[0:00] Today's show is brought to you by Bob's Redmill, sharing nothing but the best in whole grain nutrition and committed to their mission of good food for all. Learn more at bobsredmill.com slash podcast. This episode is brought to you by Jewel, the emerging circulator for sous vide by chef steps. Order now at chefsteps.com slash J-O-U-LE.

[0:28] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold. Your host of cooking is just coming to you live on the Heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from roughly 12 to roughly 1245. from Roberta's Pitoya in Bushwick, Brooklyn. We got a banner date today. Nastasia the Hammer Lopez is not sitting right next to me because she is delayed on the ever problematic L train, which was

[0:49] going to cease to exist pretty soon. rooting from afar. Yeah, yeah. we got Dave in the booth. How you doing, Dave? Good, how you doing? Yeah, what, are you, what, do you know, are you a Easter person, Passover

[1:00] person, and nothing person? What are you? Well, as a matter of fact, I just celebrated Passover in LA, but I grew up

[1:06] an Easter person on the East Coast. Yeah, well, anyway, Dan, if you celebrate Passover, sorry to have you out during the Passover time working.

[1:14] You know what I mean? Yeah, I should go home. Yeah, I mean, like I wouldn't until after this show, but then right after this show, I would just hightail it out of here and just like, you know, peace. I'm out. You know what mean? I need the drill at my house, Dave. Exactly 2 drills. I need 2 holes in the ceiling of my apartment, and there is a complete moratorium on any sort of drilling, literally 2

[1:36] holes, and I would have gotten it done before Passover, but I had lent someone my hammer drill. And so like I had to wait, and now I have to wait. There's nothing more frustrating for someone like me than having to wait to drill 2

[1:47] lousy freaking holes. Yeah, I can see that. Yeah. All right, so we got we got a banner day today while we're waiting for Nastasia introduced the three, count them 3 guests that we have. Uh, I'll go, 1st I'll say we have the often present Peter Kim. The way to take me for granted, do you? I feel very, really special. Peter, I'm really happy to see you. Thank you. Thank you. Somebody. I'm in Peter too. Yeah, yeah. Yes, thank you all very much. Thank you. And Peter Kim, channeling his days of being a Peace Corps volunteer in Cameroon, has purposely turned off the air conditioner in this box so they were roasting a death because he could take pretty much anything. I also have a bunch of yuka, cassava, because I'm working on making baton de manioc, you know, the sticks of cassava. Yeah. So yeah, I am particularly Cameron. The thing about the, those kinds of tubers really are

[2:38] like, they're, I mean, I cook with them, but they're disturbing looking, right? They look like something out of an alien movie. Now I'm missing my man Bill Paxton and his game over, right? Yeah, I think for a lot of people it just looks like food. Did you know Bill Paxton? I'm pretty sure I didn't look at the credits was in the Terminator. I did not realize this until, you know, Dax, my youngest, wanted to see the Terminator, and I was like, all right, you're ready. And I saw it and at the beginning when Arnold Schwarzenegger comes down and it's like, give me your clothes like

[3:04] that. one of those pies. Yeah, well, he's one of the punts. I was like, no, my God. Yeah, awesome, amazing. Also, we have in the studio with us, J.W. Rogers from El Paso, who took Peter and I to Juarez in El Paso a couple of weeks ago. Here we go, El Paso, Texas. Shout out to the border. Yeah, yeah. So I'm in some so tall shots. Now, listen, I don't want you guys calling in and asking him whether he's visited the old El Paso factory. Because, like, he has a... It's not because I think it's a bad question. I've asked him literally every time I've seen him. I was like, have you visited the old El Paso factory yet, and no, he has not visited. He doesn't even know if that factor is in El Paso. My son, Dax, again, has become addicted to old El Paso taco sauce. I just can't get down with that Fair enough, yeah. It's because it's not a nostalgic flavor for me. It just tastes like produced. It's because you're from New York City. New York City. If you remember that commercial, there's a bunch of cowboys sitting around, like, I don't know what they're eating, like beans and

[4:01] they're poop farting or whatever they're doing, like a la blazing saddles, and they say, where's this here taco sauce mate? And I go, New York City, like that. And then they're just like, they don't want to switch brands. But we also have here with a miraculous taste. Now, listen, people, when you're tasting today, no mouth noises into the microphone. People get very mad. with the mouth noises into the microphone. You might know him as at our cook quest on the Twitter. It's, um, and Instagram, and Instagram. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you prefer? It's the same. Mostly Instagram, because, you know, Twitter's gone a little bit commercial and kind of... What does that mean, commercial? I just can't interact with that. Well, this is rich. This is Richie from Boston engineer, friend of the museum, helped us a lot with the flavor exhibition, came in to help us a lot with many development during the Chow

[4:50] exhibition, and is otherwise known just to me, actually, as Captain Koji. So, uh, he's here with a bunch of uh, he's been working, I don't know, what, 3 years? Yeah, yeah, a little under 3 years, probably about 2.5 . On Koji, but like kind of gone kind of Koji crazy. Like, he'll put Koji on anything. Like, you know, like a mouse dies in the cupboard. He'll cover that some gun with Koji and see what happens to it. And so he's brought us a bunch of Koji products. And so, you know, I think there's a good number of people, especially on this show, who are kind of hip to the hip to what Koji is, but why don't you give us the 32nd on

[5:27] Koji? So Koji is basically a mold inoculated rice, the mold, this very specific mold is called asperjose orzai. It's used to power sugar production as well as enzymatic activity to create amino acid. Oh, sorry. To create amino acids in with protein mediums. So, kind of the world is your oyster in terms of what you can do with it, but primary ideas in terms of what's out there, primarily Japanese are sake, miso,

[5:58] and, you know, in terms of just in general soy sauce. Those are the primary known mediums. Yeah, it's also used on Katsolushi, right? Yes. Yes. So basically, if you're Japanese and you don't have, uh,

[6:13] Asper Gillis, you are hosed. You're just hosed. Yeah, you're ruined. Ruined destroyed. So why don't you give us it, again, the quick, the 30% 32nd on, like, inoculation in general in what you do. So in terms of inoculation, what you need to do is basically take a grain, take it to a certain level that, for lack of a better term, is

[6:32] al dente, such that the mold will grow on the surface of the

[6:36] grain and then be able to proliferate, not to be too sticky or

[6:40] wet because other micro organism will grow outside of that.

