[0:00] Today's program is brought to you by Heritage Foods USA, the nation's largest distributor of

[0:05] Heritage Breed Pigs and Turkeys. For more information, visit heritagefoodsusa.com. I'm Damon Bolte, host of the Speakeasy. You're listening to Heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick, Brooklyn. If you like this program, visit heritageradionetwork.org for a thousand...

[0:30] Hello and welcome to Cooking Agents. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking. You just coming to you live from Roberto's Pizzeria in Bushwick, Brooklyn, on the Heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from about 12 to about

[0:40] 1245. Joined as usual, Witness Dossier, the Hammer Lopez. How you doing, Stas? Yeah, got Jack in the engineering booth. Hello. I'm slow. Hey, what's up? And we have Michael and Andrea, who are here joining us in the studio today because what do you guys do? What was it? Michael, right? Andrea, right? I got this right here. If you hear it, you got it, you got to join in. So what did you guys tell us how you arrived here? We put in a bid for to come here and watch you guys at a rocking the boat, at a charity auction to help support rocking the boat, which is a Bronx

[1:09] space organization where they teach inner city kids about sailing and boat building. help them build out their, you know, confidence and uh, team building skills. Where do you sail to? Well, they, from what I know, they say I'll just basically up there up. I'm trying to think what the waterway is that they're actually in up in the South Bronx, but I know they build the boats out of their boathouse and they launch their boats and sail in that in that bodily water out there, but the 2 of us are actually

[1:33] sailors as well. We see a lot of another club out in New York City. Because I know there's a lot of crazy currents up by like Spite and Duable, right? Is that the old, like, legend up there at the tip of Manhattan that, you know, that guy tried to row across there and got stuck down in the current and eaten by a fish and he was

[1:48] going to do it in spite of the devil? I mean, it's not exactly, you know, where the Hudson and the East River come

[1:52] together if they're not exactly the most. Yeah, not the most friendly of places to be boating around for those who are just learning, right? Yeah, well, the interesting thing is they also have another fundraiser where they row around Manhattan in these old style whaling rowboats. So they have crews that decide to join up and there's 3

[2:10] legs and for each leg you have to raise like X amount of money, but they're out there and they're just rowing constantly all day long. And it's a really good time and it's a really great organization. Yeah, you know, I've never been out on the other than on the freaking circle line. The last time I was in the circle line, the captain in quotes, the guy who was talking, was like unbelievably drunk and spewed nothing but lies and misinformation about New York City. But I need to go back out there because I hear you can get some unbelievable

[2:36] stripers, right in the East River, that there's like a couple channels running up the East River where you can get some great, like great stripers, like right near Roosevelt's Island. It's possible? I know the guys I know that's that fish out of Staten Island, sheep said. They definitely love going fishing for stripers out in the waters there. I don't know about the East River, but maybe the old guys that are along the east river, but they're fishing pole. that's what they're looking for. Look, there's so many people here in freaking New York City. anyone who actually knows where there's going to be a big striper in the East River is not going to say a dang thing about it. No, no. I mean, come on. It's like mushroom hunting, right? It's like no one's going to tell you where the good mushrooms are. They tell you, hey, the good mushrooms are the top of the Empire State Building. because they don't want you to eat. There's 8000000 of us and there's only so many mushrooms. Anyways, same with stripers. Jack, I hear we got a call around the air. That's true Color, you are on the air. Hello, Dave. Nastasia, Jack, guest. It's, uh, Antoine from Boca Richland, Florida. Yeah. How you doing? Hopefully you're not back on juices and vegetables. I mean, I like to mix it up. This is just to hit the niche, the niche group of people, you know? So what's up? do you got for us today? Today's questions are, um, is there any benefit to ever using bleached

[3:47] flour, and is there any disadvantages, milling your own? Huh. Well, uh, now look, so everyone that's ever done, I have not done the side by side myself, but for anyone that's ever, uh, done the side by side on cake flour versus not cake

[4:05] flour, for cake applications, everyone always says the cake flour is better and cake flour, I mean, I guess there's brands that aren't, but the ones that we use, like

[4:15] swans down and the other ones, what's the other one? Styles? you remember? You don't like cakes. to make them. She eats them. I want to hear anything. Uh, no one call and say she doesn't like cakes. I mean, she doesn't like many, like she doesn't like biscuits, but she likes cakes. She doesn't like to make it, right? Right. Yeah. They're all bleached. And so I don't know whether the, I don't know whether the bleaching per se does anything. I had once researched it. Um, but I don't kind of remember the bleaching. Remember also oxidizes, it changes the properties of it, but I'd have to go back and do, I'd have to go back and redo the research to figure out exactly kind of what I

[4:52] thought. What are you thinking about? Uh, I mean, I just want to, I'm gonna, I'm thinking of going in the investment of buying a stone ground mill, and I just want to see if I can generally apply it to pretty much a little bit of everything I'm going to be doing.

[5:07] I mean, even I, I, I don't know, but I mean, I imagine I could probably do, uh, cornflower on there to do tortillas,

[5:15] imagining. No, no, no. No. no? No, no, no, no, look, what I want to, I want to get, look, there's a bunch of research on I recently did a bunch of research on grinding because I was, when I was going to Mexico, I was going to get the

[5:28] Knicks domatic grinder for doing Masa. And uh, all of the kind of high-end uh, flour mills here, the stone ones. what are you looking at? You looking at like a red cell, or are you looking at like which company are you looking at? I don't remember the name of it. It's one that I've seen Dan Barber also uses this place that it's just, it's automatic. Yeah, and it's like around $400 or so. Yeah, I forget all the prices. There's a bunch of different ranges and uh, so none of those are designed to do wet milling of masa. So, just don't even, there's a one or 2 that will maybe sell you a stone that's designed to do masa, but you think you're much better off getting, if you're going to do masa, is getting like one that's made for it. You know what I mean? But they're supposedly fantastic at flour milling, and I didn't get a chance to read the kind of super technical stuff on it. But the, um, a lot of people are bent out of shape because most of the stones now are composite stones made from

