[0:00] This episode is brought to you by Jule, the emergent circulator for Sous vide by Chef Steps. Order now at chefsteps.com slash J-O-U-L-E. You're listening to Heritage Radio Network. We're a member supported food radio network broadcasting over 35 weekly shows live from Bushwick, Brooklyn. Join our hosts as they lead you through the world of craft brewing, behind the scenes of the restaurant industry, inside the

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[0:39] Hello and welcome to Cooking Issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking. You just coming to you live on the Heritage Radio Network every Tuesday from like, you know, around 12 or so to about one o'clock, uh, from Roberta's Pizzeria in Bushwick, Brooklyn. Oh, God, as usual, David in the booth, we do not have Nastasia the Hammer Lopez, because she might be in the middle of the air right now over the Atlantic Ocean or maybe somewhere over Europe.

[1:07] She was in Rome for her birthday. She's on her way back? I think, either today or tomorrow or something like that. So, in her stead, we have Don Lee, the, I decided maybe I should stop calling you since, like, we work together a lot. Maybe I should stop calling you evil in public. And I'm just going to go to Puppet Master. It could be evil. What do you prefer? Evil cocktail overlord or cocktail public? The true evil is convincing you that it's not evil. Right. That's what, now, when you were in, let's say you're in Star Wars. And the emperor is, by the way, calling your questions to 718-497-2128 at 718-497-2128. Do you really think that, like, Luke, Andor Anakin didn't think that that stuff was evil, what the emperor said? That the thing. It doesn't work about that movie. When he's like, you know, strike me down. I mean, obviously you're not supposed to. He's been treated the entire time, you know, told not to do that. Yeah, it looks from like these backwaters, you know, and so is Anakin. So it's not like they grew up with like movies and novels, so... Okay, here's where we're going to get like a hate down from people, but like, you ever read the Old Testament? Yeah. See, read the Old Testament. you're like, hello? Like you were there, like the people who were on the initial trek out of Egypt,

[2:21] right? Right, right. Like, let's say you see the Red Sea part. You're walking on dry freaking land, right? Could be moist. moist. Right, but you're not sinking in. Right, right. You're walking across it, and then it closes up behind you and swallows your enemies. Well, all the plagues before. Right, all that. why would you make a golden calf is your question? That's right. Right. Makes no sense. Right. The guy that saved you says, you know, wait here, chill. Chill. I'm going to go get some stuff. And it's like, no, golden calf immediately. Right, but it's the same thing as Star Wars. So, yeah. I mean, it's the same, it's very similar idea. It seems unbelievable from the outside, but it must be that when you're living in that time. Well, and if you get into the, like, now defunct expanded universe, the emperor was a huge space racist. Wait, well, 1st of all, 1st of all, expanded university. Yeah he was. And what do you mean now defunct? The universe imploded? When Disney took over Lucas, they kind of said, okay, everything that's in the expanded universe, not

[3:19] canon anymore because they're going to make... How did they get to choose that? Oh, hold a second, hold a second. $100000000 for it. So what? If I pay a 100000000 dollars, like I can't erase the crusades. Yeah, but this isn't the crusades. fiction. Well, it is, and it isn't. I mean, like, you know, I'm sure some of the people that already worked on it are dead. Now their works erased. Yeah. Well, it's not part of the canon. It's part of this legacy thing. So, you know, Han and Leia no longer have twins who have the forest, the Grand Admiral Thrawn doesn't exist. who doesn't have the force anymore? Well, they don't have kids anymore. Well, they've got Kylo Ren. Spoilers, if you haven't seen the... This is all too confusing, Don. Like, why can't they just like leave well enough alone? Well, you know, because it's Disney. It's the mouse. And he, you know, in the same way that the mouse will live forever in the copyrights and we'll always be putting out mouse products. Now Star Wars is going to be there forever. you know, for the next, for the rest of eternity, There's going to be a new Star Wars property every year. And the movies are like top tier cannon, like all the books that's just kind of like secondary. Right, no. First of all, let's straighten this all out people. Cannon is cannon. There is no tier within the cannon. It's all cannon. Well, no, there's not. No, there's there's the trilogy series. No, there's these stories of the side story. no one's like, no one's like, you know what? Deuteronomy, we're going to throw that crap away, but Genesis, we're going to keep. Isn't that called the New Testament? We'll keep that stuff. Not really. We don't keep that. It doesn't count anymore. No, no, there is Bible analogies. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. There's stuff in the New Testament that supersedes some of the old stuff. Right. That's different. So they're saying like, you know, all that old stuff, that actually didn't happen. That was a fever dream. No one said that. No one said Disney. The New Testament, that never happened. Yeah, but Disney's saying that, you know, that was a thing. you know, people were spinning their yarns, but now this is the real thing. Anyway, again, this is not, obviously, we're not supposed to be talking about religion, and I guess not Star Wars either, and we're not supposed to be talking about... Which is religion for some. It's true. Recognize religion. Right. This is not a political show. Not a religion show and not

[5:16] a, it's a family friendly show. in general. Disney, family friendly. They are very friendly friendly. I will not say anything negative against the Disney corporation other than I think it's ridiculous

[5:26] to, like, add and array stuff out of a... Yeah. So let me, Dave, you want me to get the pre-roll out of the way, actually somewhat pre? Yeah, yeah, bang it out. Today, you know, the thing is, Dave, I still, did you look into this? were brought to by like two, two people. You can't be brought to by 2 separate people. You can edit the copy on the fly if you want. Well, they brought you halfway each. Is this like one of those footsteps in the sand freaking things? Today's program is brought to you by modernist pantry. providing magical ingredients for the modern cook for free videos, recipes,

[6:01] tips and tricks, visit modernistpantry.com. And better yet, visit blog.modernistpantry.com. That was beautiful. Thank you. So, Don, you brought some interesting snacks here. What do you got here? Remember, no mouth noises on air. No mouth noises. I got a couple of weird snacks from Sophie's dad. And the 1st is a sweet butter flavored fried oyster snacks that they suggest you use instead of bacon bits on your