[6:44] And then if the grain isn't moist enough for the, and soft enough for the

[6:49] aspergillous to penetrate. Um, it won't, and uh, it'll just basically not grow and and, uh, spoilate and give you something that you don't desire. You're lucky that Nastasia is not here because you said sporeulate and that would like, she would just like rip the microphones out. Like, she hates the word spore. Imagine sporulate. That's the worst. Now, actually, we had a question a couple weeks ago on wild, on wild kind of molding with Koji. You ever had or read about pathhenogenic Aspergillis showing up on wild type fermentation of Koji? I've read some studies that say odds are that you're going to get a regular, like, healthy one. I've read studies bad, but it was years ago. Do you have any update information on that? Yeah, I haven't really looked into it. I just feel like, you know, you can easily accessible. It's easily accessible to buy spores that are specific to what you need. And in terms of the flavor conversion or whether it's focused on proteins or carbohydrates for sugars, I feel like it's so easy to just

[7:47] buy it. Yeah, I mean, but there, you know, on the meat front, so many people have tried to, um,

[7:52] everything in life now, especially in fermentation world, in any of these food

[7:59] worlds is a point of difference, and so everyone's trying to make their own products. So I know a lot of people have branched out in, obviously, in beer with different yeast strains or in cured meats with different, you know, bacterial and or, you know, they're basically a

[8:14] shotgun. a bunch of different stuff, bacteria used and everything, strains for their fermentation in sausages and

[8:20] whatnot. But you don't see that giant difference in like different exact strains of

[8:25] aspergillis for Koji versus, let's say, oh, yeast for beer. I wouldn't imagine. So I think any of the other flavors that you get are from other micro organisms doing their

[8:37] jobs. Mostly what Aspergillus in terms of what I've been investigating is the ability to create amino acids.

[8:45] And if you're just creating amino acids, you know, maybe some have different ways of creating enzymes for different

[8:50] proteins, but in terms of a difference in umami, I don't know if you can parse that. Okay, cool. So just buy a sports people. Yeah. Yeah, or get a small package and generate your own. Yeah, generate your own. Well, you make it like, by the way, it's not just for rice anymore. You do every. I'll know if you mention that because I was opening up the questions I have to answer later on, but you do, you inoculate

[9:12] everything, like you inoculate, like, your family. Yeah, so I brought some examples of things that I've actually applied Koji to, but yeah. I mean, uh, in terms of, if you bring the Koji cheese, that's what I heard I should, I should try some. Yeah, so I have the Koji cheese, which is basically what I'm calling a miso method cheese, because I'm already taking Finnish

[9:35] Koji, and mixing it with ricotta, and a little bit of salt, and basically you create a particular cheese like substance that you can get on the order of the flavor in 2 months, do the enzyme

[9:47] activity. And then I'm looking at people. It looks like a praline. It looks like a, like a praline's a multi-use term. It looks like a chunk of brown, like cooked brown sugar, like it might contain almonds or

[10:01] pecans. But oh, by the way, JW, are you a pecan or a pecan? a pecan. You're a pecan? Pecan. He's from the South. You're from the south. West though, West, West Texas. Just eat that sparingly. pretty concentrated like Parmesan. So anyway, and it breaks up and it looks almost like a cooked through like

[10:20] a soda bread, but it's one color all the way through, and it's kind of it's nuggetized. It has a very, it has more of a Romano nose than, I would say, Parmigiano knows. What do you think, guys? Maybe. In between. Parmesan. getting some Parmesan. You don't get Romano? I get the smell of Romano, but I'm tasting some Parmesan. Have you seen the movie Corky Romano? It's so intense. Oh, here goes my mouth noise. Sorry. hold up. Yeah, okay, so Peter, what do you think? I think it's incredible. Yeah, I'm trying to... So it has... The protein breakdown flavor in it, to me, honestly, is closer to like a Romano, because to me, especially like, uh, the Romano's, you get like a locatelli style Romano here in in the U.S. are kind of heavily, heavily

[11:11] enzyme. They have a lot of breakdown, a lot of breakdown flavors, so I'm getting a lot, a lot of breakdown flavors in it. What do you think? No? You think it's closer to a Parmigano style finished than a Romano style finish? Closer to Romano. Yeah. So maybe the nose is more super interesting. How long does this take? Three months start to finish. So only 2 months. And also, for those of you who work in restaurant kitchens, takes about 2 months in a reach-in or walking. So you can do this under refrigeration conditions, safe, controlled, in a way such that, you know, you don't have to worry about the environment, fluxing. Also, I've pretty much put it in environment where it's totally miso. Um, you know, Doesn't retin sound dirty? Reaching sounds dirty, doesn't it? Yeah. You kind of like reach around? Oh, thanks. I mean, it was all implicit. Rich? Rich, man. Rich, you are the new line stepper. Peter was our habitualized stepper. You were the new line stepper. hold on, let me give him the line stepping scepter. Here we are. Because usually Peter's the guy that like, you know, one just one step too far. Like, you take it out to the brink, such that someone who doesn't already know. I like to leave a little to the imagination, though, you know? All right. Okay, so what we got next, boss? So since we're already talking about misos. One of the things in terms of El Paso, a buddy of mine who works at Commonwealth

[12:29] restaurant in Cambridge, shout out. My buddy, Dicko, mortatory that I've been working with for a very long time on projects. We dropped a whole bunch of Koji into kitchen. We started experimenting. And I said, you can pretty much add any protein to Koji and create a delicious miso.

[12:45] So he pulled out this refried bean can of refried beans. And we made refried bean miso. What band was it? Was it Goya? No, it was El Paso. Oh, yeah. Segue right there. Oh, baby. So I also I love how JW brings out the accent. So I have some of that. But I had it. So we did it, we added to, we had it on a, um, a dinner we did over the course of a few days on a

[13:11] workshop dinner tour of Koji. So we added some apple butter to make it kind of like a hoisin sauce. Next to it, we have a, uh, basically a full out whey protein powder with a little bit of water and Koji and salt to create a crazy umami bombed, uh, processed cheese. And then on a lark, even though I'm big on proteins. I took avocado and I made a miso with it. Uh, and it tastes pretty cool, even though it doesn't have a lot of protein, it's got a pretty crazy flavor and texture. So pass this around. We'll do straw on it so that we don't make mouth noises with the crackers. And then during the break, we can take bigger trunks with crackers. So home's like, you guys talk for a 2nd while I taste here. Good job talking. So, so I found all this stuff in terms of if you're looking to create misos, uh, short term, you know, in the course of a couple months, uh, what you look at

[14:07] is, if you have some sort of animal protein, it seems like, uh, in terms of the enzymatic action, it occurs much faster, uh, so if we're talking about uh, meats, you know, in terms of