[6:28] aluminum oxide. And so like some people are anti-aluminum oxide because of the old, you know, kind of the old, now

[6:35] discredited Alzheimer's theories about aluminum. So people got freaky deaky about having aluminum oxide grinding wheels. But that said, I think 99.9%. unless they're going and buying like French stone cutting it and like doing it. They're all composite stones that are being made by Abraises corporations. Now, you know, again, like it's been a while since I've researched it, but you know, look into that. But, uh, you know, the research that I saw shows that there's a kind of a different kind of a shearing effect that happens in some of these kind

[7:07] of, um, old stone grinders, but I've never done a side by side with an equivalently

[7:12] dressed, uh, stone grinder versus an, you know, equivalently sized uh, metal one. So I don't have any way of saying, but most of the jockeys who do it, they like their stone grinders.

[7:24] The other thing is that now there's relatively inexpensive kind of, you know, like bursting grain, like micronizing grills that use like intermeshed teeth that can supposedly do a very good

[7:37] job as well. But, I mean, and again, I haven't looked at the, at the, you know, micrographs, pictures of the flour milled in the different ways, but I assume they're probably different. Yeah, because I was thinking of whether I wanted to get the stone grown one or just the KitchenAid attachment. I don't like the kitchen aid. I mean, I love the KitchenAid, but I hate the, I hate the, it's going to be nothing but disappointment to you. Unless you're just making beer, in which case it does a fantastic job of like, you know, crushing up barley to make beer with. Like, making flour with the kitchen age. It just going to be a source of frustration. It heats the flour up like a monster. It clogs if you put anything oily into it. It doesn't have a very high throughput. It's loud. It's like, I, I, there's just, I bought it thinking it was going to change my life years and years ago and it just sits in my drawer making me angry. All right. Thanks for that. I mean, that hurts saving me some money. for sure. Yeah, I mean, look, maybe they've redesigned it. I don't know. And I don't no offense to the KitchenAid Corporation, because I'd love it if they gave us some free mixers, right? Stas? Couldn't you use a KitchenAid? Yeah, well, me, me, me. You could use another new ones, the big ones. You know what I really want from them? I want their I want the pasta, not the extruder, which doesn't work. I want the rollers because this way I don't have to bolt down the pasta roller, but they charge

[8:50] like, it's over a 100 bucks for the roller, just for the roller. Does that seem to make any sense to you? Hunt over 100 bucks for the roller? Seems high. Anyways. Uh, I would wait and invest your money in a real standalone uh, grinder that's going to do uh, a good job for you. And I wouldn't believe a lot of the hype. It's hard to cut through the hype on the, on the grain mills because most of the, uh, a lot of the, I'm

[9:15] not going to say most, a lot of the grain mills review sites are like doomsday preppers and or, um, like, you know, people with uh, dubious kind of health and diet beliefs.

[9:26] And so, uh, it's hard to kind of sift fact from fantasy and some of the claims that are made

[9:33] about them. So it, that's one of the reasons why it's difficult. So I would go mainly on build quality and what people say about the quality of the breads they can make with the flowers that they

[9:43] do. And go back. You'll be able to grind corn fine, just not masa for tortillas. Gotcha. Otherwise, I'd have to go the hand route, I guess. Yeah, no. Now, listen. So like I was talking to Jorge Masienda, because I made another batch of tortillas actually over the weekend. This time I cooked them in the tandor, and my grinder, my next stomatic is wearing in. So it's actually producing every time I make Masa with it, it gets a little bit a little bit better. But what he was saying is, is that even if you have a substandard masa grinder, then if you go and manually work it on a matate afterwards, it can like bring it up to the level of excellent masa, even

[10:22] though so you have to use kind of a two-step technique. He even said that maybe if you had a big moco jete that you could probably like work the

[10:28] masa in a moco jete a little bit to get that kind of extra textural thing. He said he knows some people that have done that with good results. But I'm still working on getting my just my next pneumatic grinder, you know, producing exactly what I want. By the way, sorry, but I just don't want to leave without saying it, but like certain mills are known for doing better with certain products.

[10:49] So certain mills are known for like, you know, having the stones glaze over, if you put certain grain products through them versus others. So I would like try to figure out what you want to do most and then find reviews from people who do that with it all day. Excellent. I didn't know if there was like one that was all purpose across the board that you could use for all of them. Again, it's been a while. I kind of want, uh, I think it's Red Cell as the company, but they're like kind of nut jobs, like, kind of like me, you can't get in touch with them. You know what I mean? And they make grinders whenever they feel like it and they ship it whenever they feel like it and they have like some hand crank ones and some, a lot of people want hand crank ones because they still want to be able to bake bread when the world is over,

[11:29] right? So, uh, so like, you know, but presumingly, you know, uh, Florida's going to be a tough place to live if

[11:36] the, if the world ends because, you know, like probably we'll be flooded there anyway. So you might want to say, I'm going to assume that I have electricity. It might be an assumption that you're going to make. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Very good. I also wonder, though, what are your feelings and thoughts on people starting to eat insects or that little

[11:55] trend coming out? I think if you think they're delicious, you should eat whatever you want. I've never had an insect where I was like, damn, that was delicious. You know what I mean? It's like, grasshoppers are crunchy, uh, but they're not delicious. You know what I mean? And like the legs get kind of caught in your in your teeth. I had the ant eggs. Those are quite good. You know what I mean? In Mexico. I brought home some of the ants. I shouldn't say this because it's illegal, but I brought home some of the ant like bodies for Booker because and he liked them. But I think if something is delicious, then eat it, but, you know, and most things that aren't are like fads that end up going away anyway. It's like most people don't actually like absinthe, which is why, like, the trend went crazy for a while when people thought they were going to get all impressionistic, messed up, like,

[12:41] to loosely trekked out on the green, you know, fairy or whatever. It's called. And then when they realize that, you know, it's mainly the alcohol that's messing you up. They're like, wow, I don't like absinthe. Why am I drinking it? You know, and then it and then the consumption level dropped down back to those people who like it, you know? Yeah. All right, very good. Thank you as always. Super beneficial information. I'll be talking to you later. Yeah, tweet on in and when you decide to buy a flower mill, let us know how it worked out. You get it, you got it, man. All right, cool. I got the police on the line about ant legs. Well, it was the, it was the, uh, you know, it was the back end of the ants.