[6:26] salads. can believe that. I can believe that. And this is from, where is this from? This is a product of Korea. All right. We'll try that. We'll rip that open. We'll eat some during the break. What' the other one? The other one is some kind of like fried all crunchy olive? It's a sour cream and onion flavor. I don't know where that's from. And it's named Sky? Yellos? Yeah. Is that does that mean sky? I don't know. Made by Dumette. Possibly Dumet. All right, we'll try those in a minute. Meanwhile, let's get us some questions. call Oh yeah, we got a call or call or you're on the air. Hi, Dave, this is Ron from New York. you hear me? Yeah. Hey, so I have a quick question followed by another follow-up question. Uh, one is, I have a friend who's, um, making some fresh sausage and serving

[7:16] it outdoors, so we want to car cook it in a combi oven. he's guided doesn't have an emergency circulator or anything like that. Wait, wait, wait. back up. You have a friend who owns a combi oven and not an immersion circulator? Don't ask, yeah. Yeah, he was convinced that he needed a coffee oven. Does this person still have a mother? Is this person's mother still alive? Get her to slap him. How do you not have a circulator and you own a combi oven? That's the, that might be the... I'm going to answer your question in a sec, but that might be the most ridiculous thing. I've heard, and I'm going to make up a number here, the past 22 days. will let him know that. Yeah, okay. You know what? You know what circulators cost now? Like nothing. They're like potato chips. They're like $150 and he's got a combi oven. You got some rich taste of potato chips. The electricity, Bill, even on a gas oven. The electricity bill in a combi oven. like one of those nice ones. Yeah, it's going to far exceed. I mean, okay, whatever. Go ahead. Go ahead. question. So anyway, he's got a 1st sauce. We have fresh sausage that we want to park in the combi oven. I just wanted to. assuming 100% steam. Yes. I just want to know time and temperature. What's the... What size sausages? How does the steam work in a

[8:33] comedy of them when it's set under 212? So have you read the, have you read Modernist Cuisine actually has a good explanation of this? Um, so, and I guess they don't do uh, look inside, but uh, if you have access to monitors cuisine, I recommend you go look at it. But basically what they do is it kind of... I'm going to take this question off to the air. I got to run. Okay, all right. Thank you so much. I no problem. So I'll I'll give you the answer. So the combi ovens, uh, what they do is they inject steam into the oven and

[9:07] then, uh, like that kind of, it cancels out over the, over the period. So the temperature actually kind of fluctuates a bit. The steam is always being created above the temperature of boiling

[9:18] water, and then when it goes into the oven, They just don't inject enough of it to raise the temperature of the oven high enough and they have a giant fan and they vent out anything that they're not using to keep the, that's one of the reasons

[9:31] they're such monsters on electricity. And one of the reasons why something like a CVAP

[9:36] oven, while it doesn't have nearly the power that a combi oven has takes much less electricity to run because they're just maintaining it by using the Louisiana method of

[9:48] existing, which is just constantly be soaked in water all of the time, right? So like in Louisiana, like, you know, that's it. It's like 100% humidity, you live in, you know, you live in a Delta. That's it. You got 100% humidity. That's what you got. And so in a CVAP oven. If you know, if you're below, uh, if you're below, um, The, uh, if you're, you know, if you're below boiling, they just heat the water up to the same temperature as the oven

[10:16] cavity and then that's it. You're in 100% humidity situation. Now, you're not getting huge energy transfer over. It's not like, it's nowhere near the energy transfer that you're going to get out of a, um, out of

[10:27] an immersion circulator, which is a measly $150 investment. Now, the good news about a combi oven, a real combi oven is they do have very good energy transfer at the expense of accuracy, especially in the lower registers.

[10:41] Now, when you have a combi oven that's going to have maybe 10 degrees, 15 degrees of swing over. I forget what it is. I wish I'd know this was going to get called in because I would have just looked it up, a modernist

[10:52] cuisine, because they, you know, they have all the stats there, but it's a good big swing, and what you're looking for in a combi oven is what I would like to call

[11:02] the integral of the number. So the, if you were to integrate the temperature swing over time, It would come out to be relatively even. And so then the question is, how thick of a food item do you need in there before it basically smooths out to being an even

[11:19] temperature? And so whether or not that makes a big difference in your sausage is highly dependent on how thick your sausage is. That sounded bad. That sounded bad. I was gonna say something, but it's a family show. Family show. Family show. That sounded terrible. The length of your sausage doesn't make any difference in this case. That's really the growth. It's really the girth of the sausage that makes a difference. again, family show. Wow. The good news about sausages is that there are sausages where the temperature you cooked them

[11:50] to is important. For instance, let's say that you're an enemy of quality and you craft a low fat sausage. Right. But let's say you craft a low fat sausage. Low fat sausage, if you overcook a low fat sausage, it's like an overcooked hamburger. It's garbage. You know what I mean? It's like it's going to be garbage. Which is why you should never do that. But you can do that if you, um, if you're using like low temperature cooking with kind of just a finish off. But in general, for me, like doing a low temperature cook on a sausage is just making sure they're all done through without having them cook

[12:26] forever and it lets you do a real fast finish and they tend not to split as much. You tend not to explode your casings as much. So I would do, um, I typically do 140 Fahrenheit, which is 60 Celsius, and, you know, you know, depending on how thick the sausage is, you can, uh, you know, I usually put them in like an hour before I'm gonna, uh, use them, and then you, they can just ride there for as long as you want, and then you can, you know, if you want to, if you think they're riding a long time, and you think you're getting texture changes, which you probably won't, because, remember, ground anyway, I would just, you know, you could turn it down a couple of notches

[13:02] to like, you know, one. 135, which is, you know, 57, somewhere like that and let it ride. Now, some people are going to think it's too pink on the inside at 140, but if you're actually riding it at 140, which is 60

[13:14] Celsius and then you sear them off on a grill, then everyone's going to love them. Yeah, he said he was going to park hook them, finish them later. Yeah. So I would do that. I mean, it's enough of a cook. And then, so if you're going to cook them, par cook them, and then chill them all the way down, and then, uh, and then like fry them

[13:31] from, from cold, you could go a degree or too higher, but I really don't think you need

[13:37] to. I don't I like my sausage at 140 at 60. So, you know, I would test one and see whether you like it like that. It's it's gonna have shades of the pinkness will still be in the center when you roll it off and fry it, but I'm okay with that.

