubber composition of it, but it's going to be fine. I'm telling you this from experience because I've had it hot a 1000000000 times and I've never had a problem. Now, maybe someone can EC can call me and tell me that, like, you know, I'm endangering myself, but I doubt it. The other one is a different rubber composition, and instead of that pull tab, It's got an inner ring that the whole ring flaps out and you can loop your finger into it and pull it out. Either one fits because the heads, I'm here to tell you, fit on the same bottoms. Every one of the professional things is completely interchangeable. So you can take the head of a one liter whipper and put it on a half liter whipper. You can take the head of a half liter whipper and put it onto

[41:47] a, um, put it onto a thermo whip, which is the one that's, by the way, the thermo whip

[41:54] is, uh, is to keep things hot, not to actually heat them up. So if you're going to heat up the actual whipper, then you don't want to use the thermal whip. The thermal whip is just to keep hot things hot for a long period of time, like a thermos, right? All the parts are interchangeable, including the gasket. So if you want to get a new gasket and you want to get the silicone one, because that's recommended for the hotter stuff, then go ahead and get it because the machining on the inside of the head is all the same. The other thing, like I said, the valves can be slightly different, but the actual threads and the seating stuff for the gasket, you're

[42:23] going to be okay. And I know this from experience. Yeah? Yeah, you ever that? Yeah, all right. Um, I was like, I don't care. I don't care. Kevin wrote in. I started to listen to the show a few months ago and keep coming back because it's super informative and pretty

[42:40] hilarious. Well, thank you. I have more personal questions for I have a more personal question. By the way, every week, Stas. We say your questions, cooking or otherwise. So here you go. Otherwise, this is the 1st time Nastasia has been called out, right? Oh, right. this one. I have a more personal question for Nastasia. It seems like whenever anyone mentions that you went to Stanford, the university, not Stanford, the town, which you also like. I love Stanford, the town. You know that. Yeah, yeah. The stars has this love affair with the town of Stanford, Connecticut. Not the actual city center, which by the way, I don't like the architecture there. I'm just saying, no offense to the WWE or WWF, whatever it is,

[43:21] like the wrestling federation has their stuff there. But you like the waterfront there in Stanford. I like those. I like the Japan. I like one specific structure in Japan, yeah. Yeah, okay. Uh, see, but we're not talking about that. We're talking about Stan Ford. Stan Ford. Okay. The, the college founded by, or with the money from uh, Leland Stanford uh, in California. You were born there. I was born there. I was born there. Uh, and that's basically it. Like, we hightailed it out of there when I was 3 and, you know, not going to say never looked back. Nice over there. anyway, whatever. Dave is a Californian really cracks me up. Yeah, right? The fact that I'm a born Californian. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm the opposite of everyone. I was born in California. I moved here. like a smoothie sipping alfalfa sprout sandwich. Never freaking say that I mean, alfalfa sprout, anything. They are the devil. I challenge you to find anyone on earth that actually likes the flavor of those rancid things. No one likes them. They eat them because they think that they're good. I like the flavor. You like alfalfa sprouts? Get out. Well, what do you mean you like it? Do you like poison? No, I think it just has a nice fresh taste to it. It's not fresh. It's the opposite of fresh. It tastes like poison. Peter, I'm with you. You think, wait, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who. Oh, Stasi just does the bullet. They taste dirty and raw. To you. To me, they taste fresh, clean. Fresh, clean. so clean. Yeah, definitely. I'm with you. with you on this, man. Yeah. I mean, that is like a central dish, but... I think they get stuck in your freaking teeth. They're like, they look nasty. They look like they look like steel wool or something bad has happened. I actually, yeah, no, that's no problem. I think I think they're the worst. Yeah. I don't find it to be offensive at all. tastes good to me. I like sprouts in general though. Some people find partially offensive. Well, parsley, I mean, I love parsley. But, like, sprouts, they're they're actually physically, like,

[45:21] full normally full of bacteria because of the terrible conditions in which they're produced, and they taste of it. They taste like they were grown in like somebody's shoe. And they are almost invariably raw. So they, listen, I realize everybody likes pea shoots, for instance. And I don't like them very much because of that raw flavor. I wish they would just be cooked a little bit. Because I don't like that starchy rawness. So you have the leftover uncooked, you know, seed, right? which has been festering and gunk because they had to keep it moist for all that time in a warm environment. And then a little kind of poorly textured nonsense popping out of it. What's good about that? You know, it's just a really fresh. Well, you say fresh. For me, that's the way I would describe it. Like mung bean sprouts, I love mung bean sprouts. It's a big part of Korean cuisine too. That's the only good sprout. You just mentioned the only good sprout. There are other good sprouts. I like broccoli sprouts. I like alfalfa sprouts. No, see, alfalfa, no, alfalfa. I like radish sprouts. Terrible. I like cooked sprouts. Yeah, yeah. Washed, like very thoroughly washed cooked sprouts. Well, so here's the question. Is it just the idea of it festering or is it it's also just