[13:17] and there were these six. I couldn't speak the Spanish. There are these fancy, I think they're Oaxacan ants, and I'll look it up. I'll look at it. look it up. I'll look it up. But, yeah, you're not supposed to bring ants back into the country. I said I brought candy back, which is kind of true. Snacks for the kids. They're dry. They're dead. They're not gonna, they're not gonna, like, you know, it's, like, I'm not gonna cause the next Asian longhorn beetle infestation. These suckers are dead as doornails, like dried, desiccated in a sack. You know what I mean? Uh, stars. You like the grasshoppers? haven't had them yet. No? What about you guys? You guys eating the grasshoppers? I've never had any of the bugs. No? I've eaten agave worm, but I don't remember it. It's like, I'm not like, not because I was too drunk, but I'm saying it doesn't have much of a flavor. You know what I mean? Like these things, it's an extra source of protein, right? Yeah, you're really supposed to chew. You're just supposed to swallow them once they go. Yeah, I think you're supposed to bite it in half to prove that you know that it's in your mouth rather than just letting it wash down, I think. I don't know. I haven't had one of those since I was in college. You know? I just know they're no good. Jack, what about you? You an insect eater? Yeah, I'm done with it. I mean, I've had like the cricket bars, like those protein bar kind of things. I even had cricket bitters in an event. Yeah, I had the bars once, but they're just flour. It like cricket flowers. Right, exactly. I don't think that they're, I mean, like, I wasn't like, you know what? When you're cooking something, like, you know what this needs? This needs a pinch of cricket flower. You know what I mean? does that come up? Not for me. I have another caller. Caller, you were on the air. Fantastic, Dave, big fan. So I have a constrained cooking challenge, which is going to be at a beach house and can't bring much lard with

[15:04] me, apart from, you know, the few powdered collections I have, looking for something interesting to make, uh, for

[15:10] crowd, uh, other than just, you know, the modernist cheese dip to show that I can do a better cheese dip than what comes in a jar. Right. Curious, if you have any fun thoughts, uh, apart, and I have got the frozen fruit from liquid intelligence, but uh, any other ideas? Hmm, that's a good one. To whip out it. Well, what are the parameters? Like what, 1st of all, do you have a particular course that you're doing or is

[15:33] there... No, just one night, I've traditionally been, uh, you know, one of the better cooks in this social circle and like to have a lot of fun, uh, brought down circulators in the past, but, uh, and, you know, the sears all, but uh, can't do that this year. Um, but, uh, I was thinking of doing, you know, doing a jury rigged rotisserie over a beach

[15:55] fire, um, but, you know, that's, that's fun, but, uh, Not particularly flashy. I was curious if you have any fun thoughts. Well, I usually, I usually, when I'm going to go to an event, I know I can't bring my equipment. I'll cheat and I'll cook everything ahead of time, bring it, and then just do the finishing there, right? So I'll do all my low temping back at the house, seal the stuff down in ice packs, bring it, throw it in the fridge, and then you look like, you look like some sort of like, like, you know,

[16:26] genius because everyone else is working and doing all this stuff and you're like, don't worry, you know, I'm going to start cooking like about 30 minutes before, it depends also on like, what do you mean by

[16:35] flashy? Flashy, you should bring some liquid nitrogen. Now, I know you said you can't, but like if you're liquid nitrogen at a beach party, you know, as long as you follow the safety regulations, that's like pretty much a

[16:45] win. You know what I mean? Depending on how hot it is out there. Um, you know? So we could find a welding supply place nearby. And so, you know, it's a schlept down for a week on the beach, so I can't, uh, can't really pre-cook too much. Oh, yeah. Um, but, uh, I like to do funny welding supply place and just, uh, you know, renting endures. Yeah, here's something, don't do this, but I've always wanted to. Don't do this. Don't. I don't want to hear anyone saying that they've done this. But have you guys ever gone on the YouTube and looked at the videos of the engineering professor guy who starts his grills with liquid

[17:23] oxygen? Anyone? Now have you guys seen this? That sounds awesome. Oh my god, you have to see the video. So what he did was he took this hibachi, like grill. Like, we know one of the round, flat ones, sticks it on the ground, puts a mound of coal, like the size of like a

[17:39] whole, small, like Kingsford bag. Then he puts like a lit, like, I think it's like something like a lit stick or cigarette on top of it and then dumps liquid oxygen onto it and goes, whoosh. And the whole thing is like the entire grill is melted, and there's a small pile of perfectly ready coals left on the ground in like under 5 seconds.

[18:02] Talk about flashy. You know what I mean? And like, that's someone where you're like, you know, right at the end, you're, you know, you're, you're, you know, cooking. That's like the good way to go. Well, speaking though, but I've been doing a lot of high heat work recently because I've been working a lot with the

[18:17] tandor. And really, really good results with the tandor for kind of outdoor fast heat cooking.

