[0:00] Today's program is brought to you by Heritage Foods USA, the nation's largest distributor of

[0:05] Heritage breed pigs and Turkeys. For more information, visit heritagefoodsusa.com. Hey, hey, hey, I'm Jimmy Carbone from Beer Sessions Radio. You're listening to Heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick, Brooklyn. If you like this program, visit heritageraidernetwork.org for 1000s more.

[0:29] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of Cooking Issues coming to you live on the Heritage Radio Network at Roberta's Pizzeria in Bushwick, Brooklyn, every Tuesday from roughly 12 to roughly 1245. Join as usual in the studio with Nastasia, the Hammer Lopez. How you doing? Good, good, good. Glad to hear it. And, of course, we got Jack in the engineering booth. Hello. And special guests in the studio today. We have 2 of them. We didn't get, even though Harold McGee is in town. He's not our special guest today. He's on a leash for the museum of food and drink more to announce on that in the next couple of months, but we are super pleased to

[1:04] having the studio with us today. Ariel Johnson, who is the head researcher at Mad with one D. You want to describe what that is, Ariel? Oh, so Matt is a, started as a symposium and is like a food and food research nonprofit

[1:19] that's run out of Restaurant Noma in Copenhagen. Yeah. And no, it's like, anyone ever heard of that restaurant? Maybe a few people. Maybe a few people have heard of that restaurant. Um, and also, Don Lee. And Don, you want to tell him what you do-ish? I currently work for Cocktail Kingdom doing a little bit of product development and also working on trade education now. Yeah. Yeah, more like, more like Don is the evil overlord that runs kind of the

[1:47] back, the behind the scenes of the way the cocktail, like, world works. Like, that's your his actual title is is evil overlord, right? That's the subtitle. Yeah, yeah. The invisible hand? He's actually, yeah, yeah, the invisible hand that feeds or removes, but he's not an evil overlord, benevolent, benevolent

[2:06] overlord, in the sense that an overlord can be benevolent. In a true kind of Aristotelian platonic, you know, kind of a philosopher king. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. You know, so he runs, he runs, he runs the kingdom for the betterment of, it's aptly named Cocktail Kingdom. Yeah, that is happened. You know, because he, you know, runs the kingdom. Anyways, Don may or may not also, uh, oh, and by the way, uh, Ariel, uh, before she was the uh, the researcher at, um, at, uh,

[2:35] mad there, uh, Noma, uh, was a, your postdoc there, right? No, no, I was a like PhD. PhD. So, got her PhD from UC Davis, and her thesis was on the

[2:48] Bitters, Bitters, correct? Correct flavor chemistry. Flavor chemistry, specifically of bitters. And so we have them on the, we're going to get some, by the way, if you have any questions for this crew, I encourage you to call in

[3:03] to 718-497-2128. That's 718-497-2128. And because we have no sense of brains, like we,

[3:12] like, I didn't heat up water beforehand, we're going to be tasting a little bit later on in the program, this product called

[3:19] Vipova. What the hell does that mean, Vipovid? Anyone read their literature? No. I think I think they had some kind of statement that it's about like vitality and something else. Vitality? It's one of those invented words. Yeah. Yeah, vitality. I don't know what the Pova part. Pova, like Pavlova? Maybe. Pavlovian. Do you like, well, I was thinking of like the, the, Oh, like the delicious dessert? Yeah. Do you like those? Yeah they're delicious. What are your thoughts? Meringues and fruit and yeah. You know what's a good word? Like, not related, but I'm just thinking of piping stuff out. You know what's a good word? Gakquas. The quad, that is a good word. good word, right? So, uh, Ariel may or may not be an expert in the chemistry of what's going on in

[4:03] this, and Don may or may not be an expert. Oh, what is this 5 POVID stuff? This Vipova stuff is a legal tea with cannabis extractives in it. And Don may or may not be an expert on cannabis extractives. When he is in certain states, jurisdictions and countries. He's an expert. Now he's Lon D, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, we have another person in the studio. His name is Lon D, and he's going to be discussing his maybe firsthand knowledge with maybe products like this, right? Yeah, he's coming soon. Yeah, yeah. He'll be here in a minute. So, uh, so you guys want to weigh in on exactly what it is that we're going to be tasting here, what this

[4:49] Vipova stuff is. Anyone? Anyone? Anyone? Well, my guess is that it's basically like, they just took some hemp oil, extracted some, you know, connebinoid compounds into it, and then put it into the tea in the same way you would make like an Earl

[5:00] Gray tea instead of bergamot oil. It's just some kind of cannabinoid oil. Yeah, they took one of these like low THC strains that you can

[5:08] get, um, that's like high in the other cannabinoid compounds and then enrich that via like a fat extraction entity.

[5:15] Okay, so why do I want that? First of all, is it a tasting? Like, do you like the if you had had marijuana tea a lot or extractives? Do you like the taste of it? I've never actually tried doing a water extraction into kind of a tea sense because you're not going to extract it because it's an oil solid bowl. Exactly. So you normally wouldn't do that. The flavor, though, would be, you know, it just tastes like dried

[5:36] grass, mostly, just be bitter. It wouldn't really be a specific kind of a. Maybe sort of vaguely herbal. Right. Like yerba mate? A little bit more green than you ever, mate? Do you find your ramate nasty or good? It's okay, but it's almost more of a bark kind of flavor. It's more tanic. Really? It's not woody. It's surprising that it's like, why is it compared to marijuana, I would say. Oh, oh, oh, oh, Mata is more. Yeah, mata is much more. All right. So any ideas, you guys, on why anyone would want this to have this stuff? says he gets rid of schizophrenia. It's a lot of things. Count me in. Yeah, yeah. Here's cancer apparently. Yeah. I mean, so, like, cannabinoids. As, like, a class of compounds tend to have varying different effects on, like, the brain and your neurochemistry,

[6:27] um, and where, like, THC is really good at psychoactive effects. Getting you stoned. Um, uh, the Canabadial has like other less sort of stoning mental effects.