[46:32] a flavor, too, right? Maybe the idea doesn't depend. Okay. Okay, here's what I freaking hate. So it takes, like, they make what would otherwise be an okay sandwich, and then they put this mess of hairy, dirty tasting nonsense on top. And then you're like, ah, ah, and you can't even pick them all out because when you rip, take it off. Like some of it invariably is embedded and whatever else is in this thing. You can't get it out and like one of them reeks of the freaking sprout container that these nasty things were produced in.

[47:03] Yeah, all right. Wow. Yeah, I know. Somebody like More than one. Every time it happens to me. You know who likes them? People who like raps. Yeah. I think they're hand in hand. Undercooked tortillas and freaking sprouts. I'm imagining a bully who wore like a varsity jacket, shove Dave against the lockers in high school and like made him force him to eat an alfalfa sprout rap. I mean, it's just horrible. like you just have to pretend that you're not alive for the couple minutes while you're eating it. It's like, it's not that bad. I mean, like, I can eat anything. You know what I mean? It's just, I would never ruin food with it. Yeah, yeah. Well, anyway, we're together on the rap thing, but sprouts, I like them. So how about Stanford? Dave is frozen right now. No, I thought you guys were gonna... No, no, no. No stuff. You're not getting deflected. back, I'm back. Okay. Nastasia, it seems like whenever anyone mentions he went to Stanford. You don't want to talk about it and refer to it as that place you went to college in quotes. As a current Stanford undergrad. I am curious. What was your experience at Stanford like? Also, how the heck did you start working for Dave? So, uh, best Kevin class of uh, 15. So graduating this year, this year. Wow, good, good from here. No, I didn't need it, and I'm not, and I'm not trying to be like, me, me, me, me, feel sorry for me when I talk about this, but I worked 40 hours a

[48:33] week, and I took the full load while I was there, and I just didn't really have much of a Stanford experience, because I was more worried about paying the money. Uh, paying the commission off and I graduated in 3 years

[48:47] just to get out of there, um, because I was sick of paying that money. And yeah, that's that's it. That's fair. a really fair answer. Yeah, you didn't, but the thing about it is, what you're saying is, is it has nothing to do with the college. It has to do with the fact that you don't feel like you got the standard college experience. Right. Yes, exactly. Yeah, right, right. All right. But you have nothing against it. I mean, it's a pretty, it's pretty campus, right? It's a pretty campus. Do you have Sputnik flying through your hair? What's going on here? Are you on a spaceship? No, no. It's a metal detector on the beach. Yeah, yeah. Oh, she's out on the beach? Did you find it like an old half dollar or something? Someone's gold ring that they lost in the surf? Was it mine? You know, I lost my I lost a gold ring in the surf one. I lost one of my wedding wings in the surf. Oh, yeah. And then you said all the women and for the rest of that trip kept checking you out. That no, that was a different trip. That was a different trip. I've lost my wedding ring. I've lost it off my finger twice. And once in a surf, and once, I swear to God, milking a cow. It was either when I was milking the cow or when I was doing the dishes. So I had this event I was doing in New Orleans and I was washing a lot of dishes and then I was also milking a cow and it's when I was milking

[50:06] the after I milked the cow that I noticed because they were doing fresh syllabub, I noticed that my ring was gone. And the 3rd one that I lost, it got crimped around my finger and had to be cut off. Oh my good. So that's why now I have stainless steel wedding band and it's like, you know, never get crimped. So you're telling me somebody found a gold ring in their cereal bowl? All right, in the surf. You know, that's what Stas is doing right now. Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. Oh, wait. And the other half of that question is how did I meet you? We met through Chesre on a farm trip. Uh, and we were in the same car. Yeah, we were in the same car and that's when we bonded over. I think we just told the story on the air. We bonded over this crazy anti-Semite. Yeah. Yeah. He was like, I can find you anywhere. He's like, he was, did we tell the story anything, I remember? He says, he goes, he goes, you know what? People, they always make a mistake. I can always find him. You know what they don't give up? The car. They don't give up their car. They'll give up their wife. They give up their kids. They don't give up their cards, then I'll find them. Yeah. And then he's like, plus I hate Jews. And we're like, what the whoa! And we're in a car with this guy for hours. He's driving us and like, he wasn't that blatant about it, but almost, right, Stars? Sounds like the guy from Iglorious Bastards. I mean, it was like the most random thing in the world. I was like, I was like, what are you supposed to do? Like, you're trapped in a car with a fuck... I have one question. Sorry, I almost almost dropped that. You trapped in a car with like a vicious anti-Semite. What are you supposed to do? Yeah, you become friends with the person who's not an anti-semite. Yeah, and so that's why we're working together now. Yes. We literally, Bonnie, we're like, we were the only people in the car that we weren't afraid of. So essentially the bar got lowered low enough to allow for the possibility of friendship to develop between the