[18:25] It's hard to mimic in a regular grill because you can't get the heat from kind

[18:30] of, um, uh, both sides at once. But what I what I'm learning on a tandor, when when you can't do the low temp stuff, is the wisdom of super

[18:40] high but intermittent heat, right? So when you're cooking food in a tandor, uh, meats, you go in there for like three, 4

[18:51] minutes, and it's like 800 degrees from all sides, and then you'll pull it out and you'll hang it and you'll let the meat cool off a little bit. And then you'll do that like two, 3 times, and it builds up the crust, right? the same way that a rotisserie might, but it doesn't overcook the inside. Of course, remember also with tandor, you're usually doing some sort of surface tenderization with yogurt or acid or beating the crap out of it, which is another

[19:14] time on or tenderization technique. But I'm learning the wisdom of this kind of multiple cooking and hanging. So remember everything in a tandor happens on these kind of skewers. And so they'll go in, they'll come out, they'll hang, I'll cook other stuff that can sit around longer,

[19:29] and then I'll put them back, but it requires like relatively high heat. So you can need a very big bed of coals like close to your grate. Cool. Is there anything you can do on an open fire on a beach that you can't do on a regular grill?

[19:43] Well, clam, clam, clam bake, you're supposed to build the fire in the ground, then line it with... Now, that is super baller. Like, if, like, if you do an old school, do you guys do old school clam blakes? I'm talking to the guys in the studio. you guys done it? Oh, no. I grew up in New England, so it's sort of standard protocol. Fourth of July weekend. You do a clam bake. But here's the thing, everything's viciously overcooked, am I right? Yeah, but it's still flash. Yeah, it is flat, but like the idea that you bury everything. But how much seaweed do you have to put over the top to not have it be a problem with sand and crap getting in your

[20:13] stuff? Or do they cheat? Have you ever seen someone do it old school? Seaweed and burlap. Seaweed and burlap? Yeah. And, and, what do you, you, corn, lobsters, clams. Like, how do you what do you put in yours? Yeah, sausage, corn, potatoes, clams, lobsters. I think that's it. And the lobsters aren't just like so way overdone. I'm sure the corn is delicious. I'm sure the corn, the potatoes and the sausages are good. And the rest is kind of there for show. But like burying something, yeah, burying something like that is pretty is pretty awesome, I would say. A lot of digging. And a long time. Well, and also how far up above the waterline. You don't put it in wet sand. It's got to be way up there and that stuff doesn't hold a, like you can't. You're above the tideline. Yeah, and how do you get the sand to go out of the way? The dump angle of sand is pretty low. lot of digging. A lot of digging. Get a backhoe. Oh my god. Backhoe, clam big. Oh my god. Imagine that. I want to do that. In Connecticut, I'm talking to someone, if we ever get something, we're going to do, we're going to dig huge pits in the ground to do big pit cook stuff. But anyway, pit cooking is good. If you can bring a thermometer, they can get down in the pit. you could probably measure it. You could probably even pull something when it's done, but usually they're done on retained. I think the problem with clam baked cooking is most people don't wait long enough to layer this stuff

[21:28] in and they're dealing with too high or retained heat. If you were to judge it just right with a retained heat cooking by using the earth as your oven. I'm sure you could do it without overcooking because you'd put the stuff in kind of right at the point where it wasn't going to cook anymore. You just let it ride for a long time. So you throw your sausages in early, along with your corn and your potatoes. You'd wait, right? Then you'd kind of unearth, throw in your seafood on top. It would cook, the juices would go down into your potatoes and whatnot, and you'd be good to go. But I don't think anyone's written the definitive book on how to make a clam bake that doesn't overcook the food viciously.

[22:00] This could be your next project. Yeah. Stas and Stas, it's putting her, don't do that kind of like, she's looking at something else, but if I actually said to her, I was gonna, that we were

[22:09] going to spend the next 3 weeks working on clam bake, she would probably, you might like

[22:13] it actually. More than what we're supposed to be doing. beach, yeah, not at your house. Well, you know, I hate beaches is the problem. But I don't hate them. I love looking at them from a deck. You know what I mean? I don't like the feeling of sand between my feet. I hate it. My booker loves to hug me when he's full of sand on the beach, which is a nightmare. And as I said many times on the air, I'm that guy at the beach with the long pants, the

[22:38] big wide brimmed hat and the long shirt, that's me. If you ever see that guy, that's me. Yeah. Look at me. White. Anyway, hopefully that helps. Oh, yeah, did any of this information help? Are you still there? I'm still there? That was great. All right, cool. Let us know what happened. Let us know what you did. I love to hear this stuff. Tweeted on over. All right, I'll call in. All right, Jack, you want to take commercial break? sounds good. We'll come right back with more cooking issues.

[23:16] Hello out there. It's Steve Jenkins. I'm with Fairway Markets. White Leghorn, Red Wattle, Bourbon Red, Navajo Churro. Wow, these aren't names you're likely to hear at a fairway butcher counter or any other counter today, but before the rise of factory

[23:37] farming, you would have. And at Heritage Foods USA, you still do. Heritage Foods USA exists to promote genetic diversity. Small family farms. and a fully traceable food supply. You see, we believe the best way to help a family farmer is to buy from them, and heritage foods is honored to represent a network of family farmers, artisanal

[24:00] producers whose work presents an immeasurable gift to our food system, and to biodiversity. The meat we celebrate, whether it's heritage turkey, Japanese steaks, Berkshire pork, or Navajo churro lamb chops is the righteous kind, from healthy animals, of sound genetics that have been treated

[24:18] humanely, and allowed to pursue their natural instincts. It's a simple fact. Animals raised according to this philosophy taste better. And as we like to say, you have to eat them to save them. visit us at heritagefoodsusa.com for more information. Wait, Jack, I wasn't listening to the beginning. Is that Steve Jenkins? Steve Jenkins. And who do we figure out he sounds like? Like a mix between Alec Baldwin and someone else? He's got a little Baldwin in him. It's like Baldwin mixed with like, it's like Baldwin mixed with Costanza, right? Damn good voice, isn't it? Yeah, it's like a Costanza Baldwin. Yeah, that's Steve Jenkins is from Steve Jenkins from Fairway doing a heritage foods ad. So that's kind of confusing. So at the beginning of the outset, you say the heritage foods is the largest purveyor of turkeys and what was the other one? Turkeys and in the in the promo? But not goats. You guys aren't the largest heritage goat goat seller. Sorry, I have to check on that. Yeah, it's like, I was like, you know, I was like, sell some mean goat, though. Yeah. No goat left behind, right? I once delivered a whole goat in the back of my trunk to a customer.