[13:52] And again, it depends. Let's say you're doing those little thin Ligurian sausages. They take like like no time. And so, you know, those, you know, uh, even just a finish off is going to probably

[14:02] deepink the the inside, but if you're doing like, you know, Kilbas is already cooked, but if you're doing something with that form factor, like a large Italian

[14:09] sausage. What you should never do with a sausage is try to grill it from raw. That's a huge enemy of quality move. I mean, like, you know, the way we were always taught to do it was sausage in

[14:21] the pan, water, cover, water evaporates. You know, but the problem there is, is that you're never actually gauging when it's

[14:28] done because you don't know exactly how long the water's going to take to evaporate, and then it spits and puts that scorching, disgusting nastiness on the bottom of your pan.

[14:36] You're really better off. Immersion circulator, either in oil, like oil, like oil poaching sausage is great.

[14:43] Beer poaching works, but the problem is, is that the 1st, like, the 1st, like, 20 or 30

[14:48] sausage is, it doesn't have to be beer, you know what I mean? Like the 1st 20 or 30 sausages taste different from the next 20,

[14:55] 3000, 200 sausages. That's why you need the sausage brand Solera, New York City, you know, streetcard style. Streetcard style, which you know I've I've had. I bought it and I drank it years and years ago because I forget who it was. I think it was time out in New York. Like, they didn't have, like, they asked me about it. I was like, have you, what, did you just go taste it? and they're like, no. They're like, did you go check the temperature? They're like, no. They're like, that's why we're calling you. So I literally just went downstairs. I said, here's $5. Can I have a Styrofoam cup full of your hot dog water? The guy was like, okay. And then I shoved my thermometer in it, registered the temperature and took a sip. So easy. It's the easiest test in the world to run. This is something I will say to people. Certain tests are just easier to run than to ask someone how to do it, especially if you live in New York and the hot dog

[15:41] car is downstairs. Hot dog water, delicious, tastes exactly like a hot dog. Why hasn't anyone made that ramen yet? I don't know. That sounds like an Ivan ramen question. But like, I mean, it's good. It tastes like hot dog. Right. So, like, everyone who gets all bent about, like, you know, leeching flavor out of

[16:01] things, and every, you ever notice people get super bent about, like, leeching flavor out of things, there's no flavor being

[16:06] leeched out of a hot dog. Now, the texture is going to be the texture of a dog that has been in water, but an emulsified sausage, and I won't get into the

[16:15] particulars just because then Don and I will have to find E-Tramer, one of you and kill you because we have, you know, we have stuff in the works. But the, um, the, you know, the texture of an emulsified sausage, it already has water in it

[16:28] anyway. And so there's no, I mean, extra water, excess water in it

[16:32] anyway because it's a batter, you know what I mean? That's been emulsified. So there's no reason. Not to poach them. You know what I mean? Assuming that the flavor, the liquid that you have it in is fully flavored. Right. Does a long winded, whatever. Dave, you removed our shot. Oh, no, he turned our shot clock so that the the 2 strange folks that are eating pizza outside can see what the the

[16:55] radio type. I have it on mine. I have it on my phone. All right. We have a we have a ramen question. Let me see, let's take him into order. We haven't had done any questions. We have any more callers? Yeah, we do, actually. All right, call her. on the air. Hey, Dave, I just got a quick comment, actually. I just wanted to comment that the quality of the show, the last couple episodes has been fantastic. I've listened to, you know, all 100 or 200 episodes. I mean, really sorry. Uh, but uh, but the guests recently have been doing a great job of challenging you and providing their

[17:29] own uh, perspective. It's been hysterically funny. So I just wanted to thank you for that. And I wanted to make a quick comment that, um, you know, you often say it's a family show and I think you've made that comment just now. You know, if you're talking about, like, how to use

[17:48] methocellules F50 and all the different techniques. I don't know that this is really a family show anymore, and I'd actually appreciate a few more F-bombs and swearing in the show.

[17:59] So that's just my perspective. Thanks for the great show. All right, point taken, but I will say this. A number of years ago. Uh, maybe 3 or 4 years ago, I got, um, I got a, a question

[18:12] in, and it, you know, it was a question from, uh, you know, the parent of

[18:18] a like 10 year old who for some reason listened to the show. Who knows why this happened? Bad parenting. Bad parenting. No, but yeah, but who knows why this happens? And then I was like, oh, I don't want to, you know, because I have kids, so I don't want to, if I'm going to do something that is, you know, ear muff, let

[18:36] them, you know, let people let people know. But, you know, any of those that know me in the real life, right? Uh, Don. I have a mouth on me. Oh, yeah. I mean, like, you know, like, uh, uh, and, you know, I think Don was on, we were talking about this before in reference to, to bars and to, you know, kind of how

[18:56] to, how to treat your fellow employees in a professional situation, in kitchen professional

[19:01] situation. And I don't want the salty nature of the business to change because then I would have no place in it,

[19:10] right? I mean, like, so I'm a big user and lover. In fact, my wife gets very angry because my kids are now old enough that I started to pepper the salt into my daily conversation with the

[19:23] kids, and she's like all mad about it, but, you know, I consider a good, rapid fire, ever

[19:33] changing burbling of curse words to be the hallmark of a smart person.

[19:38] You know what I mean? I think that's right. And I think that that one 10 year old's uh, experience is is sort of uh, affecting the enjoyment for all of us adults. Well, you know, you got you have the code switch, though. Sometimes you're in front of the, you know, in front of house. You got to talk to guests. dial it back. Then when you go back to the back of the house, you know, you let loose. As I get older, I think I might have mentioned this on the air, but as I get older, certain things,

[20:04] like, I've, like, lost. I've lost my control, not like yelling at people, but lost my control like

[20:11] in front of customers like a couple of times. Like, you know, you know, and act like they're not a customer, but you don't want to do that. You really don't want to do that. You want to try to stay as, you know, 2 zones as possible. But I will tell you this. We are thinking of doing another Nastasia and I are thinking of doing another uh, different radio program, like unrelated to cooking issues where we basically get to do whatever we want.