[52:00] 2 of you. Right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like just somebody with like a mild, like a touch of racism. You guys wouldn't have like. We never would have worse together. No, no, exactly. could have just shrugged it off. exactly. But it was like, it was like that kind of like, like nuclear bomb blast of, holy crap, you know, he's saying this now. Yeah, kind of like, you know, you know what I mean? Like, you know, when someone says something, it's... One of those things. Wait, so, Dave, I had one question. Somebody doesn't believe that we saw John George working in a sailor suit. Who doesn't believe that? That's just truth. That the truth. Look, we did an event. I don't even remember what the event was for, but it was at... But do you have a photo? And I'm like, no, I don't take photos. Look, we're people. We're working. know what I mean? Nastasia made me dress in a shirt, like a light denim shirt, 8 times too small for me with

[52:59] a fuzzy, like appliquade sheep on it. What? And a rainbow and a rainbow. Yeah. Which you own that shirt now. And Jean George and Greg Brainan were there for Jean George. They were doing a lobster roll and they were dressed in sailor's outfits, like straight up. And you know what? Big props, or big ups, as we might say, to JG for kicking enough behind that he can show up in a sailor's outfit. And why were you wearing what you were wearing? Because Nastasia made me. Why else am I doing anything? All right, let's get us some questions. I hate to do this, guys. It so much time. All right, I'll rip one minute. All right. Brett Humphrey's right in saying about centrifuges. I'm going to have to go back to jet wine speed. First, I wanted to thank you for the many years of enjoyment through the cooking issues blog. If it hadn't been for that blog, I never would have gone to the Fruit and Spice Park in Florida. Good times, right, Stas? Yeah. Yeah. Not of the way place, but great fun. I always recommend anyone's going to be in South Dade to go to the Fruit and Spice Park. Awesome. But try to get a special tour so you can actually taste the fruit. You know how tropical fruit people are. anyway. Or maybe you don't. I recently bought a copy of your book, Liquid Intelligence, and also spend an enjoyable evening at Booker and Dax. The book inspired me to buy a centrifuge and apparently I've picked up one similar to what you use at Juan 412. That is very similar to what I use. 3 that are benchtop fuse. Fuge. This was bought, used, and I understand all the risks and concerns associated with such a purchase. I'm working to get it up and running, but have a question. What do you use for centrifuge bottles? In your book, one picture shows them pouring directly into the bucket. I do not believe you would actually use the bucket directly. Any advice or direction would be greatly appreciated again. Thank you for the interesting lessons throughout the years, regards Brett Humphreys. In fact, I do use the bucket directly for many years. I didn't. And then I was like, you know what? I'm just going to use the freaking bucket. You want to make sure that you don't put anything into the bucket that's going to hot. Look, the buckets are anodized aluminum. If the anodization, if the anodized coding is good, I don't think you're going to damage the aluminum much with the very short amount of time that

[55:00] acids like juices are sitting in it. don't let stuff sit in the bucket for a long time, but there's no bottle that works really well. I used to make little vacuum. I used to take a sealer and bags and form little like kind of lunch bags that fit in it to get it out, but all the bottles suck because you have to unscrew them. They have a throat, et cetera, et cetera. So I spin directly in the buckets. Downside. You can't fill up too much. If you fill up too much, you can spill stuff as it spins up and spins down. You have to make sure the pins on the buckets are nice and smooth so you don't get any like flap around while it's going. But yes, I do spin directly in the buckets. Make sure you never use, put them in a dishwasher, put the turf. Anything would harm aluminum. you don't want to do. Listen, they're going to kick me off the air, but Brian, Brian Van Claverin, I have your question on ham for next week. I'll start off with it next week on how to keep a ham for a long time because what is what is the definition of forever? Two people in a Virginia ham? We're going to get going on it next week, how to keep your ham, cooking issues. Thanks for listening to this program on heritageradionetwork.org. You can find all of our archived programs on our website or as podcasts in the iTunes

[56:14] store by searching Heritage Radio Network. You can like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter at Heritage underscore radio. You can email us with questions anytime at info at heritageradionetwork.org. Heritage Radio Network is a 501c3 nonprofit. To donate and become a member, visit our website today. Thanks for listening.