[25:28] was great. Yeah? How that, like, was it, uh, we won't say that you did that because I'm sure you didn't have a reefer truck. I had a dream once that we did that. Yeah. It was a cool dream. All the street meat guys were giving me a lot of funny looks. You know where I learned the term reefer truck from? Convoy song, convoy song, greatest song ever. Convoy. Stas. You don't even like convoy, right? You hate you hate songs that have stories in them. Styles hate story songs. She doesn't like the gambler. You have a lot of questions you need to answer. Oh, you see what I'm saying? She doesn't want to even deal with it. Before go on, so we're saying, uh, the question was in the in the studio here was, like, I didn't really talk about the the person called before, I was interested in rotisseries, and we didn't talk about the rotisserie. I was just thinking that a rotisserie at the beach might be kind of a pain to set up, if you don't, if you're not going to bring a circulator, what are the odds

[26:16] you going to bring a rotisserie? And the point is you could crank it by hand, right? And Nastasia here said that you made a hand crank rotisserie once. What do you cook? Chicken. Chick. Well chicken doesn't take that long, right? How was it? No, it was like whole chickens, like 30 little chicken. Like a bunch? And who actually turned it? You turned it or you made Phil turn it? No, this is back in a better place with lots of boys. To turn it? Oh, wait, in Switzerland? you made your campers do it? Stas used to be a camp counselor in Switzerland. What? Okay, yeah, it was good chicken. Another thing you could do, if you don't want to turn it, is you could go the vertical vertical rotisserie where you hang it from a string and then you just like kick it every once in a while. Dont actually kick it with your feet, like poke it with a stick. But then it just automatically rotates and but it's vertical. You like the vertical rotisserie? No? But you've seen it like on streets. Like, that's how, like... Oh, you mean like, yeah. Yeah, it works. Right? You weren't with me in Mexico, right? Mexico, this one place that was making the, like, the really, like, the, the high-end Pasteur, the place that Jordana and Alex Dupac, who are, you know, writing a book on tacos or wrote a book on tacos,

[27:18] actually not out yet. This is the place they said to go. It's like a gas station or a mechanic shop during the day and at night it's like an al pastor shop. Those guys, they had flames shooting out of their rotisserie hitting the meat. And by the way, the way they do the El Pestor there. It's not like some chummed up meat, like, you know, like a donor is. It's like flaps of meat that are stacked all around on the thing. And they had such a high heat coming out that they had a really good crispiness going on. But I realized they can only accomplish that because they make 8000000000 of these dang

[27:49] things, so they can keep it on real high and they just keep going all the time and it's perfect. I was wondering whether he had like a Wawa pedal for the flame, which would be kind of awesome, right? Then you could like DY, you know, with the flame. That's what I kind of wanted to build. Anyway. All right. Sty says I should get to some of these questions. Yes? Yes. Okay. Um, this in from BJD. Please say hello to Jack, Jack. Hello. Hello. Hello. Um, wait. This is in the middle of the question. Somehow I missed half the question. It just says, it starts with also. The question starts with... Maybe that's how he started. That's how he started. Also. Usually not. Anyway. Also, the liquid that leeches from the meat I cook in my circulator, if I'm not using it to make a pan sauce, is it safe to pour over dog food for my dog,

[28:37] well, let it cool first. But yes, of course. That's it how he started it. Yeah, also, by the way, my dog, super freaking picky, will not eat the dry food unless there's wet food

[28:47] out now. I thought dogs were supposed to eat anything. That's what dogs do. eat any damn thing. Won't eat the dry food. Just managed to show how bad that dry food probably tastes. I've never tried it. Sure, it's terrible. Additionally, not related. If I'm doing chicken, low temperature for insurance. By the way, before frying, can I bag it with the buttermilk, brine? brine bagged or not, what time attempt should I go with for squeamish folk? Okay, so, um, here's the thing. Yes, you can bag a chicken with a buttermilk brine and cook it. Just realize this. If you leave it in contact with the buttermilk for a long time. It's gonna get soft. The whole portion. The whole point of buttermilk brine is to soften the meat fibers with the acidity. So I don't actually do buttermilk brines because I find that low temperature plus buttermilk makes the stuff too soft in my taste.

[29:42] I've tried it And to me, it's like a little bit mushy. especially if you're vacuum bagging it and you're actually injecting the buttermilk into the fibers of the

[29:51] chicken. It's much more effective at delivering that acid into the inner parts of the chicken

[29:58] and just simple soaking alone. And so, you know, I just don't, it's not my thing. I do a milk brine, milk, salt,

[30:07] water, and I don't know if it makes it any better. It's just for years, I've always done my brine as a straight milk, not as a buttermilk, and my batter is always buttermilk. I've always done it that way. Um, so anyway, so yes, you can do it. Um, but just expect it to be a little bit uh, mushy. What I, and by the way, for those of you that don't know, low temperature for insurance is where you take something like chicken and you cook it all the way through in a circulator, then you let it

[30:31] cool, and then you fry it like it's normal or cook it like it's normal. And the reason to do this is because let's say you're making,

[30:39] when you're making chicken, I used to have to put in the large pieces of chicken 1st at the fryer at a low temperature, raise the

[30:46] temperature of the fryer, do the smaller pieces of chicken, then raise the temperature of the fryer

[30:51] again and then do French fries, right? Or onion rings, right? But if you're doing low temperature for insurance, all of the meat's already cooked through all the

[30:59] way. So you can just cook, you know, everything from the largest breast down to the French fries, all in the same temperature of oil. So it just makes it much more convenient because you can go back and forth between products without having

[31:14] to like, you know, keep adjusting your fryer to different temperatures or adjusting your oil to different temperatures.

