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[1:09] Hello and welcome to Cooking issues. This is Dave Arnold, your host of cooking issues coming to you live on the Heritage Radio Network. Every Tuesday from roughly 12 to roughly 1245, uh, for Birds Peachwick, Brooklyn, uh,

[1:22] joined, uh, as usual with Nastasia, the Hammer Lopez. How you doing, Stas? I'm using Nastasia's normal microphone, and it's even more kind of like... It's even worse than mine. I'm surprised. I always thought I was giving you the good one, but no, it's all like bent and crooked. We got Dave in the booth, how you doing, Dave? I'm good. not been in crooked in here. Wow. Mine just lord it over us, Dave. I think I just did All right. But listen, you're going to want to get your telephones or whatever you use Skypeages or whatever you do to call in your questions to 718-497-2128. That's 718-497-2128 because today in the studio, we have 2 special guests. We have Elias Cairo from Olympia Olympia provisions. I always want to say Olympic, and then you'll shoot me in the face. I'll support you. All right. In Portland, we met, how long ago? Like, but in the spring, Six months ago? Yeah, yeah, at the Oregon Truffle Fest, and I had the great good fortune of going to a special dinner at

[2:18] EdOP and Fantastic. So I'll just say for those of you that are going to Portland legit, I'm going to give it the cooking

[2:25] issues, legit stamp. Awesome. And we also have in the in the studio, Samantha, what's your last name, Samantha? Chulick. Chulick. And you are a food PR person, huh? That is correct. Wow. So what's so like we're just going to get this out of the way now. So did you start out wanting to be a food PR person or are you just a general? By the way, do you find the term flack offensive or not? No we're good. All right. So did you start out as kind of a general purpose flack so you could either be selling thumb tax or food or cars? Are you one of these people that actually enjoys food? I, strictly food and beverage. All right, so as we like to say, one of the good ones. Yeah. Because, like, you know, like, in a lot of businesses, I'm sorry, you know, the last, you know, talking about, it's like you get these people in there. They don't really care what the hell they're selling. You know what I mean? It's like Dave over here. He doesn't care what he's recording. Noise. Wow, is that really what you think of me? I'm just busting you because of a microphone crack, Dave. Come on, you know it's all love in here. Do you feel better now? No, I feel slightly dirty. So we got a bunch of cool stuff. Call in your questions, like I say. So, you know, for those of you that don't know Elias, he's like a hunter, a cure master,

[3:39] uh, like a, you own these 2 restaurants, right? Two real restaurants and then 3 fast casual, like hot dog beer bar top places. And then also wrote, what is it now? Well, wrote a 1000000000 years ago and then came out like a year and a half ago, right? It takes a 1000000000 years to write a book. It's slowest thing I've ever done. Yes, I'm just going to get this out of the way right now. My kids, both my freaking kids, decide last week. In the middle of me writing a book that has a lot of meat cookery, that this is going to be the time that

[4:07] they go vegetarian. You know what I'm talking about? It happens, right? And so here it is. I'm like, you know, what am I going to eat? Whole freaking crown roast by myself. I'm going to eat like I'm going to do like a Chateaubriand for one. Like, what the heck am I going to do here? Invite the neighbors over, make it friends. Yeah, but you know what? I'm just not like that. I'm not like that So, I don't know how it is in Portland. First of all, by the way, you guys, uh, over there at Olympia Provisions, the only people in Portland who are guaranteed to be working at any given

[4:38] time. am I right? Yeah, I mean, like, what is what is it with Portland and the lack of, like, work? They're there. Not everybody moves to Portland to work. Some people move there just to retire. Enjoy the fricking rain. But people are retiring. They're like 20. I know. A lot of them. I know, I get slack all the time for being hard-working. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nastasia has got her Portland face on, which is, I can't believe nobody's working here. Really, it's all jealousy. why didn't we do this? But anyway, I don't know how we got. I don't know how we got on the subject of working in point, yeah, working in it. But anyway. So, yeah, so this book came out in, what, the end of 15 or something like that? Yeah, October. Yeah, so it's called American Equality. How do you pronounce the title? American charcuterie. Olympi? Do you start with the Olympian provision? I say Olympia provisions. And then American charcuterie equality meats. Yep. I say cured meats and tails for Olympia provisions from an American triguterie. See how I had to read that? I like that. But anyway, what I'm going to say about this book, and we actually talked about it a little bit in Portland. It's a super pretty book. Like I think it's like a really, really beautiful book. And, um, what I, and I mentioned this to you and you actually said, I think, unless my memory is like Zonked, I didn't have that much

[5:50] sparkling wine that day, that, uh, you know, one of my favorite series of cookbooks in the world is the

[5:55] Timelife series of cookbooks, uh, that came out in, I guess starting in the late 60s and going through the early 70s where they go around the world.

[6:02] And the cool thing about it is, well, the cool thing now is you can get them for like $2 apiece, they're still free. You get the whole set. People go out right now, go on eBay, get the whole set. A must have. Yeah, must absolutely must have. And they hired, not that food photographers aren't real photographers. Please don't get me. I don't want to hear it, but they hired people who, like, were, you know, like, for instance, sports illustrated photographers or, you know, general subject photographers. And so these books have some of the sickest photography like anywhere. And so like a lot of the photos you have here have, I mean, they're modern. not from the 70s, but they, uh, you know, it's printed on that kind of matte paper. So it's got that awesome kind of flat feel to it. And, you know, you've got a lot of like, you know, not straight recipe shots in it.

