[0:00] Today's program is brought to you by Heritage Foods USA, the nation's largest distributor of

[0:05] heritage breed pigs and turkeys. For more information, visit heritagefoodsusa.com. I'm Damon Bolty, host of the Speakeasy. You're listening to Heritage Radio Network, broadcasting live from Bushwick, Brooklyn. If you like this program, visit heritageradionetwork.org for 1000s more.

[0:29] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues. Come to you live in the Heritage Radio Network and Reverse Pizzeria in Bushwick, Brooklyn, calling all of your questions to 718-497-2128. That's 718-497-2128.

[0:43] Nastasia the Hammer Lopez is currently en route from Chicago at the James Beard Awards, but we are joined in studio today with Peter Kim, the

[0:50] W president director. Galactic Emperor, may I told you? Lawyer Emeritus? You are actually the lawyer of Emeritus. I am the lawyer Meredith, yes. Yes, of the Museum of Food and Drinks. Basically, you were looking for a legal counsel to justify all of your nefarious actions. Not on the air, Peter. And Veronica, who's a new intern at the museum and hails originally, I guess, from Brazil, but is currently living

[1:14] in Miami. Yes, sir. Yeah, it feels in here like Miami. It feels in this room like we're in Miami. Bringing some sunshine to New York. Yeah, more of the humidity. And the sulfur stink. That's the other thing people don't realize they've never been to Florida. The entire place smells of sulfurous groundwater. Or is that just me that believes that? Can't blame me for it, though. Yeah, yeah. No, I don't know. Maybe you did dope all of the entire ground with sulfurous minerals.

[1:36] don't know. You know that smell, that Florida water smell when they water the lawns with that Florida water? Yeah. Do they have on that side the giant palmetto bugs? First of all, is everything just built and cleared palmetto like it is over in Sarasota or is it different? Well, I'm actually from North Miami. So I am pretty much in the clear of palmetto bags, thankfully. Oh, nice, yeah. They make our cockroaches look like... I know. Like, you know, like nothing like weaklings. Yeah. Yeah. Although we do have the giant water bugs here in New York that are on the lower floors of our buildings

[2:06] only, and they don't congregate in huge packs. I call them travelers because they just kind of, you see when you kill it. You're not worried about infestation because it came somewhere from the pipes down from the depths where the alligators

[2:15] grow. Also important. Speaking of water bugs, Dave's covered in water. All right, I biked here. And joined in the engineering booth with our old pal, Jack Insley. Hey guys. How you doing? pretty good. Good. So have we have a bunch of stuff to get to, so I'll just get to it. Although please do call your questions too. 718-497-2128. That 718-4972128. Sad news to report. Most of you who are plugged into the food internetosphere, probably already know, but Joshua Zerski died yesterday. They still haven't figured out kind of why he died, but he was found in his hotel room yesterday morning, he was in Chicago actually for

[2:58] the Beard Awards. He's only 47, very sad, you know, very kind of larger than life figure. You know, I've worked with him a couple times over the years on things. So, you know. Yeah, much respect. Yeah, and he actually did a show here for a while back in 2009 and 10. I remember that. Yeah, the Mr. Cutlets show. Yeah, you know, I could tell some, I won't, maybe eventually, I could tell some crazy Josh stories. Like he's crazy, he was like a larger than life, a legit, kind of larger than life individual. Had a couple of, uh, uh, same early champions as I did, like Jeffrey Steingarten. Um, yeah, you know, it's just, uh, crazy. Well, well, it depends on how you define it. I get. He's here. he is like, you know, like his writing was over the top. He was over the top. Anyway, he's definitely going to be missing the food world. So it's a sorry announcement to have to make. So rather than go launching into my normal stuff, why don't you talk, we have a museum benefit coming up in

[3:58] next week, actually. next Wednesday. So we've got the annual MoFad spring benefit dinner coming up and, well, I'm biased, but I think this is really the most exciting dining event in New York City.

[4:10] We get, this is actually a concept that Dave put together. Um, and it's... With Nastasia, the Hammer

[4:18] Lopez, and Patrick Martens, as Dave wipes the moisture off his face. But we get we get 8 of the best chefs in the country to come together and put together a meal, but it's not just any kind of

[4:28] meal. We do museum themes like food of ancient Rome or space food or what else have we done, Dave? We did caveman food. Oh, it was good, Wiley? Yeah, Wiley did caveman food. Well, speaking of James Beard and winners, TV dinner. Yep, yep exactly. TV Dinner by Michael Anthony, who just won the James Beard Award for Outstanding Chef. We did ancient Rome with a whole ostrich by another Mark Wadner, just