[31:18] So it's a great technique for stuff like that. And you can just focus on getting the breading kind of the way you want it. Here are some tips. For leg meat. If you're going to bag it, I would bone all of the leg

[31:31] meat, especially because you're going to get pink around the bone, that you're not going to be able to cook away and no one's going to like it. So I usually bone out meat if I'm going to bag it. If you're not gonna bag it, if you're just gonna ziploc it, then you don't necessarily need to bone it out. But I would go on the high side. So I would go like 60, like 6 Celsius, right? Something like there. Um, even though the meat is cooked, tasting and looking around like 64, 65, I would go 66, 67. It's not going to dry out because it's dark meat, right? And especially if it's brined, it's not going to dry out, and it's going to get some of that color gone. that's gonna freak people out. On the white meat. I go straight 64 If people are going to be a little bit squeamish, you could do a 65 but don't go above 65 on the white meat. So here's how I usually do it. I throw the dark meat in at the high temperature in a bag. I bag them separately. I throw the dark meat in at the high temperature. I let that go. I keep everything fairly small. I let that go for about 45 minutes. to an hour. The temperature soaks through, then I drop down to my white meat temperature. I throw the white meat in. I let it ride out for another 45 minutes or so. Depends on the thickness of your product and how keep them separated. pull it out. Then I unbag them immediately and let the, uh, let it drain while it's hot so that you get rid of the moisture that's on the surface of the chicken skin, then the chicken skin can get tacky,

[33:02] uh, and then it holds onto your uh, breading better. So that's the way I do it. A lot of people who let it cool in the bag. or they let it sit in the bag and they pull it out when it's cooler. They find that using the pre-cook for insurance means that they have poor batter adhesion. And so I just say pull it out when it's hot and that'll solve the problem. Yeah? Okay. Um, what else we got here? Joel Esposito wrote in. this is like a long time ago that we've never gotten to this question. And now I've forgotten what I was going to say. So we're going to have to just wing it. going to wing it. I was thinking about oil dispensers recently, as I currently pour straight from the store bought containers, which inevitably ends up making an oily mess no matter what sort of anti-drip cap they put on the bottles. You should you should come to Roberta's, man. The oil dispensers here are like demons. Jack, have you noticed this? Yes. They're the worst. They're the worst. They, they, absolute worst. I mean, it's no offense to the product to make. I just hate their oil things. We've already had the discussion about their standard, uh, the standard red hot pepper shakers. Nastasi and I would both... if I could go back in time and meet one person. It would be the person that invented that and I would slap them in the face. You know what I mean? It works for like the grated Parmesan cheese, but... Yeah, but they don't serve that here because that's an enemy of quality. Right? Oh, it is, yes. Yeah, and they don't serve things here that are enemies of quality, except for, yes, except for that

[34:22] freak. And I'm looking at someone doing it right now. Right now. There's this lady out here trying to get red pepper on her pizza. Unscrew the cap. They should just have a solid cap on it so that you have to unscrew it. Oh my god. Anyways. Okay. Uh, so I ventured on Amazon to browse the marketing of oil dispensing technology.

[34:43] That's a good sentence. At first, I was looking for a machinist style oiler with a trigger and wide

[34:48] base, as I felt this would be a good solution. After a brief search, I could neither turn up said product nor a real deal stainless steel machinist oiler. Yeah, they're all made with regular steel, I think. Although, you remember what I used to have that? Okay, so the one the one that Joel's talking about is the one with the trigger on it where it has the long goose thin

[35:07] goose neck and you're like, right? You put it in. But the one that I actually like is the one that has the curved bottom, that goes, um, um, um. You know what I mean? You press on the bottom, and, like, it's like, it looks like a can. It looks like a, like a, like a, like a half dome can with a long spout coming out of the top and you just press the bottom and it makes that metal noise.

[35:31] I used to love using that thing. I had no good reason to use it as a kid, so I had oil getting everywhere, but I used to just love pressing on that damn thing. You ever have one of those stuff? You know what I'm talking about though, right? Yeah. You probably seen them in like old cartoons from the 40s. Uh, okay. Then I thought about what the ultimate dispensing device would be and what sort of challenges would it need to overcome? These are the challenges in bullet point form. No drips down the side of the container. Thermally insulated. Now why does it need to be thermally insulated? Why? Because you're going to have it too close to your stove? Maybe just don't keep it too close to your stove, right? Although I do have that problem. Sometimes my oil jug, I have a 3 liter jug of olive oil that I keep, it can, that I keep next to my stove. Sometimes it gets a little warm, maybe thermal insulated. I don't know Completely opaque to avoid light-based oxidation. All right, I get that. Here's the problem, though. If it's completely opaque, you don't know how much is in there, unless you do it by weight. What? You could add like a glass window so you can see how much is left. Right, and then presume, because right, because not that much lights going through the glass. Or an oil dipper. A oil dipper, a dipstick. A dipstick. I just had to teach Dax what a dipstick was because we got this tractor over the weekend, like an old tractor from the