[6:50] Um, and so anyway, so I think it's a really, really, uh, uh, really beautiful book. And I also, um, I like the way that it's, uh, you know, it's, it's also personalized. You know what I mean? So it reminds me of like, you know, anyone who writes nowadays is going to

[7:05] be obviously more, not that he wasn't technically minded. Don't get, but like, you know, Bertoli's book, Hooking by Hand, right, was, I think, an extremely personal book that was tackling some technical subjects before anyone else had written on

[7:18] this, on these kinds of subjects before. And I still think it's a, I mean, I haven't, okay, I haven't read it in over a decade. Still such an amazing book. Yeah, but I mean, great book. But so like, you know, I really like books that are personal, but that tackle like real issues in the kitchen. And you can tell when you go through it that this is, you know, written. you know, I know some of the recipes are yours, some are like, you know, pastry chefs, some are a bunch of people, but written by people who actually know what they're doing. It's not like you made this once and now you've written it down and that's it, which is, you know, an unfortunate thing

[7:48] cookbooks. Hey, speaking of reading, can you quickly read that thing I put in there? Oh, God, dang it. The pre-roll ad. We're going to do some business. You got to do some business. Today's program is brought to you by modernist pantry, providing magical ingredients for the modern cook, for free videos, recipes, tips and tricks. visit blog.modernistpantry.com. Back to your regular reschedule program. Nailed it. All right, let me, let me see the book for second. I want to read this quote that I think Nastasia is going to love the most out of the introduction because this is like, this is

[8:16] what, going back to like, like a work ethic in Portland. You grew up like a Greek family in freaking Utah. Salt Lake City. What's that all about? There's a lot of Greeks out there. Really? Yeah, yeah. It's the same climate as like the Spartan mountain Greeks, you know, sage breast, cold winters. There's a ton of Greek, great Greek food. Really? Yeah, yeah. So my dad moved out there because copper mine, the Kennicott copper mine was originally owned by a Greek man and he brought all of his hard-working Greek friends from the mountains to come mine

[8:42] it. And then they came back and told their children how amazing Salt Lake City is. At least that's how the story goes. And there's a ton of Greeks and a ton of Greek churches out there. And yeah, great food. So, like, is there a big culture clash between, like, you know, the Greek Orthodox and the Mormon? Is there like a? Yeah, you know, like Michelle and I and Billy Villamis if you're out there. We're the only 3 Greeks in our elementary school and the rest were all LDS. LDS are beautiful people. There's a little quote in their little story in there that we got called to the principal's office because we stunk too much like garlic, and the kids couldn't focus, and my father walked in and like super Greek, like, you know, thick

[9:17] accent and be like, your children smell like detergent and whipped us out of school. And it like took us, like, it's like, you're not going there. We're teaching in the rest of the year. We stayed at home and homeschooled. smell like the Turkey. Well, this is going to be apropos. So this is a quote about your dad, uh, where, you know, you're, I guess, you know, uh, paraphrasing what he might say to you, need glue, go cut into the pine tree and mix the sap with sand to make it

[9:38] pliable. Oh, you were planning on buying glue? Are you lazy or just stupid? So true. Right? And Stasia, like now, Nastasia didn't know you, but now she loves you because that's like her, that's her whole attitude.

[9:50] her whole attitude on it. Also, another thing Nastasi's going to like about it. You spend some time cooking in Switzerland. This crazy, did you see this place and stuff? He worked at this restaurant where it's like someone just, I don't know how the hell they got the building there, but it's like a carbuncle shoved onto the side of a freaking mountain.

[10:10] What's that what's that place called? That one's called the Hotel Asher, or Bearg restaurant Asher. It an app and cellar. It's just on the fucking Liverpool. Where is the, where is it? That's in the northeast corner of Switzerland. That's in the Cantun app and cellar, but that whole region is called Sangala. So like Austria, Germany, the Bodense, or what do you, yeah, Lake Constance, all that right there. The mountains right above there. How the hell do they get their fat? 1st of all, like where are their customers coming from? Yeah, like the Swiss are super hardy people and they love to eat when they're hungry. And so, like, the idea of going on an all day hike to eat, like, you know, huge smoked meat and chunk of cheese and like some fruit is just what they love to

[10:45] do. And, like, you'll be out there hiking, thinking you're pretty cool, and, like, a 70-year-old grandma will fly by you, just being like, oh,

[10:50] do, do, do, yodling, and a dude cruising up to the... Did you learn to yodel while you're over there? No, not very good. I tried. Nastasi and I both love the yodeling game on the Price is Right. beautiful game. Yeah, yeah, yeah. remember that? What were we making fun of? Temperature. You need to add that in your book. The CV temperature, like the yodel. And then if you get the wrong temperature, it's over. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. awesome. And we were trying to remember the tune. I can never remember the tune. right? We could never like, for some reason, it's one of the, you know, there's those tunes that just leave your head and you can't get

[11:22] them back in your head. And then there's those tunes, like the theme from Quincy that go into your head, you can't get them out of your head. Three weeks later? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, or Rockford files, for that matter. But Rockford Files, I feel, deserves to be in your head. I mean, you know, rock profiles with Sanford Sun, whenever those theme songs come into your head, you're like, all right. That's good, fair. That's good business. All right, so before we get too far in, a couple of bones I have to pick, so we might as well fight about it now. We're both lovers of nitrate and nitrites, obviously. in curing. And you make a lot of amusing points about, you know, not kind of worrying about

[11:56] it because a lot of people are worrying about it, especially over probably on the west coast, you get all the... right All the time. Literally for everything, that voice. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, like, you know, the thing is, I think I've said this on air, but like, it's only been the last 3 years that people have gotten through my armor at events.

[12:13] Like usually I can maintain my kind of, I'm happy to serve you, customers always

[12:20] write kind of a thing. It's only been the past couple of years. If somehow it's just like too many hits and I'm like, I was like, oh. you do the breath. Yeah, yeah. And so this stuff, he's like, what the hell is that? Because I always ride her about it. You know what I mean? I always ride her like a pony for like, for like showing her displeasure in front of the family show. But oh, well, not like that. You know what I'm saying? Dang, mandy. Gutter day. And... Anyway, so like, you know what I'm saying? Only recently I've been like, but the, uh, so you say that it's 100% illegal to cure meets without,

[13:00] uh, you know, nitrates or nitrates, but super long cure stuff like dry cure, like hams, like prosciutto department you can do without nitrates. Not that you need to, not that I think it makes it better, but the classic Italian one nowadays is made without that stuff.