[4:50] best chef in New York City. And congrats, Mark. Uh, Tosi did uh, Chef Christina did uh, space food. She's just one for outstanding pastry chef. So we have a lot of big, a lot of big people. Well, this you want to give him a rundown who it is? Yeah, yeah. So this year we've got a great lineup. Don't mission here, I'll kill you. Yeah, yeah. We got Aaron Blue Dorn. from Cafe Balloon. We've got Elizabeth Faulkner. We've got Alex Guornischelli. She's gonna be doing what would Jesus eat, which I think is really one of the more exciting topics. We've got Mads Wrestling, one of them. No, we know what he drinks. You know he turns water into wine when the keg is kicked at the wedding. That we know. And then I can then turn wine into pee. That's my special one. Wow, we just got in trouble with a whole chunk of our listeners there. So there you go. Anyway, and then we have Mads Roughlon, one of the co-founders of Noma, and now he's at the helm of Acme. He doing weeds of New York. We've got Andy Ricker, your friend, my friend, uh, pock pock man, and he's doing rotten, rotten food. And then we've got... Remember, like, we're giving that because, like, I know for he likes doing things like fermented short ribs and stuff like this. So we gave him, and the concept here, I'll let you finish, so you don't forget anyone. Yeah, yeah. Marcus Samuelson, and then we've got... What's his theme again? What's his theme? Oh, yeah, he's doing, so around the turn of the 19th century, the Emperor Menelik, who's one of the most beloved emperors of Ethiopia, held all these giant public banquets for 10,000, over 10,000 people at a time, and so he's doing a meal that is an homage to that.

[6:19] Okay. Then we have Bill Telepan. He's taking on the story of an ancient Sassenite dish called Sick Baj. I don't know if I'm pronouncing it correctly, but... It's old. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That title is actually stolen from the language of food. which is a book out by Juroski, about the history of certain, like, a linguistic approach to, you know,

[6:42] a linguist reads the menu kind of a thing. Yeah. And then and then we've got Bill Yosef, the former executive pastry chef at the White House, taking on the topic when the White House burned because in 1814, the British troops arrived at the White House, did burn it down, but they found, bizarrely enough, a meal laid out for them that was a meal that

[7:00] the President Madison and Dolly Madison. The 1st lady had abandoned in their haste to leave. Of course, they saved the portrait of George Washington. And they say Americans aren't polite. We left dinner today. Exactly, exactly. So they ate it, they drank it, then they burned the house down. See, it's the Brits. the Brits who caused the problems. Exactly. I'll be in Britain, actually. Next week as well, right after they benefit. I fly out to London. I'm doing cocktail demos at center townhouse. Cheers. Again, now you got in trouble with the other half of it. Oh, yes, there we go. My goal is to alienate pretty much everybody, except you. And then, so anyway, so tickets, we just got a handful of tickets left. And, oh, yeah, booze by none other than some smuck

[7:38] named Dave Arnold. Also maybe a James Beard Award winner. They will be James Beard Award winning author's cocktails. That's the most precise way to put it. Yeah, Prono cards giving us a liquor for that. We got Prono Ricard for liquor. We're going to have Jeffrey Porter, the wine director at Del Posto, is getting an incredible lineup of wine. We got sparkling wine, champagne. We've got, and then... Yeah, yeah, Nastasi will be there in the corner with a bottle of champagne. And then we'll have a selection of 6 wines available during the dinner. This is going to be essentially a pretty blowout affair at Carnegie Hall, top 2 floors, rooftop

[8:16] terrace looking over the city. That's expensive. Yes, it is, it is expensive, but of course, it's to support the development of the Museum of Food and Drink, which is itself a worthy cause, but the 1st time we did this, we were incredibly stupid. We charged $250 and how much would you have to pay for that meal if you want to go get it? I mean, there's no price you could pay for it. So now we're charging something that's like, you know, we're charging museum style, like benefit prices now because we're older and wiser. But I'll tell you something. The great thing about all these, we'll give you the price in a minute before now how much would you pay? But the thing is, 3 low, low installments. Yeah, yeah. And we can do that frankly. We could do that, we could probably do that. The 3 no installments. Yeah, we could take the installment plan. Yeah, I'll take the installment. Anyway, but the point is, we hopefully, also,

[8:59] you also get a little, like, you know, a spiel and taste about what we're going to be doing in the museum in the upcoming year, directly from Peter's

[9:06] mouth. But the way we structure the, the reason we structure the benefit this way is 9 times out of 10, uh, 10 times out of 10 really, unless you only go to uh, 10 benefits a year and one of them's ours, the, uh, you know, they have a chef come

[9:19] in and uh, the chefs are, you know, maybe they get a couple of chefs or maybe they have big tastings, but typically the chef is doing something that is some version of what you might be able to get at their restaurant. And we do exactly the opposite. It's actually a huge kind of challenge that our chefs take on. It's a huge commitment, which is why we're so grateful to all of the chefs that

[9:38] have done it over the years and the ones that are doing it this year. In fact, I mean, look to see a bunch of them, we invite the chefs who have done it to come just as guests and expect to see some of those heavy hitters there at

[9:47] the benefit as well. But you're going to get stuff that they don't cook otherwise. And so you can't really ever buy any of this stuff. You know, it's not something that they would ever do normally. So we're making them get out of their comfort zone. Yeah, so one night only. I mean, like, you know, like the giant ostrich that Mark did. Now how much would you pay? Yes, exactly. So tickets are $750 ahead. Ouch. And, uh, I'm kidding. Look, we're trying to build a museum here, okay? So 750 ahead. It is, you know, we do put a lot of love into it and tickets are available at benefit.mofed.org. I think we've only got like 10 or 11 tickets left. So definitely hop on and get it pronto if you want to go. But definitely the secret ingredient here isn't love, it's money. Yes, yes. Yes, the secret ingredient here is money. Yes, yes, yes exactly. Um, so, uh, yeah, benefit.mofi.org. Nice. All right. And Jack, is our Kickstarter still going? It is. We got 7 days left. All right, do your plug. get all the plugs out of the way for Custino's sake. Yeah, donate, donate, donate. 7 days left or this website explodes. Are you going to really just say, donate, donate, donate? Yeah. Donate. Donate, donate. Sunday. Yeah, like that. was just baiting you. All right, all right. Here we go. Anyway. Yeah. How close are we, Jack? We're about $7,000 away. So you made half the money from last week. Right. And we have 7 more days. People, please. People, please. People. Come on. Please. Do you want to be able to have a website so that, like, the stuff that you call in to 718-497-2128 actually gets put on a website that works and has new and interesting content? I don't know. Do you? Did you see Jack's puppy dog eyes right now? Jackie Molecules is crying some sweet, sweet H2O out of