[36:40] 70s, and I was like, this is a dipstick. It's not something you call your buddies. It's something that measures oil, uh, and showed them how to wipe it down and, you know, been a while because, you know,

[36:50] in like a modern car. Like I have a Subaru. I haven't looked at the oil once. I don't even know if my Subaru has a dipstick. I have no idea. Uh, anyway, uh, devoid of oxygen to mitigate rancidity. That's a good call, right? And pressurized for spraying across pan or grill surfaces. Presumably, Joel doesn't like the, well, here's the thing. I think, okay, anyway, I'll finish reading and then we'll go into it. This sounds a lot like a thermal whip to me. Thermal Whip is the EC whipped cream maker, but the one that's insulated, right? They're fantastically expensive. They're used typically because you have something hot that you want to keep hot or cold that you want to keep cold, but you don't want to keep your whipper in the fridge or keep it in

[37:31] a hot water bath. So you can either pre-chill or preheat the inside of it, fill it with hot or cold, and it'll stay hot or cold like a thermos for a long time, right? Yeah. But they're about twice the size of the equivalent EC would be if it wasn't a thermal. Uh, it sounds a lot like a thermal to me. utilizing non-fat soluble chargers, IECO2. CO2 is soluble in fat, not as much as N2O, but it is soluble in fat. With a

[37:57] stubby, narrow piping or injection tip attached, you could charge it once and empty the headspace to provide a gas flush

[38:02] effect and then charge again to pressurized. But what are you using? It's so expensive that you're this worried about it? like argon oil? What are you using some sort of like fancy like oil that's like only harvested from a yak, like one period of time during Tibet, like in Tibet, like

[38:16] in the high regions or something? I mean, like, that's some fanciness you're going through for your oil? Anyway. I mean, I'm sure you have, I guess, look, there's olive oils out there that are fantastically expensive. That would be worth saving. Yeah. Okay, okay. It'll be especially baller to have an atomizer attachment to facilitate misting. I'm interested to hear Dave's thoughts on this. Any safety issues, oil, gas, mist, igniting, and a grilling application. Have I ever, have I ever sprayed Pam over a grill and had it ignite? yet. No, I haven't yet done it. Uh, low oxygen, nasties, and infused oil, uh, et cetera. Thanks. Okay. So I looked up the oilers that we were talking about the oil you're looking for, by the way, which are not made of stainless

[39:01] steel, is the golden rod, the golden rod, pistol pump oiler, 6 inch

[39:06] model 606. That's the one you're you're looking for. You ever see the movie Breaker Morant? No, good movie. And you guys see Breaker Morant? I don't think they watch it anymore. It was about this guy who got executed during the Boer War for anyway, whatever. Whenever anyone says 60 something. I think of that movie Breaker Morant, but no one's seen it anymore. Jack, you seen Breaker Morant? No I haven't. Everyone's terrible. You know what? Well, I was dealing with the bartenders and they hadn't seen things like Indiana Jones

[39:31] and the Temple of Doom. They're like 25. What's Jack? Like 25. I've seen all the movies from the 40s Thank you. 29. Was I alive in the 40s? I've seen all those movies. I'm saying. You're a better person than everybody. I mean, me, me, me. cheese nostalgia tries to just make me feel bad. Anyways. It's a little taste, people, of what I have to deal with on a daily basis. Only goes one way. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. But Joel, why do you hate on the Misto, the Misto? I have to admit, I hate, you guys familiar with the misto? know what I'm talking about? You buy it. It's like a little aerosol pump for oils. It doesn't do dripping. It only does the mist, right? I read a lot of, I had a bad luck with it because I got to be honest, I melted one. And then, and then gummed it up. But if you read about it, what they say is that if you store it under pressure, right? It's it's it follows some of your things. It's a pick, right? You could take Argon and, like, flush Argon thing. You'd have to rerig it to pump with something other than air. You'd have to pump it with argon or nitrogen or something like this. Nitrogen is really what you want to use, by the way. Not nitrous or CO2. You want to use nitrogen or argon. Oh my god, Stas, I know what you want to do. Here's what you do. What's that thing called that they had that we tasted at Del Posto? The wine thing that we tasted to post. What? Mosquito. called a mosquito? Anyway, so that's an Argon purge system. Now you don't want to have to keep wasting argon, right? So you like lightly pressurize something with it in like an opaque kind of bottle. And you could probably jerry rig it so that you could get oil out whenever you want it and just pressurize it every once in a while.

[41:13] because the argon's expensive in that system, right? But that would work. Anyway, so the misto kind of works, but there's nothing, there's nothing out there. Well, anyway, try what you said. Tell me whether it's awesome and how many charges you go through, right? I mean, it seems like you know, it seems like you want to run the experiment anyway. So just tell us how it works, right, stars? That's what you say to everyone. Like, just do the experiment. Tell how it works. Now, finally, because we're coming in. I have one more I got to get before it. Okay. I didn't get the answer yet, by the way, Jack, from the bar on the stabilizing piña coladas. Anastasia, did you want to ask me about your kitchen before we go? No, go out to other people. They can ask you any time. Oh, see? That's true. No, that's true. I mean, I hope you do. Here's the thing. Okay, now. Okay, so Ellie wrote in a question, but is it Ely? Because they said it's pronounced capital E Lee. But is that E or E? E, E, E, E, E, E. Like the coffee people, but spelled like, anyway. So wrote in. Congrats again on the James Beard. Thank you Did I already do this? I didn't do the corn and oil, did I? Did I do this? We talked about it briefly. Speaking of cocktails, I made 2 corn and oil cocktails. Uh, black strap, uh, rum, falernum, uh, lime juice. I love those things. I measured everything both times. 2 ounces of rum. Uh, 3 quarters ounce, lime juice, 3 quarters ounce, falerinum, pinch salt. So I drank the 1st and about 30 minutes later, made the 2nd one and drank that one too. The 2nd one tasted much more tart than the first. The only difference I could think of is that the limes I used in the 2nd drink were fresher. The 1st limes were from an older purchase and slightly less juicy. Any evidence that choose from fresher limes is more tart than that from older