[13:12] And furthermore, you can do anything legally if you have the 100s of 1000s of dollars to spend it, it's a safe process. to prove it. Yeah, you got to prove it. You got to prove it. But yes, in general, I think what you're, like, what I think you're probably reacting to it. Harold McGee sent me an email. Uh, yeah, about Oscar Meyer now is doing their nitrate free, nitrate

[13:32] free, hot dogs. Yeah, of course. Hot dogs. And it says, uh, cured. Oh, see, the only the nitrates, of course, it's the standard. Only the nitrates naturally found in celery, jokers. Like they should be, everyone should be skewered. This is Whole Foods' fault. 100%. This is freaking Whole Foods fault. You know, Samantha, you don't flak for them, do you? No, I did not. All right. So like, like, it's 100% their fault. It's garbage. I mean, the food can be taste good, but the labeling is garbage. Yeah, it's total smoking mirrors. Everybody out there, I want you on all of your labels and in all of your food on your menu to write to write this. contains no salt other than that naturally found in the ocean. Yeah, and then you're like, oh, sea salt. Oh, yeah, you know what mean? Yeah, yeah, right? You can do it. Because it's the same freaking thing. You know what I mean? Absolutely. It's like you take like 8 billion. What do they do with the rest of the celery? Well, they just pure it. So they load the they load the soil or chard or whatever they're using for their nitrate thing. They overload the manure with nitrate. And so when the spinach or the chard's growing in that, it picks up all the extra nitrate, the exact same compound that is in regular

[14:38] nitrate. And they puree, and then they use that as their salt and their nitrate. just the same thing. Total loophole. My favorite thing is that called Switzerland, right, where I did my apprenticeship. I was like, hey, man, you know, what are you guys doing about nitrate, just total brain farts, like they'd give a living shit about it. they're like, hey, what are you talking about? We give nitrate to our children when they're sick. Like, it's good for you. It's a vitamin. I know what the hell's wrong with you Americans. I'm like, good conversation. I'm gonna leave now. Yeah, well, but on the other hand, the Europeans have their own issues, right? I mean, like every place has its own issues. But before the cooking issues. Anastasia flips through there and look at the, do you see the hot dog picture? think I bookmarked it. No, I just think it's like, this is the kind of picture I like. Like a bunch of hot dogs, and then like a couple pictures later, this, this, Oh, I know this inn that's shoved into the side of a mountain. So question, how the hell do they get their food into that place? Depending on where. So this place is pretty amazing. The one that's called the Asher is because their whole thing is they have these 2 gigantic limestone water pits behind there that that's the only water they

[15:36] can get up there. So the water filters through the cliffs and lands in these limestone pits. As soon as they're out of water, they're completely closed for the year, and then they go back to carrying me, hunting me and raising me. What do you think about that, Anastasia? Oh, yeah, it's super, they're super freaking amazing. This place up there to put it into perspective with 2 cooks does about 500 covers at lunch. And they do roshti, which is, you know, boiled potatoes and that. you know, now there's a tram. It goes up the backside and they bring it across on mule. But still, like the water and all the meat, the father and son bring up on mule, like twice a year. Literal pack meal. pack meal. Yeah. The one, the bigger one, the one at the end, the Roachstein Pass, the one where you see these

[16:12] sign these ibex there. This is the path to it. It's up like this cliff, and you run across it, that one, the only way to get anything up there is with mule. So everything is brought up on mule. And they do Steinbokfeffer, which is those ibex that are soured like sour Broughton, and then they slowly braise it and then they thicken it with blood. And so it makes it, then they can it, and then they put it on the mules, and then they take it up top. And when you get up there, you're also going to have Rochti, Steinbok Pfeffer, applesauce, and sour cream. So like, what's the portion size on that? Really? Oh, that's huge. Yeah, no, like a roasti. go get a charcuterie board or a cheese plate, any one of these places and it's like for 10 in America. Well, you hiked up the side of a freaking house. You deserve it. That's like uh, that's like I was talking to uh, a Sherpa. And he was like, I was like, yeah, how come, you know, you're Buddhist and everything, but you eat

[16:58] meat. He's like, you have, we eat nothing but fat. We live at the top of a freaking mountain. Yeah, we need so many calories. A carrot after climbing ever snow? No. You pound, yak, and yak meat, yak, fat. yak butter and yak milk. I was like, that makes total sense. That makes total sense to me. So did you get to go hunting when you were in Switzerland or no? Yeah, the guy, so the guy that I worked with that I did my apprenticeship under was the Jagermeister of the Valley. So he owned this hotel and butcher property. That means hunting master, not the liqueur. The liquor master we got to drink. No. So if you wanted to shoot an animal in our valley. You had to go to Bierger and ask him if there was any unhealthy animals. Could you hunt it? Where should I do it? And after you shot the animal, you'd bring it to our restaurant in our butcher shop, and we'd process it for you. You know, there was tons of different ways we could process, sell it back to you, buy it off you, use it in the restaurant, but we would cure and ferment and make all of our meat out

[17:49] of like, you know, 2 to 300 wild animals a month. So the Jagermeister is literally like a traffic cop for shooting animals. Exactly. And he knows where they're all at. So like every single day he's up super early with binoculars, like just scoping for animals and he took me a couple times with him. I was never able to kill an animal, but like after year 3 of me like cutting up animals and working my ass off, he's like,

[18:09] tomorrow we go hunting, and I was like, holy shit. So, like, wait, is he, like, take the one with the busted horn. It's not so good in the picture. Is that what he's like? It's like the sick ones. You know, they don't shoot young ones. Like, there's a story here in there where he shot his 1st elk.

[18:25] It's very hard to find elk up there. And so that's very small herds. And he got an elk from his, like, all the other Jägermeister's men and said there's this young elk coming up. You follow it until it's sick and you kill it and he followed it for 14 years. And he kept, every one of it sheds. So every time it shed it every year, he followed it and then he finally shot it stuck in a snowbank. So, like, it was on its deathbed, and he's like, I think the other Yeager was like, he was actually in Austria, across from Switzerland. He's like, I see your elk, Bjarger, come, shoot. So like that voice, even though they're German. I like that. So wait, so here's so they're predominantly hunting older animals then. So how's that for cooking? It's musky, but I love that. Like, I like game funk, you know? Have you been to the Spanish people who do the raised super old cows? Like, you know, Jeffrey Steingard and Harold McGee were like, oh, oh, the seven-year-old cow? Mom, mom, mom. I mean, they don't talk like that, but you know what I mean? But like, ma, ma, ma. I'm Jeffrey Steingarten, man, man. But, uh, the, uh, no, but I mean, like, you know, it's this, it's this thing in Spain, obviously everyone in America shies away from old meat in general. Um, but I mean, just from a cooking standpoint. I mean, to people respond to the different texture well over there, or like when you're cooking for an American, you can't really translate that kind of a recipe. Totally. Yeah, I mean, like an old, like a five-year-old ibex liver, for example, and you would eat liver, all