[6:43] Like? Well, it's like supposed to help with like anxiety and depression and can like stabilize more like, uh, other mental disorders, like schizophrenia. Apparently, maybe. Well, just according to their data or stuff you've read. I mean, actually, I Googled this this morning and there's like, there's a lot of interest in, like, CBD as, uh, as like a therapeutic cannabinoid. Right, right. A lot of interest, but but no, not a lot of studies in, except for specific... Yeah, I don't think so. Yeah. So did, you know, okay. It acts on like different brain receptors than THC. Right. So is the question is, is that for those folk that self-medicate with marijuana to get themselves mentally right, which, you know, we all know, you know, uh, so

[7:32] is the speculation that's not actually the THC that's helping themselves regulate, that's just a side

[7:37] benefit. Well, they might want to be looking for like a high cannab a dial strain rather than a high... Why not? What's wrong with just having both? Well, you could do high both, but why not? Yeah, why not do this? I want to do both. Indeed. Uncle Sam, that's why. Yeah, he's holding us back. Government conspiracy. So, like, uh, do this, like, does this, uh, CBD

[8:00] stuff? and I say, what is it, canaba what? Canabagio? Yeah, does this can have a dial stuff, uh, like, uh, make you confused at all or no? Can you operate heavy machinery while you're using cannabidial? I guess we'll find out. Like, well, I have no heavy machinery to operate. We can probably get some. Yeah, you find some. Jack, you got any heavy machinery over there? Um, no, no, would you count recording equipment as heavy machinery? Only if you lift it up and try to throw it over your head and put pretty heavy. Yeah. I can make heavy sounds. Oh my god, do you have one? Let me, we should get one before we go to... What's the stuff that makes you hungry after you've smoked up? Is it this stuff or is it? I don't know. I think it might be THC though. Oh, that's straight up THC. I think, like, the this helps, like, counter some of the, like, negative effects of THC, like, paranoia and such. So this is not going to make you paranoid. This will not, I don't think so. We'll find out. Well, but Stas says it takes like 5 hours to kick in, so we'll have to let you guys know next week how we feel. don't know. I don't know how this works. By the way, so, like, we're not going to have to load up the adopt and screwed version of Mary Kate and Ashley's pizza song. I think we should... That with the world, Dave. That's like, I just learned about that yesterday. See, I'm so behind on my internet, like viral videos that, you know. Anyway, we didn't talk about the trickery ice cream last week, right? didn't get to that one I did talk about chicory. right. I like to get, I like to, you sure I got to the chicory? I think so. Jack, did I talk about chicory last week? I don't I don't think so. Styles were just about to, Ellie wrote in and was just about to get nuked because Styles was like, nah, I don't care about that question. I don't want you to answer it ever. Whoa, whoa. Okay. Ariel, you'll be good on this. And you ever you ever do it? you like Don, a frequent denizen of New Orleans. Do you enjoy chicory coffee? It's okay. You hate it, like a good person would. It's quaint. It's the custom of, you know, of New Orleans. the same way they'll have a beignet when I'm down there. don't really look for it up here. I'll have a, you know, a little trickery coffee with my beignet. Yeah, I think it's, well, I don't like milk in my coffee and they dump so much milk into it to make it palatable

[10:06] that, like, and, yeah. Do you know that? I'm not going to get into it. Okay, I was recently trying to make chicory ice cream and started off by simmering the milk, turning off the heat and dumping the ground chicory root in it like I would do and making coffee ice cream.

[10:20] Well, that did not go too well, and the milk curdled a bit. I suppose chicory is acidic? I assume chicory is acidic? Right? I don't think it's acidic. I don't think it's that acidic, but Ariel's looking it up for you. Or is it maybe some other reaction that caused the curdling. Maybe a lower heat would not cause this to happen. What is the best way to infuse something like that? ISI or maybe cold infusion in the fridge for a longer period? Any idea if there's a listing of some sort of rule or thumb for ingredients that could curdle milk like that and should be infused some other way? By the way, I did not throw away the curdled milk. Perutza. I strained it very well and blended it with 50% sugar by weight. I hoping to use it in cocktail experiments and see how it tastes. Any pointers about that. Spirits methods. Any pointers on that, Don? Like chicory way. chicory wh way. If it hadn't curdled, you know, you can do kind of a milk punch thing, I don't know. You could, I mean, worst case, just try freezing it and using it as your ice, you can add a little bit without making too much sugar flavor. But he turned it into a simple syrup. It's already a syrup, yeah. Shake with it. Shake it out, yeah. Shake what happens. Shake, shake. Like a Polaroid picture. Yeah, shake it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. See you shake your tail feather. Anyway, my point is, is this. Here's your problem. You have many problems. I almost guarantee you. You know what I mean? I mean, I don't know. I mean, in terms of chicory and ice cream. Like, but I think what it is is, um, milk is one of those things that's balancing, like, you know, balancing itself on the edge of curdling pretty much all the time. So if your milk is older and it's had bacteria growing it for a while, it might be slightly more acidic, which is going to make it more apt to curdle. So you could raise the pH a little bit with a pinch of, and I wouldn't do this, but you could raise the pH a little bit with a pinch of baking

[11:56] soda. Yeah, Ariel, that's going to, not a lot because if you take it, if you take it too high, it's also going

[12:01] to be, like, like, milk wants to be in specific kind of range of pHs, which is where it kind of comes to you in the jug or out of the cow,

[12:07] right? Now, assuming that wasn't your problem or partial, when you're heating it, the milk's going to be less stable. And also, uh, there's a lot of, um, like, uh, like phenolic compound, polyphonolic compounds in chicory that, uh, you know, much

[12:22] like uh, tannins are going to cause uh, and it might actually be tannin. I dont know. Uh, that are going to cause uh, things to curdle. So the same way that if you make an extraordinarily strong infusion of like sumac or any other kind of bark and heat and milk, you can curdle it. So the good news is that you might be able to do exactly what you're doing if you add the sugar 1st because high sugar concentrations allow you to

[12:49] stabilize. So, for instance, if you make a 50, if you do a 50-50 milk sugar thing, you can dump acid into it and it'll thicken, but it won't break. You know what I mean? Um, because there's just so much sugar that I guess it's, I don't know why. It's just like not allowing the proteins to get together and curdle as well. Yeah, or like complexing them in some... sugar binds water, so protein's buying water and that's how they fold. Right. So if you're assuming that like a typical ice cream base that I would use would have a liter of milk slash cream and would have 170 grams of