[11:36] his out of his tear ducks, right? And you're crying some sweet, sweet Aceua of your forehead. Dude, like, enough with the like, I biked here. Enough. Enough. All right. Today is Cinco de Mayo. and in honor, yesterday, for those of you that listen to this or like follow the tweet, when I was in Mexico a couple of weeks ago, I bought a

[11:57] nixtomatic grinder, which allows me to make masa. Well, better than the corona, which I detest, and better than the

[12:03] cuisinart, which I detest for this application, better than, actually, you made the ride next to mine with me. What a pain in the butt that was. pain in the bleep man. Yeah, that sucked. Tasted good. Yeah, outstanding. Yeah. Half of them went in the trash at the end of the day. People are the worst. You know something about people, people? they're the worst Not you, dear listener, but everybody else. That one next to you is not listening. He's the worst, right? Yeah, the worst. Or her. Maybe she's the worst. don't know. I don't know who's sitting next to you. Yeah. Anyways. So the issue here is that it's hard to get some really interesting corn. So I observed a lot of tortilla, not a lot, but as many as I could while I was working. Tortillas being made in Mexico, came up with my grinder, you know, totally, you know, somehow packed it into my bag and got it under the weight limit. You ever do that trick when you're putting your bag on the scale. And you lift a little bit with the other hand, like you hold it down, you lift a little bit. I do it on the edge or put my knee up against it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's up, Slickster? Same with me. Yeah. Because you know what? They don't know how much they don't weigh me. They don't know how much I weigh. They don't have a weight limit on me. What do they put a weight limit on my bag? they're jerks. I'm buying a grinder. You know what I mean? The other trick is, like, normally when I bring something that's a 1000000000 pounds, I'll just put it in

[13:16] my, I've trained myself over the years to look like I'm carrying a normal weight backpack when I'm in fact

[13:21] carrying, like, a backpack full of lead bricks. You know what I mean? And so if you can if you look like you're like, when you're going through the line, they're like, oh, no, man, we got to weigh that. But if you just look like you're carrying a bag. You can collapse as soon as you get through security. But like, that dude just has purple arms. That's purple. He's purple. You know? His face is white as the driven snow and his arms are purple. This is absolutely normal. Like, you know, you know, he had a body transplant from grimace or something. But, you know, that being as it may, the point is, is that I couldn't carry different countries have different rules about what's coached. So I probably could have gotten the grinder through American TSA, even though I couldn't get the powders through

[14:03] it, because they're usually okay with electric motors, as long as it can't be interpreted as a weapon, but I've had electric motors be problems in Colombia, and no one could tell me with a straight kind of story what the Mexican rules were going to

[14:14] be, so I didn't want a chance, so I had to check it. Anyways. Anyways. Anyways. Okay. So, uh, single to Mayo. I come back. I want to get the good corn. I was talking last week at the other beards, the one that was here with Rick Bayliss, and he's like, well, where should I get the, where should I get the good corn from? He's like, you idiot, go to go to Masienda. I was like, duh, because I know them. Why wasn't I thinking? So I went, in fact, yesterday, I did a fast next normalization people, so it's not the best. But expect more to come. I did met up with Jorge Gavaria from

[14:45] Massienda, who gave me some of the most awesome kind of corns. I was tasting them dry, just really interesting corns. So the one I did yesterday was a white bolita from Micha Khan, which was just had an incredible kind of corn, kind of almost like a, almost like a movie theater of corn taste right out of the dry, uncooked. Yeah, so I

[15:03] mixed my eyes yesterday. So now my game needs. I need to get my nixon my nixtomatic kind of tuned in more and needs to be broken in. I need another couple pounds of masa. And I need to get my tortilla press in order, man. I have that Victoria, the regular Victoria tortilla press, and it's just weak. Everyone says it's great, but I look at it and there's too much slop in the freaking hinge, right? So like, it pinches it in an angle. So the tortillas A, they're too thick on the one, even if I double flip them, I'd have to quadruple freaking flip them to get them the way I

[15:31] want, and then I'm always overpressing the one side that's closest to the freaking handle. Why don't they just machine the thing with the right freaking thickness for what I want. So I'm going to have to build some spacers or else get a better press. Because the lady who like did the best that I saw in Mexico. I mean, I didn't see any of the sweet, sweet, old, you know, Abuelitas doing it with a... Yeah, that's wild. awesome. incredible. But, like, these guys weren't using the little Victoria, like, hand press that I was using, they were using 2 sheets of giant coal roll steel with a, with a, with a big pipe on

[16:02] it, and they were just like, bat, bat, bat, and they were like totally even throughout. So I'm going to more on that later over the next couple weeks. talk about it when I get it. But in honor of the Cinco to my eye, I brought in some treats from Mexico for us. Yeah? So I have, I don't know if I talked about these before, but these are from Puebla. These are camotes. you know these? No. So apparently these nuns. I don't know, Santa Clara, Santa Clara, or something like this. These nuns use this, like, this, like, fancy sweet potato that grows around Puebla, and it's only made in Puebla. They call it commotes and they make these sweets with flavors in them. So why don't we like, they're different flavors. You can read semi-Spanish so you can tell me. And then Jack, you can have some of these. And then also I brought in my favorite Mexican confection, Mazapan. Oh, nice. Mazapan is like their take on marzipan, but it's actually made, it's just made with

[16:51] peanuts and it has a texture of... This is what Halva wishes it would be. Sorry, all of the grease in the Middle East. This is what Halva wishes it could be for those of you that aren't allergic to the peanut.