[20:34] So the theory of it, see whether you guys like this, the theory of it, and I should get to some regular question questions, but like the theory of it is that when you go to dinner,

[20:42] do we already talk about this on air, Dave, or not? No, there's news to me. All right. So don't worry, Dave. Not right away, but the... No, we're doing this radio show, but we're going to do it on the network. Oh, okay. And, uh, but not related. So Don, what do you not do at dinner? What do you not talk about at dinner? Politics, religion. Right. So what I want to do, and I have ruined so many dinners in my life. Like so many, like, dinners. Yeah, just obliterated because someone says something and I'm like, what? And then that's it. You know what I mean? What? And that's it. And so what we want to do, Nastasia and I, Nastasia and I have these arguments constantly off air too, like half of our time spent arguing with each other,

[21:25] because believe it or not, Nastasia and I are like very different. Like, I mean, I guess you can believe that. Yeah, anyway, um, it extends beyond her dislike of biscuits. But the coffee. She's not that she doesn't like coffee, it says she... She's ambivalent. It's not that she's ambivalent. She specifically buys crap coffee to make me feel like I'm some sort

[21:48] of, you know, fancy pants. Yeah, yeah, that's what it is. She, she would rather drink crappy coffee. She's one of those people who incorrectly believes it's more American to drink crap coffee. And to me, like, that's everything I hate yet. Like, well, that's I hate that. You know what I mean? Like, I think it's it's bad to be snobby about coffee. It's bad to like look down on what somebody else likes. That's bad inherently. Yeah, but she would also salt the earth just to make fun of you. That's right. Right. And she also enjoys as, you know, to make it back into a family show. yucking my yum. She likes to yuck my yum. Anyway, I'm sidetracking you. Anyway, so anyway, we want to do a show, and I'm also like, I think all of us, everyone in the country, probably, if they, if they have half a

[22:34] brain, is sick of the echo chamber, where we're all only hanging out with people that we agree with. That's why family dinners are so interesting because you don't pick your family. They just show up and they have different views from you, you know,

[22:45] you, a lot of the time that, you know, than you do. And so we want to have people in where we talk about food, ostensibly, but then like a bad dinner conversation, it spirals off into religion and politics.

[22:55] And hopefully we get a good group of people together that disagree, and then we just kind of go off on it. Well, you got a really good nostalgia to be unfiltered though, because she's so buttoned up on this show. Well, if we get someone else who has who's slightly crazier than her on X, Y, or C view, then she will be like, yeah, Dave, yeah. And then I'll go, like, ballistic, bananas. You know what I mean? But anyway, so we're... I would definitely watch her listen to that show and volunteer to be that 3rd person.

[23:24] Nice. All right. Remember, we need a good mix. Always needs to be people that we disagree with. you know, on the air. Anyway, so keep an eye out for it. We're working on it. All right. Thanks for the great shows, Dave. All right, thank you. All right. So Darren wrote in, and I can't remember, Dave, whether we answered any of his questions. Tell me if there's a caller. Otherwise, I'm just going to keep doing questions. There is another call, yeah. All right, caller, you're on the air. Hi Dave, how are you? Doing all right? I listen to that show as well. Good, thanks. Um, hey, I want to ask you, I've been using, um, just kind of like the crappy Britta filter for a while now. Um, mostly uh, trying to get like chlorine out of the water for um, home brewing. Um, and I want to try and like look into, like installing something in the sink. And I'm just kind of curious if you have any recommendations or like what should I be looking for in a system and like how crazy do I need to get with it, I think. Good question. Apartment or house? Uh, apartment. Okay, you you own it or you don't own it? Do not own it. Okay. Do you, okay, you're, what I'm going to tell you to do is not going to damage no one's going to know. Let me ask you this. When you look under your sink, do you see the probably half inch copper pipe coming

[24:32] out or is the what's called an angle stop, which is the thing that shuts the water supply, the cold water supply off to your sink, is

[24:40] it in the wall directly or can you see the half inch copper? No, you can see it. Oh, ha. Okay. Do you know how to use a torch? Uh no. Okay. You might need to hire a plumber or just find anyone who knows how to use a torch. The only danger involved here is that you are that you could burn your apartment down. If you know how to use a torch and you get the shielding, it's like super easy. Here's what most people are gonna do. They're going to go to the big, their local big box store, like a Lowe's or a Home Depot, and you're going to buy, uh, like a, the GE is the brand I use, water filter, and they come, they're basically plastic, um, canisters that

[25:22] screw together, and they have an O-ring, and inside of it is a kind of a, a, you know, a, a circular, a cylindrical filter. And you only need the one that does odor, which is the lowest,

[25:34] the, the, assuming, where, where do you live? Sorry? What city are you in? New York. Okay, your water tastes great other than the chlorine. You don't need to filter out, probably, lead, crypto, whatever they're filtering out. You need just a, like, chlorine odor filter. And the reason you don't want to get a, what they would call higher quality filter is you want the least restrictive filter that does what you need

[25:58] because, um, you're gonna, your flow is gonna go lower and lower and lower over time. And if you're going to be doing anything with it, You want as high a flow as possible. But the classic mistake that everybody makes, and I'm looking at you, whoever was the handyman at

[26:12] Sambar when we tried to install our filter the 1st time at Booker Index. Um, What they tend to do is just unscrew

[26:19] the, um, the connector between the angle stop that I was telling you about and the cold water

[26:24] supply and they screw a T on. The problem is, is that your angle stop is extremely restrictive compared to the half inch pipe.

[26:31] And so if someone tries to use filtered water, uh, you, you want as much, because the filter drops the pressure so much, you want as much

[26:40] input pressure and cross-section area into that filter as possible. So what long story, you're going to want someone to put a copper tea into your line before the angle stop,

[26:53] right? install a full port. I'm going to say this one more time, a full port. Actually, you can get one of these things with its own stop

[27:03] rod, but install a full port ball valve that's the same diameter as your thing. So you can shut the system off if you need, and tee it into a, you know, one of those GE. You don't need a whole house, but the whole house filters last a lot longer, so you get the whole house one because I

[27:19] think what, Don, it's an extra like 15 bucks or something like that. Maybe. You'll save so much more money on the filters. Yeah, and time and hassle. And then, you just run it out of that to, like, another tap that you can put into your sink. And if you don't want to put it in the sink, you don't need to. You can just have a tap underneath. Just make sure you can shut it off because things like, you don't want to pressurize something crappy, like a picnic

[27:41] tap as they're called, because if you're a beer person, you know what I'm talking about, because they could fail at any minute. And when you have something connected to city water that could fail at any minute, you have failed. You know what I mean? So, uh, I would get uh, an actual like line that you can turn off and on. But that's 100% the way to go. And in fact, if you get a good enough filter, You can just have that be the cold water supply for your, um, for your

[28:06] sink and you're going to go through filters a lot longer, but all your water was tastes good out of the cold, out of the cold water tap. The one thing, like I say, I would not, if I were you, attempt to run a

[28:16] filter like off of the normal angle stop that is there. It's just gonna be a heartache for you. You can do it. It'll last for a couple months and your water through that thing was going to be slow, slow, slow, slow, slow. But then it's like a $50 problem. If you have to hire a plumber, now it's 200 more dollars, right? So now you're a $250 problem unless you have a buddy who can come just sweat the stuff together because we're really honestly talking about $15, $20 worth of copper here, maybe.

