[0:00] Today's program is brought to you by Whole Foods Market, a dynamic leader in the quality food business, a mission driven company that aims to set the standards of excellence for food retailers.

[0:09] For more information, visit Wholefoodsmarket.com. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, I'm Jimmy Carboni from Beer Sessions Radio. You're listening to Heritage Radio Network broadcasting live from Bushwick, Brooklyn. If you like this program, visit heritageraternetwork.org for 1000s more. Hey, hey, I'm Jim. Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues, not Jimmy Carbone, coming to you live on the Heritage Radio Network

[0:41] for Roberta's Pizzeria in Bushwick. Call your questions two. 718-497-2128. That 718-497-2128. Stas, you like how I put a little Broadway to that? Did you see what that lady did? No, what you do. Looked at you with the disgusted look. Well, because I put the Broadway in my voice and she's clearly not a Broadway. Did you enjoy the... A customer? customer? Oh, cool. whatever. Like, that seat was there to punish customers. You know, they only put people there. that they hate that seat. Only when there's not a radio show going on, at least not when we're doing it. I mean, you know, you know what I'm saying? So, we are joined in the studio today with Nastasia the Hammer Lopez. Peter's coming for lunch Again, this is information that the people in out there in cooking issues, Land, don't need to know. I think they care. Yeah, but he's not here for them. not here for them. Hey, by the way, odds are Peter Kim took a shower this morning. No, no, I'm saying you know what? At some point this evening, Peter Kim will go to sleep, and then tomorrow he's going to wake up when he's thirsty, as David Letterman used to say, he will drink a cool, refreshing beverage, and it will slake his thirst. I mean, he's not going to be here to like, you know, for their benefit, so what the hell do they care? People like Peter Kim, I thought, but that's fine. But that's not like... Jack, are you with me on this at all? Join the booth also about Jackie Molecules? I don't know. There are some Peter Kim fans in the chat room. But I'm saying, like, that's even meaner then. Peter's not going to be here with you. that's what Stas is doing. She torturing them. It's like Peter's going to join us for lunch, but he won't grace you with his presence on the show, you know? Wow. Grace. Okay. Grace. So, unfortunately, not joined via telephone today with Professor Richard Rangham of the Harvard

[2:24] University. Apparently, do you have a want wan noise in there, Jack? So strong, so strong. I wish I wish I played like a trumpet or anything like brass so that I could put a hat over the front of it and make that

[2:42] noise. You know what I mean? It's just such a classic. It's like in your face. Can I hear that one more time? Wait. But what you do have is a boat. Oh my god. I mean, did you see it, Jack? Look, that might be one of the reasons. So here's the thing. The doctor gave me like free reign now to do whatever I want. Like I can take up my amateur career in boxing again. I have an amateur career in boxing. With my eye, like my eyes. But then over the weekend, I literally tore a muscle in my

[3:13] arm ripping vines out of the ground in advance of them bloomings. Actually, I don't know. My wife is like, you need to go to the doctor. And I'm like, what the hell are they going to do about it? My arm hurts. Like, what does a torn, what does a torn thing feel like? Is anyone torn anything ever? Does anyone know what a torn thing feels? That's what they know of. I mean I've broken things. Malcolm says it hurts like hell. Yeah, but is it possible that it hurts? Like, in other words, like, I can move my arm, like, down like this. I can go bibbity, bibbity, bibbity, bibbity, boo, right? Bibbity, bibbity, boo, but I can't extend my arm. Yeah, nostalgia shoulder? No, it's right like on the side of my arm. Like, I can't extend my arm, like, I can't like punch Nastasia as much as I want to with my left hand, or like do like fist pumps in the air of victory with my left arm anymore

[4:02] because of, like, intense, sharp pain. If you tore a muscle, you could be releasing whatever that stuff is. What the hell are you talking about? Like, there's some kind of, yeah, somebody told me that. Okay, yeah, somebody. You sound like Dax who, like, comes with him with the craziest theories from his dirtbag buddies, the craziest freaking

[4:21] theories. Wow, dirtbag buddies is great band name. Oh my god, it's the best, right? Dirtbag buddies. Um, I use the term dirtbag buddy so much that I've actually called Dax's friends, dirtbag buddies, in front of the dirtbag

[4:37] buddy's parents by mistake. I'm like, yeah, Dax is out with his dirt bag buddies. I mean not your kid. Your kid's not a dirtbag. I mean, they are. know what I mean? You know how it is. All kids are kind of dirtbags, right? But we love them. Look, I don't know that we have time to get into the boat. Look, I was at the dump, right? As I am wont to be at the dump and I picked up a, someone threw away a boat. Turns out it was made for the Sears and robot corporation in the mid 60s. It is a 14 foot fiberglass runabout, but the hole is fine. All I need to do is find a net. I found out later I can buy one of these for like $3.50 and I'm going to have a tough time getting it registered because it has no