[19:51] that, like, the wild animal liver is so sought after. You're not serving that to anybody in America. They're like, they're taking a bite of that. I know like Americans who won't eat deer liver over a year old. Right. You know what I mean? Like, they were like, you know, no, God, I love deer liver. I know, but you're absolutely right. I mean, you'll see people hunting that leave two-thirds of the animal out there and you're just like, in Europe, that does not ride. You're never going to stumble upon like a half cleaned carcass. It's like whole animal brought out everything utilized. Everything enjoyed very, very much so. By the way, do you do any low temperature cooking with hunting? You ever pull out a circulator and bust it down? No, I'm so old school. I don't even know what a like a circulator is. Everything I make takes like, you know, natural fermentation. I know, it's amazing. People do God's work for those things. just don't know how. Well, I mean, the interesting thing is I never have access to really old, old meat. I'm cute. I'm curious about it. Like the, you know, I've cooked super old meat. Um, only occasionally, and you only get it from, like, weird people, and there was this guy in Chicago who used to sell, uh, that kind of meat, but I since found out that he, uh, basically, not only should he go to prison, he did go to prison for doing, like, illegal,

[20:59] um, animal practices. So I don't buy from him anymore. Yeah, you know what I mean? But anyway, so, well, I can hook you up. I can find old meat for you. I have a big elk cunt coming up this spring that I'm looking to get like an old bull elk,

[21:14] so if I get one. Are people worried with older elk now about chronic wasting or is that people not worry about that anymore? I haven't had anybody worry about it. in a long time. So, yeah. Nice. I mean, I'll shoot an old... See, I get cow tags, right? Every year, that's where you shoot the female count. I usually use those for my meat at home. And that's very often ethically thought they'd kill the cats, they're very young baby elk or a cow. And they like that because it's like the veal of it, and I've never been able to do that yet, to shoot like a 6 month old elk. I always shoot the mom elks. Now, from an ethic standpoint is that if you're shooting the young one, it's like, well, he had a bad shot anyway.

[21:49] It's like he was going to die maybe anyway, so kill him now. I think ethically people are trying to justify. I don't know why. I try to get the most amount of meat out of animals that I kill, is that if you kill their mom, the calf's probably going to die too. So you just have to spend a lot of time, like making sure that the calf, you're about, excuse me, the cow that you're about to kill isn't about to, you know, doesn't have a calf.

[22:10] And then you're feeling good about it. Right. Well, it also, like, I think people would be shocked. I looked at the numbers a long time ago, but in the east coast in hunting areas,

[22:19] like the percentage of deer that deer now, because they don't have anything else here,

[22:25] right? But the percentage of deer that are going to end up, you know, in a hunter's plate is extraordinarily high, right? I mean, like, I mean, like it's more than you'd think. Oh, here I would imagine. Yeah. I think it's a 3 day season and like 4000 elk or deer get killed in a day or something like that. It's like insane. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. Speaking of hunting, so you have brought something. I did. I'm super happy about this I do a lot of bird hunting in Oregon. We talked about it lately, and I know that you wanted to get back into bird hunting at some point in your life. I've never gotten to do it. I've always wanted. You've never done it. No, I've always wanted to. Well, it's not true. In Italy once, in Italy, I went on a BS pheasant hunt. It was, it was, they're fake. fake. planted pheasants and bird dogs. Yeah, it's fake. I didn't feel so good about it. I ate the bird. It's delicious meat. Yeah, yeah. You're still going to shoot a gun on a bird. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, but, you know, it's not hunting, right? No, it's, it's, it's more, I think, it's more for training the dogs and then getting the rifle ready

[23:23] to, or like your shotgun good at shooting. I utilize it once a year. Like right at the beginning, I try to tune my dogs up and... This dog in Italy was so stupid too. It's the worst. It was like, it was like at the very beginning of the season and we weren't like their real customers and so they were testing out like their new dog on us. And so Nastasia. People are going to like, this is how this works, though, people. They take and they just, they disorient the pheasant so that it doesn't immediately take off, right? And then they put it in a bush. You know what bush it's in, right? tell you where it's at. Well, in this scenario, they were shooting it for something. like, you know, and then and then they let go of the dog and the dog's just sitting there scratching its ear. And they're like, hey, Fido. You know, and they're like, yeah, go over your, yeah, and like, I don't know what they call dogs and, uh, it's when we were shooting a, uh, we were shooting a piece on uh,

[24:18] ancient um, ancient cooking techniques, and they wanted us to actually go get the animals, even though it was Roman, even though the Romans actually would have raised their pheasants in captivity and just broken their necks and not, there wouldn't be all this, like, you know,

[24:31] buckshot out of it. shotguns in Roman era. Not too many. You know what I mean? You know, and, you know, I doubt the average Roman was sitting there like, you know, hurling rocks at pheasants to try to

[24:41] get. Yeah, I mean, like, you know, this is a sophisticated group of people. And they, you know, they had, you know, they raised pheasants. And, you know, they definitely, I'm sure the Romans, if they were going to train their dogs, would have done a better

[24:52] job. Yeah. And so like, they started chucking things towards the bush to get the dog to look at the bush. That's horrible. It's so depressing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then finally, you know, we're sitting there and we're like, oh, and then it takes off. It was a good bird. Tasted good. Although I forget, you're going to have to, so what do you have here? Show me the bird you had you brought here. I got you a chucker. And this was a true wild Oregon chucker knot. So these, when you shoot these, they're up on the rimrock way above like the rivers, like the John Day. This one came off of the John Bay, and they're non-native to Oregon, but they're the most amazing game bird.

[25:24] So they called, so they're invasive? They're not invasive. They planted them for they planted them for game birds, you know, 20 years, 30 years ago. And now they've just done amazing. So how do they taste relative to like, so the size here, they're bigger than a pigeon or squad. squab-ish size. They're squabish, slightly larger. They're about, you know, a little bit smaller than a good grouse or a rough grouse. But they are very plentiful and they're amazing. They live up in the sagebrush. And so they eat a lot of sage. And so their flavor picks up like that real wild sage rustler. Pass it over? Yep. But yeah, they're super fun and they're like one of the hardest game birds to shoot. Like, your dog will point them maybe sometimes a half a mile out and, you know, you'll get up on your dog and you'll know which direction they're going to fly and 20 to 30 of them are flush and you'll miss all of them. And then, you know, one out of 10, you'll probably hit. Okay, so I'm looking at this bird here. I'm terrible at plucking birds, by the way. I'm just terrible at it. time to start. Yeah, but we're not going to plug this right now, are we? it's on a game bird, right? So I know like, I know like on, like, I've done pheasant, not just in that time in Italy, but in France, you know, you go to France and you

[26:32] can buy pheasant on the, you know, on the feather or whatever they call it, feathered in the, you know, GBA

[26:38] shops. You know what I mean? And you go there. And once those feathers set, man, fucking is a nightmare. Is this going to be a similar situation? You know, Chucker, like those desert birds, chucker, quail, grouse, and all the ones that have more fat living a burlier from hot to cold climate are much easier to pluck than pheasants.