[28:42] Um, and you know, a lifetime. I've done it in every single apartment I've been in for the past 20 years. You know what I mean? Because that's just like, I can't live with that. I can't live with chlorine taste in my, in my water, especially in my seltzer, and, uh, yeah. Right. awesome. Thank you very much. Really appreciate it. Oh, one more thing. You can get a clear one and you can get the not clear one and when you're buying the GE water filters. Here's the main problem, the GE water filters have. They're made out of plastic. So if you cross thread anything, they become a nightmare and they leak later. And so you want to make sure when you're putting the fittings into the water filters, not to

[29:21] cross-stread anything and to be relatively gentle with the plastic so that it doesn't crack and you're going to need to be able to get the thing off. So make sure that you have good access to it to get to remove the

[29:32] bottom to get it off because that becomes a hassle. And please do follow their instructions to bleed all the air out of it before you're using it or, you know, comedy ensues. Alright. No problem. I got a topic for you for when you get your new show with Nastasia. You got to get someone to come in and talk about chemtrails and how you going to filter out chemtrails in your water. What's a chem trail? You know, the airplane, like the condensation? Oh, yeah, yeah. People who think that that's the government, like, you know, spraying chemicals. It's not Oh, Zing. All right, so should we go to a break and then come back with some questions? Yeah, let's do that. All right, cool. Right back.

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[31:14] For more information and to order yours now, visit chefsteps.com slash J-O-U-LE. And we are back. So during the break, Don and I tried the fried oysters that we told you about. And the crunchy olives made by the Cielo Corporation, and here's my feedback. Don hated the fried oysters. I didn't hate it. I just didn't think it was good. Well, so here's what I, uh, wait, you grew up in, in, do they have crispy clam scrips in LA? Not really. Okay, so if you grew up on the East Coast, you grew up with crispy clam strips. You know who invented the crispy clam strip for Hojos? No idea. Jacques Pepin. Swear to God. Jacques Pepin went from being Charles de Gaulle's being his personal chef. took a job being the head chef of, as Jacques Pepin calls it

[32:07] Lojo, Hojo's. And one of his things, it is claimed, is

[32:13] the Howard Johnson's crispy clam strip. That's crazy. Dave, you like some crispy clam strips, am I right? Absolutely. East Coast. Yeah. So anyway, so these fried oysters taste like, imagine if you had crispy clam strips. You bought them in the East Coast. You flew to Phoenix, let's say that's where you lived, and you left them out on a counter in 120 degree heat and no humidity for like a

[32:38] day, and then you looked at them and you said, I'm going to try that. That's what it tastes like. No bueno. Why do you want that? You want fresh? Well, you say it's an accurate description? Yeah. They're kind of growing on me. I remember, let's rewind a little bit. I'm the guy that when I worked at Domino's Pizza in college. Uh, as a driver. ate a pound of raw bacon because I was bored, and when they said, why do you do that? I said, I thought it was cooked, I just thought it was bad quality. So that's me. Yeah. Anyway. And what do you think about the crunchy olives? Um, they were crunchy. The inside was kind of mushy. That was interesting. Well, it's a dried olive, so I don't know. What kind of raisin-y texture? Yeah, all right. I hear we have a here we have another caller. Call her, you're on the air. Hey, Dave. I just got some leakproof, reusable storage bags, and it says 100% PEVA, and it says they're BTA free. I was just wondering, uh, the usability for sous vide. P says, it's not P-E-T-E. What's PE? Oh, like PETA? Yeah. P-E-V-A. Yeah. Oh, EE. For Googling was a bunch of stuff about shower curtains, though. P-E-V-A. I don't know if I know that, that, um, I don't know. Hey, Don, Google up that resin real quick. But, um, this is designed for food, right? Yeah, food storage. I just don't know if, you know, Polyethylene, vinyl, acid, water bath. I'm sure I've looked this up before, but I just don't know much about, I don't know anything about that resin off the top of my head. I, it, like, for some reason, it's like out of my head. I have no PVDE. Anyway, here's here's my general theory on on these things on plastics. In general, there are certain plastics that, um,

[34:33] when they degrade might make things that are, I mean, what most people worry about are plastic, plasticizers and endocrine disruptors. So things like thalates, things like BPA, which is why, you know, in general, a lot of people in cooking applications try to avoid PVC. Um, and some people avoid um, polycarbonate that's going to go through the dishwasher because when it goes to dishwasher and when it's damaged, apparently you can get, um, uh, BPA from it because that's, you know, one of the monomers, I believe, that polycarbonate is made out

[35:05] of. Although, again, you're, you're, it's been, what happens is every couple of years, someone

[35:09] asked me, and I have to re-up my knowledge on it, and that's when I know more about it. So, um, so 2 classes of things, right? And so the plasticizers are in things, the reason you want to go with PVC is the plasticizers that people are usually worried

[35:23] about. So when you're using PVC for food applications, I usually buy what's called

[35:27] Tigon, which is a very high purity, you know, apparently plastic, then it's supposed to be plasticizer, uh,

[35:32] leash free product. Um, In general, you want to stay, you know, with home stuff with things that are like known to be incredibly

[35:42] neutral, like, um, polyethylene. The problem and that's why, you know, polyethylene wrap is so good, but polyethylene is very bad at high temperatures. It loses its structural integrity. So if this thing is meant for food storage, it could be that, so for instance, a lot of the Ziploc food storage

[36:00] bags versus their freezer bags is a thickness issue. So it's more of an oxygen permeability issue. And one of the reasons that those things aren't cooking bags is because they don't have another layer of something that's tougher, like a nylon that can

[36:14] withstand like, you know, a higher temperature. And so a lot of times when someone says storage, It's because they know that the service temperature of the of the plastic is lower than the average cooking temperature because no one is anticipating, um,