[14:18] what's uh, the folks of Noma had been doing for a while, making, you know, fish sauces and meat sauces. But dairy was one of those discoveries, I came upon, you know, a couple

[14:28] years ago when I was 1st playing around, thinking about what has protein, what has, you know,

[14:34] minimum amount fat. I actually just the easiest way that I found to originally track it was I would just look at nutritional facts and match it against

[14:41] soybeans. And then I just went on a lark and just went crazy and started adding everything. I've done baking. I've done butter. How was bacon? It's actually crazy. added umami. Um, it's not right. Not right. mommy overload? Yeah, it's umami overload. Yeah, I mean, you could add it to a stock or, you know, to... or something. Yeah. What about what other other failed misos? Oh, yeah, yeah. So, uh, if you take butter, because it's pretty much full out fat and you leave it out really hot and under normal, like miso, uh, fermentation, uh, conditions, uh,

[15:19] because uh, uh, Koji actually creates uh, uh, enzymes to break, lipes is to break down fats, you get rid of expand acidity pretty easily. Well, also like breakdown fat, fat breakdown products and cheeses, I can always tell a full fat

[15:33] cheese its age because those lipid breakdown products, like make my taste buds pop like little mushrooms. I can always tell, hold on a second. Nastasia the Hammer Lopez has graced us. You saved your seat. Thank you. pretty nice. Peter tried to get JW to sit there so that you would yell at him and I was like, you know, Peter, why would you enjoy somebody else's

[15:56] pain so much? It's not, it's not accurate. Well, I'm just taking a page from the Stas book. Yeah, yeah. All right, so you can go back and taste the other stuff in a second. So what else, what about this cheddar block. Tell me about your supermarket cheddar block. So supermarket, cheddar block. Basically, I took some super, because a good friend of mine named Jeremy Monsky has been experimenting a lot with curing meats and aging meats with

[16:19] growing aspergillus with rice flour pack. Under the same conditions you would grow aspergillus on a grain, to create this, basically this enzyme

[16:31] pack such that you can cure meats faster and create aging flavors really fast.

[16:36] So on the order of, you know, a 3rd less time that you would normally hang to dry. So what I

[16:43] did, in terms of seeing what he was doing is because I was on this cheesecake, I just took some supermarket cheddar. And I did this, this, um, you know, Koji can

[16:53] asperjose pack on the outside. And basically when you do that, it just has this enzymatic action. But not so much in adding flavor to this particular piece of cheese, but it kind of petrified

[17:04] it. So it has this interesting drying effect through the enzyme activity that I don't quite understand. So maybe if we have some scientists out there, that would be really helpful to try to understand this. Now Peter, you tried this before, so when you try it, you can tell me what's going on, right? Yeah, of course. All right.

[17:23] You got some meat here? Yeah, so in terms of one of the investigations that I was thinking about, because there's a lot of, you know, talk about whether you should do

[17:32] the, um, Koji growing on the on the surface of the meat, or you should pack Koji on the outside. So I just kind of went on a lark and decided because I had some Brazilo I was working on, um, to basically put a... You say it, you're the Italian. They're like, I don't know, but like, but, oh no, wait, wait. No, it's different. Like, so when I say, like, Boston style, are you from

[17:57] Boston rich or just went there because of school? Just went there because of school, but, well, actually, I went to school in Amherst, but I, right? Like, but that's different. That's the skin. That is different. That's the braccioli. That's like... Like, you know what I mean? Like, you got to say it like, it's in the, it's in the gravy. You roll up the pork and you put it in the gravy and you get brasol. You know what I'm talking about? Anyway, Brazil, go ahead. So what do you got here? So, uh, so I just decided. So I figured, you know, instead of growing the, um, the particular aspergeros, or as I, on the surface with

[18:30] the rice pack, I would just take some finished Koji, mix it in with a little bit of salt, like 3% salt to ensure that other microbes wouldn't come into play. And I packed it around Brazil. And then I carried it. So, uh, it only took 12 days to get to the final, uh, it actually got over the 30% It got to 33% and it creates this interesting,

[18:53] it's a lot moister than traditional air cured Brazola. It's good too. spices you put on that? I just put a curry spice in curry. Yeah, into the Koji pack. You're weird dude. Curry, curry, curry, curry. I like that. I like the curry, though. What do you guys think about the curry? I like it a lot. curry burzoli. You know, he made miso fortune cookies with our fortune cookie machine. Yeah, I didn't get to have one yet. It's actually Go Chi Chong. I'm sorry, sorry. Because we had it, yeah. Peter, don't give us your alternate translation, all right. Peter's got inappropriate alternate translations for anything. Oh, right. Yeah, I know. Yep, y'all know what go-to means in Korean. Yeah, I know. I've been told that like you use a slightly different version of the word when you mean the slang word that you're talking about, but I

[19:38] don't know. What might, what might, anyway, never mind. All right, all right, all right. I gotta get to some questions. Let's see this here. By the way, call in your freaking Koji questions now, like technical questions on how to use Koji. Why do you have beats here? Why beats? Spray with extra jasmin? Yeah. No, basically, so I was, you know, I was just giving you the beat eye with this. You know what? I like beats. No, I like beats. It's just, I like a particular kind of beat, right? First of all, you're like... so you should love beets. You should be swimming in beet juice on a constant case. I had a lot of beats growing up. Yeah. And you just hated them? No, okay, so I can deal with thin sliced, like, and it's a pretty chioga beats, right? I can deal with that. I can deal with fully cooked beets. It's that in-betweener. Also, I really love par dehydrated beats. Love party hydrated beets. It's those in-betweener beats where like you get a giant chunk of beat and it's like not cooked and it's not

[20:34] cooked and then somehow they manage to cook the dirt flavor into the beat instead of getting the...