[26:55] Pheasants are the most difficult bird to pluck in the whole world. Very, like, they're just horrible. ruined the skin. I ruined the skin. Yeah, depending on how that one looks like we shot it pretty good, so I don't see many bullet holes in it. Where is it shot? It looks like it's like in the neck and the wing right there. And that could have been a runner. I could have winged it, which is ideal. And then the dog grabs it and brings it to you. But yeah, you know. Now, do you don't hang these things until they start stinking? You're not one of those kind of guys. This is why I brought you this one. I'm not. I'm usually not, but I was hunting with this guy and we had like one of those great days where we each got like our limit, which is 15 of those birds in a day. It was an amazing, amazing day. And he told me that he enjoys the flavor of freezing them whole with the guts in them. So that's what we got here. I have 3 of them that I have. It's too cool in my life. And there's a so all like, this is how he does it and he loves the flavor more. And he's like, oh, an epic hunter and he cooks really, really well. So he doesn't dress it out. doesn't dress it. No, he'll he will he'll just freeze it all like this. Let the flavors develop in his freezer. Then he plucks it and then draws all the guts out, and then he roasts it or cooks it further. So he does draw it before he before he cooks it. Yeah. before he cooks. Yeah, do that for sure. So it's not like, it's not like, uh, like a, remember that, remember that, uh, woodcock we had? Oh, that people hang with the guts in? Oh my god. It was the most disgusting. I liked it. I liked eating it, but for Nastasia watching her face was the most display. The way he ate it. This stuff was flying on my face, too. disgusting. So when you're hunting a small bird, right? The flavor probably changes a lot depending on what you puncture, right? Yeah, well, the biggest flavor I always say about like the grouse is the best, you know, the grouse live in the forest. The sagebrush, excuse me, so like, you know, chuckers and other desert, Hungarian partridge live in the sage, they pretty much have one diet. But a grouse, like a mountain grouse in the spring, eats berries, and then once it gets into cloater in the fall, it eats like rose hip and gooseberry. And then in the midwinter, it eats pine. Like pure pine lives up pine in Juniper berries. And that's the biggest flavor difference because you can see it when you open up that bird, you open up its crop right here. You'll see what it's been eating. So this one should be full of sage and seed. What do you do? You cut here and clean out, and then you do the triangle by the butt and rip the stuff out, just like a smaller version of a chicken. absolutely. 100% exactly. just like that. Beautiful. All right. We'll post some pictures. It looks like you got clipped on the back a little bit. There it goes. Yeah, maybe that's where it was at. But, you know, then again, I haven't ever. I've never frozen a full bird and ate it myself, so it'll be... And

[29:28] luckily, this is, you know, a serving size for one. So my kids are different vegetarian. Don't have to worry about it. Well, thanks so much. Of course, yeah. This is awesome. I've never been, no one's ever brought a whole bird on the feather to cooking issues before. So, uh, I guess we should answer some high tech. Dave, we got a call? Yeah, as many as we got. We got some caller. You on the air. do you got? Hi, Dave, this is Colton from Vale, Colorado. How you doing? Doing well. are you guys? Okay, so 1st of all, big fan of the show and big fan of Liquid Intelligence. I actually use that book a lot more in the kitchen than I do for cocktails, but anyway, great book. Thank you. So, I got a couple questions. First one is on Ultra tech. Okay. Why are you using text and not spurs, by the way? Why are you using text and not spurse? Um, it's just what? we have at the restaurant I work at? right, go ahead. But anyway, um, so we make a spinach tray at the restaurant and we've been having trouble keeping it green for more than a day. Um, and one of my chefs said that what he usually does and what usually works

[30:45] for, stuff like that is pureeing the spinach, the blanched and shock spinach with a little bit of ascorbic acid, um, ultra text and a touch of like some neutral cooking

[30:55] oil. Um, but I don't, after all the research that I've done, I can't find a reason why that would work.

[31:02] Do you have any thoughts on that, any advice? No, I don't. I'll say this. So Ultra Techs for by the way, I would switch to Spurse, but like

[31:12] Ultra Techs is a pre-cooked starch, right? So, you know, so what it has the ability to do that a regular starch wouldn't have the ability to do is absorb liquid.

[31:27] So basically what you're doing is just, um, you're just sequestering some of the liquid in with the starch.

[31:35] So maybe that's helping you out a little bit. It's also going to help run out on the puree. So I don't know if it's going to help with the greening, but it's going to help with that gross runoff that spinach puree

[31:47] has. You know what I'm talking about? You all know what I'm talking about, right? Yeah, yeah, that's why you squeeze the ever-loving hell out of it. Uh, and that and that squeeze water also is an ugly color typically in my... experience. Um, right. The reason I switched to spurse is, um, spurse is what's called, it's the same product as, uh, as ultra text, but it's pre-agglomerated. So it's like, uh, it looks more like, uh, it looks more like, uh, like Bisquick or something. It dissolves easier. Not that you're going to have that much problem with clumping in spinach puree, but if you were to throw it in pure water, it would. Ascorbic acid is going to prevent any enzymatic action, but the thing you have to worry about with acids is too much

[32:34] acid and you'll start destabilizing the chlorophyll. Uh, but I don't know, I don't know, uh, last, you got any good keeping spinach puree

[32:43] tricks, old school? I just, yeah, I pure it in a blender to keep it really, really cold with ice. Yeah. so I just squeeze it. like if I do a spinach puree. Just blanch it. instantly shock it, squeeze the hell out of the water, add the cook shallots, puree it, just barely in a