[36:32] no one's anticipating, you know, you low temperature cooking. There's not anticipating it. And that was the case with Ziploc bags. And so the Ziploc bag, they would say you couldn't cook in it because they assume you're going to do boiling bag in it, and that really is kind of above the usable service temperature of a

[36:48] Ziploc bag. And but I got the guys at Johnson to, you know, say that, you know, low temperature was

[36:53] okay. What do you find on the line, Don? Very little information. It's a lot of housewives talking about whether it's safe for their kids in lunchboxes, but as the caller says, it's also a lot of, you know, a shower curtain stuff. Yeah. Yeah, so I tend not to, I don't, answer is, I don't know. I know that there's someone right now making, specifically, because I saw it on, like, Jewel, like, got tweeted out to me or something like

[37:15] that, or somebody tweeted out. Someone's making some reusable. I don't know if they're silicone. Let me ask you this, though. Isn't reusing the bag just like super gross? I mean, yeah, but I just hate throwing away perfect bags for every cook. I just feel like I'm, you know, like a dirty person. No, I'm with you, but like, in other words, like, what does your dishwasher look like and or your sink? Like, see? So like, um, if you've ever like, pastry bags, right? So pastry bags are disgusting to wash out. Everyone hates washing out pastry bags. And, you know, that's why you have those conical things to dry pastry bags. And that's why, you know, the truth is, is we

[37:57] all put, like we all put stuff, we, you know, like at FCI, we're all using disposable plastic cooking bags. I mean, pastry bags, even if you're only using it as a liner because nobody wants to wash out those cloth bags. Everybody hates doing it. Um, and so like my, you know, my thing, my thing is, I'm just worried that, you know, people are going to be like, oh, this is such a

[38:19] hassle and then they're just not going to want to cook that way because they know when they're done. You know, when they're pulling service, now you have to take the bag and you have all the juices and stuff. Now you got to upturn that bag in your sink, let it drain and wash it right

[38:32] away so it doesn't get all stank duty, and then you got to like turn it inside out and let it air out in a place that's not stacked up or it's

[38:40] going to get moldy. So I'd be interested in hearing as you use it over time. kind of how that kind of works out because I would like to have a non-throwing away method, um, you know, to do things. You're either the kind of parent that's going to use disposable diapers or cloth diapers. And if you're going to use cloth diapers, you just got to commit to it. And it's... Well, the cloth diaper thing. Now, again, I haven't researched this in a long time, but like, you know, a lot of people have debunked the cloth diaper because, you know, some people have argued, I don't know whether it's

[39:07] true or false or where it comes down, that it's just as bad to run the washing machines as much as it is to

[39:13] just get the disposable diaper. But that could be dependent on where you live, right? Like water is not in short supply here. Whereas in California, if you're running your washing machine all the time for disposable diet. I mean, for cloth diapers, could be problematic. Right. Yeah. So who knows? The answer is to that. But I'm very interested to hear people's feedback, especially as I'm writing this book. I should be researching this topic more. I've been spending more time on things like the crown roasted pork recipe that I'm working on. The last one I did was slightly overcooked. Slightly overcooked. Poor moisture management. Look, good moisture management on the crust, but not in the interior. Right. again, overall poor moisture management. I was kind of sad. It was so close to being right, but a crown roast is very difficult to get exactly

[39:59] right because if you overcook it a little bit, it's rotten, especially with like, you know, like modern pork. I was so close to it being right though. That's why I got that heritage pork. Got to get the good stuff. Good stuff kids go for. All right. Anyway, please let me know what happens. All right. So, Dave, should I get some email questions here? Yeah, yeah, bang one out real quick. So, um, this one, I think we answered some of these, Darren wrote in. He asked what happened to Indie Jesus. I don't know. And Jack Insley if we can send an email to Jack Insley, ask him to, Maybe he can call in, you know, next week with the story of Indie Jesus and what happened. Nastasia, saw him on the street once, I think. Hey, what's up? This is Jack Insley. Yeah, that that Jackie. Jackie Molecules. Hey, yeah, yeah. Then my girlfriend has celiac disease. And now I love experimenting. I found that it doesn't mean much to replicate glutinous food, bringing something new to the table is far more exciting and meaningful. Do you have frameworks or methods that you guys like to use when working in the lab developer? I don't have a lab right now, but yeah, at home or whatever, developing new recipes. I'm talking inspirational variational creative tweaking, et cetera. So in general, what I like to do is I like to look at recipes that naturally don't have whatever X, Y, or Z thing is that, you know, you don't want to work

[41:20] with and then work from there. So, like, I would look at, like, the panoply of naturally

[41:26] gluten-free uh, food. So inherently you're like, okay, I'm going to go to like, I'm going to look at, at, um, cultures that have a corn-based staple, and I'm going to look at cultures that have a rice-based

[41:38] staple, and if you do that, there's like a zillion, like a bazillion

[41:44] things. So like, you know, I've spent a bunch of time over the last year working on Italy's and Italy's are gluten-free. And so, and the interesting thing about it is that they develop, there are different textures, 1st of all. There are different kinds of textures you can develop, but there are also, I know you said you didn't want to do this, but there are adjuncts that are added to things to make them

[42:03] act, you know, hydrocollage, typically, you know, to make up for the fact that you don't have things like gluten, like witness masa, you know, which is, you know,

[42:14] God's, you know, one of the proofs of God is masa. It's amazing. Niximalization in general. Or like I say, Italy's in India. But then, um, You know, I don't know. what do you think, Don? I mean, just the way of approaching it. You have 2 basic ways, right? Unless you're some genius that can create things in a vacuum. You're either going to take something that already exists, that has gluten, try to make it non-gluten, or you're going to find something that already doesn't have gluten and try to turn that into something that is similar to

[42:42] something that is. Right, I mean, like, you know, the issue, obviously, and you deal with this every day, if, you know, if you have celiacs is like the secret gluten, like the gluten that's, you know, the secret gluten. There's like, uh, you know, why would you think that uh, Szechuan broadbean paste has gluten in it? But guess what it does. You know what I mean? Like, you know, right? I mean, that's like that's the kind of thing you have to kind of look out for. But, uh, I think any, I is going to sound bad. I love stealing ideas from other cultures because they've spent, you know, 100s and 100s of