[20:39] Here we get 3 big baseballs of beets as a ditch. I can't plow my way through a baseball of beat. But like vegan chunks I can deal with. What are your guys' thoughts on baseballs and beats? I was actually just exposed to beats when I came up to New York at Lupa and I had to cook about like £60 a week of beats. And so I had a lot of baseball beat experiences. To be honest, I'm a baseball beat fan. They grew on me. So you would just pick up like a beat and there's craps running down your arm, ruining your whites. I just take a big old shawl. Your teeth are all stained, running down the sides of your mouth, and you're like, yeah, I'm down. That's what happened. You guys should know Nastasia's face. Rich, we had that salt baked beets at, what was it called? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That sounds good. Gunargus Lasen. One of my one of my earliest... Memories, a nightmare memories is that we did a salt cooked fish. My mom decided to do it, and the salt crust collapsed, and we couldn't get all the salt off the fish. And so it was more like death. Yeah. And like my mom, who's a fantastic cook and a pediatric cardiologist, like world-renowned for starting the transplant program at

[21:46] Columbia. The 1st pediatric heart transplant ever. And the only thing that my stepfather gives her constantly reminds her of is that one freaking

[21:53] fish with the... saved

[21:56] lives, but saved so many lives. Like, literally so many lies that no one else would have transplanted these kids and yet that's what that's what she's going to be remembered for, that one fish. So what do we got with the beats? So it's a better zuke preparation. Traditionally, it's done with Daikon. So I just took the recipe straight out of the Book of Miso. Short leaf. Call out, shout out to Shirtleaf. Yeah, it's my goal to bring that back into publication. I told it's not in publication? No. I told you, I called him on the phone. picked up and insulted me. What? Yeah. I was like, listen, this is a long time ago. And he literally, he picked up the phone. I was like, okay. Because, like, I thought I was going to get, like, you know, somebody, somebody dot peon at soy organization. Yeah, yeah, soy, whatever. And he picks up and I was like, um, have you had, I was trying to do alternate

[22:47] tofus. And this was way, way before... Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is like long, long time ago. And I was like, can you make it with edamame? And he almost like, if he could have, like, choked me with peace through the phone. He would have like choked me out with peace. He's like, that is such a wasted edamame. Why would you try to make tofu out of edamame? I was like, my people have a lot of money. It's not about saving the world through protein. It's just about food. You know what I mean? I was asking, try to ask them about alternate things. He was just like, look, soybeans are for tofu. Andamame is for eating. Boop. That's it. You know what I mean? He was not having it. So shortly, the guy who wrote the book of Tofu in the book of me. So we talked about it many times on the air. And his wife, whose name I can never pronounce, which is why I never say her name. I feel you on that one. Yeah, yeah. And so, which I feel bad. Like, I would give her, like, the credit she's due, if I could pronounce her name, or, and because I can't pronounce her name, I can't remember it, which is a freaking nightmare.

[23:41] It's horrifying. like, anyway, whatever. And she didn't pick up the phone. If she had picked up the phone, I would have made the, you know, the conscious effort to

[23:48] remember. anyway, that's not the point. The point is, is that he wanted to save they, wanted to save the earth through, um, protein. You know what I mean? Didn't work so much though. I think they should have I mean, if people knew what umami bombs were back then, then it would have been a totally different story. Yeah, so the 2 of them wrote 2 books. The book of Tofu, the book of Miso, please do not buy, there is a pocket version that's reasonable, and then there's a pocket version that's mutilated. Please get, when you're getting it, make sure you get the full-on edition. When they hacked up one of one or two, I forget, I've seen several editions of their books that have been hacked up in such a way that they don't flow well and they're kind of

[24:26] unreadable. If you can get the large format one, they're the easiest on the eyes and the best to read. Rich, agree. Yeah, I own 4 copies. What's your last name? I don't know. Not sure, Leaf. Okay. So on those pickles, basically, I took that technique. You just make a slurry out of Koji you've

[24:49] made or Koji you've bought, you add cooked rice and a little bit of sake and

[24:53] salt. And then you have this pickling slurry and you let it ferment out for about a week. And then you just add, um, you add typically root vegetables to it because they can kind of handle

[25:03] the, uh, the environment and hold up. And then I've just found it to be delicious. The other... They are crunchy. Is that bad or? Well, in my normal realm, that's not so good. But I'm remembering now, I'm thinking of them now more as Sukimono as pickles, and so I can, that's good. It's good. Nastasia does not like them at all. What's the face? That's the most polite I've ever seen Nastasia be in her life. A look of horror with and fine. No, but listen. Must document. Nastasia, Nastasia, like, you need to rearrange your mind. Like, you and I have an idea of what something's supposed to be. Just rearrange your mind. This is now a we're now in Sukimonoland. We're not in like Western Beatville. One thing I will say is that, um, I can taste starch more in this beat than I normally can taste in

[26:02] beats. I wonder why that's the case. So like when you eat an apple that has some residual starch. It's got a note and usually in an undercooked beet or non- I guess it's non-cooked. It is not undercooked or it isn't cooked. It's part cooked. So, yeah, okay, so that's why I'm not used to having a raw beat of this texture. So I get a little bit of that starch note, which lovers of pea shoots will love. I'm a big fan of those beats. Yeah. Are you a lover of pea shoots? I do like pea shoots. Why? You're allowed to like whatever you want. All right, hold on, let's get some questions before we have to go to bring. And then we'll talk more about Bakoji. But if I don't get some of these questions, Nastasia is going to be, see, when I get off the air, Nastasia is just going to be like, you didn't answer any of those damn questions. It's like 3 weeks behind, right? Yes. But I'm going to handle one from this week because it needs a bunch of people talking about it. All right, wait, let's do that. and then take the break, huh? All right, Rich, you got a couple more things for us to taste. after the break. Yeah, we'll do it after. Okay. Andrew from Los Angeles writes in regarding toast. Greetings, Dave, the Hammer and Family. I consider myself a knowledgeable amateur cook, and I'm uncomfortable with a variety of techniques and cuisines. I say this 1st because my question is super basic. How do you make toast? Lately, I feel like my toast game is lacking. The bread doesn't get crunchy enough unless it's boite. I've had some pretty delicious toast out at various breakfast spots, but can't seem to replicate that at home. I know enough to avoid sagifying the toast by, say, putting on a plate directly after toasting. Oh my god, even thinking about that frigging toast, steaming itself on a plate is making me angry. It's just making me virulently angry right now. But I could use some more pro wisdom. Should I look into a new toaster? I don't know. You didn't tell me what kind of toaster you're using. How do I know? I don't know what you have. Although the toaster does make a huge difference. If I'm not getting the should I look into a new toaster if I'm not getting the desired outcome, toaster oven versus standard slotted toaster,

[27:59] you know, et cetera. Is this entirely about the brand of bread? Do I have to be a crazy person and leave sliced bread on the counter every night to get it appropriately stale? Any and all thoughts would be appreciated. Love the show, Andrew from Los Angeles. First of all, you should go and read, oh my god, what's, uh, so the wife name is Matt. What's his name? John Thorn had a book, several books. They write in Maine. I think it's, I forget, they have a bunch of books, looked them up. One of them has an essay on toast that's quite good. Um, but I can't remember the name of which one it is. They have. I can't even remember the name of any of their books now, but it's all like pig, fire, stuff like this, but like one has an essay on toast, which is definitely worth the read. Toast is an underappreciated product. And there is no one toast. It's not like Highlander, where there can be only one. There are multiple toasts. And so the question is, what are you looking for in a slice of toast? And I would say that the average American in a slice of toast wants a crispy but not burnt exterior, but a