[32:58] vitamix and then put it instantly on ice. Yeah, just keeping it cold. I think the key, for me, the key is squeezing. Get the water out. Yeah. Like, I'm talking like, do you do the towel thing? You got it, because it's turned to water and run it, yeah. Yeah, for those of you who don't know what we're talking about. You put it in the towel and then you twist the towel and twist it and twist it. Twist it, twist it. Yeah, yeah. And it just, you know, all that liquid comes out. Yeah, so I don't know. Maybe, like, do you get a lot of, uh, if she squeeze the hell out of it, you're still getting a lot of

[33:27] cinereas, a lot of liquid coming out of it? Uh, no, it's pretty, sometimes you can squeeze it so hard at least for the plunder. you have to add a little bit of water. So, but you find that your chef's recipe is working for you or not working for

[33:39] you? You just want to know the mechanism. Yeah, I mean, I just kind of wanted to prove him right or prove him wrong. I mean, the best way to prove the best way to prove something right or something wrong is offline, at home, make it a different way. Keep it for however long and bring it in and be like, hey, chef, I made this. What do you think? And then see what they see what they say. I mean, the worst way to do it is to change the way it's done on the line. That's the absolute worst thing you can do. Go time and you're like, oh, right. Yeah, but like, you know, any, I'm just going to go ahead and say, say, I'm going to say this and see Elias what you think, is that if you do something on your own time with your own product and it's good and you bring it in and your chef doesn't have,

[34:24] doesn't won't respect that and take a look at it, maybe you should be working for a different chef.

[34:28] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's got to be a creative conglomerate. Yeah, it was like fun. I love when anybody comes in. I mean, I make, what, £7000 of sausage a day, and I still listen to people salami about the technique that I use.

[34:40] If they have an idea of how to make it more uniform, let's talk. Right. Especially if someone proves it, like, you know, I'll take any dogma that I'm running down for years,

[34:47] you show me that there's a better way. I will adopt it immediately. Absolutely. And I think that's a sign of, I mean, in any field. That's a sign of intelligence. You know what I mean? I think it's, you know, it becomes problematic when if someone goes so hard on dogma, especially like in print and on TV,

[35:06] it becomes hard for them to change, but that's when you, you could tell if someone's a real, like, you know, if they're really hardcore about what they do and not just about being who they

[35:16] are. You know what I mean? then they'll they'll change. So anyway, do some experiments and shoot us back and say, you know, tell us what you find out. Dave, you got any spinach freaks on the chat room? Let me check and get back to you. Speaking of, like, tips and tricks, I, I, we had a walnut question in a couple of weeks ago about how to get easily get the skin, the tannic skin off of a

[35:39] walnut. Now you can buy non-tannic walnuts. I don't know where they get. Harold McGee gets good ones. I haven't spoken to him yet. Whether he has any tips, but I said I was going to talk to a guy whose grandpa is a walnut farmer, but it turns out he doesn't grow walnuts. He only grows almonds or almonds, as he calls them. Amons. Amons. And it's unfortunate because he would have had this guy, like, you know, 60 years ago was in an airplane accident. He was flying. He lost his leg and one eye. Yeah, he's like still like an almond farmer. So I figured if anyone knew how to do it, but, you know, it's easy to get this, not easy. It's a pain in the butt, but it's technically easy to get the skins off of an almond,

[36:15] but walnuts. I don't know. Can you blanch a walnut? Yeah, blanch them. do the towel rub? Yeah, blanch them, then re-roast them, and then chop them, and then do the sea, and try to get the skim through the, of course, sea, is the way I do it, and it's still not like a perfectly... and you can't get the I don't forget whether this person wanted whole halves. I mean, that's the good thing about an almond is you can get the skin off of it and still have it be in beautiful

[36:38] shade. You know what I mean? But the good thing about nuts that I think people, as long as you don't soak the bejesus out of them,

[36:45] such that you're actually leeching a bunch of flavor out of them, they can take a good number of like, get it wet, get it dry, get it wet, get it dry. I mean, they're pretty, you know what I mean? Especially, you just trade that off with a wallet. Like, if you hate how a tannic arm, you know, or a walnut does your tongue and makes it all fucked up. Blanch it for a second, done roasted, at least you'll get all that bitters out of the tanner. Right, because all that stuff is A on the outside and B water soluble. That's a good tip right there. Look at that. For a sausage maker, I know weigh around a knot. Just do good. Just do it. Well, and so do you do that today? Do you do the walut and sausage thing? I do it in pate. like once or twice a year. Yeah, like I'll make a walnut pate, for sure, when the cello and whatnot. I think they're delicious, especially with game birds. When you serve a pate. Like, what do you think about, remember, like, man, 5 or 6 years ago, or maybe even longer now, 10 years ago,

[37:32] like, the big thing, not on pate, was go to foie gras straight, right? The big chunk. Now, I have to say, are you a hot or cold? If you could choose only one, would you choose hot or cold? foie gras? Yeah. That's a tough one, huh? I'm gonna go cold because I can have it in more places. 99 out of 100 chefs, do that, but I just love hot so much. Yeah. anyway, what about you, Stas? Cold, Samantha? Like cold, too. 99 out of 100. I'm like, I actually really like the old school, like, just quick seer, like,

[38:01] lightly warm in the middle, like, maybe some, like, you know, maybe some, you know. Yeah, crunchy salt, or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, anyway. So, you want to take cook, Rick? One second. So, like, one thing that makes me upset. It's like when you don't serve the, when you don't serve it with any form of, like no no acidic accompaniment and no crunchy starch. I need an acidic accompaniment, and I need a crunchy starch. pate as well. Like, I want give me some sort of bread. Yeah. Yeah. Especially like too. But like, have you seen, have you noticed this where, like, someone will give you a big plate of, of, like, either pate or something? And then nothing, nothing to break up the unctuousness. Absolutely, no, yeah. You got to have crunchy bread or good bread or baguette for a pate. An old school French chef. shall remain nameless. It was not Alan Sayak. Uh, he, I once, he, they used to do a country pate at the French Culinary Institute. I like country pate is like the next guy, and they would put the little cornichon, right? Which I kind of like corny shell. going to set to go say, I'm going to say, I kind of like corny shell. They're not my favorite pickle. I mean, the texture is bad, right? Cornish on. The texture is bad. They're a good crunch, but there's better crunches out there. Much better crunches. I mean, the cucumber didn't want to be murdered at that age. It wanted to grow bigger. Yeah, want to be more of a pickle. It's like, it's like the baby corn is garbage. I mean, like, I like... Yeah, I like the way they look kind of like theoretic, but it's garbage. a garbage product. It's a garbage product. Yeah, it's garbage product. Uh, so the, what do you think, stars? You hate that stuff, right? Hey, baby corn. So, Samantha? agree. Dave? Yeah, not a fan. Yeah, okay. Stop putting those things in cans. First of all, like, what do they where do they get? Maybe like... Maybe a really good baby corn is delicious, but I've never had that. I ripped one right off of a stalk once, and I was like, this is garbage. I boiled it. I was like, anyway, but so that's not the point. That's not the point. So I was like, hey, chef, you know what would be good? And he starts with bread because, come on, he's old school French guy. I was like, I really like, like, a coarse gray mustard with my country pate. He's like, American. And walked away. That's what he said. I was like what? Mustard's good. You just gotta, you always have to remember, you just got to make people happy. If they wanted freaking ketchup on it, and that's the way that they enjoyed my pate, more to you. I'm not going to do it. I'm going to touch the stuff. But I mean, like, you know, like, don't you think that, don't you think that a coarse grained mustard is a better acidic slash pungent accompaniment to a country pate than a freaking corny show, no matter how