[13:25] sugar. So I don't know if that's enough to stabilize it for what you're doing, right? So you can either do a cold infusion, but you or definitely add after you add anything that's going to stabilize, like egg yolks or anything like that. I would just do your infusion after the stuff has been stabilized. Or else just do like a hardcore tincture of chicory and then add it as an alcohol, but it's not too much so you lower, lower the rate. But almost certainly you're dealing with you're dealing with a tannin or other similar kind of like phonology crap,

[13:55] right? Yeah, I would imagine so. Can is a phenolic thing, right? Canon is a phenolic thing. Yeah. Yeah, and those like bind to proteins. That's how that's how like astringency happens. And that's, as Mirville would say, why? That's why we put milk in our chicory coffee because it's

[14:13] unpalatably like astringent and bitter, right? It's astringent and bitter, and the astringency stuff is the stuff that's binding with the milk and getting wiped out, which is why we add milk to tea, and super strong, super

[14:26] strong, tea in milk, I can get that to curdle in the presence of liquor. In other words, like things that will, like alcohol destabilizes, acid destabilizes, um, uh, tannins destabilize, milk, heat destabilizes milk. Sugar protects kind of milk to a certain extent. I think egg yolks pretty much protected to a certain extent. starches can protect, anything thickens, the matrix so that the matrix. Anything that thickens it so that the proteins can't agglomerate together is going to stabilize. Yeah? Yeah, maybe, I mean, it made me think for a second, like, uh, there might be some sort of like plant proteases

[15:05] in chicory, so, like, you can make like a, like a thistle or a nettle cheese. So then you get like uh, protein curdling via like protein breakdown, like a rennet. Is chicory related to cartoons? I don't think so. I mean, it might be, but I have a feeling your tannin theory might be more correct. Right, but it is true. There are there are plants that have enzymes that coidal things, and so maybe it's there. So, hey, so so liquor boss and bidders boss, like, uh, what, uh, any any commercial amaros that uh, are chicory based? Nothing I know of. Nothing springs to mind. Since you guys, well, since we know at least Don has had shickory coffee in the past 5 years. Like, what do you think it would take, like, what kind of Amaro kind of base would you want to make with something like that? Would you want to do like a bitter space with? Is it not a, is it not an interesting enough bitter? It's not that interesting, to be honest. I do birch before I would do trickery. Yeah, birch isn't that bitter, though. Yeah, but that's why you add other things to it. Yeah, but as a bittering agent, you wouldn't use it as a bittering agent. Like if you're going to do like a southern tomorrow, let's say. Like a New Orleans tomorrow. Maybe. Like a, like a birch and cane syrup and... Right, but it's not nearly as bitter

[16:21] as like quasia or something like that. Right. Yeah. Yeah, but trickery isn't that bitter either. That's what I'm saying. Well, the chicory's not as bitter. So, like, you wouldn't pick it as a straight up bitterent because you'd use something else that

[16:34] is, like, blah, blah, bitter. Right. But so if he's got the trickory syrup already, he can do like a cafe

[16:40] Brulot, if he wants to go kind of New Orleans though, then you're adding coffee, doing a little like, you know, rum, flame job. Flame job. Yeah, flame stuff. Is our is our tea water hot yet? Oh, I can check. Yeah, ooh. Doesn't it make a little like happy sound? It's one of those shows. Is it Sohirushi? I think so. You know, uh, uh, uh, my zoshirushi rice cooker at home. I have the induction, the 18 cup, the one before the pressure, but at the time I got it, which was over a decade ago. was the highest N one. And Booker, you know, he's on the spectrum, right? So Booker used to not be able to stand the noise of the

[17:14] the music that the Zoji Rushi, and so he wouldn't let me cook rice. And so I had to rip, like one day I was ripped open the zoji Rushi and like just cut the speaker wire. So now, like, I forget that Zozirushi equipment plays, tunes for you when it's done. I don't even remember what the tune sounds like. Do you remember, you know what a Joshi Bushi done tune is? I have both a rice cooker and a like the hot water thing, and they play a different tune, but I could not tell you what those tunes are. Oh, so you should, but you're, like, you think subconsciously? you know, oh, my tea is ready. Or, like, or, oh, my rice is ready by the tuna place. Well, I never do both at the same time, so. Oh, well, well, assuming you did, like it should it should just come out and say, rice. And just let you choose the languages, right? Rice. Yeah, maybe. I never remember in, I don't know how to say rice in Japanese, and I never remember which one's rice in

[18:06] Chinese to chow or the fan. One's fried, one's rice. For the record, I'm Korean, not Chinese. I know this. doesn't know that. he doesn't know that. Noodles are main, right? So, uh, Chow is the is the uh, the front, yeah. So fan must be the rest, yeah. And so for completeness in Korean, what is it? Well, so in the Chinese character version, it's pun. But it's usually you say pop is the kind of the modern Korean way of saying it. And then in Japanese, it would be Gohan, right? Is rice. Oh, okay, Gohan Society. Nice. All right. Well, just go to show how little I know about language. Okay, is it ready? We are obtaining the correct vessels for brewing tea. And what is the correct vessel for brewing tea? I would imagine a tea cup for a month. Are you guys going to do like gung fu chai kind of stuff on this or what? No? Should we play trippy music? Yeah. When we're drinking it, we should play some trippy music underneath. Do we know how long this needs to steep for? till it's done, yo. Okay, and Ellie also writes in PS, Dave, the Lebanese Halawa, or Hava, made from sesame