[5:17] owner and I can't find an owner and you have to? Yeah. It's like, you can't just like suddenly show up at the DMV with a car and being like, hey, where'd it come from? I found it. You know what I mean? It turns out you can't do that with a boat either. Be like, what is it? The dump gonna write you an affidavit. Yeah, yeah, that was dumped off here. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? How you register a boat that doesn't exist? Plus, I have to do a lot of fiberglass work. I have... You could go to the Sears company and you could give the thing. No, they don't make it. like Kenmore. don't make any of that stuff They don't make any of that stuff. And there's no online, there's no online way to trace boat ownership because I have the old Connecticut registration number on it. Anyway, it's not worth the amount of time and energy I'm going to put into this dang thing, but I definitely want to get that son of a gun out on the water. It's got a really cool, like, curved front windshield. It kind of Robin's egg. It's really nifty And the wood is still good. It's got a couple of problems, like all the metal is stripped off by freaking scavenger freak shows. You know, people show up at dumps with screwdrivers, just take off little pieces of metal. I mean whatever. It's good business, I guess. whatever. Uh, point being, uh, we, I have, I have a couple people. Remember Captain Jeff, Crazy Jeff intern. Yeah, he's a captain then? He is a Coast Guard. one of my favorite, like, cooking guys, Coast Guard, lunatic. He used to captain one of those rescue boats that can flip over in the water where in order to be on it, registrant, you have to strap yourself to the top side and it capsizes and it takes like a full minute to flip

[6:42] around so you have to hold your breath underwater the whole time. He's the guy that married the judge and that he had a hearing in front of for some sort of crazy like 200 mile an hour speeding ticket or some nonsense on his motorcycle. That's a real story. No, it is a real story. And dude, the guy back when he was in the in the service was a demolitions expert. Guy's a straight nut job. Wow. Love that guy. Look, that guy, I don't know if anyone listening, why this person doesn't have some sort of a TV show, I have no freaking idea. It kind of looks like, what's the guy on the big Lebowski, his friend? I don't know. I haven't seen it. Who's an athletes him? Yeah. Anyway, he went to the French Culinary Institute, and so, you know, he's

[7:24] a, he's a cooking guy as well, but I mean, man, he is like, he's like the Long Island version of Duck Dynasty without the beard. You know what I mean? He's like, you know what I'm saying? We gotta get him on the show. Yeah, sure. I love that guy He's a good guy. He always brings a gun with him. I don't know whether he still has his concealed carry, but he wants... okay I shouldn't say this, but since it's all over, I think it's okay. He was once packing freaking heat at the French culinary under his whites. Who are you going to shoot in the head at the French coat? Oh, plenty. Yeah, wow. Plenty. Anyway. All right. So we have some questions to get to. So we might as well get to them. Oh, you said when's the ring I'm gonna come on now? May 3rd. May third, huh? Unless he decides to cancel again. You know, I was going to be very favorable towards him on, not I mean, what his theories or his theories, but like there's some people who have come out kind of against his theories. I was talking about him last week. And I was going to, like, say all sorts of unpleasant things about them, but maybe now would be a little... No, not really, you know, me. Like I'm going to be excited to talk to him when he finally comes on, but whatever. Uh, so I'm sorry, there will be no Paleolithic discussions. There'll be no discussions of uh, division of labor, uh, early in humans. There will be no discussions of tuber consumption in

[8:45] Paleo, Africa. It won't happen right now. Tell me. Till May. Tell me. All right. Kevin writes in, supporting you, actually, Nastasia. I know, me. I know. Stars. But you weren't thinking of these freaking things. You never had one of these things. The shrimp things you saw. Well, whatever. Let me read the thing. Oh, before people get all pretzled up. I have a comment and a couple of questions. Regarding the use, when you see RE, do you say regarding or do you say RE? I say regarding. Yeah. I'm going to start saying regarding, that's a lot better than saying RE. Yeah. Can we just there's a girl dressed in some kind of ancient garb out there. You see her? see someone in a red jacket. Her back is to us and she's putting a headpiece on. Now watch the front. Are you making... Why are you making fun of someone's clothes? It's so crazy. Do you want to take a collar before you get to this? Yeah, okay. She's not wearing a... She's got a Xena warrior princess out and on, but it's not ancient. It's Zena is not ancient. That's New Zealand modern. Okay, yeah. She's through the pipe. All right, yeah, call is the color there? Color. You on the air? Are you? Hello? Hello? here. Hello. It's Stephen from Indianapolis. How are you doing? All right, how you doing? Doing great. I had a question. Uh, you brought up, uh, I think like 2 or 3 weeks ago about the

[10:03] Lawahi bread method. And we're going to talk about it again later. Go ahead. What were you saying? Sorry. Oh, no, and I think we might have to address it again later, but let's just hit it now. Let's just do it now. Go. Okay, well, my question was, um, so when you're looking at

[10:19] the the gluten development in the Lahi bread method, I actually have like 2 breads going in my closet right

[10:24] now over 18 hours and it's supposed to align and mature the gluten. Uh, and I know that like when you're making, and I, I, I try and consider like what you're doing with gluten in the way of, like when you're making

[10:35] stretch noodles, you're lining up the gluten, right? How does the gluten mature in each situation? How is it different? Okay, well, you know, one of the theories, right? The theory of operation here on the on the no need and on a lot of stuff is that actually a lot of what you're doing when you're developing a dough simply isn't necessarily the aligning per se, but the actual hydration of the gluten.