[40:33] furnish it is? Absolutely. A whole grain mustard on every charcuterie board that I sell at every one of my places, no matter what. Thank you. It's perfect. It goes with everything. It's bright. It tastes good. All right, we'll take a break. We'll come back with more live Cairo, more cooking issues.

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[42:02] Trooper, premium British Beer, handcrafted by Robinson's Brewery in Cheshire, England, and created by Iron Maiden. That's what we're going to be having with our lunch date. I mean, like, Nastasi, where did this beer come from? I have no idea. He just brought it. It was like, this is your tape. All right, so I'll give you some props if you can tell me why Iron Maiden is a particularly for someone like me, an important metal band. Bass? Why? I don't know. Man played with 3 fingers. He only had 3 things? No, he played with, in other words, like, the typical bass player plays with 2 fingers, like,

[42:35] thumb, thumb. He was like, what's

[42:39] wrong with you? You know what I mean? What are you doing all day not knowing that? What are you doing? Fail. Dave, what do you think about it? As a music guy. What are your thoughts? You ever listen to that stuff? They're great, yeah. Do you, like, you know, like those the original t-shirts with, what's his name? Eddie, right? Like, they're like fantastically expensive now. Yeah, I'm not surprised. There's like a weird vintage rock tea market. I know. It's crazy. You know, those things were unconscionably expensive at the time they were new. They should go way down in value. That should be the that should be the purchase that you get slapped for later and you're like, I can't believe I spent $40 on that concert

[43:13] t-shirt. now you're sitting pretty. Now you're sitting pretty. It's like old programs. It's like I have the original 77 Star Wars program and apparently that's a worth something. Anyways. spend 40 bucks for that program? No, I spent like, I think it might have came with the ticket. There you go. You know what I mean? Like, you know, I was a little young. I don't know. Back then, your parents just paid for crap and you didn't know, you know what I mean? So Dave, you want me to do this business before we get back into real stuff? Yes, please. This is what we call people the mid-roll ad, even though it's coming at the end of this show. It's this is the midroll ad. I have no control over that, but you do. Ooh, are we getting bad? getting back into the states. Testy day. Modernist pantry was created by food lovers and cooking issues fans just like you. Janie, Chris, and the modernist pantry family share your passion for experimentation and have everything you need to make culinary magic happen in your own kitchen.

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[44:43] Great, nailed it again. Nailed it. nailed it. All right, let's do it. we got any more callers? Let's do it. We're on the air. Hey, Dave, how was it going? Jason from Atlanta. How you doing? How's Atlanta? I'm doing well. I hear it's like 8000000 degrees down there. Yeah. You like coming by your hotland name properly now? Yeah, people actually live in Atlanta that actually call it Hot Atlanta. just the outsiders. Well, I am, in fact, an outsider. Do you not listen to Ludacris if you're actually from Atlanta or do you do that? Oh, there you go. Okay. All right. All right. So what's up? about the question about fish sauce. So I'm looking to make my own fish sauce. Um, and I was wondering if there's a reason why traditionally, uh, orderly fish are

[45:23] used anchovies and sardines and would it still work, uh, with pretty much any other kind of fish, maybe even

[45:29] lake fish, perch, trout, um, anything, is there a limitation as to what fish you should and shouldn't use?

[45:38] Okay, so I'm going to weigh in for a 2nd. I'm sure Elias has some stuff to say about this, you know, with the Greekness will come in at a certain

[45:45] point. So, uh, here's the thing. Like, typically fish sauce is made with, like, fish that you gather kind of in abundance and you want cooking as a whole, kind of a fish, and so, like, you gather lots of these oily fish, like, you get lots of mackerel. You get lots of sardines. You get lots of anchovies. And so I think that's like one of the reasons, but they're classic ones that are made with

[46:08] squid and that's not oily made with the guts. You get ones that are made. I mean, typically, you know, most traditional recipes are built around a less waste

[46:18] phenomenon. And so like anything that you would like stake out or cook, you wouldn't turn into a fish sauce. Um, you know, and and there are some fish sauces, like the famous, uh, what, Garum, which is the Roman one changed a lot, depending on what grade you were buying and what era of the Roman Empire you're dealing

[46:36] with. But like one of the high grades at a certain time was all guts. So it's just, you know, mackerel guts. Do you got any experience making, do you ever make fish sauce? I've never made fish sauce. You should make it. stuff's delicious. Totally. Delicious. Yeah, I love it, so I should make it. I can't believe I've made it. Yeah. So the bottom line is, yes, it should work with pretty much any fish. Yes, I would say it would work with a lot of fish. There are some people who believe, and I've never done the test that the smaller fish have a good gut to meat

[47:05] ratio and that it's the it's the guts that are like kickstarting all of that like stuff that's going on. I've heard people say that. Do I have any experience? I don't. You know? Okay. And any any idea of using, um, I guess more specifically to the

[47:24] sheri, uh, squid-based fish sauce, using frozen squid, uh, would be a problem. I think it should not be a problem, but most of the, most of the squid that I buy that's frozen is cleaned

[47:37] already. Do you have a source of... Yeah. I mean, like, the best thing to do is if you get squid is, like, clean them, scrape all the cleaning stuff into the bucket to make your fish