[19:17] paste and chock full of pistachios, kicks that Mexican, fake Halva, which is, you know, remember the, what's that stuff called again? Don, the Mexican, the, I loved it. I love it. No, it's called like... The wedding cookies? No, no, the one that's basically like peanut paste. Yeah, it's got the little rose on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Other than being like the peanut cookie. I don't know. It just went out of my head. That stuff's delicious, but Ellie here is saying that, like, real how that kicks the crap out of that peanut stuff or, like, the Brazilian version. Anyway, I don't know. I don't know. What do you think? Are you a Hava? I like Hava. It's okay. I'm not a big holo fan. But do you like those peanut, that peanut thing? Occasionally, it's so dry though. It's named after Marzipan. It's called Mazapan. Mazapan. That's what it's called, because it's like marzipan, but it's like Mazapan. So it's what's hilarious is it's like Hava, but named after Marzipan, and it's like neither, which is, you know, whatever. Classic. Okay. All right, let's see, we've got any more questions in. Did I handle the one about cooking? I had handle the one about batching your food, right? The one who wanted a guy who wanted to cook lean foods or... Yeah, I handled that. All right. I handled the fermentation. I can't believe it. I actually I actually think I got through. Did I deal with, I dealt with Peggy from Australia. her questions, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. Remember that whole conversation? Yeah, but there's another Australian. No, no, no. Pittsburgh again. Oh, well, that's for today. That's today. Yeah, get through last week's, last week's stuff, which I think is, you know, looking good. I think I've done it. I think I've done it. All right. What milk? We're not we're not putting milk in. I'm not putting milk, nor am I putting sugar in. B this stuff up. Brew it out. Well, you don't have to. I think the barista was just being nice to you. I don't like when people are nice to me. I don't appreciate it. I know you don't. I hate it. All right. Now, today's questions. From Luke. Hey, y'all. Can you pass this question on to Dave and a crew? Is it possible? This is a good one, Don, for you. Is it possible to make cocktails while you're camping? My question is about ice. How would it be possible to transport and or make ice while camping for a week? Thanks for the great show, Luke. Go hiking on a glacier. the easiest way Exactly, which Don has actually done. Like Don went camping in an RV, though. So it's RV camping, but still camping. That's another way to do it. have an RV in Iceland. Yeah, just go, you know, if you go in the winter, you go winter camping, go mountaineering up in rainier. It a glacier. It's always there. Yeah, of course, then they probably want the hot beverage. Right. Yeah, but that's not the question. That's not, well, presumably that's not the question. The other question is how much stuff can you pack in, right? So you can bring ice and you can bring ice and then like bury it in a pit in the ground and like a, you know, £40 block of ice will last a long time buried in a pit in the ground in an insulated

[22:15] container, but now you're packing £40 of ice in with you. Another thing you can do is, uh, you could, does anyone make like a spot chiller, like with CO2 cartridges

[22:28] that no one does, but if you wanted to take a fire extinguisher with you, you could basically make dry ice and like a pillowcase on the fly, use that to chill water if you really wanted

[22:36] to. Right. So pre-dilute the stuff and then bring a dry ice bag. I'm surprised no one makes like a, uh, so a dry ice, a dry ice, uh, maker attached to a 20 ounce CO2 like

[22:53] air gun bottle should be able to make on the order of 7 ounces of dry ice, which is enough to chill like a good bit of

[23:01] cocktail. Right, but now you're carrying all this stuff in. So the real baller move is, you know, like if you're going to go kind of like long distance backcountry, Appalachian Trail kind of thing, you have people like leave you supply drops. So you just have a bunch of Sherpas, go out multiple days in advance, carrying big blocks of ice, buried in advance at your campsites. And then when you get to the campsite, you just have to dig it up. Now, that's the baller move. That is a baller move. Also, you know, I think if you stick with, um, if you stick with uh, drinks that are meant to be uh, enjoyed at warmer temperatures, like old-fashioned or something like this, you're not going to get it down to technically to old-fashioned, but if you dig a hole that is, um, by the way, when you're bringing liquor camping, you should always uh, buy

[23:44] the, uh, they make little uh, bottle sacks. They're like, like, they're like water bottles that are plastic that hold liquor and they're incredibly light.

[23:52] And of course, you should only drink boxed wines when you're camping because it's incredibly light to bring boxed wines with you. Jordan is making cocktails on her burning man. Yeah, but she's going in RV. That's easy. And you can buy ice every day there. She said you can't. She didn't want to. She wanted to, whatever. I don't want to get she there right now? No. No, it's a... It was it the last weekend of August, 1st weekend of September, something like that. Yeah. Anyway, so the other thing you can do is if you are going to be by a moving body of water, like a river,

[24:21] lake, uh, that, you know, has some kind of flow, a deep enough lake, if you are boating in any way, you can just get a mesh sack, you can put all the everything you want into watertight bottles, like analogy and drop it

[24:31] in, and then just hang that off the back of your boat, the water temperature will be pretty cold, so you get fairly cold drinks.

[24:36] So even if you have sodas or beers, it's a common way of chilling it if you're on a lake or like on a river. Yeah, and the lower you go, the cooler it'll go. And if you're not, if you dig down to about 3 or 4 feet underground, uh, even if you don't hit water, you're probably going to get down to temperatures close to like, uh, in the 50s somewhere and you want a real old school baller, sweet, sweet baller trick, if you, um, if you put

[25:01] your uh, bottle in a, uh, in a jug, clay jugs are the best, but you put it into a jug and then you put towels that lean out over it, you'll get wicking and

[25:12] evaporation and you can basically turn your your bottle into an evap cooler. So if you wrap your bottle in uh, in something that has a water reservoir so it stays moist, but it wakes up and air moves across it and keep it in the shade, it will, it will uh, evaporate

[25:28] off and you could probably get a good, and if go on any of the old, see, the golden age of the camping book was roughly, roughly 1880 to roughly 1940, right? That's the kind of the golden age of the camping book. So you can look up, there's a guy named Mason who wrote a famous one called Woodcraft. a guy named Sears who's who's went by the, you know, the pseudo-Indian name of Nesmuk, wrote one. And all of these folks have these old tricks on how to keep things cool. Now, they're not going to make ice, but they try to keep things as cool as possible. They're specifically worried about like stuff going bad that's refrigerated. for instance, the animal you just shot in the face. Uh, but, uh, they all have uh, strategies uh, for for things like that. Another good way is to go camping in the high desert. It gets pretty cold at night. You get some serious evaporative cooling there. You could probably get a good temperature delta like 20 degrees or something. So, Dave, I'm back country camping by Lake Superior next week. So I'll try out some of this stuff. Yeah, yeah. Well, you should get a hold of that book. One of those books, Woodcraft. I think Mason does it. There's another one, a famous guy. I can't remember his name, but they're all published between, like I say, like the late 1800s and