[11:01] I remember, you're going way back. I haven't actually thoroughly researched this subject in a long, long time, but that a lot of the strength of gluten is coming from strength of the gluten network isn't coming from the aligning, but rather the hydration and then the bonding of the gluten network,

[11:22] right? And so that if you just let it sit there. And this is why, you know, also, I mean, most of these, uh, most of these breads are fairly high hydration, right? Like what's the hydration ratio on your, what do you got? Um, so it's uh, 400 grams of flower, 300 grams of water, so 75%? Yeah. Yes, that's fairly high hydration, right? I mean, by the way, for those of you that don't bake bread out there,

[11:45] hydration in bread language. And in fact, I use this for like a lot of stuff, whenever I'm dealing with flowers, is a bakered percentage. So it's liquid expressed as a percentage of the flour that you put in. Right, it's not overall. It's just over. It's just over the flower. I mean, because most of the time when you're making bread, the rest of the stuff is so minimal anyway, so you're not counting like yeast and salt or any other

[12:07] adjunct you're adding. But anyway, um, so they're fairly high hydration, right? And just by letting them sit around for a long time, the

[12:15] gluten hydrates over hours and forms and network. And then usually, right, now, correct me if I'm wrong, but even in like the most simple one,

[12:25] you have like an over, over, over, overstep inside of the inside of the, uh, whatever you're going to do to give it structure, right? Right, right, yes. Right. And so I think that is where, like, a lot of that stretching is super important is forming the internal structure of the bread.

[12:46] And frankly, that's where like a lot of people uh, kind of fall short within within no need. where McGee, if you go back and read Harold McGee's articles on it, article on it in the New York Times, I think his main his main point is the bread is delicious. However, it's not necessarily easy using that technique to get a wide variety of internal structures on the bread,

[13:09] right? Because it's fairly high hydration and there's not a lot of work. Whereas if you look at a lot of classic, uh, classic bread, um, a lot of classic breads, there's 2 things that are going on in the bread,

[13:23] there, uh, well, 1000000s of things going on bread. I mean, in other words, there's the recipe itself, right? And then there's how it's manipulated. And only part of that manipulation. And I would say, from a functional standpoint, the least important part of that manipulation is how the bread is needed, right?

[13:40] It's getting it to a certain point of development in terms of its gluten structure extremely important, right? But then once you get past that, then like different forming techniques take on their relative importance to give us the different shapes, the different outside crust textures, what the burst looks

[13:58] like when it's slashed, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And so most of the criticisms I've heard of these relatively high hydration, relatively unworked

[14:07] bread is, frankly, their lack of internal structure. Okay, so when you're looking at, like, the difference in structure between, like, a pulled noodle, which I've actually

[14:18] attempted and it ended up miserably. Whose recipe did you use? What was that? Were you using the Chef Tom recipe? Uh, yeah, yeah, I was. Okay. Um, and uh, and I tried to, and I even did it like, like slapping it on the table like they do in the, you know, just to try and relax the gluten.

[14:37] But I know that that's lineearizing the gluten. When you're making bread, it's actually like the kneading is really important in the structure of the bread because of the way that you're organizing the gluten after the proof.

[14:47] Well, yeah, here's a couple things on the noodle recipe. My mental understanding of what's going on watching people make it, right, is you have actually an extremely slack dough. There's almost no elasticity to that thing, right? So in my mind, you're dealing with a situation where the gluten has been kind of

[15:09] beat, literally, beaten into submission, right? So the structure of the dough is lineearized, but the actual gluten has been put into some sort of compromised form,

[15:21] right? Clearly. Because if you take a well-developed dough, right? And you, you know, that you've needed a lot, and you push into it, it has some elasticity, it comes back, you stretch it, it stretches back. That's why, you know, um, That's why it does that. You can stretch it out thin because it's elastic, but if you just take a big hunk of dough and go, should