[47:48] sauce, and then, you know, do your do your whatever you're doing with it. Are you a fan, Elias, of turning the squid inside out before you stuff it, where you take the, you take the mantle and you flip it inside out so that when it cooks, it like squeezes into the

[48:01] stuffing. I've never done that. I stuff a lot of squid. I always pipe it into the squid. Right. Well, they sold French guy. Uh, he used to, like, before he, he would do that, but before he would do it, he would turn it inside out and he'd say he would get a tighter... Yeah. Like I went to try that. Yeah, give a shit. let me know It's a Chef Didier. We used to add, I forget his last name. French guy. Anyway, yeah, but listen, let us know what's going on. I'll give the fish also try using some fish I can catch. And by the way, I'm with you on the foie gras, hot all the way. There you go. Someone someone's got to agree with me at some point. All right, thanks. Let's know how the fish sauce goes. How do you start the fermentation on a fish sauce? It's freaking salt. Just salt. Just leave it in there. No mother, nothing. just ferments on its own. Naturally, it gets crazy. I mean, that's I mean, look, we started making it once for the same thing I was talking about. We were in Italy. We were doing the Roman thing. And we just hacked them up and then like put salt in. Uh, and now, uh, but I've never like made it through from beginning to end, but there's a bunch of people now who have done it and made some really high kind of

[49:04] grade, uh, high grade fish sauce. I love fish sauce. You know what I mean? fish sauces, and I'm going to be using a lot more of it now because the kids are pescatarian now. See how long this lasts, right? Take the bird. Maybe they'll want some bird. I'm going to eat the whole bird. But kids aren't, you know what? Here's the thing. Like, I feel that like, if you make that choice, I'm like, hey, you made that choice. That's your choice. I'm a vegetarian for a while for a skateboard. My skateboard broke in Salt Lake and I didn't have any money. And my bud, I ate so much meat being Greek and they're like, if you go a week without eating

[49:35] meat will buy a skateboard. And so I like took the bet and then I got a girlfriend who was vegetarian in that week and I was vegetarian for like 3 months. Wow. It's pretty impressive. Wow. So, and then as soon as that relationship ended, back to the

[49:49] meat, was it part of the, was that part of the reason the relationship ended or no? No, she just didn't like me anymore. Wow. Well, because you were spending too much time skateboarding. Exactly. So young. So what's that dish? What's that Greek dish? They spit roast lamb intestines where you wrap all the intestines around the spit, and then you like cook it like a big party food. What that called again? Yeah, I don't know what it's called, but yeah, it's delicious. Absolutely ever make that stuff? Yeah, well, I make it with goat. Yeah, where we restuff the, we take out the goat carcass, we debone it, then we

[50:17] rest, we chop up the intestines with the liver, the heart, and the kidney, quickly saute, season that, and then put it inside of the wrapped goat, and then fire, roast the whole thing. That's delicious. Oh, here's a question for a couple questions. One, I noticed in your book, I noticed Nastasia notices. I think I bookmarked the page. Your porchetta is not what we would call a porchetta. It's more of like a whole... That's what I call a porchetta. It looked good. You see that stuff? It's like, so, you know, I'm obsessed with this Colombian dish, but instead of a meat stuffing, it's meat and rice

[50:46] stuffing. Yeah, that's so good. Yeah. Crispy, you know, crispy pork skin plus anything, basically. Yeah, and that's the big challenge about a porchetta is like anybody could stuff a pork, but getting the skin perfectly crisped up and there's a 1000000 tricks to that.

[51:00] Oh, are you, are you, what are you a believer? you a believer? Do you baking soda it? Do you prick it? I prick it and then blanch it. So you do the branch. and then throw hot water over it. Ladle blanch. Pour over. Not a dip. Pour over. Pour over. If I had a pot big enough I would love to dip it. But nothing in the water. Nothing in the water. And then I salt the shit out of it and then leave it overnight in salt and then start with a low temperature. And then when it gets to 90 degrees, I crank my oven all the way up until it's just about on

[51:25] fire, and then that turns into it. It's a little to run it. And it does the pops up and it gets all the holes and all the grease cooks the skin and it's crunchy and then you can just slice it and

[51:34] it's I love it. Yeah. Hey Dave, we got to go before we do, chat room is demanding an update on the spins all that you promised. We have this. We have the update. Nastasia is gonna send it out. Uh, you know, we, uh, I'm sending, uh, we have the picture of the 1st off tooling. This is the centerfuge that I'm working on. So we have the a video of it of the 1st off tooling one running, the one that we took to Scotland, and we're going to send that out, and then we'll probably send out a more substantive one next week, and then after I get back from

[52:06] China, we will send out another one. But, you know, that's probably the ones we're going to definitely send out before the ship date happens. All right, so we didn't get to, uh, we had a question on, uh, adding silver powder to a cocktail. I don't think it's necessarily a good idea. Do you know that, you ever, you know, collodial silver, you guys heard of collodial silver? So people take collodial silver, and this is not the same thing, but

[52:30] they some people think it has a health thing, but if you drink too much of it, you turn blue permanently. Like the silver gets into your skin. Generally not a good look. Bruised. Uh, you know, you look like, you remember in Appalachia there where these, uh, there was this group of people that, uh, didn't ha,

[52:47] that like turned, they were blue naturally, like they had some sort of like genetic thing. So you look, you end up looking kind of like that, which is kind of kind of messed up. Yeah. All right, Wes, next week I'll talk to you about deep fryers and what deep fryer I use and how to choose a deep fryer and all that good

[53:02] stuff. You know, choose a deep fryer wisely. Someday, maybe I should invent, someone wanted me to invent, like, work on a new oven after this bins all, but I think like a really good, I not going to do this for, but a really good deep fryer that, like a regular person could use in your house. Because like real deep fryer is like so much better

[53:21] than, than the one you get in your house. tried anyone. Yeah. Make like the home version of a broaster, like in the west coast, we have those like deep fried chicken places where it's a pressure deep fryer and you, you know, you cook the hood and throw the chicken in. Yeah, I met the guy. I think did he die? He's still alive. Anyway, speaking of diet, the guy who invented G.I. Joe died, we could talk more about that later. Uh, anything else next week, we'll talk about next week. Oh, next week we have Richard Blaze coming on. So any sort of Richard Blaze questions you have, you can dial in. Thanks for coming. Thanks, guys. Thanks so much for showing up I had a good time. Cooking issues.

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