[28:59] still, still soft interior? Am I right? I'll agree with that. Yeah. Whereas there are a host of people when they say toast, they want something basically fully meldified, like a,

[29:11] you know, crunchy throughout, a desiccated rusk, right? Now, uh, so, and a lot of this has to do with the with the toasting rate. And I'll say it again, and I've said it a 1000000000 times on the air, this is all about the miracle of moisture management,

[29:25] right? Toast is all a moisture management technique. So, there is a huge difference in quality between different toasters. That's for sure, right? unevenness on everything on the on the programming. You can in general get decent toast out of any, uh, any toaster you desire, but in general, if your toast isn't coming out of the way you want it, I would do 2 toastings on

[29:51] a, I would do 2 light toastings with a rest in between rather than a single long toasting to the desired color.

[29:59] That's going to give you a little more dehydration on the outside of the bread. And after the very 1st toasting when it comes out, you'll flash some of the moisture off and ruin the kind of

[30:08] base initial very blonde crust that you produced. And then when you put it in for the 2nd time, you're going to develop a little more of a durable crust on the outside, but you won't have dehydrated it all

[30:17] the way through. If you want a very dehydrated internal with a very, very

[30:21] long-lasting crust for, let's say, you're going to put something on top like boschetta or something like this, then I would say multiple low passes or just throw it in the freaking oven at a low baking temperature with air

[30:34] circulation. The other thing is as soon as the toaster turns off, open the toaster oven. if you're using an oven. Open the toaster oven, let the steam come out. When you look at your toaster oven, JW, do you not see that freaking condensation on the inside of the toaster oven? Yeah, yeah, I see it. And does that not cause your heart pain? It does. It causes a little tinkle. Right, right. So 1st thing I would say is let's say you're using a toaster oven. I would do a, you know, a relatively short toast, then I would open

[31:00] it and let it flash off, wait a couple minutes, toast it one more time light, and you should get a good quality toast. That's the answer. On a pop-up toaster. I don't really think, I mean, maybe moving it slightly because if your toaster is particularly crappy, you'll notice

[31:16] that it puts banding on your toast and not just banding on where the

[31:21] grates are, but you can literally see the heating element's running along your toast. This is an indication that your toast is probably, that's not an even enough kind of heat. Perhaps the reflector on the bottom of your thing is very dirty. You're not getting a lot of radiate heat back up or there's a number of reasons, but, you know, if you need to move it to even it out. You can do that too, or just get a higher quality toaster oven. Anyone else agree or disagree on my toast technology, anything further to add on toasting? Sounds like a pain in the ass to get some good toast. It's super easy Look, this is like everything else. This is like my new book. If you're not into this, then just don't buy the new book. It's thinking a lot ahead of time, but making your life easy. Like, in other words, like, you're putting your toast in and you're hitting it and you're hitting go and you're walking away and coming back and it's done, all I'm advocating is that in between that, you, like, turn it off, let it flash off

[32:11] for, like, you know, 30, 40 seconds, let it cool down a little bit, then run it through another toast

[32:15] cycle. That all. So you're saying toaster oven is the way to go over a pop-up toaster? No, I think you could do the same thing in a pop-up toaster. Pop-up toaster shoots the toast up and allows pretty good airflow. So, like, I would just set your pop-up toaster to like a lower level than you normally would, and then just let it pop, hit it again, let it pop and

[32:32] go. And then it's just dialing in how long those short segments are. But you're gonna get a better toast. Look, if you want crappy toast, that's up to you. I'm kind of in a mix right here because I have my grandmother's toaster, and so it's sentimental, but it's fundamentally produces crappy

[32:47] toast. So... What style of toaster? Toastmaster. Toast muds pop-up? pop up from like 1976 or something like that? Yeah, you might like do, so if it's pop-up, is it, like, what's bad about the toast? Like, so the knob doesn't really work, so you don't really know how you're going to, if you're going to overdarken it or if you're going to lightly darken it. You need to keep that knob in one freaking position. You need to dial that sucker in and then like let her go. Well, Paso's more of a tortilla game, so we never really kind of jumped into it. You put tortillas in a pop-up toaster? No, no, but I don't really, that's why I guess I don't know the art of toast per se. and haven't really paid attention to the quality of the toast. And so, I don't know. Yeah, also, I like crappy American bread for toast. I do, for a sandwich. For a sandwich. Here's something else I would say. I'm going to make a small pitch here, large pitch, actually. If you're getting a new toaster, One of the advantages of a toaster oven is the bagel setting. And the bagel setting is the best thing to happen to toasters since

[33:44] toasting. Because there are many things on earth. A bagel is not one of them because I don't toast bagels, but there are many things on earth where you want toasting on the one side only. You guys agree with me on this? Yeah. A hamburger bun. I don't want the part touching my hands to be toasted. I want the part touching the mayonnaise and or the burger. I want that to be toasted. That sogginess, too. Yeah, right. That's functional and delicious, but I want I want the top of my sesame seed bun to be a bun and not a piece of toast.

[34:14] Unless you get a patty moat. Fluffy. I would always get a patty melt. If someone says, would you have, like, would you have a patty melt? pretty much they can just stop. They can just stop. Would you like a patty melt as soon as they say the word or I'm like, I'm done because that's what I want. Patty Melt is like, God's, like, what God would do to a burger. That why it's not even a hamburger in my mind. It's like, it's another category of awesome. Like I love the patty melt. But, uh, anyway, patty melt, obviously, you don't, that's an interesting question. Would you pre-toast, would you pre-toast the inside of a patty melt? I don't, do I? No. You want to take a break and think about it? Is that a hint? Yeah, okay, we'll come right back with more questions on cooking issues.

[35:01] Bob's Red Mill has been milling whole grain since 1978. What are the nice things about Bob's Red Mills? It's the only that I know of, national supplier that's easily available for lots of interesting,

[35:16] hard-to-get grains and other seed products. So, you know, before Bob's Red Mill became widely available, you couldn't go get something like quinoa very easily, or you couldn't go get spelt easily in small quantities.