[15:42] bluebe, it has some, it has some kind of pull to it. That's what the gluten, you know what I'm saying? And so it's definitely an overdeveloped dough, right? Now then the, but on the other hand, then why do they need to add, uh, why do they add a base to it, right? So base is strengthening the gluten. I don't know whether that's making it for quicker overdevelopment. I really don't understand it, but I felt the dough that you've made, and it feels dead in your hands, right? So pulled noodle dough in your hands. I'm sure you felt it too when you did it. It feels weird and dead. You know what I'm saying? because it doesn't have that kind of life that like an elastic kind of gluteny or like even like a pizza dough or something like that would have. Um, So frankly, I've never had good luck with that recipe either. Uh, my feeling is, is that pulled noodles is one of those things that, uh, once you get it right once or twice, you're going to get it right forever. You know what I'm saying? But it's a lot about, uh, the hydration and getting the texture uh, exactly right. Because, you know, the people I see doing it down, you know, the block from where I live. You know, I look at them and I don't, you know, think of them as being like some sort of, you know, enlightened Buddha. You know what I mean? They're not like some sort of being from on high that is given the knowledge of how to make noodles. you know, they probably just hung out with someone who knew how to do it. And then, like, so even Chef Tom, who, uh, I don't know what he's doing now, but he was maybe still is teaching at the at the cooking school that the French culinary owns out in San Jose. Um, I bet you, even if you hung out with him for a day, you could probably get it right. You know what I mean? It's all a question of just get it. There's some there's something to it to the feel of it that if you just get it right, it's going to go. But my feeling about it has always been that it's an overdeveloped dough. And so I wouldn't necessarily, in other words, if you were to take that dough, and you were to, uh, you know, somehow add yeast to it after you did that to it. I don't think it would make great bread. Right, right, right. Okay, and I guess one more point, and sorry, sorry for the multiple questions, but one more point to it is the difference between

[17:52] the, the, the, the stretch, though, and ramen, right? They both have bass in them, but is there such thing as, so is it, is it a mechanical denaturation of the gluten? I'm a chemist, so I know it from like a chemical standpoint in the temperatures to in a thermal standpoint, but not like a, like, is there such thing as mechanical

[18:08] denageration of gluten? Well, I mean, look, I, I, from an actual, um, chemical standpoint, I don't know. I do know that if you look at the farinographs of, um, so they would hook up, uh, you know, um, measurement devices to mixers, basically, and measure how much energy was being put into a mixer over time uh, in

[18:29] dough development. It called a farinograph. And I think it is. I mean, I haven't looked at them in years, but you look at it and there's definitely a peak force that it takes to mix it and a breakdown stage.

[18:40] So what that, yeah, what that would lead me to believe is that there's some sort of peak development after which there's destruction of that network, whether or not it recovers

[18:50] again. Anecdotally, people say it does not, right? And there, and there are other, there are other does that are, that are based on the destruction of the dough structure, the most famous in the

[19:03] US being beaten biscuits, right? So where you'll take a dough and you'll just beat the beat the ever loving snot out of it with

[19:14] a with a rolling pan. I went through a period years ago where I was trying to make that dough via repeated lamination instead of actual physical violence and I was never able to get the exact texture through repeated lamination that I was able to get through the just immense physical violence of beating with large

[19:33] sticks. Okay. Interesting. All right, thank you, Dave. I appreciate it. Hey, no problem. and let us know how it goes. Today's program is proudly brought to you by Whole Foods Market, America's healthiest grocery store with more than 400 locations throughout the United States. Download the Whole Foods Market app on your smartphone for recipes, sales, information, and digital coupons, or visit Whole Foods Market.com to find a store closest to you. Have you listened to a taste of the past? It's a show devoted to connecting our current food world with its storied past. Host and culinary historian Linda Pelaccio. Welcome chefs, scientists, authors, scholars, and revolutionaries into the studio to discuss food culture and history from around the globe.

[20:21] Have you seen the culture of food change over the past

[20:25] 25, 30 years? It's been incredible. Linda covers content ranging from the history of black chefs in the White House to behavioral psychology and the evolution of Italian food in America. You can listen to a taste of the past anytime on heritageradionetwork.org or on iTunes and Stitcher. Today's program was brought to you by the 2016 Food and Enterprise Summit, presented by Slow Money NYC. Want to learn how to finance a better food system? Are you ready to showcase your food business or product in front of New York's top players in the food industry? Join like-minded entrepreneurs and investors at the 2016

[21:01] Food and Enterprise Summit in Bushwick, Brooklyn. Tickets available at foodandenterprise.com. Save 20% when you enter special discount code Friends 20 for heritage radio network listeners. And so, and on that subject, you know, someone was saying... Oh, I have another call. Yeah, we do, but do you want to get to the thing, the shrimp thing first? Well, no, no, well, hold on. Yeah, well, yeah, call her you're on the air. Hi, Dave, it's David from California here. How you doing? Hey, good. Um, I'm going to be designing, uh, well, I'm designing a house, uh, for me and my family, but I was wondering if you had some tips about kitchen

[21:39] design. Um, maybe just uh, whatever comes to your mind, although keep in mind that I'm probably going to be in an all electric situation, so no gas.