[17:01] You allergic to the peanut? Not allergic to the peanut. have some peanut. Jack, peanut, peanut product. Love it. Yeah, here, have one. Come take one. Cooking issues. Recording in a studio that may contain nuts. Okay. Now, let's get to some questions. You like that, right? You try that? You try it? You guys are so slow. I would have finished the whole box by now Thanks, Dave. I know, man. You do hungry, hungry hippos, but you know, I like to savor things. Oh, you know what? You jerk. It's called mindfulness, Dave. It's a new thing. Jerk. What flavor are you opening at? Well, we had to do the smarmy accent. Is that... Well, that's a smarty. That just my normal voice, man. Why? You know what I like about them? They dry out on the outside, but the inside has like a kind of an awesome kind of a texture. They're only made in Puebla, baby. Why don't we take a really quick break now? All right, we'll come right back with some actual questions on cooking issues.

[19:16] We're back. And we don't have to do a commercial thing because we're brought to us by us. Yeah, how about that? Is that because nobody loves us enough to support us anymore, Jack? No they love us. We're just switching it up. Cooking is used. It supported by absolutely nobody. Oh, that's not true. so rough. Let me ask you a question, though. I was wondering the other day, who's the largest supplier of heritage

[19:40] and rare breed meats? Um, I think it starts with uh, H? I don't know, I can't place it. can't place it. I can't. I'm taking my tongue, man. I can't I can't. I don't know. I don't know. I am Patrick Martin. All right, Peter, do your Patrick Martin's invitation. man, you can't have me do that. I can't do it. I don't what you're talking about. You're the one who has a good impression. You're a liar. foodsusa.com. That's heritage foodsusa.com. Oh, I see, because he's, because, because Patrick, you get mad. He's probably calling and saying, what are you doing? He's too busy selling, selling meat right now. selling heritage meats. Sam Geiger wrote in a while back with cold pack squirrel. That's right. Cold packed squirrel wants to know. Hey, can you discuss the best way to cook squirrel that have been cold

[20:35] pack can. Thanks, Sam Geiger. Well, Sam. I hate to break this to you, buddy. It's cold pack can. sucker's already cooked. You don't need to cook it again, but I think I was reading actually a lot on Squirrel. The success of squirrel meat Canning. And I've never done it. I knew a guy in, I swear to God, I knew a guy in North Carolina who used to pay his landscaping crew in

[20:56] Squirrel. You know what I'm saying? Because I've only had squirrel in mixed in with stews in North Carolina. So when you're making a squirrel that way, There's really no way for me to tell you I know what squirrel tastes like. It's like when someone gives you little tidbits of alligator that have been coated in like

[21:12] a half inch of batter and fried within an inch of its life, right? Right? So, like, Veronica, what does that taste like? Tastes like fry. I right? Exactly, and it's pretty chewy. Yeah, I've had bigger pieces of alligator and it's kind of like, like, it needs to be really fresh. I had like previously frozen, refrozen, like kept in somebody's like swamp cooler alligator. And in big chunks, you don't want that. Is it like snake? For some reason, I imagine it being like snake. Uh, I've only had snake in small chunks with a taste like fry. I've never had like a whole grilled snake. I'm sure it's good. I love snake. Yeah, but it's going to be fresh, right? I'm sure it's a delicate meat that is abused too much by freezing and refreezing. That's the only large chunk alligators I've ever cooked tasted have been cooked that way. So I'm not, and similarly with squirrel. I'm going to go ahead and say that I've never, I've never had it in such a way that I know I could say this is what squirrel tastes like. My guess is it tastes like rabbit. I hear that how squirrel tastes is vitally dependent on how it was skinned, whether all the glands have been taken out of

[22:09] the squirrel. Um, that said, I mean, I mean, I'm sure it's like, uh, I'm sure it's like rabbit. So if you'd use it anyway, you would use like a canned kind of a rabbit, any kind of a white meat. Strangely, all the cold pack canning, they can in, um, in kind of liquids, not in fat, because I think they're worried about the fat thing, because I think it would be good to have it like riette.