[43:16] years trying to figure out X, Y, and Z with whatever they have, right? So, someplace that didn't have a lot of glutenous, uh, you know, products with gluten in

[43:26] it or doesn't have a barley base or a wheat-based, uh, culture. I mean, they're going to know how to make good stuff with their stuff. Right. A lot of the problem that I'm finding, though, is like with traditional Asian ingredients, especially the fermented stuff, traditionally, it shouldn't have gluten, but as the modern manufacturing process, they add

[43:41] gluten. They add wheat because it's cheap. So usually if you live in a big enough city with an ethnic population, there's probably some grandmother that is making like miso or like, you know, Korean like

[43:52] kochujang, like red pepper paste and not selling it in stores, but has like some local network, try to tap into that because then you can get some stuff that's homemade, even soy sauce that's

[44:01] homemade, that doesn't have gluten. Right, but I think, you know, I think he's also just more worried about like on the creative. So in other words, there's 2 problems. There is ingredient sourcing, that's like the secret gluten in things, but then there is just kind of thinking

[44:13] around, having, you know, gluten. And I think if you try to put yourself in the mindset of cultures that don't have it, you know, in general, then it becomes very easy because, you know, you're using a different palette, you're using, um, I'll give you

[44:28] anything, I give you, but it doesn't mean you have to mimic the flavors, but you take like the structure.

[44:33] Like, Don and I were talking, like, I have been fascinated for years. I have, like, you know, for a home,

[44:39] probably the largest set I've ever seen of Tolso's. I have like 10 of them. You know what I mean? In my house, of varying sizes. At Tulsa, it's the hot. how do you pronounce it in real life? All right, the Korean stone bowls that are used for... Yeah, the Stone Bowl one. Yeah. What's the other word gobdle mean? The gobdol be bimbab when they put it in the Tulsa? Or is that just a word that's in my head for number? Anyway. So anyway, so the stone bowls. like I find are amazing, but I just steal them and like here's the so here's a thief's mind, right? You go, you have the beib and bop in the Tulsa, right? And you're like, oh, crispy rice, egg, egg

[45:21] cooks, when you stir crispy rice, you need some kind of sauce because otherwise the rice is dry. oil, hot bowl, rice, egg, right? Herb on top, maybe. That's what I do. Anyway, point is that like, that's it. Like, that's the framework. That's the symphony. That's the sonata. That is the structure. And then I add whatever I want to it. Now, as long as, you know, like that's the basic structure. So that's how good thievery works. So, like, uh, uh, with Italy's, I'm like, okay, it's uh, Italy rice, um, uh, fenigreek, you know, uh, you know, whatever you're going to put in, and if normally, you, you, uh, soak it, uh, you know, lentil,

[46:04] doll lentil, you soak it, you grind it in a wet grinder, bought one for this purpose,

[46:08] right now you have the basic thing. Awesome. And you can, you know, any number of sauces, you know, eat them for breakfast. you know, and they're like, I can make this into a dinner thing. Hell, I can stuff it. So did I talk about this on air? I stuff chili and other things into the Italy as though it was a steamed

[46:23] bun, but it's still in Italy. That's good thievery, because you're stealing, you're taking somebody else's culture, but you're not tied to it because it's not your

[46:31] culture. So you can just take the structure of it and use it for other things. It's bad if you're being disrespectful. Right. Don't be disrespectful. Don't be disrespectful. But I think, uh, there's nothing, I think, inherently wrong with, like, looking at other kind of construction. What's wrong is saying that you're doing an authentic X, Y, or Z, or trying to pretend that, you know, that, you know, you're somehow the, uh, the, the, the preacher of somebody else's culture, you know, you know, here in the

[47:01] US, that's where it goes all haywire. But if you're just like, hey, I find that this technique or this structure interesting. I mean, how could anyone get mad at that? Just be a fan of it. Yeah, or like, but they, or like, don't even try your say you're trying to do that. You know what I mean? Like, don't even say that what you're doing is related to what they're doing other than this is where I stole this idea.

[47:21] You know what I mean? Yeah, a tribute. Always. Always, always. It is. So I got one more color, but before that, I got a reply from Jack Insley. He says, tell Dave I miss him so much. And last saw Indie Jesus when he was at a cafe in Williamsburg, I will dig deeper into this. We will get some Indie Jesus information, and we also miss the Jackie molecules. Not that you're not great, Dave, but everybody misses Jackie Mollock. Understood. Wait, so we have a caller? All right, call her, you're on the air. Hello. Hey. Hey, so a couple longtime listeners here, we got a quick question for you. Hopefully as a quick answer. Do you have any method for quickly peeling walnuts? Ooh, you know, my grandpa used to be able to break a single walnut in his

[48:08] hand. A single walnut. That's very hard. I'm just going to mention that offhand. I can break. I can crack walnuts, 2 walnuts in my hand. Now, when you say, uh, but not one. Are you saying that but he was also a jerk? So I'd rather have had him been not so much of a jerk and not be able to crack walnuts. Here's my question for you. When you say peeled, you mean get the shell off or do you mean to get the skin off of it? I get the skin, get the skin off of it? I don't have a good technique for it. But, uh, Dave, anyone, we should put that out to the, you know what? This is an interesting problem. Do you have, are you staring at a giant £50 sack of walnuts right now, and that's why you're telling me about this? Uh, no, actually, it's just like a project that came up like a week ago that we, uh, me and a colleague,

[48:55] coworker of mine, we do about like, um, about 200 grams a day, uh, and it's just

[48:59] like it's so much to do in one day that we actually end up taking them home. And like, uh, my girlfriend and I have this like new thing that we

[49:06] do. It's called Netflix and nuts where we just like sit in bed all day and watch Netflix and peel walnuts.