[21:49] Okay. Are you like what area of California and what kind of neighborhood is it? Uh, well, I'm actually up in the mountains. Uh, and so we're at 6000 foot altitude, um, and it's, it can be cold. Oh nice. You're in the land of sugar pine cones, huh? Beautiful. I love it over there. Are you in the Sierras somewhere or somewhere, some other mountains in California? So, um, kind of sort of near Big Bear. in Southern California. you know where that is? Yeah, southern. I only know like, yeah. All right. What are you, stars? you know that stuff? St is like, yeah, I'm from down near there. Okay. So here's what I would say. I would say there are some things. I mean, go induction. If you're going to go electric to go induction, period. You know what I'm saying? And then get, you know, your range is going to be fine induction. How big is your family? Uh, just my wife and uh, a baby for for now. Well, congratulations on the baby. And are you going to try to integrate indoor and outdoor cooking? I'm sorry Are you gonna do have like an indoor outdoor situation? Are you going to try to have some of your cooking take place outdoors? Uh, yeah, I mean, I have a barbecue and a smoker. Um, although, uh, uh, that, you know, that's not the bulk of what I do. So what's the bulk of what you do? What do you like to cook? Um, I'm kind of a, uh, you know, a steak and potatoes kind of guy. although I am a deep fried maniac like you are. So, like, I'm going to say this up front. outside the house, like, like, I like having access from the kitchen to an outdoor place where the cooking

[23:34] is. So if you're ever going to do cooking outside, like whether it be grilling or the stuff I'm about to talk about, you want to have very fluid and easy access between your main kitchen and outside and you want that outside cooking area to have a cover on

[23:50] it, right? So you either want to build a separate cover for it or you want to have it close to the house where there's an

[23:55] Eve that extends over it such that you can work. That's what I have. And you're going to want to put a deep fryer out there. You're going to want an outdoor deep fryer. I would run that sucker off of propane, which you can get so you don't have to worry about plumbing gas to the house. And since you're not going to use it every day, you can run it off of £20 things and it's not going to bankrupt you. I'm just going to make that suggestion right now. And you can, and, you know, take it for what it is, but like my, my situation like that works great because I have outside. I have the tandor, the fryer, and like an outdoor, um, prep station where I can work that's all protected from the rain. And I love that. it's right next to where my kitchen is Now it's not perfect because it wasn't designed, but it's pretty good for moving indoor and

[24:35] outdoor and getting large amounts of food in and out properly because sometimes we'll be cooking outside and eating inside and vice versa and all that other stuff.

[24:42] Inside, I would definitely go. I would 100% go induction. Um, the main thing I would like worry about is I don't know how you, you know, your relationship with, um, your spouse is or what they like, but the fight usually is between, uh, between

[25:00] visible, uh, cooks and the non-cooks is between visible, uh, exposed storage of things and closed in. I'm a huge advocate for trying to have as much non-enclosed storage as is humanly

[25:11] possible and throwing away as many non-matching things as

[25:17] is humanly possible. And this usually comes at odds because people think it's ugly. Also, if you don't cook a lot, exposed storage gets dusty, but if you do cook a lot, then you do what I do, which

[25:29] is I have like 4 sizes of bowl, and I only have those 4 sizes of stainless steel

[25:34] bowl, and they stack, and you're always pulling the one on top, so it never gets dusty.

[25:38] You know what I'm saying? You have to dust the shelves and stuff, but the things themselves never get dusty. So I'm a huge advocate of that. Here's another one. Build a build a speed rack, not a bar speed rack, but a, like one of those cooling racks that, uh, that tray, uh, tray rack speed rack that you can put, uh, sheet trays into. Build one of those if you ever like entertaining. Build one of those into your kitchen. I have one that's on casters and it can roll in and out and I have one, you know, in my apartment that doesn't. And you can just, you know how when you're cooking, you have like a bunch of

[26:13] food and you can't get that food out of the way to cook the next round of food if you're doing like a party or something like

[26:19] this. If you have one of those rack trays. You can just, you can just sheet up entirely huge amounts of stuff and throw it into the sheet rack while you're working on the next thing or like if you're like

[26:30] me and let's say you make Christmas cookies. I mean, I don't know what you do, but let's say you're like me and you make Christmas cookies. You want to make a whole bunch of Christmas cookies. Normally these things will be spread all over your house. it would be a freaking nightmare while you're making them. But if you have one of these speed rack things, you can just start throwing

[26:45] the sheet trays into a tray after tray after tray. So I would make sure that A, your oven can handle a full-size sheet tray because it's just so versatile if you're ever going to do entertaining. I would uh, electric. I would then, if I were you, I would use, I would go into someplace, whatever oven you're going to get, I would go in and use it a couple times. Like, I hate, hate a lot of the control functions on modern electric ovens. Like, for instance, like, I have an, one of my ovens is an electric oven, right? You know what I use it for? You know what I use it for 80% of the time? Warming, warming. 80% of the time. It a warming oven. So like, I'll be cooking a bunch of stuff in my tandor or on the grill, or I'll have like a whole bunch of pancakes that I'm making on the griddle, right? And then I want to keep them warm. But every time that I uh, every time that I want to uh, use the oven to keep it warm, it takes me 35 to 45 seconds to turn it on and turn the temperature down because they, you know, they assume that when you press go on your oven, you want it

[27:48] at 350. And so to make it, say, 170, you have to sit there forever with your finger on a button, hate, hate.