[22:28] I would want, like, put some pork fat up in that piece and make it Riette style, right? wouldn't that be delicious? If anyone out there has made, Hey, Nastasio, the Hammer Lopez is here, move my bag, please. And my helmet, please. Um, I would love to have some squirrel riette. You know what I call that? Squirry yet. Oh, that's right. well I don't know. It's not a piper level pun, but it's okay. Welcome back to the land of New York. Well, you're wearing like something very tropical considering you're just in, you were in Chicago, not Hawaii. Do you think you were going to Hawaii? No, I, this is the show I bought the day when we were late after moving. Remember? No, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We were in the process of moving Booker and Dax lab, by the way, up to Connecticut. So, do you have any, we talked about Mark. We talked about, who else did we mention? Christina Tosi. Right. Mike Anthony. Right. Anyone else we know? Winners, friends of the friends of the program? Oh, wait, wait. Wiley got inducted. Oh, yeah. He didn't win. It was a slam dunk. That's just like a lifetime achievement. Still, it's an accolade. Also, Alan Benton? But, I mean, it was like, best bacon is in America. Best bacon is an award? No, no. It was like in America's... It was, it would be salmon. Oh, yeah. it depends what you're using it for, right? Benton's bacon as a culinary bacon, but Sam Edwards is eating bacon. Okay fair enough. And he said, what were you saying? Ben was winning forced us? No, it was like the America, he knew he was winning too. It was like a Wiley kind of award. You know what? Whatever. The only time I ever won something like that, They didn't tell me ahead of time. You know what the worst part of this award was, this program? So in Mark's speech, he thanks sobriety at the end, right? hold on. And then all these other chefs were like, oh, man, I don't think I'm going to drink tonight, man. So I was like, I can't take a bottle of champagne and a straw now because... Well, it wasn't really a party atmosphere anyway with Josh and everything, right? Or was it? Not everyone knew. I've been to situations like that where people are trying to have a festive thing and something really awful has just happened and only some of the people

[24:30] know and it's very tensional. We did have a moment of silence, though, for...

[24:34] because they knew that ahead of... He's from Chicago. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, bad year for food all the way around. Shaw too, for me Gullet was this year, right? I don't know who that is Yeah. Well, good for paying attention to the world staff. He went on after Egola to be one of the founders of Quirky. Oh, the air conditioning company? They're not an air conditioning company. You know what I mean, yeah. Yes. Uh, okay. Next question in from Trudy. said, hey, Dave. Oh yeah, Nastasia. gave her a whole pack of that. I have a whole. She's like, I'm done with the sweet potatoes. done with it. Hiya, Dave, Nastasia, and Jack, and now also Peter and Veronica. This is Veronica, by the way, Nastasia. works with me. Hi, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. I have a high look. This is a good word. I have a hydrocoloid conundrum. I like conundrums. They're good. I've been trying to invent slash create a frozen moose pudding concoction, frozen moose pudding concoction, right? Say that with your say that with your most snoot tootly... Your mouthful of Puebo, man. All right, all right. Puebla. I also need to put my monocle on to do that properly. You don't have your planner's peanut monocle at all times, do you? I usually pack it, but monocle packing. All right. Playing around with a combo of Agar, Xanthan, Poly Dextrose. Silium, which I've never used. I mean, I know what it is, and flax. Basically everything I have on hand. I haven't been, like, that's like a juice bar stuff, right? You're down at the sillian, right? You pay attention to what people do. No, I don't pay attention to it. You just you're the one that tells me all the juice checks. Yeah, I know all the, yeah, but I don't, I don't know. What about you? What are you, Veronica? you juice trend person? you a juice person? I'm a dessert person. Thank goodness. Dessert. Dessert. God bless dessert. You know that a lot of places now are toning down on desserts because their margins aren't as

[26:22] high. Theyd rather flip the tables. Desserts have higher because the ingredients in desserts usually have. You read that article, there's a bunch of articles on this. I didn't, but that's just because I'm not their customer. If I was there, I would order enough desserts to make their margins pretty high. Yeah, well, no, but in other words, like, just like chocolate and cream and stuff. It's just expensive stuff. You know what I mean? A lot more expensive than mashed taters. You what I'm saying? Taters is cheap. I don't know what's prompted that right now. Well, I can walk into a, like, try to make like, uh, whatever. I'm just saying, like, you know, this is why this is why that's like one of the most ubiquitous sides is because it's free. Rice potatoes, beans, all, you know, fundamentally free. I haven't been having much luck, though, since it always comes out slimy. What's your, you hate things that are slimy stars, right? Okra. Oh my god, stars. Remember that okra that we wish? No, it wasn't okra, that slimy. Oh my god, the yam, that Japanese slime yam. What's called? Oh, Tororo. Isn't it start with an M? N? Sticky yam that's like grated, and then it's, yeah, it's... the whole one. It's called like nine. Oh my god. We had the most like HR unfriendly moment in the French culinary where someone had peeled the entire, it's like a 2 foot

[27:38] long... Thallus. There you go. And you peel it and it just self-slimes, like it's made out of personal lubricant. Did you smash it? No, well, we tried holding it. You hit it to moustaches. She squeezed it and shot it across the room and it exploded against the wall. Everyone was like, oh, everyone was like, oh, like that. That's pretty much how it went. Yeah, see you guys next week on... Yeah. Anyway, haven't been having much lefto since it always comes out slimy. This is the problem with this show. This is why, like, we, like aren't nominated. Yeah, because like, I'd say the word slimy, and then for like 3 minutes, we're talking about yams. I got a mental issue. I'm trying to reduce the Xanthan as much as I can, since I think this might be the problem. Well, it is. Xanthe has some slimy. It's not really slimy, it's snotty. Like Xantan is like snot. And also, like, even in like relatively small concentrations. Remember, Xanthe is supposed to be using very small concentrations and relatively small concentrations. It has that, like, jiggly, that, jiggly, like, you know, where, like, you twist, like, a container of it, and the outside starts rotating, but the center stays still for a minute, and then it,