[26:35] the 1940s. So they all, they, they, they are prior to the leave no trace model of camping. And so like the 1st thing to do is fell a number of large trees. And

[26:46] then like, you know, like, you know, have the person who brought your, you know,

[26:50] you know, camp equipment in with you. Like, some of them tell you how to trek a loan, but also some of them tell you how to do, like, the old gentleman's camp where you do have people that you hire to carry all your crap in. Like all your cartridges and guns and... It's like burn a 30 foot circle for your campsite and salt the earth when you

[27:06] leave. Oh, you would not, you would not believe, Ariel, you would not believe, like, they're like, if you need to make a fire to cook on. Like, literally, they fell 2 giant trees and make a V so that you

[27:18] have like, like a larger fire, fire as it goes down to a V, and then they fill the entire interior of

[27:24] this like 15, 16 foot long V with logs, light the whole sucker up down to Coles, fell another tree to

[27:31] make like cross braces for like spits. I mean, it's just they're freaking bananas. These folks are bananas. And they have people carrying like large cast iron. Remember, like things like Dutch ovens used to be camp camp equipment. Would you carry one of those things into the woods? No, you would not. No, you would not. Car camping or hired people camping. You know what I mean? glamping. Glamping, glamping. Yeah, but it used to just be like the way you did it. But then there was like the nut bags, like the muers and whatnot who would just like, you know, go out there. This guy, Nesmuk, I told you about. He was one of the original, like, canoe portage guys all around the Adirondacks up in upstate New York, and he had someone build

[28:11] him, like, a traditional Native American canoe. He was a small guy. He was a very small guy, so he could get away with a short kind of a canoe, a small canoe. His canoe, I think, weighed under 15 pounds. And so he just, you know, would just like, you know, go out with that and like his

[28:24] backpack and, you know, and chill. People, you know, you can't really do that anymore. It doesn't really, I don't know. This stuff looks weird, man. This stuff's got emulsify crap in it. So the tea bags have this sort of like greasy, greenish color to them. And then as soon as you put the tea bag in the in the water, it becomes kind of cloudy. Is there any actual tea in it? It does have a bitter back to it. It has real tea in it. Yeah, it tastes kind of, I was going to say, it tastes somewhat like tea. Tastes like tea. It's been brewing for like 4.5 minutes now. You've been brewing for 4.5 minutes. Not done. I took mine out immediately. Wait, are you drinking it? Yeah. But are you drinking a jack? Oh, do you want one, Jack? No, no, no. I mean, yes, yes, I do, but I should not. I'm working. Like we're not. And we're not working. All right, I'm sipping this... Oh. Dude. Dude. How much this do I have to drink to get anything? But you have the packet. You have, like, the... The promotional materials. Well, I don't think there's no psycho... Well, there's got to be psychoact. Why am I doing it if there's a why? Why? Because the... The other... Hey, it's like, you know, it's like, it's like, uh, it's like O'Dools. All of the beerness, none of the beerness. No, like, in other words, this stuff, what's it called? In my head, it's, I'm saying, CJD, which is Yakub's

[30:08] Kreichfeld disease, which is not what we want to see. See, exactly, that's CBD. This has supposed to have some sort of benefit for me, right? I'm supposed to find my Pove is supposed to get vibed up. It's like it's like homeopathy, though. you know, it's gonna make everything better. There's no science behind that. Is it, I don't know, is there? Well, I don't know, like the, I don't know. Like someone's got a call in. Someone's got everything. do you think, though? do you think? You like the flavor of it? It's not very good tea. 1st criticism. Second of all, I mean, it definitely tastes like the cannabis oil. I don't like the flavor. Jack, you don't like that flavor? By the way, I've learned a lot about Jack. When we're going to drink that. This is, like, that's the music that he puts on. Like, I was thinking more like, see, I don't know how a user, right? I was thinking more. I was thinking more like Pink Floyd metal. One of these days I'm going, what is it, chop you into little pig? You know that song? Bam, bam, bam, bam. You guys listen to that old stuff? Sometimes, yeah. It's good stuff. I had to go with the royalty free also, you know. Yeah, that is cool. Oh, yeah. Do you think Pink Floyd's going to like really get on our case for telling people that one of these days we're going to chop them into little pieces? I mean, Roger Waters? Yeah. could see it happening. Wow. Wow. calling him out All right, let's take a commercial break and we'll come back, see whether or not we're psychoactively affected on the cooking issues.

[31:31] Hello out there. It's Steve Jenkins, I'm with Fairway Markets, White Leghorn, Red Wattle, Bourbon Red, Navajo Churro. Wow, these aren't names you're likely to hear at a fairway butcher counter or any other counter today, but before the rise of factory

[31:49] farming you would have. And at Heritage Foods USA, you still do. Heritage Foods USA exists to promote genetic diversity, small family farms, and a fully traceable food supply.

[32:03] You see, we believe the best way to help a family farmers to buy from them, and

[32:08] heritage foods is honored, to represent a network of family farmers, artisanal producers whose work presents an immeasurable gift to our food

[32:16] system, and to biodiversity. The meat we celebrate, whether it's heritage, turkey, Japanese steaks, Berkshire pork, or Navajo

[32:25] churro, lamb chops, is the righteous kind, from healthy animals, of sound genetics that have been treated humanely, and allowed to pursue their natural instincts.