[27:54] So I would look into things like that. Actually, if you can believe it, Dave, I have a CVAP. Ah, yeah, yeah. See, so, you know, you didn't tell me this. Now you go entirely different. So if I were you, here's something like, it depends on how sustainable you want to be, right? One of my dreams, and no one has ever done it. In fact, although it's, uh, not any Armstrong, Louis Armstrong, the musician, right? what's it called? a dishwasher? No, dishwasher. Commercial dishwasher, right? Why doesn't anyone make a commercial dishwasher that has a residential mode that says,

[28:31] hey, look it. I have an hour to sit here while you wash dishes, right? And you can be eco-friendly, blah, blah, and quiet, all bosch like. You know what I'm saying? And then, but it's like, I have a party. There's 30 people here, cook the dishes, clean them, clean them, clean them, clean them. And then you press it and they're clean in a minute, a minute and a half, like a commercial dishwasher. And for that minute and a half during the party, yeah, tremendous energy

[28:54] waste, but it's only for that short amount of time. Why doesn't no one build that? Why does nobody build that, David? Why? Yeah. So you know what people do? You know what people with money have to freaking do? By 2 dishwashers. What a freaking waste of kitchen space, 2 dishwashers is. But it's the only way to get around it. If you're a party master, because you're going to wind up, like your kitchen's going to fill with dishes. People have commercial dishwashers in their house. Who? I've seen them Who? I've seen them. Really rich people. Yeah, but they're not good for normal use because they're entirely, so you have to have a

[29:28] commercial, and then you have to have a, but you have to have a commercial, and then you have to have a regular residential unless you hate the environment. Do you hate the environment, Nastasia? Well, you know, he lives in California. He's not allowed to hate the environment. He lives in the mountains. He's not allowed. like you physically you're not allowed. You'd be looked down upon by everyone in your community. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? in the mountains. Yeah, especially in the mountains. Why would you live in the mountains if you didn't like the environment? Yeah, but residential dishwashers run for an hour. Yes, but it doesn't waste much... No, no, no. There's so much more efficient. There's so much more efficient than it seems like it's a waste, but they're very eco-friendly compared with, and they use a lot less power. So that's the other question. You're going to get 220 volts. Oh, thank you, Elliot Papinot, Jonathan Sawyer, the chef at what's the restaurant? The Cleveland chef. Yeah, he's got one. At his house. Does he love it? Does he love, love, love it? I would assume so You know what? It's so freaking easy because someone like Hobart also like can make stuff for home, just

[30:30] like, just like team up with a home person, charge 3 times as much. How many gallon, how much more energy? Oh my god, nostalgia. 1000 times? Oh, I mean, it's like a lot more. They're completely not efficient. First of all, they're they're bad for your dishes because they're running super hot and they have like a little boiler that heaps of that water up to tremendous temperatures. They're just, but they're freaking monsters, huh? Right? And the other thing about him that's nice is that if you have parties a lot, like I have, like, here's what's depressing, right? Commercial glass racks are awesome because you have glasses that you're only

[31:07] going to use at parties, right? So you put them in commercial glass racks and they're so close to fitting in a regular residential freaking dishwasher. So if you just like modified them a little bit, you could store all of your party glasses in racks, you could live like a normal human 90% of the

[31:24] time and then rack and roll when you're putting in having parties, you know what I'm saying? Well, whatever. That's life, big city. Yeah. We do have another color. All right, caller. Caller, you're on the air. Hello? Hello? Hey, uh, it's Josh from Virginia. Um, I had a quick question on if you had any advice to control bubble size

[31:45] when uh, carbonation, uh, carbonating cocktails out of a COP tank. We're running a CO2 tank through at the hose in the uh, you know, screw on cap. Okay. Okay, how are the bubbles now and which way do you want them to go? They're really, really small, like Perrier-esque. And I would like to get them up larger towards, like, Toko Chico size, ideally. So like a kind of mix of medium and large. Okay. So, for a given liquid, right? For a given liquid, bubble size is going to be determined 100% by the amount of CO2 that is in the beverage and the temperature that it's

[32:29] at. In other words, like how fast the CO2 is leaving, is going to determine the bubble size. So, uh, one thing to do is to get your CO2 your CO2 dissolved, not necessarily the pressure you're carbonating at, but getting the dissolved CO2 level to be much higher.