[28:51] like, it, like, has that back motion, that, like, shoulder flick back motion to

[28:55] it. Its milkshake brings all the boys to the yard. And it's not better than yours, which is weird. They come to the yard and they're still like, no, I'll keep, I'll keep the other milkshake that I already have. Anyways, I think the Xanta might be the problem, but I can normally reduce it so far before there's no more thickening effects. See, here's the thing. You shouldn't really use Xanthan as a thickener. You should use Xanthan as a stabilizer, right? Not an emulsifier, but a stabilizer. Well, I'll finish reading your thing before I get it because I had this terrible habit of just going off into tangents. I can't get rid of him. Sorry. This is why, you know, they had me write a book because there you're forced to follow some sort of linear thing. If you go to tangents, at least like there, you can put them in footnotes or something. You know what I mean? Whatever. I also have Agar. Ag god, Ag god. But I'm not sure how to throw that into the mix. I have yet to use any eggs, since I'm trying to keep it vegan, vegan face. What? Uh, stars, you just, you know, I was so happy you made it here, but then you disappointed me with the lack of vegan face. You know what I mean? I want to keep it vegan, if doable. I know this posed problem lacks specifics, but I just want to learn more about what gums will help and which won't, since I'm really fascinated by hydrocollage in general. I've also been wondering about Gorgum. Is this redundant if I already have Xanthan? No, it is not. Um, thing with Guar is, uh, so Guar is very closely related to locust bean gum, but, uh, Guar used to be cheaper. Now that fracking is there, it's not, but bad Guar has a very specific beanie taste, and it tastes like, uh, like, um, not, uh, black-eyed

[30:32] pee flower. You ever had black eyed pe flour? Anyway, there are certain like African dumplings made with black IP flour. And, uh, so I used to have black eyed pee flour around. And it tastes like ground up dried black-eyed peas, right? Which is okay if that's what you want. But not if you don't. Has a distinctive flavor. Yeah, which is unpleasant in ice cream, let's say. So you have to get a higher, more purified form of guar called flavor free guar. And you can get that from a couple places. The one I use is from TIC gums, flavor-free guar, antiweight, 1000 or 4000 or something. It's been a long time since I've had to buy it because it lasts a long time. Uh, Conjak, I haven't used a lot of Conjak, a lot of people use it. I haven't used it a lot. which has got a small amount of, I have yet to test. Gelan. Methocellulose, CMC, gum Arabic, and locust being gum. Will any of these help? So these are like a long list of different hydrocollids. Each has their application here. Which would you prioritize in terms of usefulness in the kitchen? I can't afford all of them, and so I'm looking to equip myself with the best Swiss army knives. Okay. First hydrocolloid that I'd learned to use, 100% inside, outside, upside down is Agar. Why? Because it's super friendly. You can buy it anywhere. Um, and it can do a lot. And so for your situation, you could either do a light set, Agar, right? So you could whip it into a moose with a light set agar and then let it set, right? And it'll set, it'll gel in that moose form, use a small amount of

[31:55] agar, and you can get a really nice texture, like 2%. Uh, sorry, uh, 2%, 2 grams in a, uh, 2 grams per liter of agar. We'll give you a nice, like very easy to break gel that'll just hold that gel there while it's been foamed up after it sets and it sets at a relatively

[32:13] geland probably even better for that. And you could use roughly the same amount because Jalian sets faster than Agar does, but both of them will work. Agar, not free saw stable, which is good. Why? Because when it melts in your mouth, right? The structure of the agar will be obliterated because it's not free sauce stable. So that's good. But, um, then things like guar can stop, uh, when it's frozen, there's still liquids in there, uh, because you haven't fully frozen

[32:39] it, because if you did, it would be hard like a rock, which is not. So things like guar will act as a kind of stabilizer to stop the liquids and solids from separating from themselves. Xanthan will act as also in a similar way to the light Agar would act as a kind of thin geling agent. Don't use enough Xanthan for it to actually be a thickener. Use it like very low percentages, like a quarter of a percent, like 2.5 grams per liter, something

[33:04] like there, just to add a little bit of extra set, like a yield point to the

[33:09] to the thing. What I recommend is this. Go on. I don't agree with everything he says, obviously, but go on Martin Larisch's website, which is Kymos. Download the latest version of his hydrocoloid thing, and then just flip through zillions of

[33:21] his, of the recipes that he crabs from all over the internet and all people and kind of get a feel for what you like, try one or 2 of them, see what you think.