[35:31] But now you go to any one of the huge number of stores that carry Bob's

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[36:37] For more information and to order yours now. Visit chefsteps.com slash J-O-U-L-E. And we're back. We didn't answer Javier about his equipment question, did we, Nastasia? Okay. I hope you're doing well. I wanted to send a question for the show, but don't have the address. Well, apparently you found it. Okay. I'm looking at expanding the equipment for my kitchen. I live in a small apartment, so I don't have too much space to put many appliances, and I wanted to get a suggestion on what I should get next. I currently own a nova immersion circulator, unfortunately, it's not a jewel, I guess, because, you know, we had jewel is a sponsor of our program. We had croissant, what, 2 weeks ago? Uh, a Vitamix, uh, KitchenAid, a copycat, EC Whipper, and a pre-order the spins all. Thank you. You have everything you need then, baby. I was looking at a vacuum chamber machine, the Ari Vacmaster 215, Rich, you ever use that one? Nope. No, I know JW hasn't because he's got the fancy, uh, fancy mini pack. Wah, wah. But I don't know if I should go for it. Another machine like it or a different type of equipment. Any suggestions? I would only use it at home, so I'm debating whether I should shell out $500 plus for a machine like that. Thanks for your help. Best Javier. Javier. So here's my issue. I've never used that. All these years later, have what? Javier. Javier. Javier, whatever, man. I was going French. Anyway, week. I've known weak sauce. I the sauce that is weak. So, my point is this. I've never used that machine. I should probably, since I'm doing this book that has sous vide on it, just bite the bullet and buy or steal one or find someone that has one and use it, now I'm going to actually go French Herve, Chef Herve

[38:21] Maliver from the French culinary, well, the ICC, formerly the French culinary institute. He seems to like it, but I've never used it and I will never, I can't ever, won't ever recommend a piece of equipment that I haven't used. Um, just because that would be stupid on my part. Um, but, you know, like what you, I don't know the ultimate vacuum it can produce. Really, for vacuum vacuum machine at home is super handy. Um, Most things you can do without a vacuum machine, but I got to be honest, when, like, I'm doing chicken marination or any kind of marination, I throw crap in the vacuum machine because it just makes the marination happen faster.

[38:57] It just does like backpacking the stuff down. Uh, and for infusions and when you're packing stuff to freeze, you want to get all the oxygen out.

[39:05] So backpacking for freezing is like a really smart idea to maintain quality on long frozen items. Um, You can get away with a zippy, but vacuuming is generally a lot better.

[39:16] I only like chamber machines. I think that this, the one you're talking about. I cant remember whether it has a chamber or whether it's like a chamber like one or something like this, but I really only recommend chamber machines. Uh, I will say this, mini pack, which is the company who uh, makes the unit that I use, uh, and that JWU mini pack,

[39:36] not not multivac, right? Yeah, you know why to get mini pack is because they care about cooks, whereas multivac could give a rats behind about you. They don't care about you or your problems. Not at all. I want a mini pack. You want a mini pack? We don't want a mini pack, but they're coming out with a where they're coming out with a new home unit

[39:50] called like the cube in the next 6 months or so. And so I'm waiting when that comes out, unfortunately, I don't think it'll be out in time for my book to be in it, but

[40:01] I'm having high hopes for it. is relatively small unit. It will allow for chamber and for external vacuum, but I can't comment on it because they're not using. See, all the good vacuum machines use what's called a bush pump or equivalent. It's an oil-based vacuum pump, and they just kick so much behind. That's why, like, food savers are, you know, relatively useless for that sort of stuff because they have those little piston

[40:25] pumps. And then like they get, they get jammed with... You know what no one's ever done that I know of? Here's a trick for you food saver people. Has anyone ever modified a food saver for a wolf jar? You know what a wolf jar is? So a wolf jar is vacuum in and vacuum out all from the

[40:45] top and it collects liquids in the bottom. So, like, I can imagine modifying a food saver with one of their smaller because it takes a long time to evacuate those things with that crappy little pump. But you could probably handle liquids. Oh, no, you can't because you got to put the freaking seal bar. Someday I'll just make my own like DIY. I'll just make like a $100 DIY. That not for production because people already are in that business, but I mean, just like a, you know, you have access to like a fundamental woodshop or a 3D

[41:15] printer. Here's a vac machine. Yeah, because you can't wolf char that sucker. Son of a gun. I don't know. Anyway, it would be good if you could. Then you wouldn't need a chamber as much, but I would wait for a chamber machine. What do you think? I agree. Yeah? DW, how do you like your new shamer machine? I love it. I love it. Okay. Still practicing on it a lot, though. Froggy, why don't you take a glass of water? No, no, no, working, working. All right, hold on. Yeah. Okay, so listen. Hey, I was doing that on the plane, annoying the hell out of people on the plane, but what about that guy that got drug off the United

[41:44] Airlines? Wow. The airline is like, what do you mean? What the problem? I was like, it's like, it's like once you're seated, that's it. My butt's in the seat. You know what I mean? You got a lot of stones to try and take me out of my seat. You know what I mean? Would you rather have them step over you? I would rather them put that crew on another immediate flight or just break. Look, you messed up. Put them in the cockpit in the jump seat. have them stay in the freaking restroom. We just keep upping what you're offering until somebody, somebody's going to at some point. Yeah, they're like, oh, we can't up it that much. Yes, you can. 30 free flights. Get off my freaking plane. You know what I mean? It's like a lot cheaper than what they have to do now. Yeah, right? Yeah. They lost two, like as of when I left my apartment this morning, they had already

[42:32] lost like two, 2.5 to 3% of their entire company value on the stock market based on that decision.

[42:38] So it's like, maybe they should have offered a couple more free flights. I'm just saying. Yeah, you know what I mean? But the thing is also, like, drag somebody off a plane. Uh, yeah, the, I mean, I don't know, that's not a, it's not a food related, not a food related question, so we should probably, we have enough food related questions. So, uh, Shyro... Maybe the guy liked pea shoots, though, in which case. Get him off there. Maybe what? Maybe he like pea shoes, yeah. Or just like a baseball beat. Oh, oh, I get you pieces. Baseball beats, pea suits, chicken, a turkey wrap. and how about something? Why you got to hate on the turkey? not the turkey. Speaking of wraps. So we talked about Juarez and the burrito a little bit. Did we talk about bars? Did we talk about bars on here, Anastasia, the Juarez bars? So all the old Well, JW took us all the old school bars. They all have the bar is an integrated urinal. P where you stand. I have to call this into question, though. I'm calling this into question. So, yeah, we've always thought it was a urinal. Is that what the lady said? Someone else called it out and saying that it was something like a trash bin, like