[32:46] So ways to do that are to make it colder, right? Or to make it clearer or to uh, carbonate it um, multiple times or more times than you're doing now with a lot of foaming off in between to make sure that you're getting the maximum amount of CO2 in

[33:04] there. So if you have your thing and you let it sit for like 15, 20 minutes, if you reattach your CO2 tank and start shaking it again and you hear the gas going from the tank into your beverage, it means

[33:15] you haven't fully added as much CO2 to that beverage as is possible.

[33:20] Okay? So within a given beverage. The bubble size will be determined by those things. And for instance, for note on temperature, just think about when you crack open a cold cell server versus when you crack open a warm seltzer and the bubble size difference

[33:33] there just because the bubbles are leaving at a tremendously faster rate. And so the bubbles get bigger as they're traveling from the bottom to the top of the glass. Really, once a bubble forms. Its size is pretty much dependent on, A, the characteristics to the liquid, which we're going to talk about in a minute, and how fast CO2 is leaving the liquid and going into that bubble in the short time it has from when it forms near the bottom of your glass to when it bursts on the surface of the liquid,

[33:59] right? Okay. So now we've dealt with those kind of physical factors. And there's a liquid itself. So, uh, things like salt, uh, like the

[34:08] larger that they dissolve mineral content in it, the kind of smaller, the bubble perception is going to

[34:15] be and the size of the bubble is going to be. That's why like a lot of fairly carbonated, like very mineralized waters don't appear to be that

[34:22] bubbly, even though there actually is a lot of CO2 in them. I'm talking to you, German waters. And, um, the, you know, other thing, it's gonna,

[34:31] it's like alcohol content, so if you want larger bubbles, you lower the alcohol content, um, or anything like that that affects

[34:38] the uh, surface activity of the liquid, right? So, um, you know, increasing the alcohol content will decrease the surface uh, tension and increase of viscosity. And so your bubbles will start getting larger and foamier, right? So at least that's my, it's been a while since I, I think that's right. But anyway, so like there's a liquid itself, but I would focus on physical things first. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. All right. Let us know how it works. Yeah, well, thanks. Cool. Wow. All right. So let's get, so what were we talking about? Tortoise. This isn't even a question. It's a comment. Torta, okay, regarding the use of torta, tamine sandwich and Mexican cuisine. and just so you know, this is from Kevin, and he's defending Nastasia, the Hammer, Lopez, Kevin, defending Stas, like she needs someone to defend

[35:25] her. Please, please. Torta definitely means sandwich. How do you, no tangents, no tangents. Tota definitely means sandwich. However, I've also seen it used commonly in Mexico to mean something like a fritter slash patty. Right? Which is not what you said, Nastasia. Because my sister had this like... You said folded fried, yeah. Folded nest. Hey, whoa, whoa, family show. No, Laren's in enough. Oh geez. They'll learn. Let him learn. It's like, you know, your kid stubs stubs their toe. They like, oh, it hurts. get used to get used to pain. My mom makes tortos de Cameroon, which is basically a whipped egg and ground shrimp mix that's pan fried. By the way, I've had that. I just thought I'd share since I never really thought about how a torture refers to both until your sandwich conversation this week.

[36:16] I actually like those things. You ever had those? I think they're made with dried shrimp. They have that dried shrimp taste, but they're good. It's like they're like, they're like little patties and I think they're served like in like a, I think it's a tomato-y sauce. I've had them. Um, I've had at least a style that comes from Guerrero. They're good. I like them, but they're not a sandwich. They're not even an open face sandwich, which as we all know. not a sandwich. Uh, here's the question. My friend and I were talking about people cooking ethnic food of a culture that is not their own.

[36:45] There was a recent NPR article on this where Rick Bayliss was featured. When my friend asked me if there's a certain form slash presentation that differentiates

[36:54] high-end food from plebeian food. What are your thoughts on this? Um, Well, I don't know. What are your thoughts on that stuff? I don't know I have some thoughts on it, if you don't have thoughts. I mean, I thought... What was the, what's the issue here? So the question is, is like when you're taking another ethnic food, right? Why is it, this is what I get out of it. Why is it that a lot of times it can be seen as low end or why is it difficult sometimes to go high end with certain ethnic cuisines? And furthermore, why, you know, why is it that some presentations are seen as highbrow and some are seen as lowbrow when you're

[37:33] going, and I'll give you an example. Like, many years ago, I went to, and even recently, you go to like a French restaurant and they do something that

[37:41] is, like they put 5 spice powder on it, right? They go, they go Asian in that sort of very, very kind of pedestrian sense of just putting 5 spice powder on it.