[32:34] It's a simple fact. Animals raised, according to this philosophy, taste better. And as we like to say, you have to eat them to save them. Visit us. Oh, we're not. And we're back. And we're back. Oh, by the way, I like how you cut him off, right when he was going to say to visit our website. He got high. He got high. I got high. I got high. It was heritage foodsusa.com. Speaking of that was the website. Yeah, speaking of website, uh, like pretty soon, you guys are going to be able to, what's it called? Live. What are you going to live? they're going to be a little live due? many things. There's a forum. The new website's really awesome. Yeah, the live stream, you can, there'll be a chat. So you can like actually chat us live. I'll have it all pulled up here. So, you know, you can harass us, ask us questions, make comments, and then I can pass those on to Dave. Right, so the way it'll work is, is like, let's say, I'm not saying you're doing this, but let's say you're at your place of

[33:30] work and you have the headphones on, which, by the way, when I was a kid, you couldn't do that crap. You couldn't put headphones on when you're at work, you know. Anyway, let's say you have your headphones on and your children's workplace? Yeah, you know, your cubicle. Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah, you have them on and you're listening to us, but you can't call in, but you want to say, so what you do is you'll stream crap in, Jack will see it, and

[33:49] you'd be like, hey, Jack, don't all those idiots that they're wrong. They're morons. And he'll say, uh, you know, blah, blah, whoozy mutt, blah, blah, says that you are, you know, idiots, right? And then you can... That's exactly how it's gonna work. And there's all there's other benefits, this new website that you guys helped pay for. Is this true or false? true. 100% true. I have a caller. Oh, all right. Call her, you were on the air. Hi, this is Jud. Hi, Dave. Hi, Don. Hey, Jess, how's it going? Hi, good. My question's kind of for both of you. Um, Don, I, I know you and I got in a very intense conversation in New Orleans, um, in regards to categories of food. And I just wanted to know kind of Dave's perspective. Um, we got in a pretty intense argument about, um, if a quesadilla, it falls under the category of a sandwich. And I just wanted to know. what they think. Okay, listen, listen. Listen. Uh, okay, okay, okay. I gotta calm down here. Let's let's just let's look at this from a number of different perspectives, okay? Define sandwich, Don. I believe a sandwich involves 2 things of starch. Oh, oh, oh, whoa, whoa. Rice? Something in between. Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa. Squish rice? All right, all right. Arranged? horizontally. I think you can make things with rice crackers. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You could make a, you could make a, what is it? Rich, which crackers with peanut butter? Is that a freaking sandwich? Is matza with peanut butter in between a sandwich? You know what an Oreo is? A sandwich cookie. Not a sandwich. So sandwich is an adjective as well as a noun. Sandwich is a category of the way you stack. First of all, it could be a bad sandwich. No, no, no. First of all, sandwich you don't want. Sandwich is sandwich is made. Here's sandwich is with bread. Buh red. Red. Once again, I go to the matza example then. It is the bread of suffering. It is the, you know, are you going to deny the Jews, their bread, when they're running away from the Egyptians? Two pieces of pizza flipped on themselves. Are they a freaking sandwich? Only if there's something in between, but it's not pizza. Is a calzone sandwich? No, because it's round. It's cal What? It's like a burrito. What? Burrito definitely not a freaking sandwich. Clearly, much like a wrap. Oh, have a calzone. Oh, yeah, wait, wait, wait, wait. quesadilla not then because it's folded. Okay, here's the question then. What about a freaking if you were down to the last slice of bread and you wanted to make a sad grilled cheese and you folded that last piece of bread in half with cheese and you've made it on a griddle, is that still a grilled cheese?

[36:37] If you believed in God, you would cut the bread in half rather than fold it. Or even if you were an atheist with like a iota of self-respect. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like, but I don't know that this folded thing, for instance, a lobster roll is a sandwich, and it's made on a split bun. Definitely not. It's a freaking sandwich. It's a hot dog a sandwich, then? Obviously not. I mean, in other words, it is a sandwich, but it gets its own category. Right? It gets its own category. The only thing that gets its own category is a hamburger. Hamburger gets its own freaking category. What's a patty melt? What a patty melt. It's a kind of hamburger. My question is, whoa, whoa. Now a matter of horizontal versus vertical and how you actually consume. How would you constrain it? The

[37:23] vertical quesadilla. No, the hot dog is vertical. Or long, that is why. The split in the bread is vertical is what you're saying. Exactly. Okay. So whereas a Italian sausage... So when you buy a crappy, when you buy a crappy hot dog, freaking bun, and you open it too much to toast it because you're one of those people that toast their freaking hot dog buns, right?

[37:45] And it breaks into 2 and you hand them that crippled hot dog that falls through the thing, is it now a freaking sandwich? Not to hold it sideways. No, because if it's fallen through, it's still vertically stacked. It's not horizontally. But then if you have to, like, rotate it 90 degrees. Now you have a failure of a hot dog. So the Oxford Dictionary. What do we think? An item of food consisting of 2 pieces of bread? Two pieces with meat, cheese or other filling in between them, eaten as a light meal. So would you say this Oxford? It shows what they know. Oxford, by the way, which not a sandwich? Oxford English Dictionary, world-renowned for being crappy when it comes to definitions of food or etymologies related to

[38:29] food or historical timelines related to food. World renown for being the worst. Where should he go? Where should she go? To life, to life. The company subway, right? Do they manufacture sandwiches? A sub is a subcategory of sandwich, yes. Even though they're not split all the way in 2 anymore? Look, in the old days, they would take the knife and they would go, shippy, shippy, shippy,

[38:53] shippy, and rip the V out and then the V would be a pseudo top to it. Now they just slice it in half because they're too inept to use the V slice anymore. And that's why if you get a subway now versus a subway 15, 20 years ago, it used to be you could eat them without it spraying all over the inside