[49:12] Sounds like a good idea. Family show, family show. Oh, oh, Don, you had to take it there. Walnuts. We all know the joke at the beginning of the Snoop Dogg song with the walnuts and we all know, so we're not going to get into that. That was the Snoop Dogg song, right? Anyway, the... This is an interesting problem. I mean, obviously, I know how to do it for almonds, and, um, For a whole, you know what? I'm going to ask, so McGee, Harold McGee, you know, has access to these fantastic walnuts where there's no tannins in

[49:44] this stuff, and so you don't need to get, you're talking about getting the membrane off from the

[49:49] shell, or you're talking about getting the tannic skin off. Uh, the panic skin. Yeah. Uh, I'm gonna, he has an in with the walnut board. So I'm going to see if I can get in touch with McGee. I think he's back in the US. He was in Japan recently. I'm going to see if he can get in touch maybe with the walnut board and see whether or not the walnut board has

[50:09] any, uh, and I'm going to see someone today whose grandpa is a walnut

[50:15] farmer. Uh, and I will also ask him, like, what's, what's going on? Is there a good way to do this? So, like, you can buy the extremely expensive low tannin varieties, but they're not readily available. And they're from California. But I'll look into it. This is an interesting problem. I don't have any answer for you right now, though. Awesome. Chat room's got nothing. Chadroom's got another. All right, we'll get it going. Just keep reminding me, if you don't hear about it, remind me, because I'm going to be talking to everyone I know that's got some nut, some nut knowledge. I'm going to be pestering them when I when I hear them. That's that, by the way, for those of you that don't, that's how I operate in the real life. So, like, when I see someone, I'll be like, hey, you have any ideas on how to get

[50:56] this? I work, right, John? How to bust that nut? Oh, geez, no, you want to keep the nut whole. Keep it whole. Family show. These nuts? Well, you know we love these nuts. All right, so we still didn't get to. So Dave, I know you're going to make me get off the air here. Here's my question to you. Yes, you do have to read that thing before we go. That was not it, but okay. But Nastasia is going to get real mad because she was so psyched that she was going to miss the show where I was going to actually answer all the questions. We've answered like 2 of the many questions that have backed up. Can we just schedule like an extra, like, we're either going to have to do a no caller show, or we're going to have to schedule an extra, like, where we actually finish these things

[51:35] off, or Nastasia is going to be so mad at me. Yeah, we don't want that. Yeah, it's up to you. however you want to do it. I don't know, man. Cooking should people. Let me know. Let me know what you think about the new show. Thanks to Don for coming in. And on the way out, I'm going to read this monitor's pantry

[51:50] rollout. You want to do it that way? I got one question when I want to leave with your listeners. All right. So I know you don't have an answer to this or you have opinions. But I have this question. What is a churro? So, okay. So, like, is it Churro the actual, like, the batter, or is it the shape? It is, well, in other words, if you were to put, if you were to put meat through a churro press, it would not be a

[52:16] churro. If you were to pour batter into oil and not throw a churro press, it would be a beignet or a donut. But it's specific kind of batter. It's not your regular beignet batter or your, you know, it's it's like this like hot batter. I have to look up the churro recipe. First of all, let me ask you a question. Are you a fan of Italian Christmas pastries? Not particularly? Oh, yeah. Yeah? Yeah. Well, so you know how they have like all kind of Italian has all kind of like cold fried things? Yeah. Like Stroovely and all that stuff. Like, yeah, so like, but, and they don't want to eat it fresh. That's the thing. They don't want to eat it when I think that they should want to eat it, which is funny. So churros, I like a hot churro, but on the subway, they're all culturos. Oh, those are terrible churros, though. But they sell like churros. That's because that's like New Yorkers who've never had a real churro. Uh, the guy selling it is not like, you know, I mean, the guy selling

[53:20] it presumably knows what a churro tastes like. Yeah, but the guy would rather have a real churro set up and be making him fresh if he could. It's just that he's in a New York City subway. See, I don't like this. Here's my point. It's like, if you, people, if you are in a situation where you cannot make X

[53:38] product the way you want to make it, then do not make X product, make Y product or Z product.

[53:44] So you do not believe that this person thinks that the churro that he or she is selling is a valid churro. You think that it's always, you think this person gets up at 0 in the morning, loads up the big board of

[53:59] churros, with all that plastic wrap over it, and the cart, wheels it onto whatever subway line, like hauls their butt out

[54:05] there and sells it knowing that they're selling crap. Knowing that they're selling to people who won't know the difference and that they have to make this compromise because that's the way they're going to make a living. But you could sell anything. You don't need to sell churros. You could sell a different product. garbage. Cookies, for instance. You could, but that's what they sell. I'm not this person. I don't know. Do you like a cold donut? You like a cold donut? Yeah, cold donut's okay. By the way, Wiley's opening his place. Yeah, do his own. Yeah, I didn't get to go to the Friends family, and neither did you, because we were working edible schoolyards last night. But that's when Friends of Family. Otherwise, we would have been there eating his donuts. I heard they were delicious. The rest of my family enjoy them. Anyway, so look out for Wiley's Donuts opening up. But to me, the hallmark of a good donut is a donut that is good cold. Not a churro, huh? Churro has to be hot. All right. All right. Space, space races. So could you could you put churro batter into a waffle iron? And then when it comes out, like put the cinnamon and sugar on it? No. Is that a churro? Could you put a churro in a tandor, John Deragon style? No. No. No. John Dergon wants a tandor everything. Yes, but you still need a fryer. You could fry the churro and then maybe reheat it in a tandor. How about that? Or, you know, you can't reheat it in a waffle iron because that would be... Listen, I can't go too much into the technology of waffles because then I'll be divulging things that Don and I are working on.

[55:31] Let me just put it that way. I cannot go too deep into waffle technology at this point. Give us like three, 4 months and I can go into waffle technology. But the origin of the churro. What is it? I will have to do more research. I have to do more research and we'll leave that with the cooking issues listener. And here, thank you for coming. Here is our, I was supposed to read this earlier, but here it is. Ready? Modernist pantry is created by food lovers and cooking issues fans just like you. Janie, Chris, and the modernist pantry family, share your passion for experimentation and have everything you need to make culinary magic happen in your own kitchen.

[56:02] Professional chef, home cooked, food enthusiast, no matter what your skill or experience, modernist pantry has something for you. They make it easy to get the ingredients and tools you need and can't find anywhere

[56:12] else so that you can spend less time hunting and gathering and more time creating memorable dishes and culinary experiences. Visit modernistpantry.com to today, discover why

[56:23] cookie issues listeners call modernist pantry the Cook's Secret Weapon. Be sure to check out their new kitchen alchemy blog at blog.modernestpantry.com for free recipes, tips and tricks. And don't forget to follow modernist pantry on social media to keep up with all that is new and exciting in the world of culinary ingredients and tools.

[56:40] Cooking issues.

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