[37:50] Like, all of a sudden, like, for a lot of taste, for a lot of consumers, it's going to get knocked a couple pegs down in refinement in their minds just because they associate certain flavor

[38:02] palettes and they associate certain cooking techniques and presentations with less expensive cuisines,

[38:11] right? And we've had this discussion a little bit regarding Mexican cuisine when I, when we got back from Mexico and we were, I was upset that there's no way you're ever going to have those Florida Calabasa freaking quesadillas, like you have in Mexico because no stupid

[38:25] idiot America. I love Americans, but none of us are smart enough to pay what it would cost to have those kind

[38:33] of, whereas Italian is allowed to be simple, rustic, and refined at the same time, not to the level of like French, right? But everyone knows that you're paying for these fancy ingredients. And so you'll pay a lot for something simple if it's got an Italian label on it. Stupac makes all the time. He's like, everybody wants cheap, cheap, cheap tacos, cheap, like where are the best cheap tacos? That's the question everybody asks, right? Right. I get what you look for. Right, and nobody, in other words, like, it's very difficult to get someone to spend, you know, a lot of money on something that they don't feel is that different

[39:03] from, that's the thing. It's like perceived difference and perceived value. So the question is, how do you get someone? So at Empeon Casino, for instance, he's not doing, you know, really, it's not really Mexican

[39:15] food. He's inspired by that stuff, but it's like you can see the presentation work on the plate. And the kind of work. And so it gets to jump into a high, you know, into a high level kind of

[39:26] a situation. So, or if you go, like, Nastasia and I were at Cosme last week, Enrique Alvera's restaurant here in New York, and, you know, and so there I think they successfully are jumping to a high-end presentation, but it's because it's a bunch of stuff that no one here has ever tasted before, right?

[39:43] Ingredients that never tasted before. So some of the stuff, you know, makes sense like tortillas, right? But, you know, but a lot of the stuff is, is, is, um, you know, not the flavor palate that people are used to. And so they're, they can take the jump out of their mind and, you know,

[39:57] not, like Americans, and maybe people in the world aren't necessarily smart enough to understand a very, very well executed plate of beans being worth a lot of money,

[40:08] right? I mean, the exception is risotto. For some reason, people realize that risotto is difficult, and so you can spend a lot of money on like a risotto Milanese and not feel ripped off, right, Stas? Um, I don't know. Like another way, like if you look at, uh, you know, Danny Bowen at Mission Chinese, right? So, Chinese food other than banquet cuisine, where you're spending money just on really, really expensive materials, like

[40:36] sharks fan, and, you know, not that you should buy, I mean, obviously you shouldn't, but or bird's nest or see cucumber or any one of these other things. Like, um, you know, it's hard to get people to spend a lot of money on that in the

[40:48] US if it tastes traditional. I mean, I think that was the genius of someone like uh, Danny at Mission Chinese was having it be, not that it's that expensive compared to, you know, what we think of as

[40:59] high, high end, but it's like uh, having something being so not what you're used to tasting in that category so different from what you would get at the standard restaurants that it gets to punch through that barrier and go on the other

[41:10] side. You know what I'm saying? Side note tangent. I just bought a whole bunch of the red Sichuan peppercorns, got them at home. That kind of mopo numbing thing. Yeah, get emission. Yeah, you like those? He uses them at the absolute limit of what I find enjoyable.

[41:25] Yeah, exactly. right at the limit. Right at that limit. And in fact, it's funny. It's weird with it's weird with certain lines. It's weird with a lot of wines, that stuff. One more note on Mission Chinese before we get kicked off the air, and I'm missing all the other questions I have to answer. But, uh, something I didn't understand. You know they have a wood fired oven at Mission Chinese, did you know that? Yeah. And so like they use it for a bunch of presentations, but because they had the wood fired oven, they kind

[41:48] of they make these pizzas there, right? These kind of like Neapolitan style kind of pizzas, they make one with pepperoni on it. And for a while after I know they had it, I was like, why do they why do they do that, right? Why do they have those pizzas there? Because it's not in keeping with the rest of the menu? It doesn't really make sense from a mental point on the menu, right? And then I went there with my kids. And I was like, this is the smartest freaking thing that anyone has ever done at a

[42:13] restaurant. And I think restaurant owners take note of like, it's hard to step outside of yourself, right? And what you do for a living, but I think this is the kind of like where, I mean, not that, you know, Nastasia gave me the

[42:25] face because not like Danny needs anyone or those crew need anyone blowing extra sunshine in their nether regions, but I think they're really good at what they

[42:32] do. You know what I mean? And, um, Like, I never would have thought to do that there because in a way, like, you don't know that you have permission in quotes to make that kind of food at that restaurant, but then now I can shuffle, uh, shove as

[42:45] much uh, mapa tofu into my mouth as I care to shove in my mouth and my kids are sitting there eating pizza and they're happy as clams. Right? And so and then they want to go back. Makes life so much more enjoyable if you have kids. You know what I'm saying? Cooking issues. That's it. All right, thanks. See you next week.

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