[39:07] of everything and now everything sprays everywhere because it's just so nasty. You know how you eat a subway sandwich that's spring everywhere. Because I get lots of toppings. I enjoyed mayonnaise and mustard. And so, like, the stuff like they, they put it at the end and it freaking extrudes out of the side. the most important thing in sandwich is not the definition. It's the construction, the layering that goes into a proper sandwich. It's true. The worst thing you can do, somebody, is to silo their burrito. Have you ever done this as a joke? No what is it? When you give them, you make a burrito for somebody. You make him in silos of all the different ingredients, the wrong way. No, but that shows why a burrito is a piece of crap. Because it's got to too much freaking, like, I want my rice and beans separately. I want a small object, like that I can consume burritos, burrito, 1st of all, like a burrito is an inferior chimichanga. Right? And an inferior intro. it's like an inferior inferior product, no? It's an inferior product. agree. Yeah. What do you think, Ariel? Inferior to what? Well, like, for instance, like, it would be better just if you deep fried it and turned into a chimichamba. That's true. I would always rather have like 2 or 3 tacos than a burrito. Oh, 100% of the time. I'd rather have taquitos than a burrito. I would rather have enchiladas, even though it's totally different than a burrito. And I would rather have quesadilla, frankly, than a burrito. But is it a sandwich? quesadilla? Here's another thing. Like, is an open faced sandwich, even though it's called open faced sandwich, a sandwich. Not according to the Oxford English idiots. I would say yes, because the normal form is closed and you have to denote that it has been opened. But it doesn't serve they don't serve it with next... But don't a sandwich you have to eat with your hands. Ooh, here's an interesting question. Bill de Blasio would say you can eat anything with a knife and fork, including pizza. Well, like in... In Denmark, where I usually live, we have like open face sandwiches, s'more abroad, which are impossible to eat with your hands. You like literally cannot. This is never meant to be a closed sandwich that you may or may not open. Smorgas is always open. Oh, yeah, it's more about a... It is the normal form of a smorgas is already open. Yeah. So you didn't take a sandwich and open it to make a smorgas. But then if you ask a Danish person what a s'more broad is, they're, oh, open faced sandwiches, but why would you ask the Danish person that? They're just being polite. They're trying to translate it because they all speak English and they're not worried about the, like the, the nicety, the fine points of the language, right? You mean, right? We got a tweet in. This is why this is a treat about sandwiches? It's our buddy Elliott. He says, sandwich argument, same as pretzel argument. A sandwich is one thing, everything else subcategory. Well, the pretzel argument to me is there's no such, like, a pretzel rod is not a freaking pretzel. It's a pretzeloid. sandwichoids maybe. Okay, here is...

[41:47] Well, yeah, in other words, it's like, is Pluto a planet? Nah, it's planetoid. I mean, it's in the same realm, although I don't I don't really think of anything with unleavened bread. Sorry, Maza Bay sandwiches as like the actual hardcore category. To me, it has to be leaven. So anything with a tortilla base or like a roti is not a sandwich. Uh, like, like anything that's got an unleavened bread based to me is not really technically how I think of as a sandwich.

[42:14] To me, it has to be kind of a leavened bread base. Um, I think it can be opened or closed as long as you designated. I think it's like anything else. It's like pornography. I know when I see it. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, a sandwich is, you can just tell what it is, but a pretzel is super freaking clear.

[42:30] A pretzel, okay? A pretzel is a wheat dough that contains no oil. You hear that? Bachman's. pretzel contains no oil, right? It's usually made with a sourdough kind of a leavening technique. It is rolled into a tube shape, twisted into a pretzel shape,

[42:52] right? It is a pretzel shape, right? It is then cooked in an alkali solution briefly to get, and if it's not cooked that way, then it is a pretzel shaped piece of bread,

[43:04] right? And then you can either cook it hard or soft. And you can have it with salt because you like things that are good or without salt because you're a bad person. Or sometimes sugar. Some idiots dip it in butter, but I don't like that. Do you like that style? This soft pretzel dipped in butter. It's not my favorite. Hey here's one. I mean, I like butter, but hey, like, bagels clearly a bit, here's the interesting one. Is a bagel a sandwich? When you cut it open? A bad sandwich. I don't believe in eating bagel top and bottom together. We've had this discussion. I shouldn't. So it's up to you could make a bad sound. Yeah, I've heard people like say that I'm bad because they like to eat their bagel top and bottom because they like all the fillings to squeeze out. Yeah, those people are just wrong. We all know that. Well, I think the reason is because they're eating a bagel that has no backbone, no structure. So there's like, if you have a bagel. I don't place the bagel to get any of the effect. Yeah, like a bagel should be eaten with like open whatever you have on it should be open. It should always be open. Always. An egg sandwich on a bagel, you're opening that up? No, that's wrong. You should never put an egg sandwich in a bagel. Egg sandwich, a Kaiser roll. Come on. Jack, how long you been in New York? Egg sandwich goes on Kaiser Roll. 100% of the time. I say like one out of every 5 times I go for the bagel. What? No? One out of every 5 times. I get an egg. First of all, first of all, in my mind, I have that nasty, sallow,

[44:26] like, uneven bagel in my head that you get at the joint that's making the egg sandwich. That thing is just an abomination anyway. That was made like 8 years ago, that bagel. Yeah. What do you think about the croissant sandwich? I mean, cross sandwich. Slicing is a croissant open and putting something inside is a long tradition. Is it a sandwich? No, it's a pastry. Ooh. Hmm. Different thing. Anyway, like I was saying, like there are things like for or against. I would like if I said, if I said, let's have sandwiches and someone handed me a hot dog, I'd get angry. If someone said, let's have sandwiches and they handed me a quesadilla, I would, I would, I would tell them to go to hell. Do you know what I mean? I mean, that's just like, honestly, what would happen. If someone handed me something that's like closer to a say. frankly, if someone, if I said I want a sandwich and they handed me an open face sandwich gravy port all over it, like a piece of toast, some freaking like shredded dry as hell turkey and gravy on the top, I'd be like, I asked for a freaking sandwich.

[45:24] You know what I mean? Like, and you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, here's my question. I think we've done this before. BLT season coming up people. And by the way, by the way, I had some Anastasias tomatoes on my 1st BLT of the season. They were delicious. Thank you, Nastas. Yeah. BLT sandwich. Do not let people make their own BLT sandwiches because they will not put mayonnaise on both the top and the bottom piece of toast.

[45:50] Do not over toast your BLT so that your mouth becomes excoriated from the BLT as you chew on it.