[43:41] someone like... Yeah, so that's what I was saying. I've been to lots of bars in Spain where they have the trough under the bar, and that's where you throw your napkins, the ones that really do a horrible job at wiping up anything. Then also you throw like your cells and like... Do you know Mexico's its own country? Well, I'm saying that it's quite possibly something that was brought over from Spain. And that would explain, that'd be a much more rational reason. It's crazy to think of foods. Oh, oh, it's so irrational. What about the old thing that you used to hear about people at Oktoberfest peeing down their canes? Old thing meaning like this happens. like now. And I'm pretty sure potentially Kentucky Club might have been an all male bar when it 1st opened up. So I could I could see that. That's what the lady at Club Queens, they say. Yeah. why would you throw a napkin in a trough? Just so you don't have to throw it on the floor. You are throwing it on the floor. Someone's still going to have to go down into the trough and lift that nap him out. where people are peeing. Someone, some sort of bar expert. Please get on this. Anyway, for whatever, they're not, they're no longer used, and I'm sure there's no faster way to get your,

[44:46] you're behindhanded to you than to either throw your, throw your garbage or your urine in there. First of all, urine is a lot more friendly than your garbage. Dave, I gotta just drop a little hate right now. I talked to Doc Scons since that episode when you talked about him filming Nick Wong and Nick Wong just

[45:01] saying... Nick Wong was here during that. I've seen the video evidence and your account of the video is erroneous. Oh, wow. Well, okay, so why don't we... Erroneous... Well, no, I mean, in fact,

[45:20] Nick, yeah, whatever. No, Nick says he's knowing he's excited to see Doc Scones. And then, um, you know, he's like, I wasn't saying that he was hating on Doc Sconce. It's just Nick is a very head down cook, work, not say anything that he's not authorized to say kind of an individual.

[45:35] That's the point. It's not that he's hating on Doc Sconce, is that if you're like, will you make some comments on this kitchen? The answer is going to be, no. You know what I mean? Like, seriously, have you ever met Nick? Do you hang out with Nick? You're like, try to get him to say something. He's going to be like, no. Because what if he says something that's not what the chef wants him to freaking say? Duh. Not, not, not, nothing. Shy rights, and. After tasting some in quotes, grill flavored snacks, which are obviously not grilled. I wondered how this flavor is created. I did a quick patent search and got some interesting and confusing results. The concept seems to be a breakdown of oil and amino acids at high temperatures. Yeah, there's like rancidity. They're like in contact with metal ions, there's all sorts of stuff. It seems oxygen or lack of it also has some effect. I appreciate some explanation of this flavor and the process that produces it, and perhaps also some uses for it in a home kitchen, thanks,

[46:28] shy. Well, I don't really know precisely how it's done. It's a super dark art what happens in the flavor houses. Did you ever talk to our flavor guys about that? We need to talk to him about, like, fake wakay flavors. Yeah, we talked Julie. Talk to Julie a little bit about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so there's they identified the chemical compounds, actually, create that are, like, what

[46:48] Wokhe is. Right. And a lot of it is like overcooked oil, like things that catch on fire. Um, reactions of oil in the presence of um, ferrous metal ion. Yeah, the carbon steel. Yeah, so carbon steel. All of that plays in, but also a lot of these quote unquote grill flavors also have the meat flavor thrown into it, and all the fake meat flavors are like very complicated, and this goes to

[47:12] rich, what you're into, very complicated protein breakdown products that happen in large reactors.

[47:18] And so like a lot of this kind of like reactor-based flavor chemistry is all about the exact feedstock, the exact temperature that they're reacting it at to

[47:26] get break it down. So it's all very super complicated. And the reason you can't find information on it is because they don't want you to know.

[47:32] Like, it's all super proprietary how all those kind of flavors work other than the basics that we can all look at, which is people have done GCMS work on grilled food and kind of

[47:42] seen what has come out. right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so let me see. Any more of a, let's see, the answer the that question, that question. All right, let's go onto this. Daiquiri, Dan from Dan, Dan with a daiquiri question from Chicago. Do you like daiquiris, Rich? Traditional daiquiri. Yeah, yeah. As opposed to what? I don't know the strawberry crap. That's not even a daiquiri. Don't even call that a daiquiri. Hemingway daiquiri is another form of daiquiri that I dislike. But like those things in New Orleans are not daiquiris. I don't know what they are. JW daiquiri, man? No, not really a daiquiri fan. What? I don't really know much about daiquiris either, to be honest. Maybe had two in my whole life. What? You gotta fix this. Yeah, yeah. We could change it up. open. open to it. You're gonna mix one up for them then. I wish that the Greek guys were real so that a Thunderbolt can fly out of the sky and strike you down. Oh, thank you. Strike me down. Isn't isn't daiquiri, isn't that like the drink that when you're applying for a bartending job they ask you to make? It's one of them. It's an indicator drink. So, uh, like the Manhattan's an indicator drink. Can someone make a decent Manhattan daiquiri is an indicator drink? Yeah, it's one of those things. Anyway. I can't even go. I can't even go on people. Dan writes, I'm working on improving my daiquiri game, which is currently very weak. Nastasia, the daiquiri is weak. You are weak. Yeah, I love... WWE's doing some selfies. Nastasia. What? I think I can do that too. What? Did you see your shirt? No, what does he say? Always be creating. So we have more than one Glengarry, Glenn Ross reference in the room right now. Anyway, shout out ideas and food. Yeah, Dan. Wait, that's an ideas and food t-shirt? is he a fan of are they a fan of Glengarry Glenn Ross? I would imagine so. Alex Anaki or Gary Glenn Ross fans. Is anyone not a fan of Glenn Gary Glenn Ross? Dave, have you seen Glenn Garry Glenn Ross? Yeah, long time ago. Do you not occasionally watch Alec Baldwin's monologue on the YouTube? What, you do it like every so often, just to pump yourself up? You have to re-up yourself. Like, you have to, like, get it back. JW? No, once again, I'm drawing a blank here. Oh, you gotta see it. I have a DVD. Get another Thunderbolt strike. He's pilot ashes. Okay, I will send it to you. Alec Baumlin, regardless of where you stand on Trump and his Trump imitation, one of the great monologues of all times, all times is the speech that he gives to the salespeople in

[50:18] Glengarry, Glenn Ross, where, uh, it's just like it needs to be, and 1st of all, like a super sexy 80s out

[50:25] bow. Am I right, Nastasia? Like super hardcore, like, yeah. And just like, you know, Baldwin at his best. Got to go see them. Only closers get coffee. Yeah. The coffee. down. Yeah, yeah. I just love that movie. Anyway, so many good people in it. It's not about movies. It's about food. Okay. I'm working on my Dakri game, which is very weak. And I was wondering what particular rum brands and types you recommend for the classic daiquiri versus the