[33:27] I definitely don't agree with all of the with all of it by any standard, but go check that out and obviously check out. There's huge custard and pudding sections in the modernist

[33:38] cuisine and if you don't own it, you know, there are still some reasons for the local library. Did you know that? Yeah, you can, for instance, if you don't own modern cuisine. You can go there and look at it. Yeah, although... I've got a patient caller on the line. Patient caller. are on the air. coming from Los Angeles? Hey, I have a question about piña coladas. Oh, nice. Pi coladas. All right. What do you got? Uh-oh, do we, do we, yeah, how's everything? Coco Lopez, right? Yep. And if I don't want to use that. Let's say I want to like try and make my own at home or add something to like coconut

[34:17] cream, um, I'm wondering what I could add. Like, should I just kind of add the chemicals on the back of the container or is there anything you'd

[34:24] recommend? Yeah, so, by the way, for a while, we thought we'd start calling Nastasia Coco Lopez, but she didn't like it, so we stopped. But the... Yeah. So, okay, the 1st thing you need, obviously, is, um, you're

[34:41] going to need like a very fatty, like a coconut milk product, very fatty, and you're also going to need, so you want it thick, a lot of sugar, and you're going to need a stabilizer. Now, coconut fats in drinks are have, for me, been notoriously difficult to stabilize fully. using like the normal stuff that I normally use, which would be like mixtures of gum Arabic and

[35:07] Xanthan. I haven't looked at the back of a can of coconut cream in a long time, so I'm not sure. What do they use? Do you have one on you? Do you know what they use? So, there's, um, Coconut sugar, water, poly sorbet, 60 sorbet and mono, saturate, um, probably in glycol, alginate, mono, and diglyceride,

[35:29] emulsifier, citric acid, water, gum, locustine gum. Bam. That is quite a list. Wow. Uh, that's hard. That's hardcore. Well, and the reason it's hardcore is because coconut fats are difficult to stabilize

[35:45] in low, especially in low temperature drink applications. I don't think you need to go that hardcore because they don't need to stay emulsified that long. I would, so obviously they're adding an emulsifier. And also a several stabilizers, several emulsifiers and several stabilizers. You could try using what I use, which is just a mixture of gum Arabic and mostly gum Arabic, which you're using as an

[36:11] emulsifier and Xanthan, but it's not going to stabilize fully. How long does it need to stay there? Just for like 20 minutes or like the time it takes. Yeah, I'm gonna have to... So of that list... Some of them need to be cooked and some of them don't, right? And so presumably, if you're going to go through all the trouble, you don't want to cook the hell out of it because you want to have a fresh kind of a flavor, right? Yeah, I would guess. So it's like, uh, huh. It's a tough problem. We had a coconut. I tell you what. At the bar, we finally came up with a recipe for a stabilized

[36:51] coconut like orjot that we used, I'll figure out exactly the ratio as I use. Jack, can you remind me to talk about it on the next program, and I'll just give you the recipe next week on the air. Does that sound good? Yeah. You

[37:06] still have them? Thank you Scott. Anyway. Thanks for that. All right, cool. So we'll get that recipe for you. I'll either tweet it on cooking issues or we'll put it out on the air next week. All righty? All right. Okay. So the other question we had from Trudy was regarding

[37:24] fish bloodlines. I don't have a problem with the taste of the fish bloodline since I actually like the fishiness, but I was wondering what this part of the fish is actually composed of. Is it basically proteins and water? Um, that's what jellified pig's blood consists of when I used to eat at Chinese restaurants. Why do you no longer eat it? Why do you have a different Chinese restaurant? What are your thoughts on the pig blood, Pete? Pete? Peter. I like big blood. Yeah? You like it, a pig blood? Yeah. Yeah. All right. Stash? I don't have I've never had it. Also, a big fan of Boudon Doiro. Yeah, it's good stuff. Totally different though. Yeah, totally different. You know what? I like it when it's got enough. I don't like it when it's so freaking rich. I like it when it's got like enough stuff in it that's not like so rich. Like, when you're just eating, like, a block of just, like, with

[38:11] the bound with the least amount of stuff blush, it's too much for me. Yeah, so actually there's, uh, I think it's Hungarian, they make the a version of the blood sausage with rice in it, right? It just helps to sort of cut it and make it nice rich. It's good. Yeah, it's outside. What about Miami? Got a lot of blood sausage down there in Miami? I don't know if we do, but I definitely haven't had it. can't speak for my people. Nah, in the North Miami. The North Miami, they don't have. She's from Miami, by the way. I have a friend from somewhere. Strong, strong words. That style is trying to be nice people. Oh, yeah. Miami, right? Okay. Is there anything in it that is bad for my dad who has heart health issues? Um, okay. Well, let me get to it. So what you should do is, I

[38:58] will just read this to you. You can find it. It's called Fish and Seafood, Composition and Nutritional Aspects, uh, in the document Seafood Product Teachers Research Guide by Jacqueline Wheeler. It's available as a PDF on the University of Rhode Island's website. And by the way, what we're talking about, we're talking bloodline. I'm assuming we're talking the same thing. We're not actually talking about blood. So when you're talking about clearing the actual blood out of a fish, you're talking about, oh my god, by the way, don't let me forget, if I have time. Shad, Shad season. Does anyone out there, does anyone out there know how to bone a shad? There's an old there's an let me finish this. So remind me. You guys are... Peter, you're the worst. I love you in the way that you're the worst. Anyway, so I'm going to just read you this page, Trudy. Fish muscle, we're talking about the muscle that's along the outside of the fish, and that's basically kind of a fat storage mechanism for fish, especially ones that swim hard.