[45:56] Do not make a BLT from a bread with too much structure. This will ruin the effect of a BLT sandwich. Do not make a BLT with some wimpy kind of

[46:08] like fancy Dan lettuce that doesn't have good crunch. My preferred BLT lettuce is iceberg. Crap on all of you. anyone anyone going to come out against me on this? What do you? No, I think that's correct. All right. A good tomato, right? And like 3 strips of good bacon, salt, pepper, that's it. You should also salt the tomato separately, and you should pepper the mayonnaise on each side of the bread. Amen. That is how you make a freaking BLT sandwich. What about a refrigerated tomato? Oh my god, you got to give Dan your face. All right, listen, listen. Listen. Get out. Uh, we have, uh, we, listen, Nastasia told me, uh, we're getting kicked off the air soon. What are your thoughts on this cannabinoid tea, by the way? Can what is it, canabadiaa? Can have a dial? Cannaba die all sounds like Cannaba, cannaba. You like it or not? You feeling anything? I'm not feeling anything. I'm thumped down. It doesn't make the tea taste any better. Like adding bergamot to tea, makes delicious Earl gray. Adding cannabin, whatever oil to the tea makes it taste like muddy, something. But it's a functional thing. It's a functional thing. I'm feeling a function from this table. Yeah, but you're not supposed to. anyway, listen. Nastasi tells me that we're going to be on hiatus for a month because we're going on hiatus for a month while they

[47:23] sit and when we come back from the hiatus, the new website will be up and running and you can live tweet us not. So let me try to rip through a couple questions like instantaneous fashion. Zach from Pittsburgh writes in, how you doing? Pittsburgh is the place to go if you like races, huh? It comes from an earlier thing because if someone said that to me. I doubt it is much different than any other city. There are good people here and bad. Our food scene is getting a lot better. It is pretty nice. Check it out sometime. I'd like to. Food questions. Why can't restaurants handle fresh cut French fries? So many places like to talk up their fries, but then you get them and they look great, but in reality,

[47:51] they're undercooked floppy, waxy, and bad. A good French fry shouldn't be so hard to pull off, especially when it's probably your most served food item.

[47:57] To me, it is a sign they just don't care about quality. That's right. It actually is more difficult than most people are willing to take on to make a good French fry. It's not difficult in the sense that you don't need to have a PhD to do it, and you don't need to be, you know, a rocket scientist, but you do need to do more steps than most people want to do, to make a good French fry, even if you don't use the enzymes or any other

[48:19] stuff, requires at least 2 at least one boil step, at least a dry step and a single

[48:25] fry, and then probably a free step and then a fry. So if you're not willing to do all that crap, like with a soak beforehand. You know, you have some sort of soak, whether or not you use the enzyme or not. So, like, you're talking about a several hour prep and do it. So most people are like, I'm going to make a high quality French. See, here's the thing. Here's the thing. Orita, right? or whoever you're buying your French fries from when you're buying Cisco, whatever it is, like, yeah, yeah, most of the stuff they make is Drek compared to what could be made at home, but they have a lot of research,

[48:51] time, and decades of French fry under their belts, right? And also frying french fries from frozen turns out to be a good way to get good crust texture. So I often, depending, especially if I can't do my enzyme treatment, I will freeze my fries because for a quality reason, right?

[49:07] So you're going up against, it's like trying to make ketchup. Like Heinz does a good job. You know what I mean? So you, in order to do a better job, you have to actually put in more work than

[49:18] you think. And most people who make their own French fries, simply don't know how to do it or they don't care. You know what I mean? Okay, we have one more. I want to, uh, get in before we go. Uh, let's see, one more, hold a second. Okay, you ready for this? is a complicated one. Uh, we have a call, by the way, the best uh, Twitter thing, a

[49:39] Jews Bouche, a Jews Bouche. I guess he's Orthodox. David Statman. Orthodox. So anyways, he wants to use the seers all on Sabbath, right? So here's the thing. He's like, you're allowed to transfer a flame, but you're not allowed to make a flame. So the Burns Matic TS 8000 that we use. You press the button, click, click, click, click, right? And it causes the frame and it's flame. And so he's saying the button's the problem, right? And then, but transferring the flame's okay. So he wants to get a different torch and uh, and pass uh, basically just turn the gas on and pass uh, the flame to the sears all that way. My feeling is, uh, David. Now, I'm no rabbi. But my feeling is the same. No rabbit. Are you sure? pretty sure. But my feeling is that you are not allowed to turn the valve on. Can anyone do that? Jack? while we're signing up. Can you do a quick search on whether or not you're allowed to open and close valves on the Sabbath?

[50:37] Yes. Yeah. I don't believe you're allowed to open and close vowels on the Sabbath. sounds dubious. Yes, I don't, because I would believe that that's the functional equivalent of a circuit and you can't turn circuits off and on. Anyways, so my feeling is you're going to be shafted on the valve. Now, what you could do, what we could do, is you could hook, don't do this. incredibly unsafe. Please don't do this. But you can hook up a timer to turn on a torch at a specific time,

[51:02] uh, including the Piso ignition, and as long as you set it up, right, at the right time, you

[51:07] can do another option is that you could, you need to go read Alan Dundas's book,

[51:12] uh, The Sabbath Elevator. Okay? There's a whole book on the Sabbath elevator by a guy named Alan Dundas, who, interesting in life,

[51:18] found, interestingly, found out only about things like the Sabbath elevator late in his life. He's a folklore expert, even though he's actually, he's Jewish, but he just didn't know much about it, I guess. I't know why he's not doing the research. And uh, he uh, did a bunch of uh, stuff on when it is okay to use, uh, you know, the uh, the uh, Sabbath boy, right? So, for instance, in the elevator, like technically, you know, I can push the button for you, because I'm a boy, although you got to make sure that I'm not Jewish, because if I'm

[51:46] Jewish but not practicing, like, that's not cool, but you're not technically supposed to be like, hey, dude, can you press that button? They just have to know to do it, right? So you have to pre-hire the goi to show up, invite a goi to dinner on Sabbath. is my plan. And invite a go to dinner on Sabbath and tell them, like, you know, when you get here, Uh, when you get here, it might be

[52:06] nice, like, when I lift my hand in the air, if you were to take my TS 8000, ignite it and depress the button that keeps it on. And then they could do that, and then you could sear with it, and then you'd be like, and then they would know that when you put it down, you'd be like,

[52:21] hey, when I put the thing down, it might be nice if it didn't stay on and burn my house down.

[52:24] You know what I mean? Yeah, Siri's all going. Sears all going. No valves. No valves. See? You're going to have to go with the sears all goi. Sears all go. We'll come back in one month, cooking issues. Thanks for listening to this program on heritageradionetwork.org. You can find all of our archived programs on our website or as podcasts in the iTunes

[52:48] store by searching Heritage Radio Network. You can like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter at Heritage underscore radio. You can email us with questions anytime at info@heritageradionetwork.org. HeritageRadio Network is a 501c3 nonprofit. To donate and become a member, visit our website today. Thanks for listening.