[50:52] Hemingweig daiquiri versus the Thai basil daiquiri. I have to say it, Booker and Dax. We switched up what rum we used for either of those two. Since you're in Chicago. I mean, like, if you're in, if you're abroad, like, I really, I like Havana 3 is really

[51:05] nice, Havana Club 3, but you can't get that here yet, even though Castro is dead, like, he still can't get that here yet. I think a lot of that is because that trademark is in contention between

[51:16] Bicardi and a bunch of other people, but that's a good one. Florida Cana, the white one, the is one kind of one of the standard ones that we used. I like that. I like any sort of like vaguely fruity, not solventy smelling, not overpowering. I wouldn't go heavy hogo, although a heavy hogo daiquiri can also be good. Look, Jack Schram, you know, formerly a Booker and Dax, a head bartender now at Nomad, he

[51:43] was, he loved Super Hogo, which is that hard to describe. Hogo is that smell in certain rums like Smith and Cross and Ray and Nephew,

[51:52] Apple tins and all this. He loved like Hogo in a daiquiri, and he even liked like an aged rum daiquiri. I prefer white rum in a regular daiquiri. And what works in a regular daiquiri works in a Thai basil daiquiri. You should just never make a heavyweight daiquiri, so don't worry about what rum to use in a heavyweight daiquiri. if you should make the mistake of making a heavyweight daiquiri, add a little extra sugar to it. Additionally, I just purchased a BDX cocktail cube and was wondering, when I'm creating a cocktail with egg white, do I use the cocktail cube during the dry shake and the shake with ice or just during the shake with

[52:20] ice? Use it both, Dan, both. All right. We have more time, right? No, you don't. We have an alkaline noodle question. We have a well, 1st of all, we I don't want to do the Auckland noodle question. We have one more question, Dave. Oh, we have so many though. You choose wisely. All right, Rich, what do you want? What do you want to talk about? I like alkaline noodles. You have a lot of alkaline noodles. We also have like a lot of questions. Yeah. about like indie Jesus. and gluten. I have an idea. Why don't we spend this time talking about the question we want to answer? No, you know what? You're not a nice person. You're just not a nice person. all right Jesse writes in, what, making ramen noodles at home. He also has a question. She also has a question on pureeing salsa, we'll get to that next week. Making ramen noodles at home. Alkaline noodles require an alkaline element. Baking soda can be baked to change from sodium bicarbonate, the sodium carbonate, which is a stronger base. On a molecular level, what is physically different about alkaline noodles from other noodles? I'm not a very scientific person, but I remember reading something about the bonds in the noodles and hydrogen molecules. I was hoping Dave could break it down, Jesse. So what you're talking about is a hydrogen bonding, but on further research, and you guys are

[53:36] probably, you know, I'll know this, but in my mind, it's always been, you know, gluten network, acidity makes it weaker, which is why sourdough bread is kind of slack

[53:46] sometimes and has problems. And alkaline conditions make the gluten network stronger. But as I was researching today, just to make sure, it turns out, it's a lot freaking more complicated than that. And I don't know that anyone actually, um, has it. I mean, I don't know that's 100% figured out. I think it's mostly figured out, but it's not as simple as alkaline situations make the gluten network

[54:10] stronger because there's also starch interactions, with the alkaline, um, conditions. So I don't know. Do you know anything about it, rich? I don't know anything about it, but I know Alex helped me in terms of accelerating the cook time for Koji rice by doing an alkaline bath. Yeah, I mean, it's, what do you mean? Basically, you did an alkaline bath before we did a steaming, and it basically powered the cook time to like 15 minutes versus almost an hour.

[54:39] Right. So, well, what happens is in alkaline conditions, uh, starch, like vegetables and things like that, starches and

[54:47] pecking break down a lot more quickly than they would in a, um, than they would in an acidic environment, which is why one of the reasons why, so you know how like they say that when you add acid to a veg, it, um, when you add acid to a veg, it like has the problem

[55:02] of, uh, the acidity causes the chlorophyll to go bad faster. But it also takes longer to cook. When I used to do vinegar baked vinegar. I used to cook potatoes and vinegar for vinegar fries, and it would take for freaking ever. You ever try that? No, I haven't. forever. So that's why when you add a pinch of baking soda to something to keep it green, right? I think there's 2 things going on. One, I think that the alkaline conditions help preserve the

[55:30] chlorophyll making it greener, but it also accelerates quite drastically the cooking time, right? Which is why things go mushy, which is why the interesting thing to do is instead of adding baking soda to your broccoli water, add calcium

[55:43] hydroxide because the calcium will strengthen the pectin at the same time that the basic nature of it will help the

[55:50] greening. So you get kind of the best of both worlds. So on the way out, I know we have to leave. We also tasted from Rich, some straight Koji, right? Yeah, Jasmine Rice Koji. Jasmine Rice Koji. What do you think, guys? I liked it. Peanut butter, miso cookies. What do you think? Peanut butter miso cookie. Delicious. All right. And we tasted some, you said you used Tozi's, which one? Yeah, basically I hacked the tozy recipe on her butterscotch, which is basically brown sugar, miso, and a little bit of water and butter.

[56:24] And you just pretty much mix it or blitz it, dissolve it out, and then you have pretty much a butterscotch without any sort of sugar cooking.

[56:31] Nice. Nice. Nice. All right, so cool. So go on to Rich's Instagram, our Cook Quest. Check out all the many things that he makes with Koji. I'm actually pretty surprised at the different range of flavors you get out of all the stuff that

[56:44] you've brought today. What do you guys think? I was very surprised. Yeah. And thanks. Oh, and come party with us at the MoFat after party on Thursday. As soon as you say after party, do we have reignition? Well, no, we have got the guy from Tribe called Quest is hosting 85 bucks. And you get a bunch of food, open bar. Dave will be. Did you really just say the guy from instead of just naming who it is? Hello, everybody. This is Jerobi from a tribe called Quest. Yeah. That's right That's awesome. Yeah, yeah. It gonna be a good time. So that's at the MoFed website. All right. And just as a shout out, I'm also on the auction. If anybody in New York City wants to have a miso, learn how to make

[57:21] miso. I'm on the auction site. And JW will be there as well, so you can go over and talk to JW about his lack of love for his own El Paso brand. He's never even visited their fregan factory. Nastasio will be in the corner hating on you. Please come so that Nastasia can hate on you in person. If you've never been hated on by Nastasia Lopez in person. It is something to be experienced. Am I right, guys? Classic. Yeah, yeah. Cooking issues.

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