[42:58] limes, or is this just a coincidence maybe? Best Ely. Huh. I don't know. I've never I've never I never noticed that. I mean, if I, in general, I have found that sometimes, uh, the juice from older, crappier limes is crappier, um, maybe it's because there's more, um, pith in

[43:21] it. But also, you know how when you cut into a lime and it's kind of brown on the

[43:26] inside, and like, you know what I'm talking about, Styles? kind of brown and crappy on the inside. I find that sometimes the juice from those limes doesn't taste as good. But I don't know how kind of crappy the lines. I don't know if it's tart or not or whether it's just kind of less overall everything. I don't know. But I should, we should run experiment. I mean, I'm sure the bar has limes that are sitting around for a long time. I have had people pick up off flavors, though, in poorly made lines. It could just be that you were one drink less sober. Right? Or slightly, slightly less measured, right? That's another possibility. Uh, and, um, anyway. He also says, I'll end by, um, oh, now this

[44:10] is a separate question. I'm missing, I'm missing. I think something happened with my with my version where it got all chopped up. Anyway, I'm going to read now, uh, from another Vegetti, uh, another Vegetti, Colin, because we've had a, we should have a new thing called the Vegetti Chronicles. Spinoff show. Yeah, or the Vegetti monologues, where we talk about like all the people that writing questions and things about Vegetties. Hey, Hammer, Dave and Jackie Molecules. After following the Vegeti Chronicle Chronicles of the past few weeks, I thought I'd send you my thoughts on spiralized vegetables. So I don't have a veggetti. I do have a, we talked about some of this last week. We didn't get it to finish it, right? Jack, we didn't get to finish it, right? Okay. I do have a paderno spiralizer. Sounds like a coach, right? Wasn't that a coach? That's paterno. Not not Paderno. Paterno. Spiralizer, yes. Which, by the way, those wins were reinstated, right? It's like, it's like, it's like, it's like that person never shot him, right? It's all over. he didn't get shot. Like, he didn't, didn't pen. he was Penn State, right? Didn't they give those wins back? They like punished for a while and then they gave the wins back so it's like nothing happened. They got off scuffery, whatever. I'm not going to get I'm not going to get into sports ethics here because I don't know anything about it. I do have a poderno spiralizer, which seems like a more robust and flexible machine. It's also bulkier. I'm not going to start. But the larger size allows you to make ribbons and spirals out of larger, harder vegetables like beets or jicama, which are too girthy to stick in your

[45:43] veggetti. I'm reading this directly, people. I am not, I'm not editorializing. Spiralized zucchini noodles are infinitely more satisfying than similar noodles cut on a mandolin. The texture is better, the shape is better, and they blow, they blow spaghetti squash out of the water, though they can get soggy or

[46:02] greasy if you cook them for too long. A one minute sauté in a hot pan does the trick. Butternut squash noodles are also delicious when tossed with some brown butter and sage, as proof of concept. I attached a couple photos of spiralized dishes I've made. I don't have those photos. The 1st is zucchini noodles with shrimp and pistachio pesto recipe from modernist cuisine at home. Wait, they were actually spiralizing. They were using a vejetty and minus cuisine at home. I gotta go check it out. The 2nd is pot roast, served over a bed of potato, butternut squash,

[46:31] turnip, and parslip noodles. Great results all around. I'm still trying to work out a good technique for making ultra crispy curly fries with

[46:38] it. All in all, it's worthy of the 30 bucks if you have the space for it, especially if you're looking to avoid pasta, eat more

[46:44] plants or just manipulate vegetables in a new and interesting way. Uh, and I'll end by suggesting anyone interested in these tools should check out the blog

[46:52] inspiralized, inspiralized.com, which is the best online source for spiralizing techniques,

[47:01] tips, and recipes. All the best, Brandenburg in Chicago. Uh, yeah. Well, I mean, yeah. I don't know. Spiralized Inspiralized.com. Didn't Becker just write a cookbook on spiralized vegetables or using, he's into spiralizing. Franklin Becker. Yeah, I don't know. Look, I just can't I can't make myself get all jazzed. What about you guys? Spiralized. I think it's maybe me, though. I have the Vegetti at home, right? And so, I mean, maybe I should, do you think I should get? I have also, like I said before, I think I said this last week, I have this straight blade version of the Poderno spiralizer that I used to make those potatoes for pizzas. Remember, because we were talking about it and Jack said he doesn't have, someone in this studio said that they didn't have potatoes on their pizza. Oh, you weren't here, Styles. why you don't know. No, I was here. You came late. Yeah, it was Peter who said he didn't eat potatoes on his pizza and made us feel like jerks for not having had it. And then you said you didn't like it, but you took it back when I asked you about Sullivan's, which is delicious. Anyway. All right. I can't, I can't, I was going to say some other stuff, but I can't get past the Vegeti in my head. So we might have to wrap it up because it's actually we're going to end on time because we started on time. How do you like that? Well, maybe we'll start at Jack, what do you think about that? It's great. All right. Well, thanks you guys for coming in. Hopefully you had a good time in the studio today, and we'll see you guys next week on cooking issues. Thanks for listening to this program on heritageradionetwork.org. You can find all of our archived programs on our website or as podcasts in the iTunes

[48:41] store by searching Heritage Radio Network. You can like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter at Heritage underscore radio. You can email us with questions anytime at info at heritageradionetwork.org. HeritageRadio Network is a 501c3 nonprofit. To donate and become a member. visit our website today. Thanks for listening.