[39:55] So white fish, fish that have less of that bloodline along the side of them tend to store almost all of their fat in their liver, whereas fish that have a

[40:02] larger, what they call bloodline on the side tend to store a lot of stuff there. So it's different compositions, not actually blood. But so, and so here I will quote from, uh, I'll quote from section 7 A, Dark Muscle and white muscle. Fish muscle does not have a uniform color. This is my reading voice. Nice. Yeah. Some muscles are white. Well, others have a reddish or brown color. This dark color is usually observed just under the skin. The proportion of dark to white muscle differs continuously from head to tail. The portion also varies between species, increasing with the swimming activity of the fish and sometimes approaching 48% of the body weight. There are often differences in the chemical composition of dark and white muscles with respect to protein and lipid contents. The dark muscle has greater concentrations of hemoglobin and myoglobin than the white muscle. The presence of dark muscle is related to the activity of the fish. Those fish that swim continuously throughout their lives usually have a larger proportion of dark muscle than those who often rest on the sea bottom. It appears that white muscle controls short spurts and darting movements, while dark muscle is used for slow, continuous movement. When freezing fish, their dark muscle is sometimes removed in order to prolong the storage life of the fish. The dark muscle spoils faster because it contains hematin

[41:17] compounds which can act as pro oxidants. It has been observed that dark muscle oxidizes 100 times faster than white muscle. Therefore, consumers should be careful not to store dark muscle fish for long periods, since adverse flavor changes may occur due to oxidation. This is how you put your kids to bed. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, that's awesome. I didn't know that, man. interesting. Yeah, see, and sometimes, like, rather than just paraphrasing, better just to read the damn thing. Yeah, of course. I mean, that was just a, that was a really well written, tightly packed chunk of knowledge there. Right? And she finishes up on another note, I want to thank you for your podcast. It's officially my favorite thing to listen to right now. Man, it's gratifying, but also I'm horrified that like there's nothing better than us. Yeah, right? What a world we live in. Yeah, what a world, what a world. For those of you that watch Wizard of Oz a lot. is my favorite thing to listen to right now is going through a stressful time in life when I 1st discover you, so you really

[42:12] helped me pull through it all. Well, thank you very much. Unfortunately, I only recently discovered you, so I'm still at the 2012 episodes and going through them chronologically. Wow. So hopefully my question isn't an old one you've already tackled and hopefully I'll catch the answer in time. Okay, so we got time, right? We got any time? Yep, 2 minutes. Go. I have more questions than I can get to. Let me see. I got I got 2 left. I'll hit some Vegetti. Okay. Did I answer enough real cooking questions? Can I hit some vagetta on the way out? Yeah, go for it. All right. So I'm going to get Joel, next time I'm going to get your oil question and oh,

[42:50] Monty, Monty from Jacksonville, Oregon wrote in. He was asking about Douglas Fir tips. Remember, I told you whether you should use the new tips or the old things. And I said I was going to test hemlock over the weekend. I didn't have an opportunity to, but he tested it and he says, old, old, uh,

[43:06] Doug fur needles, bitter, nasty brew, young ones, sweet, citrusy, uh, delicious brew.

[43:13] So that was his, he answered his own question, so that gave me some, which is a shame because I have a bunch of research here to mention about it, but I

[43:19] didn't. And we're going to get to Ellie on the next one on his

[43:25] corn and oil cocktails. So we will just talk about some Brandon wrote in. Hey, Hammer, Dave, Jackie molecules at all. After following the Vegeti Chronicles of the past few weeks, I thought I'd send you my thoughts on spiralized vegetables, which is, by the way, the technical term. spiralized vegetables. Though I don't have a veggetti. Well, I should think not. You're a dude. I'm kidding. Going back to the double entendre. There's big there's big debates. among our listeners over when she realized, when she realized what was going on. And some people say never, some people say like 3 quarters of the way through. Some people say that she knew at the start. anyway. She didn't, didn't well learn. Though I don't have a veggetti, I do have the perderno spiralizer. And by the way, that's the one that's kind of the Japanese style one that looks like, uh, it's like on a slide and you can do that. I actually have one of those two, but I have it set up to do, um, sheets, like spiral sheets, and that's how I do potatoes for pizza. So potatoes for pizza. I don't want them in little strippy doodles. Like, I don't want them, you know, spiralized. I want like those thin, curly sheets, very thin, almost like potato chip thickness, thin potato, like lay style potato chip thickness, but like in long, long

[44:40] spirals, and you just toss those salt, pepper, oil. And then those on a pizza cook up just the right amount. Do you like thick pizza? Do you like thick potato on a pizza or thin? I don't like potato. What? You don't like you don't like Sullivan streets, potato. Yeah, I don't get that one. Peter, what do you like? I like potato and pizza. But thick or thin? Oh, both ways, man. I'm not a huge fan of the mashed potato because it weighs it down too much. It's leaden. The thing I like about a thin potato is that it's like thin. It doesn't weigh down the crust. I mean, when I've made pizza at home, I don't do like potato tip thin, but I'll go on

[45:18] like, uh, you know, He's holding his hands up. You're on radio. I know, I know. But I don't know, like, that's what, like a millimeter? Yeah, how do they do it in North Miami? How do you like your potato pizza in North Miami? Never had potato pizza. This is new to me. Yeah. Hey, Dave. All right, all right, all right. I mean, all right. Oh my god. So this is too long. All right, Bran, I'm gonna get back. We talk more about spiralized vegetables. will start with it next week. Cookie issues. Thanks for listening to this program on Heritage Radio Network.org. You can find all of our archived programs on our website or as podcasts in the iTunes store by searching Heritage Radio Network. You can like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter at Heritage underscore radio. You can email us with questions anytime at info at heritageradionetwork.org. Heritage Radio Network is a 501c3 nonprofit. To donate and become a member, visit our website today. Thanks for listening.